#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-23
<tseng> ogra: did we hear anything about main?
<ogra> tseng, yep, pitti has to do a security review first :-/
<tseng> that will be a big job :(
<ogra> yep
<tseng> :(
<tseng> ogra:
<tseng> < BenM> tseng, be careful about amd64 boxes
<tseng> < BenM> we always install to prefix/lib
<tseng> < BenM> not libdir
<ogra> oh
<ogra> ok
<tseng> that means more to you than me, I imagine
<ogra> it should be ok, /usr/lib64 is a symlink to /usr/lib
<tseng> ogra: so if i export MAKEOPTS=j1 in mono rules
<tseng> ogra: can you think of why it might not be setting it for the build?
<ogra> why j1 ?
<tseng> because it fails with > j1 in a certain case
<tseng> internal gc and __thread on x86
<tseng> suse uses __thread on all archs
<tseng> we could too
<tseng> since pthread is going away
<ogra> yep
<tseng> in breezy+1
* goofrider is away: I'm busy
* goofrider is back (gone 00:41:20)
<ivoks> anyone?
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: hi
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> i asked this ubuntu-devel but got no answer so im going to repeat it here...
<Unfrgiven> i have an interesting problem... im running "dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot" and for some reason it is generating a "<package_name>-<version>.tar.gz.cdbs-config_list". whats that all about? how do I stop it generating the file? I'm using cdbs-0.4.28-1ubuntu1
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> debian/rules?
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: what about it?
<ivoks> what is the name of directory in which you are doing dpkg-buildpackage?
<Unfrgiven> /home/ankur/devel/fast-user-switch-applet/fast-user-switch-applet-0.2.2
<ivoks> - - - -
<Unfrgiven> ?
<doko> ivoks: xalan looks better. please tighten the xerces build-dep to the version used in the transition, change pkglibdir in debian/rules (or you'll get an empty archive) and remove the config.* files in the diff (diff only is enough)
<ivoks> IRC, source dir should be package-version
<ivoks> doko one question
<Unfrgiven> well the others who reviewed it were fine by this... i think it uses the last - to delimit the version
<ivoks> doko xdb doesn't egzist anymore... it is replaced by XBase library
<Unfrgiven> take gnome-applets and gnome-applets-data for example
<ivoks> doko http://linux.techass.com/projects/xdb
<ivoks> Unfrgiven then i don't know...
<Unfrgiven> :( bummer
<doko> ivoks: hmm, the source still exists ...
<doko> ivoks: the changes to the config files are in the xclass diff as well
<ivoks> doko yes it does, but i tought.. maybe it's time to replace it?
<ivoks> doko last revision is from 2004, and maintainer said he should covert standards-version from 3.5.8.0 to 3.6.1
<ivoks> doko and the package is unbuildable :)
<ivoks> doko make that 2003, not 2004 :)
<doko> ivoks: propose it for removal to dholbach or ogra
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> doko could you help me with something? i know where is problem, and i know how to fix it, I just need your opinion...
<ivoks> doko i have libxalan and libxalan-dev. libxalan contains file libxalanMsg.so.18
<ivoks> doko should libxalan-dev also contain this file? if I leave it as is, libxalan-dev will create danglink link on libxalanMsg.so.18
<ivoks> doko but, anyway, one can't install libxalan-dev wihout libxalan... so this is ok?
<ivoks> imho, libxalan-dev shouldn't contain any library
<ivoks> only includes
<doko> ivoks: that's due to the unchanged pkglibdir variable
<ivoks> in xalan?
<ivoks> there is no such variable
<ivoks> there is pkglib
<ivoks> pkglib=libxalan$(libpkgver)c2
<ivoks> and there is:
<ivoks> pkglib-dev=libxalan$(libpkgver)-dev
<ivoks> and those config.sub etc in xclass are because of patch inside debian/patches
<ivoks> whole xclass is strange
<dholbach> hellas
<doko> ivoks: not in the diff, ahh you changed it
<ivoks> doko yes, but i need to change debdiff too on bugzilla
<doko> ivoks: it's already changed
<ivoks> ok
<Nafallo> morning all!
<doko> ivoks: and tighten the xalan build dependency please
<ivoks>  libxerces25-dev (>= 2.5.0-4)
<ivoks> ah... libxalan-dev
<ivoks> Nafallo hi
<ivoks> dholbach xdb got new upstream release
<ivoks> dholbach but they changed name to xbase
<ivoks> dholbach xdb in debian didn't change since begining of 2003.
<ivoks> dholbach should i take new upstream source and debianize it or use the old one? is major change, from xdb1.8 to xbase2.0
<ivoks> bbl
<ivoks> dholbach mail me for this issue, if you can (ivoksATgrad.hr)
<\sh> morning....*grmpf*
<\sh> 2 free days..2 days in da office :(
<siretart> hi
<siretart> is anyone using svn-buildpackage for ubuntu adaptions?
* dholbach doesnt
<dholbach> hi siretart
<siretart> hi dholbach
<siretart> I was thinking of using it for tracking changes in packages..
<Burgundavia> siretart, I read in the CC meeting log that you are interested in MOTUGames stuff
<siretart> Burgundavia: yes, I started in bringing to games into debian :)
<Burgundavia> siretart, another person you should contact is jdodson on the forums
<Burgundavia> he and I chatted at LinuxFestNorthwest about a better gaming experience
<dholbach> there's no MOTUGames page yet :-)
<dholbach> go for it! :-)
<Burgundavia> I didn't create one becuase my package output has been 1
<tseng> Burgundavia: see the blam fix?
<siretart> Burgundavia: well, the problem is, that I have a webforumphobia :) - I'd really prefer mailinglists and irc channels. But, could you give me a link for it?
<tseng> Burgundavia: its in gecko not blam actually
<dholbach> Burgundavia: if you have a page where you list all your goals, it will hopefully attract people who are interested
<dholbach> everybody loves games
<dholbach> ... nearly ...
<dholbach> ;-)
* Nafallo is the black sheep he believes ;-)
<Burgundavia> siretart, if you post onto -devel, it is mirrored onto the forums
* Burgundavia forgot about this when he posted his "forums users are on crack piece" recently
<Burgundavia> dholbach, I don;t play games, I just want to make it easier for others to play them
<siretart> Burgundavia: you mean Corey Burger? ;)
<Burgundavia> siretart, yep
<dholbach> Burgundavia: that's fine as well
<Burgundavia> tseng, I hate to tell you this, but -ubuntu3 didn't fix it
<tseng> huh what?
<tseng> I knew that yesterday when i saw your problem..?
<tseng> and I just said to you, did you see the fix we found
<Burgundavia> oh, yes
<tseng> oh well
<tseng> ill fix it
<Burgundavia> thought that had already been committed
* Burgundavia is tired
<tseng> im not that fast :)
* Burgundavia has great faith in tseng
<tseng> gotta sync up with debian
<Burgundavia> siretart, I will email jdodson and get a wiki page up tomorrow
<dholbach> ROCK!
<Nafallo> Yay for serpentine! :-)
* Nafallo burns his first AudioCD since some years ;-).
<ogra> Nafallo, does it work ok for you ?
<Nafallo> ogra: seems so.
<dholbach> hey ogra
<ogra> hi
<tseng> hi dholbach
<Nafallo> ogra: you've had errors?
<ogra> Nafallo, great to hear... we'll have to decide if we ship gnomebaker or sepentine for breezy
<ogra> Nafallo, seb128 said he had some
<siretart> ROCK
<Nafallo> ogra: hmm, it's not finished burning yet so... ;-)
<ogra> lets wait then
<tseng> i wonder if i could get my own branch on pkg-mono svn
<siretart> gotta go to grandma, bye!
<herve> mor... noon!
<Nafallo> that was irritating.
<Nafallo> s/was/is/
<Nafallo> my wlandriver hates me.
<herve> choose freedom, choose ipw2200 :-)
<tseng> thats not exactly "free" by all definitions
<herve> argh
<ogra> argh, tseng ?
<Lathiat> its close enough
<herve> Intel home made license?
<Lathiat> only problem si the firmware
<tseng> the firmware is not freely distributable
<ogra> tseng, did you recognize that blam depends on libstdc++ ?
<tseng> i guess we are just ignoring that
<herve> ok, my mistake then
<dholbach> heya herve
<tseng> ogra: wha!?
<Nafallo> rt2500 :-)
* herve gives the high five to dholbach 
<Nafallo> doesn't need firmware.
<ogra> tseng, its in the build depends
<tseng> buh
<Lathiat> the rt2500 driver suxbad
<ogra> tseng, which means we have to wait until after cXX transition with it
<tseng> eh the fix is in gecko
<Nafallo> Lathiat: it's not that bad. have everything I wish for, and gives a little thrills when it decides to hate the ap and disconnects ;-).
<tseng> blam can sit for awhile
<ogra> tseng, it still crashes here...
<tseng> well thats a different problem
<Lathiat> you can distirbute the firmware
<Nafallo> ogra: you got my last lines?
<ogra> tseng, and has no cil-common bindings
<Lathiat> just only under a license as restrictive as theres, which basically says you cant reverse engineer etc
<tseng> ogra: yes
<tseng> but it can wait
<ogra> ok
<tseng> or can I do it today?
<Nafallo> ogra: i.e. works fine, but needs to have the icon displayed in the program and not just the menu ;-).
<tseng> youll have to tell me what your crasher is, i dont have one with fixed gecko
<ogra> tseng, sure, but as soon as the library names change it wont work anymore
<tseng> buh
<tseng> ok
<ogra> my crasher is a segfault... coming along with a X error message
<tseng> wow
<tseng> gdk-x11-2.0?
<ogra> hmm
<tseng> i have a fix for that one
<tseng> oh yeah thats not yours either
<ogra> the segfault sadly hsa no further information...
<ogra> has even
<ogra> Nafallo, serpentine ?
<Nafallo> ogra: yep :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, the icon is a one line fix.... e have plenty of time for it ;)
<ogra> we even
<Nafallo> ogra: rock on!! :-)
<ajmitch_> hi all
<tseng> hi
<Nafallo> hi ajmitch_ :-)
<ajmitch_> what have I missed today? :)
* Nafallo uploads his rabbit
<ogra> Nafallo, hope you didnt forget to lintian check it before ?
<Nafallo> ogra: hehe, gThumb generated. I thought that was a trusted application? ;-)
<tseng> argh libgdiplus has an included cairo
<ogra> yeah, it is :)
<tseng> it ftbfs here
<tseng> it wants to build with neither font backend, so some #defines are ifdef'd out
<tseng> and come up missing in the build
<Nafallo> ogra: :-)
<Nafallo> damn google
<Nafallo> three pages of hits on my name and they can't find my homepage :-P
<dholbach> ajmitch_: just received a mail from a guy from my university with a mail adress from student.otago.ac.nz - does that mean anything to you? :-)
<ajmitch_> dholbach: sure, it means he's been a student at my uni :)
<dholbach> haaahahahah!
<dholbach> great!
<dholbach> the world is so incredibly small
<ajmitch_> yeah :)
<ajmitch_> just finishing off a hoary install in the next room on the flatmate's computer ;)
* herve reading three times the Python multiple inheritance rule and punching himself with the documentation
<ajmitch_> night all
<ogra> night ajmitch_
<doko> ajmitch_: ping
<ajmitch_> doko: yes..?
* ajmitch_ is just about gone :)
<doko> iff all other clanlib libs depend on libclanlib2, then it's enough to rename that one only
<ivoks> doko thanks for the tip
<siretart> re
<siretart> I'm currently resyncing keychain with debian. There exists a bugzilla report #9416. Should I mention it in the changelog?
<siretart> even put a "closes: #9416" line in it?
<siretart> and how to request to drop any ubuntu changes in favor of a new debian packages, which incorporates all changes by 'us' (ubuntu, or in this case by me)?
* darkaudit is having a fluxbox update problem... new Sid pkg is 0.9.12, but depends on libfontconfig1 (>= 2.3.0). Hoary has 2.2.3-4ubuntu7. Is there anything I can do here, or am I stuck until Breezy is ready?
<siretart> darkaudit: you would have to wait for breezy
<herve> hey ivoks, how's your studying? :-)
<ivoks> herve :)
<ivoks> i have whole night :)
<dholbach> siretart: just tell elmo to sync and drop your changes - there should be a bugreport on bugzilla in this case (MoM)
<ogra> siretart, tell elmo to sync it and tellhim he can override...
<herve> ivoks, tsss
<tseng> elmo needs an motu to approve syncs
<ivoks> dholbach ogra what should I do with xdb? there is new upstrem version with rename of program
<siretart> dholbach: even for universe packages?
<ogra> ivoks, the old package needs to get removed from the seeds
<dholbach> tseng: no, but in case there are merge-o-matic complaints in bugzilla, he just doesnt override like that
<tseng> oh
<dholbach> siretart: yes
<ogra> ivoks, the new one must go in
<ogra> ivoks, talk to Kamion about it tomorrow ....
<dholbach> ivoks: are there reasons which keep us from using the old name?
<darkaudit> siretart: I posted the issue on Dopey's blog... hopefully he or some other kind soul can package a version that will work with Hoary
<ivoks> heh
<siretart> ogra: will he bite me if I tell him on irc, or does he prefer plain email?
<dholbach> siretart: he wont
<ogra> dholbach, the ackage doesnt exist anymore in debian
<siretart> :)
<ogra> package even
<ivoks> dholbach well... they said namechange is because other company conntacted them for using copyrhigtet name
<dholbach> oh ok
<ivoks> copyrighted name
<dholbach> ogra: it does: http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?version=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=xdb&searchon=sourcenames
<dholbach> ivoks: then we should package the renamed, funky new version :-)
<ivoks> xdb exist in debian
<ivoks> but hasn't been updated since 2003.
<ogra> dholbach, it will disappear, so we cant sync breezy+1 then
<ivoks> ok, ill do new one
<dholbach> ogra: i don't care about the old one, if ivoks does the new one :-))
<ogra> yep
<tseng> yay inotify seems to actually be workign now
<dholbach> ivoks: GO! GO! GO! :-)
<ivoks> just one question
<tseng> beagle and new gamin
<ivoks> dholbach :)
<ivoks> it shoud have Replaces: xdb
<ivoks> and Provides: xdb ?
<dholbach> ivoks: hrmhrmhrm, not really sure
<dholbach> ivoks: you should test it for maximum upgrading fun experience
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> and you should see diff of xclass source
<ivoks> it has config.cache, config.sub, etc in it...
<ivoks> i have to fix that too... :(
<dholbach> ivoks: that should work automagically
<ivoks> dholbach no
<ivoks> dholbach problem is that debian guy did a patch that creates that files :)
<dholbach> config.{cache,sub} are copied in by most of the packages in the clean target
<dholbach> they're not created, but updated
<dholbach> from /usr/share/misc/config.*
<ivoks> no
<dholbach> you're positively sure he copied them manually?
<ivoks> nope :)
<dholbach> ok :-)
<ivoks> wait...
<dholbach> then read debian/rules and check :-)
<ivoks> in debian/patches
<ivoks> he has patch with config.*
<dholbach> oh ok
<ivoks> you don't have config.cache in /usr/share :)
<ivoks> that's cache :))
<dholbach> usr/share/misc
<ivoks> there isn't config.cache
<ivoks> there is .sub
<ivoks> and .guess
<ivoks> but .cache can't be there
<dholbach> maybe you check the changelog and try to determine why he did that patch
<ivoks> i think he did a mistake, but i'll check
<ivoks> couse he patches Makefile etc
<dholbach> that can be VERY intentional
<dholbach> ogra: what did you mean by seeding stuff and kamion?
<dholbach> * new version for config.sub to make it compile on arm
<ogra> dholbach, for xdb
<dholbach> ogra: it's in universe
<ogra> dholbach, and ?
<dholbach> what would we change where?
<dholbach> ivoks: and btw the maintainer is mvo - you can just ask him, if he's around
<ogra> dunno, thats why i ask Kamion, since he is responsible for that
<dholbach> ogra: for what in the xdb case - i didnt get it
<ogra> dholbach, for letting the old package dissapear from universe...
<ogra> and introducing the new one
<dholbach> ogra: elmo will remove and blacklist it
<ivoks> dholbach no config mentioned in changelog :) ok, i'll investigate
* dholbach strokes the MorgueCandidates page
<dholbach> ivoks: * new version for config.sub to make it compile on arm
<ivoks> where did you find that?
<dholbach> ivoks: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xdb/xdb_1.2.0-5/changelog
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> dholbach i'm talking about xclass :)
<dholbach> hrmbl
<dholbach> ok, let me have look
<dholbach> you said: <ivoks> it shoud have Replaces: xdb
<ivoks> <ivoks> and you should see diff of xclass source
<ivoks> <ivoks> it has config.cache, config.sub, etc in it...
<dholbach> that's why :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> in rules; for clean:
<ivoks> cp -f /usr/share/misc/config.sub config.sub
<dholbach> there you go
<dholbach> :-)
<ivoks> uh..
<ivoks> and doko told me to remove that configs from diff
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> apart from that: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=166345
<siretart> say, is breezy still resyncing new debian packages from sid on a regular basis?
<dholbach> that's where the patch got added
<dholbach> siretart: yes
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> ivoks: but funnily enough it says in the bug reports, that the patch was submitted upstream :-)
<siretart> I got a new version of londonlaw uploaded to debian, this one should also be buildable on ubuntu.
<dholbach> ahhh londonlaw is yours
<ivoks> dholbach so, i should leave it?
<dholbach> ivoks: what else is touched in the patch?
<dholbach> ivoks: only config.* ?
<ivoks> no..
<ivoks> patch has to be aplied
<ivoks> but, i'm not so sure for the config.* part
<siretart> dholbach: yeah. Do you remember Scottland Yard, the Ravensburger board game?
<dholbach> if debian/rules takes care of updating config.* it's pretty "$&()"$)" to have it in the patch as well
<dholbach> siretart: of course - i had it as a child :-)
<ivoks> dholbach i agree
<ivoks> dholbach then, i'll remove them from patch
<dholbach> ivoks: brilliant
<siretart> dholbach: it's the networked python version of it :)
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> it even patches debian/rules
<dholbach> siretart: i saw it because of the funny name :-)
<ivoks> wtf?
* dholbach can't believe it
<ivoks> and changelog and everything :)
<dholbach> ARG
<ivoks> there has to be a catch
<ivoks> he never aplies that patch... it's just there :)
<dholbach> remove it completely
<ivoks> will do
* dholbach shakes head in disbelief
<ivoks> and i will remove those cp of config....
<ivoks> i don't think they are needed
<dholbach> no leave them
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> they update the config.* stuff everytime a new package is built
<dholbach> that's good because new portions are add to the configure stuff (for new architectures, new compilers, ...)
<ivoks> ok
* siretart is trying his first gcc-4 transition: poker3d
<dholbach> ivoks: the shlibs.local looks ODD to me too
<dholbach> nothing on http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html#s-shlibslocal mentions stuff like "libPACKAGE# 0.6.2 xclass (>> 0.6.2-0), xclass (<< 0.6.2-99)"
<ivoks> whole package is odd
<dholbach> absolutely
<dholbach> ok pals, see you later, i'm off for some hours
<ivoks> bye
<dholbach> have fun :-)
<ivoks> yeah :)
<siretart> I knew that I forgot to ask questions last meeting. can anyone answer this one:
<siretart> should also binary c++ packages be renamed even if there are no reverse depends outside the source package?
<ivoks> i guess not...
<ivoks> but I'm not relevant person to answer this q.
<herve> siretart, we are just renaming libs, AFAIK
<herve> I would say just update its dependency to the libraries
<siretart> ok
<siretart> I just finished my work on the package, it's building fine in breezy with gcc-4
<ivoks> lol
<opi> hi
<ivoks> there allready is libxbase
<ivoks> :))
<herve> ivoks, just get to your homework :-)
<herve> hi opi
<ivoks> :)
<opi> what's the procedure of review? :-)
<opi> I post a package and let to bitchslaps? :>
<herve> reviewing what?
<ivoks> hm
<siretart> hm. not quite ready. still some python2.3 deps here
<ivoks> libxbase and libxdb are same libs
<ivoks> just different names
<opi> herve: a package
<opi> herve: OK, I've found a Wiki page
<herve> siretart, poker3d? yes, we transioned it
<herve> opi, new package? transitioned package?
<siretart> herve: oh, you already did the work on it?
<opi> herve: new package or package ,,fixed'' for Ubuntu from Universe
<herve> siretart, the name tells me something, yes :-)
<opi> herve: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview, right?
<siretart> herve: :( - the was nothing on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList - so I claimed it
<herve> opi, new or fixed package, that's what I'm asking you :-)
<opi> herve: both :-)
<herve> siretart, I just meant the python 2.4 transition last winter
<herve> opi, so you fixed a package of yours?
<siretart> herve: ah, great :)
<siretart> then everythings all right again :)
<herve> compiles with g++ 4.0 and packaged for python 2.4
<herve> rock!
<herve> :-)
<opi> herve: nope, I've done my own, but I want to know process for both :-)
<ivoks> herve ?
<ivoks> herve poker3d?
<herve> opi, check MOTUNewPackages and MOTUNewPackagesPolicy
<opi> herve: noticed. thanks.
<herve> opi, for fixed packages, check the transition page, or ask here
<herve> ivoks, I recompiled/packaged it for python2.4
<herve> like vtk :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> u did vtk to?!
<herve> I touched it, at least
<ivoks> :)
<herve> I don't remember if I got the last word
<ivoks> herve i'm confused with something...
<ivoks> there is one library called xdb, libxdb
<siretart> herve: do you know a feasible way of getting a diff from a Xubuntu1 to a X package?
<herve> siretart, debdiff
<siretart> hmm.. why havn't I thought of this :/
<ivoks> and there is one libxbase2.0
<ivoks> the problem is that theese are same librarys
<siretart> of course debdiff. silly me
<herve> ivoks, isn't that package already obsoleted?
<ivoks> herve libxdb?
<herve> ivoks, you checked reverse deps?
<ivoks> libxbase2.0 is newer
<herve> maybe isn't used anymore for a long time
<ivoks> herve how to check that? :)
<ivoks> ah
<ivoks> silly me
<ivoks> oleo depends on it
<ivoks> oleo - GNU spreadsheet program
<herve> sounds like an old text only crap :-)
<herve> ivoks, last update on 2003-05-13
<herve> old crap :-)
<ivoks> yeah :)
<ivoks> so, we should dump that...
<herve> I want to make it a morgue candidate
<herve> but i'm a facist with regard to old packages :-)
<ivoks> ok, how? :)
<ivoks> it should, at least, be repacked
<ivoks> to depend on libxbase, not libxdb
<herve> and oleo need patches for gcc4 :-)
<herve> yes, that's the second step of the transition
<herve> but will oleo compile and run with libxbase...
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> couse libxbase is newer version of libxdb
<herve> yet but api changes,
<herve> ?
<ivoks> there is only one way to be sure :)
<herve> you read my mind :-)
<ivoks> i don't think API changed
<herve> but don't forget your student duty
<ivoks> they did rename couse of copyright...
<ivoks> i said, i have whole night :)
<herve> :-/
<ivoks> don't wory...
<herve> if oleo is the only rdep
<ivoks> it is
<herve> and behaves fine with libxdb
<ivoks> libxbase
<herve> (libxbase) I'll say "let's go renaming!"
<ivoks> ok, i'll do it :)
<ivoks> or try to do ti :)
<herve> after your studying :-)
<ivoks> no, before..
<ivoks> i can't work over day...
<ivoks> full house and it's hot
<ivoks> but..
<ivoks> if I do build-dep, it will download libxdb-dev
<ivoks> how to force it to d/w libxbase2.0-dev?
<ivoks> ok, i know
<herve> build-dep is just handy
<herve> install deps by hand is as good
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> herve no problems yet :)
<ivoks> doh... :(((
<herve> you spoke too fast? :-)
<ivoks> yeah
<ivoks> io-term.h:47: error: array type has incomplete element type
<herve> did I taught you dpatch? :-)
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> this is app problem, not library
<herve> s/taught/teach
<herve> it's a compile error?
<ivoks> yes
<herve> so it's a library issue
<ivoks> extern struct cmd_func cmd_funcs[] ;
<ivoks> yeah, but programs library
<ivoks> this io-term.h is in program's source
<herve> ha it's a system header?
<ivoks> no, app
<ivoks> it's src/io-term.h
<ivoks> called by src/regions.c
<ivoks> #include "io-term.h"
<herve> is... I read isn't
<herve> gcc4 issue, simply?
<ivoks> could be
<ivoks> didn't apply patch, silly me :)
<herve> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=oleo
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> that's for plotter.c
<opi> http://bronikowski.com/uus/ a little help for you, guys ;-)
<ivoks> politics :)
<tseng> im confused
<opi> I'm drunk
<tseng> mono-common5
<tseng> im the #2 package
<tseng> rock on
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> i forgot something to do today
<ivoks> it's election day :)
<ivoks> have to vote :)
<herve> ivoks, tsss
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> and i vote to kick oleo out
<ivoks> it's last development version was released back in 2003
<ivoks> it's a dead project
<ivoks> Last update :  $Id: oleo.html,v 1.5 2002/08/22
<ivoks> make that 2002
<opi> oldie
<mbeattie> oleo is ugly too
<herve> reading the webpage
<opi> time to go for a walk
<opi> see you later, hackers
<ivoks> ok, where to report dead projects?
<herve> debian's QA? :-)
<ivoks> the worst thing is that it depends on libxdb witch doesn't want to compile with gcc4
<herve> or MorgueCandidates in ubuntu
<herve> but since mvo is the maintainer
<herve> and he's around
<herve> you'll probably report to him
<ivoks> he's never around :)
<ivoks> -:- mvo  There was no such nickname
<herve> strange
<herve> leave xdb for now
<herve> go vote
<herve> and do you homework :-p
<ivoks> i will
<ivoks> i'm going :)
<ivoks> see u
<herve> ++
<mbeattie> so... hi?
<herve> ?
<mbeattie> how are you
<herve> well, fine
<mbeattie> glad to hear that
<herve> ogra, no new version of cputmp? :-)
<tseng> ogra: oh, what did you have to do to get monodis properly installed btw?
<ogra> what we talked about before, insall the binary from .lib
<tseng> yes
<tseng> in .install?
<ogra> but i want to look into it again before release
<ogra> yep
<ogra> the libtool wrapper should rather work properly
<tseng> k just letting meebey know
<tseng> we are talking the latest crack
<ogra> tseng, #debian-mono ?
<tseng> was #mono/gimpnet and /msg
<ogra> ah, ok
<tseng> im in a zillion mono channels
<herve> hey jbailey!
<jbailey> Heya herve
<juca> hi all
<herve> ivoks, what are you doing here? :-)
<tritium> hi willis
<willis> tritium, hi
<tritium> willis, thanks for your email regarding gourmet
<ivoks> herve having fun :)
<willis> tritium, hey no problem, thanks for maintaining it
<ivoks> E: Build-dependencies for wftk could not be satisfied.
<ivoks> yupi! :)
<herve> willis, you're the author?
<willis> herve, no
<herve> ivoks, your studies...
<ivoks> herve man, i can't sit whole day on chair and draw roads
<tritium> willis, it's fairly straightforward.  The only thing I'd like to see change would be for upstream to remove the debian/ directory.
<ivoks> herve i need peace for that, and that's only over night, when sister is sleeping, dog's aren't barking etc...
<willis> tritium, i'll mention it to the upstream author, he used to use debian i know, and so it my be a artifact from that, (making his own packages)
<herve> ivoks, I thought you meant sunset. when do you sleep then? :-)
<herve> ho yes, please!
<herve> ask him to remove the debian dir!
<ivoks> herve 2-3 hours/day
<tritium> willis, he's your old prof?
<willis> tritium, he was a teacher at my school
<willis> both of us have left since then
<herve> ivoks, you remind me more and more :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> check out http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs
<ivoks> i'm making progress
<tritium> willis, I see.  Do you have strong sentiments about maintaining gourmet?
<mkde> is there a decent GUI for changing boot services in universe or something? if not, could I suggest one which might be of interest
<ivoks> some mistakes I did yestrday and today in the morning are now clear to me, and, hoppfully, we won't see more of them :)
<willis> tritium, hah no no, i was just looking for a package to give a shot at, and noticed his program on the universe wishlist
<herve> ivoks, I hope these errors are not related to your lack of sleep ;-)
<ivoks> herve maybe they are, who knows...
<tritium> willis, oh, okay.  I thought perhaps you felt strongly about it, particularly since he was from your school.
* herve whistling...
<mkde> anyone?
<ivoks> ok..
<herve> mkde, I was sure there was one in the system > admin menu... but no
<willis> tritium, no, i didn't think it was being maintained at first, but ogra told me you were doing it, which is fine
<ivoks> one lib is missing on CxxLibraryList
<willis> tritium, i'll find something to try my hand at maintaining
<mkde> herve, there was one with gst of 2.8, but not anymore
<herve> mkde, do you think the ubuntu user concerns about changing services?
<tritium> willis, okay, thanks for understanding.
<mkde> yes
<willis> tritium, no problem, and thanks for you work
<herve> mkde, as for me, he may probably more shoot himself in the foot :-)
<ivoks> mkde build a package and suggest it
<mkde> herve, many users ask about how to turn off boot services, and usually get the wrong answer (changing permissions in /etc/init.d etc)
<tritium> willis, :)
<mkde> ivoks, i know of a package, which i was going to suggest for inclusion
<herve> I don't remember seeing this on ubuntu-users
<tritium> mkde, do you have a recommendation that uses update-rc.d ?
<herve> the gnome folks probably know some story behind involving gnome-system-tools
<mkde> yes
<ivoks> well, debian has some packages like that, doesn't it?
<herve> a handful!
<herve> but for administrators
<ivoks> it's bee a while since I had X on Debian :)
<herve> who are the audience of such tools as for me
<mkde> screenie http://mdke.mine.nu/UBM.png
<mkde> one of the italian users wrote it
<mkde> loads of people using it
<herve> they said depending on libstdc++5 is a bad sign?
<mkde> its perl tho
<herve> no chance it gets in main then ;-)
<mkde> not a problem
<tritium> mkde, care to package it up?
<mkde> tritium, its packaged for Ubuntu
<mkde> tritium, the guy who wrote it also packaged it
<herve> debian native package... ?
<tritium> mkde, okay.  Does he want it in universe?
<ivoks> then put a package for a review
<herve> I still don't think users should touch services
<mkde> tritium, he doesn't want it anywhere, but he is happy for it to go in, if you are interested
<mkde> herve, maybe that was the rationale behind removing it from gst
<tritium> mkde, I'd rather not take it on, but if he want to pursue maintainership, he should go for it
<mkde> well he will continue maintaining that package
<tritium> mkde, I mean universe maintainership
<mkde> tritium, no he isn't interested in that. he just wants to help people out
<tritium> mkde, I see
<ivoks> he could give packaging to someone else
<mkde> http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubm.html <-- download http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubmdocs.html <-- explanation of how it works
<mkde> ivoks, he is happy to carry on packaging it i'm sure
<ivoks> and contiunue to develop
<ivoks> then he should continue
<ivoks> and provide new packages for breezy and other newer versions...
<mkde> hmm
<mkde> its you guys' call. The package is there
<ivoks> mkde package need maintainer
<ivoks> needs
<tritium> mkde, ivoks is right.  It's his call, actually, imho
<mkde> i don't get it
<ivoks> he will need to be active or someone from ubuntu or debian will take over
<tritium> his being the developer,
<mkde> he's written the program and packaged it, and is happy to continue doing so. If you want to put it in an archive, that is fine, if not, it'll continue to be downloadable from the internet/forums
<ivoks> you can write program, that's fine... if we like it, we will package it
<ivoks> but if you want to package as well, then you have to be aware of obligations
<mkde> well if you're not happy with the packaging, then package it again
<mkde> its gnu
<tritium> mkde, I don't get why he doesn't want to maintain it himself (officially)
<tseng> whats this middle man silliness
<mkde> i don't know what "officially" entails
<mkde> he does maintain it doesn't he?
<tritium> pursuing maintainership for universe is what I mean
<Lathiat> it looks kinda slick
<tritium> i.e., becoming an MOTU
<Lathiat> but i feel it's interface could be a little less daunting looking
<mkde> Lathiat, you can download and test
<tseng> he doesnt maintain it if he cant upload to ubuntu directly or find a regular sponsor
<mkde> Lathiat, also suggestions are welcome i'm sure
<mkde> tseng, really all I wanted to do was to make you guys aware of the program.
<tseng> then it needs to be on MOTUToReview or UniverseCandidates
<ivoks> mkde thanks, ubuntu needs something like this
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> NewPackage
<Lathiat> i think it could be simplified a bit tho with most of the column lists put into an openable dialog
<ivoks> MOTUNewPackages
<Lathiat> or that list shown advanced
<Lathiat> does thsi person irc?
<tritium> But someone's got to maintain it...
<mkde> Lathiat, email him with any suggestions
<tseng> someone should really fix whatever is keeping out the gnome-system-tools service manager
<tseng> but this looks comparable
<mkde> tseng, wasn't it an intentional ommission?
<ivoks> come on guys... review my wifi-radar :)
<tseng> mkde: i said fix whatever is keeping it out
<tseng> which was intentional for some reason, yes
<mkde> tseng, isn't it a policy ommission?
<tseng> i have no idea
<mkde> i think so
<mkde> like herve said
<tseng> what policy?
<mkde> no need for users to mess with startup services in ubuntu
<mkde> unless they know what they are doing
<tritium> heh, speaking of "radar", I need to get back to work
<herve> I just say it's too dangerous for users for playing with the services
<ivoks> :)
<mkde> herve, i agree in general
<tseng> if they cant do it in cli
<tseng> thats probably true
<mkde> well update-rc.d is quite safe i spose
<ivoks> but we should provide ubuntu users unix way of thinking
<ivoks> they should be aware of danger doing as root
<tritium> mkde, thanks for making us aware of the package
<mkde> yeah my personal view is that the package shouldn't include rcS.d
<ivoks> but noone should stop them killing them self :)
<mkde> but it does
<mkde> tritium, my pleasure :D
<mkde> keep up the great work
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> shouldn't libsmpeg0c2 replace libsmpeg0?
<herve> ivoks, that's the plan, yes
<ivoks> but if i try to install libsdl1.2-mixer-dev
<ivoks> it removes libsmpeg0c2 and installs libsmpeg0 and libsmpeg0-dev
<herve> then it must be part of the transition I gues
<herve> check with doko
<ivoks> doesn't Replaces provide way out?
<herve> I can't let just my intution speak
<herve> Provides you mean?
<ivoks> well... why don't we put Provides too?
<herve> we should
<herve> as I remember the plan of action, though :)
<herve> bug?
<ivoks> no, we don't
<ivoks> we put only Recomends and Conflitcs
<ivoks> well, I'll repackge libsdl1.2-mixer
<ivoks> and notify doko about that...
<ivoks> I allready see Pandora's box opening :)
<herve> I'd say we're inside it ;-)
<herve> we're fixing the universe, it's not an easy duty!
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> this goes to .sig :)
<herve> right, we Conflicts/Replaces, don't Provides
<herve> actually, we were thinking about t-shirts
<ivoks> t-shirts?
<herve> yes, why not :-)
* herve wonders how to interpret this sudden silence
<ivoks> i'm working :)
<herve> ha ok, better reading this :-)
<ivoks> ok, libsdl-mixer done
<ivoks> let's do hocus pocus
<ivoks> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<ivoks>   aptitude libsigc++-1.2-5c102 ubuntu-minimal
<ivoks> nice, very nice... man...
<ivoks> aptitude and ubuntu-minimal need repackaging :)
<ivoks> ok, wftk is going well..
<herve> ubuntu-minimal?
<herve> aren't you touching a main package?
<ivoks> i touched libsdl-mixer1.2
<herve> ha no
<herve> it's the removal of aptitude
<ivoks> doh..
<ivoks> libsdl-mixer1.2 is main
<ivoks> fubar
<herve> :D
<ivoks> libsdl-mixer1.2 depends on libsmpeg, halo?!
<ivoks> main package depends on universe package?
<herve> they should not
<ivoks> Dependencies:
<ivoks> 1.2.5-9 - libc6 (2 2.3.2.ds1-4) libogg0 (2 1.1.0) libsdl1.2debian (4 1.2.7-0) libsmpeg0 (2 0.4.4-7) libvorbis0a (2 1.0.1) libvorbisfile3 (2 1.0.1)
<herve> but I guess you must make a cut somewhere
<ivoks> libsmpeg0 is main too
<ivoks> wtf...
<herve> ok so they follow the logic whatever
<ivoks> oh, they should fix that in main
<ivoks> they created new libsmpeg0c2
<ivoks> and have packages depending on libsmpeg0
<herve> anyway, remember the real fun begins on tuesday
<ivoks> i know :)
<ivoks> i should remeber not to upgrade my breezy :)
<ivoks> ok, i'm done for today
<ivoks> i'll kill eyes for an hour or two and then start drawing :(
<ivoks> bye
<herve> bye
<koke> hi
<herve> hi koke
<herve> good night
<dholbach> hey motaboy
<motaboy> hi dholbach
<ivoks> doko
<dholbach> ivoks: is "doko" a greeting at your place? ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> 'evening
<dholbach> did xbase work out in the end?
<ivoks> xbase exist allready in breezy
<ivoks> xdb is obsolete
<ivoks> oleo rdepends on it
<dholbach> so what did you want to do to it?
<ivoks> and oleo is dead project
<ivoks> dholbach i didn't know xbase is in allready
<dholbach> ah ok that's why
<dholbach> but we learnt something from it... what you can do to packages
<dholbach> ;-)
<ivoks> so i proposed oleo and xdb to mortage
<dholbach> wouldnt oleo work with xbase?
<ivoks> i tried
<ivoks> maybe it would
<ivoks> but it won't compile... i think it's a gcc4 issue
<dholbach> maybe just get rid of xdb
<dholbach> maybe some oleo hardcore user will propose a patch
<dholbach> ... maybe ...
<ivoks> there is no oleo users :)
<ivoks> on oleo page they say gnumeric is better
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> REALLY?
<ivoks> check out
<doko> ivoks: ?
<dholbach> oh yes... looks nice
<ivoks> http://www.gnu.org/software/oleo/oleo.html
<dholbach> OpenOffice: take this, in your face: http://www.gnu.org/software/oleo/oleo1.png
<ivoks> doko the patch does have unrelated changes.?
<ivoks> doko you are, i suposse, talking about config.* stuff
<doko> dholbach: you're working on your thesis? very well!
<dholbach> doko: i wanted to end the evening with some c++ packages
<doko> ivoks: yes, exactly, just remove it from the patch please
<ivoks> well... ok
<doko> gnumeric is a nice application ...
<ivoks> haha you didn't see oleo then :)
<ivoks> doko ok, uploaded
<doko> uploaded? I hope only the patch ;)
<ivoks> only patch
<ivoks> don't let it's size fool you
<ivoks> i removed one usless patch in debian/patches
<ivoks> and doko we have one broken dependecy
<ivoks> wftk can't be build...
<ivoks> libsdl-mixer1.2 need transition - that's from main
<ivoks> darkaudit gksudo synaptic
<doko> ivoks: very strange. preparing an update
<ivoks> doko it depends on libsmpeg0
<ivoks> not libsmpeg0c2
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-24
<ivoks> there goes aptitude and ubuntu-minimal :)
<motaboy> night all!
<ivoks> night!
<doko> ivoks: libsdl-mixer1.2 is updated
<Burgundavia> siretart, MOTUGames created
<siretart> Burgundavia: w00t :)
<dholbach> ROCK!!!
<dholbach> i think i'm going to bed now, sleep tight guys
<JDahl> is http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide the recommended guide for builing ubuntu packages?
<tritium> JDahl, it's what I started from.
<HostingGeek> JDahl: no it the recommended guide for building deb packages
<Burgundavia> siretart, I just threw a lot crapload of info on MOTUGames
<siretart> Burgundavia: nice.
<Burgundavia> siretart, basically created a clearinghouse of stuff that is under active development and is useful
* Burgundavia would like to note that he rarely plays games, just likes looking at nice art
<siretart> the page is a good starting point for doing work.
<siretart> will look tomorrow for stuff needs to be done, no I need a bed ;)
<siretart> gn8, cya tomorrow
<siretart> s/no/now/
<Burgundavia> cheers
<tseng> how long will NEW be frozen
<tseng> Burgundavia: is your blam fixed now?
<tseng> do we have a monkey journal package somewhere?
<|QuaD-_> tseng: lol....
<tseng> zomglolerskater
<tseng> |QuaD-_: heh we got trolled.
<|QuaD-_> tseng: :)
<tseng> id better sleep
<tseng> cya dudes
<|QuaD-_> ttyl
<JDahl> I am trying to package a python extension module, and I need to know the platform specific lib path (e.g., build/linux-i686-2.4). Can anyone think of a simple way to get that information in setup.py?
* Amaranth cries
<JDahl> Amaranth, ?
<Amaranth> oh, i was hoping vlc would be fixed before the C++ move
<Amaranth> so i could use the new dbus crack
<ajmitch_> you'll just have to be patient :)
<Amaranth> yeah, i know
<ajmitch_> what's wrong with vlc?
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Amaranth> if i try to install the new dbus and hal vlc gets removed
<ajmitch_> oh, is that all? :)
<ajmitch_> probably just needs rebuilt/transitioned to the new dbus
<ajmitch_> which may involve source changes
<JDahl> I made my rudimentary python package, but with a hardcoded link to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages (I have python2.4xxx in Build-Depends). My package works fine for python2.3 also, so is this a bad procedure, or should I just maintain seperate versions for python2.3 and python2.4 if I want that?
<Amaranth> JDahl: Well, ubuntu only has 2.4 (afaik) so it shouldn't be a problem.
<JDahl> Amaranth, yeah... but I wouldn't mind making it accessible for Debian also
<schweeb> ubuntu has 2.3 available to it.
<schweeb> and it's a good idea to make it as version agnostic as possible
<schweeb> IMO
<Amaranth> in the bittorrent package they have a PYTHON_VERSION variable that uses some shell command to get the version
<JDahl> ok, thanks.. I will look that up
* Amaranth goes to bed
<schweeb> if they use the Setup.py stuff
<schweeb> it should be pretty much automatic
<schweeb> (or whatever it's called, think it was setup.py)
<Treenaks> WTF? klibc? the KDE people thought glibc was the Gnome libc?
* Lathiat laughs
<Lathiat> Treenaks: its a minimal libc subset for use with early user sapce
<Treenaks> Lathiat: ah, like uclibc
<Lathiat> not really
<Treenaks> that's a minimal libc :)
<Lathiat> its more of a subset, specifically to provide enough for early user space stuff
<Treenaks> ah
<Lathiat> uclibc tends to implement most stuff
<Lathiat> not sure hwo far klibc goes
<Treenaks> yes, and there are tools to strip the unused functions given a set of binaries that use the lib
<Treenaks> or something
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> 'static linking'? ")
<Lathiat> :)
<Treenaks> no
<Treenaks> it really modifies the .so
<Lathiat> (i was joking)
<Treenaks> I did that once when I was installing Linux on some old SMC AP
<Treenaks> (don't ask :))
<Lathiat> heh cool
<Treenaks> it had 2M of memory
<HostingGeek> WTF? klibc? Treenaks thought klibc was the KDE libc?
<HostingGeek> :P
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: Its the bloatware libc
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: of course I didn't think that.. *sigh*
* Treenaks hands HostingGeek the dictionary page on sarcasm
* HostingGeek hands Treenaks the GNOME dictionary page on sarcasm
* Lathiat drops random unix manuals on HostingGeek 
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: what hosting company you own?
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: why do you ask?
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: i am always looking for a new hosting company :)
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: vhcshosting.com
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: ok
<HostingGeek> ahh lag...
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: no vds?
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: no
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: dedicated server @ savvis
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: i meant offering :)
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: Not for free... and not on the free server
<|QuaD-_> oh, i didn't even realize it was free :)
<HostingGeek> free server == server used for free hosting
<|QuaD-_> HostingGeek: pm
<HostingGeek> |QuaD-_: lol look at the reviews: http://www.clickherefree.com/hosting-free/details.php?id=2022
<Lathiat> yeh like those sites are ever credible
<ivoks> hi
<HostingGeek> WooHoo 7 clicks in adsense today!
<HostingGeek> and in the morning there was only 1
<ivoks> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList
<ivoks> i did my share for today :)
<GheRivero> res
<mdke> hi dudes
<mdke> i came in here yesterday to suggest a package for universe
<mdke> just spoke to the author, and he said that he would be happy to give up packaging it if one of you wanted to do it on a more format basis
<siretart> hi
<mdke> format/formal
<mdke> hi there
<siretart> mdke: which package?
<mdke> it is a update-rc.d frontend
<mdke> ici: http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubm.html
<Burgundavia> taht the forum one?
<siretart> hi Burgundavia
<mdke> Burgundavia, its on the forum, not sure if its the forum one
<Burgundavia> yes, it is
<mdke> you use it burgs?
<Burgundavia> no, just was talking with ogra about it
<mdke> what was the conclusion?
<Burgundavia> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27740
<Burgundavia> too much info
<Burgundavia> ogra Burgundavia, yep, i know the tool
* mdke nods
<Burgundavia> ogra azeem, to many options
<Burgundavia> ogra azeem, (in the tool)
<mdke> any feedback to the author would be appreciated I'm sure
<Burgundavia> it would be nice if we could bring him in
<Burgundavia> as a reach out to the community type of thing
<Burgundavia> bridge the forum, dev divide
<mdke> he is a nice guy
<mdke> about the most frequent poster to the italian ML
<Burgundavia> hmm, is built on perl
<ogra> mdke, i'll have to write a spec for that tool, a draft of what we awnt is on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalConfigTools
<mdke> yes
<mdke> hi ogra
<mdke> hmm
<tseng> hi ogra
<mdke> so you have a similar tool already?
<koke> ogra: my suggestion for GraphicalConfigTools, please use system-tools-backends :)
<ogra> hey tseng
<ogra> koke, where i can avoid that i wont :)
<tseng> ogra: we kicked ass on mono yesterday
<ogra> koke, but if you love to work on changing the awful perl code....
<mdke> ogra, ok that spec doesn't look much like his program ;) I would tend to say, the program is there, if someone wants to take over the packaging and put it in universe, then that's cool. If not, np
<ogra> tseng, yay
<tseng> monodevelop was working for awhile
<mdke> ogra, but you could contact him about it
<ogra> mdke, thats why i already put it on UniverseCandidates two weeks ago...
<mdke> ogra, ok sorry man
<mdke> ogra, i wasn't to know
<mdke> i'll tell the guy who writes it
<ogra> mdke, abelli poked me several times about it (twice a day for about a week)
<mdke> i bet
<mdke> ok
<mdke> i'm off
<mdke> thanks guys
<koke> ogra: I've just looked at the s-t-b perl scripts, and.... I agree 100% with you :D
<ogra> heh
<ogra> koke, but the plan is to probably make some bountys of it, so probably working for money on it might not be this bad :) lets see...
<koke> hmmm... bounties... :)
<janm> hi all!
<Burgundavia> what is the issue with gwet and gwet2?
<HostingGeek> hmm
<ogra_d> isnt gwget gtk1 ?
<ivoks> hi
<Burgundavia> no
<Burgundavia> gwget is the latest version of gwget
<Burgundavia> they both appear to be the same app
<ivoks> ?
<Burgundavia> just gwget is an older version
<ivoks> monolog? :)
<jbailey> Treenaks, Lathiat: uclibc still aims to be posix compliant.  klibc does not.
<jbailey> klibc is targeted at being included in the kernel, violates all sorts of elf linking semantics, and implements only just enough of everything in order to make early userspace happen.
<ivoks> hello doko :)
<doko> ivoks: hi
* koke seeks for an amd64 gcc-4.0 builder :)
<ajmitch_> hi
<koke> http://155.210.13.152/~koke/Devel/ubuntu/universe-transition/result/abcmidi.debdiff.diff
<koke> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=288770
<ivoks> is there a problem if i repackage one package from main?
<ivoks> i really hate how kernel-package is packaged
<thom> please don't fuck with kernel-package, it's kinda critical
* Burgundavia gives out the understatement award to thom
<koke> ouchh! kill me, my auto-patch scripts are not valid :(
<koke> they patch the sources directly, when it should be a dpatch
<koke> anyway I'll have a list of which patches apply cleanly
<koke> and a repository of patches
<DanielN> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<DanielN> found eof where expected more change data or trailer at /usr/lib/dpkg/parsechangelog/debian line 136, <STDIN> line 5.
<DanielN> dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package
<DanielN> anybody knows what this means?
<siretart> sounds like more severe damage
<Treenaks> that your debian/changelog is broken
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> but I'm using the given template
<siretart> DanielN: use dch(1) for editing debian/changelog
<ogra> DanielN, use dch
<DanielN> ok
<Lathiat> dch good
<Lathiat> i only found it when teuf showed me at lca
<Lathiat> i knew there had to be someting that did it because all the times always had second accuracy i just never bothered to look. :P)
<DanielN> hm, but dch prints out the same err msg
<DanielN> another question: can I make the gpg signing manually, when it's failed?
<jamessan|work> DanielN: debsign
<DanielN> thanks
<HiddenWolf> hey guys, what's the state of xfce in universe?
<ogra> its working fine
<HiddenWolf> is 4.3?(is it) in?
<DanielN> harhar.. first package built.. working fine :)
<ogra> HiddenWolf, 4.2.1 afaik....
<ogra> HiddenWolf, 4.3 will be breezy
<HiddenWolf> hm, I'm anxious for 4.3, and a breezy stable enough to dare switch :)
<ogra> HiddenWolf, but rather ask crimsun if hes around again, he manages the Xfce team
<ogra> breezy will break baly tomorrow...
<ogra> badly even
<Lathiat> what are you doing ogra :)
<HiddenWolf> c++?
<ogra> Lathiat, breaking all the c++ libs..... not me though
<HiddenWolf> ogra, I hope we've got some devels with a hoary system then. ;)
<ogra> nope, but hopefully some devs that dont use kubuntu ;)
<ogra> if you only do upgrades and no dist-upgrades it will work...
<thom> the developers don't generally ARE WE THERE YET apt-get as badly as the users ;-)
<Amaranth> thom: I resent that.
<HiddenWolf> poor sods, I bet the channel will flood with poor sods tomorrow.
* Amaranth hopes that's how you spell that word :)
<ogra> heh...
<thom> Amaranth: "resemble" ;-)
<Amaranth> I have no problems with all my C++ being removed, except vlc. :)
<chmj> http://www.lyrical.nl/song/5713
<Amaranth> update-manager only does upgrade, right?
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> since it's meant for security stuff
<Amaranth> and *-updates stuff, i guess
<bddebian> Howdy
<ivoks> hi hay :)
<GheRivero> res
<ivoks> panic in windows world... new virus :)
<HiddenWolf> ivoks, new species of sophur?
<ivoks> Newheur-PE
<ivoks> and
<ivoks> Win32.Worm.Eyeveg.F
<tseng|work> hi
<ivoks> i don't know what they are, but nod32 is the only one detecting them
<ivoks> so, i don't care :)
<ivoks> http://sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32eyevegg.html
<HiddenWolf> hah, i wish they'd invent something new
<HiddenWolf> have it use email, and wifi :)
<HiddenWolf> it'd bounce through the air, literally
<HiddenWolf> I'm sure it's possible. :P
<koke> I have serious problems with the UniverseCxxTransition page
<koke> firefox and w3m crash when editing :(
<Lathiat> ive had lots of firefox crashes recently
* Fackamato macaronies unt teh falu sausage for teh win aye le soon le fewd
<herve> hi!
<Amaranth> hi
<bddebian> Heya herve
<herve> did you make the right choice? http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php
<herve> :-)
<ogra_d> herve, my first choice seems to be debian....my second is ubuntu it says....
<ogra_d> ubuntu is missing the logo :-/
<herve> ogra, so you made the right choice :-)
<ogra_d> heh
<thom> herve: are you writing that page?
<thom> becuase i told it "dev tools easily available" and it said Failed these criterias:
<thom> # Does not include development tools
<thom> for ubuntu
<herve> ogra, me too :-)
<herve> thom, no, just found it in a news site
<abarbaccia> what's the deal with the mono team right now - beagle package still needs to have dependencies built in
<herve> strange, I chose easily available development tools
<ogra> abarbaccia, please see the topic
<herve> but when, once you choose a free distro with apt-get, etc.
<herve> it gives you debian/ubuntu
<herve> ogra_d, I have the ubuntu logo
<Amaranth> ha, i told it i didn't care about the package manager and i still got debian and ubuntu
<Amaranth> and it basically told me about every major distro out there
<herve> Amaranth, all your base are belong to ubuntu! :-)
<herve> ogra, I guess you're tracking the mono uploads in debian?
<ogra> herve, tseng does
<thom> what's still needed for monodevelop?
<herve> raise your arm for an omelette
<herve> so I know how many eggs I have to break :-)
* ogra still looks at f-spot, monodevelop didnt build yet
<koke> where can I get a popcon list??
<koke> to sort a list of packages to be fixed??
<thom> koke: popcon.ubuntu.com?
<ogra> popcon.ubuntu.com ?
<koke> oh! thanks :)
<koke> I should try the obvious choice more often
<ogra> popcon really should get derooted and get a gui....
<thom> it doesn't need a gui, besides the one to say "enable popcon y/n"
<Amaranth> does anyone know where i can get libwxgtk2.5-dev?
<ogra> thats what i mean... a .desktop file with a nifty icon...
<thom> and it runs as nobody
<thom>   HOME=/tmp su nobody -pc "sh -c /usr/sbin/popularity-contest"
<Amaranth> err, libwxgtk2.5-dev is in hoary but not breezy?
* Amaranth gives up on wx2.5
<abarbaccia> orga did not see that there!! sorry bout that
<koke> I'm a bit lost in transition :)
<koke> what should I do whith UniverseCxxTransition?
<koke> I *need* to fix something :)
<Amaranth> koke: You've been around seb128 too long.
<DanielN> question: is there only gpl'ed software in universe?
<Amaranth> no
<DanielN> then it's possible to add a BSD licensed programm, for e.g?
<Amaranth> I don't see why not.
<DanielN> ok
<koke> bye
<koke> out of bettery
<koke> :(
<herve> Amaranth, do you still need info about libwxgtk2.5-dev?
<Amaranth> herve: yeah
<herve> wx 2.5 was removed from unstable
<herve> dangerous crap conflicting with 2.4
<herve> and a nice flamewar on debian-devel :-)
<Amaranth> link to said flame war? :)
<herve> search "outragous maintainer"
<herve> removed from unstable, I mean removed from the debian archives
<herve> by the ftpmasters
<Amaranth> so why is it removed from breezy?
<herve> or just wxWidgets
<herve> because of sync?
<herve> because elmo reads debian-devel? :-)
<Amaranth> bleh, why do we care about 2.4?
<herve> because of the many packages using it
<Amaranth> so why not add a Conflicts?
<herve> ask the maintainer
<herve> that was the start of the flamewar
<herve> no, in fact
<herve> the flamewar begins in a bugreport
<herve> about asking to add the Conflicts
<Amaranth> i mean why can't we have a Conflicts in the Ubuntu version?
<Amaranth> 'Ubuntu and its "appropriation" of Debian maintainers'
<DanielN> Packaged "when" and "qemu-launcher"
<Amaranth> when?
<herve> batteries...
<ivoks> herve :)
<herve> yo ivoks!
<DanielN> when - simple calendar
<herve> DanielN, I didn't get your point about GPL'ed programs in universe
<Amaranth> herve: So, where can I get wx2.5 packages then? :)
<ivoks> hm...
<herve> koke, batteries too? :-)
<ivoks> what a bunch of idiots...
<herve> Amaranth, use the source Luke ;-)
<ivoks> "you destroyed our server, we can't print anymore"
<ivoks> idiots...
<Amaranth> err, where are the source packages? :)
<DanielN> herve: I asked if there are non gpl'ed programs in universe
<koke> herve: I got some power :)
<herve> DanielN, haaaaa I missed the "non"!
<ivoks> they were printing over IPP directly to printer... idiots... and he has MS certificats for system administrator...
<koke> what do you think about http://pastebin.com/285256 ??
<herve> koke, me too! too late sadly...
<koke> it worths an upload??
<DanielN> herve: :-)
<herve> ivoks, the printer ran out of memory? crashed? burnt?
<ivoks> herve no... stoopid osx has serius problems with stability
<herve> koke, harmless and useful, upload and send the patch where appriopriate
<herve> (appropriate)
<ivoks> today was sooooo hot in zagreb
<herve> ivoks, and they thought that was the server down?
<ivoks> i got angry, went to the store and buyed new pants... this one on me were totaly wett :(
<herve> :-)
<herve> I'd the sun to come out here in Grenoble
<herve> +like
<ivoks> herve no... server is up... they tought server did something to mac and make him unable to print
<herve> ivoks, baaad bad server!
<herve> ivoks, looks like a new entry to the BOFH!
<ivoks> i wouldn't say anything if some guy tells me stuff like that
<ivoks> but, MSCE
<ivoks> brainwashed
<herve> well, you didn't expect a MSCE guy to get a clue about MacOSX? ;-)
<ivoks> herve no, but how can MSCE guy be so dumb to tell linux did something to osx and this one can't print anymore
<ivoks> same guy told me that microsoft invented TCP/IP
<ivoks> what do they learn them on that courses? :)
<herve> you told it, brainwashed
<ivoks> somethimes i think that MSCE really don't know what Windows can do...
<ivoks> omg does anyone uses bacula backup system?
<ivoks> or even reads posts on bcaula user list?
<ivoks> no...
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> too bad, there are some really funny stuff going on :)
<siretart> ivoks: nope, but why?
<ivoks> one guy said that bacula isn't backup system for production
<ivoks> when someone asked him why
<ivoks> he said it can't restore files
<ivoks> omg :)
<koke> ouch! REJECTED, uploads to hoary are not allowed :)
<herve> koke, hoary-updates?
<koke> no, hoary
<herve> what did you expect then? :-)
<koke> I missed to change the distribution
<ogra> herve, all hoary uploads have to be processed manually....
<herve> ha ok
<koke> I know, it was for breezy
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> so...
<ivoks> would anyone review that wifi-radar?
<herve> ivoks, what changed?
<ivoks> nothing :)
<ivoks> it just waits for approval :)
<herve> did I finished reviewing it...
<ivoks> i'm going to die of old age before my package get's uploaded
<ivoks> herve you did, but shouldn't couple of motus review it?
<herve> come on, time needs time (French proverb)
<herve> ivoks, another couple, yes
<ivoks> brb
<siretart> I prepared yesterday an updated package for keychain, and put it to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUToReview. Is anyone looking at that page or should I rather ping maintainers for reviewing?
<herve> both
<herve> if some are online, take your chance
<koke> uploads already auto-close bugs in malone??
<siretart> ok. will do
<koke> have to go, see u
<herve> do you get the same problem of gnome hanging when you log out?
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> i have problem that suspend to sleep doesn't work on 2.6.12 :(
<herve> I won't trust 2.6.12 as long as it's not released stable and packaged in main :-)
<siretart> AOL :)
<herve> how do you get the latest bugs entered in bugzilla?
<herve> when do we have an rss export, too? :-)
<ivoks> heh... and 2.6.11 is usless for my laptop :(
<ivoks> back to the old 2.6.10
<siretart> ivoks: whats bad about 2.6.10?
<ivoks> dpkg-gencontrol: error: package kernel-image-2.6.10 not in control info
<ivoks> god, how i hate kernel-package in ubuntu
<ivoks> siretart nothing much
<herve> ivoks, what about it? you were trying to compile linux-image-2.6.10?
<ivoks> i know how to...
<ivoks> but that should be default
<ivoks> not kernel-image
<herve> send a patch ;-)
<ivoks> maybe i will
<ivoks> i downloaded source allready
<ivoks> it seems like i should send a patch for mozilla-firefox source, too
<thom> ivoks: oh?
<ivoks> thom ;)
<ivoks> thom for that vendorSub
<herve> ivoks, 1.0.4 was uploaded
<ivoks> really?
<herve> but I don't know if it passed the buildds
<ivoks> herve to hoary?
<herve> well, no
<herve> hoary is rock-solid
<thom> ivoks: no, don't bother. i've got a patch for that already
<ivoks> well, hoary is problem
<ivoks> thom ok
<ivoks> nice to hear that...
<thom> ivoks: no new upload till the 1.0.4 vulns are actually released on wednesday
<ivoks> ok
<herve> thom, so you intend to push firefox 1.0.4 into hoary?
<thom> herve: no
<ivoks> herve no
<ivoks> just patch for 1.0.2
<ivoks> right?
<herve> just make it up like a 1.0.4?
<thom> yes
<ivoks> ubuntu's firefox will lie like a bi..tch
<herve> not that much
<ivoks> it will be 1.0.4, it will say to you it's 1.0.2
<thom> herve: no, just take the security patches and apply them to 1.0.4, then change the version we advertise
<herve> it has the patches updates.mozilla.org is whining to have
<ivoks> and behind ur back it will talk that she's acctually 1.0.4 :)
<thom> we're missing all the feature changes, thank god
<herve> thom, apply them to 1.0.2 you mean?
<thom> uh, yeah
<herve> ok, I get it
<herve> really no exception allowed
<herve> just cheating to the annoying website ;-)
<thom> yep
<ivoks> thom is mozilla suite in same problems?
<ivoks> i don't understand something...
<ivoks> wherever I go, and have to choose contry
<ivoks> it's allways Italy, France, Germany, etc..
<thom> ivoks: no-one has mentioned it happening on suite
<ivoks> but Croatia is allways Croatia/Hrvatska or Croatia (Hrvatska)
<ivoks> thom ok
<herve> ivoks, what about it?
<ivoks> why two names? :)
<herve> what is Hrvatska?
<ivoks> Croatian name for Croatia
<ivoks> like Deutschland for Germany
<ivoks> or Osterich for Austria
<herve> yes, yes :-)
<herve> there you se
<herve> e
<herve> why it is useful :-)
<ivoks> herve were you in croatia?
<ivoks> or you thom ?
<herve> no, but I was told it's really nice
<herve> I should go some day
<ivoks> you should
<thom> hrm? no, never
<herve> just for vacations :-)
<ivoks> for vacations, ofcourse
<ogra> thom, go there, its worth it :)
<ivoks> ogra you have been here? :)
<thom> ogra: it's on the list
* ogra was there for some weeks before the war
<ivoks> and?
<ogra> 1987
<ivoks> that's long time ago
<ogra> the village i lived in wont exist anymore...
<ivoks> :(
<ivoks> there are many villages like that one... :(
<ogra> it was between knin and drnis, the frontline was there somewhere
<ivoks> even citys :(
<ivoks> ogra nice
<ivoks> lot's of donkeys :)
<herve> ogra, how old are you, if not too intimate
<ogra> yep, very beautiful and nice people there
<ogra> 35
<ivoks> ogra go to Dubrovnik
<ivoks> best looking girls live there
<ivoks> and, that's not a joke
<ogra> i was 17 and drove to turkey with my 7HP motobike :)
<ivoks> that's becuse the way they live
<ogra> i was in dubrovnik ;)
<ivoks> you know that dubrovnik was bombed too?
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> that beautifull, old, old town :(
<ivoks> you know that guy who orderd that...
<ogra> yep, silly humans
<ivoks> was released, as not guilty? :)
<ogra> silly humans, as i said....
<ivoks> very sad part of histroy
<ivoks> we could've spilt nice, like chezh and slovaks
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> but no... some brainded man was on the wrong place in wrong time...
<ivoks> he started 4 wars in 10 years :) break that record :))
<ogra> hmm, does the bush family count ?
<ivoks> hehehe
<therning> isn't it a bit more complicated than that? "wrong man in wrong place"
<ivoks> ogra, no, they aren't from this planet :)
<ogra> heh
<ivoks> therning what do you mean?
<ogra> therning, sure, but you can boil it down to that...
<ogra> ivoks, there is more involved then only one man to run a war...
<therning> well, the previous leader spent years mixing up the country, moving people around, then you have the fact that the country has so many religions
<ivoks> ogra ofcourse
<ivoks> therning what country?
<therning> Yugoslavia
<ivoks> well... mixing didn't start in yugoslavia
<ivoks> it started a long long time ago
<therning> how do you mean?
<ivoks> bosnia and croatia were on country
<ivoks> called croatia
<ivoks> then Islam kingdom camed
<ivoks> and conquerd all the balkans
<ivoks> serbs moved a cross bosnia to croatia
<therning> yes, but didn't Tito has an explicit strategy of moving people of different origins arond in the country to make sure Yugoslavia wouldn't split?
<ivoks> bosnia was taken by islam kingdon
<ivoks> therning no
<therning> kind of like what was tried in Soviet as well?
<ivoks> therning noone moved in yugoslavia
<ivoks> islam conquerd 4/5 of croatia
<ivoks> but then we managed to reclaim most of our land, never bosnia
<therning> islam, the religion, or an islamic country?
<ivoks> and some parts that are now in serbia...
<ivoks> country
<ivoks> big kingdom
<ivoks> from eruope to india
<Nafallo> russia!
<therning> so, what times are we talking about now? Tito times, or long before that?
<ivoks> :)
<Nafallo> ?
<ivoks> long before
<ogra> therning, long before
<ivoks> 1700 and begining of 1800s
<ivoks> then was end
<ivoks> they were so long here that lot of population took islam religion
<ivoks> so, you have muslims in bosnia that came from croatia and serbia
<ivoks> some didn't convert and you have three religions there
<ivoks> very messed up country
<ivoks> tito did move some people... but not nations... he just put his men on top positions to easily rull the country
<therning> no, not really messed up, slightly confused, that's all... messed up people in power though
<ivoks> therning problem is that bosina, as state, never existed
<ivoks> after islam kingodm
<herve> chocolate, anyone?
<ivoks> it was part of austro-hungaryan kingdom
<ivoks> as croatia too
<ivoks> then comes that very sad story about WWII
<ivoks> you can't imagine how that was mesed up here..
<ivoks> in germany, you had nazis
<therning> no, I don't think I can
<ivoks> in UK, were alies
<ivoks> but here..
<therning> I've lived most of my life in a European country that hasn't been to war for more than a century
<ivoks> some were nazis, some alies, some didn't know what to do at all :)
<ivoks> therning sweeden? :)
<therning> yupp
<ivoks> nice country..
<ivoks> but, i don't like to move
<ozamosi> therning, werent we at war with san marino or something up untill a few years ago because we forgott to declare peace some time long ago?
<ivoks> i like croatia... very nice people, land...
<ivoks> :)))
<ivoks> san marino? :)
<ozamosi> not sure...
<therning> No: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=472835
<ozamosi> Just checked myself, and found out too that i was wrong
<therning> well, I really didn't come here to discuss history though :)
<herve> that's ubuntu ;-)
<herve> and share of knowledge
<therning> ah yes...
<therning> I was a bit curious about MOTU
<ozamosi> I am what I am because of what we all are, and we all are apparently not at war with san marino :)
<herve> ozamosi, lol
<herve> therning, motu: we fix the universe and remake the world!
<therning> yes... I know :)
<therning> I've been looking up the procedure for joining
<ivoks_> that broken, broken, broken 2.6.12 :(
<therning> I have a few packages that I keep in an APT repo, once upon a time I considered trying to become a Debian Maintainer, but the entrance was a bit too time consuming
<herve> well, does "remake the world" means what I expect...
<herve> therning, we like existing packages maintainers too ;-)
<ogra> we also make the universe expand ! :)
<therning> I never went through with it... too much work to join Debian properly
<ogra> ...are we god ??
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> therning, so this is the right place for you :)
<herve> ogra, no, just building highways across space :-)
<therning> it looked like MOTU was a bit easier, and since I'm using Ubuntu now it'd be a better fit I guess
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> therning, yeah, its quite easy to become a motu
<herve> well, when you have a proper key ;-)
<ogra> the easieast is to help in a transiton and the rest happens all alone....
<therning> proper key? I assume you mean GPG key?
<herve> therning, yes
<therning> transition?
<herve> ogra, well, member -> maintainer -> motu
<herve> therning, we are moving to gcc and g++ 4.0
<ogra> herve, except you are tritium ;)
<herve> this breaks many libs and packages
<therning> ah, yes, I was reading about that on the ubuntu-dev list
<ogra> herve, he made it the other way around, its obviously possible *g*
<herve> ogra, speaking of that, daniel considered me a motu before my key issue was solved
<herve> I still don't know if I'm registred as one in some record :-)
<siretart> ogra: do you have time to review 2 packages? one is a simple one, just a dependency correction (keychain) and the other one is a CXXTransistion
<ogra> therning, the transitions we do (python for hoary and gcc/++4 for breezy) are mostly just doing rebuilds of the packages and change some minor stuf, so its the easiest way to get familiar with packaging
<herve> therning, we have nice tool but they require a learning step
<herve> toolzzz
<therning> I'm pretty familiar to packaging already though
<ogra> siretart, my GF just cooks for me, it'll have to wait a bit, but i'll look at least at one after dinner...
<siretart> alright :)
<herve> therning, we don't mean building backports :-p
<ogra> siretart, urls are on the wiki?
<therning> if there are some good pointers for dpatch it'd be helpful... I've run across it a few times, and find it somewhat confusing
<herve> therning, yes, wait a few secs
<herve> therning, http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<therning> I've packaged a few pieces of software, python packages and software using auto-tools for building, mostly using CDDBS
<herve> afterwards, ask here
<herve> we'll guide you
<siretart> ogra: yepp
<therning> sounds good to me...
<ogra> therning, if we teach people packaging we start with using plain debhelper packaged packages to get the basics, but the target is to make more use of cdbs (you dont learn packaging through it, but maintenance is very easy) which makes dpatch a important tool
<ogra> siretart, great :)
* thom beats ogra
<siretart> oh, poker3d is missing
<siretart> just a moment
<thom> please don't teach people cdbs until they actually know what they're doing properly
<thom> *please*
<ogra> thom, what ? isnt maintenance easier with cdbs ?
<thom> ogra: personally i think it's about a 1000% harder
<herve> thom, I think that's what ogra meant
<therning> I did use plain debhelper for my first packaging project... once I tried CDBS I didn't look back though
<herve> siretart, hmm... someone spoke about it yesterday, isn't it already booked?
<ogra> i dont use cdbs , but i give tribute to dholbach who is addited to it ;)
<thom> ogra: as soon as you need to do something complex, you have neither the tools nor the indepth knowledge to do it, and then you're just hosed. if people wish to use cdbs, fine. but don't teach anything but debhelper, please
<herve> well, he is addicted to harry potter too ;-)
<thom> please :-)
<ogra> therning, it often occurs that you get packages tat were packaged with dh before, are now cdbs and didnt get repackaged clean, so you have to know both
<therning> thom: any example of what's too complex for CDBS?
<ogra> thom, ok...
<siretart> herve: I havn't found anything im my backlog
<thom> therning: not too complex, but just hard especially when it's all make magic
<therning> ogra: good point
<ogra> thom, i'm absolutely with you, bt convincing dholbach, seb128 or jbailey isnt easy though
<herve> siretart, maybe you weren't here ;-)
<herve> ivoks, do you remember who was talking about poker3d? except the two of us :-)
<thom> therning: cdbs is like perl in many way
<thom> it's ugly as hell, lots of people like it, and no-one really understands what's going on *grin*
<therning> well, I'm a strong believer in the right tool for the job...
<therning> CDBS might be theright tool at times
<herve> when there are no special cases, first?
<thom> i have nothing against people using it
<thom> don't get me wrong
<jbailey> thom: Err.  I don't think I've ever heard someone describe the rules files used when using cdbs as ugly.  Or do you mean internally?
<thom> i just don't think you should teach it to people
<thom> jbailey: internally, and when you start overriding targets it's not always pleasant
<thom> the perl comment is rather tongue in cheeck
<therning> so, any pointers of what's needed for universe at the moment?
<thom> ber, cheek
<therning> perl is tongue-in-cheek :)
<herve> therning, the cxx transhumance is our main concern for now
<jbailey> thom: It's okay, thinking about perl will rot your brain.  Those are just the symptoms showing up. =)
<siretart> oh yes, the fun with makefiles..
<herve> otherwise, it's malone bugs fixing
<herve> therning, you'll work on a package, then find a maintainer to review and upload it
<thom> jbailey: *g*
<therning> is the work co-ordinated through the wiki? I just need a starting point
<ogra> therning, yep
<herve> therning, we try as hard as possible :-)
<therning> MOTU pages on the Wiki?
<jbailey> thom: Ultimately, I'd like cdbs to be as acceptible as debhelper is.  Given that people who use it tend to find it eases their maintenance burden, I'd prefer to find ways to address your concerns rather than actively discouraging people from teaching it.
<herve> sure
<herve> search things like "motu", "transition"
<thom> jbailey: meh; i've always been of the opinion that it's *far* better to teach the underlying tools than a frontend
<thom> jbailey: this is more of the same
<herve> jbailey, I just remember you are the author... :-)
<jbailey> thom: Sure, but then you advocate using debhelper. ;)
<jbailey> herve: Oh sure.  I own up to that.  But that's part of why I chime in and try to make sure that the tool is working for everyone.  It doesn't do anyone any good if it rots.
<jbailey> herve: I can assure you that I have no hidden agenda about cdbs.  I'd like everyone to use it, and I'd like it to be good enough for everything. =)
<ogra> therning, you are signed by Martin Pool, so your key isnt something to worry about, great :)
<siretart> jbailey: how coming cdbs2 along?
<thom> jbailey: *shrug*; cdbs is "just" a frontend to debhelper isn't it? ;-) i think dh_* is a reasonable balance between dpkg-dev'ing and cdbs, you still appreciate the structure and exactly what's going on, whilst staying high level enough that you don't get bogged in the details unless you want to
<thom> (and yes, i know that's mildly contradictory)
<jbailey> siretart: Dilinger did some amazing work on it over the past month or so.  It builds a few packages now (including being self hosting)
<jbailey> thom: I'm happy as long as the contradiction is acnowledged ;)
<siretart> great! is there some webpage or example packages I can look at?
<thom> jbailey: :-)
<jbailey> siretart: I think he's been keeping svn updated on alioth.
<siretart> ok. I'll look
<therning> ogra: I'm signed by Martin Pool?
<therning> you sure?
<ogra> http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xAB4DFBA4
<herve> haaa... the old debate between "concrete" and "abstract" pedagogic methods :-)
<ogra> if that is you
<therning> ogra: yes it is :) cool
<therning> just that I never asked Martin to sign my key
<ogra> therning, oh
<therning> I did exchange some emails with him, but I didn't expect him to sign my key...
<therning> so, I think it'd be prudent to have someone check me out a bit more before accepting my key
<ogra> hmm, normally you dont sign keys of people you never met in person...
<herve> night all
<therning> ogra: I know
<therning> or at least you should be confident enough the person is who he claims to be
<ajmitch_> morning
<ajmitch_> ah, they had this discussion only a few hours ago in -devel :)
<ogra> ajmitch_, cdbs, gpg or croatia ? which one ?
<ajmitch_> ogra: gpg
* ogra applauds thom extatically 
<ogra> youre the MOTF !
<siretart> motf?
<ogra> master of the firefox :)
<siretart> hehe. w00t! :)
<siretart> ah, I read the email. great! :)
<ajmitch_> looks like I need to catch up on c++ transition work
<ajmitch_> hi koke
<koke> hi!
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
<motaboy> Hi all!
<ivoks> hi
<koke> hey german people, can you reproduce this bug??
<koke> ouch
<koke> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/672
<ivoks> Dejan Milosavljevic
<ivoks> doesn't sound german to me :)
<ivoks> koke someone should fix it and send a patch
<koke> ivoks: it's expected to be fixed in current release
<koke> we have 0.4.1, and last one is 0.4.4
<koke> which is ready to be uploaded :)
<koke> but I'd like to know
<koke> a) if the bug exists
<koke> b) if it's fixed with 0.4.4
<ivoks> koke 0.4.4 isn't going to be uploaded to hoary
<ajmitch> koke: btw, patch for qemu & gcc 4.0 was committed to cvs
<ivoks> nothing will be uploaded to hoary, only fixes
<koke> ajmitch: thanks, I'll take a look
<koke> ivoks: I'm talking about breezy, of course
<ajmitch> koke: I looked at 0.7.0 as well :)
<ivoks> koke ok
<ivoks> koke contact siggi@debian.org
<koke> ivoks: about gxine or qemu or what?
<ivoks> gxine
<koke> ajmitch: do you know where is the qemu patch??
<ivoks> ok, let's give 2.6.12 another try :)
<\sh> morning
<ajmitch> koke: no, I haven't grabbed it yet, I was going to put together a 0.7.0 package in the weekend but didn't
* ajmitch found it
<ajmitch> ok, not sure if it was committed to cvs :)
<ivoks> it looks like ti works :)
<koke> ajmitch: I've seen it in the list
<ajmitch> koke: yep, that's the one (or two)
<\sh> 3 days free, 3 days stress, 3days office work
<ajmitch> \sh: that's a pretty good schedule..
<ivoks> so.. today breezy breaks? :)
* ajmitch is looking forward to it :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> we'll have lots of fun
<ajmitch> of course!
<ivoks> and what about us, that are using breezy in day-to-day work? :)
<koke> I guess we have to fix CxxLibraryList before UniverseCxxTransition, or I'm wrong?
<ivoks> i'll do chmod -x `which apt-get` :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> koke: yes, definitely
<thom> ivoks: people that use breezy for day to day work are assumed to be competent to avoid breakage
<ivoks> hm... if doko isn't answering on bug reports with diff, does that means patches are ok?
<ivoks> thom I am, don't wory
<ajmitch> it's the #ubuntu people that want to run breezy that we have to deal with
<Burgundavia> thom, right!
<doko> ivoks: ogra or I weill answer ...
<ajmitch> doko: you want patches up ASAP?
* ajmitch finds bugzilla a bit painful, so puts it off until he has decent bandwidth :)
<koke> ivoks: I guess the optimal solution is a detached screen with aptitude open, locking the dpkg database :D
<doko> ajmitch: the patch should be there before the package enters the archive
<koke> brb
<ajmitch> ok, I'll put the ones I've done in tomorrow at work
<ivoks> doko ok :) then i guess patches are ok
<ajmitch> it takes ~1 min to load a page on bugzilla with that big js
<ivoks> hm..
* ajmitch needs to find a decent utf-8 capable terminal
<ajmitch> gnome-terminal is deathly slow at times
<thom> g-t works fine here, but *shrug*
<Treenaks> uxterm works fine
* Treenaks hugs his uxterm
<ajmitch> yeah, but alt-[0-9]  seem to enter odd characters, which isn't quite what I want
<ivoks> how is uxterm different of xterm?
<ajmitch> thom: the AA text makes the scrolling a bit slow
<Treenaks> ajmitch: UXTerm*metaSendsEscape: true
<Treenaks> ajmitch: in ~/.Xresources
<ajmitch> Treenaks: thanks :)
<thom> ajmitch: better for my eyes than nasty xterm fonts ;-)
<ivoks> karsten :)
<Treenaks> thom: the default 'fixed' is nice...
<ivoks> man...
<Treenaks> thom: the aa crap makes my eyes bleed (courier is ugly, vera sans mono is uglier, etc.)
<ajmitch> Treenaks: seems to work, thanks for that
<Treenaks> ajmitch: np :)
<ivoks> uxterm is xterm with utf8?
<ajmitch> ivoks: yea
<koke> ivoks: uxterm is "xterm -class UXTerm -title uxterm -u8"
<Treenaks> koke: yes, which makes it read /etc/X11/app-defaults/UXterm
<Treenaks> koke: which has some font definitions
<ivoks> ah.. helpdesks :)
<ivoks> i changed my ADSL profile..
<\sh> ajmitch: it wasn't a schedule, that was happening during the last 3 days...normally: 3days off, but 3 days of stress with dtv and monitoring staff
<koke> ajmitch: qemu stil FTBFS :(
<ivoks> og...
<ivoks> see u guys
<koke> hey, any objection to upload gxine 0.4.4?
<tseng> I cant think of one, besides NewPackages proceedure
<koke> is there any way atm to create motu sub-teams in malone??
<ivoks> doko | ogra  libfltk1.1 is needed for yacas... so, when you will have time, please upload it :)
<doko> ivoks: it's in my archive
<ivoks> is? hm..
<ivoks> i have only c102
<ivoks> hm...
<doko> ohh, wait, I only did the source upload ...
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> np
<doko> ivoks: updated the archive
<ivoks> i see
<ivoks> thanx
<siretart> hi motus!
<siretart> is anyone attending the TB meeting tonight?
<ogra> sure
<siretart> ogra: the problem is, that I'm at a course with my GF tonight, and cannot attend at 2200. But I will join you at 2245 (all MEZ)
<siretart> would you excuse me please?
<ogra> thats ok, i'll do
<siretart> thanks!
<koke> hi bradb !
<koke> is planned something for malone bug #494 ??
<bradb> hey koke
<bradb> not sure yet
<bradb> my dups patch is awaiting code review, which addresses a part of the problem
<bradb> let's just say i had to mud wrestle sabdfl to even get up to the five statuses we now have (it was originally just New, Open and Closed.)
<bradb> New, Open and Closed make sense in the world of a hardcore developer, but make little sense in the world of a bugtracker used by human beings
<koke> o_O
<koke> so, when I have a bug which is really a bug but NEEDSINFO?? ;)
<bradb> koke: there's no good solution for that yet; nothing that will help you filter your listings in a useful way, anyway.
<bradb> even when the status whiteboard lands, that's still a pretty hackish option
<koke> and Wontfix as a priority...
<\sh> ogra: I'm also not there this evening...if you like, postpone my application or speak in my name :)
<koke> I'm not sure if that's the place
* \sh needs to wash clothes...more important ;)
<koke> bradb: maybe something for "I've uploaded a new version supossed to fix that but I'm awaiting confirmation"
<koke> but in the meantime I don't want the bug appearing in my bug list
<koke> maybe close with a "reopen it if it fails again..."?
<bradb> koke: we already have PendingUpload
<koke> bradb: I believed that was for "I'm going to upload it and I'm sure it closes the bug"
<koke> I guess a Closes: in the changelog will eventually close malone bugs too
<bradb> koke: eventually, yeah
<ivoks> uh..
<ivoks> i didn't know plone/zope is so great
<ivoks> remineds me on typo3
<DanielN> ogra, there ?
<ogra> yep
<DanielN> du bist deutscher oder?
<ogra> jop
<DanielN> ok dann knnen wir ja so fortfahren
<DanielN> naja jedenfalls hab ich mich mal an das "when" paket gemacht, welches ja ein universe candidate ist
<ogra> guut
<ogra> but lets keep the channel english, PM me if you like ;)
<DanielN> we can talk in english too, no problem
<ogra> ok
<ivoks> ich verstehen :)
<ogra> hehe
<DanielN> :)
<ogra> DanielN, put the source package up somewhere and add information to the MOTUToReview wiki page
<ivoks> nicht sehr gutt, aber... :)
<DanielN> ok, but must do that in the evening, the whole package stuff is at home :)
<DanielN> thanks to you, ogra
<ogra> DanielN, ok, reviewing takes some time anyway, so dont hurry :) ...
<DanielN> k
<DanielN> eh, but one question: am i able to upload somewhere, since im not a motu-guy, ogra
<ivoks> ogra isn't it MOTUNewPackages?
<ogra> err, true
<ogra> DanielN, MOTUNewPackages indeed, thanks ivoks
<ogra> DanielN, dont you have webspace somewhere where you can put it ?
<ogra> DanielN, you'll not be able to upload yourself to the archive until youre a approved MOTU
<\sh> DanielN: if you need a place to publish, I'm glad to provide some space :)
<DanielN> ogra, sure i've got space, thougt uploading should be on a special ubuntu-server or something. it's ok in this case :)
<DanielN> \sh, as you can read i've got space, thanks for your offer :)
<DanielN> mhm.. why the hell i get opped here when i type "op all" .. anarchy chan? :D
<\sh> op all ?
<DanielN> ./msg chanserv op all
<thom> that's a little scary
<DanielN> :)
<\sh> wrong config for chanserv
<DanielN> think that too :)
<\sh> please file bug in malone ;)
<\sh> _don't_ do it ;)
<DanielN> ogra, must I build the Packages.gz, Release and those files, or is it enough to provide the source-package files?
<ogra> only the source package files
<ogra> i.e. diff.gz, dsc, source.changes and orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> bye guys
<DanielN> ok. wasn't sure if it must be "repository compatible", thanks ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o DanielN]  by DanielN
<\sh> cu later gentlemen
<Nafallo> morning
<bddebian> Hello Nafallo
<koke> bradb: I'm trying to see more than 20 bugs per page but it seems not possible :(
<bradb> koke: i might change that today
<bradb> to 500 or something
<bradb> the only thing preventing me from doing it is concern that it might freak out sabdfl :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> and that's an irreversible changeset? ;-)
<koke> bradb: I mean this https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?batch_start=0&batch_end=60 doesn't work
<koke> have to go, sorry
<|QuaD->  beagle soon to work without mono :)
<|QuaD-> blah
<|QuaD-> without dbus
<|QuaD-> haha
<|QuaD-> beagle soon to work without dbus :)
<ogra> |QuaD-, see topic
<|QuaD-> ogra: i never complained
<|QuaD-> it was a comment
<koke_> is there any conflict if I upload a new revision of a package before the last one has been built?
<ogra> koke, yep, you should never do that
<ogra> either wait unitl it built or failed
<koke> ok
<koke> wll, it's an _all package so it's not going to be so painful ;)
<koke> hey, what happened to xosd??
<koke> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/446 <-- is this ok?
<ogra> err
<ogra> i recompiled it for the X transition, it worked since then....
<ogra> but thats months ago...
<koke> have to go
<koke> bye!
<herve> hi
<herve> so, the transhumance has begun
<herve> we're talking about serious business now :-)
<ivoks> is it broken yet? :
<ivoks> :)
<thom> ivoks: it's getting that way
<ivoks> yeah! we will have fun
<ivoks> my exams are over, i will have time :)
<herve> ivoks, good!
<herve> I'll be your fellow reviewer and uploader
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> but I will not do your part :)
<herve> I won't do yours either ;-)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> so we begin with tulip? zipios++?
<ivoks> zipos is allready merged
<ivoks> for others i don't knoe
<ivoks> know
<herve> good
<herve> erm
<herve> you sure?
<ivoks> about what?
<herve> I haven't seen the announce in changes
<ivoks> oh
<ivoks> it isn't merged :)
<ivoks> but doko said it's ok... acctually, he fixed it
<herve> let's leave it then
<ivoks> herve take a look at bug reports
<herve> tulip?
<ivoks> ok, tulip
<herve> url? :-)
<ivoks> for what?
<ivoks> no urls... only diff
<ivoks> you'll have to download source :)
<ivoks> herve you can find something on www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs
<ivoks> but i don't think they are any good
<herve> ho right
<herve> just one minute
<herve> I have to close a former project
<ivoks> flevour apt-get linux-source
<ivoks> ups.. :)
<herve> okay,
<herve> let the show begin!
<ivoks> hm... tulip...
<ivoks> that's not done yet, i think... wait a sec..
<herve> doko, ping
<|QuaD-> what exactly is tulip?
<ivoks> there are others :)
<herve> a package... we don't even know about what! :-)
<|QuaD-> lol
<|QuaD-> some things always confuse me thatare running
<|QuaD-> like what is multiload-apple
<ivoks> ah yes...
<ivoks> tulip doesn'
<ivoks> tulip doesn't compile with gcc-4
<herve> ivoks, I can't find the report for tulip in bugzilla
<|QuaD-> this is going to be a fun few weeks, with everything not compiling
<ivoks> herve that's because tulip isn't finished yet
<ivoks> herve look at packages that have bugreports
<herve> |QuaD-, needless to say don't upgrade... unless you like living on the edge of course!
<|QuaD-> herve: too late, already using breezy
<herve> ivoks, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=262959
<ivoks> |QuaD- do as I do: chmod -x `which apt-get` :)
<ivoks> herve thanks
<herve> |QuaD-, me too, but keep your instinct from taking your daily apt-get dose :-)
<|QuaD-> herve: haha, yeah
<|QuaD-> i really want them to put out a new gcc4.0 compiled kernel
<|QuaD-> so i can get vmware working again
<ivoks> herve nope, this patch will not solve the problem
<ivoks> herve but i could try...
<herve> is there some saved search or bookmark for getting all the transition reports?
<ivoks> this is gcc-3.4 patch
<herve> that old? :-)
<ivoks> yeah :) and it doesn't address file that has issues
<ivoks> DrawingTools.cpp:50: warning: minimum/maximum operators are deprecated
<herve> did we get unmaintained crack again?
<ivoks> on 30 lines :)
<ivoks> no, this is maintained package
<ivoks> last fix was in May :)
<ivoks> 4th of May :)
<herve> no, there are new upstream releases
<ivoks> check our changelog:
<ivoks>  * The "yet again" and "damn, I've missed sarge freeze :(" release.
<ivoks> :)
<herve> but the patch sure could help?
<herve> not solve, I understand it
<ivoks> ok, will give it a try
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> diff -urN ../tmp-orig/tulip-1.2.5
<ivoks> tulip 1.2.5?
<ivoks> this is 2.0.2
<ivoks> herve that patch has too many FAILED's for even trying to fix it :(
<ivoks> it is not for this tulip
<ivoks> hehe... funny name 'tulip' 'tulipan' is croatian word for on dumb flower :) and when you are calling someone dumb, you call him 'tulipan' :)
<Amaranth> |QuaD-: just change the /usr/bin/gcc symlink to gcc3.3 when you're setting up vmware
<ivoks> he should allways use gcc3.3
<ivoks> i had problems with compiling kernel with gcc4
<Amaranth> last i heard the kernel was the _last_ thing that would ever get transitioned
<|QuaD-> Amaranth: my kernel was built with 3.3.5, i have 3.3.6 on my pc :(
<ivoks> nice :)
<Amaranth> o_O
<Amaranth> ok, so use the 2.6.11.92 kernel
<|QuaD-> Amaranth: eh? won't that break my nvidia stuff
<Amaranth> oh, yeah
<Amaranth> you're fscked :P
<|QuaD-> :)
<|QuaD-> i would rather vmware b0rked then nvidia
<ivoks> everything breaks
<ivoks> hold ur apt-get
<Amaranth> everything breaks today
<Amaranth> but i have like 4 things on this computer that use C++ that i care about, so bleh
<ivoks> herve alive?!
<ivoks> maybe fedora has some patches for tulip :)
<Amaranth> has the c++ transition begun?
<ivoks> in redhat?
<Amaranth> i'd like to get one last apt-get in before i'm cut off for weeks
<Amaranth> no, in breezy
<|QuaD-> Amaranth: c++ transition?
<Amaranth> eek
<Amaranth> it has, g++ is 4.0 now
<|QuaD-> oh, yeah
<ivoks> hehe
<|QuaD-> i thought you mean from c++ to something/something to c++
<ivoks> let's apt-get update :)
* Amaranth holds off on the dist-upgrade and ignores update-notifier
<|QuaD-> i did recently
<ivoks> my notifier never lights :(
<|QuaD-> didn't break much
<herve> re
<ivoks> untill i do apt-get update
<|QuaD-> ivoks: do you upgrade right after updates?
<ivoks> yes
<Amaranth> ivoks: It runs apt-get update once a day or something, iirc.
<ivoks> ok
<|QuaD-> ivoks: reason is probably because it doesn't update on its own, and yo don't give it time after updates
<ivoks> heh... g++-4.0 i don't think so... :)
<Amaranth> ivoks: That's what I said and closed synaptic.
<ivoks> herve that bad? :)
<herve> gone eat
<ivoks> :))
<herve> erm erm...
<ivoks> bon apetit
<herve> are we supposed to build the packages in a chroot with doko's repository
<herve> even now?
<ivoks> thoes that aren't depending on any c2 lib, you can do in breezy
<ivoks> those that depend on c2 libs, well... you can't yet
<ivoks> Do you want to continue [Y/n] ? Y
<ivoks> go go go :)
<ivoks> hm... yacas is app
<ivoks> not library
<ivoks> ok, language, not app
<ivoks> i should only recompile it with g++-4
<ivoks> it doesn't need name change, does it?
<herve> an app? no
<herve> but deps bump, sure
<herve> if needed, of course
<herve> but we'll care about apps afterwards
<ivoks> deps should be tighten. that's ok
<herve> do you know how to "print" a constant in C++ preprocessing?
<herve> #echo __GNUC_MINOR__ ?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> nope :)
<herve> I think I found the tulip error
<ivoks> you think?
<tseng|work> does it have to be a macro?
<herve> tseng|work, nevermind
<herve> __GNUC__ and __GNUC_MINOR__
<herve> I guess it's simply 3.4 or 4.0
<ivoks>  (__GNUC__ < 3)
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> this looks ok to me...
<ivoks> herve if GNUC < 3 are tests
<herve> I need to add a test to 4.0
<ivoks> if  (__GNUC_MINOR__ < 4) this could be a problem
<ivoks> should be  if  (__GNUC__ == 3) && (__GNUC_MINOR__ < 4)
<herve> it thinks 4.4 is old
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> 3.4
<ivoks> it thinks 4.0 is old
<ivoks> :)
<herve> no 4.4 :-)
<herve> major is 3 or more
<herve> but minor must 4 or more to work
<ivoks> i'm talking about tulip/include/tulip/tulipconf.h
<ivoks> it checks only minor version, not major
<herve> sure it does
<ivoks> yes.. it does :)
<ivoks> sorry
<ivoks> i was greping :)
<herve> get another one while I dpatch the mess
<ivoks> i did :)
<ivoks> herve i did them around 15 :)
<herve> you're my hero :-)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i'm straight :)
<herve> that was not sexual at all! :-)
<ivoks> 20 packages
<DanielN> ogra, `when` is in MotuNewPackages now ;)
<ogra> good
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> herve, why are you still listed on MaintainerCandidates ?
<herve> ogra, I'll remove myself
<ogra> great :)
<DanielN> *g*
<ivoks> you can just do cw ivoks
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ivoks, you need to be a member first, AFAIK
<ogra> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hellas
<herve> ogra, there are other known motus on the page
<ivoks> :)
<herve> daniel \o/
<ogra> herve, while youre at it ;)...
<dholbach> hey ogra, herve :-)
<ivoks> BrianSutherland? brother of Mark?
<ogra> ivoks, why that ?
<herve> dholbach, I am doing the cxx transition in the end... :-)
<ogra> ivoks, the last names dont match :P
<ivoks> ah.. right :)))
<herve> ivoks, shuttleworth
<dholbach> herve: i'll try to do some on the list tonight
<ivoks> my hands were quicker than eyes
<ogra> :)
<herve> martin krafft applied for maintainership?
<herve> dholbach, your thesis first
<herve> ogra, I know some names but I'm not sure of their status
<dholbach> brb
<ogra> which ?
<herve> by the end of the document
<herve> \sh, for example :-)
<ivoks> lol \sh
<ivoks> Swap from Gentoo 2005.0 to Ubuntu Hoary 5.04
<ivoks> i did same transition :)
<herve> ivoks, I take tulip ownership, don't mind?
<ivoks> no, i allready removed my self
<ivoks> DanielN when is calendar?
* herve should suscribe to those pages
<DanielN> yep
<ivoks> DanielN hm, it isn't in debian and it has .deb on homepage :)
<DanielN> i know
<DanielN> :>
<ivoks> you recompiled package or...?
<DanielN> yes
<herve> DanielN, the upstream sources already have a debian/ dir?
<ivoks> DanielN why? :)
<ivoks> DanielN this one installs just fine :)
<DanielN> maybe
<DanielN> but i had fun ;)
<ivoks> it's nice app
<DanielN> yes .. simple but rocking
<DanielN> :)
<Amaranth> what app is that?
<DanielN> when
<ivoks> nice CLI calendar
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> now that's a weird name
<ivoks> it's called when
<ivoks> i agree :)
<ivoks> man page is funny
<ivoks>        When - a minimalistic personal calendar program
<ivoks> one would tought it's acronym...
<ivoks> but... it isn't :)
<DanielN> man page is from the upload-source
<DanielN> not written by me
<ivoks> DanielN i installed upstream deb :)
<DanielN> from where? (disturbed ^^)
<ivoks> http://www.lightandmatter.com/when/when.html
<DanielN> ok
<ivoks> how many of you use wget? :)
<DanielN> me :)
<DanielN> you can try my when deb too ;>
<ivoks> http://www.xemacs.org/People/hrvoje.niksic/ he did it :)
<ivoks> uh, no deb... :)
<DanielN> ...
<herve> ivoks, tulip still compiling...
<ivoks> herve it will take hour or two
<herve> :-D
<herve> I'll burn my laptop!
<ogra> what is tulip ?
<ivoks> tulipan
<herve> :-)
<herve> ogra, a broken c++ lib
<ogra> ah
<ivoks> i wonder rdepends
<ogra> ah, graph library
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> only tulip depends on it
<ivoks> man...!!!!! greeeeeeewrgewrgwerg
<ivoks> mosquitos... uhhhh
<ivoks> ok, who decides on morgue candidats?
<dholbach> ivoks: once the list is a bit fuller, we can decide in a motu meeting and then pass the list to elmo who double-check the rdepends of those packages
<ivoks> ok
<herve> ok, I can't find any note for changelogs of cxx transitions
<ivoks> ?
<herve> do we need to follow a scheme?
<ivoks> i did: CXX transition: renaming .... to ....
<herve> for the bug yes
<herve> but I don't know for the debian/changelog
<ivoks> that
<ivoks> that's for changelog
<dholbach> in the changelog you describe what you changed
<dholbach> be brief but explicit and you don't need a scheme there
<ivoks> CXX transition: Rename libxerces25 to libxerces25c2,
<ivoks> this is doko scheme
<ivoks> i did the same
<dholbach> ok
<ivoks> ogra did same too
<ivoks> he added chaning distribution
<ivoks> that's something that's allready in changelog, isn't it?
<ogra> yep, where i changed it i described it :)
<herve> libtulip-2.0 becomes libtulip-2.0c2
<herve> or... nothing, nevermind :-)
<ivoks> that's right
<DanielN> afk
<herve> and libtulip-ogl-2.0 becomes libtulip-ogl-2.0c2 or libtulipc2-ogl-2.0
<herve> ?
<ivoks> ok... i'll go on tse3
<ivoks> first option
<herve> this transition seems easier than expected
<ivoks> -2.0.2c2
<ivoks> :)
<herve> thanks ivoks
<ivoks> of course it easy... i did 20 packages :)
<dholbach> wait if stuff compiles and works nicely :-)
<dholbach> there's a lot to break
<herve> ivoks, mine is worth your 20 ;-)
<ivoks> i'm sure it is
<ivoks> herve did u fix debian/control?
<ivoks> Conflits, Replaces, Depends?
<ivoks> :)
<herve> I am, hence my questions :-)
<herve> tulip_2.0.2-4ubuntu1.dsc failed to process: Format args for invalid-arch-in-b-d don't match Description. (0 vs 1)
<tseng|work> ogra: can we postpone moving mono then
<ogra> tseng|work, looks like we have to
<tseng|work> i can keep moving with monodevelop stuff now
<tseng|work> just need to wait on dbus stuff
<ogra> tseng|work, wait, look at -meeting
<tseng|work> i am looking
<ogra> tseng|work, so do we want it now ?
<ivoks>  /bin/sh: --enable-shared: command not found
<ivoks> omg! how did this package go to debian!?
<tseng|work> ogra: eh, not if i cant upload?
<tseng|work> that wouldnt make sense to me
<ogra> oki
* herve made is first cxx transition patch :-)
<tseng|work> yuck
<herve> ivoks, if you knew what I saw...
<ivoks> what? :)
<herve> so we just open patches, don't upload anything?
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> afaik
<ivoks> i can't upload, so i don't think about that
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> AM_ENABLE_SHARED' not found in library
<ivoks> what could this be?
<ivoks> it's on aclocal-1.4
* herve gazing at our masters of the masters...
<herve> ivoks, need to regenerate a new one?
<tseng|work> i might also shorten the list of packages to move to main ogra
<ogra> yep, thats a good plan
<ivoks> herve ?
<herve> ivoks, auto* stuff
<ivoks> how?
<herve> you're asking me too much :-)
<ivoks> :)
<tseng|work> ogra: i just dont know if the 2.0 stuff will make it "stable" before breezy is out the door
<ogra> if the stuff we have runs stable its fine
<tseng|work> it does but its not guaranteed ABI stable
<ivoks> i'm too tierd to do any work now
<ogra> i dont really care about version numbers as long as it works....
<tseng|work> I care about the ABI
<herve> ivoks, you deserved rest for sure :-)
<ivoks> herve so... will u review my packages? (you should put link on bugzilla)
<ogra> tseng|work, hmm, true, we talk about main
<herve> ivoks, url? :-p
<ajmitch> morning
<tseng|work> hi ajmitch
<ivoks> herve :)))
<tseng|work> did you sample my crack?
<ivoks> herve i was talking about cxx transition
<herve> morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> no chance yet :P
<herve> ivoks, me too!
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
* ajmitch has to slip time down little cracks at the moment
<tseng|work> uni is bogus
<ivoks> herve https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/CxxLibraryList :p
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, tseng|work
<tseng|work> dholbach: !!!!
<ajmitch> daniel!
<ivoks> herve everything you need is there... links to diff's
<dholbach> hey :-)
<herve> ivoks, anyone? okay
<ajmitch> tseng|work: grabbing them now
<tseng|work> ogra isnt it a month until next TB?
<tseng|work> every 2 weeks rotated with CC
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> herve anyone
<tseng|work> suck!
<ajmitch> I thought they fit in CC & TB every other week?
<ajmitch> so that there's still one meeting per week
<ogra> tseng|work, err
<ogra> tseng|work, what ajmitch said indeed
<tseng|work> oh
<tseng|work> ok then.
* ajmitch wonders if he should step forward for main upload rights?
<herve> ivoks, looking at 10852
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> ajmitch: i tried to today :-)
<dholbach> ajmitch: the TB was not complete. so bad luck for me :-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: yeah, that's a shame that you didn't get int
<ajmitch> next time! :)
<dholbach> yeah of course
<ajmitch> you've already been approved, at least :)
<herve> ivoks, I feel like you remove too much things
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> i didn't remove anything
<ivoks> only renamed files
<ivoks> and some fix in rules and control
<herve> ha no, sorry
<herve> prerm renamed
<herve> a flaw of the diff format :-)
<herve> ivoks, looks fine then
<herve> and it reminded me I forgot some things in my own patch!
<ivoks> :) of course
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> renaming files? :)
<herve> *.files yes
<ivoks> hm
<herve> so what now?
<ivoks> then it didn't build right
<herve> I mean, before going to bed
<herve> I haven't tried yet
<herve> too late for tonight
<ivoks> you allready fixed it?
<herve> I can only guess
<herve> it compiled almost an hour without error
<herve> but my machine was at 70 C
<ivoks> i know the feeling :)
<herve> I would have failed anyway :-(
<herve> I see main is having another transition ;-)
<herve> well, good night all
<ivoks> night
<herve> we'll see if the universe falls apart this night :-)
<herve> ++
<ajmitch> another transition? what one is this?
<ivoks> i'm going to bed too..
<ivoks> bye all
<ajmitch> bye ivoks
<ivoks> if i'm not wrong... it's X
<ivoks> Setting up x-dev (6.8.99.7-1) ...
<ivoks> 6.8.99
<ajmitch> ah
<thom> x is likely to break into lots of little pieces
<ajmitch> that shouldn't require transitioning universe packages
<thom> modularisation
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> there are still plenty of packages that just build-dep on xlibs-dev
<ivoks> now, for real and last time today - good night/morning/day/whatever
<siretart> hi folks
<dholbach> hey siretart
<ajmitch> hello siretart
<siretart> reading the backlog, reviewing the maintainer candidates hasn't started yet, did it?
<siretart> hi dholbach, hi mitch!
<dholbach> siretart: they won't
<ogra> siretart, postponed
<siretart> postponed? oh
<dholbach> because the TB isn't nearly complete
<siretart> oh. I understand
<lamont> siretart: ENOQUORUM
<siretart> lamont: I'm sorry?
<siretart> ah, no Quorum. now :)
<lamont> TB lacked quorum
<siretart> are the sources for scott's merge-o-matic available somewhere?
<siretart> gnarf
<dholbach> siretart: i so completely understand you today
<siretart> this was for my crashing irssi
<ajmitch> dholbach: having some issues?
<dholbach> it isn't even c++ :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> ajmitch: just nautilus and firefox
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch ought to start rolling patches for dholbach to review :)
<ajmitch> yay, packages that don't do make clean properly
<therning> how do people develop for Breezy? install it on a separate partion and boot into it, or do you use some other way (UML, vmWare, or something)?
<ajmitch> I don't have hoary anymore
<siretart> apropos reviewing. anyone having time to review 2 packages for me?
<ajmitch> just breezy on my systems, and anything that might really break things is done in a chroot
<ajmitch> siretart: I can take a look
<siretart> great!
<siretart> ajmitch: the first, easy one is here: http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/keychain/
<therning> ajmitch: I'm not really confident enough in breezy yet
<siretart> should just be a dependency adjustment
<ajmitch> siretart: looks to be a new upstream version?
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> therning: wait a bit ... at least until the c++ transition is over :-)
<siretart> ajmitch: a new "debian" upstream version, with merging from bugzilla
<ajmitch> siretart: ah ok
<ajmitch> yes, I have it in my merge TODO list :)
<therning> dholbach: I'm not considering ditch Hoary at all until Breezy is released, but I'd still like to play a little with it (help out in MOTU :)
<siretart> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9416 is the relevant link
<siretart> ajmitch: the second one is http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/poker3d/. this is my first CXXTransistion, I hope I did everthing right
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<siretart> hi tseng
<tseng> wow lag
<ajmitch> great, looks like manoj's dpkg patch applies nearly cleanly to the new dpkg 1.13
<siretart> what is that patch for?
<ajmitch> SELinux
<siretart> ah. great!
<ajmitch> yeah, it was the last major core package to get done
<ajmitch> uhoh, X breakage
<dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
<siretart> good night, dholbach!
<ajmitch> night dholbach
* siretart wonders where Corey did get that list of games..
<ajmitch> siretart: for keychain, I believe it is best to depend on a virtual | real package
<ajmitch> eg, ssh-client | openssh-client
<siretart> ajmitch: thats a good idea. will prepare a new package
<dholbach> *wave*
<siretart> ajmitch: keychain updated (same revision, same place)
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<ajmitch> proxy must have cached it..
<siretart> gnarf
<siretart> ajmitch: are you at poker3d?
<ajmitch> gettind a round tuit :P
<siretart> tuit?
<ogra> tuit :)
<siretart> ?
<ajmitch> they're elusive things..
<ogra> ajmitch, swallow before speaking ;)
<ajmitch> very hard to find, which is why nothing ever gets done ;)
<tseng> hi
<siretart> hi tseng
<tseng> better.
<siretart> :)
<ogra> :)
<tseng> hm lets upload some mono
<ogra> yay
<siretart> ajmitch: if not, let's do I tomorrow, I need to get up early tomorrow :(
<siretart> s/ I / it /
<ajmitch> siretart: it's a large download for the .orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> which takes quite awhile for me
<siretart> oh. yes. thats right
<siretart> basically I renamed the two libs with a c2 suffix
<siretart> but I'm not quite sure if that's necessary. no other package outside the source package depend on that libs
<ajmitch> conflicts, replaces, depends, build-depends, shlibs?
<ajmitch> ok..
<siretart> I havn't touched shlibs.
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-25
<siretart> rules is using dh_shlibdeps, so I think they should be handled automatically
<ajmitch> it's more that some libraries have an shlibs file that needs changed
<siretart> ah. ic. no, this package seems to be ok
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, I'll look over it tomorrow, I guess :)
<siretart> alright
<abarbaccia> hey guys - who determines the numbers of the ubuntu releases?  5.04 and 5.10?
<abarbaccia> is that 5 for 2005
<tseng> yes
<abarbaccia> and 4 for april and 10 for october?
<tseng> and the month
<abarbaccia> cute
<nmorse> anyone here have an ali5451 sound card?
<ogra> nmorse, please use #ubuntu for support requests
<JDahl> I am packaging a python package I am working on, and I am wondering if I have to provide the source for the documentation, or if I can just copy html and ps files to /usr/share/doc
(tseng/#ubuntu-motu) http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303194
<tseng> shrug
<Burgundavia> tseng, has the functionality of checking feeds at startup been removed?
<tseng> "functionality"?
<tseng> yes
<Burgundavia> why?
<tseng> beats me
<Burgundavia> ok
<tseng> the author tried to treat me like joe dubmass user when i was reporting a real bug
<tseng> so
<tseng> ask him yourself :P
<Burgundavia> very odd, as when you startup blam, you shouldn't need to click the button for it to do something
<tseng> turned out he was the clueless one in the end, anyway
<Burgundavia> the muine guy and I have disagreed on bugs as well
<tseng> well thats different
<tseng> jorn owns your face
<tseng> (and knows what you are talking about)
<tseng> woo gtk-sharp-2 successful
<tseng> on all archs
<ogra> wow
<tseng> now i have to build gecko and gtksourceview again
<ogra> heh, gecko ?
<tseng> gecko-sharp2
<ogra> ah, yep
<tseng> i think thats all I can do without dbus and cxx freeze
<tseng> after those build we can do MD
<ogra> then lest see that CXX is done soon...
<tseng> heh
<tseng> im guessing i dont have barely any cxx on my system besides blam
<tseng> im sure daniel, andrew, and jorge will try to race to get the most fixes in
<`crimsun> gotta run, night all
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<tseng> hi
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ogra: you guys are doing a rocking job with all things mono
<Unfrgiven> keep up the great work guys
<tseng> thanks.
<tseng> we are so hard
<ogra> heh
<Unfrgiven> :)
<tseng> i hope i get approved for main
<ogra> tseng, sure, why not ?
<tseng> i dunno, im not the best guy around
<schweeb> how's the CXX migration going
<Unfrgiven> tseng: any update on tomboy? as in when should we expect the package to be installable? currently it has some unsatisfied dependencies
<tseng> eh
<tseng> mono needs to go to main so we can build the dbus mono bindings
<tseng> which looks like > 2 weeks from now
<tseng> hm i need to set up irssi to log everything
<tseng> or a subset
<ogra> Unfrgiven, seen the topic ? :)
<tseng> blah
<tseng> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<tseng>   mozilla-firefox-dev: Depends: firefox-dev but it is not going to be installed
<ogra> oh, yeah, we dropped the mozilla-firefox(-dev) packages :)
<tseng> yes
<ogra> so from now on its just firefox and firefox-dev
<ogra> which obviously contains a bit of c++ :(
<tseng> yeah but thats ok
<tseng> its already through
* tseng uploads fix
<tseng> i guess neither of my roomates are coming home today
<schweeb> tseng: irssi is pretty easy to set up to log
* tseng goes to dinner with himself
<tseng> schweeb: dude tell me when I get back
<tseng> schweeb: and watch my buildLogs for me
<tseng> schweeb: fix all the bugs
<schweeb> rol
<schweeb> no
<schweeb> I'm gonna go watch star wars 3 in a couple hrs
<schweeb> /set autolog on
<schweeb> then I believe a /save after that should do it
<schweeb> you may have to do a /log open
<schweeb> or /log start
<tseng> eh
* tseng dinner
<Unfrgiven> ogra: no i hadn't seen the topic :) i wasn't complaining. just asking a question
<Unfrgiven> but your point is well made :)
<ogra> :)
<Unfrgiven> schweeb: where are you from? im seein star wars tonight as well
<schweeb> MI
<Unfrgiven> MI = ?
<Unfrgiven> :)
<schweeb> Michigan, USA
<Unfrgiven> ah i c
<Unfrgiven> so you're going to some preview screening?
<schweeb> yep
<Unfrgiven> kewl :)
<blueyed> I've patched the source of openssl and used "debian/rules (build|binary)" to get an udeb file. I think I should bump the version somehow so that I can upgrade the existing installed package. Is this the way to go? I cannot reinstall the existing package, because I'm on the server with ssl and don't want to risk not being able to login again.
<blueyed> ok. nevermind. udeb was wrong.. ;)
<tseng> schweeb: are my logs going to rotate out and be dated?
<tseng> schweeb: it doesnt look that way atm
<schweeb> tseng: no, no log rotation... you can use the set command to add a `date +blah` to the filename
<schweeb> I believe
<schweeb> and just so everyone knows, Star Wars ep3 rocks.
<Amaranth> grr
<Amaranth> how did you see it already?
<Lathiat> yeh doesnt sceen here for like another 10 hours
<schweeb> employee only screening at the movie theatre
<schweeb> my sister works there
* Lathiat shoots schweeb 
<Lathiat> i should get a job at a cinema
<abarbaccia> hey guys - i've been running breezy and right now its telling me it can't find the GTK configure script
<\sh> morning everybody
<abarbaccia> morning!?!! It's 3AM here!
<abarbaccia> which is why im going to sleep
<\sh> well, here is 08:32pm ;)
<\sh> aeh 8:32am ;)
<motaboy> Hi to all!
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
<DanielN> morning :)
<\sh> now this must be explained
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  2688 May 18 08:08 libqssl-dev_2.0-1ubuntu1_hurd-i386.deb
<\sh> -rw-r--r--  1 shermann shermann  2154 May 18 08:08 libqssl2_2.0-1ubuntu1_hurd-i386.deb
<\sh> how can this happen?
<DanielN> lol
<\sh> it's not funny ;) I think I'm the only one who is running hurd under breezy ,-)
<DanielN> hurd?
<DanielN> is that "thing" of software useable? ;)
<\sh> DanielN: as you can see yes ;)
<DanielN> how stable is it?
<\sh> it's building fine with g++4 and likes me
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> nice to hear
<HostingGeek> DanielN: They still need to port GNU/Hello to it
<Treenaks> \sh: at least, for now
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: wasn't GNU Hello the base for hurd?
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: LOL Have you tried using hurd?
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: it was just on slashdot a few weeks ago saying they still haven't ported GNU/Hello
<Lathiat> GNU/Hello ?
<HostingGeek> lamont: hello --help
<Treenaks> HostingGeek: I've stopped blieving slashdot a looong time ago
<HostingGeek> in terminal
<Lathiat> last time i tried hurd, it kernel panicked if you hit the keyboard on boot. :)
<Lathiat> s/on/during
<HostingGeek> Treenaks: It was linked to hurd.org
<thom> tseng: that's why there's a moz-ffox-dev dummy package, but i bet elmo didn't promote it
<elmo> thom: I promoted what was seeded, directly or indirectly
<elmo> if I didn't promote moz-ffox-dev, it wasn't, and you need to fix that ..
<thom> ah well
<thom> yeah, i figured.
<thom> I'm not sure it's worth it, tbh - i'd rather see people just change them
<\sh> thom: u check the package of ser?
<thom> \sh: not yet; firefox vulns again :(
<\sh> thom: oh...
<Lathiat> bugger
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Burgundavia] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in h | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks
<Burgundavia> crap
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:thom] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | => http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaloneUniverseWishList <= | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | Please dont complain about mono deps for next 2 weeks
<Burgundavia> thanks
<Burgundavia> sorry
<tseng> ogra: gtk-apt-whatever-unstable shouldnt get pulled in anymore, yeah
<tseng> ogra: replaced by *2-unstable
<tseng> so is X totally broken for anyone else?
<tsume> breezy rocks ;)
<tseng> i had to put exit at the top of init.d/gdm to even get to a console
<ogra> tseng, hmm, might be one of my selfcompiled packages, i'm cleaning up
<Burgundavia> tseng, I haven't bothered restarted, but I am hearing evidence to that effect
<Lathiat> tseng: yeh daniels is breaking it
<Burgundavia> from non-forum sources
<Lathiat> apparently theres a fix in the pipelines but it hasnt hit the archives yet
<tseng> ogra: no its hoary stuff
<ogra> tseng, yeah, but probably my own build of it
<tseng> ogra: i had the same message
<ogra> ah, ok
<tseng> im not sure if there is a fix?
<tseng> besides dropping one off the mirrors and putting it in notes
<ogra> add a conflict to the packages
<tseng> k
<tseng> can i conflict with one and drop it?
<tseng> it was never in debian
<ogra> i guess so
<tseng> ok.
<tseng> isnt there a "replaces"
<tseng> or is that rpm
<ogra> there is a "replaces" but you might still need the "conflicts" to get it clean
<tseng> k.
<ogra> tseng, it was worth it ;)
<ogra> blam seems to run stable now :)
<Treenaks> ogra: debian stable? :P
<ogra> Treenaks, stable stable :P
<ogra> as in , it didnt crash yet :)
<Treenaks> ;)
<siretart> hi
<siretart> Burgundavia: ping
<ogra> meh, but ff is a bad crasher for me....
<thom> ogra: yes
<thom> for everyone on breezy right now
<thom> a debug build is thrashing my system right this second
<ogra> most of the sites work fine....
<thom> BreezyGoals will crash it every time for me
<thom> and clicking livejournal links, oddly enough
<ogra> breezy golas works here, but www.heise.de crashes after one or two clicks
<ogra> goals even
<thom> ogra: sorry, editing BG
<ogra> ah, yes
<ogra> An investigation of the contents of the external drain of 6 Petworth Street, Cambridge
<ogra> LOL
<Burgundavia> siretart, salut
<thom> weee
<thom> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
<thom> [Switching to Thread 46912546377712 (LWP 21008)] 
<thom> 0x00002aaaacc7b285 in free () from /lib/libc.so.6
<ogra> hmm, doko's fault ?
<Lathiat> woo
<thom> there's something weird in there; it's totally smashing the stack
<\sh> re
<ogra> tseng, generating monodoc search index...
<ogra> ** (/usr/lib/monodoc/browser.exe:10639): WARNING **: _wapi_timestamp_exclusion: Breaking a previous timestamp
<ogra> thats what i get on monodoc installation
<Burgundavia> siretart, pongalong
<ivoks> doko: take a better look :)
<ivoks> doko: i removed useless debian patch wich creates config.sub in source
<ivoks> doko: and then, in rules, it copies that same files from /usr/share/misc/
<\sh> re
<ivoks> \sh: hi
<doko> ivoks?
<ivoks> doko: xclass
<ogra> woah
<ogra> evince gets .ppt support
<Treenaks> ogra: yeah, it's becoming VERY cool
<ogra> yep
<ogra> :)
<Lathiat> indeed
<Lathiat> much nicer to read pdfs now
<Treenaks> Lathiat: and blazingly fast
<Lathiat> now all we need is a presentation creator in gnome office... :)
<Lathiat> Treenaks: i find it a little slow and re-rendering when i zoom but otherwise its good.
<siretart> sorry, boss was in the room
<Treenaks> evince should also handle .doc and .xls imho.. at the same speed
<Lathiat> at last it stretches and then rerenders
<Burgundavia> lol
<Burgundavia> siretart, what do you need to talk about?
<Treenaks> so I can just VIEW a doc file, instead of having to start OOo or abiword
<Lathiat> yeh thatd be nice
<Lathiat> altho abiword isnt too taxing to start, but yes
<Burgundavia> those would need an edit button
<Treenaks> Lathiat: yes, I've noticed that, it only antialiases when you stop resizing
<tsume> pyBeagle :) yumm
<Lathiat> which is fine just unfortunately its a little slow when it does so
<doko> ivoks: why not just remove that one? diff -u xclass-0.8.3/debian/patches/xclass_0.6.2-5.1.diff xclass-0.8.3/debian/patches/xclass_0.6.2-5.1.diff
<Treenaks> Lathiat: it's annoying to browse through stuff in abiword without editing the file
<tsume> or just beagle written in C++, whichever :)
<siretart> Burgundavia: have you seen, I've done some remarks to the games you listed on MOTUGames
<Burgundavia> siretart, I just throw them up there. No comment on their underlying code
<ivoks> doko: you could do that, or we could fix that deb while we are repackaging...
<siretart> Burgundavia: where did you get that list?
<Burgundavia> siretart, my head mostly
<Burgundavia> siretart, I have run glest on my machine
<Burgundavia> there is a very active linux port
<doko> ivoks: I don't care about the file in the deb, but let's keep the patch to the needed things
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i'll upload a new one then
<siretart> Burgundavia: ah, the website state there was no linux port. ok
<Burgundavia> siretart, there are even source packages
<ivoks> wftk is fixed
<siretart> Burgundavia: huh? have to relook tonight
<Burgundavia> siretart, http://apt.linex.org/dists/cl/juegalinex/source/
<Burgundavia> siretart, there
<siretart> Burgundavia: in what way did gtetrinet. gnome-mud and xconq call for help?
<tsume> hmmm...
<Lathiat> sigh, people keep putting there packages at the top of the ToReview list
<siretart> Burgundavia: a, thanks for the link, will review it
<Burgundavia> siretart, the first 2 on p.g.o
<Burgundavia> siretart, the latter on happypenguin
<siretart> Burgundavia: could you please add some links to the wiki page, so others can follow the call?
<Burgundavia> siretart, sure, I will dig around
<siretart> allright. thanks!
<womble> Lathiat: Just review from the bottom instead... <grin>
<Lathiat> the problem is im waiting for a review rathe rthan reviwing. :)
<ivoks> doko: uploaded
<siretart> back to work.
<tsume> hmmm
<tsume> should Lucene be written in C first? then library made for C++ and python?
<tsume> hmmm
<ajmitch> Lathiat: we'll get around to it asap :)
* ajmitch goes off to sleep, sorry for not staying around much this week :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: from the bottom, thanks. :)
<doko> ogra:
<doko> make[3] : Entering directory `/home/doko/src/unicon-3.0.4/unicon/server'
<doko> g++ -fPIC -g -Wall -I. -I../include -c TLS_HzInput.cpp -o TLS_HzInput.o
<doko> In file included from TLS_HzInput.cpp:32:
<doko> ./TLS_AsciiConvertor.hpp:32:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
<doko> make[3] : *** [TLS_HzInput.o]  Error 1
<ogra> uii
<ogra> i didnt remove dependencys ;)
<ogra> i'll add it :)
<doko> while trying to decide, if the package should be renamed at all (it's app?)
<doko> ogra: but you didn't test-build ;-P
<ogra> not yet...
<ogra> i'll start in an hour or so...
<ogra> leave them out...
<ogra> and lets move unicon to the apps page ;)
<ivoks> hm
<ivoks> apt-cache search libglu-dev-xorg
<ivoks> gives me nothing
<ivoks> there is no such package
<ivoks> build dep: xlibmesa-glu-dev  -> libglu-dev-xorg (>= 6.8.2-11)
<Burgundavia> siretart, sourceforge says zlib/libpng, which I can't find it not being dfsg free
<doko> ivoks: it's not yet in the archives
<ivoks> doko: ok, it depends on xlibmesa-gl-dev
<ivoks> not glu-dev
<Burgundavia> siretart, I see now. Very ick and very stupid on there part
<ivoks> jesus... thunderstorm over here :(
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
<siretart> Burgundavia: you are talking about cube, are you?
<siretart> Burgundavia: I know of tries packaging it for debian, but the licence situation for cube is actually a mess
<siretart> Burgundavia: the author works alone and does accept patches. a friend of mine has forked it and improved it with unix specific patches, so e.g. that the config file is in the users home instead of the program dir, which seems to be usual for windows systems
<siretart> Burgundavia: atm he is porting it to amd64, and preparing a more serious distribution, being plain dfsg free. I therefore cannot recommend packaging cube
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> re
<DanielN> dholbach: how long does it take (average) until a package gets reviewed?
<DanielN> wan't stress, just interests me :)
<dholbach> DanielN: when i have my thesis finished (in 3 months) i can get give reliable dates and times
<dholbach> and i can just speak for me
<ogra> DanielN, i'm doing a review day once a week ...
<DanielN> ok
<DanielN> thanks :)
<DanielN> whats a thesis btw? :)
<ogra> diplomarbeit
<DanielN> ouke .. thanks :>
<DanielN> but anyway, i think i'll build my package again and again and again .. :)
<thom> ogra,dholbach: are you seeing crashy firefox only on amd64?
<ogra> nope
<thom> ogra: bugger
<thom> well, actually that's not so bad
<thom> but i can't crash it on i386
<thom> ogra: is there a particular page on heise that crashes for you?
<ogra> the first link in the list on the left, sometimes only if i go one link further on the next site
<thom> 7 tage news?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> germanys /.
<thom> ah
* thom dusts his german off and goes to read heise
<ogra> hehe
<DanielN> switzerlands /. www.symlink.ch
<DanielN> :>
<ogra> lets see if it crashes...
<ogra> then my conclusion would be that the new ff doesnt like news
<thom> very interesting article on free pascal
<ogra> symlink works here btw...
<thom> cor, and it's available on netware
<thom> rock on
<DanielN> :>
<ogra> wahhh
* ogra cries...
<ogra> 1 click crsher...
<thom> i can't get it to crash at all :(
<thom> ssucks to be me
<ogra> hrm
<thom> ogra: i'll stick debug packages up for you in a second; i can't get this to crash
<ogra> ok, i'll try them
<dholbach> thom: especially when you edit wiki pages - firefox doesnt seem to like it :-)
<ogra> dholbach, we talk abou i386
<ogra> t
<dholbach> i know...
<dholbach> bbl
<thom> well, i just edited BreezyGoals with the debug packages just fine#
<thom> and that was crashing all the time with the normal packages
<thom> *sigh*
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> sounds strange...
<thom> the article on cuba in heise is interesting#
<ogra> yep
<thom> i reckon it's bad optimisation, actually. might play around a bit with the options
<ivoks> what page?
<ogra> ivoks, ?
<ivoks> what's crashing?
<ogra> http://www.heise.de/ with the new ff build...
<ivoks> eh...
<ivoks> and mozilla?
<thom> just firefox afaik#
<ivoks> oh, lol
<ivoks> clients are caling, they can't go on internet...
<ivoks> i say, wtf.... i can't get to the routers...
<ivoks> they can ping it, get IP from DHCP and everything is working, only internet doesn't )
<ivoks> one ADSL central was hit by lightning and now one part of town doesn't have ADSL :)
<DanielN> LOL
<ivoks> uh..
<ivoks> i didn't know debootstrap is so good
<ivoks> so... anything broken yet?
<DanielN> hm sorry
<DanielN> i've got a question about the wiki
<ivoks> yes?
<DanielN> i added a package to MOTUNewPackages, then i wrote my wiki page.. and now im in subtopic of MOTUNewPackages :)
<DanielN> and I don't know why
<ivoks> erase it
<ivoks> same thing happend to me
<DanielN> i can't erase it, this part with the link isn't in the edit-form (but i can delete the link from the MOTU page of course)
<ivoks> heh...
<DanielN> no, that's a subtopic too, can't delet that
<ivoks> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... stoopid, stoopid
<ivoks> i erased my .bashrc :)
<ogra> ivoks, just use your backup ;)
<ivoks> yeah, i did :)
<ivoks>  /etc/skel :)
<ogra> heh
<thom> ivoks: see, a perfect opportunity to move to a real shell ;-)
<ivoks> i agree
<ivoks> i was just thinkg of zsh...
<ivoks> what's better? zhs or csh?
<ivoks> or.. something else?
<Mithrandir> csh is dead.  And harmful.
<Mithrandir> zsh is nice.
<ivoks> tcsh?
<thom> EWW RUN AWAY
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks>  > and >> needs update
<ivoks>  > should inform you that it will erase your file :)
<ivoks> god knows how many times in a hury i did that silly mistake...
<Mithrandir> set -o noclobber
<ivoks> nice one :)
<thom> ogra: http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/firefox-debug/ ; grab firefox and firefox-gnome-support and see if you have any joy
<ivoks> thom: can i too?
<thom> ivoks: are you seeing it crash?
<thom> if so, sure. run as mozilla-firefox -g ; if not, i wouldn't bother#
<ivoks> i have old 1.0.2
<thom> it's built against breezy
<ivoks> woho! :) downloading...
<thom> it also has full debug on and is unstripped, so don't expect it to be much fun
<thom> and, um, why not just download from breezy?
<ogra> thom give me a momnet, i'm just upgrading my future buildd from warty....
<ivoks> thom: mozilla-firefox is already the newest version.
<thom> ivoks: firefox
<ivoks> ok, this is something new...
<ivoks> does zsh have vi-style binding?
<thom> yes
<ivoks> great :)
<ivoks> apt-get install zsh-doc
<ivoks> heise.de works for me without problems
<doko> ivoks, ogra: please could you upload the packages I marked with pendingupload?
<ivoks> i don't think i can upload?
<doko> ivoks: ok, then could you please put the source_changes, dsc and diff.gz files somewhere, so ogra can upload them?
<ivoks> ok
<ogra_d> yep, give me the url
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs
<ivoks> but i have to upload them first...
<ogra_d> yep
<herve> what is going on in breezy-changes? :-)
<herve> doko, I tried an upload of mine but it was refused
<herve> I tried too early?
<doko> wait ...
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm.. internal server error on bugzilla :)
<herve> hi ivoks
<herve> I saw on of your transition made it :-)
<herve> s/on/one
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> there will be more :))
<ivoks> ogra: you don't need .orig.tar.gz?
<ogra_d> nope, not for this changes
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> since the roiginal source wasnt changed, thats the advantage of a non-native package ;)
<herve> *hint*
<herve> is dput right to prevent me from uploading the same source package I already tried?
<ogra> yep, it logs the upload
<Mithrandir> herve: if you actually want to upload again, remove the .upload file.
<Mithrandir> dupload does the same thing, iirc
<herve> thanks Mithrandir
<herve> I wondered where it logged it
<ivoks> ogra: i uploaded two packages... 18 more to go :)
<ogra> yep, seeing them rushing in
<Mithrandir> herve: of course, if it's already uploaded or a newer version exists in the archive it'll be rejected, but I guess you knew that.
<herve> ivoks, uploaded... not in breezy? :-)
<ivoks> herve: on my http
<herve> Mithrandir, it was rejected because the cxx transition blocked my package
<herve> I don't feek like it would be harmful now the uploads are open
<ivoks> hm... only one more :(
<ivoks> doko: could you check omniorb4, wftk and openscenegraph (this one depends on libgl, not libglu)?
<ivoks> doko: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10787 is still unconfirmed
<herve> don't push more pressure on doko than necessary :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok, sorry
<ivoks> xclass is unconfirmed too :)
<doko> herve: uploads are enabled again
<herve> doko, I can safely push the same revision?
<herve> I am still talking about the cxx transition
<ivoks> oh, how it's going to break :)
<herve> let's first break everything
<herve> and then glue the parts together ;-)
<doko> ivoks: xmpi: the dot at the end of the short description is wrong. lintian should complain about it
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> ok now? :)
<ivoks> grrr..
<ivoks> it isn't
<ivoks> now it's ok
<herve> packages['herve'] ++
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> ok, converted to zsh :)
<crimsun_> zsh++
<ivoks> zshc2
<crimsun_> ick
<crimsun_> :)
<ivoks> depends on libc6 (>= 2.56.78-95,4ubuntu33,2)
<ogra> heh
* crimsun_ runs screaming from #kubuntu for the 'b' word
<ivoks> b word?
<crimsun_> oh geez, not in #ubuntu, too!
<ivoks> backports?
<crimsun_> yeah
<ivoks> lol.. they are backporting from breezy?
<crimsun_> or newer
<crimsun_> it's crazy
<ivoks> heh, oh, how much disapointed faces we will see :)
<willis> join #ubuntu
<ivoks> ;)
<herzi> can so. please veryfy that cantus3 is broken (read: doesn't start)
<herzi> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey herzi
<blueyed> I've created a patched .deb file of the ssh package (from source) and installed using "dpkg -i". Unfortunately "apt-get upgrade" wants to upgrade to the current/same binary version of openssh-server again. Why?
<herzi> [18:31]  herzi@wallace: ~ > cantus3
<herzi> cantus3: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/cantus3/tag2filename.so: undefined symbol: _Z19cantushash_set_charP11_GHashTablePKcS2_
<herzi> this does not look like a breezy-related bug
<Amaranth> oh, the dbus stuff broke beagle too :/
<doko> tulip_2.herve: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tulip/2.0.2-4ubuntu1/tulip_2.0.2-4ubuntu1_20050518-2012-amd64-failed.bz2
<doko> herve: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tulip/2.0.2-4ubuntu1/tulip_2.0.2-4ubuntu1_20050518-2012-amd64-failed.bz2
<lamont> also opencv
<lamont> in both cases, casts a pointer to an int.  very bad...
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-26
<tseng> so.. how do I make my X start again
<tseng> i have no fixed font
<tseng> pretty suck
<ajmitch> morning
<tseng> hi
<doko> ajmitch: you can upload C++ library packages now
<ajmitch> great, I'll still put patches up on bugzilla, right?
<ajmitch> looks like there's a few issues with apps needing recompiled
<tseng> blam is using c++
<ajmitch> or they just weren't changed properly :)
<tseng> not sure what im supposed to do with it
<ajmitch> doko: unixodbc-bin still depends on libodbcinstq1
<doko> ajmitch, hmm, will look
<tseng> wow the menu editor rocks
<Amaranth> tseng: the one in gnome-menus?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> its so simple
<Amaranth> any way to get the new one without logging out? :)
<tseng> beats me
<Amaranth> brb then
<tseng> killall gnome-panel?
<tseng> heh
<tseng> ogra: monodevelop worksforme
<tseng> ogra: you?
<ogra> hmm, havent upgraded all the day...
<Amaranth> hmm, it didn't update
<ogra> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/m/monodevelop/
<ogra> nope, it didnt build...
<Amaranth> ha, that's a lot like my new UI :)
<Amaranth> i guess we worked off the same doodle
<Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/smeg0.6.png
<Amaranth> i like mine better :)
<tseng> dude its the same thing
<Amaranth> err, yeah, that was too you
<tseng> but with andyfitzisms
<Amaranth> to
<ogra> meh, why does it build depend on mozilla ?
<tseng> i fixed that here
<Amaranth> andyfitzisms?
<tseng> havent uploaded yet
<tseng> Amaranth: the icons?
<tseng> from andyfitz
<Amaranth> oh, that's the icon theme on my machine
<Amaranth> it uses whatever theme you use
<Amaranth> hmm, the one in gnome-menus only allows you to hide/show entries
<ogra> hmm, it crashes
<tseng> wow, silly amd64
<ogra> hmm, but it knows python syntaxhighlighting :)
<ogra> tseng, seems it runs stable now...
<tseng> did you change something?
<ogra> no crash since i started it the secondtime... i can open and save files etc
<ogra> nope
<tseng> ok :(
<ogra> i suspect ff its pretty bad on amd64 currently
<ogra> hmm, it cant highlight Makefiles
<ogra> heh, thats funny, if i open a shellscript it gets opened in gvim
<ogra> (from the monodevelop filebrowser)
<JDahl> I packaged up a python packaged I'm working on, and a "dpkg --info" tells me: "Depends: atlas3-base | lapack3 | liblapack.so.3, atlas3-base | refblas3 | libblas.so.3, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libumfpack4 (>= 4.3-5), glpk", where all except glpk are found automatically by dpkg-buildpackage. But when I apt-get install the package, only glpk is automatically installed: do I need to explicitly list all those dependencies on t
<JDahl> he "Depends:" line in the control file?
<minghua> Hi, I've got a problem for c++ transition of arpack++
<minghua> In configure I get:
<minghua> checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
<minghua> configure: error: C preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
<minghua> See `config.log' for more details.
<minghua> make: *** [build]  Error 1
<minghua> and /lib/cpp is a symlink to /usr/bin/cpp-4.0
<minghua> nothing seems related in config.log, the last lines:
<minghua> #ifdef __cplusplus
<minghua> extern "C" void std::exit (int) throw (); using std::exit;
<minghua> configure: exit 1
<ivoks> anyone here? :)
<Burgundavia> nope, were all dead
<ivoks> :)
<Burgundavia> the european guys are just waking up now
<ivoks> i have on tiny problem :)
<ivoks> could you help me?
<Burgundavia> probably not, but shoot
<ivoks> when i change changelog with dch -i -Dbreezy
<ivoks> it puts an email as a signature
<ivoks> it was working fine, but now it puts ivoks@localhost.localdomain
<ivoks> would you know how to change that?
<ivoks> ah..
<ivoks> that's enviorment variable
<Treenaks> ivoks: /etc/mailname?
<ivoks> or
<ivoks> export EMAIL='ivoks@grad.hr'
<ivoks> that should work too
<ivoks> yes, it works :)
<ivoks> i replaced bash with zsh, so i lost all my env. variables
<Burgundavia> you can add DEBEMAIL or something similar, but I forget the exact varible
<ivoks> DEBEMAIL
<ivoks> and DEBFULLNAME
<Burgundavia> ya
<ivoks> man dch says it all :)
<ivoks> terminus is really nice font
<ivoks> ok, see you guys..
<\sh> morning
<dahane> morning
<doko> ivoks, ogra, how are the C++ uploads going, or who cares about them?
<Treenaks> dholbach ?
<ogra_d> doko
<ogra_d> ping
<doko> pong
<ogra_d> you said varconf misses a build depends on libsigc++-1.2-dev...
<ogra_d> but thats there
<ajmitch> hi doko, ogra_d
<ogra_d> hey ajmitch
<doko> is the build-dep tightened to the first version compiled for the new ABI?
<ogra_d> doko, btw, the rest of my day is donated to the libs :)
<ogra_d> ah, ok
<\sh> re
<ogra_d> that might be it
<doko> yes, we need that for the buildd's
<\sh> bad day for me
<ogra_d> oki
<\sh> ogra_d: I had a nice fight this morning at 5:45 with duke ;)
<ogra_d> heh
<ogra_d> duke is funny
<doko> ajmitch: libcommoncpp2, please just drop c102, don't add the c2
<\sh> ogra_d: and i had a nice chat with guenther
<ajmitch> doko: ah, sorry, that was 1st one I did :)
<doko> ajmitch: and I don't see a bug report for it
<doko> ajmitch: libccrtp: in the changelog, say what you did change, bug report is missing (I know, your second package ;)
* ajmitch will put them up asap.. 
<ajmitch> yes, I thought I'd fixed all the changelogs, obviously not :)
<\sh> hmmm...how do i use debdiff?
<ajmitch> debdiff package1.dsc package2.dsc
<\sh> and i was playing with source dirs
<\sh> hmmm...can someone check if I made everything allright for the bug report? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10957
<ogra> \sh, the lib binary could need a Provides
<\sh> Provides: libqssl2 should do it, right?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> err
<\sh> or should i use Provides: libqssl so it fits for 1 and 2
<ogra> c102
<\sh> sure :)
<\sh> thx
<ogra> no just let the packaging system know that it finds the old named lib in this package
<\sh> done
<\sh> what would be really nice, to have a jabber component for bugzilla and malone ;) reporting bugs via jabber and informing the devs via jabber about new bugs for their packages
<ogra> its planned... but dont expect it for 1.0
<\sh> I think bugzilla has already a jabber component...
<ogra_d> meh, doko
<ogra_d> ?
<doko> ogra_d: please no provides for renamed library packages. we WANT to conflict old and new packages
<ogra_d> libclutils0-dev is not installable....
<ogra_d> okay
<ogra_d> or rather its empty, my pbuilder doenst find it....
<ogra_d> but its installed
<\sh> shit
<\sh> i made a mistake
<ogra_d> \sh, nobody is perfect (seee above ;) )
<\sh> ogra_d: but a really nasty one...i forgot the libfile ;)
<\sh> doko: ah..so i will remove also my provides line ;)
<\sh> doko: but Replaces: is fine?
<doko> which package?
<\sh> libqssl
<\sh> libqssl2c102
<doko> source package?
<\sh> qssl
* ogra_d kicks his pbuilder
<ogra_d> checking for isClutils in -lclutils... no
<doko> \sh, where's the bug report?
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10957
<\sh> doko: but w8 a moment :) i'll update the debdiff
<\sh> ok..u can check now
<doko> missing conflict to the old lib
<\sh> see...;)
<\sh> new debdiff attached
<doko> tighten the build-dep on libqt3-mt-dev
<doko> (and mark the attachment as patches)
<\sh> doko: what do u mean with "tighten"? is libqt3-mt-dev (>= 3.1.1-1) not right?
<\sh> doko: k
<doko> look at the library list, all deps on C++ libs have to be tightened to the first version with the new ABI
<\sh> u mean: if 3.3.3-7 is the first new ABI version I should change build-deps to libqt3-mt-dev (>= 3.3.3-7)
<\sh> or 3.3.3-7ubuntu5
<doko> yes, the latter
<ogra> doko, any idea about libclutils ?
<\sh> k...thx
<doko> that's why we keep the version information in the table
<doko> ogra: the one in the archive?
<ogra> it gets installed in the pbuilder.... but the configure doesnt find it...
<ogra> if i log in and install it manually, all files are where they belong
<doko> 20031216-5 ?
<ogra> yep
<ogra_d> configure: error: Could not find a workable libclutils.so or libclutils.a.
<ogra_d>     You probably need to install clutils and/or specify the location of
<ogra_d>     it with the --with-clutils option.
<ogra> both are there
<\sh> ok..done
<doko> ogra: no information in config.log?
* ajmitch is off to sleep now
<ogra> hmm, how do i get the config.log from a pbuilder that failed ?
* ogra builds aain, without pbuilder
<ogra> again even
<\sh> ogra: there is a switch to force not to delete the temp files after build
* ogra looks at the pbuilder docs
<\sh> --preserve-buildplace
<doko> ogra: hmm, YES, exactly that option
<\sh> no...
<\sh> or?
<ogra> hmm, but anyway, it builds fine outside the pbuilder
<\sh> This  is useful if you want to attempt to build a large number of packages successively, but you expect that many of them cannot have their build
<\sh>               dependencies satisfied.
<\sh>               It will clean up the build place on failure, or after a successful build.
<\sh> ok second cxx qt package finished
<\sh> ogra: hmmm..one apt-get miss update in the pbuilder chroot?
<ogra_d> i don an update before every build
<ogra_d> -n
<\sh> ogra_d: hmmm...additional source in your chroot and not in pbuilder? dokos repos eventually? :)
<\sh> anyways...started this day at 5:30am now it's time to go home
<ogra> \sh, i dont use a chroot, just a plain pbuilder with main and universe sources
<\sh> ogra: hmmm...confusing just like ogra and ogra_d ;-9
<\sh> bbl gents...going home
<doko> \sh, bye
<\sh> at least at home
<ogra_d> doko, can i leave tyvis for you ? i have no idea what to do here and --preserve-buildplace doeosnt help at all, since it removes the tree on error or breakage... locally it builds fine
<doko> ogra_d: ok
<ogra_d> doko, thanks :)
<ogra_d> doko, whats the exchange rate for this 2:1, or higher ? ;)
<ogra_d> meh, libsigcx-gtk-0.6-dev is boken....
<HiddenWolf> guys, is any of you aware of some utility that allows you to snap programs to a grid?
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: if you hold shift while moving it snaps to other edges
<HiddenWolf> Lathiat, I just got myself a 1920x1200 monitor, and I'm looking for a way to keep my programs where I want them.
<HiddenWolf> shift might just do the trick. :)
<HiddenWolf> It'd be neat if you could 'partition' your desktop, and lock a program to a partition, tho.
<Shufla> hi. is there guideline for importing sid packages to hoary/breezy? [package is made for sid, but it is not avaiable in debian] 
<ogra> recompile it in breezy
<Shufla> ogra: ah. but there are some tweaks needed in debian/ dir. ok. i'll go thru debian packagers documentation, thanks.
<herve> motu meeting?
<ogra> oops
<ogra> youre right
<ogra> in 1h
<herve> we're gmt+2... *headache*
<Lathiat> HiddenWolf: apt-get install devilspie
<HiddenWolf> Lathiat, you rule
<Lathiat> :)
<HiddenWolf> ugh. I'll need to google for that
<HiddenWolf> It's pretty much useless at default. :P
<dholbach> hellas!
<herve> heya dholbach!
<dholbach> hey herve!
<dholbach> hey bradb :-)
<dholbach> bradb: who would i have to bother for "add a mail adress to a team"?
<dholbach> could everybody have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting and add their favorite topic to it?
<herve> that's how I saw there is a meeting coming :-)
<dholbach> :-)))
<herve> thanks for the reminder!
<dholbach> de rien :-)
<bradb> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hey bradb, how are you?
<bradb> good thanks, you? :)
<dholbach> i'm alright, thanks :-)
<dholbach> bradb: who would i have to bother for "add a mail adress to a team"? :-)
<dholbach> who takes care of the "people" section
<bradb> dholbach: salgado's the man
<dholbach> ahh, ok
<dholbach> i'll bother him next :-)
<bradb> hang on
<bradb> perhaps i'll summon him onto the channel
<dholbach> erm, we have motu meeting next
<ogra> dholbach, i dont think we need a team mailadress
<dholbach> yes we do
<ogra> rather mail all the team members, the adresses are in the stack
<dholbach> i want to have bugs go to desktop-bugs@ for example
<ogra> its nonsense to have a extra mailing list you have to maintain
<dholbach> you don't have to maintain it
<ogra> someone has
<dholbach> and jdub, seb128 and i just arranged one for desktop-bugs@
<ogra> hmm...
<ogra> k
<dholbach> ok... i think we have a meeting now
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> guys, join #ubuntu-meeting
<salgado> hi there!
<herve> hi
<bradb> doh, you guys just started a meeting didn't you :P
<ogra> yep
<bradb> dholbach, ogra, salgado: if you can't discuss your questions right now about setting up your team, perhaps you could note a time a bit later when you can help to get things sorted for MOTU team config?
<salgado> I'm going for lunch now. will be back in 1h or so
<ogra> salgado, in an hour ?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> great
<salgado> ogra, perfect
<tseng|work> hey salgado
<tseng|work> oh.
<dholbach> salgado-lunch: we we're just wondering, if we could have a mail-adress for teams - so the bugs assigned to a team could go to a mailing list or something
<ogra> dholbach, we'll meet in 30min
<dholbach> ogra, salgado-lunch: ok
<ivoks> ola :)
<dholbach> we're still in #ubuntu-meeting :-)
<herve> hi ivoks
<dholbach> hi ivoks :)
<herve> me first :-p
<ogra> salgado, we hurried :)
<\sh> hah back to normal work ;)
<\sh> lemme check for cxx stuff
<ivoks> hi all
<ivoks> :)
<salgado> ogra, so, the problem is just adding an email address to teams?
<ivoks> oh, what fun i have, salvage files from dead disk :)
<ivoks> ogra: here? ready for some uploading?
<dholbach> salgado: and adding teams more easily
<dholbach> salgado: i just wondered if somebody was working on it - bradb seems to have just dragged you in here :-)
<salgado> dholbach, by more easily you mean, having a link to it?
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> salgado, thats dholbachs problem... i would be happy if a bug sent a mail to all team members ;)
<dholbach> or to a mailing list for the team :-)
<ogra> (as long as its assigned to the team)
<dholbach> yes
<salgado> so, let's start from the beginning
<salgado> the problem of team creation:
<salgado> we used to have a link on you "actions" portlet, in foaf, to create new teams
<salgado> but that doesn't make sense to most of the users, so we removed it
<salgado> most of the users will never create a new team
<dholbach> ok, i can see your point there
<salgado> ideally, a team would be created when you want to reassign a product/package
<dholbach> i should just describe the procedure on the wiki
<salgado> (we don't have reassignment working yet, but when we do, it'll be possible to create new teams when reassigning anything)
<ogra> salgado, but that doesnt give us mails...
<salgado> now, about the emails
<dholbach> emails! :-)
<salgado> there's a spec on that. I'm working on it right now and you can already add a contact email to a team
<dholbach> oh... i tried it some minutes ago
<dholbach> let me have a look again
<salgado> when this spec is completely implemented, we'll follow these rules when mailing teams:
<salgado> dholbach, is not yet in production
<dholbach> ahhhh ok
<dholbach> but good to know, thanks for that, salgado  :-)
<salgado> 1. if a team has a contact email address, all emails directed to that team will go to that email
<salgado> 2. if there's no contact email address, we mail all members of that team
<ogra> yay
<salgado> do you guys think this is reasonable?
<ogra> yep, absoultely perfect
<salgado> great.
<dholbach> salgado: if you tell the user what's going on, it's absolutely perfect and just what we need
<dholbach> s/user/team leader/
<ogra> salgado, could we have
<dholbach> rocking
<salgado> dholbach, yeas, this will be clear when you create a team
<ogra> 3. both
<ogra> (on demand indeed)
<salgado> ogra, you mean, mailing the contact email and all members?
<ogra> yep
<salgado> do you have a use case for that?
<ogra> i.e. i have a team where not all members are subscribed to the ML dholbach wants to send his bugreports to, the this would be a fine addon
<ogra> (its not really necessary though...)
<salgado> ogra, ok, I'll add this to the spec (as an unresolved issue for now), and I'll keep you informed about what we decided on that
<salgado> ok?
<dholbach> cool
<ogra> yep... put it on low priority... 1. and 2. are just fine
<dholbach> thanks salgado
<salgado> I'd say that's easier to request that user to subscribe to the mailing list. but maybe I'm wrong
<ogra> yeah, thanks for your time salgado :)
<salgado> dholbach, ogra. no problem.
<salgado> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20010805.html
<salgado> I just saw that page and asked myself: "wtf am I doing here?" :P
<ogra> salgado, i'd prefer the variant without ML at all (2.) :)
<dholbach> :-)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> thats a good page...
<salgado> yeah. the first header is the best advice one can give. :)
<ogra> salgado, so you should travel more to look over some sholders ;)
<dholbach> salgado: yeah, be sure to ping me, when you hit germany :-)
<tseng|work> hi'
<salgado> cool. I'll do that for sure. the same for you guys when in Brazil
<ogra> yay
<siretart> hi
<ogra> hey siretart
<ogra> you missed the motu meeting :)
<dholbach> woohoo!
<siretart> say, I fixed a package, and needed your advice. The bug was in an aclocal makro file. Therefore I had to rerun aclocal, automake and autoconf
<siretart> this bloated my *.diff.gz. is this ok?
<tseng|work> yes
<siretart> it the tpb package, the dependency of libxosd was removed because of that breakage
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> siretart: yes, absolutely until there's an upstream fix
<ogra> hmm, what about running the autotools at build time triggered by a patch ?
<siretart> ok, then I'll upload the package for review
<ogra> hey chiefofthejojos
<siretart> ogra: whats the advantage of that? in my experience, this aclocal/automake stuff is quite fragile when changing versions
<chiefofthejojos> hi
<ogra> chiefofthejojos nice to see you here :)(
<dholbach> hey chiefofthejojos
<ogra> siretart, you sounded worried of the size ;)
<\sh> ogra: run autotools inside a dpatch-edit-patch ;)
<siretart> ogra: hehe. but FTBFS make my worrying even more ;)
<\sh> thats what i did with mysql-query-browser and it was proposed by dholbach?
<\sh> or herve?
<\sh> i don't know anymore ;)
<chiefofthejojos> you guys make it sound so easy.  When I was reading on the website how to become a MOTU it seemed difficult to do
<chiefofthejojos> thanks :)
<dholbach> ogra: that's a no-go, i got flamed for the idea at least 3 times now ;-)
<dholbach> ogra: ask on #ubuntu-devel and let me watch ;-)))
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: did you hear of the MOTU crew before?
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: difficult?
<chiefofthejojos> before what?
<dholbach> the formal process sounds difficult because it has several steps of several things to "tick off" on the list
<chiefofthejojos> yeah, that's what I mean
<chiefofthejojos> but it sounds so easy when you guys told me to go to bugzilla.ubuntu.com and fix bugs
<dholbach> it's easy :-)
<chiefofthejojos> :D
<dholbach> it all comes with time
<dholbach> if you really like to start fixing stuff or learn packaging - that's all you need first
<dholbach> the wish and ... patience maybe :-)
<ivoks> there goes ogra :(
<chiefofthejojos> hehe, I'm sure
<ivoks> and I just wanted to talk to him :((
<dholbach> ivoks: he'll be back :-)
<ivoks> ;....(
<ivoks> :))
<ogra_d> hmm
<chiefofthejojos> I definitely have a wish, thanks for taking the time to explain to me dholbach
<ogra_d> strange
<ivoks> ogra_d: :)
<chiefofthejojos> :-D
<ogra_d> my laptop is disconnected...
<\sh> hmm btw
* ivoks jumps :)
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: this is the place to be :-)
<dholbach> ogra_d: netsplit
<\sh> what happens when I edit a wiki page right now, leave it open in edit mode, and somebody else is editing? will the wiki merge the changes?
<ogra_d> lol, i just see it in the laptop
<ivoks> ogra_d: doko approoved two more sources, so, they need upload
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: the channel i mean - if you read MOTUTodo on the wiki page you'll see there's a lot of action going on
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: apart from the bugs, UniverseCxxTransition is a big target
<ogra_d> ivoks, yay
<chiefofthejojos> yeah, I started reading about that but I didn't really understand
<ivoks> ogra_d: there is a chance that 2-3 more will be on my web in couple of hours :) if, doko accepts new patches :)
<chiefofthejojos> it sounded like converting code from C to C++?  is that right?
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: no :-)
<ogra_d> ivoks, greta, i'll be around
<chiefofthejojos> oh :-[
<ivoks> ogra_d: okie dokie
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: we'll introduce a new version of a c++ compiler
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: which will break stuff
<chiefofthejojos> so, what's so different about the compiler that requires this big transition project?
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: the ABI to be exact - does that mean anything to you?
<chiefofthejojos> sorry, don't know the acronym
<DanielN> hi all
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: it means that binaries linked against libraries that start using g++-4.0 will stop working
<\sh> chiefofthejojos: with gcc4/g++4 the old libs and apps using those libs will become incompatible...just like in the old days between libc5 and glibc
<siretart> if anyone has time to review my autofoo mess, here is the url: http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/tpb/
<\sh> nice..breaking layout on cxx ;)
<siretart> I know that libcxxtransistion has priority, but I needed the xosd support for my thinkpad ;)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> DanielN: do you need the op now
<dholbach> ?
<ozamosi> about the transition... Will the kernel really not be recompiled..?
<DanielN> dholbach: don't understand ?
<dholbach> ozamosi: i think they keep using gcc-3.4
<ozamosi> Why..?
<chiefofthejojos> so, we're just attempting to compile stuff with the new compiler, and then fixing the errors that are received?
<dholbach> DanielN: do you need the op now?
<dholbach> ozamosi: because it requires large fixing, i suppose
<DanielN> no, i think i don't need op here at all
<dholbach> DanielN: ok, could you de-op yourself please?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> please, deprivlige your self :)
<DanielN> of course! but i don't know ..  is this a "misconfigurement" ?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o DanielN]  by DanielN
<dholbach> no it isnt
<herve> re
<dholbach> we just don't need ops in here
<dholbach> re herve
<dholbach> most of the times not
<\sh> dholbach: nono..he opped himself via chanserve ;)
<DanielN> yep
<dholbach> we feel confident in people in here
<herve> we're grown ups :-)
<dholbach> i know
<siretart> hehe
<dholbach> herve++
<herve> (growns up?)
<ivoks> herve:
<\sh> i never needed OP privs for about 8 years now
<ivoks> \sh: OPs are for kids..
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ignore is most of the time usefull
<ivoks> can I get one? :)
<DanielN> thanks ivoks ;>
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: that's the first part of the story
<herve> ivoks?
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: second part is, that we need a hell lot of renaming action going on
<ivoks> herve: yes, herve?
<herve> <ivoks> herve:
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: to enable us to build-depend on proper versions and make the change consequently
<herve> :-)
<herve> communication clash :-)
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: it's all written up on BreezyToolchainTodo or something
<dholbach> (linked on UniverseCxxTransition)
<ivoks> herve: oh, just saying 'alo :)
<herve> anyone with breezy and broken keys in xchat?
<chiefofthejojos> that's tough
<chiefofthejojos> that's a lot of work
<chiefofthejojos> I think I'll start with bugs
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: it is
<ogra_d> chiefofthejojos, but easy work...
<chiefofthejojos> oh, really?
<dholbach> herve: broken keys everywhere
<chiefofthejojos> in that case, I might check it out
<ogra_d> you have to follow a checklist...
<dholbach> herve: ctrl-<something> especially
<herve> okay, I'll even stop picking in breezy update
<herve> s
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: just look at the patches in bugzilla for the cxx transition crack
<herve> dholbach, yeah, I was suprised with gnome-terminal disappearing at ctrl+shift+t :)-
<ogra_d> chiefofthejojos, but before you should make yourself a bit familiar with the basics of packaging
<dholbach> hahaha :-)
<dholbach> exactly
<dholbach> that sucks... badly
<chiefofthejojos> ogra_d: ok, thanks for the tip
<herve> I was even more suprised with the black screen of this morning...
<ogra_d> hwo uses such long key combis ? ctrl+shift+t tsk
<dholbach> i use it
<dholbach> it makes gnome-terminal rock
<dholbach> but ogra doesnt use tabs ;-)
<ivoks> lol
<ogra_d> yeah
<ivoks> aterm is the only term :)
<siretart> ogra_d: emacs users ;)
<ogra_d> tabs suck... you cant fill your screen with them
<ivoks> :)
<herve> ho no, not a terminal troll! :-)
<ogra_d> hehe
* siretart likes xemacs
* ogra_d is a vi guy
* ivoks is like ogra, a vi guy
<\sh> cat|awk|sed ;)
<ogra_d> ed
* ozamosi likes nano...
* herve changing bits using the force
<siretart> lol
<dholbach> hahaha :-))
<dholbach> herve ROCKS
<dholbach> i always said it
<siretart> absolutly ;)
<\sh> herve: i hope not the dark side ;)
<ogra_d> heh
<herve> not always
<herve> you didn't know me before :-)
<\sh> using the force to shift bits from 1 to 0 is dark ;)
<ivoks> :)
<herve> \sh dark side of the spoon :)-
<ogra_d> \sh, sometimes he's 0 sometimes he's 1
<ivoks> he has torch, and he really burns he's CDs :)
<ivoks> he's? lol
<ivoks> his...
<\sh> ogra_d: sure there r only 10 people who understand binary notation ;)
<ogra> heh
<siretart> there is no spoon
<\sh> RELOAD !
<\sh> ;=)
<ogra> siretart, just because you dont see it, it must not mean it isnt there
<\sh> ok..now for business after we discussed all fav. movies ;)
<\sh> has anybody the "doko kdelibs4c2" on his breezy?
<\sh> i think i have a problem in my breezy cage
<dholbach> ivoks: could you kindly ask elmo to whitelist your email adress?
<ivoks> am I the only one that has breezy and another breezy in cage?
<dholbach> ivoks: you'll get receipt mail and your name will appear on *-changes@
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> ROCK
<ivoks> who is elmo? :)
<herve> so you can show to your mother ;-)
<ivoks> herve: i have g/f :)
<chiefofthejojos> dholbach and ogre_d:  thanks for all the help and tips,  I'll see you later.  I have to get to work. :)
<ivoks> ok, that was a lie :))
<herve> mother, gf, whoever!
<ogra_d> chiefofthejojos, just drop by here any time you like ;)
<dholbach> ivoks: elmo is "James Troup", he hardcore-absolutely rocks and is ftpmaster
<ivoks> dholbach: can i ask him over irc or special, official, email is needed?
<dholbach> chiefofthejojos: cool, have a nice day! :-)
<ivoks> dholbach: i know, I have used /wii :)
<dholbach> ivoks: try to irc him
<chiefofthejojos> ogre_d: I willl, everyday at work ;)
<ogra_d> :)
<ivoks> dholbach: ok, but you have to tell me why do I need my email whitelisted?
<dholbach> ivoks: you'll get receipt mail and your name will appear on *-changes@
<herve> ok, I have a ftbfs to fix...
<ogra_d> ivoks, to not confuse us
<dholbach> (for every upload)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> ok..anyone can give me a hint when all the packages are going into the buildd (cxxtrans)?
<herve> put in the build queue every 5 minutes?
<dholbach> \sh: they got uploaded
<\sh> dholbach: cause i'm missing one important packages for me right now ;)
<herve> sure, dput magic
<\sh> it's a mess with all this kde stuff
<ogra_d> \sh, thats because i didnt come around to upload it yet
<\sh> ogra: doko can upload as well, right?
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> why is s near w?
<\sh> ogra: and it's kdelibs4c2 ;)
<ivoks> so, then you can type in, instead of whitelist, shitlist
<ogra_d> \sh, ah, ok... but doko has to solve the thpethial probs for us ;)
<\sh> ogra: the what? ,-)
<ogra_d> special
<ogra_d> lisp is not your strength ? ;)
<dholbach> <-- cooking
<\sh> ogra: well..not at all..i missed my lambda session ;)
<ogra_d> heh
<\sh> ok...then i have to patch by myself
<ivoks> terminus fonts rock...
<\sh> no problem...it's just because i want to get rid of this list and go on with the real stuff
<ogra_d> \sh, there are also riddell and amu
<herve> ivoks, you make think I wanted to test them
<\sh> ogra: kdelibs is main
<ivoks> herve: test them... best fonts for x/a/gnome/term
<ivoks> so smooth, so nice... perfect
<ivoks> i would give nobel to one that created them
<herve> I should see "terminus" in the font list?
<ogra_d> herve, its a special package
<herve> sure
<ivoks> xfonts-terminus - Fixed-width fonts for fast reading
* ogra_d wonders where xclass disappeared
<herve> I installed it for a year
<ivoks> ogra_d: ?
<herve> but never played with it
<ogra_d> i uploaded it before tqsllib
<ivoks> ogra_d: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/libs
<ivoks> ogra_d: ok :)
<ivoks> herve: do this:
<ivoks> herve: in .Xresources add this line:
<ivoks> herve: Aterm*font: -xos4-terminus-medium-r-normal--12-120-72-72-c-*-iso8859-1
<ivoks> herve: and run aterm
<herve> I don't use aterm
<herve> no I won't :-p
<ivoks> herve: then put Xterm
<ogra_d> uhhh, Xfonts
<herve> neither
<ivoks> then i don't care! work with you ugly fixed :)
<herve> but what the hell is the name of the font in gtk list!
<ivoks> terminus
<herve> I never found it
<ivoks> xfontsel
<ivoks> run xfontsel
<ivoks> fmly - terminus
<herve> sure
<herve> but I'm talking about gtk
<ivoks> these are fixed with fonts
<ivoks> only for terminals
* herve cries
<herve> gnome-terminal is not a terminal? :)-
<ivoks> herve: did you install xfonts-terminus.*?
<ivoks> herve: nope, it isn't
<ivoks> herve: start mc and then try to quit mc in gnome-terminal :))
<herve> I do it everyday!
<ivoks> with mouse :)
<herve> nope
<herve> F10
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> f10 works?
<herve> but I configure the tools I use :-p
<ivoks> lie to someone else :)
<herve> 1/
<\sh> esc-0 is the same as f10 in the console ;)
<herve> I don't use the menu so I'm ok
<ivoks> \sh: i know, but anyway...
<ivoks> f10 is f10 :)
<herve> 2/ go in the profile and deactivate gnome-terminal to react to function keys
<herve> (or something like that)
<ivoks> we are having large discussion how gtk and qt break unix legacy
<ivoks> on hr.comp.os.linux
<herve> unix legacy is also to be break
<herve> but let's not feed the troll!
<ivoks> they are copying windows shortcuts
<ivoks> and ignore old, unix style
<herve> which windows copyied from apple in turn...
<ivoks> so u have ctrl+c (and we all now what this is one is really for)
<\sh> and apple from xerox
<ivoks> there are ctrl+q, ctrl+s, etc...
<herve> \sh, yes!
<\sh> ivoks: ctrl-c never was "stop app" in SAA/CUA Specs of IBM
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> \sh: ctrl+c is kill
<ivoks> not stop :)
<\sh> alt-q was quit programm
<ivoks> ctrl+s is stop
<\sh> ivoks: sorry, yes kill ;)
<ivoks> i said kill :)
<\sh> ctrl+s and ctrl+q are terminal xon/xoff sequences
<herve> \sh, lucky you have a alt key on your vt100 ;-)
<\sh> herve: well...i have to check my old unisys vt100 term ;)
<herve> okay, I don't know who decided to move font from /usr/lib to /usr/share
<herve> but terminus didn't follow the transition
<\sh> who is terminus?
<herve> xfonts-terminus
<\sh> malone now ;)
<herve> no, I eat now :-)
<\sh> oh yes food...well i forgot to go shopping today...was too tired
<herve> I only have bread and yoghourts to eat!
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> why is debian_version in /etc still 3.1?
<\sh> sounds good :) i want to have one bread, white, with jam ;)
<ogra> ivoks, is there a newer one ?
<ivoks> ogra: allways :)
<herve> ivoks, because sarge is 3.1
<ivoks> herve: i know that, i'm using debian since '99.
<herve> I don't see the point :-)
<herve> so why do you ask?
<ivoks> never mind :)
<ivoks> I had car accident, remeber?
<ivoks> i bumped my head
<herve> you never told me
<ivoks> no?
<ivoks> big one... one moth ago
<herve> not yet I mean :-)
<ivoks> three cars... i was in the middle :(
<herve> ouch
<ivoks> i was searching for a parking space
<ivoks> for 20-30 minutes
<ivoks> finnaly, i spoted one...
<ivoks> and i was just getting ready to put my punto in that little place
<ivoks> when a peugeot, ah that french cars, smashed me from behind
<herve> sorry but there's no relationship with it being a french car
<ivoks> :))
<ivoks> yes, there is...
<ivoks> french and italian car... you don't know wich is worse :)
<ivoks> nhf, but....
<herve> I'd rather drive a peugeot than a fiat ;-)
<ivoks> things are how they are :)
<ivoks> herve: i agree, that's why i have ford :)
<ivoks> poor peugot was totaly smashed
<ivoks> i mean, that car will never drive again
* \sh bangs his head on the virtual table
<herve> a ford punto, sure :-)
<ivoks> herve: ford focus
<herve> \sh, so you get virtually hurt?
<ivoks> and fiat punto for town :)
<herve> ha ok
* \sh writes 1000 times "Do not involve yourself in politics"
<ivoks> :)
<herve> \sh, isn't it a political act? :-)
<ivoks> politics?
<\sh> see #u-d
<ivoks> :)
<herve> I don't read #u-d to get peace of mind :-)
<ivoks> who are you, anyway? :)
<ivoks> oh... again french :)
<ivoks> \sh: is that french guy teasing you? :)
<herve> hey!
<herve> :-)
<ogra_d> ivoks, careful, thats the second debian release manager ;)
<\sh> ivoks: no :)
<ivoks> ogra_d: :)
<herve> hey, a straburg guy!
<ivoks> now i can bitch around why is debian so slow :)
<ogra_d> ergh
<ogra_d> dholbach,
<ogra_d> ...
<ogra_d> june 19 is a sunday
<ivoks> no fune there anymore :(
<ogra_d> any objections that i move it to the 20th ?
<ogra_d> (next meeting that is)
<herve> ok for me
<ogra> ok, its a wiki anyway, we can change it later....
<ivoks> ok, can i come to meeting?
<ogra> ivoks, why not
<ivoks> they are in ubuntu-meeting?
<herve> yep
<ogra> sure
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> wanna look to such meeting too, one time ;)
<herve> OT: nice moment when a band of friends had the same idea at the same time!
<ogra> we had one 2hrs ago
<herve> DanielN, just come in, it's free! :-)
<DanielN> :)
<ivoks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda ?
<ivoks> herve: can we bring pop-corn? :)
<DanielN> ^^
<ivoks> DanielN: you get the coke, i'll bring wine :)
<ogra_d> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUMeeting
<herve> ivoks: only if you provide enough for us all!
<herve> anyway, you can attend any meeting
<herve> just keep silent if you're not concerned
<ivoks> herve: i have wine celer and wineyard
<DanielN> :>
<ivoks> or how it is called in english...
<herve> and shut off your mobile phone ;-)
<ivoks> ok
<DanielN> herve, i never do that at all. not at (real) business-meetings too :-)
<DanielN> (reffered to the mobile-phone)
<herve> not even in theaters, cinemas, etc. ?
<herve> very bad
<ivoks> movie stops for him :)
<dholbach> ogra_d: ok for me
<DanielN> mhm .. for me it's like an advanture .. rings it or rings it not ? :-)
<herve> yeah, for the others too
<DanielN> ^^
<ogra> dholbach, you couldnt edit it anyway ;-P
<dholbach> :-)
<DanielN> dholbach: extremely short time back to the channel op thing: i didn't use the chanserv command directly to #ubuntu-motu, i used the "op all command", cause for me it's to much to select the right one chans :P
<dholbach> DanielN: if you have the time for something like that...
<DanielN> not really
<ivoks> enough for today..
<ivoks> bye all
<ivoks> time to go out and conquer some ladies
<\sh> re :)
<herve> you were gone? :-)
<\sh> well...virtually :) i had a long chat with this svenl :)
<\sh> quite interessting btw
<herve> what was the issue, anyway?
<herve> ho, wait
<herve> he is a debian release manager?
<\sh> yes
<\sh> but we weren't discussion this :)
<herve> don't you delay the release of sarge even more!
<herve> :-)
<\sh> he asked about ubuntu cds/dvds to give away with pegasos ppc boards and computers
<\sh> and the former default OS was morph OS for this platform...after a time, some morphos devs wrote on their webpage that genesi ( the manufacture of pegasosppc) is not paying them anymore for dev work
<\sh> (http://www.morphos.net)
<\sh> after this, I saw an announcement on gentoo-core that genesi is sponsoring the gentoo project...and I was not sure, what is the truth behind all this bad and sad PR
<herve> yet another dallas scenario :-)
<\sh> and the reason why i was bugging him is: i want to know :)
<herve> okay
<\sh> and now I will send him an email with my contact data and trying to get a dev machine for (K)ubuntu developing on a ppc platform :)
<herve> I thought it was some violent discussion about ubuntu decisions
<ogra> oh, is he related to pegasos anyhow ?
<chiefofthejojos> ogra: so, I should read the "Debian New Maintainer's Guide" to understand the basics of packaging?
<\sh> and he is also some days in germany, so it's time to meet with him anyways :)
<\sh> ogra: yeah
<ogra> chiefofthejojos, thats a good start, yes...
<herve> \sh, he's not living far from Germany, anyway
<\sh> herve: right now he's in frankfurt oberursel :)
<chiefofthejojos> cool, perhaps I should wait 'til I get home from work to do all this :-[
<chiefofthejojos> ;)
<herve> chiefofthejojos, yes, take your time
<herve> reading it fast won't help
<\sh> chiefofthejojos: learning by doing :) and use the force :)
<herve> have a whisky and start reading!
<ogra> chiefofthejojos, and dont fear to bug us with questions
<chiefofthejojos> hehe, thanks guys I've got some rum at home, will that work?
<herve> well, think before asking, though :-)
<ogra> chiefofthejojos, rum is ok too
<herve> chiefofthejojos, not after the third glass ;-)
<chiefofthejojos> hehe
<\sh> to lighten some nice burnings, rum is quite good ;) 80% stroh rum ;)
<herve> ha... stroh rum...
<\sh> and as medicine also formidable :)
<herve> :-)
<herve> and for cleaning old traces of fat!
<chiefofthejojos> hehe, I'll just make sure not to join the channel after 3 or more so I won't ask stupid questions :)
<ogra> i one had a russian jeep.... you could drive it with "stroh rum"
<ogra> once even
<Treenaks> ogra: what a waste of stroh rum!
<ogra> Treenaks, depends....
<chiefofthejojos> what else would you use it for? O:-)
<herve> so you could drive to the shop and buy more!
<ogra> Treenaks, if you use it to drive to the liquor store to get even more of it, its fine ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: hm, good point :)
<ogra> herve, :)
<chiefofthejojos> haha
<herve> ogra, ;-)
<dholbach> you rock! :-)
<\sh> ok...kvirc build 1
<herve> whoops! I had a ftbfs on the fire!
<\sh> i need a faster laptop
<ogra> \sh, get a build server ;)
<herve> \sh, you just need a real machine
<\sh> herve: haha :) tell it to my ex-wife...she's eating my money
<ogra> \sh, only because you sponsor her traveling around the world
<herve> pay her in ubuntu cd :-)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> ogra: no this i didn't pay...but the rest
<dholbach> see you guys tomorrow
<dholbach> have a nice evening
<ogra> ciao dholbach
<\sh> u too dholbach
<herve> see you dholbach
<chiefofthejojos> see you dholbach
<dholbach> ogra, \sh, herve, chiefofthejojos: you all rock! the world needs more guys like you! :-)
<ogra> thanks :)
<\sh> ogra: i'm looking forward to meet up with u and dholbach (and mvo eventually ;))
<herve> you mean, chatting insteading of working? :-)
* ogra blushes
<chiefofthejojos> thank you!
<herve> (instead)
<dholbach> herve: you know that's not all :-)
* \sh blueished 
<ogra> \sh, ubuntu mini conference ?
<\sh> ogra: sure :)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> *wave*
<\sh> ogra: UaO
<ogra> heh
<chiefofthejojos> ogra: I'm not familiar with irc, how to you produce a line like this: "***ogra blushes"?
<\sh> or UdO?
<ogra>  /me blushes
<ogra> chiefofthejojos, try it :)
* chiefofthejojos can't believe he didn't know how to do this
<ogra> ha
<chiefofthejojos> cool
<\sh> chief: <nick>!<user>@host privmsg: \0x001blushes\x001
<\sh> but easier to do an /me bla
<chiefofthejojos> \sh: what's that?
<\sh> chiefofthejojos: the actual representation of ctcp commands like /me :)
<herve> what the irc client sends
<\sh> rfc1492?
<chiefofthejojos> oh, interesting
<\sh> have to check my old kmyirc sources :)
<chiefofthejojos> see you guys, we're having a call to foosball at work
<chiefofthejojos> :-D
<\sh> chiefofthejojos: good to have u around :)
<\sh> hmm...applications should also be renamed for the cxx trans?
<ogra> nope
<tseng|work> nice someone fixed the __thread bug ogra
<tseng|work> we can use it now
<herve> I can't imagine the mess, otherwise :-)
<ogra> only their deps
<\sh> ok
<ogra> tseng|work, hooray
<tseng|work> http://lists.ximian.com/archives/public/mono-patches/2005-May/058760.html
<tseng|work> very very simple patch
<\sh> ogra: and if they have shlibs attached, right?
<herve> yeah, like the last patch in debian's samba
<herve> removing a "!" in a condition ;-)
<ogra> tseng|work, yeah
<tseng|work> now i know why gentoo doesnt have it
<tseng|work> they all set their CHOST to 686
<tseng|work> :D
<ogra> heh
<Treenaks> tseng|work: *mumbles something about funroll-loops.org*
<\sh> tseng: lol
<herve> I wonder if I'd like to understand such jokes one day
<ogra> herve, they are optimizing themselves away ;)
<\sh> herve: www.gentoo.org and read the installation handbook :) then u know :)
<\sh> (well the beginnings of this hype :))
<herve> do you have the same expression: "best is the enemy of better" ?
<\sh> i only know "das beste ist nicht gut genug"
<herve> not really this
<herve> nevermind
<herve> I think I understand gentoo is optimizing too much wrt stability
<\sh> herve: not at all..the kids yes, but not the devs normally...but u r right, it's one of the weakening points of gentoo
<herve> I thought it was spending 90% time compiling and 10% time using your system :-)
<herve> say you receive a "const GraphObserver * obs1" in a function
<herve> why g++ won't let you cast it to an unsigned for comparison
<herve> I mean, why would this be an error?
<tseng|work> flaming losers in gentoo is a very loud minority group, I guess
<tseng|work> oh well.
<\sh> tseng: flaming losers?
<\sh> what usergroup is it?
<herve> sorry for the paste:
<herve> In particular, code like this:
<herve>         int i;
<herve>         (char) i = 5;
<herve> 
<herve> why would casting be removed from C++?
<\sh> uint i; (char) i=5 should work
<\sh> type compatiblity
<Treenaks> herve: signedness..
<herve> treenaks, weirdness to me :-)
<tseng|work> \sh: the -O99 -j007 kids
<\sh> herve: strict typechecking :) one of the new goodies of gcc4 ;)
<\sh> tseng: oh yeah :)
<herve> ok, I'll try something
<herve> but I need someone with an amd64 or ia64
<\sh> herve: bug ogra ,)
<herve> \sh, Treenaks, any idea why "cast from 'const GraphObserver*' to 'unsigned int' loses precision" would only occur on 64 bit platforms?
<herve> \sh, I was hinting at ogra ;-)
<Treenaks> herve: a pointer cast into an integer..
<Treenaks> herve: maybe?
<ogra> hmm, no idea...
<herve> Treenaks, I only want to say "mind you, g++, I do wathever I wish with my values"
<herve> but i386 compiles fine
<herve> ogra, just for borrowing a few hours of your cpu :-)
<Treenaks> wait for one of the C++ gurus :)
<herve> to torture him? :-)
<Treenaks> herve: hmm, maybe
* Treenaks thinks herve has turned to the dark side ;)
<\sh> i need to fix more on kvirc then the build-deps and conflicts
<\sh> *grmpf*
* herve gazing deeply at ogra
<herve> I should have asked ssh access to dholbach before he left
<ogra> herve, upload the source pkg anywhere
* tseng|work does a __thread mono test build
<tseng|work> who has a ppc?
<herve> hi nafallo!
<Nafallo> hi herve :-). how's it going?
<\sh> bahhh
<herve> ogra, http://deb.oursours.net/motu/
<herve> nafallo, still able to resist to the dark side!
<herve> (private joke inside)
<herve> ogra, thanks in advance!
<Nafallo> *s*
<ogra> herve, when does the error uccur ?
<ogra> s/u/o
<herve> how so?
<Nafallo> ogra: hi! care to translate something for me? ;-)
<herve> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/t/tulip/2.0.2-4ubuntu1/tulip_2.0.2-4ubuntu1_20050518-2012-amd64-failed.bz2
<Nafallo> Diese BIOS-Version verbessert ...
<Nafallo> - die Stabilitt der ACPI Eigenschaften.
<Nafallo> - die Systemstabilitt bei 3D Anwendungen.
<herve> nafallo: This BIOS version improves... - the stability of the ACPI characteristics. - the dependability with 3D applications.
<Nafallo> herve: ahh, thanks :-). I actually have had some trouble with my ACPI :-P.
<ozamosi> dependability? Shouldn't that be stability..?
<ogra> yep
<herve> I read mono is generating its gtk bindings by parsing the source... impressive!
<ogra> system stability
<herve> and why do the other bindings don't do the same? :-)
<Nafallo> hehe, I don't even use 3D ;-)
<herve> nafallo you will when firefox 1.1 will be improved by 3D acceleration ;-)
<herve> (nice usage of three time the do auxiliary ;-)
<Nafallo> herve: well. ati radeon mobility 9700 that give me nothing more than a black screen with fglrx ;-).
<herve> me too this morning
<herve> but just because someone
<herve> moved the fonts to another directory :-p
<Nafallo> herve: I got it any time I try :-). happens three times a year that I does or something ;-).
<Nafallo> s/does/do/
<ogra> herve, sorry, takes a moment, i'm updating my pbuilder...
<herve> ogra, no problem, I wasn't expecting it for at least tomorro
<ogra> ok
<\sh> that is really weired
<\sh> cdbs anyone?
<ogra> nah
<jbailey> \sh: Hmm?
<\sh> jbailey: u have time to check something?
<\sh> :)
<\sh> apt-get source kvirc ;)
<jbailey> \sh: Not at the moment, sorry.
<\sh> autotools.mk is processing all autotools stuff...even if it shouldn't be build
<\sh> kde.mk not...now I'm standing there with my ??? on my face
<ogra> \sh, ... why do you use autotools.mk  at all then ?
<\sh> ogra: the debian package is using it
<\sh> and I found my debdiff a bit strange ;)
<herve> I wouldn't trust all the packages I touched in the course of the motu :-)
<herve> night all!
<ogra> \sh, did you recognize #ubuntu-de ?
<\sh> ogra: no...i wasn't reading it for quite a while...whats up?
<ogra> someone gave the advise to do rm -rf / to someone who had no space left on his device....
<\sh> who?
<ogra> poxymox told it to gaulois2
<ogra> hmm, herves patch doesnt apply...
<\sh> fck...poor gaulois2
<ogra> yep
<blueyed> he is not a noob, he will not have done it.
<ogra> but poxymox is really sorry... guess he'll never do it again...
<ajmitch> hi
<\sh> i hope so...
<blueyed> ok, he has done it.. :/
<tseng|work> bye
<\sh> ok...this is really amazing
<\sh> kvirc is dirt
<\sh> basicplugin.tar.gz: basicplugin/*
<\sh>  tar cvzf basicplugin.tar.gz basicplugin
<\sh> this was the rule in one makefile.am
<\sh> and using autotools.mk tries to generate the project itself for basicplugin but it's only an example
<\sh> so removing the basicplugin/* helped
<\sh> as source target
<\sh> kvirc ready
<\sh> time to go to bed
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-27
<\sh> mako is spamming the planet ,-)
<ogra> \sh, hey, you are member now, give your rss feed url to jdub, so he can add it
<ogra> hmm, looks like his blog is broken
<\sh> ogra: later dude :) but thanks for reminding me :)
<\sh> i'm thinking only to aggregate my ubuntu category, just because there's a lot of noise for the other stuff..or should i give the full blog rss?
<\sh> night gents...:)
<tseng> hi
<StR> hi there....
<StR> i'm using breezy, and want to report a problem with my X complainig about the font 'fixed'
<Amaranth> X is not in universe
<StR> Amaranth: so, where should I report that?
<Amaranth> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<ogra> StR, its known.... and expected
<ogra> no need to report it
* ajmitch feels the pain from that issue as well :)
<ogra> heh, ajmitch it might get even worse :) who knows...
<ajmitch> hopefully
<ogra> changing such a big package as fundamental as daniels does must break...
<Amaranth> pfft, it's worse
<Amaranth> every shortcut key in gedit opens a new tab
<Amaranth> C-s, C-x, etc
<Amaranth> fixed fonts are less important :)
<ogra> Amaranth, we get rid of all X11R6 dirs and incorporate x cleanly.... so modules might not be found or fontsettings etc
<Amaranth> he is moving X into the real file tree?
<ogra> yep
<Amaranth> /usr/bin, /usr/lib, etc
<Amaranth> wow
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> various other packages have broken as a result of the directory change, as expected
<Amaranth> I thought that was an X.org 7 thing
<tseng> this is xorg 7 pre
<Amaranth> o_O
<StR> orga: why dou you know that?  where did you read that?
<ogra> *g*
<ajmitch> StR: because it's happening right now :)
<tseng> we know everything.
<tseng> (or in the changelog)
<ogra> in the several discussions and meetings i attended...
<ajmitch> ogra is in the inner circle now ;)
<StR> ajmitch: could you explane me what is happening?   what is the real problem?
<ajmitch> StR: X has been in /usr/X11R6 for time immemorable..
<Amaranth> we used to have /etc/X11/* and so on for all the X related things
<ajmitch> so programs expect that
<Amaranth> isn't this the kind of thing pkg-config was supposed to prevent?
<ajmitch> if used properly, by everything
<ogra> StR, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/XRoadmap
<StR> ogra: so... my breezy should work.. when?
<ogra> StR, if daniels is ready :)
<ogra> StR, and if the gcc4 transition is done...
<ogra> about 1,5~2 weeks...
<ogra> depends more or less on what breaks... nobody can tell...
<ogra> StR, but thats the nature of a development distro :)
<StR> ogra: ok... just to know every1 knows about the problem...
<ogra> StR, its even described in the roadmap...
<StR> ogra: I didn't know about the roadmap
<StR> so.. thanks
<ogra> "break out protocol headers, fonts, documentation, xterm"
<ogra> StR, i just posted the url above 10mins ago
<ogra> 5
<StR> ogra...  so.. thanks <-- for the link you pasted
<ogra> :)
<ogra> sorry, my bad
* StR needs a cigarret while thinking what he is going to do without X for 2 weeks
<ogra> StR, the path X searches must be in the log... find the new path and make a symlink....
<ogra> (something with X11R6 and fonts in it :) )
<tseng> i just fixed my xorg.conf by hand
<StR> tseng: what did you do?
<tseng> changed the paths?
<tseng> to /usr/share/fonts
<StR> :%s/what/\/usr\/share\/fonts    ?
<tseng> oh man dont do that
<tseng>  /usr/lib/fonts
<StR> tseng: and only that?
<tseng> thats all I did, yes
<StR> tseng: and restart X, right?
<tseng> yes?
<schweeb> is breezy completely broke right now?
<StR> schweeb: yes
<tseng> not completely
<schweeb> i.e. if I upgrade, will I still have enough functionality to have working X, tbird, gaim, and ssh
<StR> tseng fixed it
<StR> schweeb: with some hand job  ...
<tseng> omfgwee
<tseng> StR++
<ogra> lol
<Amaranth> /usr/lib/fonts/?
<tseng> yes?
<Amaranth> wtf were they thinking when they put fonts there?
<tseng> dude
<tseng> david fucking dawes
<tseng> comeon.
<Amaranth> don't know who that is
<Amaranth> /usr/share/fonts/ makes more sense
<tseng> xfree relicense?
<tseng> "we dont need no stinkin gpl"
* schweeb dist-upgrades to breezy
<Amaranth> oh, the moron that made it illegal to distribute XFree86 with GPL apps that run on top of it?
<tseng> yes
<schweeb> we'll see how horribly this goes
<Amaranth> btw, that license sounds a lot like the OpenSSL one
<schweeb> 3hrs to breezy
<Amaranth> hmm, it seems like lots of people are screwing with their blogs and totally breaking every planet i subscribe too
<tseng> its normally not their fault
<tseng> its the blog software
<Amaranth> if they do something that changes their RSS feed i'd say it's their fault :)
<tseng> i upgraded wordpress twice now with no such problem
<Burgundavia> ogra, ping
<ogra> Burgundavia, pong
<Burgundavia> ogra, http://www.onlamp.com/pub/wlg/7106
<ogra> cool
<Burgundavia> open source maps.google!
<ogra> http://maps.dmsolutions.ca/
<ogra> woah, thats cool
<Burgundavia> ya
<ogra> panning without reloading
<Burgundavia> and mapserver is a pretty robust solution already, and this builds on top of it
<ogra> yep, i once built a intranet mapserver based on it... it was already stable in 2000
<Burgundavia> am going to add the info to UbuntuGIS
<tseng> seen dredg?
<ogra> nope
<Amaranth> does that one have satellite images?
<Burgundavia> no
<ogra> tseng, not since quite some time
<ogra> Amaranth, good maps and images are still the expensive part on that
<Burgundavia> sat images are expensive
<Amaranth> yeah, but they're the thing i like about google's
<Amaranth> so you can look at things like http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=38.896741,-77.036594&spn=0.006137,0.009291&t=k
<ogra> yep... air pictures too
<Amaranth> btw, they changed the ammount you can zoom on that address
<ogra> which ? the google map ?
<Amaranth> the google map
<Amaranth> you used to be able to zoom in closer on that address
<Amaranth> the one google is showing, i mean
<ogra> o :(
<ogra> os/o/oh
<ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-May/035933.html
<tseng> oh no!
<tseng> i lost my blog banner thingy
<tseng> it was so cool and weird
<tseng> gar
<tseng> btw why are all the gtk+ keybindings barfed up
<ajmitch> probably because of X issues :)
<ogra> StR, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/XRoadmap
<ivoks> yo :)
<Amaranth> fun
<ivoks> :)
* HostingGeek smacks Travis Watkins
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: ?
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: ?
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: You said my name.
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: Actually, you smacked me.
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: You said my nick name.
<Amaranth> err, what?
<Amaranth> * HostingGeek smacks Travis Watkins
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: Actually, you  beeped me 4 times.
<Amaranth> I have no idea what you're talking about.
<HostingGeek> I AM PACKAGING XCHAT-GNOME
<HostingGeek> And I already have
<HostingGeek> No one else here should waste their time!
<HostingGeek> arghh seb128 can take it
<HostingGeek> I was packaging 0.3 but they didn't want me to... and now that 0.4 is out seb128 stole it from me
<_abbenormal> ok one around to help with xfce4
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: seb128 is a packaging machine, you can't compete with him
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: he stole it from me
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: I think I'd trust his package more than yours, see the machine comment.
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: Don't suppose you know anything about implementing DnD with GTK. :)
<HostingGeek> DnD?
<Amaranth> drag and drop
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: I know a tiny tiny bit... Like there is already such a thing and QT suck because it can't do it as good at GTK...
<Amaranth> ok, i'll go find someone who knows what they're talking about :)
<\sh> morning gents
<dahane> morning sir
<\sh> umm...looks like that I have to hurry up with showering and running into the office
<dahane> go go go
<\sh> no :)
<\sh> I'm old need my peace right now :) at least to many over hours
<dahane> hmm... seems like you want to be a Hartz4 victim :)
<\sh> dahane: hehe...no :) but with 40 hours on my gleitzeit table
<dahane> what about making "blau" hehe
<\sh> no :)
<\sh> ouch
<\sh> no peace at all...
<\sh> now i have to hurry up...just because some nagra machines are down :(
<\sh> bbl
<ivoks> thom: new firefox has some issue on my ubuntu
<\sh> re
<crimsun_> morning, mike
<tritium> Good morning, Daniel
<ogra> hey MOTUs
<crimsun_> hey, ogra :)
<tritium> Hi ogra :)
<doko> hey ogra
<ogra> hey doko... have to do some other stuff for 1-2h but then i'll dive back into Cxx :)
<siretart> jippie. londonlaw finally got built in breezy! :)
<SEBest> Hello masters!
<SEBest> I wrote a software, and also did an ubuntu package for it
<SEBest> and i'd like to know, what is needed to help him entering in universe
<SEBest> it's webpage is there:
<SEBest> http://gentoo.ovibes.net/nautilus-share/
<SEBest> any advice is welcome!
<ogra> SEBest, _you_ are the guy who wrote nautilus-share ???
<SEBest> ogra: yes
* ogra takes a bow to SEBest 
<ogra> great work !
<SEBest> thanx :)
<ogra> SEBest, i think seb128 in #ubuntu-devel would be intersted to meet you :)
<SEBest> ogra: i'm already in contact with him
<ogra> yay
<SEBest> ogra: we are both french we talked on ubuntu-fr
<ogra> we normally put new software on our MOTUNewPackages wiki page for reviews...
<SEBest> oki, let me check this page
<ogra> but the reviews take quite some time since we are not many people yet, so if you could get a review from seb128 it would speed up a bit i think, he has interest to have it available in ubuntu
<SEBest> ogra: oki, i'll add a line in the wiki, and ask seb128 for a review :)
<ogra> yeah
<SEBest> ogra, should i put the adress of the .deb or of the website where all info about debs are?
<ogra> SEBest, put a link to a webdir wher we find the source package on the site
<SEBest> ogra: oki i did it.
<ogra> great :)
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> is there a possibility to load a new partition layout at runtime? or only after reboot?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i shot the server and the server doesn't respond anymore *sing*
<\sh> i hope the harddrive is not +
<\sh> broken
<siretart> \sh: http://www.ncc.itgate.net/noc-humour.htm :)
<\sh> :))
<\sh> i wonder what happend. ping is working...bit the rest not...so i think he hangs somewhere
<\sh> we will see...remote hands informed...waiting for call :)
<\sh> and funny thing: nmap says: no ports opened..i think this is the most secured server in the world..;-9
<SEBest> the most secured server is the one with no network card
<SEBest> because you could still exploit a bug in the tcp/ip stack :)
<\sh> no ways it's ubuntu ;)
<siretart> SEBest: thats hardly a 'server' ;)
<SEBest> siretart: but there it's neither a server :)
<SEBest> siretart: a server of ping :d
<\sh> funny idea behind it, before I rebooted, I had a spare gentoo install on this machine (on the second harddrive) and this install i decided to delete
<SEBest> icmp echo reply
<SEBest> if it pings, it means it started the boot sequence, it's not looked in a kernel panic or somehting
<\sh> but I have sshd etc. in the runlevels
<SEBest> no firewall?
<\sh> no
<jamessan|work> is it waiting for an NFS mount that can't be reached?
<\sh> nfs?
<\sh> for what shoukld i use nfs :)
<SEBest> \sh you should install icmpsh :d
<jamessan|work> ok, so it's not that
<jamessan|work> I've had servers get stuck in the boot sequence attempting to mount an NFS share.  they weren't remotely accessible since that happens before services like sshd are started
<\sh> well..the guy in the DC has to plug a screen...so he can tell me where the machine hangs
<SEBest> jamessan, it depends on if you mount them with nolock option or not
<\sh> ah remote hands calling
<\sh> ready for action
<\sh> i need a serial cable for the next time and grub must be enabled for serial output
<\sh> and the kernel needs to have serial output possibility as well
<SEBest> \sh, or an ip kvm
<jamessan|work> SEBest: I'll have to remember that next time I have such a server
<\sh> remote insight board ;)
<\sh> but it's friday .. so everybody's going out and I have to fight with boot problems
<\sh> looks like i have to go to the DC by myself...screen doesn't show anything
<dholbach> hellas
<dholbach> hey SEBest :-)
<dholbach> SEBest: seb128 showed me your NICE share-your-nautilus-stuff-webpage *ROCK*
<ogra> dholbach, we already have it on MOTUNewPackages ;)
<dholbach> WOW, ROCK!!!
* dholbach bounces happily around SEBest 
<ogra> hehe
<jamessan|work> was that one of the Gnome bounties?
* dholbach cannot tell
<SEBest> thanx  dholbach  :)
<dholbach> how's the feeling: when will we be done with the C++ transition?
<dholbach> doko: what did we decide on ancient g++ build-depends? dropping them?
<doko> dholbach: yes, why not
<dholbach> ok
<doko> mention it in the changelog
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> doko: since when are you in debian?
<dholbach> do you recall a (internal) distribution name "frozen unstable"?
<dholbach> it shows up in the changelog :-)
<doko> in the old days uploads to more than one distribuition were allowed
<dholbach> oh nice
<dholbach> it was 1998 and it talks something about hamm, that's been a while
<herve> hello #ubuntu-motu!
<dholbach> hellas herve
<ogra> hey herve
<ogra> your patch didnt work ....
<herve> no!
<herve> nooooooooo!
<herve> too bad :-)
<ogra> it couldnt apply at all
<herve> erm
<herve> silly me... did I reverted the sources beforehand...
<herve> dholbach, could you provide me ssh access to an amd64 machine?
<dholbach> herve: yes
<dholbach> doko: libsigc++ (in universe) doesnt seem to be on the list
<dholbach> doko: i add it, ok?
<doko> it's old, isn't it? should it go to the morgue?
<dholbach> gtkmm uses it (which imho should go to the morgue as well) ;-)
<ogra> dholbach, i'm currently working on it...
<dholbach> (not gtkm2.{0,4})
<dholbach> ogra: which one
<ogra> there are some other libs depending on it
<ogra> but its on the list...
<ogra> wait
<dholbach> ogra: which package? gtkmm (source package, universe)?
<herve> doko, the debian sync have already been open?
<doko> herve: no
<herve> there about 30 "auto-installed" packages this afternoon, maybe more
<dholbach> don't we sync stuff from debian? i'm quite sure we do
<dholbach> that's how we got the MOM bugs :-)
<herve> I thought it was blocked during the transition
<herve> so I was suprised
<herve> and siretart (?) will be happy, londonlaw entered ubuntu :-)
<dholbach> yes :-)
<ogra> dholbach, sorry, false alert, its libsigcx
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> doko: we can' remove gtkmm just like that :-/
<dholbach> doko: i'll try building it with a newer libsigc++
<siretart> herve: yeah! :)
<siretart> but londonlaw is uncritical, it's an arch: any package (python game)
<herve> that reminds my I should refreshen and package mine
<herve> (refresh... don't pay attention, I'm drunk!)
<doko> herve: but no C++ stuff
<herve> ha ok
<herve> there's a fine blacklist
<herve> yo ivoks!
<ivoks> herve:
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> what's up?
<ivoks> i was in austria today
<herve> nice
<ivoks> i have to work on my german...
<ivoks> i forgot lot of words :(
<herve> how to say "beer"? :-)
<ivoks> hm :)
<ivoks> bier
<herve> I find strange ubuntu-desktop already pushes OOo 2
<herve> sure we're using breezy, but it's not stable enough
<ivoks> i don't care..
<ivoks> i'm not using office apps
<ivoks> :)
<herve> hmm... I can't transition tulip, I need other libs to transhumance first
<ivoks> i know :)
<ivoks> finally!!!!!!
<ivoks> ipw2200 supports monitor mode
<herve> whichs brings?
<ivoks> kismet will work on ipw220 based cards
<ivoks> so will airsnort
<herve> ok, not really useful for me
<ivoks> it is for me :)
<ivoks> hm... herve do you know networking? :)
<herve> I just want it to work and give me no problem :-)
<ivoks> heh... you are blessed :)
<herve> I always connect from the same point with my ipw2200
<herve> so I don't know the joice of configs, keys, and the like
<ivoks> i move my lap between varius networkg
<ivoks> networks...
<herve> your lap, you sure?
<herve> -:)
<ivoks> ?
<herve> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lap
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> i hate remote reboot :(
<ivoks> you newer know is everything going ok... then that tention...
<ivoks> and "omg, it should be up by now..."
<herve> it's like russian roulette :-)
<dholbach> doko: libsigc++ needs to be transitioned
<ivoks> uh... it's still not up :(
<ivoks> come on.... I don't want to go to the other side of town
<herve> ivoks, you're like a parent wondering why his child hasn't come home yet :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> herve: well... it's something like that
<ivoks> omg...
<ivoks> it didn't boot
<ivoks> why, god, why me?!
<ivoks> herve: that's router for over 300 machines :)
<herve> did you updated lilo? :-p
<ivoks> i didn't change kernel at all
<herve> (update)
<herve> fsck?
<ivoks> hm...
<herve> that was the 30th reboot!
<ivoks> could be... he was up for long long time
<herve> or 31, depending on the config, anyway
<ivoks> but 10 minutes is too mucj
<ivoks> man... fu....c.....k....
<herve> I saw devices to transfer screen output over the network
<ivoks> shit, i have to fix that... no mails, no web of my faculty till then
<ivoks> time to go....
<ivoks> bye
<herve> then the machine just went up...
<herve> :-)
<herve> yo tritium!
<dholbach> tritium: hey michael
<tritium> hi herve and dholbach :)
<tritium> dholbach, how's the school work coming along?
<dholbach> tritium: slowly evolving...
<dholbach> tritium: how's yours?
<tritium> dholbach, oh, it's got me pretty concerned/stressed
<dholbach> tritium: i can absolutely understand...
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> it looks like 161.53.50.2 is down...
<doko> dholbach: do you convert libsigc++?
<dholbach> doko: it's a HORRIBLE MESS
<dholbach> but i take care of it
<dholbach> doko: can i please do additional changes to the package?
<dholbach> doko: it hurts my eyes... badly
<ivoks> :))
<dholbach> doko: there's a complete    debian/libsigc++/usr/share/...
<dholbach> ok, maybe i'll to a c++ changes only upload and another one ;-)
<ogra> dholbach, is this libsigc++-1.2 ?
<dholbach> no, libsigc++
<dholbach> (source package)
<ogra> hrm
<dholbach> pourquoi?
<ogra> libsigcx uses it
<dholbach> so i better get a move on, right?
<tseng> what am i suppoised to do with blam
<ogra> no, libsigc++-1.2 is already transitioned
<ogra> but libsigcx doesnt build....
<herve> gaaah! g++ won't let me cast an object to unsigned
<herve> let it mind its own business! :-)
<dholbach> ah ok, ogra
<ogra> tseng, reading feeds ?
<tseng> no, c++
<herve> I guess an unsigned int is 64-bit long on amd64 and ia64?
<ogra> tseng, only waiting helps....
<tseng> ok...
<tseng> bbl then
<siretart> hm. I just found 2 minor bugs in mythtv source package, both causing FTBFS
<herve> do you know how to solve it?
<siretart> herve: yes, both affect amd64, probably only.
<siretart> herve: one is a build dependency, the other one is a wrong compiler flag
<siretart> still compiling here, but looking good
<herve> I'll happily sponsor your upload if needed
<siretart> great :) - but you know, its mdz's baby ;)
<herve> I step back then :-)
<siretart> lol
<dholbach> you can write him an email after you fixed it :-)
<siretart> I hope he's not too overworked with breezy, but emails are patient ;)
<herve> I quit, C++ hell is out of my skill
<ogra> siretart, he shouldnt be overworked since hes on holiday, but he'll have to catch up with a week of mail ;)
<dholbach> he's fast at writing mails :-)
<ogra> he reads -users mails ;)
<siretart> oh. good to know :)
<|QuaD-_> how well does hula work? is it buggy?
<herve> theorically speaking, of course not :-)
* Amaranth hopes g++4 is the last time they break ABI for a _long_ time
<ogra> ../sigcx/tunnel.h:223: error: no matching function for call to 'pack(SigC::Slot1<bool, const std::string&>&, const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)'
* ogra cries
<herve> and I was complaining!
<herve> :-)
<ogra> |QuaD-_, i didnt try to mail with it, but when i tested the package it worked well out of the box
<|QuaD-_> ogra: nice
<\sh> re
<herve> yo \sh!
<\sh> the server is up and running again...
<dholbach> hey \sh
<\sh> nice pitfall at least
<dholbach> \sh: a really nice blog entry!
<\sh> hoo?
<dholbach> \sh: thanks :-)
<\sh> ah u mean on linux.blogweb.de :)
<dholbach> planet.ubuntu.com :-)
<\sh> yeah its working and ogras artwork as well...:)
<\sh> thx to u guys :)
<dholbach> you did it yourself :-)
<\sh> :)
<\sh> and today i had this supergau ;)
<\sh> rebooted the server and hotplug bugged my machine
<herve> \sh, looking at your site, you're a trekkie? :-)
<\sh> herve: hehe...no not et al but I like the series...but really no hardcore trekkie
<herve> nor do I
<herve> but I like the humanity in stng
<herve> the original series is just by far too ridiculous
<dholbach> you have to see it in historic context :-)
<herve> sure, I can forgive them :-)
<dholbach> chief!
<chiefofthejojo1> hi!
<dholbach> welcome back! :-)
<chiefofthejojo1> :)
<chiefofthejojo1> thank you very much
<dholbach> :-)
<ogra> oh, hi chiefofthejojo1
<chiefofthejojo1> hi ogra
<chiefofthejojo1> I've been reading up on packaging so that I can try and help with that
<dholbach> of course!
<dholbach> you don't have to package new packages from scratch, you can rather start fixing existing ones
<dholbach> it's much easier
<chiefofthejojo1> ohhhh.  ok
<chiefofthejojo1> so, is there a list somewhere?
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> there are lots of bugs on malone, even easy ones, UniverseCxxTransition on the wiki is another big target
<chiefofthejojo1> I'm having a little trouble navigating the wiki, I couldn't find the list of packages that need help
<chiefofthejojo1> what's malone?
<dholbach> and some integrate patches into newer debian versions on bugzilla
<dholbach> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<chiefofthejojo1> oh
<\sh> ok..guys..one puzzle for the evening
<chiefofthejojo1> ohhhh, i get it
<chiefofthejojo1> what's the puzzle \sh?
<\sh> ok..kernel is booting
<\sh> hotplug is starting
<\sh> and ohci driver is sending to screen: "awake"
<\sh> 20-30 times per second
<\sh> epox server board , amd cpu
<herve> ohci?
<herve> it's a usb screen? :-)
<chiefofthejojo1> sorry, that's over my head
<\sh> over my head as well
<\sh> shell is there no problem
<\sh> but everything else is not working...eth0 device (realtek) is not communicating with the network nothing
<herve> \sh, isn't that the famous inotify mess?
<chiefofthejojo1> now, that's strange
<\sh> i don't really know..i never saw those strange behaviour
<\sh> after I stopped hotplug it was working as expected
<chiefofthejojo1> what device are you hotplugging?
<herve> \sh, custom kernel?
<\sh> no...just plain i386 ubuntu kernel :)
<\sh> chiefofthejojo1: officially no one...after my first boot of ubuntu on this server, hotplug wasn't even enabled
* herve trying to remember when and how the inotify mess happened
<chiefofthejojo1> so no device.. this is purely a software error with hotplug?
<\sh> chiefofthejojo1: the board itself has uhci and ehci devices on board (normal stuff)
<\sh> ohci is i think usb compaq special stuff
<herve> \sh, it's the official ubuntu kernel?
