#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-10
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202011/IMG_20110110_002736.jpg
<Azelphur> mission control...battered but once again semi-operational \o/
<hamitron> wtf you done?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<hamitron> hmmm
<niall> Hey guys. I was asking for help earlier regarding a 6 port serial card (MCS9865 chip). After a long day of poking around I solved the problem myself and wrote a how-to. This can be applied to other multiport serial cards which cause problems with the default maximum of 4 UARTs with the Ubuntu 10.10 kernel (and probably many other kernels in other versions as well as other distros). How-to is here: http://ubuntuforums.org/s
<niall> howthread.php?t=1663575
<hcfd> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1663575
<ali1234> when you say "default maximum of 4 UARTs with the Ubuntu 10.10 kernel" it reminds me of something i read a long time ago
<ball> hello waveform
<ball> hello em, too.
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> team meeting this evening
 * ball waves
<ball> Goodnight everyone.
<screen-x> morning :)
<popey> o/
<screen-x> yo popey :)
<DJones> Morning all
<lazarus_> DJones: sup
<DJones> Hi lazarus_
<czajkowski> Aloha
<screen-x> What's the difference between i3/i5 P55 and i3/i5 H55?
<selinuxium> Morning all o/
<screen-x> morning selinuxium :)
<DJones> screen-x: This might help http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=127497&mpage=1
<screen-x> DJones: thanks :)
<DJones> Doesn't mean a lot me, but seemed to list various differences
<screen-x> DJones: found a table here http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-clarkdale-core-i5-661,2514-6.html
<czajkowski> good morning sleepy monday
<DJones> Good morning czajkowski We're not sleeping, just resting our eyes
<czajkowski> kinda feels that way
<popey> :) bigcalm
 * bigcalm hugs popey 
<bigcalm> Super cute
<selinuxium> morning DJones czajkowski
<selinuxium> morning popey
<bigcalm> Oh, morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> popey: incase you were wondering, I had recently re-watched The Cat Returns
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> I'm a sucker for Studio Ghibli films
<czajkowski> not a great way to start a monday, stuck knee deep in writing documents and comparing versions :s
 * BigRedS keeps meaning to write his documentation
<BigRedS> it never feels like a great way to spend any time :(
<screen-x> BigRedS: meet dexy
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ah i like documents. means you cna find out what should be done
<czajkowski> just monday at 9am
<czajkowski> is a bit much :)
<bigcalm> popey: tease!
<BigRedS> screen-x: I'm documenting systems and configs, not code, so I don't think dexy's a particularly good fit...
<screen-x> oh, ok then..
<screen-x> meet... inkscape or ditaa ?
<BigRedS> haha. Most of the issue really is working out wtf is going on, rather than the actual documenting bit
<BigRedS> A lot of the stuff's odcumented, but in a really roundabout way - we have a wiki but without much structure
<screen-x> that sounds familiar :(
<BigRedS> screen-x: yeah, it's not a great deal of fun..
<BigRedS> OTOH, it's probably a reasonably good way of learning wtf is going on
<screen-x> At my previous employer I decided to create a load of network diagrams, as they really weren't sure where the cable runs were, it took _ages_
<czajkowski> BigRedS: indeed
<jpds> screen-x: Fun.
<Silver_Fox_> Hello.
<screen-x> \o Silver_Fox_
<Silver_Fox_> Hello screen-x
<nigelb> Hey, Silver_Fox_ :)
<Silver_Fox_> Hello nigelb ,  still frustrated with php development ?
<nigelb> Silver_Fox_: hehe, yeah, sort of. :D
<nigelb> Silver_Fox_: hows iphone so far?
<nigelb> *iphone development
<lazarus_> my bros places menu is messed up click videos opens banshee
<Silver_Fox_> nigelb,  Oh not so bad thank you.  =)
<screen-x> Getting some console log messages about terminated processes on a fresh 10.04 server install http://i.imgur.com/1KOGF.jpg
<screen-x> (at boot time)
<screen-x> Doesn't look serious as its only plymouth and ureadahead, but I haven't seen them before.
<diplo> Anyone know whats installed if I select "Virtual Machine Host" on Ubuntu 10.10 Server ?
<diplo> I normally install manually, just wondering if it's quicker to do this for KVM, can't find what package it installs yet, just googling
<diplo> Thought may be quicker here
<screen-x> diplo: tasksel --task-packages virt-host
<diplo> Cheers, just found it in google but will remember that
<davmor2> morning all
<Silver_Fox_> Hello.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.alphen.cc/nieuws/entertainment/article5814601.ece/Denise-Richards-weer-single
<MartijnVdS> ur
<MartijnVdS> wrong channel :)
<screen-x> haha
<MartijnVdS> something renumbered my irc windows
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I know a guy who's a fan :)
<DJones> Excuses :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: shh!
<screen-x> Heh Google translate is improving "Denise Richards and Nikki Sixx find each other not so pleasant than expected. The actress and MÃ¶tley CrÃ¼e bassist had a couple of weeks are dating, but are now their own path."
<bigcalm> I thought it was fairly reasonable myself
<screen-x> bigcalm: yeah, good enough to get the jist, which is not usual for machine translation..
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<Silver_Fox_> Afternoon brobostigon =)
<Silver_Fox_> How are you?
<brobostigon> Silver_Fox_: not so hot, my eczema is playing up, and is uite painful. how about you?
<Silver_Fox_> I am sorry to be hearing that brobostigon .
<Silver_Fox_> I am okay thank you. I am thinking about lunch =)
 * brobostigon is alittle hungry aswell.
<freckle> does anyone else find that PDF's take a lot longer to print than any other type of document?
<davmor2> Nope
<bigcalm> freckle: as in taking longer to be sent to the printer or the printer taking longer to print?
<cps> afternoon :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps
 * cps 's thinkpad arrived 5 mins ago :D
 * brobostigon gives cps an ubuntu cd
<cps> thanks :)
<brobostigon> :)
<freckle> bigcalm: taking longer to send to the printer. Basically is says in the spool monitor "Processing..."
<freckle> for example a 1 page PDF might take 4-5 mins processing while a 1 page word doc takes a couple of seconds
<cps_> grr
<cps_> wireless on my PC keeps dropping
<|Dreams|> ok installed arch linux got it configured n decided to come bk to ubuntu cant beat its finish lol
 * brobostigon curses atthe adsl
<cps> ok... for some reason the display keeps switching itself off after 5 minutes of running
<brobostigon> cps: iwould check the power saving stuff, yourmonitor might be set to go into standby to save power.
<screen-x> cps: my colleague has that problem, display keeps switching off, alt+f1 then alt+f7 temporarily brings it back.
<cps> brobostigon: it seems to happen when I move it
<screen-x> I think in his case its failing hardware.
<cps> it is second-hand mind you
<freckle> if in a VPN connection setup through network manager I configure a static route shouldn't the route be deleted if the VPN disconnects/fails?
<|Dreams|> any sites for fixing ubuntus boot up logo with propriatary
<|Dreams|> links*
<screen-x> freckle: sounds logical
<screen-x> |Dreams|: its gonna be grub or plymouth that you want to look into
<cps> can't guarantee an always-working lappy when second-hand
<|Dreams|> ok thanks
<screen-x> cps: sadly not :(
<cps> :\
<screen-x> cps: Though I bought a thinkpad ~10 years ago from ebay and it still works :)
<freckle> screen-x: in my experience the route stays... if you subsequently reconnect the VPN another route is added
<screen-x> screen has a red tinge now though.
<screen-x> freckle: got your bug searching/reporting/commenting hat handy?
<freckle> screen-x: i look for it now :-)
<bigcalm> freckle: sorry, I was in a client call.
<bigcalm> freckle: not expereinced a signifcent delay between word and pdf being sent to the printer. Have you tried a different pdf reader?
<freckle> aha my bad on the VPN route thing
<freckle> bigcalm: no...
<freckle> will do
<bigcalm> I use foxit
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/p7BAF.jpg
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: ^ the right window this time :)
<dwatkins> freckle: does it also take a long time to create a PDF from the same document?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: haha
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: worth a giggle
<MartijnVdS> *tardis sound*
<dwatkins> freckle: oh it's a PDF already, sorry
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nice
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/eclipse.png
<BigRedS> haha
<DJones> AlanBell: Why is there a "Tie-Fighter" floating in front of the sund :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: ISS
<Silver_Fox_> international space station
<BigRedS> yeah, I thought it was a parody of the famous iss+shuttle shot?
<DJones> Heh, After zooming, I can see that the blue blob is the tardis as well
<BigRedS> http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/iss_atlantis_transit.html
<AlanBell> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1344394/Double-eclipse-Moment-Moon-AND-International-Space-Station-cross-face-Sun.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
<cps> ergh
<cps> just investigated what could be causing the problem with my thinkpad screen
<BigRedS> Ah, there's a more recent one :)
<cps> the screen cable appears to be in fine
<cps> AlanBell: just saw your eclipse picture haha
<freckle> bigcalm: foxit was a lot faster... thanks
<cps> why does my wireless keep dropping
<cps> to make matters worse I'm on windows
 * BigRedS blames windows :)
<BigRedS> does it also drop on other hardware/OS?
<BigRedS> if other OS but not hardwre, I'd blame the hardware. If other OSs, I'd blame the router
<cps> right after I complain
<cps> it drops again
<DJones> cps: Is there another router nearby on the same channel, could be interference, try changing channels away from anything else
<cps> DJones: not as far as I am aware :/
<cps> ah ha
<cps> the laptop is suffering from the infamous "loose GPU" problem
<shauno> I got bit by that too.  thanks nvidia.
<cps> apparently it can be remedied by placing a thick sheet of paper between the keyboard and the gpu die
<cps> s/sheet/piece
<daubers> Afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings daubers
<dogmatic69> anyone into arduino stuff?
<daubers> dogmatic69: I dabble sometimes
<dogmatic69> where is the best place to buy from?
<dogmatic69> new to all the electronic stuffs
<czajkowski> http://www.realstorygroup.com/Blog/2081-The-high-cost-of-Microsoft-SharePoint?source=twitter
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: i have bought from rs components, and cool components,before.
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: was checking out rs components, they are pretty cheap also
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: yes, true,
<dogmatic69> dont know about the personalised service, being one of the biggest suppliers in the world (afaik)
<cps> hello
<cps> hopefully the loose gpu issue won't be as irritating now that there's a wad of paper in
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps
<cps> afternoonings brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon fires a spark above cps's mainboard
<screen-x> cps: where did you put the wad of paper??
<cps> screen-x: between the gpu and keyboard like http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrades/304251-ibm-thinkpad-t42-blank-screen-issue.html#post3981405 suggested
 * cps admits he should've tinyurl'd that...
<kazade> hi everybody!
<cps> a bit of googling did help 8-)
<cps> helloo kazade :)
<cps> oh go away
<cps> it's done it again
<brobostigon> :(
<screen-x> cps: this looks very scary http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=57021
<cps> yes, looks rather complicated :s
<cps> just added another thick wad of paper, hopefully the pressure will keep it down
<cps> if it still behaves I might get a quote from my local computer shop on how much it would cost for a reflow
<cps> s/behaves/behaves like it's doing right now
<cps> hmm
<cps> seems to be better
<cps> but I'm still not convinced
<davmor2> hahaha nice find mr fry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fooox6hbjzM
<Azelphur> popey, omg...they fixed the bug :o
<cps> haha!
<Azelphur> notification area now works on separate X screens
<Azelphur> after 8 years
<Azelphur> they finally fixed it :o
<cps> 8 years to fix a bug?
<cps> how?!
<Azelphur> yes
<screen-x> Azelphur: \o/
<Azelphur> I'm finding the original report, hold on xD
<cps> laptop's dun goofed
<cps> wads of paper don't appear to fix it
<Azelphur> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115704
<Azelphur> here it is :D
<Azelphur> they marked it as fixed and said try it again in the latest version of gnome and re-open if the problem persists, it got re-opened in 2006
<screen-x> cps: need to find yourself a hackspace with a heatgun and an IT thermometer..
<screen-x> errr IR thermometer..
<cps> screen-x: nah, gonna take it to the computer shop when I have the time
<screen-x> cps: sounds like a safer option :)
<sm1773r> hey there guys ( and gals ) just came across the ubuntu_uk after installing , thought i wuld come on here and say hi since i will prob need alot of help lol
<Azelphur> so yay, now I can use gnome-panel if I want to xD
<screen-x> hi sm1773r :)
<freckle> sm1773r: welcome
<sm1773r> cheers guys
<screen-x> sm1773r: come across the ubuntu uk podcast?
<sm1773r> ??? nope not seen any podcast
<screen-x> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<screen-x> is good :)
<sm1773r> k will have a gander just now , came across u lot via http://ubuntu-uk.org/
<screen-x> sm1773r: so how did you come across ubuntu, and how did the install process go?
<sm1773r> originally i tried another ubuntu that i installed on the ps3 ages ago but had nothing but bother with it for the wifi / ethernet internet so scrapped it but latelly i decided to take the plunge and go cold turkey with full install as my only OS lol
<screen-x> sm1773r: cool :)   feel free to hang around and ask question as they come up.
<sm1773r> the install process was abit of hit and miss as windows 7 didnt want to let be boot the disk so i had to delete windows install xp then install ubuntu
<sm1773r> k bit of a weird question i feel but........should i learn terminal or can i operate ubuntu well enough without it ?
<screen-x> sm1773r: not really any 'should's you can do quite a lot without learning any terminal commands
<BigRedS> sm1773r: Depends what you end up doing in Ubuntu, but you'll find that once confident a lot of things are quicker through teh command line
<BigRedS> to begin with, though, they're probably slower as you have to work out how to do things
<screen-x> You'll see forum postings, lines in here etc, and it will probably provoke curiosity..
 * cps sends an e-mail to the owner of the computer shop
<sm1773r> all i have sussed out so far is ls ~ , pwd , cd lol
<screen-x> sm1773r: it's a good start :)
<sm1773r> all down hill from here prob lol
<cps> sm1773r: I remember having to suss out terminal commands haha
<screen-x> sm1773r: my fav terminal tip is 'tab'. Hitting tab will complete a command name, or file name. Saves loads of mistakes and keystrokes.
<cps> for instance I didn't know what the $ meant :L
<sm1773r> isnt that just the end of the line ?
<screen-x> sm1773r: it is in a regex
<sm1773r> lol
<MartijnVdS> In shell it says "Here's a variable"
<MartijnVdS> $FOO
<screen-x> but in shell it is prefixed to variables eg echo $USER
<MartijnVdS> or ${FOO}
<sm1773r> k screen-x wtf have i just done i pressed tab and weird code has just appeared lol
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: always one step ahead of me :)
<screen-x> sm1773r: tab will show you possible completions for what you have already typed.
<screen-x> If you press tab on a blank line, you get a _lot_ of options...
<sm1773r> k so that is just codes that i have used in the past
<screen-x> sm1773r: try ls <tab>
<freckle> sm1773r: cmd line history is also good, just hit the up key to scroll through your previous run commands
<screen-x> that will show only commands beginning with ls
<sm1773r> btw for the pod cast can i run the ogg file ?
<sm1773r> AHHH!!!!! to much for my tiny brain lol
<freckle> sm1773r: yes, ubuntu has built in support for ogg
<screen-x> sm1773r: yeah, plenty of media players in ubuntu can play ogg
<screen-x> freckle: ^5
<freckle> screen-x: ^5
<sm1773r> lol nice 1st podcast i listen to happens to be the last lol well timed
<screen-x> sm1773r: last one for 2010...
<Azelphur> In other news does anyone know what would cause this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/Janurary%202011/Screenshot.png
<sm1773r> are they monthy podcasts ?
<Azelphur> As you can see the theme is completely messed up
<MartijnVdS> the crashing of gnome-settings-daemon
<Laney> Azelphur: anything in ~/.xsession-errors?
<Laney> gsd crashes cause that indeed
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, that's what I thought, but it's running
<Azelphur> I assume it's ok to pastebin xsession-errors?
<Laney> sure
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/fvx87kJD
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: grep for your password :)
<Azelphur> yea it's not in there ;)
<MartijnVdS> (gnome-appearance-properties:2692): Gdk-CRITICAL **: IA__gdk_display_sync: assertion `GDK_IS_DISPLAY (display)' failed
<Azelphur> It also keeps making silly clicky noises when I click on things, even though I've set my sound theme to "No sounds"
<X3N> popey / Daviey did you have any thoughts on the launchpad team issue?
<Azelphur> something must be up with gsd
<popey> X3N: i suggest you ask in #launchpad
<X3N> I've had feedback from the bug I filed
<X3N> it's just there isn't currently a solution
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's part of the theme.. try logging out and back in
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if that doesn't help, disable/enable compiz
<Azelphur> righto, brb
<popey> X3N: whats the issue?
<popey> link?
<Azelphur> relog seems to have fixed it :)
<X3N> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/700724
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 700724 in Launchpad itself "Subscription policy inherited from parent team member" [Undecided,New]
<popey> thats a bit broken
<X3N> yeah
<ormiret> bennie for taking notes I'd think you want somethign small with a resistive touch screen or something with a wacom type digitiser (though I don't know if anybody else makes them) so only the pen registers
<ormiret> sorry, that was intended for elsewhere
<popey> X3N: have thrown it at the loco council
<czajkowski> popey: LP folks are on sprint this week I suspect it's up for discussion after that
<Azelphur> anyone know of a headset that has replaceable cables and ear padding?
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<kazade> afternoon MooDoo
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ready to start the long 2 weeks
<MooDoo> czajkowski: gee thanks for reminding me ;) although i'm off thursday evening as i go to a camera club, but thanks for asking :)
<czajkowski> hey at least that means I listened to you in the first place!
 * MooDoo prods czajkowski [but only coz i love ya baby] :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i know and you've put a smile on my face :)
<sm1773r> k guys quick question , what is gnome shell and unity as it keeps getting mentioned in this podcast ?
<MooDoo> just different front ends.
<czajkowski> Can you get passport forms in your local post offices over here ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah should be able to
<czajkowski> ok thanks
<MooDoo> sm1773r: they are different front ends when you log in :)
<sm1773r> front ends ?? what as in gui
<MooDoo> sm1773r: yeah
<sm1773r> k
<MooDoo> sm1773r: this may help - http://unity.ubuntu.com/
<sm1773r> kept getting mentioned and wasnt sure what they were talking bout lol cheers for that bud
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucca, how's life
<MooDoo> davmor2: 2 weeks of 3:30 - midnight....yay o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: Sorry! ;)
<popey> sm1773r: feedback welcome about the podcast :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: nah it's fine, just a pain as i won't see family much
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh that's why your so happy about it :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: yup, then again i've got you lot all night ;)
<sm1773r> so far i am 30 mins in and it is ok so far , bit confusing at times only cause im not 100% on terms like gnome shell ect but that has been cleared up on here for me
<MooDoo> sm1773r: 30 mins in?   you mean you've been using ubuntu for 30 mins?
<sm1773r> lol no im 30 mins in on the podcast
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nothing like a bickering IRC channel to replace your bickering family right :D
<MooDoo> sm1773r: phew lol
<sm1773r> lol im bout 2 days in on ubuntu
<cps> trying out the android app inventor right now
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah that's the one.....then again 2 year olds don't bicker he just says why why why why why why no why why no no no mine mine biscuit
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you say biscuit
<screen-x> cps: looks like smalltalk in the screenshots, is it better in reality?
<screen-x> biscuits \o/
<cps> I dunno, I've only finished setting it up
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah, he loves them
<screen-x> MooDoo: everyone loves biscuits
<davmor2> MooDoo: Takes after his Dad then :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: hmmm chocalate moo cows :)
<screen-x> although daubers would argue that cake is the way forwards
<davmor2> MooDoo: see now your gonna start popey off with the words moo and cow
 * screen-x installs cowsay
<davmor2> screen-x: then daubers should be burnt at the stake for the witch he is, the cake is a lie
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll just shut up and stuff my face then
<MooDoo> davmor2: actually i won't i've got tooth ache
<cps> appinventor seems to be working ;D
<screen-x> cps: what are you inventing?
<cps> screen-x: I'm doing the HelloPurr tutorial right now
<sm1773r> is anyone running ubuntu 11.04 ?
 * popey points to AlanBell 
<screen-x> sm1773r:  You could have a go with testdrive
<sm1773r> was reading bout it there and was thinking of upgrading from 10.10 but wasnt sure as it is in alpha release
<feisar> sm1773r: what do you use the machine your going to put it on for?
<sm1773r> my main machine that i use for every day to day task
<feisar> my advice would be to only run final releases on a main desktop machine
<sm1773r> so try it in test drive like screen-x said but hold of doing a full upgrade till a final release is out
 * AlanBell wonders why he is being pointed at
<MooDoo> AlanBell: just telling people you're using 11.04
<AlanBell> oh 11.04
 * cps sends an e-mail to the guy who sold his thinkpad
<cps> s/his/the
<sm1773r> whats ur experience been with 11.04 alan
<AlanBell> I am just running it in a VM from time to time
<AlanBell> unity is starting to work
<sm1773r> but early days
<AlanBell> compiz plugins other than unity now sometimes don't crash
<bduncan> where do i get the beta daily builds? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ seems to only list the alternate cd images... is that what i want for installing a VM?
<AlanBell> bduncan: yeah, but it might not install
<AlanBell> live desktop cd is only built for the milestones
<bduncan> AlanBell: righto, can't hurt to try!
<AlanBell> alternate wasn't installable a week or two ago so I had to install maverick and upgrade
<AlanBell> indeed, give it a go and say how you get on
<bduncan> wilco
<gord> just a little advice, don't install anything labeled "alpha" on a machine you actually want to work ;)
<AlanBell> oh and use Oracle virtualbox 4
<sm1773r> lol k will install all alpha software on the wifes machine
<AlanBell> because unity is broken in anything less
<gord> unity uses a lot of advanced GL stuff, i'm surprised it runs in vb at all to be honest - can't guarantee that it will work in vb on release
<bigcalm> Anybody want 2 free grazeboxes?
<bduncan> really? i was going to be using qemu-kvm...
<gord> in qemu you'll only get the classic desktop, which is fine if you just want to test ubuntu as a whole
<AlanBell> gord: works a treat in virtualbox 4
<bduncan> yeah that'll do...
 * daubers reads thruogh the legalease for some colo stuff
<sm1773r> podcast has finally finished , was ok bar one part
<bigcalm> Gerrald?
<sm1773r> ?
<bigcalm> Hehe, ignore me :)
<popey> sm1773r: which bit?
<sm1773r> the bit when they started doin jack and the bean stock confused the hell out of me , i understand wheat they were doing with it but dragged on abit tbh
<bigcalm> I liked the cow the best
<popey> :)
<screen-x> sm1773r: it was a Christmas pantomime littered with tech jokes :)
<popey> I appreciate the feedback sm1773r, thank you!
<sm1773r> lol yea thats why i sort of understood why it was there
<sm1773r> overall was a good podcast and look forward to the new ones starting
<sm1773r> when does the new ones start
<sm1773r> also anyone on here have a blackberry and are able to have it paired with ubuntu
<popey> not sure, we'll probably start in feb/march
<popey> sm1773r: we have a separate channel for the podcast - #ubuntu-uk-podcast - we'll probably talk about it there, and on twitter.com/uupc
<sm1773r> k ta popey
<shauno> am I allowed to admit I liked lugradio betterer?  *duck*
<davmor2> shauno: NO! ;)
<shauno> ow.  will return to thumb twiddling then
<daubers> Someone mentioned cake?
<davmor2> daubers: yes we said the cake is a lie, biscuits FTW
<gord> lp:magicicada is my new favourite thing ever
<BigRedS> Does middle-click paste work in OSX?
<BigRedS> I've just realised a bunch of my instructions might not work...
<screen-x> BigRedS: not tried a 3 button mouse on osx
<daubers> Biscuits ftl, cake ftw \o/
<shauno> good question actually.  haven't tried.  suspect it'll work as expected in X11, and nothing else
<daubers> screen-x: Defo heading to wales that weekend now! Booked the hotel and everythong
<daubers> s/everythong/everything
<gord> czajkowski, someone brought pg tips \o/
<czajkowski> gord: yay
<czajkowski> gord: will unity natty run nicely on a mini 9 ?
<davmor2> gord: you little monkey ;)
 * czajkowski prods davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: works on my compaq mini  110  so should
<czajkowski> davmor2: ok so if it breaks I'm going to come hunting you
<davmor2> czajkowski: I didn't say install it :P
 * czajkowski peers at davmor2 
<MooDoo> davmor2: need a stunt double?
<davmor2> czajkowski: infact for now I wouldn't, there is an update for bcmwl (wireless) that is a bit meh, so I'll try upgrading it now for you and let you know if it works now, I don't mind reinstalling it :)
<czajkowski> ahh I finally found a use for you!
<czajkowski> my upgrade demo dudeo
<czajkowski> dude
<BigRedS> screen-x: apparently not
<BigRedS> but I'd forgotten about the habit of not having three buttons on a mac anyway
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh that's right take advatage why don't you
<czajkowski> MooDoo: please you'd do the same!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: meh!
<popey> uhm
<popey> czajkowski / davmor2 isnt the mini 9 a poulsbo GMA 500 device?
<popey> if so, wont unity fail badly?
 * DJones hopes this is the beginning of a new "caring & sharing" relationship between davmor2 & czajkowski 
<MooDoo> DJones: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
<czajkowski> popey: this is my fear...
<DJones> MooDoo: It was worth hoping for :)
<popey> czajkowski: lspci
<czajkowski> DJones: don't be daft!
<davmor2> popey: I thought the mini 9 was the same spec as the mini 110
<popey> one of them is poulsbo and I can never remember which one
<davmor2> DJones: You need your head sorting mate, I know she needs the netbook hence I don't want to see the tech die :D
<davmor2> I care about the tech
<czajkowski> paste.ubuntu.com/552523/
<shauno> ugh.  looks like I'm being pressed into playing tour guide again.  not sure I can stomach another trip to edinburgh castle
<davmor2> popey: see intel 645 same as mine
<davmor2> 945 even
<Laney> "castle is there, I will be in this pub when you are done"
<brobostigon> Laney: :)
<davmor2> Laney: what the hell, you playing pub chess?
<daubers> shauno: It is quite close to the whiskey experience place though
<shauno> never actually done that one.  usually end up in the halfway house
<czajkowski> odd question on twitter, is my (ubuntu) machines bios Free software
<shauno> raking my brains trying to think of an alternative that doesn't involve driving tho
<shauno> bios rarely is.  altho it's possible
<AlanBell> czajkowski: no, unless you have an OLPC with openfirmware
<czajkowski> still an odd one
<AlanBell> more of an identi.ca question than a twitter one :)
<shauno> it's a good sign that someone's thinking too much :)
<gord> czajkowski, mini 9 has the same hardware as my mini10v where unity runs great :)
<czajkowski> shauno: sign it's  a student and near exam time
<czajkowski> gord: ok if not same thing applies shall come and poke you in person
<BigRedS> czajkowski: Nah, it comes up relatively frequently in discussions about proprietary vs free drivers. Along the lines of "Why care so much about the freeness of your gpu access when the bios is so closed"
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> BigRedS: never heard it put like that ..
<czajkowski> though it does make sense when you lay it out like that
<davmor2> czajkowski: bcmwl is now fixed
<BigRedS> czajkowski: Ah, we have these discissions approximately weekly at work... The usual retort is that graphics drivers are waaaaaaay more buggy than bioses
<czajkowski> quick reminder I know tis ages away... but still http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
<czajkowski> no we have that what os are you running, being the only Ubunut in the office it's fun :)
<shauno> it's kinda interesting with regards to a few distros trying to strip out every non-free blob they can get their hands on.  yet the very first thing the machine hits is a non-free blob
<czajkowski> rest o are debian, kde and slackware
<gord> rugby is that thing where a bunch of guys have a big fight about that egg right?
<BigRedS> czajkowski: Ah, we all have to run Ubuntu here :)
<MooDoo> gord: no it's when english men get to pound on irish men and win :)
 * MooDoo runs and ducks for cover
<czajkowski> BigRedS: you can run what ever os you like in my place, though nobody has selected MS
 * MooDoo is at work using Fedora :p
<BigRedS> Yeah, I don't think many of us would pick ubuntu as a first choice, but everyone's linuxy of one flavour or another
<BigRedS> we do have a box running hurd, though
<balor> popey: Do you guys have a .org table at http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/ ?
 * popey points balor at AlanBell 
<balor> AlanBell: Do you guys have a .org table at http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/ ?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: the wway I look at it I'm rather fortunate to have a boss/company that lets you decide your own OS
<czajkowski> I'm rather pleased about this, seeing as before I had to use windows
<MooDoo> czajkowski: once you get off first level here, you can use your own os
<shauno> I'm stuck on XP, but we do have a lot of VMs floating around
<jacobw> XP feels dated nowadays
<BigRedS> czajkowski: yeah. I'm quite fortunate to find one that wants me to run *almost* whatever I like :)
<BigRedS> Though at my last job, doing Windows support, I was using Debian on my desktop, and RDPing to a windows server for Outlook
<shauno> feels dated?  it's 10 years old later this year
<shauno> don't that make you feel old.
<BigRedS> Same-ish age as OSX, though :)
 * jacobw remembers the see through monitors of the original iMac
<AlanBell> balor: yes we do
<AlanBell> balor: meeting in 3 hours in #ubuntu-uk-meeting to discuss what we are going to do with it
<balor> AlanBell: Good.  Do you know any other groups going?
<AlanBell> not offhand, no
<AlanBell> but I believe there are additional slots available
<czajkowski> balor: you going ?
<balor> czajkowski: I'm getting the gnome-uk contingent together.  We;re wondering if there's  a critical mass though.  I assume debian-uk will go.
 * balor is sad that he doesn't get to compare beer bellies with Popey this year
<czajkowski> balor: you will if you come to the rugby meet up!
<czajkowski> balor: you fosdem bound this year?
<balor> czajkowski: have never been.  And I can't go this year....too many children
<czajkowski> *grin*
<czajkowski> balor: how is the new edition ?
<amarcolino> hi evening ive got my thomson TG585 router in bridge mode which allows me to use my static ips, however, by doing that I lose wireless function, is their a way to keep it in bridge mode and still allow one of the machines to use wireless?
<balor> czajkowski: small and cute.  She's helping me type right now
<balor> czajkowski: but I also have the dinner on, so must go
<czajkowski> balor: have fun
<daubers> Has anyone implimented an OpenVPN .... vpn?
<shauno> I have done, but not recently, and not still using it
<daubers> I need to build one at work and it looks a bit of a nightmare. Wondering whether it's worthwhile gettings the Beginning OpenVPN book
<popey> i found it fairly easy
<shauno> I don't recall it being that much hassle, but I wasn't doing anything messy
<daubers> popey: With multiple clients connecting?
<popey> yeah
<popey> basically followed some online guide thingy
<popey> was some time ago
<daubers> Hmmm.... might just be me being panicy then
<shauno> have you given it a shot yet?
<directhex> has anyone implemented ... an ERP solution?
<bigcalm> Maybe there'll be a webmin plugin for it ;)
 * popey points directhex at AlanBell 
<daubers> shauno: Not yet. Built the VM for it the other day and built the hardware it's going into this morning :) RAID was stil building when I left
<popey> !info openerp-server
<lubotu3> openerp-server (source: openerp-server): Enterprise Resource Management (server). In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.14-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 10385 kB, installed size 99912 kB
<bigcalm> Read that as "open derp"
<bigcalm> :S
<shauno> herp.
<directhex> popey, yeah, we've evaluated openerp. it's a bit... um... poop
<popey> I went through a lot of options for a customer, openerp came out on top
<popey> for their requirements
<shauno> daubers: I'd just dive in.  if I can find my way thru with liberal googling, it can't be as bad as it looks
<shauno> measure twice, cut once, make a snapshot of your VM before you start.  then dive in :)
<daubers> heh
<AlanBell> hi directhex
<AlanBell> I am going on an OpenERP dev training course next week
<directhex> in belgium?
<AlanBell> yes
 * directhex knows all :o
<davmor2> man that sucks banshee will only stream music from last.fm if you have subscribed
<directhex> davmor2, there are two last.fm apis, only the deprecated going-to-remove-it-any-day-now api allows free streaming
<hamitron> :/
<davmor2> that sucks
<AlanBell> directhex: there are others like openbravo and adempiere
<directhex> AlanBell, yeah, they're on my to-evaluate list
<AlanBell> all depends on whether you want a big java thingumy or want to take a punt on Python
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeap but do they have plugins?
<AlanBell> davmor2: I did an openbravo theme once
<AlanBell> not sure how pluggable the rest of it is
<davmor2> I'll just go back to internet radio I think :)
<directhex> all the non-joke ones are java, barring openerp
<directhex> compiere is even oracle-dependent as standard Â¬_Â¬
<AlanBell> directhex: oh, you looked at GNUe then
<directhex> AlanBell, put it in the "joke" pile
<AlanBell> yup
<davmor2> AlanBell: so talking at cross purposes I was thinking you were talking of alternatives to last.fm
<directhex> does adempiere do last.fm streaming? :o
 * AlanBell wonders about a last.fm openERP plugin. Should be doable
<_H> I found out today I have an iq of 149
<_H> :)
<hamitron> is that good?
<_H> mesa demand 110
<_H> mensa*
<MartijnVdS> libmesa?
<_H> uk mensa
<hamitron> well, guess I'm not clever enough to know any of this or what it means :/
<hamitron> but congrats
<hamitron> :)
<_H> thanks
<_H> it means I am in the top 2.98% of the population
<hamitron> that figure means more to me
<hamitron> :)
<cps> yey
<directhex> IQ is a normal distribution about 100, with a standard deviation of 15
<cps> my thinkpad's gonna be swapped with another one in a few days :)
<_H> but am really badly dyslexic
<brobostigon> cps: thats good, :)
<hamitron> directhex: does that mean it is a moving target?
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> hamitron, yes.
<cps> brobostigon: :)
<directhex> 149 means top 0.06% of population
<_H> oh
<_H> I feel better now
<_H> :)
<directhex> so about 40k people in the UK are as smart or smarter
<hamitron> so if someone battered enough peoples heads in to give them brain damage... their IQ would rise
 * cps thinks he's dumb :(
<cps> autism sucks for many people
<cps> :(
<directhex> there are a lot of high iq societies. mensa's requirement is top 2%
<directhex> cps, many autistic disorders don't actually cause issues in standard verbal reasoning tests
<directhex> but that form of test doesn't really work past teenage
<_H> I don't have autism
<_H> just dyslexia
<directhex> you're too stupid to join the Prometheus Society :)
<_H> YAY I like being stupid
<_H> :)
<_H> it makes me normal
<brobostigon> directhex: do you need an Iq inthe thousands for that society?
<directhex> brobostigon, 160.
<MartijnVdS> Âµ
<directhex> _H, good. that's a healthy attitude
<brobostigon> directhex: thats pretty high,
<directhex> _H, forgetting my IQ was one of the best things i ever did
<MartijnVdS> directhex: problem with those "high IQ societies" is that they sometimes promote arrogance, imho
<directhex> MartijnVdS, precisely
<brobostigon> agreed MartijnVdS
<hamitron> isn't it better to just see what you can do? rather than worry about numbers :/
<directhex> hamitron, also precisely
<directhex> IQ is not the measure of a (wo)man
<directhex> i only got a 2:2 on my degree
<directhex> but i'm awesome!
<hamitron> same :)
<hamitron> I could drink the most beer on my course...
<maco> directhex: i also got a 2:2 if i understand how these british namings work
 * MartijnVdS dropped out after the first year of uni
<MartijnVdS> does that count? :)
<directhex> maco, there are five classes of degree. first-class honours, upper second class, lower second class, third class, and ordinary (no honours)
<hamitron> you may of learnt more than someone who cheated their way through MartijnVdS :)
<maco> directhex: i saw a US GPA --> UK conversion thing once
<hamitron> all this talk of paperwork is depressing :/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I learned Linux in the basement instead ;)
<shauno> best way to do it imo :)
<hamitron> I think learning from different angles each has their own advantage
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> 10mbit coax (ethernet) internet connection
<MartijnVdS> burning CDs straight from the cdrom.com NFS share
<MartijnVdS> those were the days
<shauno> lucky bugger.  I bought mine from mr winters because dialup and debian don't mix
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think you'll find the days were on floppys
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yes, normal people installed debian from 20 floppys
<MartijnVdS> but if you had access to 10 whole megabits.. why not download an iso?!
<shauno> I did slackware from floppies. with two drives because I didn't have enough ram for the installer's ramdisk.  highly overrated.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I still got the boxed version of suse 6.3 floppy boot disc and then cds and a book and 30 days of support
<hamitron> you used the 30 days of support yet? ;/
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I started on slackware, but I broke it when libc6 came around (I think I could fix it now .. :))
<jacobw> you've still got the 30 days of support? are you a timelord?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: then tried a few distro's, stuck with Debian
<jacobw> ++debian
<hamitron> ++slackware
<davmor2> jacobw: Nope never activated the 30days
<hamitron> actually, no ++anything atm
<hamitron> :/
<jacobw> ++nothing :(
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: activate them now :)
<davmor2> No I wouldn't want to make them cry
<hamitron> I honestly can't decide on anything to do with OS atm
<MartijnVdS> not even tears of joy?
<hamitron> :D
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: go outside! go for a run! then decide :)
<hamitron> tempted to try centos
<hamitron> ;)
<davmor2> hamitron: how about say something nice or we take all your electronic devices?
<hamitron> but then I found I need to change the kernel and that is all effort
<hamitron> haha
<jacobw> don't bother, serious, its pointlesss
<hamitron> ubuntu is the best so far...
 * hamitron cleans his brown nose
<davmor2> yay! stop hiring the van guys
<hamitron> there is a LTS Puppy Linux now
<hamitron> well, sort of
<hamitron> ;/
<MartijnVdS> I have a Corel Linux CD here
<hamitron> it is either LTS Puppy, Ubuntu with custom X.org or CentOS with custom kernel
<hamitron> \o/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: LFS
<hamitron> BLFS does actually use X.Org 7.2
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I did have but I gave it to a friend, the boxed version with corel word perfect and somthing else if memory serves
<hamitron> so I could live with it
<MartijnVdS> LFS is whatever you compile yourself, isn't it?
<hamitron> it is
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I got an entire box of Corel Linux CDs at some trade show
<hamitron> but easier to follow the docs as near as possible
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> LFS is (or was, last I tried) a great way to get a tiny footprint.  I had mine down to just under 40Mb
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: then you'd never learn
<hamitron> max X.org is 7.3 I can use anyway
<MartijnVdS> why
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: It was far easier than suse it went on to become something else though right
<hamitron> nvidia's fault
<andylockran> is the ubuntu-uk planet bust?
<hamitron> ;/
<jacobw> andylockran: I think so
<hamitron> I'm guessing ubuntu 12.04 will be i686 and higher
<andylockran> will let Daviey know.. and maybe popey ?
<andylockran> *me hopes that last line will have just pinged them, not sure what the protocol is//
<andylockran> http://zrmt.com/images/petrolprices.png
<jacobw> andylockran: I expect its all popey's fault ;)
<andylockran> #blamepopey
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it usually is
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: what happens if you include the oil crisis of the early 70s?
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: and/or adjust for inflation
<andylockran> MartijnVdS: http://zrmt.com/article/view/petrol-prices
<andylockran> look at my workings..
<hamitron> would it be hard to make a PPA for an old version of X.org?
<hamitron> or wise ;/
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: I know early 70s records are of crap quality because they had to "save oil"
<X3N> andylockran: it's just being very slow (planet ubuntu-uk)
<andylockran> X3N: not updated since 24th Dec?
<X3N> oh
<X3N> good spot
<andylockran> no worries
<X3N> uh oh
 * X3N spy nano feedparser.py in the bash history
 * popey fixes planet
<popey> X3N: its not
<andylockran> :p
<popey> its http://www.kryogenix.org/days/?p=1738 breaking the planet
<X3N> tsk
<davmor2> popey: you might guess it's aq
<popey> bah mjg59 also has duff
<popey> wonder whats changed in the feedparser
 * popey pokes Daviey 
<X3N> I didn't edit it, but there is a parse error now with one of the feeds
<popey> yes, I am looking at it now X3N
<popey> running it manually
<popey> it looks like a db error
<X3N> might be worth running a diff on the feedparser to see what's changed, or we could just make Daviey fix it
<popey> moved the cache out the way, better
<popey> i dont think its the feedparser
<popey> the cache was borked
<MartijnVdS> aww, and you were about to blame aq ;)
<popey> i have uncommented the feeds I commented out and moved the cache out the way, now its chugging along fine
<X3N> good good
<X3N> I'll just blame python for being so fragile then
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: why not it's aq
<popey> i blame the db
<popey> I also note that there's a lot of 404 and 500s on peoples blogs
<popey> I might clear them all out
 * MartijnVdS upgrades his SLS AMG '10
<X3N> good idea
<popey> will backup config then clean out any that give 404 or 500 then refresh the wiki with current config
<X3N> -> pub
<popey> o/
<popey> http://planet.ubuntu-uk.org/
<popey> better?
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<brobostigon> yes plese X3N :)
<jenkins> anyone got any recommendations for shared hosting companies that they have found are good?
<MartijnVdS> vps?
<jenkins> it si for a scout group, i think a vps is out of the budget
<MartijnVdS> well you can get cheap vpses
<MartijnVdS> but it adds an admin nightmare you might not want
<brobostigon> bytemark always seems tobe spoken well about,
<jenkins> the easier the better to be honest as I have to manage it at uni and I am learning as i go
<MartijnVdS> bitfolk :)
<MartijnVdS> but they seem to do vpses only
<jenkins> yea I looked at bitfolk but like you say vps only, I have been recommended http://www.5quidhost.co.uk/ by another leader but they seam a bit too cheap
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: I have a VPS at Bytemark, but they also do "normal" shared webhosting
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: and they're nice people too :)
<jenkins> just having a look on theri site thanks MartijnVdS
<daubers> jenkins: Don't forget to have a look at Bitfolk too
<jenkins> yea they are about Â£89 a year, that is my first choice as far as vps go
<daubers> jenkins: Andy at bitfolk is a lovely chap
<jenkins> yea its not me who need convincing the rest of the group can't decide if we can justify the cost
<jenkins> MartijnVdS: I can't find shared hosting on bytemark, may be i am being silly do you have a link for pricing?
<MartijnVdS> Â£9 is hardly expensive
<jenkins> I know but for a charity with 60 ish people in our group is it worth it is the question?
<MartijnVdS> can't find the hosting bits
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<davmor2> jenkins: big ron in our lug runs a few scout sites from http://intermip.net/
<jenkins> thanks davmor2
<popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/01/10/ubuntu-uk-planet-cleanup/
<popey> done
<andylockran> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: brilliant! (notepad :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Petrol Prices - http://zrmt.com/article/view/petrol-prices
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Pete Ryland] Loop The Loop - http://pdr.cx/~pdr/blog/geekstuff/looptheloop_solver.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Pete Ryland] An Evening with William Gibson - http://pdr.cx/~pdr/blog/geekstuff/gibson.html
<popey> MartijnVdS: mental!
<hamitron> ouuu
<hamitron> buyvm have stock again
<jacobw> boo
<MooDoo> arrrrggghhhh
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Ubuntu UK Planet Cleanup - http://popey.com/blog/2011/01/10/ubuntu-uk-planet-cleanup/
<andylock1an> hey guys
<bigcalm> My routing with Virgin Media seems to be -> Wolverhampton -> Manchester -> Guildford -> whereever
<andylock1an> my network has just got v.v.v slow?
<andylock1an> is there some issue?
<andylock1an> ping andylockran/
<andylock1an> anyone home?
<bigcalm> They are taking down the internets!
<andylock1an> who is?
<bigcalm> Save your tubes!
<andylock1an> ?
<bigcalm> andylock1an: goat people
<bigcalm> I have no idea. Just being weird :)
<bigcalm> I'm developing on my internal network, so not looking further afield much atm
<andylock1an> hmm, just come back
<shauno> mine just took a nosedive too :/
<andylock1an> shauno: who you with?\
<hamitron> mine has been rock bottom all day, since I am over my download limit ;)
<shauno> vps via bitfolk atm  (home seemed fine, but everything to my vps dropped)
<hamitron> :/
<andylock1an> shauno: I have a horrible feeling that was my fault..
<shauno> it's back now, but wouldn't respond to pings for a minute or two
<andylock1an> yeah, mine is good
<popey> bah
<shauno> well, whatever you did .. don't :)
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<bigcalm> I've had enough of being in my office. Off to code on the laptop!
<daubers> I love virt-manager
<bigcalm> What did I miss?
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<bigcalm> Humm
<MartijnVdS> !bot
<lubotu3> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-uk's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<AlanBell> meeting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
 * AlanBell points balor at #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<Laney> popey: you should remove me from planet u-uk too
<Laney> for now
<popey> Laney: done
<popey> thanks for letting me know
<Laney> ty
<Laney> I think I got hit by the recent security hole
<Laney> will just use my tumblr in future
<AlanBell> meeting about to start in #ubuntu-uk-meeting, agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda everyone is welcome to join
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday January 27th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<j0nr> hey folks.... fresh install of 8,04 server ed. and newaliases doesnt work. gets this error: postalias: fatal: open database /etc/aliases.db: Permission denied
<AlanBell> 8.04 O.o
<AlanBell> Hardy
<j0nr> yeah, its the latest LTS my VPS provider offers... gunna stick with LTS until they get an image of 10,04
<j0nr> anyway, problem sorted, as always, a perms issue
<eviljames> any folks here particularly good with raid/lvm ?
<eviljames> justask: hahah not much yet.  I came across a guide that said I need to make changes in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules - but it seemed to me that it was outdated and that this should be taken care of in a more automatic fashion.
<eviljames> edrr, wrong win
<eviljames> Attempting to run ubuntu 10.10 from my lvm root, initramfs is apparently misbehaving.  Refuses to boot, drpos me at the busybox/initramfs prompt.  From that prompt I can modprobe dm_mod ; vgscan ; vgchange -ay, and then mount root, but I don't know why this isn't happening automatically by the initramfs.  Anyone know much about this initramfs / lvm / raid / ubuntu combination?
<eviljames> Theeere we go.
<screen-x> Any ideas why libvirtd wouldnt be able to execute qemu? "libvirtd: 22:28:05.258: error : __virExec:568 : cannot execute binary /usr/bin/qemu-system-x86_64: Operation not permitted"
<screen-x> eviljames: have you tried update-initramfs?
<j0nr> moving to a new server, I have setup my mail server stuff... but can i just copy my Maildir in its entirety over to new server?
<brobostigon> wth, its taking several minutes to load the google homepage,something is going on.
<andylockran> yeah, LINX may be playing up brobostigon
<eviljames> screen-x: Yeah, I have several times :D
<brobostigon> andylockran: LINX ?
<andylockran> Londer Internet Exchange
<andylockran> https://www.linx.net/
<eviljames> screen-x: What I've found is that each time I get to the same place, as mentioned above.
<eviljames> I didn't realize that ubuntu ran at rl5 - so even after I got /dev/chimeravg/ustudioroot mounted to /root I couldn't use /init :P
<brobostigon> i just found aninteresting job advert, head of R&D manegement for a coffee company based here in banbury.
<hamitron> staff discount?
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> hamitron: no idea, :)
<hamitron> I think I may fail any interview, when that is the only question I can think of :/
<brobostigon> if i had an interview with maplins, iwould be very tempted to ask that question.
<gord> wonder if P.G. Tips get monkeys to interview you...
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> just ask on the phone "will I recognise any of the monkeys that interview me?"
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> man, wish jobs were not so valuable atm
<hamitron> could take a risk like that
<hamitron> :D
<brobostigon> i was annoyed the other day, i needed a couple of potentiometers, so went up to maplins, asked for some linear potentiometers, and the chap behind the esk had no idea what i was asking for. so dissapponting,
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> how much of the mini ones there?
<hamitron> s/of/are
<brobostigon> hamitron: do you meanthe cost?
<hamitron> yeh
<brobostigon> hamitron: a tenner, roughtly.
<hamitron> wtf
<hamitron> for 1?
<brobostigon> hamitron: that was for 2.
<hamitron> I was hoping Â£1.50 each
<hamitron> :/
<brobostigon> hamitron: i fear that might be difficult, iwould probebly look online withsomeone like "rs components"
<hamitron> just looked
<hamitron> Â£0.99
<brobostigon> wow, ok.:)
<brobostigon> what kind?
<hamitron> from maplin
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=Potentiometer
<brobostigon> hamitron: i just looked at my spreadsheet, atthe tenner included travel, so it was much less.
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> I nearly had heart failure
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> need a few bits like that for repairs
<eviljames> Neither of you fine chaps know anything about raid/lvm/initramfs/ubuntu, eh?
<eviljames> o/ greetings from Canada :D
<brobostigon> eviljames: sorry, myself no, :(
<hamitron> I am probably one of the worst people to ask on such things
<hamitron> :/
<gord> vim + terminator + unity maximus sure does make for a nice coding environment :)
<screen-x> eviljames: long shot: have you got your arrays defined in mdadm.conf?
<eviljames> hrm.
<eviljames> screen-x: that's not that long of a shot... sec
<brobostigon> hamitron: last thing ibought was one of, http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=317-780&x=0&y=0 , however my dd did pay for two,for one of his projects,
<brobostigon> dad*
<eviljames> screen-x: Looks like it is, ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid0 num-devices=2 UUID=893fdbff:6398a2fd:2812f1a8:0ff69971
<screen-x> looks good, if not a little risky ;-)
<eviljames> a little risky?
<eviljames> oh raid0
<screen-x> yeah
<eviljames> heh, yeah, this is my root array
<hamitron> I just need a few volume controls for amps, and some caps for a motherboard
<brobostigon> hamitron: rs components is probebly a good bet.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] ipv6 enabled. - http://ipv6.zrmt.com/article/view/ipv6-enabled.
<eviljames> screen-x: seems to me that initramfs is the pain point.
<hamitron> brobostigon: will take a look, it is hard for me now I don't have access to a store room at uni
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> hamitron: :)
<popey> right, off to bed
<dutchie> night popey
<screen-x> sleep well :)
 * popey says eviljames should put /boot on non-LVM RAID, then sleeps
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<eviljames> popey: Thanks, but that's already done too :D
<eviljames> In my case, /boot is its own ext2 off of the LVM
<screen-x> eviljames: is your fstab correct?
<eviljames> seems to be...
<eviljames> /dev/mapper/chimeravg-ustudioroot /               ext4    errors=remount-ro 0       1
<screen-x> eviljames: looks ok.
<eviljames> Indeed, look alright to me too.
<screen-x> eviljames: when you boot up, and manually scan for lvm PVs, does boot continue as normal if you exit the initramfs shell?
<eviljames> o
<eviljames> m
<eviljames> g
<eviljames> Of all the damn things I tried, I didn't try 'exit'
<screen-x> heh
<eviljames> I _did_ manage to use lvm to scan for PV/LV, and get them mounted even.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-11
<sm1773r> evening all
<eviljames> Isn't it really early morning in the UK by now?
<sm1773r> lol well if u want to be precise 12:07am all
<eviljames> heh
<eviljames> *shrug* I'm on the other side of the planet, so for me it's not even time to go home from work yet :(
<screen-x> yes, very early in the morning here :(
<sm1773r> lol unlucky bud how long u got left
<sm1773r> god u been on here all day screen
<eviljames> just an hour... figure I'll spend it on irc trying to sort out the same single, stupid, issue that I've been stumbling on for the last few days...
<screen-x> sm1773r: yeah, I should be in bed!
<sm1773r> but ur gripped by the intence convo on irc
<screen-x> nah, working, but enjoying the distraction of irc :)
<sm1773r> its been a long distraction lol
<screen-x> sm1773r: I keep 1/2 and eye on irc whilst working..
<screen-x> err 1/2 an eye
<sm1773r> lol
<screen-x> MooDoo: still up?
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Hello
<shannon> hi
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Hey cinex
<cinex> whats new?
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Just after some help, but it seems dead in here >.>
<cinex> what do u need to know?
 * screen-x is alsmost awake
<Alice-In-Wonderl> If there was a way to install ubuntu from a NTFS external hardrive
<cinex> i think so
<cinex> you can install it from a usb drive
<screen-x> or use wubi from windows
<Alice-In-Wonderl> I know, but it needs FAT32, I think
<cinex> hmm
<screen-x> or partition the external hdd, have an ubuntu installer partition, and a separate ntfs partition for data
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Ah, I never thought of that! I'll give that a go, screen-x, thank you
<cinex> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1452130
<cinex> beats me
 * cinex doesnt have anything windows anymore
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Humm, well thanks anyway, i'll try partitioning it as FAT32 and see if that works...
<cinex> do u not have the hardwear to burn a cd?
<Alice-In-Wonderl> I used to have ubuntu, but I brought a new laptop and was so busy with college work etc I never got round to re-installing it
<Alice-In-Wonderl> I do, but no discs
<cinex> or perhaps, virtually mount the image inside windows and use the install it inside windows option ?
<cinex> i dont know the name of it. but you can run the installer as a windows app
<screen-x> wubi
<cinex> wubi
<screen-x> ^5
<Alice-In-Wonderl> I'll try both ^-^
<cinex> if you plan on running it permanently you should either get a usb drive or rewriteable disk
<cinex> it has a fairly quick update cycle
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Exactly the reason I wanted to use my external hardrive....
<cinex> the thumbnail would be better in my mind. then u can use it like a key to decrypt all your stuff too :)
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Sorry?
<screen-x> cinex: do you mean usb stick/thumb drive?
<cinex> lol, thumbnail
<cinex> yeah i meant thumb drive
<Alice-In-Wonderl> I have a laptop external hardrive, it's basically a USB stick with 320gb of storage xD
<cinex> push it in, and linux can mount it, get the key, decrypt everything then unmount it. then when you pull it out. re-encrypt everything
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Yea
<cinex> it shocks me how easy that is to set up. and how the government can't be bothered
<Alice-In-Wonderl> What do you mean? Setting up ubuntu?
<cinex> configuring it.
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Ah, well they'd rather buy windows and watch it burn and die >.>
<cinex> in this case, each drive has a unique id. you can get linux to execute commands when it sees that number.
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Right...
<cinex> ie, when you put a thumdrive in
<Alice-In-Wonderl> Yea...
<screen-x> cinex: sounds like you're on a udev high ;-)
<Alice-In-Wonderl> (this is kind of new to me >.<)
<cinex> yeah. my father in law wants a cctv server. so i was planning it out. I would have a 'key' to switch on the indoor cameras eh
<cinex> so u could easily turn them on before you went out.
<screen-x> cinex: you could do it by tracking the bluetooth/wifi addresses of the family phones..
<cinex> thats interesting
<screen-x> cinex: are you going to use zone minder?
<cinex> i was looking at motion
<screen-x> !info motion
<lubotu3> motion (source: motion): V4L capture program supporting motion detection. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.12-2 (maverick), package size 284 kB, installed size 868 kB
<screen-x> hmm have a look at zone minder :)
<cinex> it has all the options the $1000 cameras have
<cinex> i will
<cinex> the only real problem is that to get a wifi/network camera means having all those functions built into the camera
<cinex> I don't know how secure it is to have the whole setup outside ready to be stolen. it would possibly have images all dateed and timestamped of them leaving the house. let them predict when the house will be empty
<screen-x> cinex: outside?
<cinex> with a central server it could all be encrypted. so if it did get stolen then there would be no useful information on it
<cinex> a camera pointing at the car kind of thing
<cinex> which would always be on.
<screen-x> cinex: yeah, centralised is the way to go.
<screen-x> Could store the most recent data off site (depending on how much bandwidth is available..)
<cinex> they have ftp servers built in.
<screen-x> which cameras are you looking at?
<cinex> webservers built in. they can link up 16 or so cameras together so you can remote view them all
<cinex> ip cameras
<screen-x> any models in particular?
<screen-x> I'm interested because I'd like some, but cant afford axis!
<cinex> no. there is a panasonic (I think) that is reasonably cheap.
<cinex> I'm in canada so the prices might be higher over there (always are)
<cinex> http://www.ipcamerasupply.com/panasonic-bl-c140a
<screen-x> these also seem to be quite cheap http://www.edimax.co.uk/en/produce_list.php?pl1_id=8&pl2_id=
<screen-x> $35! awesome
<screen-x> oh, thats the warranty
 * screen-x resizes browser
<cinex> with tax that would be around $200 which is about 140 - 160 quid
<screen-x> Thats not bad for one that will withstand some weather
<cinex> heat and motion detectors
<screen-x> cinex: so did you used to live in the UK, then move over to Canada?
<cinex> yeah. moved here 4 months ago
<screen-x> How are you finding the transition?
<cinex> its good.
 * screen-x is nosy     ._.
<cinex> I have a good job already. its temporary at the monment. but they are looking to actually hire people. so i get a pyarise after 3 months. taken on at six.
<cinex> will be on like 15 pound an hour in 12 months lol
<screen-x> sounds good :)
<cinex> beats 5.80 and a company that treats you like crap
<screen-x> are you near plenty of lakes and mountains for days off?
<cinex> im on , what, 6 pounds and hour, and i feel twice as rich
<cinex> god no. I live on lake ontario, overpupulated and full of smog
<cinex> really bad pulution.
<screen-x> :( shame
<cinex> i will move out of the city eventually
<cinex> something like 60% of all candians live around this lake
<screen-x>  I may have to move up to London, which wont be good for the lungs!
<cinex> oh no. 20% of canadas population and 53% of onatarios
<cinex> move to canada, its awesome
<screen-x> So what made you pick canada when wnating to escape the UK?
<hamitron> upto London?
<screen-x> hamitron: London is "up" from everywhere ;-)
<cinex> my wife is candian, (met her online) and nowhere is as bad as the uk lol
<screen-x> haha
<hamitron> sure ;/
<cinex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HamiltonOntarioSkylineC.JPG
<cinex> you can see my apartment building on there
<screen-x> nice and green
<screen-x> is there much sailing on the lake?
<cinex> in the summer yeah
<cinex> its massive
<cinex> has waves and a beach and everything
<screen-x> not big enough to surf though?
<cinex> NOOO
<cinex> fraid not
<screen-x> heh, cant have everything ;-)
<cinex> people charge into it on new years day i think
<cinex> polar run
<cinex> polar plunge
<cinex> polar something
<fujisano> Hello, good morning is anyone awake?
<fujisano> I have a question my internet stopped working on ubuntu 10.10 i wanted to have get some ideas about how to solve it please
<BigRedS> I'm about
<BigRedS> Though I am technically fixing, er, someone else's networking not working :)
<fujisano> well its a wired ethernet cable
<fujisano> the cable has worked for 6 years and now all of a sudden its not working i am hoping its not the network card but dunno how to test this
<BigRedS> when you say 'its not working', what exactly is happening?
<fujisano> i have no internet with the ethernet cable plugged in
<BigRedS> How comfortable are you in the terminal?
<fujisano> i can see it says disconnected when i hoover over the network symbol
<BigRedS> ahh
<fujisano> on ubuntu
<fujisano> comfortable enough i suppose
<BigRedS> Ah, handy. I'm not very comfortable out of it :)
<BigRedS> Just a quick check - has this problem survived a reboot?
<fujisano> i havent checked that yet let me check that first
<BigRedS> if it's easy, that's a way to restart everything I'm about to have you test :)
<BigRedS> if you'd rather not reboot, it's not really necessary,
<BigRedS> though I'm about to be tied up for ~5-10 mins, so perhaps it's something to do in the meantime...
<fujisan> Hmz it works again
<fujisan> no clue why it stopped working then
<fujisan> thanks for your help :)
<BigRedS> fujisan: Ah, that's the problem with the brute-force reboot way I suppose.
<BigRedS> you don't find out which individual part broke
<BigRedS> generally, it's network-manager :)
<fujisan> oh ok ty
<fujisan> yeah i wanted to reboot than the reboot didnt work and i paniced too soon i guess
<fujisan> oh btw what are the current recommended specifications for running Ubuntu where can i find this?
<fujisan> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements << according to this site recommended and minimum specs are the same?
<BigRedS> fujisan: it's quite possible
<fujisan> i dont get what they mean by recommended minimum
<BigRedS> well, it will work on systems substantially less powerful than the recommended minimum
<BigRedS> it'll just take a bit of fiddling. the reccomended minimum is what you need to get the sort of performance most people expect without having to fiddle
<fujisan> i have a 2Ghz cpu here 2 gb of ram and enough diskspace but still Ubuntu 10.10 does run a tad slower than previous versions
<fujisan> nautilus is really slow on this pc
<BigRedS> hmmm, does it do anything in particular slower, or is it just generally slower?
<fujisan> just whenever i try to open a folder my hardware makes a lot of noise
<BigRedS> hmm, might be worth running disk diagnostics. Are you running any other OSs?
<fujisan> harddrive*
<BigRedS> ah, if there's a bunch of hdd noise, it sounds like the hdd is at fault. probably worth looking into a new one. And taking a backup if you don't already :)
<fujisan> actually i am running ubuntu under wubi now and want to reformat the PC and make it Ubuntu only
<BigRedS> (I don't mean to make you panic, I just like to have spares and backups knocking around)
<fujisan> BigRedS:  could be the HDD is 6 years old
<fujisan> almost 7
<BigRedS> does the Windows install also do the hdd noises and slowness when accessing files?
<BigRedS> mmm, 7 years is a reasonable age for a hard drive. several do last longer, but many fail before then, too.
<fujisan> but really i abused the hell out of this PC and had the psu replaced 3x already
<fujisan> i paid around 80 euros for a decent psu so i can use it a bit longer
<fujisan> but i really want a netbook for Ubuntu
<BigRedS> mmm, I'm currently deciding between a new laptop and a new netbook
<BigRedS> but there's nothing really wrong with my current laptop, it's just a bit old
<fujisan> yeah i really want to stop using this PC it just uses too much power
<fujisan> and the CRT monitor alone weighs a ton
<fujisan> so whats the quickest way to format the PC just use an installer CD and then let the installer reformat right?
<BigRedS> fujisan: yeah, pretty much
<BigRedS> make sure you've put any data you want to keep somewhere safe first
<fujisan> oh ok
<BigRedS> which can be a separate partition on the same drive, if you want, but that does require some faffing. If the drive's making horrible noises, though, I'd look at replacing it first, then you can copy the data off the current one onto the new one
<fujisan> i have a newer drive already put in
<fujisan> the older a Maxtor i have suspected it's dying for a while
<BigRedS> Ahhh, I see
<fujisan> the newer one is Western Digital and it's only 3 years old
<fujisan> ok thanks for your help :) i am going to safe some files now
<fujisan> bu bye
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> yet another morning where I get to the office and there is no power
<daubers> stupid sothern electric
<diplo> Sounds the same as my old place, sub station kept blowing a fuse
<daubers> diplo: Thats what sec said
<diplo> daubers, we got SEC to supply us with a HUGE generator and wired us in and made them fix the problem in the end as it had happened so many times
<daubers> diplo: heh, we should try that one
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> morning
<danfish> hello
<danfish> time to bite the bullet and finally upgrade the main latop to 10.10
<BigRedS> I found 10.10 one of the less confusing upgrades
<BigRedS> I think all that changed was my default browser, which was easy enough to notice and revert
<danfish> oops "n unresolvable problem occurred while calculating the upgrade:
<danfish> E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be
<danfish> caused by held packages"
<daubers> Woot! Powers back
 * daubers fires the various virtual machines back up
<DJones> Thats what happens when you get rid of the kyrptonite
<danfish> yeah, borked package nuked, upgrade progressing :)
<j0nr> morning
<j0nr> ok, have set up new mail server on a temp ip address. I can send mail out, but how can I test if mail can be recieved? jon@ip.add.re.ss ??
<kazade> Hi everybody!
<daubers> j0nr: Pretty much
<gran> whats the command to eject a dvd drive?
<daubers> gran: eject
<gran> genius :P
<gran> ty
<daubers> No probs :)
<gran> its not binding the eject button on my laptop to eject the dvd
<diplo> Anyone here run a HP ProBook at all ?
<diplo> Reason for asking is whilst running 10.10 ( not tried any other Linux distro ) the fans are always kicking in, for some reason I had decided to leave the Win7 on there which was odd as I have used Linux exclusively now for over a year, and this doesn't happen under Win7.. any thoughts or advice would be appreciated on a fix
<diplo> Already tried changing cpu freq to see if that would keep it off more
<diplo> From little I've found it seems to be a ACPI issue, but I can't find a fix or any good suggestions so far, it could be my google foo sucks this week
<screen-x> morning :)
<dutchie> hi screen-x
<screen-x> Hey dutchie,  how much holiday do you have left?
<dutchie> screen-x: 2.5 hours
<dutchie> really should be packing
<screen-x> So your back to uni today?
<dutchie> yep
<screen-x> looking forward to it?
<dutchie> of course
<screen-x> :)
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> anyone recommend a server that takes the same drive caddies as a dell 2950, but 1U instead of 2U
<screen-x> morning andylockran
<andylockran> morning
<screen-x> I don't know dell's range, but most server vendors do 1u boxes with 2.5" or 3.5" disk options
<screen-x> can ~8 2.5" disks in a 1u box, but they are still really expensive :(
<screen-x> I started playing kvm/qemu and libvirt last night
<screen-x> got qemu/kvm working, but libvirt/virsh was a mystery
<diplo> andylockran, the 1950 ?
<diplo> We used to run 2950's and 1950's
<andylockran> diplo: thanks
<andylockran> that kinda looks obvious now
<screen-x> daubers: do you a libvert based kvm manager?
<screen-x> *libvirt
<directhex> kvm is awesome
<screen-x> directhex: I'm sure it is... do you know of anything that needs to be done to a clean 10.04 install, to get libvirt based kvm management tools to work?
<directhex> screen-x, add your user to libvirtd group and log out/in?
<screen-x> directhex: yep, done that
<danfish> screen-x: what happens when you startup the GUI?
<screen-x> danfish: I don't have any GUI stuff on this box at the moment. If I run qemu-system-x86_64 I can start a vm, but If I run virsh start guest, it fails.
<screen-x> looks similar to bug 581934
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 581934 in virt-manager (Ubuntu) "libvirtError: monitor socket did not show up.: Connection refused" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/581934
<daubers> screen-x: Yup
<screen-x> daubers: do you remember having to jump through any hoops to get it working?
<daubers> screen-x: I do management using virt-manager through ssh
<daubers> screen-x: Just had to muck about with ssh keys
<daubers> screen-x: I am in the process of building a virtual machine host... so might hit some again shortly
<daubers> screen-x: My virt-manager command line for ssh management is virt-manager -c qemu+ssh://root@192.168.119.252/system
<daubers> then I have root access with ssh keys
<screen-x> hmm, I can get the ssh bits to work, when I connected I get a list of non-running VMs
<screen-x> attempting to start a vm ends with libvirtError: monitor socket did not show up.: Connection refused
<directhex> screen-x, are you on amd or intel?
<screen-x> which I think is to do with a unix domain socket on the server.
<screen-x> directhex: intel 64
<directhex> screen-x, "modprobe kvm_intel" throws no errors?
<screen-x> modprobe kvm_intel works
<screen-x> [ 1978.635620] qemu-system-x86[22313]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000004e5140 sp 00007fff79c2c180 error 4 in qemu-system-x86_64[400000+246000]
<j0nr> daubers: hmm this new server keeps putting my 'from' address as my (once moved) domain name, rather than just from an ip address. I tried commenting out anything to do with my domain name in main.cf and also in muttrc
<j0nr> when I ssh in, it says i am logged in jonr@domainname.com: where's that coming from?
<j0nr> ive commented out name in /etc/hostname
<screen-x> j0nr: you want your emails to appear to come from jon@x.x.x.x ?
<j0nr> just for now, screen-x I can send email out, but it appears as from jon@domain.com so I cant just reply as that thenjust sends it to my old server
<screen-x> j0nr: probably easier to setup new-temp.domain.com with its own mx records
<j0nr> ergh... sounds too much
<screen-x> I just created a new vim with virt-manager and it started :) must have been a problem with the xml configs I imported from virsh
<j0nr> but what is telling my system to say its from 'domain.com'?
<screen-x> err s/vim/VM/
<bigcalm> 11/1/11 11:11
<screen-x> \o/
<andylockran> how to execute a command as a search result in vi?
<andylockran> i.e. :%s/test/:D/g
<screen-x> andylockran: what are you trying to do?
<andylockran> at the first occurance of the word test on each line, delete the rest of the line
<screen-x> :%s/test.*$/test/
<dutchie> andylockran: :help global
<davmor2> Morning everybody
<AlanBell> hi davmor2
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to find out how her upgrading went?
 * AlanBell prods people in general with http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/linuxexposchedule
<czajkowski> davmor2: it didn't
<czajkowski> ran out pf space on maverick
<czajkowski> so downloaded natty
<czajkowski> just need to create the usb
<czajkowski> this may have been wiser to wait till saturday when  I didn't need my laptop for the next 3 days
<davmor2> czajkowski: let me guess 8gb ssd
<czajkowski> yes
<kazade> AlanBell, Linux Expo? When? Where?
<BigRedS> there's an open sauce one at he barbican beginning of feb
<kazade> BigRedS, cool, thanks just found it
<kazade> (Googling Linux expo gives a load of crap results)
<AlanBell> kazade: good point, just added the URL to the etherpad
<AlanBell> http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/
 * AlanBell points kazade to the mailing list too
<kazade> it's a shame it's on a weekday
<AlanBell> best day for it to get people to come to an expo in London
<BigRedS> really?
<screen-x> depends which type of people you are after
<BigRedS> I suppose those who can pass it off as work
<AlanBell> well yes
<AlanBell> real people don't go to work conferences on a saturday
<BigRedS> I'd have thought fri+sat or something, to get people with some familiarity to go see it in real life
<directhex> AlanBell, fosdem!
<kazade> I'll probs book the day off, I've got 4 days unused holiday from last year :)
<kazade> day(s)
<AlanBell> directhex: sure, but compare it to something like a non-IT related conference
<czajkowski> directhex: fosdem is for people who already know and love the stuff :D
<czajkowski> less than a month to FOSDEM :D squeeee
<directhex> czajkowski, need to write my talk!
<screen-x> k
<czajkowski> directhex: likewise :(
<Laney> one year i will go to fosdem
<Laney> honest guv
<DJones> Laney: That sounds like one of those dodgy political promises "honest gov" or the apt job descriptions of Military Intelligence or Civil Servant
<Laney> :)
<Laney> my trustworthiness is for you to decide
<brobostigon> morning all.
<screen-x> afternoon brobo
<brobostigon> hi screen-x
<popey> eeek czajkowski you okay?
<czajkowski> popey: gotta say, been better. I know the girl meant well, but 4 of us are dying sick
<popey> erk
<popey> what happened?
<czajkowski> she was trying to make up for the fact she's been here for a long long time. cooked some chicken dish with some form of a dumpling, so dont know if it was the chicken gone off by 3 days... or the way it was prepared.. or what.
<czajkowski> woke up this morning to ring into office, tried to sleep till now and just answering mails and going back to sleep.
<popey> oops
<screen-x> oooh dear! hope you can get some more sleep czajkowski
<czajkowski> all I've to do is be ok by 3 for a conference call for an event we're doing and then I can go back and die
<czajkowski> nn folks
<davmor2> See watch this for nice now.......get well soon czajkowski
<AlanBell> oh no, a chicken related injury
<davmor2> AlanBell: better than a related chicken that's injured....
<screen-x> AlanBell: I don't think the chicken can be held responsible in this instance
<andylockran> get well soon czajkowski :(
<andylockran> yikes, disk failed in our raid
<andylockran> so swapped it out and put a new one in
<andylockran> and during the rebuild it would appear the other disk is also failing nicely :s
<andylockran> avg rebuild speed down at 64k
<screen-x> andylockran: nooo
<andylockran> good news is that it keeps dropping in and then out
<andylockran> but yeah, currently running cat /proc/mdstat and recording how many blocks are complete
<andylockran> 12:04:02	0.6707387081
<andylockran> 12:04:34	0.6708323134
<andylockran> 12:09:13	0.6715268317
<andylockran> 12:14:28	0.6722841365
<andylockran> as an example
<andylockran> not the prettiest table you'll every see
<andylockran> </>monologue
<andylockran> </monologue> even
<hoover> hi folks
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<brobostigon> afternoonings hoover and BigRedS
<BigRedS> ah, how's it going brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: **** , not so hot, my eczema is causing alot of painand trouble, and its not being nice. how about you ?
<BigRedS> I'm reasonably good. Been in since 4am though, getting tired of this being-at-work thing. And just generally tired... :(
<brobostigon> :(
<BigRedS> on the other hand, we have doughnuts :)
<brobostigon> yummy, :)
<BigRedS> yeah. got Sainsbury's apple ones which are nicer than I was expecting
<BigRedS> not too sweet, I think I might've accidentally grown up a bit...
<brobostigon> hehe. :)
<andylockran> RAID rebuilding 600GB array at 1%/hour...
<andylockran> currently on 68%
<BigRedS> I'd suggest you've bigger problems than a degraded raid
<diplo> Does seem rather slow
<andylockran> BigRedS: yep, master disk in the RAID array has lots of bad sectors methinks
<andylockran> joy joy joy
<shotgunfool> Hey all, can anyone tell me how i can get into Hardware information on ubuntu 10.10, it doesnt appear to be in the list of applications. Cheers. Shotgunfool
<BigRedS> If you open a terminal, and type 'sudo lshw' you'll get a big list. Are you after anything in particular?
<shotgunfool> yeah i need:
<BigRedS> system->administration->system monitor  has the CPU and RAM
<shotgunfool> pci
<shotgunfool> .subsys_vendor_id: mine is 144f
<shotgunfool> pci.subsys_product_id: mine is 7094
<shotgunfool> pci.vendor_id: mine is 168c
<shotgunfool> pci.product_id: mine is 1a
<shotgunfool> oops, ignore the mine is but, that was copied from the guide
<shotgunfool> its all about the network card
<BigRedS> ahh, sounds like you're after 'lspci'
<BigRedS> which is a terminal tool, again. I don't know of a graphical way of getting it
<BigRedS> But if you do applications->accessories->terminal  to get a terminal
<BigRedS> then type 'lspci' and hit enter, you'll get a list of *some* info about the card
<brobostigon> or cards*
<davisc> update-pciids is also a good idea first
<shotgunfool> hmm doesnt seem to have the information i need =/
<BigRedS> you can then do 'lspci -vvv -s<slot>' where <slot> is the string of : and . delimited numbersa thte beginning of the line
<BigRedS> which might give what you're after, I'm not certain
<BigRedS> amusingly, I have no wired nic in this machine
<DJones> "lshw" might help as well, it might not beinstalled by default though
<shotgunfool> got an error, "Bash: syntax error near unexpected token 'newline'
<diplo> shotgunfool, no one has suggested it yet but hardinfo is a nice little GUI app for exactly that
<shotgunfool> installing now
<DJones> T-Mobile have cut their mobile data usage tariffs to 500Mb from 1st Feb for pay monthly customers
<shotgunfool> still doesnt have enough information =/
<Laney> three's data network is pretty good IME
<shotgunfool> its only a fair use policy anyway, if you go over that, they generally dont charge you anyway, well i dont get charged for mine
<shotgunfool> Yay! found it, a program called "Device manager" got lots and lots of info ;)
<dogmatic69> o2 cut it from unlimited 1 year ago to 500mb 6 months ago to Â£1 per day
<shotgunfool> Â£1 per day is a bit excessive =/
<DJones> Laney: Most have cut them to 500Mb now, I think three were offering 1Gb in October when I changed my phone & vodafone 750Mb
<diplo> Odd, was looking at new phones yesterday and a lot of those mentioned still offering a GB
<Laney> I have 2gb apparently
<diplo> Friends tmobile is 4gb
<Laney> on my 15/mo contract
<brobostigon> on my o2 pay as you go, for Â£10 a month i get 500mb and 300sms, i am happ with that.
<Laney> http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.decuisine.co.uk
<DJones> diplo: T-Mobile have cut all their accounts to 500Mb, looks like it was announced yesterday/today
<Laney> guess who ordered christmas presents from here that haven't showed up yet? :(
<shotgunfool> on my tmob i get, 1000 mins, unlimited text (3000) and unlimited net(1gb) insured for Â£35 - g2 touch
<X3N> DJones: got a link for the announcement from T mobile?
<brobostigon> shotgunfool: a contradiction, how canthey be unlimited when there is a limit.
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: that is what i am on and they have changed it
<DJones> X3N: http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/t-mobile-cuts-unlimited-internet-fair-usage-limit-to-500mb-per-month and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12160654
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: how have they?
<shotgunfool> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/t-mobile-uk-cuts-fair-use-allowance-to-500mb-sends-you-home-t/
<dogmatic69> it is now Â£3 per meg with a max of Â£1 per day
<X3N> ugh, that's the whole reason I went with tmobile out the window
<popey> i have 10GB/mo on orange :D
<DJones> X3N: That first link seems to have quite a bit of detail on the changes for standard accounts
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: so i no longer get my monthly allowance,for the whole month?
<dogmatic69> For applicable tariffs with data capability: Unless a data or BlackBerry Bolt On is taken, your tariff will include O2 Web Daily under which data (for UK only use) will be charged at up to a maximum of Â£1.02 per day (00:00am to 23:59pm). Once you have reached your maximum daily charge of Â£1.02, O2 Web Daily allows you unlimited use of TelefÃ³nica O2 UK Limited's Edge/GPRS/ 3G networks (as applicable to your handset)
<dogmatic69> nope
<DJones> X3N: Official announcement http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=home&cat=DATA_CHANGES
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: thats crap.
<dogmatic69> i know
<dogmatic69> i bought it 6month ago with unlimited being the reason, only to find out it was changed to 500mb the day after i bought it
<shotgunfool> you know you have a 14 day grace period to return a phone
<dogmatic69> gonna move, f**k them
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: you're not alone, I suggest contacting T-Mobile to complain, perhaps via twitter.
<dogmatic69> i did not buy the phone, just the sim
<dogmatic69> o2 ...
<dogmatic69> but ye
<shotgunfool> ah, well surely you could have just cancelled the contract?
<dogmatic69> pay and go
<dogmatic69> i spent a lot on business cards with that number :/
<shotgunfool> ah, i see ;(
<dogmatic69> its really like false advertising
<dogmatic69> say something to get a lot of people buying it and then change when they are committed
<bigcalm> Humm, internet connection being weird
<bigcalm> Cut it out, vm
<dwatkins> 3 do a mifi device which offers 5 GB a month for less than a phone contract, dogmatic69
<Laney> you can port the number to a new network easily
<shotgunfool> but there isnt anything you can do about it because probably somewhere in the 30 pages of t&c it says your operator witholds the rights to change this policy at any time
<dogmatic69> Laney: that is what i was thinking
<dwatkins> I'm considering switching to using mifi and phone contracts with no 3G data allowance
<dogmatic69> shotgunfool: with out a doubt
<Laney> you can probably get a refund if they change the contract terms
<dogmatic69> ill just use my new BT free almost anywere wifi
<shotgunfool> but you signed to say they can change it
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: onthe o2 site, ontheir pay as you go pages,it still says, i get my 300sms and 500b for my Â£10, isee no indication of any change,
<shotgunfool> Applicable 1st of Feb i believe i read is someones post just up ^^
<BigRedS> Laney: you can't (if this is T-Mobile you're talking about)
<BigRedS> They've invoked the small print; it's a non-core service, so subject to all sorts of arbitrary changes
<brobostigon> shotgunfool: can you link me up,so i can read it please.
<shotgunfool> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/11/t-mobile-uk-cuts-fair-use-allowance-to-500mb-sends-you-home-t/ has some info on it
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: read the t&c says feb 2010
<dogmatic69> or google the text i just pasted
<shotgunfool> and no doubt www.mashable.com will have some info on it
<Laney> http://www.bitterwallet.com/want-to-cancel-your-t-mobile-contract-heres-how-to-do-it/18286
<diplo> BigRedS, I expect you can
<diplo> And Laney has found out how
<diplo> D:
<shotgunfool> brb going to get a coffee ;)
<BigRedS> diplo: that, by its own admission, isn't anywhere near concrete. It's a 'this might work'
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: Customers who joined O2 prior to 30th September 2005 will be charged Â£2.35/MB for GPRS WAP up to a maximum of Â£1 a day in the UK. Customers who joined O2 after 30th September 2005 will be charged Â£3.00/MB up to a maximum of Â£1 a day in the UK. If you're travelling abroad check the roaming pages. Minimum charge per session 1p.
<BigRedS> I'll be yabbering at ofcom, naturally, but I don't know that I want to risk terminating
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: pay as you go ?
<dogmatic69> yes
<brobostigon> bollocks.
<brobostigon> sorry.
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: that is awful.
<dogmatic69> http://www.o2.co.uk/explore/tariffs/paygo/oldtariffs/paygooriginal
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: why old tariffs page, not current tariffs.?
<livingdaylight> good morning
<hamitron> evening
<brobostigon> moin livingdaylight and hamitron
<livingdaylight> either way its good, unless one's in Queensland right now
<livingdaylight> can somoen tell me how to edit grup so I don't have all the old kernel versions listed; only the current one
<popey> !grub
<lubotu3> grub is the default boot manager for Ubuntu releases before 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See !grub2 for Karmic onwards.
<hamitron> can you not remove the old kernels?
<livingdaylight> hamitron, would that remove from list?
<popey> yeah, I'd use synaptic / apt to remove them
<hamitron> once you know everything works with a new kernel ofc
<popey> I'd always keep at least one other kernel around
<brobostigon> .37 seems to be working nicely her eon my eeepc 900.
<hamitron> if I was to install an old version of Xorg, would it be better to just compile and install to /usr/local or create .deb packages?
<hamitron> I am torn :/
<livingdaylight> application icons won't get out of the way as I try to re-arrange panel
<hamitron> having a nfs share mounted on /usr/local seems tempting
<shauno> hamitron: I'd probably build it under opt or local.  packages could get messy
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> you'd get things refusing to install because you don't meet their versions, or you'd have to lie about your versions .. and pin yours so you don't update them with bits out of a modern Xorg, etc
<hamitron> is it easy having 2 different X servers installed at once?
<hamitron> :/
<Laney> you could just download an old xorg source package from a previous release and install that
<hamitron> my initial thought was to just have a basic system with no X, then install it
<shauno> not sure about easy, but should be doable
<gord> hamitron, what part of "two different x servers installed at once" sounds easy to you? ;)
<kazade> gah, I'm such an idiot...
<shauno> I had two copies of gnome installed for the longest time.  just lots of manipulating LD_LIBRARY_PATH so things are using the right libraries at the right time
<hamitron> it sounds messier the more I think about it
<kazade> I needed a replacement Pentium 4 processor, so I bought the cheapest one I could find on Ebay... how was I supposed to know that the P4 came in more than one socket version?! :/
<hamitron> what version you bought?
<kazade> LGA775
<kazade> needed PGA478 apparently
<hamitron> suppose you could get a cheap motherboard
<hamitron> ;)
<kazade> heh, I would, but it's for a custom mini PC (custom form factor)
<kazade> the P4 had 3 different sockets
<kazade> that's just moronic
<hamitron> mine are 775 :)
<hamitron> I was poor during the age of the 478
<kazade> I've only ever bought AMD
<hamitron> struggling by with super socket 7
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 3pm, time for tea and cakes, bbl
<livingdaylight> are we going to see gnome 3 in the next version?
 * davmor2 wonders if czajkowski got up in time for her conf call
<moreati> livingdaylight: it won't be the default (that's unity) or installed by default. I haven't discovered if it will be packaged, but I expect so
<livingdaylight> so much choice now!
<livingdaylight> unity comes from the netbook?
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye
<moreati> livingdaylight: it originated as th UI for Ubuntu netbook edition
<davmor2> livingdaylight, moreati: It's already packaged as the gnomeshell package as I understand it, the applications and underpinning system is already gnome 3
<moreati> davmor2: ah cheers, I'd been looking for packages named some varient of gnome3 or with version 2.9x, but I last looked just before christmas
<davmor2> moreati: as I understand it the only difference is the shell and obviously clutter
<brobostigon> and then updates to software like nautilus and other gnome software,
<moreati> When using sudo what's the correct way to redirect output with root privs? (e.g. sudo echo 10 > /foo would fail because the shell interprets the redirection and opens the file, rather than sudo)
<moreati> I've tried various quoting and brackets, but without luck
<shauno> I just sudo sh -c "echo 10 >/foo", but I can't promise that's the correct method
<moreati> shauno: cheers. It works, which is the main thing
<MooDoo> ping screen-x
<screen-x> pong MooDoo
<MooDoo> screen-x: didn't you want something mate?  i only just got your message
<screen-x> I just wondered if you were awake at stupid-o-clock last night...
<screen-x> but probably not if you only just got the message..
<MooDoo> screen-x: yeah i was awake that late just not on irc, i didn't go to bed until 2am
<andylockran> guys, anyone help with mdadm?
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/306770/
<andylockran> sda3 is the master disk, and I'm trying to work out what that printout means
<davmor2> http://twitpic.com/3p1w4i pure comedy gold
<andylockran> sda keeps disappearing with read/write errors, and sdb is trying to rebuild off it.
<popey> andylockran: what does /proc/mdstat contain?
<andylockran> popey: http://dpaste.com/306781/\
<andylockran> popey http://dpaste.com/306782/
<Azelphur> http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/01/11/0415232/T-Mobile-Slashes-Fair-Use-Policy-Says-Download-At-Home
<andylockran> it flitters between the two.. :(
<Azelphur> Time for me to switch to 3!
<Azelphur> Also, same logic, don't buy a smart phone, download at home!
<Azelphur> It can wait ;)
<hamitron> :/
<andylockran> is there a way to see disk-writes in linux ?
<andylockran> can I see what is being written to /dev/sdb ?
<popey> iostat
<popey> andylockran: dmesg?
<popey> whats going on with the disk?
<andylockran> popey: it looks dead
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/306787/
<popey> replace it?
<andylockran> the master is dying, and the slave is currently rebuilding
<popey> can you see the data on it?
<popey> what do you mean by master/slave?
<andylockran> popey: master = active sync, slave = rebuilding
<andylockran> in the array
<popey> oic
<popey> can you see the data?
<andylockran> Input/output error
<andylockran> some data is ok, other not so much
<andylockran> I can see filesystem, but when I try to read file, get file read error
<popey> erk
<popey> backups?
<andylockran> yup.
<yarisbardella> w macccccccccccccc
<yarisbardella> ubuntu shit
<yarisbardella> :D
<MooDoo> wot?
<bigcalm> Trollers gonna troll
<DJones> Drive by trolling, who'd have expected that
<MartijnVdS> Waiters gonna wait
<jacobw> Evolution is really slow at mail filtering :(
<gord> jacobw, i use imapfilter
<andylockran> haha
<andylockran> brought the server back.. reseated the disks
<andylockran> booted it up
<andylockran> looks good :)
<andylockran> anyone about?
<brobostigon> o/
<suprengr> o_/
<jacobw> \o
<AlanBell> o/
<andylockran> ah ha
<andylockran> just hiding
<andylockran> working late tonight \o/
<andylockran> raid CONTROLLER fail! :p
<brobostigon> ouch :(
 * brobostigon gets andylockran a sneaky beer.
 * jacobw wonders whether KDE support will improve with the OO.o to Libre Office transition
<davmor2> jacobw: depends how many kde devs work on the project I quess
<jacobw> davmor2: Yeah I think so, I was thinking that perhaps now it will be easier for the KDE devs to get their patches accepted
<jacobw> davmor2: I get the impression that KDE integration was never high on the agenda for OO.o
<andylockran> I would LOVE a sneaky beer
<brobostigon> :)
<andylockran> but the good news is that the RAID array is 80% complete!!!
<brobostigon> yay
<andylockran> It was getting stuck at 67 when in the DC
<andylockran> so here's hoping for some good news
<andylockran> though if it is a dodgy controller.. I'll have to drive down to Nottingham tonight and pick up our 'spare hardware'
<amarcolino> anyone know how to stop /etc/hosts from reverting back to default as I have added my comps to it but on reboot it is gone?
<davmor2> amarcolino: did you use sudo to add the things to /etc/hosts and did you use the correct naming format?
<amarcolino> davmor2: yes I did I think its because of network manager as I was doing it manually and I am using 8.4
<amarcolino> will try editing directly in the network manager and see what happens if it doesn't save after reboot I am out of ideas
<davmor2> amarcolino: It should matter NM isn't responsible for /etc/hosts
<amarcolino> than I have no clue since editing it manually  doesn't save changes once the machine reboots
<davmor2> amarcolino: try using sudo nano /etc/hosts and add 192.168.1.1 router for example then ctrl-x, y to save and then reboot and see if it has saved it this time
<amarcolino> how would using nano compared to vi manke nay difference and I use sudo. I think the problem is with NM as I use different profile for my internet and only dhcp has the hosts saved whcih I just checked, when I change to bridge it removes the hosts I saved in the previous profile
<amarcolino> I guess a day lost to figure this out, I still find it weird  but their must be a good reason why it works like that
<mgdm> popey: got my bit.ly pro account </trivia> :)
<popey> yay mgdm
<andylockran> wahey - mdadm is actually a clever bit of kit
<HazRPG1> Hmmm, I was just checking out http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/ (was reading the minutes from last meeting), you know the flip-down podcast thing wasn't really that obvious
<andylockran> two disks fail in an array.. throw a third disk in and ask it to rebuild.  though actually I think it was a badly-seated, rather than failed drive, that caused the problem in the first place.
<HazRPG1> I over-looked it several times when viewing the page until someone pointed it out later on in the minutes
<HazRPG1> I feel that should be changed - just my 2 pence worth
<MooDoo> HazRPG1: yes it was put like that on purpose
<HazRPG1> MooDoo: really?
<HazRPG1> MooDoo: how come?
<HazRPG1> (just realised my nick)
<MooDoo> HazRPG1: yes it was done like that so a certain someone would see it and think yuck and create a decent logo, i don't think it's going to be like that when it's released
<hazrpg> MooDoo: Ah see I wasn't talking about the logo's design, I just meant that it wasn't entirely obvious that the whole thing did anything until it was pointed out in the minutes.
<MooDoo> oh i see
<hazrpg> the fold should have a better backdrop on it or something
<hazrpg> and possibly in that small section of colour is should have something to show that you should hover over it to see more
<hazrpg> s/is/it
<hazrpg> MooDoo: for the fold, something like this would be better: http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/53554/53554,1232382022,11/stock-vector-vector-paper-or-metal-with-realistic-corner-fold-or-curl-23547910.jpg
<hazrpg> ooo, idea... for the mini-icon in the corner you could have a small version of the headset on there
<hazrpg> I just shush now lol
<hazrpg> hmmm, pidgin has an update - moment
<brobostigon> pidgin for irc, :(
<HazRPG> back
<amarcolino> I don't know if it is because of chrome but gmail is acting sluggish or maybe its my system
<HazRPG> amarcolino: how so?
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I'm not experiencing any problems on my end
<HazRPG> and I always have gmail open (never close it down)
<brobostigon> 10.0.628.0 dev is the chrome version i have here, no problems either.
<amarcolino> HazRPG: twice I logged in and it just appeared frozen with the loading indication not actually letting read emails
<amarcolino> HazRPG: must be the system will explore in a bit considering I found what I looking for
<HazRPG> I'm running chrome 9.0.597.47 beta
<amarcolino> HazRPG: naver, you mean never never ever (yet why did I find this funy *sigh*)?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: what's the dev version like at the moment?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its working fine, no real issues as yet, that i can find, only some WM switching problems with gnome-shell.
<HazRPG> amarcolino: lol, literally NEVER (aside for needing to restart system due to app crash and/or update)
<andylockran> any recommendations for a multi-server mail system?
<nperry> Need a repo/git expert, I just repo sync'd gingerbread buts its missing a .git/head .. As my internet connecion takes me 3hours to do an inital sync how can I fix
<andylockran> postfix can do backup mx easy enough, currently running cyrus-imapd.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ooo, still haven't tried gnome-shell yet
<HazRPG> brobostigon: only just heard about it when I was doing a bit of usual oss news research lol
<HazRPG> I read somewhere that unity could be a problem for the relationship between gnome and ubuntu?
<HazRPG> that news article struck me as odd
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it is coming along really well, i can see gnome3 being really good, it does have a few issues though, although mostly it is stable and shows good performance,
<amarcolino> HazRPG: very nice I can't do it like you
<HazRPG> amarcolino: what was it you found that you were looking for
<HazRPG> brobostigon: interesting... does it have similar stuff that KDE introduced in 4.x
<HazRPG> never been a fan for KDE, but I did like some of the stuff they added in
<amarcolino> HazRPG: for a block control system called pgl
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i would say no,although i only last looked at kde for a couple of hours and got very annoyed with it, and gave up.
<HazRPG> amarcolino: lol, how'd ya mean?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I have a saved email convo witht he developer talking about it and its benefits compared to moblock
<HazRPG> I meant the previous thing you said lol ("very nice I can't do it like you")
<HazRPG> mainly cos I don't understand block control systems ^^
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I meant keeping the system on all the times specially gmail I use prism to read my gmail and to look at any other website
<HazRPG> brobostigon: thus the reason I'm not a huge fan of KDE, it has some cool features - but as a whole it just doesn't seem all there lol.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: iwould tend toagree, i  amliking gnome-shell, because in and for gnome3 it will improve alot of things i had issues with, like the workspace manegement,
<HazRPG> amarcolino: ah yeah, that's one of mozilla's apps isn't it. I use to use gears by google for the same sort of thing. Now I find it easier just to pin gmail into chrome and leave it running lol.
<amarcolino> HazRPG: supposedly keeps certain ips from your system think of it as an extra layer of protection can be a pain but once you set it properly its wonderful, however, I am always suspisious of having a false sense of security. USeful for servers depedning how much you value your data
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I find my systems last longer when I don't turn the things off lol.
<livingdaylight> what color is a brown bug?
<livingdaylight> what continent is South Africa in?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: yeah I like it specially how it look good on my panel which is acting like a dock
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I tend to be working on a project, and rather keep the folders/apps/etc open (saving before hand) and walking away from the computer then actually turn it off...
<livingdaylight> why aren't the questions on who want to be a millionaire that easy?
<amarcolino> livingdaylight: because than I would be on the show
<Azelphur> I'm having theme problems with gnome-settings-daemon again :(
<amarcolino> livingdaylight: I thought those were capture questions at first
<Azelphur> some stuff is themed, some stuff is half themed
<HazRPG> amarcolino: ah, I get you now.
<amarcolino> HazRPG: why not make use of the shutdown command?
<livingdaylight> amarcolino, they are in a way... first time I encountered flood-bot
<livingdaylight> they're questions to ensure one is a human and not a spam-bot
<HazRPG> amarcolino: Computers break faster the more you turn them off, you never see a server randomly doing unexpected things after several years of being left on ^^
<amarcolino> I really need to get a spellchecker in irssi
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] AskUbuntu reaches 6000 questions - 13000 answers - 8000 users - 60000 votes - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/askubuntu-reaches-6000-questions-13000-answers-8000-users-60000-votes
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh, funny you should say that I tend to have trouble with that too.
 * HazRPG grabs a chocolate finger and eats it
<brobostigon> HazRPG: gnome3 willmake big improvements with gnome-shell onthat front,
<amarcolino> livingdaylight: really, I think you'd one of the few people to not have  been caught by it so far
<HazRPG> brobostigon: sounds like it :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: try it out, see whatyou think.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I think I might have to ^^
<livingdaylight> amarcolino, first time ever just now. Has flood-bot been going for a while?
<HazRPG> I'm guessing you can pick whether you run in gnome-shell or gnome2 in the usual way right?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: you make a point, wether its valid I wouldn't know, on the plus side your electricity provider must like you a lot
<brobostigon> HazRPG: its either metacity as the WM, or gnome-shell.
<livingdaylight> is there a particular way of uninstalling an Adobe app, like Spaz for twitter, other than just finding and removing the folder?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: you knew what I meant :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> <=== not quite with it, still got coders mindcap on
<HazRPG> got a deadline for a booking system at the end of the month
<amarcolino> livingdaylight: yes I've been hit twice or three times at first thougt I was in the wrong place and became frantic
<Azelphur> anyone? this is really rather ugly :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: the theme thing?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: switching to metacity and logging back in didn't do the trick?
<Azelphur> relogging solved it before but now it doesn't
<HazRPG> and have a meeting on Friday morning (urgh... mornings) to show progress so far, but you know what designers are like 'if you can't see it, its not really there :/' type attitude
<amarcolino> just looked at the beta site, eeergh what is that thing in the top-right-corner will it be changed?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: need to figure out why it's happening...
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are you running natty?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> 10.10
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I was talking about that before :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: still nothing in .xsession-errors that could explain it?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, I restarted gnome-session-daemon a bunch of times
<Azelphur> and it's made improvements
 * brobostigon reflashes ipopey with android
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, nope :(
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do you have a custom theme set up?
<ipopey> Evening
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try removing any ~/.gtkrc (like) files from ~
<Azelphur> yes but the same thing happens with normal themes
<MartijnVdS> eyepopey
<brobostigon> evening popey
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1575703 ?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: wat did they tell you?
<MooDoo> hello popey
<HazRPG> anyone been experiencing problems with 10.10? Such as random freezes when left unattended for a while?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I've seen it happen on machines with nvidia video drivers and 3d-intensive screensavers
<MartijnVdS> any specific machine this is happening on?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, dunno
<Azelphur> I managed to get it working by restarting gnome-settings-daemon
<Azelphur> so it's clearly something intermittent with that
<Azelphur> it works fine once I've got it running once
<HazRPG> amarcolino: MooDoo said that its done like that on purpose so that someone might design a new logo for it. I mentioned that the fold doesn't make it appear completely obvious that anything was there (or at least to me anyways) and that a mini-logo should be placed in the corner
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes, but it crashed for a reason -- check dmesg for the "segfault" messages
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, it didn't crash
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: strange
<Azelphur> it was and still is running
<Azelphur> when it crashes it resets your entire theme
<Azelphur> but with me I only get certain unthemed elements
<Azelphur> eg one button on the panel will be themed while another isn't
<MartijnVdS> maybe a part of it crashed? (I see "scim-bridge" in the forum posts)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: its running on an old P4 machine, with the gnome feet screensaver - doesn't have nvidia graphics card because it's a horizontal desktop (all built-in style one from like years past)
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> next time it happens I'll start rooting around log files
<Azelphur> for now...my new PC works yay :)
<Azelphur> time for some benchmarking.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: in fact, graphical effects are turned off completely so that it doesn't lag out
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: could be broken hardware if it's p4
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hmmm, shouldn't be it was running fine under XP until now - I just put ubuntu on it because my sister only uses it for check e-mails and facebook, thought XP was a bit over-kill for it lol
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, haha, just opened nautilus
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you could try an overnight memory check (from the startup menu)
<Azelphur> it's not themed at all \o/
<Azelphur> xchat is, gnome-panel is, nautilus nope.
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/500417
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 500417 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus doesn't honor gnome theme" [Low,New]
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might try that, problem sort of started just after she set it to the gnome feet screensaver so I might turn it off too
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, but if I kill gnome-settings-daemon it'll no doubt come to life again
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what kind of graphics does it have? (which chipset)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (if you don't know, please put the output of lspci on pastebin)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I'd assume gnome-session would respawn it, yes
<HazRPG> should be intel if I recall
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Intel made graphics chips in the p4 age?!
<MartijnVdS> please check :)
<HazRPG> lol will do :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, yea, so if I restart gnome-settings-daemon it fixes itself
<Azelphur> and then it'll drop out in some other area.
<Azelphur> it's like intermittant theming faults all over the place
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: try finding a bug for it on launchpad
<HazRPG> 82865G integrated graphics controller
<HazRPG> intel*
<MartijnVdS> ah the old 8xx series
<Azelphur> bit difficult to describe the issue well enough to google it :S
<MartijnVdS> that might be your problem right there.. they're not known for stability
<Azelphur> I might head to gnome irc and bug people
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: gtk (or gnome) theme reverts :)
<Azelphur> yea those are all bugs for gnome-settings-daemon crashing though
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ahh, hmmm... any workarounds for it?
<Azelphur> which it isn't, and my entire theme doesn't revert
<amarcolino> HazRPG: hopefully someone will design something better for the moment I suggest leaving it out, its the odd element on the page
<Azelphur> only certain controls
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: plug in a PCI/AGP/PCIe (whichever applies) card and use that
<amarcolino> what is the difference between asking for help here compared to the main channel?
<Azelphur> we're cooler
 * Azelphur runs
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I would (have several cards lying around in boxes), but its an awkward case to put anything into it
<HazRPG> the size isn't a standard height, so its hard to find anything that'll actually go in there lol
<HazRPG> it was an old school computer that was getting its usual 3-5 years computer replacement, and my friend who works in the IT dept. told me about it, I asked him to ask the managers if I could take a few - and they said yeah sure :p
<HazRPG> people always make fun of me for collecting bits of hardware that no one wants (and still work), yet they always seem to turn to me when something goes wrong and need parts xD
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thanks for the heads up though, I'll see if I can get it resolved somehow - for now I'm going to try turning the screensaver back to blank and see if that shows a temp solution.
<Azelphur> 112108 frames in 5.0 seconds = 22421.527 FPS
<Azelphur> \m/
<Azelphur> glxgears :p
<ipopey> ...is not a benchmark.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: might do an over-night mem test too
<Azelphur> ipopey, but it was fun :(
 * brobostigon wonders if he can root ipopey ?
<ipopey> Not from there
<brobostigon> :(
<ipopey> Not that it needs it
<HazRPG> amarcolino: agreed
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202011/IMG_20110111_212431.jpg
<Azelphur> are we fast yet ;)
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I do that as well I collect hardware, old comps, bits & bobs here and their
<amarcolino> there*
<AlanBell> Azelphur: try this one . . .
<AlanBell> time echo "scale=5000; 4*a(1)" | bc -l -q
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I've always thought bottom-mounted PSU's are counter productive (heat distro wise)
<HazRPG> amarcolino: haha, its great isn't it :P
<Azelphur> hehe
<HazRPG> I always have a spare machine for testing things on :P
<amarcolino> HazRPG: yup :D
<brobostigon> me eeepc is probebly as testing as it could be, debian sid,with experimental repos.
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I think in the garage I have PC's ranging from P2 to Core 2 Duo... several keyboards and mice, RAM, HDD's of all sizes, etc
<brobostigon> its definatly interesting,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hehe nice
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i have had this setup for months with no problems now, even though debian call it their unstable version,
<ipopey> Azelphur: Try this http://www.hantslug.org.uk/wiki/HugoRandomBenchmark
<brobostigon> HazRPG: only problem i had was whenrunning kde.
<Azelphur> ipopey, 4.5 real
<Azelphur> I'm not overclocked yet
<Azelphur> that puts me third on the list, woot :D
<HazRPG> brobostigon: that's the thing though, even though they're classed as unstable - people don't try to code to make things broken on purpose - its usually minor bugs here n there that only a few would notice
<ipopey> :)
<czajkowski> evening
<Azelphur> real	0m4.592s || user	0m4.580s || sys	0m0.000s
<Azelphur> yup, we're fast now :D
<czajkowski> sleep works wonders, as does tea and toast
<ipopey> Add it to the list
<amarcolino> HazRPG: where you get the coreduos for me its the old types p3/p4
<ipopey> It's a wiki :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: agreed, its only when something goes wildly wrong for a verysmall amount of people, it fails, very little otherwise, does it fail.
<Azelphur> haha, why is deep thought on the list
<amarcolino> weird I am seen as a guest in #ubuntu
<ipopey> A joke
<ipopey> Yay czajkowski
<HazRPG> amarcolino: the core 2 duo is from my old setup, along with one of the P4's I have.
<HazRPG> amarcolino: because I just recently upgraded to an i7
<HazRPG> you know what I don't think I have an p3
<HazRPG> I have a p2, and several p4's though
<HazRPG> and an AMD one that one of my friends donated me because he didn't know what to do with it
<HazRPG> brobostigon: heh, just noticed your KDE comment - I find with the unstable KDE's, that many things seem to be broken because they forget to take out or change some dependencies or deprecated libraries
<HazRPG> brobostigon: all depends on the coders working on the project, I prefer gnome's style
<zleap> 1 anyone noticed todays date 11 01 11 :)
<ipopey> Yup
<zleap> :)
<ipopey> I noticed at 11:01 :)
<amarcolino> HazRPG: nice collection I got a three dells, which have been with me for over a month and haven't been colected not sure if they will be, wondering to myself if it means they are now mine? Would come in handy when I attempt to mess around with eucalyptus
<zleap> i noticed when i got my bus ticket earlier
<brobostigon> HazRPG: kde seemed to run fine, i justhad problems using it, more than anything else. not with anything else really.
<Azelphur> added myself \o/
<ipopey> Nice one
<HazRPG> zleap: if you add two 00's in front of the 11 01 11, it's the ASCII code for 7 in text
<Azelphur> my next thing will be to add water cooling
<Azelphur> and over clock to at the very least 4ghz
<zleap> ohh cool
<Azelphur> :)
<zleap> 00110111
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ahh lol
<HazRPG> amarcolino: nice, hopefully they will be :P
<HazRPG> amarcolino: mine are usually custom-builds that people just didn't want anymore
<HazRPG> or one's I picked up from the school that were getting thrown out - along with other bits of hardware
<brobostigon> HazRPG: it just didnt seem to work in a natural way for me,
<HazRPG> they said I was allowed 4 PC's, monitors, keyboard and mice - but I could take apart as many as I could and rip them of parts in the space of 2hrs (because that's when they were going to be collected as I got there)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: KDE never seems to for me either
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I always find their GUI looks a bit off sometimes too
<HazRPG> one of my pet peeves is for buttons and textboxes to get a random dotted outline on them - it just irritates me to see it
<HazRPG> always did a format of windows whenever it started doing it, and KDE seems to have it in as standard for some obscure reason
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i cant explain it in those terms, it just didnt work in a way, i would naturally thinkabout using it.
<livingdaylight> very disappointed with Twitter: succumbing to pressure to hand over information to us authorities
<HazRPG> brobostigon: you know what I mean though, that awkward dotted outline that always appears on "highlighted" objects
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i dont remember, sorry.
<HazRPG> esp when it does a different colour around the object too - you really don't need both, one or the other would suffice - but that might just be me getting OSD in my old age lol
<HazRPG> OCD* even
<amarcolino> HazRPG: lucky you the last time I asked a school they had entered a sort of agreement to recycle their comps or soemthing, it is good but I still thought f*
<amarcolino> HazRPG: hah four pc but you could rip as many as you wantedwhy not just give them instead of imposing the hassle
<brobostigon> HazRPG: that seems more  like a window toolkit problem, than the WM, a different window manager shouldnt ithink, change how elements in windows behave,
<HazRPG> amarcolino: same reason you mentioned above lol, they were entered into a recycling agreement
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I was amused being sat in a tin-box full of old servers and computers ripping them to bits lol
<HazRPG> felt like being 10 years old again, and just been handed a screw driver and some toys xD
<HazRPG> brobostigon: true... but doesn't the WM still define how objects are made?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: im still waiting for someone to throw away an actual server, not that I am complaining with what I am using now and lol to that vivd description, I guess that's how it is
<brobostigon> HazRPG: not sure, how objects are drawn,ithinkis xorg's job.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: possibly, but I'm sure the WM still defines the outlines, and the general size/resize/etc of stuff
<HazRPG> I mean xorg is still the same regardless of whether you use gnome or kde
<brobostigon> HazRPG: maybe, worth futther research,
<HazRPG> amarcolino: ^^
<HazRPG> amarcolino: you can buy a cheap server from DELL directly every season change
<HazRPG> "summer sale", "winter sale", etc
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: mid-season sale
 * MartijnVdS doesn't believe in "sale" anymore ;)
<HazRPG> I stand corrected :P
<HazRPG> I think until 27th of jan, you can get a Dell server as cheap as Â£200
<HazRPG> I bought one several years ago (similar model to the one priced as low as Â£200) and its still running a treat
<amarcolino> HazRPG: wasn't aware of that, I really should explore more
<AlanBell> does KVM do some kind of magical something to make virtual machines faster than the host?
<HazRPG> I always keep an eye out for hardware prices, esp server stuff - because I like learning about server o/s's and apps
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's a kind of magic *click* *click*
<AlanBell> if I do :time echo "scale=5000; 4*a(1)" | bc -l -q
<AlanBell> it takes 28 seconds in a VM or 40 seconds on the host
<amarcolino> AlanBell thanks for mention kvm, would xen work on any machine (kvm isn't supported), what would be the requirements for using xen with ubuntu?
<HazRPG> heh, sorry its Â£269: http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/promo.aspx/promocompare?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=4
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: in one case, the kernel sees a huge process eating CPU
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: in another, it sees.. bc doing the same
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it might still be a scheduler thing
<AlanBell> yup, I am freaked out by this
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: is the hostname "tardis.something"
<AlanBell> amarcolino: you need the VT extensions or you are back to emulated CPU or something
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: why don't you believe in sales?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: it should be
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: They're always having sales with "x% off" everywhere
<HazRPG> or the very fact of a sale doesn't stand for what they use to be anymore?
<amarcolino> HazRPG: looking at the starter server from dell and it ocmes with windows, hmmm, wouldn't be a problem if I actually knew how to use it, where is the linux version (if their is one)?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you never see things offered for the "real" price, only discounted :)
<HazRPG> amarcolino: you can have it without windows when you customise it, or you can add money to get linux on it
<amarcolino> AlanBell: no vt, would it under perform that much using emulation I will have to use xen with eucalyptus so would like to get a grasp of what I need
<HazRPG> but its Redhat and SuSE server's... so there's a licence fee attached to them
<AlanBell> amarcolino: no vt==no eucalyptus
<AlanBell> however I don't believe you when you say it has no VT
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: agreed, sales are always on a constant cycle now too - so its too predictable now too
<amarcolino> HazRPG: "add money to get linux on it" that should be a free option, will look at the site and see what it offers and will look at your link
<HazRPG> the link is to the offers for the servers
<ipopey> amarcolino: Phone dell up and they will usually sell it to you with Linux or clean
<amarcolino> AlanBell: NOOOooo, being seriously you just took the fun out of that guess VB or a cluster it is, might as wlel put these machines into use instead of gathering dust
<amarcolino> ipopey: thanks for that info
<HazRPG> btw, for all the ones on the site you can pick "no operating system" and it will deduct the value of the O/S from it
<HazRPG> amarcolino: It should be, except Red Hat and SuSE have enterprise versions of the O/S which require a licence to get support from them - sure you can download a free version, but it won't include all the stuff in the paid one, plus you won't get any (or minimal) support for using them
<HazRPG> which is why I always get a clean no o/s one and just put any I want onto it
<HazRPG> debian or ubuntu server is a good starting point
<HazRPG> regardless of whether you get an o/s or not installed, you still get a stack of CD's with drivers for most O/S's and also a quick install boot CD thing
<HazRPG> its quite awesome, you load that disc in, and then stores the whole CD straight onto the hard drive and boots from it - so the install time gets drastically reduced
<HazRPG> (stores the O/S CD your trying to install I mean)
<HazRPG> or something like that - that's my understand of how it works at least
<HazRPG> all I know is it took like 3 minutes to install windows 2003 server onto mine when I used that disc instead of 30mins lol
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I've been with ubuntu for a long time even knowing only no so long ago i've been working with the server edition, no help their just me with a lot of patience, may not be the best but it works
<livingdaylight> how does one remove a directory?
<hamitron> loose graphics cards make pretty patterns \o/
<hamitron> rmdir if it is empty
<hamitron> but I tend to just use rm -rf
<ipopey> Click on it and press delete, or drag it to the rubbish bin
<hamitron> oh yeh, there is a GUI ;)
 * HazRPG has a sudden urge to facepalm
<HazRPG> amarcolino: know what you mean
<HazRPG> its not that hard to install an O/S anyways, I tend to prefer to install an O/S myself regardless
<HazRPG> every laptop I've ever owned, I've only ran the OEM version of the O/S for like 5-10 mins at a time to make sure everything is working before doing a format to it lol
<HazRPG> can't stand pre-installed crap
<amarcolino> HazRPG: the only problem with dell not sure if they do it on their servers, but they do it on their comps is the amount of rubbish software they preinstall
<hamitron> I got a dell vostro without much crapware...
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I do format the comps I get once i verify that is working
<HazRPG> hamitron: I can guarantee that a clean install will still be better, most likely will run a lot less processes running in the background too
<hamitron> it is only the accounts department who use it, so I don't worry whilest there are no complaints ;)
<HazRPG> amarcolino: I think the only other thing I tend to do is note down the hardware just in case I need to find them later lol
<HazRPG> ah so it was bought for business purposes, prob why it has less crapware lol
<HazRPG> if its bought for home, they tend to pile it on thick
<hamitron> I can imagine, it was advertised as crapware free
<HazRPG> :P
<amarcolino> HazRPG: only thing I don't dothat , I've gotten into the habbit of saving the drivers once I find them got them in folders named as the computer model(s)
<hamitron> when they first released the vostro range, that was one of the huge selling points
<HazRPG> haha I do that
<HazRPG> hamitron: I can imagine ^^
<HazRPG> amarcolino: got a folder for each of the computers I have lying around in the house ^^
<hamitron> do you guys delete folders of drivers when the part breaks?
<HazRPG> only if I have another one lying around the house that's similar, or I know friends who own them too
<hamitron> I was thinking of doing so, but now wonder if I should keep them in case someone ever finds it hard to get the drivers I have
<hamitron> :/
<amarcolino> hamitron: nope just keep them on the external drive, that is why it is their for, things go in and rarely get deleted
<HazRPG> I have folders for my friends hardware that I'm constantly having to fix too - that way it makes my job easier the next time round ^^
<amarcolino> HazRPG: I do that :D still charge the same :(
<HazRPG> :P
<amarcolino> dam how do I do a shy emoticon
<amarcolino> I mean blushing
<ali1234> *-.-*
<HazRPG> so you should, its still your time/resources at the end of the day
<HazRPG> or :$
<amarcolino> ali1234 to the rescue
<HazRPG> (*','*) would be better lol
<HazRPG> at least that way its smiling :P
<amarcolino> HazRPG: yes it is and some of the comps I had to look at took hours to find the actual drivers, its one thing to pop the livecd in, lspci/lshw than look for the drivers
<amarcolino> you people crack me up with your emoticons
<hamitron> does one wait for sandybridge or just buy a cheap i3? ;/
<HazRPG> hamitron: depends, do you want to buy sandcastles or a computer :P?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> 8 virtual cores is just like, orgasmic
<HazRPG> some of the sandybridge CPU's are out now you know :P
<amarcolino> discusting in a good way
<HazRPG> amarcolino: holy crap, I never thought of doing it that way
<amarcolino> /discusting/>/absurd/
<HazRPG> <== feels like a noob right now
<HazRPG> (despite knowing those commands)
<amarcolino> I was talking about the eight virtual cores
<HazRPG> (and always has a pendrive/cd with ubuntu on)
<hamitron> out now, but beyond my budget
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: i7's aren't that bad you know
<HazRPG> I've got an i7-930
<hamitron> I am tempted with a Intel Core i3 550 3.2GHz
<amarcolino> HazRPG: how would you go about looking for the drivers, I don't know how much time the livecd has saved me identifying the hardware
<exobuzz> popey, maverick/mint/jolicloud got some "minorish" updates..
<HazRPG> amarcolino: always do it based on the hardware info from windows
<exobuzz> popey, joggler images of course.
<popey> nice one exobuzz
<HazRPG> amarcolino: e.g. my network currently under windows is: VEN_10EC&DEV_8167
<amarcolino> HazRPG: never tried that way, I forgot windows does have that
<exobuzz> popey, i need a blog really.. rather than going on irc to mention it :)
<HazRPG> putting that in google will eventually lead to the driver (depending on how rare it is)
<HazRPG> there's a website somewhere which can tell you what the vendor and model is based on those figures
<HazRPG> however linux tells you exactly what stuff is usually without having to go on the internet
<amarcolino> HazRPG: oh didn't know that, tried finding those types of sites its either attempts me to download their so called software or I get malware warnings
<HazRPG> totally making a mental note on that one
<ali1234> RTL-8110SC/8169SC Gigabit Ethernet
<ali1234> you can thank me later
<ali1234> http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/10ec/8167
<HazRPG> haha well done
<HazRPG> knew someone would google it ^^
<HazRPG> that's exactly what the card is ;)
<hamitron> someone talk me out of this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200934
<hamitron> :/
<exobuzz> yeh
<amarcolino> HazRPG: never mind I once tried to figure out how to change the name of the admin user in windows 7 only to figure out later it would be easier to make a new admin user and delete the previous, problem solved. Don't know why the simplest things can be the hardest
<exobuzz> get 1155 i5-2500k sandy bridge
<hamitron> I should wait and get an i7
<HazRPG> hamitron: don't do it!
<exobuzz> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251596
<amarcolino> ^ funny
<exobuzz> thats what you want
<HazRPG> hamitron: I had to send back 3 motherboard and CPU's which used the 1156 socket, before going "sod this for a game of soldiers" and ended up getting an i7 instead
<ali1234> wait for amd bulldozer
<exobuzz> and a new mb of course
<ali1234> hyperthreading sucks
<HazRPG> 1366 socket
<hamitron> at Â£185, I'd rather spend Â£235 for the i7 with ht
<exobuzz> you can get em for a little less than ebuyer
<hamitron> yeh, I was just using ebuyer to get a rough estimate
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> is it the i7-950 you'd go for like?
<exobuzz> new i7 unlocked one is Â£275
<HazRPG> cos I'm running the i7-930 with no issues
<exobuzz> but i dont think its going to be a lot faster than the i5 for most stuff
<HazRPG> which is Â£211 on ebuyer
<HazRPG> exobuzz: what do you plan to do with it?
<hamitron> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252536
<exobuzz> HazRPG, dunno. but i just bought one yesterday
<exobuzz> compile kernels
<exobuzz> :)
<exobuzz> hamitron, yeh. got a locked multipler but still fast..
<hamitron> ali1234: you wouldn't bother with HT?
<exobuzz> i bought a h67 mb anyway which means i cant use the unlocked multiple anyway
<hamitron> I never overclock
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: what do you plan to do with yours?
<exobuzz> but then only the K chips had the intel hd 3000 graphics
<hamitron> but the better i7 does have better onchip graphics
<exobuzz> intel are playing silly buggers
<hamitron> :/
<exobuzz> hamitron, same as the i5 K edition
<hamitron> I plan to play games
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i had a chip with hyperthreading, it doesn't do much...
<ali1234> it's certainly nothing like 2x as fast
<HazRPG> hamitron: then go for the i7 ;)
<hamitron> then later I will get a newer gaming rig and use it for crunching
<ali1234> i suspect sometimes it is actually worse
<HazRPG> hamitron: cos if your gaming, you'll have a dedicated graphics card - so you'll never see the benefit of having an on-board gfx chip on the CPU
<hamitron> the i3 3.2ghz is about half the price...
<HazRPG> or rather GPU on the CPU I mean
<hamitron> 2 real cores, with ht
<exobuzz> hamitron, the i7-2600 has the slower gpu
<exobuzz> th K has the faster
<exobuzz> which is not Â£234
<ali1234> speaking of crunching
<exobuzz> sorry. could have put that on 1 line
<exobuzz> hamitron, http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-031174.htm
<brobostigon> http://www.osnews.com/story/24243/Google_To_Drop_H264_Support_from_Chrome :)
<hamitron> brobostigon: for what?
<ali1234> does anyone happen to know how nyquist limits apply to digital data on an analogue baseband with frequency slightly below the original digital signal such that the bits get "blurred" - and how i might go about recovering the signal using van cittert deconvolution?
<HazRPG> hamitron: http://www.pcupgrade.co.uk/productdetails.asp?productid=8918&categoryid=542
<exobuzz> this is why its silly. K series has better graphics. for h67 chipset. but also unlocked clock, not usable so far on h67 chipset. K series has better gpu not usable on p67 chipset, which can do the overclocking
<HazRPG> ah wait, that's ex vat
<amarcolino> ali1234: uni assignment? No I would have no clue
<ali1234> amarcolino: no, it's just for fun
<brobostigon> hamitron: for using an oss codec,webm, insted of h264 a msaaivly closed format.
<hamitron> I can't load webpages with throttled internet :/
<hamitron> ah, ok
<ali1234> i'm not sure if it's even possible
<amarcolino> ali1234: if that is the case don't let me interrupt you, please continue
<jacobw> you should ask in #debian :)
<hamitron> I don't want tripple channel memory ;/
<amarcolino> ali1234: I don't even knwo what you are talking about
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<ali1234> imagine you take a picture of a barcode and the picture is really blurry. i mean *really* blurry such that some parts are just solid grey
<ali1234> can you get back the original barcode?
<HazRPG> hamitron: triple channel memory, is compatible with dual channel memory ^^
<HazRPG> or rather the other way round
<hamitron> the motherboards cost too much
<HazRPG> if you buy a dual channel memory, the motherboard will use them as such - even though it can have triple
<hamitron> at least the ones I priced
<moreati> ali1234: no would be my guess. If you want a reliable answer, try and do it.
<moreati> ali1234: no would be my guess. If you want a reliable answer, try and do it.
<ali1234> i have been trying it. from a simple 50% threshold i can read back about 40% of the data reliably
 * moreati hangs head in shame for douvle post
<exobuzz> my new setup cost Â£570 including 24" monitor..
<exobuzz> not bad really. no separate gpu though. going to try the built in one
<ali1234> so i'm thinking more advanced algorithms should be better... see... thegrey bits are never more than 2 pixels long - so we know it's either 10 or 01 :)
<hamitron> I got a gts450
<hamitron> :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/241996 <== that's the one I'm running
<exobuzz> wait.. Â£620. i forgot the case. but still ok
<amarcolino> ali1234: I think partially if you got the tools but I ain't an expert also don't work for any police forensic department to tell you for sure (thank god for csi :p)
<ali1234> actually since it's not really a barcode - just very similar - i should probably look at how barcode reading software does it
<hamitron> there is a 1156 motherboard that takes my PSU :)
<hamitron> save my 65 quid
<hamitron> me*
<HazRPG> exobuzz: do ya really need a new case? I've been using the same case for 7 years now xD
<exobuzz> HazRPG, yeh coz i got a laptop now :)
<HazRPG> no one will ever make me part my Shark case :P
<exobuzz> heh
<hamitron> Â£155 on a motherboard? :|
<exobuzz> popey, do you use this btw? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ECnN7jdgA4 :)
<HazRPG> hamitron: that's not bad considering my Core 2 Duo motherboard cost me Â£230 back in the day
<hamitron> mine cost Â£32
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> hamitron: I buy good, so that I don't have to worry several years down the line
<amarcolino> I think i've reached a point where I have to get my cli display just the way I want and no compromises, it might be a syndrome I wonder if it can get me days off work
<hamitron> HazRPG: I never worry, if you knew some of the comps I use.... ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: do tell :P
<exobuzz> HazRPG, ouch. must be a nice mb though eh :)
<HazRPG> exobuzz: haha it was a beaut. :P
<hamitron> I was using my P120 and K6-2 500MHz a hour ago :/
<exobuzz> i wonder does it matter i bought an atx case but a microatx board. i mean it will fit i checked, but maybe you get more stuff with a bigger mb for similar price ?
<exobuzz> more slots etc i guess. not that i need them but
<hamitron> more pci slots normally
<HazRPG> exobuzz: it depends on what you plan to do with it really lol
<HazRPG> or pci-e
<hamitron> I personally like to add as many cards as technically possible ;)
<exobuzz> HazRPG, just.. usual dev stuff. not really games and so on. just cpu ram and a hd needed really
<exobuzz> hamitron, i do that with my a4000 but not really ever owned a pc tower..
<exobuzz> as a main machine.
<hamitron> I still use 2 x voodoo2 :/
<HazRPG> exobuzz: so not an awful lot of expandability needed then? Then an MicroATX should be fine
<hamitron> they just look impressive, taking the full depth of the case
<HazRPG> you only really need a bigger board if you want more RAM slots, PCI, PCI-E, etc
<exobuzz> i got 4 ram slots and i bought 2x4gb.. even though i 4gb would be fine probably.
<hamitron> 16Gb is the limit for win7 home?
<exobuzz> current machine only recently upgraded to 2gb.. was on 1gb some weeks back
<HazRPG> hamitron: I do that too, have too many cards plugged into mine xD
<ali1234> hamitron: windows memory limits are complicated: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
<ali1234> 16gb for win7 home premium 64 bit
<exobuzz> one thing even with a new fast pc.. flash on linux will still be sh*t
<ali1234> true
<hamitron> who used flash? ;/
<hamitron> uses*
<ali1234> but that's because flash is hammering the graphics bus
<exobuzz> adobe..
<exobuzz> bbc
<exobuzz> thats it.
<amarcolino> I still don't understand why flash would underperform in linux
<hamitron> and banners
<exobuzz> i must be very careful with this new pc. in the past i have managed to put an atx power in the wrong way round. no idea how much strength i used for that.. might have been alchohol involved
<amarcolino> I use flash a lot of sites do that's why I block them and only allow what I want to see
<ali1234> amarcolino: because of video compositing
<ali1234> flash that doesn't use video runs ok on linux
<hamitron> so the only spec I know for my new pc... must handle 16Gb ram :/
<ali1234> of course, 100% of flash websites that anyone actually cares about are video streaming sites
<exobuzz> 16gb for ?
<ali1234> adobe should just make a video streaming plugin and forget about flash
<hamitron> web2.0?
<hamitron> ;/
<amarcolino> ali1234: is it due to the architecture of the OS? Permissions, etc
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it's due to them only having 1 linux developer, and he doesn't understand how to use hardware decoding APIs, instead prefering to cry on his blog about how hard it is...
<hamitron> sounds like UT3 linux dev :)
<ali1234> the funny part is he has enough time to respond to the troll comments there, but when someone points out exactly why he is wrong in a calm and technically accurate way he is strangely silent
<amarcolino> ali1234: have to ask how would you know this, really one linux developer?
<ali1234> i know this from... reading his blog
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS, I think I might know what's causing my problems
<Azelphur> I think it's a race condition because I'm running off an SSD
<ali1234> amarcolino: http://blogs.adobe.com/penguinswf/
<amarcolino> ali1234: could I have the link please, thanks you're quick
<Azelphur> it usually only happens to apps that open early (gnome panel, nautilus)
<Azelphur> and when I restart those apps by killing them, it fixes the theming
<Azelphur> so I think gnome-panel and nautilus are loading faster than gnome-settings-daemon and not getting fully themed or something, rofl
<exobuzz> if a gnome panel is full of stuff. why cant you access the right click menu..
<exobuzz> am i missing an obvious shortcut ?
<ali1234> exobuzz: no, that's just how it is :(
<exobuzz> weird decision that
<exobuzz> i want to add an applet and ive got to move stuff to make space to right click
<exobuzz> or close windows
<hamitron> HazRPG: what problems you have with socket 1156?
<exobuzz> *grumble*
<amarcolino> exobuzz: yes it is specially for someone like who uses the panel like a dock
<jacobw> docky to the rescue
<ali1234> there used to be a "panels" control panel thing but apparently it was "too complicated" because it got removed
<moreati> exobuzz: if the window list or the sytem tray (windowisms, sorry) drag the handle a bit and that will make some space to right vlick on
<HazRPG> hamitron: it just simply didn't work, I had 3 motherboards and 3 CPU's sent back
<exobuzz> docky ? /me looks it up
<amarcolino> jacobw: does it need 3d acceleration than this sis vga wont do
<exobuzz> moreati, harder to do on a touchscreen though ..
<HazRPG> hamitron: the system would power on, but everything appeared life-less - no POST no beeps, nothing
<hamitron> hmmm
<exobuzz> moreati, jolicloud for example. very hard to add something. in the end i used gconf-editor to make a space
<hamitron> HazRPG: I am tempted with this and an i3 http://www.ebuyer.com/product/189292
<moreati> exobuzz: gnome panel wasn't designed with a touch screen in mind
<exobuzz> another gnome gripe.. i want to move a window on a touchscreen .. quite a tricky one
<exobuzz> moreati, thats true.. but then some of the accessibility stuff is only half done.. you can emulate a right click, but not a double click
<exobuzz> for example
<moreati> exobuzz: I refer the hnourable exobuzz to my previous answer s/gnome panel/gnome/
<exobuzz> move a window on a touchscreen when content is out of view.. i mean.. cant use the shortcut keys. easystroke is about the only ay i know of
<amarcolino> exobuzz: I read about jolicloud in one of the magazines I buy, haven't tried it, what's your opitnion of it?
<exobuzz> amarcolino, looks nice.. ubuntu underneath.. lacks some features
<exobuzz> ive been running it on my joggler http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<amarcolino> why do I keep seeing this websites being posted that just want to make me slap the developer, making everything big does not make an elegant site AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
<exobuzz> amarcolino, some annoyances also. im not sure yet how useful the remote application stuff is with jolicloud.
<exobuzz> amarcolino, the joggler site ?
<Azelphur> amarcolino, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA!