<\sh> herve: yes
<herve> well, I had it too when it happened
<herve> but only gamin lost its mind, not the kernel
<chiefofthejojo1> oh, ok
<\sh> so normally, ohci should be triggered in any way...only in the detect mechanism in the beginning...and normally he should throw away the ohci stuff
<Amaranth> herve: the inotify stuff i saw was the 2.6.11 kernel in hoary messing up when GNOME started and hard locking the machine
<\sh> i think my colleagues have another board of this in another testing machine...tomorrow i will bug them and ask for it to test it
<Amaranth> herve: are you talking about something else?
* \sh doesn't have any X starting at all :) i hope i removed all gnome and X stuff after debootstrapping ubuntu
<herve> Amaranth, I was trying to remember
<Amaranth> err, none of that stuff would be installed if you booted the installer with the server option
<herve> I also remember the kernel wilding printing messages on the console
<herve> so it would be at a later occasion...
<\sh> Amaranth: I can't use a cd during remote install
<\sh> Amaranth: and we should try to change base-config...to have a choice between plain ubuntu-desktop and pure server install
<\sh> not only on cd
<herve> \sh, you have some "server" option at boot up
<Amaranth> herve: not if he didn't use the CD
<Amaranth> \sh: wait, you mean you did the debootstrap in a chroot over SSH madness?
<herve> okay, it's sign I must go to bed :-)
<herve> night all
<Amaranth> night herve
<\sh> Amaranth: sure...from gentoo via ubuntu debootstrap over ssh ;)
<Amaranth> \sh: you're nuts
<\sh> Amaranth: it worked
<\sh> after 2 hours I transfered all data from gentoo to ubuntu with all services running (ok cyrus imapd package i build from debian experimental)
<\sh> apache2, php, mysql,bind,jabberd2 with all transports, and a couple of other things :)
<\sh> postfix + smtp auth + ssl/tls + cyrus imapd (ssl/tls) + amavisd-new and AntiVir
<\sh> everything is running
<dholbach> good night pals, i'm off to bed
<chiefofthejojo1> so, what did you do to fix it, \sh? sorry i went away for a bit
<ogra> \sh, hotplug != hotplug
<chiefofthejojo1> huh?
<ogra> \sh, ubuntus hotplug loads the modules for a lot of devices... it has not very much to do with hotplugging, even if it supports hot pluggable devices too
<\sh> chiefofthejojo1: as I said: /etc/init.d/hotplug stop
<\sh> ogra: it was the ohci driver who went mad
<\sh> he wrote on the screen: wakeup
<\sh> and this 20 to 30 times per second
<ogra> \sh, put it in /etc/hotplug/blacklist then
<\sh> ogra: well i don't need hotplug at all ;)
<ogra> but dont switch off hotplug completely...
<\sh> why not?
<\sh> I only need the realtek driver
<\sh> 8139too
<ogra> udev/hotplug and the kernel are a team....
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> so i have to blacklist all modules I don't need
<ogra> no, only the ones that autoload...
<ogra> .... because the hw is there but you dont want to use it....
<ogra> others arent autoloaded because they arent needed...
<\sh> ogra: i have 8139too in my /etc/modules
<\sh> where r the modules defined which are able to autoload via hotplug?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-28
<ogra> in /etc/hotplug.d afaik
<\sh> in hotplug.d/default is only 10-udev.hotplug and 20-hal.hotplug and default.hotplug
<ogra> yes, because the kernel triggers the loading of the modules through hotplug via udev...
<ogra> you might be able to override that somewhere...
<\sh> i think i have to check /etc/hotplug
<Pupeno> Hello
<ogra> hi
<Pupeno> I work with Lisp, so, for me, it is important to have recent versions of sbcl, slime, and lots of other packages related to Lisp. Ubuntu packages are outdated so I'm planning to make new packages whenever is possible. I notice for example, that there are some newer Lisp-related packages on Debian. So, what do you recomend me to do ?
<\sh> hehe..the next article on my blog will be the official "hello planet" article :)
<\sh> hidden message ;)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> Pupeno: [00:13]  <seb128> Pupeno: you should become a MOTU and help to maintain the packages
<\sh> Pupeno: say: Yes I will
<ogra> Pupeno, they will show up in breezy
<ogra> if they are in debian
<Pupeno> ogra: Ok, but I need them now on ubuntu 5.04 (I'm not reclaiming them, I just want to take the path that bests helps the community, because I am going to take one path or another).
<\sh> Pupeno: build the package for hoary and breezy
<Pupeno> ogra: If they are going to end up in breezy, I could set up my own repository of breezy lispy packages, or even help getting them into breezy, I'm not sure about that.
<\sh> Pupeno: and help your packages to become part of breezy
<ogra> you could even maintain them in breezy if you like....
<Pupeno> ogra: I won't be able to run breezy, I only have one computer and I need it running to work.
<Pupeno> \sh: yes, that's a possibility. Thank you.
<\sh> Pupeno: run a breezy chroot for dev work on breezy (like me) and have hoary as productive enviroment
<ogra> yeah
<Pupeno> \sh: that can be a good alternative... but I don't know how to do it, is there anywhere I can read about it ?
<ogra> no need to run breezy
<\sh> ogra: yeah...pbuilder env is also an alternative :)
<ogra> yop
<\sh> Pupeno: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources
<ogra> but in a rel chroot you can also test them
<ogra> real even
<\sh> orga: thats why I'm running breezy in chroot :) but is sometimes a pit ;)
<\sh> and I fall ;)
* ogra runs breezy fulltime in production....
<count0nz> Hi all
<\sh> ogra: if kde is running :) I will switch :)
<ogra> what else should i run to produce breezy :)
<\sh> 2005.0 ?
<\sh> hehe
<ogra> hi count0nz
<\sh> btw..do u have a gimp script for those hackergotchi stuff?
<ogra> nope
<count0nz> I have read the wiki page's :) (good boy i am), anyone packageing, xdtv, xawdecode, xawdecode-plugins ?
<\sh> ogra: that's why I was always bad in arts at school
<ogra> \sh, i do it manually.... and i think you wont get a edge detection that is good enough to cut out the shape of the head automatically
<ogra> i also adjust some colors or fix little one or the other little uglyness... you cant automate that
<\sh> strike freud is my friend
<count0nz> and if not (i don't want to do what someone else is doing) xawdecode-plugins is a grey area whuld that goto restricted somehow ?
<\sh> " Nobody is perfect, and I'm Nobody. Hehe..yeah, today it happened. My Ubunut server crashed."
<\sh> was is wrong here
<\sh> I will go to bed :(
<ogra> you are perfect ? oh, man...
<\sh> Ubunut server
<ogra> ehe
<ogra> cant you correct it ?
<\sh> sure...already did
<ogra> it takes some time until planet refreshes it :)
<ogra> count0nz, i'm lnot aware of anyone packaging it yet
<\sh> when is the reread time?
<ogra> no idea
<count0nz> ogra, kewl i don't want to tread on anyones toes
<ogra> count0nz, you cant, we have no personalized packages in ubuntu :)
<\sh>  /etc/init.d/hotplog stop
<\sh> another one
<ogra> plog ?
<ogra> heh
<count0nz> :) kewl
<count0nz> just some good tv apps that work well and want to help share the love :)
<\sh> i think this girl at hosteurope made me a bit how can I say...good looking and was quite interessted in the linux running on my box
<ogra> count0nz, sounds great
<ogra> \sh, i havent even seen the new hosteurope DC, i wouldnt know where to drive if my server crashed ;)
<\sh> ogra: if u have time tomorrow I could give u a clue :)
<count0nz> ogra, do you know what the xawdecode-plugins do tho i don't know if we are allowed to host it its GPL but its for decodeing pay tv what is the policy on that ?
<\sh> count0nz: decoding pay tv?
<\sh> what is different between paytv and dtv broadcast
<count0nz> yes... it descramples payTV (Analog tv signals
<ogra> count0nz, does it include any keys or something like that ... patented algorhythms etc ?
<\sh> u mean it removes macrovision?
<count0nz> ogra, no its uses brute force attack
<\sh> not allowed
<\sh> ogra: old premiere scrambling method over analog tv
<ogra> ah, yes...
<\sh> and removing macrovision
<\sh> not dtv unscrambling
<\sh> quite useless in germany anyways
<count0nz> not satalight i don't think many places use the older systems anyore
<ogra> uhh, thats illegal as libdecss2 .... i doubt we can pull it in....
<count0nz> np
<ogra> count0nz, could you write a mail to the ubuntu-devel list about that ?
<count0nz> its searchable on not if ppl want it thay will find it
<count0nz> yes i will
<\sh> count0nz: it's something else if you provide it on your own repos
<ogra> great, so we can hear other opinions about it
<\sh> or if it's distributed via CD where a company is in charge
<ogra> \sh, if its not totally illegal we can include it ... but that has to be determined
<count0nz> cos persionly i don't think its a big issue cos like we have restricted sets but i don't know i havent been in U long enough to know what it whuld be considered as
<count0nz> np
<\sh> ogra: the problem will be: the different laws :) what's allowed in china is not allowed in us or ermany or za ;)
<\sh> in us even reverse engineering is not allowed and brute force also not ;)
<ogra> \sh, same goes for other things too... thats why debian has non-us repos
<\sh> what about a different approach to this case
<\sh> I mean libdecss2 is only forbidden in this state of "illegal stuff", but if someone pays license fee for the algorythm
<\sh> -y+i
<count0nz> i'll email the devel people and see what happens
<\sh> it could be legal.
<count0nz> its as i say very grey
<\sh> so why not make an official ubuntu dvd player ;)
<\sh> with legal stuff attached :) fees payed...and 2-5 eur per download :) so we could pay the next ubuntu release party worldwide ;)
<count0nz> funny thing is here like the uk (nz) you have to pay a TV licence to even watch TV but on a pc you can watch tv without a tv (useing a tv tuner card) lol
<\sh> count0nz: this will change
<\sh> count0nz: in germany it's going to change at least next year
<\sh> count0nz: u have to pay a tv fee for computers just like for tvs
<count0nz> yes lol its kinds funny... i listen to Radio Excluvely via net now
<count0nz> \sh, wow
<count0nz> do you have a Radio licence there also ?
<\sh> count0nz: at least you pay this fee, cause u are _able_ to receive tv or radio streams via internet or with a tuner card
<count0nz> true
<\sh> it's called GEZ fee :) for the public tv/radio senders
* count0nz watchs \sh break his box
<\sh> yeah..troubled me this evening
<count0nz> another pet project of mine is a Thin Client project based on U :)
* count0nz going to start wrteing up guides on seting up mail server etc.... :) add to wiki :)
<\sh> messages:May 19 14:48:38 server3 kernel: ohci_hcd 0000:00:02.0: wakeup
<\sh> messages:May 19 14:48:38 server3 kernel: ohci_hcd 0000:00:02.0: wakeup
<\sh> messages:May 19 14:49:08 server3 kernel: ohci_hcd 0000:00:02.0: wakeup
<\sh> ogra:
<\sh> this is the real message
<ogra> what did google say ?
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> several hits concerning usb sticks
<Pupeno> Here's sbcl 0.9 packaged for Debian: http://people.debian.org/~pvaneynd/cl-packages/sbcl/  can I take that and re-package it for ubuntu ?
<\sh> different occurances in redhat, mandriva debian etc.
<|QuaD-_> are current packages compiled with gcc4 or 3.3?
<\sh> for breezy gcc4 should be the default
<ogra> Pupeno, rather contact the guy who packaged it in debian and ask him if he can get it in time into debian
<ogra> so we can just sync it...
<Pupeno> ogra: nope, this was packaged after the freeze: he says: "To keep the momentum in the cl packages during the freeze I created a apt-getables repository."
<|QuaD-_> \sh: so are they working on compiling all current packages with gcc4 or just as new packages are added
<Pupeno> where can I see (download/recompile) what packages are currently there on Breeze ?
<ogra> sarge will probably release before breezy, so chances are good that we can pull it from sid then
<ogra> dunno if breezy is already included, but you could try packages.ubuntu.com ;)
<\sh> |QuaD-_: check http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BreezyToolchainTransition
<Pupeno> sbcl on breezy is old as well.
<\sh> ogra: i think I know what the problem is...I saw it in early releases of 2.4 and 2.6
<\sh> there r some mainboards who r reporting wrong idents for their usb devices.
<\sh> kernel thinks it's an compaq usb device and tries to initialize it
<ogra> Pupeno, it was synced on may 9 the last time from sid
<\sh> but there is no compaq usb device so it failes
<\sh> mostly a bios bug
<ogra> hmm, possible
<Pupeno> ogra: Ok, I just need those packages so I'm going to make them work on hoary.
<\sh> Pupeno: make them work on breezy :)
<\sh> and for hoary :)
<\sh> hoary for yourself, breezy for the masses :)
<Pupeno> \sh: I need them to start working, so, I'm just going to make them work on hoary now, and latter, I'll see what can I do.
<|QuaD-_> \sh: so they are currently converting the libs to gcc 4.0?
<ogra> you should be able to build them without problems...
<\sh> |QuaD-_: and to g++4 yes
<ogra> a simple fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage should be enough
<Pupeno> ogra: when I find out how to build them ;) I'm 100% new to dev (I know portage and rpm though).
<\sh> Pupeno: url to the source?
<Pupeno> \sh: I don't know, this is all I know: http://pvaneynd.blogspot.com/
<ogra> Pupeno, first get all build dependencys, i guess hey will be similar between the versions...
<ogra> Pupeno, get them with: sudo apt-get build-dep sbcl
<ogra> then put the source in one dir....
<ogra> install build-essential, fakeroot and devscripts
<ogra> then go into the dir with the source files and run: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage *.dsc
<ogra> thats all
* Pupeno saves that.
<ogra> you'll find the .deb in the above dir
<ogra> install it with: sudo dpkg -i *.deb
<|QuaD-_> how do i get involved with ubuntu-motu?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, arent you already ?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: how do i become a member?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i am not a member yet
<ogra> i mean you are here daily... what better start do you want ;)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: haha yeah, i want to start packaging, etc
<|QuaD-_> ogra: give back some :)
<ogra> help with some packages, fix bugs, write a howto, make a background image etc
<ogra> any contribution counts for membership....
<|QuaD-_> ogra: how do i help with packages or fix ugs?
<Pupeno> |QuaD-_: in most free software project, you do and then you get the label, not the other way arround.
<ogra> pick a bug in malone... look at the package, fix the bug, make a patch, attach it to the bug :)
<|QuaD-_> ogra: is there a tutorial on how to start>
* |QuaD-_ has never packaged anything
<ogra> look at the MOTU wiki page, there are some links and the debian new maintainers guide is a good start too
<|QuaD-_> is there a link to malone?
<count0nz> |QuaD-_, this is usefull researching myself :)
<count0nz> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/HelpingKubuntu
<count0nz> (ignore the K :) lol
<schweeb> yay, I'm on breezy now!
<|QuaD-_> count0nz: haha :) thanks
<Pupeno> ogra: whne you say the dir with the sources... what exactly are you talking about ? the original tarball or some kind of deb source ?
<count0nz> i'me new here (to U) and i think we need to sit down and write Lots of usefull Wiki pages
<\sh> ogra: universe has higher prio even if u put it into sources.list
<count0nz> HOWTO's
<count0nz> Add more packages
<count0nz> Fix Bugs
<ogra> the stuff you downloaded... a debian source package should be a orig.tar.gz file, a diff.gz and a .dsc file
<Pupeno> ogra: oks, thanks.
<\sh> Pupeno: 5mins :)
<ogra> |QuaD-_, oh, btw first step to become a member is to create a wikipage about yourself if you havent already
<|QuaD-_> ogra: i should create a webpage before i actually do anything?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, yes
<|QuaD-_> ogra: one thing i have been considering making for a while is a gui version of apt-cache, would that be useful?
<ogra> |QuaD-_, a wikipage about yourself... who you are, what you do etc...
<ogra> |QuaD-_, hmm, you mean a shrunk down synaptic ?
<|QuaD-_> ogra: yeah, synaptic you need root priveleges
<|QuaD-_> (i think)
<ogra> you do
<|QuaD-_> so just a simple app to learn python
<\sh> huu
<ogra> sure, sounds good
<\sh> Source: sbcl
<|QuaD-_> its nice having 2 weeks off :)
<\sh> Build-Depends: sbcl (>= 1:0.9.0.0-1)
<|QuaD-_> are there any nice ebooks for learning python and pygtk?
<Pupeno> \sh: mh ?
<\sh> strange
<ogra> |QuaD-_, this is a perfect example pag for a wiki page: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DanielRobitaille
<\sh> a source which build-deps itself
<|QuaD-_> ogra: whoa, that is a pretty intense page
<ogra> yep
<Pupeno> \sh: don't you need gcc to build gcc ?
<Mithrandir> you need a c compiler to build gcc.
<Pupeno> \sh: sbcl is a compiler as well as gcc :)
<Mithrandir> but gcc can be bootstrapped using many other compilers than itself.
<\sh> doesn't have gcc a bootstrap small c ?
<Pupeno> Mithrandir: ok, technically, you need a common lisp compiler to build sbcl, but I don't know how true is that in practice.
<Mithrandir> \sh: that's probably the least coherent sentence I've seen today. :-)
<\sh> forget it i'm tired ;)
<Mithrandir> Pupeno: so it should build fine using (say) clisp?
<\sh> no
<\sh> not with this package
<Pupeno> Mithrandir: I'm not sure.
<\sh> hmm...
<Pupeno> \sh: that's another matter.
<\sh> i was sure, gcc can compile itself without anything else ;)
<Mithrandir> it's not uncommon to have to bootstrap a new port somewhat by hand
<Mithrandir> \sh: no, it can't.
<\sh> someday it will
<Pupeno> \sh: no.
<\sh> don't say no :)
<\sh> I had a dream
<ogra> \sh, apt-cache showsrc gcc-4.0
<ogra> look at the build-deps
<\sh> ogra: i fooling around now ;)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> I'm
<\sh> let me compile this piece of software for breezy
<\sh> it's just finished
* \sh is playing "Father & Son" by Cat Stevens on Greatest Hits
<\sh> Pupeno: stops with an error
<\sh> sbcl: in x86-arch
<Pupeno> What error ?
<\sh> invalid lvalue in increment
<\sh> :88 :286 :273
<\sh> u can try it under hoary
<Pupeno> you probably need http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/sbcl/sbcl-0.9.0-x86-linux-binary.tar.bz2?download
<\sh> get the diff.gz, .dsc and orig.tar.gz or tar.gz
<\sh> i just installed the sbcl from breezy
<\sh> its good as build dep
<Pupeno> \sh: 0.8.17 might not be able to build 0.9.0, you may need 0.9.0 to build 0.9.0 (weird, isn't it ? ;)
<\sh> why isn't it complaining
<\sh> ah
<\sh> reezy)shermann@shermann-laptop:~/breezy/lisp$ sbcl
<\sh> This is SBCL 0.9.0.39, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp.
<\sh> let me try something
<\sh> no wonder
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> 0.9.0.39 doesn't compile with 0.9.0.39
<Firetech> hmm.. Freenode's website says that I have to identify myself (nickserv) atleast once every 60 days. Do I have to do that even if I'm connected to the network 24/7? (it's a little bit of wrong channel, but I thought you guys would know...)
<\sh> if you're identified u stay identified until u disconnect
<\sh> now i screwed up everything
<Firetech> I don't have to make a script to reidentify myself every 60 days then? ;)
<\sh> as i said
<Pupeno> \sh: so, you manage to build it ?
<\sh> Pupeno: no...
<\sh> i used the binary from his page
<ogra> woah, weird, there is a .core file in the tarball with the binary
<ogra> its 23M
<Pupeno> ok.
<\sh> and it was 0.9.0.39
<\sh> so i tried to build sbcl 0.9.0.39 with itself :)
<\sh> and it throws errors
<Pupeno> \sh: oh, that one didn't install on here, dependency problems.
<\sh> ogra: this lips stuff?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> Pupeno: no problem here
<ogra> in the surceforge download
<\sh> under breezy
* ajmitch returns
<\sh> ogra: i used the package repos and dpkg-source -x *.dsc ;)
<ogra> \sh, i looked at the sourceforge download Pupeno posted....
<Pupeno> ogra: that is the official binary distribution.
<\sh> but I'm really scared now
<ogra> Pupeno, there is a .core file....
<ogra> its a huge download because of this ...
<\sh> http://www.basquiat.de/gallery/album01/kapple?full=1 this is absolutly nice and eyecandy
<Pupeno> ogra: I believe that should be the main image or something like that.
<\sh> ogra: build errors when build with an actual version ;)
<\sh> Pupeno: use emacs my advice ;)
<Pupeno> \sh: why do you say that ?
<\sh> Pupeno: cause of elisp ;) it's stable ;)
<\sh> just joking
<Firetech> Oh, one thing I can mention while I'm here... The version of KVIrc in Hoary Universe (2.1.3.1) is kinda old, and doesn't work with international characters. The .deb's on www.kvirc.net (3.2.0) works well in Hoary, though.
<Pupeno> I use emacs to code common lisp, because slime rules :D
<\sh> Firetech: is it in debian unstable?
<Firetech> I don't know, but I'll check.
<ogra> Pupeno, youre right, the core file is the actual binary...
* count0nz Cry
<count0nz> arrg
<Firetech> \sh: it's only in experimental.
* count0nz cry's oh that screenie is soooooooooooooooooo sexy :))
<\sh> Firetech: then it will not be synced right now in breezy...lemme check later for 3.2.0 after cxx transition
<Firetech> ok
<count0nz> Hay Breezy got E yet or better E17 :)
<count0nz> well i know E16 is in hoary
<\sh> guys i need to go to bed...
<\sh> later this morning dudes
<\sh> g'night
<Firetech> well, good night then ;)
<count0nz> night \sh
<Pupeno> building....
<Pupeno> bye \sh
* Firetech goes crazy on kvirc-3.2.0-sarge2, and goes back to sarge1.
<Pupeno> ok, it didn't work.
<Pupeno> I've run `fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage`... I believe it would have worked if it respected my $PATH, any idea how I can do that ?
<Pupeno> Mithrandir: according to sbcl's documentation, you can build it with clisp.
<Pupeno> compiling :D
<tseng> hi
<Burgundavia> salut
<Burgundavia> how goes the mono life?
<tseng> fine thank
<tseng> s
<tseng> i just moved my desktop into my appartment
<tseng> i might have to work on (sane) hoary mono backports :(
<tseng> for luis
<tseng> and go-mono.com
<tseng> might be better than a bunch of tools running breezy
<Burgundavia> are we talking 1.1.7 on hoary?
<lamont> tseng: the words "sane" and "backport" don't fit in the same sentence.  At least not for ubuntu
<tseng> Burgundavia: maybe
<Burgundavia> tseng, your crazy, did you know that?
<tseng> Burgundavia: i really want luis to wait and build his cd on breezy
<Burgundavia> but the forums people will love you
<tseng> well, i wouldnt even consider it, but meebey is planning to do the same thing
<tseng> for sarge
<Burgundavia> tseng, if you do, make sure that you coordinate with the backports people to remove 1.1.7 from their repo. I can do that if you wish
<lamont> tseng: sarge backports make sense, given the speed of the release cycle...
<tseng> hm
<Burgundavia> backported over a 6 month release cycle is mostly nuts
<tseng> uh
<tseng> they are backporting my 1.1.7 already?
<tseng> im not a fan of that
<Burgundavia> tseng, I believe they have
<tseng> its like, 70% there
<lamont> hoary's been out for a month already.  of course the forums people are busy backporting breezy to it
<tseng> well last i looked they had 1.1.6 from debian experimental, which is a *bit* more sane
<tseng> 1.1.7 broke some apps upstream, and we have a broken dbus binding for now
<tseng> and im *sure* backports doesnt have nearly the "wealth" of knowledge on the subject that ive beaten into my head by now
<Burgundavia> tseng, yes they have
<tseng> BUH
<tseng> can i hurt them?
<tseng> or is that in violation of the CoC
<Burgundavia> your target is jdong
<tseng> "ZOMG FASTER BEAGLE THAT DOESNT WORK WITH DBUS!!!!ELEVENTEEN"
<Burgundavia> wow, the backports people have been busy
<tseng> where is jdong?
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=780
<tseng> uh
<tseng> i have to sign up to flame him?
<Burgundavia> tseng, no you can send him an email
<tseng> hm rock on
<tseng> Occupation:
<tseng> High school student.
<tseng> this will be a challenge
<Burgundavia> the other member of the backports team is jdodson
<Burgundavia> tseng, they usually don't backport things like mono
<Burgundavia> they actually are more sane then they look
<tseng> uh dude
<tseng> i read their changelog the other day
<tseng> lets see if i can find it
<tseng> #Pymusique supposedly still has dependency issues.
<tseng> #./restricted/binary-i386/pymusique_0.5-1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
<tseng> # adesklets plugins still don't work. Considering removal.
<tseng> #./universe/binary-i386/adesklets_0.4.8-1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
<tseng> their comments reguarly make me think they cant/dont read debian/*
<tseng> and actually do some leg work
<Burgundavia> they are pulling stuff from unstable/experimental as well
<tseng> yes
<Burgundavia> that is crazy
<tseng> they had 1.1.6 before I did, or soon after
<tseng> at least i dont see a bunch of ~ in their version strings today
<tseng> oh wait
<tseng> ./main/binary-i386/gaim-data_1.3.0-1~5.04ubp1_all.deb
<tseng> wth is that?
<tseng> (rhetorical question)
<tseng> ill mail him sometime about smoking mono crack
<Burgundavia> is there a way we can force udp stuff to be overwritten at upgrade time?
<tseng> we could, but i doubt any of the cannonical guys even want to give it that much mindshare
<Burgundavia> the issue is, backports exist
<Burgundavia> and people are using them
<tseng> i think its definately a community issue that we have to deal with somehow
<tseng> not in dpkg
<Burgundavia> therefor, we need to coordinate, so that they don't break upgrades
<tseng> eh
<tseng> i tell people not to use it *because* it breaks upgrade
<tseng> s
<Burgundavia> yes, so do I
<Burgundavia> but telling people doesn
<Burgundavia> stop them using it
<Burgundavia> people are already clammering for mono developer 0.7
<Burgundavia> they think you are a robot, that does nothing but package
<crimsun_> sigh. Finally, the weekend. Time for ubuntu-catchup. :/
<Amaranth> ha, pymusique has dependency issues
<Amaranth> i told them the dependencies
<Burgundavia> is pymusique even in Ubuntu?
<Amaranth> nope
<Amaranth> neither is smeg but they put it in their universe instead of extras
<Amaranth> i think they put pymusique in their universe too
<Burgundavia> ok then
<Burgundavia> smeg is gnomes menu editor, no?
<Amaranth> smeg is mine
<Amaranth> for gnome
<Amaranth> gmenu-simple-editor is the one in gnome-menus
<Burgundavia> ah
<Amaranth> i figure i'll have 0.6 out tomorrow and blow gmenu-simple-editor away again :)
<Amaranth> i mean, 0.5 does now but it's ugly
<Pupeno> hello
<Pupeno> how do I set the version of a Debian package to be x.y.zubuntu ?
<crimsun> change debian/changelog
<crimsun> or use dch -v
<Pupeno> 0.9.0.19-1 becomes 0.9.0.19-ubuntu1 ?
<crimsun> no
<crimsun> 0.9.0.19-1ubuntu1
<crimsun> keep Debian's version and append "ubuntu$x" where $x is our revision
<Pupeno> dch: fatal error at line 586:
<Pupeno> New version specified (0.9.0.19-1ubuntu1) is less than
<Pupeno> the current version number (1:0.9.0.19-1)!
<crimsun> you're missing the epoch
<crimsun> 1:0.9.0.19-1ubuntu1
<Pupeno> oic.
<Pupeno> thanks.
<crimsun> np
<Pupeno> At last I was able to trigger the compilation of sbcl-0.9.0 agains sbcl-0.9.0... this time, it might work.
<Burgundavia> tseng, http://backports.ubuntuforums.org/faq.php for the ~ issue
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: well, that's good
<Burgundavia> I can't find any supporting docs for it
<Burgundavia> but I assume it is true
<hsprang> hi!
<Unfrgiven> hi hsprang
<Pupeno> I have just finished packaging sbcl 0.9.0 for (k)ubuntu! :D
<Burgundavia> it will never hit hoary
<Burgundavia> hoary is frozen
<Pupeno> that's not important, I have the package I need, and make it available for others that need it.
<Pupeno> Burgundavia: besides, it'd be easier to port this package from hoary to breezy than from debian to breezy (specially since this package is even newer than what sid currently has).
<koke> morning all!
<Burgundavia> Pupeno, more useful for breezy overall, not to devalue your efforts, it to package stuff that isn't in Debian or Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> Pupeno, there must be cool lisp stuff that isn't done
<Pupeno> Burgundavia: I need to work, to put food on my table, and for that, I needed a newer version of sbcl, so, the community gain is a plus, but not my motivation.
<Burgundavia> Pupeno, ok
<Pupeno> If I have time, I'll make a breezy chroot and port it to breezy, but I need a ton of other packages to make.
<Pupeno> as I said, porting to breezy should be just a mater of re-compiling.
<zyga> hello
<zyga> is there any particular reason why mc is not in main?
<Burgundavia> zyga, they don't want to support it?
<\sh> morning
<siretart> hi \sh
<GheRivero> res
<\sh> damn I slept again
<\sh> with the laptop on my hips
<tseng> holy crap, i need to rewrite the now playing bit on my blog now!
<tseng> audioscrobbler has an rss feed
<tseng> i can just talk to amazon web services and get the art
<\sh> i don't get it..whats the hype about audioscrobbler?
<tseng> http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/bhale/
<tseng> it will be alot better than the thing im doing now
<tseng> which is a horrible bash hack on top of muine-shell
<tseng> i just need to learn how to parse rdf in php now
<\sh> this is easy there is a lib for it
<tseng> yeah?
<tseng> in pear?
<\sh> w8 let me check
<\sh> i have to check if s9y is using this lib
<\sh> XML_RSS
<\sh> is in pear
<\sh> http://pear.php.net/package/XML_RSS/docs
<tseng> rdf is rss, right?
<tseng> too many xml schemas
<tseng> ....done: 3,515 bytes
<tseng> install ok: XML_RSS 0.9.2
<tseng> rock on.
<\sh> rdf is the superset it think of rss
<\sh> s/it/I/
<\sh> ok...let me shower, get some food and drinks and after all this, lets work further on cxx trans
<marios> hello everyone
<\sh> hi marios
<marios> why's nobody talking about developing, packaging, etc.?
<\sh> sleeping, working on other things
<marios> ok then :)
<\sh> marios: working on the cxx transition..
<marios> ok, I just had one question but ok, I'll decide it by myself
<marios> I was wandering is there any app that is now missing that needs to be developed?
<marios> I promised Makoto Hill (if I am not mistaken ;) ) that I will do some app
<Mithrandir> probably Mako Hill
<marios> oh yes :)
<tseng> look over udu.wiki.ubuntu.com
<tseng> BreezyGoals are things to be developed
<marios> I looked at that
<marios> but it seems every goal has it's developer
<marios> can I write a new goal maybe? :)
<tseng> you can propose one
<tseng> it wont automatically become a "goal"
<|QuaD-_> marios: you can also look at the bounties
<tseng> good call.
<Mithrandir> or you can look at how you can help out with the existing ones.  A lot of them are not highly prioritised.
<|QuaD-_> marios: i believe this si that page for bounties: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/bounties/document_view
<marios> looking at it
<ogra> so who is annoyed by bzipped build logs here ?
<marios> I believe I could adress this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136871
<|QuaD-_> marios: so start working on it
<\sh> ogra: what?
<ogra> who is annoyed by bzipped build logs ?
<ogra> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/
<ogra> ;)
* Mithrandir tickles ogra
* ogra laughs
<|QuaD-_> thats a lot prettier than http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<ogra> |QuaD-_, prettiness was only a side effect
<Mithrandir> it's only 3G on p.u.c, I could host that easily enough on my irc box.
<marios> starting right now ;)
<\sh> mod__bunzip2
<ogra> Mithrandir, i'll put it on p.u.c once i have my access
<|QuaD-_> ogra: ohhh
<ogra> \sh, nah, pure python
<\sh> ogra: u used mod_bunzip2?
<Mithrandir> ogra: it's probably a no-go, due to it consuming large amounts of bandwidth, I'd imagine.
<\sh> ogra: nice :) wheres the source...
<Mithrandir> (as in, non-bzip2-ed ones)
<ogra> Mithrandir, it pulls the bzipped one over and unpacks it on the fly.... so you only have reasonable traffic for the one that gets unpackad currently...
<ogra> ...in the output stream....
<ogra> i dont think thats a traffic hog...
<Mithrandir> ogra: I was more thinking about if you put it on p.u.c
<ogra> the it will still only produce traffic with the unpacked file.... i thought the main reason for bzipping was diskspace, but i may be wrong
<Mithrandir> I thought it was bandwidth
<ogra> hmm
<Treenaks> http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2005052441521.gif
<Mithrandir> better talk to elmo, I guess.
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but for now, i want to be able to see buildlogs without downloading them :) so i'll leave it up...
<ogra> (since i guess elmo is still away)
<Mithrandir> it's weekend, he should be away.
<ogra> heh, whois says he's only idle for 2h :)
<marios> good bye
<marios> see you in bugs pool :D
<tseng> holy crap, gtd_tiddlywiki rocks
<|QuaD-_> is that the javascript wiki thing?
<tseng> yes
<|QuaD-_> i was reading about it yesterday
<tseng> its all dhtmld and stuff
<Treenaks> it's browser-based.
<|QuaD-_> isn't a server side script required to store stuf?
<tseng> no
<|QuaD-_> how does it store stuff
<tseng> it saves over itself
<|QuaD-_> on the server?
<tseng> its 1 html file
<tseng> there is no "sever"
<tseng> you just need to try it, there is nothing to install
<tseng> tbermans blog on planet.gnome.org
<|QuaD-_> lemme look
<\sh> 2. ride over coin2
<|QuaD-_> interesting
<tseng> oops
<|QuaD-_> but i gotta run
<tseng> i removed the main menu
<|QuaD-_> ttyl
<\sh> 0nly a few left for the transition
<juanmals> hi everybody , I wish to know what do I have to do if i want my project to be included in the official repositories
<chiefofthejojos> post it for review on the wiki?
<juanmals> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU?
<juanmals> there?
<\sh> juanmals: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<juanmals> thans \sh
<ogra> juanmals, depends, if you already made a ubuntu source package, yes
<ogra> juanmals, if yu only want it included, put it on UniverseCandidates
<juanmals> No , I ve never done a packagefor ubuntu
<ogra> so put it on the UniverseCandidates page then :)
<ogra> and either learn packaging here, or wait that someone from here packages it ;)
<juanmals> We have done the deb package
<dahane> ach was
<ogra> so you also have a source package
<juanmals> yes
<ogra> thats a good start ;)
<ogra> then you can put a link to the source package on MOTUNewPackages ;)
<\sh> dahane: ??
<dahane> das war nen kollege grad der vor mein pc sass...
<juanmals> thanks a lot ogra
<ogra> dahane, wer ?
<juanmals> how do I add it in MOTUNewPackages, I only find a list, no form or any other way to add a package to be revised
<\sh> juanmals: log into the wiki -> edit this page
<juanmals> ok
<dahane> don't think that you now him ogra ;)
<juanmals> I do have to log in, I had not seen it sorry
<ogra> dahane, i didnt expect to :)
<\sh> well, this is really nice..listening to bon jovi and hacking on stuff while laying on the bed and relaxing
<dahane> ok, i'm afk now. we want to grill some wrstchen :>
<dahane> cya's
<ogra> dahane, na denn viel spass :) geniess das wetter...
<\sh> 3. coin2 ide
<\sh> +r
<juanmals> \sh I don't reallly understand how do I add the package, I've registered and logged in, and when I click edit, I am behind a form to modify the content
<\sh> juanmals: right :) and now take the examples from the other people in this source and adjust it to your infos for your package
* \sh needs a bablefish
<juanmals> but I dont know who will be the package mantainer
<\sh> juanmals: if you build the package...you are
<juanmals> ok
<juanmals> I thought that it was like debian, in wich only a dd can mantain a package
<jamessan> that's not the way it is in debian
<jamessan> I maintain a few debian packages and I'm not a dd  :)
<juanmals> But  to include a package in debian it has to be sponsored by a debian dev
<juanmals> that checks wheter the package is built correctly
<\sh> its the same here with ubuntu :)
<juanmals> So I have to list the package there and the an ubuntu dev will sponsor my package
<\sh> juanmals: right
<herve> hi!
<ogra> hey herve
<\sh> huhu herve#
<herve> yeah, sharp herve :-)
<herve> but exhausted
<herve> I climbed at 1500 meters high, a 2.5 km walk
<herve> but the sightseeing was fantastic
<\sh> wow
<\sh> well, next year i will do a nice long holiday but right now too much work to do
<\sh> so nothing with real relaxing ;)
<herve> sadly, I forgot my camera!
<herve> what happened to the sound output?
<herve> it's awful!
<herve> \sh, you're working too much :-)
<\sh> I have to get the money for my exwife ;)
<\sh> s/get/earn/
<herve> time for a flammekueche :-)
<\sh> for a what?
<herve> ogra knows!
<\sh> flammkuchen ?
<\sh> ogra: !translate flammekueche
<herve> \sh, use google image :-)
<herve> but no google smell yet!
<herve> see you
<\sh> ah
<\sh> flammkuchen :)
<\sh> the alsace type of pizza ;)
<doko> \sh: so, which packages do you want to have reviewed first?
<\sh> doko: no one :) i saw only that u already reviewed 2 of them ;)
<abelli> ciao
<zyga> is there any legal way to get adom into universe/restricted-universe?
<siretart> zyga: what is adom?
<zyga> siretart: adom.de, ancient domains of mystery, a popular rougelike game
<zyga> siretart: it's not FOSS unfortunatly
<siretart> zyga: under what conditions may it be distributed?
<zyga> siretart: license retainded and such stuff, wait
<siretart> zyga: if I read the FAQ correctly, there is not even sourcecode available.
<zyga> siretart: exactly, it's close sourced
<zyga> siretart: but it may be redistributed freely
<siretart> zyga: this would meen, that this game is unredistributable. the only way would be to package an installer for adom, and distribute that with ubuntu
<siretart> zyga: but precompiled binaries will not be distributed with ubuntu
<zyga> siretart: that's acceptable
<zyga> siretart: well some drivers are (nvidia, ati)
<siretart> zyga: the installer is the way how sun java, or the non free flash plugin is packaged
<siretart> zyga: jay, but I wouldn't dare even ask #ubuntu-devel for that ;)
<jay> how'd i get pulled into this? :P
<siretart> to be honest, you're right, there are some exceptions for the binary only drivers, for being able to support more hardware.
<zyga> siretart: only once thing concerns me
<zyga> siretart: (you can see the license by running ./adom -b, I could not find it online)
<zyga> siretart: paragraph 3 says: you can redistribute adom only as a package in which you recived it
<zyga> siretart: and the package is a .tar.gz containing adom binary and three txt files (readme's and manuals)
<siretart> zyga: ok. that means that adom is unfortunatly not distributable for ubuntu
<zyga> siretart: adom developer is FOSS friendly and I think he might change that if it suits us better
<zyga> siretart: but I'm also thinking about less difficult approach ;-)
<zyga> siretart: ubuntu could have a simple script that fetches the .tar.gz, and extracts it to proper places
<siretart> zyga: yes, that would be possible. to package an installer, like the flashplugin-nonfree installer
<siretart> and put that to contrib, err multiverse
<zyga> siretart: one last thing adom binary should go to /usr/games or to /usr/bin?
<siretart> hm. would your package support easy uninstallation upon removal?
<siretart> if yes, then /usr/games. if not, I'd propose /usr/local/adoms, but I'd rather hear more opinions..
<zyga> siretart: I'm not familiar with building debs, I can quickly give you a adom-installer.sh that will accept uninstall argument
<herve> I doubt the policy or lsb let writing into /usr/local
<zyga>  /usr/games is bettter IMHO
<herve> anyway, I doubt the interest of such a package
<siretart> herve: me too.
<siretart> zyga: better let the caller decide in which directory it should install adoms
<zyga> siretart: err, that would require debian-like 100 questions left installer
<zyga> siretart: I'm targeting something like: apt-get install adom
<herve> showing the adom developers the opportunities of opening their code is better
<siretart> zyga: yes, I didn't say interactive, I said 'let the caller of you shellscript decide'
<zyga> herve: that is not going to happer - there is only one developer and he stated opening the source would reveal lots of secret stuff about game plot and he does not want that to happen
<herve> sad
<zyga> the way adom is written probably makes it impossible to split code from data
<herve> but it never prevented gamers from cheating in windows games ;-)
<siretart> herve: well, his userbase seems to be diffrent from the typical 'windows gamer' ;)
<zyga> herve: it's not about cheating really - after about ten years or so many things in this game are still a mistery
<zyga> herve: compare that to nethack's apt-get source nethack
<herve> I'm not in the nethack thing at all ;-)
<siretart> zyga: his motives are understandable. but you must also see the point of view for the ftpmasters of ubuntu
<zyga> siretart: I'm trying to get the best of both worlds
<siretart> zyga: ubuntu is about free software. adoms is cleary not free. there is some other non free software in ubnut, thats right. but thats not our main goal
<herve> and people can easily use the binary
<jay> if it's as simple as a tar xzf adom.tar.gz to run it what's the point in packaging it?  especially considering its audience
<siretart> zyga: an installer package would be acceptable, but as herve said, we have doubts how many user would rather use the installer than installing it directly as upstream suggests
<herve> and I suspect the audience of adom is geeks ;-)
<zyga> herve: you suspect partially right ;-)
<zyga> that'll be my personal learn-deb-packaging-quest ;] 
<herve> there are better ways to learn debian packaging
<herve> starting with helping foss projects needing it
<ogra> yeah, transitioning C++ packages for example ....
<zyga> herve: this one will serve a purpose, others would probably be academic, no?
<herve> zyga, which purpose, since it is already packaged in a tarball
<herve> ubuntu packages are not academic, there are the reality of 99% the archive
<zyga> herve: being able to install it via apt-get
<herve> and I saw packages from debian really not academic :-)
<zyga> herve: packaging real-world stuff is probably more difficult to learn :-)
<herve> certainly not
<zyga> by academic I was thinking about following some deb-packaging-howto
<herve> we don't ask you to package OOo
<siretart> apropos CXX Transistion, does anyone want to review http://siretart.tauware.de/ubuntu-packages/poker3d/ ;)
<herve> sure you to follow such a howto, that's the reality of packaging
<herve> siretart, will do
<siretart> :)
<ogra> siretart, i'll do y reviewing sunday tomorrow...as long as the package is linked on the transition list or in the bug report, i'll review it
<siretart> ah, great
<abelli> ogra: hi, someone told me that you are going to review ruby's gem integration in breezy right?
<herve> by the way, could you me help on amd64/ia64 g++ build failures?
<ogra> abelli, huh ?
<ogra> ruby ?
<abelli> ogra: im just asking it .. :)))
<ogra> who is ruby ?
<abelli> ogra: dont dont .. swear.
<abelli> please matz forgive him.
<abelli> ogra: ruby is an OO scripting language.
<ogra> ah, i think i heard of it...
<abelli> ruby is Good, ruby is faithful ..
<herve> very popular in japan
<ogra> but i'm not sure i'm the person who could review such a thing
<abelli> ogra: i think you're going to broke some part of your body in the near future ..
<abelli> s/broke/break
<ogra> at least not for other stuff then packaging
<herve> siretart, 27 Mb of sources, you'll pay me this!! :-)
<ogra> abelli, python is good, python is faithful :)
<herve> 27 MB, not Mb, english units suck!
<abelli> gem is a system for packaging and installing ruby-based applications.
<ogra> aha
<siretart> herve: oh, then wait for ogra doing it tomorrow ;)
<herve> distutils ;-)
<abelli> ogra: so you're refusing your perl-hacker past?
<herve> ho I'll have finished downloading before tomorrow, hopefully ;-)
<ogra> abelli, nope, not at all
<abelli> ogra: shame on you .. distruction ..
<herve> abelli, I don't see the point :-)
<ogra> abelli, but i'm not doing perl anymore, ecause i'm twice as fast in python
<abelli> herve: ohh ok dont worry i see it.
<abelli> ogra: swearing freely ..
<herve> and you can review your own code 6 months later ;-)
<abelli> that's bad.
<tseng> anyone here into icons work?
<abelli> common sense.
<ogra> tseng, whats the prob ?
<tseng> ogra: tomboy
<ogra> dont we have all jimmac icons ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> but upstream hates them
<tseng> < orph> tseng, so fucking get an artist to send me some more
<tseng> heh
<ogra> so they want new ones ?
<tseng> yes
<ogra> hmm... dunno if i'll find the time... but if i stumbel across an artist, i'll send him to you
<abelli> tseng: did he (orph) study literature in oxford?
<tseng> doubt it
<abelli> such a style :)
<herve> tseng, could I see these jimmac icons somewhere?
<ogra> at jimmacs homepage
<tseng> i dont think he wants anything having to do with notes or wikis
<herve> why didn't I think about it ;-)
<tseng> he told me to get him a tree, because tomboys climb trees :P
<abelli> tseng: that's firenze .. yeah literature in firenze .. dolce stil novo.
<tseng> abelli: i think im missing the joke/reference
<siretart> do cxx library packages need to be renamed, even when there was no version of them in hoary or earlier?
<abelli> tseng: its not a real problem :) .. eventually .. excuse me .. its too late for my humour. .
<herve> siretart, we need to mark the change of abi for other libs and applications
<abelli> ok thank you for listening .. ogra im waiting for your work on ruby-gem's infrastructure ..
<ogra> siretart, then they'll sit in NEW anyway and have to get manual approval from elmo
<abelli> herve: you too .. thank you, im sure you'll work it out easily :).
<siretart> ogra: im talking about libaqbanking. it's listed on http://packages.ubuntu.com/libaqbanking only for breezy
<abelli> everybody good night .. good saturday night fever.
<ogra> abelli, g'night
<herve> bye abelli
<siretart> and seems to have passed NEW. but I dont find any buildlog for it on lamonts site
<siretart> bye abelli
<abelli> ciao, peace. :)
<herve> siretart, I hope you're not in a hurry... still downloading!
<siretart> gnarf, I'm too dump for searching :(
<siretart> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/liba/libaqbanking/1.0.9-2/ here it is
<siretart> herve: :)
<herve> well, jimmac is certainly not an amateur, orph is nothing but gratitiously insultive
<herve> those developers and their ego :-)
<siretart> ogra: should it be renamed to libaqbanking0c2 or libaqbankingc20 then?
<siretart> i'd prefer the former..
<herve> me too
<herve> just for not reading "c20"
<ogra> siretart, is the name of the binary package only libaqbanking ?
<herve> but the wiki pages gives tips about it
<siretart> ogra: the binary package name is libaqbanking0
<ogra> then c2 is the correct extension....
<siretart> ok
* ogra glares at mondevelop 0.7
<ogra> tseng, 0.7 ?? already ?
<ogra> tseng, you are to fast ;)
<tseng> ogra: its been out for days
<tseng> ive had it in my ~
<tseng> forgot to upload
<herve> siretart, why is there a CVSROOT package in your package?
<ogra> days *g*
<herve> tseng, the seb128 of mono!
<herve> :-)
<tseng> herve: indeed
<tseng> latexer and I actually had a race for blam
<tseng> the moment upstream announced it
<tseng> i lost :(
<ogra> tseng, all mono devs will change to ubuntu because youre so fast ;)
<tseng> stupid /usr/share/dotnet
<tseng> ogra: some of them are already big fans
<siretart> herve: err, sorry? where do you see that?
<ogra> hehe, i guess thats also your fault ;)
<tseng> more will switch after release
<tseng> when we have stable and rocking mono support
<ogra> yeah
<herve> siretart, actually there's a bunch of new files
<siretart> herve: i'll look at it
<herve> siretart, debdiff against ubuntu1 :-)
<tseng> meebey caught some missing files in my gtk-sharp2 stuff
<ogra> great
<tseng> im trying to fix my gst-multiverse atm
<tseng> for -lame
<tseng> seb never commented on it
<herve> what about it?
<ogra> hmm, poke him again
<tseng> herve: what what about it?
<herve> tseng, gst and lame, what happened?
<tseng> gst-faad, faac, lame w/o lame marillat crap
<tseng> what happened was wrong build-dep I think
<siretart> herve: strange. it has a build dependency on cvs
<herve> tseng, so package broken, nothing worst?
<tseng> yes?
<tseng> the package only exists on my laptop
<tseng> so no biggie
<herve> haggai, it was dropped?
<tseng> im really not sure what you are getting at
<herve> s/haggai/ha
<tseng> do we have one for lame?
<herve> I'm trying to track the news in ubuntu world :-)
<tseng> definately not for faac
<tseng> Reinstallation of gstreamer0.8-lame is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.
<tseng> see
<tseng> there was never such a package
<tseng> afaik
<ogra> in marillat there was...
<herve> hmm... I think I know why I keep poking h*a*g*g*a*i... xchat feature
<tseng> well that one would not work for us
<herve> okay, I think I get it
<tseng> it was just an add on to the gstreamer-plugins source packag
<ogra> herve, any KDE or openoffice ambitions ?
<tseng> not s second package that could go in multiverse
<herve> ogra, my mental health is too precious ;-)
<ogra> heh
<herve> ha, test 1 2 1 2
<herve> ogra, for the transition or the near future?
<ogra> herve, nope, because xchat always lets you ping one of the maintainers ;)
<herve> lol ok
<herve> good thing daniel let his machine up
<ogra> he is pretty sure working on it...
<herve> whoops! I bother him enough to work on his thesis not to disturb him
<herve> ogra, would you pbuild a package for me then? :-)
<ogra> herve, if he knows you are working on his machine, its ok...
<herve> not now
<ogra> herve, only if it builds relatively quick, my temperature adjustment on the laptop is pretty broken, if i compile longer the 5 mins it overheats
* ogra has a hairdryer around since some days
<herve> then no
<herve> it was close to burn mine :-)
<ogra> herve, what is it ?
<herve> tulip... yes, again
<ajmitch> hi
<herve> yo ajmitch!
<ogra> herve, oh... how long ?
<herve> about an hour
<ogra> argh
<herve> and intensive memory usage
<ogra> thats to long... mono takes 20 min... and is only doable with the hairdryer currently...
<ogra> hmm
<herve> I had to buy a cooling base as for me
<herve> ogra, can I make a request for cputemp?
<ogra> sure, but i cant promise anything, its a pt project
<ogra> pet even
<herve> deactivate opening the menu or adding one
<herve> for now it's the notification area menu
<herve> and when you think you're removing cputemp, you're removing the whole area
<ogra> oh, yes
<ogra> feel free to change it ;)
<ogra> (or even to package it )
<herve> when I learn pygtk :-)
<ogra> arent you the python guy ?
<zyga> siretart: ping
<herve> before packaging, you had to find a common path to the temp entry in /proc
<siretart> zyga: pong
<herve> ogra, I'm not afraid about python but gtk!
<zyga> siretart: http://www.suxx.pl/adom-manager
<zyga> siretart: what should I do to wrap that into a .deb
<siretart> herve: the clean target seems to be broken. I reuploaded poker3d. please recheck
<siretart> herve: this time those strange cvs file should be gone
<herve> okay
<ogra> herve, scan the subdirs of /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/
<zyga> siretart: some things are sketchy but it works
<herve> ogra, you're serious? because sure I would package a package
<herve> (I really like the "package" word this night...)
<ogra> it needs some autoscan love, then its suitable for common use i think
<herve> we have different name for our thermal zone
<ogra> so go aherd, implement the missing bit ad package
<ogra> a package
<herve> but how to know how many there are
<ogra> ask users ?
<herve> good thing, a poll!
<zyga> siretart: I've just found a .deb (on the official site) for an outdated version
<ogra> or write a error message "unknown thermal zone detected please mail the output of ls /......... to herve"
<zyga> siretart: I'm sure adom developer would agree to package a newer release
<siretart> zyga: this brings me an idea: why does the maintainer not provide up to date debs?
<siretart> zyga: he could also provide nice apt lines for sources.list
<zyga> siretart: he's far too busy probably
<zyga> siretart: I'll mail him
<herve> ogra, will do next week
<ogra> go ahead ;)
<zyga> siretart: I also doubt that he can make debs
<herve> I also have a pygame version of xbill to freshen and package
<zyga> siretart: many contributed builds are listed on the official page (including some obscure amiga builds)
<siretart> hehe
<herve> siretart, did you check the debian/*.files are updated?
<herve> er... what am I telling...
<herve> the library file doesn't change its name
<siretart> certainly not. gnarf. just a moment
<herve> otherwise, your changes are ok to me
<ogra> the "file" shouldnt hange the name, only the package
<herve> yes, me fool
<herve> no one having an amd64 or ia64 and spare cpu?
<siretart> herve: poker3d updated, again
<herve> what did you have to change?
<siretart> herve: these *.files
<herve> why?
<herve> :-)
<siretart> herve: I renamed the binary package names and forgot to rename the *.files too
<herve> ogra, orienting a usb fan towards the keyboard also helps the temperature issue :-)
<herve> haha! I knew there was something to do with the *.files or *.shlibs !
<ogra> siretart, look also at the contents of the files, there are temp paths inside sometimes that need that name change too
<herve> no, that's ok for this
<herve> I checked all files in debian/
<ogra> i.e. debian/libblah1/usr/.... might become debian/libblah1c2/usr
<ogra> so the taregtdir changed....
<zyga> siretart: I've mailed adom developer and asked him about making it possible for ubuntu to package adom
<herve> siretart, your package is ready then
<zyga> siretart: and also about possible builds for other arches
<siretart> herve: great! :)
<siretart> zyga: lets see what he tells
<herve> siretart, you still need doko's approval of the debdiff? I can upload it?
<ogra> herve, go ahead, buildd time is cheap if nobody has to touch anything manually
<siretart> herve: err, do I need his approval?
<siretart> I'd agree to ogra
<herve> siretart, I mean, approving the bug in bugzilla
<ogra> siretart, if in doubt, yes... but i think we just can go ahead
<herve> ogra, to the infinity and beyond!
<doko> ogra can review it as well, it would be nice if somebody can review it
<ogra> doko, i trust herves skills...
<ogra> (he wouldnt be a motu if i wouldnt)
<siretart> ah. I understand
* herve blushes
<siretart> :)
<herve> good thing... debuild -S is trying to build the package...
<ogra> thats what its supposed to, isnt it ?
<ogra> :)
<herve> I mean, the binary packages :-)
<ogra> hrm
<doko> herve, yes please upload if you think it's ok
<herve> ok... I got it
<herve> the clean target has a dependency on config.status
<herve> which launches the configure script
<herve> *hell*
<siretart> this wasn't my fault!
<herve> no, I know :-)
<siretart> :)
<herve> I sometimes wonder how some DD got their status
<ogra> its not how they get it, its what do they do afterwards ....
<herve> good point
<ogra> i guess the cleanest packages in debian are NM packages ;)
<siretart> ;)
<herve> thinking about the python-iconv package still gives me chill in the spine
<herve> now I have the build deps, I can build the source package... gniiii!
<herve> siretart, uploade
<herve> d
<siretart> herve: great! :)
* ogra applauds
<herve> ogra, I wonder if you're serious or laughing at me :-)
<ogra> i'm serious
<ogra> :)
<herve> seriously laughing :-)
<ogra> heh
<siretart> :)
<herve> siretart, the patch I saw in poker3d will probably save tulip too!
<herve> g++ was complaining about loss of precision
<herve> so I would change the unsigned to an unsigned long
<herve> siretart, better than that! poker3d had exactly the same problem!
<siretart> herve: :)
* herve hugs siretart and Andreas
<siretart> I'm having here a program, that overloads operator new with (unsigned int, ... )
<siretart> :(
<siretart> and to make it even worse: the source is generated
<herve> tulip was kind like it, but some operator() method/function
<herve> muhahahaha! sorry...
<siretart> I reported it upstream (well, I see him on monday at work ;) )
<herve> hehe
<doko> siretart, herve: you know the list of existing patches for these kind of bugs?
<herve> doko, bugs.debian.org/reporter=andreas or something like that?
<doko> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UniverseCxxTransition
<siretart> doko: yes, I took the patch from the debian bts
<doko> :)
<herve> mine wasn't in the bts!
<herve> I need not to forget to report it, by the way
<herve> boy, what a day
<herve> night all
<siretart> night, herve!
<ogra> night herve
<herve> watch for poker3d and tulip to build! :-)
<ogra> yeah
<Pupeno> hello
<Pupeno> While making the package for sbcl, it failed to sign it (http://paste.lisp.org/display/8472). Did this abort other tasks or the packages are ready just that the .dsc file is not signed ? If so, I may just sign it and I'm done, right ?
<Pupeno> noone ?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-05-29
<marios> hello
<Pupeno> hello ?!?
<marios> why question mark?
<Mithrandir> Pupeno: it's just the signing which failed then
<Pupeno> marios: because nobody replied earlier.
<marios> :)
<Pupeno> Mithrandir: may I just sign it then ?
<Mithrandir> Pupeno: yes
<Pupeno> ok.
<Pupeno> Now, how do I create an apt-getable repository on my server ? (some docs about it ?)
<Mithrandir> man apt-ftparchive
<Pupeno> thanks
<marios> is anyone here interested in helping me out with ubuntu support site
<marios> ?
<ivoks> hahaha
<marios> sam se ti smij
<ivoks> marios: english only
<marios> ok,ok
<marios> just you laugh :p
<ivoks> bad translation
<marios> ok,ok
<marios> wait a sec...
<marios> I have to find a translator :D
<marios> why is everybody sleeping here? :p
<crimsun> it's saturday evening or sunday morning
<crimsun> most people are probably "out"
<ivoks> heh
<crimsun> 'evening, ivoks
<ivoks> crimsun: hi
<tseng> ogra: dude i think this is the build the wins the day
<tseng> ogra: mono + __thread
<ogra> yay yay yay
<ogra> \O/
<ivoks> ogra: hellou!
<ogra> hey ivoks
<ivoks> tseng: howdy!
<tseng> hi
<ivoks> ogra: you uploaded all on my site?
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> the ones that were there last time i looked, yes
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> you talked about 20....
<ivoks> well :)
<ivoks> sidlibs have 4-5 packages
<ogra> there are five until now.... these are uploaded
<ivoks> and i'm still waiting for doko to check two-three more
<ogra> ivoks, i'll check them
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i'll give u URL, sec...
<ogra> not now, its 1:25, i'm terribly tired...
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> i suppose its the same url as always ?
<ivoks> same time here :)
<ivoks> ogra: no... this is on bugzilla
<ivoks> patches that should get PENDINGUPLOAD flag
<ogra> ivoks, ok, then i'll pull the bugnumbers from the wiki
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> time for bed
<ivoks> see you tomorroe
<ivoks> w
<MarioOs> sleep tight
<MarioOs> don't let bugs eat you :D
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> night ivoks
<Pupeno> awesome, got sbcl 0.9.0.39 and slime-cvs to work on ubuntu :D
<ogra> Pupeno, great
<Pupeno> I'm currently uploading them to my server.
<Pupeno> Here, the anouncement for my packages: http://pupeno.com/eng/blog/archive/2005/05/21/lisp-on-kubuntu
<tseng> its great i have my desktop here now for compiling/hard work
<tseng> and dont have to push my laptop
<tseng> into compiling mono*
<crimsun> funny, I just finished setting up a remote dev environment for the same purpose
<tseng> nice
<tseng> yeah im using my desktop over ssh mostly
<tseng> atm
<tseng> i like using the full size keyboard/mouse and 21" monitor also though
<crimsun> true
<Pupeno> I'm making a package whose version is 0.9 (no Debian package for this), should it be 0.9-1ubuntu1 ? or 0.9-ubuntu1 ?
<crimsun> so upstream version is 0.9? The Ubuntu version would be 0.9-0ubuntu1
<Pupeno> ok.
<crimsun> we always have to account for the possibility that it will enter Debian at some future date
<Pupeno> compat ? 0 ? 1 ?
<crimsun> come again?
<crimsun> because it's not in Debian yet (and assuming that if it _is_ going to be uploaded into Debian, it will be 0.9-1), you have to version lower
<crimsun> hence -0ubuntu1
<Pupeno> yes, ok, but what do I put in compat (I believe it's the epoch of the package) ? or do I just skip this file ? (I'm basing this package on another similar package).
<crimsun> Pupeno: sorry, been busy
<crimsun> Pupeno: debian/compat is the debhelper level
<crimsun> Pupeno: it is independent of the epoch
<Pupeno> oh... it was just a coincidence then.
<crimsun> chances are you'll want to use 4 as a compat level
<crimsun> that means you'll need to check debian/control:Build-Depends
<crimsun> and debian/rules
<crimsun> (the debhelper man page outlines the differences)
<Pupeno> Ok, thank you.
<Pupeno> Who should I notify of my packages so they may be introduced into ubuntu breezy ?
<crimsun> MOTUToDo
<crimsun> wiki/MOTUToDo, that is, and be sure to place a url to your repo with diff.gz and dsc (and orig.tar.gz)
<crimsun> also place pointers on the relevant New wiki pages
<Pupeno> do you mean just adding an entry on the TODO here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MOTUTodo ?
<Pupeno> outch, I don't have diff.gz and orig.tar.gz (I'm not sure why).
<crimsun> yeah, and also on the New packages pages
<crimsun> brb
<Pupeno> when I ruin dpkg-buildpackage it doesn't build a diff.gz and an orig.tar.gz, am I missing some option ?
<Pupeno> s/ruin/run/
<crimsun> how is the source dir named+
<crimsun> do you have an orig.tar.gz?
<crimsun> err, sorry
<crimsun> because you don't have an orig.tar.gz, it assumes you're building a debian-native package
<Pupeno> oh.
<crimsun> (sorry, my connection is kinda logged)
<crimsun> lagged, rather
<Pupeno> Should I download the original tarball and renamed whatever.orig.tar.gz ?
<crimsun> yep
<Pupeno> let's see.
<Pupeno> The original is named rfc2388_0.9.tar.gz, the directory where I untared is named cl-rfc2388-0.9, how should the tarball be named ? rfc2388_0.9.orig.tar.gz ? cl-rfc2388-0.9.orig.tar.gz ? or what ?
<crimsun> rfc2388_0.9.orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> actually, what's the name of your source packaeg?
<crimsun> package, rather
<Pupeno> rfc2388_0.9.tar.gz
<crimsun> err, sorry. In debian/control
<crimsun> what's the source name there?
<Pupeno> cl-rfc2388
<crimsun> then the orig tarball needs to be named that. cl-rfc2388_0.9.orig.tar.gz
<Pupeno> thanks.
<crimsun> wow is that ever a rather ... uninformative binary package name, though
<crimsun> (rfc2388)
<Pupeno> crimsun: indeed.
<crimsun> as descriptive as briefly possible would work better
<Pupeno> crimsun: I believe the guy who named it wasn't very creative that day.
<crimsun> that's ok, you can name the binary package :)
<Pupeno> The people who needs it will look for it under that name.
<crimsun> ok, but please make good short and long Descriptions for it :)
<Pupeno> I've done.
<Pupeno> crimsun: something like this: http://packages.pupeno.com/ubuntu/hoary/cl-rfc2388/ ?
<crimsun> sure
<crimsun> I'll take a look in a bit
<Pupeno> thank you :D
<crimsun> hopefully in 30 mins, but there's no telling with all these guys with sound issues...
<crimsun> ok, so 30 minutes was far optimistic
<Treenaks> wow.. what happened?
<siretart> Treenaks: freenode maintenance, see http://www.freenode.net/news.shtml
<Treenaks> ah
<Treenaks> siretart: urrgh: "We'll be restarting servers, blah blah this will take an hour" "Oh and by the way GIVE US YOUR MONEY!!!"
<siretart> Treenaks: yupp. thats splitn^W freenode! :)
<Treenaks> siretart: at least OTFC is SPI-sponsored ;)
<siretart> oftc?
<Treenaks> so I can donate to SPI andbenefit Debian and OFTC /at the same time/
<Treenaks> irc.oftc.net
<Treenaks> the "split off" net people created when they got fed up or something.. it was a major flamewar
<siretart> Treenaks: say, why is "irc.debian.org" CNAMEd to irc.freenode.net then?
<Treenaks> http://www.oftc.net/faq/general/\
<Treenaks> (OPN is freenode now)
<crimsun> siretart: there hasn't been a decision yet to switch completely to oftc
<\sh> morning
<Amaranth> morning
<Amaranth> well, early morning (3am) :)
<\sh> 4mins to 10am here
<\sh> just woke up
<\sh> because oh this stupid church bells
<ajmitch> hi
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: hey hows it goin
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> been a little busy lately ;)
<Unfrgiven> yeah same :)
<Unfrgiven> i got all caught up in the star wars fever
<Unfrgiven> :)
<\sh> Amaranth: is george serious or is he fooling us
<Amaranth> No idea, I think he is serious.
<Amaranth> He doesn't even use Ubuntu, it seems.
<\sh> Unfrgiven: star wars III is not what I was expecting
* Amaranth saw it twice
<\sh> the special effects are not up2date
<Unfrgiven> Amaranth: i saw it twice too :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: really? i loved it
<Unfrgiven> i thought it wrapped up most things quite nicely
<\sh> Unfrgiven: for the story, it was ok...but as in ep4+5+6 george lucas tried to invent new special effects, and this wasn't happening in ep 1+2+3
<Unfrgiven> i must admit, im a HUGE fan... ive got in excess of 80 books.... :)
<\sh> they got better in those computer animated characters but that's all
<Amaranth> now we just need the rest of the saga :D
<Unfrgiven> \sh: dont computer animated characters count as "new special effects"? wasn't jar jar binks the first digital actor ever?
<Amaranth> no, i think toy story came out before that
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u mean in combination with "real actors"?
<Unfrgiven> Amaranth: i don't think toy story counts.... they weren't meant to be "real" characters... it was a computerised cartoon
<Unfrgiven> by digital actors we mean characters in a live movie
<Unfrgiven> though i suppose bugs bunny in space jam would've been  the first?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: thats right
<\sh> and then there was this movie with the name of an old computer game
<\sh> completly digitized and completly computer animated
<Unfrgiven> \sh: fair enuf :) but anyways don't those effects count as computer animated?
<Unfrgiven> errr dont computer animated count as special effects
<\sh> Unfrgiven: as I said, he always tried to get better in ep4+5+6 but in ep1
<\sh> 2
<\sh> oops
<\sh> 1+2+3
<Unfrgiven> i spose you're looking at the movie purely from a photography/aural perspective... im looking at it from the perspective of a movie... a couple of hours of entertainment
<\sh> there were only small pieces renewed or got better (in ep3 jar jar was quite nice animated and this guy in the bar where obi wan was going to)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: well, the story is known ;) it's the same as with "titanic"
<\sh> everybody knew the end of the Titanic ;)
<Unfrgiven> same with apollo 13 but it was still an awesome flick
<\sh> this movie I never watched
<Unfrgiven> \sh: fair enuf :)
<Unfrgiven> anyways back to ubuntu.... im writing up the intro developer docs atm....
<Unfrgiven> i had an idea that I thought I'd ask about
<Unfrgiven> i was thinking about creating a meta package that basically encompassed all the packages required for creating your own packages
<\sh> good idea
<ajmitch> looks like I've got a bit of X fixing to do
<ajmitch> the fun of running breezy :)
<ajmitch> hi thoreauputic
<thoreauputic> hi ajmitch :)
* ajmitch wishes pg-up/down worked nicely in uxterm without having to tweak x resources
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: ive not dist-upgraded since monday... its been very hard resisting the temptation... but i've expected lots of breakage this week due to the cxx transition
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: X.org breakage has been harder on me
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, I just havent shut down my machine
<ajmitch> I don't dist-upgrade anymore, it can cause too much to break ;)
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: X is currently at ~750MB mem usage, I have to be able to restart it soon
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, that is odd. I have been running 5 days straight, and am astill at around ~132 megs
<ajmitch> I think the leak is due to gnome-terminal/Xft or something, since that was the only app I changed
<ajmitch> root      9980  1.2 45.2 737216 469136 ?       S<L  May17  85:43 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -br -audit 0 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth -nolisten tcp vt8
<ajmitch> about 5 days for me too :)
<Burgundavia> ouch
<ajmitch> yeah
<Burgundavia> I hope I don't have a similar leak, as i really don;t want to have to tweak my xorg by hand
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> why would you have to tweak xorg by hand?
<Burgundavia> the fonts stuff
<ajmitch> trivial
<Burgundavia> when should I start reporting uninstallable programs due to the CXX transition? now, one week, two weeks?
<Amaranth> i'm a bit new to all this memory leakage stuff
<Amaranth> if i restarted gnome-panel and the VM Size went down 20MB what does that mean?
<ivoks> hi
<ajmitch> hi ivoks
<ivoks> hi ajmitch :)
<ivoks> i'll be back...
<\sh> re ivoks :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i'm playing with my irssi :)
<ivoks> ah... time to do some road planing :(
<ivoks> so, guys... enjoy. i have roads to design :)
<\sh> roads?
<ivoks> yeah...
<ivoks> i get map, and then i have to create road on that map
<ivoks> highway, or whatever is needed :)
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: :)
<ivoks> it's part of my education
<ivoks> to becom civil engineer
<ivoks> on faculty of civil engineering :)
<ivoks> so, bye
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: oh... i thought you were referring to ubuntu roadmapping
<Unfrgiven> ivoks: cya
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: :>>>
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> wrong button :)
<\sh> strange
<\sh> X11/Xlib.h should be in libx11-dev, right?
<ajmitch> probably
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> again strange
<\sh> there is no spoon aehm Xlib.h
<\sh> now i'm confused
<\sh>  /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h
<\sh> but wasn't /usr/include/X11 now the right place for all this X11 stuff?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> it's moving
<ajmitch> I think ;)
<\sh> confusion
<ajmitch> it makes for a fun time
<ajmitch> at least I've still got my laptop that I haven't upgraded for a couple of weeks
<\sh> ajmitch: well...I just dist-upgraded my breezy chroot this morning....
<\sh> and now i'm trying to compile some X stuff and after all, it's complaining ;)
<\sh> and with all this xorg font stuff moving I'm right confused, what is the right location for all this xorg stuff ;
<\sh> well, I could adjust the source, but then tomorrow it will lay somewhere else...;)
<ajmitch> yeah, I'm doing most of my compiling in a chroot now
<ajmitch> only way to try & keep my main system semi-stable
<\sh> ajmitch: but the problem is, that I don't know which is the right position now...I think something went wrong with the last update of xorg and those paths aren't right...it should be /usr/include/X11 and not /usr/X11R6/include/X11
<ajmitch> libx11-dev 6.8.2-16 ?
<\sh> yepp
<ajmitch> I don' tthink the headers have been shifted yet
<ajmitch> but the app you're trying to compile just isn't looking in the right place for some reason
<\sh> strange...
<\sh> cdbs autotools package ;)
<\sh> lemme check by hand
<\sh> it doesn't get the include path for X11R6/include/X11 nor /usr/include/X11
<\sh> fixing the source
* Amaranth is just happy X is getting real paths
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> adding --with-x-includes=/usr/X11R6/include everything is working fine
<\sh> haha...no it's not working cause
<\sh> /usr/include/GL/glx.h:39:22: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
<\sh> /usr/include/GL/glx.h:40:23: error: X11/Xutil.h: No such file or directory
<\sh> nice one
<Amaranth> yes X is broken terribly
<\sh> hmmm
<Treenaks> hi ogra & ogra
<\sh> and susus ;)
* p0m waves to Treenaks
<Unfrgiven> hi ogra
<\sh> Amaranth: but setting the X-include dir, all includes should follow it
<Treenaks> p0mz0r
<p0m> Treenaks: Any idea which repo I'd find mmusic on?
<Treenaks> mmusic?
<Treenaks> universe? multiverse?
<Treenaks> google?
<p0m> It's not in any of the ubuntu ones.
<p0m> All I can find is debs, and I'm not going to go through dependancy hell.
<Treenaks> uh
<Treenaks> don't the debs dpkg -i cleanly?
<p0m> No, they do, but there's a tonne of deps.
* p0m contemplates adding the debian repos
<Treenaks> p0m: *shudder*
<Unfrgiven> all... for the intro developer docs, i was going to use a worked example... we had planned to use tomboy since it was simple... but it has gotten complicated since... does anyone know a very simple somewhat popular package? something that uses cdbs and is has only debhelper.mk.
<Treenaks> p0m: have you read the MOTU pages on the wiki?
<Unfrgiven> err includes debhelper.mk
<p0m> Yeah, I have.
<p0m> gmmusic isn't mentioned on there anyhow. I think it's unmaintained.
<p0m> Which is a pity, it was a nice program.
<p0m> It's the only gnome mp3 collection cataloguing software I've seen.
<Treenaks> p0m: rhythmbox ?
<Treenaks> p0m: muine ?
<\sh> hmmm
<p0m> Rythmbox doesn't like my smb shares.
<p0m> Muine doesn't have an xchat plugin.
<Amaranth> an xchat plugin? for what?
<p0m> "Now playing" crud.
<Burgundavia> gah
<p0m> It's for a friend of mine.
<\sh> I'm not this autotools master piece, but this "AM_CXXFLAGS=@CXXFLAGS@ @SDL_CFLAGS@ ${X_CFLAGS}" doesn't look ok
<Amaranth> i ignore people who have scripts that do that
<p0m> Haha.
<p0m> I'm too lazy to type it myself usually.
<p0m> I have a python script that grabs it and passes it onto my website.
<Amaranth> Seeing stuff like [Evanescence - Ascension of the Spirit]  every 3 minutes gets annoying
<p0m> Haha.
<Amaranth> btw, i'm actually listening to that :)
* \sh is playing "Lay Your Hands On Me" by Bon Jovi on New Jersey
<\sh> ;)
<\sh> i should remove all this "media dcop" things from kde
<p0m> When I do it, it's just "np: song - artist"
<p0m> None of this fancy formatting stuff.
<\sh> grmpf
<p0m> Although, I did use postscript formatting in an mp3 script once as a joke.
<p0m> Anyhow, back to NWN :)
* Amaranth wishes esc still got rid of the muine window
<\sh> starting over
<p0m> Works perfectly under Ubuntu, I'm pleased to report.
<Amaranth> stupid xorg :)
<p0m> Heh.
<\sh> never winter nights?
<p0m> Aye.
<\sh> i have to install it later...that's why I bought the windows version only for the key
<p0m> Heh.
<\sh> wanted to package it ;)
<p0m> There's a shell script to install it these days.
<p0m> Gentoo has a nwn ebuild.
<p0m> You could do a metapackage for just the client + updates.
<p0m> And one for game data.
<p0m> Because some people have the CD's, but can't be bothered setting up the client.
<\sh> p0m: I know about the gentoo ebuild...I'll use it as an example ;)
<p0m> Heh.
<Burgundavia> what about legal issues?
<p0m> The gentoo ebuild only has original NWN though.
<p0m> Bioware don't care, as long as you use a legal CD key.
<Burgundavia> truly?
<p0m> At least, that's what I've been told.
<Burgundavia> you can redistribute the entire game?
<p0m> From what I can tell.
<\sh> Burgundavia: jepp
<Burgundavia> has someone cleared that with bioware?
<p0m> I think they have.
<p0m> Bioware's linux client forum suggest downloading the stuff if you have a legal CD key.
<p0m> You need a CD key to play it anyhow.
<Burgundavia> so it might be able to go in multiverse
<\sh> would be really nice to see it there for ubuntu
<Amaranth> i hope it doesn't use C++ :)
<p0m> It uses SDL.
<\sh> Amaranth: statically linked ;)
<p0m> And c.
<Burgundavia> I am still skeptical that a company would allow that, but anyway
<p0m> Iirc.
<\sh> Burgundavia: u have to buy the windows cd
<\sh> cause the cdkey is printed on the manual
<Burgundavia> ok
<p0m> But if you lose your CD's, you can legally download it.
<\sh> but anyways...when u like ad&d pen & paper roleplaying ;) u will like neverwinternights
<\sh> it's based on the same rules
<p0m> Provided, of course you have the cdkey still.
<\sh> and the best thing is
<p0m> They actually have a system on their website so you can register your cdkey, and store it there.
* Burgundavia plays a weekly dnd game
<\sh> u can create your own worlds and put them on your own server as multiplayer game
<p0m> I play on Avlis, one of the first multiplayer servers for it.
<p0m> Uber addictive :)
<\sh> p0m: do they have at least the world generator for linux now?
<p0m> \sh: There's one in the works, but it's still easier to run Aurora under wine.
<p0m> The server software for NWN on linux is the best out there.
<p0m> And player vault.
<\sh> p0m: well, i would like to see the building software running native on linux, i'm really not a friend of wine
<p0m> Anyhow, I'll let you lot get back to doing whatever it is you normally do ;o)
<p0m> \sh: There is native software, it's just not all that good. And NWN2 comes out next year.
<\sh> p0m: whats missing in this piece of software? u need to paint some houses and u have to code the triggers ;)
<p0m> Heh.
<p0m> It's mainly only good as a viewer at the moment.
<herve> morning!
<p0m> Howdy herve.
<Unfrgiven> does anyone have a link for viewing unassigned motu/universe bugs? the "advanced" button is giving me the message "A system error occurred"
<Burgundavia> on malone?
<Burgundavia> malone is currently mostly useless
<Burgundavia> but I have high hopes
<Burgundavia> manually parse through
<Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: but arent breezy bugs supposed to be filed on malone?
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, for universe yes, not for main
<Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: yeah im looking for doing bug fixes for universe... im looking for work to do :)
<\sh> yes strike
<\sh> money flows
<\sh> titan is broken, dtv service not running, krypton also fscking around == showering, running to office, break more hardware ;)
<\sh> guys cu later...office is calling:)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: cya
<p0m> Ciao.
<p0m> Treenaks: Before I forget, I'm getting my LPIC-2 next month.
<Treenaks> LPIC-2?
<Treenaks> oh wait.. lpi stuff
<p0m> Yeah.
<p0m> Finally found a testing centre over here.
<p0m> Treenaks: http://lpi.org/en/lpic.html
<p0m> I have some bogus certification for linux admin from brainbench too.
<herve> lamont, ping
<DanielN> hmm.. does the pbuilder howto works with a breezy chroot?
<Burgundavia> DanielN, should
<Burgundavia> I have testing a few apps, but nothing major
<DanielN> mhm
<DanielN> but i can't create the chroot with " sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy"
<herve> Daniel, I had to create a hoary pbuild then upgrade it to breezy
<DanielN> and how do i update it?
<herve> read the wiki page again, notes were added at the end
<DanielN> ou .. i should reat until end in future :)
<herve> erm...
<herve> :-)
<MarioOs> hello everyone
<MarioOs> everybody's sleeping again :p
<ajmitch> some people are just impatient :)
<tseng> too bad
<tseng> what are these people thinking
<tseng> they definately did backport mono 1.1.7 and no compatible apps
<tseng> likewise they didnt backport the bindings for the /usr/lib/mono move
<Burgundavia> ouch ouch
<siretart> hi tseng, hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> salut siretart
<\sh> re
<tseng> hi
<herve> hi ditto
<\sh> well...this day isn't fun :(
<\sh> first of all, some dtv stuff broke, so I have to go tomorrow morning at 4:30am early to work
<whiprush> morning everyone
<herve> morning whiprush
<\sh> second, when I was going to the office at 1:00pm many people were already drunk and filling up the streets in this village here...horrible, terrible
<\sh> hi whiprush
<siretart> \sh: where are you from?
<\sh> siretart: kerpen-sindorf :) near cologne, the place where michael schumachers cart center is
<siretart> ah, great! :)
<\sh> siretart: and u?
<siretart> \sh: I'm from Nuernberg and studiing in Erlangen. I thought you where from Erlangen, because there is the 'Bergkirchweih' right now celebrating it's 250th anniversary
<siretart> and here nearby everey student is drunk because of that ;)
<\sh> siretart: hehe..no :) this here is some "welcome to sindorf, where michael schumacher is, eat and drink until u die" party ;)
<siretart> I understand :)
<\sh> normally it's fun ;) but if u have to go to work and have to look at this feast, it's a mess and I was scared ;)
<\sh> and now back to my package here...
<herve> impatient, you said? :-)
<\sh> herve: time?
<\sh> herve: only to have a look at something strange ;)
<herve> I was just referring to those people coming in and out in a row
<\sh> i need some advise ;)
<herve> hmm... I have nothing to do for the next half an jour!
<herve> s/jour/hour
<\sh> herve: fine :)
<\sh> herve: do me the favour and apt-get source arkrpg
<herve> done
<\sh> ok...
<\sh> now this is a cdbs ruleset...iit's using simple-patchsys...what would the easiest way to apply the patches and add some changes and diff again?
<herve> I don't know that
<\sh> ok..other question ;) take a look in the source tree: Modules/Reender/Makefile.am
<herve> you need my advice on the style of the file? :-)
<\sh> well...u see the cflags line? i have troubles with this ${X_CFLAGS} it doesn't look right
<\sh> now, i want to exchange ${X_CFLAGS} to @X_CFLAGS@ and aclocal;automake;autoconf again and make another diff ;)
<herve> hmm...
<herve> it's a good ol' variable in makefile format
<herve> no?
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> but I have to provide configure the --x-includes directive and with this original setting it doesn't compile..
<herve> it will be changed when make runs, not when Makefile.am -> Makefile
<\sh> it will change after automake
<\sh> and autoconf
<\sh> to become a nice Makefile ;)
<\sh> but i think not with this ${} format
<\sh> forget it ...it doesn't work this way or the other
<herve> did you check if they did the same in CVS/SVN/wathever?
<\sh> well, the only problem i have is, that one include file is not finding X11/Xlib.h
<\sh> and X11/Xlib.h is in /usr/X11R6/include/X11/
<\sh> and I don't why it's messing up..
<herve> I guess you know xorg has been cut in little pieces?
<herve> including (especially?) the headers?
<\sh> well...X11/Xlib.h should be in libx11-dev
<herve> you probably just need to update the build deps
<herve> apt-file search?
<\sh> apt-file?
<herve> don't tell me you don't know it :-)
<\sh> normally i'm looking into the sources ;)
<\sh> but it gives me nothing
<herve> you ran apt-file update,
<herve> ?
<\sh> missing curl
<\sh> woot? why isn't in the deps?
<herve> don't ask to me...
<\sh> something to fix ;)
<\sh> libx11-dev: usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h
<\sh> as i said :) and this is installed :)
<herve> ok, you win this one :-)
<\sh> at least something could be wrong with autotools
<\sh> but i don't think so
<\sh> it's not taking the ${X_CFLAGS}
<\sh> argl
<\sh> Checking for libraries...
<\sh> -----------------------
<\sh> checking for X... /home/shermann/breezy/transistion/arkrpg-0.1.4b/./configure: line 20949: test: too many arguments
<\sh> i think i know wheres the mistake
<\sh> grmpf
<herve> \sh, you're working it out?
<\sh> herve: yep
<\sh> solution is to get it updated to aclocal/automake 1.7
<herve> simply :-)
<\sh> some tests in ./configure are not running correctly
<\sh> and those tests are affecting the x-includes and x-libs directly ;)
<herve> I read a thread about pros and cons of having chosen auto* for xorg 6.9/7.0
<\sh> think most of the problems u have with different versions of those autotools
<herve> they said portability is also an issue
<herve> because auto* may have problems/be outdated on some archs
<herve> then they talked about scons and other competitors
<hondje> Hello, great and noble MOTU. Is there a ubuntu bzflag maintainer, who will ensure optimum playability of that great game?
<hondje> oh, and wil bzflag 2 be in the next release?
<ogra> hondje, we have no personalized packages, but a MOTUGames team is just forming....
<hondje> what's required of a maintainer, just packaging and simple bug fixes, right?
<ogra> feel free to join them (no need to be a MOTU for that)
<hondje> do I need to register w/ ubuntu to edit the wiki?
<ogra> knowledge of packaging and that you went through the process of being a member first....
<ogra> yep
<hondje> IOW, serious and in it for a reasonable amt of time
<ogra> hondje, for the games team, contact Burgundavia r siretart if one of them is around
<hondje> oh, I've talked to burgundavia, good deal
<ogra> yeah
<hondje> finally, if any of you gurus know how to get matlab, nvidia and ubuntu to play nice, I'd be very thankful :)
<ogra> if you're interested in becoming a MOTU, the first thing to do is to create yourself a own wikipage
<hondje> I'm not wise enough to be a MOTU of anything
<hondje> I'm a prototypical desktop user :)
<ogra> nahh... thats not a matter of wisdom :)
<hondje> Is there a group for scientific computer?
<ogra> not yet :)
<siretart> hondje: I play bzflag occasionally
<hondje> siretart: bzflag2 is a whole new level of awesome, they did a great job :)
<hondje> things like real weather, tracks in the ground, better graphics yet still smooth :)
<siretart> hondje: I already heared about this, will take a look at that
<ogra> hondje, do you know if its planned for debian ?
<ogra> then it will hit ubuntu in any case
<siretart> haggai: at the moment of hoary's release, there was no bzflag2, I think. As bzflag2 is already in debian, I'm quite sure it will get into breezy soon
<herve> bzflag 2 is not in ubuntu yet? what a shame :-)
<ogra> since when is it out ?
<hondje> ogra: It was in sid months ago
<hondje> I think the freeze missed it by mere days
<siretart> herve: no. It has not even been synced from debian
<ogra> hmm, sure ?
<hondje> yeah
<herve> siretart, probably because we applied ubuntu patches from it?
<ogra> hondje, ubuntu is synced from sid...regulary
<hondje> I was playing it before I switched to ubuntu for the desktop, which was the day hoary came out
<hondje> I had sid before, so that's what I ass/u/med
<siretart> herve: you are perfectly right. bzflag2 needs merging
<siretart> hondje: thanks for pointing out
<ogra> hondje, then it was like siretart said, we have to apply changes manually....so it will take some time...
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> siretart, btw, poker3d didnt compile :/
<hondje> oh, so will it go into hoary too?
<ogra> there are two libs missing
<siretart> ogra: damn. do you have a compilelog handy?
<siretart> gnarf
<ogra> hondje, there are no updates or hoary anymore
<hondje> okay, that's what I thought...bugfixes / security only
<siretart> hondje: no. you would have to compile it for yourself :(
<ogra> siretart, for one, drop the compile.stamp target from the clean target....
<hondje> siretart: the sid .deb works fine if you force deps
<hondje> I have to remove it each time I run dist-upgrade, but I can play it w/ minimal fuss :)
<siretart> hondje: ouch
<herve> ogra, looks like buildd is broken in the middle of the transition, tulip has the same issue
<ogra> siretart, the other prob is, that openal and friends arent transitioned yet and one lib in the middle needs a simple recompile
<herve> had it been uploaded 24 hours earlier and I'm sure it would have passed
<hondje> siretart: I wasn't fond of doing that, but it didn't seem to be a worse idea than using jdong's packages, and I'm a big addict of that game
<ogra> herve, ope, the buildd is fine
<\sh> now i'm mad
<herve> ogra, I mean the current state of packages the buildd is using
<ogra> hondje, dont use backports, they are odd, break your system and cause lots of headdaches for all
<hondje> and they're not really backports, either :)
<\sh> now i have to do some patch investigations...remove them which I don't need anymore
<hondje> We gave that poor kid such hell for calling them backports at another non-ubuntu forum he goes to :)
<siretart> ogra: so, what do you suggest? wait until openal is fixed? (besides fixing debian/rules)
<ogra> herve, its fine... openal is transitioned, but a lib that doesnt belong to the transition but epending on it  isnt yet... so its ok
<herve> \sh, one way to appreciate your work is too have a worst leisure :-)
<herve> my point, 24h earlier tulip would have passed
<ogra> hondje, if they are not in hoary and come from a newer sid, they are backpots by definition
<hondje> well, if you look at it from sid -> hoary, not hoary -> olderone
<ogra> herve, but would have been uninsatllabe because of missing deps :)
<\sh> herve: well...I'm trying to get this package compiled since this morning
<hondje> don't get me wrong, he's a really nice kid and he does a lot of work
<siretart> hondje: yes. but his packages make big problems when upgrading to the next release
<ogra> hondje, dont get _me_ wrong, but i'm not particulary happy (as no ubuntu dev is) about miserable packaged software that breaks users systems
<herve> ogra, agree, but I wouldn't have to care about it anymore ;-)
<ogra> herve, you would ;) since you would have to adjust the deps for it being installable
<hondje> that, and people have an expectation that something as formal sounding as 'ubuntu backports' has a higher level of checking-for-bugs
<ogra> hondje, yep, thats the odest part of it
<\sh> *grmpf*
<ogra> oddest even
<siretart> hondje: thats the reason why we discourage its use
<siretart> one of them
<hondje> yeah, makes sense
<hondje> still the fact that you haven't seemed to gone all nazi on him says something nice about ubuntu
<hondje> many other large projects get a bit rude
<siretart> why doesn't he join motu at all?
<ogra> hondje, we all sined the code of conduct to become members, we wsimply couldnt, even if we liked
<ogra> signed even
<hondje> there's a code of conduct? That's nice
<\sh> why is libGLU.so linked against libstdc++.5 and not .6?
<hondje> So #ubuntu isn't going to turn into a troll/flame fest like other distro chans :)
<ogra> hondje, nope, as long as someone cares for that it wont :)
<siretart> hondje: you can read about it here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
<\sh> hondje: we can't speak for the majority of the users which hasen't signed this code, but the members have some rules how to deal with other human being
<\sh> s
<hondje> That's the stuff I like, open source projects that keep in the spirit
<siretart> which I consider a very important difference from debian
<hondje> I didn't want to say the name out-loud
<hondje> though to be fair, a lot of the devs are great guys at debian, it's just a certain clique or something
<\sh> hondje: some of them are working for canonical/ubuntu :)
<\sh> X is broken
<\sh> completly broken
<hondje> that's a good code, I approve of it
<\sh> ogra: please check for me the ldd output of /usr/lib/libGLU.so.1.3 ;)
<hondje> I'm really impressed with this project, especially since I came in with a rather cynical anti-ubuntu view
<\sh> especially libstdc++
<hondje> thanks for all the help, guys
<ogra> \sh, yes... whats wrong with it
<siretart> hondje: I had a look at the bzflag package. That shouldn't be too much work to get bzflag2 into breezy soon, as the only ubuntu changes are fixed build dependencies for xorg (debian uses xfree)
<\sh> ogra: is it linked against .5 or .6 ?
<ogra> \sh, 5
<hondje> okay, awesome siretart
<ogra> \sh, for a reason i guess
<\sh> ogra: ok...then I can't compile this package
<herve> \sh, I saw a package name changed about gl(u)
<siretart> hondje: I will take a close look and prepare a package as soon as the CXXTransistion is done (and if there are no other issues with xorg packages or something)
<hondje> okay, that's super good of you siretart, I can't wait to play it again :)
<herve> \sh, "libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0xb7d5b000)"
<zul> hey
<herve> heya zul!
<\sh> herve: which xorg version for u?
<ogra> \sh, whats wrong with libstdc++5 ?
<herve> siretart, I'll eagerly upload it!!!
<zul> hey herve
<\sh> ogra: g++ can't link against libGLU.so.1.3 because of libstdc++.5
<ogra> \sh, its in main ....
<herve> \sh, hehe, you'd like to know... :-)
<\sh>  /usr/bin/ld: warning: libstdc++.so.5, needed by /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLU.so, may conflict with libstdc++.so.6
<herve> \sh, libglu1-xorg
<siretart> herve: oh, then go ahead, I dont want to grab a package in front of you ;)
<herve> \sh, up to date pbuilder?
<herve> siretart, hu? did I miss an episode, you have upload rights by yourself?
<\sh> herve: chroot
<ogra> herve, not yet
<herve> up to date chroot then :-)
<ivoks> eh
<herve> eh ivok
<herve> s
<\sh> sure
<ivoks> hi herve, ogra, \sh, others :)
<siretart> herve: no. I had let you review it, if you didn't mind ;)
<\sh> this morning there was an xorg update
<\sh> and I think that was the problem
<ogra> \sh, isnt compiled yet
<herve> siretart, review yes, not transitioning it
<\sh> grmpf
<ogra> (if it was uploaded after 0:00)
<ogra> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/
<\sh> xlibmesa-glu is the bug
<herve> but what is the solution? :-)
<\sh> and if i try to install libglu1-xorg now, everything is removed like kdelibs gksu etc.
<ogra> \sh, i would wait with this package until x is in shape
<ogra> heh, who needs kdelibs anyways
<\sh> ogra: i thought libstdc++5 is the old lib for gcc 3.x
<ogra> it is
<herve> ogra, you seem to be a fan of autorefresh :-)
<ogra> but you should make sure ++6 is compatible...
<herve> yo Nafallo!
<ogra> herve, only where it makes sense....
<\sh> why the hell is kdelibs4c2 compiled against .5?
<\sh> w8
<Nafallo> hi herve! how's it going? :-)
<Nafallo> hi all!
<herve> ogra, which means never for me!
<ogra> herve, i was annoyed that i had to do eternal reloads if i wait for a package to build
<\sh> argl
<herve> ogra, it's just because you're impatient
<ogra> herve, now i can just keep the win in the background and will see if its there
<\sh> now i'm depressed
<\sh> i don't get uit
<herve> as for me, I don't like a page to change its contents while I'm reading it
<siretart> herve: If you are at it, go on, its yours
<herve> siretart, no, I won't find time
<ogra> herve, even if its a monitoring app ?
<ogra> where the contents _have_ to be updated constantly
<\sh> ok..i have two libstdc++
<herve> have you thought about rss stream? :-)
<Nafallo> like my log for ubusync :-).
<ogra> herve, next setp, yes ;)
<\sh> but one is used by xorg
<ogra> herve, but for today i wanted to have a little syntax highlighting for the logs, so you see the build errors at a first glance
<\sh> ogra: what about the old ones?
<ogra> \sh, old ones ?
<siretart> herve: oh, then I didn't understand you before. I will see the next days what I can do about it.
<ogra> \sh, old what ?
<\sh> ogra: build logs from yesterday ;)
<ogra> \sh, look at lamonts dir....
<herve> siretart, just being your sponsor because I like the idea of bzflag2 into breezy
<doko> \sh, libGLU looks wrong. I look at it
<\sh> ogra: i like your design ;)
<ivoks> bzflag2?!
<\sh> doko: thx
<herve> siretart, but remember that if it has any c++ lib dep, it's frozen by the time of the transition
<ivoks> i like bzflag :)
<siretart> herve: no, its plain C
<\sh> doko: libGLU is in /usr/lib/ and in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11
<siretart> argl. sorry
<ivoks> siretart: what's new in bzflag2?
<herve> good thing!
<siretart> it has c++
<herve> hehe
<ogra> \sh, be careful, one might have gotten pulled in by nvidia/ati.....
<\sh> ogra: i don't have ati/nvidia running in my chroot of breezy ;)
<ogra> \sh, ok
<siretart> ivoks: just look at the shots here: http://www.bzflag.org/screenshots/ - a lot has happened!
<hondje> See what I'm saying? It's gotten a lot better! Too bad I didn't have time to finish my korean port of it...now I feel guitly :)
<\sh> ogra: but i have xlibmesa-glu installed and not libglu1 like herve ;)
<\sh> so when I remove now xlibmesa and reinstall libglu1 it will remove all the other stuff like gksu and some other packs
<herve> \sh, you have gksu in a chroot?
<ivoks> hm...
<ogra> huh ?
<\sh> herve: installed by default
<\sh> I'm not using it anyways
<\sh> herve: and if you're using dchroot u are able to use it...and to screw your actual running kde session if you're starting kde apps ;)
<Lathiat_> for a start you need to new version to play on the servers
<Lathiat_> and it has better sounds. :)
<herve> \sh, I always use chroot itself
<\sh> herve: try dchroot :)
<Lathiat_> ive already fixed the new bzflag btw
<Lathiat_> its been on the toreview page for a week or so
<Lathiat_> hondje, etc
<hondje> Lathiat_: oh, that's great....are there .debs to 'bug test'?? :)
<ivoks> dchroot rulz :)
<Lathiat_> www.bur.st/~lathiat/ubuntu/
<ivoks> .st?
<Lathiat_> sao tome
<Lathiat_> but im really in perth, western australia
<ivoks> ?
<Lathiat_> the .st is just bur[st] 
<Lathiat_> as in burst
<ivoks> ah, ok
<Lathiat_> mildly vanity. :)
<Lathiat_> we're a nonprofit ISP that do web hosting/email/dns etc for people in australia
<hondje> nonprofit ISP?
<herve> Lathiat_, I'll review it
<Lathiat_> herve: all i did was chang ethe build-dep so
<Lathiat_> hondje: we're a non-profit incorporated association
<ivoks> i have package depending on libsigc++-dev
<Lathiat_> and an ISP (internet service provider)
<ivoks> should it depend on libsigc++-2.0 or 1.2
<Lathiat_> we dont provide like DSL or dial-up, just web/dns/email/shell/etc
<ivoks> ?
<hondje> Lathiat_: Neat, connecting the world :)
<\sh> yeah first reaction on my "cry for help getting biltong to europe" ;)
<ivoks> did you watch F1?
<\sh> ivoks: I was in the office to see some rounds on our videowall
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ms is the best driver at the moment...
<\sh> i saw the "ferrari standing still on the road" scene ;)
<ivoks> too bad it has italian car :(
<herve> siretart, bzflag is a native package! *cry*
<ivoks> \sh: oh, that was show and a bit dangerous
<herve> "Dear Santa Claus, please don't bring gifts to the software developers playing the debian maintainer themselves, they are bad boys. Thank you for your attention."
<siretart> wtf?!
<\sh> ivoks: well...I'm not the "fan" of F1...neither MS...just because MS is just around the corner here...we're driving carts at his cart center in the summe during our afternoon pause :)
<siretart> oh no
<ivoks> \sh: :)))
<ivoks> herve: lol, where did you find that?
<ivoks> \sh: i'm not fan too, but this season is great
<herve> ivoks, just improvised that
<ogra> Lathiat_, did you only update the build deps ? or did you look in the MOM output for bzflag2 too ?
<siretart> herve: whom of us writes a bugreport? ;)
<hondje> what does this mean, that it was already made and just not in the repos?
<herve> I should find/write an argumentary about the misuse of native packages
<\sh> more that the upstream dev played with dh_make
<ogra> herve, s/mis//g
<Lathiat_> ogra: hmm?
<ivoks> ogra: if i have package pkgnamec102 that conflitcs with pkgname, should my package be called pkgname or pkgnamec2?
<herve> ogra, native packages have a mean for the debian project, so...
<ogra> ivoks, pkgname
<ivoks> ok
<ogra> ivoks, all packages with c102 just loose their extension
<ivoks> i know
<siretart> herve: looking at the debian pages about that site, It doesn't look in great shape :(
<herve> hondje, in short, it means I have to upload a 8 MB package just because I changed a few bytes
<ogra> Lathiat_, in MOM are all other changes we made in ubuntu listed
<hondje> herve: oh, sorry to hear that :)
<Lathiat_> ogra: well i just went by the changelog which said only the build-deps were updated
<herve> hondje, there's no separation of the software author job, and the maintainer job
<Lathiat_> ogra: where do i find MOM?
<ogra> Lathiat_, in the MOM package ?
<herve> so no diff of what debian/ubuntu changed, etc.
<hondje> oh, okay
<ivoks> :)
<Lathiat_> ogra: (i dont know what MOM is)
<herve> and we end up to patch unmaintained debianizing crack
<\sh> ivoks: Replaces: pkgname
<\sh> ivoks: Conflicts: pkgname \n Replaces: pkgname
<ogra> Lathiat_, http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/
<Lathiat_> ogra: oh yeh thats where i got the stuff from
<ogra> Lathiat_, MOM is Merge O Matic
<Lathiat_> ogra: re-merged the dropped build-deps (and left some out that are now upstream)
<ogra> Lathiat_, great :)
<siretart> ogra: do you know if the source for MOM is avaiable somewhere?
<ogra> siretart, ask Keybuk, its his baby
<siretart> ok
<ivoks> \sh: i know that :)
<ivoks> great...
<ivoks> anyone interested in fixing supercollider? :)
<\sh> supercollider?
<ivoks> yes, it isn't lib, but it's on CxxLibraryList
<\sh> forget about apps
<\sh> right now
<ivoks> it isn't an app too :)
<\sh> what is it then?
<ivoks> Description: realtime sound synthesis server and network language interpreter
<\sh> no app, no lib? so it's an app ;)
<ivoks> ok :)
<\sh> i'm just stucked with arkrpg/libarkrpg
<\sh> so i'm updating to libglu1-xorg and removing my kde stuff
<\sh> ok
<Lathiat_> upgrading ot that hurts
<Lathiat_> it removes like 50 packages on my system
<\sh> yeah
<Lathiat_> gdm, xbase-clients, that sort of thing. :)
<Lathiat_> g-s-t too
<herve> looks like we didn't say *not* to update enough :-)
<Lathiat_> i know :)
<\sh> herve: I'm not complaining if something breaks ;)
<zul> sure sure
<Lathiat_> i was just pointing out :)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> at least i'M happy if my arkrpg is compiling ;)
<ivoks> i'm updating every 3-4 hours :)
<DanielN> has someone of you guys tried qemu-launcher yet?
<ivoks> is taht bad?
<ivoks> :))
<herve> \sh, it's a chroot!
<ivoks> when should we end transition?
<\sh> hahaha
<ivoks> cause, it's going very well... and fast :)
<\sh> this is not truew
<\sh> libsdl1.2(-dev) depends on xlibmesa-glu
<\sh> this was removed now after update to libglu-dev-xorg
<herve> \sh, I'm worrying about your mental health
<herve> I suggest a walk and fresh air outside
<herve> :-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> or rollerblading
<ivoks> fast rollerblading :)
<ivoks> down the hill ;)
<\sh> well...I would say: \sh go to bed, and sleep until 3:00am and go to work
<ivoks> ogra: ping
<ogra> ivoks, pong
<ivoks> ping
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ogra: couple of my patches are submited to bugzilla, just to inform you...
<ogra> ivoks, oki
<\sh> gents, I will go to bed
<herve> night \sh
<\sh> ogra: press your thumbs tomorrow morning latest at 5am ;)
<ogra> hmm, if i'm awake, i'll do ;)
<tseng> jo
<tseng> hi
<\sh> ogra: rebooting the BMR ;) so all the non-upgrade areas don't have DTV ;)
<ogra> hehe, have fun :)
<\sh> yeah..:)
<\sh> cu
<ivoks> bye
<ivoks> i'll go too now ; bye
<herve> bye
* ogra lols about tsengs bolg entry
<tseng> is it funny?
<ogra> heh, probably a bit scary too :)
<herve> siretart, ping
<siretart> herve: pong
<tseng> probably.
<herve> siretart, I'm not confident about dholbach's entry appearing in the middle of the changelog
<herve> I don't think we're supposed to merge that too :-)
<herve> the point it that it's outdated compared to the previous entry
<siretart> herve: which package are you talking about right now?
<herve> 2.0.2... -> 1.10.6... -> 2.0.2
<herve> it looks strange
<herve> oops, bzflag
<herve> nevermind
<herve> I'm losing my mind!
<siretart> ah, I didn't look at it yet, sorry.
<herve> lathiat_, ping!
<herve> siretart, wrong person, sorry
<siretart> herve: never mind, We all get dizzy after too much work ;)
<herve> or Lathiat_ if case matters
<siretart> ;)
<herve> siretart, I know my illness, I'm getting hungry!
<siretart> that reminds me..
<herve> what's that change to MOTUTodo!
<tseng> ogra: oh oh, i posted your quote on the wrong blog
<tseng> ogra: i thought you meant the cd one
<Mithrandir> hi tseng
<tseng> hey
<tseng> Mithrandir: moved yet?
<Mithrandir> nah, that's in a month.
<Mithrandir> Thesis is due June 16th
<tseng> hm i moved 2 months ago
<tseng> and im still moving/buying stuff
<Mithrandir> we need to find an apartment, though.
<Mithrandir> that is, we're moving to a temporary place, then buying something, somewhere.
<tseng> ah yeah
<tseng> i live in a larger apt w/ 2 friends
* ogra just searches a new house
<tseng> i need a house for all my pcs
<Mithrandir> we're moving to a fairly big one, so we should be cautious not to be too spoiled, I guess.
<Mithrandir> we're getting a server room, I hope.
<ogra> tseng, whats wrong with the entry ?
<tseng> ogra: you said before, it was funny/scary
<tseng> i just realized, you meant the one before the one i had just written at the time
<ogra> ah
<ogra> sure since i didnt know the one you wrote while i was saying that ;)
<tseng> yeah
<ogra> hmm, thats a nice one.... but i doubt i'll get internet access in a 10 ppl village
<ogra> http://www.immobilienpalm.de/index.php?cat=expose&id=76&start=0
<tseng> i am writing more stuff for people reading the blog than for planet now
<tseng> i hope we dont get the same way as debian/gentoo planet
<ogra> did you see the new design of planet.gnome ?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> its fun, but i think ill get tired of it
<tseng> all the gfx fluff kind of distracts me when reading the shorter entries
<tseng> like Dave Neary's right now
* Mithrandir is RSS-only.
<tseng> i need blam to be smart about blog authors
<tseng> so when i read jdub on planet gnome, he is marked read everywhere else
<ogra> yeah, implement it
<ivoks> hi
<tseng> planet gnome, freedesktop, and ubuntu have enough overlap to be annoying
<Mithrandir> it should be easy enough.  Make the "read" list global.
<Mithrandir> and index it on URLs.
<tseng> indeed
<tseng> hopefully thats in the C# half of blam
<tseng> and not in c++
<Mithrandir> I should fix that in liferea.
* Treenaks points at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11060
<Treenaks>  again
<GheRivero> res people
<ivoks> does anyone knows, is there any plan to do graphical installer for ubuntu?
<GheRivero> i think so, but not for the next one
<Mithrandir> ivoks: there is.
<Mithrandir> possibly for breezy.
<ivoks> Mithrandir: any url?
<ivoks> Mithrandir: i would like to help
<ogra> ivoks, yes, i'm writing on it
<ivoks> ogra: you do?
<ogra> yep
<Mithrandir> ivoks: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller
<ivoks> great
<ivoks> thanx
<ogra> but only on the graphical part...
<GheRivero> ogra, any release plan?
<Mithrandir> ogra: the ubuntuexpress stuff or the gtk-stuff for d-i?
<ogra> Mithrandir, i'd go for both, but d-i is breezy+1 afaik
<Mithrandir> ogra: it was warty+1 a year ago.. :/
<ogra> Mithrandir, nope, it was woody+1  :)
<ogra> iirc
<Mithrandir> ogra: no, it never was.
<Mithrandir> ogra: I used to be the d-i developer, I kinda know d-i history. :P
<ogra> oh, i saw the first gtk+ d-i stuff short after woody release
<ogra> (was still gtk1)
<Mithrandir> woody doesn't have d-i. :)
<Mithrandir> it's b-f
<ogra> Mithrandir, i know, but before joey released the first d-i there was someone working on a gtk nterface...
<Mithrandir> ogra: yes, I know, and it was somewhat working, but never really a sarge target.
<ogra> Mithrandir, i know he dropped it, but i've seen screenshots...
<ogra> (it was ugly enough to prefer the text interface)
<Mithrandir> it had a lot of other problems, really.
<ogra> GheRivero, not yet.... i'm working on a basic mockup, to get some decisions from the release team about the design, then the real work will start... if possible it will only be a dbus frontend... UbuntuExpress is somewhat easier then the real installer...
<ivoks> A user boots the live CD, falls in love with Ubuntu, and wants to use it forever after - lol
<ogra> ...since you can do all settings in the first window + partitioning, the rest will only be some entertainment for the user while he waits :)
<ogra> hmmm
<ogra> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=176&item=5774576631&rd=1
<ogra> cheapo
<ogra> he sells it because of his GF
<ogra> mine just couraged me to buy it ;)
<tseng> hm
<tseng> grossrechner means to me "giant calculator"
<Mithrandir> that's just a rack?
<ogra> nope
<Mithrandir> or an actual s390?
<Mithrandir> for 25.5E?
<Mithrandir> that's bloody cheap
<ogra> a complete machine, including the maintenace lapto
<ogra> p
<Mithrandir> Karianne would kill me, though
<tseng> make her play with the fox while you "sneak" it in
<tseng> :)
<Mithrandir> good idea.
<ogra> yep, and susus wants it, so she can get my glass server cabinet for her tomatoes
<Mithrandir> might work.
<Mithrandir> for about 30 seconds.
<tseng> who is stephan hermann on irc?
<tseng> i dont have him matched up yet
<ogra> \sh
<tseng> ah rock on
<tseng> \sh: welcome aboard
<ogra> i think he's asleep....has to be up at 5
<ivoks> he's a MOTU? :)
<ogra> not yet
<tseng> a member
<ogra> a member
<ivoks> ah, ok
<tseng> its pretty easy to be a member
<tseng> just be a consistant contributor
<ivoks> hm, then i could be too? :)
<tseng> of anything..
<ogra> ivoks, sure
<tseng> sure make yourself a wiki page with all the cool stuff you do in ubuntu
<tseng> and when you feel like you deserve it, link yourself on the CC agenda :)
<ivoks> heh, Cxx transition
<ogra> ivoks, yep
<ivoks> and ubuntu.hr
<tseng> yep list packages/bugs you fixed then
<tseng> and that
<tseng> you should pass easy
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> then you can be on planet
<tseng> and eventually get an ubuntu email
<ivoks> planet?
<tseng> "eventually"
<tseng> planet.ubuntu.com
<ivoks> ah, ok
<ivoks> no need for email :)
<tseng> its just a forward
<ivoks> i'm admin of my mail server :)
<tseng> for bragging rights
<ivoks> ah, ok
<tseng> oh and you have a say in some meetings
<tseng> like approving new members
<tseng> eh, its cool, and will only take you a few minutes
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> will expand my wiki then
<tseng> so i finally got an atheros pci cards
<tseng> so tired of messing around with manfcts printing the same model # with different chips on it
<ogra> hmm....is that an advantage ?
<tseng> over the other crap I have, yes
<ogra> (a atheos card ?)
<tseng> 802.11g
<Mithrandir> ipw2200 now has monitor support.
<tseng> wow!
<tseng> i have that in my laptop
<Mithrandir> which totally rocks.
<tseng> yep thats the one missing feature
<tseng> once they enable the wpa stuff
<Mithrandir> 1.0.4 has; will be in the next+1 version.
<tseng> i wish there was a pci card based on the ipw chips
<Mithrandir> I don't care about WPA; and network is insecure, you have to do end-to-end encryption to be safe, imho.
<ivoks> yeah, i should d/w new ipw2200
<Mithrandir> heh, the PS3 has 256MB RAM and 256MB videoram.
<tseng> what arch is ps3?
<Mithrandir> powerpc
<tseng> people do not seem to grasp that the new xbox is ppc
<tseng> they keep talking about stuff like "what nt kernel will this run?" "will they have media center edition?"
<Mithrandir> well, I've run NT4 for PowerPC.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-22
<LaserJock> crimsun: xmaxima and wxmaxima work fine in sid, it must be something we did
<crimsun> LaserJock: hmm
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I don't understand what would have happended between sid and dapper that would do that
<LaserJock> other than perhaps the port is shutdown in Ubuntu or something, I dont' see how
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> 'lo ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> ok, now this bug is just making me mad
<crimsun> mad? time to spend some time w/ the wife and away from ooboontoo, then :-)
<LaserJock> yeah, I've got to go home and have dinner with wife and inlaws
<crimsun> kk. Don't worry, the bugs will be waiting when you return :-)
<LaserJock> but I want them fixed now :-)
<crimsun> and I want a pony :-)
<LaserJock> don't we all ;-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: is it possible that Ubuntu would be blocking port 4008?
<LaserJock> uggh. anyway, dinner awaits
<crimsun> Laser_away: no, we don't have any iptables+netfilter rules active by default
<crimsun> well, aside from ACCEPT
<Laser_away> crimsun: darn it, I just don't see why it shouldn't work in Dapper
<bddebian> Heya gang
<crimsun> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<Laser_away> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Howdy Laser_away
<bddebian> What's up gang?
* LaserJock grumples about stupid *maxima
<LaserJock> grumbles I suppose
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> Are these libmysqlclient apps supposed to be build against libmysqlclient15 instead of 10?
<bddebian> s/build/built/
<LaserJock> I blame bddebian for maxima not working right, he touched it last :-)
<bddebian> :'-(
<bddebian> What did I do?
<LaserJock> unfortunately I don't think you did anything
<LaserJock> if you had it would be easy to undo
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Damn, where's dholbach when I need him??
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bddebian
<zul> the mysql stuff?
<bddebian> Yeah
<bddebian> Are these libmysqlclient apps supposed to be build against libmysqlclient15 instead of 10?
<zul> i think so
<zul> *sigh* i love it when they fail
<bddebian> Who fails?
<zul> mysql-navigator with libmysqlcient15-dev
<bddebian> Hmm, I'm starting from the top, so hopefully we don't cross the streams :-)
<zul> im working from the bottom and doing some random ones
<zul> just to see
<bddebian> linesrv seemed to work OK
<zul> bleah why would an irc client depend on mysql
<bddebian> Lord only knows
<bddebian> zul: Are you SURE we are supposed to be using libmysql15? :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: why?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Why what?
<ajmitch> why are you asking about that?
<bddebian> To help clean up the list
<LaserJock> bddebian: it is libmysqlclient15off
<LaserJock> that things need to be rebuilt against
<zul> yeah im stopping until i find out more
<bddebian> WTF is the off?
<LaserJock> < dholbach> a bunch of stuff needs rebuilding again libmysqlclient15off
<LaserJock> < dholbach> infinity said they'd be *really* straightforward as the mysql api virtually never changes
<LaserJock> from my grepping the irc logs ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Coolio, thx
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<Hobbsee> hi glu
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
* Hobbsee needs to chop her nails off!
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee :)
<bhuvan> hi, i'm trying my hand on packaging. i run 'sudo pbuilder create'. it seem to download entire packages from "main". is this step mandatory ?
<Gloubiboulga> bhuvan, I think so
<bhuvan> Gloubiboulga, are you aware of approx. size ?
<Gloubiboulga> bhuvan, I can't tell
<bhuvan> ok. all i wish to do is create the package for "kibitz" command. i assume i'm in right path
<crimsun> bhuvan: it's about 300 MB
<crimsun> and yes, it's mandatory.
<crimsun> it only downloads and installs base
<bhuvan> oh ok, thank you
<sivang> ho ho motu world
<crimsun> hi sivang
<sivang> hey crimsun , what's up?
<crimsun> sivang: grunting through gvimdiff, yourself?
<sivang> crimsun: currently busy with stuff in the office, hopefully be getting less hectic towards noon :)
<crimsun> sivang: excellent
<phanatic> morning
<crimsun> hullo phanatic
<phanatic> hey crimsun
<sivang> crimsun: then attending to some bug fixes, which is the best I can do when at work, anything other then that demands more attention, is for home time :)
<phanatic> heya sivang :)
<phanatic> mornin dholbach
<dholbach> hey phanatic
<dholbach> good morning MOTU World!
<crimsun> 'morning daniel
<dholbach> hey Daniel
<dholbach> how's it going?
<crimsun> not bad, sifting through remaining alsa merges
<crimsun> yourself?
<dholbach> nice
<sivang> hey phanatic
<dholbach> I'm gradually waking up and after some icon work, I'll get cracking on 42679246 unread bug mails :)
<crimsun> ah, the life :-0
<crimsun> err :-)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> please, i'm new in ubuntu packaging
<Sp4rKy> and i need some help about packaging of audacious
<Sp4rKy> does anyone could help me ?
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<Hobbsee> argh, how do you check the rdepends of a package again?
<Sp4rKy> yes i know that
<Sp4rKy> thx
<crimsun> Hobbsee: meaning ``apt-cache rdepends foo'' ?
<Hobbsee> ahh...
<Hobbsee> that's it
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, i may split binary and library but :/
<Sp4rKy> ...
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: ..."but"?
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, but I do not arrive there
<crimsun> sorry, but I don't understand you
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, i don't made succes with split of binary and library
<Sp4rKy> the library package has been created
<Sp4rKy> but doesn't contain anything
<Sp4rKy> (i'm sorry , my english is very poor :/ )
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: then you probably need to use debian/libfoo.install
<Sp4rKy> i'll try , thx for your help
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: the packaging guide doesn't explain that process; you'd need to read the new maintainer's guide and the developer's manual
<Sp4rKy> i've read the new maintainers guide (a part of it)
<AnAnt> may someone help me with creating a package ?
<AnAnt> I used pbuilder to create elinks-0.11.1 package , but it called the package elinks_0.11-0.0upstream.deb
<AnAnt> why is that ?
<ivoks> the name of the package is the one in changelog
<AnAnt> oh ok
<AnAnt> thanks !
<ivoks> open changelog and look at first line
<AnAnt> cool !
<AnAnt> yes, that's good
<AnAnt> how/where do I submit my new package ?
<ivoks> to revu
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<AnAnt> thx
<Hobbsee> crimsun: there's a sound problem in #kubuntu that i dont remember how to fix.  want to take a look?  (dual sound cards)
<siretart> yay. fai looks way nicer now. only the udev 'bug' missing
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok, will look
<crimsun> Hobbsee: err, $person seems to have parted/quit
<Hobbsee> ah.  they just did.
<siretart> is Ahmed El-Mahmoudy around?
<AnAnt> yes
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> who knows me ?
<AnAnt> siretart: it must be that email
<siretart> AnAnt: yes. please upload your key to a keyserver
<siretart> I thought irc might be more quickly
<AnAnt> siretart: what keyserver ? I don't know any
<siretart> AnAnt: use 'gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com $YOURKEYID'
<siretart> AnAnt: use 'gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key $YOURKEYID'
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<siretart> gpgkeys: key 9DCA0B27 not found on keyserver
<AnAnt> my  keyid is 9DCA0B27
<AnAnt> oh, yes, that one
<siretart> ok. done. I've imported your key now
<XiXaQ> The Opera browser is not in the repositories? It's free and they package their software as .deb packages for Ubuntu. And it is a very nice browser.
<siretart> XiXaQ: their licence does not allow redistribution in our repositories
<AnAnt> siretart: same goes for realplayer 10 ?
<Yagisan> AnAnt: yeah.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> man, why do they put such licenses?
<Yagisan> AnAnt: XiXaQ: the general rule is, if it is propretry, and we don't have it, we can't distribute it.
<AnAnt> what does "we don't have it" mean ?
<Yagisan> AnAnt: it's not in multiverse
<AnAnt> k
<XiXaQ> Yagisan, even if the software is free?
<Yagisan> XiXaQ: yes. took *years* for sun to allow java to be redistributed
<XiXaQ> Yagisan, but if Opera Software agrees to let their .deb packages be distributed in the repositories, then you will?
<Yagisan> XiXaQ: it is unlikely their debs would be used, but if it was redistributable by anyone (not ubuntu specific), and if someone cared enough about it, then yes
<AnAnt> siretart: so, anything else I should do ?
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<XiXaQ> Yagisan, so the software doesn't have to be open source to get in the repositories, as long as it's free?
<XiXaQ> and redistributable.
<Yagisan> XiXaQ: strictly speaking yes. practically speaking, if it's not open source, it doesn't get much love because we can't fix it when (not if) it breaks.
<Hobbsee> hey crimsun - remember my warped sound?  it seems to be okay now, with the recent update of the linux-restricted modules *croses fingers* - go figure!
<Hobbsee> how do you apply a patch again?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: patch -p1 < cool_patch.diff
<Hobbsee> hmmm...it didnt work correctly.  odd.
<Sp4rKy> packaging of evas library  : 22packages :/
<beezly> hmph :/ tor users are banned in #ubuntu
<Yagisan> hmm that reminds me - I really need to get around to deploying a tor server
<beezly> Yagisan: yes, i got one up and running - it's shifting a fair few bits
<beezly> btw - whoever packaged up java 5 - thanks a lot. it's made my life about a thousand times easier :)
<Yagisan> beezly: IIRC doko packaged it. At least he is listed as maintainer
<beezly> Yagisan: cheers, if I see him on I'll be sure to thank him.
<Hobbsee> beezly: tor users?
<Hobbsee> why?
<beezly> Hobbsee: when I try to connect i get "Cannot join #ubuntu (You are banned)."
<Yagisan> beezly: might be your exit node
<beezly> Yagisan: I'm connecting to the hidden service
<Hobbsee> no, it's there... [20:52]  [367]  #ubuntu *!*@tor/session/* ChanServ!ChanServ@services. 1147235875
<beezly> i suspect tor/session/direct are banned
<beezly> Hobbsee: yes, that's the one
<beezly> would an /invite from an op in #ubuntu get around it?
<Hobbsee> beezly: did that work?
<beezly> Hobbsee:  no :(
<Hobbsee> oh
<beezly> i got the invite, but it made no difference
* Hobbsee considers unbanning it, but thinks that might be a little silly if she doesnt know why it's there in the first place
<beezly> mm, the recommendation on freenode is that quiet is used instead of ban.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: probably trolls
<beezly> http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#tor
<tseng> Hobbsee: tor is an anonymizing proxy
<Hobbsee> ah, so i see...
<tseng> Hobbsee: which is largely used to mask people doing things they shouldnt
<Hobbsee> yep
<tseng> like.. flooding channels
<beezly> tseng: but setting +q fixes that and still lets people in, even if they can't talk?
<tseng> not up to me
<beezly> i guess I just need to get a tor regular cloak - but there's no process for requesting them yet :/
<Hobbsee> beezly: i'm looking for a way to override those bans...
<Hobbsee> not exactly want to undo all the /tor stuff...
<beezly> Hobbsee: sure
<Hobbsee> beezly: are you in?
<Hobbsee> read only, so far...
<Hobbsee> grr...drat.
<beezly> heh - i joined but was then banned again :)
<Hobbsee> so i saw...
<Hobbsee> might have to go and ask lilo about that, or something...or get an unaffiliated cloak...
* Hobbsee is not great with all those weird IRC commands
<beezly> or I could work to become an Ubuntu Member - I ought to do that anyway :)
<Hobbsee> beezly: you've already tried http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml i presume?
<beezly> Hobbsee: yep - i normally used IPv6 - but I'm on a machine that can't do that at the moment
<beezly> and irc is blocked outbound for "operation reasons" - it's acceptable for me to use it where I am - I just have to get it working by myself.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<AnAnt> should I do -S -sa in both dpkg-buildpackage & pbuilder, or only one is enough?
<siretart> AnAnt: -S creates a sourceful upload, -sa includes full source. Please always upload with full source to revu
<AnAnt> well, myy question is should I use those options in both dpkg-buildpackage & pbuilder?
<AnAnt> or I can use those options in just one of those ?
<AnAnt> I had a problem when uploading, it gave me this error:gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. gpg: the signature could not be verified.
<AnAnt> btw, when I ran dpkg-buildpackage, it asked for my PGP key passphrase, and I supplied it
<siretart> AnAnt: just use the options '-uc -us' to prevent dpkg-buildpackage to sign the build
<siretart> AnAnt: use debsign before dputting the changesfile
<AnAnt> ok, cool
<AnAnt> thx
<AnAnt> k, thx
<siretart> slomo: ping
<beezly> Hobbsee: i managed to get on my ipv6 connection again - thanks for trying to help earlier
<Hobbsee> beezly: yay :)
<Hobbsee> sorry that i couldnt...
<beezly> np
<Hobbsee> there's a guy having a look at it, seeing if they can let you specifically connect, under that hostmask...
<beezly> the problem is the session ID changes each time you connect
<beezly> just a shame that some people find it acceptable to abuse something so useful :/
<Hobbsee> i know
<beezly> who was looking into it? I'm in #ubuntu now.
<beezly> Hobbsee: I'm interested in working on a specification - is there anything I should be looking at?
<beezly> apologies if you're not an appropriate person to ask
<Hobbsee> beezly: person was ompaul
<Hobbsee> on a spec...hmmm...i'm not the right person, but i do know about launchpad.net/specs
<beezly> ok - well there is a spec in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/etc-in-svn that I'm quite interested in
<beezly> i'm just wondering if there's anything I should be doing to work on it.
<`6og> hm. i'm looking to put mine in bzr *looks at spec*
<beezly> `6og: me too - i thought bzr would be a better fit
<Hobbsee> wherever...
<Hobbsee> i wonder what bzr is...
<`6og> bzr => svn
<`6og> Hobbsee: it's an rcs, fwiw
<Hobbsee> ah
<`6og> wish i could use it for my work, but the projects I'm in are using svn mostly (although ubuntu docs and hubackup don't... hm...
<beezly> it would be nice if dpkg could "know" to update the bzr repo whenever it touched files in /etc.
<kgoetz> beezly: it could be made to, but that's lots of workl. and what about people (like me), who hack files by hand :/
<beezly> kgoetz: then you have a cron job which runs once an hour to look for updated files
<kgoetz> beezly: you would also have the issue of files like /etc/resolv.conf which change depending on netowrk
<beezly> kgoetz: i guess there would need to be a blacklist too
<kgoetz> bzr has .ignore files, so that's actualy relateively easy i suppose
<beezly> kgoetz: should i just start writing some stuff out in the wiki to flesh out the spec a bit?
<kgoetz> beezly: yeh. go for it. hit me with a link and i'll check it out
<beezly> will do.
<kgoetz> ta
<Hobbsee> beezly: kgoetz https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
* kgoetz spots LSB complience on the list
* kgoetz growls
<Hobbsee> kgoetz: no reason you cant help :)
<kgoetz> Hobbsee: with the lsb? stupest fking standard i have ever seen :S
<beezly> kgoetz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VersionControlledEtc
<beezly> kgoetz: it's very rough and sketchy at the moment - i'm just thinking out loud on that page.
<slomo> siretart: pong
<siretart> slomo: jabber?
<kgoetz> beezly: looking
<kgoetz> beezly: nice
<beezly> kgoetz: yeah?
<beezly> it's very brief at the moment
<kgoetz> good start
* kgoetz added a few lines
<beezly> in case your wondering - "Andrew" and "Richard" are real people :)
<kgoetz> beezly: i asumed as much :) (hm. forgot to add myself as a contrib)
<beezly> kgoetz: added you
<kgoetz> beezly: thanks
<beezly> kgoetz: added my "implementation" :)
<kgoetz> sivang: ping?
<kgoetz> beezly: i'll check it out :)
<tseng> siretart: is that guy in your jabber icon you?
<tseng> siretart: or someone else
<gurumeditationer> If I want to contribute new/updated packages do I need to get them into debian before I can get them into ubuntu?
<tuxmaniac> gurumeditationer: I dont think so.. I might be wrong
<tarzeau> gurumeditationer: no, some packages are in ubuntu and not in debian
<gurumeditationer> I've been using Kismet and aircrack-ng a lot recently, particularly the newest versions via checkinstall.
<gurumeditationer> It'd be nice if I could get the new packages made nicely and make them available to everyone. I'm just trying to find out what kind of commitments I'm going to have to make to do that
<siretart> tseng: yes, thats is me on a ski trip. why?
<tseng> siretart: you look like someone else
<siretart> oh, really?
<siretart> the picture isn't really good anyway
<Bluekuja> hi guys
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> hi Bluekuja
<Bluekuja> hi LaserJock, do you have experience with library packaging?
<LaserJock> not really, packaging in general but not libraries
<Bluekuja> oh okie, coz i was working on a library, and as you know i get two packages, pack.deb and packdev.deb
<Bluekuja> with a debian/temp folder too
<Bluekuja> that stores all lib files
<Bluekuja> anyway do you know if -dev package is obbligatory?
<Bluekuja> making a library
<LaserJock> ok, are you working on an existing package or trying to do a new one by scratch?
<Bluekuja> new by scratch
<LaserJock> the Debian Policy manual would probably have some info, try checking out www.debian.org/devel/
<LaserJock> I'm sorta busy at the moment
<Bluekuja> LaserJock: np man :), anyway tnx
<phanatic> evenin
<Bluekuja> hello phanatic
<phanatic> hi Bluekuja
<Bluekuja> experience with library packaging?
<trappist> is the package name libterm-readline-perl-perl a mistake?
<tseng> no
<tseng> ~$ apt-cache search libterm-readline
<tseng> libterm-readline-gnu-perl - Perl extension for the GNU Readline/History Library
<tseng> libterm-readline-perl-perl - Perl implementation of Readline libraries
<tseng> libterm-readline-zoid-perl - Pure Perl implementation of Readline libraries
<trappist> couldn't have asked for a more complete answer - thanks :)
<tseng> np
<crimsun> I wish I could help these sync requests get processed in a more timely manner.
<zul> same here
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-23
<ajmitch> morning
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> heya everyone *yawns*
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch, imbrandon
<TheMuso> Is launchpad still down/in read-only?
<crimsun> should be back up
<TheMuso> Cheers.
<mkrufky> we at linuxtv.org just released dvb-apps 1.1.1 -- it is exactly the same as 1.1.0, with added support for ATSC ... could this be added to ubuntu sooner than later?
<mkrufky> http://linuxtv.org/download/linuxtv-dvb-apps-1.1.1.tar.bz2
<crimsun> mkrufky: for Edgy, sure. For Dapper? No.
<mkrufky> that is understandable
<mkrufky> however........
<crimsun> mkrufky: on the other hand, if the changes in 1.1.1 are unintrusive and consist mainly of #defines, then sure, you could backport them.
<mkrufky> does dapper actually have a realistic release date now?
<crimsun> yeah, 1 june.
<crimsun> freeze is essentially this saturday.
<mkrufky> we released 1.1.1 purely for the sake of letting americans and koreans use atsc
<mkrufky> it is exactly 1.1.0 .... all of the new stuff was held back
<crimsun> right, but realise we've been in upstream version freeze since /mid-February/
<mkrufky> the atsc support has been sitting there for over a year -- i just finally convinced the dvb-apps maintainer to put out this release for us poor americans/ canadians / koreans
<mkrufky> yes, i do realize that
<crimsun> generate a debdiff against the current Dapper package, then, and file a bug attaching the debdiff
<mkrufky> hmm... i never read up on the motu stuff
<crimsun> if someone can't eyeball the patch and approve it in 10 seconds, it's not worth it.
<mkrufky> is there a wiki anywhere that explains the debdiff stuff?  im sure its probably simple, i just dont know it
<crimsun> meaning: if it adds swathes of code, don't bother until Edgy opens
<mkrufky> it adds a bit... not very much
<mkrufky> but i can understand if you'd want to wait
<mkrufky> im really hoping to get the livecd distros to adopt it befor e the next releases
<mkrufky> may you put it on the to-do list?  or do i have to file a bug or something?
<crimsun> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-sync.html
<crimsun> read the debdiff section(s)
<mkrufky> ok
<crimsun> you should also read the Debian New Maintainer's and Developer's Guides
<crimsun> we're /extremely/ short on resources, so there's no guarantee that any of us will actually look until Edgy
<mkrufky> i understand
<mkrufky> im a kernel maintainer... in the same boat
<mkrufky> ;-)
<crimsun> then I'm sure you know why we prefer to defer :-)
<mkrufky> (note, im not THE maintainer.... just one of them) ... and yes, completely understandable why you'd want to wait
* crimsun returns to sound/core/
<mkrufky> ok, thanks
<crimsun> welp, I think that just about does it for sound/ for Dapper.
* crimsun sighs and gets coffee
<ajmitch> crimsun: at kernel freeze?
<ajmitch> sorry I haven't had time to reproduce my doom3/quake4 sound problem
<crimsun> ajmitch: nearly
<crimsun> well, at least the critical issues are either user hardware-specific or in userspace, so I have a bit of breathing room
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> Hi gang
<Kyral> Hello HurdFreak :P
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
* ajmitch needs a strong drink or something
<bddebian> ajmitch: Me too man
* tritium tends bar
<LaserJock> hi everybody!
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: have you fixed/broken Universe yet? :-)
<bddebian> Suuure :-)
<LaserJock> so I talked to the department sys admin today
<bddebian> Yeah and? :-)
<LaserJock> he was thinking of trying to teach a scripting/scientific computing class
<LaserJock> bash+python for scientists
<bddebian> Cool
<LaserJock> and so we were thinking that we could convert our present department computer lab into an Ubuntu LTSP setup
<LaserJock> and team teach the class in there
<crimsun> that's cool, but ... ouch? Surely there's an MPI/OpenMP class?
<LaserJock> MPI/OpenMP?
<crimsun> MPI and OpenMP are alternate and widely used paradigms in computational science
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, I'm thinking of stuff like "what does the ls command do?" ;-)
<LaserJock> we have linux computational clusters etc. but nobody knows linux
<LaserJock> so we have people doing lots of repetative tasks by hand
<crimsun> (you shouldn't have to know Linux anyhow)
<crimsun> Ubuntu LTSP is a step in the right direction at least
<LaserJock> right now we have a bunch of buggy XP machines that people don't really use for chemistry
<LaserJock> the problem right now is that there is a distinct lack of linux knowledge
<ajmitch> shouldn't take long to teach them the basics
<LaserJock> or of scripting knowledge in general (even python on Windows_
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> but somebody needs to do it ;-)
<ajmitch> it's fairly useful to know
<ajmitch> a friend of mine doing his phd in microbiology does a lot of stuff with perl - scripting knowledge has helped him quite a bit
<ajmitch> he also has enough linux knowledge to get by
<LaserJock> some of our international grad students have know computer experience at all and they are dumped into computational chemistry
<ajmitch> ubuntu does make it easy though
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu has a lot more chemistry software than what we presently have in the computer lab
<ajmitch> and it has a lot of python stuff
<ajmitch> it's not a particularly hard system to learn on
* ajmitch fetches the latest daily
<chillywilly> hi
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch>  410G  375G   32G  93% /usr/local
<LaserJock> wow
<ajmitch> yeah
<tritium> *sigh*  It's up to me to finish the bottle of wine we opened tonight...
<ajmitch> most of that isn't actual used space
<TheMuso> /usr/local? What have you got in there?
<LaserJock> hi tritium
<tritium> hi LaserJock
<bddebian> tritium: Sounds rough :-)
<tritium> bddebian: :)
<ajmitch> since I have a 165GB loopback file which I'll use as a LVM physical volume to backup stuff :)
<tritium> Well, I might have a headache in the morning
<LaserJock> tritium: I left 14 bottles of beer in the department office this evening after our department party
<LaserJock> I wonder if it will be there in the morning
<ajmitch> heh
<tritium> LaserJock: wow.  Graduation party?
* ajmitch needs beer
<ajmitch> someone ship me a daily amd64 image please
<LaserJock> tritium: no, the Chemistry Grad Student Association I (and a few others) started put on an end-of-semester party
<ajmitch> it's only downloading at 15K/sec here
<tritium> Oh, okay
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ouch
<ajmitch> LaserJock: tell me about it - I want to install on a server tomorrow
<LaserJock> ajmitch: can you rsync it?
<ajmitch> nothing to rsync from
<ajmitch> unless I go from a recent server install image
<LaserJock> :(
<ajmitch> which I might do
<ajmitch> that one is only a week old
<TheMuso> auc is alwaysy very busy hese days.
<TheMuso> and cdimage
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> flight 8 should be out soon
<ajmitch> then RC
<LaserJock> I wonder what June 1 will be like?
<ajmitch> we're approaching final freezes
<LaserJock> I though Flight 8 was canceled
<LaserJock> *thought
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well the .se mirror saturated its 2.5Gbps link on breezy release for several hours
<TheMuso> I think if one wants to get the release early, to rsync from the most recent daily they have.
* TheMuso will be doing that.
<ajmitch> cancelled?
* ajmitch hadn't heard that
<LaserJock> maybe it is just for one of the *other* Ubuntus ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> I can't keep them straight anymore
* chillywilly has no clue wtf is going on with Ubuntu :-/
* ajmitch rsyncs what he hopes is a server image
<ajmitch> the sizes seem quite different
<ajmitch> ah well
* ajmitch might have only a partial download
<ajmitch> chillywilly: release is SOOOOON
<crimsun> (Friday's a mandatory holiday for the distro team, so F8 is cancelled)
<ajmitch> crimsun: interesting
<LaserJock> hmm, are there any cdimage.  mirrors?
<crimsun> sure, try se.archive ;-)
<ajmitch> why is it a mandatory holiday? to ensure that they don't collapse in the last days before release?
<crimsun> ajmitch: from what I understand, yep
<ajmitch> makes sense :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<chillywilly> wimps ;)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you try working for them & see if you last even 2 weeks :)
<jaldhar> talking about Friday 27th?
<crimsun> jaldhar: tomorrow the 19th
<chillywilly> ajmitch: piece of cake ;)
<chillywilly> I bet this slacker guy names ajmitch that I know wouldn't make it ;)
<chillywilly> named*
* chillywilly ducks
<chillywilly> *quack*
* ajmitch looks at how many uploads chillywilly has to dapper
<chillywilly> 0
<jaldhar> oops its thursday already.
<ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good afternoon
<jsgotangco> lunch brb
<ajmitch> some people
<ajmitch> they come to work & start lunch straight away
<crimsun> ;-)
<TheMuso> heh
<chillywilly> I wub you ajmitch
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I do that but I eat while I'm working
<ajmitch> that's not quite as bad :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I wish I could get our sys admin to ditch SuSe 9 for Ubuntu, but the last time we had a reinstall lots of bad things happened
<AnAnt> I have 2 questions on REVU :
<AnAnt> 1. how can I search the REVU site to see if a package is there ?
<AnAnt> 2. I uploaded 2 packages yesterday, yet I didn't get any login yet
<crimsun> AnAnt: [1]  Use your Web browser's in-place Find function
<crimsun> AnAnt: [2]  Have you recovered your password yet?
<AnAnt> crimsun: I tried, and it gave me an encrypted password
<AnAnt> I decrypted it, and it was "None", so I tried to login with it
<AnAnt> but it failed
<crimsun> AnAnt: you'll need to have a REVU admin look at it, then.
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> crimsun: can I download a package from REVU ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: most links are public
<AnAnt> links ?
<AnAnt> I don't see any links !
<crimsun> AnAnt: when you click on a package, there are a set of links
<crimsun> some you won't be able to download, some you will
<AnAnt> crimsun: can u see if there are elinks-0.11.1 & kchmviewer-2.5 packages there ?
<crimsun> not that I see
<TheMuso> I don't see elinks.
<TheMuso> Nor the other package you mentioned.
<AnAnt> wierd
<AnAnt> I uploaded them yesterday
<ajmitch> because you uploaded binary packages, not source-only
<AnAnt> both !
<AnAnt> I did -S -sa
<ajmitch> binary packages were uploaded
<ajmitch> you must upload the package_source.changes file, not the i386.changes
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> btw, there isn't any source_changes
<ajmitch> there will be if you build with -S -sa
<AnAnt> doesn't dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa create that ?
<AnAnt> you mean, also pbuild should be run with it ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> pbuilder doesn't need to be run like that
<AnAnt> well, I don't get it
<ajmitch> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa creates the source.changes file which you need to upload with dput
<AnAnt> oic
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> btw, I should upload sources-only or sources & binary ?
<AnAnt> cool !
<AnAnt> but I still can't search packages ?
<AnAnt> are the packages on that page the only packages uploaded to REVU or just the most recent packages uploaded ?
<ajmitch> AnAnt: all packages
<AnAnt> ic
<AnAnt> I try to run dpkg-buildpackage on some package, I got this error: /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 150: debian/rules: Permission denied
<AnAnt> what's that ?
<crimsun> well, is debian/rules actually executable?
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> nope
<AnAnt> cool, I changed that, thanks
<AnAnt> I get this warning: Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be rejected by the upload queue management software.
<AnAnt> that was for a package that I uploaded a previous version of it before
<AnAnt> previous revision to be accurate
<AnAnt> so, what should I do ? is there a way to create an upload file that doesn't upload .orig. tarball again ?
<Mithrandir> don't build with -sa?
<AnAnt> ic
<AnAnt> thx
<AnAnt> thanks
<AnAnt> ok, does that warning mean that my whole upload is rejected or only the .orig. tarball ?
<Mithrandir> it'll all be rejected
<crimsun> AnAnt: REVU always requires full source upload including the orig.tar.gz if non-native
<AnAnt> crimsun: what is non-native means ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: non-native means the package was not created specifically for Debian or its derivatives
<crimsun> AnAnt: i.e., there's no orig.tar.gz
<AnAnt> crimsun: so I upload the orig.tar.gz, even if I am uploading a new revision of a package that I uploaded yesterday ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: yes, but /only/ for REVU
<AnAnt> i see
<crimsun> sorry, what I said may read unclearly. A non-native source /will/ have an orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> for instance, the following is native: wxwidgets2.6_2.6.1.2ubuntu2.tar.gz
<crimsun> and the following is non-native: vlc_0.8.4.debian.orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> non-natives have diff.gzs
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<AnAnt> oic
<AnAnt> crimsun: so if I am uploading a package that is not in the distro I got , the most probably it is non-native
<crimsun> 'morning daniel
<dholbach> crimsun: hey daniel
<AnAnt> crimsun: let's say, wxwidgets2.8 is out for example
<crimsun> AnAnt: if it doesn't already exist in Debian or Ubuntu but does exist "upstream", then it will be non-native /unless/ you are the upstream author and are packaging it specifically for Debian or its derivatives
<AnAnt> crimsun: and I don't see wxwidgets2.8 on the REVU, in that case it is non-native, and I should put the orig tarball, right ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: in general, yes, but wxwidgets is a pathological case.
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<crimsun> AnAnt: we never use actual upstream wxwidgets tarballs because they're far too buggy. The Debian maintainer, Ron Lee, generates native Debian source for them.
<dholbach> heya TheMuso
<Hobbsee> bug 34992
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 34992 in kdenetwork "Name with ampersand appears with underscore in menus" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34992
<AnAnt> btw, when I make a package for elinks, I got this from linda: Package contains autoconf-generated files.
<AnAnt> what's that ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: elinks is already in dapper - or there's some reason it cant be packaged...
<TheMuso> You have files that are used for autoconf in your .diff.gz, which is generally not desired.
* Hobbsee has an elinks deb, somewhere
<Hobbsee> no, wait...maybe that's links2
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: It is in universe,but my guess is that  it is an older version.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: that's version 0.11.1 of elinks that I am packaging
<Hobbsee> there's something weird about those packages though - check the README
<Hobbsee> er...you're packaging the same one as is in the repos?
<Hobbsee> or am i missing something here?
<AnAnt> TheMuso: what are those autoconf files ? how can I know them ?
<Hobbsee> oh, yes, i see...dont mind me...
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok
<Hobbsee> this is post dapper, presumably...
<dholbach> AnAnt: lintian -i *.deb    or    lintian -i *.changes    should tell
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: also in the changelog you'll find that I compiled elinks with many features, ECMAScript other stuff
<TheMuso> AnAnt: What I do is unpack the .orig.tar.gz by hand, and manually patch in the .diff.gz file and look at the filenames mentioned in the output.
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: fair enough
<TheMuso> Anything with a .m4 extension, Makefile or config* is considered autoconf related.
* Hobbsee just didnt want you to do a whole lot of work, then find "oh drat, it doesnt work" for whatever reason
* Hobbsee thinks that's pretty pointless.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Never knew that one. You learn something new every day.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: and it's version 0.11.1 , it has a feature that I missed in 0.10.6
<Hobbsee> so i see :)
<TheMuso> AnAnt: BTW are you building elinks with libsmjs1 as a dependancy?
<Hobbsee> i thought that you were saying that 0.11.1 was already there, so you were packaging it...
<AnAnt> TheMuso: yes
<Hobbsee> and thought that was a little odd :P
<TheMuso> Good.
<AnAnt> TheMuso: for the ECMAScript
<AnAnt> but I failed to enable perl , dunno why
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<AnAnt> TheMuso: I looked at the diff, it only added debian scripts !
<AnAnt> TheMuso: or to be accurate , it modified the debian scripts
<TheMuso> AnAnt: Try what dholbach suggested.
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> lintian only printed a W: line, not E: line
<AnAnt> oh hang on
<AnAnt> the only E: lines I get from lintian *changes is about: elinks source: invalid-arch-string-in-source-relation
<AnAnt> I don't see that this has to do with  linda report about autoconf files
<AnAnt> well, I don't think I can fix it
* torkel hugs dholbach, siretart and slomo for the UVF approval of openafs
<dholbach> yo torkel :-)
<torkel> hi dholbach :-)
<AnAnt> btw,  I got a question,
<AnAnt> I got the deb files of VIM7 from debian experimental repos
<AnAnt> tried to install it, but it turned not to work because it required some libc6 package that is in debian
<AnAnt> so I got the source package, and made a ubuntu1 package from it
<AnAnt> is that ok, or wrong ? unethical I mean
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: no, that's allowed :)
<Hobbsee> all of this is for edgy, though...unfortunately...
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ?
<AnAnt> after dapper is released, aren't there something called updates ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: you cant get new features into dapper by now...
<Hobbsee> yes, to the development version...
<AnAnt> you mean updates are not for stable version ?
<Hobbsee> june 1, dapper gets released as stable, and the only things it gets are security updates...
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> so I guess when edgy becomes beta, I will go for it too
<crimsun> AnAnt: 1) security fixes go into dapper-security; 2) critical "ohshi should've been fixed and prevents $app from starting" bugfixes go into dapper-updates; 3) newer versions are backported from edgy to dapper-backports
<AnAnt> dapper beta is pretty stable (I started from beta2)
<ajmitch> when edgy is opened, we'll be syncing from debian
<ajmitch> so anything newer in debian will be imported
<AnAnt> ok, so if I allow the backports repo, I will get them, that's cool
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> not everything gets backported
<ajmitch> it's always done on a case-by-case basis
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: and that's where a double boot comes in - dapper and edgy...so then you can use one, and develop on the other... or just use the development version
<Hobbsee> and fall back on dapper, if you need it...
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, btw
<`6og> hm. anyone here know about suns new java packages? they went into Debian a few days ago. i'm wondering if they are the ones that got pushed into ubuntu recently?
<kelmo> afaik, debian and ubuntu developers were working together with sun engineers, so i guess ubuntu will also get the rewards of that too
<`6og> kelmo: i ask because debian-devel and -legal lists have gone crazy about the licence. i was wondering if we(ubuntu) had looked at it
<`6og> i thinkm the package is sun-java5 *checks*
<AnAnt> what is changelog-should-mention-nmu
<AnAnt> it is the jdk
<AnAnt> cool
<kelmo> AnAnt: when your name is not in Maintainer: or Uploaders: field of control file, and you have changed the package, it is a "NMU"
<AnAnt> kelmo: oh, so I should add my name to Uploaders ?
<kelmo> usually when a NMU is done, the first changelog entry is s.th like "Non Maintainer Upload"
<crimsun> AnAnt: generally you can ignore that warning in Ubuntu universe/multiverse.
<kelmo> and the revision gets a dot point increment
<AnAnt> k
<kelmo> ( i say usually, and speak without experience of ubuntu motu maintainership)
<ajmitch> (hi Hobbsee)
<herzi> can someone please take care of https://launchpad.net/bugs/35825
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35825 in gq "Does not appear in the menu" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<sivang> herzi: can this be solved with a sync from debian?
<TheMuso> According to the bug, an update has been requested.
<AnAnt> crimsun: how do I know wether my package is going into universe or multiverse ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: license, and it's set on the server.
<crimsun> AnAnt: you really should be aiming for universe unless you have a compelling non-DFSG-free reason for multiverse
<AnAnt> crimsun: what server ?
<crimsun> AnAnt: properly "the archive"
<crimsun> (contains the overrides)
<AnAnt> I don't understand
<crimsun> sorry, I'm fairly useless right now, been staring at alsa* for the past 27-odd hours
* crimsun falls asleep
* Hobbsee hands crimsun a cup of coffee
<Yagisan> Do we have an ubuntu-legal ? We have a package with a license that if I read correctly is unsuitable for Ubuntu.
<Yagisan> as I read it, to comply with the license, we need to stop shipping python, perl, gcc et al
<kgoetz> Yagisan: java? no we don't have a -legal
<Yagisan> kgoetz: yeah, the sun-java package
<kgoetz> Yagisan: I'm just in -devel asking. the reply is 'it's ok', but i'm a bit sus after reading Debian lists
<Yagisan> kgoetz: I'm reading the license now, and it isn't any more free the the last one
<kgoetz> Yagisan: i havent read it (that's Debian-legals job ;D), but i don't like the sound of it either
<ivoks> so... java will get in main now, or what?
<kgoetz> sun? multiverse
<Yagisan> ivoks: no multiverse, so its ours
<ivoks> Yagisan: ok
<Yagisan> ivoks: and it still doesn't pass the DFSG enough for "non-free" or "multiverse"
<ivoks> heh
<Yagisan> ivoks: a windows EULA is more free. It at least doesn't prohibit competing solutions
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: dfsg doesn't apply to non-free or multiverse, so that's fine.
<Mithrandir> non-free and multiverse just needs us to be able to redistribute it, nothing more.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: sorry. Having my stuff rejected on those grounds for multiverse, makes me inclined to disagree with you
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: oh, what was rejected?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: a game
<Mithrandir> with what licence?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: no big deal, but I don't see why sun is special
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: non-commercial
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's sun :)
<Mithrandir> that's not a licence.  That's a class of such
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: also, Sun and Ubuntu might have an agreement which is not public for all I know.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: Raven Non-Commercial License
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: in effect a BSD + You can't sell this
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: if Sun and Ubuntu have an agreement, it isn't displayed when you install the package
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: that doesn't decide whether it can be distributed or not.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: I'm not able to find any licence caled "raven non-commercial license"
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I'll get you a link. just a Sec
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: Raven License http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/uf/Ravenlic.txt
<herzi> sivang: i don't think so
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: the sun license, while granting redistribution, is over broad and restricts distribution of alternatives in section 2c. Reading that means, we must remove perl, python, gcc et al
<herzi> sivang: no, it can't. http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=gq
<kgoetz> Yagisan: you follow Debian-legel or -devel? if not i'll dig up the threads on sun java
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: that licence doesn't allow redistribution, so it's not suitable even for non-free.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: I disagree with your interpretation of 2c.
<Yagisan> kgoetz: I get the DD digest periodically. Haven't read them yet
<herzi> sivang: but it's basically removing the debian-specific patches (except one) and copying the debian directory into a 1.0.0 tree
<kgoetz> the stuff on -legal and -devel is worth a read if you want to talk about this stuff. severalpeople who know thier stuff talking
<sivang> herzi: care to email me with the details? I can try take care of it when I arrive home.
<herzi> address?
<sivang> herzi: sivan@ubuntu.com
<sivang> herzi: please reference the bug report number on LP, thanks
<herzi> i'll do
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: no not under European law it doesn't. That is irrelevant however, as the code is being rewritten under a GPL license.
<sivang> herzi: thanks again, sorry for too many request but I'm currently at work and I don't want this to get lost :)
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: there's no such thing as "european law".
<herzi> that's fine
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: and that the licence doesn't allow redistribution means, well, that it can't be redistributed.  At least in all jurisdictions I'm vaguely familiar with.
<Mithrandir> ehlo Hobbsee
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: in general if it isn't explicitly permitted, it is forbidden in most European countries correct ?
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: whilst here, if it isn't explicitly forbidden, it is permitted until a court or parliament rules otherwise.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: that's the so called "public law", iirc, yes.  Which applies to public law countries.
<kgoetz> bbs
<Mithrandir> s/public/civil)
<Mithrandir> s/\)/\//
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: I do agree the Raven License is not good, hence my desire to change it.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: yes, I'd suspect .au of being a common law country, not a civil law one, since it's part of the british commonwealth.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: the copyright laws in most parts of the world; both common and civil law countries do disallow redistribution unless explicitly granted, though.
<Mithrandir> so I don't see why you think that distinction is important here?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: that distinction was Ubuntu's reason to reject some software until re-licensing is completed. How is sun-java more free ?
<Mithrandir> it grants the explicit right of redistribution.
<Mithrandir> the raven licence says: "Make copies of this Program or any part thereof, or make copies of
<Mithrandir> the materials accompanying this Program."
<Mithrandir> under the "You shall not" heading
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: and removes the right to use it in conjunction with other languages, and amusingly enough forbids use of it to write portable java programs in section 2b.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: the "you can't use this to write java software to be distributed" clause is silly, but doesn't make it undistributable.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: no, but is it really in the interests of our users ?
<Mithrandir> to be able to run java software they've gotten from somewhere?  I think so, yes.
<Mithrandir> I have servers running proprietary java software where being able to just do apt-get install java-sun5 would be nice.  Not critical, but nicer than having to download and install it by hand.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: we had that ability. We have now traded it for no visible gain
<Mithrandir> we did?
<herzi> sivang: sent
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: yeah. anything after java 1.4 wasn't guaranteed to work, though.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: the java-package workaround was just that, a workaround.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: blackdown
* ajmitch hopes that we can get sun-java5 on sparc soon as well
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: which means adding random repositories to your apt setup, which is something I'd _really_ not do.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: with the new sun-java, according to the clause 2b, I can not write uni assignments with it
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: use something else, then?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: j2re1.4 was in the official repos ...
<Mithrandir> well, people will want java 5 so that's not so relevant
<sivang> herzi: thanks
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: well, people want kernel 2.6.16, so shipping 2.6.15 isn't relevant. Same argument, yet a different response isn't it.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: we'll be shipping 2.6.16 or .17 in eft.
<Whoopie> first, many thanks for syncing sensors-applet and nautilus-actions!!!
<Yagisan> anyway, I understand. It's sun, so it gets special treatment.
<herzi> sivang: i'd like to see that update, so i'll do my part for it (releasing gq 1.0.0 and pushing debian/ubuntu to deliver it)
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: you've so far failed to come up with any sort of backing for that statement.  You've pointed to a licence which _doesn't_ grant redistribution rights and which was therefore rejected.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: noth license have issues. both should be rejected. one was not
<Whoopie> I'm little confused. I installed sensors-applet before from a local deb package. After "sudo apt-get update", the package wasn't installed from the universe repository. Before, when a package came into a repo which had the same version, it was updated by default. Did there change anything?
<Yagisan> s/not/both
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: why?  It's legal to distribute it and it's useful.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: why redistribute something that the license forbids using ?
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: because it doesn't?
<Mithrandir> it forbids using for some things.
<Mithrandir> like, a bunch of stuff in multiverse is not legal to use commercially.
<Mithrandir> it can still be useful for me to use at home
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: it clearly does. You may not develop with this software, yet you ship a jdk, which exists to develop software
<Mithrandir> you can develop stuff for your own use, which is useful.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: assuming you have an all Ubuntu environment.
<Mithrandir> uh, why is it less useful if you have a Debian box sitting in a corner?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: sure, if you want to run that java software you made on the Ubuntu box using that sun-java package, on the Debian box, you can't without violating 2b. You do make end users agree to the DLJ-1.1 on install remember.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: why was it so vital to shove it into dapper at the last minute with such a problematic license ?
<Mithrandir> copying software from one machine you control to another is usually not considered distribution
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: I don't think the licence is particularly problematic.  Sure, it's inconvenient for the user in some places, but that's multiverse.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: but that is not what the license says, is it.
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: the licence doesn't define what it means by the term "distribute", so a "common definition" must be used.
<Mithrandir> anyway, I'm not particularly interested in this discussion, and I don't think we'll end up in agreement so I'll refrain from debating this further and rather debug openbox.
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: no, the license says it may only run under your  "Operating System", once you go to that hypothetical Debian box, the "Operating System" has changed
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: understood
<cyberix> Dapper Java 5 packages are b0rked.
<cyberix> I know you are not motm
<cyberix> But I wasn't sure, if motm exists
<cyberix> sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented
<cyberix> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/sun-java5-bin_1.5.0-06-1_amd64.deb (--unpack): subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 2
<Yagisan> bug #45292
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45292 in sun-java5 "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45292
<Yagisan> cyberix: known. Please confirm it
<cyberix> I don't have my launchpad account at hand.
<cyberix> Maybe later today.
<cyberix> The bug affects the non-interactive debconf frontend.
<cyberix> Feel free to post a note including quotes from this irc dicussion.
* StevenK_ jumps on Hobbsee.
<StevenK_> Argh, I have a _.
<StevenK_> Get it off!
* Hobbsee stomps on StevenK in return
<StevenK> Ow!
* Hobbsee chops all his hair off
* Mithrandir tickles the two birds.
<Hobbsee> on his head.  silly StevenK!
* Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir in the ribs
<sivang> kgoetz: http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~sivan/upbackup--main  , try this
<kgoetz> sivang: do i bzr branch it? (sorry, i'm not familar as i would like with bzr
<sivang> kgoetz: sure, that will get you my branhc and you could work on it and do bzr diff to send me patches against my last revisoin
<kgoetz> cool ok.
<sivang> kgoetz: I will be most happy to get patches, there is a nice bug list in LP :)
<kgoetz> sivang: i'll try and get familiar with pythyon first :)
<sivang> kgoetz: sure thing :)
<kgoetz> is there a person i can go and ask 'how does compiling Gnome work', or is that an rtfw question?
<herzi> kgoetz: that's both an faq and a rtfw
<herzi> kgoetz: http://gnome.org/start/2.14/
<kgoetz> thanks herzi
<herzi> you're welcome
<kgoetz> thanks ;)
<beezly> kgoetz: i think i have a package that you can try and build/use.
<kgoetz> beezly: Gnome?
<beezly> the etc-in-svn spec.
<beezly> except it's etc-in-bzr at the moment :)
<kgoetz> beezly: cool :)
<beezly> it's scrappy - but it does do something useful.
<beezly> kgoetz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VersionControlledEtc has the info about where to download
<kgoetz> i'll check it out soon :)
<beezly> it's rough - but i just wanted to see it working. I've had it running since yesterday and ran a dist-upgrade earlier and it seems to have done sensible things.
<beezly> i might mail to ubuntu-devel
<iegary> hi... maybe someone has seen it, but I wanted to point out bug #29398 - I might get a chance to make some patches over the weekend, but not sure.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 29398 in openmotif "CVE-2005-3964: Two exploitable buffer overflows in openmotif" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29398
<crimsun> iegary: ok, please keep us updated about them. I'll try to look at that this afternoon.
<iegary> crimsun: thanks
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it's pretty hard to bug triage on bug day, if there arent people in #ubuntu-bugs helping out, from higher up, to ask questions from
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> I'll try to round up more people next time
<Hobbsee> dholbach: that'd be cool :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<Mithrandir> it's the bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee and Mithrandir
<ajmitch> hello
<Mithrandir> hiya ajmitch
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> what are you doing awake ajmitch?  :P
<ajmitch> me? awake?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> unless your'e typing while asleep :P
<bddebian> Mithrandir: "the" bddebian? :-)
<Mithrandir> bddebian: yup.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's a possibility
<Hobbsee> hehe
* ajmitch is still awake & decided to stick around for the meeting also
<Hobbsee> oh fair enough
<zakame> hi all, what meeting?
<Hobbsee> zakame: ubuntu dev team
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> heya Hobbsee ! bddebian !
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> hi ajmitch !
<siretart> bddebian: re bug #41592
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41592 in vnc4 "UVF Exception: vnc4 (now sync request)" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41592
<bddebian> siretart: Yeah, WTF?
<siretart> bddebian: scott wants to know if you actually tested the new version, and have checked that ubuntu changes have been merged or not necessary anmore
<siretart> anymore
<siretart> bddebian: a sync overrides all local ubuntu changes. we need to double check if we really want to throw away work
<bddebian> siretart: I know but I didn't know that somone had already brought in 4.1.1 which was what the original request was for.  I don't even know if a sync is necessary anymore
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<siretart> heyho ajmitch
<siretart> bddebian: could you please check that?
<bddebian> siretart: Check what?
<siretart> bddebian: if we need to merge the package, or if all ubuntu changes can be dropped
<ajmitch> bddebian: the changelog for 4.1.1 in ubuntu dates back to january though?
* bddebian is all confused now
<siretart> bddebian: look, you suggested a sync of version 4.1.1+X4.3.0-7 from unstable.
<siretart> bddebian: in the meantime, we have 4.1.1+X4.3.0-10 in sid
<siretart> bddebian: now in dapper we have version 4.1.1-0ubuntu4
<siretart> bddebian: please compare the dapper and sid package, and day if we can drop the changes. or you can reject the request, if you think the version we have in dapper now is okay
<bddebian> siretart: Did you look at my comment?  -10 is not in unstable unless packages.d.o is wrong
<siretart> eris:~# apt-cache showsrc vnc4 | grep Version
<siretart> Version: 4.1.1+X4.3.0-10
<siretart> bddebian: eris is an unstable box
<bddebian> siretart: Can you please pull the source and see if the .dsc is actually -10? please
<ajmitch> confirmed, I see it as well
<siretart> Bluekuja: please ask in channel. use dput on changes files rather than .dsc files
<ajmitch> bddebian: it really really is
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well I don't have a debian box and packages.d.o has -9.dsc
<Bluekuja> sirestart: okie perfect let me see
<ajmitch> bddebian: never trust web interfaces
<ajmitch> bddebian: I use a sid chroot
<siretart> bddebian: p.d.o is lagging behind a bit
<Bluekuja> sirestart: same error with the .changes file
<siretart> Bluekuja: no idea then
<ajmitch> Bluekuja: what error?
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: i paste you the error in a pastebin, just a second
<ajmitch> ok
<Bluekuja> ajmitch. here it is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14217
<ajmitch> Bluekuja: pastebin the changes file please
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: okie, here it is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14219
<ajmitch> how was this signed?
<tseng> what is this book?
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: normal gpg signature
<ajmitch> hm, bad
<ajmitch> always use debsign, or debuild (which calls debsign)
<ajmitch> hi doko
<phanatic> hi people
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: well no, it was pgp
<ajmitch> Bluekuja: right, and it's not signing in the way dput is expecting
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: exactly, dput doesnt accept pgp
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: thats why i get that
<ajmitch> once that is done, then we can start on fixing the packaging errors :)
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<ajmitch> Bluekuja: ?
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: i re-build the package with debuild
<Bluekuja> ajmitch: so it will use debsign for it
<ajmitch> yes
<Bluekuja> thanks man, let me work on it for a while
<Bluekuja> ;)
* ajmitch ought to sleep or something soon
<ajmitch> meeting is over, I can put the laptop down now
<Hobbsee> sleep's overrated.
<tuxmaniac> re
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Hi. How was the trip??
<bddebian> Interesting. ;-)   I wasn't supposed to come back until Friday
* tuxmaniac stresses Dapper is GOD! It can change anything..
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, KDE packages using cdbs just need a rebuild with your patch, right?
<Gloubiboulga> and hi all :)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: which?  the cdbs patch?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<Hobbsee> assuming they use the kde.mk that's in cdbs
<Gloubiboulga> yep, thanks :)
<Hobbsee> some have written their own kde.mk file, and redistribute that in with their package
<Hobbsee> obviously that needs changing too...
<phanatic> hi Gloubiboulga and Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> heya phanatic :)
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> night all...
<bddebian> siretart, dholbach, et al, can you please check Bug #44207 if you get a sec?  Thx.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44207 in libspiffy-perl "UVF Exception Request: libspiffy-perl" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44207
<Tonio_> hello
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<Gloubiboulga> hello Tonio_ :)
<Tonio_> hey Gloubiboulga
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: How to handle these reports on
<tuxmaniac> How to handle reports on .desktop missing!
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: ?
<tuxmaniac> bug #44821
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44821
<tuxmaniac> How do I confirm accept do whatever with such type of bugs?
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Pull the source and see if there is a .desktop file in it
<iegary> tuxmaniac: iirc, if it doesn't have a .desktop file but needs it, it's best to open a bug in the Debian BTS rather than add the patch in launchpad.
<bddebian> There is one open in BTS
<tuxmaniac> .desktop not present
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: So I confirm it? Then how do we fix it or do anything
<tuxmaniac> iegary: There is a BTS error open already!
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Make one :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: What do you mean by make one.. He has already relased a .desktop file http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=367366
<tuxmaniac> I will confirm it?
<iegary> tuxmaniac: yes, and link to the upstream bug.
<tuxmaniac> iegary: Ok
<tuxmaniac> linking to the upstream bug means??
<Spec> oh :p
<Spec> so I think the best thing to do is file a bug with both and provide a .desktop file on both launchpad and debian's BTS?
<Spec> and then cross-link both bug reports?
<iegary> tuxmaniac: click "Also affects 'Upstream'", select appropriate bug tracker, bug number, component.
<tuxmaniac> ok
<tuxmaniac> thanks iegary
<iegary> Spec: as long as there's a pointer to upstream (you could say there's a patch upstream), no need to add an attachment again
<neutrinomass> Spec: I've been filing stuff on the BTS and simply linking from launchpad. It's probably pointless to add the .desktop to LP as well, since you might want to change it.
<iegary> talk to sfllaw if you need more info on what the preferred way is
<neutrinomass> Should I stop filing the bug reports and just file on the debian BTS ?
<iegary> neutrinomass: I forget what sfllaw said... the bug report won't hurt though.
<Spec> mmhmm
<Spec> to file on debian's BTS you have to do it via e-mail :-/
<Spec> or reportbug
<bddebian> No, you don't have to but it's preferred i think :-)
<Spec> is reportbug on ubuntu for debian's BTS?
<neutrinomass> iegary: OK. I don't remember talking to sfllaw but I was generally told that it's beter to go upstream to minimize the packaging effort for Ubuntu.
<neutrinomass> Spec: Yes, and it's considered a bug. The e-mail thing is not that tough after all (I was reluctant to use it at first too ).
<Spec> reportbug on ubuntu reporting to debian is considered a bug? :p
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: I guess he product of gerbv is geda!?
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: BTW you seem to be my taste? EDA developer?
<Spec> but all the packages that are directly imported from debian should have bugs filed against them on debian's BTS
<bddebian> But if you just add it to BTS and we don't sync that package again, it won't get in Dapper eh?
<neutrinomass> Bug #7839
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 7839 in Ubuntu "Ubuntu bug reporting tools need to point to Ubuntu bug systems" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/7839
<Spec> hehe
<Spec> well, that means i can use reportbug ^.^
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Not really. I just decided that given my lack of ability to do anything else, I might as well write desktop files :(
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Sorry, I can't understand your geda/gerbv comment ..
<Spec> meh, i smell chicken. and it smells good.
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: There is a column called product in which the name has to be put.. gerbv is not present
<tuxmaniac> geda I guess will be suitable?
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Well, the package maintainer can always get the .desktop from the debian bts if they wish to upload it for dapper.
<tuxmaniac> in the Affects Upstream Link in LP
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Oooops, sorry. I thought I filed it correctly. IIRC the package should be 'gerbv'
<tuxmaniac> yes.. But it says invalid product when I mention gerbv
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Um...possible. I distinctly remember filing it under "gerbv" too.... I just checked and the package 'gerbv' exists though ...
<tuxmaniac> package exists!! But somehow it is not accepting
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: The product name in "Request fix in a product" is to be put as what?
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: We're talking about bug 44821 right? It's under 'gerbv' ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44821
<neutrinomass> Btw, when filing the bug reports for the .desktops, should I set them to "confirmed" and "minor" myself to save the others from the triaging ?
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gerbv/+bug/44821/+upstreamtask
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44821 in gerbv "No .desktop file" [Minor,Confirmed] 
<tuxmaniac> it does not allow me to mention the product name as gerbv
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ah.... I understand. I don't know. This is a non-issue anyway so it doesn't really matter, right ? :) (nice to learn what EDA stands for btw )
<tuxmaniac> I am putting it as geda and leaving it ther!
<bddebian> neutrinomass: There is no "package maintainer" in Universe :)
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Masters of the Universe!!!! :)
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Interesting....So the maintainer listed on LP is for nominal reasons ?
<tuxmaniac> Mostly they match with the upstream maintainers name :)
<tuxmaniac> I mean sorry
<tuxmaniac> Debian Maintainer name
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ohhh, that explains it :) This is intentional I suppose so that packages don't get left out when maintainers disappear ?
<tuxmaniac> Am I right master bddebian
<tuxmaniac> IMO yes neutrinomass ! For instance the maintainer of xcircuit has disappeared orphaning the package in Debian which means blah blah bah
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Afaik yes.  Might be different for main packages, I don't know. :-)
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: have you seen carthik around for sometime? His bug report on xcircuit needs to be changed to fix released :D
<tuxmaniac> bug 42976
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42976 in xcircuit "Xcircuit menus don't work. " [Normal,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42976
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: So fix it :)
<tuxmaniac> :)
<neutrinomass> Um... what should be done wrt to the .desktop file with programs that have icons in .xbm format, which doesn't get shown in the menus? e.g. tkgate
<tuxmaniac> another EDA tool..
* tuxmaniac loves neutrinomass !!
<Spec> what's EDA?
<neutrinomass> lol tuxmaniac. I'll deserve you're love if I port them to gtk2 so they won't look butt-ugly :-P
<neutrinomass> Electronic Design Automation
<Spec> neutrinomass: I suppose you should translate .xbm to .xpm?
<neutrinomass> Spec: Is that the correct way to deal with it, or should a bug be filed against the menu-creation-thing to support .xbm files too ?
<tuxmaniac> I would appreciate that act neutrinomass
<tuxmaniac> :)
<neutrinomass> Unless .xbm and .xpm are the same thing with different extensions, which I doubt :S
<Spec> neutrinomass: hehe, good question....
<Spec> neutrinomass: what does menu-creation-thing support anyways, other than xpm?
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Heh, I think I'll stick to .desktops. Nobody uses EDAs anyway ! :P
<neutrinomass> Spec: AFAIK .gif .svg .png and I suppose .jpg .ico
* tuxmaniac warns neutrinomass 
<Spec> hah
* tuxmaniac does not like anybody commenting on EDA tools on GNU/Linux!
<Spec> I don't know what Electronic Design Automation is, still
<Spec> at least i know what EDA stands for ^.^
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: You know I'm right ;) That's why they are all dead upstream. Everybody uses ICs anyway so they don't really to design stuff :-P
<neutrinomass> s/really/really need
<tuxmaniac> iverilog / geda are not dead upstream!
<tuxmaniac> iverilog every week a release is happening!
<tuxmaniac> And do you know the importance of EDA tools?
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I was joking actually but you proved my point anyway! There are so many EDA tools and you just mentioned 2 that are still alive.
<tuxmaniac> You wont be seeing what I am typing without one
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I was kidding, relax :)
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: That was just a example!! pcb just released a multilayered pcb layout capability!!
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I promise you that if I learn to design stuff, I'll design them using Linux EDA tools !
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Heh..
<tuxmaniac> GNU/Linux EDA tools are not up there according to the industry standards.. but are catching up!
<neutrinomass> ...using tk ?
* neutrinomass ducks
<Spec> neutrinomass: you've been sending .desktop files to debian's BTS via e-mail?
* tuxmaniac throws what all he can at neutrinomass 
<neutrinomass> Spec: Yes, it's not that annoying after all.
<Spec> you mean...PCB designs?
* tuxmaniac running straight at neutrinomass to have a head on collision
<Spec> i've looked into some programs designed for PCBs, they all sucked on linux :-/
* neutrinomass didn't say anything, spec said it all
<Spec> it was a while ago, maybe they've improved a little :)
<Spec> but seriously, i felt like i was drawing with a sharpie on a PCB
<tuxmaniac> Spec: thats better.. why dont you contribute by making it better rather than just whine abt it :D
<tuxmaniac> Spec: I agree to it
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: You're an electronic engineer then ?
<Spec> tuxmaniac: because i don't design circuits every day :p
<Spec> in fact, i've yet to make a PCB
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: yes  :) Hardcore.. Professionaly an Embedded System Software developer
<Spec> tuxmaniac: you can make PCBs?
<tuxmaniac> working for a Car Multimedia Systems German firm
<tuxmaniac> yes
<Spec> wanna make me one?
<tuxmaniac> Spec: ^
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: From the very little that I've seen of them, the main problem is that they all look awful.
<Spec> i don't have the equipment needed to solder the chip I need soldered :p
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: hmmm
<tuxmaniac> Spec: heh
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Being nowhere close to an electronic engineer though, my opinion is not to be taken seriously :)
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Dont bother.. It was nice to have some mini fight after a long time!!
<Spec> tinfoil hat linux, hah! :p
<neutrinomass> Spec:  Seems that .xbm is not the same with .xpm after all. Renaming the icon didn't work :) Do you know what is responsible for creating the menus ?
<Spec> nope ^.^
<bddebian> .xpm is the icon file
<Spec> what is xbm?
<Spec> x bitmap
<imbrandon_> xbm?
<bddebian> Make sure that the .desktop is in /usr/share/applications/
<neutrinomass> bddebian: tkgate's icon is .xbm format which doesn't show up in the menu
<tuxmaniac> its X Bitmap
* tuxmaniac googled :P
<imbrandon_> morning Spec bddebian and others ;)
<bddebian> neutrinomass: Is the Icon= path hardcoded?
<neutrinomass> bddebian: The Icon doesn't show, the entry shows.
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon_
* tuxmaniac is angry with imbrandon_ for missing out his name.. But he wishes morning to imbrandon_ 
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Yes, because tkgate puts the icon in /usr/share/tkgate/bitmaps, and names it "smalllogo.xbm"
<imbrandon_> heya tux ;)
<imbrandon_> just wopke up gimme some slack ;)
<imbrandon_> woke*
<tuxmaniac> imbrandon_: Thats better!
<Spec> tuxmaniac: any chance you know anything about A/D converters?
<bddebian> neutrinomass: Is the file actually there? ;-)
<tuxmaniac> Spec: I work on them day in and day out!
<Spec> tuxmaniac: I need a Notes on AD converter selection: pick out a 1 channel, 8 bit converter with an insanely high number of samples per second. 1 GSPS
<Spec> *did not just copy/pate what he needed because he's lazy*
<Spec> i actually have two, but they aren't solderable DIPs
<Spec> it's like a quarter-inch square with 40 pins, way too small
<tuxmaniac> Spec: What board is that?
<Spec> dunno, let me see if i can find the chip i have
<neutrinomass> bddebian: lol yes, but apparently the whatever-creates-menus doesn't show .xbm files (although they even show in nautilus preview)
<Spec> wow, it's gonna be hard to find an 8-bit 1GSPS ad converter :p
<tuxmaniac> maxim has one I guess!
<tuxmaniac> Let me google
<tuxmaniac> wait
<bddebian> neutrinomass: OK
<tuxmaniac> Spec: MAX104
<Spec> I got two at analog.com
<Spec> but i can't find 'em, and i don't have them with me (@work)
<Spec> damn
<Spec> awesome
<Spec> so If I hand you a schematic and mail you that chip, you tryin' to solder it? *innocent*
* tuxmaniac stunned
<Spec> pfft, i can't do it :)
<tuxmaniac> You need to have SMD Kit to do high fundoo soldering
<tuxmaniac> specially soldering those kinda boards
<tuxmaniac> But I have a company!! Do the soldering for free for you :P
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Do you know what is responsible for creating the menus? (to file a wishlist bug against it )
<Spec> high fundoo?
<bddebian> neutrinomass: I believe it's nautilus but I'm not sure
<tuxmaniac> http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2026
<tuxmaniac> Spec: ^^
<tuxmaniac> Spec: High fundoo in desi terms means hi fi or something sooper!
<Spec> what does a package: 192/ESBGA-25x25 look like?
<Spec> I think I recall mine being QFP or something
<tuxmaniac> No idea
<tuxmaniac> anybody here uses netowrk manager?
<iegary> tuxmaniac: I've been trying out a bit recently, at home.
<iegary> trying it out
<tuxmaniac> hmm ok
<bddebian> Can Hobbsee upload?
<crimsun> bddebian: not afaik
<imbrandon_> bddebian, not that i know of
<bddebian> OK, thx
<bddebian> Hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi bddebian
<imbrandon_> heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya imbrandon_
<Spec> neutrinomass: do you attatch the .desktop file or just put it in the body of the e-mail?
<imbrandon_> bddebian / crimsun , either one of you guys got something an aspiring motu can work on today ( besides dh_iconcache ) btw bddebian if you wanna upload a small one i got one diff left on my hdd ( http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/temp/ )
<dholbach> imbrandon_: look at the topic
<dholbach> imbrandon_: we have some quite other to work on
<hub> hi
<dholbach> and if somebody'd update the list of unmetdeps I certainly wouldn't mind
<dholbach> or rather file new bugs
<imbrandon_> kk dholbach i'll take a look ;) thanks
<neutrinomass> Spec: I attach it, but I don't know if I should be doing so. Nobody from debian has responded.
<dholbach> imbrandon_: rock on
<Spec> neutrinomass: why are there two desktop files for every package?
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile has the script for doing massfiling of bugs
<neutrinomass> Spec: There are ?
<dholbach> enjoy
<bddebian> imbrandon_: Yeah the libmysqlclient crap :-)
<Spec> err, /usr/share/app-install/desktop and /usr/share/applications/desktop
<bddebian> imbrandon_: You can look at kbanking if you want.  I have rebuilt it twice now and it still tries to depend on libkbanking1 (=0.9.9-1) or some such :-(
<imbrandon_> k
<bddebian> Spec: Shouldn't be
<Spec> hmm, the actual package only has a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications/
<tuxmaniac> Anybody  knows how to start networkmanager on Dapper! Seems like it is not coming up at all!
<imbrandon_> bddebian, you see the one and only lonely diff i had in that dir ?
<neutrinomass> Spec: I'm not sure what the /usr/share/app-install thing is for. It includes .desktops even for packages that you haven't installed IIRC. But I know that if you copy the deskto pin /usr/share/applications, it works ;)
<bddebian> imbrandon_: ??
<imbrandon_> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/temp/  <--- last of my dh_iconcache uploads
<imbrandon_> one left to do
<bddebian> imbrandon_: Ah, OK
<neutrinomass> Spec: Just one tip when filing bugs with Debian. It should be "Package: blah", not "Package : blah" (notice the whitespace)
<bddebian> I think the app-install used to be where KDE expected them???
<Spec> yeap
<Spec> to neutrinomass, dunno to bddebian
<Spec> should Icon= be relative or hard?
<iegary> tuxmaniac: it's started by dbus - so /etc/init.d/dbus restart should help
<neutrinomass> Spec: There is no definite view on it. It's a good idea to leave it relative, and without the extension. e.g. if the icon is /usr/share/pixmaps/spec.png, then Icon="spec" (yes, without the extension) is fine, since it shows.
<neutrinomass> Spec: AFAIK the freedesktop.org specification does not specify this. What I do is use just "spec", unless the icon is in a non-standard location in which case I have to use the absolute filename.
<neutrinomass> Spec: for hints on how to do .desktops take a look at the .desktops I've done. I'm doing thing wrong usually and Phil Bull keeps giving me rather useful advice.
<sits> dholbach: are you there?
<dholbach> sits: you could say that - hello!
<dholbach> how can I help you?
<sits> dholbach: could you take another look at http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=342236
<sits> please?
<Ubugtu> Gnome bug 342236 in Mailer "Dropdown from collapsed evolution toolbar is not displayed" [Minor,Unconfirmed] 
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> sits: ok, looked at.
<Toadstool> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi Toadstool
<dholbach> sits: ok
<dholbach> sits: what do you want me to do now?
<Spec> How do I make the menu-system refresh itself?
<sits> dholbach: does using my improved steps make it any more reproducible?
<sits> oh hang on
<sits> wrong bug
<hub> heya
<dholbach> hey hub
<sits> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/45007
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45007 in totem "Segfault thumbnailing PNG image .mov" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<sits> there we go
<imbrandon_> heya hub
<sits> dholbach: sorry about that
<dholbach> dont worry
<neutrinomass> sits: I think I can confirm that issue...
<sits> neutrinomass: thanks to the improved steps?
<dholbach> sits: it might make sense to get a backtrace with the gstreamer dbg packages installed
<hub> what's up in the universe?
<neutrinomass> sits: Nope, just saw your steps. I'll go through them though...
<neutrinomass> sits: Confirmed. I saw a seg fault after 10-15 terminated
<sits> yeah
<neutrinomass> sits: On the 13th actually ...
<sits> it's abit erratic
<dholbach> f you could get a backtrace with the gstreamer dbg packages - that'd help
<dholbach> hub: major last minute fixing is going on :)
<dholbach> hub: I added some stuff to the topic, but there's much more
<hub> sorry I haven't been of much help lately
<hub> busy with too much things
* dholbach hugs hub
<dholbach> I think hwe all understand
* bddebian doesn't
<dholbach> bddebian: pffft
* bddebian breaks out the whip ;-P
<neutrinomass> sits: Should I get the backtrace or will you do so ?
<Laser_away> bddebian: that's my job ;-)
<bddebian> Laser_away: :-)
<tseng> dholbach: is there anything cool in 2.15?
<sits> neutrinomass: I've just about got one
<sits> having resorted to gdb
<tseng> dholbach: oh, there is the changes
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hi
<dholbach> tseng: 2.15 what?
<tseng> dholbach: GNOME!
<Spec> Is debian's menu system different than Ubuntu's?
<tseng> but i found it
<tseng> Spec: we dont really use it
<tseng> its available
<dholbach> tseng: man I wish I had the time to look into that stuff
<tseng> most Debian users don't use it either I bet, its old
<Laser_away> Spec: yes, much different. Debian doesn't use .desktops for its menu
<tseng> we have a sane freedesktop menu now
<Spec> the package gsnes9x has a .desktop file in /usr/share/gnome/apps/Games/gsnes9x.desktop
<tseng> ok?
<Spec> it doesn't show up in the menu system for Ubuntu, who do I file a bug with?
<bddebian> imbrandon: Uploaded
<Spec> upstream or LP?
<bddebian> Spec: Ideally both.
<tseng> it should be /usr/share/applications
<tseng> iirc
<Spec> yeap
<sits> neutrinomass: you're good for the confirm though
<tseng> since a year or so ago
<neutrinomass> sits: Ok, I'll set it to confirmed and drop a note as well.
<sits> neutrinomass: I wish I'd know you were going to file a backtrace though. It would have saved aptitiude deciding to pull up my firefox lang packs
<sits> neutrinomass: thanks
<sits> right that's enough bug triage for the day
<imbrandon> thanks bddebian
<bddebian> no, thank YOU :-)
* imbrandon does rm -rf /www/temp
<imbrandon> ;0
<imbrandon> one of these days i'll get some more under my belt and apply to be a motu ;) maybe by the end of this summer
<bddebian> Great
<imbrandon> thats what i'm working twords atleaste ;)
<bddebian> Maybe I'll shoot for main by end of summer ;-P
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> dumb question but is there a way for me to tell ubuntu to ignore a certain pci slot on boot ? ( reason i ask is breezy live and normal install boots fine in this particular computer but dapper dosent , hangs on boot or live cd bootup with this pci card installed , if i pull the card dapper boots fine so I know its the card , basicly i just want dapper to ignor it like breezy did )
<imbrandon> and no i cant remove the card perminately ( its needed in windows via dual boot )
<neutrinomass> Spec: I just got a response to a Debian bug about .desktop files and they told me that "Debian does not use .desktop files.  Such files are generated automatically only if needed."
<Spec> eh
<Spec> really?
<Spec> well, good thing we cross-filed our bugs onto LP
<Spec> :)
<Spec> and by 'we', i meant I did with my three bugs :p
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: right, and we are saying they are needed :-)
<neutrinomass> Spec: Yeah. I'll get beaten for this I fear because I've opened ~10 reports at debian about .desktop files
<Spec> I've only done 3 :)
<Spec> well, they wouldn't get bug reports if they included .desktop files, now would they? :)
<neutrinomass> Spec: Lol yeah, I'll write to tell them just taht .
<Spec> what's the worse that can happen? :p
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: I think it is a legitimate bug, don't worry too much if a few DDs don't like it
<Spec> well....some debian packages come with .desktop files
<Laser_away> we might have to send .desktop files to the software authors if Debian refuses
<Spec> will upstream care?
<neutrinomass> Laser_away: I'm doing just that anyway. If upstream is alive I send it upstream. At least this DD was good. Apparently there was some bug in some other menu-creation thing to which I drew his attention (I didn't understand how) and at least he thanked me for that.
<Spec> we need an insider DD to create .desktop files for us.
<neutrinomass> Spec: They care. I got told off again today by upstream. I told them "it's an absolute path because you're putting your icon in /usr/lib. Although I am not sure about this, according to the FHS you should probably be putting arch-independant stuff in /usr/share".
<Spec> FHS?
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: icons should go in /usr/share/pixmaps
<neutrinomass> Spec: Fileystem Hierarchy Standard
<Laser_away> Spec: I don't think an inside person would help
<Spec> ah
<neutrinomass> Laser_away: Well not according to Openstep/Coca, whatever that is. And "not all the world conforms to the FHS".
<Laser_away> basically because Debian has their own menu system they really don't care about fd.org
<Spec> which menu system is 'better'?
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: all I know is that is were icons generally go
<Laser_away> Spec: fd.org of course ;-)
<Laser_away> it is what Gnome, KDE, and other WMs use
<neutrinomass> Laser_away: Anyway. I was particularly annoyed with this dev so I'm just ranting about now. So we should not send .desktops to debian after all ?
<Spec> so, if a DD e-mails me about .desktop files, I'll just reply fd.org is better than you. bow down.
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: no, continue to send them
<Laser_away> Spec: sure
<Laser_away> ;-)
<Spec> hehe
<Laser_away> no, I think it would be appropriate to say the .desktop files are a freedesktop.org standard and are used by the Gnome and KDE menus
<Laser_away> if they don't want to do it fine, we either get the authors to do it or we do it ourselves
<neutrinomass> Laser_away: OK. Should I respond to this DD that told me just now that "debian doesn't use .desktops" ?
<imbrandon> neutrinomass, i would respond to it in that kde/gnome use them not debian
<imbrandon> thats me personaly
<neutrinomass> Laser_away: Or just comment on LP that "Debian rejected the .desktop because they don't like .desktops" ?
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: it's up to you, you could mention that Gnome and KDE do use them even if the Debian menu does not
* neutrinomass will take a glance at the debian policy first to see if there's anything relevant there
<Laser_away> neutrinomass: what is the Debian bug # ?
<neutrinomass> nothing there...
<neutrinomass> it's debian bug #367821
<Spec> Debian's BTS is slow
<Laser_away> heh, tell me about it
<Spec> and ugly :p
<Spec> LP is superior, even if it's confusing and complex and a little buggy at first :p
<hub> I have a cmake update on REVU
<hub> I'd like to have it for edgy, so that people can build KDE4 on Ubuntu :-)
<Laser_away> Spec: they each have the strengths and weaknesses for sure
* imbrandon thanks hub ;)
<crimsun> hub: Edgy won't be a prob for it :-)
<crimsun> prob->problem
<hub> crimsun: but it needs review :-)
<crimsun> cf. June 8th
<hub> yeah
<hub> are you all gonna be in paris?
<crimsun> I won't, as work has me committed here
<hub> neither can I, unfortunately
<hub> 'cause I would be able to have free bedroom at my mom
<crimsun> :-)
<hub> i'm not even sure for guadec
<LaserJock> hub: I'm going
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty!
<Spec> heya
<sistpoty> bddebian: strange thing, seems like you and me uploaded the same package (htcheck) and *both* seem to have gotten accepted
<ogra> sistpoty, yep, there is a LP bug open about that since some time
<sistpoty> ogra: k, thx... then I won't bother guys in #lp with it ;)
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> sistpoty: Nice
<sistpoty> :)
* sistpoty is off again
<sistpoty> cya
<dholbach> night fellas
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
<dholbach> night LaserJock
<LaserJock> dholbach: get all rested up so we can bug you more when you come back :-)
<bddebian> hehe
<dholbach> I'll try to :)
<bddebian> Later folks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-24
<LaserJock> hmm, kinda quite, everybody must be taking Friday off ;-)
<ajmitch> nah
* ajmitch is awake, honest
<LaserJock> are you sure?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> got to sleep after 6AM
<ajmitch> 11AM now ;)
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> not cool
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<TheMuso> Hey bddebian.
<bddebian> Hello TheMuso
<bddebian> Night folks
<tritium> Good nigth, bddebian
<tritium> night even
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> hi raphink and tritium
<tritium> Hi LaserJock
<raphink> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> tritium: so why can you only use RHEL?
<tritium> LaserJock: it's just policy, based on our computer security group
<tritium> There is no such thing as choice
<crimsun> yeah, I know that all too well given our closeness in lines of policy
<crimsun> very soon my Ubuntu time will be severely curtailed by no will of my own  :(
<tritium> crimsun: :(
<LaserJock> crimsun: at the uni?
<crimsun> LaserJock: project work involving federal organisation
<tritium> I think most .govs are RH-based
<crimsun> yeah
<crimsun> most use RHEL or RHAS from what I've gleaned
<tritium> yep
<LaserJock> weird, I'd expect it would be Windows only or you would have a choice
<tritium> LaserJock: they're too concerned about security to allow choice, or cell phones, or ipods, and on and on...
<LaserJock> tritium: well, I can understand at your place of work ;-)
<LaserJock> but maybe crimsun is working for some super duper, top secret, agency too
<crimsun> tritium: right, same boat
<crimsun> no recording devices period, papers are confiscated, etc., etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what sort of puts me off from gov labs. It seems like a big hassle, even if it was necessary.
<crimsun> it wasn't too bad at argonne when I was there in 2001
<crimsun> granted that was pre-9/11
<tritium> It gets old, that's for sure
<LaserJock> yeah, I visited Sandia in Livermore, CA in about 2002-2003. it was fairly tight and it was tighter if you crossed the street to LLNL
<tritium> yup
<LaserJock> but I talked to a guy there a couple weeks ago and he said that it has gotten back to about the pre-9/11 hassle
<LaserJock> but that is at the DOE Combustion Research Facility, nothing to top secret about it :-)
<terrence> will dapper feature an easily enableable xgl?
<terrence> something like a... checkbox?
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> feel free to suggest it in #easyubuntu, though
<terrence> crimsun: i guess this is bad for ubuntu, as suse has it.
<crimsun> terrence: well that's great for suse :-)
<terrence> crimsun: but is it still enough time for me to suggest that?
<crimsun> terrence: in #easyubuntu, sure
<terrence> crimsun: as for and non-easyubuntu'ed dapper, is there much more to do than simply apt-get *xgl*?
<crimsun> yes, a couple more steps iirc
<crimsun> #ubuntu-xgl is probably more useful
<terrence> crimsun: oh, right, thanks
<TheMuso> c/c
<MrFaber> hi all
<MrFaber> Who is the Motu of the day? :)
<MrFaber> loop-aes is still waiting for a fix :)
<Hobbsee> hi MrFaber
<MrFaber> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> is there a patch for it?
<MrFaber> Hobbsee: theoretically
<MrFaber> Hobbsee: new debian version works fine
<MrFaber> old debian version too :)
<MrFaber> 3.1c works fine
<Hobbsee> *looks for appropriate wiki page*
<Hobbsee> is it in main, or universe?
<MrFaber> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<MrFaber> universe
<Hobbsee> MrFaber: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources#freezes
<MrFaber> I know maybe only a fix could be extracted but I have no clue.
* Hobbsee is not a motu
<MrFaber> :)
<MrFaber> I think that it is not a big deal to update it but the procedure seems very complicated.
<MrFaber> But at least it is confirmed
<MrFaber> this is the complicated one "attach diffstat, changelog and build-/install-log (as files)"
<Hobbsee> if you're requesting a sync, you dont need that.   you just need to check that the debian version on ubuntu doesnt need any changes, and that the patches to the ubuntu version (if any) arent needed
<Hobbsee> i think.
<MrFaber> Hobbsee: it doesn't need any patches afaik
<MrFaber> at least it works for me
<MrFaber> and loop-aes hasn't much reverse dependencies afaik
<MrFaber> And afaik loop-aes-utils haven't to be updated but I am no expert
<Hobbsee>  bug 28628
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28628 in gnome-phone-manager "Custom Widget Failed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28628
<MrFaber> bbl
<__Halo__> Hi All,  I am new here
<Toadstool> hey all
<neutrinomass> Um.. I just received a mail from a DD with regard to a .desktop file . He said that if I want a .desktop file to be generated, I should install the 'menu' package ...
<kgoetz> neutrinomass: hm?
<neutrinomass> kgoetz: Apparently the menu package is capable of creating .desktops from debian menus ... I'm looking into this now ...
<kgoetz> not that i knew of, but o...k.. then :|
<bibe> hi all. What's the smartest way to get the ubuntu kernel patches that introduced r1000, ieee80211 (v.1.1.13) and ipw3945 into the Ubuntu stock kernel?
<kgoetz> bibe probably files a bug report
<kgoetz> hm.
<kgoetz> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi kgoetz
<kgoetz> :) hows it goin
<bddebian> OK, thanks.  You?
<kgoetz> increadably average actualy. one of those days :/
<bddebian> kgoetz: Heh, I know that feeling :-)
<kgoetz> bugger :)
<LaserJock> ack, my grub foo seems to have disappered after not using Gentoo for a while :/
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how to get grub to default to XP
<crimsun> change the default # in /boot/grub/menu.lst
<crimsun> for instance, in mine, it'd be "default 5"
<crimsun> (you should have a comment in /boot/grub/menu.lst immediately preceding the default parameter nonetheless...)
<LaserJock> yeah, but if the Ubuntu items are first then added or removing the kernels will change the number
<LaserJock> so I need to put the Windows item first
<LaserJock> can I just put it before the automagic Ubuntu section?
<LaserJock> I'll try that and see if it works
<crimsun> yes, you can.
<dAndy> anyone have advice for how to test my preseeding? When I do it on the install, I cant see what is happening, a way to do it on the command line in a running system would be nifty
<bddebian> We don't need a UVF exception for a bugfix release update do we?
<LaserJock> if it is new upstream, yes we do
<bddebian> ??
<LaserJock> you need a UVFe for any new upstream release
<bddebian>  mysql-navigator 1.4.2-6 to 1.4.2-7
<bddebian> You are on crack :-)
<LaserJock> upstream upstream
<LaserJock> new Debian version doesn't fall under UVF
<bddebian> Bah :-)
* bddebian considers just bringing it over rather than hassling main for a sync
<crimsun> Amaranth: (delayed) pong
<Amaranth> crimsun: hehe
<Amaranth> was hoping you could help me with a sound problem :)
<crimsun> still need assistance? I have a few minutes (~10) before my next meeting
<Amaranth> I've got some Intel ICH7 HD Audio thing, it gets much louder in Windows
<Amaranth> and people are saying they have "Front" and such for volume control, I only have Master and PCM
<crimsun> ok. 1) Are you running -23-? 2) What's the output from ``tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat''?
<Amaranth> yeah, -23
<Amaranth> Mixers:
<Amaranth> 0: Generic 14f1 ID 5047
<crimsun> holy mother of Very Strange Fruit.
<Amaranth> haha
<crimsun> ok. Pastebin ``lspci -nv'', please.
<Amaranth> 0000:00:1b.0 0403: Intel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio Controller (rev 01)
<Amaranth> ok
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/PmZRbA75.html
<crimsun> ok. Sec.
<crimsun> is this an HP laptop?
<Amaranth> yep
<Amaranth> HP Pavilion dv8000t
<crimsun> which model?
<jpatrick> ^
<Amaranth> latest and greatest, i knew i'd be in trouble :P
<crimsun> sheesh, well that leaves things wide open.
<Amaranth> wasn't as bad as i thought though, this is actually the only problem i've having with it
<Amaranth> yeah, no one seems to have any info about this
* crimsun thinks. That probably means an AD codec given the stepping of the subdevice.
<Amaranth> supposedly fedora core 5 has better support for it though
<crimsun> I'm fairly certain that's an unidentified AD codec
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> to be honest i'm surprised i have sound at all
<crimsun> try unloading snd_hda_codec and then passing model=basic to modprobe
<crimsun> (``sudo modprobe -r snd_hda_codec && sudo modprobe snd_hda_codec model=basic'')
<Amaranth> says it's in use
<Amaranth> i guess i should logout and drop to a tty for that
<crimsun> yeah, you'll have to kill whatever's got a handle open. ``lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*''
<crimsun> or drop to a console, right
<Amaranth> arg, wtf
<Amaranth> dropping to console, killing things in that list didn't help
<Amaranth> crimsun: nothing i do lets me remove it
<Amaranth> i could get into a tty thanks to nvidia, rebooting with the nv driver, nothing works
<crimsun> Amaranth: and there's no relevant output from ``lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*''?
<Amaranth> can i add something to /etc/modules to add that option?
<Amaranth> no
<crimsun> interesting.
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> wtf@me
<crimsun> (``sudo modprobe -r snd_hda_intel && sudo modprobe snd_hda_intel model=basic'')
<Amaranth> even with gdm not running at all it won't remove
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> that did something
<crimsun> sorry, I'm so used to typing "codec" today.
<Amaranth> and i got a notification popup
<crimsun> The driver is actually snd-hda-intel; snd-hda-codec is a prereq
<crimsun> ok, now check ``amixer'' output.
<crimsun> It should be different from your previous
<Amaranth> still just master, pcm
<crimsun> ok. Does adjusting them make any difference wrt the relative attenuation?
<crimsun> (btw, the HDA codecs are fairly inconsistent. Some use 'Front'; some use 'PCM'; some use 'Headphone')
<Amaranth> it turns up and down, if that's what you mean
<Amaranth> but it doesn't seem any louder
<Amaranth> yeah, still quieter than windows
<Amaranth> i have the perfect test song :P
<crimsun> ok. Unload it, and try model=hp
<crimsun> (given your subvendor, model=hp /should/ be the default)
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> that tool awhile
<Amaranth> and brought the sound back turned down
<crimsun> same mixer elements, and same attenuation?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> and no sound
<Amaranth> i'm not getting any sound now :P
<crimsun> none at all?
<Amaranth> nope
<crimsun> what's the output from ``amixer''?
<Amaranth> everything is 100%
<crimsun> yow, maybe you /do/ need basic.
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> makes it hard to watch a movie :P
<Amaranth> what other models are there?
<crimsun> thinkpad
<Amaranth> is there a list somewhere i can run through?
<crimsun> yeah, let me populate a list for you
<Amaranth> any possible options for anything would be nice, i'll poke at them all :P
<Amaranth> thinkpad is no sound either
<crimsun> I'm not terribly optimistic about 5stack, thinkpad, laptop, or laptop-eapd, but try them.
<crimsun> (out of that list, probably the last has the highest probability of Doing Something)
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> laptop-eapd is the only one that gives me sound
<crimsun> arauggh.
<Amaranth> doesn't really sound louder
<crimsun> it will have to be fixed upstream, then
<Amaranth> anyway to say "this one goes to 11"? ;)
<crimsun> (if in fact it's not a hardware errata that can't be worked around in firmware, etc.)
<crimsun> not without hacking the source
<Amaranth> sounds tempting :)
<Amaranth> maybe it's fixed in a newer upstream release
<Amaranth> or does -23 have the latest stuff?
<crimsun> for hda? I backported just about everything from 1.0.11
<crimsun> realtek is literally everything from 1.0.11
<crimsun> the other codecs lack a few sub{vendor,device} ids
<crimsun> if you're adventurous, pull from alsa-driver and alsa-kernel hg
<Amaranth> hg?
<crimsun> mercurial is the vcs upstream uses now
<Amaranth> arg
<Amaranth> yet another weird source control system
<crimsun> there are instructions following the Download link from ALSA's home page.
<crimsun> yeah, but it uses Python :-)
<crimsun> ok, I really need to run, already late for a[n option, granted]  meeting
<Amaranth> thanks
<Amaranth> bye
<Amaranth> crimsun: latest from hg is the same :/
<Amaranth> oh well
<Amaranth> gets loud enough with headphone
<LaserJock> hmm, I didn't think the MOTU had the day off ;-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-25
<Thomas_J> Okay.. So I'm midly confused... What exatly is the MOTU... ive read the page but is it a development area for the just the Universe or for Ubuntu as a whole?
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: it is specifically for Universe and Multivers but often people who want to work on Main come through here too
<Thomas_J> cool... So where do I start... lol
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: do you know anything about Debian-based packaging?
<Thomas_J> Honestly.. No but I want to learn...
<LaserJock> great, then you are in the right place ;-)
<Thomas_J> I kinda hoed so...
<Thomas_J> hoped*
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: are you running Dapper?
<Thomas_J> By no I mean I know what it is and ho it works ut actually making packages Im out of...
<Thomas_J> And I'm DLing that latest Flight now..
<Thomas_J> the*
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: ok, well Dapper actually comes with a packaging guide that some MOTUs and I put together
<Thomas_J> Cool
<Thomas_J> Dams Invincible ad Its dumb formatting...
<Thomas_J> Damn*
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: so when you install it you can go into System->Help->System Documentation or something like that
<Thomas_J> kk
<Thomas_J> Hey... On the topic of the Flights.. when is 8 due out?
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: in the mean time it is also at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<LaserJock> there isn't going to be an 8
<Thomas_J> oh...
<Thomas_J> Why is it listed in the Developer page?
<LaserJock> becuase it was canceled and nobody updated the page
<LaserJock> :-)
<Thomas_J> Laughing Out Loud oh...
<Thomas_J> <DAMN INVINCIBLE>
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: ok, I'd read that guide and also perhaps http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<Thomas_J> okay... I shall..
<LaserJock> you can poke around the wiki pages too. Lots of links on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<LaserJock> and people are pretty friendly here so have fun, read lots, and ask questions when you need to
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> Thomas_J: and do whatever ajmitch says because he knows what he is doing ;-)
<ajmitch> sigh
<LaserJock> hehe
<Thomas_J> LaserJock: kk...
<Thomas_J> LOL someone just update the Ubuntu Test Flight 8 page...
<Thomas_J> Well here goes test flight 7
<welshbyte> hm why on earth does nvidia-glx conflict with nvidia-settings despite nvidia-settings recommending nvidia-glx
<LaserJock> welshbyte: did you check the changelogs?
<welshbyte> not yet, just thinking out loud
<StevenK> welshbyte: In Dapper?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi LaserJock
<welshbyte> StevenK: yep, i just installed it on my new AMD64 box
<zul> hey
<Toadstool> good night all
<Hobbsee> night ToadZzZztool
<Hobbsee> hi all
<zul> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<bddebian> Heya zul
<Hobbsee_away> hi bddebian :P
<crimsun> (no jumping ;-)
<Hobbsee_away> hi crimsun
* Hobbsee_away looks around for anyone about to jump
<Hobbsee_away> hmmm...so i see...this is odd...
<crimsun> 'lo Hobbsee_away
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee_away
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> 'lo bddebian
<Toadstool> hi here
<RemyLaptop> hey guys, how do you get something added in to the repositories?  I'd love teamspeak to be in there :)  http://www.goteamspeak.com/index.php?page=downloads
<\sh> teamspeak is like skype
<RemyLaptop> hm, kinda but not really
<\sh> free, as in free beer, but not OSS
<RemyLaptop> ahk
<RemyLaptop> bugga
<\sh> and I doubt that the distribution license will be changed for teamspeak
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<RemyLaptop> k, thanks :)
<\sh> hey ajmitch
<\sh> actually teamspeak was somewhat broken on linux the last time I tried it
<ajmitch> looks like it can't be distributed
<\sh> ajmitch: it can't :)
<neutrinomass> Why isn't Ubuntu using Debian menus ? Additionally, why don't we just create the .desktop files from the Debian menu files and go into the trouble of writing them from scratch ?
<RemyLaptop> \sh - what do you mean by broken ?
<\sh> it didn't work
<RemyLaptop> hmk
<RemyLaptop> cause atm it's working except that other's can't hear me...
<\sh> yes that's one of the reasons :)
<RemyLaptop> doh
<\sh> skype is working
<RemyLaptop> skype works fine for me...
<RemyLaptop> so it's kinda wierd
<\sh> well, teamspeak is only for people who are gaming a lot...so it's nothing to be bothered (at least for me :))
<phanatic> hi people
<neutrinomass> Bug #2451 has been fixed in debian. Could it be please fixed in Ubuntu as well ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2451 in giftui "Seg fault" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2451
<ivoks> let see...
<ajmitch> 2451, must be quite an old bug
<ivoks> neutrinomass: did you test it?
<ivoks> ajmitch: yes, from breezy :)
<StevenK> neutrinomass: Not in Breezy.
<ajmitch> the debian bug report says it's fixed in 0.4.1-7, we have -6 in dapper
<neutrinomass> ivoks: No, but from the Debian changelog : * Fix major bug, giftui should start now (Closes: #350519) <-- that's the only changed
<ajmitch> so it looks worthy of a sync request
<neutrinomass> I'm talking about Dapper, not breezy.
<ivoks> ajmitch: sync is all that's needed
<ajmitch> ivoks: as I said :)
<ivoks> ajmitch: yup, i was watching my keyboard while typing :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<StevenK> Who wants to request the sync?
<ivoks> neutrinomass: we still need to test it
<ivoks> StevenK: i'll do it
<ivoks> neutrinomass: you'll be here in couple of minutes, right?
<neutrinomass> ivoks: OK. Let me grab the debian package ...
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Yes, just ping me.
<ivoks> neutrinomass: no need, i'll made a ubuntu package, so you can test it
<neutrinomass> ivoks: OK, thanks a lot :)
<StevenK> Hah.
<StevenK> "Geelong scored 44, and Collingwood have beaten them by 102 points."
<StevenK> Another announcer scoffs and says, "Well, crap. There's my tips gone."
<ajmitch> heh
<ivoks> neutrinomass: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/giftui_0.4.1-7_i386.deb
<neutrinomass> Thanks.
<ivoks> does it work?
<neutrinomass> just a moment ..
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Yep :)
<ivoks> ok
<neutrinomass> ivoks: At least it starts that is. I'm getting some critical GTK/GDK errors on the console but nevertheless, it starts.
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Failed assertations mostly, null pointers here and there but nothing crashes.
<ivoks> that's another bug
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Yeah, I thought as much. Felt like you should know though :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<phanatic> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi phanatic
<phanatic> bddebian: if you have some time, could you upload this for me please: bug 45144
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45144 in sysinfo "sysinfo returns garbage when opened without gcc installed" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45144
<bddebian> phanatic: Looking now
<phanatic> thanks
<bddebian> phanatic: Uploading
<phanatic> bddebian: thank you :)
<bddebian> No, thank YOU ;-)
<DarkMageZ> what are the chances of getting dosbox updated to 0.65?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: for dapper?  nil.
<DarkMageZ> job for backports i see
<ajmitch> especially as there's no 0.65 package in debian
<ajmitch> & no critical bugs filed against dosbox urging us to replace it
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: heya
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac
<DarkMageZ> yeah, does backports have a chanel?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: it wont be backported yet...
<Hobbsee> nothing to backport from.
<DarkMageZ> oh, for future reference, lol
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<persia> How big should an icon be?  is 48x48 good?  Is 128x128 desirable?
<\sh> re
<richie> hi
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
<Hobbsee> & richie
<\sh> hey Hobbsee congrats btw :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: thanks....um...what for?
<\sh> kubuntu community council?
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<Hobbsee> i was surprised - i wasnt even at the meeting, and people just started suggesting me!
<\sh> and I didn't even know that there was an election going on :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<richie> i have a little question about bug fixing!
<Hobbsee> was discussed in the last couple of kubuntu meetings
<richie> am i right here?
<Hobbsee> richie: yes, here or #ubuntu+bugs
<richie> ok :-)
<richie> i still wrote a email to the creator of the package "azureus" in dapper universe
<richie> because it seems the maintainier is not realy active
<\sh> hmmm...who is the "creator" of the package in dapper universe?
<richie> and there are two serious bugs
<richie> i have a look
<\sh> Maintainer: Shaun Jackman <sjackman@debian.org>
<\sh> or do you mean the uploader of the changed package in dapper?
<richie> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/azureus/2.4.0.2-0ubuntu2
<richie> no
<\sh> the "creator" was the uploader...maintainer of azureus is shaun and he is more likely debian :)
<richie> but there are no contact information for Shuan Jackman
<\sh> apt-cache show azureus :)
<\sh> what's the bug anyways?
<richie> so https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/42269
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42269 in azureus "Does not create a tray icon" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<richie> and espacialy https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/41813
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41813 in azureus "pop-up dialogs doesn't close." [Normal,Confirmed] 
<richie> yes
<richie> ;-)
<richie> i love azureus
<richie> and i would be greatfull if these bugs are fix in final dapper
<richie> so what shall i do?
<\sh> 41813 is upstream....
<richie> i read on ubuntuusers.de,  that the debian package works great
<\sh> already reported upstream, so it's not likely to be fixed in this package
<richie> without these bugs
<richie> they will be fixed?
<\sh> ok...41813 will unlikely not fixed by us :( it's upstream and it has to do with azureus, stupid java and xorg7
<\sh> 42269 is something which is fun
<richie> jo ;-)
<richie> and what about #42523
<richie> mozilla disturbs me!
<bddebian> Ack, the diff between our azureus 2.4.0.2-0 and Debian 2.4.0.2-1 seems HUGE??
<bddebian> Hi \sh btw :-)
<bddebian> OK, now gotta go play with my daugthers, catch you later folks
<bddebian> Uhm daughters even :-)
<\sh> hey doko..greetings to the debconf6 people :)
<richie> bey
<richie> bye
<richie> ;-)
<richie> i should do may english excercises now
<Hobbsee> hehe
<zul> heylo
<bddebian> Heya zul
<zul> hey bddebian
<tuxmaniac> heya world
<bddebian> Hi tuxmaniac
<bddebian> WTF is this crap in debian/rules??
<bddebian>         # autorun.sh gave links to wrong config.sub and config.guess
<bddebian>         ln -s /usr/share/misc/config.sub
<bddebian>         ln -s /usr/share/misc/config.guess
<bddebian>         ln -s /usr/share/automake-1.7/depcomp
<tuxmaniac> hmmmmmm
<tuxmaniac> wrong symbolic links that isnt present I suppose
<bddebian> No it says ./config.sub file exists.  But WTF is the point of the above??
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: I atlast set up my pbuilder environment on Dapper :)
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: Built all those VLSI and such packages yet? ;-P
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass had demotivated me :P
<bddebian> Why?
<tuxmaniac> He said all EDA tools are crap and no one is using it except me.. Which I fscking want to prove him wrong :D
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: well, if we have rocking packages people are more likely to use them ;-)
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: and make sure they show up on wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists
<tuxmaniac> Well I will modify the existing packages and make it rock!
* tuxmaniac is taking this as a challenge
* tuxmaniac is gonna hack left and right on good EDA tools
<LaserJock> :-)
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Why the hell is Iverilog not there!
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: It does not come with geda in Ubuntu I guess
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: it does in Debian?
<tuxmaniac> I dunno.. But iverilog should be ownlaoded seperately
<tuxmaniac> the package name is verilog
<tuxmaniac> it is one of the best well know verilog compiler, synthesiser
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Am adding it on the wiki
<tuxmaniac> LaserJock: Got the mail? Of my change in the wiki!!! :)
<LaserJock> tuxmaniac: yep
<pianoboy3333> Can someone here help me with packaging a python module (pynotify)? I have used dh_make and (I believe) put the correct files into the debian folder, but dpkg-buildpkg fails.
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: what is it say?
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: ok, lemme get the output, hold on
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: pastebin the output
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: should I build it with `dpkg-buildpkg -rfakeroot' ?
<tuxmaniac> I guess so!
<tuxmaniac> why dont you use debuild?
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: ^^^
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: how?
<pianoboy3333> I was using http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-build.en.html as a guide, and it said to use dpkg-buildpackage
<tuxmaniac> It starts with dpkg-buildpkg and ends with debsign.. No hassles
<pianoboy3333> just run `dbuild' ?
<pianoboy3333> sorry
<pianoboy3333> debuild
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: run debuild from the inside source directory... That is from parent directory of debian
* tuxmaniac asks the Masters here to point out if he is giving wrong suggestion
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: failed: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14344
<tuxmaniac> seems like a build error.. Am not very experienced! bddebian or someone help pianoboy3333 ?
<pianoboy3333> It's weird though, I currently have it installed on my system with checkinstall
<tuxmaniac> No I guess you have not specified some build-dependency.. Its not finding a dep IMO
<pianoboy3333> a dep?
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: I am sure.. Its some dependency problem.. Its giving errors in pynotify.c
<pianoboy3333> Ah, I think something isn't configured correctly, becuase I can build it with checkinstall. Would you like what I have so far? I can zip the whole build directory and chuck it onto my server.
<bddebian> It's a ton of undefined references
<bddebian> Either your are missing something or..
<bddebian> Here is the first error:
<bddebian> .libs/pynotifymodule.o: In function `init_pynotify':/home/alex/Desktop/tobuild-pynotify/notify-python-0.1.0/src/pynotifymodule.c:13: undefined reference to `PyImport_ImportModule'
<pianoboy3333> bddebian: right...?
<bddebian> So is that an error in your program or are you not finding another python module that you are expecting?
<pianoboy3333> bddebian: tuxmaniac: the directory I'm working with can be found at http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.tar.bz2
<tuxmaniac> seems like this pybliographer bug is taking things really down and deep
<pianoboy3333> hmmmm
<tuxmaniac> bug #38708
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 38708 in pybliographer "[Dapper]  Pybliographer doesn't seem to work with UTF-8" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38708
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: ^^^ First the debian unstable repos has 1.2.8 pybliographer
<tuxmaniac> and that needs python-bibtex 1.2.2 but Ubuntu has 1.2.1 :)
<tuxmaniac> pybliographer in dapper is 1.2.6
<pianoboy3333> I'm using dapper :)
<pianoboy3333> So download and install the package pybliographer?
<tuxmaniac> yes..
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: just do a apt-get install pybliographer
<pianoboy3333> yep
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: still failed...
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: what do you mean by still failed?
* tuxmaniac does not rememeber saying anything to pianoboy3333 
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: install pybliograhper and retry?
<tuxmaniac> Ok.. By any chance did you think insalling pybliograper will solve your problem?
<tuxmaniac> :D
<pianoboy3333> no...
<pianoboy3333> Ok, I have to run out I'll be back later.
<nictuku> what is the relation of python-codespeak-lib and python-pylib ?
<nictuku> bug #45787
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45787 in pylib "Package fails to install in dapper" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45787
<tuxmaniac> Hey guys.. Suppose a package A depends on B and B 's old version is only there in Dapper..
<tuxmaniac> I use pbuilder to check package B and then try to build and see package A..
<tuxmaniac> How do i maintain package B still in the build environment
<tuxmaniac> ?
* tuxmaniac knows he has not conveyes properly
<tuxmaniac> :)
<tuxmaniac> Ok.. forget it
<TheBratchet> Hello. I just set up ubuntu on a new machine today. I am not totally new to linux, moderate experience over several years.
<TheBratchet> I found that the version of Firefox I installed is (IMO) horribly out of date.
<TheBratchet> On the basis of "scratching nyour own itches", I would like to do something about htis.
<mynimal> Have you tried Synaptic?
<Mithrandir> TheBratchet: you probably installed 5.10 which ships with firefox 1.0.  6.06 ships with 1.5.0.3.
<TheBratchet> Yes, I did. Is there an easy way to step up to 6.0.6? I just doenloaded the iso image from ubuntu.com.
<mynimal> gksudo "update-manager -d"
<TheBratchet> In progress.
<TheBratchet> But I still woukd like to find some way of contributing, and ISTM that packaging might be a good palce to start?
<Mithrandir> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good starting point
<TheBratchet> OK - I'll search deeper. I've looked there, but I didn't find a good handle on how easy/difficult it was to get started.
<Brujah> Hy everybody!
<Brujah> Is there a chance that I get a program of mine that you need a commercial compiler for in the universe archive of ubuntu?
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> everything in universe must be compilable with a compiler in universe or main
<crimsun> it's possible to get it into multiverse, however.
<Brujah> Damn. My game is written in purebasic which is closed source
<Brujah> Okay where so i have to aks for that?
<crimsun> err, closed source? that's even more difficult.
<Brujah> www.purebasic.com
<Brujah> My game is here:
<Brujah> www.lostlabyrinth.com
<Brujah> Its opensource but I wrote it in a commercial compiler
<crimsun> does it compile with gcc/g++ at all?
<Mithrandir> purebasic is a completely different language, iirc
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> yeah, duh
<plugwash> on the subject of compilers how are self compiling compilers supposed to be introduced to universe
<Brujah> Its a macroassembler and creates fasm code
<crimsun> sorry, I completely missed the "basic" string
<Mithrandir> plugwash: they're bootstrapped by hand, usually.
<plugwash> yeah i remember lamont saying that but it never actually happened
<Brujah> But in multiverse it is possible?
<crimsun> it would face the same dilemma that azureus once faced
<Brujah> means?
<Brujah> Ah based on java?
<crimsun> yeah, it wasn't in Ubuntu prior due to requiring a non-free Java
<Brujah> I fear there will never be a free purebasic. But multiverse would be okay for me!
<Brujah> Simply because its too small
<pianoboy3333> tuxmaniac: I think I'm doing something wrong... I tried to debianize another program and it failed with similar errors
<bddebian> pianoboy3333: Have you read any of the wiki pages, or better yet, the Debian New Maintainers guide?
<pianoboy3333> bddebian: I have been reading the Debian New... guide
<bddebian> OK, great
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: what kind of problems are you talking about?
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: let me get an output, hold on
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-26
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: oki
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: hold on, what's <packagename>-default.ex for in debian/* ?
<Bluekuja> its the initscrip
<Bluekuja> t
<Bluekuja> are you packaging a daemon?
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: no
<pianoboy3333> if not I don't need it?
<Bluekuja> pianobay3333: in fact you need it to add options to the daemon
<Bluekuja> pianobay3333: a initscript
<Bluekuja> if you dont need files like it or emacs one
<Bluekuja> or watch.ex etc, just delete them
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: what about postinst.ex postrm.ex preinst.ex prerm.ex ?
<Bluekuja> they are maintainer scripts
<Bluekuja> for dpkg
<pianoboy3333> So keep those
<Bluekuja> in fact they're scripts for upgrade, install, etc
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: what command should I build with?
<pianoboy3333> debuild?
<Bluekuja> yep, or dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
<Bluekuja> remember to add your key to the file
<Bluekuja> but anyway debuild will ask you for it
<pianoboy3333> right
<Bluekuja> just manage to create a working key, and write down the pwd when its requested
<Bluekuja> remember to check the package with both linda and lintian
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: can you tell me how to do that?
<Bluekuja> what? key?
<pianoboy3333> no
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: linda and lintian, just run it in the top source directory?
<Bluekuja> no
<Bluekuja> you have to run them on the package
<Bluekuja> like
<Bluekuja> lintian packagename.deb
<pianoboy3333> after it's built though
<pianoboy3333> oh
<Bluekuja> lintian packagename.changes
<Bluekuja> etc
<Bluekuja> anyway if you need to upload it to revu, you have to include sources in it
<Bluekuja> with -S -sa options
<jmanblue> what exactly does a MOTU do??
<jmanblue> it sounds cool...
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: here's what happened: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14357
<pianoboy3333> jmanblue: it's for maintainers and packaging and such
<Bluekuja> jmanblue: create packages, review them, upload them in universe etc
<Bluekuja> for the community
<pianoboy3333> Ubotu isn't in here?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: let me take a look
<pianoboy3333> This isn't just when trying to build this package, I've tried others too
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: the package is a python module
<Bluekuja> if you install it
<Bluekuja> normally
<Bluekuja> do you get that error too right?
<pianoboy3333> No
<jmanblue> cool, i've always wondered how to create packages...
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: I was able to install and build it with checkinstall fine
<pianoboy3333> that's the weird part
<Bluekuja> tell me what you did
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: you can get the directory I'm working with at http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.bz2
<pianoboy3333> no, wait
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: it's at http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.tar.bz2
<pianoboy3333> agggg
<pianoboy3333> I'll never figure out what's wrong...
<pianoboy3333> damnit
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: just a moment, I'm checking
<pianoboy3333> oh, I thought you were away, sorry ;)
<pianoboy3333> you are marked as away actually
<Bluekuja> oh yes, i forget it
<Bluekuja> no more away ^^
<Bluekuja> installing deps
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: you'll need to compile them unfortunately, it depends on libnotify4
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: http://www.galago-project.org/downloads.php
<Bluekuja> yep, i've just noticed it
<Bluekuja> okie let me compile
<Bluekuja> i'll have to package that lib
<Bluekuja> ^^
<pianoboy3333> Yea, once I get past compiling a simple program, I'll move on to libs...
<Bluekuja> yeah, it harder creating libs
<Bluekuja> *its
<Bluekuja> anyway you'll need to read the debian guide
<Bluekuja> and make some practice
<Bluekuja> more deps for that file
<Bluekuja> lets install them ^^
<pianoboy3333> Like?
<Bluekuja>  Package requirements (gtk+-2.0 >= 2.2.2 glib-2.0 >= 2.2.2, dbus-1 >= 0.36, dbus-glib-1 >= 0.36) were not met.
<Bluekuja> i have glib and dbus installed
<pianoboy3333> are you able to sucessfully build the package?
<Bluekuja> aww dbus version 0.36
<Bluekuja> i have 0.23
<pianoboy3333> 0.23? I have 0.60 are you using breezy?
<Bluekuja> I'm on Debian now
<pianoboy3333> oh
<Bluekuja> lets move to the laptop
<Bluekuja> give me a minute
<Bluekuja> i open it
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: whazup?
<Bluekuja_laptop> pianoboy3333: still there?
<pianoboy3333> yep
<Bluekuja_laptop> can you send me
<Bluekuja_laptop> the link again?
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja_laptop: http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.tar.bz2
<Bluekuja_laptop> also lib
<pianoboy3333> http://www.galago-project.org/downloads.php
<Bluekuja_laptop> pianoboy3333: I'm having a problem with sudoers file that has got chmod 777
<Bluekuja_laptop> so i cannot run synaptic, or other applications that requires root
<pianoboy3333> hmmm?
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja_laptop: why?
<Bluekuja_laptop> coz yesterday i was setting up some permissions on /etc
<pianoboy3333> so....
<pianoboy3333> login as root
<pianoboy3333> and fix it I guess
<Bluekuja_laptop> of course, but its disabled
<pianoboy3333> very niced
<Bluekuja_laptop> yeah, the only time that i forget to change root pwd
<pianoboy3333> what do you need to do? fakeroot may help
<Bluekuja_laptop> synaptic can't be launched with fakeroot...
<pianoboy3333> 'twould be a problem
<Bluekuja_laptop> i'm without root and sudo
<Bluekuja_laptop> what can i do?
<Bluekuja_laptop> format :D
<plugwash> what bootloader are you using?
<Bluekuja_laptop> grub
<plugwash> mmm unfortunately i have no experiance with grub
<Bluekuja_laptop> aww
<Bluekuja_laptop> well its the first time that i get thi problem
<plugwash> what you need to do is pass init=/bin/bash on the kernel command line
<plugwash> not sure how you'd do that with grub though
<plugwash> when you do that the kernel should boot and drop straight into a rootshell
<Bluekuja_laptop> oh
<Bluekuja_laptop> let me check it with grub
<pianoboy3333> There is the safty mode, or whatever it's called that boots into a root shell
<Bluekuja_laptop> ah yeah right
<Bluekuja_laptop> brb
<plugwash> yeah that might work too if theres no root password set at all
<plugwash> rather than a forgotten root password
<pianoboy3333> plugwash: isn't it bad to have a root password?
<Bluekuja> plugwas: thanks to make me remember about safety mode
<Bluekuja> ^^
<pianoboy3333> I had that idea though :-(
<plugwash> well ubuntu has this strange idea of using sudo all the time, i'm not sure i see the point myself
<plugwash> using a seperate root password and su rather than sudo at least means that they need to steal two passwords
<pianoboy3333> plugwash: I don't know, what's wrong with sudo? it uses the user password instead of one root password that can corrupt the sys
<pianoboy3333> plugwash: that's the idea, you disable the root password
<plugwash> sudo still gets you root
<plugwash> you can do just as much damage with sudo as with a direct root login
<pianoboy3333> ok, w/e
<crimsun> plugwash: the lesson here is "best practices" for people migrating, and thus new to Linux
<plugwash> crimsun i just don't belive that what people are pushing as best practice really is
<crimsun> plugwash: it never was the intention to /prevent/ someone from using su. It's presumed that if one is competent enough to understand the tradeoffs between su and sudo, then sudo -{i,s} are as easily accessible as su [-] 
<pianoboy3333> plugwash: I think I'd obviously have a different opinion if I used another distro other than ubuntu
<crimsun> plugwash: as polemic as theo et al. can be, they have a good point pushing the use of sudo.
<crimsun> Personally that is a smart move for Ubuntu.
<plugwash> crimsun so what do you think is so good about sudo? other than the fact it lets an attacker into root with one password rather than two (which is something of a disadvantage)
<crimsun> plugwash: an audit trail if used properly.
<plugwash> once someones root thats easilly tampered with, i guess it could help deal with admin incompetance though
<plugwash> (on a multi admin box)
<crimsun> well obviously once root privileges have been gained, there's nothing one can do short of physically yanking the box.
<plugwash> also iirc sudo only asks for your password once for several commands
<crimsun> you can shorten the timeout
<plugwash> so all malware running under your user account has to do is wait for you to use sudo and then use it itself
<crimsun> that's no different from su
<crimsun> however, at least it will be logged
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333:  I've to go now, i'm really tired, whole day working on some packages ,tomorrow come here, I'll give you news about your package
<Bluekuja> cya plugwash, cya crimsum
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: kk
<crimsun> bye Bluekuja
<plugwash> note: i'm not saying i like su much better but at least it asks for the password every time and uses a different password from your main login
* Bluekuja wants to say Thanks to Safety Mode before go :)
<Bluekuja> cya guys
<bluefoxicy> Hey, is anyone interested in games?  :)
<bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games  I spent about an hour triaging those 8, just to clean things up.
<plugwash> i tend to belive that most desktop users have security backwards. The aim should be to restrict apps in dangerous positions (web browsers irc clients etc) not to let all the users apps shit on each other while requiring special (and malware vulnerable) systems to raise the permissions for things involving hardware
<tseng> thats why ubuntu goes out of its way to not run hal as root
<bluefoxicy> plugwash:  you sound like you don't like NOrton AV or Windows Defender, with them allowing normal users to disinfect critical system files.........
<trappist> if somebody could do a quick rebuild/upload of eterm, per bug #45815 a long-standing problem would go away and I sure would be happy.  any takers?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45815 in eterm "Eterm needs a rebuild against updated libast" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45815
<plugwash> bluefoxicy well windows is even worse, it pretty well forces you to run as admin and then makes it very hard to downgrade privilages for individual apps
<bluefoxicy> XD
<plugwash> tbh i rarely run exposed user apps (web browsers etc) on linux anyway so i just run as root all the time
<plugwash> but if i wanted more security running as a low privilage user would not be the way i'd go about doing it
<bluefoxicy> we all run as root all the time
<bluefoxicy> just with training wheels (sudo)
<bluefoxicy> you don't actually think that thing would actually stop a compromised account from gaining root access do you?
<plugwash> no i don't but i think too many people are under the false impression that it will
<bluefoxicy> I should write a proof of concept that infects an ubuntu user's account and runs rm -f /boot/* when he next sudos
<bluefoxicy> that would leave the system unbootable, but easily fixable (livecd, re-install your kernel)
<plugwash> agreed, if possible make it work with su as well
<bluefoxicy> anyone who actually runs it is asking for it.
<bluefoxicy> but i'm far too lazy
* bluefoxicy wrote a theoretical script to do it and explained the scenario but doesn't feel like implementing the attack.
<bluefoxicy> plugwash:  right now I'm more interested in Nexuiz, OpenQuartz, and CrystalCore being packaged and promoted to main so we can say we got games.
<bluefoxicy> Ubuntu LAN Party LiveCD?  :)
<plugwash> i'm a debian user really, i only started hanging out here trying to get freepascal into universe (without success)
<plugwash> it seems there are only a few people who can perform a non autobuilt upload and they are always distracted by other stuff
<bluefoxicy> are those three things in debian proper somewhere?
<bluefoxicy> N isn't....
<trappist> who should I appeal to?  my favorite console is unusable on my desktop, and I'm a console guy, it'd just be a quick build/upload of eterm
<Amaranth> trappist: Not going to happen for dapper.
<trappist> Amaranth: you're kidding.
<Amaranth> I'm not
<trappist> Amaranth: it doesn't even need patched.  libast was patched and was supposed to trigger an eterm upload but didn't
<Amaranth> it's too close to release time, you'd have to find someone who isn't busy squashing bugs
<crimsun> err, I'm pretty sure I triggered that, did I not?...
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  that... is a bug?
<trappist> crimsun: yes, but that patch didn't do the trick - a subsequent patch does
<crimsun> argh, so another lock-step dance?
<crimsun> if so, you know the drill.
<bluefoxicy> it's universe isn't it
<Amaranth> bluefoxicy: Oh, I thought it was a totally new package.
<trappist> crimsun: I had tested the previous patch, but stupidly, with both patches applied.  it's the second one that actually worked.
<bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  nah, he's complaining eterm won't work.
<Amaranth> Ok, that's a different story.
<crimsun> trappist: reopen the bug (subscribe me if I'm not already) and clarify with url(s) to relevant patches, please
<trappist> crimsun: I opened a new eterm bug for it - you want me to reopen the libast bug?
<crimsun> trappist: if a patch will touch it, absolutely.
<crimsun> if libast is already fixed and done with, then no.
<trappist> libast is fixed and done with - eterm just needs a rebuild/upload
<trappist> eterm is bug #45815
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45815 in eterm "Eterm needs a rebuild against updated libast" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45815
<crimsun> I triggered that upload /after/ libast had built and was synced
<crimsun> so if the bug is still there, then the libast patch is insufficient
<trappist> crimsun: let me check my timeline, but I'm 90% sure there was a subsequent (correct) patch that did not trigger an eterm upload
<trappist> yes, the Eterm changelog is 1 week older than the libast2 changelog
<crimsun> so essentially I /didn't/ trigger the upload?
<crimsun> (which is what I was asking)
<trappist> you did, that patch didn't do the trick, there was another patch and another libast upload, and *that* upload didn't trigger an eterm upload.
<crimsun> that's because we have to trigger them by hand
<trappist> I see
* crimsun updates for kicks
<trappist> that's what I figured when there wasn't a new eterm for the new libast, so a new upload is what I was asking for
<crimsun> ok, so post-Barry's patch last week
<crimsun> gotcha.
<trappist> exactly
<crimsun> I'll chuck it.
<trappist> err
<trappist> I'm referring TO barry's patch - that's the good one that eterm needs a build against
<crimsun> chuck->trigger
<trappist> oh ok :)
<trappist> I got confused on the timeline and briefly thought you were barry
<crimsun> Uploading via ftp eterm_0.9.2-8.3build2_source.changes: done.
<crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages.
<trappist> awesome, thanks
<crimsun> np
<Frem> Hello. Whenever I connect to a wifi network using this atheros card, I get a "BUG" message and what looks like a kernel panic.
<Frem> The error message says "[4295144.337000]  BUG: soft lockup detected on CPU#0!"
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<bddebian> Frem: Can you please file a bug on launchpad.net with as much detail as possible?
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<Frem> bddabian: aside from what I just said, the model of the card, and the kernel, what else do you want?
<imbrandon> heya bddebian and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon :)
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<bddebian> Frem: If you feel adventerous, you can try some of this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<crimsun> congrats Tonio_, Hobbsee, et al.
<Tonio_> crimsun: :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: congratulations to you as well :)
<bddebian> Oh?  Did I miss something AGAIN?
<Tonio_> same for you Hobbsee :)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yeah, kubuntu council got created
<Tonio_> bddebian: for the kubuntu cc
<bddebian> Oh, awesome, congrats you two
<Tonio_> bddebian: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<imbrandon> nice
<Frem> bddebian, not that adventerous. :-/
<imbrandon> kubuntu council ? bddebian feel like a quick upload ? http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/temp      its a gnucash patch
<bddebian> Frem: No problem :-)  Please file what you can.
<imbrandon> from malone
<bddebian> imbrandon: Nah, I don't do any uploads. ;-P
<imbrandon> hehehe
* imbrandon gos back into the corner then *
<bddebian> :-)
<crimsun> man, that crazy bddebian with his upload sprees.
<imbrandon> someone got a link on the info for becoming a kubuntu member ( not motu *yet* ) heheh
<Hobbsee> er...i'm not sure if one exists
<Hobbsee> oh yes, sure it does
<imbrandon> ?!? heh
<bddebian> crimsun: Sorry man :-(
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Hobbsee> add yourself to that list - follow the ubuntu new membership guide...
<imbrandon> umm list?
* Hobbsee is afk
<Hobbsee> er, well, create that list
<imbrandon> heh ok
* Hobbsee will fix it up in a bit
<Hobbsee> but breakfast first!
<imbrandon> yea go get food ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<bddebian> imbrandon: Can I ask one favor?
<imbrandon> k Hobbsee thanks
<Hobbsee> same thing, except for Add yourself to the Community Council Agenda and link to the wiki page - in our case, it's the kubuntu meeting page
<imbrandon> ok
<Hobbsee> i think that's the case, anyway
<imbrandon> bddebian: sure
<bddebian> imbrandon: Please use .diff or .patch for your files not .dsc.  It's very confusing at times :-)
<imbrandon> ahhh ok np , yea i use .diff here but change it to .dsc when i put it in the web sir, but i'll stop
<crimsun> in fact, if you're generating debdiffs, it's good practice to suffix them .debdiff
<crimsun> that way there's no doubt :-)
<imbrandon> kk yea they are debdiff's
<imbrandon> s/sir/dir
<bddebian> imbrandon: OK, gnucash uploading
<imbrandon> cool i'll remove it from my temp dir, that should close that malone bug too, i dunno how to close it on launchpad.net
<crimsun> click the source package link, and change the Status to "Fix Released"
<imbrandon> k
<bddebian> Why the hell would scanpci binary be included in gatos?
<imbrandon> heh
<Frem> bddebian, I've submitted the bug. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/45822
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45822 in Ubuntu "Atheos - BUG: soft lockup detected on CPU#0!!" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Toadstool> hey
<bddebian> Frem: Great, thanks
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<Toadstool> g'night all
<imbrandon> ok updated my wiki and added myself to the page Hobbsee ( and changed a few minor things for ya like the link to kibuntu-members on launchpad.net was typo'd )  ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe thanks imbrandon
<Hobbsee> i thought i fixed that
<Hobbsee> hope you didnt add yourself ot ubuntu members as well...
* imbrandon pokes Hobbsee and bddebian to see if they will show up for the meeting on my behalf ;) ( says i should bring a fanclub )
<imbrandon> Hobbsee:  nope
<imbrandon> just kubuntu
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'd better be...
<Hobbsee> good :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i cant exactly cheer for you...
<bddebian> imbrandon: What meeting?
<imbrandon> i changed the
<imbrandon> timezone thiong at the top to to work like the ubuntu agenda one
<imbrandon> also
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i warn you now, i doubt we know what we're doing...so it might all be in a bit of a mess...
<imbrandon> bddebian: the next kubuntu-meeting
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: np ;) i'm down for ground floor messes ;)
<imbrandon> bddebian: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings
<bddebian> imbrandon: I doubt that I have any sway with kubuntu :-)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: small point - ubotu does the pointing, not ubugtu...
<Hobbsee> :P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: if you've seen his work, it counts
<imbrandon> whoops ;)
<LaserJock> does kubuntu have a council yet? I thought that was being formed in Paris
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, it does, it was announced yesterday
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what list?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2006-May/001217.html
<Hobbsee> i suspect it got posted to other lists as well - or more people are subscribed to that one than i thought
<imbrandon> whoa havent seen a netsplit in ahwile
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: who is achim
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: allee
<LaserJock> oh ok
<Quash> Anyone know which team oversees ShipIt?
<Quash> anyone here?
<bddebian> Quash: Oversees in what regard?
<Quash> Who makes decisions re: ShipIt
<bddebian> What is ShipIt?
<Quash> When you get Ubuntu CDs shipped to you free of charge.
<bddebian> Oh, Hmm.  Sorry I don't know
<bddebian> Have you tried the wiki pages?
<Hobbsee> isnt that listed on teh shipit page?
<Quash> couldn't find a contact email on the shipit page.
<Hobbsee> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq#head-7eef2db63e0a75424cdd663ee6f7b8eedcf19607
<slackern> info@shipit.ubuntu.com
<slackern> oh sorry see Hobbsee already put up the link.
<Hobbsee> hehe it's okay
* Hobbsee contemplates getting one
<slackern> I put in an order for 10, that will suffice nicely for my friends and me.
<slackern> talked to some guy who put in an order for 500 just for the kicks of it, darn i got so mad, such a waste.
<Quash> thanks!
<Quash> Yeah, ordering 500 for "kicks" is the act or an idiot...or an M$ employee.
<Quash> I think the ShipIt program is missing one tiny thing...
<slackern> to top it off he said he was just going to throw them away, i said he should atleast try to put them out somewhere where other people could atleast take and try one, like at a shoppingmall or whatever.
<chillywilly> lalala
<slackern> ohlala
<Hobbsee> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
<Quash> ... a small collapsable (sp?) display case made of the same material as the CD case that would hold, lets say, 20 cds.  Small enough to ship in the same size packaging and to sit in a computer store by the cash register.
<Hobbsee> slackern: notified cannonical of this?  they coul dprobably just not send that many...
<imbrandon> Quash: exactly
<chillywilly> bddebian: wherefore art thou bddebian
<slackern> Hobbsee: No i haven't let them know, i saw you could make special orders for more cd's if you needed i was guessing he did something like that.
<Hobbsee> slackern: you might want to
<Quash> Then, you build a community-based campaign.  Ubuntu users go to their local independent computer shops and see if the stores would agree to take 20 free CDs and use the display case.
<slackern> Hobbsee: aye you are right, but i only have his forumname im afraid.
<Quash> So, Ubuntu users become distributors... helping to introduce mainstream, non-Linux users to Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> slackern: that'd do...
<slackern> Quash: thats a good idea
<imbrandon> Quash: I stick one in with every order i ship from ebay thats a computer part ( hard drives , nic cards etc )
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<Hobbsee> besides, it's pretty easy to figure out who it was...most people dont order 500...
<chillywilly> bddebian: hey
<imbrandon> slackern: they could lookup his ip and the order ips easy
<imbrandon> with the forum name
<slackern> imbrandon: ahh good, i will locate the thread and mail to info@shipit.ubuntu.com i guess.
<Quash> My local computer shop had a tonne of Ubuntu CDs, but they just sat in a messy stack, off on an out of the way counter.
* Hobbsee just downloads them
<Hobbsee> usually testing cds, to test them out
<imbrandon> yea or a daily build ;)
<imbrandon> Quash: thats too bad
<chillywilly> I'm tired...
<imbrandon> Quash: yea i figure if they are ordering a computer part from me on ebay then i can send them a ubuntu cd also with the order and they MIGHT use it
<Quash> A cheap, small display case would have kept them organized and right by the cash register.  Could state it's "Free" and there could be re-ordering instructions on the back for the store owners, once they saw them fly off the shelves.
<imbrandon> yup
<imbrandon> email shipit or mark about it ;)
<Quash> how do I email mark?
<Quash> ...not that he probably wants to be bothered with stuff like this...
<imbrandon> dunno there probbly a link on http://www.markshuttleworth.com/
<slackern> haha,darn that forum has alot of ubuntu discussion nowadays, still plowing through threads to find it.
<Quash> can't see an email address for him on his site.
<slackern> look him up in the wiki, i saw he has like a tons of adresses, markshuttleworth@canonical.com markshuttleworth@gmail.com are 2 if i remember correctly.
<Hobbsee> i'd try mark@ubuntu.com or sabdfl@ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> but i doubt mark is the one to do anything about it - he probably has very little to do with the cds
<Hobbsee> he's a very busy man, i'm told
<LaserJock> also his LP page has email addresses
<pianoboy3333> Can someone help me with a deb I cannot build? http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.tar.bz2 contains the build directory I'm working with
<imbrandon> little inet trubbly today Hobbsee ??
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, i just switched to the other kernel then...
<imbrandon> ahh ;)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee / bddebian how to fix the umetdeps ?
<imbrandon> theres a ton of those i can run through i bet
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: grab source, change deps, add to changelog, build in pbuilder, upload debdiff
<Hobbsee> be careful though - bddebian's done some but hadnt updated the page :P
<imbrandon> heh ok change deps as in remove the ones that are unmet is more what i ment ;)
<imbrandon> k
<Hobbsee> yes.  no, change them to what they should be...
<imbrandon> i found that with dh_iconcache too, alot of the packages in main at the top are done but arent updated, i'm audating those now too as i run accross them
<Hobbsee> ah yes, that's different
<Hobbsee> i ended up modifying cdbs - so any packages that dont use a special kde.mk only need a rebuild
<imbrandon> nice
<imbrandon> i couldent get kvirc2 to build for me, i might try it again later tonight if i get bored
<imbrandon> al the rest i did are uploaded
<imbrandon> s/al/all
<imbrandon> yea i was going by this when looking for unmet deps ( from dholobacks blog ) LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2 | sort -u |      xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u
<imbrandon> *dholbach
* tuxmaniac welcomes neutrinomass 
<neutrinomass> Good morning tuxmaniac :)
<Hobbsee> hi neutrinomass and tuxmaniac
<neutrinomass> hi Hobbsee
* tuxmaniac jumps on Hobbsee for a change!
* Hobbsee bashes up tuxmaniac 
* tuxmaniac is on the floor! :(
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> being beaten up by a girl...for shame!
<crimsun> that Hobbsee is a violent one
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee uses "mv /dev/crimsun /dev/null"
<Hobbsee> hush crimsun :P
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee seems to like /dev/null a lot!!
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee sends tuxmaniac there as well.
* Hobbsee is on a roll today!
<tuxmaniac> I pity /dev/null . Yesterday it has to take in all those bugs in it.. And today its crimsun.. Oh oh.. ahhhhhh And its me now!
<Hobbsee> hehe!
* neutrinomass seems to have escaped and will continue living undisturbed in /dev/random
<neutrinomass> What about a progress bar in gksu to solve #9214 ?
<tuxmaniac> bug 9214
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 9214 in gksu "gksu error reporting could be more friendly" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/9214
<tuxmaniac> ok wishlist! Hmm..
<crimsun> a progress bar?
* tuxmaniac woders how error reporting can be done using a progress bar!
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Well, you can't know beforehand if sudo will fail.
<crimsun> right, but a passwd dialogue implies atomicity
<neutrinomass> crimsun: It's mainly to address the "wait. nothing.nothing.nothing" issue described in the bug-report when you type the wrong password ...
* Hobbsee thinks it's fairly obvious.  kdesu has failed if the program started with kdesu does not show up.
<crimsun> there's no intermediate state, so a progress bar is wrong semantically
<Mithrandir> 'morning
<tuxmaniac> +1
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Ugh, yes, you're right.Not lose focus then? Keep the gksu window open ?
<crimsun> morning Mithrandir
* tuxmaniac waves at Mithrandir 
<crimsun> neutrinomass: that's a difficult one
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
<neutrinomass> crimsun: I'm not familiar with how gksu works but it doesn't seem so difficult.... :-/
* Mithrandir notes that radio sending calm, slow-moving pop-ish-electronica-ish music on a sunday morning is very nice.
<sivang> Mithrandir: I agree. Is this a net radio so I could also calm myself? :)
<Mithrandir> http://media.hiof.no/streams/m3u/nrk-petre-128.ogg.m3u is the 128kbit ogg vorbis stream, http://media.hiof.no/streams/m3u/nrk-petre-172.ogg.m3u is the 172 kbit one.
<Mithrandir> (they have mp3 and wma too, but I guess ogg is the easiest one)
<sivang> hmm, my totem seems to not be able to play this.
<sivang> I shold be able to play ogg ootb..
<Mithrandir> works for me by just clicking on the link in firefox.
<sivang> and mplayer inside fireofx opens for you?
<Mithrandir> totem spawns externally
<Mithrandir> it's totem-gstreamer, too
<sivang> anything to configure to make this work? any required libs to install to not get "totem could not play...."
<sivang> ah
<Mithrandir> xmms should be able to play it too, I think
* sivang isntalls totem-gstreamer
<sivang> Mithrandir: I will try if t-gs doesn't work. were you able to do anything with the p5 machine ?
<Mithrandir> I didn't have time to test on friday, but I'll do so tomorrow.
<sivang> Mithrandir: ah sure, can you set up anybody with remote access to this machine btw? (if we can get an HMC On it that would be best)
<Mithrandir> I don't have anything I can hook up to the HMC, but I can just connect it to the box I'm irc-ing off using a serial cable, sure.  Or it can run ssh and be on a public network.
<sivang> Mithrandir: if you have a cat-5 cable, that is all you need to hook up between the HMC and the managed system.
<sivang> Mithrandir: you would at least have the internal communication between the HMC and your p5 server
<Mithrandir> well, I don't think I have a HMC, or is those always shipped with such systems?
<Mithrandir> I don't have the packaging slip here so I can't really check.
<sivang> Mithrandir: that depends. the HMC is usually offered together with the server, but it's not mandatory IIRC.
<Mithrandir> I can always check tomorrow, but I didn't see anything.
<Mithrandir> what does it look like?
* sivang waits for network to respond
<neutrinomass> Bug 41827 has been fixed in debian if anybody is interested in getting it to dapper ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41827 in pida "pida seg faults" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41827
<desplesda> hi, i notice that the packages for ogre3d are at 1.0.6, but the latest stable release is 1.2, is there anyone currently working on packaging the new version?
<DarkMageZ> desplesda, ogre-tools?
<desplesda> ogre-tools, libogre-dev, libogre5c2a
<desplesda> they're all built from 1.0.6
<DarkMageZ> are currently reasonably in sync with debian, any critical bugs?
<desplesda> no, no bugs that i'm aware of
<desplesda> ah, i should be talking to the debian packagers about updating this?
<DarkMageZ> if they update, it increases the likelyhood of ubuntu updating
<desplesda> ok, i'll go and talk to them
<desplesda> thanks
<phanatic> hi people
<DarkMageZ> hello
<sivang> Mithrandir: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/eserver/v1r3s/topic/iphau/iphau410.gif&imgrefurl=http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/eserver/v1r3s/topic/iphau/partshmc.htm&h=453&w=480&sz=38&tbnid=xxBFGPTIY70WfM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=126&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHardware%2BManagement%2BConsole%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DX
<Mithrandir> sivang: ok, so it's a complete 1U box?  I certainly don't have such a thing
<\sh> nice little machine..but nothing against our 8U amd64 quad cpu machine with 5TB HD sata storage attached ;)..OEM made..
<sivang> Mithrandir: sort of :) SLES9 closed IBM distro, heavily augmented with Java on Steriods, used ot control the server and it's managed partitions. provides a *very* easy UI to control and acees the guest's terminals.
<\sh> siretart: ping
<sivang> Mithrandir: what's a 1U box ? :)
<\sh> pizzabox...1 rack unit
<sivang> \sh: ah k got it
<sladen> sivang: something 19inch wide and 44.5mm high
<sivang> sladen: like muse ? :)
<sladen> sivang: that's where the name comes from
<sladen> muse is in a 2U case
<sivang> ah, there a twin system with it in the case? (given it's a 2 rack box)
<\sh> no
<\sh> hp/compaq dl380, dl360 or dl385 (amd64) are 2U machines,
<sladen> sivang: muse is actually a vserver on a box called Pandora
<\sh> they have e.g. dual cpus or other things which can go hot sometimes :)
<\sh> so a 1U chassy is not an advantage
<sladen> 1U is fashionable because datacentre premium was space... now it's heat
<\sh> 1U can be used for webserver farms ... but not for other things where you need speed and storage
<\sh> but heat can be avoided with a fridge system ;)
<herzi> sivang: ping
<sivang> herzi: pong
<sivang> herzi: I saw there is a planned debian version roll up
<herzi> sivang: gq 1.0.0-1 is available from debian
<herzi> great
<sivang> herzi: cool, so I will ask a sync then
* sivang opens a sync request bug against ubuntu-archive members.
<herzi> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=364721
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 364721 in gq "Subject: gq: New upstream availible" [Wishlist,Closed] 
* sivang copies debian bts bug url and related it to the malone bug
<ajmitch> sivang: is there a good reason to get a new upstream in ?
<sivang> ajmitch: mainly bug fixes from the new upstream version.
<sivang> ajmitch: some of them (which herzi noted to me) are worthwhile a sync
<\sh> ajmitch: if you don't enjoy your weekend...please have a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230 new debian version sync fix the problem
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<ajmitch> \sh: why ask me?
<\sh> ajmitch: you can request the sync :)
<ajmitch> so could you
<\sh> ajmitch: I can't
<ajmitch> I'm sure the ubuntu-archive guys trust you still
<\sh> ajmitch: I follow the rules :)
<ajmitch> sigh
<\sh> ajmitch: actually.,..someone has to approve it :)
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> so it's a motu-uvf job
<\sh> wrote a mail to ubuntu-motu, and diffstat and upstream changelog are in the bugreport...
<ajmitch> assign it to motu-uvf instead
<\sh> ajmitch: done
<Toadstool> heya
<sivang> ajmitch: this is one bug report, do you think it should be deferred to after dapper ? (the sync)
<sivang> ajmitch: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gq/+bug/35825
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35825 in gq "Does not appear in the menu" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<Hobbsee> sivang: he went to bed...
<neutrinomass> In case somebody is bored and wants to fix something, I have a patch that as far as I can tell fixes bug 45828  Thanks.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45828 in gtksee "gtksee crashes (Dapper-beta1)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45828
<neutrinomass> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> heya neutrinomass
<tuxmaniac> Have somehow compiled and patched kernel 2.6.16 with ck11 pathes
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: It seems that DDs don't really know what to do with .desktops after all. Out of the 10-15 I've sent upstream, two responded. One rejected it and the other thanked me and will include it in the next upload :-/
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Why do you need 2.6.16 ? (I've heard some things on dapper break with 2.6.16 ... )
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: I want to know what breaks :D
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Hehe =)
<tuxmaniac> I will basically be missing those Ubuntu Patches which are pretty lot though ;)
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I was trying to find a list of those earlier today... I was looking into a bug report about some guys 3com card that worked with the debian kernel but didn't work with ubuntu. Is there a  list somwhere ?
<tuxmaniac> which list? Hardware list supported by Ubuntu?
<neutrinomass> (There are endless lists of small changelogs on launchpad which I didn't have the time to go through )
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Of the patches.
<tuxmaniac> hmmm neutrinomass I dont understand what you are asking
<tuxmaniac> List of kernel patches?
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Scott James remnant on 2.6.16 :  2.6.16 also changes the sysfs structure, so would require udev updates; and the new upstream of that has dropped libsysfs and made various other changes. ;)
<tuxmaniac> yes. Udev <-> kernel interaction is one issue
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Yes. A single list with the patches that are in Ubuntu and are not in debian ....
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Sorry I dont know
* neutrinomass just saw that spellcheck doesn't recognise the words "ubuntu" and "debian" :-/
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ok, thanks :)
<tuxmaniac> :)
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: hola!
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: hello man :)
<pianoboy3333> me is back to reak debianization havoc
<Bluekuja> hehe
<Bluekuja> have you tried again?
<pianoboy3333> What's going to change? :)
<Bluekuja> i thought you tried changing something ^^
<Bluekuja> anyway just a moment I'm finishing doing a package
<Bluekuja> then I'll help you
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: ping
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: pong
<tuxmaniac> wait
<pianoboy3333> for what?
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: thats a small fight between me and neutrinomass abt EDA tools
<tuxmaniac> ;)
<pianoboy3333> oh
<pianoboy3333> goody! geek fight!
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: I found around 128 people today alone who use Free EDA tools fro the electronic work
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: Do you want someone right now to come and tell that to you neutrinomass
<tuxmaniac> ^^^^^^^^^^
<neutrinomass> pfft, it's not a fight. It's a difference in opinions. Apparently tuxmaniac considers the semi-working state and tk interface of eda tools state of the art ...
<neutrinomass> LOL @ tuxmaniac
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: I'm not doubting that they are using them, do they like them though ? ;)
<tuxmaniac> neutrinomass: I never said that!!! :O
<tuxmaniac> anyways.. am not in a mood to fight now... Have better work ;)
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Seriously now, the other day I was thinking about that and was wondering whether something similar to qt-gtk-engine for tk ...
* tuxmaniac feels neutrinomass is now talking sense
<tuxmaniac> :)
<neutrinomass> ..exists....
* neutrinomass should learn to write sentences with verbs in them
<tuxmaniac> hey neutrinomass , will brb
<neutrinomass> tuxmaniac: Ok, me too
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Bluekuja> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Bluekuja
* tuxmaniac feels now things are gonna become really active
<Bluekuja> how are you man?
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: ? :-)
<bddebian> Bluekuja: Not bad thx, yourself?
<Bluekuja> bddebian: I'm really good tnx :)
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: repost your problem, so we can start help you
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: dpkg-buildpackage fails
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: you can get the directory I'm working with at http://piano.juicemedia.tv/tobuild-pynotify.tar.bz2
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: put here the link of pastebin
<Bluekuja> bddebian: check it too
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/14391
<AnAnt> does it make a difference which ubuntu version I using pbuilder for ?
<AnAnt> I mean, should I build packages for dapper or the one after it ?
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: Heya.. Sorry was not at desk
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: dapper, until the edgy repos open...
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thx
<pianoboy3333> Hobbsee: when is that?
<Hobbsee> pianoboy3333: couple of weeks after dapper release?
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure...
<pianoboy3333> oh
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: so, when the edgy repos open, should I then start building packages for edgy, or can I continue building for dapper ?
<Hobbsee> i wouldnt bother building for dapper now...
<tseng> when edgy is open, dapper has been closed for some weeks
<Hobbsee> you cant get anything new uploaded for dapper now
<Hobbsee> unless it's a rather large act of God to violate all the freezes
<AnAnt> really ? I just uploaded mldonkey
<Hobbsee> to revu, yes, not to repos...
<AnAnt> oh, ok
<AnAnt> but it will be reviewed anyways, right ?
<tseng> Hobbsee: (hehe)
<Hobbsee> :P
<bddebian> A straight configure fails for me as follows:
<bddebian> checking for NOTIFY_PYTHON... configure: error: Package requirements (pygtk-2.0 >= 2.4.0
<bddebian>                                   libnotify >= 0.4.0) were not met.
<bddebian> Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
<bddebian> installed software in a non-standard prefix.
<pianoboy3333> bddebian: http://www.galago-project.org/downloads.php
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: btw, if there is software version in REVU that is more up-to-date than debian's repos, which one would Ubuntu take ?
<Bluekuja> bdddebian: i had that problem too
<Bluekuja> bdddebian: also installing libnotify
<Hobbsee> er....
<Hobbsee> debians, at first
<tseng> the REVU uploaded should sync his changes to the latest debian rev
<tseng> if not done already
<AnAnt> tseng: I don't understand
<tseng> ok..
<Hobbsee> ah...is that it...yes...
<tseng> if Debian has changes that arent in ubuntu in revision 2
<tseng> ubuntu has revision 1
<tseng> and you base your package on it and create a new upstream
<tseng> you should include changes from debian rev 2
<tseng> in your upload to revu
<bddebian> Bluekuja: We do have libnotify1 I noticed :)
<AnAnt> tseng: I still don't understand, I will give an example, in debain there is mldonkey-2.7.3, and I uploaded a mldonkey-2.7.6 to REVU
<AnAnt> tseng: so what will happen now ?
<bddebian> AnAnt: This late in the game probably nothing
<tseng> this is going to be the last time I say something
<AnAnt> bddebian: huh ?
<tseng> ubuntu has 2.7.1-2ubuntu2
<tseng> debian has 2.7.3-1 lets say
<AnAnt> ok
<tseng> your 2.7.6 should include changes made between ubuntu 2ubuntu2 and debian 3.-1
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug 2 in glibc "GNU Free Documentation License is non-free" [Normal,Resolved: notwarty]  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2
<tseng> does this make sense?
<AnAnt> i see
<Hobbsee> that didnt make much sense to me :P
<Bluekuja> bdddebian: you managed to solve deps?
<Hobbsee> oh, yeah
<AnAnt> or else it won't be taken, right ?
<AnAnt> not even looked at
<tseng> well, a good motu would send you back to make another try
<tseng> we dont do "not even looked at"
<tseng> we tell you what is wrong and send you back to fix it
<AnAnt> ic, cool
<AnAnt> btw, does anyone have hibernate problems with Dapper ?
<tuxmaniac> what? ^^^
<tuxmaniac> No absolutely not AnAnt
<AnAnt> well, I am having hibernate problems lately
<AnAnt> I thought it maybe some bug from the updates, I update daily
<pianoboy3333> Sorry, internet collapsed
<tuxmaniac> I just loaded the 2.6.15-23 kernel..
<tuxmaniac> pianoboy3333: happens :) Murphy's law
<bddebian> Bluekuja: Nope :-(
<Bluekuja> bddebian: same problem for me
<Bluekuja> bddebian: i can't find the right package for that dep
* Hobbsee hasnt tried lately
<Hobbsee> hibernating is kinda pointless with bug 45759 on my system...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45759 in acpi-support "Resuming from suspend to disk, I get logged out!" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45759
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: wait... I'm thinking... how did you install libnotify version 0.4?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: I havent libnotify at all
<pianoboy3333> O_o
<pianoboy3333> That's no good
<Bluekuja> bddebian: what about you?
<bddebian> Ah libnotify1 is only 0.3 in Dapper
<Bluekuja> exactly
<Bluekuja> i'm on debian now
<AnAnt> qui
<Bluekuja> and my laptop is running breezy
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: hmmm let me try something
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: i never get that problem
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: i just finished a new package without problems
<pianoboy3333> really?
<pianoboy3333> it worked for you?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: nono, not that one :)
<pianoboy3333> oh :(
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: i'm trying to get that dep solved
<Bluekuja> bddebian: are you still getting problems with libnotify?
<bddebian> Bluekuja: Sorry I gave up.  I am looking at some bugs.
<pianoboy3333> Hmmmmm.... Bluekuja I'm going to make a debian out of the new libnotify-0.4.0, this I _can_ do
<Bluekuja> bddebian: np
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: thanks
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: you need to follow library guide for it
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: i go afk for 20 min
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: when you've done ping me
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: I have to run out for 15 minutes, unzip and install the debs.... take a look at http://piano.juicemedia.tv/libnotifydebs-0.4.0.tar.bz2
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: same deps errors as before
<jikanter> how do you load yelp's symbol table when debigging in gdb?
<jikanter> *debugging
<jikanter> %users
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: back
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: what deperrors?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: same as before
<pianoboy3333> What _were_ they?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: same as source install of course
<pianoboy3333> I understand but what where they?
<Bluekuja> i need to install a lot of libs thats the problem
<Bluekuja> and one of them
<Bluekuja> is libnotify1
<pianoboy3333> ok.... what ever
<Bluekuja> you made libnotify package
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: that is called an internet s**t
<pianoboy3333> When the internet craps out for that long, it's no longer crapping out
<Bluekuja> lol
<pianoboy3333> It's s**tting out
<Bluekuja> I'm lucky on that side
<Bluekuja> i dont have problems with internet connection
<pianoboy3333> heh
<pianoboy3333> It has to be something obvious that I'm missing, something to do with libnotify I think...
<Bluekuja> that package was  libnotify but in the deps there was libnotify too
<Bluekuja> it can't be possible
<pianoboy3333> this is becuase...
<pianoboy3333> It's getting installed to /usr/local instead of /usr where libnotify1 from the official repos is
<pianoboy3333> What's harder about making a library deb?
<Bluekuja> you have to follow  this guide
<Bluekuja> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<pianoboy3333> ok
<pianoboy3333> let me see if I have more luck with that
<Bluekuja> oki
<trappist> crimsun: that upload did fix eterm, thanks again
<buggs> a/part
<pianoboy3333> Bluekuja: too complicated for the short time I have right now, maybe later
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: oki
<pianoboy3333> So, how come notify-python won't build, there's a dependency missing?
<Bluekuja> pianoboy3333: yes
<pianoboy3333> I think I know
<pianoboy3333> package python-dev
<pianoboy3333> damnit... nope
<pianoboy3333> brb
<pianoboy3333> Is there any documentation on python2.4-apt? the apt python module?
<pianoboy3333> I still can't figure out what I'm missing...
<pianoboy3333> Has anyone here ever packaged a python module before?
<sladen> pianoboy3333: no.  best place to start would be to find another one and apt-get the source
<yosch> hi guys
<yosch> quick question: when a LP bug is not reproducible anymore: we only have "fix committed/fix released" as statuses
<yosch> is it OK to change to these statuses even if we're not sure where the bug has been fixed?
<sladen> yosch: fix released if you know something like fixed it
<sladen> yosch: rejected if you think it disappeared
<yosch> sladen: thanks, wasn't too sure about the meaning of rejected, in this case I think it's rejected, thanks
<sladen> yosch: at least those are the rules I play by, other people may have a different variation
<pianoboy3333> sladen: ever single one I've debianized is fine, except for pynoitfy O.o
<yosch> sladen: OK, any pointers to bugs docs for LP?
<sladen> yosch: can you ask that in a different way, I'm unclear what you're after
<yosch> sladen: sorry, is there some official documentation for malone which I can look up to get more details on the way I need to handle bugs?
<sladen> yosch: unfortunately, I think that maybe lacking.  Search for  'triage'
<yosch> sladen: got it
<ferronica> can any one tell me what is universe or multiverse
<yosch> ahh, found some docs: posting here since it may be useful for others https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadBugTriage
<ferronica> wat they do
<yosch> ferronica: all the details are here: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
<ferronica> yosch: how to edit source list???
<jpatrick> ferronica: gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<ferronica> yosch: how could i know what to add how to addd
<jpatrick> there's already there
<jpatrick> you just have to uncomment it
<ferronica> jpatrick: no text found
<jpatrick> ...
<ferronica> jpatrick: in my source.lsit
<ferronica> jpatrick: its blank
<ferronica> jpatrick: :(
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: tell me exactly what you did
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: just pasted this command-->
<ferronica>  gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<tuxmaniac> ok.. do this.. cd /etc/apt/
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: in Terminal
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: do ls and see whether sources.list is there?
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: ok i pasted that
<tuxmaniac> what did you paste?
<ferronica> cd /etc/apt/
<tuxmaniac> and do ls
<tuxmaniac> 'ls'
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: nothing opened
<tuxmaniac> type          ls
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: apt.conf.d   sources.list   sources.list_backup  trustdb.gpg  trusted.gpg~
<ferronica> secring.gpg  sources.list~  sources.list.save    trusted.gpg
<tuxmaniac> aah ok
<tuxmaniac> vi sources.list
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: this is the output
<tuxmaniac> type vi souces.list
<tuxmaniac> type 'vi sources.list'
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: now
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: a blank terminal
<tuxmaniac> vi sources.list_backup
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: will u give me a command directly to open source.list
<tuxmaniac> vi sources.list does that
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: but it opened it in terminal not in text window
<tuxmaniac> yeah.. its vi.
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: from where u got all knowledge abot these command
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: how to open source.list how to modify, what to add how to add all these
<tuxmaniac> hang around the IRCs :)
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: Me toooo wanna know it please
<tuxmaniac> join #ubuntu
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: then where i am now???????///
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: i think in ubuntu5.10
<tuxmaniac> you are in ubuntu-motu
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: what that mean motu???
<jpatrick> Master of the Universe
* tuxmaniac scratches his head!
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: and Universe is the name of the repos
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: ok, how to change  channel, any shortcut
<tuxmaniac> [/join #ubuntu] 
<jpatrick> without the [] 
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: okay
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: Copy and paste the contents of http://pastebin.com/730027
<tuxmaniac> into you sources.list
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: what is this???
<tuxmaniac> copy it from the text box below in the page otherwise you will get line numbers and all
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: it is the contents of sources.list that should be there
* tuxmaniac is off to sleep
* tuxmaniac has got work tomorrow
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: but i am using breezy badger5.10 not dapper
<tuxmaniac> aaaaaahhhhhh!! Sorry
<tuxmaniac> :)
<tuxmaniac> change all dapper to breezy
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: and dapper is beta not full version
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: it will release in mid june
<tuxmaniac> hmmm.
* tuxmaniac goes to sleep
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: Replace all the words dapper
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: with breezy
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: Am sorry.. I cant stay any longer
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: Its 1 AM here
<tuxmaniac> ferronica: See you
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: and here 12:45 AM
<tuxmaniac> you are from India?
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: same time little bit difference
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: Nepal
<tuxmaniac> oh ok. Anyways. ferronica Have to go bye
<ferronica> tuxmaniac: Bye
<crimsun> trappist: np
<pianoboy3333> Whazzzup?
<phanatic> evening
<lzap> nite
<crimsun> 'evening
<phanatic> crimsun: if you have a little time, could you please have a look at bug 32485?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32485 in sysinfo "sysinfo locks on startup" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32485
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-27
<crimsun> phanatic: perhaps in a couple hours
<crimsun> trying furiously to wrap up some work
<phanatic> crimsun: okay, thanks
<Sergi0> su
<LaserJock> hmm, do I need all three MOTU UVF guys to approve a UVFe before I can upload/request sync?
<ajmitch> yes
<LaserJock> ajmitch: k, that's what I thought but I couldn't remember
<zakame> heya all
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<ajmitch> hi
<Kyral> hey all
<imbrandon> 'ello
<zakame> hi LaserJock ajmitch Kyral imbrandon
<Kyral> lol
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Hobbsee> bug 45575
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45575 in Ubuntu "Username Case Login Bug" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45575
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: congrats on the Kubuntu Council position :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: thanks :)
<ajmitch> next thing you know she'll be in core-dev as well
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> especially coming from the Kubuntu side :-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> ;)
* Hobbsee will get used to being in the KCC first, then consider more
<Hobbsee> oh, and package.  bring on edgy!
<imbrandon> hehe
<Hobbsee> too bad about dapper you know...it's close enough :P
* imbrandon cant wait for edgy respos to be formed, and new kde work to start
<imbrandon> the more and more i'm messing with qt4 the more i love it
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: anything else that you see that i should prepare my self for at the kcc meeting ? ( /me dosent wanna look unprepared heh )
<imbrandon> brb smoke break
* Hobbsee will be half asleep at that, as usual...at least for the first bit
* Hobbsee is not a morning person
<imbrandon> hehe its afternoon here ( will be at 4pm localtime )
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: but you enjoy the early meetings so much
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> sure i do.  not.
<bluefoxicy> what
<bluefoxicy> somebody said there was a girl on the dev team?
<bluefoxicy> I didn't know girls were on the internet, much less maintaining linux distros
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: no, girls dont exist.
* sivang notes this is a growing and nice phenomena
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee does not exist
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: read http://www.escapistmagazine.com/print/17/27
<bluefoxicy> sivang:  nods, the digital paintball crew has one dev that was at a lan party recently, he was telling me today there were a couple "hot girls" there, just one or two, interesting creatures according to him
* Mithrandir waves
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  omfg pix plz
<ajmitch> hello Mithrandir
<bluefoxicy> :)
<imbrandon> omfg pix!!!!!111
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: please just stop
* ajmitch sighs
<bluefoxicy> she started it.  Kind of.
<bluefoxicy> Anyway.
<imbrandon> lol ajmitch it was from the link she posted ;)
* imbrandon hides as Hobbsee will surely flog him now
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: http://tinyurl.com/zshqd
<imbrandon> that is too funny though Hobbsee ;)
<Hobbsee> i know :P
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee, ajmitch
<Mithrandir> nice picture.
<bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Games 6 packaged already, 6 that need some love, 4 in development (2 work and could be packaged), 2 listed with licensing issues (Digital Paintball is being sorted out slowly by its devs)
<Hobbsee> hehe thanks Mithrandir
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  rhino?
* Hobbsee is
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I had no idea rhinos used KDE. ;-P
<Hobbsee> sure they do :P
<imbrandon> haha
<imbrandon> kinda hard to use the keyboard i would imagine
<Mithrandir> imbrandon: hard to use a mouse too.  Also, are rhinos scared of mice, like elephants are`
<Mithrandir> s/`/?/
<bluefoxicy> You don't 'use' KDE, you just buy more memory for it every week
* Hobbsee isnt going to bother starting a flamewar
<imbrandon> motu should realy have a ventrillo server though , and also for the ubuntu-meetings
<bluefoxicy> ventrillo?
<Hobbsee> then everyone would talk at once :P
<imbrandon> voice meeting / chat
<bluefoxicy> then we could hear the guys' porn in the background.
<Mithrandir> phone confs suck a lot more than IRC confs.
<bluefoxicy> Second
<bluefoxicy> I can't read the backlog on your voice.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee:  nah we used it in runuo development with alot of devs in there at once, dev's stay pretty quiet, now normal #kubuntu or something yea it would be a mess
<bluefoxicy> anyway
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that they do, they kept telling me to be quiet :P
<imbrandon> bluefoxicy: we kept mp3 logs on the web of the meetings AND transcribed them within 24 hrs ;)
<bluefoxicy> imbrandon:  lol
<bluefoxicy> guys
<bluefoxicy> I think Ubuntu needs more games support
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: add it?  :P
<imbrandon> heheh i was trying to find a way to package cedegacvs legaly
<imbrandon> no luck yet though, their lic sucks
<Mithrandir> I think somebody should help out with making a clone of syndicate wars.  That'd be nice.
<bluefoxicy> heh
<bluefoxicy> I'd rather build a level-editable Zelda clone
<imbrandon> ahhh i second that , i loved zelda ;)
<Mithrandir> I'm so far at the "play with opengl" level, but I intend to get something playable-ish at some point.
<bluefoxicy> heh
<bluefoxicy> I am wondering how to go about getting some sort of in-main support for games in Ubuntu, due to the niche market of gamers and the availability of quality Free games such as Nexuiz, Tremulous, Battle for Wesnoth, Glest, Armagetron, GLtron; and up-coming Quake 3 Open Arena, Crystal Core, and Zymotic
<Hobbsee> i doubt games would go into main...
<bluefoxicy> Anyone think this is a viable idea?
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  why not?
<Hobbsee> i thought they went into universe
<bluefoxicy> Generally
<bluefoxicy> aside from gnome-games and kde-games
<imbrandon> depends on the lic i thought
<bluefoxicy> I was more pondering the concept of an actual gaming seed though
<bluefoxicy> Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, these each are basically a desktop system with a different GDE
<bluefoxicy> Edubuntu is different, it has educational software, that's what it's for.
<imbrandon> and ltsp in edubuntu
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: what are the specs?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: i just finished reading that escapist link, thats too funny, but the sad part about it is i'm sure its all mosr than true and common ( although i'm sure you would know better than me )
<bluefoxicy> I was thinking of the gamers niche market, perhaps Ubuntu Gaming Edition or LPUbuntu (Lan Party Ubuntu), similar concept.  Instead of desktop productivity, a bunch of games get installed, mainly 3D FPS deathmatch and networked turn/real-time strategy; although a few gems like gtetrinet or GLtron would pop up too.
<imbrandon> spec's ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: hehe
<imbrandon> for what , edubuntu ?
<Hobbsee> i saw it on your launchpad page
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure
<bluefoxicy> I don't know if it's worth proposing though
<imbrandon> ahhh fubuntu is the specs
<bluefoxicy> fubuntu?  o.o
<imbrandon> fluxbox based ubuntu ;) speaking of seeds ;)
<Mithrandir> I think putting at least networked games in main makes some sort of sense -- I've seen enough security advisories for crashes in random games due to bad programming
<bluefoxicy> ah
<bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  it's more things go into main that ubuntu agrees to actually support
<bluefoxicy> But also I am interested in a supported gaming distro
<bluefoxicy> Just more to show off
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: spec == fubuntu  , hold on i'll get the spec link : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fubuntu-desktop
<bluefoxicy> Besides, I could go to a LAN party, bring 50 CDs with me, hand them out and everyone throws the LiveCD into their computer
<bluefoxicy> we all play Armagetron, Nexuiz, Doom wtf
<bluefoxicy> and then everyone goes home with an Ubuntu CD :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: that should probably be on your wiki page :P
<dholbach> good morning motu world!
<imbrandon> hehe true, i dident think about that
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<imbrandon> thanks
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<bluefoxicy> that would be about the coolest way to get people dual-booting.
<dholbach> hey ajmitch, hey imbrandon
<imbrandon> bluefoxicy: maybe ;) start it up, see where it go's
<bluefoxicy> imbrandon:  spec it?
<imbrandon> why not, and on the ubuntuforums.org
<imbrandon> maybe forums first and flesh it out
<imbrandon> then spec it and head over to ubuntu-devel and discuss it
<imbrandon> ;)
<bluefoxicy> I am aiming at getting a job (interview on tuesday) and trying to manage Peppermill (project manager/technical advisor, avoiding actually doing any development)
<imbrandon> peppermill casino ?
<imbrandon> heh
<bluefoxicy> peppermill uh.  side project for me to make a system to spit out livecds
<imbrandon> ahh
<bluefoxicy> not important
<bluefoxicy> But anyway, I'm more looking at focusing on trying to convince the devs to go with proactive security features in Edgy
<bluefoxicy> we have like no proactive security team anymore
<bluefoxicy> it all fell apart, one of the guys moved to fedora
<bluefoxicy> and nobody got anything done
<bluefoxicy> Fortunately RedHat got some low entropy stack and mmap() randomization into mainline Linux; and there's a stack protector and FORTIFY_SOURCE in gcc 4.1 mainline
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: added , thanks for the idea
<Hobbsee> np :)
<bluefoxicy> so all I have to do is figure out who to blow to get them to turn -Wstack-protector -DFORTIFY_SOURCE on and try to get a patch I wrote to adjust kernel entropy into Edgy's kernel
<bluefoxicy> (and then try to get one of the more favored devs to propose said patch to upstream)
<imbrandon> heh might be just as easy to get it upstream then it will flow to edgy
<bluefoxicy> upstream says "Why would anyone want/need to do this"?
<imbrandon> so make your case ;)
<bluefoxicy> it's a hard case
<bluefoxicy> there are cases where it does nothing; there are cases where it somewhat helps but the situation is still grave
<imbrandon> honestly i have no idea about most kernel stuff so thats a tad over me atm ;)
<bluefoxicy> well, it does something always
<Mithrandir> what does fortify_source do?
<bluefoxicy> it's just not anything important
<bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  I honestly don't really know :)
<bluefoxicy> it replaces strcpy() and friends with checked functions if the buffer length is known
<Mithrandir> also, adding random -W flags to the build doesn't change anything.
<bluefoxicy> and makes a check if the source length and buffer length are known
<bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  it's supposed to be -fstack-protector, someone told me they made it -W
<bluefoxicy> it's ProPolice merged into gcc basically, someone shifted around the code into different files to make it less invasive and sent it to mainline
<bluefoxicy> at any rate the patch I wrote for the kernel adds framework to adjust stack and mmap() randomization entropy, and takes advantage of this framework with a kernel command line parameter (which can be removed later in favor of SELinux hooks)
<bluefoxicy> thing is, basically your worst case is gaim having a stack buffer overflow (gaim has an executable stack, even on amd64), it's a straight 1/128 chance that your attack succeeds
<bluefoxicy> so for every 1000 attacks in this theoretical scenario, 10 infections would occur
<bluefoxicy> The point of ASLR, stack protection, and memory protection control is that before an attack exists, you can weigh what the impact of it would be, and reduce it to near nothing
<Mithrandir> why 1/128?
<bluefoxicy> Mithrandir:  the stack is randomized to 19 bits aligned on 16 byte boundaries.  If it is executable, you can pad shellcode to 4096 bytes (1 page) with NOPs in most cases, making it... oh, sorry.  11 bits, 2048 positions, where the hell did I get 128 from.
<bluefoxicy> At any rate.
<Mithrandir> yeah, it's not 100%, I see that.
<Mithrandir> just wondering where 128 came from
<bluefoxicy> For every 10,000 attacks, 5 succeed.  In theory, if we had a user base nearing 1 million, we could assume that there's a good chance random worm X would make a deep infection in 13 hours (5 iteratons, 1 attack per second, 1 iteration == 10,000 attacks from all infected machines, starting from 1 infected machine; iteration 5 leaves 1.25 million machines infected)
<bluefoxicy> I re-did the math with 256M of stack randomization (24 bits), it takes  oh god let me go actually read my notes.
<bluefoxicy> "The first iteration probably doesn't get anywhere; the attacker will likely have to attack 65536 times (18h12m @ 1/S) to start, and then each iteration is that many attacks with 1 infection per attacker.  The fifth iteration is 90 hours (3 days 18 hours) away, and on average 16 nodes should be infected by this time."
<bluefoxicy>  -- Me, LKML
<bluefoxicy> it takes 76 days to perform an infection to the scale of what takes 13 hours in this scenario on normal 8M stack randomization
<bluefoxicy> this is 76 days for a patch to be written, tested, built, distributed, and applied to the user base before that kind of massive infection.. almost 4 days before even 16 users should be infected in this scenario.
<bluefoxicy> The problem is
<bluefoxicy> once in a while you break something.
<bluefoxicy> Linus' mail client broke from high entropy randomization, when he tried to search his mail and it tried to mmap() a 2.5GiB mail box in and found the VMA was too fragmented to find a 2.5GiB not-used area
<bluefoxicy> Oracle does this too, and breaks.
<bluefoxicy> That's why the entropy is so small.
<bluefoxicy> My solution was to create a framework where you can easily adjust entropy-- with the eventual goal of having selinux hooks where policy can say that the default system entropy is MASSIVE, but the one or two programs every 3 millionth user has that break are known and set to low-order entropy
<Mithrandir> the right fix is obviously to not use mboxes, but maildirs.
<imbrandon> ;)
<bluefoxicy> Thing is, with a non-executable stack, you can only knock 1-1.5 bits of randomization off, and then have to deal with 8 bits of mmap() randomization to successfully perform a return to libc (return to system() with constructed stack frame)
<bluefoxicy> so you're going through 26 bits of entropy in any normal attack scenario -- 67108864 states, with only 1 being a success state, and it's a different one for each attack.  Remember, we just did this with 65536 states, and it took 3 days to spread a worm to 16 machines.
<Mithrandir> yeah, it scales up pretty quickly.
<bluefoxicy> so under any normal situation, as long as you have an NX bit (i.e. you're not on i386) and your app doesn't stupidly make its stack executable, we're kind of covered.
<bluefoxicy> I still prefer the whole-damn-world test myself.  Everyone in the whole damn world attacks you at once, how many get in :)
<bluefoxicy> 6 billion people in the world.
<bluefoxicy> another reason I like x86-64.  You can feasibly and sanely apply levels of entropy that put this test where every person in the world has to attack you 2 billion times before ONE compromises your system.
<bluefoxicy> TASK_SIZE is 47 bits minus a page, 128 terrabytes of VMA, you can chuck 16TiB of randomization at stack and mmap() AND heap and it'll just be like "lalala we can still mmap() the whole internet in one straight line here"
<bluefoxicy> and there's no trade-off
<bluefoxicy> it's like applying 50 tons more steel to tank armor, execpt the tank doesn't get heavier, or bigger.  :)
<bluefoxicy> And it's free steel.  :)
<bluefoxicy> why would you NOT do it
<bluefoxicy> forget looking for an excuse
<bluefoxicy> at any rate
<bluefoxicy> it's a hard argument to justify
<bluefoxicy> the gains are fuzzy at best, attacks in certain situations can upscail insanely (you can break 256M stack/mmap() randomization in 216 seconds on average if you find an Apache bug, just by iterating every possible state as fast as possible; although on x86-64 with 32 bits stack and 32 bits mmap() it takes eternity)
<bluefoxicy> and once in a while something breaks from it
<bluefoxicy> (which is exactly the reason I am trying to make it policy-tunable and leave the default values in tact)
<bluefoxicy> anyway 3am
<bluefoxicy> I bored the shit out of everyone already, and I need sleep.
<Hobbsee> 3am's a great time to be up till :P
<bluefoxicy> Next time we'll talk about games more instead of security and linux chicks
<bluefoxicy> or wait
<Hobbsee> oh good.
<bluefoxicy> games and linux chicks more instead of security?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> no discussions of chicks, linux or otherwise.
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  let's play global thermonuclear war
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> that would be highly destructive
<bluefoxicy> wikipedia has a list of all the scenarios the computer calculated for that
<Hobbsee> besides, you cant discuss what doesnt exist.
<bluefoxicy> honestly I don't know why guys ask for pictures as proof girls are girls
<bluefoxicy> I knew a guy who always posed as a girl, he got his friend to give him pictures to post to pose as a chick
<Hobbsee> i dont know why guys seem to entertain themselves with the idea of somethign that they're never going to get.
<bluefoxicy> XD
<Hobbsee> hehe - good on him!  :P
<bluefoxicy> Jen used to call people on the phone
<Hobbsee> i'll bet he enjoyed the responses too - then became one hell of a lot more considerate.
<bluefoxicy> she would be like "What's your phone number?"
<bluefoxicy> "I'm really a girl!"  "Pix plz"  "Okai let me set up my camera... google... image... hot girls...  OK picture coming"
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> some guys seem to just believe what they want to believe...
<bluefoxicy> .... XD
<bluefoxicy> flashbacks
* imbrandon dosent care if your a girl/guy/dog/cat or even a rino as long as you are not an arse etc etc etc ;)
<bluefoxicy> hah
<bluefoxicy> rhino
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> hell infact my wife ( soon to be ex but lets not get into that ) can code better than me in c++ but she never gets on irc , hell she barely uses im's or email ;)
<bluefoxicy> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/495771/JACKASS.JPG
<imbrandon> just for those reasons in that article that hob linked to
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bluefoxicy> I know enough girls but it's always fun to react that way :P
<bluefoxicy> guys keep mistaking ME for a girl
<bluefoxicy> sleepies.
<Hobbsee> night bluefoxicy
<imbrandon> gnight
<bluefoxicy> oh
<bluefoxicy> http://www.ocremix.org/songs/Chrono_Trigger_The_Place_We_Knew_OC_ReMix.mp3  :>
<bluefoxicy> SPeaking of girls I know on the net
<imbrandon> ?!?
<bluefoxicy> I was hanging out in the OCR channel and i found out SHE'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN FROM ME   o.o
<bluefoxicy> I wanna go hear Jill sing live, she's got a really, really nice voice, plus she's really nice :)
<bluefoxicy> sleepies time.
<Hobbsee> heh.  again.
<imbrandon> hmm i think its a night to update my blog, i've been meaning to add some kubuntu stuff to it anyhow
* ajmitch is too lazy to have a blog
* Hobbsee doesnt blog either.  gives away too much information
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i used to alot, i just got lazy the last 2 months or so with it
<imbrandon> last post was like march something, and alot of my php code needs updated
<imbrandon> Sunday, March 19th, 2006
<imbrandon> looks like
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: a blog dosent have to be personal , it can be about a subjust your interested in ( like KDE w00t )
<Hobbsee> true
<imbrandon> subject*
<Hobbsee> i usually rss feed read other people's blogs....but i dont write myself.
<imbrandon> and honestly i think blogs *about* something are alot better than blogs about someone personal life ;)
<Hobbsee> besides, google caches everything
<Hobbsee> true
<imbrandon> whats a good qt based ftp client ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: er...konq?
<imbrandon> heh i guess thats as good as any
<TheMuso> c/c
<ivoks> is it only me, or t38modem needs rebuild?
<Toadstool> hi here
<phanatic> morning
<DarkMageZ> it depends on your timezone, it is night here
<phanatic> DarkMageZ: sorry, for me it's still morning :) (11am)
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> anyone here?
<spacey> 727 comments marked as spam
<zul> hey
<phanatic> hi people
<Bluekuja> hello phanatic
<phanatic> hi Bluekuja
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Bluekuja> oh bddebian
<Bluekuja> hello
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian and phanatic and Bluekuja
<bddebian> Hi Bluekuja
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Bluekuja> hello HobbSee
<Bluekuja> :)
<phanatic> heya Hobbsee and bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> bddebian: have some time for a review?
<bddebian> phanatic: Probably.  Give me a few minutes
<phanatic> bddebian: thanks. for reference: bug 32485
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32485 in sysinfo "sysinfo locks on startup" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32485
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic
<xhaker> Seveas: hi
<Seveas> hi
<xhaker> Seveas: i have a request
<Seveas> tell me more
<xhaker> i wish you would grant
<xhaker> i use your repositories for misc stuff
<xhaker> maybe you could add libxft and libcairo with david turner patches
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> that sounds scary, my repositories are used by quite a few people and I don't want to make them use random patches
<Seveas> Can you tell me more about those patches?
<xhaker> i'm using some packages already they implement better subpixel font rendering
<xhaker> many people are already using custom packages because the improvement is rather large
<TomaszD> ah the ones which just *might* infringe cleartype patents. No thanks, until this is sorted out I wouldn't touch this. Or is it ok now?
<Seveas> TomaszD, thanks for that
<Seveas> xhaker, that makes it a definite no
<xhaker> http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2006-05/msg00052.html
<TomaszD> no seriously, I've been on the site just today and it in big red letters it says something about this issue.
<TomaszD> "Note that these patches may infringe the ClearType patents !!. I haven't had the time to analyze them in detail, and thus don't know for sure at the moment if it is safe to distribute them on typical Linux distribution."
<xhaker> the guy uses a FIR algorythm.. he alerts it might.. because obviously he didn't look at any microsoft code
<TomaszD> ah, so purely hypothetical situation.
<xhaker> i'm asking seveas since his repository is the only custom one i use
<xhaker> besides seb128
<TomaszD> xhaker, you know, making your own repository is a breeze
<xhaker> TomaszD: i know.. just thought it might be a good addition to his.. i don't have the capacity to host it anywhere
<Seveas> hmm, that screenshot looks pretty neat
<TomaszD> xhaker, I just might have what you need, but I can't find the howto on making the simplest repository again for the life of me.
<Seveas> I'm going to try those patches
<TomaszD> yeah the screenshots are tempting indeed.
<Seveas> TomaszD, making a repository is pretty simple with apt-ftparchive or falcon
<xhaker> Seveas there are some packages attached to forum posts
<ogra> Seveas, do you think so ? i find the fonts very blurry
<xhaker> ogra.. have you tryed?
<xhaker> i find some more thick.. but more defined also
<ogra> xhaker, i'm preparing as release, no time to recompile the whole desktop locally for a new libcairo
<xhaker> ogra: ;)
<ogra> i find they look blurry like in KDE or XP
<Seveas> blurry is the future
<Seveas> fuzzy logic, fuzzy fonts ;)
<TomaszD> hey it's not that bad.
<TomaszD> maybe a bit too much on the fuzzy side, yes...
<xhaker> let seveas try it and see for himself :P
<xhaker> Seveas: enable autohinter and subpixel rendering to see it in action.. sorry if you already knew
<Seveas> xhaker, I'm not going to try right now, it's at the bottom of a long todo list 
* tuxmaniac is back with a big bang!!!
<tuxmaniac> heya gang
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<bddebian> phanatic: Still here?
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: So wass up?
<phanatic> bddebian: yeah
<bddebian> tuxmaniac: "Bug fixing" as usual :_)
<bddebian> phanatic: What did you want me to look at?
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, hi :)
<Gloubiboulga> can we still upload, freeze is not today?
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<phanatic> bddebian: bug 32485
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 32485 in sysinfo "sysinfo locks on startup" [Normal,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32485
<bddebian> phanatic: Looking now
<phanatic> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian2> phanatic: Uploaded
<phanatic> bddebian: thank you very much :)
<bddebian> phanatic: No, thank YOU ;-)
<phanatic> bddebian: with this fix, i've cleaned my packages :)
<Spec> bddebian: is it normal to only be built for i386? are you asking if the package can be built on other packages? (zsnes/gsnes9x)
<bddebian> Spec: I'm asking if this is normally that case or my upload crashed it :-)
<Spec> I don't know what it's normally built for -- i only use x86 :)
<Spec> actually
<Spec> zsnes is only i386 (packages.debian.org)
<Spec> gsnes9x should be built for i386, m68k, mips, powerpc
<Spec> version: 3.12-8
<siretart> hi folks
<phanatic> hi siretart
<siretart> heyho phanatic
<siretart> I'd like to add a topic about backports to the MeetingAgenda of the TB
<siretart> I've written down my proposal here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReinhardTartler/BackportsProposal
<siretart> I'd love to hear your comments, before I put it to the agenda
<bddebian> Oh, when is next TB meeting?
* bddebian can't keep up
<siretart> 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<siretart> iow: tomorrow evening
<bddebian> Ack
<LaserJock> bddebian: fridge has an ical file you can use to keep track :-)
<siretart> the proposal is basically to open dapper-backports for direct uploads
<LaserJock> siretart: ohhh, nice
<crimsun> (only for core-dev)
<siretart> exactly
<siretart> is this proposal this scary that daniel has to leave? ;)
<ogra> he fears he has to review them all ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, well I would personally like to see core-dev also able do it, or maybe a universe-backport LP team
<siretart> hrhr
<crimsun> I disagree that dapper-updates should be opened before release, though (presuming referring to dapper's release)
<siretart> crimsun: yes, I mean dapper release
<ogra> LaserJock, core-dev doesnt care about backports officially we are only the point of contact for the backports team to make packages buildable on both releases
<ogra> (if main is even required)
<siretart> ogra: in fact, there hasn't been any new backport accepted to the archive for more than one month :(
<ogra> siretart, that a technical prob i think
<crimsun> rationale: If dapper-updates is opened prior to dapper's release, then effectively dapper will release with the updates that should have gone into dapper, which kinda defeats UVF.
<crimsun> (I'm not sure if dapper-updates was mistakenly used instead of dapper-backports there)
<siretart> ogra: So the technical board is the right adress to ask if there is a technical problem, no?
<ogra> siretart, yep
<ogra> but i'm not sure this week will be a meeting
<siretart> ok. then I will ask about that problem there
<siretart> ogra: according to ubuntu-meeting, it is scheduled
<ogra> all other meetings were dropped for release testing
<siretart> I'm just asking mdz
<ogra> so this might be an oversight or not :)
<crimsun> siretart: should I add comments to the proposal?
<siretart> crimsun: please do! I'm happy for every comment
<crimsun> ok
<siretart> I'd suggest adding a chapter 'comments' below the text, but do as you wish
<crimsun> right
<pianoboy3333> What does /dev/random and /dev/urandom do ?
<Spec> they provide randomization
<Spec> , /dev/random is better, it's random
<bddebian> pianoboy3333: They are entropy devices
<crimsun> unless you have a /really/ good reason, you should be using /dev/urandom.
<Spec> urandom is less random, not as good for things such as generating gpg keys
<cmatheson> how does one report a bug if a package doesn't use malone as its official bug-tracker? (epiphany)
<crimsun> (since /dev/random will block)
<pianoboy3333> in general, what do the things in /dev do?
<Spec> they are your devices
<Spec> like, keyboard, mice, harddrive, video card, ...
<crimsun> cmatheson: you should still be able to file a bug against src:epiphany-browser on Malone.
<Spec> oh, and /dev/null is absolutely nothing
<crimsun> cmatheson: granted you probably want to trawl upstream gnome bugzilla first
<cmatheson> crimsun: well, it's a bug specific to ubuntu i think... my problem is that it doesn't respect gnome-text-editor when viewing source... it seems that it's hard-coded to use gedit or something?
<cmatheson> (i haven't dug into the source yet0
<cmatheson> )
<crimsun> cmatheson: then file it against src:epiphany-browser
<cmatheson> crimsun: ok, thanks
<cmatheson> crimsun: hmm, No products matching src:epiphany-browser were found.
<crimsun> cmatheson: no, that's notation for "the source package 'epiphany-browser'"
<crimsun> (following packages.debian.org spec)
<cmatheson> crimsun: oooooh, silly me
<siretart> crimsun: I just answered your comment
<crimsun> siretart: ok
<crimsun> siretart: but that weakens -updates, doesn't it? Afair it's only for fairly non-invasive fixes to critical bugs, e.g., "fails to start".
<siretart> crimsun: -updates was never supposed for newer upstream versions. afaik the policy was only for critical functional but non security related bugs in them.
<crimsun> siretart: so essentially it would be a proposal to expand the usage of -updates?
<siretart> crimsun: I propose to open -backports for more dangerous uploads, which involve newer upstream versions. it could be a prestage before edgy opens in some cases..
<siretart> crimsun: I think -updates is just fine as it is
<crimsun> ah, so it /was/ a typo (cf. $distro-updates instead of $distro-backports)
<siretart> crimsun: updates to -updates are very minimal and 'save' to update.
<siretart> I wouldn't want to have -backports to be enabled by default. -update is, ttbomk
<siretart> argl, now I see the typo, just a sek
<siretart> crimsun: fixed. thanks for spotting
<LaserJock> siretart: I think it is cool, there are often times when I could do a trivial backport to breezy but the current backport policy is sooo restrictive
<crimsun> np :-)
<crimsun> siretart: probably want to do the same for "edgy-updates".
<LaserJock> there was an app that I love (ghemical) that is totally broken in Breezy but works fine in Dapper and the backport wouldn't have been that hard
<siretart> crimsun: right. to be opened after edgy's UVF
<siretart> before that point, edgy-backports doesn't make any sense at all
<crimsun> ("edgy-updates" -> "edgy-backports")
<siretart> crimsun: fixed. thanks again
<siretart> :/
<Riddell> is Emmet Hikory around?
<bddebian> He is persia on IRC
<ivoks> guess not
<ivoks> Riddell: looks like you have some free time :)
<bddebian> heh
<ivoks> and i know one bug that's very easy to fix :) i even provided dpatch :)
<Riddell> ivoks: why?
<Riddell> ivoks: number?
<ivoks> bug #25933
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 25933 in mailman "depreceted funtcion in mailman with python2.4" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/25933
<ivoks> it just needs that patch and that's it
<bluefoxicy> hmm
* bluefoxicy sees if ubuntu has Super Methane Bros.
<Riddell> ivoks: I woudln't feel comfortable uploading that at this stage, it's not my area at all
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> thanks anyway
<ivoks> fwiw, it's tested :)
<neutrinomass> Riddell: Does 'gtksee' happen to be in your area? Because I've uploaded a patch that hasn't been looked into either ;)
<ivoks> neutrinomass: i'll take a look at that
<ivoks> neutrinomass: just give me the number
<neutrinomass> argh, just a moment
<neutrinomass> bug 45828
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45828 in gtksee "gtksee crashes (Dapper-beta1)" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45828
<neutrinomass> ivoks: It's prety trivial actually :)
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> omg... this is an aincent one :)
<ivoks> hm... view thumbs work for me
<ivoks> oh, there it goes :)
<neutrinomass> heh ;)
<neutrinomass> small icons crashes it too IIRC
<ivoks> ok, i'll take a look at it, but first i have to finish something else
<neutrinomass> and there should be tons of crashes everywhere fnumber and fsize are used
<Riddell> neutrinomass: nope, i do kde
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Thanks. It's just a newbie C error (I remember falling prey to it myself so it took like 2 min to spot :) )
<neutrinomass> Riddell: Ok, thanks :)
<ivoks> neutrinomass: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/gtksee_0.5.6-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
<ivoks> neutrinomass: try and tell if it works
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Generally when submitting patches should I forward stuff to debian too, or is that developer work ?
<ivoks> works for me... but who uses this app anyway? :)
<ivoks> neutrinomass: debian probably forgot they have that app :)
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Exactly my thought, it's ugly and buggy :-/
<LaserJock> you know that as soon as you say that there is bound to be somebody pipe up and say, "That app rulz!" ;-)
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Works fine. Want to give me 3 minutes to fix up a .desktop for it as well ?
<ivoks> too late :)
<ivoks> report as another bug
<neutrinomass> ivoks: Hmpf.... I might as well do it though since I'll forget
<bddebian> heh
* neutrinomass will deliberately not assign a Mime type to it to discourage its use :D
<neutrinomass> Ok, this isn't funny anymore. How on earth can you find whether a package has an icon or not? for example, gtksee's sources contain a bunch of xpm icons, but nothing shows up in 'locate' and 'dlocate' ... do they end up hard coded ?
<Spec> uhh
<Spec> dpkg -L gtksee |grep -i xpm
<Spec> dpkg -L gtksee | grep -i desktop
<Spec> or
<neutrinomass> Spec: Nothing and nothing respectively.
<Spec> dpkg --contents <filename.deb> |grep whatever
<Spec> okay, that means the .deb file does not contain the .xpms
<neutrinomass> Spec: But the icons show up in the program ....
<bddebian> Pull the source and do find ./ -name *.desktop
<bddebian> or sometimes *.desktop.in
<Spec> the icons show up in the program?
<Spec> wait, but there's no desktop file for gtksee?
<neutrinomass> Spec: Yes... and no respectively. It shows int he top-left part of the program. Of course gtksee doesn't show in the menus
<Spec> ohh, okay
<Spec> yeah, hard coded i suppose
<Spec> must be
<Spec> there's no picture files in that package :)
<neutrinomass> bddebian: The program has an icon, but as Spec seems to notice as well it must be hard coded. It has no .desktop, but the sources do have .xpms . Anyway.... I'll open the bug
<bddebian> bdefreese@archive:/archive/devel/gtksee/gtksee-0.5.6$ find ./ -name *.xpm
<bddebian> ./icons/eye.xpm
<bddebian> ./icons/eye_2.xpm
<bddebian> ./icons/eye_mini.xpm
<bddebian> ./icons/gtkiris.xpm
<bddebian> ./icons/gtksee.xpm
<neutrinomass> bddebian: Agreed! But non get installed ...
<bddebian> Aye, that's the bug ;-)
<imbrandon> morning  bddebian
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<Spec> well, not only do they not get installed, there's no .desktop file as well (separate bug?)
<bddebian> Nah, I would put in same bug
<bddebian> But what do I know? :-)
<Spec> well, you could put it in the same bug
<Spec> I'm certaintly not going to stop you :p
<neutrinomass> Spec: Well if you are to be pedantic you should open seperate bugs. They will be both fixed in one go though, so makes no real ponit (heh, the other day I opened one bug for no .desktop and another that .desktop is not installed in the correct location :) )
<Spec> haha
<Spec> i did lack of icon/lack of desktop in one bug
<neutrinomass> They got marked as duplicates but I didn't insist too much that they are different issues ...
<Spec> it made me feel dirty
<neutrinomass> Spec:  helps increase your karma though O:-)
<LaserJock> heck, I would put them together. that way the lazy MOTUs have to do both to mark it "Fix Released" ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: ;-)
<bddebian> Hiya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
* LaserJock think about jumping Hobbsee but decides to just wave instead
<Hobbsee> dont you dare, it's too early for that..
<LaserJock> not here it isn't ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: sure it is!  it's only possible to jump hobbsees when they're awake
<bddebian> hehe
<Spec> too early...end of work day :p
<neutrinomass> Any information on whether the backports team is still alive ?
* imbrandon points bddebian to meeting , they are askin for ya ;)
<Spec> what meeting is happening?
<Hobbsee> Spec: kubuntu meeting
* Hobbsee wouldnt be up except for that!
<Spec> bah, kde.
<Spec> <starts war>
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> heh.  i avoided that one yesterday.
<ogra> Spec, do that in #ubuntu-meeting :)
<ogra> (but ware a helmet ;) )
<ogra> *wear
<bddebian> hehe
<Hobbsee> heh
<Spec> wait, wait, you -want- me to start a war during the meeting?.... "Ogra said I could do it! "
<ogra> haha
<Hobbsee> ogra:shameful!  i'll make a note not to let you in!
<ogra> Hobbsee, hey i ship KDE parts in edubuntu :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: but he secretly wants to rip them out in edgy ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<Hobbsee> hehe
<TheMuso> Hey all. Whats the status with UVF requests that haven't yet been uploaded yet? Are they now being left until Edgy opens?
<crimsun> congrats, imbrandon
<Hobbsee> ogra: you're good on screensavers right?  can you help me attack a few bugs that are left, probably in edgy by now?
<crimsun> TheMuso: essentially, though siretart does have a proposal for dapper-backports to be raised in the next TB meeting
<imbrandon> thanks crimsun
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok thanks.
<ogra> Hobbsee, indeed
<Hobbsee> ogra: thanks.  there's a lot of weirdness in the rss-glx screensavers on kde - if some packages are installed, it screws up, if others arent, it doesnt work at all. i'd like to know why
* Hobbsee suspects that she forgot to file a bug for such things.
<ogra> Hobbsee, i also plan to do more active stuff this time, i was rather occupied by ltsp in dapper, will try to weight out my time a bit better this time
<bddebian> Ack, I have to get home.  Later folks
<Hobbsee> fair enough :)
<Hobbsee> bye bddebian
* Hobbsee plans to actually get to do soemthing at the *start* of the release cycle - not just in the middle, then UVF occuring...
<ogra> Hobbsee, and i have no clue at all about kscreensaver so you'll have to cover the whole KDE side here :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> right
<Seveas> MUHAHAHA I nailed bug 26436!
<Hobbsee> Seveas: yay!  which was that?
<Seveas> pygtkmozembed crashing
<Hobbsee> fun
<bluefoxicy> oi
<bluefoxicy> I guess I'll install Dapper Beta 2 i386
<neutrinomass> bluefoxicy: beta 2 is a bit old... you might want to go with a daily build or FL7 (is FL8 out? )
<bluefoxicy> neutrinomass:  I can update-manager it up.
* bluefoxicy clicks the torrent and gnome-btdownload verifies that it's already downloaded properly.
<bluefoxicy> ....
<bluefoxicy> that is awesome.
<Hobbsee> neutrinomass: there wont be a flight 8, i'm told
<bluefoxicy> dapper is out in a week guys.
<bluefoxicy> get real
<bluefoxicy> :)
<neutrinomass> Hobbsee: That's what I knew, and then there were rumours about it ...
<neutrinomass> bluefoxicy: You do have a point there :)
<bluefoxicy> so
<bluefoxicy> developer's day off is over
<bluefoxicy> I guess it's no good inviting anyone to play Armagetron?  :)
<bluefoxicy> (I want to install i386 dapper because 3D doesn't work with the 64-bit via driver)
<neutrinomass> OT: Why aren't all windows partitions mounted by default ?
<Hobbsee> in dapper?  from what i've seen, they are
<bluefoxicy> mounted... ro?
<Hobbsee> mind you, not mounted usefully...
<bluefoxicy> it'd be neat if gnome-vfs mounted flash drives ro
<bluefoxicy> and then remounted rw when you tried to write to them
<bluefoxicy> right now I think it shows them and mounts when you open them.. it's been bouncing between that and straight out mounting them every update.
<neutrinomass> Hobbsee: Wasn't the "only root can do stuff" bug fixed ? :O
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure, last time i reinstalled it was off flight 6,...
* neutrinomass ponders reinstalling with official release ...
<bluefoxicy> shit.
* bluefoxicy guesses glx is .. not ready
<crimsun> (deliberate inversion?)
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody have any recommendations of Continential vs. British Airways?
<bluefoxicy> crimsun:  no, X hanging when armagetron is run, due to mass CPU usage....
<bluefoxicy> hmm... direct rendering is off?  wtf.
<bluefoxicy> driscreeninit failed, ok.  Reload X
<crimsun> LaserJock: both have been fine for mee.
<crimsun> s/ee/e/
<crimsun> LaserJock: did you get sponsorship?
<LaserJock> crimsun: yes, I'm trying to pick between to flights now
<crimsun> cool, congrats
<LaserJock> I'm having a hard time figuring out what the heck the times are
<LaserJock> :(
<crimsun> it'd be awesome if $work allowed me :(
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm taking advantage of being a grad student
<LaserJock> I haven't told my advisor yet though ;-)
<crimsun> I dunno if tritium has to go through something similar, but we have to request extra-US travel permission ~9 months in advance.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Congrats
<LaserJock> crimsun: ugghh
<LaserJock> hmm, is it generally recommended to aviod Heathrow?
* TheMuso wouldn't have a clue.
<LaserJock> me neither, I've never really been out of the US. I'm from a small town and one of the flight has me going through LAX, Heathrow, and CDG
<crimsun> ugh, lax?
<crimsun> that's arse-backward
<LaserJock> that happens a lot for Reno, either LAX or San Fransisco
<crimsun> oh yeah, you are on the left coast. My frame of reference is skewed. :-)
<LaserJock> on flight does do Reno->Houston->Paris
<LaserJock> I'm actually west of LA, iirc
<crimsun> yeah, makes sense if you're in western NV
<LaserJock> I'm having a hard time figuring out the times though
<crimsun> flights are listed in the localtime
<LaserJock> well, the travel agent seems to have confused 12hr and 24hr time, 12:03 is actually 12:03am I think
<crimsun> better call for clarification
<LaserJock> oh, meeting time
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
<pianoboy3333> Does anyone here use the python module 'pynotify'?
<ajmitch> wow, bddebian is going for core-dev
<Laser_away> really? awesome
<Laser_away> must be those Main .desktop bugs are getting to him ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> he just applied for it a few hours ago, I think
* ajmitch decides to rsync a new .iso
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tseng> hi
<bddebian> Heya tseng, how's it going?
<tseng> fine thanks
<ajmitch> hi tseng, bddebian
<tseng> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> bddebian: decided to go for core-dev, i see
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, what's happening
<tseng> bddebian++;
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah, I thought I'd see how much they laugh at me :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<bddebian> I just got kicked out of a software conference so my humility is at an all time low anyway ;-)
<ajmitch> I'm sure...
<ajmitch> so when are you applying to work for canonical?
<bddebian> When they move to the US ;-P
<bddebian> Actually I'd love to but I don't think they could afford me :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<tseng> bddebian: isnt that the truth
<bddebian> Unless of course I get fired for getting kicked out of the conference, then maybe I'd be cheap ;-P
<bddebian> tseng: :-)
<tseng> my benefits alone are an assload of $
<zul> bddebian: going for core dev? hah good luck! ;)
<tseng> haha!
<tseng> ouch
* ajmitch works for peanuts anyway
<zul> heh i would work for canonical if i could work in my boxers
<tseng> you could!
<tseng> i cant work w/o insurance
<zul> i know but if i move to montreal jeff wouldnt let me actually he would
<zul> tseng: you have to marry a teacher
<tseng> ..what?
<tseng> marrying a teacher would put us both in a way high tax bracket at a low teachers pay
<tseng> it would be pointless
<zul> tseng: im in the same boat but im on my wife's insurance
<tseng> i have a good job with good insurance
<tseng> canonical is a stressful job with no insurance
<zul> ive heard
<zul> but you get to travel sometimes
<ajmitch> travel, get locked in a hotel for a week of 12+ hour days?
<ajmitch> sounds like fun to me :)
<tseng> just one of my medications is $800-1000 usd at a time
<zul> still
<tseng> every 8 weeks
<zul> ouch
<ajmitch> that starts to get expensive
<tseng> yeah it does
<tseng> pharmacuticals are a scam
<zul> move to canada ;)
<tseng> hahaha
<tseng> i dont have time to wait for your socialist healthcare system when i am sick
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> zul: What are you trying to say "good luck"? :-)
<zul> im just kidding..
<ajmitch> bddebian: you'll need it
<tseng> i think its illegal to import drugs from canada now
<ajmitch> bddebian: enjoy the grilling
<zul> ajmitch: yeah it was nasty..
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know
<tseng> i must be the only one who didnt get grilled
<zul> i got semi-grilled
<ajmitch> tseng: that's because they like you
<tseng> slomo took a beating
<bddebian> 'cause you DA MAN :-)
<tseng> haha
<tseng> right.
<bddebian> They'll probably beat me to a pulp :-)
<ajmitch> siretart had to answer a few interesting questions
<ajmitch> like "what was keybuk's previous hair colour?"
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> I'd be screwed there
<ajmitch> we were at UBZ at the time
<tseng> it was brown at udu
<zul> is it color or colour?
<tseng> color.
<bddebian> zul: color ;-P
<tseng> obviously
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon.  Congrats again ;-P
<bluefoxicy> direct rendering: Yes
<bluefoxicy> How do I make glxgears spit out frames per second
<imbrandon> thanks bddebian
<bddebian> bluefoxicy: RTFM? ;-)
<bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ man glxgears
<bluefoxicy> No manual entry for glxgears
<imbrandon> bluefoxicy: look for something in --help for like "-iackknolagethisisnotabenchmark"
<bluefoxicy> bluefox@icebox:~$ glxgears --help
<bluefoxicy> Warrning: unknown parameter: --help
<imbrandon> hmm one sec
<bluefoxicy> also I have direct rendering but glxgears eats 100% CPU and is slow :>
<bddebian> glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
<bluefoxicy> 1717 frames in 5.0 seconds = 343.210 FPS
<bluefoxicy> 1838 frames in 5.0 seconds = 367.447 FPS
<bluefoxicy> heh
<imbrandon> glxgears -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
<imbrandon> hehe
<bluefoxicy> how'd you find that
<imbrandon> google
<bluefoxicy> ah
<bddebian> Google, where else :)
<bluefoxicy> damn, why is it so slow
<bluefoxicy> via driver must be shit.
<imbrandon> i goet 450ish on my gforce4 mx400
<imbrandon> get*
<ajmitch> imbrandon: it says it's not a benchmark...
<imbrandon> ajmitch i know, he just wanted to know how to do it ;)
<bluefoxicy> normally glxgears is like 20 times faster than normal performance
<bluefoxicy> if you get +1000 on glxgears DRI should be working right
<bluefoxicy> kind of meaningless but quick and dirty.
<bluefoxicy> I ran armagetron and my X server froze due to CPU load
<imbrandon> ouch
<bluefoxicy> so I'll assume the via driver is not useful :(
<lifeless> bluefoxicy: cpu load doesn't cause freezes. bugs do
<ajmitch> bluefoxicy: it really means nothing - I get ~200 FPS in glxgears, yet I can play doom3 on this system
<bluefoxicy> lifeless:  the mouse moves a bit.... heh.
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  200fps with 100% CPU usage?
<imbrandon> ajmitch true i play ut and such with only 400 to 450 on glxgears
<imbrandon> but smooth on ut and tribes
<bluefoxicy> hm
* bluefoxicy tries composite to see what happens
<bluefoxicy> no composite extension?  o.o
<bluefoxicy> no composite still.. how the...
<bddebian> zul: BTW, what were you doing with kannel?  Did my upload not work?
<zul> bddebian: i was trying to build it at one point
<bddebian> Ah OK
<bluefoxicy> yeah....... xcompmgr -c causes mass CPU load on dragging a window.
<tritium> hi crimsun.  What's the travel question?
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> Hey there bddebian
<crimsun> tritium: I was chatting w/ LaserJock regarding foreign travel. I mentioned that I don't know if you also have to request permission to travel outside the US well in advance (it's ~9 months for me).
<tritium> crimsun: I do, especially to those countries on the "sensitive" list
<crimsun> yeah
<bluefoxicy> Hey
<bluefoxicy> can someone on i386 install wesnoth and see if it has sound?
<bluefoxicy> oh wait.
<bluefoxicy> It doesn't depend on music, nm, wtf.
<sladen> bluefoxicy: sudo apt-get install wesnoth-music
<bluefoxicy> yeah got it already
<bluefoxicy> I am going to spec something dumb
<bluefoxicy> brb.
<bluefoxicy> does LPUbuntu (L-P-Ubuntu) sound good for a gaming version of Ubuntu?  (Lan Party...)
<DarkMageZ> hmm, that could be interesting
<DarkMageZ> what would its main differences be over normal ubuntu?
<ajmitch> yet another ubuntu derivative..
<DarkMageZ> it would get more games into the repos (good games)
<bluefoxicy> DarkMageZ:  writing up a spec, somebody will probably approve it in forever from now but it's fun to throw the idea out there.
<ajmitch> whether they'll continue to have everything done in the same way as ubuntu, kubuntu, etc remains to be seen
<ajmitch> since some people will want things to be supported that canonical may not want to support at all
<imbrandon> true like nUbuntu
<bddebian> WTF is nUbuntu?
* bddebian can't keep up
<imbrandon> hacker/cracker ubuntu
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> its not official and never will be
<imbrandon> http://www.nubuntu.com/
<bluefoxicy> too bad
<bluefoxicy> it'd be nice to have a seed like that.
<imbrandon> it will be arround, just not endorced by conical
<imbrandon> canonical
<bluefoxicy> Yeah
<bluefoxicy> too bad.
<bluefoxicy> it'd be great to have commercial support for something like that.
<ohoel> DarkMageZ: why not just make your own repo for these games?
<ohoel> I'm getting sick and tired of all these *ubuntus o.O
<imbrandon> ohoel: ;) how true
<imbrandon> kinda like all the knoppixes ;)
<bluefoxicy> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/lan-party-ubuntu  There, just a passing thought :)
<bluefoxicy> In 5 minutes nobody will care.  ;)
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<crimsun> bddebian: so...you're gonna have BdDebianIsAGod linked prominently from wiki/$you, correct? :-)
<bddebian> crimsun: Uhm, NO :-)
<crimsun> good thing wiki's public :-)
<bddebian> Gah
<ajmitch> but we'd never do that..
* bddebian withdraws his name
<crimsun> pssht, man, you know you've got good karma
<ajmitch> soon he'll be replacing sabdfl
<bddebian> pshaw
<ajmitch> he's got more karma than all the motus put together
<bddebian> Oh BS
* ajmitch decides to retire
* bddebian wonders why he gets mocked
<Kyral> We love you bddebian
* Kyral hugs bddebian
<bddebian> Heh, heya Kyral
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock and bddebian
* Hobbsee mutters about evil traffic
<LaserJock> I'm with ajmitch, if bddebian goes core I'm going to be able to retire :-)
<Hobbsee> heh
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: surely you're not that old :P
<bddebian> Hobbsee: They are making fun of me
* Hobbsee hugs bddebian 
<Hobbsee> should they be?
<bddebian> I guess if it makes them happy
* LaserJock hugs bddebian 
<Hobbsee> heh
<Kyral> GROUP HUG :P
<imbrandon> lol
* Hobbsee runs away quickly
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you don't like use?
<Hobbsee> if Kyral's saying it like that, then that probably means a mass squish hug - and i'd like to keep all my bones in one piece thanks!
* StevenK_ jumps on Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> sure i do :)
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK_ 
<StevenK> Ow!
* Kyral tele-hugs Hobbsee
<LaserJock> I put deoderant on today!
<Kyral> .....
<Hobbsee> heh
<Kyral> LaserJock: the fact that you have to declare that....
<LaserJock> I combed my hair and everything!
<Hobbsee> Kyral: hehe
* Kyral takes several steps away from LJ
<LaserJock> Kyral: no worries, I'm married
<Kyral> THAT MAKES IT WORSE!!
<LaserJock> Kyral: my wife wouldn't let me do that
<imbrandon> heh
* Hobbsee pities LaserJock's wife
<Kyral> roflmao
<LaserJock> ouch
<Hobbsee> :P
<imbrandon> brb lunch time
<StevenK> Dear me. Scathing today, aren't we?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: whatever gives you that idea?
* StevenK notes there was no point to go to uni today.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: :-P
* Hobbsee also notes that - i learned more in our meeting today than i did at uni.
* Hobbsee also notes the existance of the 10am traffic jam, which almost doubled my travel time.
<StevenK> You do or do not take the M2 to uni?
<Hobbsee> dont - no point
<Hobbsee> from where i live...it's pointless...
<StevenK> Pennant Hills Rd instead?
<Hobbsee> i couldnt get on it till around beecroft anyway...
<Hobbsee> yeah, then beecroft road
<Hobbsee> or via copeland road, beecroft road
<StevenK> My mother used to work in Pennant Hills, I really really dislike Pennant Hills Rd.
<Hobbsee> heh
<StevenK> It's just the M4 in some ways. Something very little happens to one car, and all of sudden, you have total gridlock.
<Hobbsee> the lights were out today - well, they stayed permanently red, turning right...had police and ambulances driving past...
<StevenK> Just like
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> from...ah...boundary road onto pennant hills road
* StevenK watches Hobbsee try and recall street names.
<imbrandon> heheh
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee is a girl!  She isnt good with directions!
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I tend to guess when I'm lost. I usually guess right.
<imbrandon> a girl on teh Intarweb!!111 ?
<TheMuso> Meh. Trains all the way. :)
<Hobbsee> hush imbrandon
* TheMuso is at Croydon. Right near the railway line.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, bus train bus, for an ordinarily 20-25 min drive...
<Hobbsee> lucky
<StevenK> imbrandon: No, Hobbsee is a 47 year old man trying to make us believe he is really a teenage girl.
<imbrandon> actualy they have that convo going on in -offtopic right now becouse some chick has been there all eve
<crimsun> yeah, Hobbsee's a major figure in kubuntu, too.
<crimsun> of course you already knew that having gone through the kubuntu membership process.
<Hobbsee> heh
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: shh....
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well I don't have any other way of traveling, on public transport that is.
<Kyral> Wait wait wait
* StevenK is at Blacktown, close to the railway line, but I have a car.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: my wife finds maps useless but manages to get places just fine
<imbrandon> yes i know , Hobbsee is one of the few i interact with a bit on a daily basis ;)
<Kyral> now there is a difference between Kubuntu Members and Ubuntu Members?
* Hobbsee is an axe murderer
<Hobbsee> Kyral: no, but different people decide them.
<TheMuso> Cars are useless to me. :)
<StevenK> Kyral: Yes. The Kubuntu people are tainted with KDE.
<LaserJock> Kyral: and Edubuntu memebers too
<Kyral> StevenK: I use KDE :P
<StevenK> TheMuso: Can't or just don't drive?
<Kyral> Qt: 3.3.6
<Kyral> KDE: 3.5.2
<Kyral> kde-config: 1.0
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i mostly succeed with that :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: bugs I hope
<TheMuso> StevenK: Can't drive, and don't look like being able to in the forseeable future.
* StevenK would be lost without his car.
<LaserJock> me too
* Hobbsee *is* lost without her car.
<TheMuso> Meh. THink about the environment guys/girls.
<StevenK> TheMuso: We prefer to be on time.
<TheMuso> We do kinda need to take care of our planet a bit more.
<StevenK> As opposed to fighting with Sh^WCityRail.
<TheMuso> One can still be on time with public transport.
* Hobbsee thinks.  She has thought.  She is not going to walk everywhere at all hours of the day or night.
<crimsun> no, you mean we need to take care of /us/. "The planet's fine; the people are fscked." -- George Carlin.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hehe....good point.  how are the trains at the moment?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I dunno.
<TheMuso> Walking is good.
<TheMuso> Trains are fine atm.
* TheMuso uses them regularly.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: right, so they're vaguely on time?
<imbrandon> Kyral: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<TheMuso> I can't remember the time I didn't have one that was not on time, and by that I mean about 3-5 minutes.
<StevenK> TheMuso: To get to work for 9am, I either leave home at 8:20 and drive, or get to Blacktown station at 7:40am and train in.
<imbrandon> brb , lunch time *clocks out*
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: right
<Hobbsee> StevenK: heh, exactly.  mine for uni would be similar
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yes, but you're at a station that has 3 or 4 lines going through it, and Strathfield being very close.
* bddebian bets he gets a +1 from fabbione ;-P
<TheMuso> I do wish the guards would firstly speak more clearly, and announce where the train is going sometimes.
<StevenK> Hobbsee and I have the problem where the stations are one line only
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yeah true.
<TheMuso> I could live with that if I had to.
* StevenK would rather drive.
<TheMuso> In fact, I have. I used to live out at Oakville, which is not that far from Riverstone station.
<TheMuso> Boy it was fun getting trains from there.
<StevenK> Ewww, the Richmond line.
<TheMuso> But I always required someone to get me dwn/back to/from the station.
* Hobbsee just doesnt like people trying to run her off the road.
<LaserJock> hmm, no train here. I could take a bus but that turns a 10-15 min drive into a 1-1.5 hr ride that goes all over the city :-/
<Hobbsee> and dont get me started on the suicidal pedestrians in the evening...
<TheMuso> The Richmond line is not *that* bad.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: That's a feature of people getting their license from Corn Flakes packets.
<LaserJock> lol
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you cant anymore - i had to do mine the hard way...
<TheMuso> Oh well, I have no choice, so thats how I get around.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: You're still a P plater, right?
<TheMuso> You guys should consider coming to SLUG one month.
<LaserJock> StevenK: here, when people from other states take the written test, if they don't pass they just give them back their old license and they can drive home :-)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, reds
<StevenK> TheMuso: I should. Sridhar works with me, and keeps hassling me.
* StevenK thinks back.
<TheMuso> Heh.
<TheMuso> I should get him to prod you some more. :p
<StevenK> Hell, I was on my red Ps in 1999
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that happens here too - for overseas people...
<StevenK> Well, 1998-1999
<Hobbsee> well, tehy get chucked on provisional licences, depending on how long they've been driving, no test...
* TheMuso is glad he will never be driving then.
<Hobbsee> and provisional licences arent very different to normal ones
<Hobbsee> except the numbers of demerit points - i try to drive *very* carefully on double demerit days :P
<StevenK> Back when I was learning to drive, one had no log book, or two levels of provisional licenses or anything.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Red Ps are still 4?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: And when can you jump to greens?
<Hobbsee> yes, 4, and 12 months after i first got the P's, ie july 22 this year
<LaserJock> hmm, I just took a 100 question multiple choice test and drove around the block with a tester and I had a license
* StevenK can always remember when his license expires.
<Hobbsee> yeah.  logs books are painful.  then again, dad loved writing in it, so it was good to keep him happy :P
<StevenK> It's my sisters birthday...
<StevenK> LaserJock: If I remember, the test is 45 questions.
<TheMuso> Anybody else here besides LaserJock going to Paris?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Consider yourself lucky. From next year, the number of hours for an L plater goes up from 50 to 100
<TheMuso> Ouch.
<TheMuso> I guess there is a good reason for it.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, ouch...i would have done about 70 anyway...
<StevenK> Yes. People have discovered P platers still can't drive.
<Hobbsee> besides, they dont look too closely...
* StevenK runs away from Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> mind you, i think that i distracted my tester a bit....
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i've seen some p platers drive - i agree with you
<LaserJock> well, they probably wouldn't let me drive over there, I can't drive on the wrong side of the road too well :-)
<StevenK> Heh
* Hobbsee is glad that the person in particular she is thinking of refuses to drive us again
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, it's 45, you have to get 42 of them, although it depends on the sections
* Hobbsee got full marks for it :P
* StevenK did too.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: it feels weird driving on your side of the road...
<LaserJock> I bet
<StevenK> Two sections, 15 being general knowledge, and 30 about road rules. You can get 3 wrong in the first section and none wrong in the 2nd section.
* Hobbsee has done it once, or twice...
<StevenK> I *think*.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no, you can get one wrong in the second section :P
<LaserJock> I had a friend that went to .au for 6 months. She had to remember to drive on the right side when she came back :-)
<StevenK> Heh.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I suspect you haven't barrelled down the wrong side of Picton Rd overtaking a grandma in anger, then? :-P
* imbrandon dosent drive at all
<Hobbsee> StevenK: never been out that way.
* Hobbsee hates driving to places that she doesnt know
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Two lanes, one each way, winding through forest.
<Hobbsee> hmmm...i think dad drove an equivalent road to that
<StevenK> There's no shortage of them.
<TheMuso> I will travel with anybody that I haven't traveled with before once. I will continue to do so unless I feel their driving is unsafe.
<TheMuso> Mid you, I am probably not the best judge of safe driving.
<TheMuso> s/Mid/Mind
<StevenK> I tend to be able to watch someone drive for a five to ten minutes and be able to tell if they can actually drive.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee just think's it's odd having an L plater telling you how to drive, and her thinking that she's quite right for doing so.
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oh, what?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: was another friend of mine
<Hobbsee> she failed her P's first time, too, which was excellent :P
<StevenK> Hobbsee: When the older of my younger sisters told me how I was driving was wrong, I found the relevant part of the DART and waved it at her.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> lol
* StevenK ponders going home.
<Hobbsee> nah, stay and chat :P
<StevenK> I can chat from home...
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> It should only take me 20 minutes to get there, too.
<Hobbsee> no point leaving now - schoolzones
* Hobbsee hates the evil things.
<StevenK> Bah, they just kicked in, too.
<Hobbsee> especially the one on epping road
<TheMuso> Don't we know it. In our general area, we have no less than 4 schools.
<Hobbsee> yep, exactly - why do you think i came hom earlier?
<StevenK> I pass one going home.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: lucky.  20-25 min drive, i hit at least 7.
<imbrandon> ouch
<TheMuso> ooo nice
<TheMuso> All these 4 schools are in different areas though and not along the same road etc.
<StevenK> I hit one or two.
<Hobbsee> at least, because there are a couple that have multiple schools, so are really long...
<StevenK> One to and from work, one going home from uni and two going to uni.
* TheMuso is glad his uni days are over. :)
<TheMuso> Just got the end of this semster at TAFE, and I am done for studying for a while I HOPE>
<Hobbsee> (beecroft road, pennant hills road - for a bit, that one's not too bad, as you have to slow down for the lights anyway), epping road, and boundary road)
<TheMuso> Unless it is for LPI.
<Hobbsee> oh, and one really close to me, which i cant really avoid :P
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> The school zone near me is very close to my house, so I have the same problem.
* Hobbsee rarely sees students, except for the one near her
* Hobbsee thinks they should declare "suicidal idiot zones" instead of school zones.
<Hobbsee> they're the ones really in danger!
<Hobbsee> epping station, coming towards mobil/carlingford road, from the bridge - people standing on the double white lines, cars everywhere.   stupid people.
<Hobbsee> there's an overhead crossing there, too!  so they have no excuse@
<DBO> Hobbsee, I work on a college campus, I have to dodge students all the time =P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> Ack, I gotta get to bed.  Gnight folks.
<Hobbsee> not in a car though :P
<Hobbsee> night bddebian
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<Hobbsee> sleep's overrated
<bddebian> Hobbsee: No kidding :-)
* Hobbsee went to bed at 2am today
* Hobbsee got woken at 7 for the meeting.
<StevenK> Which meeting?
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> kubuntu community council
<Hobbsee> kubuntu
<StevenK> Ah.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: Ridd*ell called me as a wakeup call :P
<StevenK> Heh
<imbrandon> yea that was too funny, we were all waiting on ya though ;)
<Hobbsee> "hello?  $name?....(echo echo echo)"  "yeah, i'm coming.."
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> Hah, $name
<StevenK> Like it's hard to find out your first name. :-P
<imbrandon> python lol
<Hobbsee> you had quorum - you didnt need them...
<Hobbsee> er, me
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i know
<imbrandon>  /whois Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> er....
<StevenK> That won't do it.
<Hobbsee> hah.
<imbrandon> true but the wiki will or umm the mailing list(s)
<ajmitch> looking at the irc logs from the meeting today will :P
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> true
<imbrandon> heh i lost my logs , speaking of which , you have a copy Hobbsee and i'll stick them on a wiki entry
* Hobbsee was actually awake...just
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm reading a copy now...
<imbrandon> k
<StevenK> The last time I got up at 7am for a meeting was the CC meeting.
* ajmitch doesn't do early meetings
<imbrandon> OdyX was supose to do some minutes for it but i dont think he got arround to it
<StevenK> mdz's spotlight scorched my tired eyes.
* Hobbsee doesnt either ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> next semester i'll demand that they get put later, fi they want me there
<imbrandon> ;)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Nice of you to consider people living all round the world who want to attend the meeting.
* StevenK buggers off home.
<imbrandon> yea even though i'm in a diffrent timezone that was still my sleeping time
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, i know...there doesnt seem to be *that* many people in the US
<ajmitch> TheMuso: but she's an Important Person now
<Hobbsee> besides, freeflying can never make our meetings...
<Hobbsee> hehe...yes, that's the only reason i asked for it
<TheMuso> Oh right
* Hobbsee doesnt know about being an important person...
* Hobbsee sees that they had quorum, and didnt need me there :P
<Hobbsee> well, while raphink was there, anyway
<TheMuso> So what is the purpose of the Kubuntu community council?
<imbrandon> to take the kde people load of the ubuntu cc ;)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the idea was that the CC has to go over so many memberships, when tehy dont really know the people - so the kcc is to decide the memberships, and to vote on kubuntu specific stuff...
<Hobbsee> but not stuff that's still the tech board's domain, of course
<Kyral> Night people
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it became very hard to establish agreement with around 20 people...
<imbrandon> gnight Kyral
<TheMuso> Right.
<Hobbsee> night Kyral
<TheMuso> So if you are a kubuntu member, are you an ubuntu member as well?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yes
<TheMuso> Right.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the way it used to be, Riddel*l would do the kubuntu membership, but the real membership stuff would be with ubuntu members, and CC...
<Hobbsee> so now we do it, instead of them - and we tend to know the people :P
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<TheMuso> Are there really heaps of people applying every couple of weeks?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: in the CC?  there's other business as well
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> But I am just curious as to whether most of that time is now spent on membership applicants.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: well...we had nothing to discuss today in ours...well, hardly anything...so...
<TheMuso> hehe
<Hobbsee> in the CC?  it tends not to be...oh i dont know...
* Hobbsee isnt really at that many of htem
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<Hobbsee> seeing as they like being set during the early hours of the morning - like from about 3am onwards...
<TheMuso> I noticed.
* TheMuso can still remember his membership application, and fronting up to the meeting at 2 AM in the morning.
<imbrandon> ;)
* Hobbsee had a meeting at 7, for hers.
<TheMuso> Back in the days before Launchpad.
* Hobbsee was goign to be cheering for someone anyway, so figured "why not?"
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> it seems weird to me that so soon after that, i get to listen to the cheering :P
* TheMuso should really work on a new Wiki Page.
* StevenK gets home and jumps on Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> uht ohh
* Hobbsee gets up off the floor, and pokes StevenK sharply in the ribs
<StevenK> Ow
* StevenK would have been home quicker, had two things not conspired against him:
<Hobbsee> hehe..whcih were they?
<StevenK> 1) You'd think a van with "Urgent Medical Supplies" on the back would go faster than 45km/h.
<StevenK> 2) Being stuck behind two, count 'em, two L platers on the Great Western Hwy for a few sets of lights.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> yeah, L platers are great like that :P
* StevenK growls.
<imbrandon> ummm ok for us in the US wth is a l plater ?
<ajmitch> learner driver
<imbrandon> ahh
<StevenK> I was going to say, "Someone who can't drive", but that doesn't narrow it down much.
<imbrandon> haha
<Hobbsee> hehe
<freeflying> imbrandon: congrats, you r the first member approved under KC  :)
<imbrandon> thanks freeflying
* Hobbsee wonders why it got so quiet in here
<imbrandon> he its actualy quiet in all the chans tonight
<Hobbsee> it's tuesday...not sure why...
* slackern crosses the room rattling chains
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> slackern: back in the naughty corner!
<slackern> *roar*
* slackern sits down and starts peeling bananas again
<Hobbsee> *waves pitchfork threateningly
<Hobbsee> good slackern
<slackern> *a tendril of drool runs downs slackerns cheek*
<slackern> heh maybe time for a ubuntu-roleplay chan :)
<imbrandon> haha
<crimsun> "the calm before the storm", or rather, "the eye in the storm"
<Hobbsee> hehe
* imbrandon waits for the edgy storm
* Hobbsee is looking forward to that.
* ajmitch is dreading the users wanting to upgrade & complaining it's broken, all over again
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> haha
* Hobbsee offers her pitchfork to ajmitch, to combat the users
<ajmitch> I'll want more than that
<Hobbsee> flaming torch?
<ajmitch> I want to play... global thermonuclear war
<imbrandon> horay install cd ?
* Hobbsee removes the explosives from ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> none of that!
<ajmitch> you spoil all my fun
<slackern> I got to show off a breezy install yesterday to a guy who i actually went to help to reinstall windows, now he wants me to come back when dapper is released and install it on both his machines :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yep, i'm here to make your life miserable :P
<imbrandon> nice
<Hobbsee> yay!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: wonderful..
<slackern> he was mighty impressed of breezy on a celeron 333mhz with 4.3gb harddrive and 196mb ram.
<slackern> but it was kind of painful since his monitor only has 800x600 as a max resolution
<imbrandon> ouch
<slackern> so some of the default applications like synaptic didn't adept to the resolution properly but ended up underneat the panel
<dholbach> good morning motu world!
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<Gloubiboulga> hello dholbach
<dholbach> imbrandon: I saw you were starting Edubuntu/Kubuntu test plans - do you have any ideas for that?
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: how does xubuntu look for release?
<imbrandon> dholbach: i was getting them ready for RC ( mainly the kubuntu ones ) im gonna finish those sections up later tonight
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, not bad, still a few bugs, bug it's in a really good shape
<imbrandon> Riddell: ask me to look into it today at the meeting
<Gloubiboulga> s/bug /but /
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that's my feeling too - i'll do a ppc install later on
<dholbach> imbrandon: nice - when I wrote the test plans initially, I made sure, that they were generic, so that all the distro flavours could use them
<dholbach> imbrandon: it's nice to see some work on that
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> just just a few minor diffrences
<imbrandon> not many at all
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach - do we have a new list yet?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: not yet - sorry
<dholbach> but main is done - YAY!
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yay!
<dholbach> Hobbsee: i'll do a ubuntu-artwork update and look into it after that
<Hobbsee> dholbach: are we going to run into it being too close to release to change all this?
<Hobbsee> okay
* Hobbsee will be out tonight
* imbrandon thinks his xpish theme should be the default kubuntu theme J/K
<crimsun> I'm still awaiting the bright orange warty-final-ubuntu.png. :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i serouisly think i'm gonna package up this theme in a deb though and put it on my website, mainly so i dont have to redo all the little pieces every time i reload ( which seems like once a week lately )
<slackern> imbrandon: got a screensot of the theme?
<slackern> screenshot
<imbrandon> yea one sec ....
<slackern> always fun to see what other people use. :)
<imbrandon> this is a week or so old but still close to the same
<imbrandon> http://imbrandon.sytes.net/misc/snapshot1.png
<slackern> ahh hehe xp mediacenter theme, whats the horrible icon i see on the desktop? :)
<imbrandon> heh i use that to look at how broken my websites are in IE
<imbrandon> thats all
<imbrandon> firefox day to day
<imbrandon> ;)
<slackern> Almost got me scared :)
<imbrandon> i dont use the nero either, i was compareing it to k3b though, its also uninstalled
<DarkMageZ> i don't check my php under IE, solong as the output is w3c compliant, works under firefox & opera, then i'm done
<imbrandon> i check it to make sure its not TOTALY broken, but dont change anything unless its just unuseable
<DarkMageZ> has it ever been totally broken?
<DarkMageZ> ie isn't horrid standards wise, it's just bad
<imbrandon> a few times with the css overlays it has, not often
* Hobbsee_ kills off the other hobbsee
<seth|lappy> that's so violent :(
<seth|lappy> couldn't you just... politely move her out of the way?
<seth|lappy> :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i could...
<Mithrandir> but you were in a rage, so you didn't?
<ajmitch> morning Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> good morning ajmitch
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
* Hobbsee kills off Mithrandir as well.
* Yagisan wants more a more graphical description of how the killing occurred
<Hobbsee> oops.
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<ajmitch> now don't do that
<Mithrandir> hiya Hobbsee.  How's it south of the equator today?
<ajmitch> evening Yagisan
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: damned cold!!!
<ajmitch> FSVO 'cold'
* Hobbsee keeps finding her hands all cold
<Mithrandir> only +25C?
<Hobbsee> FSVO?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: 15C
<Mithrandir> for some value of
<Hobbsee> ah
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I explained that to you yesterday :P
* Hobbsee always forgets thta one :P
<Hobbsee> i know you did
<Mithrandir> +15C is nice and warm.  T-shirt and shorts weather.
<Hobbsee> i blame it on being woken up this morning.
<Hobbsee> maybe for those of you who are not skin and bone...
<Yagisan> G'day ajmitch
<Mithrandir> waking up in the morning is usually considered a good thing, compared with the alternatives.
<Yagisan> I prefer the evening myself
* Hobbsee agrees with Yagisan 
<Mithrandir> heh
* ajmitch should consider getting started on edgy packaging
<Yagisan> ajmitch: do you know if it is possible to check for ssp from a configure script ?
<ajmitch> Yagisan: I don't have experience with it, sorry
* Yagisan needs to learn autotools
<Mithrandir> Yagisan: ssp as in?
<Yagisan> Mithrandir: Stack Smashing Protection in GCC-4.1
<Mithrandir> look in gcc -dumpspecs or something?
* Yagisan mumbles about the cold
* Mithrandir notes it's rain and +9C outside here
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: exactly :P
* Yagisan is +12C outside, and he see's rainclouds
<Hobbsee> oh, so it's gone down has it...great
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yeah. it's dropping quickly
<Hobbsee> brrr...and i'm going out tonight...
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: where ? I'm strongly considering not going shopping today
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: out to a friends place
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: why ? they are all here :-P
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> life > computer
<Hobbsee> there are some here, yes :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> the trouble with that is, is that you start meeting people from the computer, who suddenly exist in life too...and that seems weird
<imbrandon> hahaha
<ajmitch> huh? life?
<imbrandon> or you hear their voice before 7am ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> it was 7.01, according to my phone :P
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> but that too
<Hobbsee> *kills ndiswrapper again*
<Hobbsee> *and again*
* imbrandon hands Hobbsee a wired eth card
<Hobbsee> thanks, that's what i'm using..
<imbrandon> ndiswrapper for sounds ?
<imbrandon> thought it only worked for nic cards
<Hobbsee> no, i was just trying killing it off, seeing if that made the sound work
<imbrandon> ohh
<ajmitch> sigh, destructive wiki gnomes on the loose again
<ajmitch> well not so much destructive, as creating random junk :P
<imbrandon> heh
<ajmitch> ah, and renaming a page or too
<ajmitch> s/too/two/
<dholbach> hum
<dholbach> now hobbsee left
<dholbach> I update http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DhIconCacheChanges
<imbrandon> she said she had somewhere to be tonight
<dholbach> don't make me do it again
<imbrandon> lol
<dholbach> I downloaded myriads of packages and dpkg -e'd them all
<dholbach> so get cracking on those - that's easy stuff :-)
* dholbach hugs y'all
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> k will do, heheh give me something to do today
<imbrandon> jez there is a ton of them lol
<dholbach> if you want you can link the debdiffs there or assign bugs to motureviewers - as you like
<imbrandon> ok will do, and i removed all the uploaded packages
<imbrandon> easier to see whats not done
<Gloubiboulga> all the xfce packages are ok AFAIK (checking)
<dholbach> oops
<imbrandon> remove the xfce ones ?
<dholbach> sorry no
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, are you sure that you shouldnt s/don't// ? :)
<dholbach> <- moron
<dholbach> yeah, was the other way around
<dholbach> easy to remedy
* imbrandon missed something
<dholbach> have a look again, if that list now makes more sense
<imbrandon> ahhh much
<Gloubiboulga> yep :)
<imbrandon> ktorrent is main isnt it?
<dholbach> oh well, then it seems to need fixing too
<imbrandon> hehe np was just wondering .... i got a debdiff for it right now
<imbrandon> dholbach: can you upload main ? http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/ktorrent-dh_iconcache.debdiff
<dholbach> imbrandon: does it still build and make the world happy? :)
<imbrandon> yup ;)
<dholbach> hrm, patch doesn't apply
<imbrandon> i did that a few days ago, lemme redo it
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> imbrandon: and do it before dh_builddeb
<imbrandon> k
<dholbach> imbrandon: for example after dh_installdocs or something
<imbrandon> sounds good
<imbrandon> ahh yea Riddell did a change since i made that diff, redoing it
<imbrandon> ok dholbach here is the new one http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/ktorrent-dh_iconcache.debdiff  , the rest i do today i'll make in one back for someone to upload later tonight
<imbrandon> batch*
<dholbach> imbrandon: you rock
<imbrandon> ;) heheh not yet but soon i hope ;)
<dholbach> imbrandon: uploaded
<imbrandon> kool, yea this time instead of putting "uploaded" on the wiki i'm just gonna remove the line
<imbrandon> will make it easy to read
<imbrandon> or mabey add it to the bottom "finished" list ?
<dholbach> however you like
<imbrandon> [04:42]  <imbrandon> hmmm
<imbrandon> [04:42]  <imbrandon> why would i get this
<imbrandon> [04:42]  <imbrandon> E: Build-dependencies for kbabel could not be satisfied.
<imbrandon> [04:42]  <imbrandon> pkgs missing in repos ?
<imbrandon> [04:43]  <imbrandon> that was with apt-get build-dep kbabel
<ajmitch> imbrandon: they appear to all be there
<imbrandon> hmm
<ajmitch> as in, apt-get build-dep kbabel doesn't throw an error for me
<imbrandon> k
<Gloubiboulga> imbrandon, I'm building the package
<imbrandon> i might need to update
<imbrandon> lol
<Gloubiboulga> it's part of the kdesdk source package
<imbrandon> ahh yes apt-get update seemed to fix it
* imbrandon slaps head
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<dholbach> i would appreciate it, if somebody could file another round of UNMETDEPS bugs
<dholbach> seems there are a couple to fix still
<dholbach> (apart from those that are open)
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile is the bzr branch of the massfile script
<ajmitch> dholbach: how about FTBFS? I think infinity was compiling a list of those
<dholbach> ajmitch: ask him
<magnon> my god, the network applet icons are annoying today :)
<dholbach> magnon: which ones are that?
<magnon> the network monitor
* ajmitch wishes he could find a decent LCD monitor that does more than 1280x1024
<dholbach> magnon: do you mean the space that is too much there?
<magnon> the idle state icon is 1px up and to the left compared to the transferring state ones
<magnon> so it moves all the time :)
<dholbach> magnon: can you follow up on bug 45658 with that information?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45658 in ubuntu-artwork "Human netstatus icone" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45658
<dholbach> so i can pass that on?
<magnon> oh sure
<defrysk> does anyone know about the mdf2iso patch for "file too large" ?
<defrysk> http://developer.berlios.de/patch/index.php?func=detailpatch&patch_id=665&group_id=2545
<defrysk> I found it after I also had that "file too large prob in ubuntu
<defrysk> so I grabbed file2iso from here http://www.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/mdf2iso/ , made .deb with alien and it worked fine again
<defrysk> mdf2iso that is
<defrysk> its a patched version, I hope you guys can also patch mdf2iso for debian, thank .
<defrysk> also read ; http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=438219
<ajmitch> will take a look at it
<defrysk> ajmitch, thanks :)
<ajmitch> usually the best way to get these in is filing a bug on malone
<defrysk> ajmitch, agree but was bust and decided to do a quick post here :)
<zakame> hi all
<defrysk> bust = busy
<Toadstool> hi motus
<ajmitch> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> well that was a quick bug report :P
<ajmitch> not even enough time to get a name for the changelog
<Toadstool> :)
<zakame> hi Toadstool ajmitch
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Toadstool> heya zakame
<zakame> here I am, looking at lubungif4 and cvs
<zakame> *libungif4
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> well mdf2iso was a quick patch, applied cleanly
<imbrandon> someone wanna do a few uploads for me ? ( 4 small ones )
<sladen> imbrandon: should you probably post the names of the packages
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/
<imbrandon> digikam kiso klamav kmess
<imbrandon> if someone has a few minutes
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon pokes at a motu
* tuxmaniac wonders who.
<imbrandon> heh whom ever whats to upload ;)
<imbrandon> wants*
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/    <-- a few debdiffs i just finished
* tuxmaniac going for gnu-india meet! 
* tuxmaniac will brb
<imbrandon> k
<ajmitch> this'll be a painful upload
<ajmitch> 20MB source tarball, 20MB of binary packages
<lifeless> ajmitch: rocking!
<ajmitch> lifeless: ?
<lifeless> 40Mb upload
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> I prefer source-only ubuntu uploads
<sladen> imbrandon: http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/digikam-dh_iconcache.debdiff is empty
<sladen> imbrandon: as are the rest, except for  kdissert-dh_iconcache.debdiff
<imbrandon> most are just rebuilds for Riddell but he took care of them
<imbrandon> a few minutes ago
<imbrandon> the rebuilds use a new kde.mk when built
<imbrandon> no in the diff
<Riddell> imbrandon: I've uploaded, please check back to make sure they all build ok
<imbrandon> its on the build server
<imbrandon> ok
<Riddell> it's in cdbs
<Riddell> ajmitch: why are you uploading binary packages?
<ajmitch> Riddell: debian?
<Riddell> ah, right
<phanatic> hi people
<ajmitch> hi
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee, i forgot to congratulate for kubuntu council membership ;)
<Hobbsee> phanatic: thanks (how's everyone found out???)
<ajmitch> there are no secrets around here
<phanatic> Hobbsee: it was announced on -announce or -deve-announce
<Hobbsee> scary.  i didnt see a major annoucement though
<Hobbsee> ah...
<ajmitch> devel-announce
<Hobbsee> oh, so that did get cross-posted...okay then...
<ajmitch> well, only 8 open bugs assigned to me now
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: congratulations!
<ajmitch> there will be more
<imbrandon> gnight all
<ajmitch> since there are 21 open on f-spot still
<ajmitch> dholbach: still want the source from bug 33393 to be uploaded?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33393 in gnome-phone-manager "uvf exception 0.6 -> 0.7" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33393
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Toadstool
<bddebian> dholbach: ping?
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<ferronica> any one here using ADSL modem ??
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
* ajmitch grovels
<ferronica> which is connected via phone line
<ferronica> need help please
<bddebian> ferronica: Have you tried asking in #ubuntu?
* Hobbsee sends ajmitch to bed!
<ferronica> bddebian:: they banned me :(
<ajmitch> I wonder why
<ferronica> bddebian:: Is there any way to join channel again from last 2 days i am unable to join the channel???
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you can't do that
<bddebian> ferronica: Probably not if you were banned.  That is usually not taken lightly
<ferronica> bddebian:: If i change my nick name then??
* Hobbsee doesnt want to see ajmitch more sick than he already is :P
<ajmitch> :P
<dholbach> bddebian: pong
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes
<bddebian> dholbach: Has anyone hit that openswan patch yet?
<dholbach> bddebian: no idea, not that i've heard
<bddebian> You just don't love me anymore :'-(
<tseng> hah
<dholbach> bddebian: pffft :-)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> You see how bad it is.  I put my name on the list for main and they cancel the meeting. ;-P
<bddebian> Isn't there some utility to rip DOS cr/lf from a file?
<ogra> bddebian, sudo apt-get install tofrodos
<ajmitch> or flip
<bddebian> thx
<ogra> or use vim :)
<bddebian> Well nano converts it but it doesn't save it does it?
<tseng> it doesnt convert it
<tseng> it just understands it
<ajmitch> dholbach: ok, gnome-phone-manager uploaded
<dholbach> rock on
<ajmitch> we'll get this bug count down yet...
<bddebian> dholbach: Who do I credit for that patch?
<dholbach> bddebian: I think it was Dave Miller
<Kyral_Laptop> Morning....
<ajmitch> hello
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<kagou> hi
<kagou> when you ask for  "diffstat of the upstream tarballs" for an UVF process, do i do a "diff -Nru  foo-1.0/ foo-2.0/ | diffstat" on fresh and clean dirs or on dirs with debian modifications (debian subdir ...) ?
<bddebian> kagou: Yes
<bddebian> On clean dirs
<kagou> bddebian: tanks
* ajmitch wonders what he should do with his bugmail folder
<kagou> bddebian: tHanks ^_^
<ajmitch> Msgs:42310 New:31212
<bddebian> ajmitch: Fix them all :-)
<ajmitch> only 30K unread :)
<bddebian> eeks
<kagou> bddebian: last question with version
<ajmitch> I get lots of mail come in & use filtering to see what I need
<bddebian> kagou: Shoot
<kagou> do i put an ubuntu on ? like foo-8.1-ubuntu N
<bddebian> kagou: Is this from Debian or upstream?
<kagou> bddebian: i do upstream (dapper and debian are equal)
<kagou> ufraw is 0.5+cvs20051021-1
<kagou> i make 0.8.1
<bddebian> kagou: No, leave it 0.8.1.  Thx
<kagou> bddebian: thanks see you later
<bddebian> kagou: NP, thank YOU :-)
<kagou> :)
<dholbach> bddebian: YOU ROCK
<ajmitch> what has he done this time?
<bddebian> Bah :-)
* ajmitch knows that bddebian rocks, and that ajmitch is not worthy to lick his boots, but what does he rock for today?
<bddebian> Just 'cause I'm so damn sexy.. ;-P
<ajmitch> oh
<ajmitch> right...
<bddebian> Now THAT is a joke :-)
<ajmitch> you're the one with 3 kids, so you've obviously done something right..
<bddebian> My wife is blind. ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> should I go to bed, or fix bugs?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Fix bugs, what else? :-)
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> bug 2658 may require a UVF exception
<ajmitch> it's old but still in dapper
<ajmitch> ubugtu decided to die
* ajmitch kills another
<bddebian> go ajmitch go
<ajmitch> :P
<bddebian> Shit, can someone from motu-uvf team please look at: Bug #44207
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44207 in libspiffy-perl "UVF Exception Request: libspiffy-perl" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44207
* ajmitch fixes up his mutt colouring rules for the bug mail folder
<dholbach> bddebian: it'S not assigned to motu-uvf
<ajmitch> ah mutt is wonderful
<ajmitch> this view is extremely ugly, but it's highlighting bug mails based on status, main/universe, etc
<bluefoxicy> o.O
<bluefoxicy> guifications is universe?
<ajmitch> yes, it is
* bluefoxicy thought that would be more a standard IM client feature by now
<bddebian> dholbach: Whoops, sorry
<ajmitch> bddebian: bug 45097 is a pain - FTBFS on amd64 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45097 in gnade "[LIBMYSQLCLIENT]  gnade links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45097
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah, gnade has issues :-(
<ajmitch> ok, getting closer to 4AM
<ajmitch> time for some sleep
<bddebian> Yikes.  Gnight ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> yeah, I'll get back to bugs tomorrow
<ajmitch> night
<kane77> not sure if I'm talking to the right forum... I need to know where I find some documentation about a screen cap (PrtScr) as I'm planning to create a program...
<kane77> *possibly a source of how it's done...
<bddebian> kane77: Sorry but this is bad timing, we are WAY busy for release.  A great start would probably be the Debian New Maintainers guide or the package building tips on the Ubuntu wiki pages.
<shenki> sladen: ping?
<crimsun> kane77: apt-get source gnome-utils, and look at the source to gnome-screenshot
<crimsun> kane77: there are numerous utilities; another example is import from imagemagick
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<LaserJock> has the TB meeting been canceled?
<bddebian> Yes :-(
<LaserJock> hmm, bummer
<Gloubiboulga> dholbach, could you upload kdesdk with my wonderful patch: http://gauvain.tuxfamily.org/kdesdk_iconcache.debdiff ?
<Gloubiboulga> it's for dh_iconcache, it builds fine in pbuilder, but it's in main
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: :-)
<Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I've tried, but the package has been rejected :p
<bddebian> I HATE when that happens ;-)
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: you could ask Riddell or raphink too since they are the KDE core-devs
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: that patch doesn'T help
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you just change the changelog
<Riddell> Gloubiboulga: kdesdk has its own kde.mk file
<Gloubiboulga> oh yep, indeed...
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I prepare a new diff
<Gloubiboulga> a chance it's been rejected...
<Tonio_> hello
<LaserJock> ack, how do I get diff to ignore .svn directories?
<crimsun> LaserJock: with the magical -x option.
<LaserJock> crimsun: doh, I was using -I
<crimsun> someone needs to punch that tsume feller right where the spleen is
<tseng> he was a dick on #mono for months
<tseng> before we finally got rid of him
<shutdownrunner> why do I get errors while building a .deb package, whereas ./configure, make, etc don't give any errors. The errors are http://pastebin.com/731819
<allee> shutdownrunner: check debian/rules and the other files below debian/.  For patches and special configure args
<shutdownrunner> allee:could the fact that ./configure detects my system as i686, and dpkg-architecture as i486 cause any problems?
<allee> shutdownrunner: I doubt. unresolved symobls seem to indicates that a lib is missing in linker line.
<bddebian> re
<shutdownrunner> allee:ok. thanks. I thought that they were detected automatically, hence ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<Gloubiboulga> re bddebian
<bddebian> Thx Gloubiboulga
<allee> shutdownrunner: they should be detected automaticly ;)
<bddebian> crap gotta switch machines, brb
<Gloubiboulga> Riddell, I have a new debdiff for kdesdk: http://gauvain.tuxfamily.org/kdesdk_iconcache.debdiff
<kagou> hey LaserJock :) i 'v do it again ... an UVF ;)
<kagou> Bug #45798 -> hope is well described
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45798 in ufraw "Doesn't handle RAW files from Canon EOS 30D" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45798
<shutdownrunner> allee:I guess I'm making some stupid mistake. If I execute ./configure and then fakeroot debian/rules binary I don't get any such errors. But with full debuild....
<allee> shutdownrunner: compare the linker line that fails in debuild with the one of configure;debian/rules binary
<allee> shutdownrunner: have a look into rules what configure options are used
<crimsun> kagou: there's not much point in a uvfe req now...
<LaserJock> yeah, are we pretty much closed for UVFe requests?
<bddebian> Nah ;-P
<shutdownrunner> allee:thanks. I didn't think of it before. I removed CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS) -Wl,-z,defs" that were before ./configure in rules file
<shutdownrunner> allee:I mean I'll try to see what is the exact cause of the problem, but now at least I know where to look for it.
<allee> shutdownrunner: if -z defs is the problem then report upstream.  they miss a lib (see also man ld)
<crimsun> LaserJock: no, that was prior to me reading daniel's latest comment.
<crimsun> geez, I don't touch sound/ for a couple days, and this is what I've had to merge:
<crimsun>  7 files changed, 14 insertions(+), 31 deletions(-)
<shutdownrunner> allee:I don't have that many parameters. Only -Wall (which shouldn't cause any problems), -g (I don't know what this one does) and -O2 (this shouldn't cause any problems either)
<allee> shutdownrunner: back (had to reboot)
<crimsun> shutdownrunner: -g is for debug symbols
<shutdownrunner> allee: you were right about -z . I get " -z: linker input file unused because linking not done"
<bddebian> So, do we have an "official" FTBFS list somewhere now?
<allee> shutdownrunner: these warning are due --mode compile one line up.  Not the --mode link that fails
<allee> shutdownrunner: I'm almost sure upstream just forgot some -l<libname>
<allee> shutdownrunner: propably they are loaded indirectly via other shared libs so without -z defs it's okay
<allee> shutdownrunner: welcome to: proper relibtoolizations are fun ;)
<crimsun> for values of fun that include a blunt spade and a gimp mask.
<shutdownrunner> allee: at least I can create a package now. I'll have to read sth more about cflags. so far plain ./configure --prefix=/usr was enough for me:)
<allee> crimsun:  :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: not that I know of
<dholbach> good night
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<phanatic> hey raphink
<raphink> hi phanatic
<phanatic> raphink: may i msg you?
<raphink> sure do
<raphink> I might not answer, but you may msg ;)
<bddebian> aaaahhhh
<bddebian> crimsun: You bored?
<crimsun> bddebian: I have a presentation in an hour, so no, but what's up?
<bddebian> Never mind then
<bddebian> This ivtools thing is just pissing me off
<persia> My last change to gnome-phone-manager was uploaded (thank you), but missed a patch.  Could someone please upload the patch from bug #46220 to allow the program to run?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46220 in gnome-phone-manager "cellphone.png missing" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46220
<phanatic> 'night all
<crimsun> persia: done.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks a lot.
<zul> did someone get an exception for this? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2006-May/011467.html
<LaserJock> zul: I would think so
<zul> ok...yeah i just checked the logs
<zul> later
<bddebian> re
<ajmitch> of course there was an exception for it.. :)
* ajmitch wouldn't have uploaded it otherwise
<bddebian> Suuure ajmitch :-)
<ajmitch> :P
<bddebian> Troublemaker ;-P
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ah, I wondered who uploaded it
<ajmitch> I may be incompetent, but I'm not *that* bad
<bddebian> ajmitch: I would never say you are incompetent :-)
<ajmitch> not in so many words
<LaserJock> not in any words
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Lazy maybe but never incompetent..
* bddebian hides
<bddebian> j/k bro ;-P
* ajmitch hangs up his keys :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: You can't hang up your keys until you tell the main folks how wonderful I am.. ;-P
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> sure
* bddebian senses the sarcasm in ajmitch's "sure" ;-)
<ajmitch> of course I'll support you
<ajmitch> if I'm awake
<imbrandon_> heh
<LaserJock> sometimes I just think, "If only I could steal ajmitch or crimsun's brain for a bit, oh what work I could get done" :-)
<ajmitch> if you stole my brain, you'd get nothing done
<ajmitch> oh man
<ajmitch> 11494 N   May 23 Chuck Short     (  45) Accepted snes9express 1.42-4 (source)
<ajmitch> 11495 N   May 23 Barry deFreese  (  45) Accepted snes9express 1.42-3ubuntu1 (source)
<ajmitch> fight! fight!
<LaserJock> lol
<imbrandon_> lol
<zul> oops..
* zul stomps on bddebian's foot
<bddebian> -4 wtf??
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> -4 is a Bad Thing to do
<ajmitch> zul should be strung up
<bddebian> bbiam
<zul> yeah i should
<imbrandon_> heh looking at the changelog they are abouthe same thing too ;)
<LaserJock> anybody got some rope? ;-)
<ajmitch> yep
<zul> i think ill stop for tonight
<ajmitch> why would you do that?
* ajmitch hasn't even started for the day
<zul> hehe...its 8pm here
<LaserJock> cat5 should work
<imbrandon_> bnc == stronger
* ajmitch needs some bugs to work on
<zul> *sigh* i know when im not wanted
<imbrandon_> heheh j/k
<LaserJock> I've got some gpib cable in the lab :-)
<ajmitch> seems like I've awakened the bloodlust
* LaserJock gives zul a hug, it's alright dude
<zul> meh..
<LaserJock> crimsun: http://www.spurl.net seems cool
<ajmitch> bddebian: 10340! get those bugs fixed!
* ajmitch spots 41573
<ajmitch> it was python2.3-4suite that was uninstallable..
<bddebian> ajmitch: Really?  Damn, it was 330 a little while ago?? :-(
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> blame the users
<bddebian> ajmitch: Did you ever get through the zope mess?
<ajmitch> sure
<LaserJock> yah know, if nobody used the darn distro we wouldn't have so many bugs to fix ;-)
<ajmitch> at least most of it should work & be installable now :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh you could help me with ivtools
<bddebian> LaserJock: ;-)
* ajmitch grabs the nearest crucifix & holy water
<bddebian> zul: Bah, don't quit homey :-)
* bddebian kills two more
* ajmitch cheers
<ajmitch> I'll never catch up in karma now
<ajmitch> it is impossible
<bddebian> Bah
<bddebian> More mocking
<zul> yes yes it is
<ajmitch> no it's not mocking
<ajmitch> I r teh suck
<ajmitch> ;)
<bddebian> pfft
* ajmitch closes another
<bddebian> ajmitch: Seriously man, help me with ivtools
<ajmitch> it's evil
<bddebian> No shit :-)
<ajmitch> is it even remotely useful?
<bddebian> But I think it's what's killing mxv
* ajmitch uploads another
<bddebian> Has xlibs-pic replaced xlibs-static-pic?
<ajmitch> I really doubt it
<ajmitch> we shouldn't have xlibs-*
<ajmitch> and you can't just replace a static lib like that
<bddebian> Package libadabindx-dev version 0.7.2-6 has an unmet dep:
<bddebian>  Depends: xlibs-static-pic
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> it's old, broken, etc
<ajmitch> my assignedbugs page is shrinking
<bddebian> Should it be removed?
<ajmitch> I don't know, you make that judgement
<bddebian> Nah, Keybuk and/or Kamion always seem to disagree with me :-)  See mgapdesk :-)
<ajmitch> you're the one going for main, I haven't looked at the package :P
<bddebian> You already ARE main so ppfffttt ;-O
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> doesn't mean that I've spent time looking at the package
<bddebian> So you are a bigger man than me :-)
<ajmitch> don't make fun of me being fat ;)
<bddebian> Oh yeah right.  I garauntee I weigh more than you do.  AND I'm old. ;-P
<ajmitch> old, yes
<ajmitch> but probably not heavier :)
<bddebian> <-- 215+
<ajmitch> that's nothing
<zul> welter weight
<bddebian> heh
* ajmitch hands bddebian his walking frame :)
<LaserJock> unfortunately I think I'm up to 235-240. To much grad school and eating at Taco Bell/Wendy's/Jack in the Box
<ajmitch> yeah
<bddebian> Rockin'  My favorites :-)
* ajmitch is close to 250, sadly
<ajmitch> and I'm a short little guy at 6'1" or so
<LaserJock> I think I'm somewhere around 6'1" or 6'2"
<LaserJock> but my brother-in-law is 6'4" and ~ 180
<bddebian> F you both.  I'm 5'9" or so :-)
<LaserJock> :/
<bddebian> AND old :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: jeeze, you are fat :-) j/k
<ajmitch> haha
<bddebian> Uhm where is libluminate6 coming from?
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's not
<bddebian> illuminator builds libluminate7
<ajmitch> Source: illuminator
<LaserJock> bddebian: I was going to say Uranus but that is a going a bit to far :-)
<ajmitch> so the binary package is in the archive with no reason?
<bddebian> ajmitch: afaict
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh
<ajmitch> wonderful
* ajmitch blames those pot-smoking hippies
<bddebian> Yeah
<bddebian> Hmm, no rdepends on it
<ajmitch> bddebian: it'll work best if you subscribe the archive team to it, instead of irc harassment
<ajmitch> RC is awfully close, they probably don't want to be disturbed :)
<bddebian> It's not a bug that I know of.  I was just digging through apt-cache -i unmet output
* ajmitch contemplates uploading zope
<bddebian> Yeah LOTS of zope crap in there ;-P
<ajmitch> hey
<ajmitch> it'd fix bug 26103
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 26103 in zope2.8 "Zope2.8 postinst precompiles using python2.4 instead of python2.3" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/26103
<ajmitch> bddebian: now there aren't *that* many zope bugs still open
<bddebian> Gawd I hate that versioned dependent crap.  When you bump something a buildX or ubuntuX version it breaks dependencies :-(
<bddebian> ajmitch: :-)
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm pretty sure you want to follow ajmitch's suggestion RE: libluminate6.
<ajmitch> you'd tell bddebian to follow my advice? :)
<ajmitch> heh
<crimsun> (i.e., make sure it should be removed, then sub archive)
<bddebian> THERE IS NO BUG
<bddebian> Should I report one??
<crimsun> well, it's either bug kamion/mdz, or file a bug.
<LaserJock> file the bug!
<ajmitch> or see why it's still in the archive
* bddebian kills himself
<LaserJock> nooooooo
<bddebian> ajmitch: How would I go about doing that?
<ajmitch> research
<ajmitch> the lib version is one that's only been in dapper
<ajmitch> so we have a binary package without matching source
* ajmitch is incorrect
<ajmitch> source is still in the archive
<ajmitch> launchpad lists it as 'superseded', not removed
<bddebian> Where do you see that?
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/illuminator/
<bddebian> I'm already there.  What does that tell me?
<ajmitch> just what I told you
<ajmitch> that 0.9.1-3 was in dapper, and is superseded
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> So...?
<ajmitch> so yes
<bddebian> So yes what?
<LaserJock> yeah, I haven't quite figured out what superseded means, I take it to mean that it is a source package that is not the newest but hasn't been removed from the archives yet
* ajmitch would think so
<ajmitch> not removed since there are still binaries in the archive built from it
<bddebian> But my question is still why?
<bddebian> And afaict libluminate7 isn't a conflicts/replaces for libluminate6 unless I missed something?
<ajmitch> because that's how it all works?
<crimsun> I don't see a c/r against 6
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> Guys, I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, I'm trying to understand.
<crimsun> bddebian: apt-cache show libluminate7 |grep Conf
<bddebian> crimsun: Nothing
<crimsun> bddebian: so as far as we know, libluminate7 doesn't c/r 6, as you said.
<crimsun> judging from the changelog on packages.qa.d.o for illuminator 0.10.0-1, libluminate7 just gets rid of the dvips b-d-i
<crimsun> the chain goes back to Bug #337378: illuminator: FTBFS: Unsatisfiable Build-Depends on dvips
<bddebian> Right, OK
<ajmitch> alright, only zope-docfindertab, zope-cmfsin, zope-ttwtype and zope-cmfphoto have unmet deps for zope ;)
<ajmitch> all of which because they want an older CMF API
* ajmitch will check them after lunch
<bddebian> So my question still remains.  What would be the proper way to ask about getting that binary removed?
<crimsun> I would politely ping kamion about it (since I don't know if infinity or keybuk have the ability to remove)
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you need the binary removed?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Need it a little strong.  Just trying to clean up the unmet deps
<LaserJock> so far I've asked for source packages to be removed but the binaries remain
<LaserJock> I think
<bddebian> Well that makes no sense to me but obviously I am just a clueless pain in everyones ass :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: don't woryr, you've still got 2 weeks until the TB meeting to bribe everyone ;)
<bddebian> Yeah, I guess maybe it was stupid of me to put my name on the list
<ajmitch> no it wasn't
<bddebian> Boy, rscheme just plain sucks
<ajmitch> anything scheme just sucks
* ajmitch closes another
<ajmitch> sigh, another f-spot bug opened
<DarkMageZ> you can just tag most of them upstream cant you?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> but it's another bug to look into
<bddebian> Is this the correct syntax for a depends?   wzdftpd (>= 0.6.1), wzdftpd (<< 0.6.2)
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> Thank you
<bddebian> Is multiseat even a valid package anymore?  Should I just replace hotplug with udev and module-init-scripts?
<bddebian> Uhm, is there a Squirrel SQL package?
<crimsun> squirrel or squirrelmail?
<bddebian> Dunno, I'm confused
<bddebian> Bug #30079
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30079 in gdk-pixbuf "Squirrel SQL Install fails  GdkPixbuf-CRITICAL" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30079
<crimsun> bddebian: NeedsInfo, req:Please try 2.2 final http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=28383&package_id=29193&release_id=410063
<crimsun> (no, we don't have squirrel-sql)
<bddebian> crimsun: So how can he (we?) say it's a bug in gdk-pixbuf and not squirrel-sql?  Ohh, nm
<crimsun> bddebian: more than likely it has naught to do with gdk-pixbuf
<bddebian> Well I was thinking of rejecting it but is that rude?
<ajmitch> ok..
* ajmitch at work, finally
<ajmitch> for my 2 hours of lab demonstrating stuff
<ajmitch> where I sit on irc ;)
<bddebian> Heh
<crimsun> rockin, ajmitch ;)
<ajmitch> & fix bugs
<ajmitch> I can handle that
<crimsun> bddebian: I would leave it NeedsInfo and just ask the submitter to try 2.2 final.
<bddebian> crimsun: OK, thx
<ajmitch> bddebian: under 10300 yet?
* ajmitch opened another 4 today for unmet deps, will fix them tonight
<ajmitch> hm, 10349, going up
<bddebian> Yep :-(
<bddebian> And I'm losing steam :'-(
<ajmitch> don't worry
<ajmitch> just get plenty of caffeine, lock yourself away from work, wife & kids
<ajmitch> and then come out after release
<bddebian> Heh, I wish :-)
<imbrandon> well let the wife in once in a while ( that help me get more "steam" ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> brb gonna restart x
<imbrandon> ohhhh logging in reminded me, who handles the brandon@ubuntu/members/imbrandon type hostmasks , i get one of those cool ones now huh ? lol ( no biggie just wondering whom to bug later )
<LaserJock> imbrandon: Seveas does that
<imbrandon> kool , i'll catch him online sometime, like i said , just kinda curious
* ajmitch just isn't cool, no hostmask at all
<imbrandon> logging back into irc reminded me when it set my mask
<bddebian> ajmitch: Me either bro :-)
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> I didn't think it was all that interesting, but everybody else was doing it :-)
<imbrandon> mine is just a generic one nalith set a few months ago becouse someone was trying to DDoS me or some shiznit
<LaserJock> yeah, apparently that sort of thing happens so that's why I've got a mine
<LaserJock> plus it sort of helps people identify who should at least have basic knowledge of ubuntu
<LaserJock> I think anyway
<imbrandon> not like i dont post diff / screenshots / other tidbits to ubuntustuff.sytes.net now and then anyhow thats on the same IP ;)
<imbrandon> i realy should upload that stuff to my normal webhost to avoid that huh ? lol
<imbrandon> just to easy to copy it to /mnt/server/var/www somtimes though
<imbrandon> *thinks about ftpfs ...hmmm* nah i need to et some real work done
<bddebian> Well gnight gents
<LaserJock> I'm off too
<imbrandon> gnight guys
<chillywilly> wassup dudes?
<imbrandon> 'ello
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> it feels like it's about beer o'clock
<Lathiat> Wed May 24 13:25:55 WST 2006
<Lathiat> i wish
<Lathiat> 5 mroe hours
<ajmitch> heh
<Lathiat> man ive got this lovely C program here which stores its data by writing binary structs directly into data files
<Lathiat> its running on redhat9
<Lathiat> doesnt work on debian or ubuntu
<ajmitch> that sounds sane
<Lathiat> and especially not on 64bit
<ajmitch> I heard MS Word was like that :)
<Lathiat> even if i statically compile it on the machine it works on
<Lathiat> which is a bit crak
<ajmitch> just slightly
<dholbach> good morning motu world!
<Gloubiboulga> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
* ajmitch needs more karma :)
<ajmitch> ah well, I've got a few packages to upload tonight ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: how's it going?
<dholbach> ajmitch: overlong todo list, but i have some coffee here, and got myself some strawberries and grapes from the grocery store, so I'm good - thanks
<dholbach> how are you?
<ajmitch> I'm alright, just been at the pub after work for a couple of beers :)
<ajmitch> got a friend's birthday to celebrate tonight, and then back to dapper-fixing
<dholbach> ah nice
<dholbach> enjoy yourself!
* ajmitch will :)
<ajmitch> I hope the release-week isn't too stressful for the distro team :)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: funny you.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: surely you'll all be sitting back & relaxing, since there'll be nothing to fix after RC? ;)
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: yeah, I'll just go on a week's vac to hunt flying pigs.
<ajmitch> heh
<Mithrandir> I've heard their meat is delicious
* dholbach hugs Mithrandir
* Mithrandir hugs Daniel back
<dholbach> can I go with you? I'll carry your rifle and everythin
<Mithrandir> sure
<Mithrandir> I'm sure Matt won't object
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ajmitch> oh dear, SoC results are out
* ajmitch wants to see the list of accepted ubuntu projects
<Hobbsee> hi all
<ajmitch> hello
* Hobbsee growls at telstra
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee and runs off before he's poked back
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir
* Hobbsee attacks Mithrandir with the big stick from the physics prac
<ajmitch> I guess I need to start working on this SoC project then.. how much beer do I need to bribe my mentor with?
<DarkMageZ> what did telstra do today? or just hating them in general?
* Mithrandir grabs the big stick and swings Hobbsee about.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: depends on what kind of beer you're bribing with.
<Hobbsee> argh!
* Hobbsee goes sailing around the room
* Mithrandir puts Hobbsee down again, carefully.
<Mithrandir> can't have you tumble into a wall or something.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> thankyou.
<Mithrandir> :-)
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: cable went down this morning - ie, no internet, no phone.  great.
<DarkMageZ> :O you don't have a standard home phoneline?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: not anymore
<DarkMageZ> lucky, those sob's won't provide me with adsl without paying the monthly phone line rental...
<ajmitch> sounds usual
<DarkMageZ> and they refuse to provide cable
<DarkMageZ> yeah, but still
<Hobbsee> ah, this is cable, not adsl - so we pay for the cable connection, then the phone is VOIP...
<DarkMageZ> exactly, you are lucky
<Hobbsee> we cant get adsl here - or couldnt at the time we got cable, anyway - not sure about now
<Hobbsee> ah...i get it...
* Hobbsee is slow today :P
<DarkMageZ> if telstra had competition... they wouldn't be so greedy
<Hobbsee> true
* Hobbsee searches for interesting food
<zakame> hi all
<Gloubiboulga> hi zakame
<zakame> hi Gloubiboulga
<phanatic> hi people
<phanatic> hey zakame, you accepted to soc? :)
<phanatic> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<MiniJames> james@jameslaptop:~$ sudo apt-cache search realplay
<MiniJames> kmplayer-konq-plugins - KMPlayer plugin for KHTML/Konqueror
<MiniJames> realplayer - Real Player (installer)
<MiniJames> james@jameslaptop:~$ sudo apt-get install realplayer
<MiniJames> Reading package lists... Done
<MiniJames> Building dependency tree... Done
<MiniJames> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
<tseng> please dont do that here
<MiniJames> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
<MiniJames> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
<MiniJames> or been moved out of Incoming.
<MiniJames> Since you only requested a single operation it is extremely likely that
<MiniJames> the package is simply not installable and a bug report against
<MiniJames> that package should be filed.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o tseng]  by ChanServ
<MiniJames> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+m]  by tseng
<tseng> pastebin.ca please.
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-m]  by tseng
<MiniJames> ^^ sorry
<MiniJames> ok :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o tseng]  by tseng
<MiniJames> http://pastebin.com/734821
<MiniJames> :)
<MiniJames> Im using ubuntu dapper, having big problems installing real player
<MiniJames> its clear why :)
<MiniJames> thing is, ive no idea what to do from here
* ajmitch looks for more to upload
<MiniJames> hm
<MiniJames> can someone help me
<MiniJames> xlibs dependencies seem to be a bit skrewed in dapper
<spacey> xlibs doesn't exist anymore afaik
<MiniJames> lol ouch
<MiniJames> im trying to install real player on dapper
<MiniJames> any ideas?
<imbrandon> did you follow the instructions on http://wiki.kubuntu.org/RestrictedFormats
<MiniJames> ive just read them ;)
<MiniJames> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats#head-848295cba1b3591a4b4a0dbea5844fd5d2894b6b
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get install libstdc++5
<imbrandon> wget -c ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/pool/main/r/realplay/realplayer_10.0.7-0.0_i386.deb
<imbrandon> sudo dpkg -i realplayer_10.0.7-0.0_i386.deb
<MiniJames> already done it
<MiniJames> about 5 mins ago
<MiniJames> just beat you to it ;)
<MiniJames> but, thats alot for the effort
<MiniJames> great support :)
<MiniJames> really appreciated
<thierry_> Hi, is it too late to upload my patch in bug 4587 ? It has been reviewed but since it's in main, the reviewer couldn't upload it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4587 in bittornado "[PATCH]  bittornado absolute icon path and specs problems" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4587
<ajmitch> any patches for main have to be approved by mdz, and RC is coming out Real Soon Now
<ajmitch> so it's probably too late
<ajmitch> minor fixes like that have to wait
<thierry_> ajmitch : k, but could you assign it to yourself or to a MOTU for dapper+1 ? It's been about 3-4 months that it's there waiting for uploading and I don't want it to wait an other 3 months
<ajmitch> considering that it was unassigned to anyone, it's not surprising that noone uploaded it
<thierry_> ajmitch : k, I should have assigned it to MOTU?
<ajmitch> being main, I'm not sure what decent way there is, apart from asking someone who's got main upload rights
<ajmitch> for universe, you assign to motu-reviewers
<thierry_> k... but now if I want it to get uploaded for dapper+1, to who do i assign it?
<ajmitch> at the moment, noone
<ajmitch> I can look at it for edgy
<thierry_> k then I'll come back asking for that when dapper will be out
<siretart> I don't see too much point in assigning any bug to a team, atm. Subscribing teams have the same effect and doesn't make the false impression that anyone was actively working on that task
<siretart> morning, btw ;)
<ajmitch> hey siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<ajmitch> yes, that's why mdz larts you if you assign bugs to ubuntu-archive rather than subscribing them :)
* Hobbsee waves
<ajmitch> we should probably do the same for motu-uvf & motu-reviewers
<Hobbsee> oh, is that why?  i see...i see...
<siretart> ajmitch: I see only one advantage in using the maintainer field: I can sort them away with procmail rules
<siretart> ajmitch: but in general, I agree with that
<ajmitch> yes, I'm finding mutt's filtering to be a great help
<ajmitch> colouring bug mails based on various criteria
<siretart> interesting idea: use coloring :)
<ajmitch> it's an eyesore, but effective
<kagou> hi
<kagou> slomo: if you have time can you have a look at Bug #45798 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45798 in ufraw "Doesn't handle RAW files from Canon EOS 30D" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45798
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: boooo
<bddebian> Howdy tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: what was the flood you were talking about yesterday?
<bddebian> Oh, had a drain pipe in a sink come loose :-(
<ogra> fun
* tuxmaniac thought some storm or something of that sort :D
<ogra> plumbig is great fun, isnt it ? :)
<ogra> *plumbing
<bddebian> ogra: No :-)
<ogra> i know :)
<selinium> Hi there, I was wondering if maybe a MOTU lug might be arranged in London that I could attend for some mentoring?
<Spec> wellll, if you pay me to fly out to london.....even though I'm not a MOTU.... O:)
<bddebian> heh
<selinium> Spec: :) I kinda figured there must be some MOTUers in London... :)
<bohan_> hi, is the appending of the "ubuntu" string in debian package names entirely automatic or is there something to do explicitly?
<dholbach> bohan_: needs to be done manually and needs to be done, if we change things in the debian package
<tseng> it is done (manually) when an ubuntu motu adds changes to the debian package
<tseng> uh
<tseng> dholbach: *hugs*
<siretart> could someone with amd64 tell me the output of 'dpkg-divert --list | grep ia32-libs', please?
* dholbach hugs tseng back
<tseng> ~$ dpkg-divert --list | grep ia32-libs
<tseng> nothing
<siretart> interesting
<dholbach> siretart: I can't in the middle of an install, sorry.
<dholbach> ah ok
<siretart> thanks, tseng
<tseng> np
<siretart> I get diversion of /usr/bin/ldd to /usr/bin/ldd.amd64 by ia32-libs
<bddebian> Heya dholbach, tseng, siretart
<tseng> well
<tseng> i dnt have ia32-libs
<tseng> this is a server
<siretart> oh.
<siretart> hm
<dholbach> give me a sec until it's installed and rebooted
<bohan_> thanks dholbach and tseng
<dholbach> siretart: hum, empty here as well
<siretart> dholbach: interesting
<siretart> I'm biten by bug #46285 and try to investigat it
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46285 in ia32-libs "pre-installation of the package is trying overwrite '/usr/bin/ldd' with  `/usr/bin/ldd.amd64'" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46285
<siretart> it seems that I cannot remove the diversion
<dholbach> Good night fellas.
<siretart> gn8 daniel!
<bddebian> Gnight dholbach
<crimsun> 'night daniel
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<dholbach> night Reinhard, Barry, Daniel :)
<bddebian> Later folks
<cbx33> nn bddebian
<selinium> I threw this question out earlier today, I wasz wondering if there were any London based MOTUers who could meet at / host a lug so some London based hopefuls can get some hands on mentoring.... :)
<cbx33> selinium, oooh nice idea
<selinium> cbx33: Cheers! :)
* cbx33 is a one day MOTU hopeful...
<cbx33> need some mentoring
<selinium> cbx33: Are you London based?
<cbx33> selinium, have you read LaserJock's packaging guide
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> I'm southampton based
<selinium> damn...
<selinium> I like Southhamton :)
<cbx33> heheh
<selinium> I have been through the MOTU pages. :)
<crimsun> I suppose the best online solution is simply to ask questions.
<cbx33> indeed it is
<cbx33> all of my questions have been answered well
<cbx33> I suppose on my part it was just getting to grips with it quicker
<cbx33> like having someone teach me
<cbx33> and could....*snigger* hold my hand through it
<cbx33> by I suppose in the end you learn more by trying it out yourself
<selinium> THere are a bunch of Ubunteros heading up to the LugRadio live...  http://tinyurl.com/zhwmj
<cbx33> and the guys here anre so helpful
<cbx33> selinium, yeh I won;t be able to make it unfortunately
<cbx33> one ubuntu member
<cbx33> ??
<Spec> hey...i have me a question
<Spec> I'm building this package for someone, and it requires libnotify >= 4.0, but dapper uses 3.2
<Spec> debian unstable uses 4.0, and if I install libnotify-dev, ignoring the dependency on libnotify1 (I only want the dev packages), I can compile this thing
<selinium> cbx33: Only eight people so far.. :)
<selinium> :)
<selinium> :(
<Spec> but, how would I accomplish the same thing in the pbuilder environment?
<LaserJock> Spec: you want to have other packages be avialable in the pbuilder?
<Spec> not quite
<Spec> i need to force an ignore-depends for a specific package
<Spec> I'm thinking about just rebuilding debian's libnotify-dev to not have a dependency on libnotify1
<LaserJock> yeah, I have no idea if you can make pbuilder ignore dependencies
<Spec> i mean, in all respects -- it's a very bad idea :p
<Spec> LaserJock: got it without using pbuilder
<Spec> good enough, Not My Package! (tm)
<LaserJock> Spec[x] : hehe
<ajmitch> morning
<carthik> Hi ajmitch, top of the day to you
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> bddebian: hi! I have a question for you
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you know how /usr/bin/env works?
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> I'm trying to adjust what #!/usr/bin/env python executes
<bddebian> What does it execute now?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure, but it isn't the python I want :-)
<LaserJock> this is on my mac
<LaserJock> so I've got like 3 different pythons running around
<bddebian> You want alternatives then?
<LaserJock> yeah, well basically I have a python script that uses #!/user/bin/env python
<LaserJock> and I want it to execute a specific python I have installed
<bddebian> Call python2.4 specifically then ;-P
<LaserJock> well, but I'm not the only one using the script so I don't want to mess other people up just cause I'm using the stupid mac
<bddebian> env just sets environment variables doesn't it?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so I tried using export python= but that didn't work
<bddebian> what is /usr/bin/python symlinked too?
<LaserJock> to the one I don't want ;-)
<LaserJock> maybe I just need to switch the symlinks
<LaserJock> but I wanted to just be able to do an alias or something to run the script
<LaserJock> bddebian: this is my first programming project and I'm failing on the first day :/
<bddebian> I would think about all you could do is either create a local symlink or something unless you update-alternatives
<bddebian> LaserJock: bbias, gotta get the kids in bed
<LaserJock> bddebian: I gotta get home too
<crimsun> universe iconcache almost finished. :-)
<ogra> wow
<ajmitch> hey ogra
<bddebian> It wasn't finished already?
<crimsun> nope
<ogra> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, jaldhar
<ajmitch> what's up, bddebian?
<ajmitch> got the bug count down yet?
<bddebian> No, I'm failing today :-(
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> hopefully we can still get a few fixes in universe before release
<bddebian> Any idea how I remove my name from the core-dev team?
<ajmitch> why would you do that?
<ajmitch> if you *really* think you should, ask #launchpad
<ajmitch> applying for main doesn't mean you need to know all there is about development..
<ajmitch> if that were true, I'd have never got in
<bddebian> It's not that
<ajmitch> what is it then?
<bddebian> I think my "personality" is not conducive to the group
<ajmitch> ?
<crimsun> oh shush, barry. You'd fit right in.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Come on man, I even piss YOU off :-)
<ajmitch> yeah, but that's because i'm a grumpy old fart who bitches & moans about everything
<bddebian> Bah
<ajmitch> bddebian: being in main doesn't mean you can't piss people off
<bioeng> Hi everyone
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't do it
<bddebian> LaserJock: Don't do what?
<ajmitch> don't remove your name
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> bddebian: you do and I'll never talk to you again ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you won't break main too badly
<bioeng> So I was directed here
<bioeng> Is Ubuntu good for embedded?
<bddebian> bioeng: Welcome.  I don't know that anyone has tried an embedded Ubuntu
<bioeng> I am wanting to specialize in embedded systems for my EE degree
<bioeng> that and power systems
<ajmitch> how embedded do you mean?
<bioeng> I'm exploring the field right now
<bioeng> putting computer systems in different devices
<bddebian> ajmitch: What bugs are worth looking at this point in the game?
<ajmitch> I don't know
<ajmitch> I've been focusing on my areas of interest (zope, python)
<ajmitch> and my debian packages
<ajmitch> trying to get at least the things I care about into shape
<bioeng> I'll say it again:  The people on IRC are SO much better than the idiots at my school
<bioeng> I mean, the people I go to school with are so uninspiring
<LaserJock> ajmitch: is the python MOTU team active?
<ogra> LaserJock, yes, it was just talking to you :P
<LaserJock> ogra: hehe
<bddebian> bioeng: That's true of most of the planet unfortunately :-)
<ogra> together with the zope team :)
<LaserJock> ogra: technically only half of the team
<bioeng> I wonder if UIUC is actually a good school to go to
<ogra> who is the other half ?
<bddebian> bioeng: University of Illionis?
<bddebian> Err Illinois even
<ajmitch> well the zope team consists mainly of DDs
<ajmitch> & the work is mostly done on the debian side
<bioeng> Yes
<crimsun> bioeng: uiuc is an excellent school
<bddebian> U of I is a great school
<bddebian> That's where I wanted to go and ended up at Purdue instead
* ajmitch tries to remember who else was in the motu python team :)
<bioeng> My parents made me go to Southern Illinois University Carbondale because it was nearby
<bioeng> Of course, it doesn't have a good reputation
* ogra remembers he was in there once ...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: herve
<ajmitch> ogra: you used to care about universe at one point ;)
<ogra> yeah, when i had time
<bddebian> haha
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I'm going to make him care again for Edgy :-)
<ajmitch> now you just have stress & edubuntu
<ajmitch> LaserJock: good luck
<bddebian> See, another reason I should take my name off the list :-)
<ajmitch> you know that he'll just get more tasks piled on him
<LaserJock> ajmitch: it'll be easy since I'll probably get to do the work :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: you're not paid & whipped by canonical
<zakame> hi all
<ogra> ajmitch, herve !
<bddebian> ajmitch: Oh, hehe
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<zakame> hi bddebian ajmitch ! :D
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, I don't see him round much
<ogra> yep
<bioeng> I'm not sure that I could be an engineer
<ogra> me neither
* LaserJock bites his lip about what "real" scientists say about engineers ;-)
<crimsun> bioeng: there is no try. Either be, or not.
<ajmitch> I suppose I should start on the SoC project sometime today ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: doing, or mentoring?
<bddebian> Wow, crimsun gets all philosophical :-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: doing
<ajmitch> I'm not special enough to be a mentor :)
<bioeng> Then I am
<LaserJock> bddebian: he's been philosophical a lot yesterday and today :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: it's called sleep deprivation
<bddebian> heh
<zakame> whoa
<crimsun> that and a $lot of funding at stake.
<bioeng> But is my school a bad school?
<crimsun> being grilled by a dozen sponsors is /not/ what I consider "fun."
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so I get to join the ranks of eager students wanting to get involved in open source projects
<bddebian> bioeng: Southern?
<bddebian> crimsun: sponsors?
<ajmitch> students like desrt, mjg59 :)
<zakame> heh
<crimsun> bddebian: people who pay for research to continue
<bddebian> crimsun: Ah, I didn't know you were doing research
<ajmitch> he's an academic
<bddebian> Ah, no wonder he laughs at me too then :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<zakame> ooh, a grave cvs bug...
<zakame> er ECHAN
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> details..
<zakame> debian #368681
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 368681 in cvs "Subject: cvs: does not flag conflicted copies anymore" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/368681
<bioeng> Yes, Southern
<bddebian> bioeng: Yes, Southern is a decent school
<bioeng> You've heard of it?
<bddebian> bioeng: I was born/raised in Illinois
<bddebian> Heya Kyral
<bioeng> Ah
<bioeng> What effect will a senior design project have on your career?
<zakame> hi Kyral
<bioeng> Does anyone know anything about embedded?
<bddebian> Did we ever get a FTBFS list?
<bioeng> I'm sorry
<bioeng> I'll leave now
* ajmitch hates fedora
<ajmitch> with a passion
<ajmitch> bddebian: no, you can pester infinity if you want
<bddebian> Uhm no thanks.  He hates me already too :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: want me to do it? I aviod -devel so they shouldn't get too mad at me
<bddebian> Nah, it's not that big of deal
<LaserJock> I want a list too though
<bddebian> Someone posted on on the ML at one point
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I've asked about 4 or 5 times :)
<ajmitch> but they're fairly busy, so I don't press it too much
<azeem> the list won't be very useful after the release I guess
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> which is why I've been wanting it while we have a chance to fix things
<LaserJock> azeem!
<azeem> hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> hello azeem
<LaserJock> azeem: long time, no see!
<azeem> mopac7 builds in Debian on ia64 now
<azeem> are ia64 FTBFS considered remotely important here?
<bddebian> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/unimultiverse-buildstatus.html  ??
<LaserJock> azeem: not sure
<ogra> azeem, by lamont, yes ...
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya heya
* imbrandon just got done wireing up a snes controler to his ltp port ;)
<bddebian> heh
<azeem> are Malone bugs closed automatically by appropriate changelog lines these days?
<bddebian> Hmm why is xvidcap still in the archive
<bddebian> azeem: Not that I know of
<imbrandon> azeem: dont think so
<azeem> ok
<imbrandon> bddebian: the cool part is kubuntu picked it right up, no config needed ;)
<bddebian> imbrandon: ?
<imbrandon> the snes pad on my ltp0
<bddebian> Ah, cool
<imbrandon> guess now that i'm done goofing of i should do something usefull ;)
* imbrandon go's off to scour some iconcache stuff
<azeem> Laser_away: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mopac7/+bug/46476
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46476 in mopac7 "mopac7: FTBFS on ia64: relocation truncated to fit: GPREL22 against `.rodata.str1.8'" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<Laser_away> azeem: sweet, I thought it was a new upstream release
<azeem> well, I hope that fixes it as well, I have no ia64/dapper to test on, though
<azeem> testing on the Debian porter machine versus the Debian buildd was unconclusive
<ajmitch> yay
<bddebian> yay?
<ajmitch> more apt-get.org crap imported for us to support
<bddebian> heh
<Laser_away> azeem: well, I can upload it anyway, as long as it doesn't kill anything :-)
<ajmitch> makes me wonder why we bother with REVU & the rest of the QA
<azeem> Laser_away: the patch should be non-invasive
<Laser_away> ajmitch: what? I didn't think we did that anymore
<azeem> unless the toolchain has changed...
<ajmitch> Laser_away: we do..
<ajmitch> dholbach does some checks for sanity, builds them, etc
<Laser_away> hmm, I thought he stopped that a while ago
<ajmitch> nah
<azeem> you could request a new group ubuntu-apt-get.org who would support that
<azeem> with dholbach as initial member :)
<ajmitch> we don't need feature freeze or UVF or any of those fancy things
<Laser_away> and bug contact
<bddebian> azeem: heh
* ajmitch is now receiving all the 'yay!!!11 & aww!!!1one' spam on the SoC lists
<ajmitch> I should unsubscribe
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> about 120 messages to the summer-accepted list in the last day
<ajmitch> students...
<Laser_away> can't live with them, can't leagally shoot them :-) j/k
<ajmitch> hehe
<Laser_away> that's a little bit of TA humor
<ajmitch> I know what it's like
<crimsun> we have better ways than shooting, like say, dissertation defenses.
* ajmitch has 8 hours in the lab a week helping students
<Laser_away> hehe
<ajmitch> of course a number of those 8 hours get spent on irc since the students are actually working
<Laser_away> give me a dissertaition defense anyday over teaching med students :-)
<ajmitch> someone fix my bugs for me please
<bddebian> ajmitch: Which ones?
<ajmitch> all of them
<crimsun> just file bugs to have them removed from the archive. Done.
<bddebian> heh
<ajmitch> then I have to deal with whining users
<ajmitch> they're as bad as students
<crimsun> worse. You can't flunk users.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> you should see the carnage that resulted on the SoC list - google accidentally sent out acceptance emails by mistake
<ajmitch> when the students were actually rejected :)
<crimsun> d'oh, hehe
<bddebian> Eeks
<Laser_away> ouch, I might have been tempted to do that on purpose, but I"m not that mean
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> yes you are, admit it
<Kyral> Give into the DARK SIDE!!
<Kyral> ;P
<ajmitch> yeah..
<Laser_away> nah, all my TA evaluations said I was nice, which is bad. TA are supposed to be hard asses (excuse the non-CoCness) :/
<Kyral> Give into the BOFH inside
<ajmitch> Laser_away: CoC applies if you're harassing students here
<ajmitch> or other people..
<Laser_away> ok, I gotta go fix a neighbors Windows ME box :(
<ajmitch> have fun
<Laser_away> I doubt it
<bddebian> Ack, even for Windows ME is bad :)
* ajmitch wishes the latest suse was available
<bddebian> Ugh, why?
<ajmitch> because suse is so much better than this ubuntu crap
<ajmitch> everyone knows that
* bddebian dials the Ubuntu police
<Kyral> Arch > Ubuntu :P
* Kyral ducks
<ajmitch> Kyral: and why are you still here? :P
<Kyral> I....actually don't know....
<Kyral> I like the company?
<bddebian> Kyral: Yeah, and where's my Ubunturd? ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I want to look at suse since they do the network auth stuff I want in edgy :)
<Kyral> bddebian: yah yah when I get a break from work
<Kyral> :P
<bddebian> ajmitch: Ah, coolio
<imbrandon> ajmitch heh i've been waiting on the latest suse too to rip some of its gnome menu stuff ( mono )
<ajmitch> heh
<imbrandon> this menu specificaly http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/img/preview_screenshots/menus-launcher.jpg
<bddebian> Bah, I think I'll port xpde for Edgy ;-P
<imbrandon> hehe i have that installed too ( but its WAY outdated )
<imbrandon> needs alot of work
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that menu does look to be rather annoying :)
<bddebian> Sicko :-)
<imbrandon> bddebian: seen my kde ?   http://imbrandon.sytes.net/misc/snapshot2.png
<imbrandon> now THAT is an xpde ( only made with kde no xpde wm ) hehe
<ajmitch> imbrandon: excuse me while I claw my eyes out
<imbrandon> heh ajmitch hey becoues i like the power of linux/ubuntu dosent mean i dont like the look of windows ;)
<bddebian> imbrandon: You are a sick puppy :-)
<imbrandon> and thats all original artwork / gpl code too ;)
<imbrandon> no copyright stuff etc
<imbrandon> i was thinking of packageing up that theme for edgy
<imbrandon> ;)
<ajmitch> cast him out
<imbrandon> hahahah NOOOOOO
<imbrandon> serouisly though, windows dont LOOK bad, just is buggy as hell ;)
<imbrandon> IMHO
<ajmitch> if you like teletubbies
<imbrandon> heh
* bddebian runs XP in classic mode 'cause I hate that crap
<ajmitch> lots of strong primary colours, just like kindergarten!
<imbrandon> heh vista is all darkish
<imbrandon> same glass look though ( like kde4 look actualy )
<imbrandon> plasma
<ajmitch> & it's still nasty ugly
<imbrandon> http://plasma.kde.org/ <--- *likes*
<imbrandon> heh i guess thats why kwwii is doing the artwork and not me ;)
* ajmitch hasn't seen any actual screenshots of what kde4 may look like
<imbrandon> i was looking at the kicker stuff ( proposed ) and its looking more and more like vista or the other way arround actualy
<ajmitch> yeah
<bddebian> Ack, I gotta go to bed.  Gnight folks
<ajmitch> really something to look forward to
<ajmitch> night bddebian
<imbrandon> gnight bddebian
<crimsun> night
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee, gnight Hobbsee :-)
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
<Hobbsee> oh good...all of my net is finally connecting - not just parts of it.
<imbrandon> heh
<Hobbsee> anyone want to do my computing assignment for me?
<Hobbsee> it's being highly evil.
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> we're far too sensible for that
<Hobbsee> damn.
<Hobbsee> you're no fun at all...
* Hobbsee searches for a magic wand to clean up all this mess.
<crimsun> is there a payoff?
<crimsun> if so, kubuntu cc members aren't supposed to bribe ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee will fix a grand total of 1 of your bugs?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> hehehe
<Hobbsee> one of the simplest ones, yes :P
<ajmitch> of course
<imbrandon> a dh_iconcache one
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> they aren't all done?
<imbrandon> btw did you see the new list Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> trouble is, no one understands it, so people keep coming to me about it - and i keep sayign "i dont know, i've got no idea how you're supposed to do this"
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i didnt
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, us young people are being slack and lazy.
<imbrandon> nope there is a ton more added
<Hobbsee> oh brilliant
<imbrandon> but good news is with kde.mk most only need to be rebuilt
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, they got rebuilt...
* Hobbsee doenst see that as the new list
* Hobbsee may well be looking in the wrong place
<imbrandon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DhIconCacheChanges
<imbrandon> ohh wait, they are done, w00t
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i didnt see a link of stuff that the kcc can and cannot do anywhere :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> i think all of the ones listed there as me got uploaded
<imbrandon> heh looks like thre arew only 2 left , kvirc2 and jre1.4
<crimsun> so, I uploaded kvirc2
<imbrandon> yea that bottom list should be whiped out
<crimsun> s/so/no/
<imbrandon> ahh ok crimsun it was still listed, i'll remove it
<crimsun> thanks
<Hobbsee> not sure what happened to kdesvn and kdeaccessibility - ajmitch would have to tell you that...
* Hobbsee has forgotten what happened, again
<imbrandon> what about j2re1.4 anyone ? if not i'll grab it real fast
<crimsun> Hobbsee: kdesvn was uploaded.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: right, so it was kdeaccessibility that musnt have been, then
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: go for it
<imbrandon> *looks like it can come out of the topic then*
<Hobbsee> wait a min...
<Hobbsee> let me go thru and kill mine...
<imbrandon> i did for ya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ah okay
<ajmitch> hey whiprush
<Hobbsee> i just un-assigned myself from a couple though - kdesvn and kdeaccessibility
<whiprush> hi aj
<ajmitch> whiprush: got anything special planned for the fridge for dapper release?
<imbrandon> kdesvn and others was redone Hobbsee
<ajmitch> I've noticed a lack of love there lately
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: sure?  okay
<whiprush> ajmitch: not afaik.
<whiprush> ajmitch: yeah, I need to get on that.
* ajmitch ought to get some lunch soon
<Hobbsee> okay, that really did get done
<Hobbsee> heh, not another person skipping meals..
* Kyral yawns
<Hobbsee> hi Kyral
<Kyral> Puni Puni Poemy....
<Kyral> more random than Excel Saga...
<Kyral> its the incarnation of /dev/random...
<Kyral> I'm tired just from watching it
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient)
<Hobbsee> there we go
<Kyral> Poemi never refers to herself by her character name...instead calling herself by her voice actresses' name...
* Hobbsee wonders about Kyral's sanity
<imbrandon> ?!?
<Kyral> hehe
* ajmitch doesn't need to wonder
<Kyral> Oh I know my brain is coming from /dev/random half the time
<Hobbsee> only half?
<Kyral> okay, 3/4ths
<imbrandon> and /dev/null the other 1/4 :) j/k
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> the other 1/4 is sleeping :P
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon>  /dev/snore
<imbrandon>  /etc/init.d/hybernate
<Kyral>  /dev/zero :P
<Kyral> I wonder how the hell the voice actress for Poemi didn't hurt her self
<Kyral> especially after doing Excel in Excel Saga
<Kyral> (For the English dub, the first voice actress for Excel hurt her voice trying to keep up with her and was replaced halfway through the series)
<Hobbsee> oh dear, i've forgotten how to add more addresses to my key...
<crimsun> Hobbsee: kgpg or whatnot should be able to
<crimsun> Hobbsee: otherwise, gpg --edit-key $yourID, then adduid
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i tend to just use the ordinary gpg - i've done it before, but cant remember how to...
<Hobbsee> ah...
<Hobbsee> crimsun: got it, thanks :)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: np
* ajmitch obviously didn't put enough chilli sauce in the lunch
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: why not?
<ajmitch> because I can still feel my tongue
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Lathiat> hrm interesting vino doesnt work unless the X display is active
<Lathiat> e.g. cant be on a terminal or another X display else the display doesnt update
<crimsun> don't try to suspend/hibernate while using an external display, either
<crimsun> this computer is pretty much useless upon resuming if I attempt either
<neutrinomas1> Am I doing something silly or is the fd.org category 'remoteaccess' not recognised by the menu system ?
<siretart> morning
<Hobbsee> hi siretart
<siretart> hey Hobbsee
<siretart> slomo_: just for the case you guys are expecting an urgend answer (uvf related or not): I'm away over the week end, will be available again on sunday evening
<Hobbsee> er...weekend?
* Hobbsee didnt think it was that late in the week!
<slomo_> siretart: i guess most uvf requests are far too late now anyway... and for urgent ones like "current version explodes at basic tasks and leaves only dust around" daniel and i could do it again with two votes until you're back
<Hobbsee> urgh, yes, guess we've got to request one of them...
<Hobbsee> i think
<siretart> Hobbsee: today is public holiday (at least in .de)
<Hobbsee> siretart: oh nice - what holiday?
<Hobbsee> siretart: imbrandon has an upload for you, btw
<siretart> slomo_: great. that's what I wanted to hear :)
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/kmess.debdiff
<siretart> Hobbsee: which package?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> kmess
<Hobbsee> siretart: kmess - it currently FTBFS
<siretart> kmess? huh?
<imbrandon> fixes a FTBFS
<Mithrandir> Ascension day, public holiday here too
<siretart> I'm sorry, I'm in a hurry :/
<Mithrandir> so I was up until four playing RPGs
<Hobbsee> siretart: who do we poke then?
<Mithrandir> at least half past three
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ah okay
* Hobbsee pokes Mithrandir in retaliation for yesterday
<imbrandon> lol
<Mithrandir> ouch
<Mithrandir> :-)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: whenever i actually make it to some form of ubuntu meetings, do you think it's likely that many ubuntu devs will have sore ribs?  :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I will buy a flak jacket before going, I think.
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: anyone upload that diff ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: siretart had to go out
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you have uploads to main, dont you?
<ajmitch> nothing is being uploaded to main without approval
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes, but who gets poked to get approval?
<imbrandon> kmess is main ? mdz Hobbsee
<ajmitch> only urgent/critical fixes for main from now on
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no, kmess is in universe
<Hobbsee> Filename: pool/universe/k/kmess/kmess_1.4.2-0ubuntu2_i386.deb
<imbrandon> see ;)
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I do, but I'm also on vacation today.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: and does fixing a FTBFS count as urgent/critical?  :P
<Mithrandir> (which is, uh, why I'm sitting in front of my compter?)
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe!
<Mithrandir> computer, even
<Hobbsee> gotcha.
<imbrandon> ajmitch got a sec to put that up ( kmess ) ?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: FTBFS for a package in main?
<imbrandon> not main
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no, in universe
<ajmitch> universe is ok still, iff uploads are accepted
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/kmess.debdiff  <-- care to stick that up ajmitch ?
<imbrandon> its a ftbfs fix
<ajmitch> imbrandon: any good reason you left the line commented out there?
<imbrandon> no good reason
<imbrandon> no
<ajmitch> & could you make the changelog a bit more detailed?
<ajmitch> since 'fix FTBFS' doesn't say what changed
<imbrandon> sure ... give me 2 secs
<imbrandon> got one other build going, gimme just a cupple secs
<ajmitch> did you borrow this patch form debian, or are you going to submit it?
<ajmitch> since the bug # listed looks quite irrelevant
<ajmitch> debian 357765
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 357765 in libtest-mockobject-perl "Subject: libtest-mockobject-perl: FTBFS: failed tests" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/357765
<Hobbsee> er, wrong bug number, it seems
<Hobbsee> [18:01]  <crimsun> debian #357764
<Hobbsee> [18:01]  <Ubugtu> Debian bug 357764 in kmess "Subject: kmess: FTBFS: g++ compile error" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/357764
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 357764 in kmess "Subject: kmess: FTBFS: g++ compile error" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/357764
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 357764 in kmess "Subject: kmess: FTBFS: g++ compile error" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/357764
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ^
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: why were you asking about main then? :)
<imbrandon> actualy borrowed a patch from crimsin that borrowed it from debian
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes I saw
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because i screwed up.
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch , all fixed up
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/kmess.debdiff
<ajmitch> well it still doesn't say what actually changed.. :)
<imbrandon> dosent in the debian patch either ....
<imbrandon> crimsun just grabs the part of the pacth that was relivant .....
<ajmitch> kmess (1.4.2-2) unstable; urgency=medium
<ajmitch>  .
<ajmitch>    * Added a patch (debian/patches/01_ballonbase.patch) to fix
<ajmitch>      building. (Closes: #357764
<imbrandon> kmess (1.4.2-2) unstable; urgency=medium
<imbrandon>  .
<imbrandon>    * Added a patch (debian/patches/01_ballonbase.patch) to fix
<imbrandon>      building. (Closes: #357764)
<imbrandon> right ...
<ajmitch> so it says what has been added to fix it
<ajmitch> where to find that change
<imbrandon> ahh ok you want the path to the file ? np
<ajmitch> sorry to be pedantic, but it's very useful in 6 months when you try & do other changes
<imbrandon> sure, np
<imbrandon> i just wasent catching you all the way, i'm sleepy ;)
<ajmitch> we find this everytime we start merging from debian again
<ajmitch> trying to understand what changes were made in the previous ubuntu development cycle
* Hobbsee sees very little info on how to patch things
<imbrandon> ajmitch hows this  .... ( sorry for redundency i'm tired )
<imbrandon> kmess (1.4.2-0ubuntu4) dapper; urgency=low
<imbrandon>   * Changed kmess/notification/balloonbase.cpp to fix Debian Bug #357764
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 357764 in kmess "Subject: kmess: FTBFS: g++ compile error" [Serious,Closed]  http://bugs.debian.org/357764
<ajmitch> imbrandon: looks good
<imbrandon> k gimme 3 sec
<imbrandon> http://ubuntustuff.sytes.net/devel/dapper/kmess.debdiff
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> heya dholbach
<imbrandon> ajmitch did you upload that ( just wondering so i can delete the tmp file from my webserver )
<MiniJames> hey
<MiniJames> Just a quick question
<MiniJames> KeyTouch-editor 3.0 beta has been released
<MiniJames> is this likely to find itself being packaged any time soon?
<MiniJames> http://keytouch.sourceforge.net/
<imbrandon> not for dapper , edgy possibly
<MiniJames> :(
<MiniJames> feature freeze?
<imbrandon> yes ;)
<TheMuso> MiniJames: For some time now, yes.
<MiniJames> im new :)
<Hobbsee> it looks cool
<MiniJames> its great
<MiniJames> i need to make a config for my keyboard
<MiniJames> and gui looks much nicer than the cli of v2
<MiniJames> and on a personal level, would anyone package it anyway?
<MiniJames> even if its not destined for the repo
<MiniJames> ?
<tseng> you could package it :)
<imbrandon> i might be able to, but not today, its almost my bed time, hit me up tomarrow ( or email me brandon@imbrandon.com with your info )
<MiniJames> stunner
<MiniJames> bed time?
<MiniJames> what part of the world are you from?
<MiniJames> its 11am here
<MiniJames> in the UK
<MiniJames> brandon, do you use IM?
<MiniJames> msn etc
<MiniJames> i dont know how to package :(
<MiniJames> im guessing that at least 4 people will give me a wiki link now
<imbrandon> good time to learn, anyhow no i dont use msn
<MiniJames> shame :)
<MiniJames> ill email you
<imbrandon> its 6am here but i sleep durring the day and work at night, get more done that way ;)
<Hobbsee> MiniJames: nah, we'll just point you to the topic :P
<MiniJames> :)
<MiniJames> also
<MiniJames> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/keytouch/keytouch-editor_2.9.99%2B3.0.0beta3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb?use_mirror=belnet
<MiniJames> the deb claims to be the 3.0 beta
<MiniJames> :/
<imbrandon> see there ya go
<MiniJames> but its really not --
<imbrandon> email the maintainer ;)
<MiniJames> meh, thats long
<MiniJames> :P
<MiniJames> ah
<MiniJames> ive got to the bottom of it
<MiniJames> basicaly -- the website has the most recent version, but the repo thinks that its an earliar version
<MiniJames> there is a mismatch somewhere
<MiniJames> i removed v2 and installed v3 from the deb
<MiniJames> and it works (y)
<MiniJames> yeah, this is a bug with the repo
<MiniJames> apt-get is telling me that the package is out of date
<MiniJames> when its not
<MiniJames> how do i list this?
<imbrandon> not realy its a bug with the maintainers versioning of his deb
<imbrandon> not the repos
<MiniJames> oh really?
<imbrandon> thats not standard ubuntu versioning in the deb he made
<MiniJames> but still, surely it would be sensible for a motu to modify the deb
<MiniJames> it could be confusing for less smart users ;)
<imbrandon> honestly your gonna have a better chance getting the maintainer to change to the correct way
<Hobbsee> er...what?
<Hobbsee> you cant submit a deb to revu
<MiniJames> fair enough
<MiniJames> revu?
<Hobbsee> revu = place to upload files
<MiniJames> yeah, i thought so
<MiniJames> thats completely unrelated?
<MiniJames> why did you bring that up?