<Azelphur> :p
<amarcolino> exobuzz: what do you mean by lacks some features, what's missing, it is supposed to be minimal 'I think'
<exobuzz> amarcolino, no working out the box onscreen keyboard, no ability to make shortcuts easily to your own apps etc
<exobuzz> the interface is a remote site, and it needs some improvements still
<HazRPG> hamitron: well you know yourself better than I do lol
<amarcolino> exobuzz: ok, I think I read something about the link issue or it might be the interface for ubuntu on netbooks, it does have something to offer will wait till it matures
<exobuzz> amarcolino, was your comment regarding "big" regarding the joggler page btw ? if so, the fonts or ?
<HazRPG> amarcolino: that seems like a pretty sound board though
<amarcolino> exobuzz: nope, what's the joggle page? Just a site that was posted, I browsed I didn't like it
<exobuzz> aah ok.. i posted a link just before you wrote that :)
<ali1234> hmm... does anyone know of software that can combine two videos of the same thing into one copy with higher quality?
<amarcolino> exobuzz: http://iamaviard.com/site/work-hard/about-us just seems bloated no clue what the site is about
<exobuzz> i posted http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/ and then you wrote about sites.
<exobuzz> i got worried :)
<amarcolino> exobuzz: coincidence!?
<amarcolino> exobuzz: if you take the red pill you'll know the truth, if you take the blue your sanity is saved and you're on an irc channel
<amarcolino> I dont like the joggler site :p, however, it is quite hard to achieve elegance and neatness
<exobuzz> heh. well its supposed to be functional over design.. started as a couple of paragraphs and grew
<exobuzz> i would agree its not great looking for sure.
<HazRPG> brb
<amarcolino> I think I am having one of my grumpy moments on top of that I haven't eaten in five hours, WoW
<exobuzz> should get some food and a nice cup of tea!
<amarcolino> you should I am this is ridiculous can't stay that long on the comp without eating
<Azelphur> MattJ: XMPP \o/. It's misbehaving :( http://pastebin.com/r6EbVSVg
<MattJ> XMPP \o/
<Azelphur> any idea why it's misbehaving? :(
<MattJ> luac -p /etc/prosody/prosody.cfg.lua
<MattJ> What does it say?
<Azelphur> MattJ: permission denied unless I run it as root, then it says nothing.
<MattJ> Prosody doesn't run as root - make it readable by the prosody user
<Azelphur> ah
<MattJ> If that fixes it I'll see if I can have it show a better error
<Azelphur> yea it does fix it
<Azelphur> so yea, better error would be a good idea
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-12
<Azelphur> Anyone know how I might get DD-WRT to drop a DHCP lease?
<Azelphur> I changed the Mac address from my old PC to my new one, but my old PC still has a lease
<Azelphur> and the routers not giving me the right IP :(
<hamitron> isn't there a drop button?
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> nope
<hamitron> under DHCP clients there is a trash icon
<hamitron> Status->LAN
<Azelphur> so there is
<Azelphur> ty
<hamitron> I only knew because I check who is doing what every 5 mins :/
<Azelphur> MattJ: where does prosody store it's db of logins? :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: hehe, that fixed me ty :)
<hamitron> np
<hamitron> wish I could get below my download limit
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 61 of 60Gb used
<hamitron> and I want to download 7 cd ISO for CentOS still
<Azelphur> hamitron: switch ISP?
<hamitron> demon internet
<Azelphur> 60GB on demon?
<Azelphur> I thought they was 200
<exobuzz> where is my 100mbit/100mbit for Â£10 a month
<hamitron> 60gb is good
<exobuzz> come on uk. the swedes have it!
<MattJ> Azelphur: /var/lib/prosody
<hamitron> Azelphur: only if you are in a Cable&Wireless exchange
<Azelphur> hamitron: protip for getting unlimited go to samknows put your postcode/number in and look for unbundled options
<Azelphur> those are pretty much your unlimited ISP options
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> I could pay Â£36 per month for 240Gb
<hamitron> but I have a feeling that would add to my lack of hdd space
<hamitron> :/
<exobuzz> bethere are ok.
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> i uploaded 300gb last month and no nasty letters
<hamitron> I have unlimited upload :)
<exobuzz> hurrah!
<exobuzz> who with ?
<hamitron> well, unrestricted 440kbps
<hamitron> ;/
<exobuzz> aah
<exobuzz> i get around 2mbit.. and 18mbit down. got more before they built a cinema and shops next door
<exobuzz> they lowered the line quality!
<hamitron> I tend to get about 1mbit download, so don't complain ;/
<hamitron> and it often drops to 128kbit
<exobuzz> but there are so many linux isos to download!
<hamitron> all I want is 1 distro!
<exobuzz> i would be happy with 10mbit/10mbit really. sacrifice some download speed for more upstream
<Azelphur> 3 are apparently doing unlimited no fup wireless broadband
<Azelphur> seems interesting if it's not all lies
<exobuzz> hamitron, damn small linux then :)
<hamitron> I read dsl is dead
<exobuzz> i think so . shame though
<exobuzz> used it on my xbox1 was quite ok
<popey> Maximum Downstream Data Rate :  20480000
<popey> \o/
<hamitron> I think Wary Puppy 5.0 looks like a good alternative
<popey> Maximum Upstream Data Rate :  2080000
<popey> :S
<exobuzz> popey, 20480000mbit ? :)
<exobuzz> :D
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> gardencam needs your upstream.. especially when it goes hd
<exobuzz> :)
<popey> :)
<hamitron> I think they should make everyone use 56k for 1 week each month
<hamitron> it would stop websites from getting bigger ;)
<exobuzz> popey, im getting ubuntu uk podcast withdrawal. you are all allowed a break of course, but it is coming back for a new season right? :)
<exobuzz> ill have to start at the first one again :)
<popey> maybe :)
<exobuzz> i never got a reply about my mirror btw
<popey> who did you mail?
<exobuzz> davewalker
<popey> ok, mail podcast@ubuntu-uk.org
<exobuzz> ok thanks. i got the add off the mirror info site
<popey> ah ok
<popey> he's mega busy at the moment
<popey> we can sort it
<exobuzz> there was no rush or anything. just mentioning it like. im no nag :)
<popey> I appreciate it :)
<popey> right, bed!
<exobuzz> nite!
<Azelphur> MattJ: making progress, \o/ http://pastebin.com/8MrFdSBM
<Azelphur> it does the stanza being handled error for everyone in my contact list
<Azelphur> pidgin finds no transports with service discovery, :(
<andylockran> hey guys
<Azelphur> think along the lines of things I forgot to copy or wrong permissions, as I just reloaded
<andylockran> anyone use a version controlled filesystem?
<andylockran> I want to keep version controlled document store for my company.  Wondering what the most 'transparent' method would be.
<MattJ> Azelphur: that error means Spectrum isn't connected
<Azelphur> spectrum isn't connected to legacy or prosody?
<MattJ> To Prosody
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> how would I debug that?
<MattJ> Spectrum's logs perhaps?
<Azelphur> MattJ: yea I looked for them, but there's nothing in /var/log/spectrum :(
<MattJ> Tried just restarting it?
<MattJ> brb 10 min
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> kk
<MattJ> Hmm
<MattJ> Does Spectrum have a debug mode?
<Azelphur> MattJ: not sure
<Azelphur> MattJ: lol I ran it manually and it worked
<Azelphur> :S
<Azelphur> but if I use the init.d script, it hates me.
<MattJ> Heh
<MattJ> What did you do to break everything? :)
<Azelphur> just being me as usual :(
<Azelphur> MattJ: looks like the init script isn't starting them
<Azelphur> or it's causing them to crash on startup
<Azelphur> because they arn't running after I start them
<Azelphur> still obviously a spectrum problem, I'll keep plugging at it ty :D
<MattJ> np, perhaps HanzZ can help when he wakes up :)
<Azelphur> [01/12/11 01:02:31] <libpurple/plugins> Unloading plugin XMPP
<Azelphur> just noticed that xD
<Azelphur> just in case you wanted to have XMPP in your XMPP, you can now.
<MattJ> Oh you can :)
<Azelphur> we herd u liek xmpp, so we put xmpp in ur xmpp so u can xmpp while u xmpp.
<Azelphur> \o/
<MattJ> :)
<Azelphur> MattJ: went into the init.d script and found it runs them with -q, which means print no output, changed that and got it complaining about permissions
<Azelphur> fixed all the permissions, still doesn't start :D
<Azelphur> lol
<MattJ> Did you chmod your whole system or something? :)
<Azelphur> MattJ: I just copied files across without preserving permissions, probably should have preserved :P
<Azelphur> hacked up the init.d script even moar, got some new errors yay
<Azelphur> success, I got it :D
<MattJ> Yay :)
<Azelphur> I had to hack up the init.d to remove quiet, echo command output, echo the command it was running :P
<Azelphur> and that got me the errors \o/
<Azelphur> ty :p
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
<xenic> mornin
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> time for tea!
<j0nr> morning!
<screen-x> morning :)
<screen-x> Every 6 months I have to sign a form to say that I haven't had any negative reactions to latex gloves, not generally a problem in my desk based sysadmin post..
<DJones> screen-x: My wife has to do something similar working in the NHS, some people have reactions to either the latex, or the talc that gets used in some brands
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: well, there's the LARTing of course
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: you do wear latex gloves for that, don't you?
<AlanBell> screen-x: ever tempted to write "I can hardly sit down" on the form?
<screen-x> AlanBell: euugh
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "People react negatively all the time when I put them on"
<screen-x> AlanBell: I did once write "no problems with latex, but lyx causes irritation"
<AlanBell> top geekiness :)
<DJones> I hope they're not the same gloves vets use that cover from the fingers through to the shoulder
<daubers> screen-x: Did you wonder if someonw processing the form had to go and look up what Lyx is?
<screen-x> daubers: maybe ;-)
<daubers> Wonder which they consulted first, a medical text book or google
 * daubers ponders if there's another router lying around the office so he can simulate the system going into the DC
<bigcalm> Good morning fellows :)
<BigRedS> good morning!
<bigcalm> If I update a project's trac.ini, I shouldn't have to restart anything for changes to take effect. Should I?
 * AlanBell heads off to Londong
<danfish> \o AlanBell
<AlanBell> cabinet office in Admiralty Arch today
<danfish> o/ everyone else :)
<danfish> AlanBell: ooh, sounds...interesting
<bigcalm> Morning
<screen-x> mornign bigcalm:)
<AlanBell> danfish: yup, they are keen on Open Source at the moment
<AlanBell> czajkowski's boss will be there too
<DJones> Is it "keen on open source", or "keen on cheap/free" software
<AlanBell> cheap
<DJones> Thought so
<AlanBell> however we are trying to educate them on the value of Free
<bigcalm> Grrr
<bigcalm> I can send email using mutt but trac fails to send anything
 * bigcalm turns green and rips his shirt off
<DJones> ewww, bigcalm has gone mouldy
<MartijnVdS>  ZOMBIE ATTACK
<AlanBell> don't you just love that feeling when you do sudo halt on the wrong machine
<bigcalm> Ouch
<danfish> AlanBell: I was wondering where you'd gone!
<screen-x> AlanBell: no
<screen-x> especially when the machine is not in the vicinity
<directhex> AlanBell, at least the machine wasn't off in a remote datacenter?
<AlanBell> this time I will actually go, and I will turn off the *laptop*
<AlanBell> directhex: yeah, it is on a shelf behind me which isn't too bad
<danfish> AlanBell: invite the cab office folks to the opensourceexpo ;)
<AlanBell> danfish: I will
<davmor2> morning all
<dwatkins> hi folks
<davmor2> morning dwatkins
<screen-x> how do KVM VMs boot so fast? its nuts.
<krimzon2> is there any way to upload to ubuntu one on the command line?
<screen-x> krimzon2: cp the file to a synced dir?
<danfish> screen-x: shurely you're not including windows vm'sin that statement?
<screen-x> danfish: this one is an ubuntu server vm
<krimzon2> hmm... is it possible to sync folders on ubuntu server?
<freckle> krimzon2: create a sym link to a synced dir
<popey> Good morning chaps!
<screen-x> good monin :)
<bigcalm> Morning mukka
<davmor2> morning popey
<krimzon2> how would I set up a synced dir on a server? I've been looking around trying to find what protocols I can use
<bigcalm> rdiff
<krimzon2> ahh, sweet
<bigcalm> Is one option that I'm sure others can add to
<screen-x> plain rsync is an option
<bigcalm> Oops, I meant to say rsync
<bigcalm> Been using rdiff-backup, which confused me
<krimzon2> I mostly want to automatically back up stuff I couldn't replace if my house burnt down
<andylockran> morning!
<andylockran> haha, having a fab day :)
<screen-x> andylockran: excellent!
<andylockran> long day yesterday, but today @BsBrumbleBee is keeping me sane :p  having such a laugh
<BigRedS> Are tehre plans for an open-sauce-expo themed pub trip?
<BigRedS> I might not make the expo, but I may be coming to london that day anyway
<awilkins> I remember this article, something like "CSV done right" that expounded on the right way to do CSV files and how not to do them (ie - Excel) on the web but I can't find it.. :-(
<directhex> okay, here's the strategy
<directhex> you take values
<directhex> and you separate them with commas
<directhex> MAGIC
<andylockran> hehe
<BigRedS> That sounds rather complex for my linking
<BigRedS> how about using XML instead/
<awilkins> I wanted to link to it to someone who wants a CSV file
<awilkins> I want to do it right ; ie - one char for escape, one for field separator, one for record separator - and that's it
<awilkins> None of this quoted / unquoted fields bollocks
<bigcalm> I use pipes instead of commas
<awilkins> I was intending to use tabs
<directhex> bigcalm, use unicode poops
<directhex> no risk of those being in your document
<awilkins> But the characters you select are of little consequence if you know the escape character
<awilkins> You could use "e"
<awilkins> What the hell is a poop?
<directhex> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm
<awilkins> Is that a real char name or a made up one (like "squonk", which is my name for that one on the top-left key on the UK layout)
<awilkins> Muahahhaaha
<directhex> it's part of the unicode 6.0 additional characters
<BigRedS> awilkins: squonk? I like it. I call it the doom-shell-key :)
<directhex> so is Unicode Character 'CAT FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY' (U+1F639)
<directhex> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f639/index.htm
<BigRedS> Though I did enjoy working with someone who referred to '*' as 'splat'
<BigRedS> "ls splat dot splat"
<awilkins> Was backronym for "SQuare thing ON the Corner" (but looks better with a K than a C)
<screen-x> directhex: hilarious that that character exists!
<screen-x> its like clipart all over again http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/block/miscellaneous_symbols_and_pictographs/images.htm
<bigcalm> Who came up with these?
<directhex> screen-x, but now all your fonts need those characters!
<directhex> bigcalm, japanese mobile phone companies.
<screen-x> my browser/font fails every symbol in that block
<screen-x> "sorry I can't use the ubuntu font, it doesn't have a steaming..."
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> Shortcake seems wrong
<awilkins> LOVE HOTEL
<awilkins> bwahahahahahahahahhaaa
<screen-x> Are glyphs allowed to define colours? http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f49a/index.htm
<awilkins> "Fields will be separated by PILE OF POOP, records by CATFACE WITH TEARS OF JOY, and the file will be terminated with LOVE HOTEL"
<bigcalm> Pile of poo, amazing
<directhex> screen-x, no. it's just a letter, like r or % or Ã¾
<screen-x> directhex: so how can "green heart" exist?
<directhex> ÅÂ¶Å§âââÃ¸Ã¾ÅÄ¸jÄ§ÅÄÃ°ÃÃ¦Â«Â»Â¢âânÂµ
<screen-x> or is it an alternate meaning of green?
<directhex> screen-x, with difficulty
<awilkins> Presentation is up to the font author
<awilkins> Just like you could have a font of ROT-13
<directhex> screen-x, i guess what awilkins said, i.e. the client device can replace the glyph with a coloured image
 * tugrik pops in to the channel on one of his sporadic visits
 * tugrik scrolls up
 * tugrik boggles
<directhex> awilkins, windings!
<awilkins> WingDings are what you get when you want stupid-assed chars before you've invented unicode
<tugrik> I didn't realise how little I knew about unicode... I have no idea how much of the previous 100 lines is genuine or not ;)
<DJones> tugrik: I thought they were being made up until I looked at http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/version/6.0/index.htm
<Laney> you can fall back to another font if a symbol is not found
<directhex> reality is funnier than make believe
<screen-x> 'WOMAN WITH BUNNY EARS' (U+1F46F)
<tugrik> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f624/index.htm
<tugrik> hmmm, not sure that's "FACE WITH LOOK OF TRIUMPH"
<awilkins> Is there "CATGIRL" ?
<awilkins> Hmm.. Googling "unicode CATGIRL" has some disturbing links
<tugrik> it's always best to google with safesearch off
<tugrik> amazing what brings up NSFW images
<awilkins> And to hit "I'm feeling lucky" when using search terms like "catgirl"
<seeker> Anyone got any good ideas for how to detect adverts in TV programs?
<MartijnVdS> louder sound
<screen-x> seeker: decrease in dynamic range
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: YOU AGAIN! :P
<screen-x> :p
<awilkins> seeker, The MythTV project has some implementation of that
<andylockran> is there an issue with using ! on the linux commandline
<seeker> MartijnVdS: Apart from the fact the sound isn't actually louder :P
<tugrik> andylockran: yes
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: only if you use it once
<seeker> awilkins: Yeah, but it sucks for UK television
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: if you use it >1x in a line, you're fine (unless it's !!, that's special too)
<awilkins> seeker, They have a bunch of methods ; logo detection, blank keyframes some multiple of 30s apart, etc.
<screen-x> andylockran: yes
<MartijnVdS> seeker: it appears louder
<tugrik> seeker: depending on the interface you have, couldn't you identify that standard image before and after ad breaks for a particular programme?
<awilkins> seeker, I think the TV networks are wise to it and have implemented countermeasures like video testcards for programs, etc.
<seeker> MartijnVdS: That'd be the loss in dynamic range :P
<awilkins> seeker, Saw a cue dot for the first time in a decade recently
<awilkins> seeker, They used to be very common, now they are a rare thing
<seeker> awilkins: Yeah
<tugrik> MartijnVdS: multiple ! does weird things, so I don't think >2 is safe
<AlanBell> bigcalm: there are such plans, check on the etherpad
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ?
<AlanBell> pub
<AlanBell> expo
<MartijnVdS> tugrik: I've done gstreamer command lines fine
<bigcalm> AlanBell: tab failure?
<screen-x> AlanBell: you mean BigRedS
<MartijnVdS> tugrik: but to be safe, escape \! :)
<seeker> Hmm, I wonder if average frame brightness would be useful
<AlanBell> too many big people
<seeker> Or colour saturation
<awilkins> seeker, Depending on the genre, possibly
 * bigcalm struts his stuff
<AlanBell> bigcalm: you can come to the pub with BigRedS if you like
<bigcalm> Heh
<tugrik> why do you ask seeker ?
<awilkins> seeker, The audio compression thing will go away - there has been legislation against it recently in at least one domain.
<seeker> awilkins: I think that'd work for cartoons
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: actually a good thing, too
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Just not for commercial detection that uses it :-)
<seeker> tugrik: Fed up with having tom manually skip ads in mythtv
<MartijnVdS> Another option would be a disappearing channel logo
<awilkins> Myth does logo detect
<seeker> To the point where I'm considering trying to find a better way and implementing it :P
<MartijnVdS> seeker: hire someone to write an XML file describing every ad :)
<MartijnVdS> seeker: "10:30-10:35"
<MartijnVdS> seeker: "10:40-10:45"
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I think I'd rather clean streets
<andylockran> any docs on setting up sftp on ubuntu
<screen-x> apt-get install ssh
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: not openssh-server?
<screen-x> Package: ssh Depends: openssh-client, openssh-server
<MartijnVdS> oh
<MartijnVdS> didn't know that :)
<andylockran> ah, ok ta
<andylockran> argh, lftp as a sftp client
<andylockran> it works :p
<jpds>  
<andylockran> lost for works ?
<andylockran> words *
<popey> msgme4childporn: thats a really inappropriate nickname you've selected there
<msgme4childporn> ummm i should change it?
<popey> ummm, yes.
<andylockran> tbh I think that needs a kickban
<directhex> dynamic ip, won't help
<bigcalm> directhex: could just ban btcentralplus.com :)
<dfrt67ytgftyu> no please dont do that :(
<bigcalm> dfrt67ytgftyu: why would you have such a nick in the 1st place?
<andylockran> it's a massively inappropriate nickname...
<dfrt67ytgftyu> i dont know i thought theres no rules on irc
<bigcalm> Each network has its own subset of rules. You should read the CoC
<screen-x> dfrt67ytgftyu: there are rules on freenode
<jpds> Hmm, I wonder how the computing law fits around that.
<andylockran> dfrt67ytgftyu: there are also certain levels of decency that I'd hope people would stick to with/without rules.
<daubers> zyxel routers are a pain in the bum
<bigcalm> popey: box came today, I'm so happy
<screen-x> daubers: cheap and painful?
<daubers> screen-x: I can't even get the poxy things to route properly!
<screen-x> always a handy feature in a router
<daubers> All the static routes are correct, but still nothing. Firewall is apparently off, still nothing
<daubers> stupid blasted cheap rubbish
<screen-x> daubers: can you telnet in?
<daubers> screen-x: Nope. Even though telnet is supposedly on
<screen-x> rubbish :(
<daubers> Finally get into that, and it's essentially the web interface. Can't even see the poxy routing tables!
 * MartijnVdS read that as "proxy routing tables" and was confused
<drt6778> hi, if i want to install packages which are available from more than one package repo in my sources.list, how can I ask apt to prefer one repo over another ?
<popey> it will default to newest version
<popey> is that not what you want?
<MartijnVdS> you can use pinning, but that requires a degree in abstract mathematics to configure
<danfish> daubers: install dd-wrt?
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> I have PHP pinned to 5.2 as some of my clients' projects won't work on 5.3 and there is no budget for upgrading time
<bigcalm> That was a PitA to set up
<drt6778> the problem i have is that i have to boot off the live cd every time, so im trying to create a local package repo so I can install the software I need quicker
<drt6778> i dont necerssarily need the newest versions,
<MartijnVdS> You can burn a live CD with packages you need on it
<MartijnVdS> or a live-DVD
<MartijnVdS> or a live-USB-stick
<MartijnVdS> which might work around the problems as well :)
<popey> drt6778 looks like you're booted to a live CD/USB stick already
<drt6778> i dont like cds, i just need to make apt get stuff from the local repo instead
<popey> 12:32:05 [freenode] -!- drt6778 [~ubuntu@host81-129-61-108.range81-129.btcentralplus.com]
<popey> 12:32:05 [freenode] -!-  ircname  : Live session user
<drt6778> popey: yeah i am,
<popey> right
<drt6778> lol this isnt actually possible
<andylockran> any idea how to enable the flash recovery area in Oracle XE ?
<KrisDouglas> I have just been on the phone to HP for about an hour trying to get this P1005 working
<KrisDouglas> and i aksed to be put through to the right department and they transferred me to O2's home broadband callcentre!!!!
<KrisDouglas> Rediculous.
<daubers> danfish: Tempting
<DJones> Heh, the evil one returns
<QuitePleasantBig> bah.
<hamitron> Pleasant? ;/
<BigRedS> well, I thought there was a lot of evil happening
<hamitron> guess I was lucky enough to miss it
<hamitron> :)
<BigRedS> haha
<awilkins> Hmmm ; shame that drt6778 fellow went, I think he wanted "apt-mirror"
<awilkins> or apt-proxy
<jpds> Transparent Squid proxy.
<awilkins> A bit overkill, you just tell the installer not to update from remote repos while installing and then configure it to use your local repo proxy
<hamitron> or unplug the network cable
<gord> to anyone that has been to UDS before and knows the wonders if the Ubuntu SSID networks, i can get the Ubuntu network in my room here, makes me very happy -_-
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> there's a UDS now?
<awilkins> Ooh. UDS. I dream of being able to attend such marvellous events on the pretext of it being good for my organisation (it would be, but the people in charge just don't know it :-)  )
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: Canonical sprint
<gord> the wireless AP is literally across the hall!
<gord> huh, just realised that the face of cowsay looks like an owl, can't look at it any other way now
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: ah! :)
<MartijnVdS> gord: owlsay.. also, it's themeable
<screen-x> it totally does!
<Laney> popey: can you add http://bloge.orangesquash.org.uk/tagged/planetubuntu/rss to planet -uk please?
<Laney> I forget the proper procedure
 * Laney â¥ tumblr
<Azelphur> does anyone know what the deal is with the python-twitter library in the repo
<Azelphur> it's been bricked for like 3+ months now since twitter switched to oauth
<DJones> Azelphur: Doesn't gwibber use that to connect to twitter
<Azelphur> not sure
<DJones> Azelphur: I know gwibber works fine with twitter at the minute, probably better and more reliable than ever
<MartijnVdS> you're using "gwibber" and "reliable" in one sentence
<Azelphur> haha
<DJones> Heh, since maverick, its been rock sold :)
<MartijnVdS> not for me
<MartijnVdS> but that might be natty ;)
<DJones> Azelphur: Just looked, python-twitter isn't a depend for gwibber, that use python-oauth
<Azelphur> hehe
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: They've changed all the backend out in Natty which might explain that it's been fairly solid of late though for me at least
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I've uninstalled it and am now using only the websites
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: also, I've uninstalled evolution because it's crap and hogs the indicator menu
<MartijnVdS> So now my "messages" indicator only contains empathy
<MartijnVdS> And there was much win
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: harsh dude ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Evolution is fast on your system? :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Yeap
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: wow
<Azelphur> lol no wonder gwibber is constantly broken, twitter is broken :/
<awilkins> I might try Evolution now since Thunderbird 3 broke my heart
<Azelphur> dropping old auth methods to break any app, the RSS feed is broken (and completely removed in the new twitter interface)
<gord> just ordered a nice arm tegra 2 netbook (ac100) very exciting -_-
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it did? how?
 * MartijnVdS likes the gmail-like "archive" options
<MartijnVdS> now all I want is "send this + archive thread"
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Currently my evo is monitoring 7 email accounts, with multiple thousands of emails in all of them with no issues at all
<freckle> davmor2: is that gmail accounts or some/all IMAP/POP?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: mine has one IMAP account and one Exchange account, but even without the Exchange bit it's slower than my XT used to be back in the 80s
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I just don't like that it downloads all my gmail box and tries to index it and eats loads of CPU time and when you search for things it returns the same email multiple times, etc, etc, etc
<freckle> Azelphur: Gwibber is the worst twitter client I have ever seen
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: well, yes. use gmail's web interface to access gmail :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I want my work mail to be in a Gmail-like interface, but that's not possible :(
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, The other thing is that Work basically forced us to pick between i) crappy OWA or ii) Crappy outlook when they previously supported IMAP
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I guess the issue is I only had web/outlook to compare with and evo was much faster, I've always had issues with thunderbird,  claws is pretty rapid though
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Doesn't Evolution's new MAPI stuff work?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, We have OWA. Stuck behind a special anal-restriction gateway.
<MartijnVdS> We have IMAP for mail, and OWA/MAPI for calendaring (and secondary mail.. *sigh*)
<davmor2> freckle: mixture I have a home server, gmail, canonical, and some others
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, There's thing thing called Intelligent Application Gateway in the way ; only the XMLRPC calls work, and only through that - I think you need certain client certificates to get past it that only Outlook has
<freckle> davmor2: thanks just interested for reference. I have 4 gmail accounts on my Nexus One and it works well
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: eww.. so not even activesync (phones)?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Oh, no, that works
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, But no ActiveSync adapter for a real email client that I'm aware of
<davmor2> awilkins: if you don't get on with evo try claws it's come a long way in a short time
<awilkins> There is an IMAP server but only on the internal network - so you have to use our excretional VPN if you want to use it from home.
<Azelphur> yea, I'm done with twitter :p
<Azelphur> so broken as to be unbelievable
<Azelphur> god alone knows how so many apps manage to successfully integrate with it
<danfish> awilkins: unless your on an android phone, then it works rather well
<davmor2> Azelphur: works for me
<awilkins> danfish, IMAP works for NHS mail on Android?
<awilkins> danfish, Or is that the ActiveSync adapter?
<screen-x> Azelphur: what's nuts is that twitter (which I don't care about) use oauth, and I'd be fine using basic auth, whereas my bank (which I do care about) still use form based auth :(
<Azelphur> davmor2: how do you do it? the twitter library in the repo is broken because twitter kindly changed their auth method to block any unupdated app
<danfish> ah, no, the activesync adapter
<Azelphur> davmor2: and the RSS feed doesn't work :(
<danfish> I use thunderbird when inside the net
<awilkins> danfish, I've got it working on my N900 just fine but that's ActiveSync - and it's one of the closed-source bits AFAIK
<Azelphur> screen-x: xD
<danfish> awilkins: yeh - I had a look at the mail app source in android and that bit's very GPL unfriendly
<davmor2> Azelphur: What version of Ubuntu are you on I'm on Maverick there was an update that fixed it ages ago
<screen-x> though oauth isn't the best, as its application keys are rather anti open source.
<Azelphur> I'm on maverick too
<awilkins> I did look at trying to find some OSS activesync code but had no luck.
<Azelphur> davmor2: I always get 401 unauthorized with my python script
<davmor2> Azelphur: ah sorry your python script won't work python-twitter doesn't use oauth you need to use a different python plugin for it to work in python
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> is it in the repo?
<danfish> supposedly android and any mobile device without whole disk encryption was supposed to be blocked since 1/12/10...but it's not happened
<davmor2> Azelphur: I misunderstood and thought you were using gwibber
<screen-x> Azelphur: I've been using http://mike.verdone.ca/twitter/
<davmor2> Azelphur: let me have a quick dig for you
<Azelphur> ok :)
<Azelphur> I just want to pull my twitter feed, don't need to post or anything
<screen-x> Azelphur: whereas I do it the other way round, I use that for posts only, to notify me of various things.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/August%202010/2010-08-18-141358_3840x1200_scrot.png is what I use it for
<screen-x> If I don't get any messages, then I can assume that either all systems are fine, or twitter is down, or both :)
<MartijnVdS> am I the only one with so many open windows that the background is invisible? :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: nope
<awilkins> Nope
<screen-x> but a terminal in the middle of that would look rather cool
<davmor2> Azelphur: http://lapin-blanc.net/26/05/2009/twisted-python-twitter-oauth/ that might point you in the right direction
<screen-x> I couldn't be a designer, I really don't care if its 1.4 or 1.5em
<Azelphur> davmor2: ty
<Azelphur> that's interesting, T-Mobile just phoned me up and told me that their changes to the fair usage policy only applies to the iphone
<freckle> Azelphur: is that in response to your querying it with them?
<Azelphur> freckle: no that's in response to phoning up and cancelling my contract
<Azelphur> :P
<freckle> hmm shall tweet them and see if they confirm it to me
<Azelphur> the slashdot and pcpro articles say otherwise
<Azelphur> but the t-mobile representative assured me I'm still on 3GB
<Azelphur> she also kept on saying UNLIMITED 3GB which was funny
<screen-x> hmmm
<kazade> Azelphur, how did you not pick her up on that? :)
<Azelphur> I did, I said the two terms where contradictory
<Azelphur> she repeated herself a few times
<Azelphur> then we finally got to unlimited browsing, 3gb downloads
<kazade> lol
<Azelphur> (I wonder if that means if I pipe everything through port 80 they won't charge me)
<awilkins> So the Jesusfone gets it's wings clipped but everything else still gets to fly as much as before?
<freckle> there is no such thing as UNLIMITED  period. It is at the very least limited by the capabilities of the interface
<Azelphur> haha
<screen-x> Azelphur: I was reading about this, they are trying to separate browsing from downloads, which makes zero sense.
<screen-x> So how did that html page appear in my phone, magic?
<awilkins> That's what they are counting on, I suspect
<freckle> lets see what @TmobileUKhelp have to say
<awilkins> They can get away with claiming that magic pixies do it to most of the population
<directhex> file extension filtering! they won't bill for .htm or .html
<Azelphur> freckle: yea
<directhex> or .aspx, but will bill for .php #evil
<awilkins> Net Neutrality!!!!!
<Azelphur> I should have pressed and said browsing is a download
<Azelphur> >.<
<freckle> Giff gaff have all you can eat as long as it is not streaming video. So I guess you download it first then watch it
<screen-x> freckle: though not many video providers are up for that
<freckle> screen-x: true, was trying to highlight the stupidity of the clause
<Azelphur> freckle: yea I've been through loads of pages, none of them mention iphone
<screen-x> freckle: yeah, it is pretty stupid
<Azelphur> so I'd be interested on the response from twitter :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: your other alternative would be to setup python-oauth to do the authentication for you then python-twitter to do the api calls for you
<Azelphur> davmor2: fun
<freckle> I have seen a T-Mobile lawyer in action on a tech conf panel... they don't have a clue about how to handle data usage and it's growth... that goes for most of the UK networks too.
<screen-x> I should probably setup an mqtt server or something, probably be easier that twitter/oauth
<davmor2> Azelphur: You should be able to add it to your current script and iirc from linux format the oauth code is only like a line or so long
<Azelphur> freckle: it's not the only reason I'm leaving them anyway, really slow download speeds (even with a 5 bar HSDPA connection), Charging me for an unlock code for my own phone, that sort of thing :(
<Azelphur> davmor2: do you know why the twitter RSS feed doesn't work? that would be easiest to make work
<Azelphur> as I already have loads of RSS feed stuff in my conky setup
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<freckle> Azelphur: you should have bought phone unlocked. Almost always cheaper on a 24 month deak and usually on 18 month too
<davmor2> Azelphur: because you're using a client so it need to authenticate as I understand it
<Azelphur> freckle: I ebay'd it and as I inteded to use t-mobile at the time (because of their amazing, now gone 3GB cap). My G2 I unlocked myself with hax :D
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, I was trying it in chrome it asked for user and pass which I provided then nothing :(
<freckle> As I understand it there is no cap on the T-Mobile FUP it just limits your speeds for the rest of the billing period.
<Azelphur> yea
<davmor2> Azelphur: works in liferea
<Azelphur> freckle: that was the other thing she said, I asked what happens when you hit the 3GB...she said "Nothing"
<freckle> the ISP I work does rate limiting if hit your allowance
<Azelphur> "We never send any letters we never charge anyone we're the only one that doesn't!"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: "You will start to feel guilty"
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> davmor2: I just tried it in firefox, lol
<Azelphur> <error code="53">Basic authentication is not supported</error>
<Azelphur> >.<
<davmor2> Azelphur: There's your answer then python-oauth it is ;)
<freckle> I have only used 2GB of data in the last 6 months on T-Mobile.... mostly phone is on WiFi at home or work
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Twitter switched that off.. you can only use oauth
<Azelphur> yay for having an RSS feed that doesn't work with 99% of feed readers including firefox, and blocking all your API access
<Azelphur> what an annoying service
<Azelphur> freckle: I tether :)
<freckle> I rarely tether... can't stand 3G speed on my netbook
<MartijnVdS> my laptop has a built-in 3G bit
<davmor2> Azelphur: for me I just went to twitter.com logged in and clicked on the rss link it opened in liferea as that is my default setup and works fine :(
<Azelphur> davmor2: :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: are you using an old rss link?
<MartijnVdS> so I got a pay-as-you-go Vodafone SIM that has a "â¬2,50/day" charge for internet (but only on days that you actually use it on)
<Azelphur> davmor2: nope, clicking the button in my profile
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do you have your tweets protected?
<davmor2> Azelphur: could just be that you have a busted ass twitter feed?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: no idea what that is :)
<Azelphur> davmor2: *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you can have public tweets (everyone can read them)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or private ones (nobody but your followers can read them)
<Azelphur> yea I believe mines public
<AlanBell> o/
<popey> Laney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ubuntu-uk.org/planet
<Azelphur> davmor2: that twitter tool is prefect :D
<Azelphur> I just run the "twitter" command to get pretty much what I want on my wallpaper \o/
<davmor2> Azelphur: Yay!
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski as he forgot too earlier, hope you's is better
<bigcalm> That bus went past so fast my office shook. Naughty bus
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's what happens when you use a bus shelter for an office though?
<bigcalm> ;)
<DJones> davmor2: yeah, but does he work from home
<davmor2> DJones: are you trying to say that bigcalm lives in a bus shelter?
<DJones> davmor2: You saw through the comment :)
<MartijnVdS> harsh!
<bigcalm> Oi
<screen-x> hmm, I have a vmware disk image that is in 2GB chunks :( can I convert that to a kvm raw image with qemu-img ? it doesn't mention chunked images in the man page
<Laney> popey: ta
<screen-x> there appears to be a version of vmware converter for linux, will try that
<danfish> AlanBell: how was your meeting, if I may ask?
<Azelphur> freckle: anything from t-mobile yet? :P
<freckle> no, they don't seem to be very active on twitter today
<Azelphur> hehe
<freckle> aha see www.t-mobile.co.uk/datachanges
<diplo> I read up on that a little
<diplo> It seems they won't charge you for web browsing/emails at all, the tariff is only going to affect file downloading and streaming
<freckle> and only new customers
<Azelphur> heh, so that's different again to what I was told on the phone :S
<freckle> Azelphur: I don't trust anything the droid on the phone says
<Azelphur> hehe
<freckle> Azelphur: ask them to put it in writing
<Azelphur> I've switched anyway, I had a number of reasons
<freckle> ok
<freckle> who did you switch too?
<Azelphur> 3
<freckle> k
 * bigcalm notices the change is only for new customers - time to change 3g watchdog back again
<freckle> bigcalm: or till your contract period ends
<bigcalm> Aye
<bigcalm> Contract was renewed in December for another 18 months
<freckle> so now sitting on a tariff for years to hold the network to ransom
<freckle> /s/now/no
<bigcalm> I'm happy with the tarrif I have. Though I don't go anywhere near the 1gb monthly allowance
<Azelphur> at best the 500mb thing is a complete PR disaster and a shambles, then you've got the crappy download speeds (5 bars hsdpa gets me 198/156kbps where as my brother on 3 gets more like 10 times that, they also tried to charge me Â£15 to unlock my old phone so I could give it to my brother :/
<Azelphur> and the coverage is crap too, when I go to my cousins in hive I get no signal
<freckle> they are obviously targetting the heavy video users.
<Azelphur> \o/
<freckle> I read somewhere it will impact ~ 3% of users
<bigcalm> freckle: I use wifi where ever I can as the network speed isn't great
<Azelphur> that's what they always say :)
<MartijnVdS> hmm 7.2 mbit
<freckle> bigcalm: me too as most of the time in work or at home
<bigcalm> One in the same for me :S
<freckle> Azelphur: that's how people always respond :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> freckle: they must be loosing people over this though, they've tried really hard to keep me
<Azelphur> and they keep spouting different stories at me
<freckle> bigcalm: in that case I get much faster speeds to you when at work :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> What's your connection at work?
<freckle> Azelphur: 3 is the only one offering no usage limit... they are desperate for customers
<Azelphur> I'm on 3's 1GB plan, I'm should be ok in 1GB
<freckle> bigcalm: we are an ISP . I think we have 2Gbps out of this office
 * popey hugs 10GB/mo
<Azelphur> I like the way they made the decision to not do the fair usage policy crap
<Azelphur> it's obvious, clearly stated, and that's fine with me
<bigcalm> freckle: you bar steward
<popey> only thing i want to get now is sharing 3g over wifi on my iphone and I'm settled
<dwatkins> popey: I started off with that, then had to switch to unlimited bandwidth because we use 50 GB/mo
<Azelphur> popey: I have that built into the OS ;)
 * Azelphur runs
<popey> i know
<bigcalm> freckle: an ISP in Shropshire?
<freckle> yeah
<popey> t-mobile have gone back on their changes
<dwatkins> oh wait, you get that with you phone, popey? wow
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> popey: oh, so they made the changes and then when customers left in waves they stopped?
<freckle> www.enta.net
<Azelphur> I've been given so many different stories about it so far
<popey> "There will be no change to the data packages for existing customers  for the duration of their contract and we apologise for any confusion caused. The revision to the Fair Use Policy is designed to ensure an improved quality of service for all mobile internet users.""
<dwatkins> which mobile provider, popey? and have you considered jailbreaking to do tethering?
<popey> http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=home&cat=DATA_CHANGES
<popey> dwatkins: orange
<popey> dwatkins: i have considered it
<Azelphur> yea, I saw that too :)
<dwatkins> impressive, I will look into this, as I have an iPhone
<Azelphur> popey: yet a mere 20 minutes ago I had a t-mobile rep call me to try and keep me as a customer, she stated that it was only affecting iphone users
<freckle> Azelphur: she is obviously on commission..
<shauno> I don't believe tethering requires jailbreaking.  you can upload a slightly revised carrier settings file to the stock firmware
<popey> shauno: not tethering, wifi sharing
<Azelphur> then she said you still have your 3GB allowance, and to check the t-mobile website terms and conditions, which say I have 1GB :S
<dwatkins> what is the difference between tethering and wifi sharing, I thought they were the same thing
<Azelphur> so yea, very confusing and shambles-ish from t-mobile
<shauno> rumours today that's due in the next point release.  but as always, we won't know until they do a song and a dance on stage :/
<popey> dwatkins: tether is via a cable
<dwatkins> ahhhh, thanks popey
<freckle> dwatkins: tethering usually means a cable... but it's a mute point as far as the networks go
<popey> shauno: its in the verizon firmware, so i guess unless they keep separate firmwares for cdma and umts phones, it may be
<dwatkins> yeah, you're still using the network for data from a separate device
<popey> s/mute/moot/
<ball> Over here I hear a lot of people use "tether" to mean connecting a device (e.g. laptop) through a mobile phone, whether or not that connection is wired.
<dwatkins> When I still had my Android phone, it was really handy when we were sat waiting for a table at a restaurant or something to be able to turn it on and we'd both get our laptops out and carry on as if we were at home
<popey> ball: they're wrong :)
<shauno> tether can be a wire or bluetooth.  it usually just means using your phone as a modem
<ball> popey: Also, they spell funny.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it can even be wifi :)
<popey> indeed!
<shauno> the wifi bit is a bit odd because you can have multiple clients, which isn't usually what people mean by tether
<ball> My phone works as a CSD modem, but I can't afford a laptop anyway.
<shauno> I can use mine via bt, but I don't, because my little usb modem has a much better data plan
<AlanBell> danfish: very encouraging
<dwatkins> I have a vodafone USB modem, but it's pay-as-you-go
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to get a mifi device, shauno - 5 GB a month might be enough
<shauno> (which irks me no end.  20Gb on a usb stick is 20eur, 2Gb on a phone is 60eur, yet they're both 3G thru the same telco)
<ball> I tried a "Cricket" modem, but it didn't work with my OS.
<freckle> either way the networks don't like it as it limits their ability to extract cash from you
<ball> ...I wonder if it would have worked with Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> that sounds cheap compared to what I get with vodafone in the uk, shauno
<ball> brb
<dwatkins> Three do the device for a contract of 16 pounds a month with lets you use 5 GB of data
<dwatkins> it's 1 pound per gigabyte if you go up to 15
<danfish> AlanBell: excellent - lets hope actions follow
<dwatkins> no, I lie, 23.03 GBP
<dwatkins> silly three
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> danfish: things are moving at the highest level
<AlanBell> czajkowski: how was your day?
<czajkowski> grand
<czajkowski> BETT is however MASSIVE very busy and VERY HOT!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ayup me suck
<czajkowski> MooDoo: lovely
<ball> Mobile broadband here is usually US$ 60/month (UKP 38.20)
<MartijnVdS> For the highest speeds that's true here as well (â¬50ish)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: sorry typo meant to be me duck :)
<czajkowski> :S
<popey> shauno: oooooo http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/personal_wifi_hotspots_reportedly_coming_to_all_ip.php
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nottingham slang
<MartijnVdS> But if you don't care about 7.2mbit, you can get â¬10 plans
<czajkowski> odd ball
<shauno> I think my dongle pricing is pretty fantastic.  I just can't get my head around paying the same isp 1eur/GB thru the dongle and 30eur/GB thru the phone.
<MartijnVdS> ball: or even pay-as-you-go "plans"
<MooDoo> czajkowski: thanks :)
<ball> That's 38 quid for up to 5 Gbytes
<ball> MartijnVdS: pay-as-you-go is about the same price, unless you get the 350 Mbyte plan
<AlanBell> and the typo of the week award goes to ...
<MartijnVdS> hah! 10/10 http://test-ipv6.com/
<bigcalm> 7/10 on ipv4 :S
 * ball tries it
<ball> "We don't quite understand these results."
<MartijnVdS> wow
<ball> 0/10
<MartijnVdS> ball: running noscript, or some proxy/blocking stuff?
<ball> ...clicked reload and got 7/10
<shauno> unhandled exception: your internet is so broken you can't read this error :p
 * ball shrugs
<screen-x> apologies if this has been mentioned, but the vzw iphone has "wifi sharing" so shouldn't take long to make it into an update.
<ball> 7/10 for IPv4
<ball> 0/10 for IPv6
 * MartijnVdS has 10/10 + 10/10 :)
<shauno> xs4all?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes
<shauno> git
<MartijnVdS> shauno: meh, I just work there :P
<bigcalm> VirginMedia have no intention of going with ipv6 that I can see
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: most big ISPs don't
<ball> bigcalm: Perhaps they own a sufficient pool of IPv4
<ball> ...addresses.
<shauno> that appears to be UPC's plan too.  wait until it's actually causing problems.
<MartijnVdS> ball: that's all very nice.. until content providers run out of v4 space and start hosting new sites on v6-only
<ball> They'll burn that bridge when they come to it ;-)
<shauno> I think the overall plan is to ignore it until consumers notice they're being NAT'd.  and then panic.
<freckle> shauno: most home users don't care if they are double nat'd
 * screen-x is not most users
<screen-x> freckle: do you have some kind of web interface for customers to setup portforwards?
<screen-x> I guess there would be fights over port 80..
<freckle> screen-x: huh?
<freckle> oh right... we have not implemented any translation yet
<screen-x> freckle: well, if customers are double-natted, they need some way of making connections to there home boxes, so do you have a web interface where they can setup portforwards?
<bigcalm> That's only for incoming connections
<shauno> that's the problem.  enough people don't need to connect home, that they can safely ignore 'us'
<screen-x> shauno:  :(
<freckle> I have no idea how our NOC team are going to do it...but it will probably start off with dual stack
<screen-x> shauno: tunnel to a VPS then :(
<freckle> I know the CPE vendors are scratching their heads on how to stop unwanted access on pure IPv6 home users...
<screen-x> freckle: ?
<screen-x> unwanted access?
<bigcalm> Somewhat surprised that my router doesn't do ipv6 and it's a modern router
<freckle> so a home user gets only a IPv6 subnet assigned an no IPv4. Who is responsible to firewall/
<freckle> every single connected device has a routable address
<screen-x> freckle: the CPE should have a default firewall that only allows outgoing connections, easy. Same as NAT
<screen-x> then users can add allow rules if they want to.
<freckle> screen-x: Netgear don't think it is easy... saw a video with their CTO on the panel
<freckle> screen-x: you have a very inflated opinion of the average user...
<screen-x> freckle: the average user won't add rules, and won't know the firewall is even there.
<freckle> the average user doesn't care about IP4 or IP6 they just want to plug it in and it works
<freckle> screen-x: exactly
<ball> The average user, sadly, struggles to get the cable in the right hole.
<ball> (at least, the ones I meet do)
<screen-x> so security wise ipv6 is no more difficult than ipv4 with nat.
<ball> Spoke to a lady the other day on the phone who couldn't find the screen on her laptop.
<screen-x> haha
<ball> User: "Why does it say 'Owner: Locked'?"
<freckle> so how do you bring the benefits of IPv6 to a non-technical and apathetic user base?
<ball> Me: "Have you tried clicking on the icon in the middle of the screen?"
<ball> User: "What's an icon?"
<freckle> screen-x: until they want to access their fridge remotely
<ball> Me: "Little square picture"
<ball> User: "I can't find the screen though"
<shauno> upnp & default drop.  they'll be no worse off than they are now
<ball> Me: "It's the flat thing you're looking at... the place where it said "Owner: locked"
<ball> User: "Is that by the A.L.T. key?"
<screen-x> shauno: yeah, I was thinking some sort of upnp style thing.
<ball> Me: "Perhaps you should return the equipment"
<screen-x> ball: I'd be convinced someone was having a laugh, I wouldn't be able to take the call seriously.
<ball> This is an honest transcript.
<DJones> ball: The nearest I've heard ti that was telling somebody to look on their desktop for an icon & they replied that all that was on the desk was a keyboard, monitor & mouse
<shauno> screen-x: it tends to get a bad rap, but it seems to work for me fine
<ball> screen-x: Seriously, poor woman was getting genuinely angry>
<screen-x> shauno: its blinking scary, the gnome vnc server will auto open ports if upnp is available!
<ball> screen-x: eww
<screen-x> shauno: so I turn it off, but I can see something like that being useful for fridge access
<shauno> my favourite call lately was a customer who called in with a large peice of equipment  (a large box that draws 1.6 megawatts off the line).  he went all thru the name / contact / serial number capture while neglecting to mention that he was calling because it was on fire
<BigRedS> haha!
<dogmatic69> lmao
<shauno> genuinely threw me that he didn't think that was important enough to mention a little earlier
<DJones> shauno: You work for the fire brigade?
<shauno> nope
<DJones> You'd think 999 would be the number to ring
<BigRedS> that is a reasonable point, what sort of an emergency response do you provide?
<shauno> it's a really big UPS. dropping the power can be very, very useful in such situations
<BigRedS> "I'll get a fire extinguisher couriered over to you immediately"
<dogmatic69> next day express
<shauno> if they weren't clever enough to hook up an EPO, turning the things off is overly complex.
<ball> shauno: Was the load still up? ;-)
<shauno> of course :)
<ball> shauno: win! :-)
<screen-x> epo?
<shauno> a big red button
<screen-x> emergency power off?
<shauno> that's the one
<screen-x> ahh
<screen-x> so how did this situation end?
<shauno> got the power dropped
<shauno> it's an oddly normal thing to get called about.  I've had "we need to turn this off before they use an axe to do so" a few times
<screen-x> so did they put the fire out, and reconnect power before the batteries ran out? or did they have to shut the load down?
<shauno> the load would have gone down with the ups.  it's not too graceful when there's firemen waiting
<MartijnVdS> \o dutchie @ twitter :)
<ball> shauno: Did you have him hit the EPO?
<dutchie> heh
 * dutchie blames issyl0 
<shauno> ball, there wasn't one fitted.  that's why they had to call
<ball> shauno: Oopsie.
 * dutchie ubuntufies new lappy
<issyl0> dutchie: ...?
<ball> shauno: Does the UPS get to notify the load at least that it's pulling the rug out?
<popey> dutchie: what you get?
<shauno> so you get them to pull out the terminal block where the epo is meant to connect to.  it's a normally-closed loop, so you do the same thing
<dutchie> issyl0: for making me follow MartijnVdS
<dutchie> popey: thinkpad t61, exactly the same as the beertop it is replacing :)
<issyl0> dutchie: ohhhh.
<issyl0> dutchie: surely that's not a bad thing?
<dutchie> issyl0: course not
<screen-x> issyl0: blame is not always negative; see git
<dutchie> and svn before it
<shauno> ball: if it's tripped that way, no.  if you shut it down thru software, yes.  depends how long you've got to wait
<issyl0> Heh.
 * dutchie needs to remember to pick up pins 
<ball> shauno: I suppose fire is an incentive to expedite the shutdown.
<screen-x> shauno: so do you work for a ups vendor?
<shauno> I don't make that call.  lawyers terrify me :)
<shauno> screen-x: sorta
<shauno> my employer owns a couple of big brands
<ball> My employer brews his own beer.
<bigcalm> Anybody here put dd-wrt onto a linksys wrt320n ?
<KrisDouglas> Hello, does anyone know of the command you issue which sends out dns and hostname information over the network
<KrisDouglas> I am no expert, but I ran the command, and the hostnames I had entered into my /etc/hosts worked on other machines on the net.
<popey> "sends out" ?
<KrisDouglas> yeah
<KrisDouglas> It's hard to explain
<directhex> KrisDouglas, on your local network?
<dwatkins> 'deploy'?
<KrisDouglas> it seems to talk to the DHCP on the router
<KrisDouglas> yeah, local network
<directhex> KrisDouglas, okay. you can use mdns to announce your machine's hostname to other mdns-aware kit. or run your own dns server
<directhex> or use samba to do the equivalent to mdns using microsoft's wins protocol
<KrisDouglas> oooh, thank you
<KrisDouglas> that has jogged my memory
<KrisDouglas> :)
<KrisDouglas> lets see if this works
<KrisDouglas> Thanks directhex it's all working pefectly now. I remembered I had to install avahi
<KrisDouglas> I need a personal wiki :P:
<directhex> yeah, avahi is an mdns server
<directhex> KrisDouglas, tomboy, zim, gnote
<KrisDouglas> directhex: I use tomboy :)
<directhex> KrisDouglas, so take notes in it! it has a search function...
<KrisDouglas> directhex: I just like the whole wiki-of-my-brain idea.
<KrisDouglas> :)
<mfraz74> G.a
<mfraz74> Glad I got my HP server when I did as everywhere seems to be out of stock now
<andylockran> ps axu shows a program I'm running as STAT = S
<andylockran> what does that mean?
 * bigcalm_ sits still
<andylockran> how to poke it to move again?
<jpds> man ps, says a lot about STAT.
<andylockran> Proces State Codes
<andylockran> implies it's waiting for an event to complete
<andylockran> any idea how to find out what the event is
<andylockran> no logs written since 17:39
<Azelphur> if a computer doesn't display anything, no bios beeps, and I've tried it on 2 different monitors. It's time to replace the graphics card right?
<AlanBell> KrisDouglas: I use a blog and google, so I search for things, find a useful answer, then realise it was me that wrote it
<ball> Azelphur: Probably not.
<jacobw> Is a BIOS beep a function of the graphics card?
<KrisDouglas> AlanBell: Awesome.
<KrisDouglas> jacobw: if there is something wrong with the card then it can beep.
<Azelphur> what should I do then?
<popey> jacobw: no, the mobo/bios
<jacobw> Yeah :)
<ball> Azelphur: Does it beep if you boot without the graphics card?
<ball> (or with a different card fitted?
<ball> )
<popey> they usually beep if no VGA card is present
<KrisDouglas> It could the the bios chip is off
<KrisDouglas> usually if the ram is off the system beeps
<KrisDouglas> brb
<KrisDouglas> exit
<directhex> beeeeep bibibip
<Azelphur> ball it's integrated
<ball> Azelphur: Time for a new mainboard (and perhaps microprocessor) then.
<ball> Azelphur: Have you tried with a different PSU though?
<KrisDouglas> exit
<Azelphur> lol or not, a 250W PSU is...not going to power my 8800GT
<Azelphur> ball: it powers on, fans and everything
<Azelphur> just no display
<ball> Azelphur: Have you tried with a different PSU?
<Azelphur> ball no
<ball> Azelphur: Might be worth a shot if you can borrow one, just to rule that out.
<Azelphur> but if the PSU was dead wouldn't it be not powering the mobo
<ball> Azelphur: depends.  You could be getting some of the output Voltages without others, causing odd results.
<ball> Personally I think your motherboard's shot.
<Azelphur> yea, I'm starting to think this is a bit of a throwout machine
<Azelphur> the psu is crap (250w) the mobo is probably dead, the CPU is some shitty celeron
<Azelphur> it's not really worth saving
 * danfish starts cooking a rabbit vindaloo
<awilkins> So the T-mobile bandwidth thing only applies to new accounts and upgraders .... Riiiight, nothing to do with UK contact law allowing you to get out of your contract free if the terms change - free smartphone ... Oops.
<awilkins> I wonder how many people called up to cancel.
<screen-x> evening :)
<awilkins> Evening. Abusing my Vodafone 3G connection by using it.
<screen-x> awilkins: sticking it to the man, eh?
<awilkins> Sometimes I tether.
<danfish> unless you are a large corporation with lawyers on tap, UK corporate law is a waste of oxygen
<screen-x> and trees
<ali1234> awilkins: have you seen the way t-mobile sells bandwidth?
<ali1234> they sell it as a 1 month booster
<ali1234> you can choose a different 1 each month
<ali1234> it's an add on to your contract
<ali1234> so if they change all the boosters 1 month, it doesn't affect the contract at all
<awilkins> ooooh. Naughty.
<ali1234> so they can effectively change it any time they want
<kvarley> I have a gigabyte motherboard, what application can I use in ubuntu to control the fan speed of the fans in my case?
<ali1234> i mean it's good because if i'm going abroad for 1 month i can change the booster to a roaming calls package instead of internet
<ali1234> but it's bad cos they can change all the boosters any time they want
<MooDoo> kvarley: this might help?  might not - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=846480
<ali1234> i'm not bothered at this point anyway - cos i only pay Â£10 a month - it's still the best value
<screen-x> I pay that on O2, for my 500mb.
<ali1234> yeah but O2 sucks
<awilkins> Â£15 here, but only becuse I asked for a PAC code.
<ali1234> also, what free phone did you get for your Â£10/month?
<screen-x> ali1234: sim only
<awilkins> upgrading? Ask for a PAC code.
<ali1234> i got a 5800 and 1 year of "comes with music"
<screen-x> I think sim only is better :p
<awilkins> Someone calls you back in 2 days and offers you a sweetheart deal.
<ali1234> on t-mobile you don't have to go through hoops like that. i always just ask them for the deal and they give it to me
<ali1234> heh :)
<awilkins> Only ever upgraded phone once.
<ali1234> but this time around it was cheapest to go with the free phone and new contract, and i doubt you can get cheaper and still have internet included...
<awilkins> Only HAD  a mobile for 6 years and I'm 36.
<mfraz74> awilkins: Port Authorisation Code Code?
<awilkins> oh dang, an agent of the department of redundancy department
<Darael> awilkins: That's the Redundant Department of Redundancy Department to you! :P
<awilkins> Didn't have a redundant connection though.
<awilkins> Shoping time!
<awilkins> /me wants pizza
<suprengr> o?
<suprengr> o/
<Darael> "o?"?  Scratching your head with a disembodied arm?  Am I thinking about this too much?
<suprengr> Darael:  a good description in view of...
<suprengr> for what it's worth: Three have just up'd my Â£15/month 'account for VAT increase to Â£15.99 [anyone else care to do their maths for them?]
<suprengr> [mobile gÂ£ dongle]
<suprengr> gÂ£ is my li'l ol' petname for for 3g
 * suprengr thinks - time to clean keyboard again!
<Darael> ...what's the increase again?
<suprengr> Darael: 99p on Â£15
<Darael> Yeah, I gathered, my brain wasn't working.
<suprengr> simple maths for 2.5% VAT increase... for Â£100 before increase; Â£102.10 after increase [the Â£100 already includes VAT in case of confusiion]
 * Darael are to sleepy to do maths.  This is saying something.
<suprengr> ...so Three think my Â£15 contract is actually a Â£45 [approx] contract?!  ;(
 * suprengr considers sending Three a copy of song "If I Only Had a Brain" :)
<bigcalm> Odd thing: content menus appear just fine, but the submenus take a while to respond and appear
<bigcalm> Thought it was limited to chrome, but it's happening in xchat as well
<screen-x> bigcalm: context menus?
<bigcalm> screen-x: right click on something and you usually get a context menu
<screen-x> as opposed to content menus..
<bigcalm> Unless you are using a mac and have no right mouse button
<bigcalm> Another name for the same thing :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: most macs support multiple mouse buttons now..
<bigcalm> Context as they relate to the thing you are hovering over
<screen-x> context submenus are a little slow in xchat for me.
<bigcalm> screen-x: I've seen mac users try to come to terms with a pc mouse; clicking both buttons at the same time
<screen-x> hmm
<bigcalm> That was a few years ago
<bigcalm> I'm sure things have moved on by now
<screen-x> As the new macs dont really have physical mouse buttons, you have to tell it in software to interpret clicks in a certain area as a secondary click.
<awilkins> Ah yes, the button is in fact, a touchpad
<screen-x> ._.
<DJones> ok, who spoke
<bigcalm> You did
<czajkowski> âââââââââ
<czajkowski> ââââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â ââ ââ â
<czajkowski> â âââ ââ
<DJones> Oi!
<screen-x> evening cz :)
<czajkowski> DJones: oi oi
 * bigcalm fishes out an after 8 mint
<DJones> Evening czajkowski
<czajkowski> how's folks ?
<screen-x> ok thanks czajkowski, how are you?
<screen-x> you were ill recently?
<daubers> Woot!
<daubers> Finally beaten OpenVPN into submission
<screen-x> daubers: whatya done to it?
<czajkowski> screen-x: grand bit tired from today, so just catching up on mail and an early night me thinks
<daubers> screen-x: After mucking around with a load of rubbishy zyxel routers, I ended up bringing the test server home, so can access the work network from home and the home network from work :)
<daubers> just need to reconfigure the IPs and the routes and it can go into the DC happily now
<screen-x> :)
 * daubers makes some notes
<dogmatic69> hi all
<dogmatic69> got me an arduino board today \o/
<screen-x> evening dogmatic69.. sounds fun :)
<dogmatic69> cant use it because apt-get has the old version :/
<screen-x> ppa?
<dogmatic69> and ppa aint working
<screen-x> :(
<dogmatic69> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:arduino-ubuntu-team/ppa
<dogmatic69> look good?
<screen-x> if that ppa exists..
<dogmatic69> tut said sudo add-apt-repository ppa:arduino-ubuntu-team but ubuntu says with /ppa at the end
<dogmatic69> done both
<dogmatic69> https://launchpad.net/~arduino-ubuntu-team/+archive/ppa
<screen-x> ppa:arduino-ubuntu-team/ppa is correct
<screen-x> do you get an error when adding it?
<dogmatic69> anyhow ppa looks like 0018 which is what i got
<dogmatic69> can i show the hashes and stuff or is that not good?
<screen-x> ?
<dogmatic69> Executing: gpg --ignore-time-conflict --no-options --no-default-keyring --secret-keyring /etc/apt/secring.gpg --trustdb-name /etc/apt/trustdb.gpg --keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --primary-keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv {hash}
<dogmatic69> idk if the stuff is security related :D, dont wanna paste some things that will get me hacked
<dogmatic69> gpg: requesting key 97A63961 from hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
<dogmatic69> gpg: key 97A63961: "Launchpad PPA" not changed
<dogmatic69> then total 1, unchanged 1
<dogmatic69> sudo apt-get update === 'W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/arduino-ubuntu-team/ppa/ubuntu/dists/maverick/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found'
<dogmatic69> looks like its an old version anyhow
<dogmatic69> so now ive downloaded http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software
<dogmatic69> the 0022 32 bit version
<dogmatic69> got no clue what to do with it, im thinking install 0018 and replace the files with the download
<screen-x> dogmatic69: looks like they dont have mavereick packages
<dogmatic69> ah
<screen-x> could try the lucid packages
<dogmatic69> how do i do that?
<screen-x> edit the file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d that add-apt-repository created, and change it from maverick to lucid
<screen-x> then apt-get update.
<Azelphur> anyone know how to get grep to only print out the captured part of a regex? (the part inside the bracets)
<screen-x> grep -o
<Azelphur> screen-x: closer, that's captured the whole expression rather than just the stuff in bracets though
<Azelphur> I want the first regex group returned, rather than the entire area matched
<daubers> dogmatic69: You can just download it off the arduino website
<daubers> it's a self contained thing
<screen-x> Azelphur: adjust your regex so it only matches the stuff in the backets?
<dogmatic69> daubers: i got that now, but where to put it and how to run it?
<daubers> dogmatic69: I keep the one from the website in a folder called Apps in my home folder, so just cd /home/matt/Apps/arduino-xx and then ./arduino
<dogmatic69> ah, let me try
<Azelphur> screen-x: that's called "knowing the output of the program before I run it" which would defeat the objective :P
<daubers> dogmatic69: You may need to install java if it's not already installed
<dogmatic69> got java, minecraft++
<dogmatic69> :D
<daubers> :)
<screen-x> Azelphur: paste an example string, and describe what you want to match
<Azelphur> CPU Temperature:    +46.0Â°C  (high = +60.0Â°C, crit = +75.0Â°C)
<dogmatic69> i can see minecraft and arduino taking about 26h of my day
<Azelphur> I only want the 46.0
<dogmatic69> if only work would stop bothering me
<Azelphur> ^CPU Temperature:    \+(\d+\.\d+) matches it
<Azelphur> but I need grep to return the group rather than the matched line or full string
<screen-x> Azelphur: resorted to sed sed 's/^.*:\s*\(+[0-9\.]*.\?C\).*$/\1/'
<AlanBell> czajkowski: going up early tomorrow?
<Azelphur> screen-x: huh?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not sure need to look up times
<screen-x> oops, didnt mean to repeat sed.
<czajkowski> was there a long day today
<AlanBell> it is an exhausting event
<czajkowski> it was boiling hot in there today
<AlanBell> yeah, always is
<AlanBell> anyone else in the Earls Court Olympia area tomorrow?
<screen-x> Azelphur: that sed expression will extract just the +46.0degC from the line.
<Azelphur> screen-x: how do I use it? I tried sensors | sed ... and got nothing
<czajkowski> AlanBell: queues for lunch today were a lot crazy
<Craig_Dem> Really need to upgrade from the homehub v1 :/
<Azelphur> screen-x: actually correction, it truncated some random stuff
<Azelphur> but nothing like what I want :s
<screen-x> Azelphur: this was my test : hugh@hugh-desktop:~$ echo "CPU Temperature: +46.0Â°C (high = +60.0Â°C, crit = +75.0Â°C)" | sed 's/^.*:\s*\(+[0-9\.]*.\?C\).*$/\1/'
<screen-x> which returns "+46.0Â°C"
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yeah, hardly ate all week last year
<Azelphur> screen-x: http://pastebin.com/bNmcNjwQ
<screen-x> Azelphur: ah, you are matching the whole output, I was just working on one line..
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> sensors | grep "CPU Temperature" | sed 's/^.*:\s*\(+[0-9\.]*.\?C\).*$/\1/'
<Azelphur> \o/
<screen-x> | sed '/CPU Temp/s/^.*:\s*\(+[0-9\.]*.\?C\).*$/\1/'
<screen-x> should do it
<Azelphur> nope
<screen-x> :(
<Azelphur> screen-x: it sort of does it, it truncates the correct line
<Azelphur> but it leaves all the other output alone
<screen-x> ah yes, would need a command to delete the other lines, grep is probably best.
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> screen-x: slight mod on the sed, can you remove the + and degrees c too
<Azelphur> I just want the number :P
<screen-x> Azelphur: put them outside the capture group
<Azelphur> ah I see, got it :)
<Azelphur> hmm, vnstat is being weird
<Azelphur> it says not enough data available yet but it's been running for like 24 hours
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Thoughts on the Sony Jailbreak Lawsuit - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/01/thoughts-on-the-sony-jailbreak-lawsuit/
<YaManicKill> didnt realise i had a hilight on my real name
<YaManicKill> useful to know...
<gord> my very french manager asked to try my english pg tips, the world has gone insane! (in a good way)
<AlanBell> gord: boris?
<gord> AlanBell, boris?
<AlanBell> not him then
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5zhcYHazGw this guy
<d3ngar_> Hi, I have a problem with my DAAP server: the port is open, Rhythmbox is listening on it - yet I can't connect to the server, I don't get a song list
<d3ngar_> Any ideas?
<d3ngar_> :(
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-13
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Cloud Packaging, CD Download Page Bling, Texas Weather, Choqok Message Indicator - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4374
<lalilililili> @seek yeats
<lalilililili> whoops :3
<lazarus_> http://img141.imageshack.us/i/screenshotzn.png/
<Myrtti> moin
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<Myrtti> how appropriate. BigRedS' nick is actually red in my irssi.
<BigRedS> Ah, but is it big?
<Myrtti> fairly so, it's in bold
<DJones> Its sort of pinkish on mine
<czajkowski> AlanBell: which train do I get again ?
<Myrtti> brainlapse of the morning is that I considered cutpasting a piece of the log to show it's red and big. took about a minute while drinking coffee to realise the colors won't stick to the log excerpt :-D
<DJones> screenshot + imagebin would work
<Myrtti> sure
<czajkowski> Myrtti: morning!
<BigRedS> haha
<Myrtti> czajkowski: ohai
<Laney> does RB import to ~/Music/ by default?
<Myrtti> I don't know if the problem is with the water or with the coffee or the coffee machine but ohmy the coffee is horrible, so I blame the coffee for lack of brain
<BigRedS> Laney: Always has wanted to for me
<czajkowski> right to London I go
<Laney> ty
<DJones> Are you back in the UK Myrtti
<Creaky-Bore> ok folks, here one for anybody... PulseAudio how can you set priority on connected hardware? For example, if a USB microphone is connected use that automatically in preference to inbuilt hardware? Cant find anything on the Sound panel to allow this...
<Myrtti> DJones: Berlin atm
<AlanBell> czajkowski 10:04
<BigRedS> Should be an easy enough time to remember...
<DJones> Heh, I can just see her going to the station and asking for a ticket on the Lucid Lynx to London :)
<AlanBell> I can see her catching the earlier one that doesn't stop at clapham
<screen-x> morning :)
<kvarley> lo
<popey> MORNING!
<screen-x> shh popey
<bigcalm> Good morning!
<Myrtti> moar coffee
<bigcalm> Myrtti: !!
<popey> happy happy joy joy
<popey> I am in an annoyingly good mood today
<popey> be warned
<bigcalm> Run and hide
<bigcalm> popey: it's good to be happy
<bigcalm> popey: what happened?
<popey> bigcalm: lots of personal stuff
<bigcalm> Fair do
<bigcalm> Spread a little joy :)
<popey> also!
<popey> I have a project at work to write something, and I am going to use python
<popey> where everyone else uses bash
<bigcalm> Ooooo
<screen-x> hisssssss
<bigcalm> I sadly do so in PHP these days
<directhex> you should use erlang.
<Myrtti> popey: I can balance it out by being grumpy
<Myrtti> that seems to be my default mode of existance nowadays
<Myrtti> so it requires no extra effort
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I am very happy to see you back on IRC *hugs* (hope this makes you a little less grumpy)
<screen-x> any idea which raid card this is? http://paste.ubuntu.com/553540/
<screen-x> I need to download the proprietary monitoring thing, but that requires knowing which model it is.
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I've never really gone away, I just pick and choose the channels I deem to not make me grumpier
<Myrtti> today the preconception is that -uk might fit the bill
<bigcalm> This is a happy channel where everybody is nice to everybody else
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<DJones> bigcalm: You make it sound like Cheers
<bigcalm> DJones: I like to go where everybody knows ones name
<screen-x> got it, it's a 5445.
<bigcalm> Now I'm imagining an episode of Cheers where the cast are replaced by members of the royal family
<AlanBell> choo choo
<screen-x> off up to london AlanBell?
<bigcalm> Ok, today is off to a mad start. AlanBell thinks that he is a train
<screen-x> bigcalm: he has been fraternising with poultry.
<BigRedS> Is that legal?
<screen-x> not like that BigRedS :p
<BigRedS> Ah, good :) haha
<AlanBell> no czajkowski at the station
<bigcalm> Maybe she went home to tidy up
<danfish> morning all
<danfish> anyone using geany for editing?
<danfish> for some reason it's shoving tabs instead of spaces into my python code :(
<Myrtti> I use it occasionally when I'm bored with my pink emacs
<Myrtti> danfish: you've changed the intendation type in the settings and it's not doing it the way you want?
<danfish> Myrtti: yep - keeps on 'tabbing' still
<MartijnVdS> I love the future: http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-look-for-google-translate-for.html
<Myrtti> danfish: :-/ is there a bug filed about it yet?
<danfish> there will be :)
<screen-x> popey: http://paste.ubuntu-uk.org/ --> "Unable to connect to database"
<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/
<popey> it has never been paste.ubuntu-uk.org
<screen-x> oh, memory fail
<screen-x> I'm looking for libstdc++.so.5, can't find it with apt-file or apt-cache (http://paste.ubuntu.com/553569/) Where should I look next?
<dutchie> packages.ubuntu.com?
<MartijnVdS> yikes
<MartijnVdS> that's old
<screen-x> yeah :(
<MartijnVdS> why are you looking for it?
<directhex> comes from g++ 3.3
<MartijnVdS> you found a tablet from the late stone age?
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: see paste, required for a proprietary hw raid monitor.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: maybe in the old (6.06?) repos?
<directhex> you need libstdc++5
<directhex> package name
<directhex> it's in universe
<screen-x> directhex: thanks
<directhex> http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/libstdc++5
<screen-x> how strange, it isn't in lucid.
<directhex> lucid-backports
<screen-x> yay, package from backports did the trick, thanks :)
<screen-x> odd to have to go to a new release to get a really old lib!
<Guest70853> Hello
<fr0styy> .
<screen-x>                                         |
<fr0styy> Testing ...1...2...3
<screen-x> fr0styy: I thought you were starting a game of irc pong http://www.bash.org/?9322
<fr0styy> screen-x: You must be mistaken buddy ^^
<fr0styy> screen-x:Though it looks like fun :O
<fr0styy> Immagine actually hearing the conversation? http://www.bash.org/?99835
<screen-x> fr0styy: apologies if I have destroyed your afternoon, with a link to bash.org...
<fr0styy> huh? no way, i just found another funny one :P
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<aquarius> AlanBell, ping :)
<popey> :)
<krimzon2> is there a convenient way to manage which users belong to which groups on the command line?
<popey> yes
<popey> vi /etc/group
<popey> :)
<screen-x> alt-middle click resizes windows without having to grab a 1px border \o/
<screen-x> shame most track pads don't have middle buttons..
<dutchie> popey: :o vigrp surely
<dutchie> vigr*
<krimzon2> no "list_groups_user_is_in", "add_user_to_group", "remove_user_from_group" type stuff?
<screen-x> krimzon2: read the man page for addgroup, it has some other useful commands under see also.
<krimzon2> ahh, i see
<cps> Afternoon :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps :)
<cps> I got a new thinkpad to replace the loose gpu one :)
<brobostigon> :)
<cps> amazon were very speedy in dealing with the case
<gord> oh dear, loose gpu?
<cps> gord, widely known in the thinkpad community
<cps> I was unfortunate enough to get one with a loose gpu :(
<cps> but I sent that one back and got another one :)
<screen-x> seems to be a prob with [XT]4. models.
 * cps loves the little keyboard light at the top of the screen :p
 * awilkins needs to chill out before his head explodes
<X3N> it's actually surprisingly useful cps ;)
<cps> ergh
<cps> couple of panel applets just segfaulted
<cps> I didn't know panel applets can segfault anyway
 * danfish is doing a wart clinic today so directs some liquid nitrogen at awilkins's head
<freckle> Just had a conversation with the people who look after the systems the office people use... they are looking at Ubuntu virtualisation.. woohoo
<freckle> well they are lookiing at it after I told them they could do it
 * cps has defected to fedora
<ali1234> are they looking at it like it's "all covered with ants?"
<popey> cps: how is that working out
<cps> popey, excellent at the moment
<popey> what made you switch?
<cps> just felt I needed to try something new
<cps> somehow I feel fedora's better than ubuntu
<KrisDouglas> cps: it always feels unfinished for me
<ali1234> i have to agree
<ali1234> last time i tried fedora the package manager was broken immediately after install
<popey> i haven't tried it for years
<ali1234> i consider fedora to be the red hat equivalent of ubuntu+1
<KrisDouglas> yeah
<bigcalm> With dd-wrt, how do you nail a device to an ip address?
<ali1234> then, if i want a rpm based distro that actually works, i use centos
<KrisDouglas> I quite like cent
<danfish> bigcalm: define 'nail'
<cps> danfish, I think m
<cps> oops
<KrisDouglas> danfish: he means static IP i believe
<X3N> I tried fedora 14, but I missed debs and lots of the "it just works" elements of ubuntu
<cps> KrisDouglas, yes
<bigcalm> danfish: I want to ensure that certain devices always get the same address from dhcp
<cps> err...
<danfish> ok - you can assign static ips based on MAC address
<KrisDouglas> bigcalm: You can also fix the IP on the clientside in the networking config
<bigcalm> With other routers I've used, they will list the attached devices and allow you to stick them there
<ali1234> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP
<bigcalm> KrisDouglas: I'd rather do it from one location than on many devices
<bigcalm> ali1234: ta
<ali1234> yes, static config on each device sucks
<bigcalm> Ah, so you need two windows open, one with the list of mac addresses, the other to set up the leases
<bigcalm> Slightly irritating
<cps> lol
<ali1234> yeah irritating if you use some rubbish window manager like unity, gnome-shell, or os x
<cps> os x != window manager
<popey> i suspect you know what ali1234 means by that
<ali1234> does the os x window manager even have a name?
<brobostigon> netiher is gnome-shell a WM, its mutter.
<ali1234> unity isn't either
<ali1234> LOL I TROLL U ALL
<ali1234> nobody even claimed that unity isn't rubbish :'(
<cps> unity looks rubbish to me
<bigcalm> Unity needs time and development. Right now it is not useable
<gord> unity is currently in alpha
<gord> that means its no where near finished
<DJones> I thought beta was considered to be "nowhere near finished", with alpha being broken, occasionally working
<cps> +`
<cps> +1*
<cps> alpha software just works when it wants to work, really
<ali1234> alpha, beta, rc... it all means different things to different people
<gord> beta is "lets find bugs", alpha "lets actually finish this thing"
<gord> in terms of ubuntu
<ali1234> beta is usually supposed to be feature complete
<dutchie> daubers: bank problems? :(
<cps> oh lawd
<cps> apparently a new fake antivirus was made in october last year
<cps> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPoint
<popey> there's loads of them
<Myrtti> is installing Adobe Air to 64-bit ubuntu really as hard as Adobe claims it is?
<jpds> Myrtti: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobeair/
<jpds> Myrtti: No.
<popey> i see no 64-bit version there
<bigcalm> That's irrirtating. All of the static leases are empty
<jpds> She asked how about installing Adobe Air to 64-bit Ubuntu.
 * popey picks up jpds and puts him in #pedant
<Myrtti> "thanks"
<jpds> Myrtti: "Bitte".
<directhex> use the .run
<directhex> should work
<Myrtti> I suppose I'll do that then.
<cps> hey tuxxy :)
<Myrtti> right. Well I'm not installing Air, it seems.
<Myrtti> ho-hum.
<Myrtti> segmentation fault  ./AdobeAIRInstaller.bin
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever felt the need for Air. what does it do?
<popey> nothing useful I have discovered
<BigRedS> I keep seeing mention of it's badness...
<jpds> BigRedS: Keeps you alive?
<Myrtti> tweetdeck and old seesmic desktop
<KrisDouglas> Does anyone have any idea about why a XenServer would not have passed through the NX bit to an Ubuntu host?
<BigRedS> No, that's air. Tsk. Case-insensitive jpds...
<diplo> Myrtti, they have a Chrome web app now for TweetDeck ?
<Myrtti> *sigh* I suppose I should try that too
<Myrtti> oh well.
<diplo> http://www.tweetdeck.com/chrome/
<Myrtti> back to studying QML
<Myrtti> mwahaha. --force-architecture.
<popey> :)
<moonraker> hello
<Myrtti> I'm really getting hyped about this Qt lark
<daubers> dutchie: Yup! Went to the bank to discuss stuff, had a person sit there and relay everything I said to someone else on the other end of the phone. Waste. of. time
<dutchie> wow
<dutchie> this is pretty bad
<daubers> Indeed. Started the process of changing banks already
<Myrtti> I personally can't understand what prevents a bank from doing a reservation of a money transfer to abroad to a EU/ETA country outside office hours...
<Myrtti> on web banking
<Myrtti> I had to pay the rent for this Berlin apartment from my account because Finnish banks can do such reservations, and they do the computer runs on sun-mo to thu-fri nights, no matter if it's a bank holiday or not, unlike HSBC
<daubers> Myrtti: Nothing. They just like to make things more difficult so you end up having to pay them more in charges and what not
<Myrtti> I can somewhat understand why HSBC charges Â£9 for transferring money to an EU/ETA country, but I don't understand the time restriction
<Myrtti> (my bank charges nothing, but that's because Finland is an EU/ETA country itself, I suspect)
<Myrtti> or euro country rather
<Myrtti> (or SEPA)
<MartijnVdS> Euro countries \o/
<Myrtti> oh bother, it's raining something outside :-(
<BigRedS> Myrtti: as I understand it, it's because banks like to know what's happening in advance, and there's no real pressure for them to do things quicker
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> evening jacobw
<filo1234> hi all i have got a curiosity...when i leave a message on login screen, "leave a message" ...this message whre is stored?
<shauno> filo1234: it doesn't look like it is stored.  it just passes it straight to libnotify, which creates the message on your desktop.  but sets it to not expire, so it's still there waiting when you get back
<filo1234> where are storeds gnome-screensaver-dialog messages?
<filo1234> shauno: it passed to libnotify only when i make login? or there is some tmp file where is stored?
<shauno> it looks like it's passed as soon as the note is left
<shauno> so it opens up the notification on your desktop there and then.  you just can't see it because the screensaver is still in the way
<filo1234> shauno: sure but maybe is possible o see it from tty console?
<filo1234> to*
<filo1234> shauno: i grepped my word on the message but i cannot find anything
<shauno> I'm not sure.  I think it'd involve listening to dbus while the message is being sent from gnome-screensaver to the notification daemon  (eg, when they hit submit)
<shauno> not sure how you'd do that, I've no idea how dbus works :)  just reading submit_note() in gs-lock-plug.c
<filo1234> :) ok thanks a lot for attention :)
<AlanBell> evening all
<dogmatic69> sup
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
 * AlanBell is sitting down with a rather tasty 17 year old
<AlanBell> single malt
<davmor2> AlanBell: I was about to say if it's a chicken don't eat it :P
<brobostigon> yummy,
<dogmatic69> lol
<fr0styy> G'evening everyone! :)
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/cc116e3b-970d-4bf9-9dca-80a238e8b77d.jpg
<krle> hi
<dogmatic69> o/
<krle> not sure if i should ask here but would you guys know about compiz theme managers for debian
<krle> considering ubuntu is so into compiz, figured i'd ask here
<fr0styy> dogmatic69: Ok....that was too cool lol
<dogmatic69> you missed the start :P
<dogmatic69> [19:23]	* AlanBell	is sitting down with a rather tasty 17 year old
<dogmatic69> [19:23]	<AlanBell>	single malt
<fr0styy> Im not too familiar with compiz... anything specific that youâre looking for?
<krle> just a good theme manager for debian lenny
<krle> will ubuntu's emerald work?
<krle> rather are all compiz themes ok to install irrespective of what WM you have i.e gnome or kde or xfce etc
<brobostigon> krle: compiz is a WM, gnome kde etc are desktop environments.
<krle> if it is
<brobostigon> it is,
<krle> then how come when im in gnome, i restart xorg and type in compiz --replace in the terminal and compiz loads but the terminal needs to stay on?
<brobostigon> compiz metacity mutter etc,are window managers, kde gnome xfce etc and desktopenvironments.
<krle> shouldnt the terminal just disappear if im ona  compliz WM?
<fr0styy> Nothing would tell you better that to try it out! :D
<fr0styy> What I've learned so far about debian-like systems, is that if something doesn't work, then there are always work-arounds in the case that you encounter an error. Just make sure that you back-up any critical data that you DO NOT want to lose onto an external source, and start experimenting.
<fr0styy> Anyone agree with me?
<shauno> if you close the terminal, you kill the shell that's the parent process to compiz.   compiz --replace & would let you close the shell
<brobostigon> krle: youstarted an app, like anyother from terminal, so you need to keep thatterminal running, to keep thatapp running, a wm is anapp essentially, like anyother,
<krle> but if compiz is like gnome, why doesnt gnome have a terminnal running in the bg unlike compiz
<krle> i thought a WM meant you dont have to be running no terminal in the bg for it to run, it takes over the whole thing
<brobostigon> krle: compiz is a wm, gnome is a de, they are verydifferent things.
<krle> ah ok
<shauno> it doesn't need a terminal.  it only needs it in the example you gave, because it was started from the terminal
<fr0styy> but it is using a terminal in the background, isnt it? There are always 7 terminals open....alt f1,2,3,etc           Right?
 * brobostigon goes for food, 
<brobostigon> and booze, :)
<fr0styy> stomach grouwls...
<krle> nope not 7
<krle> just one
<shauno> krle: they can actually be disabled.  they're usually left running for safety's sake
<krle> it initializes all the plugins and just sits there
<krle> which is fine by me
<krle> but if i cose the shell to get out of compiz, usually i lose borders
<krle> and the windws kinda stick together
<shauno> try running "compiz --replace &"
<shauno> that'll detach compiz from the parent shell, so the terminal isn't needed anymore
<krle> in which case  i have to alt+ctrl+backspace and relogin to have a plain gnome setting
<krle> and my borders are back
<krle> ok let me see
<krle> wait
<krle> you want me to run compiz --replace & instead of the usual compiz --replace?
<shauno> yeah.  just & on the end of the regular comman
<krle> sweet
<krle> instead i like fusion-icon better
<krle> :P
<krle> just installed it
<krle> alright sorry about the compiz stuff, good day
<AlanBell> Azelphur: what processor do you have in your smokin' hot PC?
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I7 950
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/building-computer#comment-589
<AlanBell> thanks
<Azelphur> it tears through wine gaming :D
<Azelphur> TF2 all max, World of warcraft all max, no problem.
<AlanBell> anyone got a Core I7 980X? handy?
<Azelphur> still need to try some more games
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> 980x is like 80% of my entire build budget
<Azelphur> xD
<AlanBell> quite bargainous hosting though http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-eq
<Azelphur> AlanBell: I've heard good things about them, they are great if you are ok with the setup fees and want hosting in germany
<Azelphur> I pay through the roof because I need NYC hosting
<AlanBell> yeah, we are using hetzner already for development and VMs for customers
<Azelphur> :)
<gord> Azelphur, pretty sure a computer from 3 years ago would play tf2/wow on all max ;)
<Azelphur> gord: wine adds a little overhead
<AlanBell> we took a copy of a customer's production site to a little dev VM on our core i7 920 server and it runs twice as fast as their production dual Xeon box
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> http://game.azelphur.com/forum/low-down-new-server here's what I have :p
<AlanBell> they want to move their production site to our dev box! I am thinking about getting a beast of a 980x for it to sit on
<gord> AlanBell, y'know sandybridge is just coming out
<Azelphur> dude sandy bridge
<gord> friend tryed to grab one whilst we are here, but they are all sold out :'(
<Azelphur> I got violated by sandy bridge - don't let the same happen to you
<Azelphur> xD
<screen-x> when installing grub, does "root" refer to where to the partition that contains /boot, or the root partition?
<screen-x> and evening all :)
<screen-x> oh dear, sentance construction fail
<AlanBell> gord: good point, but it will be a while before they turn up in hosting options I think
<gord> AlanBell, guess you can hardly complain with a 980x anyway :)
<AlanBell> we are going to do some optimisation of the code (which is why it is on the dev box) but we have been surprised at the baseline performance improvement from just the processor
<gord> yeah i7's are a huge improvement, even at similar clockspeeds to old cpus
<AlanBell> ours is 2.8ghz and walks all over the Xeon 3.2Ghz
<AlanBell> and they are paying three times as much as the hetzner i7 980x :)
<daubers> evening
<daubers> AlanBell: The new grade xeons are quite nice. We've had a couple in the office to play with
<daubers> Really really want to get my hands on one of the 12 core AMD's and have a play, but the mobos are a bit pants
<AlanBell> I don't think this needs lots of cores, just loads of crunchy power on one
<andylockran> howdy all
<fr0styy> Evening :D
<daubers> I've been building a nice VM box, installing it in the DC on Tuesday
<screen-x> mount
<fr0styy> Theoretically speaking, is there a way in Linux to be a remote administrator of a network? Let's say: A way to debug, install, uninstall, and overall administer a home network from a computer at work?
<daubers> fr0styy: Indeed, just need (for ease of use) a VPN
<fr0styy> If there is, can someone link me to some documentation that would help me set it up?
<AlanBell> fr0styy: install ssh-server on the home server and open up port 22 on your router
<brobostigon> linux documentation project, and help.ubuntu.com/community are good starts,
<AlanBell> then you can use ssh or putty to get to it from elsewhere
<AlanBell> and install fail2ban as well and have decent passwords or even better use key authentication
<bigcalm> I would suggest opening a different port than 22 on the router
<bigcalm> Open a port higher than 1024 and have it forward to port 22 on the linux box has the ssh server
<fr0styy> Because my parent's house's network always seems to be a mess. And we me being in london, and they being 1/2 way across the world, I was looking for a more practical solution :D
<daubers> key based auth ftw \o/
<daubers> fr0styy: They Linux or Windows based?
<fr0styy> daubers: I was thinking of installing linux on their PCs to make it possible for me to administrate them. :)
<daubers> fr0styy: There are windows alternative, such as teamviewer or logmein
<daubers> those are cross platform
<daubers> Non free though
<brobostigon> vnc ?
<fr0styy> daubers: I didnt expect there to be an easy "free' solution TBH. It was just a thought of making it my little side project. ^^
<daubers> fr0styy: They are free as in beer, but not as in speech :)
<daubers> fr0styy: If you throw together an openVPN box you could log onto their network and just use the windows RDP stuff or VNC
<popey> evening
<fr0styy> Evening!
<brobostigon> evening popey
 * popey builds chromeos
<fr0styy> So in essence you would recomend I research into ceating an openVPN box? right daubers?
<fr0styy> recommend* :S
<popey> fr0styy: i remotely admin my mums machine from anywhere
<popey> I just use ssh
<popey> no vpn
<daubers> popey: He's got potential windows machines involved
<daubers> vnc over ssh is a pig to get working right
<popey> no, it isnt
<popey> at all
<popey> it is insanely easy
<daubers> I've never had it working well enough to be useful
<fr0styy> However, do keep in mind that I could just hook them up with a linux solution to set in straight from the beginning :)
<popey> vncviewer <remoteip> -via <host_you_have_an_ssh_key_for>
<popey> job done
<popey> where those two variables are the same at my mums house
<fr0styy> Seems like it's ssh then. Gona have to do some reading before hand so that I don't mess it up though. :)
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/mum.png
<popey> ^^ I typed "vncviewer -via mum_mums_external_ip localhost"
<popey> got that window instantly :)
<mattt> am i missing something ... where's the fosdem speaker schedule posted?
<brobostigon> popey: thats a good thought, abviating chrome to internetand openoffice writer to word processor,
<popey> heh, forgot I did that :)
 * brobostigon decides tomake that change onhis mums mumbuntu machine,
<fr0styy> I want to be able to administer my Mum's PC when she has problems. Not experienced at all, but when I want to do something I get it done. :D
<fr0styy> I'll be sure to ask you popey on how to do it, when I go around their's in a few weeks. :)
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> fr0styy: i use a combination of ssh and vnc, and then use an ipv6 addr, to make it easy to ssh to.
<popey> i use dyndns.org to make it easy to ssh to
<popey> nice easy hostname
<brobostigon> popey: i remember watching a presentation you made i think lastyear, about that setup.
<fr0styy> What kind of material should I read if I want to learn more about remote administration?
<bigcalm> Some domain registers (with dns hosting) offer dynamic pointing. One of the things I like about joker.com :)
<bigcalm> fr0styy: read up on using the CLI
<brobostigon> fr0styy: i would start with linux doc project and help.ubuntu.com/community
<bigcalm> Try using your own machine without a GUI for a while :)
<fr0styy> I'd like to be able to do that :)
<bigcalm> Or, if you have a spare machine, try using that without a GUI from your main machine
<brobostigon> fr0styy: iam sure we canteach eachother, :)
<daubers> fr0styy: Popeys talk http://blip.tv/file/3668964/
<fr0styy> Was popey using a wii remote as the pointer? :O
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> I have a wiimote whiteboard pen, it is great fun
<fr0styy> Wow, what a great use for it. :)
<AlanBell> !info gtkwhiteboard
<lubotu3> gtkwhiteboard (source: gtkwhiteboard): GTK+ Wiimote Whiteboard. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3+dfsg-5.2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 21 kB, installed size 188 kB
<AlanBell> install that, pair it with bluetooth, point wiimote at screen and use an IR pen
<brobostigon> cool. :)
<AlanBell> we did art http://twitpic.com/1kbp3a
<brobostigon> :) very abstract.
<dutchie> that was fun :)
 * dutchie can't wait for oggcamp 11 (cough cough cough popey)
<danfish> fr0styy: have a look at gitso - is windows and linux - vnc based remaote admin made easy
<danfish> http://code.google.com/p/gitso/
 * daubers is pondering converting his revo to an openVPN box
<daubers> Might throw together a basic frontend for the process
<fr0styy> That was an informative speech, where was this at?
<daubers> fr0styy: Oggcamp 10
<fr0styy> What's Oggcamp?
<daubers> !oggcamp
<daubers> How can the bot not know about oggcamp?
<daubers> http://www.oggcamp.org
<Laney> you can teach it with !learn oggcamp is ...
<bigcalm> Must have been on the 2nd day as I don't remember there being a wiimote
<fr0styy> I wish I came by this 4 years ago, would have been nice to go to an event like this. :P
<daubers> I'm trying to convince work to let me potter up to the Open Source Expo
<daubers> fr0styy: Hopefully it'll happen again
<daubers> Though this year there needs to be a cake competition
<fr0styy> Yea, but ill be leaving you guys soon :(
<AlanBell> daubers: it is the same thing as http://www.cloudexpoeurope.com/
<daubers> I shall pack my cake spoon http://tinyurl.com/4z46b6f
<daubers> AlanBell: Hmmm.... we're not a very cloudy company. Be more interested in the OSE conference stuff tbh
<daubers> The registration form is rubbish too
<Azelphur> on my phone on 3g I'm getting 23kbps down and 3750kbps up...wat?
<daubers> "Decision making power" I don't recommend stuff! I design the damn things
<exobuzz> well. sandy bridge i5-2500k using built in graphics working well with maverick..
<exobuzz> with some updates from xorg-edgers ppa and a compiz tweak
<exobuzz> i thought it would be more trouble that it was.
<popey> fr0styy: there might be another oggcamp this year
<daubers> \o/
<fr0styy> Im leaving england for good in exactly 2 weeks from now, I dont think I would make it to the next one TBH. :(
<daubers> fr0styy: Where you off?
<fr0styy> Ummm....A bit of globe trotting :S
<daubers> I see
<gord> leaving england is overrated
<fr0styy> That is, until I can find a new 'base of operation'. It seems like it is going to be Germany at the moment, but who really knows. :)
<fr0styy> Overrated how?
 * fr0styy is watching Newsnight.
 * daubers heads to bed
 * fr0styy thinks its a good idea :O
<fr0styy> G'night everyone! :D
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-14
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] EFI implementation bugs - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/132477.html
<gran> are there any alternatives to brasero? when trying to burn an image brasero just ejects my disc...
<hamitron> cdrecord?
<hamitron> gran: you could try gnomebaker perhaps
<hamitron> or someone here may be able to help you get it working
<hamitron> although, this is off peak for channel activity
<gran> ill just mount it :/
<gran> cheers guys
<gran> x
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Burns Supper and KDE Release Party - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4376
<ball> Today I risked my job by installing Ubuntu on someone's computer.
<ball> I had to test his hard disk anyway and it seemed like a good opportunity to talk about Linux.
<popey> Morning
<Myrtti> mrh
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<bigcalm> Good morning Friday people :)
<kazade> morning bigcalm
<Darael> Mornin', bigcalm.
<danfish> morning
<danfish> a flu detection system using twitter
<danfish> http://geopatterns.enm.bris.ac.uk/epidemics/
<DJones> danfish: I though that was going to be like the #uksnow site, showing the locations & hot spots
<screen-x> morning :)
<danfish> hah - that could be done I suppose
<screen-x> #ukflu :)
<DJones> Heh
<screen-x> heh, you have to say #ukflu and @ the person you got it from ;-)
<DJones> maybe it should be #uk-a-choo :)
<danfish> so screen-x and DJones - you'll have that written and working by this evening then ;)
<DJones> danfish: I'm just the idea's man, screen-x will have to do the hard work
<danfish> :D
<screen-x> I have a really old installation that I'd like to virtualise, but I'm having problem running the kernel in KVM (its 2.6.5). What happens If I dump a new kernel in an old installation? Do libc (or anything else) versions have to match the kernel?
 * DJones gets out of doing any further work as quick as he can
<screen-x> DJones: I'd love to have time for projects like that..
 * screen-x runs make menuconfig, haven't done for about 10 years \o/
<Myrtti> wicked. http://www.embedded-bits.co.uk/2011/1-second-linux-boot-to-qt/
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: but who uses QT?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: that system does?
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * daubers drinks some home made lemsip
<daubers> lemon tea + honey + dispersible paracetamol = lemsip
<MartijnVdS> You could make lemon wine ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<daubers> o/
<winterweaver> is there a terminal command that will tell me what services are running on what port?
<DJones> winterweaver: Does netstat give that info?
<Myrtti> dun dun duuuuunnn...
<MartijnVdS> netstat -l
<winterweaver> DJones, I shoulda tried google first yes -_-
<MartijnVdS> netstat -lp gives program names as well
<waveform> netstat -tupln will tell you what programs are listening on TCP and UDP ports (if run as root)
 * screen-x had forgotten how long compiling a kernel takes. 
<popey>  _____     _     _             _
<popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _| |
<popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | | |
<popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |_|
<popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, (_)
<popey>                          |___/
<popey> Good morning!
<screen-x> morning popey..
<screen-x> I'm guessing that says Friday in fixed width land
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: you're in proportional width land?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: WITCH! BURN THE WITCH!
<screen-x> meh
<terran> :O
<bigcalm> TFI
<winterweaver> ok so I tried: netstat atup | grep ":80"    but I have nothing running on that port. Yet, when I try to start a service on that port I'm told I dont have permission :(
<popey> thats because you dont :)
<waveform> you won't have permission unless you're root (ports < 1024 are privileged)
<popey> ports below 1024 are protected and should be started by root
<MartijnVdS> s/should/can only be/
<MartijnVdS> (well, unless you use capabilities)
<winterweaver> ah! ok thanks !
<screen-x> winterweaver: you need -n when grepping the output of netstat for port numbers
<davmor2> popey: you seem a little too over excited at the fact it's friday :)
<popey> I AM!
<popey> have stopped drinking on school nights
<popey> so am going to have a really nice bottle of plonk tonight
<popey> looking forward to it
<screen-x> aren't they mutually exclusive?
<Myrtti> imma worried about you, son.
<screen-x> yay, kernel now includes small firearms, it just complied glock.o
<BigRedS> haha!
<kvarley> plonk?
<bigcalm> red wine
<kvarley> ah ok
<Myrtti> why is the weather so miserable :-<
<popey> interestingly I was on holiday with wifey a few years ago, and at the bar said something like " I'd like some plonk, some red wine"
<popey> he gave me the wine menu, which we ordered from, then he brought over some champagne
<popey> I said "uh?" he said "you said champagne, plonk?"
<popey> he got quite annoyed when i told him plonk means wine where I come from
<kvarley> hehe
<screen-x> I thought ponk ~= cheap wine?
<screen-x> *plonk
<popey> see, different for everyone :)
<terran> I've never heard the word plonk used like that
<dwatkins> I have
<popey> yeah, i have too
<davmor2> popey: you de plonk :D
<terran> I've only ever heard the word plonk used as in "Plonk that down in the corner"
<popey> Why thank you, that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all minute.
<terran> or "You're some plonker"
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22bottle+of+plonk%22
<Myrtti> hm.
<Myrtti> food.
<terran> Australian slang
<popey> friend of mine has a book that teaches you how to speak australian
<popey> it's called "Lets Talk Strine"
<popey> (say that in an aussie accent"
<popey> s/"/)/
<terran> G'day Sheila
<popey> oh no, its better than that :)
<popey> "Egg Nishner"
<popey> "Strewth mate, it's hot in here, is the egg nishner broken!?"
<screen-x> Heh, this article has a picture of wine in plastic cups with the caption "Wine in stemware befitting plonk" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plonk_(wine)
<screen-x> I had to say that out loud to work out what it was..
<popey> yeah, the whole book is like that
<popey> http://www.textfiles.com/humor/strine.txt
<popey> yay
<davmor2> http://vimeo.com/18732878 good point well made, lost boys is made up of one word.....
<Myrtti> wow, I've found a modern rarity
<Myrtti> a kettle without auto-off switch, base station and covered heat element
<Oli``> Odd, off-topic question: I've just seen a doobie on BBC "News" about getting an electric car from London to Edinburgh and it needing several charges on the way... Anybody know how much it costs to charge an electric car?
<screen-x> Oli``: depeds how much you pay for a kwh
<davmor2> Myrtti: it sits on a cooker right?
<dogmatic69> oly: ive seen something like 50p on some of them
<Oli``> screen-x: I mean at a public charge point... I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it's a standard rate whichever you use
<dogmatic69> but taking into account the price of batteries and the time they last, works out to about the same as petrol
<screen-x> Oli``: public charge points exist already?
<dogmatic69> ye
<Oli``> screen-x: yeah
<dogmatic69> not many
<dogmatic69> same as hydo filling stations
<Oli``> screen-x: mostly in london from what I gather... but enough to get you around the country if you're willing to take a few dozen detours
<davmor2> Oli``: the man to ask is moreati when he gets online he can give you all the specs you require
<Oli``> http://imgur.com/ebNkR.png
<Oli``> Do you suppose Webroot Internet Security Essentials runs on Linpus?
<directhex> Oli``, box shifters always do this when they have linux boxes
<daubers> Whats the server monitoring thing called again?
<davmor2> guys don't upgrade natty this morning
<screen-x> daubers: which server monitoring thing?
<dogmatic69> davmor2: whats wrong with it?
<davmor2> dogmatic69: there is an unbuilt module for compiz that unity depends on so no unity
<screen-x> kernel compile finished, vmlinux is 123MB, kernels used to fit on floppies!
<daubers> screen-x: I think I need cacti or puppet
<screen-x> daubers: puppet is more configuration  management rather than monitoring
<daubers> so probably cacti
<screen-x> or nagios
<daubers> Nagios! That was the othe rone
<daubers> ta
<Myrtti> myyh, do I want more cup soup or not...
<bigcalm> How long ago was your last one?
<diplo> daubers, I use nagios a lot, isn't cacti the usage side of it though, reads the RRD logs and graphs them historically ?
<screen-x> is there an easy way to compile a 32bit kernel on a 64bit box?
<Myrtti> *yawn*
 * screen-x apologises for boring Myrtti
<Myrtti> I'm just tired
<Myrtti> not bored
<screen-x> good job its Friday then :)
<Myrtti> I wonder would a nap be a bad idea
<davmor2> screen-x: don't you just need to set the flags correctly and the compiler do the rest
<davmor2> Myrtti: you know it would be you'd wake up be crouchy, you wouldn't sleep tonight, and you'd still feel tired
<screen-x> power nap \o/
<screen-x> but don't let it extend into a sleep
<screen-x> davmor2: which flags would they be?
<Myrtti> davmor2: it's early enough not to ruin night sleep
<davmor2> screen-x: no idea but is should be documented somewhere out there on t'interweb
<screen-x> ARCH=i386 seems to be doing something :)
<davmor2> screen-x: yeah but don't you really want i686?
<Pendulum> Myrtti: naps are good :)
<screen-x> davmor2: probably, but at this point id be happy if it boots..
<davmor2> haha
<screen-x> so the answer to that age old question "what happens if I dump the current stable kernel into a SLES 9 install?"  is that it works :D
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<screen-x> afternoon brobostigon
<brobostigon> afternoonings screen-x
<brobostigon> mutter: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-x11-3.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<brobostigon> suggestons on that error when i try and start gnome-shell.
<brobostigon> and i do hve the package installed that that lib contains.
<dutchie> brobostigon: have you tried asking #gnome-shell on irc.gnome.org?
<brobostigon> dutchie: i have just asked in #debian, i will try.
<ali1234> it may be version or arch mismatch
<ali1234> try 'ldd mutter'
<directhex> gtk3 broke lately too
<brobostigon> directhex: that might explain it then,
<brobostigon> ali1234: ptaylor@debian:~$ ldd mutter
<brobostigon> ldd: ./mutter: No such file or directory
<ali1234> ldd `which mutter`
<jpds> $(...)
<screen-x> jpds: what's wrong with backticks?
<MartijnVdS> they don't nest
<jpds> screen-x: You can't have backticks, within backticks.
<screen-x> ah ha
<popey> `````````````````````````````````````no`````````````````````````````````````
<jpds> screen-x: They look ugly too, compared to $().
<screen-x> I think I have used $() within `` ;-)
<MartijnVdS> popey: $($($($($($($($($(NO)))))))))
<jpds> Let's install a VM, within the VM!
<MartijnVdS> jpds: "Yo, dawg"
<screen-x> The program 'NO' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<screen-x> apt-get install NO
<popey> NO!
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: try "yes"
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: try sl :p
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I know
<jpds>  /exec -o yes
<screen-x> heh
<daubers> I always prefered /exec -o yes no
<screen-x> daubers: I guess that's safer, you don't won't to agree with the whole of irc.
<nucc1> i lost my horizontal scrolling ability on my touchpad since i upgraded to 10.10, anyone got any ideas?
<tonytiger> Afternoon folks.
<bigcalm> Howdy tonytiger
<tonytiger> I was wondering if anyone could recommend UK based hosting firms who supply & support Ubuntu?
<tonytiger> Preferably with a managed backup service?
<tonytiger> I already know about Bitfolk :)
<bigcalm> bytemark?
<tonytiger> Oooh, good call.
 * bigcalm hugs bytemark
<tonytiger> :)
<bigcalm> JavaScript - what's the difference between the "browser viewport" and "HTML document" when measuring width?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: The document can be wider than the viewport
<MartijnVdS> (think horizontal scrollbar)
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<nucc1> html document is everything enclosed in the html tag
<bigcalm> I'll be using the view port then
<nucc1> i just call it window :p
<screen-x> tonytiger: layershift also supply ubuntu and have a uk hosting option.
<ali1234> bigcalm: different browsers will give completely different results for both measurements anyway
<ali1234> you can't really use either reliably
<bigcalm> Using jQuerym so hopefully it might be more acurate
<ali1234> perhaps
<AlanBell> anyone know any UK based hosting that is linux friendly and can supply a really fast core i7 processor?
<bigcalm> How about cloud farming instead of one machine?
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.racksrv.com/
<bigcalm> Oh, RackSpace will probabbly do so as well
<popey> bah, out of stick
<popey> *stock
<bigcalm> What is?
<popey> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/tags.php?tag=core+i7
<popey> bigcalm: the site i posted
<popey> they ran out of i7
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> but AlanBell ^^ that link may be useful
<AlanBell> thanks
<screen-x> I'm looking for a battery in a box that has a micro usb connector, for charging a phone when away from a socket, what would one of those be called?
<screen-x> like this, but hopefully with integrated micro usb cable http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=4662&t_mode=des
<BigRedS> screen-x: I've seen them called battery boosters...
<BigRedS> but I don't know of a generic term for them
<BigRedS> (also, look at solar chargers, at least a few that I've seen also have usb in)
<BigRedS> and a battery etc.
<screen-x> solar, interesting idea, probably make it to large to carry around though.
<screen-x> this looks about right, but need to find a uk supplier http://www.phonesuit.com/products/Primo_Battery_Cube_for_SmartPhones-37-10.html
<BigRedS> screen-x: nah, the one's I've seen are solar panels with a wire with a usb mini end, and a battery box with a socket for either end of a usb lead
<AlanBell> Zee B:  by the way how did you hear about rackspace?
<AlanBell> Customer:  I asked some folk in the Ubuntu UK communit
<bigcalm> AlanBell: 2 of our largest clients use RackSpace
<bigcalm> They seem to be very customer focused
<bigcalm> And all that business BS
<AlanBell> yeah, very reputable hosters
<AlanBell> hetzner are amazing value for money though
<diplo> Didn't used to be that way, a few years ago rackspace got a bad name for itself, seem to have understood it needed to change i suppose
<ali1234> how can i stop users from changing the ownership on files and also stop them from changing the "other" permissions?
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MOODOO!
<MooDoo> davmor2: afternoon
<davmor2> MooDoo: how's life?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah not bad thanks, my new SSD has just turned up :D
<danfish> screen-x: I've one of these battery boosters http://www.amazon.co.uk/LUPO-POWERSTICK-Portable-Universal-Charger/dp/B000QEKXYS/ref=pd_cp_ce_3
<danfish> not bad - gives a few more hours with a high capacity rechargeable aa
<AlanBell> diplo: yeah, can't say I like their approach too much, and they certainly used to have a bit of a bad rep from some types of customers
<BigRedS> Anyone know of any real-life shops that're likely to have a Lenovo x100 for me to have a fiddle with? I think I want one, but I wanna test the keyboard first.
<BigRedS> Or, does anyone have one and an opinion on how it compares with IBM thinkpad keyboards of old?
<davmor2> MooDoo: nice
<X3N> BigRedS: the thinkpads haven't changed design in years and years, i'd say it would be a good bet that they're similar
<jacobw> i've used a lenovo t400, the  keyboard on that is very good
<daubers> How do I add a mib file for nagios to use?
<X3N> i've got a X201, T400 and X60 all have good keyboards
 * AlanBell tickles Daviey 
<BigRedS> X3N: nah, there's a new keyboard for them. discrete keys, sort of macbook-alike
<X3N> are you sure, on an X100 ?
<X3N> oh yes, so they are
<BigRedS> X3N: yeah, i've heard rumours they're going across the TP range
<BigRedS> I've also hear rumours that they're really rather good, though, I just refuse to believe them without trying one :)
 * brobostigon returns
<diplo> daubers,  what are you trying to do ?
<diplo> Trying to use snmp to check a device ?
<diplo> If so you use check_snmp
<diplo> http://nagiosplugins.org/man/check_snmp
<diplo>  check_snmp -H $HOSTADDRESS$ -o .1.3.6.1.4.1.24795.1 -C public
<diplo> Something like that
<brobostigon> can i use dd to put an iso onto usb flash ?
<screen-x> brobostigon: yes, but it may not be bootable
<screen-x> brobostigon: try system > administration > startup disk creator
<brobostigon> screen-x: hmm, ithink imy trysoething like unetbooinin that case.
<BigRedS> Has brobostigon gone all Aplle on us?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: lol,no, i am on debian sid. an am going to try out android-x86 froyo.
<X3N> ohh
<X3N> brobostigon: citation neededÃ!
<brobostigon> http://www.android-x86.org/download
<X3N> #isdown
<brobostigon> brb.
<BigRedS> brobostigon: it was just all those i* words :)
<BigRedS> well, both of those...
<brobostigon> BigRedS: it was workking properly when i just looked inchrome,
<shauno> hey, I'm proud of my ithink.  it validates my iexistence as a cool person
<brobostigon> brb.
<czajkowski> Aloha
<shauno> howdy
<AlanBell> o/ czajkowski
<AlanBell> all done at the show?
<czajkowski> yes!!!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: ayup
<czajkowski> bleugh
<czajkowski> 2 days of not checking work mail
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod that's to make up for not being here before :P
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi oi
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's the wounder when you're not at work you have to play catch up on the email and it can be most soul destroying
<kvarley> How can I convert a sparseimage file to iso? Or how can I burn the sparseimage?
<awilkins> I'm being a klutz - how do I pass the STDOUT of multiple commands sequentially to the same pipe
<AlanBell> (echo foo ;echo bar)|less
<shauno> I'd probably go with bash -c again.  my one-stop-crutch :)  or a named pipe (fifo), but that gets cumbersome
<shauno> $ bash -c "echo one; echo two; echo three" | xargs
<shauno> one two three
<shauno> because what's being piped into xargs is what's coming out bash's STDOUT, rather than echo's
<awilkins> AlanBell has solved it well enough :-)
<shauno> oh, duh, didn't spot that
<awilkins> Now my problem is why xmllint thinks that a uuid is not a valid xs:ID   ?>?>?>?
<awilkins> Which I will solve myself
<shauno> the sparseimage one I'm not sure how to do without a mac :/
<shauno> (hdiutil convert file.sparsebundle --format UDTO -o file.iso  ;)
<dutchie> \o/ no more exams
<dutchie> for a couple of months at least
<Myrtti> *sigh* I'd sell my left thumb for fish and chips right now :-/
 * Myrtti digs for more dry Shreddies from the box
<bigcalm> Chippy closed?
<Myrtti> I doubt there are any in Berlin
<Myrtti> I just read a story about haddock and immediately want fish
<Myrtti> FISH HERE NAO
 * jacobw imagines what german jumbo sausages would be like
<shauno> currywurst :D
<Myrtti> ffffffiiiiissssssshhhhhh
<jacobw> lol, i've just had fish and chips
<shauno> nein!
<Myrtti> http://www.theatlantic.com/food/archive/2011/01/hooray-for-haddock-fish-return-to-the-east-coast-and-other-news/69320/
<Myrtti> is there a concise UK specific list of fish and seafood that should be avoided to balance the load on fisheries?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Eat sushi
<brobostigon> evening all.
<Pendulum> NOw I want fish and chips :( And the closest chippy is 3 hours away :(
<shauno> 3 hours? where on earth are you?
<Pendulum> well, 2.5 + parking time :(
<Pendulum> in the US
<KrimZon> it's far away so you can't eat all the fish
<shauno> ah
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: they don't sell fish in the US? Or chips?
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: even in supermarkets?
<jacobw> it wouldn't be the same from a supermarket
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: he could/should start his own then
<jacobw> it has to be hot so the vinegar evaporates
<shauno> that'll be steakfries in the US, or you're going to be sorely disappointed
<Pendulum> they sell them in the supermarket, but chips are not proper chips over here unless for the really specific chip shops
<Pendulum> shauno: hah. steakfries are not chips
<Pendulum> there are a couple chip shops in NYC run by ex-pats
<shauno> they're much closer than fries :)
<Pendulum> they make me homesick for the UK (even though I've never actually lived in the UK ;) )
<jacobw> is your family english?
 * dutchie is sure that there are no chip shops in oxford :(
<shauno> it was a bit of a turning point for me when I found a store that had irnbru
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: Oxford isn't part of England then?
<brobostigon> dutchie: ibelieve there are, i have been to one.
<dutchie> brobostigon: oh? where?
<brobostigon> dutchie: intown centre.
<shauno> I know there's one out botley way
<dutchie> that's much too far for me to walk...
<brobostigon> i think there one justdown from the train station aswell.
<MartijnVdS> http://goo.gl/maps/aDH9 ? :)
<dutchie> ooh, high street
<dutchie> that isn't too far
<MartijnVdS> google -> fish and chips near oxford -> \o/
 * dutchie revises to "no ship shops on my side of oxford" then
<shauno> brobostigon: train station's on botley road.  we could be very scarily be thinking of the same place
<brobostigon> shauno: you maybe right, yes.
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://goo.gl/maps/7MJ2 then?
<dutchie> woo, even better
<brobostigon> :)
<Myrtti> m mmmmmm haddock
 * brobostigon is very allergic to fish, 
<danfish> brobostigon: I'll get me coat then :(
<brobostigon> danfish: hmm, :(
<danfish> :)
 * brobostigon avoids,
 * brobostigon has pork chops anyways, :)
 * jacobw wasn't aware that one could be allergic to fish
<danfish> jacobw: yep, it's both the proteins and oils in fish
<jacobw> i see
<MartijnVdS> ooh, David Mitchell in QI tonight
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: not lamb chops? :)
 * brobostigon has it marjed onhis sky tv guide, :)
<jacobw> he'll be wearing a jumper over a shirt with a collar
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: again? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm,
<jacobw> david mitchell that is, i can't talk for anybody else
<balor> Apart from dabs, what are good UK sites for getting tech stuff?
 * balor rarely buys stuff
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: did you see his video on "wearing th same thing every vidoe"
<jacobw> i have not seen that video
<danfish> balor: what sort of tech stuff - PC stuff or electronics?
<jacobw> so he is aware of his predictable dress sense?
<jacobw> balor: ccl?
<balor> danfish: motherboards etc..
 * brobostigon gets a beer.
<MartijnVdS> beer!
 * brobostigon gets MartijnVdS a leffe
 * MartijnVdS has Hertog Jan in the fridge
<brobostigon> :)
<danfish> balor: overclockers are OK
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.hertogjan.nl/site/040103-Karakter.php
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: thanks for the details, i dd recognise the name.
<balor> Gah! I want a Fusion motherboard, but they're not out yet :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good thing i can understand platt duutsch, i think iwill understand it,without translation,
<daubers> evening
<brobostigon> evening daubers
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: these guys are from Limburg
<MartijnVdS> \o daubersman
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i see.
 * daubers has been told to go to the OSE
<exobuzz> balor, i use scan.co.uk
<exobuzz> i like their free postage when you sign up on avforums
<balor> exobuzz: danfish: jacobw: thanks
<balor> Looks like no provider is as cheap as I am
<AlanBell> yay daubers \o/
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Order of Saint Elisabeth ?
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/linuxexposchedule
<daubers> AlanBell: I just said "Oh, theres an Open Source Expo next month" and got told to book tickets
<AlanBell> nice
<Myrtti> more shreddies...
<Myrtti> this is altogether criminal
<daubers> AlanBell: Not sure what day I'm going yet mind. And I'm there on business as much as anything else
<AlanBell> sure
<AlanBell> but check the beer venue
<daubers> Heh :)
<balor> Can you get a passively cooled i3?
<balor> nope
<balor> I *think* I want an Atom with DVI or, ideally, HDMI out.  but they all seem to come with NVidia ION GPUs.  And I like this whole open-source thing...I've been doing it for about 10 years now and I ain't gonna change
<AlanBell> they don't run particularly hot, my laptop fan isn't on right now
<AlanBell> if you are building a desktop I should think you could do a passive i3
 * MartijnVdS likes his Sony
<MartijnVdS> it's 13", so not really a netbook
<MartijnVdS> but it's quiet, has intel-everything
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<exobuzz> my new i5-2500k albeit with fan, its pretty silent
<exobuzz> s/its/is
<exobuzz> the noisiest part of my machine is the new hd,
<balor> Why can't I ever get things I want to buy?  I'm looking for a passively cooled Atom mobo with intel GPU and a PCI (not PCIe) slot.
<balor> I also wanted a Kobo e-reader
<balor> or a litl
<exobuzz> balor, what size board ?
<balor> exobuzz: don't care
<exobuzz> then why atom ?
<balor> The Kobo and litl aren't available in the UK :(
<exobuzz> why not i3/i5/etc
<balor> I thought this internet thing was supposed to mean a large free market
<balor> exobuzz: power consumption and cost.  Atom boards seem cheaper
<exobuzz> the new sandy bridge cpu has built in gpu that is decent enough
<exobuzz> cpus
<balor> exobuzz: But you can't passively cools an i3
<exobuzz> atom aint that quick though but.. ok.. get a mini itx atom board then with built in gfx.. ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: do you know what the deal is with sandy bridge and gaming?
<balor> I also want DVI/HDMO out :)
<Azelphur> is it better to get an i7 still for gaming
<balor> s/HDMO/HDMI/
<Azelphur> or buy sandy bridge and a separate graphics card
<MartijnVdS> Tea people? http://i.imgur.com/VXEsX.jpg
<exobuzz> Azelphur, depends. im running it now but ive not tried gaming yet.. not really
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> ive done a few tests
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: xD
<exobuzz> Azelphur, the gpu feels quick though compared to my last but my last was only x700
<Azelphur> I just built a big gaming machine, only to have sandy bridge come out
<Azelphur> wondering if I got gazumped or not :P
<exobuzz> balor, you are setting yourslef so many rules/limits, your making the problem here :)
<balor> exobuzz: You're right.
<balor> exobuzz: I should just get a *modern* atom and leave the other machine as my MythTV backend
<exobuzz> run nvidia with the open source driver ;-)
<balor> does that work?
<exobuzz> for 2d..
<balor> hmm...
<exobuzz> maybe buggy 3d
<Azelphur> I hear the open ATI driver is making strides in the 3d area
<balor> I only need the PCI slot for my mythtv backend for my DVB-S2 card
<Azelphur> oooh, mythtv?
<Azelphur> I run a mythbackend off a p4 3ghz with 9600GT
<balor> So maybe just get a quiet pc for the living room as a frontend
<Azelphur> and DVB-S card
<exobuzz> Azelphur, from my history with the old x700. the open source drivers were always better than the closed. but then the closed hardly worked at all back then
<balor> Azelphur: Celeron, DVB-S2
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> I've always wanted to get sky working on mythtv
<exobuzz> balor, http://www.scan.co.uk/products/zotac-g41itx-a-e-intel-g41-express-s-775-ddr2-800-sata-3gb-s-mini-itx-on-board-graphics-wifi
<Azelphur> but the mythtv people won't talk about it, even if you have an active sub :(
<exobuzz> personally i would prefer an ion one, btu that one has on board intel gfx and dvi etc
<exobuzz> aah wait. no cpu. heh thought it was atom.
<exobuzz> my bad
<Azelphur> is this for a frontend or backend
<balor> Azelphur: frontend
<Azelphur> I see :)
<balor> exobuzz: Thanks.  I think I'll just get a cheaper Atom.  For the same price I can get a CPU and DVI out (but no HDMI)
<exobuzz> balor, maybe this one? doesnt specify which chipset http://www.scan.co.uk/products/zotac-nm10-b-e-intel-atom-d510-%2816ghz%29-ddr2-667-800-sata-3gb-s-raid-mini-dtx-vga
<Azelphur> yea, the mini itx nvidia ion boards are great for that
<exobuzz> balor, k
<balor> Azelphur: The Celeron box actully works well as the backend
<Azelphur> they can do 1080p easy with vdpau
<Azelphur> and very low power, and look cool under the telly if you get a nice case
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I'd say get one with ion it's better :o
<exobuzz> Azelphur, me too buy he didnt want closed source drivers ;-)
<Azelphur> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/zotac-ion-synergy-nvidia-ion-intel-atom-n330-cpu-16ghz-ddr2-800-sata-3gb-s-sata-raid-mini-itx
<Azelphur> use open drivers then
<balor> exobuzz: Yes. I was looking at the Zotac NM10-A-E (difference in the A), but it has no PCI slot.  But if I drop that requirement :)
<Azelphur> when they get around to supporting vdpau you'll get a free upgrade
<exobuzz> Azelphur, performance :)  heh
<andylockran> hey guys
<Azelphur> exobuzz: nvidia on open drivers is gonna perform better than intel surely
<Azelphur> all the work is done by the CPU for video playback anyway
<Azelphur> unless your doing vdpau
<exobuzz> Azelphur, im not so sure.. no vdpau with the open source drivers either on nvidia
<exobuzz> intel has vaapi for some chipsets
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yea there's no vdpau now on the open driver
<balor> Azelphur: My experience is that Intel drivers work better than the NVidia ones
<Azelphur> but you can bet in the future there will
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<exobuzz> whats a good test of a gfx card under linux ?
<balor> Azelphur: In the future we get AMD chips with ATI cores and fully free drivers :)
<andylockran> anyone know any proprietary web application frameworks ?
<exobuzz> without running something through wine
<balor> exobuzz: Phronix have some test suite
<Azelphur> balor: indeed :)
<exobuzz> balor, its a whole system though right ? since it wont have the right drivers etc
<Azelphur> exobuzz: the ati drivers are great if your not using wine
<Azelphur> the open source ones
<Azelphur> they run some games (I tried hedge wars) and they handle compiz no problem
<exobuzz> Azelphur, they were ok but compiz was always slow on my last card
<Azelphur> I had issues with ATI open on wine, though
<exobuzz> depends on card i guess
<Azelphur> yea, it must do
<Azelphur> for me compiz was extremely smooth
<Azelphur> in fact I noticed it being smoother than my PC on nvidia proprietary
<exobuzz> compiz is fast here on intel hd graphics 3000
<Azelphur> :)
<exobuzz> but i had to recompile it
<exobuzz> chipset was blacklisted!
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> and thanks to ubuntu for compiling the blacklist in the binary. ugh
<Azelphur> \o/
<andylockran> hmm.
<andylockran> can I ask again - anyone know of a proprietary web application framework?
<exobuzz> andylockran, reddot ? stuff like that or ?
<exobuzz> andylockran, sharepoint ?
<andylockran> perfect.. thanks
<exobuzz> ibm websphere maybe
<exobuzz> andylockran, what for btw ? :)
<andylockran> exobuzz: writing out a business plan for an internal product.
<exobuzz> whats wrong with open source ? :)
<andylockran> 99% chance of us releasing it as open source, but have to include proprietary for comparisons.
<andylockran> analysis of proprietary business model and SWOT .etc
<exobuzz> like "shaft the customer as much as possible" ?
<exobuzz> :
<andylockran> exobuzz: yeah, but in a more constructive criticism...
<exobuzz> :) even.
<andylockran> i.e. generally proprietary web application systems are used because of the previous relationship with that supplier. In order to continue vendor lock-in, the supplier will recommend their own framework, and migrating out of it will not be economically viable.
<exobuzz> "look after customers who sign up to our 20 year old product disguised but named enterprise 2010 for life. mwahahaha""
<andylockran> yeah, kinda like that.
<andylockran> Websphere looks just the ticket.
<exobuzz> examples ive seen are like drupal.. free. 7000 modules, thousands of devs.. other companies cms, 2 devs part time, Â£100,000. 10 modules, but has the tag "enterprise"
<exobuzz> and the council bought into the 2nd one of course
<andylockran> exobuzz: specific CMS in that case?
<exobuzz> id rather not say. this channel is logged :)
<andylockran> exobuzz: can you dm or email me ?
<exobuzz> il still rather not. i work with them :)
<andylockran> right, ok.
<andylockran> I understand.
<exobuzz> sorry
<exobuzz> IBM WebSphere Application Server offers new socket pricing .. to flatten the cust burden ..
<exobuzz> erm
<exobuzz> per connection pricing ? nice idea
<exobuzz> ill stop waffling now. cheers
<exobuzz> lm-sensors cant tell me my cpu temp. bah.. am i missing something obvious. if anyone has any tips.
<exobuzz> maybe i need the svn/git bleeding edge version
<exobuzz> must be a missing kernel option somewhere...
<exobuzz> doh. just needed pkgtemp/coretemp modules. but lm-sensors didnt seem to do that automagically.
<andylockran> exobuzz: yeah, fun times.
 * AlanBell wonders if anyone can add to http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jo Shields] The phantom fifth freedom - http://apebox.org/wordpress/rants/352/
<danfish> oggcamp would be nice :)
<Myrtti> 8th of March would be a Friday
<Myrtti> no wait
<Myrtti> what year am I watching in my calendar
<Myrtti> oh, it's Tuesday. Bother
<Myrtti> nevermind then
 * AlanBell wonders what the significance of the 8th of March is
<AlanBell> apart from Dad's birthday
<Myrtti> would have been a good chance to do something uw related
<AlanBell> Ada lovelace day?
<Myrtti> International Women's Day, actually it's the centenary year of it
<AlanBell> Ada Lovelace is 24th March
<Myrtti> hmmm
<Myrtti> it's not too far off
<AlanBell> what did you have in mind?
<Myrtti> nothing special, just looking at the calendar
<Myrtti> I'm too hungry at the moment to think anything specific
<jacobw> http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/14/1332234/Trend-Micro-Chairman-Says-Open-Source-Is-a-Security-Risk
<jacobw> has anyone else heard the "trend micro titanium, stop web threats in the cloud" ads on the radio?
 * brobostigon just read about that on osnews.
<shauno> that's a pretty awful line that closed makes apple more secure.  the last jailbreak I installed was done over the air using a browser exploit.  a web page could crack my firmware for me.
<jacobw> is unity really being ported to qt?
<andylockran> howdy
<jacobw> o/
<andylockran> is there a way to compile perl as to avoid an end-user accessing the source?
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Hi all. I don't suppose anyone's got a shoutcast or icecast server going spare that I can borrow for the next two hours for about 10 listeners?
<Azelphur> JonTheNiceGuy-tv: set one up at home for that?
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> It's a live show of a podcast that's about to go live in about 15 mins
<Azelphur> best get to it then :P
<Azelphur> and in future plan ahead
<Azelphur> JonTheNiceGuy-tv: you could use ustream.tv
<Azelphur> it'd be quick n dirty for 10 listeners
<Azelphur> would work.
<brobostigon> :)
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Unfortunately the presenters have tried ustream and they can't route their audio properly to ustream :(
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> speaking of ustream, I found out how to do some cool things.  http://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur
<Azelphur> I can stream my desktop live over ustream :D
<Azelphur> if flash doesn't decide to randomly crash, anyway
<gord> JonTheNiceGuy-tv, got a mumble server running if you want to use that
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> I don't know whether the rest of the audience will have the skills to get mumble clients running, but I can ask the presenter
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> I've just realised that they've only got icecast and shoutcast output capabilities right now.
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> But, thanks anyway gord
<gord> mmkthen
<Myrtti> I've set up icecast/shoutcast servers before. It wasn't too hard (since I knew how to do it :-D)
<exobuzz> shoutcast .. aol.. grumble
<exobuzz> http://www.videolan.org/press/2010-1.html
<Myrtti> icecast was nice when I used my N800 more
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Myrtti, don't suppose you've got a howto knocking around anywhere?
<Myrtti> had my music collection on my home server, music was handled with mpd and mpd outputted to shoutcast
 * brobostigon has incidentally got his n800 onhis desk next to him, :)
<Myrtti> that way I could change song playing on my N800 with the mpd client on it while in the bath, and didn't have to transfer files
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Myrtti, I'm considering doing the same with my Android
<Myrtti> JonTheNiceGuy-tv: I got lazy and I'm paying for Spotify Premium ;-)
<Myrtti> saves a lot of hassle
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Much of my music isn't on Spotify
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> (http://cchits.net :) )
<Myrtti> no, I don't have any howtos close by, apart from the mpd wikia one
<Myrtti> it has a section on shoutcast
<Myrtti> well, icecast
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Myrtti, Fair enough. I'll have a root around
<Myrtti> and my poor home server has been out of service for years now
<Myrtti> damned thing just bleeps when I turn it on :-(
<Myrtti> was planning to make my viglen do some of her stuff but oh well.
<popey> wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<popey>  
<popey>  
<popey>  ooooooooooooooooot
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> That good eh Popey?
<popey> Very much so!
<popey> hullo JonTheNiceGuy-tv
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> Ooooo, if *anyone's* got a Shoutcast/Icecast server hanging around doing nothing (especially for your buddy TheLoveBug), it'd be *you* :D He's mid stream and his server's just died
<brobostigon> champagne time,popey ?
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy-tv: ok
<Azelphur> exobuzz: wow, didn't know that
<Azelphur> I shall gravitate towards icecast from now on
<exobuzz> yeh. horrible.. i mean, totally unnecessary
<exobuzz> it will only hurt shoutcast. xbmc has dropped it as will other software
<Azelphur> \o/
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> So, anyway, what's the woooooooting for then popey? :)
<Myrtti> it would be nice if that press release had a date on it
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> (if it's something suitable for public broadcast?)
<Myrtti> I'm going through a tutorial, and may soon have a working game I've typed into the editor all by myself.
<Myrtti> whudathunkit
<JonTheNiceGuy-tv> :)
<Myrtti> popey: audible or audibie?
<Myrtti> audible, from the looks of it
<brobostigon> interesting, for whatever reason, www.v6.facebook.com is behaving better than www.facebook.com
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Chrome, h.264 and ChromeOS& - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/01/chrome-h-264-and-chromeos/
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> I don't understand that facebook aren't enabling ipv6 and leaving it turned on?
<brobostigon> andylockran: they are, www.v6.facebook.com
<awilkins> Not working for me, I guess my router or ISP sucks
<brobostigon> works fine here, i have an ipv6 tunnel.
<awilkins> Well, SOMETHING between chair and server
<AlanBell> what do I need to do to get ipv6?
<AlanBell> why would I want a tunnel?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: to get ipv6 when your isp wont give you an ipv6 addr.
<AlanBell> I just want native ipv6 from me to where I want to go, not tunneling through some intermediary
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i want native aswell, but cant have it, right now.
<andylockran> brobostigon: yeah, but for www.
<brobostigon> andylockran: v6.facebook.com works aswell.
<andylockran> AlanBell: apt-get install miredo ?
<andylockran> AlanBell: that'll provide teredo
<AlanBell> !info miredo
<lubotu3> miredo (source: miredo): Teredo IPv6 tunneling through NATs. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.3-1 (maverick), package size 207 kB, installed size 492 kB
<brobostigon> !info aiccu
<lubotu3> aiccu (source: aiccu): SixXS Automatic IPv6 Connectivity Client Utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 20070115-14 (maverick), package size 48 kB, installed size 216 kB
<andylockran> which will enable you to browse ipv6 simple enough.
<brobostigon> true, unlike the later,
 * andylockran likes the facy my ipv6 enabled blog post went out just before these big ipv6 announcements
<andylockran> also, the testipv6 site is being run on the same server that powers one of the mailing lists I'm subscribed too - so he warned us in advance of potential outages
<brobostigon> andylockran: i have your blog ipv6'd bookmarked.
<andylockran> brobostigon: if you're ipv6 enabled, the blog will always come up ipv6
<AlanBell> if I install sixxs or teredo isn't all my traffic going to them over ipv4 then to the destination over ipv6?
<brobostigon> andylockran: oh, thats good, :)
<andylockran> AlanBell: they give you an ipv6 virtual device
<AlanBell> so like a proxy server or unencrypted vpn?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: you need to sign up with sixxs to use aiccu.
<andylockran> AlanBell: yeah, I guess so
 * AlanBell says meh to that then
<andylockran> AlanBell: who's your ISP ?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i only gone with sixxs, beause they give me a proper subnet range of addr's. no one else did, when i did my research.
<andylockran> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teredo_tunneling
<andylockran> I've got 6to4 setup on my router, then I can assign subnets internally.
<andylockran> my subnets are f00d and face
<andylockran> gotta love hex
<brobostigon> andylockran: radvd and aiccu on openwrt here.
<andylockran> radvd is setup for my internal subnets.. 1 wireless and 1 wired
<andylockran> server has bitfolk IP assigned as standard.
<brobostigon> ihave one sugnet here or both,
<brobostigon> subnet*
<brobostigon> for*
<AlanBell> my ISP was the professional sounding "IC24 Internet"
<AlanBell> which then rebranded as madasafish.com
<andylockran> haha
<brobostigon> lol
<AlanBell> http://www.madasafish.com/support/internet/gettingconnected/connection_settings/tcp_settings.shtml
<AlanBell> looks like they might do ipv6
<AlanBell> but I don't think my router does
<andylockran> yeah, that's a pai.
<andylockran> my router = debian box.
<AlanBell> it has an ADSL device?
<andylockran> that's the modem
<hamitron> I thought madasafish closed?
<brobostigon> i just have a basic adsl modem, connected to a wrt54gl.
<andylockran> brobostigon: what do you think of the site?
<hamitron> I had to find another ISP when it happened :/
<AlanBell> hamitron: no, still works just fi[CARRIER LOST]
<brobostigon> andylockran: its good. not complicated,
<andylockran> brobostigon: the new images at the top?
<hamitron> AlanBell: was it maybe just closing dialup services then?
<AlanBell> possibly
<hamitron> about 12 years ago
<AlanBell> it is all BT in the end anyhow
 * awilkins has an old build of OpenWRT
<hamitron> is not ab ;)
<hamitron> connection is I suppose :/
<AlanBell> night all
<brobostigon> andylockran: some are alittle loud.
<andylockran> how so?
<andylockran> night AlanBell
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<andylockran> hehe.. welcome popey p
<brobostigon> andylockran: brighter and louder compared towhat is around it.
<brobostigon> evening popey
<popey> lo
<popey> my son just got out of bed
<popey> "MUMMY!"
<popey> *YAK*
<andylockran> yeah, ur right brobostigon
<andylockran> need to change a few
<andylockran> or make the rest of the page brighter :)
<brobostigon> andylockran: sothey maybe stick out abit, thats just my opinon,
<UndiFineD> popey: since when are you raising mummy's
<popey> the quotes indicate that's what he said
<popey> or rather shouted
<andylockran> aww.. the poor mite ok now?
<popey> yeah
<popey> looks white as a sheet
<andylockran> right - time to leave the office I think :\
<brobostigon> andylockran: do you have an rss feed from your blog?
<andylockran> brobostigon: not a very good one
<brobostigon> andylockran: what is the addr?
<andylockran> http://zrmt.com/feed
<brobostigon> thank you,
<andylockran> only got last two articles in it at the moment
<Pendulum> popey: I hope that's all the sick :(
<andylockran> all new articles should show up
<brobostigon> andylockran: why is it a not a verygood one.
<popey> yeah, he's sleeping now
<brobostigon> andylockran: ah, i see,
<popey> just had a chat with him about DS gams
<andylockran> aww, gd gd
<andylockran> that'd send me to sleep
<andylockran> right.. I'm heading off
<popey> nn andylockran
<andylockran> have a good weekend all!
<andylockran> any if anyone is in Brum, Bees versus Ayr, 3pm Sunday ;)
<andylockran> in case I haven't broadcast it enough...
<brobostigon> nos da andylockran
<andylockran> http://dpaste.com/317847/
<andylockran> that also makes me happy
<andylockran> added spare disk to the RAID earlier in the week
<andylockran> sda went bang y;day
<andylockran> gotta love mdadm
<andylockran> ta ra
<brobostigon> nos da andylockran
<brobostigon> nos da,sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-15
<Seeker`> o/
<Azelphur> there's a tool in the repo that automatically installs the latest version of the ati or nvidia driver
<Azelphur> what's it called again?
<awilkins> Bugger. Just broke a remote server. Stupid updates to packages
<awilkins> Newer version of OpenLDAP breaks their NAS box logins so *poof* goes your /home folders
<awilkins> Silly me for wanting to update for security reasons *pah*
<awilkins> And the older version it depends on isn't available from the local repo either... grrrrr stupid server hosting company.
<exobuzz> :(
 * awilkins plans to nuke the thing from orbit with a re-image in the morning... good job it isn't critical or under heavy use
<exobuzz> still horrible feeling though when its remote and your stuck
<awilkins> Well, yes. Wouldn't be great if it was sat under my desk to be honest.
<awilkins> Just makes me distrust the ability of the hosting company to provide an infrastructure that doesn't break.,
<awilkins> You can't win - you can't get up-to-date versions of useful software (they are still on svn 1.4 - and this is CollabNet hosting, the owners of SVN!!!)
<awilkins> And if you take the updates that ARE available, your home folder vanishes....
<awilkins> Bah. Beddybyes time.
<guest9187> Problem, The volume Filesystem root has only 895MB disc space remaining?
<Azelphur> Solution, stop downloading pron
<exobuzz> hehe
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> I really need to get a new headset, but I can't settle on anything :(
<exobuzz> guest9187, run baobab
<exobuzz> see where your space is used
<guest9187> exobuzz: baobab ??
<exobuzz> http://www.marzocca.net/linux/baobab/
<exobuzz> comes with gnome.
<exobuzz> might be under "disk usage analyzer"
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> thought it seemed quiet in here, needed to scroll down ;)
<exobuzz> heh
<gord> i should really start bringing vga cables to hotels with me, so i can watch movies from laptop at night
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Joojoo, once more - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/132810.html
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] In other news - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/132940.html
<HazRPG> hi guys, just wondering about the Make Startup Disk utility... the slider for picking the documents and settings - is the value you put in there also allow for installing apps in or is it just literally how much /home you want to give it?
<HazRPG> would I be right in thinking this?
<brianb_> is there any issues with 10.04 and ssd hared drive?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<exobuzz> anyone here got the game braid (part of humble indie bundle #2) ?
<exobuzz> just wondering the performance on other graphics cards for comparison
<brianb_> there maybe a bug possibly on ubuntu 10.04 and possible 10.10 using grub2 which affects installing intel ssd hard drives
<brianb_> in the live mode switch of apic, noapic, nolapic to boot 10.04 into live mode and carrying out an instal to the ssd hard disk after the instal process and reboot the following error msg will appear after a few minuites /dev/disk/by-uuid/xxxxxxxx - does not exist dropping to a shell - the xxxxxx is the uuid number
<brianb_> followed by ( initramfs) udevd[76]: worker [92] unexpectedly returned with status 0x0100
<brianb_> even changing options in the bios makes no difference - there is no problem installing Mandriva 2010.2 which using grub1
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: howdy
<TheOpenSourcerer> How's tricks czajkowski?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: grand just here at surrey lug meet up
<livingdaylight> good morning
<popey> lo
<czajkowski> If Ubuntu UK want to have a meet up /talk/demo we can use this office over the weekend
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers noms a yoghurt to sooth his throat
<dutchie> why does it need soothing?
<livingdaylight> question: used to boot up laptop and wireless would just automatically come 'on' However, now I have to connect to it everytime. Is there a way of automating this as previously?
<dutchie> disease?
<popey> yes livingdaylight
<livingdaylight> popey, great news! :p
<popey> livingdaylight: network manager has an 'edit connections' option and you can tick the 'connect automatically' tickbox
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<daubers> dutchie: Got a swollen throat :( having no tonsils means this happens relativley frequently
 * dutchie has no tonsils either \o/
<popey> bigcalm: graze box here :)
<livingdaylight> popey, that's great to know, muchas gracias
<bigcalm> popey: everything is back to normal :)
<popey> ya
<daubers> might sit and watch Thunderbirds while doing some painting shortly
<czajkowski> where wil I find a natty download for laptop ?
<czajkowski> last one I got is corrupt :(
<czajkowski> and don't have the link
<kaushal> Hi
<ali1234> alpha1 or daily? desktop image?
<kaushal> How do i drop all user schemas related to Enterprise Edition features, such as the MDSYS account (used with Oracle Spatial).
<czajkowski> Alpha1
<kaushal> http://www.pubbs.net/200907/oracle/76327-downgrading-to-standard-edition.html
<ali1234> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/alpha-1/
<brobostigon> afternoonings all,
<brobostigon> gnome-shell fixed, the debian experimental package maintainers hve straightend it out.:)
<ocean__>  hi guys, i have got a hp laptop with switchable graphic card with ati and intel. the belos post says that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HybridGraphics it can used with the ubuntu 10.10 which i have installed already. can any one help me with the help of the above guide how to set it up. i have switcheroo on my laptop installed already
<ocean__>  thanks
<drt27272> Hi, i have a binary file which ubuntu says doesnt exist when i try to execute, i have no idea what is wrong   http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/554365/
<ocean__> hi guys. can any one exaplain me how to to do the steps 3 and 4 of this post http://asusm51ta-with-linux.blogspot.com/
<issyl0> /5/7
<ocean__> issyl0, can u help pls
<brobostigon> ocean__: you need to copy they the script into a text filewith .h extention,and make said scriptexecutable
<brobostigon> .sh *
<ocean__> brobostigon, can i save the file in the home folder then cd and make it excecutable?
<brobostigon> ocean__: yes, make it executable with "chmod +x *.sh"
<ocean__> brobostigon, can i ask u few more question about this se graphics if u know.
<brobostigon> ocean__: i know very little about graphics, i am not the man to ask.
<ocean__> brobostigon, thanks for your help. if i keep these two sh in home folder and make it executable are they going to be loaded on boot up?
<brobostigon> ocean__: no,
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Anyone here with Oracle DB experience
<ocean__> brobostigon, so what is that script going to do?
<issyl0> ocean__: sorry, I can't.
<AlanBell> o/ issyl0
<brobostigon> ocean__: i dont understand graphics, so i dont know. however cron is you best option to have something start on boot.
<issyl0> That was IRC lag making my window changes screw up.
<issyl0> AlanBell: hey :)
<AlanBell> are you at Rivermead?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> many many geeks here
<kaushal> Anything special at Rivermead ?
<AlanBell> surrey lug meeting
<kaushal> oh ok
<kaushal> Any clue to my query ?
<AlanBell> Oracle isn't in the repos!
<kaushal> yes
<Myrtti> back to learning qt...
<Myrtti> whee.
<czajkowski> :)
<EnergySpirit> hi the process "grub-probe" and "grub-pc.postinst" are frozen and they cannot be closed. help me, i need to resinstall grub or i wont be able to use this pc again!
<gord> guess i should pack, going home in a few hours :)
<czajkowski> gord: had a nice time
<gord> czajkowski, yeah, got a lot done, ubuntu is such an exciting thing to be involved with at the moment
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> sounds good
<czajkowski> waiting on iso to download to install
<czajkowski> gord: susprised you stayed past friday night
<root5> pussy
<root5> pussy
<root5> hello?
<jpds> You should stop drinking that stuff.
<root5> pussy
<brobostigon> !language
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
 * Myrtti raises an eyebrow
<jpds> \o/
<czajkowski> move along here
<jpds> ABUSE OF PWAR.
<Myrtti> don't get me started
<czajkowski> well either that or watch the spam, take your pick
<czajkowski> Myrtti: sorry
<bigcalm> Afternoon kids
<brobostigon> inappropriate spam.
<Myrtti> czajkowski: np, I'm waiting for him to return so I can join the fun
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ah ok thought it was because I oped up
<Myrtti> czajkowski: oh no, I just might have kicked jpds as collateral ;-)
<Myrtti> in other news, I was looking at prices of some knitting needles and I literally cried.
<czajkowski> Myrtti: ahh ok, sorry for the confusion
<Myrtti> $55 for 5 doublepointed ones... ooofff.
<Myrtti> I wonder would today be a sushi day
<jpds> Pub meal day for us.
<brobostigon> homemade  curry night here.
<gord> airplane food day :(
<AlanBell> Â£10 M&S meal for two
<livingdaylight> have I missed the fun?
<AlanBell> no kids \o/
<gord> \o/
 * dutchie is meeting his old man in the turf tonight 
 * dutchie â¥ the turf
<gord> really love that you can crank the audio volume up past 100% in ubuntu, makes these tiny laptop speakers much more useful
<dutchie> "ubuntu goes to 11"
<gord> almost everything geeky that used to go to 10 goes to 11 these days ;)
<AlanBell> I like bbc iplayer that goes to 11
<bigcalm> Re-watched This is Spinal Tap with GF last night (her 1st viewing)
<bigcalm> Now she understands the importance of things going to 11
<czajkowski> hmm install is really..........not installing
<czajkowski> hmmm nada is happening
<gord> in my highly technical opinion, it seems like that is the opposite of what you want to happen
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> and not I cant quit it
<Darael> czajkowski: AND NOT "I can't quit it"?  Surely that would imply you can?
<czajkowski> now
<suprengr> boo!
<suprengr> chalcedony: it's probably not an error - sounds like it's just gone to emulation - emulating current fiscal policy on how much of your hard earned beer tokens you are curerently allowed to keep... nada
<suprengr> czajkowski: it's probably not an error - sounds like it's just gone to emulation - emulating current fiscal policy on how much of your hard earned beer tokens you are curerently allowed to keep
<suprengr> [sorry chalcedony[not enough tab presses]
<dutchie> cz<tab> surely
 * dutchie braces for impact
<suprengr> dutchie:  don't rub it in... it was embarrassing enough :D [see, low impact... no comeback]
 * brobostigon arms the hydrogen fusion bomb.
 * suprengr pulls blanket of embarrassment over head; growls at it & pretends nowt happened
<dutchie> i was actually worried about the impact from cz<tab>
<dutchie> she's nearer now
 * suprengr runs faster than a speeding whatsit!
 * czajkowski peers at suprengr 
<czajkowski> dutchie: oi oi
 * suprengr cowls
<gord> no running!
<popey> Afternoon slackers
 * czajkowski peers at popey 
<gord> g'morfernoon
<Myrtti> wohoo expense claim!
<jpds> popey: No, we use Ubuntu.
<Myrtti> â¥ new MasterCard - making expense claims is so much easier now
<czajkowski> Myrtti: oh how so ?
<Myrtti> it's attached to my bank account directly, so when I do expense claims I don't have to do magic tricks with post-it notes and scanner to cover other purchases, instead I can just go to my online bank, bring up the specific purchase and print a pdf out of that
<czajkowski> ahh handy
<gord> i really like the global menu integration in firefox :) you realy realize how little you actually use menus
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202011/IMG_20110115_160227.jpg
<Azelphur> I clearly need more USB ports >.<
 * popey spots the HTC usb cable in the middle
<Azelphur> popey: and maybe the T-Mobile one right next to it? :P
<Azelphur> got my HTC Desire Z and the T-Mobile G1 I gave my brother plugged in atm
<Azelphur> android \o/
<gord> maybe you just need less gadgets?
<Azelphur> that's crazy talk.
<Myrtti> ihhihihii â¥ http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/5356863413/
<czajkowski> Myrtti: pretty
<Azelphur> rofl
<Azelphur> if A&L gave me printed debit cards, It'd so have the Ubuntu logo going on it.
<Myrtti> I'm not that geeky anymore
 * suprengr is impressed: reeed ahl abaht it!: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554397/ 
<dutchie> hmm, is there a way to set up postfix so it relays mail to multiple different servers? or is there a better tool for the job?
<czajkowski> hmmmm
<root8> what will happen if i post my root passwd here
<bigcalm> Why would you do that?
<brobostigon> unadvisable.
<root8> cuz im bored i just wanna see what happens
<nucc1> root8, you seem to be aware of the consequences.
<brobostigon> unaware*
<nucc1> just the password is useless.
<nucc1> the password and the IP address
<nucc1> yes, that is dangerous.
<brobostigon>  /whois root8
<root8> u have my ip, its in /whois
<nucc1> not necessarily true.
<bigcalm> root8:
<bigcalm> root8: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554413/
<Myrtti> *yawn*
<root8> bigcalm: password
<root8> go ape sh**
<root8> but please dont get me banned from freenode
<Myrtti> ah right, this is the fool from earlier
<bigcalm> root8: it doesn't interest me to do so
<nucc1> lol.
<brobostigon> yes Myrtti
<bigcalm> root8: I think you are a troll. I claim my Â£5
<root8> my passwd was p*ssy but i got kicked :(
<jpds> czajkowski: â
<nucc1> LOL
<brobostigon> root8: for using bad language, yes.
<nucc1> no please
<czajkowski> Myrtti: thanks
<Myrtti> your turn
<nucc1> spare the kid
<root8> :( i dont mean to troll pls dont kick
 * brobostigon watches czajkowski and Myrtti play around, :)
<bigcalm> root8: what if the 1st action someone were to do was rm -rf /
<bigcalm> ?
<nucc1> root8, if you're bored, go and wash the dishes in your kitchen.
<Myrtti> learn a new skill, knitting is nice and non-violent
<Myrtti> also productive
<Pendulum> so is cross-stitch
<brobostigon> nice warm clothes, :)
<root8> bigcalm: did u log in ?  passwd is password
<nucc1> Pendulum, for a second there, i thought it was the Drum and Bass group :p
<DJones> Pendulum: Yeah, but cross stitch is hard on the eye's
 * bigcalm returns to his coding
<Pendulum> DJones: I find it a lot harder on my hands than my eyes. But my hands also refuse to knit so I'm a little limited by that
<Myrtti> if you catch the knitting bug, I heartily recommend learning the continental method instead of English
 * brobostigon returns to watching star wars,
<Pendulum> brobostigon: ooh. thanks for the suggestion. I was looking for something mindless
<Myrtti> â¥ defense by change of topic
<brobostigon> Pendulum: :)
<Pendulum> Myrtti: even better is fiber-geeks :)
 * brobostigon should also ideally get curry stuff ready, but cant be bothered yet.
<dutchie> aha, msmtp seems to do the job
<selinuxium> Afternoon all!    o/
<Myrtti> http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/ryanair-boarding-pass-penalty-illegal-spanish-court-rules-2011-01/
<AlanBell> Myrtti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc
 * AlanBell installs openshot
 * directhex is writing his FOSDEM talk
<Myrtti> openshot is looooovely
 * AlanBell quite liked directhex's blog post
<directhex> AlanBell, thanks! and this time, it wasn't really directed at you or TheOpenSourcerer, since you're not remotely that far down the lunatic fringe :p
<AlanBell> it was good stuff, agree with all of it
<AlanBell> I am still a bit meh about mono
<Azelphur> I'm quite liking my switch to 3 :D
<directhex> AlanBell, and that's fine, as long as you don't claim it's not Free Software!
<AlanBell> it totally is Free software
<Azelphur> compared to the evil annoyingness of t-mobile :p
<directhex> Azelphur, still stuck on a contract until the summer
<Azelphur> directhex: I think your safe for now any way since they backtracked on their limiting plans
<Azelphur> did you hear about the 500MB thing?
<directhex> Azelphur, i heard.
<Azelphur> I jumped ship the second I read it :p
<AlanBell> what is a good way to record from a webcam?
<directhex> can't cheese do it?
<brobostigon> AlanBell: vlc
<AlanBell> frame rate is rubbish from cheese when recording
<AlanBell> openshot looks rather good
<Azelphur> hmm, Ubuntu planet clearly needs more Jordi Mallach
<directhex> Azelphur, whyso?
<Azelphur> last 10 articles all in a row are from him xD
<directhex> i guess he upgraded his blog software, and it reset the date stamp on all his posts
<Azelphur> hehe, something like that :)
<Azelphur> I just had a funny idea, I should find a cheap mobile ISP with a nasty fair usage policy and troll them.
<Azelphur> every rule they set I could just continually find ways around it
<Azelphur> I know, I'm evil. But it'd be funny :D
<ali1234> how so?
<Azelphur> ali1234: just continually do everything I can to drain as much bandwith as possible
<ali1234> they will just rate limit you
<Azelphur> and every time they impose a rule on me, route around the rule
<Azelphur> even if they do rate limit you can still waste loooads of bandwith
 * hamitron curses the term rate limit
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: I'm talking about taking up a contract with an ISP purely to troll them about their unlimited fair usage policy
<Azelphur> :P
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> don't most state the amount of data now?
<Azelphur> ali1234: most rate limit to 128k, on 128k you can still do 300GB a month :D
 * hamitron is limited to 128k now
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: some do, some don't
<Azelphur> I could open a new contract with T-Mobile when their 500MB cap comes into place
<Azelphur> and do it to them
<Azelphur> they have unlimited fair usage 500MB :D
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> they don't care you know...
<ali1234> they just rate limit you
<hamitron> if you continue to abuse bandwidth and be rate limited... do they ban you eventually?
<ali1234> dunno
<Azelphur> don't you usually get phone calls if you stick 300GB through a cheap Â£10 mobile internet?
<Azelphur> yea that's what I'm thinking :p
<hamitron> my 30 day rolling download has been 64Gb of 60Gb for a week now :/
<ali1234> you won;t be downloading 300GB at 5kbit
<Azelphur> I can imagine them calling to tell me I use more bandwith than 99.9% of their customers and me saying "cool" :P
<Azelphur> ali1234: reckon they would limit it that far?
<hamitron> :D
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> 1/10th of dialup?
<Azelphur> would be funny even to see if I could push it that far
<ali1234> if you are lucky they might "only" limit you to 19.2kbit
<ali1234> basically they switch off 3G on your account, from what i can tell
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> so you get basic GPRS speed
<ali1234> which is almost nothing... worse than dialup
<Azelphur> nah they don't do that, they limit your 3g connection to 2g speeds
<Azelphur> it'd be bad for them technically if they locked you to 2g carriers
<Azelphur> because it uses more resources
<Azelphur> at least what I heard in #android :p
<hamitron> is there any need for so much data transfer "on the move"?
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> hamitron: tethering
<hamitron> but why not just use wifi at home?
<Azelphur> hamitron: wifi isn't always available
<hamitron> hmmm, suppose
<hamitron> do most phones allow you to use wifi hotspots?
<Azelphur> yea
<hamitron> cool
<hamitron> I sold my nokia 5230
<hamitron> as it has no wifi
<hamitron> holding fire to see what the PSP2 / PSP Phone is like, before I decide what I may get
<hamitron> all your fault Azelphur
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> hamitron: have you seen what my phone can do in terms of games?
<hamitron> if I hadn't listened to you, I'd not bother getting a phone as a toy
<hamitron> no...
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_Nur_3JJw
<hamitron> dude
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> youtube on 128k....
<hamitron> runs psx games?
<Azelphur> hamitron: overclocked from 800mhz to 1.5ghz, running playstation emulator at full speed no problem
<Azelphur> :)
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> 800mhz is not fast enough for the emu?
<Azelphur> it doesn't quite run at full speed at 800, but it does run smooth and playable
<hamitron> I'd worry about shortening the life of my phone
<Azelphur> hamitron: it doesn't get any hotter than when you have it on charge
<Azelphur> it gets way hotter on charge vs overclocked gaming
<hamitron> I assume that is the battery?
<hamitron> as I can't see charging using a lot of cpu
<Azelphur> yea
<hamitron> and the cpu doesn't get hot when nearly double the clock?
<Azelphur> there are no thermal sensors
<hamitron> :|
<Azelphur> but the case doesn't get hot
<Azelphur> case is hotter charging vs overclocked gaming
<hamitron> guess I am just a big worrier :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> I am hoping sony lock their new handheld down so much I am put off from getting one
<hamitron> then I can save that money and get a new pc
<Azelphur> everything gets unlocked :P
<Darael> ...eventually.
<hamitron> I have my PSP slim unlocked
<hamitron> but it is the hassle and principle
<hamitron> I'd never risk breaking an expensive device...
<hamitron> and I just cba with companies trying to restrict me in what I do
<hamitron> if they are making life hard work, they are not on my side and their device is not "helpful"
 * hamitron takes a breath
<hamitron> bbl, food
<diplo> evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diplo> Just ordered a chinese \o/
<hamitron> :)
<diplo> Soooo hungry, decorating all day
<hamitron> I had pizza and battered chips
<jgjones> Just wondering if anyone have a WP7 phone? Or got to play with one?
 * MartijnVdS strokes his Nexus One
<MartijnVdS> my preciousss
<jgjones> Heh...I love my Nexus One too :)
<hamitron> reckon it will drop in price?
<hamitron> :/
<jgjones> WP7 or Nexus One?
<hamitron> or something similar will
<hamitron> the One
<hamitron> :)
<jgjones> Yeah price of dropped
<jgjones> I was willing to sell mine for only Â£1000. I'm now willing to sell it for the bargain price of Â£999.98
<hamitron> :|
<jgjones> Get the HTC Desire
 * MartijnVdS watches Top Gear
<hamitron> I think Â£50 is my budget atm
<jgjones> Hardware-wise it's the same as the Nexus One. The only difference is that they look different, the N1 have a trackball, Desire have a sensor, N1 have a "noise-cancellation" mic but that's it.
<diplo> MartijnVdS: Not on till next week?
<hamitron> plus will wait see what PSP Phone is going to be
<jgjones> hamitron, I assume a pay as you go phone?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: BBC Three
<MartijnVdS> diplo: (rerun)
<diplo> :)
<hamitron> jgjones: yes
<jgjones> hamitron, I did have a HTC Magic available for free to anyone but that have been given away now sorry, too late :)
<jgjones> Not that great mind you, it's a handicapped Vodafone version.
<MartijnVdS> Magic has 2.2.1 officially from Vodafone now
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: it got an upgrade last month
<hamitron> I'm not even sure if I want Android :/
<jgjones> Heh - I upgraded that HTC Magic to Cyanogenmod the day before that upgrade was announced
<jgjones> But when I say handicapped - I meant that it's the Vodafone version with half the RAM (256Mb) instead of the usual 512Mb.
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> but it has a slow CPU as well
<MartijnVdS> compared to my Nexus
<jgjones> but runs fine - just slapped on Zeam Launcher as the home screen and it's reasonable.
<jgjones> yeah about 600Mhz I think?
<jgjones> hamitron, What sort of phone you want?
<hamitron> I dunno
<hamitron> :/
<jgjones> well depend on how you want to use it I guess.
<jgjones> If just calling with some texting then any basic phone will do.
<hamitron> if a PSP took a sim card, that would do me
<jgjones> MartijnVdS, you run stock Android on your N1?
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: yes
<MartijnVdS> waiting for 2.3 :)
<jgjones> yeah...not yet out for N1.
<jgjones> Only bummer with N1 is storage.
<MartijnVdS> why>
<MartijnVdS> I have 75M free
<MartijnVdS> (internal)
<hamitron> the nokia n810 seems nice....
<jgjones> 18Mb for me :)
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: remove some unused apps ;)
<jgjones> and that's with Cyanogenmod's force move some apps to SD (for those that don't support it)
<jgjones> that's the problem....I actually use them all.
<hamitron> greedy :)
<diplo> hamitron: n810 is old now
<hamitron> diplo: something like that, but new would be good
<diplo> It's got like a 400mhz proc
<jgjones> One day - I will force myself to remove apps :)
<hamitron> the pc I am on only has a 500MHz cpu :/
<jgjones> But it does make Nexus S look tempting - no internal space worries.
<hamitron> S?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: http://www.google.com/nexus/
<jgjones> Latest Google phone - successor to Nexus One - called Nexus S, made by Samsung.
<jgjones> It's so awesome that it reboots when you are in middle of a call ;-)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<hamitron> nice
<diplo> Also get no expandable storage
<diplo> Was going to get on... not sure now
<diplo> But it does have a lot on board
<jgjones> yeah. I only have a 8GB SD card in my Nexus one and it's only 35% full.
<MartijnVdS> if only my Nexus One understood 802.11n @ 5GHz
<hamitron> geez, the nexus webpage is huge :/
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hmm that's an interesting statement - I've got problems on a laptop not undertstanding that - it seems a rare thing to work!
<jgjones> so Nexus S with 16GB is fine for me. Only thing stopping me is cost and that it's not that much of a upgrade from a Nexus One which is just bloody fantastic.
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: my laptop is the only thing that _does_ understand it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'm considering getting a new access point that's dual-band (a/b/g/2xn all at the same time)
<hamitron> I reckon it would be cool to have an Eee PC that takes a sim card, and when in standby acts like a phone
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: It took me to understand why work wifi only worked some of the time; it was only working on the APs that was 2.4
<jgjones> I got an Intel wifi module and put it into my laptop - it seem to work with 5Ghz.
<ali1234> hamitron: it's a pity that Â£g data cards can't support a voice codec, other wise that would be mostly possible
<ali1234> i mean 3G
<hamitron> yeh :/
<ali1234> you could always get one of those new motorola things though
<jgjones> ali1234, why not just get a 3G and then just use Skype or GoogleTalk to chat thru?
<hamitron> so long as the Eee didn't have side talking like the ngage...
<hamitron> 7" netbook held sideways upto your ear would look insane
<jgjones> So...to use an Eee PC as a phone, you'll hold it up to your ear?
<ali1234> well yeah obviously you would use bluetooth headset
<penguin42> hamitron: Well that depends how good you are at typing with your nose
<hamitron> damn, forgot my nose is too fat ;)
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> I wouldn't mind a phone that required bluetooth headset tbh
<hamitron> 10" screen
<hamitron> technically not a phone though... before someone points it out
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> just get a dell streak or something
<ali1234> problem solved
<hamitron> not really big enough :/
<ali1234> its plenty big enough
<AlanBell> it is quite big
<diplo> grr got my order wrong, 2 lots of sweet and sour, no chips  :(
<hamitron> :(
<hamitron> ok, nexus webpage half loaded now...
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> if you had some ARM cpu netbook that ran in low power mode most of the time, and allowing you to use bluetooth and 3G card...
<hamitron> 10 inch screen
<hamitron> ubuntu
<hamitron> be a win
<hamitron> :)
<jgjones> You would be interested in the Motorola's phone then
 * MartijnVdS has built-in 3G in his Sony 13" laptop
<MartijnVdS> and it's great
<hamitron> jgjones: maybe :)
<jgjones> The Motorola Atrix - it's a phone, but you can put it in a "dock" which is a screen and a keyboard and it become like a netbook
<jgjones> http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobile-phones/motorola-atrix-review-50002122/
<jgjones> (there's 2 other form factor too)
<Azelphur> haha, I'm in such a trolling mood today
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: reddit.com ;)
<jgjones> It's a nice idea though, I quite like it...now if I can slap Ubuntu onto that phone - and then when it's in a dock, I get a Ubuntu desktop, and take it out...it's a phone (although Ubuntu need a phone interface for that) :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: someone linked a friend of mine to a phishing site, we're messing with it
<Azelphur> got the source code out of it, and looked up his info from DNS whois :D
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: XSS in a phishing site? :)
<hamitron> jgjones: just a basic keypad on the touchscreen
<hamitron> no fancy apps
<Azelphur> hehe
<jgjones> hamitron, you wouldn't need to worry about ARM's power - the Motorola Atrix comes with a dual-core Terga cpu.
<jgjones> and it comes with as CNET puts it "1GHz of RAM"...ok the memory's fast but how big is it? :)
<hamitron> I can't load the page
<hamitron> :/
 * MartijnVdS got his dad to install Ubuntu on his "spare" machine
<hamitron> only page I can load is google.com it seems
<Darael> jgjones: It isn't.  It's pure speed with all the capacity removed :P
<jgjones> lynx?
<MartijnVdS> because there aren't Win7 drivers for his negative scanner
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jgjones> Darael, that's OK...at least it's very fast :D
<jgjones> MartijnVdS, I was told that Win7 was easier - yet why does it churn for a while every damn time I plug the mouse into a new port?!
<jgjones> Port 1 - churn...whirr...clunk...new device driver have been installed.
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: Win7 is one of the best versions of Windows I've seen
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: it suffers from that, but it does work
<jgjones> port 2 - churn....whirr....clunk....new device driver have been installed (taking up to 30 second before I can use the mouse)
<jgjones> Yeah it works.
<jgjones> it's just annoying.
<MartijnVdS> Ive even switched graphics cards, and it just kept on working
<hamitron> I always prefered win98 :/
<jgjones> And I still have issues with my HP printer with it (bluetooth)
<jgjones> bluetooth printer on Ubuntu - it just works.
<hamitron> no issues if you formated every other month
<MartijnVdS> my HP is on ethernet (and eats PCL and/or PS), works fine from any OS :)
<jgjones> bluetooth printer on win7 - sigh...sometime I have to re-add it, seaching for it in bluetooth. so I have in my printer list: hp, hp_1, hp_2, hp_3, hp_4 and so on.
<MartijnVdS> great
<penguin42> bluetooth printing? Rare
<hamitron> bluetooth is over rated :/
<jgjones> but graphics - yup that's a good thing IF i had a laptop that does it (my sony laptop need rebooting if I switch graphics anyway)
<MartijnVdS> I have a bluetooth audio adapter attached to my stereo
<MartijnVdS> so I can play podcasts on my phone and listen to them on my stereo
<MartijnVdS> (A2DP)
<hamitron> all my bluetooth stuff is upto10m
<jgjones> penguin42, yeah it's rare...I have a HP mobile printer - so it comes with bluetooth (my old HP printer which I love is wifi or ethernet but it's now in Silicon Heaven)
<hamitron> and upto 10m, I am happy to plug stuff in
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: blue smoke came out?
<jgjones> hamitron, I can't be arsed to do that - it's a printer...very rarely used but as it's a mobile - I just pick it up, switch it on, print (comes with its own battery) very useful
<jgjones> MartijnVdS, nah just died peacefully.
<hamitron> my printer is just sat near my server, ready to be turned on when needed over the network
<hamitron> main problem is 2 flights of stairs to check it printed ok :/
<MartijnVdS> CP1515n + 160g paper = fun :)
<jgjones> hamitron, mobile printer can't be underrated in a small office. Not in use? stuff it away on a shelf. Need it? Take it out, switch it on and print (obviously you have to recharge it once in a while)
<hamitron> so suppose bluetooth would be handy :))
<hamitron> guess so
<hamitron> I am won over now to the idea, no walking required...
<jgjones> mind you...ink capacity is quite small - but as I said, I rarely print so it's not an issue and I get ink from inkprice.co.uk which is quite cheap
<MartijnVdS> CP1515n colour laser \o/
<hamitron> too many colours :/
<hamitron> black and white ftw, and a bit of grey if in a creative mood
<Myrtti> i love the samsung scx-4500w we got to bits
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: back to the 50s with you!
 * hamitron boogies
<Myrtti> it reminds me of the 2001 space odyssey monolith
<hamitron> ;)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: with the monkeys with sticks?
<Myrtti> not quite
 * suprengr_ asks for a moments silence please , his aeons old Dell Lattitide cpi... poor Latty - it was a good & fulfilling lifetime [respect please]
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the monkeys with other animals bones, beeting up other monkeys,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: uhr, yes. that.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's been a while :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that bit is abit later than the bit you mentioned,
<Myrtti> it is a classy piece of kit though
<Myrtti> black and sleek and works in ubuntu ootb
<brobostigon> Myrtti: which piece of kit, may i ask?
<_H1> any chemists here?
<Myrtti> brobostigon: "i love the samsung scx-4500w we got to bits"
<MartijnVdS> _H1: depends, what do you want to know
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i missed thatbit, let melook it up.:)
<brobostigon> Myrtti: you're right, it does look like the monolith, on its side, layed down.
<brobostigon> nought on tv, so, pink floyd'athon, here we come.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: apollo on bbc3
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but floyd-a-thon sounds nice :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true, i willhave alook, and ecide,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Michael McIntyre "Live at the Apollo"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its not bad, ithink i will keep it on forabit.
 * MartijnVdS bought a kitchen today
<suprengr_> & then there's QI XL on Beeb2 @ 22:30
<MartijnVdS> suprengr_: ah! good one.. but I've already seen the "normal" one yesterday
<MichealH> Hey guys :)
<MartijnVdS> \o MichealH
<MichealH> :)
<MichealH> Little busy :P
<MartijnVdS> http://helloworldbea.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/large_aussign.jpg
<suprengr_> MartijnVdS: perhaps a little South Park on Viva then? [Mr. Hankiy's Christmas Classics no less ;D
<MartijnVdS> suprengr_: Freesat only here :\
<directhex> hiiiiidely ho!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: howdy
<directhex> that was my mr hanky
<MartijnVdS> the christmas poo1
 * MichealH screams
<MartijnVdS> !
<directhex> i love him, he loves you!
<MichealH> Why does #wikipedia-ten be so bad!!!!
<MichealH> Its bad enough Im opping there :/
 * suprengr_ checks warning "some adults may find this offensive".  [naaah!]
 * MichealH facepalms at #wikipedia-ten
<directhex> suprengr_: hopefully adults will find my fosdem talk offensive \o/
<suprengr_> directhex: now that's more like it ;)
<directhex> suprengr_: i've had compliments for my latest blogspam, and i name a certain shock site in that by name :)
<suprengr_> directhex: ok, I'm curious...
<directhex> suprengr_: it's on planet...
 * suprengr_ is still replying to condolences for dear departed "latty" [Dell Lattititude cpi] on #ubuntu-beginners... now that's a channel that respects a dead laptop!
<suprengr_> directhex: on planet ubuntu? can't find you under nick & don't know real name :(
<Darael> suprengr_: /whois is your friend.
<directhex> suprengr_: look for the feral chicken of plunder island
<suprengr_> Darael: bin there dunit already but..."This command could not be completed because it has been used recently, and is rate-limited."
<suprengr_> directhex: cool - I get the hint ;)
<Darael> I wish I did.
<directhex> bok bok bok.
<suprengr_> ;D
<suprengr_> directhex: are you referring to the fifth by any chance?
<directhex> no, because sense hofstede's blog has broken & spammed all over the place
<directhex> oh, wait, i get it
<directhex> yes
<directhex> sorry, 2 bottles of jaques seems to be enough to slow my brain down
 * suprengr_ hands directhex an mt glass for filling up please... & congratulates directhex re the blog
<directhex> suprengr_: sorry, i drank everything
<directhex> there's some desert wine left i guess
<suprengr_> yuk
<suprengr_> read that blog last night... didn't connect it at the time with your good self... too busy [purely research, of course] on own bottle at time
<suprengr_> [really ought to read the 'by' lines!]
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/MQYWkTuL this is why I love OSS :D
<Azelphur> where else can you get support like that, hehe
<penguin42> nice
<diplo> looks a nice app, and with support like that you cant go wrong
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<diplo> Game server hosting going ok still Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> diplo: indeed :D
<Azelphur> I just had ZNC randomly decide that it was going to use 100% CPU and lag everyone, that was fun
<Darael> Sounds like fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense.
<diplo> Do you monitor server load etc with anything ? or caught it with top with a terminal already open
<diplo> ?
<Azelphur> caught it with "azelphur LAAAAAG" x50 in IRC
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> players, they are a great uptime monitor
<diplo> heh
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> riot with the slightness disruption of essential services ;/
<hamitron> slightest*
<diplo> Still getting good money from adwords ?
<Azelphur> adsense, a reasonable amount yea
<Azelphur> should have another payout soon
<Azelphur> popey got an iPad >.<
 * Azelphur looses more faith in humanity
<hamitron> popey is human?
<hamitron> :|
<Azelphur> good point :P
<gord> ipads are pretty cool
<gord> only reason i don't have one is that i don't really like the ios interface/software, waiting for an android or nice linux one
<hamitron> they look a bit overpriced to me
<Azelphur> gord: you like the hardware?
<gord> they are hugely overpriced :) but that doesn't mean they aren't cool
<gord> the hardware and the utility, one of my workmates watched two movies on the flight to the US
<hamitron> there is an android one at maplin for Â£150
<hamitron> and them creative ones look cool
<gord> android isn't designed for tablets quite yet :) and the hardware is always awful, just phones with big screens
<gord> and i mean that quite litterally, same resolution
<hamitron> bigger is better.... ;/
<penguin42> hamitron: Be careful, some of the tablets have really shit processors and low amounts of RAM
<gord> think i'm gonna wait for a tegra2 android tablet, that would be nice
<hamitron> but I was thinking about how I would use one, and I can't really see how I would get my moneys worth
<gord> with honeycomb
<penguin42> gord: There is at least one already
<penguin42> gord: Oh, honeycomb hmm
<penguin42> gord: The Dixons Advent Vega is Tegra 2
<gord> i'm more thinking "made by google"
<hamitron> what you guys think to that dell inspiron duo?
<gord> like the nexxii
<gord> get my tegra2 netbook on monday :D
<penguin42> gord: Which one ? ac100?
<gord> yeah
<penguin42> they're a bit pricy - for no good reason they seem to be significantly more than an Atom based one
<gord> you get like 600% the battery life of atom systems
<gord> and an nvidia gpu for hardware video decoding
<penguin42> true, but not much RAM and no ether
<gord> i don't care about those
<Azelphur> gord: so basically the hardwares overpriced, the software sucks :P
<gord> i'm not playing crysis on this thing, i'm dragging it around me, watching the occasional tv show and doing a lot of web browsing
<Azelphur> and you can get better hardware cheaper with better software elsewhere
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> I think that constitutes ipad getting the sucky award
<gord> you'd have a hard time getting better hardware and the software thing is my opinion
<gord> lots of people would argue that the ios is some of the greatest software around
 * hamitron would rather buy a book
<hamitron> no dead battery either
<hamitron> ;/
<gord> can't watch a movie on a book! or check a website on "book"!
<penguin42> gord: Yeh I've messed with one, I'm told android is a little odd on something without touchscreen - still, it'll run Ubuntu
<hamitron> but you are busy reading the book...
<hamitron> don't need anything else
<gord> penguin42, yeah, the android install won't last long ;)
<hamitron> watching a movie on something like an iPad on the train seems a little antisocial to me, cuts you off from the environment
<directhex> an iDevice is a brick until it can be *reliably* used with Free Software only
<hamitron> yeh
<directhex> it doesn't need to be free software, but it needs to not be crippled if you don't feed it to iTunes
<hamitron> the limit to only 2 software version upgrades is worrying too
<directhex> i'd settle for a closed tablet which doesn't mandate a Windows/Mac-only media player in order to boot the first time
<gord> what if you like itunes and use it a lot? its not a brick then
<directhex> hamitron: meh, how many android devices get real updates?
<directhex> gord: then sadly the coalition has cut NHS mental health services
<hamitron> I was not saying I like android either ;/
<gord> directhex, lots from what i can tell, its always surprising to me
<penguin42> directhex: No, the people hearing voices is just a small applet.....
<directhex> i don't care if iTunes is *better* somehow, i care if i can trust the device to let me, say, load music & movies on via ubuntu
<directhex> i can't *trust* libipodwhatever, occasionally it'll go nuts & the device will brick until you sync with itunes
<gord> you can't, so i guess an ithing isn't for oyu
<gord> its not for me either, but it might be good for others, best of luck to those other people
<hamitron> how many android devices are properly "open" to the point you can re-create your own system and flash it with what you want?
<directhex> it's why i have no interest in an iphone either
<directhex> hamitron: two
<hamitron> so most are no better then :/
<directhex> hamitron: the rest need the boot loader to be hacked in some way. and AOSP is lip service to Freedom
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh but once they are hacked some more o them can have your own firmware on can't they?
 * penguin42 suspects more would succumb to a JTAG lead
<directhex> gord: honestly, if Windows Phone 7 can be reliably used on linux, and an iPhone can't, i'm more interested in WP7
<hamitron> so which 2 are "proper"?
<directhex> penguin42: many devices have custom firmwares, once hackers crack the firmware. but it's a mess of an ecosphere
<gord> directhex, okay then
<hamitron> nexus one and s?
<directhex> penguin42: hope you like reinstalling all your apps
<directhex> hamitron: yep
<gord> can only seem to get irc on this airport wifi =\ someone describe the internet to me!
<directhex> gord: a magic land filled with porn
<penguin42> gord: It's big, round and smells of chicken
<hamitron> a serious addiction for modern society
<gord> http over irc doesn't seem to be working out as a protocol, you guys need to work harder at describing!
 * hamitron wonders if facebook will be "the standard" for web browsing in the future
<DJones> Apparently the internet is an offshoot of a website called facebook
<hamitron> :D
<jgjones> directhex - I've got cyanogenmod on my nexus one - reinstall apps aren't a problem. Put in Google account and it does that automatically anyway.
<jgjones> DJones, what's facebook?
<directhex> i just can't be bothered to update villainrom on my hero. i'm just tired of android grind
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> webos is better than android in every way, except battery life & device availability
<directhex> oh, and store size i guess
<DJones> jgjones: I think its a phishing site used to collect all your personal data
<hamitron> nice to see not everyone uses it
<hamitron> :)
<jgjones> directhex, that's why I use cyanomodgen - with ROM manager - updates are checked for automatically and you just update to the next version. Quite simple actually - minimal work now.
<gord> i use the chat though empathy, that works well
<gord> never go to the website though, mostly out of lazyness
<jgjones> DJones - ah...so if I see the Facebook I should report it to phishtank then.
<hamitron> I never signed up :/
<hamitron> just cba
<directhex> jgjones: i'll tell koush he has a happy customer
<hamitron> took me ages to sign up to myspace, then everyone I know moved to facebook 2 weeks after
<hamitron> guess I am the reason for the downfall of myspace? ;/
<jgjones> hamitron, you're not missing anything at all. Google at least take care of harvesting your personal data for you so that make up for lack of facebook ;-)
<hamitron> cool :D
<hamitron> google do the work for me
<hamitron> google <3
<jgjones> you caused myspace to fail? Then you should join facebook!
<hamitron> jgjones: first good reason someone has given me ;)
 * hamitron tempted
<jgjones> It's scary how people start to think that the Internet = Facebook though.
<jgjones> everything in hand of one company.
<gord> we all know that the internet = cats
<hamitron> yeh, BBC programs often give a facebook page now :/
<jgjones> I was showing a friend a page on BBC news.
<jgjones> Was asked where I found it in facebook.
<hamitron> hehe
<jgjones> he never seen bing before
<hamitron> I read facebook accounts for over half the web usage by employee in a lot of companies
<hamitron> :/
 * jgjones rants
<jgjones> fed up with LoveFilm
<hamitron> :D
<jgjones> 4oD and ITV
<jgjones> sick of putting up with their "excuses" why they apparently isn't able to put up subtitles on their video streaming service.
<jgjones> Especially for Lovefilm. I pay for the sodding service, I am entitled to equal treatment for my money.
<hamitron> I think with how things are, I may read the linux kernel source for entertainment
<directhex> i'm annoyed that lovefilm only stream in sub-iplayer-quality SD
<hamitron> everything is either broken or crap
<directhex> when i want 3d hf
<directhex> hd
<hamitron> :)
<jgjones> :)
<gord> jgjones, okay, just fyi, you aren't entitled to equal treatment, you are entitled to take your business elsewhere where there is equal treatment ;)
<jgjones> gord - I would do it instantly
<jgjones> so can you point me to a film rental with streaming where they provide subtitles?
<jgjones> Films without subtitles are unwatchable.
<hamitron> could you not just rent dvd?
<jgjones> Hamitron - I do. However sometime I just wanna watch anything and would be interested to stream.
<jgjones> It come with my package after all.
<hamitron> guess so
<hamitron> :)
<jgjones> I asked for a discount based on the fact that I can't use their streaming service
<jgjones> obviously I don't get that.
<hamitron> I find the internet too slow :/
<hamitron> I was tempted to try that rental service at amazon...
<jgjones> Interesting enough a friend tell me that with the Equality Act 2010 - I can actually demand that LoveFilm, ITV's on demand service and so on to pull their website until they provide equal treatment.
<hamitron> but technically you are provided with the same service as everyone else?
<hamitron> :/
<jgjones> technically no since I am deaf it means Lovefilm by streaming movies without subtitles are providing an unequal service to deaf people.
<jgjones> and thus in breach of Equality Act 2010.
<jgjones> and I in theory can demand that they provide subtitles or that they pull their service - wonder if I can actually do this.
<jgjones> Time to read it up. Would be interesting anyway.
<hamitron> interesting yeh
<hamitron> I'd say a petition would be a better way to go about it
<hamitron> I know if I am denyed a service because of a minority, I tend to get annoyed with the minority, so it could lose you support
<hamitron> jgjones: do they offer a downloadable alternative? that would be easier to adapt for sub-titles?
<hamitron> right, coffee time I think
<hamitron> brb
<Azelphur> Is there any way to make an android phone actually connect bluetooth to my PC?
<Azelphur> I got it paired, but it says paired but not connected in settings
<Azelphur> I need it to connect so I can make the phone do cool things when I'm in range of my PC :P
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-16
<czajkowski> Aloha
<dutchie> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> dutchie: howdy
<hamitron> o/
<jgjones> hamitron, yes it might annoy you - however I do have to live with this day in day out. Unless action is taken, I'll have to continue to put with this for life. In the case of ITV's on demand catch up services, LoveFilm et al - there is NO technical barrier why they can't do subtitles. BBC's iPlayer is a perfect example - all BBC TV channels are 100% subtitled and iPlayer is nearly 100% subtitled too (they're getting to
<jgjones>  100% soon)
<jgjones> ITV, Lovefilm and so on don't have an excuse to not to do it. It doesn't really cost them anything. In the case of ITV - where they subtitle their TV shows, they already have the subtitle files - they just re-use it for ondemand catch up. In the case of LoveFilm - the film makers already make the subtitles. The cost to add on subtitles is really next to nothing.
<directhex> jgjones: ah... it's not quite that simple. dvd subtitles are an additional mpeg2 video stream, not text. so they'd need to do make video files for all subtitles & add overlay , or re-encode with burnt-in subtitles, or OCR them (which needs manual handholding)
<czajkowski> directhex: ELLO
<directhex> EHLO
<directhex> a little SMTP humour for you there
<czajkowski> directhex: nerd
<directhex> guilty
<UtrinqueParatus> 501 Syntax: EHLO czajkowski
<UtrinqueParatus> :P
<jgjones> directhex - it's not that difficult - I am quite sure it's really NOT that difficult for a company that stream movies as part of their business to do. They would have to re-encode all videos so that they can stream anyway.
<directhex> i'm just saying they don't have subtitles, they have a second video stream.
<directhex> which happens to contain pictures of text
<jgjones> I know there's a 2nd video stream - but again, they should be able to figure this out instead of doing nothing about it.
<hamitron> yeh, they should do something about it
 * penguin42 had assumed subtitles were text in the transport stream somewhere
<jgjones> (customer service at Lovefilm when asked what they're doing about it "We're sorry but we don't provide subtitles, we apologise for your inconveince and all that blah blah"
<jgjones> ITV "we're looking at it"
<jgjones> They launched in 2008.
<jgjones> I asked then.
<jgjones> I asked in 2009.
<jgjones> I asked in 2010.
<jgjones> It's now 2011 and i still have 0% subtitles.
<jgjones> I honestly don't think it take a few years to figure it out.
<jgjones> and if I ask them - I just get the same generic answer "we're looking at it".
<hamitron> maybe one of the cutbacks :/
<jgjones> They already have spent the money in making the subtitles in the first place.
<jgjones> they have it.
<UtrinqueParatus> doubtful considering the amount they are spending on a san data migration at present
<Pendulum> jgjones: I suspect it would take a lawsuit. In the past, I'd suggest you take it up with the EHRC, but I'm not sure what the status is with the EHRC due to all the cuts happening right now
 * Pendulum is semi-literate in UK disability law and disability politics stuff
<Pendulum> but, they are correct that it's a violation of the Equality Act
<Pendulum> (and before that was a violation of the DDA)
<jgjones> Sigh first step is to write to them and ask them if they consider that they are not in breach of the EA 2010 and if not, why not.
<jgjones> And go with that.
<jgjones> I know some deafies used that for BBC - they show video clips on their news pages which are not subtitled. BBC are now working on it, with a small number starting to show them.
<Pendulum> yeah
<jgjones> I don't have a problem with BBC though - they're pretty good at doing it at least.
 * penguin42 notes their subtitles on the TV can be amusingly inaccurate
<jgjones> penguin42, recently on BBC Breakfast, they was talking about pigs. Presenter said "....and they like to nibble on wellies" - Subtitle said "...and they like to nibble on willies"
<penguin42> :-)
<jgjones> (subtitles is now a mixture of live operator with speech recogisation)
<jgjones> BTW - even Google is attempting to put on captions on as many YouTube videos as possible using speech recogisation. Accuracy is very very bad, but at least they're working on it. Pretty awesome.
<jgjones> Talking about subtitles - in USA, a team is using those kinect cameras to translate sign language into a spoken language.
<jgjones> (well it translate into text which can then be spoken outloud)
<Pendulum> that's cool. I hadn't heard about that. I wonder if maco has
<jgjones> http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/20/kinect-hacks-american-sign-language-recognition/
<jgjones> At moment, it only understand a small number of signs, but it will be a tough project because sign language like spoken language do have its own accent for different regions of the country (sign for a meaning done differently)
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> I was about to say that about the different dialects of ASL
<Pendulum> (I'm int the US and have several deaf friends so know some ASL)
<jgjones> In UK - using BSL (British SL) - we make use of face gestures a lot so would be interesting to see how kinect would cope with that.
<Pendulum> I learned ASL with facial gestures being important so I would think they'd need to take that into account somehow
<jgjones> yeah. ASL does make use of finger spelling a lot compared to BSL mind you
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> I don't know any BSL other than the few words that I think overlap
<jgjones> (BSL - finger spelling done with two hands, not 1 handed)
<jgjones> and with that...time for me to sod off to bed :)
<jgjones> night all
<Pendulum> jgjones: good night
<ball> BSL isn't fingerspelling though.
 * ball actually just typed BSD instead of BSL ;-)
<Pendulum> ball: I know. It's just that in the US the alphabet can all be signed one handed
<Pendulum> (in ASL)
<ball> Pendulum: I know, my daughter keeps telling me that I can do that.
<ball> I only remember a few letters that I remember from signs.
<Pendulum> which may be why finger-spelling shows up a little more in ASL
<ball> I should take a class in ASL
<Pendulum> ball: you're in the US?
<ball> Yes.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> I am too, which is why I asked :)
<HazRPG> I have an interesting question I would like to ask. Is there a way to make a computer a router, when the internet connection you have is based of ADSL or similar?
<HazRPG> been doing some googling, and it seems it is possible in america, because most of them have cable... but I was wondering if its also possible on ADSL
<Azelphur> yes it's possible on ADSL in exactly the same way
<Azelphur> I did it before
<Pendulum> ball: maco created a program to teach ASL (or any other sign language someone wants to translate the program for). I think it's still only in a PPA, but it's kinda cool. Just missing a lot of words
<Azelphur> HazRPG: do you have a dedicated machine to do it?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: without having a router I mean anywhere along the line?
<Azelphur> yes
<ball> Azelphur: Yes, I've even done that with dial-up before.
<Azelphur> you just need a modem
<Azelphur> although why you wouldn't want a router seems weird to me :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Yeah it's currently running Windows Server 2003 (licence from MSDNAA, because I'm on my final year at uni)
<Azelphur> o.O
<ball> HazRPG: I wouldn't keep that on there if I wanted to use it as a router though.
<ball> ...best not to have a Windows machine Internet-facing
<HazRPG> ball: heh, trust me I've been slowly merging all my stuff to linux stuff over the last couple of years
<ball> Linux is probably safer, based on my experience.
<HazRPG> I've since linux distros designed to make a machine a router
<HazRPG> I plan to put ... vSphere I think its called now? ... ESXi onto it and have ubuntu/debian server, and a router linux distro if they can work well together
<HazRPG> ball: Linux is usually the O/S inside a router anyways
<HazRPG> I'd trust linux over windows any day
<HazRPG> long time coming to try and switch the windows server to a linux one, been slowly getting to grips with linux versions of stuff so that I can finally do this switch
<HazRPG> but I was hoping to scrap my router so I have more options with it
<HazRPG> I also want to cable my house out with ethernet ports, getting sick of having a slow connection on my PS3 because its on wireless
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Seriously, all you need is a modem? As in a regular 56k modem as found in old PCs?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: no as in an ADSL modem.
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ah, I'm with you now
<Azelphur> :)
<ball> HazRPG: 56k modem is only good for analogue dial-up.
<ball> for certain definitions of "good".
<HazRPG> didn't think those things existed for commercial use
<ball> Commercial whatnow?
<HazRPG> ball: heh, despite the bane that was dial-up - I still had good memories in those days :P
<ball> Fidonet ftw.
<HazRPG> ball: my mistake, I meant consumer use
<HazRPG> or regular punter retail...
<HazRPG> argh... I knew what I meant xD
<HazRPG> (still thinking in code ATM)
<HazRPG> much thanks for the info ball and Azelphur :)
<ball> HazRPG: I'm confused.
<Azelphur> yw :P
<HazRPG> ball: how so?
<ball> HazRPG: Never mind, I may have just misunderstood.
<HazRPG> ball: I just meant that I didn't think ADSL cards existed for us regular folk :P
<HazRPG> I thought they were only available to business and such likes that have servers setup in their office space/data centres
<ball> HazRPG: It needn't be a PCI card. Either PCI or external Ethernet modem would do the job.
<HazRPG> now you've just got my mind running in overdrive, too many options xD
<HazRPG> I can finally use the ethernet boxes I bought from Maplins years ago properly :P
<ball> I may end up doing something similar.  Thinking of switching from DSL to Cable at the end of this month.
<HazRPG> ball: ah, of course, you live in America right (I think... I remember having this discussion with you some many months back)
 * ball nods
<HazRPG> when you say similar, you mean wiring up the house with Ethernet ports, or your own properly managed server/router type scenario
<ball> HazRPG: I may go back to using a computer as a combined router and Web server.
<ball> ...and general gateway.
<HazRPG> another reason I'm doing it is because I recently had to get my phone line rewired due to noise margins being very ... iffy ... to say the least on my line. Turns out the BT guy came round and said "there's your problem, that line outside your house is 40 years old!)
<HazRPG> ball: ah, that's cool
<ball> Ours are ancient too.  I think that's one of the reasons that our DSL connection has been suboptimal.
<HazRPG> ball: at the moment, all my server does at the moment is host web (via Apache) and Murmur. It use to do so much more than that, but over the years just didn't have the need for half of them anymore
<HazRPG> ball: Yeah, mine got so bad that I had to drop down from 8Mbps to 1Mbps... and was still suffering from random drop outs and other things.
<ball> I don't know what Murmur is.  I have seen Apache in the past.
<HazRPG> Apparently now my line can reach up to 10Mbps...
<HazRPG> Murmur is the server application name for Mumble (VoIP server)
<HazRPG> and since both run on linux perfectly, I plan to move my windows one over to linux
<ball> Mumble's a good name for a VoIP app.
<HazRPG> also want to get into setting up DNS servers, and other things - I mean I've been learning networking related stuff for over 7 years now, 'bout time I used that knowledge xD
<HazRPG> ball: Haha, I thought so too. Works so much better than TeamSpeak or Ventrilo
<HazRPG> I use it for all my friends to keep in contact
 * ball isn't familiar with either of those.
<HazRPG> since all of them think that IRC is old news :/ (they're so very wrong though)
<HazRPG> Before Xbox Live and stuff like that came about, gamers use to use TeamSpeak or Ventrilo to communicate
<HazRPG> PC gamers still use them, but not so much since most games build their own into their servers now
<ball> Ah.  Pong's about my limit when it comes to games, though I did buy my wife one of those newfangled Wii things recently.
<HazRPG> I find it useful because I can give out tech-advice to friends, and likewise they can do the same with me
<ball> ...still haven't found the slot to plug in my Atari cartridges though.
<HazRPG> ball: Haha, I still own my Atari 2600 somewhere :P
<HazRPG> never needed to buy cartridges, mine had hundreds of games already built in
<ball> The 2600 had an interesting processor chip
<HazRPG> ball: I don't see the excitement over the wii
<HazRPG> ball: oh really? Better than my Sharp Home Computer did?
<ball> 6507, which was essentially a 6502 (as in the BBC Micro and CBM VIC 20)
<ball> ...but with fewer pins and less address space.
<HazRPG> wow cool
<HazRPG> did not know that
<HazRPG> ball: did you ever find that the Atari controllers didn't last very long?
<HazRPG> well joysticks really, because it wasn't really a controller
<ball> Sega Megadrive ones work well on it iirc.
<ball> ...or the Quickshot II Turbo.
<HazRPG> woah, you know what I never made that connection at the time that those would work on it
<HazRPG> but now that you mention it, the port was exactly the same
<ball> You'll likely end up with one or two buttons that don't do anything, but that's tolerable.
 * ball tries to remember what he was going to look up on Wikipedia
<HazRPG> well the original joystick only had 2 (or mine did at least)
<HazRPG> so it makes sense
<ball> Atari joysticks only had one button.
<HazRPG> ah, the replacement ones I got had 2 one on this stick itself, and one on the base
 * ball nods
 * HazRPG contemplating grabbing the atari out of its dusty box now and trying my megadrive controller on it
<HazRPG> so tempting
<ball> I have an industrial microswitch joystick that I may "redeploy" for Atari use
<HazRPG> :P
<HazRPG> go for it :P
<HazRPG> brb
<HazRPG> bk
<HazRPG> why did cartridges go out of fashion :(
<ball> I need to go and consolidate some rubbish bins, because that's how glamourous my life is.
<ball> I'll be back in a little while.
<HazRPG> :o?
<HazRPG> I was doing that earlier with the recycling bins :/
<HazRPG> anyone know what's happening at the ubuntu-uk stall?
<shauno> I've got a lovely microswitch stick I picked up with every intention of making a mame cabinet, but never did :(
<HazRPG> you totally should!
<HazRPG> you know, I'm slowly starting to think that pidgin will never get video or voice protocols implemented... :/
<HazRPG> I keep saying to myself, they might add it in the next version... but they never do :/
<karlios> mornin' folks
<HazRPG> morning
<karlios> so...where about's in england are ya?
 * karlios is by Worcester
<karlios> right.
<karlios> well, been great talking with you.
<karlios> wish you'd let me get a word in edgewise tho...
<HazRPG> ...??
<HazRPG> well that wasn't confusing at all :s
<ball> HazRPG: That was odd.
<ravibn> my webcam (frontech e-cam JIL2214) is not working after installing 10.10 anyone pl help it worked fine with 10.04 ubuntu
<Myrtti> love the amount of parience
<Myrtti> patience, even
<danfish> morning!!
<danfish> A question - I'm putting ubuntu on my dad's machine
<danfish> he's not particularly tech savvy
<danfish> better to put an LTS on on or the latest (10.10)?
<popey_> danfish: will you be supporting it?
<popey_> bah!
<danfish> popey: yup...but remotely
<danfish> but I figure easier to support remotely than his current XP machine
<popey> yeah
<popey> i use ssh and vnc to support my mumn
<popey> but she's just round the corner
<danfish> that's convenient - my dad's 250miles away :(
<freckle> [17~
<danfish> 10.04's running stable on it - I'll stick with that for now I think. Now to copy my ssh key over and turn off password based logins
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> morning czajkowski
<popey> i love vnc -via
<czajkowski> popey: hiya
<danfish> popey: vnc -via ?
<popey> yup
<danfish> lo czajkowski
<popey> so assuming you have ssh keys setup to your dads machine you can do this.
<popey> vncviewer -via ip.of.dad.pc localhost
<popey> which will open an ssh tunnel and vnc to the target (his pc on his lan)
<danfish> ah cool. Tx :)
<popey> Daviey: told me about that
<MartijnVdS> </run>
<daubers> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> \o/ http://goo.gl/maps/GD0M
<czajkowski> hows folks ?
<czajkowski> went out last night over here for the first time, bit of an eye opener ;)
<livingdaylight> hi
<livingdaylight> having issue with ssh
<livingdaylight> port:22 Cannot connect
<livingdaylight> Connection refused rather
<popey> livingdaylight: where are you ssh'ing to?
<livingdaylight> using ssh remoteuser@remotebox where remoteuser is username and remotebox is ip
<popey> does that box have ssh installed and running?
<livingdaylight> let me double check
<livingdaylight> ok, embarrassed to admit that other box didn't have ssh installed
<livingdaylight> ooops, my bad...
<livingdaylight> does ssh get removed in the distribution upgrade process?
<popey> not usually, no
<livingdaylight> coz I was sure it had previously been installed, hrmmm...
<popey> is the package "openssh-server" installed or just the "ssh" package?
<freckle> ssh-server has to be installed on new install
<livingdaylight> synaptic installs both automatically
<popey> livingdaylight: depends what package you select
<popey> !info ssh
<lubotu3> ssh (source: openssh): secure shell client and server (metapackage). In component main, is optional. Version 1:5.5p1-4ubuntu4 (maverick), package size 1 kB, installed size 40 kB
<popey> !info ssh-server
<lubotu3> Package ssh-server does not exist in maverick
<popey> freckle: it's openssh-server, not ssh-server AIUI
<livingdaylight> selecting ssh also added openssh-server
<popey> yeah
<freckle> popey: sure, I am on my phone and lazy. I type it often enough to know :-)
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> hmm I've no skype machine working and need to skype mates today, this is going to be annoying
<czajkowski> feck
<popey> why does skype not work?
<czajkowski> popey: mini 9 was on luci went to maverick and ran out of space so it stopped installing, so have a natty usb but it won't install and keeps hanging
<czajkowski> work machine I left in the office which has skype on it
<czajkowski> and the tosh doesnt have a in built mic
<czajkowski> :S
<popey> come over here if you need to
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> going to try and get natty to install again
<popey> i have gone back to maverick
<czajkowski> just if I could understand why it just looks like it is installing and does diddly squat it would help
<popey> i would install maverick and upgrade
<popey> rather than try the natty installer
<czajkowski> might do that ...
<czajkowski> hmm
<popey> less hassle
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> popey: if Ubuntu uk wants to hold a talk/demo for release party outside of london, Sirisu can offer space, or if ye just want to meet up some Saturday to do a workshop place is also available
<popey> nice one
<czajkowski> we're going to open to any user group who would like a free place to meet up
<czajkowski> flip side is someone has to be there, but I don't mind tbh as long as I've enough notice and doesn't clash with rugby
<czajkowski> :)
<danfish> RUBGY :D
<czajkowski> danfish: indeed although my team seem to want to give us heart failure atm
<danfish> czajkowski: t'was a bit close against Glasgow for you
<czajkowski> danfish: 3 games in a row they've done that now.
<czajkowski> last 2 mins and a drop goal or a penalty is just too_damn_close
<czajkowski> we've a H cup game today
<danfish> toulon isn't it? Not on TV afaik
<czajkowski> hoping to get a stream of it
<danfish> ooh - how?
<czajkowski> let me see if I can find the URL
 * danfish takes a look at the munster website - nicely done site IMO
<czajkowski> it's not bad...
<czajkowski> danfish: lost history need to go poke someone for the url again
<danfish> np
<czajkowski> leading the Magners League at 49 pts :D
<danfish> nice - what do you think of the World Cup groupings?
<czajkowski> not seen them tbh
<czajkowski> dreding tonights game, could be the end of us in the H cup
<danfish> Leinster were rather good yesterday
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> they are, which pains me to admit it!
<danfish> World Cup fixture list if you're interested http://support.fishms.org/Rugby_World_Cup_2011_Calendar.ics
<czajkowski> oh Google cal how much do I love thee! :D
<danfish> :D
<danfish> Android friendly
<gord> home \o/
<czajkowski> gord: welcome back
<gord> its so very good to be back :)
<gord> i would like to take a nap, but my cat won't let me, its hugs and cuddles time apparently. not nap time at all
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<jgjones> danfish - thanks for that World Cup fixture list :D
<jgjones> czajkowski, bah...munster supporter :P
<jgjones> Scarlets for me.
 * dutchie can hear the worcester warriors stadium from his house on match days if the wind is right
<jgjones> Although I do support Osprey secondly due to going to uni in Swansea but if it's Scarlets vs Osprey, no contest.
<daubers> jgjones: You poor soul
<Guest13772> hi, when i launch a wine application ubuntu log me off
<Guest13772> any idea why??
<jgjones> daubers, can't argue that having just lost to the Tigers
<daubers> jgjones: More of the going to Uni at Swansea
<AlanBell> afternoon all
 * AlanBell is on a boat
<richard_>  when i launch a wine application ubuntu log me off any idea why??
<jgjones> daubers, don't worry. I left after 2 years ;-)
<jgjones> richard_, does that apply to all wine applications?
<daubers> jgjones: I left under a cloud.... going back to Swansea in a couple of weeks to see some people though
<czajkowski> Ospreys are a really good team
<jgjones> well...they have quality players...
<jgjones> but...somehow they just aren't winning cups that "on paper" they should be :)
<czajkowski> not looking forward to this evenings match, even though we top the othertable
<czajkowski> :(
<jgjones> vs Toulon?
<czajkowski> aye
<jgjones> Munster do have a good chance
<jgjones> be a good game to watch
<Wolflfd> hey
<Wolflfd> im trying to sudo apt-get install gimp
<Wolflfd> but every time I do it it says
<Wolflfd> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbeezejejkejhs
<Wolflfd> and I have no idea what to do :/
<czajkowski> jgjones: ah we've not done well away
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: go into software sources and enable all the repos, and try again.
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: maybe some dependencies arent inthe repos you have enabled.
<Wolflfd> i had enabled all the repos
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: do as it suggests, with apt-get -f install.
<Wolflfd> yes I did
<brobostigon> same result?
<Wolflfd> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbeezejezhjlsj
<Wolflfd> there's some error in libungif4g I think O_o
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: iwould say there is either a package or repo inconsistency, but i would checkwith a more experienced person.
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: i would clean your package cache, sudo apt-get clean, and try again.
<brobostigon> apt-get update, first.
<Wolflfd> when i try to install it from software center, it gives error message with "The package system is broken"
<Wolflfd> Details say "libimlib2"
<Wolflfd> ok i search software center for libimlib2 and found it
<Wolflfd> then i pressed remove
<Wolflfd> but no, I can't remove broken package because that packages breaks my package system which is needed to remove/install packages :P
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: apt-get clean    ,and try, apt-get -f install , again.
<Wolflfd> yup I tried that
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: what does it say?
<Wolflfd> nothing
<Wolflfd> I mean
<Wolflfd> the same
<MartijnVdS> you need to install either libgif OR libungif
<MartijnVdS> you can't have both
<MartijnVdS> also.. dapper? are you sure?
<Wolflfd> yeah I started synaptic package manager and marked it to be removed
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: try: dpkg --remove libungif4g
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: then apt-get -f install
<brobostigon> lsb_realease -a
<brobostigon> lsb_release -a
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: in the pastebin output it says "dapper/main"
<Wolflfd> hmm
<Wolflfd> I think it works now, thanks!
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: Dapper is almost 5 years old, and won't be supported after June
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, justmaking sure there arent anyinconsistencies between what is in sources.lst and the actual version that should be there.
<Wolflfd> Dapper
<MartijnVdS> !dapper
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake) was the fourth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on July 14th 2009, Server support will end in June 2011. See !upgrade for upgrade instructions
<Wolflfd> am I supposed to know what is that?
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: it's the version of Ubuntu you're using
<Wolflfd> I'm using ubuntu 10.10 though but
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: can you put /etc/apt/sources.list on pastebin?
<Wolflfd> okay
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: because apt-get thinks you want 6.06
<MartijnVdS> (or at least parts of it)
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: also, please paste the output of lsb_release -a there :)
<Wolflfd> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbeezejjeebhlb
<Wolflfd> No LSB modules are available.
<Wolflfd> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu
<Wolflfd> Description:	Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS
<Wolflfd> Release:	10.04
<Wolflfd> Codename:	lucid
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: your did you overwrite your sources.list after installation?
<brobostigon> yep, inconsistent.
<jgjones> wonder how that happened - your apt-sources are all for dabber
<Wolflfd> oh crap
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: (probably an outdated HOWTO)
<Wolflfd> I think I know -_
<Wolflfd> MartijnVdS: exactly
<Wolflfd> so, how can I reset it?
<Wolflfd> can I just delete it and it get's restored from somewhere?
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: you can open up the "Software sources" preference thingy
<brobostigon> Wolflfd: iwould change the dapper entries , and apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
<brobostigon> ingnore me.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: software-sources can write a correct sources.list :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point, insted of doing it manually and maybe getting it wrong.
<Wolflfd> so uhm, what do I do at software sources?
<jgjones> Ubuntu Software tab - tick at least Main
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: which options are selected?
<Wolflfd> i checked all the checkboxes in Ubuntu software tab and unchecked all dapper checkboxes at other software
<jgjones> that would do it.
<directhex> wibble
<MartijnVdS> Wolflfd: I'd recommend against enabling backports and proposed
<MartijnVdS> unless you know what you;'re doing :)
<jgjones> that's in the Updates tab btw :)
<MartijnVdS> jgjones: oh it is
<jgjones> in Updates tab - make sure at least Important security updates is ticked (recommended updates too if you want to)
<jgjones> Automatic updates is up to you but it's a good idea to check for updates at least automatically.
<Wolflfd> okay thanks
<Wolflfd> having dapper repos might explain a lot of why some things haven't worked as good as they should :P
<jgjones> If you're not comfortable with terminal line - then go to the System menu and select Update Manager and check for updates
<daubers> right, ice cream base mix cooling down before going in the machine
<exobuzz> ice cream <3
 * exobuzz passes daubers a cone
<directhex> nice cream!
<MartijnVdS> woo.. FINALLY managed to burn a CD with audio tracks first, then a data track (that's readable by Windows and Linux, and I assume OSX)
<MartijnVdS> good thing I was using a CD-RW :)
<penguin42> what does it do - have instructions about what to do with the data?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no you can play it in a regular CD player (without having to skip to track 2), and you can access the files on a PC
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's used on lots of audio CDs these days for "bonus content" and "online bonus" etc.
<penguin42> ah
<daubers> exobuzz: Needs to cool for 3 hours and then go into the mixer machine!
<jacobw> the new beatles CDs had a data track that contained video content
<ujjain> does ubuntu uk have an offtopic channel?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps
<popey> hi bigcalm
<ujjain> ah ok, I am wondering Â¨whom did you see?Â¨ < is that correct or incorrect?
<popey> thats correct
<bigcalm> ujjain: depending upon the flow of the channel, topics rules can sometimes be fairly relaxed
<popey> but most people would say "who did you see"
<bigcalm> Howdy popey
<brobostigon> whom is very old english.
<ujjain> ah ok, who sounds more natural, but I was talking about who vs whom last week with somebody
<jacobw> people rarely use 'whom' in contempary english
<ujjain> but most of the English just use Â´whoÂ´ all the time it seems
<popey> yeah, whom is used by posh people and pedants :)
<bigcalm> Oi
<bigcalm> ;)
<ujjain> would a PM use whom? :p
<popey> depends on the audience
<bigcalm> Just don't get us started on less and fewer
<jacobw> depends whether they are speaking "of the people" or not
<popey> heh
<ujjain> haha, :P
<popey> ujjain: we have seriously considered an #ubuntu-uk-pedants channel :)
<dutchie> it existed for a bit
<popey> ^ king pedant
<jacobw> well, we do have to have standards
<bigcalm> popey: I just had a fried egg sandwitch, seeing Nick Frost's lunch puts it to shame
<popey> bigcalm: yeah :)
 * dutchie takes that as a compliment
<popey> we had roast chicken
<popey> his pork looked better
<dutchie> from facebook: It took me 20 minutes to make the king of all sandwiches. It's taken me over an hour to finish it. Tasty time-wasting.
<ujjain> I like dutchieÂ´s dog, that/which/who is as smart as his owner.
<bigcalm> He's a good cook. I recall that he was a chef before being an actor
<jacobw> dutchie has a dog?
<ujjain> popey: hehe :p
<ujjain> I wonder if who/which < which is better, I would use who
<jacobw> i would use who as well
<dutchie> jacobw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jshholland/3756333348/
<bigcalm> Which person are you talking about?
<popey> awww lovely doggy
<bigcalm> Which and who are used completely differently
<jacobw> aw :)
<bigcalm> dutchie: nice
<ujjain> dutchie: are you Dutch?
<bigcalm> popey: recent minecraft updates have given me bones from dead skeletons, any thoughts on what to do with them?
<jacobw> we need a QI siren for that question
<popey> i think you can make bonemeal
<dutchie> we do indeed
<dutchie> ujjain: no, not in the slightest
<dutchie> check my /whois for a clue
<popey> bigcalm: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Crafting
<popey> look for bonemeal
<ujjain> I already checked, but wanted to be sure.
<bigcalm> ujjain: no, he is owned by Prince Charles
<ujjain> do the Welsh consider themselves English?
<popey> bigcalm: cake!
<bigcalm> popey: ah, I didn't know if that wiki was company or comunity maintained
<popey> http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Cake
<popey> community
<bigcalm> ujjain: no
<ujjain> I was thinking what countries were mainly 1 people. Wondered about England.
<bigcalm> ujjain: each part of the UK considers itself to be itself. The only grouping would be to consider oneself British
<ujjain> Yeah, I understand.
<ujjain> the PM of England, is he PM of Scotland?
<dutchie> and "british" excludes northern ireland, which is part of the uk
<dutchie> strictly speaking
<MartijnVdS> You're all UKies
<bigcalm> ujjain: tricky but yes
<brobostigon> ujjain: he is the primeminister of the united kindgon of great britain.
<jacobw> whomever is the prime minister of england is the leader of britain
<ujjain> Yes, I read about British as nationality on Wikipedia, there was something with it.
<dutchie> popey/bigcalm: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewFrgDPCgGA?
<jacobw> actually, that makes much more sense if you swap prime minister with leader
<ujjain> Ireland = catholic, Northern Ireland = protestant?
<MartijnVdS> You know the German word for "leader" ?
<ujjain> Fuhrer :P
<ujjain> FÃ¼hrer? :p
<brobostigon> ujjain: however some scots are trying to seperate themselves, and eventually become independent.
<dutchie> well devolution does complicate things
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: we have Frisians doing that :)
<jacobw> northern ireland != protestant || catholic
<ujjain> Yes, many countries have multiple cultures, e.g. Spain, Italy too.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, like holsteiner.
<ujjain> Europe 100 years ago was much simpler.
<ujjain> 10 instead of 30 countries.
<popey> dutchie: thats awesome
<dutchie> i know :)
<ujjain> Friesland wil ook geen onafhankelijkheid.
<brobostigon> ujjain: i am not familier with the word onafhankelijkheid
<ujjain> independence.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it means independence
<bigcalm> dutchie: wow and cool!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, thank you.
<MartijnVdS> ujjain: not yet.. but if they keep up that language war of theirs... :)
<brobostigon> interesting nick, :)
<brobostigon> schweizer.
<Azelphur> what's a good thing to monitor server and service uptime, nagios?
<Azelphur> is nagios open source or is there an open source solution?
<Azelphur> ah, it is open source :)
<winterweaver> how would I grep for any lines containing the words "Foo" and "bar" ??
<dutchie> winterweaver: grep 'Foo.*bar|bar.*Foo'?
<dutchie> erm, i think you might need brackets
<Azelphur> Anyone familiar with nagios?
<winterweaver> ah ok thx dutchie
<Azelphur> the ubuntu guide for nagios is a bit crap :(
<ali1234> wow, you gotta love dwarf fortress players
<ali1234> http://kmkeen.com/df2ttf/
<ali1234> they said bitmap font to ttf conversion was impossible, but no
<ali1234> this guy figured it out
<Azelphur> ali1234: you happen to know anything about nagios? :p
<ali1234> i know what it does
<ali1234> that's about it
<Azelphur> blast :p
<jacobw> ali1234 knows something about everything :)
<Azelphur> indeed he does
<ali1234> heh, didn't i tell you to use it ages ago, instead of rolling your own scripts?
<Azelphur> yea, but my own scripts where for different things
<Azelphur> I actually want to do service monitoring now
<thingy> Azelphur: Nagios is a pain to configure...have you considered alternatives? Zenoss community download --> http://community.zenoss.org/community/download
<Azelphur> thingy: cool, I'm happy to try that too :)
<Azelphur> thingy: there's no android app for zenoss, any way to work around that? :p
<Azelphur> maybe XMPP notifications when things go wrong
<brobostigon> lol's at ballmer on bbc click, spencer interviewing ballmer, and ballmer carefully avoiding answering properly, like a carefully scripted politician.
<Azelphur> thingy: ?
<thingy> Azelphur: I was just googling to see if they had any notification methods other than email. I don't actually use Zenoss but did play around with Nagios (and gave up)
<Azelphur> lol >.<
<Azelphur> I'm getting tempted to just roll my own
<Azelphur> not difficult to check if a port is up in python and push a notification via XMPP
<thingy> Azelphur: looks like it only support e-mail and pagers
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> email is slow/unreliable and I don't want to pay for pagers :p
<thingy> z
<thingy> Azelphur: ah this looks promising for you: http://community.zenoss.org/docs/DOC-3496
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> I'm definitely not liking nagios, I just went to their documentation and they havn't updated it since Ubuntu 6.04
<Azelphur> rather, 6.10
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Working with the Ubuntu Messaging Menu - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/01/16/working-with-the-ubuntu-messaging-menu
<cps> Hello :)
<cps> ergh
<cps> looks like installing SLiM was a bad idea haha
<cps> I installed it on my ubuntu desktop last night thinking it would be a nicer alternative to gdm, but when I try to boot it up it stays on the boot splash
<cps> I tried leaving it for 10 minutes to see if it would boot up in the end but it still hangs
<cps> :s
<cps> hey supercosmonaut :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps :)
<cps> afternoon brobostigon :) how's you?
<brobostigon> cps: my eczema is calming alittle, my back andhip still hurt. looking forward to a driving lesson tmrw. how about you?
<cps> I'm alright, trying to get my pc to boot up though lol
<brobostigon> cps: can i be of anyhelp?
<cps> well, I installed SLiM thinking it would be a nicer alternative to gdm however when I try booting it up it just stays on the boot splash. I would enter the recovery console if I knew how to
<penguin42> brobostigon: You also have lousy eczema?  Sucks doesn't it...
<cps> I'm on maverick btw
<brobostigon> penguin42: very, it is so unpredictable sometimes, but with the immuno-suppressants it does take the worst edge of it.
<brobostigon> off*
<penguin42> brobostigon: Ah I've not tried the immunosuppressants - I probably should
<brobostigon> penguin42: i was one of the first people that they tried that treatment on, 5 years ago, because of the severity of my eczema. and as a treatment,its quite rare, and you need to be so careful with it.
<cps> does anyone know how to get into the recovery console on maverick?
<cps> if there is one, of course
<brobostigon> cps: you should have a recovery mode option within grub.
<cps> I can't get into grub for some reason though. pressing esc is the usual way isn't it?
<brobostigon> cps: that varies, not sure.
<Darael> Shift for grub2... I think.
<Darael> To be held.
<cps> oh...
<DJones> Left shift from memory
 * cps does a cold boot
<DJones> I don't think right shift does anything
<penguin42> brobostigon: I guess they don't know the long term stuff; but there again the eczema itself and the infections that go with it can't do any good long term
<cps> thanks DJones
 * cps goes into the recovery console
<brobostigon> penguin42: the infections wont be good, very true, i get a bad skin infection maybe twice or so a year.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, I've been on erythromycin for ~15 years and still get stuff
<brobostigon> penguin42: wow, not good. but yes, you will do.
<cps> right, that's slim removed using the recovery console, how do I make ubuntu use gdm again?
<brobostigon> cps: install it with apt. nd it will automaticllysetitselfup.
<cps> cheers brobostigon
<cps> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> atleast,should do.
<DJones> brobostigon: Has somebody pinched your space bar?
<brobostigon> DJones: it canbe temptramental sometimes if i dont hit it right,
<DJones> Heh
<brobostigon> tempramental*
<brobostigon> i amliking this new feature in gnome-shell, i canreply to messages from empathy, directly from the notifications bar.
<cps> strange, for some reason I can't get back into the recovery console
<cps> I do boot into recovery mode but when I press any of the arrow keys it resumes normal boot :s
<cps> hmm
<MattJ> Azelphur: service monitoring with Android integration? :)
<Azelphur> MattJ: indeed
<MattJ> That's a long-term goal of mine
<Azelphur> :D
<cps> ohai Azelphur, ain't seen you for a while :P
<MattJ> Azelphur: I have much of it done, except the Android client (at the moment I have a rough console and web client)
<Azelphur> hi :)
<Azelphur> MattJ: :)
<cps> why won't ubuntu let me back into the recovery console :(
<penguin42> cps: What did you do to it?
<cps> penguin42: I don't know *shrug*
<AlanBell>  evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell :)
<dutchie> hi AlanBell
<dutchie> how's belgium?
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/belgium.shtml
<MartijnVdS> "It's Belgium, man"
<brobostigon> VL'Hurgs, :)
<dutchie> haha MartijnVdS
<dutchie> why is mutt not moving read emails like it's supposed to? :(
<brobostigon> isnt the language in hitchhikers brilliant, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it is :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my other two favorites are the game http://www.starshiptitanic.com/ and the book ohthe same name.
<AlanBell> belgium is kind of flat
<AlanBell> but it has power and networking so I am OK with that
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: try the Netherlands, it's even flatter
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> I like Amsterdam
 * MartijnVdS works there :)
 * AlanBell proposes a loco weekend in Amsterdam
<MartijnVdS> venue might be hard to find
<cps> hmm
<cps> SIGABRT, I don't get the purpose of that
<cps> all wikipedia tells me that it kills a process
<MartijnVdS> cps: it aborts a process :)
<cps> MartijnVdS: yes but what is its purpose?
<MartijnVdS> cps: a program can use it to exit "somewhat cleanly"  if it detects an error by calling the abort() function
<MartijnVdS> cps: it'll then send itself a SIGABRT
<MartijnVdS> cps: or when it uses assert() to assert some input/value it's working with is valid
<cps> oh
<cps> hmm, can't reinstall gdm on my ubuntu desktop without an internet connection
<cps> evening chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hi cps
<cps> laggy internet :\
<cps> hmm, no choice but to reinstall :\
<cps> w00t!
 * cps loves the power of ctrl+alt+f1 ;)
<daubers> nom nom nom ice cream
<cps> daubers: nomnom
<cps> gdm reinstalled :)
 * DJones heats daubers room so he has a milk shake rather than ice cream
 * cps slaps DJones
 * exobuzz still has an empty cone
 * brobostigon is allowed, because of his dairy allergy.
<brobostigon> isnt* :(
<cps> brobostigon: :\
 * AlanBell has beer
 * DJones has a roast dinner
<MartijnVdS> Real Belgian beer?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: a lambic, perhaps?
<AlanBell> jupiler
<MartijnVdS> Ah, mass-produced beer :)
<cps> Miller Genuine Draft \o/
<AlanBell> cold and wet is sufficient for me to approve right now
<MartijnVdS> but you're in a country of beer lovers :)
<brobostigon> pink-floyd'athon part 2.
<cps> MartijnVdS: Would said country be Germany or Belgium?
<MartijnVdS> cps: Belgium :)
<MartijnVdS> cps: but tbh, Germany, Belgium and England are all known as beer-loving countries :)
<MartijnVdS> (and the Netherlands, being in the middle, profits :P)
<cps> :P
<cps> in Scotland it's nothing but buckfast for the neds
 * cps hates wandering the streets of glasgow alone
<MartijnVdS> cps: Scotland has their Whiskys
 * brobostigon lends cps his bat'leth
<cps> Of course, whisky is very popular up here :)
<DJones> Speaking of cold wet beer's, this is a scary idea http://bgood.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/guinness_black_lager.jpg
<brobostigon> welsh whisky is nice aswell, :)
<cps> brobostigon: sending me on a mission to kill?
<cps> but who is your target though? D:
<brobostigon> cps: to protect yourself from glasgow,
<MartijnVdS> The Welsh ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :(
 * brobostigon rocks out.
 * MartijnVdS pokes around cdrdao/wodim
 * cps finds wales rather boring tbh
<cps> the only place I find interesting is llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
<cps> just because of its long name
<Azelphur> I've been there
<cps> Azelphur: Llanfairpwll? :P
<brobostigon> mydad can pronounce that place's name.
 * DJones to
<brobostigon> i cant, :(
 * brobostigon wonders if DJones has any welsh blood ?
 * AlanBell wonders what a fillet of sandra is
<cps> AlanBell: lolwut
<AlanBell> I just ordered one as a starter
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: what's the French/Dutch name for it? :)
<DJones> brobostigon: Suposedly some generations back my great great ... great..great grandfather was station mast in in llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch but could just be a family legend
<brobostigon> DJones: interesting.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: that's back then there were 3 people in Wales.. and they're everyones great..great etc. ;)
 * brobostigon finds shine on you crazy diamond, rather sad a song.
<MartijnVdS> it is
<DJones> MartijnVdS: And one of those 3 was a sheep :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: iagree, but it always seems to reallyhitme.
<MartijnVdS> DJones: of course, it being Wales and all
<brobostigon> no making fun of the welsh, at this point please.
<cps> the welsh are awesome people tbh
<cps> ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Who - BBC Wales - :)
 * cps has a hot chocolate :)
<cps> cadbury highlights
<brobostigon> i wish i was at a lady friend of mine, so i could play drums to this.
<hamitron> o/
<Guest8715> hello
<hamitron> hi
<Guest8715> i need help
<Guest8715> plz
<hamitron> what is the problem?
<AlanBell> sandra is a fish
<Guest8715> what is the best torrent client in linux
<Guest8715> ?
<hamitron> leave poor sandra alone :/
<hamitron> that depends what you are looking for in a torrent client
<brobostigon> personally i like transmission, as i could get it working on haiku and beos.
<Guest8715> ??????
<Guest8715> i use vuze
<Guest8715> but i dont like it
<DJones> !torrent
<lubotu3> Torrent clients: Transmission (GTK and terminal-based), Deluge-Torrent, Freeloader, BitStormLite, BitTornado-GUI (GTK), KTorrent (KDE), QTorrent (Qt), Azureus (Java), TorrentFlux (web-based), bittornado, rTorrent, cTorrent, bittorrent, aria2 (terminal-based) - FAQ: http://www.bittorrent.com/FAQ.html - See also !P2P
<Guest8715> i used to use utorrent
<nperry> !info awesome
<Guest8715> when using windows
<lubotu3> awesome (source: awesome): highly configurable, next generation framework window manager for X. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.4.5-1 (maverick), package size 792 kB, installed size 2712 kB
<Guest8715> i need smthin like u torrent
<DJones> Guest8715: As brobostigon said, its what suits you, but hopefully thelink fromthe bot will give you an idea of which ones to try
<Guest8715> i tried many programs
<Guest8715> vuze is good but with 1 problem
<Guest8715> no autoshutdown
<Guest8715> and kind of slow
<Guest8715> ?
<DJones> I use transmission, it does everything i need, never bothered looking at anything else
<popey> ditto
 * hamitron likes aria2, but he doesn't do much torrenting
 * czajkowski hugs popey you rock 
<popey> i like the web interface to transmission
<popey> :) czajkowski
<Guest8715> ummmmm
<Guest8715> how to install bittorrent
<Guest8715> in ubuntu
<Guest8715> ?
<popey> sudo apt-get install bittorrent
<popey> !software
<lubotu3> A general introduction to the ways software can be installed, removed and managed in Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoftwareManagement - See also !Packages, !Equivalents
<hamitron> I'd encourage you to just try them all and see :) suppose utorrent also works on wine, but not a great option that
<popey> Guest8715: see that link
<popey> i also like rtorrent for a command line tool
 * hamitron is reading about rtorrent now
<hamitron> looks kinda cool
<Guest8715> i am just a beginner ( command line is a nightmare)
<davisc> Hang on, Ubuntu has a bittorrent client built in doesn't it?
<davisc> Transmission?
<Wolflfd> yes
<popey> yes
<Guest8715> ummmm
<Guest8715> first thing i did when i installed ubuntu
<davisc> Guest8715: Applications -> Internet -> Transmissions Bittorrent Client
<Guest8715> removing it and replacing it with vuze
<popey> or just double click a .torrent file :)
<hamitron> could the speed be down to network setup (port forwarding)?
<Guest8715> dont know but when i use vuze torrent speed is perfect
 * popey shrugs
<popey> I get full speed in transmission
<Guest8715> when i use other program it just remain 0 KBsec
 * davisc should have read up first
<popey> Guest8715: try them all and use the one you like
<popey> \o/ choice
<Guest8715> ok
<Guest8715> thnx
<Guest8715> all
<Guest8715> i will try transmission
<Guest8715> last question :)
<popey> feel free to keep the questions coming :)
<Guest8715> how to configure laptop shortcut keys
<Guest8715> thnx
<Guest8715> @ popey thnx
<popey> System -> preferences -> keyboard shortcuts
<Guest8715> i cant find this keys
<Guest8715> i have hp G62
 * brobostigon is using gnome-shell and cant remember the menu layout for progs, :(
<Guest8715> keyboard has buttons that open mail multimedia ..... etc
<Guest8715> also there is a button for wireless
<Guest8715> ?
<brobostigon> there mustbe something on help.ubuntu.com/community ,
<popey> brobostigon: hmm?
<brobostigon> for my eeepc there is a specific  package to enable those buttons.
<brobostigon> i cant remember.
<Guest8715> i have lenovo S10e
<Guest8715> and i lost some short cuts ssincce i installed ubuntu
<popey> such as?
<Guest8715> wireless
<Guest8715> bluetooth
<brobostigon> something like http://packages.debian.org/sid/eeepc-acpi-scripts maybe,
<popey> brobostigon: those are specific to that machine
<brobostigon> popey: yes, as i said, something similer.
<Guest8715> when i was using windows xp >>>i press Fn+F5
<Guest8715> to activate a window that allow me to activate either wireless or bluetooth or both
<popey> yeah, my toshiba is the same
<popey> but it works
<Garzooka> am I ment to be here?
<popey> dunno, are you?
<brobostigon> Garzooka: iamm sure youwould only comeby choice, :)
<Guest8715> i will try to post it as a question in linuxquestion
<Garzooka> yes I came by choice
<Guest8715> @popey thanx------it was nice to chat with u
<Garzooka> sorry ti
<Garzooka> sorry to bother you guys but is this nick good?
<Garzooka> or am I in the wrong place
<brobostigon> Garzooka: its good, :) like mine. :)
<popey> its fine
<Garzooka> thanks :)
<popey> However, if you know you're not meant to be here, then you probably should leave.
<piedro> hi
<brobostigon> moin piedro
<Garzooka> I am not sure wether I am ment to be here or not, thats why I asked
<popey> heh
<popey> Garzooka: have you been here before? Is this new to you? :)
<Garzooka> IRC is a new thing for mw
<Garzooka> me
<popey> cool, welcome
<popey> you use Ubuntu I take it?
<brobostigon> welcome Garzooka :)
 * brobostigon gets Garzooka a welcome drink
<Garzooka> in some cases yeah its 50/50 chance because I don't know what pc has what on it
<Garzooka> and the
<popey> :)
<Garzooka> is it possible for you guys to "go easy on me" because I am new here
<popey> sure
<brobostigon> always,
<popey> we usually do :)
<brobostigon> yeah :)
<Garzooka> I only said that because I was on YouTube and I saw some IRC arguments with some nicks in here which I am not going to mention
<popey> youtube is a whole different animal
<Garzooka> I guess so, my friend
<popey> however it appears you're actually Phineas / Ferb / Waffle
<popey> so everything I said goes out the window
<daubers> Why was Phineas / Ferb / Waffle banned to start with?
<popey> being a dick?
<daubers> Ah, I see
 * hamitron sighs
<Myrtti> fun
<gord> i want to be mad at ebuyer for delivering my product next day even though i paid for delivery on monday thus causing me to walk down to the post office tomorrow to pick up my stuff, but its hard to feel justified there
<gord> damn you excellent customer service *shakes fist at sky*
<Myrtti> I had similar experience with another shop
 * brobostigon also shakes fist at o2 website. for not showing his balences and data allowances.
<Myrtti> they promised delivery in 1-2 weeks for an eye-fi card, it came in there days - bf was in Berlin for two weeks and package was returned to sender
<brobostigon> its playing up, and timing out,
<Myrtti> three days, even
 * brobostigon shakes his fist again at o2's vat changes.
<gord> i just hate having to walk all the way down to the post office and then come back with a big box :( normally i can get redelivery but because this is through parcel force not royal mail i have to pick it up
<hamitron> :/
<Myrtti> got it eventually, then after setting it up for my sister on Christmas turns out her camera is so old the card isn't supported
 * hamitron is tempted to go mad at ebuyer and buy stuff ;)
<gord> ebuyer is the greatest, it really is
<popey> :)
<hamitron> I buy most my stuff from there
<popey> they are very nice people
<hamitron> I never spoken to them
<hamitron> just 2 faulty orders, and quick msg solved it :/
<brobostigon> perfect when i was living in sheffield, and being a few miles from their warehouse.
<hamitron> I will stop thinking about ordering now, or I will have an i7 before the end of the month...
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: they'd just walk over on their lunch breaks? :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "Here's your stuff"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: well, that never happened, :(
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: would have been amazing customer service though, :)
<gord> oh to be a nerd in their warehouse *dreams*
 * brobostigon has geeky dreams like that.
<directhex> ebuyer's warehouse isn't much of a nerd fantasy
<directhex> they're more of a bulk seller than a really nerdy seller
<directhex> could i get a level 10 from there?
<directhex> nein. i could get six hundred duplicates of the same midrange laptop though
<ali1234> whuts a level 10?
<directhex> ali1234, a fantabulously insane pc case
<directhex> ali1234, a nerd objet d'art
<directhex> ali1234, http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/wp-content/uploads/thermaltake-level-10-concept.jpg
<directhex> you either love it or hate it!
<brobostigon> oh,wow. interesrting,
<directhex> brobostigon, shame about the Â£600+ price
<ali1234> it looks nice but i wouldn't buy it. i bet it's way over-priced...
<brobostigon> directhex: ouch, yes, :(
<ali1234> my whole computer cost less than that
<directhex> mine didn't. but my cpu and gpu were both over Â£200 each. and my motherboard, come to think of it
<directhex> if i won the lottery, i would build a gaming room on my new luxury mansion, with four amazing gaming pcs. and i would use the level 10 as my case of choice
<brobostigon> interesting, :)
<hamitron> :)
<AlanBell> directhex http://www.atomchip.com/id2.html
<brobostigon> i imagined once having several multi-monitor linux workstations,
<hamitron> I'm still not sure wtf is wrong with my comp :/
<ali1234> AlanBell: is that one of those VC-trolling scam websites?
<AlanBell> something like that
<AlanBell> it has been going a while
<rww> directhex: wow, that looks nice
<hamitron> not my kinda thing :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Evening. R U There then?
<AlanBell>  yup
<AlanBell> just finnished my crepes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good journey?
<AlanBell> not bad
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am off to watch the snooker then zen. NN all.
<hamitron> nn TOS
<AlanBell>  adverts on the bbc website just feels wrong!
<directhex> AlanBell, i like to buy things that exist more than don't exist
<Oli``> AlanBell: adverts? where?
<Pendulum> Oli``: I think if you access from outside the UK
<Oli``> Pendulum: oh right
<Pendulum> what always throws me off about the adverts is that they're regionalised. So I see adverts for things that are very American on the BBC
<AlanBell>  directhex but there are patents and everything, must be good!
<AlanBell> hi pendulum
<Pendulum> hi AlanBell
<directhex> AlanBell, don't make me beat you with my patented stick
<AlanBell> lol
<rww> To be fair, that patent included the novel idea of reproducing the stick in plastic *facepalm*
<AlanBell> I expect it is a stick that does managed beatings
<MichealH> Hey all :)
<popey> evening all
<marxjohnson> hello hello
<popey> What ho marxjohnson !
<marxjohnson> what ho indeed!
<MichealH> Hi popey :)
<popey> hullo bobobex !
<MichealH> Hi SuperBoy
<MichealH> Uhh Tabfail
<MichealH> Hi supercosmonaut
<landstalker> using svn, can you update to a specific revision? I've just checked out revision 3760 for example, and the latest is 3800, I'm tracking a bug and working through them you see
<bigcalm> svn -r ###
<bigcalm> svn up -r ###
<landstalker> irritating bug thats made me question my whole set of scripts and waste hours being non-productive :)
<landstalker> thanks, will try that
<landstalker> will that work to downgrade it too?
<landstalker> it appears not, no problem :)
 * dutchie hugs git bisect for that sort of thing
<landstalker> just realised I can go up in twos, doh
 * brobostigon returns with takaway curry.
<landstalker> bug found, although it might not be a bug
<brobostigon> elaborate landstalker
<landstalker> well, automake files to automake in this program, it only happened recently but the comment from the programmer is:
<landstalker> "Change of boost macros - please make sure you favourite configuration still works"
<landstalker> well, my favourite configuration doesn't work :)
<landstalker> I've emailed the support list anywho
<landstalker> and the guy that submitted that code, I've worked with, so I should hear something back :)
<landstalker> hmmm, I'm doing something wrong here
<landstalker> trying to replace line that starts BINDIR={something changeable} with BINDIR=/opt/moses/moses-scripts
<landstalker> tried this
<landstalker> sed "s/\(^BINDIR=\)\(..*$\)/\1${BINDIR=/opt/moses/moses-scripts}/" Makefile
<ujjain> Is George Galloway respected in the UK?
<landstalker> not really
<landstalker> he thinks he is a Cat
<MonsterKiller> is there a way to view incomming connections on ubuntu server?
<brobostigon> http://www.jamesmolloy.co.uk/tutorial_html/index.html
<landstalker> netstat?
<brobostigon> Roll your own toy UNIX-clone OS
<ujjain> netstat -an works on both linux and windows? :p
<ujjain> landstalker: ah ok, tnx :)
<brobostigon> noswaith dda ttm / cps
<cps> noswaith dda brobostigon :)
 * cps looks over his railway tickets
<brobostigon> cps: anything interesting to lookforward to?
<cps> brobostigon, going down to preston with a few mates on the 22nd
<brobostigon> cps: preston, ah,
<brobostigon> cps: i am always finding train enhusiasts here in banbury.
<cps> brobostigon, http://www.youtube.com/user/midlandspotters
<cps> he used to live in banbury I believe :)
<brobostigon> cps: ah,
<brobostigon> lots of banbury,
 * cps is displeased that he has to pay a subscription fee to use ubuntu one on his android phone
<brobostigon> :(
<cps> hmm, I expect zsa zsa gabor to kick the bucket some time this year
 * cps signs his t-mobile top-up card
<brobostigon> cps: ihave probebly seen the man, i suspect, at some point.
<bduncan> hey guys. i'm trying to use the natty alpha in kvm, but for some reason it doesn't get past "Freeing initrd memory...". Any ideas?
<brobostigon> bduncan: i would suggest sking in #ubuntu+1
<brobostigon> asking*
<bduncan> cool, thanks
<bduncan> i thought there was someone in here using the alpha recently, just thought i'd check
<brobostigon> bduncan: they specialise, so it might be more productive,
<cps> omnomnom
<bduncan> k, i'll try to be a bit more specific when asking there :)
<cps> syrup sponge pudding
 * hamitron wants
<cps> MINE!!
<cps> ;)
<hamitron> :/
<cps> ;>
 * brobostigon does a Dr Who, jelly babies,
<hamitron> will have to make do with coffee and choc orange then
<cps> I used to like choc oranges, don't know what put me off them :\
<hamitron> 3 at once maybe?
<hamitron> ;)
<brobostigon> bduncan: people here use the development version aswell, however they sspecilise there for the development version,
<cps> go away :P
<cps> ergh, every sweet thing I eat makes me have the urge to drink milk lol
<hamitron> that sounds overly rich for me :/
<hamitron> white coffee and no sugar just resets the taste buds for more sweet stuff
<cps> of course :\
<bduncan> brobostigon: i got it to go. noapic, nolapic, acpi=off, nomodeset... one of those did it :P
<brobostigon> bduncan: nos da, :)
<cps> gonna reboot, brb
 * cps returns and says "noswaith dda" to brobostigon and gang :)
<brobostigon> cps: good night, or good evening ?
<cps> brobostigon, good evening :p
<brobostigon> cps: noswaith dda, then.
<brobostigon>  :)
<cps> :)
 * cps throws marshmallows at Azelphur 
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<cps> o/
<brobostigon> nos da ttm/cps :)
<bigcalm> With jQuery: how can I find out what the offset is for left and right hand edges of the view port if the browser has been scrolled horizontally?
<cps> brobostigon, nos da :)
<brobostigon> cps: :)
<lazarus_> hey
<cps> hey lazarus_
<lazarus_> cps: hey
<Azelphur> How do I listen for traffic on a port with netcat?
<Azelphur> and just have it print it
<AlanBell> netcat -l 3000
<AlanBell> then you can telnet localhost 3000 to talk to yourself
<Azelphur> AlanBell, on a specific ip too? :)
<AlanBell> erm netcat -l hostname port I think
<AlanBell> man netcat
<hamitron> yeh Azelphur, rtfm ;)
<hamitron> turn into a lazy user like me if you are not careful
<Azelphur> AlanBell, that's got it :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I think my server is being DDoS'g
<hamitron> :\
<hamitron> the game server?
<Azelphur> hamitron, yea
<hamitron> :(
<cps> zzzz
<cps> tired but can't be bothered going to sleep lol
<mgdm> 'lo Se	
<cps> hey mgdm :)
<Seeker`> o/
<cps> o/
<ADO> Hi, can anyone help me install Ubuntu 10.10 netbook on my eeepc please?
<mgdm> Hi cps :)
<cps> how're you?
<mgdm> lagged
<cps> lol
 * cps fiddles about with compiz
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-09
<cgriff> hamitron: I'm not one who can watch sports not even exciting stuff like rallying however if you were to give me a rally course and car, I'd probably be indebted to you forever
<hamitron> same
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> nearest I can get is simulations/games online
<hamitron> :/
<gordonjcp> never really got into watching sports
<cgriff> I will admit that I will watch an international game of rugby but other than that I can't stand watching them. I'd play games about them either IRL or virtually though
<ali1234> exciting... like rallying... wat?
<ali1234> even when they crash... it's boring
<cgriff> ali1234: You would honestly turn down the chance to have a day on a rally course?
<ali1234> well i can;t drive so there wouldn't be much point
<gord> i'm sure it would be fun up until the point where you die
<ali1234> fun until the first bend
<ali1234> then the car is upside down
<cgriff> I'd rather die in a ball of flames doing something fun than in a bed barely able to move to be fair. My brother's teh same
<AlanBell> is there a third option?
<cgriff> Radiation poisoning ;)?
<AlanBell> anyhow, speaking of bed, night all o/
<cgriff> Night \o
<gord> https://developer.ubuntu.com/2012/01/top-10-ubuntu-software-centre-app-downloads-for-december-2011/ neat
<Azelphur> Anyone know anything like gobby that doesn't suck?
<hamitron> Crossover Games is free?
<hamitron> bah, trial doesn't count as "free"
<hamitron> :/
<ejos> Is there any tftp server that works with the virtualbox pxe boot client
<ball> Is there any simple video editing software that works with Ubuntu? Nothing flashy, I'd just like to add a title at the beginning and perhaps prune out the odd section.
 * ball gives up and goes to bed.
<popey> Morning!
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/372040/ubuntu-tv-unveiled  \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is it Myth in the backend or completely new code?
<popey> its a concept âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> "its a concept" == "No backend as yet" then.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lenovo 55" TV with Android http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/lenovo-puts-android-4-on-55-inch-tv-and-10-inch-tablet.ars
<TheOpenSourcerer> "These products are all immediately available in China"
<DJones> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<daubers> Morning
<christel> morning beauties
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> yes
<danfish> MartijnVdS: Ray
<daubers> Noticed netflix is now available in the UK
 * daubers is very tempted
<MartijnVdS> danfish: ?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: sorry - mistype!
<danfish> morning btw
<christel> ooo
<MartijnVdS> Uh oh.. there's going to be chaos: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/09/mps-alcohol-drinking-guidelines
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: when the House of Commons bars are closed 2 days per week people might pay attention to that
<TheOpenSourcerer> A good friend of mine happens to be my GP too. He has recommended 21 units a day ever since I have known him. He's always in my local and is looking fine on it too ;-)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<dwatkins> 21 units would probably make me fall over.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: spread over the day, or at once? :)
<dwatkins> heh, even if just during a single evening.
<dwatkins> I used to be able to handle 5 pints in a night, any more and I'd just fail to be able to see.
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: is your gp that looney doctor at the rugby club by any chance?
<christel> :P
<dwatkins> perhaps he part owns the pub...
<MartijnVdS> Hubert J. Farnsworth?
<christel> (he is probably not a loon, but when i ran out of tramadol after surgery he prescribed me 2 months worth instead of a few days.. "just in case")
<christel> i like him, but he is not my regular gp
<MartijnVdS> hmm opioids
<christel> tramadol was rather fun i must admit
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: the backend is a myth
<bigcalm> That's enough scroll back for me
<oimon> bigcalm: anything good on the scrollback :P
<bigcalm> That's all I could be amused by
<popey> :D
<Laney> good morning
<Laney> how's .hu popey?
<popey> fun
<Laney> yeah that hotel is nice, and has decent enough pubs next door
<Laney> why did my home connection choose today to go down :(
<czajkowski> Aloha
<jussi> czajkowski: heya! hows the back?
<dwatkins> Laney: mine goes down once an hour if I'm watching streaming media online :-/
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :D
<czajkowski> jussi: good thanks
<czajkowski> jussi: hows things your end ?
<jussi> czajkowski: no news :/
<czajkowski> jussi: patiences
<Laney> I always have an SSH session to my home machine
<jussi> czajkowski: tell that to Sari
<Laney> might have to nip back at lunch and poke it
<dwatkins> Laney: dyndns?
<oimon> time for change of /topic to ubuntu tv/CES?
<dwatkins> sorry, I mean "do you use dyndns in order to know the IP address?"
<Laney> "static" ip
<Laney> so i just have a record in my domain
<dwatkins> heh, I used to have a fairly static IP with NTL
<AlanBell> there is an #ubuntu-tv IRC channel for those wanting to discuss/contribute to that
<AlanBell> Laney: it is slightly disturbing when you are out and your home stops responding to pings isn't it!
<Laney> yeah it is rather concerning :(
<shauno> I'm not sure how NTL 'invert' my IP address here.  if I replace my router, my IP changes.  if I put the old router back, I get the old IP back
<BigRedS> Hah, the year I spent on Virgin put me off monitoring the connection to home
<shauno> er, 'invent'
<BigRedS> shauno: dhcp leases are indexed by mac address
<shauno> yeah, but there was 3 or 4 months before I put the old router back
<BigRedS> yeah, leases can be incredibly long. There's no reason for them not to be now that most connections are always-on
<JGJones> Greetings all - is it just me or is the Netflix sign up page not allowing one to sign up on Ubuntu?
<dwatkins> JGJones: I was just wondering about signing up for that (witout using facebook)
<JGJones> Apparently there's an "sign up with your email" link if not using Facebook. I don't have a facebook account but even then I can't see a way to sign up with either method on Ubuntu
<dwatkins> I'm currently looking for that link
<dwatkins> Perhaps it doesn't work from the RoI
<JGJones> dwatkins, I've tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox -  link doesn't show (it's in the source though)
<JGJones> dwatkins, so am wondering if it's being blocked from showing up on non-Windows platform?
<oimon> try ua switcher?
<dwatkins> JGJones: perhaps
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<JGJones> oh wait...
<JGJones> whoops seem to be my fault...
<JGJones> /etc/hosts - facebook.com 127.0.0.1
<dwatkins> I can't see a link to avoid facebook.
<oimon> lol
<dwatkins> lol nice :)
<shauno> I just signed up with facebook .. you can unlink it again from your user prefs after signup
<JGJones> dwatkins, after removing the facebook.com in my /etc/hosts - I now see the sign up...below the Facebook login part - there's an "sign up with a email" below the facebook login
<JGJones> but sign up by email is via facebook? does that mean Facebook'll automatically make an account on my behalf??
<dwatkins> JGJones: I guess I'd best setup my proxy server - my internet access goes through Dublin
<shauno> it works from here, and I'm in the republic
<dwatkins> hmm
 * dwatkins tries ff
 * daubers will need to borrow a long cat6 this evening to try netflix
<dwatkins> interesting, Chrome fails to show me this, but Firefox shows it fine
<shauno> I kinda want to go down the beach & take pictures of helicopters (yes, I'm a nerd), but I'm not sure how polite that is when they're out there looking for floaters
<oimon> i wonder how long before we'll all need fake facebook accounts to sign up for stuff?
<daubers> They do say that if you're not signed into facebook it should work on their twitter stream
<JGJones> for UK...probably not long...over 30 millions accounts (just over 50% of population number)
<oimon> although there are 20 million cats+dogs in the uk, they must account for a lot of accounts
<JGJones> There is an email sign up link - but the fact that it doesn't show until I unblocked facebook is annoying. And I'll better not be getting emails from facebook after this.
<oimon> i know some dogs on facebook. all of their friends are dogs too
<davmor2> morning all
 * davmor2 hands czajkowski a soothing cup of Tea
<shauno> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Screen%20Shot%202012-01-09%20at%2011.02.10.png   that's as far as I got with netflix :/
<oimon> shauno: on apple or linux?
<shauno> on apple
<bigcalm> Call the number?
<shauno> heh, I'm not callin the US for tech support
<oimon> http://www.parisvega.com/how-to-fix-the-netflix-drm-error-n8151-in-google-chrome-for-mac/ ?
<oimon> they are talking about silverlight on that page
<oimon> netflix is silverlight too?
<JGJones> Yeah
<JGJones> hence no simple solution to play it on Ubuntu if any.
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: how you doing kiddo saw you tweets
<shauno> I Didn't realise I had silverlight installed; but reinstalling it does fix that, thanks
<oimon> :D
<oimon> now you realise there is nothing to watch
<JGJones> I'm mainly checking it out for subtitles support
<shauno> yeah.  very little european cinema, but a metric *bleep*tonne of chinese films
<shauno> hopefully they're still signing providers up
<JGJones> Lovefilm provide 0% subtitling with their steaming videos. According to Equality Act, it's not legal to do that, but then Lovefilm seem to be unable to get the licences required in order to show the subtitles while steaming(!)
<czajkowski> davmor2: not bad thanks
<bigcalm> Shall this be a subway Monday?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq_WaOLjdyQ
<oimon> http://www.ubuntu.com/tv now has a video
<popey> http://ubuntu.com/tv
<popey> :D
<oimon> lol
<shauno> dwatkins: from what I'm reading, the email link only shows up if you're not signed into facebook, which would explain your disparity between browers
<oimon> just selected the HD version and fullscreened it on my big monitor. looks nice
<popey> the video doesn't do it justice, its a lot smoother in real life
<dwatkins> shauno: aha, thanks :)
<oimon> i hope this gets into a freeview PVR
<dwatkins> oimon: it's available for the PS3
<oimon> dwatkins: i'm talking bout ubuntu tv, what u talking bout? netflix?
<oimon> popey: what hardware running on? ARM?
<popey> we have x86 and arm images
<dwatkins> oimon: oh sorry yes
<gordonjcp> popey: for Ubuntu TV?
<bigcalm> That was a nice video at 1080p full screen
<bigcalm> Was hoping it was going to look more like AlanBell's mockups though
<davmor2> popey: fancy not knowing that the tv site was up ;)
<popey> bigcalm: we used big buck bunny âº
<davmor2> bigcalm: There's no pleasing some people though :P
<bigcalm> popey: that did amuse me :P
<bigcalm> davmor2: too right
<Laney> what does it use for broadcast tv? mythtv?
<popey> not decided yet
<Laney> ah
<Laney> didn't know how much of it was a mock up
<Laney> (all?)
<shauno> opening with 'no more boxes / no more wires' is an odd one; are they looking at embedding this in the set itself? (rather than an stb)
<Laney> "In a TV." implies so
<bigcalm> Yes
<Laney> that's the impression I always had tbh
<oimon> companies like humax are already using linux in their pvr's. could be a good step for them to go ubuntu
<shauno> hm. that's a shame :/  interesting, but ..
<bigcalm> Which is going to be interesting for those who want to continue using cable and/or satellite
<Laney> why would it be incompatible with that?
<oimon> the advatage of a separate  freeview pvr is that it can be kept while the telly is upgraded..which happens a lot
<bigcalm> Laney: didn't say it would be, but you'd still have more wires and remotes :)
<shauno> oimon: or the other way around - I don't replace my TV outside of complete neccessity
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Happy with the one I have, spent enough on it
<bigcalm> I'm sure there'll be a stb version
<shauno> the only reason my telly's as young (5 years) as it is, was that it would have been complete insanity trying to bring my old one with my from the US
<danfish> the music in that video - a black eyed peas remix - who's the budding DJ at canonical then ;)
<bigcalm> For instance, I don't use my TV's remote for anything other than changing the source input. When watching VM cable, _everything_ is done though their 1 remote
<shauno> that said, I'd be really tempted if half the rumours about apple entering the market turn out to be close
<popey> the demo is running on commodity hardware
<popey> (a revo)
<dwatkins> I thought that was what AppleTV was all about.
<popey> so potentially you could run it on a set top box
<shauno> the appletv is basically an ipod with a hdmi port.  they've got all the pieces in place to do much better
<bigcalm> I forgot. Today cannot be a subway Monday. Returning to my daily wii fit workout and not eating
<bigcalm> T -3mins to self torture
<oimon> thursday is best subway day
<oimon> cheap BMT
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> I'm a sucker for the Chicken Pizziola(sp?)
<popey> oooh, lunchtime!
<bigcalm> Torture time :(
<bigcalm> RackSpace -> Bytemark @ 10.9MB/s :)
<shauno> anyone using dropbox headless, know how to set up 'selective sync' without the UI?
<DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: AlanBell: http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/01/uk-cabinet-office-betrayal-of-open-standards-confirmed/index.htm
<oimon> DJones: :(
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> MooDoo: you old hippy how are you
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreeeet youth :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: so photo shoot with the new camera is this?
<MooDoo> davmor2: speak english yoda :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: So photo shoot, with the new camera, is this?
<MooDoo> am i doing one?  or have i done one?
<MooDoo> sorry confused
<davmor2> MooDoo: You're doing the model day thingy aren't you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah yes, april
<davmor2> fair enough it sounded sooner
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'll get the images online when i've editied them
 * smittix is playing cannon fodder
<davmor2> smittix: An awesome old game
<MooDoo> smittix: fab game :D
<daubers> Ooooh... new laptop
<MooDoo> what you got daubers
<daubers> samsung thing :) i5 based
<daubers> will try and install precise on it shortly
<davmor2> wow samsung have gone a bit of the rails with their naming scheme now,  The Samsung Thing
<daubers> It's got 600b written on the case
<gord> 600 bee's?
<daubers> \o/ bee's
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgXwYWqd9Y
<czajkowski> http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/01/uk-cabinet-office-betrayal-of-open-standards-confirmed/index.htm
<hamitron> bah, 128k internet.... gone over download limit ;/
<daubers> czajkowski: Sad isn't it
<czajkowski> yup
<daubers> Should put in a FoI request for details on any lunches/dinners/presents given to the various gov departments involved by Microsoft
<oimon> +1
<oimon> telegraph are now covering the ubuntu tv story.
<oimon> which is an improvement over their previous CES story which featured name drop of apple in each paragraph - somewhat impressive since they are not there.
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> i moaned at the journo about it
<oimon> see that they are making toy guns for adults now? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8998520/US-Army-introduces-video-game-weapons.html
<ali1234> well it's about time someone rewrote mythtv from scratch
<directhex> ali1234, ?
<MartijnVdS> and fixed DVB stream parsing (EPG)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
<ali1234> no, EPG works perfectly with mythtv, it's about the only thing that does though
<directhex> MartijnVdS, EIT works fine with valid packets. problem is the volume of bad packets that the software can receive from the driver
<oimon> i've been waiting for a mythtv box that doesn't require setting up
<directhex> lollerskates
<MartijnVdS> directhex: My TV provider uses EIT for full EPG, but BBC seems to think that's below them and uses their own format, and uses EIT only for now/next
<oimon> the android tv screenshot looks lame http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/9001563/CES-2012-Google-Android-TV-announced-by-Lenovo.html
<directhex> MartijnVdS, you're talking DVB-S?
<ali1234> the big problem with mythtv is the user interface totally sucks
 * hamitron just uses an off the shelf device
<MartijnVdS> directhex: yes
<ali1234> hamitron: i can't do that because i don't have a TV
<directhex> MartijnVdS, yeah, could be worse. seen what virgin do with DVB-C?
<ali1234> also i don't have anywhere to put a TV
<hamitron> ali1234, Video In?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I've seen what Ziggo and UPC do to it. People cried that day.
<ali1234> HDMI video in?
<directhex> monitor with more than one input?
 * hamitron hasn't got HD
<ali1234> i'd be interested to see what this "one remote" looks like
<ali1234> considering that there's still the dash where you have to type stuff
<ali1234> is it just going to be a full size infra red keyboard?
<hamitron> I got one of them sony dvd/hdd recorders, then just fast dub to dvd, to get a video saved onto the comp
<hamitron> hassle I suppose
<hamitron> :/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: bluetooth
<ali1234> full size bluetooth keyboard?
<MartijnVdS> of course!
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> with a mouse
<MartijnVdS> or maybe a built-in touchpad
<ali1234> that will go down really well...
<popey> boxee remote is what we use in demos of ubuntu tv
<daubers> popey: Is this your seecret project?
<daubers> or is that something else?
<ali1234> picture?
<ali1234> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/09/boxee-remote-2010-09-01-600-wmark-01.jpg
<popey> thats the one
<popey> it's really nice in the hand
<popey> small enough to lose tho
<bigcalm> Oooo
<bigcalm> Bluetooth or wifi?
<bigcalm> Or other radio?
<popey> dunno
<popey> I'd have to google
<bigcalm> Not sure I'd want that as my _one_ remote though
<bigcalm> I do like pointing to things with the wiimote
<ali1234> personally i can't stand any kind of wireless controller
<bigcalm> ali1234: do you get off the sofa to change channels?
<ali1234> i don't have a sofa
<bigcalm> Beanbag?
<ali1234> i have a computer and a desk and a chair
<ali1234> i don't "change channels" i use mythtv
<oimon> hope it's a comfy chair
<ali1234> i use it through mythweb
<ali1234> with a keyboard and mouse - wired
<oimon> i take it you are single
<ali1234> goes without saying really
<oimon> if i was single i'd do the same, and not even have a tv or tv licence
<oimon> but my missis likes watching telly
 * daubers waits for laptop HDD to image
<daubers> Precise daily CD seems ok
<daubers> oimon: I have no TV licence \o/
<daubers> Don't watch broadcast :)
 * hamitron suspects there will be changes to tv license, to make it a requirement for streaming
<bigcalm> Eyeball tax!
<oimon> would be fair enough if you download the progs
<hamitron> oimon, agreed..... and even my parents do it on their tv now
<hamitron> so some may see it as a way to avoid "tuning in"
<hamitron> well, more than some.... enough to affect the amount of Â£Â£Â£ collected
<popey> daubers: maybe âº
<hamitron> how much data does iplayer transfer?
<hamitron> someone has gone crazy on my internet connection yesterday :/
<oimon> why are many ebooks on amazon Â£0.77 when they should be free?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: tax.
<hamitron> maybe to cover cost of kindle transfer over 3G?
<oimon> lazt/stupid tax?
<hamitron> how can something free have a tax on? :/
 * oimon goes to guternberg instead
<daubers> popey: You tease :p
<DJones> oimon: Don't forget you pay vat on ebooks as well :)
<oimon> not public domain ones that should be Â£0.00 :(
<oimon> it's probably better for me to download epubs than kindle format anyway
<CaMason> public domain doesn't mean free
<CaMason> I could take any public domain content and sell it for Â£9001
<Azelphur> Ubuntu TV looks interesting. I wonder how it will compare to MythTV
<oimon> CaMason: which is why they are taxing the lazy/ignorant when you should be able to easily get it for free
<CaMason> that's an argument that could be applied to most capitalism principles
<CaMason> also there are numerous open-source projects that create books that are public-domain, but they sell them at a profit and use the funds for their project. Anyone can download them for free, but others can support the project
<shauno> Public Domain doesn't mean it cost them nothing to produce either. One look at the Project Gutenberg books that have been auto-churned into ePub will show that there's manual effort in a well-produced end product
<CaMason> basically, it's the libre vs free concept
<CaMason> or 'libre vs gratis' to be more precise
<daubers> gah, caught myself zoning out by watching the size of my dd'd hdd image growing....
<Neoti_Laptop>  hi all... i have a simple but intresting question... if i get a win tv card to get satellite channels, configure TVheadend to send the channels in to xbmc-pvr but also open the port on my router to allow a friend to connect to my tvheadend session is that legal ? im only viewing freeview channels so will only stream them to a friend who does not have an arial ?
<oimon> http://www.therestartpage.com/ sad lack of linux on here
<Azelphur> Neoti_Laptop: I believe it's illegal to rebroadcast in any way, besides that, MythTV streams (which is what XBMC uses afaik) are absolutely huge and unless your both on insane 100mbit+ connections it won't work like that
<Neoti_Laptop> not using the mythtv plug in using TVHEADEND plug in as i dont like mythtv too much ...