<imbrandon> not realy considering this is a motu chan its very related ;)
<MiniJames> lol
<MiniJames> i meant to our conversation
<MiniJames> not to the channel :)
<imbrandon> ahhh * considered the conversation over so it dident make sence to him*
<imbrandon> anyhow i'm off to sleep, gnight Hobbsee and everyone
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> night
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<StevenK> Ow!
<imbrandon> your gonna need a suit of armor you keep doing that boy ;)
<MiniJames> lol
<MiniJames> night
<MiniJames> thanks for the help
* Mithrandir kicks mono in the nuts.
<Mithrandir> Got a SIGSEGV while executing native code. This usually indicates
<Mithrandir> a fatal error in the mono runtime or one of the native libraries
<Mithrandir> used by your application.
<Mithrandir> grr
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: what app?
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: self-written
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: there appears to be some flakiness related to treemodelfilter.
<imbrandon_zZz> ajmitch did you upload that kmess ( just wondering so i can delete the tmp file from my webserver )
<ajmitch> no, I haven't, though I've got the package ready for upload here once the RC is out
<imbrandon_zZz> kk , thanks
<imbrandon_zZz> gnight all
<ajmitch> night
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: so, my mentor, do you want me to send you weekly status reports & all that? ;)
<ajmitch> or just turn up at the weekly dev team meetings once they've started for edgy?
* ajmitch would think a minimum of bureaucracy would be best
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: dev meetings would be a good start, I think.
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: yeah, no need for big, formal reports and such.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: What is your project?
<ajmitch> network auth
<TheMuso> ah
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: do please keep your code in bzr or something somewhere I can poke it regularly.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: sure
* ajmitch has been using bzr for everything for awhile now
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to delete ajmitch's code, then to run very quickly!
* zakame wishes ajmitch lots of luck
<Mithrandir> ajmitch: where's a useful place to talk with gtk# people?
<ajmitch> maybe #mono on gimpnet
<ajmitch> I don't know if there's any specific place they lurk
<sivang> ajmitch: congrets on taking network auth :)
<sivang> zakame: what are you going to work on btw?
<ajmitch> so sparc is on the list of supported architectures now, at least for server?
<sivang> it is ?
<ajmitch> appears to be
<ajmitch> sigh, rsync from the work server appears to go *much* faster than at home
<zakame> sivang: sendpage enhancements for osdl
<ajmitch> sivang: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/ has sparc
<sivang> zakame: ah, not for ubuntu ?
<zakame> not for now, but I am still interested in exploring what I've proposed for ubuntu
<sivang> zakame: cool
<G0SUB> zakame: your project for OSDL looks awesome
<G0SUB> where is my mentor Pitti?
<G0SUB> sivang: how many acceptances for Ubuntu?
<tseng> pitti doesnt come here
<tseng> and is offline anyway
<G0SUB> tseng: I don't see him on -devel too
<tseng> < tseng> and is offline anyway
<G0SUB> yep
<Mithrandir> it's a public holiday in .de
<Mithrandir> tseng: hiya dude.
<tseng> hi Mithrandir :)
<Mithrandir> tseng: so, if I have a problem with gtk#, do you want bugs in lp or upstream?  I _think_ my problem is a bug in gtk# at least.
<G0SUB> Mithrandir: do you know what Linus' cat is called?
<Mithrandir> G0SUB: no idea.  Why?
<tseng> Mithrandir: hm describe it for me
<G0SUB> Mithrandir: it's called Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> tseng: see #mono on gimpnet
<Mithrandir> G0SUB: lucky cat.
<G0SUB> Randy for short
<G0SUB> Randi
<G0SUB> heh
<tseng> "I get a crash in gtk itself somewhere."
<tseng> interesting
<Mithrandir> tseng: basically, I have a TreeStore which is wrapped by a filter.  If I wrap that again with a filter, calling setvalue on the innermost makes my app go boom.
<Mithrandir> tseng: if I just twiddle the original treestore's data, I can make gtk sigsegv.
<tseng> if the native library underneath manages to crash there is probably a bug there, at least
<tseng> managed code doesnt segfault, obviously
<Mithrandir> true, that's part of the point.
<Mithrandir> if I call setvalue on the first filter, it works just fine.
<tseng> how much would it take to make a testcase in native gtk+
<tseng> to rule that out
<Mithrandir> not very much.  50-100 lines, I suspect.
<Mithrandir> (my whole C# thingy is 180 lines and includes some xml parsing and junk)
<tseng> if it does turn out to be gtk#
<tseng> upstream always wants a parred down test case
<Mithrandir> understandably.
<Mithrandir> I think I have two bugs, though.  One is the sigsegv, the other is the failed propagation of setvalue.
<tseng> I don't think we'll get action on it for dapper
<Mithrandir> sure, that's not a problem, I'm just doing this on my own.
<tseng> but the best reporting atm would be to file a bug in ubuntu
<Mithrandir> (and I can trivially work around it anyway)
<tseng> and link it to upstream
<tseng> does launchpad speak to bugzilla.ximian.com?
<Mithrandir> also, what's _really_ weird is my app just goes away.  No execption. nothing.
<Mithrandir> I'd think so, but I'm not sure.
<tseng> hm really?
<ajmitch> LP grabs bug status from there
<tseng> you had to run in gdb to see the segv?
<ajmitch> I've got an f-spot bug with an open ximian bug upstream
<Mithrandir> nope, monodevelop deployed some sort of parachute
<tseng> ajmitch: cool
<ajmitch> hm
<tseng> at least they still have it, and not migrated to bugs.novell
<ajmitch> except that b.x.c is broken
<Mithrandir> I could try making a few testcases, sure.
<ajmitch> http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=77968
* tseng jinxes self
<tseng> brilliant
<tseng> Mithrandir: i guess that only leaves opening an lp bug, then :)
<Mithrandir> heh
<tseng> the offending code would be good, ruling in/out gtk+ native would be better
<Mithrandir> tseng: also, the docs in monodoc seems to be less updated than the ones on docs.gotmono.net.  Would it be possible to fix that?
<tseng> the docs for core stuff?
<tseng> or gtk#
<tseng> i am not sure where this site pulls from
<tseng> gotmono isnt official
<Mithrandir> gtk#, at least
<Mithrandir> well, monodoc doesn't even seem to have TreeModelFilter at all
<tseng> generating monodoc search index... (this can take a while)
<tseng> no kidding
<tseng> i know monodoc is sort of wiki-like.. people can edit and upload changes
<tseng> i am not sure how it gets synced up
<Mithrandir> yeah, I've contributed a small set of changes.
<tseng> with the docs that come from individual projects
<tseng> Mithrandir: http://www.go-mono.com/docs/
<tseng> Mithrandir: this is the official source btw
<tseng> or, an official source
<Mithrandir> tseng: http://monoport.com/94 , edit something in that and it should just go away
<Mithrandir> tseng: actually, that disappears for me even if I just use one level of filters too.
<tseng> ugh
<tseng> why does cut and paste from pastebin always include the line numbers
<Hobbsee> tseng: copy it from the big white box, below?
<Hobbsee> you dont get numbers then
<tseng> oh
<tseng> duh
<Hobbsee> :P
<tseng> but when selecting in firefox, the numbers arent highlighted
<tseng> its deceiving
<Mithrandir> tseng: It might very well be I who have misunderstood something and it's "expected" behaviour, but I somehow doubt that. :-P
<tseng> yeah I am no gtk+ guru to help you in that respect
<tseng> The type or namespace name `TreeModelFilter' does not exist in the namespace `Gtk'. Are you missing an assembly reference?
<tseng> what assembly is this?
<Mithrandir> you need gtk# 2.8.0 or newer, afaik
<tseng> well, got that
<tseng> $ mcs -pkg:gtk-sharp mithrandir.cs
<Hobbsee> oh, linux terminal is *way* better than devc++ and a command prompt :D - you can paste into it!
<tseng> oh duh
<tseng> -2.0
<Mithrandir> tseng: you might want a trivial mainwindow class too, I'm not sure.
<Mithrandir> tseng: I just pasted it into a monodevelop gtk project
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> it is morning here
<tseng> just starting on the caffeine drip
<Mithrandir> I think I'll go grab a shower or something
<tseng> so
<tseng> i put in Daft Punk as a filter
<tseng> and it finds 2 rows
<Mithrandir> try to edit one of them
<tseng> ah!
<tseng> Segmentation fault
<Mithrandir> yours actually segfaulted?  mine doesn't here, it just disappears
<tseng> yes
<tseng> mono mithrandir.exe
<tseng> prints your usual segfault
<tseng> but mono usually gives you a nice stack trace too
<Mithrandir> now, if you comment out the SetValue line, does it "work" for you?
<Mithrandir> (it obviously doesn't change the value then)
<tseng> lets see
<tseng> yes
<tseng> it just sets the value of the cell back to Daft Punk
<tseng> no crash.
<Mithrandir> yeah, it doesn't update the underlying data model
<tseng> now
<tseng> the original works setting the value with no filter?
<tseng> nope.
<Mithrandir> now, if you change all references to filter in artistNameCell_Edited into musicListStore and move the declaration of musicliststore into the class (from the TreeViewExample function body), then uncomment setvalue, does it work for you?
<Mithrandir> http://monoport.com/96 being my new source
<tseng> one minute
<tseng> http://monoport.com/97
<tseng> this seems to suggest it died in native code that i dont have symbols for
<Mithrandir> that's the bt for the original code, right?
<Mithrandir> not 96?
<tseng> right.
<tseng> but it starts dying in the GC
<tseng> not gtk#
<tseng> is that the same you saw?
<tseng> fetching 96
<Mithrandir> I don't have the debug symbols for libmono here, it seems
<Mithrandir> bah, need to rebuild mono for those
<tseng> yeah :(
<tseng> so, 96 works fine
<Mithrandir> if it's dying in the gc, there's probably a missing ref somewhere
<tseng> yeah something pretty ugly happens
<Mithrandir> so, should I blame gtk# or mono?
<tseng> I am blaming Mono atm
<tseng> from the look of the backtrace
<tseng> even if your code was bogus it shouldnt die in native land
<Mithrandir> and I don't think it's bogus.
<Mithrandir> since it works just fine with a treestore, just not with a treemodelfilter
<tseng> yeah.
<tseng> and it doesnt look to be dying in gtk(#)
<Mithrandir> tseng: Program received signal SIGPWR, Power fail/restart.
<Mithrandir> Go mono!
<Mithrandir> http://monoport.com/99 is the backtrace
<Mithrandir> tseng: but my machine is a dualcore, so I might run into other problems than you
<ajmitch> SIGPWR is usual in gdb with apps using threads, no?
<Mithrandir> unsure.
<Mithrandir> it looks crackful to me
<ajmitch> why does fedora have to suck so much?
<ajmitch> yeah, SIGPWR, pthreads..
<ajmitch> info on it in http://www.mono-project.com/Debugging
<tseng> SIGPWR is used by mono
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<zakame> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<Mowgli> Hiho
<bddebian> Hello Mowgli
* Mowgli did a update on jpeg2ps.
<Mowgli> It can be uploaded to ubuntu by someone having the power.
<mvo> siretart: around?
<Hobbsee> mvo: i doubt it - earlier he mentioned that it was a public holiday where he was - de, i think
<bddebian> Mowgli: Update how?  Update from upstream or a patch?
<mvo> Hobbsee: ok, thanks
<Mowgli> bddebian: Well, both and none. Daniel Holbach take this package I did in ubuntu and I did a update on my server.
<zul> hey hub
<Kyral_Laptop> whee I may have to package something again
<Mowgli> I do not know how to upload.
<mvo> what do I have to do to get a freeze exception? I would like to update two font packages (ttf-sil-dolous and ttf-sil-charis). is a review needed before the upload?
* Mowgli is away. Automatically set away [SZon] 
<Mowgli> Naja, I wrote a mail to daniel. Its on him to upload.
<Mowgli> Bye
<zul> uh..ok
<bddebian> :-)
<Spec> hehe, now that I build packages somewhat more regularly i actually can remember my gpg public key :p
<crimsun> I use it often enough that it's in my shell history
<Kyral_Laptop> lol
<Spec> so, if I build a package based off of someone elses bzr repository (one file), what's the best way for me to be informed when there's any changes to the file, so I can repackage it?
<Spec> and should repackaging like that be automated? :p
<Spec> Seveas: are you around?
<Seveas> yes
<Spec> wanna update the wiki for freenx? *innocent*
<Spec> and do you have dapper packages for freenx?
<Spec> ignore the last comment ;)
<bluefoxicy> FreeNX integration would be awesome
<bluefoxicy> like, gdm able to implement encrypted FreeNX through the chooser
<JohnnyMast> Seveas ping
<Seveas> Spec, yes I have dapper packages
<Seveas> Spec, and what updates would be needed?
<Seveas> (probably those dapper packages)
<Seveas> I'll ave a look at it
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, ?
<JohnnyMast> Seveas that planet software on ubuntulinux.nl what package is that from or is it costum design ?
<bddebian> costume design? ;-)
<Spec> Seveas: yeah, just mentioning dapper for freenx basically is all it needs
<Seveas> JohnnyMast, planetplanet.org with ubuntu style
<Spec> Seveas: it works! :)
<JohnnyMast> ok
<Spec> I was using a package from a different mirror and it said protocol mismatch after authentication, so I switched to your packages for both the client and the server, and it's working. great job :)
<Seveas> Spec, slh is the one to thank. I've merely added some minor fixes
<Seveas> still have to fix a gnome-session vs nxclient bug
<Spec> slh?
<Seveas> a kanotix guy
<Spec> ah
<Spec> so, are there opensource windows nx clients?
<Spec> right now i'm in a vmware ubuntu(@work) nxing to my laptop's ubuntu (@home)
<Seveas> no, the client is only closed source
<Seveas> same goes for the browser plugin
<Spec> wow, there's a browser plugin? :p
<Spec> vnc-java style?
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> small java plugin that installs and runs a client
<Seveas> (client is basically the same as the standard NX client)
<Spec> ah
<Spec> so not even as cool as the java plugin? :p
<Spec> it's arch dependent, right?
<Spec> all the packages you provide are GPL, right?
<Seveas> the plugin is arch dependent (win, mac(ppc), linux(386) and solaris(?? dunno which archs) are there
<Seveas> and none of the nx* are gpl, but a different license
<Seveas> (and I'm slow because I'm working on malone backlog)
<Spec> solaris = sparc
<Spec> and sometimes x86 :p
<Spec> none are gpl? it says it's gpl though
<Spec> err, nevermind
<Spec> freenx is gpl :p
<Seveas> yes, freenx is 
<Seveas> but nx not
<Seveas> and can't be since it's basically a huge X patch +some extra libs
<Spec> are the nx* packages' license RMS compatable?
<tseng> nx is proprietary
<LaserJock> I would guess that would mean it isn't exactly RMS compatible ;-)
<Seveas> Spec, apart from nxclient and nxplugin the packages are at least DFSG-compatible (iirc the same license as X)
<Spec> so nxclient is from nomachine.com?
<Seveas> yep
<Spec> no wonder they look the same (win/lin versions)
<Spec> so there's no free linux client at all?
<Spec> even knx or something like that?
<Spec> !seen sistpoty
<Seveas> knx would be a nice-to-have thing
<Seveas> but it's largely unmaintained and not working
<Spec> oh :p
<LaserJock> no dholbach? :(
<LaserJock> siretart or slomo_: ping?
<zul> LaserJock: its a holiday in germany apparently
<LaserJock> hmm, holidays
<tseng> Mithrandir: bugzilla.ximian is back
<tseng> Mithrandir: if you are still up at this hour
<LaserJock> tseng: lol @ -devel :-)
<tseng> haha
<FliesLikeABrick> who handles setting up the torrents for the RC?
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure. I think -devel would know better than here
<FliesLikeABrick> thanks
<shawarma> Is there somehow I can use pbuilder to crosscompile?
<Bazzi> are there any must-read guides when wanting to start building ubuntu packages (other than the wiki pages)?
<FliesLikeABrick> Bazzi read the links in the topic
<LaserJock> Bazzi: are you running Dapper?
<Bazzi> LaserJock: yes
<crimsun> Bazzi: yes, you /must/ read the New Maintainer's Guide and Developer's Guide. A good starting point is the Ubuntu Packaging Guide.
<Bazzi> FliesLikeABrick: yeah I've been sweeping them :)
<LaserJock> Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
<Bazzi> Kubuntu
<LaserJock> Bazzi: in the Kubuntu help there is a Ubuntu Packaging Guide that should help
<Bazzi> sweet :)
<LaserJock> Bazzi: as well as what crimsun said about the Debian New Maintainers' Guide, Debian Developers' Guide, and probably the Debian Policy, which are found at www.debian.org/devel/
<Bazzi> ok thanks I'm bookmarking them
<Bazzi> one more question before reading all of them: do I need to build/test for more than one arch? as I understand only source packages are accepted, how is it verified on which archs they run? how are the binary packages built (automagically?)
<LaserJock> Bazzi: np, and if you need help just ask here
<LaserJock> Bazzi: normally you test build using pbuilder for the arch you are running
<Spec> can pbuilder build for multiple archs?
<LaserJock> not that I'm aware of but I could be wrong
<Spec> so when you submit sources up, they have pbuilder run on several different archs to build all the different arch'd packages?
<LaserJock> kind of, it isn't pbuilder exactly
<LaserJock> they go to the buildd farm to be built on various archs
<tseng> hi dh
<tseng> dholbach...
<Spec> the build farm, sounds kinda orswellsish
<crimsun> zyga: it's up for me. Do you need 2.2.0 specifically, or can your app be forward-ported to 2.2.2?
<crimsun> gah
<LaserJock> Spec: I think that is probably a good analogy ;-)
<Spec> i think i should probably start using lintian
<Spec> to see if my packages are even remotely legit
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> debuild runs lintian before signing
<Spec> dpkg-buildpackage?
<LaserJock> yep
<Spec> so if that passes, then it's a legit package already?
<crimsun> it's not legit til you've tested the entire cycle, uploaded it, and it's available
<Spec> tested the entire cycle?
<LaserJock> well, it is a good idea to try lintian and/or linda
<Spec> the only thing wrong with my package is the inclusion of CVS directories :-/
<LaserJock> Spec: source package built, .deb built via pbuilder, installs and works as expected
<Spec> ah, okay, yeah, they've been doing that for a while
<LaserJock> I usually do a dpkg -c on the .deb to make sure things are going where I think they are
<crimsun> Spec: clean install, removal. clean install of previous version, upgrade, removal. clean install of previous version, upgrade, downgrade to previous.
<LaserJock> yeah, that to :-)
<Spec> i've done everything except the downgrade part
<Spec> i'm not sure how to downgrade actually
<Spec> bah, manpage not compressed with max compression...description starts with package-name...
<Spec> well, i think i'm going to leave work now
<Spec> thanks for the help, i'll go work on them stupid errs later :p
<crimsun> oh boy, plateful of bugs.
* crimsun refills his water bottle and dives back into the fray.
<Bazzi> anything an ordinary peasant like me can do? ;)
<crimsun> last section of the topic here and in #ubuntu-bugs
<neutrinomass> This is quite trivial, but should I report a typo in a package description at debian's bugtracker instead of Malone ?
<crimsun> yes, attaching a debdiff that fixes it.
<neutrinomass> Hm... I'm not quite sure on the debdiff part (haven't found time to read on the packaging stuff .. )
<crimsun> doesn't have to be a debdiff per se but at least a diff
<neutrinomass> Thanks :)
<ajmitch> morning
<zul> evening
<LaserJock> late afternoon :-)
<jabra> anyone help me with an issue i'm having with sqlite3
<jabra> I have a db that I have inserted data into with perl
<jabra> file data.dbl
<jabra> data.dbl: SQLite database (Version 3)
<jabra> sqlite3 data.dbl
<jabra> SQLite version 3.2.8
<jabra> sqlite> .schema
<jabra> Error: unsupported file format
<bluefoxicy> file is fucking magic
<imbrandon> shhh bluefoxicy
<imbrandon> ajmitch: ping ( kmess )
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya Andrew
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<bddebian> Fair to midland, thanks.  You?
<ajmitch> average
<crimsun> it's going grrreat here
<crimsun> s/grrreat/ugh/g
<ajmitch> crimsun: lovely
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<bddebian> Great eh?
<crimsun> morning, ajmitch, bddebian
<ajmitch> well looks like the RC was a great & stressful time for all
<ajmitch> amd64 image blowing up in everyone's face
<bddebian> Aye
<ajmitch> tracked down to squashfs madness
<bddebian> Yeah, I caught some of that
<ajmitch> some quick & impressive debugging going on
<TheMuso> Still happening.
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> ack, a rash of Science bugs :/
<bddebian> LaserJock: Where?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/people/motuscience/+subscribedbugs of course
<bddebian> I was just there.  Most of them have been touched at least.  What do you see as new?
<bddebian> The maxima ones?
<LaserJock> 2 maxima, glpk, pybliographer, rasmol
<LaserJock> also some .desktops I see
<LaserJock> dang it, I don't have time for this :-)
<bddebian> The geda one is bogus I think
<bddebian> Should x10-automate really be in utilities category?
<LaserJock> hmm, I did an apt-cache show x10
<bddebian> Aye, me too :-)
<LaserJock> doesn't exactly look good use of dev time, if you know what I mean
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> hmm, so that geda bug should really be against gerbv
<bddebian> And I already uploaded the gerbv desktp file
<LaserJock> bddebian: well, that is for the debian bug
<bddebian> LaserJock: Huh?
<LaserJock> bddebian: the task that is open is to track the debian bug
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes, but click the bug link, it points to gerbv and not geda :-)  ANd why is it upstream instead of Debian? :-)
<LaserJock>  bddebian yeah, that is what I'm saying, that task is against the wrong package
<bddebian> aaaahhh :-)
<LaserJock> but it is fixed in the upsteam bug report or something, I can't change it
<bddebian> I know :-(
<LaserJock> grrr, I have to get going to bed :/
<bddebian> Ack, ksimus's desktop files are a mess
<bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
<crimsun> 'night jordan
<LaserJock> cya bddebian, I'll try to hit'm again tomorrow after I have "lab cleanup" with the boss :(
<LaserJock> good night daniel
<aoLAN> is it true that dapper will use runit instead of init?
<bddebian> Laser_away: No worries man :-)
<crimsun> "runit"? Where do people hear such tales?
<bddebian> Yeah, I thought we upgraded to "thinkit"? ;-P
<aoLAN> crimsun: they say it will boot faster
<aoLAN> crimsun: and runit is the fastest replacement for init
<crimsun> no, we're going to use keybukInit
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> aoLAN: seriously, though, it's sysvinit and udev ("hardwareactivation")
<aoLAN> crimsun: what is keybukInit?
<imbrandon> twas a joke
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<DarkMageZ> yay, another internode user!, hi shenki_
<aoLAN> crimsun: here it is: http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/05/03/2126222
<aoLAN_> crimsun: here it is: http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/05/03/2126222
<aoLAN_> crimsun: i was disconnected
<Laser_away> crimsun: have you had a chance to look at bug #43150 again? Debian has no problems and I hate just switching Lisp compilers but we really need to get it going. I'll catch up with you tomorrow. Thanks
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in wxmaxima "wxmaxima fails with error, can't connect to maxima" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<aoLAN_> crimsun: if you answered in the meantime, please paste your answer again
<imbrandon> aoLAN heh dident awnser while you were gone
<DarkMageZ> hmm, runit sounds interesting, but according to the comments below, it is buggy
<aoLAN_> imbrandon: you thought i was talking to you?
<imbrandon> aoLAN no i was telling yo crimsun dident anwser while you were gone ( disconnected )
<aoLAN_> imbrandon: i see, thank you
<imbrandon> hahaha i love this quote ( from down below on the article about runinit ) "I gave it a try on ubuntu dapper drake. It installed alright. After reboot, I didn't see any improvement om runlevel 1. The computer hang after switching to runlevel 2. I can't be bothered to solve that. I rebooted using init=/sbin/init.sysv which the original /sbin/init after installation of runit. A quick unistalled that's it. The author is right, you can install t
<imbrandon> . "
<aoLAN_> imbrandon: hehe
<aoLAN_> imbrandon: where the hell did you get that from?
<aoLAN_> imbrandon: oh, a comment below the article
<aoLAN_> (or did i get it wrong?)
<imbrandon> comment below the article
<imbrandon> actualy ALL the comments below the article are bad
<imbrandon> thats the only one about dapper thoughg
<aoLAN_> :)
<aoLAN_> bad = [saying runit is ] bad
<aoLAN_> bad = silly comments / trolls
<aoLAN_> ?
<cbx33> where is mplayer these days?
<DarkMageZ> universe
<cbx33> i get kmplayer
<cbx33> but mplayer is missing
<aoLANne> cbx33: "k" / "multimedia" / "video" (or something like that)
<aoLANne> cbx33: gnome must be something close to this
<freeflying|away> any motus can sponsor upload to main?thx
<cbx33> i can't find the mozilla plugin either
<dholbach> good morning motu world
<cbx33> mornin dholbach
<cbx33> anyone here a python thug :p
<dholbach> hey cbx33
<cbx33> howz you
<G0SUB> dholbach: there?
<dholbach> G0SUB: yes
<G0SUB> dholbach: can I PM you?
<dholbach> yes, you'll find you can. :-)
<dholbach> Sure
* Hobbsee watches nickserv come and arrest G0SUB for trying to PM dholbach 
<G0SUB> Hobbsee: PM is not Post Mortem :)
<Hobbsee> G0SUB: true...
* Mithrandir dons flak jacket and pokes Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> well...if i cant poke you, then what should i do Mithrandir?
<Mithrandir> unsure. :-P
* Hobbsee considers Mithrandir's exposed toes.
* Mithrandir quickly dons boots
* Hobbsee kicks Mithrandir gently in the shins instead, then.
<Lathiat> right time for some rc testing
<rob_> hello.  can we get xchat installed in the primary install for the next release of Ubuntu please?
<imbrandon> xchat-gnome is installed i think isnt it (if not probbly not with dapper  as its in a freeze )
<phanatic> good afternoon :)
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
* tseng wonders why they are building new images, already
<zul> tseng: because there ere problems with the cramfs images i believe
* tseng blames kerne
<tseng> l
<tseng> :D
<zul> :P
<zul> i blame cramfs
* Hobbsee blames CUPS and printers.
* `6og calls Hobbsee a troll ;) 
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee blames *everything* on CUPS and printers
<`6og> hehe
<zul> i blame mojo
* imbrandon agrees with Hobbsee on this one
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> wise imbrandon :P
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<`6og> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello `6og
<bddebian> ogra: Fired up my EdUbuntu live CD.. :-)
<bddebian> bbiab
<ogra> yay
<ogra> :)
<\sh> can someone handle the loop-aes-source sync https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-source/+bug/30230 or to whom I have to subscribe the bug to?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30230 in loop-aes-source "loop-aes module can't be created in Dapper Drake" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 
<hub> hey
<\sh> hey hub
<highvoltage> mgalvin: those google links on your blog entry doesn't seem to work anymore :/
<mgalvin> hmm :-/
* mgalvin checks
<highvoltage> (perhaps google changed their minds)
<highvoltage> they're probably struggling with the demands of being planeted :P
<mgalvin> haha :)
<mgalvin> hmm, they seem to work for me :-/
* mgalvin *shrugs*
<highvoltage> strange. i get a proper google error page.
<mgalvin> strange indeed
<mgalvin> if you just want to d/l the package i can put it up if you want
<highvoltage> nah, it's fine thanks. i'll try again later
<mgalvin> ok, well i stuck it here http://people.simplifiedcomplexity.com/~mgalvin/downloads/picasa_2.2.2820-5_i386.deb already anyway in case you want
<phanatic> in which package could i find libXm.so.3?
<persia> If I want to increase a defined constant in a library, does this represent an ABI change?  If so, should it definitely be sent upstream (of course, this wouldn't be applied to dapper...)
<persia> phanatic: It should be in libmotif3
<phanatic> persia: thanks, i'll try
<phanatic> persia: there's no libmotif3 package
<persia> phanatic: There is for AMD64 (today).  It's built by the openmotif source (in multiverse)
<phanatic> i have all repos enabled, and it's not available (i386)
<phanatic> persia: sorry, false alarm :)
<persia> phanatic: I was wondering.  Good luck!
<phanatic> i thought i had all repos enabled... multiverse was somehow left out :/
<bddebian> ogra: Around?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> (i'm also in #edubuntu (hint hint))
<tseng> zeroconf apt proxy? sweet
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm driving into school now, bbiab
<bddebian> LaserJock: NP
<bddebian> Hmm, what's the deal with UVFe's that are going to require ubuntu hacks anyway?  Do we still file them?
<bddebian> dholbach: ^^ ?
<dholbach> so new upstream version + ubuntu changes?
<bddebian> Aye
<dholbach> same process
<dholbach> it's a new upstream version
<bddebian> OK, thx
<dholbach> ok
<ajmitch> hm
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: booo
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<thierryn> I'm searching for a .jhbuildrc example file to build gnome 2.16, where could I get that? Google doesn't helped a lot
<LaserJock> thierryn: you sure this is the right place to ask that? I would look at the gnome website (as nasty as it is) :-)
<thierryn> k sorry :)
<LaserJock> np, I just don't know that your going to have much luck when most of use use the .debs
<LaserJock> I'm guessing anyway
<thierryn> LaserJock : are you a community member?
<thierryn> LaserJock : because I wonder if I should try to become one at the next community council, the 29
<LaserJock> thierryn: I am a member
<LaserJock> thierryn: do you have a wiki page?
<thierryn> thierryn : Ok, could you check my wiki page is ok : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThierryMoisan
<thierryn> if my wiki page is ok*
<thierryn> LaserJock
<LaserJock> thierryn_eating: more info, my page is at wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
<phanatic> hi people
<sivang> ogra: does dapper universe uploads still need manual kick to flow in?
<ogra> nope
<sivang> k, nice, so you should have the fix in about buildd time
<ogra> tahts only during iso preparation .. usually the topic in -devel tells you if uploads are queued or not
<sivang> k,thanks again :)
* sivang will check there next time
<Burgwork> siretart, ping
<Burgwork> slomo_, ping
<slomo_> Burgwork: pong
<crimsun> oh right, now to kick mxv
<bddebian> w00t
<bddebian> crimsun r0x
<iXce> hello
<LaserJock> hi iXce
<iXce> hi LaserJock
<iXce> i would like to know if a segfault has been reported >.>
<iXce> i can't find it on malone
<LaserJock> iXce: do you know what package/program it is in?
<iXce> drip ^^
<iXce> i asked 2 friends and it segfault on their setups too
<iXce> (dapper i386)
<LaserJock> iXce: ok
<LaserJock> iXce: is this your problem? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/drip/+bug/28557
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28557 in drip "Segfaults at startup" [Major,Fix released] 
<iXce> certainly
<iXce> shouldn't it be fixed, if a fix was released?
<LaserJock> yes
<iXce> then.. :/
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> if you are using 0.8.3.2+0.9.0-rc3-7ubuntu3 on i386 updated Dapper and it still segfaults in a similar fashion, reopen the bug
<LaserJock> bmonty!
<iXce> Version: 0.8.3.2+0.9.0-rc3-7ubuntu3
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<iXce> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hi iXce
<bmonty> any restrictions on uploading bugfixes?
<crimsun> no, fire away.
<bmonty> cool
<LaserJock> iXce: yeah, I'd reopen the bug. Just click on drip under "Affects" at the top and set the status to "Confirmed" with a detailed note on what is going on.
<iXce> okok
<iXce> do I need to add a gdb trace or something like that?
<crimsun> yes
<iXce> gdb drip / run / bt?
<LaserJock> sure
<iXce> thanks :)
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<LaserJock> iXce: and somebody else confirmed it right?
<iXce> yep
<iXce> at least two other people
<LaserJock> mention that too
<iXce> done, thanks :)
<LaserJock> iXce: thanks for following up with it
<iXce> thanks to you for helping me report it :p
<LaserJock> hmm, how is beta versioning usually handled, is there a standard way?
<crimsun> more context?
<LaserJock> crimsun: if I'm making a backage for a beta version of something
<LaserJock> *package
<crimsun> you could do it any number of ways, so no, there's no standard
<LaserJock> the original tarball comes out ast <name>-2.2-3.beta.4
<crimsun> the fourth beta of 2.2-3?
<crimsun> that's incredibly ugly if so
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> ack, 2.2-3beta4-0ubuntu1 looks terrible
<crimsun> that seems fine to me
<crimsun> when 2.2-3 is actually released, you just name it 2.2-3finalblahblahblah
<LaserJock> hehe, it will probably end up as 2.2-4betaX ;-=)
<LaserJock> some authors seem to love being in beta all the time
<Bluefox_> so
<Bluefox_> 1 January 2006
<Bluefox_> err.  June
<Spec> hey, neutrinomass, you worked on snes9express, right?
<neutrinomass> Spec : Hello. Not really worked on it, just hunted down gentoo's patches :)
<Spec> a DD sent me an e-mail, so i passed those patches forward to him
<Spec> he said they worked, but there's still another bug
<Spec> bug #46797
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46797 in snes9express "Error loading skin: fr_Image: could not load image" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46797
<neutrinomass> Hm...
<Spec> it doesn't crash it, you just can't change skins
<Spec> i doubt there will be a pre-existing patch for that :p
<neutrinomass> Spec : I don't think I can fix this. I can't do C++. I'll try to get a backtrace though ...
<Spec> hehe, i can't do C++ either
<Spec> bah, you have to rebuild the package with debugging symbols?
<neutrinomass> Spec : I'm doing so right now. It could be trivial problem. If it's not, I doubt I'm gonna fix it :)
<Spec> i'm rebuilding it now :p
<crimsun> packages are built, according to Policy, with debugging symbols. All you have to do is pass NOSTRIP.
<Spec> pass nostrip to what?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Really ? Then why does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash say how to build from source with debugging symbols ?
<crimsun> Spec: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS
<neutrinomass> crimsun: If that's the case, what's the purpose of the -dbg packages ?
<Spec> err
<crimsun> neutrinomass: not every package has a debug (unstripped) version
<Spec> don't you set that and then rebuild the package?
<crimsun> Spec: yes
<Spec> oh, okay
<crimsun> neutrinomass: that's precisely what I'm referring to
<Spec> that's what i did
<Spec> I get nothing at all, neutrinomass. It just spits out the error message at me in gdb
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Yes... if packages are built with debug symbols which are stripped at installation, why have seperate -dbg versions ?
<crimsun> neutrinomass: some libraries and programs /really/ need debug versions
<neutrinomass> Spec : I haven't taken a look into the source yet. I suppose you have to break in the functions and check at the filename that its trying to open ...
<Spec> I'd hope it was dynamic :p
<crimsun> neutrinomass: for instance, attempting to debug gtk and X programs would be even more of a nightmare otherwise
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Ahh, gotcha.... Stuff beyond the debug symbols then (i.e. -DDEBUG for instance). I guess you should update the wiki page then, to avoid users rebuilding stuff every time when something crashes ...
<Spec>   if(!pixbuf)
<Spec>     throw "fr_Image: could not load image";
<crimsun> neutrinomass: err, why update the wiki page?
<Spec> so if you set DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=NOSTRIP, you can just install a package and it'll have debugging symbols in the binary?
<crimsun> yes
<Spec> well, they didn't help :p
<crimsun> s/install/compile and install/
<crimsun> well I presume you're running it through gdb and the like?
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Because now when something crashes, people are usually referred to that page. Why should they recompile the program (as the wiki page instructs) if they can simply reinstall ?
<crimsun> neutrinomass: what would they reinstall?
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: you have to recompile the binary package with NOSTRIP, I believe
<neutrinomass> crimsun:  AFAIK it's only done to get debug symbols.  Ok. I'm not making this clear. Gaim crashes. I post "gaim crashes on startup" in malone. Random-bug-triager comes along, sees I have no backtrace, and refers me to that page so that I can get a proper backtrace. This wiki page now instructs users to recompile the package they want to debug. Why do this when they can reinstall the package (avoiding recompiling ) and simply pass the 
<crimsun> why? because there's no gaim-dbg
<crimsun> remember that at the end of every run dh_strip is called, which removes the debugging symbols /unless/ nostrip is passed
<neutrinomass> crimsun: Didn't you just say that 'gaim' is built with debug symbols ? If users pass "nostrip" and reinstall the pacakge, it will be reinstalled with debug symbols, right (sorry for not understanding this btw ) ?
<crimsun> neutrinomass: ok, you need to refer to Policy, which states that -g -O2 are used by default.
<LaserJock> crimsun: can you take out dh_strip rather than pass nostrip?
<Spec> 'backtrace' says 'No stack." :-/
<crimsun> LaserJock: dh_strip checks that.
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: ok, when the package is compiled from the source package  the symbols are included and then later striped
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: so normally dh_strip is called in debian/rules to remove the symbols when you make the .deb
<Spec> neutrinomass: we're doing it right, the wiki's correct :)
<Spec> although useless, at the same time
<LaserJock> neutrinomass: if you pass nostrip then when you recompile the source package the debug symbols will be preserved in the new .deb
<neutrinomass> LaserJock: Ahhhh. Um, so the policy is to build stuff with debug symbols and remove them prior to distributing?
<crimsun> yes
<LaserJock> correct
* neutrinomass thought the final, repo package, had symbols that were stripped during installation
<Spec> neutrinomass: that's what i thought for a little
* neutrinomass suspects there is a good reason to do this and shuts up
<crimsun> no, they're stripped prior to creating the deb.
<LaserJock> nope, it is when the .deb is actually being put together
<crimsun> see, this is the reason knowing the debhelper method is useful
<Spec> neutrinomass: I almost got it to work
<neutrinomass> I really have to read up stuff on packaging after my exams :(
<Spec> neutrinomass: I got skins to work....just comment out the throw exception
<Spec> I get a bunch of errors in terminal though,
<neutrinomass> Spec: Great. What line # did you comment out ?
<Spec> 490 and 491
<Spec> in frend.cc
<Spec> it's a check to see if pixbuf exists
<Spec> which is set right above it with: gdk_pixbuf_loader_get_pixbuf(loader);
<neutrinomass> Spec : Thanks. Just found it. Gimme a minute ..
<Spec> ack, i gotta go, i'll look at this some more later, maybe send an e-mail to the DD, he told me that he had "I removed skin support on the package and I will upload it this night because it has a FTBFS bug"
<dholbach> anybody from the croatian team here?
<iXce> gtg, gnight ;)
<LaserJock> hehe, its fun to see the scavanger hunt out in the hall after I put 6 PCs and 6 Monitors out there this morning :-)
<crimsun> LaserJock: hehe, nice
<LaserJock> crimsun: how do you test for more than one thing in a shell if statement?
<crimsun> LaserJock: depends which operator you want
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm looping over the contents of a directory, but I want to exclude a few directories
<crimsun> are you using find?
<LaserJock> I just did ls
<LaserJock> would find be better?
<crimsun> ls is probably acceptable. What are you trying to do?
<LaserJock> ok, basically I"m looking in a directory that has directories for each lang
<LaserJock> language
<LaserJock> but there are like 2 files and 1 directory that I don't want in the list of things to loop over
<crimsun> ok, you could use |grep -v [...]    to exclude those
<LaserJock> k, that makes sense
<crimsun> egrep is probably what you want
<crimsun> as in: egrep -v '(foo|bar)'
<crimsun> 'evening, mez
<Mez> indeed
<zul> heylo
<LaserJock> hi zul
<zul> hey LaserJock
<iXce> hi again >.>
<iXce> hm how do i use a debdiff please?
<crimsun> you'd apply it against a source package
<crimsun> (back in 20 minutes)
<iXce> okok, ty ^^
<iXce> just as a normal diff then
<iXce> merci chninkel_
<zakame> hi all
* Hobbsee waves to everyone
<zul> hey zakame and Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> how is it going?
<Hobbsee> all right - i have to go to work today :(
<zul> oh that sucks
* Hobbsee would far prefer to be fat and lazy and do nothing :P
<zul> except for ubuntu stuff right?\
<Hobbsee> hmm...yeah...
<bmonty> anyone have any experiences with dual-core amd64 and ubuntu?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> I've got one
<ajmitch> over there ------>
* ajmitch turns laptop round so arrow is pointing the right way
<bmonty> can you read the display now?
<ajmitch> hm?
<ajmitch> what do you mean?
<bmonty> I wanted to make sure you hadn't turned the laptop too far :)
<ajmitch> nope :)
<ajmitch> what is the issue?
<bmonty> I'm going to buy a new system and I looking at the dual core amd64 and I wanted to see if anyone was running one of them
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> plenty of us are
<ajmitch> mine's only a 4200+, but it does the job
<ajmitch> it works ok with a bit of RAM
<bmonty> AMD Opteron 180, 4GB RAM
* ajmitch can't recall what the 180 is
<ajmitch> but it should run ok, depends on what you want it for
<bmonty> it is going to be my desktop
<ajmitch> you're obviously out to spend a lot then
<bmonty> yeah, this is gonna cost some....I'm going for quad head too
<ajmitch> ah well, some people can afford it
<bmonty> bonuses are great :)
* ajmitch is just a poor, struggling student
<bmonty> been there, done that
<ajmitch> all I can afford is the 4200+ with 4GB of RAM, and dual-head
<ajmitch> woe is me ;)
* bmonty rolls his eyes
<bmonty> how can you stand it?
<ajmitch> I get by
<bmonty> I'm still trying to figure out how I am going to mount 4 19" LCDs on my desk :)
<ajmitch> it was bought due to the proceeds of a month doing C# coding though :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I've still got old CRTs on my desk
<ajmitch> I's probably be able to fit 3 19" LCDs on there at most
<bmonty> I'm currently using a CRT that I'm hoping makes it until the new gear arrives...it keeps flashing like it is being turned off, very annoying
<ajmitch> ouch
<bmonty> the mounting hardware for the screens is silly expensive too....I'm gonna have to build something myself
<ajmitch> I have a 21" ex-university CRT on my desk
<ajmitch> not great quality now
<bmonty> well this will be the best gear I've ever owned...so I'm trying to make sure I don't cut any corners
<ajmitch> we expect 10x the package output from you in edgy
<bmonty> heh, if I could manage to stay at home I might have some time to work on ubuntu :(
<ajmitch> true
<bmonty> my goals for edgy are to implement single sign on with LDAP and Kerberos
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> that's my SoC project :P
<bmonty> cool :)
<ajmitch> just to let you know ;)
<bmonty> I've got some Python bindings for libkrb5 that I've been working on
<ajmitch> yes, I've got those
<bmonty> what do you think of it so far?
<ajmitch> any suggestions you may have for me are welcome
<ajmitch> since I've got to spend the next 3 months working on this
<bmonty> I think there are a couple of basics needed to start...
<bmonty> like tools to add users/groups/etc, and something in the installer so that you can add the box into the SSO infrastructure
<bmonty> (I'm not sure I want to say "domain" :) )
<ajmitch> yes, it's a little hard to do in the installer
<ajmitch> given the policy of no questions asked
<ajmitch> tools for users/groups are on my hit list
<bmonty> I thought I would start with a tool (written in Python) that emulates the functionality of Kerberos for Windows
<ajmitch> of course python is a good choice
<bmonty> if you are planning on using the code I have been working on I'd like to support what you are doing by making sure the python stuff meets your needs
<bmonty> yeah, the more I use python the more I like it
<ajmitch> I'll have to check it in more detail
* ajmitch is probably going to try & start doing this seriously next week
<bmonty> well let me know if/how I can help
<ajmitch> the soc mailing list is full of crap already
<ajmitch> sure
* ajmitch doesn't have much kerberos experience yet to speak of
<bmonty> Kerberos is pretty easy to learn...the MIT libs are not well documented, and their API is weird IMO
<ajmitch> that's the fun part
<bmonty> the only problem I have had with getting Kerberos running on my network was an issue with DNS reverse look ups
<bmonty> once I fixed that it has worked great
* ajmitch can handle python & pygtk just fine though
<bmonty> it is very much like Active Directory in the requirement for DNS to work correctly
<ajmitch> so I'm at least not one of the students who has to learn everything before getting into it
<ajmitch> I have a win2k3 server setup in vmware to test against, too :)
<bmonty> yeah, being able to work with AD is probably important
<ajmitch> and simple enough
<ajmitch> a portion of this task is packaging changes to various parts of main, so that they can be configured to auth with debconf
<ajmitch> hacking up various pieces
<ajmitch> & then the server side
<ajmitch> I have to get the NetworkAuthentication spec fixed up by the 5th for it
<bmonty> if the amount of changes that you have to make to a "stock" ubuntu system to use LDAP+Kerberos can be reduced, I'm all for it :)
<ajmitch> they should be reduced as far as possible :)
<iXce> heh it's me again >.>
<bmonty> have you read any of the discussion about keberos using the linux keyring to store credentials?
<bmonty> hi iXce
<iXce> hi bmonty
<iXce> has anyone tried the firefox-themes-ubuntu package? it looks broken :/ however building it from source works flawlessly
<ajmitch> bmonty: linux keyring?
<bmonty> ajmitch: yeah, supposedly the kernel can store your credentials for you
<ajmitch> right, I wondered if that was what you meant
<ajmitch> sounds crackful enough for edgy
<ajmitch> if it's possible, why not? :)
<bmonty> ajmitch: crackful....I like that :)
* ajmitch wonders what mdz is on today
<ajmitch> adding a new package to ubuntu-desktop
<iXce> mdz?
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me if it's something sabdfl asked for
<crimsun> if it's this late, it probably is a mandate from the sabdfl
<ajmitch> I wonder if we'll change colour scheme to blue before release or something?
<bmonty> ajmitch: see http://pch.mit.edu/pipermail/krbdev/2006-April/004304.html
<ajmitch> thanks
<ajmitch> yeah, I was reading that thread :)
<bmonty> hi LaserJock
<crimsun> bmonty: It's fine by me to use 2.9.9d+e-pre2-5 (Malone #46851); daniel/sebastian/reinhard will have the ultimate say
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46851 in sl-modem "uvf-exception: sl-modem 2.9.9d-6 to 2.9.9d+e-pre2-5" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46851
<bmonty> crimsun: ??
<crimsun> bmonty: misdirect to stefan
<crimsun> (not quite sure how the 's' turned into a 'b' myself)
<bmonty> good night everyone
<iXce> gnight
<LaserJock> ack, he always leaves too fast
<ajmitch> far too fast
* ajmitch should just get him to do all the SoC stuff for me ;)
<iXce> LOL
<bockman> there is a bad security problem in Breezy/Hoary for openvpn (Bug #45827). i emailed the listed maintainer, but he says he doesn't work for ubuntu. how can i get this fixed?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827
<crimsun> I'll look at it.
<crimsun> bockman: the fix in 2.0.7 appears to not affect us, so I'll skip it. In the meantime, I'll look at stable-security.
<bockman> crimsun, i meant in Breezy/Hoary. They run versions 2.0.2 and 1.99, respectively, which both of need fixes
<crimsun> yes, I know. See my second statement.
<bockman> just wanted to clarify.
<crimsun> I'll submit them to -review along with the openmotif one.
<crimsun> In the meantime, dinner.
<iXce> gnight, bye
<LaserJock> hmm, is it bad form to have a .deb install files into /tmp ?
<crimsun> quite. /tmp is nuked every boot.
<LaserJock> it is used temporary for postinst I think
<crimsun> does it actually /install/ files there, or does it just use /tmp as scratch space?
<LaserJock> well, I'll have to check but dpkg -c shows files in /tmp
<crimsun> ugh.
<LaserJock> well, this is a bit interesting but I'm trying create a package for some proprietary software that is shipped as .debs
<LaserJock> so I will have .debs in my .deb :S
<crimsun> um...
<crimsun> it'd be better to make a metapackage
<LaserJock> yeah, but there is no source pacackage, only .debs
<LaserJock> so it is like java, acroread, etc.
<crimsun> are you pulling them from the ubuntu repo?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> they are in the .orig.tr.gz
<crimsun> you're setting yourself up for a lot of pain.
<LaserJock> it is obviously going into multiverse
<zakame> hi all
<ajmitch> hey zakame
<zakame> heya ajmitch ! :D how's network-auth? =)
<neutrinomass_> Spec_: Are you here ?
<phanatic> hi people
<Hobbsee_away> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee_away
<phanatic> hi people
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<zul> heylo
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> hey Hobbsee what are you up to?
<Hobbsee> zul: not a lot, home from work.
<Hobbsee> they told me off :P
<zul> well you didnt want to be there as of last night wasnt it? :)
<Hobbsee> earlier today
<Hobbsee> well, true...
<Hobbsee> fortunately, it was a nice telling off, not a horrible one
<zul> what do you do?
* Hobbsee shrugs
<Hobbsee> apparently i put thru a $700 transaction with a stolen credit card - and i thought the signatures matched, so i'm not sure what happened there
<Hobbsee> got a secret shopper - had them give a rather interesting description of me, and whinge about a couple of bits
<Hobbsee> had a really stupid customer coming through too...*mutters*
<zul> doh..
<Hobbsee> couple of other bits and pieces, you know :P
<zul> hehe
<Hobbsee> oh, and telling me to slow down handling money, as i was supposedly losing some of it
<Hobbsee> (how much, i'd like to know!)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lifeless]  by ChanServ
<bddebian> Heya gang
<tuxmaniac> bddebian: booo
<bddebian> Heh, hi tuxmaniac
* Hobbsee throws a penguin at bddebian 
* bddebian ducks
* tuxmaniac throws a kangaroo at Hobbsee 
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
* Hobbsee throws a koala at tuxmaniac 
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello phanatic
* Hobbsee hands a koala at bddebian to throw at tuxmaniac 
<bddebian> haha
* tuxmaniac rund
* tuxmaniac runs
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: so you should, before you get all cut up!
<Hobbsee> sharp claws, those...
<tuxmaniac> heh
<Hobbsee> er, hands a koala to bddebian to throw at tuxmaniac
<jpatrick> you said that
<Hobbsee> no, i said at, not to
* Hobbsee wonders why her head is hurting
* tuxmaniac knows the answer.. ^^
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> darn those kangaroos!
* Hobbsee defenestrates tuxmaniac 
* tuxmaniac googles for the meaning of fefenestrates
<Hobbsee> hehe.  defenestrate.
<tuxmaniac> throw something out!!!!!!!!!! :-(
* Hobbsee always tries to stick one random word in each set of exams she has to do.  defenestrate has been one, procrastination has been the other.
<Hobbsee> it's the act of throwing something or someone out of a window, yes.
* tuxmaniac thanks google and moves on with his work
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee couldnt seem to succeed with getting antidisestablishmentarianism in there though - she didnt sit the exam where she could have put that in!
* tuxmaniac requests someone to ask Hobbsee to speak english.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> ich nicht spreke english
* tuxmaniac confirms the reason for Hobbsee 's headache
<Hobbsee> and no, dont any native german speaker critisize my grammar :P
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: wikipedia is your friend.  so is dictionary.com
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
* Yagisan mumbles something about other non *NIX devs breaking the build system 12 hours before a release is due out
<Yagisan> evening Hobbsee.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: finished throwing livestock around ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: heh.  possibly.
<Yagisan> back in a sec. need to extract a little girl from her bath
<Hobbsee> er...how old's your little girl?  you left her in the bath alone?
<Hobbsee> on second thoughts, scratch that - i dont want to know
<bddebian> heh
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: shes 2, and shes with mum. problem is she is kicking and screaming - hence daddy had to forcibly extract her
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah, okay :)
* Hobbsee didnt think the idea of sudden deaded Yagisan junior was a good idea.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: now to brush her teeth. personally, I'd rather juggle chainsaws, as it's less painful for me
<Hobbsee> hehe!
* Yagisan wonders why little girls can be so violent
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: there are reasons.  You *dont* want to know.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: other parents I know say their kids hate their baths, mine never want to leave them.
<bddebian> My kids love the bath
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: anyway, are you familiar with automake, I've a dumb question, that I didn't see any hints to in the manual
<bddebian> Yagisan: Still no luck with that thing?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: er, i think i got asked to test it *ages* and ages ago...so i might have a chance
<Yagisan> bddebian: evening :) I'm sure to have more dumb questions for you later
<Yagisan> bddebian: I've put last nights thing on hold until after the kids are in bed
<bddebian> Ah :-)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I need to add a rule to zip up 3 directories before building. I usually do it in debian/rules, but now need to put it in the official build scripts
<Hobbsee> mmm okay - no idea, sorry...
* Hobbsee never worked that much with it
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: ok. bddebian, how about you :)
<bddebian> Yagisan: What do you mean by "official build scripts"?  You mean the Makefiles?
<Yagisan> bddebian: yep. into the makefile.am or configure.ac
<Yagisan> brb. next kid in bath
<bddebian> Yeah I gotta get mine dressed etc.  I would say add a check for whatever zip you want to use to configure.ac and add your zip commands to makefile.am but I'm guessing to some degree :-)
<Yagisan> bddebian: yes. I gathered that, I just don't see where I'd add them to makefile.am (I'm by no means clued up on automake, I've been to busy reading the autoconf manuals etc)
<caravena> /join #lugdunum
<chillywilly> anyone know anything about Ubuntu oGo packages?
<sladen> chillywilly: oGo?
<chillywilly> opengroupware.org
<sladen> chillywilly: is that different to egroupware and phpgroupware?
<chillywilly> yes
<tuxmaniac> hi guys.. is there a way to change/add all license headers of all source files in a package?
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: in gedit, turn on snippets, make sure the document is in "C" mode, then type gpl and press tab. instant gpl header
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: thanks. Btw how are you. long time no see?
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: I need to know whether I can add this header at one shot to all src files?
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: stressed and busy.
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: yourself ?
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: also how to change an email ID which is already present in the current file
<tuxmaniac> Yagisan: doing good. Not stressed but busy :)
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: I'd manually do them 1 by 1 myself.
<tuxmaniac> Any automatic way like dch etc?? ;)
<tuxmaniac> dch does that good for changelog.. Something similar must be present.. :(
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: I should be in bed now, but I have a software release in < 24hrs, and the Win & Mac developers broke the *NIX build scripts but tossing in a new feature
<tuxmaniac> hmm. sorry to disturb you then :)
<Yagisan> tuxmaniac: no worries. I'm doing the most awful hack to configure.ac you could imagine to fix it.
<bluefoxicy> http://www.designers.co.yu/bsod.jpg  This reminds me of early Ubuntu calendar
<bluefoxicy> I could see Ubuntu having a Boob Screen of Death
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy: looks fake
<tuxmaniac> bluefoxicy: heh
<Yagisan> bluefoxicy: not the shirt
* Yagisan is easily distracted at the moment
<crimsun> holy $deity, alsa-lib borkage in sid
#ubuntu-motu 2006-05-28
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock, what's happening?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I'm actually working on a bit of a freelance packaging job
<bddebian> Cool
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I got the gig yesterday and I have to have it done by Monday :/
<bddebian> LaserJock: You are just a glutton for punishment aren't you? :-)
<LaserJock> bddebian: needed to pay for my passport :/
<zul> how do you sign a dsc file?
<bddebian> Can't you use debsign or whatever it's called?
<zul> yeah
<zul> LaserJock: who is the gig with?
<LaserJock> honestly, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say
<LaserJock> you'll probably know when it hits multiverse :-)
<bddebian> Oh no, it's Sun :-)
<LaserJock> no
<bddebian> Adobe then
* bddebian shuts up now :-)
<LaserJock> I had to take a look at that package though, holy cow, I wouldn't want to do that package
<LaserJock> no, nobody that big
<bddebian> Hello whiprush
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> LaserJock: man, I wish I got packaging jobs like that ;)
<ajmitch> unless you've cleared it with kamion already, good luck get anything new into the archive now
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, it isn't much and it is a real pain because it is propriatary
<LaserJock> ajmitch: Canonical and the company have an "understanding", I have been told
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> and they picked you
<ajmitch> I'm impressed
<LaserJock> well, all the real devs are busy with the release
<bddebian> Heh
<LaserJock> I wasn't the first person they asked ;-)
<ajmitch> since the rest of us aren't real devs ;)
* bddebian isn't
<zul> i love being in the dark...meh...;)
* ajmitch obviously isn't
* ajmitch should just get back to his menial, thankless tasks
<bddebian> ajmitch: At least you get a modicum of respect :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I do? from who?
<bddebian> Well me for one
<ajmitch> heh
* zul plays a violin ;)
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> bddebian: see how he mocks me? :)
<zul> hehe
<bddebian> heh
<zul> me...noooo..
<ajmitch> yes, you
<ajmitch> sitting there with a mocking look
<zul> hehe..
<ajmitch> makes me wonder why I bother around here :P
<zul> because you like to be mocked thats why :)
<ajmitch> no I don't
<zul> yes you do
<zul> this reminds me of the argument sketch
<ajmitch> it's not an argument, it's just contradiction!
<zul> no it isnt
<ajmitch> I wish to file a complaint
<zul> You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through
* ajmitch already seems to be in the abuse section
<zul> If you complain nothing happens you migh as well not bother
<ajmitch> stop cutting & pasting ;)
<zul> http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> it's much more fun if you watch it
<zul> my memory isnt what it use to be
<zul> or listent to it
<zul> youtube.com has it apparently
<ajmitch> probaly requires flash
<zul> probaly
<ajmitch> my desktop box doesn't do flash or java
<zul> ah..
<ajmitch> & I'd have to walk about 2 metres to get the laptop
<ajmitch> which is rather inconvenient
<zul> its a meter and a half for me
<ajmitch> was approximately that, I was mistaken :)
<bddebian> mmm port wine cheese...
<zul> you should take one of those circular rules and check
<ajmitch> http://youtube.com/watch?v=yk4NSQyAFjI&search=monty%20python
<ajmitch> hm
<zul> heh...with the sound off i can tell what they are saying which is eerie
<ajmitch> sad
<zul> yeah that as well
<zul> oh i wonder if they have the spqnish inquistion
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> full lumberjack song, including the psycotic barber ;)
<zul> hehe
<bddebian> Don't you two big "main" types have any work to do?
* bddebian hides
<ajmitch> no, I'm not a real developer :)
<tseng> har har
<bddebian> Heya tseng
<tseng> hi
<tseng> "main" developers dont do anything
<bddebian> Sweet, maybe I will get selected then ;_0
<bddebian> Uhm, that was ;-P
<tseng> you have to do nothing with style
<bddebian> Oh, I'm screwed then
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> sorry.
<bddebian> ajmitch: See and you think you get no respect :-)
<tseng> i just tell it like it is
<bddebian> Gee thx
<ajmitch> glad to be of service
<tseng> bddebian: if the meeting is at a sane hour ill vote for you
<bddebian> Yeah, I could tell.. :-)
<tseng> I'll even buy you dinner if you pass
<tseng> if you come to my side of town that is
<bddebian> I already told you I'd buy if we ever hook up
<tseng> did you?
<tseng> ok
<tseng> i dont really go out your way
<tseng> is KOP convenient?
<tseng> its like 30 minutes from me
<bddebian> I pass by almost every day
<tseng> or 40
<tseng> not as bad as Valley Forge
<tseng> or whatever it was
<bddebian> I thought you were in KoP?
<tseng> no
<tseng> Glen Mills
<bddebian> Ah
<tseng> Brandywine Valley, baby
<tseng> yuppieville, usa
<bddebian> Then how'd you become a long-haired hippy commie? ;-P
<tseng> i am no such thing
<tseng> I am a Republican
* tseng ducks for cover
<tseng> I just had a hair cut today, as well
<bddebian> Ack, not possible.. :)
<tseng> ?
<bddebian> I'm joking
<bddebian> I tend to vote Republican as well :-)
<tseng> If we could instate Ronald Reagan as supreme dictator for life
<tseng> I would be in heaven
<bddebian> But, but, we're the "Evil Empire".. :)
<tseng> fine with me
<bddebian> Wow, I knew there was something I liked about you :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<zul> whoa...them are some quality icons
<tseng> jdub's last.fm is embarassing
<tseng> http://www.last.fm/user/jdubjdub/
* LaserJock waves to tseng and bddebian 
<tseng> hi LaserJock
<ajmitch> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> I thought being a Republican disqualified people from working on Linux ;-)
<tseng> not really.
<tseng> open source and trickle down economics aren't mutually exclusive
<LaserJock> maybe it's cause I talk to to many liberal Canukistanies
<LaserJock> :-)
<tseng> well, I will grant you that a large majority of oss contributors are lefties
<tseng> usually far-left
<ajmitch> extremely far-left at times
<tseng> but on software we are all on the same page
<bddebian> Heya again LaserJock
<bddebian> LaserJock: I used to think so too :-)
<ajmitch> bunch of communists
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> yeah.
<zul> communism is good for you
<tseng> i was going to write a paper for school
<zul> gives you pep
<bddebian> Sure is, ask the Chinese :)
<tseng> on why socialism works for software, but sucks for government
<bddebian> Or the North Koreans
<tseng> i dropped out of school and got a job instead
<ajmitch> we had falun gong people protesting against the chinese here in town today :)
<LaserJock> tseng: oh, I'd be interested in that
<tseng> communism in china is a farse
<tseng> they are a bunch of filthy capitalists just like the rest of us
<ajmitch> they just happen to be more openly totalitarian
<tseng> they cant control the population forever
<tseng> I think the current submissiveness is partly cultural
<tseng> and will end in our lifetime
<bddebian> Aye
<bddebian> Then they will probably take over the world :-)
<tseng> its a good time to start studying chinese, at least
<LaserJock> it has been interesting watching the foreign grad students in my department (about half of the grad students)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Why's that?
<tseng> bddebian: foreign students don't fuck around
<LaserJock> none of the chinese students I know what to go back, but the South Koreans, Japanese, and Filipino students do often times
<LaserJock> s/what/want/
<LaserJock> that to me says something
<tseng> i think your sentence is all screwed up
<LaserJock> yeah?
<bddebian> Aye :-)
<tseng> it doesnt make sense
<tseng> the way you wrote it
<LaserJock> sorry
<tseng> please try again :)
<LaserJock> the Chinese grad students don't want to leave the US and go back home, it is more of an escape to come here for them
<tseng> oh
<bddebian> I think what he is saying is that the Chineses students rarel wish to return to China while the others mentioned return to their respective countries
<tseng> i got it
<tseng> i missed "none"
<tseng> i read it as "most"
<LaserJock> whereas the Koreans, Japanese, and Filipino students often say they want to go back and help their country out
<LaserJock> but that is only my fairly limited experience
<bddebian> LaserJock: I keep meaning to ask you.  What school are you at?
<tseng> I have never been to an eastern country
<LaserJock> University of Nevada, Reno
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> tseng: You've never been to Canukistan?
* bddebian hides
<tseng> haha
<tseng> not eastern europe
<tseng> I have no interest in going there
<LaserJock> what I thought New York was an eastern country ;-)
<tseng> I actually havent been to New York either
<tseng> only en route to Boston
<bddebian> Actually upstate New York is beautiful
<Hobbsee> hi tseng and bddebian
<bddebian> I have no desire to see NY City
<tseng> hi Hobbsee
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<LaserJock> I've been to NY City once, tbh it just seemed dirty and crowded
<tseng> a few of my friends from school went to college in new york city
<LaserJock> but I'm just a hick from Montana so...
<bddebian> heh
<tseng> i am going to Phoenix next week
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes, I spent a week or so there
* ajmitch watches firefox decide to crash on the laptop
<tseng> this is awful
<tseng> last-exit, last.fm player
<ajmitch> for once I'm glad I have the session saver extension loaded
<tseng> instead of using the gtk+ 2.6 ellipsize widget on long song titles
<tseng> it makes the window twice as big
<tseng> every time i notice iain is offline
<bddebian> iain?
<tseng> he wrote it
<tseng> ill try to upload this to edgy
<tseng> its stableish
<bddebian> Ah
<tseng> if he makes a release
<ajmitch> still waiting on patches from lewing
<tseng> :(
<ajmitch> I hope they come in before uploads are stopped
<tseng> really.
<tseng> some guy just filed some odd crasher
<tseng> i hate those
<ajmitch> no details at all?
<tseng> it has a useless trace
<tseng> oh
<tseng> i see what it is
<tseng> wrong sqlite version
<ajmitch> beagle?
<tseng> f-spot
<tseng> 46942
<ajmitch> hm
<tseng> he has an old db
<tseng> or something
<ajmitch> how annoying
<tseng> thats what I thought
<ajmitch> either that or I screwed up the last upload
<ajmitch> which is certainly possible
<tseng> it works for me.
<tseng> cvs has a tango icon btw
<tseng> if you are into that sort of thing
<bddebian> A tango icon?
<tseng> s'what i said
<bddebian> I know, I'm asking what a tango icon is?
<Amaranth> tango style
<tseng> tango-project.org
<tseng> it has a common palette and style
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> Hello Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi
<tseng> it is alot of work ripping off all the suse 10.1 artwork
<ajmitch> quite
<tseng> i think i have the complete set now
<tseng> i should make a proper tarball
<tseng> oh
<tseng> f-spot copies things to ~/Photos now
<ajmitch> it has for quite awhile
<tseng> hm
<tseng> beagle search is taking forever
<tseng> ah
<tseng> it throws an exception
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you around?
<tseng> hi LaserJock
<tseng> uh
<tseng> hi Lathiat
<tseng> bddebian: you know what
<tseng> bddebian: we could have a greater philly release party
<bddebian> Just you and me? :-)
<Lathiat> howdy tseng :)
<tseng> hannah walach lives in philly
<bddebian> I think Jaldhar is in Jersey isn't he?
<tseng> i am sure there has to be some others
<ajmitch> pity there's not more ubuntu people in NZ
<Lathiat> i wish there was more ubuntu people in perth
<Lathiat> everyone else is on the east coast :(
<LaserJock> nor NV :(
<tseng> Lathiat: dude
<tseng> Lathiat: the whole UCC is bonkers for ubuntu
<bddebian> tseng: Where would we have it?
<tseng> arent you in with them?
<tseng> bddebian: KOP
<bddebian> Of course ;-P
<Lathiat> tseng: oh i meant people that are involved :)
<tseng> Lathiat: oh haha
<Lathiat> theres plentyt of users
<Lathiat> and yeh i knwo all the ucc guys
<tseng> i am rooming with davyd and guadec
<Lathiat> i've been going to ucc sine i was in like year 9 in high school
<Lathiat> despite the fact its a university computer club ;)
<Lathiat> tseng: oh cool
<bddebian> 9 years of High School?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: we can have a release party while you're in AU - you'll get your turn :P
<bddebian> :-)
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: want to join us?
<tseng> "9th grade"
<Lathiat> bddebian: we have primary school years 1-7 and then years 8-12 high-school
<Lathiat> yeh "9th grade" works
<Lathiat> we call it "year 9" here more commonly :)
<Lathiat> Hobbsee: in guadec?
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: no, on the east coast
<bddebian> Lathiat: I know, I was kidding you :-)
<Lathiat> oh, hehe
<Lathiat> bddebian: ;p
<Hobbsee> sorry, was afk, and finally came back
<Lathiat> maybe some time
<Lathiat> if i run out of work in perth
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: except that it's a month past release
<Hobbsee> bah.  so?
<Hobbsee> belated release party :P
<tseng> bddebian: http://www.phillylinux.org/
<ajmitch> by that stage dapper will be obsolete & unfashionable
<Lathiat> heh
<bddebian> tseng: You a member?
<tseng> no
<tseng> PLUG West events are held in the western suburbs of Philadelphia, typically in Chester County. If you are interested in Linux but haven't been able to make it to Philadelphia on a Wednesday evening, why not try coming to a meeting?
<tseng> but this is very interesting
<bddebian> Ah
<tseng> PLUG West is in Malvern
<tseng> PLUG is in downtown
<bddebian> Malvern is an easy drive for me
<tseng> cool
<tseng> do you know Unisys
<tseng> its at their office
* Hobbsee would have thought that most people would accept any excuse for a party, and beer drinking :P
<bddebian> I know of the company
<tseng> http://www.phillylinux.org/locations/unisys.html
<bddebian> Hobbsee: :-)
<tseng> the next plug west meeting in 6/19
<bddebian> Cool Might have to check that out.
<bddebian> Don't know if I want to hang around a bunch of lefty commie Linuxers though? ;-P
<tseng> i gave a talk last year for a big lug event
<tseng> i lived
<Hobbsee> hehe
<azeem> bddebian: you know you want it
<tseng> the managed to get 200 people to come out
<Hobbsee> but bddebian might not be so lucky, if they've heard of his reputation
<tseng> i co-starred with Russel Coker if you are familiar
<Hobbsee> what's the wiki page again?  :P
<Lathiat> tseng: what on?
<tseng> Lathiat: hardening linux
<Lathiat> tseng: figures :)
<Lathiat> (coker)
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> he wanted to visit WalMart
<tseng> of all places
<ajmitch> strange man
<bddebian> hehe
<tseng> the guy novell sent was a snore
<tseng> manoj was there, but didnt speak
<bddebian> What a surprise :-)
<tseng> he ran the KSP
* ajmitch has met russell a few times now
<tseng> oh
<tseng> jrb was there
<tseng> i think thats him
<tseng> rpm guy
* Hobbsee has never met anyone :(
<tseng> Hobbsee: meet me, I am amazing
<Hobbsee> hehe
<tseng> I mean..
<tseng> what part of au are you in again
<Hobbsee> sydney
<tseng> er
<tseng> so why werent you at UDU
<Hobbsee> i only started using linux later that year...
<Hobbsee> and a lack of car/licence would have also had an effect on that :P
<ajmitch> yes, UDU
<ajmitch> fun
* StevenK wasn't using Ubuntu at the time of UDU.
<tseng> aj and i could have given you the finger
<ajmitch> hah
<StevenK> Anyway, I'd just came back from LCA.
* Hobbsee pokes StevenK with a long stick
<ajmitch> StevenK: no excuse
<StevenK> Ouch
<tseng> StevenK: we ran into people from lca
<StevenK> ajmitch: IE: Work would probably not given me the time off.
<tseng> i happened upon jelmer at a resteraunt in sydney
<tseng> by pure luck
<tseng> I have no idea how it happened
<tseng> I didnt realize I had already met him on irc until months later, too
<tseng> he showed me a picture of me sitting next to him
<tseng> small world
<ajmitch> & then I met him in dunedin at LCA
<Hobbsee> hehe - and then it became pretty obviuos
<ajmitch> except that was planned
<tseng> Hobbsee: yeah not much arguing with that
<StevenK> Wah.
<StevenK> I've had a bug I've been meaning to file for 11 days now.
<ajmitch> why did I get about 10 f-spot bugs in 2 days
<tseng> ajmitch: people got tired of filing beagle bugs?
<StevenK> "Printers device nodes are created with group lp, but the first user isn't in group lp."
<ajmitch> they must have
* ajmitch rejects *
<StevenK> ajmitch: So now Dapper can be released with no bugs since you just closed them all?
<tseng> Mithrandir: http://planetob.openmonkey.com/ < planet openbox
<tseng> Mithrandir: there are some lamers on there, but good themes come up
<ajmitch> StevenK: sure
<ajmitch> if the launchpad page loads
* StevenK ponders if his bug has any hope of being fixed.
<tseng> i wish i still had my screenshot of launchpad back in the day
<tseng> where it said there were 0 bugs ever reported in ubuntu
<Lathiat> heh
<StevenK> Heh
<LaserJock> not even #1?
<Hobbsee> hehe
<tseng> no, that wasnt against Ubuntu
<tseng> or something
<LaserJock> ah
<tseng> or the count wasnt rigged up
<tseng> there wasnt much working on launchpad 2 years ago
<tseng> or whatever it was
<ajmitch> it's improved a little
<StevenK> Only a little?
<Hobbsee> heh, a little.
* ajmitch is still trying to load a bug page
* StevenK is waiting for mirroring to move into LP so complete chaos can ensue.
<Hobbsee> what's with people wanting to upgrade to mostly non-existant releases?
<Lathiat> what they want to upgrade to edgy? :)
<ajmitch> aren't you going to dist-upgrade to edgy in a week?
<StevenK> How can a release be mostly non-existant?
<Hobbsee> Lathiat: no, they wanted kde4
<Lathiat> Hobbsee: oh, heh
<Hobbsee> StevenK: parts of it are done - most isnt
<StevenK> Is that like calling a fish a little bit wet?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well...i'll tripple boot, yeah
<crimsun> require x.org 7.1 and kde 4 and linux 3.0!!!
<Lathiat> im waiting for the flood next week of "we want edgy" ;)
<Lathiat> crimsun: heh
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee will be like that :p
<crimsun> lo barry
<ajmitch> since obviously edgy will have all the best crack
<StevenK> Lathiat: Assign them all to sabdfl. ;-P
<bddebian> tseng: Let me know if you are serious about a local release party!
<tseng> bddebian: i am
<tseng> bddebian: but i am not serious about organizing it
<tseng> so I have a feeling..
<bddebian> Gah
<tseng> we are in trouble :)
* ajmitch might just stay here in NZ & drink alone then
<StevenK> ajmitch: Why? Are you the only Ubuntu user in .nz?
<ajmitch> StevenK: yep
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: how about you install ubuntu on all the flat's computers, and then celebrate with them?
<ajmitch> maybe I can commiserate together with mpt
<Hobbsee> haha - no he isnt :P
* Hobbsee found another NZ user in #kubuntu
<tseng> no idea what happened to Brandy Westcott
<tseng> she disappeared from teh earth
* StevenK needs to kick mpt about the about-ubuntu spec.
* StevenK is seriously pondering taking over it.
<ajmitch> tseng: probably reappeared under another name where she wouldn't be harassed by gentoo users
<StevenK> Heh
<tseng> hahah.
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> hehe - that wouldnt surprise me
<StevenK> ajmitch: Like "Bob Westcott" :-P
<ajmitch> most likely
<Amaranth> heh, any of you in the SoC group?
<Amaranth> first day it people were on it someone asks "any girls here?"
<tseng> haha
<tseng> Hobbsee gets hit on all the time around here
<Amaranth> hehe
<tseng> it is tough to be a girl
<Amaranth> dapper rc iso in 19 minutes
<Amaranth> *drool*
<Lathiat> lol Amaranth
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> tseng: so does this mean that i should not want to meet any of you in person?
<tseng> Hobbsee: I'm kidding!
<tseng> Mary survived us
<Amaranth> I once played an online space game pretending to be a woman, just to see what would happen.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I wouldn't trust any of them
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: that's the point where you're supposed to say "no, girls dont exist" and provide the supplimentary link
<Amaranth> Got asked some really...dirty questions.
<Lathiat> Amaranth: joining #teens as 'lisa17f' is a more interesting experiment, 3 seconds and 30 query windows later...
<Amaranth> heh
<bddebian> hehe
<Amaranth> the game is full of people calling each other 'n00b', 'kid', etc
<Lathiat> then just say something like '17 f, cam, want to chat?" and you get 50 more ;)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: sad
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: urgh, yuck.  i hate being asked them.
* Hobbsee never answers :P
<Amaranth> i usually turn off the chat window when i play that game, it's fun otherwise
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: hehe, i came up with some interesting answers
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: do i want to know what they were?  you could give me some good ideas for when i next get hit on :P
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: at least you know where to go when you want a date? ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: haha.  i have many choices for that, it seems :P
<Hobbsee> it's not really the online version that's disturbing - the versions in person are far more disturbing!
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: the answers usually involved two goats and something that runs on batteries :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I get hit on in RL all the time :-)
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: hehe.  i cant even begin to imagine some of the responses you'd get after that...
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: "that's gross", "you're weird", "*silence*"
<Amaranth> more vulgar, but that's what it breaks down to
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee now has a few new ideas on what to tell the people at work, whenever we get the next sleaze in.  thanks Amaranth!
<Amaranth> hehe
<Hobbsee> very useful :P
<Amaranth> happy to help :D
<Hobbsee> haha - want to go bash them up too?
<bddebian> Uh oh, she's bashing again..
<Hobbsee> bddebian: why, did you deserve bashing up?
<ajmitch> of course
<bddebian> I wondered who was going to get there first? :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: we know you wouldn't
<Hobbsee> hehe
* bddebian feels soo loved
<ajmitch> but you are
<bddebian> By my kids maybe :-)
<ajmitch> and here, of course :)
* LaserJock gives bddebian a hug
<bddebian> Heh
<Hobbsee> hmm...no, i'ts not hug day yet is it?
<Hobbsee> guess hug day this week is gone though :P
<bddebian> Every day is hug day :-)
<Hobbsee> poor bddebian, no hugs for him with the hug day
<ajmitch> every day is hug day!
* Hobbsee hugs ajmitch and bddebian 
<Hobbsee> there you go :P
<bddebian> Aww, thx
<chillywilly> silly open source hippies ;)
<Hobbsee> heh
<chillywilly> it's all about the love isn't it?
<Hobbsee> hi chillywilly
<bddebian> Heh.. Heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes, you commie
<chillywilly> lol
<Hobbsee> oh dear, i think i screwed my wrist up again - i should probably stop typing :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: could be a good idea
<chillywilly> I just installed opengroupware and all I have to say is that open source groupware needs polishing...
<Hobbsee> bah.   maths assignment looks more evil - i'll stay here
<crimsun> there are a number of "alternate" keyboard mappings that may help with wrist discomfort
<chillywilly> how about just take a break from the computer for a while ;)
<chillywilly> that's what I do
<chillywilly> :)
<Hobbsee> hmmm...feeling my fingers, i think it's due to cold :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<chillywilly> my wrist was killing me
* bddebian is sooo tempted... ;-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: hmm?
<chillywilly> sorr dude, it's *typing* related
<chillywilly> sorry*
<Hobbsee> on second thoughts, i dont wnat to know!
<bddebian> Exactly :-)
<chillywilly> you're a sick old man
<bddebian> Yep
* Hobbsee thumps bddebian for even thinking of such a thing.
<Hobbsee> let alone actually saying it
<bddebian> I never said it
<Hobbsee> aluding to it, whatever...
<chillywilly> implying....
<Hobbsee> that's the one
<LaserJock> oh ok, anybody know of any debconf guides/tutorials
<crimsun> hi, let me intro you to http://www.fifi.org/doc/debconf-doc/tutorial.html
<LaserJock> crimsun: ah, beautiful
<crimsun> I strongly recommend you bookmark http://www.fifi.org/documentation/
<LaserJock> roger that
<chillywilly> fifi.org? that's a funny domain
<chillywilly> :)
<crimsun> yeah, those silly open source hippies have all the crazy domains
<chillywilly> make me think of a little poodle
<chillywilly> makes
<chillywilly> that was a joke
<chillywilly> ANYWAY
<LaserJock> lol
<bddebian> OK, time for this dirty old man to go to bed.  Gnight folks
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
* Hobbsee waves to the remains of bddebian
<Hobbsee> bah.    please tell me that launchpad is working!
<crimsun> it's not. (502)
<Hobbsee> :(
<Hobbsee> i thought i heard that it was fixed.  maybe i'm delusional...
<crimsun> yeah, I'm attempting to triage, too, which makes it difficult
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> i *just* discovered a patch to fix the kopete configure crash.  and can do nothing about it :P
<tuxmaniac> Very slow launchpad :(
<robitaille> yeah...it's seems to be dying since a few minutes ago
<crimsun> gah, No, Not Right When I'm Attempting To Attach A Debdiff
<ajmitch> it's release-time jitters
<tuxmaniac> ajmitch: oh ok
* tuxmaniac is really :(
<crimsun> yay, 502s again
* crimsun sighs and falls back to CCing pitti
<Hobbsee> ack.  i just walked into a wall.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: that couldn't have been pleasant
<Hobbsee> hehe!  i tried to miss it!
<tuxmaniac> hey.. How do I confirm bugs via mail. I mean how do I change the status?
<tuxmaniac> Is it possible?
<tuxmaniac> this proxy error is irritating me at a crucial point.. When I can really increase my Karma :)
* crimsun chuckles
<crimsun> oh don't worry, you'll have /plenty/ of opportunities post-dapper
<tuxmaniac> aah up
<tuxmaniac> launchpad is back
<crimsun> we're about to see a deluge of bug reports
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee rethinks about subscribing to various kde buglists on that basis :P
<Hobbsee> mind you, it's easier to keep track and grab dupes when they land in your inbox...
* tuxmaniac wonders whether that is some kind of a tactic by Hobbsee to start a flame war between G and K
<Hobbsee> wasnt intended to be, tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> heh.. Hobbsee just kidding
<tuxmaniac> aah.. To whom should I assign a bug in gbib?
<tuxmaniac> gnome team?
<\sh> yawn...moins
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
* Hobbsee throws a bucket of icy water at \sh 
<\sh> brrr...
<\sh> that was cold ;)
<Hobbsee> that was the point
<ajmitch> cruel hobbsee
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: it was in his best interests!
<ajmitch> still cruel
<Hobbsee> -s
<Hobbsee> well....
<tritium> hi \sh :)
<Hobbsee> besides, it's kinda fun to have a bucket of water thrown on you...
<ajmitch> no it's not
<\sh> moins tritium
<ajmitch> & hi \sh :)
<Hobbsee> hi tritium
* ajmitch avoids throwing any water on him
<Hobbsee> hehe
<tritium> \sh: thanks for the mention in your blog about libpam-mount :)
<ajmitch> morning tritium
<tritium> hi Hobbsee, ajmitch
<tritium> yeah, morning indeed!  it's 1:30 a.m.
<\sh> tritium: no problem :)
* Hobbsee makes a note to throw plenty of water at ajmitch 
<tritium> Hobbsee: please throw some water my way...we're having a drought
* Hobbsee throws a large ocean at tritium 
<Hobbsee> as you wish :)
<tritium> ah, thanks ;)
<tritium> now, to desalinate all that...
<ajmitch> I doubt .au has any water to spare
<Hobbsee> desalination plant
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah yes, but when you grab the water from a spare, unused planet...then there's plenty of it to go around!
<Hobbsee> just a bit of an issue trying to transport it
<tritium> thank goodness for spare, unused planets, then
<ajmitch> right...
<\sh> oh planets.....I'm planning universe.kubuntu.de, for all kubuntu users around the world :)
<Mithrandir> tseng: cheers
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> morning phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<`6og> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi `6og
<`6og> hows you going?
<`6og> *woot*. thin client installed ok. *bout time*
<Hobbsee> i'm okay
<`6og> cool
* tuxmaniac si going to have kangaroo as his pet.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee: aahh.. that better :D Hi
<sivang> hey Hobbsee
<sivang> Hobbsee: how are you doing?
<Hobbsee> hi sivang :)
<Hobbsee> i'm okay, munching on dinner :)
<sivang> oh good
<phanatic> hi sivang
<sivang> hey phanatic !
<sivang> phanatic: how are you dude?
<`6og> Hobbsee: bit late
<Hobbsee> `6og: not relaly, i had lunch at around 4.
<phanatic> sivang: preparing for soc and some school stuff
<Hobbsee> phanatic: fun, what are you doing for soc?
<phanatic> sivang: what about you?
<phanatic> Hobbsee: gui for bzr
<Hobbsee> phanatic: fun :)
<phanatic> Hobbsee: i hope it will be fun :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee wonders if an acceptable soc project is beer drinking.
<sivang> phanatic: looking for a new apartment, thinking up what to do for HUB for Edgy, and currently trying to patch to fix malone #39482
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39482 in nautilus "nautilus tries to move when dragging and dropping from read-only folders, instead of copying" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39482
<`6og> Hobbsee: hehehe. not going to comment
<Hobbsee> `6og: many people would do it, you think?
<`6og> Hobbsee: judging by the attendance at googles free beer at LCA2k6, yes, i think 1 or 5billion people would
<phanatic> sivang: good luck :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<sivang> phanatic: thanks :)
<sivang> phanatic: what is your SoC project?
<phanatic> sivang: i mentioned above, it's a gui for bzr vcs
<sivang> ah right! that coolets SoC we have ;-)
<`6og> phanatic: hey, cool
<phanatic> i'm far from being cool :)
<phanatic> `6og: thanks
* `6og wiats eagerly for a call for beta testers
<phanatic> `6og: first i have to finish my exams :/
<`6og> :(
<tuxmaniac> Any opera users here?
<Gloubiboulga> tuxmaniac, yes
<tuxmaniac> Gloubiboulga: have you intalled opera on dapper?
<Gloubiboulga> tuxmaniac, yes
<Gloubiboulga> I had to install the breezy xlibs package too, but it works :)
<tuxmaniac> Gloubiboulga: which one you installed? Debian sid binary?
<Gloubiboulga> tuxmaniac, the etch package iirc
<tuxmaniac> ahh.. breezy xlibs packages..
<tuxmaniac> thats exactly where the problem is.. I got it.. It is not finding the deps when I install from the bin
<tuxmaniac> yes.
<pianoboy3333> Can anyone here help me with building a debian package on a python module with a setup.py script? I know I have to use CDBS but I put the python thing in there and dpkg-buildpackage is looking for a configure script still :(
<hub> sivang: what do you want to do to me?
<phanatic> hub: i think he meant hubackup ;)
* sivang should make sure he uses hubackup instead of hub
<highvoltage> hubackup is quite cool
<sivang> :)
<sivang> highvoltage: you tried to use it some bits?
<highvoltage> just launched it and poked around. i was trying to figure out if it could be used for multiple users
<highvoltage> and if it could be used in schools
<highvoltage> although i need to poke around some more :)
<sivang> ofcourse
<sivang> make sure you report everything that looks weird, or otherwise cripples a certain use case in malone
* sivang wants to get all bug reports,
<sivang> then work towards again a focusesed, robust and easy to use solutions.
<sivang> Edubuntu should be able to benefit it just as well
<highvoltage> yes
<sivang> highvoltage: I had plans to make it even bigger and more featureful for edgy, but it seems it'd be better to concentrate on making it rock solid, fix bugs, and usabilty for now.
<sivang> (among the plans was to make it a complete disaster recovery solution)
<highvoltage> good idea :)
<Yagisan> G'day doko_, you around ?
* Yagisan waves hello to other motu's
<dholbach> heya Yagisan
* highvoltage isn't a motu but waves back to Yagisan anyway
<Yagisan> details details
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan.  ditto highvoltage's comment.
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya Hobbsee
<dholbach> how is Universe looking for release?
<dholbach> does anybody care enough to file another bunch of UNMETDEPS bugs?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: to file them, or to fix the things?
<\sh> give me some, and I fix them in the next 2-3 hours until I go to bed ;)
<\sh> someone needs to sponsor my uploads
<dholbach> apt-cache -i unmet
<dholbach> that's no rocket science
<Hobbsee> lovely.
<\sh> updating dapper pbuilder
<dholbach> and there some other things left as well (in the topic)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yeah, but how many will bddebian beat me too this time, and not update malone to say he's done them?  :P
<dholbach> are the icon cache things done?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yep
<dholbach> rock on!
<Hobbsee> :)
* dholbach hugs the MOTU crew
<dholbach> you ROCK
<Hobbsee> imbrandon did some good work on them :)
<dholbach> 5 mysqlclient bugs left
<dholbach> niec
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> and 12 unmetdeps
<Hobbsee> only that many hey?
<Hobbsee> wow
<Yagisan> hmm. I can't reproduce Bug #46710. It plays all the crap I throw at it. Shall I reject it ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46710 in mplayer "mplayer does not play divx files" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46710
<dholbach> Yagisan: ask for more info - terminal output, run "file" on that file etc
<\sh> Yagisan: you don't have win32codecs installed?
<Yagisan> I'm amd64
<\sh> strange...
<Yagisan> Tested with DivX3, Divx5, Xvid. hmm, I have quite the collection here
<ajmitch> dholbach: really only 12 left?
<\sh> I'm checking gnade
<dholbach> ajmitch: looks like it
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep Package | cut -d' ' -f2  | sort -u | xargs apt-cache showsrc | grep Package: | sed 's/Package\:\ //g' | sort -u | wc -l
<dholbach> 51
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
<dholbach> that's on AMD64
* ajmitch updates his pbuilder & checks there
<dholbach> i'll file some more on i386
* ajmitch has 5 assigned to him
<ajmitch> so I suppose I could fix those up
<dholbach> s/could/should!
<dholbach> :-p
<\sh> dholbach: 53 here on amd64
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> 30 on i386
<dholbach> \sh: must be dependant on the repos
<ajmitch> dholbach: I can easily fix them, but it's a matter of letting them depend on a new API, which I haven't tested
<dholbach> well
<\sh> dholbach: just updated :)
<ajmitch> better to get them done than to not have them installable at all, I know..
<\sh> who can sponsor uploads?
<\sh> what a bastard
<\sh> regexp:=^Version: \([0-9] \+\)\.\([0-9] \+\)\.\([0-9a-z] \+\)-\([0-9.] \+\)$$
<\sh> major:=$(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | grep ^Version: | sed 's/$(regexp)/\1/')
<\sh> minor:=$(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | grep ^Version: | sed  's/$(regexp)/\2/')
<\sh> regexp:=^Version: \([0-9] \+\)\.\([0-9] \+\)\.\([0-9a-z] \+\)-\([0-9.] \+\)$$
<\sh> major:=$(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | grep ^Version: | sed 's/$(regexp)/\1/')
<\sh> minor:=$(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | grep ^Version: | sed  's/$(regexp)/\2/')
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> he is fetching the bloody major/minor version for the lib from changelog
* ajmitch notes zope-docfindertab is screwed up in debian as well, excellent
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: hehe.  more bugs for you to fix :P
* Hobbsee waits to be told to hush again :P
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> no, I'll just walk away from the computer
<\sh> ajmitch: you don't ;)
<Hobbsee> ah yes...you can do that now...you cant soon though :P
<ajmitch> I will, don't worry
<\sh> ajmitch: if I can fix some packages you have to upload ;)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: why wouldn't I be able to?
<ajmitch> \sh: too bad, it's past 2AM
<\sh> ajmitch: grmpf
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because you dont know your way around sydney, when you're over here, and you cant drive?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: maps are easy to come by
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Yagisan> ajmitch & sydney ??
<Hobbsee> yes, but public transport is not so easy...
<ajmitch> excellent, zope-docfindertab is horribly out of date in ubuntu & debian
<ajmitch> Yagisan: ?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: I'm the master of Sydney Public transport
<dholbach> ok, just filed a few more
* Hobbsee tries to figure out if Yagisan is serious in this.
* Hobbsee figures it would be a *very* bad idea to pay the public transport system out, if this is indeed true.
<Yagisan> ajmitch: Hobbsee mentioned something about you and Sydney. Thought I might get to see you in person again
<ajmitch> Yagisan: yes, quite possibly
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: it's true, I know more bout it then the public transport workers do
<Hobbsee> ehhe
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: and in some places, its , well, awful is an understatement
<ajmitch> Yagisan: that's great to know
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: reckon you could whinge about us not having a trainline?
<ajmitch> I'll know to leave at least half a day free for missed trains
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ajmitch> oh dear
<Yagisan> ajmitch: oh, no, the train comes. It just waits 30 minutes, 100 metres from your station, with no air-con
<Hobbsee> hehe!  that's very true, actually :P
<ajmitch> bug 47091
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47091 in grub-installer "Installer Crashed on Dapper 6.06 installation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47091
<ajmitch> someone pasted all 400K or so of logs into the description field
<\sh> lol
<Hobbsee> ouch!
<\sh> gnat - the ada 95 compiler, is only compiled on i386, no wonder why gnade is not working on amd64 ;)
<\sh> gnat-4.0 as bdep doesn't work
<\sh> but as it looks like gnat-3.3 works
<Yagisan> \sh: I know ada is in gcc-4.1, but a) it's to late for dapper, and b) it FTBFS in a dapper pbuilder for some whacked out reason
<\sh> Yagisan: we have gnat-4.0 but the source of gnade is somehow outdated :(
<\sh> and a working version with gnat-3.3 is better then a non working version, right?
<Yagisan> \sh: yes. even though I have no idea what gnade is
* ajmitch should probably sleep or something
<\sh> /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/3.3.6/adalib/libgnat.a(a-except.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `ada__exceptions__null_occurrence' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<\sh> /usr/lib/gcc-lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/3.3.6/adalib/libgnat.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
<\sh> more fun
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: or just bugfix :P
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, sleep
* Yagisan can't sleep. I have a software release due today :)
<Hobbsee> sleep's overrated.
<\sh> Yagisan: Description: Develoment files for the GNat Ada Database Environment
<\sh>  GNADE is a complete database development environment for Ada
<\sh>  programmers.  It consists of:
<\sh> or I set the Architecture to i386 only :
<\sh> :(
<Yagisan> \sh: isn't it somewhat ironic, that an ada ide, written in ada, fails to work with current ada
<\sh> of course
<\sh> ok...setting architecture to i386...
* ajmitch finds the zope problem on the server...
<ajmitch> gar
<ajmitch> bad line endings
<ajmitch> someone copied the zope products dir over from windows...
<ajmitch> the whole site dead...
<Hobbsee> hehe great!
<ajmitch> yes, just wonderful
<ajmitch> it'll take a little while to sort out
* ajmitch hunts for something to unbreak it all
<\sh> ajmitch: a project of yours? :)
<ajmitch> \sh: yeah
<\sh> ajmitch: fun
<ajmitch> very
<ajmitch> at least tr ought to fix it all up
<\sh> who has time to sponsor uploads?
<ajmitch> not me, I'm off to bed right now
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch
<ajmitch> can't be bothered trying to fix up this \r\n mess
<ajmitch> night
<Hobbsee> sure you are :P
<doko_> Yagisan: what's up?
<Hobbsee> mmm...bed...could be a plan
<ajmitch> oh, and doko_ is here after all.. :)
* ajmitch goes to bed anyway
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bmonty> I'll work UNMETDEPS....\sh you still here?
<Yagisan> G'day doko_. Tried to build debian's gcc-4.1 in a dapper pbuilder and got an odd error.
<Yagisan> doko_: dpkg-gencontrol: error: package fastjar not in control info
<Yagisan> dh_gencontrol: command returned error code 65280
<Yagisan> make[1] : *** [stamps/08-binary-stamp-fastjar]  Error 1
<Yagisan> doko_: yet, it's in the control file. any ideas ?
<doko_> Yagisan: no, it built fine on the buildd's.
<\sh> bmonty: sure
<bmonty> which packages are you working?
<Yagisan> doko_: it is an odd error. never seen it before ?
<\sh> bmonty: right now python biggles
<bmonty> \sh: good thing you said that, I just dl'ed it :)
<\sh> bmonty: but if you can sponsor: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnade/+bug/45097
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45097 in gnade "[LIBMYSQLCLIENT]  gnade links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Fix committed] 
<bmonty> \sh: will do
<\sh> bmonty: thx
<doko_> Yagisan: no
<Yagisan> doko_: would the log be useful for you ?
<doko_> Yagisan: no. is fastjar in debian/control? if not, please find out, why
<Yagisan> doko_: it is in debian/control, thats why I'm confused.
<Yagisan> doko_: as far as I can tell, that should have built
<\sh> bmonty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-biggles/+bug/47111 done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47111 in python-biggles "[UNMETDEPS]  python-biggles links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<\sh> bmonty: oh the title is totally bollocks ;)
<bmonty> \sh: I got an error trying to build gnade
<bmonty>  -> Considering  gnat (>= 3.15p-19)
<bmonty>       Tried versions: 3.15p-13
<\sh> bmonty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-biggles/+bug/47111
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47111 in python-biggles "[UNMETDEPS]  python-biggles links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Confirmed] 
<\sh> hach
<\sh> Maintainer: Ludovic Brenta <ludovic@ludovic-brenta.org>
<\sh> Architecture: i386
<\sh> Version: 3.15p-19
<\sh> ah wait
<bmonty> hmm, I just ran update, and apt-cache show gives me 3.15p-19 :(
<\sh> bmonty: i386 or amd64 pbuilder?
<bmonty> \sh: i386
<bmonty> I just did update with --override-config and now it is pulling down a bunch more packages
<\sh> what was the correct control field for build-arch? Architecture or Build-Architecture?
<bmonty> \sh: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
<bmonty> you had it right
<\sh> I'm totally confused right now, because in the company I'm building rpm packages ;)
<Hobbsee> night all...
<\sh> night Hobbsee
* bmonty kicks his pbuilder
<Yagisan> night Hobbsee
* Hobbsee kicks it as well.  seems they are rather tempramental at times.
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: wont you sleep sometime?
<\sh> bmonty: working on libadabindx
<neutrinomass> Is it possible that a package A depends on B which depends on C, but that A doesn't include C in its dependencies (let C be a widget toolkit) ? Or can I take it for granted that if a program has a GUI, it depends on the toolkit directly ?
<bmonty> \sh: ok, I'm working on squishdot
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: my daughter won't shut up. I don't get sleep even if I want it
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: she wants to play
<\sh> bmonty: k
<bmonty> neutrinomass: depends on how you set up the control file, but in general yes
<neutrinomass> bmonty: Thanks. I am trying to seperate the non-GUI programs from the GUI programs, that's why I'm asking ...
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah.  ouch.
<dholbach> some might have noticed: "links against old version of libmysqlclient" is the wrong title for unmetdeps bugs..
<dholbach> narf
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yes, ouch indeed. her whinging wake up bub, who then whinges. I need 2 pairs of earplugs here
<Hobbsee> hehe
<\sh> any ada freak online?
<\sh> bmonty: working on php4-yaz
<bmonty> \sh: I just found a typo in the description of gnade-dev, do you mind if I add a line to your changelog entry?
<\sh> bmonty: no :)
<\sh> oh how nice
<\sh> I just broke my passwd
<bmonty> \sh: I've done that a couple times :)
<\sh> now I need root access from remote..because no keyboard and no display on that server
<lucas> im trying to get an ubuntu deb from debain sources using pbuilder, but i get an error:
<lucas> ** ERROR:Unable to find glib-2.0 of version 2.0 or above **
<\sh> bmonty: php4-yaz can be uploaded .. debdiff attached to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/php4-yaz/+bug/47110
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47110 in php4-yaz "[UNMETDEPS]  php4-yaz links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Fix committed] 
<bmonty> \sh: ok, gnade is uploaded, and python-biggles will be soon
<\sh> bmonty: cool thx :)
<\sh> bmonty: working on python-scipy
<lucas> does anyone know why it complains about missing glib?
<lucas> i have libglib2.0-dev and libglib2.0-0 installed
<\sh> brb need to finish my laundry task
<\sh> bmonty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-scipy/+bug/47106 done
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47106 in python-scipy "[UNMETDEPS]  python-scipy links against old libmysqlclient" [Normal,Fix committed] 
<bmonty> anyone know how the ${zope: Depends} works in a control file? It seems to pull in zope2.6 | zope 2.7, but ubuntu has zope2.8 | zope2.9
<bmonty> \sh: ok
<\sh> hmm..no substvars in the debian/ dir?
<crimsun> does it work the same way as ${python: Depends}?  i.e., you need to build-depend on zope2.8 or zope2.9
<LaserJock> ack scipy was in the libmysqlclient transition?
<\sh> no
<\sh> it's a wrong title
<\sh> unmet deps
<\sh> is correct
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<LaserJock> still, it should be on my list
<LaserJock> hm
<\sh> LaserJock: python-scipy is done ;)
<\sh> hmm...the rescue mode, does it give me a root shell?
<crimsun> yes
<LaserJock> \sh: thats cool
<bmonty> guess I can hardcode the package depends, but I'd rather see the macro work correctly
<crimsun> (it will prompt for a passwd if you've set a root one, otherwise it won't)
<\sh> crimsun: so no root password == direct root shell to change my password?
<\sh> bmonty: which package?
<crimsun> \sh: correct
<bmonty> \sh: squishdot
<\sh> bmonty: check dzproduct
<\sh> in debian dir
<bmonty> \sh: yeah, I just found that :)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh> bmonty: the question is how does it apply this stuff to substvars?
<\sh> ah zope-debhelper
<\sh> brb fixing my server
<\sh> blind
<ajmitch> yay, can't sleep
<ajmitch> bmonty: ah, you're doing zope stuff...
<bmonty> \sh: good question, but updating that file works
* ajmitch cringes
<bmonty> ajmitch: yeah, any idea how the dzproduct file works?
<ajmitch> yes
<bmonty> BTW: I verified that this package works with the newer versions of zope
<ajmitch> bmonty: then sync it from sid instead of introducing another delta
<ajmitch> how did you verify it?
<ajmitch> created a zope instance & used the product in it?
<bmonty> ajmitch: upstream's web site
<ajmitch>    * patched Squishdot/addSquishdotForm.dtml and Squishdot/__init__.py
<ajmitch>      to make it work in zope2.8/zope2.9
<ajmitch> note that debian has a patch to make it actually work :P
<LaserJock> \sh: ah, I see you did biggles as well, is that uploaded?
<bmonty> LaserJock: biggles is uploaded
<LaserJock> sweet
<LaserJock> I guess it would be better if I checked dapper-changes before asking here :-)
<bmonty> is the archive team going to process a sync request?
<crimsun> bmonty: possibly, though this late in the release cycle I wouldn't hold my breath
<ajmitch> I hope so
<ajmitch> bmonty: where on the upstream site did you verify that it worked with 2.8 & 2.9?
<ajmitch> since the only thing I can see is that it needs the patch mentioned earlier
<bmonty> ajmitch: I found it in their mailing list
<bmonty> ajmitch: I just requested a sync for it
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch would hate to have the package deps changed but the package itself still broken
<bmonty> ajmitch: I agree it is kinda worthless to have a package that installs but doesn't work :)
<\sh_away> bbl watching V for Vendetta
<dholbach> how do we look wrt motureviewers bugs?
<dholbach> all done?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | We are in feature freeze now. Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) | http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers)
<tseng> hi dholbach
<dholbach> heya tseng!
<dholbach> how's it going?
<tseng> good, you?
<dholbach> fine, thanks
<tseng> are you excited for guadec?
<dholbach> I'm excited for the release at the moment, after that I'm excited for Ubuntu In Paris, and after that thrilled for GUADEC :)
<tseng> ok :)
<dholbach> :-))
<tseng> http://kitenet.net/~joey/pics/debconf/6/dc6_group_photo_big.sized.jpg
<tseng> let's play "where's lamont"
<dholbach> found him!
<dholbach> wooohoo!
<tseng> :)
<tseng> next to bdale
<tseng> good job
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> who spotted sfllaw?
<tseng> brown hat
<tseng> i got him
<azeem> doko?
<tseng> tough one
<dholbach> didn't spot doko, mdz and elmo yet
<tseng> mdz is near the front
<azeem> I don't think elmo is on it
<tseng> in his ubuntu t
<azeem> where is sabdfl?
<tseng> is doko wearing sunglasses?
<tseng> next to joeyh
<azeem> yes
<tseng> i got him
<azeem> yes
<tseng> this is a good game
<tseng> now find manoj
<tseng> ( i think thats manoj ? )
<azeem> manoj is on the pic, yeah
<tseng> i think sabdfl flew out
<azeem> he's on it
<tseng> oh
<tseng> i got him
<tseng> light blue tee
<ajmitch> sabdfl is there, looking seedy as ever
<tseng> next to a jim gettys looking character
<tseng> who i suspect isnt actually jim
<azeem> it's jim
<tseng> he's lost a big tuft of hair since i last saw him
<ajmitch> where's the full-sized image?
<tseng> on planet somewhere
<azeem> ajmitch: gallery.debconf.org
<tseng> gotta go
<dholbach> ajmitch: drop the 'sized.'
<ajmitch> never mind, found the 5MB image
<azeem> https://gallery.debconf.org/album13/dc6_group_photo_big?full=1
* ajmitch recognises a few faces there
<ajmitch> I'll have to try & make it to the next debconf
<zyga> hello
<zyga> is anyone working on packaging xara xtreme?
<sladen> zyga: http://lists.debian.org/debian-wnpp/2006/04/msg00322.html
<zyga> sladen: thanks
<zyga> thanks, that's clean then
<sladen> zyga: it didn't make this release of Ubuntu or the last one, but should be in a good enough state for dapper+1
<zyga> sladen: it's useless before they add the lib, no amd64 and there are lots of bugs probably
<zyga> but I'm so happy it's usable in some way right now
<sladen> zyga: it's 1.5million lines of code;  all of which has had to be ported from MFC to wxwdigets
<tseng> hi
<bmonty> bbl
<LaserJock> hmm, how do you get the postinst, etc. scripts from a .deb without installing it?
<crimsun> dpkg-deb -I foo.deb postinst
<crimsun> etc.
<LaserJock> crimsun: beautiful, thanks
<crimsun> np
<mdke> hi y'all
<mdke> as you know, the documentation on the wiki is moving to a new help wiki soon. I've noticed that some of the MOTU subpages are lined up to be caught in the move, because they are marked as documentation. I think it would be best for them to stay on the main wiki, as they deal with getting involved with development. Does anyone disagree?
<crimsun> such as the revu ones, or...?
<LaserJock> mdke: all the ones on the CategoryDocumentation are basically covered by the Packaging Guide
<LaserJock> so I don't think people would be missing anything by keeping them under MOTU/
<mdke> crimsun: School, Packages, Packages/Reviewing, Packages/Review/Tips, Packages/Packaging/Tips,
<crimsun> what jordan said
<mdke> so they should be included in the move, you think?
<LaserJock> no
<mdke> oh, good
<mdke> i agree :)
<mdke> I'll remove them
<LaserJock> just from the CategoryDocumentation, right?
<mdke> yes, of course
<mdke> they are still in CategoryMOTU
<LaserJock> great
<\sh> re
<bmonty> hi \sh
<\sh> bmonty: thx for the sponsoring :)
<bmonty> \sh: no problem...you did it enough times for me :)
<bmonty> \sh: are you going to close the bugs on those packages?
<\sh> bmonty: yeah already did for the python-* packages
<lucas> hi all
<bmonty> hi lucas
<bmonty> \sh: did anyone upload php-yaz?
<\sh> bmonty: nope
<bmonty> \sh: did you run dpkg-buildpackage on php4-yaz?  It is failing at "dist-clean" trying to make a new source package.
<\sh> bmonty: on i386? in my amd64 pbuilder it's working nicely, well I have to install php4-dev as debuild pre-require for phpize
<bmonty> \sh: thats it....I'm on i386, but should be on amd64 in a week or so :)
<bmonty> shouldn't php-dev be a build-dep?
<\sh> bmonty: well, it is :)
<\sh> bmonty: but the clean rule is executed via debuild -S
<\sh> and I wonder if there is another way to avoid installing php{4,5}-dev stuff
<\sh> php is evil
<bmonty> \sh: yeah, I don't want php-dev installed so I can't make a source package :(
<\sh> bmonty: well, you can do that in a chroot, and then clean the chroot
<bmonty> can someone please try a rebuild of the rscheme package?  I get a segfault as soon as the build process tries to run rscheme.
<\sh> bmonty: one sec
<\sh> bmonty: when does it segfault?
<bmonty> \sh: rshell/rs -image tmp/system.bas -c.repl system.img
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-21
<crimsun> yes, helpztags is preferable
<crimsun> oops, queue processing time.
<jrib> crimsun: thanks I'll file a bug and include that
* wolfeon bans self for the resto f the day from looking at the bug tracker, heh
<wolfeon> stupid me and the libfam supplied by gamin
<TheMuso> crimsun: If you have a minute, could you please upload the new package, found in bug 115789? Thanks.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115789 in espeak "Please upload new espeak package." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115789
<crimsun> TheMuso: sure, queued.  Processing bugs.LP/~u-u-s ATM.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok. I'm just updating chroots, so I'll join you in a bit.
<pgquiles> if anybody is bored, please take a few minutes to review libtomcrypt (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5231). Thank you.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Have you  touched proftpd yet?
<crimsun> TheMuso: nope.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<crimsun> I just processed om
<Nafallo> /exec touch proftpd ;-)
<crimsun> welshbyte: in the future, please be careful WRT discarding previous Ubuntu debian/changelog entries.
<crimsun> LOCK quodlibet
<crimsun> TheMuso: presuming you've LOCKed proftpd
<welshbyte> crimsun: oh yeah... sorry :/
<TheMuso> crimsun: Yes.
<Nafallo> ehrm. new commands for some bot? :-P
<TheMuso> heh
* TheMuso should consider what geser does. Mark as in progress, and assigns them to him I think...
* TheMuso looks
<welshbyte> sigh, i'm learning, i'm learning
<crimsun> Nafallo: just easier to mimick the old Hoary-style concurrent workflow since both TheMuso and I are processing u-u-s merges
<geser> TheMuso: yes, I assign a bug to me and set it as In Progress when I'm reviewing/sponsoring a merge
<crimsun> UNLOCK quodlibet
<Hobbsee> yay, more u-u-s stuff being done
<TheMuso> geser: Yeah, I think I'm going to start doing that from now on.
<Hobbsee> StevenK, myself, and persia killed about 50 on saturday night
<TheMuso> So I saw.
<Hobbsee> :)
<Nafallo> crimsun: ah. we should have a bot :-P
<crimsun> ok, u-u-s queue cleared.
<shawarma> We can't see new source packages anywhere, can we? Before they're ACCEPTed, I mean.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yay!
<crimsun> ok, Novell, go ahead and release ALSA 1.0.14 already.
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Hmm. Thanks. That's odd, though.
<crimsun> you're only holding up my main merges!
<shawarma> Hobbsee: I was sure I looked there already.
* ajmitch is waiting for samba 3.0.25a
<ajmitch> though I should just upload
<geser> Hobbsee: doesn't the u-u-s ml send the mails generated by me back to me?
<TheMuso> geser: No.
<TheMuso> I've found that it doesn't.
<TheMuso> I think its the way we were subscribed.
<Hobbsee> geser: mails generated from you meaning what?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: For example, if you update a bug for uus, you don't see your change on the ml.
<TheMuso> i.e you don't receive a mail showing you what you have done.
* Hobbsee finds that she does...
<geser> I see the changes from everybody else but not my own
<TheMuso> geser: Same here.
* TheMuso prods soyuz.
* Hobbsee prods mailman
<geser> I get your mails on the ml and I guess you get my mails
<crimsun> TheMuso: proftpd has hit -changes
<geser> I assume the ml is set to not send back mails to the author
<TheMuso> crimsun: Yeah I know, just got the mail.
<crimsun> err, proftpd-dfsg
<crimsun> still not used to that rename
<TheMuso> geser: I suspect we could change that in our subscription options.
* TheMuso merges digitald
<geser> checking now
<TheMuso> digitaldj
* geser waits for his password for the uus ml
<shawarma> If I've discovered an error in a package that's in source NEW, what do I do? a) Upload a new one with the same revision and pretend like nothing happend, b) upload a new one with a new revision, and pretend like nothing happened, or c) poke an archive-admin to remove the old upload and upload a new one with the same revision?
<geser> TheMuso: it's a per-user option, I changed it now for my subscription
<TheMuso> geser: Yeah I thought as much.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: i believe a) but it may be a good idea to mentoin it to the archive admins
<shawarma> Hobbsee: I'll do that then. Thanks.
* crimsun chuckles at http://beuno.com.ar/archives/21
<ajmitch> though it is worrying that a package would need fixed in source NEW, it's not uncommon
<crimsun> not surprisingly, those are the precise models covered in a bug report against linux-source-2.6.20 regarding ALSA to which I provided a patch.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> maybe they could ship you some test hardware
<crimsun> ;)
<crimsun> hmm, I may be able to make Ubuntu Live
<ajmitch> that'd be good
<nixternal> MOTUs!!! Bug 115882 needs a sync if you are around. Thanks!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115882 in krename "[Sync Request]  Please sync Krename (3.0.14-1) from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115882
<Hobbsee> nixternal: done
<nixternal> hehe, thanks!
<Hobbsee> (pending LP loading)
<nixternal> that was quick
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i didnt have to look at it
<nixternal> you trusted it?
<nixternal> that is scary
<crimsun> Hobbsee was out-ninja'd.
<nixternal> heh
<Hobbsee> nixternal: based on the fact that if you screwed up your own changes, when making the debian package, and you're now the debian maintainer, then you're probably trusted to get things right, at least for that package
<nixternal> hahaha
<crimsun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krename/+bug/115882/+activity
<crimsun> :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115882 in krename "[Sync Request]  Please sync Krename (3.0.14-1) from Debian Unstable (Main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Hobbsee> blerg.  throw that thru the "please-make-sense-izer"
<nixternal> woohoo!
<Hobbsee> crimsun: you suck.
<crimsun> :)
<nixternal> you guys are way to fast
* Hobbsee cries at the shoestring connection.
<nixternal> 1 minute after I hit submit you 2 were all over it
<nixternal> we have a term for people like you here in the ghetto..it is called thirsties
<ajmitch> nixternal: they are not human
<nixternal> oooh, OLPC on 60minutes
<nixternal> brb
* Hobbsee is a green alien, yes.
<ajmitch> quite
<TheMuso> LOCK labplot :)
<Hobbsee> quick, someone else upload labplot!
<crimsun> done!
<crimsun> ninja'd.
<crimsun> (j/k)
* TheMuso gathered. :)
<nixternal> argh, I missed the end of it
<nixternal> the OLPC got the Ubuntu guys laughed at last month at Flourish in Chicago
<nixternal> we couldn't figure out how to open the damn thing
<nixternal> the Fedora guys are like "what the Ubuntu guys can't figure out"
<nixternal> of course one of our smart arses replied "who has 8 million users?"
<crimsun> Fujitsu: taking xfig if you don't mind.
* welshbyte gives u-u-s some more work to do and dives for cover
* Hobbsee gets out the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  and heads towards welshbyte 
<welshbyte> meep
<ajmitch> is Hobbsee being odd again?
<Hobbsee> s/again/still/ ?
<welshbyte> that's not odd, i'm used to being lunged at with sharp objects :)
<crimsun> is anyone working on the nexuiz merge?
<nixternal> I can do it, as I think I did it before didn't I?
<welshbyte> apart from me? 
<crimsun> no, I meant a u-u-s member
<welshbyte> ah ok
<crimsun> ...because I'm about to press Enter for dput
<welshbyte> yeah, sorry if i step on anyone's feet, i guess i should ask first
<crimsun> oh well, too late.
<crimsun> mm, empty u-u-s sponsor queue.  me likey.
<welshbyte> great stuff 
<ajmitch> really empty?
<crimsun> ajmitch: merges/syncs, yep.
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> I thought you meant all patches submitted
<ajmitch> it's a lot smaller though
<welshbyte> doesn't that just mean we don't have enough hopefuls working furiously on merges? :)
<crimsun> pretty much.
<TheMuso> crimsun: The espeak upload was rejected...
<crimsun> TheMuso: I didn't process it.
<crimsun> I was getting to it, but...
<TheMuso> Oh StevenK did it.
<TheMuso> ...or atttempted to...
<persia> TheMuso: I still wonder about bug 115799: Don't we need to support LTS -> LTS transitions?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115799 in proftpd-dfsg "Please merge proftpd-dfsg from Debian" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115799
<persia> TheMuso: (Contrast with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/proftpd)
<ajmitch> we do
<TheMuso> persia: Are we supporting that? If so, we still have time to fix it.
<TheMuso> persia: Oh ok.
* persia :)
<ajmitch> otherwise it'll bite us next release (if that'll be LTS)
<TheMuso> Ok I'll fix it.
<crimsun> TheMuso: what was the reject rationale?
<TheMuso> Rejected:
<TheMuso> Unable to find espeak_1.25.orig.tar.gz in upload or distribution.
<TheMuso> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack
<TheMuso> verification.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Yet everything at the URL I gave in the bug is there...
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  My apologies for failing to unsubscribe when setting to Needs Info.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: did you use -sa?
<crimsun> yes, he did.  It's in the _source.changes.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/espeak has both the dsc and changes file with the correct bits there that are neeedd.
<Hobbsee> ah right
<crimsun> ok, reuploaded.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> something really funk is going on with soyuz.
<TheMuso> crimsun: ??
<crimsun> TheMuso: you're on the reject recipient list, too, for my espeak upload
<TheMuso> Weird.
<TheMuso> yet 1.25 is up in LP now.
<crimsun> I'm guessing that's steven's upload
<TheMuso> crimsun: The accept email was sent to you, and me.
<crimsun> weird, I got a reject email :)
<TheMuso> crimsun: Now that is weird.
<TheMuso> ah sorry, no that was a rejection.
<crimsun> ok. :)
<TheMuso> yes it was StevenK's upload.
<TheMuso> Twas two people uploading the one package. :
<TheMuso> :)
<TheMuso> Anyways, its up.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
* persia thinks we need a better way to "reserve" merges being investigated so that e.g. crimsun's ninja skills don't cause dual uploads :)
<TheMuso> persia: Well there is what geser does for uus stuff, mark as in progress, assign to him, and set to wishlist.
<TheMuso> I am going to start doing that for uus stuff in the future.
<persia> TheMuso: I've been doing that as well, but I don't think it's formal yet, and I don't think all UUS does that.  StevenK also suggested that UUS should be unsubscribed whenever a package is being touched, to reduce the queue size (that's how it went from ~130 to ~80 a few days ago).
<TheMuso> Right.
<Hobbsee> ie, if a specific motu is working on the package, there's no need for it to be on the u-u-s list
<Hobbsee> because all the u-u-s list is, is for people to pick stuff up, and upload it if it's sane
<TheMuso> So I guess we unsubscribe uus, and subscribe ourselves so we can keep on working on the bug with the person who uploaded the diff.
* persia considers unsubscribing all the "Confirmed" SYNC bugs, and subscribing the ACKer.
<persia> TheMuso: That's what I've been doing.  For things that need a lot of work, I've also been setting the mentor flag, to provide extra indication that the person working on it should contact me with questions.
<Hobbsee> persia: i probably wouldnt bother - just because it creates more mail
<TheMuso> We should also discourage the use of the requestsponsor script
<Hobbsee> what's wrong with that?
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks.  That's why I mentioned it here.  As we evolve best practices, the queue will naturally shorten :)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: It can't attach debdiffs as attachments.
<TheMuso> THe diff is inline.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah right, yes.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i thought it was actually working, for a while
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: And it can sometimes be difficult to scrape.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yep
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: are we supporting xgl and mplayer? :-P
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: hi btw :-)
<welshbyte> interesting, DaD only has 3 merges listed, it was 129 not long ago
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: do you trust DAD?
<welshbyte> not any more :)
<Hobbsee> welshbyte: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<Nafallo> you don't trust your dad?
<Nafallo> OMG :-P
<Hobbsee> seeing as MOM disagrees, i'd suspect that MOM is right
<welshbyte> it's in the /topic so it must be right ;)
<Nafallo> I'd always trust mom more than dad I guess ;-)
* TheMuso only uses MoM now.
<TheMuso> rb
<Hobbsee> it may not have the sources, but the author is not evil, and it just works, and has not appeared to have any bugs wiht it.
<TheMuso> brb even
<Hobbsee> if i cant trust mom, then i cant trust soyuz either.
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> + all of launchpad.
<welshbyte> for the record, i don't believe the author of MoM or DaD are evil at all, i was just pointing out an anomaly :)
<welshbyte> i tend to use MoM but look on DaD for any notes attached to the merges
<joejaxx> Hello All
<welshbyte> hi joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
* joejaxx needs to do more motu work :(
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: do all the merges, kthxbye.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
* joejaxx is not good with merges
<Hobbsee> learn to be?
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Its really not that hard.
<TheMuso> Its easier than the work you have done for UbuntuStudio.
<joejaxx> i do not know about that lol
<joejaxx> for some reason things are opposite for me :\
<welshbyte> you get the hang of it after a while, and a few tellings off :)
<joejaxx> complicated stuff i am good at small things i am not
<welshbyte> how about small complicated things? :)
<joejaxx> no not a combination of the two :P
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ping?
<crimsun> hmm.  So Joe is an ideal candidate for TeX, then. Awesome.
<crimsun> Hey Joe, ould you like ALSA while you're at TeX?
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> dream on, you're not going to get rid of alsa
<joejaxx> :P
<crimsun> c'mon, it's FUN!  All the cool kids are avoiding it!
<joejaxx> haha
<TheMuso> If I were a better coder, I'd remotely consider alsa...
<crimsun> pfft.
* TheMuso ponders why debian removed ardour-dbg...
<Hobbsee> to spite you
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> crimsun: I can't imagine why people are avoiding alsa
<ajmitch> I mean, sound can't be that hard, right?
<Nafallo> ofcourse it can...
<Nafallo> hardcore, gabber, psychedelic death metal etc... :-)
<welshbyte> get jono to do it ;)
<Nafallo> that's NOT hard :-)
<welshbyte> ok ok :)
<TheMuso> Gotta love having to re-add changelog entries when doing a merge.
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<persia> TheMuso: I usually apply the changelog part of the last merge patch: then it's only one entry to be added manually :)
<TheMuso> persia: But changelog entries were missing from previous merges. They were dropped somehow, and I had to put them back in.
<TheMuso> It started when I was trying to find information as to why a change was made.
<persia> TheMuso: Ouch!
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah.
<RAOF> Right.  Democracyplayer merge (bug #115553) is up for any u-u-s who are searching around for something to do :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115553 in democracyplayer "[Merge] Merge democracyplayer 0.9.5.3-1 from Debain unstable" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115553
* joejaxx looks at the bitsized bugs list for any not already taken ones
<TheMuso> RAOF: Let me test build/upload a merge, and I'll take a look.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: how confident are you about it?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: It works for me, but so did the previous version :).  I haven't built a i386 version, and that was where the problems were.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: id' just upload it, if RAOF thinks it's right
<Hobbsee> it's got enough breakage that on the balance of probability, a bit of possible breakage will merely be a blip on the radar
<RAOF> Unless you've got an i386 system lying around!  I'd like to see whether or not it actually works on i386 :)
* RAOF needs to wire up his pbuilders to produce both i386 & amd64 packages, so he can feed his i386 VM
* Hobbsee does, but doesnt want to corrupt her system :P
<RAOF> On the other hand, Hobbsee is right.  No one on i386 will notice if it *still* doesn't work :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: How do you produce the problems? I have i386 here, and could probably test.
<RAOF> TheMuso: You try to run it, and it doesn't work, IIRC.
<RAOF> Other options include: you try to play a video in it, and it crashes, or you try to play a video in it, and it doesn't have sound.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Feel free to upload if you want something to do. Stil working on a merge here.
<Hobbsee> i'm attempting to find sutff here.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<superm1> Hobbsee, could I bugger you to look over a package on revu?
<Hobbsee> superm1: nope
<superm1> :(, k
<Hobbsee> (sorry)
<Nafallo> ah
<Nafallo> democracy. not m :-)
<RAOF> Indeed.  Mplayer *works*, AFAIK :)
<Nafallo> "works" ;-)
<Nafallo> current package defaults to libmad AFAIK :-P
<RAOF> At least it doesn't use non-public, deprecated DBUS api, some of which has been actually removed.  And what's wrong with libmad?
<Nafallo> it lags :-)
<Nafallo> often behind :-)
<TheMuso> What the hell could make libkeyutils-dev be a build dep? Espeak doesn't even use it
<TheMuso> espeak has hit dep wait, due to libkeyutils-dev being in universe...
<sid> Anyone else here on feisty and can do "apt-get build-dep gnash" and tell me if they get this error "E: Build-dependencies for gnash could not be satisfied." ?
<Nafallo> sure. w8
<Nafallo> sid: indeed
<sid> Nafallo: You want to file a bug? And do you know a fix? it's not very verbose, it doesn't tell me which particular package it can't satisfy
<Nafallo> sid: no on both questions.
<Hobbsee> sid: what dep does it fail on?
<Hobbsee> er, b-d
<sid> Hobbsee: no idea, try the command. it doesn't say.
* Hobbsee isnt running feisty
<mwolson> FTR, i've opened a bug at https://develop.participatoryculture.org/trac/democracy/ticket/7118 which has a list of the patches needed for compilation of democracyplayer on gutsy
<Hobbsee> it doesnt s ay earlier either?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: ^
<sid> Hobbsee: http://rafb.net/p/OZqYGY21.html
<Hobbsee> sid: hmm.  who knows
<sid> the gnash maintainer?
<mwolson> (for democracyplayer 0.96rc0, though, rather than 0.95.1)
<RAOF> mwolson: Thanks, I was going to do that.
<sid> little_miry@yahoo.es
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Nafallo> nice
<Hobbsee> oh, an upstream bug.  gotcha.
<Nafallo> didn't knew she cared for gnash :-)
<mwolson> the thing still freezes up just after showing its GUI, though :^(
<sid> Mariam Ruiz?
<sid> Anyone know her irc?
<TheMuso> mwolson: What architecture?
<mwolson> TheMuso: i386 (Intel Core Duo 1)
<RAOF> mwolson: If you're running AMD64, my 0.9.5.3 merge works :)
<sid> people.debian.org shows nothing, is there such a service for Ubuntu?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Running it through a pbuilder now. Will test in a gutsy chroot...
<TheMuso> sid: Yes, but the one for Ubuntu is only for canonical employees.
<Nafallo> s/Mariam/Miriam/
<sid> Installed-Size: 216
<sid> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<sid> Original-Maintainer: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>
<sid> woops, does that mean she maintains it, or motu?
<mwolson> RAOF: i would test your package, but i think ~/.democracyplayer has already been migrated from running 0.9.6rc0, and i don't want to risk corruption
<Hobbsee> sid: she maintains it
<RAOF> mwolson: mv ~/.democracyplayer ~/.democracy-backup
<Nafallo> sid: both
<mwolson> RAOF: hmm, yeah, could do that
<sid> 22:02 [freenode]  -!- #ubuntu-mo Baby      G   0  n=miry@pdpc/supporter/silver/kavi/baby [Miriam Ruiz] 
<sid> Baby: you around?
<Nafallo> ah. right. say hello from me :-)
<sid> ubuntu needs a public people system, like debian. imho
<Nafallo> * [Baby]  inaktiv 07:26:14, ploggning: Sat May 19 18:47:59
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ppa sort of works now, btw
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Sort of?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Please enlighten me.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: well, does work.  restricted to -dev and such
<TheMuso> How do we make use of them?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm not sure where the documentation on it was, but we saw it in action at UDS
<TheMuso> Sweet.
<Hobbsee> dput to dogfood.launchpad.net
<Hobbsee> dont remember the username and such and directory
<Nafallo> ppa?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ask siretart 
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Ok will do.
<Nafallo> !ppa
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ppa - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: personal package archives
<TheMuso> Nafallo: Personal package archives
<TheMuso> *snap*
<Nafallo> ah. kewl.
<Nafallo> damn bots ;-)
<mwolson> RAOF: it builds and actually seems to work (moved ~/.democracyplayer out of the way first)
* TheMuso is going to test it in a gutsy chroot.
<RAOF> Woot!  i386 workage!
<TheMuso> as soon as he installs its deps
<TheMuso> RAOF: I'll test anyway, just to be sure.
* mwolson checks to see if the end-of-video-clip bug is still there
* RAOF wonders vaguely why KVM is so flaky on his laptop
<mwolson> yep, democracyplayer still crashes after displaying a video clip
<RAOF> But only on i386, not amd645
* RAOF has a computer from the future!
<TheMuso> mwolson: Is this with RAOF's merge?
<RAOF> Now that I've found the homestarrunner.com rss feed, I may actually *use* democracy, rather than just fixing the packaging :)
<mwolson> TheMuso: yes
<TheMuso> mwolson: Thanks for the heads up.
<RAOF> mwolson: How do you trigger this bug, just to make sure it's i386 only.
* TheMuso notes that he hasn't uploaded yet.
<mwolson> RAOF: start democracyplayer, play a video, once end of video is reached, crash occurs and democracyplayer exits
<mwolson> The program 'gecko' received an X Window System error.
<mwolson> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
<mwolson> The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'. ... etc.
* RAOF checks with a teen girl squad.
<TheMuso> heh
<Nafallo> RAOF: send them to be when you're done with them will you? :-)
<RAOF> Well, that's an i386 only bug.
<Nafallo> RAOF: ehrm, that's okey. I'm on that arch atm :-)
<joejaxx> TheMuso: debdiff is supposed to show ALL changes between two packages right? or am i just imagining things
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Thats right.
<joejaxx> because right now it is not showing the menu file change i just made
<ajmitch> maybe you didn't rebuild the source package correctly?
<DaSkreech> Is the flashplugin not verified by the apt system?
<DaSkreech> "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!   flashplugin-nonfree Install these packages without verification [y/N] ?
<Nafallo> yes it is. try apt-get update again
<Nafallo> or a supportchannel :-)
<DaSkreech> I did
<DaSkreech>  they said to ask here if Flashplugin should throw that error
<Nafallo> they are clearly wrong. they should know that flashplugin-nonfree is in multiverse and so should be authenticated through Releases.gpg
<superm1> DaSkreech, you may have a third party repository providing the package, make sure sources.list is clean
<Nafallo> anyway. what I said should fix it or you have a 3rd party repo :-)
<superm1> it should be authenticating with the ubuntu releases.gpg
<superm1> ^
<DaSkreech> superm1: Just did
<DaSkreech> it's clean
<superm1> well beyond that, see #ubuntu for help, this channel is for package development
<DaSkreech> I don't want a end user help I just wanted to verify that it's not supposed to do that
<Hobbsee> wouldnt have thought it was
<DaSkreech> Me either but It' so hard to verify non-sourced apps ....
<TheMuso> RAOF: DId you confirm that the video end bug was i386 only?
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yup, movies play right through to the end and then start the next one for me :)
<TheMuso> Right
<RAOF> Intriguing.  libltdl3 is totally broken (as in, the package is empty except for /usr/doc).  Hello, launchpad!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Do you want me to go ahead with the upload for now?
<TheMuso> Or do you want to work on these probs?
<superm1> TheMuso, once your finished with democracy, will you have a few min for a revu?
<TheMuso> superm1: Perhaps. I want to get some lunch, and I intend to start doing non-ubuntu stuff afterwards, but I'll see.
<superm1> K
<RAOF> TheMuso: You might as well upload it.  I'm not sure how to fix it, so I'm unlikely to be able to fix it soon.  Having the merged package in there will allow other people to fix it, if the feel like it :).
<TheMuso> RAOF: Ok.
<RAOF> Also, it works for amd64 :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: On its way up...
<RAOF> Yay!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Uploaded. Will update the bug accordingly.
<TheMuso> bbl. Lunch.,
<RAOF> Can anyone confirm bug #115905?  It seems crazy, since it's the same source package that worked in feisty.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115905 in libtool "libltdl3 package is empty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115905
<sid> I just installed that.
<sid> </random_thought>
<persia> RAOF: I have a /usr/lib/libltdl.so.3.1.4 in a recent (~1 min) gutsy snapshot.
<RAOF> persia: And that's in the "libltdl3" package?  What version, what arch?
<persia> RAOF: Yes, 1.5.22-4, AMD64
<RAOF> Hm.  Same package, same arch, same version.  But dpkg --listfiles libltdl3 doesn't give that.
<RAOF> Weird
* RAOF puts down holding deposit on new flat.  Wooot!
<persia> RAOF: Try `aptitude download libltdl3; dpkg --contents libltdl3_1.5.22-4_amd64.deb`  if you like the output, `dpkg -i libltdl3_1.5.22-4_amd64.deb`.
<dabaR> If I try to install the ubuntu-desktop package on gutsy, and get this error: The following packages have unmet dependencies: libgcj7-awt: Depends: gcj-4.1-base (= 4.1.2-0ubuntu5) but 4.1.2-7ubuntu1 is to be installed.
<Hobbsee> !ping
<ubotu> pong
<persia> dabaR: Yep.  Gutsy's broken :)
<dabaR> Should I edit the control file and fix it, or what is the right thing to do?
<Hobbsee> dabaR: no, you go and fix the broken package, or wait
<persia> dabaR: It's main.  Wait.  Uninstall ubuntu-desktop if you need to upgrade.
<dabaR> Do you guys also see an issue with the icons in gnome?
<dabaR> That they are missing.
<Hobbsee> er, if i'm building a main-only package, in a pbuilder that includes universe, that wont cause problems will it?
<Hobbsee> if none of the build-deps are in universe, from the control file?
<persia> Hobbsee: Shouldn't, but it doesn't automatically verify that none of the build-deps are in universe.
<Hobbsee> this is true
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: If you really want to check, modify your pbuilder's sources.list file.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'd prefer not to - it's nto my pbuilder
<TheMuso> Right.
* Hobbsee is DDOS'ing imbrandon's machine for a bit
<persia> Hobbsee: apt-cache madison each and every build-dep, and you're safe :)
<TheMuso> Ok... something is up with the builds
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee descreens, and waits
<TheMuso> None of the builds are building.
<TheMuso> build machines even
<Hobbsee> odd - are they set to manual?
<TheMuso> No.
<ajmitch> someone probably broke soyuz
<Hobbsee> likely
<Fujitsu> What has it done this time.
<Hobbsee> died
<Fujitsu> s/./?
<Fujitsu> I hate my Ethernet switch. It seems to stop working after a couple of weeks, and needs to be reset.
<Fujitsu> What ate DaD's comments?
<persia> Soyuz oddity: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/337690
<jmg> Soyuz = rocketfuel replacement?
<Fujitsu> Soyuz is the package management component of LP.
<Fujitsu> persia: Nice.
<persia> Fujitsu: I was just browsing needs-build to see if I should wait no submitting things, and that was the last entry.
<persia> s/no/on/
<Fujitsu> Hm, looks like PPA is targeted for 3 days from now.
<TheMuso> Yeah I have a few packages that are needs build, yet all build machines are sitting their idling.
<Fujitsu> The buildds have been stuffing up a lot lately.
<persia> Could anyone suggest a method to determine the PIC-ness of a .a file?
<RAOF> persia: Try to link it into an amd64 shared library? :)
<RAOF> You could probably disassemble it, and grep the assembly for (insert non-pic addressing modes that I don't have the assembler knowledge for)?
<persia> RAOF: I get R_X86_64_32S failures :).  objdump has been very helpful, but thanks.
<RAOF> And if you need access to an amd64 build box, just ask.
* RAOF extends this invitation to the whole of #ubuntu-motu
* ajmitch sticks his hand up
<RAOF> Certainly.  But don't you have access to the ubuntuwire build thingys ajmitch ?
<LaserJock> bah, ajmitch has his own amd64
<RAOF> Anyone else :P
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: but it's old & slow
<ajmitch> RAOF: ubuntuwire is lacking an amd64 still, iirc
* RAOF questions how slow an amd64 box can be.
* ajmitch personally doesn't need access
<RAOF> Really?  I thought ubuntuwire had everything (ppc, sparc even)
<RAOF> Obviously, not being an actual motu, I haven't been following too carfully :)
<ajmitch> just whatever imbrandon could get his grubby mitts on
<LaserJock> it has ppc, sparc, and i386
* Hobbsee taps fingers
* RAOF considers donating time on his box to ubuntuwire
<ajmitch> xen?
<RAOF> I'm not sure how the ubuntuwire things need to be set up.  I could try xen, I supopse :)
<Hobbsee> i wouldnt use ubuntuwire for anything time critical, atm...
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/devel/kde3.5.7/kdelibs$ scp kdelibs_3.5.7* ubuntuwire:kdelibs
<Hobbsee> Enter passphrase for key '/home/sarah/.ssh/id_dsa':
<Hobbsee> kdelibs_3.5.7-1ubuntu1.diff.gz                                                                           100%  524KB  19.4KB/s   00:27
<Hobbsee> kdelibs_3.5.7-1ubuntu1.dsc                                                                               100% 1490     1.5KB/s   00:00
<Hobbsee> kdelibs_3.5.7-1ubuntu1.dsc.asc                                                                           100%    0     0.0KB/s   00:00
<Hobbsee> kdelibs_3.5.7.orig.tar.gz                                                                                  7% 1292KB  15.7KB/s   18:06 ET
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: looks like you need new intertubes
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: i know.  i live in the wrong country.  that's why i'm copying to a US server now, as quickly as possible
* RAOF 's intertubes will need to be rewired soon, hopefully.
<Hobbsee> to what?
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: as if that country is much better ;P
<Hobbsee> true - i was only talking in terms of bandwidth
<RAOF> To our new flat (if we get it) :)
<ajmitch> RAOF: super-fast interweb?
<Hobbsee> ooh :)
<Hobbsee> where's hte new flat?
<ajmitch> a blazing fast 1.5Mbps?
<RAOF> Kensington, practically opposite UNSW
<RAOF> ajmitch: No, a blazing fast 24Mbit/sec
* Treenaks pokes his 100/100 line
<Hobbsee> ooh, nice :)
<RAOF> Ya.  It is actually possible to get adsl2+ in Sydney :)
* TheMuso drools
<ajmitch> RAOF: which will probably go at about 100Kbps for anything offshore :)
<RAOF> Quite true.  au.archive.ubuntu.com manages >= 1MB/sec, though.
* ajmitch is still waiting for telecom here to manage adsl2+
* RAOF wonders if telstra actually has any adsl2+ anywhere yet.  And whether it charges $1000 for it.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: yes, but au.archive.u.c *sucks*
<Hobbsee> use the mirror @ planet or whatever it is
<RAOF> Oooh, there's a better one?  Awesome.
* Fujitsu uses pacific
* RAOF checks & updates his sources.list.
* TheMuso uses 3fl, which apt-proxies to another mirror.
<Burgundavia> anybody notice how cheap broadband was in Spain
<Burgundavia> ?
<TheMuso> for gutsy, and internode for feisty
<Fujitsu> I get well over 1MB/s to it :)
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: come to .nl :)
<Burgundavia> 6mps for about 5/month
<RAOF> ???!
<Burgundavia> 5 euros, that is
* Hobbsee is envious
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: that's misleading... it doesn't include the (required) phone line
<Burgundavia> still
<Burgundavia> assuming you want to go with a bundle, it is a good price
<Treenaks> true
<Burgundavia> none of the bundles here in Canada are that good
<Fujitsu> And Australia doesn't come even slightly close.
<Treenaks> We have some (cheap) ISPs here that give you speeds like that for that price..
<Burgundavia> most of time it is about a 20% reduction, no worth the extra cost of getting useless crap
<Treenaks> they're mostly shit though :)
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how was your week around madrid?
<Burgundavia> excellent, save the trip back to Sevilla
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: next time, get a rebookable ticket; )
<ajmitch> yes, that would be a bit of a pain
<Burgundavia> Treenaks: I didn't book it
<ajmitch> did you end up standing outside the airport for several hours?
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: hmm
<Burgundavia> 3, in fact
<Burgundavia> with about 5 other people
<Burgundavia> pretty much all Americans
<ajmitch> heh
<Burgundavia> as their flights left Madrid really early
* ajmitch had a fairly uneventful but long trip back
* Hobbsee just had an eventful, long trip back
<Burgundavia> there are pretty much no flights leaving Europe for NA after about 11am, because otherwise they don't get to NA in time to turn around for a flight back the same day
<Treenaks> I had 2 'What kind of English is this captaing speaking?' flights...
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: eventful?
<Treenaks> go Iberia
<ajmitch> I just tuned out for most of what was said
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: didn't you read about the cigarette smuggling?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: trying to bring smokes into au, plane dying in singapore, plane that probably would have had to go to brisbane/melbourne/canberra if we had left on time, due to fog...
<Burgundavia> ahh, that
<Burgundavia> right, that was a whole week ago
<Burgundavia> how do you expect me to remember that? :)
<ajmitch> yeah, some of us had to come back early
<Hobbsee> because we expect you not to be a clueless mail.
<Hobbsee> er, male
<ajmitch> and not spend another week in the sun
* Hobbsee smacks fingers
<Treenaks> I get LOTS of clueless mail!
<Burgundavia> geez
<Burgundavia> so tired...
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: well.. sleep :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: they're only avoiding ALSA because they're insane and don't like fun!
<ajmitch> crimsun: aw
<ajmitch> I'm sure you can find some willing volunteers
<Burgundavia> ALSA: almost, but not completely, unlike a sane system
<Fujitsu> That reminds me: I think I can only use headphones in 2.6.22, not the main speakers. I should probably reboot and confirm that.
<crimsun> yeah, please do let me know if you've got a regression from feisty.  BenC doesn't forward-port quirks or sound/ fixes.
<Fujitsu> I'll reboot in a couple of minutes and check.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: please say at least those fixes are getting less
<Hobbsee> mmm....classy
<crimsun> Burgundavia: they are.
<Hobbsee> why has this only built half the binaires?
<ajmitch> crimsun: get Hobbsee to take on alsa
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Which package?
<crimsun> (she doesn't know yet, but she has.)
<ajmitch> excellent...
<crimsun> =)
<Hobbsee> pft
<ajmitch> crimsun: part of the conditions for her becoming core-dev?
<Fujitsu> Ah, that's why she's being forced into core-devness! All makes sense now.
* Fujitsu ducks.
<TheMuso> heh
<crimsun> excellent </smithers>
<jmg> crimsun: s/smithers/burns/g
<Fujitsu> smithers?
<crimsun> bah
<Fujitsu> Oh, that's a Simpons character, isn't it?
<jmg> Fujitsu: ^5
<crimsun> I suppose it's because I'm listening to a song that references smithers.
<jmg> crimsun: rainbow connection?
<Fujitsu> I think I've seen about 2 episodes.
<jmg> Fujitsu: you're doing well
<jmg> it annoys me that a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge chunk of what people call humor is regurgitated simpsons jokes.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: what was that discussion with cjwatson about core-dev stuff in -devel?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: sorry?
* Hobbsee needs slightly more context than that
<Hobbsee> er, how would i troubleshoot why all the binaries arent being built, when i run pbuilder build foo.dsc?
<Hobbsee> (the libs havent built)
<LaserJock> FTBFS ;-)
<Hobbsee> wait, i suck
<Hobbsee> nope, not that
<crimsun> arch-specific?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you were discussing something to with core dev and new procedures that you "didn't have time to object to"
<Burgundavia> archives are busy failing me
<Hobbsee> crimsun: no.  far more idiotic than that
<crimsun> wrong dsc? :-)
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: right.  LaserJock and myself were thinking about core dev, and then discovered that one had to be proposed, rather than propose oneself
<Hobbsee> crimsun: nope.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: just that i suck at using ls
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: ahh
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: rationale?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's not how I understood things to be
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: uh?  rationale for *what*?
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: needing to be proposed
<Hobbsee> ah right
<Hobbsee> not sure.  those were the rules put into place
<LaserJock> well, I was trying to get a quicky core-devship
<ajmitch> LaserJock: trying to sneak in the backdoor, you mean :)
<LaserJock> well, it's handy having everybody there, that's all
<Burgundavia> shouldn't be hard to get somebody to propose you
<LaserJock> and oli was eager for it ;-)
<LaserJock> well, it's not exactly "propose"
<LaserJock> mdz want the MC to take the app and review the person and pass on a recomendation to the TB
<LaserJock> the rationale being that the TB doesn't work with potential core-devs much
<ajmitch> which is different from someone being nominated for core-dev
<Burgundavia> ahh
<LaserJock> well, the MC nomincates with a recommendation
<ajmitch> the MC doesn't work with every potential core-dev member much
<LaserJock> the proplem was that it was just mdz telling oli
<crimsun> right, taking an app is quite different from evaluating a nomination
<LaserJock> which meant me asking daniel
<ajmitch> nothing has been decided yet, afaik
<LaserJock> which lead to daniel asking matt
<ajmitch> apart from whatever mdz wishes to happen
<Burgundavia> anyway, sleeping now
<ajmitch> lazy
<Hobbsee> heh, goodnight
<LaserJock> in the end "we're working on it"
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: basically that hte procedure is unclear, so no one's attempting to go thru it
<LaserJock> but it better not take as long as CC/TB votes ;-)
<crimsun> once there's a TB-approved protocol, things will move quickly
<LaserJock> sure
<crimsun> MC has been fast WRT turnaround for most MOTU applicants
<ajmitch> once the MC knows what on earth is expected of them, things may happens
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> you're expected to fix the world
<Hobbsee> right.  this might just build now
<LaserJock> it was just  tad odd because there was a TB approved protocol that Matt decided needed a change
* ajmitch resigns from MC
<LaserJock> hmm, what if I take ajmitch's place
<LaserJock> and nominate myself ;-)
<ajmitch> sure, go for it
<Hobbsee> hehe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: no thanks, I don't want it, sorry ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee will do it
<Hobbsee> only if i can change processes :P
* Hobbsee probably wouldnt mind doing it
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: so dont tempt me :P
<LaserJock> don't you have enough to do already? :-)
* ajmitch notes that Hobbsee has not put in any comments about changing processes on the lists or meetings
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because the meetings are at an insane time, i hate mailing lists, and you missed the first night.
<Hobbsee> where LaserJock and i and otehrs were discussing it
<LaserJock> heh, that was fun
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'm out of irc council now, remember...
<crimsun> Hobbsee: what processes are screwed, and what do you proposed in their stead?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: then please propose a decent time for a meeting
<ajmitch> we're still waiting on someone to put forward a time for the next meeting, since we're overdue
<LaserJock> for an MC meeting?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: it worries me how much we police our MOTU's, when they're expected to be responsible.  the SRU process is one of them
<ajmitch> LaserJock: for a MOTU meeting - we decided months ago not to have separate meetings
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun> Hobbsee: what about the [revised]  SRU process do you think is cumbersome?
<ajmitch> you want the SRU process changed yet again?
<ajmitch> about the only way it could be less policed would be if it were a total free-for-all
<Hobbsee> sorry, s/SRU/UVF/
<Hobbsee> too many acronyms
<LaserJock> well, the old SRU policy might be an example
<ajmitch> so you want any motu to be able to ignore UVF at his/her discretion?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: then again, if our MOTU's were all sensible and trustworthy, the free-for-all wouldnt be a problem, because there would be nothing insane going into hte archive.  *shrug*
<ajmitch> and you know that doesn't happen
<Hobbsee> yes.  see the "if" there.
<ajmitch> so what problems are there with the UVF process?
<crimsun> ok, so does the motu-uvf do too much policing?
<Hobbsee> there's so much work to be done - and how much time is going into motu-uvf stuff?
<Hobbsee> i'm not convinced that that time cant better be spent in other areas
<ajmitch> not very much time, really
<Hobbsee> (is the long and the short of it - i've never been terribly eloquent, which is one of the reasons i avoid ML's :P )
<LaserJock> well, I don't know that it's na issue of time
<ajmitch> hence why there are 5 members of the team
<LaserJock> it's an issue of should people be MOTUs if they have to be "policed" all the time
<crimsun> ok, so are you saying that that one (1) ~motu-uvf member is taking too long?
<crimsun> [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d6 for reference] 
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't think she is
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we constantly get pressure to get lots of people involved & into MOTU
<LaserJock> I think there's a comparison to Debian
<crimsun> are you saying that ~motu-uvf should go the way of the dodo?
<ajmitch> and not have the high barriers that debian has
<LaserJock> right
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i'm not sure.
<LaserJock> that's what the debate comes down to
<LaserJock> should we keep the "barrier" (I prefer something more along skill level) high
<LaserJock> and risk having too few
<LaserJock> or lower the barrier but have to do a lot more "policing"
<crimsun> WRT "barrier" - I think it's pretty reasonable currently, but I'm biased.
<LaserJock> it used to be that a MOTU could basically do anything in Universe, much like a DD in Debian
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i think losing that is a great tragedgy
<LaserJock> although admitidly those were some more "wild" days
<crimsun> so what has changed that ~motu can't "basically do anything"?
* Hobbsee was planning to bring more of this up at UDS, incidently.
<ajmitch> wilder days when fewer people used ubuntu, too
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> SRUs were trivial
<ajmitch> SRUs barely existed back then
<LaserJock> you didn't have to go through anybody first
<StevenK> A DD can apparently do anything in Debian, but there is a social cost, not a technical one.
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> a MOTU could ignore UVF if they wanted as well
<LaserJock> sure
<StevenK> Exactly.
<crimsun> ok, seriously, what problems do you see with the current Universe SRU protocol?
<Hobbsee> i think the SRU process is fine - there certainly needs to be some form of decent testing in there
<ajmitch> debian has far stricter freezes than ubuntu does
<Hobbsee> nto that iv'e done one since the new lot
<LaserJock> crimsun: not much with the current one. My issue is how long it took to get here and the number of times we had to change it
<ajmitch> if you're going to compare with debian, DDs end up being far more limited
<StevenK> I haven't either, so I'm not going to comment.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: well we're not perfect
<LaserJock> no, that's certainly understandable
<ajmitch> I threw out an initial proposal because noone could agree on anything
<crimsun> LaserJock: ok, so we're there now, and unfortunately, it may need to change as Ubuntu grows.
<LaserJock> and at the time i said somthing like "well, we can always change it later"
<ajmitch> it was pretty much what main did
<StevenK> LaserJock: Exactly. You can't say that "it took too long to get here" as a problem with the current proposal.
<ajmitch> I don't see it as a bad thing that we were able to look at it & change it
<LaserJock> but it can at times be very difficult in MOTU because policies can fairly rapidly change
<crimsun> are there issues with the current universe UVF protocol?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we do to many of them
<LaserJock> ;-)
* ajmitch sighs
<StevenK> LaserJock: It's like saying "It takes too long to get from .au to .uk" and blaming the carrier, not the technology.
<ajmitch> so there are issues, but they're unspecified, and there's no way to fix them
<LaserJock> StevenK: no, but I'm saying perhaps we can improve on the way we get there
<LaserJock> well, one of the biggest issues I see is that we attack Universe as a whole
<crimsun> LaserJock: ok, how would you characterise the current slowdown in adjusting protocL?
<StevenK> LaserJock: But that can't be a problem with the current SRU procedure.
<crimsun> protocol ^
<Hobbsee> i susepct UVF is just viewed as red tape to get past
<LaserJock> crimsun: in general communication problems
<Hobbsee> not as a way of going "okay, do i really think this fix is needed, vs any other bugs it may bring?"
<LaserJock> for a while we had like 3 different SRU polices running around the wiki
* ajmitch gives up & walks home
<Hobbsee> and i think the number of UVF's show that
<LaserJock> the thing I see though is people getting launched at large lists
<LaserJock> without really any prioritization
* TheMuso notes that the few UVFs he has filed, have been for good reason.
<LaserJock> UVFs are good, we need them
<StevenK> I don't remember filing many, either.
<LaserJock> but I see a lot of "work" in MOTU that's done just because it's on a list
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yes, but you're sane
<LaserJock> it's very difficult to prioritze this stuff
<LaserJock> I've advocated teams
<LaserJock> as I think it alows us to break large task lists into chuncks
<Fujitsu> Teams are a necessary thing, there's just too much stuff around otherwise. But then packages get left behind because they're not in teams.
<StevenK> And DPL after DPL have advocated them over and over again too.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: but I think that can be handled reasonably too
<StevenK> I personally don't think teams will work for everything which is what some people seem to be advocating.
<LaserJock> sure, but I think it at least helps
<crimsun> I concur with StevenK.  Teams tend to affect the overall speed at which something is accomplished, not whether that something is accomplished.
<TheMuso> Since there aren't that many a11y packages in universe, compared to everything else, I'm happy to maintain them solo atm.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I disagree
<LaserJock> crimsun: it something isn't prioritized or even known it will almost certainly not get done
<StevenK> LaserJock: Of course not, but teams don't solve that problem.
<LaserJock> sure they do
<StevenK> Okay, how do they?
<Fujitsu> I monitor all the science bugs. I notice when one is filed.
<LaserJock> if I have to look after 20 packages rather than 20,000 it makes a big difference
<StevenK> How can a team solve a bug that it doesn't know about?
<Fujitsu> Those couple of hundred packages are fairly closely observed.
<LaserJock> because a team is a natural way to monitor things
<LaserJock> MOTU Science is the use case I'm most familiar with
<Fujitsu> A selection of packages is easier to keep track of that 16000.
<StevenK> But this is the problem. It isn't one MOTU versus entire universe, it's *all of us*.
<LaserJock> we moniotr 450+ packages
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> that's fine
<LaserJock> but it lends focus to an area
<jsgotangco> sorry to butt in, but isn't that what team is for, so to focus on a certain area
<StevenK> But it also leads to neglecting other areas.
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but if the area is important a team will form
<LaserJock> and there will certainly people who want to work on the "neglected" area
<StevenK> If LaserJock and Fujitsu only focus on the science packages, it leaves us effectively 2 people short for the rest. And no other teams.
<jsgotangco> would it be more effective if a team can actually focus on apps that they do now how it works rather than try to cover anything?
<Fujitsu> I prioritise science packages, but do touch the rest.
<LaserJock> StevenK: but that's not the way it works
<StevenK> It's an example, not reality.
<jsgotangco> s/now/know
<LaserJock> I prioritize (as Fujitsu has said) on science apps, but I certianly touch others as well
<LaserJock> but I see every science bug
<LaserJock> and I can quickly see how things are doing in Science
<LaserJock> maybe we're the exception to the rule or something
<LaserJock> but it seems like a very "Ubuntu" way to do things
<Hobbsee> the science team seems to do well
<Hobbsee> kde team doesnt do too badly, either, packagewise - but merge wise is bad
<Hobbsee> er, s/merge/bugs/
<crimsun> that's because all you've done is pruned your namespace
<crimsun> it's not wrong, per se - in fact, it's quite natural
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> i dont know what the magic solution is
<crimsun> but it does, as StevenK said, not address the issue of handling 15k packages.
<Hobbsee> but i think there's certainly a lot of appeal lost when we can no longer say "the sky is the limit" - and i'll admit that concerns me
<LaserJock> well, in my opinion it helps
<StevenK> Well, it leaves the rest of us to look after 15k-450 packages.
<StevenK> Which is a small drop in the bucket.
<LaserJock> no it doesn't
<crimsun> LaserJock: it definitely helps smaller namespaces, yes.  I do agree.
<Fujitsu> It helps with the packages under that team, but not the rest. Right.
<jsgotangco> we just don't have the numbers for now
<LaserJock> well, I think it could help the rest
<LaserJock> giving people a place to plug into MOTU
<Hobbsee> but there's no lifelong dedication to maintain packages for a specific team, forever.  or indeed at all
<LaserJock> and get mentorship
<jsgotangco> if we had the numbers, the teams would work nicely
<LaserJock> will help MOTU as a whole
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no it doesnt to what, sorry?
<crimsun> leaves the rest of us to look after 15k-450 packages
<crimsun> ^
<LaserJock> yes
<StevenK> Apparently.
<Hobbsee> right, yes
<StevenK> I'm unconvinced.
<LaserJock> well, IMO and I could be wrong, but not all Universe package should be treated alike
<LaserJock> we *have* to prioritize our work
<Hobbsee> indeed
<StevenK> And who's to decide which packages should have priority?
<Hobbsee> i've got the feeling that MOTU has bitten off way more they can chew, and i'm not sure where the cutbacks should be
<LaserJock> because we can't handle all of Universe to a satisfactory level (although that is I guess debatable)
<jml> StevenK: me :)
<LaserJock> StevenK: interest of course
<Hobbsee> StevenK: interest, i guess.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Waaay more.
<StevenK> *Everybody* is going to biased.
<LaserJock> sure
<StevenK> going to be
<LaserJock> but if you get enough then they are all working ;-)
<crimsun> ok, so popcon results are one metric.
<crimsun> Are there other effective ones?
<StevenK> popcon results don't work, IMO
<LaserJock> well, as I'm saying, teams
<Hobbsee> is that a problem, though?  that hte packages that we're not interested in are just straight syncs from deiban, wher ehopefully someoen cares about them there?
<Hobbsee> i meant developer interest, and some teams, not user interest
<crimsun> do LP bug reports correspond roughly to popcon rankings?
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure
<StevenK> I daresay that is already happening, though. A whole bunch of packages are synced, worked and are never touched.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: That's a lot of screenscraping.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and a fair few ones new to ubuntu, whcih are now out of date
<StevenK> s/worked/work/
<Hobbsee> or like the tex ones (used to be?), which we're not getting the fix in time for
<Hobbsee> no idea what's happening now though, with them
<StevenK> I mean, even MoM shows that. More than 75% of universe is unmodified from Debian.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: how do teams correspond to problems with UVF?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: not when you have packages which are Krap, like democracyplayer
<StevenK> Ah, the KDE definition of crap.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: policing
* StevenK hides.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you'll need to be more verbose than that
<LaserJock> essentially, I feel like we do sometimes have a bit too much generalization
<LaserJock> we need it for sure
<LaserJock> but we need people who know the packages as well
<TheMuso> Ins ome ways, I wish more people wanted to get involved with packaging who lirk on the a11y lists, but on the other hand, I'm happy to work on everything myself. :)
* Hobbsee beats StevenK 
<StevenK> Ouch!
<crimsun> Hobbsee: right.  By that indication, democracyplayer is a fairly popular package.  (I'd be inclined to agree.)
<Fujitsu> There are about 1400 with Ubuntu modifications, and 500 (-shudder-) that are new. That's still a lot.
<LaserJock> if team leaders can sort of mentore/lead a team that spreads the load around
<LaserJock> and makes it so it isn't just a few people that end up doing most of the work
* TheMuso looks at the number of people in here, and wonders how many of the lirkers can be convinced to help out.
<StevenK> TheMuso: lurkers
<TheMuso> StevenK: bah of course
<crimsun> let me just interject that leading a team doesn't necessarily lead to more people doing most of the work
<LaserJock> no
* RAOF was convinced by actually wanting something in Universe, and by REVU being very approachable
<LaserJock> that's true
<StevenK> And may lead to burnout of the leader.
<Hobbsee> what i'm wondering though, is if we have no interest in a certain package, why are we modifying it?  why not leave it to debian, and focus on other things?
<LaserJock> well, I don't know, it just seems very logical to me
<TheMuso> SPeaking of teams, and bugmail, has anybody worked out a good way to filter email from LP using procmail?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I wish I could do that with a11y.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: What do you want to do with it?
<LaserJock> "tackling Universe as a whole is not always working that well" -> "let's break it up into logical chuncks"
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: +1
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Filter separate team email into mailboxes, i.e teams that don't use a ml for mail.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: people have been trying to do that for awhile
<LaserJock> it's certianly not the only answer
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: There's a new bit at the bottom that says that, but I'm not sure how I'd parse that
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but not very successfully
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I know.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: so suggest how it should be done then
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure
<LaserJock> as I said, MOTU Science seems to work fairly well, I'm not sure why
<crimsun> it's pretty clear why. It's a limited namespace.
<ajmitch> why should the UVF team take a hands-off approach because the people in a team 'only' have 500 packages to look after?
<LaserJock> I mean, it just seems better than the alternative to me
<jsgotangco> it has a composition of people interested in certain packages
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's a bit orthogonal to my current discussion
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: who are then more likely to actually do things on them, yes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: right, well I was trying to find out why people were complaining so much about UVF & MOTU being a police state & all
<LaserJock> but to me, if people are prioritizing on a limited namespace, as crimsun puts it, then they are more likely to make better decisions
<LaserJock> because they know the packages better, hopefully
<StevenK> Which might be to the detriment of other packages.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: which is where we rely on debian
<LaserJock> my big complaint is that often times people mess around with packages they don't use, don't test, don't even have a clue how to test
<StevenK> And since your focus is narrowed, you don't notice, and futhermore, don't care.
<LaserJock> StevenK: honestly fine
<Hobbsee> who have the people who are interested in them.
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's trivially clear, yes. The problem is not that carving namespaces isn't effective, it's that we will not - in the near future - gain enough dedicated MOTU to make such an approach effective.
<LaserJock> if some packages fall through the cracks I really don't care
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It depends if you want all the packages to be fairly crap, or some packages to be good, and the others maybe slightly worse.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: But sometimes Debian can't help us, for example, when we hit transitions before them.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: this is true
<LaserJock> as long as the ones that we do care about get properly treated
<jsgotangco> this is still very much a numbers game
<StevenK> Where we is MOTU Science, or MOTU?
<LaserJock> MOTU
<Hobbsee> and it will tned to bring people in, who are motivated to fix their area of interest
<crimsun> jsgotangco: it will remain such, I'm afraid.
* Fujitsu convinces half of Debian to come over here.
<LaserJock> if there isn't enough interest to create a team around something then it can go in the "misc" pile
<StevenK> And then where is the misc team?
<LaserJock> and there are always people willing to look at those
<ajmitch> where 90% of universe == misc
<LaserJock> possibly
<StevenK> But that is already the case.
<Hobbsee> does misc refer to ubuntu-changed packages, or all packages?
<LaserJock> I'm just advocating expanding our emphasis on teams, that's all
<LaserJock> not making it mandatory or anything
<LaserJock> I think all packages
<LaserJock> but surely if Ubuntu has changed a package we are obligated to maintain that divergence
<TheMuso> But does a team work better if everybody is a MOTU, or does the team slow down if most are new MOTU hopefuls?
<LaserJock> well, when I started MOTU Science there were 0 MOTUs in it
<TheMuso> The thing that worries me about lots of teams, is that its easy to create teams, but unless there are MOTUs who are also interested, the team's progress could be slow.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: depends hwo good the sponsorship is
<crimsun> TheMuso: ubuntu-audio is a good example.  A lot of people simply leave the group (not to mention the members who haven't done a thing at all).
<TheMuso> Sure there are the various sponsors channels, but if there si a big queue, it might take a while for those packages to be looked at,.
<LaserJock> if people really feel like team maintainence is no good then fine, it was just a suggestion
<LaserJock> I was just impressed on how well MOTU Science worked out
<TheMuso> Teams are good.
<LaserJock> and wanted to see that continue in other areas of MOTU
<LaserJock> I just feel like we're drowning
<LaserJock> maybe it's just me being cynical but I don't really forsee MOTU surviving more than a release or two at this pace
* TheMuso thought that drowning was a given, until we had at least 200 odd active MOTUs,.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i was trying to avoid saying that
<crimsun> 15k is still a stretch for 200 dedicated MOTU.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Alright, 500.
<LaserJock> our user/internal demand seems to be scaling much more rapidly than our ability to keep up with it
<LaserJock> we get nailed every release for pretty obvious problems
<TheMuso> LaserJock: By whom?
<LaserJock> we should have essentially no SRUs
<LaserJock> because when we release we shouldn't be releasing crap
<TheMuso> I do remember seeing SRUs that have involved packages that haven't previously been touched.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: forums/reviewers/users/ourselves
<jsgotangco> so you're saying we sync pretty much crap
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we end up decreasing Debian's quality
<LaserJock> which is a shame
<crimsun> we do?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> if you compare Etch to any Ubuntu release
<TheMuso> Some would probably think that since Debian is so large, its quality has dropped...
<Hobbsee> if we're doing nothing, then we should be equal.  if we're decreasing debian, that's a problem..
<LaserJock> we take a snapshot of sid, which at any given time has a fair amount of brokeness
<TheMuso> I have seen some rpetty shocking debian packages, in terms of maintainability.
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: surely a thousand+ debian packages in etch are crap
<LaserJock> but then sid in the mean time fixes problems
<LaserJock> but we don't pick them up
<jsgotangco> we don't have grumpy that's why
<LaserJock> heh
<TheMuso> pretty even
<LaserJock> if you look at the RC stats that lucas did
<crimsun> can that be alleviated by having autosync run until RC for universe?
<LaserJock> that would help
<LaserJock> but it would also introduce more bugs too
<StevenK> And leave us how long to fix bugs?
<LaserJock> UVF is good
<LaserJock> it's just that we need to know what to do exceptions for
<LaserJock> when we take the snapshot from sid we then need to be careful to pull in the subsequent fixes
<LaserJock> this happens fairly frequently with TeX packages
* Hobbsee wonders what would happen if the sync was on till RC
<Fujitsu> ajmitch's RC bug stuff helped a lot with that.
<LaserJock> we had and RC bug in Dapper that was fixed in Debian for some months
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The Canonical people would have us murdered, I'd guess.
<TheMuso> For those of us who used it, yes.
<LaserJock> and that was for a Main package
<LaserJock> let alone for Universe
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yay, murder!  there's going to be a murder tonight!
<Fujitsu> There's stuff in main (like TeX) that's barely maintained.
<Fujitsu> Feisty's TeXLive is a mess.
<LaserJock> so what we need is to be able to see this stuff
<LaserJock> that's why I think ajmitch's list was awesome
<LaserJock> that's the stuff we need to push
<LaserJock> .desktops are nice, but when push-comes-to-shove we need to fix the "big" stuff before release
<LaserJock> and that's where I find that focusing down a bit
<LaserJock> can allow for that
<LaserJock> it's all a balance I suppose
<LaserJock> we need some trivial tasks to get Hopefuls up to speed
<jsgotangco> yeah use big pointy sticks
<TheMuso> Isn't that was bitesyze/needs packaging tags are for?
* jsgotangco hides
<crimsun> ok, so far the one concrete thing to arise is that we should ask for autosync to be extended for Universe
<TheMuso> Or do you think hopefuls are daunted by the bug system?
* Hobbsee spears jsgotangco 
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: they seem to have been good
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yes, but if MOTUs spend most of their time sponsoring them rather than working on RC bugs it's a problem
<crimsun> RC is probably a bit much.  Is Beta more feasible?
<LaserJock> crimsun: I really don't know about that
<Fujitsu> RC is definitely too much.
* TheMuso thinks even beta is too much,.
<Fujitsu> I'm really not sure about when is better, though.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I think it might be, yes.
<LaserJock> again, my problem isn't so much timing, but what we do afterwards
<Fujitsu> It's hard to say,.
<Hobbsee> this isnt a LTS release, it can be an experiment
<Hobbsee> next one is the more important
<LaserJock> the auto sync should at least go to UVF
<imbrandon> +1 on till beta
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You saw the outrage after Edgy. We can't afford to have an experiment.
<LaserJock> June 21st is just way to early for Universe
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That requires infrastructure to not sync new upstream versions...
<crimsun> remember that Beta is still one month prior to final.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: Oh, is it that early?
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: we equally cant afford to keep having these huge bugs that have been fixed in deiban, irc
* Fujitsu checks GutsyReleaseSchedule.
* Hobbsee cant spell today
<Hobbsee> crimsun: sounds reasonable
<imbrandon> i think beta is a good target, and Hobbsee *cough* sru *cough*
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: sru what now?
* Hobbsee is not sru'able.
<imbrandon> 01:14 < Hobbsee> Fujitsu: we equally cant afford to keep having these huge bugs that have been fixed in deiban, irc
<LaserJock> bah
<Hobbsee> oh, yeah, right
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: We can't just SRU everything.
<Fujitsu> We have an enormous number of SRUs.
<LaserJock> I denote a tad bit of sarcasm there ;-)
<Fujitsu> When they should have been easily fixed prior to release.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no, but "big bugs [..] " we can
<LaserJock> s/denote/hear/ perhaps is better
<crimsun> if we target Beta for stopping the autosync for Universe, then we gain 3 months of possible syncable RC bugfixes.
<Hobbsee> sounds worht having
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: A lot of these big bugs are tiny fixes.
<TheMuso> I siply think that since we are spread so thinly, we don't know about problems until users report them sometimes.
<Fujitsu> crimsun: As well as three months of crack-inducing post-Etch bugs.
<Fujitsu> s/crack/bugs s/bugs/crack/
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: got a solution to that?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: that's a huge problem
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: No.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: darn.  please find one
<LaserJock> well, moving the autosync is one
<LaserJock> we need to harness Debian there
<Fujitsu> We need more users to test, but the release cycles are too short and people are advised to not test until the end.
<LaserJock> Debian users are reporting bugs and debian maintainers are fixing them
<LaserJock> (hopefully)
<TheMuso> How many maintainers regularly work on their packages in Debian?
<LaserJock> depends on the package of course
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<LaserJock> but quite a few are pretty responsive
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: on balance of probability?  more than we do.
<LaserJock> depends on the bug as well
<crimsun> ok, so I feel we should discuss whether the three months of additional autosync are worth it.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: There are more of them. :)
<crimsun> I feel that it would be.
* Hobbsee --> afk for a bit
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: exactly
<TheMuso> crimsun: So would this be post UVF?
<Fujitsu> crimsun: I think at least an extra two, but perhaps three.
<TheMuso> brb getting some fruit...
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm thinking about that
<imbrandon> crimsun, i by far feel it would be too
<Fujitsu> 2 would align with UVF.
<crimsun> TheMuso: it would effectively kill the current UVF.
<TheMuso> crimsun: right
<TheMuso> really brb
* jsgotangco nap time
<LaserJock> I would think moving the autosync to UVF would at least be good
<Fujitsu> We probably can't get any more bugs in by extending it than we have now.
<crimsun> UVF is currently one month and a few days prior to Beta Freeze
<crimsun> so asking for autosync to run until UVF would gain nearly two months of syncable fixes/crack
<LaserJock> well darn it, I gotta get to bed
<Fujitsu> Night LaserJock.
<crimsun> are we comfortable with proposing that to Tollef?
<StevenK> But this might get turned down by the archive admins.
<TheMuso> I'm sure the rest of the MC/tech board would have something to say...
<LaserJock> I think autosync till UVF and then getting ajmitch's RC fix scripts rocking well would really help out
<StevenK> Say, if the autosyncer doesn't care where a package is, be it universe or main.
<LaserJock> that should be a bug ;-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I have a feeling that it doesn't.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Well, we'll just have to fix it... Wait, damn.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Exactly.
<LaserJock> we'll just have to go on strike until it's fixed ;-)
<StevenK> Oh yes, *that'll* help.
* imbrandon strikes untill he gets more pringles and mt dew
<LaserJock> anyway, night all. great discussion. please somebody email -motu if there is something concrete to be tossed around
<Fujitsu> Damn immutable critical infrastructure.
<StevenK> This is one of the things I find a little irritating about Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Which?
<StevenK> But a lot less irritating than Debian is.
<crimsun> closed-source nature of critical infrastructure, I presume.
<Fujitsu> But Debian's isn't closed...
<Fujitsu> Oh, you mean it doesn't make it as annoying as Debian is overall?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The fact that you have us as community members, a big grey cloud, and then the distro team who touch the critical stuff.
<Fujitsu> The distro team, who touch the vast minority of the archive.
<StevenK> No, I mean that working with Ubuntu even with this irritation is less irritating than working on Debian at all.
<StevenK> And how processes such as the autosyncer are non-transparent.
<TheMuso> brb again...
<Fujitsu> Well, we're stuck with the proprietary, incapable infrastructure. We just have to work around it as we've done for ever.
<Fujitsu> It's inconvenient, but I can't see LP becoming all great in the foreseeable future.
<StevenK> In some ways, Launchpad is better and worse than the Debian infrastructure.
<Fujitsu> In what ways is it better?
<crimsun> hmm, what would we do for packages autosynced in that b-d on newer main packages?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Good point.
<imbrandon> crimsun, thats where the problem lies
<Fujitsu> We replace the autosyncer with a hacked up britney.
<TheMuso> After all this, I am still pondering whether to apply for Debian maintainer.
<crimsun> you have nothing to lose and something to gain.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What is it that makes Debian so irritating?
<TheMuso> Very true.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Politics.
<Fujitsu> Irritating politics versus closed, restrictive infrastructure. I think I'd take the former, as it's possible to ignore.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no web interface for bug reports, politics, general slowness on getting a whole distro consinsus , tons of things
<StevenK> Debian used to be about rough concensus and working code. Now it seems to be about flaming each other to death on mailing lists and arguing about pointless crap.
<imbrandon> StevenK, +1
<crimsun> politics can be crippling, however. Not that Debian is crap. Just different to Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I don't see that first one as a problem.
<Fujitsu> Although there is a SoC project to write a proper web interface.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, to each its own, to me it means no bug reporting 
<TheMuso> I must admit, I do like the email way of reporting bugs in debian. Its efficient.
<crimsun> I wish the crontab ran more frequently, but that's about it.
<crimsun> much love for the email way of BTS.
<imbrandon> email is about the farthest thing from efficient in my world
<imbrandon> in any aspect
<imbrandon> but thats just my 0.02c
<imbrandon> :)
<crimsun> of course. Different usage patterns.
<Fujitsu> So, this seems to have sort of died.
* TheMuso is doing mostly non-MOTU related stuff atm.
<crimsun> I'm not sure how to resolve the issue I mentioned above.
<Fujitsu> Don't autosync them, and provide a list of stuff that has been skipped for that reason?
<crimsun> would require looking deeper into the dsc, I suppose.
<crimsun> I'm also not sure how easily that's extended [in the autosyncer] .
<crimsun> if it's feasible and of low cost to the distro team, we could propose that universe be autosynced until UVF.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you shouldnt have killed it.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It does look like I did.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes.  bad Fujitsu.  now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
<Fujitsu> That I shall.
<TheMuso> heh
* Fujitsu jumps out of the corner now that she's gone.
<Baby> hi
<Fujitsu> Hi Baby.
<Baby> :)
<Baby> how does one get a newer package in Debian into Ubuntu's repositories?
<Fujitsu> If there are no changes, it will happen automatically.
<Fujitsu> No Ubuntu changes, that is.
<Baby> aha.. how long does it take?
<Fujitsu> If there are, it will have to be merged, which will probably happen anyway.
<Fujitsu> The autosyncer runs every few days.
<Fujitsu> Which package?
<Baby> swfmill
<Fujitsu> !info swfmill gutsy
<ubotu> Package swfmill does not exist in gutsy
<Fujitsu> Is it a new package?
<crimsun> yes.
<Baby> yup
<Fujitsu> Hm,.
<Fujitsu> It's there though.
<crimsun> it's awaiting binary NEW.
<Fujitsu> Maybe not NEWed.
<Baby> I put it into Debian some days ago
<Fujitsu> crimsun is too fast.
<Baby> gnash will depend on it for some checks, that's why i ask, i've been asked about that myself
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/336963
<crimsun> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcrypt
<Fujitsu> !find libgcrypt gutsy
<ubotu> Found: libgcrypt11, libgcrypt11-dbg, libgcrypt11-dev, libgcrypt11-doc
<Fujitsu> Missing a build-depend, I see.
<Baby> hmm lets check
<ASCIIGirl> Baby, o/
<Baby> hi ASCIIGirl! :)
<Baby> I don't think I build-depend on it
<Baby> strange
<crimsun> dpkg-deb: building package `swfmill' in `../swfmill_0.2.12-1_amd64.deb'.
<crimsun> no, you're definitely missing it as a b-d.
<crimsun> I just pbuilt it with that change to debian/control:Build-Depends
<crimsun> it'll probably be easier for you to roll -2, then it'll sync in automatically.
<Baby> thanks :)
<Baby> why isn't that b-d missing in debian I wonder
<Fujitsu> Baby: I wonder the same.
<Baby> anyway I'll add it to -2, it's no harm
<crimsun> it's not specific to Debian, it looks like.  Some package in Ubuntu is pulling it in.
<crimsun> (comparing with http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=swfmill;ver=0.2.12-1;arch=i386;stamp=1178893492 )
<Fujitsu> Doesn't that mean the Ubuntu package should depend on it?
<crimsun> yes, I'm trying to find which package is pulling it in.
<Fujitsu> I'd have tried, but I've got no idea how to do it.
<Baby> no problem, I'm adding it to B-D
<Baby> that'll be the safer way to solve that
<Fujitsu> Baby: Not really. The Ubuntu package should depend on it, which means something here is wrong.
<Baby> Aha, I don't do anything about that then?
<Fujitsu> Probably not.
<Fujitsu> We'll see what crimsun says.
<Baby> oki, thanks :)
<Baby> yup
<crimsun> chroot error, it looks like.
<crimsun> Baby: nothing wrong with -1, false alarm.
<Baby> cool, thanks! :)
<Fujitsu> How could a chroot error cause an extra link attempt?
<crimsun> mismatched b-ds?
<crimsun> a current gutsy pbuilder compiles the Debian source package fine
<Fujitsu> Hm.
<imbrandon> dm-mod/win 17
<imbrandon> err
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<pochu> Good morning folks!
<pochu> elkbuntu: are you using feisty?
<elkbuntu> pochu, i am, yes. why?
<gnomefreak> pochu: she was
<gnomefreak> ah still is
<gnomefreak> morning elkbuntu :)
<elkbuntu> morning gnomefreak
<Adri2000> welshbyte, Fujitsu: wow, I've just seen what happened with DaD. looking at the logs, it seems that because of a md5sum mismatch on archive.u.c, the repository updates failed, and that created a wrong merge list. that's why a lot of comments disappeared. luckily I have a backup of the comments from yesterday.
<pochu> elkbuntu: could you please take a look at Bug #103688? It's really easy to reproduce: start liferea, move to a folder, and move to another folder :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103688 in liferea "liferea crashes - ** ERROR **: file itemlist.c: line 172 (itemlist_load): assertion failed: (NULL != itemSet)" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103688
<pochu> elkbuntu: the package in feisty-proposed fixes it. Could you check it and leave a comment? :)
<gnomefreak> see and i just rebooted from feisty to gutsy :(
<pochu> lol :/
<pochu> anybody else is welcome to test!
<pochu> elkbuntu: I'm asking you since you said in your Solar System mail that you use liferea :p
<pochu> hey persia!
<pochu> persia: thanks for your mail. I'll look at it asap (read: in ~1 hour).
<persia> Hey pochu.  Thanks - let me know if you need anything.
<persia> StevenK: When you have a minute, I'd like to chat about the kid3 .po files.
<StevenK> persia: I'm eating dinner, but go ahead.
<persia> StevenK: I was just wondering if you preserved special .po files from Ubuntu in the last merge (that I can't find in the changelog), or if there's nothing special about them (in which case I'll match Debian).
<StevenK> Hrm.
<persia> StevenK: Later is fine :)
<StevenK> persia: Looking at the files I kept around, it seems I changed the control file and rules. Nothing more.
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> persia: No problem.
<pochu> jdong: looks like you can upload ktorrent to -proposed :) bug 110881.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 110881 in ktorrent "[SRU]  Citical bug cherrypicks from SVN" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110881
<StevenK> Typical. The Thai place I'm trying tonight is cheaper (by a fair amount, actually) than the place near the office, and by all accounts is better.
<imbrandon> StevenK, sounds about on par with most things
<StevenK> imbrandon: For food, I don't mind paying a little more, if its worth it. For what I paid at the place near the office, I was expecting the best Thai I'd ever eaten. It didn't get close.
<imbrandon> the McD's of Thai
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> hrm can a reiserfs filesysm be shrank online ?
<StevenK> resize_reiserfs says unmounted.
<imbrandon> crapballs
<StevenK> Why you'd use ReiserFS, is beyond me.
<imbrandon> i am switching an old server over to new hdd's
<imbrandon> that has reiser on it
<imbrandon> the new fs is ext3
<StevenK> But why the need to shrink it?
<ajmitch> because of ricerfs
<imbrandon> because i was gonna cheat and leave /boot on it and move the / to the new fs and shrink boot to say 500MB
<imbrandon> and LVM the rest
<imbrandon> but now i guess i'll just move everything online to the new / ( temp mounted at /mtn/new ) and then fixup grub, reboot and then lvextend the old drives 
<imbrandon> or something similar to that , and hope i dont screw something up
<imbrandon> sound sane?
<welshbyte> good morning all
<imbrandon> ello
* persia idly wonders about dh_iconcache in Debian
<dholbach> persia: debian bug 369755 :-(
<ubotu> Debian bug 369755 in debhelper "Use dh_iconcache to update GTK's icon cache." [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/369755
<Fujitsu> Why did I just get a whole lot of binary rejections from Soyuz?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: because stuff is being restarted, I suspect
<Fujitsu> I don't see how that would cause it to reject autobuilt binaries, but you never know...
<imbrandon> brb
<ajmitch> it's soyuz
<Fujitsu> I was going to say that, but I felt more LP-bashing wouldn't have been thought well of.
* StevenK waits for Soyuz and the buildds to sort themselves out before uploading clanlib.
<StevenK> Most Pointless Merge Ever.
* ajmitch waits for krb5 to build before uploading samba
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  I'm still not sure I understand, but I can at least see why.
<dholbach> persia: what is your question?
<crimsun> orion2012: hi, sorry for the lag in responding.  I'm happy to help point out some areas that you can start in, e.g., https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU#head-ec7a97d5af67e96747b4f36993232ff434f4486c
<persia> dholbach: I need to learn more about GTK+ icon cache, the relation with KDE, freedesktop standards, and current plans for various transitions in Debian before I can ask it coherently.  When I have it defined, I'll ask again :)
<StevenK> Half the reason that bug remains unfixed is joeyh doesn't like us changing debhelper.
<persia> StevenK: I thought there were some good points about cache coherency, directory choices, and the burden on maintainers listed in the bug threads, but as I said, I'm not informed enough to have a real opinion yet.
<dholbach> persia: gtk-update-icon-cache generates a cache file for a given icon theme - gtk uses it (in gnome and xfce) and uses less memory and is quicker - kde doesn't use it -- it's painful to have the diff in ubuntu, but there's not much I can do about it atm :-/
<persia> dholbach: Interesting.  I was just merging a QT based program that used dh_iconcache, and now definitely should learn more.  Given the bug threads, I wouldn't expect anything could be done in the short (or even medium) term.  Please don't feel any pressure from me :)
<dholbach> persia: it uses dh_iconcache, because (I guess) it installs an icon to usr/share/icons/hicolor (which is used in gnome/xfce apps as well) - installing a file to that dir needs updating the cache
<persia> dholbach: I suspect as much.  Thanks again.
<dholbach> if you have any questions, let me know
<orion2012> crimsun: OK, thanks
<pgquiles> could any admin please change bug 115943 importance to "wishlist"?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115943 in Ubuntu "ITP libsnmp++ needs packaging" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115943
* TheMuso looks
<TheMuso> Done.
<pgquiles> TheMuso: thank you
<TheMuso> pgquiles: You're welcome.
<pgquiles> by the way, I need reviewers/advocates for libtomcrypt (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5231)
<TheMuso> I'll have a look in a minute.
<pgquiles> TheMuso: thank you
<pochu> persia: we might want to add a patch system to wx2.8... it would make things easier :)
<persia> pochu: There's no Debian package, so I don't see why we shouldn't.  Do you prefer dpatch or quilt?
<StevenK> Quilt. Shiver.
<persia> StevenK: You don't like quilt?
<StevenK> I just prefer dpatch over it.
<pochu> persia: I don't really mind. dpatch is fine with me.
<persia> Two of the packages I watch changed from dpatch to quilt for gutsy, and while more complicated, it seemed more flexible.
<persia> pochu: Let's use dpatch then.
<pochu> ok, cool :)
<persia> pochu: Also, I recommend sending any compile fixes, etc back to Vadim.  He seems happy to apply things, and is very eager to see distribution :)
<pochu> :)
<pochu> persia: I think we just have one fix which isn't applied in 2.8 (but is in trunk): bug 91853
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91853 in wxwidgets2.8 "extra semicolon breaks compile when -pedantic used, fixed upstream" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91853
<persia> pochu: That matches my read, and Vadim isn't subscribed to that bug, so it might not get upstream without a push.
<persia> nevermind - didn't read correctly.  Is it still missing in 2.8.4?
<pochu> Yes, it is.
<persia> Hrm.
<imbrandon> ohhh 5ghz power6's get announced tomarrow :)
<TheMuso> imbrandon: nice.
<TheMuso> Must run bloody hot.
<imbrandon> heh , but power soooo rocks imho
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<imbrandon> http://www.theregister.com/2007/05/20/ibm_power6_oracle/
<StevenK> Mmmmm, the Power arch
<ajmitch> ScottK: congrats :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<pschulz01> Evening.. where can I find information on how to populate a '-dev' package..  
<pschulz01> I have used 'dh_make' to create a library package and a '-dev', and it uses 'the GNU autotools' so that's all cool.. except I meed to know how to get the *.h's into the '-dev' package.
<pschulz01> (wondering if there is a make command in the GNU autoconf tools that should set that up foe me.
<persia> pschulz01: I suggest debian/libfoo-dev.install.  Take a look at a few other library packages for examples.
<pschulz01> persia: Ta.
<ScottK> ajmitch: Thanks.  Now I get to have less time for my own Ubuntu work because people will be pestering me to review theirs.
<persia> ScottK: You'll get down to zero productivity :)
<pschulz01> persia: There isn't a 'libfoo' package :-p
<persia> !foo
<ubotu> foo is bar
<imbrandon> ScottK, hahah welcome to the club :)
* StevenK makes a foo library that has one method, bar
<imbrandon> and always returns -1
<welshbyte> ScottK: congrats :)
<persia> pschulz01: No, but there are a lot of packages that are of the form lib<something>-dev, most of which would probably be a good example.  My apologies for the confusion.
<StevenK> Nah, it mallocs 4 bytes, and returns a char * to 'baz\0'
<pschulz01> persia: There should be a libfoo (aka. libhello)
<persia> StevenK: Please malloc() 8 bytes :)
<persia> pschulz01: StevenK is working on it :)
* StevenK is joking, as per usual.
<pschulz01> persia: Can you suggest a package? Small, c / GNU autoconf based?
<pschulz01> persia: libreadline?
<ranf> hello
<persia> pschulz01: I don't think libreadline is a small simple example.  I'll hunt one down.
<StevenK> persia: Bah, why return baz in UTF-8? :-P
<Dabian> Hi, what does it take to become MOTU?
<StevenK> Madness.
<StevenK> Oh wait, that isn't strictly necessary.
<imbrandon> it comes with it though
<imbrandon> Dabian, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU is a good place to start
<StevenK> == CreateCerts: reverted (-0.0005s) ===========================================
<StevenK> Yay, Rails!
<Dabian> Oh .. I need a sponsor?
<imbrandon> well for your first uploads yes
<Dabian> I only have one project right now.
<Dabian> The jde-package is somewhat broken, and I filed a bug-report with a description of the problem.
<Dabian> Wouldn't it be a logical place to start, to try and improve that package?
<imbrandon> sure
<Dabian> (I might need to add another package in order to fix it though, I am not sure)
<ScottK> imbrandon/welshbyte: Thanks.
<persia> pschulz01: libxml2 seems to use a dh_make style rules file and use .install files to sort the packages into which the files should go, but I'm not deeply familiar with that library, so I can't promise the packaging is perfect.
<sacater> im not so active with hardware, but could heat give me PCI hardware trouble
<sacater> i got that crazy syslog message again
<sacater> it says i have a hardware problem, likely on the PCI bus
<pschulz01> persia: Ta :-) I'm currently building readline5... but I'll try libxml2
<ScottK> StevenK: This reference seems relevant to your lib foo project - http://lwn.net/Articles/233660/
<ScottK> sacater: Heat can do weird things.  You aren't overclocking are you?
<welshbyte> do new motus get announced officially somewhere? i only learned that persia and ScottK were motus from this channel
<persia> welshbyte: On the motu-council mailing list
<StevenK> ScottK: Old news.
<welshbyte> ah ok, i only read the motu list
<ScottK> StevenK: The number is old news.  I thought the responses were humorous.  It just came off subscriber lock a few days ago.
<StevenK> Yeah, I read it over a week ago.
<StevenK> I have a subscription to LWN thanks to being a DD - DDs can get free subscription to LWN.
<sacater> ScottK: well my CPU is at 63'C
<sacater> ScottK: on my old laptop
<ScottK> Ahh.  Did not know that StevenK.
<Fujitsu> I read it weeks ago - on debian-devel
* ScottK marks down not to point LWN articles to StevenK...
<xxxxx1> morning!
<ScottK> Good morning.
<StevenK> ScottK: Hah. I could be mean and point you at them. :-P
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I got sick of debian-devel some time ago.
<Fujitsu> I have over 700 unread there, but I read parts of it.
<Fujitsu> I see that Soyuz is being its reliable self still.
<TheMuso> ScottK: COngratulations!
<ScottK> TheMuso: Thanks.
<ScottK> sacater: I wouldn't swear it's not heat, but I've never seen such a thing.
<sacater> ScottK: k, thanks anyway
<pochu> persia: is this line ok to test wx2.8?
<pochu> emilio:x:1000:1000:Emili Pzelo Monfort,,,,:/home/emilio:/bin/bash
<persia> pochu: In feisty, that would crash scorched3d immediately :)
<pochu> then it's fine :-)
<persia> pochu: Just make sure it's valid UTF8.  THe previous code works for some other encodings.
<persia> pochu: Great.  Thanks for testing.  Where can I find the package?
<pochu> persia: 2.8.4.0? Do you want the source or the debs?
<persia> pochu: tar.gz, .dsc, and .diff.gz :)
<pochu> I have to upload it, but first let's test it ;)
<persia> pochu: :)
* pochu starts scorched3d
<pochu> persia: the game looks good ;)
<persia> pochu: It depends on wxwidgets2.6, so it's not really a good test for wx2.8, but it is a good game.  I'll look for the package in about 6 hours?
<joejaxx> pochu: :P
<joejaxx> pochu: scorched earth is better
<pochu> :/
<persia> joejaxx: Does it work on Ubuntu AMD64?
* pochu waves! :)
* persia bows and scrapes
<pochu> persia: so is there any other thing I can use to test? :)
<persia> pochu: amule depends on wx2.8.
<pochu> yes, it does
<pochu> but it wasn't crashing with 2.8.3.0
<pochu> persia: amule starts and seems to work fine here.
<persia> pochu: That's OK.  2.8.4 is just an upstream request - not required for any bug fix.  I didn't see anything in the changelog that worried me.  Let's put it in the archive, and watch the bugs :)
<ScottK> persia: Would you please test the feisty-proposed package for your Bug #112140 and comment on the bug...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112140 in pythoncad "pythoncad fails to exit when all windows are closed" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112140
<Dabian> Is the first step to find a mentor?
<ScottK> Dabian: The way that worked for me was to dive in, go to work, and ask questions when you have them.  You are not required to have a dedicated mentor.
<persia> ScottK: Sure.
<Hobbsee> hey all!
<ScottK> Heya Hobbsee
<pochu> Hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> ScottK: congratulations :)
<TheMuso> Evening Hobbsee.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<Dabian> ScottK: I am very confused on how to get started ... I have a bugged package that I think I might be able to fix .. but in several ways and I'm not sure which way would suit ubuntu best.
<Hobbsee> :)
<ScottK> Dabian: What bug?
<Dabian> ScottK: I cant remember the number off hand .. lemme find it.
* ScottK will wait...
<StevenK> ScottK: Belated congratualtions, btw. :-)
<persia> Dabian: Alternately, if you would prefer a mentor, ask for one (either here, or based on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors)
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<jsgotangco> me too gotta crash
<ScottK> Good night.
<Dabian> persia: Would someone be able and willing to teach a debian-packager how to do things "the ubuntu way" ?
<ScottK> Dabian: If you are a Debian packager, you know about 98% of the Ubuntu way already.
<persia> Dabian: I would recommend reviewing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School (and other resources from MOTU/) to get a grounding.  You could also try contacting one of the Mentoring volunteers.
<ScottK> Dabian: I'll be glad to answer questions here if I'm around.
<Dabian> ScottK: Cool
<ScottK> Dabian: Did you find the bug?
<ScottK> Good morning leonel.  Thanks for testing the pythoncad fix.
<Dabian> ScottK: Not yet .. its in the universe .. I am not sure sure how to find the package.
<ScottK> What package?
<Dabian> ScottK: jd
<Dabian> argh
<Dabian> ScottK: jde
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Dabian: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jde
<ScottK> Dabian: Two open bugs against jde.  Which did you want to fix?
<Dabian> what I want to know is how UBUNTU-devels go harvesting debian apps and how a debian package maintainer  can help, how to get security fixes into ubuntu after UBUBTU has grabbed a package, etc
<Dabian> ScottK: Lemme check
<Dabian> ScottK: How did you find it?
<Dabian> 115527                    
<leonel> ScottK: your welcome   
* ScottK knows the URL scheme for launchpad source packages.  Also you could go to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ and search by package name.
<ScottK> Dabian: Another thing to know about here is the bot and bug numbers: bug 115527
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115527 in jde "Compile from menu fails if you don't use xemacs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115527
* imbrandon shutters
<StevenK> When did imbrandon get shutters installed?
<ScottK> Dabian: You have a proposed fix then that can be packaged?
<imbrandon> shudders
<imbrandon> some diff
<StevenK> imbrandon: Stop trying. :-P
<Dabian> ScottK: Well .. the problem is that the package assumes you're running xemacs 
<Dabian> ScottK: So what I did was installing xemacs-base-support, and create a few symlinks 
<Dabian> ScottK: That apparently fixes the problem.
<ScottK> OK.  So you could add xemacs-base-support as a dependency and then I guess do the symlinks in postinst?
<Dabian> ScottK: That sounds right
<ScottK> Dabian: Do you know how your would package this if it were Debian?
<Dabian> ScottK: I guess it might want to be a recommended package though
<Dabian> ScottK: I'm not a debian-developer unfortunately ...
<Dabian> ScottK: I've been through a basic course though.
<ScottK> No, but the question was about how much you know, not what your upload rights are...
<Dabian> ScottK: I remember lintian and linda .was used.
<ScottK> OK
* ScottK knows zip about Java.  The JDE is just needed for development, right?
<Dabian> ScottK: I also once repackaged jde for debian with a lot of help .. when I fixed another bug some years ago.
<ScottK> OK
<Dabian> ScottK: Yes .. its a "plugin" for Emacs .. makes you able to do all kinda smart things
<Dabian> ScottK: Like searching for classes, auto-adding imports, building your project etc.
<ScottK> Dabian: Is there a use case for KDE that does not require compiling?
<Dabian> ScottK: This bug only affects a subset of the things that jde can do .. but a subset that includes compiling from the menu etc.
<ScottK> KDE/JDE
<Dabian> JDE you mean?
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> OK, then I agree with recommends.
<Dabian> Well, it will syntax-hilight your code just fine
<Dabian> ... and you can add makefiles instead of using JDE to compile.
<Dabian> I think it would be best to require the package though ... in the sense that it its not obvious that you need to install it ...
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Anyone else that uses JDE around with an opinion?
<Dabian> Most people who develop in java don't know how to do proper makefiles for java, I guess, or prefer ant.
<Dabian> Also, the package xemacs-base-support isn't very big.
<imbrandon> man /that/ word keeps getting used
<ScottK> Dabian: OK.  Then you need to add the dependency to debian/control and your symlink changes to the postinst.  You will also need to change the maintainer to MOTU as described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField.  The version for your update will be 2.3.5.1-2ubuntu1.
<pgquiles> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> pgquiles: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Which word?
<imbrandon> xemacs
<pgquiles> TheMuso: one question about your review of libtomcrypt
<imbrandon> s/x//
<ScottK> Dabian: Did that mostly make sense or was it to much all at once?
<Dabian> ScottK: I'm trying to put your instructions in a text file to understand them. :)
<ScottK> OK.  Let me know when you have questions.  It was a lot all at once.
<Dabian> ScottK: I realise a problem though .. the symlinks will need to appear in different places according to the version of emacs you're running.
<Dabian> ScottK: and if you're running xemacs, you probably wont need them.
<ScottK> Dabian: Is there perhaps a separate lib package that is actually providing what's needed?
<Dabian> scottk: I only found the stuff in xemacs-base-support
<ScottK> OK
<Dabian> ScottK: I did use apt-file search
<ScottK> OK
* ScottK is looking at your symlinks
<Dabian> ScottK: They're aimed at emacs-snapshot
<ScottK> I got that.  Just trying to understand how it all relates...
<Dabian> ScottK: Maybe I could tell jde to always look where xemacs-base-support puts them .. but I would really prefer a seperate package.
<Dabian> ScottK: like jde-base-support
<ScottK> You are currently getting help from a vim using Python programmer, so this Emacs/Java stuff I have to study.
<Dabian> (Also I would need to study jde a bit to find out where to change where it looks).
<Dabian> ScottK: hehe ok :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: stolen fbi off you
<ScottK> Dabian: Looking at the JDE dependencies, it says it depends on emacs21.  If you have that installed and not snapshot, does it work?
<Dabian> ScottK: I doubt it
<Dabian> ScottK: Hmm .. it shouldn't depend on emacs21.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/336773/jde
<Dabian> I don't know why it depends on bsh, btw.
<Dabian> It doesn't use bsh if its installed .. it uses the bsh from xemacs-base-support
<Dabian> ScottK: Can it be that the packages are organised differently in debian than in ubuntu and this is the root cause of the bug?
<ScottK> Dabian: Looking at the version number, that package is a direct sync from Debian, so not in this case.
<Dabian> ok
<Dabian> I don't think "jde" ever worked perfectly in debian though.
<ScottK> Dabian: Packages where there is a difference from Debian have ubuntux in the version.
<Dabian> Ahhh :)
<ScottK> At this point, I'd suggest try it with emacs21 and see since that appears to be what the Debian maintainer intended to support.
<Dabian> OK
<Dabian> BRB
<Dabian> ScottK: I guess the way to go, is to uninstall xemacs-base-support, and install emacs21, and test if it works?
<Dabian> abck
<Dabian> nacl
<Dabian> back, even.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> That's what I was thinking
* ScottK is a big unsure how you have jde installed and not emacs21 in any case since it's a dependency...
<shawarma> ScottK: Maybe something provides emacs21?
<Dabian> Lemme check
<Dabian> apititude will reveal the truth.
<shawarma> jde depends on either emacs21 or emacsen.
<Dabian> ScottK: It doesn't depend on emacs21
<Dabian> ScottK: It depends on "emacs21 | emacsen" :)
<ScottK> Ahh.
<Dabian> ScottK: Apparently "emacs-snapshot" and "emacs-snapshot-gtk" provides "emacsen" :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> OK.  I guess lauchpad is incomplete.
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<pochu> Hello bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi ScottK, pochu
<ScottK> Dabian: Does is work with the actual emacsen or emacs21?  If it does, then it's a bug in emacs-snapshot-gtk I'd say.
<Dabian> ScottK: "emacsen" is pseudo ... its used to refer to which emacs you prefer.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Then I'd see if it works with emacs21.
<xxxxx1> bddebian!
<Dabian> ScottK: basicly there are two brances of emacs .. "GNU Emacs" and "XEmacs (or Lucid Emacs)"
<bddebian> Hello xxxxx1
<ScottK> OK
<Dabian> ScottK: The way to do that, is to uninstall the xemacs-base-support and install emacs21, right?
<ScottK> Dabian: I'd guess that's correct.
<Dabian> ScottK: OK .. hold on and I will try that. :)
<joejaxx> Hello All
<ScottK> Hello joejaxx
<Dabian> ScottK: As I predicted, emacs21 fails.
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<Dabian> It gives the followring error, when I try to compile:
<Dabian> bsh: Specified BeanShell jar filed does not exist: /usr/share/emacs21/site-lisp/java/lib/bsh.jar
<ScottK> Dabian: OK.  Not a great suprise, but I think it needed to be tested.  If emacs21 had worked, then it'd be a emacs-snapshot bug and not jde.
<Dabian> agreed
<ScottK> Dabian: I just confirmed the bug then.
<Dabian> ScottK: I guess the best sollution would be to transform "xemacs-base-support" into a package with a more general name, and let jde depend on it, and modify jde to look for the files where the new package places the files?
<Dabian> (Well, extract the subset of files that jde needs from xemacs-base-support)
<ScottK> Dabian: This is where you need someone who knows the packages better I think.  If xemacs is from a different fork of emacs, then it seems something like that would be in order.
<Dabian> xemacs is a different fork of emacs. :)
<Dabian> emacs21 and emacs-snapshot is the version of emacs currently supported by the GNU Project.
<ScottK> Generally, yes or find out which files are needed and double check GNU emacs doesn't provide them somewhere.
<Dabian> ScottK: The files seems very specific for jde.
<Dabian> ScottK: Maybe not all of xemacs-base-support ... but those that I symlink to.
<ScottK> Right.  
<Dabian> I have the feeling that the one who packaged jde and xemacs-base-support didn't use GNU Emacs, and maybe didn't program too much in java either.
<Dabian> There are still bugs even though you apply my sollution.  I still get an error .. but at least it works  :)
<ScottK> Dabian: One solution might be to break the xemacs-base-support into two binary packages and have the second provide the needed stuff for JDE.
<Dabian> Right
<ScottK> Dabian: Once you get a sane general solution worked out, I can help you package it, but won't be a lot of use with the specifics (as you no doubt have noticed by now).
<Dabian> Oh .. you're a great help
<Dabian> But I understand that you're not an expirienced emacs-user. :)
<Dabian> ScottK: I found a list in xemacs-base-support package on the files that is related to jde:
<Dabian> /usr/share/xemacs21/xemacs-packages/pkginfo/MANIFEST.jde
<Dabian> Thats basicly a list of files related to jde.
<ScottK> OK.  I am officially the least experienced MOTU here.  Even less the bddebian (he'll get the joke).  I think we need advice on how to proceed at this point.  Any Emacs using, Java programming MOTUs about?
<bddebian> Wow, that's like double evil :)
<leonel> does emacs uses  grub to boot ?  :)
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> No, I'm sure it has it's own boot loader ;-P
<leonel> hehe
<Dabian> bddebian: It does.   Porting it to grub sounds like an interesting project though. =)
<Dabian> I guess vi and c++ is very popular in here?
<Hobbsee> and python
<leonel> and me ..
<leonel> no not  me
<leonel> sorry ..
<Dabian> leonel: What do you use for an editor?
<bddebian> nano, what else is there? ;-P
<Hobbsee> ewww
<leonel> vim 
<xxxxx1> ed
* Hobbsee beats bddebian with an old, slimy trout
<xxxxx1> heh
<Dabian> leonel: And language?
<Dabian> xxxxx1: I like ed too :)
<leonel> python
* Hobbsee likes kate and vim.
* xxxxx1 kidding
<leonel> even  once  I've tried   programing  with :
<xxxxx1> vim rlz
<Dabian> Hobbsee: What do you use?
<leonel>   cat >  script.py 
<leonel> :)
<Hobbsee> Dabian: ?  kate and vim.
<Dabian> leonel: cat isn't very gracious as to fixing errors, but its useable to get started.
<leonel> jeje
<Dabian> Hobbsee: AHh .. I misread your action.
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: so.. who's Kate :P
<Hobbsee> Treenaks: the secretary :P
<Treenaks> Hobbsee: she must type _fast_ then :)
<Dabian> Hobbsee: I thought it was the editor, but maybe she has been replaced?
<Hobbsee> heh
<leonel> Dabian: even  a long time   i've used  Java  but droped  because it was not  free software  so now with openjdk  comming  I'll maybe take  it again  
<Dabian> leonel: I am very exited about that.
<Dabian> leonel: I was considering dropping java for the same reason.
<leonel> Dabian: yes it is great
<ScottK> Treenaks: Serious answer is Kate is the advanced text editor in KDE.  Very nice (I like it too).
<Treenaks> ScottK: I know :)
<Dabian> I used to hate emacs.   I couldn't figure out how to use it, so I sticked to vi.
<ScottK> Treenaks: OK.  
<Dabian> Now I know too, though. :)
<Dabian> I just knew that it was some editor.
<jussi01> afternoon peoples!
<bddebian> Hello jussi01
<jussi01> hello bddebian
<ScottK> bddebian: Do you want to take courier merging back?
<bddebian> ScottK: Possibly, but I'm swamped at work lately :(
* ScottK is a bit swamped too at the moment.
<ScottK> Now that I'm a MOTU, for merges, I attach the debdiff and subscrbe the archive, right?
<xxxxx1> ScottK: 8)
<shawarma> ScottK: I can't tell if you're kidding, but if not: No, you just upload it. Yay!
<bddebian> ScottK is an MOTU now?  Scary ;-P
<ScottK> bddebian: Yes.  As of today.
<bddebian> w00t, congrats
<lionel> congrats ScottK :)
<Dabian> ScottK: Creating a whole new ubuntu-package is probably not easy for me .. could I just apt-get source xemacs-base-support and remove the parts I don't like, change the path etc?
<ScottK> lionel: Thanks.
<Dabian> ScottK: Congratulations!
<ScottK> Dabian: THanks.  Change the name too.  Yes.  I'd think so.
<ScottK> Then upload it to REVU.
<ScottK> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<xxxxx1> !gutsy
<ubotu> Gutsy Gibbon is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (7.10). See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-April/000276.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule Support in #ubuntu+1
<jussi01> ScottK: congrats!!
<ScottK> jussi01: Thanks.
<ASCIIGirl> sorry is packages.ubuntu.com working?
<shawarma> ASCIIGirl: Probably not
<ASCIIGirl> aw :(
<ScottK> ASCIIGirl: You can probably find out what you were looking for through launchpad.
<ASCIIGirl> thx ScottK 
<ScottK> shawarma: Thanks.  It's a little different sitting on this side of the fence.
<jussi01> ScottK: you got a minute?
<ScottK> A minute
<jussi01> heh, can you take another look at mnemsyne for me? I still cant work out where im going wrong - please if you have time, test build and install it... it builds nicely, but install is wonky...
<jussi01> that would be mnemosyne even :D
* ScottK will try and look in the next hour or two.
<jikanter> hey, is there any way I can generate apport traces for myself without downloading all the debug symbol packages, as it slows down my (already slow) machine?
<jussi01> thanks a million ScottK
<ScottK> Does something have to be synced so that I can comment on other people's stuff in REVU?
<\sh> doko, do you plan to add the gnu "d" (gcd) compiler to the existent gcc toolchain for gutsy? 