<Azelphur> never knew that :)
<popey> Azelphur: its not quite clear cut about rebroadcasting live TV
<Azelphur> Neoti_Laptop: but yea, it's probably the same, I think the streams from the card are like 2MB/sec so you'll need like 16mbit/sec up which nobody gives you xD
<popey> there is a loophole in the law which is how TVCatchup etc type services are legal
<Azelphur> popey: fun
<Azelphur> popey: I wonder if that means torrenting TV shows in my usual habbits is legal (I usually torrent them as they come out and watch them I want, basically time shifting them)
<popey> no, it doesnt
<Azelphur> aww :(
<CaMason> actually I think re-broadcasting terrestrial UK TV is somewhat legal
<popey> there is a difference between re-broadcast of live TV, and torrenting which is redistributing pre-recorded content
<Azelphur> popey: isn't that what tv-catchup services are doing though? (redistributing pre-recorded content)
<popey> no
<popey> live only
<CaMason> if they are, they have permission to
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<popey> other services like SeeSaw do have agreements in place to stream pre-recorded library content
<popey> tvcatchup dont
<CaMason> tvcatchup used to - they had to remove it
<hamitron> torrents are often making the material available to those who should not have access, also
<popey> what was that other one that had a linux client for a while..
<CaMason> get_iplayer can be used to download BBC iplayer content, which is another grey-area
<Azelphur> popey: haha I can't remember it either, but I know the one your talking about
<popey> zoosomething
<CaMason> there were some documents published by Ofcom last year that indicated such activity would be deemed legal - even if it circumvented DRM
<Neoti_Laptop> humm..... so a grey area then .... ..... doh.... its never clear cut these things ... :P lol
<popey> get_iplayer doesn't circumvent DRM
<Azelphur> popey: Zattoo :D
<CaMason> technically, format shifting in the UK isn't legal
<popey> thats it!
<CaMason> I'll try and find the document... it was a bunch of proposals aimed at formalising what most people do anyway
<popey> like speeding, stealing pens from work...
<CaMason> precisely
<Azelphur> Neoti_Laptop: so basically legally grey area but you don't have the bandwidth to do it anyway unless you encode on the fly
<CaMason> speeding = increase speed limit to 80
<hamitron> Azelphur, get_iplayer lets those with not enough bandwidth watch stuff btw ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: fun :)
<CaMason> I use get_iplayer and stick stuff on my ipad for when I'm on the train
<Azelphur> hamitron: also I thought you wasn't a pirate ;)
<CaMason> and my phone
<oimon> anyone know what technology blinkbox use?
<hamitron> Azelphur, I watch bbc content in the UK, via iplayer..... not pirating
<oimon> the free stuff is flash, but wonder about the paid stuff
<Neoti_Laptop> thanks azelphur... and i do have the bandwidth 1GB of it ..... over fibre to his house next door... :P
<Azelphur> Neoti_Laptop: oh, why are you forwarding the port then? Just let him connect to your LAN.
<Azelphur> It'll be much faster :)
<Neoti_Laptop> i dont want him on my internal lan ....
<Azelphur> Neoti_Laptop: so subnet him, problem solved! :P
<Neoti_Laptop> internet - Middle LAN - Internal LAN he will connect to the middle lan ...
<Neoti_Laptop> ah subnet ....
<Neoti_Laptop> even better
<Azelphur> :)
<Neoti_Laptop> yet again thanks Azelphur
<oimon> why you have fibre to your neighbour?
<Azelphur> yw
<Azelphur> oimon: why wouldn't you? #occupytheinternet
 * Azelphur runs
 * oimon shoots
<Azelphur> haha
<Neoti_Laptop> we are geeks and was playing with fibre stuff a while ago and put it between our houses ... lol
 * oimon gets out the pepper spray
<Neoti_Laptop> i think all you need to know there is the word GEEK ... lol
<Azelphur> :D
<CaMason> one should know better than to ask "why?"
<CaMason> "why not?" is the only acceptable question in GeekTown
<Neoti_Laptop> :)
<gordonjcp> Neoti_Laptop: fair enough
<Azelphur> I may well be moving near to my brother and we've already talked about setting up something high speed
<oimon> one reason not to employ geeks
<gordonjcp> Neoti_Laptop: up here we used to have a bunch of 2.4GHz and 5.8GHz links between our houses
<gordonjcp> Neoti_Laptop: moved on from that stuff now though
<CaMason> oimon, I employ several!
<oimon> they spend all their time geeking and not solving real problems
<gordonjcp> so pretty soon the 26GHz NEC Pasolinks are getting delivered
<CaMason> oimon, not mine. I geek up and VNC into their screens
<Neoti_Laptop> CaMason employ me ... lol
<hamitron> oimon, haha
<Neoti_Laptop> then you can have nine geeks...
<Neoti_Laptop> gordonjcp nice
<gordonjcp> Neoti_Laptop: I plan on tuning them down to 24GHz so I don't need a commercial licence
<Neoti_Laptop> NICE!!
<Neoti_Laptop> LIKE IT
<oimon> anyone know about the impending changes in 2012 regarding radio frequencies?
<gordonjcp> oimon: in what context?
<oimon> wireless radio mics, etc
<CaMason> My office is 20 meters from the BT exchange... I wonder if there's any viability of a fibre link w/ BT
<oimon> i think i am required to changes the frequencies
<gordonjcp> oimon: oh, yeah
<gordonjcp> it's not something I really deal with but I can find out
<Azelphur> CaMason: If you live in Kent, not a lot of people realise you may be able to get VFast, which is very cool
<Azelphur> sadly I'm in a black spot for them :(
<oimon> http://www.dmmusic.com/acatalog/2012_Spectrum_Changes.html
<CaMason> Plymouth here
<oimon> i use 6 wireless mics and an wireless earpiece
<Azelphur> CaMason: hehe
<oimon> i'm getting interference issues.
<CaMason> quite far from Kent ;)
<Azelphur> CaMason: I'm so gutted I'm literally just out of line of sight for it, right on the edge of 100mbit :D
<CaMason> *sigh* it's taken the best of the day to install and patch a copy of Windows 7 for testing :/
<Neoti_Laptop> same here with Win XP .... sigh ... lol
<MooDoo> CaMason: didn't take me that long, but yeah it take a while,
<CaMason> mostly as I've had to keep checking, clicking, waiting... then check
<MooDoo> i did my sisters vista laptop the other day, took nearly 2/3 days at a few hours a day
 * jutnux awakens
<jutnux> Quick question: How do I stop losing connection when I put the computer to sleep?
<jutnux> I've Googled etcetera.
<bigcalm> You don't have a choice
<bigcalm> To sleep is to be off in essence
<jutnux> Of course it is, silly me :p
<jpds> Well, some stuff like SSH might start working again.
<oimon> how can i reproduce weird characters? e.g. Ã¤ without copy-paste
<bigcalm> alt gr + some numbers
<oimon> character map says U+00E4 ?
<Oli> oimon: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComposeKey
<jpds> oimon: Ctrl-Shift-U e4
<jpds> oimon: Space.
<Oli> So Compose-key (my altgr+rshift), ", a
<Oli> Ã¤
<Oli> List of compose-key keys: http://hermit.org/Linux/ComposeKeys.html
<oimon> thanks guys. i didn't have compose key configured
<jpds> Nothing weird about Ã¤ thought.
<oimon> the only prob with right alt is that it kills the right alt 4 behvaiour for euro symbol
 * oimon just noticed there's a right win key :-\
<oimon> how long has that been there?
<Oli> A while :)
<jpds> oimon: apt-get install unicode; unicode euro
<jpds> oimon: Ctrl-Shift-U 20ac
<oimon> i'm good now guys..thans for the myriad options
<Azelphur> Just stumbled on this re the wacky home networks convo earlier: http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/06/24/impressive-home-networks/
<jutnux> Last of my mocks done today \o/
<hamitron> jutnux, so we can mock you without retaliation? :D
<shauno> good lord Azelphur.  those make me feel like a luddite.
<oimon> today has been pathetic for productivity . i blame the 50% success rate in trying to sleep last night
<shauno> I hope I never need 10 terminals at home
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<oimon> i used to have 10 in my hallway
<shauno> I thought mine was starting to look bad having separate firewall & router
<hamitron> just to clarify, what is a normal number of comps in home these days? :/
<hamitron> at home
<hamitron> ;/
<christel> $lots
<oimon> single or married
<shauno> I'm not sure what you consider a computer anymore
<hamitron> single
<bigcalm> Then yes
<oimon> as many as the floor will support
<hamitron> ah, god then
<hamitron> :)
<christel> i have less computers in the house since acquiring a family
<hamitron> good*
<hamitron> so how many in a family home?
<bigcalm> Living with Hayley we have just 6 now
<bigcalm> Sod, 7
<bigcalm> I keep having to revise that number
<shauno> I'd say we have two computers.  what we actually have is firewall(debian), fileserver(debian), router(apple) in the office, two more routers dotted around for signal reasons, then his'n hers laptops, phones, an ipad, and a wee box under the telly
<oimon> unless yo're popey, then probably desktop + spare desktop, laptop , spare laptop, tablet, smartphones, kindle, low powered ARM device
<hamitron> I just wish people would stop throwing devices away, that I feel the need to save :/
<oimon> and a box of obsolete tech that i really need to throw out: psion revo, palm m505, old phones,
<bigcalm> 2 workstations, server, 3 laptops, netbook. Phones not included
<oimon> hamitron: want any of my junk?
<hamitron> sure
<shauno> oh, and an amiga in my room :D
 * hamitron facedesks
<bigcalm> Bugger, there's also the mythtv box. But that hasn't been used for a long time
<bigcalm> Should do something with that some time
<hamitron> oimon, nothing below i586 though, I have standards....
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i only have 2 computers and 2 netbooks
<oimon> why would anyone want old PDAs is beyond me, unless they have issues
<shauno> I don't think of things like myth boxes & such as computers anymore.  they're computer-shaped appliances
<jutnux> Can't wait for the RASPBERRY PI to come out
<jutnux> Home server, DNS/DHCP
<christel> my two year old son has two computers, i figure at this rate he'll gain one for each year
<christel> so i hope he'll move out by the time he's six
<hamitron> I've just failed recently, with my conslidation plans.... got a NAS to replace a full file server, now runs them both :/
<ormiret> oimon: old pdas ahve quite good processing power for electical power usage to make embedded stuff from...
<hamitron> consolidation*
<hamitron> devices live, to be used! damn it :/
<shauno> hamitron: I've an old 1.8GHz celeron that never gets used anymore.  if I could afford the postage, I'd send it to you just to laugh at your pile :p
<oimon> i have a broken apple g4 PPC in the loft
<ali1234> i have a cupboard filled with old motherboards and cpus
<hamitron> shauno, that would be an upgrade tbh ;/
<oimon> lasted two weeks till i broke it
<ali1234> and cdrom drives
<ali1234> for some reason i have more cdrom drives than computers by a factor of about 4
<ali1234> i have no idea where they came from
<shauno> I only built that celery because it's (bar the cpu) chip-for-chip compatible with the apple DTK from the ppc->intel transition
<oimon> i'm saving up to go to the dump with my dead laptops and computers
<hamitron> my oldest comp in use, is a p120
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> oof
<oimon> my first job involved a brand new compaq p133 on my desk
<oimon> in 1996
<hamitron> p133 was top of the range, when I got my p120
<hamitron> outta my budget
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I've 1GHz "under the telly" and 700MHz on the firewall.  anything below that goes out to recycling
<oimon> don't invite any women home whom you are interested in
<shauno> (ignoring the amiga, which has earnt it's place, damnit)
<oimon> i have a topfield pvr..no idea what kind of processor it has
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Hi
<hamitron> I'm tempted to drop everything below 300mhz soon
<shauno> I have the first-generation appletv.  it makes for a pretty SO-friendly xbmc box (given that my telly is only 720p, at least)
 * hamitron is lucky enough to have avoided Apple gear
<hamitron> ;D
<shauno> I'm glad htpc is finally starting to catch on as a "ready-to-ship" consumer unit, because previously, the fact that my wife doesn't want an atx tower sat beside the TV has gone largely ignored
<oimon> bought an imac for colleague that arrived already borked
<hamitron> shauno, hehe
<shauno> in this house, anything with a screen is apple-based.  anything without a screen is debian or ubuntu  (And we're working away from ubuntu)
<daubers> Precise install process, oinly found one bug
<hamitron> 12.04 is ubuntu's last chance here :)
<oimon> hamitron: what's it gotta do to impress you?
<hamitron> work
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> it will be for higher end comps only
<oimon> i used to upgrade every 6 months until 10.04
<oimon> cos times were exciting back then
<directhex> when you were a lad
<oimon> now there haven't been any compelling features since 2010
<directhex> and ice creams were tuppence ha'penny
<hamitron> aiming to have all 32 bit machines on slackware, then 64 bit on ubuntu
<oimon> when we used to play in the street
<oimon> found a bunch of 5.xx ubuntu cd's t'other day.
<hamitron> 5.10 was actually my favourite
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> think i used 4.10 first
<shauno> I used to build gnome from sauce twice a month.  then things got boring when canonical (or "no-name-yet.com") kidnapped jdub so garnome died.  then I kinda idled until apple moved to intel
<hamitron> 8.04 was good too
<oimon> 8.04 started getting wireless issues and video issue with intel not long after.
<hamitron> 10.04 is good, apart from it cost me so much time trying to get it working on older machines, I've grown to hate it
<hamitron> I never had wireless
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> 8.06 served me well as a server for a long time.  no complaints
<directhex> i liked 8.04
<directhex> it looked good
<hamitron> was slick too
<shauno> now, they barely want to know you if you're not running on amazon.  so my next itteration is moving back to debian
<directhex> unlike some of the fail designs between 8.10 and 10.04
<oimon> it's a sign of success for me , because there were nasty bugs in every release until 10.04 for me
<oimon> weird kernel bugs too
<oimon> e.g. kernel wouldn't boot 4/10 on a battery < 15%
<hamitron> if 12.04 fails, dunno what to do :/
<hamitron> may try 32 bit slackware, with PAE?
<Laney> fifteen miles, uphill both ways!
<bigcalm> :D
<oimon> suspend still don't work for me though :(
<oimon> on desktop
<shauno> I haven't tried slackware since my 386.  And I'd be surprised if it's changed much.
<shauno> sounds perfect for hamitron ;)
<hamitron> shauno, uses all the latest software... like normal
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> admit, the setup hasn't changed much
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> well, it has
<hamitron> but feels nice and old still
<oimon> can any clever people help me merge an ogv video and ogg music file together?
<shauno> I'll never forget that install, because I wound up with slackware because it was the only distro that'd let me use two floppy drives, instead of one drive + ramdisk, to complete the install with <4Mb ram
<hamitron> oimon, man ffmpeg
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> ffmpeg produces a file that is the length of the shortest file
<oimon> maybe i'm holding it wrong
<hamitron> shauno, 4Mb ram support was dropped in slackware 11.0 sadly
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> i should probably ask MartijnVdS, he's good for that kind of question
<shauno> bummer.  worked fine in 3.3
<hamitron> 2.6 kernel is a beast
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> someone should make a distro aimed at grumpy old men.  I *know* there's a market for it
<hamitron> my fav distro of all time was actually slackware 8.1 though...
<hamitron> shauno, hell yeh!
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> basically freebsd for people who think that bsd is too wierd
<DJones> grumpbuntu
<oimon> opening firefox would actually open lynx embedded
<hamitron> guess I'm not a grumpy old man of the past then, I prefer firefox.... 1.5
<hamitron> ;/
<oimon> what was it called before ff?
<hamitron> nutscrape
<oimon> firefly or something?
<oimon> between nuts and fox
<davmor2> oimon: use openshot or pitivi
<hamitron> oh, lemme look
<hamitron> I still got it
<oimon> davmor2: that will re-encode the file though?
<shauno> lynx embedded?  you know there's a framebuffer version of elinks, right?
<oimon> (or will it?) want to mux without encoding
<davmor2> oimon: save it out as a different file
<oimon> davmor2: i'll try. should take 1 minute rather than 29 mins :..
<shauno> I thought oggtools included a muxer
<directhex> oggmux!
<oimon> shauno: failed for me
<directhex> muxing is fragile
<shauno> ogmmerge?
<oimon> ogmmerge: Error: the reader for out-1.ogv did not produce a header page.
<hamitron> oimon, can't remember
<hamitron> I got v0.5
<oimon> firebird
<hamitron> I not called it that
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=4278
<oimon> The standalone Mozilla Firebird browser has beenÂ renamed to FirefoxÂ and received an upgrade to version 0.8
<hamitron> I found WinLinux 2000
<hamitron> :D
<directhex> pfft
<directhex> mozilla phoenix!
<oimon> hamitron: are you that guy who i saw on telly with newspapers up to the ceiling?
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Firefox#Naming
<oimon> he had a crawl space of only 2 feet to travel between rooms
<hamitron> hehe, I just keep all apps and drivers I've downloaded.... in case
<shauno> my inner 12yo thinks that sounds fun
<hamitron> especially old win95 drivers and stuff
<shauno> I actually do that.  I have an external drive called 'vault' which has anything which I believe may be ruined in later releases
<hamitron> yeh
<oimon> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076822/Richard-Wallace-hoarded-rubbish-seen-space.html
<hamitron> and drivers for old devices, are sometimes hard to find
<oimon> he's skinny becuase it takes hours to reach the kitchen
<oimon> "Mr Wallace warns that obsessive collecting is not a good idea as it takes over people's lives" --let that be a lesson mr hamitron
<hamitron> one of my latest habbits... when I download something like openoffice.org, I download EVERY build of that version :/
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> it does ;/
<shauno> that's a little .. odd
<hamitron> better than downloading a set of ISO for CentOS, marked "i386", to find they are in fact "i686" \o/
<hamitron> man that annoys me
<shauno> i386 generically means "32bit" now.  I wish they'd find a better way to term that
<hamitron> i686 works
<hamitron> ;/
<jpds> hamitron: Can't you just... get with the future?
<jpds> It's 2012.
<shauno> yorkshire and future don't mix well ;)
 * hamitron spanks shauno 
<oimon> however, yorkshire and pudding does
<shauno> eee by gum!
<hamitron> intel are still doing research work with i586 you will find
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> so maybe I am in fact ahead? ;)
<hamitron> but it is still not an excuse for naming things incorrectly
 * hamitron growls
<shauno> reminds me, I have to figure out if there's anything interesting to do in london next sunday evening
<jpds> Say hi to amd64.
<MooDoo> by eck lad, yorkshire pud hmmmmm black pudding and bacon breakcakes yummy
<oimon> anyone interested in this? http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/event/2715934433
<oimon> At the fifteenth OSHUG meeting we'll be taking a look at wireless technologies. We will hear how you can repurpose low cost commodity equipment, we will be given an introduction to RF basics, and we will learn about the Contiki operating system
<oimon> here's hoping tomorrow will be more productive
<shauno> my favourite northern phrase (which I think might be yorks specifically), is "ff tha' ever does owt for nowt, allus make sure tha does it for tha sen"
<shauno> ugh, *if
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> (I'm born a southerner but spent 20 years in the north & scotland.  the result is a helluva'n accent)
<DJones> shauno: With that mixture, it must sound like klingon
<shauno> it's actually not too bad.  me ma's from oxford, and that's what seems to come out as the general theme
<hamitron> that isn't bad? :|
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> but spending 20 of my first 21 years up with the scary hairy northerners creeps in on a fairly regular basis
<shauno> but for kicks 'n giggles, 5 years in the US, 5 years in Ireland, and a geordie father .. just make the mix a little more difficult to place
 * oimon has only ever spent 3 years outside of a 4 mile radius of his birthplace
<oimon> or including time spent at work, extend that to 12 miles
<hamitron> same oimon
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> oh gosh.  I think I spent less than 3 months within 50 miles of my birthplace
<hamitron> well, 12 miles
<oimon> my son was born in the same hospital as me, and will go to same school
<shauno> I was only born where I was because me pa was at sea, so she went running home to her mum
<hamitron> I think it was nicer when everyone didn't travel all over tbh
<shauno> I've now lived in the south-west, north-west, north-east, and both coast of scotland.  and then the US & Ireland.  and not in that order
<hamitron> "locals" making up the majority
<shauno> if the rumours pan out, my next move is going to be to romania
<hamitron> you looking forward to that? :|
<jutnux> oimon: My dad was born in the same hospital and I've gont to the same school ;)
<shauno> oddly, yes
<hamitron> I couldn't do it
<hamitron> just not my sort of thing
<shauno> well, see .. most my family were in the navy.  my mother, my first two fathers, more uncles than I can keep track of, several grandparents, etc.
<shauno> so this is the life I've grown up with
<hamitron> yeh
<shauno> I can see that if you grew up in one place, the momentum is to carry on doing the same.  and there's nowt wrong with that
<hamitron> I tend to prefer to stick to places with a similar culture
<hamitron> aye
<jutnux> I'm moving out of the rubbish dump
<hamitron> I'm slowly having to accept I may have to move for work
<hamitron> that or a life on benefits
<bigcalm> hamitron: you could try working from home
<shauno> that's the bit that doesn't feel right at all.  that destroys communities
<hamitron> bigcalm, I do
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> people not talking to their neighbors destroys communities
<shauno> I think if everyone moves, it's difficult for places to keep their own character.  however, myself, I'm more than willing to be the one that does move
<directhex> the british are massively reserved and avoid talking to strangers
<hamitron> directhex, shauno, agree
<directhex> stupid brits.
<shauno> there's rumours that in the next 18 months, we're going to be told to relocate to romania, or take redundancy.  and I'm totally willing to be the one that relocates
<hamitron> I prefer the british way, directhex ;)
<MooDoo> we're better than people in new york.....
<directhex> whoaaaaa i'm an alien
<shauno> well, yes, we don't shoot our neighbours, for the most part
<directhex> i'm a legal alien
<directhex> i'm an englishman in new yooooork
<hamitron> shauno, we don't? :|
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I don't!
<shauno> altho I have been shot by a farmer.  with salt-pellets.  which was more embarassing than painful.
<hamitron> I shot my neighbours lights out
<hamitron> too bright on a night :/
<davmor2> shauno: you're not in wolverhampton manchester birmingham or coventry then right?
<shauno> davmor2: hah.  nah, I've lived north & south, and nowhere in between
<shauno> altho manchester used to be our idea of a good night out
<davmor2> shauno: haha
<shauno> the only downside was the first train home was 6am
<hamitron> perfect
<hamitron> :D
<shauno> heh.
<shauno> there was more than one evening where we spent far too long with no-one but a homeless buy & the btp to keep us company in that station
<hamitron> btp?
<shauno> the transport police
<hamitron> heh, didn't realise there was such a thing
<hamitron> ;/
<jpds> MooDoo: I read "we're better than people" and I stopped reading.
<shauno> the railways have their own bobbies, who like to make sure you've got a good reason for sleeping in their stations
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> BTP? Better Than People?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Transport_Police
<davmor2> christel: You could always stop buying them?  computer convo from earlier
<christel> davmor2: don't be so sensible!
<christel> :P
<hamitron> shauno, I believe ya, internet too slow to load that link ;)
<davmor2> christel: Me and sensible pfffffffff!!!!!!!!   /me picks himself up off the floor
<hamitron> anyways
<hamitron> time for food
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> bbl o/
<shauno> almost related, I was in the UK last week .. were 20 pound notes always that big?
<shauno> it's difficult to explain how wrong it felt when I went "home" and all the money felt daft
<davmor2> shauno: no twenty pound notes are tiny now you must of had counterfeit notes
<shauno> davmor2: newcastle, so that's a strong possibility
<shauno> I'm back over next weekend for a funeral, but dahn saff this time.  ugh.
<shauno> (or up north, depending on how you view the watford gap)
<davmor2> shauno: I view the watford gap as a huge hole in time and space that only the hardy northerns can make it through :D
<shauno> oxford's not *that* bad
<shauno> altho, I used to live in barrow in the north-west.  before I moved there, the navy lads described the a590 as a time tunnel too
<shauno> you turn off the M6 at junction 36, go back 30 years, and arrive in barrow :/
<shauno> grrr the ntl box didn't record sherlock
<brobostigon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16474951 :)
<awilkins> Bah, trains
<MartijnVdS> hmm trains
<awilkins> Freezing my extremities on platform for 25 mins is scheduled.
<awilkins> Miss train by 30 seconds
 * MartijnVdS has 4-6 trains/hour on the work<->home route
<awilkins> Ewww, I thought 2 hours each way was bad
<MartijnVdS> also, heated stations with coffee bars
<awilkins> At least yours are comfy efficient Dutch trains
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: we complain about our trains as well ;)
<MartijnVdS> they tend to break down in holiday periods, when they reduce train frequency
<MartijnVdS> so IF you have to wait, you have to wait long
<awilkins> You wouldn't think this was a station in a major (top 5) city in the uk.
<MartijnVdS> Which city?
<awilkins> Manchester
<MartijnVdS> isn't that one of the first "train cities"?
<awilkins> Victoria station. I suppose it has a pub.
<MartijnVdS> full of angry travelers
<MartijnVdS> would-be ones anyway
<awilkins> The trains are these old sardine cans they stuck bottlecaps to and put on the rails.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: I get these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VIRM6.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Or these (with on-board wifi): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koploper_08-10-2006.jpg
<awilkins> That is an *awesome*  train
<awilkins> Double decker!!!
<MartijnVdS> yes! and it's often so full people need to stand :|
<awilkins> That one has a certain Soviet Bloc charm.
<awilkins> And Wifi... I'm lucky to get a mobile signal for half my journey.
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: at least it's not the "duck"
<awilkins> But ditto with the standing
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: the high-speed train from Amsterdam to Rotterdam (and soon Antwerp): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fyra_Vught.jpg
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: that one is _ugly_
<awilkins> I drive now - only do trains when wifelet is on call
<awilkins> The fuel for a week costs less than 1 persons railtickets for 2 days - no contest.
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<popey> fuel, tyres, exhaust, servicing...
<awilkins> Yeah, but 2 people sharing
<awilkins> And we'd have the car anyway
<popey> like you have a house anyway?
<awilkins> In the sense that we have a use for both other than going to work .. yes
<awilkins> We get these trains : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:142041_Northern_Rail_Castleton_East_Jcn.jpg
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Wow.. squart!
<MartijnVdS> square
<awilkins> They're so crap, they overheat in summer unless they run the cabin heating full blast
<cgriff> Northern Rail, not one of the best UK providers
<awilkins> Them and Transpennine
<awilkins> At least Class 185s move
<cgriff> First Great Western are rather good for me
<awilkins> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_185
<gordonjcp> ahaha
<gordonjcp> pacers
<gordonjcp> basically a 1970s Leyland bus with different wheels
<awilkins> They were last built in '86, didn't realise
<MartijnVdS> We also get http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SprinterLightTrain2402b.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SGMm_2983.JPG for short distances
<gordonjcp> awilkins: yup
<gordonjcp> now you'd think that since the technical requirements for a little DMU like that and a normal bus aren't *that* different it would be dead easy
<gordonjcp> take the bus engine and gearbox
<awilkins> They fail so often they end up with 1 unit on the morning commute which makes for a lovely view of someones armpit and punchups on the platform.
<gordonjcp> stick it in an existing DMU bokey
<gordonjcp> *bogey
<gordonjcp> sweet
<gordonjcp> however what they don't take into account is that in a DMU the engine is run pretty much flat out for most of each trip
<gordonjcp> and the radiators aren't sized accordingly
<gordonjcp> with hilarious consequences
<awilkins> Baked passengers.
<awilkins> They run the heating to cool the engine off in summer.
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> it's a handy tip actually
<gordonjcp> if your car is overheating stick the heater on full blast and see if that helps
<MartijnVdS> works for cars too
<gordonjcp> it might make the difference between getting to a layby and breaking down on a blind bend
<awilkins> We seem to be getting some new rolling stock though. Second hand from Network West Midlands -they've not finished scraping off the logos and repainting them yet.
<awilkins> A shame we'll never get those Dutch double deckers. Our tunnels are too poky.
<gordonjcp> IIRC the Leyland bus they based the Pacer on used a Leyland marine engine
<gordonjcp> 8 litre straight-six
<zleap> lol,  in the south west we are getting 2 new carriage I think
<gordonjcp> heads and cylinders cast as a unit so there's no head gasket to fail
<gordonjcp> but on the other hand just about everything involves pulling the engine out and taking the crank and pistons out >.<
<awilkins> I used to love that old stock down south with a corridor and doors and cabins with seats facing each other - I think they used them on Hogwarts Express
<gordonjcp> IIRC the technical manual for those engines came with an extensive encyclopedia of rude words
<AlanBell> awilkins: some stock like that is still running on a heritage line near me, they do a regular steam pulled beer train which is great
<AlanBell> http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<awilkins> Ah yes, remember that from my youth.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Back?
<zleap> wb
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, back now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch! http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2012/jan12/01-04CometPR.mspx
<awilkins> OOps. Surely only the OEM license should matter though...
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: that happened last week
<AlanBell> I suspect it is a power and control issue
<awilkins> I found it very annoying that reinstalling my daughters laptop (OEM license) from my retail disk may or may not be illegal
<directhex> it is a power & control issue
<AlanBell> comet did something outside the terms of the agreement (alegedly)
<directhex> currys were being consumer-friendly by providing reimaging CDs, which were useless without the legitimate license keys affixed to the laptops
<directhex> microsoft don't like consumer-friendly
<TheOpenSourcerer> I thought this Press Release was todsy - I did see the discussion last week but didn't think it was "official". But the date on that release is last weel so I will go and crawl back under my rock.
<awilkins> They were *selling* them, not entirely selfless act... I bet the markup was quite profitable
<AlanBell> so there will be an out of court settlement and comet will agree to a more restrictive contract
<awilkins> Knowing Comet they priced them like a 3 year warranty..
<jutnux> I thought Dell sold recovery discs also?
<awilkins> Dell ones only work on Dell hardware
<awilkins> (unless you rip em and delete the ID file)
<directhex> currys ones were per-hardware images
<directhex> i.e. one image for an hp foobarbaz, one for a packard bell shonkmeister2000, etc
<directhex> basically pre-burning those painful recovery partitions you get on modern computers
<awilkins> Did they roll the drivers in? That's substantially more useful than he default Windows ones.
<TheOpenSourcerer> After spending 2 days updating a Windows 7 Virtual Machine from clean to latest patches, I really wonder why people still buy their software. It's crap. I lost count of the number times it had to reboot and then get some more stuff, then do something silently for ages, then reboot again...
<awilkins> Had to spend 2 hours burning DVDs for the daughter laptop
<directhex> awilkins: indeed. specific images with all drivers
<awilkins> I had win7 reboot 5 times for updates a day or so after I installed it.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: lock-in.
<TheOpenSourcerer> A brand new vm for Win7 with no extra apps is now 19.5GB!
<awilkins> Reported by windows or size of disk image?
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's the size of the VBox dynamic image file, as reported by Ubuntu.
<awilkins> Yick
<TheOpenSourcerer> My XP VM, which is years old and been used frequently, is less than 10GB
<awilkins> Yeah, I have one with a full VB6 devkit and MSDN library that's only 8gb
<awilkins> But I avoid Windows for work as much as possible now.
<awilkins> The images they use at work spend more time doing ICTs bidding than mine.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I only really use them for testing web sites in various versions of IE, and now a new vtiger CRM plugin for Outlook. But that's all I use them for,
<awilkins> Our IT policy is going into super#paranoia mode. If they actually enforce it we won't be ablw to work.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: amd64?
<awilkins> All apps must be approved, Â£2,000 a pop for approval.
<awilkins> Eclipse
<awilkins>  is not on the list
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: win7 is about 10 gig smaller than vista
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: amd64 what?
<directhex> windows
<TheOpenSourcerer> Host?
<awilkins> along with about 100 other packages on my windows machine
<directhex> it's about 8G bigger than i386
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhh! I did install the 64bit version, yeah.
<awilkins> Fat chance of us tumping up Â£200,000 to continue working...
<directhex> it needs 64-bit versions of all the libs and many apps, y'see
<TheOpenSourcerer> So it's multi-lib
<directhex> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK. TY, that makes more sense now.
<directhex> still, 19.5G seems an overestimate
<directhex> remember it makes a restore point for every windows update invocation
<TheOpenSourcerer> But my Ubuntu Desktop is 64 bit and with all the apps takes about 4G IIRC.
<directhex> so you'll have backup versions of many of those libs
<awilkins> VDI files grow but don't shrink
<TheOpenSourcerer> awilkins: Yes, I know that too.
<awilkins> I think the SxS stuff on windows actually uses hardlinks too (!)
<awilkins> But yes, Ubuntu uses peasly disk space in comparison
<TheOpenSourcerer> As I said when I started, I'm amazed people still buy the stuff, it's pretty crap really.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The power of Marketing and lock-in.
<awilkins> Comparing the installers is very informative.
<awilkins> Windows installer hasn't had to improve in years.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Cairo Context/Surface to Gdk Pixbuf - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/cairo-contextsurface-to-gdk-pixbuf/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hah! "Steve Ballmer just jumped on stage at #CES demonstrating the huge advances made in stage strengthening technology"
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Harsh, true but harsh
<AlanBell> wow HP servers are *noisy*
<TheOpenSourcerer> Being a fully paid up member of the FB club myself, I'm allowed to say that :-)
<davmor2> AlanBell: they do sound like Jet till the kernel kicks in
 * TheOpenSourcerer hopes AlanBell isn't going to install some non-production ready version of an operating system...
 * AlanBell is downloading precise server for totally unrelated reasons
<AlanBell> just sticking a live 11.04 desktop in for now to get the specs of it
<jutnux> Walking a friend through some parts of Ubuntu \o/
<jpds> There's a place called Ubuntu?
<ubuntubhoy> is it possible to set an app to appear on all desktops?
<jutnux> jpds: It's located in France, London.
<jpds> ubuntubhoy: Right-click the title bar.
<ubuntubhoy> not in title bar, its on-board
<ubuntubhoy> I want it to appear on all desktops when started
<ubuntubhoy> that way when minimised the icon is on all desktops
<ubuntubhoy> as opposed to just the one it was minimised on
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: onboard should do that anyway I think
<ubuntubhoy> it doesnt
<ubuntubhoy> well, not that I can find how
<jacobw> evening
<ubuntubhoy> unless gnome shell is the issue
<ubuntubhoy> maybe have to try with unity
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: in the onboard preferences there is an option to show always on visible workspace
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: what version of Ubuntu?
<ubuntubhoy> 11.10
<AlanBell> I am running the upstream version of onboard from trunk, but I think that option has been there a while
<ubuntubhoy> using proposed
<directhex> awilkins: the vista installer was light years ahead of the older 2k installer though (used by xp and server 2k3)
<directhex> awilkins: couldn't even load drivers in the nt5 installer from anywhere but A:\
<AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: running 3d or 2d?
<ubuntubhoy> neither, gnome shell
<AlanBell> err, oh
<ubuntubhoy> but cant find the option for all workspaces
<AlanBell> in the general tab, under desktop integration
<jutnux> Can't wait for these Raspberry PIs
<ubuntubhoy> nope, not there for me
<ubuntubhoy> unlocking status & tool tips only
<AlanBell> :(
<ubuntubhoy> not a biggie, just really wondered
<AlanBell> I will have a look on my less hacked about desktop later, can't now because a big fat server is in the way
<AlanBell> upstream onboard is great, it fades in when you are on an editable field
<ubuntubhoy> thats what I really want
<ubuntubhoy> might have to look into that
<zleap> when is the next podcast thing on ?
<DJones> !podcast
<lubotu3> Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<DJones> Thought that might have had a date on it
<zleap> 21-12-11
<zleap> so nearly 2 weeks ago
<awilkins> So, Ubuntu TV ... want?
<ubuntubhoy> not unless you can theme it
<ubuntubhoy> fugly son of a bitch that it is
<awilkins> Doesn't look like MythTV, looks like a bunch of lenses backing onto some kind of service (that might be MythTV, or something else)
<awilkins> I'm sure you can remove the Ubuntu Purple wallpaper
<awilkins> The big question of course is, will the sources be available....
<awilkins> "ubuntu TV prefers GPL v3"
<awilkins> Nice
<zleap> you can change the desktop background in 11.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Jasper Carrot, followed by Horizon - Hunt for the Higgs, on TV tonight. Laterz.
<jacobw> when's 'hunt for the higgs'?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I hate to ruin you're night but the higgs is over there in the large hadron collider the end ;)
<zleap> Horizon at 21:00 is about the search for the higgs boson
<AlanBell> what is an easy way to do tail -f to an IRC channel?
<AlanBell> with irssi or a bot or something, I want it to speak each line of a file as it happens
<brobostigon> jasper carrott, now, bbc1, good comedian.
<swat_> very impressed with 12.04 :)
<swat_> so far
<dutchie> AlanBell: i'm sure you could throw a shell script or something fairly quickly
<czajkowski> hmm having some issues http://twitpic.com/85czwx/full
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I blame davmor2
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: that's very similar to the graphics corruption I get
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'd say with a bot
<bigcalm> Or, with a irssi perl script
<czajkowski> gordonjcp: kinda doing my nogging in this evening
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/corrupt.png
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/corrupt2.png <- more obvious what's going on there
<zleap> hmm,  on 11.04 if I run amsn then minimise this to the side bar thing, it seems to crash and won't let me re-open it,
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, I am thinking custom python bot, then I can do the real magical part which is read stuff from the channel and pipe them into X as keystrokes
<j0nr> helloall
<j0nr> with a space
<j0nr> I got a new laptop. It has come with Win7. I haven't looked in detail yet whether it has multiple partitions... but I do plan on resizing the windows partition so I can dual boot windows...which I have done many times before...
<j0nr> I havent turned it on yet as I want to do it right first time
<j0nr> I am planning on creating an image as it is out the box with clonezilla, so if anything goes wrong, I can restore it to out-of-the-box condition
<j0nr> should I do this before or after I resize partitions for ubuntu
<j0nr> ?
<AlanBell> hi j0nr
 * AlanBell has no idea, but thought I would say hi
<popey> i would personally not do what you plan to do
<popey> i would boot into windows, and use the recovery tool to make the installation media _first)
<popey> s/\)/_/
<popey> then do the partition shrinking or whatever
<j0nr> hello AlanBell :)
<j0nr> popey: you think using the built in backup service is better?
<popey> backup service?
<popey> I'm talking about the media
<popey> if you clone it then restore it you're going to reset yourself to the same position as you are in now
<j0nr> its a Dell so it does come with this....yes I mean the preinstalled program to make a restore disk
<popey> yeah, because you will need those if you ever want to reinstall
<j0nr> popey: yes thats my plan, so if I ever mess it all up I can return it to as it was out the box
<j0nr> confused
<popey> what is confusing?
<DJones> j0nr: I did two machines about 6 months ago, I used the builtin windows recovery tool to create the backup disks, then used windows to shrink the c: drive, before installing ubuntu
<j0nr> Its got Dell DataSafe (if that means anything) which will create recovery media (usb stick or DVD - neither of which I have to hand)
<j0nr> why is using that preferable to cloning the drive to an image with clonezilla?
<popey> why will you ever restore from the clonezilla image?
<j0nr> if the window installation goes pete tong
<j0nr> restore the image I take back over the windows partition
<popey> you can restore a large clone over a small partition these days?
<j0nr> are you asking me or highlighting my ignorance :) ?
<popey> i am asking
<popey> last i tried you couldnt
<popey> but maybe i am not an expert with clonezilla
<j0nr> I don't know...
<j0nr> I did wonder that...so thought maybe I should do my partitioning ready for ubuntu first
<directhex> AlanBell: protip: uinput is an easy API which lets you create keystrokes.
<directhex> kernel level
<popey> i wouldnt do that either j0nr
<AlanBell> thanks directhex
<popey> you have no backups and you're about to do something to the partition table
<j0nr> but say I use the built in create restore functionality, will that have the same problem if I then subsequently shrink the windows partiton and need to restore it later?
<popey> depends if the restore tool has options for which partition to install onto or whether it just blats the disk
<j0nr> :/
<AlanBell> directhex: that looks perfect. I am thinking of piping speech dispatcher output as text into IRC and having keystrokes go the other way, so you can control an Ubuntu desktop GUI over IRC
<directhex> AlanBell: use http://lang-world.com/cakemote-mythtv/bd-remote-mythtv-svg.tar.gz as a sample piece of code for emitting uinput events via python
<popey> grrr, screen still doesn't update properly
<popey> might go and poke a developer tomorrow
<swat_> popey: really? screen? like the shell program screen?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> popey: got a moment and an iOS device with you? :)
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> I can't see a problem via my Android devices
<ejos> Can i save my iptable rules to /etc/network/iptables
<gord> haven't even managed to say hello to popey all day, he's hiding i'm sure
<bigcalm> gord: have you ventured into foreign lands as well?
<gord> bigcalm, yup, uds and platform sprint, always at both me
<bigcalm> Funky
<bigcalm> Are things going to be ready for April?
<popey> i said hello to gord twice today â¹
<gord> i've not seen any hellos!
<gord> popey, did you manage to bring some pg tips with you? completely forgot, can only live on starbucks for so long (one day)
<gord> bigcalm, sure why not ;) precice is pretty good atm even, especially the power management work, doubled my battery life
<gord> used my laptop all day, building unity and stressing out the cpu, only plugged in for half an hour before lunch
<awilkins> I put it in a VM, idle inspection didn't reveal any really obvious differences from Oneiric, but I suppose that's to be expected from an LTS
<popey> gord: sadly forgot
<gord> dang, oh well, home in a few days
<gord> for some of us ;)
<popey> bah
<popey> i have a week
<Nafallo> popey: it's fine. you have me here :-)
<AlanBell> did you find somewhere to dance?
<mgdm> "we can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind..."
<bigcalm> It's always best if you do the safety dance
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Tech Predictions Review: 2011 - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/01/tech-predictions-review-2011/
<mattt> any recommendations for/against learning python 4th edition (o'reilly) ?
<davmor2> Evening slackers
<Oli> mattt: I have the 4th pocket edition. Also had the third ed. Superb little references for beginners and all you need if you're already a programmer (and understand concepts like inheritance, arrays, etc)
<mattt> Oli: ah, not the pocket reference, the full blown book :)
<Oli> mattt: But to be perfectly honest, I'd probably go for the version that avoids mentioning anything about Py3k. It's not ready for general use. The language is, the rest of the world is not and if you try and use it in any meaningful project at the moment, you just end up wanting to import libraries you can't because they haven't been ported.
<mattt> Oli: yeah, can't find a 2nd hand copy of 3rd edition on amazon :(  2nd edition is plenty cheap, but covers python 2.3 ... surely that'd be a problem?
<Oli> mattt: Pffft. I doubt you'd have a problem. I think you'd get the overriding gist of what Python is about. You'd be missing conditional expressions (which are frankly quite messy, eg: v = a if b else c), some information on the with statement and some very obvious string functions. The rest of the differences between 2.3 and 2.5/6/7 are probably edge case for most people and won't be in a book for any length.
<Oli> If you're buying a book to learn Python, it will do well. If you're buying a book to learn every nook and cranny of Python, buy a newer edition.
<Oli> But buy the pocket ref as well. 4th ed does manage to split up 2.6 and 3.x well. I expect there's a 5th ed out now which does the same with 2.7
<gordonjcp> yup
<mattt> Oli: nah, i'm more interested in general concepts, not edge cases :)
<gordonjcp> 12.04 has *exactly* the same graphics corruption
<ali1234> which driver?
<mattt> Oli: thanks for the info, that helps quite a bit
<ali1234> mattt: what do you want to do with python?
<mattt> ali1234: system programming/scripting, and i use django a bit ...
<gordonjcp> put it this way
<gordonjcp> Python 3 has finally pissed me off enough to ditch Arch for Ubuntu
<mattt> oh yeah, arch is on python 3 aren't they :/
<ali1234> hah, bleeding edge too bleeding for you now?
<mattt> thanks for the help guys, going to nab a used 2nd edition from amazong
<mattt> *amazon
<Oli> mattt: If you've got a few hours where you just want to sit down and learn by rote, there's always "Learn Python The Hard Way". Despite the dubious name, it's actually pretty decent. And free for the online version with a multitude of purchasing options if you want a different format: http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
<gordonjcp> ali1234: well it's more that I have to put something together that will be mostly deployed on Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so I have to put up with the horribly old packages that Ubuntu ships
<BigRedS> Oh man, I just stuck Oneiric on a staging server because such a *new* version of python/django was required
<Oli> BigRedS: I did that last month. Jumped from 9.10 to 11.10 (4 upgrades) on two servers in two hours. That was bracing.
<Oli> BigRedS: And because I live life on the edge, those servers were both production servers. There's nothing quite like fixing Django deprecations at 3am :)
<gordonjcp> when I upgrade my server to Debian Obsolescent from Debian Moribund I'm basically going to scrap my website and start again from scratch
<gordonjcp> it's on such an old version of Django
<BigRedS> gord: yeah, I came from Debian Modern straight through to Ubuntu ohmygoshimbleeding
 * BigRedS might be classed a 'luddite'
<gord> fix yer tab complete
<BigRedS> Oli: Ah, i was just trying to get somebody's code to work on Squeeze with as few Testing bodges as possible, and about five hours in scrapped it and started over with the actual versions he was using
<gord> last spoke first, not alphabetical
<BigRedS> gah. New, less good, IRC client
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: ^^^
<BigRedS> well, new, still-defautly-configured irc client
<Oli> This is perhaps a lesson to use virtualenv for Django. I know I need to but it's comforting to know there are others in the same boat :)
<BigRedS> I just use virtual machines for everything now :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-10
<gordonjcp> what are people using for mail in Ubuntu?
<gordonjcp> or, to put it another way, who on earth thought Thunderbird was a good choice?
<gordonjcp> how do you stop that annoying orange flashing thing in the status bar?
<gordonjcp> is there a way to stop Unity maximising every bloody window every chance it gets?
<KrisDouglas> Im using thunderbird and want to die more each day
<KrisDouglas> It used to be ok...
<KrisDouglas> gordonjcp: maximising, ewww.... there's a tweak on ubuntu geek for it i think
<ball> What's this Ubuntu TV thing all about then?
<KrisDouglas> I think it's like appleTV, Google TV, TiVO, etc...
<KrisDouglas> like a media centre?
<hamitron> waste of bandwidth then? ;)
<ball> I have to go
<shauno> that's a bit harsh hamitron .. I love my xbmc
<shauno> hm, timestamp fail + good lord it's 4am already
<hamitron> hehe, I was asking ;)
<shauno> loosely related, I played around with netflix a bit more.  quite disappointed so far, and not just the selection
<shauno> that bit I expect to improve over time, but their ipad app is terrible, which was going to be my main use for it
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: hows you
<AlanBell> good thanks
<popey> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ces/9002390/CES-2012-Linux-Ubuntu-TV-launched-by-British-firm-Canonical.html mainstream coverage
<christel> morning beauties
<mattt> morning morning
<gord> morning beasties
<MartijnVdS> hellos
<daubers> AlanBell: But will it be enough to push up desktop take up?
<AlanBell> who knows, but mainstream coverage is good
<daubers> :)
<danfish> morning
<danfish> gonna download the tv code and try to get it to run on the revo
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Xubuntu, Kubuntu, and Edubuntu LTS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/10/xubuntu-kubuntu-and-edubuntu-lts/
<czajkowski> danfish: ello ello
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<danfish> how's the back czajkowski?
<czajkowski> little bit sore today tbh
<daubers> czajkowski: Able to move around yet? Or still stuck lying down?
 * oimon has a cold on top of a cold
<oimon> hopefully cold 1.0 will be uninstalled soon
<DJones> Hi AdvoWork
<czajkowski> daubers: I can move around, just really slowly. and no bending or lifting
<AdvoWork> Hi DJones
<DJones> AdvoWork: I'm trying to remember the model number for the asus laptop, but just can't get it to spring to mind, all I can remember is that its red, i3, 500Gb drive and intel graphics
<AdvoWork> DJones, lol, no worries, I cna wait a while, its just difficult finding supported models that you can actually buy, I think most people(or some atleast) would give up at this stage
<DJones> I got a HPG72 which has worked great apart from a the screen is always dimmed at boot
<DJones> I would suspect that most machines in the sub Â£350 price range will come with Intel graphics which while not brilliant for game play, (from my experience of INtel HDA) have been pretty good
<daubers> czajkowski: Ah, you'll be fine soon enough
<czajkowski> yup indeed
<gordonjcp> DJones: or indeed, "not brilliant"
<gordonjcp> at all
<oimon> ah, kernel 3.2 added to 12.04...time to start testing it
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's been in there for a while
<MartijnVdS> oimon: maybe they were RCs though
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<daubers> o/
<danfish> hmm, at what time did I think it sensible to upgrade the revo (HTPC) to precise :/
<MartijnVdS> Why not
<popey> should be fine
<popey> unless you have some extra stuff like ppa builds of xbmc or something?
<danfish> popey: I *did* have xbmc on it but new TV has DNLA - may try and buld ubuntu tv on it
 * daubers craves biscuits
<popey> ubuntu tv has less functionality right now than xbmc
<MartijnVdS> but it's PURPLE
<popey> the concept is aubergine :p
<MartijnVdS> Purple, exactly.
<popey> your eyes are broken âº
<MartijnVdS> popey: No, I'm of the opinion that only 5-6 colours exist, and others are just bad remixes :)
<nigelb> So, I saw Windows 8 today.
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: Poor you
<nigelb> I think Microsoft has woken up.
<nigelb> The UX was actually pretty good.
<nigelb> And built on html, css, and js (I think)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> hello
<danfish> o/ brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello popey and danfish o/
<nigelb> popey: Is it your team that does the TV stuff?
<popey> I am part of the team that does it, yes.
<nigelb> Ah, cool :)
<popey> amongst other things âº
<awilkins> Anyone got a link for that Unity Launcher dev thing?
<popey> can you be more specific?
<awilkins> There was a development tuning set of sources for the Unity launcher linked on an Ubuntu blog recently
<awilkins> Tuning parameters like hide time, etc
<awilkins> I was wondering if it supported hide timeout based purely on a lack of mouseover events for X ms
<popey> http://design.canonical.com/2012/01/launcher-reveal-prototype/
<awilkins> Use case : I use Synergy. My other screen is to the left of my Ubuntu workstation. When the mouse pointer crosses over to the other screen, the launcher unhides. When the mouse pointer crosses back, acceleration often causes the pointer to cross into the Ubuntu screen without actually entering the launcher. This deprives the launcher of a "mouse leaves" event, which means it doesn't hide.
<awilkins> In order to make it hide you then have to move the mouse over it, or doubletap the Super key
<bigcalm> awilkins: do you find that synergy doesn't transmit all keys? eg shift+3
<Seeker`> popey: what do you do in the team?
<bigcalm> Prods people in new directions?
<awilkins> bigcalm: I have memories of being annoyed by it, but I've not noticed being really annoyed by it recently, so I guess the builds I'm using have solved the issues
<oimon> Asus and Nvidia prepare Â£160 quad-core tablet...oooh
<bigcalm> Oh
<awilkins> bigcalm: One thing that comes to mind is that Synergy can fail to transmit one of the shift keys to RDP sessions you have open in a client machine
<bigcalm> awilkins: I just use whatever comes out of the software centre
<awilkins> bigcalm: My client is Windows so I'm on the latest Synergy2 build from SF
<bigcalm> Ah
<popey> Seeker`: I'm an Engineering Manager, I have guys working on custom builds and packages for bespoke hardware
<bigcalm> My client is 10.10
<awilkins> bigcalm: Server is synergy via QuickSynergy on Ubuntu
<bigcalm> Using QuickSynergy here as well. A GUI that is useful!
<popey> oimon: the transformer prime is a quad-and-a-half tablet already
<oimon> popey: i was more excited at the price :D
<popey> well, yes
 * oimon doesn't need another tablet anyway
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod how's you?
<czajkowski> not to bad my dear, and you?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm good I'm just waiting for you to get better so I can prod the living daylights out of you ;)
<oimon> s/prod/????
<czajkowski> davmor2: hah
<christel> haha
<christel> such loove
<czajkowski> christel: darling!
<christel> hellooo prettyface
<Seeker`> o/
<czajkowski> christel: how are you this lovely morning
<davmor2> christel: Hey I'm behaving I'm at least letting czajkowski get bet before the torrent of abuse issues forth :D
<czajkowski> such a kinda gentleman is davmor2
<directhex> woo, fosdem
<czajkowski> WHOOO
<MartijnVdS> directhex: already?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, my talk is confirmed, so woo
<MartijnVdS> directhex: what will you be talking about?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, debian packaging info for .net upstreams
<Laney> dear failers, stop failing, ta
<MartijnVdS> Laney: that's like "Dear water, please stop being wet."
<czajkowski> directhex: no cats please this time!
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you're going to fosdem too?
<czajkowski> yup
<directhex> czajkowski, i've got 2 cats left over from last year. and a hedgehog. that's it.
<christel> czajkowski: i am decent! thyself? :)
<czajkowski> taking part in a panel discussion on locos/ambassadors
<czajkowski> christel: nay bad darling
<czajkowski> mothership is invading on friday for the day
<czajkowski> over and back
<MartijnVdS> directhex: http://i.imgur.com/UvFTC.jpg
<directhex> ._.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: it's a "quokka"
<davmor2> christel: That is quite obviously a lie, you may be well, but decent isn't a term I've heard in conjunction with you before :D
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: So Qt Quokka
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: the next release :)
<bigcalm> Do I buy a 120gb ssd for 126 quid (1.05 per gb) or 60gb for 71 quid (1.18 per gb)?
<Seeker`> bigcalm: do you need 120gb?
<bigcalm> Seeker`: for the laptop to dual boot 12.04 and win7
<Seeker`> d you need 120gb?
<bigcalm> 60gb would still do I guess
<davmor2> bigcalm: 60gb all day long it must be way better if it's more expensive right :D
<Seeker`> if you need 120gb, get 120gb
<directhex> you need 120GB.
<Seeker`> if you don't, get 50gb
<directhex> 120GB is barely enough for windows & a few games, let alone dual boot
<bigcalm> directhex: good point. The laptop is the only one with game os on it
<davmor2> bigcalm: in all seriousness if you plan on installing anything on Ubuntu or Windows get the 120 gb
<directhex> a modern game can easily be >20GB
<DJones> Go for one of these & do a USB install http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/09/swiss_penknife_ssd/ Its only $2,000 ish
<bigcalm> Happy with the 60gb OCZ Vertex in my workstation, so looking at the 120gb OCZ Agility for the laptop. My 1st thought that I would be throwing good money at a terrible laptop, but I will take the drive out for whatever comes after it
<popey> \o/ GameOS
<Oli> bigcalm: Neither - you spend Â£1.41/gig on a OCZ Revodrive (120GB)
<Oli> (assuming you have a PCI-E for it to go in)
<bigcalm> Oli: it's going in my laptop
<bigcalm> So, no
<davmor2> popey: new challenge for you and gord,  The Ubuntu Games Console,   UGamer :D  Oh and it needs more than minecraft ;)
<Oli> bigcalm: That's a shame because they're awesome. You could always buy it and switch it for the SSD in your workstation...
<gordonjcp> popey: are there images for Ubuntu TV available?
<Oli> The problem with small laptop drives though (obviously) is you run out of space quickly. Unless you've got two HD slots, there's no opportunity for a slow mechanical drive as you have in a desktop.
<shauno> that's why I yanked my dvdr and put spinning rust in its place
<Oli> Yeah that's a good option if the laptop if popular enough to have somebody making HD-caddy bay replacements
<shauno> that's the bit that strikes me as odd.  are the drives themselves not a relatively standard shape?
<Oli> AFAIK, no
<Oli> They're similar (they're all designed around a CD) but I think there's quite a bit of variance. Could be completely wrong.
<shauno> well that I didn't know  (my last PC-based laptop ran win31)
<oimon> how can i get byobu to show me the name of the machines i'm connected to in different sessions?
<oimon> without manually renaming with F8
<directhex> there's a "standard" shape for laptop drives, but that standard is inly implemented by small fry manufacturers on their biggest laptops
<directhex> it's how you put slim drives in ITX cases
<popey> gordonjcp: not yet
<gordonjcp> popey: I'm quite keen to give it a shot, what are the likely requirements?
<bigcalm> Pay day and the 1st thing I do is but an SSD. Yay for geekyness
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: runs on an Atom apparently
<gordonjcp> I think I need a new PC and a new monitor
<oimon> popey: you use byobu don't you?
<gordonjcp> the bulk of the RFI around here seems to come from the video cable
<popey> gordonjcp: i have it running on an acer revo
<awilkins> The sources are available though
<popey> we also have it built to run on a pandboard
<awilkins> What's the backend supplying the EPG?
<popey> there isnt yet
<popey> oimon: i do
<oimon> popey: how do you get the session name to report the hostname of the machine you are logged into?
<davmor2> popey: are you using the new and improved tmux byobu?
<oimon> byobu just says ssh
<MartijnVdS> Can anyone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/913037 ?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 913037 in libgphoto2 (Ubuntu) "Galaxy Nexus, Xoom: New device IDs for music-players.h" [Undecided,New]
<popey> CTRL+A, A
<popey> to set window title
<oimon> ok, so manually
<popey> davmor2: not on my LTS server, but am on my laptop
<popey> yeah
<oimon> sad face :(
<davmor2> popey: what do you think to it?
<popey> not used it enough to judge
<davmor2> popey: fair enough
<MartijnVdS> oimon: maybe the standard "screen" way works
<oimon> MartijnVdS: my terminal windows are correctly named after ssh'ing in
<popey> alan@mbp:~$ google
<popey> The program 'google' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<popey> sudo apt-get install googlecl
<popey> made me smile
<popey> hehehe
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes, so the titles get set with character sequence on the remote end but not locally?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: i mean that gnome-terminal displays title, but byobu session name remains unchanged unless i manually change with F8
<MartijnVdS> oimon: ah.. I have no idea then
<popey> golly lunch!
<MartijnVdS> ask Dustin :)
<popey> ttfn
<oimon> no, it doesn't seem to be a great solution like everyone is saying
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o
<oimon> enjoy the ghoulash
<MartijnVdS> Enjoy the gulag? What?
<oimon> "AllGo Systems and Canonical to Offer Genivi Compliant Linux Automotive Infotainment Solution and Cloud ServicesÂ to Cars"
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu Car Stereo?
<oimon> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120109005827/en/AllGo-Systems-Canonical-Offer-Genivi-Compliant-Linux
<oimon> Together the solution provides advanced features for next generation connected car platforms like personal cloud services based on Ubuntu One, smartphone and tablet Integration in the car and location-based services. The solution, which enables automotive OEMs and tier-one suppliers to build feature-rich IVI Systems and applications, will be showcased during CES 2012 at Canonical's Ubuntu stand at South Hall 4 Upper Level #35379 and AllGo suite #2
<MartijnVdS> Marketese detected.
<awilkins> Why do I have this mental image of Chef Skinner in Ratatouille creating a new line of Chef Gusteau Burritos...
 * popey returns from lunch
<MartijnVdS> HE SURVIVED
 * danfish eats 'pot luck pie' ie leftovers from sunday shoved under a pastry topping
<awilkins> Mmm, pie
<MartijnVdS> Piiiiiiie
<danfish> 2012 is the official year of the pie....somewhere
<christel> mmpie.
<shauno> pie should sponsor the olympics.  it'd make more sense than McD's, and make for some entertaining billboards
<danfish> homemade pie is good - might well be making more pie this year (though at 1 today, I've already beaten my 2011 number)
<MartijnVdS> 5-a-day
<awilkins> Pies?
<awilkins> Mince pie, meat pie... some kind of breakfast pie with eggs and bacon
<awilkins> Homity pie for the veggies
<MartijnVdS> onion, cheese, egg pie \o/
<awilkins> Hmm, what should be the 5th pie of the day
<danfish> chocolate, banana and whisky :)
<MartijnVdS> Guinness and pork
<MartijnVdS> pie
<christel> AlanBell: when/wheres the next Happy Hour
<AlanBell> now that is an exceptionally good question
<shauno> I'm trying to figure out if the cost of the olympics could have bought every person in the UK 365 pies instead.  Today is an exceptionally slow day.
<shauno> (and I'm not sure if they still have 50pence meat & tatty pies like when I were a lad)
<christel> AlanBell: i am thinking reading!
<christel> soon
<christel> then i can combine it with getting a piece of Dave2's herman!
<AlanBell> reading is good
<AlanBell> oooh a herman, I had one of those
<christel> (which i shall in turn share with you!)
<christel> (when he grows up)
<Laney> weird
<Laney> TFL just emailed me to remind me to turn off my engine
<MartijnVdS> Laney: you should!
<Laney> I don't have an engine!
<AlanBell> Dave2: when is the sharing date of the herman?
<christel> herman will be ready for dividing on sunday, so after sunday!
<Dave2> AlanBell: Sunday is when it's divided, but it seems to survive being frozen
<christel> Dave2: what's a good pub?
<AlanBell> interesting, I didn't know that
<Dave2> At least, I gave a frozen one to someone else who is growing his own Herman
<MartijnVdS> It's just a special sourdough culture.. those can survive a LOT :)
<JGJones> Bah...all this pie and I thought you was talking about raspberry pi.
<awilkins> shauno : Venes
<christel> MartijnVdS: yesyes, but like ubuntu it's all about the sharing!
<christel> of the yeasty bacteria..
<christel> ok that just went weird
<MartijnVdS> christel: Sure, but the freezing! :)
<AlanBell> reading is good for daubers too I think
<christel> ah yes, daubers is a readingite isn't he
<christel> and it's close enough for us to attend
<christel> \o/
<danfish> what's the/a herman?
<Dave2> christel: good question. I think there are basically three pubs I go to in Reading. There's zerodegrees, which is where people go from work, there's the hobgoblin which is tiny, and there's the back of beyond which is a wetherspoon's.
<Dave2> (And where the LUG's held)
<awilkins> shauno, Olympic venues, and regeneration of East End, Â£9.345 B, staging games Â£2B
<christel> danfish: it's a german friendship cake, well, it's a sourdough you cultivate and grow, then you bake a cake from one part and give three parts away to friends tod o the same
<christel> it's basically an edible chain letter
<awilkins> shauno, Population of UK 62M
 * christel nods
<danfish> inte
<danfish> interesting
<christel> (though, i don't think it comes with any bad luck if you fail)
<Dave2> It's a chain letter that's tasty
<Dave2> and that you can freeze and use later.
<JGJones> And does actually have a reward at end.
<christel> yes!
<christel> we should mass produce AlanBell, and you could ship a herman with every cd!
<christel> er, not mass produce AlanBells, that'd be... awkward
<awilkins> shauno, So that's Â£177 each, so it could buy us all a CHEAP pie for a year
<Dave2> I was thinking
 * AlanBell does not want to be mass produced
<shauno> yeah, that's not far off the 50 pence pies we used to get
<awilkins> But one suspects that the budget will overrun (these things do)
<JGJones> christel - I would like an AlanBell. A butler around the place would be nice.
<awilkins> So if we assume Â£1 a pie
<awilkins> We could plot the budget overrun by the date in the year when the Olympic budget would stop buying everyone in the UK a pie
<christel> JGJones: they take so much longer to make and train than the hermans though!
<awilkins> Currently June 26th
<shauno> sounds like a fun way to put everything into piespective
<shauno> it's much more difficult to visualise costs when they run into billions.  but if you start taking away people's pies, they know what's up
<Dave2> Pies from the pie shop in Reading are Â£3. I'd want to be bought those rather than pies that cost Â£1.
<awilkins> Pork Farms Medium Pork Pie, Tesco, Â£0.85
<shauno> see, that's what I get for growing up up north.  I forget how silly some of your prices are
<oimon> eww
<christel> i once had an amazing pie with ade
<christel> it was at some odd pie place in birmingham in which the pie was served in cute little cardboard boxes
<Dave2> Pies from the Reading pie shop are really nice though.
<christel> (so that you could later give them away to very small homeless people to sleep in)
<awilkins> Tesco Quiche, Â£1
<awilkins> Or a deli counter cornish pasty
<MartijnVdS> cornish pasty hmmmm
<MartijnVdS> too bad you can't get them here (or good ones, anyway)
 * daubers waits for a program to crash again
<MartijnVdS> we get http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahmacun though
<christel> daubers: are you up for reading happy hour?
<shauno> that was one really odd thing I found in the states.  it turns out there's a cornish diaspora in northern michigan, so you could actually get proper pasties!
<daubers> christel: Oooh, when?
<christel> daubers: well, how about the next one? so january! ;)
<daubers> (also whoever chose the hobgoblin needs a slap)
<christel> the hobgoblin is a bit small isnt it?
<daubers> christel: Umm.... can't really do this month as I'm a) broke and b) not here a lot :)
<christel> (alanbell would love some better suggestions)
<christel> aww! ok, february then?!
<daubers> February is cool :)
<christel> AlanBell: ok, how about reading february and a farnham pubcrawl when popey returns to england?
<daubers> There's the place that SCLug meet, it's a spoons though, or there's the place where the geek night people meet which is near the spoons
 * christel nods
<shauno> I really should try to get the UK more often.  ryanair isn't really *that* bad (for <1hr flights)
<Laney> headphones help
<christel> shauno: yes! come over for all the happy hours
<shauno> my ears don't pop easily, so noise is one problem I don't have on flights
<Laney> not even the noise of all the selling?
<shauno> everything just sounds like they're having a part nextdoor
<oimon> the last time i flew ryanair, i was delayed > 8 hours
<oimon> glasgow -> stanstead
<shauno> that's actually one problem I haven't run into.  they hate being late, because it eats into their margins
<oimon> my mate got rather wasted on beer because he sat in the bar for most of the wait. there's not much to do at prestwick
<shauno> there's not much to do at many airports.  they're not exactly famous for their entertainment value
<shauno> my local airport is essentially a bar in a field.  it was a little disturbing watching the security guy go back to pulling pints once everyone was in
<ikonia> are there any uk pay as you go mobile providers that don't wipe your credit off if you don't use it
<Dave2> Do any of them wipe your credit off?
<ikonia> I'm considering attatching a mobile phone to a machine I have to send me some SMS alerts, however I don't think it will use Â£10 in a year, most UK providers tend to require you to put $X X ammount on your phone each month
<Dave2> Surely no providers require you to make monthly topups?
<ikonia> some of the small print I'm reading suggests you do
<ikonia> I didn't think so either.
<Dave2> I was on O2 PAYG for many years and only topped up monthly at the end
<Dave2> And that was just to get the 500MB of data
<ikonia> looking into this more, good that you seem surprised by this too
<Dave2> I would usually go months between topups on O2
<ikonia> well, I'm expecting to not top this up in a year
<jpds> ikonia: giffgaff.com
<ikonia> this looks interesting thanks
<oimon> ikonia: why SMS alerts?
<ikonia> oimon: simple alert that I can get anywhere
<ikonia> why not sms alerts ?
<gordonjcp> ikonia: Orange don't...
<shauno> if I'm reading O2's correctly, you don't have to top up, but you do need to use your phone
<ikonia> gordonjcp: yeah, I'm just reading, you have to make a call or sms in 9 months or they close the account
<ikonia> shauno: yes, just found some of the more detailed terms
<oimon> depends if u have a smartphone i guess, otherwise SMS can be replaced by email or tweet, or you can use a email->SMS service
<shauno> "7.1 If you do not make or receive a chargeable call at least once in any 6 month period your Mobile Phone will be disconnected and you will lose any remaining credits balance on your Account." is O2's
<ikonia> so I guess a cron job to send a test text once in 6 months would work
<oimon> is the machine network-connected?
<ikonia> yes
<oimon> then maybe email->SMS gateway is a better solution
<shauno> sms alerts can be handy even with a network.  it's nice to have something out-of-band
<oimon> there are free-to-use ones out there apparently
<shauno> eg, "help, my network has disappeared" isn't going to reach you until it's fixed
<oimon> send email, receive SMS
<ikonia> not great as one of the things I want to check is the connection, if the connection goes down I'll lose the ability to email
<ikonia> if that was the case I'd just email
<oimon> shauno: nor will "mobile phone out of credit, unplugged, hung"
<ikonia> but for the sake of a Â£10 phone, and Â£10 top up, it seemed a useful addition to email
<daubers> FAIL DAMMIT!
<ikonia> jpds: giffgaf don't seem to do pay as you go, just Â£150 per month
<daubers> stupid random failure events
<jpds> ikonia: No, they do pay-as-you-go.
<ikonia> thanks chaps, just need to research a gsm compatible hand set, most nokias seem fine
<gordonjcp> ikonia: that's not too bad surely?
<gordonjcp> ikonia: once a month send a single text "Hi your monitoring system hasn't died"
<ikonia> gordonjcp yup, seems a simple solution, once every two months send a 4p text saying "test"
<shauno> pick a few close friends/family and get it to remind you of their birthdays.  get your 4 pence worth ;)
<ikonia> ha ha, good idea
<ikonia> make my 4p work for me
<AlanBell> ikonia: you can put the sim card in a USB dongle
<ikonia> AlanBell: yes, I was looking at that from 3 - they have good supported dongles
<oimon> google tv announcing a few partners @ CES this year
<Dave2> just try to avoid the birthday paradox
<gordonjcp> ikonia: "HONK HONK HONK THIS IS THE EVERYTHING'S OKAY ALARM HONK HONK HONK"
<ikonia> AlanBell: have you done this before, can you treat the usb stick as a gsm modem (basically)
<ikonia> gordonjcp: I'll use that quote, thank you
<jpds> ikonia: http://giffgaff.com/index/pricing
<ikonia> that's quite good, if I don't top up, I lose my free giffgaff calls....gutted ;)
<shauno> gordonjcp, they were actually doing that at newcastle airport when I was there each week.  they kept sounding the fire alarm, a "everyone out the terminal please" announcement, and then a "thanks for putting up with our tests, please let us know if you couldn't hear it" to make you sit back down
<AlanBell> ikonia: yes, you can treat it like a GSM modem, but I think SMS is a slightly non-modemish conversation with the dongle
<ikonia> no real loss for me teir
<ikonia> their
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: depends on the mode you put it into
<gordonjcp> you just send an AT command to send an SMS
<gordonjcp> some SMSes need it to be encoded a slightly funny way
<ikonia> AlanBell: ever actually done this ?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: "funny"
<ikonia> I did it with an old nokia years ago, but the dongle would be a cleaner solution
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: quite right, it is modemish, but it isn't a call type connection
<AlanBell> ikonia: yes, a while back
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: no, it's just a one-shot command
<ikonia> AlanBell: silly AlanBell you've just become a Q+A session when I try this ;)
<shauno> http://designbuildtestrepeat.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/huawei-e220-on-linux-for-sms/    works for my dongle
<shauno> (vastly aided by it being the exact same dongle he's talking about)
<AlanBell> ikonia: http://www.option.com/en/support/faq/article/how-to-send-an-sms-with-at-commands/
<AlanBell> I think there was a python based gui client someone knocked together
<ikonia> thanks
<ikonia> oooh no guis, I'll have to script it, although it can't be that hard, I've used at commands before
<popey> gnokki
<popey> ?
<popey> oh, it was renamed gammu wasnt it?
<AlanBell> yeah, I was thinking there might be a nice python library behind the GUI
<oimon> usb-creator is producing usb sticks which don't boot :(
<popey> what ISO?
<oimon> precise alpha 1
<popey> did you erase it first?
<ikonia> gnokii got renamed ???
<oimon> yes..was that bad?
<ikonia> I'm clearly out of the loop
<popey> well gnokii was not nokia specific
<popey> so nokii in the name makes no sense
<ikonia> I always thought it was meant for nokia only
<ikonia> I didn't really it was not nokia specific
<popey> it was for nokia originally, then they added more phones
<AlanBell> that isn't the gui I was thinking of
<ikonia> the phones it listed as supported all used to be nokia, so called gnokii and supporting nokia phones I assumed it was nokia
<ikonia> ahhh, so they have added more
<ikonia> the backend for gnokii used to be good
<ikonia> easy and simple to use
<ikonia> is it a waste to buy an iphone 4s to act as an sms sender :)
<popey> yes, send it to me and I'll send you a 'better' phone
<ikonia> ha
<ikonia> where can I get the usb dongles without the sim card
<ikonia> as people like 3 are only selling them with mobile broadband sim cards
<DJones> ikonia: I'm sure I've got a nokia 3210 I can send in a direct swap
<oimon> ikonia: is this for home project or work ?
<ikonia> seems a waste to buy them
<ikonia> home project
<oimon> ah
<oimon> thats ok then
<ikonia> if it was work it would be a proper solution rather than me messing around trying to find some interesting tricks
<oimon> yep
<popey> i have a 3 dongle you can have
<ikonia> linux support ?
<ikonia> (as in the device)
<popey> yeah, it works
<ikonia> the current 3 ones are good, for linux
<popey> its an old one
<ikonia> ahhh in that case I'd be happy to take it of your hands
<popey> for sms you dont need latest one âº
<popey> ok, will have to wait till I am home
<popey> remind me next week
<ikonia> don't care if it's old as long as I can put a pay as you go sim in it and send messages
<oimon> trying unetbootin instead of usb-creator
<ikonia> thank you very much
<popey> well, its possibly locked to 3
<popey> ali1234 probably knows how to unlock it
<ikonia> there is a shop near me that will unlock things for Â£8
<ikonia> I can live with Â£8
<popey> âº
<MartijnVdS> but can you live without it
<ikonia> certainly
<danfish> ikonia: those 3 dongle can be mostly unlocked yourself with a bit of googling but needs a windows pc (at least it did last year when I unlocked mine)
<ikonia> danfish: yes, it appears to be a case of a firmware flash
<daubers> bah, either I've fixed this intermittant problem, or it's being more intermittant
<MartijnVdS> â« Intermission âª
<oimon> hmm still get boot error when trying to boot the precise live usb
<oimon> my wife found my missing watch...in the washing machine after a wash
<Myrtti> waterproof watch?
<oimon> hope so
<oimon> it's the casio bin laden model
<Myrtti> water resistant at least then
<MartijnVdS> Straight from the bunker
<gordonjcp> oimon: even at that it's probably likely to be okay if you dry it out thoroughly
<oimon> i think i took it off to shower and then threw all my dirty clothes in the laundry bin with the watch on top
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dF0QTzcuac
<oimon> i have the black plastic one :(
<ali1234> remote the battery and put it in a box with dry rice
<ali1234> *remove
<oimon> or maybe dry ice for cool effect
<MartijnVdS> dry rice in dry ice
<AlanBell> popey: what was the pub in southampton you suggested?
<oimon> hmm.."boot error" seems to happen on one machine but not another
<popey> AlanBell: pass
<popey> AlanBell: The White Star Tavern in Oxford Road?
<popey> Oxford Street rather
<daubers> Hmm... in automating a process, somone's broken the manual process
<jutnux> Howdy all
<oimon> it appears dell inspiron 530 are cranky and don't like booting from USB! (source: the internet)
<jutnux> Attempting to block DNS is like this: http://vmp.name/ttvk.jpg
<bigcalm> It's days like these that I wish I had commented my code in more detail in the past
<bigcalm> How's work going on that time machine?
<jutnux> http://gizmodo.com/5874753/intel-caught-faking-ultrabook-gaming-demo
<jutnux> bigcalm: Nearly there. ;)
<bigcalm> Silly intel
<gord> its CES, everything is fake ;)
<bigcalm> Even UbuntuTV?
<popey> hush your mouth!
<bigcalm> He started it!
<popey> ours is a concept not a product :p
 * bigcalm points
<jutnux> bigcalm, popey will send you to the stocks for saying that ;-)
<popey> we're not hiding anything, some of it is a live demo, some is a video, some is mockup, some is static icons that dont do anything
<popey> hence it's a 'concept' âº
<jutnux> popey: Will it run on the Raspberry PI?
<popey> no
 * jutnux cries
<popey> or yes
<ali1234> hell no :)
<jutnux> Shame
<oimon> maybe on a cotton candy?
<popey> I'm sure someone could crowbar it on
<jutnux> R_Pis look so awesome
<ali1234> not unless someone does a huge u-turn and ubuntu starts supporting armv5(6?)
<popey> but given we dont support the arm rev
<jutnux> ali1234: Worth an enquiry :-)
<Seeker`> I think I was once interviewed for a job by one of the guys involved with the Pi
<Seeker`> Eben Upton
<jutnux> He's the founder
<oimon> works for broadcom
<Seeker`> yeah
<ali1234> you're better off with mer on the pi
<oimon> made-up-name
<jutnux> Luckily Debian supports arm so it is all good.
<Seeker`> went for a job there
<oimon> hmm i thought face spots were supposed to go away when you are 18. i seem to have 4 right now
<Seeker`> oimon: You don't gain immunity
<oimon> comes from having 2 colds at once
<Seeker`> its not like they give you a jab on your 18th birthday :P
<oimon> well i am 36
<oimon> the hormones should have calmed now by now
<oimon> my precise install took about an hour from CD..wow
<oimon> now i have to go home
<jutnux> Precise wouldn't work on my desktop
<jutnux> Got it on my laptop though, running fine.
<oimon> raised a bug?
<jutnux> Nope, had no idea what caused it
<oimon> ask in irc :D
<jutnux> Couldn't access anything either to debug it
<oimon> not me though,. gonna catch a train
<awilkins> Hah, got to rate something 1 / 10 in a meeting today with no disagreement.
<Seeker`> as long as it wasn't "my performance for the last year" :P
<jutnux> or how valuable I am to the team
<Supermanintights> hey guys - know any programs that can repair using .par files?
<Supermanintights> i.e. www.quickpar.org - but linux compatible
<gordonjcp> what's a .par file?
<Supermanintights> a repair file - say if you have lots of .rar's and some are corrupt - the .par repairs them
<Supermanintights> how do i change directory in terminal?
<awilkins> cd
<Supermanintights> merci
<awilkins> Using a shell is a lost art that should be encouraged in the general user populace.
<Supermanintights> hmm
<awilkins> But not cmd.exe
<Supermanintights> i'm trying to remember to use it for stuff like copying/moving files
<Supermanintights> but now I'm trying to use it to repair files with PAR - and it's getting nowhere
<awilkins> par -r <parfile> # as I recall
<Supermanintights> do i need the #?
<awilkins> Comment
<awilkins> Just in case copied whole thing
<Supermanintights> ah
<Supermanintights> i get it
<Supermanintights> let me try
<Supermanintights> i've got lots of incremental .par2
<Supermanintights> will running one run them all?
<awilkins> May be another util. Used to use GPar2 before it was pulled
<awilkins> Should read all par2 files in same set
<Supermanintights> will i need to post the file name
<Supermanintights> or file name and extension?
<Supermanintights> i.e.
<Supermanintights> thisisthefilename
<awilkins> par2 filename in full, or glob it
<Supermanintights> thisisthefilename.vol000+1
<Supermanintights> thisisthefilename.vol000+1.par2
<jutnux> Another delightful IT lesson in school today, powerpoint.
<Supermanintights> what's glob?
<awilkins> Pattern expansion
<awilkins> thisisthe*.par2
 * Supermanintights tries to act knowledgeable and not clueless
<Supermanintights> got ya
<Supermanintights> i like that
<Supermanintights> much easier
<Supermanintights> about 100 odd characters in the filenames
<awilkins> Shell does it before running command on *nix : windows programs have to expand their own globs
<Supermanintights> it's saying bad argument
<Supermanintights> ah
<Supermanintights> i figured it out
<awilkins> tab completion also (hit tab and shell will fill in what it can infer)
<Supermanintights> par2 r Ad*.par2
<Supermanintights> apparently, according to another software - lots of packets need repairing, according to terminal - everything is showing as "no new packets found"
<Supermanintights> perhaps i'm doing it wrong
<Supermanintights> it's not the .par2 i'm trying to repair
<Supermanintights> it's the other files?
<awilkins> yes
<Supermanintights> fml
<Supermanintights> ok, lesson learnt
<awilkins> par2 provides parity for other files
<awilkins> Need at least as many parity blocks as missing blocks from files
<Supermanintights> hmmm
<gordonjcp> sounds like you have corrupt files
<Supermanintights> vol1927+26
<Supermanintights> that's what the pars go up to
<gordonjcp> are rar files used for anything other than warez, anyway?
<Supermanintights> i'm not surprised it's corrupt - the entire thing is 13+gb
<Supermanintights> I use RAR's for storing my backups when I can be bothered to wait for it to compress.... :P
<awilkins> I quite like new backup thingy in Oneiric (Duplicity)
<Supermanintights> urgh
<Supermanintights> it's not happening
<Supermanintights> does case matter?
<awilkins> Most of my work is in a VCS though - the rest is in Dropbox or isn't essential
<awilkins> case matters in *nix filesystems
<Supermanintights> Master Coll1.iso,001
<Supermanintights> ah poo
<Supermanintights> ignore
<Supermanintights> my mousepad swapped windows while typing
<Supermanintights> hmm
<Supermanintights> nothing is working
<awilkins> This is why the critical operation for backup is testing the ability to restore.. before you need to. I confess I'm lax about it myself. I just trust to multiple redundancy and simple methods.
<Supermanintights> admittedly, this may not be a backup i've made, but regardless
<Supermanintights> i don't want to have to give up and boot into windows to repair it
<Supermanintights> that's the easy way out
<Supermanintights> i want to do it commandline way - like a true geek :D
<gordonjcp> a true geek does it the easy way
<gordonjcp> and then gets on with something more fun
<Supermanintights> meh
<awilkins> try par2 r <apar2file> *
<Supermanintights> is it the par file
<Supermanintights> or the iso file
<awilkins> You pass a par file as second arg
<Supermanintights> :s
<awilkins> the last arg is "the list of all files in this folder"
<awilkins> (glob expansion)
<awilkins> It will search for blocks in them all (just in case the par file name pattern doesn't match)
<awilkins> See 'man par2'
<diplo> evening all
<Supermanintights> the file names are different to the PAR names
<awilkins> Do they match the patterns in the par2 man page or are they "wrong"?
<Supermanintights> seem to match
<awilkins> It may be that you just have badly damaged files..
<Supermanintights> xxxxx xxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx.vol000+1.par2
<Supermanintights> don't say that :(
<awilkins> Did the person who backed them up store a list of hashes (MD5SUMS or SHA1SUMS)
<Supermanintights> xxx xxx xxx1.iso.001
<Supermanintights> xxx xxx xxx1.iso.001.1
<Supermanintights> not that i can find
<Supermanintights> there seems to be a lotus spreadsheet in the folder :S
<Supermanintights> which is unusual
<awilkins> Not 123, a split archive
<Supermanintights> yeah there are split archives - but according to file type - it's saying lotus 123 spreadsheet
<Supermanintights> with a different file name to the rest
<awilkins> Ah, "magic" can be a bit hinky sometimes
<Supermanintights> :)
<awilkins> Not like windows which takes extensions as gospel
<awilkins> It samples file for content too - but it does make mistakes
<Supermanintights> anyone thinking "give up, use the nice simple boot into windows, and just double click the .par2 and watch it do it all for you"
<Supermanintights> is a good idea
<Supermanintights> i'm 4 minutes shy of an hour of doing this, and i've gotten nowhere
<awilkins> Yes... if only so you know whether your files are knacked or not
<Supermanintights> ok
<awilkins> You could back up folder first so you can return to it as an exercise.
<Supermanintights> 13.5gb - how long will that take to back up :S
<awilkins> On same drive, not long
<Supermanintights> any useful terminal command for it?
<awilkins> cd .. ; tar -cf backup.tar foldername
<awilkins> No compression
<Supermanintights> what does .. mean?
<Supermanintights> short for the entire tree?
<Supermanintights> i've backed up a folder
<awilkins> go up
<Supermanintights> and the folder i want to back up is ACS5
<awilkins> .. is "my daddy"
<Supermanintights> so if i'm in /Temp/ and the folder is in /Temp/ called ACS5
<Supermanintights> i write
<Supermanintights> cd /ACS5; tar -cf backtup.tar ACS5
<Supermanintights> ?
<awilkins> leave out the cd command
<awilkins> You're already above the folder
<Supermanintights> ah
<awilkins> Commnd is "tape archive, create, file, backup.tar, containing ACSS"
<awilkins> Not FAT32 is it?
<Supermanintights> NTFS
<Supermanintights> i have Windows partition, ubuntu partition, swap, and a big NTFS for everything between both OS
<awilkins> FAT32 has 4GB filesize limit,ysee
<Supermanintights> yeah
<Supermanintights> hence me running like the plague away from it :)
<awilkins> Always archive folder from on top.. that way they are tidy when unpacked and dont splurge into your homefolder
<Supermanintights> :)
<Supermanintights> wow
<Supermanintights> this is still going
<Supermanintights> and at times it's freeznig my computer to the point i'm expecting it to die any moment
<gordonjcp> hmm
<gordonjcp> no UPNP in rhythmbox?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: only if you install the plugin
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: confluence I think? coherence? something with a c
<gordonjcp> hm, can't see it
<gordonjcp> oh well, no music in 12.04
<AlanBell> I think the upnp client kind of just worked
<gordonjcp> oh, okay
<MartijnVdS> .. ish]
<AlanBell> server is a separate thing, was tangerine or something on banshee and there is a standalone one that I used with rhythmbox
<MartijnVdS> I've tried the one in my Synology
<MartijnVdS> but I switched back to a local copy, because it's much faster
<gordonjcp> it would be great if Ubuntu would concentrate on making things work, instead of making things different for different's sake
<gordonjcp> presumably they've reanimated the corpse of rhythmbox for 12.04 with some eldritch rite
<gordonjcp> since it doesn't appear to have any sensible work done for a few years
<MartijnVdS> so that's why AlanBell keeps chickens
<AlanBell> for eldritch rites
<AlanBell> !info rygel | gordonjcp
<lubotu3> gordonjcp: rygel (source: rygel): GNOME UPnP/DLNA services. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.10.1-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 453 kB, installed size 1668 kB
<MartijnVdS> does that work yet?
<MartijnVdS> I've had good experiences with the "Playstation media server" or something
<MartijnVdS> it also works on xbox, so I guess rhythmbox should be fine
<AlanBell> I don't know quite what my expectations should be of such a thing, it kind of worked, I have no idea how featureful it is
<AlanBell> I think tangerine isn't directly related to banshee, but both are using mono
<MartijnVdS> tangerine used to be a banshee plugin I think, way way back?
<MartijnVdS> something like that
<AlanBell> could be
<MartijnVdS> they (used to) share code
<AlanBell> I found banshee was better at importing CDs than rhythmbox
<AlanBell> have not really played any of them since I imported them and got it working though
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I used to use sound-juicer, but it stopped working with musicbrainz
<MartijnVdS> so now I import CDs using banshee, then process using metaflac --add-replay-gain
<MartijnVdS> then Musicbrainz picard
 * AlanBell likes silence
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3
<AlanBell> my kind of music
<davmor2> AlanBell: I found the opposite was true Banshee was duplicating all my cd's
<davmor2> AlanBell: and one would be 3 seconds longer than the other so it kept both versions
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: John Cage \o/
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: Not really, imho :)
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: I give you: http://livingroomsongs.olafurarnalds.com/
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: I just like it when people push boundaries and do something interesting. Plus Cage's stuff actually works quite well in certain contexts
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: I'm just not in those contexts very often ;)
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> also, I keep having personal connections to him
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: still, check out the Olafur Arnalds link
<Pendulum> (My dad knew him and a friend of mine studied with him)
<Pendulum> I am
<Pendulum> it's nice :)
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: metal drummer turned "neo-classical" person
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> I approve
<directhex> gordonjcp: are you after upnp server or client support?
<gordonjcp> client, I have a UPNP server already
<directhex> i know RB does daap... does it not do upnp?
<gordonjcp> RB?
<MartijnVdS> rhythmbox
<gordonjcp> yeah
<directhex> rhythmbox-plugin-coherence ?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not in 12.04
<directhex> awesome
<directhex> gg n1 pld
<mgdm> I've never managed to get it to work,but then I've not tried for a while
<gordonjcp> well I can't even get it to play any files I have
<gordonjcp> it doesn't support .ogg, .mp3 or even .wav
<gordonjcp> not sure what it *does* support
<gordonjcp> I guess this is why 12.04 is alpha ;-)
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm trying to get my phone supported...
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<gordonjcp> urgh
<gordonjcp> the insane auto-maximise thing is infuriating
<gordonjcp> everything I find online says you need ccsm
<gordonjcp> but I can't find ccsm for 12.04
<gordonjcp> :-/
<gordonjcp> oh ffs, there it goes again
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZH82l_ie9M ?
<davmor2> gordonjcp: it called Compiz Config Settings Manager or something like that
<davmor2> gordonjcp: that's why everyone calls it ccsm
<gordonjcp> yeah, I tried a few permutations
<gordonjcp> davmor2: I'll just have to live with only using the bottom half of the screen it seems
<AlanBell> !info compizconfig-settings-manager
<lubotu3> compizconfig-settings-manager (source: compizconfig-settings-manager): Compiz configuration settings manager. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.9.5.92-0ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 1180 kB, installed size 5780 kB
<AlanBell> yay, got it right :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: only cause I gave you the words ;)
<AlanBell> words are easy, but there are 2^3 potential hyphenations to select from
<davmor2> AlanBell: to be fair USC should find it from the words to be honest :P
<gordonjcp> apt-cache search finds it eventually
<gordonjcp> the thing about setting "Automaximize value" to 100% doesn't work
<gordonjcp> I still can't use most of my screen
<AlanBell> what is the automaximise thing?
<AlanBell> you mean the tile thing where it does an orange fade when you drag a window to the top, left or right of the screen?
<gordonjcp> yes
<gordonjcp> except it does it if I drag the window anywhere in pretty much the top third of the screen
<AlanBell> that is the grid plugin, in the window management section
<gordonjcp> meh
<gordonjcp> this is just a mess
 * AlanBell is perplexed by gordonjcp's bad experiences
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: possibly just because it's an alpha version
<AlanBell> might be that they just broke stuff while on the platform rally
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: and this PC is about four years old, with an unsupported graphics chipset
<AlanBell> but generally I have found precise to be like oneiric but less broken
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I must admit I find many of the design choices in Unity to be very, very difficult to live with
<gordonjcp> window buttons on the wrong side, maximising everything in sight, the Mac-like menu at the top thing
<gordonjcp> these are all things that make Macs completely unusable for me
<AlanBell> window buttons I have adapted to fine, grid tile thing I kind of like, global menu I don't like at all, launcher is fine once I stopped it auto-hiding, the dash home lens is entirely pointless, the concept of lenses in general is good, the apps lens is badly implemented
<gordonjcp> yeah, I really cannot live with the app menu
 * mgdm is still on Natty, and will stay there 'til something breaks
<gordonjcp> and I just can't see why anybody could ever think it was a good idea
<AlanBell> alt-tab is unuseable so I turned on one of the other switchers
<gordonjcp> it worked on pre-Multifinder Mac OS
<AlanBell> the bizare thing is that a good simple apps lens would be easy to do
<AlanBell> it would be a lot easier to do a good lens than the one they actually did
<gordonjcp> from System 7 onwards it became increasingly clear that the menu at the top thing was just not a good idea
<gordonjcp> no-one else has done it since
<gordonjcp> because it's stupid, and broken
<AlanBell> menu moving into the panel on maximised windows is good
<gordonjcp> yeah, but on non-maximised windows it's just a nuisance
<AlanBell> I found how to query the gnome menu with python the other day, I will get round to doing an apps lens at some point
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
<AlanBell> that was the result of me ripping out code from the default vala based apps lens until it made sense
<AlanBell> and I did a screencast of it http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenu.ogv
<directhex> valalol
<AlanBell> yes indeed, that was my first experience with vala, and it was not a happy one
<AlanBell> edit vala code, make lens, see error in .c file you didn't touch and don't recall seeing a moment ago, fix error in .c file, make lens, get same error, rinse and repeat
<AlanBell> it is kind of a meta language or macro processing language that sort of complies into autogenerated c, which is then compiled
<gordonjcp> yeah, I don't really get vala
<AlanBell> so you have no way to get from an error, back to the thing you broke. This seems like a fundamentally bad idea, but apparently vala is quite fashionable
<directhex> er, y'all were campaigning for it. especially AlanBell
<directhex> this is the glorious c#-free future. a cheap chinese knock-off of c# with a fairly similar syntax
<directhex> no evil JITter or VM, it's pure glorious C
<directhex> drink it down, boys
<AlanBell> :)
 * AlanBell likes python
<directhex> me, i like how vala breaks compatibility every release
<gordonjcp> I like C
<gordonjcp> C is nice and simple
<davmor2> gordonjcp: weirdo
<directhex> C is great for what it's built for
<gordonjcp> yeah
<davmor2> AlanBell: I'm with you dude
<gordonjcp> I use C when I need to do lots of stuff quickly
<directhex> but your computer should come with a special crotch-punching device for those times when you think of writing gui code in C
<gordonjcp> directhex: what do you suggest you write it in, then?
<gordonjcp> directhex: and how do you interface it to the business code in C?
<directhex> gordonjcp: anything without manual memory management
<AlanBell> not keen on c because doing your own pointer arithmetic seems a bit undignified
<directhex> gordonjcp: and, erm, by calling into libraries? it's piss easy with c# to call into c libs. java purposefully makes it painful. i imagine python makes it easy
<gordonjcp> yeah, but then you've got to mix python and C in the same app
<gordonjcp> and have all sorts of weirdass goings on to synchronise the two
<gordonjcp> it's easier just to do the whole lot in C
<AlanBell> most of my stuff isn't realtime
<directhex> wow. python sounds like shit, as well as slow.
<directhex> here's a c# method signature:
<directhex>  private static int getpid ();
<gordonjcp> and?
<directhex> here's a method signature which calls into libc. pay attention at the back
<directhex>  [DllImport ("libc.so")]
<directhex>  private static extern int getpid ();
<directhex> HOLY HELL THAT WAS SUPER HARD
<gordonjcp> <shrug>
<gordonjcp> how does C# work, does it compile to machine code?
<directhex> JIT
<gordonjcp> oh, it's too slow
<gordonjcp> no good to me
<directhex> for performance-critical code? perhaps
<gordonjcp> well yeah
<directhex> for gui code? your users aren't measured in ghz
<AlanBell> if you are doing SDR stuff then you need the tin to do your exact bidding
<gordonjcp> exactly
<gord> my methodology is that it all the same work - arguing about this kind of stuff when they all have their pros and cons is pointless
<gordonjcp> and that's even if you're doing it on rabidly powerful PC hardware
<gordonjcp> if you're doing it on something like a Celeron 1400, it's easy
<davmor2> gord: You forgot your teabags
<gordonjcp> you can sit around waiting all day for stuff to happen, you've got cycles to burn
<gord> davmor2, yeah, mirco told me... weird morning
<davmor2> gord: hahaha
<davmor2> gord: I told him too :D
<davmor2> gord: I just figured you want reminding about it on a regular basis ;)
<gord> davmor2, are you still here? not seen you anywhere since i walked in with my bags
<Laney> you crazy budapestians
<Laney> I hope you've gone and had a wander around
<directhex> gordonjcp: your example overpowered processor is a decade-old celeron?
<davmor2> gord: no I'm at home dude
<gordonjcp> directhex: massively overpowered
<directhex> gordonjcp: you know apple ios is the only major mobile ARM OS platform which isn't JITter based, right?
<gordonjcp> directhex: at present I'm trying to squeeze what is essentially the GUIless guts of lysdr into a 33MHz DSP
<gordonjcp> and before you start, yes I know there are faster DSPs
<gordonjcp> but a) they're not flight-ready and b) they take way too much power
<directhex> so your argument for filling desktop linux with segfaulty C apps is you want optimised code for a flight-ready DSP?
<directhex> and with that, i think it's videogame time
<gord> blaming apps segfaulting on C is a bad argument
<gordonjcp> directhex: blaming apps segfaulting on C is more of a reflection on your poor code
<gord> i've seen python/insert_favourite_language_here segfault waaaaaaaaaaaayyy to much for that argument to make sense
<gordonjcp> directhex: we have this thing called "exception handling" these days
<AlanBell> dunno how to make a python app segfault
<gordonjcp> you should try it
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: you can make it drop its guts though
<gord> AlanBell, you don't use bzr enough then ;)
<davmor2> AlanBell: It's easy hand it to me
<AlanBell> yeah, it can crash alright!
<gordonjcp> I don't use bzr *at all* if I can help it
<directhex> a segfault within python etc is fine. a segfault *of* python is not
<directhex> every unmanaged unhandled segfault should be considered a security risk
<AlanBell> oh, actually I did get python to crash in a segfaulty way
<daubers> Are we onto a  "my programming language is larger than yours" argument?
<daubers> sorry, I meant better of course
<AlanBell> if you have at-spi turned on (with or without orca actually running) and use the openERP client then it crashes after a little bit with a garbage collection error that isn't in the python code, it is in python itself
<davmor2> we should all be using machine code or assembly anyway
<gord> heh neat
<daubers> Just use what ever suits the task at hand dammit! End of discussion
<gord> the best language is often just the one you are most familiar with. regardless of language features
<AlanBell> bug 905738 I think I need to add some gdb stacktraces to that, I tried following some instructions but I didn't understand what I was looking at
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 905738 in OpenERP GTK Client "Crash: Fatal Python error: GC object already tracked" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905738
<daubers> gord: Or the on your can afford to get some devs in to work on
<davmor2> I only really know a little python guess what I program with
<gordonjcp> davmor2: bah, assembly, *slooooooow*
<gordonjcp> davmor2: if you aren't implementing it in hardware you're not done optimising it
<daubers> gordonjcp: Now tell that to an FPGA :)
<gordonjcp> daubers: there's a reason why I looked at throwing the mixer and demodulator onto an FPGA
 * daubers loves FPGA's
<gordonjcp> turns out that 48kHz is "fast enough" and within the capabilities of the DSP we're looking at usin
<daubers> if only the dev kits where a bit better priced :(
<gordonjcp> *using
<gordonjcp> ah
<gordonjcp> someone in #arduino mentioned a really cheap cpld dev board
<davmor2> gordonjcp: you should try minuetos or the other one that I can never remember the name of
<gordonjcp> davmor2: yeah
<daubers> gordonjcp: I'll just get work to buy me one in a couple of weeks
<Azelphur> Is there any way to tell apt to go away when it's making /really/ stupid dependency decisions?
<Azelphur> It's telling me I need wine1.2 to install LMMS, I'm going to stab it in the face.
<dutchie> Azelphur: --no-install-recommends?
<Laney> apt-get install lmms wine1.2-
<Azelphur> think I might have worked around it, I found a ppa which has the dependency tweaked on it to allow for wine1.3 as well
<dutchie> ooh, does that work with apt-get? i thought that was an aptitudeism. thanks Laney
<popey> ebenink
<Azelphur> only problem is now my apt-get upgrade is broken because gnome15 pushed out busted packages and I'm getting size mismatches :(
<Laney> you what now
<Azelphur> happen to know if I can tell it to ignore size mismatches too? :D
<dutchie> popey: what?
<Azelphur> Laney: nope that doesn't seem to work, says wine1.2 is not going to be installed :P
<Laney> so it's a dependency
<Laney> you can't override those so easily
<Azelphur> Laney: even if they are really silly? :(
<Azelphur> I have wine1.3, that dependency is already satisfied I don't want to downgrade haha
<Laney> right
<Laney> you can look into equivs to make fake packages in this situation
<Azelphur> \o/
 * Azelphur stabs apt
<Laney> it isn't apt's fault
<Azelphur> surely there could be an easy override for this (I've seen it in other package managers)
<bigcalm> Azelphur: try --nodeps
<bigcalm> But that might only help you in this one instance
<Laney> dpkg has force options, but there are gremlins to be found when you mess with the database so
<Laney> you should use equivs if you are sure, or just get that patched package you found
<Azelphur> bigcalm: apparently an unknown param
<Azelphur> Laney: the patched ppa didn't work, same problem :(
<Azelphur> It's like the universe hates me and wants me to make a choice between gaming and music
<popey> http://www.farnham-as.co.uk/2012/01/come-stargazing-with-farnham-as-21st-january-2012/ AlanBell
<AlanBell> interesting
<ali1234> Azelphur: just fix it man
<ali1234> learn how to rebuild packages
<Azelphur> but that's long and arduous D:
<ali1234> in this case all you gotta do is edit the control
<ali1234> and then run fakeroot dpkg-buildpkg
<ali1234> also what's a size mismatch?
<ali1234> i've never seen it before
<dogmatic69> could anyone recommend a nice c++ IDE
<ali1234> what are you looking for from an IDE?
<ali1234> code completion?
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.gnome15.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=4&id=510&Itemid=7#511
<ali1234> Azelphur: so it's a temporary problem... files didn't upload properly
<Azelphur> guess so
<ali1234> random question. if you;ve got windows 7 and you plug in a external USB drive that has no partitions on it but for some reason windows doesn't ask you to format it, where would you look to verify it is connected and how would you know which drive it was?
<ali1234> i'm thinking device manager->by connection then look under the usb
<ali1234> but i've only used XP
<Azelphur> ali1234: isn't that in right click my computer, manage, disk manager or something
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> also how to do same on mac?
<ali1234> since the person has both :)
<ali1234> iow what's the equivalent of lsusb for windows/mac
<AlanBell> Unity TV might not be the most exciting product of CES -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16484371
<popey> ali1234: disk manager on windows, disk utility on mac
<ali1234> noooo
<popey> no?
<ali1234> suppose i plug in a usb storage device with a dead hard drive attached to it
<ali1234> it would show on lsusb
<ali1234> but not on fdisk -l
<ali1234> disk manager = fdisk -l
<ali1234> what = lsusb?
<dogmatic69> ali1234, sorry did not see your reply. embedded c++
<dogmatic69> code completion would be good, and something that is c/c++ directed
<ali1234> dogmatic69: eclipse maybe? i dunno
<dogmatic69> bloatware
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> well, IDEs are
<ali1234> what about Qt creator?
<dogmatic69> netbeans is not bad
<ali1234> it's pretty good
<mgdm> Netbeans is actually quite reasonable
<dogmatic69> it has its quirks, but does not munch ram like eclipse
<dogmatic69> Im doing some AVR stuff.. just seen eclipse has a avr plugin
<bigcalm> mgdm: NetBeans > Eclipse as PHP IDE?
<dogmatic69> ye, I use netbeans for php
<dogmatic69> its much better
 * bigcalm heads to the Software Centre
<dogmatic69> bigcalm, no. just dl off the site. latest is 7.x
<bigcalm> Big difference?
<dogmatic69> ye, 6.x had some annoying bugs
<bigcalm> Ooooh
<bigcalm> There's a PHP only download
<bigcalm> They know their audience then :)
<dogmatic69> one was the auto complete. you type function __cons and <enter> and get function  __construct(...
<dogmatic69> note 2x spaces
<bigcalm> Ah
<dogmatic69> little things like that, but highly annoying in time
<dogmatic69> 7.x also uses about 1/2 the ram
<mgdm> bigcalm: yes
<mgdm> if I used an IDE for PHP, it'd probably be that
<dogmatic69> mgdm, what you use then?
<bigcalm> Not an IDE fan eh?
<mgdm> dogmatic69: vim
<mgdm> bigcalm: not desperately
<dogmatic69> few plugins and that counts as an IDE
<dogmatic69> :D
<mgdm> true :-)
 * bigcalm throws an existing project at netbeans and sees what happens
<dogmatic69> mgdm, I would use vim but only have 2 arms
<dogmatic69> not enough fingers for the kb combos
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: A client has given the green light for 2 days investigation to upgrade existing CakePHP 1.1 project to most recent stable
<dogmatic69> haha
<dogmatic69> that is funny
<dogmatic69> rm ./ -rf
<dogmatic69> cake bake project
<dogmatic69> investigation done
<bigcalm> Ha
<dogmatic69> serious, you wont upgrade from 1.1 to 2.0
<dogmatic69> 1.1 -> 1.2 was almost a rewrite, 1.2 -> 1.3 nothing major, 1.3 -> 2.0 almost a rewrite
<dogmatic69> almost nothing from 1.2 was backwards compatible to 1.1
<mgdm> dogmatic69: I have 2 arms, 10 fingers, works fine :-)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: might be a case of what ever will work on PHP 5.3 then
<dogmatic69> 2.0 will work on 5.3
<dogmatic69> it does, I use it
<bigcalm> I know, but 1.1 doesn't
<bigcalm> The client's host is forcing everybody over to PHP 5.3 and offering 5.2 as a CGI
<dogmatic69> 1.1 was written when 5.x was hardly around
<dogmatic69> 2.0 is so clean
 * mgdm is enjoying playing with 5.4 a bit
<bigcalm> So it'll be told to use the CGI when that happens. But the client has agreed with us that it should be sorted out for the future
<mgdm> $array = []; // BEST FEATURE EVAR
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> JavaScript?
<mgdm> no, that's PHP, as of 5.4
<bigcalm> I know, but that's what it reminds me of
<mgdm> oh, well, yes
<dogmatic69> mgdm, I like the other new oop goodness
<mgdm> and Python
<mgdm> dogmatic69: traits rock
<dogmatic69> <3
<mgdm> I need to make sure my PECL exts work on 5.4, actually
 * mgdm makes a note for the weekend
<mgdm> just released one of them last week, too
<mgdm> ho hum
<bigcalm> How do you turn off the 80char line in netbeans?
<mgdm> why would you want to? à² _à² 
<bigcalm> Why would I want it on?
<mgdm> because it's nice not to have lines longer than 80 chars
<mgdm> I have that in Vim
<bigcalm> There is a vertical red line down the page, annoying
<mgdm> it's a big red line all down the screen, which prompted IT at work to offer to replace my monitor the other week :-D
<bigcalm> Isn't that what line wrap is for? (Not that eclipse did it out of the tin though)
<bigcalm> Haha
<mgdm> I prefer to do that myself
<bigcalm> Has netbeans tapped into the .svn folder for this project?
<mgdm> It might've
<bigcalm> That's a nice thingy
<mgdm> it's certainly capable
<bigcalm> Might have to install this on the laptop
<bigcalm> Though that'll have to wait until my 120gb ssd arrives later this week :D
<bigcalm> Hummf
<bigcalm> Tilting my mouse wheel is the same as right click
<bigcalm> Not expected
<bigcalm> Same for forwards and backwards
<bigcalm> Thankfully the search button on the mouse does nothing!
<bigcalm> Who puts a search button on mice? It's silly
<AlanBell> set it to launch cheese
<bigcalm> That would be weird
<mgdm> *boing* and a big chunk of Edam soars into the stratosphere
<Laney> why do I never portion pasta correctly?
 * Laney urghhhhhhhhhhhhh
<bigcalm> pasta?
<bigcalm> Mmmmmmm
<bigcalm> I miss-read that line as "why do I never partition pasta correctly?", hence querying pasta.
<Laney> "yeah that looks about right. Certainly not making the same mistake I make every time, oh no"
<Laney> 10 minutes later a mountain is born
<bigcalm> Laney: stick it in the fridge and have the rest the next day or for lunch
<bigcalm> That's what Hayley and I do with pasta bakes
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'd rather just get it right but pasta for lunch is still good
<popey> this bug 914529 has been driving me _nuts_ for months
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 914529 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Windows creep to another workspace/desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914529
<popey> if someone can confirm I'd appreciate it
<ali1234> popey i already filed that bug ages ago :)
<ali1234> like 8 months ago
<ali1234> and i think that turned out to be a dupe as well
<ali1234> this is the cause of the bug where you click the launcher and nothing happens
<ali1234> because 1 row of pixel from the window you want are "visible" on the current desktop, but obscured by the top panel
<ali1234> and it's incredibly annoying
<popey> indeed
<popey> i get it horizontally too
<ali1234> yep me too
<ali1234> i tend not to use horizontal workspaces though
<ali1234> mainly because of this bug
<ali1234> it seems to happen mostly with firefox and terminal windows too, although that might just be because that is what i mostly use
<ali1234> popey: if i reported a bug in maverick and nobody touched it at all, and it's fixed in oneiric, how should i close it? fix released?
<popey> might as well
<popey> found the window moving bug you filed ali1234 ? mark mine as dupe?
<ali1234> i posted it in a comment
<ali1234> it's not the same bug but it is related
<ali1234> there's another one but the cause was different and it is marked as fixed
<ali1234> oh wait, that's something else entirely... and it really is fixed
<ali1234> i'm trying to reproduce it with your exact steps
<ali1234> it's kind of hard though because i have so many windows open
<ali1234> and there's no easy way to get rid of them all
<ali1234> look slike i'll have to quit firefox
<ali1234> i wish cleaning up all the open windows wasn't so painfully difficult in unity :(
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-11
<ali1234> yep, reproduced
<popey> cool
<popey> i am gonna pounce on the compiz/unity devs tomorrow
<ali1234> i misread that as "punch"
<popey> maybe
<bigcalm> :D
<ali1234> any chance you can get them to fix the white box bug?
<popey> which bug?
<ali1234> looking for it. i have like 200 bugs
<popey> yeah, was just looking for it
<ali1234> an lp search suuuuuuucks
<bigcalm> Maybe that's why mrevil is recruiting
<ali1234> bug 869628
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 869628 in unity (Ubuntu) "minimized windows - sometimes white rectangles are shown instead of window previews" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869628
<ali1234> it's not rare at all
<popey> i just discovered another bug
<ali1234> after a while it happens with any and all minimized windows
<popey> i have firefox full screen on one desktop, terminal on another, alt tab between you get a white box just before the desktop switches
<ali1234> like when i was just culling firefox and terminals, over half of them were white boxes
<popey> haha your bug
<ali1234> white boxes?
<popey> i love how you rm /var/crash/* âº  I have to do that too
<popey> oh _that_ bug
<popey> yes, I get that
<ali1234> damn is that my etc passwd as well? i need to be more careful when screenshots
<ali1234> ha, you only just noticed the bug? was it not obvious that there was a problem fromt he screenshot?
<popey> no, i had noticed it but accepted that it happened
<ali1234> oh, "just got used to it"
<popey> well rationalised it
<popey> figured it was because compiz can't preview a minimised window
<ali1234> it can though
<popey> and throws away the old one
<popey> or sommat
<ali1234> it's supposed to
<ali1234> sometimes the previews are really out of date as well
<ali1234> like sometimes when downloading a big file, the ff download window still shows partial, when the file finished ages ago
<ali1234> now that i think about it, i;m not sure if compiz can preview minimized or not
<ali1234> if it can't, you'd think that someone would have mentioned that when the whole idea of the switcher came up
<ali1234> cos it makes it terribly hard to actually use
<popey> right, i can reproduce that really easily
<ali1234> it might explain why unity always unminimizes every window of a group before displaying the switcher though
<popey> so i can show someone
<ali1234> which in itself is quite annoying
<popey> just minimising my irc and opening a new terminal then alt-tab and wait for previews
<ali1234> i think those are my two top bugs right now
<ali1234> not switching to the workspace with most of the window on it, and white boxes
<ali1234> i noticed a lot of my other bugs getting fixed recently so that's good
<ali1234> i think all the other bugs i have are multi monitor only
<ali1234> or design issues that have no chance of getting changed
<popey> multi-monitor is a big focus for them
<popey> i know that, was having a chat about it today
<popey> problem is it involves a huge number of people
<ali1234> well issue number 1 is there's no launcher on the second monitor
<ali1234> is there a tag or something that i should add to multimonitor specific bugs?
<ali1234> all these real dual head bugs are a bit trivial, just mildly annoying, you know
<i-pink> hii
<i-pink> how i can get the audio levels?
<i-pink> someone here?
<popey> ali1234: multimonitor
<popey> bug 843958 for example
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 843958 in Ayatana Design "multimonitor , window management - Multi-Monitor Maximized Difficulty" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/843958
<i-pink> i'm mean like a value in bash
<popey> i-pink: try pacmd ?
<i-pink> sudo apt-get install pacmd ??
<i-pink> i get "Welcome to PulseAudio! Use "help" for usage information"
<popey> so do I.
<i-pink> i typed "help" and i get bunch of commands
<popey> hmm, not as useful as I had hoped, most of the info is quite technical
<popey> what do you mean by 'audio levels'
<popey> like you see in alsamixer?
<i-pink> like vu meter
<ali1234> you just want a visible vu meter on the screen?
<i-pink> no no
<popey> ahh
<zleap> i have a simple css thing on my website that displays photos and on hovering over it make that photo bigger slightly works in firefox FAILS in IE 8 under XP  firefox - win
<popey> write better CSS âº
<popey> ali1234: ping me daytime tomorrow and I'll go poke someone about those bugs
<i-pink> popey, i want to send "1 logic" in serial when i get more than X dB sound in my mic
<zleap> hmm,  i got the code from a website,  i am not worried about IE i don't use it,
<ali1234> i just tagged a few multimonitor bugs
<zleap> i just got XP installed on my other PC and thought I would see if my website worked properly
<ali1234> one of them was unity 2d though
<Azelphur> Haha, some pirate website is hotlinking images from a friend of mine, so he's replaced the image with a big "WE ARE TOO CHEAP TO PAY FOR OUR OWN BANDWIDTH" banner :D
<bigcalm> I give up for the night
<bigcalm> Night peeps
<ohno> Is anyone here?
<ohno> i need help
<popey> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> popey: good news? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16493929
<daubers> Morning
<ts2> probably just re-branding and buzz-words
<popey> its interesting
<popey> believe it when i see it
<MartijnVdS> well sure, it's the government
 * daubers wonders how long it'll take them to put together an outreach campaign to get local businesses to help them achieve this
<ts2> the reason "IT" is boring is because (when I was at school) it was 90% "How to use Microsoft Office"
<ts2> and once we use FrontPage to make a web page
<popey> it still is ts2
 * daubers wonders if his book will arrive today
<daubers> I have some awesome visualisations to achieve
<MartijnVdS> daubers: which book?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: This one http://glbook.gamedev.net/GLBOOK/glbook.gamedev.net/boglgp2/index.html
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ooh shiny
<daubers> I'm going to have to train people in weird parts of the world soon on how to make NAS systems performant (including network stuff) so want to make some awesome visualisations to make it stick
 * daubers is hoping for a free trip to Oz \o/
<DJones> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o DJones
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Free trips to Oz are always nice to get :)
<DJones> Put the red shoes and click your heels daubers
<daubers> DJones: Nah, mums shoes don't fit me
<DJones> I can lend you some of my wifes, anywhere between an 7.5 and 9 shoe size
<MartijnVdS> you have multiple wives?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Seems like it at times, going on the amount of earache I ger
<DJones> get
<daubers> DJones: Too small again... looks like it'll need to be a plane ticket after all
<daubers> If there's an oggcamp this year, I might put a talk together based on my training materials
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> aloha
<DJones> virgin broadband users ->
<DJones> 09:07 <    DJones> There's lava in this cavern as well
<DJones> Grr http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16491614?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
<DJones> Doubling customer broadband speeds
<popey> ali1234: showed both those compiz bugs to the compiz and unity guys.. their reaction was a bemused 'woah!'
<popey> I am assigning them to dbo (Jason Smith)
<popey> although on the subject of white boxes he said 'hey dude, stop minimising shit!'
<popey> and 'just use 9 desktops, that what I do!'
<popey> bug 869628
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 869628 in unity (Ubuntu) "minimized windows - sometimes white rectangles are shown instead of window previews" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869628
<JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
<daubers> Exciting book has arrived \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<czajkowski> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16493929
<occupy64k> That's a very good idea
<occupy64k> It's in keeping with the Rushkoff narrative
<occupy64k> Also I expect that it has something to do with people who grew up in the 1980s being in positions of political influence.
<MartijnVdS> Too bad Dutch politicians never learned about Dijkstra :(
<MartijnVdS> we'll be stuck with Excel and Word education for a LONG time
<occupy64k> Teaching kids Word and Excel is preparing them for a world which really no longer exists
<occupy64k> In the 1980s wordprocessing and spreadsheets were about the only "serious" things which computers could do
<MartijnVdS> It's not on the agenda of any party in .nl
<MartijnVdS> Bashing immigrants is much more important, it seems :(
<occupy64k> My dutch friends would concur with that
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Everyone needs a scapegoat!
<occupy64k> Anyway I hope they do start teaching CS in schools
<occupy64k> It's relatively easy for kids to learn programming.  Learning French or German is much harder.
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: python!
<occupy64k> See the Douglas Rushkoff book "program or be programmed"
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: re people growing up in the 80s occupying politics
<occupy64k> python is good
<gordonjcp> I'm really keen to see what the next few years bring, particularly when those of us in our mid-to-late 30s who remember Black Monday and the guts dropping out of the stock market in a second
<occupy64k> http://youtu.be/JKAzZocdQ1Y
<gordonjcp> even the most staunchly large- and small-C conservatives I know that are about ages with me are really, really keen to keep things building so high and then falling
<occupy64k> The flash crashes are profitable for quote stuffers
<s-fox> Hello.
<silner> Hello s-fox
<s-fox> Hello silner , how are you?
<silner> Not bad
<silner> Haven't been on IRC in a while though and forgotten most of the chans I used to use
<silner> If I was smart I woulda saved a list :)
<s-fox> Haha
<bigcalm> Does vbox allow you to run 64bit OSs?
<bigcalm> It's been a while since I've messed with virtual machines
<awilkins> bigcalm, Yes, vbox lets you run a 64-bit OS, as long as your CPU supports hardware virtualization
<bigcalm> *shrug* :)
<bigcalm> How would I check that?
<awilkins> 1) Try it and if it fails with an error about vtx, it doesn't work
<awilkins> 2) Look in your BIOS (a lot of units are shipped with it disabled by default)
<awilkins> You'd be surprised how many units are shipped with it disabled (out of spite, I think, in the server market - they don't want you virtualizing servers and buying less hardware without paying for the privilege)
<bigcalm> This is a workstation
<awilkins> Most modern CPUs *support* it, but whether it's enabled on your hardware is another question
<bigcalm> Acer Veriton M460
<bigcalm> Good point
 * awilkins has no clue
<awilkins> try cat /proc/cpuinfo
<awilkins> But I have no idea which flags you need to support it :-)
<awilkins> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/linux-tip-how-to-tell-if-your-processor-supports-vt/
<awilkins> vmx
<bigcalm> vmx is listed on all 4 processors
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod how's life?
<bigcalm> Shame this machine can only support up to 4gb
 * popey pokes jnick_tait with a stick
<awilkins> bigcalm, It is deficient in slots? A laptop?
<bigcalm> How little a HD can I get away with for MS Windows Server
<bigcalm> awilkins: mobo doesn't support more than 4gb
<jnick_tait> jnick_tait bleeds from recently popey inflicted stick wound
<popey> http://www.moderncat.net/2011/02/25/introducing-urbancatdesign-new-line-of-modern-cat-furniture-from-the-netherlands/
<awilkins> bigcalm, Erk... I've seen reports that Windows 7 now eats about 16GB for it's base  install, so I shudder to think how much disk the server edition needs
<popey> CATS!
<popey> and DESIGN!
<bigcalm> :(
<awilkins> bigcalm, Give it as large an image as you can tolerate, and make it dynamic
<bigcalm> Looks like I'm going to have to hook up the spinning rust againt
<awilkins> That way at least it only eats as much as it uses
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> I have 25gb free on my ssd. The ISO download is 4gb
<awilkins> Ow
<awilkins> Get a 32-bit SD card to put it on?
<awilkins> Sorry, 32GB
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I also have a 320gb usb hd not in use. Not sure it would like it though
<awilkins> I know the feeling, I have a 64GB SSD for my working image... working on a storage-hungry Java application and feeling the itch to trade up to 128GB
<awilkins> Which now costs what the 64GB one did when I bought it
<awilkins> I love SSDs for portable external work drives though
<bigcalm> I have a 120gb ssd on order from Amazon. But that's going in the laptop
<awilkins> I'd gone through three spinning rust units due to headcrashes before I bought it
<bigcalm> At least the 4gb ISO is downloading at 3.7mb/s
<bigcalm> Look forward to that doubling some time in the next 18 months. Thank you VM ;)
<awilkins> Heh, yes, hooray for 30Mbit/s * 2
<awilkins> Not sure what I'd DO with 60Mbit/s
<bigcalm> Download ISOs
<awilkins> There must be some ulterior motive for them, maybe they are doing their own media-on-demand business
<awilkins> Or they are just feeling the pressure from BTs offering
<bigcalm> That's already the case
<awilkins> There is a limit to the number of ISO images I can profitably use in a day
<bigcalm> As well as catch up tv (iplayer et al), there is tv and film on demand (depending upon your tv package size)
<awilkins> I have the base one
<awilkins> And I don't have a set-top box
<awilkins> We are a FreeView / MythTV house
<bigcalm> popey: cool link :)
<bigcalm> awilkins: ah, fair enough
<awilkins> We very occasionally use iPlayer but otherwise the TB of storage in the MythTV box is enough
<awilkins> Well, I say "enough", but I think if I shoved another TB in there, wifelet would fill THAT with cheesy old Doris Day movies too.
<bigcalm> Would she watch them?
<awilkins> Or yet another production of Pride and Prejudice (what IS it about that thing that women love?)
<bigcalm> My mum seems to record everything on telly and watches a little
<awilkins> bigcalm, The watching is optional. I think I may have to adjust my auto-expiry policy to start expiring unwatched content though.
<bigcalm> The fantasy I think. The hope that they too could live that life
<Dave2> Argh, Pride and Prejudice. I think I must subconsciously know when it's being discussed somewhere.
<awilkins> They want years of crippling emotional frustration and systematized gender repression where their only worth is their ability to attract a husband with a good income... odd
<bigcalm> The clothes are pretty and they don't have to work
<awilkins> Yeah... I also have issues with the social strata portrayed in these things ; it's pretty much the period equivalent of a Hello magazine shoot of the 1%
<awilkins> At least Dickens got into the gritty end of things
<awilkins> "The clothes are pretty and they don't have to work" ; that also seems to apply to the gentlemen (although I do like some of their coats)
<awilkins> Kickstarter project : Movie - "Pride and Extreme Prejudice" : a modern 21st century girl is time-travelled back to the 18th century and starts the gender revolution slightly earlier than planned....
<bigcalm> :D
<awilkins> (then breaks down in tears and admits that all she really wants is to be cared for by a gentleman who earns Â£50,000 a year and looks good in a wet shirt and tight jodphurs climbing out of a lake)
<bigcalm> Oh dear :)
<bigcalm> This doesn't look good
<bigcalm> usb hd isn't showing up
<bigcalm> I would tail -f /var/log/messages, but it doesn't exist :S
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> USB cable was plugged into the machine but not into the drive :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: D'oh
<bigcalm> Windows setup cannie cope
<bigcalm> This is eating my day :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: It's windows what did you expect?
<bigcalm> I don't know what to expect from anything any more
<davmor2> bigcalm: Muhahaha
<bigcalm> I'm tired but will now throw myself at the mercy of the wii fit
<awilkins> bigcalm, Usually log messages about drive insertions will also end up in /var/log/kern.log
 * awilkins hates setting up Windows, always some problem with storage hardware
<awilkins> And then the inevitable 10 reboot cycles for updates
<awilkins> Locating driver packs online
<awilkins> *sob*
<daubers> Urgh.. fibre glass insulation is horrid
<awilkins> daubers, Yes.
<awilkins> Squirrels got into our loft and made a mess of ours too
<daubers> I've just been in the roof of a house I'm looking at buying
<awilkins> Made nests out of it. I hope they itched.
<daubers> so now I itch
<gordonjcp> fibreglass itchulation
<awilkins> Replaced it with the stuff that comes in mylar bag/roll
<awilkins> Was half price in local DIY shop
<awilkins> Well, by replaced I mean "supplemented what little scraps the bastard squirrels left"
<awilkins> The squirrels... are no longer an issue.
<daubers> awilkins: 12 bore?
<awilkins> daubers, Cage trap + peanut butter
<daubers> heh
<dewar_> hello
<daubers> Hello
<dewar_> Im running linux and need some help
<daubers> dewar_: Ask away :)
<dewar_> I have ubuntu distro installed and running fine
<dewar_> i had it all set up to run kde and that works great
<dewar_> then i installed the LXDE and have that working and its fantastic
<dewar_> but now dont know how to get back to kde
<daubers> did you install lxde from the software center?
<daubers> (or from apt-get on the command line)?
<shauno> you should be able to select a 'session' at the login screen; after you select a user (or type in your username), but before you've completed the login, the option will be present
<dewar_> from the muon softwar center
<daubers> dewar_: As shauno says, there should be a "session" option at the login screen
<dewar_> ok ill have a look thanks
<shauno> sorry, didn't mean to jump ya there.  just too far long to type on this
<daubers> shauno: No probs :)
<daubers> shauno: Phone?
<shauno> nah, just spent enough time off work that having full-travel keys again is interesting
<dewar__> that was easy
<dewar__> cool
<dewar__> thanks, there lots to learn but its a lot of fun
<shauno> awesome.  I'm not sure 'session' is the most intuitive name, but once you know it's there .. :)
<davmor2> tonytiger: good news for you dude http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/corel-aftershot-pro-brings-lightroom-competitor-to-linux/
<tonytiger> davmor2: No great change really. It's only a re-badged version of Bibble, which I already use.
<davmor2> tonytiger: :( here I am trying to help out you semi pro photographers and that's the thanks I get ;)
<tonytiger> davmor2: :)
<tonytiger> Actually, Corel buying Bibble raises more questions about long term support for Linux, as Corel haven't exactly embraced it for their other apps.
<shauno> neat - I didn't know Corel still existed
<shauno> they've tried on & off over the years, but it never seems to end well.  they even had their own distro at the end of the 90s
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to successfully add a rss feed to linkedin? I don't have an account nor do I wish to. A client seems to be struggling with the feed I created
<davmor2> tonytiger: I'm waiting for corel linux 2 to make you eat those words ;)
<Dave2> I must admit, I didn't realize Corel were still around.
<davmor2> tonytiger: you're right though they are identical
<tonytiger> Well, very similar. Aftershot has had a bit of UI polish
<gord> sometimes get the feeling that all my android apps are just fixing what should be basic functionality
<gord> had to pay Â£4 for something that would block unknown calls
 * MartijnVdS gives gord the SDK
<awilkins> Providers don't want that built into the platform... they wouldn't be able to offer it as a chargeable service...
<awilkins> When you see the list of things that providers charge even ${local_currency}1 for you cry inside as a techy
<awilkins> I mean, some of them, they must have made a choice and blocked or disabled them so they can charge you to switch them back on...
<bigcalm> That puts an end to my attempts of installing windows small business server. It requires a minimum of 160gb free space
<gordonjcp> wtf
<gordonjcp> *how* much?
<bigcalm> That's what I thought
<bigcalm> It didn't get that far to tell me when trying to install on a vbox, so I booted up my old workstation to try and install it on a physical machine
<bigcalm> For amusement, I then rebooted the machine to see what I had installed on it already - 8.04 LTS
<bigcalm> I haven't used that machine for almost 4 years now
<bigcalm> I found a 500gb drive, installation continues!
<AdvoWork> just done a fresh install of 11.04 on a laptop. Im trying to change the desktop back to the classic. It says search for Login screen and change it that way, yet i can't find that option. Searching for Login only shows the user accounts sections. Any ideas please?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] YO - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/11/yo/
<daubers> AdvoWork: Should be a sessions option on that screen, it will be in there
<daubers> at the bottom
<popey> AdvoWork: you need to logout
<popey> to get the login screen
<MartijnVdS> You need to click "Start" to shut down!
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Which OS are you using?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS is such a tease
<AlanBell> AdvoWork: on the login screen you should by default have a cog icon to the right of the username which allows you to select the session type
<AlanBell> I think you need to install the gnome-session-fallback package to get the classic look
<shauno> does the session thing still do the trick where it doesn't show up until you've already selected a user?
<popey> no
<shauno> haven't seen lightdm yet, but that used to be my favourite gotcha with gdm
<AdvoWork> AlanBell, ive logged out, and on the left hand side i see the username listed, and a cog. I click that but nothing happens(no menu's) or anything else either
<AlanBell> AdvoWork: hmm, interesting, it should look like this: http://www.liberiangeek.net/2011/08/return-to-ubuntu-classic-desktop-in-ubuntu-11-10/
<AdvoWork> but also from that screen, i cant press the button to close the computer, or the sound etc. Its like it has crashed, yet i can still type and move the mouse
<AdvoWork> AlanBell, i get the same login screen, but no options. Let me reboot and try again just incase
<AdvoWork> now i can click on the cog, but the only options I get are Ubuntu and Ubuntu 2D
<daubers> Are you on 11.10?
<AlanBell> AdvoWork: ok, did you install gnome-session-fallback?
<AdvoWork> AlanBell, only just spotted that, trying now. and daubers yeah
<daubers> ah! Thought you where on 11.04 initially, that had gnome-session-fallback by default, 11.10 doesn't
<ali1234> how could i make a shell script that kills all other running instances of itself?
<ali1234> ah i can use killall --older-than
<AdvoWork> that worked thanks, but now my System menu is missing Applications Places then normally System. Can I reenable that somehow? Im looking for Update Manager
<jutnux> Hello gents
<jutnux> and ladies
<AlanBell> nice recovery jutnux ;)
<AlanBell> AdvoWork: sorry, not sure about that one
<jutnux> Yes, I forgot daubers was in here ;)
<jutnux> Haha, I don't want to be perceived as sexist ;-)
<jutnux> Aww, my Sister is asking me about keyboard shortcuts. Next step, Ubuntu.
<AdvoWork> how can i access gconf-editor if Alt + F2 wont worjk?