<\sh> hmm.wrong channel ;)
<leonel> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<bddebian> ScottK: The keyring probably needs synced
<man-di> \sh: and he is offline today he said
<\sh> man-di, he'll catch up :)
<ScottK> bddebian: Thanks.  Anyone about who can resync REVU?
<bddebian> ScottK: That's the REVU admins
<jussi01> LaserJock: can do it...if he is around
<bddebian> or ajmitch
<shawarma> ScottK: Yeah. :) It's much easier on this side.
<ScottK> shawarma: Easier yes, but different and for at least today new for me...
<shawarma> ScottK: I found that the processes as a proper MOTU are easier to get the hang of than those of the "hopfuls".
<shawarma> hopefuls, even.
<ScottK> Well I think I'm ready to dput my first merge...
<jussi01> ScottK: nice!! :D
<nixternal> woohoo!
<nixternal> ScottK: do itttttt!!!!
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> May as well.  There's plenty of time to fix it if I mess it up....
<bddebian> heh
<nixternal> haha
<jussi01> lol
<siretart> ScottK: congrats!
<ScottK> siretart: Thanks.
<ScottK> OK.  That's one then...
<nixternal> ya congrats ScottK!
<ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.  When are you going to apply.  If they took me ...
<nixternal> probably sometime during this cycle
<nixternal> probably won't file an application until a sponsor says "damn, apply already"
* ScottK didn't apply until someone wondered where the application was.  I understand.
<ScottK> Cool.  Got my first accept from the archive.
<jussi01> nice
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> i got a lvm issue , anyone get a sec ?
<imbrandon> got*
<jussi01> imbrandon: I think your wanted over in #ubuntustudio-devel
<ScottK> jussi01: Run lintian on the .deb file and have a look at the warnings/errors.  
<jussi01> ScottK: ok
<pochu> ScottK: congrats! Now I have another possible sponsor ;)
<bddebian> heh
<ScottK> pochu: Thanks.
<jussi01> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21837/ i can fix 1 and 5, but 2,3 and 4???
* ScottK looks
<LaserJock> jussi01: are my revu admin services still needed?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<jussi01> even 2 and 3 are ok
<ScottK> LaserJock: It was me that needed it.  Let me check
<jussi01> ScottK: sorry 3 and 4, but 2...
<ScottK> LaserJock: I'm in the REVU team on LP now, but I still can't comment on other's uploads.  I gather REVU needs to be resynced.
<LaserJock> it's a manual process
<ScottK> jussi01: You are saying you need help with #2?
<ScottK> LaserJock: OK.  Can/Would you do said manual process then?  Who should I ping?
<LaserJock> ScottK: what's the email you use?
<ScottK> scott@kitterman.com
* ScottK can remember that.
<LaserJock> ScottK: done
<ScottK> LaserJock: Thanks.
<LaserJock> just reload and review away
<ScottK> LaserJock: Works.
<ScottK> jussi01: Are you there?
<jussi01> ScottK: sorry, had to take a dump...
<jussi01> ScottK: yes, number 2 is my issue...
<ScottK> OK.  You have another one too.
<jussi01> ScottK: ?
<ScottK> jussi01: If you unpack the .deb (I do this with ark) you will see that there is an empty /lib dir in your package.
<ScottK> jussi01: It looks to me like that's from the hard coded path in line 117 of setup.py
<jussi01> ah...
<jussi01> ouch, how would i go about fixing that?
<ScottK> Fix setup.py not to use a hard coded path into /lib.
<jussi01> ScottK: can you point me to a tutorial on patching then?
<jussi01> Im still unsure how patching works...
<jussi01> I assume i have to use a patch to fix it... I can just go in there an change stuff...
<ScottK> jussi01: If it's a small change, you can edit directly.  It'll be easier in the long run to patch it (otherwise you'll have to re-edit the file with every upstream update).
<ScottK> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources and look at cdbs with simple-patchsys.  WIth cdbs-edit-patch it's dead easy.
<jussi01> ScottK: ok, im interested to learn how to patch anyway because im sure Ill have to use it in the future
<jussi01> ScottK: cool
<ScottK> jussi01: Another option would be to switch to pysupport.
<ScottK> jussi01: See my additional comments on REVU
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks, Ill have a read.
<jussi01> ScottK: 
<jussi01> make: dh_pysupport: Command not found
<jussi01> make: *** [binary-install/mnemosyne]  Error 127
<jussi01> it gives me that error when i switch to pysupport, what am I missing?
<dholbach> jussi01: python-support build-depends?
<ScottK> jussi01: Yes
<ScottK> Also change the python system you are using in debian/rules
<jussi01> gah, now you make me feel stupid, 
<jussi01> ScottK: I did the second bit, but just forgot the vuild dep...
<jussi01> gah
<concept10> what is commonly used to package?  pbuilder or debhelper?
<jussi01> concept10: both
<concept10> jussi01, what is the choice based on?
<jussi01> concept10: they do different things
<dholbach> debhelper and pbuilder are not exclusive at all
<dholbach> one is used in the package build system (like common scripts you use in a Makefile), pbuilder test-builds the package in a chrooted environment
<concept10> well, I personally know of 4 ways to package .debs. Im trying to see what you guys standardize on.
<dholbach> pbuilder is not a way of packaging things
<jussi01> concept10: ^^ listen to him...
<dholbach> it's a tool to test build packages (once the source package is done)
<concept10> dholbach, okay, gotcha
<dholbach> right
<concept10> dholbach, so, which method do you commonly use?
<dholbach> I mostly use CDBS to package new packages
<dholbach> and test build packages in pbuilder
<jussi01> concept10: debhelper is still ok to use also - i used it on my last package
<dholbach> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
* dholbach calls it a day - see you tomorrow
<Treenaks> dholbach: *wave*
* dholbach waves back at Treenaks
* jussi01 hugs dholbach thanks so much, ive been looking for that doc for ages!!
<concept10> dholbach, thanks.
* dholbach hugs jussi01 back
<dholbach> anytime :)
<jussi01> brilliant, just brilliant... :D
<blueyed_> How can I find the missing -dbg/-dbgsym packages, if "bt" in gdb does not show up all stack frames?
<blueyed_> e.g. I want to find the files of the missing entries here: http://pastebin.ca/500598 (it's about beagle/mono)
<\sh> re
<tsmithe> man-di: you around?
<xxxxx1> why most pkgs are using Source-Version instead of source:Version ?
<geser> they have been updated yet
<mshima> Hello, I am trying to upload to revu. I've followed every step at MOTU wiki, but the package didn't showed up at revu site.
<geser> this feature is only available since dpkg 1.13.19 (or something like that)
<Simon80> mshima: did you wait 5 minutes?
<mshima> yes
<geser> have you requested a resync of the keyring?
<mshima> I sent it saturday
<mshima> by email
<Simon80> did you get a response?
<mshima> no
<Simon80> you'll probably have to wait for that
<highvoltage> is it true that Mom is evil? I've read some terrible, terrible things about it.
<Simon80> I got a response when I requested a resync
<mshima> ok
<mshima> the response was quick?
<bddebian> highvoltage: I heard that DaD is cheating on MoM ;-P
<Simon80> I really, really like cdbs, now that I just found out that buildcore handles config.{guess,sub} for you
<highvoltage> bddebian: that doesn't sound worse than http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4820131.html
<\sh> phew
<Simon80> I got a response the same day, actually
<\sh> at least umts works at our new place
<Simon80> I don't remember if I bugged someone in this channel though
<bddebian> highvoltage: Egads
<highvoltage> bddebian: egads?
<mshima> thanks simon
<bddebian> highvoltage: Like "yikes"
<Amaranth> elkbuntu: the latest RC of the radeon driver supports 3d acceleration for your 200m (if you have a new enough drm/kernel)
<Dabian> Do you guys know if ATI (AMD) really dropped the plans about blocking ("protecting") the framebuffer with DRM, and if they did, where I might get confirmation online?
<ScottK> nixternal: Interested in a merge that will stretch your MOTU hopeful legs?
<nixternal> ScottK: what's uP?
<ScottK> nixternal: courier is in need of a merge and it's an 'interesting' experience.  Thought you might want to give it a shot.
<nixternal> I can take a look at it
<ScottK> OK.  There's an open init related bug you might want to look at while you are at it.
<nixternal> k
* ScottK would be glad to help/answer questions as I did the last couple of merges.  I learned a lot from doing it.
* \sh doesn't like courier...
* ScottK doesn't use it, but the package is a bit of a mess, which is why merging it is a good learning experience IME.
<pochu> IME?
<ScottK> In My Experience
<pochu> yeah, I've learnt something new today :-)
<nixternal> ScottK: that bug should actually be against courier-authlib
<ScottK> nixternal: Thanks.  I'll go fix it then.
<xxxxx1> ScottK: in case of a .tar.bz2 upstream code
<ScottK> Yes
<xxxxx1> ScottK: is useful a get-orig-source to create .tar.gz ?
<joejaxx> keescook: how can i see security bugs related to a certain ubuntu release?
<ScottK> xxxxx1: I've not had to deal with a tar.bz2 source, so I'd just have to go look it up.  I remember that whichever Debian doc covers rules with orig.tar.gz discusses what to do with bz2 sources too.
<joejaxx> oh nevermind launchpad has them sort of labelled
<keescook> joejaxx: yeah, depends on what kind of detail you want.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<nixternal> courier building away, burning up cpu cycles
<nixternal> pbuilder-gutsy, not -feisty dangit!
<nixternal> ScottK: or other MOTUs for that matter -> Malone Bug 116050
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116050 in courier "[Gutsy MoM]  Please Merge Courier (0.53.3-6ubuntu1)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116050
* ScottK looks
<xxxxx1> hello LaserJock
<joejaxx> hello LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi xxxxx1 and joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
<Adri2000> DktrKranz: could you, in your sync requests, specify the debian component where to sync from? having the ubuntu component too is even better, but I'm not sure it's mandatory
<DktrKranz> Adri2000, do you mean {main,contrib,non-free} one?
<Adri2000> yes
<DktrKranz> I'll do
<Adri2000> thanks, do it for bug #116047, I'll ACK it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116047 in wordtrans "Please sync wordtrans 1.1pre14-5 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116047
<DktrKranz> thanks, I'll insert both from now on
<Q-FUNK> hm. I have a new host with a single NIC that insists on calling itself eth2, instead of eth0.  what could cause this and how do I fix it?
<_MMA_> Q-FUNK: Edit the iftab file?
<ScottK> Why do you care?
<_MMA_> OCD maybe? :)
<_MMA_> Certainly valid.
<DktrKranz> Adri2000: done, could you please check at bug #116047 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116047 in wordtrans "Please sync wordtrans 1.1pre14-5 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116047
<_MMA_> Q-FUNK: /etc/iftab might help.
<ScottK> nixternal: The debdiff does not apply.  Several of the hunks in the po files faile.
<nixternal> hrmm
<joejaxx> elkbuntu: oh i wanted to tell you the fluxbuntu logo has changed
<ScottK> Adri2000: Looking at the difference between the MoM and DaD proposed patches for courier might be instructive for you.  There are a number of places where DaD declares a conflict that MoM manages to work it out.
<ScottK> nixternal: I vaguely recall having to do something with the po files, but unfortunately I don't recall what.
<nixternal> let me take a quick look
<ScottK> nixternal: Of course given my long experience as a MOTU, I'm sure I didn't screw it up. ;-)
<nixternal> I am noticing something goofy between Debians version and the Ubuntu version with the debian/po dirs
<minghua> PO files are alwasy tricky
<nixternal> ya, they have yet to agree with me on the first go round
<minghua> sometimes upstream doesn't update their POT/PO files and the packager is in trouble
<Adri2000> DktrKranz: ACKed
<DktrKranz> Adri2000, thanks :)
<Adri2000> ScottK: argh, .po's...
<ScottK> nixternal: It was a clean Debian 0.53.3-6 that I tried to apply the patch to.
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> I debdiffed against 0.53.3-6.dsc
<ScottK> You would think that would work out...
<Adri2000> nixternal: .po changes in courier aren't actual ubuntu changes, you can clean the debdiff, so that it can be applied
<joejaxx> anyone seen popey?
<joejaxx> around lately*
<nixternal> can you explain "clean the debdiff" for me please?
<nixternal> that is a new term for me ;)
<dothebart> hy.
<Adri2000> nixternal: remove by hand all the .po changes
<nixternal> by clean, do you mean remove all po refs in it?
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> OK, I kind of thought that
<nixternal> OK, now say I did this from scratch, it would be the same as replacing the debian/po directory from the ubuntu*.dsc with the original one from the Debian package correct?
<ScottK> Adri2000: Can you fix DaD not to think those po file changes exist?
<Lutin> yes
<ScottK> Lutin: Great.
<Adri2000> Lutin: do you know *how* would we do that? :)
<Lutin> kinda
<ScottK> nixternal: I remember now.  I just edited them out of the patch.
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> Adri2000: filterdiff
<nixternal> ScottK: but you could just replace the po directories right, swap them..and then update the changelog noting the change? this way here int he future it will be documented for whoever else so they know to fix it?
<Kmos> Adri2000: change topic and remove UDS
<ScottK> nixternal: Makes sense.  Let's give it a shot.
<Adri2000> ajmitch: but sometimes .po changes are real changes, which we should keep...
<nixternal> I am doing it right now
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Adri2000] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Let's merge! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring
<Kmos> :-)
<Adri2000> Kmos: done, but everyone can change the topic here :)
<Kmos> yeah, don't have +t
<Kmos> :)
<dothebart> ScottK: willing to have another look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5180
<dothebart> ?
<ScottK> dothebart: I will look at it again, but probably not today as it's a complex package.
<dothebart> ok, tia!
<nixternal> ScottK: I updated bug 116050
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116050 in courier "[Gutsy MoM]  Please Merge Courier (0.53.3-6ubuntu1)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116050
* ScottK looks
<nixternal> OK
<nixternal> now wait a second
<nixternal> I look at the new debdiff and there are still po changes after copying them from Debian
<nixternal> it is smaller than the previous, but still has po changes
<Adri2000> nixternal: these changes are generated during the source package build
<Adri2000> probably because of: "- added build depends for po-debconf"
<nixternal> hrmm, it could be
<ScottK> Still fails to apply, BTW.
<nixternal> ya, I kind of figured that
<nixternal> OK...let me do it the manual way then...argh ;)
<ScottK> nixternal: I'll be AFK for a bit.  I'll look again when I get back.
<nixternal> OK..I will test it here first before I ship you the debdiff
<Adri2000> nixternal: you shouldn't paste the signed .changes in the bug report. since you are not a motu for the moment, it's not a big issue, but when you are a motu, if you put a source package with its signed .changes somewhere, anyone can take it and upload it with your name and your signature on it
<nixternal> I was told by others to do it that way, that is why I do it
<Adri2000> they told you to paste the *signed* file?
<nixternal> Adri2000: yes
<minghua> po-debconf should only touch stuff in debian/, mostly debian/po/
<minghua> the po/*.po and debian/po/*.po shoudl be completely independent
<minghua> nixternal: Adri2000 is right, never put a signed .changes anywhere public
<shawarma> minghua: Wny not?
<nixternal> ya, I want to know as well? the MOTU gods taught me that last year, unless something has changed since then
<shawarma> Adri2000: ^^
<nixternal> I don't have dput rights...so I can't do any evil..and if there is a MOTU who uses it to do evil, it is on them :)
<nixternal> isn't like they can hide who uploaded it (dput)
<ajmitch> nixternal: yes, it'll show as coming from you
<shawarma> Everyone has dput rights. It's anonymous ftp upload. The signature on the changes file is what matters, actually.
<nixternal> ajmitch: yes, but it also shows who uploaded it
<ajmitch> as shawarma said..
<shawarma> I still don't really see the problem in having a a signed .changes file lying around in a public place?
<ajmitch> your name would be in the .changes file & on the signature, which would get ignored by anyone except revu
<nixternal> OK, maybe it doesn't..I thought it did
<shawarma> The signed .changes file gets sent to a public mailing lists anyhow?
<Adri2000> shawarma: yes, but only once the package is uploaded, and once it is uploaded, you can still try to re-upload it with the signed .changes available on the ml, it will always get rejected because of the version
<shawarma> Adri2000: Yes..
<Adri2000> if the package hasn't been uploaded, and you put it somewhere with its signed .changes, anyone will be able to upload it, even if it was not mean to be uploaded
<Adri2000> anyone = even a non-motu
<shawarma> Adri2000: If I sign the .changes file, it's because I want to upload it. If someone wants to do it for me... Hey, it's their bandwidth!
<Adri2000> and the upload will be signed by you...
<nixternal> lol shawarma 
<shawarma> Adri2000: The .changes file contains checksums for the other files. It's not like someone can upload bad things in my name.
<shawarma> nixternal: :)
<Adri2000> of course, but if you ignore that, you may put somewhere a package which is not yet ready, and if there is the signed .changes, it's dangerous
<shawarma> Sure, but to go from that to a "putting signed .changes in public places is evil" policy is a bit of a stretch IMO.
<Adri2000> that's why you get a 403 forbidden on all the .changes file on REVU. so that a motu can upload to revu without being afraid that someone will upload a half-done package with his name on it
<Adri2000> files*
<shawarma> Yes, I suppose that makes some sense.
<minghua> I don't have much to add to what Adri2000 already said
<minghua> I think the point is you should only sign .changes when you really do an upload
<minghua> you should always sign your .dsc though
<gnomefreak> .changes and .dsc no?
<gnomefreak> ah ok
<Adri2000> both if you are going to upload. only .dsc if you are going to give the package to someone (so that he can't upload it, but he can be sure it comes from you)
<nixternal> ScottK: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7731444/courier.debdiff
* ScottK looks (carefully, from behind some sand bags) at the courier diff...
<welshbyte> when's the next motu meeting?
<crimsun> has it been decided?
<crimsun> (just reattached, haven't read backscroll or email)
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> noone wants to propose a time
<welshbyte> crimsun: i don't know, i assumed meetings were a regular thing 
<ajmitch> welshbyte: they are meant to be
<ajmitch> should I just throw out a time on the mailing list?
<welshbyte> but i guess if there's nothing to talk about, there's nothing to talk about :)
<crimsun> yes.  Let's start with this Wed, Thurs, or Fri.
<ScottK> nixternal: Where did the change in rfc2045/reformime.1 come from (patch fails to apply on that hunk BTW)?
<ajmitch> oh, people have still to complain about
<ScottK> Gotta run.  Be back later.  Told you courier was instructive....
<geser> pick a time which fits you best as nobody has made an other proposal (yet) :)
<gnomefreak> when a package say has build-dep libxxx without a version in control it uses the version installed shlibs defines that right?
<nixternal> ScottK: it has always been there
<nixternal> ScottK: you know what..it is LP breaking the debdiff
<ScottK> nixternal: I'd guess it did.  That's the only hunk that fails.  Why is it in the debdiff at all?  There's no changelog entry to support it?
<nixternal> -Hla!
<nixternal> +H\['o] la!
<nixternal> that is what it is supposed to be
<nixternal> I think that is created because if you cat the file it gives you the funky ? character
<nixternal> hrmm
<gnomefreak> checking again for Mozilla nspr4 includes in /usr/include/mozilla/nspr... no   assuming this means it cant find the libnspr-dev package?
<nixternal> once again...the Ubuntu file is different than the Debian one...I wonder if it has to do with the funky character
<nixternal> it is the Ubuntu patch from MoM that is hosing it
<crimsun> gnomefreak: it should be libnspr4-dev
<crimsun> gnomefreak: (I presume you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-May/023618.html ...)
<jmg_> hey all
<jmg_> what is that cool tool for determining what a binary's dependencies are?
<crimsun> apt-cache depends is an easy but imprecise method
<crimsun> objdump is the harder but precise method
<jmg_> crimsun: not using the package manager
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-22
<jmg_> crimsun: thanks
<gnomefreak> crimsun: this is for dapper
<gnomefreak> dapper used libnspr-dev afaik
<crimsun> gnomefreak: what does the config.log show you?
<gnomefreak> the error part?
<crimsun> sure
<ajmitch> what does the m4 code check for?
<gnomefreak> checking again for Mozilla nspr4 includes in /usr/include/mozilla/nspr... no
<gnomefreak> configure: error: --with-nspr-includes was specified, but nspr.h and prio.h were not there.
<minghua> gnomefreak: in any case, I think a package build depending on a libxxx package is wrong, it should build depend on libxxx-dev
<gnomefreak> minghua: thats what i meant sorry
<crimsun> gnomefreak: as ajmitch mentioned, look at what the m4 bits check for.  You can see that in configure.
<crimsun> gnomefreak: and config.log is more verbose than what you pasted.  Hopefully.
<gnomefreak> im looking but m4 wasnt a build-dep
<minghua> gnomefreak: then I don't understand you comment about using the version in shlib
<nixternal> AHHHH I GOT IT!
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ill pastebin the config.log i dont see m4
<nixternal> stupid diff and debdiff can't read chars worth a poo
<gnomefreak> minghua: if libnspr-dev is used as build-dep without a version it uses the version installed?
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ajmitch http://gnomefreak.pastebin.ca/501180
<minghua> gnomefreak: it should use whatever currently is in the archive/build environment
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: m4 isn't a dependency, but that's how configure is built 
<ajmitch> it's a bit easier to read than the several hundred KB of resulting shell script
<gnomefreak> firefox and tb adn so on all have m4 as a build-dep so i wasnt sure 
<minghua> gnomefreak: and if libnspr-dev is installed in the build environment, then yes, it will use that
<gnomefreak> and its not :(
<ajmitch> so what does libnspr-dev supply?
<gnomefreak> the 2 files it states it cant find
<gnomefreak> + more
* ajmitch isn't entirely understanding your problem
<minghua> "--with-nspr-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nspr" in the invocation of configure
<ajmitch> you say that the package (libnspr-dev) is definitely installed where you are building?
<minghua> is that where libnspr-dev installs stuff?
<crimsun> minghua just pointed out the problem.
<crimsun> you're providing the wrong path.
<gnomefreak> i didnt give a path
<crimsun> are you build-depending on mozilla-dev or firefox-dev?
<gnomefreak> firefox
<gnomefreak> backporting ffox2.0
<gnomefreak> well testing them atm
<crimsun> usr/include/firefox/nspr/prio.h    libdevel/libnspr-dev
<crimsun> note the explicit change.
<gnomefreak> --with-nss-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nss \ --with-nspr-includes=/usr/include/mozilla/nspr \  should be firefox instead of mozilla?
<crimsun> correct, according to packages.ubuntu.com for dapper.
* gnomefreak wonders in that case how it built like it is
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: back to normal time now? :)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sorta
<gnomefreak> i shouldnt need to rebuild orig.tar on a rules file chage right?
<ajmitch> definitely not
<gnomefreak> sweet :)
<ajmitch> orig.tar.gz should only be rebuilt if absolutely necessary
<nixternal> ScottK: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7732080/courier.debdiff   <- The YAY!!! Edition
<gnomefreak> looks like it worked :) thank you guys
<welshbyte> now there's one MS's marketing dept missed - "The YAY!!! Starts Today"
<welshbyte> catchy :)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> hrmm, it is catchy
<nixternal> let me patent that really quick
<welshbyte> :)
<nixternal> the yay is a series of ....
<nixternal> that is all I need
<crimsun> sorry, prior art by multiple 12 yr-old girls.
<nixternal> I received the latest Information Week today, and they have a gun to tux'es head saying "Play by our rules or the penguin gets it"
<nixternal> there are a couple of great lines in the article though
<ajmitch> crimsun: as they catch the first glimpse of the pony in the backyard?
<crimsun> ajmitch: =)
<nixternal> "Windows itself gets tied up in litigation, stalling releases for years. Meantime, ipen source apps...pile up innovation after innovation and pick off customers."
<nixternal> "After years of litigation, the Windows franchise, which had looked invincible, is weakened, open source code gains ground, and Microsoft's patent bluff has been called."
<jmg_> I'm trying to educate a vendor (scalix) about the importance of correctly checking dependencies
<jmg_> is there a packaging guide that walks through the steps of determining dependencies?
<Hobbsee> jmg_: not apart from general knowledge, and a pbuilder, i believe
<Hobbsee> ie, keep working in a pbuilder until it fails
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Until it succeeds, you mean?
<persia> jmg_: If it's a C package, you can often look in configure or Makefile (or the files that create them) to discover what libraries the builds want.  Using this list as Build-Depends is a good start.
<Fujitsu> (morning)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er, yes
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: and good morning
<TheMuso> Morning folks.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
* Fujitsu thinks somebody has been doing strange stuff with LP milestoning. the bug about it being non-free is targeted for June, which really doesn't sound right.
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso.
<crimsun> from devel scrollback, I am frightened.
<crimsun> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=450251
<crimsun> checkinstall is the WORST place to start.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: that hte crack package manager?
<Hobbsee> heh
<Fujitsu> Oh yes, saw that.
<Fujitsu> I think everybody did a good job of ignoring it, and it went away... to the forums :(
<TheMuso> /c
<TheMuso> ugh
<zul___> crimsun: it could be worse
* gnomefreak wonders why the /c pinged me 
<TheMuso> gnomefreak: thats weird
<zul___> crimsun: *cough* ebuild *cough*
<gnomefreak> it was
<minghua> well, checkinstall is usually a very welcomed thing in user forums
<crimsun> arguably "we" should make it so that checkinstall is unnecessary
<crimsun> (unrealistic, but we can dream)
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure how we'd do that.
<minghua> dream, yes
<persia> Fujitsu: We'd instantly package every piece of software written, as it's written, without fail :)
<Fujitsu> Sure, as well as maintaining the rest.
* Hobbsee goes around destroying evil photos.
* Fujitsu rescues them.
<Hobbsee> you cant.
<Fujitsu> You can
<Fujitsu> *can't destroy them!
<Hobbsee> sure i can!
<crimsun> good thing we have copies!
<ScottK> nixternal: Looking at it now.
<ScottK> Hello leonel.
<persia> Does anyone use sbuild/schroot/LVM?  If so, could they confirm bug 116091 (or is it just me?).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116091 in sbuild "sbuild with schroot and LVM fails to clean up properly" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116091
<leonel> hey ScottK  
<leonel> just returning  
<nixternal> ScottK: courier gave me a workout I needed....I am going to be cautious with diff and debdiff when it comes to funky chars
<ScottK> nixternal: Yes, as I said, educational.  Patch applied this time.  I'm about to build it.
* Hobbsee concludes that this might just build.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: / ajmitch: / ScottK: / persia: what times this Wed, Thurs, and Fri are suitable?
<crimsun> [for an MOTU meeting] 
<Hobbsee> in UTC timezone, presumably?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, please.
<Hobbsee> um...
<persia> I prefer 22:00 - 02:00 or 13:00 - 17:00 UTC
<Fujitsu> Yay, LP internal server error.
<Hobbsee> my thursday is shocking, which i think is your wednesday/thursday
<crimsun> I'm pretty flexible this week, so whenever y'all are good.
* Hobbsee checks when 1300 UTC is in local time
<persia> Hobbsee: late evening
<Fujitsu> persia: I tried to set it up, but couldn't get it to do much. I had to manually tell it to remove the snapshots after a reboot.
<Hobbsee> 11pm
<TheMuso> Friday from about 6:00UTC onwards is not good for me.
<persia> Fujitsu: For every package?  I only have to do that as described in the bug.
<TheMuso> Sorry, 7:00UTC
* Hobbsee ponders my wednesday at 11pm, ie 1300 UTC
<Hobbsee> which i believe is still wednesday for eveyone else
<Fujitsu> persia: My setup is completely broken, so it's unlikely to be the same.
* persia likes wednesday 13:00 UTC
<Hobbsee> that is still wednesday UTC time, isnt it?
<Fujitsu> That's even good for me. Wow.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yes.
<Hobbsee> good
<Hobbsee> crimsun: ^ is the consensus
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  If you paste your errors somewhere, I'd be happy to help you track it down :)
<Hobbsee> i couldnt guarentee to be home by that point on thursday
<ScottK> crimsun: I would definitely be availalble Wed 12 - 1400  and 1500 - 2130 UTC and Thu/Fri 1200 - 2130 UTC.
<Hobbsee> actually, i should be able to.  it shouldnt all go to hell tha tmuch
<Fujitsu> I think it's probably partly because my home directory isn't in fstab; it's LUKSed and mounted manually when I log in. It seems to get a bit confused.
<persia> ajmitch: Is that too late for you?
<leonel> <Hobbsee> my thursday is shocking, which i think is your wednesday/thursday  <-- Just  courious   Where are you ??
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  That would do it.
<Fujitsu> persia: It'll be 1am for him.
<Hobbsee> leonel: sydney, australia
<leonel> Hobbsee: ok I see
<persia> Fujitsu: It's still summer time in NZ?
<Fujitsu> I don't think so.
<LaserJock> sweet, 1300UTC is 6:00am for me :-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: We should probably make it a little earlier, then. You need to get a taste of what we have to put up with!
<LaserJock> hehe
* persia thinks 12:00 could work
<LaserJock> I made a few 4:00am LP meetings
<Hobbsee> urgh
* ajmitch doesn't know if he should bother trying to attend or not
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yes you should
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> no reason for me to do so
<LaserJock> I think everything should be 03:00UTC :-)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Attend.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: 1pm. Not too bad.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: why?
<LaserJock> because it helps when people show up
<LaserJock> especially people who's opinion we value
<LaserJock> such as yourself
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: What LaserJock said.
<ajmitch> my opinion is not particularly useful at that time of night
<Hobbsee> heh
<Fujitsu> Anybody got any points for the agenda?
<persia> ajmitch: Propose a different time - when is good for you?
<joejaxx> are non-motus allowed to attend?
<persia> Fujitsu: I need to check my list, but if it's at such a convenient time, I'd like to cover mentoring and UUS workflow.
<TheMuso> joejaxx: Of course.
<ajmitch> persia: any time I suggest will be very inconvenient to others - I've made it to previous MOTU meetings, so it's other peoples' turns
<chillywilly> hi
<LaserJock> joejaxx: it's highly recommended that MOTU Hopefuls and people interested in MOTU attend
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> ok, agenda ...
<LaserJock> did we decide on REVU cleanup?
<TheMuso> autosync?
<ScottK> I'd like clamav on the agenda.  I'll write mail to the motu list on the matter,
<LaserJock> I think we could at least go over autosync
<LaserJock> although it sounds like it might be a no-go
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What makes you think that?
<LaserJock> I wonder if it can even be implemented
<ajmitch> persia: more convenient for me would be 1100UTC, or 1200UTC if really necessary
<LaserJock> that would probably work for people other than US time zones
<ajmitch> exactly
<persia> ajmitch: Either works for me.  ScottK sait 12:00 worked earlier.  LaserJock?
<Hobbsee> in that case, day bump --> friday?
<LaserJock> well, who cares about us Americans ;-)
<Hobbsee> seeing as i'm out on wednesday night, and cant sneak off early, as i'm not the driver
<Hobbsee> hehe
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ;)
* ajmitch will probably still not show up :)
<Fujitsu> I can possibly make that, though I might be a few minutes late.
<LaserJock> everybody knows it's the Germans and Aussies that rule around here ;-)
<Hobbsee> of course.
<crimsun> joejaxx: / LaserJock: / ScottK: / geser: / persia: is 1100 UTC this Friday feasible?
<ajmitch> so making a decision on time without input from any europeans isn't so great, but oh well
<joejaxx> crimsun: sounds good
<persia> crimsun: I should be able to make that.
<crimsun> hey, I did include Michael...
* TheMuso can't do friday night my time
<shawarma> I actually think I can make it for once.
<shawarma> If anyone cares.
<shawarma> :)
<ajmitch> shawarma: of course we care
<crimsun> shawarma: which time & date?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: from when, local?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: 5pm
<shawarma> Ah, just say the 1100 UTC friday thing.
<shawarma> that's the only suggestion I noticed..
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: all night?  damn.
<crimsun> TheMuso has a hot date with espeak. :-)
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well I'm going out, so will probably be returning late, and won't feel like sitting in front of the computer.
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> ooo!
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: fair enough
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh.  SLUG.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Nope.
* Hobbsee thought that must be coming up again...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Going to see a performance up here at Katoomba.
<shawarma> 1100 or 1200 are both fine for me.
<Hobbsee> ooh :)
<ScottK> crimsun: No.  That's right when I"m in the middle of getting my kids out the door to school.  1145 UTC is the earliest.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: It is, but I'm not going this month.
* StevenK pokes his head in.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<ScottK> 1200UTC is better
<crimsun> shawarma: / ajmitch: / geser: ok, 1200 UTC this Friday still feasible?
<StevenK> However, 1200UTC is 2am for us stuck in .au
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Uh, no... 10pm.
<TheMuso> crimsun: heh. If I'm doing anything with espeak, its feeling like throwing the builds out the door. Powerpc and amd64 of espeak decided to fail, because dpatch wants to have a fit. I can build espeak here fine however.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: uh, no it's not?
<shawarma> crimsun: Sure.
<persia> StevenK: Are you sure?  Should be 19:00 - 22:00, depending on where you are.
<StevenK> Right, I'm counting the wrong blanking way.
<TheMuso> How many bloody pacages must I touch that fail on the bloody builds, yet work fine here!!?? :S
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: ALL of them.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: the buildds are dying.  or were.  
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: what was teh buildlog?
<Fujitsu> persia: Where are you?
<shawarma> For me anything >=1100 works.
<persia> Fujitsu: Tokyo
<Hobbsee> StevenK: use kclock.  it's on your kicker.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: hang on a sec.
<joejaxx> persia: nice
<crimsun> Hobbsee: you really like to rub it in, eh? ;)
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
<ajmitch> crimsun: barely so, but I'm the only kiwi here :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I have, but it doesn't help me see times in the future.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: http://librarian.launchpad.net/7726876/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-powerpc.espeak_1.25-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* ScottK could do 1000 UTC (I'd just get up earlier on Friday.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it gives you current UTC, which you can use to calculate
<Hobbsee> crimsun: of course.  it's useful
<crimsun> :-)
<TheMuso> Same hapens for amd64.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Yeah, dpatch is b0rken.
<TheMuso> Yet sparc and i386 built fine.
<TheMuso> great!!
* Fujitsu can do anything from about 0600-1400UTC on Fridays.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: have you asked infinity/an archive admin about that?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Not yet.
<TheMuso> Mostly asleep they are.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's 0600 local?
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> It's dpatch, not a buildd specific thing?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: 4pm.
<TheMuso> But dpatch works fine here...
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know.
<shawarma> StevenK: It's dpatch on the buildd's, apparantly.
<Fujitsu> The buildds are strange creatures, they can fail in strange places.
<crimsun> hopefully 1200 UTC is feasible for some EU folks
<shawarma> StevenK: dholbach was having problems earlier.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah right.  so i'm >0800 - 1500 UTC on friday
* TheMuso thinks the builds need to be reworked.
<persia> crimsun: Lunchtime, maybe?
<StevenK> What's wrong with the buildds?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: They keep doing stupid stuff.
<LaserJock> they are probably dist-upgraded from potatoe ;-)
<StevenK> Debian potato doesn't have an e.
<LaserJock> or was that potato
<shawarma> Oh, the horror!
<Fujitsu> s/e//
<persia> LaserJock: They're not *that* old!  woody, maybe.
<crimsun> ok, do we have a rough consensus on 1200 UTC this Friday for the next MOTU meeting?
<Fujitsu> That's good with me.
<shawarma> +1
<ScottK> +1 from me
<persia> Sure
<StevenK> crimsun: Sounds fine to me too.
<TheMuso> Have fun guys.
<joejaxx> +1
<Fujitsu> Well, that's 6 attending so far. Impressive!
* StevenK sets a reminder
<LaserJock> I'm +0 as it'll be 5:00 am for me but I wasn't really thinking I could attend
<persia> LaserJock: +0 or -1?
<LaserJock> +0
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> grr
<LaserJock> not -0 because I think it's a good time
<crimsun> strong tea or coffee.
<joejaxx> anyone know what times popey is usually on?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: +1
* persia edits the agenda
<crimsun> joejaxx: he was active in -doc around 0400 UTC
<joejaxx> hmm
* ScottK had forgotten how long it takes to build courier...
<crimsun> sorry, 0500 UTC.
<joejaxx> crimsun: thanks
<Hobbsee> ScottK: fast machine.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: is there anyway we can talk about the statistics?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you could try using brandons, but i am building kdelibs on it too
* joejaxx does not know how the agenda additions work
<shawarma> joejaxx: He's in the UK, so UTC+1.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hah. My machine is quicker.
* ScottK had forgotten I had that option now.  Need to loot into that.  Thanks Hobbsee.
<joejaxx> shawarma: ah ok
<LaserJock> joejaxx: as far as what we'd like from you? :-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> sure add it to the agenda
<ScottK> My build stuff and I don't care if it breaks machine is a P-III 700 w/256MB of RAM.  Building stuff of any size is slow.
<joejaxx> oh no not the netsplits :\
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ssh <lp id>@aurora.ubuntuwire.com for amd64/i386, or @sparky.ubuntuwire.com for sparc
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: I don't think we want the statistics. They'll be too depressing.
<StevenK> ScottK: That's ... slow. My fileserver is quicker than that.
<ajmitch> ScottK: worked through u-u-s yet?
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings the right page for the agenda?
<joejaxx> it says April 26th
<persia> joejaxx: That's the right page.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<joejaxx> persia: ok
<crimsun> joejaxx: right, persia has the lock on that page, so I'm refraining from editing.
<persia> crimsun: I'm done
<ScottK> ajmitch: I looked at it.  Didn't find anything left I was immediately comfortable with tackling.  I'll have more time tomorrow and look again.
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Actually aurora isn't amd64, it's only i386.
<StevenK> (lm isn't in the CPU flags)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Looks like I haven't been added yet.  Will try again later I guess.
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure how often that script runs, or if it even works any more (it was written by me, so is probably b0rked)
<persia> ScottK: The keys take a couple days to sync.  Ping im,brandon if you need access sooner.
<crimsun> ok, MOTUMenuHeader & MOTU/Meetings updated; drafting email to -motu and -devel-discuss
<ScottK> StevenK: It's my laptop (It's ancient, but generally good enough for things I need a laptop for).  I just keep a spare HD and HD carrier so I can swap the known good drive back in and get real work done if needed.
<ajmitch> crimsun: thanks
<StevenK> ScottK: Ah.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  No rush.
<ajmitch> sounds like someone needs to donate some hardware
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> time to hit up Mark for some "Let's make Universe rock" funds? ;-)
<Fujitsu> Is anybody adding the autosync extension item, or shall I?
<StevenK> And do what? Donate 3GHz amd64's to every MOTU?
<persia> LaserJock: To add ia64 & amd64 to ubuntuwire (and a faster sparc)?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: autosync?
<crimsun> nixternal: can you add the MOTU meeting time to fridge?
<StevenK> persia: A slightly faster sparc is waiting to be racked up.
<nixternal> I sure can
<ajmitch> StevenK: sounds good to me
* persia smiles in anticipation
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Yes, getting the autosync for universe extended, and working out the issues that come with it.
<crimsun> nixternal: (this Friday, May 25th, 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting/Freenode)
<nixternal> agenda link?
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ah ok
<Fujitsu> nixternal: MOTU/Meetings
<nixternal> thanks
<ajmitch> nixternal: drinking & general merriment
<persia> Fujitsu: Do we want to do that for everything?  Perhaps just parse to not collect new upstream versions?
<Fujitsu> persia: The consensus was the we extend it until at least UVF.
<Fujitsu> *that
<LaserJock> persia: no, a new laptop for every MOTU :-)
<joejaxx> oh
<Fujitsu> If we just do it to UVF, that checking isn't necessary.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah, yes.  Anything prior to UVF sounds good to me.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: what about lintian?
<nixternal> crimsun: posted
<joejaxx> and having lintian reports generated
<persia> LaserJock: We'd end up with ClassmatePCs :)
<LaserJock> doh
<StevenK> Lintian seems pretty crap for us.
<StevenK> Linda seems to be slightly better.
<joejaxx> so when the lp buildd build we can get reports
<Fujitsu> StevenK: You're a bit biased, surely?
<joejaxx> StevenK: well lintian was just an example
<persia> StevenK: You could always patch lintian :)
<joejaxx> we could have linda
<StevenK> persia: Which tool did I write? :-P
<ajmitch> depends if we can trust linda's author to be sane
<Hobbsee> we cant.
* persia hides in shame
<ajmitch> that's what I was worried about
<LaserJock> burn 'em!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Maybe a little. In this case, Lintian keeps giving spurious changelog warnings.
<joejaxx> :P
<Fujitsu> I really think LP should be doing more of this stuff :(
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Linda doesn't? I must admit I generally use lintian.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: well the linda/lintian issue would be done by the lp buildds
* StevenK raises an eyebrow.
<StevenK> Thanks for the vote of confidence.
<joejaxx> i am assuming that is
<joejaxx> unless someone wants to run lintian/linda after the fact on the archive
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: Hah, how do you expect that something to our benefit like that would get into LP?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bitter, much?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ppa's exist, remember...
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: now now, no need to get all cynical ;-)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you've seen how Fujitsu is on the forums... you know he's bitter
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not yet, and that's not entirely beneficial.
<Hobbsee> hha
* Fujitsu hides.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: i do not know we could almost ask
<Hobbsee> the forums have *made* him bitter
<joejaxx> bah
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: they do exist.  we saw it at UDS
<joejaxx> s/almost/always/g
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, he was bitter before that
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah! How do they look?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: PPA is nice
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: it is really nice
<joejaxx> they way they are/have them setup
<joejaxx> the*
<LaserJock> all I've seen is it looks like PPA is slated for LP 1.1.5
<Fujitsu> But I have issues with PPA. It makes it that much easier for people to make unofficial repos.
* joejaxx cannot type today
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: nice.  but i'm not sure where the documentation on them is
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: we saw them on the last day
<LaserJock> or was that 1.5
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's what I mentioned in here yesterday... It's due in 2 days.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i forget what build it is for
<LaserJock> I saw a bunch of PPA LP bugs get retargeted the other day
<Fujitsu> But the bug about LP not being free is targeted for 1.1.6 (June 21st), so I don't think those milestones are meaningful.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: would lin{da,tian} be a topic for the agenda or would that be outside of motu
<LaserJock> and I know they have a working PPA, it's a matter of when they'll release it
<ajmitch> interesting to see these random version numbers
<persia> joejaxx: Consensus can be built in the meeting, but someone would need to chase the LP team to do anything.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: 1.1, then the month number.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not for awhile yet, there's UI lacking
<joejaxx> persia: ok then i will add it to the agenda then
<ajmitch> anyway, I'm off for lunch, see you all later :)
<LaserJock> if only there was somebody to chase up the LP team ...
<Fujitsu> Bye, ajmitch.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Isn't that your task?
<persia> LaserJock: Someone might volunteer in the meeting, especially if they've put it on the agenda :)
* LaserJock whistles innocently in the corner ;-)
* joejaxx wonders who put it on the agenda :O
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Has anything come of you chasing them yet?
<crimsun> emailed posted to -motu and -devel-discuss.
<crimsun> email, even.
* Hobbsee is striped
* Hobbsee can come to the meeting.  yay!
<joejaxx> nice
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, smallish things
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: A bit risky...
<crimsun> nixternal: thanks!
<nixternal> no problem
<Hobbsee> Everyone, young and old, striped and solid, is invited to attend the
<Hobbsee> next MOTU[0]  meeting this Friday, May 25th, 12:00 UTC
<persia> agendum?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heard anything about the XML-RPC timeline yet?
<minghua> sigular form of agenda, I believe
<LaserJock> they said when 1.0 was done that would be a top priority
<leonel> will there be  Pizza ?
<joejaxx> it will come by personal carrier and converter into 1's and 0's for everyone at the meeting
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> converted*
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: So they say... But 1.0 was done a while ago now, and XML-RPC hasn't been touched/targetted that I can see.
<LaserJock> well, I also had a bit of a time trying to convince them that XML-RPC needed work
<Fujitsu> They were convinced that the web UI was adequate?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes
<fernando> hi all
<LaserJock> they thought it very surprising to that we'd ever use CLI web browsers with LP
<LaserJock> mass/large-scale work is not really that great with LP
<LaserJock> and the LP devs are so busy with general stuff I'm not sure how fast the situation will change
<StevenK> As in, "I thought we fixed it so it doesn't work."
<Fujitsu> Gah, I need to leave now,
<LaserJock> I think they want to help us out, for sure
<Fujitsu> But it's not their priority.
<LaserJock> but there is just so much going on in LP that it's hard to get everything
<Fujitsu> Which is reasonable, I guess.
<LaserJock> there are lots and lots of Rosetta complaints
<LaserJock> to some degree we don't get stuff fixed because we just work around problems
<LaserJock> but I've been to 2 LP user's meetings
<LaserJock> and it was 90% Rosetta
<nixternal> ScottK: either it worked, or it blew up your computer :) thanks for the email ;p
<Fujitsu> They may feel that Rosetta is important, but I feel that it should be quite obvious that the management of an enormous number of packages (with tens of thousands of bugs) might be a little more of a priority.
<persia> Fujitsu: Rosetta generates "supported" output, MOTU doesn't.
<minghua> I also think Rosetta gets more attention because it's practically the best tool available for translation
<minghua> Soyuz has too many competitors and improving it doesn't gain you much, from a business point of view
<StevenK> I can think of dak and nothing else.
<persia> StevenK: Don't other distros (SuSE, Fedora, etc.) have something similar?
<StevenK> Fedora is whacky, and builds from CVS using CVS tags.
<StevenK> SuSE, I'm not sure about at all.
<minghua> yeah, I wonder what the RPM distros use
<minghua> and actually I was thinking "Soyuz and Malone"
<persia> StevenK: That sounds like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-source-packages
<StevenK> Oh, twitch.
<Fujitsu> I like the sound of no-more-source-packages, but it seems to have been postponed indefinitely.
* persia thinks that is a good thing
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I like it too.
<Fujitsu> persia: WHat is? The postponing?
<TheMuso> But why its postponed, I don't know.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  The postponing.
<Fujitsu> persia: Why?
<minghua> Fujitsu: I don't think putting upstream releases in VCS is exactly a good idea
<Fujitsu> A lot of packages are already maintained in VCSes.
<persia> Fujitsu: I like working with source packages locally to get something working, and make a lot of little patches that get applied, and deapplied.  I'm not sure I want to transition to VCS for that, and a workflow of checkout, apply patches, checkin seems more effort than dput.
<Fujitsu> Anyway, I really have to leave now, or I'll miss my train.
<minghua> but I wouldn't object getting rid of .diff.gz
<jmg_> unless this is in sync with what debian do i dont think it will fly, but it is a good idea
<persia> Fujitsu: Also, depending on implementation, it can destroy the cryptographic link to upstream with the md5sum contained in the .dsc.  Perhaps for Ubuntu-native software...
<persia> minghua: Do you mean containing diff.gz in VCS, like some of the alioth packages?
<StevenK> jmg_: What happens with a sync is they are all imported into the VCS and then all requested to build.
<Hobbsee> persia: do you want to do me a favour?
<persia> Hobbsee: Which?
<Hobbsee> persia: do you want to convert https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegames/+bug/70264 into a usable patch please (with wherever it should install to, etc)?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 70264 in kdegames "knetwalk does not have a .desktop file" [Low,Confirmed]  
<jmg_> what vcs could handle the entire debian archive?
<LaserJock> well, suse has that build service, seems kinda like PPA
<LaserJock> that might be a competitor to soyuz
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah buildservice is
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  Do you want debdiff with changelog, or just debdiff?
<Hobbsee> persia: just debdiff is fine, tahnks
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it can build more than suse's stuff too
<LaserJock> yep
<joejaxx> LaserJock: they build debian packages on there
<LaserJock> I've seen stuff for Ubuntu on there
<persia> Hobbsee: I'll post it to the bug in a few minutes.
<joejaxx> yeap
<Hobbsee> thanks :)
<LaserJock> jmg_: bzr of course ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to write a script to extract out all .desktops in Main and Universe
<ScottK> nixternal: Courier uploaded.  Congratulations.
<StevenK> LaserJock: I wrote a script that finds them all. I forget where persia put it, though.
<minghua> persia: yes that's what I meant
<jmg_> LaserJock: heh
<LaserJock> I wonder if going through every .deb and dpkg -c | grep .desktop on them if it'd work
<jmg_> LaserJock: good baptism by fire for bzr there.
<LaserJock> StevenK: for *all* packages or just what's installed?
<Hobbsee> okay, at this point, now i want core dev.
<LaserJock> really?
<persia> LaserJock: For all packages.  It's at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles
<Hobbsee> yes.
<minghua> what does PPA stand for by the way?
<LaserJock> Personal Package Archive
<minghua> thanks LaserJock 
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: core dev?
<joejaxx> :P
<persia> minghua: I'm not as opposed to that, but I'm inherently conservative, and anything that changes my workflow is not preferred ;)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: :P
<joejaxx> :)
<minghua> shouldn't grep-dctrl be able to get the file list of packages?
<jmg_> LaserJock: im willing to bet that that spec would need some investment in hardware to see implemented
<minghua> then you don't need a mirror for what LaserJock wants to do
<LaserJock> persia: I don't see anything
<minghua> persia: I'm not the dicision maker, I was just stating my personal opinion :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I have a local mirror
<LaserJock> so if there's a fast script to do it locally, I'm all for it
<LaserJock> I want to do some .desktop checking
<persia> LaserJock: Under Finding candidates for .desktop files (midway down the page) is StevenK's script that identifies all the packages that have Debian menu entries, but don't have .desktop files, which I believe is that to which he was referring.
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to extract all the .desktop files from Main and Universe
<persia> LaserJock: You might also want to follow https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-desktopfile-ui as part of the .desktop file master plan.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Would you please approve me as a UUS member?
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to check categories as I think we've screwed up a bunch
<Hobbsee> ScottK: consider it done
<persia> LaserJock: Extraction is a bit harder.  Parse Contents to find them all, and for each package, use dpkg-deb --extract to get your .desktop file.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.
<LaserJock> persia: sounds about right
<LaserJock> I hate having to fix messes I've created ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: Since when did we have the Science menu?
<persia> LaserJock: Category cleanup would be nice.  There's all the Science packages under Education that were generated when Science didn't show up in the menus (fixed last week, I think), and there's heaps of Category=Application that should be removed.
* minghua didn't follow the whole thing very closely
<LaserJock> whoa!
<LaserJock> we have a Science menu!!!
<ScottK> nixternal: Tag you're it now.
<persia> LaserJock: Upstream fixed the bug a couple weeks ago.  I think they appear under Other for now, but at least they appear.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :D
<LaserJock> well, from my reading of the fd.o spec
<LaserJock> there should be *nothing* in Other
<LaserJock> but I don't know what bug you're talking about
<persia> LaserJock: Ideally, but most Science apps don't fit any of the registered Main Categories :(
<LaserJock> right, but that's a fd.o problem
<persia> bug 47426
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 47426 in gnome-menus "desktop files with Category=Science; don't show in the menus" [Low,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/47426
<LaserJock> hmm, so that bug was that .desktop without Application category didn't show up?
<persia> LaserJock: No bug.  "Application" always shows up, but f.d.o says that Application is deprecated (and not supported), and so desktop-file-validate tells people to remove it.
<persia> Sorry - misread.  Yes.
<LaserJock> well, there are a couple things I'd love to see
<LaserJock> 1) Science get it's own Main category status
<LaserJock> 2) allow for links in menus
<LaserJock> but I don't think I'll be successful in getting either
<persia> #1 is an fdo bug.  What do you mean by #2?
<LaserJock> well, a URL link can be made with a .desktop
<LaserJock> so you could make bookmarks in the menus
<LaserJock> however gnome does not recognize that Type of .desktop
<persia> The current workaround is to create a .desktop with "Exec=x-www-browser URL"
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> but I don't like that workaround ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Why not?  How should the menu system decide what handler the user wishes to activate for a URL?
<LaserJock> it doesn't
<LaserJock> I can do it on a desktop
<LaserJock> it seems logical that I should be able to do it in the  menu
<Hobbsee> persia: wait, nvm
<minghua> persia: by using the preferred URL handler?  (not that I think it makes sense to have URL links in desktop menu)
<LaserJock> the motivation for this was Edubuntu
<persia> Hobbsee: And after I've been compiling that *huge* package.  You've got it then?
<LaserJock> we'd like to make it so that teachers can put URL links to wikipedia,etc. in the menus along with the apps
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, just found debian had updated it :(
<Hobbsee> persia: adn you didnt need to compile
<minghua> LaserJock: I feel the correct approach is add a "bookmarks" section in gnome-menu
<persia> Hobbsee: I always test my patches to make sure I didn't break anything - especially because the syntax of .install files is so special.
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  Do you mean Type=Location .desktop files?
<minghua> LaserJock: like what we have now for "recent documents"
<LaserJock> perhaps something like that
<Hobbsee> persia: okay, mroe to the point, if i only asked for a patch, and not a full debdiff with changes it's because i'm about to integrate it wtih more changes.  and a new upstream
<Hobbsee> in some cases
<Hobbsee> sorry about that :(
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Just delete the absolute path from the provided file, and make sure you have the right syntax in knetwalk.install.  That's all you need.
<LaserJock> persia: Type=Link
* persia reads the spec again
<LaserJock> I can make one and drop it on the desktop and it works fine
<LaserJock> but gnome-menus explicitly ignores them
<Hobbsee> persia: cool, thanks
<LaserJock> I think there are enough useful use cases for being able to put links in the menu system that it shouldn'e be forbidden
<LaserJock> hence : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=374577
<ubotu> Gnome bug 374577 in general "Gnome menus should support Type=Link" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  "Type=Link".  It looks like f.d.o indicates that only "Type=Application" belongs in the menus, so "Type=Directory" will also not appear.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> "A desktop entry is a file with a name ending in the ".desktop" extension which conforms to the desktop entry specification with Type=Application."
<LaserJock> but I think it's a tad narrow to assume that only Applications are in the menu
<persia> LaserJock: Try submitting a patch.  As long as there's a good use-case, it may well be accepted, and if GNOME moves, f.d.o may follow.
<LaserJock> especially considering things like recent documents, Places, etc.
<LaserJock> anwyay, I'm off for home
<LaserJock> bbiab
<nixternal> how come krename hasn't been synced yet?
<StevenK> Has it been acked?
<Hobbsee> archive admins havent acted yet?
<ScottK> nixternal: Thanks for doing courier.
<nixternal> no problems
<nixternal> Hobbsee: ahh
<nixternal> OK
<nixternal> imbrandon: I am going to work on kflickr if that is OK with you...first need to make sure it hasn't been done already
<ajmitch> nixternal: just use f-spot :)
<nixternal> no thank you
<nixternal> I don't even use flickr anymore
<Hobbsee> nixternal: i think i filed a sync for htat
<nixternal> orly
<ajmitch> yarly
* StevenK doesn't like Flickr much.
<StevenK> I don't know what about it makes me dislike it.
<nixternal> it was cool last year
<StevenK> Web 2.0 is so 2006.
<StevenK> Right. I can't believe I just said that.
* StevenK goes away to shoot himself.
* ajmitch helps out
<nixternal> haha
* nixternal sends the bullets
<StevenK> Hmph.
<nixternal> hey, you asked for it, and ajmitch decided to help...I figured since we are a great big community, I would help out as well ;)
<nixternal> plus I kind of felt left out...you know like crimsun sitting there with his Vista box trying to file bugs against it
<persia> Warning: sbuild 0.54 doesn't work yet.  Wait for 0.55 or fix schroot interaction.
<StevenK> What's wrong with sbuild 0.54?
<persia> StevenK: chroot_mode is obsolete at /usr/share/perl5/Sbuild/Conf.pm line 163. (stock distributed sbuild.conf)
<StevenK> Yummy.
<persia> StevenK: There's a big transition to make all sbuilds be done on schroots, which I think is good, but it needs just a bit more :)
<StevenK> Ah.
<StevenK> I was going to look at sbuild soonish.
<persia> StevenK: 0.53 is still on some mirrors, if you want to grab it fast, but I recommend waiting for 0.55, as enough is changing that you'll find it easier to use the newer version.
<StevenK> When's 0.55 due?
<persia> StevenK: I don't know yet - I just discovered the problem, and worked around it.  Digging deeper has been set with high priority on my queue.
<PriceChild> persia, wooo thanks for the patch! :D
<PriceChild> Just checking it builds now
<persia> PriceChild: Great.  Let me know when there's a new version on REVU, and I'll post comments (and likely advocate at this point).
<PriceChild> as soon as (/if) it builds I'll put it to revu with the latest other silly changes like sections
<PriceChild> argh just failed...
<PriceChild> really early on... I must have broken something myself
<nixternal> MOTUs: Bug 116106 if you get the chance
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116106 in yakuake "[Sync Request]  Please sync Yakuake (2.8~beta1-1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116106
* persia encourages people listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors to put some bugs up on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring
<PriceChild> persia, I'll pastebin the ouput of pbuilder.
<persia> PriceChild: Great.  I'll take a look.
<PriceChild> hehe
* PriceChild will be heading off reasonably soon
<ScottK> nixternal: Is it safe to sync over the existing Ubuntu changes in yakuake?
<PriceChild> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21922/
<persia> PriceChild: OK.  The problem seems to be that the definition of "unsigned int" is different for AMD64 and i386, annoyingly enough.  I'm stumped.
<PriceChild> Hehe :)
<persia> Does anyone familiar with 64-bit porting in C++ have time to help PriceChild and I debug a patch?
<RAOF> persia: I'm not very familiar, but I've done some trivial stuff in the past.
<RAOF> And I'm *always* willing to get 64bit builds working :)
<nixternal> ScottK: good question...looking into it now
<LaserJock> persia: perhaps we could add an item to the MOTU meeting agenda about +mentoring
<ajmitch> LaserJock: just add it
<persia> RAOF: Thanks.  We're looking at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gizmod-0705201505/gizmod-3.1/libH/Debug.hpp, and want to pass an unsigned int to <<.  Any ideas on syntax?
<persia> LaserJock: Sounds good.  Please add it.
<ScottK> nixternal: OK.  If in fact it is safe to sync over an existing Ubuntu change, then you need to say that and explain why in the bug.
<persia> RAOF: My last attempt was http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21924/, but that results in http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21922/.
<nixternal> ScottK: going to scratch that sync...I can only drop 1 kubuntu patch from the looks of it right now
<nixternal> if you have it open, just reject it..I will fix this up and request merge
<persia> nixternal: Don't scratch it, just retitle to merge, and assign yourself :)
<nixternal> persia: true, thanks
<ScottK> nixternal: Rejected.
<nixternal> ahh, that's why I couldn't find it :)
<persia> ScottK: No need to reject.  Just unsubscribe UUS, and let nixternal fix it :)
<ScottK> persia: My theory was as written, sync, it needs rejecting.  If he wants to edit it into a merge, then he can set it to not rejected.  I did unsub uus.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks for the reminder on unsubbing.
<persia> ScottK: That makes sense.  I'll add it to my private list of workflow for discussion at the meeting.
<ScottK> OK
<ajmitch> ScottK, persia: you're both recent MOTUs, do you have reviewer rights on REVU?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I took care of them
<ScottK> ajmitch: I do.  LaserJock hooked me up today.
<persia> ajmitch: LaserJock granted me rights recently.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ok, thanks :)
* ajmitch is obsolete now
<LaserJock> hah
<persia> ajmitch: Never, you're just exploring new horizons :)
<RAOF> persia: Hm, that *looks* right.  I thought that size_t and unsigned int should be recognised as different types.  I'll try it.
<ajmitch> persia: nah, I'm washed up, no use :)
<persia> RAOF: Remember that on i386 size_t is 32 bits, and therefore hard to distinguis from 32-bit unsigned int.
<PriceChild> persia, I'm off for the evening, thanks for all your work again.
<persia> PriceChild: Have a good night.  I'll send you something if we can find a solution.
* PriceChild crosses his fingers
<RAOF> Ooh, indeed.
<RAOF> Sorry, I was misundertanding the problem.  It *works* on x86-64, but not on i386 :)
<persia> RAOF: We might also be able to cast in the call to <<, but I'm not sure how to represent it properly.
<ScottK> keescook and anyone else interested, updated clamav proposal for Friday's MOTU meeting here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-May/001649.html
<persia> RAOF: unpatched, it works on i386.  patched it works on x86-64.  It doesn't seem so complex to require architecture-dependent #ifdefs
<persia> s/to require/as to require/
<RAOF> So something in the code is trying to debug<<unsigned int, yes?
<persia> RAOF: well, for an instantiated Debug (cdbg2 if I remember correctly), but yes.
<RAOF> persia: Why not change <<size_t to <<unsigned long?
<RAOF> (And keep the new <<unsigned int).
<RAOF> That's kinda ugly, but works.
* RAOF isn't sure whether or not size_t is *always* castable to either unsigned int or unsigned long
<RAOF> s/castable/implicitly castable/
<persia> RAOF: Do you have i386 hardware to test?
<RAOF> persia: My minimal testcase builds fine with -m32 on x86-64
<RAOF> Which *should* duplicate i386 building.
<RAOF> Heh, and I've got an i386 chroot, allow me to build it in there :)
<persia> RAOF: Hrm.  It should, but I'm not certain what the knock-on effects for the rest of the code might be.
<persia> RAOF: You'll probably have PIC errors (or at least that happened earlier when trying to use an AMD64 chroot for the opposite).
<nixternal> grr, no go on yakuake sync...we had Kubuntu changes..I have updated the changes, dropped one patch, and am building it now..will request merge after testing
<RAOF> persia: I'm not sure what you're talking about.  *My* testcase is whether or not you can overload a "func(unsigned long)" with "func(unsigned int)", and then a func(size_t) works.
<persia> RAOF: Alternately, what do you thing about cdbg2 << string1 << ( tmpString << x ) << endl;
<RAOF> s/thing/think/ ?
<persia> RAOF: For your testcase, I think everything will work, but I'm not sure about effects to the rest of the application.
<RAOF> Looks fairly ugly :)
<persia> RAOF: Sorry.  s/thing/think/ and move to the place in the code that is currently similar to cdbg2 << string1 << x << endl;
<RAOF> persia: I don't think there will be any other effects (at least on i386 & x86-64).  On those platforms, size_t *is* either unsigned int or unsigned long, which is the problem
<persia> RAOF: Actually, that will probably work.  If there are overloads for both unsigned int and unsigned long, and the handlers are basically the same, any size_t passed will just pick the appropriate handler.  Thanks.
<RAOF> Yeah, that's what I meant :).
<RAOF> Glad to help!
* persia should really learn C++ from somewhere other than #ubuntu-motu
<RAOF> Nah
<RAOF> Working C++ :)
<LaserJock> persia: I know the feeling
<LaserJock> I'm trying to learn C++ too but I'm really struggling
<leonel> motus  good night !
<persia> LaserJock: I learned most of what I know from ajmitch, and it's been good enough to get me through 90% of the patches I've written (about 300k in aggregate size by now).
* RAOF learnt C++ from a book called "C++ for dummies", which was surprisingly good.
<RAOF> This was *some time* ago, however :)
<nixternal> ok MOTUs => Malone Bug 116108
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116108 in yakuake "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge Yakuake (2.8~beta1-1ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116108
<persia> nixternal: The Debian changelog is missing.  Remember to use debuild -S -vfoo when pasting.
<nixternal> it is missing?
<persia> nixternal: From .changes (and, more importantly, from the bug description)
<nixternal> gah
<persia> nixternal: One has to explain why a merge is good.  Usually the debian changelog does a good job of that.
<nixternal> and did you notice "feisty" and not "gutsy"
* persia didn't look that closely
<nixternal> jeesh this makes me mad...I wish it would just default already :)
<persia> nixternal: Use gutsy devscripts :)
* ajmitch sighs, broken upload
<ajmitch> it was inevitable
<crimsun> ImportError: No module named pygtk
* crimsun scratches his head
<nixternal> OK, fixed
<nixternal> yes, i am grabbing the gutsy devscripts now
<nixternal> this is annoying persia...I posted again with Feisty ;/
<persia> nixternal: No worries.  I'll ignore the mail :)
<persia> RAOF: Does http://pastebin.ca/501552 look right to you?
<RAOF> persia: Yeah, looks fine.  Just as a stylistic thing I'd put the "ulong" declaration after the "long" declaration, but that's just me.
<persia> RAOF: I almost did that, but my preference for small patches overrode my preference for nice looking code :)
<RAOF> persia: Of course, another option would be to *remove* everything but the long/unsigned long ones.  The code doesn't actually need the int ones (since int is implicitly cast up to long when necessary)
<persia> RAOF: I'll mention that to upstream, but I'm not sure I want to change it that much.  Thanks a lot for your help.
<persia> nixternal: Thanks for fixing it.  I'll process this now.
<nixternal> hrmm, devscripts relies on a newer libc6, and I know how evil that can be
<nixternal> thanks persia 
<persia> nixternal: Backport it - it may build from source in feisty.
<nixternal> hehe, almost done doing that :)
<dabaR> I am going to learn how to merge. Should I use a package that really needs to be merged?
<crimsun> ah.
<crimsun> ajmitch: thanks for 116109.
<persia> dabaR: That's best, as your work will get a better review.
<ajmitch> crimsun: just uploaded fix, a simple case of 2 misplaced # marks
<ajmitch> crimsun: did it bite you?
<crimsun> yup
<dabaR> persia: thanks. Where can I find a package that needs to be merged?
<ajmitch> crimsun: sorry about that, I should have checked more closely before uploading last night
<crimsun> ajmitch: np :)
<persia> dabaR: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html has a list.  Be sure to check with the person listed as the last uploader before proceeding.
* LongPointyStick pokes crimsun 
<crimsun> and here come the dupes.
* RAOF notices that there's a package on there he touched last.  Time to merge pyinotify :)
<nixternal> how come 'gutsy' is highlighted in red when I use dch?
<crimsun> LongPointyStick: hi
* LongPointyStick DOOMS pointy-clicky nixternal to using vista forever more.
<nixternal> hrmm
<I_LUV_VISTA> yeehaw!
<LongPointyStick> haha
<I_LUV_VISTA> oh jeesh, here come the flames and the trolls
<nixternal> man, don't do that when you are like in 40+ chans
<LongPointyStick> haha
<dabaR> heh
<ajmitch> crimsun: interesting, I wonder when it built
* ajmitch only saw it when trolling the forums :)
<ajmitch> of course I'm also watching out for new samba bugreports in gutsy
<LongPointyStick> sure sure
<ajmitch> LongPointyStick: ?
<minghua> nixternal: I believe the highlighting is done by your editor
<LongPointyStick> you're just trying to avoid work again
<ajmitch> LongPointyStick: please explain
<crimsun> minghua: nah, nixternal is using Vista.  It highlights "gutsy" automagically.
<LongPointyStick> ajmitch: you were just trying to take over the forums or something, with your evil plans
<ajmitch> LongPointyStick: I didn't even post on the forums
* persia thinks we should copy that Vista feature :)
<ajmitch> and haven't for weeks
<LongPointyStick> with the idea of "looking for bug reports" as a cover
* dabaR suggests persia asks them to contribute the source :)
<chillywilly> http://thecutest.info
<chillywilly> :)
<minghua> crimsun: :-)
<minghua> you have to give nixternal points for using dch in vista
<ajmitch> chillywilly: how very disturbing
<teer> hi - just chatting with the good folk in #uqm, the people who maintain that Ur-Quan Masters game that is a package in Ubuntu.  They say it is packaged incorrectly.  Who should they contact regarding this issue?
<nixternal> minghua: haha
<persia> teer: Any MOTU is a good contact, but I'll come by #uqm to discuss.
<persia> teer: Nobody seems to be there.
<teer> Thank you, oops, they are using #sc2
<persia> teer: Thanks.
<StevenK> persia: If you upload merges, you need to include the Debian changes in the .changes files as well.
<persia> StevenK: That's `debuild -S -sa -v<last Ubuntu> -k<mykey>`, right?
<StevenK> persia: I will usually run dpkg-genchanges by hand after seeing a build suceed.
<persia> (assuming new upstream - drop -sa for debian revision change only
<persia> )
<StevenK> persia: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=
<StevenK> persia: You'll see a clanlib upload, which is correct.
<persia> StevenK: Is yakuake not?
<StevenK> Right, yakuake looks right, xmms-scrobbler does not.
<StevenK> Never mind, I'm utterly confused.
<StevenK> persia: Sorry, I'll leave you be. :-)
<persia> StevenK: I may well have made a mistake, but I didn't binary-upload from sparc.  Please prod me if you see anything else that might be wrong.
<StevenK> persia: Binary uploads are only allowed from the buildds. I think the problem is that I can't read, sorry.
<persia> StevenK: No worries :)  I understand there are excellent literacy programs in Sydney.
<StevenK> persia: Hmph.
<LaserJock> is anybody here running XFCE?
<persia> LaserJock: I have a sid VM with XFCE, if that helps.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm trying to figure out some .desktop stuff
<persia> LaserJock: What?
<LaserJock> tuxpaint has a .desktop
<LaserJock> with no categories
<LaserJock> and it installs to the old gnome and kde directories
<persia> And you want to know if it works in XFCE?
<LaserJock> I want to know what the current .desktop does
<StevenK> TheMuso: espeak given back on amd64 and powerpc, and have now both built. I've also closed the bug.
<LaserJock> hmm, well actually I know what it does
<LaserJock> it doesn't show up
<persia> LaserJock: I've just been moving those to /usr/share/applications, which works for everyone.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the Categories
<crimsun> it honours the fd.o spec. Just stick it where appropriate, and it'll appear correctly in GNOME and in Xfce.
<LaserJock> I'm thinking Graphics should work
<LaserJock> I believe it used to show up in both Graphics and Education
<persia> LaserJock: I'd suggest Categories=Graphics; 2DGraphics; Art;
<persia> Alternately Categories=Graphics; 2DGraphics; RasterGraphics; or Categories=Education;Art; if you don't want dual associations.
<LaserJock> I don't think I do
<LaserJock> it confuses people
<persia> LaserJock: Education; Art; is probably cleanest then, given the nature of the package.
<LaserJock> probably
<superm1> persia, your MOTU now?
<persia> superm1: Yes.
<ajmitch> finally
<superm1> persia, congrats :)
<persia> superm1: Thank you.
<superm1> so that means you have the honor of doing revus eh.....?
<persia> ajmitch: I need incentive.  Blame PPA :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> should I do more merges in main, or in universe?
<LaserJock> both!
<persia> superm1: Yes, but my mentoring plate is currently full.  When one of the current packages or patches gets released, I'll take a new one.
<RAOF> Man, I *really* need to get around to building a sid VM. 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I think I might pick off some of doko's python merges in main, with his permission
<superm1> well i have a package with two +1's already ( LaserJock and keescook  ), but keescook wanted a third opinion before uploading, any other takers?
<ajmitch> the mythtv themes?
<superm1> na
<superm1> mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch might take a look tonight
<persia> superm1: I don't want to download that .orig.tar.gz :)
<superm1> persia, haha, different package thank goodness
<superm1> thx if you get a chance ajmitch 
<ajmitch> or persia could take a look at it
<crimsun> superm1: you're missing COPYING in the root of the extracted mythbuntu-artwork-usplash
<crimsun> that's an instant reject by the archive admin.
<LaserJock> really? I thought I saw it when I was reviewing
<crimsun> ls: *COPY*: No such file or directory
<LaserJock> bah
<superm1> crimsun, not all packages have a file entitled COPYING in the root though?
<superm1> what packages should or shouldnt have this file?
<crimsun> superm1: both usplash-theme-mythbuntu.c and debian/copyright reference a copy of the GPL. It doesn't exist, in its entirety, in the source package.
<superm1> it can't just be referenced to a location on a system?
<crimsun> sure it can, but that's not sufficient.
<minghua> for native package, maybe
<crimsun>  * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
<crimsun>  * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
<crimsun>  * Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301 USA
<minghua> for non-native ones, I don't think that's good enough
<superm1> kubuntu-default-settings doesn't provide one at all
<crimsun> there is no "copy of the GNU General Public License" included in the source package.
<crimsun> superm1: that doesn't make it correct. I asked cjwatson about it earlier this year. It's a bug.
<minghua> yeah, no second thought, what crimsun pointed out apply for native package as well
<superm1> Ok.
<crimsun> aside from that, it looks reasonable.
<superm1> okay, i'll get a COPYING file added and reupload
<ajmitch> how annoying, requestsync broke
<RAOF> Ok, how can I get inotify support in my gusty dchroot?  I presume I need to bind-mount proc as well?  Will anything bad happen? :)
* RAOF is (trying to) testing his merged pyinotify package
<jussi01> good morning motu's!
<ajmitch> hello jussi01 
<RAOF> afternoon jussi01 
<jussi01> morning ajmitch, RAOF anything exciting happening?
* RAOF will hopefully be moving on the weekend, and is merging pyinotify.
<ajmitch> jussi01: I'm breaking main!
<jussi01> ajmitch: lol, nice, im sure everyone loves you
<ajmitch> yeah
<superm1> crimsun, i've updated it on revu.  since you didnt see anything else other than the missing COPYING file, would you be able to look it over once more (and hopefully +1 it :))?
<dabaR> Please help me in #ubuntu-bugs
<dabaR> I am considering this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootcd/+bug/103647 I can see that the bug is in no way related to bootcd, and is fairly old. I am considering putting status to needs info, with a comment asking whether it still happens, and changing the affected package to the kernel. Is that what I should do?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103647 in bootcd "Feisty Beta Live CD freezes on boot process" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* RAOF should learn to *read* his merge report *before* hitting the "submit" button.
<RAOF> However, bug #116121 is now ready for merging.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116121 in pyinotify "[merge] Please merge pyinotify 0.7.0-1 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116121
<doko> ajmitch: please go ahead =)
<ajmitch> I'll start with python-ldap & python-pam
<StevenK> doko: Do you mind if I borrow libapache2-mod-python?
<doko> StevenK: go ahead
<dabaR> crimsun: can you help me with bug #36464, please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 36464 in bootcd "spdif audio stopped working" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/36464
<dabaR> It is not related to the package it is assigned to, afaict. I suppose you may know where it belongs.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> TheMuso: No problem.
* RAOF can now see why people like irssi :)
<TheMuso> Now if only I could resolve why Ardour won't build...
<Fujitsu> RAOF: When did you start using it?
* man-di wonders why tsmithe pinged him yesterday
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Last week or so.
<RAOF> Also...
* TheMuso applauds RAOF.
<RAOF> Wooooo!  We got the flat!  Woooooooo!
* Fujitsu does so too.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: Great :)
* RAOF runs around the room
<Fujitsu> I moved from XChat a couple of months ago, and haven't looked back.
<persia> RAOF: Congratulations.
<nixternal> mmm irssi
* TheMuso hits the merges.
<StevenK> RAOF: Woot!
* StevenK hugs irssi.
<StevenK> I stopped using XChat, oooh, three years ago.
<LaserJock> I still use gaim for IRC every once in a while
<TheMuso> Irssi is all I have ever used, when under Linux.
* highvoltage too
<RAOF> lastlog is awesome, as is the higlight window
<StevenK> highlight window?
* StevenK has a thought.
<StevenK> persia: Does your sbuild setup work currently?
<persia> StevenK: Yes, but it's not current.  Why?
<RAOF> Oh, there's a script which allows you to add a window with all the lines that get highlighted.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ooooooo
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yes.  Useful, eh? :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Where does one find this?
<StevenK> persia: I'm curious if you've tried to build ardour using it.
<RAOF> It's from one of the irssi tutorials linked from the irssi home page
* RAOF checks
<persia> StevenK: Works fine.  scons is evil and bad :)
* StevenK hugs lightbar.pl
* StevenK saves some love for autorealname.pl, too.
<RAOF> TheMuso: f0rked.com/articles/irssi
<TheMuso> RAOF: Thanks.
<persia> Unless there is a new ardour since I last compiled.  TheMuso, which ardour is broken?
* RAOF thanks irssi for *not* letting him past 9 lines worth of crap into #ubuntu-motu
<RAOF> s/past/paste/
<TheMuso> persia: Even the latest ardour sync from Debian doesn't build.
<nixternal> ctrl+k
<nixternal> ;)
<StevenK> RAOF: Yes. I really don't mind that feature.
<persia> TheMuso: Have you tried on local sbuild, oir is it just buildd scons craziness?
<TheMuso> persia: Going to try on local sbuild as soon as its updated.
<RAOF> I need to learn why mouse-3 pasting isn't working reliably into my ssh/screen session.  Until then, it's nice that irssi will ask me before I flood the channel :)
<StevenK> Heh
<persia> TheMuso: I recommend staying away from sbuild 0.54.  Let me know if you want me to test build.
<StevenK> doko: Can I also borrow nbd? Should I stop asking? :-)
<TheMuso> persia: Using the one in feisty.
<persia> TheMuso: Wise that :)
<TheMuso> persia: Commencing sbuild of ardour now.
<Fujitsu> Is there any reason to maintain a s/xlibmesa-gl-dev/x11proto-gl-dev/ delta from Debian if the Debian package builds fine? I don't see any point.o
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I thought there was a difference between the two?
<doko> StevenK: yes, stop asking =)
<Fujitsu> So did I, but I've got a package here that has them substituted, but builds fine without.
<persia> Fujitsu: Does it run fine?  We've lots of xlibmesa-gl-dev packages.
<StevenK> doko: Just borrow them? Is there any you'd like me to stay away from?
<persia> s/packages/build-dependent packages/
<doko> StevenK: no, go ahead
<StevenK> doko: Okay, thanks.
* StevenK chuckles at the nbd Debian changelog.
<StevenK> "* Port fix for "config file isn't generated on first install" from nbd-server to nbd-client. Squish this bug on my forehead with a giant cluebat. Note to self: nbd has *two* binary packages, not one. Two. That means bugs reported against one package will most likely occur in the other, too, so need fixing there as well. Sigh."
<Fujitsu> I'm sure the NM guide says specifically not to do that sort of stuff in a changelog :P
<StevenK> Oh?
<StevenK> Don't read the linda changelog, then.
<Fujitsu> Hah.
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Has anybody asked fd.o about making Science a main category?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It might take a while to read the Linda changelog.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: So I see.
<StevenK> It being roughly 2,400 lines.
<Fujitsu>   * Initial packaging.
<Fujitsu>   * Well, not really, just fixing the changelog.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm not quite sure
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I've seen lots of discussion about Math and Science
<Fujitsu> Having both would be nice, but Science is necessary.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The "real" initial packaging of Linda had a different source name.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<LaserJock> well, I just feel like it might be a bit much to ask for Science
<Fujitsu> Where else are they meant to go?
<LaserJock> well, the thing is it seems like a slippery slope
<Fujitsu> How?
<LaserJock> once you add one, then it opens it up for other people's pet categories
<Fujitsu> I guess.
<LaserJock> for me it's obvious that there are a lot of science apps that don't fit in Education
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if it's a general opinion
<LaserJock> it might be worth emailing the xdg list
* RAOF would like _texmacs_ to make its way out of education, certainly :)
* persia agrees Science should be a "Main Category", and the primary science .desktop generator (Phil Bull) is of this opinion as well.
<LaserJock> so if I email fd.o I'll get lost of "+1" ?
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> s/lost/lots/
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'm sure you can collect a large band of replies from us, and probably debian-science.
<persia> LaserJock: Tell me where to point my mail client, and I'll ignore the old advice I received about not sendmail mail that only said "Mee Too!".
<persia> s/sendmail/sending/
<TheMuso> Ok this really really sucks. Ardour builds fine in a local updated sbuild.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Hahahaha.
<Fujitsu> Complain to infinity.
<TheMuso> brb
<LaserJock> ok guys, when I have an email to fd.o I'll let you know so you can put in your +1s ;-)
<LaserJock> I gotta get to be right now though
<LaserJock> cya tomorrow
<Fujitsu> Bye, LaserJock.
<StevenK> doko: We don't need to build python debug packages manually now, right?
<doko> StevenK: ohh, how do you autobuild them?
<StevenK> doko: Well, as in, are they required? I remember you saying something about it a few weeks ago.
<nixternal> head>bed == g'nite
<doko> StevenK: didn't say anything about that, please keep them
<StevenK> doko: So noted.
* Fujitsu heads off to TAFE.
<StevenK> Hrm. pycairo is a fun merge. Not too difficult, but still challenging.
<jack_deltrino> How do I do what dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip -9 > Packages.gz does with apt-ftparchive?
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: Huh?
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: What exactly do you want to do?
<dholbach> good morning
<jack_deltrino> Adding my own packages to my apt repository.
<jack_deltrino> shawarma: I remember someone mentioning it a long time ago, but I didn't have logs on unfortunately.
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: And which part of that is not done by the command you wrote?
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: Ah...
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: Now I get it.
<jack_deltrino> shawarma: It's not installed on the system and I know someone said apt-ftparchive does this (which is installed)
<shawarma> jack_deltrino: You want to use apt-ftparchive instead of dpkg-scanpackages. For some reason I read it the other way around.
<jack_deltrino> Eh, my brain works the s/PATTERN/REPLACEMENT/ way :P
<jack_deltrino> So... any ideas?
<imbrandon> jack_deltrino, take a look at this script
<imbrandon> http://www.kubuntu.org/packages/amarok-latest/ARCHIVE
<imbrandon> it should do what you want with some modification
<jack_deltrino> Uhm... right, what's the modification? I know how to use apt-ftparchive, but how to add custom packages as dpkg-scanpackages allows you to do is another story.
<imbrandon> modification just as in pointing it to the correct pool on your server
<imbrandon> you can add what ever packages you want
<mumbly> Could a MOTU please delete one of my upload on REVU ?
<jack_deltrino> My problem is I get mywebserver/mycustomreposection/feisty/binary-i386 not found.
<jack_deltrino> I'm using lighttpd for the web server.
<bytee> Hi, is there a reason why Seamonkey isn't being shipped with Feisty Fawn?
<crimsun> you should ask in #ubuntu-mozillateam.
<crimsun> essentially, it's under consideration for gutsy AFAIR.
<crimsun> mumbly: ...being?
<mumbly> crimsun, acer_acpi ... but it seems it has been rejected ...
<mumbly> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/rejected/
<crimsun> I don't have priv to do that.
<jack_deltrino> Hmm, well mycustomrepository is not in the lighttpd configuration file, but I know at one point it used to work with this current configuration file.
<mumbly> crimsun, ok ... should i ask someone else ? siretart ? Raphink ?
<raphink> hi mumbly
<raphink> nice to see you here
<mumbly> raphink, hi ! It's been a long time ! :)
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> what is your rejected package?
<mumbly> raphink, i'm packaging some stuff but I a kind of "newbie" and i think i've made a mistake on uploading a package on REVU
<mumbly> raphink, acer_acpi
<crimsun> dabaR: triaged.
<crimsun> superm1: arg, you attached an old version of COPYING. :-)
<crimsun> superm1: the current version uses "51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA", not the older "59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA"
<jack_deltrino> Grr, I hate this thing.
<jack_deltrino> Maybe someone who helped me out on this channel before will remember tomorrow.
<jack_deltrino> Goodnight all.
<pochu> persia: I have the wx source here: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/. Let me know if you want a diff or something else :)
<persia> pochu: Taking a look now.
<siretart> mumbly: sorry?
<crimsun> siretart: I believe raphink took care of removing the rejected upload.
<siretart> ok. great
<mumbly> siretart, no problem ... i am with raphink
<raphink> hi siretart & crimsun
<siretart> ok, I just reprocessed the queue manually
<siretart> hi raphink & crimsun 
<crimsun> hullo raphink 
<siretart> is Nicolas Derive around?
<raphink> acer-acpi is in
<siretart> I'd like to talk to him about his sauerbraten upload. 
<raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5238 mumbly
<crimsun> hmm. kalon33 doesn't appear to be online.
<siretart> crimsun: you know him?
<crimsun> siretart: nope, just googled for his LP id
<siretart> ok
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> :)
* Fujitsu celebrates the TAFE admins' stupidity.
<Hobbsee> haha
<imbrandon> ello crimsun Fujitsu Hobbsee siretart 
* Hobbsee checks to see if kdegames built
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: please tlel me if you're going to reboot aurora - or at least check if a build is running.  although it hasnt happened yet :)
<Fujitsu> We now have external network access, rather than having to tunnel through the SSL proxy.
<Hobbsee> neat
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, sure, i dont plan on rebooting it anytime soon
<Hobbsee> cool, tahnsk :)
<imbrandon> soon == days / weeks
<persia> pochu: Building now.  A few quick comments are available from http://www.pastebin.ca/501957.  Let me know what you think.
<pochu> looking
<pochu> persia: Sounds good :)
<persia> pochu: You want to make the changes, or shall I?
<siretart> crimsun: I've sent kalon33 an email
<pochu> persia: I'd like to try it ;) So I can learn something :)
<crimsun> siretart: ok.
<pochu> persia: I'll let you know if I need some help, or if I can't do it :)
<persia> pochu: OK.  If you want to do a general cleanup of all the lintian and linda warnings, that'd probably be good as well :)
<pochu> persia: ok, will check it :)
<pochu> persia: for the autotools... in debian/rules, there's no configure option, but a lot of configure-wx-... There's a COMMON_CONFIGURE_OPTIONS, though. I don't know where I should put the config.guess and config.sub stuff. Any hint? :)
<persia> pochu: Looking now
<pochu> Thanks.
<persia> pochu: No, thank you for handling this.  wxWidgets is big, ugly, and full of bugs :)
<pochu> But without some help I couldn't do anything :)
<persia> pochu: For clean, just add to the clean rule.  For configure, I'd add a preconfigure-stamp: rule containing the autotools copy and `touch preconfigure-stamp`, and make all the configure-package-whatever-stamp rules depend on the preconfigure-stamp rule.
<persia> pochu: Oh, and if you take my suggestion, you need to rm preconfigure-stamp in clean.
<pochu> persia: ok, gonna try :)
<pochu> persia: Is it OK to add it just under "# The Rules:", or is there a better place for it?
<pochu> It looks good to me, but I don't know makefiles yet :)
<persia> pochu: I'd probably put it right under the build: rule, just to it's visually close to the rules that depend upon it.
<persia> s/to/so/
<backblue> when i do, apt-cache source package, where does it put, the packages?
<persia> backblue: In the current directory.
<persia> backblue: Ah, and you probably want apt-get source package
<backblue> persia: sorry, my mistake, i want to say apt-get source package.
<backblue> it puts, in the current dir?
<persia> backblue: Yes.  Exactly.
<backblue> ok, thanks.
<backblue> that's strange, shoulnd be a dir for that?
<backblue> if i change something, in the source i just get, it will compile the changes?
<asac> anyone here with decent i386 box who can help out respinning a testbuild for ooo in dapper?
<asac> its about ffox 2 backport for dapper :) ... so if you want to become a hero, jump in ;)
<jmg_> hey guys, my laptop doesnt boot any more, anyone know how to stop it trying to resume a hibernation?
<Ash-Fox> remove the 'resume' line in grub
<jmg_> Ash-Fox: thanks a lot!!!
<Ash-Fox> No problem
<backblue> i have created the package i need, with my modification, how can i replace by the one, that i have installed in my system?
<lionel> backblue: dpkg -i your_apckage.deb
<backblue> why will he install my package? what will he do, with the other that it's already installe?
<persia> backblue: It will upgrade from the currently installed package to your new package.
<backblue> it have compiled the package, without my modification, how it's the best way to do this?
<raphink> #ubuntu-classroom-fr
<raphink> oops
<illovae> hello
<StevenK> Hrm. Linda gets mentioned in robitalille's blog.
<\sh> moins
<\sh> now, people, ubuntu-wine is registered and already filled with some code of wine-doors ;)
<backblue> how can i make a package for ubuntu, but with some changes i need?
<persia> backblue: Does the base package already exist in Ubutu?
<backblue> yes, i do 'pbuilder build file.dsc' and it gives me the .deb file i need, but not with my modifications, where should i make the changes? maybe i'm not doing them in the right place!
<dothebart> backblue: in debian/patches afaik.
<backblue> hoo, if i put there, one patch, it will commit it?
<persia> backblue: There is a lot of good information about this available starting from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation, but a quick summary is to 1)  unpack the source, 2) make your changes (debian/patches is preferred), 3) update the changelog, 4) make a source package (`debuild -S`), 5) make a binary package from the resulting .dsc.
<dothebart> yes. not shure about the name...
<backblue> i have read that link, and they dont speak about patchs
<persia> backblue: Hunt through the links a bit.  I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources listed under MOTU/School/
<Lutin> w 14
<Lutin> err.
<backblue> hi again, very weird, i have the patch in there, i'm compiling the package now, but it does not apply my patch in the new compilation... :|
<persia> backblue: Which patch system is in use by the target package?
<backblue> i dont understand the question, sorry, what exacly do you want to know?
<geser> backblue: which package is it you want to modify?
<backblue> network-manager-openvpn-0.3.2svn2342 -> this one.
<persia> backblue: And you put a new patch in debian/patches?
<backblue> yes, i have.
<backblue> and created a new .dsc file, with a new subrelease
<geser> it uses cdbs with simple-patchsys
<persia> backblue: How are you compiling it?
<backblue> i'm doing pbuilder build file.dsc
<geser> how did you obtain the new .dsc file?
<backblue> i just copy the last default
<backblue> and changed only the version
<backblue> with the new subrelease
<backblue> debuild -S fails, because i dont have the gpg key, of someone that it's in the changelog
<persia> backblue: OK.  You want to change the revision (subrelease) by using `dch -i` in the base directory of the package.  You can force debuild -S to work by using debuild -S -us -uc
<persia> backblue: Alternately, you can create a new .dsc by running `dpkg-source -b network-manager-openvpn-0.3.2svn2342 network-manager-openvpn_0.3.2svn2342.orig.tar.gz` after you add your patch.
<ajmitch> Yee3ya
* ajmitch mutters
<ajmitch> bad touchpad on laptop
<persia> ajmitch: upgrade to the touchscreen :)
<ajmitch> persia: sure, buy me a new laptop :)
* persia considers shipping costs
<ajmitch> heh
* TheMuso has never liked the idea of touch screens. You don't know what anybody's fingers have on them at any time.
<TheMuso> So its easy for them to get very dirty.
<persia> TheMuso: Not even your own?  Plus, one can carry static-free, lint-free, solvent-free wipes in one's pocket :)
<TheMuso> Yep.
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
<ajmitch> morning ScottK 
<persia> Enjoyable diurnal period ScottK
* ajmitch is going off to sleep now
<TheMuso> Night ajmitch.
<ScottK> Hi TheMuso, ajmitch, persia.
<ScottK> Good night ajmitch
<persia> night ajmitch
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<xxxxx1> :)
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hello Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi xxxxx1.
<leonel> eaea  motus  good day !
<Hobbsee> hiya
<Fujitsu> Hi leonel, Hobbsee
<ScottK> Hi leonel and Hobbsee
<leonel> Fujitsu:  epa!
<Hobbsee> :)
<ScottK> It appears we have no buildd's for IA64 for at least the last day.  Known issue?
<leonel> ScottK:  let's smash viruses with the newest  clamav ! 
<StevenK> ScottK: I've asked Mithrandir to have a look.
<ScottK> leonel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings I've put discussing clamav on the agenda for our next MOTU meeting.  You are welcome to join us.
<ScottK> StevenK: Great.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
<xxxxx1> TheMuso: night
<ScottK> Interesting discussion on software patents (Ubuntu gets mentioned) http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070522050029860
<leonel> ScottK: yes  I've  read,  and  I can help  just let me know  what can I do to  accomplish that  job 
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  Do show up at the meeting to discuss as the proposal is going to take community support to make it happen.
<davromaniak> hi everybody
<davromaniak> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5242 <== any MOTU can use a few minutes to review my package please ???
<lucas> davromaniak: you description isn't very well written
<lucas> (both short and long descriptions)
<davromaniak> ah
<lucas> short description doesn't say anything about the timer capabilities, which look important
<davromaniak> ok
<lucas> and sentences in long description never end
<lucas> (no '.')
<davromaniak> :s
<lucas> why is architecture restricted to i386 ?
<lucas> any good reason for this, or should it be 'any' ?
<lucas> or 'all' ?
<lucas> (it looks like it's a java package ?)
<davromaniak> yes
<davromaniak> This will only work on x86 linux because of the swt binaries included
<fernando> moin all
<lucas> davromaniak: azureus is in the same case I think, and is arch:all
<davromaniak> ok
<lucas> ah no it creates elf executables
<davromaniak> I can't find a good description : "Software for scheduled sound recording" is good enough
<davromaniak> yes
<persia> davromaniak: Do you have the source for the awt binaries?  Can it be made to work on other architectures?
<persia> s/awt/swt/
<davromaniak> there is a zip called swtsrc.zip in lib directory
<persia> davromaniak: The package will probably get rejected if there isn't source for everything.
<davromaniak> ok
<davromaniak> I think I will stop packaging this program for universe
<davromaniak> because the developper has gone MIA since september
<persia> davromaniak: At a quick glance, it looks like you might be able to build your .so files during the package compilation if you unpack the .zip file.  If you got this working, it might become arch:all.
<davromaniak> ok, I will take a look
<davromaniak> grrr, there are some errors while compiling
<persia> If something uses gettext, and has a construction like 'printf (_("misspellllling"));', am I correct in assuming that all the translations would break if the spelling was corrected?
<StevenK> They would be marked fuzzy.
<StevenK> "This might be still correct, please check."
<persia> StevenK: I'm thinking of asking for more from bug 64595 to fix that.  Am I correct that the source strings just need to be updated in the .po files?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64595 in nagios-plugins "Mistakes in nagios-plugins strings" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64595
<StevenK> persia: gettext should do that for you.
<StevenK> Along with marking the entries fuzzy.
* persia doesn't want fuzzy entries :(
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'll either go learn more about gettext or ignore this bug.
<geser> gettext will still display the translation even if the source strings doesn't match?
<StevenK> It ought to try. It matches by source location not by string.
<StevenK> persia: There is some awful hairy code in Linda so I can convince her to use gettext. I even have scars!
<Hobbsee> poor StevenK...
<StevenK> Yes, poor me.
<persia> StevenK: I'm not surprised.  I'm almost tempted to give up on dropping wx2.4 for gutsy when looking at newpki-client.
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<pochu> persia: we can remove it too ;)
<persia> pochu: newpki-client?  Why?
<pochu> persia: because it uses wx2.4 and you can't update it to use 2.6 :p
<pochu> </kidding>
* persia volunteers pochu to draft the removal request bug
* pochu doesn't know what that package is for, so it'd be difficult :)
* persia suggests google
<Hobbsee> removal reason:  because i said so
<pochu> Hobbsee: heh :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Does that work?
<pochu> persia: depends who you are :)
<persia> Rationale: Hobbsee said so.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> persia: sometimes.
* persia saw it work for supercollider :)
<pochu> Hobbsee: if you're an archive admin :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> nope, i'm not one of them
<pochu> I know :)
<persia> ScottK: I'm never going to get to the wordpress security issue.  Sorry about that.
<dholbach> What else do we need to get the new Mentoring process rolling?
<dholbach> I'd really like to get it going very very soon, as I'm drowning in Mentoring requests.
<persia> dholbach: The MOTU meeting, wider announcement of the new contact points, volunteers, and some workflow for potential mentors.
<dholbach> persia: right... I added it to the meeting agenda. I'll take care of the announcement, I'd even volunteer for the 'mentoring reception' for the first term
<dholbach> persia: what kind of documentation would help a mentor?
<persia> dholbach: I think that those willing to be mentors would be aided by knowing how to register as a potential mentor, and being encouraged to pick some bugs for mentoring (it has certainly collected me a few interested contributors).
<dholbach> ok great
<dholbach> I'll add something to the proposal
<persia> I think those wishing to be mentored would benefit by knowing where to contact (or being so advised here) to get a mentor assigned, and there being more mentored bugs in LP.
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> we should add that as a task for the Universe HUG DAYs
<dholbach> I'll write some documentation about that too
<persia> I also think that the reception process should be transparent and public, so other parties can see assignments, etc. (and volunteer to help if reception is swamped, as now).
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> that makes sense, the bzr branch will be public - I know that's not really 'easy to use' but will do for the first round
<persia> And the most important thing: do you have volunteers lined up for reception?  A new process won't help too much if it's still your mailbox :)
<dholbach> highvoltage volunteered to do that too
<dholbach> so it'd be the two of us for the first term
<persia> CSV in BZR sounds find to start.  I'm just worried about something like what happened to Debian NM mid-sarge.
<persia> s/find/fine/
<dholbach> what do you mean?
<persia> Having a single person in a role when that person had other responsibilities, and the queue becoming unmanageable.
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> maybe we could have three people in the reception, atm I think that 2 would be good enough
<persia> Also, there was no available information about where in process prospectives were, and so many left because it took too long.
<dholbach> right
<persia> Two sounds plenty, and I'm sure those interested in mentoring will volunteer to help if they aren't receiving contributors fast enough.
<dholbach> that'd be awesome
<persia> dholbach: In the worst case, some of the contributors could be encouraged to help as part of the process of reaching MOTU-hood.
<dholbach> I'll make sure that the announcement will be big enough so we get people within ubuntu{-core,}-dev to help out with that :)
<persia> Sounds great :)
<joejaxx> just great
<joejaxx> now i am in 200 ghost channels on freenode
* dholbach updated the process page again
<shawarma> joejaxx: How so? I'm only allowed to join 20 channels.
<highvoltage> hey there dholbach 
<dholbach> heya highvoltage
<joejaxx> like this
<joejaxx> 10:28 -!- Irssi: #ubuntu-kernel: Total of 0 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices,  0 normal] 
<highvoltage> dholbach: is there anything new I have to do to apply for motu mentorship process? or is that still in discussion?
<shawarma> joejaxx: what the?
<persia> dholbach: I'm still not sure about "hopefuls".  There are probably others like myself who are happy to help out, but don't necessarily hope to become a MOTU.
<joejaxx> shawarma: yeah it happens everytime freenode drops my connection which does not happen that often but stull
<dholbach> highvoltage: we'll have a motu meeting on friday and make the process public after that - are you still up for working on the mentoring reception?
<persia> highvoltage: Come to the MOTU meeting on Friday, and we'll all vote for you to staff reception :)
<joejaxx> s//stull/still/g
<highvoltage> dholbach: absolutely
<dholbach> persia: what are you unsure about?
<dholbach> highvoltage:  ROCK AND ROLL
<highvoltage> dholbach, persia: yes, I will be there!
<dholbach> highvoltage: I'll prod you after the meeting, so if nobody else steps up to work in this team, it'll be the two of us
<persia> dholbach: Nomenclature.  I think "hopefuls" doesn't encourage self-identification.
<dholbach> if you have a better word for that
<dholbach> I'm all ears
<dholbach> I'm no native speaker, so it's a bit hard for me to come up with something new
<dholbach> as much as I like "masters of the universe' and all that, 'thundercats' is not an option
<persia> dholbach: I like "contributors", and there were recommendations on the mailing list, but it might be a side topic for the meeting, if we have time.
<dholbach> I'm happy with contributor
<dholbach> I'll change that
<dholbach> at least in this process document
<persia> That also matches the "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe" LP team, which these people should be encouraged to join, so as to take advantage of REVU.
<dholbach> ok, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/NewMentoring updated again
<highvoltage> dholbach: ok, great
<highvoltage> (sorry for dealy in reply, office people keep pesting me)
<persia> dholbach: Looks good to me.  Thanks for pushing this.
<dholbach> I have high expectations from the process :-)
<highvoltage> dholbach: I think you timed out before my reply, yes, that sounds good!
<dholbach> highvoltage: super
<joejaxx> does anyone see a need for a CA in ubuntu?
<persia> joejaxx: Do you mean Certificate Authority?  I thought we had a couple already.
<joejaxx> hmm interesting
<pochu> dholbach: didn't siretart also step up for the reception?
<dholbach> he said he'd do it if nobody else did, but he wanted to mentor for sure
<pochu> ok, didn't remember well :)
<persia> joejaxx: http://cat.org.au/node/138 is the best HOWTO I can find right now, but there are probably others.  I don't think we have a GUI packaged, so it's not yet trivial.
<joejaxx> persia: i was actually thinking about OpenCA
<persia> joejaxx: If you want to maintain it, I don't think it would hurt, but I believe the value of something like OpenCA is more in the web of trust surrounding the primary authority than in the software that allows for local authorities.  If each Ubuntu user has their own CA, there is no trust.
<joejaxx> persia: yes of course but OpenCA is not trivial to run nor to configure even after it has been packaged
<persia> joejaxx: Is it easier or better than just using the openssl command line utilities?
<joejaxx> persia: it has a web frontend
<joejaxx> ldap support
<persia> joejaxx: In that case, in the spirit of making things easier and better, by all means, package it :)
<dholbach> highvoltage: http://launchpad.net/~motu-mentoring-reception
<highvoltage> dholbach: just got the mail ;)
<dholbach> brb
<ScottK> persia: Maybe you could stick one of your aspiring mentees with the wordpress issues.
<ScottK> joejaxx: There is a Python CA that's already packaged.
<joejaxx> ScottK: yeah pyca
<persia> ScottK: I'm not that familiar with the security update process - I've only filed one SRU, and testing is going badly.  I'm not sure I'd be the best mentor for that (I probably need one myself :)).
* ScottK has used that successfully to roll my own mail server TLS certs
<joejaxx> ScottK: :)
<ScottK> persia: You get someone to do the heavy lifting and I'll mentor you on security.
<persia> ScottK: Hrm.  I'll see if one of them is interested in PHP.
<ScottK> persia: Great. 
<siretart> highvoltage: dholbach: yay for motu-reception :)
<persia> siretart: What do you think about having motu-reception administer ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<dholbach> siretart: I think I'll ask for more comments (like blockers we see at the moment) on ubuntu-motu@ rather than discussing it in the meeting
<dholbach> then we can get rolling quickly
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> persia: don't the ubuntu-universe-contributors also have to take care of REVU and stuff?
<siretart> persia: so that motu-reception can add members? - seems sane to me
<dholbach> then it'd be nice to have another somebody in the team :)
<persia> dholbach: They don't take care of anything: it's just a gateway group to be allowed to upload to REVU.  I'd think anyone reaching motu-reception should be added to the team.
<siretart> hm. the team is open anyway. we might want to change that. - well, I think that should be up to motu-council/reception
<siretart> anyway, I'm off for home, cu in a few hours
<dholbach> see you siretart
<persia> I think ubuntu-universe-contributors is an open team - people just need to be pointed there.
<dholbach> yeah, let's discuss that somewhere
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> SaneWikiDocumentation2007!
<persia> Is this a new spec?
<dholbach> it should be
<dholbach> and assigned to everybody in ubuntu-dev :)
<persia> Are any of the contributors lurking here interested in documentation?  The MOTU wiki needs a lot of help, and it would be a great way to learn the best practices of the MOTU team.
<konam_> hi, someone knows how to create a .deb package of a theme?
<dholbach> konam_: try checking out https://code.launchpad.net/example-look
<PriceChild> woo persia just got your patch, gonna check it works for me then do my best to sort out the rest... *cringes at the COPYING*
<persia> PriceChild: heh.
<konam_> dholbach how can that help me
<konam_> ?
<dholbach> konam_: if you check out the branch it contains an example packaging for a theme
<PriceChild> persia, ah... well that file doesn't say it applies to anything does it... and afaik no other files say they are gpl'd... although probably best I check that.
<konam_> dholbach i have to be registered?
<dholbach> konam_: no
<dholbach> konam_: the people in #ubuntu-artwork can help you with that too
<persia> PriceChild: You probably want to check all the files.  They should all have a header (either GPL or Apache).  As far as I can see, most of the source is Apache (as is upstream debian/), but the GPL is included for some reason.  Tim needs to fix that.
<konam_> dholbach they redirected me to here
<konam_> :S
<dholbach> konam_: bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
<konam_> dholbach i dont see the branch thing
<dholbach> konam_: kwwii should be able to help you
<PriceChild> persia, indeedy, I guess its just a template he used for most of the files that just happenned to include that file to persuade him to use GPL :)
<konam_> dholbach i cant see the last link.....
<dholbach> konam_: just run the command
<dholbach> bzr checkout http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/example-look/dev
<persia> PriceChild: Looking further, I think you need the GPL, as aclocal.m4 and the like are GPL, but with exceptions that allow unlimited distribution.  You just need to fix debian/copyright.
<PriceChild> Ah ok... so just name the files that are GPL'd. And because they allow unlimited distribution there's no need to worry about incompatability
<persia> PriceChild: I think so.  Check everything to be sure (I only checked a few files).
<PriceChild> will do thanks :)
<konam_> dholbach nothing happen
<dholbach> konam_: do you have a dev directory now?
<konam_> dholbach yes
<dholbach> konam_: that's where the branch has been checked out to
<konam_> dholbach and........
<highvoltage> siretart: yay! :)
* highvoltage is back from work now
<PriceChild> persia, wooo the patch works :) Now for the fun bit.
<persia> sending it upstream?
<dholbach> konam_: what do you mean by "and.........."?
<konam_> dholbach i mean, how can that help me with the creation of the .deb package, i dont get it, sorry
<PriceChild> persia, yeah I'll email that now :)
<konam_> can you explain me what to do in that directory
<dholbach> konam_: basically installing devscripts and running debuild -us -uc will build the package for you
<dholbach> konam_: but to adjust it to your theme you will have to do changes you have to figure out yourself
<dholbach> konam_: that's just an example artwork package
<konam_> dholbach ok, got it :)
<dholbach> konam_: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html has a basic packaging guide - it might help you
<konam_> thanks
<konam_> :)
<dholbach> np
<PriceChild> persia, I'm confused by your points 3&4
<PriceChild> persia, isn't it libGizmod.so.3 that is the symlink... and that's included in libgizmod not -dev
<persia> PriceChild: When I built it, and looked at the contents, both -dev packages contained a symlink for the .so files, but didn't include the .so files.  The same symlink was also contained in the library packages.
<PriceChild> this is usr/lib/libGizmod.so.3 ?
<persia> PriceChild: The link, but not the file.  Try `dpkg --contents libh-dev_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb`, and look at the last line.
<PriceChild> persia, yeah... and libh_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb contaisn that file?
<PriceChild> Or am I extremely confused...? :S
<PriceChild> ahh...
<PriceChild> wait no yeah... :S
<persia> PriceChild: Right.  You're shipping the symlink twice.
<PriceChild> Ahhh... I'm with you, but in the first one its libH.so and in the second its libH.so.3
* PriceChild wonders which one to not use
<PriceChild> Right ok Im' happy now
<persia> PriceChild: Sorry.  I didn't read carefully enough.  You probably want both, but they should be in the library packages, not the -dev packages.
<PriceChild> So I don't include the libH.so from the -dev package
<PriceChild> oh...
<PriceChild> But http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html says otherwise S:
<dabaR> Is there an Ubuntu release for the hppa architecture?
<PriceChild> On that document in section one it says that the symlink libfoo.so.X  is in the lib, and in section 2 it mentions that the -dev includes usr/lib/*.so
<persia> PriceChild: Right.  Sorry.  Ignore 3 & 4.
<PriceChild> cool :)
<dabaR> I see there is a package called bootcd-hppa and I do not think there is at all an Ubuntu-hppa. 
<persia> Does anyone see any reason why Ubuntu distributed webboard shouldn't use http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org by default instead of http://pastebin.com ?
<dabaR> Is it distributed by debian as well?
<Lutin> dabaR: not afaik
<dabaR> what is the version number?
<Lutin> 0.2.1-0ubuntu3
<PriceChild> persia, about the libvisual... the soname is actor_gizmod.so but I'm unsure as to what to name the package seen as you can't have _s ?
* persia looks at policy again
<dabaR> Lutin: if you see 0ubuntuX that means it is not in Ubuntu. The 0 before Ubuntu tells you that.
<lionel> There is a port of Ubuntu on hppa
<lionel> see ports.ubuntu.com
<Lutin> dabaR: 0ubuntuX means not in debian _or_ package which is in debian, but has a newer upstream version in ubuntu, _or_ package which is both in ubuntu and debian but are totally different
<joejaxx> dabaR: yes
<joejaxx> dabaR: wait
<joejaxx> dabaR: do you mean a hppa port? or actual installation cds
<joejaxx> there is a hppa port
<dabaR> joejaxx: I mean whether it makes sense at all to have hppa specific packages, and I think that was answered.
<dabaR> What about a package taht is for ia-64? Is it also for amd64?
<dabaR> lionel, joejaxx: thank you.
<joejaxx> dabaR: if you look on packages.ubuntu.com it will tell you what arches the package is built for
<dabaR> joejaxx: I see ia64 on some, and amd64 on some; are they not interchangeable?
<joejaxx> it depends if the code was not written to run on a certain arch it will not be built for it
<joejaxx> example: yaboot
<joejaxx> that is only built for powerpc
<persia> PriceChild: Can you think of any reason why any package other than gizmod would want to link aganst libvisual?  If not, just don't ship the .a files, and you don't need a new package.
<dabaR> I am trying to fix a bug in a package called bootcd. It builds several arch-specific packages, the specific one the bug is in
<PriceChild> persia, I'm reasonably sure it provides things for amarok... I can't think of any reason for others but that's out of lack of experience.
<PriceChild> persia, and about the library names... yeah that was silly and it should be libgizmod3 and libh3 but then the -dev names should change to libgizmod3-dev and libh3-dev as well shouldn't they?
<dabaR> I am trying to fix a bug in a package called bootcd. It builds several arch-specific packages, the specific one the bug is in is ia64. The bug is in that the dependency for bootcd-ia64 is elilo ia64. Which is only built for i386 in Ubuntu. I see debian has the ia64 package. How should I go about this fix? I suppose I am supposed to get all the packages from debian and test whether they all build fine in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> dabaR: Figuring out why Ubuntu only builds it for i386 and rectifying that problem would seem the cleanest path from what you say.
<joejaxx> dabaR: you need to
<joejaxx> what ScottK said :)
<dabaR> It did not contain specific instructions ;)
<persia> PriceChild: Sorry, I meant link against /usr/lib/libvisual-0.4/actor/actor_gizmod.so.  I think the .a and .la files can be dropped, as I don't think any other application needs to link against gizmod's plugin.  Dropping these means not having another package (.a files are only supposed to be in -dev packages).
<dabaR> contact the person that last worked on elilo in Ubuntu?
<PriceChild> persia, Ok cool and the .so stays in that package.
<joejaxx> interesting
<joejaxx> the control file for elilo says that it is supposed to buld it
<persia> PriceChild: -dev package names should not generally have sonames.  That way a package can build-depend on the latest -dev, and get the latest version.
<joejaxx> build*
<joejaxx> which means the package would be in ports
<ScottK> dabaR: According to LP, elilo built for IA64 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elilo/3.6-2ubuntu2
<PriceChild> persia, right ok... so we don't listen to that document on this one.
<joejaxx> bootcd-ia64 should probably be in ports
<joejaxx> because it is assuming it is in the same repository
<joejaxx> debian does not have a "ports" repository
<joejaxx> all the arches are in one repository
<persia> PriceChild: The library isn't likely to be used by enough packages that both versions need to be maintained in the archives simultaneously, hence libgizmod-dev.  For libraries everyone uses, libfoo2-dev is better, so that multiple versions can exist simultaneously while a transition happens.
<PriceChild> persia, ok sounds good thanks :)
<dabaR> Is ports checked to see whether a package is there by default?
<dabaR> geser: Are you here?
<joejaxx> ScottK: how would this be handled?
<leonel> do you know if there's an   openjdk  team ?
<leonel> can't find any
<ScottK> joejaxx: How would what be handled?
<dabaR> joejaxx, ScottK: The bug I am chasing is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bootcd/+bug/96365
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 96365 in bootcd "[UNMETDEPS]  bootcd has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<ScottK> dabaR: What would an ia64 boot CD be an arch all package?
<ScottK> What/why
<bddebian> Heya gang
<ScottK> Heya bddebian.
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> bddebian: nixternal did courier yesterday...
<bddebian> I saw
<ScottK> It was a good learning experience ...
<persia> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi persia
<joejaxx> ScottK: the problem is we have two archives
<ScottK> We do?
<joejaxx> and bootcd-ia64 exists in archive.ubuntu
<joejaxx> ScottK: yeap
<joejaxx> ports.ubuntu
<joejaxx> and archive.ubuntu
<dabaR> ScottK: All the arch specific packages are done as architecture all in the control file of bootcd. If it was done as arch specific in the control file, would I not be able to see the packages dfor the other arches?
<joejaxx> so bootcd-ia64 exists in archive.ubuntu while the ia64 version of elilo does not
<ScottK> Hmmm, I just run i386, so I had no idea.
<persia> bddebian: I'm seeing lots of bugs in the UUS queue that have patches, but not debdiffs.  Did you intend to upload these at some point, or is this just a change of workflow over time?
<dabaR> joejaxx: elilo does not seem to exist in the ports either.
<ScottK> According to LP it was successfully built.
<joejaxx> elilo is built for ia64
<dabaR> You can see it in the ports?
<ScottK> dabaR: See the link I gave you above.  
<dabaR> I looked in Universe for ports, and it was not in the packages.gz list, so I figured it is not realy there.
<ScottK> It sounds to me more and more like you have an archive management problem, but a bug in a package problem.
<joejaxx> Elilo for ia64 is in the main component of ports.ubuntu
<dabaR> THank you.
<dabaR> So it seems that the control file is the one that has the bug? Do you agree
<joejaxx> all needs to be changed to ia64 i believe
<joejaxx> since the archives are split up
<dabaR> ScottK: When you search for bootcd in your package manager, do you see all the arches and should not be seeing them?
<joejaxx> 'all' to 'ia64'
<ScottK> dabaR: No, I was looking at geser's last comment on the bug.
<joejaxx> for the package specification for bootcd-ia64 in the control file
<dabaR> ScottK: Im sorry, I do not understand what you mean by no.
<dabaR> joejaxx: I am trying to figure out whether it should be done only for the ia64 version, or for all the arch specific packages(i386, hppa)
<joejaxx> it would have to be done for all the arches in ports
<ScottK> dabaR: You asked if I saw all archs in my package manager.  My answer was no.  I didn't look.  I was questioning arch all based on the last comment in the bug.
<joejaxx> gah
<joejaxx> only ia64 nevermind
<ScottK> There are arch for which elilo FTBFS, but IA64 isn't one of them.
<PriceChild> persia, about the files which are "GPL'd"... do I really have to mention them in debian/copyright? Because they all say that if you include a file generated by autoconf (ie. aclocal.m4) then you get to distribute them however you want... or do I have to mention that I am allowed to distribute them because of this special exception?
* ScottK is just happy the IA64 buildd's are running again so maybe I can close some things off my TODO list.
<dabaR> OK, to shorten the discussion...I have spoken with the maintainer before. I can ask him what he thinks. Would that be the best thing to do?
<ScottK> Sounds reasonable to me.
<ScottK> You're likely to get better advice there than from random people here that aren't familiar with the package (like me).
<dabaR> Thank you guys!
<persia> PriceChild: My understanding is that you need to document the license of any files distributed in the package.  At least in the case of aclocal.m4, the header appears to grant broad usage, modification, and distribution rights, but does not appear to grant the right to relicense the file.
<PriceChild> persia, ok so I should just list every file that is copyright the fsf the other files all seem to give unlimited rights.
<persia> PriceChild: That sounds OK to me, but be sure to check carefully.  Copyright is one of the biggest reason for archive admins to reject packages.
<PriceChild> persia, hehe will do.
<ScottK> PriceChild: Seem to is unlikely to go through IMO.  Put yourself in the mind frame of the archive admin who is responsible to make sure Ubuntu never gets accused to distributing stuff it doesn't have the legal right to distribute.
<welshbyte> oh wow, there's a debian RFS for Frets On Fire, that's amazing :)
* welshbyte keeps his fingers crossed
<bddebian> persia: Sorry, got pulled into a meeting.  What was your question?
<PriceChild> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22011/ How's that?
<persia> bddebian: No worries.  I'm just reviewing the really old UUS bugs to reduce the queue, and noticed a bunch that contained simple patches, but not debdiffs that you had subscribed in February and March.  I wondered if you planned to upload them, or if it was an artifact of the developing workflow for UUS.
<persia> PriceChild: Great.  I'll take a look in a bit.
<persia> PriceChild: Sorry.  I misread your link.  That looks OK to me, but you'd do best to get confirmation from someone with more experience with debian/copyright files.
<bddebian> persia: I was trying to upload some of them but feel free :-)
<persia> bddebian: OK.  I'll chalk it up as an artifact then, and either upload or unsub requesting more input, depending on the status of the patch.  Thanks.
* somerville32 is finally out of the hospital (hopefully) for good.
<bddebian> persia: Esssentially I was was trying to do the same thing, clean up old stuff :-)
* persia wonders if there shouldn't be a virtual team that bugsquad subscribes to bugs with patches, for contributors to turn into debdiffs before subscribing to UUS.
<ScottK> Congratulations somerville32
* somerville32 cheers.
<ScottK> persia: Why not just a tag for patches.
<PriceChild> wooo somerville32 :D
<nixternal> oi oi
<persia> ScottK: We have that.  Perhaps we just need to point people at it.
<ScottK> Yes.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Thanks.
<hsitter> should I mind about --W: kwin-style-flatknifty source: changelog-should-mention-nmu-- ?
<nixternal> no
<nixternal> only way to get rid of that is become the Debian Maintainer or Ubuntu Maintainer which we don't do, or add NMU to the first line in the changelog, which we don't do...so just nevermind the nmu stuff
<bddebian> hsitter: Ignore that one
<hsitter> ok, thx
<persia> Good night all
<hsitter> bddebian: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5245 adapted according to mr_pouit's comment
<dabaR> I am trying to fix bug #116222 I have created a .desktop file, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22020/. This is the first time I am doing this, so please look it over and make suggestions.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116222 in smart "Smart launcher not added to Menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116222
<Loic> Hi
<Loic> I still have a problem with a SRU
<Loic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/84705
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  
<Loic> I think I've done all I could to get it done, and the change is really trivial, but even though it's been in proposed for a few weeks and tested, it still doesn't appear in the repos
<LaserJock> Loic: well, it eventually needs to go into -updates
<Loic> How do we do that?
<LaserJock> Loic: follow the Stable Release Updates procedure
<PriceChild> I need to write a man page... any preferred documentation that I should be looking at?
<fernando> PriceChild: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/qref/writing_man_pages.html http://www.google.com =)
<Flannel> PriceChild: a good dictionary/thesaurus might be a good reference as well
* Flannel </silliness>
<PriceChild> Yeah I found my current one from google too. I'll just use whatever works, but I like yours better :P
<PriceChild> Flannel, what did i misspell? :)
<Flannel> PriceChild: nothing, I wasn't implying you did
* PriceChild is confused, shrugs and continues :)
<Lutin> could someone tell me what's the difference beween libboost_regex-mt.so and libboost_regex-st.so ?
<lfittl> Lutin, single threaded and multi threaded versions
<Lutin> lfittl: thanks :)
<PriceChild> Right a manpage made... :)
<bddebian> Joy :-)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I'm currently looking at Bug #95775.  Based on the package description for python-scipy-core and the information in the bug, it looks like python-scipy should not conflct/replace python-scipy-core.  I'm going to look into the source, but since you've been active on python-scipy, I thought I'd check and see if you knew/had an opinion.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95775 in python-scipy "python-scipy does not included scipy_distutils and it conflicts with python-scipy-core" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95775
* PriceChild wonders how to install the man page.
<ASCIIGirl> PriceChild, dh_installman debian/yourmanpage.x
<PriceChild> I'm using cdbs so I guess I can just plonk the man page in debian/ and it'll work then?
<ASCIIGirl> PriceChild, Im not very used to cdbs..let me check (/me loves dh_*)
<PriceChild> I'm trying now :)
<PriceChild> Thanks.
<ASCIIGirl> np
<ScottK> PriceChild: If you get the source for pyspf and look it it's debian/rules then you'll see it.
<PriceChild> ok cool thanks
<stijn_pol> Hello, I am using sbuild on lvm volume and I am getting following error: Required device-mapper target(s) not detected in your kernel. Any ideas??
<stijn_pol> ok, problem solved with: sudo modprobe dm_snapshot
<Loic> I've followed the MOUT-SRU for package xvidcore (see Lanchpad Bug #84705) but the package still hasn't been added to feisty-updates. Can anybody point me what I should do now?
<Loic> I've done Modify the verification-motu-needed tag to a verification-motu-done
<Loic> and "Ensure that the ubuntu-sru team is subscribed."
<Loic> But still nothing
<LaserJock> well, how long has it been since you changed the tag?
<Loic> more than one week
<LaserJock> and how long has ubuntu-sru been subscribed? about the same time?
<Loic> a bit less
<ScottK> One possibility is that pitti normally does stuff like this on Friday.  He uploaded a bunch of stuff last Friday, but may not have gotten it all because the week before he was at UDS and nothing got uploaded the week before.
<ScottK> So it may just be he's running behind.
<Loic> last week, maybe thursday
<Loic> ok
<ScottK> LaserJock: Are you familiar with the python-scipy package?
<Loic> Another question :) I uploaded a diff for gutsy (same package, same bug, same fix), do I have to do anything special since it's been uploaded to the page with the SRU for feisty?
<LaserJock> ScottK: a bit
<LaserJock> it's one of the few packages I actually use ;-)
<ScottK> OK.  It currently conflicts with python-scipy-core, but that looks wrong to me.
<ajmitch> morning
<ScottK> I'm looking at Bug #97575
<LaserJock> it's messy business
<ScottK> Morning ajmitch
<LaserJock> python-scipy-core has been replaced with python-numpy
<ScottK> Oops, wrong number
<joejaxx> Goodmorning ajmitch 
<ScottK> OK.
<LaserJock> bug #95775
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84705 in xvidcore "[Feisty]  libxvidcore missing dependency for yasm for i386 arch : more than 3 times slower than in edgy" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84705
<LaserJock> umm
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 97575 in restricted-manager "restricted-manager doesn't list my nvidia GeForce Go 7400 (dup-of: 93209)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/97575
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93209 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 "Please ship proper modaliases for nvidia, fglrx & co" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93209
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95775 in python-scipy "python-scipy does not included scipy_distutils and it conflicts with python-scipy-core" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/95775
<ScottK> That one...
<LaserJock> hmm, well ok ;-)
<LaserJock> oh wait, is it TB right now?
<ScottK> Looking at the scipy/scipy-core source it's clear that scipy does not in fact replace scipy.  Looking at numpy now then.
<ScottK> TB?
<ScottK> LaserJock: From a quick look I do not see the distutils tools from scipy-core in numpy.
<LaserJock> have you checked upstream?
<ScottK> Not yet
<ScottK> From looking in the packages it looks like the (for example) disutils stuff in numpy is less than in scipy-core.
<LaserJock> that very well could be
<LaserJock> they overhauled a lot going from scipy-core to numpy
<ScottK> So it looks then like instead of scipy conflicting with scipy-core, numpy should conflict/replace scipy-core
<ScottK> And then one wonders why we don't just do a removal for scipy-core?
<ScottK> Hmmm
<LaserJock> I guess for legacy reasons
<ScottK> Hmmm
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody else feel like this core-dev policy is a bit of a burden on the MC
<ajmitch> it's what we're paid to do, right?
<LaserJock> lol
<ScottK> Volunteer as much time for it as you feel appropriate.
<TheMuso> Hey al.,
<TheMuso> all
<pochu> Hey TheMuso! :)
<nixternal> if you need help, call me...my number is ->  nixternal: ping!
<nixternal> I have a bloody nose so give me 10 minutes :) I am in a packaging mood
<crimsun> lies, you're just attempting to fix your broken Vista install.  Again.
<nixternal> I know, I head>desk with my Vista box and broke my nose
<bddebian> heh
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<dabaR> I am trying to create a .desktop file in relation to bug #116222. I have created a draft at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22026/. Can someone review and advise, please?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116222 in smart "Smart launcher not added to Menu" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116222
<crimsun> don't hard-code paths for icons
<crimsun> Icon=/usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/smart.png  <--
<crimsun> either use its existing icon in /usr/share/pixmaps/  _without_ the absolute path, or adjust the packaging (debian/rules or debian/foo.install) to install its icon into /usr/share/pixmaps/
<crimsun> e.g., Icon=smart.png
<crimsun> in fact, in most instances you can simply omit the extension (Icon=smart)
* crimsun ->dinner
<dabaR> I thought that may be an issue. Would a patch to debian/rules be to add mv /usr/share/pycentral/smartpm/site-packages/smart/interfaces/images/smart.png /usr/share/pixmaps/ to the build install rule?
<imbrandon> dabaR, no debian/<package>.install would be better
<dabaR> imbrandon: that would contain that exact text?
<imbrandon> no
<dabaR> That would contain /usr/share/pixmaps/smart.png?
<dabaR> As the only line in it.
<imbrandon> probably not, i havent looked at the package
<dabaR> Well, bootcd-i386.install in the bootcd package contains 2 lines with absolute paths, that is why I figured.
<imbrandon> man dh_install will tell you the useage
<dabaR> And then I can try building the package, and test myself, OK, good idea.
<dabaR> Where does a .desktop file go? into debian?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-23
<pochu> dabaR: to /usr/share/applications/
<dabaR> pochu: I meant in the source package.
<dabaR> ... directory structure.
<pochu> Night MOTUs and MOTU padawans! :)
<dabaR> night.
<pochu> dabaR: doesn't matter. It can be in debian/, or in data/
<pochu> or in other places.
<dabaR> OK, thank you.
<pochu> yw
<persia> dabaR: When adding new files, it's best to put them in debian/ if possible.  This makes the distribution patches only be to one directory, and it's easier to see what is local and what is upstream.
<dabaR> persia: do you know exactly what to do with a <package>.install to make one of its files install to a specific directory?
<nixternal> plucker is garbage
<nixternal> if we merge from Debian, it is a useless cause for GUI users
<LaserJock> dabaR: you should read some up in the Ubuntu Packaging Guide or Debian New Maintainers Guide
<LaserJock> or even look at a program you know has one
<dabaR> OK, I guess shortcuts are bad:)
<dabaR> I will do this later, thanks.
<LaserJock> well no, it's a matter of teaching you where to go for these things
<LaserJock> the general syntax is:
<LaserJock> file.desktop usr/share/applications/
<LaserJock> where file.desktop is the path to the desktop in the source
<persia> nixternal: :)
<nixternal> hrmm..so if I(we) do this merge, there will be no plucker-desktop...good news is I can close one bug though by adding a patch :)
<nixternal> plucker is dead
<persia> nixternal: You can also mark the wx2.4Migration done, as it doesn't have a GUI anymore.  Are you sure you don't want to move to a snapshot?
<nixternal> a snapshot of what?
<nixternal> there hasn't been any dev work to plucker for 2 years now
<nixternal> unless they are working somewhere top secret
<nixternal> I am going to give that patch a try
<nixternal> actually, I am going to eat, and then hack on plucker
<persia> nixternal: http://www.plkr.org/snapshots/plucker_snapshot.tar.gz  I took a CVS snapshot for freqtweak (with similar lack of work for years) and it looks better - upstream just never released the final version.
<nixternal> hrmm..ya I might give that a try then..thanks for that!
<ajmitch> hey jml 
<jml> ajmitch: good morning
<lionel> TheMuso: arround ?
<TheMuso> lionel: Yes.
<lionel> I checked my patch, and it works here :-(
<TheMuso> What version of the package are you patching against?
<lionel> which version of wu-ftpd did you use ?
<TheMuso> The one from sid.
<lionel> Debian version 2.6.2-26
<lionel> (grab from DaD)
<TheMuso> ah no.
<lionel> ah...
<TheMuso> sorry, my fault.
<lionel> you dget .dsc ?
<lionel> no problem :)
<TheMuso> lionel: Uploaded.
<lionel> TheMuso: thanks!
<PriceChild> Hey persia, uploaded a new one which I think will fix "hopefully" everything.
<persia> PriceChild: Thanks a lot.  Looking now...
<pschulz01> Morning.. question.. how do I use the <packagename>.install files properly?
<TheMuso> pschulz01: What build system is being used to build the package?
<pschulz01> I have a multi-binary package/control file.
<pschulz01> I have used 'dh_make' to set everything up.
<pschulz01> Howdy TheMuso !
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Did you explicitly tell dh_make to use cdbs?
<pschulz01> ? no
<TheMuso> If not, you are using debhelper. To use the .install files, you need to use dh_install.
<TheMuso> Which goes in the install target.
<TheMuso> It will read all *.install files and do its thing.
<TheMuso> the manpage tells you how to make a .install file.
<pschulz01> The dh_install man page talks about building and copying from debian/tmp
<TheMuso> Yes.
<TheMuso> Thats what .install files are for.
<pschulz01> .. but I get debian/<name-of-first-binary-package>
<TheMuso> You run make install or whatever into a temporary location, then you use dh_install to move everything into the proper packages.
<TheMuso> so make install DESTDIR=debian/tmp and then dh_install does the rest, using the files in debian/tmp.
* TheMuso tries to think of a package you can look at that does the same thing.
<pschulz01> The source uses the GNU auto tools..
<TheMuso> But you said that it was a multi-binary package?
<pschulz01> So I use './configure --prefix=/usr'
<TheMuso> RAOF: Hey there. Just took care of your pyinotify merge.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: That should have already been done for you in debian/rules.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yay.
<LaserJock> I got a quick shell problem, I've got a directory full of files with spaces in the names, how can I get rid of the spaces?
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Well. there were a whole lot of other options that were messing things up.. (architecture etc.)
<StevenK> LaserJock: qmv 
<TheMuso> LaserJock: for file in *; do mv "$file" `echo "$file" | tr ' ' '_'`; done
<StevenK> TheMuso: Learn about $()
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Right.
<RAOF> And I've almost got a Sid VM so I can check that the python-versions bug applies to Debian!
<TheMuso> StevenK: ??
<pschulz01> I want to spilt the result of the build into a collection of packages, and the *.install' files seem to be be the most sensible method.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Is that more posix compliant or something?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: hmm, that gave me a whole lot of _. I was trying to compress the names
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Oh.
<StevenK> TheMuso: $() can be nested. ` can't.
<TheMuso> Well instead of tr ' ' '_' you could do tr -d ' '
<TheMuso> StevenK: Aaaaah!
<LaserJock> TheMuso: genius!!
<alfredoj69> :)
<pschulz01> I'll be back later..
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Cheers.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: np.
<TheMuso> Ok... That clears the merge qeue for now.
<persia> Hurrah!
<TheMuso> persia: You on uus and the ml for it yet?
<persia> TheMuso: UUS, but not the ML.  I subscribe to the bugs I touch, and use LP to pick new ones.
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<persia> I like bugmail, but not for things I haven't looked at yet, and might never touch.
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<TheMuso> I'm on a few teams, so I am kinda used to it now.
<TheMuso> Just got to work out a way of filtering team email that is not going to an ML.
<persia> TheMuso: So far, none of my teams subscribe me to bugs :)  Is there any non-bugmail on the UUS ML?
<TheMuso> persia: No.
<nixternal> hrmm...quick question here...I have a file 'pluck-comics.py.in' and instead of #!/usr/bin/python it has @PYTHON@..is this cool, or should it be changed to #!/usr/bin/python?
<ajmitch> ok, another merge down, hopefully this one isn't as broken as the last :)
<nixternal> #!@PYTHON@ to be exact
<ajmitch> nixternal: that's why it's an .in, but it means it'll end up hardcoding a specific python version
<ajmitch> depending on what @PYTHON@ resolves to
<nixternal> OK, so I should go ahead and make a patch to do #!/usr/bin/python instead
<ajmitch> depends on the above ^^
<persia> nixternal: .in files are usually processed by ./configure, so it is likely replaced.  On the other hand, I thought we recommended #!/usr/bin/env python instead (which would be used for the value of PYTHON for configure).
<nixternal> well, the 1.8 is patched to remove #!/usr/bin/python2.2 and replace it with #!/usr/bin/python
<persia> nixternal: But 1.9 uses @PYTHON@ instead of #!/usr/bin/python2.2?
<nixternal> I am working on the snapshot, which has a lot of changes/updates to it..I was surprised actually
<nixternal> persia: yes
<RAOF> persia: #!/usr/bin/env python is annoying, because the script shows up as "python2.5" in process views, rather than "foo".
<nixternal> if we keep the @PYTHON@ then we can drop a patch
<StevenK> RAOF: /usr/bin/env is doubly annoying because $LUSER might have python1.5 installed as /usr/local/bin/python
<persia> nixternal: I recommend either digging through the build process to change the variables, or building it to see what you get, and if it's not correctly, searching for it in the original source and patching it there, rather than replacing @PYTHON@.
<RAOF> Oh, really? And env will pick that up in preference to our shiny new python2.5?
<nixternal> persia: roger!
<StevenK> env goes by $PATH only.
* persia has been disabused.  Thank you.
<StevenK> And based on our path, /usr/local/bin trumps both /usr/bin and /bin.
<StevenK> Our default $PATH, I should say.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Has anyone dealt with your main upload?
<TheMuso> StevenK: No.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Would you like me to?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Only if you have a minute.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I'm happy to wait otherwise, no rush.
<StevenK> Yeah, it's no problem.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Can you clag the bug number so I don't have to dig?
<TheMuso> StevenK: SUre. Bug 116167
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116167 in gnome-speech "Please merge gnome-speech 1:0.4.12-3ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116167
<TheMuso> 2nd debdiff.
<StevenK> Right. Looking now.
<TheMuso> Anyway, afk for a bit.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Your debdiff looks to remove control.in, is that intended?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Also, why did you bin the Uploaders field?
<Hobbsee> morning all
<RAOF> Mornin Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<persia> Good morning
<Hobbsee> :)
<persia> PriceChild: Getting much closer, but I found a few things left :)
<PriceChild> hehe :)
<PriceChild> I just noticed i still have COPYING and wondered what to do about it.
<keescook> dang. my optical mouse just stopped working.
<PriceChild> Time for bed now though I'm afraid :(
<persia> PriceChild: I don't know.  I think you need COPYING for the GPL content, but it doesn't provide a good overview for COPYING the package.  Perhaps NOTICE needs to be updated?  But that's really an upstream thing.
<keescook> not even the red light works
<Hobbsee> keescook: i thought mice were overrated for you terminal lovers?
<persia> PriceChild: When you have time (tomorrow maybe), ask here for someone strong with copyright to look at the package.  They may be able to provide better advice.
<PriceChild> Ok thanks.
<PriceChild> thanks for reviewing it again, have a good day! :)
<keescook> Hobbsee: my work day just ended, I was gonna go play the BSG demo.  :P
<Hobbsee> haha
<keescook> I can't chase the cylons with my marble mouse, so I plugged in my (previously) trusty optical mouse, and... nothin'.
* Hobbsee wonders what a marble mouse is
* Hobbsee googles
<StevenK> It's a brand.
<keescook> marble, like, the ball is a marble I roll around with my thumb
<Hobbsee> oh right, where you move the trackball
<keescook> trackball! that's it.  yup.  I sure know how to use my words.
* StevenK chuckles.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> it's the lack of beer
<persia> Does anyone know the name of the KDE menu editing tool offhand?
<Hobbsee> kmenuedit
<nixternal> kmenuedit
<nixternal> jynx
<persia> Hobbsee: nixternal: Thanks.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: beat you.  try not to use pointyclicky vista and forget how to type
<nixternal> jynx jynx double jynx
<persia> nixternal: Not quite - the timestamps won't match in the logs.
* Hobbsee ducks
<nixternal> they match here
<nixternal> 19:39:08 [ nixternal]  kmenuedit                                                                  buxy
<nixternal> 19:39:08 [   Hobbsee]  kmenuedit
<nixternal> sorry buxy...silly irssi
<persia> nixternal's clocks must have different microseconds then mine.  Do you use ntp?
<StevenK> Hobbsee wins here.
<nixternal> yup
<StevenK> Neither one of you can claim they win since most clients print the line before sending it.
* Hobbsee wins, just due to being Hobbsee.  duh.
<StevenK> Heh
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm also interested in what you have to say about my clamav proposal for Friday's meeting.  Are you going to be there?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'll be there
<crimsun> superm1: did you fix the FSF address in COPYING?
<superm1> yes crimsun 
<superm1> i uploaded it this morning before work
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Great.
<crimsun> ok, I'll once-over upid=5244 now.
<superm1> ok wonderful.  thanks :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i'd have to read the mail again, but the idea of keeping the newest in the repos under a different name is smart
<ScottK> Thanks.
<crimsun>   mythbuntu-artwork-usplash_0.1_source.changes: done.
<crimsun> Successfully uploaded packages.
<crimsun> archived on REVU.
<superm1> Thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> thank _you_ :-)
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> I guess I should upload this merge, it appears to actually work 
<StevenK> ajmitch: Which?
<ajmitch> python-ldap
* StevenK had fun with pycairo last night.
<ajmitch> since I said I'd take some of doko's merges since he did a lot of -dbg additions
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> can't be as fun as pygobject
<StevenK> I'm so not touching gobject.
<ajmitch> I did, and I broke it good
<StevenK> Heh
* RAOF likes cairo.  How did pycairo go?
<ajmitch> python-pam is my next target
<StevenK> RAOF: Oh it wasn't bad, just a lot of Ubuntu changes, a lot of Debian changes, and a shedload of upstream changes. All blended together.
<RAOF> Wheee!
<ajmitch> python-ldap was fairly easy
<StevenK> The debdiff on patches.u.c for pycairo was a shade under half a meg.
<ajmitch> python-gobject was a mess
<ajmitch> 1 conflict in python-pam, only in debian/control
<ScottK> Hooray.  New python-dns bugfix upstream release after only 4 years of inactivity!
<StevenK> Hmph. My upload isn't much better, at 367K.
<StevenK> Of course, if I could be bother sending some of the trivial changes to the Debian maintainer, it'd be easier.
<ajmitch> oh nasty
<ajmitch> python-pam is a native package with a debian versioning scheme
<ajmitch> I'd say it's been like this for awhile
<StevenK> Yummy.
<nixternal> wo0t... persia, building plucker with wx-config :)
<nixternal> 2.4 is fine correct/
<ajmitch> http://ftp.egr.msu.edu/debian/pool/main/p/python-pam/python-pam_0.4.2-10.1.tar.gz <-- from 2003
<persia> nixternal: If you can build with 2.6, I'd be extra happy.  Does the patch in 1784 not apply?
<ajmitch> and I'm just building 0.4.2-12ubuntu1
<nixternal> persia: I can build with 2.8 ;)
<ajmitch> this is a really active package
<nixternal> persia: don't need that patch when using a snapshot
<persia> nixternal: If you build with 2.8, it'll be months to get it back to Debian.  I suggest 2.6.  Great news about the patch though.
<nixternal> I am testing a snapshot..and if needbe, I will do the patch to the current version in the repos
<nixternal> 2.6 it is then
* persia celebrates another package that doesn't depend on wx2.4 anymore!
<StevenK> Are you going to request wx2.4 gets booted out?
<persia> StevenK: When it has no reverse depends, yes.  If I can get the patches back to Debian, Ron will request removal there.
<StevenK> persia: Sensible.
<persia> StevenK: Did you want it for something?
<StevenK> persia: Certainly not, I'm just curious how you're handling it.
<ajmitch> so have we removed ion3 from ubuntu yet?
<StevenK> Not according to madison-lite.
<ajmitch> shame
<ajmitch> the author really seems like an arrogant sod
<TheMuso> StevenK: Bah! Thats what I get for merging late at night. Uploading a new debdiff.
<StevenK> Ohhh, neat.
<crimsun> ajmitch: bug 115142
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115142 in ion3 "New distribution conditions based on trademark claim" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115142
<StevenK> You have to be scared when one of the Ubuntu changes for a package is "Work with a recent glibc"
<ajmitch> heh
<persia> ajmitch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt is a good place to watch.
<ajmitch> persia: iff I'm interested in it :)
* persia has apparently made invalid assumptions again :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: New diff uploaded.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, I'll look in a little while.
<TheMuso> StevenK: No rush.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
* ajmitch wonders why python-xml is on the merge list
<persia> Lutin: I've been working with upstream and Debian for the new uqm.  Do you mind if I take the merge?
<nixternal> config.status:   I need this new plucker to run autoreconf first, or is there a way around that before it builds the configure file
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yeah, I've been watching the ion3 saga... Upstream seems a really nice guy, and has promised to never release anything other than binaries for other software he writes.
* StevenK giggles at Womble2's sig in the ion3 diat^Wbug.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Now you have "Uploaders: Uploaders: "
<persia> nixternal: Huh? Could you rephrase your question?
<Fujitsu> Womble2?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Ben Hutchings
<Fujitsu> Ah, yes.
<crimsun> nixternal: you need to build-depend on autotools-dev (if you aren't already build-depending on autoconf/automake1.7+), then modify debian/rules as necessary
<crimsun> nixternal: although you've not stated why you want config.status to actually be significant...
<nixternal> well, configure is in config.status
<nixternal> that is why I said it
<RAOF> You mean, there's a config.status rule in debian/rules which calls configure?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> how would I call the autoreconf?
<RAOF> As "autoreconf" presumably.
<persia> nixternal: Ah.  If you want to run autoreconf before ./configure, just add it to the config.status: rule, prior to the ./configure call.
<RAOF> You've made a change to configure.ac or Makefile.am, yes?
<nixternal> roger...I am guessing it didn't work because I didn't have the autotools-dev
<nixternal> RAOF: no changes made
<RAOF> so why do you need to run autoreconf?
* RAOF is puzzled
<nixternal> the tarball doesn't have configure
<RAOF> ...
<RAOF> Upstream sucks.
<nixternal> haha
<persia> nixternal: Don't forget to update config.{sub,guess} beforehand (and delete in clean) if you're not doing that already.
<nixternal> I will check that
<nixternal> OK, there is no config.{sub,guess}, so that needs to be added
<StevenK> There's notes on that for autotools-dev
<Fujitsu> Wow, great upstream you have there.
<RAOF> They couldn't be bothered releasing a "make dist"d tarball, obviously.
<persia> RAOF: It's a development snapshot.  They stopped work several years ago without explanation.
<RAOF> Cool.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Did you see my python-scipy question in your scrollback?
<nixternal> make: *** No rule to make target `autoreconf', needed by `config.status'.  Stop.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: No, sorry.
<ScottK> Got a minute...
<LaserJock> hehe
<Fujitsu> Ah, right, there.
<Fujitsu> Found it.
<Fujitsu> Didn't highlight for some reason.
<persia> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22087/
<Fujitsu> That's something I've been wondering about for a while, but I really have no idea about it.
<nixternal> persia: thanks
<ScottK> OK.  It looks to be based on looking at the code and what LaserJock told me the python-numpy should conflict python-scipy-core, not python-scipy conflict python-scipy-core
<ScottK> OK.  Well scipy definitely does not provide what scipy-core provides, so I am dead certain that the current situation it wrong.
<Fujitsu> Right, that makes more sense.
<LaserJock> I really thought that was odd
<ScottK> OK.  I'll go fix it that way and we'll see what happens...
<LaserJock> does python-numpy conflict with python-scipy-core
<LaserJock> well, just a sec though
<LaserJock> I think perhaps it's ok for python-scipy to conflict with python-scipy-core
<LaserJock> I *think* that our version of python-scipy won't work with python-scipy-core
<Fujitsu> We're in sync with Debian.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then why do we even have scipy-core?
<StevenK> Hrm. I think I'm done with iputils.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Gah its not my day is it.
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, for people who have scipy-core code
<ajmitch> StevenK: cutting through the merges?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Heh
<StevenK> ajmitch: This will be my fourth since yesterday afternoon.
<ScottK> Looking at the source, scipy-core and numpy have definite overlaps.  I think they should ideally be configured via update-alternatives, but at the very least conflict as they do provide some of the same files.
<ajmitch> StevenK: not bad
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, numpy is scipy-core-ng ;-)
* ajmitch has filed a couple of sync requests, and has done 5 merges, but some are from awhile ago
* ajmitch waves to Sarah 
<ScottK> Right.  Which makes replace/conflict seem very sensible.
<LaserJock> numpy is renamed and somewhat rewritten scipy-core
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<LaserJock> our version of scipy depends on numpy
<LaserJock> but a person could have code written for scipy-core
<TheMuso> StevenK: Fixed...
<Kr4t05> Does anyone want to tackle getting StepMania 3.9 into Gutsy?
<persia> Kr4t05: Is it in Debian?
<jmg_> whats it blocking on?
<Kr4t05> persia: Hrm... Not that I know of.
<Hobbsee> Kr4t05: you do
<Kr4t05> I'll have to look. One moment.
<Hobbsee> actually, stepmania is on REVU,  iirc
<LaserJock> yeah
<Kr4t05> Hobbsee: Ah, good to know. :)
<Kr4t05> Ok, thanks for the info.
<superm1> LaserJock, do you want to get that feather torture session thing done tonight?
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, third time lucky.
<ScottK> LaserJock: Then maybe the right answer is to do nothing.  I asked the bug reporter to install numby and see if that worked.  I'll wait and see what they say I guess.
<LaserJock> well, the bug report was a tad odd
<LaserJock> but if the issue is "where did the distutils go?"
<LaserJock> then perhaps we need a fix for that
<ajmitch> StevenK: what other python merges are you touching?
<ScottK> That seemed to be the issue.
* ajmitch has done python-{ldap,pam,pysqlite2}
<jmg_> english.aljazeera.net broken for anyone else?
<StevenK> ajmitch: Nothing at the moment.
<ajmitch> StevenK: ok, I might borrow python-mysqldb as well
<ScottK> Looks like python-adns is orphaned in Debian and an upstream release behind...
<ajmitch> ScottK: there are a few packages like that
<ScottK> ajmitch: I'm thinking I might adopt it.
<ScottK> I'm already maintaining one similar package (python-dns)
<ajmitch> may as well
<ajmitch> are you sure it's orphaned?
<ajmitch> python-adns (1.1.0-3) unstable; urgency=low
<ajmitch>  .
<ajmitch>    * New maintainer (closes: #379683).
<ScottK> Nevermind then I guess.  I was looking at the -2 diff.
<ScottK> clicked on the wrong one...
<ScottK> I guess that's one less thing to worry about tonight...
<StevenK> TheMuso: Patch looks good.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok thanks.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Third time lucky. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: As you said.
* StevenK sighs, and updates his chroot so libespeak-dev can actually be installed.
<TheMuso> StevenK: How long since it was updated? :)
<StevenK> Yesterday.
<nixternal> we are close..configure craps out searching for a cross-compiler
<StevenK> My sid chroots on the other hand ... :-)
<persia> nixternal: That's just build-deps :)
<nixternal> ya, seems it may be m86k-palmos-gcc
<TheMuso> StevenK: I'm guessing libespeak-dev wouldn't install due to a newer one being in the archives now?
<StevenK> Correct.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, rubber-stamping.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Now to fix the packages relying on what was libgnome-speech3.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Bug updated, and status slammed to Fix Commited.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
<TheMuso> Will keep an eye out.
* StevenK bites his tongue.
<StevenK> :-P
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> lol
<hendrixski> to package a python program, do I need distutils?
<ScottK> hendrixski: Need, no, but if you have a good setup.py, a good debian package is a snap.
<hendrixski> ScottK, Ok... because I just wrote a helloworld,py and a setup.py and ran "python setup.py install"
<ScottK> hendrixski: That'll work on your local system, but not if you want to package something to be distributed by Ubuntu.
<hendrixski> ScottK, so if I want to turn it into a .deb I have to tarball those two files and then dh_make?
<ScottK> It's a little more complex.  What Ubuntu release are you running?
<hendrixski> ScottK, I'm working through this manual on python distutils and I'm not even sure if it installed it on my system (well, on my chroot) so i dunno if I'm ready to move onto the debianization part of it
<hendrixski> I'm on edgy
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Gimme a sec and I'll point you at a simple python package you can look at for an example.
<hendrixski> ScottK, that would be good.  I was looking at democracy player's .deb package, and it's HUGE, so I'm confused
<ScottK> Not a good place to start
<ScottK> hendrixski: in a new directory, try dget -x http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pyyaml/pyyaml_3.05-1.dsc
<hendrixski> k. getting
<hendrixski> ScottK, Ok so what specifically should I look at when I delve into one of these anyway? 'cause I have this terrible feeling that I'm always looking at the wrong things
<etank> i have an app that i would like to make into a deb. what is the recommended way to do that?
<ScottK> Look in the /debian dir.  That's where all the packaging information is.
* persia made a mistake.  Is there any way to kill an upload?
<Fujitsu> persia: You can upload over the top before the next scanning run (every 5 minutes)
<Hobbsee> persia: ask an archive admin, or jsut upload another which reverts the changes
<persia> Fujitsu: I'll try.  Thanks
<hendrixski> ScottK, that's a pretty small debian/rules  I assume cdbs just does all that with one fell swoop?
<ajmitch> persia: you're probably far too late already
<persia> ajmitch: Yes.  Very much so.  Alas.
<hendrixski> actually, I'm still pretty confused... python-yaml is an extension to python.. so it uses the distutils.. can I use the distutils for packaging applications, like my helloworld?
<hendrixski> I'm getting the impression from reading stuff that distutils is only for adding functionality to the python language itself?  is that, kind of close to true?
<ajmitch> distutils is used for applications as well
<LaserJock> hmm, I can't seem to unmount a proc mounted in schroot
<ajmitch> LaserJock: kill whatever's using it
<persia> LaserJock: `sudo lsof | grep schroot`
<hendrixski> ajmitch, Ok.  so... if I wanted to install helloworld.py on my dchroot, is the command python setup.py install the one I'm looking for?  because it doesn't seem to install it.  
<ajmitch> if you're writing an application, you need to create setup.py with the right info
* hendrixski is going to become a great Ubuntu packager some day, just can't figure out the manuals to save his life
<hendrixski> ajmitch, :-) I have a setup.py with just a setup(name, version, py_modules)
<hendrixski> ajmitch, that's all they have in this manual... but when I ran install, I'm not sure that what it did is installing a program :-(
<LaserJock> persia: how does that help me, I got quite a few results
<hendrixski> and that's all the same stuff that's in pyyaml, which ScottK had sent me.
<LaserJock> all I see is a bunch of dbus stuff
<persia> LaserJock: OK.  Just for you: sudo kill -9 `lsof | grep schroot  | awk '{ print $2 }'  | uniq`
<persia> dbus, mysql, and apache are the big culprits for me.  I anxiously await the possible introduction of allowing installation of daemons without immediate start.
<LaserJock> persia: I think mine is dbus
<ajmitch> persia: that's a feature, not a bug :)
<persia> ajmitch: I heard nice things about it being possibly addressed in the LIghtning Talks section of the debconf 2006 videos.
<persia> (plus it breaks sbuild on schroot on LVM snapshot)
<ScottK> hendrixski: If you want an application (a simple one) see dget -x http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pypolicyd-spf/pypolicyd-spf_0.3-1.dsc
<ScottK> hendrixski: Yes, for a simple package, cbds and python-support do all the heavy lifting for you.
<StevenK> persia: How?
<ScottK> persia: spamd in spamassassin installs default not started, so it is possible.
<persia> StevenK: When sbuild detects it is running in a session-managed chroot, it doesn't remove the build-deps after the build.  When there are daemons running, they stay running, and schroot cannot clean up after itself, leaving an extra snapshot.  After a while the snapshot partition gets full.
<StevenK> Ahh.
<StevenK> pbuilder manages to cope with this ... :-)
* StevenK plays "Tempting persia With Pbuilder", take #27420
<persia> StevenK: These need to be manually removed by killing the offending processes and running `schroot -e -c long-complicated-random-string-generated-at-build-time`.  If they are forcibly removed with `sudo lvremove /dev/data00/long-complicated-random-string-generated-at-build-time`, schroot gets confused.
<persia> StevenK: pbuilder requires me to untar each time.  Snapshots are instantaneous.
<hendrixski> ScottK, aaahh cool
<StevenK> Perhaps if pbuilder could use snapshots.
<TheMuso> persia: How do snapshots help sbuild anyway?
<TheMuso> sbuild and schroot that is.
<persia> StevenK: Perhaps, but then it might run afoul of the same problem, because some smart person might apply the small, simple, and wrong solution, and not clean up after each build.
<LaserJock> ok, so apparently it's just my gutsy chroot that's messed up
<LaserJock> :(
<StevenK> Ah.
<hendrixski> alright.  Enough packaging excitement for one night.  Thanks again.  I'l play with those packages a little more and come back with more questions
<LaserJock> well, I mean I can't get into my gutsy chroot
* TheMuso still wonders what use snapshots are...
<persia> TheMuso: I have a master chroot, which only has base, build-essential, and devscripts installed.  Each build is done on a snapshot, so the master schroot is always clean.  Multiple simultaneous builds are possible, without any chance of interference.
<TheMuso> persia: Ah.
<TheMuso> Well pbuilder does this in another way. It unpacks a base tarball that goes ina dir named after the pid of the pbuilder process.
<hendrixski> persia, what's the difference between schroot and dchroot?
<persia> TheMuso: Right.  sbuild on schroot mounts to /var/lib/schroot/mount/long-random-string to do the same thing.
<StevenK> hendrixski: schroot is a rewrite, and provides all of the functionality and more of dchroot.
<persia> hendrixski: Nothing any more.  They used to be different, and dchroot is older
<TheMuso> persia: I think that the random string, is something like an UUID, or something along those lines.
<hendrixski> ohh... so like a fork?
<persia> TheMuso: I think it's the UUID of the snapshot, generated at the time of snapshot creation, but I'm not sure.  It does match the Logical Volume name.
<LaserJock> hmm, I really don't want to have to recreate this chroot :(
<StevenK> Not sure if schroot forked dchroot.
<TheMuso> Dchroot depends on schroot.
<StevenK> LaserJock: I have a local mirror, so building a chroot takes a few minutes. :-)
<persia> TheMuso: Now dchroot is just a wrapper.  It used to be it's own program, until schroot took over.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I does now, yes.
<TheMuso> Right.
<LaserJock> yeah, I was irritated about that
<persia> LaserJock: Your master chroot is corrupted?
<LaserJock> but now it's ok
<LaserJock> master chroot?
<LaserJock> I just have one chroot for gutsy
<LaserJock> I don't use snapshots
* persia apparently incorrectly assumed Laserjock was using LVM
<TheMuso> SO I guess a snapshot only records the differences between the master and the new changes?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Exactly.
<LaserJock> heavens no, LVM does not work well for me
<hendrixski> oh.  that's interesting.  I just learned how to set up the dchroot (and what  chroot is, which is kind of cool) so it doesn't matter which type I use?
<persia> hendrixski: I recommend learning schroot instead of dchroot.  The wrapper will eventually go away.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I wonder if pbuilder would be more efficient if it were to work with lvm snapshots.
<TheMuso> persia: Really? News to me.
<LaserJock> I really don't like LVM yet
<StevenK> TheMuso: I have been too.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Use a server with it, you'll learn to love it.
* StevenK has a few Ubuntu servers with LVM around the place here.
<LaserJock> I just screwed everything up
* TheMuso is learning lvm now, with noncritical data, so he knows how to handle it when it comes time for his server to be built.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why?
<LaserJock> well, I don't know if it was me exactly
<persia> TheMuso: Why not?  I suspect it'll take about three Debian releases, but someone will probably get tired of maintaining legacy compatibility options.
<LaserJock> nothing seems to work with LVM
<StevenK> LaserJock: Such as?
<TheMuso> persia: Ah right.
<hendrixski> persia, oh.  I picked up the dchroot from the Ubuntu packaging guide.  Is there a manual you'd recomend for schroot?
<LaserJock> any time I install an OS it either wipes my LVM or doesn't know anything about LVM
<TheMuso> persia: We should look at porting pbuilder to using snapshots...
<StevenK> % df -h / | tail -n 2 | head -n 1
<StevenK> /dev/mapper/system-root
<LaserJock> LVM has been nothing but a headache for me
* ajmitch has used lvm for years, even on the laptop
<LaserJock> I know
<TheMuso> ajmitch: wow.
<ajmitch> TheMuso: wow?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you're the one that convinced me to try it
<persia> TheMuso: dancer listed that on the TODO list, so it's probably very welcome upstream.
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Never thought one would use it on a notebook.
<LaserJock> I guess I'm to dumb for LVM ;-)
<LaserJock> *too
<ajmitch> TheMuso: same reason as on a desktop - snapshots, and space for things like xen
<persia> hendrixski: I used https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto, but it's really sparse, and a little out of date.
* TheMuso is hoping to gradually move from dchroot to schroot with snapshots.
<StevenK> LaserJock: I'm happy to talk to you about it if you like.
<ajmitch> persia: ask keescook about it then :)
<TheMuso> persia: Whats that howto missing?
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, I just don't have a reason for it, tbh
<LaserJock> my "server" has only one disk I care about (hda is Windows) and I just have large partitions
<persia> TheMuso: It's not missing anything per se, but it assumes you run hoary or breezy and want to build dapper packages.  The updated  mk-sbuild-lv.sh works quite well.
* ajmitch just does lvm on md
<TheMuso> persia: Ah ok.
<persia> Also, some of the configuration syntax has changed.
<LaserJock> anywho, I just want to figure out why my silly gutsy chroot won't work
<StevenK> LaserJock: What happens when you try and chroot?
<keescook> persia: I use sbuild every day.  :)  what can I help with?
<LaserJock> mount: proc already mounted or /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-ca068666-0b74-4953-8014-bfccdd6b5b19/proc busy
<LaserJock> mount: according to mtab, proc is mounted on /proc
<LaserJock> E: gutsy-ca068666-0b74-4953-8014-bfccdd6b5b19: Chroot setup failed: stage=setup-start
<persia> keescook: The text on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto is a little out of date (although your script works great).  It's the best place I can find to point people working with sbuild/schroot/LVM, but it feels old.
<keescook> persia: yeah, I wasn't sure how to go about updating the page.  It's kinda like "use this script"  :P
<hendrixski> persia, hhm.. so I assume dchroot does the stuff with the lvm as part of being a wrapper?
<persia> keescook: Also, I think it would be assisted with some troubleshooting data, like the use of lsof and schroot -e to shut down stale schroots that didn't close due to daemons running, etc.
<keescook> LaserJock: yikes.  schroot should have taken care of all of that for you.  Ah, perhaps you don't have my schroot patches?
<persia> hendrixski: If schroot is set up to use LVM, yes.
<LaserJock> keescook: is there any chance to get you to explain the script a bit in the wiki page. I was pretty hesitant to use it
<keescook> persia: aah, yeah.
<persia> keescook: I'm running from the archives.  Are your patches applied?
<LaserJock> well, my dapper and edgy chroots work fine
<keescook> LaserJock, persia: I have a few patches I wrote prior to getting ubuntu-dev membership, they're sitting in the Debian BTS still
<LaserJock> it seems like only my gutsy one that I can't get into
<keescook> I note them at the top of the script.
<hendrixski> persia, Ok.  and the sbuild they talk about in there can create binary .debs, so I don't need pbuilder?
<keescook> they fully clean up the chroot before shutting down (i.e. find all running processes and kill them)
* persia didn't read the script, just trusted keescook to write good scripts
<keescook> hendrixski: correct
<StevenK> LaserJock: Does --verbose help?
<keescook> persia: hehe.  :)
* hendrixski realizes he probably has a lot of annoying questions, but is just SSSOOO excited to be learning about this stuff
<Hobbsee> :)
<StevenK> hendrixski: That'll wear off. :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: hah
<keescook> let's see, I'll go patch schroot right now... 
<ajmitch> cynical yet? :)
<Kim_> If a bug has been resolved in a newer version of Ubuntu, do I set the status to fix released?
<StevenK> Then you'll be bitter and twisted like ajmitch.
<ajmitch> exactly
<persia> keescook: Thanks.
<ajmitch> filled with hate for the world
<StevenK> And possibily, a New Zealander, which is as bad.
<ajmitch> only if you're an australian
<hendrixski> StevenK, :-( aaawww, don't tell me that
<StevenK> hendrixski: I'm poking fun, that's all. :-)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hah
<persia> hendrixski: It takes years.  You can have fun first.  It's like making cheese.
<LaserJock> StevenK: nope, --verbose doesn't help much
<hendrixski> making cheese?
<Hobbsee> dabaR_: yes
<dabaR_> Hobbsee, thank you. Do I also assign noone to the bug?
<Hobbsee> doesnt matter
<Hobbsee> if it's closed, it doesnt show unless you speciifcally search for it
<StevenK> Hrm. It looks like the path from accepted to the archive is closed.
<LaserJock> why the heck does it think proc is mounted?
<LaserJock> grrr
<ajmitch> StevenK: hm?
<StevenK> LaserJock: Okay, can I get you to strace schroot and pastebin the result?
<hendrixski> alrighty, really have to go to sleep.  Thanks again.
<StevenK> LaserJock: strace -s 1500 schroot ...
<StevenK> ajmitch: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=2&queue_text=&start=20
<ajmitch> so it's empty..
<StevenK> Oh bloody hell, it wasn't a few seconds ago.
<ajmitch> :)
<LaserJock> does strace output to stderr?
<ajmitch> strace -o filename
<keescook> LaserJock: you likely have a "bind" mount
<keescook> try
<keescook> umount /var/lib/schroot/mount/NAME/proc
<StevenK> mount | grep -c /var/lib/schroot, too
<LaserJock> no help
<LaserJock> I had some stuff mounted from my dapper chroot
<keescook> pastebin the output of "mount" ?
* nixternal kicks plucker right in the arse
<LaserJock> keescook: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22097/
<keescook> LaserJock: hunh.  so what's the error you're seeing?
<LaserJock> mount: proc already mounted or /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0/proc busy
<LaserJock> mount: according to mtab, proc is mounted on /proc
<LaserJock> E: gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0: Chroot setup failed: stage=setup-start
<TheMuso> keescook: Where do we get the template for the schroot/sbuild script, or do we just make our own from sources.list?
<keescook> TheMuso: the script has an internal sources.list, but you can make your own and name it ~/.mk-sbuild-lv.sources
<TheMuso> Gotcha.
<keescook> where "RELEASE" will automatically be replaced by the release it's building a chroot for
<Hobbsee> dude, wtf?
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/bugs/116344
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116344 in Ubuntu "Sifilinaptic Package Error for 3 days" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* persia liked that bug :)
* Hobbsee wants to reply "please dont screw up yoru system, then file bugs on it that are PEBKAC
<Hobbsee> particularly:
<Hobbsee> Learn how to fix the bugs automatically.
<Hobbsee> Learn from Windows at least something
<persia> Windows fixes bugs automatically?
<ajmitch> users are so much fun
<Simon80> lol @ Sifilinaptic
<Simon80> is someone going to reply and tell him to fix his /etc/apt/sources.list?
<keescook> LaserJock: I would do:
<keescook> sudo mount -o bind /proc /var/lib/schroot/mount/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0/proc
<Simon80> and lol at i384
<keescook> and try it again
* Hobbsee rejects
<Simon80> and the reporter's ID is Usuchtu
<Simon80> I assume that's supposed to be Usucktu
<Simon80> I don't think said user is going to understand your message
<Simon80> words like PEBKAC are too esoteric and complicated
<cables> An Exaile dev is going to make a patch for a bug that basically changes the list of file formats it's allowed to transfer to iPods. Is that going to be updated in the repos, or will I have to build the new version myself?
<LaserJock> keescook: ok, I've got it mounted, but I get the same error
<keescook> oh wait... you're trying to shutdown an schroot, right?  I see.  Sorry, umount that again, and just delete /var/lib/schroot/session/gutsy-d44ee894-8d17-4b92-82c4-866ffd620fd0
<Hobbsee> Simon80: definition added
<Simon80> lol
<keescook> it looks like everything was already umounted, it just thinks there's still a session running
<Hobbsee> cables: you could put it into the repository
<cables> Hobbsee, how could I possibly do that?
<keescook> LaserJock: here's a rather aggressive script I wrote to clean that sort of thing up: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/scripts/u-schroot-cleanup
<Hobbsee> cables: when are they going to release their next upstream?
<cables> Hobbsee, I'm not a MOTU :) I'm just wondering if that sort of stuff gets updated
<keescook> be careful with it; it hasn't deleted my harddrive yet.  :)
<Hobbsee> cables: sure, if someone sees it, and acts on it.
<Hobbsee> cables: and that's why we have sponsorship
<StevenK> keescook: Bind mount / and try it. :-P
<cables> Hobbsee, I need more coding and building knowledge before I can think of becoming a sponsor. I'm going to try to learn Python, is that a good starting point?
<minghua> maybe by "learn from windows" the reporter mean we should give a blue screen with "your /etc/apt/sources.list is corrupt, please reinstall Ubuntu" or something? :-)
<StevenK> minghua: Hah
<StevenK> keescook: You overuse awk. :-P
<persia> blue is nice.  Calming.
<Hobbsee> cables: i'd first go and ask the exaile people when tehy plan to release their next version
<keescook> StevenK: yes, yes I do.  :P
<StevenK> keescook: cut is your friend. :-)
<Simon80> minghua: people like that dude deserve windows, hehe
<keescook> StevenK: yeah, since 2007 or so, I've switched to cut more often than not
<StevenK> keescook: Oh yes, the 1980's called, it wants their subshell quoting rules back.
<cables> Hobbsee, he says he's writing the patch tomorrow, I was just on IRC with him and told him the bug
<StevenK> keescook: Use $() :-P
<keescook> StevenK: hehehe.  that's another change I've made.  ;)
<keescook> patches are welcome.  ;)
<StevenK> :-)
<LaserJock> keescook: no go :(
<keescook> LaserJock: okay, so, just so I understand, you're trying to shut down an schroot, right?
<LaserJock> well, not exactly
<Hobbsee> cables: right.  if they're going to release a new tarball before our upstream version freeze, tehn you may as wlel make sure that the new version gets into ubuntu, rather than putting in the patch now
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get *into* my chroot
<keescook> and this was built using the mk-sbuild-lv.sh script?
<cables> Hobbsee, you mean before gutsy's freeze? I don't know the lingo :)
<LaserJock> keescook: nope
<Hobbsee> yes
<keescook> LaserJock: ah, in that case, I'm not entirely sure what your config looks like, but does "id" show you as being part of the "sbuild" group?
<LaserJock> I'm not using sbuild, sorry
<keescook> oh. hm
<LaserJock> I'm literally just trying to chroot in
<LaserJock> I can sudo chroot in
<LaserJock> but schroot is no go
<persia> LaserJock: Are you either listed directly, or in a listed group for the chroot in schroot.conf?
<LaserJock> I'm listed directly
<keescook> LaserJock: I spent a lot of time beating my head against schroot.  Once I got a schroot working, I wrote that script to reproduce it.  :P  I've kind of be ignoring the internals ever since.  :P
<Simon80> when's UVF?
<persia> Simon80: August
<Simon80> k
<LaserJock> wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule
<Simon80> lots of time to get into debian instead, I hope
<LaserJock> keescook: well, it *was* working
<Simon80> I guess I want to know when DIF is
<LaserJock> June 20 I think
<TheMuso> keescook: Have you considered adding the patch to schroot for Ubuntu?
<Simon80> LaserJock: sorry for wasting your time, I should just look it up next time
<Simon80> but thanks
<keescook> TheMuso: yup, just uploaded it now.
<TheMuso> keescook: Ah ok.
* persia rushes to get a taste of new schroot crack
<LaserJock> Simon80: not a waste exactly, it's just nice to know where to look it up yourself ;-)
* TheMuso manually patches hsi copy in feisty.
<TheMuso> his copy even
<Simon80> anyway, it's ok to miss the DIF, I can just request a sync
<Simon80> right?
<persia> Simon80: You need to draft a Rationale to get a sync after DIF.  Most good reasons are fine.
<Simon80> what if the reason is it's a package I made?
<StevenK> persia: No he doesn't.
<Simon80> I didn't think so
<persia> StevenK: No?  It used to be that way.
<Simon80> it's not like the other freezes, you just file a bug
<Simon80> my understanding
<StevenK> persia: You don't need a rationale even after UVF if it's a new Debian upload.
<persia> Simon80: Just mention the improvements in debian (debian/changelog update is usually enough) [with the old way of doing things] 
<Simon80> well, you'd have till new packages freeze universe
<Simon80> persia, in this case it would be a new package upload
<Simon80> sponsored, since I'm not a DD
* StevenK made that mistake, and filed a nice, complete UVF exception request for 1.0.0-2 -> 1.0.0-4 and was then told he didn't need an exception.
<persia> StevenK: What happened to Rationale?  Was it decided that it was too much trouble to judge, and we'd do better to trust Debian?
<StevenK> persia: I've had to rationalize new upstreams, but not a new Debian revision.
<TheMuso> Wow. First it was sparc, now ia64 lags behind. :)
<StevenK> ia64 should be catching up.
<Simon80> what about a new package?
<persia> StevenK: I understand.  I was told to write Rationale a long time ago, and wasn't told it was a waste of time until now.  I want my keyboard wear reversed :)
<StevenK> Ahh, now a new package will probably require rationale after DIF.
* persia feels smug
<StevenK> However, now persia has confused me, so please check yourself. :-P
<LaserJock> ok, wow
<persia> StevenK: I don't think we need a whole UVF report, just a couple sentences (new bugs fixed, compiles properly in current development snapshot, etc.).
<LaserJock> I figured it out
<StevenK> LaserJock: Share!
<LaserJock> somehow I had proc mounted in the actual chroot
<StevenK> Neat.
<persia> LaserJock: Nifth!
<persia> s/h/y/
<LaserJock> but it didn't show up in mount ore df -a or anything
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's not unusual
<ajmitch> it would have shown in /proc/mounts though
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well, now that I've spent the last hour working on that ...
<ajmitch> :)
<Simon80> anyone seen an upstream version of a package that has a hyphen in it?
<Simon80> I'm wondering if I should tweak my own script to take that into account
<Simon80> nvm, lol, I just thought of a better way, using the output of dpkg-parsechangelog
<Simon80> damn shell
<Simon80> it's so convoluted, and yet so useful that it's not going away anytime soon
<minghua> Simon80: xfonts-wqy has hyphen in upstream version number
<Simon80> hehe, cool
<Simon80> well, my method should work
<Hobbsee> hi spam.
<ajmitch> uh oh, it's a CC member!
<StevenK> Look busy!
* ajmitch is on his best behaviour
<Simon80> I was just trying to find a reliable way to figure out the orig tarball in shell
<StevenK> Simon80: By parsing the .dsc?
<Simon80> nah
<Simon80> before that
<StevenK> I can't think of a reliable way, then.
* Hobbsee quickly looks around for something to do
<Simon80> so far what I do is take `basename $PWD` and remove -{the upstream version}, then add _{the upstream version}
<TheMuso> Simon80: What are you working on?
<Simon80> little script to backport packages for different dists, then upload them to my new personal repo
<Simon80> probably something someone else has already done
<Simon80> that, or probably I should share it :)
<persia> Simon80: If you can reliably determine upstream, consider uscan - it has some handy logic to name orig.tar.gz
<nixternal> rm -rf pluck*
<nixternal> what the pluck!
<persia> nixternal: Why ?!?
<nixternal> haha, man it is so close
<nixternal> http.h
<nixternal> that is what I am trying to figure out now
<nixternal> #include <http.h>
<Simon80> persia, is it more complicated than just name_upstream.orig.tar.gz?
<nixternal> need to find out what that is provided by
<persia> Simon80: No.
<Simon80> well then, no need
<TheMuso> Simon80: DOn't forget that some packages are native, i.e there is no revision.
<keescook> persia, LaserJock: I made my first stab at updating the instructions on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<nixternal> and autoreconf & ./configure == evil..there is an autoconf.sh file which does everything..and it works
<Simon80> TheMuso: brain... meting
<Simon80> melting*
<Simon80> I don't need to worry about that for a while
<keescook> okay, to bed for realz
<nixternal> fo realz
<persia> keescook: That looks great.  My only confusion is early discussion about gutsy, and lots of examples with feisty.  Thanks a lot.
<Simon80> in those cases, my script isn't appropriate anyway, it's for backporting
<Simon80> ...so how would I append ~something to the debian release if there is no release number?
<Simon80> hmm, nevermind, I see existing backports just append to the upstream version
<Simon80> I should probably put this and the other script I have on a wiki page or something at some point
<Simon80> I'm using reprepro with a wrapper that adds packages from an incoming directory
<Simon80> so this script copies the source directory to a temp dir, updates the changelog to add a ~dist1 thing, builds it, dputs it, and then dput runs the wrapper, it goes into the repo
<TheMuso> ah cool.
<Simon80> dunno how that compares to what other people use for repos, I'm still unsure what others use
<TheMuso> I guess it depends on how automated/manual you want the repo to be.
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> well, I mean, if you want a pool, different dists and components
<TheMuso> Simon80: Does reprepro do that?
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> generates contents files too
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Reprepro is the best tool I've found so far for doing deacent repositories.
<StevenK> I disagree.
<StevenK> But whichever.
<Simon80> StevenK: please point out what you prefer
<Simon80> I actually set up a mini-dinstall repo just before this before realizing it outputs trivial repos only
<StevenK> Simon80: I don't need my own repository, have you had a look at falcon?
<Simon80> a bit
<StevenK> mini-dinstall is worse than reprepro.
<Simon80> not from the repo maintainer's end
<Simon80> yeah, it is
<TheMuso> StevenK: Where can one find more info on falcon?
* StevenK kicks rubygems. Hard. In the face.
<TheMuso> I've heard of it a few times, but not seen it
<StevenK> TheMuso: https://launchpad.net/falcon
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<Simon80> it's hard to find its homepage
<TheMuso> Woooo
<TheMuso> Something like this has been needed for a long time.
<LaserJock> it's been around for a while
<TheMuso> Are there any official releases of it?
<TheMuso> i.e I see two branches, but not sure which one to use.
<Simon80> I'm pretty happy with reprepro now that it's set up ;)
<TheMuso> I see falcon-2, but not sure if its unstable, etc.
<LaserJock> I think that's the one you want
<LaserJock> I've not used falcon, but I had talk about the branches with somebody in the know
<LaserJock> *had a
<Simon80> it's ironic that it's aiming to be user friendly, but it's impossible to find a canonical upstream source to obtain it from
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> that's one thing I dislike about Launchpad
<persia> Does LP not provide a place to download project binaries?  I thought I just couldn't find it.
<Simon80> heh, there IS no upstream source to obtain launchpad from
<Simon80> if one thinks about it that way
<beuno> quick question, is there another "big" upstream to Ubuntu other then: Debian, Gnome, KDE and Xorg?
<LaserJock> persia: not that I know of
<LaserJock> beuno: Linux?
* persia considers trolling LP buglists again
<beuno> LaserJock: as in "kernel"?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> persia: it's planned to have project homepages and mailing lists
<LaserJock> that should clear things up I think
<beuno> LaserJock: that would seem like a bug upstream, yes, can you think of any other
<persia> LaserJock: Thanks for saving me the effort.  I like planned.  I'd like it more if I could actually read the blueprints instead of just diffs when they are updated :)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> I tried to get access to the wiki
<LaserJock> just too much "super secret" stuff I guess ;-)
<jsgotangco> beuno: GNU :-)
<beuno> jsgotangco: Ubuntu downloads packages straight from GNU?
* TheMuso pondrs...
<TheMuso> Devel was updated more recently than falcon-2.
<jsgotangco> beuno: well if you want a super upstream that is
<persia> LaserJock: What I don't understand is why external parties are sent diffs.  I'd rather not get anyting other than whiteboard updates than diffs to an original I can't see, which only gives me the full picture over time.
<LaserJock> beuno: well, most packages come from Debian regardless
<jsgotangco> yeah
<LaserJock> persia: because they didn't know that was happening ;-)
<persia> beuno: The build-chain is often taken straight from upstream, so yes.
<beuno> I'm looking from places Ubuntu actually downloads them, not "origin"
<beuno> python?
<LaserJock> Debian
<jsgotangco> i can think toolchain
<LaserJock> even then
<LaserJock> it depends on the release
<LaserJock> sometimes we're ahead of Debian more than other times
<beuno> maybe this helps, I'm trying to put together similar to this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Debian-package-cycle.png
<minghua> beuno: what do you mean by "download"?  all packages are _uploaded_ by maintainers
<beuno> minghua: right, as in what comes down to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I'm out for tonight
<LaserJock> goodnight everybody
<persia> Night LaserJock
<minghua> good night
* minghua should go sleep as well
<TheMuso> ...yet its not updated to use deps in feisty/gutsy...
<ASCIIGirl> persia, ping :)
<persia> ASCK
<persia> ASCIIGirl: Hello.
<Fujitsu> Yay, it seems I have sbuild+schroot+LVM working.
<persia> Fujitsu: Congrats.
<Fujitsu> It turns out that the only problem with my previous setup was it not mounting my LUKSed home directory.
<Fujitsu> And that caused it to go up in flames and generally diep.
<Fujitsu> *die
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: LUKSed?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: On a volume encrypted with LUKS.
<TheMuso> Oh.
* Fujitsu grabs the new Gutsy schroot
<persia> Fujitsu: Careful of sbuild.  I've had trouble with 0.54.
<Fujitsu> It's not unmounting the snapshot because of processes still run. The last upload supposedly fixes that.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's schroot.  Schroot is good crack.
<Fujitsu> But I guess it won't have published yet.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Lutin> persia: np, feel free to merge uqm
<imbrandon> ello all
<TheMuso> Well its currently building on all but ia64.
<persia> Fujitsu: The workaround is to use sudo kill -9 `lsof | awk ' /schroot/ { print $2 }'  | uniq`
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<nixternal> persia: I found another issue with the new plucker
<persia> Lutin: Thanks.  I just saw your name on DaD, and wanted to check.
<imbrandon> moins TheMuso 
<nixternal> it requires libhttp which isn't in the repos
<Lutin> persia: the name just changed :)
<persia> nixternal: Ah.  This is deep (and requires REVU), or shallow, and only requires copying a couple files?
<nixternal> 1 file really
<nixternal> http.h
<persia> nixternal: Presumably, it depends on having http.c as well, and so on, no?
<persia> nixternal: Also, do you know which libhttp?  I see several when searching with Google.
<nixternal> http://www.softorchestra.com/downloads/
<nixternal> it is in the README located in parser/c++/
<nixternal> I copied the files over to /usr/include
<nixternal> I am going to do a quick dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to see how it goes
<nixternal> if it goes through, then a quick libhttp package shouldn't be to painful
<persia> Seems easy.  Is the "LEAVE ME ALONE" license DFSG-free?
<StevenK> persia: GPL v2 only, and don't ask me anything
* persia is slient as instructed, but confused.
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> I'm making a joke about the 'leave me alone' license. :-P
<nixternal> persia: well it doesn't seem to be using a license of any type
<persia> StevenK: I'm looking at http://pastebin.ca/504649
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22107/
<nixternal> persia: ^^
<persia> nixternal: That's a license., just a strange one.
<nixternal> lol
<persia> nixternal: Comparing with http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines, I think it's safe, as long as you have a good enough debian/copyright.
<tsmithe> any DDs available to sponsor my package at http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/w/wired ?
<nixternal> wo0t
<nixternal> the new plucker closes at least 1 bug on malone
<persia> nixternal: I can open more if you want a longer changelog :)
<nixternal> no thank you
<nixternal> my lord...the build deps got nasty
<man-di_> tsmithe: hello
<man-di_> tsmithe: did you pinged me for sponsoring?
<tsmithe> man-di_, yup :)
<man-di_> tsmithe: please mail to me konqueror@gmx.de, then I can look into it later
<tsmithe> thanks muchly :)
<man-di_> later as in "in some hours"
<tsmithe> i don't care - i gotta go to school soon ;)
<ASCIIGirl> anibal, :)
<anibal> ASCIIGirl, :)
<beuno> persia: is there anywhere I can read on what the criteria for the "updates" repo is?
<persia> beuno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/SRU (use `apt-cache madison packagename` to decide.  Also, asking generally will often get a faster response than asking a single person.  Especially because I'm not an expert with SRU's :)
<beuno> persia: I agree, but since you've answered all my questions up to know, I thought, "why not"  :D
<beuno> thanks a bunch
<persia> beuno: :)
<persia> Is anyone both good with python and http and willing to solve an issue for me?
<Fujitsu_> Gr, I don't like schroot taking down my kernel with it.
<beuno> persia: maybe I can help, what's your problem?
<persia> beuno: webboard.  Specifically, webboard 0.2.1-0ubuntu3 doesn't work in gutsy.  I applied a patch for 0.2.1-0ubuntu4 which appeared to do the right thing, but it doesn't work either.  I don't really know python, so I'm not sure how to fix it.
<beuno> persia: lemme download it, what's the bug?
<persia> beuno: I haven't filed a bug yet :)  If you are making progress, please open one.  If you don't make progress, let me know, and I'll open one.
<beuno> persia: oh, I haven't got gutsy installed here, thought I might be able to take a peak at it from Feisty, I'll dl it tomorrow and try it from Gutsy if you like  :D
<persia> beuno: Great.  Thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<TheMuso> Heya dholbach.
<elkbuntu> hey dholbach
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey TheMuso, hey elkbuntu, hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<dholbach> how's it going?
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks for the gnome-speech merge - do we have to do a couple of rebuilds now?
* Hobbsee is still fighting kdebuilding, and cooking.
<dholbach> TheMuso: or it might have to go through binary NEW first
<TheMuso> dholbach: Binary new first, but once its through, I can do the updates for the packages that depend on it.
<dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot
* dholbach hugs TheMuso
<TheMuso> dholbach: np.
<dholbach> who of you would be interested in doing mentoring?
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have some mentors available once I announce the new mentoring process
<Hobbsee> depends what it entails
<persia> dholbach: I'm up for it.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Sure. I am sorta mentoring a couple of people now.
* TheMuso should read that wiki page, and goes to do so.
<dholbach> from what I experienced until now, people send you a mail saying: "I want to contribute, I love Ubuntu, I've been doing some C++ until now. Where do I get started?"
<persia> I've gotten a couple "I see your name in Launchpad.  Can you help me help out?"
<dholbach> so if you're mentoring somebody it'd be nice if you had some easy tasks for the contributor at hand, some wiki links, if you did some reviews for her/him every now and then and so on
<dholbach> we've been quite bad at tracking progress, so the reception would ask back every now and then how it's going
<dholbach> if you're unsure, better only offer one or two mentoring slots in the beginning and go from there
<dholbach> the good thing about the new mentoring process is that we will try this dedicated thing, so people don't have to cope with millions of contributors and take care of them properly
<dholbach> ... let's see how that goes :-)
<persia> dholbach: Could we submit names of current people?  I'd like to start with some retroactive tracking.
<dholbach> persia: sure - just give me the launchpad id
<RAOF>  /msg ubotu automatix
<RAOF> Stupid space key!
<dholbach> TheMuso, persia: should I add you both with 2 mentoring slots available?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yes pleae, although these are likely to e taken up by ubuntustudio people, which I would actually prefer.
<TheMuso> please
<persia> dholbach: stijn-polfliet, mrcheatr, and I have one slot free.
<dholbach> interesting
<dholbach> stijn-polfliet mailed me too :)
<persia> dholbach: Very motivated, but very unfamiliar with Ubuntu.
<dholbach> TheMuso: do you have LP IDs of the people you mentor already?
<nixternal> OK, Plucker is now happy...some more tweaking as I would like to get the documentation installed and working as well
<nixternal> so I need to get libhttp packaged and up'd to Debian, then sync it, then die
<persia> nixternal: Congratulations.  Hurrah!
<TheMuso> dholbach: I don't really mentor anybody from ubuntustudio yet, as they haven't really got back into packaging, but probably AstralJava luisbg
<TheMuso> are the two I'd start with
<nixternal> persia: it actually works quite well now
<persia> nixternal: And I presume it looks nice as well :)
<nixternal> I have cleaned up debian, recreated an old patch (now there are only 3 patches instead of like 10)
<nixternal> persia: making it look nice will be the last thing
<dholbach> TheMuso: ok, I added them to the list, so your 2 slots are taken
<nixternal> actually...I am making it look nice little by little
<TheMuso> dholbach: Great, thanks.
<nixternal> remove something, test it..if it works great, if not put it back
<nixternal> man, Spider works now... --filter= works now
<persia> Even dead upstreams sometimes have useful code.
<nixternal> persia: the dead upstream is just that 1.9.0 patch applied it seems
<nixternal> and the need for the silly <http.h> all of a sudden
<nixternal> oh, that is because 1.9.0 has C++ parser now and not just Python and Perl
<persia> nixternal: Doesn't surprise me.  I've seen a couple dead upstreams that have three or four patches applied from the bugtracker or mailing list, but no plans for release or real work.
<nixternal> that's why
<nixternal> now the only bug to fix with it is the documentation
<nixternal> I am close with it, as I just watched it build
<nixternal> so with libhttp, it will pretty much be a ./configure && make && make install && cp *.h /usr/include
<persia> nixternal: You'll want to check the library packaging guidelines: you need both libhttp# (to match the soname) and libhttp-dev (with .h and -a) binaries built from your source.
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> that should be a fun one
<persia> nixternal: It's a simple library, so probably a good intoduction to library packaging :)
<nixternal> that is what I am hoping
<persia> What is the best practice if I want to remove all Ubuntu changes from a package that isn't being merged?  Should I just upload a new version and put "fakesync from Debian, dropping Ubuntu changes" in the changelog?  This is for uqm-content, which changes become irrelevant with new contents in uqm pulled from upstream.
<dholbach> why can't you ask for a normal sync?
<persia> dholbach: The current ubuntu version is higher than the current debian version (and was also in feisty).
<dholbach> ah right - I'd use the debian packaging then and add a higher version number (in a new changelog entry)
<persia> dholbach: Right.  But is there a standard for the changelog entry, or is the above sufficient?
<dholbach> sufficient, you could mention that you use the Debian packaging and maybe  debuild -S -v0.0  or something so all the old debian entries appear in the changes file
<persia> dholbach: OK.  Thanks.  That's a huge changes file (>2K).
<dholbach> Ok, then just a short notice about using the Debian packaging is fine.
* persia reruns debuild -S :)
<crimsun> yep, noting the fakesync is good.
<nixternal> g'nite all
<nixternal> thanks persia for your help today/tonight/this morning :)
<nixternal> we covered all times
<persia> night nixternal
<crimsun> where should I redirect mentor requests?
<crimsun> [for those who have emailed me directly] 
<crimsun> ok, so no place to redirect mentor requests yet?
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> for now you can send them to me and i'll find somewhere to get a list going of
<imbrandon> mentors/mentorees
<imbrandon> if you want crimsun 
<dholbach> crimsun, imbrandon: send them to highvoltage or me
<crimsun> Rationale: I'll only be online intermittently for the next 3 years beginning 9 July, so I wouldn't make a good mentor.
<dholbach> we'll work something out using the reception-data thing
<dholbach> once we added some people who do mentoring to the list, I'll change the documentation and announce it
<crimsun> dholbach: ok, I'll continue to send them to you ande remove myself from the list, then.
* pochu waves
<dholbach> crimsun: I'll purge the current MOTU/Mentors list quite soon anyway
<TheMuso> crimsun: Wow dude. Sounds like a big project is coming your way.
* Hobbsee hides from the mentoring
<dholbach> gpocentek, slomo, raphink, Toadstool: you're listed on MOTU/Mentors - would you mind if I added you with two mentoring slots each to the mentoring-reception-list?
<raphink> what does that imply exactly dholbach?
<crimsun> TheMuso: I'll be rotating through the EU, India, and Russia AFAIK, so I'll have limited access.
<imbrandon> dholbach, i can take one slot, dont think i have time for two 
<imbrandon> atm
<dholbach> raphink: that if somebody asks for a mentor that we might forward his request to you and check back every now and then and see how that goes
<superm1> imbrandon, could you stop in -mythtv for a min?  
<imbrandon> superm1, sure
<dholbach> raphink: just check the conversation we had here two hours ago for a reference
<highvoltage> imbrandon: what's your LP name?
<dholbach> imbrandon
<dholbach> hey stijn_pol
<stijn_pol> hi!
<stijn_pol> If have a :s question
<imbrandon> highvoltage, imbrandon
<highvoltage> ok
<imbrandon> imbrandon@kubuntu.org www.imbrandon.com https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon http://wiki.ubuntu.com/imbrandon
<imbrandon> hehe :)
<Hobbsee> heh
<stijn_pol> While reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField I decided I needed to change maintainer to UbuntuMOTUDevelopers<ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>(The package I am changing is in universe). But It is not so clear what I should do with original maintainer. Just make an extra line with Debian-Maintainer: ... ??
<imbrandon> i have some other wiki pages too like on debian.org and gnusolaris.org :)
<dholbach> stijn_pol: use XSBC-Original-Maintainer
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee back
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee wonders how much sounder blew up today
<stijn_pol> dholbach: So I have this:
<stijn_pol> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<stijn_pol> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Sander Marechal <s.marechal@jejik.com>
<stijn_pol> in control file. What should I write in changelog? something like: Changed maintainer field
<dholbach> stijn_pol: exactly
<stijn_pol> Allright! My first patch is almost there!
<dholbach> rock and roll!
<dholbach> :-)
<Hobbsee> oh blergh.
<Hobbsee> i'm being mentioned in that mailing list, so i'm probably now goign to have to read it all.
<pochu> Hobbsee: motu-council?
<Hobbsee> pochu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2007-May/thread.html
<Hobbsee> from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2007-May/010269.html
<Hobbsee> onwards
<jmg_> Hobbsee: hehe
<jmg_> Hobbsee: great letter
<jmg_> i agree
* Hobbsee hasnt posted to there.
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: did
<jmg_> oh
<jmg_> sorry
<elkbuntu> hehe, nixternal was just saying how awesome you are :)
<jmg_> Hobbsee, elkbuntu, i have a video project i am planning, i want to know if you think i am being sexist
<elkbuntu> oh?
<jmg_> it consists of having someone try to give out ubuntu cds to women and strike up a conversation
<jmg_> and videoing the results
<gpocentek> hi all
<Hobbsee> try to microsoft employees. that's fun too
<Hobbsee> hi gpocentek 
<elkbuntu> the inevitable question: why just women?
<gpocentek> dholbach: I think I won't have time for mentoring, at least during gutsy development
<gpocentek> hello Hobbsee 
<dholbach> gpocentek: alright - best to remove you from that page then
<gpocentek> dholbach: yep
<jmg_> elkbuntu: to demonstrate the bias 
<elkbuntu> how is that going to achieve that?
<jmg_> elkbuntu: by documenting the humiliation
<gnomefreak> whne you use apt-cache rdepends what does the | infront of them mean?
<elkbuntu> i dont get how it will do that
<elkbuntu> afk, dinner
<jmg> elkbuntu: maybe you will ahve to wait and see
* jmg got camera today
<gpocentek> gnomefreak: IIRC it stands for "or"
<jmg> gpocentek: that would make sense
<gnomefreak> that could be good. thank you
<crimsun> gnomefreak: be careful with rdepends
<crimsun> and likewise, with depends
<gnomefreak> im just building them to satisfy the firefox depends i was just wondering if the ones with the | were important
<crimsun> [note that rdepends will include both Recommends and Suggests in its list] 
<gnomefreak> yeah i noticed that
<imbrandon> wow really
<imbrandon> that sucks
<crimsun> and alternates are always important, else they shouldn't be in debian/control :-)
<gnomefreak> im figuring out why ff is one of those packages that dont get backported
<dholbach> crimsun: you seem to get a lot of mentoring requests - does a wiki page still say that people should contact you for mentoring or something?
<crimsun> dholbach: I removed myself about an hour ago.
<dholbach> crimsun: ok, just wondered if there was another place you were still mentioned as mentoring contact or something
<crimsun> I'm away from my main inbox, but later this morning I'll go back through it and send out similar CCs so that the prospectives don't get lost in the cracks.
<crimsun> probably a half-dozen or so of those
<Hobbsee> yay, finally read the whole thing :)
<crimsun> Hobbsee is going to have fun with ALSA. :-)
<dholbach> crimsun: thanks a lot
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hah.  no thanks.
<TheMuso> crimsun: Seriously, w ho will work on alsa?
<TheMuso> s/w ho/who/
<gnomefreak> isnt there a alsa team/sound team?
<crimsun> the alsa team/sound team effectively has been me.
<crimsun> TheMuso: from gutsy forward, the bugs will be much more manageable, as we'll be tracking upstream ALSA and not "attempt to fix as many bugs as possible"
<TheMuso> crimsun: Right.
<crimsun> in that sense, it'll be much more straightforward to push and pull from ALSA's bug tracker, Mantis
<TheMuso> Right.
<crimsun> for the past couple days I've been hacking Toby's asoundconf-gtk; so far I've extended it to use Qt3 and fixed some bugs in his GTK+2 set.  My goal is to wrap all the known-working asoundrcs into a shipped database that we allow the user to select (via checkbox, presented per-driver so only the relevant options appear).
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> How easy will it be to add new asoundrcs?
<crimsun> from upstream (where upstream in this sense is the group working in #alsa) or..?
<crimsun> I haven't gotten to the hook bit in my spec; I intend it to query the available list to check for new ones, both confirmed and in-progress.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<crimsun> I debated using hal, but it apparently doesn't expose enough codec info
<crimsun> sigh, the utter inanity of it all.
<TheMuso> Would it be too much work get hal to expose the info needed?
<crimsun> at this point I'm not sure it's worth it.
<TheMuso> Ah ok
<TheMuso> .c
<pschulz01> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> pschulz01: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: hehe... can we continue our discussion re. packaging?
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Sure.
<Hobbsee> hi pschulz01 
<pschulz01> TheMuso: I'm going to take this slowly (I hope you don't mind) as I want to understand what exactly is going on..
<pschulz01> Hobbsee: Howdy.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Sure.
<elkbuntu> micahcowan, LAWL!
<pschulz01> 1. I have a package that built using GNU autotools..
<micahcowan> elkbuntu, which? :)
<elkbuntu> micahcowan, second
<micahcowan> "Prove it?"
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Right.
<elkbuntu> yeah
<dholbach> Lutin: you overwrote the cairo-clock package - did you talk to Mirco Mller (Ubuntu maintainer) about that?
<dholbach> Lutin: (he's upstream for it as well)
<pschulz01> 1a. It's actually source from a git archive..
<elkbuntu> micahcowan, i was tempted to respond with: "Thank You for emailing Melissa. Your email is very important to her..." but refrained ;)
<micahcowan> :)
<micahcowan> I'm glad that you ignored the underlying attitude, and addressed the question directly. You did a great job of doing that, too.
<micahcowan> I, OTOH, couldn't resist. :)
<pschulz01> TheMuso: .. so far so good.
<pschulz01> .. but there is no sign of this elusive 'tmp' directory, as I would now like to split the build up into separate packages.
<pschulz01> Everything has gone into the first package directory.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: You have to modify debian/rules to install into debian/tmp
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Ok.. what would that be?
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Do I manually set DESTDIR?
<TheMuso> pschulz01: You set DESTDIR yes
<TheMuso> SO something like $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Trying..
<PriceChild> Hey, one of the things persia asked me to do was "In the man page, please differentiate - by using \- and \(hy " But I don't understand what this is referring to... man page here: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gizmod-0705221605/gizmod-3.1/debian/gizmod.1
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Trying: DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp ./configure --prefix=/usr
<pschulz01> Seemed to expand correctly..
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Its better to change the DESTDIR in the install target.
<TheMuso> And nowhere else should you mention DESTDIR.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: You would mean change the lint that says.. "	$(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tpserver-cpp install"
<raphink> dholbach: did I answer you this morning?
<pschulz01> TheMuso: (how does your screen reader cope with code?)
<dholbach> raphink: you said:      <raphink> what does that imply exactly dholbach?
<TheMuso> pschulz01: FIne. Yes thats the line you should change.
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> dholbach: ok, I signed up to be a mentor because I want to help people who need guidance
<raphink> now from my experience, a lot of people write to me asking what they could do
<raphink> which is not very easy to answer
<pschulz01> TheMuso: You are right.. that didn't previous attempt didn't work :-)
<dholbach> raphink: would you take on two contributors and the reception would assign you when we get requests?
<raphink> I kind of expected people asking how they could package or so
<dholbach> raphink: we'll make sure that you don't get more than you can handle
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> raphink: we all agreed that it might be best to have a few small tasks at hand, which you can walk them through
<raphink> dholbach: I don't have a lot of time lately, but when I get requests, I make my best to deal with them
<dholbach> raphink: so if it's a package update or a simple merge or an easy bug, that's cool
<raphink> I currently have 2 or 3o people who have asked me to mentor them
<dholbach> raphink: if you get to many requests ask them to mail ~motu-mentoring-reception
<raphink> but they haven't really stated what they wnated to be doing 
<dholbach> raphink: if they don't know what to do, best to give them an easy task
<raphink> hmmm ok
<dholbach> raphink: so they see that it's not all rocket science
<raphink> that's an option
<raphink> hehe ;)
<raphink> yep
<raphink> so a simple merge or so
<dholbach> great, I'll write some documentation on that as we go
<dholbach> right
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> raphink: who are you mentoring at the moment? can you give me the LP IDs of them, so I'll add them to the list
<cbx33> hey peoples
<raphink> hmm sure let me find them
<dholbach> we will ping you back like every 4 weeks on them, so we can see if they make progress or left the process
<cbx33> anyone here a network guru
<dholbach> hey cbx33
<cbx33> I'm trying to demonstrate to people how easy arp poisoning is
<cbx33> it's working in cain and abel in a VM....but I really want to use ettercap
<cbx33> however when I setup poisoning between the client and the gateway, the client just loses internet connection
<cbx33> anyone know why
<cbx33> in the man page it said it's because it possibly doesn't have the right Gateway set in thekernel routing
<cbx33> but it does seem to....
<cbx33> it's frustrating that windows is doing it right and linux can't do it
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Ok.. I now have a populated 'debian/tmp' directory... 
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Reading the man page can sometime be useful. I think I can join the dots now.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Great.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Need the option --sourcedir=debian/tmp
<TheMuso> pschulz01: No.
<pschulz01> ?
<TheMuso> In the .install files, you simply put debian/tmp/ at the beginning of each line.
<TheMuso> so debian/tmp/usr/bin/command
<TheMuso> debian/tmp/usr/lib/liblibrary.so.* etc.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Is that set in stone? I'd rather put the argument in the rules file.
<gnomefreak> when a package is auto merged it doesnt leave a changelog entry does it?
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: autosynced, you mean?
<gnomefreak> yeah
<Fujitsu> Nothing automerges.
<Fujitsu> It's synced, so no.
<gnomefreak> were we autosyncing for dapper?
<Fujitsu> It can be seen on the LP page for the source package, though.
<Fujitsu> Yes, but we only migrated to Launchpad for package management around 2006/02, so anything before then is untrustworthy.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Thats the way the vast majority of packages do it.
<gnomefreak> ok ty
<TheMuso> afaik anyway
<pschulz01> TheMuso: I'm going to try with the argument. It means that it will be easier to discuss how to split up the package with upstream... who won't care about the 'debian/tmp'
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Thank you very much for your help :-)
<TheMuso> pschulz01: np.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz <-- People I Owe Beers/Pizza/Yiros Too
<TheMuso> heh
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Wahoo! That worked.
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Great.
<StevenK> pschulz01: I have a list like that, it just isn't public. :-)
* shawarma ponders using the powers of wiki to add himself to such lists
<pschulz01> StevenK: If mine get's any longer, I might have to take it down as the bank might consider it a liability.
<StevenK> Muahaha
* Sarah will take the pizza or yiros, thanks :P
<pschulz01> back in a little while.. 
<dholbach> gpocentek: you might want to remove the Mentors link from your personal wiki page :)
<gpocentek> dholbach: yep, I should update this page too
<dholbach> MOTU/Mentoring is online now
<dholbach> I'll announce it soon
<gpocentek> cool
<Lutin> dholbach: I didn't poke him as I saw he did upload to debian, I thought it was ok. any issues with it ?
<dholbach> Lutin: who is 'he' in that case?
<dholbach> Lutin: ah ok, seems he did the initial upload
<dholbach> Lutin: there are quite a bunch of code changes in the .diff.gz
<Lutin> dholbach: Mirco Mller
<dholbach> Lutin: I just wondered if you had had any conversation with him
<dholbach> Lutin: he didn't do the last upload (Bart Martens)
<dholbach> Lutin: as long as he knows what's going on, I'm happy
<Lutin> dholbach: ok
<dholbach> Lutin: just wanted to make sure we don't overwrite packages like that (it got my attention since I talked to him and helped him prepare that package)
<jussi01> ok, who are cononical employees here?
<jussi01> canonical even
<dholbach> jussi01: what do you need?
<jussi01> dholbach: I have a random sort of question, can I pm for a moment?
<dholbach> sure
<Lutin> dholbach: brw, it seems that code change (not packaging changes) were done by Mirco himself
<Lutin> btw*
<dholbach> Lutin: aha... ok
<dholbach> Lutin: I'm happy with it then
<dholbach> Lutin: thanks for looking into it
<jussi01> thanks dholbach
<Lutin> dholbach: np
<illovae> hello
<illovae> excuse me i a searching an admin of revu.tauware.de ?
<illovae> is it the good channel for this request please ?
<Baby> isn't there an email address?
<Fujitsu> This is the right channel.
<backblue> hi, when i run 'pbuild build file.dsc' i get always, 'hostname: Unknown host', and after it breaks, anyone knows what it means?
<jussi01> backblue: is it not pbuilder build file.dsc ?
<siretart> illovae: how can I help you?
<backblue> jussi01: yes, my mistake.
* siretart waves to Baby :)
<backblue> anyway i fix it, thanks anyway.
<jussi01> :D
<illovae> hello siretart 
<illovae> i am a new in revu, and few days ago i've uploaded a package in revu with dput revu *_source.changes
<illovae> i had signed too my packages
<illovae> -s
<illovae> but it seem blocked here
<illovae> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming > it is larsbiff
<illovae> according to gpocentek , the package isn't block by an human intervention
<illovae> is it anything you can do ? or is normal please ?
<illovae> (and sorry for my bad english, but it is not my native language :) )
<siretart> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<siretart> Validation FAILED!!
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure why it was rejected, but it was probably because you weren't on the REVU keyring at the time.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<StevenK> illovae: Add yourself to  http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<siretart> illovae: did you join ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<illovae> siretart: erf no... okay sorry, i join the team
<illovae> i'm very sorry
<Hobbsee> it's no problem - it just means that your uploads will get rejected :P
<siretart> illovae: no need to be sorry. just join the team and either ping me again to resync the keyring or wait another day
<siretart> if someone has a bit time to think about how to manage packages in bzr, please comment on http://wiki.tauware.de/misc:vcs-packaging
<illovae> Hobbsee: ^^"
<Hobbsee> siretart: revu packages in bzr, you mean?
<illovae> siretart: okay thank you i have already sufficiently annoyed you, i'll wait an another day :)
<illovae> thank you all have a nice day :
<siretart> Hobbsee: packages in bzr in general. I'm encouraging the contributors to maintain the packages in bzr to further faciliate reviewing
<Hobbsee> ah right
<siretart> well, at least the suggestion come up, and I'm currently experimenting what actually is easier
<Adri2000> hmm siretart, did you take a look at my patch for revu?
<siretart> Adri2000: duh, sorry, I forgot :( - where was the patch again?
<Adri2000> http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/revu-fix-for-html-tags-in-comments.patch
<siretart> hm. I remember there have been some issues with cgi.escape. I'd like to check with sistpoty about this
<somerville32> Would that allow javascripts to be executed and hence allowing for CSS exploits and DoS attacks?
<Adri2000> siretart: eh ok, that explains why "from cgi import escape" way already there but commented
<Adri2000> somerville32: with or without the patch you mean?
<somerville32> With the patch to allow for html tags in comments?
<Adri2000> it doesn't allow it
<somerville32> Most excellent.
<StevenK> somerville32: CSS being Cross Site Scripting?
<StevenK> somerville32: Since that is usually contracted to be XSS
<Adri2000> somerville32: currently I think if you put an html tag in a comment, it will be interpreted. escape() replaces < > with &lt; &gt; so that a <...> isn't interpreted as an html tag, it will just be displayed like that "<...>"
<somerville32> The C and the X are so close together :P
<somerville32> Adri2000, Aye.
<somerville32> Adri2000, And you propose to allow a limited set of tags? Does escape allow for exceptions?
<somerville32> Hmm... python.com is not what I was looking for.
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<Adri2000> somerville32: do we need html for writing a comment in revu?
<somerville32> Formatting can be useful in any medium.
<ScottK> somerville32: python.org...
* ScottK has made that mistake too.
* somerville32 nods.
<ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAYWHEREYOUARE everyone.
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
* somerville32 modifies his host file to point python.com to python.org
<ScottK> Hello TheMuso.
<StevenK> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hello StevenK
<somerville32> It is morning here and I feel very much refreshed.