<jutnux> AdvoWork: Cntrl+Alt+T
<jutnux> type gksudo gconf-editor
<AdvoWork> jutnux, that crashes it for some reason "unable to locate theme engine in module_path pitxmap
<jutnux> sudo aptitude install gtk2-engines-pixbuf
<jutnux> apt-get
<jutnux> not aptitude, my bad
<jutnux> See if that works, it should work anyway though.
<dewar____> hi, whats the quickest way to swich sessions in lxde?
<jutnux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9a5V9ODuY
<dogmatic69> how can I remove the d flag on file permissions?
<AlanBell> that means it is a directory
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Social Ubuntu TV - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/11/social-ubuntu-tv/
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<jutnux> Sherlock is so gooooooooooood
<davmor2> popey: I didn't know you had done an advert for moneysupermarket.com everyone will start calling you Brian you know
<davmor2> Tell me this isn't popey http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/01/06/moneysupermarket-launches-new-epic-ad-set-las-vegas :D
<AlanBell> I was going to tell you to stop being so silly
<AlanBell> but then I watched it
<jandro> does anyone know of a good alternative to torrentflux-b4rt with multi-user support and is web-based? cheers
<jacobw> christ
<jacobw> that's scary
<gord> no crazy eyes
<jacobw> http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/01/11/1332222/british-schoolchildren-to-get-programming-lessons
<kvarley1> Is it possible to start an X environment from an SSH session?
<gord> ugh ubuntu events, my hotel wifi is currently measured in bytes per second =\
<brobostigon> :(
<gord> apparently not enough internet to run google plus really
<brobostigon> wow.
<brobostigon> can you get 3g/hsdpa/lte/4g etc?
<gord> at like Â£2 a meg yeah ;)
<brobostigon> ouch
<gordonjcp> gord: :-)
<gord> phones just sitting there disconnecting and reconnecting. the poor thing, it'll drain its battery
<mattt> think it's a sign you should go out and drink :)
<gord> coffee? at the starbucks down the road? that has free wifi?
<mattt> DRINK
<mgdm> I'm going to recompile Adium without that %^$Â£ Attention button
<mgdm> it's pointless and too easy to hit
<AlanBell> one hour to get your bids in http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Model-B-beta-board-01-limited-series-10-/180786868894?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a17bcb29e
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-12
<Azelphur> Anyone here got chromium (daily or from the Ubuntu repos) and mind testing a page for me?
<directhex> i have firefox on windows. close enough?
<Azelphur> Nope, haha
<Azelphur> I have an odd rendering bug that I think is actually a bug in the browser
<Azelphur> Think it might just be in the dailies though
<Azelphur> Page layout == broken, Open chromium inspector, Page layout == magically fixed \o/
<Azelphur> and somehow I doubt the entire page layout should change, simply by the action of opening the inspector haha
<DJones> Morning all
<Myrtti> morning UGT
<popey> UGH
<Myrtti> popey: feeling tender?
 * TheOpenSourcerer feels like death warmed (only just) up.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have the worst sore throat *evah*.
<popey> a bit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Spent the last two days doing vtiger CRM training/consulting, getting up at stupid o-clock, i.e. < 5am driving loads and not sleeping well. Today will be a quiet day for me.
<gord> this *entire* week, to go to work, i have had to walk like maybe 500x the amount i normally have to walk to go to work, its been the worst thing ever
<daubers> Morning
<awilkins> I like this coach on the train. No-one can be bothered to walk this far up the platform to take their reserved seat.
<popey> haha gord
<popey> we walked over the river last night
<popey> my legs still ache
<gord> popey, over to the castle? went there during budapest uds, not a bad place, such a tourist trap though
<awilkins> My favourite thing in Budapest was on old swimming bath
<popey> it was empty at 1pm when we went there gord
<awilkins> They looked at me like I was mad though - "You are rich western businessman in hotel, you want to use our crappy pool?"
<awilkins> Lovely architecture.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I had a nice time in Budapest. The steep climb up to the old city is quite a stroll.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The first couple of hours I got there, I was wandering the new town, window shopping, when an attractive lady approached me asking if I would like a guide. I said "no thank you" then she replied with "What's your problem, don't you like sex?" lol
<directhex> fosdem is coming up zomg zomg zomg
<Myrtti> oh dear, what is the name of the webbased multiuser texteditor again? not google docs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do you mean etherpad Myrtti ?
<Myrtti> thank you
<directhex> etherlol
<directhex> nothing says "enterprise" like running three copies of OpenOffice as background daemons
<gord> there is a "spooky cave" system that i went in, its all so fake that its funny ;) got some fun 3d pictures of some weird red wine fountain though http://3dporch.com/gc4e
<gord> rest of the 3d photos i got that day are fun too http://3dporch.com/users/gordallott
<directhex> ARGH SHAKYCAM
<gord> get yourself a 3ds and download the mpo files :P
<directhex> Model               |Nintendo 3DS
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> you can view mpo files on a ps3, btw
<gord> 3ds is a neat bit of kit for 3d, wrote a script the other day that converts 3d video into the format 3ds needs, can watch 3d things on my 3ds now
<directhex> http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/playmemories
<Myrtti> gord: ooooooo
<Myrtti> nice
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing Required: Unity PPA - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/
<Myrtti> gord: please share?
<AlanBell> Myrtti: etherpad-lite is very nice
<AlanBell> directhex: etherpad-lite uses abiword rather than OOo
<AlanBell> and node.js serverside javascript rather than java
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<Myrtti> AlanBell: we were just having a discussion in #ubuntu-se about how to do multiuser editing of LaTeX - I used to use MediaWiki for sketching and transfer the end result to LaTeX
<AlanBell> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<gord> Myrtti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/762582/ - requires 3d video in left/right format (the same one that youtube and most other things use) - 3ds has a limit of 10 minutes per video too so you have to split the video up before encoding
<Myrtti> bookmarked
<gord> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf3BMLh_zGk is particularly nice in 3d
 * directhex has a 3d tv & high-res 3d camera, but no 3ds
<Myrtti> gord: OMG the noise in the beginning
<Myrtti> ARGH
<gord> Myrtti, http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKf3BMLh_zGk&start1=15&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSoSG3m4FHgQ&start2=0&authorName=gord might help ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning, all! :D
<gord> why oh why does my phone think i'm in dublin Ireland...
<directhex> gord, because it's using an IP address for geolocation, and there's a proxy someplace causing the misidentifcation?
<directhex> similarly, mobile o2 users often get given german google
<gord> oh, right - i remember now. its the AP
<gord> used to happen with dallas too
<gord> google did a scan or something so whenever i hooked up to the ubuntu wifi network that gets taken out to events it would think i was in dallas, now it thinks i'm in the last place it scanned, so dublin i guess
<Myrtti> herm.
<Myrtti> can anyone think of a web service where I could put a pin on Google Maps or similar and tell it to draw a circle according to driving time?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Oh dear, PremierInn still don't get it
<bigcalm> Just received an email promoting their 30mins free wifi!
<bigcalm> They should be offering unlimited free wifi
<bigcalm> If service stations can do it...
<Laney> only Â£9.99 per hour thereafter?
<bigcalm> 3 quid for 24 hours usage apparently
<bigcalm> In this day and age, wifi should not be something you have to pay extra for at a hotel
<Myrtti> well three quids isn't too bad for occasional user
<Myrtti> could be far far worse
<AlanBell> meeting tonight peeps
<bigcalm> Tether to mobile phone, carry on regardless
<daubers> AlanBell: Time?
<AlanBell> 9PM
<daubers> okies :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mgdm> 'ello brobostigon, how goes?
<brobostigon> mgdm: not so hot, my eczema is not so good, and feeling ill, and you?
 * bigcalm prays to the all mighty god Dermovate Cream
<mgdm> brobostigon: I'm OK - bit similar though not to the same degree
<brobostigon> mgdm: ok.
<Myrtti> I feel cheated
<Myrtti> "Great British Cooking" book has yorkshire puds as the cover picture, but the book doesn't have a recipe for them.
<christel> haha
<davmor2> morning all
<mgdm> Myrtti: fail. Though they're not hard - I think I got one off the BBC's site last I looked
<davmor2> popey: aka brian how's life
<Myrtti> mgdm: I know they're not hard, but I'm baffled at this failure. they're referenced to three times in the book, and the closest to a recipe it gets in "Toad in the hole" recipe "yorkshire pudding with sausages" - but it is just... baffling
<Myrtti> also baffled by the book having been printed in China
<TheOpenSourcerer> Myrtti: YPs. 110g plain flour, 290ml milk, 2 eggs, pinch of salt.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Will make 12 popovers or one large YP
<AlanBell> or some pancakes
<christel> mmmpancakes
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer, AlanBell, christel: Have you seen the latest epic moneysupermarket advert?
<AlanBell> the one with popey in it?
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yeap that exact one
<christel> haha yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Nope. tend not to watch tv much and if I happen to be on commercial tv generally ignore ads anyway.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/01/06/moneysupermarket-launches-new-epic-ad-set-las-vegas  tell me it isn't popey
<bigcalm> davmor2: linky?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<bigcalm> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - yep, that was popey a few years ago.
<davmor2> AlanBell: the best of it is I saw it laughed and went that's popey and my mrs who has only met him once agreed
<bigcalm> davmor2: yep, that's popey alright
<JGJones> bigcalm - I often get free wifi at PremierInn
<christel> i guess canonical just doesn't pay him enough!
<davmor2> christel: that or it was recorded before he started his new job when he was contracting :)
<christel> hehe
<andylockran> morning all!
<mattt> morning morning
<davmor2> gord: when you see popey you need to start calling him Brian ;)
<popey> or not
<czajkowski> hmmm my precsise install is further acting up
<czajkowski> tempted to go back to oneiric
<czajkowski> when i power off and shut down
<czajkowski> it doesnt seem to be doing so as i wake up to no battery
<czajkowski> which is a bit bloody annoying
<davmor2> popey: No you are brian from that advert you can try and deny it all you want but we know it's you really ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Morning Darling how are we today :D
<czajkowski> fantastic my dear as always
<czajkowski> my day brightens up when I see davmor2
 * davmor2 throws up in the bin
 * AlanBell wonders if popey is feeling epic
<bigcalm> "Vote Up requires 15 reputation" This irritates me as to get reputation I have to answer a question but I've yet to find one I can answer
<davmor2> AlanBell: haha
 * bigcalm flings unplesantaries at JungleDisk
 * daubers wants to sleep
<bigcalm> I've downloaded a .deb and installed it via the software centre. How do I then uninstall it? I can only see an option to reinstall
<davmor2> bigcalm: did it install correctly?
<bigcalm> No idea :)
<bigcalm> Managed to uninstall it by finding out the package name
<bigcalm> Odd that the software centre doesn't list packages installed from .debs
<davmor2> bigcalm: it does under others
<popey> bigcalm: filter and show only unanswered?
<bigcalm> popey: yep, and I still can't find something I know about
<popey> heh
<popey> you can get points from other stackexchange sites AIUI
<bigcalm> Humm, ok
<Laney> I think you can get points for asking questions too
<dewar> Hi, any1 here programming with python on kde?
<directhex> hm. the cpu core on the raspberry pi's SoC is the same as the iphone 1, albeit at a higher clock rate
<davmor2> popey: or you can install the arb approved unity lens askubuntu
<popey> davmor2: how?
<davmor2> popey: I don't understand lenses it's just there :D
<popey> 'there'
<popey> where is 'there'
<davmor2> popey: it's available in USC.  under unity-lens-askubuntu iirc
<davmor2> popey: wow I earned enough points to do stuff on it now
<popey> davmor2: nope, not here it isnt
<davmor2> popey: try clicking on view technical
<popey> where?
<popey> there is no view technical option
<davmor2> popey: it is there and it is unity-lens-askubuntu
<popey> it isnt
<davmor2> popey: bottom left on the USC main panel
<AlanBell> davmor2: precise or oneiric or both?
<davmor2> popey: ah hang on it might only be enabled for Oneiric
<davmor2> AlanBell: checking precise now
<gord> hope someone is working on making the software centre quicker to show this cycle, would be nice
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Workspace%201_051.png
<AlanBell> what a sad little face
<davmor2> gord: it already does on precise
<gord> still takes 5 seconds or so here davmor2
<davmor2> gord: mvo has code to get trunk to open in 1 second, not sure how long it takes to load post that bit though
<davmor2> popey: Hmmm
<gord> yeah all i really care about is that there is a window
<gord> something that says "hey, don't get bored and start doing other things, you'll regret doing that when i pop over you"
<davmor2> popey: /home/davmor2/Ubuntu One/screenshots/USC-askubuntu.png
<davmor2> popey: I'll try that again http://ubuntuone.com/7XCW8MD7p8KSI0KICM8Xfh
<davmor2> popey: looks like it isn't available for precise
<Laney> ARB packages don't carry over
<AlanBell> which is not very appealing to developers wanting to use that really
<davmor2> Laney: we are still working through some of these teething issues this is the first app approved by arb that has been released using the new method
<Laney> I know all about the ARB ;-)
<AlanBell> it is as bad as the partner archive :(
<Laney> the primary archive is da bomb
<AlanBell> it is
 * Gary is excited!
<davmor2> AlanBell: The same is true of the for purchase apps,  we have a mass migration sprint towards beta stage to see what works and what doesn't before enabling it for the next release
<Gary> I pick up a new car on Saturday!
<daubers> Gary: Cor! You must have been doing lots of bench presses in preparation
<Gary> daubers: hahaha
<davmor2> daubers: no new cars are much lighter than old cars
<AlanBell> davmor2: so purchase apps will be there from the release date?
<davmor2> AlanBell: there or there abouts we are still waiting on some to be updated by the devs so we can release them on oneiric like wunderlist for example
 * daubers puts an offer in on a house
<davmor2> offer rejected we don't want scruffs like you in our neighbourhood ;)
<daubers> davmor2: Since I've offered him 25k less than what he wanst, it probably will be
<davmor2> daubers: depends on the cost of the house and how long it's been on the market :)
<AlanBell> my brother had a rather cheeky offer accepted on a house recently, he should be moving in soon.
<czajkowski> daubers: ohh where ?
<czajkowski> Gary: very sexy car
<daubers> czajkowski: Thatcham
<Myrtti> must... restrain... the fist... of death....
<kirrus> monsterwizard: fist of death?
<monsterwizard> I'm sorry? :S
<kirrus> argh, silly autocomplete
<kirrus> Myrtti: fist of death?
<kirrus> ;)
<kirrus> sorry monsterwizard
<Myrtti> kirrus: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6684418763/
<kirrus> Myrtti: frustrating!.. though you uploaded the error message shot to flickr ok I see ;)
<Myrtti> kirrus: didn't use shotwell to upload it :-/
<Myrtti> took 14 attempts to upload 156 pictures, the biggest batch was 18
<alexwillmer> Afternoon all, I'm trying to get my head around ulimit and limits.conf. If I set a limit such as -v (virtual memory size) is that limit enforced per child process, across all child processes or something else?
<kirrus> Myrtti: give up and use a different uploader?
<alexwillmer> My ultimate aim is to restrict Apache to a total amount of RAM given a ServerLimit of 20
<Myrtti> kirrus: but that would be admitting you've been defeated...
<AlanBell> alexwillmer: at least some of them are per-user limits
<monsterwizard> Arch linux or gentoo?
<gord> had to open banshee just to buy some music, crashed twice and nearly hung during my purchase :(
<alexwillmer> AlanBell: but which ones, man ulimit doesn't say and google returns many man pages + forums
<AlanBell> alexwillmer: sorry, not sure, I only know about -n which is the number of files per user which has a default of 1024 which can be a bit low for some server applications
<s-fox> Hello
<kirrus> hello s-fox
<s-fox> Hello kirrus , how are you?
<kirrus> Myrtti: yes... but sometimes that's all you can do
<kirrus> s-fox: good, thanks, you?
<kirrus> Myrtti: I did scan for error 7, but couldn't find anything helpful in the flickr docs
<s-fox> kirrus,  So so, at work...working very hard ;)
<Myrtti> kirrus: I know, I did too
<kirrus> s-fox: best thing to be doing at work!
<davmor2> Myrtti: you almost sound angry that you can't upload photo's
<Laney> it's... oh... so... quiet...
<bigcalm> Shhhhh
<davmor2> bede bede,  It's...... Oh...... So ........ Stilll
<kirrus> 'Twas the night before christmas, when all through the house / Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.'
<Myrtti> davmor2: that's because photography is one of the constant joys of my life
<christel> but but
<christel> i thought i was the only joy of your life
<bigcalm> Window's "Remote Desktop Connection" allows me to connect to a Windows 2008 server. Linux "Remote Desktop Viewer" isn't able to do so. What might I be doing wrong? :)
<Myrtti> christel: that's because you're a woman. Men are so untrustworthy
<bigcalm> Myrtti: love you too :)
<kirrus> bigcalm: firewall? I've never had a problem with RDP before
<Myrtti> bigcalm: hugses and kisses xxxx
<bigcalm> kirrus: it's getting to the windows server box, but the login interface is different
<bigcalm> Myrtti: I hope that penginue is keeping you warm at night :)
<christel> <3 Myrtti
<bigcalm> !
<kirrus> bigcalm: never used the remote desktop on server 2008, only 2k, so don't know.. worth digging around in the control panel?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I put him on my bookcase to keep company with my pololbear and puffin while I was away
<bigcalm> kirrus: was a matter of domain name
<kirrus> bigcalm: ahh, that makes sense :)
<Myrtti> correction: pololbears
 * bigcalm grumbles at having to deal with windows
<bigcalm> Now I have to figure out how to use IIS correctly
<bigcalm> Myrtti: yay :)
 * kirrus sympathises with bigcalm, and wishes him lots of luck
<andylockran> IIS ?
<bigcalm> andylockran: windows web server
<andylockran> yeah
 * davmor2 falls out with Myrtti for saying hurtful things :D  Is it just an api update flickr side that hasn't been added to shotwell and have you reported it if it isn't?
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<Myrtti> davmor2: the error message isn't helpful enough for me to know which side is the problem
<Myrtti> and right now I want to smash something - my photo harddrive unmounted before my imported photos had been written on it and I made shotwell delete the pictures from the memory card in the import process
 * AlanBell wonders what a pololbear looks like
<Myrtti> perhaps I'll just go get a drink before I launch photorec
<bigcalm> I just made a vhost called ipa. That's made my day a little brigher
<bigcalm> brighter
<jutnux> Evening all.
<davmor2> Myrtti: Here have this chill pill, take a deep breath and then start again.  By the way I found a good rpg is excellent for stress release you run around killing things you feel much better honest
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Myrtti> davmor2: usually imagining smashing things helps too.
<Myrtti> or I could put on the soundtrack song for computer problems
<kirrus> bigcalm: why.. IsoPropanolAlcohol? :/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.puffgames.com/bubblewrap/
<bigcalm> kirrus: IPA to me means Indian Pale Ale
<kirrus> ahh.. spent too much time in a sound-engineering lab, using it to clean electronics ;)
<kirrus> Your version sounds much nicer
<bigcalm> kirrus: you were close with the alcohol ;)
<kirrus> Aye, just a sort you never wanted to drink ;)
<bigcalm> I have PHP running on a windows hosted website. Pleased that I've got this far. Not pleased that it takes this much effort. Took half a day just to install windows :(
<jutnux> Wamp \o/
<bigcalm> jutnux: I have to replicate a client's set up so I can do dev here. Not liking it
<bigcalm> Only 11 mins left to the day though \o/
<jutnux> Unlucky haha.
<Myrtti> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6685382429
<davmor2> Myrtti: nice
<cgriff> :(
<cgriff> Sorry wrong window ^
<AlanBell> "Happy New Year \o/" seems a bit past it now, what should I put in the topic?
<awilkins> echo 'Happy New Year' | sed 's/H/Cr/'
<Azelphur> Happy 12th of January?
<awilkins> "Will Precise be the last, or second to last ever Ubuntu? #EndOfDays"
<Azelphur> "IT'S PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME, PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME, YEA YEA, YEA YEA NOW THERE YOU GO, THERE YOU GO, DO THA PEANUT BUTTER JELLY..." ?
 * AlanBell feeds awilkins some more happy pills
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 12th January 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Happy 12th of January \o/
<Azelphur> haha, yay :D
<AlanBell> best of a weak set of suggestions :)
<Azelphur> lol
<awilkins> I cannot emote. But it's because my phone doesn't support it, not because I have flattening of affect. #PsychiatricSymptom
<awilkins> I may apply for a job with a company I hate just to see if they would meet my heinous demands for working for them.
<Pendulum> awilkins: what if they meet them?
<awilkins> Might even take them up on it...
<awilkins> If you have to choose between stupid crap and *well paid* stupid crap....
<awilkins> As you discern above, my work isn't leaving me esp. cheery right now.
<Pendulum> right
<awilkins> 300+ GBP/day and a shorter commute buys a lot of cheery (might be able to push them higher, I'm basically a per
<awilkins> oops sorry
<awilkins> was in buffer from earlier
<Azelphur> gotta love when that happens :D
 * AlanBell spies TheOpenSourcerer in the paper
<TheOpenSourcerer> ORLY?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Doing what may I ask?
<TheOpenSourcerer> And in which paper?
 * AlanBell scans
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/nicehat.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Which paper is that from AlanBell
<AlanBell> the Herald
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
<AlanBell> oh no, it was fundraising for a scam /o\
<TheOpenSourcerer> What? You mean Team Hannah?
<AlanBell> they are well intentioned, but the thing they want the money for is decidedly not :(
<gordonjcp> hmm
<gordonjcp> is 12.04 going to be less memory-hungry when it's released?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh really? It's not something I have taken a lot of interest in myself. I know she is now in the US undergoing "treatment". Whatever that is.
<jutnux> What is Team Hannah?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://teamhannah.com/
<AlanBell> http://rhysmorgan.co/2011/11/threats-from-the-burzynski-clinic/ http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/05/harnessing_peoples_good_to_pay_for_woo.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Burzynski
<gordonjcp> oh, so it's fundraising to send her to the fake doctor with the piss injection thing?
<AlanBell> dunno what the content is, but it is a clinical trial that has been running for 25 years. You can charge what you like for a clinical trial, and it doesn't have to be proven to work or not, and as long as it never finishes and publishes any results it can keep on going
<jutnux> If this guy truly has the cure for cancer he'd sell it to the US making him billions.
<jutnux> ..
<jutnux> or release it for free and make money off of the media, if he wasn't a douche
<Seeker`> Anyoen got any idea how to make XShmGetImage work with NVidia + VPDAU without disabling the overlay?
<Neoti_Laptop> Hi ... does anyone know what chipset/motherboard the virgin media tivo uses as i was just sat looking at the tivo and my xbmc box and thinking it would be cool if the two could be merged together IE putting XBMC on virgin tivo etc ?
<Neoti_Laptop> or does anyone have a tivo box there willing to donate to "research".....
<directhex> it'll be a mips in tivo won't it?
<directhex> broadcom BCM7413
<directhex> rebadged TiVo Premiere XL, basically
<Neoti_Laptop> i wander if it would be possible to hack ubuntu and xbmc on to it...lol
<directhex> short answer: no
<directhex> long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<ali1234> xbmc needs 3d support
<ali1234> i doubt that broadcom chip has it
<directhex> the broadcom chip has plenty of 3d support. but nobody does "locked down" like broadcom
<directhex> you'll never make it boot your own kernel
<ali1234> unneccesary
<directhex> broadcom don't publish datasheets. but there are indications that it has opengl es support.
<directhex> "Broadcom now supports the OpenGL ES API as its official 3D graphics API. At the present time, the 3D core exists in the BCM7038 and BCM7400 devices. In the future, the 3D core may be included in a variety of Broadcom set-top devices." - the 7400 and 7413 have the same 3d core.
<jacobw> evening
<jutnux> Switched to Git from Mercurial
<jutnux> And I love it
<Neoti_Laptop> excellent... now how can i hack linux and xbmc on to the tivo ... humm ... gonna work on that ...
<Neoti_Laptop> would be intresting ...
<jacobw> jutnux: what's better about it?
<jutnux> It just seems to flow much easier
<directhex> hg is the only "major" one i've never used
<directhex> i used darcs when the banshee magnatune plugin was kept in darcs
<directhex> jutnux: that's quite an indictment, because git is carefully assembled to be unintuitive and backwards
<jutnux> Well I like it haha and the GitHub web-interface is also nice.
<directhex> github has some nice features beyond basic git
<directhex> forking workflow is delightful
<Azelphur> directhex: the only thing that worries me about github is that it's not open source / your putting all your eggs in one basket :P
<directhex> indeed
<BigRedS> Only if you only put your code on github
<directhex> you can push to a non-github repo of course
<BigRedS> well, yeah, which is what you'd do if you didn't want all your eggs in one basket
<bigcalm> What's the recommended svn client for windows? Preferably with a CLI
<MartijnVdS> svn?
 * bigcalm gives it a go
<bigcalm> There isn't just one
<bigcalm> http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html#windows
<SuperEngineer> hi folks, here's a heads-up for late upgraders from Linux Today: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-01-12-006-39-NW-KN
<BigRedS> In case anyone's interested, it's about kernel vulns in 8.04
<SuperEngineer> BigRedS: [sorry - I meant to add that bit but you beat me]  ;
<BigRedS> haha
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<BigRedS> It just took so long to load for me, I thought I'd help anyone not interested avoid the wait :)
<AlanBell> right, meeting in a sec
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> How did I forget and why am I here?
<SuperEngineer> what! surely not [almost] ontime ;D
<popey> Evening all
<bigcalm> Howdy doodie
 * AlanBell waves in the direction of #ubuntu-uk-meeting for the meeting that will start about nowish
<popey> oooh
<bigcalm> Sheesh
<bigcalm> Does SQL Server really need to be a 4gb ISO?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: apt-get install postgresql
<MartijnVdS> -9.1
 * bigcalm kippers MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> hmm kippers
<directhex> bigcalm: yes!
<bigcalm> directhex: why?
<directhex> bigcalm: to fit all the awesomesauce!
<bigcalm> I should have downloaded this during work hours and enjoyed 3.7mb/s. Instead I'm doing it during peak consumer hours and getting 1.8mb/s :(
<directhex> 3.7M is your *work* speed? poor bigcalm
<bigcalm> directhex: considering that I work from home
<bigcalm> :)
<directhex> i still declare it to be "teh slows"
<bigcalm> Will be happy once VM double our speeds in the next 18 months
<awilkins> I find 30MB quite pleasing, more than adequate.
<awilkins> I do wonder what to do with 60Mbit/s
<jutnux> I have 5mb
<directhex> "The BT Group has today released its latest financial results to 31st March 2011 (Q1), which reveal that the operator plans to double the speed of its superfast FTTC broadband service to 80Mbps in 2012 and should reach 100Mbps in the future. "
<directhex> sorted
<jutnux> My sister saw Microshaft at BETT
<bigcalm> No need to twist the company name like that :)
<popey> jutnux: i think you mean Microsoft
<bigcalm> Unless that was really the company name
<jutnux> Yes, that was probably extremely immature of me.
 * jutnux apologises
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> :)
 * popey stabs his mac
 * AlanBell only has 8MBps download at the moment :(
<directhex> here's the thing
 * popey shakes fist at directhex 
<directhex> "micro$haft" or similar is immature
<directhex> what you want is for "microsoft" to be the dirty word
<directhex> as in "ew, someone left a microsoft in the loo"
<bigcalm> popey: who's fault is it you have a mac? ;)
<bigcalm> directhex: hah
<jutnux> popey: How long did OSX last on the Macbook?
<directhex> or, less facetiously, criticize them when they deserve criticism, praise them when they deserve praise. it's okay, a mix is allowed
<popey> jutnux: some time
<jutnux> My sister did get some free stuff off of them.
<awilkins> Visual Studio?
 * jutnux laughed
<jutnux> I don't actually know
<jutnux> but she met the creator of Brain Pop
<bigcalm> Brian? popey?
<awilkins> Not so implausible, I've been to MS events where they handed disks out like frisbees
<bigcalm> Oh, Brain
<directhex> i got a free mouse out of MS
<jutnux> How many disks did Canonical take to CES?
<bigcalm> New SSD might be here tomorrow. Excited!
<directhex> i use it for conference presentations
<jutnux> They're all gone already apparently.
<jutnux> http://i.imgur.com/VXKXe.jpg :'(
<popey> tl;dr
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Evolution isn't any great shakes either
<jutnux> popey: It's amazing. There's also another one about this 83 year old man and his wife who play Call of Duty and follow Reddit. True story.
<jutnux> Anyways, now off. Have a good evening (or what's left of it).
<gordonjcp> awilkins: yeah
<gordonjcp> awilkins: thunderbird is *incredibly* annoying though
<awilkins> Outlook is awesome fun though
<gordonjcp> "HEY, I USE TABS NOW BECAUSE TABS ARE MORE AWESOMER! LOOK, LET ME OPEN EVERYTHING YOU'VE SELECTED IN A TAB!"
<gordonjcp> no, bugger off
<jacobw> ha, open thread in tabs
<jacobw> that's fun
<gordonjcp> yah
<gordonjcp> and watch it *explode*
<gordonjcp> I really hope 12.04 ends up a bit lighter on memory
<gordonjcp> if not, I'll just have to ditch Ubuntu again, just as I was getting into it
<jacobw> unity-2d
<gordonjcp> if I need 2GB just to run the desktop with nothing open I may as well learn how to use Windows
 * jacobw doesn't find ubuntu to particulary RAM intensive
<gordonjcp> jacobw: this *is* unity-2d
<gordonjcp> jacobw: it's obviously only intended for fairly high-spec machines
<gordonjcp> this PC hasn't really got nearly a high enough spec
<jacobw> does anyone know how ecryptfs handles rewrapping the passphrase when a user passwd's ?
<bigcalm> My goodness, how long is sql server going to take to install?!
<hamitron> bigcalm, "a few mins longer"
<hamitron> ;)
<bigcalm> I'd like to go to bed sometime tonight
<bigcalm> Preferably with the computer shut down
<hamitron> I'm sure we all feel let down by your lack of late night dedication :D
<zleap> i am here,  but reading the reapberry pi forums,  and waiting for my password to arrive via e-mail :)
<hamitron> so many nice toys out
<hamitron> :/
<gordonjcp> I tried the unity checkbox but I couldn't get any of it to work
<gordonjcp> it was asking me to click on the "panel" then select the file menu
<gordonjcp> I don't really understand what it's asking me for
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> they are debating on how and what to teach in terms of programming language
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-13
<MartijnVdS> Hm
<MartijnVdS> I don't see much difference with "Unity 5"
<ali1234> jane silber thinks ubuntu has open governance and this will help it compete with android on tablets
<ali1234> if ubuntu had open governance unity wouldn't exist and competing with android wouldn't even be a goal
<ali1234> this is the same nonsense we heard from nokia about meego
<popey> morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> popey: you there ? :/
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers eats cold pizza for breakfast
<popey> czajkowski: yes
<daubers> So I'm down for the RAT thing, dates depending :)
 * MartijnVdS had chocolate cake for breakfast
<daubers> Enjoyed it last time
<MartijnVdS> daubers: RAT thing? Ng Industries? Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong? Snow Crash?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Real Ale Train
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Steam+beer
<MartijnVdS> Not quite cyberpunk then
<daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash#Rat_Things
<MartijnVdS> daubers: oooh!
<daubers> I see
<daubers> Dude! We could have a geeknic IN ONE OF THE CODEBREAKING HUTS AT BLETCHLEY!!!!!!
<popey> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/
<MartijnVdS> popey: shiney
<daubers> http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/visit/group.rhtm "Your Group can relax and dine in the area dedicated to them for the day, either in one of the iconic Codebreaking Huts"
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have Google's mapsgl enabled as well, but that's not quite spherical
<MartijnVdS> popey: Wow that page is FAST
<popey> yeah, and the detail is impressive
<MartijnVdS> (some) images are least least 3 years old though
<MartijnVdS> The new flats next to mine aren't finished on it :)
 * daubers wonders if his revised house offer will be accepted or not
<daubers> I suspect not...
<bigcalm> Haha, nice cloak
<gordonjcp> hahaha
<AdvoWork> cross post, but does anyone know in ubuntu 11.10, classic, how to add items to the Panel, I no longer get an option on right click?
<mattt> daubers: where bouts?
<daubers> mattt: Thatcham again
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning
<mattt> daubers: good luck with that!
<bigcalm> Silly ThunderBird - using N to move to the next unread email doesn't clear the notification bar icon
<gordonjcp> lots of things thunderbird doesn't do
<gordonjcp> doesn't remember the state of threaded vs. unthreaded view
<oimon> work for more than 24 hours since later versions :(
<popey> i have it open for days
<gordonjcp> it still has that horrible tabs thing
<popey> i never use the tabs
<gordonjcp> I can't find a way to get rid of them
<popey> well, i do if i want to remember to do something, i leave a mail open in a tab
<oimon> popey: mybe it's my profile. it literally breaks every single night since upgrading from v3
<gordonjcp> "oh you clicked on something, I'll open some random emailsin tabs"
<gordonjcp> it's just shit
<popey> it doesnt do that here
<popey> i open mails in the pane
<popey> only get tabs if I double click mails
<gordonjcp> it's actually a chore to use
<TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: Been using TB for years... Nothing major wrong with it IMHO. Try reporting bugs if you find any.
 * popey doesn't observe the behaviour gordonjcp does
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: they may not be bugs, it appears to be designed that way
<gordonjcp> if I'm on my desktop I just use mutt
<gordonjcp> why did Ubuntu switch away from Evolution anyway/
<gordonjcp> it's still crap but it's nowhere near as unpleasant to use as Thunderbird
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: do you have the preview pane turned on? press f8 if it isn't
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: yes, but it doesn't work properly
<oimon> evolution used to crash multiple times per day for me even with a clean profile
<oimon> i.e. not fit for purpose
<gordonjcp> oimon: much the same as thunderbird then
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: thunderbird is actually stable for me
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also it doesn't eat all my RAM
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: I hardly ever double click a mail to put it in a tab
<gordonjcp> ah, Unity eats all my ram to begin with
<oimon> gordonjcp: i reckon if i started afresh my TB would be OK...but i've got a lot of stored config in there
<gordonjcp> 2G of RAM, 2G of swap, both full
<popey> 11215 alan      20   0  912m 149m  39m S    0  1.9   1:42.55 thunderbird-bin
<popey> 11257 alan      20   0 1391m 612m  77m S    3  7.9  12:07.13 firefox
<popey> lolfox
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :D
<popey> YES!
<popey> Rally ends today
 * bigcalm sips his Darjeeling in happiness
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Darjeeling
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Experimenting With Email - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/13/experimenting-with-email/
<oimon> unity certainly causes the weirdos to wake up. look at the comments on this blog post http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/12/testing-required-unity-ppa/
<bigcalm> http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2491 # bwuhahahaha
 * daubers puts an urgent access request into the DC
<daubers> stupid load balancer
<bigcalm> Going to the big smoke on Wednesday next week
<bigcalm> Any tips for survival?
<MartijnVdS> gas mask?
<bigcalm> Not sure what message that would be putting across to the natives
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "Are you my mummy?"
<bigcalm> Oh my. What a great episode that was
<popey> heh
<popey> it was a double wasnt it?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it was
<bigcalm> You're right, it was
<MartijnVdS> First one with Captain Jack
 * daubers goes to reading
<MartijnVdS> reading or Reading
<oimon> http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/webgl/ fails on firefox and chrome on my machine :(
<MartijnVdS> Works in Chrome on mine
<MartijnVdS> oimon: which video driver do you use?
<bigcalm> Works for me in Chromium
<oimon> MartijnVdS: intel
<MartijnVdS> intel here too
<oimon> maybe i need to restart my browser
<oimon> and run updates
<oimon> hmm firefox 5???
<MartijnVdS> 5? not 9 or 10?
<oimon> thought i had a repo to update ff
<oimon> must have been when i stopped using ff
<oimon> which repo is the one for ff latest stable?
<AlanBell> the main repo :)
<oimon> in 10.04 LTS?
<oimon> not atm
<AlanBell> !info firefox natty
<lubotu3> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 9.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.11.04.1 (natty), package size 14946 kB, installed size 29780 kB
<oimon> !info firefox lucid
<lubotu3> firefox (source: firefox): safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.24+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 (lucid), package size 11153 kB, installed size 30064 kB
<AlanBell> !info firefox maverick
<lubotu3> firefox (source: firefox): safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 3.6.24+build2+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.10.1 (maverick), package size 11130 kB, installed size 30000 kB
<AlanBell> well there is the mozillateam ppa
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-stable
<AlanBell> Aimed at Lucid and Maverick users who want to use a modern browser which starts faster than you can brew your morning coffee
<oimon> ah cheers...i had a few to choose from but they didn't have v9...this one looks good
<oimon> i wonder why i disabled it a few months ago to replace with the ubuntu mozilla seucrity one
<MartijnVdS> do-release-upgrade disables PPAs as well
<oimon> debating whether to upgrade to 12.04 in a few months..i've enjoyed lucid on this work pc for 2 years
<oimon> however ubuntu one doesn't work properly and a few other issues
<oimon> need to choose a DE by then
<oimon> the good news is i'm on ff v9 ..the bad news is "Unfortunately, there's a WebGL compatibility problem.
<oimon> You may want to check your system settings."
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod how you doin'
<brobostigon> good morning veryone,
<davmor2> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<s-fox> Hello
<DJones> Morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hello DJones , how are you? :-)
<DJones> Not bad thanks, you ok?
<s-fox> Yes thank you, job hunting.
<s-fox> Spectacular failure lastnight. Was looking for a job in Paris...so I aplpied for one in san francisco
<davmor2> morning s-fox
<s-fox> Hey davmor2 , everything good your way?
<davmor2> s-fox: Yeah I'm good thanks
<s-fox> Terrific.
<davmor2> s-fox: You know that the tectonic plates moved so significantly apart that paris and San Francisco  aren't next door to each other right?
<s-fox> Yeah, I know davmor2. France France, San France, San Francisco
 * s-fox will stick with that logic flow ;-)
<s-fox> I was in san francisco last year for a few days. Wonderful place :-)
<mattt> s-fox: the weather there is spectactular
<s-fox> It sure is something
 * oimon has a minecraft question
<oimon> looking for a spare PC to give my nephew to run minecraft server for his mates. is a crappy CPU, with 4GB RAM better choice than better (but still quite slow CPU) and 2GB RAM?
<oimon> or neither?
<popey> how many people will play on it?
<popey> I have run a server for ~8 people on a 1.6GHz atom with 4GB RAM
<oimon> i reckon just his school mates so ~8
<oimon> it would be a p4 3.2ghz processor i think on the 2gb, but the 4gb box would have a sempron 1.8ghz which is afwul
<oimon> i assume minecraft server can be run headless on a server install?
<MartijnVdS> I think so
<Oli> oimon: Yeah - there's a juju charm that has it running headless on Amazon EC2
<Laney> who made it so cold?
<DJones> oimon: I looked at running a server, the biggest issue seems to be the broadband upload speed
<oimon> DJones: oh. even for low numbers?
<DJones> oimon: http://canihostaminecraftserver.com/ Have a look at that
<Oli> oimon: it's about 30KB/s (240kbps) per user.
<oimon> hey thats useful
<oimon> the bandwidth is more limitation than RAM
<DJones> Seems to need a 3M upload speed to host 9 players
<DJones> 3Mb
<bigcalm> VM then
<Oli> Yeah. I wish ISPs would start being a little more sensible about their upstreams. our 22:0.9 (mbps) is silly.
<bigcalm> Wonder what the upload speed will be once we're moved to 60mb down
<oimon> they want customers to be consumers, not producers :)
<Oli> oimon: if you're willing to pay a little bit of money, you can just host it on Amazon. Takes about a second to start a MC server with the juju charm.
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for 100/100
<MartijnVdS> 500/500*
<oimon> Oli: it's more for the lad to get his fngers dirty with linux on a home pc :)
<AlanBell> you can host a maximum of 180 players
<oimon> slight change of subject...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/microsoft-to-prevent-linux-booting-on-arm-hardware/ "Disabling SecureÂ boot MUST NOTÂ be possible onÂ ARMÂ systems.
<awilkins> I suppose they could justify that by claiming that ARM systems are likely to be embedded systems or phones, and that the carriers / media cartels made them do it...
<AlanBell> ARM systems won't run XP is probably more to the point
<awilkins> But really, that's begging for an antitrust action unless they add "MUST be able to import other signing keys into the BIOS from the UEFI interface"
<awilkins> The chilling effect of Secure Boot is still there - by default, systems will be shipping in a state that means you have to tinker in the BIOS to get them to boot a LiveCD
<awilkins> Which makes OSs other than Windows that much less accessible
<directhex> can someone explain why people are shitting their pants over Win8 ARM having a locked bootloader?
<directhex> 95% of ARM devices have locked bootloaders
<oimon> citation needed
<oimon> htc and asus reversed their policy
<directhex> ever heard of "iphone" or "ipad"? they're quite popular
<MartijnVdS> oimon: they reversed their policy, but lots of devices still have locked bootloaders
<oimon> it's not mandated by google though
<oimon> which MS are doing
<MartijnVdS> oimon: also, every ARM SOC is so different from other SOCs that it needs an entirely separate kernel build
<directhex> "reversed" their policy - unlocked bootloader cancels your warranty
<MartijnVdS> for some strange reason they can't make it like PCs (more uniform)
<directhex> so microsoft are essentially banning cyanogenmod on w8 tablets. it's not a freaking right.
<popey> 12:10:00 < oimon> it's not mandated by google though
<popey> yeah it is
<popey> thats exactly why oems lock their bootloaders, to get the google badge of goodness
<oimon> hmm..http://julianyap.com/2012/01/03/locked-bootloaders-in-android-devices-are-required-to-support-google-drm.html
<MartijnVdS> Again DRM
<MartijnVdS> Will canonical require bootloader-locking on Ubuntu tablets/TVs/etc.?
<directhex> it's fine when google does it. when microsoft does it OMG IT'S WORSE THAN HITLER
<popey> MartijnVdS: no idea
<LjL> it's not fine when google does it.
<LjL> it's not fine when anyone does it.
<directhex> LjL, you might think that, but that's not the way anyone reacts.
<directhex> LjL, when microsoft does it it's pure satanism. when anyone else does it, oh look kitten pics on reddit!
<LjL> well that's your impression, mine is different
<directhex> LjL, i'll note there's been no coverage of the windows 8 logo program requirement that x86/64 MUST have secure boot DISABLED (i.e. allow multiple oses)
<directhex> you can't get a windows 8 sticker on your x86 hardware unless it boots non-win8 oses
<LjL> of course, they fear antitrust on x86
<directhex> but nobody cares about that change, because it doesn't fit the narrative
<AlanBell> it is in the same article
<LjL> heh
<AlanBell> it is in the same paragraph of the certification guidelines
<directhex> AlanBell, sure. what did oimon quote, and what did everyone else respond to?
<directhex> and awilkins flat-out ignored it
<AlanBell> to be accurate for the logo it must support secure boot, and secure boot must be enabled, but a physically present user must be able to disable it
<directhex> everyone loves talking about "the chilling effects of secure boot" now. old debian cd doesn't work on uefi laptop? secure boot! every pc FOR DECADES has had hard disk first in boot order? secure boot!
<LjL> i think you're talking nonsense now.
<AlanBell> yeah, we should stop being inaccurate and misinformed
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Where's the fun in thast
<oimon> it is however good to raise awareness of these issues while policy is being formed
<oimon> rather than have to work around 2 years later because nobody piped up in the beginning
<AlanBell> which is why canonical and redhat are on the uefi steering group etc.
<awilkins> I was under the impression that to get a "Designed for Window 8" badge meant you had to have Secure Boot on by default... could you cite the document that states the opposite, directhex?
<AlanBell> not a whole heap we can influence by chattering on IRC about it
<directhex> know what's going to be a bigger problem? utterly broken UEFI implementations
<directhex> mjg59 is bricking several motherboards a week by following the spec
<AlanBell> this is true
<MartijnVdS> How is that unexpected though
<MartijnVdS> We've known firmware writers are shit at what they do for ages
<awilkins> directhex, The paragraph in the article states that it must be possible to disable it, which is very welcome, but says nothign about it's default state (aprt from implying that it must be secure boot == on because it insists that it must be possible to disable it)
<AlanBell> oh, don't make me tell you off for swearing people
<directhex> MartijnVdS, people will blame it on secure boot. they already *are* blaming it on secure boot
<directhex> because that's the narrative
<awilkins> My current mobo has EFI and I confess I found it unintuitive and annoying after decades of non-GUI BIOS interfaces
<awilkins> And it doesn't start up any faster than old BIOS, so what's the point?
<directhex> awilkins, how big is your hard disk?
<awilkins> directhex, 2TB
<MartijnVdS> Biggus Diskus
<oimon> looks like dell are out of 2TB drives...my saved quote is now invalid due to removal of 1tb and 2tb drives from the config options
<directhex> awilkins, know why bigger drives aren't common or popular?
<awilkins> directhex, Because old BIOS doesn't support them
<directhex> awilkins, so there's one part of your "what's the point"
<awilkins> directhex, But... is there a reason that old BIOS can't be changed to support them? Is it necessary to replace it wholesale with something new? (I don't know... but it's software, after all)
<LjL> yeah a few BIOS "barriers" have been removed in the past
<directhex> awilkins, "removed" is such a strong term
<directhex> awilkins, BIOS assumes MBR. MBR has the 2T limit
<AlanBell> moving forward is a good thing, EFI is a good thing, secure boot is a good feature (and potential market distorting problem)
<directhex> awilkins, BIOS has no interest in disks with other layout tables, and isn't sophisticated enough to do better
<awilkins> So could you make a BIOS that also does (GPT?)
<directhex> awilkins, as far as BIOS is concerned, you're on a 16-bit 186
<AlanBell> if you were to fix BIOS you would come up with EFI
<directhex> or openfirmware
<directhex> or anything that isn't BIOS
<directhex> BIOS is 100% tied into 186
<LjL> (what is even a 186)?
<awilkins> Heh, I'm so totally guilty, as a software developer, of the "This isn't very good, let's completely replace it with something better" thing
<awilkins> (although it's COMPLETELY TRUE of my current project, ahem)
<directhex> LjL, the precursor to 286 and 386
<LjL> The 80186 would have been a natural successor to the 8086 in personal computers. However, because its integrated hardware was incompatible with the hardware used in the original IBM PC, the 80286 was used as the successor instead in the IBM PC/AT.
<awilkins> There's an interesting snippet I didn't know "UEFI requires the firmware and operating system to be size-matched; i.e. a 64-bit UEFI implementation can only boot a 64-bit UEFI operating system."
<LjL> :|
<awilkins> So will 32-bit Windows die on standard hardware with Windows 8?
<LjL> i don't care about 32-bit Windows
<LjL> i care about a lot of nifty little OS's that are 32-bit only :(
<LjL> anyway maybe it's possible to chain a bootloader capable of loading 32-bit stuff?
<awilkins> Presumably UEFI can still boot the boring-old-normal way for 32-bit OS
<MartijnVdS> Time for a 64-bit FreeDOS
<awilkins> Just can't SecureBoot a 32-bit OS from a 64-bit UEFI ?
<LjL> yay, finally ia32-libs on Precise
<davmor2> LjL: Why do you need ia32-libs precise supports multiarch better that oneiric did
<LjL> davmor2: skype
<davmor2> LjL: yes so from the command line you do sudo apt-get install skype:i386 and no need for ia32-libs
<LjL> davmor2: from what repository? i got the skype package from skype.com
<davmor2> LjL: Partners off the top of my head
<LjL> not sure it's in Precise's partner yet
<LjL> anyway ia32-libs depends on ia32-libs-multiarch now
<LjL> so i'm guessing same difference
<davmor2> oh well
<gordonjcp> rhythmbox really isn't very good, is it?
<directhex> rhythmbox is super awesome! so i'm told
<gordonjcp> just about everything I've tried to play has resulted in a dialogue box popping up with some message about "Python needs additional plugins to play this content type" and a progress bar shuttling backwards and forwards
<gordonjcp> it does this for about ten seconds, closes the dialogue box, then just sits there
<oimon> i tried playing a dvd with vlc the other day and it kept stuttering :(
<oimon> had to use mplayer instead but didn't know the keys since it's a gui
<gordonjcp> well
<gordonjcp> it can't cope with SomaFM
<oimon> soma is AAC stream
<oimon> have you got gstreamer plugins good, bad and ugly?
<gordonjcp> oh, and if it can't play it, it deletes it from the list of streams
<gordonjcp> ah
<gordonjcp> ahem
<gordonjcp> if it can't play a *file* it deletes the file, too
<gordonjcp> so not only is rhythmbox not only an ineffective music player, it's actually a pretty nasty piece of malware
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wut? that sounds like a horrible bug
<gordonjcp> yeah, I'm not sure how I triggered that
<gordonjcp> it's not doing it now
<gordonjcp> but it *was* doing it because it's deleted a couple of albums of MP3s
<AlanBell> http://old.nabble.com/Rhythmbox-quietely-deletes-files-td33064922.html
<AlanBell> in the unity launcher it shows little arrows to the left of the icon to indicate if you have several windows open, but it only does a maximum of three. I found out today that this is by design and not a bug. One, Two, Lots.
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: ugh
<gordonjcp> it just gets worse and worse
<AlanBell> I can see the problem with an unending number of little arrows
<bigcalm> A number of 2 or more would work
<MartijnVdS> sure but why not mark the 3rd one in a special colour (for example) if it means ">3" instead of "#"
<MartijnVdS> 3
<AlanBell> yeah, I have 17 terminal windows open it seems, and 3 little arrows.
<AlanBell> 17 little arrows would not be ideal
<MartijnVdS> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"
<MartijnVdS> </design-team>
 * daubers doesn't really see the problem....
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: wtf
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm assuming here
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I usually have five or six terminal windows open at any time
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: so are we to assume that Ubuntu 12.10 is going to just be capable of running one app at a time, like Mac System 6
<awilkins> I don't either ; TBH I would be fine with 1 arrow for one and two for many
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yes!
<gordonjcp> since they seem to be really keen to pull in all the other misfeatures of early Mac OS
<awilkins> You're going to have to choose anyway, the choosing part of the UI will show you how many you have
<awilkins> You double click, and it shows you scaled thumbnails of all of that kind of app anyway
<AlanBell> what I would like is to right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get in the quicklist all 17 window titles to choose from
<oimon> "But if you have >3 windows of an app you're using the computer wrong"^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Husing gimp
<awilkins> AlanBell, That would be nice - also in GNOME 2 I always wanted it to be like Windows - each entry in the list being a proper Window menu in itself
<awilkins> So you could right click, and then right click AGAIN on the app window to close, maximise, etc
<awilkins> Or do operations on all of them
<oimon> my window list is a row of dots.
<oimon> even on a 1920 wide pixel monitor
<gordonjcp> awilkins: in Gnome 2 by default it "stacked" window buttons in the taskbar if there was more than <some number> of them
<gordonjcp> I *hated* that feature
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Whereas I configured it to do it all the time, even if it was just 2 windows
<gordonjcp> particularly since every update seemed to turn it back on
 * daubers still doesn't see the problem
 * daubers must be doing it wrong
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Different strokes, I can see how some people dislike that
<awilkins> My biggest complaint about Unity (and probably GNOME in general) is the "one size fits all" philosophy, coupled with the inability to reconfigure it
<daubers> awilkins: That's changing
<awilkins> The removal of all but the most simple configuration utilities from Oneiric really peeved me
<gordonjcp> gnome and unity are both irrelevant now
<gordonjcp> they're so far removed from what any sane person would call usable
<gordonjcp> can you imagine trying to explain Unity to a non-technical person?
<awilkins> My grey-haired old mum seemed to be alright
<awilkins> I suppose she was a legal secretary for most of her career and thus actually used computers though
<awilkins> Now I wonder what she would have made of Vim...
<awilkins> Would probably have liked it, in the long run
<gordonjcp> awilkins: well my mum has been using computers for quite a while now
<daubers> gordonjcp: My mum prefers unity to old gnome
<gordonjcp> awilkins: she wants rid of Ubuntu on her desktop because Unity is just to horrible to use
<daubers> she found old gnome confusing
<awilkins> So ; we've proven that you can find an anecdote to support lots of positions
<gordonjcp> doesn't really get us anywhere, does it?
<daubers> Canonicals user testing seemed to suggest that "average" users prefered something of the unity style
<awilkins> The advantage of course being that this isn't Windows so we can choose the shell we like the most ; the disadvantage being that this splinters the effort directed to making each one better
<gordonjcp> what I particularly find annoying is pulseaudio
<gordonjcp> it's an unmitigated disaster
<gordonjcp> I never, ever want sound to come out of the internal speaker on my PC
<daubers> meh, I've not had any problems with pulse for ages, even had it playing stuff across networks happily recently
<gordonjcp> I never, ever want more than one app to play sound at once
<awilkins> gordonjcp, I would think you are in a distinct minority there
<gordonjcp> awilkins: what, I want sound to play on my external speakers?
<gordonjcp> if it would even let me play through the line out socket that would do
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Only wanting one app to have sound
<gordonjcp> <shrug>
<gordonjcp> *anyone* who uses a PC for playing back music?
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Most people will e.g. want to listen to music AND be able to hear IM alerts
<gordonjcp> right, maybe
<gordonjcp> but it would be nice to have the option to shut all of the stupid beeps and bongs up
<oimon> talking of beeps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hs5ChcYbaNU
<gordonjcp> also, pulse makes it damn near impossible to use jack
<oimon> made me lol today
<MartijnVdS> who needs jack anyway
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: anyone using a computer for music
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Do per-application mutes persist across app instances in Pulse (as configured by the sound preferences) ?
<gordonjcp> awilkins: no idea
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I play music all the time, never needed jack
 * awilkins tries that
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: you're presumably not recording music
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I am not.
<acperkins> in my Mandrake 7 days I remember listening to music for a couple of hours, and when it finished playing I closed the player and got 200-odd IM alert noises
<oimon> acperkins: yeah lol
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu used to be really popular for running music software
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: now it's pretty much impossible
<oimon> acperkins: i gather it was related to Alsa and OSS
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: so fix jack/pulse to talk to each other?
<gordonjcp> why?
<gordonjcp> pulse takes over the soundcard
<MartijnVdS> which is good, usually
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: unless you want to use it
<acperkins> oimon: I guess so now, both using OSS and it was just queueing the sounds. I was a newbie then and completely inexperienced, my fix was to turn of IM sounds.
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I can use it fine with pulse
<gordonjcp>  MartijnVdS I guess you could have pulse just present as a jack source that you could then route
<oimon> acperkins: i got it on fedora at the time too
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: video conferencing too.. great with pulse!
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Ok, so application-specific mixer levels do persist across instances - but you can only see the application in the preferences while it's playing
<oimon> does everyone seem in a bit of bad mood today?
<gordonjcp> awilkins: I also can't choose which sound device to play through, though
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm not interested in video conferencing, though
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm interested in sound, and pulseaudio stops me from using sound
<awilkins> gordonjcp, I don't seem to have a major problem with that (minor problem was that it "slipped" to my HDMI device which I have nothing plugged into)
<gordonjcp> awilkins: okay, how do you do it?
 * brobostigon is a in a bad mood because he is ill,
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Sound preferences, "OUtput" tab, "Choose a device for sound output:", click on a device
<gordonjcp> awilkins: yup, I've selected my USB external codec
<gordonjcp> it's *still* playing all sounds through the internal speaker
<oimon> brobostigon: i'm grouchy cos i have nasty cold too. off sick for a few days but have gone back to work cos i feel bad about it
<awilkins> Sounds like a bug, rather than a lack of feature.. I feel your pain, I had to fix a kernel bug to get the audio on my previous motherboard working properly
 * daubers digs out his laptop and finds some music to hack along too
<brobostigon> oimon: ah, not good, ok.
<gordonjcp> awilkins: works perfectly in 11.10, and it works in other distros
<oimon> i've had more viruses than a windows pc this christmas
<gordonjcp> awilkins: the device itself is supported; something in 12.04 just isn't happy with it
<oimon> all caught via my son
<gordonjcp> awilkins: aplay -l even shows it up
<gordonjcp> so it's actually *there*
<awilkins> gordonjcp, I presume you've submitted a bug - being an alpha release still in development you might even get it fixed before April
<brobostigon> oimon: i have had bad infection since before christmas, my eczema has had bad infection also, and it is still persisting, even after seeing my doctor twice, and various anti-biotics etc.
<Myrtti> When is the last time you've descaled your kettle? use store bought descaler, or just vinegar. I just saw this and screamed. https://s3.amazonaws.com/wildfire_production/media_files/3193098/where_kettles_come_to_die.jpg
<gordonjcp> awilkins: I'll try again in an hour or so with a clean install
<Myrtti> that kettle has needed effort to turn like that
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: I've never descaled a kettle
<awilkins> gordonjcp, But I know where you are coming from ; I put up with a workaround of "switch the mic off and on again" for three releases until it finally broke properly in Natty
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: I do it occasionally even in Finland where the water is usually soft
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: strange
<oimon> Myrtti: what's the prob with the pic?
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: pretty much everywhere in Scotland has soft water
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: oddly enough, apart from the south of Skye
<gordonjcp> awilkins: unplugged and reconnected the codec, *now* it detects it
<awilkins> gordonjcp, Which actually spurred me on to fix it, which involved patching kernels. Which I appreciate is not for everyone (and about at the limit of my skill, even for the tiny one-liner that needed fixing)
<oimon> looks like my kettle
<awilkins> gordonjcp, HAving a look in /var/log/kern.log and seeing what messages occur when it's plugged might be illuminating - it may well be that it just doesn't initialize properly in Pulse
<gordonjcp> awilkins: could be
<Myrtti> oimon: hurrrrrrr
<gordonjcp> not Ubuntu-related, but worth a read:
<gordonjcp> http://www.edn.com/article/520531-Toyota_accelerations_revisited_hanging_by_a_tin_whisker.php
<oimon> scale doesn't kill you. it kills kettles, but kettles die every few years anyway
<gordonjcp> this is why we don't use lead-free solder, mmmkay?
<gordonjcp> 90% of my repairs these days are due to failed solder joints
<Myrtti> oimon: I'm still using a kettle bought in 2001
<oimon> i live in london , where the water virtually stands up by itself, but if you don't let water stand in the kettle overnight etc, generally they are ok
 * daubers cleaned his kettle for the first time in 12 months the other day
<daubers> brita filters ftw \o/
<oimon> they don't recommend you put vinegar etc in kettle nowadays, dunno why
<awilkins> I wonder if the more modern flatplate element kettles have better longevity
<gordonjcp> make your tea taste funny
<oimon> my kettle has a few stalacmites but it's ok
<awilkins> If I moved back down South, I'd be using a Brita anyway
<awilkins> I'm used to tea made from soft water now, hardwater tea is gross
<oimon> we don't drink tea so it's only used to heat water quickly for rice/spag etc
<awilkins> Boil vinegar and make sushi rice :-)
<christel> i have one of those metal tumbleweed thingies in my kettle
<christel> it claims to battle limescale
<christel> and every now and again i descale it using that weird foamy stuff
<christel> tho, it has yet to develop any visible limescale so i never see the difference when using it
<shauno> I'm a traditionalist; stick to beer because I can't trust the water
<christel> haha
<oimon> mountain spring water runs through limestone caves...same thing innit?
<oimon> just need a mesh to catch the floaty bits
<oimon> is a WD or seagate 2TB drive preferred nowadays?
<daubers> oimon: Depends what you can lay your hands on
<oimon> both are in stock daubers
<daubers> oimon: This for a desktop or a server?
<oimon> desktop PC SATA
<daubers> Ah, all desktop drivse are pants
<oimon> it will use SSD for the OS
<daubers> seagate are probably a bit better than WD at the moment
<awilkins> I've been running Seagate / Samsung ones for as long as I can remember
<oimon> the 2tb is purely for data
<awilkins> The 2.5" samsungs fail a lot when you knock 'em about
<oimon> i thought maxtor were assimilated by seagate.
<oimon> maxtor suck
<awilkins> So now I use an SSD for portable external drive
<oimon> hey this is a 5400rpm drive...stuff that
<awilkins> I have a 5400rpm as my main system drive now
<awilkins> It's not noticably any slower than the 500MB 7600 rpm one it replaced
<oimon> upon replacing the 5400 with a 7200 i noticed massive boost
<oimon> unforutanely don't have the bootchart logs to prove
<Laney> I heard it's mgdm's birthday today!
<mgdm> t'is
<awilkins> What you need is something that just streams blocks of libraries that are loaded together into big cache files - does preload do that?
<awilkins> Ah, it does it in RAM
<daubers> So who's finished implimenting Cake over IP?
<awilkins> Unfortunately it only works over the local loopback adapter
 * awilkins scronff
<christel> raar
<christel> er, wrong window
<Laney> ROAR
<daubers> meow?
<christel> A LION AND A CAT
 * davmor2 tiptoes up behind christel and shouts BOO!
 * christel falls off her chair
<christel> ow
 * davmor2 points  out that christel is 2/3's of the way to a C.S.Lewis book I mean where there's a cat there's a witch right
<christel> very true
<Myrtti> christel: I prefer my steaks medium, thanks
<christel> aww
<oimon> is there a name for the rule that says if you add cordial to water already in the cup rather than vice versa, you need more than twice as much. even if you stir it
<davmor2> But Myrtti all the good chefs leave it mooing on the plate still
<directhex> oimon, 5400rpm and 5900rpm is common these days for large drives. "green" disk drives are all the rage
<awilkins> They're quiet too
<oimon> but slow,
<oimon> directhex: by large, you mean 1tb 2tb?
<oimon> i am comparing performance with my sub 1tb laptop drive ..so maybe different with large 3.5 drives as you say
<directhex> oimon, 3.5" 5900rpm drives are fast. massive caches help.
<oimon> good to know. why does 5900 sound like a weird number to me
<awilkins> The drives with greater areal density get faster too, even when the spinny slows down
<oimon> directhex: any you recommend specifically?
<awilkins> So I dare say a 7900 TB drive is faster than a 5400 one, but I can see how a 5400 2TB drive might be faster than a 7900 1TB one
<directhex> oimon, traditionally i've bought samsung, but they got swallowed by seagate
<directhex> your choices nowadays are seagate, wd, or leftover drives manufactured by companies that are now seagate or wd
<directhex> i'd avoid the wd green series, they have nasty firmware bugs
<directhex> so seagate, i guess
<awilkins> That headparking thing?
<awilkins> Yeah, never like the sound of that bug
<bigcalm> directhex: able to give a tiny bit sql server help?
<directhex> bigcalm, i've never used that crap in my life
<bigcalm> Or anybody else that has to dabble in such dark arts
<bigcalm> Oh well
<directhex> people assume i'm some kind of microsoft expert Â¬_Â¬
<bigcalm> directhex: you love the ms
<CaMason> what's the safest way to adjust network settings on ubuntu server?
<CaMason> worried about locking myself out when changing interfaces into bridged mode
<bigcalm> network manager
<CaMason> on ubuntu server?
<bigcalm> Be at the machine to change things :)
<daubers> CaMason: do it on the cli with brctl and ifconfig first, if it fails, get remote hands to reboot :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can pick on alex in #wolveslug he might be able to point you in the right direction :D
<directhex> CaMason, fortunately, changing to bridged mode is pretty safe. i just edit /etc/networking/interfaces and reboot
<daubers> or test it with all except the port you're sshing into first, then add that port when you're happy the rest work
<directhex> i mean, what, you just change "eth0" to "br0" in the file, and add "bridge_ports eth0" "bridge_stp off"
<bigcalm> davmor2: maybe, I'll google a little more 1st :)
<CaMason> ok thanks
<oimon> if it's not a production server you could set an 'at' job to reboot in 5 minutes
<bigcalm> davmor2: found what I needed, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188670.aspx
<oimon> used to do that on cisco routers when making changes: "reload in 10"
 * awilkins may have touched SQL Server about 8 years ago
<davmor2> bigcalm: congrats :)
<awilkins> bigcalm, Ooh, I remember that
<awilkins> bigcalm, Scan Computers used to run their webshop under the "sa" account
<awilkins> They also had terrible parameter sanitization and built SQL by catting strings
<awilkins> They may have fixed it since then
<gordonjcp> I can't tell if banshee is misbehaving, or if this is particularly glitchy IDM
<MartijnVdS> glitchcore?
<zleap> hi
<CaMason> extras.ubuntu.com timing out for anyone else?
<acperkins> CaMason: getting the same here
<popey> yes
<CaMason> :(
<popey> mentioned to IS
<CaMason> thanks
<daubers> banshee in precise is a _vast_ amount more stable and performant than in Oneiric
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I think it's got more to do with having 900K free
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 640k should be enough
<daubers> must be time for a cuppa
<MartijnVdS> daubers: a 3d one? :)
<daubers> also, my touch typing is rubbish compared to how it used to be a few years ago :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_teapot
<daubers> Need to get a das keyboard with no key labels on it
<MartijnVdS> daubers: every time I read "das keyboard" I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DtM7BuCuEV0#t=17s
<daubers> i see....
<directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5P7RsC9TI
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Bill Bailey!
<MartijnVdS> hr
<MartijnVdS> directhex:
<jutnux> Afternoon all.
<Myrtti> gord: someone should rerender big buck bunny to 3D :-P
<MartijnVdS> Headache-o-rama
<Myrtti> (if it hasn't already)
<directhex> http://www.3dtv.com/UI/ViewMedia.aspx?MediaID=2928
<directhex> it's also on youtube 3d
<ikonia> directhex: can I send you a quick pm ?
<ikonia> (please) excuse my manners there
<directhex> ikonia, yes
 * daubers offers around the choccy digestives
<MartijnVdS> popey: that pronunciation guide channel is.. WEIRD
<MartijnVdS> popey: brilliant, but WEIRD
<bigcalm> Brighten your afternoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1GZZTV66M8
<Azelphur> bigcalm: I've been listening to these guys recently, they do have proper instruments though :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbu4jP9JPRY
<Myrtti> gord: I'm having a slow moment, how do I actually watch the video? I need to copy it into DCIM and use the camera app?
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<knightwise> hey guys
<dewar_> hello
<dewar_> has anyone had problems with muon crasht?
<awilkins> Ok - deb packaging GUIs ?
<awilkins> I've tried building deb packages before and the only time I've had success is just applying patches to existing deb sources
<awilkins> Even if the thing offends lintian horribly, I can fix problems - I just can't seem to get it working in the first place
<directhex> my fosdem talk is about debian packaging from scratch
<directhex> thing about packaging guis is they're made by people who don't know how packaging works - as a result the output quality is beyond terrible
<awilkins> Presumably, they try to create the GUI because they tried to learn and found it to be a PITA :-)
<awilkins> Am now looking at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes trying to see if this will help
<awilkins> Link to your fosdem talk and I promise to try not to make broken packages
<Myrtti> well, one thing is for certain
<Myrtti> Brian Cox doesn't use Ubuntu
<Myrtti> https://twitter.com/#!/giagia/status/157892188943032320
<awilkins> Why, because he's got a million, million, million [....] million other things to do?
<Myrtti> :-P
<awilkins> But his wife is a total hottie though.
<awilkins> Gah, foiled.
<awilkins> Bazaar recipes for Launchpad need there to be a debian folder already
<awilkins> BUT! It does seem a lot easier to patch a tree that way if there's a branch for it already there
<awilkins> AWesomes
<awilkins> A shame the thing I want to package isn't already packaged
 * awilkins starts with http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/first.en.html#workflow
<awilkins> Ok, I want to package kyoto cabinet... I could presumably do worse than copying the packaging for it's sibling tokyo cabinet
<awilkins> But it's in multiple packages
<jutnux> First time packaging awilkins?
<awilkins> jutnux, Not the first time I've *tried*
<awilkins> jutnux, I think the only success I've had is patching existing debian packages
<jutnux> Oh right
<awilkins> For example ; how to make multiple packages from one source ball - dividing it into libraries and utilities
<jutnux> I must try that one day
<awilkins> I find myself craving an Eclipse plugin to help with it...
<directhex> awilkins: how? by specifying multiple Package: sections in debian/control, and ensuring that you have valid debian/foo.install and debian/bar.install files listing which pieces of debian/tmp/usr/lib/blabla to include in each package
<awilkins> This blog seems to help : http://www.cs.rug.nl/~jurjen/ApprenticesNotes/ch20s06.html
<Laney> you typically tell the build system to install in debian/tmp/... and then make .install files to move files from there into packages
<Laney> but â #ubuntu-motu
<dogmatic69> o/
<dogmatic69> I got an arduino sending serial data to the pc, is there a way to catch it in terminal and redirect it to a file?
<mattt> erro
<gord> Myrtti, yeah and you have to name it like the other 3ds videos are named in that directory
<Myrtti> alright, thanks for that
<Myrtti> didn't know that
<gord> Myrtti, if its longer than 10 minutes it won't show up either, took me forever to figure that out...
<Myrtti> yeah I already added stuff to the script you posted
<Bassetts> ping Daviey can you contact me ASAP please
<czajkowski> Bassetts: email might be better
<Bassetts> czajkowski: done, I have contacted him every way I can
<Laney> I suspect there might be fun events taking place in Budapest
<czajkowski> well he's been busy I'm sure with work and tis the weekend
<czajkowski> Laney: indeed
<Laney> czajkowski: ow do?
<czajkowski> Laney: not bad now thanks, mum was over for the day so did a bit of walking around and eating and relaxing
<czajkowski> Laney: hows things with you? been busy ?
<Laney> getting back into it
<czajkowski> did manage to report a bug yesterday that is a bit of a pita - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 915271 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "package libreoffice-core 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: rmdir: failed to remove `usr/lib/libreoffice/basis3.4/program/': Directory not empty" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> oh yes, that one
<czajkowski> I was well impressed was me that reported it
<czajkowski> my contributions
<czajkowski> now I need to figure out how to report my other irritation
<czajkowski> I'm powering off my laptop - I know I am
<czajkowski> but when I go to power it on the next day - flat battery
<czajkowski> it's like it resumes
<czajkowski> rather irritating
<Laney> that would be annoying
<czajkowski> not sure what I file it against though
<Laney> probably start with kernel
<Laney> wouldn't really know how to triage that though :(
<czajkowski> lastone i filed there has yet to be triaged
<Laney> Bassetts: ow do? looking forward to exams?
<czajkowski> hate logging kernel bugs
<czajkowski> Laney: heading to FOSDEM ?
<Laney> nah too poor for that
<Bassetts> Laney: not great, and big no
<Laney> 4th year = no pay
 * Laney snuggles el Bassetts 
<czajkowski> <--- sleep
<Laney> nn
<czajkowski> nn
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-14
<KrimZon> *vertigo grin*
<Azelphur> http://redux.com/f/1177077/Programmer-Husband is it just me or should this be 7 loaves of bread, not 6.
<Timecop> is thare a link show me how setup VPM server for wifi connect ?
<MooDoo> morning all
<Timecop> hello MooDoo
<MooDoo> hi Timecop, how are you, but you knew i was already going to say that didn't you ;)
<AlanBell> morning people o/
<MooDoo> morning
<mattt> yoez
<dwatkins> hiya
<mattt> anyone off to one of the london irish games today?
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mattt> howzit MartijnVdS
<czajkowski> Aloha
 * MartijnVdS is playing with photos
 * jutnux pokes MartijnVdS
<jutnux> Howdy people
<MartijnVdS> apparently there's a driver for the Selphy printer line
<MartijnVdS> (photo printers)
<MooDoo> hello MartijnVdS czajkowski jutnux
<jutnux> Hiho.
<MartijnVdS> I'm actually quite impressed with the print quality of this thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi all, what IP do you get if you ping www.canoncopiers.biz ?
<MartijnVdS> www.canoncopiers.biz has address 176.9.228.203
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
<MartijnVdS> www.canoncopiers.biz.	21579	IN	A	176.9.228.203
<TheOpenSourcerer> Great. <sarcasm>glad our customer told us he was going to move his dns records this weekend</sarcasm>
<MartijnVdS> 21579 looks like a great TTL for a host that's going to be updated
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is the new host.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a *really* old website - we have moved from a shared host to a dedicated VM.
<TheOpenSourcerer> for our own protection.
<TheOpenSourcerer> They are talking too long to decide if they want to update it or not.
<MartijnVdS> "It's not broken yet is it? Then why risk it?"
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No patches or security updates since 2008 :-(
<MartijnVdS> :'(
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've now stuck it on it's own 8.04 LTS server.
<MartijnVdS> so they have another year or so to decide
<TheOpenSourcerer> At least it is now reasonably isolated.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<czajkowski> hmm my date/time is gone from the bar on top
<czajkowski> most annoying
<MartijnVdS> irssi shows the time, but I agree it should be in the top bar
<MartijnVdS> must be a bug
<czajkowski> yeah I've irris but i always look at date/time up beide the the wifi icon
<czajkowski> very odd it missing
<czajkowski> gord: what did you break!!!!
<gord> czajkowski, unity? sounds like your missing the date time indicator
<gord> apt-cache policy indicator-datetime
<czajkowski> gord: indeed where is it gone or is there a bug filled
<czajkowski> I'd like it back please
<gord> czajkowski, if its just that your missing the package, sounds like a packaging thing, something conflicted and it got removed without you noticing. just have to reinstall
<czajkowski> *mutters*
<czajkowski> so apt-get install indicator-datetime ?
<gord> should be
<gord> then relogin
<MartijnVdS> gord: hm, it was missing here as well -- upgrade to unity 5 broke it I guess
<gord> crazy people using ppa's ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: certified ;)
<czajkowski> Package indicator-datetime is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<czajkowski> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
<czajkowski> is only available from another source
<czajkowski> However the following packages replace it: indicator-datetime-gtk2:i386 indicator-datetime-gtk2
<czajkowski> E: Package 'indicator-datetime' has no installation candidaI'm not using a PPA
<czajkowski> grr
<gord> czajkowski, precice then?
<czajkowski> gord: yup
<czajkowski> it was there yesterday
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/915271  then I had to do some spring cleaning due to that annoying bug
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 915271 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "package libreoffice-core 1:3.4.4-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: rmdir: failed to remove `usr/lib/libreoffice/basis3.4/program/': Directory not empty" [Undecided,New]
<danfish> afternoon
<danfish> not long until the millionth bug
<danfish> I reckon popey will file it!
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish
<danfish> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<danfish> it's really rather nice out today
<brobostigon> agreed, it looks sunny and cold.
<danfish> a day for walks and pubs - so why am I inside?
 * brobostigon is inside, because he is ill.
<danfish> :(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> agreed.
<MartijnVdS> In the rapper/street sense of the word, or the bad sense of it?
<brobostigon> danfish: fluclox and aciclovir time again.
<danfish> brobostigon: "the usual"
<MartijnVdS> Antivirals? Yikes.
<brobostigon> danfish: more or less, yes.
<danfish> MartijnVdS: you are so down wiv da kidz
<Neoti> Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: agreed, yes. but neccessery.
<brobostigon> in theory it shouls stabilise out fairly quickly, and then improve from there.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if the doctor who prescribed those is called 'Norton' or 'McAfee'... :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, no.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: maybe he's a pirate? (Avast!)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my dermatologist is called venning,
 * acperkins wonders how many Dr Watsons there are
<MartijnVdS> "Venning". That's what it's called when you're making the diagrams
<danfish> there's a urologist locally called John Dick
<danfish> I kid you not
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: either i am not following or something isnt making sense, i simply am not understanding what you are getting at.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Venn diagrams :) Just making fun of names really
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: oh, i see, ok.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: trying to help you with humour! ;)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i totally missed it, sorry. thank you.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: You're probably used to the somewhat higher standards of British humour.. ;)
 * danfish searches the gmc register for watsons for acperkins and crashes the site :/
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and I'm only Dutch
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am just no good at humour, really.
<MartijnVdS> danfish: doctor watson?
<danfish> acperkins: 419 registered Dr Watsons in the UK
<MartijnVdS> danfish: no Doc Ock?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: have a look here - www.gmc-uk.org
 * brobostigon should probebly try and have something to eat, even if he doesnt feel like it.
<gordonjcp> danfish: when I worked at IBM, there was a Mal Reynolds and a Simon Tam in Bluepages...
<danfish> gordonjcp: heh
<gordonjcp> also, 20-odd years ago when my mum went in for thyroid surgery, her ENT specialist was called Dr Crippen...
<MartijnVdS> there's an aviation expert (who gets interviewed on TV when some kind of air crash happens) called "Baksteen" ("brick")
<gordonjcp> heh
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism :)
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: there's an EDS specialist named Dr. Tinkle. We keep saying he should be a urologist
<Pendulum> (well, in the UK he'd probably be Prof Tinkle, but still)
 * brobostigon returns with toast,
<penguin42> toast is good
<brobostigon> yes, just plain toast, alittle margerine, easy on my tummy,
<Myrtti> TOASSSTTTT
<Myrtti> nomnomnom
<penguin42> hmm, time for breakfast then :-)
<DJones> Afternoon all
<MooDoo> howdy
<DJones> Hi MooDoo
<jutnux> Afternoon all.
<mfraz74> good afternoon
<MooDoo> howdy
<Neoti> Hi All, im looking for work, PHP,MySQL, Asterisk, Hardware etc... in the nottingham area anyone know of anything ?
<Laney> try the NLUG mailing list
<Laney> p.s. more Nottingham people in here - yay
<Neoti> Hey Laney
<Neoti> guess ur from notts too
<Laney> oh yes
<Neoti> cool bean ... what area
<Laney> live in beeston
<Neoti> ah just down road...
<Laney> yeah?
<Neoti> yep .
<Laney> let me guess... long eaton
<Neoti> nope
<Laney> :(
<ali1234> popey: regarding screencasting, how do you switch between nouveau and nvidia with a minimum of fuss?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: jockey-gtk?
<ali1234> i said a minimum of fuss not a maximum
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: jockey-text?
<ali1234> jockey eats my xorg.conf every time i try to use it
<ali1234> basically, it's garbage
<MartijnVdS> you have to reboot, because the nvidia kernel module can't be unloaded
<MartijnVdS> also, you probably need to deinstall the package containing it, or it'll be autoloaded
<ali1234> great. that has nothing to do with jockey
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's dpkg or apt, yes
<ali1234> also, jockey doesn't have nouveau as an option, just several different binary drivers
<MartijnVdS> it has on/off as options for the binary driver(s) afaik?
<ali1234> also, you don't need to remove the nvidia kernel binary to use nouveau
<MartijnVdS> turn off all binary drivers -> nouveau!
<ali1234> because if nothing uses it, it doesn't do anything
<ali1234> so what i'm actually going to do is backup xorg.conf, delete it, then reboot
<MartijnVdS> good luck
<ali1234> why does it always end up with a frozen machine every time i try to use nouveau?
<ali1234> oh well, i managed to record my screencasts
<daubers> Afternoon
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to batch print PDF documents in Ubuntu ?
<kaushal> For example in TB client
<kaushal> I have an option lpr *.pdf
<kaushal> but any better way to do it ?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/916542
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 916542 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity spread "randomly" shuffles overlapping windows" [Undecided,New]
<jutnux> Surely they're just arranging in the last opened order?
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> if that were true, then why do the windows that i don't select also shuffle around?
<jutnux> Because you have selected them before so they re-arrange?
<ali1234> that doesn't make any sense
<jutnux> I can't express what I mean properly.
<ali1234> the windows were opened in order 1 to 9
<ali1234> look at the spread arrangement after i make them over lap the very first time
<jutnux> Oh yes
<jutnux> So I see
<ali1234> i arrange them all in order as well
<ali1234> then first time clicking spread i get order: 1 2 8 4 3 7 6 5 9
<ali1234> it's obviously not truely random
<ali1234> it just doesn't make any sense and is impossible to predict
<ali1234> hence "random"
<ali1234> when you combine that random shuffling with a bunch of windows that all look the same, such as these: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/crZSFsw3MXM
<ali1234> the result is exceptionally irritating
 * jutnux looks
<jutnux> Ah yes.
<jutnux> I thought you didn't use Unity ali1234?
<ali1234> i've used it every day since natty beta was released
<ali1234> i still hate it
<ali1234> but i hate it slightly less than KDE or gnome shell
<jutnux> I've actually started to like Gnome SHell
<jutnux> Shell
<jutnux> I'll probably hate it soon.
<jutnux> ali1234: have you tried xfce?
<ali1234> gnome shell has all the same flaws an unity, plus it doesn't support multimonitor
<ali1234> xfce doesn't support DPI properly, or indicators, or notifications
<jutnux> ali1234: Multi monitor is working fine for me on Gnome Shell.
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm curious about the DPI comment; I suspect that's more general across multiple desktops these days - I think that might be changeable in the X server config
<jutnux> penguin42: I was able to change the DPI in XFCE, I think.
<penguin42> ali1234: One of the problems is that a global DPI for all monitors in a X desktop is silly since they aren't all the same
<ali1234> penguin42: it has nothing to do with monitors
<ali1234> penguin42: under gnome or unity or kde, firefox fonts are the same size as fonts on the panels for example
<ali1234> under xfce, they are not
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I see, hmm ok, that's fair
<ali1234> in fact, under xfce, it is impossible to make xfce panels have the same sized fonts as, well, every other piece of software ever made
<ali1234> you can have them either slightly smaller, or slightly larger
<ali1234> even if you go to decimal point sizes you can't do it
<penguin42> ali1234: I assume you've filed a bug on it?
<ali1234> this used to be a problem in KDE as well but they've more or less fixed it now
<ali1234> penguin42: i wouldn't know what to file it against
<ali1234> and given that xfce only has about 3 developers and hasn;t changed at all since 5 years ago, it didn't seem like a worthwhile use of my time
<penguin42> ali1234: xfce4-panel ?
<ali1234> it's not just xfce-panel
<ali1234> its xfce-everything
<ali1234> panel, control panels, thunar
<ali1234> the lot
<penguin42> ali1234: It's best to file it on a vgauely right package rather than not file it at all
<penguin42> ali1234: libxfce4ui-1-0 or the like?
<ali1234> i only tried XFCE for about half an hour just to humour the people who constantly suggest it
<ali1234> honestly it is significantly worse than gnome 2 was
<ali1234> it's like gnome 2 copied by people who have no idea what they are doing
<Azelphur> I use XFCE on multi monitor and it seems fine
<Azelphur> Admittedly I swapped out half the DE though
<jutnux> As much as I liked Gnome 2 I do think it needs to move on.
<ali1234> and jutnux: gnome-shell doesn't have multiple monitor support by design
<ali1234> any monitor after the first does not participate in window switching
<ali1234> which is absolutely useless
<Azelphur> I use compiz so I assume that doesn't affect me
<penguin42> ali1234: I sympathise with the choice of using the desktop you hate least - it's not a good situation
<Azelphur> XFCE + Compiz + Nautilus + Cairo-dock instead of xfce-panel
<Azelphur> works well for me
<jutnux> I use gnome-shell with Docky
<Azelphur> yea but I'm on quad monitor :P
<ali1234> docks are bloody awful
<jutnux> I'd prefer a bottom panel
<ali1234> see bug report ^
<Azelphur> lol
<penguin42> Azelphur: Nice :-)
<ali1234> if they didn't insist on using a dock, i wouldn't have this problem
<Azelphur> ali1234: who insists?
<ali1234> because i'd have a window list that actually made it possible to tell what the windows actually are
<ali1234> Azelphur: the desktop design team
<Azelphur> ali1234: ah :P
<Azelphur> but surely you can just rip out what you don't like and replace it, as I've done
<ali1234> one thing is for sure. unity is the best looking desktop by a long long way
<ali1234> and since i have to look at it a lot that's a big bonus for why i use it
<ali1234> in contrast, KDE and XFCE look terrible, and gnome-shell is only mildly bad
<ali1234> however, i've found that desktop developers don't like bug reports that say "your desktop looks ugly"
<penguin42> see I like the KDE look
<Azelphur> lol
<Laney> BAH
<ali1234> out of all open source software ever made there are basically only two themes that look decent ever made
<Laney> distorted audio after upgrading to precise
<penguin42> Laney: Mooo!
<ali1234> and both of those themes only work on gtk2
<Laney> also graphics fail means i can't play super meat boy :(
<ali1234> and also both of them were paid for by canonical
<penguin42> Laney: Report!
<Laney> yes
<ali1234> KDE looks like widget soup
<ali1234> also nthing is ever aligned properly
<mgdm> mmm soup
<ali1234> but it turns out actually things are aligned properly, it's just that the themes are badly designed so when stuff is aligned, it looks like it isn't
<ali1234> and this can't be fixed due to the design of KDE
<ali1234> this mainly affects things like drop shadows
<ali1234> because they are bigger down one side
<ali1234> of course, every single KDE theme has multiple drop shadows and gradients on everything
<ali1234> so pretty much KDE can only look awful
<ali1234> if you switch it to using the Gtk decorator for everything then you can make it look semi-decent
<penguin42> yeh but that often breaks
<ali1234> because then you have available themes that don't have dropshadows and gradients everywhere
<ali1234> yes, i was coming to that. the gtk decorator is quite buggy, especially with kwin compositing
<ali1234> so yeah, that's why i don't use KDE
<jutnux> ali1234: You tried cinnamon?
<ali1234> no i never heard of it
<penguin42> ali1234: See I guess we have different priorities - I don't actually care too much about the style; I care more about features and things working and being easy for me - and that balance is KDE least-worse at the moment (although there is annoying bug in PP at the moment)
<ali1234> as i said the other day. i started using computers before the GUI was invented and i've used some really truely difficult to use ones
<ali1234> none of the current ones are as bad as, say, windows 3.1
<ali1234> or beos
<penguin42> or GEM
<ali1234> or whatever that thing the atari ST had was
<penguin42> that was GEM
<ali1234> right.
<ali1234> so i can get along with anything in terms of usage
<ali1234> but what i can't stand is when things aren't aligned properly and i have to look at it all day
<penguin42> ali1234: Have you got a bug filed on that?
<ali1234> it's like when you go to someones house and the pictures aren't straight and you really want to go and straighten them out but you can't and it drives you nuts
<ali1234> i filed a bug about the KDE alignment thing
<penguin42> yeh, you see given the untidyness of this room I can't really help on that
<ali1234> it was closed WONTFIX because it can't be fixed without rewriting the whole of KDE
<jutnux> ali1234: Cinnamon is a Gnome-shell fork which might tickle your fanciness.
<jutnux> fancy*
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm I hate that - was that filed in LP or in KDE?
<ali1234> KDE
<ali1234> hang on
<ali1234> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=283106
<lubotu3> KDE bug 283106 in general "Button text vertical alignment is off with Oxygen theme " [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<ali1234> this is just one example
<ali1234> there are plenty more
<ali1234> but i gave up after that one
<ali1234> because they just have excuses and excuses for why they can't fix it
<ali1234> http://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=64183 pretty much explains it
<penguin42> hmm I'm not sure that example is correct
<jutnux> Tell you what though
<jutnux> Gnome Shell's workspaces are annoying me
<ali1234> penguin42: well, you'll have to read the whole bug and let me know
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I'm just reading
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm I think I can see what he's arguing
<ali1234> in the end i prefer something that is over-designed (unity or gnome-shell) to something that is under-designed (KDE)
<ali1234> (or XFCE)
<ali1234> XFCE has all these alignment and font issues too
<ali1234> except they are much worse because XFCE has almost no developers behind it
<ali1234> but it's mitigated by XFCE using Gtk which gives it a bit of a head-start
<penguin42> ali1234: Nod; I suspect people think that adding a drop shadow here and there can't be that hard and then trip over the details
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> KDE should ban drop shadows and gradients in 5.0
<ali1234> in the defaults
<penguin42> ali1234: There are some people who prefer a pretty drop shadow and don't care about the misalignment
<ali1234> drop shadows aren't pretty
<ali1234> especially when they are horribly over used
<ali1234> they are a tool to convey information like everything else
<penguin42> I believe that's called a matter of opinion; personally they don't do much for me but I don't dislike them
<ali1234> but when everything has one they become meaningless
<ali1234> it's like when the manager comes in and says "bold text stands out so please make the entire website be in bold text"
<ali1234> that's KDE in a nutshell :)
<gord> terrifying idea of the day; have a text to speech engine record your voice after you open a web page and automatically insert your reaction into a comment
<gord> would make facebook more interesting
<penguin42> one for halfbakery
<ali1234> reaction images are so much more expressive though
<AlanBell> gord: I think youtube has that feature already
<AlanBell> judging by the comments
<jacobw> gord: lol
<gord> i see jacobw already has the technology working
<jacobw> ha
<jacobw> yes :p
 * czajkowski hugs gord 
<gord> all working now?
<czajkowski> yup
<bigcalm_lappy> Afternoon all
<gord> cool, you might want to make sure your on archive.ubuntu.com instead of a local mirror when running dev releases, they can really lag behind
<gord> thought occured to me earlier ^
<czajkowski> hmm ok
<czajkowski> was missing a kernel update also which had to do manually
<AlanBell> http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:8000/ do you see stuff happening there?
<jacobw> yes
<AlanBell> great
 * AlanBell loves Ubuntu
<jacobw> are you logging tool tips
<AlanBell> not quite
<AlanBell> it is orca the screen reader which sends text to speech dispatcher, which I redirected to a file
<AlanBell> and a node.js webserver doing tail -f on the file
<AlanBell> all in a virtualbox vm
<jacobw> that's cool :)
<AlanBell> so I can navigate about the desktop and people can see what orca would be saying
<AlanBell> I will make it a two way thing as well, so you can send keystrokes back and control the desktop, but this is what I wanted to get working for now
<jutnux> http://i.imgur.com/GrWYI.jpg
 * SuperEngineer starts campaign to stop people using the word "lappy"... eeuuuu... yuk... horible... bad word!
<ali1234> i'm trying to test the unity from oneiric-proposed but it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop
<penguin42> Jaguar Land Rover had a full page job ad in the Times weekend section - must have cost a fortune; surprising they're finding it that hard to find people
 * hamitron goes to website to look
<mattt> evening
<Laney> greetings
<Laney> saturday night with TLPI. rock and indeed roll
<mattt> TLPI?
<Laney> http://man7.org/tlpi/
<mattt> Laney: that's an interesting looking book
<Laney> it is a weighty tome
<jacobw> http://gizmodo.com/5627807/bubbling-tricks-your-mind-to-makes-anyone-naked
<jacobw> wow
<penguin42> jacobw: That's erm neat!
 * penguin42 waits for the test cases
<jutnux> Got to love Bitfolk upgrading the Bandwidth for free \o/
<RaycisCharles> Virgin Media also promised to double my internets to 100mbit...sometime in the next 18 months.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: Have they said anything about upstream bandwidth and what about any form of cap/shaping?
<gord> thats nice. i get 3mbit.
<jutnux> I meant my server provider but hey, Virgin Media is awesome too.
<jutnux> gord: I get 5. I feel your pain.
<gord> thats almost double mine, no you don't ;P
<RaycisCharles> penguin42: there are no caps on any Virgin plan, or shaping on the 50 or 100 plans.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: how much are the 50/100 plans?
<RaycisCharles> I don't expect that to change, especially since BT now have their own uncapped unshaped ADSL (or is it GayDSL? Ehehehehe) plan.
 * penguin42 can't get Infinity here :-(
<RaycisCharles> I think I pay Â£35/mo for just 50Mbit, without phone or TV.
<penguin42> (very annoying since the exchange is enabled)
<RaycisCharles> Now that's pretty damn good considering I get 50Mbit 95% of the time and there are no data caps.
<RaycisCharles> I've downloaded about 200gb a month for the last...year?
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: That's not too bad - I pay about ~23 for ADSL2 getting ~11Mbps and a fixed IP for that (I could probably find that cheaper)
<RaycisCharles> Also, I ge 5Mbit up.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: Oh, now 5Mbit up is nice
<RaycisCharles> In reality, it's 50.5MBit down, about 4.8Mbit up.
<RaycisCharles> I want that lost 200Kbit/s dammit.
<RaycisCharles> All the technical merits are with cable.
<penguin42> it's probably one level of protocol overhead somewhere
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: I think Infinity can get a higher upstream bandwidth
<gord> 4mbit up isn't great really, i get 1mbit up on my crappy connection
<gord> 5*
<RaycisCharles> penguin42, "up to".
<penguin42> gord: True, but it's still more than that 1mbit
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: What are typical download rates you get when pulling ubuntu updates?
<RaycisCharles> gord, it's pretty difficult to offer 50Mbit synchronous unless you have dedicated circuits.
<gord> i think the technical merrits are with fibre
<RaycisCharles> penguin42, I don't even run Ubuntu.
<RaycisCharles> gord, well, cable is fibre to the cabinet IIRC.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: Sheesh :-)  Well anything equivalent
<RaycisCharles> The last hundred yards is coax.
<RaycisCharles> penguin42: um, it maxes out my connection when I download a *nix ISO.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: It's fibre to the cab and yeh last bit is coax, but I'm fairly sure there is contention at various points at the cab and in the fibre network
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: But hey, if it maxes for you then that's good
<RaycisCharles> penguin42, yeah, but the contention ratio is lower for cable than ADSL.
<gord> fibre to the home is quite obviously the way forward ;)
<gord> long run
<RaycisCharles> It's about 20:1 for cable and 30:1 for ADSL IIRC.
<penguin42> gord: Agreed
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: ADSL varies heavily depending on provider, anything upto 50 I think
<RaycisCharles> And the simple fact is the technology means almost all cable customers get the advertised speed, whilst almost no ADSL customers get the advertised speed.
<RaycisCharles> ADSL2+ maxes out at 24Mbit/s doesn't it?
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: I meant 50:1
<RaycisCharles> Oh.
<RaycisCharles> What I want to see is Virgin's exchanges opened up to third parties.
<RaycisCharles> They have a monopoly on cable...
<RaycisCharles> Unless you live in Hull.
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: So you don't have to deal with them?
<RaycisCharles> Well, don't all telco/TV/mobile companies have shitty customer support?
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: The difficulty is that most of their equipment isn't in the exchange - it's in the street cabs (same for BT infinity) - so what do you give a 3rd party access to?
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: There are one or two with good support - but they cost
<RaycisCharles> penguin42, whatever they need to provide cable competition to Virgin.
<RaycisCharles> The thing is, Virgin's actual cable service is top notch. It's because the service they provide is much lower than what they're capable of.
<gord> sounds like a bad deal for virgin
<penguin42> RaycisCharles: It's pretty hard to see how; don't forget with BT LLU, Openreach still deal with the copper
<SuperEngineer> How to tell if you're *human* or ad exec. A *human* wouldn't run an advert today extolling pleasures of cruises - would they you P&O idiots.
<RaycisCharles> Who cares? It's a good deal for society.
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Oops
<RaycisCharles> SuperEngineer: they would run an advert today extolling the pleasures of land-based activities.
<gord> virgin prolly cares
<RaycisCharles> Welsh tourist board: "Climb Ben Nevis; you'll never drown."
<gord> if other companies want to get in there, they'll have to lay their own cable
<RaycisCharles> Well I suppose.
<penguin42> gord: Well it would be difficult for them to object given getting BT to open up
<RaycisCharles> BT were a state monopoly.
<RaycisCharles> Virgin are a private monopoly.
<RaycisCharles> They bought out all their cable competition.
<RaycisCharles> Apart from Hull, which is a shithole.
<penguin42> gord: But I can't see a good technical solution
<gord> simple fact is that if you want a competitor to virgin, its adsl/fibre - like me, i could get fibre here, but it would be through BT and i hate BT with a firey passion, so i don't
<RaycisCharles> gord why do you hate BT?
<RaycisCharles> How could you, after those wonderful Kris Marshall adverts?
<RaycisCharles> (Those were the most excruciatingly painfully bad adverts EVER.)
<RaycisCharles> Twatosaur wants to bone chubs girl with annoying kids. JOIN BT!!
<RaycisCharles> gord, ADSL isn't a competitor so long as you 1) need to buy a BT phone line, and 2) you only get 1/3rd of the "up to 24Mbit" speed on average
<gord> i don't think you understand what the word competitor is; to restate, i choose adsl through Be, because i perfer the service they give through ADSL than the service BT gives through infinity
<gord> you just prefer virgin to adsl
<RaycisCharles> I didn't mean ADSL was literally not a competitor.
<RaycisCharles> I'm saying it's a no-brainer if you look at the internet service and pricing, although the customer service is a nightmare.
<zleap> !seen Paln
<lubotu3> I have no seen command
<zleap> !lastseen Paln
<zleap> !lastseen Pal
<zleap> !lastseen Paln
<jacobw> stop interograting poor lubotu3
<zleap> sorry
<bigcalm_lappy> I think you can do that in private message
<AlanBell> and it doesn't have that functionality
<bigcalm_lappy> One could ask nickserv
<jutnux> popey: When is your support tool going to be open for use? :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-15
<mgdm> is Oneiric any good on netbooks?
<mgdm> Fedora is driving me insane by being broken in weird ways (like half of network manager segfaulting when attempting to usse it, because of missing icons)
<penguin42> Oneiric should work ok on a netbook
<mgdm> Wonder what desktop environment to use
<penguin42> mgdm: Unity works OK for a netbook
<mgdm> Hmmm
<mgdm> I'm sceptical, but I may try tomorrow
<penguin42> mgdm: Although if you're going to drive a projector with it give it a go before you end up trying to give your presentation :-)
<mgdm> That would be a major issue
<mgdm> I'm well-versed in xrandr on the CLI, as I've never ever had the Display applet do anything except lock X up
<mgdm> I might go and see if that bug got updated, actually
<penguin42> oh the display applet generally plays ball with me; it's just I did have a bit of a fight when I was using it with a LibreOffice presentation a few weeks back on my netbook
<mgdm> I suppose if I don't get on with it I'll just use LXDE like I do on Fedora
<mgdm> gnome-shell munched the machine to the point it was too slow to be usable
<jutnux> Internet is so fast at this time of night <3
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> hiya
<mattt> morning
<brobostigon> afternoonings mattt and dwatkins
<mattt> derp, it's no longer morning is it :)
<mattt> hey brobostigon
 * MartijnVdS plays with the Selphy a bit more
<dwatkins> it is in the Bristol timezone... ;) (I'm in Edinburgh, but I gather Bristol used to be 15 minutes behind London)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "Netherlands Railway time was based on GMT until 1909 when the country adopted 'Amsterdam time' as the standard time for the country, which was 19 minutes ahead of GMT. This persisted until 1940, when the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands required a shift to German time, which has continued to be the standard."
<MartijnVdS> So we're in the wrong time zone because of Ze Germans
<dwatkins> You would have changed it eventually, being on the same piece of land as the rest of "continental Europe", I imagine, MartijnVdS ;) just look at Samoa...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Bristol was behind 14 minutes, according to the same Wikipedia page, btw :)
<mattt> 19 minutes of GMT?
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS :)
 * mattt needs a coffee
<MartijnVdS> mattt: This was between 1909 and 1940
 * dwatkins makes a note
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_time
<mattt> heh, i clearly don't know my history ... that's a pretty interesting link :)
<MartijnVdS> mattt: time is an illusion ;)
<dwatkins> ...lunchtime doubly so.
<brobostigon> hhgttg :)
<MartijnVdS> Speaking of lunchtime
<MartijnVdS> ...
<brobostigon> ford prefect*
<RaycisCharles> I'm not sure if I want to move to CET or not.
<RaycisCharles> On the one hand, it gives those of us in England a lot more daylight in the evenings whilst preserving light mornings.
<RaycisCharles> On the other hand, it means Scotland will still be dark around 9am.
<RaycisCharles> I can't see any negatives tbh.
<dwatkins> It's pretty dark here a lot of the time anyway, RaycisCharles.
<RaycisCharles> Exactly.
<RaycisCharles> Plus most of you don't work anyway, so dark morning commutes aren't an issue.
<dwatkins> How come there's so much traffic at 8am, then? ;)
<RaycisCharles> I'd guess because pubs open at 8am.
<dwatkins> :-p
<RaycisCharles> It'll be interesting to see if Scotland goes indie.
<dwatkins> There's no logical reason for it to do so that I can see.
<RaycisCharles> Well, it's a sovereignty / pride issue
<RaycisCharles> Same reason why Cornwall wants independence.
<RaycisCharles> I kinda want to see it happen, just for the entertainment value of seeing Salmond's government fail spectacularly.
<moreati> RaycisCharles: what would be the primary reason(s) their downfall?
<RaycisCharles> Alex Salmond would eat all the food in Scotland.
<RaycisCharles> Also, they say they'd want to continue to use the pound...which would be managed by the Bank of England, so you'd have a mini-Poundzone where London sets interest rates which affect Scotland.
<mattt> RaycisCharles: lol
<mattt> RaycisCharles: reading up at what you said
<RaycisCharles> ...which would be somewhat problematic if Scotland needs to devalue, since they can't if they keep the pound.
<RaycisCharles> Also, they wouldn't be members of the EU anymore. The London government would veto their membership lol. They'd have to reapply and commit to joining the Euro.
<dwatkins> Do you live in Sealand, RaycisCharles?
<mattt> RaycisCharles: i know little about politics, but now seems like the worst time in history to be having independence discussions
<RaycisCharles> No, the green part of England just north of London. Couldn't you tell?
<RaycisCharles> mattt, it certainly is, for Scotland at least.
<RaycisCharles> The problem is that nobody's really thought it through.
<dwatkins> indeed
<RaycisCharles> Take the NHS for example. It's already devolved, but the Scottish NHS benefits from economies of scale thanks to the English NHS.
<dwatkins> perhaps the people propoising it profit from it
<RaycisCharles> If Scotland was independent, Scottish drugs would like double in price or something.
<RaycisCharles> Since there'd be no collective NHS barter - only England, Wales and NI would get cheap drugs.
<mattt> RaycisCharles: aren't they already in a better position than those in england when it comes to prescriptions, etc.?
<RaycisCharles> Yes, but that's because they get a generous block grant from London which is more than their tax/economic contribution.
<RaycisCharles> If they actually had to pay for defence, foreign policy etc. they wouldn't be able to afford free prescriptions.
<RaycisCharles> Poor parts of the country are net receivers, and richer are net contributers - that's normal in any country. Eg. Liverpool gets a lot more money than it generates.
<RaycisCharles> But you can't take the money and then bitch about the people giving you the money, which is what the SNP do all the time.
<dwatkins> even taking tourism into account?
<RaycisCharles> Who goes to Liverpool for a holiday? :S
<mattt> :)
<dwatkins> the scottish? ;)
<RaycisCharles> Obviously London generates most tourism money.
<RaycisCharles> I'd prefer the Union stays but it'd have to be in its current form.
<mattt> speaking of tourism, i'm off to london to eat me some dim sum
<RaycisCharles> If a majority in Scotland want "devo max" i.e. control of tax and spend, that'd have to be put to a referendum in the rest of the UK.
<mattt> again, i don't know much about what goes on out there, but i can't see in a million years scotland actually going through with this
<RaycisCharles> No, it's entirely possible.
<RaycisCharles> It's a referendum; all that matters is how you word the question, when you hold it, who you let vote.
<mattt> so they continue using the pound, at which point they may as well be part of the union, they go to the euro, and like ... that in itself seems odd, or they get their own currency
<RaycisCharles> And what you tell the voters. Do you think the SNP is going to be honest and say Scotland would have to join the Euro, pay more for drugs, lose the BBC etc.?
<mattt> i read something that if they had their own currency, no one would have a clue what it'd be valued when it went 'live'
<RaycisCharles> Yup.
<Neoti> hi All...
 * mattt is afk
<RaycisCharles> I just want to see the back of that smarmy fat cunt Salmond.
<moreati> RaycisCharles: thank you for an in depth rant^W answer :)
<itscrapsofar> just installed 11.10 as a first time UBUNTU install, screen defaults to 640x480, cant see options, cant change resolution, nvidia config fails to save settings, google chrome fails to load - multiple problems..... help
<itscrapsofar> anyone alive to help? or am I just banging my head on a wall
<AlanBell> itscrapsofar: hello
<itscrapsofar> hello
<itscrapsofar> I'm not having a great time of a 1st time install
<AlanBell> what are you installing it on?
<itscrapsofar> x86 Acer box
<AlanBell> with an nvidia card presumably
<itscrapsofar> yup
<AlanBell> and a monitor that reports it's resolutions correctly
<itscrapsofar> yes, 2x eizo 21"'s
<AlanBell> what is the output of lspci |grep VGA
 * AlanBell wonders off to make lunch, back later
<itscrapsofar> I managed once to get both screens up,  rebboted twice and was fine... next time, box with multiple entries saying it cant select mode.... now its stuck in 640 x 480 and cant select anything.... basically the install seems buggered
 * itscrapsofar wanders off to re-format the drive..... I was warned Ubuntu was tetchy.... thanks for the support
<AlanBell> well that was positive wasn't it
<Neoti> AlanBell: i only just got back to computer and read the above .... would have helped.... lol
<penguin42> AlanBell: I get you can't blame if it didn't work that bad
<Neoti> needed more info
<penguin42> 1st impressions influence people a lot
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: that sentence doesn't parse
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Sorry, it's a bit early, it's not even 2pm
<MartijnVdS> 14:41 < penguin42> MartijnVdS: Sorry, it's a bit early, it's not even 2pm
<MartijnVdS> Is too!
<MartijnVdS> (two?)
<penguin42> (01:41:48 PM) MartijnVdS: Is too!
<penguin42> Is not!
<czajkowski> calls for a ubuntu/opensource talk at crawley on ubuntu UK mailing list
<czajkowski> anyone going to volunteer
<AlanBell> yeah, will get back to him on that
<czajkowski> cool
<czajkowski> I'm close just not sure I'm the right person
<czajkowski> but could do it if someone gave me a hand on slides/presentation
<penguin42> what sort of hand?
<czajkowski> ideas on content on slides and topics to cover
<penguin42> do you know the LUG and how technical they are?
<czajkowski> am only about 30 mins away from there
<czajkowski> penguin42: read the mail on the ml it doesnt go into too much detail
<penguin42> hmm, not on that list
<czajkowski> ubuntu uk mailing list
<penguin42> ah right, see it
<penguin42> czajkowski: LUGs seem to vary a lot in technical knowledge so it can be difficult to judge
<AlanBell> it isn't a lug
<AlanBell> it is the IET http://www.theiet.org/
<penguin42> oh, it's an IET thing - hmm those are even more random....
<AlanBell> I replied to him off list
<penguin42> something on how packages get from original authors of the code into debian and then into ubuntu and how bugs work might be an interesting one for a talk
<penguin42> it might work for people who aren't particularly Ubuntu/Linux people but who may know a bit and are general softies
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I pinged Matt Barker with it too
<czajkowski>  q qoki dokie
<tsurc> hi :) anyone had any problems with 12.04 and Ipv6? Im not seeing any router advertisements from my router, yet both my galaxy nexus and this very laptop running centos see them fine.
<swat_> anyone run an SSD on ubuntu?
<hamitron> tsurc, maybe worth asking in #ubuntu+1
<tsurc> cheers hamitron ;) tried #ubuntu but didnt get very far at all :(
<DJones> swat_: I think there's quite a few here that do, although its a bit quiet here at the minute, if you wait around for a while, hopefully somebody will be able to help
<hamitron> DJones, you can type faster than me :)
<DJones> :)
<swat_> DJones: am a bit of a lurker anyway
<hamitron> !ssd
<hamitron> worth a try :D
 * penguin42 really should buy himself an ssd
<DJones> swat_: What was your query about SSD's anyway
<hamitron> hdd seem to be always the thing I skimp back on
<DJones> swat_: This may answer a question anyway http://askubuntu.com/questions/52258/is-ssd-really-supported-by-ubuntu
<swat_> DJones: it was more, if anyone had used it and noticed a significant performance difference
<jacobw> \o/
<jacobw> new series of hustle
<swat_> jacobw: :) it's good
<jacobw> yeah, i've been a fan for some time
<jacobw> i'd started to think it was over
<OmNomDePlume> jacobw: does it still have that hot chick who was in Dexter?
<jacobw> no
<DJones> jacobw: New last ever series though ):
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> it is about time though
<AlanBell> ooh this looks good http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00n2bld
<penguin42> bah, and I thought the swimming pool thing across the last series boundary was supposed to be that equivalent
<penguin42> (although calling 3 episodes a series is stretching it)
<Azelphur> Just to confirm I'm doing this right, if my provider charges me 6p/kwh, and I'm using 1.8kw, I do (1.8*0.06)*730 to get the monthly cost, excluding VAT?
<Azelphur> 730 being the amount of numbers in a month
<Azelphur> amount of hours* derp
<penguin42> sounds about right
<Azelphur> fun
<OmNomDePlume> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TheLees-double-breasted-turtle-padding/dp/B005ZO7DI8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ap_3 lol this is a mens jacket?
<Azelphur> OmNomDePlume: it is if you want to look like a douche :D
<moreati> oh, I was just thinking it looked alright
<AlanBell> if you are a criminal genius perhaps Dr moreati
<AlanBell> professor, sorry
<penguin42> I thnik you mean moriarty
<penguin42> AlanBell: moreati is his evil GL uncle
<Azelphur> wtf, the form on http://www.britishgas.co.uk/products-and-services/energy/our-tariffs.html overrides my keyboard layout
 * Azelphur stabs british gas
<penguin42> overrides keyboard layout?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I use a colemak keyboard, but if I type in that postcode box my keyboard acts as if it was qwerty
 * penguin42 doubts that's BG fault - I don't think you can flip something like that from js ?
<Azelphur> *shrug* never seen anything like that happen on any other website ever
<penguin42> would say browser bug, but it would be interesting to know how
<Azelphur> hehe
<OmNomDePlume> moreati, I think it looks fabulous, and gay.
<OmNomDePlume> I fear I would made fun of if I wore that in red.
<OmNomDePlume> That colour is really a girls' colour for jackets.
<moreati> OmNomDePlume: I just looked at the unzipped picture, and I'm much less keen on it
<jacobw> http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200506/06/images/0605_B10.jpg
<jacobw> orly?
<moreati> yeah but everything goes well with bearskin, cause who's gonna tak the mick of somewhere that can skin a bear
<moreati> *someone
<Azelphur> OmNomDePlume: my next jacket is undoubtably gonna be one of these http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/07/500x_scottevestcoat.jpg
<Azelphur> or a similar scottevest anyway
<Azelphur> they arn't kidding about how much stuff you can hide in there too, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH8uTdBXVmY
<penguin42> That's nuts!
<Azelphur> Indeed :D
<penguin42> now, add a pair of good cargos to that....
<jutnux> I don't think I've ever eaten so much food in my entire life.
<jutnux> And evening all, how are you? :-)
 * penguin42 has a cold :-(
<penguin42> jutnux: Now, what food are we talking about here?
<jutnux> penguin42: 20 chicken nuggets, 2 big tasties, 2 coffees (food?) and a large milkshake.
<jutnux> I literally feel like I'm going to explode.
<penguin42>  'tasties' ?
<OmNomDePlume> Is that it?!?
<OmNomDePlume> 20 chicken nuggets is a snack.
<jutnux> penguin42: Massive burgers in McDonalds.
<jutnux> OmNomDePlume: Not for me.
<OmNomDePlume> You have a tiny hamster stomach.
<jutnux> Perhaps ;-)
<jacobw> crazy
<jutnux> It was tasty though
<jutnux> Sherlock on at 9, hell yeah.
<moreati> jutnux: what did you think of last week's episode?
 * popey wibbles
<jutnux> moreati: Nice nick. It was amazing.
<jutnux> popey: Any idea when trublr is going to be released? :-)
<moreati> jutnux: thank you
<popey> not yet
<popey> been a bit busy
<jutnux> I've got a feeling it's going to be extremely useful for the support channels.
<popey> yeah, maybe
<jutnux> How was the Opera yesterday?
<popey> i liked the music âº
<jutnux> Where was it again? Austria? :P
<popey> vienna
 * popey heads to the bar
<popey> ttfn
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jutnux> Adios.
<zleap> hi is this a bug,   using 11.04 i have xchat open fully,  if i then open nautilus  it opens fine, but thenif I move the mouse up to focus on the xchat window I don't have a close button for xchat,  this comes back if I close the nauilus window
<zleap> i can click on the xchat window to get the close button back, but why do the menus change but I have to click to get the close button back
<gord> zleap, you mean the xchat window is maximised and the nautilus window isn't? not a bug, by design
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i guess i am using click to focus
<zleap> but I would expect when i move over the xchat window which is behind the opened nautilus window I would get the whole menu bar bit back
<ali1234> it's pretty bad design
<ali1234> but there's nothing anyone can do about it
<ali1234> actually there is one thing you can do. stop using ubuntu...
<gord> zleap, happens to be an area of the design that is in flux when we do user testing, so maybe it'll change in the future :)
<jutnux> I thought you used Ubuntu ali
<zleap> pok
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well the issue is not a problem i was simply asking if it was a bug or not,
<daubers> Evening
 * jutnux pokes daubers 
<jutnux> hi
<daubers> quiet this evening isn't it
<Lorra> Hey everyone, I was looking for someone who could help me with this problem: every time I use the command info I get this error message info: Cannot find node `Top'. What can I do with that?
<brobostigon> is the program top installed?
<Lorra> yes, I have the program "top"
<brobostigon> so if you run top in terminal, you get top?
<Lorra> yeah I get it, why?
<brobostigon> just checking.
<Lorra> brobostigon: so would you know anything more?
<brobostigon> Lorra: not of the top of my head. sorry/
<Lorra> oh, OK, thanks anyway
<ali1234> info is a hypertext documentation system used by the gnu project
<ali1234> it was supposed to replace man, but nobody can understand how it works or how to use it
<Lorra> ali1234: I think using it is pretty simple: you type info <nameOfCommand> and you get an help page
<ali1234> yeah man works the same way
<Lorra> and on that help page you may have hyperlinks to other help pages
<ali1234> but is a lot easier to use
<Lorra> man doesn't have hyperlinks
<ali1234> and it doesn't spit out cryptic error messages
<ali1234> on man everything is on one page. press / to search
<Lorra> 'cause info is evil
<ali1234> you don't need to know anything else
<Lorra> found a solution, I had someone else to give his/her /usr/share/info/dir to me and I used it, now it works again ( :
<gord> bah, 3.2 kernel doesn't have the awesome power saving stuff
<gord> back to 3.0 so i get 8 hours
<zleap> hmm,  why is that then
<SuperEngineer> Sherlock -5 ...and counting  ;)
<gordonjcp> is there a way to force Unity to show a separate icon in the Mac bar thing for several instances of the same program?
<gordonjcp> ie. if I have four terminal windows open, have separate icons for each
<jacobw> i don't think so
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: nope, what I would like it to do is show all the window titles in the quicklist when you right click it
<AlanBell> gord: would that be possible/easy to do?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: see, that is the biggest thing that slows me down with Unity
<gord> nope, not really
<AlanBell> yeah, click it and 20 tiny windows shoot off into the distance
<AlanBell> on the plus side, if you have compiz enhanced zoom on you can zoom into them
<AlanBell> so I click the icon, then super+mousewheel to zoom in and pan around to find the one I want
<gordonjcp> I haven't got compiz
 * AlanBell hugs compiz
<gordonjcp> I haven't got 3d, because I use intel
<gordonjcp> I barely even have graphics
 * AlanBell hugs intel
<jacobw> eyes â sherlock
<AlanBell> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 12)
<AlanBell> driving the laptop display plus an external 2048x1152 monitor
 * AlanBell goes to watch sherlock
<jutnux> Crap
<jutnux> Woops
<jutnux> forgot to turn it on
<gord> gordonjcp, out of interest, what graphics chip do you have?
<gord> unity 3d runs pretty low down the intel graphics stack
<gordonjcp> 82945G
<gordonjcp> if I enable unity I just get stripy garbage on the screen
<gordonjcp> I *still* get stripy garbage without unity, just not as badly
<gordonjcp> but, it's an Intel chipset, so it's pretty fundamentally not suitable for Linux
<gord> ah okay, so its the driver that makes sense
<gordonjcp> gord: the main problem is trying to get any of the xorg devs to believe that the problem exists...
<gord> sandybridge driver does the same thing if you enable some power saving optimisations, happens in 3d and 2d applications. i just don't enable them
<gord> i915.i915_enable_rc6=1 is the kernel parameter you enable to get the stripy corruption on the sandybridge chipset anyway
<gordonjcp> interesting
<gordonjcp> can you force it to be disabled?
<gordonjcp> it's a P4 so it's not like it's particularly good on power *anyway*
<gord> maybe =0 ? ;) i'd look up the kernel parameters for your chip set and see what makes sense
<gordonjcp> it's particularly brutal in 12.04 on this machine since I only have 2G of RAM
<gordonjcp> it *does* seem to be related to the memory getting full
<gord> yeah i experienced a similar behaviour, friends with the same machine but 4/8gb of ram wouldn't get it, whereas I with 2GB would get it often
<gord> that reminds me, should get more ram
<jutnux> Moriati, what a genius.
<gordonjcp> gord: I don't think this will even take 4G
<gord> if you mouse over the "search all messages" box in thunderbird, the tooltip shows "search the web" Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> :O!
<jutnux> WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
<jacobw> :)
<jutnux> Good ole Molly.
 * gord looks at 11:29 in his battery indicator
<gord> i love precice -_-
<mattt> 11:29!?
<gord> yup
<gord> it confused me, i thought it was 11:29 at night
<AlanBell> so it is good with batteries then?
 * AlanBell ponders a precise upgrade
<AlanBell> or a dual boot
<gord> its good with my hardware, that's all i can really say ;) if you have a sandybridge device i'd say you should have better battery life
<gord> but not with the latest kernel, seems that lost the benefits, the 3.0 kernel is great, 3.2 not so much
<AlanBell> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU
<gord> i3 may or may not be sandybridge ;)
<AlanBell> helpful
<mattt> gord: what sort of laptop?
<gord> x220
<gord> thinkpad
<mattt> ah, those are sweet
<gord> they really are, lots of canonicalites with them too which helps. got mine, showed it off, suddenly everyone else got theirs ;)
<AlanBell> heh, yeah, that helps. I have seen what happens to bugs reported on hardware silbs uses ;)
<mattt> ha
<gord> i *may* have waited for an X guy to get one before i did ;)
<matti> ;]
<mattt> i'd love to move away from my apple laptop, but every non-apple laptop just feels clunky and cumbersome to use :(
<matti> Apple?
<matti> :<
<matti> #kittenjustdied
<matti> mattt: ThinkPad W520 ;]
<Azelphur> mattt: just do what I do with hardware "I don't care how big it is, I want a third hard drive."
<AlanBell> I have grown to like my Samsung R530, I got it a couple of years ago and now the last bug (VGA port timing issue) has been fixed and I filled it up with 8GB ram
<mattt> Azelphur: oh, i do care how big it is tho :)
<Azelphur> mattt: I roll with a dell M1730, it's pretty much one of the largest in existence haha
<mattt> Azelphur: if you need a laptop bag on wheels, you need to re-evaluate things :)
<AlanBell> the screen resolution is lower than I had before, I had 1600x1200 then 1920x1080 then this one is just 1366x768
<Azelphur> mattt: I use a backpack, works ok :D
<mattt> AlanBell: what are you running?  not precise ?
<AlanBell> but with a big external monitor I am actually fine with the fairly low laptop screen size
<AlanBell> mattt: oneiric on this one, precise on a little atom powered desktop I have
<mattt> i went to install precise on my msi wind uwhatever the other week, thing no longer boots
<mattt> think the memory's faulty :/
<directhex> oof.
<mattt> which is great, since i've used it a whopping 6 times ... if that :)
<directhex> pulled everything off the AV unit, and started attaching speakers to the wall. tired out.
<mattt> on a sunday evening?  ambitious :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-07
<Azelphur> what's a good cross platform file sharing setup, samba?
<daftykins> yip
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> sure is
<daftykins> you too can hate ownership and permissions for hours to come
<solarcloud_3scrn> daftykins, that sounds like an Ad. for a kickstarter campaign ;)
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> doubt i'd get many contributions
<solarcloud_3scrn> doubt.ers' gonna doubt.
<dwatkins> moin moin
<daftykins> greetings
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<popey> pip pip
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning aptanet
<aptanet> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think I might have given you an old car pass. It should be yellow.
<aptanet> ah, may have to move the car then!
<TheOpenSourcerer> When AlanBell arrives ask him to dig one out of the drawer.
<aptanet> ok, thanks
<daftykins> i felt like i was in an office as a fly just then
<ali1234> popey: how am i supposed to package this QML app then? the developer docs just... stop.
<TheOpenSourcerer> daftykins: Yeah sorry. Gone to private chat.
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: that's alright it was quite amusing ^_^
<AlanBell> aptanet: see you shortly :)
<ali1234> btw i found out what a marquee device is
<ali1234> it's a device that you see in a shop window, basically
<ali1234> a marquee is the place in front of a cinema where they advertise the new films
<dwatkins> we used to use big red LED-based displays for scrolling information, I think those are called marquees too
<ali1234> yes
<popey> this was in the context of sabdfl's intro to Ubuntu for Phones
<ali1234> it's the same derivation. as opposed to a large tent. nothing to do with that apparently.
<popey> ya
<ali1234> it's like a non-committal way of saying flagship device
<daftykins> it can mean the fakes then?
<ali1234> no, it just means galaxy mini as opposed to galaxy s3
<popey> given that video is aimed at ODMs I suspect the use of that term is highly deliberate
<ali1234> why would he say that in a video for ODMs?
<ali1234> at all
<ali1234> "we expect your competitors will do it"
<ali1234> it's funny how people always say "don't blame mark, he doesn't do business jargon"
<popey> they do?
<ali1234> yes. whenever he says something that annoys people someone always uses that as an excuse
<AlanBell> ali1234: ah ok thanks
<SuperMatt> morning
<AlanBell> ali1234: one of those internal terms like in supermarkets the things that they put the goods on are called gondolas
<ali1234> yeah it's industry speak
<daftykins> over here in the co-op supermarkets, they're called Unis for some reason
<AlanBell> brand suppliers give the supermarkets planograms of how they want their ranges displayed on the gondola, and what they really want is to be on a gondola end, like batteries are
<daftykins> ooh, the whole aisle
<AlanBell> the aisle is the bit between the gondolas :)
<daftykins> that's true
<AlanBell> duracell got batteries on an end because people were nicking them, so they put them on the end, people nicked the same amount but the sales went up so they had a lower percentage stockloss so they stayed there
<ali1234> makes sense
<ali1234> people don't walk down every aisle
<ali1234> but they walk past every end
<AlanBell> yes
<daftykins> i'm not sure i follow that reasoning?
<AlanBell> and when staff have to get from front of house to back of house they are told to pick a route past the high loss products
<popey> and no the batteries are facing the tills, rather than facing another gondola
<kvarley> More to the point who nicks batteries?
<czajkowski> aloha
<kvarley> They are expensive I guess
<kvarley> czajkowski: \o
<popey> people steal all kinds of things
<AlanBell> kvarley: they are easy to sell, and this goes back a long way
<AlanBell> can you remember when batteries were not on an end?
<popey> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9001509/Anthony-Worrall-Thompson-cautioned-over-cheese-and-wine-theft.html
<kvarley> It's shocking that people nick stuff out of supermarkets, I mean the amount of CCTV about you think they'd consider the massive chance of getting caught
<kvarley> AlanBell: Errrr, weirdly I can't lol
<daftykins> that sneaky funny-voiced chef
<popey> i used to work at B&Q HQ near their department that dealt with 'shrinkage'
 * AlanBell once wrote a big application to analyse stockloss/shrinkage for duracell/braun/gillette/oralB
<popey> was amusing to hear of the various ways people steal stuff from B&Q
<daftykins> sounds amusing :D
<popey> like throwing power drills over the wall
<kvarley> lol
<popey> or putting things in bins and buying the bin
<daftykins> XD
<popey> (they now put the barcode on the inside of the bin to prevent that)
<SuperMatt> good idea
<kvarley> I wouldn't want the job, but I bet security guards watching the CCTV monitors must see some weird stuff
<SuperMatt> though I imagine people still try
<popey> of course they do
<popey> all stores suffer shrinkage
<popey> even amazon âº
 * kvarley feels dirty. Installing windows 8 in vbox :/
<SuperMatt> my ex worked at a clothes store. someone pulled off the tag, which set off the alarm, and stuffed it in his bag
<SuperMatt> unfortunately, the store only had female staff, and he was a big guy and so everyone just let him walk out
<SuperMatt> the store never thought to hire security
<dwatkins> many shops I go to in the UK don't have security
<daftykins> hah
<daftykins> permanent security in a Tesco in Chelsea amused me :>
<dwatkins> yeah, we have security in Tesco Express
<daftykins> i don't think any shops here on Guernsey have security
<dwatkins> probably because it sells alcohol
<daftykins> heh places do here too
<AlanBell> couple of guys ripped an iPhone out of the display in carphone warehouse farnham when I was in there
<daftykins> not far to run on an island, mind
<daftykins> sad what some will do
<AlanBell> little guy ran off with it, big chap walked out really slowly just to make sure nobody gave chase
<dwatkins> the alarms go off all the time in PC Worlds I visit, I just walk away calmly and hope they don't suspect me... ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<daftykins> hai
<SuperMatt> if the alarm goes off in a store I'm in, I'll stop, turn around and look for any guards coming for me and, if no one cares, I just keep walking
<daftykins> whether you've stolen something or not? :)
<dwatkins> A friend of mine spent a week trying to get the tag off a piece of clothing he'd been given as a present - the person in the shop his girlfriend bought it from forgot to remove it. He ended up going into a shop with the receipt and getting them to remove it, but it took several shops before he found one with the same kind of tag.
<dwatkins> we tried using magnets first, even hard disk magnets, but no joy
<SuperMatt> I haven't stolen anything, beyong penny sweets when I didn't know better
<SuperMatt> I've walked out of a shop with clothes still entagged. Walked past the guard, through the barriers, and nothing went off
<daftykins> dwatkins: heh, curious tech
<daftykins> i bought a pair of jeans in Miami, they've got this little lump stuck inside that you can feel just above one of the pockets
<dwatkins> daftykins: yeah, it's fascinating - I think it does use magnets, but not sure how - we didn't want to open it in case it was filled with dye
<daftykins> i imagine maybe someday i'll be pulled aside wearing them and it'll be some illegal substance stuck in there Â¬_Â¬
<dwatkins> what if you wear them going back into the store, daftykins?
<daftykins> haha i'm a long way from Miami right now
<popey> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2085920 - XDA guy sets up a petition to request that Canonical works with the XDA-Developer community..
<AlanBell> well I would imagine it is in Canonical's interests for aftermarket installs to happen
<daftykins> you know they'll find a way themselves if not
<popey> exactly
<mungbean> how many VM installs are there? over 2M?
<mungbean> ^VM^CM
<mungbean> i'd love a dual boot ubuntu/androidCM tablet
<mungbean> especially a transfromer type thing
<mungbean> actually, if a transformer dual booted my 2 favourite OS i wouldn't need a laptop
<directhex> CM is a symptom of a horrid disease
<dwatkins> Android being slow? ;)
<directhex> handset vendors' android images
<directhex> with the bloat, and the never upgrading beyond 2.3
<mungbean> there's a reason for that we all know
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> it's surprising the crap that comes on modern samsungs
<mungbean> i know plenty of htc desire owners who still have the phone because it meets their needs when it runs CM
<daftykins> that's my phone
<daftykins> but having the 150MB /data makes it unusable practically
<mungbean> i fixed that
<daftykins> install a few apps and oh look, busted
<daftykins> data2SD?
<mungbean> S2E
<mungbean> make a 500mb partition on SDcard and it moves cache and /data over there seamlessly
<daftykins> impressive
<directhex> i like windows phone :<
<mungbean> directhex: you are the 1%
<popey> you forgot a decimal there mungbean
<daftykins> XD
<directhex> can't find any meaningful up to date market share numbers for smartphones
<directhex> i guess they do them in march, for the financial year, or somesuch
<daftykins> whenever they feel like making sweeping generalisations
<directhex> i still like windows phone. android gives me stomach ulcers
<mungbean> on bbc click they often feature a WM app
<mungbean> which makes me wonder about their objectivity
<mungbean> why feature a phoen with 1% share
<popey> why feature linux with <1% market share âº
<daftykins> i saw someone in a row in front of me on a bus using a windows phone, it looked so unintuitive :>
<daftykins> BBC tech reporting is pretty dire ;/
<dwatkins> Good news, everyone! http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2013/01/ubuntu-gets-1-percent-share-in-steam.html
<popey> âº
<mungbean> i haven't installed it yet
<popey> i have it on two machines, so i am probably not helping the stats
<kvarley> Are those stats counting all installs of Steam on windows, or all active installs?
<popey> mind you I also have it on two windows partitions, cancelling out the benefit
<popey> oh, and two macs
<dwatkins> kvarley: I imagine it's ones which are active/used recently
<dwatkins> they do regular hardware surveys which also check OS version
<kvarley> dwatkins: Ok
<dwatkins> "Steam conducts a monthly survey to collect data about what kinds of computer hardware and software our customers are using."