<EtienneG> hey guys
<pochu> Hi EtienneG 
<EtienneG> I uploaded a package a while ago using dput, but the .orig.tar.gz apparently did not get uploaded
<pochu> to REVU?
<EtienneG> yep
<EtienneG> looking at dput man page, I cant see a switch that ask to include the source tarball
<pochu> And did the other files (.dsc, .diff.gz) get uploaded?
<EtienneG> yep, they did get there
<EtienneG> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5104
<xxxxx1> ScottK: hello
<ScottK> Hello xxxxx1
<pochu> EtienneG: was the .orig.tar.gz in the same dir as the .dsc and diff.gz whey you uploaded them?
<EtienneG> I believe so
<EtienneG> I can re-dput to see
<persia> EtienneG: Was the orig.tar.gz listed in the source.changes file?
<pochu> At least it's in the .dsc
<EtienneG> persia, here it is
<EtienneG> it's not there ...
<EtienneG> I debuild -S the package, is there a particular reason why the source tarball would not be in the source.changes ?
<persia> EtienneG: Try using `debuild -S -sa` to make sure it gets included, and re-dput.
<StevenK> EtienneG: With debuild -S, it's up to the tools. -sa will force it, as it were.
<EtienneG> thanks guys, doing so right away
<StevenK> EtienneG: What's the Debian revision?
<EtienneG> StevenK, there is none
<persia> StevenK: I think debuild -S always fails for initial Ubuntu uploads, because -0ubuntu1 <> 1.
<EtienneG> I use -0ubuntu1
<StevenK> That's a Debian revision. :-)
<EtienneG> ok!
<StevenK> persia: Yes, sounds right.
<EtienneG> persia, is there something to do about it ?
* persia thinks debuild needs a patch, but more forking is probably bad.
<persia> EtienneG: Just always use `debuild -S -sa` when you want to include the orig.tar.gz in your package.  This practice requires more attention than the Debian process, but as long as you make the right decision, it will always work.
<ScottK> persia: It's just fine to add Ubuntu specific changes as long as you volunteer to maintain them ... (which is probably bad in your book).
<StevenK> It isn't debuild that makes the decision.
<StevenK> It's dpkg, and we already fork that.
<StevenK> More correctly, dpkg-genchanges.
<EtienneG> here it is, re-uploaded with the orig.tar.gz
<EtienneG> if someone have a minute to look at my bzr-gtk upload, that would be nice
<EtienneG> right now, bzr is complaining about version mismatch systematically, it is annoying for those using gutsy
<persia> ScottK: Depends on the package.  I already do that for a couple packages, but some Debian maintainers are happier about forks than others.  I generally don't like to make Ubuntu-specific changes that won't go back for core packages (although I'm likely to make an exception for devscripts anyway, as I want a better /usr/bin/mass-bug).
<StevenK> EtienneG: Do you have an account with our lovely mentors? One can be yours for the cost of a pizza and a six pack of beer. :-P
<EtienneG> StevenK, that's certainly affordable enough!
* StevenK grins.
<EtienneG> I do not plan to make a lot of upload, it's mainly just bzr-gtk for the moment
<persia> EtienneG: Concentration is great.  Some packages need more attention, and someone who knows them well can be very useful, especially for Debian and upstream coordination.
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: just imagine a beowolf cluster of 6-pack pizzas.
* Fujitsu sends Q-FUNK back to /., then heads to bed.
<EtienneG> persia, I ended up with maintaining the bzr/bzrtools/bzr-gtk completely by accident ...
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: :D
<EtienneG> I am not necessarily the best person to maintain these, but someone have to do ti
<persia> EtienneG: I understand.  One learns.  I started because my joystick didn't work with vegastrike, and I've now had three or four patches taken upstream for vegastrike, and actually understand why sound doesn't work in the current version (although I don't yet understand how to fix it).
* ScottK merges spamassassin...
* StevenK merges something more fun, valgrind
<TheMuso> StevenK: Lovely.
<StevenK> TheMuso: ?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Merging valgrind.
<pschulz01> TheMuso: Is it possible to have separate 'conffiles' per binary package? (eg. 'debian/packagename.conffiles')
<TheMuso> pschulz01: Yes.
<pschulz01> Cool..
<PriceChild> Hey persia, sorry I didn't realise I could/should use linda and lintian on the changes file from pbuilder. I've fixed all but point 5 about - and haven't asked anyone to check over copyright yet. Could you please explain point 5 to me again as I don't understand.
* persia looks
<PriceChild> Thanks :)
<ScottK> Is it ever permited to change previous debian/changelog entries?  The new spamassassin is missing the empty line between the last change and the maintainer's e-mail address and is obviously missing a return (has two changes on one line)...
<persia> ScottK: No.  That's considered revisionist history.
<StevenK> Some people do it.
<persia> PriceChild: `lintian -iIv gizmod_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes` will give you a full explanation (I don't know the relevant linda call), but basically, you need to tell the processor whether it is a minus sign "\-" or a hyphen "\(hy", as it gets confused.  Use minus for all the switches, and hyphen in the descriptions.
<StevenK> Mostly, it's frowned upon.
<StevenK> What does -I for lintian do?
<StevenK> linda -i gives more information, -v is verbose
<persia> StevenK: it's like -t I
<PriceChild> persia, right i'll re check again with -iIv and try and figure out the man page :)
<PriceChild> thanks
<StevenK> Oh, that's right.
<StevenK> Show checks that are Informational
<StevenK> linda -iv -t E,W,I gizmod_3.1-0ubuntu1_i386.changes
<persia> StevenK: Linda doesn't talk to me.  I try with `linda -f long -t E,W,X,I foo.changes`, but she always remains silent :(
<PriceChild> persia, ah and now it tells me about the man page! :D
<StevenK> persia: Add -v
<ScottK> Well it doesn't cause an error with dpkg-parsechangelog, so I'll leave it.  Thanks for the advice.
<PriceChild> persia, do you think I need to keep the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field in control as I haven't really used any of his packaging?
<persia> StevenK: She's still quiet.  Perhaps I'm just not hitting any checks.  I'll hunt the rules.
<StevenK> persia: Replace -v with -d
<StevenK> Oh, actually, -vv will have her tell you she is unpacking and such
<persia> PriceChild: Ubuntu packages must have XSBC-Original-Maintainer, unless the Maintainer field is a specific person (not a list) with an @ubuntu.com address.  You can set yourself as Original-Maintainer (or Maintainer) if you like.
<persia> StevenK: I think she just doesn't have anything to say.
<PriceChild> Ok cool thanks.
<StevenK> persia: It must be because she's shy.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Thanks for the explanation.  I wondered :)
<StevenK> persia: :-)
<Hobbsee> if most recent uploader == persia, ...
<persia> Hobbsee: What did I do now?
<bmm> Hi MOTU team. If anybody has the time to take a look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=4751 I'll be online to respond.
<StevenK> I think Hobbsee is quoting Linda source code. :-)
<Hobbsee> exactly 
<persia> StevenK: Ah I see.  I also see she has things to say about iolanguage, so I suspect Hobbsee is right.
<StevenK> iolanguage?
<bmm> Hey, that's my package. That is one that still needs to be done correctly.
<persia> StevenK: bmm's package (that I don't really have time to review right now).
<StevenK> Ah, iolanguage being a package name. Right.
<bmm> Oh, wait, although iolanguage needs some more help and comments, one of my other packages http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5154 (ccbuild) should be ready for it's first advocates
* ScottK pushes the "Trust the Debian Maintainer" button and moves on...
<bmm> ScottK: where can I find that button, count me in ;-)
<ScottK> Sorry.  It's inside the squishy part of my head.  I don't like other people touching me there.
<bmm> Rest assured, even my smallest finger can't reach that far into my own head ;-)
<ScottK> bmm: You might want to borrow the LongPointyStick.
<StevenK> That could be fatal.
<StevenK> For both of you.
<StevenK> Drat. valgrind FTBFS.
<Riddell> what's the best way to turn a .tar.bz into a orig.tar.gz?
<bmm> Riddell: I would use dh_make -f ../something.tar.gz
<bmm> Although that will leave you with some side effects, it will generate an orig.tar.gz ;-)
<StevenK> Riddell: bunzip2 ; gzip -9 ; mv
<persia> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball has a good example.
<PriceChild> Is there any whizzo at debian/copyright who could take a look at my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 and tell me what else needs to be done please?
<ScottK> If he'd stuck around, I'd have had a comment for him ...
<persia> ScottK: I'll take your comment (if it's about the gizmod copyright).
<ScottK> persia: I was just going to mention that it's considered a good practice (but not REALLY mandatory) these days to have a line at then end asserting copyright over the Debian packaging and how that packaging is licensed.
<persia> ScottK: He put that in the middle, as the Apache license was really long.
<ScottK> persia: I was also going to suggest he grep -i -R copyright * to make sure he got everything.  
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I didn't see that then.  I'd suggest it get moved to the end as that's where I've always seen it.  Probably not worth another upload if the package is otherwise good.
<persia> ScottK: I think so.  The part I couldn't help him with was about the COPYING in the root directory.  Only a very little bit of the code is actually GPL.
<ScottK> OK.  I didn't download the whole package to look at that.  The key is to be comprehensive and make sure everything is listed.  If there's a mix of ASF and GPL code you do need to make sure nothing is to closely linked as those licenses are incompatible.
<persia> ScottK: There are exceptions.  I'm not strong enough with copyright to say it's done, but it needs a deep review by someone who is, as it mixes Apache, GPL, and the FSF Autoconf license.
<ScottK> OK.  I'm not that person then.
<ScottK> persia: You've been a MOTU longer than me, you ought to be able to handle this ;-)
<persia> Oh, yeah, and the X license :)
<persia> ScottK: By what, 3 days?
<ScottK> persia: 4.
<bmm> If lintian errors with a "bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy" it's still ok right?
* persia sits corrected
<persia> bmm: Yes.  You can safely ignore "bad distribution" if you know you have a good distribution, and ignore all the NMU warnings.
<bmm> persia: if I have an Original-Maintainer, which I do, right?
<persia> bmm: Could you rephrase the question please?  I don't understand.
<bmm> Of, that ignoring the NMU is ok, as long as you define the "Original-Maintainer:" in your control file.
<ScottK> bmm: Unrelated.  NMU is a Debian thing.  Ubuntu doesn't use it.
<persia> bmm: Those are actually two different things.  Even if you forget XSBC-Original-Maintainer, the NMU warnings still appear.  Separately, don't forget XSBC-Original-Maintainer :)
<bmm> :-D I know, but they are related a bit right? Because NMU is "NonMaintainerUpload" which means that you have a different upload maintainer and original maintainer.
<Riddell> that'll happen regardless unless you are the debian maintainer
<persia> bmm: The NMU warnings happen when the Changed-By value (name & email of last changelog entry) doesn't match the Maintainer value.  It's different.
<bmm> Ah, so that's it.
<persia> Riddell: It also doesn't happen for Ubuntu maintainers (there are a couple from Ubuntu-only packages).
<Riddell> sure
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<bmm> hi
<alfredoj69> Hi everybody, my name is Alfredo and I started working to become a MOTU
<ScottK> Hi alfredoj69
<ScottK> Hello DarkSun88
<DarkSun88> ScottK: Hello :)
<alfredoj69> Hi ScottK
<bmm> alfredoj69 cool, good luck! Get used to the question: can you look at my package? ;-)
<alfredoj69> ooh for sure
<alfredoj69> hopefully I can come out with some good fixes and packages
<alfredoj69> I have a question, I am looking at a list of needc-packaging bugs
<alfredoj69> the bugs that have Status=Confirmed is because already somebody is working on that?
<persia> alfredoj69: When someone is working on it, it will be assigned to that person.  If a bug is not assigned, feel free to assign yourself and start work.  It's considered good practice to set the bug to "In-Progress" as well.
<alfredoj69>  persia, thank you for the info
<persia> alfredoj69: No problem.  Ask back here if you have trouble.
<alfredoj69> Once I have a package ready, who  is the right person to send it to?
<persia> alfredoj69: Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU for information on getting review of your packages.
<alfredoj69> persia, thanks again
<joejaxx> Good Morning All
<bmm> morning
<alfredoj69> Good morning, joejaxx,bmm 
<leonel> Heeeelllllloooooooooooooooo!
<alfredoj69> Hola, leonel
<leonel> eit
<bmm> Well, gotto go again. Laters!
<Toadstool> dholbach: unfortunately, I have been kinda swamped at work lately and I don't think I will have time to do any mentorship during the next 2 months or so. I do plan to once work gets a little less crazy.
<Toadstool> hi everybody 
<persia> hey Toadstool
<dholbach> Toadstool: ok, thanks
<Toadstool> hi persia !
<dholbach> Toadstool: I purged MOTU/Mentors so you should get less mail about that
<dholbach> Toadstool: let us know if you're interested in joining the mentors again :)
<Toadstool> alright, thanks
* dholbach hugs Toadstool
<Toadstool> dholbach: yep, don't worry, I'll be back ! :p
<dholbach> hehe :)
<xxxxx1> someone here know one good pgp keyserver software?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Let's merge! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mentoring
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<persia> dholbach: Did you mean MOTU/Mentoring?
<dholbach> oops
<dholbach> yes
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe/Multiverse Repository Maintainers | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Let's merge! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/
<Toadstool> persia: you're a MOTU now, right? congrats'
<dholbach> narf
<persia> Toadstool: Thanks.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO | Let's merge! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | Want to join MOTU? Try helping out on these: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/+mentoring | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<dholbach> thanks persia
* dholbach hugs persia
* persia squirms happily
<Toadstool> alright, got to work, I'll see you guys later, hopefully ;)
<dholbach> seeya
* dholbach will announce the new mentoring later today
<persia> dholbach: Is there a ML for ~motu-mentoring-reception?
<dholbach> I'm really really happy about it
<jikanter> what is this new motuing thing dholbach?
<dholbach> persia: no, nothing yet
<dholbach> jikanter: mentoring :)
<dholbach> jikanter: a new process for making it easier to become motu and to make it easier to mentor a new contributor
<dholbach> jikanter: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<joejaxx> dholbach: should i go through the contributor process?
<joejaxx> or is it for completely new people
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me where i can get the upstream code of clamtk
<dholbach> joejaxx: rather for people who are really new to people, tools, processes and all that
<joejaxx> dholbach: oh ok
<dholbach> vijay2000: check debian/copyright of the source package
<dholbach> vijay2000: but it should be http://clamtk.sf.net
<dholbach> welcome vijay2000 :-)
<vijay2000> oh and the source of clamtk resides in /usr/bin/clamtk am i right
<vijay2000> thanks for your support
<dholbach> vijay2000: just run     apt-get source clamtk      to get the source
<vijay2000> i regret myself for not joining the open source a bit earlier ..i already lost 6 years of my life working with windows
<tonyyarusso> only 6?
<vijay2000> Reading package lists... Done
<vijay2000> Building dependency tree... Done
<vijay2000> E: Unable to find a source package for clamtk
<vijay2000> this is what i get when i try to get the source
<persia> vijay2000: Do you have a deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list that includes universe?
<vijay2000> let me check
<dholbach> you can change that in "gksu software-properties-gtk" too
<vijay2000> you mean this line "deb-src http://in.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe"
<persia> vijay2000: That would be the line.  I'm not sure why else you might not be able to find the source.
<vijay2000> got it
<ScottK> vijay2000: There are much newer versions in later releases.  clamtk definitely could use some work.
<vijay2000> i had that line commented
<vijay2000> now i get this error
<vijay2000> sh: dpkg-source: command not found
<vijay2000> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu1.dsc' failed.
<vijay2000> Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.
<vijay2000> E: Child process failed
* ScottK thinks you need to install devscripts
<vijay2000> what is that
<vijay2000> i am a new bie to linux who knows only the basics of linux
<Nafallo> Description: Scripts to make the life of a Debian Package maintainer easier
<vijay2000> how to install it 
<persia> vijay2000: `aptitude show devscriots` will tell you about the package, and `sudo aptitude install devscripts` will install it.
<vijay2000> i am learning a lot of new things today thanks guys
<dholbach> vijay2000: is it your correct mail address in the changelog?
<vijay2000> no 
<vijay2000> it refers to localhost
<dholbach> I have this in my ~/.bashrc 
<dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
<dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
<vijay2000> oh let me try that
<dholbach> if you add something similar there and run         source ~/.bashrc           and try it again you should be up and running
* dholbach checks if that's wiki-fied somewhere
<dholbach> nice: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics seems to have a bunch of answers
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have them in MOTU/FAQ or in the packaging guide somewhere
* highvoltage saves that as bookmark
* leonel makes a tatoo in his forehead  with that link 
<leonel> the problem is that I'll need a mirror  to read it ...
* persia suggests that most of the topics in MOTU/School are recommended reading
* leonel feels that  has been  sent to school   ...
<leonel> :)
<asimon> Greetings, I have a simple package (kde-style-qtcurve) for which I use cdbs. During the build aclocal and automake are called. If I build this package with 'debuild && debuild -S -sa' I get two Makefile.in in the diff.gz. If I build it with pbuilder these Makefile.ins don't appear in the diff.gz. (both gutsy environments) Is this normal behaviour?
<dholbach> asimon: doesn't upstream provide a tarball where Makefile.in and friends are already generated?
<dholbach> I mean... is it really necessary to run aclocal, automake and friends during the build?
<asimon> dholbach: They are generated, but aclocal and automake-1.9 get called by 'make' and thus 2 Makefile.ins get updated.
<dholbach> weird, did you change the Makefile.am files or something?
<asimon> The funny thing is they don't appear in the diff.gz when build with pbuilder although the build process seems exactly the same under pbuilder.
<dholbach> that makes perfect sense
<asimon> dholbach: No, I don't do any changes on the Makefiles.*
<dholbach> do you build-depends on aclocal and/or automake?
<dholbach> if not, they should not be in the pbuilder chroot during the build and can't be used
<asimon> dholbach: Yes, I have to build-depend on automake-1.9, otherwise building fails because automake-1.9 isn't found.
<vijay2000> it works
<dholbach> vijay2000: great
<dholbach> asimon: there must be something weird with the tarball like timestamps of Makefile.in vs timestamp of Makefile.am or something
<dholbach> asimon: if you can't change it without lots of hassle, I'd think it's acceptable to have a diff of Makefile.in
<asimon> dharrigan: Hmm... the timestamp of Makefile.am is older then that of Makefile.in.
<dholbach> asimon: hm, then it must be something else
<asimon> dholbach: The issue is that I got a comment on revu about 'extra' files in diff.gz (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5235). A possible way to remove these Makefile.ins from diff.gz would be to save the original ones before build and restore them later before the diff is generated. But I think that would clutter the rules file in an ugly way.
<dholbach> I agree with you
<dholbach> it's something that should be fixed upstream
<asimon> dholbach: Okay, I will mail upstream and the author of the comment about this. Thank you very much.
<dholbach> what you *could* do, is add a patch to debian/patches in which you run aclocal + automake (+ whatever else is needed) yourself
<vijay2000> what is cdbs
<asimon> dholbach: Ah yes, that's something I did'nt think of. I will try this. Thanks
<dholbach> asimon: cdbs-edit-patch 01-run-autotools ... aclocal; automake; rm -r autom4te* ... ctrl-d  should do the trick
<persia> vijay2000: The Common Debian Build System.  It's also a package, and when installed, it includes (limited) documentation.
<dholbach> vijay2000: cdbs is a set of scripts that make maintainers life easier
<dholbach> vijay2000: it's used to write the debian/rules file (which is like a Makefile used to build a package)
<vijay2000> oh
<dholbach> https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml has more info about that
<LaserJock> dholbach: you might want to use /MOTU/Sandbox for temp wiki pages. That way you can just delete them when you move them into a permanent home
<vijay2000> i am getting the following error when i debuild
<vijay2000> vijay@vijay-desktop:~/Desktop/clamtk-2.32/debian$ debuild -S -sa
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is clamtk
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 2.17-0ubuntu2
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
<vijay2000>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<dholbach> LaserJock: aha? why should I use Sandbox?
<dholbach> vijay2000: hold on :-)
<LaserJock> because that's a place to put "junk" stuff
<vijay2000> ok
<tritium> Hi guys :)
<LaserJock> so you don't have to redirect all the time
<LaserJock> hi tritium 
<dholbach>  Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<dholbach>   signfile clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu2.dsc Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
<dholbach>  gpg: skipped "Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<dholbach>  gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<vijay2000> i think i overflooded 
<dholbach>  pub   1024D/D77BB7A8 2007-05-22
<dholbach>  uid                  Vijay (Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>
<dholbach>  sub   1024g/F1804511 2007-05-22
<dholbach> can somebody help vijay2000 with that?
<LaserJock> does it need the (Vijay) part?
<dholbach> he seems to have the key alright, but debsign seems to still be unhappy
<vijay2000> yes please help
<\sh> no secret key or wrong name and uid
<dholbach> vijay2000: can you try to add that to DEBFULLNAME?
<vijay2000> u mean the vijay in the brackets
<dholbach> yes
<tritium> How are you, dholbach?
<dholbach> hey tritium
<dholbach> fine fine - how are YOU?
<tritium> Not bad, thanks.
<dholbach> great :-)
<vijay2000> i have given as export DEBFULLNAME='Vijay(Vijay)'
<vijay2000> export DEBEMAIL='vijay2000@gmail.com'
<vijay2000> is that fine
<tritium> I'm trying to get up to Portland.  Maybe I'll see you :)
<vijay2000> i am still getting the same error
<vijay2000> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
<vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.17-0ubuntu2.dsc Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
<vijay2000> gpg: skipped "Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<vijay2000> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<vijay2000> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<vijay2000> debuild: fatal error at line 791:
<LaserJock> vijay2000: ok try debuild -S -sa -kD77BB7A8
<vijay2000> now i get 
<vijay2000> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
<vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.32-0Ubuntu1.dsc D77BB7A8
<vijay2000> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
<vijay2000> user: "Vijay (Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>"
<vijay2000> 1024-bit DSA key, ID D77BB7A8, created 2007-05-22
<LaserJock> vijay2000: do you run seahorse?
<vijay2000> brb
<dholbach> siretart: mind if I make you an Administrator of the ~revu team? (that's for the bzr based process)
<dholbach> I'll wait with announcing the new mentoring process a bit - seems we might soon get ubuntu-motu-mentors@ list which might help with the process
<dholbach> also it'd be nice to get some more mentoring slots
<dholbach> we have 16 mentoring slots now, 13 of which are taken
<dholbach> ok 12 are taken
<mumbly> raphink, hello ! :o)
<dholbach> hey mumbly
<dholbach> mumbly: you just joined the REVU team right?
<mumbly> right !
<dholbach> mumbly: so you want to use bzr for packaging?
<raphink> yop mumbly
<mumbly> maybe ... :)
<dholbach> aha
* dholbach calls it a day
<dholbach> see you tomorrow
<jussi01> hello motu's
<jussi01> I have another small problem, I have been building my package, and have made a man page for the package. however cdbs doesnt pick up that the man page is there, how do i fix this?
<Riddell> jussi01: you have to install the manpage explicitly
<asac> jussi01: adding manpage to debian/packagename.manpages ?
<jussi01> asac: I have done that
<jussi01> Riddell: how so?
<Riddell> as asac says
<QuickSilverII> Has anyone packaged INSPircd yet
<Riddell> that's debhelper which should do that, not cdbs
<asac> jussi01: you probably lack to include debhelper.mk
<jussi01> ahhh.... so it shouldnt be manpage.1 ??
<jussi01> asac: i have that in rules, yes
<jussi01> ok, thanks people, ill have a look at it. Im heading out now. see you tomorrow
<highvoltage> Riddell: I installed the KDE 3.5.7 packages today and it fixed a whole bunch of Kontact issues. you guys rock! :)
<nixternal> highvoltage: what types of issues did you notice get fixed?
<highvoltage> nixternal: if you opened two OOo attachements in kmail, for example, the second wouldn't open
<nixternal> ahh..cool
<highvoltage> nixternal: it seemed that kmail just overwrote the first attachment, andOOo didn't like it
<nixternal> good deal. maybe I am not using kontact/kmail hard enough
<highvoltage> it also sometimes crashed when applying large amount of filters. that seems better now.
<nixternal> in the past year, I bet I can count less than 5 crashes
<nixternal> highvoltage: yes, and that is when I noticed my crashes actually
<highvoltage> I use thunderbird, but for the government work we use Kontact, since it integrates with Kolab
<highvoltage> Thunderbird last crashed on me in 2003 :)
<nixternal> what government do you work for that uses Kontact?
<nixternal> let along Kolab
<highvoltage> The South African government
<nixternal> s/along/alone
<nixternal> that is sweet
<highvoltage> we're systematically going to convert the whole governmtn
<highvoltage> *government
<highvoltage> we're only starting now, it's exciting and scary, but I love it :)
<nixternal> that totally rocks...our government (you know the corrupt arse US one), they still use MS Mail at a majority of their locations
<nixternal> the only people who have changed are those who are on the Navy/Marine Corp network. And that is so locked down it is insane
<highvoltage> yep, current status is the same here. Outlook is everywhere.
<nixternal> I didn't say outlook...I said MS Mail :)  from what I take, the government has the source or something to it, and they have their own secure version
<nixternal> MS Mail from like 3.1
<nixternal> lol
<highvoltage> we've had some resistance because of kontact's bugginess, but the kde 3.5.7 version fixes all of that for us, so it's quite cool.
<highvoltage> aaaaah, THAT MS Mail!!!
<ScottK> nixternal: The people I work with are all on Exchange/Outlook and hating life.
<highvoltage> As in... Microsoft Internet Mail :)
<nixternal> haha yes
<highvoltage> ouch
<nixternal> Exchange is nice, if you get someone who can set it up correctly...but all of my jobs pretty much use IMAP now
<nixternal> only problem, I have never seen anyone set it up correctly
<nixternal> and most companies purchase the exchange licenses, and just use the POP3 portions, they don't use any of the funky *sharing
<vijay2000> laserjock : i am back
<ScottK> Exchange is nice if you have an unlimited hardware budget for the server and you protect it behind a proper MTA so it isn't exposed to the internet...
<nixternal> I used to maintain and exhcange server or 2 in my day..and lets just say, I never did it right either
<highvoltage> our problem is not so much with the mail component, but with the calendaring component
<nixternal> ya, calendaring is the big thing these days
<highvoltage> there's not much in ubuntu/gnu/linux that does calendaring well
<nixternal> highvoltage: how is the calendaring with Kolab?
<nixternal> I have yet to mess with it
<highvoltage> nixternal: it's the only thing that works properly
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> Heh.  With the latest set of TZ changes in the US, all my customers had terrible problems with their Exchange/Outlook, but Kontact and Ubuntu had no problems at all.
<nixternal> I need to get a decent machine and run a Kolab server here
<highvoltage> nixternal: kolab is currently broken in universe though, so you have to install from source
<nixternal> go figure
<crimsun> yep, employer uses Microsoft SMTPSVC.
<highvoltage> I plan to fix Kolab in universe when I'm a motu
<ScottK> highvoltage: Fix it now and we'll help you upload it.  It'll help you become a MOTU.
<nixternal> and crimsun, you use the shiney new Vista superduper desktop featuring KDEs Aero look
* ScottK feels his laptop heat up as it compiles the first try at clamav-alt for backporting...
<nixternal> heh
<crimsun> nixternal: heh, if only. I'll actually be using much more ancient tools.
<highvoltage> ScottK: ok, it will take some work, but I will certainly put some effort into it
<nixternal> my laptop goes between 48C and 55C
<ScottK> highvoltage: Great.  We're here to help you.
<nixternal> it doesn't go higher, and it doesn't go lower
<highvoltage> :)
<ScottK> My laptop goes between leg temperature and I think I'll set it down now because that hurts.
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> I have a cooly pad I use when I sit on the couch or in bed with it
<nixternal> otherwise my lap would be sweating
* ScottK is a heat sink for his laptop.
<nixternal> OK people, I am goingt o run out for a second, and when I come back I expect to see all the links I need for packaging a library (libhttp) in Debian
<nixternal> back in a few
<ScottK> nixternal: You are welcome to expect that.
<highvoltage> talk to you guys gain later, I'm on a real slow gprs connection and it seems to be getting slowr. thanks for the motivation!
<Riddell> highvoltage: great
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me how to confirm a open pgp key
<vijay2000> i have galemo and firefox
<crimsun> galemo?
<crimsun> did you mean `galeon'?
<vijay2000> yes galeon
<crimsun> well if you /part, we can't assist you...
<dabaR> :)
<tsmithe> man-di_, did you get a look at wired?
<ucap>  /rename
<PriceChild> Any motu's willing to take a look over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 ? persia mentioned "special attention to the copyright provisions and the compliance with python policy." would be good :)
<LaserJock> ohh, looks like a lot of PPA stuff got done
* PriceChild sat in on a little demo of PPA at uds and really liked the idea.
<pochu> No activity... That's the power of the Champions League :)
<DktrKranz> ahah
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, really?
<DktrKranz> is it available for the masses?
<xxxxx1> hello LaserJock 
<zul> LaserJock: hmm?
<LaserJock> it's getting there
<crevette> hello
<crevette> I need some pointer to package some fonts
<crevette> I seen that fonts packages uses defoma rules
<crimsun> please read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-May/000968.html first.
<crevette> Okay I'll do this rigtht away
<crevette> tx
<crevette> crimsun: you're involved in fonts packaging ?
<crimsun> crevette: haven't been in quite some time
<crevette> I ned also advice from someone from legal
<crevette> because I don't have knowledge in that and the fonts licence is GPl with a restriction
<crimsun> it's best to raise that on the Alioth pkg-fonts mailing list
<slomo> crevette: still those redhat fonts?
<LaserJock> my goodness, it's slomo!
<crevette> slomo: I didn't had time to consult someone until now
<slomo> crevette: people in #gnome-debian talked about the license and afaik result was that it's non-free and that they wanted to contact redhat about it
<slomo> crevette: iirc other distros had a problem with it too... but i didn't really follow the discussion
<slomo> hi LaserJock :)
<nixternal> OK...I truly dislike building a lib package from scratch
<crimsun> why? It builds character.
<ScottK> Trying to change the name of the clamav package for the backport alternative is currently building character in this quarter.
<nixternal> builds character? headaches != character :)
<ScottK> The character building part is that I've not thrown anything, broken anything, or lost my temper.
* ScottK really thought it would build this last time...
<dothebart> ScottK: i've added the commitmessage to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5180&text=from+SVN%3A%0D%0Ar5173+%7C+ajc+%7C+2007-05-23+10%3A29%3A48+-0400+%28Wed%2C+23+May+2007%29+%7C+5+lines%0D%0AChanged+paths%3A%0D%0AM+%2Ftrunk%2Fcitadel%2Fopenldap%2Fcitadel.schema%0D%0AM+%2Ftrunk%2Fcitadel%2Fopenldap%2Frfc2739.schema%0D%0A%0D%0ARemoved+some+spurious+copyright+info+from+the+openldap%0D%0Aschema.+This+text+applied+to+the+RFC+from+w
<dothebart> ugh.
<dothebart> whats that.
<dothebart> sorry all.
<dothebart> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5180
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> dothebart: I would urge you to concentrate on libical first.
<ScottK> dothebart: Since that's a build-dep for citadel, it'll have to get uploaded, get throught NEW queue processing, and build before we could upload citadel in any case.
<dothebart> yes, i just posted your comments on that licensing issue on the citadel devel room...
<ScottK> OK
<dothebart> and this was the reaction.
<ScottK> From a critical path perspective, the build-deps are all that matter at this point.
<dothebart> ok. 
<dothebart> but that issue on citadel can be thought as solved?
<ScottK> I actually didn't look yet.
<dothebart> i just want to know if i have to take further actions on that.
<ScottK> I looked and based on your comment, I would say yes.  I'd need to see the actuall wording to know for sure.
<ScottK> Ubuntu is pretty particular about getting the copyright stuff correct and you don't find out until you get to the front of the NEW queue (after some wait) if the archive admin is happy or not.  Better to work really hard up front to be complete and correct.
<dothebart> http://tar.gzipped.org/citadel.schema
<dothebart> and 
<dothebart> http://tar.gzipped.org/rfc2739.schema
<ScottK> dothebart: http://tar.gzipped.org/rfc2739.schema now lacks any mention of licensing.  It needs at least the GPL mention you have in the other one.
<dothebart> wouldn't that be implicit with the package?
<ScottK> Why not mention it and avoid risk of confusion?  This is in a grey area and may or may not be OK in the end.  Why take a chance?
<dothebart> ok, i'll post it over.
<ScottK> Did you understand my point on libical about the COPYING file OK?
<dothebart> not yet totaly, didn't have the time to view it with concentration...
<ScottK> OK.
<nixternal> http://www.softorchestra.com/downloads/libhttp-1.1.tar.gz
<ScottK> Ideally when you package something, the only place you should touch in the package is inside the debian dir.
<dothebart> just returned from a 64 km ride with the roadbike after riding 20 km home after work ;)
<nixternal> anyone feel like looking through that and telling me just how involved the debian/rules file would be
<nixternal> I have everything else already configged...rules is my only problem...more than likely would have to reconfigure Makefile (dpatch/patch)
<ScottK> If you have to repack the original tarball, there are rules you have to follow.  Since you are upstream, put the COPYING file in the original tarball.  It'll be easier.
<ScottK> dothebart: Watch out, excercise is dangerous.
<dothebart> well, being upstream i don't need the patches dir as long as my changes go well with the rest of the users.
<dothebart> ok.
<dothebart> i think there soon will be a .30 of libical available on upstream, and it looks as if evolution is going to use it again instead of their fork.
<ScottK> OK.  So you are not upstream for libical then?
<dothebart> well, i can become with one question to the citadel team leader.
<dothebart> but, as long as my changes are reasonable, they won't be questioned.
<ScottK> OK.  Then I'd ask them to add the COPYING file in their upstream tarball.
<xxxxx1> bye all
<ScottK> I uploaded my work in progress clamav-alt package to REVU.  Comments/help appreciated at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5254
<ScottK> See you all later.  Time for me to go play Daddy for the evening.
<fretchen> hello, where is a nice forum to discuss problems with packiging the examples of the documentation?
<tudenbart> re.
<PriceChild> Any motu's willing to take a look over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 ? persia mentioned "special attention to the copyright provisions and the compliance with python policy." would be good :)
<dothebart> ScottK: by motu, do you mean signing that paper?
<dothebart> aka being ubuntero? i did that.
<ScottK> No.  Gimme a sec, I'll get you the link
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU ?
<ScottK> No, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<ScottK> dothebart: Read that and it'll tell you how to fill out Maintainer.
<dothebart> ok, tnx.
<ScottK> See you later.
<dothebart> yes, SIG_SLEEP
<beuno> does anyone know what would be requiered to setup an offcial mirror of the Ubuntu repos?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-24
<jmg> an ftp
<beuno> theirs no official mirror in Argentina, and I was wondering if there was any requieremnts
<LaserJock> anybody know if you have to have a core-dev OK a sync request of a Main package?
<beuno> (as in bandwidth, for example)
<jmg> http://debcentral.org/modules/news/index.php?storytopic=6&start=120
<beuno> jmg: so just setup the mirror, and publish it on the wiki?
<Nafallo> beuno: #ubuntu-mirrors is probably a better place to ask. but I'd guess most people are asleep now.
<beuno> Nafallo: right, didn't know that even existed, I'll hang around there, thanks!
<pochu> LaserJock: the wiki page says any core should, yes. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<Nafallo> np :-). would be good to have one I think :-)
<beuno> Nafallo: I've got a 10mbit connection available and some hardware, I'm just not sure if it will sufice  :D
<Nafallo> hehe, not me either, but I live in Sweden :-)
<ajmitch> morning
<Nafallo> we have atleast three gigabit sites and the official at 2gbit :-P
<beuno> Nafallo: heh, I don't see anything even remotely close being available here  :(
<Nafallo> indeed. but Sweden has fiber everywhere so... :-)
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<ajmitch> hey TheMuso 
<Lutin> hey TheMuso 
<Hobbsee> morning all
<ajmitch> hey Hobbsee 
<jmg> hi
<ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee, ScottK.
<Hobbsee> :)
<ScottK> Hello TheMuso
<TheMuso> grrr!!
* TheMuso hates mirrors when they have MD5Sum mismatches.
* jmg hates mirrors when they make him look fat
<ajmitch> hm, almost lunchtime already
<ScottK> If anyone from the Australia/NZ contigent is up for it, I put the "almost builds" edition of clamav-alt up on REVU... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5254
<jmg> ajmitch: yes
<ajmitch> the morning goes fast when you only get into work at 9:30
<ajmitch> (and was up until nearly 4am)
<jmg> ajmitch: were
<ajmitch> pirates of the caribbean 3 wasn't too bad
<ScottK> Was it better than #2?
* jmg is going tomorrow
<ajmitch> ScottK: yeah, I think so
<ajmitch> it was long though
<jmg> did they leave it open for pirates4?
<ajmitch> jmg: oh yes
<ScottK> Did it have an actual ending as opposed to we're just pausing in the story for a moment?
* ScottK hasn't seen it and I know there's an opening for a #4...
<ajmitch> ScottK: thankfully it did, but it was still left open
<ScottK> Of course.  It has to be left open.
<ajmitch> so it would work just having 3 movies, rather than the 1 & 1/2 that we did have
<ajmitch> since this one was nearly 3 hours
<ScottK> Any opinion on the violence level compared to #2?  #2 was IMO marginal for my 13 year old to go to.
<ajmitch> fairly violent
* TheMuso wonders if aurora is being hammered in any particular way...
<ajmitch> not too much blood & guts though
<ajmitch> yay, ia32-libs conflict
<tritium> ajmitch: you've already seen 3?
<tritium> It's not even open here yet!
<ajmitch> tritium: I'm in NZ, of course
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it shouldnt be today..
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
<ajmitch> saw it at midnight
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: however, i've been using it extensively in the past few days
<TheMuso> Interesting... I can't seem to connect. Its just sitting there doing nothing.
* tritium will see it tomorrow
<TheMuso> bah! Conection timed out!
* ajmitch wonders where his upload disappeared to
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i was having slight problems with that yesterday too - not sure if he's torrenting or something
* ajmitch uploaded > 20 minutes ago, no mail yet
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm thinking it's delayed
<TheMuso> Are all these net oddities a coincidence?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: possibly
<Hobbsee> some of kde stuff has come back delayed
<ajmitch> launchpad slow, or just the mailserver?
* ajmitch will look after lunch, don't care now
<LaserJock> hmm, 144 updates for my sarge box
<Ademan> anyone familiar with frostwire?  is there an itp for that or what?
<PriceChild> Any motu's willing to take a look over http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 ? persia mentioned "special attention to the copyright provisions and the compliance with python policy." would be good :)
<fernando> hey all
<Hobbsee> hiya
<popey> moo
<welshbyte> This channel does not have supercow powers
<joejaxx> :P
<Hobbsee> hi popey 
<joejaxx> welshbyte: how can it not? we use apt
<jmg> -vvvvvvvv moo
<popey> :)
<LaserJock> I don't suppose there is anybody with a gutsy amd64 pbuilder and a fast connection around?
<welshbyte> :)
<tritium> LaserJock: I intend to set one up very soon
<tritium> (maybe this weekend)
<LaserJock> that's not soon enough :-)
<tritium> heh, sorry ;)
<LaserJock> I need one NOW!
<LaserJock> well, I think I'll just do this without
<LaserJock> there's still plenty of time to fix Main packages I break, right?
<LaserJock> ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: last resort: qemu-x64 
<welshbyte> LaserJock: sure, while you're fixing the rest of them ;)
* welshbyte ducks
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: StevenK's at home, else i''d suggest him.
<Hobbsee> er, at work
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: imbrandon's aurora is i386, right?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: what do you need to do?
<LaserJock> well, I'm doing a merge of gcompris
<LaserJock> and one of the ubuntu changes was to fix a python 64bit problem
<LaserJock> I'm basically positive that it's fixed in the new Debian version
<LaserJock> but I still feel a tad silly saying "Yep, builds fine on my i386" ;-)
<LaserJock> it's not a big deal though
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: put the sources somewhere, and i can get it to build on StevenK's machine
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: (being that he cant/wont add people whne he's not at home)
<LaserJock> is bandwidth a concern for him?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: local mirror
<LaserJock> well, it's a debian package
<LaserJock> .orig.tar.gz is ~100MB
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<micahcowan> Is there any reason why I shouldn't have my soruces.list deb lines point at feisty, while my deb-src lines point at gutsy? If I'm patching stuff, I'll typically want to pull the latter.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: do you think that'd be ok?
<Hobbsee> not sure
* Hobbsee asks
* LaserJock twiddles thumbs
* StevenK appears.
* LaserJock startles
<StevenK> My mirror doesn't have sources, due to hard drive concerns.
<StevenK> However, downloading 100Mb is fine. Uploading on the other hand ...
<LaserJock> I just need to know if it builds
<StevenK> I can do it if Hobbsee doesn't want to.
<LaserJock> dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gcompris/gcompris_8.3.1-3.dsc
<LaserJock> ^^ is what I need
* ajmitch returns from lunch
<StevenK> LaserJock: Builds fine.
<StevenK> LaserJock: On amd64, at least.
<hewhocutsdown> wow, the MOTU/Documentation is kinda daunting
<Hobbsee> hewhocutsdown: it's gotten better, but it's still bad, yes.
<hewhocutsdown> it doesn't look too hard, but it's just a lot all at once *chuckles*
<Hobbsee> heh, true
<hewhocutsdown> i'm fairly failure with Linux/Ubuntu, but I haven't ever delved this deep into package creation; I've built some of my own programs from source on occasion, but the times I've gotten stuck I've eventually given up and waited for a package
<hewhocutsdown> heh heh.. I've been reading the MOTU-Schools/Mentoring pages as well
<hewhocutsdown> what kind of commitment [time wise, after initial learning]  does it usually take for managing a package?
<crimsun> the only documentation you need is /msg Hobbsee help!
<LaserJock> hah
<crimsun> before you try Hobbsee, however, /msg LaserJock help!
<hewhocutsdown> *laughs* I'm sure he loves that
<LaserJock> crimsun: doh
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> hah
<LaserJock> StevenK: thanks
<nixternal> double haha
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<nixternal> you caught that I see
<Hobbsee> hewhocutsdown: just updating the apckage, dealing with the bugs
<hewhocutsdown> hmmm... I've been lurking/submitting bug reports on the Thoggen-devel list, and there's been some updates in upstream versions of gst-plugins-ugly and theora-tools that greatly enhance use on thoggen
<hewhocutsdown> I started with wanting to install them myself, but I figured it may be better for all if I sit down and learn package creation and work it that way
<hewhocutsdown> does that sound like a reasonable idea, or am I coming at things the wrong way around?
<Hobbsee> sounds reasonable to me
<crimsun> oh, how "just updating...dealing with..bugs" is a euphemism
<crimsun> oops, I sound like a bitter old man
<hewhocutsdown> how would I figure out if someone is already working on it?
<Burgundavia> thoggen or gstreamer?
<ajmitch> crimsun: not bitter at all
<ajmitch> crimsun: I didn't realise you were doing a 3 year world tour of fame
<PriceChild> I'm looking for a second advocate of gizmod at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5249 Anyone free to take a look?
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: ajmitch is volunteering
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: you are pure evil
<hewhocutsdown> either, really
<Burgundavia> right
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: i'm the purely evil, sexy psycopathic bitch from au, thankyouverymuch.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: haha 
<Burgundavia> wow
<hewhocutsdown> au? whereabouts?
<joejaxx> Lol
* PriceChild wonders why everyone always repeats that Hobbsee is evil... everyone knows yet everyone is always surprised
<Hobbsee> hewhocutsdown: sydney
<hewhocutsdown> I was in Baulkham Hills for 2003-2004
<persia> Hobbsee: You need to be careful.  Soon your adjective and extra clause list will exceeed the buffer :)
<Hobbsee> ah yes.  near me. 
<Hobbsee> persia: heh
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: for the gstreamer stuff, you need slomo
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: sorry, not volunteering
<hewhocutsdown> the person, or a package I'm unaware of?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: you will address me with my full title.
<joejaxx> hewhocutsdown: person
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: slomo is also the last uploader of thoggen
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you dont need to volunteer.  you were assigned.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is the draft now? :P
* TheMuso chuckles at more of Hobbsee's dominate the world talk.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you wanted to be core-dev, right?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: sorry?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you already are, so you must lead by example.
<hewhocutsdown> ok, I'll track slomo down
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I do - I delegate
<nixternal> Hobbsee: I reject that statement, it was sexist!
* nixternal hides
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: oh maybe they only have that in america :\
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i delegate more.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you know, your "bad girl" image really doesn't work so much on people who know you ;-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, my delegation overrules your delegation
* ajmitch delegates checking the package to LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> haha
<nixternal> haha LaserJock 
* Hobbsee ^5's ajmitch 
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: one thing that would rock is thoggen ported to gstreamer 0.10. In general try and do as much work upstream as possible
<ajmitch> LaserJock: she didn't poke you much, did she?
<hewhocutsdown> ??? it already uses it
<hewhocutsdown> the fix I was trying to add is in 0.10.1
<Burgundavia> ahh
<joejaxx> popey: the cdimage is 188MB
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: have you checked to see if the needed version of the gstreamer plugin is in gutsy yet?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont remember LaserJock complaining of sore ribs, no
<hewhocutsdown> gutsy....that's the devel version of ubuntu, correct?
<Hobbsee> yes
<hewhocutsdown> the perpetually devel
<Burgundavia> no, the current devel
<Burgundavia> there is perpetual devel for Ubunt
* joejaxx has been lucky to have never experienced TLPSOD(TM(TM))
* Hobbsee attacks joejaxx with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  so he doesnt feel left out.
* joejaxx doges
<Burgundavia> wow, I guess that jsut leaves me
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: You thought of trademarking that? :p
<ajmitch> a shame there's no pool handy
<Hobbsee> you didtn throw me in it even when there was one
<ajmitch> I know, it's quite a pit
<ajmitch> s/pit/pity/
<hewhocutsdown> thoggen is at the same version in feisty and gutsy
<Hobbsee> good thing decent people stopped you
<hewhocutsdown> both using gstream 0.10
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: ok
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: they did?
<hewhocutsdown> how did you find slomo? I'm looking through packages.ubuntu.com and can't see any connection to a maintainer
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* joejaxx was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by Hobbsee (YOU FAIL YOUR DODGING ATTEMPT)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by Hobbsee
<ajmitch> I don't recall anyone leaping to your aid
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i seem to remember the glare of doom from tollef made you stop
<joejaxx> ROFL
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: slomo hangs out here often
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/~slomo
<ajmitch> nah
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: *grin*
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :D
<Burgundavia> the ubuntu-desktop list might also be a good place to start
<TheMuso> joejaxx: If you need sdome defence next time, I'll lend you my specially re-enforced cane.
<Hobbsee> bah
<TheMuso> I always manage to fend off Hobbsee with that.
<Hobbsee> your puny cane
<joejaxx> lol
* Hobbsee was thinking of stealing that.
<TheMuso> That never works.
<Hobbsee> sure it does!
<Hobbsee> but it would require coming to slug again
<TheMuso> See!!!!!!!1
<TheMuso> Never works!!!!!
<hewhocutsdown> ok
<TheMuso> oh... And it would require me going to SLUG again
* ajmitch hasn't been to a dunlug meeting for a long long time
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Shame on you!
<Burgundavia> hewhocutsdown: chase me down if you cannot find slomo
<hewhocutsdown> will do
* joejaxx has never been to any lug meetings
<joejaxx> :\
<persia> joejaxx: The first is free :)
<Hobbsee> s/lug/heckler/
<cas3> do the repos have packetfence in it yet?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :P
<Hobbsee> cas3: no
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: That was funny.
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison packetfence
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$
<crimsun> lies, her real name is Bob.
<cas3> Hobbsee: is there any reason why or just no one has gotten around to it?
<Hobbsee> cas3: "because no one has put it in there"
<TheMuso> cas3: Is it in Debian?
<Hobbsee> and probably wont, unless tehy're interested in it
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: no
<joejaxx> crimsun: its Ees Bboh
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
* Hobbsee cheers at madison-lite
<cas3> thanks for the info
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: what about apt-cache policy <package> ? :(
<joejaxx> well actually
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: that works too.  apt-cache madison shows more info.  well, of the kind that you want
<joejaxx> that would mean you have to have all the components enabled
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ah ok
<Hobbsee> true
* Hobbsee uses madison-lite for checking which release, etc
<Hobbsee> although that doesnt output the component, ie main, universe
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yes it does.
<Hobbsee> oh wait, yes it does
<Hobbsee> kdenetwork | 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu9 | feisty/universe | all
<Hobbsee> looks wrong, though
<Hobbsee> uh...
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ madison kdenetwork
<Hobbsee> kdenetwork | 4:3.5.7-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/universe Packages
<Hobbsee> kdenetwork | 4:3.5.6-2ubuntu1 | http://mirror.pacific.net.au gutsy/universe Packages
<Hobbsee> kdenetwork | 4:3.5.7-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
<Hobbsee> i wonder why kdenetwork binary is in universe
<ajmitch> why wouldn't it be?
<ajmitch> it's not like you need it
<Hobbsee> thought it was a dep of k-d
* ajmitch guesses that individual packages were promoted to main, not the metapackages
<Hobbsee> seems so
<hewhocutsdown> thanks for all the input; it water feels a little less murky and threatening. I'll try and get ahold of slomo or I'll talk to you, Burgundavia. All the best
<hewhocutsdown> *the waters
<Burgundavia> no worries
<hendrixski> oh no, I think I made a boo boo with my pgp key
<crimsun> PriceChild: under what license is gizmod-3.1/scripts/* distributed?
<hendrixski> my account on launchpad was for a different address than I had my pgp key for
<hendrixski> what should I do?
<crimsun> PriceChild: excluding the references in gizmod-3.1/debian/copyright for gizmod-3.1/scripts/*
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: use gpg --edit-key, and add the LP address, or change the address on LP
<persia> hendrixski: You can either add you email on your key to launchpad, or add your email in launchpad to your key.
<PriceChild> crimsun, the .py's will be Tim's and apache2'd afaik because they contain nothing else in the file.
<crimsun> PriceChild: it seems a bit odd that the APL v2.0 boilerplate isn't in said .pys
<PriceChild> crimsun, agreed...
<PriceChild> crimsun, but they're all gizmod stuff and tim's work afaict
<hendrixski> persia, oh, so I can just change my address and have launchpad re-send the verification email?
<hendrixski> that won't break anything?
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: yep
<persia> hendrixski: I think you have to not only add the address, but set it as preferred, but yes.
<crimsun> PriceChild: that is my assumption, too, but the archive admins are not as forgiving
* hendrixski wipes brow
<hendrixski> for a second I thought I totally messed everything up
<crimsun> PriceChild: to be safe, please clarify with Tim under what license they're distributed
<PriceChild> crimsun, what do you suggest then... ask Tim to release a source with all of those with the apache2 boilerplates? State that they're all his in /debian/copyright?
<PriceChild> right ok
<PriceChild> He's on holiday atm so will do that when he gets back at the weekend :)
<PriceChild> Thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<hendrixski> persia, Hobbsee also another quick question... I can use that one PGP key on several mail accounts? or do I need a separate key per email account that I want to have encryption on?
<Hobbsee> nope, you can add as many emails to that key as you like
<persia> hendrixski: You can have one key.  Hobbsee gave you the command to add email addresses earlier.
<hendrixski> oh... the edit-key thing right right... misunderstood that one
* hendrixski should change his name to stupidNewbie... 'cause I'm definately feeling dense lately
<Hobbsee> gpg stuff is confusing.
<StevenK> GPG stuff is very confusing at first. When you've dealt with it for a little while, it starts to make a wierd kind of sense.
<crimsun> same can be said for alsa.
<crimsun> so...hobbsee...
<crimsun> :-)
* Hobbsee gives crimsun the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  treatment.
<Hobbsee> yes, crimsun?
<StevenK> crimsun: Don't give ALSA to Hobbsee, she's insane enough.
* Hobbsee will find other sharp implements to use if attempted to be given ALSA too much.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Just grep for my name in the alsa-driver changelog...
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, yeah... very confusing: so I typed in gpg --edit-key it sais I need to specify option, I check the man page and it looks like the option I'm looking for is adduid... but that doesn't seem to do anything when I type it in
<hendrixski> aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggg
* hendrixski throws things at GPG
<Hobbsee> adduid sounds right, last i checked
<hendrixski> that's what I thought... which is why I'm surprised that it just prints out "this is free software" and then closes
<StevenK> hendrixski: gpg --edit-key <keyid>
<ajmitch> sigh, why can't people on forums learn to file bugs?
<StevenK> Because they're forum users.
* StevenK ducks.
<ajmitch> obviously
<hendrixski> StevenK, oh, I must have mis-typed my key the previous time..  it worked :-)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: because teh forums are The World.
<hendrixski> ajmitch, hey I'm still a forum user... and I'm just now learning how to file bugs, and use launchpad, and all that good stuff
<hendrixski> (and package, and digitally sign things, woot)
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: but you've made the most important step
<ajmitch> hendrixski: at least you try & file bugs
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: realising that there's a world of ubuntu outside of the forums, which will often let you contribute to more people's experience than the forums do.
<ajmitch> hendrixski: it's irritating to have to wade through forum threads to find out about a problem that should be in the bug tracker
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, ajmitch I found out about bug filing and stuff on the forums
<ajmitch> yes
<hendrixski> and... practically everything else I learned about ubuntu up to this point.
<Hobbsee> :)
<ajmitch> but some people just don't see the notices there about how to file a bug & just put a forum thread up anyway
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: yes - there's been a push to replicate someof the info over there, to get people off the forums, and put them into more useful endeavours
<Hobbsee> i mean, the forums are useful to a point - and then you're just treading water.
<SlimG> Is the priority in DEBIAN/control of a game "optional" or "extra" ?
<hendrixski> Hobbsee, you're very right!  They're a great starting point.  But as I know more and more, I post there less and less
<Hobbsee> exactly
<PriceChild> hendrixski++
<persia> SlimG: optional unless is breaks something else, then extra.
<hendrixski> ++ ?
<SlimG> thanks persia!
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: i mean, by the time you can search for any answer you'll ever want on the forums, there's no net-benefit in posting there
<Hobbsee> because everything can be found with a search
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: means "i agree with you"
<hendrixski> ah
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: like hendrixski +1
<Hobbsee> (used in c++ and such)
<hendrixski> yeah.  The search feature on the forums is pretty useful.  And has never in history been used by anyone with a bean count of less than 50
<persia> Hobbsee: C++ is "more than C".  +1 is newer.  Unless I'm confused, and you really like C?
* Hobbsee hasnt done C
<Hobbsee> hendrixski: heh.  i probablyhave that.
<Hobbsee> or did have
* TheMuso understands the syntax of C, but just doesn't know all the necessary .h files one has to include for many things.
<TheMuso> I am able to work out what a function does/where other functions are from that it calls, given well written code and comments.
<persia> TheMuso: The easiest way is to grep -r `/usr/include $myfunction`
<TheMuso> persia: Thats what I do, if the function is not within the projet itself.
<persia> with the ` in the right place :)
<TheMuso> project
* persia has the same problem for C++
<TheMuso> Oh, and those **variables confuse me also.
<TheMuso> I understand pointers, but those confuse me.
<ajmitch> hendrixski: hey now, I have a bean count < 50 :)
* TheMuso is sure he also has a bean count of < 50.
* ajmitch isn't a super top active forums contributor like Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee just posts sarcastic and bomb'd replies
<Hobbsee> then they close the threads :)
<ajmitch> a shining example of the developer community
<hendrixski> ajmitch, I meant to say that nobody who'se new to the scene uses that
<Hobbsee> like "i really cant see the point in this thread being open, as still no one has actually volunteered to do the work.  if they do, please write to <insert ML here> with plans, to see if there's anyone willing to help out"
<hendrixski> like... the first couple of times I posted I was like "oh, this is kind of like a replacement for googling, right?"
<Hobbsee> <close thread>
* ajmitch has only been on the forums since 2005
<PriceChild> I like those posts Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :D
<PriceChild> there's nothing "only" about them
<PriceChild> The more they're told the more will listen.
<hendrixski> :-( evolution keeps crashing :-(
<superm1> Is there any way for dpatch to represent a binary file change?
<superm1> say a png?
<persia> superm1: Not really.  The best way is to include foo.png.uu, and uudecode it during the build.
<superm1> yick, but i guess it will have to do :)
<persia> superm1: Also, for many uses of .png, you can get by with .xpm, which isn't binary :)
<superm1> well i'm not sure if this plugin can support xpm (i'm patching mythweather) 
<hendrixski> YAY!!!!!! I got my key on launchpad!!!
* hendrixski does a little dance
<persia> superm1: Hence "many".  you'll probably have to uuencode in that case.
<superm1> yup
<superm1> thanks persia 
<hendrixski> Now... Launchpad can see the other email address that I have on my pgp key, but can anyone else?
<persia> hendrixski: What's your LP ID?
<ajmitch> your key is public, so yes
<persia> sorry - misread.  I thought the other address on LP.
<hendrixski> oh... if that's my business addres... should I assume that nobody would care enough to email me on it once they see my launchpad email, or should I consider getting a separate key for that address?
<leonel> good night everyone !
<inrs> hi
<inrs> i need some help with ndiswrapper
<inrs> i don't have internet connection and i need to install the graphical tool: ndisgtk i think
<Hobbsee> i think you want #ubuntu
<inrs> Hi
<inrs> is there someone here?
<persia> inrs: Your exit missed the response to your question.  For support requests, #ubuntu is the appropriate channel.
<inrs> :)
<inrs> sorry
<hendrixski> inrs, or #ubuntu-offtopic in case #ubuntu is too active
<inrs> ah ok
<inrs> but ndiswrapper is a universe package, no?
<inrs> this is not the place for universe support?
<inrs> Thanks
<persia> Hobbsee: Did you ever get started with your U-U-S process documentation?  I'm planning to put up a wiki page for review prior to the meeting, and would like to capture anything you've done so far.
<Hobbsee> persia: i didnt.
<Hobbsee> i'm slack
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.  Thanks.  I won't be duplicating your work then :)
<Hobbsee> :)
* TheMuso strongly advises anybody looking to buy optical drives to avoid LG at all costs!!!
<Hobbsee> hwy so?
<TheMuso> They die at the most spectacular and bad times.
<TheMuso> sorry, they die in a spectacular fashion, at bad times.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<TheMuso> I've just had a DVD-ROM drive die on me while being used, and it won't read CD or DVD media of any kind.
<StevenK> [   50.111826]  scsi 0:0:0:0: CD-ROM            PIONEER  DVD-RW  DVR-109  1.01 PQ
<StevenK> : 0 ANSI: 5
<StevenK> Hrm. I thought it was an LG. Okay, then.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thats what I have now, but still had LG devices.
<TheMuso> s/had/have/
<TheMuso> The only LG optical drive that hasn't died, is a burner from a family member's old machine.
<TheMuso> And that is a CD burner.
<Burgundavia> I keep my hardware alive by never using it
<jmg> heh
<slomo> Burgundavia: what exactly did this hewhocutsdown guy want from me? :)
<jmg> is that how you keep your penis alive?
<jmg> *duck*
<Burgundavia> he wanted to work on thoggen and thus gstreamer
<slomo> Burgundavia: sounds good... what exactly did he think of?
<Burgundavia> he was just a little bit lost as to who to contact and how to begin
<Burgundavia> so we spent some time figuring out exactly what he wanted to do and thus who to contact
<StevenK> Burgundavia: So when are you going to get your brother onto IRC? :-P
<Hobbsee> madpilot?
<Burgundavia> next time you get kicked by Madpilot, I will answer that question :)
<StevenK> Oh.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Burgundavia> and then you protest to the CC
<Burgundavia> where I rule against you in a giant cabal of relatives
<Burgundavia> :)
<StevenK> He doesn't frequent here or -devel, which are the two I do.
<Burgundavia> anyway, enough evil planning for tonight
<ajmitch> there can never be enough
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: fix some bugs, now.
<Burgundavia> need to wash the dishes
<Burgundavia> gf said I needed to
<Burgundavia> but first I want to play with this powertop stuff
* Hobbsee bites tongue
<Burgundavia> nah, spit it out
<Burgundavia> back in a flash
<Hobbsee> no, no, i'm sure i shouldnt
<Seveas> Hobbsee, now you can :)
<StevenK> Seveas: Are you still elmo-coloured?
<jussi01> good morning motu's
<jussi01> hello Hobbsee!!
<Hobbsee> hi jussi01!
<jussi01> I have a question, Im using cdbs, but it doesnt seem to pick up my man pages, anyone have anyideas why?/how to fix?
* Fujitsu yawns.
<jussi01> Fujitsu: am i really that boring...
<jussi01> ??
<Hobbsee> we're keeping you up, are we Fujitsu?
<jussi01> :P
<Fujitsu> No, just returned from talking to an architect at school. Booooooooooring.
<jussi01> lol
<Fujitsu> But at least it means we'll likely get sane network cabling when the school is refurbished.
<Hobbsee> heh
<jussi01> :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: is this for careers day, or?
<Fujitsu> No, it's for the plans for the school refurbishment. It seems I was deemed most qualified to talk to the architect about network cabling throughout the campus.
<jussi01> heh...
<Hobbsee> ahhh....right...
<Hobbsee> then you say "give us free wifi, and ignore the cabling"
<Fujitsu> Sure, wifi for 200 PCs.
<Fujitsu> We do have wifi, but mostly for staff.
<Hobbsee> awww
<Hobbsee> ours didnt at all
<dholbach> good morning
<Fujitsu> The Department of Education rolled it out to all Victorian schools a couple of years back.
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<jussi01> good morning dholbach
<Hobbsee> neat...
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu, hey jussi01
<jussi01> Fujitsu: you in Oz??
<Fujitsu> jussi01: Right.
<jussi01> where in vic?
<Fujitsu> Eastern suburbs of Melbourne.
* jussi01 was raised in geelong
<minghua> jussi01: do you have a debian/<package>.manpages file?
<jussi01> minghua: yes
<minghua> jussi01: no idea then, CDBS is black magic to me
<jussi01> minghua: yeah
* minghua recommends "use debhelper" :-P
<jussi01> minghua: its python....
<jussi01> :D
* Hobbsee recommends "check a cdbs package for how they do it"
<Hobbsee> and cdbs documentation, if it still exists
<jussi01> Hobbsee: looked at the doc... no help...
<jussi01> do you have a reccomendation for a cdbs package to look at?
<StevenK> I note that wireless didn't exist when I was in high school...
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes, but you're old and decrepit.
<jussi01> lol
<minghua> poor StevenK
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hah
* Hobbsee runs
<minghua> we didn't even have internet when I was in high school
<jussi01> [09:09]  * Hobbsee runs ???? where is your pointy stick?
<persia> StevenK: Are you sure?  Data transfer via radio is fairly old (albeit at rates starting as low as 10 baud).
<StevenK> persia: Okay, I mean 802.11{a,b}
<highvolt1ge> packet radio!
* persia used to have an old US Robotics pocket computer with 300 baud packet radio
<jussi01> hehehe
<dholbach> heya highvolt1ge
<jussi01> you guys are old... :P
<highvolt1ge> hey dholbach 
<highvolt1ge> and viviersf 
<Hobbsee> "messages via dinasour"
<viviersf> lo highvolt1ge 
* jussi01 cries
<StevenK> Nah, it would have been "OSI over dinosaur transport"
* jussi01 stops crying and starts slapping cdbs, his package and anything else in the way....
<persia> I've put an intiial draft for U-U-S Processing up at w.u.c/MOTU/SandBox/UniverseSponsorsQueue.  Could anyone suggest where the page really belongs?  I'd like to link to it in the agenda (but Sandbox rules prohibit this).  Also, let me know if there are any issues: I'd like to get it approved tomorrow.  Thank you.
<StevenK> persia: I'd argue that untargeted bug should be for the latest development.
<StevenK> Mainly because it requires a -core-dev to approve targeted bugs.
* Hobbsee has some stuff she doesnt agree with there
<persia> StevenK: I agree with that.  What wording do you suggest for contributor note #2
<persia> Hobbsee: Great!  What?
<StevenK> persia: Not sure.
<StevenK> persia: patch -p0 or -p1, I'd suggest
<persia> StevenK: OK.  If I can make it clearer, I'll clean it up.  Otherwise, we can collect consensus at the meeting.
<StevenK> persia: In-process -> In Progress
<Hobbsee> the most recent revision should probalby add that it's of the development release
<persia> StevenK: Ah, right, -p1 for native packages.
<Hobbsee> patch is uaully used with -p1
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.
* persia always uses -p0
<StevenK> I agree with Hobbsee -p1 is more "normal"
<persia> That needs to run inside the package directory, right?
<StevenK> Does sync have to be in capitials?
<Hobbsee> yes
<StevenK> persia: I will usually do patch -p1 ../debdiff
<persia> SYNC -> sync
<Hobbsee> it seems like a lot of red tape, tbh.  will have to look more later
<StevenK> persia: That way if I screw up, the debdiff doesn't turn up in the .diff.gz
<StevenK> Hobbsee: It doesn't to me. It looks like documenting what we already do.
<Hobbsee> true
<persia> StevenK: OK.  `I'll suggest patch -p1 < ../debdiff` rather than `patch -p0 < debdiff`
<StevenK> Great.
<persia> Hobbsee: There is some red tape, but we've had a couple collisions recently, and I'd like to avoid those.
<StevenK> persia: Good work, it looks good for a first stab.
* persia also wishes for an empty queue
<Hobbsee> t does!
<Hobbsee> persia: i've filed a bug about that, yes
<persia> OK.  Back to my primary question: Where does this page belong.
<persia> Hobbsee: :)
<StevenK> persia: MOTU/Sponsoring/SponsorsQueue ?
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'll put it there.
<StevenK> Maybe it's MOTU/Sponsorship, I'm not sure.
<Hobbsee> i'd think the latter
<persia> OK.  It will become MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue once I clean up the spelling, capitalisation,  and patch testing recommendation.
<StevenK> Sounds good to me.
<LaserJock> man I hate LPs changelog handling
<Hobbsee> it shows the full changelog now, doesnt ti?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: I don't see it
<LaserJock> but it's supposed
<Hobbsee> ahh
<Hobbsee> it's in a fiddly location
<Hobbsee> go into the release, and find it that awy, iirc
<mumbly> hello !
<jussi01> hi mumbly
<jussi01> if the rules file is missing a separator, what am i actually missing?
<jussi01> nm, i figured it...
<jussi01> ok, am i missing a build dep or something?
<jussi01> dh_installman -pmnemosyne
<jussi01> .": No such file or directory at /usr/bin/dh_installman line 120.
<crimsun> please post your source package somewhere.
<persia> jussi01: That usually means that dh_installman cannot find the files you specified.  You might want `dh_installmanpages -ppackagename` instead.
<StevenK> persia: dh_installmanpages is deprecated in favour of dh_installman
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  My understanding was the opposite.  Thanks
<persia> jussi01: Ignore what I previously said.
<jussi01> persia: StevenK, its cdbs black magic, i have debian/mnemosyne.manpages. Im a little unsure of how to proceed
<StevenK> What's in debian/mnemosyne.manpages?
<jussi01> StevenK: the manpages file i created
<crimsun> can you pastebin it?  (That's why I was asking you to post the source package earlier.)
<StevenK> jussi01: What's *in*, not what *is*. :-P
<jussi01> sure: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22265/
<jussi01> StevenK: :P
<StevenK> jussi01: .manpages shouldn't be a manual page itself.
<StevenK> jussi01: .manpages should be a list of files to install as manual pages.
<jussi01> StevenK: ahhh.... I just remembered..
<jussi01> gotcha
* jussi01 feels really stupid
<jussi01> Ive been struggling wit this for several days, and it turns out something stupidly basic. Thanks a million StevenK persia crimsun
<crimsun> np.
<StevenK> jussi01: You'll never ever forget, now. :-)
<jussi01> hehe, StevenK your right...
<jussi01> ok, i uploded a copy to revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5257 its still giving me that error. maybe someone could have a look?
<persia> jussi01: Try using the syntax debian/mnemosyne.1 in debian/mnemosyne.manpages
<jussi01> persia: trying that now
<jussi01> persia: works perfectly now! thank you very much
<persia> jussi01: The debhelper helper files (used for CDBS "magic") assume all pathnames to be relative to the project directory, rather than the debian directory.  It's the same for package.install, etc.
<jussi01> persia: thanks, ill remember that. 
<knix> Who do I talk to about getting openbox linked with Xrandr?
<persia> knix: If you don't get another answer here, your best option is to file a bug.  If you include a patch, it is more likely to be applied.
<knix> will do, thanks
<knix> Do I just submit the patch to motu@?
<persia> knix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openbox is the best place.
<superm1> knix, out of curiosity what do you mean by getting linked with xrandr?  Does it have support for xrandr that isn't currently activated?
<knix> yes
<superm1> have you done a test build with it on and not seen any breakage?
<knix> I've run openbox svn and it's very stable
<knix> And no one has reported bugs on it to openbox
<knix> I haven't actually tried rebuilding the package from apt though
<superm1> so the support is only in svn?
<knix> I don't believe so
<knix> I haven't done a lot of homework :)
<knix> No, it's had xrandr support for a very long time
<superm1> You sure its not built with it?
<superm1> looking at http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/o/openbox/openbox_3.3-2.1ubuntu1/changelog
<superm1> xrandr support was enabled back in feb 2004
<knix> jimmym@lappy:~ > ldd `which openbox` |grep Xrand
<knix> jimmym@lappy:~ > 
<knix> that's the ubuntu package in feisty
<persia> It might have been that the change in 3.2-8 accidentally dropped it.
<knix> Yea, libxrandr2 isnt' listed as a dep or anything
<superm1> well your right, http://librarian.launchpad.net/5912256/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.openbox_3.3-2.1ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<superm1> no XRandR support during the configure step
<knix> heh
<superm1> knix, go ahead and file a bug for this
<knix> k
<knix> I sent a mail to the list a couple days ago, but I wasn't a member so I don't know if it got posted, I just subscribed :F
<superm1> knix, i'll make a quick build with that extra build dep on it
<superm1> assign the bug to me and i'll put the debdiff with it
<knix> hehe k
<persia> knix: Thanks a lot for pointing out the issue.
<jussi01> ok, Im having trouble with my menu file. Ive been reading the debian menu manual, and it seems i have it correct. however, lintian is still giving me warnings. here is a pastebin of my menu file, with the warnings lintian is giving me pasted on the end http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22271/
<knix> superm1: who are you?
<superm1> superm1 (Mario Limonciello)
<superm1> on lp
<pochu> superm1: section="Apps/Education"
<knix> alright, submitted and assigned
<pochu> you're missing a \ at the end
<superm1> thx knix 
<pochu> superm1: and command="/usr/bin/mnemosyne"\ (you don't need a final slash :))
<pochu> err jussi01 ^ :)
<superm1> huh pochu ?
<jussi01> :D
<superm1> oh
<superm1> lol
<pochu> superm1: hehe, sorry :)
<superm1> i was particularly confused, i thought you were telling me to recategorize openbox as Apps/Education at first :)
<pochu> lol :)
<jussi01> alright, thanks, ill let you know when it works :D
<pochu> !openbox
<ubotu> openbox is a lightweight window manager. For instructions and more information see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Openbox. To replace metacity with Openbox please see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Replace_Metacity_with_Openbox_in_gnome
<knix> There's a bug with some gnome package and xrandr as well, at least I"m inclined to believe it's xrandr
<knix> THe background utility maintains the old screen size
<knix> So if I move to a larger res my background is tiled
<knix> And if I choose a small bg and center it I have multiple centered BGs in their tiles
<knix> And I"m not using nautilus, so it's just whayever handles the backgrounds
<superm1> I thought nautilus was what handled the backgrounds
<jussi01> hmmm, pochu its still giving me the line 5 error. 
<knix> Well, it does on other platforms, so I have no idea
<knix> But I don't have nautilus in my session and I have a background :P
<knix> gnome-background-properties is linked against xrandr, so I dunno
<pochu> jussi01: do you have a final empty file?
<jussi01> pochu: a what?
<jussi01> I dont think so
<superm1> knix, there is a setting in the gnome background manager to tile or center or stretch
<pochu> jussi01: after "/usr/bin/command" add a new line (empty).
<jussi01> pochu: yeah, ive got that
<pochu> can you pastebin the file again? :)
<jussi01> sure
<jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22275/ it does have the extra line, pastebin just doesnt put it there
<superm1> persia, could I bug you to sponsor uploading this debdiff for openbox?  Just finished building and testing it.  bug 116578
<jussi01> pochu: ^^
<persia> superm1: I was just waiting for the bugmail.  I'll take a look at it now.
<superm1> man ubotu really is going slow today.
<knix> superm1: no, that's not it
<pochu> jussi01: does it display the same error?
<knix> It doesn't recognize the screen as larger
<knix> eg. if I pick center, it's not actually centered
<knix> here, let me take a screenshot
<jussi01> pochu: it gives E: mnemosyne: bad-test-in-menu-item /usr/share/menu/mnemosyne:5
<superm1> knix, I think I get what your saying.  You'll have to identify what app is not doing it right though to file a bug on it
<jussi01> lintian that is
<persia> superm1: Why are you updating debian/compat?  Does it not work with 4?
<pochu> jussi01: use lintian -i, it'll give you a more descriptive report.
<superm1> persia, that's what i've been generally doing with older packages as they are brought up to newer versions
<pochu> jussi01: I know now :)
<pochu> the :5 was confusing me ;)
<superm1> I dont remember who had recommended I do it, it was almost a year ago
<persia> superm1: I tend to believe in smallest difference to Debian, personally, but OK.  Could you also open a Debian bug for this?
<jussi01> pochu: ?
<knix> superm1: http://knix.mine.nu/gnome_bg_1.png
<superm1> persia, sure
<pochu> jussi01: you have to remove the first tab, so the first character is the "?package..."
<jussi01> ahhh
<knix> superm1: http://knix.mine.nu/gnome_bg_2.png
<pochu> jussi01: you can also remove the space after the tabs in the other lines. You don't need them :)
<jussi01> ok thanks
<superm1> knix, that might be directly related to openbox not having randr support ( as it appears you have a *box variant running there)
<superm1> the background drawing is likely asking the window manager for the resolution
<knix> Yea, that's openbox, but openbox doesn't do anytyhing with xroot
<knix> nah, it's not
<knix> openbox is using 1680x1050, I just restarted it
<jussi01> pochu: bingo!! that fixe it. thanks a lot!!
<knix> yay another bug
<knix> gnome-screenshot -w segfaults :D
<pochu> jussi01: you're welcome :)
<knix> someone confirm, heh
<pochu> jussi01: oh, and remember to use lintian -i, instead of just lintian, when you don't know how to fix an error :)
<jussi01> pochu: yeah, i just noticed how nice that can be
<jussi01> :D
<pochu> :)
<knix> looks like it's screenshot_get_pixbuf()
<knix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/22321
<knix> filed in '05 ...
<persia> knix: Not every bug is as easy to fix as 116578 :)
<knix> heh
<knix> I should look at it, but the gnome code is so massive it scares me
<knix> I was looking to fix some of the system monitoring applets and things for the obsd 2.18 port, but it's like 50mb of code
<superm1> persia, debian bug 425816
<persia> superm1: Thanks.  Could you link it to bug 116578?
<superm1> sure
<superm1> will do
<persia> superm1: Thank you.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116578 in openbox "Missing Xrandr support" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116578
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 22321 in gnome-utils "segmentation fault in gnome-screenshot" [Low,Confirmed]  
<ubotu> Debian bug 425816 in openbox "Openbox is missing randr support" [Unknown,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/425816
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116578 in openbox "Missing Xrandr support" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116578
<knix> =)
<jussi01> Hei Motu's. if someones got time to review my package, that would be great! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5257 (mnemosyne)
<jussi01> sorry, should be http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5259
<VoX> ok, im a little confused about something :(
<VoX> im building a package to be reviewe
<VoX> d
<VoX> it's for the logitech G15 keyboard, and incorporates several different sources(g15daemon, libg15, lcdproc, etc)
<VoX> when debuild is looking for the changelog, is it looking for my changelog, or the changelog of the sources i've used to build the package?
<persia> VoX: You'll find life easiest if you have different packages for each upstream source.  Also, lcdproc is already in the archives, so you probably want to patch rather than make a new package.
<persia> VoX: debuild is looking for debian/changelog
<VoX> gah it is too
<VoX> hmm im still a little confused about the whole process
* VoX wiki
<persia> VoX: I recommend starting with packages that aren't libraries and don't have lots of interaction with other parts of the system.  Most of the documentation is geared at this type of package, and it provides a good opportunity to become familiar with things prior to trying larger projects.
<VoX> persia: the actual compiling etc wasnt that hard, i've just not really looked at the process involved in contributing to revu before
<persia> Could anyone point me to the backports request process?
<ScottK> persia: File a bug in LP against the appropriate project (e.g. feisty-backports).  It's in the wiki somewhere IIRC
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I didn't see it, but I'll search a little harder.
<ScottK> persia: Title search on backport: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess
<persia> ScottK: Thanks - I found that after your previous encouragement.  Now I just have to decide if I really want to backport, or to tell the poor user that they should wait 5 months, and all the problems will go away :)
<ScottK> persia: What package?
<ScottK> jussi01: You forgot to remove the build-dep on pycentral.
<ScottK> persia: If it's gaphor, I'd say go for it.
<persia> ScottK: Audacity (and XMMS).  GTK 1.2+ doesn't seem to be working well for a few people, and while there are alternatives to XMMS, Audacity is sufficiently different that it might be interesting.  I'm leaning towards not backporting, but there are a couple private backports out there...
<persia> ScottK: For gaphor, it's been broken since dapper, which might qualify for more, but I still don't like my gaphor packages :)  I need to remember to stay away from python.
<ScottK> No, you remember to learn the Python better.
<ScottK> OK
<persia> ScottK: Perhaps :)
<ScottK> If there are private backports, that's an arguement for doing an official one I'd say.
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I have to make sure that ours works properly in feisty - if not, I'd rather not offer it as an official backport.
<ScottK> Sure.  Won't break stuff is more important than providing official crack in place of unofficial crack.
<persia> ScottK: depending on the definition of break, I agree.  I wish I understood why there are GTK+ 1.2 issues: it's probably a configuration thing, or a package selection thing, and a backport seems a drastic way to solve it.
<StevenK> You mean we haven't booted GTK+ 1.2 out of the archive?
<persia> StevenK: As far as I know the current blockers are wx2.4 and XMMS, for which an impassioned argument was recently made.  Unfortunately, XMMS is the most popular manually installed music player (by a factor of xis or more - I forget exactly).
<persia> s/xis/six/
<StevenK> Oh geez.
<StevenK> xmms is even in main.
<persia> Yep, and lots & lots of things build xmms plugins.  The community that uses XMMS really has to choose one of the GTK+ 2 replacements - as far as I can tell, it's still a free-for-all.
<persia> bmpx, beep-meida-player (dead but in the archive), audacious, xmms2, etc.
<ScottK> jussi01: Just posted another comment set on your package.  You are getting close.  It's in pretty good shape.
<jussi01> ScottK: thanks! I just cam back in and saw that. :D
<Q-FUNK> could someone look at bug 116528 and tell me what i'm missing?  what would be the fix to make to the script?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116528 in numlockx "Deinstalling numlockx breaks X startup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116528
* StevenK idly wonders why libapache2-mod-fastcgi is in multiverse.
<Q-FUNK> to make it "exit 0" regardless?
<persia> Q-FUNK: add `... || /bin/true` in the right place?
<Q-FUNK> true already is there
<Q-FUNK> persia: can you look at the actual script?
<persia> Q-FUNK: That's later in the script.  As I understand it, under set -e you need to make each command succeed.
<persia> Q-FUNK: I'd specifically put an ||  between the subshell and the call to true, just to force it.
<Q-FUNK> test -x /usr/bin/numlockx && /usr/bin/numlockx on || /bin/true
<Q-FUNK> this?
<persia> Q-FUNK: I think so.
<Q-FUNK> or leave the true where it is and add || in fornt of it?
<persia> Q-FUNK: Sorry, no.  ( test -x /usr/bin/numlockx && /usr/bin/numlockx on ) || /bin/true
<Q-FUNK> ah, right, testing for the whole operation
<Kaloz> yo Q
<Kaloz> :)
<Q-FUNK> Kaloz: :)
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Isn't FastCGI non-free?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I have no idea.
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure it is.
<StevenK> It looks GPL incompatible, anyway
<Fujitsu> Pretty much.
<Fujitsu> DFSG non-free in some respect, I guess.
<StevenK> Exactly. It's free, just not DFSG-free
<Fujitsu> But the DFSG seems to be the reference implementation of freedom these days.
<StevenK> Well, point.
<jussi01> alright then; if a motu could take another look at my package, that would be wonderful! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5261
<jussi01> (mnemosyne)
* StevenK kills mod_fastcgi
* jussi01 goes to play tremulous while he waits... see you all in a bit
<ScottK> jussi01: +1 from me.  My first package to advocate as a MOTU...
<ScottK> See you all later, off to be stuck in meetings all day...
<StevenK> Sounds fun...
<ScottK> StevenK: You got the first two letters of the phrase I was thinking of correct.
<StevenK> ScottK: :-P
<StevenK> ScottK: The phrase being 'Sounds fire truck'ed' ?
<ScottK> StevenK: Yeah.  That's the one.
<StevenK> Oh fire truck. Now I get why Rails doesn't work on this machine.
<persia> StevenK: It doesn't like you?
<ScottK> Demonic possession.
* ScottK is really leaving now...
<StevenK> persia: No, the rails fcgi module isn't installed.
<StevenK> Then again, this is my Rails deployment, so I'm having to learn as I go.
<StevenK> Er, first deployment
<persia> StevenK: I used http://www.urbanpuddle.com/articles/2006/12/07/install-ruby-rails-on-ubuntu-edgy-eft, and everything went pretty smoothly, until I realised I didn't actually want to write code for database driven web pages.
<StevenK> Hah
<persia> At least I was able to do the tutorials, etc.
<StevenK> Oh, I've written all of the code and everything, this is throwing it out there and trying to get it running under Apache.
<persia> StevenK: Apache?  That's the issue.  Have fun :)
<StevenK> persia: Hey! I *like* Apache.
<persia> StevenK: But does Apache like you?  I like Apache too, but I've become convinced it really doesn't like me, and have been settling for other web servers.
<jussi01> ScottK: brilliant!! thanks a lot
<StevenK> persia: Such as?
<persia> For Rails, I'm using lighthttpd.
<StevenK> persia: I think Apache respects me. I've managed to bend it to my will an awful lot.
<persia> Rather, lighttpd
<jussi01> Ok, motu's, just one more. :D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5261
<persia> StevenK: If you can get along, by all means.  Apache is more flexible and more capable.
<jussi01> hmmm, now thats weird, ScottKhas avocated my package, but it shows up as 0(0), so no advocates. weird?
<persia> jussi01: You uploaded a new version, and so you need an ACK from ScottK for the advocation.  There's no way the system can tell you didn't put a tricky trojan in the new version.
<jussi01> ahhh, heh, i think maybe ScottK put it there accidentally
<jussi01> because it was after i uploaded that that he advocated it. the version before there was still stuff to be done
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<persia> jussi01: Maybe.  ScottK should be back in 6 or 7 hours, and would probably be willing to advocate the current version then.  I'm not able to properly review python packages, but I like watch files (man uscan for format, etc.) in packages.
<jussi01> persia: ok, Ill have a read up of watch files (since i have no idea what they are)
<StevenK> persia: For Apache, you just need to remember that the log files don't tell the complete story. strace -s 1500 apache2 -X will have it spilling its guts out and telling you what is really happening.
<persia> jussi01: They're just extra files in debian/ that keep track of upstream, and can be used to automatically check if a new upstream version is available.  Debian uses this as art of their QA infrastructure, but it's just extra candy for Ubuntu.
<persia> StevenK: I'm not quite that much of a sadist :)
<jussi01> persia: ok, so its not _necessary_ but nice to have ?
<persia> jussi01: Exactly.
<jussi01> ok then
* StevenK finally gets to the strace stage to debug Apache.
<StevenK> Oh, twitch.
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M May 24 22:25 dbg
* StevenK gets the shovel so he sift through the mess.
<persia> StevenK: That's only 10 times the length of a good novel.  Shouldn't take more than a week :)
<StevenK> You can't grep a novel. :-P
<persia> StevenK: http://www.baen.com/library/, http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page
<StevenK> Shush.
<Q-FUNK> would anyone care to comment on Bug #116528 WRT the two alternate solutions?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116528 in numlockx "Deinstalling numlockx breaks X startup" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116528
<persia> Grrr..  Offering to mentor a bug should automatically subscribe one to that bug.
<persia> Q-FUNK: I think the second method is easier to read, although I'm more likely to generate the first method when writing scripts.
<Hobbsee> hi all
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<persia> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya dholbach, persia!
<zul> HEY Hobbsee 
<zul> doh..
<zul> stupid cap locks
<Hobbsee> :)
<bmm> Hi everybody. I've got a package in REVU and have had a few reviews already. It now seems that it's completly bug free ;-)
<persia> bmm: That's great.  Congratulations.
<bmm> Should I keep asking people to take a look at it until it gets advocated?
<bmm> (Or just wait for it to be advocated)
<bmm> persia: thanks!
<Hobbsee> bmm: ask
<bmm> It's ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5125
<persia> bmm: The general practice is that after each upload (if you think it's fixed), make an annoucement here requesting review.  Try not to request review more than once a day.  After you get your first advocation, announce you are looking for a second advocate here (with the same timing rules).
<bmm> Ah, ok. Didn't want to push you people ;-)
<persia> REVU is also checked regularly by our dedicated REVU team, so if you miss a day or two, it may receive treatment anyway.
<StevenK> Oh, fracking suexec.
<StevenK> Hrm. Changing the suexec docroot, and recompiling apache, or moving the install. I wonder what I'll pick.
<jussi01> recompile... its lots of fun...:P
<StevenK> Not for apache it isn't.
* StevenK has played that game.
<jussi01> hehe
<persia> I think it was compiling Apache for Alpha that made me install Potato in the first place...
<StevenK> Heh
<bmm> Just for those who havn't noticed yet: dell is now really going to push Ubuntu computers http://www.dell.com/open :-D
<viviersf> oi i wanna strangle my pc
<jekil> hello
<alfredoj69> hello everybody
<Hobbsee> hiya
<Baby> what is the alias for the latest ubuntu repository? (i mean like debian's sid)
<persia> Baby: There's no alias.  It changes with each new expected release.
<Baby> hmm so i'll have to change it each time?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Baby> thanks
<pochu> Hobbsee: good luck with your core application!
<Hobbsee> pochu: thankyou :)
<mruiz> hey dholbach, How're you? I read about motu-mentoring-reception team -> "If you want to become a MOTU and would like somebody to mentor you, just mail one member of the team and get started today." Are you available as mentor?
<persia> mruiz: He appears to be away from the channel right now.  If you are interested in seeking a mentor, I would recommend sending email to any of the members of motu-mentoring-reception, and they will put you in touch with someone who is available as a mentor, as soon as a slot is available.
<mruiz> thanks persia, I will do it
<jekil> current release for upload in revu is gutsy, right?
<Hobbsee> yes
<jekil> so, why this: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/tablelist-0705231750/lintian
<Hobbsee> persia: where was the documentation on debdiffs and such?
<Hobbsee> jekil: because lintian is out of date on that machine
<Hobbsee> it's only running dapper, iirc
<jekil> Hobbsee: thanks, i am supposing this :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Which documentation?
<Hobbsee> persia: i thought you had some documentation on writing debdiffs, as part of u-u-s
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you mean the UUS queue contributor guidelines?
<persia> Right.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<leonel> hello  Good Ubuntureros !
<jekil> someone can review, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5255
<Hobbsee> persia: kidna
<persia> Hobbsee: What are you looking for.  I might be able to find it.
<persia> jekil: That looks lovely.  I've left a couple notes, which require a new upload.
<Hobbsee> persia: what a patch is, what a debdiff is, i think.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm not finding that.  MOTU/HowToPatch only covers patch systems, Bugs/HowToFix assumes the reader knows nothing about packaging, and MOTU/Bugs assumes you already know how to make a debdiff.  I'll draft one, but it'll likely be a few days (I want to flesh out MOTU/Contributing anyway).
<Hobbsee> cool..  sounds good to me
<Hobbsee> it's long overdue, so a few more days wont hurt
<jekil> persia: good :) thank you :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah.  We have all that "Hopeful" stuff, but most of it was cleaned up to point to the new process, and we don't seem to have anything that helps those interested in helping (other than #ubuntu-motu, but that's horribly redundant :) )
<Hobbsee> yep
<persia> jekil: I finally figured out the formatting.  The comment is more correct now (although the content is the same).
<pochu> Amaranth: rock on :)
<jekil> persia: thanks a lot, but i have already uploaded the new package.. but revu dont show it.. is a my error? or depends to version change?
<persia> jekil: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5262
<jekil> persia: ops, sorry :) i was refreshing the old page, i am a revu newbie
<vijay2000> can anybody tel me how to read a encrypted mail
<persia> jekil: On the old page, look at the bottom, and the new link is shown.
<vijay2000> i am using galeon
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: sounds like a #ubuntu type question
<vijay2000> i am trying to complete the launchpad registration
<jekil> persia: thanks, now you think that the package and my style of packaging can be right for ubuntu? (i learn in debian)
<persia> vijay2000: Still, this channel will provide you with help in working with the packages, but for using your software you'll probably get a better answer in #ubuntu (or the documentation, or the wiki, or the forums, etc.)
<persia> jekil: I listed the only important differences in packaging between Ubuntu and Debian.  The big reasons are 1)  If your package gets into Debian (as -1), it's better to use the Debian package also in Ubuntu, and 2) If Ubuntu users have trouble, they should not contact the Debian Maintainer (especially if the package is different in Ubuntu than in Debian).
<vijay2000> oh thanks persia..
<vijay2000> i still get this error when i try to debuild clamtk
<vijay2000> dpkg-source: building clamtk in clamtk_2.32-0Ubuntu1.tar.gz
<vijay2000> dpkg-source: building clamtk in clamtk_2.32-0Ubuntu1.dsc
<vijay2000>  dpkg-genchanges -S -sa
<vijay2000> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
<vijay2000> dpkg-buildpackage: source only upload: Debian-native package
<vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.32-0Ubuntu1.dsc Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>
<vijay2000> gpg: skipped "Vijay <vijay2000@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<jekil> persia: thanks a lot
<vijay2000> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<vijay2000> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<vijay2000> debuild: fatal error at line 791:
<vijay2000> running debsign failed
<persia> vijay2000: Don't do that.  Use a pastebing.
<vijay2000> what is pastebin
<persia> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<Hobbsee> grah...use a damned pastebin
<Hobbsee> means that debsign failed, but the build didnt.
<vijay2000> now i am yet to build it
<Hobbsee> however, you are building it natively
<Hobbsee> whcih you dont want to
<persia> vijay2000: If you put the output in a pastebin, Hobbsee won't be confused, and will be able to help you better :)
<vijay2000> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22311/
<vijay2000> hope i am making some sense now
<persia> vijay2000: Your source package appears to have build correctly, but your description and changes files could not be signed, because debsign could not find a secret key that matched the address in the changelog.
<vijay2000> what will be the solution for this ? :(
<persia> vijay2000: The name and address in your changelog must match the name and one of the addresses in your key.
<vijay2000> let me try it out
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: specify it with -k<yourkeyid> in the build
<Hobbsee> it seems a bit tempramental, at times?
<vijay2000> u mean like debuild -S -sa -k <keyid>
<Hobbsee> yep
<vijay2000> when i try to change the log i get it as parsechangelog/debian: error: badly formatted trailer line, at changelog line 5
<vijay2000> dch: fatal error at line 387:
<vijay2000> Problem executing dpkg-parsechangelog:
<persia> vijay2000: That's probably what caused the first error.  Did you create your changelog entry with `dch -i`?
<vijay2000> yes
<vijay2000> i am getting this error only now
<persia> jekil: That looks much better.   Thanks.  A few non-blocking notes are available from http://www.pastebin.ca/507439
<vijay2000> persia : now i get this error
<vijay2000> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<vijay2000>  signfile clamtk_2.32-0ubuntu0.dsc D77BB7A8
<vijay2000> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
<vijay2000> user: "Vijay (Vijay) <vijay2000@gmail.com>"
<vijay2000> 1024-bit DSA key, ID D77BB7A8, created 2007-05-22
<persia> vijay2000: Use a pastebin, or expect less help.
<vijay2000> sorry
<Hobbsee> vijay2000: then you put in the passphrase.  see [01:40]  <vijay2000> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
<jekil> persia: thank you a lot
<vijay2000> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22312
<vijay2000> how to find my passphrase . what is a passphrase
<persia> vijay2000: When you created your GPG key, you were asked for a passphrase.  You need to enter than to sign your .dsc and .changes files.
<pochu> vijay2000: it's a password
<vijay2000> after entering the password i get this
<vijay2000> signfile clamtk_2.32-0ubuntu0_source.changes D77BB7A8
<vijay2000> can i reset my passphrase 
<vijay2000> i think i forgot the passphrase
<persia> vijay2000: That's good.  That's what you want.
<vijay2000> how to reset my passphrase
<Q-FUNK> vijay2000: signing worked.  why do you need to change the password?
<persia> vijay2000: `gpg --edit-key passwd -kD77BB7A8` let's you change the passphrase.
<vijay2000> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22313/
<Hobbsee> but of course, you need to actually know the original passphrase to do it...
<vijay2000> now i get this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22314/
<persia> vijay2000: For 22313, it looks like you typed the password correctly the first time, but not the second time (it asks twice).  For 22314, I probably made a mistake.  `man gpg` might tell you how to do it correctly.
<Hobbsee> the second is a syntax error.  man gpg will help.
<vijay2000> got signed succssfully :)
<nixternal> GOOOOOOOD MORNING VIET MOTUUUUUUUUUUUUU
<pochu> nixternal: lol :)
<persia> nixternal: good morning.  Please do something about bug 116108 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116108 in yakuake "[Gutsy Merge]  Please merge Yakuake (2.8~beta1-1ubuntu1) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116108
<pochu> good evening!
<nixternal> gotta love some Robin Williams
<nixternal> what needs to be done?
<nixternal> seems it was committed
<persia> nixternal: The builds need to be checked, and either a new upload to fix the build failure, or closing the bug.
<nixternal> it is built
<nixternal> oh...close the bad mama jamma
<persia> Thank you.
<nixternal> amd64, i386, powerpc, and sparc all in the archives
<SlimG> English game manuals goes into /usr/share/man/man6/ am I right?
<SlimG> or should it go into /usr/share/man/en/man6 ?
<Hobbsee> debian new maintainers guide shoudl tell you that
<jussi01> SlimG: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html if you havent got it already...
<SlimG> Debain Policy Manual refers to FHS that states /usr/share/man/<locale>/man<section>/<arch> , but when I look at the existing system on feisty it lacks <arch> and throws english manuals in /usr/share/man/man<section>/ ..?
<vijay2000> can anybody tell me wht is a .dsc file 
<gnomefreak> source file
<vijay2000> where can i find it for clamtk
<gnomefreak> apt-get source clamtk
<gnomefreak> you will get a .tar.gz a .dsc and a .diff.gz
<vijay2000> which folder of clamtk will have this file 
<gnomefreak> you wont need to unpack it that way
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: i believe its the debian dir.
<vijay2000> no i am trying to build
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: you need it all to build it
<gnomefreak> some dont have the .diff.gz but all need the .dsc and the .tar.gz
<gnomefreak> !info clamtk
<ubotu> clamtk: graphical front-end for ClamAV. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.31-0ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 39 kB, installed size 176 kB
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: are you trying to build it to patch it to pratice or just feel like it?
<vijay2000> yes i am trying to build it for practice
<gnomefreak> vijay2000: did you read the guide?
<vijay2000> nope
<gnomefreak> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<gnomefreak> i suggest you read it ;) some packages are harder than others
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<xxxxx1> hi all!
<leonel> ea
<Runlvl> exit
<fernando> hey all
<fernando> waa: music-applet: package-installs-python-pyc usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/musicapplet/applet.pyc
<fernando> this is a problem?
<fernando> s/this is/is this/
<SlimG> Is .pdf manuals supposed to be packed?
<gpocentek> fernando: I'm not a python packages expert but IIRC pyc are produced when the package is installed
<gpocentek> i.e. they should not be in te .deb
<SlimG> mkay
<gpocentek> SlimG: it's a good idea to include pdf docs in the package I think :)
<SlimG> Where should .pdf manuals be located?
<gpocentek> in /usr/share/doc/<package>/ I guess
<SlimG> gpocentek: any specific naming/rules for it?
<gpocentek> SlimG: I don't think so
<gpocentek> you can use dh_installdocs to install it
<fernando> gpocentek: i'm not creating the .pyc, i don't know where in the build process its created =)
<pochu> fernando: aren't they in the orig.tar.gz?
<fernando> pochu: no
<SlimG> My man page is beeing read as ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8, why's this?
<bmm> If there is anybody online from MOTU. I'm looking for my first advocation on ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5125 Thanks in advance!
<tepsipakki> popey: ping? or anyone familiar with mono..
<bmm> No, but you could give me a try ;)
<ajmitch> tepsipakki: yes?
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: hey, I'm trying to compile simias (a component of iFolder), but it fails miserably and I'm thinking that maybe some mono component is missing
<tepsipakki> it says "The type or namespace name `Stat' could not be found"
<tepsipakki> but shouldn't that be in Mono.Posix.dll?
<ajmitch> probably missing some linking line
<ajmitch> like -r:Mono.Posix
<tepsipakki> hmm, okay
<tepsipakki> trying to figure out where to put that.. it's for mcs?
<ajmitch> yep
<hendrixski> hey... is Sunbird not in the repos because it's not stable or because of that mozilla-debian falling out?
<pochu> hendrixski: I think both :)
<pochu> hendrixski: it wasn't built with the stable branch, and that was the reason asac hasn't built it in Debian
<hendrixski> pochu, ah
<hendrixski> yeah, I heard it was still in Debian experimental... though, I'm not sure how to check these thigns yet
<pochu> hendrixski: Maybe with the coming 0.5 release :)
<hendrixski> isn't it at 0.3.1 right now?  I'd assume .5 is a ways away
<pochu> 0.5 is in RC stage, so it will be final really soon.
<hendrixski> pochu, cool.  I've been fishing around their site and I can't find a development timeline.  But that's pretty much what I needed to know
<hendrixski> thanks :)
<pochu> hendrixski: check the developers blog :)
<asac> sunbird for 0.5 looks good
<asac> but top prio is more getting lightning ready for tbird
<asac> hendrixski: pochu ^^^
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: bah, tried giving /r:Mono.Posix.dll etc but doesn't help
<tepsipakki> maybe I'll just ask the list
<ajmitch> you shouldn't need the .dll
<ajmitch> what does gacutil -l Mono.Posix
<ajmitch> say?
<tepsipakki> two versions installed
<ajmitch> ok
<jekil> someone please can review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-25
<morphir> hi, anyone here maintain lighttpd for ubuntu?
<crimsun> the entire MOTU team maintains that source package.
<morphir> hmm
<crimsun> we don't have strict maintainers (although we often have one or two people/groups that care for certain packages primarily)
<ajmitch> if there's a bug, it's best filed on launchpad
<ajmitch> or if you want to work on it, put a patch up there
<morphir> not a bug, I wanna make a package for lighttpd1.5 beta
<morphir> I need documentation
<morphir> or if anyone care  to assist me trough making one, I would appreciate that
<crimsun> for getting started on packaging? Use the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and the Ubuntu Packaging Guide.
<crimsun> Studying the existing lighttpd source package is a secondary starting place.
<beuno> morphir: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<morphir> found it :) thanks
<morphir> crimson, I already did that. And I'am curious how the init.d was created
<crimsun> likely it was based on a template, then LSBised.
* morphir nods
<persia> crimsun: Are you still working on bug 50393?  I'm tempted to reject, but smart card failures might be considered a security vulnerability (in which case it needs help in Dapper).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 50393 in openct "[dapper-updates candidate]  Missing /var/run/openct directory after (re)boot aborts initscript execution" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/50393
<ajmitch> persia: what's the grounds for rejection?
<persia> ajmitch: It's not a software security issue, and it was fixed in edgy.  Depending on one's thoughts on smartcards, it may not meet the criteria for a Stable Release Update.
<ajmitch> I'm of the opinion that there's an easy fix supplied & tested, and that it's a good thing to fix these bugs
<persia> ajmitch: OK.  Still needs someone to steer the SRU process.  I can't test, lacking the relevant hardware.
<ajmitch> it's been nearly a year
<ajmitch> neither do I, mine is a fairly basic laptop
* persia dreams of a dedicated hardware testing team with every possible piece of hardware and sufficient available time to test everything on request.
<hendrixski> asac, why is lightning a higher priority then sunbird?
<welshbyte> heh, i almost forgot about that pygmy bug. i'll cook up a debdiff
<persia> welshbyte: That would be great.  Thanks.
<welshbyte> persia: done. should i subscribe u-u-s again or are you on the case? :)
<persia> welshbyte: I recommending subscribing U-U-S again.  I'll get bugmail and look at it when it rises to the top of the queue, but someone else might be faster :)
<welshbyte> will do
* welshbyte goes to get some sleep, g'night folks
<TheMuso> persia: If you're busy, I'll have a look.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm just processing mentee sponsorships right not.  Thanks.
<persia> s/not/now/
<TheMuso> persia: np.
<TheMuso> Not that there is actually anything that needs doing..
* TheMuso was looking a little earlier.
<persia> TheMuso: for pygmy? or for UUS?
<TheMuso> persia: uus
* persia sees 63 bugs outstanding :)
<ajmitch> once you're finished with those, the next challenge is to search for all bugs in universe with a patch attached
<ajmitch> many of those do not have u-u-s subscribed
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.component=4&field.component=3&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_du
<ajmitch> yay for LP urls
* ajmitch sees a number of duplicate bug tasks
<persia> ajmitch: Actually, would you mind tagging all those "patch"?  One of my mentees is working on packaging, and is using the "patch" tag to prepare debdiffs for things.  Thanks.
<ajmitch> persia: that will take awhile :)
<ajmitch> maybe Hobbsee could do some?
<persia> ajmitch: Thanks Hobbsee :)
* ajmitch delegates
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> what's this?
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch, persia, TheMuso 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: bugs with patches attached, tagging them with 'patch'
<morphir> is chkconfig being replaced with anything?
<ajmitch> something that would best be automated with bughelper if possible
<Hobbsee> ahh
<ajmitch> morphir: you mean the system of update-rc.d/invoke-rc.d ?
<persia> ajmitch: Actually that's true.  Us telling each other to do it doesn't help so much.
* persia files bug against bughelper
<morphir> ajmitch, I prbly do, don't I
* morphir scratches head
<ajmitch> not sure of the value of tagging them with 'patch' when it's simple to search for bugs with patches attached
<Hobbsee> tbh, i dont know why you....damn you, ajmitch 
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: hm?
<Hobbsee> you beat me to what i was going to say.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> that's why I pasted a long url just before you came in
<ajmitch> the list of bugs with patches
<ajmitch> of course it repeats a lot
* persia thinks https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=patch is a nice short URL for pasting.
* ajmitch should lart jdong 
<ajmitch> there's plenty of xserver-xgl stuff that he promised to care for :)
<Hobbsee> yep
<Burgundavia> isn't xgl dead?
<ajmitch> sadly no
<Burgundavia> where do I sign up to kill it?
<ajmitch> ATI (now AMD)
* ajmitch should sort his LP bug mail better
<Hobbsee> sort it via /dev/null
<ajmitch> split out stuff I receive from the firehose (ubuntu-bugs)
* persia goes to visit a client
<nixternal> VISTA LOVE!
<nixternal> oops, did I say that out loud
<jmg> no, you said it on irc
<crimsun> persia: I'll look at it in an hour.
<crimsun> d'oh
<LaserJock> crimsun: do you have any idea what Ubuntu's position on -nonfree doc packages from Debian?
<crimsun> LaserJock: I haven't heard anything different to Debian WRT policy, but I'm not a core -doc member.
<Burgundavia> afaic, we don't consider that stuff nonfree
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I don't know of any documentation of that
<Burgundavia> chat with Keybuk
<LaserJock> I've got lots of -nonfree doc related stuff in TeX
<LaserJock> some of it is invariant FDL
<Burgundavia> ugh
<Burgundavia> poor you
<ScottK> Good evening all.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK 
<ScottK> Hello Hobbsee.
<ajmitch> hello
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> causing trouble again, are you?
<ajmitch> yep!
<ajmitch> it's what I do best
<SlimG> Should all the results from "ldd <binary>" be added to "Depends:" in DEBIAN/control ?
<crimsun> god no.
<SlimG> why?
<ajmitch> because dpkg-shlibdeps does that automatically when you do things properly 
<crimsun> done properly, it should be the _minimal_ set of runtime dependencies. Package X will depend on Y, and if you include both packages X & Y in the Depends: field, it's redundant.
<LaserJock> well, my first Main sync ended with FTBFS on all archs
<LaserJock> don't I rock ;-)
<SlimG> Does it make any difference that I'm creating a binary package? (closed-source), how can I know what dependencies to add/not add from ldd <binary> ?
<SlimG> Doesn't the binary require all the libs listed by ldd to work?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, I've screwed up worse than that
<LaserJock> well, I don't think it was me, at least
<ajmitch> LaserJock: in this case, it was all me
<beuno> does anyone know the command to create a Debian (sid) pbuilder enviroment in Ubuntu?   I can't seem to get it working  :(
<LaserJock> the package built fine in my pbuilder and StevenK's amd64 pbuilder
* ajmitch has to spend a weekend on ubuntu & debian, I think
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh, one of those
<LaserJock> but it puked on the buildds
<ajmitch> got a build log?
<LaserJock> http://librarian.launchpad.net/7824279/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.gcompris_8.3.1-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* ajmitch looks
<ajmitch> that's the one with the large tarball, right? :)
<ajmitch> couldn't find gnuchess? interesting
* ajmitch will grab on imbrandon's box if possible
<LaserJock> gnuchess is now part of gnome-games
<ajmitch> and it build-deps on gnome-games?
<ajmitch> sounds ugly
<LaserJock> it build deps on gnuchess
* ajmitch is trying to fetch source
<ajmitch> so why are you surprised that it breaks?
<LaserJock> good luck, it's 100MB
<ajmitch> ]  23,624,832   126.96K/s    ETA 07:10
<ajmitch> another few minutes
<LaserJock> because pbuilder and the buildds pick up gnome-games
<ajmitch> grabbing with wget
* ajmitch wouldn't be surprised if it's environment related
<LaserJock> the buildd gives this when looking for gnuchess:
<LaserJock> Note, selecting gnome-games instead of gnuchess
<ajmitch> I know
<SlimG> crimsun: so I should ldd <binary>, ignore the one's that's installed out-of-box in ex. feisty and add the rest to "Depends:" in DEBIAN/control ? I don't quite understand your answer, I'm not going to add the current application to it's own "Depends:"
<crimsun> SlimG: I recommend you take a look at what dpkg-shlibdeps(1) does, as ajmitch referred to it.
<SlimG> crimsun: ok
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'm sure that configure.in is wrong
<ajmitch> AC_PATH_PROG(GNUCHESS, gnuchess,no,[/usr/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/bin:$PATH] )
<ajmitch> but my autotools knowledge is lacking
<StevenK> I have gnome-games and no gnuchess here.
<ajmitch> quite right, I don't either
<ajmitch> perhaps only debian moved gnuchess into gnome-games? :)
<StevenK> It's possible.
<LaserJock> StevenK: but why did it work for you and me?
<StevenK> That's a damn good question.
<SlimG> ajmitch: does dpkg-shlibdeps find all the dependencies in <binary>, and discards the one's that is installed by default in ex. feisty ? just curious on how it works, I've managed to get dpkg-shlibdeps to work just fine.
<tepsipakki> ajmitch: /d:MONONATIVE did the trick :)
<TheMuso> Gotta love renovations.
<imbrandon> ... moins all
<dholbach> GOOD MORNING!
<lionel> morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hey lionel
<imbrandon> moins dholbach 
<dholbach> heya imbrandon
<dholbach> hey jussi01
<jussi01> good morning dholbach
<elkbuntu> in a good mood today dholbach?
<jussi01> Hello motu's. I have just noticed a small problem with my package, that I dont know how to fix. I have a menu file, and it seems to be ok, but when i install the deb, nothing appears in the menu. I havent restarted x, but that shouldnt be necessary? anyone got an idea about this?
<dholbach> elkbuntu: YES :)
<jussi01> dholbach: I assume you got my email? :D
<dholbach> jussi01: do you call dh_installmenu in debian/rules?
* elkbuntu larts dholbach's caps lock key
* Fujitsu wonders why on earth he got a maxima bug report emailed directly to him.
<jussi01> dholbach: Im using cdbs
<Fujitsu> jussi01: menu, or .desktop?
<jussi01> menu
<dholbach> jussi01: yes, I'm working my way through my inbox steadily
<jussi01> dholbach: :D
<dholbach> jussi01: does   sudo update-menus  fix it?
<jussi01> dholbach: that gives me command not found. Does it make a difference if im on kde?
<dholbach> do you have the 'menu' package installed?
<imbrandon> if your on kde kicker has to be restarted
<imbrandon> sudo killall kicker && kicker &
<dholbach> if you don't have 'menu', then you have no debian menus, which is where a .menu file entry should turn up
<imbrandon> kde doesnt use menu
<dholbach> aha?
<dholbach> what does it use for the debian menu thing then?
<imbrandon> it dosent
<dholbach> how do you get .menu entries in kde then?
<imbrandon> they dont show by default
<imbrandon> you dont , you use the .desktop
<imbrandon> heh
<dholbach> and there's no way to get them?
<imbrandon> well you can install menu, but it will dupe all menu entries then
<imbrandon> in the kmenu
<dholbach> ok, so 'menu' gets you the Debian menu entries
<jussi01> ok, methinks i need a .desktop
<jussi01> ?
<dholbach> jussi01: using dh_installmenu will generate bits in the postinst which calls update-menus (if it's there)
<dholbach> but yeah, better to have a .desktop
<jussi01> dholbach: does cdbs not already call that dh_ command?
<dholbach> yes it does
<dholbach> I just wanted to point out what the command does
<jussi01> ok, well since the program is in the section kde, i think maybe I should actually put a .desktop
<jussi01> dholbach: thanks
<jussi01> :D
<dholbach> righto
* jussi01 doesnt know how to make a .desktop hmmm, someone got the syntax somewhere?
<dholbach> good luck with that :)
<dholbach> look in /usr/share/applications :)
<imbrandon> heh
<jussi01> thanks
<crimsun> bah, may as well do this security fix and forego sleep.
<imbrandon> heya crimsun 
* dholbach hugs crimsun
<dholbach> crimsun: better take a nap, no?
<shawarma> I know I said I'd make the meeting 5 hours from now, but since I've had 7 hours of sleep in the past 75 hours I don't think there's much chance that I'll be in a non-horizontal position at 1100 UTC.
<dholbach> crimsun, shawarma: go to sleep! :-)
<crimsun> shawarma: to make it at 1200 UTC? Ok, sleep well.
<jussi01> lol
<shawarma> crimsun: It's 1100UTC, no?
<crimsun> the meeting's at 1200 UTC.
<crimsun> if it were 1100, I wouldn't have even contemplated sleep
<shawarma> Ah. I've got to hand in a paper by 10 UTC, so I won't be sleeping until then.
<dholbach> shawarma: good luck with all that
<shawarma> dholbach: Thanks. It's going to be good to get this over with. :)
<dholbach> I think I know what you mean :-)
<shawarma> Yes, I have some more interesting business to attend to. :) Oh, well, better get back to the books.
* shawarma staggers off again
<StevenK> 523 scribus_1.3.3.9.dfsg-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<StevenK> Mmmm, yummy.
<beuno> hello, I'm following the ubuntu packaging guide, and I'm stuck with   "/usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied", what am I doing wrong?
<RAOF> StevenK: ?
<StevenK> RAOF: wc -l on a .changes
<beuno> (this is while doing "dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot")
<StevenK> beuno: debian/rules needs to be executable.
<beuno> StevenK: you are right, thanks!   (shouldn't that be specified in the guide?)
<RAOF> That's a nice big changes file. :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Yes. It contains changelog entries from 72 releases. :-)
<minghua> beuno: yes it should
<dholbach>  debuild -S -sa -v0.0? ;-)
<StevenK> dholbach: scribus 1.2.5 -> 1.3.3.9
<beuno> minghua: it's not a wiki, so I can't edit, should I file a bug?
<RAOF> Wow.  Took a long while for scribus-ng to be considered stable, eh?
<minghua> beuno: that's the problem, I don't know how to file a bug against the packaging guide
<minghua> beuno: I usually just pester LaserJock to fix it, but he isn't here now
<minghua> beuno: if you can figure out how to file the bug, let me know
<beuno> minghua: I'll take up that challenge as soon as I finish going through the guide,  :D
<StevenK> RAOF: Looks that way.
<StevenK> Hrm.
* StevenK wonders how that change was made.
<dholbach> minghua, beuno: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+filebug
<beuno> dholbach: thanks, filing now!
<minghua> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<crimsun> hmph. Current -security practice seems conflicting just upon inspecting debian/changelog entries.
<crimsun> methinks SecurityUpdateProcedures needs clarification.
<nixternal> oi
<dholbach> what do you all think about having something like http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes - where we walk people through say 1) doing a simple change and generate a debdiff from there, 2) update a package to a new version, 3) drop in a dpatch, etc.?
<beuno> dholbach: +1 to anything that helps us newcommers to packaging   :D
<crimsun> um yeah. "Subscribe to and send a notification to the security review mailing list ([WWW]  security-review@lists.ubuntu.com)" would work better if we hadn't _deleted_ the mailing list.
<crimsun> dholbach: yes, that would be nice. We should link to pitti's classroom lecture on patching, too.
<crimsun> [in that appropriate section] 
<StevenK> Should this be discussed at the meeting, too?
<dholbach> yeah why not
<dholbach> although we'll have QUITE a long agenda this time
<dholbach> but this just shows how much activity we have at the moment :-)
<crimsun> well, I've just restocked my tea cabinet, so I should be good. :-)
<dholbach> added :)
<dholbach> hmmmmm, tea - good idea
<imbrandon> mt dew flavord tea ? :)
* dholbach wanders off to make some
<crimsun> ok, #116754 prepared & tested/verified; uploaded to gutsy. Time for my morning run.
<imbrandon> mmm a Ubuntu Development "Cookbook", what a great idea, i love the O'Reilly Cookbook series
<beuno> dholbach: btw, thanks for getting back to me so quickly about the UWN interview   ;D
<StevenK> dholbach: Is the Agenda in the wiki? If it is, I'd suggest a link is added here and to #ubuntu-meeting before the meeting starts.
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<crimsun> it's also linked on the fridge node.
<crimsun> (also linked from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-May/000978.html)
<StevenK> I meant in the /topic, actually.
<StevenK> crimsun: I've got a dorky question if you have a sec.
<imbrandon> the meeting is in +5 hours from now correct ? ( just making sure i have my time info right )
<StevenK> crimsun: One of the Ubuntu changes for Scribus is "Scribus.pot: Add strings from desktop file."; I'm just entirely unsure how this is done, and wouldn't mind a pointer or cluebat.
<StevenK> imbrandon: The fridge agrees.
<dholbach> beuno: no problem :-)
<imbrandon> k
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o dholbach]  by ChanServ
<dholbach> we should have a MOTU/GettingStarted
<dholbach> we could add most of the links of the topic there
* dholbach starts it off
<StevenK> dholbach: Sounds good to me.
<crimsun> StevenK: I haven't looked at scribus; was it added manually? (I'm not aware of an automated procedure to add from desktop files.)
<viviersf> guys if i wanna upload stuff to universe
<viviersf> whats the process in doing that
<StevenK> crimsun: I'm unsure. I'm quite tempted to ask pitii.
<imbrandon> viviersf, well first you have to be a MOTU , or have a MOTU to sponsor your upload
<crimsun> viviersf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<minghua> StevenK, crimsun: most likely it's a intltool-update thing
<viviersf> imbrandon, cool ill irritate ajmitch then :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted | Meeting today: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o dholbach]  by dholbach
<StevenK> intltool-extract on the .desktop doesn't give me a thing.
<jussi01> gah, im all confused...
<jussi01> whats the correct way to tell the package to install the desktop file?
<StevenK> jussi01: A .install file if the package has one.
<jussi01> StevenK: it doesnt, should I just make one?
<StevenK> It's one way. Another way is to run cp in debian/rules.
<StevenK> In either case, dh_desktop should be called in binary-indep, which will update the postinst and postrm.
<jussi01> StevenK: ok, Ill try the install file
<jussi01> StevenK: I assume .desktop file goes in the package dir, not debian dir?
<StevenK> If it isn't from upstream, it's usually placed in the debian dir.
<jussi01> oh, alright then
<jussi01> thanks
<minghua> StevenK: not necessarily binary-indep if it only builds one arch:any package
<StevenK> minghua: Well, I guessed. :-)
* StevenK goes to brave peak-hour traffic.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hah, what a stupid idea.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Like you're even old enough to drive. :-P
<Fujitsu> Pfft.
<Fujitsu> I should probably get a learner permit soon.
<StevenK> To be honest, it usually isn't too bad on the way home.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> MOTU meeting in 4 hrs
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right. You might want to go to bed now.
<LaserJock> dholbach: I just saw your little "MOTU Recipies" addition to the agenda
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: not much of a chance of me making that
<Fujitsu> Aw..
<LaserJock> since I'm not going to make the meeting
<LaserJock> I had a thought
<LaserJock> actually, I've been thinking about it for some time
<imbrandon> LaserJock, sure you'll be awake :)
<LaserJock> what if the packaging guide turned into a guid on the wiki
<LaserJock> *guide
* minghua is not sure it's a good idea
<minghua> but then again, I did almost nothing for packaging guide
<LaserJock> the thing for me
<LaserJock> is that I don't get a lot of help with it and I don't have a ton of time to write it myself
<LaserJock> you have to learn docbook and get somewhat involved with the Doc team if you want to work on it much
<LaserJock> and then some material gets outdated fast
<dholbach> how hard would it be to convert wikispeak to docbook?
<LaserJock> it depends
<LaserJock> right now it could be a decently big deal if I wanted to do everything in moin and then convert to docbook
<LaserJock> but for a section at a time it's reasonably easy
<LaserJock> an alternative thought
<LaserJock> would be to maintain a short, "Getting Started" kind of doc in docbook
<jussi01> Hmmm, If someone has time, could they review my package? It is mnemosyne http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5267 Thanks a lot
<LaserJock> the kind people could print out, etc.
<dholbach> so if we used the wiki for updating/changing it in the team and converted fed changes back into docbook - how sensible would that be?
<LaserJock> I'm hesitant to do that for the whole thing
<LaserJock> at least at this point
<LaserJock> but I think some sections at least could be
<LaserJock> do people prefer to have the packaging guide non-wiki?
<LaserJock> it's definatly easier to print when it's not wiki
<dholbach> it might be a good idea to discuss that on the list
<dholbach> to get even more input on it
<LaserJock> mhm
<dholbach> and maybe we find a good solution there
<LaserJock> I wanted to add an agenda item
<LaserJock> but I'm not going to make the meeting so I hate adding items
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> best to discuss on the list then
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I think it might be best, in any case, to tie together the great stuff that's going on in the MOTU wiki with the packaging guide
<shawarma> jussi01: You refer to the GPL rather than GPL-2 in your debian/copyright.
<shawarma> jussi01: Your copyright file also doesn't list copyright holders. It's not necessarily the same as the authors.
<dholbach> this is what I use - maybe it's useful to you:
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ cat bin/check-copyright 
<dholbach> find . -name '*.c' -o -name '*.h' -o -name '*.cpp' -o -name '*.cc' -o -name '*.hh' -o -name '*.py' | xargs head | less
<dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ 
<jussi01> dholbach: thank you, I didnt even know that could be done
<jussi01> shawarma: Ill have a look at it
<shawarma> jussi01: :)
<jussi01> hmmm, do i ned to have some package to do that? that command doesnt like me...
<shawarma> jussi01: What's the problem?
<jussi01> jussi@jussi-laptop:~$ cat bin/check-copyright
<jussi01> cat: bin/check-copyright: No such file or directory
<shawarma> Ah, leave that bit out.
<shawarma> That's just dholbach showing that he has it in a script.
<jussi01> ahhhh... 
<shawarma> Just start from the "find" command.
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> shawarma: I understood that i referred to the gpl2.... ie. 
<jussi01> either version 2 of the License, or
<jussi01>    (at your option) any later version.
<shawarma> Yes. You refer to version 1.
<shawarma> Doh.
<shawarma> No, you didn't.
* shawarma takes of his reviewer hat.
<shawarma> I'm way too tired to be doing this. :)
<jussi01> heh, I did, on the bottom...
<jussi01> shawarma: no probs, thanks a lot anyway :D
<beuno> ok, I'm still following the packaging guide, and I'm getting this when trying to build in a pbuilder enviroment:  gzip: debian/tmp/usr/share/man: No such file or directory
<beuno> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 1
<beuno> I can imagine it's a problem with the "rules" file, but I'm not sure if that should be happening if I followed the guide...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> you're building hello?
<LaserJock> or hello-debhelper?
<beuno> LaserJock: hello
<minghua> hello's makefile should install man pages, I think
<beuno> ok, I just found a difference between the one in Ubuntu and in the guide (from which I copied), might be due to that
<beuno> (still not sure if that should end up in an error though)
<imbrandon> ping6 ping6
<imbrandon> err
<LaserJock> umm
<LaserJock> kill -9 kill -9
<LaserJock> I can rap too ;-)
<imbrandon> lol was supose to be `ping6 2001:618:400::4887:85` but not in irssi
<imbrandon> :)
<keescook> crimsun: sweet, thanks for preparing the pulseaudio debdiff!
* Fujitsu thinks ISPs should get their acts together and provide v6.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, no doubt
<imbrandon> tb are a pita
<Fujitsu> But I can't see that happening soon.
<Fujitsu> Heh, yeah.
<Fujitsu> High latency, often completely stuffed routing...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, you have v6 connecttivity ?
<Fujitsu> Affirmative.
<imbrandon> can you ping that addr i just pasted
<imbrandon> or try to
* Fujitsu tries.
<beuno> aaargh... either something's not right with the packaging guide, or I go the ubuntu source package from some weird place, it now mentions "postinst" and "prerm" files, which are not in the ubuntu source...
<beuno> (the document problem gets solved by *not* using the ubuntu package rules file, and copy & pasting from the guide)
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> that means I'm getting farther behind
<beuno> has this been tested in Feisty?
<LaserJock> I need a "Packaging Guide" cleanup day
<LaserJock> beuno: not particularly
<beuno> LaserJock: sorry to bring it up then   :(
<LaserJock> no, it's fine
<beuno> just got the urge to get a bit involved in packaging, in part because of nixternal, so you can blame him if you want  :D
<LaserJock> ohh, sweet
<LaserJock> I love blaming nixternal 
<beuno> LaserJock: if I an help you clean it up, I'll be glad to, I have to get through it anyway   :p
<LaserJock> well, you can file bugs against ubuntu-doc upstream and put Packaging Guide in the summary
<minghua> packaging guide doesn't even show up on the "7.04 documentations" last time I checked
<LaserJock> nope
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I can't ping that, but I can ping other things.
<imbrandon> k
<LaserJock> I don't think the packaging guide was ever built into HTML or PDF for 7.04
<LaserJock> :/
<beuno> LaserJock: oki doke, I'll start filing bugs then
<LongPointyStick> hi LaserJock, imbrandon, Fujitsu, minghua 
<beuno> anyway I can get around this "postinst" and "prerm" issue now?
<minghua> hello Sarah
<imbrandon> ello Sarah
<Fujitsu> ... wow. US$275 for 1 year of Canonical support on the Dell Ubuntu machines.
<LaserJock> beuno: the Guide has then but you don't see it in the ubuntu source?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, I kinda wondered about those
<beuno> LaserJock: yeap, the guide says to copy them over, but they're not present in the source package downloaded from apt
<LaserJock> ok, just ignore them then I guess
<beuno> LaserJock: and when I do and try to build, I get: install: cannot stat `debian/postinst': No such file or directory
<beuno> install: cannot stat `debian/prerm': No such file or directory
<beuno> make: *** [binary-arch]  Error 1
<beuno> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
<minghua> bad, bad guide :-)
<beuno> :p
<beuno> remove them from rules manually then?
<beuno> (I'll file the bug anyway)
* jussi01 pokes Hobbsee... hello
<minghua> beuno: in the line "install -m 755 debian/postinst debian/prerm debian/tmp/DEBIAN"
<Hobbsee> hey jussi01 :)
<minghua> beuno: delete the postinst and prerm
<minghua> beuno: that's debian/rules file
<beuno> minghua: great, removed both those items, lets go at it again
* beuno will continut to file bugs against the guide until he's gone through it  :p
<LaserJock> great
* LaserJock stabs nixternal with a large spoon
* minghua wonder if we can persuade beuno to become the maintainer of packaging guide :-)
<beuno> minghua: I wouldn't mind, it would help me learn the stuff   :p
<minghua> beuno: oh sorry, you need to remove the whole "install -m ..." line
<minghua> beuno: not just removing the two items
<beuno> my goal this year is to become MOTU and DD, so I'll get into this packaging mess anyway   :p
* LaserJock notes that he very willing to sponsor patches
<LaserJock> *he is
<minghua> MOTU, good chance; DD, not so much :-)
<LaserJock> s/year/decade/ and it might work ;-)
<Fujitsu> DD in 7 months? That'd be quick.
<beuno> minghua: I know, it's on the list anyway, I've got my ticket to debconf to have an intensive session   :D
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Do you remember how long it took me? :-P
<Fujitsu> But you're ancient.
<StevenK> It took ages back then, too.
<beuno> I'm not in a hurry, just want to get more involved on the development side of things to have a better understanding of the whole picture
<Fujitsu> I recall hamish mentioning how back when he joined the ranks of the DD (although that was aaages ago) that it basically involved a phone call to verify you were real, and you were in.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: How long did it take you?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: From applying to getting an account - 1 week.
<LaserJock> shesh
<viviersf> siretart, ping
<Fujitsu> Ah yes, I think you might've mentioned that before.
<StevenK> Heh.
* beuno curses the packaging guide
* Fujitsu drops it on beuno.
<beuno> aaaaaaargh, it's heavy for something being so out of date
* beuno runs
<tepsipakki> Seveas: ping
<beuno> yaaaay, it built
<beuno> I only have to file 3 bugs to the guide to be able to be reproducable
<viviersf> :(
<imbrandon> heya nixternal 
<jussi01> persia: !
<jussi01> :D
<persia> hi jussi01
<keescook> ScottK: I won't be able to make it to the motu meeting, but I like the sound of your plan.  :)
* keescook is finally off to bed
<LaserJock> getting late huh
<LaserJock> 1:40am
<sorsis> does anyone follow tomcat5.5 section for ubuntu in launchpad?
<sorsis> oh. nothing. sorry.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Just think, only 3 hours until the meeting.
<siretart> viviersf: sorry, please try in a few hours again
* LongPointyStick is here too.  
* LongPointyStick DOOMS Fujitsu 
* StevenK ponders running a choice command.
<Hobbsee> choice command?
<StevenK> Yes. skill
<StevenK> skill (1)            - send a signal or report process status
* Fujitsu wonders what ate ubuntu.com... I think being able to see the content without scrolling a lot might be useful
<danohuiginn> when a package is removed from ubuntu, is the reason for removal recorded anywhere?
<StevenK> danohuiginn: Yes. people.u.c/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<danohuiginn> thanks, StevenK
<Amaranth> did you know someone owns uubuntu.com?
<\sh> Amaranth: whois is your friend
<dholbach> ajmitch, gpocentek, crimsun: you there? do you know a bit about mailman? it'd be nice if we could finally fix universe-bugs to get all *verse bugs
<dholbach> ajmitch, gpocentek, crimsun: I thought about subscribing to ubuntu-bugs@ and adding a spam rule that rejects everything that does not have  ^X-Launchpad-Bug:.*component:(uni|multi)verse.*  or something
* ajmitch is sort of alive
<ajmitch> dunno if I'll be alive at meeting time
<Fujitsu> component=, not component:, but that would work.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: right, yes
<dholbach> that way we could even drop the ~motu team
<Fujitsu> But we just moved to using motu a couple of months back.
<ajmitch> hm, I should have a password for that list somewhere
<Hobbsee> then there be more more motu, and we dont have upload privs? fun.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: I think bugs is the only use we have for 'motu'
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ubuntu-dev
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you'll be core dev, so it won't matter :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: motu was never about upload rights
<Hobbsee> dholbach: which contains core
<Hobbsee> as well
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: heh, maybe
<Fujitsu> dholbach: motu is upload rights now.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: they want to interview me, and burn me at the stake.
<persia> dholbach: It works that way now.  MOTU is a member of ubuntu-dev.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Burn!
* Hobbsee burns Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Damn.
* Fujitsu loses again.
<Hobbsee> yes.
<dholbach> persia: it's not
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Yes it is....
* persia is confused again
<dholbach> Fujitsu: do I miss something on http://launchpad.net/~motu/+members
<dholbach> ?
<persia> dholbach: I'm a member of MOTU directly, which put me in ubuntu-dev indirectly.  I'm not sure how else that would work.
<ajmitch> dholbach: other way round
<Fujitsu> s/motu/ubuntu-dev/ in that URL.
<dholbach> right
<ajmitch> it's not a 2-way membership
<persia> Does LP even support 2-way membership?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> dunno how it'd work
<dholbach> I think it'd be nice to just have ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-dev
<dholbach> and for universe-bugs@ to just work
<Fujitsu> dholbach: I guess...
<Fujitsu> I don't recall the rationale for moving back to motu.
* Fujitsu looks it up.
<persia> dholbach: works for me, but the name "MOTU" has a lot of psychological value at this point.
<dholbach> right, but there's still all the mailing lists, the wiki and stuff that still mentions MOTU - it's not that we rename everything
<dholbach> it's just to make the LP teams and their use more obvious
<Fujitsu> I guess if universe-bugs means we don't need a special team, there's no reason to keep the team around
<persia> Makes sense.  I've been using ~ubuntu-dev as the LP group of interest in any case.
<dholbach> that's what I meant
<geser> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-February/023309.html that's the mail which started the ~ubuntu-dev -> ~motu move
<Fujitsu> Yep, I found that a while ago.
<Fujitsu> Doesn't give much of a rationale for not using ubuntu-dev, other than that was how it used to be.
<siretart> viviersf: pong
<alfredoj69> Good morning everybody
<SlimG> How does dpkg-shlibdeps work? does it find all dependencies required by <binary> and strip those dependencies that is installed in ex. feisty by default?
<Hobbsee> is the meeting at 9 or 10?
<StevenK> 10
<ajmitch> past my bed time
<persia> 1 hour from now, now?
<persia> s/w?/?/
<Hobbsee> good
<alfredoj69> is it at 8:00 AM EST?
<sorsis> if i use adept, why doesn't it see all packages that apt-get and apt-cache sees?
<Fujitsu> You should probably ask that in #kubuntu.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: what do i do if a bug already has a patch but no one has done anything with the bug?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: create a debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<ajmitch> do what Hobbsee says
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ok
<ScottK> ajmitch: Isn't that generally what one does?
<ajmitch> ScottK: not I
<Hobbsee> yes, but you're silly
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i did not know whether the person who submitted the patch does it or not :P
<ScottK> How long ago did they attach the patch?
<joejaxx> let me see
<joejaxx> 2006-10-08
<persia> joejaxx: backupninja?
<joejaxx> what is that?
<ajmitch> persia: I guess that's a no :)
<ScottK> joejaxx: I'd say it's a safe bet they've done what they are going to do and you should feel free.
<persia> joejaxx: Nevermind.  I've just been looking at too many old patches - it's another one from last october.
<joejaxx> ScottK: ok
<joejaxx> persia: ah ok
<joejaxx> is there a page on correct changelog formatting?
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: beyond dch -i ?
<joejaxx> yes
<Hobbsee> dont think so
<Hobbsee> what in particular are you asking about?
<joejaxx> well i have one file
<joejaxx> debian/control
<joejaxx> that i have done more than one thing to
<joejaxx> so i cannot put debian/control: blah
<Hobbsee> you can have multiple *'s
<joejaxx> so i use the - but i do not know how many characters over i am supposed to put them
<joejaxx> oh
<Hobbsee> just with an enter in between
<joejaxx> ok then
<StevenK> joejaxx: Mostly, it's just guidelines, anyway.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: see "aptitude changelog kdepim" for an eg
<joejaxx> alright
<Hobbsee> preferably noting the bad linebreak in my changelog entry
<DktrKranz> could you please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5151 ?
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: that is weird
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: there is not a changelog for the latest version
<joejaxx> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/k/kdepim/
<StevenK> changelogs.u.c probably updates daily.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: it's a bit slow, yes.
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> ok
<Hobbsee> (whereas aptitude changelog reads thru your apt cache)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: so would this be correct? http://fluxbuntu.org/bug61151.patch
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: perfect ;)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: yeah it tried getting the changelog from c.u.c
<crimsun> keescook: np, thanks for processing it :)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: ok :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: of course, dch -i will do most of that for you, which is good - like automatically put in the *'s each time you hit enter, etc
<Hobbsee> i'm presuming you've found that :)
<joejaxx> it does not do that for me :(
<joejaxx> i have to manually add them
<persia> DktrKranz: What problem is debomatic designed to solve?
<Hobbsee> i thought.  perhaps not
<persia> Hobbsee: Depends on your $EDITOR
<Hobbsee> point
* Hobbsee takes this opportunity to poke imbrandon, and declare that NANO SUCKS.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: Lol
<StevenK> Woo!
* Fujitsu agrees with Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> :P
<joejaxx> nano ftw :D
* joejaxx runs
<StevenK> I remember a certain someone telling me that vi is dreadful.
<joejaxx> i actually use both nano and vi
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: so i submit the patch on  LP and set it to in progress and subscribe?
<persia> So, just to make sure I understand: "emacs is great" OR "vi is great" AND "nano sucks" is true?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it becomes better with further use.  kate's still my favorite for multi-way diffs, though
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, shush
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<StevenK> I tend to use emacs more often, but I know my way around vi fairly well.
<Hobbsee> persia: please give joejaxx that link about contributing for u-u-s stuff, i've cleared my cache :(
<persia> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue isn't quite what you want, but may be what Hobbsee is asking about.
<Hobbsee> persia: yep, that's the one, thanks.
<joejaxx> persia: ok thanks
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  I'm still drafting proper instructions, and likely to collide with MOTU/Recipies, but we'll find out in about an hour.
<Hobbsee> persia: :)
<Hobbsee> persia: it looks good so far
<Hobbsee> persia: and last i knew, i'm the team owner, and the head of it, so..
<StevenK> Hobbsee rules over u-u-s with an iron long pointy stick of doom?
<persia> Hobbsee: I'd rather get Contributor documentation up to the level of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: how does your package depend from pbuilder with scripts, or from prevu, jdong's backport tool?
<DrKranz> sorry, network troubles
<Hobbsee> persia: i look forward to seeing it :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: of course
<joejaxx> persia: why do you want to unsubscribe u-u-s if you cannot upload? :\
<DrKranz> anyway
* persia returns to $EDITOR
<DrKranz> debomatic is a simple build machine for debian source packages based on pbuilder. It handles chroot updates automatically and it permits to build against Ubuntu or Debian, but it should be possible to extend it to every Debian-based distribution easily.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: i believe that's a section, unclearly marked, meaning HOWTO:  "MOTU queue processing procedures"
<joejaxx> oh
* Hobbsee fixes
<persia> joejaxx: Sorry.  That's a draft for discussion at the upcoming meeting, and not yet very clean.
<persia> Hobbsee: Thank you.
<joejaxx> oh ok
* joejaxx unassigns himself
<crimsun> dholbach: how do you feel about moving "Current Work Mode" and "Current Freezes" on wiki/MOTU immediately above "MOTU News"?
<persia> DrKranz: OK.  Thanks.
<DrKranz> np
<crimsun> * Reminder: MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 20 minutes *
<jussi01> crimsun: can only motu's attend a motu meeting?
<crimsun> jussi01: everyone's welcome
<jussi01> :D
<Hobbsee> jussi01: no...but we do eat a nonMOTU for breakfast.
* Puzzle est away.. [working...]  [t7DS: pager/on logging/on] 
<crimsun> (actually that's just Hobbsee ;-)
<jussi01> Hobbsee: even a motu hopeful?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<ScottK> crimsun: I have to run kids to school, so I may be a few minutes late, but I will be at the meeting.
<jussi01> :P
<Hobbsee> jussi01: of course
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<crimsun> ScottK: excellent
<joejaxx> grrr
<joejaxx> silly me
<dholbach> crimsun: yeah, why not
<crimsun> dholbach: done.
<joejaxx> wow
<joejaxx> dpatch is NICE
<joejaxx> i have to fix my debdiff
<crimsun> wait til you get to dpatch-edit-patch.
<joejaxx> yeap i just ran that :D
<persia> DrKranz: Commented.
<joejaxx> hello raphink :)
<dholbach> motu meeting in 3 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<mumbly2> hello raphink :o)
<raphink> hi joejaxx, dholbach && mumbly2
<dholbach> hi raphink
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> crimsun: i have to create a new patch because i forgot it uses dpatch
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> crimsun: does dpatch not apply with debuild -S -sa?
<persia> joejaxx: There's a meeting on now, but it doesn't.
<crimsun> err, it normally shouldn't be if you modified debian/rules appropriately
<crimsun> -S should only be running clean
<joejaxx> persia: oh ok
<joejaxx> crimsun: ok
<xxxxx1> morning people!
<Hobbsee> hiya
<SlimG> How does dpkg-shlibdeps work? does it find all dependencies required by <binary> and strip out those dependencies that is installed in ex. feisty by default?
<joejaxx> nice i fixed that debdiff
<joejaxx> :)
* joejaxx learned the dpatch system
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> yay!
<dholbach> hi gpocentek
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: this one looks alot better
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: http://fluxbuntu.org/bug61151.patch
<joejaxx> uses the already existing (should have done this in the beginning) patch system
<joejaxx> although i do not know whether the name of the dpatch patch is adequate enough
<asac> joejaxx: the name doesn't matter so much as long as its somehow reasonable imo. if you document your patch in DP: lines properly, you definitly earn bonus points :). important things to note there might be: what does the patch do, whats the state (bugid in lp, send upstream (bugid) - bugid?, committed upstream), etc.
<crimsun> origin, CVE as appropriate, etc.
<joejaxx> asac: crimsun ok i will add a better (create one) description
<crimsun> joejaxx: not to harp my pony, but http://librarian.launchpad.net/7826815/pulseaudio_0.9.5-5ubuntu4.1.debdiff.new is an example.
<joejaxx> crimsun: thanks :)
<Fujitsu> Aaaaargh, somebody just filed a bug using a really old script announcing their intent to merge mplayer.
<StevenK> Bwhaha
<joejaxx> :P
<Hobbsee> what, another one?
<Fujitsu> Considering their mplayer is horribly mangled and completely different, I don't like their chances.
<Fujitsu> They assigned it to the MOTU Merges Team!
<Hobbsee> hah
<ajmitch> nice
<Hobbsee> reject it then :P
<Hobbsee> is that the same guy as this morning?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: what's the bug #?
<Hobbsee> "foo needs a merge"
<Fujitsu> Bug #116832
* Hobbsee kicks ubotu 
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, it is :)
<Fujitsu> It took 20 minutes to respond a few hours ago.
<StevenK> MOTU: <your IRC nick>
<Hobbsee> i knew that guy was on crack...
* StevenK chuckles.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: lol
<_MMA_> Malone bug 116832 in mplayer "mplayer: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116832
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116832 in mplayer "mplayer: merge new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116832
<Fujitsu> Um?
<Hobbsee> i'd unassign it anyway, then.
<StevenK> ubotu: You suck, mm'kay?
<Fujitsu> debian bug 1234
<ubotu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
<StevenK> Bwhaha
<Fujitsu> Debian bug 1234
<ubotu> Bug 1234 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 is private
<crimsun> Debian 1234
<Fujitsu> It /is/ being strange this evening.
<Fujitsu> Debian #1234
<Hobbsee> ubotu's dying today
<joejaxx> dholbach: what do you think about bug #4978 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 4978 in gthumb "Difficult menu item name" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4978
<dholbach> looking in a bit
<dholbach> joejaxx: what about the bug?
<dholbach> joejaxx: I've forwarded it upstream, if you feel strongly about it, you should ask on the upstream bug for another comment
<joejaxx> dholbach: oh ok
<dholbach> ok cool
<joejaxx> dholbach: so we wait for upstream for this bug?
<dholbach> might be a good idea to prod him again on the upstream bug
<joejaxx> ok
<alfredoj69> sorry for asking this but at what time is the meeting?
<StevenK> The meeting is over, and has been for 30 minutes.
<alfredoj69> oh, interesting
<afflux> anyone who has some merges left that I could try? I've nothing to do at the moment :)
* persia encourages someone to update the /topic
* Hobbsee pokes persia, and notes that it's not +t
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:StevenK] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
* persia doesn't remember enough about IRC to do anything about it
<persia> StevenK: Thank you.
<Hobbsee> persia: /topic foo
<persia> Hobbsee: I see.  I like the current topic, but maybe next time :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> !responses
* persia adds MOTU/GettingStarted to the list of pages in need of revision
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: i am working on a lynx bug now :P
<Hobbsee> :)
<joejaxx> bug #18639
<joejaxx> grrr
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
<geser> afflux: I could offer you wordpress
<joejaxx> Malone bug 18639 in lynx "lynx doesn't have the default Ubuntu homepage" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/18639
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 18639 in lynx "lynx doesn't have the default Ubuntu homepage" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/18639
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> ubotu: you are slow :(
<Hobbsee> bot is dying
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hobbsee]  by ChanServ
* Hobbsee pulls strings to get the other bot in here
<persia> afflux: If you like wordpress, there is also an outstanding security issue for dapper/edgy that needs doing.
<afflux> persia: I use it on my server, but I have not that much idea about the coding
<afflux> geser: I'll have a look at it
<fernando> moin all
<joejaxx> Good Morning fernando 
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: http://fluxbuntu.org/bug18639.patch
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: should i poke people after i subscribe to u-u-s?
<Hobbsee> you dont need to
<crimsun> poking is not recommended.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<Hobbsee> it gets turned around in a few days, iirc
<Hobbsee> crimsun: unless you carry a doomstick
<joejaxx> yeah but i do not have a doomstick
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: u-u-s is small enough that you dont need to poke, unlike revu, where it's all very hard to follow
<joejaxx> ahh ok
<joejaxx> i hope someone files a bug report on elinks too
<jussi01> persia: you awake still?
<joejaxx> i would like to fix it there as well
<geser> packages depending on a package from multiverse must also be in multiverse, right?
<persia> jussi01: Yep.
<joejaxx> yeap
<joejaxx> geser: yes
<ucap> I have just read about the mentoring system MOTU has started and I'm interested in becoming a contributor. I only have limited experience (persia might still remember some of my harassing questions while he was kind enough to mentor a bug I was trying to patch). I'm willing to learn but I am not sure I have enough time to a useful contributor.
* geser files than a bug
<crimsun> ucap: any time is valuable.
<crimsun> (says the guy who has no time)
<ucap> okay, so where do I go from here?
<persia> ucap: We'd be glad to have your help.
<jussi01> persia: (or anyone) when you start to package with cdbs, do you use dh_make and change the rules file, or some other way?
<crimsun> jussi01: I don't use dh_make at all.
<persia> ucap: I recommend starting with the bitesize bugs (see the /topic), or mentored bugs.  If you aren't getting anywhere, seek a mentor from the motu-mentoring-reception team.
<persia> jussi01: I just start from scratch.
<crimsun> jussi01: if you're using cdbs, it's pretty straightforward to just start from debian/rules
<jussi01> ok, so you make all control, copyright etc by hand?
<crimsun> well, debian/copyright normally _has_ to be made by hand
<persia> jussi01: Generally.  Control is the hardest, but copyright should be done by hand anyway.
<alfredoj69> In my case, started working on trying to create a package. is it that a good idea?
<crimsun> alfredoj69: all roads lead to rome.
<jussi01> ok. great. got to keep running, talk in a while
<jussi01> :D
<crimsun> alfredoj69: i.e., yes, that's fine. Everyone starts somewhere.
<alfredoj69> but maybe that is a more difficult path for somebody new
<crimsun> it's all going to be a bit overwhelming initially
<crimsun> no way around that
<crimsun> we're here to guide you around the potholes
<alfredoj69> there should be like guideline which a new person should follow
<ucap> persia: okay, before getting a mentor assigned I should try to get on on my own?
<crimsun> alfredoj69: it's being addressed
<crimsun> alfredoj69: in the meantime, you can begin with the bitesize-tagged bugs in Launchpad
<persia> ucap: It depends.  If you're comfortable making changes and asking here for pointers to documentation, then starting on your own is best.  If you're having trouble, asking for a mentor may help.
<ucap> persia: alright, I will have a go and see how far I get ;-)
<joejaxx> ;)
<persia> ucap: Good luck, and ask here if you get stuck.
<ucap> I (most definitely) will!
<alfredoj69>  crimsun, what is the linkf for Launchpad?
<joejaxx> alfredoj69: http://tinyurl.com/2us2se
<joejaxx> :)
<afflux> persia: the new wordpress version would be 2.2-1ubuntu1, the security vulnerabilities I found at launchpad are for 2.1.3 or lower... Did you talk about them or some different?
<persia> afflux: Exactly them.  For feisty and (as soon as your merge is complete) gutsy, there are no issues.  Those would be for dapper and edgy.
<alfredoj69> joejaxx, thank you
<joejaxx> alfredoj69: you are most welcome
<afflux> persia: ah, I see. Should I provide a patch for the dapper/edgy packages or would we rather upload the feisty or gutsy package to dapper/edgy?
<persia> afflux: If you have the time and the interest, separate targeted patches for dapper and edgy would be best.
<afflux> persia: okay, I'll try.
<persia> afflux: Thanks a lot.  The security team will really appreciate that.
<DaveMorris> I've written a program as part of my job in Brighton Uni (UK).  Is it worth putting it towards you guys to go in universe although it requires special hardware of around 8K or should I just stick it on a site on its own?
<persia> DaveMorris: Does it depend on many libraries, or is it mostly independent.  If the former, it may be worth filing a bug and adding the needs-packaging tag, to see if anyone wants to package it.  If the latter, you're better off hosting it separately.
<DaveMorris> its the latter
<DaveMorris> I've also created a userspace usb driver for it, is it worth adding that?
<persia> DaveMorris: The same rules apply.  If it is accepted here, and has no users, it might get old, but if there are users and a maintainer, it will get recompiled against current libraries.
<crimsun> (getting it into Debian first is preferred)
<DaveMorris> persia: Thats a good rule of thumb I'll remember
<crimsun> so-  any Hopefuls around who want to walk through a straightforward fakesync?
<jussi01> crimsun: me!
<crimsun> jussi01: ok, wget http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh and create a scratch directory
<crimsun> brb, phone.
<StevenK> crimsun: Can I say me? :-P
<alfredoj69> I am here too
<persia> StevenK: You're Hopeless.  You don't get walkthroughs :)
<StevenK> Awww.
<StevenK> persia: Shall I leave python-qt4 to you to fix? :-P
<persia> StevenK: That would make me hopeless,
* StevenK is just trying to share the hopelessness around.
<Lutin> hi there
<joejaxx> hello Lutin :)
<crimsun> jussi01: ok, after you've CWD into the scratch dir, use sh ../grab-merge.sh fluidsynth-dssi
<Lutin> heya joejaxx . how're you doing ?
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: some background is needed. The reason it's called a fakesync is that we can use the Debian packaging instead of the existing Ubuntu one, but we can't request a sync from Debian because the orig.tar.gzs differ.
<jussi01> ok
<DktrKranz> how to proceed with a fake-sync?
<alfredoj69> ok
<crimsun> DktrKranz: have you grabbed fluidsynth-dssi using DaD's grab-merge.sh ?
<DktrKranz> just a second, I'll do
<joejaxx> Lutin: i am doing well
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: for the sake of completeness, I'll walk you through checking the orig.tar.gzs
<joejaxx> Lutin: for some reason today i have an urge to fix bugs
<Lutin> joejaxx: :)
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: ``grep orig *.dsc'' will show you the different md5sums for the tarballs
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: note that the orig.tar.gz that DaD's grab-merge.sh downloaded is 150e60d3e.. (the Ubuntu one)
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: we'll first extract this Ubuntu orig.tar.gz, then apply the Debian diff against it.
<crimsun> [tar xf fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1.orig.tar.gz && cd fluidsynth-dssi-0.9.1.orig && zcat ../fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-3.diff.gz|patch -p1 --dry-run] 
<crimsun> that last series of commands will complete successfully, which means we should actually apply the diff
<crimsun> [zcat ../fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-3.diff.gz|patch -p1] 
<crimsun> the next step is to make debian/rules executable
<crimsun> [chmod +x debian/rules] 
<crimsun> next, we add a new Ubuntu changelog entry. Because it's a fakesync, the version will use build1, not ubuntu1, as a suffix.
<crimsun> [dch -v0.9.1-3build1 -Dgutsy] 
<crimsun> persia just made a good point that this isn't a fakesync; I'll discuss that briefly now.
<crimsun> 1) Ubuntu's source package provides a binary package called dssi-plugin-fluidsynth
<crimsun> contrast with Debian's source package that provides a binary package called fluidsynth-dssi
<crimsun> 2) this means in our updated Ubuntu package, we need to edit debian/control to use Debian's binary package name
<crimsun> this also means that we need to add Conflicts and Replaces entries for the older Ubuntu binary package name
<crimsun> so-  back to our debian/changelog. Modify the version in the entry to reflect an Ubuntu change: 0.9.1-3build1 -> 0.9.1-3ubuntu1
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: still following?
<alfredoj69> I a mtaking notes
<DktrKranz> yep
<crimsun> ok, because it's now a merge, we'll use the standard debian/changelog template for a merge:
<crimsun>   * Merge from Debian unstable, remaining Ubuntu changes:
<crimsun>     - debian/control: Conflicts/Replaces dssi-plugin-fluidsynth.
<crimsun> after that modification, we need to add in the original changelog entry at the bottom
<crimsun> (you can grab that from `aptitude changelog dssi-plugin-fluidsynth', or you can inspect the fluidsynth-dssi_0.9.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<crimsun> )
<leonel> what time was the motu meeting for clamav ?
<leonel> sorry 
<leonel> first :
<crimsun> 2,5 hours ago
<leonel> Hello Motus !  good morning ..
<leonel> crimsun: that's bad ...
<crimsun> ok, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22433/ lists the merged debian/changelog
<crimsun> now we regenerate the merged source package  [debuild -S -v0.9.1-0ubuntu1] 
<crimsun> I omitted DebianMaintainerField, so let's go over that change.
<crimsun> All source packages from Debian that have Ubuntu changes need to adhere to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<crimsun> so, edit debian/control and make those changes
<crimsun> (be sure to note it in debian/changelog, too)
<crimsun> now, assuming you've generated the new merged source package, you need to pbuild it and test it
<leonel> i'm just arriving  I needed to be in ubuntu-meeting    this is  bad .
<crimsun> (beyond this scope)
<leonel> crimsun: can't find the log  ..
<crimsun> leonel: I believe Hobbsee is working on that.
<Hobbsee> !logs
<ubotwo> Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
<Hobbsee> leonel: ^
<crimsun> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html  to be precise.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: i think i said i'd do the meeting thing for next time.  but i'll probably do the minutes too
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok
<crimsun> jussi01: / alfredoj69: / DktrKranz: afterward you should follow the Contributor portion of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<DktrKranz> which versions should be used to generate debdiff, in this case?
<persia> Note to those taking notes on the lesson - expect updated information on requesting sponsorship of uploads this weekend. 
<crimsun> DktrKranz: existing Ubuntu and new merged Ubuntu versions.
<DktrKranz> so, 0.9.1-0ubuntu1 and 0.9.1-3ubuntu1 ?
<crimsun> yep.
<DktrKranz> good
<DktrKranz> how would you manage upload of it?
<crimsun> DktrKranz: from the sponsor side, or..?
<DktrKranz> I refer to debuild options
<persia> Does anyone know where I can ask about the status of the authentication database for the wiki?
<Hobbsee> persia: try #launchpad maybe
<DktrKranz> this case tarballs were not the same
<Hobbsee> persia: as it's using launchpad to do logins, etc
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah, if the wiki uses launchpad, I don't need to ask.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> launchpad is down atm
<DktrKranz> should you prepare a -S -sa upload?
<crimsun> DktrKranz: no, we'll use the existing Ubuntu orig.tar.gz, so no -sa
<crimsun> DktrKranz: debuild -S -v0.9.1-0ubuntu1
<DktrKranz> is -sa used in other situations?
<persia> DktrKranz: The general rule is to only use -sa when you are looking at a new upstream version.
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks
<poningru_> halp
<poningru_> package mayavi
<poningru_> requires python 2.4 and throws error on that
<poningru_> since we have python 2.5
<poningru_> at work so cant file bug
<poningru_> bbl
<persia> poningru: Congratulations.  You've found a target for a fix!
* persia is too slow.
<leonel> Hobbsee: crimsun thanks 
<alfredoj69> thank you crimsun, have good weekend everybody
<afflux> persia: I think I did the wordpress CVEs for dapper. Would you like to review my debdiff?
<persia> afflux: I'd be happy to take a look.  LP is down (for me) right now.  If it's small could you pastebin it (somewhere other than paste.ubuntu-nl.org), and if it's large, could you put it somewhere else for me to find?
<afflux> persia: http://paste.stgraber.org/1131
<joejaxx> anyone notice LP's css is broken?
<persia> joejaxx: If only the CSS is broken for you, you're doing better than I.  There's been a code release recently, and LP is probably coming back up still.  Reload in a few minutes.
<joejaxx> persia: ah ok
<afflux> persia: I've fixed only 3 vulns since the fourth was in a file (wp-includes/general-template.php) that doesn't seem to exist.
<persia> afflux: That's fine.
<afflux> ah, distribution should be dapper-security, shouldn't it?
<persia> afflux: Probably.  You'll eventually want to hunt a member of the security team for a proper review.
<afflux> persia: okay. should I just put the debdiff on launchpad in bug 111620 (where the four vulns were mentioned) and wait for them to look at it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111620 in wordpress "Remote Exploits: multiple vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111620
<persia> Hey.  Launchpad :)   Yay!  Yes, but if you wait until my review is complete, you'll have to upload one less revision of the patch :)
<afflux> ah, okay :D
<persia> afflux: http://paste.stgraber.org/1132
<afflux> k, thx
<leonel> after reading  about  clamav  on  ubuntu-meeting log   was like I was  represented  ...  :)
<afflux> persia: got to disturb you again :) what do you mean by "When uploading, please identify the source of the patch"? Where? In the changelog? In the patched file? And how? I got the changes from the fixed upstream, so should I just add that?
<persia> afflux: I'm not an expert for security uploads, but I'd say something like "backported patch from 2.1.8" (or whatever), just to help the really paranoid trust you.
<joejaxx> paranoid == secure :P
<afflux> persia: okay, I'll add it to the changelog then
<crimsun> then you need to state that you "extracted from upstream changes"
<crimsun> e.g.,
<crimsun> +  * SECURITY UPDATE: Denial of service (daemon crash).
<crimsun> +  * 10_fix_DoS_vulns.dpatch: extracted from upstream changes
<crimsun> +    (CVE-2007-1804)
<afflux> okay, thanks crimsun and persia 
<crimsun> afflux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures , but be aware that it's outdated.
<persia> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> afflux: e.g., security-review@ no longer exists
<joejaxx> crimsun: if there is a numbering system just increment the last patch number? (excluding 9{1-9}'s)
<joejaxx> crimsun: for dpatch
<crimsun> joejaxx: follow the source package's existing scheme
<crimsun> but essentially, yes.
<joejaxx> ok
<persia> Will MoM keep running until release, or does it stop during latter freeze periods?
<crimsun> stops after DebianImportFreeze
<persia> PIty that.  It'd be nice to have the recommended patches available for cherrypicking.  I'll draft a manual mechanism.
<crimsun> DaD could be used
<persia> crimsun: Hmmm..  Good idea.  Thanks.
<luisbg> hello all
<crimsun> hi.
<luisbg> hey crimsun =)
<luisbg> hey joejaxx !
<joejaxx> hello luisbg :)
<luisbg> how is all joe?
<joejaxx> luisbg: it is well :)
<luisbg> joejaxx, great
<joejaxx> luisbg: just doing some motuhopeship work :)
<luisbg> joejaxx, cool, we are all becoming motus soon
<joejaxx> luisbg: well me probably longer :P
<luisbg> damn... this month is going to be crazy for me... too much collegue work
<luisbg> after that
<luisbg> into the motu path
<luisbg> joejaxx, longer because you do a zillion things at the same time?
<joejaxx> luisbg: no not that
<joejaxx> luisbg: i will not go for motuship until i feel confident enough in myself to uploading packages
<joejaxx> right now i have to go through a sponsor which means someone is checking them
<luisbg> joejaxx, I understand
<joejaxx> even though they may be correct i still like people checking them :)
<luisbg> just to make sure you haven't screwed up
<luisbg> gotta go have lunch
<luisbg> ciao all!
<joejaxx> luisbg: :)
<joejaxx> great time to build kdebindings :P
<joejaxx> this might sound like a weird question
<joejaxx> but is there a ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<joejaxx> ie who does uploads for packages in main that people submit debdiffs for?
<crimsun> joejaxx: yes, there is.
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> i wonder how long it is going to take to build this package
<joejaxx> as it create an assortment of binary packages
<geser> joejaxx: the last kdebindings build took ca. 45 minutes on the Ubuntu buildds
<joejaxx> interesting
<joejaxx> geser: thanks
<jekil> hello
<joejaxx> hello
<jekil> someone can review, please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
<joejaxx> if a package has a version number like: package-1234build1 and i am going to make a ubuntu modification does the build1 stay and turn into build1ubuntu1?
<persia> joejaxx: No.  Just 1234ubuntu1.
<joejaxx> persia: ok thanks
<persia> joejaxx: The XbuildY versions usually don't have Ubuntu maintainers, so be sure to adjust that.
<joejaxx> yeap i changed that :)
<joejaxx> j-dizzle: :P hello
<j-dizzle> hey joejaxx 
* j-dizzle watches his battery life estimate peak over 5 hrs
<j-dizzle> I should try a tickless kernel on this machine
<joejaxx> nice 
<joejaxx> just got four bugs done
<joejaxx> :)
<persia> joejaxx: Congratulations!  Only 30448 to go!
<joejaxx> persia: haha
<joejaxx> :P
<joejaxx> jdong and it quit messages haha
<persia> joejaxx: No, really.  You've just covered more than 1/100 of a percent of the bugs.  Given the numbers I've heard for Ubuntu users, that means that if all bugs are equal, you've made 800 people happy.
<joejaxx> his*
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<astro73_> I have code, how do I turn that into a package for ubuntu?
<persia> astro73_: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips might help.
<astro73_> k, thanx
<jekil> if i upload a new revision of a package to revu, i lost the advocates point of previous revision?
<jussi01> jekil: yes
<persia> jekil: Yep.  There's no easy way to tell you didn't put sneaky code in that breaks the system.  Just ask the previous advocate to advocate again, if you can catch them.
<jekil> persia: ok, thansk
<jekil> persia: i upload a new package, following your comments http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5264
* persia is hoist by persia's own petard :)
<persia> jekil: I'm drafting a document right now.  Would you mind if I checked that in an hour or so?
<jekil> persia: yeah, no problem, thank you a lot
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> evince has a maintainer line of Maintainer: Ubuntu Desktop Team <ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com>
<tsmithe> hmm
<joejaxx> should that me changed as well?
<joejaxx> be*
<joejaxx> to the MOTU one? or are certain packages special
<persia> joejaxx: No, anything@ubuntu.com is acceptable.  When it's not standard, that means that a specific team has elected to take specific responsibility for the package.
* persia is apparently too specific
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> so i leave it
<joejaxx> that is weird
<joejaxx> this package has a control.in
<azeem> that's not uncommon
<persia> joejaxx: That means that the debian/control file is built automatically.  Sometimes this happens at build time, and sometimes only at the request of the maintainer.  If you need to change it, change both control.in and control.
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> persia: how should it be documented in the changelog?
<joejaxx> just debian/control ?
<joejaxx> or both files
<persia> joejaxx: What type of change are you making?
<joejaxx> persia: just adding a package to suggests
<joejaxx> ah
<joejaxx> nevermind
<joejaxx> they only put control.in
<persia> joejaxx: :)
<joejaxx> persia: this will be number 7
<mocker> Hello.
<joejaxx> hello
<persia> joejaxx: :)
<dsas> When merging, does it need to be noted that the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field differs from the debian package? 
<persia> dsas: Yes.
<dsas> persia: ok, thanks :)
<persia> dsas: If it was done previously, include it in "Retained Changes".  If you are doing it for the first time, it get's a new *.
<dsas> persia: "retained changes"? Is that the same as Remaining Changes or am I reading incomplete docs?
<persia> dsas: Sorry.  "Remaining Changes" is probably correct.
<dsas> Does Ubuntu still use /var/www over /srv/www ? (Debian uses the latter)
<nixternal> dsas: yes
<persia> If anyone (including Contributors) has time, I'd appreciate a any comments anyone might have on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
* nixternal looks
<joejaxx> dsas: /var/www
<dsas> Cool, just checking. Thanks guys.
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody got any bright ideas about where/how to get a semi-official repo?
<persia> LaserJock: How semi-official?
<LaserJock> like, for me :-)
<LaserJock> I'm semi-official aren't I ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Like a PPA?
<LaserJock> yes, like PPA
<nixternal> persia: looks good, but I think for some new users, there might need to be a little more explanation of what some of the commands do..otherwise it looks good
<LaserJock> but it'd be nice if it was something I could do this week and not wait until PPA lands
<persia> LaserJock: For an "official" one, I think we have to wait.  Do you have a host on the internet someone to which you can upload content?
<nixternal> I am in the PPA
<persia> nixternal: Share.
<nixternal> Poker Players Alliance
<nixternal> been a member for a long long time
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> what is this PPA you are referring to?
<LaserJock> persia: well, I don't really have much of a host for this size
<LaserJock> nixternal: Personal Package Archives
<nixternal> rock on
<persia> nixternal: I'm hoping that people will read the docs, join this channel, or speak with their mentor about that (plus `man foo` is good practice).
<nixternal> persia: I agree, but you will be getting a ton of users who have never seen the command line (possibly)
<nixternal> I shouldn't say a ton, next you need to blog about it, then you will get a ton
<persia> nixternal: I don't want a ton.  Only interested parties need apply.
<LaserJock> persia: which doc? MOTU wiki stuff?
<nixternal> hehe
<persia> LaserJock: Yep.  The MOTU/Contributing doc I just wrote.
<nixternal> I would like to read the full specification for PPH, but ummm..I am not a Canonical employee ;)
<nixternal> heh, PPH
<nixternal> argh...PPA
<persia> nixternal: As I understand it, there will be an additional archive into which individuals belonging to the correct LP teams will be able to upload content for autobuild and user download.
<nixternal> nice
<nixternal> kind of like what I do here at home, but instead have access to all of the architectures instead of just i386 and amd64
<LaserJock> actually
<LaserJock> PPA will only be i386
<LaserJock> perhaps amd64 but that'll be all, for now
* persia hopes for at least also amd64
<nixternal> so really, it is no different than saying John Doe creating a package and uploading it to *-apps.org for everyone to download?
<LaserJock> depends on how well Xen works on amd64
<nixternal> Xen works great from what I seen at the Red Hat offices recently
<LaserJock> well, the goal is that each person and team on launchpad can have their own repo
<persia> nixternal: roughly, although it solves the use case for LaserJock, who doesn't have a good host for upload today.
<nixternal> ya, same here
<LaserJock> so like ~revu can hold the repo for stuff on REVU
<LaserJock> and it has access restrictions, etc.
<nixternal> persia: thanks for putting it that way...makes much more since now
<LaserJock> all in Launchpad
* persia thinks a ~revu PPA is asking for trouble.
<nixternal> hehe, you think?
<LaserJock> that's actually one of the big use-cases for PPA
<LaserJock> in the end it's supposed to be anybody with a LP account
<LaserJock> but it sounds like they aren't going to make it that wild to start with ;-)
<nixternal> well, with revu it would be good so that you can have multiple users test your package on their system
<persia> LaserJock: Really?  Why?  Doesn't that invite more random crack?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> the point being
<LaserJock> upstreams can have packages
<LaserJock> contributors can have packages
<nixternal> great way to work out bugs you may not be able to pick up..just let the user know that the packages are unsupported and are used only for testing purposes or such
<LaserJock> it's tons and tons of great crack
<nixternal> haha
<persia> I see.  Upstream packages are a big missing feature in LP.  That will be very good.
<LaserJock> then we get to pick out the good stuff
<nixternal> making MOTU work a little easier
<nixternal> well at least the "amount" of work
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> we'll see
<nixternal> I am going to get some Debian training tomorrow. I am meeting up with a DD who has been packaging since 95 for Debian..plus he is going to sign my key :)
<persia> My worry is that john marketeer will advertise their crack as "From the Ubuntu Servers" on a blog or widely visited forum, and we'll get the bugs.
<LaserJock> it should be fairly similar to the the Novell/SUSE build service thingy
<nixternal> ahhh, ya I know all about that one LaserJock ;p
<LaserJock> persia: well, the current situation isn't a ton different
<LaserJock> we have tons and tons of 3rd party repo
<LaserJock> it could possibly help us in that it might be easier to track
<persia> LaserJock: I suppose you're right, but the URLs are rather different, which might help.
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm just not sure what to expect
<LaserJock> we'll just have to try it
<LaserJock> for me personally I think it'd be great
<persia> It was my big motivation for my application.
<nixternal> whatever happened with the sources thing? you know where all of the sources went into a repo and you hacked from it which would in turn build out?
<nixternal> I forgot what it was called already
<persia> nixternal: It has been indefinitely postponed.
<nixternal> heh, is that similar to the way debian does it, it isn't the source, just the debian/ directories with branches, tags, and trunk?
<persia> nixternal: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-source-packages
<nixternal> ya that is it
<persia> nixternal: It went farther than that.  VCS imports of upstream branches.
<nixternal> ya, that would be cool
<persia> nixternal: You lose the md5 check, so it's a lot harder to identify local changes, or that the original source is what you thought it was.
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> _o/
<LaserJock> \o_
<LaserJock> \o/
<persia> Calisthenics?
<LaserJock> that's my PPA dance
<LaserJock> we'll test it out with 700MB worth of TeX love ;-)
<persia> heh
* LaserJock goes to lunch
<LaserJock> bbiab
<leonel> !paste
<ubotwo> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
* jussi01 decides its a good time to bug the motu's to look at his package again.... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5270 (mnemosyne) if someones got time :D
<joejaxx> jussi01: :P
<joejaxx> jussi01: how are you?
<jussi01> joejaxx: Im good
<jussi01> and you?
<joejaxx> i am doing well
* persia looks
<jussi01> thanks persia
<\sh> re
<nixternal> er
<\sh> does anybody use opie for authentication?
<nixternal> heh, someone was just talking about that this past week in here
<\sh> especially on dapper...and tried to use opiepasswd -f ?
<persia> It's broken.
<\sh> this tool doesn't ask for a passphrase when started remotely...
<\sh> feisties NMU uploads from debian but does
<\sh> possible to fix it?
<persia> Specifically, there are insufficient permissions to make it work properly, but if this is fixed by setting it suid, there is a way that any user may access any other users account.
<\sh> well, what's the difference between feisty and dapper? on feisty it works without any problems
<persia> Only by changing the code to run suid safe, and check the UID of the calling user to make sure that it is not used to access a different keystore.
<\sh> but this is not the problem right now, with different behaviours
<\sh> argl...this tool is broken like hell
<persia> Odd.  Two weeks ago when the topic came up, I was able to replicate bug 61335 in feisty and dapper.  What problem are you having again?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61335 in opie "opieinfo isn't setuid, whilst opiepasswd is" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61335
<\sh> opiepasswd -f gives you no passphrase dialog, but opiepasswd -c -f is
<persia> RIght.  Are you running opiepasswd -f in a terminal emulator, or on console?
<\sh> persia, yepp...-f should just run further
<joejaxx> anyone here experienced with the evince package?
<\sh> opiepasswd -c -f works as expected
<persia> \sh: I think that opiepasswd -f should work fine on a console, but that you'd need opiepasswd -c -f if you're not on a console (at least from my reading of the manpage).
<\sh> yepp
<persia> But -f fails on a console?
<\sh> nope...but doesn't give you the possibility to enter a passphrase
<persia> Right.  I failed to define "fails" previously.  Hrm.  Let me look.
<\sh> but everything else is working
<\sh> checking 61335 bug
<persia> It's annoying, but doesn't interfere with operations as much as this new one.
<\sh> hmmm..reporter rejected it ;)
<persia> Hmmm.  libopie/insecure.c is more opaque than I expected, but I believe it to be the source of the problem.
<persia> \sh: nixternal and I convinced the reporter that it was better off left along (fixing it causes a big security hole).
<persia> s/along/alone/
<persia> ls
<\sh> persia, what I don't understand is, when you invoke opiepasswd the first time, you have to use -c (when you are on the console), while being remote just do an opiepasswd -f without passphrase?
<persia> \sh: My understanding is that the first time you used it you used a real passphrase, and when using it remotely, you needed to use the OTP.  If opiepasswd -f works remotely, without requireing the OTP, opie is pointlessly broken.
<\sh> persia, well, without the initial passphrase it should be useless too ;)
<\sh> btw... opieinfo would be a bit more secure, checking only the info for the calling user
<\sh> just because everyone can query now the sequence and challenge from other users..
<persia> \sh:Right.  But the security model forces the initial passwd from a "safe" location.  libopie/insecure.c does it's best to ensure that the communication cannot be evesdropped upon, which means that the passphrase can remain static, and the passwords are all one-time.  You can force it be secure with -c -f .  WIth -f (and no -c), you can't enter the passphrase, because I could snoop, and collect the passphrase, and then spoof opie into giving me a
<\sh> how hard would it be for a man in the middle to spy out my ssh session?
<\sh> .oO(i wonder how hard it would be to combine OTP with ldap auth)
<persia> \sh:About 250,000 USD hard.  Generally not worth it.
<\sh> ok something for the nsa...but when I'm being spied by the nsa, I'm worth more then 250k USD ;)
<persia> \sh: Right.  Opie is intended to support that type of user (but it's broken).
<\sh> persia, any free system available which is doing OTPs securely and with not costing much..I don't want to rely on tokens, usb-tokens with certs etc. I just want to have something easy for the plain user in an office..but not with changing passwords every week for them
<persia> \sh: If you're just doing something to prevent the annoyance of passwd rotation, either use -c -f, or use opieinfo as root to generate the user keys for them (with passphrase parsed from /dev/random).
<persia> In other words, you don't really need to be that secure.
<persia> The last time I used an S/Key implementation, the administrator gave me a piece of paper, and I was responsible for knowing which number password I was on.  When I was about to run out of passwords, the admin gave me another piece of paper.
<\sh> persia, actually, right now I'm responsible for giving out ldap accounts and first time passwords...the user doesn't have the possibility to change the password itself, because we want to reduce the risk of having the users cats name or the birthdate of his girlfriend in there
<persia> \sh:Can you distribute paper safely, or are you remote?
<\sh> persia, means, opie e.g. is starting from 499 downto 1
<\sh> persia, paper is not a problem :)
<persia> \sh:I advise only giving users about 50 passwords at a time.  It's a little more hassle, but they'll lose the paper after a couple months anyway.
<persia> \sh: You can generate the list of their upcoming passwords with opiekey -n 42 `opieinfo $user`
<\sh> persia, and is it possible to combine this opie stuff with ldap-auth ? right now, we are authorizing users against ldap ... when I can combine it somehow, that would be the right solution
<persia> I don't know.  I've never configured LDAP auth (except by accident for clients with 100% Windows environments).
<\sh> the problem is imho the opiekeys file
<\sh> on the system
<persia> Could you adjust opie to use a special odd location for opiekeys, and have all the hosts sshfs mount that location?
<persia> (or shfs if you prefer)
* jussi01 bugs persia... (but not too much) :D
<persia> jussi01: It compiled fine.  I'm digging through the diff (but got distracted - I like security)
<jussi01> hehe, fair enough, didnt want to annoy you too much :d
<\sh> ./debian/changelog:  * /etc/opiekeys is mode 600 for possible security reasons. 
<\sh> but
<\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 root sthe 136 2007-05-25 22:20 /etc/opiekeys
<persia> It's broken :)
<joejaxx> wow
<\sh> why is it gid?
<\sh> damn
<\sh> damn
<\sh> dappers version is broken
<\sh> feisties is correct
<\sh> 600 
<persia> jussi01: Commented.  Almost there.  I could only find little problems :)
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> why is /etc/opiekeys not set correctly...on dapper...when I set it manually...it works correctly
<persia> \sh: SRU?
<\sh> persia, the package is correct...the permission in the deb package are 600 and root:root...I'll try to find out what triggered the change from 600 to 644 and from root:root to root:sthe
<persia> Do you have a g+s somewhere?
<\sh> g+s?
<persia> chmod g+s is how I make directories sgid, which autosets group for children.  I'm not sure about the 644.
<\sh> nope
<imbrandon> oh wow, i LOVE my work, i just got this im my email ....
<imbrandon> quote ( this is from the owner of the company ) " .... I have reserved the entire VIP balcony at the Legends 14 theater on July 3 for  the  pre-release showing of Transformers.  We have 84 seats reserved, so guests will be welcome.  All attendees must be 21 years of  age.  The VIP Balcony is a full service bar and theater with a lounge to socialize before the movie .... "
* imbrandon dances
<joejaxx> lol
* LaserJock stabs imbrandon with a spoon
<imbrandon> hehe
<LaserJock> my boss sends me an email that says "Where the freakin' data?" ;-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :P
<imbrandon> man that made my day
<joejaxx> (LP: #BUGNUM) is required right?
<LaserJock> it's not required, but it's good practice
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> one of these day doing LP: #number will actually close the bug automatically
<joejaxx> because i left it out on the kdebindings one by accident :(
<\sh> persia, hmmm..strange..I redid all the steps I made in the beginning...think I've to test it on a new dapper install on thursday in the office
<\sh> persia, and you can set the default keyfile location during build time 
<persia> \sh: It worked normally on reinstall / reconfigure, or broken in the same way?
<persia> \sh:You might want to rebuild for your LDAP interaction, but I'm not sure that's something for the archives.  A runtime switch on the other hand...
<\sh> persia, right now, I didn't make a reinstall...will do it on tuesday..
<\sh> persia, problem with ldap+pam
<joejaxx> LaserJock: and kdebindings takes an hour to build :P
<\sh> is, that ldap is serving as well the password
<persia> \sh: Good luck.  I've never used opie, but I'm starting to learn a lot about it, and wouldn't mind hearing more.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i should probably do it again anyway since it is a component main package
<\sh> persia, if I find a method to push the /etc/opiekey file  somewhere in ldap...
<persia> \sh:Sounds like you'll either have to have LDAP query opie for the password, or have LDAP only provide the username.  There's a PAM S/Key out there, which might help with integration.
<\sh> persia, I'll read a bit more first...if it's possible
<persia> \sh: It'd be a coup if you could.  Solves the whole password on the sticky on the monitor problem for everyone :)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: being thorough is usually a good idea
<\sh> argl...what is that?
<\sh> sasl-host       kerberos.mydomain.de
<\sh> sasl-realm      MYDOMAIN.DE
<\sh> #sasl-secprops  none
<\sh> srvtab          /etc/openldap/krb5.keytab
<\sh> ...
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/05/25/and-im-linux/
<imbrandon> drive by blog spamming
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> IRC is worse than RSS at cluttering my browser cache.
<imbrandon> lol
<\sh> gnarf...debootstrap via utms 384kBit/s connection is not a good idea
<persia> \sh: ouch !
<\sh> looks like that I will switch to vpn first, to get my hands on a fast machine with 10gbit/s 
<\sh> brb
<Seveas> tepsipakki, pong
<persia> Seveas: Is there by any chance an IP filter on paste.ubuntu-nl.org?  It oddly doesn't work for me unless I use an anonymous proxy.
<Seveas> persia, not that I know of. just a javascript based antispam thing
<persia> Seveas: Is that just the one to block posting, or does it also block browsing?
<Seveas> persia, only posting
<persia> Seveas: Hmmm.  Thanks.
<astro73_> is there an equivelent of dh_installinit for upstart?
<jikanter> does someone have a working pbuilder config for feisty, sid, dapper, and gutsy they would be willing to share? mine seems to fail for feisty, but the others seem to work
<jikanter> astro73_: I think since upstart is event-driven and backwards compatible, it should work as it is, but don't quote me on that
<astro73_> it's backwards compatible in the sense that you can run sysv scripts with the compatibility files
<jikanter> yeah, I am not sure
<astro73_> dh_installupstart hasn't even made it into google yet
<\sh> re
<joejaxx> has anyone seen the ubuntu homepage?
<imbrandon> joejaxx, WOW
<\sh> fck...this is something for me
<\sh> http://images.businessweek.com/ss/07/05/0524_metrolaptop/index_01.htm
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah that was my reaction as well
<\sh> who is sponsoring this little thing
<joejaxx> shawarma: wow that is nice
<\sh> it's a bit higher then the razr of motorola...awesome little bitchy laptop...
<\sh> and I thought I have one of the slim notebooks ever ;)
<joejaxx> \sh: Ziba Designs apparently
<joejaxx> came up with the design and concept
<xxxxx1> imbrandon, joejaxx: www.dell.com/ubuntu
<imbrandon> xxxxx1, http://www.ubuntu.com/dell :)
<\sh> xxxxx1, sad thing it's only available in US this ubuntu dell thing
<xxxxx1> imbrandon: no, have a dell page too
<xxxxx1> \sh: just for now
<joejaxx> \sh: hopefully it expands to other areas
<xxxxx1> bye people
<\sh> joejaxx, hopefully they will decrease the price....to catch the masses it can only be done with a low price
<joejaxx> \sh: yeap
<joejaxx> \sh: exactly
<astro73_> there's all this documentation dealing with ported-to-debian packages. what about direct-to-debian packages?
<\sh> which documentation?
<astro73_> virtually the entire system seems to assume NIH
<astro73_> at least, all the tools
<persia> astro73_: For Direct to Debian, the documentation is on Debian site, but I'm not finding a good guide.  Basically you file a RFP against WNPP, and retitle to ITP, and coordinate with a DD (Debian likes acronyms).
<astro73_> by "debian", I more ment the package system than the Debian distribution
<tepsipakki> Seveas: sorry, I wanted to ask about falcon.. it seems that a functional version on feisty is still some time off?
<persia> astro73_: Ah.  In that case, there's a separation between "upstream" and "distribution" so that the upstream sources remain suitable for release in other distributions (e.g. Fedora, SuSE, etc.).  In many cases the same people do both, but by separating the distribution can usually safely make integration changes without needing to have a new upstream package, etc.
<astro73_> it also introduces a seeming layer of complexity
<\sh> hmmm?? you mean the split between "upstream" tar balls and distribution specific packages?
<astro73_> something like that
<astro73_> I'm just trying to get something working here
<astro73_> the packaging shouldn't confuse me
<\sh> well, that's something I'm trying since 22 years now :)
<jekil> hello
<joejaxx> hello
<persia> jekil: While you were away, I left a comment.
<jekil> persia: thanks
<joejaxx> that is interesting
<persia> joejaxx: ?
<joejaxx> persia: i need to correct a build dep
<joejaxx> in a package i was building
<persia> joejaxx: OK.  Do you know which you need?
<joejaxx> for some reason
<joejaxx> libkpathsea4-dev | libkpathsea-dev
<joejaxx> i in the build dep list for evince
<joejaxx> the first package does not even exist
<joejaxx> i wonder how that happened
* joejaxx starts over from scratch once again
<persia> joejaxx: I think libkpathsea-dev is a real package now (not virtual) due to the texlive changes.  That's likely the issue.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-26
<joejaxx> persia: someone just did an upload
<joejaxx> :P
* joejaxx starts again
* \sh goes to bed....good night folks
<LaserJock> wahooo for TeX bug triage
<LaserJock> :-)
<astro73_> well, I now have a dh_installupstart
<LaserJock> anybody here know if it's possible to remove a bug tracker?
<persia> LaserJock: My memory from other issues was that it wasn't possible, but that may have changed in the intervening time.
<nixternal> LaserJock: an upstream bug tracker? I did it one time, and I can't remember what I did
<astro73_> it's much easier to create a package when you base it off of another one
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> I could remove the remote watch and have it "manually update"
<LaserJock> then set the bugs to Rejected
<persia> astro73_: Yep.  Collaboration is key.
<fernando> hey all. How is the version of a package (svn trunk)?
<persia> fernando: It should never be svn truck, but rather svnyyyymmdd, so that one may know what code is included.
<astro73_> fernando: or svn(rev) (no parens, replaces "(rev)" with the revision)
<LaserJock> nixternal: I've always thought of Jordan as being a male name and now you and American Idol have dashed and hopes of masculinity
<nixternal> lol
<LaserJock> s/and/any/
<nixternal> well then, to bash the masculinity even more...how about the jordans in the boybands?
<LaserJock> I so wish I could claim Michael Jordan here
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> my brother wanted to name his son Pippin Scotty Johnson
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> heh
<nixternal> my family said they would shun him for such an event
<LaserJock> better than Pimpin Scotty Johnson
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> if I ever have a boy it will be Jordan Mantha Johnson now ;o
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> don't curse him
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> I actually picked my daughters name which I never thought would happen
<nixternal> my wife grew up all over Europe, so she was into all kinds of name
<nixternal> s
<nixternal> none of the girls name I liked, and I was stuck on Jordan
<nixternal> then one day at taco bell feeding her pregrancy, I said how about victoria...and she fell in love
<nixternal> what is a good library package that is small that I can use to help setup a library package build?
<persia> nixternal: Which language?
<nixternal> this libhttp is killing me
<nixternal> C
<persia> nixternal: Also, do you prefer CDBS or debhelper?
<nixternal> I can do either actually.
<persia> Yes, but which do you prefer?  You'll end up maintaining this :)
<nixternal> I don't have a preference
<nixternal> yet..
<nixternal> which ever is better..there ;)
* persia looks for a simple CDBS C library
<persia> I wish I knew grep-dctrl better :)
<persia> nixternal: eel2
<persia> nixternal: Or, even better, imlib2
<nixternal> thank you
<persia> nixternal: Let me know if you have any trouble.  I have an interest in getting libhttp in :)
<persia> nixternal: Also, ignore the source for those: they are examples of simple, minimalist packaging, but not necessarily simple, minimalist libraries.
<nixternal> roger that, thanks again
<bluefoxicy> was there such a thing as 'bash-completion' or am I imaginating things?
<bluefoxicy> I thought there was a thing where you ls -<tab> and got a list of ls options...
<persia> bluefoxicy: As a concept, as a UDS discussion topic, or as a package?
<bluefoxicy> persia:  a package
<persia> bluefoxicy: Yes, there is such a thing, but not every package installs hints.
<bluefoxicy> http://www.caliban.org/bash/index.shtml#completion is this it?
<bluefoxicy> persia:  I can't even find the package in apt.
<persia> bluefoxicy: From what I can tell from the changelog, it is part of bash, and not distributed as a separate package.
<fernando> grab-merge.sh return none? =)
<persia> fernando: it's not always 100% reliable.  Visit snapshot.debian.net
<nixternal> omg, I think I got it
<nixternal> first try at that
<persia> nixternal: See.  CDBS *is* better for libraries :)
<bluefoxicy> persia: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/app-shells/bash-completion/ was probably it, I probably saw it in gentoo
<nixternal> holy smokes it worked
<nixternal> and it isntalled everything where it should...cdbs rocks hardcore!
<persia> bluefoxicy: I seem to remember it from the past, so I'm guessing there was a merge in Ubuntu.
<nixternal> persia: can I put this somewhere so you can take a quick glance at it? I am sure it needs a little tweaking and cleaning
<bluefoxicy> persia:  well, it's not working here... ah, the files are in /etc
<bluefoxicy> but .. hm
<persia> nixternal: #ubuntu-devel was discussing earlier that the distribution of .la files was deprecated - you might want to include the CDBS strip .la rule from eel2
<persia> nixternal: REVU?
<bluefoxicy> persia:  that did it.
* bluefoxicy added a `source /etc/bash_completion` to ~/.profile
<persia> bluefoxicy: I'm glad you found it.
<fernando> while merging with grab-merge.sh i need to change the changelog?
<persia> fernando: Likely, if only to list the remaining Ubuntu changes.
<LaserJock> and replace MoM with a real person in the changelog entry
<fernando> persia: it change version of jadetex_3.13-8 to jadetex_3.13-8ubuntu1
<fernando> then lintian return 
<fernando> white: jadetex source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<fernando> white: jadetex source: source-nmu-has-incorrect-version-number 3.13-8ubuntu1
<persia> fernando: You may safely ignore those two lintian warnings.
<fernando> persia: ok, thanks
<fernando> persia:  i need to upload to revu?
<leonel> Can I have  dapper and edgy running  on bootstrap in Feisty ?
<persia> fernando: No.  Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging just to make sure you've gotten everything.  Then upload the debdiff between the debian package, and your candidate revision to a bug.
<persia> leonel: If you mean in a debootstrap'd chroot, yes.
<persia> (separate chroots: one for dapper, one for edgy)
<leonel> persia: that's it   I have  qemu and  works  fine  but I think is  lighter  use  debootstrap
<LaserJock> does anybody else think it would be worth it to patch lintian to remove the NMU warnings?
<persia> LaserJock: I do, but last time I suggested it, there was a linda marketing session.
<LaserJock> well, as long as we keep Mr. Linda out of it ;-)
<persia> It's just a little change to checks/changelog-file, but in order to meet your criteria, it has to be uploaded without passing through ubuntu-main-sponsors.
<LaserJock> hmm
<persia> leonel: just as a side note, not everything behaves under a chroot the same way it does in qemu.  I wouldn't recommend deleting your qemu configuration.  You might also be interested in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto which generates snapshot chroots on demand, to allow for easy testing without the chance of damaging the root chroot (using `schroot -c dapper` or `schroot -c gutsy` for example).
<LaserJock> persia: why would it be a problem, we're already patching lintian, why not patch it to be quiet about NMU?
<leonel> persia: great   thanks
<persia> LaserJock: I don't see any real problem, you just indicated you wanted to avoid a specific person, who happens to be a member of U-M-S.  While it's being patched, perhaps the version could be checked to complain if it's not in XubuntuY format.
<LaserJock> makes sense
<persia> Maybe also check for XSBC-Original-Maintainer & @ubuntu in Maintainer?  I think this is being checked by dpkg-buildpackage now, but I'm not sure.  Be nice to have an extra warning for people packaging.
* persia can't think of any other Frequently Encountered Problem for new packagers that lintian could check easily.
<TheMuso> persia: dpkg-buildpackage checks for maintainer as an ubuntu.com address.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks for the confirmation.
* StevenK appears.
<persia> StevenK: Good morning.
<fernando> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//usr/share/mime-info/': No such file or directory
<fernando> data/Makefile:# should be replaced by following the new shared-mime-info spec. ?
<nixternal> persia: http://www.nixternal.com/pkg/etch/libhttp/libhttp_1.1-1.dsc
<nixternal> sorry I didn't get back sooner...was eatin' and watchin' some tv
<fernando> bye all
<nixternal> brb..need to do some dishes ;)
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> morning all
<joejaxx> Good Morning Hobbsee 
<joejaxx> :)
<Hobbsee> heya joejaxx!
* joejaxx is trying to figure out why evince will not build :\
<joejaxx> i think it is becauseof gutsy instability
<Hobbsee> heh
<joejaxx> because of*
<astro73_> here's an odd question
<astro73_> how do I host my own packages?
<LaserJock> you make a repo
<astro73_> tutorial? instructions? package?
<LaserJock> or you can just dump the files in some web server
<astro73_> that works, too
<LaserJock> well, how many packages and do you want them apt-getable
<astro73_> I have 2 packages so far
<astro73_> one of which is a build dep of the other
<astro73_> at this point, I don't mind a lack of apt-get
<astro73_> I still need to write half the application
<LaserJock> then sure, just dump them on some web server
<astro73_> good thing I have one
<LaserJock> if you want them apt-getable then I'd use apt-ftparchive
<LaserJock> which is in the apt-utils package if you don't already have it
<astro73_> k
<chillywilly> hi
<astro73_> my first packages are up! http://www.astro73.com/download/deb/
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: how do i know when packages have entered the archive once again?
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: You can look at archive.ubuntu.com.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: once again?
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: well yes but i thought there was a more precise way
<Fujitsu> Hah, no.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: so, it seems there might be an interesting TeX project
<Fujitsu> What's more precise than checking if it is actually in the archive?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Where?
<joejaxx> do packages appear on gutsy-changes when they are uploaded or when they are built?
<Fujitsu> The former.
<joejaxx> ok
<Fujitsu> Well, when they are accepted.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I'm working with upstream and another guy on doing a TeXLive backports repo
<Fujitsu> Sounds nasty...
<nixternal> hrmm...any DDs here to look at a library package for sponsorship :)
<Fujitsu> How well does it backport?
<nixternal> persia: ^^ :)
<LaserJock> the guy has got Edgy ok
<LaserJock> Feisty shouldn't be a problem
<joejaxx> persia is dd? i did not know that
<LaserJock> but sounds like Dapper was a beast so I think we won't bother
<Fujitsu> I wouldn't.
<nixternal> joejaxx: don't know, but persia has been helping me big time with my Debian stuff
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: but I think we're going to use PPA to do it
<joejaxx> nixternal: ah ok :)
<StevenK> joejaxx: Not according to db.d.o
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: would you have any interest in working on that?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Sure, I like TeX stuff.
<nixternal> just want to get an opinion or 2 on a library package I created for Debian before I go to the mentors
<Fujitsu> Once PPA exists.
<joejaxx> StevenK: oh ok
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: Monday ;-)
<Fujitsu> Really?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> the beta server at least
<Fujitsu> It's targeted for 1.1.6
<LaserJock> I talked with cprov today
<Fujitsu> Ah, right.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ppa doe exist
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: yay!  do we have documentation for it?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Not for us mortals.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: no, no
<Hobbsee> pity
* Fujitsu was disappointed to see kiko untarget the LP non-freeness bug this morning.
<LaserJock> I think it's person-by-person basis
* Hobbsee wants to see kde 3.5.7 for dapper on it
<Hobbsee> if it's worht it
<crimsun> LTS releases are always worth it.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: anyway, if you're interested I can talk to cprov about getting you in on it too
<Fujitsu> Yay :)
<LaserJock> because I don't like the idea of me being the only person doing it
<astro73_> how can I get upstart to reread event.d?
<crimsun> wasn't that implied in your mediator role?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: please ask to get me on it, please
<Fujitsu> I'm wondering how they'd deploy PPA on beta, as it requires enormous changes to the archive (archive-rework isn't implemented on production yet, AFAIK)
<Hobbsee> er, -please
<crimsun> I'm surprised ~motu wasn't invited.
<LaserJock> well, hang on a little bit guys
<LaserJock> don't get all excited
<LaserJock> I think they want to ease into it
<Fujitsu> Not surprising.
<LaserJock> they might have an announcement Monday
<LaserJock> so I don't want to preempt them too much ;-)
<joejaxx> ;)
<crimsun> astro73_: noted in /usr/share/doc/upstart/README.Debian.gz
<LaserJock> but as MOTU liasion to LP I'll definately push for ~motu
<LaserJock> I've been talking to kiko regularly about having MOTU get access to PPA before it gets releaseed
<LaserJock> so we don't get surprised
<astro73_> crimsun: thanks (I keep on forgetting about /usr/share/doc)
<astro73_> ah
<astro73_> upstart  doesn't tell you if you have a syntax error
<astro73_> it just says the job doesn't exist
* LaserJock out, good night everybody
<Fujitsu> Night LaserJock.
<Hobbsee> night LaserJock 
<nixternal> hey, I am going to have a new upstream release built and tested here shortly for kchmviewer. I have just contacted the maintainer in Debian to let him know there is a new update. 
<nixternal> should I put ths package somewhere (bug,server, revu) or just wait and see if it gets into unstable?
<nixternal> I let him know that if he is to busy I would be mroe than happy to maintain it
<nixternal> I look like a wimp with just 1 debian package ;)
<crimsun> it's good practice to provide him with a debdiff
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> anyone have a chm file handy? I need to fix a couple of bugs
<StevenK> nixternal: Yup.
<StevenK> ~/ubuntu/done/edgy/vtk/vtk-5.0.1/Examples/GUI/Win32/vtkMFC/MDI_Instructions.chm
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<Hobbsee> heya
<nixternal> argh, this is annoying
<nixternal> I can't add an upstream bug report to smb4k in malone
<nixternal> tells me to select an appropriate project and that I can avoid the step by updating the packaging info
<crimsun> upstream upstream or Debian upstream?
<nixternal> upstream upstream
<crimsun> url?
<nixternal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smb4k/+bug/90548
<crimsun> meaning the upstream upstream bug.
<nixternal> https://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=11189&group_id=769
* StevenK chuckles. "upstream upstream"
<crimsun> oh, not set up in LP.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Watch out, there's also a project called upstream, so it could be upstream upstream upstream.
* StevenK beats Fujitsu with an ATM machine.
<nixternal> hahaha
<StevenK> Hrm, maybe you're too young for those ads.
* Fujitsu uses his PIN number.
* Fujitsu hits his NIC card.
<Fujitsu> Stupid TAFE instructor talking about NIC cards.
<StevenK> Heh heh
<afflux> keescook: ping
<crimsun> nixternal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/2886
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2886 in malone "Add support for developer.berlios.de bug tracker" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<nixternal> I swore I had linked to one of the smb4k bugs before...guess not
<afflux> keescook: You wanted me to keep you informed on my progress in the wordpress CVE bug. I noticed that the debian version that fixed these bugs also fixed about 7 other security vulnerabilities and I think it gets quite complicated to fix them all. I'd update to 2.2 or at least 2.0.10
<persia> nixternal: My apologies that it took me almost 6 hours to notice you sent me a URL.  Please see http://pastebin.ca/511065.
<StevenK> persia: Not good enough! :-P
<jussi01> hello all
<nixternal> thanks persia 
<jussi01> hei persia got a min?
<persia> StevenK: Hi!  Weren't you going to proofread the Contributing page?
<persia> jussi01: Sure.
<StevenK> persia: Sure. Like me.
<StevenK> Er.
<StevenK> Link, even.
* StevenK grins shiftly.
<persia> StevenK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<crimsun> "shiftily"?
<persia> "In a shity manner", no?
<persia> ShiFty!
<nixternal> persia: the copyright has the packaging license stuff already in it
* persia looks again
<jussi01> persia, you've commented that the .desktop file doesnt validate, what do you mean by that? also, there is no year of  copyright anywhere on the page or program...
<crimsun> no idea, but we're MOTU - we can Auden up words
<persia> jussi01: For no year of copyright, contact the upstream maintainers to ask when they wrote it.  For .desktop validation, use the desktop-file-validate tool from the desktop-file-utils package.
<StevenK> persia: If one does not already exist, open a bug in Debian & attach the patch (use Tags: patch(
<crimsun> ok, so saving state for changed mixer control element strings - it's best to not even attempt this.
<crimsun> I think it's better to wipe the state file and store it on dist-upgrades.
<StevenK> persia: "The package bugs page in launchpad  https;//bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagename"; launchpad -> LaunchPad
<jussi01> persia, ok, ill look into it. thanks
<StevenK> persia: "The package bugs page in the BTS  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=packagename"; BTS -> Debian BTS
<Fujitsu> Launchpad, not LaunchPad
<persia> nixternal: debian/copyright tells me that I should have received a copy of the GPL, but it doesn't tell me where I can find it.  On the other hand, I appear to have completely missed the last line of the file on my first read, so ignore #4.
<nixternal> hehe
* persia takes notes from dilligent proofreading
<nixternal> ya, I just threw the package up for you to take a quick look. I had all of that stuff pretty much fixed already here locally
<nixternal> I just need to do the ITP
<nixternal> seeking documentation on that one
<StevenK> persia: Mention dget to download sources...
* persia investigates dget
<crimsun> dget is a lifesaver.
<persia> OK  Having never used dget, am I correct that the standard call to mirror apt-get source would be `dget -qx --path . --insecure URL`?
<StevenK> persia: Meh, dget -x <.dsc URL>
<persia> StevenK: Won't that redownload orig.tar.gz if you already have one?
<Fujitsu> I don't think so.
<StevenK> What Fujitsu said.
<Fujitsu> Third paragraph of description.
<persia> OK.  Thanks.
<StevenK> persia: "Has an Ubuntu maintainer" - is worded badly. "Has the Maintainer set as per <spec URL>"
<Hobbsee> it'd be nice if launchpad actually supported dget.
<crimsun> dget: using existing libxcb_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> ^
<StevenK> Hobbsee: It's just because librarian is odd
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: File a wishlist bug and wait a decade.
<persia> Hobbsee: LP doesn't support dget?  I'm less sure I want to document the practice of using dget then, as the primary use case will be for contributors running feisty to download gutsy sources.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm thinking of that.
<StevenK> persia: If you try and dget from a librarian URL, it won't work.
<Fujitsu> persia: As in, you have to calculate the .dsc address manually.
<Hobbsee> persia: nah...debian, etc, uses it.  it's worth it
<crimsun> persia: I recommend being consistent with path syntax, e.g., debian/ as well as debian/patches (why omit the trailing '/'?)
<persia> crimsun: It was late, and I wasn't careful enough :)
<crimsun> Contributing is excellent, BTW. One concern is that the length may seem daunting. Can we make the more lengthy and detailed sections separate wiki pages?
<crimsun> Or is it intended as a one-stop reference?
<persia> crimsun: It could certainly be broken down, but I wanted to try to avoid pages like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted that might encourage people to just ask again, rather than click the pretty link.  To me the only section that seems like it should really be extracted is the detailed guide to generating a new candidate revision.
<persia> On the other hand, none of the detail sections seem very long, and I'm not sure how to get something that covers basic procedure (like Preparing Patches or Preparing New Packages) without the guide.  Suggestions would be welcome.
<crimsun> yeah, "Preparing New Revisions" is fine WRT length to me, but I'm not sure a newcomer will share my opinion.
<persia> Is there anyone new here?  What do you think?
<persia> To ask that differently: I'd really like to hear from some non-MOTUs who are interested in helping with the work about the length of the page, and whether the information is helpful.
<nixternal> persia: http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=libhttp
<nixternal> there you go!
<nixternal> ITP filed, additions and everything cleaned up
<jussi01> persia: which page? the getting started wiki page?
<persia> nixternal: Thanks.  I'll take a look.
<nixternal> k..I am going to head to bed now...be back in about 6 to 8 :)
<persia> jussi01: Thanks a lot.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<nixternal> g'nite all, and thanks again persia for the help
<persia> nixternal: Good night.
<persia> nixternal: Also, looks great.  Good luck.
<jussi01> persia: its very helpful except it needs a couple of things, 1. a table of contents! it feels long because you have no idea whats coming in front of you. 2. the 3 parts of things to do need bigger headings/better separators - atm the just merge into one big blob...
<persia> jussi01: Thanks.  That was the fear.
<jussi01> the info in it is great though. 
<persia> Could anyone point me to a good resource for adding a TOC?
<jussi01> persia: my wiki page has one
<persia> jussi01: Thanks.  I'll look at that source.
<jussi01> :D
<jussi01> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JussiSchultink if you need it
<jussi01> persia: btw, I just uploaded the fixed version :D http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5276 (mnemosyne). Anyone else is welcome to take a look also!
<Lutin> jussi01: according to the python policy, python-support should be >= 0.5.3
<jussi01> thanks Lutin I read something else... probably and old doc.
<Lutin> jussi01: the new python policy is available here : http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<jussi01> Lutin: bookmarked :D thanks
<persia> Lutin: Thanks.  jussi01: I'll catch the next one :)
<jussi01> persia: ok
<jussi01> :D
<Lutin> jussi01: np. btw, the last line of your copyright file is longer than 80 chars, maybe you could split in
<jussi01> Lutin: sure
<Lutin> s/in/it
<persia> StevenK: Fujitsu: Thank you.  I've incorporated your corrections.
<persia> crimsun: jussi01: I've updated the page.  How does this seem with regards to length / navigation?
<crimsun> persia: the ToC is great, much better IMO.
<jussi01> persia: looks much better!!!
<persia> Thanks.  I'll leave this.  Anyone think it would be better for /topic than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted?
<jussi01> me!!
<Lutin> jussi01: (ok, sounds picky :) ) : there shold be a double space before the Homepage: line in the description (debian/control) . maybe you also wan to remove all the blank lines at the bottom of debian/rules. and I *guess* (worth checking though) that Build-Depends: on python-all rather than python-all-dev would be better
<crimsun> persia: feel free - you have the powah.
<jussi01> Lutin: picky is good :D
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:persia] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> crimsun: I just like to solicit support before taking action :)
<superm1> so say a package doesn't provide a makefile with a install: section.  What is the correct way to handle moving the resultant binary?  Should a dpatch that adds a install: section to the makefile be done?
<Lutin> jussi01: this package for use with python2.4, right ?
<Lutin> is for use*
<azeem> superm1: that's one option, preferably send the patch upstream for inclusio
<azeem> n
<Fujitsu> Woah, that's a short topic.
<persia> superm1: There are two schools of thought.  One is to patch the makefile, the other is a really huge debian/package.install.  I recommend the former.
<Lutin> jussi01: or both ?
<superm1> Ok, i'll go for the former then
<superm1> thanks
<persia> Fujitsu: That's the idea :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Or a small package.install, depending on the number of files.
<Fujitsu> Some packages only want a couple of files.
<persia> superm1: Fujitsu is correct.  If there are only a couple files, debian/package.install is better.
<superm1> ok, i'll have to look how many resulting binaries show up
<jussi01> Lutin: yeah, 2.4
<Lutin> jussi01: I can't get why you build-depend on python-qt4-dev, python-xml, python-pygame. what's the rationale behind this ?
<jussi01> hmmm, package said it required them.....
<jussi01> anyway, please continue to comment, i will be back shortly. (the wife wants me....)
<Lutin> jussi01: Oo. weird
<Fujitsu> jussi01: They're probably runtime dependencies. If it builds fine without them, leave them out.
<Seveas> tepsipakki, falcon in feisty is not that far away, I hope to make a beta release on monday
<jmg> hey guys
<crimsun> Seveas: awesome!
<Lutin> jussi01: Python:Depends should be python:Depends in control
<jmg> i think ubuntu has an issue with sdhc cards
<jmg> it cant read my 2gb card, have tried on 2 boxes, feisty and edgy
<crimsun> jmg: what about dapper and gutsy?
<jmg> tried on 3 boxes, actually.
<jmg> crimsun: no dapper or gutsy boxes here
<jmg> [  533.213253]  usb 5-6: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
<jmg> feisty has a different error
<jmg> related to fat32
<jmg> have tried on 3 different card readers as well
<jmg> tried windows too to prove i wasnt on crack
<jmg> whats the current feisty kernel version?
<jmg> http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=116681336225318&w=2
<Fujitsu> It tracks git, so is currently some prerelease of 2.6.22
<Burgundavia> that is the gutsy one
<Burgundavia> feisty is 20
<Burgundavia> gutsy will be 22
<Lutin> jussi01: seems that the program fails to run when using python-qt4. I think it should depend on python-qt3 rather
<Lutin> and drop the explicit dependancy on python2.4
<Fujitsu> Oh, right, missed the feisty bit.
<jmg> edgy is 19
<jmg> er
<jmg> 16
<jmg> this box is edgy and will stay that way for a while
<Fujitsu> Isn't it .17?
* minghua only knows that dapper has .15
<ompaul> Riddell, can you mute ubotwo please
<ompaul> or sladen ^^ that applies to you too :)
<crimsun> you have ops, too.
<crimsun> (AFAIK it's still open.)
<ompaul> not that I can see
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ompaul]  by ChanServ
<ompaul> ohh I do 
<ompaul> :)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotwo]  by ompaul
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ompaul]  by ChanServ
<ompaul> thanks crimsun 
<crimsun> np.
<superm1> would any motu's have a few minutes for a revu this evening?
<jmg> 2.6.17-11-386
<jmg> my bad
<jmg> anyway the sdhc compat patch was 2.6.19
* Fujitsu wonders why LP logged him out again.
<jekil> hello
<minghua> Ohhh, the moderated mail flood
<minghua> jekil: hello there
<bmm> I've just added an extra comment to my REVU upload of ccbuild, please see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5154 if interested as I'm looking for my first advocator.
<bluekuja> bmm: instead of using See http://ccbuild.sf.net, it would be nice to have something like 
<bluekuja> .
<bluekuja>  Homepage: http://
<bluekuja> to see it in bolds in packages.ubuntu.com
<bluekuja> e.g http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/giggle
* jussi01 pokes persia
* jussi01 realises persia is not around....
* jussi01 pokes the channel... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5279 (mneomsyne) if its not too much to ask. Ive changed all the things in comments from Lutin and Fujitsu. ( I think)...
<rgl> hi
<rgl> I want to upgrade the nginx package, should I directly contact the package maintainer, or is there some collaboration page somewhere?
<jussi01> rgl: have a read of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing it will tell you how to update a package
<jussi01> rgl: its in /topic also
<rgl> jussi01, ah thank you.  and sorry for not reading that in the first place from the topic.
<jussi01> :D
<bmm> bluekuja: will fix. I'm going to wait a little longer for comments on the license before uploading the new version, but it is patched now ;)
<rgl> oh, I'm trying to create a GPG key, but: Not enough random bytes available.  (Need 283 more bytes)    :/
<rgl> how can I generate more random bytes?    its there at the prompt like, 10 minutes :|   I've tried to ping some sites, generate traffic, create some processes... still, no go :|
<bmm> rgl: try using 'find /' in the background while generating a key, and pressing the keyboard will help
<rgl> bmm, I did :(
<rgl> oh... "while"?
<rgl> it has to be be while its generating the key, or when it pauses to get more bytes?
<rgl> oh, it finally got the bytes :|
<Hobbsee> hi all
<DktrKranz> hi
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<bmm> rgl: for the future: while, the random pool of /dev/ranom is fed with random access times on the disk (among other things like interrupts etc.)
<rgl> bmm, I "known", but its taking ages in this box :|
<rgl> oh man... launchpad does not import my key :(
<rgl> though, its there: http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x834461DE&op=index
<LjL> ubotwo part
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ompaul]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-b %*!*@ubuntu/bot/ubotwo]  by ompaul
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ompaul]  by ChanServ
<Dabian> I bow to you, oh masters of the universe, and humbly bring forth a question for which I seek an answer!
* Hobbsee gets out the royal sword, and touches Dabian with it
<Fujitsu> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Hobbsee> what is your quest, sir Dabian?
<Dabian> I need to mark a bug as a duplicate of another on the holy Launchpad.
<Fujitsu> `Mark as duplicate' in the actions portlet.
<Dabian> Thank you!
<Fujitsu> No problem
<Dabian> I managed to finnish my quest!
<Dabian> So, as soon as you uploaded your GNUPG key and got it verified, you can mark bugs as duplicates?
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> Dabian: you can as soon as you have a launchpad account
<Fujitsu> That isn't a requirement.
<Dabian> Nice
<Dabian> What is the benefit of a GNUPG key then?
<Fujitsu> Being able to send in commands via email, and being able to upload packages if you're a member of the appropriate team.
<Dabian> (In connection with launchpad) :)
<Dabian> Nice
<Dabian> So first step before uploading packages, is to get a key.
<apacheLAGger> omg
<apacheLAGger> I need a Krevu
<apacheLAGger> for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5145
* Hobbsee looks
<apacheLAGger> hooray! :D
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: in the control files, do you think you could use the link to the homepage, or the kdeapps/look.org page, rather than the direct download link?
<apacheLAGger> sure
<Hobbsee> everything else looks fine
<apacheLAGger> k, thanks
<apacheLAGger> gotta upload with fixed control file
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee test builds
<DarkSun88> There's a problem in log of builds. What's the problem?
<DarkSun88> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22570/
<DarkSun88> The package is galago-sharp.
<Hobbsee> DarkSun88: where's that?
* apacheLAGger is wondering
<apacheLAGger> do we have a dbus-sharp in the repos at all?
<Hobbsee> nope
<apacheLAGger> DarkSun88: you'd have to package dbus-sharp first http://www.ndesk.org/DBusSharp
<Fujitsu> !info dbus-sharp
<ubotu> Package dbus-sharp does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<Fujitsu> (pitti) obsolete, unmaintained, superseded by ndesk-dbus, LP#87931
<apacheLAGger> god I hate it when upstream ships a debian dir within the tarball
<Fujitsu> (that's the removal rationale for dbus-sharp)
<apacheLAGger> what shall I do when the sources include .svn or CVS directories?
<apacheLAGger> define a clean rule? or just bug upstream?
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: remove it in the clean rule
<Hobbsee> both?
<apacheLAGger> ok :)
<Dabian> apacheLAGger: Same goes for the debian dir, I guess .. but why don't you want upstream to provide it?  You can upstream your changes, I guess?
<apacheLAGger> Dabian: they are mostly as useable as shit :|
<apacheLAGger> and there is no reason why any not debian based distro should need it
<apacheLAGger> so basically also waste of space
<Dabian> apacheLAGger: Well .. traditionally makefiles also contains rules for all kinda different platforms.
<Dabian> Once built, I guess the milage may not vary so much from that?
<apacheLAGger> nope, though there are people who actually compile it
<Dabian> True .. I guess in this case the gentoo people would those with the greatest wrath..
<Dabian> (in this regard)
* Hobbsee checks licencing and such
<apacheLAGger> Dabian: mh, well not much of a big deal anyway I just don't like it ;-)
<apacheLAGger> though upstream devs who are not answering mails are a big deal
<apacheLAGger> specially if the tarball is totally broken :(
<Dabian> Yeah
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: you didnt update it to follow the maintainer spec
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~/Desktop/foo$ lintian khalkhi_0.2.1.99+rc1-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<Hobbsee> W: khalkhi source: not-binnmuable-all-depends-any khalkhi -> khalkhi-kcm
<Hobbsee> W: khalkhi source: not-binnmuable-any-depends-all libkhalkhi0 -> khalkhi-data
* Hobbsee wonders what one does with ^
<Dabian> Is that python?
<apacheLAGger> qtkdec++
<Dabian> Oh!
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Ignore it. It's talking about Debian-specific binary NMU rules.
<apacheLAGger> where khalkhi is a meta package and khalkhi-data is a package with .desktop files etc.
<Hobbsee> great
<Hobbsee> okay
* Hobbsee uploads, ten
<Hobbsee> *then
<Dabian> StevenK: You're old debian-man, are you not?
<StevenK> Dabian: Aye.
<Dabian> StevenK: Thought I recogniced your nick :)
<Hobbsee> he's very old and decrepit
<StevenK> Oh great, I have a reputation.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hush
<Dabian> StevenK: I know some former debian-devellopers who wants to package for ubuntu.
* apacheLAGger kills the god damn away shortcut and uploads khalkhi with changed maintainer
<Dabian> StevenK: They lack a guide that only tells of the differences from packing to debian.
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: i fixed it
<apacheLAGger> oh
<apacheLAGger> up it is :|
<Dabian> StevenK: Also, they want to know how to "harvest" debian packages.
<StevenK> Dabian: Just get them to join here. If they can package they can get up to speed very quickly.
<Dabian> StevenK: There exist no such document?
<StevenK> There does, I just can't recall it at the moment.
<apacheLAGger> hum
<Dabian> ok
<StevenK> Dabian: And what do you mean, harvest Debian packages?
<apacheLAGger> Hobbsee: thanks for uploading :) btw, do you know whether cmake.mk is going into cdbs for gutsy?
<Dabian> StevenK: Well, if a package is in debian .. how to "ubuntunize" it.
<Dabian> StevenK: and get it accepted into ubuntu.
<StevenK> Dabian: Ah. Usually, exercise patience.
<apacheLAGger> well
<apacheLAGger> sync request?
<StevenK> Dabian: But it depends where abouts in the development cycle we are.
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: i have no idea - but that would be wise.
<Dabian> Some also have packages in debian, and they want those in ubuntu as well.
<apacheLAGger> aye
* Hobbsee checks for bugs in cdbs
<StevenK> Dabian: At this point, do nothing - we pull directly from Debian and keep pulling until Debian Import Freeze.
* apacheLAGger continues packaging of pokerclock
<StevenK> Dabian: Are they also Debian old-hands?
<Dabian> StevenK: So the "harvesting" is automated?
<StevenK> Dabian: At this point in the cycle, it's semi-automatic.
<Hobbsee> apacheLAGger: have you poked debian about it?
<Hobbsee> there's no ubuntu bug about it
<apacheLAGger> Hobbsee: didn't do anything yet - I'm right now packaging my first cmade application :)
<StevenK> Dabian: However, if the package in question has Ubuntu changes, they need to be merged in manually, or checked that the Ubuntu changes can be dropped. That process is called merging, which is what most of us are doing now.
<Hobbsee> ahh :)
<Dabian> StevenK: However, thats for packages already integrated in ubuntu, right?  I mean .. there wont be any autochanges?
<StevenK> Dabian: Right.
<DktrKranz> I have to include get-orig-source rule in debian/rules. Since I'm not sure on how to proceed, is there a reference I can follow?
<apacheLAGger> Oo
<apacheLAGger> wtf
<Dabian> So .. who decides how fast a debian package gets part of Ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> the autosyncer
<Hobbsee> and whether it has any ubuntu changes
<Dabian> So, if its up to the autosyncer, what criteas does that have?
<StevenK> DktrKranz: That rule pre-dates me becoming a DD and that happened in 2001.
<apacheLAGger> is it legitimately to store a binary in /usr/share/appname/binary and link it to /usr/bin/binary?
<StevenK> apacheLAGger: Not really.
<DktrKranz> StevenK, so?
* apacheLAGger thinks that upstream just didn't manage to make the paths variable :|
<StevenK> DktrKranz: So it really shouldn't exist in debian/rules.
<DktrKranz> using watch instead?
<StevenK> Yup.
<DktrKranz> my sources are on a bzr repo, is there some specific rules to follow?
<StevenK> There's some XS-VCS-* you can set in debian/control, but I don't know anything about them.
<DktrKranz> I'll have a look at some packages in our repo already
<DktrKranz> thanks :)
<SlimG> How does dpkg-shlibdeps work? does it find all dependencies required by <binary> and strip out those dependencies that is installed in ex. feisty by default?
<Hobbsee> SlimG: see man dh_shlibdeps
<Hobbsee> sorry man dpkg-shlibdeps
<SlimG> Doesn't say anything about stripping out default packages there, I'm still not entirely sure thou
* tsmithe pokes man-di
<pschulz01> Grettings.. I have some packages that I would like to upload for review.
<Dabian> pschulz01: Have you uploaded your key?
<pschulz01> Dabian: Just checking.. I have uploaded before.. but that was a while ago.
<pschulz01> Dabian: Yes.. it's there.
<persia> pschulz01: Are they new packages, or new revisions of existing packages?
<Dabian> pschulz01: Good.
<pschulz01> Dabian: Competely new.. http://www.thousandparsec.net/tp/ <-- new software
<persia> pschulz01: Are you a member of contributors of packages for ubuntu universe?
<pschulz01> Dabian: I have added myself to the... yes
<persia> pschulz01: Does `dput revu whatever-Source.changes not work?
<pschulz01> persia: ?
<pschulz01> persia: I can't log into the revu yet.
<persia> pschulz01: Nobody can log in until they've uploaded at least one package.
<pschulz01> persia: Ahh.. I knew there was a trick :-)
<pschulz01> persia: I Remeber hitting that one last time as well.
<joejaxx> persia: how do you unsubscribe u-u-s from a package?
<pschulz01> libtpproto-cpp_0.1.0-2_i386.changes
<persia> joejaxx: Only members of teams can unsubscribe the team.  If you want to retract a request for sponsorship, you can ask here for someone to unsubscribe.
<joejaxx> persia: can you unsubscribe 61151 that is actually a main package
<persia> bug 61151
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61151 in system-config-cluster ""separated" spelt incorrectly" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/61151
<nixternal> good mornin'!
<persia> joejaxx: Unsubscribed.
<joejaxx> persia: thanks
* apacheLAGger tells Hobbsee that there is already new work waiting ;-) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5285
<Hobbsee> nope :P
* Hobbsee is heading towards bed.
<apacheLAGger> Hobbsee: well, just put it on your todo :)
<apacheLAGger> gotta go out anyway, much to nice weather to stay inside
<apacheLAGger> Hobbsee: good night
<Hobbsee> my todo is so long that i'm ignoring it
<Hobbsee> and if i ignore it for long enough, most of it will be obsolete
<apacheLAGger> ^^
<apacheLAGger> did it that way as well
<apacheLAGger> now I just check better how I name the items
<apacheLAGger> ie I'd note "revu packages" instead of every single package :)
<apacheLAGger> well
<apacheLAGger> AFK
<nixternal> persia: I might be co-maintaining Debian's plucker..although I told the guy if I run across something I will let him know
<nixternal> I was just kind of worried he gave up on building the desktop...can't have that..there are a lot of plucker-desktop users with Ubuntu..they keep emailing me
<persia> nixternal: Cool!  Is upstream really dead, or just dormant?
<nixternal> dead
<nixternal> 8 months was the last time anyone touched code
<nixternal> so maybe that qualifies as dormant
<nixternal> not dead yet?
<persia> nixternal: If you're actually interested in maintaining it, you might want to see if you can contact them to use their CVS and web page :)
<nixternal> but there hasn't been any movement
<nixternal> oh no, I don't want to go that far with plucker..I hate it with a passion :)
<persia> nixternal: Depends.  One of my upstreams didn't touch the package I was working on for three years, but was happy to accept my patch, and is now planning a new release (he was working on other projects).
<nixternal> I do like the fact they have a C/C++ parser now though and not just Python and Perl
<nixternal> that could be happening with plucker...maybe they are working underground
<persia> nixternal: If you hate plucker, why are you maintaining it?
<nixternal> it seems plucker is pretty popular..can't see all of the devs just giving up on it
<nixternal> persia: I have no clue...it is an interesting package actually, and keeps me on my toes
* persia applauds nixternal's public spirit
<nixternal> plus I accomplished something the Debian maintainer couldn't or didn't want to, and I built the -desktop successfully and tested it
<nixternal> as a matter of fact, Spider is kicking along right now updating itself
<nixternal> I have never been successful with it and my old Sony Clie PDA, so I will play around with it
<persia> nixternal: Ah, so you don't hate the plucker package, it's just the software :)
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> brb
<sacater> hey all, I still need a place on a ssh server with irssi and screen, are there any other places?
<sacater> sigh
<sacater> brainiac_ghost: away wit thee
<brainiac_ghost> errr... NO
* sacater thwocks brainiac_ghost 
<sacater> bad brainiac_ghost bad!
<brainiac_ghost> heh
<brainiac_ghost> NO!
<xxxxx1> hi people
<persia> hi xxxxx1
<xxxxx1> hello persia. :) 
<joejaxx> persia: do you have a free moment?
<ampache> Is this the right channel to discuss php web app packaging problems
<joejaxx> persia: i was wondering if you would like to help rewording the text on the default index page for lighttpd
<persia> joejaxx: I will in a couple minutes.  Tell me what you want, and I'll get to it soon (if someone else doesn't first)
<joejaxx> i am looking a bug #115565 at the moment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115565 in lighttpd "Default index.html links to Debian Bug Tracking system" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115565
<persia> joejaxx: Sure.  What kind of help do you need?
<joejaxx> persia: well it has links to debian pages which i can change
<joejaxx> but some of the wording on the page i do not know if it is necessary or not
<joejaxx> i can pastebin the contents
<joejaxx> well it is mostly the About this page section
<persia> Sure.  If you pastebin your draft, I'll proofread it.
<ampache> really don't have time to get into the package right now I was just making sure I was in the right channel so when I do I can jump right in
<persia> ampache: Welcome.  This is the right channel.  See the topic for further information about jumping in.
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> Can someone confirm that Qt4 Designer has no .desktop?
<persia> RainCT: Hi.
<ampache> Thank for offering to help, have relatives down right now so you know how that is,  got to go thank again
<persia> RainCT: Are you looking at desktop files in general, or just Qt4 Designer?
<RainCT> persia: just that one
<persia> RainCT: Just checking as I'd seen your comments on lshw-gtk ;)
<persia> If you're looking at a single package, I recommend using `aptitude download packagename; dpkg--contents package.deb | grep desktop` as the easiest way to check.  You might also look in your /var/cache/apt/*.Contents-architecture.gz files, if you have them.
<joejaxx> persia: http://pastebin.ca/511935
<joejaxx> persia: what i am really wondering about is that middle line in the about this page section
<persia> joejaxx: You mean "This computer has installed..."?
<joejaxx> persia: yeah
<persia> Hrm.  I'm not sure I like "...has nothing to do with Ubuntu...".
<joejaxx> persia: exactly
<joejaxx> that is why i wanted to get a second opinion
<RainCT> persia: it hasn't. should I do one and post it on Launchpad? :)
<joejaxx> persia: so should i remove that entire line?
<joejaxx> i guess it is not needed
<persia> RainCT:  Adding a file would be great, but a patch to add the file would be even better.  Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles and the "Preparing Patches" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for guidance (ask here if you have questions). 
<persia> joejaxx: No we need that line.
<RainCT> persia: okay, will try
<RainCT> btw, the package is named qt4-designer but the exec designer-qt4. is this correct that way? I've been like 10 minuts searching how to start it.. xDD
<joejaxx> persia: i am just wonderinghow do we reword that without it sounding like that
<joejaxx> s/wonderinghow/wondering\ how/g
<persia> joejaxx: How about "This computer has Ubuntu installed, but does not represent Ubuntu.  Please do not contact Ubuntu to report issues with this host."?
<joejaxx> yes that sounds better
* joejaxx fixes
<persia> I'm fairly sure about the first sentence, but the second is harder: specifically that we do want bug reports from the host administrator (and don't want to annoy users), but we don't want bugs because someone sets up a spam daemon with Ubuntu.
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> content issues?
<joejaxx> or disputes?
<persia> I'm afraid that "Please do not contact Ubuntu about it"  or  "Please do not contact Ubuntu to report issues with this host." doesn't do the right thing.
<joejaxx> what about Please do not contact Ubuntu to report hosted content disputes with this host?
<persia> I think the Debian policy that every webserver had to ship with language like that was started because there had been inappropriate use of a machine that happened to have Debian installed and an available unconfigured webserver, which caused complaints to Debian, but that may have been theoretical rather than real, or I could be mistaken.
<joejaxx> it sounds like it
<persia> joejaxx: Better, but still not something I am 100% sure about.  Do we have a branding team?  Maybe they can help.
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> -marketing?
* joejaxx does not know who handles these kinds of things
<persia> joejaxx: That's probably good.  They would have a better understanding of how to balance the risk of misappropriation and the risk of not getting bug reports than I.
<joejaxx> alright then
* joejaxx goes to ask
<persia> RainCT: There are a lot of packages where the binary and source package names differ, and even more where the installed executable does not match the binary package name.  You can get the source with `dpkg -S executable` and `apt-cache showsrc binary`.
<RainCT> what's the mimetype of a .ui file?
<RainCT> persia: ok
<RainCT> persia: what's better for the logo? .png or .xpm?
<RainCT> *logo => icon
<persia> RainCT: The Icons section of MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles covers it in some detail, but in summary, we need a .xpm to put it in the Debian menu, but .png's are prettier and higher resolution, so if one is available, it's nice to include it.  On the other hand, it's harder to package a .png file that isn't included upstream, so these are often omitted.
* persia goes to sleep
<leonel> hello motus !
<xxxxx1> hi leonel 
<leonel> hello xxxxx1
<leonel> hey !   there are no free  Dell  in  shipit.ubuntu.com     .....
<leonel> is that a bug ?
<leonel> hehehehehe
<xxxxx1> :)
<leonel> I'll report it  on launch pad ..
<RainCT> how can I report a bug on LP if the package isn't listed there (on "Choose...")?
<joejaxx> leonel: no free dell computer? lol :P
<beuno> RainCT: what package?
<sladen> ompaul: everyone has equal ops here
<RainCT> beuno: qt4-designer
<LaserJock> RainCT: did you do a search for qt4-designer?
<LaserJock> RainCT: there should be a little search link next to the Choose
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes, sure
<beuno> RainCT: as far as I can see, the package is actually called "qt4-designer-kdecopy", but I can't find it in launchpad either
<RainCT> beuno: it's called "qt4-designer", "qt4-designer-kdecopy" is another one (or that's what I think :p)
<RainCT> ok found it, on LP it's called "qt4-x11"
<LaserJock> the source package is qt4-x11
<RainCT> thanks anyways :)
<beuno> RainCT: you're right, both of them exist
<LaserJock> RainCT: can you hang on a sec
<LaserJock> RainCT: did you do a search fot qt4-designer in Launchpad?
<beuno> LaserJock: how come a search for "qt4" doesn't show any results at all?
<joejaxx> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+package/qt4-designer
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes, on the "Choose..." popup
<LaserJock> RainCT: and it didn't return anything?
<RainCT> LaserJock: qt4-designer no. ("qt4" yes, but I thought it was called qt4-designer so I didn't see the -x11 until I looked on a qt3 bug and noticed it's called like that)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so qt4-x11 did come up but there wasn't a qt4-designer anywhere?
<RainCT> LaserJock: that's it
<leonel> joejaxx: how can we  patch  shipit.ubuntu.com  to fix that ?  hehe
<LaserJock> RainCT: alright thanks. I just wanted to nail down the problem. I think I might bug the Launchpad guys about that
<joejaxx> leonel: :P
<RainCT> LaserJock:  ok, np
<RainCT> how can I extract the source from a .deb?
<LaserJock> well, a .deb is a binary package
<LaserJock> are you wanted to get the source code that was used to build the .deb?
<LaserJock> *wanting
<RainCT> ah yes.. apt-get source.. so I've to edit the sources.list and update :(
<LaserJock> if you already have deb-src lines in sources.list then it's all good
<LaserJock> rather, uncommented deb-src lines
<RainCT> well just used Sistem > Admin > "Software Sources" 
<LaserJock> sure
<RainCT> while it downloads, can someone explain me how I add the .desktop and icon to the package please?
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, if there is a .desktop but it's not being install or it's going to the wrong place then you can fix that
<LaserJock> if it just doesn't have one at all you can adapt an existing one
<LaserJock> .desktop files are stored in /usr/share/applications/
<LaserJock> icons generally go to /usr/share/pixmaps/
<RainCT> yes, I already did one (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/117045), but I don't know how to tell the package to place it on that folders
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117045 in qt4-x11 "Missing .desktop for qt4-designer" [Undecided,In progress]  
<LaserJock> RainCT: here's some general info on .desktops, if you haven't seen it already, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles
<LaserJock> RainCT: you'll probably find some .install files in the debian/ directory in the source
<RainCT> LaserJock: ok, can I just use bash there I have they a own syntax?
<LaserJock> RainCT: well, it's a pretty easy syntax, you should get it when you look at the .install file
<LaserJock> basicaly, <path to .desktop> usr/share/applications
<RainCT> ok
<LaserJock> hmm, anybody know who Ceros on the wiki is?
<ompaul> sladen, so I noticed at the time :)
<LaserJock> RainCT: hmm, I can't duplicate your Launchpad problem
<LaserJock> when I do a search for qt4-designer in the little Choose ... popup it shows up
<RainCT> LaserJock: No results found for keyword 'qt4-designer'.
<LaserJock> on what page exactly?
<RainCT> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug > Package > Choose...
<RainCT> @ LaserJock
<LaserJock> ohhh
<LaserJock> it works with launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<LaserJock> the Choose popup on the page you did is different
<LaserJock> that's very interesting
<joejaxx> is there a list of packages that are in ubuntu but not in debian?
<LaserJock> kinda yeah
<LaserJock> joejaxx: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/all-packages.html
<joejaxx> ah ok thanks :)
<xxxxx1> bye people!
<joejaxx> wow 1846 packages
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if that's been updated to look at gutsy
<joejaxx> oh ok
<RainCT> LaserJock: got the source. in "debian" there is a a qt4-designer.install file with usr/bin/designer-qt4 (line break) usr/lib/qt4/plugins/designer/*.so on it. I've just to add ./qt4-designer.desktop /usr/share/applications/qt4-designer.desktop and ./qt4-designer.xpm /usr/share/pixmaps/qt4-designer.xpm to it?
<LaserJock> RainCT: ok, so did you add the .desktop and .xpm?
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes, are they ok on the debian directory or shall I create a folder for them?
<LaserJock> put then in the debian directory
<LaserJock> then in the .install file do:
<LaserJock> debian/qt4-designer.desktop usr/share/applications/
<LaserJock> debian/qt4-designer.xpm usr/share/pixmaps/
<RainCT> LaserJock: on debuild, I can just ignore stuff like this, or? dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of `debian/patches/[...] .dpatch' will not be represented in diff
<RainCT> gpg: hi ha un problema amb l'agent: es deshabilitar el seu s (there's a problem with the agent: his use will be disabled)     debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....     debuild: fatal error at line 1155:     running debsign failed
<RainCT> somebody help?
<joejaxx> RainCT: what is the commandline you are using ?
<geser> RainCT: do you use the seahorse-agent?
<joejaxx> ie dbeuild ......
<joejaxx> debuild*
<RainCT> geser: yes
<RainCT> joejaxx: debuild -S
<geser> bug #78165 has a work-around for this problem
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
<RainCT> ok thanks
<joejaxx> geser: do you know how to make debuild automatically use a certain key?
<joejaxx> so you do not have to do -kKEYHERE
<geser> if debuild honors ~/.devscripts you can use DEBSIGN_KEYID in it
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> hello pleia2 :)
<ArneOlav> hello! Are there any chance of there ever coming a netpbm-nonefree package in Ubuntu, instead of the old netpbm-free package that comes from Debian?
<pleia2> joejaxx: hey
<LaserJock> ArneOlav: what is it nonfree?
<LaserJock> *why
<\sh> moins
<RainCT> is it normal for "patch -p1" to be damn slow?
<LaserJock> well, if it's just patch -p1 it would be
<LaserJock> you need patch -p1 < patchfile
<tsmithe> lol
<RainCT> LaserJock: it's  patch -p1 ../qt4-x11_4.2.3-0ubuntu4.debdiff 
<RainCT> LaserJock: is that < missing?
<LaserJock> put the < in there
<tsmithe> it generally accepts the patch from stdin
<tsmithe> so you nee... damn LaserJock, i was explaining!
<RainCT> on the wiki it's without the <, shall I change it?
<tsmithe> yep
<\sh> can someone do me a favour, and put a j2me package from sun on a webserver where I can download it? somehow I'm not able to download it form sun :(
<\sh> s/form/from/
<LaserJock> \sh: got a URL for it?
<LaserJock> or at least a beginning URL
<\sh> LaserJock, on http://java.sun.com/javame/downloads/index.jsp the first download...go down to the next page, there is the real download link
<\sh> i actually don't know if it's on suns side, or on my side, just because coming via umts
<LaserJock> "Sun Java Wireless Toolkit 2.5.1 for CLDC"
<LaserJock> ?
<ArneOlav> LaserJock, because there is a netpbm-free that is maintained by alioth. You can find more info here http://netpbm.alioth.debian.org/
<\sh> LaserJock, yepp
<RainCT> can someone check this (debdiff uploaded) please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/117045
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117045 in qt4-x11 "Missing .desktop for qt4-designer" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<LaserJock> ArneOlav: I'm asking what is not free about the nonfree package?
<LaserJock> \sh: I get a Fatal Exception when I try
<\sh> LaserJock, ok..me too
<LaserJock> Fatal Error rather
<RainCT> and why can I change the importance of bugs? :S
<LaserJock> can or can't?
<RainCT> * can't
<joejaxx> RainCT: i think you have to be on Ubuntu QA to be able to change them
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> RainCT: couple things
<LaserJock> you need to do this for gutsy so in the changelog you need use gutsy instead of feisty
<\sh> LaserJock, so it's sun and not me or you :)
<ArneOlav> LaserJock, I don't know...
<LaserJock> and in the .desktop for the icon don't use a path, just put Icon=qt4-designer
<jussi01> Hello all
<RainCT> LaserJock: okay. is there a easy way to change this now, without redo everything?
<\sh> RainCT, dch -D gutsy
<\sh> for the distro in debian/changelog
<\sh> adjust the patch
<ArneOlav> LaserJock, I am guessing some copyrights
<RainCT> \sh: and then I've to redo debuild -S?
<\sh> RainCT, jeppp
<RainCT> ok
<RainCT> why don't bugfixes go into Feisty?
<LaserJock> RainCT: because Feisty has been released
<RainCT> but there are still updates like every 2 days..
<LaserJock> those are security and data-loss bug fixes
<\sh> RainCT, security related issues are going into feisty/edgy/dapper...
<RainCT> ah
<RainCT> (is there also a way to make   debuild -S   faster? :p)
<LaserJock> RainCT: it should only take a few seconds to maybe 30s
<\sh> RainCT, buy a new computer ;)
<RainCT> lol
<RainCT> 4 minutes lol
<LaserJock> that is a bit long
<RainCT> great, let it run again after deleting two CVS folder that were in the source and then it ignores the change ^o)
<ryanakca> is this safe to ignore? 
<ryanakca> W: kmilo-legacy: package-has-a-duplicate-relation depends: kmilo, kmilo (>= 4:3.5.6-1)
<ryanakca> W: kmilo: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libkmilo1
<RainCT> LaserJock: new one updated
<LaserJock> ryanakca: I don't think so
<xxxxx1> ryanakca: nop. try lintian -i
<ryanakca> xxxxx1: ah, thanks
<xxxxx1> ryanakca: np.
<geser> ryanakca: the first one should be easy to fix
<RainCT> * updated = uploaded :-/
<LaserJock> ryanakca: doesn't look like the .desktop got updated
<LaserJock> ryanakca: sorry that was for RainCT 
<LaserJock> RainCT: ^^
<rgl> I've made my first package change!   I've just upgraded a existing package, nginx, but I'm having a bit trouble generating the last bit, the interdiff, so far I've this: http://id.ruilopes.com/ubuntu/packages/nginx/0.5.20/    can you guys help me out?
<LaserJock> RainCT: did you redo the debdiff?
<RainCT> LaserJock: yes
<ryanakca> geser: yep
<LaserJock> RainCT: hmm, check the .desktop
<LaserJock> RainCT: also have you had a chance to build the package?
<RainCT> oops no
<RainCT> :-[
<ryanakca> geser: but then, I don't know if it (the first one) is supposed to be that way. I didn't touch the control file, and it's already in main. And I don't see how kmilo-legacy can't depend on kmilo, since all -legacy is is extra keybindings for older laptops
<ryanakca> geser: should I pastebin the control file?
<geser> yes please
<rgl> its normal for a interdiff to contain the patches to revert the previous patches, and then, add our changes?
<Q-FUNK> Has anything changed since the Feisty freeze about getitng package syncs from Debian?  is that still automatic, just as long as no delta exists that are Ubuntu-specific?
<ryanakca> geser: http://pastebin.ca/512296
<RainCT> LaserJock: now :)
<ryanakca> geser: lines 328 to 366
* RainCT brb
<geser> ryanakca: the pastebin has only 349 lines
<geser> ryanakca: I would try to remove kmilo from the depends on kmilo-legacy, rebuild the package and check if kmilo-legacy still has a versioned depends on kmilo
<geser> I guess the duplicate deps come from the libs in kmilo (see the second warning)
<ryanakca> geser: http://pastebin.ca/512308 , there. I cut out the useless text
<ryanakca> must be a line limit or something
<geser> you can ignore both warnings (as it does gain much but only increases the Ubuntu delta)
<ryanakca> okies
<geser> s/does/doesn't/
<LaserJock> RainCT: looks great, just one thing, you need do this on top of the gutsy package (4.2.3-1ubuntu2) not feisty's
<ryanakca> ah
<geser> that way it makes more sense
<LaserJock> RainCT: I'm guessing it won't make any difference but you should still check it out
<RainCT> LaserJock: oh, how can I do that?
<LaserJock> get the gutsy package source
<RainCT> yes but from where?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/qt4-x11
<RainCT> LaserJock: do I need the orig.tar.gz? it's called the same
<geser> RainCT: you can have a deb-src line for gutsy without problems on a feisty system
<LaserJock> if it's the same version you don't need to get a new one
<LaserJock> geser: can you? I ran into a bug with that a while ago
<RainCT> LaserJock: ok, so I don't need the debuild, just the debdiff is enough?
<LaserJock> RainCT: you should always rebuild the source package and it's a good idea to rebuild the binary package
<LaserJock> but put the debdiff in the bug report
<RainCT> "Launchpad is offline at the moment for maintenance." great
<RainCT> ok, uploaded http://librarian.launchpad.net/7844298/qt4-x11_4.2.3-1ubuntu3.debdiff
<LaserJock> ok, you need to debdiff from the gutsy version to your version
<LaserJock> it looks like you debdiffed from the feisty version to your gutsy version
<RainCT> I changed my .dsc the version and the .dsc's file name and debdiffed with the gutsy one
<geser> RainCT: you need to redo you changes to the gutsy version
<geser> the gutsy version has some additional fixes compared to the feisty one which get removed by your debdiff
<geser> and the version needs also to be updated
<RainCT> geser: uhm.. how do I update the source folder?
<geser> I don't understand. You mean how to unpack the source package from gutsy?
<LaserJock> RainCT: basically, just save your .desktop and .xpm file somewhere and remove the source folder you were working in
<RainCT> I've the files qt4-x11_4.2.3.orig.tar.gz, qt4-x11_4.2.3-1ubuntu2.diff.gz and qt4-x11_4.2.3-1ubuntu2.dsc
<RainCT> what do I do with them to get the source folder?
<LaserJock> RainCT: then unpack the gutsy source with dpkg-source -x qt4-x11_4.2.3-1ubuntu2.dsc
<RainCT> done
<LaserJock> now recreate your changes
<RainCT> how do I change the changelog?
<RainCT> dch isn't working
<RainCT> it puts another guy's changes before mine, with version 1ubuntu2
<LaserJock> well, that's the version that's in gutsy
<RainCT> so shouldn't it add 1ubuntu3?
<LaserJock> you should just run dch -i
<RainCT> ah ok
<RainCT> ok done+
<geser> and add either -D gutsy or change the distribution in the editor
<RainCT> there are 2 CVS folders in the source, how can I remove them? or should I leave them?
<geser> as this is already packaged software, leave them
<geser> besides dpkg-source will ignore the removals as it can't represent them in the diff.gz
<RainCT> ok, debuilding
<RainCT> LaserJock, geser: uploaded
<Fujitsu> Morning everyone.
<LaserJock> hi Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi LaserJock.
<joejaxx> hello Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi joejaxx.
<RainCT> night Fujitsu :p
<LaserJock> RainCT: looks good
<RainCT> :-)
<LaserJock> RainCT: now you want to subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to that bug
<RainCT> already did that
<astro73__> anyone have a saitek gamer's keyboard?
<LaserJock> RainCT: great
<geser> LaserJock, RainCT: qt4-x11 is in main
<LaserJock> doh
<LaserJock> I did wonder but was too lazy to look
<RainCT> so I've to add ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<geser> yes
<RainCT> how do I unsubscribe -universe ?
<geser> RainCT: I've already done it
<geser> you need to be a member of a team to unsubscribe it
<RainCT> geser: but I subscribed it again trying if it asks to unsubscribe if it's submitted twice :/
<RainCT> so now I've to wait for someone to review it?
<geser> RainCT: when I look at the subscribers of this bug it looks ok now
<geser> yes
<RainCT> OK, thanks to all
<geser> have you checked the .desktop file with desktop-file-validate? because it gives: error: required key "Encoding" not found
<geser> and a warning about the undefined "Application" category
<RainCT> :s
<RainCT> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-0.9.8.html here it says encoding is deprecated
<geser> than the tool probably needs an update
<Fujitsu> Interesting. Looks like Debian is making shlibs more intelligent
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: URL?
<Fujitsu> About 3 hours ago on debian-devel
<RainCT> well, gonna go
<RainCT> good night
<geser> RainCT: ignore my comment about the .desktop file than
<Fujitsu> RainCT: You should remove the Application category.
<geser> RainCT: I looked at your debdiff and it looks ok to me
#ubuntu-motu 2007-05-27
<RainCT> Fujitsu: ok removed it
<RainCT> thanks to all!
<RainCT> and now good night :p
<joejaxx> what is the correct versioning format for a backported package?
<LaserJock> I think ~<release>
<LaserJock> but I'm not positive
<LaserJock> you might check the -backports repo
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: erm... subject line about that shlib improvement?
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: `Improved dependencies on shared libraries'
<Fujitsu> joejaxx: ~<release>1
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: ok thanks
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks :)
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: hmm... well.  nice discussion, yes.
* \sh goes to bed...cu later
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<persia> Morning TheMuso
<Hobbsee> morning all
<persia> Morning Hobbsee
* Hobbsee kicks stevenk's isp
<welshbyte> sigh, another bug report to the mailing list :/
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> "PLEASE REPORT BUGS TO THE BUGTRACKER, KTHXBYE"
<welshbyte> makes me wonder why they do it and if we can put a notice saying "File bugs on launchpad please" somewhere strategic to avoid it
<Hobbsee> people dont read
<jmg> ^
<Hobbsee> because the bugtracker is confusing, probably
<Hobbsee> requirng you to know what the package actually is
<welshbyte> hmm, oh well
<Hobbsee> when these are #ubuntu-type people, you shouldn't expect them to actually read - they want personal responses
* Hobbsee has seen this a lot, due to ops there, and people who dont read topics and FAQ's
<Hobbsee> because, if i ask again, then just maybe the answer will be different!!!
<jmg> yes
<jmg> using #ubuntu as a biologic search engine
<jmg> purely because answering a question with "google it" is considered bad 
<jmg> when actually all the answering person is doing is googling it him/herself
<welshbyte> that's true
<Hobbsee> of course
<jmg> if i am in #u and someone asks a question i know the answer to, i'll answer
<welshbyte> although i've done that in the past and learned a bit from googling it myself... but i'd only do that if i was interested in the problem and wasn't busy
<jmg> but many of the users would benefit from simply learning to jfgi
<jmg> perhaps publishing a workflow diagram
<jmg> ubuntu-wiki -> google -> #u
<jmg> answer -> ubuntu-wiki
<jmg> also i get yelled at for using factoids to answer questions, even when the factoid points at the answer
<welshbyte> how unappreciative
<jmg> <user1> help my sound doesnt work
<jmg> <me> !sound
<jmg> <op> dont do that
<Hobbsee> jmg: who was the op?
<jmg> Hobbsee: forgot
<Hobbsee> jmg: factoids exist so you *can* give them out like that.
<Hobbsee> the ops use them most of all
<Hobbsee> i'd suspect that the op was saying "dont do that" to something else - like if the asker was repeating.
<ryanakca> why wont dh_make accept "aoeui-1.0_alpha5"?
<minghua> ryanakca: you can't have underscores in package name
<jikanter> Is it debootstrap that is version dependent or is it pbuilder? or both?
<ryanakca> minghua: ah, so, I remake the .tar.gz?
<minghua> ryanakca: no need to remake, just rename it
<minghua> ryanakca: you already need to rename it to .orig.tar.gz anyway
<crimsun> "I usually use Gnome but decided to give KDE a belt. The crash happened before I did anything."
<crimsun> ...but you _did_ do something.
<Burgundavia> crimsun: where is that from?
<crimsun> #117103
<Burgundavia> wow -- > http://www.devside.net/blog/
<crimsun> mmkay, someone appears to love black helicopters.
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> check out the comments
<TheMuso> Anybody noticed that linux-image-generic has not yet been updated for x86, yet for other arches, at least powerpc, it is updated, and brings in the new kernel?
<crimsun> are you referring to feisty or gutsy?
<TheMuso> crimsun: Feisty.
<Burgundavia> http://www.devside.net/ <-- hmm, this guy might have a vested interest in not having Ubuntu suceed
<TheMuso> Whats interesting, is that it successfully built, but on the package version page, only the binaries for all arches other than amd64/x86 seem to be there
<crimsun> TheMuso: that's because neither i386 nor amd64 have built.
<crimsun> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/2.6.20.16.28
<crimsun> both arches are listed as "Needs building"
<TheMuso> Hmm ok. Must have missed that.
<nixternal> Burgundavia: it is just to get hits..if you look at everyone of his posts, there aren't any comments...he posts anti-ubuntu fud and now he gets comments and hits
<nixternal> and then says "I do everything in the world to promote GNU/Linux"...ya spreading fud != GNU/Linux advocation
<jussi01> good morning motu's!
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<nixternal> I would violate the CoC to punch him in the nose, and then toss him a Windows Vista CD to clean up with
<crimsun> hah, toldya he has a Vista CD.
<nixternal> damnit
<nixternal> I knew I was going to get that
<crimsun> :-D
<Burgundavia> nixternal: there is a the scarier conclusion: he might actually believe it
<nixternal> Burgundavia: see, I know he is phoney from one line...
<nixternal> "Ive been a Linux user since the Slackware days. Ive supported GNU/Linux."
<nixternal> wtf were the "Slackware days"?
<nixternal> people who suck at Linux, always say they have been using Linux since the "slackware days"
<nixternal> they think because they used slackware, they are super 1337
<crimsun> hey now, I resemble that comment
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> same here crimsun
<Burgundavia> I never used linux before 2003
<nixternal> I started with LFS as I only had enough CDs for the kernel
<nixternal> err, floppies
<Burgundavia> I have never compiled my own kernel, nor ever wanted to
<nixternal> I got started in 1995 as we had super fast Internet in the military and a ton of floppies
<nixternal> Burgundavia: kernel compilation is pretty easy nowadays
<nixternal> ask imbrandon, I was doing it up until about 6 or so months ago with Kubuntu
<Burgundavia> you miss my point
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: never?
<nixternal> then I got sick of breaking stuff with updates, so I just gave up
<Burgundavia> I don't want to
<nixternal> sure you do
* jussi01 tickles TheMuso
<Burgundavia> crimsun and all the wonderful kernel people do a wonderful job
<nixternal> hehe, true that
<LaserJock> I haven't built a kernel since moving to Ubuntu
<nixternal> hold on, let me translate that into Chicagoan
<nixternal> tru'dat
<crimsun> actually I just drink a lot of tea, but yeah, the rest of the kernel team does a great job.
<LaserJock> but I ran Gentoo for a while so ..
<Burgundavia> some of even paid for their wonderful work
<nixternal> I have yet to really try Gentoo
<Burgundavia> much like I never compile GNOME
<nixternal> I saw their KDE implementation at a LUG event and didn't like it
<Burgundavia> it is ironic that at nearly every event, the most professional booth is run by Gentoo
<Burgundavia> they have done community right for a long time
<nixternal> I noticed that last year at barcamp
<nixternal> but it seems all of their Chicago users are now in Ubuntu Chicago
<nixternal> some of Ubuntu Chicago and the Chicago GLUG have created a GNOME users group
<Burgundavia> our LUG hasn't met in 3 months
<Burgundavia> given I am VP of it, I guess I should do somethign
<nixternal> Chicago GLUG does it all..LUG, LISPUG, PerlUG, PyUG, GNOMEUG
<jussi01> if someone has time.... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5279 (mnemosyne) I would appreciate it. :D
<nixternal> hehe, I am VP of CoDLUG, and we meet monthly, otherwise I would have about 10 old guys wanting to kill me for taking away from their geek time away from their wives
<Burgundavia> jussi01: shush you, we are kibbitzing
<nixternal> it was pretty cool today...I met up with that DD in Chicago...he has been a DD since like 95...he was like the 40 something DD back then...dude reminds me of crimsun, just knows everything *nix
<jussi01> lol
<nixternal> heh, superm1 lives right up the road from me ey
<nixternal> how come you aren't in Ubuntu Chicago? :)
<nixternal> superm1: when you are in Chicago and have some free time, I know I have a group of people who would be interested in a MythTV talk/tutorial/sprint
<jussi01> ok, did I kill the discussion?
<jussi01> :(
<nixternal> you sure did
<nixternal> but you just might spark it back up :)
<jussi01> I dont beleive _everyone_ is reviewing my package....
<jussi01> its not _that_ special....
<jussi01> :P
<jussi01> nixternal: anything fun happening? got any cool news?
<nixternal> getting ready to head to bed..that is about it
<nixternal> how about yourself?
<jussi01> heh, I just got up... sunday morning here
<nixternal> UK'n it ey
<nixternal> nah
<nixternal> a little further east
<jussi01> dont ask me why im up at 9.15  am on sunday
<jussi01> nixternal: finland :D
<nixternal> ahha
<nixternal> good nights sleep ahead of me :)
<jussi01> but Im an aussie...
<jussi01> :D
<nixternal> 1:15am == bed time ;)
<nixternal> g'nite all, and make sure you finish all merges by the time I wake up
<nixternal> ;p
<elkbuntu> g'nite nixternal
<jussi01> night nixternal
<vijay2000> can anybody tell where i am wrong in this http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22652/
<vijay2000> anybody there
<jmg> please wait
<vijay2000> ok
<imbrandon> vijay2000, looks just what it says , failure to apply a patch 
<imbrandon> Trying patch debian/patches/remove-first_run-from-clamtk.patch at level 0...1...2...failure.
<imbrandon> ^^ from that log
<persia> vijay2000: Your patch doesn't apply cleanly.  You'll need to fix that.  Try running `debian/rules reverse-config` in the unpacked source to look at the error messages (likely in debian/patches/ or debian/patched/)
<jussi01> hello persia imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya jussi01 
<persia> jussi01: Hi.  I suppose I should look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5279 :)
<jussi01> persia: yeah, that would be nice :D
* jussi01 hopes for good things...
<jussi01> :D
<vijay2000> how to get the source code of gutsy
<jussi01> all of it?
<jussi01> o.O
<jussi01> or just for that one program?
<vijay2000> one program
<jussi01> vijay2000: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=clamtk&version=gutsy&arch=all
<vijay2000> this is what i get when i do a reverse config http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22653/
<jussi01> is that what you are after?
<vijay2000> i was asked by my mentor to go through the source code of gutsy
<rgl> how do I mark my change as NMU?
<vijay2000> no i am after the clamtk code in gutsy
<lfittl> rgl, ignore that warning, NMU policy does not apply to ubuntu
<jussi01> rgl: I dont thenk you have to
<jussi01> heh
<rgl> ah OK. 
<vijay2000> what you mean by LP
<rgl> but anyways, how would I do it debian? :D
<jmg> lanchpad
<vijay2000> i think that was a stupid question from me 
<jmg> indeed
<lfittl> rgl, as far as I remember, by changing the version number to e.g. 0.5.0-1.1 (you simply add the .x part at the end, or increment it if there was a previous NMU)
<lfittl> and then you have to upload that one to the DELAYED queue IMHO, but I am sure that is written down somewhere on the web
<persia> rgl: You also need the appropriate NMU syntax in the changelog, but you probably shouldn't NMU a debian package without speaking to people in Debian at length first.
<rgl> I see.  thx :)
<lfittl> rgl, http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-nmu
<rgl> sweet, thx :)
<vijay2000> persia: reverse config i get this message http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22653/
<persia> vijay2000: Sorry.  It's annoyingly difficult for me to get to that URL right now :)  Please wait.
<vijay2000> ok sure i shall wait no prob :)
<persia> vijay2000: That's odd.  Looking at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22652/, the last debian/rules rule called appears to be reverse-config.  Essentially, what you want to do it call whichever rule is patching your sources so you can look at the failure and fix the patch.
<vijay2000> i dont get you
<imbrandon> hrm 
<persia> If anyone wants a small project, the vcf package imported from debian is a replacement for the vcf-plugins package previously in Ubuntu, and so needs to conflict/replace appropriately.  I'd be happy to help if you have questions.
<persia> vijay2000: OK.  In your debian/rules file, you have a list of rules.  One of these patches the source, and that is trying to apply the patch that fails.  If you call the correct rule, the output of the filaures will be available in your source tree, and you can easily review the failure to determine how the patch must be modified.
<superm1> nixternal, how'd you know I was from Chicagoland?
<superm1> oh behindmotu :)
<\sh> congrats superm1 
<superm1> on?
<\sh> for being a star now ,)
<superm1> hehe
<imbrandon> anyone seen esr on irc lately ?
<superm1> ooh. i didn't even realize behindmotu was added to ubuntu planet.  I must be a star now :)
* \sh is more a black sheep then a white start ;)
<\sh> moins ogra 
<TheMuso> Is there a perl equivalent to sh -x?
<Hobbsee> hey all
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<\sh> TheMuso, perl -W ?
<TheMuso> \sh: Possibly, thanks.
<\sh> TheMuso, wait, you want to see the source lines, when your script is running, right? -W is more "display all warnings"
<geser> what about the perl debugger (-d)?
<\sh> TheMuso, something like this is not available for perl, afaik
<\sh> geser, could go, but not the same behaviour as sh -x ;)
* \sh needs another cup of tea, and a cigarette and wait for his blog to be hit from niminy-piminy people ... *run*
<imbrandon> mmm mtdew and cigarettes
<imbrandon> :)
<Hobbsee> icky.
<jmg> gross.
<jmg> cigarettes arent cool
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: together?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, always :)
<Hobbsee> ick
* jmg confiscates imbrandon's cigarette and replaces with a joint
<persia> imbrandon: Remember to crush and soak your cigarettes for at least two days in the mtdew to ensure the flavor is mixed appropriately.
<Hobbsee> just dont smoke them anywhere near me, and it's all good.
<Hobbsee> poor tonio_ learned this the hard way
* \sh is against joints.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, you seen my work area, never missing the mt dew or smokes :) http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/new_workzone.jpg
<Hobbsee> haha, true that
<Hobbsee> the fridge is too far away though
<imbrandon> me,tonio,ken and BenC spent most of the time at uds-mtv outside on the laptops smoking
<\sh> Hobbsee, tonio_ is a frenchman, so he is born with a cigarette  ,-)
<jmg> looks smelly
<\sh> imbrandon, so you did an outside smoking bof ,-)
<imbrandon> \sh, daily :)
<Hobbsee> \sh: this is true.  the poor guy couldnt light up without me coughing for most of the week.  i think it got to him on the first night.
<\sh> imbrandon, btw...did you play texas holdem with benC? ,-)
<imbrandon> \sh, yea, a few of the nights i did
<Hobbsee> ah yes, they were doing that one night in sevilla
<imbrandon> \sh, mostly after the bar :)
<Lutin> imbrandon: heh, looks like vista :)
<imbrandon> and trying chip tricks
* \sh will do it the next time, when he's going to an UDS
<imbrandon> Lutin, its a kde skin, i'm running gnome atm
<persia> TheMuso: Try perl -d:Trace.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon's taking after nixternal, with pointy-clicky vista?  oh no!!!
<Hobbsee> crimsun, we've got another traitor!
<imbrandon> nah
<Lutin> imbrandon: :)
* \sh needs to buy an iPod now...let's check ebay
<imbrandon> i have a new keyboard though now, that pic is a few weeks old
* \sh realised this night, that he forgot all his perl knowledge since he is coding in python 
<persia> jussi01: My build system seems to have found a corner to die in, but I've put a few comments up.  I'll take another look after I finish rebuilding things.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> you should build circular rooms!
<persia> Hobbsee: That would make it easier to find the mess, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't help with life expectancy.  Besides, I prefer to respect the privacy of my build system.
<Hobbsee> ahhh...
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<\sh> moins DarkMageZ 
<\sh> aeh DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> \sh: Hello. :)
<Q-FUNK> hmm. Pidgin _is_ an improvement over Gaim.
<jussi01> persia: can you give me an example of how i call dh_desktop in a cdbs rules file? can I just pop it in at the end? or do I need more than that?
<\sh> Q-FUNK, it's not ;) it's unstable as ever ,)
<Q-FUNK> \sh: the UI makes more sense overall.  that the code is crap and that the UI still does stupid things like stealing focus is true, thoguh. :)
<\sh> Q-FUNK, the problem is not the ui, it's also not the code..it's the system...you need more updates to the plugins for the propietary IM systems
<persia> jussi01: http://pastebin.ca/513535 is the rule fragment I used in freqtweak.
<Q-FUNK> \sh: I suppose that separating e.g. msn support into its own library might help.
<jussi01> thanks persia :d
<\sh> Q-FUNK, it won't help, because you are depending on the msn protocol...and it's changing a lot..for users it's easier to have it on the server, just like jabber is doing it...
<Q-FUNK> \sh: yes it would help.  it can be maintianed separately.
<Q-FUNK> \sh: and yes, the UI has issues.  that old MSN UI has ot go.
* jussi01 pokes persia
<persia> jussi01: About?
<jussi01> persia: are you certain about the -dev part of python-all ? I was told yesterday to drop it....
<geser> jussi01: does it have python-modules which need to be compiled (gcc) for the specific python version?
<stijn_pol> Is Sebastien Bacher around?
<persia> jussi01: I was just following my memory of http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy which says "You will have to Build-Depend on "python-all-dev (>= 2.3.5-11)", but apparently I'm wrong, in that this is only required when you provide public extensions.  Sorry about that.
<persia> geser: No.  It's just a python program.
<geser> than python-all should be enough
<jussi01> ok, great! :D
<geser> stijn_pol: he's seb128 in #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-desktop but he isn't there right now.
<persia> geser: Thanks.
* persia reads python policy again.
* jussi01 is heading out to take the dog for a walk, see you all later
<Lutin> persia: reviewing mnemosyne ?
<persia> Lutin: Apparently badly :)
<Lutin> persia: lol. don't know if you've dais it already, but yesterday I noticed that the binary package was arch:any instead of all
<Lutin> err. said
<Lutin> humm no, still there. jussi01 : please read above :)
<persia> Lutin: Thanks for pointing that out.  I suspect jussi01 will update to "all" in the next upload :)
<persia> Are we supposed to have a contrib section?  If not, how should a package be moved from contrib to multiverse?  Is it just the control file, or does it require conspiracy with the archive admins?
<StevenK> persia: Don't touch control. Keep in mind the autosyncer rips from Debian main to Ubuntu universe.
<Lutin> persia: btw, I admit I'm a bit uncomfortable with all the modules being public, as as far as I can understand from the website, it's not designed to be used by other applications. don't know if that really matters or not. maybe not :)
<persia> StevenK: OK.  What about ifeffit?  It's the only contrib/ package I've seen (with only gutsy sources).
<StevenK> persia: If you're unsure, collar an -archive person in -devel.
<persia> Lutin: That doesn't sound good either :)  I'll take another look.  I should really learn python one of these days :)
<persia> StevenK: Thanks.  I'll ask about it during the week (CET).
<Lutin> persia: I can't even code one line in python
<StevenK> Lutin: #!/usr/bin/python
<StevenK> Lutin: There, you know one line.
<StevenK> Oh I know, "import os" :-P
<persia> Lutin: Ah.  I've patched python source (it's really readable), but don't know anything about it, which makes it hard to package / review packages using python.
<Lutin> StevenK: true :)
<Lutin> persia: yep. besides we the python policy is not that clear one some points
<Lutin> on*
<persia> Lutin: Nope :)
<Lutin> hmm..what's that kernel thing on -devel-discuss Oo
<geser> persia: I've filed a bug to get a "contrib" package moved from universe to multiverse. Let's see how it works out.
<StevenK> geser: Would you mind pasting the bug number?
<persia> geser: Which?
<geser> bug #116851
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116851 in sixpack "Move sixpack from universe to multiverse due to dependencies" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116851
<geser> sixpack depends on ifeffit which is in contrib in Debian and in multiverse in Ubuntu
<persia> geser: That looks like a real bug.  Mine is more an oddity in the imports - nothing should be "contrib".  I suspect yours should be processed fine.
<persia> geser: Odd.  I wonder why aptitude reports ifeffit in contrib: apt-cache madison says the right thing.
<RainCT> Hi
<persia> RainCT: Hi.
<bluekuja> persia, :)
<RainCT> persia: I did the debdiff for qt4-designer :), have you seen it?
<persia> RainCT: No, sorry.  Which bug?
<RainCT> persia: #117045 u don't need to look at it if you don't wan't (LaserJock, Fujitsu and geser already reviewed it)
<persia> RainCT: I'd be happy to look at it, but if those three have already reviewed it, it must be perfect by now :)
<persia> RainCT: Thanks a lot for taking the trouble to make a patch for it.
<RainCT> persia: np, happy that I can help
<RainCT> I've found another one without icon, but it has no debian/*.install file, can I edit the debian/rules instead?
<persia> RainCT: If there is a call to dh_install in debian/rules, you can add a install file.  If not, yes, you can put it in debian/rules.  It probably belongs in the install rule.
<RainCT> persia: yes, but it's commented
<persia> RainCT: The easiest thing is probably to uncomment it and use an install file then.
<RainCT> it's at bottom, after "# Build architecture-dependent files here." "binary-arch: build install" (many dh_* entries, dh_install is there)
<RainCT> is it correct there or should it be after install: build ?
<persia> RainCT: That's probably a fine place for it.
<RainCT> ok, should I let the Encoding=UTF-8 on the .desktop or remove that?
<persia> RainCT: Your choice.  Until someone (does last person to touch apply) updates desktop-file-validate, you'll get an error if you don't, and you'll violate the spec if you do.
<RainCT> how can I tell dch that gutsy exists? (it's showing a warning every time saying it doesn't)
<sacater> sorry to bother, but I have forgotten the source unpackaging code
<sacater> something like -x *.dsc
<sacater> cant remember it all though
<RainCT> sacater: dpkg-source -x *.dsc   i think
<persia> RainCT: dch -D gutsy -i
<sacater> RainCT: thats the one, thanks
<RainCT> persia: yes know that, but it says each time "dch warning: Recognised distributions are: [...] "
<persia> RainCT: dch is just trying to protect you.  You'd have to edit the program directly to fix it, and there's little help if you make a mistake :)
<RainCT> ok
<RainCT> debuild -S isn't working
<Hobbsee> !doesnt work
<ubotu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<RainCT> it says there are changes that can't be represented
<RainCT> Hobbsee: XDDD
<Hobbsee> you modified things outside the debian/ directory?
* Hobbsee loves that factoid...
<RainCT> no
<persia> RainCT: Did you include a binary file (.png)?
<RainCT> dpkg-source: cannot represent change to debian/flobopuyo.png: binary file contents changed
<RainCT> yes :p
* jussi01 comes back from walking the dog....
<jussi01> nice factoid Hobbsee :d
<Hobbsee> wasnt mine :)
<RainCT> (the .xpm looks _really_ ugly)
<persia> RainCT: You cannot use a binary file.  If you want to include a PNG file, it's best to send it upstream.  If you really want to put it in debian/, you need to uuencode it, and uudecode during the build.
<persia> RainCT: Gimp allows you to edit XPM.  You can make it as pretty as 8-bit 32x32 icons can be :)
<RainCT> persia: how can I do this?
<RainCT> (uuencode/uudecode)
<persia> RainCT: Make sure you have the sharutils package installed.  `man uuencode` (or uudecode) for usage instructions.  Put the uudecode statement in debian/rules previous to the installation commands (but in the same rule).
<RainCT> persia: where? after "install: build"?
<persia> RainCT: At this point, I actually need to know which package you're looking at.  There are some standard arrangements for debian/rules, but each package has idiosyncrasies.
<RainCT> persia: http://pastebin.ca/513728
<persia> RainCT: That's even better.  Thanks.
<persia> RainCT: For that rules file, I'd probably put it between lines 23 and 24, but there's also an argument for putting it exactly where you did.  It really depends on whether you consider the unpacking to be part of the package build or part of the package install.
<RainCT> persia: are .desktop files placed during build or install?
<persia> RainCT: They should be installed during install.  If you are generating them automatically (not preferred, much as converting from .png to .xpm automatically is not preferred), then it's generally build.
<RainCT> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flobopuyo/+bug/117156
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117156 in flobopuyo "Flobopuyo has no icon for the .desktop file" [Undecided,In progress]  
* jussi01 uploads a new version...
<persia> RainCT: jussi01Looking is queued :)
<RainCT> persia: and this means..? is he uploading the new version?
<jussi01> no... I meant of mnemosyne... to revu...just bad timing...
<jussi01> :P
<persia> RainCT: It means that I've added looking at it to my queue.  Should be a few minutes, but in the worst case as many as 15.
<jussi01> hehe
<jussi01> :D
<RainCT> ah ok :p
<bluekuja> if someone got a minute, please http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5294
<bluekuja> thanks
<RainCT> in what package is destkop-file-validate?
<Hobbsee> RainCT: usually you'll find it with dpkg -S <fileyouwanttofind>
<Fujitsu> !find desktop-file-validate
<ubotu> File desktop-file-validate found in desktop-file-utils
<Hobbsee> that too
<Hobbsee> which assumes the bot is alive
<Fujitsu> It sometimes is.
<persia> RainCT: http://pastebin.ca/513765
<RainCT> persia: 2. isn't it already there?
<persia> RainCT: Not in the debdiff :)  If it's in the package, then you don't need to change it.
<RainCT> 4. there is Icon=flobopuyo on the .desktop
<persia> RainCT: Also, none of those comments necessarily blocks the upload, they're just comments.  If you want to change, upload a new debdiff.  If you don't that works too.
<persia> RainCT: There is often also a debian/menu or debian/package.menu file, and it's nice to put icons there as well.  They end up in the Debian menu if you install (I think) xdg-utils.
<RainCT> ok
<RainCT> 5. there is no dirs file?
<persia> jussi01: It looks ok to me, but as I said before, I can't build anything right now.  I'll push it through the process as soon as I resolve that.
<persia> RainCT: Sorry.  I didn't look closely enough.  You'll want to add another mkdir line after line 40 of debian/rules for the pixmaps directory.
<RainCT> persia: like this one? mkdir -p  $(CURDIR)/debian/flobopuyo/usr/share/pixmaps
<persia> RainCT: Right.  As much as you can, you want to mirror the current style and commands of any debian/rules file you edit.
<RainCT> persia: 1. (debuild doesn't work without it)
<Hobbsee> whether our people actually do or not, when going for motu, is an interesting question
<Hobbsee> bah, wrong channel
<persia> RainCT: OK.  If your GPG key is set like that, you need to use the address :)
<RainCT> persia: uploaded
<persia> RainCT: And it's in the sponsorship queue.  If noone else hits it before I pass though this evening, I'll upload it.  Thanks again.
<RainCT> persia: ok, thank you
<RainCT> persia: is there any way I can make a .deb to try it?
<bmm> I've just uploaded another version of ccbuild http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5295 into REVU and I'm looking for either something to change or my first advocate. Thanks in advance!
<persia> RainCT: Look for the links to pbuilder or sbuild in the MOTU/Contributing doc in the topic.
<gnomefreak> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot will build debs 
<persia> That too, but it requires installing the build-deps locally, and doesn't always work when building gutsy debs on a feisty machine :)
<RainCT> persia: well, last time I tried to get a pbuilder environment it needed more than 4 hours and I ended aborting it... lol
<RainCT> how can I install the dependencies?
<gnomefreak> if using pbuilder it will grab them for you iirc
<persia> RainCT:   I had the same experience with pbuilder :)  I use sbuild.  It broke for me today, but it took me about 30 minutes to set up with the script on the page linked to from Contributing.  If the build-deps are available, you can install them with apt-get build-dep <packagename>
<persia> gnomefreak: Yes.  Either pbuilder or sbuild will automatically instlal the build-deps in a chroot and clean up when it's done.
<jussi01> persia: great. let me know if and when you get it done: thanks :D
<persia> jussi01: Sure.
<gnomefreak> .mk is a make file?
<persia> gnomefreak: usually
<gnomefreak> ty
<persia> gnomefreak: `file foo.mk` is a good way to make sure :)
<gnomefreak> ah good point :)
<pschulz01> evening.
<pschulz01> I (think) I have uploaded a brand new deb package to revu using dput.. not what? :-)
<pschulz01> now what?
<gnomefreak> go to revu and file it open it and give motus the link so they can review it
<gnomefreak> or give me a minute and ill see if i can find it
<pschulz01> libtprl
<pschulz01> Wahoo.. I have a password :-)
<gnomefreak> i dont see it there
<RainCT> persia: it isn't working
<persia> RainCT: which?
<gnomefreak> pschulz01: that is the source package name?
<pschulz01> gnomefreak: yep.
<afflux> anyone who wants me to do one/some of his merges?
<pschulz01> libtprl_0.1.2a-1.tar.gz 
<apachelogger> is there any script to fetch copyright and license from all files in $SRC?
<Hobbsee> afflux: any of daniel holbach's merges you can steal, iirc.
<pschulz01> gnomefreak: libtprl_0.1.2a-1.tar.gz 
<afflux> Hobbsee: okay, thanks. Is something wrong with him?
<gnomefreak> still dont see it. please give the link to that package on revu in here and ask if people can take a look at it
<Hobbsee> afflux: no - just busy
<afflux> Hobbsee: okay
<pschulz01> gnomefreak: I can't see it in the list either.. yet.. libtprl
<pschulz01> gnomefreak: I will keep looking.
<gnomefreak> pschulz01: maybe it hasnt gone through than
<gnomefreak> or been updated yet
<RainCT> persia: ok got it
<persia> RainCT: Great!
<gnomefreak> the config options for a browser (say firefox) when you type about:config  where would they be :(
<pschulz01> Do I ask questions here about how to fix lintian problems?
<pschulz01> (with my package)
<persia> pschulz01: Try lintian -iIv - that tends to give a lot of useful output.  Also try linda.  Detailed commands are in the Preparing Revisions section of MOTU/Contributing from the /topic.
<RainCT> persia: great, the .deb is working :)
<RainCT> persia: will I upload it or can only MOTU member generated debs go online?
<persia> RainCT: Great!  And now you also have a procedure for testing your fixes!  I suspect you'll catch a lot of the little things right away now.
<Hobbsee> (ubuntu accepts sources, not binaries)
<persia> RainCT: Only approved developers can upload.  You can check who needs to sponsor you with apt-cache madison packagename.  If it says universe, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.  If it says main, subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors.
<pschulz01> persia: Thanks.. 
<RainCT> persia: ok, universe is already subscribed
<persia> pschulz01: You're welcome, but what did I do now?
<pschulz01> persia: (General helpfulness)
<persia> RainCT: Then you're all set.  There's usually between 70 and 100 bugs in the queue, so sometimes it takes a little while, but you should receive feedback soon.
<pschulz01> persia: You're now on my list.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz
* persia hears strains of Gilbert & Sullivan, and hides
* pschulz01 sings - "Oh, he never will be missed..
<pschulz01> persia: You can come back now.
<pschulz01> persia: It's OK, really.
<RainCT> can someone confirm this bug please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-file-utils/+bug/117180
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117180 in desktop-file-utils "Encoding is deprecated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<persia> RainCT: Can you not confirm?  Consider joining the bugsquad.
<Hobbsee> not if he reported it
<RainCT> persia: yes I can :p
<persia> RainCT: Also, do you know C?  It's not a hard fix, and upstream would be happy to apply.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  I'm not thinking.
<RainCT> well, I found the lines where it is, but I don't know much about C (well, really I don't know C, but just a _little_ bit C++)
<persia> RainCT: OK.  No worries.  someone else will do it then.
<RainCT> I could try, but I thought that I'd would be better to let it for the developers
<RainCT> persia: well, if you mentor it I'll try ;P
<RainCT> but let me finish homework before lol
<persia> RainCT: OK.  Basically, we just want to disable the Encoding check by commenting it out.  If upstream wants to delete it, that's an upstream decision.  I'll be sleeping soon, so give it a shot when you're done with your homework, and email me the patch (not debdiff, just patch).
<gnomefreak> you would think with a file named all.js it would list all of the options :(
<afflux> If the .orig.tar.gz files are not the same within a merge, we need a fakesync, right?
<persia> afflux: Not always, sometimes you need a fake merge.
<afflux> uh, this sounds complicated.
<persia> afflux: More specifically, You do a fakesync when you want to use the Debian package, but you already have an orig.tar.gz in Ubuntu with the same version number (but different md5sum).
<persia> If it's not a fakesync (it usually isn't), just process the source directory like a standard merge, and make sure to use the Ubuntu orig.tar.gz when creating your .dsc file.  Upload the debdiff against the last Ubuntu version, and make sure to report that it's a debdiff against Ubuntu instead of a debdiff against Debian in the comment, and explain that you had to do that because the orig.tar.gz was different.
<afflux> okay, doesn't seem to be *that* complicated. I'll try.
<afflux> thanks persia 
<persia> afflux: Just to make sure, be sure to check the .dsc files for the last ubuntu revision and your candidate revision to verify that the md5sum of the orig.tar.gz is the same.
<afflux> persia: (maybe I've gotten you wrong), "cat *.dsc | grep tar.gz" in a directory created by "grab-merge.sh" from DaD gives me three different md5sums
<persia> afflux: Is it a new upstream version?
<afflux> yes, It's camorama 0.18-0ubuntu1 against 0.18-1
<afflux> errr, I took it from MoM
<persia> afflux: That's the same upstream version (0.18).  You probably got three different md5sums because MoM got confused (note that I don't understand MoM).  Make a scratch directory.  Put the sources for 0.18-0ubuntu1 in that directory.  Make another scratch directory.  Copy your target revision source directory into the new scratch directory.  Also copy the orig.tar.gz from 0.18-0ubuntu1 into that directory.  Build a source package.   Compare the .d
* persia is annoyed by buffers
<persia> Make another scratch directory.  Copy your target revision source directory into the new scratch directory.  Also copy the orig.tar.gz from 0.18-0ubuntu1 into that directory.  Build a source package.   Compare the .dsc files in the two source directories to make sure they have the same md6sum for orig.tar.gz
<afflux> oookay.
* jussi01 pops his head up: HI!!
<imbrandon> moins
<tsmithe> hi jussi01 
<jussi01> hello peoples
<jussi01> anything fun happening?
<ryanakca> is there an easy way to find the dependencies of a text editor? I think all that's needed for http://aoeui.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/aoeui/ is gcc...
* tsmithe is learning about coding python for the web with cherrypy
<tsmithe> i find that interesting
* jussi01 pokes the nearest motu with some spare time... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5293 (mnemosyne)
<jussi01> if a motu with spare time actually exists that is...
<jussi01> :D
<ryanakca> lol
* Hobbsee makes StevenK do it.
<StevenK> I think the matchsticks holding my eyes open have just snapped. So no.
<jussi01> hehe
<ryanakca> get more matchsticks ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> or toothpicks
<Hobbsee> they make good weapons1
* jussi01 goes to make sure his wife doesnt ill him for camping in front of the pc... back in a little while....
<ryanakca> or, a prod from that pointy stick might wake you up
<StevenK> Ouch, toothpicks have points.
<Hobbsee> exactly
<jussi01> s/ill/kill
<jussi01> bbl
<ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5299 please
<ryanakca> (aoeui, a Dvorak optimized text editor
<ryanakca> )
<Kano64> hi, 915resultions need a tiny update for g33 pci id
<Kano64> glxinfo kills x however on 64 bit, thats not normal...
<Kano64> anybody awake
<Hobbsee> white: ^
* jussi01 is back :D
<ryanakca> wb
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: hey, have I ever told you that you're a wonderful MOTU? of course, And I really like the finish on that pointy stick of yours... <insert another paragraph of buttering Hobbsee up>, feel like reviewing aoeui ?
* ryanakca ducks
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: haha
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: and i thougth you were serious for a min, there
<ryanakca> lol
<ryanakca> well, you're a better MOTU than I am... :P
<jekil> hello
<Seveas> imbrandon, you around?
<afflux> A package using gdk-pixbuf-csource fails to build ("Couldn't recognize the image file format for file '../pixmaps/camorama-webcam-16.png'", it is missung the /etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders file). Would it be okay to put a "gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders > /etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders" before the call of gdk-pixbuf-csource?
<imbrandon> Seveas, pong
<imbrandon> for a few minuts
<imbrandon> minutes*
<imbrandon> then going to the store then i'll be here all night
<imbrandon>  wasup?
<Seveas> http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/falcon2/ 
<Seveas> exporting works!
<imbrandon> woot
<Seveas> (style still sucks)
<Seveas> fixing mirror handling now, then loads of random bugfixes
<imbrandon> very sweet
<Seveas> still on track for release tomorrow :)
<imbrandon> hell yea
<imbrandon> thats when i planed on setting up the new ubuntustudio.org archive so thats perfect
<imbrandon> i have th websites moved to my server but not the archive yet
<imbrandon> templates looks alot bettr
<geser> afflux: shouldn't a B-D on libgtk2.0-bin do it?
<afflux> geser: It didn't to it for me, at least.
<geser> because it looks like that file should be created by the postinst from libgtk2.0-bin
<afflux> I just added "ls -l /etc/gtk-2.0" to the post-configure rule and I get "ls: /etc/gtk-2.0: No such file or directory"
<Hobbsee> libgtk2.0-bin is an odd build-dep
<Hobbsee> whatever happened to the -dev package?
<afflux> libgtk2.0-dev is in the build-deps too, still doesn't work.
<Hobbsee> ah
<geser> afflux: I guess what you suggest won't work as the build is done usually as non-root and only the clean, install and binary targets are run as root (or fakeroot)
<afflux> geser: yes, that's why I asked. Any different suggestions?
<geser> I've found: rm -v -f /etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders in libgtk2.0-0.postinst (gutsy)
<afflux> This is not exactly what I expected...
<geser> # versions prior to 2.10.1-1 used the 2.4.0 binary version and generated module
<geser> # files below /etc/gtk-2.0 which will we can not leave behind (since they
<geser> # reference modules not on the system anymore)
<afflux> I think I don't really understand what this means.
<geser> that's the comment before the rm call
<afflux> Err, shouldn't this be in the postrm?
<geser> if I read it correctly this happens on upgrades
<geser> I'd say you should ask some one more familiar with the gtk packages like seb128
<stijn_pol> geser, afflux!
<stijn_pol> I talked seb128 about a GTK problem with gdk-pixbuf.loaders today
<stijn_pol> Is the problem situated in Gutsy?
<afflux> yes
<stijn_pol> Because the new GTK package doesn't use /etc/gtk-2.0 anymore
<stijn_pol> I filed a bug because I had problem with opening image files
<stijn_pol> Het confirmed that there was a bug but I can't give more details about that...
<stijn_pol> He*
<afflux> okay, so I'll wait with this merge...
<afflux> can you give me the bug number?
<stijn_pol> bug 117065 but I actually talked to him on IRC, the bug report isn't clear enough
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117065 in gtk+2.0 "Missing /etc/gtk-2.0/ directory" [Medium,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117065
<afflux> okay. thank you!
<stijn_pol> I hope it helps
<zorglu_> any news about the cnr stuff ? any status ?
<RainCT> I'm trying to debuild a package but it says dpkg-source: warning: can't parse dependency libasound2-dev [] 
<RainCT> what's the problem
<RainCT> ?
<dothebart> how does the actual line in debian/control look like?
<RainCT> dothebart: Source: dosbox
<RainCT> Section: otherosfs
<RainCT> Priority: optional
<RainCT> Maintainer: Peter Veenstra <spiru@fmf.nl>
<RainCT> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), libsdl1.2-dev , libpng12-dev, libsdl-net1.2-dev, libsdl-sound1.2-dev, libasound2-dev [] , type-handling (>= 0.2.1)
<RainCT> Standards-Version: 3.7.2
<RainCT> Package: dosbox
<RainCT> Architecture: any
<RainCT> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
<RainCT> Description: A x86 emulator with Tandy/Herc/CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA graphics, sound and DOS
<RainCT>  Dosbox is a x86 emulator with Tandy/Hercules/CGA/EGA/VGA/SVGA graphics, 
<RainCT>  sound and DOS. It's been designed to run old DOS-games under platforms that 
<RainCT>  don't support it. (Win2k/XP/FreeBSD/Linux/MAC OS X)
<RainCT>  .
<RainCT>  The following legacy sound devices are emulated: PC Speaker, Creative
<RainCT>  CMS/Gameblaster, Tandy 3 voice, Adlib, Sound Blaster Pro/16, 
<RainCT>  Disney Soundsource and a Gravis Ultrasound. MPU-401 is forwarded to the host.
<RainCT>  .
<RainCT>  Homepage: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/
<PriceChild> !paste > RainCT 
<dothebart> the build-depends would have been enough.
<RainCT> sh*t, wanted to paste http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22724/plain/ :P
<dothebart> what should []  mean?
<RainCT> PriceChild: yes I know, read my last message :P
<RainCT> dothebart: dunno, that was already there
<zorglu_> [20:40]  <RainCT> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} <- this one ?
<zorglu_> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 4.0.0), libsdl1.2-dev , libpng12-dev, libsdl-net1.2-dev, libsdl-sound1.2-dev, libasound2-dev [] , type-handling (>= 0.2.1) <- or this one ?
<zorglu_> the second one i guess
<dothebart> yes. i think the braces in that line are wrong?
<RainCT> how can I delete them? if I run debuild it puts them there again :S
<RainCT> there is also a control.in file where it says libasound2-dev [@linux-gnu@] 
<zorglu_> i bet linux-gnu is not defined :)
<RainCT> that's the only difference between the two files, should I just delete the .in file or what?
<zorglu_> so i would say there is a 'bug' in the orig package
<zorglu_> say=wild guessing :)
<dothebart> you're using cdbs?
<RainCT> dothebart: uhm.. i've it installed but I've no idea what it is :p
<geser> RainCT: install type-handling
<geser> this will replace @linux-gnu@ with the right content
<RainCT> geser: ok, now it worked. thanks
<RainCT> Can someone check this please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dosbox/+bug/48292
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48292 in dosbox "Doesn't have a .desktop file" [Wishlist,In progress]  
<bashelier> bug ##117232
<bashelier> bug #117232
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117232 in vlc "VLC just don't run my .3gp videos" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117232
<bashelier> the 3gp format needs the amr format which is non-free, then should the bug be rejected ?
<PhinnFort> what provides the "Xi" library?
<PhinnFort> ld complains when trying to compile Tux, A Quest for Herring: "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXi"
<geser> PhinnFort: libxi6
<PhinnFort> thanks
<sharms> Burgwork: thanks for the link
<PhinnFort> libxi-dev, actually, but thanks anyway;)
<joejaxx> Good Evening All
<joejaxx> :)
<geser> Hi joejaxx
<RainCT> dpkg-buildpackage says cdrom.h:20:23: error: SDL_sound.h: No such file or directory but sdl-soundx.x is installed
<nixternal> you DDs undercover that I have worked with, I have finished my NM app and if you want to help advocate, my app info if => https://nm.debian.org/nmadvocate.php?email=nixternal%40ubuntu.com
* tsmithe would like an undercover DD to sponsor wired for him
<ryanakca> can a MOTU look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5299 please
<ryanakca> (aoeui, a Dvorak optimized text editor)
<sacater> how do I ban an IP in irc
<joejaxx> sacater: if you are op'd?
<sacater> joejaxx: i have ops in the channel, so yeah
<joejaxx>  /mode +b *!*@ip.ad.dre.ss
<joejaxx> or is it has for example rr.rruner.com at the end
<joejaxx>  /mode +b *!*@ip.ad.dre.ss*
<joejaxx> i guess the second is just easier
<joejaxx> looks like usb automounting is broken in gutsy
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> I've written a python app
<cbx33> but I've kinda lost track of all the python modules i've used
<cbx33> any easy way to determine them?
<cbx33> i don't know which are built in and which are added on
<tsmithe> what exactly are you asking?
<cbx33> hehe
* tsmithe is confused
<cbx33> well I'm trying to build the package
<cbx33> so i need the deps
<tsmithe> couldn't you `grep import *.py`?
<tsmithe> couldn't you `grep -Hirn import *.py`?
<tsmithe> even
<cbx33> but some of them are built in
<tsmithe> mmhmm
<cbx33> how do i determine which is which
<tsmithe> apt-cache?
<tsmithe> :P
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> ok
* tsmithe has never come across this situation
<cbx33> hehe
<tsmithe> talking of python. wanna see my recent application?
<cbx33> yeh sure
* tsmithe is rather proud of the day's work
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> sure
* cbx33 is just packaging vcsfrenzy
<tsmithe> http://tibsplace.co.uk/search searches an index of blogs. i wanna improve the algorithm, and the indexer isn't parallel, and i want to have the results displayed in 2d, rather than linear, but it's a start
<cbx33> :( adding a feed failed
<cbx33> is that right
<tsmithe> well no
<tsmithe> i'll see server-side
<cbx33> Adding feed at http://progbox.co.uk/wordpress failed
<tsmithe> E(Crawler): Feed error 301
<cbx33> does it need to be an RSS?
<tsmithe> are you sure the url is right?
<tsmithe> yea
<tsmithe> or atom
<cbx33> ahh hang on
<tsmithe> :)
<cbx33> trying again
<cbx33> w00t
<tsmithe> woo
<tsmithe> it worked :)
* tsmithe indexes it
<tsmithe> the search is rather simple word-for-word matching
<cbx33> ok
<tsmithe> in a sec, it will have finished indexing. i really should make it parallel
<cbx33> you indexed me yet?
<tsmithe> nope :P
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> now search for it :)
<cbx33> explain what you mean by make it parallel?
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> it works
<tsmithe> well, it indexes two or more at once, instead of one by one
<tsmithe> which is slower
<cbx33> ahhh
<tsmithe> but, i really enjoy web programming in python
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> you using apache?
<tsmithe> (and i really want bug 57067 fixed_
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57067 in python-mysqldb "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode certain bytes " [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57067
<tsmithe> nope, lighttp
<tsmithe> d
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> awesome
<tsmithe> with cherrypy and paste for wsgi
<cbx33> I was looking for someone who was doing that
<cbx33> cherrypyp
<cbx33> ?
<tsmithe> but because of that bug, it's using sqlite :S
<cbx33> ahhh
<tsmithe> cherrypy, ja
<cbx33> i tried getting lighttpd working
<cbx33> with python
<cbx33> but I couldn't 
<tsmithe> it's quite nice
<tsmithe> oh 
<tsmithe> it took me a couple of hours to figure out
<tsmithe> want my config?
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> sure
<tsmithe> k then
<cbx33> tsmithe, you rock
<tsmithe> :P
<tsmithe> of course
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22753/
<tsmithe> want to see the relevant parts of my code?
<cbx33> if they're open source
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> i was trying to use the fcgi
<tsmithe> cbx33, ah no
<tsmithe> that's a pita
<cbx33> yeh
<tsmithe> i used scgi
<cbx33> i saw it in a tutorial
<tsmithe> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22755/
<cbx33> lemme try
<tsmithe> same :)
<shawarma> fcgi is easy.
<shawarma> What's the problem?
<cbx33> the second file tsmithe where did it go?
<shawarma> (from the lighttpd perspective, that is)
<cbx33> shawarma, can't remember.......i exited with error code 9
<tsmithe> cbx33, well, it's an executable python script
<tsmithe> shawarma, whatever it is, scgi is easier :)
<tsmithe> cbx33, so i put it in the path described by server.document-root
<tsmithe> and execute it
<cbx33> ok
<tsmithe> then you can pass requests to the server
<shawarma> tsmithe: Possibly. :)
<cbx33> heheh
<tsmithe> definitely :P
<cbx33> from paste.util.scgiserver import serve_application
<tsmithe> you need python-paste
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<cbx33> what's that for?
<tsmithe> the serving
<tsmithe> wsgi glue
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33>     cherrypy.engine.start(blocking=False)
<cbx33> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'engine'
<tsmithe> oops
<tsmithe> you need python-cherrypy3
<tsmithe> it's far nicer
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> where do i get that
<cbx33> it's not in feisty
<tsmithe> erm the repos?
<tsmithe> i'm on gutsy...
<cbx33> poop
<cbx33> already
<tsmithe> uhuh
<tsmithe> dunno how to do it with 2
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ahh well
<tsmithe> just prevu it, or download the deb from the repo anyway
<tsmithe> i'm sure it will work!
<cbx33> heheh
<tsmithe> cbx33, any luck?
<cbx33> nope
* cbx33 got distracted
<cbx33> heheh
<tsmithe> hehe
<tsmithe> heh who's searching for brandon :P
<imbrandon> tsmithe, heh i did, you know google api does that right ?
<tsmithe> imbrandon, shush
<imbrandon> heh
<tsmithe> i don't have the sources to tinker with :)
<tsmithe> and it's not specific to feedparser-able feeds
<tsmithe> and why would i want to use that, anyway? :P
<imbrandon> google api is kinda nice :) i've been playing with it at beta.ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> and they have a google blog search api too
<imbrandon> along with countless other things
<tsmithe> the google blog tool is crappy
<tsmithe> the results are all wrong
<tsmithe> that's why i'm doing this, so i can tinker to see how to get better results
<imbrandon> depends on how you configure it
<tsmithe> (and present it better, as well)
<tsmithe> oh configure, i see
<imbrandon> i get great resules
<tsmithe> but still, i like what i'm doing :)
<imbrandon> and umm thats the thing with api you present it how you want :)_
<tsmithe> shuddup!!!
<imbrandon> hehe anyhow have fun, was just pointing it out to you
<tsmithe> yes yes - i knew about it - i wanted to play with wsgi as well ;)
<imbrandon> wsgi ?
<tsmithe> python web glue infrastructure thingy
<tsmithe> i didn't write the code, so that's the best description i can give
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> lighttpd + python + php + javascript ftw :)
<tsmithe> *nods*
<tsmithe> i really like lighttpd
<imbrandon> so do i , took the load of digg when ubuntustudio.org got dugg with only 0.03 load on the server 
<tsmithe> wow that's very very nice
<imbrandon> i was pushing over 89MB/s for 4 days streight
<tsmithe> awh cool i wish i had that kind of bandwidth usage
<imbrandon> helps when you work in a datacenter :)
<tsmithe> yes yes :P
<tsmithe> you don't need to boast!
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i guess i'm gonna go play with that api some more, you sparked my intrest again
<imbrandon> hadent messed with it in a few days
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> imbrandon, wanna fix bug 57067 for me?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57067 in python-mysqldb "UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode certain bytes " [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57067
<imbrandon> says fix released
<tsmithe> it's wrong
<tsmithe> look at my comment
<tsmithe> i didn't want to change it tho
<imbrandon> no idea
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<cbx33> hey all
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Would having to fix a package to create it's /var/run directory be considered a stable release update?
<shawarma> Hi, TheMuso
<shawarma> TheMuso: which package?
<TheMuso> i.e in its init script, create /var/run/whatever if needed?
<TheMuso> shawarma: distmp3 uses /var/run/distmp3 for its pidfile, which doesn't get created due to /var/run being tmpfs.
<TheMuso> So the distmp3host daemon doesn't start because of that dir not being there.
<cbx33> imbrandon, that's insane amounts of bandwidth
<imbrandon> cbx33, :)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> gah
<geser> TheMuso: I'd say yes but how to you get the required testers for the SRU?
<TheMuso> geser: True.
<RainCT> good night
<imbrandon> shawarma, perm fixed now, /shouldent/ be any more problesm with it
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-19
<imbrandon> ugh
<imbrandon> ok i'm pulling my hair out here , this ( http://imbrandon.pastebin.com/d7d1bdc64 ) fires if its null or "" but not "num" , am i just an idiot or what , seems always to reach the else if its "num"
<Flannel> imbrandon: this is Java?
<ajmitch> imbrandon: getPage.equals('num')
<ajmitch> java does string comparisons in a funny way
<Flannel> isnull might also be more robust (and maybe isempty?  I don't remember)
<ajmitch> it's been a long time (probably not long enough) since I touched java
<imbrandon> yea java ( JSP ) on tomcat
<jdong> ajmitch: java does comparisons in a funny way in general :)
<jdong> == is pointer (reference) equality, Object.equals() is the equality most people think of...
<jdong> unfortunately Java does allow two unique strings with same contents to be constructed even though strings are immutable types
<imbrandon> ahh cool , thnaks guys
 * imbrandon tries it
 * imbrandon is converting some old old old php+mysql to java+mysql
<jdong> imbrandon: your construction on line 6 also seems to beg SQL injection
<sladen> I suspect it's that string comparison...
<imbrandon> yea it will get cleaned up, i simplified it for pastebin
<jdong> ok, just makin sure :)
<sladen> try  "" == ""   and  "num" == "num"  and see what you get
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I have to ask, why java for this?
<jdong> haha, why not? (tm)
<sladen> then try again with   "".compareTo("")  and  "num".compareTo("num")
<ajmitch> jdong: I'd expect that from you :)
<sladen> or if you just want plain equality  "".equals("")  and  "num".equals("num")
<imbrandon> ajmitch: because we use java and c# mostly at work, so i picked the one i could run reliably on linux ( yes yes i know apache + libmono )
<jdong> yeah if those were your options I'd trust Java more at this point....
<imbrandon> most of our "old" stuff is php and its getting converted to java/jsp + WebSphereâ¢ ( ugh, did i mention i hate WebSphere )
<sladen> think C here;  and what happens if you do  if("" == "")  and  if("num" == "num") ... you're doing pointer evaluation and the same is happening in Java
<imbrandon> sladen: ahh
<imbrandon> so should my "" and null also be .equals("") / .equals(null) ?
<jdong> sladen: only thing confusing is most other high-level languages with an immutable string type automatically intern strings such that in this case pointer equality <==> content equality
<imbrandon> hrm
<jdong> imbrandon: comparing to another string should be with .equals
<jdong> imbrandon: comparing to null can be either
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> one other strange thing i noticed too, maybe someoen can explain WHY , if ( getPage.equals("") || getPage == null )  <--- bombs on null , but reversed if ( getPage == null || getPage.equals("") ) works on both
<sladen> however, in C, it'd have to be  ==
<jdong> imbrandon: short circuit evaluation
<imbrandon> huh?
<jdong> imbrandon: in an or statement, the 2nd term is only evaluated if the first is false
<jdong> imbrandon: so the 2nd version implies getpage != null when the getpage.equals is evaluated
<imbrandon> but if its null .equals("") is false
<jdong> imbrandon: null has no .equals
<imbrandon> arg, ok
<jdong> imbrandon: . dereferences null which is an exception
<sladen> so you want:  if (getPage == null || getPage.equals("") || getPage.equals("num"))
<imbrandon> yup yup
<imbrandon> killer thanks guys , i spent an hour on google pulling my hair out
<imbrandon> lol
 * ajmitch just looked up 'java string equality' to find it :)
<imbrandon> null  / "" / 0 , is so diffrent in diffrent langs
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> but that's because I knew what to look for
 * ajmitch is having *so* much fun trying to track down why a certain php page causes apache's memory usage to explode
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> the last major conversion we did at work ( finished last week ) was ASP 3.x pages + MSSQL to JAVA/JSP + WebSphere + IBM Httpd + Oracle  ( http://www.ford.ca ) now, THAT was fun fun fun
<sladen> that query could be simplified if you have RLIKE "[0-9]*"
<imbrandon> hrm not sure, its com.mysql.jdbc
 * imbrandon looks
<sladen> but you *so* want to validate/escape getPage before inserting it
<imbrandon> hahah definately
<imbrandon> actualy its on a read only copy of the db , but still good to validate
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> s/good/necessary/
<sladen>   ....something.php?getPage=;DROP+ALL;%23
<sladen>   ....something.php?getPage=";DROP+ALL;%23
<sladen>   ....something.php?getPage=";DROP+ALL;--
<imbrandon> ...something.jsp?.... :)
<sladen> yer gotcha me there
<imbrandon> readonly makes it much faster anyhow in production
<ajmitch> just because it's on a read-only DB now, doesn't mean that it will be in the future, or that code won't be reusued by someone
<imbrandon> true
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> hrm rlike seems WAY slow sladen
<sladen> what about  '^[0-9]'
<sladen> otherwise, you're stuck with your faster, but less maintainable ten comparisions
<sladen> no
<sladen> oops (scrollback was on)
<imbrandon> yea rlike '^[0-9] is much better
<emgent`UDS> heya
<\sh> moins
<geser> Hi \sh
<emgent> heya \sh geser
<geser> Hi emgent
<\sh> btw...happy UDS starting day....I think the time is still 9am SHARP? ,-)
<\sh> emgent, you are in praque now?
<emgent> yep
<emgent> conference will be start at 9 am
<\sh> emgent, great :) and you met already some of the crazy people there?
<emgent> now we are to wireless lan space :P
<emgent> \sh: yes but my english sux
<emgent> :)
<\sh> emgent, that will get better every day...try to speak german with ogra ;)
<\sh> emgent, and give ogra a hug from me :)
<emgent> hahah ok :)
<emgent> \sh: #ubuntu-devel-summit :)
<\sh> emgent, anyways...have a great time :) enjoy your stay and enjoy your "working holiday" ;)
<geser> emgent: you have now a occasion to improve your English :)
<\sh> geser, with all the germans there? I wonder, he'll improve his DEnglish ;)
<emgent> geser: Engrish
<emgent> :P
<geser> lol
<\sh> dear vmware developers, please make vmware esx virtual infrastructure client linux compatible...eventually only running via wine...but this situation now is doomed...and not usable
<\sh> emgent, subscribe to the "ubuntu mobile, security for packages not in main" bof (16:15-17:10) if you haven't done already
<wgrant> \sh: Do we actually subscribe to them somewhere? I can't see them anywhere on LP.
<\sh> wgrant, I thought via blueprint?
<wgrant> \sh: I can't see the blueprints anywhere.
<\sh> how nice
<\sh> how do they know now who is attending to those bofs
<persia> I'm not sure there's a close mapping between mooted blueprints and entries on LP.
<wgrant> \sh: Magic.
<\sh> looks like...Need a voip account now
<wgrant> So they look like blueprints with subscribers like they have been for every other recent UDS, but aren't?
<wgrant> Why are all the interesting sessions in the very early morning?
<persia> wgrant: Precisely.  I've yet to encounter any rationale for name mappings (despite having my name somewhere)
<wgrant> They must always do that deliberately.
<wgrant> persia: I was thinking they might have polled Canonical people, but then I saw your name there which discounted that...
<emgent> \sh: yes i saw :)
<wgrant> (very early morning local time, that is)
<\sh> wgrant, so everybody is concentrated..mostly after lunch people are getting tired ;)
<wgrant> \sh: That's after lunch Prague time.
<emgent> wgrant: o/
<ScottK-uds> I got picked for a few too.  Not sure how that worked.
<wgrant> Security, universe QA, bug stuff... All after lunch.
<\sh> wgrant, yeah...seeing it now
<norsetto> scottk: where are you?
<ScottK-uds> Server Team
<ScottK-uds> norsetto:
<norsetto> Scottk-uds: ok
<slomo> siretart: ffmpeg in debian is build with --enable-gpl, right?
<mok0> siretart, are you going to write this new grab-merge program?
<Iulian> Hi
<mok0> Hi Iulian
<Iulian> Hey mok0
<siretart> slomo: right. with a note in README.Debian about contacting the maintainers if this is a problem for you
<siretart> mok0: depends on how the design ends up. I still have only rough sketches
<mok0> siretart: cool!
<mok0> siretart: If you need help, pls say
<siretart> mok0: if you want to go ahead, get cracking!
<mok0> siretart: you have it on bzr?
<mok0> perhaps in ubuntu-dev-tools?
<slomo> siretart: well, it's a potential problem with gst-ffmpeg... as it's a plugin and people might use it in the same process as gpl-incompatible plugins ;)  (not that this isn't a problem with mad already...)
<siretart> mok0: I'm not sure where to put it. ubuntu-dev-tools might be a good option
<mok0> siretart: It's a mixed bag of stuff anyway
<siretart> slomo: well, I don't think this is a potential, but rather a real problem. we probably should talk to ftpmaster about that
<mok0> siretart: so, do you have any code, or just loose ideas?
<mok0> siretart: I know, nasty question ;-)
<slomo> siretart: iirc this depends on your GPL interpretation (breaks when linking or when loading in the same process?)
<siretart> mok0: no code, as said, only rough sketches in my head
<slomo> siretart: also, one could say it's the user's problem... because it's more or less his choice to use it or not and there are many scenarios where it can be used legally
<siretart> slomo: not on my interpretation, but rather on ftpmaster's interpretation
<slomo> siretart: well, the packages themselves are fine... it's the combination of several packages that causes problems and this combination is the user's choice (afaik there's no package that forces a combination of plugins whose licenses are invalid)
<slomo> siretart: currently the only possible problem that comes to my mind is using gst-fluendo-mpegdemux and gst-ffmpeg in the same problem (MPL vs. GPL) and of course when users buy the fluendo codecs and use them
<directhex> why is that a problem? surely the GPL is a distribution license, and you're free to "break" it if you're not distributing the result?
<slomo> directhex: because different people have different interpretations... IMHO distributing the stuff is just fine because it's all seperate, problem appears when the user combines several parts
<mok0> directhex: no
<mok0> directhex: from article 5: " Therefore, by
<mok0> modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the
<mok0> Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and
<mok0> all its terms and conditions for copying, distributing or modifying
<mok0> the Program or works based on it."
<directhex> mok0, installing and executing the program is neither modifying nor distributing, though. that's precisely my point. the gpl covers distribution
<mok0> directhex: and modifying, even if you don't distribute
<mok0> directhex: in other words, if you modify, you must distribute
<\sh> mok0, if you modify, you need to make the source available...in what way, it's not mentioned or settled...you can also send the source on a cd for money
<broonie> Only if you distribute binaries (or source). You can do whatever you like locally providing you don't give anyone else a copy of it.
<directhex> broonie, that's what i'm arguing, but mok0 disagrees
<mok0> \sh: so, if I make an ingenious modification to gcc that makes it run 100 times faster, I can distribute the source for a price of $1,000,000,000,000 ??? I don't think so
<directhex> (/me is currently fighting a major unequivocal gpl violation, as it happens)
<broonie> mok0: Of course - you can charge what you like for the source; you just can't stop anyone else exercising their GPL rights with the results.
<\sh> mok0, nope...but if you send out a cd in platin and gold and the production cost is 1Billion dollar, you could ;)
<directhex> mok0, you can distribute the binaries for $1,000,000,000,000 as long as you include source, and that source can be redistributed by others for free
<directhex> see also: RHEL
<broonie> mok0: (assuming you really mean sell the source, and don't mean "fulfil GPL obligations for the binary")
<mok0> broonie: I am arguing that you must provide the same right over the software that you yourself have
<\sh> the problem in general: "What is locally providing?" giving out binaries from one company to another, even if the companies are directly connected, you need to make the source public
<\sh> but inside one single company, you can do any source changes you want without publishing
<siretart> slomo: btw, ffmpeg-free just built successfully in unstable
<siretart> on powerpc, that is
<broonie> mok0: Right, but this only takes effect when you distribute.
<mok0> If you modify the source, you _must_ distribute your changes
<\sh> mok0, nope
<mok0> Otherwise you can't let anyone use the binary
<\sh> mok0, if I change the source of a GPL licensed source, and never make it public...no need to publish
<slomo> siretart: great, i'll upload new gst-ffmpeg to unstable soonish then
<\sh> mok0, who wants that?
<broonie> mok0: Giving someone the binary to run is distribution.
<\sh> mok0, I change a server daemon source which is licensed GPL...it's only running on my server...no need to publish...
<mok0> \sh: you can't install it for others to use
<\sh> mok0, I don't want that in special cases
<\sh> mok0, only when I make it available to other people (where other people == undefined and really difficult to decide)...I need to publish the source.
<mok0> ... GPL-3 was introduced exactly to close the loopholes that imaginative companies have tried to rip-off the software authors
<directhex> one of the specific targets of gpl v3 was to target systems where you can have "worthless source"
<directhex> e.g. tivo - "here, have our source. it won't execute if you compile it, though, due to lack of crypto keys"
<directhex> that's not the same thing as working on something yourself, and never sharing it. if i make a change to some libarry to test a theory, should i be publishing source, even if i never plan on using that personally-compiled binary ever again?
<mok0> directhex: of course not, unless it is useful, and you let other people use it
<mok0> directhex: you can also rip part of the library out and put it in your own code using the same license
<siretart> slomo: yes, that would be great
<directhex> mok0, which only becomes an issue of any description once you want to distribute said code. and now we're back to square 1
<directhex> mok0, the only room for doubt here is whether 2 libraries being loaded by the same app constitute a "derivative work", if their licenses aren't compatible
<mok0> directhex: no, because you acquire a copy of the program, and the act of modifying the program means you accept the license
<mok0> directhex: if the library is not LGPL'ed, you're in trouble. For example. readline is GPL, which means that any program using readline must be distributed under the same license.
<sebner> huhu dholbach
<dholbach> hi sebner
<directhex> mok0, and we're back onto this curious definition of "must". is the only way to develop in the presence of gpl software to point apache at your $HOME, just in case someone wants access to your source, because you "must distribute"?
<mok0> directhex: don't be silly
<directhex> mok0, and this STILL doesn't answer the question "is the ability for a gst app, using two libraries at the same time, with incompatible licenses, a distributor problem?"
<mok0> directhex: Well, IANAL. If you really want to discuss this, go to gnu.misc.discuss
<mok0> directhex: you may get an answer from RMS himself
<directhex> mok0, slomo or siretart might want to, but they got bored of the discussion half an hour ago. i'm just explaining why i disagree with your view of the gst-ffmpeg situation
<mok0> directhex: Sounds like you are looking for holes in the GPL and I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that there aren't any. Nobody forces you to use GPL'ed software
<directhex> christ on a bike,  where did THAT come from?
<directhex> disagreeing with you does not mean i want a glorious new world order without freedom, it means i disagree with you
<mok0> directhex: did I misunderstand?
<mok0> directhex: no offense intended
<directhex> i disagree with your assertion that "private", non-distributed apps must have the source published, even if you don't plan on sharing binaries. mostly because it says as much on http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic
<mok0> directhex: I agree, it's just a question whether "private, non-distributed apps" make sense
<directhex> "You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization."
<directhex> i think that's reasonably clear
<mok0> directhex: If you are the only person with access to the computer, then yes, but if you install the app on a multiuser system, then no
<mok0> directhex: that quote is very surprising to me
<directhex> mok0, ah, but there's one of the non-existent issues with gpl v2 - that's NOT how things are right now, and is being "abused" as a result - e.g. web services built on top of GPL code (but you're not 'distributing' any binaries, so it's 'okay')
<fargiolas> hey, any sru member there?
<directhex> mok0, now, if you disagree with gnu.org, that IS something to take up with gnu.misc.discuss ;)
<mok0> directhex:  :-)
<directhex> mok0, see also: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#UnreleasedMods
<mok0> directhex: so what if I, a member of that organization, would _REALLY_ like to get my hands on the mods and install them at home??
<fargiolas> I'd like to know what's wrong with https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/222580... everything seemed ok but I never got a reply after submitting the debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222580 in gnome-mastermind "GNOME Mastermind grid is shifted to the right with new cairo releases" [Undecided,New]
<fargiolas> jdong: ping?
<directhex> mok0, if you're distributing it from your company to you (as a private individual) then that's distribution, as per the license
<directhex> mok0, i think. IANAL.
<directhex> mok0, for an easier, clear-cut example of gpl violation, try http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/5/16/472
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> directhex: yeah
<directhex> STILL no reply from compro.
<mok0> directhex: they will probably try to stall... Skype just gave in on their attempt to circumvent the GPL
<mok0> Nobody has yet overturned the GPL
<mok0> in a court of law
<directhex> mok0, all the naysayers insist that it's not been "tested" in a court of law.
<mok0> directhex: heh
<directhex> mok0, the bit in brackets being (in the US, anyway, and only if you define 'tested' as 'ruled on by a judge, rather than dealt with by a settlement before ruling')
<mok0> directhex: it's never been overturned
<directhex> things would be MUCH worse for companies violating the GPL if it were overturned
<mok0> directhex: Legally it's a no-brainer, I think.
<directhex> since it goes from license violation to copyright violation, and the RIAA have taught us that every infraction is worth eleventy billion dollars
<mok0> directhex: the license clearly says, nothing else than the license gives you the right to distribute
<directhex> indeed.
<mok0> so the mere _act_ of distributing shows you accept the license
<ScottK-uds> I think if you look at SCO versus Novell decision, it pretty clearly establishes the validity of GPL.
<directhex> also indeed
<directhex> and further indeed
<mok0> In my opinion, the GPL is extremely clever, and it gives the "little guy" the best protection of their copyright
<mok0> Companies are only concerned if _their_ copyright is violated. They gladly violate others'
<directhex> i'm still curious as to whether gpl violation can be tackled in the US via the DMCA. IANAL, but i get the feeling you can at least get any violatory stuff taken offline
<mok0> DMCA?
<ScottK-uds> Digital Millenum Copyright Act.
<mok0> sounds evil
<ScottK-uds> It is.
<directhex> digital millennium copyright act. the overbearing copyright law people use to get things pulled offline (e.g. all the cool stuff removed from youtube). it's primarily used for dealing with "copyright violation"
<mok0> like it's meant for the next 1000 years
<mok0> Well, they have RIAA etc. we have the GPL
<directhex> that's the thing. on the basis that rejecting the gpl means you have no right to distribute, then you're violating copyright by distributing outside the boundaries of the gpl. and on THAT basis, the company infringing on the copyright of the developer(s) of the gpl code can be attacked using the same anti-consumer laws as are used to attack people passing mp3s on bittorrent. as is my understanding of us law, anyway
<mok0> directhex: So violating the GPL is like aiming a machinegun at your feet and pulling the trigger...
<mok0> ... except no ordinary person can afford to sue for copyright infringement...
<slytherin> mok0: No. It is dropping granade on your feet and still hoping it won't blow your face
<mok0> ha
<directhex> mok0, if it goes to court, and the side which has been "damaged" has the money for legal representation. sure.
<mok0> directhex: ... and most likely you'll run out of money while they're pulling all the legal tricks
<directhex> or they just won't give a crap, e.g. uif they're somewhere like china
<mok0> is there such thing as a "free trial" in the US?
<directhex> ... or taiwan...
<mok0> That will enable a poor person to carry on a trial against a wealthy corporation (or person)??
<ScottK-uds> mok0: For civil cases (like copyright violation) you can usually get a lawyer to take the case for a percentage of any eventual recovery.
<directhex> s/usually/occasionally/
<mok0> ScottK, that means it is up to the lawyers?
<directhex> if it's not an open and shut case, good luck
<ScottK-uds> There is almost always a lawyer that'll do it.
<mok0> Here you can apply for a "free process" either if you're empoverished, or if the case has a principal interest
<ScottK-uds> Many lawyers make their entire careers on contigency cases.
<ScottK-uds> There are some limited resources for that, but they are very limited.
<mok0> I am guessing copyright violation would not qualify
<ScottK-uds> Probably not (but contingency fees would work).
<mok0> "If you're dumb enough to GIVE your code away, then you DESERVE to get screwed" :-)
<mok0> OK, gotta go. See you guys later...
<gnomefreak> jdong: can you please look at bug 212468 asac and myself would prefer a backport of latest FF3 in Gutsy if you can let me know and ill do what i can to get it out
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212468 in gutsy-backports "Backport Firefox 3.0 beta 5 from Hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212468
<sebner> gnomefreak: firefox beta5 is in hardy!?
<gnomefreak> sebner: yes
<sebner> gnomefreak: ah to gutsy
<gnomefreak> sebner: i didnt say hardy
<sebner> gnomefreak: sry. missunderstood
<gnomefreak> its ok i figured you did :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> huhu bddebian
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<Iulian> 'ey bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Iulian
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<pochu> sebner: nice work with sync requests :)
<sebner> pochu: why?
<pochu> sebner: because I'm ack'ing all of them ;)
<sebner> pochu: I don't have that many. you just ACKed gmsh ;)
<pochu> I think I acked more. look again at your mail :)
<devfil> pochu: if you are ACKing I've reported some syncs :)
<pochu> devfil: bugs?
<sebner> pochu: haha. run run run
<pochu> ah, wapiti
<devfil> pochu: wapiti, vips and libgtk2-ex-podviewer-perl
<devfil> wapiti is to ACK
<sebner> pochu: just normal sync bugs, nothing special. or are you so nice to me because you know that today is my birthday ;)
<devfil> pochu: but if you have time I've also 3 merges
<sebner> devfil: na na na. there is a queue ;P
<devfil> sebner: lol ok ok
<pochu> sebner: oh, really? happy birthday! :)
<sebner> pochu: thx :) now you have to review all my merges and syncs :P
<persia> sebner: Happy Birthday
<pochu> heh
<sebner> persia: thx ^^
<devfil> sebner: is your birthday?
<sebner> devfil: yes
<sebner> I should leave ^^
<sebner> huhu mok0
<sebner> -.-
<devfil> sebner: then happy birthday!
<sebner> devfil: also thanks to you :)
<sebner> As of today I have legal access to pr0n, \o/
<devfil> sebner: loool
<sebner> ^^
<devfil> sebner: you don't need to post an invalid born date
<sebner> devfil: ^^
<pochu> sebner: you can go to prison too :P
<sebner> pochu: damn! xD
<devfil> pochu: lol
<pochu> I want a scripts which automatically subscribes ubuntu-archive and unsubscribes u-u-s :)
<sebner> pochu: bah, don't be lazy :P
<pochu> that way I can increase my ACKs/minute :P
<devfil> pochu: I am looking at this bug #196834. Maybe a simple command in rules should fix the bug. Do you think this is right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 196834 in wxwidgets2.8 "wxPython demo is not installing properly" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196834
<pochu> +rate
<persia> pochu: And subscribes yourself, and adds ACK :)
<pochu> right :)
<sebner> persia: how is it in prague?
<highvoltage> howdy!
<devfil> pochu: ok, then I will try to fix it
<pochu> devfil: what? I didn't say anything :)
<pochu> looking at it
<stgraber> pochu: btw, isn't that the second time we don't manage to meet at UDS ? last time you didn't make it and this time I leave before you arrive :)
<devfil> pochu: lol
<pochu> stgraber: yeah :/ "A la tercera va la vencida" :)
<pochu> If you know Spanish proverbs ;)
<sebner> pochu: I heard that the sponsors queue is > 250. so go and increase your ACKs count :P
<stgraber> pochu: I don't :)
<stgraber> pochu: when did you arrive in Prague ?
<pochu> stgraber: yesterday night
<pochu> stgraber: did you leave yesterday?
<stgraber> pochu: I left Prague yesterday at 16:30 :)
<pochu> sebner: and my karma :)
<pochu> bah :(
<sebner> pochu: karma hunter :P bah?
<pochu> I was in the airport at 13h and arrive here at 22h or so...
<sebner> pochu: why are you doing ubuntu work. go and walk around in prague or attend sessions :P
<stgraber> too bad I couldn't stay, I liked the hotel and conference rooms. Only problem is the price of food/drink in the area, you need to go to the city and find a local bar/restaurant to get something cheap
<pochu> or go to McDonalds ;)
<sebner> pochu: that's what the youth normally does ^^
<stgraber> I didn't see a McDonalds around the hotel, the only one I saw was in the city (Muzeum metro station)
<pochu> devfil: I think that's ok, could you attach a debdiff?
<pochu> devfil: or maybe use dh_compress -X...
<stgraber> but then, just buy some local food :)
<pochu> devfil: I haven't looked at the source though, just read the bug
<persia> stgraber: There's one about 1km away, but not closer.  There are cheaper places coser.
<pochu> persia: want a hamburger? :)
<devfil> pochu: I too. Now I'm looking the source to try to fix it. I think debian/unpack_examples.sh should be dropped because it doesn't working at my fix will replace it
<persia> pochu: I don't eat that much meat all at once :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: i had one of them.
<Hobbsee> pochu: a sent email, and just kept changing the to field.
<Hobbsee> (or adding multiple to's)
<pochu> Hobbsee: ah, indeed
<pochu> Hobbsee: thanks for the tip :)
<pochu> persia: there's fish hamburgers AFAIK :-)
<pochu> persia: why are you listed on some sessions at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-intrepid/2008-05-20/index.html?
<persia> pochu: Because they can't happen without me?
<pochu> heh
<pochu> but I mean, I thought that was tracked at blueprints.lp.net, but I haven't found blueprints for most sessions I've searched for
<pochu> and for the one I found it, it didn't have any subscribers...
<persia> pochu: The mapping is broken for this session
 * bluefoxicy stabs rhythmbox repeatedly for constantly deciding it should play any ipod plugged in, rather than whatever it was playing before
<sebner> off. /me ---> birthdaydinner :)
<pochu_> so last sync is a merge :) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors?field.searchtext=sync
<devfil> pochu: maybe I find an error: find $DESTDIR -name "*.gz" -exec gunzip {} \; GUNZIP???
<jdong> devfil: gunzip is valid
<jdong> it's the opposite of gzip...
<devfil> jdong: ok
<devfil> jdong: I remembered gnuzip
<jdong> gnuzip hasn't been a valid command for ages...
<jdong> gunzip is gzip's unzip command
<jdong> it's essentially gzip -d, as far as I know
<devfil> jdong: ok, thanks for this infos :)
<RainCT> bluefoxicy: yeh, that's annoying :(
<pochu_> all syncs done! there's too many merges though, but that will have to wait :)
<dpm> could anyone tell me in which ubuntu package can I find the manual pages for kernel development (i.e. those in section 9 of the man pages). In Debian they are in the linux-manual-(kernel-version) package, but there is no such equivalent package in Ubuntu
<Pici> manpages-dev ?
<jdong> Pici: for kernel development.
<jdong> I think the wiki's got the best info on that
<Pici> jdong: twas a guess
<dpm> jdong: any section in particular in the wiki, or should I just search for it?
<pwnguin> I never should have said that clint adam's blog was random. now it's just random numbers =(
<jdong> dpm: I wish I knew off the top of my head, sorry.
<dpm> ok, I'll search for it. Thanks for the pointer
<slytherin> geser: Do you have some time to review a package?
<geser> not right now, but perhaps later
<slytherin> geser: Ok. FYI ... bug 177158
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 177158 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xml-commons-external" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177158
<geser> I guess you are better at packaging java apps than me :), but I can still look at it
<slytherin> geser: It is first attempt at packaging from scratch. :-)
<leif> ? is the maintainer of blender here
<leif> lf blender deb maintainer
<laga> leif: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<laga> Original-Maintainer: Debian Blender Maintainers <pkg-blender-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<laga> you probably want to contact these mailing lists
<leif> ok is new to linux sorry
<laga> if you've got a real question, you can also ask it ;)
<leif> well better wait for those guys to test the new code for the new to get tested
<leif> sounds like you guys is kind of hard core programer :)
<LaserJock> quick question, do we still only take gzipped upstream tarballs?
<sebner> LaserJock: bye bye :(
<LaserJock> hello to you to ;-)
<geser> LaserJock: afaik .orig.tar.gz is still the only accepted format
<sebner> LaserJock: good luck with your studies
<geser> afaik only the data.tar in the debs can be bzip2
<leif> what is a good ide to learn c++ in
<LaserJock> it seems so odd
<LaserJock> leif: vim?
<leif> ok thanx
<LaserJock> sebner: thank you
<Adri2000> is it possible to disable langpack.mk for a package using gnome.mk?
<bbyever> could someone please review merge #226988
<bbyever> ?
<bbyever> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/226988
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226988 in bygfoot "Please merge bygfoot 2.0.1-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main) " [Undecided,In progress]
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-20
<artfwo> Hi! May I ask how to fix lintian warning about "debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink" in multi-binary CDBS package?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Howdie bddebian
<bddebian> Heya RAOF
<cheatr> Could someone review this perl module that I packaged? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=liblocale-hebrew-perl
<LaserJock> anybody about that happens to use Jabber?
<artfwo> LaserJock: i do
<LaserJock> artfwo: are you running Hardy?
<RAOF> As do I.
<artfwo> yes
<LaserJock> well, I'm having the weirdest situation right now
<LaserJock> I've tried 3 gnome clients and all of them seem to connect but no people show up. I can't seen any contacts
<artfwo> are these people currently offline?
<LaserJock> but I tried 2 KDE/Qt clients and they both work fine
<LaserJock> I have about 5 online people
<LaserJock> but with the gnome clients I can't even see offline people
<LaserJock> it's just blank
<artfwo> what gnome clients did you try?
<LaserJock> gajm, pidgin, and gossip
<LaserJock> *gajim
<RAOF> LaserJock: Tried empathy?  That works for me; you'll need the telepathy-gabble package to have a jabber handler.
 * jdong is considering committing a cardinal sin over the summer...
<jdong> that is, running opensuse 11 for the summer on my macbook
<RAOF> jdong: Playing starcraft unto 3 in teh morning?
<LaserJock> jdong: don't do it!
<jdong> RAOF: that's just ditching exam studying ;-)
<LaserJock> jdong: maybe try Fedora?
<jdong> LaserJock: well... I gave fedora 9 a shot yesterday actually... my initial reactions are not positive
<RAOF> Fedora looks fairly nice; I've got me a VM image that occasionally gets a run.
<artfwo> LaserJock: very strange indeed, but did you try "show offline buddies" option?
<jdong> LaserJock: I think I will hold off before saying much more in case my judgement changes
<LaserJock> artfwo: yep
<LaserJock> jdong: oh really? I really like Fedora 9
<jdong> but getting an error dialog that says "The relationship trust hierarchy is invalid" on the first set of updates....
<LaserJock> for me much better than openSUSE
<jdong> the re-what?
<jdong> it ended with "This dialog is a known bug. Do not report this. This will be fixed in the next UI rollout"
<jdong> granted, I found it amusing
<RAOF> Oooooh, owch.
<jdong> and proceeded to use yum from the CLI
<jdong> the overall polish and appearance is quite attractive
<RAOF> Yay stable upgrades?
<jdong> RAOF: oh don't GET ME STARTED
<jdong> RAOF: it installs a policy kit update. Guess what it does when installing said update?
<jdong> RAOF: it forcibly restarts dbus+hal, which actually cascaded into my whole X session crashing.
<RAOF> Undoes all your configuration?
<RAOF> Even better!
<jdong> whee!
<LaserJock> jdong: serious?
<jdong> LaserJock: no joke....
<LaserJock> I've not had any problems with updates
<RAOF> At least you get to test how well it recovers from half-configured packages.
<jdong> RAOF: that, it seems to do remarkably well
<pwnguin> packagekit?
<LaserJock> RAOF: grrr, empathy does the same thing
<jdong> pwnguin: well.. yeah. yum/rpm.
<LaserJock> RAOF: it connects, but there's no contacts
<RAOF> LaserJock: That's really, really wierd.
<LaserJock> yumex is what I use mostly
<RAOF> Because it *totally* works here.
<LaserJock> packagekit can only install one package at a time
<pwnguin> i donno. packagekit doesn't seem to offer anything significant versus update-manager
<jdong> yeah ultimately I want to diversify my distro collection
<artfwo> LaserJock: perhaps there's some global gnome option (like proxy), that all gnome client try to use?
<jdong> particularly after *unmentioned Debian vulnerability.....*
<LaserJock> RAOF: I have -proposed enabled. I wondered if something there killed it. But it'd be weird that all gnome clients would do it
<jdong> FWIW, I'm using finch (libpurple) on hardy-proposed
<jdong> and it seems to be fine
<RAOF> LaserJock: I've got -proposed enabled, too.
<LaserJock> bah
<RAOF> Proxy craziness?
<LaserJock> I don't have a proxy
<LaserJock> and in the gnome proxy setting it says "Direct Internet Connection"
<LaserJock> it's gotta be something like that though
<LaserJock> I don't think all the gnome clients use the same libraries
<RAOF> That's an obvious piece of desktop-specific shared config.
<LaserJock> dang it, this is a brand new install, don't tell me I've screwed it up already :-)
<artfwo> pidgin and gajim have an XMPP console, you can try to trace the problem with it
<pwnguin> does jabber store contacts?
<artfwo> pwnguin: of course
<LaserJock> artfwo: ok, got the console, but there's nothing going on
<LaserJock> you know how to use the console in pidgin?
<artfwo> blah, it works only when you're logged in
<artfwo> but pidgin --debug should do it
<LaserJock> ah, after a while pidgin says it timed out
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> using --debug I see all my contacts getting spit out to the terminal
<LaserJock> but nothing shows up in the UI
<artfwo> not that's even weirder
<artfwo> *now
<LaserJock> but now I get : <error code='503' type='cancel'><service-unavailable xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-stanzas'/></error>
<LaserJock> and then a bit later it disconnects
<artfwo> I've got the same problem with jabber.org server in pidgin in the past
<artfwo> sometimes it just kicked me off
<artfwo> hence no contacts visible
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I know jabber.org just switched servers and they had some downtime
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how that would explain why the kopete and psi connected no problem
<artfwo> are they connected now?
<LaserJock> I only do one at a time
<LaserJock> but yes, I just ran psi and it took just a second for all my contacts to come up
<artfwo> i give up then :)
<LaserJock> artfwo: I'm able to talk with Hobbsee via psi right now
<LaserJock> it actually works
<LaserJock> ok, well screw it. I'll just use kopete and try again tomorrow
<artfwo> i've just logged to my old jabber.org account with pidgin, everything seems to be okay
<LaserJock> I'll try a reboot and see if that possibly does anything, but other than that I'm stuck
<LaserJock> perhaps I should sign up for a different account and try that too
<LaserJock> ok, last ditch try I booted into Fedora and at least the buddy list shows up
<LaserJock> but it says nobody is online which is a bit weird
<LaserJock> oh wait, it just disconnected like on Ubuntu
<RoAkSoAx> lol xD
<LaserJock> well, I'm going to say it's some weird jabber.org problem for now
<emgent> heya
<siretart> superm1: TheMuso: could you please tell me your plans about vlc?
<siretart> I noticed that the package has seriously diverged from debian (7.5M diff)
<siretart> and it needs to be rebuilt against the new ffmpeg
<wgrant> siretart: VLC in Ubuntu has a couple of embedded source packages (real Ubuntu source packages, not bits of upstream source) that shouldn't be embedded.
<siretart> wgrant: I didn't look at the package for quite some time, but that's my impression, yes
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-24
* jdavies changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/
<huats> does anybody can sponsor bug 234463, it is a bit blocking for me right now...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234463 in libxml-libxml-perl "Please sponsor libxml-libxml-perl_1.66-1ubuntu1 (Rebuild Upload) into intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234463
<geser> huats: rebuilds should get a -xbuildy version (if there are no ubuntu changes)
<geser> and please close your bug in the changelog
<huats> geser: sure geser for the bug
<huats> I'll change that right now
<sebner> huhu cody-somerville
<cody-somerville> hyea
<cody-somerville> :)
<sebner> cody-somerville: recieved my mail?
<cody-somerville> sebner, yes but I'm not sure what I did, lol
<sebner> cody-somerville: nvm ^^
 * sebner hugs cody-somerville 
 * cody-somerville wants to know though :(
<cody-somerville> Are you sure you don't mean to thank persia?
<huats> geser: can you have another look at bug 234463 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234463 in libxml-libxml-perl "Please sponsor libxml-libxml-perl_1.66-1build1 (Rebuild Upload) into intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234463
<huats> is it better now ?
<geser> huats: yes, you just need to wait now for a main sponsor
<geser> huats: I collect mine perl rebuild debdiffs for main in bug #230016
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230016 in ossp-uuid "[intrepid] Rebuild with perl 5.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230016
<huats> geser: ok
<huats> geser: do you need any help ?
 * RAOF notes that Fedora's 'Make a live USB image' howto would be more useful if it didn't start "Install livecd-utils in your Fedora system..."
<Laney> I thought that too...
<geser> huats: once libreadyonly-{,xs-}perl got synced, one can look again which -perl packages can be given-back (see the FTBFS list)
<huats> ok
<huats> geser: well if you need help for this task, just let me know...
<geser> huats: the main part is to figure in which order the -perl package needs to get build/given-back
<geser> huats: will do
<leifdk1978> hey does building pacages requrire programming knowlege like c++ or
<geser> no, more how a Makefile looks like
<leifdk1978> ahh that one i know :)
<leifdk1978> just wondered if i could be of help
<geser> help is always needed :)
<leifdk1978> cool just need a pointer in the rigth direction
<leifdk1978> is there a place to get source code or tar.gz/bz2 files and to know where to start
<ruiboon_> leifdk1978: you can get the sources of many packages using apt-get source pkgname
<leifdk1978> ohhh nice
<leifdk1978> do motu hava a wike or
<huats> leifdk1978: have a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<huats> geser: I just put the rebuild for libdbd-sqlite3-perl
<leifdk1978> hmm so this thing is just to make deb files and fix any realy easy bugs or
<geser> huats: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdbd-sqlite3-perl/+bug/230016/comments/24 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230016 in libdbd-sqlite3-perl "[intrepid] Rebuild with perl 5.10" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<huats> geser: ok you have a point
<huats> :)
<geser> I've set it back to New so it doesn't get overlooked by a main sponsor
<huats> sure
<huats> I mean remove my
<huats> debdiff and stuffs
<huats> you did it firet ;)
<huats> first
<huats> well I let you do as you planed geser :)
<huats> once again ping/mail me if you need help...
<huats> got to go soon but I might be available to do stuff in the we
<thp> how can I get an updated universe package into hardy?
<geser> thp: what kind of update?
<thp> a new upstream version of a package that fixes lots of bugs in the version that is currently available in hardy (gpodder)
<geser> the best approach would be through a hardy-backport (if the new version is already in intrepid)
<geser> huats: if you interested: rrdtool (main) needs a merge (for the perl 5.10 transition)
<huats> geser: ok I'll have a look
<huats> geser: cannot find it on dad
<huats> sorry I haven't seen it was on main
<huats> ..
<geser> huats: ming (universe) needs also a merge (please check if bug #174956 can be easily fixed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 174956 in ming "pc file non installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174956
<huats> geser: ok I cannot do it right now, but I keep that on my mind and I let you know soon about...
<huats> thanks
<pwang> just a little moan here guys. why is firefox 3 rc1 not released for hardy yet? it's released for intrepid.
<pwang> just a little moan here guys. why is firefox 3 rc1 not released for hardy yet? it's released for intrepid.
<pwang> *sigh* i guess i'll have to go with the launchpad package instead.
<Laney> slangasek: Mind if I take the pdns merge?
<\sh> moins
<\sh> Ng: I just filed a bug report about terminator segfaulting when no $DISPLAY is set :)
<\sh> the backport procedure is somehow complicated
<leifdk1978> hmm this thing motu seeem ok fun
<\sh> "this thing motu"?
<leifdk1978> to make new versions of deb files a bit complex but fun and help full
<\sh> nah...generating debian packages is not as hard as playing with rpm source packages where the whole package info and build info and post/pre-inst/rm stuff is inside one file and you need to read weired rpm macros :(
<jdavies> \sh: pity he left
<\sh> that's life ;)
<Iulian> Troll?
<jdavies> Iulian: think Harry Potter
 * Iulian smiles
<\sh> uh...my first propose to merge branch ..
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hihu bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<jdong> urgh stupid slow airport wifi
<jdong> I guess beggars can't be choosers
<LucidFox> smarter, you here?
<smarter> yep
<LucidFox> You don't need to use REVU to update packages already submitted to Ubuntu
<LucidFox> File a bug on LP for qdevelop and attach the diff.gz for the new version, and I'll sponsor it
<smarter> okay, didn't know that
<smarter> thanks
<smarter> feel free to nuke the upload then ;)
<LucidFox> okay
<smarter> what is the "Updated packages" for in revu?
<LucidFox> archived
<LucidFox> From what I understand, it's a remnant from before this practice was developed
<smarter> ok
<smarter> LucidFox: bug #234605
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234605 in qdevelop "Please sponsor qdevelop 0.25.2+svn080522-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234605
<LucidFox> smarter> will do
<smarter> thanks
<LucidFox> wait... debdiff?
<LucidFox> I asked for diff.gz
<LucidFox> a debdiff will be huge, it will include all upstream changes
<LucidFox> debdiffs are for changes within the same upstream version, e.g. from -0ubuntu1 to -0ubuntu2
<smarter> oh sorry, didn't realise ^^'
 * smarter uploads the diff.gz and tar.gz right now
<smarter> LucidFox: done
<LucidFox> smarter> thanks, will upload
<LucidFox> the orig.tar.gz isn't necessary, by the wa
<LucidFox> y
<smarter> LucidFox: why?
<LucidFox> because it can be created with get-orig-source
<smarter> yes, but then you will get today snapshot and need to change the version number in debian/changelog
<Festor> Is there a problem with the PPA?
<Festor> see this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/156872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156872 in launchpad "PPA: packaged passing from uploaded to published without trying to build" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Festor> Already 10 hours have passed and still no package. I can only see the sources.
<LucidFox> smarter> uploaded
<emgent> hello
<\sh> oh prague is coming home
<devfil> hi emgent!
<emgent> Yeah \sh :)
<sebner> \sh: why weren't you in prague? I think it will never be so near in the near feature
<\sh> sebner, time contraints
<\sh> sebner, I have to earn money :)
<sebner> \sh: what a pitty
<sebner> \sh: bah money ^^. btw, why is gentoo bad on servers? ^^
<\sh> oh...I have to repeat my speech from 2006 ;)
<sebner> \sh: was using XP at that time :P
<\sh> sebner, gentoo will never have a real "stable release" as we know it from rh, deb, ubu, suse
<pwnguin> heh, i just cleaned up the office in my mom's house and found a gentoo installer from 2002
<sebner> \sh: this sucks for servers but on the desktop it's the best you can do. Damn ubuntu :P
<\sh> gentoo is dynamic...which is good for a source based distro...
<\sh> sebner, no it sucks
<\sh> sebner, you sit the whole day and compile software but you don't use it
<sebner> \sh: argh. only bleeding edge is rue
<sebner> \sh: ah gentoo. ok ^^
<pwnguin> with gentoo, you can't really hold off on updates for very long
<directhex> gentoo doesn't need a bugzilla though - if someone reports a bug, just update the package, and say the bug is invalid because it was filed against an old version!
<\sh> indeed, gentoo is nice for software people who needs the latest software for their development...
<\sh> but for stability and reliabilty gentoo is wrong
<\sh> I was blind these days...I'll pray that I'll never do such a mistake again...never ever promised
<\sh> lol
<pwnguin> oh the other hand, our cluster admin enjoys gentoo
<directhex> pwnguin, lies
<pwnguin> lots of CPUs mounted on an NFS boot saves a bit on that whole compile thing
<pwnguin> compiles the kernel in 26 seconds it does
<directhex> who in their right mind uses gentoo on a cluster?
<pwnguin> instead of?
<directhex> something with some actual support - from both the vendor and the guys making third party apps like abaqus
<pwnguin> na
<pwnguin> its academic
<pwnguin> the whole department's servers run gentoo anyways
<directhex> madness :|
<pwnguin> according to the sysadmins, the dept's needs were too demanding for debian
<pwnguin> too many "please install this software i wrote" etc
<directhex> still madness!
<pwnguin> probably
<pwnguin> on the other hand, they didnt have to expire two years worth of ssh keys
<\sh> pwnguin, they don't know it yet ,-)
<pwnguin> directhex: im sure theres a redhat server somewhere running oracle
<pwnguin> but for the most part, the dept supports itself it seems
<\sh> gentoo has its reasons to be there...and I'm thankful for people who ran and used gentoo...they are known to put away more pain and are not children anymore
<directhex> i like vendor support. being able to send them core dumps & say "it breaks, fix it!" is a better situation that feeling around in the dark
<\sh> directhex, do that with adobe
<pwnguin> define vendor
<pwnguin> adobe?
<pwnguin> dell?
<directhex> pwnguin, sgi, dell, people like that
<\sh> "Dear Adobe, your FMS3 doesn't honour your umask settings...even if it says different"
<pwnguin> well, the company they buy hardware for does that
<pwnguin> for "linux"
<pwnguin> i dont know the details, but i know they've been back and forth about hardware support a few times
<\sh> anyways...I'm the only one, at least in the company of this customer, who had the experience with gentoo...and I was wrong to believe they could learn the gentoo ways these days...now they know the confixx way of doing things, and I'm fcked, because I have to fix the shit
<\sh> that's why gentoo was a sin...and I have to be punished for that
<pwnguin> \sh: it's probably a bit different with a campus Computer Science department with a large gentoo user base in the LUG
<\sh> pwnguin, yes...as I said, gentoo needs to be there...I'm not blaming gentoo for my mistake :)
<\sh> I blame myself
<\sh> it cost me again hours of my life...
<\sh> lucky i've been, two years ago, this company had still 7 gentoo servers of me ;) they replaced 6 of them with centos , because they don't want to pay RHEL money ;)
<\sh> but this one...the whole mail infrastructure , incoming and outgoing :( they are frightened to replace this server, too...and yesterday somewhat around midday their harddrives were 100% full ;)
<pwnguin> anyways, i think the main campus computing services uses solaris for the paid support
<\sh> oh guys, terminator is really lovely .. the new release will rock ;)
<emgent> \sh: sure! terminator rocks!
<sebner> bah. all this advertisment ^^
<emgent> ScottK: big lol!
<sebner> emgent: got your question anwered?
<sebner> *answered
<emgent> no
<emgent> http://en.emanuele-gentili.com/index.php/2008/05/24/ubuntu-developers-summit-some-photos/#comments
<emgent> hahaha
<sebner> emgent: linus torvalds xD hey but that's somehow true =)
<norsetto> howdy
<sebner> hiuhu norsetto
<emgent> o/ norsetto
<norsetto> hey emgent, so, you left the italian community too ....
<sebner> norsetto: I didn't left the italian community but also don't want to be ignored :P
<emgent> norsetto: yes
<\sh> oh god...pitti like aseigo
<\sh> no ways
<emgent> hehe
<norsetto> sebner: do you want me to kiss you wildly in public?
<\sh> and scottk looks like linus? hell...this john guy doesn't have a clue about age ,-)
 * RoAkSoAx hi yall xD
<\sh> norsetto, *ROTFLBTC*
<sebner> norsetto: public? public IRC yes :P
<emgent> norsetto: where do you read the news?
<\sh> oh damn...
<\sh> I need to get up at 6 tomorrow...and I need to shave
<emgent> \sh: heya man!
<emgent> argh
<sebner> baba \sh
<norsetto> emgent: ubuntu-it-dev m.l.
<\sh> I wonder why people hate my captcha :)
<norsetto> \sh: is that an article about UDS!?
<\sh> norsetto, hmm?
<norsetto> \sh: [22:59] <\sh> and scottk looks like linus? hell...this john guy doesn't have a clue about age ,-)
<\sh> norsetto, yeah it's a comment on emgents blog
<\sh> about uds pictures
<emgent> yes
<norsetto> \sh: too bad you weren't there, I would have been happy to meet you
<\sh> norsetto, well...the invitation came too late and I really don't have the time...this coming week the LT fair...it was hard to get holiday from work
<emgent> mee to \sh
<emgent> s/to/too/
<\sh> norsetto, what about next UDS ? ;)
<\sh> norsetto, we are young enough :)
<norsetto> \sh: indeed ;-)
<emgent> hehehe
<\sh> norsetto, and at least..italy is not far away .. a short jump over swiss and I'm there ;)
<sebner> \sh norsetto emgent : Did you participate at the daniel flashhug? ^^
<sebner> \sh: AUSTRIA ole ole
<emgent> sebner: yes!
<emgent> see youtube video, I'm in. :)
<norsetto> sebner: I refrained, another 100 kg could have been too much ...
<sebner> hehe
<sebner> emgent: well I couldn't recognise anybody except jono and daniel ^^
<norsetto> \sh: yeah, I talked with Claire about the next European UDS, I hope we will be able to do that in Rome
<\sh> norsetto, hmmm?? I thought we will have a nice UDS somewhere in brasilia with nice chicks and hot drinks ;) far away from home so nobody can see us ;)
<\sh> well...just an idea...
<norsetto> \sh: Brasil? Hmmmm, I think I like that
<\sh> guys, I really need to go...shaving and to bed tomorrow morning 4 o'clock UTC the night is over
<\sh> cu tomorrow :)
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, wanted to propose PerÃº for the next UDS
<norsetto> \sh: good night
<emgent> woow Peru` ?
<sebner> google is everywhere xD
<sebner> google maps/earth xD
<RoAkSoAx> ember, yeah!! Cusco maybe xD
 * norsetto wonders if there is any motu-sru team member around
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, yeah!! Cusco maybe xD (Where macchu picchu is xD)
 * norsetto thinks we should get rid of hit-and-run packages like memaker
<Gralco> hey guys
<sebner> norsetto: hmm? hit and run?
<norsetto> sebner: call it package-and-forget
<Gralco> how exactly does pbuilder work
<sebner> norsetto: but why?
<norsetto> sebner: why what?
<norsetto> !pbuilder | gralco
<sebner> norsetto: why package and forget? Have you anything against it?
<ubottu> gralco: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Gralco> i know what it is
<norsetto> sebner: I have everything against it
<sebner> norsetto: lol. why?
<Gralco> its just when i went through the package managing guide i got lost
<norsetto> sebner: because, what good to the distro is having stuff which is broken and unmaintained?
<sebner> norsetto: broken and unmaintained? If that's true and you are right with your package and forget thing
<sebner> norsetto: but I thought they were busy developing and getting it into ubuntu as important part
<Laney> It's weird that Memaker installs itself into System->Preferences
<sebner> Laney: maybe really b0rken
<Gralco> I turn an application in to Brian Murray for the ubuntu bug control team a week ago and I still haven't had any notice from it.
<Laney> Gralco: Try #ubuntu-bugs for that
<norsetto> sebner: it can be the greatest software on the planet, but if its broken and unmainteined I still think its wrong to have it
<Gralco> how long does it usually take
<sebner> norsetto: and are you sure that it is?
<Gralco> laney okay
<norsetto> sebner: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memaker/
<sebner> norsetto: ok bugs but https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memaker/+bug/204595
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204595 in memaker "Upgrade MeMaker package to latest upstream version" [Undecided,In progress]
<norsetto> sebner: yes, exactly what I mean ....
<sebner> norsetto: but it seems that upstream isn't dead so no not what you mean ;)
<norsetto> sebner: and what good is upstream if nobody takes care of it in the distro?
<sebner> norsetto: the MOTUs do :)
<Laney> norsetto: But the upgrade bug is "In Progress", so someone is looking at it
<norsetto> g'night all
<emgent> night Cesare
#ubuntu-motu 2008-05-25
<sebner> gn8 folks
<Amaranth> wow, it is apparently not possible to get those Peace cigarettes outside of Japan
<Amaranth> oh, persia isn't even here :P
<Laney> nxvl: Nice photos!
<nxvl> Laney: thnx
<emgent> hey nxvl :)
 * ScottK is home.
<emgent> heya ScottK :)
<ScottK> Heya emgent.
<pwnguin> anyone know the key combo to make a window more opaque in compiz?
<vorian> hello!
<vorian> I'm trying POD > man, and I keep getting manpage-has-bad-whatis-entry.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> What-is should be in the form   executable \- short description
<vorian> hmm
<vorian> retry :)
<vorian> thanks
<RAOF> Hm.  Given a netboot usb stick, is it possible to get it to grab intrepid rather than hardy?
<madrazr> Hi all, I want an help regarding debian source package management.
<madrazr> I did an apt-get source package and made few changes to the package
<madrazr> and also built the binary .debs using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc
<madrazr> some 3 or 4 weeks back.
<madrazr> then I forgot to make the changlelog entries, but now I want to make those entries but unfortunately I dont remember where all the changes I made
<madrazr> I also want to create patches of these changes now
<madrazr> I am not getting how to do this, can some help?
<madrazr> please
<RAOF> madrazr: You're probably looking for the debdiff command; 'debdiff oldpackage.dsc newpackage.dsc' will give you a diff containing all the changes you made.
<madrazr> RAOF: newpackage.dsc will be created?
<madrazr> because I dont think created source debian packages
<RAOF> madrazr: No; newpackage.dsc is the dsc file for your changed package.
<madrazr> RAOF: ok wait will check out
<madrazr> RAOF: there are no 2 .dsc files
<RAOF> madrazr: You still have your modified source package, right?  You can debuild -S to get an updated .dsc for the modified package, and grab the original, Ubuntu source with apt-get source.
<madrazr> ok will try now
<madrazr> RAOF: aren't there any alternatives?
<madrazr> I just want the patch file nothing else
<madrazr> meaning diff files
<RAOF> It depends on what you've actually done; there almost certainly are alternatives.
<RAOF> But debdiff will just be easier, and will get you all the changes you made.
<madrazr> I will explain, I did apt-get source parted
<madrazr> made some 3-4 changes
<madrazr> I dont remember all the 4, I only remember 2
<madrazr> then I created .deb files
<madrazr> only binaries
<madrazr> now I want the diff files
<madrazr> of what all changes I created
<RAOF> Debdiff will do that for you.
<RAOF> Oh.  Do you still have your source changes around?
<madrazr> yes
<RAOF> Then debdiff.  (If you didn't, what you ask would be impossible).
<RAOF> You'll need a copy of the unmodified source (apt-get source will provide this) and of your changed source (which you have).  Debdiff then basically automates the process of finding the diff.
<madrazr> say now I will have 2 directories partedMod with my modified source and parted with original source
<madrazr> by just running debdiff partedMod/parted.dsc parted/parted.dsc
<madrazr> will I get the diff files?
<RAOF> Yes; assuming partedMod/parted.dsc has been generated from your modified source package.
<madrazr> I am not able to generate that
<RAOF> Why not?
<madrazr> because of some problem here
<madrazr> debuild is not getting installed
<madrazr> now
<madrazr> infact some problem with synaptic
<madrazr> I will try sometime later
<RAOF> You can manually diff -Nur oldsourcedir newsourcedir if you want.  That should also get you a diff.
<madrazr> oh ok sooper I will try this then
<artfwo> Hello! I'm having a problem with uscan reporting a newer version: current is 3.2 and it thinks 3.2RC6 is new. Anyone knows how to fix this? Thanks.
<Hobbsee> siretart: +25 @ your mail!
<siretart> Hobbsee: I sent two mails
<Hobbsee> siretart: er, the one about the bugsquad missing the point.
<siretart> aah, right
<siretart> TBH, I don't see the point in the bugsquad having a seperate mailing list. I think they should discuss on ubuntu-motu or even ubuntu-devel
<Hobbsee> yeah, true
<andrew_sayers> Beyond OSI approval, does Ubuntu have any standard guidance about licensing?  For example, could using the BSDL prompt a religious debate?
<geser> andrew_sayers: if you mean the BSD license, it's common enough to got included in /usr/share/common-licenses, so feel free to use it
<andrew_sayers> geser: ok thanks, I'll get back to pondering then :)
<stephanecharette> noob here.  Question:  is this the right place to ask how/when certain packages are updated?
<stephanecharette> I'm the release manager for GRAMPS (on SourceForge)
<stephanecharette> Ubuntu 8.04 still lists GRAMPS at version 2.2, though we're now at version 3.0.1
<stephanecharette> I'm curious to know how the process works to get one of our newer versions listed
<stephanecharette> same questions, but applied to Graphviz
<stephanecharette> latest stable release is 2.18, but Ubuntu 8.04 lists Graphviz v2.16
<stephanecharette> hello?
<stephanecharette> Anyone actually here?
<RAOF> Yes?
<stephanecharette> you missed my question just above your login
<stephanecharette> here it is:
<RAOF> The answer would be: hardy has been released, and will not be recieving new versions*.
<stephanecharette> ok
<stephanecharette> I see
<RAOF> * Some exceptions being: (very unlikely) a bugfix release released as a Stable Release Upgrade.
<stephanecharette> so new versions of packages have to wait until 8.10?
<RAOF> * A backport from Intrepid.  This requires the new version be *in* Intrepid.
<stephanecharette> how do we make certain this time our new version is in Intrepid, since it didn't seem to have been picked up in 8.04?
<ruiboon> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/gramps shows that 3.0.1-1 has been published in Intrepid
<stephanecharette> thanks -- I see
<stephanecharette> but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/graphviz seems to indicate it is still 2.16
<stephanecharette> how do we get the 2.18 into Intrepid?
<geser> usually new version come into intrepid from Debian unstable
<geser> but in case of graphviz Ubuntu has some additional changes which needs to be merged
<geser> I expect to see graphviz merged in the next few weeks as currently nearly every developer works on merges
<stephanecharette> thank you for the answers
 * StevenK appears.
<RAOF> Wooo!
<StevenK> (In Singapore)
<RAOF> Angels descend
 * StevenK waves to RAOF 
<RAOF> Howdie.
<RAOF> So you're not interested in one or two uploads to debian then :)
<StevenK> Wanna be in Sydney now.
 * persia cheers the infinite efficiency of packet-based networks as applied to air travel
<StevenK> RAOF: Not really. :-) Beg me tomorrow?
<RAOF> Anyone else you know on your flights?
<StevenK> RAOF: TheMuso is sitting next to me.
<StevenK> RAOF: lifeless is the flight too, apparently.
<StevenK> is on, even
<RAOF> And jml?
<StevenK> Not sure about jml.
<StevenK> persia: Where are you hiding?
<persia> StevenK: I've been home for about 4 hours.
<StevenK> persia: Lucky
<persia> StevenK: No.  Just northerly
<StevenK> Heh
<RAOF> Air travel sucks.  We should tunnel through the earth.
<StevenK> Haha
<RAOF> Let gravity do the work for us!
<persia> RAOF: it:s only 43 minutes point-to-point that way, but a little warm.
<RAOF> I'm sure you could use an evacuated tube.
<RAOF> I mean, we have science, right?
<RAOF> It should work for us!
<StevenK> I have another seven-eight hour flight. :-(
<persia> RAOF: Sure.  It's still warm.  If you use an air-filled tube, it's slow, but even evacuated, there's still friction.  We need better maglev first.
<persia> On the other hand, 43 minutes PRA->SYD would make StevenK have to travel more often.
<RAOF> Why friction?  We just drill a _perfectly_ straight hole, right through the centre :)
<RAOF> And hope that our scheduling is good enough to not cause collisions.
<persia> RAOF: That limits your destinations, and then you get pressure heat from the earth.  I believe the best path is cosecant, but I haven't looked at the math for those tunnels in years.
<RAOF> Actually, you're almost certainly right.
<persia> I also seem to remember there being some limitation with nearness.  I think you have to pass over more than about 15 degrees of curvature for it to make sense.  It may be that one has to travel to a different continent to reach short-hop destinations, with a transfer.
<persia> Errr.  "pass under"
<RAOF> But at 43 minutes a pop, that's still cost-efficient.
<StevenK> Air travel can still be used for short-hop destinations.
<persia> Well, time-efficient.  I don't really want to consider the municipal-works budget.
<StevenK> Say, an hour from Sydney to Frankfurt, and then an hour from Frankfurt to Prague. Works for me.
<persia> StevenK: I guess.  Air-travel is about 1 hour per 10 degrees of curvature, right?
<persia> (assuming no transfer)
<persia> Also, technically, Sydney->Frankfurt might be hard.  I think more than about 60 degrees gets under the mantle (but I haven't looked at the math in years)
<StevenK> Which means Sydney -> Singapore first?
<persia> Without looking at a globe, something like that.  Sydney -> Singapore (under) for an hour, Singapore -> Frankfurt (under) for an hour, Frankfurt->Prague (over) for an hour.
<StevenK> I daresay I don't want to know how much that would cost to build.
<persia> Yep :)
<persia> I suspect that if anyone does it, the first tunnel will be Eastern North America -> Western Europe, which doesn't really help the current use case, but might give an idea of cost.
<persia> Might need an intermediate though, as I think that's about 90 degrees.
<Iulian> Hey
 * StevenK tries to beat his spam down
<jdavies> hey Iulian
<Iulian> Hi jdavies
<pochu> hi all!
<Iulian> Heya pochu
<pochu> yo Iulian
<jdavies> this is insane..
<txwikinger> hi pochu
<i4x> who called me? [i]nsane4oenix
<pochu> hey txwikinger
<tseliot> Â¡hola pochu!
<pochu> ciao tseliot :-)
 * StevenK waits for boarding.
 * Amaranth looks around
<soren> StevenK: Where?
<StevenK> soren: Singapore
<StevenK> soren: Another seven-eight hours, and I'll actually be in the right city
<soren> StevenK: Wow, that long?
<soren> StevenK: Are/were you flying Singapore Airlines?
<Hobbsee> soren: au is *far* away.
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: au should move closer
<soren> :)
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: i wish!
<Amaranth> even persia gets home faster
<Amaranth> heck, even i made it home faster
<persia> Amaranth: I'm equidistant from everywhere though.  Travel to/from Australia has an extra hop near here (well, near enough).
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> btw, no one exports those cigarettes :(
<Amaranth> persia: so you have to send me a crate or something ;)
 * persia pointedly fails to start an import/export business in controlled substances :P
<yannick> Hi, I've an issue with pbuilder: "pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libx264-dev which is a virtual package." Can someone help me please?
<persia> yannick: That typically means that you'll need to specify the one you want, of the form: libfoo5-dev | libfoo-dev.
<yannick> persia, I don't see which one to pick up. There is no more devel for x264...
<persia> yannick: In this specific case, I wonder which architecture you are using.  From what I can tell, that package is not virtual for i386 or amd64, and doesn't even exist for anything else.
<persia> Does your pbuilder have multiverse enabled?
<yannick> COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse" and my arch is amd64. And i do not see it as virtual too.
<persia> Hmmm.  No idea then.  You might try with a local build (expecting a failure for missing dependencies) or sbuild to see if the issue is with pbuilder-satisfydepends or with your package.
<yannick> ok, I'll try sbuild...
<emgent> heya
<sebner> emgent: huhu
 * emgent hugs sebner 
 * sebner hugs emgent back =)
<emgent> hahah
<sebner> emgent: I think they ignore our questions :P
<emgent> sebner: nah false.
<emgent> sebner: we should wait.
<sebner> emgent: bah :P
<emgent> sebner: remember, we are a big family.
<emgent> :)
<sebner> emgent: partyyyyyyyyy!!!!! =)
<emgent> gh
<emgent> heya devfil :)
<devfil> hi emgent! how are you?
<emgent> all good :P
<emgent> devfil: http://en.emanuele-gentili.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/img_2655.jpg
<devfil> emgent: did you have fun in uds intrepid?
<devfil> emgent: lol
<emgent> sure, UDS rocks!
<devfil> I'm happy for you, but stop smoking!
<emgent> hahaha, nah
<devfil> emgent: stop smoking and became motu!
<devfil> s/became/become
<emgent> uhm.. launchpad seems slow today..
<openexpo> moins (\sh here)
<Laney> lo
<porthose> how many times will intrepid be synced with debian before the debian import freeze? :) Once, twice?
<pochu> many
<emgent> heya pochu :)
<pochu> emgent! :)
<porthose> pochu: thx :)
<devfil> hi pochu
<pochu> hey hey devfil
<geser> porthose: in theory it should happen more than once a week till DIF
<devfil> pochu: I would to ask you about a wxwidgets2.8 bug
<pochu> devfil: yup, what was it?
<devfil> pochu: bug #196834. I think this isn't a bug. usr/share/doc/wx2.8-examples/examples/unpack_examples.sh if called to do the work. Maybe I should ask if you want unpack examples or no (.postinst file)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 196834 in wxwidgets2.8 "wxPython demo is not installing properly" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196834
<porthose> geser: cool thx :) then the new upstream release of my package just uploaded to debian will be imported soon (that make me soooo happy)
<pochu> porthose: if there's no Ubuntu specific changes, yes
<pochu> devfil: no, I don't think unpack_examples.sh should be called at postinst
<pochu> devfil: you can call it in debian/rules after build, if you want
<pochu> in the install target, I'd say
<devfil> pochu: I think unpacking examples should be at users choice
<devfil> in postinst I can ask if want to unpack or not and where script will unpack
<pochu> so what would you do, asking a debconf question?
<pochu> that's so weird...
<pochu> are the examples too big?
<devfil> pochu: I think 10 mb
<devfil> but I'm not sure
<devfil> pochu: however not debconf, a simply script. wxwidgets2.8 source is so big, if I will add debconf...
<pochu> if you are going to ask a question, use debconf
<pochu> but better not to add it
<pochu> where are the examples, in the -doc package?
<devfil> pochu: examples package
<pochu> Maybe add a README saying how to unpack it
<devfil> pochu: I think nobody will read it
<pochu> I hate debconf questions, so I won't sponsor that :P
<pochu> if you can think of a different solution...
<devfil> pochu: I can try with only bash script to ask, I think this is better solution because I don't need to use debconf support
<pochu> if you use that, then it's not translatable
<devfil> Maybe a simple: Do you want to unpack examples [y]? is the best think
<pochu> and it won't work with packagekit (if we ever have that in the archive)
<devfil> pochu: it is only a phrase and who developer must know english I think
<pochu> I think if you are going to ask a question, it should be with debconf and priority low
<devfil> pochu: 1.9 mb (I've readed 10.9 -_-')
<devfil> pochu: however alredy exists a README for unpack_examples
<devfil> pochu: Some of the files have been compressed in accordance with Debian policy
<devfil> regarding documentatio
<devfil> n
<devfil> pochu: to unpack them I can use dh_extrac... (I don't remember the exactly name of the tag)
<Laney> devfil: When do they get compressed? In the orig.tar.gz?
<devfil> Lanely: nono, in debian/rules
<Laney> Then there's no point compressing and uncompressing
<Laney> If it's dh_compress you can pass -X to exclude some files
<devfil> Laney: I don't need to exclude files, just unpack them in the same dir
<devfil> done, now it's time to build it
<yannick> persia, solved: pbuilder was not using multiverse. I still don't know why it doesn't take my config file in account, but adding universe at the command line is working :) thx for your help.
<ryanakca> Is it possible to merge something from Debian NEW?
<azeem> I don't think so
<geser> ryanakca: the first problem is Debian NEW isn't public
 * jdavies WTHs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14564/
<geser> bind mount?
<jdavies> I just used the makechroot script here (http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/) to make a hardy chroot and I got that
<geser> yes, bind mounts
<jdavies> found the problem
<geser> umount /home, /tmp, /proc/ and /sys from the chroot
<geser> before removing it
<jdavies> but too late..
<jdavies> geser: ah, cheers, that solved it
 * slytherin wonders how hard it is to give command 'sudo pbuilder create'
<jdavies> geser: hmm, should I take out the bind mount parts of the script for next time?
<slytherin> jdavies: bindmounts mounts the directories you specify inside the chroot. For example I have iso image mounted locally which I can use as repository inside chroot.
<jdavies> slytherin: I would like a clean chroot. Nothing in but the base stuff installed
<slytherin> jdavies: so you don't want bindmount.
<jdavies> OK, *removes*
<leleobhz> someone can tellme what can i do when a program are provided as tar.gz and are not in format program-version.tar.gz (and the uncompressed file too)
<leleobhz> mind note: in packaging
<geser> jdavies: you might need things like /proc or /sys also inside a clean chroot
<leleobhz> (and the program uses jam as constructor)
<jdavies> geser: hm, true
<geser> jdavies: and if you want to test some GUI apps from the chroot then /home and /tmp are useful too
<slytherin> leleobhz: what program is that?
<leleobhz> slytherin: handbrake.fr
<leleobhz> slytherin: i have another problem too... it "Jamfile" downloads all dependencies again
<slytherin> leleobhz: I think handbrake is already packaged, I might be wrong, Make sure you check revu
<leleobhz> slytherin: really?
<leleobhz> slytherin: revu?
<Laney> leleobhz: http://revu.tauware.de
<Laney> 'tis already being worked on by someone
<leleobhz> Laney: hmm nice
<leleobhz> Laney: and how can i help the package creation on revu?
<Laney> leleobhz: Well one person usually takes care of it, but you can mail the packager and see if he would like your help
<slytherin> leleobhz: revu is used for review of packages. A package needs to be advocated by 2 MOTUs before it gets accepted. You will need dput to upload top revu and your publick key will need to be in revu keyring
<leleobhz> slytherin: well, i have the conduct code signed on launchpad and all my keys available
<leleobhz> and now joined to revu uploaders user group
<slytherin> leleobhz: join the revu-uploaders team and ask here for keyring to be synced
<RainCT> syncing...
<RainCT> ;)
<leleobhz> slytherin: suposing my package get accepted, ill get their manteiner on ubuntu?
<leleobhz> s/get their/be the/g
<RainCT> leleobhz: not "officially" like in Debian, but yes
<leleobhz> RainCT: well, i dont care to much this...
<leleobhz> debian is too "dummy"cratic
<leleobhz> RainCT: im care with ubuntu status
 * leleobhz very interested because i mantain some packages but outside ubuntu... so may be a chance to get they in
<leleobhz> question: debian linda exists on ubuntu?
<Laney> leleobhz: linda doesn't exist any more
<leleobhz> Laney: so still the process to use only lintian?
<Laney> leleobhz: Yeah
<Laney> (AFAIK, IANAMOTU ;)
<leleobhz> ?
<Laney> I'm not a MOTU
<Laney> But I gather that lintian is all that's used
<leleobhz> oh...
<leleobhz> ok
<slytherin> Right. lintian is the only tool available. The development of linda has stopped totally.
<ryanakca> geser: ok, well, if I have a dsc of what was uploaded to Debian NEW? (I merged some Kubuntu fixes into Debian, and now I'm looking to merge those changes back into Kubuntu)
<leleobhz> talking about linda.... someone know why this error:
<leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/COMPILACOES/UBUNTU/pacotes/praat-hardy$ lintian praat_5.0.23-1_i386.changes
<leleobhz> E: praat_5.0.23-1_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<leleobhz> E: praat_5.0.23-1.tar.gz does not exist, exiting
<Laney> leleobhz: Give the -i option to lintian to get more information
<leleobhz> N:   You've specified an unknown target distribution for your upload in the
<leleobhz> N:   debian/changelog file.
<geser> ryanakca: technically it would then be a sync from somewhere else but if it doesn't hurry, I'd wait till it's in Debian unstable
<leleobhz> Laney: but im using hardy and cowbuilder
<slytherin> leleobhz: 1st error because you are not using lintian from hardy-backports. Also make sure you have installed debootstrap from hardy-backports.
<ryanakca> geser: nah, there are still some Kubuntu specific changes / configuration options to be merged, but ok. I do wish their archive maintainers would get through their list... some of them are 1 month old or more
<leleobhz> slytherin: debootstrap isnt installed
<slytherin> leleobhz: 2nd error because either you don't have a .orig.gz file or the directory name is of the form softwarename-upstream_version-debian_revision instead of just softwarename-upstream_version
<leleobhz> slytherin: .orig exists
<slytherin> geser: How can I add copyright symbol to debian/copyright file?
<leleobhz> the original tar.gz isnt available because the original source is a .zip
<leleobhz> so i need to uncompress it and recompres in debian formal
<leleobhz> t
 * leleobhz have a script to do this
<sharms> if I want to install debugging symbols for a program in hardy, do I still just add pitti's repository or is there a better method
<slytherin> sharms: see if there is already a -dbg package in repository?
<leleobhz> slytherin: ii  lintian                1.23.48~hardy1         Debian package checker
<sharms> slytherin - I am looking for w3m, don't see it
<slytherin> sharms: then use pitti's repository
<sharms> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs hardy main universe   -- Apt gets a 301 moved permanently
<sharms> ah nvm its down ddebs.ubuntu.com
<geser> slytherin: Unicode, U+00A9 Â©
<slytherin> geser: How do I write that in vim? And is it necessary to have 'copyright' or 'registered' symbols?
<Laney> slytherin: ctrl-shift-u + type 00a9
<slytherin> Laney: thanks
<geser> slytherin: iirc the copyright symbol is important
<geser> at least in the U.S. copyright law if I remember some discussions correctly
<slytherin> Laney: Not working :-(
<Laney> slytherin: Really? What happens?
<slytherin> Laney: Nothing, it just adds blank space
<Laney> You get the underlined 'u' and can type '00a9'?
<Laney> Then hit space after that
<slytherin> Laney: I got underlines u, I typed 00a9 but hit enter
<slytherin> Laney: Done, thanks. :-)
<Laney> slytherin: That should work too, weird. Maybe it's your font?
<Laney> slytherin: Ah :)
<slytherin> Laney: Space works, enter doesn't. What does it have to do with font?
<Laney> slytherin: No, nothing. If it wasn't coming up at all then it might be your font.
<Laney> slytherin: But enter and space both work for me, *shrug*
<slytherin> geser: Please let me know if this debian/copyright is clear enough - http://paste.ubuntu.com/14586/ I will be back in 10-15 minutes.
<geser> slytherin: I add unicode chars usually with: when in Insert mode: ctrl+v u00a9 and get directly a copyright symbol
<geser> slytherin: the mentioning of the licences is good, but I remember seeing copyright for the W3C from some other years too (check with "rgrep Copyright ." in the source dir)
<slytherin> geser: I saw copyright mentioned as 1994-2002. Should I make it that way?
<geser> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> geser: Ok. Any other changes?
<geser> slytherin: no
<slytherin> geser: Done. Uploaded. Thanks for guidance. :-)
<slytherin> geser: Going to bed. See you later.
<emgent> geser: hey
<geser> emgent: Hi
<emgent> sebner: fix your internet connection
<sebner> emgent: If I would know how -.-
<emgent> sebner: try with "halt" :)
<sebner> emgent: was he already online? ^^
<emgent> ye
<sebner> emgent: uhh, where can I find him?
<emgent> #canonical-sysadmin
<sebner> ember: but he is afk :\
<emgent> i know.
<sebner> since 77 hours xD
<norsetto> howdy all (sebner included)
<geser> Hi norsetto
<sebner> huhu norsetto. Thanks for that :D
<norsetto> hi geser, just seen bug 234538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234538 in findlib "[intrepid] Rebuild for ocaml 3.10.1 -> 3.10.2 transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234538
<emgent> hahaha
<sebner> emgent: hmm?
<norsetto> geser: there is a bunch of stuff in bug 234581 which also deals with this transition, for the time being they are all waiting for u-m-s to sponsor your bug ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234581 in ulex "Cduce Depends On Non-Existant Package `ocaml-nox-3.10.0`" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234581
<geser> norsetto: I've uploaded those OCaml rebuild yesterday which don't need ocaml-findlib
<geser> I'll look at the other ones once findlib got rebuild
<norsetto> geser: ok, if you may want to cover also those of bug 234581 please mark them invalid or reassign them to you. There is also a ftbfs which I'm investigating right now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234581 in ulex "Cduce Depends On Non-Existant Package `ocaml-nox-3.10.0`" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234581
<norsetto> geser: there is something funny going on with the debian archive, seems like packages.gz are not being regenerated?
<geser> norsetto: if you mean the ftbfs from bug #234846, that's normal during a transition if not all packages are rebuild in the right order
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234846 in ocamlnet "ocamlnet (2.2.9-2) FTBFS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234846
<geser> see also the current perl 5.10 transition
<norsetto> geser: I have all packages built locally, it really seems a problem with rpclocal.c
<geser> ah
<geser> norsetto: what problem do you have with the debian archive? ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz was last modified today
<norsetto> geser: I see several packages are not reported as updated, and they are not autosynced
<geser> is the autosync actually a cronjob?
<norsetto> geser: I thought it was just a problem with packages.debian.org, but then why are we not autosyncing? Some packages are really old
<geser> is the autosync already on?
<geser> I didn't have to wait for a build half a week till now
<norsetto> geser: AFAIK we are autosyncing full speed until DIF, don't know how frequently though
<geser> for hardy the buildds were so queue during the first weeks with building autosynced packages that you needed to wait half a week for a build of a package you uploaded
<norsetto> geser: that could be it then, and then its just a problem with packages.debian.org, makes sense
<ajmitch> hi
 * StevenK waves, finally back in the right country.
<StevenK> (And home, thank $DEITY)
<ajmitch> after how many hours?
<StevenK> Many. Left the hotel at Prague at 2pm, Saturday, +2
<ajmitch> fun
<sebner> gn8 folks
<RAOF> StevenK: Welcome home.
<StevenK> RAOF: Thanks!
<emgent> :)
<norsetto> huats: really touch and go eh? :-)
<norsetto> anyone know who is the leader for ubuntu-mobile?
<StevenK> norsetto: Why do you ask?
<norsetto> StevenK: err, because I want to know?
<StevenK> norsetto: Nominally, David Mandala, davidm on Launchpad
<norsetto> StevenK: ok, but he wasn't at UDS (or I don't remember him)? emgent wants to interview him for an italian linux journal
<StevenK> norsetto: David was at both FOSSCamp and UDS.
<emgent> heya StevenK
 * StevenK waves
<norsetto> StevenK: ok thx ... you recovered from the party :-) ?
<StevenK> Funny you should mention that, I was out with David helping him shop instead of at the party.
<norsetto> StevenK: ah!
<norsetto> g'night all
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-24
<imbrandon> ok forgive my ignorance and being lazy for a moment if you will and will someone give me the 1 - 2 sentance explination as to what "Zeitgeist" as it pertains to gnome ?
<imbrandon> a program ? language ? abstration layer ? ....
<ScottK> Time sequenced activity history.
<arand> imbrandon: awesomeness! (ScottK's answer is short and to the point), It's (afaik) a back-end that creates associations, time, program, place, activity, so that you later on could find out, say, what Kind of music you listened to whilst chatting with a particular person... Is one of the things it can do.
<imbrandon> ScottK / arand : ahh like a personal google, sorta
<imbrandon> seems intrusive and expensive ... maybe i'm wrong
<arand> imbrandon: Yea, but so is google And that has it's uses.
<imbrandon> :)
<amason_> imbrandon: really up to you if you use it or not.
<imbrandon> very true, just was curious i have seen alot of blogs about pieces of it lately but not much on what "it" was
<imbrandon> something i can poke into more later ;)
 * imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> ugh i have code to write tonight but i just cant motivate myself
<imbrandon> hum de dum
<BlackZ> how can I delete an old deactivated key from the ubuntu's keyserver?
<jpds> BlackZ: That's impossible.
<BlackZ> jpds: ok, BTW I have updated the key (e-mail), but I can still seen the old e-mail on ubuntu's keyserver, is that normal?
<jpds> Did you remove the old email?
<BlackZ> yeah
<jpds> Yep, that's also impossible.
<jpds> You can only add to keyservers, never remove.
<BlackZ> jpds: also, I have signed some uploaded packages with the old key and e-mail, is that a problem?
<jpds> Shouldn't be.
<BlackZ> jpds: however that is updated in my launchpad's page
<arand> chrisccoulson: Hia, talked on friday, BitlBee.. got time over to sponsor Bug #581331 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581331 in bitlbee (Ubuntu Karmic) "error message while trying to use my MSN account in bitlbee" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581331
<chrisccoulson> arand - oh yeah, sorry, i forgot about that one
<chrisccoulson> has nobody else done it yet?
<chrisccoulson> i will look at that in a bit
<arand> chrisccoulson: Nope :( seems few sponsors are around here on the weekends, or they just didn't like me..
<BlackZ> arand: I'm sure your work will be sponsored soon, keep in mind you're in a queue :)
<arand> BlackZ: Yea, true. # of bugs with patches are a hefty amount.
<BlackZ> ara: I know and I think they will be sorted out ASAP
<BlackZ> err, arand - sorry, ara
<BlackZ> arand: why is the bug still assigned to you? why is it "Fix Released" instead of "Confirmed", for example?
<arand> BlackZ: Fixed in maverick with version 1.2.7, this is for hardy..lucid, what's the policy as far ass assignments go actually, I though, since I was "in charge" of packing the SVN fix, it would be appropriate, no?
<arand> *as *thought
<BlackZ> arand: since ~ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed, you have to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<BlackZ> for example. "Do not assign a bug to anyone if it needs sponsorship."
<BlackZ> s/./,
<arand> BlackZ: Ah, hmm, I was going by that I've had been assigned to bugs (by others) in similar cases before. Right, so unassigning then.
<Migi32> don't know if this is the right channel, but I would like to inform you that Boinc in the default repositories is horribly out of date, and that I'm forced to install the latest version manually
<kobrien> greetings. I packaged my app and it compiles fine. I just need  to figure out how to get it to place the compiled files into  /usr/bin and such. Do I do it in debian/rules? Please advise
<persia> kobrien: So, there's two ways to do it.  If you're the upstream developer, it's best to do it in your build script, with an install rule.  For example, `make install`
<persia> If you're not upstream, you can work around a buggy set of build scripts with dh_install
<micahg> siretart: should I reassign the gxine bug to you?
<micahg> siretart: wrapper looks fine I think it should go to maverick first though
<lfaraone> One of my mails was flagged as possible spam to the mailing list. Shouldn't we set SpamAssassin to look kindly on GPG-signed mails? :)
<siretart> micahg: feel free to do so. what about copying it from lucid-proposed to maverick?
<siretart> how do ppl feel breaking maverick's ffmpeg at this point? ;-)
<micahg> siretart: I currently cannot push packages yet.  As for copying, idk what the current policy is, but I think that fixes are supposed to go into the devel release first again
<micahg> siretart: what will break with ffmpeg?
<siretart> micahg: upload ffmpeg 0.6 will probably break quite some applications that link against it
<micahg> siretart: ah
<siretart> no idea how severe the breakage will be, I did not do testbuilds
<siretart> but I guess I should do so in any case. soon.
<micahg> siretart: so, do you want me to find a sponsor for gxine, or do you want to push/
<siretart> I can do the upload later today
<micahg> siretart: k, thanks, I'll reassign to you
<micahg> siretart: I'll subscribe to the package to watch for regressions
<siretart> great, thanks!
<micahg> siretart: thanks for making the wrapper :)
<toabctl> hi
<toabctl> i want to build a package with pbuilder but have a dependecy on a local package version. how to solve this?
<tumbleweed> toabctl: easiest way around that is to create a simple local package repository
<toabctl> ok
<toabctl> thx
<geser> or login into pbuilder, copy all needed files inside and build there manually
<tumbleweed> yes, that's easier for once-off
<geser> I do it when I need to do it only once (was too lazy to setup a repo for just one build)
<toabctl> geser, where is the pbuilder .tgz file extracted?
<toabctl> i got the following error when i use "pdebuild": Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
<geser> usually below /var/cache/pbuilder/build/ (see the output when calling pbuilder)
<toabctl> geser, /var/cache/pbuilder/build is empty
<geser> yes as it gets cleaned up after pbuilder has finished
<toabctl> Reading task descriptions...
<toabctl> Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
<toabctl> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<toabctl> I: Copying back the cached apt archive contents
<toabctl> I: unmounting dev/pts filesystem
<toabctl> I: unmounting proc filesystem
<toabctl> I: cleaning the build env
<toabctl> I: removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//11519 and its subdirectories
<toabctl> geser, tumbleweed : that's my output. i try to build a new version of syncevolution for DIST=sid under ubuntu lucid
<geser> "pbuilder login" and you get a directory below /var/cache/pbuilder/build as long as don't exit the pbuilder
<toabctl> geser, ah. that works. thanks. and do you know what i can do against the error?
<geser> check which dependency couldn't get resolved (and why) and fix it
<toabctl> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libsynthesis-dev (>= 3.4.0.5~) but it is not going to be installed.
<toabctl> geser, what does the 4.3.0.5~ mean (especially the ~) ?
<geser> this is a versioned dependency on libsynthesis-dev. The package needs a version greater than the specified
<geser> and the ~ has a special meaning in Debian version numbers (it sorts below any other char)
<tumbleweed> the ~ allows it to be satisfied by a backport. Backports have ~ to make 3.4.0.5~bpo a lower version htan 3.4.0.5
<toabctl> hm. then i don't understand the error. libsynthesis-dev is available in version 3.4.0.5 in debian sid.
<geser> login into your sid pbuilder and try to install it. don't know about aptitude, but apt doesn't tell the real error (down the dependency chain) but only that a dependency of the package you want installed, can't get installed
<toabctl> geser, i had to do a "apt-get update" before i can install the package. pbuilder doesn't do this automatically?
<geser> no, "pbuilder update" does it (updates the whole base.tgz including the Packages files)
<toabctl> ah. "pbuilder update" does this.
<toabctl> geser, thanks!:)
<tumbleweed> you can add a pbuilder hook to apt-get update before each build
<tumbleweed> there's such a script in the examples directory, IIRC
<bdrung> ari-tczew: ping
<ari-tczew> bdrung: pong
<bdrung> ari-tczew: am i allowed to do the fakesyncs (bug #512430) under my name? this would be faster for me.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512430 in geronimo-jpa-3.0-spec (Ubuntu) "Fake sync geronimo packages (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512430
<ari-tczew> bdrung: I'm not happy for hearing this.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the alternative would be patch dch
<bdrung> dch is not able to sponsor a changelog
<bdrung> but i am not a perl hacker
<ari-tczew> bdrung: you know, I need these uploads this time. I'll be owe to you.
<bdrung> ari-tczew: you need them?
<geser> bdrung: DEBFULLNAME="foo bar" DEBEMAIL="foo@baz" dch ... doesn't work?
<persia> Nobody ever needs uploads.
<fabrice_sp> bdrung, I had to add a -k option to the ack-sync script to pass the signing key to syncpackage
<persia> Upload count isn't especially meaningful, especially if those are from syncs.
<ari-tczew> yea, same method like uploading merges
<bdrung> geser: DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL should be only set for this command. let me look at the code...
<geser> and if one needs those fakesyncs for the sponsored upload count, then I'm not sure if one is ready to apply
<bdrung> geser: he has done enough (sponsored 40 - 50 packages for him)
<geser> it was more generally speaking
<fabrice_sp> bdrung, should I push the change or you have something similar locally?
<geser> and in this case the few not counted fakesyncs shouldn't matter
<bdrung> fabrice_sp: you can push - i have no local changes
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ari-tczew> geser: I could be late for tomorrow's meeting, because we have flood in country and can be public communication problems.
<ari-tczew> s/geser/persia
 * micahg hopes they get to my item in the meeting :)
<geser> micahg: the "Mozilla Uploaders Package Set"? it's on the agenda
<micahg> geser: yes, but the mail to the list wasn't approved till Friday so I was worried that it might not be on the actual agenda
<micahg> \sh: zf 1.10.5 most likely tomorrow, so I guess you don't have to push 1.10.4
<ari-tczew> bdrung: what's next about fakesyncs?
<bdrung> ari-tczew: i have to improve the syncpackage script and use your bug for testing
<ari-tczew> bdrung: okay! fine!
<SpamapS> guidance for naming a perl package.. if the CPAN module is Memcached::libmemcached ... the package still must be named this rather silly name:   libmemcached-libmemcached-perl .. yes?
<JontheEchidna> I have seen libxml-libxml-perl in the archive
<JontheEchidna> So there is precedent, even if it is silly
<SpamapS> I actually like it
<SpamapS> I've installed many a perl module just by typing the transformed name after apt-get install.. its like a pleasnt surprise "yes, this is going to work today"
<ScottK> SpamapS: libmemcached-libmemcached-perl is correct.  If you want to get it into Ubuntu, it would probably be easier to talk to the pkg-perl people in Debian since they sponsor new perl stuff all the time.
<SpamapS> ScottK: will do.
<arand> In metacity, (and other gnome packages?) If you add a patch, should it be added before 90_autotools.patch and 99_ltmain_as-needed.patch in the series?
<pochu> arand: yes
<pochu> 90_autotools is to regenerate autotools file because of other patches, so it goes last, and 99_ltmain_as-needed goes after 90_autotools because it modifies a file autogenerated by 90_autotools, so if it went before, it would have no effect
<arand> pochu: aha, hm, is this documented anywhere? (news to me at least)
<arand> pochu: Right, it makes a lot of sense with the numbering, although, I've so far simply followed the ubuntu packaging guide by the letter, and used "quilt push -a && quilt new" regardless (slightly annoyed that some evil person had already taken all numbers in the patch prefixes :D), do over and do right, it seems...
<pochu> you don't want to do that in these cases then :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-25
<cpscotti1> bug 480772
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in Harpia "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<cpscotti1> ping cpscotti
<cpscotti1> (sorry)
<cpscotti1> Hey, could anyone sponsor/judge/give a look the sru refered in bug 480772 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in Harpia "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<mhall119> quick question, if I have a package installed at qimo-desktop_2.0.0, and then one goes into the repos at qimo-desktop_2.0.0-ubuntu1, will that new package over-write the currently installed one?
<ScottK> mhall119: Yes.
<mhall119> awesome, thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<baddog_> mornin'
<TheMuso> slytherin: Were you planning on doing the jack-audio-connection-kit merge? If not, I understand, and I'm happy to do it if you don't want to.
<slytherin> TheMuso: I haven't yet setup maverick chroot. Busy with personal life. So please go ahead.
<slytherin> TheMuso: Also since jack has moved to main, I do not have upload rights.
<stefanlsd> nigelb: heys
<eagles0513875> morning everybody
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a deb package available for 1.36 on Ubuntu hardy ?
<kaushal> for libboost-dev
<Rhonda> kaushal: Why do you want that?
<Rhonda> No, it looks like hardy has only 1.34 of boost.
<kaushal> yeah
<kaushal> but scribe requires 1.36
<kaushal> is there a ppa available for it ?
<Rhonda> I fear that would be the killer point for a backport of scribe to hardy.
<kaushal> Rhonda: is it available in backports ?
<Rhonda> kaushal: If it requires boost 1.36 then I don't think so, that's what I meant by that statement. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.
<jetienne> dh_make -e jerome.etienne@gmail.com -p neoip-get_0.0.1 -s <- this prompt the user for confirmation, is there a way to prevent it ?
<jetienne> yes | dh_make -e jerome.etienne@gmail.com -p neoip-get_0.0.1  <- this is the answer :)
<jetienne> to sign package is required for ppa ?
<jpds> Yes.
<ricotz> Laney, fyi, it is been 3 weeks since the last stable docky release, so docky 2.0.4 bugfix-release is coming soon
<Laney> oh
<Laney> i totally dropped the ball on that sru
<ricotz> Laney, would be nice if you keep on it, we are still getting bug reports for fixed ones regarding 2.0.2
<Laney> yep eyp
<Laney> yep*
<ricotz> ok ;-)
<mb__> hello
<mb__> i have a quick packaging related question
<mb__> i packaged a software with debhelper 7, but i want to be able to support debian lenny also
<mb__> how do i handle the override_dh_ stuff so i can use it in lenny?
<Laney> mb__: bpo has a sufficient version of debhelper
<jetienne> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading <- say "Simply follow the instructions in the Uploading packages to this PPA section of your PPA overview page." but where is this page ?
<mb__> Laney: i cannot rely on my users to use bpo :(
<Laney> you expect your users to be building the package?
<jetienne> ok trying pre-9.10 version of ppa uploading then
<Laney> PPA support in #launchpad
<BlackZ> when I do the modify of a debian package, (-0ubuntu1, for example), should I modify the mantainer's address?
<tumbleweed> BlackZ: -0ubuntu1 isn't modification, it's a new upstream version bypassing debian
<mb__> Laney: not really, i expect the to run it only, but if there were an easy way to support building, i'd like to include it
<Laney> "enable the backports repo" :)
<Laney> BlackZ, tumbleweed: It is, and yes you should
<tarzeau> hello
<tarzeau> does anyone have time to check a revu package?
<cpscotti> tarzeau: I can't advocate but I can check if I see something wrong
<cpscotti> which is the package?
<tarzeau> cpscotti: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fracplanet
<tarzeau> cpscotti: like i could also check other packages, and comment them?
<tarzeau> does that help people that can advocate packages there?
<cpscotti> yep..
<cpscotti> sometimes you can stop a simple flaw quickier and thus everything gets faster
<tarzeau> cpscotti: i see, well it's one of my first packages
<tarzeau> if i can see some progress, commenting other packages, i'll continue using it
<tarzeau> but for the moment revu feels like mentors.debian.net (like nothing happens)
<cpscotti> for example, your changelog should link to a launchpad bug number
<tarzeau> people find their sponsors elsewhere, certainly not there
<tarzeau> cpscotti: i don't have a launchpad bug, i only got a debian itp bug
<cpscotti> (and the bug should say something like "needs packaging"
<cpscotti> maybe it would be cool to add one
<tarzeau> i see, well either i'll automate changelogs of new packages for debian+ubuntu, or i just don't do new packages for ubuntu
<tarzeau> but wait, ubuntu does NOT want people to do work twice
<tarzeau> that's what they state on their webpages about package development help
<cpscotti> if the package comes from debian
<cpscotti> there is a slightly different procedure
<cpscotti> seems you can only upload to debian
<tarzeau> i think i just stay with debian, and get them in there
<cpscotti> and then file a bug like "needs to fetch from debian"
<tarzeau> yes but this can take quite some time
<tarzeau> debian has some problem called "lack of sponsor time"
<cpscotti> yehp.. I agree
<cpscotti> to bypass this you can package it directly for ubuntu
<tarzeau> i thought ubuntu was better in this part, since i've find quite a bunch of packages in there, not yet in debian
<tarzeau> yeah but that sucks, since i'd have to create a different changelog
<cpscotti> (yep.. seems to me that the community is more active
<tarzeau> i got two debian sid boxes i create/test debian packages on
<tarzeau> and i'll have to use another box to make new packages on ubuntu
<tarzeau> doesn't for me, however i'd prefer ubuntu using/allowing debian itp bug closings/changelog entries
<cpscotti> well.. probably there's more people here with specific knowledge on this debian/ubuntu thing
<tarzeau> instead of wanting their own thing, just because it's NIH
<tarzeau> when i look at the revu.ubuntuwire.com webpage, i can see multiple pages of uncommented, unadvocated packages
<tarzeau> so it doesn't look much better than in debian
<cpscotti> well.
<cpscotti> when I had to pass my app through REVU it was pretty fast
<cpscotti> and responsive
<tarzeau> is revu also for upgrading existing packages?
<Rhonda> tarzeau: how should lack of sponsor time be much better in ubuntu than in debian? are there more sponsors in ubuntu?
<cpscotti> (indeed I had to make some noise here )
<tarzeau> Rhonda: i had no idea, i just hoped so. but as your rhetorical question says, it's not the case
<tarzeau> ok 3 more days, and i've got holidays :)
<cpscotti> tarzeau: if you continue with the ubuntu packaging, another thing is to change "Maintainer: GÃ¼rkan SengÃ¼n.." to "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<cpscotti> your name comes in "Original-Maintainer: GÃ¼rkan SengÃ¼n.."
<tarzeau> cpscotti: i see, ok ok, you don't have to look any further
<tarzeau> cpscotti: there's no script to convert between new debian package to new ubuntu package the debian/* part?
<tarzeau> that'd make sense, actually i could write that script, but i'm not sure it's worth it
<cpscotti> probably there IS such thing already
<tarzeau> how would i find it?
<tarzeau> iulian: ping
<cpscotti> google.. :)
<eagles0513875> hey guys i have a packaging question and im already looking at the guide if i want to make a package for the current version of kubuntu ill obviously need to repackage it according to the ubuntu conventions. but what if i want to package something for maverick then what?
<eagles0513875> do i use a lucid environment to package for maverick or a maverick environment
<bilalakhtar> eagles0513875: use a chroot for maverick
<bilalakhtar> eagles0513875: to do this, use pbuilder
<bilalakhtar> eagles0513875: ask others for more info on how to build packages for maverick in a chroot running on a lucid host
<eagles0513875> bilalakhtar: isnt the packaging guide detailed enough to get the basic idea of how to do it
<bilalakhtar> eagles0513875: use this guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<eagles0513875> bilalakhtar: ok im not quite ready to do any packaging but thanks
<shadeslayer> hey,i have .install files in my debian/ folder , do i need to specify dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp seprately in debian/rules?
<carstenh> shadeslayer: iirc only if you use an old debhelper version, dh 7 sets this option automatically, but man debhelper is less errorprone than random people in irc
<shadeslayer> carstenh: i did see man dh_install but i was unsure whether or not i was required to put it in
<carstenh> shadeslayer: man debhelper, search for V7
<carstenh> ... by typing /V7enter
<carstenh> and then n to skip the first hit
<shadeslayer> carstenh: ah thanks :)
<nigelb> stefanlsd: will you be free over the week to help me with documentation?
<jetienne> this ppa stuff is not easy for a beginner :)
<Ng> for an autofoo based project, would one expect to be doing the autogen.sh invocation as part of the build, or should that already be done in the creation of the upstream release? (I'm actually packaging something that has no release, from its git repo)
<Laney> Ng: upstreams usually run `make dist' to create their tarball
<Laney> which runs autogen.sh
<Ng> Laney: k, ta
 * Ng sitting outside with his laptop for the first time in forever, so it seems like an appropriate time to have a package of mbm-gpsd ;)
<jetienne> q. is it possible to add comment in the control file ?
<persia> tumbleweed: My apologies.  I hope you'll come back next week, and given the discussed new structure, it's likely you'll be significantly nearer the start of the meeting :)
<tumbleweed> persia: np, I'll be there again in two weeks
<tumbleweed> I had a feeling the agenda was full
<tumbleweed> I don't have the strongest application, anyway :/
<persia> tumbleweed: Well, with two more weeks, you have every opportunity to improve it :)
<tumbleweed> heh yes
<c_korn> jetienne: I think all lines beginning with # are comments
<jetienne> c_korn: thx. indeed i found the answer meanwhile
<jetienne>  this file may also contain comment lines starting with # without any preceding whitespace. <- http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html for a precise reference
<jetienne> i got compilation running, even some linking :)
<jetienne> it built!!!
<randomaction> We normally don't SRU new upstream versions (from stable branch), do we?
<andreserl> randomaction, SRU are minimal diff's which means only bugfixes
<andreserl> randomaction, you can backport though
<randomaction> In this case the delta between upstream versions is 5 bugfixes, 1 of them critical.
<persia> We can SRU entire upstream versions if we want.
<persia> But to avoid people claiming we're crazy, we usually drop the bit of the diff that actually updates the version number.
<cpscotti> persia: lol
 * Laney is about to prepare exactly such an SRU
<Laney> â¦but was going to change the version number ;(
<persia> Doesn't matter that much, but some end-users will complain whichever way you do it.
<persia> Some people want "stability" and get worried when versions change.  Some people want "fresh" and get worried when versions don't change.  I believe the majority just want it to work and are glad for the fixes, but they don't seem to write as much email instructing us on how we should do things.
<cpscotti> So.. in order to please the ones in favour of minimal bug fixes, can someone check the SRU in  bug 480772 ? It is as minimal as possible :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in Harpia "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<cpscotti> persia: there are even the guys that although liking fresh & stable, when something breaks they just feel bad because they were not beta testers before...
<cpscotti> like.... "its my fault"
<cpscotti> hehe
<persia> cpscotti: That's a nice clean small diff, but one also needs to take care to err on the side of being complete (I don't have enough background on that bug to know if it's correct from a quick glance)
<cpscotti> persia:  what do you mean by "err"
<persia> cpscotti: Those are wonderful users, to be treasured.  They are often willing to test, and help make sure it works.  In most cases, I've found they quickly learn to care more about "Does it work" than the version numbers.
<cpscotti> Yup!
<persia> cpscotti: err: (v) :
<persia> to make a mistake or be incorrect; stray: wander from a direct course or at random
<cpscotti> ahh ok
 * persia suddenly wonders if erratrix is a valid word, although is unable to come up with an application in English due to unsexed nouns
<Laney> Where are the UDD branches for SRUs?
<Laney> ubuntu/$release-proposed/$package?
<persia> I thought it was ubuntu/$release/$package
<Laney> no pocket separation?
<persia> But I can see the argument for it not being so.
<Laney> -proposed doesn't work, so I'll just go with ""
 * persia is relatively uninformed about UDD, so defers to someone more knowledgeable
 * Laney wonders if this is even a good workflow
<Laney> (merge from development, commit, fix up to be SRUable, push)
<kklimonda> Laney: I've seen ubuntu/$release-proposed/$package linked to sru bugs but I couldn't push branch into lp:~login/ubuntu/$release-proposed/$package
<Laney> james_w: can you advise?
<james_w> kklimonda: you need to add a branch name at the end
<james_w>  /sru-for-bug-12345 or something
<kklimonda> james_w: will it be possible to push branches to lp:ubuntu/$pocket/$package in the future? and can I read somewhere about current plans for packaging branches and similar things? for example are you planning on dropping patching systems and doing all patching using vcs mechanisms? I can't find anything substantial about that and it's really interesting subject
<james_w> kklimonda: you can push to lp:ubuntu/$pocket/$package if $package has already been uploaded to $pocket
<james_w> allowing you to create it should be possible, would you file a bug against 'udd' please?
<james_w> as for dropping patching systems, that's the long term goal, but it's not easy to get right, and a bunch of code has to be written to make it possible
<kklimonda> james_w: but I still have to upload source package anyway, right? I still can't just push a branch to the lp:ubuntu/$pocket/$release and make LP build package from it?
<james_w> not yet
<persia> It's probably easier to make a Format: 3.0 (quilt) -> Format: 3.0 (bzr) translator, and just wait for the arrchive to transition.
<james_w> that work is underway though
<persia> Some things you can do with some of the patch systems aren't currently replicable in a VCS.
<persia> (e.g. running sed as the first part of a dpatch prior to patch application, when the source filed against which sed is run is unknown, or produced by an earlier line in the dpatch)
<kklimonda> huh, do you have an example of that? :)
<persia> Not offhand, no.
<kklimonda> or a better explanation - it sounds.. magical ;)
<kklimonda> or maybe hacky is a better world
<kklimonda> word*
<persia> I know that one of the packages I touched back when I was adding .desktop files to evreything constructed a .png in a dpatch.
<persia> (which .png is only available at build-time, and not visible at package-construction time (although it may have onece been)
<kklimonda> but wouldn't it be the same as making the .png file in the debian/rules as a part of build process?
<persia> No, because this was a CDBS package, and had no make entries in debian/rules
 * persia has encountered any number of folk who package software and prefer to avoid using make syntax whenver possible.
<ScottK> Also it'd be really nice to get Format 3.0 (bzr) accepted in Debian so we could be assured we wouldn't end up with two different versions of the format.
<persia> I remember one case where someone wanted to use a shell script, and got stuck, and I sent them a patch to do it in deboian/rules, and they used this patch to determine how to do it in an external shell script.
<kklimonda> persia: :D
<kklimonda> I agree that Makefile syntax isn't the nicest one but still.. :)
<persia> Right.  Anyway, for the awkward bits (like dpatch or odd source manipulation in the build rule, etc.), it's probably better not to try to abstract some way to turn that into VCS revisions.
<persia> it's too easy to get wrong.  For the case where it's known how it works (e.g. 3.0 (quilt), it makes more sense.
<Laney> If an SRU is essentially a backport from M, and a patchsys has been added, should this be kept or reverted to keep the changes "minimal"?
<kklimonda> Laney: I'd keep changes minimal.
<Laney> as it's a new upstream release, the diff isn't really 'minimal' anyway ;)
<Laney> but I don't really mind
<Guest22063> Hi all, I just got my package released into Debian sid and i would like to know the process to register it in Ubuntu
<Guest22063> I understood it is automatic but I am not sure
<geser> it's semi-automatic, an archive admin has to run a script
<Guest22063> ok
<Guest22063> Where do i have to ask about it? Is there a special bug repport?
<Laney> you can file a sync request to make sure it gets done
<Laney> !sync
<ubottu> Helpful information for filing a sync request can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<Laney> http://dpaste.com/199146/ â why does this talk about maverick? do I need to care?
<Guest22063> Many thanks for those informations
<james_w> Laney: nope
<james_w> Laney: it's using the maverick branch's revision data where possible
<Laney> oh, that's cool
<Laney> thanks for the clarification
<james_w> np
<ScottK> Laney: There's really no need for a sync bug.
<ScottK> Guest22063: Up until Debian Import Freeze, if it's in Debian it will get imported.
<Laney> ScottK: For a NEW package, I believe they're not being processed regularly
<ScottK> There's nothing you need to do.
<ScottK> Laney: That's true, but they are still processed.  A sync bug is just pointless paperwork priori to DIF.
<ScottK> Filing a sync request probably won't get it done any sooner.
<Laney> I was under the impression that it would as the new-source list isn't being seriously done (I've seen Colin asking for pokes if folks care for specific NEW syncs), but I defer
<ScottK> Laney: If it's specifically urgent for some reason, yes, but just to make sure it gets in it's absolutely not needed.
<Laney> right
<Guest22063> So I should not ask anything... I hope it will be import before the debian freeze....
<Legendario> i'd like to ask why a package leaves the repositories. Can anyone tell me the policy for that?
<geser> in most cases when it's unmaintained and too buggy
<ajmitch_> morning
<Laney> ricotz: we still need test cases for this sru
<Laney> i've done the packaging part
<cpscotti> Another potential SRU (I believe it is ready.. but you all know how things are..) : bug 480772 ; A User app that is unusable, fix is minimum and regarding parameters to a gcc call.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in Harpia "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<ScottK> Legendario: If there is a specific package you have questions about we can help you find the reason it was removed.
<ajmitch_> cpscotti: why is it marked as fix released in lucid?
<cpscotti> ajmitch_:  well.. I meant "the fix itself" is there.. attached.. for lucid-proposed
<ajmitch_> fix released is only for when it's hit -updates, it'll be overlooked otherwise :)
<cpscotti> oh.. sorry
<cpscotti> ajmitch_: I misunderstood whats written on the sru page then
<cpscotti> did u change it?
<cpscotti> (should I?)
<ajmitch_> I just changed to in progress
<cpscotti> thanx
<ajmitch_> which may not be right, but it'll show up on bug searches :)
<ajmitch> has it been fixed in maverick?
<cpscotti> yes
<ajmitch> great
<cpscotti> but maverick is using the next upstream version
<cpscotti> the attached debdiff aims at being totally minimal
<ajmitch> thanks, that'll help it get SRU approval
<cpscotti> I believe I included all the descriptions/test case there... let me know if there is something missing
<ajmitch> I'm not in the SRU team, but I'll subscribe them
<cpscotti> ok
<ajmitch> I see you're part of upstream for it?
<cpscotti> yes
<Laney> did we agree on a suffix for fakesyncs?
<Laney> fakesync1 wasn't it?
<imbrandon> afternoon all
<ari-tczew> Laney: XfakesyncY is alive, why not?
<Laney> is "alive"? I was just wondering what the result of the recent discussion was.
<ari-tczew> ubuntu-devel has discussed this question since February, IIRC
<ari-tczew> Laney: have you got any objections cosidering to fakesync versioning?
<Laney> no, I just want to know what to use for the one I'm about to upload :)
<geser> IIRC the discussion calmed down without any decision
<ari-tczew> I remember that we have discussion in February/March about it with bdrung and sebner and they prefer to use XfakesyncY
 * sebner shows up
<sebner> TADAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<sebner> ari-tczew: full ack
 * sebner waves at geser and Laney :D
<Laney> hello
<ari-tczew> e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/polkit-qt-1/0.95.1-1fakesync1
<ajmitch> sebner: shall we hide now?
<jpds> sebner: tada.mav*
<jpds> wav*
 * sebner prepares rotten tomatoes for ajmitch :P
<sebner> jpds: :)
<ajmitch> sebner: you make me feel so welcome
<Laney> if only they were fresh ones you could make a lovely soup :(
 * sebner reigns with fear and terror!
<sebner> Laney: I don't like tomatoe soup :D
 * ajmitch wishes this lucid ISO would just download faster
<Laney> subject: [ubuntu/maverick] agda-stdlib 0.3-3fakesync (Accepted)
<Laney> tada
<Laney> (.wav)
<sebner> Laney: fakesync1?
<Laney> nein
<ajmitch> fakesyncs are so ugly
<Laney> there can not be more than one fakesync
<sebner> Laney: rebuild of a fakesync :P
<Laney> +build1!
<ari-tczew> Laney: no
<sebner> Laney: nope, not for fakesyncs
<ajmitch> +reallynoimeanthistime
<Laney> what?
<sebner> Laney: 1fakesync1 -> rebuild -> 1fakesync2
<ari-tczew> if md5sum of ubuntu's  tarball is not the same as md5sum debian's tarball, then you should use Xfakesync1
<Laney> 1fakesync -> rebuild -> 1fakesync+build1
<sebner> Laney: nope
<ari-tczew> +1 sebner ^^
<ajmitch> sebner: 0.3-3fakesync can be renumbered to have a a number on the end anyway
<Laney> why am I being noped?
<Laney> it really matters very little
<sebner> Laney: because you are wrong
<sebner> Laney: policy! ftw
<sebner> even if he don't have an official one xD
<Laney> show me this policy
<sebner> ^_^
 * Laney rolleyes
<geser> sebner: http://googlethis.blogs.linkbucks.com/files/2009/05/attack_of_the_killer_tomatoes.jpg :)
<sebner> geser: lol :D
 * ajmitch gets back to doing a messy merge stuff, tomatoes would be nice
<sebner> Laney: grep the mail discussion from February about it. We finished it, it's just not official (yet)
<ajmitch> because everyone loves version numbers like 1.4.0~git20100322.dfsg.2-4ubuntu1
 * geser waits for the first upload of -Xfakesync1ubuntu1build1 :)
 * sebner prepares loads of rotten tomatoes for that person!
<ajmitch> gah, 37MB orig.tar.gz
 * ajmitch does not want to have to upload this
<sebner> ajmitch: I'm feeling with you
<ari-tczew> geser: maybe -+nmuXfakesync1ubuntu1build1-10.04 :>
<geser> ajmitch: be lucky not to have merge texlive-extra
<ajmitch> I'll upload from a VPS which can fetch the orig.tar.gz
<ajmitch> geser: that one is 150MB or more?
<geser> 494 575,9 kB
<ajmitch> ...
<ajmitch> ok, you win
 * sebner thinks pulseaudio has the longest versionsstrings in the archive
<sebner> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-32-g8478-0ubuntu15
<sebner> ftw!
<ajmitch> ugly
<sebner> think about he possibilities when adding -Xfakesync+ rebuild :D
 * ajmitch is not going to fakesync heimdal
<Laney> I don't see many possibilities
<sebner> Laney: add git versioning too :D
<Laney> s'alright, there will be no fakesync next time
<ajmitch> Laney: we'll just blame the debian maintainer then :)
<Laney> blame the Ubuntu uploader
<Laney> â¦same person :'(
 * ajmitch had seen that
<ajmitch> but didn't you upload to ubuntu first & get the debian upload sponsored?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> actually, you're right
<Laney> Joachim failed to use pristine-tar correctly!
 * Laney celebrates
<ajmitch> heh
 * sebner facepalms
<Laney> something wrong?
<Legendario> ScottK, envyng-gtk
<geser> Legendario: "superseded by jockey" (topmost entry at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/envyng-gtk/+publishinghistory)
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<ScottK> As long as only rebuilds are being done, there's no reaon not to just increment fakesyncX
<Legendario> geser, the problem is that sometimes jockey doesn't recognize the video card
<Legendario> and we can force the installation by using envyng
 * sebner full acks with ScottK :D
<ScottK> Legendario: Then file bugs against jockey so it can be fixed.
<kklimonda> Legendario: envy has never been a solution but a hack. in Lucid, due to changes made to the drivers infrastructure in Ubuntu it was no longer possible to support it.
<kklimonda> and the right approach is to fix jockey as ScottK suggested :)
<Legendario> kklimonda, i am asking that because a friend told me he wasn't been able to install it from jockey. So I told him to do it through envy but it wasn't in the repos anymore. I don't know about this driver change but besides it being a hack, it used to work pretty well on this cases
<imbrandon> Legendario: i would file a bug as to why it dident work, as Canonical hired the author of Envy some time back just to make sure it did work
<Sarvatt> Legendario: what situation does jockey not recognize the video card? that should only happen if the person was silly enough to remove the modaliases (like say with a sudo apt-get purge nvidia*)
<Legendario> Sarvatt, imbrandon, i dont know what happened but what he reported me was that it was an install or update. I don't know. I just wondered what made the package go away. But this kind of problem already happened to me. Although it was a long time ago
<Sarvatt> it's pretty common for people to sudo apt-get purge nvidia* which screws up jockey unfortunately :(
<Sarvatt> i'm sure thats what happened
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-26
<kklimonda> Sarvatt: maybe you should make ubuntu-desktop depend on modaliases? most people get wary when they notice it's being removed.
<micahg> persia: ping
<aalex> Hello. Can my package get into Lucid? I would really like it to be in the current LTS for the next 2 years.
<aalex> It's called scenic. It's on a PPA: http://launchpad.net/~sat-metalab/+archive/metalab/+packages
<aalex> It's a high-quality audio-video-MIDI bidirectional streaming software
<crimsun> no, you can't. Lucid frozen over a month ago.
<crimsun> froze *
<aalex> Even in the Universe?
<crimsun> yes, even.
<crimsun> the *entire* archive.
<micahg> aalex: if you get it in maverick, you can add get it added to -backports if it doesn't need any other new dependencies
<aalex> Ok then. If it's on Debian testing before June 24th it should be in Maverick?
<crimsun> unstable.
<aalex> micahg, That's very interesting. Way to go.
<aalex> crimsun, unstable? even easier! :)
<micahg> aalex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<aalex> Scenic is a desktop application, so that would make sense to backport it.
<aalex> Do I have to wait until Maverick is out before to file that bug ? :)
<RAOF> There's also going to be a new process for âcool new apps on lucidâ, but it's basically a work around for some technical problems in -backports.
<aalex> I guess my bug should point to the package in Maverick, so I should at least wait until it's on Ubuntu's web site.
<RAOF> Once it's in Maverick you can file the backport bug.
<aalex> ok! thanks guys. :)
<aalex> Can I already create a pbuilder with maverick as a $DIST? If so, I could build my package right away...
<aalex> At least test it.
<aalex> Well... it must be only after the 24th. I'm better to get it uploaded to Debian
<arand> aalex: Yes maverick is available for pbuilder on lucid, at least.
<aalex> arand, cool! :)
<mase_wk> hey guys,  i have a git branch which contains my ./debian directory. Is there a) a way to tell lintian to ignore my .git directory as its not included in my debian/rules and b) construct the orig.tar.bz2 automagically ?
<RAOF> aalex: And, yes, you're better off trying to get it uploaded to Debain :)
<RAOF> mase_wk: You can build your package with git-buildpackage; this can do both.  Although you almost certainly want to also have a .orig.tar.bz2 (or .gz) somewhere public, too.
<aalex> There is no tools such as a hg-buildpackage, eh?
<RAOF> Actually, I think there is.
<RAOF> But it's probably not as well developed as {svn,bzr,git}-buildpackage.
<mase_wk> RAOF: ok i'll have a look at git-buildpackage. I don't currently have anywhere that hosts a tar.bz2 and to be honest i don't see much point considering people have access to the entire git repo ,if they want the plain source they can get any revision/ branch they want with git.
<RAOF> mase_wk: And is every revision of your software equally useful?
<mase_wk> in master yes, or unless i mess up, all of the tags are equally useful.
<mase_wk> i'll build stable packages for debian but people will need git for unstable/ experimental
<cpscotti> Hey, anyone there from the sru team? Could you check bug 480772 ? I believe the sru is ready for evaluation.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in harpia (Ubuntu Lucid) "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<RAOF> It's nice to have publically accessible release tarballs, too; among other things, we have tools which inform us when there's a new release if you've got a well-defined tarball location.
<fabrice_sp> cpscotti, a normal sponsor can check your debdiff, test the fix, and upload it to -proposed. After that, the ack from SRU team is required, but not at that point
<fabrice_sp> I have the first steps (until upload to -proposed) in my todo list
<cpscotti> ahh ok.. thanks fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
<fabrice_sp> by the way, why the compilation flag is necessary?
<cpscotti> (I fixed the issues you pointed.. )
<fabrice_sp> cool: I have  more things to do before checking that
<cpscotti> fabrice_sp: the new opencv uses c++
<fabrice_sp> but I hope to be able to do it this morning
<fabrice_sp> ok
<cpscotti> fabrice_sp: so when compiling a C program that uses it.. you have two options: g++ or "gcc -x c++"
<cpscotti> since the generated programs are indeed just C, we opted for the -x
<fabrice_sp> ok: i knew about g++, but not about -x option
<fabrice_sp> thanks for the explanation
<cpscotti> I didn't know about it also.. but some guy sent it to me by mail and it felt just "right"
<cpscotti> fabrice_sp: thanks for the evaluation and all
<fabrice_sp> thanks to you for working on it!
<cpscotti> have a nice day (I'm going to sleep now.. ehehe)
<fabrice_sp> :-) Good night
<cpscotti> thanks
<cpscotti> bye
<mase_wk> RAOF: k, i'll consider that in the future. I found the whole packaging process occupying more time than i really wanted to spend in order to make other peoples lives easier so for now just having a lintian approved .deb is more than adequate. I can make sure that ubuntu /debians version is kept up to date.