<kvarley> 1% share and it's still in beta :)
<dwatkins> from the linked article :)
<dwatkins> indeed, kvarley - this makes me wonder what the true figure in terms of Ubuntu penetration is in the desktop market
<popey> "tens of millions"
<dwatkins> if this is 'home users who installed the Steam beta who have a reasonably fast PC', the true number of users must be quite a lot, perhaps the same percentage of overall users, perhaps more
<directhex> daftykins, android is hardly a pinnacle of intuitive behaviour. although webos won on that :p
<popey> Android makes me cry too
<daubers> I liked WebOS
<daubers> just a shame the hardware sucked a bit
<directhex> i'd love to recommend a free software smartphone platform to people. i would. but i'm a realist, and like things to stand on their merits. android's merits are "cheap" and "lots of apps"
<kvarley> popey: Steam Linux has tens of millions of users or Ubuntu?
<directhex> so the steam hardware survey is based upon recent active users. as it happens, we know how many people are using steam at any given moment
<directhex> i.e. 3.6 million right now
<directhex> it cycles through the day
<directhex> from about 3.2 million on a monday morning when most pc-gamer regions are asleep, to 6.7 million when america is on the weekend
<directhex> so ubuntu's 1% of steam is 1% of that
<directhex> although, of course, this is comparing simultaneous current users to monthly active users, which are different measures
<directhex> but it's still a reasonable approximation to say "there are tens of thousands of people using steam on ubuntu right now"
<daftykins> directhex: guess that's why they had to take some of webOS' ideas :>
<daftykins> android feels more natural to me than iOS at least :D
<popey> kvarley: ubuntu
<kvarley> popey: :)
<directhex> good artists borrow; great artists steal
<kvarley> Would it be bad for me to buy a Chromebook for a relative who wants a cheap laptop with the sole intention of putting Ubuntu on it?
<popey> what's their use-case?
<kvarley> popey: Web browsing, email, watching TV/Film via Lovefilm Instant, LibreOffice
<mungbean> sounds like they want a cheap laptop
<directhex> using ubuntu for lovefilm?
<kvarley> directhex: Just flash videos
<daftykins> they really got the beans for a full OS and such video sites?
<kvarley> They're currently on xubuntu
<popey> lovefilm requires silverlight
<kvarley> Have been for ~5 years
<kvarley> popey: They changed it?
<directhex> lovefilm requires silverlight and playready drm
<kvarley> Used to be flash I thought
<kvarley> Lame
<directhex> yeah, it was flash before, what, january 2011?
<kvarley> Haven't used it in a long time lol
<kvarley> No html5 love yet from streaming sites
<dwatkins> I thought HTML5 didn't support any kind of DRM
<dwatkins> (which kind of seems a bit silly to me, since it means companies like Lovefilm will have to continue to use Silverlight)
<kvarley> dwatkins: They don't need DRM
<directhex> there was a DRM proposal for html5 video
<kvarley> They just think they do because of their outdated and ridiculous business model
<dwatkins> kvarley: agreed, although that's a separate discussion ;)
<directhex> although ultimately the <video> tag does not specify any codecs or anything, so you could just use copy-protected WMV files in a <video>
<kvarley> dwatkins: True :)
 * dwatkins imagines books being sold with a padlock on them
<kvarley> directhex: I'd hurt them, breaking standards
<popey> anyway, no, no lovefilm on chromeos or ubuntu
<directhex> it's not breaking standards. the standard does not specify a codec.
<kvarley> popey: Back to the drawing board then. Thanks anyway
<popey> why lovefilm on a laptop?
<popey> do they travel a lot?
<dwatkins> personally I think not supporting linux is rude and shortsighted, but I understand it from a business perspective - less than 2% of desktop users probably use linux
<diplo> there was a petition type thing on their developer forums
<directhex> lovefilm don't get any choice here.
<diplo> Lots of people want to integrate into things like xbmc
<directhex> the use of silverlight/playready is mandated by the studios
<BigRedS> None of my window buttons (close, minimise etc.) are working, and nor is alt-tab but I'd really rather not log out and back in again 'cause I've a long-running process I don't want to restart
<directhex> who have been paid off by MS to believe that it's the only way to keep their media "safe"
<kvarley> We're back to hollywood being backward
<BigRedS> is there something I can run/restart that might help?
<BigRedS> this is Unity
<popey> ooh
<popey> alt+f2, unity, enter
<popey> ?
<BigRedS> yeah, did that, it redrew everything and came back the same
<dwatkins> kvarley: the music industry is probably paranoid they'll lose their profits to a Napster-a-like
<dwatkins> so the film industry follows suit
<kvarley> dwatkins: The music industry are getting semi-sane, you can buy DRM free stuff now
<BigRedS> it's on 13.04 as whatever apt gave me on friday
<dwatkins> ooh neat
<BigRedS> Ah, wait, process is actually on a different host
<kvarley> dwatkins: The film industry is just backwards. They need to make it easier as a customer to buy their films digitally worldwide in a DRM free format that compares to the pirated version of that content otherwise the piracy problem will just carry on and they'll annoy all their paying customers.
<dwatkins> kvarley: indeed, and they need to do away with this 'staged release' model, so we can talk about films across the world without the issue that people will have to wait months to see them legally\
<directhex> the music industry were forced to change, by consumer backlash
<directhex> video hasn't had that same backlash
<dwatkins> true, just lots of piracy
<dwatkins> there's a rather insightful TheOatmeal cartoon about all this: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
<directhex> they don't care about piracy, not really
<directhex> they care about market control
<kvarley> What's even more annoying is they over charge for bad quality over sized video files riddled with DRM.
<dwatkins> kvarley: I noticed the new Disney film (Wreck-it Ralph) being touted as available online, but only if you actually buy the disc.
<kvarley> dwatkins: Yeah...stupid.
<directhex> dwatkins, ah, but it gets better
<kvarley> If you're going to buy the disc you aren't going to watch it online. And if you want to watch it online you sure aren't gonna buy the disc.
<kvarley> Are discs still shipping with ads you can't skip?
<diplo> yep
<directhex> Wreck It Wralph comes out on region A blu-ray on march 5th. it doesn't come out in the cinema in the UK until february 8th. region B blu-ray will be 4-5 months after that
<AlanBell> that annoys me, particularly on kids films
<directhex> why?
<directhex> because screw you, english people!
<kvarley> do they have to wait to get permissions to distribute it in different regions or something?
<kvarley> or is it just them being lazy
<directhex> (actually not the reason. the reasons are twofold - to ensure the film is released in time for the main relevant school holidays: thanksgiving in the UK, and half term in the UK)
<AlanBell> they want to milk one market completely before moving on to the next
<directhex> (second reason: so they can recycle the english language discs across every country)
<directhex> i.e. send reel to US cinemas, then once it stops being shown in the US, send to next english-speaking country
<directhex> repeat ad infinitum
<daftykins> more convenient to run illegal rips than buy legit BDs and sit and wait for loading :>
<kvarley> daftykins: That's their problem right there
<directhex> BD load times are crazy, but i'm sick of the low quality of rips compared to BD
<kvarley> They're so focussed on controlling their media to stop the so called piracy wars they make it worse
<directhex> no your 720p mkv isn't blu-ray quality. go away.
<daftykins> why 720p 0o
<kvarley> directhex: Surely that depends massively on whoever make the mkv.
<daftykins> i doubt there's much diff
<directhex> daftykins, i guess because pirates want to save disk space. dunno. 720p seems to be the norm for movie rips these days
<directhex> whereas a full blu-ray rip should be 20-40GB for one movie
<daftykins> i get everything 1080, not that my TV is even that res :D
<daftykins> no that's only when you have like 4 audio tracks
<directhex> i strip the audio tracks.
<directhex> down to 5.1
<directhex> english only
<directhex> let me boot my desktop, it's got my rips on
<kvarley> directhex: Don't forget the media industry suck at encoding so their 40GB rip can be brought down in size by a proper encoding method.
<daftykins> then there's sometimes DD, DTS, then the HD formats
<directhex> kvarley, transcoding lossy->lossy isn't a great plan though, something is always lost from that
<kvarley> Yes, but you will barely notice if it's done right.
<dwatkins> directhex: sorry, was elsewhere, yeah, crazy release times
<kvarley> You could say the same about cinema reel -> bluray
<daftykins> if reel is still alive :)
<directhex> reels are somewhat higher quality than blu-ray
<directhex> and yeah, "reel" is an anachronism. they actually send hard disks around
<kvarley> directhex: they're way higher quality than blurays
<kvarley> Camera equipment that they use can do way higher resolutions
<popey> timely... https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/288199968932630528
<kvarley> popey: I retweeted that this morn :)
<dwatkins> popey: sounds very much like what I've been hearing people say for years, good to see someone who is in the media spolight (perhaps 'infamous') say it
<kvarley> What's amusing is the movie industry seem to think piracy is about getting content for free. For the minority of users it might be. But for the majority it's simply them getting a better service by not paying for content.
<kvarley> Services like Netflix are starting to get the idea, but they're not quite there yet
<dwatkins> kvarley: indeed, when it's infinitely easier to get something by torrenting it, this doesn't surprise me that so many people do - for music, iTunes makes it so easy to buy that people don't bother torrenting it anywhere near as much, from what I can tell
<popey> s/torrent/usenet/
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, that too
<directhex> wreck it wralph is apparently "only" in 2K.
<kvarley> popey: I hate to be a noob. But what is that notation, I've seen it before but have no idea what it is
<popey> search and replace
<kvarley> popey: Ah ok
<directhex> regular expression search & replace
<kvarley> Anybody know where virtualbox logs are stored?
<directhex> ~/.VirtualBox ?
<kvarley> Thanks :)
<popey> http://imgur.com/gallery/LGjXM
<popey> gosh, never knew that
<daftykins> heh
<Laney> yeah they sell presentation packs with the coins arranged in that wa y
<daftykins> pound coin doesn't get a look-in
<daftykins> so glad we have pound notes down here
<daftykins> your money is ridiculous :>
<daftykins> Â£20 notes are nice though
<directhex> oh, here we go
<daftykins> no no, i'm done :>
<directhex> so, my smallest blu-ray rip: 11G	A Scanner Darkly [HD].mkv
<daftykins> oic
<directhex> and largest: 37G	Watchmen [HD].mkv
<daftykins> hrmm
<diplo> popey: I didn't no that either
<daftykins> how many audio tracks in Watchmen?
<directhex> i told you, i stripped all of these
<directhex> so one. english, 5.1
<daftykins> oh i thought you'd dump 1:1 then prune
<directhex>     Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264 (High), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 23.98 fps, 23.98 tbr, 1k tbn, 47.95 tbc (default)
<directhex>     Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 640 kb/s (default)
<daftykins> you not got a DTS or better capable receiver?
<directhex> hang on, i think that movie only had ac3 or wav
<directhex> box just says dolby
<daftykins> shocking
<directhex> big file may be related to 3 hour movie
<ali1234> has anyone seen the total recall remake?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> i have a dvd player that seems to be able to skip a larger portion of things that my other dvd player can't
<diplo> Yep
<daftykins> i've yet to ever get around to making the HTPC playback at 24fps to avoid the frame insertion
<ali1234> in the trailer he had once of those suits like keanu has in a scanner darkly
<ali1234> a face scrambler
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> i thought that was cool
<daftykins> i liked that idea
<ali1234> i'm sure one of the scrambled faces is keanu as well
<directhex> i haven't gotten around to watching a scanner darkly yet
<ali1234> other than that, the remake looks bad
<directhex> it was my first blu-ray too :<
<daftykins> in fact i'd quite like to see that film again in a decent quality
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> watch it, it's good
<ali1234> robert downey jr is good in it
<directhex> pfft, sod the remake
<directhex> 18G	Total Recall [HD].mkv
<daftykins> i watched Dredd the other day, terrible imo =/
<popey> Yeah, A Scanner Darkly is an enjoyable film
<directhex> i also have the original dawn of the dead in here
<ali1234> you didn't accidentaly watch the stallone one did you?
<popey> \o/ zombie mall
<diplo> I've not heard of Scannwr Darkly?
 * diplo googles
<diplo> or Imdb's
<directhex> philip k dick adaptation
<diplo> directhex: What do you use to play yours ?
<daftykins> i just finished reading P K Dick's 'Do Androids...'
<daftykins> far more interesting than Blade Runner, which was still great
<directhex> diplo, my what?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<daftykins> elephants of course
<diplo> Sorry, play the films ?
<daftykins> hai brobostigon o/
<brobostigon> hi daftykins o/
<directhex> diplo, VLC is fine for every rip except for one
<diplo> Looks odd ( Scanner Darkly )
<diplo> I use xbmc, all files are stored in a hp microserver
<directhex> i can actually stream from pc to tv with dnla
<directhex> it plays mkv fine
<directhex> but it uses less power to just put the disc in the ps3 than have pc on
<daftykins> a fair point, i started thinking of power consumption ahead of moving out
<bashrc> scanner darkly is a classic movie
<daftykins> too recent to be classic :>
<bashrc> I have a few DVDs, but I've never tried to rip them.  What's the best software to do it with?
<dwatkins> my Raspberry Pi plays MVK files off a netbook/server rather nicely
<directhex> makemkv is a spectacular ripping app, if you don't want to transcode
<directhex> if you want to transcode, use handbrake instead
<directhex> makemkv earns "rips any blu-ray" points
<diplo> One thing I need to buy is a bluray drive for my pc
<dwatkins> diplo: likewise
<daftykins> had someone in the xbmc channels just before saying the r-pi's can't handle full 1080p and surround audio to stereo decode
<directhex> this drive is old... old enough that it reads hd-dvd too
<daftykins> that's game over for me
<dwatkins> daftykins: which is the xbmc channel, just #xbmc?
<bashrc> http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=224
<daftykins> dwatkins: yeah, although there's a -linux sub too
<ali1234> daftykins: it depends on the format
<directhex> daftykins, rpi can do pretty much anything as long as the gpu does it, and nothing if the cpu does it. cpu is an iphone 3g
<dwatkins> neat
<ali1234> it can't do 1080p mpeg2 even if you buy the decoder
<directhex> ali1234, sure. but that's done by the gpu, not the cpu.
<daftykins> incoming postie :O
<ali1234> point being?
<daftykins> if you two met i bet you'd chew each others faces off with pedantry
<directhex> i'm very nice in real life.
<daftykins> i saw you once!
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> though i was but a mere child
 * directhex rips his new kung fu panda BD
<dwatkins> I need a BD reader in my PC, but it's silver, so I don't have many options of which drive to get
<popey> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eea5/
<popey> want
<dwatkins> unless I want an ugly white or black drive
<daftykins> dwatkins: there used to be those coolermaster optical drive accessories that act as faces to cover ugly ones behind
<dwatkins> so many things on that website I want... including the bluetooth headset gloves ;)
<davmor2> Morning all
<dwatkins> daftykins: nice - the only way I've found is to get a slot-loading drive and silver drive holder
<directhex> what brand is the case?
<daftykins> i'd avoid slot loaders like the plague they are
<daftykins> how else will i use my heart shaped CDs!?
<daftykins> ;)
<directhex> wife's PC is red, has a red drive cover pre-fitted
<dwatkins> directhex: it's a Lian Li aluminium case
<directhex> well, that's handy
<daftykins> daym, those used to be all the rage back in the day - and i never knew why
<dwatkins> the stainless steel construction makes the flux capacitor....
<directhex> http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=286&cl_index=2&sc_index=6&ss_index=38&g=f
<dwatkins> ooh nice
<daftykins> :O
<dwatkins> shame they don't have a picture of the silver one, I may have to get that for my existing drive, then
<directhex> like i said, wife has a red drive cover :D
<directhex> wife's case is a lian-li pc-v354r
<dwatkins> awesome, Overclockers UK sell them
<dwatkins> thanks directhex - nice find
 * dwatkins will check the model number later
<daftykins> one i remembered was discontinued sadly :(
<dwatkins> my case has a little flap at the base of the front with USB ports
<dwatkins> they probably redesigned it because the flap broke so easily, for one thing
<daftykins> if i ever 'upgrade' i'd probably upgrade case just to get USB 3 ports =/
<dwatkins> I bought a D-Link 7-port hub for work because my Mac only has 2 USB poerts
<dwatkins> ports even
<dwatkins> really nice hub, has 2 high current ports
<daftykins> bet that has a lovely plasticy feel, good ol' D-Link
<dwatkins> hehe, a little - not so bad though
<directhex> i'd like a new pc. this one's like 4 years old :<
<directhex> can still play most games on ~high though. thanks, home consoles, for keeping PC games held back!
<dwatkins> I recently bought a PC off a friend, it's a quad-core core2duo, and plays all my games fine since installing a 2nd hand AMD 6590
<daftykins> yep then you'd have blown the money on the upgrade and instead you'd be saying 'damn you consoles, why didn't you anchor things!?'
<daftykins> ok you'd never say that, granted
<BigRedS> Blimey. Just found an account on a website that I've had since the year 2000, that's probably the longest I've ever been a member of anything
<daftykins> google'll tell ya
<directhex> apparently i7 920 is still an okay cpu
<directhex> not fab, but okay
 * daubers is about to buy an i5 3570k
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/QLF0h.gif?1
<daftykins> this, this amuses me
<dwatkins> just the cpu, daubers?
<dwatkins> daftykins: hahaha, me too - finally the truth comes out
<daftykins> :D
<daubers> dwatkins: I already have the mobo and PSU, just need SSD, RAM, CPU
<daftykins> dwatkins: ^5
<daftykins> why buy piece by piece 0o
<daubers> Mobo was a chrombo present
<daftykins> sounds painful
<popey> can't remember the last time I built a PC
<popey> oh, yes I can.. PIII 400MHz
<popey> maybe 12 years ago
<popey> perhaps less
<daftykins> aww, missing all the fun!
<popey> oh no, wikipedia says that's about right
<daftykins> my first PIII kept slipping out of the slot :(
<daftykins> SECC was pretty terrible
<dwatkins> last PC I built was the fastest 32-bit AMD CPU that I could get, iirc a 3200
<dwatkins> this was just when core2duo cpus came out
<daftykins> Athlon64?
<directhex> i've put a few extras in here over time, but it's basically a core i7 920, on socket 1366 (remember that?)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> *pats LGA775*
<daubers> Heh :)
<daftykins> i should go and look at that RAID again today
<daubers> I'm replacing my 2010 Mac Mini, decided to self build so I can slowly improve it
<daftykins> the one with 4 wonky disks
<daubers> heh fun :)
<daftykins> indeed :(
<daftykins> i put replacement disk #1 in, to replace the most bad sector'd one
<daftykins> it still stayed stuck at 15% rebuilt
<daftykins> i enabled ignoreECC
<daubers> not good
<daftykins> not seen the result yet
<daubers> what RAID controller is it?
<daftykins> 9650SE
<daftykins> 3ware
<daubers> oooh.... ok
<daftykins> i saw the light on solid for the other degraded drive next to the one i replaced
<daftykins> i think it's trying to rebuild that as a priority, but it has bad sectors too
<daftykins> i could pull that one out and rebuild to just the newly inserted replacement, but then i'd have two out and be at danger level given it's RAID 6
<daftykins> not sure that's a good idea =/
<daftykins> might be best i pull that one and dd it to a new as you mentioned you've done, but then the controller won't see the drive as rebuilt so it'll still want to do the whole thing again i think
<daubers> Yes, but at least it'll have a running start
<daftykins> true
<daubers> tbh I'd clone all the drives to images so you have a fallback position
<daftykins> haha i don't have the storage to put them on
<daubers> Heh :) I've not had that problem
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> best i've done is document my actions
<daftykins> right, best spruce myself up and consider heading there
<daftykins> if it's sat stuck at 15% again i don't even know what i'll do next
<daftykins> i don't really expect it will be though
<daubers> Good luck!
<daftykins> ty :)
 * daftykins heads off
<ali1234> has anyone actually seen an ARM server in the wild yet?
<SuperMatt> not yet
<AlanBell> not counting raspberry pi, no
<bigcalm> I'll serve YOUR arm
<bigcalm> Oh, wrong channel
<popey> .55
<popey> bah
<kvarley> AlanBell: Phoronix benchmarked a cluster setup of beagleboard or pandaboards. Whether it actually went on to be used as I server I don't know
<popey> there's "proper" servers on the way, the calxeda ones are on trial I believe
<popey> AlanBell: saw this and thought of you http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/things-learned-pretending-to-be-blind-for-a-week/
<AlanBell> interesting article
<kvarley> Every web dev should be trying their production sites with a screen reader with their monitor off
<kvarley> Maybe that way we'd have less "click here" links
<AlanBell> and unity dev :)
<kvarley> AlanBell: That too :)
<AlanBell> I want to try orca on the phone
<AlanBell> popey: do you know if anyone has thought about accessibility for the phone
<kvarley> If they haven't I will be shocked
<kvarley> Accessibility covers so many things tho
<kvarley> You could say that the launcher setup is accessibility concerned
<AlanBell> oh I know that, I just want to know if the design spec includes speech dispatcher and the at-spi stuff for Qt/QML
<AlanBell> and if anyone has tried it
<kvarley> popey: Is orca the best Linux screen reading software? are there any purely HTML ones (addons for browsers , etc) ?
<AlanBell> orca is the screen reader for gnome, there is chromevox for chrome
<AlanBell> but that won't help you get around the desktop
<AlanBell> orca tells espeak what to say, but orca can be plugged into other speech synths
<kvarley> AlanBell: That's an interesting point, I was assuming as a web dev the screen reader would read html sourcecode but that might not be the cas
<kvarley> *case
<AlanBell> no, it navigates the visual elements
<AlanBell> try it
<kvarley> That's interesting alt + tab works but on pidgin it won't then read out the title of each window
<popey> i dont know AlanBell
<kvarley> That's bad, can't get it to read text on a web page just the links via tab
<AlanBell> there are lots of keybindings for orca
<AlanBell> the insert key or capslock key becomes the "orca modifier"
<AlanBell> do you have a keyboard with a number pad?
<kvarley> Yeah
<kvarley> It's reading your messages out which is nice
<AlanBell> ok, then insert is your modifier
<AlanBell> and 789 do lines
<bigcalm> How does one check if a package has been installed via a PPA or not?
<kvarley> bigcalm: Synaptic, search, filter isntalled, origin PPA of whatever
<AlanBell> 465 do words and 123 do letters in flat review mode - basically that gives you a separate "reading" cursor position to your writing caret position
<AlanBell> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/2.32/orca-desktop-keys.html.en
<bigcalm> Ah, seems I am using a PPA. Shame it hasn't been updated :(
<bigcalm> Not since April. Might be missing some features on this package
<mungbean> anyone tried geary email client?
<kvarley> AlanBell: I always had respect for people who are visually impaired. But the fact that they are able to navigate these tools quickly and efficiently is a skill.
<dwatkins> kvarley / directhex / daftykins / popey - just encountered this link relevant to our earlier discussion: http://falkvinge.net/2013/01/07/is-the-copyright-industry-really-shooting-itself-in-the-foot/
<diplo> Pretty much how i see it as well dwatkins, not sure how much longer they'll sustain it though
<czajkowski> aloha
<ali1234> i wonder if falkvinge still has his $30 bitcoins
<mungbean> is mkfile still a real command?
<SuperMatt> mkfile?
<SuperMatt> does to create an empty file?
<mungbean> yes
<SuperMatt> touch
<mungbean> to create a 4GB file?
<SuperMatt> uhm
<mungbean> dd
<SuperMatt> I see what you mean
<mungbean> maybe mkfile is a throwback to my solaris days
<SuperMatt> dd if=/dev/zero of=/path/to/your/file bs=1G count=4
<mungbean> yeah, bit lame eh?
<popey> truncate -s 4G /path/to/your/file
<popey> or fallocate
<SuperMatt> looks like mkfile doesn't exist
<SuperMatt> why does fallocate sound like a rude word to me?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: because you have a filthy mind :P
<SuperMatt> ah yes, that old chestnut
<davmor2> your mind is an old chestnut.....That might do it too
 * SuperMatt dribbles on the desk
<mungbean> my machine locked up for the entire dd operation
<mungbean> is that right?
<SuperMatt> no...
<mungbean> its a fast machine
<mungbean> the mouse hardly moved, and i couldn't click. then got loads of "unrepsonsive script" from chomr/thunderbird
<SuperMatt> hurm
<SuperMatt> well, it would be doing a lot of disk io, so that could explain it
<mungbean> yes but freezing up the machine
<mungbean> happens during large dist-upgrade too
<mungbean> (more i/o)
<mungbean> on diferent linux machines
<mungbean> gonna try the same thing in elementary
<popey> known bug
<mungbean> popey: realyl?
<popey> bug 1030516
<popey> perhaps
<lubotu3> bug 1030516 in linux (Ubuntu) "152d:2338 High IO when writing to USB devices" [High,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1030516
<mungbean> its a local disk
<popey> yes
<mungbean> more like DE freezes during io
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1030516/comments/9
<popey> try that
<popey> yes, that happens
<mungbean> i've switched machines to try to get around this
<popey> maybe try the suggestion from andy in comment 9
<mungbean> i've wondered for a while about schedulers
<mungbean> but nobody else seems to mention the problem
<BigRedS> I've seen a fair bit about I/O schedulers
<BigRedS> recently. Since people have started fiddling with SSDs
<mungbean> the bug expired ,no feedback
<BigRedS> Ah, I meant more with our customers talking to us about them
<mungbean> some guy called popey never responded after "will try next week"
<BigRedS> tsk tsk
<BigRedS> He's always complaining about ubuntu on Launchpad
<BigRedS> :)
<mungbean> using guake for irc is quite useful
<SuperMatt> I just use gnome-terminal
<BigRedS> I use guake for all terminal things
<SuperMatt> phoronix have just put up an article saying that compiz isn't going to see any more updates
<BigRedS> Apart from bug 1058073 it's brilliant
<lubotu3> bug 1058073 in light-themes (Ubuntu) "The currently active tab looks very much like all the inactive ones" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058073
<mungbean> when you have multiple terminals you end up fannying around trying to get right terminal
<mungbean> SuperMatt: did you read about smspillaz leaving canonical
<BigRedS> I just wish it had the screen-splitting abilities of terminator
<SuperMatt> I did, that was a while ago, wasn't it?
<mungbean> up to 1mth ago
<SuperMatt> I'm going to assume that compiz isn't going to be used in the mobile port, which opens the door for a compizless unity
<popey> you could extrapolate that couldn't you.
<popey> would make sense
<mungbean> i wonder if my desktop freeze up is exacerbated in cinnamon
<SuperMatt> are you confirming that this is the case, popey?
<BigRedS> cinnamon? Party like it's 2003
<mungbean> cinnamon has compiz like featuers
<davmor2> BigRedS: will byobu-tmux run under guake if so then you could
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> but screen in screen makes baby Jesus cry
<mungbean> i'm just holding on for elementary
<BigRedS> well, it makes me annoyed, which is similarly bad
<mungbean> then i'm happy
<mungbean> i have unity on my home laptop though
<mungbean> cannot use it 10hrs a day will zillions of windows open
<davmor2> BigRedS: that's why I said byobu-tmux it uses tmux instead of screen :P
<czajkowski> _msm_: boo
<_msm_> czajkowski: o/
<BigRedS> davmor2: yeah, I did try that briefly, screen in tmux. But that confused my poor little brain
<BigRedS> Might try again, but harder this time
<davmor2> BigRedS: well instead of using screen use byobu-tmux or byobu and then you get all the screen spliting :D
<BigRedS>  yeah, screen has screen-splitting, too
<BigRedS> as of Squeeze
<BigRedS> and screen's all that's installed on the bastions at work, so that's something I have to use in at least one of the panes
<BigRedS> iirc Tmux keystrokes are basically the same as Screen's but shifted one key to the right or something
<mungbean> what keystrokes does screen have?
<mungbean> ctrl-A is the only one i kow
<AlanBell> F2 to create a new window F3/F4 to move around
<mungbean> ah
<mungbean> i don't have time/mental capacity to become expert in every program anymore :(
<mungbean> used to suck it all up like a sponge
<popey> ctrl+a, ?   gives you help
<mungbean> how long would rezise2fs take on a 500gb ext4 partition?
<SuperMatt> gosh, I suppose it depends how full the disk is and how fragmented it is
<SuperMatt> that is, if you only had one tiny text file on there at the beginning of the drive, not long at all
<mungbean> think i might spin up vmware player instead
<SuperMatt> but if you've had that disk for a long time, chances are there are bits of file all over the place, and someone has to tidy that mess
<mungbean> only using 40gb
<mungbean> but its my OS
<SuperMatt> the first thing I do is partition my drive so that I have 50GB put aside for OS, and the rest is my /home
<popey> why?
<mungbean> separated /home is useful for upgrading i agree
<mungbean> unsure why i didn't on this box
<SuperMatt> popey: upgrading
<SuperMatt> from time to time I like to just wipe the OS partition to get rid of everything
<SuperMatt> I wish Windows could do the same
<popey> upgrading what?
<popey> you can just install over the top
 * popey has been telling people this for 2 years now
<popey> hey ho
<SuperMatt> I know ;)
<SuperMatt> but it's just a habbit
<mungbean> and trust
<mungbean> if the partition isn't mounted then the installer can't shag it
<SuperMatt> I just like to know the installer is doing what I want it to do
<mungbean> especially if you installing a beta
<popey> weirdos
<mungbean> even memtest shafted me the other day
<mungbean> i nearly thrrew away a good laptop
<SuperMatt> I also install other OSes often, and I like them to point to the same /home
<SuperMatt> on my laptop though, /home is on the same partition
<BigRedS> popey: there does seem to be a fashion for making upgrades as convoluted as reasonably practical
<BigRedS> s/practical/possible/
<BigRedS> and then grumbling that they've gone wrong.
<popey> indeed
<popey> I just press the button
<DJones> Heh, an RMS interview were he doesn't comment about "ubuntu spyware" :) http://features.slashdot.org/story/13/01/06/163248/richard-stallman-answers-your-questions
<SuperMatt> but does he eat the skin from the sole of his foot?
<DJones> Thats still a disgusting thought
<SuperMatt> did you see the video?
<DJones> Thankfully no, I didn't need the eyebleach
<SuperMatt> I had to rewind it because I just couldn't believe what I saw
<DJones> Couldn't believe or just didn't want to believe :)
<mungbean> its understandable
<mungbean> he seems the sort of person who would do it at home
<mungbean> the way his brain works means that he doesn't consider if it is socially acceptable to do that
<SuperMatt> is he autistic or something?
<mungbean> IMO he most certainly is on the autistic spectrum
<popey> Without a doubt.
<mungbean> ticks a lot of aspie boxes for me
<mungbean> which means that when you understand the way he acts, he's pretty predictable.
<SuperMatt> I've found him predictable for a long time
<mungbean> often he's not doing things cos he's a jerk, it just looks like it
<SuperMatt> oh of course
<SuperMatt> I kinda feel that stallman is losing his relevancy
<mungbean> never heard his talks but i expect they are still the same sort of thing
<mungbean> he is a necessary extreme
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/11/the-software-freedomometer/ he is at the end of the freedomometer
<popey> hah
<SuperMatt> heh, I like that ballmer is at one end
<SuperMatt> I would have put bill gates closer to the middle
<SuperMatt> ms was so much better under gates
<mungbean> jobs should be at the end
<SuperMatt> true, true
<AlanBell> it was a discussion starter from 4 years ago :)
<ali1234> yeah i just added ballmer: https://github.com/ali1234/jono-qml
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: developers, developers?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> RMS next i think
<ali1234> but i can't decide what one word to make him say
<ali1234> but probably "freedom"
<ali1234> and probably samples from braveheart, for the lulz
<MartijnVdS> sabdfl saying 'Ubuntu'?
<popey> ali1234: open source
<popey> âº
<ali1234> that's two words
<ali1234> and he calls it free software
<popey> i know âº
<popey> thats the point
<popey> but yes, "freedom" woudl be better
<ali1234> linus saying linux
<ali1234> i know there's at least one sample of that
<ali1234> but there's got to be millions
<popey> stuart langridge saying "wrong!"
<ali1234> or me
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> "Hiya!"
<ali1234> meh. it's easy to add people now, cos i made it a component
<ali1234> just put the samples and two images into the assets folder
<ali1234> and then add it to the ListView
<ali1234> i still have no idea where to even start with packaging it
<popey> ask mhall119?
<popey> he knows these things
<MartijnVdS> HE KNOWS
<MartijnVdS> HÌÍÍ¤ÍÌÒÌÍÌÌ¼Ì­EÍ¥ÍÍÌÍÍÌÌÌ¦Ì£Ì°Ì¹Ì¤ ÌÍÌÌÌÌÌÍÌÍÌ±ÌKÌ¾ÌÌÍ¬ÌÍ¯ÌÍÌ·ÍÌÌ¤Ì¬ÍÍÍÌÌNÌÌÍÌÌÍÌ¿ÍÍÌÌÌºOÍÌÍ©ÌÍ£ÍÍÌÍÌÌ¬ÍÌ¹ÍÌ²ÍWÌÌÌÌ·Ì¯SÌÌÍ¤ÍÍÌ§Ì£
<MartijnVdS> that.. didn't work as expected :)
<MartijnVdS>  HÌÍÍ¤ÍÌÒÌÍÌÌ¼EÍ¥ÍÍÌÍÍÌÌÌ¦Ì£ ÌÍÌÌÌÌÌÍÌÍKÌ¾ÌÌÍ¬ÌÍ¯ÌÍÌ·ÍNÌÌÍÌÌÍÌ¿ÍÍÌOÍÌÍ©ÌÍ£ÍÍÌÍÌWÌÌÌÌ·Ì¯SÌÌÍ¤ÍÍÌ§Ì£
<MartijnVdS> *grr*
<Laney> heh
<Laney> what are you doing to my client?
<jacobw> hmm
<bigcalm> Evening all
<popey> pip pip
<jacobw> toodle doo popey
 * Laney got Rum, Sodomy & the Lash for a quid at the weekend
<Laney> for me new record player. quality stuff
<Azelphur> pretty much finished TV setup, Ubuntu makes a damned good TV :P https://www.dropbox.com/s/qk32bou4vk7xd6s/2013-01-07%2020.58.32.jpg
<popey> looks sweet
<Azelphur> ty :)
<Azelphur> I've got a NFC tag on the coffee table too, it sends you to http://tv which is a little PHP script that detects your OS
<Azelphur> if your on android, first time you scan it it sends you to the android market to install yatse, every time after that it opens yatse for you and connects it to the TV
<Azelphur> if your on iPhone, sends you to iTunes for XBMC Official remote, if your on anything else it just throws you at the web panel
<Azelphur> so I basically sit down and touch my phone to the coffee table and the remote is all ready to go :D
<ubuntubhoy> Other than wifi passwords, that's one of the first uses of NFC that makes sense to me Azelphur
<Azelphur> ubuntubhoy: what about payments? ;)
<ubuntubhoy> Once it becomes more widespread
<ubuntubhoy> have you seen some of the looks you get in Greggs paying with your phone
<ubuntubhoy> and that's just the staff
<Azelphur> I want to pay with my phone, but I havn't found a way to do it yet
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> afaik the only way to do it in UK at all is with galaxy s3 on orange with barclays
<Azelphur> any other combo and nope
<ubuntubhoy> if you got in quick enough
<ubuntubhoy> modaco had a cracked APK
<ubuntubhoy> and you could setup via proxy
<Azelphur> yea, I think I missed that
<Azelphur> :(
<ubuntubhoy> but iirc that loophole os closed
<ubuntubhoy> is*
<Azelphur> sucks that it's just politics getting in the way of us having nice things
<Azelphur> I tell you what I want to do, which would be hilarious if I could do it
<ubuntubhoy> just think if the i5 had had an NFC chip it would be trickling down everywhere now
<Azelphur> I know credit cards use rotating keys and stuff, but apparently you can scan your card and clone it for one time use
<Azelphur> so I'm thinking it'd be hilarious to clone my card onto a hidden NFC sticker inside my sleeve or something
<ubuntubhoy> really ?
<Azelphur> and then "pay with the force"
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> only thing I have really used the NFC for is Android beam
<ubuntubhoy> and even then only to see how it worked
<Azelphur> yea I havn't used android nfc beam for much, I did use it to troll my friend who was trying to play games by continually opening annoying webpages on his device xD
<ubuntubhoy> haha
<Azelphur> but yea, currently I have a wifi poster and a control the TV
<Azelphur> next I think I'll do lock/unlock my PC
<Azelphur> (and set status away, turn screens off, etc)
<ubuntubhoy> been able to do that with bluetooth for ages now
<Azelphur> yea, I found that to be a little finicky
<directhex> i used nfc! it's how you unlock extra levels in angry birds magic for nokia n9
<Azelphur> I used a QR code today too, went in tescos and they had a "scan this QR code to look at the rest of our range"
<ubuntubhoy> not seen that either yet
<ubuntubhoy> probably been there but I have never noticed
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-08
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning all
<mungbean> guys, how do i close a irssi PM window?
<popey> mungbean: /wc
<popey> I very very nearly typed /wc in here âº
<mungbean> :P
<Seeker`> popey: What is the key combination to close an application window?
<mungbean> ta popey
<czajkowski> mungbean: top stop me closing windows by accident I do turn on immortal windows
<mungbean> ooh vmware tools has magic driver-free printing
<mungbean> just noticed
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<Seeker`> hallo
<popey> pip pip
 * popey wonders if AlanBell will write up his webcam fun sometime
<popey> http://guest:guest@popey.mooo.com:81/snapshot.cgi  cat cam!
<diplo> I really must buy one soon!
<diplo> I have the joys of fitting a laptop screen tonight
<diplo> Not done one in about 3-4 years if not more
<diplo> fun fun
<dwatkins> I put my laptop into the car a little too casually once, cracked the screen due to it hitting the floor of the car too hard.
<diplo> Watched a few vids, seems simple enough ( he hopes )
<dwatkins> what kind of laptop, diplo/
<dwatkins> ? even
<diplo> Sony Vaio
<dwatkins> hopefully won't be too troublesome
<diplo> Seems it should be 4 screws on the front, 4 on the sides once the cover is off and 2 cables
<diplo> Swap out and new one back in ( as long as I got the right one! )
<diplo> :P
<dwatkins> I had the display on my Eee replaced (dead pixels upon delivery when it was new) and the repair person gave me a present of a small hair just in the centre of the top part of the screen.
<diplo> heh
<mungbean> which eee?
<dwatkins> So long as I don't look at white screens, I don't notice it.
<Seeker`> dwatkins: that was nice of them
<dwatkins> mungbean: this was the 901, I've had several.
<dwatkins> Seeker`: yeah, if I worked in a lab I'd test if for DNA ;)
<mungbean> i have a black spec , 1x1 pixel after replacing the screen on my tablet
<mungbean> 1 spec aint bad considering i did it in the living room with my son running around
<dwatkins> mungbean: bah - I originally sent the Eee back to where I bought it, they refused to repair it, so I sent it to the manufacturer instead
<mungbean> my wife smashed the screen and the broken bits were v difficult to remove
<dwatkins> ah ok, not a manufacturing fault
<mungbean> someone do me a favour and tell me how much memory virt/res xorg is using
<dwatkins> 27008 6388
<dwatkins> I don't use that machine much, though.
<diplo> 140m 122m
<mungbean> top gives  949m 317m
<popey>  1732 root      20   0  304m  28m  11m S    4  0.4  51:24.70 Xorg
<mungbean> diplo: how many screens?
<diplo> 2
<mungbean> why mine so high?
<mungbean> uptime 21days
<diplo> But only booted an hour ago because of power cut last night
<diplo> ^^
<diplo> Mine gets higher the longer it's up
<mungbean> popey: when u booted?
<popey> mungbean: firefox?
<popey>  10:00:16 up 1 day,  1:59,  8 users,  load average: 0.77, 0.86, 0.91
<mungbean> chrome is running, not ff
<diplo> popey: Just a fyi, can't connect to mooo.com
<popey> oh
<diplo> Well the camera specifically
<popey> nvm âº
<diplo> Well, actually... removed snapshot.cgi and it does
<diplo> So incorrect url I guess
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<mungbean> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello mungbean
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> Anyone like to confirm this for me.
<diplo> Scripts in init.d get called and automatically run the start command within it if there ?
<dwatkins> when?
<diplo> On boot
<mungbean> on ubuntu or centos?
<Laney> just got access to my student loan account for the first time ever
<Laney> Â£14,856.33
<diplo> This is Centos but wanting to know generically
<mungbean> centos you need to check chkconfig --list
<diplo> Basically we have a service that really needs to restart to delete a pid file
<czajkowski> Laney: is that good or bad
<diplo> yeah I understand that side, it's the calling of the start/stop/restart script
<Laney> feels like a lot
<diplo> How does it know what to run on start
<Laney> not as much as what the yoof of today get though
<Laney> 9k fees + loan
<Laney> muhahahaha
<Laney> (per year)
<directhex> my student loan outstanding balance is... about Â£150
<Laney> i've only made 4 repayments :(
 * Dave2 stabs directhex a bit with his ~Â£20k :(
<Laney> i think i was the last year before the fees loans
<directhex> the highest my balance ever was was Â£9842
<directhex> nw it's less. damn, i've lost my 2012 statement
<directhex> oh here it is. Â£1648.46 in april 2012
<Laney> can't you get on the website?
<kvarley> Laney: 8k a year for me + maintenance loan
<kvarley> Laney: Only 4 units per year now as well
<Laney> what is a unit?
<directhex> Â£150 a month paid all last year, so apparently Â£300 to pay. if my sums are accurate.
<kvarley> Laney: Essentially a label for the topics they teach you. 12 hours tuition a week.
<Laney> oh, we called those modules
<Laney> directhex: you can input your payments into the website and it works out the interest
<kvarley> Laney: Ah, same thing.
<directhex> Laney, i can't log in. i predate them knowing what an "email address" is so i lack required data for a password reset
 * Laney just called up and had them reset it
<directhex> not much point resetting it for the sake of a couple of weeks :p
<directhex> i'll call them after jan's paycheque has landed
<directhex> the point is to call them up once the coming month's payment is less than the PAYE deduction, and just pay off the balance with visa
<Laney> does that fix having to claim money back?
<directhex> yes.
<Laney> hax
<kvarley> Any footage of Ubuntu at CES 2013 online yet?
<czajkowski> kvarley: https://t.co/k16GQr1b
<czajkowski> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RO7QbCqFY7Y
<davmor2> Morning all
<kvarley>  czajkowski: Thanks :D
<czajkowski> kvarley: or just search #ces on social sites ;)
<kvarley>  czajkowski: Ooops, no idea why I didn't think of that. I asked right after checking Twitter as well *facepalm*
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> kvarley: https://twitter.com/search?q=ces%20ubuntu&src=typd
<kvarley> czajkowski: Thanks :) there goes my productivity for today heh
<mungbean> all the ubuntu phone stuff i've seen at CES is still in portrait mode
<SuperMatt> weeeellll, it's still not a full product
<SuperMatt> I bet there's a Canonical Monkey tapping away at the code as we speak
<SuperMatt> Can we start calling them Canonimonkeys?
<popey> or "developers" as they're usually called
<directhex> xamarin has the monopoly on monkey-themed developers
<DJones> Hmmh, why can't I mount a samba share via fstab, I'm sure I've got the right line in fstab, but I get mount error(6) No such device or address
<mungbean> i also see a lot of unintended operations while demoing the phone
<bigcalm> popey++
<mungbean> not sure if a failing of the UI, or just because early builds
<bigcalm> DJones: do you have cifs installed?
<popey> the latter mungbean
<popey> give us some credit, please
<bigcalm> DJones: are you calling the remote server by name or ip address?
<mungbean> popey, UI design , rather than implementation
<DJones> bigcalm: ip address, just checking for cifs, I've cifs-utils installed
<mungbean> keyboard popping up when trying to switch apps etc
<popey> yeah, early build
<bigcalm> DJones: from my /etc/fstab: //proliant/iain     /media/smb/proliant/iain    cifs    credentials=/home/iain/.smbcredentials,iocharset=utf8,file_mode=0666,dir_mode=0777      0       0
<DJones> bigcalm: fstab line is //192.168.0.25/media/media/Video /media/Media cifs guest,uid=1000,iocharset=utf8,codepage=unicode,unicode  0  0  (as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently)
<bigcalm> Can you get to \\192.168.0.25/media/media/Video in a file browser?
<DJones> I can browse to the share via nautilus
<bigcalm> Oh
<DJones> Although that goes, Browse Network -> Windows Network -> DANCOL -> DANCOLSERVER -> share     Which then shows me 5 folders including Video, on the server itself, its mounted at /media/media/Video
<DJones> ip address is correct
<bigcalm> Does the share have guest access? The file browser might be passing on credentials (shot in the dark)
<DJones> Could be, I'll check
<diplo> I always test when having problems with smbclient and mount on the cli
<DJones> smb.conf has path = /media/media, browsable = yes, guest ok = yes, read only = no, create mask = 0755
<diplo> smbclient -L //path -u ? and display as user ?
<DJones> This doesn't look right http://pastebin.com/daiwy0mw I would have expected the share to give details of folders available
<diplo> dave the user that has access on the smb server ?
<DJones> yes
<diplo> Not used in a while, 2 secs.. will just run on mine to remind me of the output
<DJones> Cheers
<bigcalm> I keep forgetting how many Daves and Davids we have in here :)
<diplo> yeah, defo shows my shares
<DJones> So looks like the problem is on the server then
<diplo> You dumped your config? Bit rusty on samba shares but can take a look
<diplo> I'd say yeah
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: is it more or less than the number of Alans?
<popey> NEED MOAR ALANS
<Dave2> Fewer daves.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: +1
<TheOpenSourcerer> or is it +2
<Seeker`> why do we need more alans?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Coz it's good.
<Seeker`> mmm. not convinced.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: the old kudos method was <name>++
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<DJones> diplo: share section of smb.conf is http://pastebin.com/uXH29nUJ
<diplo> OK, so it is correct
<diplo> So mount -t cifs -o dave //192.168.0.25/share /media/dir
<diplo> ?
<diplo> Or mount -t cifs  //192.168.0.25/share /media/dir username=dave,password=<yourpass> I think will work as well ( been a while on these :P )
<DJones> That works with sudo, I'll change fstab to mount //192.168.0.25/share
<DJones> changing fstab didn't work
<DJones> Got it
<diplo> So you're running mount -a after..
<diplo> Ah. :)
<diplo> Cool
<DJones> Thanks for the help
<directhex> so with all my music loaded on, it's official: iOS is now the most linux-user-hostile smartphone OS, with WP8 leaving behind WP7's worst baggage
<directhex> aquarius may be interested by this
 * aquarius grins
<aquarius> directhex, I have not even tried to connect my phone to my laptop, because I think it will just end in misery and annoyance.
<directhex> i received an SD card today
<directhex> since most WP8 devices have SD card slots, i just copied my music to it. and it worked, no fuss
<directhex> worst i got was a popup asking me if it should switch to saving new photos on the SD rather than the phone
<aquarius> heh. I just use u1 music anyway, on whichever phone I'm on; I don't sync from local storage. So that didn't affect me all that much, although I agree entirely that it's aggressively user-hostile to stop someone syncing if they want ti
<aquarius> *to
<directhex> well MTP-Z also blocked me copying my photos off with wp7. mostly emailed to myself
<aquarius> that mtp-z thing is pretty annoying, indeed
<aquarius> (although, again, photos are copied off with U1 -- the non-existence of U1 on WP was one of the big reasons I didn't look at it very hard)
<directhex> development still requires windows. although that's no different from ios dev needing a mac
<DJones> At least now I've sorted mount point, I can set xbmc up now
<aquarius> indeed; I'd have happily made a U1 app for WP, in the same way I did for the N9, but I can't because I don't have Windows -- I'm exactly the same with iOS, in that I can't develop apps for it. Whether that is a serious problem is something I'm still trying to work out.
<aquarius> It's *conceptually* a problem: I don't like it. Whether it actually affects me or the problem is just theoretical (but still a problem) remains to be seen; answering questions like that is part of the point of the experiment ;)
<aquarius> directhex, what's changed in your opinion from WP7.5 to WP8?
<directhex> aquarius, from an end user perspective? an ubuntu user? visible os changes?
<directhex> as an end user, i can use it 100% from ubuntu, and that's important. no more MTP-Z, no more zune to install updates. it's a real post-PC device, where WP7.5 wasn't
<aquarius> directhex, just... what you think's happened. I don't know much about WP8, because the reasons I didn't choose WP7 have, as far as I'm aware, not changed. That's why I'm asking :)
<aquarius> directhex, can you use it without mtp-z by connecting? or do you have to use the SD card to do that?
<directhex> just treat it as any other MTP device, in nautilus or banshee or rhythmbox or whatever
<directhex> worst you need is an entry in libmtp music-players.h - but most new devices need that. the N9 needed that
<directhex> and it's already in libmtp git (or was a few days ago anyway)
<aquarius> that's fair
<aquarius> how do you get non-music content into apps on the phone? My primary care on this sort of thing is epubs
<directhex> i just transferred a test PDF into the /Documents/ folder - dunno about epub
<directhex> (via nautilus gvfs, not via SD card)
<directhex> i don't think WP7 apps can read from arbitrary folders, so most of the reader apps i'm seeing are asking me to import via skydrive
<directhex> not that folders really exist with MTP. not really. it's complicated.
<awilkins> Anyone know a trustworthy domain registrar who will take a backorder and not betray me by selling the information to another party who will then register it and squeeze me for it?
<awilkins> Ach, never mind, GoDaddy re-registered it
<awilkins> Scum
<awilkins> That's what you get for searching for it on their website
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> that kind of practice should be made illegal
<mungbean> hard to prove that
<awilkins> I searched for it on their site, it was owned by Domains by Proxy LLC the next day
<awilkins> They are a GoDaddy subsidiary
<mungbean> i had a cool domain that i wanted to get but someone else snagged it on expriy day, but could have been anyone
<awilkins> or "affiliate" as they put it
<awilkins> This was not taken initially
<awilkins> But they've sat on it since they registered it Dec 2011
<dwatkins> A friend of mine used her name (.com) as her CV, but it expired because the guy who bought it for 5 years didn't give her access to renew it, so some domain squatting company bought it up, and she had to switch to the .org version of her name.
<awilkins> I had a calendar appointment for when it expired but I didn't know enough about the process
<dwatkins> at least namecheap allowed me to hide my address info on the .org domain
<dwatkins>     Domain Admin        (contact@privacyprotect.org)
<mungbean> so if i want to snag a domain when it expires, what are my chances and best approach?
<dwatkins> you can get some registrars to notify you when one's about to expire, for free iirc
<mungbean> currently owned by domcollect domain snaggers
<mungbean> i know when its expiring
<dwatkins> you might even be able to pay to join the queue to buy a domain as soon as its freed-up
<dwatkins> question is, will they let it expire
<mungbean> seems to be designed to rip people off
<dwatkins> yeah, sadly there's a lot of this with domain names
<mungbean> sedo want Â£1000 for it
<dwatkins> ouch
<dwatkins> chances are they won't get that from anyone, but if they do that for enough domains, eventually someone will pay up, I guess.
<awilkins> I know, and if I get the .co.uk variant of it, the .com variant will no doubt go up in price
<awilkins> Ach, hell, I can live with just being a .co.uk
<dwatkins> get a .eu ;)
<popey> .info!
<popey> .cx :D
<dwatkins> .co.gb!
<awilkins> So, are NameCheap less scummy than GoDaddy?
<dwatkins> I prefer their website, it's less gaudy ;)
<popey> i use gandi
<popey> not scammy at all
<dwatkins> http://www.changeip.com/ have also been reccomended to me, but I can't vouch for them
<dwatkins> i.e. never used them
<awilkins> popey,  I like Gandi just from their front page
<dwatkins> sometimes that's all it takes to win a customer :)
<mungbean> no pics of that danica girl
<awilkins> I think they had me at "write your own zone file"
<awilkins> Not that I know how to
<awilkins> But I sort of know what one is
<dwatkins> turns out you can't register under .gb any more
<awilkins> And that someone who makes a point of saying "hey, geeks, you can control things right down to the bare metal" is probably more useful than someone who says "Hey! Domains! Pew pew!"
<popey> it has a template
<mungbean> bit of a rude slogan tho
<neuro> nominet consultation ends today on creating SLD registrations under .uk
<neuro> general consensus from UK internet types is "no, bad"
<popey> scot.uk âº
<awilkins> Where the hell is .sx
<dwatkins> glad to hear that they won't be doing that, neuro - keep it simple, imho
<neuro> dwatkins: nominet may just press on and do it anyway
<dwatkins> neuro: hmmm, I don't see any reason to, but perhaps there's something I don't know
<mungbean> Sint Maarten (located in the northeastern Caribbean)
<awilkins> My domain only taken in four TLDs. One being .com (*grr* GoDaddy scumballs)
<neuro> awilkins: install isoqueryroot@defiant:~# isoquery sx
<neuro> SX	SXM	702	Sint Maarten (Dutch part)
<awilkins> One being an EE nation (cyrillic letters) one being China (well, chinese characters TLD)
<neuro> oops, missing new line there
<neuro> install isoquery:
<neuro> root@defiant:~# isoquery sx
<neuro> SX	SXM	702	Sint Maarten (Dutch part)
<neuro> (replacement for old countrycodes package)
<neuro> dwatkins: there is a reason: cashgrab
<neuro> and snuggling up to the copyright people
<dwatkins> neuro: ah yes, how naive of me ;)
<neuro> the proposal has a 'registered trademark holder' sunrise
<neuro> then a 'non-trademark holder' sunrise
<neuro> like, thanks
<awilkins> .eu is on sale
<neuro> what, the whole region?
<awilkins> Â£1.50 for a year. Or Â£20 for 2 ;-S
<mungbean> eu is a bit of a skank
<dwatkins> I've only ever seen one domain within .eu
<mungbean> an eu expired and it cost Â£25 to get out of suspended mode
<mungbean> we still owned it, but had to pay an admininstrative fee
<neuro> dwatkins: http://europa.eu/index_en.htm
<awilkins> Hah, 10 years of .co.uk for Â£30
<awilkins> Bargain
<neuro> um, wat
<mungbean> who with?
<neuro> that's < cost
<awilkins> Gandi (ex tax)
<awilkins> So 30 * 1.2 == Â£36 with VAT
<awilkins> Â£4 a year or Â£3 a year for more than 1 year
<awilkins> + VAT
<awilkins> .eu is Â£85 for 10 years
<awilkins> Not so bargain
<neuro> oh actually
<neuro> just checked the pricing
<mungbean> why .co.uk so cheap?
<awilkins> What's cost then?
<neuro> 10 yrs is Â£30 incl VAT
<SuperMatt> I'm interested to know why TLDs don't have a flat cost
<neuro> so gandi are still making 6 quid profit off you
<neuro> SuperMatt: they do
<mungbean> awww thin.gy has gone
<awilkins> 6 quid for 10 years work doesn't seem an atrocious profit
<neuro> SuperMatt: it's just that competition is fierce amongst registrars, so some charge more than cost, some less
<SuperMatt> ah, gotcha
<awilkins> More like Â£5 mius the VAT
<neuro> SuperMatt: each TLD operator sets its own pricing for registrars
<Neoti_Desktop> Does anyone in here use DDWRT, i would like to have 4 WAN and 1 LAN, all i want is for DDWRT to route between all 5 subnets. simples.
<neuro> e.g. nominet charge members (usually registrars) Â£4.20 incl VAT for 1 yr co.uk
<SuperMatt> oh no, I meant that a co.uk should be the same as a .com or a .eu
<neuro> whereas if you went directly to nominet as a customer, a co.uk for 2 yrs would cost you Â£96 incl VAT
<neuro> SuperMatt: oh right
<neuro> well given that every TLD and ccTLD is operated by different companies ...
<awilkins> And 15% off for mor ethan 3 years registration, apparently
<awilkins> Wooty woo
 * neuro wonders how much he is charging for co.uk ...
 * neuro checks
<SuperMatt> I'm getting my domains from streamlinenet.co.uk
<SuperMatt> I don't really care about getting any deals
<SuperMatt> they're offered me good support when I've needed it, so whatevs.
 * neuro buys domains from himself
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: do they have a 'hide my address and contact info' option?
<mungbean> i don't own any domains
<SuperMatt> I believe they do
<SuperMatt> want me to check
<dwatkins> just curious, no rush :)
<mungbean> don't see the point when i have work servesr to run irssi and owncloud on
<neuro> hmm, seems i'm selling co.uk for 2 yrs for $14
<neuro> which is about Â£8.69
<SuperMatt> yup, I can protect my identity over at streamlinenet
<SuperMatt> crikey, I have a lot of domains
<mungbean> what for?
<SuperMatt> just because
<neuro> SuperMatt: go on, how many?
<mungbean> you like spending money?
<SuperMatt> I have a project in mind, and then fail to get it off the ground
<SuperMatt> 11
<neuro> bah
<neuro> i have 10
<neuro> plus another blah blah on top that aren't actually mine
<neuro> <- opensrs reseller
<neuro> SuperMatt: so what's your oldest domain?
<SuperMatt> supermatt.net
<neuro> 2006? acht, youngster :)
<SuperMatt> hah
<neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ whois zensoft.co.uk | grep "Registered on:"
<neuro>         Registered on: 28-Aug-1998
<SuperMatt> nice domain
<neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ whois zensoft.net | grep "Record created on"
<neuro>  Record created on 25-Oct-1999.
<neuro> that's my two oldest ones
<neuro> you're using route53?
<neuro> how are you finding it?
<SuperMatt> it's great
<awilkins> I like that the "Resell your data?" radio defaults to "No"
<SuperMatt> I pay something like 50p a month for each zone
<SuperMatt> which compared to other places is damn cheap
 * Hornet- sets fire to neuro
<neuro> i run three nameservers (london, france, canada) and i'm always tempted to just ditch them by automating stuff out to aws
<neuro> Hornet: um, ok?
<Hornet> <neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neu
<Hornet> pings everywhere
<SuperMatt> I do all my stuff through aws these days
<neuro> Hornet: haha
<neuro> unlucky
<SuperMatt> yeah, I have matt on hilight, and that goes off all the time
<neuro> my hostnames are starships from star trek
<SuperMatt> I just run my website/shell from aws. I could use a managed solution for cheap, but it means I don't have control, and I like my control
<neuro> USS Hornet, NCC-45231, Renaissance class (seen in TNG ep Redemption part 2)
<neuro> i tried briefly running ubuntu instances for nameservers
<neuro> it cost like 20 dollars a month
<neuro> chucked it in
<Hornet> lol
<SuperMatt> my computers are called Bruce, Babs, Tim, PeeGee
<SuperMatt> well, I like aws. As long as I don't get too many zones, I'll keep using it
<neuro> mine are enterprise, challenger, columbia, saratoga, hathaway, cochrane, majestic, grissom, hornet (sorry Hornet), excelsior, melbourne, intrepid, defiant, valiant, ulysses, phoenix ...
 * neuro just manages zones on a local system here then pushes updates out over rsync+ssh
 * neuro can actually read BIND zones, so it isn't that bad
<mungbean> can i search the gas safe register for a name rather than company? can't see how
<awilkins> I use characters from anime
<awilkins> Motoko, Aramaki, Totoro, Ryo-Oki
<neuro> ooooh, hyphens
<awilkins> Not like it's on a public domain
<Hornet> heh
<neuro> mine are
<neuro> and i realise i've just blabbed a ton of hostnames
<awilkins> Oh, and one Final Fantasy character, my HTPC server is aeris
<neuro> so 1 + 1 and you can get my private IPs
<neuro> not that it'll do you much good :)
<Hornet> old-school gamer detected
<SuperMatt> one thing I don't understand, is why more places don't make up a tld for their internal domain
<Hornet> all the new translations use 'aerith'
<Hornet> which can fuck right off
<SuperMatt> when I'm playing with vms at work, I create a domain .sm
<neuro> because separate tlds are a pain in the arse
<awilkins> Yeah, I know, I played the PC version
<SuperMatt> Hornet: no swearing in here!
<Hornet> I can tell
<neuro> Hornet: language
<Hornet> pff
<SuperMatt> for once I get to tell someone else of instead of being told off
<mungbean> and neuro too
<neuro> code of conduct, dude
<SuperMatt> the student has become the master
<mungbean> neuro just swore too
<awilkins> Ooh, I now have an .eu domain
<neuro> mungbean: my epithet was less offensive than hornets :)
<SuperMatt> bravo
<Hornet> I don't see how it matters tbh
<awilkins> My .co.uk and .me.uk are in progress
<Hornet> if someone can use IRC they can read mature language
<SuperMatt> not always
<mungbean> still, civilised people tend not to like it :P
<SuperMatt> some people sit here with their kids
<awilkins> I think the principle is that FreeNode is supposed to be about community and free software
<Hornet> that's moralistic nonsense
<mungbean> reddit comments with swear words in the title get a downvote from me :)
<awilkins> And that if you use foul language you decrease that because you alienate parents / childre
<mungbean> ?
<Hornet> I can understand nsfw links being labelled as such, etc
<Hornet> stuff like that is fine
<mungbean> whatever happened to that offtopic channel that wasn't official?
<Hornet> but in an adult community you will get adult language
<neuro> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat
<Hornet> ubuntu-uncensored you mean
<SuperMatt> you mean omg!ubuntu! where I'm op and no one speaks?
<neuro> "When participating in Ubuntu IRC channels, please follow the code of conduct." - http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct
<mungbean> somewhat controlversial one, run by this girl
<SuperMatt> everyone should totes come to #omg!ubuntu!
<Hornet> if you mean em's one it changed to club-ubuntu
<neuro> Hornet: i normally swear like a trooper on irc, in #ubuntu* i refrain, because it's the courteous thing to do
<Hornet> ironically due to pressure to censor the fact that everywhere else was censored
<neuro> and when i say swear like a trooper, i mean *all* swear words
<Hornet> well, that's your decision
<Hornet> personally I think it's fine
<awilkins> There's a difference between censorship and community culture
<Hornet> if someone wants to ban a 4-year + user then they can
<awilkins> The server didn't asterisk the words out
<Hornet> groupthink is a more dangerous version of censorship
<neuro> personally i think it's fine to hear swearing on TV before the watershed
<neuro> but I understand and tolerate the fact that it's not the way things work
<neuro> not everyone >18 likes swearing
<SuperMatt> I think swearing really all depends on the context, not the word
<awilkins> I'm fine with swearing a bit in front of my daughter (8) if only because it gives you the opportunity to explain which words are considered bad
<Hornet> anyway, I don't gratuitously swear, that's pointless, but if it's relevant to making the strength of my point felt then it's fine
<neuro> it sounds like you're making a point for the sake of it
<awilkins> I'm of much the same mind - it's useful for emphasis, it's a part of language
<SuperMatt> for instance, you can say before the watershed "breast scans are important" but you can't say "touch my breasts"
<SuperMatt> context is the rude part, not the words
<Hornet> I'm making a point as it's part of the current conversation
<Hornet> similarly you can be incredibly racist without using any racist words
<Hornet> it's intentionality
<neuro> that makes no sense
<Hornet> eg someone could insult someone's mother using words you might find on fridge magnets
<Hornet> but it would be no less offensive
<neuro> and no-one's saying that's tolerated in #ubuntu*
<Hornet> anyway, we're getting off topic
<SuperMatt> we are indeed
<neuro> wait, i thought this was part of the current conversation :)
<Hornet> my point is the words are almost irrelevant to the intention
<SuperMatt> lets talk about steam box, aka piston!
<Hornet> wot, no ouya?
<neuro> the words are massively relevant to the context
<Hornet> but to think you can stop something being offensive by blacklisting certain words is nonsense
<neuro> the context being that this is not a place where swear words are welcomed, to ensure an inclusive environment
<neuro> jings
<Hornet> anyone who needs that level of molly-coddling has no place on irc
<Hornet> tbqh
<neuro> dude
<neuro> the point is
<neuro> regardless of words used
<neuro> be polite and courteous
<neuro> which just happens to include please don't swear
<Hornet> and I was
<Hornet> I was simply making a point
<Hornet> without being offensive to anybody
 * neuro bangs head off keyboard
<neuro> ioesfjoiefw
<neuro> wow, that hurt
<Hornet> if someone wants to get on a bandstand and point out that one particular word is 'naughty' then they can
<davmor2> neuro: it's the sticky out bits on j and f that do it
<neuro> you are entirely misunderstanding why someone said "don't swear"
<Hornet> davmor2: clearly you've never used an acupoint keyboard
<Hornet> no I understand entirely
<neuro> davmor2: ah, those crazy blind people and their assistive nubbins
<Hornet> but I think it's like trying to get a pub to ensure that nobody within the walls ever swears
<Hornet> it's an adult environment, it'll happen
<Hornet> even if it's a family pub
<neuro> and when it happens, people will say "please don't swear" to try to prevent a further reoccurrence
<neuro> it's not molly coddling or blacklisting or censorship, it's just common courtesy
<Hornet> I would disagree entirely
<neuro> you may disagree, but participation in #ubuntu* IRC channels demands adherence to the Code of Conduct
<neuro> it's pretty straightforward
<neuro> swear all you like elsewhere
<neuro> but in the Ubuntu channels, please don't
<neuro> in the same way someone would say please don't be racist in these channels
<neuro> it's not inclusive behaviour
<neuro> nor courteous
<Hornet> that's an entirely different matter
<neuro> no, it's not
<neuro> swearing is just a part of general discourteousness
<Hornet> so you're saying a choice of words has an equal effect on a community as deciding that certain people are unacceptable based on their skin colour?
<Hornet> massive difference
<neuro> depending on the words, yes
<Hornet> that sir, is what's commonly referred to as bullshit :)
<directhex> this isn't a productive discussion. easier to just say "comply or banhammer"
<neuro> oh good grief
<neuro> Hornet: i agree with you that i don't believe swearing is all that bad
<neuro> *but* I understand that in *this* environment, it's not conducive to an inclusive air
<neuro> hence, i follow the code of conduct while participating
<ormiret> It doesn't really matter if there is any rational reason to consider swear words offensive: many people do. In the interests of not offending them it is discouraged here.
<neuro> exactly
<neuro> EXACTLY
<Hornet> if people choose to be offended by something that simple then either they're religious recluses or below the age of 8
<Hornet> I don't expect to encounter either on irc
<neuro> that's very unfair
<neuro> that's like saying "well, there's porn on the web, so why can't everyone just deal with it if it appears on your screen"
<Hornet> like I said earlier in this conversation, nsfw matters, language by & large does not
<neuro> some words *are* nsfw
<Hornet> I wouldn't expect someone to be on #KKK during work hours, sure
<neuro> please do use all of the FCC's "seven words" in front of a CEO and see how far you get
<Hornet> pretty sure at various points I have actually :)
<Hornet> anyway, I have more productive things to do than try to explain why self-censorship is an inherantly worse practice than external
<davmor2> Hornet: You're really dragging this out... The rules of the Channel are abide by the COC it's that simple whether you like it or not is a pretty pointless argument
<neuro> actually, let me rephrase my "seven words" comment
<neuro> s/CEO/policeman/
<Hornet> I've been here years, nobody's cared yet
<neuro> we're caring
<neuro> or at least I am
<Hornet> good for you
<neuro> what's the point of having a code of conduct if not to abide by it?
<neuro> it's just good community citizenship
<Hornet> to make certain people feel like they're important by creating and maintaining it?
<neuro> point .                                                       X <- you, far from the point
<Hornet> you asked a question :P
<Hornet> anyway.
<Hornet> like I said I have better things to do at the moment, so back later
 * neuro sighs
<neuro> i may as well have just banged my head off the keyboard for 20 minutes, it may have been more productive
<Hornet> that would be a side-effect of arguing an invalid point, yes
<neuro> that's the last time i try to defend the CoC for a while, at any rate
<neuro> i thought you had better things to do?
<Hornet> I do indeed
<Seeker`> go do them then?
<neuro> lol
<kvarley> Mark Shuttleworth mentions that windows apps can be streamed to Ubuntu on some footage at CES this year. Is it possible to do that for the Adobe Creative Suite? If so, how?
<neuro> he did?
<ormiret> Have a windows machine running them nad connect via RDP or VNC
<neuro> or use crossover to run locally
<SuperMatt> kvarley: you need to have a citrix ics environment
<neuro> no you don't
<neuro> you can enable RDP on some versions of windows
<neuro> usually pro/biz versions
<kvarley> neuro: Yes, he was talking about putting apps in the data centre and streaming them to Ubuntu phones or PCs as thin clients
<kvarley> To give access to legacy software
<neuro> kvarley: huh, well you could probably do that now
<davmor2> kvarley: you can now via rdp, citrix etc
<kvarley> neuro: Yes, he was saying it already exists but it's what you could do to solve problems of legacy software requirements in the corporate sector
<kvarley> RDP isn't fast enough for graphics apps
<neuro> kvarley: he's probably taking about DaaS
<neuro> e.g. VMware View
<neuro> and you'd be surprised how fast RDP can be
<neuro> i've streamed video over RDP on a LAN before
<awilkins> RDP has special provisions for video (I'm presuming it may only work Windows -> Windows though)
<kvarley> neuro: I just wondered if you could make it so a windows app would at like any other window in an Ubuntu session
<kvarley> Rather than going through a viewer
<awilkins> What I think should be do-able is storing RDP sessions as a screencast
<awilkins> That would be both low bandwidth and high fidelity
<popey> awilkins: no, works on linux too
<popey> was demo'ed at UDS a year or two back
<awilkins> Neato
<neuro> kvarley: best way right now is crossover
<neuro> run it locally
<awilkins> TBH RDP is probably the best remote desktop server in my opinion
<kvarley> neuro: Last time I checked it doesn't support the creative suite by Adobe tho
<awilkins> NX is a close second but it's much more fiddly
<popey> I hear good things about NX
<neuro> awilkins: mac remote desktop is all kinds of awesome
<neuro> popey: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<neuro> NX is THE DEVIL
<awilkins> I use three pieces of remoteware
<awilkins> ssh, RDP and Synergy
<SuperMatt> I've never managed to get NX working
<awilkins> Synergy not really a remote desktop though
<kvarley> Problem is Adobe are too ignorant to port their products to Linux despite boasting about a portable codebase, so I'm left with running virtualbox to access their software.
<neuro> SuperMatt: it's evil, evil, nasty stuff
<awilkins> The key to getting NX working is furtling with encryption keys in the /etc folder
<neuro> don't get me wrong, it's GREAT when it works
<neuro> but when it goes bad, it goes bad A LOT
<neuro> awilkins: um, wat?
<neuro> just ssh it
<awilkins> neuro, In my experience you have to change the public key before it will work
<neuro> not IME
<neuro> at least not with FreeNX
<awilkins> neuro, But this may just be that I don't trust the default key that ships with it
<neuro> which was a bag of hurt
<awilkins> Not set it up recently
<davmor2> kvarley: it should run under wine
<ali1234> NO
<ali1234> adobe creative suite does NOT run under wine
<ali1234> not now, not ever
<ali1234> photoshop might
<ali1234> an old version anyway
<ali1234> premier does not. after effects does not.
<neuro> what, you mean like the version that adobe "accidentally" gave away?
<ali1234> encore does not
<neuro> CS2 is "freely" downloadable from adobe.com
<ali1234> it always has been
<neuro> no, no it hasn't
<ali1234> the "trial" version is the full software
<ali1234> all you need is a serial to make it work
<ali1234> (or a crack)
<neuro> they threw up full downloads with serial numbers because they were switching off the CS2 activation servers
<ali1234> same is true of the new version
<neuro> err, no
<neuro> http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html
<neuro> lookit
<neuro> everything bar after effects
<neuro> the full smash
<neuro> with serials
<ali1234> lolol
<ali1234> ok, that's funny
<ali1234> it's not like anyone who wants it hasn't already pirated it though
<neuro> they're saying you still need a licence to run
 * neuro hasn't
<ali1234> well they would say that
<neuro> well yeah that's the contentious point
<ali1234> i mean if you don't care, piratebay is that way ->
<neuro> loads of tech press already noticed
<neuro> piratebay?
<neuro> i'm on sky and BT, i can't access that site
<neuro> *cough*
<ali1234> incidentally
<ali1234> CS2 is not "old" enough for any of it to work in wine
<neuro> shame
<ali1234> except perhaps photoshop
<ali1234> it all runs perfectly in virtualbox though
<neuro> but not in a "native" stylee
<ali1234> sure it is
<ali1234> if your CPU is less than 5 years old and not a cheap intel one
<neuro> unless vbox has some parallels ubiquity mode that i'm not aware of
<ali1234> i have no idea what you are talking about
<neuro> no, i mean windowed without the windows desktop underneath (if you see what i mean)
<ali1234> anyway it runs perfectly well
<ali1234> oh yeah virtualbox seamless mode
<ali1234> yeah it works well
<neuro> bah
<neuro> not ubiquity
<neuro> coherence
<ali1234> still dn't know what you are talking about
<neuro> http://download.parallels.com/desktop/v5/docs/en/Parallels_Desktop_Users_Guide/23413.htm
<neuro> windows from the virtualised OS appear as though native to the host OS
<ali1234> http://i.techrepublic.com.com/blogs/seamless.png
<neuro> that's the bunny
<dwatkins> http://www.technologytell.com/apple/110494/adobe-is-not-giving-away-free-cs2-downloads/
<ali1234> i used to even have a ubuntu type theme for windows
<neuro> i forgot vbox could do that
<neuro> i never use it now anyway, was too buggy and crashy for me
<neuro> (running ubuntu on win7)
<neuro> the VM would just snap out of existence without warning
<dwatkins> seamless is great, works great (when it works...)
<neuro> and sometimes would just reboot the host machine too
<SuperMatt> all right, php5.3 is going to reach end of life in march. Is there an *official* ubuntu way to upgrade to 5.4 in precise?
<SuperMatt> I'd rather not touch PPAs
<neuro> bwahahaha
<neuro> backports?
<SuperMatt> backports doen't have an updated version
<diplo> Well they will need to support upgrade path ?
<diplo> it's an lts
<neuro> they don't need to support an upgrade path
<neuro> that's the point of an LTS
<neuro> you want fixed point releases on board
<SuperMatt> yeah, but it's a major version, and could break a lot of stuff for people
<diplo> I suppose
<neuro> how will it break stuff?
<neuro> going EOL won't stop it working
<SuperMatt> no, but upgrading to 5.4 could break people's sites, so the upgrade process to 5.4 needs to be... manual
<SuperMatt> basically, I should have the option to install a package php5.4
<neuro> the upgrade process, if any, will not be an official one
<neuro> you do
<neuro> PPAs
<neuro> or from source
<neuro> but from official LTS sources, doubtful
<diplo> There is a blueprint for it SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> diplo: where are you seeing this?
<kvarley> davmor2: Does Illustrator work under Wine? What version? I never had any luck running it previously
<ali1234> illustrator is probably ok
<diplo> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-p-php54
<neuro> kvarley: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/
<SuperMatt> my other option is to upgrade my webserver to quantal
<ali1234> it's the video stuff that has basically no chance of ever working
<ali1234> those are also the tools that have no serious open source competition
<SuperMatt> diplo: thanks, I think I'm gonna have to subscribe to that
<ali1234> illustrator is not really any better than inkscape for most uses
<kvarley> neuro: All known not to work under crossover
<neuro> it's marked completed
<neuro> Status: This has been a hard, back and forth process, and I am not entirely happy with the result, but I don't feel there was anything more we could do. With Suhosin unavailable for 5.4.0, we have decided to ship 5.3.10 with the full protections of Suhosin and its known working state rather than 5.4.0 without Suhosin. With beta2 all but released (undergoing final testing) with 5.3.10, there isn't much more we can do. Thanks to everyone who put their ti
<neuro> your option seems to be https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/php5
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> that scares me somewhat
<kvarley> ali1234: It's just the time taken to learn Illustrator which is the industry standard tool is so long so that's why I'm investigating getting it working
<diplo> Daviey is mentioned in there, or could ask in #ubuntu-server SuperMatt ?
<ali1234> who uses crossover anyway? use wine
<neuro> kvarley: you'd be better off just ponying up the 60-70 quid for a copy of win7 home premium and virtualising that
<kvarley> ali1234: +1
<ali1234> yes, virtualbox
<neuro> at least you'll know it works
<kvarley> neuro: I stated earlier that I'm currently doing that :)
 * neuro shuts up :)
<kvarley> heh
<ali1234> don't bother with wine. even if you get it working it will be flaky and act weird, especially fonts
<kvarley> If Adobe would jump down from their high horse and port their code it'd be awesome. But they have no intention of doing so, which makes me dislike them strongly.
<neuro> i think if they thought there was a market for it that they could recoup their costs from, they would go for it
<neuro> obviously they don't think that
<kvarley> neuro: There IS a market for it, it's just too small in their eyes
<dwatkins> how big is the Linux desktop market, 2% of users?
<neuro> that's ... what i said
<neuro> :)
<kvarley> neuro: Yeah sorry, sent before you sent second msg
<kvarley> dwakins: Not sure, but imagine all the businesses who could ditch windows if it was ported properly to Linux
<neuro> dwatkins: wikipedia says 1.19%
<dwatkins> w3schools says 5% iirc
<kvarley> Since designers and creative types won't care about the OS, they just need to be able to launch and use their apps
<SuperMatt> thing is that linux market != linux business market
<dwatkins> I don't know if that's just browsers etc.
<neuro> http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
<SuperMatt> the market for adobe stuff in business could be much larger than 5%
<dwatkins> also, it depends how much effort is required to port the code, of course
<dwatkins> if you have to spend 50% of your time porting and supporting applications for 5% of users, that's not ideal
<neuro> kvarley: you'll probably find the number of business who would want to ditch windows and still run adobe software would just get macs instead
 * neuro hugs his macs
<kvarley> dwatkins: They've boasted about their lightweight and portable codebase many times before online, so either they're lying or can't be bothered.
<neuro> both, probably
<dwatkins> kvarley: oh, I wasn't aware of those statements, nor their context
<kvarley> dwatkins: Quick search should bring them up. It happened many times on forums and their customer support and chats with devs. Not high up sources but they gave a good gist of the company stance
<SuperMatt> adobe have been very clear on their reasons: the colour management in linux is poor.
<kvarley> neuro: But macs cost a lot and windows licenses aren't exactly getting cheaper
<neuro> macs don't cost that much if you're prepared to shop around a bit or buy refurb
<kvarley> SuperMatt: So it's another thing to blame on the proprietary graphics drivers front?
<neuro> and in terms of capex and depreciation, they are better than wintel
<neuro> and windows licences are very cheap if you're a large biz or enterprise
<kvarley> neuro: But vs Linux they lose
<neuro> why vs Linux they lose?
<SuperMatt> kvarley: I'm not sure about that, but essentially I don't think Adobe will touch linux until everyone can agree to do colour one way, rather than 1000 different standards
<kvarley> Linux gives you a massive range of hardware to choose from and gives you support for way longer than a Macs life
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Maybe they're forgetting that THEY are the standard setters ;)
<neuro> why would i want a massive range of hardware to choose from? :)
<kvarley> neuro: To better cater to your needs and spend less in the process
<neuro> but my needs are all software
<kvarley> neuro: Plus your price estimations are off. Mac = 2x the PC equivalent
<neuro> o rly
<dwatkins> my Macs have lasted twice as long as my PCs, though
<kvarley> neuro: This was assuming if the software was available on Linux too :)
<kvarley> dwatkins: How come? What hardware - manufactured or home built?
<daubers> dwatkins: That's only because it takes you twice as long to recover from the initial expense :P
<neuro> if i want a cheap dell vostro that will fall apart after heavy use, then sure, i guess
<kvarley> neuro: yes, I got a more powerful PC for half the cost of a mac
<awilkins> The only reason my PCs get changed these days is dead hardware or more demanding apps / games
<kvarley> neuro: I never said anything about getting cheap hardware, just reasonably priced hardware :0
<neuro> kvarley: with a tenth of the build quality no doubt
<kvarley> *:)
<awilkins> And now I'm on a quad core i7 with 8GB of RAM I think games are probably the only pusher
 * neuro ahems
<neuro> System Info: Model:  MacBookPro9 Â· CPU Speed:  8 @ 2.6 GHz Â· L2:  256 KB Â· L3:  6 MB Â· RAM:  8 GB Â· OS X:  Version 10.8.2 (Build 12C3006) Â· Hostname:  hornet Â· User:  neuro Â· Client:  Linkinus 2.4.3/25089 Â· Style:  I Are Sea!
<neuro> hee
<neuro> quad core i7, 8 threads baby
<mungbean> what's the story on the valve console?
<neuro> it's probably going to suck?
<neuro> but lots of people will probably buy it?
<awilkins> It's a three board modular PC
<neuro> but not enough to shake the domination of xbox/sony/nintendo?
<awilkins> Their retail rates are in excess of $500
<neuro> s/lots of people/hardly anyone/
<awilkins> For the one with the crap integrated graphics and a 32GB SSD
<awilkins> It's a really nice form factor but the price is too high
<awilkins> http://xi3.com/buy_now.php
<neuro> HOW MUCH (little)???
<neuro> 32GB?!
<awilkins> Oh, sorry, 16GB SSD
<awilkins> Not RAM
<awilkins> 2G of RAM
<neuro> 16GB?!
<neuro> that's even worse!
<awilkins> Yeah
<kvarley> Anybody see the 1TB flash drive unveiled today? Looks sweet
<neuro> yeah i knew what you meant
<awilkins> (NB - Windows requires 32GB or more)
<gord> worth noting that that is the price of the original hardware that company has been shipping around for a good while, valve would probably customise it and then sell it at a loss, then make their money in steam sales
<awilkins> It's a nice case, and a nice external storage case (see further down on page)
<awilkins> I'd like one as an HTPC running MythTV, but it's too much
<neuro> given that steam have a sale every other week, i wonder how valve would actually *make* money? :)
<awilkins> And too inflexible. I want to buy that external case and stick my own spinning rust in it
<mungbean> whats the graphics chip?
<directhex> valve have a 30% split on the final sale price of everything on steam
<awilkins> Doesn't say
<directhex> publishers get 70%
<neuro> 30% of 50% off though ...
<directhex> you asked!
<awilkins> Their website is being pummelled by Piston searchers right now I think
<neuro> see their last failed kickstarter for more info then: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/262476727/xi3-help-us-usher-in-the-post-pc-era
<directhex> "Xi3 wouldn't discuss price for Piston, but commented that the Steam Box is based on its "performance level" X7A offering, which is priced at $999. Xi3 declined to comment on what would differentiate Piston hardware-wise from a standard X7A."
<neuro> directhex: i did, didn't i? :)
<neuro> from the looks of it, both classes of system have some sort of unnamed DX11-compatible chipset
<neuro> probably using system ram
<neuro> since neither spec mentions discrete ram for gpu
<directhex> onboard amd, i guess
<awilkins> Yeah, don't the AMDs have an on-die GPU now?
<mungbean> valve can re-spec it though
<neuro> true
<mungbean> mainly the gpu
<directhex> amd A10-4600M
<directhex> that's my guess.
<directhex> all the current xi3 stuff is amd based, and their kickstarter said the x7a would be 3.2ghz quadcore with 384 gpu cores
<directhex> the a10-4600m matches that
<awilkins> Replacing my current HTPC (which is a noisy full size desktop case) with one of these would be nice
<awilkins> But would have to be part of a larger program to "go HD"
<awilkins> Still on an SD CRT
<mungbean> amd is a fail on linux thoug
<directhex> i know, that'll be a major hurdle
<directhex> i suspect valve are breaking heads at amd hq
<mungbean> why choose the worst possible sitation?
<awilkins> They'll probably ship it with Windows
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> that would be a fail too
<directhex> there isn't space in that kind of form factor for a discrete cpu
<directhex> so that leaves intel with intel hd4000, or amd
<awilkins> But a no-brainer - want to support the most games? Use Windows.
<directhex> amd is faster, *if* the drivers don't suck
<directhex> the chance of drivers not sucking is higher than the chance of intel hd4000 not sucking
<neuro> :)
<neuro> hd4000 is the reason i didn't buy a new mac mini :P
<directhex> and amd are in trouble financially so if valve promises to ship a couple of million units in year 1, amd will do *anything* they say
<neuro> couple of million?
<neuro> u mad? :)
<awilkins> Isn't Intel the best for just flatland work though?
<awilkins> (in terms of best-compatible-with-Linux)?
<directhex> neuro, what's wrong with a couple of million units?
<neuro> xbox 360 has sold on avg 10m per year over 7 years
<neuro> and that's with microsoft and third parties spending millions on marketing
<neuro> just checking numbers
<neuro> they sold 1.5m in year 1
<mungbean> quite pricey thou
<directhex> ignore all the pricing
<neuro> 360 launch price in US was $399
<directhex> you are being lied to if you pay attention to the pricing on standalone xi3 stuff and assume that is steambox pricing
<neuro> the real question is, how much are valve willing to eat in terms of loss making on hw
<directhex> that depends on how much their unit costs are
<directhex> which depends on how much volume they aim for
<mungbean> windows licences won't be part of the cost
<directhex> okay. Looks like the "bulk" price on that AMD chip is $106
<directhex> "bulk" meaning 5 units or more
<directhex> the price for 500,000 units will be rather lower
 * awilkins wonders how long it will be until a "root your Piston and install MythTV on it" guide occurs
<kvarley> The i/o on the steambox is insane
<awilkins> 2x SATA 4X USB3 4x USB 2 isn't it?
<directhex> again, don't assume that what you're seeing is final. use it as a starting point for educated guesses
<awilkins> Indeed
<directhex> we can make an educated guess that it won't have more than 2G RAM - valve's work has been in 32-bit land, so more than that is pointless
<directhex> we can assume it'll have a limited SSD to keep the price low - 64G is twice a premium wiiu - and will have the ability to use a USB disk for additional storage (again, see wiiu)
<kvarley> 1x Ethernet, 2x Mini Displayport or mini hdmi, 1 fullsize DP/HDMI port, 2x powered usb, 2x usb 2.0, 4x usb 3.0, 3.5mm mic in, 3.5mm headphones out, optical audio, 4x eSATAp ports
<directhex> frankly i can't find a way to make this thing unprofitable at $400 retail. maybe even profitable at $300 in sufficient bulk.
<kvarley> Doubt it will be about profit for Valve
<kvarley> More a way to get more people onto Steam
<awilkins> "Xi3 chief marketing officer David Politis told Polygon that Piston will offer up to 1 TB of interal storage and offer modular component updates, including the option to upgrade the PC's CPU and RAM"
<awilkins> Up[ to 1TB sounds like a spinning disk
<kvarley> I can see this working, but not with the general publish yet
<kvarley> *general public
<awilkins> But hey, that's a marketing officer
<kvarley> The expansion board thing is cool
<kvarley> Love that their site is down lol
<gord> directhex, you might be forgetting that valve only has digital downloads, wiiu uses disks. small ssd's really aren't an option for a steam box
<directhex> the xi3 x7a is the base platform on which the steam box will be built. again, don't assume that what you see is a steambox, it's an x7a. ports will not neccessarily be identical
<kvarley> Wii U supports external hard drives on top of the nand space too
<kvarley> directhex: Still nice to see that much I/O on one of their boxes
<directhex> gord, you can download games from the estore on wiiu. hell, sony sells a 12gb ps3 that still lets you download games
<gord> directhex, yeah, but can is different than must
<gord> and with the basic wiiu package. can is a struggle at best
<directhex> investing heavily in nand today is a mistake. prices are too volatile to make it a smart move
<directhex> 32GB is enough for lots of *most* blockbuster pc games
<directhex> especially when you can redownload any title as often as you like
<directhex> it's not much for an MMO
<awilkins> Most of the games I install seem to be 5GB - 10GB
<gord> games are hitting 20gb a pop these days, then there is the OS and all the other gubbins to deal with
<awilkins> Yeah, they'd be daft not to have a "Hey, store all your music n'stuff on here too" feature
<kvarley> gord: Battlefield 3 with all the DLC is over 30GB now 0.o
<awilkins> Wouldn't be surprised to see a merging of "Big Picture" with Unity Dash
<gord> not going to get better once the next xbox comes out with bluray support
<awilkins> And all that Ubuntu TV stuff
<directhex> yes, that changes things
<kvarley> Has anybody noticed Valve's stance upon running other software on the box yet? Will be interesting to see if they would let you install other OS' on there
<directhex> right now, size of a dvd, on 360, helps keep sizes grounded
<popey> kvarley: it doesnt exist yet, hard to say
<kvarley> gord: Xbox 720 is getting BluRay support? *facepalm*
<gord> well its not getting hd-dvd support
<directhex> games on SD!
<kvarley> popey: Ah ok, would be very nice if they did. They obviously have no reason to allow that kind of thing except to be nice to the minority. Could be a similar deal to those Android TV sticks that let you boot off USB or SD media
<kvarley> gord: Could be proprietary format like the Wii U? I doubt Microsoft will want to pay Sony for anything
<kvarley> directhex: You could do that on the old Wii xD
<czajkowski> gord: you're back!
<directhex> kvarley, wii u is blu-ray. mostly.
<kvarley> directhex: But it's not "Blu-Ray" to avoid licensing?
<directhex> kvarley, right.
<gord> kvarley, depends if they want to be able to play movies, if not, no point in spending the licencing monies
<directhex> no movie support, and nonstandard filesystems and stuff
<gord> czajkowski, yup, back from irc-holidays
<kvarley> gord: I imagine if they don't allow disc playback they'll be able to push people to use the Live store or whatever it's called
<czajkowski> aquarius:  daker> does anyone know if u1 does have a qml sdk ?
<aquarius> czajkowski, depends which bits of U1
<aquarius> czajkowski, where did that get asked?
<czajkowski> aquarius: jono channel
<czajkowski> ubuntu-community-team
<popey> directhex: i want an internet connected fridge
<popey> in fact, i could just stick an android tablet to the wall, attach a scanner and scan everything in/out, or when it's 25/50/75 33/66% used
<awilkins> They're doing that for our meeting rooms at work
<awilkins> Mounting a tablet to the wall outside for bookings
<awilkins> This is an office leased from an office rental company though
<awilkins> Regus
<gord> i remember seing a fridge that did that on tomorrows world when i was young
<popey> even just saving out a text file of what's been removed recently would help when shopping
<popey> and also remind you of how much you spend on stuff âº
<awilkins> I want something like that that sorts in aisle traversal order
<gord> it could tell you when you are about to eat some gone off milk with your cereal
<BigRedS> I've always disliked the manual tedium required there
<awilkins> Naah, the human nose is the best gone-off food detector
<BigRedS> If I'm going to come to rely on it I don't want it to rely on me scanning barcodes whenever I take anything out of the fridge
<awilkins> RFID
<popey> is there an API for turning barcodes into products tho?
<BigRedS> yeah
<awilkins> But that supposes packaging
<gord> google goggles sure does it
<awilkins> Tomatoes don't have RFID in them (yet)
<BigRedS> My first imagination of it used cameras and some hilariously impossible photo recognition stuff
<BigRedS> but now that's less impossible, and RFID's better anyway
<gord> actually, you could litterally have a camera and just google image search the product, you'll probably get the right result a a suggested title
<popey> yeah, front facing camera could work
<mungbean> i like the xkcd fridge
<mungbean> http://xkcd.com/1109/
<gord> if you had a camera you could also hold the recept up to the camera and have it automatically figure out what the cost of each individual thing was
<awilkins> Or just run off the barcode and integrate with the Tesco.com database etc
<awilkins> With of course, frightening privacy implications
<mungbean> i left my fridge door open ovrnight the other day and the lamp cooked everything on top shelf
<awilkins> The bulb in mine is blown :-)
<mungbean> and i ate mouldy bread by kmistake
<awilkins> You'll either cure a malevolent space disease that would have wiped out half the western hemisphere and left the rest sterile, or go mad.
<mungbean> the true story was that i was nervous and paranoid for 6 hours
<mungbean> green/blue mould on bread means a massive invisible mould cluster underneath
<gord> how mould works is that everything is absolutely fine until midnight on the eat by date then it all suddenly turns bad
<awilkins> xi3.com have finally given up the ghost
<awilkins> 503... they must be overjoyed, TBH
<awilkins> Hah, Adobe CS2 up for free
<awilkins> If I had a use for any of it I'd download it
<awilkins> http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html
<popey> hmm, or use one of those business card scanners to scan the barcode
<gord> put one next to the fridge, one next to the bin
<brobostigon> any suggestions as to how i track down, my eeeps networking sudenly having a goslow since sunday? i habe done no software updates, now changed any network settings. when in comparison on my nexus7, same network things work fine.
<brobostigon> eeepc*
<brobostigon> nor*
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: wired or wireless network?
<brobostigon> wireless
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: did a neighbour install wifi on the same channel, or did he start downloading a lot?
<MartijnVdS> or, maybe something is sending/receiving a lot of packets?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my nexus7 is wifi also, so woildnt that affect that also?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: only if you're downloading/uploading a lot on it.. I'd expect old (802.11b) devices to interfere more than new (802.11n) ones
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nope, i have nothjng but a terminal running, and it wont even ssh smoothly, it is that slow.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: that's bad
<MartijnVdS> what does "iw wlan0 link" say?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: which bit do you need?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you pastebin it all (should be around 5-6 lines?)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: pastebinit, what syntax?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: dunno
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: paste.debian.net/222895
<MartijnVdS> looks OK -- it has a 48 mbit connection, at -63dBm -- which is normal if you're not too far from the AP
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am 4 metres away from it.
<MartijnVdS> anything in dmesg?
<MartijnVdS> or /var/log (about WPA?)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not that i can see.
<brobostigon> minute.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nothing that looks abnormal.
<MartijnVdS> ifconfig -> does it show "errors:" ?
<MartijnVdS> "iw wlan0 scan | less" (maybe "scan dump") -- does that show any other networks on the same channel, or near yours?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: there is one other network, in the same channel range, that just about registers signal.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: what happens if you change your channel to one that's at least 5 different from the current one? (one of 1, 6, 11 is the best)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: on the router? will this affect other people from connecting?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: all devices will reconnect, but that shuold be automagic
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, minute
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, i have changed to the channel to 11.
<ali1234> what is the open source alternative to exchange server?
<ali1234> specifically for contacts and calendar sync
<popey> zimbra?
<ali1234> is it light weight?
<ali1234> what i need is something that talks caldav and also exchange.
<ali1234> to replace the google MfE sync that they have switched off now
<ali1234> what does ubuntu phone use for sync btw?
<davmor2> ali1234: in comparison to exchange yes :)
<ali1234> the answer better be caldav
<ali1234> zimbra needs a proprietary extension to do exchange sync according to wikipedia
<davmor2> ali1234: there is zarafa too http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/biztools/article.php/3932591/Top-5-Open-Source-Alternatives-to-Microsoft-Exchange.htm
<ali1234> also i only want contacts and calendar support. most of this stuff only does email
<ali1234> actually exchange might be totally unnecessary... i think all nokia phone do this on bluetooth as well
<ali1234> that would probably be easier
<popey> ali1234: pass
<ali1234> https://syncevolution.org/wiki/sync-your-phone-bluetooth looks like what i need
<ali1234> plus a plugin ffor it that talks caldav etc
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that seemed to have fixed it, why?
<awilkins> Yeah, ActiveSync is patented and they charge licenses to implement it
 * awilkins is responding to discussion from 2 hrs ago
<scratman> irc.freenode.org, #videolan
<solarcloud_3scrn> My A.D.D. friend once asked me, in a fleet of depression, whether or not there was a video website 'about him' .. Funnily enough, the guy on the opposite dinner table leaned over and said "there is, ya know !"
<scratman> #mixxx
<scratman> opps
<scratman> irc.freenode.org, #mixxx
<scratman> jeez
<mgdm> try '/join' in front of that?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Apparently Mint beats Ubuntu.. http://www.rlslog.net/linux-format-uk-february-2013-p2p/#comments  .. [I'd try extabit.com]
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. or I'll know in 29 minutes !!
<popey> that doesn't look like a legit download site
<solarcloud_3scrn> Woops .. my bad .. should have been for hitchcock, sorry.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Tescro run went well . 19 items Av. price 18.42p (pence). 8 coleslaw .. not sure if the cat will warm to it thou.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-09
<shingdayho> hey guys
<shingdayho> my wireless im getting high latency every few pings when pinging my default gateway
<shingdayho> before i was using win 7 on this PC and never got latency issue and nor on any other PC
<shingdayho> any idea what it may be (obv wireless driver or something) and how to fix it?
<neuro> glargen
<Azelphur> glargen to you too good sir
<MooDoo> bless you?
<popey> pip pip
<Knightwise> hey everyone ! :)
<Knightwise> czajkowski: are you awake yet ?
<czajkowski> yup
<Knightwise> czajkowski: i tried sending Jono a message on facebook yesterday, but perhaps you could help me
<Knightwise> we would like to send a camera crew to fossdem this year and see if it would be possible to do an item on the new ubuntu phone os
<Knightwise> in short we would like to know IF there are any demo models of the ubuntu phone going to be at Fossdemm and who we need to talk to to set up a 30 minute interview.
<czajkowski> Knightwise: fosdem isn't really like that kinda event :)
<czajkowski> and canonical folks tend to be developers at it the booth is a community booth also.
<czajkowski> I can ask and see if we know of any phone devs going if that helps
<Knightwise> yeah I know , but since Ubuntu has a booth there i was thinking it might possible.
<Knightwise> would be the only time we could get our hands on a working demo
<czajkowski> the booths/stands are community run stands and canonical tend to not be at them tbh
<Knightwise> czajkowski:that would be awesome.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> Knightwise: unlikely there will be anyone with the phone OS officially there
<Knightwise> hey brobostigon
<popey> we're sending a few people, not not those developers, they're busy âº
<brobostigon> hey Knightwise
<Knightwise> popey: any chance they might take a demo model with them ?
<popey> almost certainly not
<Knightwise> popey: ps we are airing the episode with alex chiang today.
<Knightwise> popey:  :( too bad. It was worth a try to ask.
<czajkowski> ah don't need to poke popey has the know :)
<Knightwise> would there be any other entrypoint into canonical that might help us take a peek at one of the demo models ?
<Knightwise> (sorry to bug you guys with this, but it would be great for the show)
<Knightwise> and you are the only canonicilians i know.
<popey> go to barcelona 25-28 feb
<popey> http://www.mobileworldcongress.com/
<popey> or wait for the image / source to be released and play with that
<Knightwise> Wish I could go to Barcelona :(
<brobostigon> cool. google now, is showing birthdays of people from g+.
<diplo> Morning all
<Azelphur> morning
<Azelphur> I've been listening to ode to fire alarm since half 4 :)
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<Laney> meow
<mungbean> woof
 * Laney runs up a tree
<Knightwise> hey MooDoo Laney
 * czajkowski bottles some of Laney energry and sells it 
<SuperMatt> morning
<popey> must see! new episode of linux outlaws is out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JmA2ClUvUY
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/surprisingly-sage-advice-from-pwqgen/ <- this is a must see!
<AlanBell> popey: harsh, but fair
<mungbean> anyone have a carbon monoxide alarm?
<SuperMatt> nope
<mungbean> wonder whether siting it upstairs (boiler in kitchen) is sufficien
<SuperMatt> probably not
 * mungbean waits for consensus
<dwatkins> mungbean: it should be next to the boiler. I had one of those passive ones which changes colour stuck to my boiler.
<AlanBell> isn't it heavier than air?
<AlanBell> maybe not http://www.homesafe.com/coalert/index.php
<mungbean> its a CO alarm
<mungbean> combined smoke and CO
<mungbean> Homeowners should remember not to install carbon monoxide detectors directly above or beside fuel-burning appliances, as appliances may emit a small amount of carbon monoxide upon start-up. A detector should not be placed within fifteen feet of heating or cooking appliances or in or near very humid areas such as bathrooms.
<mungbean>  located near the sleeping area, where it can wake you if you are asleep
<mungbean> thanks for link AlanBell
<dwatkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Carbon-Monoxide-CO-Detector-Monitor/dp/B005K7RVRI/r is what I had, I should probabyl get an actual alarm for my new boiler.
 * bigcalm grumbles noisily
 * dwatkins hands bigcalm a big mug of tea
<bigcalm> dwatkins: might help
 * bigcalm saunters off
<xnox> I love todays doodle
<SuperMatt> yarr, it's good
<SuperMatt> I can't believe the system I rely on every day is 150 years old
<SuperMatt> http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/ubuntu-award-s.jpg <- god, I love Jono's stance
<SuperMatt> he's really rocking the superhero look
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: the tube?
<dwatkins> I gather the London Underground is 150 years young today
<SuperMatt> dwatkins: yuppers!
<SuperMatt> it certainly creaks like a 150 year old
 * dwatkins notes he shares his birthday with the London Underground
<mungbean> is there something like shutter but for windows7?
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> mungbean: greenshot
<mungbean> thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> I don't know if they're comparable, but it's a screenshot program
<mungbean> jsut want something to popup rather than run pbrush
<mungbean> i see win7 has a tool called snippet too
<SuperMatt> well, I don't know what that does
<ali1234> it's a screenshot tool
<mungbean> but it doesn't run in the background
<ali1234> why would you want it to?
<ali1234> you can pin it to the taskbar. it has right click functions
<SuperMatt> that's not so bad
<davmor2> mungbean: you can just do PrtScn open paint copy it in save it as png done if you don't want to go through the hassle of installing stuff
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> i'd want it to do what shutter does
<SuperMatt> that snipping tool looks ok
<SuperMatt> one thing I like about shutter is being able to recapture an area, so if you're trying to screenshot a webpage multiple times for a document, it's nice and easy
<Azelphur> second ikea delivery, got some more legs, now for the third delivery
<Azelphur> I dream of a day when ikea sends all the required components to build my desk
<dwatkins> I've been considering getting a new desk from Ikea, but I need one that's 2m wide, which one are you getting, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I got galants and just stick them all together
<dwatkins> cunning
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/layout.png is my plan
<dwatkins> They have one that's a single piece of wood 2m wide, but it's only about 30cm deep
<dwatkins> very nice, and you don't have any pesky legs in the way of where you'll be sitting
<Azelphur> indeed
<diplo> I've just bought a plain desk from Ikdea for the boys
<diplo> -d
<Azelphur> well, at the moment, I don't have any legs at all ;)
<dwatkins> I have an alcove that's within a very small distance of 2m, so I might need to get something just under 2m wide.
<mungbean> does anyone know of a storage box that fits nicely under ektorp sofa?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: if you got a 160 with a 30cm extension it'd come to 190
<dwatkins> aha nice
<diplo> http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S19903730/
<Azelphur> or a 120 with 2 30cm extensions would probably look nicer
<Azelphur> but yea, stick galant into ikea.com, there seem to be lots of choices
<davmor2> Azelphur: with those I recommend you get the cable tidies too they are only a few quid but it save you kicking cables
<Azelphur> I didn't bother with the cable tidies, my desk is so deep I doubt it'll be an issue
<dwatkins> I have a 9-way mains thing under my desk at work, I'd like to get one for home and attach it to the back of my desk.
<Azelphur> I've got 1.4m deep lol
<davmor2> Azelphur: ah sorry it was diplo
<diplo> :D
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/December/2013-01-09-115809_785x584_scrot.png this bug amuses me
<shauno> someone needs to be slapped for that blue background.  especially with the logo/mugshot on white.
<Azelphur> hehe indeed, poor design
<SuperMatt> they probably bought an off the shelf product and smooshed it in with the least possible effort
<Azelphur> our friendly ikea.op4 says he will courier out the rest of my legs in 3-5 days, yay.
<Azelphur> in theory they can't send too few legs this time, since only 4 remain
<Azelphur> 2*
<shauno> "in theory" you may have just cursed yourself.  be prepared to receive one leg for a completely different product, and two left feet for dramatic effect :)
<Azelphur> rofl indeed
<Azelphur> I ordered 4 desks which should have a total of 20 legs, they sent me 10, realised they screwed up and couriered me another 8, so I just opened that ikea chat to say "what about the other 2?" XD
<shauno> if it was anyone else, I'd be pondering why on earth you need 4 desks.  but it's you
<shauno> surprised you didn't opt for lack racks instead though
<xnox> this looks nice as well: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S99908776/
<xnox> I might get one.
<SuperMatt> ooh, a wide desk, I could do with one of those
<SuperMatt> stick two monitors on it, and my tower and sub underneath
 * xnox has two monitors already, but I use it with a laptop, thinking to get a desktop tower though.
<shauno> I got my desk from a commercial clearout.  makes my home office look like a cube-farm, but so much more space than they usually give you for domestic
<mungbean> where do i find terminal server connection logs in windows 2k8 server please?
 * Laney got a nice big glass desk from an office furniture shop
<xnox> sounds nice Laney, but I don't like scratches and smudges on the glass desks, as I tend to put hard-drives on my desk and things like that.
<Laney> it's mildly annoying that i can see the cable mess
<Laney> but not annoying enough that i can be bothered to tidy it up apparently
<Azelphur> are there any laws surrounding ridiculous fire alarms?
<Azelphur> in the my flat has a fire alarm that I have no control over, it went off from 4:30 till 10:30am today, landlord didn't answer 24 hour emergency line all day till 10 when he finally came out
<Azelphur> annnnd, now it's going again
<mungbean> yes, Azelphur
<Azelphur> what's the law on that?
<mungbean> noise abatement section of the council
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> :D
<mungbean> We can deal with 'statutory nuisance' that comes under the following categories:
<mungbean> Noise from a premises
<mungbean> Noise emitted from a vehicle, machinery or equipment in the street
<mungbean> including alarms
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> this is round 3 of the fire alarm, it was going nuts on new years eve too for a few hours
<JohnRobert> hello
<davmor2> bigcalm: what do you want to do about Thursday, Alex can't make it he has a day of conf calls, mat is in Ireland by the sound of it and no news from gord :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: ping
<davmor2> if czajkowski responds before the end of Lunch every pick on her, it's for her own good :)
<dwatkins> what for, davmor2?
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello :)
<Azelphur> looks like MS is killing Windows Live Messenger
<Azelphur> it's skype or GTFO as of March 15
<Azelphur> abandon ship folks.
<dwatkins> I barely use Skype as it is.
<bigcalm> davmor2: ug. See how I feel after the LUG meeting tonight :)
<dwatkins> I'd like to see a SIP service that competes.
<Azelphur> me too
<solarcloud_3scrn> I use skype all the time .. saves Â£100's a year.
<Azelphur> I dunno why someone doesn't make a neat SIP client
<Azelphur> people on same SIP network are just a username
<Azelphur> but you can dial out to other networks too
<Azelphur> job done, that'd make it awesome
<Azelphur> dwatkins: speak of the devil, http://www.pcworld.com/article/2018815/ekiga-4-0-offers-a-fresh-open-source-skype-alternative.html
<Azelphur> o.O
<dwatkins> ooh nice
<mungbean> anything i can check on a windows server that was compromised?
<dwatkins> How does Ekiga do the match-making between users? Do they have a server you log on to?
<mungbean> it doesn't have net access anymroe to downlouad a rootkit checker
<dwatkins> mungbean: if a server has been compromised, I'd consider wiping it and reinstalling, or just getting a security expert in
<AlanBell> who will wipe it and reinstall it
<dwatkins> AlanBell: perhaps, but they might also take into consideration the rest of the network and what else might have happened
<mungbean> yes, i'm looking at a clone of the vm
<mungbean> event logs were wiped by the kiddie
<mungbean> just interested at the level of tinkering they've done
<dwatkins> what does it serve, I'm curious
<mungbean> it's impossible afaik to determine if they initiated further rdesktop connections
<dwatkins> yeah, unless you have detailled network access logs
<mungbean> only rejects
<dwatkins> if you're lucky there might be some kind of history in the rdesktop client, but I doubt it
<mungbean> i'll try that
<mungbean> could have been colleagues tho
<dwatkins> they might also have downloaded their own standalone client of any kind
<dwatkins> I hope the machine is on a DMZ
<mungbean> no comment
<dwatkins> :(
<mungbean> nothing to do with me
<dwatkins> A team that I work with recently had a machine compromised by an SQL injection attack.
<mungbean> ruby on rails?
<dwatkins> I don't know what the server runs, it's a website with a forum, that's all I know.
<mungbean> phpbb was designed to be hacked
<dwatkins> it was?
<mungbean> not officially
<mungbean> but its a running battle to keep un to date with the security alerts. and what if the alert is released while you're asleep
<mungbean> bosh
<dwatkins> yeah, I have a wordpress blog, it handles it well
<brobostigon> question, can i connect rpi model-b, directly from composite output into an earial input on my tv ?
<AlanBell> no
<brobostigon> ok.
<AlanBell> composite in, a yellow coax
<AlanBell> audio red/black lead will do fine
<daubers> AlanBell: Composite shouldn't be coax.....
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i have yllow on rpi end, so that needs to be yellow on tv end ?
<daubers> brobostigon: Yes
<dwatkins> Composite can be used with AV inputs, e.g. SCART or a similar yellow video input connector, not with an aerial in (unless you have a converter)
<AlanBell> daubers: quite right, not coax
<brobostigon> daubers: ok, let me try again.
<dwatkins> you can get BNC converters, but they need to be the right impedence, most TVs have a yellow composite in
<brobostigon> ok, thank you dwatkins
<dwatkins> welcome
<dwatkins> you can also get HDMI -> DVI cables, Amazon have a cheap 'basic' one
<popey> does the pi do audio over hdmi?
<dwatkins> popey: yes, although it also has a 3.5mm jack, so you choose in software which to use
<brobostigon> will it show up, as on of the av channels on the tv end?
<popey> should do or wont be much point having the port âº
<dwatkins> My TV doesn't detect whether or not there's anything plugged in to the SCART or AV inputs, but with HDMI it can tell if a device is switched on or not.
<brobostigon> popey: ok.
<dwatkins> oh right, yeah, AV
<dwatkins> what kind of cable are you using, brobostigon?
<JohnRobert> can you actually get pi's delivered fairly quick now?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i am using, from what i can see, a normal composite cable.
<kvarley> JohnRobert: Yeah, within a week
<mungbean> what present should i buy my borther in law who did me a big favour? he already hs a rpi
<mungbean> http://www.w2comp.com/detail.asp?catid=74585&Pdtid=663086 is looking good
<dwatkins> brobostigon: ah ok cool
<brobostigon> dwatkins: although, i think, the body of the connector is too big, and it bangs up against the tv's casing.
<dwatkins> shame the spec of cables doesn't include this sort of information
<dwatkins> I'm forever having issues with headphones like that
<brobostigon> that might be the issue.
<NET||abuse> hi folks, got a question on mtp. trying to get my head around using it in a sane way, is there one?
<NET||abuse> the latency on mtp-connect just seems completely unworkable.
<NET||abuse> gmtp is just hanging forever
<NET||abuse> i have gmtp sometimes working, with patients between commads]#
<directhex> mtp *does* come with a bunch of latency. whish is why you're meant to open a connection and hold it open, caching the state of the target device
<NET||abuse> well, can't find a discussion on how to use it more effectively? other than messing with mtpfs and fstab
<NET||abuse> i'm happy to use something like gmtp
<NET||abuse> but every single action is just sooo slow.
<NET||abuse> i tried running mtp-connect --sendifle somefile.avi [folder_id]  and it just errors out
<NET||abuse> so command line doesn't seem any more useful.
<NET||abuse> anyway, just kind of frustrating that working with andoid and linux is so hard, android is meant to be OUR thing!
<mungbean> if telnet isn't on my box how can i use netcat to check a port is open?
<mungbean> nc 1.2.3.4 22 isn't working
<NET||abuse> netstat -tap
<NET||abuse> oh, check a remote box?
<NET||abuse> nmap -sP 1.2.3.0/24 :) scan the whole subnet
<dwatkins> mungbean: you need to listen on the server first: nc -l 12345
<mungbean> then you earn the name of net abuse
<NET||abuse> :)
<dwatkins> on the client, you then connect via hostname or IP address: nc 192.168.1.3 12345
<shauno> heh, I actually use -sP /24 far, far too often
<dwatkins> ports under 1024 require root
<NET||abuse> :P
<NET||abuse> dashsP should be a nick
<mungbean> yeah, doesn't work, i don't have root on this box to check iptablse
<NET||abuse> meh, i'll never use it :)
<dwatkins> netstat -rn
<dwatkins> that'll show the IP routing table for a non-root user
<dwatkins> oh you mean the firewall, sorry, ignore me
<mungbean> i needed -v on my command since 3389 doesn't talk back
<mungbean> on my nc command
<d3ngar> Hi there
<d3ngar> I have a problem with SSH. I'm trying to automatically connect to another server via key, but I keep getting asked the key passphrase
<d3ngar> I read that I can disable that by editing the ssh_config file and switching the batchmode to yes
<d3ngar> But when I do that, SSH won't connect
<SuperMatt> your SSH key has a passphrase on it, you will have to remove the passphrase if you want your connection to be frictionless
<SuperMatt> with ssh-keygen -p
<SuperMatt> the key passphrase is used to unencrypt the private key, so nothing else you do will help
<d3ngar> Really?
<d3ngar> Well, that sorta makes sense
<d3ngar> But is disappointing
<d3ngar> Thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> you're welcome
<SuperMatt> if you're in a gui, you can use the password manager to save the password, but it will not work for tty
<d3ngar> That's alright then
<d3ngar> I'm thinking about it
<d3ngar> I could still use an expect script to automate this and provider the passphrase automatically, no?
<SuperMatt> essentially, if you want an automatic job, you're going to have to remove the passphrase
<SuperMatt> you can, but then your passphrase is in plaintext somewhere
<SuperMatt> which is just as useless as not having the passphrase
<SuperMatt> it's a level of complexity you really don't need
<d3ngar> Alright
<d3ngar> Thanks!
<dwatkins> isn't there a passphrase manager for the command line that works on a per-session basis?
 * dwatkins heads home
<brobostigon> woop. got it working, i stripped back one of the composite sockets casing, so it would in the av input on the tv, without hitting the tvs casing. :)
<brobostigon> fit in*
<SuperEngineer> next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00???
<AlanBell> gosh
<SuperEngineer> so that would be a "whoops" then
<AlanBell> we should put that back a few days and send a reminder to people who may have forgotten all about it
<SuperEngineer> +1
<brobostigon> good plan.
<SuperEngineer> While you're there AlanBell ... tomorrow [or Friday] I pick up my Â£200 bare metal ZooStorm from Argos
<SuperEngineer> ...I have looked after their store pooters in previous times & therefore friendly with local mngr
<SuperEngineer> my plan is... givre them wonga... speak to manager.. get permission for me to drop off some Ubuntu CDs to hand out with similar.
<SuperEngineer> ...are there any 12.04 [lts] official CDs hanging around anywhere?
<AlanBell> there are some 12.04 and 12.10 CDs, yes
<SuperEngineer> ooo!
<AlanBell> I am in Farnham and visit London every so often
<AlanBell> or I can post stuff if you sort out the postage somehow http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
<SuperEngineer> can you send an address to... permission to DM pretty please?
<AlanBell> sure
<solarcloud_3scrn> SuperEngineer I sent Â£5 (in a enveloped money pouch)to this address :: http://www.libertus.co.uk/contact-us  :: the DVD arried within week !!
<solarcloud_3scrn> **... within a week.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-10
<neuro> grrr, sky
<daftykins> *shakes fist toward the heavens*
<daftykins> what's it done? :)
<neuro> dropped me offline for 10 mins
<neuro> and just as i was swinging my LAN across to BT, it came back
<neuro> i really need to get pfsense up and running with proper connection monitoring
<daftykins> two ISPs?
<neuro> ya
<neuro> sky fibre unlimited pro and bt infinity 2
<daftykins> this an office?
<neuro> 2x 80Mbps down, 2x 20Mbps up
<neuro> no
<daftykins> how rather greedy
<solarcloud_3scrn> nuro,can you torrent ?
<neuro> greedy
<neuro> ?
<neuro> solarcloud_3scrn: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
<solarcloud_3scrn> are you allowed to torrent ?
<neuro> sure
<solarcloud_3scrn> sweet.
<neuro> sky is a completely unlimited connection with no FUP
<solarcloud_3scrn> \fUP ?
<neuro> BT say they'll throttle p2p at peak times, but unlimited otherwise
<neuro> Fair Use Policy
<solarcloud_3scrn> ok
<neuro> but i tend to encrypt torrent traffic, so i've never seen BT throttle my traffic
<daftykins> yeah it sounds a bit much for one user
<solarcloud_3scrn> i didn't think you could torrent in the UK, that's all.
<neuro> lol wut?
<daftykins> lol? of course you can, it's a protocol not a law
<solarcloud_3scrn> oh OK.
<neuro> torrenting copyrighted material is illegal (copyright infringement)
<neuro> but that's the same as transferring copyrighted material over http
<neuro> or nntp
<neuro> or ftp
<neuro> or through the post
<neuro> the medium isn't the issue
<neuro> why do you think ubuntu (from a london-based company) allows you to torrent their ISOs?
<neuro> daftykins: and why do you think it's greedy or too much for one user?
<solarcloud_3scrn> so if I got sky unlimited pro .. I wouldn't have any monitors at the ISP, right ?
<neuro> solarcloud_3scrn: they adhere to uk legislation
<neuro> so they block stuff according to the iwf cleanfeed
<daftykins> neuro: must cost a bit :) mostly 'cause i get by on 16Mb down i guess
<neuro> and they were legally required to block the pirate bay
<solarcloud_3scrn> so that's a No, then.
<neuro> but apart from that you can do what you like, within legal limits of course
<neuro> most ISPs don't actually "monitor" what you're doing, they have better things to do
<neuro> this is why ISPs have generally resisted government calls for ISPs to police their users activities
<solarcloud_3scrn> does it matter if you have a VPN ?
<AlanBell> indeed, mostly what ISPs want you to do is not phone them. Just quietly pay the bill, and don't break anything.
<neuro> what do you mean "does it matter"?
<solarcloud_3scrn> will you still be picked up. ??
<neuro> "picked up"?
<neuro> ISPs don't watch what you're doing
<solarcloud_3scrn> as a ill. downloader .
<neuro> whether or not a third party will try to track torrent activity by connecting to trackers is another matter
<neuro> then again, this is why i generally don't use public trackers *cough*
<solarcloud_3scrn> k
<neuro> i recall downloading an episode of Battlestar Galactica the morning after it aired in the US
<neuro> took me 30 minutes to download it
<neuro> as soon as it was finished, i stopped the torrent and quit my client
<neuro> three days later, i had one of those "oi, you were downloading battlestar.galactica.blah.blah.mkv, stop it" emails
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. yeah, we don't have that here .. IoM.
<neuro> granted this was years ago, but since then i make sure i use private trackers, and use the encrypted-peers-only option in my clients and ... something else, forgotten :P
<solarcloud_3scrn> we pay an extra gov. rate that goes to the film/ entert. industry .. Â£1 a month I think.
<neuro> errr
<neuro> ok?
<solarcloud_3scrn> solves that one , hay ?
<neuro> you sure about that?
<solarcloud_3scrn> yep.
<solarcloud_3scrn> i dloaded terrabytes since 2044 ...
<solarcloud_3scrn> **2004.
<ormiret> solarcloud_3scrn: where are you?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Isle of Man.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Mark lives down the road.
<neuro> can you cite something that you're talking about?
<daftykins> solarcloud_3scrn: why are you asking so many shifty questions?
<solarcloud_3scrn> the law .. i did have a youtube vid. but I've lost it.
<solarcloud_3scrn> just seeing if the UK is worth it .. seems it's not.
<neuro> well if a youtube video said it ... ;)
<daftykins> to move to?
<neuro> wait, you're saying the uk isn't worth living in because of robust copyright infringement controls?
<solarcloud_3scrn> (it was a politcian ).
<solarcloud_3scrn> yep.
<solarcloud_3scrn> we dont have that law here.
<neuro> wat?!
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeh , I'm watching 7 psycopaths right now.
<neuro> i could be watching it as well, it's sitting on my nas right now
<solarcloud_3scrn> manx.. it's a freedom to florish..
<daftykins> solarcloud_3scrn: i'm in the Channel Islands, most of the law is copied over from England. i'd be surprised if you're as exempt as you think you are
<neuro> you're right
<solarcloud_3scrn> well n-one has ever questioned/ emailed me .. and I have proof that no one has been prosecuted. i know a lawyer.
<neuro> IoM has a lot of UK copyright law and agreements extended to it
<neuro> and
<neuro> all the articles i'm finally finding about this
<neuro> are for a *proposal* for a Â£1/mo tax to permit unlimited MUSIC usage in IoM
<neuro> all from around jan/feb 2009
<daftykins> i've heard people get letters / emails / phone calls from our main ISP when they're using public torrents. if you do that you might as well phone the RIAA/MPAA and tell 'em what you've been getting
<daftykins> public = fail
<neuro> :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> gotta go . the films getting to a goodie ...
<neuro> well before you go
<daftykins> enjoy
<neuro> just bear in mind i think you're operating under a falsehood
<neuro> you're just as liable when downloading infringing material in the IoM as you are in the UK
<neuro> you just haven't been caught yet :)
<neuro> i honestly can't find anything that says this was implemented
<neuro> yeah, i don't think this ever happened
<neuro> http://www.isleofman.com/News/details/36724/music-download-deal-a-long-way-off-
<daftykins> it does sound unlikely to be granted
<daftykins> neuro: what do you pay for each of those services?
<neuro> um
<neuro> iirc 30 for sky, 26 for bt
<neuro> plus line rental for both
<daftykins> daym
<daftykins> they do VDSL over here now, 40Mb/2Mb - Â£35/mo with line rental Â£9.70/m ish
<daftykins> no caps or FUP either
<neuro> "here"?
<daftykins> Guernsey
<neuro> right
<neuro> well that's what sky's initial offering was
<neuro> 40 down 2 up
<daftykins> yeah i want more upload for sure =/
<neuro> i speed bumped mine when sky announced pro (80/20)
 * ormiret waits very impatiently to get anything beyond ADSL2
<daftykins> useless for hosting things from home without :>
<daftykins> ormiret: where are you? :)
<neuro> probably somewhere that openreach hasn't enabled cabs for vdsl yet
<ormiret> Aberdeen; there is better in some of the city but not for me yet.
<daftykins> ah
<neuro> ah yer a chuchter!
<daftykins> i've never been up north. everyone always says not to bother...
<neuro> WAT?
<neuro> aberdeen is awesome
<neuro> it has a beach and everything
<daftykins> i've enough beaches where i am :>
<neuro> lol
<ormiret> You probably don't get much ice on your beaches though.
<daftykins> nope rarely there's any snow over here, if any settles it's only overnight and melts quite quickly
<daftykins> though there was enough for a sled run down a hill back in '96
<daftykins> that was the only proper snow i've seen in my life
<neuro> aww, bless :)
<daftykins> well, locally i should qualify
<daftykins> went snowboarding last March ^_^
<solarcloud_3scrn> did you use gnu.com ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> just ordered another programming book .. and a lead for my Amilo/fujitsu off amazon .. hope it worx well.
<solarcloud_3scrn> they alway say I could have it by Friday.. then when i've bought; say the delivery could take 14 days ! .. go figure.
<neuro> because the amazon default is to assume if you use 1-day delivery and you're in the UK, you'll get it on friday
<solarcloud_3scrn> hope so.
<neuro> you *could* have it by friday ... if you pay extra ... and you're in the UK
<daftykins> solarcloud_3scrn: what's the IoM postal service like? slow/fast?
<solarcloud_3scrn> same .. we dnt have secong class post though.
<daftykins> ours is pretty bad and gone down to 5 deliveries a week since LVCR (low value consignment relief) got made unlawful
<daftykins> HMV's warehouse closed
<daftykins> play.com just closed
<daftykins> (they were based out of Jersey)
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeah , I think Jersey is pretty screwed asfar as a VAT juristiction . too many overlords IMHO.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Is the customer service at shops generally kack or ok ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> IoM.. has the worst in EU by far.
<daftykins> what shops where?
<solarcloud_3scrn> in Jersey.
<daftykins> i don't live there
<solarcloud_3scrn> right.
<daftykins> i'm on Guernsey, but most low jobs like retail are done by Latvian immigrants now
<solarcloud_3scrn> sounds familiar.
<daftykins> so you get what you can explain between languages ^_^
<solarcloud_3scrn> do you know a property website for the channel islands ?
<daftykins> i just recently bought a house, there were over 15 for my island alone
<daftykins> trust me it's pricey :)
<daftykins> start with www.martelmaides.co.uk
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
<daftykins> you'll need to select either open or local market, local market are local houses for LOCAL PEOPLE! as the phrase goes
<solarcloud_3scrn> so it's Â£700k , basically.
<daftykins> errr no
<daftykins> what did you look at?
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.martelmaides.co.uk/properties?filter[market]=Open&filter[rent_or_buy]=Buy&filter[minimum_bedrooms]=1&filter[parish]=any&filter[price_range]=0-1000000
<daftykins> oh, open
<daftykins> ooh that first one is on the smaller island of Sark too
<solarcloud_3scrn> well I'm not local, am I ?
<daftykins> hope you like horse and carriage rides
<solarcloud_3scrn> how much d you think the first one is worth ?
<daftykins> i'm too youthful to have any practical knowledge
<daftykins> Sark is different, nobody's allowed to own a house over there
<solarcloud_3scrn> surething.
<daftykins> you can only sort of - hold a mortgage for a set period of time as far as i understand
<daftykins> were you born on the IoM or are you originally from the US?
<solarcloud_3scrn> no I'm manx.
<solarcloud_3scrn> born here.
<solarcloud_3scrn> I think there  are still direct AFAs I know.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **direct flights..
<daftykins> AFA 0o
<daftykins> that a local term?
<solarcloud_3scrn> as far as ...
<solarcloud_3scrn> there isn't much of a hacking community here ..
 * solarcloud_3scrn must change that ... (Ment. note :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> whats it like on Guernsey ??
<daftykins> err
<daftykins> simple
<solarcloud_3scrn> guess not.
<daftykins> 'hacking' ? :P
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeah.
<solarcloud_3scrn> like a hackspace etc ..
<daftykins> are you talking about the general messing around with technology, or the unlawful gaining access kind? :)
<daftykins> the term has been utterly destroyed by the media of late
<solarcloud_3scrn> 1st.
<daftykins> ah there's no community here
<daftykins> some of the UK bunch in here recommended starting a LUG
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeah, we do have a LUG..
<daftykins> doing better than here then
<solarcloud_3scrn> always needs fresh blood for the grinder, as always.
<solarcloud_3scrn> It's strange, because everyone uses computers, but no-one questions them .. odd really.
<solarcloud_3scrn> I blame warranties..
<ormiret> It's much the same for non-computer things too. Very few people know much about how their car works.
<solarcloud_3scrn> true. i dont, but  I wanna electric one
 * solarcloud_3scrn scans ebay/uk for an electric car .....
<solarcloud_3scrn> mm 49 electric cars .. Â£3.5k to Â£32k .. no tesla cars yet :(
<daftykins> i don't think any electric car designer has thought properly long-long term about their creations
<daftykins> so the batteries die and you do... what exactly? :D
<neuro> walk
<daftykins> 'xactly
<solarcloud_3scrn> Why do they have to look like they are from Mars ?? http://goo.gl/lSQsE
<neuro> because the french are mental
<neuro> http://www.teslamotors.com/models
<solarcloud_3scrn> cant get tesla here can we ?
<neuro> nope
<daftykins> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Renault-TWIZY-Colour-Electric-White-Automatic-/00/$T2eC16dHJGYE9noojjIsBQVw!EuH0!~~_12.JPG
<daftykins> rofl
<solarcloud_3scrn> looks like it's a car that a vicar would drive or mental-a-la francais , then.
<solarcloud_3scrn> they should open source the whole thing ;)
<daftykins> your english is so incredibly incoherent, i don't quite get why it is o0
<solarcloud_3scrn> soz about that ..
<solarcloud_3scrn> Perhaps .. these aren't the droids you are looking for ....
<daftykins> does anyone actually speak the local gaelic over there?
<neuro> they should open source a car?
<neuro> oh good grief
<neuro> internet down again
<solarcloud_3scrn> yes and Yes, definately.
 * neuro shakes fist at sky
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey's cat won't ike that.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **like
<neuro> hmm, it's back
<neuro> wonder what's going on
<neuro> waaaaooooow
<neuro> http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx
<neuro> i hadn't seen *that* before
<neuro> that's gorgeous
<solarcloud_3scrn> BTW .. it's out .. http://goo.gl/PhaLB
<neuro> ooh i was wrong
<neuro> deliveries of model S in UK begin mid 2013
<solarcloud_3scrn> sounds good.
<neuro> standard model purchase requires Â£4K "reservation payment"
<neuro> signature model requires Â£30K
<neuro> https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/own#/model-s
<solarcloud_3scrn> how much is the cheapest ?it's $50k in us ??
<neuro> yup
<solarcloud_3scrn> what's that Â£35k here, then ?
<neuro> "Prices do not include Tesla Personal Delivery, Final Inspection, Prep and Coordination fee, taxes, license and title fees, or regionally required equipment, service, and charges."
<neuro> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=usdgbp
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
<solarcloud_3scrn> err, ok .. whats your point ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeh, so I was right. Soooo ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I've got to get back to trading, So I see you in the morning, bye all.
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'll
<daftykins> and then it was that the desktop BSOD'd
<daftykins> and the intel G2 SSD was no longer detected
<daftykins> oh yay.
<daftykins> morning all o/
<popey> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> orning all
<daftykins> nothing like a good power cycle to sort that out
<daftykins> Windows is hilarious when it's throwing its' toys out of the pram though
<daftykins> nice big hex error trying to run notepad of all programs :>
<daftykins> yet i continued typing on irssi via KiTTY and playing an HD TV ep over the network 0o
<dwatkins> sounds like a hardware problem
<dwatkins> or was this not an actual OS crash, daftykins?