<RAOF> mase_wk: What about other distributions?  That's another consideration.
<mase_wk> RAOF: well i looked at fedora / Suse RPM's and they didn't seem much simpler so it's not something specific to debian. That is next weekends challenge. Slackware tgz's were pretty easy though =)
<RAOF> mase_wk: I meant: making it easier for maintainers in other distributions to pick up your app is probably worth a little time, but you'll certainly be overtasked creating packages for *all* distributions.
<mase_wk> well fedora and debian are using git now aren't they ? i assumed that by having everything in git, it would make life easier for them, i could accept patches specific to  the debian / fedora branches so they don't have to do much maintenance downstream
<mase_wk> and ubuntu gets it's stuff directly from debian no?
<RAOF> I'm not sure about Fedora; Debian doesn't have a (traditional) VCS at all.
<mase_wk> oh ok
<mase_wk> i was under the impression they were moving to git
<RAOF> Some Debian maintainers use git, but that's entirely optional, and many use no VCS, many use svn, many use bzr, etc.
<RAOF> We're moving to bzr, but slowly.
<ScottK> I think Fedora/RH is still using CVS, but I'm not sure.
<mase_wk> ScottK: pretty sure they just moved ( or will for next release) to git
<ScottK> It wouldn't suprise me.  It's not something I particularly keep up on.
<RAOF> I think they *are* planning to move to git, but they were in CVS last time I looked at a package.
<mase_wk> just trying to find a way to make life easy for maintainers so they don't have to do much work, but also keep the distro specific stuff upstream so if j-random user wants to make debs/ rpms of a specific tree so that users can test something that they can do it easily enough
<mase_wk> i mean, if we fix bugs that should be safe for the LTS releases we can push them into a branch at the time we do it, the maintainers can pull the branch and see exactly what we have changed and why
<mase_wk> and theoretically merge with what they already have on the /debian or /fedora branch
<RAOF> I tend to just make sure that ./configure --prefix=$HOME/.local does the right thing; that makes it trivial for motivated users to test locally, without breaking anything else.
<mase_wk> well the software is not using autotools /make . infact i was disappointed that the debian/rules file had forced me to use make
<RAOF> Does whatever build tool you're using have an equivalent feature?
<mase_wk> still not sure why, there seems to be a build dep option in the config, so surely as long as the software needed to build the package is also  free software you should be able to use anything you like right?
<mase_wk> RAOF: it's basically a clone of apache ANT in python i think
<mase_wk> allows easy xslt translation
<RAOF> debian/rules is (kinda) defined to be a makefile with specific targets.  It's basically just a simple build-oriented programming language.
<mase_wk> i mean the whole make thing isn't a big deal but it meant i needed to duplicate work i'd already done
<RAOF> Why?  Surely your build: target would just call your existing buildsystem; that's the intention.
<mase_wk> well this maybe my lack of experience showing through, but i did try that , and i couldn't get it to give me any actual content in the package. The files don't need to be compiled, they are essentially just dynamic libraries that need to be copied from one place to another with a config file change.
<mase_wk> i ended up having to add a whole bunch of dh_ prefixed utils in order to get it copied over
<mase_wk> and even then i was still having trouble with getting the documentation installed.
<mase_wk> when i have the files in front of me i'll post to the mailing list with some questions
<ScottK> mase_wk: If you use distutils with setup.py, the whole of debian/rules only needs to be three lines.
<mase_wk> i'm probably doing a few things wrong.
<mase_wk> i ended up grabbing a few 'similar' applications and using lines from the rules file until it worked
<mase_wk> ScottK: so if i use distutils can i still use git-buildpackage ?
<ScottK> I would think so, but I don't use it, so no promises.
<mase_wk> it's not all python. some is just xml files/xslt templates etc..
<ScottK> You can install data files with distutils.
<mase_wk> ok cool, i'll look into it . It seems everyone has their own way of packaging, I've spoken to a few people in here and everyone seems to recommend something different.
<mase_wk> or are all these tools just wrappers around other tools for specific use cases ?
<ScottK> There are many ways to do it.
<ScottK> Python distuilts is a standard method of making Python distributions, so the Debian packaging tools understand how to use it to make a .deb (essentially).
<ScottK> So when you use common upstream build systems in standard ways, it's generally pretty easy to make a sane package.
<ScottK> If you use a less common build system, then you need to do more of the work yourself.
<mase_wk> well what i'm using is common for people who use xslt alot :)
<lifeless> all 2 of them
<mase_wk> exactly
<mase_wk> i has a very small use case
<mase_wk> anyhoo thank you all for your help.
<dholbach> good morning
<tarzeau> good morning
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> anyone fancy uploading some no-change rebuilds?
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/armel.png â start at the top
<kklimonda> Laney: lol?
<kklimonda> Laney: is haskell really that bad at keeping stable abi (or whatever it's supposed to be keeping stable ;) )
<Laney> they make no guarantees
<Laney> :(
<kklimonda> how do you generate this graph?
<kklimonda> debtree |dot.. something creates uglier one
<kklimonda> this one is actually readable
<kklimonda> well, as readable as it can be
<Laney> parsing the sources file from the archive
<suji>  when i setup chroot for lucid in jaunty system i got this error http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/P1h34QsJ
<siretart> hm. anyone knows what's wrong with maverick's libdirectfb-dev?
<sebner> jdong: willing to ack a SRU?
<om26er> patches are not applied during build process (debian/rules contain: http://pastebin.org/283067) what am I doing wrong?
<om26er> my bad seems like I was making a mistake.. now the patch was applied.
 * ricotz hopes sebner is talking about docky ;-)
<sebner> heh
<sebner> ricotz: indeed
<ricotz> sebner, good :)
<sebner> ricotz: I'm annoyed that you still can't place the system icons on the right freely, even though I saw a bzr commit about it once
<ricotz> sebner, our docky icon will stay there, but if you don't like it you can turn it off in gconf
<sebner> ricotz: nah, I mean the built-in stuff on the right like "Show Desktop", Trash etc
<ricotz> sebner, we don't expose all setting-options to have a clean and simple preferences window
<ricotz> sebner, ah sorry, you can file a wishlist bug, i think there isnt one yet
<sebner> ricotz: so I was wrong? I thought I saw a bzr commit about it, that's not wishlist then :P
<ricotz> sebner, you want to be able to put docklets on the left of the starter-window-manager
<sebner> ricotz: not even that, just put around icons on the right side
<ricotz> sebner, please file a bug and describe what you have in mind
<ricotz> sebner, you want to rearrange their order with dnd?
<sebner> ricotz: exactly, sorry for explaining it that bad
<ricotz> sebner, this isnt possible, and there is a bug regarding this feature
<ricotz> sebner, you can move them in docklet tab of the preferences window if you use the ppa version
<sebner> ricotz: why isn't it possible? It's possible to configure the order in the settings, why not dnd
<ricotz> sebner, this is a more code-design problem
<sebner> ricotz: BUUGGGGG! :P
<ricotz> yeah, i got it
<sebner> ricotz: really weird though, it works on the "left" side with normal icons but not on the right side, wth is the code-design?
<ricotz> sebner, you can move item inside a "container" but you can't move a container
<sebner> ricotz: why don't make the right side a container itself?
<ricotz> sebner, goto #docky
<sebner> ricotz: right, pretty much OT
<DeeJay1> hmm, where can I find debug symbols for /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 ?
<JontheEchidna> !find /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1
<ubottu> Package/file /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 does not exist in lucid
<JontheEchidna> Perhaps there's a libexpat1-dbgsym package in the ddeb repo?
<JontheEchidna> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DebuggingProgramCrash
<JontheEchidna> If it's not in the ddebs repo, then I'd say that you'd probably have to compile expat yourself
<DeeJay1> ah, thanks
<DeeJay1> looks like I'd have to compile it :/
<geser> DeeJay1: which package version of libexpat1?
<geser> DeeJay1: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/e/expat/ contains the ddebs for libexpat1
<DeeJay1> no sparc ;)
<jcastro> ScottK: ok so at the session the idea was to how to grow the -server channel for contributors, but we realized that the server community is too small, so splitting the channel didn't make sense
<jcastro> ScottK: oops, wrong channel, sigh
<bilalakhtar> My package gnome-media-player was uploaded to the universe 2 weeks ago. Now, it has been built and the binaries have cleared the new queue. The package closes a needs-packaging bug. But still it is not set to "Fix Released" When will it happen? Or will I have to set it?
<JontheEchidna> bilalakhtar: For new packages, you will have to close the needs-packaging bug manually
<bilalakhtar> JontheEchidna: oh
<JontheEchidna> bilalakhtar: Since the needs-packaging bug isn't filed against a package, LP won't close the bug via the changelog file of the package, basically.
<bilalakhtar> ok, got it,
<ScottK> Which sort of highlights the pointlessness of needs-packaging bugs.
<Rhonda> Hmmm, ITP bugs in the Debian BTS work. :)
<sommer> is there a great package to use a debconf example?
<ScottK> Rhonda: They do, but Debian works on a different scale.  Here you can pretty much look on REVU and see if the package you are interested in is there.
<Rhonda> ScottK: here you can pretty much look on mentors and see if the package you are interested in is there?  ;)
<Rhonda> Granted, mentors isn't as incorporated.
<ScottK> Also DDs rarely upload their new packages to mentors for peer review.
<Rhonda> Because any place is as good as :)
<Rhonda> ScottK: No, we use experimental for that. ;)
<solarion> anyone have recommendations on how to easily image a bunch (~100) of identical USB keys?
<Rhonda> Get a huge usb hub
<jariq> Does anyone have an idea how to make dh_fixperms work on files in /opt ???
<azeem> jariq: why do you ship files in /opt?
<azop> haha
<azop> Rhonda: nice
<jariq> azeem: I've seen that a lot of commercial software products ship files in /opt
<azeem> that doesn't make it right
<azop> azeem: but Google does it(!*@ :P
<jariq> azeem: lintian also complains about files in /opt so you are most likely right
<azeem> heh
<azeem> jariq: I assumed you knew what you are doing and was trying to troll your usage of /opt
<jariq> but does that mean debhelper and dh_fixperms cannot be used for creation of such package?
<azeem> well, you'll have to fixup /opt yourself I guess
<azeem> proper Debian packages are not allowed to ship stuff in /opt (except maybe for empty directories)
<ScottK> The point of /opt is exactly for commerical stuff.
<sommer> is there a way to determine package name in postinst?
<azeem> ScottK: where commercial == too crappy to be submitted to policy
<ScottK> For stuff you have to ship binary only, keeping vendor based namespace separation in /opt is not an unreasonable thing to do.
<jariq> ScottK: that is exactly what I am trying to achieve
<azeem> I still don't see the point, I think /opt should be left for manually installed stuff (or crappy installers)
<azeem> but anyway
<ScottK> jariq: If you want examples, look in Canonical's parter repository.
<jariq> and I wanted to use debhelper the same way as I am using it for creation of my packages in universe
<jariq> so I'll have to fix permissions manually.. crap :(
<jariq> Is there any other easy way (other than dh_fixperms) for setting permissions? Something similar to *.install files..
<azeem> chmod
<jariq> azeem: i wanted to avoid calling chmod and chown directly but it seems to be the only way
<azeem> maybe you can convince Canonical to patch some "Canonical Partner" mode into debhelper, which supports /opt ;)
<virtuald> why not /vendor or /service while you're at it :p
<jariq> thx for advice :) i will look closer at the terms and benefits of partnership
<ari-tczew> can we sync new package manually if it will fix FTBFS for other packages?
<ScottK> ari-tczew: There's no rush.  Just file the sync bug.
<blueyed> andreserl: re etckeeper package: you have changed the version in the etckeeper spec file to match the ubuntu version. Can't this get automated? is the .spec file required after all - except to have the complete source in the source package?
<micahg> blueyed: miro moving to webkit \o/
<blueyed> micahg: nice. everybody finally follows konqueror ;)
<andreserl> blueyed, huh?
<blueyed> andreserl: /me talking about your merge 0.41ubuntu1 (etckeeper)
<micahg> blueyed: one less thing to port fwd every/every other cycle :)
<RoAkSoAx> blueyed: oh i see. IDK if this can get automated actually. Let me check first
<RoAkSoAx> blueyed: Ok I now remember. I just updated the version since it already had an Ubuntu version. I just updated it to match the current at the time
<blueyed> oh, I see. Do you see a way to change it automatically (for Ubuntu)?
<blueyed> the Makefile handles it already.
<RoAkSoAx> blueyed: IDK actually fi there's a way to do it automatically
<blueyed> "make etckeeper.spec" should do it, though still needs manual invocation.
<blueyed> ok, thx.
<sommer> so I have a source package with multiple packages... is there a way to have one postinst that will adjust paths based on package?
<sommer> if not is there a "lib" or some such file where I can place shared postinst code
<ScottK> sommer: What specifically are you trying to install?
<ScottK> install/accomplish
<sommer> ScottK: creating an openldap-dit-core, openldap-dit-usersandgroups package... they have basically the same postinst and I was looking for a way of not creating openldap-dit-core.postinst, openldap-dit-usersandgroups.postinst, etgc
<ScottK> sommer: The common way to do this is create a common core postinst and then a postinst.in for each binary and generate them at build time.
<ScottK> clamav does this and I'm sure others do to.
<sommer> ScottK: ah, I'll take a look at that.  thanks
<ari-tczew> geser, persia: what about approve me to universe-contributors?
<Riddell> fabrice_sp: ping
<Riddell> fabrice_sp: you say "No need to " on lastfm on MoM, what's that about?
<Riddell> (and how do comments get added anyway?)
<kklimonda> Riddell: you can just click on a comment row and type a comment in, then press enter
<Rhonda> azop: nice what? :)
<fabrice_sp> Riddell, this is an old comments  (from Karmic or Lucid cycle)
<fabrice_sp> I've deleted it
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: fixed the patch for librack-ruby, could you take a look?
<fabrice_sp> bug number ?
<fabrice_sp> (I'm too tired to look after it right now, but will check tomorrow morning)
<fabrice_sp> bye
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: #533799
<zimio> I have problems....
<zimio> making a package
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-27
<funkyHat> I'm looking at the ftbfs list and I decided to grab the lp repo of aria2, but the latest version in the changelog is not the same as the version on the ftbfs page
<funkyHat> ftbfs page has 1.9.3-1 and the lp repo only has 1.8.0-1
<funkyHat> What am I missing?
<ajmitch> maverick has 1.9.3-1
<funkyHat> ajmitch: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/maverick/aria2 was the command I used to branch
<funkyHat> Actually I'm running maverick and at first I tried just lp:ubuntu/aria2, when the version didn't match up I removed the dir and tried again with lp:ubuntu/maverick/aria2
<ajmitch> might be worth filing a bug then, it looks a bit broken
<ajmitch> branch was last updated 4 weeks ago, package was updated 12 days ago
<funkyHat> Is there a specific part I should file against, or just launchpad?
<ajmitch> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/udd
<ajmitch> iirc
<funkyHat> Thanks
<lifeless> udd please
<funkyHat> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/586139
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 586139 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "bzr branches for ubuntu packages are not reliably updated (ex. aria2)" [Undecided,New]
<funkyHat> I'm not sure I've got all the relevant info there, but I'm not 100% sure how all of the bits fit together...
<arand> How does one git clone over http from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git ? e.g. git clone http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/projects/scott/e2fsprogs.git just gives "nonexistent head"
<psusi> arand, I think you need to use the git protocol, not http
<arand> psusi: Hmm, well bummer, (blocking firewall :(  )
<MTecknology> k0p: hi
<MTecknology> k0p: sorry, wrong channel + tab complete
<suji> hi
<bilalakhtar> suji: hello. How can I help you?
<suji> http://paragn.fedorapeople.org/iok-1.3.9-to-1.3.10.patch is this patch is enough for this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/563635
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 563635 in iok (Ubuntu) "iok gets terminated due to buffer overflow when "xkb-Tamil Unicode with Numerals" keymap is selected in drop down." [Undecided,In progress]
<bilalakhtar> suji: Sorry I can't help it. Rather I am feeling hungry because of your nick.
<suji> bilalakhtar: http://paragn.fedorapeople.org/iok-1.3.9-to-1.3.10.patch is this patch is enough for this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/563635
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 563635 in iok (Ubuntu) "iok gets terminated due to buffer overflow when "xkb-Tamil Unicode with Numerals" keymap is selected in drop down." [Undecided,In progress]
<bilalakhtar> suji: If its working fine, then subscribe the ubuntu-sponsors team to this bug
<suji> bilalakhtar: how to subscribe that?
<bilalakhtar> suji: Before doing that, attach the patch to the bug report
<bilalakhtar> suji: Then I will tell you how to do it
<suji> bilalakhtar: ok, what should i name it for that patch?
<bilalakhtar> suji: Name it anything you wish, like "Patch for fixing bug #NNNNN"
<suji> bilalakhtar: am asking the file name iok-1.3.9.patch, right?
<bilalakhtar> suji: No problem at all.
<bilalakhtar> suji: Attached?
<suji> bilalakhtar: now doing
<suji> bilalakhtar: i did that, then
<bilalakhtar> suji: Scroll to the to of the bug report, select "Subscribe someone else" in the right-hand side column
<suji> bilalakhtar: to do this should i signin in launchpad?
<bilalakhtar> suji: And then enter ubuntu-sponsors in the search box and select the first entry in the list.
<bilalakhtar> suji: yea
<suji> bilalakhtar: i did that, then
<bilalakhtar> suji: You subscribed? Now, wait for a sponsor to catch up and get your patch into ubuntu.
<bilalakhtar> suji: If you are impatient, ask a motu over here to do it for ya
<suji> bilalakhtar: ok, i will wait for some time, then i will ask here.
<bilalakhtar> suji: good
<suji> bilalakhtar: should i change the status to confirmed or somewhat/
<bilalakhtar> suji: Let it remain like this. When some sponsor takes up, he/she will set it to Fix Committed
<suji> bilalakhtar: so the status is in progress , is that enough right?
<bilalakhtar> suji: yes.
<suji> bilalakhtar: ok fine, thank you.
<bilalakhtar> suji: no problem.
<dholbach> good morning
<DeeJay1> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey DeeJay1
<suji> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hi suji
<suji> dholbach: still am struggling with to update the iok package
<suji> dholbach: now i file  a bug for new upstream release here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/+bug/586218 then what i do?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 586218 in iok (Ubuntu) "upload of new upstream release" [Wishlist,New]
<dholbach> suji: subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<suji> dholbach: ya i subscribed, then
<dholbach> that's it
<suji> dholbach: then when will it be accepted in upstream?
<dholbach> what do you mean by upstream?
<suji> dholbach: ubuntu repo
<DeeJay1> that's downstream ;)
<dholbach> when we speak of upstream, we mean the software authors of a piece of software
<dholbach> suji: the list of stuff that needs to be reviewed is a bit longer, so it might take a while
<dholbach> suji: but it's in the right place now
<suji> dholbach: ok
<suji> dholbach: thank you
<DeeJay1> eh,, the build queue is one hour long again :/
<DeeJay1> one question regarding packaging, when I do pull-debian-source <package> why do the patches get applied on the source tree? I would have thought that they are applied in the build process
<RAOF> Unless pull-debian-source is doing something strange, this will depend on the source package.
<RAOF> It sounds like you've hit a 3.0 (quilt) package.
<DeeJay1> ahh, another "it depends" :/
<jetienne> q. is there something like dh_installinit but for the .desktop ?
<RAOF> Why?  What do you need to do with it, other than dump it in /usr/share/applications?
<jetienne> RAOF: i guess you mean no
<RAOF> Well, there _is_ a dh_desktop, but it doesn't do anything useful anymore.
<jetienne> RAOF: yep and the man page doesnt give the new recommended way :(
<RAOF> The application itself doesn't put the desktop file in the right place?
<RAOF> Or, rather, the buildsystem doesn't already do that?  Sucky.
<RAOF> You can always just get dh_install to do it for you, or manually call install in debian/rules
<jetienne> hmm ok
<RAOF> You don't need to do anything more complex than ensuring the file ends up in /usr/share/applications
<jetienne> RAOF: what is a menufile ? is that something close to .desktop files ?
<Rhonda> It's a fair bit different.
<Rhonda> It predates the .desktop files and is still used quite intensively, at least within Debian.
<Rhonda> The format is a lot different though: Take a look at files in /usr/share/menu/ for an idea.
<jetienne> Rhonda: ok thanks
<bilalakhtar> Hi MOTUs what is the actual process to merge a package? I have merges the package on my sys, lintian-clean, but what after this?
<bilalakhtar> ^^ is for maverick, not lucid sru
<bilalakhtar> should I file a bug on the package? What should be the bug tagged? needs-packaging? or do I need to upload to revu?
<bilalakhtar> sorry I am new to merges :(
 * bilalakhtar is building the package in chroot right now
<sebner> bilalakhtar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<bilalakhtar> sebner: thanks.
<bilalakhtar> meanwhile, I have an error in building package in maverick chroot. please see this paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/440291/
<jetienne> q. is there a way to use dh_make such as i use gpl2 AND gpl3 ?
<carstenh> jetienne: dh_make just generates templates, you need to change them anyway, in this case you just need to change more words
<carstenh> jetienne: linking gpl2-only and gpl3 is not permitted, but I guess you are aware of this
<jetienne> carstenh: this is more about my own code being both. technically i use only gpl2 code
<jetienne> lgpl2 even
<jetienne> carstenh: btw lgpl2 and gpl3 is ok, no ?
<carstenh> jetienne: are we talking about lgpl2-only oder lgpl2-or-later?
<jetienne> carstenh: no idea. does this matter ?
<carstenh> yes
<jetienne> carstenh: i mean as it is lgpl it should not matter the source i link to it, no ?
<carstenh> right, linking is ok with lgpl, but not mixing code
<jetienne> carstenh: ok cool
<carstenh> if everything is (l)gplN-or-later you don't need to worry, even when you mix code
<jetienne> q. dpkg-source uses tar such as it doesnt follow symlink. So i have to copy my whole source there, which is quite large. Is there a way i could either change dpkg-source tar options ? or simply to generate my own .tar.gz and have dpkg_source use it
<jetienne> ok so i copy 130mbyte everytime i build a package...
<kjelle> How would I define a debian package control file to PURGE another package on install?
<kjelle> not just replace/conflict, but REMOVE/PURGE
<kjelle> I cannot add 'dpkg -P ..' in my preinst script, so it seems i must do it in the control file
<carstenh> kjelle: you can't
<tarzeau> kjelle: which package do you want to get rid, and why?
<tarzeau> jetienne: 130mb? that's nothing
<tarzeau> jetienne: i've had packages with 2gb
<jetienne> tarzeau: do you have a way to avoid it ?
<tarzeau> jetienne: no
<jetienne> ok
<tarzeau> jetienne: i have fast hard disks :)
<tarzeau> jetienne: or put it on a ramdisk
<kjelle> tarzeau: one i made
<kjelle> tarzeau: i have splitted a package in two, and want the 2nd package to own some files
<kjelle> tarzeau: i just added "replaces" in the 2nd package control file
<tarzeau> kjelle: package url?
<shadeslayer> hi can someone help me prepare a MIR for libopenal-dev
<kjelle> tarzeau: it is a company package
<kjelle> but i seemed to fix it
<tarzeau> great. i still wonder what software it is
<tarzeau> we've got some of those too
<artfwo> Could anyone take a look at the following FTBFS on Maverick? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libffado/2.0.0+svn1813-1/+build/1757466 The package builds well on a local Maverick setup, strange...
<siretart> ajmitch: I see that you've merged libsdl last week. do you have a clue why libsdl1.2-dev is uninstallable?
<siretart> oh, this might be bug #585992
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585992 in libsdl1.2 (Ubuntu) "Rebuild for directfb transition" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585992
<Rhonda> siretart: Don't dare and tell me that the libsdl update actually did break something else again?
<siretart> Rhonda:  I just note that libsdl1.2-dev is currently uninstallable, and am about to sponsor the debdiff for this bug
<siretart> yes, directfb was uploaded 2 days ago
<geser> artfwo: do you have pkgbinarymangler in your build environment? It does the check which makes the build fail ("Found files in /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages (must be in dist-packages for python2.6)")
<artfwo> geser, no. never heard of it. why did the package build on debian then?
<artfwo> don't they have python 2.6 as well?
<geser> artfwo: Debian has still python 2.5 as default and without this check the package would build but be broken
<SpamapS> can somebody explain why its forbidden for a a package to have embedded dependencies in it? I'm specifically inquriing about the Cassandra DB, which ships its own copy of the 'thrift' library, which is a moving target and therefore hard to tie to just one version.
<Rhonda> SpamapS: Because it becomes a hell for the security team if an issue turn us in such an embedded code copy.
<geser> SpamapS: security reason, if there is a security bug in a library then not only the library itself but also all copies need to be fixed (and first found)
<Rhonda> It would require them to look at all the code copies and fix the issues in every one of them, taking up a lot of time for multiple tests with every single of them instead of just once.
<artfwo> geser, I see. thanks for the explanation.
<SpamapS> Right, so in this case, cassandra cannot function with any of the released versions of the library, they have to use a certain snapshot... so they maintain and patch that snapshot upstream..
<SpamapS> In part, they're falling victim to a dying/dead upstream.
<Rhonda> Try to make them join forces and get the library released more often?
<Rhonda> Ah, that would then call for a fork and not really embedding the code.
<Rhonda> And potentially in the long run be the real upstream for the library, too.
<SpamapS> Right, thats kind of what they're already doing (that, and abandoning the library)
<SpamapS> but they'd rather just keep the forked lib in cassandra's tree..
<SpamapS> than ship a package that others might depend on, which they don't want to maintain it for
<SpamapS> I see both sides, and Cassandra is a pretty hot topic.. we really would like to get it into universe for maverick if we can.
<SpamapS> so my real question is.. if the package were uploaded with an embedded thrift, would it be in violation of any specific policy, or just "bad form" ?
<SpamapS> ttx: ^^
<Rhonda> SpamapS: How many packages are using the non-embedded library actually?
<SpamapS> Rhonda: its not in debian or universe yet.
<Rhonda> SpamapS: Extremely bad form, and you should definitely send notifications along to the security team that they are aware of the embedded code copy.
<Rhonda> *blinks*
<Rhonda> If it's not there yet, what's then really embedded?
<Rhonda> Or a code copy?
<ttx> SpamapS: on a call now
<SpamapS> Rhonda: there's an ITP for thrift, by one of the cassandra devs, but he abandoned it recently because the upstream sucks
<SpamapS> ttx: of course you are. :)
<Rhonda> thrift is that library, right?
<SpamapS> Rhonda: yes sorry. :)
<geser> me guesses even a java library, right?
<Rhonda> I'd say note in that ITP that it doesn't make much sense on itself and that the embedded copy in cassandra is actively maintained? Is the ITP for thrift because of something else than cassandra would need it?
<SpamapS> Rhonda: yeah, there are several things that use it.. Hypertable being one of them.
<SpamapS> the trouble is, thrift is similar to google protobufs, its a dev tool for generating language bindings
<ttx> SpamapS: bad form, definitely
<SpamapS> ttx: if its not available in a usable form as a release, would we normally create a compat type package? Like, 20090418 is the last release, but they need 20091014 so do we make a thrift-20091014 package ? Doesn't that just make things more difficult for no great benefit?
<JamieBennett> #ubuntu-devel
<JamieBennett> doh
<JamieBennett> join #ubuntu-devel
<JamieBennett> dam irc client
 * SpamapS speaks in Mr. Scott voice: "computer" .. 'use the mouse sir' "Ahh, how quaint.. computer"
<dholbach> mdeslaur will give a Packaging Training session about "Preparing Security Updates" in #ubuntu-classroom at 18:00 UTC
<\sh> micahg, zend-framework 1.10.5 in maverick + new libzend-framework-zendx-php package
<micahg> \sh: yep, I saw, thank you :)  I'll backport on my way to $WORK :)
<\sh> micahg, sorry for the delay, real life + real work took prio 1
<micahg> \sh: I didn't see the official release email yet, but it seems to be live on the site as of yesterday
<\sh> micahg, well, last version on the server...ready to push ;) /me needs to check the new queue hopefully it's already been cleared for today
<micahg> \sh: oh, it's in NEW because of the new binary?
<\sh> micahg, hopefully only the new binary package
<micahg> \sh: ah, BTW, there's a new doctrine-zf library that I was thinking maybe we should package as well, what do you tihnk?
<\sh> url? :)
<\sh> libzend-framework-zendx-php_1.10.5-0ubuntu1_all.deb (41.6 KiB) NEW	<- there it is
<micahg> \sh: http://github.com/beberlei/zf-doctrine
<jetienne> 18:00 UTC is 15min from now ?
<\sh> micahg, any reason why the author doesn't push it to upstream?
<\sh> jetienne, 18:00 UTC is still 2h15m away ;)
<jetienne> \sh: ok
<micahg> \sh: will be part of 2.0 I think
<\sh> it's 17:46 german time which means 15:46 UTC
<\sh> micahg, then leave it for 2.0 ;)
<micahg> \sh: k
<jetienne> is it possible that dpkg-source uses its own tar... instead of the gnu tar installed on the box ?
<jetienne> TAR_OPTIONS almost saved me :(
<sebp_> hi, I tried to build a package with pbuilder but I get an error about non-existent ./video http://pastebin.com/UCPwddju
<sebp_> I have no idea where it picks that ./video up
<zerointeger> is this where i can get assistance in creating a debian package?
<c_korn> zerointeger: yes
<zerointeger> awesome
<zerointeger> have time to walk me through it?
<riccetn> zerointeger: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<riccetn> Feel free to ask if you have any specefic questions
<zerointeger> perfect, thanks
<A-R-R> Inserting a '!' character in a line while editing in gedit or gvim deletes the characters in the line after that in my lenovo R61 laptop. That key was working fine till yesterday. Is it a hardware problem?
<riccetn> A-R-R: Try asking in #ubuntu
<A-R-R> riccetn, I am so sorry, I didn't realise I wasn't in #ubuntu
<zerointeger> .
<zerointeger> I am trying to create a new debian package. For this to work I require the krb5-config tool which is installed (Linux 2.6.31-17-generic #54-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 10 17:01:44 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux) but I cannot find the binary. It is working fine on the 32bit vmware applicance I have running however
<shadeslayer> hi any packagers around to help me with gluon?
<Talon_> how do you make a .deb package?
<shadeslayer> Talon_: you build it actually :)
<shadeslayer> Talon_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
 * Talon_ sighs
<Talon_> thats more vague than the site i was reading to try to attempt this.. screw it ppl can just compile the source
<shadeslayer> Talon_: not always
<Talon_> there any package tools that can read a .deb and whats in it? so I could possibly use the files inside a similar package for an example?
<riccetn> Talon_: You should realy build your packages from source, I reccomand looking at the hello-debhelper source package if you want an example.
<riccetn> Talon_: You can download it with 'apt-get source hello-debhelper'
<SpamapS> Talon_: its pretty simple, especially if your package uses autoconf to build
<zerointeger> Are there any tricks with the debuild tool? The package I am working with works fine if compiled from source but depbuilder cannot find certain symbols
<zerointeger> Here is an example error I am getting: .libs/auth.o: In function `pam_sm_authenticate':
<zerointeger> /home/jas/projects/debian-package/pam-krb5-2.3.1+ldap/src/auth.c:97: undefined reference to `pam_get_user'
<soren> zerointeger: You probably need to specify a Build-Depends: on libpam0g-dev.
<zerointeger> ah ha
<zerointeger> is that in the debian/control file? under the 'Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}' line?
<riccetn> zerointeger: Yes. no, near the top. In the first block that deals with the source package.
<Talon_> how do you define the $DESTDIR ?
<Talon_> Done. Please edit the files in the debian/ subdirectory now. You should also
<Talon_> check that the sdlcube Makefiles install into $DESTDIR and not in / .
<riccetn> Talon_: if you use debhelper it will sets DESTDIR for you
<Talon_> I just want it to put my darn binary in /usr/games and put my .desktop in /usr/share/applications :/ this is so retarded..
<Talon_> screw it im just puttin the source out there, this is retarded.
<ari-tczew> is http://hall-of-fame.ubuntu.com/ layout broken?
<bear> as the dev responsible for one of the many python packages ubuntu rolls up (I think from debian actually), what would be the procedure for me to become more active in it's maintainence on the ubuntu side?
<SpamapS> bear: :) howdy.. (clint@fewbar.com here.. ;)
<bear> oh hi - your email is what prompted my visit :)
<jpds> bear: You might want to talk to ScottK - he does a lot of Python work I believe.
<bear> I visited the link and realized I had a launchpad account but wasn't active at all
<james_w> bear: are you part of the python applications or modules teams?
<bear> nope
<bear> way back when I was working for OSAF I started to get into the world of motu but then got layed off and wandered away to other evil lands
<bear> figure if I can help spamaps with anything needed for parsedatetime module that would be a good place to start
<SpamapS> bear: hopefully thats just going to be a quick promotion to main.
<bear> k - let me know if they want anything tweaked with the packaging or anything really
<bear> meanwhile I will start reading the links I see in the topic and lurking in channel
 * bear goes to freshen his launchpad profile
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/544910
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 544910 in aiccu (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> can somebody check ? :)
<dupondje> broken in 10.10 also
<dupondje> patch added & tested
<ubuntujenkins> hello I am thinking about the ubuntu manual team program which we would like to include in 10.10
<ubuntujenkins> sorry hit enter too early. But not all the translations would be finished by release day, how hard is it to get stuff in universe after release?
<quentusrex> What is the proper debian package relationship so that when you install packageA you have to install packageA-dbg ?
<quentusrex> would 'requires' work?
<quentusrex> since packageA-dbg requires packageA
<stevecrozz> I have an ubuntu package I'm maintaining "nginx" which is also maintained by ubuntu, my package includes an extra module compiled in
<stevecrozz> but ubuntu's package is now newer than mine... is there a simple way to update my package against the new ubuntu one?
<stevecrozz> maintaining all my changes?
<diwic> quentusrex: Yes, you can put "depends" both ways
<stevecrozz> I guess the question is, how do I effectively track an ubuntu package and quickly add my own changes for my own package?
<ajmitch> one way is to maintain it in a bzr branch & merge in the new ubuntu releases
<stevecrozz> ajmitch: do you have any reading on this?
<ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
<stevecrozz> ajmitch: are all the regular ubuntu packages available to check out from bzr?
<ajmitch> yes, you can get nginz with 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu/nginx'
<ajmitch> or a specific release such as lp:ubuntu/lucid/nginx
<stevecrozz> ajmitch: thanks, i think i'm on track to figure this out now
<ajmitch> great
<cpscotti> cjwatson , slangasek, jdong ... (SRU team): do any of you have some free time to check a very simple SRU? bug 480772 only needs sru approval... (everything else seems alright).. Thanks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 480772 in harpia (Ubuntu Lucid) "OpenCV 2 incompatibilities" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/480772
<slangasek> cpscotti: checking
<cpscotti> slangasek: thanks..
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-28
<micahg> lfaraone: why did you sync tuxguitar?
<slangasek> cpscotti: in the bug log, it mentions that this only breaks things with opencv 2 but that 2 is not the version in the repo - is that correct?
<slangasek> hmm, looks like that comment is out of date
<cpscotti> exactly
<cpscotti> n lucid it is opencv2
<slangasek> ok, accepted
<cpscotti> thanks
<ScottK> ubuntujenkins: Generally it's not done.
<psusi> bawk? robot chicken? ;)
<micahg> lfaraone: are you around?
<lfaraone> micahg: yes.
<micahg> lfaraone: do you want to PM or chat in herE?
<lfaraone> micahg: PM is fine.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ubuntujenkins> thanks ScottK
<DeeJay1> hi, anybody knows how gnome-pkg-tools work?
<\sh> moins
<suji> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hi suji
<suji> dholbach: the bug was fixed, then when it will be available in ubuntu repo
<dholbach> http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok
<dholbach> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/1.3.10-0ubuntu1
<dholbach> See the "Builds" there?
<dholbach> it usually takes a few hours depending on how many other packages were uploaded
<dholbach> think of it as a long queue
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive has more info on the building/publishing process
<soren> dholbach: I'm looking at the recipe stuff right now. I'm curious what the output format is? A native package, perhaps?
<dholbach> james_w: ^?
<dholbach> soren: I just did a test for example-content and it was (as expected) native
<soren> dholbach: Ok, cool. Thanks.
<suji> dholbach: ok
<soren> dholbach, james_w: Is there any way to override the source package name using these recipes?
<lifeless> set it in changelog
<soren> lifeless: That's what it's based off of? Great, then I don't need to do anything :)
<lifeless> modulo bugs :P
<soren> lifeless: Ah, lovely. You're right. \o/
<lifeless> I try
<james_w> soren: it's currently always a native package
<james_w> soren: I have a small spec about making it smarter, but it's not implemented yet
<soren> james_w: Alright. It looks very interesting.
<soren> james_w: I found it a bit odd that I had to set the target distro in two places on Launchpad, thought.
<soren> -t
<james_w> soren: what were the two places?
<soren> james_w: Hmm.. Let me check again.
<soren> james_w: Ah, right, yes, I have to set it for the recipe itself, and again when I request a build.
<mase_home> soren, are you the soren working on the KVM stuff in ubuntu ?
<james_w> soren: the first is informational, would you file a bug saying that it should be made clear, or the two should be made one?
<soren> mase_home: Hm.. sort of.
<soren> mase_home: I don't work on it so much anymore, but I'm the Soren who used to.
<mase_home> soren, ok well just wanted to say that Lucid + KVM is brilliant
<soren> mase_home: :)
<mase_home> if you had anything to do with that, thank you!
<mase_home> i just got rid of the nightmare that was Xen and with KVM stuff is just working
<mase_home> virsh is beautiful
<mase_home> everything is working, i don't have random kernel issues
<mase_home> its just beautiful
<soren> james_w: I'll see if I can squeeze it in when I understand it all a bit better.
<soren> ?!?
<soren> bzr: ERROR: no such option: --append-version
<james_w> soren: locally?
<soren> james_w: No.
<soren> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~soren/+recipe/daily/+build/20
<james_w> soren: well, that's a bug, it's using the wrong bzr-builder version :-0
<effie_jayx> hello, all, I am having issues with pbuilder after updating a chroot env
<effie_jayx> I am getting an error extracting the tar
<effie_jayx> tar: Skipping to next header
<effie_jayx> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
<effie_jayx> should I delete the maverick tar and create again?
<effie_jayx> I aalso noticed that in the ost recent packags I have gathered for merging the source directory has the ubuntu naming schema
<effie_jayx> first time I see this
<happyaron> google code has changed and we need a new debian/watch, but what if I need to use dfsg? I mean dealing with googlecode should have and opts=downloadurlmangle=something, and for dfsg an opts=dversionmangle=something, how to make it work?
<DeeJay1> hi, how do I make dpkg-buildpackage not look for lzma archives?
<DeeJay1> http://pastebin.com/Dh4Qpj6M - here's the output of bzr builddeb :/
<james_w> DeeJay1: what is lzma in that output?
<james_w> oh, I see it
<james_w> that's odd
<james_w> please file a bug, I think it's just a misleading warning message
<james_w> DeeJay1: does this package use gnome-pkg-tools?
<DeeJay1> james_w: yes
<james_w> that is known to be broken for the get-orig-source part
<DeeJay1> oh crap
<DeeJay1> so it's time to write my own scripts for the daily builds, well
<DeeJay1> thanks for the info
<james_w> DeeJay1: I don't see what your paste had to do with Launchpad daily builds
<mase_home> hey guys, is there anyone around that could discuss  git-buildpackage and pristine tar ? with me. i am not sure if its what i need in order to help me with packaging
<DeeJay1> james_w: sorry, I used the wrong phrase, I wanted to do daily builds of some packages it wasn't launchpad related
<DeeJay1> nvm
<lfaraone> dholbach: could you add me to ~ubuntu-sponsors
<dholbach> lfaraone: done
<lfaraone> crimsun: would you have a chance to approve https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lfaraone/ubuntu/maverick/imagemagick/graphviz-rebuild/+merge/25634 ? It's just a rebuild of imagemagick
<geser> nobody sponsored this yet?
<lfaraone> geser: imagemagick? no.
<zaytsev> hi
<zaytsev> anybody could provide me with a pointer to an example package that generates an app (console) and python module package from the same source?
<zaytsev> the Python module is in the subfolder in the upstream tree
<zaytsev> they use autotools build system and distutils. so just make install creates folders in lib/python2.6 dist/site packages
<zaytsev> I have read the Python packaging policies, but this point is yet unclear to me... I don't get it how CDBS will decide which files go to which subpackage.
<mok0> zaytsev: files go in the directories where <package-name>.install file tells them to
<mok0>  After upgrading to Lucid, I can no longer make Thunderbird launch Chrome (instead of firefox). In the karmic version, you can edit the advanced settings, but those no longer work with version 3.0 of Thunderbird. Has anyone solved this problem?
<hyperair> i've never even seen that problem before =\
<mok0> hyperair: It appeard with TB3
<hyperair> mok0: i've been using tb3 all the while =\
<mok0> hyperair: ... and chrome?
<hyperair> mok0: yes, it has always followed gnome's preferences, which meant either minefield or chromium, depending on my mood
<mok0> Hm, I am using kubuntu
<hyperair> well considering it did honour my prefs, it might have been using xdg-open or something
<mok0> hyperair: xdg-open opens chrome here
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> hmm weird
<mok0> When I click a link in a mail nothing happens
<mok0> It used to start FF, but not even that
<mok0> Otherwise, I am very satisfied with TB3
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> i'm very dissatisfied with TB3's memory footprint
<hyperair> it drives my machine (and consequently, me) up the wall
<mok0> hyperair: oh
<hyperair> but functionality wise, no other mail client can match TB3
<mok0> hyperair: I was worried about that... this rig has 6Gb so I tend not to worry about tit
<hyperair> meh
<hyperair> i've only got 2G
<mok0> :-)
<hyperair> and TB insists on using at least 200MB
<mok0> Yikes
<psusi> hyperair: you using local mbox?
<mok0> Ah something that isn't right here: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command
<mok0> gives /usr/bin/chromium %s
<mok0> and it should be chromium-browser
<psusi> hyperair: and are you looking at vm size or rss?  if using local mbox, tbird mmap()s the whole thing, so it's vm size can get quite large if you have very large mail boxes, but that does not translate into used ram
<mok0> yay!!
<hyperair> psusi: rsz. i'm not stupid. if i stared at vsz for every damn thing, i'd be worrying about gnome-terminal's memory usage as well.
<psusi> hehe
<psusi> tbird does still use this retarded and horribly inefficient "MORK" index format I still can't believe they haven't ditched
<hyperair> mork index format?
<hyperair> what's that?
<hyperair> also, i think evolution has the potential to be better than tb, if only it didn't expect the network to be 100% reliable all the time.
<hyperair> that's the only application i have ever used that has ever hung due to bad network conditions before
<hyperair> and pretty consistently too
<psusi> it's a lame format some nut came up with before mozilla was mozilla to index your mail
<psusi> and it's hideously inefficient...
<psusi> I've been trying to use evolution lately and I find that it is horribly slow... when I fire it up and try to read mail in my inbox, it seems to be trying to do 3 other things at once, and it takes a good 10 seconds to load up the first unread message
<psusi> I also can't seem to find a way to get it to cache the last 2 weeks of mail locally like tbird does... it seems it either caches ALL your imap mail locally, or none
<psusi> I also can't seem to get it to show me threads with unread messages like tbird does... you can hide read messages, but I like to see the whole thread for context if any message in the thread is unread
<artfwo_> hello! would anyone like to sponsor a (trivial) merge? bug 586918
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 586918 in libraw1394 (Ubuntu) "Please merge libraw1394 2.0.5-1 from debian unstable (testing)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586918
<ScottK> artfwo_: I think that should be a sync, not a merge.
<ScottK> I commented in the bug.
<artfwo_> ScottK, that has been discussed before, I was advised to do a merge when there was version 2.0.2
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/544910 => could somebody check this ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 544910 in aiccu (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> artfwo_: OK.  That's my opinion.
<artfwo_> But I am also okay with syncing, should I convert the bug to a sync request?
<ScottK> That would be my recommendation.
<shadeslayer> jono: awesome stream ;)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/544910 => could somebody sponsor this ?!
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 544910 in aiccu (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<shadeslayer> hi suppose i want to upload a new source for a package what do i version it as
<ChogyDan> shadeslayer: whats the old version?
<shadeslayer> ChogyDan: oh nvm.. i figured it out
<ChogyDan> mk
<shadeslayer> i renamed it to kdegames-4.4.80a-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<shadeslayer> bhargav: thanks for that ;)
<bhargav> shaseslayer: :) anytime
<shadeslayer> bhargav: checkout the links in the chan topic :)
<arand> I'm trying to "git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/git/e2fsprogs.git" but I get "fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly", is the repo line wrong?
<shadeslayer> arand: no,but you have connection issues
<shadeslayer> or the server is down or something
<james_w> arand: you probably need a /scott/ in there at least don't you?
<arand> shadeslayer: hrm, the gitweb seems at least to be up...
<arand> james_w: neither adding scott no projects seem sto work either..
<james_w> git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/scott/e2fsprogs.git
<arand> Ok.. that worked, what on earth was I doing wrong before...?
<arand> Ah, I had an extra /git/ in there :(
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-29
<lfaraone> Can I ACK syncs that are "edubuntu bugs" as a MOTU?
<ScottK> If they are in the edubuntu package set you probalby shouldn't.  I'm not sure if you can.
<lfaraone> ScottK: they are.
<ScottK> I'd leave them then.
<cody-somerville> ugh
<_Andrew> Anyone know why this build failed.. https://launchpad.net/~andrewfenn/+archive/ogredev/+build/1762659
<_Andrew> I check the log and it says it built successfully
<nigelb> _Andrew: doesn't look at failed to build.  It says failed to upload
<nigelb> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49299510/upload_1762659_log.txt
<nigelb> I don't understand what it means though.  Perhaps poke somone on #launchpad
<_Andrew> Ah yes I see
<_Andrew> Also there's something weird going on with the AMD64 build.. dh_install isn't picking up files that are in my .install file and it's working on the i386 build..
<joaopinto> _Andrew, perhaps you have an invalid value on debian/control Section:  field ?
<joaopinto> "2010-05-29 07:35:43 WARNING 	mygui-tools_3.0.1-ogredev1_all.deb: Unknown section 'tools'"
<_Andrew> yup
<nigelb> anyone face issues with building sid pbuilder in lucid?
<_Andrew> Well. I fixed that but now the amd64 build is failing when it shouldn't/..
<_Andrew> https://launchpad.net/~andrewfenn/+archive/ogredev/+sourcepub/1154687/+listing-archive-extra
<_Andrew> Does amd64 find files in the .install file differently from i386 ?
<geser> _Andrew: those files mentioned in the amd64 build log seem to be part of mygui-doc with is an arch:all package (ie not build on the amd64 buildd)
<_Andrew> ah...
<_Andrew> I didn't know that
<_Andrew> thanks!
<geser> _Andrew: move the icon and the .desktop file to the package with the binary
<geser> it doesn't make much sense to have them in the -doc package
<_Andrew> It's for opening the documentation
<geser> ah
<ScottK> _Andrew: tools isn't a valid section is why that upload failed.
<_Andrew> fixed that
<_Andrew> Just stuck on the amd64 error
<geser> _Andrew: and you might have a look at your -dbg package as it's empty (only the mandatory files) according to the i386 build log
<_Andrew>  thanks
<_Andrew> I didn't notice that
<dupondje> somebody around that could sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aiccu/+bug/544910 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 544910 in aiccu (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lfaraone> dupondje: I'll take a look at it later today if you'd like.
<dupondje> ok thx !
<dupondje> its a small fix
<dupondje> for an anoying issue :) that has been around since 8.04 it seems :s
<crimsun> dupondje: uploaded. Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<crimsun> dupondje: rather, the correct debconf one is uploaded now :-)
<txwikinger> Does someone he has experience troubleshooting and fixing bugs in regard of parallel make during packaging?
<dupondje> thx !
<dupondje> @ crimsun  :)
<dupondje> did forward it upstream also, lets hope they also pick it up :)
<lfaraone> dupondje: feel free to request a SRU if you want the change to be fixed in hardy etc.
<dupondje> its only an issue when upgrading ...
<dupondje> it never gets updated in a stable release, so its not really needed ?
<lfaraone> dupondje: well, you could make the argument that it needs an SRU to Lucid, among others, since we still support upgrades from hardy>lucid, jaunty>karmic, karmic>lucid.
<lfaraone> dupondje: from what I can tell in the bug, as is those upgrades may fail if aiccu is installed, no?
<dupondje> well they get locked indeed, untill you manually kill aiccu ...
<dupondje> so yea maby its and improvement :)
<dupondje> btw, have no idea how to request an SRU neither :)
<ScottK> !sru | dupondje
<ubottu> dupondje: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<dupondje> crimsun: it went upstream :D
<dupondje> why are some packages not synced from unstable btw ?
<geser> dupondje: which ones? new ones (not currently in maverick)?
<arand> dupondje: If they have changes in ubuntu they need merging.
<dupondje> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libr/librapi2.html
<dupondje> this one
<geser> this one needs to be inspected by someone because of the Ubuntu changes and either merged or synced
<arand> !mom | dupondje
<ubottu> dupondje: MoM is the Ubuntu Merge-O-Matic, a website helping the MOTUs keep Ubuntu in sync with Debian. See  https://merges.ubuntu.com/
<arand> !merge | dupondje or rather
<ubottu> dupondje or rather: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librapi2/+bug/317290 => isn't this quite invalid ? why should it depend on it ? :s
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 317290 in librapi2 (Ubuntu) "librapi2-dev must depend on libsynce0-dev" [Undecided,Fix released]
<geser> dupondje: a header from librapi2-dev #included a header from libsynce0-dev and without this dependency the other header file is not installed
<dupondje> did you check all the code now or ? ;)
<geser> I checked the header files from the -dev package as only they are part of the public API
<geser> dupondje: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/librapi2/maverick/annotate/head:/src/rapi.h line 21
<dupondje> seems like you already did the merge :)
<geser> dupondje: you need to check if that's still the case in the version in unstable
<dupondje> #include <synce.h>
<dupondje> yea
<dupondje> the following comment was already in the MoM: 'Merge done - Waiting on libsynce0-dev (>= 0.12)'
<dupondje> what to do with that ?
<geser> check if maverick has already this version of libsynce0-dev
<dupondje> it does
<dupondje> the merge is done, but no bugreport/debdiffs ?
<geser> unfortunately it's impossible to tell who prepared the merge
<geser> could you also forward the Ubuntu delta to Debian so we could sync in future again?
<dupondje> i'll do :) now its just creating a debdiff with the changes from debian right ?
<geser> yes
<geser> or a debdiff to apply on the Debian package to re-apply the Ubuntu changes
<geser> that way they are easier to review that no still needed Ubuntu changes got lost
<dupondje> its only the depends that need to be fixed
<dupondje> other change got into debian
<dupondje> geser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librapi2/+bug/587346 => looks ok ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587346 in librapi2 (Ubuntu) "Please merge librapi2 0.15-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,In progress]
<geser> dupondje: almost fine, you forgot to retain the old ubuntu changelog entry
<dupondje> fixed ! ;)
<geser> dupondje: looks fine now, ready to get added to the sponsoring queue
<dupondje> ubuntu-universe-sponsors right ? :)
<geser> ubuntu-sponsors
<geser> there is now only one sponsoring team for main and universe
<dupondje> added :)
<dupondje> thx for assistance !
<dupondje> mailed to upstream also
#ubuntu-motu 2010-05-30
<lfaraone> bdrung: hey, I tried to use your ack-sru script as follows: "ack-sync 587229", but I got the following error: "ack-sync 587229". Any idea the source?
<lfaraone> bdrung: * ValueError: You tried to access a resource that you don't have the server-side permission to see.
<lfaraone> bdrung: hm. this seems to happen if the user's email address is not provided.
<aalex> DktrKranz, eh! I figured out you're mentoring my first package! That's nice! :)
<ari-tczew> debfx: ping
<debfx> ari-tczew: pong
<ari-tczew> debfx: why did you this change: Add build-dep on libqt4-webkit-dev. in kadu?
<debfx> ari-tczew: QtWebkit has been seperated from libqt4-dev into an own package
<ari-tczew> debfx: could you send changes to debian?
<debfx> ari-tczew: they don't have this seperation yet
<ari-tczew> ok
<dupondje> crimsun: you want to sponsor another thing for me ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librapi2/+bug/587346
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587346 in librapi2 (Ubuntu) "Please merge librapi2 0.15-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress]
<dupondje> using requestsync, that makes a bug right ?
<dupondje> ok :) it does
<dupondje> crimsun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-sipe/+bug/587467 another :P
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587467 in pidgin-sipe (Ubuntu) "Sync pidgin-sipe 1.9.0-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<ari-tczew> dupondje: are you talking alone with themselve?
<dupondje> ?
<ari-tczew> dupondje: my irc: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/Shdvzh8s
<dupondje> else its so silent here :)
<ari-tczew> I don't see answers from crimsun, so I guess that you're talking to himself
<iulian> dupondje: I can do that for you.
<iulian> (sponsoring the merge)
<dupondje> feel free :)
<iulian> OK.
 * iulian looks
<iulian> Hey mok0.
<ari-tczew> I'm glad that Ubuntu development has got a new supporters
<DktrKranz> aalex: :)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: could you check whether package raul is ready to sync?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: yes (together with patchage and flowcanvas)
<dupondje> iulian: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libopensync-plugin-evolution2/+bug/587479 another one :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587479 in libopensync-plugin-evolution2 (Ubuntu) "Sync libopensync-plugin-evolution2 0.39-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: but are you sure about this change: python (>= 2.5) ? not 2.6?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: yes. embedded waf supports python versions from 2.5 onwards
<ari-tczew> ok
<iulian> dupondje: librapi2 uploaded.
<dupondje> iulian: thx!
<iulian> libopensync-plugin-evolution2 ack'd.
<iulian> I'm now looking at pidgin-sipe.
 * iulian hopes that's all for now.
<dupondje> oops :)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/burn/+bug/587491 this is the last :P
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587491 in burn (Ubuntu) "Sync burn 0.4.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<iulian> dupondje: pidgin-sipe ack'd as well.
<dupondje> thx alot :)
<iulian> dupondje: No problem.
<mok0> iulian: hey
<Rhonda> ** Tags added: canonical-losa-lp
<Rhonda> What's that?
<ari-tczew> does someone got an idea for overtaking orphaned packages.ubuntu.com?
<geser> ??? -EPARSEERROR
<jpds> Rhonda: A tag?
<Rhonda> jpds: Yes, but what does it mean?
<Rhonda> geser: If you had the uderstanding issues about ari's message: packages.ubuntu.com still doesn't mention maverick, even though I did commit the required change to the git repository a month ago.
<geser> ah
<Rhonda> geser: From what I was told is that a single person is able to do that and that canonical doesn't seem to care enough to fix that given that that person is busy for well over half a year now already, at least.
<geser> Rhonda: that seems to match what I've heard (http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/21/%23ubuntu-motu.html#t14:11)
<Rhonda> geser: In what respect does it list maverick? Wasn't aware of that?
<Rhonda> I think it maybe only got part of the commit incorporated.
<Rhonda> Found what you mean.
<geser> packages.ubuntu.com has a link to maverick and options in the select fields for maverick, but it's broken when one tries to use them.
<Rhonda> geser: Unfortunately I'm unable to investigate that closer, I proofread my commit again and can only guess that it was applied only in parts.
<Rhonda> No access to the machine, that's still only up to Frank. At least it looks like he pulled in my changes.
<Rhonda> â¦ or parts of it, no clue.
<geser> no problem
<Rhonda> Well, actually I see it as a problem. But none that I can fix and from what I perceived, none that canonical seems to be worried about.
<geser> that's what I meant
<Rhonda> :)
<dupondje> is there some 'tool' to make merges easier ?
<dupondje> like already preparing the changelog ?
<lfaraone> crimsun: do you think bug 544910 should be SRUd?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 544910 in aiccu (Debian) "Upgrade to 10.04 beta1 blocked by aiccu" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544910
<lfaraone> dupondje: not really. use bzr.
<lfaraone> dupondje: but to handle the changelog, no.
<ScottK> dupondje: Use grab-merge from ubuntu-dev-tools.
<ScottK> lfaraone: The bzr UDD stuff is really much more complicated and less mature.
<ScottK> People are certainly welcome to use it, but I don't think it's appropriate to be pushing it as "the" way to do stuff.
<lfaraone> Unrelated, I'm considering dropping http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38436778/burn_0.4.5-1_0.4.5-1ubuntu1.diff.gz with a sync, but I don't really understand the rationale behind the change. The package builds fine without it, as docutils-writer-manpage is provided by python-docutils. Am I missing something?
<Rhonda> There is some changelog merging hook script for git, no clue if that would be possible to port to bzr.
<dupondje> lfaraone: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/burn/+bug/512509
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 512509 in burn (Ubuntu) "ftbfs in Lucid" [Undecided,Fix released]
<lfaraone> dupondje: I saw that, but what's changed?
<dupondje> docutils-writer-manpage is dropped in maverick now, and is a virtual package for python-docutils
<lfaraone> dupondje: rmadison tells me it wasn't in lucid either.
<geser> Rhonda: bzr-builddeb should already have a script (for bzr hooks) to do it
<dupondje> lfaraone: weird, seems like it failed in some stage to build in lucid
<dupondje> anyway a sync should be safe (it builds for sure)
<geser> and ubuntu-dev-tools has also a script for it (merge-changelog)
<Rhonda> geser: dupondje was looking for such a script :)
<dupondje> lfaraone: did also made an upstream bugreport, as it just should be removed, its a virtual package in debian also
<ScottK> lfaraone: If it builds fine without it, then I'd drop it.
<lfaraone> dupondje: okay, looks fine. uploading.
<geser> lfaraone: lucid had docutils-writer-manpage until 2010-02-03 when it got removed from lucid
<lfaraone> geser: ah, that makes sense.
<ScottK> lfaraone: I do think it's better to just file the sync request and not upload them all yourself.
<lfaraone> ScottK: I've been using ack-sync from lp:~ubuntu-dev/+junk/ack-sync.
<Rhonda> Ah.
<lfaraone> ScottK: From what I can tell, the only issue raised with using `syncpackage' and the like was lack of a record. With `ack-sync', you're still closing a bug.
<Rhonda> geser: Now I understand. I changed config.sh.sed.in but the file that needs to get changed on packages.ubuntu.com is config.sh itself. That one though is generated and not in git, so it needs to get done manually.
<lfaraone> ScottK: is there another reason I'm missing?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hardware-monitor/+bug/587524 => can be done also :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 587524 in hardware-monitor (Ubuntu) "Sync hardware-monitor 1.4.2-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<RunePhilosof> How do I get debuild to only build one of the binary packages?
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iw/+changelog => version 0.9.19 was uploaded directly into ubuntu because debian didn't had 0.9.19 yet. Now 0.9.19-1 is in debian, should that be a direct sync or ?
<blue_anna> does anyone here work on the powerpc architecture?
<ScottK> lfaraone: Generally it's safer to let the archive admin script do it.  Although the risk is low, there's always a chance when you touch the package manually something gets mistaken.
<ScottK> At this point in the cycle virtually none of the syncs are urgent.
<ScottK> blue_anna: powerpc is community supported and there are a few of us that work on it.
<blue_anna> ScottK: ok, hi -- thank you .. I use your product
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<geser> RunePhilosof: you can't. And what would be the benefit of it as you have to compile the whole upstream code anyways.
<dupondje> somebody can tell their opinion on the 'iw' package ? sync or no sync ? :)
<geser> dupondje: what did your analysis of it shown?
<dupondje> as debian missed the 0.9.19 version, they just took source directly into ubuntu, without any changes
<dupondje> now 0.9.19 is in debian, so I think it should be no problem to sync it ...
<crimsun> it's syncable.
<dupondje> tought so :D
<dupondje> got 3 syncs in the queue now :P
<ScottL> !proposed
<ScottL> there are some significant bug fixes for Ubuntu Studio that I would like to ensure they get in 10.04.1, can someone explain how i would effect this?
<geser> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<ScottL> geser, thanks
<ScottL> persia had mentioned getting these into -proposed and this ties into the link that you gave :)
<ScottL> this will greatly improve the user experience in an lts release
<lfaraone> If a package does not release source tarballs, but only binaries, can I use debian/watch to at least track their new releases?
<lfaraone> ScottK: in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pytrainer/1.7.1-1.1ubuntu1 , I was keeping over an older change from quadispro for the "python-glade2 -> gtkbuilder" transition. Is this still occuring? (new debian version without dep change builds fine)
<RunePhilosof> geser, well. I was kind of hoping to limit the compilation of the upstream code
<geser> RunePhilosof: that could only work if upstream supports it
<dupondje> bleh, I can't get debuild to make use of my key as default, always need to add -k :(
<geser> have you tried DEBSIGN_KEYID=0x... in ~/.devscripts?
<dupondje> doesn't seem to work
<dupondje> anyway :)
<dupondje> grab-merge seems to create a patch into debian/patches for the merge changes
<dupondje> is that a better way of doing ?
<micahg> dupondje: is your address in the changelog in your key and keyring?
<dupondje> email is changed :)
<geser> I've configured debuild to not sign at all by default (-us -uc) and only sign (with debsign) what I really want to upload
<micahg> geser: it's the exact same thing, right?
<geser> the same like?
<dupondje> anyway :) patch better or direct changes better ? grab-merge seems to make a patch automaticly :)
<geser> I did look at grab-merge for some time, but it should depend on what the package already uses
<geser> no patch system -> direct changes, a patch system -> use the patch system
<dupondje> there are already some patches in it yea :) but previous merges were directly
<micahg> geser: no practical difference between signing at creation or later?
<geser> no
<geser> no differences
<dupondje> the patch contains comment like '+ This patch has been created by dpkg-source during the package build.', needed to include ?
<geser> is this a v3 source package perhaps?
<dupondje> dpkg-source: info: using source format `3.0 (quilt)'
<dupondje> yea :P
<geser> then the changes got applied directly but converted into a quilt patch by debuild/dpkg-source
<dupondje> hmz :s
<dupondje> so it needs to be filled in or ?
<ScottK> lfaraone: I'm not sure.  I don't keep close track on gtk/gnome stuff.
<dupondje> I fill it in, do debuild, and it gets overwritten :( wtf :s
<RunePhilosof> 7j #wesnoth
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-23
<dholbach> good morning
<X3lectric> nothing good about it
<X3lectric> aside form the fact that maybe in another 24 hours my brain will shut down and Ill pass out from sleep deprivation
<Rhonda> All congratulate Laney on becoming a Debian Developer.  ;)
 * Rhonda . o O ( http://db.debian.org/search.cgi?dosearch=1&uid=laney )
<Laney> Rhonda: I did?!?!?!
<Rhonda> Haven't you received the mail yet? :)
<Laney> dunno, haven't got that far
<Rhonda> haha
<Laney> only as far as irssi :-)
<Laney> ah, yes
<Laney> woo!
 * Laney makes an adult decision to do no real work for the time being 
<Rhonda> Rather make an adult decision to NOT read any archive of debian-private â¦ and resign instantly again. :P
<Laney> hah
<Rhonda> Just be aware that Debian doesn't has a CoC - and (gladly a few, but still rather vocal) see it as their right to â¦ "behave" they way they do.
<Rhonda> Don't take it personal is the best hint I can give.
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> now you've made me more curious
<Rhonda> heh
<Rhonda> Are you at debconf this year?
<Laney> sadly couldn't afford any more time off work
<Rhonda> :(
<Laney> I spent some time with AbsintheSyringe at UDS though, and it sounds like it's going to be awesome
<Rhonda> And I wasn't able to take time off for UDS, even though the trip would had been pretty short from me to there. :/
<Laney> white water rafting :-O
<Rhonda> It _definitely_ will be awesome.
<Rhonda> â¦ or â¦ well, depends. They asked me to run a track.  %-/
<Rhonda> Really???
 * Rhonda has to bonk Absinthe, he didn't tell me!
<Laney> maybe it's not confirmed or unofficial or ...
<DktrKranz> Laney: now it's time to make another pic with sebner, with your new email alias :)
<DktrKranz> oh, congrats btw! :)
<Laney> trying to figure out how to log in :-P
<DktrKranz> crack it!
<Laney> thanks!
<Rhonda> Laney: It's all in the mail. Read it! :)
<Laney> Rhonda: made it in :-)
<Laney> propogation delay
<cjwatson> Laney: so does that mean we get a load of haskell uploads shortly? ;-)
<cjwatson> (congratulations!)
<Laney> cjwatson: building some right now!
<cjwatson> whee
<Laney> ...using ubuntu's transition tracker
<Laney> go figure
 * cjwatson wonders idly why https://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=laney%40ubuntu.com still says "Account Created: No"
<Laney> intriguing
<Rhonda> Laney: http://justimho.blogspot.com/2011/04/directory-dependent-shell-configuration.html
<Rhonda> cjwatson: Because that's updated manually. Guess we can prod zobel about that one. :)
<Rhonda> Laney: Maybe that's what you are looking for - maybe it will give you hints for what you might want to do.
<Laney> Rhonda: ah, yes, that's a good find. I didn't think about doing it that way
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> ~/dev/ubuntu â DEBEMAIL=laney@ubuntu.com, ~/dev/debian â .d.o
 * Rhonda nods
<Rhonda> And for those shared stuff, maybe symlinking directories will work too
<persia> `cd src; ln -s . debian; ls -s . ubuntu` :)
<dholbach> tumbleweed, I just made a couple of changes to the bitesize script - I hope it makes a bit more sense now and we can announce it properly :)
<nigelb> Laney: Congrats! Party time :D
<Laney> I am partying with a nice cup o'assam
<nigelb> :)
<dholbach> if anybody can review my merge proposal on http://pad.lv/mps/ubuntu-dev-tools I'd appreciate it :)
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I was just looking at it
<dholbach> yoohoo
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> I don't think I ran into bug 336866 in a while. It's been marked fix committed for over a year :/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 336866 in lazr.restful "When adding tag or updating description, lp_save() gives "HTTP Error 412: Precondition Failed"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/336866
<dholbach> tumbleweed, it happened to me after I tagged it one and untagged it again
<dholbach> I wanted to make sure it works
<dholbach> try bug 779895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779895 in Ubuntu "Test bug" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779895
<dholbach> (and it took me a while to find out what the issue was :))
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's a pain. Esp as it causes extra round-trips
<tumbleweed> btw, it didn't seem to mind that the bug was already tagged bitesize
<tumbleweed> err, looking at the old version
<tumbleweed> dholbach: error_out doesn't need E:, it adds "Error: "
<dholbach> tumbleweed, fixed
<tumbleweed> hrm, I'm still not hitting that bug, with the workaround removed. But if you did, I guess it's necesseary
<dholbach> tumbleweed, also won't it let you add the same comment twice, but maybe I count that as a feature
<dholbach> tumbleweed, what I did first was    bug.tags += ['bitesize']     which exposed the problem
<tumbleweed> ah. tag_bug(bug) seemed to work for me
<dholbach> yep
<tumbleweed> also, please close bug 785973
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 785973 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[bitsize] code unreachable" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785973
<tumbleweed> it looks like you fixed it
<dholbach> wow
<tumbleweed> indeed :/
<dholbach> tumbleweed, once it lands, what do you think about backporting ubuntu-dev-tools? I think it'd be nice to have it in natty at least :)
<tumbleweed> I have no particular objection to that, however you just got entagled in a u-d-t to devscripts move
<dholbach> ugh ugh ugh, ok
<dholbach> you're right
<Laney> can backport both :-)
<dholbach> I can try to make it a more specific kind of backport then :)
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's probably the best option
<dholbach> tumbleweed, thanks a lot for having a look over it
<tumbleweed> dholbach: do we still need to fetch that bug twice? And you may want to error_out instead of printing in save_entry
<dholbach> tumbleweed, according to the LP bug it's necessary and I found another script in ubuntu-qa-tools to do the same
<dholbach> tumbleweed, I'll quickly fix the error_out thing though
<tumbleweed> ok
<dholbach> fixed the erroring out
<dholbach> it's ubuntu-qa-tools/launchpadlib-scripts/process-bug-with-patch.py if you're interested
<tumbleweed> landed in trunk, thanks
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
<dholbach> fantastico!
<dholbach> tumbleweed, how is life over there? did you end up with too many work items from UDS as well? ;-)
 * tumbleweed hasn't actually got home yet, detoured via London, and so haven't made inroads into work items yet :)
<dholbach> oh wow
<tumbleweed> friend's wedding, I was easily lured to stay for the festivities
<Laney> yay for UK!
<Laney> want to come up to nottingham?
<tumbleweed> that is quite far :)
<Laney> 2 hours on the train from london
<tumbleweed> ah, that's not too bad. today probably would have been best for something like that, though :/
<Laney> ah well
 * tumbleweed will see if a free day or two crops up, but I'm heading home on saturday
<dholbach> oh nice
<tumbleweed> Laney: ah, good catch with mk-sbuild. I should have picked that up when I was looking at it (I commented it out in my configuration file)
<Laney> I did a few uploads with the overridden maintainer, hope it doesn't matter too much :/
<persia> What was wrong with mk-sbuild?
<ScottK> Laney: Congratulations.
<tumbleweed> Looks like it's been there since the beginning (kees?)
<tumbleweed> persia: bug 787051
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787051 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "mk-sbuild is untruthful" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787051
<persia> That used to be true, but isn't now.
<tumbleweed> ah, thanks
<persia> There's lots of cruft building up in mk-sbuild, some because of sbuild changes, and some because sbuild-createchroot is becoming more mature.
<persia> With luck, mk-schroot will be replaced with a wrapper for sbuild-createchroot for oneiric, and be dropped for the following release.
<persia> (this mostly depends on me unwinding the differences, since the two are implemented in different languages, and have rather different program flow)
<tumbleweed> right, you took that on in the udt session
<tumbleweed> I'll quickly fix this in the meantime
<persia> Yep.  Of the three authors of mk-sbuild, I was the attendee, and we've been talking about doing that for a couple cycles anyway.
<persia> If you think it's worth it, go ahead :)  It only affects the generated binaries, which I don't think are suitable for upload anyway (better to run dpkg-buildpackage/debuild within a clean chroot to replicate common behaviour if one must do a binary upload).
<tumbleweed> one needs to do binary uploads for Debian
<persia> I prepare those by running dpkg-buildpackage in a schroot, rather than using sbuild.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.
<tumbleweed> I thought that was the purpose of sbuild? :)
<tumbleweed> persia: oh, I missed your comment on the bug. BTW I fixed the conf.d issue in the last u-d-t upload
<persia> I use sbuild for *testing* package builds as they might run on the buildd, and as the basis for the buildd network I'm trying to construct.
<tumbleweed> (If I'd known it was destined for the chopping board... )
<persia> Oh, you fixed it?  I hadn't run mk-sbuild since release week, and wasn't following commits.
<persia> Thanks!
<tumbleweed> heh, np
<wejaeger> Hey, anyone up for reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/l2tp-ipsec-vpn
<tumbleweed> wejaeger: new packages really should be submitted to Debian when possible. I think it's also a better place to maintain them (of course, keep an eye on them in Ubuntu, too)
<wejaeger> tumbleweed: o.k. I'll try it also in debian
<Laney> wejaeger: Check wiki.debian.org/Teams for an appropriate team to find sponsorship â I recommend that above mentors
<wejaeger> Laney: thanks for that information ...
<micahg> debfx: do you need anything else for that virtualbox bug?  you marked it as incomplete
<debfx> micahg: what's the bug no?
<micahg> bug 746209
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 746209 in virtualbox-ose (Ubuntu) "Need to call modprobe vboxdrv after every restart" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746209
<debfx> micahg: does running the init script manually load the modules?
<micahg> debfx: yes
<debfx> micahg: so are you sure that the init script is run on boot?
<micahg> debfx: no
<micahg> but shouldn't it be run on boot by default?  I didn't modify it AFAIK
<debfx> micahg: yes it should
<debfx> are the symlinks in /etc/rc* still there? e.g. /etc/rc2.d/S20virtualbox-ose
<maco> so, trying to make a metapackage. pretty sure http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=30271 is the *wrong* way to go about it, so...
<maco> germinate or totally-empty-outside-debian/ with a rather full control file and a minimal dh rules file?
<micahg> debfx: I have a vboxdrv and a vboxweb-service in there
<debfx> micahg: those are from the Oracle packages
<tumbleweed> maco: Hi, Either it could be a standalone package, or it could just be an empty binary package from ubuntu-dev-tools, or a non-empty one with things like setup-packaging-environment in it.
<bdrung_> maco: before discussing the meta package: how many package / mb are pulled in with quilt and debhelper?
<persia> maco: What's the purpose of the metapackage?
<bdrung_> persia: https://code.launchpad.net/~maco.m/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix-786370/+merge/61881
<bdrung_> persia: your opinion?
<micahg> debfx: ugh, ok, so maybe that's what broke it, can we make migration to the -ose pacakges easier?
<tumbleweed> persia: something like "packaging-dev", an everything you need for building most packages type thing
<persia> I don't care one way or another.  Based on the UDS session, I think u-d-t is temporary.
<debfx> micahg: I recommend purging those packages, but I'm not sure if they actually cause problems
<tumbleweed> persia: things like requestsync will probably always live in u-d-t (or something like "derivatives-tools")
<bdrung_> persia: u-d-t is temporary?
<persia> I think it would make sense to have a "grab everything you need to work on packages" package.  I'd build such a metapackage with manual dependencies in debian/control (there aren't that many)
<debfx> micahg: so /etc/rc2.d/S20virtualbox-ose doesn't exist?
<micahg> debfx: nope
<tumbleweed> persia: yeah, that's what I'm thinking
<persia> tumbleweed: No, requestsync will end up as part of lptools, once Native-Source-Sync is implemented, and I was told at UDS this was really close.
<debfx> micahg: that's weired, could you try reinstalling virtualbox-ose
<tumbleweed> persia: hrm, I didn't get that impression from the lptools session / poolie (requestsync, not native-source-sync, for that: \o/)
<persia> tumbleweed: I had the impression poolie wanted lptools to be able to do anything one could do with the API.
<persia> Native-source-sync would expose sync requests as an API operation as a first pass.
<persia> So I'm not sure we'd need a separate tool.
<tumbleweed> we'd still need the tool for sponsorees
<persia> There'S a solution to that, but it escapes me now.  Hrmmm....
<micahg> debfx: it's K19virtualbox-ose
<tumbleweed> and people are always going to write lots of little unfinished, ubuntu-specific scripts
<micahg> debfx: s/it's/there's//
<persia> Do you believe that we should tell nascent developers to install "lots of little unfinished ... scripts"?
<debfx> micahg: aha, so something disabled the init script
<tumbleweed> persia: heh, yeah that's the obvious related question. It makes sense that we can share them with each other rather than all implement them independently
<tumbleweed> considering we're a linux distribution, putting them in a package seems pretty sensible
<persia> tumbleweed: Absolutely, but I remain unconvinced that u-d-t is the place for maco's list of things a nascent developer should install.
<debfx> micahg: "update-rc.d virtualbox-ose enable" should fix that
<ikus060> Hi there, I've done alot of work to package iFolder with other people and now I want to bring it to a new step. I want to know whats the best bay the debianize a project. Where do I keep the debian folder ? I'm thinking to keep it in launchpad so I can later on create a PPA. Do someone have some bestpractices for me ?
<tumbleweed> persia: right, I'm with you there. Although at the moment it seems to be a reasonable place
<bdrung_> it look like the preferred solution is to create a metapackage "packaging-dev" that depends on every a packager wants to have installed.
<maco> persia: im actually trying to make a metapackage source package from scratch right now and failing to find documentation via google
<persia> maco: OK.  So, here's what you do.
<maco> well documentation other than "do it backwards and run dpkg-deb --build"
<maco> mostly i just dont know what to do with debian/rules when there's no build system
<maco> also i think we have a meeting in 10 minutes. and quorum as well!
<persia> Make a directory.  Make a directory in that called "debian".  Populate it with template rules, changelog, copyright, compat.  Create a control file with Section: metapackages (double-check my spelling), and appropriate Depends and Recommrnds.  Done.
<bdrung_> maco: rules: 	dh $@ --with germinate
<persia> bdrung_: germinate is overkill for this.
<maco> so just dh $@  ?
<bdrung_> yes
<persia> Yeah.
<maco> funky
<sebner> persia: just added 6 lines. no need to rush but I'll keep you reminding now and then to help you fix your #1 bug :P
<persia> sebner: Your mail is up on one of my screens: I just need to type a reply (although I'll refresh)
<sebner> persia: As I said, no rush! Take your time :)
<Laney> geser: dmb?
<micahg> debfx: it started now :)
<ikus060> Should I use a special tool to update the changelog ?
<micahg> ikus060: dch
<ikus060> Thanks will look at it
<ikus060> I'm creating a source package for daily build, do you have any suggestion to the package version ?
<JackyAlcine> I think that it would like ${MAJOR}.${MINOR}~bzr${REVISION_NUMBER}, ikus060 but I'm a noob at packaging work :/
<ikus060> @JackyAlcine : I'm too
<JackyAlcine> ${MAJOR}.${MINOR}-${REVISION}~${RFCTIME}~${distro}${increment}
<JackyAlcine> like 0.01-4~201105071919~natty1
 * JackyAlcine shrugs in unsureness again.
<tumbleweed> is this package in ubuntu?
<tumbleweed> I'd generally say include the words ppa and/or daily in the version, so it's obvious what it is
<tumbleweed> you probably want + rather than ~ for ${RFCTIME}, or you'll have to downgrade to these packages
 * tumbleweed tends to prefer revision numbers to time, but that also depends on VCS. Revision numbers are safe for launchpad imports.
<JackyAlcine> I pulled that from a version number from a PPA I look for (more like use and own, lol).
<JackyAlcine> https://launchpad.net/~wintermute-devel/+archive/wintermute-experimental
<tumbleweed> it makes sense to use the same versioning scheme as everyone else who packages this package
<tumbleweed> 0.01-4~201105071919 is lower than 0.0.1-4
<JackyAlcine> It's not the other way around? How come?
<tumbleweed> ~ is special http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
 * JackyAlcine learned something new today.
<tumbleweed> that's we do things like ~lucid1 for ppa uploads
<tumbleweed> so that you upgrade from 0.1-1~lucid1 to the 0.1-1 published in Ubuntu in a release after lucid
<paultag> +1
<paultag> I usually use ~ppaN since if I do a multi dist upload, most of the time they are the same, so there's no reason ~maverick needs to be overridden by ~natty
<paultag> if they have a significant delta, bump the major ID anyway :)
<tumbleweed> well ~ppaN almost always makes sense too
<tumbleweed> if you want the same version in maverick and natty, you need to copy, you can't source upload it to both
<paultag> truth
<tumbleweed> and for certain packages, you do want it to be upgraded whenever the user dist-upgrades (i.e. when something excternal, like a library or python version has changed, and the package needed to be rebuilt)
 * JackyAlcine makes a note.
<JackyAlcine> Thanks tumbleweed and paultag.
<JackyAlcine> ikus060, I hope this answered your question as well.
 * paultag waves to JackyAlcine 
<ikus060> @JackyAlcine So ${UPSTREAM_VERSION}+${RFCTIME}~natty1
<ikus060> Am I right ?
<tumbleweed> ikus060: is this package in Ubuntu already?
<ikus060> nope
<tumbleweed> ok, the nit doesn't matter too much. Otherwise you'd probably want to take the versioning used in Ubuntu in account
<ikus060> Which mean ? I'm noobs. I need a bit more explanation .. sorry
<tumbleweed> it means that's fine
<ikus060> So ${UPSTREAM_VERSION}+${RFCTIME}~natty1 is OK
<ikus060> may I replace the ${RCFTIME} by svn${REVISION}
<tumbleweed> assuming the bzr revision in the bzr import matches the svn revision
<tumbleweed> otherwise it may make more sense to say "bzr" instead of "svn"
<tumbleweed> you may also want to include your packaging revision, so you can make packaging changes without waiting for new upstream commits
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: btw, most scripts are moved to devscripts
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yay, I guess I have some e-mails to write
<ikus060> @tumbleweed: Ho, you got me confused. The bzr branche only contains the /debian/ directory. The source is checkout from a svn repository.  I tought ~natty1 was used to keep track of packaging changes.
<tumbleweed> ikus060: I thought you were talking about automated daily builds
<ikus060> yep
<ikus060> I miss something ?
<tumbleweed> those can only build bzr branches i nlaunchpad
<tumbleweed> you can import svn repositories into launchpad (where they will be bzr branches)
<ikus060> I see, So I need to place all the code in one branch : the svn repo + the debian directory ?
<tumbleweed> ikus060: there are different ways of doing this, see the pages on the lp wiki. Also as this isn't an existing package in Ubuntu universe, #ubuntu-packaging may be a better place to find help (although it's currently quite here, so there's no problem)
<dachary> Hi, I'm trying to build packages for natty but can't find devscripts anymore .
<dachary> nevermind, sorry for the noise
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: can you review my commits to u-d-t?
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: any progress on the distro-info naming?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: r1088 is obviously good, although there's still an unecessary \ :)
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: feel free to remove it
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: and r1087?
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: yeah, I think it's good. It will obviously not be buildable in the PPA until we have that devscripts
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: yes, we have to backport devscripts once it is released
<bdrung_> maco: ping me if you have a metapackage prepared
<bdrung_> (packaging-dev)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-24
<highvoltage> good evening!
<JackyAlcine> So I have a package I'm trying to build; and it's on a Bazaar branch.
<paultag> JackyAlcine: so build it :)
<JackyAlcine> My partner told me to use bzr-builddeb to build the package, but it keeps failing at dh_builddeb
<paultag> JackyAlcine: pristine-tar to recover the orig tarball, and it should be happy
<paultag> JackyAlcine: what's the error
<JackyAlcine> something about signing.
<paultag> JackyAlcine: pastebin, plox :)
<paultag> JackyAlcine: you might have to use -k
<JackyAlcine> http://pastebin.com/THzmhF6G
<paultag> if the name on your key is not byte-for-byte identical with the changelog name
<paultag> JackyAlcine: yeah, use that -k flag, or dch touch the changelog
<paultag> JackyAlcine: dch touching would be much cleaner. downgrade it if you have to :)
<paultag> (0.01-1~bzr1~jacky1) or something
<paultag> if it actually matters, which I doubt :)
<paultag> not saying your package does not matter, just saying it's not going to fail out people's boxes without them knowing
<JackyAlcine> Alrighty.
<paultag> JackyAlcine: hope you're well :)
<JackyAlcine> I've been pulling my short hairs on my head trying to avoid BNF-style NLP for weeks now. lol
<paultag> JackyAlcine: I told you, just use something written already
<paultag> :)
<JackyAlcine> I kinda am, I'm using LinkGrammar from the OpenCog proect/Abiword; but I'm trying to build my own just for experience purposes.
<JackyAlcine> I figured that it'd save me time when I'd go for a PhD in Linguistics, if I ever plan on it. lol
<paultag> JackyAlcine: you're still in high school, aye?
<JackyAlcine> Yup, leaving in June (finally) lol
<paultag> JackyAlcine: talk to me when you graduate college, then tell me it's a good idea :)
<JackyAlcine> Lol alrighty then
<JackyAlcine> Yeah, this is getting silly; I really can't build this package.
<JackyAlcine> Even if I've 'dch --team' .
<JackyAlcine> http://pastebin.com/VDBpCMrr if anyone's interested.
<ajmitch> so it built, but wasn't signed
<JackyAlcine> O.o
<ajmitch> do you have a gpg key with that name & email address?
<JackyAlcine> I do, but I changed my name to include the acute mark over the e, that'd mess things up wouldn't it?
<ajmitch> it would
<ajmitch> you could use the suggestion from earlier - using the -k option to pass in the key id, rather than matching on name
<ajmitch> something like 'bzr-buildpackage -- -kKEYID'
 * JackyAlcine shoots hands to the sky!
<JackyAlcine> There is a God (and he's not Stallman!)
<ajmitch> it's working then?
<JackyAlcine> yup :D
<JackyAlcine> Freaking love you guys, lol :D
<ajmitch> great
<JackyAlcine> Going to start from scratch to test it out and write this down so I'd remember.
<JackyAlcine> It's that "-- -kKEYID" thing I need; how come that worked, but a typical "-" didnt?
<ajmitch> because it's being passed as an option through to debuild rather than being an option to bzr-buildpackage itself
 * JackyAlcine makes a note. 
<JackyAlcine> Oh, I think I can see that in the output as well.
<micahg> JackyAlcine: the stuff after -- is passed to debuild
<JackyAlcine> Thanks again ajmitch and paultag
<ajmitch> no problem
<ScottK> debuild or dpkg-buildpackage?
 * ScottK would have guessed the latter.
<ajmitch> debuild, I think
<ajmitch> from what I recall, it's what calls debsign
<ScottK> dpkg-buildpackage does that as well.
<ScottK> What dpkg-buildpackage doesn't do is call lintian if installed.
<JackyAlcine> ScottK, it does in my instance.
<ajmitch> right, it looks like the 'Now signing changes and any dsc files" is from debuild, before it calls debsign. it doesn't really matter in the end which one is getting called
<ScottK>  No.  It doesn't matter.
<ScottK> Just a point of curiosity.
<ajmitch> just another bit of duplication
<dholbach> good morning
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Ahoy!
<nigelb> tumbleweed: want to start setting up challenges and appropriate classroom sessions? :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Better than we start early in the cycle than later
<Rhonda> Hmm, I think I should get an approval for a SRU for the tworld 64 bit arch patch â¦
<nigelb> Ok, I'm looking for suggestions to set up a classroom session and an associated challenges, maybe have a buglist of things that need fixing.  Does anyone have a suggestion or want to join me in setting it up?
<geser> nigelb: what's the target group? and how many experience do they have?
<nigelb> geser: The target group is attracting new developers. So the experience would be low to none.
<geser> hmm
<geser> try looking at some FTBFS
<geser> that early in the development cycle, there are still several easy ones
<nigelb> The plan is to have a classroom session and list a few bugs so that people can tackle of that type and offer a few folks to ask for help
<Laney> this challenge thing has very much changed from what I thought the original idea was
<geser> nigelb: of course someone would have to look at the FTBFS and list the easy one suitable for your class
<nigelb> Laney: wait, what was the original idea? I might have misunderstood.
<nigelb> geser: Yeah, and I'll need to find a few people readily available to help in the channel.
<geser> when is that session?
<Laney> my idea was that developers post up lists of 'challenges' or tasks that they have going on (e.g. a haskell transition) and then people can come along and work with that person to get it done
<nigelb> Laney: That's there too :)
<Laney> one of the main points was the individual connection that develops
<nigelb> geser: Its open, there are no dates committed.  I can't do this alone.  I'm just helping do the logistics bit of it.  I'm trying to find folks to help with the packaging bit.
<nigelb> Laney: What I'm trying to do was to get the classroom session to promote specific tasks.  Like, I'd really like you to talk about the Haskell transition and if you have the time help people through fixing the packages
<Laney> I think it might be too transient
<nigelb> Laney: transient?
<Laney> you have to be at the session otherwise you miss the boat
<Laney> and symetrically the teacher has to figure out how to format their challenge as a lesson
<Laney> I don't know if it meshes
<nigelb> Laney: I understand, I'm trying to figure out how to reformat so we can have a better experience for a new contributor.
<nigelb> I'm open to doing something else.
<Laney> If you want to do 'bitesize' 'ftbfs' 'rcbugs' -style ones then it might be best to write a short introduction on some website (what you'd do in the classroom session) and then have this channel as a place to come for help
<Laney> 'for the next two weeks we will try to get this list of 50 bugs down to 0'
<Technoviking> any idea why my debuild -S -sa is faling http://paste.ubuntu.com/612344/
<nigelb> Laney: okay, I'm game for that. So now, I just need to find folks to help write that initial article and post it on the planet
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> Technoviking: you need to run update-maintainer
<Laney> but... what are you changing in smuxi?
<Technoviking> updated a file to fix a problem using twitter
<Technoviking> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smuxi/+bug/787645
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 787645 in smuxi (Ubuntu) "Error connecting to Twitter in smuxi" [Undecided,New]
<Technoviking> found a fix upstream
<Laney> I happen to be part of the maintainer team for that package in Debian (and so is the upstream maintainer), so if you plan on asking for this fix to be included then it's best to talk to us first :-)
<Technoviking> Laney: what should I do?
<Laney> speak to meebey in #smuxi
<nigelb> Laney: Clearly, its been a while since I worked on packaging.  I can't even find the docs for FTBFS
<nigelb> :(
<Laney> I don't know if there is a single reference for that
<Laney> FTBFS is so incredibly broad
<cjwatson> I don't see how you could possibly write a single reference for it
<cjwatson> FTBFS is to build systems as bugs are to programs
<cjwatson> admittedly, there are patterns, but they vary over time
<nigelb> Oh, right. I generally pop in on IRC and ask for help. Now I remember.
<Laney> cjwatson: I think the idea was to pre-select bugs that should be relatively easy to fix
<Laney> so you could write some documentation to target those
<nigelb> Laney: What are the difficulty levels for the haskell transition for a newcomer?
<Laney> the one that's on now is probably not suitable
<Laney> in general though they are pretty easy
<Laney> no-change rebuilds
<cjwatson> I'd be concerned that you don't learn anything much from no-change rebuilds
<Laney> that is true
<Laney> well, beyond the first few I suppose
<Laney> get dev environment set up, figure out which ones do do, build, check deps are correct, upload
<Laney> it's admittely not very difficult or engaging
<cjwatson> yeah, but you'd learn all of that and more from something that's actually a challenge
 * cjwatson <- not a big fan of giving people purely mechanical tasks - better if they're interesting
<nigelb> I'm just going to plunge in and pick a failure and see if I can fix it.
<nigelb> s/it/something.
<nigelb> ok, so I picked https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71420729/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.telepathy-python_0.15.19-2.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz because I'm fairly familiar with python.
<geser> nigelb: you might want to look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/70903387/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.redis_2%3A2.2.5-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> nigelb: that one should be fixed, it was a bug in cdbs
<nigelb> geser: The one I pasted earlier?
<geser> nigelb: the telepathy-python one
<nigelb> ah :)
<nigelb> ok, looking at redis
<geser> nigelb: if you want you can ask for a give-back of telepathy-python in #ubuntu-devel (it builds in my oneiric pbuilder)
<nigelb> geser: yeah, I was about to ask if  can do that :)
<cjwatson>  can do it
<cjwatson> *I can
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> geser: Is what I'm meant to fix the 'undefined reference to log' ?
<Technoviking> where is a good howto for quilt?
<geser> nigelb: that's the error (I can also give you a hint: the change to "ld --as-needed" caused it; if you need more help let me know)
<nigelb> geser: okay :)
<cjwatson> also 'man log'
<cjwatson> and I think it's only fair to point to http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking, since that went out in a -devel-announce mail IIRC
<micahg> there was also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition
<nigelb> ah, the linking isn't right.
<cjwatson> urgh, one of the examples in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition is explicitly backwards
<nigelb> ok, I believe I need to look into the make file
<iulian> Technoviking: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html
<Technoviking> iulian: thanks
<micahg> cjwatson: sorry, I won't recommend it anymore
<cjwatson> no, it's fine to recommend it, I'll fix it
 * micahg has been meaning to review that page for a while
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition?action=diff&rev2=17&rev1=16
<cjwatson> should be better now
<micahg> cjwatson: I thought that you have to specify a library before you use it
<geser> cjwatson: should your 2nd change in that diff really be a question? (ending in '?')
<micahg> ah, I see, the first example shows adding the missing library, the second the proper ordering
<geser> micahg: there were two ld changes during natty development: one was "ld --add-needed" (missing libraries) and the second one was "ld --as-needed" (proper ordering)
<micahg> geser: right, I thought the example was for the second when it was for the first
<cjwatson> geser: it was a mistake, the next diff fixes it
<cjwatson> micahg: precisely the opposite.  You *must* specify a library *after* any other objects/libraries that use it.
<cjwatson> The examples are confusingly ordered; I didn't have time to fix that
<micahg> cjwatson: so library resolution is right to left?
<cjwatson> I think of it differently such that it is left to right
<cjwatson> imagine the linker walking from left to right along the link lilne
<cjwatson> *line
<cjwatson> at each step, it uses the object/library to resolve any previously unresolved symbols, and gathers a list of symbols that are still unresolved
<cjwatson> if a library doesn't resolve any symbols, it discards it
<cjwatson> (this is option-dependent, but I'm describing behaviour in the strictest case)
<cjwatson> ELF linking is more complicated than that, but I find that model sufficient to work with when fixing this kind of bug
<micahg> oh, that makes sense if it discards when it doesn't do anything, I didn't know that
<cjwatson> that's what --as-needed changes
<cjwatson> "--as-needed causes a DT_NEEDED tag to only be emitted for a library that satisfies an undefined symbol reference from a regular object file or, if the library is not found in the DT_NEEDED lists of other libraries linked up to that point, an undefined symbol reference from another dynamic library."
<micahg> I thought --as-needed meant you have to specify a library before it's used (I guess I didn't read that description well enough)
<micahg> cjwatson: thanks for clarifying that for me
<cjwatson> the previous version of the wiki page did rather reinforce that idea ...
<cjwatson> np
<cjwatson> this is actually traditional Unix linking - I remember dealing with this when writing cross-Unix-platform build systems ten years ago
<cjwatson> (aside from AIX, which is basically entirely backwards)
<cjwatson> so anything that's been cross-platform for ages will get it right, but stuff that's got used to the GNU linker's historical permissiveness often gets it wrong
<cjwatson> much like bashisms, really
<nigelb> geser: I got the hint that I need to fix the make file ordering, but I can't figure out where to start looking in the make file.
<nigelb> I *think* I need to pass -lm for building vm.c, I'
<nigelb> Is that the right direction?
<cjwatson> nigelb: if you look closely, -lm is already there
<cjwatson> nigelb: (-lm is only needed on the "link line", i.e. the one that combines a bunch of .o files into an executable; it's not needed when compiling vm.c into vm.o)
<nigelb> cjwatson: oh.
<cjwatson> nigelb: the discussion above in this channel should help explain, though
 * nigelb looks
<broder> bdrung, tumbleweed: it looks like you guys should do a devscripts backport in the u-d-t daily ppa
<broder> a bunch of tools broke on natty, at least, when you switched to the devscripts.logger module
<nigelb> cjwatson: heh, the discussion above just horribly confused me on right to left and left to right :
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> cjwatson: I'm guessing the linking of -lm and the other libraries should move further to the right and the .o files should go before them?
<jbernard> jkjkjkjkjk~.
<geser> nigelb: yes
<nigelb> Does this look right? http://pastebin.ca/2068596
<nigelb> I couldn't figure out a more easier way to get the libraries to move right.
<geser> nigelb: you got the right idea, you might need to move $(CCLINK) to the end of the call in line 23 and 30 (after those .o and .a files in that command as they might need symbols from the linked libs too)
<geser> but you will notice it when you try to build the package
<nigelb> okay :)
<bdrung_> broder: yes. i will do that once we devscripts is uploaded
<bdrung_> broder: as you probably see, we are moving a bunch of scripts from u-d-t to devscripts
<bdrung_> broder: you can build devscripts from git head for testing
<nigelb> I'm using pbuilder-dist on lucid to build for oneiric, how do I fix that?
<geser> fix what?
<nigelb> oh, it doesn't recognize oneiric.
<nigelb> Warning: Unknown distribution Â«oneiricÂ». Do you want to continue [y/N]? n
 * nigelb checks spelling
<geser> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2011-05-24 19:32 /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/oneiric -> gutsy
<bdrung_> nigelb: dch?
<maco> i think its the same as this bug but s/natty/oneiric/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/+bug/673038
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 673038 in debootstrap (Ubuntu Lucid) "SRU: Add (Ubuntu) natty as a symlink to gutsy." [Undecided,Fix released]
<nigelb> maco: so just do a symblink or get the latest debootstrap?
<maco> nigelb: symlink is a fine workaround
<maco> thats all we'd do to it for the SRU anyway
<nigelb> geser: That package built successfully :)
<nigelb> MP if you would be interested in sponsoring it - https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu/oneiric/redis/fix-ftbfs/+merge/62204
 * nigelb heads to bed
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: poke for "[stefanor] Ask derivatives front desk for distro-info naming help" - this blocks the python-distro-info package creation
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-25
<tumbleweed> nigelb_, bdrung_: sorry been offline all day
<highvoltage> bad tumbleweed
<vorian> no hard feelings micahg <3
<paultag> â¥ vorian
<micahg> vorian: sorry :)
<paultag> I had no idea about that command, so I'm pretty happy with it :)
<vorian> no problemo
<paultag> then again I'm not MOTU
<vorian> I forgot about it actually
<micahg> paultag: yet ;)
<paultag> micahg: :P I need to get rid of my workload before I do that :)
<vorian> seeing as I sat a couple of cycles, I have some cobwebs to shake off
<paultag> micahg: funny thing is I know deb policy to the letter, but I only have time to do basic maintain work up in Debian, so I don't think I'll ever land a DD DM or MOTU
<paultag> so I just try to do reviews :)
<vorian> paultag: revu reviews?
<micahg> paultag: that should be enough for at least DM as long as you have upload history
<paultag> vorian: usually on debian-mentors
<vorian> ah
<paultag> micahg: I don't think I have enough. I've been doing every fluxbox upload since dec 2009, but I don't think it's enough
<paultag> and I usually stick to one DD to do my reviews and uploads, so it's not like I can get people to +1 me either :)
<paultag> Oh well :)
<vorian> you can do it!
<paultag> vorian: I'll feel better after I have another DD to back me
<paultag> vorian: I'll see if I can find one that needs help
<paultag> all the DDs I know are hella idle :(
<vorian> you could always join the darkside (kde)
<paultag> vorian: I just switched two days ago totally
<paultag> vorian: DarkwingDuck convinced me. I told him it's a problem since I'd want to help with kubuntu, but I won't have time
<vorian> you could help with the extragear set
<vorian> as far as I remember it's pretty well ignored
<paultag> vorian: is there a list of packages and their health somewhere?
<paultag> vorian: I have some time, I can do some updating if it needs done
<paultag> (or delta upstreaming)
<vorian> i would have to check that and get back to you, I'm not sure what's still in extragear
<paultag> vorian: np
<paultag> vorian: also; howareya? Long time no chat. Hope things are well out west
<vorian> yeah, things are good!
<paultag> rock on! :)
<vorian> just set up a new machine today, so I'm ready to rock for this cycle
<micahg> vorian: good to have you back!
<vorian> how's the big east?
<vorian> ty
<paultag> vorian: rock'n as usual, leaving cleveland on thursday, I'll miss Ohio :(
<paultag> vorian: back to BOS, so I'm stoked about that
<vorian> I miss ohio too
<vorian> cool cool
<vorian> er, wifes calling. bbl
<nigelb> how do I debug pbuilder-dist not recognizing oneiric?
<nigelb> I already did the symblink in debootstrap
<nigelb> I suspect its something else but I can't figure out what
<RAOF> Does the python script itself recognise oneiric?
<nigelb> okay, this is very strange
<nigelb> one terminal window does recognize, one doesn't :/
<nigelb> well, it won't let me build, but it does work with create
<nigelb> RAOF: The python script?
<RAOF> less $(which pbuilder-dist) :)
<nigelb> RAOF: strange, I don't see any of the ubuntu names in that file.
<RAOF> So it probably doesn't care.
<nigelb> hrm, then what could be going wrong.
<nigelb> This worked last night :/
<nigelb> but I fed the wrong dsc file to it
<nigelb> RAOF: heh, got it working.
<nigelb> For some strange reason, when I moved out of the directory which held the package, it started working.
<nigelb> Is that normal or just strange behavior? :/
<Laney> even now, I still always try to pass '-s' to requestsync
<geser> I try to remember that I've to pass '-s' to requestsync when requesting a sync for a package in main to be sure that it gets marked as needing sponsorship
<Laney> it's supposed to detect that these days
<geser> yes, but it doesn't work reliable for not core-dev DMB members
<Laney> aha
<geser> e.g. for LP I'm a (indirect) member of ~ubuntu-desktop (including their upload rights), socially I'm not a member
<hrw> hi
<geser> hello
<hrw> how can I check am I allowed to upload my packages (PPU rights)?
<Laney> hrw: you can use the edit_acl script from lp:ubuntu-archive-tools thus: ./edit_acl.py query -p hrw -S oneiric
<hrw> thx
<hrw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/612698/ shows failure
<hrw> I authorized it on lp
<persia> hrw, Yeah, but I didn't sort it yet.  It's on my list for tonight.
<hrw> thx
<jtaylor> micahg: concerning the foolscap problem I talked with you about a few days ago, it will get fixed in debian soon, I'll update the branch then
<jtaylor> micahg: turns out it is dependent on the ordering in the data.tar.gz, so its quite random
<micahg> jtaylor: cool, thanks
<micahg> jtaylor: yeah, that would make for a weird problem
<jtaylor> micahg: ipython fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/natty/ipython/ipython-fix-777420/+merge/62311
<micahg> jtaylor: that looks good, thanks, I'm in the middle of something at the moment, but it should show up in the sponsorship queue, hopefully someone else can take care of it
<Laney> I thought that it was agreed that ubuntu-dev-tools wouldn't install syncpackage.
 * persia shares Laney's understanding
 * Laney digs out bzr blame
<Laney> seems it was only removed for one release
<Laney> not sure it's worth taking it out now given that the API methods are tantalisingly close
<persia> Did the job to properly import the changelogs into LP run yet?
<persia> (actually, that question should be asked in the other half of the day, in a different channel)
 * Laney is trying to find the appropriate bug report
<Laney> pointers appreciated
<persia> I don't know if there is a bug report asking for the job to run.
<Laney> I meant for the feature in general
<Laney> looks like #771341, but no real progress report
<persia> https://dev.launchpad.net/Soyuz/NativeSourceSyncing is the launchpad feature description (predating LEPs)
<persia> That bug looks like it was added in response to someone in #launchpad reflexively saying "file a bug".
<persia> No, there's some bugs about changelog attribution that were the main blockers, and needed to be sorted before SyncSource could be applied to the Ubuntu repositories.
<persia> (sync between PPAs already works cleanly with the API)
<persia> Well, seems that landed, as bug #595957 is working around a side effect of the implementation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595957 in Launchpad itself "archive uploader tries to move the changelog to the current working directory" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595957
<persia> Ah, no, despite the implementation making LP librarian have full changelogs, e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+changelog shows that LP still has the attribution bugs.  I can't find them now, but I'll dig them up later.
<Laney> are you referring to https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/55795 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 55795 in Launchpad itself "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Triaged]
<persia> And two others in the cluster.
<persia> So, a branch got merged into LP that properly sticks the changelogs in librarian.  And there was a branch that properly parsed librarian for +changelog (although I can't seem to find it quickly), but a job needed to run between those two to import all the historical changelogs (which job is written, but last I knew (September), unscheduled).
<persia> At that point, it becomes safe to put syncs into the queue, which then resolves some of the other related bugs.
<persia> And only at that point does it make sense to have a big "Sync Me!" button on LP.
<persia> (such a button would appear in the list of "Other versions" at the bottom of the page, so one could select from arbitrary PPAs, Debian, etc.)
<cjwatson> I know they're working on putting syncs through the queue
<cjwatson> I have alpha-tested a UI for the sync button; it's not as you describe, it's perhaps closer to part of merge-o-matic, but whatever
<persia> I suspect there are multiple views of "the right way", and me not pushing mine much for the past year helps make it obsolete.
<cjwatson> I gave fairly extensive feedback, but broadly what I alpha-tested seemed OK
<cjwatson> it's essentially a UI for resolving differences between distributions
<persia> Ah, so more like the merge review kind of thing?
<cjwatson> yeah, a bit more like that
<cjwatson> with the fundamental support there, we can do whatever we like in the API though
<Laney> interesting. I hadn't thought of using it for merges really
<persia> Indeed.  And as the UDD stuff matures, it makes more sense to use more of the LP bzr integration.
<cjwatson> what I tested wasn't a full merge-o-matic replacement, although I think they'd like to head in that direction
<cjwatson> (I suspect that will take a while!)
<cjwatson> anyway, it's important enough to LP that Julian came to Budapest basically just to alpha-test this with a few of us)
<persia> From what I understand from DerivativeDistributions, there is a full bzr representation of each distribution (ideally as related branches), so it oughtn't be that hard.
<persia> Ah, that explains it.  Francis told me it was *very* close, but not any details.
<persia> So we ought be able to have the MoM logic pull lp:debian/foo and lp:ubuntu/foo and push a proposal to lp:ubuntu/foo/MoM-proposed or something, and then use LP's merge review stuff.
<persia> Where the MoM logic jobs run, etc. is more complicated.
<persia> (and never mind get-merge.sh and related)
<cjwatson> I'm not in a rush to decommission MoM
<cjwatson> providing sync API saves me a lot of work; decommissioning MoM will likely create some at least in the short term :)
<persia> As much as I enjoy speculating about how MoM could be replaced, I'd not like to see it gone, as it's one of the nice current examples of working with source packages (as opposed to source branches).
 * Rhonda wonders if I would be able to get the patch for bug #307897 into a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 307897 in tworld (Debian) "tworld/X86-64 bad restore" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/307897
<micahg> Rhonda: probably, sounds bad enough to warrant an SRU
 * micahg post disclaimer that he is not a member of ubuntu-sru
<broder> Rhonda: what releases do you want it sru'd into?
 * broder can't deal with it now, but can at least open the SRU nominations
<Laney> broder: Rhonda is a MOTU too :-)
<broder> oh, good point :)
 * broder goes and looks for more coffee instead
<broder> Laney: congrats on DD-ship, by the way
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> the alioth migration means I can't actually send that post to planet.d.o, sadly
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-26
<micahg> cyphermox: do you plan on merging the universe network-manager packages?
<cyphermox> yes
<micahg> cyphermox: k
<cyphermox> pretty much just finished with network-manager, will tackle the applet now, and then the plugins
<micahg> cyphermox: cool
<Rhonda> Laney: the planet issue can get fixed if you had me the snippet
<Laney> Rhonda: cheers, here it is: http://paste.debian.net/118005/
<Rhonda> no hackergotchi?
<Rhonda> Do you have a photo? I'm willing to prepare the image.
<Rhonda> Is that you in the photo with sebner? http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/udsg.jpg/
<Laney> yep
<Laney> I just haven't bothered to do one yet
<Laney> you're welcome to :-)
<Rhonda> If you have a better photo just tell me. :)
<Rhonda> Just to be sure, you are on the left?
<Rhonda> Been a while since I've met sebner
<Laney> yep
<Laney> the left of the photograph, that is
<geser> Rhonda: read the name tags they have (unless they exchanged them :)
<Rhonda> Oh, right
<Rhonda> Laney: Is this one alright with you? http://deb.at/~rhonda/waste/2011-05-26-9EuKX76Fg5U/laney.png
<Laney> haha, looks good
<Laney> thanks!
<stefanlsd> Laney: thanks for re-adding. didnt get any expiration notices
<Laney> stefanlsd: yeah, launchpad bug :(
<Rhonda> Oh, nhandler is freenode staff. Now I know whom to bother too when RichiH isn't responsive. :P
<huats> morning
<Rhonda> Laney: And there you are. :)
<Rhonda> But what's "one1"? :)
<Laney> ruh roh
<Laney> I should do something about the spam
<Laney> Rhonda: that's a link to the footer, didn't translate too well to planet I see
<Rhonda> ah
<Laney> thanks for adding me
<Laney> the migration is still "fun" I see
<Rhonda> well â¦  cvs is still giving me troubles
<Laney> at least the pkg-cli-* acls got fixed
<micahg> bdrung_: BTW, I tried the eclipse FTBFS patch over the weekend, but was having trouble with ca-certificates-java in the chroot, I'll try again this weekend unless someone beats me to it
<bdrung_> micahg: i am just now trying to build it :)
<bdrung_> i get debian/patches/debian-changes-3.5.2-10ubuntu2
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-27
<hyperair> hmm my universe contributor membership is about to expire. i wonder if i should renew it..
<persia> hyperair: Do you currently have membership another way?  If so, it's not so important.
<hyperair> persia: well i'm a MOTU.
<persia> That's kinda what I was thinking.  Since you have indirect membership, do you care if you also have direct membership?
<hyperair> eh? direct membership to universe-contributors, you mean?
<persia> Yes.
<hyperair> hmm i guess it doesn't matter then
 * hyperair didn't realize motu was a member of universe-contributors
<persia> Unless I made a mistake, MOTU is a member of universe-contributors, which means that as long as you are maintaining MOTU, you're a Universe Contributor regardless of whether you renew.
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> alright, i'll let it expire then
<ricotz> hyperair, hello :)
<hyperair> ricotz: hi :)
<ricotz> hyperair, do you want to upload/sponsor two packages?
<ricotz> hyperair, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/mutter+g-s/
<hyperair> ricotz: maybe later.
 * hyperair is at work
<ricotz> hyperair, ok, no problem
<hyperair> ricotz: (i.e. remind me after 10:00 UTC)
<ricotz> hyperair, ok, i will try in 4 hours
<Laney> bdrung_: looks like packaging-dev is being well received :-)
<Laney> do you imagine including a setup-packaging-environment style script in there?
<chrisccoulson> who looks after the moonlight package?
<persia> chrisccoulson: Check the changelog for the unfortunate who touched it last, but it's mostly handled by the Debian Mono team.
<chrisccoulson> i touched it last ;)
<persia> The you look after it :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> that's not the answer i was hoping for ;)
<persia> Honestly, if you don't want to own it as TIL, coordinate with the Debian Mono team.
<persia> A large number of the members are also Ubuntu Developers: you ought be received well.
<ricotz> bigon, ping
<Laney> chrisccoulson: directhex
<Laney> but he is away for a week or so more
<bigon> ricotz: yes
<ricotz> bigon, hi
<bigon> hi
<ricotz> bigon, i wanted to ask if you could upload mutter + gnome-shell, but hyperair just arrived ;)
<hyperair> hahah
<ricotz> could you upload mutter - gnome-shell
<ricotz> oops
<ricotz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/mutter+g-s/
<ricotz> hyperair, so you are going to? :P , bigon might have more insights here
<hyperair> ricotz: then let bigon do it. =)
<bigon> ricotz: why did you modify libxfixes-dev B_D version?
<ricotz> bigon, because it isnt available in oneiric yet
<bigon> well
<ricotz> bigon, thanks for taking care of :)
<bigon> that will probably tonight or during the weekend :)
<bigon> ricotz: but for libxfixes I would wait til the package is updated
<bigon> in oneiric
<ricotz> bigon, hmm
<ricotz> bigon, it isnt needed
<bigon> let's me ask to fredp
<ricotz> the xserver isnt even patched
<ricotz> bigon, it is only needed for pointer barriers which is only in xserver master
<bigon> oh ok
<ricotz> bigon, the mutter package is just a uupdate and gnome-shell quite a sync
<ricotz> bigon, could you upload them, please?
<bigon> did you tests the packages?
<Laney> are you talking about debian uploads?
<ricotz> bigon, yes
<bigon> Laney: ubuntu universe
<ricotz> Laney, hi, no, about oneiric uploads
<Laney> ah ok
<bigon> I guess we should also ask archive admin to remove blacklist for gnome-shell
<bigon> didrocks: ^
<cjwatson> if a blacklist entry should be removed, somebody should file a bug with the details
<cjwatson> (blacklisted in response to bug 690045)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690045 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Please remove and blacklist gnome-shell" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690045
<bigon> cjwatson: ok I'm doing that
<bigon> blacklist doesn't prevent manual upload in the archive right?
<Laney> correct
<ricotz> bigon, thank you
<bigon> ricotz: I'm thinking about updating the packages in debian before
<cjwatson> bigon: no, but don't work around blacklists with manual uploads (especially not ones that would be identical to Debian)
<cjwatson> even if the upload isn't identical to Debian, sync-blacklist entries inhibit merge-o-matic from processing the package
<bigon> cjwatson: ok so 1st removal of blacklist and then upload
<cjwatson> yes
<ricotz> bigon, ok
<bigon> ricotz: in debian/changelog of gnome-shell you are talking about a merge, this is not strictly correct </pedantic>
<ricotz> bigon, hmm, how would you call it?
<ricotz> in this case probably just strip this line?
<bigon> yep
<bigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/789106
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 789106 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Please remove archive blacklist for gnome-shell" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> ScottK: Did I remember to sign your key?
<artfwo> the versioned copyright format url no longer seems to work: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/dep/web/deps/dep5.mdwn?op=file&rev=REVISION
<artfwo> where can i look for the latest dep-5 and how to link to it?
<artfwo> ah, it's http://www.debian.org/doc/copyright-format/1.0 now
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: concerning SRU bug 774265, maybe it should be postponed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 774265 in meld (Ubuntu Natty) "[natty] meld hangs comparing attached files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/774265
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: bug 786134 also affects meld git HEAD and may be related to the fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 786134 in meld (Ubuntu) "Meld chokes on file comparison" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/786134
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: hmm...ok, I'll get it removed from -proposed. Thanks!
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: thx, sry I didn't see that earlier
<jtaylor> unfortunate that a development release landed in natty ..
<jtaylor> I wonder what the rational was
<mdeslaur> :(
<jtaylor> urg it also affects the stable release 1.4
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: the bug is unrelated to the other fix, but as it affects git HEAD it may take a while until it is fixed as it needs to get released first
<jtaylor> mdeslaur: don't know if it should hold up the other fix
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: so they're unrelated?
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: ok, I'll push it through
<jtaylor> as far as I can tell, but maybe we should wait for an upstream reply
<jtaylor> but bisecting shows it was introduced in a completely other place much much earlier
<jtaylor> I can also fix it with a hack without reintroducing the other hang bug
<mdeslaur> jtaylor: I've already asked the SRU team to cancel my upload, so let's wait until a complete fix is available for both issues before sending it back to -proposed
<jtaylor> k
<nigelb> mdeslaur: hey
<mdeslaur> nigelb: hi
<nigelb> mdeslaur: Did redis build for you? Daviey and I noticed an interesting problem last night.
<nigelb> mdeslaur: It built for me, but not for him.
<mdeslaur> yeah, it did
<nigelb> w00t
<mdeslaur> let's see if the builders like it :)
<nigelb> :)
<achiang> fta: i see you uploaded a new version of chromium to Lucid... but there's no armel build? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/chromium-browser/11.0.696.71~r86024-0ubuntu0.10.04.1
<Daviey> mdeslaur, Interesting... i was getting a rouge $ARCH thrown into some of the build lines, causing it to fail.
<bdrung_> Laney: the responses were either positive or neutral. I think it's better to have setup-packaging-environment in one of the dependencies
<nigelb> Daviey: just checked LP build logs. That doesn't seem to happen on LP.
<nigelb> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/72523812/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.redis_2%3A2.2.5-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<mdeslaur> Daviey: huh...were you trying in schroot or pbuilder?
<Daviey> mdeslaur, i did that in pbuilder.
<Daviey> i'll try again in schroot just for giggles.
 * mdeslaur likes giggling
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> Daviey: I used pbuilder-dist. Now I'm really curious why your build failed :)
<mdeslaur> oh, I also applied the patches before building
<fta> achiang, you should ask micahg
<mdeslaur> nigelb: your merge request didn't have patches applied
<Daviey> mdeslaur, well i imagine your source package was patches unapplied.
 * mdeslaur shakes fist at UDD patch confusion mess
<nigelb> mdeslaur: oh?
<achiang> micahg: oh you are right. sorry, i misread the debdiff
<nigelb> mdeslaur: I thought patches were applied during the build
<achiang> fta: ^^
<mdeslaur> not with source format 3.0...they get applied when the package is unpacked
<nigelb> oh, so I have to do a "quilt push -a" before I request merge?
<mdeslaur> nigelb: well, it depends...there seems to be a lot of differing opinions on that
<mdeslaur> some repos have patches applied, some have patches unapplied, and some have patches applied but the .pc directory deleted
<mdeslaur> (which is completely insane, IMHO)
<nigelb> So this is not Right Way (tm)?
<mdeslaur> nigelb: I think the Right Way(tm) is still up for debate
<mdeslaur> unless it's been solved and nobody's told me
<nigelb> heh, I'm a bit rusty. I did what I used to do in Lucid cycle when source format 3.0 was really new :)
<Daviey> nigelb, as mdeslaur is saying, it's not a well polished machine :)
<mdeslaur> nigelb: essentially, when I check out source, I check to see if patches are applied or not, and then make sure I check it back in in the same state
<Daviey> UDD mimics the output of dpkg-source -x *.dsc.
<fta> achiang, sorry but i'm tired of armel, where i have no h/w to build and test on, and no one is helping either
<Daviey> nigelb,  with 3.0 (quilt) packages the patches get applied with that command.  Other source formats don't do this.
<nigelb> mdeslaur: so check if its applied and follow that pattern seems to be what to now? :)
<nigelb> Daviey: I remember it being horribly confusing to the 'Right Way' back then :)
<achiang> fta: sorry, i wasn't trying to ask you to do armel. i was apologizing for asking you incorrectly
<mdeslaur> nigelb: I think so, yes
<mdeslaur> nigelb: I'm about as far as can be from a reliable source on that matter though :P
<fta> achiang, i still maintain chromium in +1 (oneiric) and in the 4 channels (ppas), but i gave up on the SRUs, hence micahg replaying my branches
<fta> achiang, but dropping armel was not my choice
<nigelb> mdeslaur: heh :)
<achiang> fta: understood, thank you
<fta> achiang, i meant to blog about this, but every time i tried, the conclusion was me retiring from ubuntu
<achiang> fta: not trying to cause you any angst this morning
<fta> achiang, no harm done (and it's 5pm here)
<nigelb> mdeslaur: phew, sucessfully built on i386 and amd64. I'm happy :)
<nigelb> Daviey: that string you were getting doesn't seem to happening on builders. Something's b0rked on your builder :P
<Daviey> bah
<mdeslaur> nigelb: ah, cool :)
<nigelb> Any suggestions on where to start looking for fixing the --as-need change in packages using automake?
<ScottK> Laney: I don't think so.  I don't think I did yours either.
<Laney> ScottK: there, done
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Laney> np
<geser> nigelb: mostly likely Makefile.am (which is used to build the Makefile.in which is used to build the Makefile)
<nigelb> geser: hrm. This is not easy :)
<nigelb> I'm reading autotools manual to get a hang of how it works.
<geser> nigelb: have you a specific FTBFS you are looking at?
<nigelb> geser: yeah, timblserver. it seemed similar to what I'd done the other day with redis
<nigelb> the autotools was a surprise :)
<micahg> achiang: arm will come back for chromium, but it was holding up the i386 and amd64 builds, once we're pretty sure the build will succeed, I'll upload them in a new source.  ATM, no one has had a chance to look at the build failures, if you have time that would be great
<jtaylor> nigelb: with autotools as-needed errors are often just libs in LDFLAGS instead of LDADD
<nigelb> jtaylor: oh.
<achiang> micahg: where are the FTBFS logs?
<geser> nigelb: in the case of timblserver the bug seems to be in libtimbl which is missing a link to a library
<micahg> achiang: well, oneiric has one, but I think that might be toolchain related, no proof though, the last one for arm is here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/11.0.696.57~r82915-0ubuntu0.10.04.1/+build/2463470, you'd probably be better off building the current source, just s/i386 amd64/armel/g in debian/control
<nigelb> geser: libtimbl3-dev packages?
<nigelb> *package
<geser> yes, because of "/usr/lib/libtimbl.so: undefined reference to `GOMP_critical_end'" in the log for timblserver
<nigelb> geser: ah. I've been staring at the wrong failure :)
<geser> in this case I'm not sure myself in which package the linking error is: timbl or timblserver
<pindonga> hi everyone, I'm one of the developers of configglue, which is already packaged on ubuntu (since lucid/maverick). I wanted to ask what's the best way to become the ubuntu maintainer for that package?
<Ganseki> I've got a question about packaging. I just checked git and the debian/changelog doesn't have the distribution set, it's set for Debian standards. How does the build process know for what distro to build for?
<jtaylor> pindonga: I'd say ask the current maintainers if you can help
<jtaylor> Ganseki: locally it builds for whatever you (or your chroot) is running
<achiang> micahg: trying a lucid build now
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-28
<Rowin> Hello
<psusi> is there a channel specifically about the wiki?  I'm trying to figure out how to embed screen shots into wiki entries properly, specifically, how to scale them to an appropriate size.
<GTRsdk> hi
<GTRsdk> Can someone help me put a package onto a PPA?
<psusi> GTRsdk, have you created your ppa on launchpad?
<GTRsdk> psusi, yes
<GTRsdk> psusi, I am wanting to put a Firefox 5 beta 3 .deb for Lucid on it
<psusi> GTRsdk, dput ppa:~yourname/ppaname foo_ver.changes
<CarlFK> http://firecontrol.sourceforge.net - its like 1 .c file - can I get someone to package it?  I am figuring out how to compile it
<GTRsdk> psusi, I only put the changes?
<GTRsdk> psusi, I get some errors...
<CarlFK> build-depends: libraw1394-dev
<ScottK> GTRsdk: For non-Ubuntu packaging questions, #ubuntu-packaging is best and for PPA questions, you should ask in #launchpad.
<psusi> GTRsdk, yes
<CarlFK> ScottK: *non*-Ubuntu ... #ubuntu-packaging  ?
<ScottK> CarlFK: PPA's aren't part of Ubuntu.
<CarlFK> so why #ubuntu-packaging?
<ScottK> Think of it as Ubuntu Style Packaging.
<CarlFK> crazy
 * ScottK didn't make it up.
<lucidfox> Wow, GTK3 is fast!
<lost_> hi
<bdrung_> maco: around?
<hakermania> lucidfox, how can i try it?
<lucidfox> hakermania, by installing any GTK3 application :)
<lucidfox> for example, in oneiric, sudo apt-get install evince (or nautilus, or brasero)
<hakermania> lucidfoc, how can you have oneiric? The first beta release, if correct is on 2 of June
<hakermania> lucidfox, *
<lucidfox> the unstable development version, obviously
<hakermania> lucidfox, yes, forgot that i was in the MOTU's channel :P
<lucidfox> :)
<hakermania> lucidfox, are you in oneiric now?
<lucidfox> yes
<hakermania> lucidfox, did you installed it manually/you're in the testing session/you're in virtualbox
<hakermania> ?
<lucidfox> I upgraded from natty
<hakermania> Ubuntu is not at all helpful on my search for oneiric development unstalble release, anyone with a direct link or with a tip where to find the releases each time a new one is there?
<hakermania> Google***
<hakermania> Omg, I mispelled Ubuntu with Google xD
<tumbleweed> hakermania: you can find daily & alpha CD images on cdimage.ubuntu.com. Or just debootstrap an install, use the netinst CD, or upgrade from natty
<hakermania> tumbleweed, thx a lot
<ScottK> hakermania: Running the development release, particularly this early, can be a bit rocky.  I would suggest that if you are uncertain how to upgrade to it, that's a good sign you might not be ready to run it (unless you're prepared for a full reinstall should things go badly).
<stlsaint> +1
<hakermania> ScottK: I just want to see if my apps run there stably, nothing more or less. Additionally I will try to run oneiric through virtualbox, so don't worry
<stlsaint> hakermania: i suggest using vbox or testdrive
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I"ve seen people get in over their heads before.
<hakermania> I'd like to learn how to use debootstrap, but in the ubuntu's wiki about this issue says nothing about oneiric, it doesn't have a single link about oneiric in debootsrap's deb packages... :/ (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot)
<ScottK> It hasn't changed since Gutsy.  Just substitute whatever release name is there with oneiric.
<hakermania> ScottK, i get 404 this way
<tumbleweed> otoh, it would be nice to see more people running the dev release for everyday work (maybe a bit later in the cycle, *I* haven't upgraded yet either) lots of people seem to avoid it until near the end[1~
<tumbleweed> ScottK: I spectacularly missed my first release team meeting :/ (remembered about an hour before then got sidetracked) not that I had anything to say...
<hakermania> ScottK, and here http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ is says nothing about oneiric :'(
<tumbleweed> hakermania: the pool is unified, all the debs for every supported release (and some may be shared between releases) are in the same dir
<tumbleweed> hakermania: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap can show you what applies to what (or use rmadison) (or just apt-get it)
<ScottK> tumbleweed: No problem.  I missed most of it too due to a power outage.
<ScottK> tumbleweed: You can read the IRC log on irclogs.ubuntu.com to get an idea of what goes on.
<tumbleweed> ScottK: yeah I've seen a few before (I lurk in the meeting channel)
<ScottK> OK.
<hakermania> So (i don't want to do anything wrong) this is the correct deb https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/debootstrap_1.0.31_all.deb ?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: what exactly are you trying to do?
<hakermania> tumbleweed, install the *correct* debootstrap
<tumbleweed> you don't need to install oneiric's debootstrap to install oneiric
<hakermania> then why there are debootstrap_hardy debootstrap_maverick etc?
<tumbleweed> you mean ~hardy1 ? That just means someone SRUed / backported debootstrap to hardy
<hakermania> tubleweed, Ok, then what do I download at last? apt-get isntall debootsrap outputs that it is already installed.. Is this enough?
<hakermania> tumbleweed, *
<tumbleweed> if you aren't familiar with debian-installer / debootstrap, you might find it a little low level, if you want to play around with the dev release, I'd suggest pbuilder-dist (for a command-line chroot) or using a daily CD for a VM install
<hakermania> Yes, I'll try a VM install, better.
<hakermania> I'm wondering, Oneiric is open for development, OK, what does this mean? Bug-fixing?
<tumbleweed> hakermania: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/packaging-guide/html/introduction-to-ubuntu-development.html
<hakermania> tumbleweed, nice, I read it. How do i know which are the open bugs? I have this link that actually links you to launchpad bugs, but it is always outdated: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/debootstrap_1.0.31_all.deb
<hakermania> Err
<hakermania> http://harvest.ubuntu.com/opportunities/
<tumbleweed> it shouldn't be outdated
<hakermania> tumbleweed: With what criteria is a bug marked as easy or hard?
<tumbleweed> I don't know about easy/hard, but bitesize bugs should be suitable for new contributors with no experience (assuming some help from people here)
<stlsaint> am i correct in stating that alioth will no longer be used but is moved to another location
<tumbleweed> no, alioth is alive and well, but is now two machines
<Laney> fsvo 'well'
<Laney> ;-)
<stlsaint> tumbleweed: so the alioth site is up?
<Laney> alioth.debian.org doesn't work for you?
<tumbleweed> yeah it's still recovering from the upgrade
<Laney> the machines themselves are much, much better
<tumbleweed> well, one of them is the machine that used to host the whole thing (in a Xen VM, though)
<Laney> it's better for it
<hakermania> Pfffff... The oneiric unstable proves to be too unstable.... When I boot it I get the familiar desktop image and then a light blue, reminding me the blue screen of death... I can move the mouse but nothing more....
<stlsaint> so alioth will regain status as primary site? (iirc thats not what the mailing lsit announcement said)
<Laney> what do you mean?
<Laney> #alioth on OFTC might be better for these questions
<hakermania> Laney, not really a question, it's just a report...
<Laney> I was talking to stlsaint
<hakermania> oh
#ubuntu-motu 2011-05-29
<ScottK> Ah.  So now we have an entire team dedicated to shoving Ubuntu Tweak into the archive.
<micahg> ScottK: huh?
<ScottK> http://ubuntumug.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/ubuntu-power-users-first-meeting/
<ScottK> Apparently 'power user' turned out to be a synonym for, well I can't find a CoC compliant way to put what I think it's a synonym for with any specificity.
<micahg> lol
 * ScottK is glad tumbleweed took over reporting MOTU status for the release team.
<micahg> orly, cool
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Welcome.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> He and Laney are on ubuntu-release now.
<blackmoon-105> hi, in a -dev package there are only a .h file, or also binary files? (.a, .la, .so)
 * tumbleweed gets home. Took an extended post-UDS UK detour
<blackmoon-105> no one?
<tumbleweed> http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
<jmarsden> blackmoon-105: Binaries too... but why don't you try looking at one to find out?   dpkg -L glib2.0-dev    for example
<tumbleweed> blackmoon-105: ^
<tumbleweed> blackmoon-105: it's common to have .a files in -dev, and possibly .la, but please try to avoid .la in new packages
<blackmoon-105> jmarsden: i've look in some packages and sometimes i've fount it and sometimes not. this is the reason because i've asked
<blackmoon-105> tumbleweed: thanks for the link
<tumbleweed> blackmoon-105: it's out of date, but still informative
<blackmoon-105> tumbleweed: i'm re-package libopensc and i don't know if i must include the .la, .a, .so files in the -dev package or in the lib package
<tumbleweed> blackmoon-105: see also this thread: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/05/msg01003.html
<blackmoon-105> tumbleweed: ok, thanks
<evaluate> micahg, ping?
<evaluate> micahg, I was curios as to what the status of #702316 was. I noticed you merged 1.4.0 from Debian, but the patch for natty hasn't yet been applied.
<blackmoon-105> hi, i've made an updated opensc (0.12.10) deb package, available on my launchpad repo. there is a way for include it in a ubuntu repostories?
<stlsaint> blackmoon-105: your package must get sponsored
<stlsaint> blackmoon-105: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<tumbleweed> but more to the point, opensc is maintained in debian, we just modify the version we get from them, and we generally try to avoid unecessary diversion from debian
<tumbleweed> have you spoken to the maintainer of the package in debian, to see if he needs / wants help with it?
<stlsaint> blackmoon-105: ah yea you dont want to go messing with another maintainers package especially if its being maintained in debian
<tumbleweed> well, we don't have maintainers in ubuntu, you can touch anything (although we ask the right people when possible)
<stlsaint> tumbleweed: gotcha
<tumbleweed> but we still try not to diverge from debian where possible. We don't have the manpower to maintain unecessary differences
<blackmoon-105> stlsaint: the package is already in debian, but the software version is not updated with the version on opensc website
<tumbleweed> blackmoon-105: and is there a particular reason why we need this new release now?
<blackmoon-105> yes bacaus the latest version 0.12.x is the only version which can do working my smart card reader
<tumbleweed> that sounds like a good reason to do something about it :) I still suggest poking the debian maintainer first, though
<blackmoon-105> this smart card reader is used in italy for read the healt card
<blackmoon-105> *health
<blackmoon-105> tumbleweed: ok i'll try to send an email to the debian maintainer
<broder> blackmoon-105: better would be filing a bug with the debian maintainer
<blackmoon-105> debian have a bug page as here in launchpad?
<blackmoon-105> broder: ^
<broder> blackmoon-105: no, they use their own bugtracker
<broder> https://bugs.debian.org
<broder> but the easiest way to use it is to install reportbug
<blackmoon-105> broder: ok, thank you
<hrw> Laney, persia: can 'revu uploaders' group be dropped finally? it is listed as 'no longer necessary' but each 'ubuntu contributor' becames member of it.
<stlsaint> im having a issue setting up apt-cacher-ng
<jtaylor> what kind of issue?
<stlsaint> jtaylor: i believe i have correctly configured but when i hit the import button on localhost:3142 it says no index file found
<stlsaint> No index files detected. Unable to continue, cannot map files to internal locations.
<jtaylor> to import at least one client must have updated
<stlsaint> so i would need to configure my pbuilder to use apt-cacher-ng then update
<jtaylor> or use your local machine
<stlsaint> ah kk
<jtaylor> -o Acquire::html::proxy=...
<stlsaint> jtaylor: is there something specific i must do to pbuilders to use cache?
<jtaylor> pbuilder has the --http-proxy option
<stlsaint> i mean are they treated like clients and i must add the -hhtp command
<jtaylor> or use the http_proxy env variable
<jtaylor> the later is required for cowbuilder
<stlsaint> kk, thats what i meant, ok sounds good, i will give it a go
<jtaylor> or if you want it permantently for the rc
<stlsaint> is it safe to move the pbuilderrc to /home/username/.pbuilderrc cause im tired of seeing the error that there is no .pbuilderrc everytime i run
<jtaylor> should be no problem
<stlsaint> wow so it seems i have no ~/.pbuilderrc
<stlsaint> really im just upset at not knowing where it is
<geser> pbuilder caches the downloaded debs by default, but I use apt-cacher-ng to have a common cache for my pbuilder and my normal system
<stlsaint> geser: yea i noticed that as i was reading more and more
<jtaylor> its also useful to cache for VM's
<geser> I also had to use a proxy for my pbuilder as I use tmpfs for buildspace and pbuilder uses hard-links to get it's cache into the build environment which doesn't work cross-partition
<stlsaint> will the apt-cacher-ng/_import folder automatically update as new packages go into the archives folder?
<jtaylor> it will delete the packages it adds to the archive from the import folder
<geser> I disabled the pbuilder cache as apt-cacher-ng does the caching already (no need to cache it twice)
<geser> (using apt-cacher-ng as http_proxy in pbuilder)
<stlsaint> jtaylor: question: i just made a new pbuilder for karmic, since it had to get new packages will those be added to apt-cacher-ng/_import folder or will i have to do manually?
<stlsaint> exit
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-21
<micahg> is it better to include unistd.h to fix an FTBFS or to properly resolve something like ::close()
<StevenK> If it's C, do the include.
<micahg> nope, c++
<StevenK> cunistd ?
<micahg> StevenK: I see unistd.h is included in other files, so I'll use it as well
 * micahg is curious that it didn't fail on amd64, but did on every other arch
<micahg> tumbleweed: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/1311 seems to have broken submittodebian on precise
<pwnguin> debfx: i see you have a ppa containing mozilla-sync-server. i gather you might know why it's not functioning on 12.04?
<tumbleweed> micahg: ah. that wa sa branch prepared on the plane and I haven't tested it all that much yet
 * micahg reverted to the precise version in the mean time
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<debfx> pwnguin: it requires sqlalchemy 0.6 but ubuntu 12.04 has 0.7
<geser> good morning
 * micahg thinks he's going to cry, amd64 seems to be the only sane arch in quantal
<ajmitch> micahg: isn't that a good thing? :)
<micahg> ajmitch: not when it means my amd64 test build is worthless for the rest of the archs :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> don't you have an i386 build?
 * micahg just compressed 4GB of build logs
<micahg> I do, but that means I have to build everything twice before uploading
<micahg> I usually only do that when I'm worried i386 will break for some other reason
<ajmitch> not fun for firefox or anything else large
<geser> micahg: including <unistd.h> is the right fix for such FTBFS, see also http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.7/porting_to.html
<micahg> geser: I saw that, but it didn't have an example of something with the scope resolution operator
<geser> it should apply there too, as the error is due the source relying on that other headers included unistd.h in the past
<micahg> yeah, it worked fine, I just wasn't sure what was more correct as I saw a couple different ways to fix in various Debian patches
<micahg> ajmitch: for better or worse the same arch differences seem to be in Debian as well
<AmberJ_> Hello
<bobweaver> Hello AmberJ_
<AmberJ_> Is there a way to automatically create a graph for a to-be-created package?
<AmberJ_> I'll like to create a graph which outlines a package and it's dependencies.
<AmberJ_> This can be 'manually' done using tools like graphviz. But I want something that'll allow me to 'automate' this process.
<AmberJ_> Of course, I can write a script to do this for a particular project. But I thought of asking here first to see if other package maintainers use something similar.
<bobweaver> Not sure AmberJ_  I am very new to packaging my-self but I am sure that there is someone here that will be along shortly hold tight. :)
<AmberJ_> I just need a high level quick graphical representation to represent dependencies for a project.
<AmberJ_> bobweaver, ok I'll hang in here to see if someone replies :)
<bobweaver> AmberJ_,  google tells me this http://collab-maint.alioth.debian.org/debtree/
<bobweaver> but once again I have no clue
<AmberJ_> bobweaver, I guess your link does what apt-rdepends does.
<AmberJ_> For e.g. here's visualization of dependencies on 'apt': apt-rdepends -d -r apt > deps.dot && dot -Tpng deps.dot > deps.png && eog deps.png
<bobweaver> not sure I am going to test out right now
<bobweaver> I think it is funny what apt-cache debtree says about it
<AmberJ_> In any case, I don't think debtree or apt-rdepends will help me as I need to create dependency graphs for "yet-to-be-created" packages.
<bobweaver> oh like a flowchart ?
<bobweaver> I use libredraw for my flowcharts
<bobweaver> but once again I am new
<AmberJ_> I need exactly what 'debtree' does. But debtree creates graphs if package exist in the repo. I need to do this for a package which is NOT in the repo.
<AmberJ_> And, not libredraw... I need an automated script to do this.
<bobweaver> but you have .deb ?
<AmberJ_> nope
<bobweaver> sorry I am sure someone will come along :)
<AmberJ_> Ok, here's what I'm doing. I'm doing packages for a project but I'll like to see if project developers agree with "packaging ontology" that I chose. So, I'll like a graph that represents how different components in the project will be packaged.
<AmberJ_> Project has many components which can work independently. So, I'll create separate packages for them. In fact, we predict that we'll end up creating 20-30 packages for the project. I'll like to create a graph that represents these packages and how they depend on each other..
<geser> AmberJ_: how do intend to figure out the dependencies of your yet-to-get-packaged programm?
<AmberJ_> Right now I can think of only two ways:
<AmberJ_> 1. Using cmake: The project uses cmake. 'cmake' has an option to build dependency graphs using graphviz .... using "cmake --graphviz=file.dot"
<AmberJ_> But the graph that gets created is huge (hundreds of nodes). I tried customizing the graph using cmake-graphviz options but could not get what I want.
<AmberJ_> 2. Another way is to write a script that parses a simple plaintext file (with a predefined format) to create a graphviz dependency graph.
<AmberJ_> The file may look like:
<AmberJ_> package1: package2, package3
<AmberJ_> which means that "package1" depends on "package2" and "package3". My script will parse this file to create a graphviz/dot graph.
<AmberJ_> So, I thought maybe you guys already use something like this...
<Laney> If you can get them into an apt repository, there is apt-cache dotty. Otherwise I don't know (beyond writing a script) I'm afraid.
 * bobweaver is having tons of fun with debtree now .. wonder how long and big of a picture  debtree ubuntu-desktop | dot -Tpng >ubuntu-desktop.png    will do 
<AmberJ_> Laney, yes, my task is to get them into launchpad PPA but since I never contributed to project's codebase, I'll like developers to confirm that packaging 'classification' that I'm choosing is correct.
<AmberJ_> The devs know exactly how components depend on each other.
<AmberJ_> I guess I'll have to write my own script then..
<bregma> AmberJ_, package1-> package2->package3 _is_ a dot script, have you though of doing that?
<AmberJ_> err no, let me check.
<dupondje> If we have a specific delta to support KDE, we still merge this? As KDE is not 'supported' anymore by Ubuntu.
<geser> dupondje: yes, still merge (if the delta is still needed). universe isn't 'supported' either and we keep the delta
<dupondje> geser: ok :)
<dupondje> New upstream version with the fix included exists, lets see how hard it is to get it uploaded in debian ... :)
<dholbach> Laney, broder, tumbleweed: we agreed on fortnightly meetings(every 2nd and 4th Thursday), right?
<Laney> I thought we just agreed on the first one :P
<Laney> but that sounds reasonable
<Laney> also â¦ I *ahem* â¦ won't be able to make the first meeting
<dholbach> that's inexcusable
<Laney> sack me :(
 * dholbach adds first agenda item: decide on Laney's punishment
 * dholbach hugs Laney
<Laney> the research group is having an 'away day' that day
<dholbach> Laney, does http://paste.ubuntu.com/999028/ look good to you? (anything I forgot?)
<dholbach> also did I add some standing agenda items to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> Laney, did we decide to present our first bug fixing initiative at the first meeting already?
<dholbach> if so, I better start putting some work into it
<Laney> that would be nice, but it doesn't have to be at the meeting if it's not ready imho
<Laney> don't forget to link to the agenda from the mail
<dholbach> ah yes, of course
 * dholbach hasn't written meeting announces in a while ;-)
<Laney> "Decide on future meeting times"
<dholbach> hum, I thought we'd go with fortnightly Thursday 16 UTC meetings for now
<Laney> sure, should make certain everyone else understands this too
<Laney> even if we did decide it at UDS, hopefully there will be people who weren't there turning up
<dholbach> right, unfortunately the meeting won't be the best time for people who disagree with the timing of it to bring up an alternative :-P
<dholbach> but yeah, let's add it as an agenda item for the meeting
<Laney> and "find people to blast away most of our crufty wiki pages"
 * Laney would help there
<Laney> ah, andrewsomething got WIs for that
<Laney> (twice..?)
<dholbach> ok, mail sent out
<dholbach> I'll follow up on the original MOTU-Q-Plans thread as well
<Laney> cool!
<dupondje> somebody here that can sponsor something for me in Debian ? :)
<dupondje> http://mentors.debian.net/package/eterm
<dupondje> Whats the easies way to merge a changelog now the MoM doesn't handle this anymore ..
<dupondje> easiest*
<dupondje> or can we just remove the previous ubuntu changelog entries ?
<dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication somebody want to endorse me ? :)
 * dholbach might have sponsored one or the other upload :)
<dupondje> Big chance ;)
<Laney> dupondje: are you adopting it?
<dupondje> I finally took all my inspiration to create a Wiki page ... :)
<geser> dupondje: try dpkg-mergechangelog
<dupondje> k :)
<Laney> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=*&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Jean-Louis+Dupond&sponsoree_search=name
<dholbach> dupondje, done
<dupondje> dholbach: thx
<dupondje> geser: what arguments should I use exactly for dpkg-mergechangelogs, man isnt very clear
<Laney> dupondje: I just noticed that the previous maintainer (muammar@d.o) offered sponsorship
<Laney> you should probably take that up
<dupondje> where did you see that? :)
<Laney> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=620507
<ubottu> Debian bug 620507 in wnpp "O: eterm -- Enlightened Terminal Emulator" [Normal,Open]
<dupondje> ah yea, well don't know if I want to maintain that package :) upstream is also quite dead ...
<dupondje> but the last upstream version has some wanted fixes so
<Laney> is there any worth in keeping it around instead of removing it?
<Laney> he'll probably be wiling to sponsor a QA upload anyhow
<Laney> but if you don't hear back in a week or so, you can ping me
<dupondje> ok!
<dupondje> http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html this is still up-to-date ? :)
<dholbach> dupondje, it's supposed to be - there were some bugs filed though which we want to get fixed
<dholbach> dupondje, anything specific which looks problematic to you?
<dholbach> maybe barry can help answer some questions in that case :)
<dupondje> not really problems. Just trying my first merge with bzr :)
 * barry wakes up
<barry> dupondje: i think that page is still accurate
<dupondje> 1) bzr checkout https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/snort/quantal 2) bzr merge debianlp:sid/snort 3) fix the conflicts 4) add changelog 5) commit ?
<barry> dupondje: i'd use `bzr branch ubuntu:snort` probably (just shorter).  step 5 is optional.  you *could* let the importer do all the magic, rather than pushing a new ubuntu:snort revision.  i'd definitely recommend that if quilt is involved.  other folks have different strategies, but this works for me
<dupondje> lets see :)
<dupondje> Most recent Debian Sid version: MISSING
<dupondje> normal ? :)
<tumbleweed> sounds like you're going to have to merge it by hand
<Laney> in my experience that happens with debian branches even when they are up to date
<Laney> check the changelog
<dupondje> Also bzr diff -r tag:2.9.2.2-1 gives me tons of changes, while only 2 lines were changed in Ubuntu ... :)
<tumbleweed> don't forget those branches are patches applied, so you'll be seeing .pc stuff too
<dupondje> bbl
<dupondje> how can I ignore that? cause with that overhead its no cool overview :)
<Laney> filterdiff
<Laney> or -- debian/ to bzr diff
<dupondje> bzr diff -r tag:2.9.2.2-1 debian/ seems to give correct diff
<dupondje> but now if I commit, all the other changes will be comitted also ?!
<dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication => Still some endorsments wanted ! :)
<micahg> dupondje: I'd suggest e-mailing people asking for endorsement and listing what they've sponsored for you
<dupondje> micahg: i'll spam some people personally on IRC :)
<dupondje> tumbleweed: could you add your endorsment ? :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: already got it in an open tab, waiting for some time
<dupondje> great! :)
<dupondje> no stress
<dupondje> when is there another mass-sync ?
<tumbleweed> they should be ~daily... but it depends on cjwatson's sleep schedule, I think :)
<dupondje> 3 days behind it seems (need audacious synced :))
<Laney> it might still be syncing from testing
<dupondje> could you sync audacious? then I can merge/syncreq audacious-plugins :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: you're application could be longer. if you've done SRUs / security / uploads in debian. you should mention them
<jtaylor> there was a sync today
<jtaylor> from testing
<dupondje> tumbleweed: i'll add those tomorrow :)
<dupondje> jtaylor: quantal doesn't sync from unstable?
<jtaylor> don't know, maybe there was a 10day gap between todays sync and the last one
<tumbleweed> we started by syncing from testing, but the plan is to switch to unstable
<tumbleweed> except that apparently launchpad doesn't make that switch easy
<dupondje> ah ok
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: LP should be simple to fix, right? :)
 * tumbleweed leaves that to ajmitch
<micahg> it's open source, anyone can do it :)
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: nah you just annoy one of the webops to manually clean up the database to get around it
 * dupondje is still messing with bzr merges
<dupondje> bzr: ERROR: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/dupondje/quantal/bzr/snort/.pc/applied-patches'
<dupondje> boo ! :)
<cjwatson> dupondje: I'm running them daily, still from testing until I get confirmation from infinity that the armel compiler issues are sorted out
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: I'm just going to ignore the issues with DSD generation and work around them with a sledgehammer *shrug*
<dupondje> aha ok :)
<tumbleweed> :)
<cjwatson> easy enough to just compare lists of published sources, though I'll have to be a bit careful about performance I guess
<cjwatson> but it's only daily
<cjwatson> it's iterating over several thousand DSDs anyway
<tumbleweed> yeah, that's fairly straightforward
<cjwatson> really must get around to cronning auto-sync after that
<cjwatson> aside from the obvious batch mode stuff I think it just needs something to check whether new packages are alrady in the queue
<cjwatson> *already
<cjwatson> and maybe something to mail out lists of new packages that need inspection for some reason
<dupondje> any news on the MoM btw ?
<cjwatson> yes, got the new machine installed today, just waiting on them syncing over a forgotten directory before I can try it out
<cjwatson> so should be really close
<dupondje> aha great !
<dupondje> missing grab-merge :)
<dupondje> merging changelogs manually are annoying me :)
<jtaylor> dpkg-mergechangelogs
<dupondje> jtaylor: what arguments to use? cause I tried it, but couldn't get a correct output
<jtaylor> good question, I mostly let git handle it for me :)
<dupondje> hÃ©hÃ© :) well was stuck there also
<stgraber> dpkg-mergechangelogs a/debian/changelog b/debian/changelog > c/debian/changelog
<dupondje> Usage: dpkg-mergechangelogs [<option> ...] <old> <new-a> <new-b> [<out>]
<dupondje> your missing some :)
<jtaylor> old is the merge-base new-[ab] is ubuntu/debian
<tumbleweed> bdrung: hrm, we do we still have mergechangelog in u-d-t?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes (merge-changelog)
<stgraber> dupondje: oh right, was thinking of merge-changelog and not dpkg-mergechangelogs ;)
<tumbleweed> bdrung: err I meant to ask why
<bdrung> tumbleweed: dunno. maybe because noone cares about it?
<tumbleweed> dpkg-mergechangelogs looks like it does everything this did
<jtaylor> it is easier to use than dpkg-mergechangelogs
 * tumbleweed has never used dpkg-mergechangelogs, maybe I should try it :)
<jtaylor> its not so nice
<jtaylor> isn't the version parsing code used in merge-changelogs in some library?
<tumbleweed> err yeah python-debian
<dupondje> merge-changelog old-ubuntu debian-new
<dupondje> seems to work fine!
<tumbleweed> oh well, I'll not retire mergechangelog quite yet, then
<dupondje> can't get dpkg-mergechangelogs give me a valid output :(
<tumbleweed> that's either user error, a bug, or a documentation bug :)
<dupondje> who will tell ... :D
<dupondje> tumbleweed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeanLouisDupond/MOTUApplication added some more info :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-22
<bkerensa> micahg: do you by chance know why installing wine would automatically begin the removal of a handful of development packages?
<bkerensa> debhelper quilt etc etc?
<micahg> bkerensa: conflicts from various i386 packages?
<bkerensa> ahh
<bkerensa> makes sense
<micahg> most will probably be bugs
<micahg> err...some
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach, geser.
<ajmitch> hi iulian, dholbach, geser  :)
<dholbach> hey iulian, hey ajmitch
<geser> MoM is back :)
<dupondje> geser: indeed, abusing it already ;)
<ogra_> how evil !
<achiang> stgraber: hey, welcome back from holiday. :) can i get a review of this proposed fix? i'm thinking of implementing it in a private project and would like feedback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/855556
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 855556 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) ""Restart" and "Shut Down" don't work if anyone else is logged in" [High,Confirmed]
<ogra_> achiang, hmm, are you sure that gets cleaned up somehow after install ?
<ogra_> to me it looks like the modification is permanent
<ogra_> (given you say in the description it only affects the live session)
<achiang> ogra_: i admit, i am not 100% sure. but on the other hand, the script i modify says:  # Policy to allow the livecd user to bypass policykit
<achiang> ogra_: so if it is permanent, then we have a way more serious bug in the existing casper script
<ogra_> well, i'm not sure if that file will get copied by ubiquity or not during install
<achiang> ogra_: booting up a clean precise installation now.
 * ogra_ only has non live installs handy here ... else i would have checked :) 
<ogra_> theoretically i think every user with physical access should be able to shutdown/reboot though
<ogra_> since you can just use the power button anyway :)
<achiang> ogra_: hm, what is a "live install" ? this machine i'm checking was installed by: 1) download precise iso 2) use usb-creator-gtk to copy to USB key 3) boot into ubiquity (i didn't launch a guest/live session first)
<ogra_> well, a live install for me is one that uses casper in some way :)
<achiang> ogra_: so, i don't see that file got copied over, but i also don't know if i did a live install via your definition. but i'm still pretty confident that file doesn't get copied into a real install. taht would be insane
<ogra_> you did a live install
<ogra_> achiang, to me it looks good btw
<achiang> ogra_: ok, thanks. i guess i will wait until a sponsor actually picks it up before i check in the equivalent fix into our private branch. :)
<ogra_> achiang, one nitpick though, you shoulldnt close the LP bug from the changelog, after all its only a minro improvement, i think the bug has a bigger scope
<ogra_> *minor
<achiang> ogra_: ah, i agree it's only a minor improvement, but i don't know how to avoid closing the LP bug from the changelog. what should i write instead?
<ogra_> i dont think we have a generalized way for that, i usually use (Launchpad: #123456) instead of (LP: #123456)
<ogra_> or something similar
<ogra_> the parser only parses (LP: #...)
<stgraber> ogra_: (still reading backlog), ubiquity copies /rofs, not /, so that change will only apply to the live environment
<ogra_> stgraber, oh, indeed
<stgraber> achiang: can you restrict the change to only allowing shutdown/reboot? unless I missed something it looks like you're allowing every admin action. Not really a big problem considering none of the admin UIs are visible in the greeter, but still, no real need to allow it either
<achiang> stgraber: hm, but at some point, our project will want to allow the lightdm user to do things like select and authenticate to a wifi AP and other potentially admin like things
<stgraber> achiang: I'm not a big fan of needlessly allowing things in security profiles, but I guess in this case I'm fine with it ;) the ubuntu users is already logged in everywhere and has password-less sudo rights, so there's indeed little benefit in having fine grained security profiles for the rest
<achiang> stgraber: great, thanks! shall i fix up the nitpick that ogra_ pointed out, or is the MP good to go?
<stgraber> achiang, ogra_: I think it's fine keeping the LP: # entry so long as we have a separate casper task on that bug and don't close the other tasks
<achiang> stgraber: ok, i leave it in your hands then. i'm not a motu, so need a sponsor. :)
<ogra_> yeah, add a casper task
 * ogra_ didnt think of actually *adding* more tasks :) 
<stgraber> achiang: ok, will upload in a minute. casper being in main/core package set, you actually need a coredev :)
<achiang> stgraber: ooh, shiny. my first coredev patch. :)
<achiang> stgraber: thank you much
<stgraber> achiang: done
<achiang> stgraber: merci!
<vibhav> Any bug supervisor here?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: everyone with upload rights is automatically added to bugcontrol
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Can you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/644578 and nominate it for oneiric?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 644578 in update-notifier (Debian) "gettext required by package scripts, but not a dependency " [Unknown,New]
<Laney> vibhav: why don't you apply for bug control?
<vibhav> I got A +0
<tumbleweed> vibhav: nominated
<vibhav> thanks!
<vibhav> Laney: Because the example I showed were more inclined towards MOTU
<vibhav> examples*
<vibhav> And not for triaging bugs
<vibhav> Laney: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/msg03712.html and the next thread FYI
<tumbleweed> vibhav: I'd make it clearer that you want to join bugcontrol to help you do MOTU work
<vibhav> sure
<vibhav> I will reapply again
<tumbleweed> vibhav: or, just triage 5 bugs :)
<dupondje> tumbleweed: could you enter your endorsment on my Application please? Then I can schedule myself in the meeting :)
<vibhav> tumbleweed: What do I write in my application?
<ajmitch> micahg: did you get a test build of openclipart completed?
<ajmitch> if not, I'll start one off on my home box & be patient
<jtaylor> vibhav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl#Application
<micahg> ajmitch: no, almost did it last night, but then decided to go to bed, can do tonight
<ajmitch> micahg: no rush
<jtaylor> I wonder if anyone would scream when I drop the ill advised pdl ubuntu delta dating back to bug 29798
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 29798 in pdl (Ubuntu) "enable NaN support" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29798
<ajmitch> jtaylor: why is it ill-advised?
<jtaylor> from my understanding there is no gain
<jtaylor> well its a peice of ubuntu history so I'll keep it, likely on the next perl transition the merge blame will fall back to cjwatson due to the rebuild ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> is it something that's been discussed with the debian maintainer?
<jtaylor> debian maintainer rejected it as bogus
<jtaylor> bug 1000972 looks intersting, the trigger running right after perl is unpacked, I guess that can be ugly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000972 in pdl (Ubuntu) "package pdl 1:2.4.7+dfsg-2ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 127" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000972
<jtaylor> to bad I have no idea of perl and am not going to touch it :P
<ajmitch> ask Laney all about trigger ordering :)
<Laney> :|
 * ajmitch takes the whiskey bottle off Laney 
<ajmitch> I see there was no response on debian-dpkg about that question
<Laney> yes, indeed
<Laney> do you fancy mailing -devel?
 * Laney cannae handle the abuse
<ajmitch> you can explain the situation better than I can though
<LordOfTime> then laney can tell you what to write, and you send it :p
 * LordOfTime is kidding, but still
<Laney> I already wrote it to -dpkg :P
<Laney> bah, I'll do it
<ajmitch> a gracious volunteer
<LordOfTime> lol
 * Laney ph33rs
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-23
<tumbleweed> bregma: did you ever forward the patch in bug 871548 to debian?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871548 in guichan (Ubuntu) "Library does not load in Ubuntu 11.10 due to missing symbols" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871548
<bregma> not sure, I'll have to check....
<tumbleweed> well, either way it needs a merge
<bregma> nope, it looks like I missed forwarding that one
<tumbleweed> :)
<bregma> works fine in sid without the patch, at least last time I checked, it only fails in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> still, means, you have to regularly merge it. If you can persuade the debian maintainer to take the patch, then :)
<bregma> OK, I'll submit the bug up to Debian
<bobweaver> hello there I have a question about merging branches or more so on purposing merge branches. I have made changes here https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide  (im joseph mills)    I have requested a merge for one of the pushes here https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntu-packaging-guide/fixed-bug767276/+merge/106929     My question is Should I be doing this for all the merges that I want aka all the pushes that I h
<bobweaver> ave done ? thanks for your time.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 106929 in Web Team projects "figure out how to import existing chapter wikis into our wiki farm" [Undecided,Fix released]
<TheMuso> Where does discussion about ubuntu-dev-tools usually take place these days?
<TheMuso> Other than bugs?
<geser> TheMuso: usually here, as the most active devs (Laney, tumbleweed) are here too
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<bobweaver> hello and gooed morning to you also
<bobweaver> dholbach,  I see that you left me a message asking to .......
<bobweaver> about merging branches or more so on purposing merge branches. I have made changes here https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide  (im joseph mills)    I have requested a merge for one of the pushes here https://code.launchpad.net/~josephjamesmills/ubuntu-packaging-guide/fixed-bug767276/+merge/106929     My question is Should I be doing this for all the merges that I want aka all the pushes that I have done ? thanks for your time
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 106929 in Web Team projects "figure out how to import existing chapter wikis into our wiki farm" [Undecided,Fix released]
<dholbach> bobweaver, yes please - if you push your code to launchpad, that's fine, but only if you ask for it to be merged (merge proposal) do others really get aware of it
<bobweaver> cool
<bobweaver> should I be pushing code like that ?  bzr branch lp:~foo/bar  alter it then push back up  then delete the one that I just pushed and start all over again ?
<bobweaver> for each change
<dholbach> yes, I do separate new branches for every bug I work on - I feel it gets less confusing
<dholbach> but maybe others in here have different modes of working
<bobweaver> sweet thanks for your time now back to hacking ubuntu tv if I could just get this lens and sccope to work :) cya
<dholbach> all the best with that :)
<bobweaver> one more question Traditional Packaging or the page for the guide is like using dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage -F  and fakerooot ?
<bobweaver> like "packaging from scratch " but with out bzr tools and what not thanks again
<dholbach> broder, allison, tumbleweed, ajmitch, (and anybody else really): could you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative and see if it's clear enough or add some new opportunities or edit it in any other way?
<ogra_> you forgot to mention that all armhf bugs are the ones with the highest prio for everyone !
<Laney> also you missed the "fix mono on arm" challenge
<ogra_> ++
<ajmitch> Laney: a trivial 5-minute job for a new contributor? :)
<ogra_> yeah, its low hanging fruit
<Laney> bzr branch; hack; commit; propose; win!
<ajmitch> Laney: y no git clone? :)
<ogra_> (because its such heavy fruit it hangs very low)
<ajmitch> heh
<Laney> put that in the packaging guide ^o)
<Laney> it's such a ripe, juicy fruit
 * ajmitch wants to be able to build on armhf at home
<dholbach> any more serious notes? :)
<ogra_> even more serious ?
<ajmitch> dholbach: I looked at the list earlier today, it looked useful :)
<Laney> well, are you proposing to have uploads for those typo fixes?
<ajmitch> I'll try & add anything else I come across that may be useful
<dholbach> Laney, they're ubuntu-only packages
<Laney> I know, I'm just wondering about uploading /just/ to fix a one-word typo
<dholbach> I'll leave that to the sponsor to decide
<dholbach> if they just want to commit into some branch, that's fine with me :)
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I don't know how much of an emphasis you will be placing on having stuff in the archive is all
<dholbach> I guess the main point is that we provide new contributors with stuff they can easily start with and get their feet wet
<ajmitch> I think if fixes aren't uploaded they may get lost in the noise
<ajmitch> & people like to see their name on the -changes list
<ajmitch> even if it's a really small fix for something
<dholbach> so if they enjoy fixing something, easily learn processes and tools and find and entry point, then we have succeeded
 * ajmitch wonders if he can switch timezones with someone in order to make it to the meeting this week
<dholbach> it might be a good idea to try to agree on alternating times for the meeting
<dholbach> I realised that this meeting is going to clash with a meeting I have as well :-/
<ajmitch> could be, but only if you're going to have enough people showing up at the agreed-upon times
<dholbach> I think we had the old meetings at 12 and 22 UTC or something - this might work better for UTC+ and UTC- timezones
<ajmitch> we can sort that out when needed
<geser> I saw "revu-tools" on that list? is revu-tools still used and usefull?
<geser> dholbach: didn't the old MOTU meetings rotate with 8h?
<dholbach> ah yes, sorry
<dholbach> 12 and 20 UTC
<dholbach> I just checked some of the entries on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextMOTUMeeting?action=info
<geser> I mean, didn't we have 3 meeting times?
<ajmitch> geser: it's so long ago now :)
<dholbach> geser, I think I recall us doing that for Packaging Training sessions, but for the meeting, I'm unsure
<geser> looking at diffs from your linked page: 4:00 UTC, 12:00 UTC and 20:00 UTC
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: So you know the way I said that Archive.getPublishedSources() probably wouldn't be that slow for figuring out what to auto-sync?
<cjwatson> Um, yeah
<cjwatson> >>> date(); len([(s.source_package_name, s.source_package_version) for s in quantal_sources]); date()
<cjwatson> Wed May 23 14:23:29 BST 2012
<cjwatson> 19783
<cjwatson> Wed May 23 14:36:31 BST 2012
<tumbleweed> cjwatson: aah, I thought you were just going to look at Sources.bz2
<cjwatson> That's the next fallback; unfortunately it doesn't correspond well with what Launchpad's imported, in the case of Debian
<cjwatson> Which means that I need to concern myself with the case where somebody uploads something to unstable every six hours and we never sync it because Launchpad is always a bit behind Sources
<cjwatson> I guess I can use the Debian Sources file just for "is it newer", and the rest can come from what Launchpad has imported
<tumbleweed> that works
<geser> cjwatson: wouldn't it be enough to check only new published records (created_since_date) since the last run? or am I missing something?
<cjwatson> That might help if I knew when the last run was
<cjwatson> I mean, I do, but the script doesn't
<cjwatson> It's not necessarily always run by the same admin, for instance
<geser> can't the script save the date it got last run in some file?
<geser> hmm, that probably won't work if the AA run that script on their own machines, unless there is some common storage all AA can access
<vibhav> tumbleweed: ping
<tumbleweed> an overlap presumably wouldn't matter too much
<tumbleweed> vibhav: yup?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Since I have not triaged any bugs, what do I write in my application to the bug control?
<tumbleweed> vibhav: if you haven't been triaging bugs, what do you need bugcontrol membership for?
<ScottK> You wait until you triage some bugs, I'd think.
<vibhav> tumbleweed: Nominating bugs for SRU
<jtaylor> I don't think bug control can do that anymore
<jtaylor> or was it bug squad where it was changed?
<vibhav> I think its still bug control
<ScottK> In any case, you need to do some triaging first.
<vibhav> ok
<PaoloRotolo> Salve
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/remmina/+bug/1000356 anyone knows what bugreporter just means ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000356 in remmina (Ubuntu) "remmina/xfreerdp crashes while trying to use 'remote control'" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> can't seem to simulate it
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-24
<broder> @time utc
<ubottu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 24 2012, 06:43:08
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> allison, broder, tumbleweed, ajmitch: any more ideas, feedback or updates for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative?
<kmdm> Hi guys, if I want to test how a package (slapd) behaves (or doesn't, in this case) during the preinst/postinst process of a 'do-release-upgrade -d' between 10.04 -> 12.04 : what's the best of trying a patched package (given that do-release-upgrade disables thirdparty repos)
<bulldog98> hi guys I need help with an security update for owncloud in precise
<vibhav> bulldog98: Which update?
<bulldog98> I already have packaged a newer version of it, but I need someone to upload
<bulldog98> vibhav: from 3.0.0 to 3.0.3
<bulldog98> which fixed some issues
<bulldog98> concerning security
<vibhav> bulldog98: Have you created a debdiff?
<bulldog98> vibhav: not yet howto do that?
<vibhav> Have you packaged a new version of owncloud or just fixed a security flaw?
<bulldog98> vibhav: both
<geser> bulldog98: try #ubuntu-hardened for the security folks, but you need to backport those security fixes to the version in precise
<vibhav> yes
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures might help too
<vibhav> bulldog98: What geser and dholbach said
<bulldog98> hm
<vibhav> Could somebody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/749748 for natty and oneiric?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 749748 in system-config-samba (Ubuntu) "system-config-samba.py crashed with ImportError in /usr/share/system-config-samba/mainWindow.py: No module named glade" [High,Fix released]
<bulldog98> upstream said donât use 3.0.0 please update to 3.0.3 canât we just do that?
<dholbach> bulldog98, personally, I think I'd file a bug report with the update request, mention all the reasons for the update and the CVE number and subscribe the ubuntu-security-sponsors team to have them have a look over it
<dholbach> that way all the relevant people have all the relevant information
<bulldog98> dholbach: hm I donât have a CVE number yet because all that stuff is traced in the owncloud bug tracker
<dholbach> well then all the security bugs over there
<bulldog98> only thing I have in lp is bug #996185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 996185 in owncloud (Ubuntu) "Weak password reset token & code exec in ownCloud 3.0.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/996185
<dholbach> if you have links in the upstream bug tracker, then put them into the upgrade bug report too along with the bugs in Ubuntu this would fix
<vibhav> dholbach: Are you busy?
<dholbach> how can I help?
<vibhav> dholbach: Could you nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/749748 for natty and  oneiric?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 749748 in system-config-samba (Ubuntu) "system-config-samba.py crashed with ImportError in /usr/share/system-config-samba/mainWindow.py: No module named glade" [High,Fix released]
<vibhav> Also, About the Bug Fixing Initiative, what about a fix-it week
<dholbach> vibhav, yes, the idea we had at UDS was to present a bug fixing initiative list at every motu meeting
<dholbach> so every 2 weeks
<dholbach> vibhav, done
<vibhav> thanks
<vibhav> Could somebody check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/749748/comments/6 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 749748 in system-config-samba (Ubuntu Oneiric) "system-config-samba.py crashed with ImportError in /usr/share/system-config-samba/mainWindow.py: No module named glade" [Undecided,In progress]
<geser> the MOTU meeting is today in 2:30h, right?
<geser> should it get added to the topic perhaps?
<vibhav> what?
<geser> vibhav: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2012-May/007236.html
<l3on> Hey guys.. do you know what's wrong with:
<l3on> $ bzr lp-propose-merge lp:ubuntu/forked-daapd
<l3on> Most recent Ubuntu version: 0.19gcd-2ubuntu1
<l3on> Packaging branch status: CURRENT
<l3on> bzr: ERROR: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/forked-daapd/ is not registered on Launchpad
<dholbach> l3on, you could try asking in #bzr - I personally don't know
<dholbach> geser, good idea
<dholbach> allison, broder, tumbleweed, ajmitch: meeting in 1h - do you have any more ideas, feedback or updates for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative? :)
<tumbleweed> dholbach: sorry, been mostly offline for the last couple of days
<dholbach> I hope it's nothing serious :)
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> naah, was flying to london. And arrived to find very poor internet connectivity
 * tumbleweed wonders what revu-tools is still doing in the archive
<dholbach> I'm wondering how much work it'd be to go through merges and pick a few easy ones for intermediate folks
<dholbach> feel free to pick it off the list :)
<micahg> when's the MOTU meeting?
<dholbach> in 1h
<highvoltage> is that going to be the usual time for motu meetings?
<dholbach> highvoltage, no, meeting times is #1 on the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<micahg> Rhonda: do you work on packages.debian.org as well (should this conversation move elsewhere)?
<Rhonda> Sure, potentially #debian-ubuntu or #debian-www on oftc. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ depending on what exactly your question is.
<iulian> tumbleweed: That's because of this bloody weather!
 * dupondje waves to tumbleweed 
<dholbach> MOTU meeting in 3m in #u-meeting
<dholbach> geser, we're discussing motu meeting times right now :)
<zooko`> Hey folks--does anybody have strong juju fu and want to collaborate with me on writing a charm for Tahoe-LAFS?
<zooko`> I think it should be pretty easy.
<micahg> zooko: I figure -server is a better place to discuss juju charms
<zooko> micahg: thanks!
<dholbach> geser, sorry, we moved on already - we'll bring it up on the mailing list
<dholbach> geser, if you want scrollback, let me know
<geser> dholbach: will read the log on irclogs.u.c later
<dholbach> ok cool
<ajmitch> morning
<tumbleweed> does that mean you got some sleep?
<ajmitch> barely
 * ajmitch did go back to bed after the meeting, not sure if it helped at all
<micahg> is planet broken or is no one blogging
<ajmitch> there were a couple of posts yesterday
<dupondje> tumbleweed: could you think about my MOTU application if you have some spare time? :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-25
<vibhav> Good Morning
<vibhav> can https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamaris/+bug/569514 be nominated for oneiric, natty and luicd?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569514 in calamaris (Debian) "Doesn't work for squid3 logs" [Unknown,New]
<micahg> vibhav: if you plan on fixing it for all those releases, sure
<micahg> actually, I shouldn't say that until I look at the fix
<micahg> yeah, that would be fine for an SRU
<micahg> IMHO
<vibhav> micahg: Yes, I am planning it to fix it for all these releases
<micahg> vibhav: done
<vibhav> micahg: ping
<vibhav> micahg: I created an SRU for natty https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamaris/+bug/569514/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 569514 in calamaris (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Doesn't work for squid3 logs" [Undecided,New]
<micahg> vibhav: yes?
<micahg> vibhav: there's no changelog entry
<vibhav> micahg: wait
<vibhav> micahg: done
<micahg> vibhav: still not sure why you pinged me though
<vibhav> micahg: I wanted you to look at my debdiff
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<Laney> greetings
<Laney> how was the meeting? :-)
<micahg> Laney: we made you king of the MOTUs
<vibhav> yeah
<dholbach> King Laney, first of his name, sole ruler of bugs, sponsorship requests, bug fixing initiatives, packaging guide updates and lintian warnings
<Laney> that means I don't have to do any of the work myself, right?
<vibhav> NO
<Laney> \o/
<micahg> Laney: right, it all got assigned to broder
<dholbach> I'm not sure that's how it works - you have a kingdom to take care of
<vibhav> hehe
<dholbach> the meeting was great - I'll write the minutes in a bit
<vibhav> yeah, I was the only non-MOTU among all MOTUs
<ajmitch> Laney: I showed up, why didn't you? :)
<alkisg> Any good tools for writing man pages? Is docbook + po4a a good choice, in order to have them translatable in launchpad etc?
<Rhonda> vim :)
 * Rhonda prefers to write manpages directly in roff.
<Rhonda> But po4a is always a good choice
<alkisg> Rhonda: can sections be extracted and translated if one writes manpages directly in roff?
<Rhonda> I would assume so.
<Daviey> dholbach: Hey, i understand you reviewed two packages for yolanda?
<Daviey> dholbach: do you fancy uploading, and i'll review it in-queue?
<dholbach> Daviey, sure, why not - particularly the maintainer scripts would be good to have reviewed by a server person, for example
<dholbach> and license/copyright obviously
<Daviey> right.. thanks dholbach
<dholbach> thanks
<yolanda> hi
<Daviey> hey yolanda :)
<MrChrisDruif> dholbach; nice way to appraise Laney (about an hour ago)
<dholbach> :)
<MrChrisDruif> (I love scrollback ^_^)
<dholbach> Daviey, done
<l3on> dholbach, thanks for sponsor :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: going to sync/merge snort?
<dupondje> tumbleweed: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=650060 needs fixed first in debian, then we can sync
<ubottu> Debian bug 650060 in snort "snort: FTBFS with multiarch libmysqlclient-dev" [Serious,Open]
<dupondje> wanted to wait a bit :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: aah
<jtaylor> wtf https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyzmq/2.2.0-1/+build/3518451
<jtaylor> why is that building, all other arches are in dep-wait
<jtaylor> oh
<jtaylor> it was just installing to fail
<jtaylor> should ahve waited 5 more sec
<tumbleweed> aha, the workitem tracker doesn't like Informational blueprints and this is heron) [~lionel@abo-100-153-68.bdx.modulonet.fr]  has joined #ubun
<tumbleweed> err *this is: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-backports-bof
 * tumbleweed changes it to Unknown
<dupondje> tumbleweed: had time for my MOTU application yet ? :)
<bregma> hey folks, I uploaded a package to precise-proposed for an SRU and discovered a bug at the last minute, but I can't use dcut on Ubuntu archives -- how do I replace the erroneous package in the queue?
<bregma> ah, never mind, I can just upload over top, evidently
<jtaylor> or ask an admin in ubuntu-release to reject it
<ScottK> bregma: What package?
<ScottK> (both uploads will stay in the queue, so one ought to be rejected)
<micahg> Jump to: main (35) restricted (0) universe (666) multiverse (11)
<ajmitch> bit of a jump in ftbfs numbers?
<LordOfTime> zomg, universe is 666 o.O
<jtaylor> there was a sync yesterday
 * LordOfTime was reffering to the number being 666 :P
<LordOfTime> yeah, the sync got in quite a few things i was hoping were going to be included in Quantal :P
<micahg> ajmitch: yeah, I was hoping the sync would reduce the number :(
<jtaylor> wow the libpgm NMU was neat ..., new upstream version, weird version number, dropped patch which should not have been dropped, dropped autoreconf without reason
<jtaylor> and all that not even required to fix the rc bug
<tumbleweed> dupondje: yup
<dupondje> thanks ! :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-26
<vibhav> Why does pull-lp-source download from archive.ubuntu.com instaed of Launchpad?
<broder> it gets some information from LP, some from the archive
<broder> (specifically, the .dsc file comes from LP)
<broder> if the non-dsc files are available in an archive, it'll be faster to fetch than from LP
<vibhav> ah
<vibhav> dupondje: ping
<dupondje> vibhav: ?
<vibhav> dupondje: From where did you get the patch for the rdp clipboard fix?
<tumbleweed> no DEP3 tags?
<vibhav> tumbleweed: what?
<dupondje> vibhav: I made it myself
<vibhav> cool
<tumbleweed> vibhav: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<vibhav> Yeah, I saw that, dupondje's patch had no DEP3 tags
<vibhav> So I made them myself
<vibhav> dupondje: Any idea what do I write for "Reviewed by"?
<tumbleweed> leave it out
<vibhav> fine
<dupondje> vibhav: what your trying to do ? :p
<vibhav> dupondje: SRU it
<vibhav> (precise)
<dupondje> its already uploaded, but not accepted yet
<dupondje> see precise queue
<vibhav> ah thanks
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=remmina
<vibhav> Its too hot here, Looks like I am going to crash
<bdrung> tumbleweed: time to release u-d-t?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: IIRC a couple of the changes still need some testing
<tumbleweed> so, in a day or two
<tumbleweed> btw, you still need to re-backport distro-info-data
<Laney> bah, broken python-keyring
<bdrung> tumbleweed: feel free to do that. due to my ssd failure, i lost my backport pbuilder instance and i still need to set it up again
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I need to get my key in the backports keyring first
#ubuntu-motu 2012-05-27
<geser> Laney: bug #1004845 or a different one?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004845 in python-keyring (Ubuntu) "python-keyring doesn't work with python-crypto 2.6-1 (ValueError: IV must be 16 bytes long)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004845
<Laney> geser: yes, I found that
<tumbleweed> great python-crypto is about to migrate to debian testing. /me files an RC bug
<tumbleweed> oh, it has
<geser> looks like the fix for bug #997464 made the IV madatory (unlike optional as mentioned in the documentation)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 997464 in Python-Crypto "Block ciphers allow empty string as IV." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997464
<tumbleweed> geser: looks like the commit intended to make it mandatory for CFB https://github.com/dlitz/pycrypto/commit/411f60f58cea79f7e93476ba0c069b80a2a4c1a0
<tumbleweed> which makes sense. CFB uses an IV
<geser> and using an IV matches the example in the python file but not the documentation
<geser> https://github.com/dlitz/pycrypto/blob/761eb61d2eee8e18e63812ac207d671b2a026eca/lib/Crypto/Cipher/AES.py
<geser> https://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/api/current/Crypto.Cipher.AES-module.html#new
<geser> l3on: are you planing to merge grass?
<geser> a crash in dh_python2? can someone familiar with dh_python2 take a look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/106081123/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.magics%2B%2B_2.14.11-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<tumbleweed> geser: nice
<jtaylor> noo magics++ that thing takes hours to build :(
<geser> 30min on the buildds till that crash
<jtaylor> ok 30 min, its still so long I don't really want to look at it :)
<geser> start your pbuilder and go eat (or do something else) :)
 * tumbleweed takes a guess as to the casue, while waiting for the build
<tumbleweed> geser: the magics++ issue is that it calls dh_python2 twice
<tumbleweed> and the second time it encounters the broken symlink that it left behind after the first run
<tumbleweed> yay for maintainers who can't drive dh
<jtaylor> dh_python2 shouldn't crash if run twice
<jtaylor> or leave behind broken symlinks
<tumbleweed> I don't think anything requires dh_ tools to be idempotent
<tumbleweed> it's fairly common to do mv in builds
<tumbleweed> it leaves behind a broken symlink becasue it renames .so.0.0.0 to .so
<tumbleweed> (autotools doesn't know that python extensions aren't usefully versioned)
<tumbleweed> but yes, it probably should cleanup the .so.X too
<jtaylor> it doesn't happen in debian due to python2.6?
<tumbleweed> haven't actually figured out why it doesn't happen on debian yet. /me plays some more
<dupondje> The Developer Membership Board will consider a maximum of two applicants per meeting â if the agenda already lists two applicants for the next meeting, please attend the next free date (meetings are held every two weeks).
<dupondje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<dupondje> looks like there are 2 applications already ...
<dupondje> but is it 2 or 3 now ? :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: correct. jbicha and negronjl got there first
<dupondje> and no date for next meeting it seems
<dupondje> gotto wait a bit then :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: add 2 weeks
<dupondje> hmz crap, thats the 18'the, then i'm abroad :s
<tumbleweed> dupondje: + 2 weeks again?
<Rcart> #join ubuntu-classroom-es
<Rcart> sorry  :X
<bobweaver> hello there are there any plans for Ubuntu Developer Week coming up later on this year ? I looked at the wiki and I can not seem to find anything thanks as always for your time :)
<geser> bobweaver: there is usually one around each release. dholbach might know when the next UDW is
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-20
<cjwatson> dupondje: I think fsl can be synced; do you agree?  It fixes basically the same things in a slightly different way.
<cjwatson> (And it's part of http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/libgd2.html)
<psusi> there is't a handy program somewhere that can take real time log output and timestamp it is there?
<tumbleweed> psusi: ts from moreutils
<psusi> tumbleweed: cool, thanks
<alo21> hi all... I required a sync for alsa-plugins, but I got a comment about it, which I didn't understand very well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-plugins/+bug/1181384/comments/1.  can someone help me on understanding why they decided to do not sync the package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1181384 in alsa-plugins (Ubuntu) "Sync alsa-plugins 1.0.27-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<tumbleweed> alo21: presumably that TheMuso is preparing an upload of that package, himself
<tumbleweed> I see 1.0.27-1ubuntu1 in that PPA. 1.0.27-2 is the same as 1.0.27-1, but uploaded to unstable...
<alo21> tumbleweed, yea...I asked a sync because is in unstable now too
<tumbleweed> anyway, he did a merge, not a sync
<tumbleweed> so if you think the remaining delta should be dropped, take that up with him
<alo21> tumbleweed, why do you prefer a merge instead of a sync?
<tumbleweed> alo21: that's not what I said. I haven't looked at the details
<Laney> mistab?
<tumbleweed> but presumably you have
<alo21> do what?
<alo21> cjwatson, hi...may I take care of efibootmgr merge?
<cjwatson> alo21: we can just leave it for now - I've forwarded the last change to Debian and I think Steve's likely to accept it or something similar, then we can sync
<cjwatson> alo21: until then there's no substantive change in the merge so no real point bothering
<cjwatson> alo21: and if there's going to be a merge, I'd rather do it myself so that I retain touched-it-last and am more likely to see that a sync needs to happen :)
<alo21> cjwatson, Ok, thanks for your exhaustive reply
<alo21> mdeslaur, hi... may I take care of virt-manager merge?
<jtaylor> alo21: you are really picking the wrong pacakges for your skill level
<jtaylor> everything I see you mentioned I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole :)
<jtaylor> (not because its bad but because I don't think I'm qualified to do it)
<jtaylor> alo21: look in the universe merge list, there are likely easier packages there with lower risk of breaking essential infrastructure
<alo21> jtaylor, could you give me some suggestions on how to pick the right package, please?
<alo21> ok... perfect
<alo21> mdeslaur, as jtaylor said may be i'm not the right person to do merge this package :). Sorry for the inconvenience
<alo21> micahg, hi... may I ask you just a little thing?
<TheMuso> alo21, we carry the plugins that use libav in a separate package because there is a technical board directive that requires libav not to be on the images. People still want to use such plugins however, so they can install after the fact if they so wish.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-21
<TheMuso> And at this point, there is no point merging with 1.0.27-2, because its just a changelog entry and a re-upload to unstable, so doesn't bring anything in thats needed over 1.0.27-1.
<TheMuso> And ALSA is one of those things hwere we have to tread carefully. As it is we haven't put out a wider call for testing yet because there are some important bugs that still need addressing that could be an issue for some.
<dupondje> cjwatson: about fsl, if it builds fine, it should be ok :). Was just a fix to make it build again.
<cjwatson> OK, I'll double-check and sync if it works, thanks
<cjwatson> dupondje: Looks fine.  Synced.
<dupondje> good :)
<alo21> hi everybody... I am trying to merge bluemaa, but I have some questions about it..
<Rhonda> wtf.
<Rhonda> "Dear Mr. Fuchs"  *nibbles on Laney*
<Rhonda> Why do people assume male gender?
<Laney> Serious problems with Mr. Fuchs
<Rhonda> Of course.
<alo21> there is series.DEBIAN and series.UBUNTU in my debian/patches folder. the first now track only some patches, the second one others.... my question is: have to merge both files in one?
<Rhonda> Laney: The mail is even in German.  I'm puzzled. :)
<TheLordOfTime> i just address people as "SIR OR MADAM" when talking about IRC individuals
<TheLordOfTime> unless I know someone :
<TheLordOfTime> P
<Rhonda> alo21: Why do you think you have to merge them?
<Laney> Hi $nick, works
<tumbleweed> "you there"
<Rhonda> TheLordOfTime: Do it the other way round. :)
<TheLordOfTime> Laney:  true, but :P
<alo21> Rhonda, are series files important to apply patches?
<Laney> alo21: You have to figure out what goes in what by examining the package
<Laney> See: merges aren't a good place to get started
<Rhonda> alo21: Of course, because they define which patches will get applied?
<tumbleweed> alo21: merges really aren't a good place to get started
<alo21> Rhonda, so.. as I told in my debian/patches folder I have two series file
<Rhonda> Right.  And depending on the distribution you build on, either the one or the other will get used.
<alo21> Laney, tumbleweed I've just made practise with sync, and I would like to do something a little bit difficult
<Rhonda> Is there a German language ubuntu-users list?
<Laney> ubuntu-de@lists.ubuntu.com
<tumbleweed> merges and syncs are the same thing, really. You need to figure out whether a merge or a sync is the right thing to do, and that can be quite hard
<alo21> Rhonda, does it means that I can delete series.DEBIAN file?
<Laney> it's not technically an equivalent of ubuntu-users but should be good enough
<Rhonda> Laney: Thanks.
<Rhonda> alo21: No, you shouldn't.  That would be an unnecessary change.
<alo21> tumbleweed, ok... I think blueman is a worth-merge.. and it can't be dropped. Am I right?
<alo21> Rhonda, Do I have to check which debian's patches are useful in Ubuntu too?
<geser> Rhonda: isn't series.DEBIAN and series.UBUNTU from the bzr merge where bzr couldn't automatically resolve the conflict and let the user do it?
<tumbleweed> series.$distro is certainly a dpkg thing too
<Laney> that's vendor.series
<tumbleweed> ah
<Rhonda> alo21: They should already be in series.UBUNTU I would expect.
<Rhonda> geser: Oh, no clue about that part.  I thought they are this new fangled quilt v3 source format series files for each distribution?
<Rhonda> Alright, forget my comments then, Laney knows better. :)
<alo21> Rhonda, not all of them...in patches folder there are 3 .patch file and 7 patches without .patch extension
<Laney> I imagine throwing in a VCS when you're already confused isn't the most helpful thing in the world
<Rhonda> alo21: The extension doesn't mean much for patch files, to be honest.
<alo21> Rhonda, series.UBUNTU tracks only .patch files, and series.DEBIAN the rest
<alo21> what should I do?
<geser> without knowing the package you try to merge: this sounds like the patches got renamed and bzr doesn't know how to resolve the conflict
<alo21> geser, ok... I have another question too...
<geser> I would suggest you first try to figure out what changed in the Debian branch (like renamed files) to better understand how the merge should like like
<alo21> ok... thanks
<Laney> bdrung: tumbleweed: Care to look at https://code.launchpad.net/~ursinha/ubuntu-dev-tools/fix_getBinaryPackage/+merge/159076 ?
<tumbleweed> oh right I had seen that
<psusi> ${word%%[*} should strip the string "sda1[1]" down to just the "sda1" part shouldn't it?
<geser> psusi: my bash agrees (word="sda1[1]"; echo ${word%%[*} -> sda1)
<psusi> hrm... that is odd.. because it isn't working in os-prober
<psusi> wait... shit... looks like this may be a bloody bash vs. dash issue
<geser> is os-prober run by bash? or only sh?
<psusi> the shbang line is /bin/sh, so that's dash these days iirc
<geser> yes
<geser> word="sda1[1]"; echo ${word%%\[*} works in dash
<geser> (and bash)
<geser> psusi: ^^
<psusi> cjwatson: could you take a look at bug #905607?  Simple missing escape character in os-prober causes it to fail to skip probing raid component devices when using dash
<ubottu> bug 905607 in os-prober (Ubuntu) "software raid component drives erroneously detected" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905607
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-22
<dholbach> good morning
<mitya57> pypy still building? sounds like a world record :)
<tumbleweed> mitya57: somebody must have retried it, which is silly because I plan to upload 2.0.2 as soon as python-jinja2 is installable on sid
<tumbleweed> (oh, and I happen to know that that 2.0.0 *will* fail to build on ARM :P )
 * tumbleweed swears insanetoolkit used to be worse than this
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-23
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<Rhonda> no habla espanol  *nibbles on Laney*  ;)
<Rhonda> (it was legit mail about libqt4-webkit package, but I still don't speak any spanish)
<Laney> that's got to have a low chance of success
<jaalto> Hi, I'd like to contact LP person "zapman" https://launchpad.net/~zapman to talk about zoo package bug Buntu/Debian. Does anyone know how to reach him or know his email? It's concernign about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zoo/+bug/892788
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892788 in zoo (Ubuntu) "Adding a file to a zoo archive returns a fatal error on amd64" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Laney> jaalto: I suspect your best bet if you can't find him any other way is to try your luck with "Contact this user" on Launchpad
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/%7Ezapman/+contactuser
<jaalto> Laney: Ok. Thanks. I was unable to find email addresss. Is there a way to check any contributions from LP BZR logs?
<Laney> click "Code" and see
<jaalto> Laney: Oh yes, thanks.
<jaalto> Laney: Would it be Raphael Manfredi? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~zapman/gtk-gnutella/devel/changes
<Laney> I have no idea who it is
<Laney> try sending an email
<jaalto> Laney: Probably best. I took a stab at +contactuser.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-24
<dholbach> good morning
<Legendario> hi. I'm trying to package a software and I'm having the following error. I have no clue about how to solve it: bzr: ERROR: Unable to find the needed upstream tarball for package
<Legendario> the orig.tar.gz package is right above on the directory
<Legendario> anyone can help?
<Legendario> those are my first attempts to create a package
<jtaylor> Legendario: probably its looking in ../tarballs
<Legendario> jtaylor, should i create such a directory and copy the tarball to this place?
<jtaylor> yes
<Legendario> jtaylor, let me try it :-)
<Legendario> jtaylor, now I got another error... bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/kemel/devel/debian-packages/dukto/".
<Legendario> :-(
<Legendario> jtaylor, no... same error. I was in the wrong directory
<jtaylor> is the file named correctly?
<jtaylor> version number the same
<Legendario> jtaylor, yes... I guess it was that
<Legendario> jtaylor, thanks. I'll try to go ahead here
<mfisch> Legendario: are you using bzr-buildpackage?
<Legendario> mfisch, sim
<Legendario> mfisch, yes
<mfisch> sorry I don't know what sim is
<mfisch> but if you are using bzr-buildpackage you need to do it from your bzr tree, thats the second error
<mfisch> that command rebuilds the .orig so I thought
<Legendario> thanks guys
<Legendario> gotta leave
<alo21> hi..crtools has been built for 64 bit arch only...
<alo21> now I am going to merge/sync it, and my questions is: Is ok if I built crtools only for 64 bit (32 bit failed)?
<jtaylor> its amd64 only
<jtaylor> I'd wait until the new version is in unstable
<jtaylor> I doubt it works with the raring kernel anyway
<jtaylor> hm interesting, it does not need kernel support
<alo21> jtaylor, how much time does import from experimental take?
<jtaylor> ask the maintainer
<jtaylor> its probably in experimental for a reason
<jtaylor> its early enough in the cycle so we can just wait
<jtaylor> also you again picked an incredible complicated package
<jtaylor> you have a nack for that
<jtaylor> (the packaging might be simple, didn't check, but the functionality is non trivial)
<alo21> wow... that's incredible.... anyway thanks.
<jtaylor> Logan_: will you merge gevent soon?
<Logan_> jtaylor: It appears to be synced with Debian, no?
<jtaylor> oh
<jtaylor> why is my autoppkgtest still failing then :O
<Logan_> Oh, because of a bug I reported. D'oh.
<Logan_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-gevent/+bug/1181942
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1181942 in python-gevent (Ubuntu) "Sync python-gevent 0.13.7-4 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<Logan_> I do way too much syncing and merging for my own good. :P
<jtaylor> ok its jsut autopkgtest bugging out
<jtaylor> all tests pass
<jtaylor> s/autopkgtest/jenkins/
<Logan_> Oh, cool.
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-25
<alo21> jtaylor, hi.... can you tell me how can I find a more suitable package for me, please?
<alo21> geser, hi... may I ask you a thing?
<nonickname2> hi. warp10: i tried cellwriter on kubuntu 13.04 and stumbled over the bug of multi-stroke character input not working - according to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=690214, you're in the process of updating the package to 1.3.5, which is said to fix this bug - do you know by chance when that package will be available?
<ubottu> Debian bug 690214 in cellwriter "cellwriter: New upstream release (1.3.5) available" [Wishlist,Open]
<warp10> nonickname2: I have been busy for quite a while, but I wish to close that bug ASAP. Let's say the ETA is end of june. Feel free to ping me again if that bug is still open afterward
<nonickname2> ah, nice - thanks :)
<warp10> yw ;)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-05-26
<gotwig> hey
<gotwig> where can I find an overview of the categories for debian packages
<tumbleweed> gotwig: you mean archive sections?
<gotwig> what ever...
<gotwig> I found it
<gotwig> how can I fix copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl
<tumbleweed> $ lintian-info --tags copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl
<gotwig> tumbleweed, how can I fix this
<tumbleweed> do you understand the problem, from lintian's description of it?
<tumbleweed> generally, you change the paragraph that says that the GPL should have been included with the software to say something like:
<tumbleweed> On Debian systems, the complete text of the GNU General Public License version 2 can be found in the /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 file.
<gotwig> hm
<gotwig> which exact line do I have to add
<gotwig> to specify the location of the Gplv3 file
<tumbleweed> what I said, but for GPL 3
<tumbleweed> and remove the pragraph saying: You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this program.
<gotwig> where do I have to add this line
<tumbleweed> where the one I just mentioned was
<gotwig> I dont understand...
<gotwig> in debian/control right?
<tumbleweed> debian/copyright
<gotwig> or debian/copyright
<gotwig> ok
<tumbleweed> there's no copyright information in debian/control
<gotwig> So, I have to past the GPLv3 license there?
<gotwig> under the License: GPL-3.0 section
<tumbleweed> well, not the whole license, because that's available in /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3
<tumbleweed> just the couple of paragraphs described at the end of the license
<gotwig> >_>
<gotwig> these beginning with     <program>  Copyright (C) <year>  <name of author>
<gotwig>  ?
<tumbleweed> can I suggest that you look at some existing debian/copyright files?
<tumbleweed> or http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/
<tumbleweed> but yes, those ones
<gotwig> tumbleweed, any link for "other project" examples?
<gotwig> found it...
<tumbleweed> any of my packages? (they're mostly in pretty good shape)
<gotwig> do you speak German?
<tumbleweed> I'm afraid not
<alo21> geser_, hi...may ask you a thing?
<alo21> hi... I run ../merge-buildpackage with rfakeroot, but I got: dpkg-source: error: aborting due to unexpected upstream changes
<alo21> and I tells me to integrate the changes with dpkg-source --commit. why?
<alo21> is there someone who can help me, please?
<ScottK> alo21: The easiest way to find out is run dpkg-source --commit and then look at what's in the patch it generates.
<alo21> ScottK, I took a look, and the patch is the same of the .ubuntu1 previous change
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-20
<pancakes9> hey, i'm a new contributor and need some help getting started
<pancakes9> anyone around?
<rbasak> !ask | pancakes9
<ubottu> pancakes9: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<pancakes9> Can someone guide me (a new contributor) in getting started helping out?
<ki7mt> pancakes9, a good place to start reading (may as well get used to it, there's lots to read) are the links at the top of the channel.
<Laney> pancakes9: Yeah, the Contributing link is decent
<Laney> A good place to start is with a favourite package, if you have one - go to Launchpad, look at its bugs and see if you can help them along
<Laney> Otherwise we'll need to know what your specific interests are
<ki7mt> I just started on this as well. I'm working on a new pkg I want to get approved, and it's proving to be a bit of a challenge.
<ki7mt> Actually, I do have question, while Im here. bzr builddeb v.s debuild and pbuilder .. what's the preferred method?
<pancakes9> ki7mt: do you just download the latest ubuntu release and load it in virtualbox?
<ki7mt> No, Im working on the upstream packages
<pancakes9> what are upstream packages?
<ki7mt> The programs / applications that are non-Ubuntu
<pancakes9> ki7mt: how did you jump into that so quickly?
<ki7mt> No so quickly, been working on those apps for Linux in general for a long time, just now learning how to package for Debian and Ubuntu.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-21
<pancakes9> if there's a new bug, how do I change the status to confirmed?
<pancakes9> If there is a bug I am interested in handling, do I assign all the components in the affects table to myself (if there are multiple)?
<pancakes9> also, can I get a MOTU mentor?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-23
<damianr> exit
#ubuntu-motu 2014-05-25
<Noskcaj_> Logan_, Next time you're around could you help me get the irc bouncer set up again
<Noskcaj_> I finally have a new laptop
<damianr>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER DamianR rmamvwhgktnt
<ogra_> better changeyour password now ;)
<damianr> damn spaces
<damianr> Hi there sorry to trouble you guys, I am new around here. I am looking forward to contribute to ubuntu. It would be great to get some pointers where to start and all. And greater if anyone could spent some time with me on this. Thank you.
<Adri2000> is it acceptable to backport two packages together (one build-depending on the other) ?
<ScottK> Adri2000: Yes, but if there's other rdepends you have to test they still work.
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-18
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> Laney: thanks for the avidemux fix, I was going to try to package the new version (still might), but was having trouble since the build system changed quite a bit
<Laney> micahg: Go wild, didn't even look at that :)
<Laney> thanks for the rest of the transition!
<micahg> it's nice to actually be doing some uploads :)
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-19
<micahg> I seem to have an issue with debian/.gitattributes being removed on a no change rebuild (even without clean), it has no diff, so it'll be sync'd right over anyways, I would think this is ok, but wanted to bounce it off someone
<ScottK> Don't see how it matters since we aren't using git.
<micahg> right, ok, thanks
<micahg> that should be it for the libgsoap transition, yay
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-20
<dholbach> good morning
<psusi> so I was using fscanf to extract some parameters from /etc/meminfo like this:
<psusi> fscanf (info, "MemTotal: %*d kB MemFree: %d kB Buffers: %d kB Cached: %d kB"
<psusi> it seems that at some point they added a new MemAvailable field between MemFree and Buffers and now this fails
<psusi> how can I work around this?  i.e. specify that there may or may not be an additional string there, and I don't care whether it is or is not
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-21
<Laney> jamespage: say... you know java things, right? Does the jffi build failure make any sense to you?
<Laney> (sorry!)
<Laney> I spent some time on it but I basically don't know about this build system so it's a mystery
<Laney> and via a long chain of crap it's blocking things in proposed-migration
<Laney> oh, I bet you're at that openstack thing
<Laney> RATS!
#ubuntu-motu 2015-05-22
<arminb> Hi, I have a short question, on the webpage Getting started with MOTU I saw that the next meeting is defined for 2012 and package training is tbd. I am very interested in the Packaging training session, when will the next date be defined?
<sladen> arminb: wow, that is somewhat out of date
<sladen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<sladen> people arne't as active here as they used to be
<arminb> yes and also in the https://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com
<sladen> what's interesting is it doesn't seem to have changed
<sladen> perhaps it's being fetched from an external calendar
<arminb> the last entry there is from a year ago
<sladen> arminb: I've just pinged <jose> on IRC
<sladen> arminb: if you're able to able a couple of minutes they might be able to update you
<sladen> arminb: (they're just finishing their lunch)
<jose> sladen: ping
<sladen> hello jose, meeting arminb ; arm
<jose> whoops, that wasn't the right button
<sladen> oh well
<jose> what was it? maybe I can email him
<sladen> https://launchpad.net/~armin-breiteneder
<sladen> (although the normal frustration of /not/ being able to track someone down after they vanish)
<sladen> (although I knoew the normal frustration of /not/ being able to track someone down after they vanish)
<sladen> know
<sladen> jose: original question was "on the webpage Getting started with MOTU I saw that the next meeting is defined for 2012 and package training is tbd. I am very interested in the Packaging training session, when will the next date be defined?"
<sladen> jose: a think in thise case the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted must be pulling from an out of date calendar; perhaps on https://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com
<sladen> but even that seems out of date
<jose> welp, that is something MOTU driven in the classroom space
<jose> not sure we, as classroom team, have much say on that
<jose> if someone wants to do it, they're totally welcome to
<sladen> jose: since you've got more of a handle on it than I; would you still be able to do a quick email follow-up to arminb, and see if we can redirect them somewhere
<jose> gotcha, will do. Thanks for letting me know!
<sladen> jose: thank you!  I hope you didn't miss too much dinner!
<jose> just lunchtime over here, no worries :)
<jose> we're here to help!
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-23
<Doan> áº½it
#ubuntu-motu 2016-05-26
<karstensrage> i cant thank you guys enough for the backports
<karstensrage> thank you micahg and Laney
<karstensrage> and you too teward
<Unit193> Oh you finally got it in?
<karstensrage> yeah
<karstensrage> Laney did it
<Unit193> Congrats.
<karstensrage> thank you :)
<karstensrage> i really wish it wasnt so unbalanced, its a huge problem i understand but im super appreciative
<karstensrage> id even send beer or donuts to someone in thanks :)
<Unit193> Problem is very few: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters/+members (and don't think they're all active either.)
<karstensrage> Yeah definitely not
<teward> I'd offer to do stuff for Backports, but I'm quite happy just sticking to nginx and a few other packages as triage overwatch, thanks :P
<teward> karstensrage: glad to see it finally got looked at.  (Patience *does* pay off)
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-23
<epigfanio> Hello
<epigfanio> i'm struggling with tring to build a pytohn package ... it fails to find a dependency .. but I built a package for it and I have listed in the control file
<epigfanio> the package is 'python3-entrypoint'
<epigfanio> my PPA is:  https://launchpad.net/~epiesasha/+archive/ubuntu/jupyter/+packages
<epigfanio> it fails with:  Missing build dependencies: python3-argparse
<epigfanio> but I do have it in my control file
<epigfanio> i was wndering if it is a fault from my side or I need to wait a build from the ppa server ...
<epigfanio> I got confused by he liog
<epigfanio> this th e log https://launchpad.net/~epiesasha/+archive/ubuntu/jupyter/+build/12624488
<geser> epigfanio: isn't argparse part of python3? therefore there is no extra package and build-depending on python3 is enough
<epigfanio> geser: thanks for theadvice, I saw argparse in the pypi repository so I thought it was external dependency
<epigfanio> I removed it from the debian rules, butthe build failed again .. this time I'm having hardtome understanding the log error . it seems a test that failed
<epigfanio> this is the last build log https://launchpad.net/~epiesasha/+archive/ubuntu/jupyter/+build/12626772
<epigfanio> guys, what to do when trying to package a python librarty ... the test fail? I think in my case is a py3.5 vs py3.6 syntax error issue .. but not sure:  https://launchpad.net/~epiesasha/+archive/ubuntu/jupyter/+build/12628117
#ubuntu-motu 2017-05-25
<slashd> rbasak, morning, I'm re-sending the message just in case you missed it yesterday as it was probably EOD for you when I sent it, but I have re-uploaded the isc-dhcp for Trusty.
<rbasak> Hi!
<rbasak> I've reviewed, thanks. One issue. Sorry I didn't notice this before, because of the line wrapping I hadn't read the changelog message in detail.
<rbasak> And I appreciate the pain and am sorry about so many round trips.
<rbasak> "* Disable tracing and failover."
<rbasak> I really appreciate you noting this.
<rbasak> And I checked that it only applies to the -noddns package, so appreciate there is no regression.
<rbasak> So that's fine, but I feel that the changelog as it is right now is misleading and suggests that failover is being disabled for the entire source package.
<rbasak> I'd prefer to avoid readers panicking on that.
<rbasak> I think the readers who actually read the changelog are likely to be misled.
<slashd> rbasak, so you want me to remove this portion ?
<slashd> rbasak, sorry I missed the wrong channel by the way, still early for me, haven't took my coffee yet ;)
<rbasak> slashd: or just reword to make it clear that it applies only to the -noddns part?
<rbasak> That would be clearest I think.
<rbasak> slashd: do you want to pastebin it to I can see it to save going round again?
<slashd> rbasak, sure make sense, same thing as yesterday you reject and I re-upload ?
<rbasak> Yep
<slashd> rbasak, yes for the pastebin
<slashd> rbasak, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24654858/
<rbasak> slashd: that's fine, thanks! Please upload.
<slashd> rbasak, perfect
<slashd> will do in a couples of minutes
<slashd> rbasak, thanks for reviewing it
<rbasak> No problem. Sorry for the round trips.
<slashd> rbasak, no problem at all, you were totally right
<roaksoax> win 8
#ubuntu-motu 2018-05-21
<hyperair> is there any way to get a package that was deleted from bionic back into bionic? https://launchpad.net/~openscad/+archive/ubuntu/releases
<hyperair> i hadn't realized that there were issues with openscad in debian, and ubuntu doesn't even have a mipsel port damnit
<hyperair> now we're missing openscad in an LTS
<hyperair> sorry wrong url https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openscad/+publishinghistory
<Unit193> see Debian #883986: remove openscad, ftbfs, no rdeps
<ubottu> Debian bug 883986 in src:openscad "openscad: FTBFS on mips/mipsel: virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/883986
<Unit193> ""
<hyperair> yes i know
<hyperair> it ftbfs on mips/mipsel, but ubuntu doesn't even have those ports
<Unit193> I figured, I was pasting for others to find easily.
<hyperair> right, thanks
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openscad/2015.03-2+dfsg-2ubuntu5/+build/14270552 there's that though.
<hyperair> (and seriously, running out of memory? that's a build box problem)
<tsimonq2> (Contact an AA I guess?)
<Unit193> error: âvoid __glewTexStorage2DMultisample(GLenum, GLsizei, GLenum, GLsizei, GLsizei, GLboolean)â redeclared as different kind of symbol   Huh.
<hyperair> yeah i haven't seen that error before
<hyperair> weird
<Unit193> That's likely the *real* reason, ftbfs on arm64.
 * hyperair groans
<hyperair> guess i'll have to fix that first
<hyperair> Unit193: looks like armhf should have been disabled. there's a comment in debian/control with a build-conflicts on libgles2-mesa-dev
<hyperair> https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/292
<rbasak> hyperair: :(
<rbasak> I didn't know it was missing.
<rbasak> I have fixed other issues with openscad packaging though. It didn't seem to be in a great state to me (tests failing)
<rbasak> hyperair: I use it so I'd be happy to help drive getting something into backports.
<rbasak> A snap might be easier though.
<rbasak> It might make more sense, too. Upstream didn't seem to have a recent release the last I looked.
<rbasak> They seem to have done a ton of development since though
<rbasak> So an edge snap that follows master might be more useful for users.
<hyperair> rbasak: hmm, maybe i could convince upstream to make a new release