<daftykins> lolz
<daftykins> yeah it went like that then BSOD'd
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm on the same system again right now as if nothing happened
<dwatkins> heh, I've even had Windows 8 BSOD on me a couple times, but I wasn't entirely surprised.
<daftykins> i can't comment on 8, but i've never had any BSODs on XP or 7 that haven't been hardware/overclocking related
<daftykins> overclocking being something FAR in my past :)
<dwatkins> likewise, I suspect it might have been related to some driver I was installing that wasn't properly compatible with Win8.
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> yeah i'm not sure what to make of this one
<daftykins> i've seen the intel X25-M G2 SSD i've got fail to be detected by BIOS twice, i just power cycle and back she comes
<dwatkins> even in IDE mode?
<dwatkins> just wondering if that might indicate a software/firmware problem as opposed to a hardware problem. It's obviously not having an issue spinning-up in time ;)
 * dwatkins wishes people would read more than just the first line of e-mails
<daftykins> well it'll fail to boot in PATA mode :)
<daftykins> since i installed in AHCI mode
<daftykins> there's seriously something wrong with my brain
<daftykins> i was about to type 'most other' and it turned into 'mother' until i saw what i'd done
<dwatkins> the brain does funny things with words somewins
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> dwatkins: ;D
<daftykins> davmor2: i doff my cap to you sir
<davmor2> daftykins: don't do that dude your head will get cold
<daftykins> such was the motivation to be polite, i threw caution to the wind
<dwatkins> I don't remove my cap when doffing it.
<dwatkins> Clearly I'm not doing it right.
<daftykins> for some reason i really want to cook pasta.
<Laney> fogggggggggggyyyyyyyy
<directhex> it was pretty foggy yesterday
<mungbean> anyone know if it's straightforward to mount vmdk files in linux?
<mungbean> (modern ones?)
<dwatkins> http://superuser.com/questions/307525/how-to-mount-a-vmdk-vmware-virtual-harddisk-outside-of-the-virtual-machine
<directhex> how does kpartx like them?
<mungbean> hmm, seems to be an .exe
<dwatkins> oh sorry, do you have a vmware-mount.pl, mungbean?
<mungbean> no, is that what i need?
<dwatkins> I believe so, sorry - I thought that superuser article would link to it
<bigcalm_laptop> Ahoy
<mungbean> that seems v old
<mungbean> vmware images have changed
<Azelphur> Anyone know how I would go about giving a computer two hostnames?
<Azelphur> My router is running dd-wrt
<daftykins> why would you do that D:
<Azelphur> daftykins: I have one machine which is both server, and tv
<Azelphur> but later on I may split it into two separate boxes
<directhex> you can't give a computer 2 hostnames, but you can make it resolve from more than one thing depending on the DNS setup you use
<daftykins> or just hax your hosts file
<Azelphur> I wonder if I can just hax the hosts file in dd-wrt
<directhex> what DNS server runs on dd-wrt?
<directhex> i'd guess dnsmasq
<Azelphur> yep, dnsmasq
<Azelphur> looks like it doesn't
<Azelphur> directhex: with dnsmasq, I tried adding address=/tv/192.168.1.11
<Azelphur> which worked, but had the side effect of also hijacking *.tv
<daftykins> do i go play with RAID or do i go to sleep, hrmm
<Azelphur> so, everything.tv would resolve to 192.168.1.11 lol
<daftykins> hehehe :D
<daftykins> nothing like messing with storage setups when sleep deprived amirite?
<Azelphur> oh hey, hosts file hack works
<daftykins> two entries for each name at the same IP?
<daftykins> no reason it wouldn't
<Azelphur> yep
<daftykins> heh i was trying to do the same on a mac recently and it wasn't working, then i realise i had the IP and name the wrong way 'round :(
<dw4tkins> I use dnsmasq, Azelphur - it uses the hosts file and a nice simple little config file to setup an DHCP and DNS server for a small network
<Azelphur> cool
<Azelphur> well yea, got it working with my hosts hack now, which is good my nfc tags are back working :P
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> to the celebratorium!
<daftykins> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9f90x9L1W1qzs532o1_250.jpg
<daftykins> omg.
<dw4tkins> That's awesome, daftykins
<daftykins> dw4tkins: :D
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dw4tkins> wotcher brobostigon, how's the Pi?
<brobostigon> dw4tkins: go it to output fine, except for one thing, there is a band on the left hand side, that is cut off by the tv, and i cant quite work out, hot to get it right.
<brobostigon> got*
<brobostigon> how*
<daftykins> had some overscan troubles?
<brobostigon> dw4tkins: i know it is a parameter in /boot/config* but i cant work out what, i think, or a parameter in its xorg.conf.
<dw4tkins> hmm, not just a case of selecting the relevant zoom mode on the TV?
<brobostigon> daftykins: is that what it is called, ah.
<dw4tkins> I assume you're booting with the TV already connected and switched to that input
<daftykins> when the picture falls off the sides ja
<brobostigon> dw4tkins: yep.
<dw4tkins> there's an IRC channel, #raspberrypi - they should know
<brobostigon> both are set to 4/3
<brobostigon> dw4tkins: ok, i will ask them.
<brobostigon> daftykins: so i adjust the overscan parameters?
<daftykins> er well not for just one side being funny
<dw4tkins> iirc you need to be registered to have voice in #raspberrypi
<daftykins> usually overscan by either the TV or device is when the picture looks like it's been zoomed in on
<daftykins> so that it's 'off' on all 4 sides
<brobostigon> daftykins: nothing is missing, but on that left side.
<daftykins> definitely persists across 'reboots' ?
<brobostigon> yes.
<daftykins> how funky. could be worth playing with the TV options, i don't own an r-pi though so the channel might be the best route to take
<brobostigon> or i just try a different format like 16/9 ?
<daftykins> i'd have thought you'd be in 16:9 mode already if that's the aspect ratio of your TV
<brobostigon> the normal, i jjust checked for it, is/was set to 4/3
<daftykins> i'd say 16:9 was normal these days :) 4:3 aspect is ghettooooo!
<popey> surely you're using composite?
<brobostigon> ok, i will try 16:9.
<brobostigon> popey: i am, yes.
<popey> set resolution to 720x576?
<popey> http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=8265
<popey> all well documented on their forums
<brobostigon> ah, i will try that, thank you popey
<daftykins> oh i was more just being a semantic pedant. i was assuming you were on a modern LCD TV over HDMI
<daftykins> composite, ouchies
<mungbean> directhex: dw4tkins , in repsonse to earlier question, after installing vmware-player latest version, then vmware-mount gets installed too, and allows me to mout it
<d3ngar> Hi there, I'm struggling with a mysql "select into outfile"
<d3ngar> Some research suggested that this has something to do with apparmor and that I need to whitelist directories for mysqld>
<d3ngar> But I have done this, restarted both mySQL and Apparmor and I still can't write to a file
<d3ngar> Errcode: 13
<d3ngar> Any clues?
<dw4tkins> does the account under which the SQL daemon is running have permission to write the file, d3ngar?
<popey> http://www.solid-run.com/cubox
<d3ngar> dw4tkins: yes, absolutley
<d3ngar> The folder is ~/Public/
<d3ngar> NAd i chmod it to 777
<dw4tkins> d3ngar: is the daemon running as the user?
<dw4tkins> ah ok, in that case all I can suggest is checking the SQL server logs
<d3ngar> The deamon? the deamon of mysql is running as mysql
<diplo> d3ngar: I had that... new issue I believe with mysqk5 something
<diplo> Have to add a setting to my.cnf
 * diplo looks up
<xnox> my postman just told me I buy too much from amazon.
<d3ngar> dw4tkins: I checked the logs, they are empty
<d3ngar> diplo: thanks!
<Laney> I have started to recognise the delivery people by their different knocks
<dw4tkins> xnox: my postwoman (our receptionist) regularly pokes fun at me for this
<xnox> Laney: =))))
<Azelphur> I'm using xfce, does anyone know how I'd tell it to use the gnome screensaver?
<diplo> It sort of worked, ( just jogging memory ) but still had issues partially, moved the code to mysqli php statement
<xnox> time of delivery as well.
<Laney> xnox: ordered something nice?
<xnox> nah just crap: little miss sunshine bug for my sister birthday, non-tangle headphones, life in uk (study guide for citizenship), a backpack.....
<d3ngar> That's ridicolous: I can't really write a script for this piping out 40m lines!
<Laney> haha
<d3ngar> I just need to do this once
<Laney> pity you having to do that citizenship test
<diplo> You just using cli at the mo d3ngar  ?
<d3ngar> yes
<d3ngar> I also have the GUI and other tools, but for the size of the outfile, it would be good to do this a very simple way
<d3ngar> So using the mysql cli is the best thing, I guess
<dw4tkins> when the zombipocalypse happens, delivery people will have to wear bodyarmor.
<diplo> local-infile=1 in my.cnf sort of fixed it from memory ( few months ago )
<diplo> or can mysql --local-infile -u etc etc
<diplo> We had this issue with a webhost after an upgrade
<diplo> Worked fine in dev and just about everywhere apart from our web hosts :/
<d3ngar> diplo: yes, I understand
<d3ngar> It's fine when it's your webhost, cause you can blame them
<diplo> That local-infile needs to be in mysql/mysqld I sections i believe
<d3ngar> but it's your own server, then you should just expect some things to work
<diplo> Supposedly a security prevention in newer versions of mysql
<d3ngar> BS, I say
<diplo> And I guess set per distro on how secure they are making it
<d3ngar> Why the h*ll would mysqldump then still work fine?
<d3ngar> I just don't want to use MySQL dump, cause it prints so much extra rubbish in the file that I'd have to clear
<d3ngar> simple select command does this work much better and you can choose your own delimiter
<d3ngar> (mine's a pipe)
<ormiret> mysqldump is the client accessing files, the infile stuff is for the server doing that.
<d3ngar> ormiret: fair point!
<d3ngar> local-infile=1 still didn't work
<brobostigon> ok, that kinda works, in 16:9 at 720:576, but it is still going over the edges. hmmm,
<d3ngar> Is there really no other way than writing a script?
<popey> overscan...
<d3ngar> Why do I have to resort to Python to do something that should be straightforward?
<brobostigon> popey: ok, so i just adjust those overscan parameters that are in config.txt ?
<popey> I assume so
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> let me try.
<diplo> d3ngar: You doing something like mysql -h ... -u ... db -e 'Select foo from bar' > /tmp/file.txt type dump ?
<bigcalm_laptop> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm_laptop> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<mgdm> !pong
<lubotu3> pong is an old atari game. It's fun!
<mgdm> :)
<mungbean> anyone know of an rkhunter for windows?
<dw4tkins> rkhunter?
<mgdm> mungbean: spybot?
<mungbean> i have readonly mounts of a clean and compromised windows servers and want to look for rootkits on the compromised one
<mungbean> am starting by hashing the binaries on both
<mungbean> but there must be tools available
<popey> isnt that what antivirus packages are for?
<dw4tkins> I vaguely remember there was some bootable antivirus system, probably a commercial thing though.
<popey> microsoft have a tool to do it iirc
<popey> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/841290
<popey>  File Checksum Integrity Verifier (FCIV)
<mungbean> cool. i am on a linux box because i don't want to boot the machines though
<mungbean> offline analysis
<mungbean> maybe clamav can search it though
<popey> or... rkhunter?
<mungbean> i thought rkhunter only looks for linux rootkits
<popey> it does checksumming
<popey> so you could do the comparison thing you said you wanted
<mungbean> sysinternals had some tools but not on server 2008
<mungbean> since MS bought them yay
<mungbean> gmer is a rootkit detector for win
<mungbean> they all require booting the OS..how lame
<diplo> mungbean: You in a rush for this ? A friend of mine does this sort of stuff all the time but away snow boarding atm
<mungbean> yes unfortuantely
<mungbean> however they are VMs so i will take a copy of the vm again to boot it
<diplo> Well if you're still stuck after the weekend I can ask him
<mungbean> maybe i'll find an irc channel for this specific issue
<diplo> He got into it over the last 2 years with Cyber security challenge and stuff like that
<popey> marxjohnson: has the front cover of your n7 case curled up at the corners like an old sandwich?
 * xnox got very confused. I raised the volume in the sound indicator and the music played by phone did not increase volume.
<mgdm> heh heh
<mgdm> been there, done that
<mungbean> any way to crack a password protected rar file?
<directhex> dictionary attack?
<mungbean> the pwned server i'm looking at involved downloading a .rar fie with a botnet kit in it
<mungbean> can see the file listing only
<shauno> tried googling the filenames (of the contents) and seeing if anyone's gone before you?
<mungbean> yeah :(
<mungbean> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1516943/
<popey> the key is probably in the payload
<popey> oh nice, if you unpack that it'll autorun the .bat file
<popey> looks like http://home.mcafee.com/virusinfo/virusprofile.aspx?key=568867
<mungbean> after that, storm is installed
<mungbean> and a proxy is run
<mungbean> what do u mean in english popey "the key is probably in the payload"
<popey> well something grabbed the rar, didnt it
<popey> that payload which pulled in the rar will have the key in it
<popey> the password
<mungbean> possibly a person (via rdesktop)
<popey> really!?
<mungbean> nothing to do with me
<mungbean> but yes, via rdesktop
<popey> usually there's a tiny stub which comes down from a website via XSS attack of somekind, which gets the next stage (your rar file), unpack/decrypts it and runs it
<mungbean> hard to say the course of events
<popey> so you might find something odd in the internet history
<popey> surely if via rdesktop you have the event log which shows who connected and when?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> we saw that
<mungbean> only event in internet history is 1 ip
<mungbean> downloading the rar
<feisar> how can I install grub when I'm running raid1?
<feisar> grub-install /dev/sda
<feisar> /dev/mapper/../dm-0 does not have any corresponding BIOS drive.
<dw4tkins> I suspect you need to make a /boot that's visible to the BIOS as a separate partition from the RAID array, feisar
<feisar> dw4tkins: thanks for the reply but I just fixed it... it is possible to raid1 the whole system you just need to install grub to both drive's mbrs
<feisar> (i did it by purging and installing grub-pc)
<dw4tkins> aha neat, feisar - bear in mind that you probably need to do that same operation every time you update the kernel etc. so they are stil in sync
<feisar> oh right, I hadn't thought of that
<dw4tkins> I've seen problems like that on large systems due to manual propagation of /boot
<feisar> yes, of course, I guess the automatic script will just install to one drive
<dw4tkins> a disk fails, the system can't be booted because although the / filesystems were in sync, /boot wasn't
<feisar> well I think /boot will be in my case because it's part of the raid
<feisar> *i think
<feisar> it's one raid device with lvm on top of it
<dw4tkins> you may also need to be careful with what modules are loaded and when, so that it has the RAID array available to load /boot
<dw4tkins> I'm not sure that happens by default at the moment
<brobostigon> the bbc is predicting snow here on saturday,
<popey> yay
<popey> I'll be flying out on saturday
<popey> http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/94403  \o/ sunny
<feisar> dw4tkins: I set up raid1 and LVM using the 12.04 installer and it seems to have gone ok, I think the only manual procedure needed is to install grub to both drives
 * Laney upgrades laptop to raring and promptly notices an upgrade bug he introduced
<Laney> /o\
<popey> whopps
<popey> or oops
<Laney> bah, it's not minimal enough to have shown up in jenkins
<Laney> oh well
<czajkowski> Laney: sit down on the naughty step
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oi no! that's mine and no one is taking it from me :P
<jpds> popey: You're not Launchpad.
<popey> âº
<popey> thankfully!
<bigcalm> Ahoy hoy
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-11
<popey> morning
<daubers> Morning
<dw4tkins> moin moin
<MooDoo> morning
<hoover> Morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Anyone know of a cross distro way of extracting DOCUMENT_ROOT from apache ?
<SuperMatt> once again my bash history is littered with :q and :wq >.<
<diplo> Only way I can think at the moment is to use getenv with php-cli as that's the only thing that will be cross distro, as paths/names of services differ
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> what are you trying to achive?
<diplo> Install script for our app automated
<diplo> So it basically exports from svn and then moves files to the document root
<diplo> At the moment it's hardcoded to /var/www/html for centos
<diplo> But it broke today as it's on ubuntu in /var/www
<diplo> Basically stuff get's exported to a /tmp dir and moved to it's correct location through the script
<SuperMatt> I would honestly just try to work out if it's debian based or redhat based, and plunk it down wherever
<SuperMatt> and the reason I say that is because some people make other changes and move stuff around
<diplo> yeah i did think that as well..
<diplo> but yeah that is exactly the problem
<SuperMatt> my document root is in a completely different place right now
<SuperMatt> you can't predict everything
<SuperMatt> just give people what they need for a default install
<diplo> We don't run all our customers servers and some maybe in /home or /srv
<SuperMatt> if anyone has changed anything, they have to work it out
<BigRedS> diplo: it's pretty easy to parse out of apache
<BigRedS> knowing the servername
<BigRedS> grep the file and line number out of `apache2 -S` (bear in mind that it always prints to stderr for no good reason), then open that file and the next DocumentRoot directive after that line is the document root of that vhost
<BigRedS> nothing distro-specific at all
<diplo> BigRedS: centos uses httpd
<diplo> I guess I could allow for both, cleanest way I found was grabbing it out of php
<BigRedS> oh yeah, still that's just a -f test
<BigRedS> out of php?
<diplo> $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']
<BigRedS> but to do that you need a php document already in the document root
<diplo> php cli and use getenv ?
<popey> AlanBell: Digital Surrey thing looks interesting this month.. a browse around the policy museum included.. http://www.eventbrite.com/event/5204446640/
<Azelphur> I think I really broke Ikea.
<Azelphur> Everything to do with their system I touch seems to break xD
<Azelphur> I've broke their ordering, delivery, and contact systems \o/
<BigRedS> diplo: why would php cli know where a document root is?
<BigRedS> and how would you tell it which one you were interested in?
<diplo> Thought you could grab the $SERVER variable which you can't from the CLI :)
<BigRedS> yeah, you can only get data from the server if the server puts it there
<BigRedS> :)
<diplo> I'll just write a shell script, run this if rh based, run this if debian based
<diplo> ta
<BigRedS> I'd just have the two grepes of apache2 -S or httpd -S and use the one that spits out a line
<BigRedS> you do need to know the servername for that, though, and not just one of the serveraliases
<diplo> apache2 -S need anything else passed to it, getting based user name atm
<BigRedS> getting based user name?
<diplo> heh bad user name
<diplo> It seems that envvars isn't being populated
<diplo> Looking at that now
<BigRedS> ah, you need to have APACHE_RUN_USER and APACHE_RUN_GROUP set I thionk
<BigRedS> which you either used to get by default or used to not need, but has been an issue recently. We use apache2 -S all the time here so it's fixed on almost all the machines incidentally
<BigRedS> oddly, centos's apache doesn't appear to need it
<BigRedS> or httpd
<popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/r/aww/2rR3z
<czajkowski> awwwww
<czajkowski> they are the cutest dogs
<popey> lies
<czajkowski> how could you say no to that face
<directhex> like this:
<directhex> NON!
<Laney> with a rolled up newspaper
<dw4tkins> http://i.imgur.com/aHujI.jpg - kitty saying no, by ignoring dog ;)
<czajkowski> Laney: oi you, back on the naughy step!
<Laney> SO UNFAIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
 * Laney tries to resist buying out come the wolves on vinyl
<Knightwise> on Vinyl ?
<Knightwise> For real ?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it was my christmas pressie
<dw4tkins> If you buy something on vinyl, do you play it once to rip it, then put it away for safe-keeping, Laney?
<Laney> nah
<Laney> i haven't got any super rare collectible stuff
<Laney> it does have a usb connection for ripping though, but i'm not sure if it works on linux
<directhex> ion turntable?
<directhex> those are standard usb sound cards
<Laney> could be
<Laney> i'll try it later
<Laney> oops, my finger slipped
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> Laney: you don't want your finger slipping on vinyl you'll scratch it, or worse still drop it and watch it fly across the room before it shatters into tiny pieces as it hits the wall
<Azelphur> lmfao, a (not very techy) friend of mine just called who I set up with Ubuntu
<Azelphur> Apparently she had one of those "You've got a Virus let us take control of your computer" calls
<Azelphur> long story short, she spent half hour trying to follow their instructions...on Ubuntu
<davmor2> muhahahahaha
<Azelphur> they gave her some mobile number to call back on too
<davmor2> Azelphur: The clue would of been the start of the call that goes, Microsoft or Windows is reporting to us that you have very many viruses :D
<Azelphur> xD
<dw4tkins> Azelphur: that mobile number might be worth passing to the authorities, effectively it's fraud isn't it?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> wonder where we'd pass it to
<Azelphur> she's had two calls off them and apparently they just cycle through numbers.
<davmor2> trading standards
<dw4tkins> unfortunately they're run from abroad, so there might not be a lot we can do
<Laney> doubt it
<Azelphur> indeed
<Laney> probably the cops if anyone
<dw4tkins> I listened to a recording of one, some dutch guy kept them on the line for ages pretending he was doing things to his virtual machine to get as much information as possible out of them
<Azelphur> dw4tkins: yea I saw that too, I could do that
<davmor2> we can stop their incoming line which will be with a UK based Company, However they just then need to change the number they ring in on and you are back to square one
<Azelphur> I have the number to call back so I could just call them xD
<dw4tkins> slippery customers
<Azelphur> davmor2: yea, and they appear to have that automated, so zero effort
<Azelphur> I was thinking it might be more fun to follow the instructions and gather more info, maybe try and mess with their servers a little ;)
<dw4tkins> yeah, Azelphur - a friend of mine was considering taking revenge and having a virtual machine with various virus-laden files in the document directory so if they copy them, they phone-home or otherwise identify them or mess their machines up
<dw4tkins> honeypot
<Azelphur> fun
<dw4tkins> yeah, so long as it doesn't backfire ;)
<Azelphur> I doubt there's much chance of that xD
<dw4tkins> perhaps, I'm just considering the possibilities
<popey> i didnt think they copied stuff, they generally just want to take your money
<davmor2> They get most perturbed when you tell them you can't find the start button and they insist it is on the bottom left and you say no that is my trashcan :D
<Azelphur> hahaha
<davmor2> they also hang up really quickly when you ask for their company name so you know who to sew along with microsoft for passing on personal information about your machine :D
<Azelphur> lol
<dw4tkins> sue? ;)
<dw4tkins> yeah, I imagine as popey says, they're mostly after your credit card to charge you for 'fixing' the problem, although I wouldn't put it past them to install some kind of botnet.
<davmor2> popey: they want money and they also install adware on your system that bogs everything down and then throws up a nice popup that says Pay for product now to remove these pesky viruses :D
<Azelphur> yea, my thoughts exactly
<davmor2> dw4tkins: Yeah that too but a girls name didn't look at all correct
<Azelphur> dw4tkins: could continually give them invalid credit card names from fake identity generator
<Azelphur> that'd be lulzy
<Azelphur> just see how long you can keep them on the line reading out fake number after fake number
<dw4tkins> yeah, or a credit card that's flagged somehow
<ali1234> i kept one of those guys on the line for about half an hour
<ali1234> eventually he twigged and started calling me names
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> we didn't get any more calls though
<ali1234> i heard those operations are run from "legit" call centers out of hours
<Azelphur> fun
<popey> i understood the people doing the calls are convinced they're contracted to MS
<popey> they see nothing wrong
<popey> clearly management do
 * Azelphur shrugs
<czajkowski> danfish: https://t.co/eHedrKiB  This is what Irish GPs have sent to every Irish school!
<ali1234> i like how the first link is blue and the second two are purple
<Azelphur> lol
<mgdm> czajkowski: oooh, fun
<czajkowski> Random odd question
<czajkowski> I have cropped two photos using gimp and now left with a ton of 'white' space background
<czajkowski> any idea how to get rid of this
<czajkowski> I've tried scaling but that's not working
<ali1234> i don't think you cropped it right
<ali1234> wait, is it really white?
<mgdm> czajkowski: there's an 'autocrop image' somewher ein the menus
<ali1234> when you crop it does not resize the window
<ali1234> anyway, rect select then image->crop to selection
<czajkowski> mgdm: ahhh thank you
<czajkowski> thats it
<davmor2> popey: I wonder why VBox plus the X11 driver worked fine for one system and not the other though?
<esmo> t
<mungbean> can i take a dd image of a directory?
<mungbean> (the directory is actually a mount point of a vmware vmdk)
<ali1234> no
<mungbean> ali1234: no matter, i can run foremost on the flat.vmdk file as it is
<mungbean> having a jolly time trying to either crack a password protected rar file or undelete files from a disk
<mungbean> whichever works first
<popey> why do you want to crack it?
<popey> assuming its the rar file that was the exploit on that machine
<mungbean> because it contained a bat file and some exe.s
<mungbean> but didn't contain the storm binaries, so need to know how they got there
<dw4tkins> ah, so the password is encoded in a binary
<dw4tkins> (or dynamically downloaded upon execution, which would actually be quite cunning)
<mungbean> sweet, i banked on a digit only password for the rar
<mungbean> got it at 6 chars
<dw4tkins> nice
<dw4tkins> I assume you're sharing its contents with antivirus companies ;)
<mungbean> scanning the .exe's on virustotal
<mungbean> one of them, sc.exe i assume is to download the storm bot
<mungbean> which the .bat file deletes later
<mungbean> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1520004/
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> doesn't seem to explain the presence of storm
<mungbean> hoewver, next step was that they edited the socks proxy to an open port
<mungbean> could they have uploaded storm via ccproxy?
<directhex> so the fake svhhost.exe is storm? or...?
<davmor2> or it is point windows update at a fake server and they can install whatever the hell they like
<directhex> no, that isn't real svchost.exe
<mungbean> virustotal reports svchost as trojan ccproxy
<directhex> it's just lying about its name etc, so it looks normal
<DJones> Heh, had tou laugh at this https://twitter.com/rkkski/status/288956938778189824/photo/1
<mungbean> https://www.virustotal.com/file/a6e21b69443cc6254a1f4684de73c4d72b81137d1a9951515df8b5b73c265b67/analysis/1357913670/
<directhex> DJones, now i know what a critical failure on wp8 looks like, then
<DJones> I thought it might be fake, after all, the background isn't blue
<directhex> DJones, no, that's a windows boot loader screen
<directhex> looks like the windows boot loader itself is corrupt, so it can't be chain-loaded
<directhex> (all WP8 devices use UEFI, so that's the Windows Boot Manager UEFI app, trying to load the Windows UEFI app)
<ali1234> yeah te amusing part is that that is a htc 8x
<ali1234> so it's not windows 8, it's windows 8 phone
<ali1234> http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/183oekmveb1cxjpg/original.jpg
<directhex> WP8, like WinRT, mandates UEFI for boot. so i can see them just re-using the desktop Windows Boot Manager rather than writing a new one from scratch
<ali1234> yes. and not bothering to remove the error message about "insert windows disc"
<directhex> ifdef is hard. let's go shopping.
<dw4tkins> I really, really hate logfiles which aren't properly delimited.
<dw4tkins> Who writes an application and writes a logfile which uses spaces, tabs and commas, as well as equals signs?
<directhex> dw4tkins, freeswitch upstream
<directhex> also xml!
<dw4tkins> directhex: suffice to say I wish this application were that forward thinking
<directhex> all of them. in one log file
<ali1234> what bout json though?
<directhex> no json in freeswitch logs that i've noticed
<mungbean> anyone shed any ligh on this ccproxy business?
<ali1234> especially malformed json
<directhex> just a totally different format for every module
<dw4tkins> I've given up trying to process this logfile with grep, cut, uniq and sort, it's impossible.
<dw4tkins> All I wanted to do was find out how many users were using a tunnelled connection.
 * dw4tkins misses using linux with his day-job
<dw4tkins> anyone looking for a German and French speaking technical support engineer? ;)
<Laney> NEIN
<MartijnVdS> 9
<brobostigon> neun*
<dw4tkins> heh
<MartijnVdS> time for some of the geekiest music ever :)
<dw4tkins> the Mario theme tune?
<MartijnVdS> http://dftba.com/product/y1/ellen-hardcastle-cd
<dw4tkins> Portal song?
<dw4tkins> ah, I was just about to suggest Chameleon Circuit
<dw4tkins> Hank and John Green are awesome, but I'm biased as John liked my '42' t-shirt ;)
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: I just read 2 of John's books last week :)
<MartijnVdS> they're coming to the UK early February as well
<MartijnVdS> Starting in.. Swindon.
<dw4tkins> MartijnVdS: of course he'd start in Swindon, makes sense ;)
<dw4tkins> John was in Edinburgh for the book festival a couple years ago
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: he seems to be in love with Amsterdam too
<davmor2> http://t.co/HNYikEmV
<dogmatic69> lol
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mi5RnzHMfs -- he talks about it a bit in his latest game :)
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: (Swindon)
<dw4tkins> Swoodilypoopers
<MartijnVdS> yes, them :)
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/oKMia
<popey> Top Gear Monopoly
<czajkowski> best timed present of chocolate ever!
<dw4tkins> popey: http://imgur.com/a/mdoPg - laser-engraved Monopoly clone
<popey> i love the box
 * czajkowski offers gingerbread men, marshmallows and fudge to all 
<MartijnVdS> ginger breadmen
<brobostigon> yummy,
<dw4tkins> haha, Windows phone asks for the installation disc... http://i.imgur.com/M8Nbl.jpg
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: *head -> desk*
<czajkowski> 5 boxes of goodness - https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/289763545426558976/photo/1
<popey> from...
<AlanBell> a french duck
<czajkowski> hmm first sweet was Marzipan
<czajkowski> ewww
<czajkowski> popey: canonical :)
<czajkowski> was involved in a project with one of the teams there
<czajkowski> so as  thank you they sent me sweets
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: Did Christel ever give you some of the pepernoten I sent to her months ago? :)
<czajkowski> ohh two bags of marshmallows
<czajkowski> my day has just gotten so much better
<popey> no
<ali1234> does anyone know how the dvb-t transmitter groups work?
<ali1234> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdHFrY19LbDNSYXpzX1hWMC1ZeWEwYkE
<ali1234> trying to make sense of this
<ali1234> compare this to what's in /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-*
<ali1234> those files are pre-switchover, so they are now all useless and i want to update them
<popey> ali1234: seriously, nobody has updated them post switch-off?
<ali1234> um, yes? seriously
<popey> blimey, I'm surprised, I thought TV types would have
<ali1234> well
<popey> upstream
<ali1234> the old files were auto generated
<ali1234> after DSO they changed the format
<ali1234> to a bunch of crufty PDFs
<daftykins> just goes to show how rubbish TV is :)
<ali1234> i had to do most of it by hand
<ali1234> to get it into a standard format spreadsheet
<ali1234> TV is pretty rubbish but i record films
<ali1234> on BBC HD
<ali1234> cos it's easier than pirating them
<ali1234> i only watch old films when they are on freeview now
<ali1234> i haven't even seen batman 2 yet
<daftykins> at least if you pirate 'em you don't have to pay the TV license :>
<davmor2> ali1234: which batman 2
<ali1234> the one where heath ledger says "why so serious?" for 2 hours
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> that line is great
<davmor2> ali1234: oh batman 6
<daftykins> when i accused one of my students of allowing a fellow student to copy his work, he got all uppity (which is blatantly a sign i was right)
<daftykins> so i said, in front of the class... WHY SO SRS!?
<daftykins> needless to say he was put in his place
<directhex> ali1234, what's your specific question?
<ali1234> directhex: what are the files in /usr/share/ supposed to correspond to? transmitters or transmitter groups? why do most of the transmitters in each group only carry PSB muxes? what should be put into an initial tuning file for a tx that carries only PSB? put the other muxes from the "main" tx? or just leave them out? and what about tx that carry all muxes but are not the "main" tx for the group? also what about tx sites that carry multiple versions of 
<ali1234> for example Border/Caldbeck appears to carry english and scottish versions of the PSB muxes
<ali1234> it looks like there's a tuning file for each tx site that carries all 6 muxes only
<daftykins> ali1234: are your manual scans still failing, or do you really need all that jazz?
<directhex> http://www.ukfree.tv/ seems to have the data you want?
<ali1234> daftykins: manual scan never worked with mythtv, ever
<ali1234> directhex: it is not in machine readable format
<directhex> well, there is that
<ali1234> i have the data
<ali1234> all questions are about how to interpret it
<daftykins> ali1234: my mate has some experience, i'm conversing with him on another chat protocol. what are all those many dongles you have?
<daftykins> ah he's coming on, sec
<ali1234> i have a dibcom 3000 (doesn't work), a rtl2831 (doesn't work), a rtl2832 (works), and another one that i forgot the chipset of. not that it matters.
<daftykins> he'll be on shortly
<daftykins> he has contacts in very relevant places >:)
<daftykins> there 'e is!
<summat> <3
<daftykins> </Sopranos>
<daftykins> ali1234: attack summat with your tale of woe
<summat> I'd prefer if it caressed, rather than attacked
<summat> personally.
<ali1234> i don't even know where to start
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> so under linux we have "initial tuning" files
<summat> yep, I ignore such things, personally
<ali1234> which describes the frequencies of the muxes for an "area"
<summat> always do a blind scan
<ali1234> blind scanning doesn't work in all cases
<ali1234> for me, what happens is it picks up transponders from multiple tx sites
<ali1234> then it uses the weaker ones for no reason
<ali1234> also, not all frontends are capable of auto detectng modulation
<ali1234> so this is why we have nitial tuning files
<ali1234> anyway, they haven't been updated post DSO
<summat> well all the info about muxes is available online
<ali1234> indeed it is
<ali1234> in a bunch of malformed PDF files
<ali1234> from ofcom
<summat> naw, much easier
<ali1234> i've turned all of that information into a spreadsheet
<ali1234> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdHFrY19LbDNSYXpzX1hWMC1ZeWEwYkE
<ali1234> but what i don't understand is how the existing tuning files relate to transmitter groups and sites
<ali1234> they don't seem to describe either
<summat> whats your nearest transmitter? in theory
<ali1234> irrelevant, my goal is to update all the initial tuning files with the latest correct information
<daftykins> are you trying to Jim'll fix-it it for the community?
<ali1234> for example, there is a file uk-Fenton
<ali1234> Fenton is part of the Sutton Coldfield transmitter group
<ali1234> which is in Central region
<ali1234> you can find it in my spreadsheet
<ali1234> there is also a uk-SuttonColdfield
<daftykins> FENTOOOOOOOOON!!!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU
<daftykins> (sorry.)
<ali1234> so basically my question is why does SuttonColdfield and Fenton get initial files, but, say, Edgbaston does not?
<summat> at a rough guess, noone's ever submitted any?
<ali1234> the obvious answer is that Fenton carries all 6 muxes but Edgbaston does not
<ali1234> it looks like all the full tx sites are covered
<ali1234> no, that's not the reason, all the old files were generated automatically from ofcom data too
<daftykins> so are they just wrong?
<davmor2> ali1234: there are a lot of repeater stations that will have a listing from another station effectively
<ali1234> repeaters don't use the same frequencies as the site they get the feed from
<daftykins> ali1234: bottom line - what are you trying to do? :D
<ali1234> daftykins: to update all the initial tuning files, and add any missing ones
<summat> with all the info you've amassed, coupled with, for instance, the ukfree.tv info for transmitters a la: http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=SK113003
<summat> which gives the modulation etc for every mux carried
<summat> you should have all the info you need
<ali1234> the muxes all use the same modulation now
<ali1234> they are all qam64 except bbc b which is qam256
<daftykins> he just got a connection drop, sec
<daftykins> apparently you've got all the necessary data / sources for said data, so that should be all you need?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> data is data
<ali1234> so with some processing i found that the existing tuning files are all the sites that carry all 6 muxes
<ali1234> it seems like an arbitrary choice but there you go
<summat> not sure how much you really need all the relays in there too
<summat> theres hundreds
<ali1234> around 1000
<summat> how many people are going to not use one of the full service transmitters though? realistically
<ali1234> 1144 in fact
<ali1234> although some are listed twice
<ali1234> i don't know, that's why i am asking
<summat> the likelyhood that you're not able to receive any of the full service sites is pretty remote imo
<ali1234> is it expected that people will receive PSB from a relay, and then get COM from the main transmitter?
<ali1234> or are people on the relays basically unable to get COM multiplexes?
<summat> or maybe they are only relaying muxes that would otherwise be unavailable?
<ali1234> that's the same as option 1
<ali1234> the relays typically carry PSB muxes - BBC A BBC B and D34
<summat> yeah, which covers all the channels anyone coming from analogue tv would ever expect, and a few extras
<ali1234> there is exactly one relay that carries only Arqiva A
<ali1234> no idea what's up with that
<ali1234> so i'll just update files that already exist then
<ali1234> which is all the full transmitters (even though some are actually relays apparently)
<summat> I think if you're going to do any relays, you'd have to do them all, and theres only a very few cases where someone would not only require to use the relay only, but also be using linux, and be wanting to tune to freeview on it
<summat> so it seems like an awful lot of files to look after for only a handful of use
<ali1234> i can generate them trivially now that i have all the data in a machine readable format
<ali1234> but it does seem like they will get little use
<directhex> i use a relay
<ali1234> plus there's like 1000 of them
<ali1234> which one?
<ali1234> do you get all 6 muxes?
<summat> I'll be its a full service relay :D
<summat> bet*
<directhex> relays only get 3 muxes
<directhex> most of them anyway
<ali1234> there aren't that many full service relays
<directhex> including mine
<directhex> but the alternative is barely any reception from oxford
<ali1234> probably less than there are transmitter groups
<ali1234> i could tell you in fact...
<ali1234> 64 transmitter groups, 19 full relays, 1144 transmitter sites in total
<ali1234> so only 19 out of over 1000 relays are full relays
<ali1234> is there a rule of thumb to convert ERP into "range"?
<summat> too depedent on terrain I'd imagine?
<ali1234> well, i have the grid references of every site, so i could take that into account too
<summat> well ukfree.tv has coverage maps
<daftykins> it's like the worlds most extensive game of Battleship
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i bet they are directional too
<summat> the big ones seem pretty even in all directions
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsQ07FfCUZI
<ali1234> wat
<daftykins> i don't get it
<ali1234> the screen has nubs
<ali1234> they actually rise from the screen
<ali1234> over each key
<summat> ah yes, that, pneumatically controlled and provide a 'lil haptic nudge so you know when you've pressed
<summat> its a predefined pattern though, not just anywhere
<daftykins> freaky
<daftykins> isn't just haptic enough for people? :)
<ali1234> well people complained when touchscreens first came out
<ali1234> i think most people got used to it though
<ali1234> i guess they've been developing that thing for a few years
<daftykins> 986064
<daftykins> oh the bot's gone
<ali1234> also i wonder what happens if you pop one of the nubs
<summat> you'd be labelled a vandal?
<summat> :)
<AlanBell> bug 986064
<lubotu3> bug 986064 in ndiswrapper (Ubuntu) "FATAL: Module ndiswrapper not found, configuration already contains alias directive 12.04" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/986064
<AlanBell> you have to let her know it is a bug and not just a number daftykins
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> indeed, this i now know
<ali1234> #986064 usually works too
<ali1234> but not here
<daftykins> =[
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/dvb-t/
<Seeker> Anyone ever tried a Dynamode USB-HDK-E with ubuntu?
<daubers> Seeker: I've used a dynamode with Ubuntu
<daubers> dunno what model it was though
<Seeker> daubers: Cool. Worth a try then
<Seeker> one of my hard drives has died, no spare sata slots
<Seeker> need a way of copying stuff on to a new drive
<AlanBell> http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2013/01/11/proud-owner-of-man-cave-really-alone-and-dying-inside/
<daftykins> AlanBell: :D
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-12
<Seeker> I wish I lived on a higher floor, so I could throw this damn computer out and watch it smash
<daftykins> what's not playing ball?
<Seeker> my TV tuners
<Seeker> both my DVB-T and DVB-S tuners have stopped tuning anything
<daftykins> Seeker: meet ali1234
<Seeker> ?
<daftykins> he has TV tuning fun too
<Seeker> when did his start?
<daftykins> new years day iirc
<Seeker> mine started some time between about 2am and 6pm today
<Seeker> well, yesterday now
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> what changed in that window?
<Seeker> no idea
<Seeker> I was out at work
<Seeker> wife didn't use TV
<Seeker> aerial is ok, TV can receive singal
<daftykins> any auto update shiz enabled?
<Seeker> nope
<daftykins> well i'm out of ideas
<daftykins> good news is, you no longer see the terrible programming of today?
<Seeker> yeah, but now my mythtv box is broken
<daftykins> =[
<Seeker> it just doesnt seem to be able to tune anything
<Seeker> and I have no idea why
<daftykins> that's the same situation ali1234 has
<daftykins> mythtv too, afaik
<Seeker> I'm trying to use the dvb tools too
<Seeker> scan, w_scan, dvbsnoop
<Seeker> all do nothing
<daftykins> how wude indeed
<Seeker> nothing in dmesg
 * MartijnVdS needs moar cpu power
<dw4tkins> I had the same trouble last year, MartijnVdS - then a friend replaced his PC so I got a cheap but very useable machine 2nd hand
<dw4tkins> ...alternatively, get a Raspberry Pi cluster.
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: I just want to compile some custom OpenWRT firmware :)
<MartijnVdS> dw4tkins: but it's taking forever :)
<MartijnVdS> even with only 5-6 packages enabled
 * dw4tkins throws a 1 GHz AMD CPU in MartijnVdS' general direction
<dw4tkins> I have 42 Lego points, woohoo!
<ali1234> Seeker: mythtv can't tune properly. you need to enter transponders manually and then do a tuned scan.
<directhex> myth always scanned fine for me
<directhex> as of 0.18 or so
<ali1234> i get two copies of half the channels and the other half don't show up at all
<ali1234> also i get different results each time
<ali1234> the problem is every frontend is different
<ali1234> they have different timeouts, different signals etc
<ali1234> they are trying to standardise it right now actually
<Seeker> ali1234, tried the command line scan utilities?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> they are hit and miss
<ali1234> scan works, but only because you tell it all the frequencies in advance
<ali1234> w_scan does not work, it does the same thing as mythtv
<ali1234> i don't think there are any others
<ali1234> there is dvbv5_scan but i haven't tried that
<MartijnVdS> w_scan works fine for me
<MartijnVdS> on DVB-T and DVB-S2
<MartijnVdS> (with DiSEqC)
<Seeker> ali1234, and it was working previously, then suddenly stopped being able to get a lock?
<ali1234> no, this is just standard
<Seeker> both of my cards were working perfectly previously
<MartijnVdS> Seeker: satellite?
<Seeker> Sometime between 2am and 6pm yesterday, both my Nova-T 500 and my TBS 6920 (DVB-T and DVB-S2 respectively) stopped getting locks
<MartijnVdS> Seeker: have you tried turning it off and back on again? ;)
<MartijnVdS> I use this: w_scan -fs -s S28E2 -E0 -O0 -o7 > Astra2.conf
<Seeker> yes
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> what's your command line?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: howdy!
<Seeker> MartijnVdS, I'll let that run, see what happens
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: howdy
<MartijnVdS> Seeker: (frontend satellite, sat 28E2 = "the one most UK dishes are pointed at because of FreeSat and Sky", E0 = only free-to-air, -O0 = Only TV/Radio, no data, -o7 = VDR 1.7 output)
<Seeker> think I used w_scan -fs -s S28E2
<MartijnVdS> the other options are optional :)
<Seeker`> Error: Sorry - i could't get any working frequency/transponder. Nothing to scan!!
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: sounds like someone stole your dish
<MartijnVdS> or misaligned it
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS, So why did my DVB-T stop tuning too, when a TV plugged in to another socket works
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: yes that's very weird, and why I asked if you'd rebooted :)
<dw4tkins> perhaps it's a hardware problem, with the socket or the cable?
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: w_scan -ft -c UK -E0 -O0 -v for DVB-T ?
<Seeker`> GB not UK :P
<MartijnVdS> the TV might need less signal to work properly (more sensitive receiver)
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: uh yeah :)
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: mine says NL :)
<Seeker`> dw4tkins: Two seperate cables
<Seeker`> The TV is rubbish. Before the switchover, it couldn't get more than aobut 3 channels, mythtv could get all of them
<MartijnVdS> I'm confused about your cables :)
<MartijnVdS> can you draw a diagram somewhere?
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS, two cables coming from a wall socket. One going to a DVB-S2 card, another going to a DVB-T card
<MartijnVdS> did you switch them?
<Seeker`> no, they have different connectors
<MartijnVdS> was there rain/snow/lightning yesterday?
<Seeker`> no
<Seeker`> well, not that I recall
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS, w_scan returns nothing for DVB-T either
<ali1234> Seeker`: when my TV kept not working at night i found out it was because someone was turning off the power supply for the masthead amplifier at night.
<Seeker`> it was dead by 6pm, didn't record simpsons
<ali1234> i need a file archival system
<ali1234> an automated one that understands directories, duplicates, timestamps, makefiles, various cvs formats, tar files...
<ali1234> a start would be a tool like file, except it works on directories
<Seeker`> I need a working tuner :')
<Seeker`> *:'(
<ali1234> > directory ~/Source/linux
<ali1234> git working directory, Linux 3.6.0, http://www.kernel.org
<ali1234> Seeker`: i suggest you consult my spreadsheet of all transmitters, find yours, then try to directly tune with dvbtune
<Seeker`> where does the speadsheet live?
<ali1234> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdHFrY19LbDNSYXpzX1hWMC1ZeWEwYkE
<ali1234> note the multiple sheets, one for each region, at the bottom
<ali1234> to convert the UHF channel numbers to MHz, multiply by 8 and add 306
<ali1234> then add 0.166 if it's + or subtract if it is -
<ali1234> then dvbtune -f <Hz>
<MartijnVdS> For satellite, there's http://en.kingofsat.net/pos-28.2E.php
<ali1234> if you're on a main transmitter then there's initial tuning files here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/dvb-t/
<ali1234> if you're on a relay you'll have to look at the sheet
<ali1234> you should see: FE_STATUS: FE_HAS_SIGNAL FE_HAS_LOCK FE_HAS_CARRIER FE_HAS_VITERBI FE_HAS_SYNC
<ali1234> FE_HAS_SYNC being the most important one
<penguin42> ali1234: There's a package with all that in
<ali1234> if dvbtune runs forever you have a problem
<ali1234> penguin42: and that package hasn't been updated for post DSO frequencies, so it is completely useless
<penguin42> ali1234: I started playing with dvbtune etc and eventually noticed kaffeine did it all itself
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: dvb-apps
<MartijnVdS> files are in /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-*
<ali1234> penguin42: i will submit the new tuning files upstream if/when people tell me they work :)
<ali1234> i can't really test them for obvious reasons :)
<ali1234> i know the lines for T2 multiplexes are wrong
<ali1234> don't know the correct format
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: just drive around the country a few times and test them :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: can't take more than a few weeks!
<ali1234> i can't drive
<MartijnVdS> Hire the stig.
<penguin42> ali1234: Most of the files in my version say they're autogenerated from ofcom/dtg sites - except mine (winter hill which says it's manual)
<ali1234> penguin42: yep all those "autogenerated from dtg" ones are generated from the pre-DSO data
<ali1234> which is still up at the exact same URL
<ali1234> and completely wrong
<penguin42> ah, that sucks
<ali1234> the new data is in a different format that can't be parsed easily (PDF)
<ali1234> however, i managed with some manual tweaks to do it
<ali1234> and now you see the results :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ask Ofcom to have a look at the Dutch system :)
<ali1234> why?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: we have a web-accessible database we can query with a simple form :)
<MartijnVdS> very Web 0.5
<ali1234> that's pretty cool
<ali1234> we have ukfree.tv or whatever it's called, but it's not machine readable
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: we also have http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/ who went through the raw data and put the interesting bits into .xls files
<ali1234> Seeker`: i guess check ukfree.tv to see if there's problems on your transmitter
<Seeker`> ali1234, I just get 'FE_GET_INFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device'
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: It's suspicious that both sat and terrestrial broke at the same time
<ali1234> Seeker`: that's not a problem in and of itself
<Seeker`> and no reported problems on my transmitters
<ali1234> i get that on some tuners but they still work
<ali1234> it is suspicious. did you update kernel?
<Seeker`> the program exits after that error
<MartijnVdS> maybe the /dev/dvb/adapter0 and adapter1 got switched around somehow?
<ali1234> ah that could mean something else is using it then
<ali1234> you need to kill mythbackend
<MartijnVdS> so everything that's expecting DVB-T on 0, gets the S adapter and the other way around
<ali1234> before doing anything else
<ali1234> that's a possibility
<Seeker`> backend is stopped
<ali1234> dvbtune will tell you the name of the device (chipset)
<ali1234> eg Using DVB card "Realtek RTL2832 (DVB-T)"
<MartijnVdS> hmm. w_scan might have been having the same problem: device already in use
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> maybe backend crashed
<MartijnVdS> but that should have been fixed by rebooting
<ali1234> i suggest plugging tuner into another computer, assuming it is USB
<Seeker`> nope, PCI / PCIe
<Seeker`> hmm, w_scan / dvbtune etc. aren't finding any cards now
<Seeker`> this is really weird
<ali1234> check dmesg?
<Seeker`> modules are loaded
<Seeker`> no errors in dmesg
<ali1234> maybe dvb core crashed
<ali1234> or maybe usb stack crashed
<ali1234> dvb tends to do that
<ali1234> what modules do your cards use?
<ali1234> wait, not usb stack if it's pci
<Seeker`> well, the Nova-T 500 is two tuners on a USB bus I think
<Seeker`> nova-t is dib7000m/ dib3000mc
<Seeker`> the satellite card is cx23885
<ali1234> dib3000 support is broken in rcent kernels
<ali1234> mine stopped working ages ago
 * MartijnVdS has dvb_usb_dtt200u and saa7146/budget_ci
<Seeker`> [    9.517130] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_dib0700
<MartijnVdS> (some no-brand DVB-T USB stick an TT-S2-3200)
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: have you tried a shutdown + remove power completely + wait a while + power everything back on?
<ali1234> that is a good suggestion
<ali1234> USB devices often stay powered and "crashed" over reboots if you don't do that
 * MartijnVdS pokes around with OpenWRT
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS, shut it down for a couple of hours. Came back up and now no program recognises either card
<Seeker`> my computer is being really weird
<Seeker`> one of my drives gives a SMART error when I boot
<MartijnVdS> Capacitor plague?
<Seeker`> If i unplug that drive, then another drive doesn't mount either
<Seeker`> just took the card out, they look fine
<MartijnVdS> sounds like your PCI bus is out of whack
<MartijnVdS> nah look on the mainboard
<MartijnVdS> and check the voltages your PSU puts out
<Seeker`> caps look fine
<Seeker`> BIOS is reporting voltages within 1.5% of expected
<penguin42> Seeker`: What exactly are your SATA errors
<dwatkins> I'd remove everything and add components one at a time to find the fault, or if it's with the motherboard, Seeker`.
<Seeker`> penguin42 BIOS says that SMART has started reporting errors with one drive
<penguin42> Seeker`: I'd use smartctl -a to show the exact smart errors in the drives log, and also get any kernel errors related to the drive; you can sometimes see if it's media or cable from them
<Seeker`> no kernel errors, its only "Raw_Read_Error_Rate"
<penguin42> ok, show the smartctl -a   data
<zleap> hello
<Seeker`> penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1523770/
<zleap> Seeker`, what are we looking for in that,
<penguin42> Seeker`: That does look like a pre-failure warning on a drive; a bad psu could do it, but if it's not the PSU I'd say that drive is due to fail soon
<Seeker`> penguin42, got a replacement waiting to be picked up at pc world
<penguin42> yeuch
<Seeker`> so, how do I fix my problem?
<penguin42> throw the drive
<penguin42> Seeker`: If your seeing problems across multiple drives I'd suspect the PSU
<Seeker`> penguin42, the main problem I have is that both of my TV tuners have suddenly stopped working
<penguin42> Seeker`: Erm weird, if those are all happening at the same time as your drive problems then I'd definitely check the PSU
<Seeker`> penguin42, like I said, all reported values are within 1.5% of expected
<penguin42> Seeker`: It might be one rail on the PSU is dead
<Seeker`> how do you suggest I test it then?
<Seeker`> eugh, not the PSU causing DVB-S problems
<Seeker`> same card doesn't work in a different PC
<penguin42> Seeker`: OK, so isolate your problems - if they're actually independent problems then you've just got a dying hard drive
<Seeker`> I believe so
<Seeker`> Think I might just go and buy a new DVB-T tuner, see if that works
<Seeker`> the socket works, I get the same thing happening on 2 different PCs
<Seeker`> only leaves the cards
<ali1234> Seeker`: when you say "the socket" shouldn't you have two sockets?
<Seeker`> one wall plate, two connector points (well, 3 actually)
<ali1234> why am i experiencing 3 second lag on all connections?
<penguin42> ali1234: It takes that long for the censors to forward it
<ali1234> nope, pretty sure it's something to do with this:
<ali1234> Jan 12 17:32:50 al-desktop kernel: [87041.952228] usb_urb_complete: 3675 callbacks suppressed
<ali1234> every second
<penguin42> oh not fun
<ali1234> actually, that's a nope
<ali1234> that's caused because i left tzap running
<penguin42> tzap?
<ali1234> it's not the cause of my lag though
<ali1234> dvb-t tuning program
<ali1234> well, modem reboot time
<Seeker`> ali1234: Bought a nano-something 290e, which seems to be able to get a lock (its a USB tuner)
<Seeker`> although that is through its own portable aerial
<ali1234> wow
<ali1234> i never got anything from a small aerial
<ali1234> i have that tuner
<ali1234> it's DVB-T2
<Seeker`> yeah
<ali1234> basically the only one
<ali1234> it does HD
<Seeker`> how did you connect it to the wall?
<ali1234> with a cable?
<ali1234> there's an adapter in the box
<Seeker`> hmm
<Seeker`> not in mine
<ali1234> for the mini connector
<ali1234> well... there should be
<inn0min4t3> Did Google stop making Picasa for Ubuntu?
<ali1234> the other type of tuner to look out for is rtl2832
<Seeker`> ah, there it is
<ali1234> it does FM via SDR and you can use it with gnuradio to receive other stuff
<Seeker`> tbh, if i can get my nova-t 500 working again, I'd prefer to keep that plugged in to the wall for  now, as it has dual tuners
<Seeker`> I may just nuke my backend and start again
<ali1234> those dibcom tuners aren't very good
<ali1234> they just stop working for no reason :(
<ali1234> mine never worked properly
<ali1234> here's a trick you can use. tune to a working transponder with dvbtune -m to show signal strength
<ali1234> you can then unplug the antenna and plug in a different one, to compare signal strength
<ali1234> you can't directly do that if there is no signal to start with
<ali1234> because dvbtune will just exit if there is no lock
<ali1234> but once it is running it will keep going even if the signal comes and goes
<rmarcandier> Alguem ai tem a Cert LPC-01 ?
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/240431/is-there-a-way-i-can-rename-trash-to-crap
<ali1234> awesome question
<rmarcandier> sorry, wrong chat :)
<ali1234> i know we had no end of problems with translating Trash to Rubbish, so can anyone answer that?
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm, could you do it by definining a new locale - en_GBvulgar ?
<shauno> http://askubuntu.com/a/85286/11684  looks promising?  (not sure if this renames the folder though, or just the icon that represents it)
<ali1234> sure. i have no idea of the details involved though
<ali1234> i'm not the question asker btw
<ali1234> i just thought it was an amusing question
<ali1234> shauno: nice one. flagged the question as duplicate :)
<ali1234> he wants to rename the icon which is what that icon does. he tried renaming the folder but this did not have the intended effect
<ali1234> *answer
<shauno> I've no idea how nautilus handles these.  on osx, they give the folder a daft name and then handle in in metadata  (eg, ~/Music.localized)
<ali1234> yep, i suspect the folder is always Trash
<ali1234> regardless of locale
<ali1234> otherwise it would explode if you changed locale
<shauno> that would seem like the sensible option for folders you wouldn't usually see browsing
<ali1234> i really want to make en_vulgar now
<ali1234> would be an ideal addition to user hostile linux
<rmarcandier> Hello guys, I have a quick question. At the moment I am working with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on my work machine. I would like to know if Backbox or BackTrack are stable to work with, or just to make tests?
<marsilainen> hi all, how well can I expect an upgrade to work from 10.04 LTS (server) to 12.04 LTS (server) ?
<marsilainen> should I expect lots of problems? or for it to work flawlessly? or something in-between?
<marsilainen> the server is a standard LAMP + postfix server mainly
<AlanBell> marsilainen: does it have stuff from the repos on it?
<marsilainen> I'm not sure what you mean?
<AlanBell> did you install stuff from source on it?
<AlanBell> or apt-get for things like postgres
<marsilainen> pretty much everything on there was installed using apt-get
<AlanBell> flawlessly then :)
<marsilainen> cool
<marsilainen> sort of a scary thing to do, so thought I should ask first...
<AlanBell> backup first etc
<AlanBell> backup config files twice :)
<marsilainen> yeah, of course
<marsilainen> I shall try it tomorrow morning then
<marsilainen> at least I have the rest of the day to sort it out if anything doesn't quite work ;)
<penguin42> well I now have an ubuntu derivative on a little mk809 ARM board; bit hacky and I need to get some networking yet; but still - progress
<ali1234> marsilainen: if the server is a VPS you will have problems
<marsilainen> ali1234: oh, it is
<marsilainen> ali1234: sorry, I should have mentioned that
<ali1234> typically you cannot choose kernel on a VPS
<marsilainen> ali1234: hmm, ok, I wasn't aware of that
<ali1234> so you will be running 12.04 on whatever kernel your VPS provider uses
<shauno> curious, which provider?
<ali1234> which may or may not work
<marsilainen> shauno: bytemark
<marsilainen> ali1234: so how should I proceed?
<AlanBell> depends on the virtualisation technology
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> and how flexible the providers are
<ali1234> you should ask bytemark how to proceed basically
<ali1234> it might be best to provision a new VPS and then transfer files
<penguin42> bytemark are pretty good; it's a kvm guest normally
<marsilainen> AlanBell: it's kvm I believe
<ali1234> then update DNS and cancel the old one once everything is done
<marsilainen> so should I talk to bytemark first?
<penguin42> marsilainen: Is it there big.io thing or one of their older ones?
<AlanBell> bytemark did have a custom kernel at one point, they did a tweak to jiggle the cron jobs so everything didn't go off at once, but that was back when they were using xen
<penguin42> marsilainen: Ask on their forums, or I think there is also a #bytemark on here
<marsilainen> right ok, I'll look into it
<shauno> yeah, that's why I was asking.  I know bitfolk have a nice strategy to give you provision a vps and cancel the old one a week later (and don't charge you any extra for the overlap, which is nice)
<ali1234> handy
<penguin42> they're generally pretty friendly  - not sure whether the bytemark setup allows you to next kvm
<AlanBell> bytemark are good, was pleased with them when we were a customer
<penguin42> next? I mean *nest* kvm
<AlanBell> we use KVM for our servers and run standard kernels on them, the kernel is running in the VM it doesn't know it isn't on hardware
<ali1234> i've only used openVZ VPS
<ali1234> it really hurts
<marsilainen> ok, I'll definitely check with them (asking in #bytemark now) before going ahead with anything - thanks for raising the issue
<ali1234> moved everything to a hetzner dedi rather than deal with that badness
<penguin42> ali1234: kvm is a bit nicer than VPS; it's a full virtualised machine with it's own kernel - much saner
<penguin42> and the bytemark stuff lets you get to the console and reboot it all remotely - can't remember if they let you do arbitrary kernel choice or not)
<penguin42> sigh, this would be SO much easier if I had a working USB hub
<marsilainen> ok, so it sounds like I just need to make sure that after the upgrade I connect to the console and ensure that the right kernel is selected
<marsilainen> so that's easy enough
<marsilainen> really want to do this as the version of PHP in 10.04 is a bit old now and some newer stuff doesn't support it
<Zeotrope> hello
<Zeotrope> can
<Zeotrope> can anyone help me please ?
<AlanBell> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Zeotrope> I have installed Zorin 6.1 on a laptop HP pavilion dv5000 and
<Zeotrope> sorry i am new
<AlanBell> what is zorin 6.1?
<Zeotrope> am getting a wireless is disabled  by hardware swich
<AlanBell> oh, right that isn't ubuntu. Maybe find the zorin os support channel.
<DJones> AlanBell: Its a derivative
<AlanBell> ask in #ZorinOS
<Zeotrope> i have tried typing sudo rfkill unblock all
<Zeotrope> it says command not known
<Zeotrope> i will try that other channel thank you
<zleap> can someone help me with vnc please
<marsilainen> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<ali1234> zorin os? like the bond villain?
<marsilainen> if I had one critisism of Ubuntu it would be the tendency for all the UI to be seeming to be trying to get as close to MacOSX as possible - is that some sort of stated goal within Canonical?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> they will never admit to it
<marsilainen> sure, externally - but what about internally?
<ali1234> i dunno
<AlanBell> they have said they are competing with mac os X rather than Windows
<ali1234> i would find that quote where shuttleworth basically said power users don't matter to ubuntu because all power users are moving to OS X anyway
<ali1234> but i can't be bothered any more
<ali1234> also all the UI designers use OS X
<marsilainen> I think that MacOSX has a much nicer UI than Windows so I'd rather they go towards that than something else, but find it a little strange that it's losing some individuality along the way
<ali1234> i don't
<marsilainen> fair enough
<ali1234> i think OS X is much worse than windows 7
<ali1234> obviously it is better than windows 8
<ali1234> and the ribbon is just horrible
<ali1234> but in terms of the task bar windows 7 gets it right
<ali1234> but i've explained this too many times
<marsilainen> hehe
<ali1234> basically there are two philosophies of task bar. one says the task bar switches between windows, the other says it switches between applications
<ali1234> windows 7 is the former. unity and OS X are the latter
<ali1234> the problem is that a window is a clearly defined thing, but an "application" is not
<ali1234> so that type of task bar (usually called a dock) is doomed to fail no matter how much you polish it
<marsilainen> well I don't use unity - I use gnome shell - and I don't use the 'dock' much TBH - I tend to have lots of workspaces with only one or two apps on each
<ali1234> also global menu is an abomination
<marsilainen> so I tend to spend my time switching workspaces rather than switching windows
<marsilainen> which I find to be a more productive way of working, for me
<ali1234> hah
<marsilainen> if I want to start a new app, I start a new workspace
<ali1234> so basically you learned to avoid the crappy window management and found a workaround
<marsilainen> maybe so
<marsilainen> works for me
<ali1234> putting each window on a new workspace is just a proxy for having a proper taskbar
<ali1234> unfortunately you can't do that in unity, because you only get 4 workspaces and adding more is difficult
<marsilainen> when you have an app with multiple windows - like the gimp for example - it feels much cleaner to me to have it on a separate workspace
<ali1234> that's true
<ali1234> but i advocate single window mode for gimp
<marsilainen> yes, that's right - that's one of the major benefits of gnome shell over unity IMHO
<ali1234> or i would if it wasn't implemented in the worst way possible
<ali1234> i mean, you;d expect it to use MDI right? nope. in single window mode, you can only view one image at a time. it uses tabs.
<marsilainen> I do have multiple apps on some workspaces - like this one is my communication one with IRC, email, skype etc
<ali1234> they don't look like tabs but they work exactly like tabs
<marsilainen> but only a few windows so easy to switch between the apps
<marsilainen> I've never tried gimp in that mode
<marsilainen> but yeah, doesn't sound great
<ali1234> i do basically the same thing but for some use cases i just need to switch constantly between 4 fullscreen windows without having to look at the 400 other windows i have open
<marsilainen> but with it on a separate workspace I don't have to worry about that :p
<ali1234> the 4 windows being shell, app under development, text editor, browser
<marsilainen> everyone has their own use cases and therefore their own way of working
<marsilainen> I'm not advocating mine for everyone
<marsilainen> but it works well for me
<ali1234> i don't advocate. i just point out flaws in everyone else's stuff :)
<marsilainen> haha
<ali1234> at the end of the day all computers suck
<marsilainen> one thing I would say for gnome shell over unity is that everyone at my place of work who has tried gnome shell for a week has decided to stick with it rather than going back to unity
<ali1234> i think apple kind of gets it
<marsilainen> which probably says something at least
<ali1234> sure their stuff is locked down and limited
<ali1234> i think we have to start over with computers for consumers
<marsilainen> probably quite true
<marsilainen> anyway, I'm off to watch the football :)
<ali1234> does anyone have any requests for ubuntu phone apps?
<zleap> denver vs baltimore
<ali1234> if you had 5 minutes to play with an ubuntu phone what would you try?
<ali1234> i would time how long it took to sudo apt-get update
<AlanBell> ali1234: that would be what I would try last, just before handing it back
<AlanBell> I would try rotating it
<ali1234> haha yeah i would try that :)
<AlanBell> and I would try running an application on it when connected to a monitor over HDMI then disconnecting the monitor
<brobostigon> miracast ?
<ali1234> i hope the people who made it had some hands on time with an N900
<ali1234> because there a lot to be learned... mostly what NOT to do
<ali1234> i think unity could be great on a phone
<ali1234> it's not a million miles away from hildon
<ali1234> and that worked very well on the N900
<ali1234> it works because on a phone everything is full screen
<ali1234> thus app == window, always
<ali1234> you could run desktop software on the N900 but it was really horrible, mainly because of window management
<AlanBell> almost always, the Galaxy S3 has split screen for two apps now
<ali1234> well that's just a silly gimmick
<AlanBell> to an extent
<ali1234> even so, android apps are always one window
<AlanBell> you can also have a video playing in a window over other apps
<ali1234> i barely ever even switch windows in android... it's more like a stack
<AlanBell> there are some things about this phone that really need to be designed in early and I am not sure they are going to be
<ali1234> such as?
<AlanBell> rotation and accessibility would be my two things that are conspicuously absent
<ali1234> rotation is meh
<AlanBell> rotation might resize the app window and transform it's coordinate space
<ali1234> most stuff didn't rotate on N900
<ali1234> and i have my nexus 7 rotation locked
<AlanBell> or it might not, you could have landscape and portrait windows in the stack, apps could refuse to rotate or accept a rotate
<ali1234> you don't really need that designed in from the start
<ali1234> i mean QML handles it anyway, just connect it up to the sensor and you are done
<AlanBell> how does QML handle it?
<ali1234> it handles it in the sense that everything is resizable
<ali1234> you can make your QML app be all fixed pixel sizes if you want but that is missing the point
<ali1234> anchors.fill = parent
<AlanBell> http://micronokiadev.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/controling-rotation-in-qml-looked-hard-but-was-easy/ like that maybe
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> QML is a lot like banging out HTML DOM with javascript
<ali1234> in the beginning it was quite bad for that... a lot of problems just like we had with HTML 10 years ago
<ali1234> where everything would explode when you resize one element
<ali1234> but we're on 2.0 now... it got better
<AlanBell> cool
<ali1234> QML is designed for phone apps basically
<ali1234> selecting QML for app development was the best idea ever
<AlanBell> yes, it does seem quite good
<ali1234> oh and it's not called QML any more
<ali1234> it's called Qt Quick 2.0
<AlanBell> Qt Quick
<ali1234> but whatever, it's always QML to me
<ali1234> you might want to check out the nokia N900 sdk
<ali1234> it has a phone simulator
<ali1234> you can click "rotate" and it rotates
<ali1234> not sure if you can use Qt 5 though
<AlanBell> not sure I want to develop any apps really, I am probably more interested in the HTML5 stuff for it
<ali1234> HTML5 is a dead end
<AlanBell> heh
<ali1234> it's just too hard to make anything good with HTML
<ali1234> even if you use jquery it's still a nightmare
<ali1234> just try to make a kinetic scrolling list in HTML5
<ali1234> then notice it's 4 lines of code in QML
<ali1234> did you look at my newest jono-qml?
<ali1234> i added kinetic scrolling... just because
<ali1234> also, http://necessitas.kde.org/
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> I figured there would be a QML for android somewhere
<ali1234> still beta. i'm installing it now
<ali1234> also it's Qt 4.8
<ali1234> well that was easy
<ali1234> tomorrow i'll make something cool with this i guess
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-13
<popey> pip pip
<jacobw> toodle do
<AlanBell> hi popey
<Seeker`> ali1234, seems that a 290e scans/tunes correctly. Still no idea why my other two cards are dead though
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<SuperEngineer> morninks brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperEngineer
<Myrtti> morning
<Myrtti> swype is usable again, wheee
<brobostigon> morning Myrtti
<SuperEngineer> Myrtti: why was it not? [interested as I've recently installed it]
<Myrtti> didn't have tab or arrow keys for a while
<SuperEngineer> ...assuming that was Skype??
<Myrtti> made irssi usage difficult on mobile
<Myrtti> no
<SuperEngineer> my bad
<Myrtti> Swype
<SuperEngineer> ok
<SuperEngineer_> ok - who nicked my internet... and why am I now showing as both me & me_ [come on xchat - get it right!]
<SuperEngineer_> time to log off & back on... 'scuse me a mo
<cjo> argh, I think my mythtv backend is screwed :(
<cjo> Got a disk to replace the failing one I can do sometihng about, spent hours copying stuff over. Updated the machine and rebooted and now I'm getting a bad superblock error
<cjo> on the new drive. As well as a pre-existing bad superblock on another drive
<jacobw> hey
<brobostigon> hey jacobw
<jacobw> hey brobostigon, how's it going?
<brobostigon> jacobw: not bad, and you?
<jacobw> brobostigon: pretty good, working through some project euler today
<brobostigon> jacobw: :)
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - Big Bang Theory or catch up on work emails... hmmm -such a quandary ;)
<brobostigon> big bang, everytime, :)
<SuperEngineer> brobostigon: +1
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> Just been catching up on work emails - one demanding a "new mythology" re a certain customer. I have promised to comply ;)
<SuperEngineer> [things I do whilst watching BigBang!]
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> are you going to develop a new backstory involving elves?
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: that *is* a good idea! - then watch boss's brain melt
<SuperEngineer> ...could even tell him I was inspired miMecraft [deliberate mis-spell]
<SuperEngineer> *inspired by
<SuperEngineer> connxn slowing to a halt.. me sign off now
<popey> Pip pip!
<penguin42> Hey Popey
<DJShira> hello
<DJShira> im new in Linux etc and have a little problem with my firefox flash
<popey> DJShira: hello
<DJShira> firefox dont find the flash plugin, i have tryd it now with google chrome and here it works very fine
<DJShira> hello popey
<brobostigon> chrome has flash already there built into itself. which is seperate from the normal installed flash.
<popey> DJShira: sudo apt-get install flashplugin-installer
<DJShira> no, i must install it manual in chrome
<popey> DJShira: chrome or chromium?
<DJShira> popey i have tryd it
<popey> what happens when you run that command?
<DJShira> also manual in firefox
<DJShira> *chrome
<DJShira> its allready installed
<popey> brobostigon is right, chrome has flash already built in
<popey> what isn't working then?
<popey> http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/
<popey> does that page tell you what version of flash you have installed?
<DJShira> firefox dont fin it
<SuperEngineer> DJones: have you retarted since installing it?
<DJShira> 11.2
<popey> SuperEngineer: not necessary
<DJShira> ah wrong
<DJShira> i have
<DJShira> 11,5,31,137 installed
<popey> unless you mean "restarted browser" âº
<popey> ok, good, so you have flash
<SuperEngineer> popey... thought it still was... - i'll shut up ;)
<popey> hah
<DJShira> but in firefox dont work
<popey> DJShira: so what exactly isn't working
<popey> "don't work" isn't sufficient information
<DJShira> firefox cant find flash
<popey> what are you doing and what doesn't work?
<popey> e.g. what website
<DJShira> firefox say i have no flash installed
<penguin42> when?
<popey> if you visit http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/ in firefox, does it give a version number?
<DJShira> nope
<popey> what version of ubuntu are you using? and are you using it on a normal pc, not an arm based tablet?
<DJShira> i have also tryd to search about my problem via google but nobody have that problem. the flash lib is in the firefox folder etc
<DJShira> i have it on my new acer pc
<DJShira> i dont know what ubuntu version it exactly is, its based on ubuntu
<popey> "based on ubuntu"?
<popey> so is it mint?
<penguin42> DJShira: Start again, what exactly have you got installed on this PC?
<DJShira> you know how i mean, its ubuntu but with many many tools
<penguin42> DJShira: No, we don't know - what exactly
<DJShira> backttrack
<popey> no, I dont know how you mean
<popey> right, thats not ubuntu
<popey> you want #backtrack
<DJShira> it is ubuntu^
<popey> no. it is not
<popey> it is _based_ on ubuntu. It is not Ubuntu
<penguin42> DJShira: You need to be honest if you are going to get any help; please telll us exactly what you have done if you want any
<penguin42> DJShira: How exactly did you install flash?
<DJShira> havt i also know is, under system - pref, when i click on adobe flash player i get a error message (permission denided)
<DJShira> i have install the flashplayer-instzaller via synaptic
<DJShira> that has not work
<DJShira> then i have erease it and install it manual
<DJShira> also dont work
<DJShira> then i have install google chrome
<DJShira> create a plugins folder
<DJShira> copyd the flash plugin in the plugin folder
<DJShira> have change the menu command from google chtome to enable plugins
<DJShira> start chrome
<DJShira> flash work
<penguin42> DJShira: I'd go back to installing it via the package and see what's going wrong there
<DJShira> install work
<DJShira> no probs
<DJShira> but firefox cant detect it
<brobostigon> does it show in about:plugins in FF ?
<DJShira> no
<SuperEngineer> DJShira: "Installer for the Adobe Flash plug-in for Mozilla"
<popey> i believe there is some information missing here. like it's firefox under wine or something equally odd.
<DJShira> but it is in the mozilla/plugins folder
<penguin42> popey: Not necessarily, I've seen firefox misbehave like this, but I'm not prepared to debug except via the pacakge
<DJShira> nope its not under wine
<popey> well, if there's been sufficient dicking about with the system it's hard to know what state its in
<penguin42> DJShira: You could try deleting the pluginreg.dat files that are a few levels down in |/.mozilla/firefox   it sometime gets confused about that
<DJShira> ok i try
<popey> or it's firefox from a tarball or something
<popey> people who use backtrack do _odd_ things
<popey> IMHO
<penguin42> haha
<popey> odd as in "using backtrack" being the first one
<DJShira> i have also delete the installed firefox and download and install the new from the mozilla homepage
<popey> there we go
<popey> told you
<SuperEngineer> boooom!
<penguin42> DJShira: OK, forget it - I'm not helping; you could have told us that 20 minutes ago
<DJShira> ok now im confused
<penguin42> DJShira: Try somewhere else, not here
<DJShira> firefox have delete the plugin self from the folder? OO
<DJShira> hu whats now wrong? OO sry when my english is not the best
<popey> DJShira: i would recommend removing your firefox/mozilla folders in your home directory (or create a new user, so start blank), install firefox from the repository, and flash from the repository "sudo apt-get install --reinstall firefox flashplugin-installer" and then test that install
<popey> and focus just on getting that thing fixed, and not muck about with other browsers / download tarballs
<popey> also, I would recommend either using Ubuntu or Debian. Backtrack seem to have zero support, and just send their users to ubuntu irc channels which is not the right thing to do
<DJShira> ok ty i will try
<ali1234> backtrack is for pen testing
<ali1234> if you need end user support you shouldn't be using it in the first place
<popey> well, indeed
<ali1234> i think people confuse "security distro" with "secure distro"
<DJShira_> sry crashed
<ali1234> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#I.27m_new_to_linux.2C_is_BackTrack_a_good_place_to_start_.3F
<DJShira_> yes ok but i thing the basic things like flash etc must work same as in other distr.
<penguin42> DJShira_: The way they are installed and managed aren't
<ali1234> it's based on ubuntu 10.04
<ali1234> so it's basically 3 years out of date now
<popey> hah, oh dear
<penguin42> although still in support
<popey> define support
<popey> (from backtrack)
<penguin42> popey: 10.04 is still in support
<popey> its not 10.04 tho
<ali1234> 3 year support on desktop
<popey> you know this though âº
<ali1234> so that expires in like 2 months
<penguin42> and hence it hasn't yet
<popey> thats come around fast
<ali1234> support doesn't cover the whole distro anyway
<ali1234> it covers packages
<popey> it covers ff and flash tho
<ali1234> you can tell, because different packages are supported for different timeframes
<ali1234> therefore this must be true
<popey> you can tell by looking at the package
<ali1234> also, define support?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache show firefox | grep Supported
<popey> Supported: 5y
<ali1234> when you say "ubuntu is supported for x years" it doesn't mean "we will tell you how to install it"
 * penguin42 wonders if popey also has earth
<ali1234> it means "we will backport security fixes to these packages"
<penguin42> ali1234: No, but it will mean that I'd help someone with it
<ali1234> thus if backtrack uses the same repos like mint does, then the backtrack packages are covered by this support, whether the developers like it or not
 * penguin42 only got rid of his work laptops 10.04 a couple of months ago
<ali1234> well i will help people using 8.04 if they have a good reason to do so
<ali1234> i'm not bound by any support contract, the 3y/5y thing is irrelevant to me
<ali1234> point being, "supported" is another one of those weasel words
<popey> not if you define it
<ali1234> to the customer it means "tell me how it works" to developers it means "maintained"
<ali1234> yeah but nobody ever does
<DJShira_> ah totaly forgotten to post the reinstall errors
<ali1234> "stable" is another one
<DJShira_> 2013-01-13 18:40:13 ERROR 404: Not Found.  download failed The Flash plugin is NOT installed.
<ali1234> to consumer it means "does not crash" - to developers it means "i'm never changing the code again"
<popey> there we go DJShira_
<popey> so the flashplugin-installer package is getting the "wrong" flash tarball
<popey> someone should try and reproduce that on a real 10.04 system
<popey> if it's indeed broken then we need to fix it
<ali1234> well it's probably an ancient flashplugin-installer trying to download an ancient flashplugin that adobe no longer ships
<popey> yes
<popey> but we can fix it
<popey> i will happily test in a vm later on, but for now I'm off to San Francisco to walk about and drink beer
<ali1234> no need to actually try this on a real system, just loook at the packages
<popey> ttfn
<penguin42> popey: Nice
<popey> true, file a bug ali1234 if you feel inclined and I'll poke people
<ali1234> it's probably backtrack not importing the newest package
<popey> i thought they use the same repo/archive
<popey> like mint
<popey> anyway, ttfn
<ali1234> i dunno if they do or not
<penguin42> sounds like bug 1064743
<lubotu3> bug 1064743 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "flash plugin 11.2.202.243ubuntu0.10.04.1 tar.gz file missing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064743
<ali1234> i don't even know if mint does these days
<penguin42> my oneiric mint seems to have a mix
<ali1234> backtrack looks like an overlay repository
<ali1234> !info flashplugin-installer
<lubotu3> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 11.2.202.261ubuntu0.12.10.1 (quantal), package size 7 kB, installed size 136 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<ali1234> it's multiverse
<ali1234> which means it isn't supported *at all*
<ali1234> especially not by canonical
<ali1234> so the "5 year support" does not apply. at all.
<ali1234> !info adobe-flashplugin
<lubotu3> Package adobe-flashplugin does not exist in quantal
<ali1234> !info flashplugin-installer lucid
<lubotu3> flashplugin-installer (source: flashplugin-nonfree): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 11.2.202.261ubuntu0.10.04.1 (lucid), package size 20 kB, installed size 116 kB (Only available for i386; amd64)
<ali1234> same version
<DJShira_> nice :/
<ali1234> but notice it's in security/updates: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+package/flashplugin-installer
<ali1234> so i'm 99.99% sure this problem is caused by backtrack being a kang
<DJShira_> i have now setup it again (newer version) and why he say and older version is available?
<DJShira_> the flash problem is only in firefox
<DJShira_> not in chrome
<ali1234> i dunno. going for dinner
<SuperEngineer> DJShira_: why not just use Chrome then - solves your problem!
<brobostigon> as i have said previously, chrome has flash already built into it,
<ali1234> you should read the backtrack faq especially this part http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ#I.27m_new_to_linux.2C_is_BackTrack_a_good_place_to_start_.3F
<DJShira_> i have read it
<DJShira_> but the flash works,  only not in firefox. I have install the firefox from the mozilla page, intsall the flash from launchpad and yay firefox dont like it
<DJShira_> but i have found a interessting thing in the ubuntu folders, called FLASHBLOCK
<DJShira_> flashblock desc - Firefox extension that replaces flash plugin by a button
<DJShira_> ok i thing i have found how i canmake it work, oh yes the backtrack site have a how to make flash work. great :D
<SuperEngineer> What? - you mean backtrack has this answeredon the backtrack site?.... odd that... hmmm
<DJShira_> yes, after long sdearch i have found it
<DJShira_> http://www.backtrack-linux.org/wiki/index.php/Install_Flash_Player
<DJShira_> yay haha dont work OO
<SuperEngineer> coooo;
<czajkowski> c
<SuperEngineer> ignoe previous - meant for Skype
<SuperEngineer> darn -my spelling was bad there... perhaps I should start installing flash ;)
<SuperEngineer> Anyone here using Skype app on Ubuntu? My q/ is: how to increase font size in chats window?
<SuperEngineer> [tried different "styles" in it's settings to no avail]
<directhex> moo.
<Azelphur> does anyone get a bug with gedit where the cursor disappears when you minimise it? drives me nuts :(
<ali1234> how can you tell that the cursor disappears when you minimize it?
<Azelphur> ali1234: I mean, when you bring it up again, the text cursor is gone
<Azelphur> so you have no idea where your typing
<ali1234> what?
<ali1234> gone?
<Azelphur> yup
<ali1234> hell no i never saw anything like that
<ali1234> and i use gedit all day every day
<Azelphur> Step 1) Minimise gedit, Step 2) bring gedit back, Step 3) You now don't have a text cursor, enjoy frustration
<ali1234> that sounds like a compiz bug tbh
<ali1234> sounds like the firefox focus issue
<ali1234> where you unminimize firefox and you can't type into anything like URL bar, search bar
<Azelphur> Maybe, I get a similar issue with nautilus too
<ali1234> you can click in them but there i just no cursor. the windw looks selected too
 * Azelphur tries the firefox thing
<Azelphur> nah doesn't happen with firefox, just gedit and nautilus.
<ali1234> to repro it in firefox i think you have to minimize it, then click a URL in some other app and cause it to unminimize
<ali1234> this bug has been fixed and regressed about 5 times in the past 2 years
<Azelphur> nope still can't replicate (I used terminal to simulate clicking a link since ff isn't my default browser)
<Azelphur> maybe soreau would know since he knows all the compiz things
<ali1234> does typing work?
<Azelphur> yea typing works
<Azelphur> and clicking to set position works
<ali1234> it's something different then
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> what if you press insert
<ali1234> or change colour scheme
<Azelphur> ali1234: cursor still invisible, although it still replaces characters as it should
<soreau> Azelphur: Sounds possible that it's a keyboard focus issue. You can try another wm to see if it's compiz
<Azelphur> ali1234: colour scheme doesn't fix it
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<inn0min4t3_> Good evening
<ali1234> i just accidentally mistyped slashdot and ended up on some gambling site with this terrible bit of photoshopping http://imagebin.org/242781
<mgdm> coudln't it be the other woman's arm?
<ali1234> i suppose it could be but i think my version is more amusing
<mgdm> true :)
<bigcalm> Amusing :)
<skinofstars> hi all
<bigcalm> mgdm: happy b'day btw :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> Hi there.. I'm just checking wasn't the 'test' machine for The Ubuntu -TV distro supposed to be the 'Acer Revo RL70' or am I mistaken in that ???
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey,ping
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, ping
<solarcloud_3scrn> Come on, Nerds ... help me out here, pretty please ??
<daftykins> solarcloud_3scrn: do you think that's funny?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Got it .. "what's the target hardware
<solarcloud_3scrn>    ... we used an Acer Revo during development," https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTV/Contributing .. looks ike they just used that for dev.  .. shame as I had a REVO offer for Â£130 +P&P (usu. Â£350)  .. oh well. And no , don't take offence.
<daftykins> i'm not, i think less of you for typing it though
<daftykins> if it's an old Ion 1 Revo, forget it
<daftykins> they're old school
<solarcloud_3scrn> thought it was this one ...
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acer-Revo-RL70-320GB-4GB-AMD-Nettop-PC-Windows-7-/271138221296?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D4856002109217952313%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D271137531596%26
<daftykins> oh an AMD E-450
<daftykins> even worse :>
<solarcloud_3scrn> why do I always feel like mypetals have torn off everytime I visit this #channel and ask a general question ??Why is that daftykins , WHY ??
<daftykins> i'm not sure, are you really a flower? :D
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'm a buttercup :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> today, anyway.
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> truthfully i don't know how that AMD benches against intel atoms
<daftykins> but my feeling would be that it's a glorified calculator
<solarcloud_3scrn> I had my b.day party, today .. althou my b.day was over a week ago... :)
<daftykins> O_O how odd
<solarcloud_3scrn> all the restaurants were shut .. so we leave it a week every year ...
<cjo> coming from someone that describes themsevles as a flower, relatively not that odd
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'd love to see Ubuntu TV on the game stick :: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/872297630/gamestick-the-most-portable-tv-games-console-ever/
<solarcloud_3scrn> although I think that slightly disrupts the Shuttle's vision :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-06
<ali1234> 811.0 MB Rate: 315.8 /   0.0 KB Uploaded: 20279.7 MB                 [   R: 25.00]
<MooDoo> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<dwatkins> morning
 * DJones contemplates opening his work email client after most of the last 2 weeks off....or waiting another 24 hours and just getting on with useful work
<MooDoo> DJones: if you open it, you'll loose today :D
<ali1234> does anyone know how to use the OSM API?
<DJones> MooDoo: Yeah, that was my thought as well
<AlanBell> ali1234: bits of it
<ali1234> i need a bit of code that will take lat/lon and return the 10 nearest streets to that point
<directhex> huh... so I seem to have hit the magic 301+ views on Youtube, for my SteamOS installation walkthrough video
<MooDoo> directhex: awesome
<ali1234> directhex: my ratio is at 31 now
<directhex> ali1234, awesome
<MooDoo> I think it says 301+ when it's not actually sure yet how many views it's actually done, it should update it soon :D
<ali1234> what happens is that before 300 views, they don't bother to check for unique views, spam views etc
<dwatkins> wow, I'm talking to someone who is running Windows XP and uses MS Outlook Express, it's like I just stepped through a time portal.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I know loads of people that are doing that :D
<dwatkins> MooDoo: wow, ok - I still have it on a couple machines, but only as a dual boot option I rarely use
<dwatkins> and then mostly for games
<AlanBell> ali1234: I think you have to search for the tag highway=residential, most of the stuff I have been doing is postcode searches
<ali1234> AlanBell: postcode searches is exactly what i need
<ali1234> specifically i need street address from post code
<ali1234> i have the PostZon dataset but that only gives you lat/lon
<ali1234> i need this in order to verify address data, so just checking that the post code location is nearby a street with the given name is good enough
<AlanBell> ah ok, so that is interesting to me too :) I have the PAF postcode locations and converted them from northings and eastings to lat/lng which is enough for me to put markers on the map
<AlanBell> but address validation would be cool
<AlanBell> it would need an xapi search http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Xapi
<SuperMatt> morning dudes
<popey> directhex: rate limited my torrent client overnight and it still hit  [   R: 27.88]
<popey> (morning btw)
<ali1234> AlanBell: exactly. PostZon is the same thing you have
<ali1234> PAF is actually the full dataset that costs money
<ali1234> been researching all this for the past couple of hours :)
<ali1234> i calculated that if you have a class B network you can look up every post code on royal mail's website, 50 per day per IP, and steal the whole database in just one month :)
<AlanBell> you can download the abbreviated PAF with the centrepoint of each postcode
<AlanBell> which is probably postzon
<ali1234> yeah that's what i have
<AlanBell> ali1234: https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html code point open
<ali1234> yeah
<bashrc> you shouldn't need to steal the database.  That sort of information should be public to begin with.
<ali1234> yeah there was yet another consultation about opening it up just a couple of months ago
<ali1234> it only costs Â£300 anyway so i'm surprised it's not on pirate bay already
<ali1234> apparently it's 6GB
<bashrc> there was a leaked version on Wikileaks some years ago
<ali1234> no, that was the PostZon data, it was leaked in 2009 and in 2010 they released it for free properly
<bashrc> 6GB is nothing by modern standards
<bashrc> ah
<AlanBell> the full paf is the polygon of each postcode and details of each door with a letterbox in it (each posting location)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if i had that it would make what i am trying to do so much easier
<bashrc> oh.  I didn't know it was that detailed
<ali1234> you know when you go to a website and put in your address and it just asks for post code and street number? means they pay royal mail something like 10p for every look up
<ali1234> or just buy the whole database
<ali1234> http://www.poweredbypaf.com/end-user/products/data-products/paf-raw-data/ tells all about it
<bashrc> considering that royal mail used taxpayers money to create that database, charging extra for it seems like a scam
<ali1234> they can't make more than 10% profit from it y law
<ali1234> the database does have to be maintained
<ali1234> Â£300 for the whole thing isn't really that bad if you have a business need for it
<knightwise> hey everyone
<AlanBell> they could do it for free and put up the price of a stamp to compensate, but then lots of people would scream about that, the people screaming about PAF costs are not significant numbers of voters
<AlanBell> but yeah, I would like it to be open data
<SuperMatt> well, now that royal mail is public, chances are the price will go up from Â£300
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't be surprised if there's a 10 fold increase
<ali1234> if you think the PAF is expensive, look at how much it costs to buy the electoral register
<ali1234> disappointingly that's not on pirate bay either
<Guest84209> Good morning all! :)
<JamesTait> And again, good morning all!
<popey> JamesTait: happy Pathet Lao Day
<JamesTait> popey, thank you! :)
<JamesTait> I need a new gimmick
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> ali1234: I'm not sure I'd trust the data if I got it off TPB.
<directhex> http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/seiki-u-vision-hdmi-cable/ - 4K upscaling hdmi... cable
<popey> I don't "get" upscaling
<popey> surely it's the same source, no additional data magically appears to fill in the extra lines/columns?
<bigcalm> Neither do I
<SuperMatt> it's simple, it's a buzzword to get people to buy stuff they don't need at an inflated price
<czajkowski> ALOHA :) How are we all doing?
<SuperMatt> very well thank you
<directhex> popey, indeed
<SuperMatt> apart from the fact that I'm *still* mega snotty
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: excellent
<directhex> popey, typically sharpening & denoising algorithms applied after resolution change
<SuperMatt> yourself?
<directhex> popey, plus using a fancy scaling algorithm too
<SuperMatt> but a cable doesn't need to do that when the tv can
<foobarry> i keep everything on SD and it all looks good
<foobarry> so long as the telly is a good SD one
<directhex> foobarry, the difference with cel animation between an SD source and HD source is night & day
<foobarry> only if you compare
<directhex> SuperMatt, the company making that cable doesn't have good scaling in their TVs
<foobarry> when we didn't have HD , people were generally happy
<foobarry> when people got HD telly, they thought SD sources looked awful
<foobarry> finished my hurricane: http://i.imgur.com/cpsob1y.jpg
<foobarry> on a "moonlit snowy airfield" because i haven't painted my airfield dio yet
<popey> yes, we should all go back to 11" black and white mono tellys
<directhex> with wired "remotes"
<foobarry> but we all knew the wired remotes and bw were annoying. unless i am willing to purchase HD sources (freeview tuner, pvr, blueray, games console), at the same time i should stay with my sd telly
<popey> heh, my wife tells the story of the one time her dad got mad. he wanted to watch World of Sport, she wanted to watch Dukes of Hazard. He had the (wired) remote, she was sat in front of the telly.
<popey> They fought for control, then he threw her upstairs, fixing the issue.
<foobarry> i only ever saw a wired remote on a hitachi vhs
<czajkowski> SuperMatt: not bad now first day back in nearly 2.5 weeks
<directhex> games which are essentially unplayable in SD (font size issues) started happening in 2006
<foobarry> i have a wii
<directhex> i have a wii u. wind waker hd looks amaaaaaaazing in 1080p
<foobarry> but i appreciate there must be a problem with new consoles
<popey> i did enjoy that wii u hacking thing at ccc
<foobarry> and you don't get to enjoy the good grx
<directhex> http://www.1up.com/news/capcom-responds-dead-rising-sdtv
<ali1234> that's quite funny
<ali1234> i was watching some show on BBC HD the other day and the credits were really small. it was simulcast on BBC SD. i dunno if they make different versions of the shows, or just leave it unreadable
<directhex> i can't get cbeebies hd :(
<diplo> Morning all
<ali1234> i can't get all the new channels
<ali1234> i think i get cbeebies but not bbc 4
<foobarry> the biggest barrier to me getting an hd telly is getting rid of the old one...its flippin heavy
<popey> freecycle
<Myrtti> get-iplayer â¥
<foobarry> do people still want big crts? most poor people seem to have the biggest screens :D
<Myrtti> I honestly don't get the point of massive tv's
<popey> define "massive"
<diplo> foobarry: Local recycling places take them
<Myrtti> about ... ye big ... shows with arms
<diplo> Just dumped my sisters down the local council recycling place
<directhex> there's some niche appeal to specific models of CRT, but other than those, no resale value
<foobarry> diplo: yeah, have to get it to the car first...same problem withthe old boiler in my back garden
<Myrtti> popey: I mean, we've got a rectangle shaped lounge and pretty much the only way tv and sofas can be is right opposite each other on the long walls - distance between is about 2m if even that
<Myrtti> how big a tv do you need for that?
 * popey shrugs
<foobarry> interesting that my local freecycle , the wanteds outnumber offers by 7 to 1
<popey> ours is 42"
<popey> but the next one I get will likely be 32"
<directhex> http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/456719-best-crt-retro-games/
<directhex> Myrtti, ALL THE INCHES
<Myrtti> ridonkulous
<directhex> Myrtti, IMAX experience at home!
<Myrtti> although do agree that we do need a bigger tv for the bedroom than what we've got right now - and could just move the one we have in the lounge there and get a new one downstairs, but D has opinions on the set up he wants so it's a bit difficult
<Myrtti> I'd be happy with a Youview box but he's flown for years with Miglia EyeTV on Mac Mini
<davmor2> Morning all
<ali1234> AlanBell: https://gist.github.com/ali1234/8281203
<foobarry> does youview run on linux?
<foobarry> or some prorietary OS
<foobarry> allagedly linux (wikipedia)
<ali1234> it;s humax so almost certainly linux
<dwatkins> I just bought a Humax stb, it's ace.
<dwatkins> It's only got one tuner, but you can watch a recording and record something else at the same time, which also has the advantage you can mostly skip the adverts by fast forwarding.
<directhex> technically single-tuner boxes can record 2 things at once
<MartijnVdS> but only from the same transponder/frequency
<directhex> but not all pairs of channels are possible, and most STBs don't implement it
<foobarry> if on the same mux
<foobarry> my topfield has 2 tuners and often can record 3 things
<diplo> ali1234: That looks good, may have a tinker myself
<ali1234> what i'm doing is writing some software that takes contacts (name, address, telephone number) and cleans them up, deduplicates etc
<ali1234> the fun part is that it doesn't care about the input format. you can just feed it a bunch of csv files from different sources and it figures out which parts are phone numbers, addresses etc
<diplo> Nice, I've seen proprietary stuff to do that ( we had it at my last place ) but could do with it with our current software but not even in scope yet
<ali1234> hmm... i need a list of common first names
<bigcalm> bz2ing  9.2GB db dump appears to take a rather long time
<directhex> jim. jim is a common first name
 * bigcalm twiddles his thumbs
 * popey stabs headphones
<popey> they disconnect every 5 mins
<popey> can't tell if it's a headphone issue or linux bluetooth one
<bigcalm> Boot to windows?
<dwatkins> directhex: I wondered about that, I'll see if I can force it to record two things from the same transpoder
<ali1234> directhex: yeah got a couple of jims in here
<dwatkins> transponder, even
<popey> well, yes, but that changes too much
<dwatkins> ali1234: you'll have great fun with my name, it can be spelled in about four different ways ;)
<dwatkins> Dominic, Dominick, Dominik or Dominique
<ali1234> popey: probably not a bluetooth issue, it tends to degrade before disconnecting
<Laney> dymynyc
<dwatkins> and then there's the list of salutation, from Mr, Mrs, Ms etc. to Wing Commander, Brigadeer, Judge etc.
<ali1234> my dataset isn't that big
<directhex> transponder for DVB-S, multiplex for DVB-T
 * dwatkins bucks the trend by starting e-mails with "Hi $NAME" and ending them with "Sincerely"
<dwatkins> I have no idea what "Regards" means, so I don't use it any more.
<foobarry> it means "best wishes"
<MooDoo> dwatkins: http://www.englishforums.com/English/BestRegardsRegardsYoursSincerely-Answer/bpbgv/post.htm
<dwatkins> foobarry: I put that in my christmas cards, not e-mails
<foobarry> i don't put anything
<foobarry> sometimes "cheers"
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, it varies from country to country in interesting ways, too - in Sweden, you always use first names, in Germany, you rarely use first names.
<foobarry> then again, i've pretty much given up capital letters too
<dwatkins> I probably over-capitalise, as every noun has a capital letter in German, and I write a lot of German.
<foobarry> you could use a forward slash:  /dwatkins
<dwatkins> I don't even know if a language needs to be capitalised in English, come to think of it.
<dwatkins> foobarry: interesting, but that would make me think it was an IRC command.
<dwatkins> 11:39 -%- Irssi: Unknown command: dwatkins
<foobarry> /emailquit
<foobarry> /eof
<foobarry> would be great
<Laney> \0
<dwatkins> I've seen e-mails with the important information in the subject, where the body contains just: EOM
<foobarry> or NM
<dwatkins> End of message, I assume, but I doubt that's an official TLA.
<dwatkins> Never Mind, foobarry?
<foobarry> no message
<Laney> See Subject
<foobarry> i'm fasting until lunch, and i'm starvin like marvin
<foobarry> keep finding sweets and stuff, and i have half opened pringles on my desk
<dwatkins> I always think of the Stargate episode Zero Hour when I see the phrase "Never mind": http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080107220726/stargate/images/f/f6/Zero_Hour_(Stargate_SG-1).jpg - Jack writes a long letter saying how he doesn't want to do the job, ending with this
<foobarry> never fails to amuse me how you pc is unusable when windows decides to update
<dwatkins> in fairness, my Ubuntu virtual machine was rather slow whilst I was apt-get updating
<foobarry> at least it is "in session"
<foobarry> rather than "no user mode"
<dwatkins> oh wow, yeah - I forgot about that
<dwatkins> Windows 8 updates itself when I shut it down
<foobarry> i accidentally rebooted and lost a whole afternoon
<foobarry> then i turned it on and its still going , and 2 more reboots
<MooDoo> dwatkins: you can just shutdown, normally the option for installing updates is on the install and reboot options
<dwatkins> I wonder if you can install the updates silently in an enterprise environment, or whether that also requires a reboot of Windows
<foobarry> i only use it for vmware until i've rolled out 5.5 properly
<dwatkins> I tried running XP in virtualbox at home, but the network throughput was terrible.
<dwatkins> I use vmware fusion quite a lot for OS X and Windows stuff.
<foobarry> vmware tools enabled?
<dwatkins> yeah, I think virtualbox has its own tools and they were installed, foobarry
<dwatkins> I ended up rebooting into Windows 8, as I had 2 TB of data to upload to Bitcasa.
<foobarry> they are selling christmas puds in sainsburys for 10p
<popey> yummy
<foobarry> they look really nice
<foobarry> but i cant really eat them. bit too "good" for you
<foobarry> *for me
<daftykins> because of the fruit? :)
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> dried fruit especially...
<foobarry> on a related note, anybody bought unbranded drugs from assetchemist before?
<Myrtti> this is interesting http://falkvinge.net/2014/01/06/censorship-causes-liability-uk-isps-need-to-be-sued-way-out-into-atlantic/
<popey> \o/ foldio
<Myrtti> popey: A or B?
<Myrtti> I can't decide
<popey> B
<Myrtti> mm
<popey> figured I would mostly photograph on black or white
<popey> and the extra light is handy
<Myrtti> this is true
<davmor2> popey: that's the lighting studio thingy that was crowdfunded right?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> the one I couldn't find in Thursday or Friday :)
<Mez> Hi all, looking for suggestions for gfx cards, as my current card refuses to play with my new machine (can't boot to live cd with it).  Any suggestions ?
<Mez> (hoping for 4 monitors)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ^
<daftykins> Mez: you've tried with 'nomodeset' i take it?
<daftykins> what's the current card?
<MartijnVdS> Intel -> 2x HDMI, 1x DP + 1x "Chained" DP :)
<Mez> daftykins: it plays fine with the command line stuff - just not once it gets to GUI (seems to hardlock)
<Mez> current card is nVidia Quadro NVS 450
<daftykins> ooh-err
<TwistedLucidity> ? That should work.
<Mez> MartijnVdS: does ubuntu support chained DP yet ?
<daftykins> that's both with nouveau and the nvidia proprietary driver?
<daftykins> i didn't think Linux was playing ball with daisy-chain DP
<Mez> daftykins: I can't get to a point to install the proprietary driver.
<daftykins> how come? can't you do it via command line?
<Mez> daftykins: once it gets past ~7seconds on the boot, it seems to hardlock
<daftykins> is that during trying to start X though?
<Mez> daftykins: quite possibly... it doesnt mention it in the log
<TwistedLucidity> Ctral-Alt-F1; see if you get a TTY. If so, log in and try sudo apt-get install nvidia.... (I forget the exact package name; sorry)
<daftykins> nvidia-current perhaps
<popey> that wont work on a live cd
<Mez> ctrl+alt+f1 doesnt give me a tty
<davmor2> Mez: did you try the nomodeset option?
<popey> live cd will be nouveau
<daftykins> oh yeah we were talking about the livecd - doh.
<Mez> I can get it to a point where the machine is installed, and I get the nvidia stuff installed.
<Mez> That's using internal.
<Mez> Then once I've done that, switching to the external just hardlocks
<TwistedLucidity> Wait...is this Optimus?
<Mez> no
<daftykins> you don't get optimus with quadro
<daftykins> at least i think 0o
<daftykins> plus it sounds like a desktop
<Mez> it's definitely a desktop (I'm re-installing using the on-board GFX atm)
<TwistedLucidity> Err....I'm on an Optimus unit just now. With a Qudaro.
<TwistedLucidity> Doesn't work, right enough
<TwistedLucidity> Under optimus, never tried it with just the discrete card (no need)
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: is that a more business end laptop then?
<Mez> hmmm... brb
<TwistedLucidity> Indeed it is; but it should be the same. Or very similar to anyway; shouldn't it?
<daftykins> same as what?
<TwistedLucidity> Mez's desktop set-up
<TwistedLucidity> Two GPUs
<daftykins> no optimus works in a completely different way
<daftykins> in the desktop case, he's changing display outputs between the card and the on-die graphics
<TwistedLucidity> For using both at once; yes. But swicthing should be the same.
<daftykins> and/or pulling the card
<TwistedLucidity> IAye
<daftykins> but in optimus' case the outputs typically are shared between the graphics 'chips' and only get used by one copying frame buffer data to the other
<TwistedLucidity> I would imagine it's a UEFI/BIOS setting to state which GPU should be used.
<TwistedLucidity> Not if you say to only use one. Where the outputs go really depends on what is wired to what; which tends to muddy the waters.
<daftykins> yeah, not sure what modern systems offer. perhaps they have that old style perameter of "init display first: PEG/PCI"
<daftykins> that's what i mean yep, in my asus' laptops case, the VGA comes from the nvidia chip direct, whilst HDMI and the internal display are off the on-die intel
<ali1234> i really doubt it's done by framebuffer copying
<daftykins> maybe not then, i thought i'd vaguely read that once
<ali1234> i suppose it's possible
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234 It is, sometimes. Varies from OEM to OEM though depending on how they wired their stuff.
<ali1234> that would really suck very badly though
<TwistedLucidity> Well....kinda
<ali1234> for like 10p they could put an analogue switch into the laptop
<TwistedLucidity> It works fine on Windows. But on GNU/Linux.....
<Mez> ok, I'm back on the desktop.  I've now got 3 screens running, 2 on the onboard, 1 on the Quadro.  The screen is detected by nouveau, and works properly (though, it has some issues where if I move my mouse round the screen , it'll show multiple mouse cursors for a moment, then clear them)
<TwistedLucidity> So you are running both GPUs at once?
<Mez> at the moment, yes.
<Mez> If I try to use just the Quadro, it fails to boot.
<directhex> Mez, how are your monitors plugged in?
<TwistedLucidity> And if you wanted to just run on the Quadro, how do you do that?
<Mez> directhex: in what sense?
<Mez> TwistedLucidity: that's my problem. :)
<directhex> displayport? hdmi?
<ali1234> i think he means are they DVI, HDMI, display port
<Mez> directhex: all DP
<directhex> ok. can't believe i'm going to say this, but you want a radeon. "eyefinity" cards should have 6 mini-dp ports
<Mez> (well, DP on the cards, DVI from monitor through adapters)
<directhex> oh, wait
<directhex> NO
<directhex> that is NOT DP
<TwistedLucidity> Mez: You said earlier you were getting a "hardlock" on tjust the Qudaro. How did you tell the PC to just use the Quadro?
<ali1234> radeon = badeon
<Mez> TwistedLucidity: plugged the monitors into it, turned on the option that bitches if you use the onboard GFX
<TwistedLucidity> What option, where?
<TwistedLucidity> UEFI, BIOS.....?
<Mez> (the only video option in bios is "multi monitor" - if disabled, and something is plugged into the onboard, it displays a message saying that I should plug into the add-on)
<directhex> the limit to the number of monitors is based on the number of independent pixel clocks the GPU needs to support. all "real" DP monitors can share a pixel clock, non-DP (including DP->anythingelse adapters) come from a total usually of 3
<Mez> TwistedLucidity: lemme reboot into that mode, and see if I can get it working
<dwatkins> what do people use on Ubuntu for drawing trees of ideas, graphs etc.?
<MartijnVdS> graphviz?
<popey> i have heard of people using some kde/qt thing i always forget the name of
<dwatkins> thanks folks, graphviz looks like it should do what I need
<TwistedLucidity> Oh bollocks....there's a few min-chart things. Err.......names...names...
<dwatkins> don't wanna pay Â£70 for omnigraffle
<popey> braindump is one
<popey> mind something
<popey> freemind?
<Mez> ok, so - now I booted - using nomodeset, or failsafeX from recovery option, I get a beep when it should start X, and then it locks (only responding to alt+sysrq+b)
<dwatkins> cue the bongos
<dwatkins> and it's leet o'clock
<foobarry> dwatkins: freemind or pencil
<bigcalm> Sounds like lunch time for me
<dwatkins> thanks
<Mez> http://imgur.com/a/I05aF
<foobarry> or use a google chrome app
<popey> Mez: does your display dispense money?
<popey> looks like you hit the jackpot
<Mez> lol
<Mez> I wish
<Mez> I just dump loose change there
<popey> thats ubuntu?
<Mez> Ubuntu Gnome
<ali1234> hmm i have the same monitor but mine doesn't have that handy change tray what's that about?
<popey> Mez: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Debugging
<Mez> ali1234: there are two versions of the stand... one has a static base, with the tray, the other has the rotational stuff
<Mez> and the thing that lets you lower/heighten the display
<ali1234> that'll be it then
<Mez> popey: I'vw looked through that - but not come across anything like this in there
<foobarry> lol i put my various gonks there on my monitor base
<ali1234> my desk is permanently covered in junk so i would probably get some use out of the tray thing
<TwistedLucidity> I cleared mine the other day. So nice to be able to see the keyboard!
<Mez> TwistedLucidity / directhex: any suggestions for what to do from here?
<TwistedLucidity> I'm sorry, I don't. My only other thought is that the monitors are plugged into the wrong output OR things are getting thrown by the DP/DVI conversion.
<TwistedLucidity> Is there a LUG near you?
<Mez> 2.
<dwatkins> Mez: are you able to switch consoles at-all?
<Mez> dwatkins: nope
<Mez> seems to be freezing up before the init of the vts
<dwatkins> Mez: ok, does the OS actually come up, e.g. can you ssh into the machine?
<ali1234> serial port debugging
<ali1234> this is what you must do...
<Mez> dwatkins: just trying to find that out
<ali1234> i hope your motherboard actually has a serial port
 * Mez goes and checks arp
<foobarry> cd
<TwistedLucidity> Mez: If you can make one of the LUGs, it might be easier to sort in person. Every LUGer I know can be bribed with beer. :-)
<Mez> ali1234: unlikely.
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: to an outsider, some of the LUGs, thats all they do..bribe each other with beer to drink more beer
<Mez> TwistedLucidity: It's a works machine, and I'm not lugging 4 monitors + PC + gubbins :)
<daftykins> XD
<Mez> (and I'm actually still technically lugmaster for sb)
<Mez> ssh wouldn't be installed anyway :(
<TwistedLucidity> Mez: Ah. Well that's a bit of a bugger, innit?
<Mez> nope, cause I can get to a console via recovery :)
<TwistedLucidity> I meant the LUG thing. If you do get it fixed....write it up!
<TwistedLucidity> Have you seen this? http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2296633 No reply from OP though.
<Mez> password
<Mez> ok, so, now I'm on the system where X has crashed... the system is working, I'm ssh'd in... what now?
<popey> Mez: thats why i posted that wiki page
<popey> it details how to debug x issues via ssh
<ali1234> check all the usual places - dmesg, syslog, /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<MartijnVdS> lspci
<Mez> the logs all seem like things are actually working :(
<popey> http://liliputing.com/2014/01/lenovo-beacon-199-home-media-server-xbmc-pre-loaded-6tb-storage.html
<TwistedLucidity> Try the BusID thing?
<Mez> I have an error now :)
<Mez> (EE) NOUVEAU(G1): failed to set mode: No space left on device
<MartijnVdS> so.. not enough display memory?
<foobarry> surely disk full
<diplo> Looks good popey
<popey> hmm, bluetooth range on nexus 7 is far greater than my x220
<Mez> I think it's the pixmap it's trying to write to - doesn't like 4 screens.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: nah, it's just ENOSPC
<Mez> weirdly though, the intel driver is trying to set the framebuffer?
<Mez> possibly worth blacklisting that ?
<MartijnVdS> Mez: no, it's NOUVEAU right?
<popey> bug 1242478
<lubotu3> bug 1242478 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Multiple graphics problems, regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242478
<popey> not limited to nouveau
<Mez> MartijnVdS: the log shows that intel is creating a fb
<popey> bug 1220420
<lubotu3> bug 1220420 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in __malloc_assert()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220420
<Mez> (II) intel(0): resizing framebuffer to 3840x1080
<MartijnVdS> Mez: do you also have intel graphics?
<Mez> MartijnVdS: onboard.
<MartijnVdS> Mez: anything connected to it
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Mez> nothing connected to it.
<Mez> Was on original install though
<Mez> MartijnVdS: does that make a difference (that it's loading the Intel driver stuff?)
<MartijnVdS> Mez: well, it's probably detecting the Intel graphics *only*
<MartijnVdS> Mez: can you disable it in the bios?
<Mez> MartijnVdS: nope
<Mez> not that I can find
<Mez> and the logs say it's detecting both
 * Mez bangs head against wall
<SuperMatt> Mez: having fun there?
<Mez> SuperMatt: not really.
<Mez> All logs say my GFX are working.
<Mez> Monitors say otherwise.
<Mez> Yes, they are turned on
<daftykins> Mez: tried juggling around the DP outputs on that card for fun?
<Mez> daftykins: yup
<daftykins> and you tried installing nvidia-current just in case?
<Mez> yup
<Mez> nvidia-current, and the copy of my old Xorg.conf
<foobarry> usually bios have an option to enforce/disable onboard vga
<Mez> with the right BusIDs
<daftykins> what did the Xorg.0.log look like after that?
<Mez> juggling
<Mez> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6703692/
<Mez> ok, I just got *something*
<Mez> so it seems it's gdm bitching
<Mez> or at least failing
<Mez> cause lightdm just gave me a login screen
<andylockran> !family
<andylockran> I meant
<andylockran> !swearing
<lubotu3> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family-friendly, polite, and professional.
<SuperMatt> are we complaining about the female dog word there?
<daftykins> seems so
<SuperMatt> because... I remember it being used in the grange hill-esque timeslot on the bbc before
<SuperMatt> so like 5.10>5.35
<andylockran> we are
<SuperMatt> of all words, I think it's one of the least offensive and could be let slide
<Laney> of /all/ words?
<Laney> :P
<SuperMatt> of all potentially sweary words
<foobarry> i'm quite anti sweary, but are we pretending there's more than 30 people who are active in this chan ;)
<dwatkins> where did the day go?
<daftykins> it's my fault, when i'm actually up for one they last ~5 mins
<daftykins> :'(
<awilkins> foobarry, Yeah, but the channel is publicly archived too so small children could google it.
<TwistedLucidity> Small children could Google a lot of things. There's a variety of venacular that we know to avoid, but other words...matter of choice and of culture.
<TwistedLucidity> Also of context
<TwistedLucidity> I don't see b***ing being much of an issue, but I appreciate that we shouldn't turn the IRC blue.
<dwatkins> I was surprised that they referred to hell on Doctor Who in a manner which some consider swearing.
<dwatkins> Much like that banned australian tourism advert.
<AlanBell> TwistedLucidity: Mez: I have a highlight for it as it is a reasonably good marker of bad behavior going on
<dwatkins> good job we don't have Jesse Pinkman in here.
<AlanBell> I don't have much of a problem with the specific context
<TwistedLucidity> AlanBell: Eh?
<AlanBell> it is just an alerter
<SuperMatt> I don't think there are many swear words which really carry much of the gravity that swear words used to have. It is the context now which is more important, and in some cases an innoculous word can be used with worse effect than a regular swear word
<SuperMatt> for instance, I would say that in some cases, finger could be a much worse word that the aforementioned b word
<TwistedLucidity> SuperMatt: Hence why I mentioned context.
<foobarry> i haven't knowingly sworn in >25 years
<SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nVBZieBmXI tim minchin covers it quite well
<foobarry> (but depends on definition..)
<dwatkins> Gorillas have spontaneously 'invented' insults such as "you dirty bad toilet"
<AlanBell> tim minchin is teh awesome
<TwistedLucidity> I tend not to swear in the written word, but verbally....yeah, I should check myself at times.
<foobarry> parents think they don't swear aroudn their kids, but their kids are sweary..
<TwistedLucidity> Often they don't really know what the word means, but they know it gets a reaction.
<TwistedLucidity> Know what I hate? You do something one, don't do it again for months, and then it takes longer the second time to remember what you did the first time (or to find your notes). Grr.....
<TwistedLucidity> s/one/once
<diplo> God my company is sooooo insecure!
<foobarry> hence wiki
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm....blasphemy. Is that allowed? :-P
<diplo> lots of sshd processes, so somesome says it was hacked and deleted processes users and clsoed the case
<diplo> closed*
<diplo> I was interested, it was not clean! Still got an ircd running and other programs
<diplo> :/
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yeah, I really should. My employer uses a wiki (badly), so it's of little use. And no time to look into improving it.
<foobarry> writing stuff down = improving it :D
<TwistedLucidity> See a simple text file? That is how the wiki is used. It really doesn't help, so everyone keeps their own notes, leading to the same problem being solved time and time again.
<foobarry> twiki is nice
<foobarry> or dokuwiki
<TwistedLucidity> Wouldn't be allowed to install it.
<foobarry> apt-get install new-job
<TwistedLucidity> Heh...like anyone would hire me!
<TwistedLucidity> Oh....virt-manager just collapsed. That's not very nice.
<SuperMatt> it's ok, virt-manager is just a front end
<SuperMatt> which is why I prefer it over virtualbox
<SuperMatt> I can have lots of vms running, but I can chose which ones I have visible
<TwistedLucidity> Aye, but I wanted to check on a few wee things and thought the UI would be easier "ksshaskpass(7351)/kdeui (kdelibs): Session bus not found"
<SuperMatt> other than that though, virtualbox is extremely mature, and the only oracle product I enjoy using
<directhex> virtualbox is a disaster
<SuperMatt> why'd you say that?
<SuperMatt> I mean, I'm not going to use it in production, but it's great for "my first virtual machine"
<TwistedLucidity> VBox is great for fiddling around on a desktop and for running development environments.
<SuperMatt> indeed
<TwistedLucidity> I prefer it to VMWare for that kind of thing.
<SuperMatt> sure, but if you wanna just do some really basic testing on your local machine before diving in and making a huge project out of something, virtualbox is pretty good
<directhex> "vdfuse" is gone in 4.2, and "VBoxManage clonehd" to convert to a less crap format takes literally HOURS for a small disk image
<SuperMatt> it's kinda great for "oh hey, I wonder if this will work" <configure virtualbox instances> "oh cool, let's create a full on dev environment for this in vmware"
<directhex> EFI variables are not saved, so if you install an EFI OS, you need to manually run the boot loader from the EFI shell on every boot
<SuperMatt> plus, virtualbox works on windows, linux and mac
<directhex> 3D just doesn't work at *all*
<SuperMatt> I don't use 3D very much
<TwistedLucidity> I've not noticed that. And the seamless desktop works well.
<SuperMatt> I mostly use vbox to create an environment of 3-5 servers for testing stuff
<TwistedLucidity> Then again, I don't need 3D on my works PC.
<SuperMatt> Virtualbox is *not* the solution for enterprise, at all
<SuperMatt> but it does have its place and it does that stuff quite well
<TwistedLucidity> VMWare Workstation is an utter abomination with GNU/Linux. Which is why I switched to VBox
<SuperMatt> ^this
<SuperMatt> oooohkay
<TwistedLucidity> o_O
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> SO MANY HATS
<TwistedLucidity> Such funk
<TwistedLucidity> Much naughty step
<SuperMatt> wow
<foobarry> such 2013
<SuperMatt> DOGE 4 LIFE
<daftykins> i was tired of that meme the first time i saw it :(
<SuperMatt> it's a weird meme that sorta grows on you
<SuperMatt> when I first saw it, I didn't know what to make of it, but it's a kinda harmless meme that's fun to replicate
<popey> It didnt grow on me.
<popey> I am with daftykins.
<daftykins> ^_^
<Myrtti> sometimes I really get a derp moment
<Myrtti> "I know, I'll ping my router and log the times to a file, but how would I monitor the values on that while it's doing it? I know, with watch!"
<Myrtti> two seconds in I remembered tail -f exists
<daftykins> getting some sketchy wireless?
<Myrtti> that seems to be my lot in life
<daftykins> hehe
<Myrtti> usually it's under 2ms but there are spikes of up to 600ms, and then there's moments when nothing just seems to work, although none have come yet while I've been logging
<daftykins> do you have much congestion in the neighbourhood?
<daftykins> i.e. other networks sharing channel
<TwistedLucidity> And virt-manager works again. Solution: purge ksshaskpass and install ssh-askpass-gnome.
<jussi> popey: remember the butter I made? just finishing off the second batch of it - its been great so far
<jussi> still one block in the freezer + I gave one to the cousin in law...
<popey> â»
<popey> sadly out local shop had none on discount
<jussi> popey: ahh well. can't have it all
<popey> â»
<Myrtti> wut http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tango-pc-worlds-most-powerful-pocketable-dockable-gameable-officeable-pc
<popey> hah, looks like an 8-track
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJWgRghIihQ
<dvrr> Hiiiiiiiiiiiiii
<daftykins> er hi
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dvrr> create pid file for tomcat
<dvrr> how to create pid for  tomcat  (monitar tomcat)
<dvrr> MooDoo
<bigcalm> Myrtti: the guy sounds like sabdfl
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: cool, we need those here
<popey> i love the way they make a big deal about gaming
<bigcalm> SteamOS effect?
<popey> its listed as a supported platform
<bigcalm> Sod it, I'm off to the chippy
<popey> \o/ chippy
<dwatkins> I wish I could get my dad to use Ubuntu.
 * dwatkins is currently remote-supporting wifi issues on Windws XP
<daftykins> dwatkins: i feel bad for you :( no man should be touching XP except to get data off ;)
<daftykins> bbs
<dwatkins> daftykins: the trouble is, that it mostly works
<dwatkins> His PC probably has a hardware problem - the power supply seems to have issues, as strange things have been happening, but I can't rule-out something like driver corruption or a memory issue.
<dwatkins> Thankfully, the Ubuntu bootable USB stick has a memory test :D
<jussi> popey: you were into 3D printing right? seen this before? http://www.peachyprinter.com/
<popey> i have
<popey> i didnt back it tho
<jussi> popey: ahh ok
<ali1234> that's the one that connects through your soundcard
<ali1234> i never understood why that is a good idea
<ali1234> i don't really believe it is easier or cheaper than just having a usb interface
<brobostigon> anyone watching the pebble ces feed?
<popey> I'm more concerned about the usability / rigidity of the things made with the peachy
<dwatkins> brobostigon: is that the watch?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> the pebble is, yeah
<popey> never seen the point of those either
<popey> but its 1st gen so going to be ropey
<brobostigon> i am trying to watch, and its just failing totally.
<popey> what url?
<directhex> first final steam machine detailed: http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5279860/digital-storm-details-its-first-steam-machine-a-hybrid-windows-and
<brobostigon> its linked form gettpebble.com to youtube.
<brobostigon> getpebble*
<popey> haha $249 for their pebble steel
<popey> thats big
<popey> and looks just like a pc
<popey> a pretty fugly one at that
<directhex> here's a second: http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/6/5280256/cyberpowerpc-steam-machine-will-compete-with-consoles-at-499/in/3514777
<brobostigon> dammit, my connection must be crap, i cant view it at all.
<popey> mind you the people who buy watches are insane anyway, so probably see $249 as a fine price
<bigcalm> davmor2: ^
<popey> nutty looking box
 * brobostigon wouldnt pay that
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'll let Sue know you said she was insane :P
<bigcalm> Haha :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: personally I think people who spend more on Pens than watches are the ones that need straight jackets :P
<bigcalm> Ahem
<bigcalm> Last pen I bought was in Belgium
<bigcalm> I think I might have a problem
<bigcalm> Last pen accessory I bought was a 1930's wooden rocker blotter from the USA for Hayley for xmas. Best present I ever bought her I think
<bigcalm> From the reaction any way
<bigcalm> Present she didn't already know about, I'll add
<ali1234> popey: the message is sinking in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNs91Dy9tFQ
<davmor2> \o/ but same on them not knowing about Ubuntu :)
<ali1234> davmor2: they do know about ubuntu
<davmor2> ali1234: they don't mention Ubuntu they talk about the motorola lapdock thing and then say google  can do it
<brobostigon> has it started yet? i managed to get the youtube feed working?
<ali1234> davmor2: just because they don't mention it doesn't mean they don't know about it...
<davmor2> bigcalm: I think my watch collection comes to the grand total of Â£300, what about you pen collection and have you insured it I think you should :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: Um :)
<popey> my watch collection comes to approximately 30 quid
<popey> 3 watches, all Casio F-91W variants
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> friend of mine has rotating watch display cases for his collection >_<
<daftykins> probably tens of thousands locked up in them
<bigcalm> Oh my
<Myrtti> Casio LA670WE for me
<bigcalm> davmor2: you should comment on that video
<Myrtti> I recently did find my stash of a different kind of watches that have ran out of battery
<davmor2> popey: I have a poljot automatic, a Constantin Weisz Automatic and battery powered one that was like Â£30 :)
<Myrtti> stash == underneath a lounge chair cushion I hadn't raised for a good while
<daftykins> Myrtti: haha
<ali1234> davmor2: do you remember this? http://assets.fiercemarkets.net/public/mdano/amis/firefox-jolla-ubuntu.jpg
<ali1234> the fourth guy on stage there (not pictured) is this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FLQ9WN2BK4
<bigcalm> ghfgh
<bigcalm> Fully charged batteries *do* make that keyboard work then
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * bigcalm drums fingers waiting for ye olde steamos to install
<bigcalm> It's up to the 2nd 'a' in 'Select and install software'
<bigcalm> Tum-te-tum
<popey> took 9 mins start to finish here
<popey> on a core2 duo
<popey> iirc
<bigcalm> This is on a core2 duo as well
<bigcalm> But a spinning rush disk
<popey> ssd
<popey> ahh
<bigcalm> Yeah
<bigcalm> Yay, finished that bit, what's next?
<bigcalm> Grub
<bigcalm> Think I might have to plug a network cable into the machine
<Azelphur> Hmm, I asked my ISP to enable IPv6 on my connection, the said "By enabling the new IP range this will replace your existing radius details, would you still like the IPV6 to be added to your broadband account"
<Azelphur> anyone know what radius details means?
<directhex> radius is used for auth
<Azelphur> so it'd change my PPPoE login details, basically?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: probably
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: probably best to ask them what it means :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> Azelphur, sounds like
<ali1234> Azelphur: radius is an authentication server, basically if you don't know what it is then you're not using it in a way that changing it will have any affect on you
<Azelphur> makes sense
<ali1234> i would guess that what will happen is that switching you to ipv6 requires that they reset the configuration on the router, which will clear out any custom settings you have
<ali1234> so you should back up your config at the very least
<Azelphur> ali1234: if they can hack into my dd-wrt router and reset my credentials, they are very clever and credit to them xD
<Azelphur> sorry, openwrt now xD
<ali1234> well you never know... most openwrt devices have some binary blobs
<Azelphur> ali1234: I built mine from source \o/
<ali1234> it still has blobs in the source
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> what arch is it?
<Azelphur> true, I built it because I needed the broadcom proprietary blobs
<Azelphur> It's a Linksys WRT610N, so arm
<ali1234> hmm is that ethernet only?
<Azelphur> ali1234: yep
<ali1234> yeah... so you'll need to reconfigure all the wan stuff
<Azelphur> ali1234: I mean, it has wifi, but no ADSL in it
<Azelphur> yea shouldn't be too hard
<ali1234> presumably you have another box with the actual modem in it?
<Azelphur> I had to configure it in the first place :)
<ali1234> that's the thing they will reconfigure
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, this is bt infinity so they have dedicated boxes
<Azelphur> afaik those have no configuration o.O
<ali1234> they do... but the ISP controls it all
<ali1234> that's what they are talking about
<Azelphur> I see
<ali1234> you login to the BT box with PPPoE... so yeah, what you first said
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-07
<mapps> yo
<MooDoo_> morning all
<dvrr> good morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<directhex> 13 SteamOS (wheezy, more or less) games consoles coming 2014: http://www.engadget.com/gallery/valve-steam-machines-press-shots/#!slide=2134465
<MartijnVdS> now all we need is a few Linux games
<MartijnVdS> high-profile ones
<dvrr> tomcat as service  i created  it's working but  pid (process Id) not created  how to create PID  my tomcat script http://paste.ubuntu.com/6707920/
<dvrr> DooMoo
<MooDoo> I thought when tomcat starts, it's created it's own pid
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: every process has its own pid
<dvrr> i  am using  monit  tool  to monitoring  tomcat server
<diplo_> Morning all
<MooDoo> moring diplo_
<diplo_> Drenched again! It downpours as I get out of the car to walk the kids into school
<diplo_> Fed up with it now
<diplo> I have a moat around my house where the ground is soooo waterlogged!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: is it filled with alligators? ddo you have a drawbridge?
<diplo> I need one, will take a photo later.. the path at the end of my garden has about a 4foot length of puddle about 4-5 inches deep
<MooDoo> ouch
<dvrr> it is passable to monitoring   tomcat server  using monit tool or another tools (monit  also i search in google) please guide me
<MooDoo> what you breaking DJones ;)
<DJones> Just seeing if we get a profusion of funkyhats rejoining
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do think Valve are playing a very clever game [pun intended] here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/valves-gabe-newell-offers-more-steam-machines-than-speaking-minutes-at-ces/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 13 Steam Machine manufacturers.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Loads of competition
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, and only one powered by intel graphics
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, a scary number using fglrx, considering how bad fglrx is
<MartijnVdS> but AMD APUs are so cheap!
<directhex> MartijnVdS, which is why they're being used
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hopefully this will encourage AMD to make their Linux drivers better then ;-)
<dvee> how to  monitoring  (MySQL Database Server) queries which are taking longer time
<TheOpenSourcerer> dvee: slow-query-log
<jussi> DJones: http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-tabpro-8-4-official-specs-features-pricing-release-date-330966/ - some more info :)
<DJones> jussi: That looks interesting, the only downside I can see from a quick glance is the touchwiz overlay on top of Android
<jussi> DJones: Im certain there will be a cyanogenmod for it (and touchwiz isnt all bad tbh)
<jussi> it actually looks incredibly nice device to me
<jussi> Im sure its going to be crazy expensive though...
<DJones> Wouldn't surprise me if it was around Â£350, maybe even higher
<SuperMatt> oh why the home screen packed full of widgets?
<SuperMatt> I can't be the only person that hates it?
<DJones> The Tab 3 Lite looks as though that will sell for $130, so I'd expect the 8" to be be a fair bit higher than a Nexus 7, pricing may even around  the nearest sized ipad
<DJones> SuperMatt: No, I hardly have any widgets on mine, I just use the home screen as the app launcher, if I need a widget, I'll stick it on one of the side screens
<SuperMatt> I think manufacturers are confusing our desire for information with a want to have it forced down our throats
<SuperMatt> I want my information at my own pace
<DJones> At least there's always the trash bin :)
<DJones> Doesn't matter what you get, whether its Apple, Android or Windows, you tailor it to how you use it, manufacturers probably just include half the apps for a kickback from the developer
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> hi
<popey> Yo
<MooDoo> morning mornign
<jussi> I should totally learn how to use LO properly someday
<jussi> in the meantime, can someone remind me how to make a yes/no dropdown box in a column of cells?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<Laney> JamesTait: is it over?
<JamesTait> Laney, "it"?
<Laney> well, I have no idea what "day" it is
<MooDoo> mornign JamesTait
<Laney> I don't know quite how to deal with that :P
<MooDoo> and Laney how are you two today?
<JamesTait> Laney, I think popey has taken over that duty. ;)
<JamesTait> Hi MooDoo. :) Very well thanks, yourself?
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah I'm ok thanks, just looking at my CV, think it needs updating lol
<Laney> doing alright
<xnox> It really ain't a rainfall, but a skyfall
<foobarry> does anyone else have problems with damp stuff in their loft at the mo?
<foobarry> stuff is going moudly
<MooDoo> nope, you have a hot house as that sounds like condensation or a leak?
<foobarry> i think my roof is open under the eaves
<foobarry> for air flow
<jussi> MooDoo: you are looking for a job?
<MooDoo> jussi: always on the look out :) just seen a nice ahem windows ahem one in nottingham
<foobarry> windows jobs should come with a precription for gaviscon
<MooDoo> lol
<jussi> what is your specialty?
<MooDoo> jussi: jack of all trades lol I'm a team leader for an ISP at the moment, was 2nd line support
<jussi> ahh ok
<jussi> btw, anyone with answers to my question?
<jussi>  :D
<dwatkins> jussi: a radio button in a table?
<jussi> dwatkins: no, just a simple yes/no dropdown. I will also need a 3 way dropdown soon, so Im hoping to learn the technique...
<dwatkins> jussi: you mean an <option> list? http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/option
<foobarry> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/diy-it-guy/diy-add-drop-down-lists-to-libreoffice-spreadsheets/
<foobarry> data validity, list, type yes no click ok
<foobarry> not intuitive unless you are told
<jussi> foobarry: ahh that was easy. exactly what I was after
<jussi> foobarry: and dwatkins thank you very much
<foobarry> i've resorted to buying meds over the internet because it takes 2 weeks to see my doctor
<foobarry> something is wrong with NHS
<jussi> foobarry: just be thankful you dont live in the US without insurance ;)
<foobarry> not sure it would make a difference
<foobarry> i haven't seen my doc in few years, except for when i showed her my toe last year and she said meh
<jussi> yeah, but have you seen the price of meds in the US?
<foobarry> more expensive than high st chemist?
<foobarry> i haz some medical issue that are never solved in a 5 minute appt with the doc, so they never get fixed
<foobarry> because docs aren't intersted unless it can be fixed with antibitiocs
<foobarry> at least the ones in london
<Laney> all doctors in london
<Laney> complain and/or change surgery
<foobarry> what surgery in london has a doctor that isn't treating patients like a conveyor belt ?
<foobarry> population issues i guess
<foobarry> whats a good font for writing technical design documents?
<MartijnVdS> courier 8-)
<jussi> foobarry: comic sans? :P
 * MartijnVdS tends to go with "whatever the default is"
<foobarry> times NR
<jussi> I am particularly fond of Deja vu sans :D
<MartijnVdS> Computer Modern :)
<MooDoo> i'm with jussi comic sans ;)
<MartijnVdS> but.. Computer Modern! LaTeX default font!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Liberation
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu!
<jussi> btw foobarry - is there a way in LO to automatically make rows alternating light and dark shades? (for readability)
<foobarry> dunno jussi
<jussi> if someone else knows...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Jussi - I just C&P your question into google. This was the first answer: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/9205/is-there-a-way-to-add-background-color-to-alternate-rows-of-a-tablespreadsheet/
<foobarry> http://inspirationlab.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/infographiclarge_v2.png
<jussi> hrm, do they have hapankorppu  in the UK?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> hanky panky we have
<diddledan> that's n0rty tho
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ooops: https://twitter.com/ntoll/status/420494122118422528
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: so BT users can't use IRC [freenode] unless they opt out the controls things?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or you have to explicitly allow freenode.net from the comment in one of the other tweets on that page
<diddledan> bt have replied as of 14 mintues ago disclaiming it
<jussi> diddledan: hrm
<diddledan> "parental controls are not on as default and any site can be added to the 'allowed list' by the account holder"
<bashrc> I'm a BT user and I don't have trouble with freenode.  Or at least not recently
<jussi> on wikipedia it claims to be rusks. but...
<Myrtti> jussi: finncrisp? yes.
<jussi> Myrtti: really? wow.
<Myrtti> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=254926506
<jussi> wow. I am somewhat amazed
<bashrc> is this something added by BT very recently - like in the last few days?
 * jussi nibbles on a garlic flavoured one...
<foobarry> when will it ever stop raining?
<DJones> I can't get to freenode.net at all from a BT connection
<MooDoo> I watched an interview with kim.com last night, seems such an interesting bloke
<jussi> foobarry: you live in the uk....
<DJones> I just get "This page can't be displayed" using both IE & Chrome, no warning about it being a blocked site
<Myrtti> jussi: http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/Shopping/FindProducts.aspx?Query=finn+crisp&Store=Waitrose
<jussi> I was under the impression it never stops raining, it just gets a little less...
<foobarry> since october, it hasn't stopped
<bashrc> I'll have to try later when I get back home.  Not on a BT connection currently
<ali1234> real ISPs remain unaffected
<directhex> rain has stopped here. blue skies, sun shining
<directhex> windy
<Laney> yeah, it's quite nice here
<foobarry> bah
<MooDoo> oooo sun
<jussi> pure greyness here
<foobarry> actualyli have a doc written in century gothic here, which is akin to comic sans
<bashrc> internet censorship seems to be getting out of hand.  I mean what does freenode have to do with terrorism?
<popey> who said terrorism?
<bashrc> also just blocking all of freenode seems stupid
<popey> It's all about the children.
<bashrc> so ubuntu-uk is too scary for children?
<MartijnVdS> because ISPs always know better than parents
<jussi> "just think of the children"?
<popey> s/ubuntu-uk/chat/
<foobarry> "nobody under 30 uses irc "
<foobarry> :P
<popey> i suspect that many chat systems are blocked
<bashrc> it really is becoming a nanny state
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: only now?
<foobarry> it is a democracy, we could always vote for the other nanny party
<bashrc> hah, maybe it's just the latest development in a longer trend
<MooDoo> don't forget it's opt out, so not really a problem is it?
<MartijnVdS> you could always start your own non-nanny party 8-)
<bashrc> opt out means people are never likely to encounter certain parts of the internet
<foobarry> they tend to have unpalatable views
<Myrtti> bt isn't blocking freenode
<jussi> MartijnVdS: then they would make a law about that...
<Myrtti> they're just slow
<Myrtti> it's not malicious or intentional
<bashrc> it would seem to me that freenode is entirely legitimate
<popey> Myrtti: dns update or something?
<Myrtti> something like that
<foobarry> maybe they should block the web
<foobarry> there's bad things on the web
<Myrtti> and yes, I'm intentionally being vague
<shauno> they're trying :/
<bashrc> ban cars.  they're dangerous
<bashrc> it's getting like China
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> not quite
<shauno> it's closer to 'quite' than 'not quite'; just blocking different topics.  for now.
<foobarry> are we just talking about GFoC for now
<foobarry> rather than their human rights issues
<foobarry> freedom of expression and worship is still allowed in UK for now
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<shauno> curious, is it still freedom of expression if they can block it?
<foobarry> you can still walk down the street dressed like an eejit though
<MooDoo> brobostigon: mornign
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<Myrtti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
<supergerbil> no, I am able to connect to freenode via my home server, although this doesn't use the standard DNS settings
<MooDoo> nothing is blocked if you opt out right?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bashrc> I havn't opted in or out of anything as far as I know
<foobarry> MooDoo: except you are on "a list" :0
<diddledan> foobarry: MooDoo: it's the "perverts list"
<foobarry> yep
<bashrc> really?  That's news to me
<diddledan> i.e. I click a button to tell the governement that I'm a pervert
<MooDoo> lol if you've got nothing to hide then there isn't a problem is there
<foobarry> even if you want to use an alterantive blocking service
<foobarry> blocking service is useful to me, if i can control it
<diddledan> tisn't useful for me. at all
<bashrc> I agree that a blocking service would be useful if it was under the control of the user, not a secret list made up by someone in a government department
<foobarry> opendns seems to work ok
<diddledan> the only blocking systems that are at all relevant to me are those that block virus c&c servers
<foobarry> i turned up the nudity filter pretty high, only once fell foul as i clicked on a story in teh sun
<foobarry> wanted to test how it worked in normal usage having the setings set to strict
<davmor2> Morning MooDoo how's life up Norff
<foobarry> i think it banned lingerie etc too
<diddledan> WHAT? no lingerie?!
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah pretty cool thanks :) what about you, getting ready for all the fun with the LTS release in april?
<diddledan> that's far too strict :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but the CHILDREN
<davmor2> MooDoo: I haven't got time to think that far ahead
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: they're not allowed to wear lingerie?
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol get your people to do it while you drink tea :D
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: ...
<diddledan> better parenting trumps any form of blocklist
<foobarry> both is helpful
<foobarry> IMHO
<MooDoo> diddledan: my son is just getting to that age where curiosity is getting the better of him with youtube, so we're starting to have to watch him a little closer lol
<diddledan> yeah I can appreciate that a block list will aid in parenting decisions, but I don't like that it's default-on
<SuperMatt> I've just discovered you can get firefox plugins to re-enable the blink tag
<foobarry> the annoying thing with youtube settings in if you chose safe mode, you can't see comments without clicking off the video onto another screen
<SuperMatt> my life is complete
<diddledan> SuperMatt: myspace ftw
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you quit now?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: geocities!
<diddledan> SuperMatt: even better, geocities ftw
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: beat me!
<SuperMatt> I miss geocities
<foobarry> MooDoo: agree, when we were young, we didn't have the possibilty of pr0n being just  2 clicks away
<diddledan> foobarry: it was too slow to be a click away :-p
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you'd just find it on walks in the woods?
<SuperMatt> http://themarqueeblink.com/ <- yes!
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: i found a massive stash in the woods once
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<foobarry> 100s of mags
<MooDoo> foobarry: it's not pr0n, he's 5 and I caught it watching some video where people thought it would be a good idea to hit each other in the bit with a baseball bat to see how much it hurt, he was in histerics :D but we thought it's not suitable
<shauno> MartijnVdS: oddly, that seems to be a very common story.  never understood that one
<foobarry> threw it in the river then told my mates who almost beat me up
<foobarry> MooDoo: tom and jerry?
<MooDoo> foobarry: no more like dirty sanchez or something like that :d
<foobarry> there's a difference between going to look for something wilfully and getting tempted to click on stuff thats in the sidebar
<MooDoo> he's 5 he's curious lol
<shauno> so, odd situation.  I'm stuck in my hotel room because they're trying to close the hotel, but I don't particularly want to be out on the street ahead of an 11pm flight
<foobarry> which town?
<shauno> bratislava
<shauno> I'm suspecting they've just lost their franchise, because they're censoring the signage with bedsheets?
<foobarry> oh, close the hotel down?
<foobarry> woops
<foobarry> don't you have to checkout at 9am or something?
<shauno> nah, I paid though till tomorrow for just this reason
<foobarry> i hate foreign travel
<shauno> usually I love travelling.  but less fun when things start going wrong, delivered in just enough broken english that you're not entirely sure *what* went wrong
<brobostigon> whats a good prgram, to create a google map type map, of a MC world?
<DJones> brobostigon: The servers I play on use gmap
<brobostigon> DJones: ok, let me look that up, thank you.
<DJones> I think its called minecraft overviewer
<shauno> I'm using overviewer.org (they have a deb/buntu repo)
<DJones> That looks like the same one
<brobostigon> ok, let me try that one, looks simple enough.
<foobarry> how can i set my default font type and size for a document in LO write?
<foobarry> keeps defaulting to times roman or 12pt font
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that's because your template/style is set to that
<foobarry> when i start a new para
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you need to edit the style
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: in the "styles" dropdown (standard, heading 1, etc.) click "More" then right-click the one you want to change
<foobarry> ah, some is default style and some are "text body"
<foobarry> thanks
<foobarry> should the headband of a pair of headphone sit onthe highest point of the head, or in front of it, or behind? can't find the comfy spot
<popey> i went to the loo with my bluetooth headphones on the other day, looked down, nearly dropped them in the loo
<popey> close shave
<shauno> I find mine funny when I misplace my phone.  walking around the house listening to "connected .. didoo .. connected .."
<directhex> arsen_, remember your enduring immortality on bash.org?
<MooDoo> http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/intel-edison/ :D
<Laney> In an openvpn config file, how do I specify to not accept the pushed DNS server?
<Laney> I just noticed that all of my DNS is going over the tunnel which scares me
<bigcalm> I get that when I have to use a client's VPN. So I only use the VPN when I really have to
<bigcalm> Most annoying, and slow
<Laney> I'd like to auto connect
<Laney> actually, since resources on this VPN have their own TLD, I'd like to have split DNS
<Laney> but that seems like it would be faff
<Laney> oho, looks like dnsmasq can do that
<jussi> eboooks from amazon are expensive. which sucks.
<MartijnVdS> jussi: they have discounts often, it's like steam game buying
<MartijnVdS> jussi: just wait for the right time
<DJones> jussi: http://www.freebooksifter.com/
<jussi> yeah, but the ones I want are rarely available on discount, at least in my experience
<foobarry> market is flooded with smutty romance novels
<jussi> like: http://www.amazon.com/The-Longest-Day-Classic-D-Day-ebook/dp/B000SEIXZW - I would actually like to read that...
<DJones> jussi: Generally out of copyright/1st books but occasionally some decent ones (not often)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: isn't that out of copyright yet?
<foobarry> also amazon tend to reduce to 99p some books instead of making them free
<jussi> MartijnVdS: no idea.
<brobostigon> jabber.taylorworld.me.uk/mcmap/ i have it working, :)
<foobarry> even out of copyright books are 69p on amazon
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: so you download them from Gutenberg
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> although the formatting is often sucky on both amazon and gutenberg
<MartijnVdS> google books also has a good selection of out-of-Â© books
<foobarry> still haven't found a way to buy magazines digitally while getting to keep the magazine
<Wobbo> Hey
<Wobbo> Any idea why Wine, Wine config even, stuck at 13.10? With all my other Ubuntu, I have no other (also 13.10), do not have this problem.
<popey> eh?
<Wobbo> So, Wine does not work.
<diddledan> eh?
<jussi> I still cant understand how a kindle edition can be more expensive than a brand new paperback...
<foobarry> lack of solidarity among buyers
<ali1234> perhaps it's because paperbacks come out much later?
<ali1234> how does ebook pricing compare to hardbacks?
<DJones> In the UK, ebooks can be more expensive because the retailer has to charge VAT on the electronic version, but don't on a paper copy of the same book
<bigcalm> Background just changed to this and I really want to play it! http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1258456
<foobarry> the ebook reflects the price of the hardback if no paperback is out yet (ripoff britain)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: not entirely dissimilar: http://www.ghostcontrol.biz/
<marxjohnson> I reinstalled a family friend's 7-year old Vista PC with 12.04 LTS after a good hoovering out. Saw her for the first time since today. She said "It's a lot faster, and really clear and simple" \o/
<marxjohnson> She also said "I really like the little rubbish bin. What should I put in it?" :)
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> aww :)
<diddledan> lol @ rubbish bin
<popey> "Embarrasing photos of me when I was little" is the correct answer
<marxjohnson> not that old a friend :)
<MartijnVdS> "Embarrasing photos of yourself when you were little" then?
<foobarry> we've all got embarrassing photos of popey when he was little in ours
<popey> â»
<ali1234> i set my dad up with unity
<MartijnVdS> I set up my grandmother with 12.04
<foobarry> http://www.idontwannagrowup.com/1055/baby-pictures/funny-cute-18-adorable-baby-elvis-faces/
<ali1234> he grumbled about the buttons being on the left and not being able to find menus
<foobarry> these are hideous
<Laney> haha
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: your dad already knew Windows then
<ali1234> yeah of course he did. everyone over the age of 20 does
<Laney> I set my mum up with Ubuntu phone... she complained about Mir vs. Wayland and CLAs
<dwatkins> My dad doesn't want anything but XP.
<popey> hahaha
<foobarry> i understand dwatkins
<popey> my mum didnt
<foobarry> i felt the same about gnome2
<popey> she hadn't used a computer at all before ubuntu
<Laney> did she throw it in your face and say "THIS ISN'T ARCH"
<popey> never used windows
<dwatkins> He's got a whole list of applications he uses, including Eudora for mail (which is ancient), and knows where to find things like the options, has files in certain formats (years worth of mail etc.) so is unlikely to want to switch to anything but possibly Windows 7.
<Laney> eudora :D
<foobarry> think you need to set up 2 machines side by side
<Laney> that's in my mind bucket alongside trumpet winsock
<foobarry> one mega fast and slick
<MartijnVdS> Pegasus?
<popey> Pegasus mail! OMG
<popey> That ones in the vault alongside Lotus CC:Mail
<foobarry> netscape communicator
<foobarry> on solaris
<foobarry> \o/
<dwatkins> popey: we still get calls from customers using Lotus notes.
<ali1234> he's happy anyway because i spec'd the PC to be really fast. it boots in about 5 seconds and everything loads up instantly. his old XP computer took about 5 minutes to boot up.
<foobarry> lotus notes != email client, although people try to use it as that
<Laney> and agent news reader
<popey> My mum called me today with a support question
<popey> for some reason her pc was at the grub menu
<ali1234> as long as it is fast, normal people don't care about the UI
<Laney> wow, that still exists
<popey> I think she may have leaned on the keyboard at boot
<dwatkins> at least that was just a case of rebooting
<popey> I said "press enter" and she said "the mouse doens't work", "No, Enter, on the keyboard"
<popey> "Oh, its working now"
<ali1234> "where is the any key?"
<popey> thats the first support question for a month or so
<popey> last time was that she had zoomed the browser in and couldn't see all of a photo attached to an email
<popey> "scroll right"
<popey> "Oh! There's the baby!"
<popey> Not an expert user.
<MartijnVdS> apparently, Pegasus is *still* being developed
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: mail client?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<foobarry> maybe chromebooks are good for basic users
<foobarry> although not many with larger screens
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: not used that in years :D
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: they are, yes. If they don't need "real" office suites etc.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I last used it in 98
<ali1234> does anyone know how to set firefox zoom back to default for all webpages?
<popey> good question
<ali1234> he doesn't need to zoom any more because he's got a 24" monitor now
<foobarry> ali1234: new user profile?
<foobarry> always good to clear it out 1x per year
<ali1234> apparently he learned how to zoom but then forgot because now he doesn't know how to fix it when he goes to a webpage and it's huge
<ali1234> i have had the same firefox profile for like 8 years
<foobarry> they get full of cruft
<ali1234> i don't keep my homedir, i just copy ~/.mozilla and ~/.ssh
<popey> they do?
<foobarry> yes, there's dbs that grow huge
<popey> oh, thats easily fixed
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: there's an extension, "nosquint" which can do that apparently
<foobarry> and other such problems
 * popey hugs chromium
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't want to change the defaults - i just want firefox to forget the custom zoom level it already has for all sites
<foobarry> running a dept with ~150 rolling users on firefox on automounted on NFS tends to find a few issues over time
<foobarry> mostly related to adobe plugins :S
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: have you tried with that extension?
<ali1234> no, because the description of it doesn't match with what i want to do
<foobarry> gmail chat just fell over
<marxjohnson> ali1234: For clearing Firefox zoom, Ctrl-0
<MartijnVdS> http://en.kioskea.net/faq/14647-firefox-set-a-default-zoom-level-for-all-websites
<MartijnVdS> marxjohnson: that's just for a sginle site/domain
<ali1234> marxjohnson: yes i know. i want to do it for all sites
<ali1234> without having to go to each site and press ctrl-0
<marxjohnson> MartijnVdS: ORLY? I didn't realise it did it per-domain
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^ that config option disables per-domain zoom levels
<ali1234> right but i don't want to disable it, i just want to forget all the current settings
<ali1234> i guess i'll go ask on a firefox channel or something
<foobarry> its good to have another firefox profile just for quidco ;)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe it forgets when you disable, fiddle zoom level then re-enable?
<ali1234> maybe
<popey> oooh http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/
<foobarry> non removable battery :(
<Laney> 15 months
<foobarry> how can they say stunning display when its 900 on vertical
<popey> Laney: until laptop refresh?
<Laney> ja
<popey> â»
<popey> 10
<Laney> this one has been going since early 2010
<Laney> quite good really
<popey> wossat?
<Laney> macbook pro
<directhex> my desktop pc is old :(
<MooDoo> desktop pc ... luxury ;)
<SuperMatt> I've had my desktop PC for about 15 years now
<SuperMatt> I realised not so long ago that there hasn't been a single stage in my PC's history where a componant hasn't been carried forward from a previous configureation
<SuperMatt> apparently that's called "ship of theseus," "theseus's paradox" or "trigger's broom"
<dwatkins> not a trojan part?
<directhex> ok, yes, it's been upgraded since first build
<directhex> but it's still the same cpu/mobo
<marxjohnson> I always understood "Trigger's brrom" to be where no part of the original is in the current incarnation
<dwatkins> It sounds like a euphamism.
<marxjohnson> broom*
<dwatkins> ...or a star cluster
<SuperMatt> marxjohnson: indeed. In talking about my computer, there really is zero part of the original for 15 years ago, but to me it's the same one because at each upgrade *something* has stayed the same
<dwatkins> evolution at work
<MartijnVdS> evolution doesn't quite work like that
 * dwatkins was just being silly
<SuperMatt> it's a problem with us humans applying permanence to something which we have named
<dwatkins> I call my computer ubuntu-pc
<SuperMatt> by naming the computer "my computer" and replacing all the parts, bit by bit, and computer with all the original parts could only be called "the other computer"
<dwatkins> Occasionally it morphs into windows8-pc
<dwatkins> ...but only temporarily
<TheOpenSourcerer> is brobostigon here?
<brobostigon> yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah cool.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy new year.
<brobostigon> happy new year
<TheOpenSourcerer> I might be meeting a prospect in Banbury tomorrow for a quick meeting/snack lunch. Need somewhere with decent wifi. Any recommendation?
<brobostigon> what kind of place are you looking for? food/beer wise?
<TheOpenSourcerer> quietish won't be drinking as will be driving. Somewhere to have a business meeting, laptops and a sarny really.
<brobostigon> white horse will probably fit the bill,
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. Looking at their website now. Cheers brobostigon
<brobostigon> youre welcome TheOpenSourcerer
<foobarry> 10.99 for a 256 page paperback? you kidding me amazon?
<dwatkins> demand the kindle version
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it'll be 11.49
<MartijnVdS> welcome to Kindle-land
<foobarry> kindle version Â£4.72
<foobarry> but ebay versions in paperback Â£2.50 delivered.
<foobarry> i wasnt a kindle version for the ebay price
<foobarry> :(
<diplo> I'd buy the ebay paperback and grab the kindle version from another source
<SuperMatt> I don't understand why kindle prices are more expensive
<dwatkins> it's all those electrons they kill making the book
<DJones> foobarry: How much is an electronic copy on the kobo/google play websites
<diplo> I'd rather buy direct from the author at lower prices
<foobarry> probably the same, although i'm avoiding kobo after what happened last time
<foobarry> google play Â£4.72..
<foobarry> coincidence?
<foobarry> shame you can't buy 2nd hand ebook eh?
 * foobarry tries the library...
<foobarry> 10 copies...not in my borough
<popey> diplo: might be better to contact the author and find out where they get the best mark-up
<dwatkins> indeed, foobarry - that's a great shame, you can lend them, but only in certain situations or something
<diplo> Yeah going to try that, I like Goodreads as quite a few authors actually talk back on there
<foobarry> diplo: you mean TPB
<foobarry> or i could rip every page out of the book and scan as a pdf
<foobarry> is it still illegal to download an ebook of something you actually own? i guess so
<diplo> foobarry: More than likely yes
<diplo> About illegal
<diddledan> are you allowed to make a backup copy of your physical-book in case of fire or theft?
<foobarry> illegal but maybe ethical
<diplo> Well the first thing I do if I buy an ebook is run it through Calibre and remove any restrictions so Amazon and anyone else can't remove it.
<diddledan> most DVDs used to say you're allowed to make a single backup
<diplo> But tbh, I've never used wireless on my kindle so not sure they could connect
<diddledan> so I'm assuming papery-books are the same ;-)
<foobarry> my books are in the loft going mouldy
<diplo> heh mine are in the loft as well foobarry, 100's of them
<foobarry> not getting read, but if they were ebooks they would be
<foobarry> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04FOB-ethicist-t.html?_r=0
<diplo> Oh, I've read all mine that are up there
<foobarry> if i buy a 2nd hand book, the author doesn't get paid either
<MartijnVdS> yeah I've switched to e-books almost entirely
<diplo> I had, but my mum bought me 6 paperbacks for Xmas, so more to add to the loft once read
<foobarry> considering they only just changed the cd/tape format shifting law...
<foobarry> i think that allow 1 personal copy now dunnit?
<MartijnVdS> Come to the Netherlands, we allow any number of personal copies ("reasonable" is the limit)
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<foobarry> It has previously been illegal in the UK to rip songs from a CD to a digital player or transfer eBooks, music, films and games from one device to another
<foobarry> so we can rip CDs, can we rip books?
<bashrc> rip all the things
<foobarry> i ripped a book, now i need sellotape
<MartijnVdS> Chello-tape
<popey> it still is illegal to rip cds
<foobarry> popey: no that changed
<popey> the law hasn't changed in that regard, it was to be reviewed though
<popey> [citation needed]
 * MartijnVdS gives popey a citation for ripping CDs
<diddledan> ergh @ wikipedia cite all the things
<foobarry> "is to be made legal for the first time under government plans."
<foobarry> dec 2012
<foobarry> argh, aint they dunnit yet?
<popey> indeed
<diplo> http://www.zdnet.com/uk/cd-ripping-to-be-permitted-following-uk-copyright-reform-7000009127/
<diplo> Being made legal in 2013
<foobarry> how old is dr who?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: 50 years + 1 month
<foobarry> Broadcasts and cable programmes
<foobarry> 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the broadcast
<foobarry> was made
<foobarry> so soon to enter public domain
<diddledan> foobarry: over 900 at last count
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: IT'S OVER 900!!!!11
<MartijnVdS> wait..
<diplo> Ah ok so it is legal to rip a CD, it is still illegal to remore copy right protection
<diplo> :)
<popey> no
<popey> it is still illegal to rip a cd
<popey> not that anyone takes any notice
<diplo> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a446817/uk-law-change-permits-cd-ripping.html
<diplo> However, it remains illegal to remove the technical protection method (TPM) from any copyrighted content, so a barrier remains in place where a wealth of content is concerned.
<diplo> Read more: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tech/news/a446817/uk-law-change-permits-cd-ripping.html#ixzz2pj3m6MYh
<diplo> Follow us: @digitalspy on Twitter | digitalspyuk on Facebook
<popey> haha
<diplo> bah that pasted wrong, sorry
<popey> its a report
<popey> where's the law change
<diddledan> I don't get the "illegal to remove drm" bits. mostly because in order for anything to be useful the drm needs to be decrypted so there's at least one partial copy of unencrypted data somewhere which can arguably be termed as having had it's drm removed
<MartijnVdS> diplo: look up the "DCP" flag that's part of a CD TOC :)
<foobarry> kindle books are decrypted every time i read them
<popey> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/consumers-given-more-copyright-freedom
<MartijnVdS> diplo: "Digital Copy Permitted" 8-)
<popey> "In response to a consultation earlier this year, the Government will make changes to"
<popey> *will*
<popey> not "has"
<popey> be nice to get a proper legal doc
<popey> then get wikipedia fixed â»
<Laney> that was 2012
<Laney> hopefully moved on in the year since then ...
<diddledan> at what point does "playing back" or "reading" become "removing copy protection"?
<diddledan> e.g. libdvdcss
<diddledan> it allows me to play back but the law suggests it's illegal
<diddledan> so why is playing back using libdvdcss illegal yet using the same functionality in fluendo media player perfectly fine?!
<davmor2> diddledan: Because Fluendo has paid for a license in order to be able to playback with a protected dvd
<davmor2> diddledan: that's why the dvd player from fluendo isn't never going to be free
<diddledan> I tend to sit on the fence with DRM - I understand the want of media producers to protect their revenue stream but I also wholeheartedly agree that DRM is more appropriately termed "digital restrictions management"
<diddledan> and all the guff that goes along with that agreement
<diplo> Someone try http://217.34.88.38 for me and let me know what happens ?
<marxjohnson> diplo: If this is meatspin...
<marxjohnson> diplo: 403
<diplo> With a bt redirect ?
<MartijnVdS> HTTP/1.1 307 Temporary Redirect
<MartijnVdS> diplo: to http://redirect.svc.networks.btretail.net/webredirect/?ip=83.163.161.70&url=http://217.34.88.38/
<marxjohnson> ah yes
<marxjohnson> as MartijnVdS says
<DJones> diplo: I get the same from a BT connection
<diplo> That's a Draytek router, https works.. so not sure why that is happening ? Only thing I can think is BT blocking use of 80 on the IP and redirecting
<diplo> Can't find anything google related
<foobarry> https://kindle.amazon.com/most_popular
<foobarry> i wonder if hunger games was used as a school text or something
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: probably, but it's also *very* popular (new film just came out too for part 2 (Catching Fire))
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I read it last year
<foobarry> but as most highlighted? its not exactly profound
<SuperMatt> I don't think it would have been used by schools
<foobarry> american schools?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: if a book is popular, more people read it, so more people highlight bits
<SuperMatt> they haven't been out long enough to have been fully studied for use in a curriculum
<SuperMatt> and people would be too tempted to see the films and "cheat"
<SuperMatt> but they are very good books
<foobarry> its nice to look back on my own highlights
<foobarry> The Treaty of Versailles, as well as causing deep resentment in Germany, satisfied none of the Allies. The British, who wanted to see Germany punished but not destroyed, felt the treaty too harsh. The French ? having borne the brunt of the conflict ? were determined to see Germany destroyed and thought it too weak.
<foobarry> "And of course, what this Italian chap had done was just to sit with his finger on ?L?, smoking a fag, the biggest crib there ever was. ?A message that long that contained only ?L?s! That actually broke one of the wheels of the Italian Enigma machine"
<foobarry> i love that story about the lazy italian
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: LLLLLL
<foobarry> and turing, in true aspie style: "when after several years of anxiety, the prospect of a Nazi invasion of Britain had receded, he began to absent himself from parades. The authorities were irritated by Turing?s apparently casual approach, insisting that since he had signed up for Home Guard duties, he was under military law. Turing calmly pointed out to the furious officers in question that he was no such thing, and that he had stated as mu
<MartijnVdS>  as mu..[chopped line]
<SuperMatt> that sounds like cryptonomicon
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: it's not
<SuperMatt> booo
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: though that also deals with Turing :)
<foobarry>  on the form that he had signed. One of the questions on the form was Do you understand that by enrolling in the Home Guard, you place yourself liable to military law?? Turing had written his answer: ?No?. Naturally, no one had noticed."
<SuperMatt> ugg, I'm tempted to write in all my documentation that I need to hand over "just figure it all out yourself, that's what I did"
<foobarry> SuperMatt: the book was "The Secret Life of Bletchley Park: The WWII Codebreaking Centre and the Men and Women Who Worked There by Sinclair McKay"
<SuperMatt> oh cool
<SuperMatt> I might check that out
<foobarry> more of an easy read as it focused on the lives
<SuperMatt> I'm going to have a lot of spare time now that my commute will be doubling
<foobarry> an interesting book
<SuperMatt> awesome
<Azelphur> Don't you just love it when ISPs oversell to ridiculous levels, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-07-154238_1387x897_scrot.png
<Azelphur> This is 80mbit fibre -.-
<dwatkins> only 80 MBit?
<Azelphur> yup
<dwatkins> also, contention
<foobarry> one thing about kindle is that it must have killed off teh large print section of the library
<SuperMatt> that's an insane oversell
<dwatkins> foobarry: not necessarily - see "iPad"
<foobarry> when i worked in the library, a massive section had to be set aside for large print versinos of books
<Azelphur> they even told me the node is overloaded, it literally is an oversell
<dwatkins> i.e. stuff isn't being killed-off, it's transitioning.
<SuperMatt> I would have thought it would be illegal to oversell a service
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I like to run "mtr" in these situations to see where the packet loss occurs.
<Azelphur> Nothing wrong with the actual connection, during the small hours I get like 60mbit
<dwatkins> probably too many people on your segment
<SuperMatt> mtr is my favourite tool
<foobarry> VM used to kill me in the first hop
<foobarry> packet loss of 30%
<Azelphur> yea, they say they are going to review if it needs an upgrade within the month
<SuperMatt> Azelphur: I won't be surprised if that review fails to happen
<Azelphur> and yea I make extensive use of mtr myself, not a huge amount to see though, no packet loss, decent latency, just no throughput
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: I'm gonna call them today with that speedtest and ask for a refund to go buy a 3g dongle since it's well below the 16mbit
<Azelphur> and I'll continue to do that until they fix it
<SuperMatt> good luck
<Azelphur> ty
<SuperMatt> I'm sure many people will attest to BTs brilliant responsibility shirking powers
<Azelphur> indeed
 * diplo used to have to deal with them with 90+ sites for BB and 80+ sites with phones, it was a royal PITA!
<diplo> in the end I got an external company to look after it, much easier!
<SuperMatt> diplo: just moving the pain around ;)
<Azelphur> BT are competent people that totally don't have debugging turned on in production, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-07-155350_1387x897_scrot.png
 * Azelphur sighs
<bigcalm> Right. I'm doing battle with 3 RHEL servers. Where would I find crontabs either system based or those set by users?
<SuperMatt> /var/spool/cron
<bigcalm> Ah, /etc/cron.* are all there as expected
<bigcalm> spool, that's it, ta SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> :)
<SuperMatt> it seems a bit weird that spool is still used
<bigcalm> Humm, no cronjobs for any users. This is confusing
<SuperMatt> what's happening?
<diplo> So my BT issue, "It's an issue with your router" for hours
<diplo> Was a problem with billing on their account
<SuperMatt>  -.-
<diplo> lifted that, it worked, and yet their "coach" was still adamant it was a router issue!
<diplo> I in the most polite way I could said, you're stupid and left the call at that.
<diplo> Fixed it right on time! SuperMatt started the new job yet ?
<SuperMatt> starting on the 20th :)
<diplo> And I still haven't got a good reason why their security question is 'Whats your mothers maiden name' on a business account
<diplo> Ah, not long now!
<SuperMatt> indeed
<diplo> Right, sort my stuff out and get outta here
<SuperMatt> if Adobe has taught us anything, security questions are something we shouldn't be relying on
<SuperMatt> the problem with all security stuff is that as soon as one thing is compromised, you have to assume it's all compromised
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: a system I used to work on used crontab jobs. We've recently been given the project back after it went in-house for a while. I now can't find/remember those crontab jobs. I wonder if they removed the need for them
<SuperMatt> oh, I see
<SuperMatt> well I can't help you there
<SuperMatt> try as I might
<bigcalm> ;)
<diddledan> bigcalm: maybe they outsourced the crontab? :-p
<diddledan> I mean, why use an inbuilt cron functionality when you can pay for a service
<SuperMatt> of course!
<SuperMatt> outsource all the things!
 * bigcalm nibbles his custard cream and ponders
<diddledan> SuperMatt: exactly!
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: I prefer bourbons
<SuperMatt> so, to me, you are the enemy
<bigcalm> Good job I'm not giving you any biscuits then!
<SuperMatt> This means war!
<bashrc> it doesn't make much sense to outsource something which you could put in cron
<SuperMatt> the google term "bourbons vs custard creams" does not yeild any witty urls on the matter. I think it's time to write an app which logs "likes" of each type and has a running tally. People can like multiple times to show their love for each biscuit
<diddledan> SuperMatt: make it so!
<diddledan> such a weird phrase
<bigcalm> This is why we still have no cure for cancer :P
<diddledan> I think the crux is biscuits are the reason
<diddledan> for everything
<SuperMatt> I might wait till I start the new job before doing this
<SuperMatt> after all, I'm going to get cheap hosting and I don't want to move more stuff across to the new host than I really need to
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: was it you who got a job with Rackspace?
<diddledan> oh the joys of mobile internet
<Azelphur> diddledan: oh the joys of 80mbit fibre http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214612446 xD
<diddledan> my 40Mbit fibre is knackered
<diddledan> hence the mobile
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> I hear anything enta.net running through kingston is fairly fucked atm -.-
 * AlanBell raises an eybrow at Azelphur's lack of imaginative expletives
<Azelphur> sorry, family friendly...no bad words.
<directhex> YMMV. http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214631667
<Laney> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3214645447
<Laney> not massively fair as the server is hosted by my ISP in the same city ...
<MartijnVdS> only 11 up? :)
<MartijnVdS> though downstream is nice :)
<Azelphur> directhex: blimey, that's nice
<directhex> Azelphur, considering the telephone cable isn't even attached to the wall properly, it's just sorta dangling off the side of the house
<Azelphur> haha
<Laney> MartijnVdS: yeah, that's what you get with cable here really
 * MartijnVdS is still waiting for the 500/500 upgrade
<Laney> I wonder how much upstream I use just by downloading at 120
<PaulW2U> ctrl-M /input return
<Seeker`> Laney: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3214695598.png
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: DC?
<Seeker`> MartijnVdS: work internets
<popey> czajkowski: http://imgur.com/gallery/N9wEYP7
<diddledan> time to stop working
<diddledan> I work too hard
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: sure you're not still getting warmed up post hols? :D
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: yeah, it was me
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2103217949/porta-pi-arcade-a-diy-mini-arcade-cabinet-for-rasp
<popey> want
<Azelphur> haha, nice
<ali1234> is that spritetm's one?
<ali1234> http://spritesmods.com/?art=rpi_arcade&page=3
<ali1234> looks very similar... hmm
<ali1234> hmm... it's not an exact copy, so i guess i'll allow it
<ali1234> ah this new one is quite a bit bigger too
<ali1234> you could probably retrofit a raspi and screen into a classic gameboy case
<ali1234> in fact i bet someone already did it
<ali1234> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=35260137 yup
<diddledan> riotous ringworm is EOL as of the 27th?!
<diddledan> short cycles ftl
<diddledan> IMO you should have reasonable cycles or no cycles/rolling release
<diddledan> "not pitifully short cycles"
<davmor2> diddledan: 9 month cycles for non lts seems reasonable, it means it is supported till half way through the next release
<ali1234> 9 months seems good to me
<ali1234> rolling just isn't an option with how unstable ubuntu is
<davmor2> diddledan: what you have to remember is if you have and 18 month release cycle plus 5 years on the desktop for lts at some point you will have 3 LTS and 3 interim releases to support something is going to snap, with a 9 month cycle you will only ever have one intrim and 3 LTS
<czajkowski> popey: awww
<foobarry> 9 month cycle does mean that somebody installing $current 1 month before the new release only gets 4 months support
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: and a notice to upgrade 1 month in
<foobarry> hence people instlaling lts or a beta instead
<MartijnVdS> good
<foobarry> i would consider sacking someone for installing fedora on a server
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but it doesn't matter if you install LTS or 13.10, yo'll get the upgrade notice once 14.04 is out
<foobarry> i've seen web servers running fedora 8 and older in this place
<foobarry> just think of all the security updates that have been missed because some numpty didn't use centos
<MartijnVdS> people who are so bad about maintaining their infrastructure deserve to get pwned
<foobarry> yes, and not promoted :-|
<foobarry> i joined my previous company and found a load of IIS servers that  had been pwned rotten
<foobarry> i said, why is IIS on this box? they didn't know. ftp and web set up as default
<foobarry> susceptible to the ../../../pwn.asp bugs etc
<foobarry> c'est la vie
<MartijnVdS> we just run the latest LTS
<MartijnVdS> new LTS? Time to deploy new machines
<MartijnVdS> but then, we just store everything "config"-related in Chef
<foobarry> when i supported desktops we had people who said "don't touch my machine until my phd is finished"
<zleap> i can understand that
<foobarry> hence SL with updates was basically install and forget. would be fine for 4 or 5 years
<zleap> only surely people would back up their work if they are doing a phd
<foobarry> NFS mounted home dirs
<MartijnVdS> zleap: I upgrade to Ubuntu alphas on my workstation. Even during high-priority projects. Get an LTS VM if you want stable ;)
<foobarry> but you ensured compatibility of python, c libs, etc ,etc all the way through your work
<foobarry> if their machine died, we could redeploy a SL4/5/6 box for them the same as before anyway
<foobarry> in 20 mins
<diddledan> SL?
<MartijnVdS> S.. S.. Suse?
<foobarry> scientific linux ~ centos
<diddledan> aah
<foobarry> need to install 282 updates on this 12.04LTS
<foobarry> woops 321
<directhex> rhel (a bad distro) minus the paid support (the only reason to run a bad distro)
<foobarry> disagree
<foobarry> good deployment architecture
<foobarry> good support from vendors e.g. use on HPC cluster
<foobarry> solid as a rock
<MartijnVdS> older than Debian Woody was when Sarge came out
<MartijnVdS> or was potato->woody the big gap?
<directhex> once purchased a cluster which shipped opensuse 10.1
<foobarry> depends what you are doing with it
<foobarry> rocks on suse
<directhex> with like 5 months of updates left when we bought it
<foobarry> rhel is bad when the updates run out
<foobarry> so i prefer centos for that reason
<popey> 20:40:55 < MartijnVdS> foobarry: but it doesn't matter if you install LTS or 13.10, yo'll get the upgrade notice once 14.04 is out
<popey> s/14.04/14.04.1/
<foobarry> when i think of servers i think of support across the whole lifetime of server, hence centos or LTS are only options for me
<dogmatic69_> could anyone recomend a good router to use with openWRT
<popey> netgear wndr3700 works well
<dogmatic69_> good being reasonably cheap with decent spec
<foobarry> there's a good site
<foobarry> didn't we talk before about it?
<dogmatic69_> popey: thanks, checking that out
<foobarry> found an awesome site with routers for 15 quid
<popey> mine has been on for months
<dogmatic69_> popey: like that its filed under 'high performance' :D
<popey> dual radios, 4 ports
<dogmatic69_> cool
<dogmatic69_> virgin media router is absolute rubbish
<dogmatic69_> worse than BT home hub 3
<dogmatic69_> cant even set a static internal IP
<dogmatic69_> makes ssh to other pc's a pain
<foobarry> can't remember the site i found before, but there's a recent dicsussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6828699
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: TP-Link for me :)
<popey> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-January/020100.html
<popey> centos joins red hat
<popey> dogmatic69_: yeah, i have two wndr3700's behind my virgin media box
<ali1234> well that's cool
<popey> yeah, good for centos, and their users
<diddledan> so, umm, centos is now an official redhat release?
<bigcalm> New humble bundle. Wonder if there's anything of interest this time
<popey> i only have one of them
<popey> (surgeon simulator)
<ali1234> oh cool i've been wanting that game for ages
<ali1234> "360 spoonflip"
<popey> interestingly the highest payer was "o/ HEIL HITLER o/" at $5000 which seems to be removed
<popey> and the average was $8.44 for some time, now it's down to ~$6
<bigcalm> I have none of those games and they all look playable :)
<popey> surgeon simulator is bonkers
 * bigcalm nabs
<directhex> tee hee http://www.razerzone.com/christine
<ali1234> lol "to the moon!"
<directhex> papo & yo is worth playing, imho
<popey> phoneblocks
<directhex> the gameplay is so-so, but it's got a great story to tell
<popey> but with PCs
<directhex> popey, phoneblocks with watercooling and ssds!
<ali1234> "frog-induced rage" sounds good.
<directhex> yeah, monster HATES frogs
 * bigcalm fires up his SteamOS machine
<bigcalm> Sadly it means removing the network and graphics cables from another machine. Hay ho
<bigcalm> I love the password entry system using my xbox controller
<bigcalm> Anybody else using an xbox controller with SteamOS? My controller is constantly flashing as though it's waiting to sync with the OS
<diddledan> again the average price is higher from linux users
<diddledan> I don't get why linux people are more willing to part with cash than "others"
<diddledan> or rather part with more cash
<bigcalm> Somebody suggested because we don't waste money buying an OS
<bigcalm> I think it's because we are more about sharing
<diddledan> I'm not sure the price of the platform is the differentiating factor
<popey> i think its more to do with sheer volume of windows users paying near-zero
<popey> dragging their average down
<diddledan> probably
<bigcalm> I've always paid the default of $25
<diddledan> bloomin' freeloaders :-p
<bigcalm> Papo & Yo and Reus aren't showing up in SteamOS for me :S
<ali1234> they often don't
<ali1234> just cos there is a linux port doesn't mean it's on steam
<ali1234> it took like a year for super meat boy to show up
<bigcalm> I redeemed the steam keys
<bigcalm> I guess
<ali1234> yeah... getting you the windows version and maybe mac
<ali1234> and linux version if they ever bother to put it up
<diddledan> the surgeon simulator videos remind me of being drunk
<diddledan> only with sharp objects involved
<bigcalm> Ah, the HB site says that Reus is still in beta for Mac and Linux
<ali1234> "to the moon" is a missing executable
<ali1234> ie they say it's available for linux but there's no package files at all
<popey> as always, i get a humble bundle promo email 10 mins after I buy it
<bigcalm> directhex: audio is muted by default. I had to go to the desktop to unmute. Is this your doing? ;)
<directhex> bigcalm, this is covered in my YT video
<bigcalm> Ah, I haven't watched that :)
<ali1234> you should make it set the volume to maximum. because trolling is funny
<dogmatic69_> popey: you still about? why you got 2 routers behind the VM?
<popey> dogmatic69_: because one wouldn't cover the whole house
<dogmatic69_> ah
<popey> they're at opposite corners of the building
<bigcalm> I'm going to have to put electrical tape over the xbox controller LEDs. Really bugging me
<dogmatic69_> popey: I see
<popey> one in my den 3 feet from me now, one in the bedroom, opposite corner
<dogmatic69_> popey: NETWNDR3700-100UKS is the same thing?
<ali1234> that just means version 1 UK firmware
<dogmatic69_> ah
<ali1234> version 1 being the hardware
<dogmatic69_> and I would be able to flash that without any problems
<popey> N600 WNDR3700v2
<popey> is the one I have
<ali1234> you need to check which version openwrt uses and the different versions are usually totally different
<popey> http://blog.josefsson.org/2011/05/22/openwrt-with-huawei-e367-and-tp-link-tl-wr1043nd/
<popey> thats the blog post I followed
<popey> some time ago
<popey>  ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT (bleeding edge, r27832) ----------
<popey> just ssh'ed in for the first time in maybe a year
<popey> Linux hawking 2.6.39.2 #1 Sat Jul 30 08:54:25 MST 2011 mips GNU/Linux
<bigcalm> Despite my SteamOS machine not being that bad, it's really sucking with the graphics. Wonder what's wrong
<bigcalm> I watched it install nvidia-current. So it really doesn't make sense
<Seeker`> mips \o/
<bigcalm> Is there no longer a link to the USC from HB?
<directhex> hasn't been for ages
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<popey> reus is nice
<ali1234> you don't want to install through USC anyway... not until click is sorted
<ali1234> all those PPAs make it sloooooooooooow
<bigcalm> Sleep now!
<daftykins> nn o/
<diddledan> o_O how can a used previous generation appletv cost nearly twice that of a brand new current generation?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-08
<diddledan> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-TV2-Untethered-Jailbroken-JUST-the-same-as-the-ones-being-sold-at-289-/111181670476?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Internet_TV_Media_Streamers&hash=item19e2f1a84c
<diddledan> a new current gen is at most 99Â£
<diddledan> some retailers have it at 79Â£
<diddledan> ok, now we're getting stupid: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-Apple-TV-2nd-Generation-XBMC-Tethered-/161174152942?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Internet_TV_Media_Streamers&hash=item2586ba66ee
<directhex> diddledan, i think the old ones are more moddable than the new ones?
<diddledan> does that really justify the price difference tho?
<diddledan> 99 new or used for 299
<directhex> one is an appletv. one is a box that can run xbmc
<diddledan> my rpi can run xbmc, and I didn't pay 299 for it
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah no jailbreak on the new
<daftykins> rpi is actually pretty rubbish with XBMC
<daftykins> can't handle high-end skins, local db = slow, hardware performance kinda demands use of a receiver (for bitstreamed audio) to keep up
<daftykins> at least from what i hear from being in the channels for XBMC :)
<BigRedS> yeah, it's like whenever else you preted the pi is a PC
<BigRedS> *pretend
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> just us again MartijnVdS  ;)
<MartijnVdS> "The morning shift"
<MooDoo> hehe
<mapps> im here
<mapps> il be signing off soon though. :)
<MooDoo> hello then :D
<mapps> yello!
<Myrtti> meh
<ali1234> who else got that "Need help to get a job" email?
<MooDoo> Can't say I did
<MooDoo> then again, I could of but just so used to deleting spam by skimming subjects I could of deleted it
<ali1234> looks like he sent it to everyone who's email appears in a git commit in linux
<ali1234> at least he used bcc
<MooDoo> yeah people would of gone nuts if he hadn't
<ali1234> it evaded gmail's spam filter... looks like a genuine misguided person
<MooDoo> Ah he'll learn when people reply with WTF dude! ;)
<MartijnVdS> nah people don't reply to spam.. do they?
<ali1234> well i don't
 * MartijnVdS fires up his VMs
<MooDoo> no i don't but you never know, people give out their password and click links in emails without thining
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: sure but *kernel devs*
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh they are the worst ;)
<maps> hmm gonna read up on BASH scripting today i think..anyone recommend any videos/tutorials besides tldp
<MooDoo> http://linuxconfig.org/bash-scripting-tutorial
<MooDoo> or from ubuntu https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/BashScripting
<dwatkins> maps: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/ and http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ are really useful, too
<MooDoo> besides tldp
<MooDoo> ;)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How are we all this not so wet morning
<dwatkins> glad it's not wet :)
<dwatkins> also, glad it's not cold like it appears to be in the US
<MooDoo> work collegue is in NYC at the moment, waiting to board the plane home....
<diplo> Not cancelled ?
<MooDoo> diplo: not at the moment.
<mapps> gah got cutoff
<mapps> dunno if my message sent -  hmm gonna read up on BASH scripting today i think..anyone recommend any videos/tutorials besides tldp
<MooDoo> mapps: I think just a generic google search will give you loads, they'll all help :D
<mapps> ya i know there's loads just wondered if any specific ones..but ok:)
<mapps> you know much bash scripting?
<MooDoo> enough to get me by but I'd have to read up again lol
<Myrtti> mapps: I started with O'Reilly pocket books, and followed up on tldp
<knightwise> morning everyone :)
<Myrtti> sed, grep and bash are good to read up on
<dwatkins> mapps: here's what we said: http://hastebin.com/kehafijasu.xml
<mapps> many thanks :)
<ali1234> they should have called this game "joe danger 2: the loading screen"
<ali1234> joystick doesn't work in runner2
<ali1234> anybody know why a joomla site would return 500 instead of 404?
<MooDoo> ali1234: what's in the logs?  script headers error?
<MartijnVdS> because the PHP config is b0rken
<ali1234> nothing
<foobarry> what's happened to slashdot? keep finding interesting stories on there now
<ali1234> as far as i can tell there are no logs
<ali1234> even the error goes to access.log instead of error.log
<ali1234> i didn't set up this site
<MooDoo> ali1234: i had this yesterday and it turned out to be a corrupt table joomla_session in the DB
<ali1234> hmm, thanks, i'll check that
<ali1234> it does only happen for 404 pages though
<MooDoo> ah
<MooDoo> maybe not then
<ali1234> this is causing company's google mini to think hat moved pages still exist
<ali1234> so their search is showing all bad old links
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> anyone read the news about redhat helping centos now?
<SuperMatt> yeah
<SuperMatt> quite interesting
<SuperMatt> I think basically they want to help the centos team releasae centos 7 before oracle get a chance
<foobarry> also, 80/20 rule. organisations using centos will probably have 20% on RHEL
<SuperMatt> indeed
<foobarry> we are discussing linux desktops and some people say that because we use RPM on server, we should use fedora on desktop :(
<SuperMatt> so it may also be a tactic to try to convince more people to buy support from rhel, rather than go to oracle
<SuperMatt> foobarry: that's not a terrible thing to say... it is quite logical
<foobarry> i dont know any self respecting linux admin who would willingly give business to oracle
<SuperMatt> but I think it should mostly come down to choice
<foobarry> except fedora sucks, and and they have no LTS
<foobarry> so you have to upgrade user desktops every 6 month...thats unthnkable
<SuperMatt> there has got to people some people giving business to oracle, otherwise there wouldn't be an oracle linux, right?
<bigcalm> What's the link to Oracle?
<foobarry> so you then have to provide a lts type solution which is centos on desktop
<SuperMatt> foobarry: a friend of mine is in that situation, so they only do every even numbered release
 * bigcalm hasn't been paying attention :)
<popey> oracle make a centos-like re-build of rhel
<popey> and steal rhels lunch
<foobarry> fedora support life is 9month
<popey> i dont think this is anything to do with that though#
<bashrc> nice
<bigcalm> Oh Oracle owns centos?
<popey> no
<popey> oracle make a linux distro
<popey> _like_ centos
<bigcalm> Doh, sorry
<popey> i.e. built from rhel
<popey> it's more to do with rhel having their cloud lunch eaten by ubuntu
<bigcalm> Hehe
<popey> centos gives them the ability to "sell" a low/no cost distro to the cloud vendors
<popey> and then upsell them to rhel
<MooDoo> centos is built on rhel source which is built on fedora source :)
<popey> no
<foobarry> if anything is gonna make RHEL types consider ubuntu, its cloud lunch
<popey> rhel is not built from fedora
<MooDoo> i retract that as it was wrong
<SuperMatt> but fedora is still, mostly, a testing ground for future rhel features
<MooDoo> that's what I actually meant :)
<popey> indeed
<bashrc> isn't there supposed to be some relationship between fedora and rhel though?
<foobarry> and fedora releases have "equivalence"
<popey> there is a relationship, of course
<foobarry> i.e. i equate fedora 13 with rhel 6.0
<bashrc> have they diverged a lot?
<JamesTai1> Good morning all! :-D
<foobarry> bashrc: well, the bugs from drivers in fedora 13 make it into rhel6
<SuperMatt> man, I think my rhcsa stops being valid this year :/
<foobarry> SuperMatt: me too :(
<SuperMatt> /o\
<foobarry> with the release of RHEL7
<foobarry> and i never took my vmware exam
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I was going to take it, but not going to now.
<SuperMatt> I don't think it's that, I think the certification only lasts a certain period of time
<foobarry> i still say i'm a RHCE
<SuperMatt> I seem to remember it saying 2014 on my certificate
<SuperMatt> I don't think you can when your certificate has run out
<SuperMatt> though I guess I could say "I was certified rhcsa between 2011 and 2014"
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you'll be taking redcent exam next or centhat or something similar ;)
<SuperMatt> well maybe
<SuperMatt> I hope not :/
<SuperMatt> I'm pretty certain I'm mostly going to be working on windows stuff
<foobarry> you can say RHCSA for RHELv6
<foobarry> or just say RHCSA cert number blah
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yeah me too, i'm doing my first mcp exam in feb
<foobarry> anyone bought humble bundle yet?
<foobarry> are there any good games in there?
<SuperMatt> not bought it yet
<foobarry> joe danger looks like it would be good fun on the wii
<SuperMatt> oooh, I just checked my certificate
<SuperMatt> it doesn't expire :D
<bigcalm> Ever?
<MartijnVdS> Bad CA ;)
<SuperMatt> oh wait
<SuperMatt> yes it does
<SuperMatt> mine expires on the 4th Feb this year :(
<SuperMatt> https://www.redhat.com/wapps/training/certification/verify.html?certNumber=110-003-845
<SuperMatt> that just makes me sad :(
<SuperMatt> You used to be able to "buy" a training course of shop.canonical.com. Why's that not happening any more?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: that ended years ago didn't it
<SuperMatt> yeah, I think so
<SuperMatt> I always thought it was a shame
<SuperMatt> because I wanted to do it
<foobarry> probably nobody else did
<SuperMatt> that's probably true
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: http://askubuntu.com/questions/166692/is-there-such-a-thing-as-a-ubuntu-certified-engineer
<SuperMatt> so in other words, there's really no way to get a certificate
<MooDoo> not on ubuntu specifically, might as well just to the LIPC
<MooDoo> LPIC
<SuperMatt> lpic?
<MooDoo> http://www.lpi.org/linux-certifications/programs/lpic-1
<popey> is that really worth doing?
<MooDoo> linux professional institute SuperMatt
<popey> experience > certificates IMO / IME
<SuperMatt> ah cool
<SuperMatt> sure, but certificates = cv booster
<MooDoo> popey: depends if companies need to see a proficiancy in linux, it's nice to have it on paper
<SuperMatt> especially because most recruitment places/hr departments don't know anything about linux, so they're just told to look out of things like rhcsa and lpic
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the last few companies I've worked for just asked my frieds who already worked there, or trusted me when I said I knew my stuff
 * awilkins is proud to have zero professional development certificates
<popey> I am not convinced they do look for that.
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah most people aren't that bothered
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: if you're lying, they'll discover that soon enough
<awilkins> I narrowly avoided getting some MCSEs and totally ruining my rep
<SuperMatt> hahahaha
<popey> i used to be a sap certified person
<foobarry> rhce/rhcsa is an advantage for cndaditates when i'm hiring
<MooDoo> awilkins: now you're just being silly :D
<popey> many moons ago
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: your 'geek cred'
<awilkins> My old employer wanted me to get some so they could get cheapie MS software
<MooDoo> I'm working on server 2012 exams now
<awilkins> You had to employ at least one MCSE to qualify for it
 * AlanBell will have to be OpenERP certified soon
<MooDoo> AlanBell: I don't think you'd have a problem with that would you, seeing as you use it everyday?
<zleap> is there a freenode admin anywhere someone seems to be spamming #lubuntu
<AlanBell> dunno, it is a huge product MooDoo and a new exam
<AlanBell> zleap: I can sort that
<zleap> hes gone but he was just putting how to move mouse pointer with keyboard endlessly
<zleap> AlanBell, if he comes back in i will let you know
<AlanBell> sounds more like someone with a problem than spam exactly :)
<ali1234> where does virtualmin store vhost configurations?
<ali1234> this webserver is a mess
<SuperMatt> I *love* it when I do a complicated sed find and replace, and it works first time :D
<foobarry> zleap: there's a command to type to find out the channel oips
<zleap> ok
<MooDoo> ali1234: no /var/www/vhosts is it?
<foobarry> i don't remember it though
<zleap> ok
<ali1234> MooDoo: no
<ali1234> that is where it stores the httpdocs for the default vhost, by default
<ali1234> but this server is not using default settings
<MooDoo> ali1234: no not into the actual /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf then?
<MooDoo> ali1234: clutching at straws :D
<ali1234> hahaha
<ali1234> yes it is just appending them to that file :/
<ali1234> that's super bad
<ali1234> hmm okay so there's nothing wrong with the php config or the vhost config. if php emitted any errors or warnings they would be logged. but it isn't.
<ali1234> it just cheerfully returns 500 for no reason
<MooDoo> yay :D
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: did you send that form to canonical?
<SuperMatt> not yet, I've been busy
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: to follow up my Rackspace question from yesterday - what section have they put you in?
<bigcalm> Wondering if you'll be answering my support tickets ;)
<SuperMatt> I'm just listed at the moment as Linux Administrator Level 1
<MooDoo> bigcalm: he may be, and fanatically :D
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I'd be worried about somebody who really is fanatical about everything they do
<foobarry> fanatical about commuting
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I just hope SuperMatt gets to use the slide between floors a lot :D
<SuperMatt> I don't remember seeing a slide there
<SuperMatt> Just checking some of the details, I get to hang a flag above my desk
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ah must be the americans then
<SuperMatt> I'm thinking of picking a Gotham City flag
<foobarry> i don't think i'm forbidden from hanging a flag above my desk
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: don't you also have to be doing or have done RHCE to work there?
<SuperMatt> uhm... they hired me without one
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ignore that
<ali1234> someone somewhere typoed a link to this site, but the typo doesn't just 404 - it crashes the blob software
<SuperMatt> oof
<bigcalm> Where are nautilus shares kept? Not in /media that's for sure
<foobarry> .gvfs ?
<bigcalm> That doesn't exist
<MartijnVdS> ~/.gvfs ?
<MartijnVdS> it should, on a desktop
<bigcalm> That doesn't exist
<foobarry> what do you actually mean by the question?
<foobarry> :P
<MooDoo> /run/user/<username>/gvfs
<bigcalm> You can mount a network share without setting it up in /etc/fstab
<bigcalm> I would like to access that location from the CLI
<foobarry> type mount to see whats mounted?
<bigcalm> foobarry: I see it, ta
<bigcalm> MooDoo: that was close, it's the user id not the username, which confused me
<bigcalm> Thanks all :)
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> where was in mounted btw
<foobarry> *it
<bigcalm> Means I can now run: /run/user/1000/gvfs/smb-share\:server\=proliant\,share\=torrents/PapoYo_linux_1389070953.sh
<popey> gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse (rw,nosuid,nodev,user=alan)
<foobarry> is that a new thing in later version?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:/run/user/1000/gvfs$ ls
<popey> mtp:host=%5Busb%3A001%2C021%5D
<popey> smb-share:server=192.168.1.2,share=media,user=alan
<popey> eww
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> "That's better"
<popey> Said no-one, ever.
<foobarry> is there a bug in launchpad for the broken drm in 4od etc?
<popey> what broken drm?
<foobarry> 4od used to work on ubuntu, now it doesn't
<AlanBell> foobarry: I saw that, it looks more like a flash bug
<popey> you used to have to install hal
<popey> wonder if google play is broken too
<foobarry> i have 12.04 with hal
<foobarry> no worky
<MartijnVdS> popey: google play music works fine for me
<popey> yup, broken too
<popey> no, movies
<MartijnVdS> ah they don't do those here
 * popey tries on 12.04
<foobarry> forever spinny thing
<MartijnVdS> yay drm :(
<foobarry> hal                                       0.5.14-8
<AlanBell> and link that takes you to http://www.channel4.com/4viewers/faq/name/digital-rights-3322/id/502974174 which takes you to http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager08.html which doesn't help
<foobarry> kinda sucks if it doesn't work anymore
<MartijnVdS> welcome to the wonderful world of DRM
<foobarry> does this help? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/10/fixing-amazon-prime-streaming-drm-protected-flash-13-10
<foobarry> or same probs
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/a/333805/612
<popey> try that
<foobarry> on 12.04 too?
<MartijnVdS> I'm still wondering why they would use *hal* for DRM stuff
<popey> ah, hal missing
<popey> bug 1048446
<lubotu3> bug 1048446 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "Flash requires hal for video DRM" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048446
<foobarry> WOW
<foobarry> it works \.
<foobarry> \i/
<foobarry> well the ad does...
<foobarry> i tell you for sure in 1 min
<foobarry> yes. it works on1204. thanks. this needs to be publicised a bit more widely
<foobarry> possibly removing .adobe was the cirtical bit
<popey> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=786656#c3 is interesting
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 786656 in hal "HAL needed for Adobe Flash Protected Content" [Unspecified,Closed: wontfix]
<popey> (what they use hal for)
<foobarry> Not being Adobe, I am not going to speculate on why the plugin is
<foobarry> collecting this data (system serial numbers, drive serial numbers, drive
<foobarry> sizes, potentially processor identification strings), or what it's doing
<foobarry> with this data once it is collected. But that is what it's using HAL for
<foobarry> :-|
<MartijnVdS> Big OD4 is Watching You?
<Laney> seems like the kind of thing you might want for DRM
<MartijnVdS> Laney: .. if you want DRM like that in the first place.
<popey> where "you" is "they"
<foobarry> especially if channel4 put their stuff on youtube anyway :SD
<popey> they dont put it all on youtube
<foobarry> don't put it all on 4od either :(
<bigcalm> Papo & Yo works nicely on my workstation. Should try it on my SteamOS machine someday
<popey> blimey, not even adverts on 4od play smoothly
<popey> surprising, usually the adverts are perfect, programmes stream badly
<popey> yeah, programme works on 12.04 here too
<popey> "This programme contains product placement"
<foobarry> which one?
<dwatkins> popey: what kind of player does 4od use?
<popey> flash
<foobarry> i ~which progr?
<popey> 2 mins into the programme and the content hasn't started
<popey> all intro so far
<dwatkins> what flash version do you have, popey?
<popey> taste
<foobarry> i try not to watch product placement programmes
<popey> whatever 12.04 comes with
<popey> hah
<foobarry> except i did watch james bond film
<dwatkins> so the latest one downloaded by the flash-player-installer package or whatever it's called?
<dwatkins> popey: I assume you're using Firefox
<popey> chromium
<dwatkins> ah yes, chromium is in the repos
<davmor2> adamantium
<davmor2> sorry were we not not shouting out random metals
<popey> 11.2 r 202
<foobarry> knocked a full cup of water over my desk
<foobarry> fortunately the keyboard got in the way of the laptop
<foobarry> and all my gonks
<dwatkins> unobtanium
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/washable-keyboard-k310
<davmor2> foobarry: D'oh
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
<diddledan> How do
<diddledan> Bah @autocorrect
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<dwatkins> bah, 4od doesn't even start playing for me
<dwatkins> perhaps because it thinks I'm in Ireland
<diddledan> What you doing in Ireland?
<bigcalm> proxy?
<dwatkins> big network
<dwatkins> our traffic routes through a different office
<bigcalm> Shouldn't you be working instead of watching 4od? :P
<diddledan> Oh Yes. Work. :-p
<bigcalm> Says he who was "testing" Papo & Yo earlier
<foobarry> touche
<foobarry> popey, are all your updates up to date on 12.04?
<foobarry> i noticed flashpugininstaller wants to update
<foobarry> i should have tired a full dist-upgrade before the fix
<ali1234> 4OD is borked for me
<ali1234> it just spins forever
<foobarry> ali1234: did you read the scrollback?
<foobarry> the askubuntu link fixed it
<ali1234> yeah?
<AlanBell> worked for me too, I now have lots of adverts playing
<AlanBell> and now I have Nigella eating food
<popey> foobarry: i updated it yesterday
<foobarry> nigella is everywhere :S
<Laney> phwoar
<Laney> if only
<foobarry> :-|
<diddledan> Really?!
<foobarry> her marriage her that saatchi bloke seems utterly bizarre
<diddledan> I don't think phwoar is warranted
<foobarry> i'm married so i only have phwoar for my wife
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> Is she reading your screen?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> but keeping the phwoar for my wife helps me have a healthy marriage
<foobarry> Â£30 kobo?
 * AlanBell has one
<AlanBell> kobo mini, it is rather good
<foobarry> touch is out of stock at Â£30 but the mini is Â£30
 * popey hugs his nook
<diplo> http://www.troyhunt.com/2014/01/scammer-identifies-viruses-in-brand-new.html
<diplo> :)
<foobarry> he said cheap nook, not cheap nookie
<diplo> heh
<diplo> Was following that guy on twitter, was tweeting stuff as it happened :)
<popey> where's the 30 quid kobo?
<AlanBell> popey: smiths
<kvarley> Is it possible to do this with a hosts file? Say I have a server setup running a bunch of virtualhost sites and one is x.com. I want to be able to access x2.com and it actually load x.com on the server IP I specify.
<kvarley> I can't simply do x.com x.x.x.x because then I won't be able to access the live x.com
<AlanBell> it has touchscreen e-ink display and wifi and has a web browser that works fairly well considering
<BigRedS> kvarley: you need the server to be in cahoots with you
<BigRedS> since your browser will ask it for x2.com and it might not know what to do with that request
<DJones> I've had a kobo touch since they came out, they do work well, the web browser isn't that good to be honest, its more of a alpha release browser rather than something meant to be used
<BigRedS> you *could* set x2.com to resolve to localhost and have a webserver there configured to do the appropriate redirect; what's the actual problem you're trying to solve? Testing a dev site?
<kvarley> BigRedS: I have access to the server. My problem is the client has a live site running on x.com and my own server is running the same url as a virtualhost. I need to be able to access both the original site and the new one
<popey> http://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/kobo-mini-white-ereader/product/36144563
<popey> that?
<AlanBell> DJones: depends on what you want to do with it, if you want to write your own mini application specifically for it then it is great
<kvarley> BigRedS: Granted  I could change my virtualhost to a different URL but I was trying to keep it realistic so I can just switch to live whenever via DNS. I think I'm probably best changing it to x.fakedomain ?
<AlanBell> popey: yup
<BigRedS> kvarley: yeah, that's tricky. The least inelegant solution I've found is to use dev.whatever.com for dev/staging. It's something that I'd expected there to be a browser plugin for by now
<kvarley> BigRedS: Ok thanks just checking I wasn't missing an obvious solution haha :)
<AlanBell> popey: mass storage device and you can drop epub files on it and other stuff if you want to read on it
<DJones> popey: http://www.whsmith.co.uk/dept/kobo-ereaders/home#kobo-ereaders Normal Kobo Touch is Â£30 (same as the kobo mini), but out of stock, not really a surprise as its old/obsolete stock that was replaced about 4-5 months ago
<popey> sounds very similar to my nook
<AlanBell> probably is
<daftykins> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/12/absurd-creature-of-the-week-2/
<daftykins> that thing is nasty
<foobarry> the nook was Â£29 too wasn't it?
<foobarry> my tablet takes too long to boot up and doesn't hold charge v well, so a cheapy cheap eink ereader would be good
<foobarry> i appear to have pulled a whole rosemary bush out of my "rustic" foccacia roll
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> Well done foobarry
<foobarry> why do i have to "mod" my sandwiches :(
<diddledan> Because you're a geek?
<foobarry> nah, just like things with less excess
<foobarry> mr moderation
<BigRedS> Is there some way to force a CD on login in openssh? chrooted sftp dumps the user in the chroot dir, to which they cannot write
<BigRedS> so I'm hoping to automate their arriving in a subdir to which they can write
<foobarry> what does /etc/passwd say?
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I guess I just make their homedir be that subdir
<foobarry> either that or put something in .bash_profile to change dir, but that makes it more difficult for the next admin to discover whats happened
<nigelb> all those nigella pings.
<nigelb> :P
<daftykins> XD
<jussi> oooh, that nigella cook person does some fantastic food :D
<nigelb> jussi: thank you :P
<jussi> nigelb: hehe, sorry :P
<jussi> she does do a nice show though :P?
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: you're nigel B, he was talking about nigel A
<nigelb> hahahaha
 * neuro glares at schwuk ...
<schwuk> neuro?
<neuro> thou hast unfollowed me on the twitters
<schwuk> schwuk: I have?
<neuro> apparently
<neuro> :)
<daftykins> that devil!
<neuro> I NO RITE
<neuro> schwuk: lol
<foobarry> i gave up facebook and twitter this week
<foobarry> to see how i'd do without it
<neuro> schwuk: wasn't sure if it was deliberate or accidental
<foobarry> so far it's been q difficult tbh
<schwuk> neuro: it appears I had. You were clearly no longer relevant to my interests.
<neuro> schwuk: and wasn't upset either way, just curious, especially if it was something i had said
<neuro> schwuk: yeah, that happens
<neuro> maybe i should just tweet "ubuntu" every so often
<foobarry> can evince do markup in PDFs yet?
<foobarry> highlights etc
<neuro> foobarry: i look at friendface every day or so, but i go on chitter in fits and bursts every few days or every couple of weeks
<jussi> anyone here into home automation/sensors?
<jussi> found this, was really cool I thought: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ninja/ninja-sphere-next-generation-control-of-your-envir
<jussi> also been looking at https://sen.se
<daftykins> hmm i may be forced to get a new boiler soon and was hoping to tie that into some form of control
<jussi> daftykins: 259 AUD isnt all that much in sterling
<jussi> 140 pounds
<jussi> and there was free shipping iirc...
<dwatkins> daftykins: you might find this site interesting: http://www.briandorey.com/category/Raspberry-Pi-.aspx
<daftykins> ty sir!
<daftykins> i don't think the Vailant condensing boilers my local supplier does are controllable mind :/
<SuperMatt> I thought you said mind controllable
<SuperMatt> which would be a damn awesome boiler
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> could probably have done with a comma that, yeah
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: most of those smart controllers just use the cables you normally use to attach the temperature dial thingy
<SuperMatt> oh that's cool
<daftykins> yeah, they sell a wireless control module with the one i might get though
<daftykins> so it's all-change again i think
<Azelphur> My internet is nice and functional this morning, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-08-133628_1043x659_scrot.png
<Azelphur> gave up trying to complete that speed test, dialup yeeeeaaaaaa
<SuperMatt> good lord
<SuperMatt> you must really be suffering
<daftykins> Azelphur: you just can't catch a break can you? D:
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<Azelphur> they say they are gonna fix it next week
<SuperMatt> are you sure there isn't a box in your house somewhere seeding a lot of torrents?
<daftykins> that wouldn't do that much damage!
<daftykins> a week!?
<jussi> daftykins: the nice thing about that kickstarter thing is it is planned to be open source software
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe they put you on the children's internet? ;)
<Azelphur> SuperMatt: yea, ISP has already confirmed they are getting a lot of complaints and it's caused by an overloaded node
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, maybe ;)
<dwatkins> Azelphur: can you spend your days in a local coffee shop and bill them for the coffee?
<Azelphur> I asked if they'd refund me for the month so I can get a 3g dongle, they said no
<Azelphur> :<
<dwatkins> "service not fit for use" is the phrase which springs to mind
<MartijnVdS> that's not coffee though :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: for you, I imagine that suggestion would have a whole different connotation ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: nah, we have Starbucks here. And they don't sell weed 8-)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: also something called "Coffee Company"
<MartijnVdS> which seems similar
<dwatkins> we don't even have a coffee shop near our office, just some dodgy looking trailers which sell burgers and pies
<dwatkins> There's a Tesco, which has a little cafÃ©, but it's a mile or two away.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: do you work in the middle of a field?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: nearly
<dwatkins> we're right next to the bypass, so there's cheap housing on one side, and a chicken farm on the other
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "What's this incredible smell?"
<dwatkins> yep, we get that when the wind's blowing the wrong way
<dwatkins> there's also the recycling centre / rubbish tip...
 * MartijnVdS is in the middle of Amsterdam
<MartijnVdS> well, slightly to the west of the middle
<dwatkins> we're about 5 miles from the centre
<MartijnVdS> of Amsterdam?!
<dwatkins> lol no
<foobarry> kobo touch are back in stock
<foobarry> tempted.
<jussi> dwatkins: so you could say you are "a little off centre" ? :P
<SuperMatt> I've got a nook, which has a touch screen
<SuperMatt> it's very good
<dwatkins> jussi: aye, I'm a tad off-kilter
 * dwatkins imagines SuperMatt sitting in a nook like this http://www.jimandellen.org/ellen/74Pallisers23Alicereadingwindowseat.jpg
<jussi> dwatkins: :D
<SuperMatt> how did you know about my dresses?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: yes in that dress too ;)
<dwatkins> sorry, I couldn't find a better picture of what I imagined
<SuperMatt> well now my cross dressing is out there, I guess I don't need to hide my true self any more
<dwatkins> I could tell you all about the night I wore a little black dress, but it was only once.
<MooDoo> what about - http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/10/manchairpipe.png SuperMary
<SuperMary> look, I've outed myself now
<SuperMary> there's no going back in
<dwatkins> once you pop, you can't stop
<SuperMary> I wish I had small, girly hands, so I could reach the bottom of a pringle can without having to tip it up
<SuperMary> there's always detritus at the bottom which gets all over your best peticoat
<MooDoo> SuperMary: you go sista!
<SuperMary> Where am I going?
<jussi> in other news, Thomas Hitzlsberger came out.... only the 4th professional footballer to do so
<MartijnVdS> SuperMary: Up?
<SuperMary> good answer
<SuperMatt> jussi: that's some good news
<foobarry> came out of the dressing room?
<jussi> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25628806
<SuperMatt> I don't know if lack of out football players is low because of fear, or low because I don't know any gay guys that like football
<foobarry> or maybe they prefer to talk about football
<MooDoo> I really don't think that's news, does any one really care?  he's a footy player, will it make a difference to his playing...no
<SuperMatt> I think it's important for it to be mentioned
<MooDoo> I don't think so...but that's just me
<SuperMatt> there will be a time when everyone considers it normal, but that time isn't yet
<foobarry> anyone had experience stripping drm from kobo books? and what formats does it support?
<SuperMatt> so we have to make it news so that the bigots can finally get the picture
<Seeker`> Someones sexual preference doesn't make any difference to anything ever
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: well there's the fictional team with the 2 married (to each other) strikers: http://www.youtube.com/hankgames
<MooDoo> Seeker`: +1
 * directhex smells privilege
<directhex> it's easy to say it doesn't matter if the issue has never affected you personally
<directhex> but for a closeted teenager, gay role models are important
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you agree it *shouldn't* matter though right?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, well, duh
<foobarry> normal = the usual condition
<Seeker`> directhex: it doesn't matter whether a footballer is gay or not.
<foobarry> by definition, normal = heterosexual
<foobarry> but i know what you are saying
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: uh?
<directhex> Seeker`, it matters if you feel alienated by being different. "look at all these real men, none of them are gay" etc
<foobarry> if i was gay i'd be more annoyed at the media overpromoting the camp gay guy over a more normal bloke
<Myrtti> the point is you're not
<Seeker`> directhex: I just don't think it should be news that someone is gay
<Myrtti> and personally I wouldn't be able to say what I would or wouldn't think or do if I were
<MooDoo> agreed
<foobarry> Myrtti: i mean over a more normal gay guy
<MooDoo> so any who, when you start your new job SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> 20th
<MooDoo> let me know how AWESOME it is :D
<SuperMatt> I shall
<MartijnVdS> AWE32some
<MooDoo> woohoo
<SuperMatt> I've been reading some docs today and it's seeming more awesome each time
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: 32?  that all, shouldn't it be at least 64?
 * Seeker` realised how little his family know about computers when they started saying he now works for "linux"
<SuperMatt> I was gonna say I was looking forward to dressing down, but I already dress down
<Seeker`> err, when they said my cousin now works for "linux"
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I had an AWE64, it didn't even come with enough memory!
 * Seeker` managed to miss out some words there
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ah understand now
<foobarry> in answer to my qusetion, kobo supports Books: EPUB, PDF and MOBI
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: so that's all popular formats (mobi = kindle, I think)
<foobarry> isn't amz kindle?
<foobarry> drm removal req'd first
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: deep down inside it's mobi :)
<foobarry> so..will i always be able to remove drm from kindle?
<MartijnVdS> had the whole DRM discussion last night.. a family member had bought a kindle and wanted to move over her iBooks (apple) books
<bashrc> I doubt it
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: as long as people hack kindles, they can figure out the DRM scheme and undo it.. it has to be decrypted for presentation anyway
<foobarry> everytime i upgrade my OS i need to faff around trying to get calibre working with the drm removal etc
<foobarry> its a pain
<awilkins> ^^ this
<awilkins> There are always periods where the DRM removal doesn't work
<awilkins> Because it's catching up
<awilkins> It's almost put me off buying books and having them delivered via the wifi because the OS upgrades come that way too
<foobarry> next question...
<foobarry> do they dispaly pdf natively or need to convert them? and does it suck?
<awilkins> Kindle does show PDF and it does suck a bit
<awilkins> Because PDF is designed to lay out for a page
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: from what I've seen, they do it natively but (a) slow and (b) most PDFs don't have the required hints for text reflowing
<awilkins> And an ereader screen works best when you can reflow the text
<directhex> don't try to read comic book pdfs on an e-reader
<daftykins> i was trying to put an epub into a folder for the amazon kindle app to read under android last night, i could've sworn i'd done it before
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: the app might well support it. The devices don't.
<daftykins> i can't tell now, i thought i had one or two on-device in a Kindle folder, but they're gone now
<daftykins> can't even be sure if i really did use them or i'd bought them O_O
<knightwise> evenin everyone
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> although afternoon, i don't want it to be that late so soon D:
<daftykins> 1hr to disassemble a Sony laptop, re-do the thermal paste, dust out the cooler and reassemble \o/
<knightwise> daftykins: ! cool :)
<knightwise> daftykins: try Aldiko
<knightwise> its a good reader
<knightwise> for reading books and stuff under Android.
<daftykins> yeah i ended up having to grab that :)
<knightwise> I use Aldiko and Calibre .. golden combp
<daftykins> mmm i saw talk of conversion with Calibre
<daftykins> this was a sort of 5 minute stab before sleep though :>
<knightwise> daftykins: its a good app, I've been using it over the last couple of years
<knightwise> if you use calibresync you can push rss epubs to your device and stuff
<foobarry> kobo ordered
<knightwise> cool
<foobarry> measly 2% cashback via quido
<AlanBell> time for my afternoon porridge
<bigcalm> I wish it was time for my afternoon nap
<bigcalm> I'd sneak one in if I wasn't going to the LUG tonight
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's this evening over steak surely?
<bigcalm> davmor2: steaks from there are behind me. I only have the pulled pork now :D
<bigcalm> You equate to attending the LUG as having a nap?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Noooooooo, but the look on your face after you've sccoffed says I want to be asleep now :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I hope I have enough energy for badminton tomorrow evening
<davmor2> bigcalm: why you been buying more pens?
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> No, but I did get around to buying proper footwear
<davmor2> bigcalm: me somehow I missed the energy bit from your statement
<ali1234> urgh someone is spamming this server with hack attempts and filling up the logs
<ali1234> joomla!!!!!
<diddledan__> ali1234: this is why real sysadmins don't watch logs :-p
<ali1234> yeah i'm trying to track down a different problem and the logs are just this hack attempt over and over
<diddledan__> unless it's filling up to such a degree that you're running out of space :-)
<diddledan__> ergh
<ali1234> it would be if not for log rotate
<diddledan__> yeah I feel for you
<diddledan__> my webserver logs are diagnosis-only
<ali1234> basically we have 1 week of logs
<diddledan__> I never look at them unless something goes wrong
<ali1234> normally the log rotate would last like a year
<MartijnVdS> but thanks to .xz those logs an be only 100kb ;)
<MartijnVdS> only have to be*
<foobarry> does logrotate support xz?
<foobarry> if i rmember the config files say "compress"
<foobarry> but i can't remember where the type is set
<popey> i love that we use logrotate on the phone
<popey> makes it feel like a proper geeky device
<MartijnVdS> to rotate call logs? ;)
<foobarry> i never know waht the heck android is doig, would be nice to have a phone i could troubleshoot properly
<foobarry> and turn off logging etc to speed it up
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: no there are a whole heap of upstart application logs etc
<diplo> Anyone in here use replication software
<SuperMatt> what kind of replication?
<diplo> heh, was tring to get links before anyone replied
<diplo> http://www.visionsolutions.com/Products/DT-Avail.aspx
<SuperMatt> ah, I wouldn't know about windows stuff
<diplo> http://www.quest.com/netvault/
<diplo> Nah on linux machines
<diplo> http://www.quest.com/netvault/
<foobarry> eye strain from staring at vmware pages all day :(
<diplo> Basically the customer is currently using the latter one, but my boss wants me to install the first one
<diplo> And I was wondering ( can't find any answers via google ) whether there would be any conflicts on a linux box if they are both trying to replicate
<SuperMatt> I have no idea
<diplo> Me either :)
<SuperMatt> As long as they're not replicating at the same time, I can't see it being much harm
<SuperMatt> but then you're potentially doubling your downtime
<diplo> Its replicated at block level, does it live
<SuperMatt> hurm
<SuperMatt> sounds like if you're running two at once, you're just adding extra overheard to your server
<SuperMatt> *overhead
<diplo> Yeah can't think of it causing an issue unless some sort of kernel issue running two of these types of applications at the same tiem
<SuperMatt> Why not just drbd?
<diplo> Or having two installed more to the point
<diplo> Never tried it
<diplo> I've barely ever touched this type of software before, basically we got a tes tlicense last year, I set it up on two vms, sync'd explained how to set it up and haven't seen it since
<diplo> And now they want me to install it on a customers site and I'm not sure I want to break it :D
<daftykins> diplo: ouch!
<diplo> This is what my place is like unfortunately, no hardware/software really to test with
<diplo> I like the looks of DRBD though
<diplo> I'm supposed to be a software dev now ( supposedly! ) but anything more than config changes I get to do
<daftykins> ...are?
<diplo> ? Basically we're a software company but offer support on anything IT related, except that apart from basics all the guys in the offices know is basic setup or stuff they've done before
<diplo> I'd rather be back as sysadmin full time than what I do now
<popey> hehe http://www.gizchina.com/2014/01/08/meizu-mx3-shows-ubuntu-certified-labelling/
<diplo> looks like a lavel removed from a laptop or similar and stuck on it :D
<diplo> label*
<popey> yeah â»
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan__> especially as the top-right corner is creased where they used their fingernails to remove it from said laptop
<daftykins> ugh driver woes in Windows, who'd have thought... D:
<diddledan__> wait, windows has issues?
<diddledan__> what planet are you from?!
<daftykins> a little known one
<diddledan__> ork?
<diddledan__> you name isn't mork by any chance?
<daftykins> wait let me check for rainbow braces
<daftykins> just a lovely clean install on a Sony laptop (:
<diddledan__> my old sony loplop was a workhorse - gotta be over 10 years old now tho
<diddledan__> pentium M
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> quirky to install in Windows they are, as everything must go on in the right order
<diddledan__> complete with centrino tech
<daftykins> that was just marketing meaning intel 1) wifi card 2) chipset 3) processor
<diddledan__> yup
<daftykins> but a nice combo at that :D
<diddledan__> just meant that all three were present and made by intel
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> Queenie doesn't look too youthful on my neighbouring isles' money
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq4ywvl05rxnj04/IMG_20140108_174741.jpg
<MooDoo> evening all
<directhex> daftykins, she's 87
<daftykins> yes, historically our money is hilariously out of date though
<daftykins> hi MooDoo
<MartijnVdS> get a new monarch more often
<MartijnVdS> that keeps the money fresh :)
<MartijnVdS> (though the "Willem-Alexander" euros still haven't been released yeat)
<MartijnVdS> yet
<shauno> I'd vote for a new monarch
<shauno> not that there's anything wrong with this one, she just got a bit boring
<MooDoo> shauno: we need harry as king :)
<jussi> MooDoo: then you have legalised canabis, drinking, dressing up as dictators,  and other fuin...
<jussi> how old is the old bird anyway?
<MartijnVdS> 18:51 < directhex> daftykins, she's 87
<jussi> ahh, the value of reading back more than a few lines
<daftykins> ;)
<jussi> have any of you got pounds with the King on them still? I would actually really like to have one of those...
<daftykins> i don't even know what Guernsey used prior to decimalisation
<MartijnVdS> jussi: my grandmother used to collect coins with the queen Wilhelmina on them (and that was when we had Beatrix, after Juliana)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: she then divided those coins among her grandchildren at the end of the year
<daftykins> did the kids try to eat them thinking they were chocolate?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: no, because the coins weren't larger or anything
<daftykins> size doesn't affect chocolate potential!
<popey> Evening all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<daftykins> gentlemen *tips hat*
<daftykins> i am keen to try out this Chinese place tonight
<daftykins> i've not bought a Chinese since moving into this place, as i didn't know where they were
<popey> \o/ chinese
<popey> we had chinese last weekend, was yum
<popey> not had any for a while
<daftykins> 8D
<popey> crispy duck nom nom
<daftykins> i've never branched out especially far with Chinese
<daftykins> i always get Chicken in Black Bean sauce with egg fried rice
<popey> also, shredded chilli beef
<popey> nom nom nom
<popey> we usually get the same tbh
<popey> also, lemon chicken
<popey> also, king prawn noodles..
<popey> oh god I have just eaten and now want chinese
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins hides
<daftykins> what *did* you have?
<MartijnVdS> popey: get some chinese green tea instead ;)
<daftykins> hahar
<MartijnVdS> http://thecodinglove.com/post/72681300803/how-i-picture-our-apps-users
<daftykins> :D
<Myrtti> BABBY MEERKAT!
<daftykins> WHERE!?
<Myrtti> apparently at home in UK
<Myrtti> but
<mapps> time to watch lone survivor;)
<Myrtti> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131088791212 <-- BABBY MEERKAT
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> in a onesie!
<Myrtti> it's so KYYYYUUUTTE
<daftykins> bid Myrtti! quick!
<Myrtti> why, I already have one ;-)
<Myrtti> well, we have one
<daftykins> they can be twins!
<ali1234> how is babby meerkat formed?
<daftykins> to yahoo answers!
<Myrtti> oh dear
<daftykins> from another channel: http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf
<MartijnVdS> that link is broken here
<daftykins> oh yes
<Myrtti> apparently the Babby has a nappy underneath the babygro :-D
<lazarus_> anybody know of any company's within the UK that sell the ubuntu laptop/desktop
<Azelphur> dell sell some, http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd
<lazarus_> dell makes me cringe
<lazarus_> but
<Azelphur> lazarus_: http://linuxpreloaded.com/ is a handy page, do ctrl+f for UK
<Azelphur> seems to have quite the list
<foobarry> had ti turn off the news.. too much duggan stuff
 * AlanBell has been rooting a kobo :)
<celesteh> i am trying to install ubuntu on my gf's lenovo from a dvd and i can't get the damn thing to boot off a dvd. any suggestions on how to get into the bios thingee?
<shauno> kobo?
<shauno> celesteh: I don't know myself, but there's comprehensive-looking list at http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=YAST-3JWKJX  (short answer, if it has a blue button, it's that one)
<celesteh> cheers, it's function-F12.
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-09
<Guest91954> yo
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> morn
<foobarry> AlanBell: what does rooting it give you? i have one on the way
<MartijnVdS> you can read books with extra privileges?
<foobarry> "press this button to find out whodunnit"
<MooDoo> press left button to go to page 45 and go down the tunnel, press right button to go to page 25 and see who picked up the glass ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: choose-your-own ebook adventure?
<MartijnVdS> now that I'd pay for :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: new business venture :D
<foobarry> aren't they called hyperlinks now?
<AlanBell> foobarry: I can telnet into it and do stuff
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: sure you could use hyperlinks to get the effect..
<popey> i "rooted" my nook, then put it back to normal once I realised I didn't need it rooted but it worked just fine without rooting
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo popey
<diplo> Colder but drier this morning! yay
<diplo> How're we all ?
<MooDoo> Not to bad to be honest, replaced hard drive in laptop the other day, re-installed all went ok
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: lost any data from the old one?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I backed up to my server before replaced, not a failure just a replacement 160gb to 1tb
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: so it's still spinning rust? :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: I've gone from dual boot win8/ubuntu to pure ubuntu
<diplo> My laptop at home is pure ubuntu, want to check whether I can stick an SSD in it but not sure how to find out yet
<MooDoo> diplo: it should, it's still the same connector.
<ali1234> unless the laptop is IDE
<MooDoo> ali1234: wow laptops still have ide?
<ali1234> i have one with IDE yeah
<ali1234> if it had IDE when it was made chances are it still has IDE now :)
<MooDoo> ali1234: old laptop?
<ali1234> yeah it's a second generation netbook
<diplo> Sorry guys, phone
<MooDoo> diplo: god dammit ;)
<diplo> Nah it is a Sata interface, I tried a hybrid I bought for someone in there
<diplo> Didn't recognise it, not sure if a hybrid would cause any different issues
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> i would like a non-kindle ereader to be able to read kindle books without having to strip drm
<bigcalm> You want the moon on a stick, that's what you want
<foobarry> is that too much?
<bigcalm> A little early 90s reference there
<foobarry> it could be android with teh kidnel app
<popey> foobarry: nook can run the kindle app
<foobarry> yeah, i heard that was the case
<popey> i ran it on mine for a bit, not optimal though
<mapps> urgh cant get rid of this cold/flu ..wakeup still got this sore throat =[
<foobarry> i suppose it will teach me to strip drm from my kindle books straight away, which uis good practice anyway
<foobarry> my problem is that i wanted a kindle but i'm a cheapskate
<foobarry> even then, kindle can't open epub..
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<mapps> morn
<MooDoo> morning
<diplo> foobarry: Calibre -> Strip DRM -> Library -> Sync to device ( Auto converts ) no issue ?
<popey> diplo: does it convert to epub?
<foobarry> "strip DRM" is not a simple step AFAIrecall
<foobarry> it wasn't a single button
<dwatkins> if only it were always that simple
<Myrtti> foobarry: that's the reason I haven't gone and gotten the kindle or any other 'branded' eReader that has a lockdown to Kindle
<Myrtti> I do have an old Sony eReader but I've not used it for years really
<dwatkins> I e-mail myself PDFs of books to my Kindle.
<dwatkins> Generally when I already have the paper version, of course.
<foobarry> pdf reading sucks doesn't it? unless on a tablet
<dwatkins> Depends on the book, sometimes they convert fairly well (put 'convert' in the e-mail subject)
<foobarry> probably my vmware book will not..
<foobarry> actually thats already an amz...it sucks :)
<dwatkins> I was considering buying the C bible, got it on Kindle but it was still pretty expensive.
<MooDoo> got my online vmware course come through finally :D
<Myrtti> come on little charger, come to mama
<Myrtti> (http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00DQ1QLFS/)
<MartijnVdS> whoa
<MartijnVdS> if only laptops could charge from USB :)
<Myrtti> I ... MUST .... HAVE ... PPPPOOOOWWWAAARRRRHHH
<Myrtti> I forgot the EU plug of my two-way usb charger to UK
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you can plug EU plugs into UK sockets, or do you need the other one?
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: I had one of those travel ones that you can take the prongs out and switch - I took the UK plug off, left it into my bedside drawer and forgot to check I had packed the EU one into my backpack
<Myrtti> so I now have a charger without prongs in Finland, and three or four different kinds of prongs in UK
<shauno> sounds like a great excuse for new toys ;)
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ah, the worst possible "combination" of parts (except for "just the prongs", maybe :)
<Myrtti> shauno: well, a) the Anker one uses the standard cable instead of proprietary prongs, and b) at worst times I have three phones and a tablet to charge
<Myrtti> so yes, I recon it was a good reason to get new toys, because even with the two way charger I had to make a judgement call every evening which device to charge
<shauno> yeah, I spotted the figure-8 plug there.  I always look for those, very handy - it means if all else fails, I can jam it together with a spare plug off any of my apple toys, and turn it into a wall-wart
<Myrtti> I wish I had known those exist a year ago, would've ordered one then
<Myrtti> this is what I've had so far http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0063EBPXS/
<MartijnVdS> https://twitter.com/chris__martin/status/420992421673988096
<shauno> that said, I wish I could find adaptors that use the round-style eu plug. sticking the narrow one into a round hole always feels very flimsy
<MartijnVdS> shauno: the round-style plug is only for devices that need ground and require more power
<Myrtti> we bought from Lidl an extension cord that has slots for both the round grounded ones and the slim ones
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I'm assuming you mean "the narrow one" is "europlug" and "the round one" is Schuko
<shauno> yeah, that's the ones
<Myrtti> if D would change the input plug to a UK one then I could be happy with all my Finnish kit
<Myrtti> which reminds me of the need to pack my SAD lamp
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you could install one or two UK sockets in Finland, and/or several EU sockets in the UK :)
<shauno> having my laptop's brick hanging off a europlug just doesn't feel like it's going to stay there
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS: no need to install UK sockets to Finland, I'm moving out :-/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: really? guess it's down to what you're used to :)
<shauno> well, I'm used to the UK sockets which were clearly designed to outlast the human race :D
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I've had bad connections with those too though
<foobarry> never...must be a problem with the wall :D
<foobarry> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4422853/onewheel-the-self-balancing-electric-skateboard
<foobarry> unicycle for the modern era
<popey> hipsters
<shauno> it's a shame it's getting harder and harder to find bare plugs though.  my old trick was to pick up the cheapest power strip I could find, cut the foreign plug off and pop a fresh one on
<shauno> I have 6 US outlets and 4 schucko outlets screwed under my desk for a surprisingly low price that way
<directhex> ... 230 volt US outlets?
<foobarry> !info calibre
<lubotu3> calibre (source: calibre): e-book converter and library management. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.0.0+dfsg-1build1 (saucy), package size 17507 kB, installed size 35782 kB
<shauno> heh, yes :)
<shauno> almost everything uses switching supplies that are okay with that these days.  anything that does - well I was probably going to blow it up sooner or later
<shauno> er, anything that doesn't, rather
<ali1234> switch mode power supplies are basically magic
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<diplo> shauno: Electrical Wholesalers have them in bucket loads ( I work inside of one ) andused to work for one
<diplo> Plugs that is
<bigcalm> diplo: you work inside a bucket?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: pronounced "Bouquet"?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh my god, you didn't have to suffer Keeping up Appearances, did you?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: we did
<diplo> bigcalm:  :)
<Myrtti> yyyyyeeaaahh.
<MooDoo> arrrrghghh
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: what are you pirating now? ;)
<MooDoo> lol :) I don't pirate.....
<MartijnVdS> yet you talked like one there :)
<MooDoo> I'm not wearing my eye patch so it doesn't count
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<foobarry> whats the accepted way of installing recent version of calibre ?
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install calibre ?
<foobarry> old version
<foobarry> no ppa
<MartijnVdS> no idea.. get the deb from a newer Ubuntu?
<foobarry> still old :P
<foobarry> sudo python -c "import sys; py3 = sys.version_info[0] > 2; u = __import__('urllib.request' if py3 else 'urllib', fromlist=1); exec(u.urlopen('http://status.calibre-ebook.com/linux_installer').read()); main()"
<MartijnVdS> EWWW
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> and updates?
<MooDoo> https://launchpad.net/~n-muench/+archive/calibre
<MartijnVdS> What's wrong with the package?
<MooDoo> not this one?
<foobarry> i'm on 12.04
<foobarry> just checking if this works
<popey> yeah, get it from upstream
<popey> he updates really frequently
<popey> nice chap
<foobarry> latest is 1.18 i think
<foobarry> he has 1.14...
 * foobarry reads chagelog
<foobarry> only 1 month old
<foobarry> ta, i'll do that
<foobarry> 1.15 has some intereesting new features
<foobarry> A new book editor, capable of editing files in the EPUB and AZW3 (Kindle) formats
<foobarry> Right click on any book in calibre and choose 'Edit Book', to edit e-books in the EPUB and AZW3 formats.
<foobarry> i wonder what kind of income the guy makes
<popey> he quit his day job
<popey> based on donations alone
<foobarry> argh no precise ppa
<foobarry> ah he has another one, thats a bit (too) older
<bigcalm> Is there an imprecise one?
<bigcalm> </troll>
<bigcalm> I should go back to my code
<MartijnVdS> hmmm code
 * MartijnVdS writes some more tests
 * foobarry does more battle with IBM
<bigcalm> popey: so, you like cats eh?
<foobarry> wow calibre interface is still ugly
<foobarry> needs complete overhaul
<foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153723789980204 wake skating in surrey
<MooDoo> foobarry: looks good not impressed that people want to risk playing in that kinda water :S
<foobarry> sure they know what they are doing
<MooDoo> yeah I guess
<foobarry> surrey is just wet with puddles rather than cornwall type floods
<foobarry> although the river overflowed in town centre of guildford
<bigcalm> I imagine that it improved Guildford
<foobarry> :o
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I don't have the best of memories from there, sorry
<foobarry> must be a super snob if you are snobby about g'ford
<foobarry> because g'ford people are snobby about everywhere else
<foobarry> (in my experience)
<popey> foobarry: we asked the author when we interviewed him about the UI
<popey> he said basically you're not target audience
<foobarry> "windows 98 users"
<foobarry> not being ungrateful but poosbily hes a coder rather than a UI designer
<MartijnVdS> separate frontend vs backend would work for me.. I can write my own frontend ;)
<diplo> My dad uses it without issue, so it works I guess and dad has never complained, I don't mind the UI
<foobarry> its the worst UI i can think of
<Myrtti> popey: who's the target audience then
<diplo> I guess people like my dad, he isn't technical at all and just got on and used it
<foobarry> it's unintuitive
<diplo> not complained what it looks like, but as per you guys it wasn't a wow factor when I first used it
<diplo> Well it must be fairly intuitive otherwise the non techical wouldn't be able to use it, it doesn't work how a technical person expects it to is probably a better case
<popey> yeah, exactly
<popey> non-techy people, many of whom bought an e-reader before a pc
<MartijnVdS> I still think the interface could be better for both techies *and* non-techies
<popey> i agree â»
<davmor2> Morning all
<foobarry> like this mockup http://dribbble.com/joshkennedy
<MooDoo> AlanBell: going for code club community manager? ;)
<foobarry> although if there's an ibooks app it probavbly already looks like this
<AlanBell> MooDoo: nope, I am too grumpy :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ha ha ha ha
<MartijnVdS> also, you don't say "community" often enough I guess
<Myrtti> I thought that was mr. Bacon's line
<bashrc> community community community...
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I thought jono said it enough for everyone
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: isn't that because he's the community manager ?
<Myrtti> I assume he didn't get the job just because sabdfl likes his face
<AlanBell> it was the beard
 * popey can't help but think codeclub saw my tweet this morning â»
<AlanBell> yeah, I think you have been inspirational
<MooDoo> popey: apparently you like cats :)
<AlanBell> popey hugs all the phablets
<mapps> hm
<mapps> hope this escape plan's better than arnies other recent film
<neuro> last stand wasn't *that* bad
<neuro> (morning all)
<mapps> hey neuro
<mapps> hmm i didnt enjoy it at all..maybe i expected too much
<neuro> i didn't :)
<mapps> watched lone survivor yesterday and wolf of wall st both were good:)
<MooDoo> I watched the history of mojang/minecraft, which was quite interesting, clever man, rich man :D
<mapps> lone survivor was very good..wolf of wall st's pretty long 2hrs44!!!!
<mapps> id have hated to be in the cinema for that long
<mapps> uncomfortable seats..cant pause it etc ugh
<neuro> i think someone has just revealed how they consume content ... :)
<mapps> netflix or lovefilm clearly
<mapps> ;p
<mapps> although perhaps that excuse wont fly in this case:)
<neuro> indeed :)
<mapps> been having terrible sleep recently..got this annoying cold/flu i reckon i must be coughing and waking up sleep 1/2hrs wakeup etc managed to sleep for i think abou 5hrs continuous 430-930am then wokeup and cant get back to sleep!!
<neuro> night nurse
<mapps> gonna get some nytol / strepsils / some other stuff and just hope that fixes it :D annoying thing is you cant buy too much of that stuff they limit it..so i never have any left when i need it
<mapps> ah yea
<mapps> night nurse good idea too
<diplo> Go into one shop, then go to the next and buy the extra, or... go to tescos.. go to one line and then walk back in and go to another
<diplo> I've had to do that before
<diplo> Or just go to a proper pharmacy
<mapps> yea il have to do that..just a bit annoying :) else il need some nytol and have none left;/
<bigcalm> Rackspace have a sense of humour, who's have guessed it?
<bigcalm> SMTP -> FROM SERVER:250 Great success
<bigcalm> CLIENT -> SMTP: quit
<bigcalm> SMTP -> FROM SERVER:221 See you later. Yours truly, Mailgun
<mapps> lol what are you trying to do
<bigcalm> Not trying, succeeding - Rackspace cloud accounts have access to Mailgun. Giving us 50,000 emails per month
<knightwi1e> hey everyone
<mapps> hey knightwi1e
<MooDoo> hullo
<neuro> bigcalm: o rly
<knightwi1e> hey MooDoo mapps
<bigcalm> neuro: rly
<neuro> i'm annoyed we're not a rackspace customer now
<neuro> that would be useful
<bigcalm> It even has full logging of outgoing emails in the web interface
<bigcalm> Yay for debugging
<neuro> yeah, i've been looking at it to replace our existing mailshot infra
<mapps> what do you use mailgun for
<neuro> iirc it's cheaper than mailchimp
<bigcalm> mapps: in this instance, sending email from one of our test servers
<mapps> but couldnt you do that without mailgun
<bigcalm> Things have a tendency to fall over until you use a recognised mail server
<bashrc> exim worked for me
<shauno> sending mail is easy as pie, but most the planet will refuse it until you meet a checklist as long as your arm.  Using a relay that's already jumped those hoops saves a lot of trouble on ad-hoc servers
<bigcalm> Sure, but the server you're sending from might end up in a spam list for some reason. Or a new server uses a recycled email address that is already in a black list
<bashrc> http://freedombone.uk.to/#sec-4.10
<bigcalm> What shauno said
<shauno> I had a mess a few months ago when gmail started requiring rdns on ipv6 connections, where it hadn't previously.  so even once it's working, it can still explode
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...myself and some friends are in the process of setting up our own email servers. Even using a realy (VirignMedia, run by Google) isn't reliable. Emails get silently dropped.
 * neuro just did a mailgun quote
<neuro> ouch
<TwistedLucidity> s/realy/relay
<neuro> cheaper than mailchimp though
<bigcalm> neuro: see if SuperMat1 can get you a discount ;)
<neuro> hehe
<SuperMatt> I won't be able to get discounts for anyone but myself
<neuro> cop out :)
<SuperMatt> people keep asking me for discounts :(
<SuperMatt> I haven't even started yet!
<Seeker`> SuperMatt: what is it you will bedoing?
<SuperMatt> I will be a Linux Adminstrator Level 1
<neuro> LEVEL 1 ... FIGHT!
<Seeker`> SuperMatt: does that mean "someone who gets coffee"?
<SuperMatt> meaning I'll be helping people with their problems, and helping design their infrastructure
<SuperMatt> I hope not
<neuro> it means you have to automate the coffee making and retrieval process
<MooDoo> https://major.io/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/boromir_rackspace_job.jpg hee hee
<MartijnVdS> HTCPCP ?
<neuro> HTTPGPGTLSLMAOGTFROFLCOPTER?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: RFC 2324
<neuro> RFC UR MOM
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: turns out that was wrong ;)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ?
<SuperMatt> one does simply get a job there
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that's horrible - far too specific to pots.  how american.  I need properties for shot time, pre-infusion, temp, etc ..
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it has a response code for teapots
<shauno> but .. but .. my espresso machine.  my precious!
<Myrtti> Moka pots ftw
 * MartijnVdS just has a kettle and a tea pot
<shauno> there's actually a lot of people mating arduinos to the machine I have.  <3 toys
<neuro> output from the world's most childish browser extension: http://www.flickr.com/groups/cloud-to-butt/
<neuro> a chrome extension that changes all instances of "the cloud" in a page to "my butt"
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> neuro: why yours?
<neuro> not mine, "mine"
<bashrc> is your butt in the cloud?
<neuro> is yours?
<bashrc> yes, I do all my back end stuff there
<wheels123> hi hi
<shauno> neuro: I have that installed at work.  it's fantastic when I've been away for a week and it slips my mind
<neuro> :)
<foobarry> why can't tradesmen ever turn up on the day you ask them?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9PdeZGWiek
<popey> original bungle was creepy
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Get better tradesmen
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> i saw ep1 of rainbow other day
<foobarry> i said bungle is scary
<foobarry> father in law walked in room. said "bungle is scary"
<foobarry> son stopped dancing and looked at us
<foobarry> "bungle is scary"
<bigcalm> For czajkowski http://cheezburger.com/7984699136
<Myrtti> ih â¥ http://professorfonz.tumblr.com/tagged/my+sherlockian+knits
<popey> syncthing is todays discovery
<popey> tis quite nice
<MartijnVdS> popey: what does it sync?
<popey> whatever you put in the sync folder
<popey> between machines
<popey> like btsync
<MartijnVdS> ah, that kind of sync :)
<popey> yeah, replacement for dropbox etc
<popey> kinda
<wheels123> how do i auto accept java's EULA from the terminal im trying to automate the install of some pkgs
<wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720696/ is what im putting together
<TwistedLucidity> Does it have to be Oracle Java? Would openjdk (or whatever it's called) suffice?
<wheels123> as long as java plugins for firefox work im not fussed
<TwistedLucidity> openjdk installs icedtea (plugin for Firefox). They should work OK, so long as you have no speific requirement that demands Oracle Java.
<TwistedLucidity> Dunno if this is still valid: http://www.tikirobot.net/wp/2009/01/12/how-to-automate-installs-of-sun-java-6-on-ubuntu-using-cli/
<TwistedLucidity> wheels123: And this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/190582/installing-java-automatically-with-silent-option
<diplo> Just looked at syncthing popey, did you try it yet ( I see it's in early stages )
<diplo> Might give it a go tonight at home
<popey> i am running it now
<popey> synced a few GB between 3 machines just fine
<wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720696/ also this is what im working on surely i dont need to sudo for adding every repo?
<popey> although it can slow the machine down a bit when it's going nuts
<TwistedLucidity> wheels123: you do I think; I've always seen in expressed that way. Not sure if sudo can accept multiple commands.
<TwistedLucidity> You will, however, only be challenged for the password the first time.
<popey> run the script under sudo
<TwistedLucidity> Or that
<popey> and remove all the sudo's from the file
<popey> given you need sudo for every single line
<wheels123> im sort of a noob
<popey> out of interest why do you need oracle-java7-installer ?
<diplo> I want to sync my parents Windows PC, was going to try rsync under cygwin - tested at work and works ok
<shauno> if you're interested in some back-seat-driving, I'd look into 'mktemp' rather than naming /tmp/newfile.  it probably won't make an ounce of difference to you now, but it's a good habit to get into
<wheels123> popey: some of the websites i visit use java for chat rooms ect although im sure openjdk will work fine
<popey> i thought webupd8 had to remove oracle from their ppa
<popey> or did they add a script which download and installs it?
<wheels123> yep
<wheels123> hehe
<popey> k
<wheels123> shauno: so how would i implament mktemp into the script im still a bit of a newb at scripting
<shauno> usually I'd do something like MYTMPFILE=$(mktemp), and then pipe to $MYTMPFILE, mv $MYTMPFILE to the destination, etc.  it's just a tidy habit because it means you don't have predictable names that could lead to intentional or accidental collisions & such
<popey> anyone want a laser http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oxford-Lasers-CU10-Copper-Vapour-Lasers-x2-one-working-one-for-spares-/171211877471?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: All you need now is a couple of sharks....
<popey> pew pew
<wheels123> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6720797/ made some of the edits relating to tmp file usage but idk if i wrote it correctly
<shauno> it looks convincing :)  but feel free to completely ignore me if it's cleaner to deal with one complication at a time
<wheels123> hehe the running under sudo bit confuses me
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yes then world domination will be popey's........wait no bond always arrives and messes up the bad mans plans right
<MooDoo> hello davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: hello
<MooDoo> davmor2: how am ya geezer?
<davmor2> MooDoo: good ta, you cockney pearly king you.  How am ya?
<Myrtti> I totally misread that
<Myrtti> *krhm*
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'm fine :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: I don't know how that could possibly be misread :D
<daftykins> oh Sony, why do you do the things you do?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: because Japan?
<daftykins> their VPCCA and VPCCB laptops use the Atheros AR3011 bluetooth chipset, only the *only* way to install the driver is before *anything* else at all (under Windows)
<daftykins> any other point in the process and it won't work
<daftykins> :>
<MartijnVdS> really? wow.
<daftykins> yep, it's a quirky one
<foobarry> a user is asking me for a server's portal number. what's that? port number?
<daftykins> amusingly i wrote it up on my own site and even provided the correct driver (Sony's website gives you the wrong one)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: probably.. what are they tring to do
<daftykins> but i didn't realise i was working on practically the same laptop model :>
<foobarry> either use ssh or opennx, either way, ports are the default ones
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: how hard can it be to provide a proper driver package.. most vendors do that now
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: not sure, they give a broadcom driver instead XD
<daftykins> i should edit my post to reflect both models really
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: doesn't the driver install through windows update? :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Broadcom's driver does
<daftykins> nah it has no idea
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/?p=192
<daftykins> whopping 100+ MB driver too
<MartijnVdS> "Let's ship an entire custom bluetooth stack" then
<bigcalm> A Rackspace person replied to my ticket with "Thank you for reaching out to us." - made me feel sorry for them
<foobarry> for talking in american?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: they wanted to get together and touch base ;)
 * bigcalm grumbles
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> I forgotten how to unsub from a mailman list. Anybody remember?
<popey> look at the header
<popey> it has the subsub email address in it
<bigcalm> Ta :)
<bigcalm> Yay, let there be fewer emails in this world
<bigcalm> Removed myself from a LUG I attended once about 2 or so years ago
<bigcalm> Wow, 2010
<dwatkins> Just reply-to-all with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body, it won't unsubscribe you, but the responses will be fun...
<dwatkins> ...then an admin will probably take you off the list anyway
<bigcalm> dwatkins: seen a lot of that over the years
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yeah, I'm also thinking of the recent Cisco and Microsoft (iirc) incidents of exponeitially increasing e-mail due to read-reciepts, reply-to-all and out-of-office automation
<dwatkins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/19/cisco_reply_all_email_wastes_tons_of_man_hours/ and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/23/reply_all_email_storm_strikes_twice_at_cisco/
<shauno> not entirely sure why that hits el reg; that happens *Everywhere*
<BigRedS> I'm amazed each time there's a story like this. Do people really use their desktop mail clients to email propaganda to their customers?
<shauno> anywhere it can happen, it has & will
<dwatkins> I think because of the sheer size of these incidents.
<BigRedS> well, and the expectation that MS and Cisco know how to use a computer
<mapps> all stocked up
<mapps> stepsils/night nurse/nytol
<mapps> so if i can sleep tonight il just take everything :D
<mapps> obviously..i wont really :)
<daftykins> tut tut!
<dwatkins> I tend to put whisky in my lemsip.
<mapps> hm my battery on my old dell 1501 finally given up completely..red light indicator and unplug it..dies i8nstantly
<mapps> been dyinbg a slow death for years..it'd charge to like 3% LOL
<dwatkins> I'd replaced the battery in my Eee 901 with a larger capacity one, so when that died, I just put the original back in.
<dwatkins> Having a netbook as a server works quite well - it uses minimal power, and has a built-in UPS.
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> i use my netbook mainly for irc and when i go abroad..cba taking my 15inch laptop
<mapps> i only travel with hand luggage too..so netbooks better
<mapps> ive got the samsung nc10 - had it years and it's pretty much run 24/7 since i got it:P
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-09-165752_1046x664_scrot.png
<Azelphur> high score! \o/
<daftykins> :OOOO
<daftykins> packets: rejected
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> is it actually functional?
<daftykins> for say, IRC
<Azelphur> yea, I'm talking to you through it now
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> just some amazing throughput? :D
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> right lets see if i've waited too long to accept this new boiler quote
<daftykins> ooh yes just about :)
<daftykins> don't really want to drop 2 grand on a boiler =/
<daftykins> but i should get it sorted
<dwatkins> hooray for tcp/ip
<Azelphur> hehe
<mapps> :(
<Azelphur> I switched speedtest.net to kbits because I was interested to see what the actual number was
<Azelphur> answer: 8 and falling.
<daftykins> rawr!
<Azelphur> answer: 6 and falling xD
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: If it's a decent brand of boiler and trustworthy installed; yes you do.
<daftykins> TwistedLucidity: it'd be a Vaillant condensing boiler installed by the local company with the imaginative name - Guernsey Gas
<TwistedLucidity> Never had a Vaillant unit, only ever Vokera and Worcester.
<TwistedLucidity> Getting a local trader is good; they want to keep people sweet.
<TwistedLucidity> Unlike large companies who just run a numbers game.
<daftykins> well they're the local gas supplier too
<daftykins> i'm getting rid of a Vokera!
<TwistedLucidity> I will avoid talking about British Gas as this is meant to be a family friendly channel
<daftykins> it's not holding pressure at all and i'd been advised to give up on it
<TwistedLucidity> Vokera are OK, but everything ages out in the end.
<TwistedLucidity> How old is it?
<daftykins> some peeps i've had out claim 10-15yrs
<daftykins> i've only been in this place since last March so i have no definite record
<daftykins> it's a Vokera Linea 24
<TwistedLucidity> That's not *that* old, but not that unusual either. And you have no way of knowing how badly it's been treated.
<TwistedLucidity> My Vokera died after about 17 years I think.
<TwistedLucidity> It would have been fixable *if* the parts will still made and all the mechanical/boiler parts were fine; it was just the PCB.
<daftykins> ah, expansion vessel is gone here and after that probably the pressure release valve too
<daftykins> so given what that'd cost for labout, easier to give up
<daftykins> plus i don't even have any controls inside the house at the moment
<TwistedLucidity> Yeah - sounds it. Do you qualify for the scrappage scheme/green subsidy; whatever it's called?
<daftykins> i'm not in England so if that's a government thing nah, can't get it
<TwistedLucidity> Ah - didn't know if it worked out there or not.
<daftykins> we have LPG here too D:
<daftykins> none of that real gas like in England :<
<TwistedLucidity> Well with the way things are going, England might not have "real gas" for much longer.
<daftykins> o rly
<MartijnVdS> we have a huge deposit. Want some? :)
<TwistedLucidity> If the reports are true (and I don't see any real reason to doubt them) then we are running perilously close to the wire. Add to that a chronic under investment in energy security (e.g. nuclear) and the plan to privates the security-critical fuel supply pipelines....perfect storm anyone?
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: If we eat enough beans, we'll ALL have huge deposits! :-)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they can always fire up the coal mines again :)
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I'm not totally sure of the lead time to bring a coal station back on line. We should have been investing in nuclear. Not a great solution I grant you, but the least bad (until we find a better one).
<AlanBell> TwistedLucidity: there are several different kinds of running out, and we have more gas than other stuff really
<AlanBell> especially if we start fracking at scale :/
<MartijnVdS> and you can always re-nationalize ;)
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: You are Ed Milliband and I claim my Â£5.
<AlanBell> I think during our lifetimes there will be gas/electricity blackouts
<AlanBell> and petrol stoppages again
<MartijnVdS> borrow some from the US
<bashrc> sadly, I agree.  There is little foresight on that stuff
<TwistedLucidity> AlanBell: I think you are right. It's one thing to have the gas/petrol, it's another to be able to generate from it.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh no...I just created a slew of project tasks and they have vanished into the ether. :-(
<bashrc> there is often a belief that "the market" will somehow solve geological problems
<bashrc> magical thinking
<Azelphur> daftykins: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-09-175244_1047x660_scrot.png in kbits, lol
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: Outsource the Earth! Then we can set an SLA. Problem solved.
<Azelphur> been running about 40min now
<TwistedLucidity> What really grates my carrot is things like "Going green will ruin the economy!" Well, if you are a gas supplier; yes, it might ruin your business. If you refuse to change; yes, you might have problems. If we don't invest in the tech; yes, it can't meet demand.
<TwistedLucidity> But the "We're all doomed!" argument only holds if you flap around and don't fix the issues. "Oh look, wind power fluctuates; if only we could store it....make methanol from the excess production? Then burn that in a turbine? Or batteries? Hmm...our batteries are really terrible; let's fix batteries first."
<TwistedLucidity> If a company is willing to adapt/invest, I'd say going green offers many opportunities over and above PR.
<TwistedLucidity> Tesla, for example, probably won't make much money from their cars. But their batteries? Kerr-ching!
<bashrc> the problem is that companies don't think long term
<daftykins> Azelphur: cor!
<Azelphur> xD
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: That's true. This kind of "blue sky, long term, holistic gains" type thing is probably best done by governments. I give you the Internet as but one example.
<bashrc> if there is an achilles heel of the economy it's short termism in the face of problems requiring long term changes
<bashrc> nuclear energy is one manifestation of that (i.e. there are no immediate profits to be made)
<daftykins> now now everyone, converse in short-hand so Azelphur's connection can keep up! ;)
<Azelphur> hahaha
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: The other things is, you have to through about 20 solutions at a problem to get (maybe) one that sticks. That's a lot of failure. Of course, knowing 19 ways to not do something isn't exactly a failure, but it will be spun as such for short-term political gain.
 * TwistedLucidity has found his project tasks. One has no idea why they got filed there, but at least one doesn't have to re-create them!
<TwistedLucidity> And, of course, the IT should be run on F/OSS so the entire planet can benefit!
<MooDoo> evening all
<TwistedLucidity> And that's why it's all MooDoo's fault.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, hello.
<TwistedLucidity> :-)
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: always my fault, but then it's fixed with a sudo apt-get --purge remove TwistedLucidity  ;)
<TwistedLucidity> Pfft. :-D
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> quiet this evening?
<TwistedLucidity> Project management. :-(
<MooDoo> booo
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: almost gym o'clock
<TwistedLucidity> Trying to estime how long it will take to do a thing when we don't have have a back-of-the-envelope design for it. I hope they like the range "2 days - 5 lifetimes"
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I know those estimates :)
<MartijnVdS> it's why I love that at my current job we actually do 2-week sprints and *everything* is incremental :)
<MartijnVdS> with 3-month releases
<TwistedLucidity> Not too different here, slower cadence though. But it's bigger/breaking changes so that's not a bad thing.
<MartijnVdS> ! http://i.imgur.com/OE0kWMt.jpg
<lubotu3> MartijnVdS: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<TwistedLucidity> And I'm a stickler for unit tests. If there is no unit test, it's wrong. If you can't unit test it, it's designed/written wrong.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: exactly. Though old code doesn't have as many tests as I'd like
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, but if you touch a class you make yourself responsible for it. It's kinda nasty but is seems to be working. What's scary is the amount of "stuff" that creeps out.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: yeah. except it doesn't really work like that when clients are paying for your time :(
<TwistedLucidity> Support calls are a cost, we don't want support calls.
<MooDoo> we don't do telephone support, all done via a ticketing system
<TwistedLucidity> So we sometimes decide to take a hit on the dev and make it back elsewhere. "Â£1 here will save Â£2" there kinda thing.
<MartijnVdS> yeah, so do we. But some of the old code is *really* hard to test :)
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: We have a ticketing system too, but when production goes down you get calls.
<MartijnVdS> as in: no proper frameworks, ad-hoc object creation everywhere
<MartijnVdS> we're fixing it, slowly
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Which is why it's getting torn apart and re-written.
<MartijnVdS> yes! :) exactly.
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: only sales have the telephone so they do take the hit occasionally
<TwistedLucidity> I'd say now we're about 20% new code, 50% old code and 30% "shim" code gluing it all together. As the old code goes, the shims get dropped.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, and a fair few comments like "Yes, we know this is broken - DO NOT FIX IT!"
<MartijnVdS> heh, I know those 8-)
<MooDoo> lol and a let's not fix bugs but release new features
<MartijnVdS> "The javascript frontend expects it like this, and the frontend guy is too busy fixing more urgent things"
<TwistedLucidity> Pretty much
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Don't start me on that one, just don't. I have maintained for years we should issue "Engineering Releases" that contain nothing but bug fixes/stability updates.
<MooDoo> lol :D
<MooDoo> or lets release updated to live, and not tell any one, until customers complain it's not working
<daftykins> that's ok, you just stop the ticketing system so they can't tell you!
<MooDoo> lol
<TwistedLucidity> And we could do it too. In fact, it would make many things soooooo much easier. Engineering Release, Feature Release, Engingeering.... This would also give the as^H^H^Hpeople in marketing the time to decide on what it is they actually want.
<TwistedLucidity> And not change their minds part way through delivery
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: that actually sounds like a great idea
<MooDoo> make it up as you go along is the best way
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: OK mr sales guy. Here's a git clone and a command line :P
<TwistedLucidity> It's not even that, it's when you get a requirement in, ask what a certain bit means and get the answer "Don't know; but can you make it work?"
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: we'll expect your pull request before the sprint closes ;)
<MooDoo> i'm management....delegation
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> employees able to pick up the phone to request others do their work \o/
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Our Pre-Sales and Sales teams can pull from what are if the nightlies should they so choose. However it has been explained to them in rather graphic detail what will be done to them should they ever call for support.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: we're a 10-person company.. everyone knows almost everything :)
<TwistedLucidity> Unless, of course, we've agreed to it before hand. Which often happens for big flashy demos. The whizzo feature lands in first or second build to meet the deadline, then the rest of functionality comes in later.
<gcj> hi all, I'm seeing some very weird wireless behaviour. My card is capturing traffic for channels it's not supposed to be on. It's like it's going into scanning mode without me telling it to. Anyone know if I can see which programs are sending commands to the kernel to change channel?
<MartijnVdS> gcj: how are you seeing that?
<gcj> MartijnVdS, when I create a monitor interface with "iw", and listen on it with wireshark, I see beacons occasionally for a different channel (channel 11 instead of 36)
<gcj> meanwhile the card stays associated with the AP on 802.11a channel 36 the whole time
<MartijnVdS> well the card does scan all the time
<MartijnVdS> wpasupplicant makes it
<MartijnVdS> it does that to see if there's a stronger AP to connect to (preferably one that's part of the same network)
<gcj> ah interesting, I will check wpasupplicant then
<gcj> the problem is that it interrupts live communications such as Skype and SSH when it goes to scanning mode
<popey> odd, never seen that
<gcj> i can see it every few seconds with mtr
<MartijnVdS> what kind of wifi chip is it?
 * daftykins nudges gcj ^
<gcj> MartijnVdS, it's an Intel(R) Centrino(R) Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
<MartijnVdS> using the iwlwifi driver? or something older?
<gcj> iwlwifi in 12.04
<MartijnVdS> gcj: you might be able to teach wpasupplicant to only scan 11a channels, so it isn't "off-channel" for so long
<gcj> the 2 minute channel switch is definitely wpa_supplicant
<MartijnVdS> but then you'll lose some roaming features
<gcj> yeah
<gcj> i wish I could make it do it less often, but it's not the main problem
<gcj> I'm seeing pauses every 10-15 seconds, most of them are not wpa_supplicant
<gcj> disabling WMM makes them go away, but then I lose all control of QOS
<MartijnVdS> maybe network-manager is doing its own scan?
<gcj> how would I tell if it is?
<MartijnVdS> gcj: open the network menu thingy, check how often it updates :)
<MartijnVdS> maybe easier to monitor dbus to be sure?
<gcj> any idea how I can do that? dbus always confuses the hell out of me
<MartijnVdS> gcj: dbus-monitor --session
<MartijnVdS> uh.. --system more likely
<gcj> thanks :) i'll give that a try
<gcj> the iwlwifi driver is also built with CONFIG_IWLWIFI_DEVICE_TRACING enabled, so I should be able to see everything the card is doing, if I can find out how
<foobarry> gcj: turn off power saving
<MartijnVdS> gcj: probably by fondling some file in /sys/module/ or /sys/devices
<gcj> the pauses don't seem to be connected to dbus events
<MartijnVdS> gcj: foobarry's suggestion could help
<gcj> iwconfig says "Power Management:off", is that enough?
<MartijnVdS> iwconfig is old & busted
<MartijnVdS> try "iw wlan0 link"
<MartijnVdS> or get power_management
<MartijnVdS> let me check the syntax
<MartijnVdS> iw wlan0 get power_save
<gcj> "Power save: off"
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> maybe the devices decides to scan all by itself? I have no idea :(
<MartijnVdS> maybe ask some linux-wireless experts on their mailing list?
<gcj> ok i'll try that :)
<gcj> thanks for your help
<popey> nexus 4 supports wireless charging out of the box doesn't it?
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> qi charging
<daftykins> yip i've got a cheapy wireless charger from amazon
<popey> ta
<popey> yeah, found some cheapo ones on ebay
<daftykins> popey: are you after one? i don't really use mine and so it could do with going to a new home
<popey> i need two
<daftykins> ah :(
<popey> well, ideally i need two
<popey> one is better than none â»
<popey> need to think about this
<popey> fact is I'll need to have the charger plugged in (just like I have the phone plugged in)
<popey> but also have a cable for doing adb debugging
<popey> so might actually be more annoying having wireless charging
<daftykins> ah-har
<popey> many thanks for the offer though!
<popey> very kind
<daftykins> np :)
<Myrtti> still kinda want http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/qi-wireless-charging-alarm-clock-with-bluetooth-speaker-light-wood-p42423.htm
<popey> Myrtti: i reckon you could make one of them
<Myrtti> I'm sure
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that's lovely
<popey> pi insde
<Myrtti> But How much value do I put on my own time
<popey> well, there's time and there's investment
<popey> i bought a couple of toys today â¨
<Myrtti> anyway silly late, gn
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300976411515?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-10
<shauno> diddledan: you about perchance?
<diddledan> ello
<daftykins> ah-har my fellow late nighters
<shauno> yeah, it's a bit suspect when you think there's a good chance someone will be here at 1am ;)
<diddledan> hehe :-p
<shauno> quick wp Q; I have a theme I customized for a friend a few years back.  I'm trying to bring it up to date, and I'm realising that my "pull it into my text editor and have at it" method doesn't update well
<shauno> what's the proper way to create a .. subtheme?  or at least what do they call it so I can google
<diddledan> child theme is the technical term
<shauno> hm, that looks like a darned good start
<diddledan> all a child theme requires to operate is a style.css which includes a standard wordpress style.css comment first-off which the addition of a line that reads something like "Template: parent-theme"
<diddledan> then you create files which override the parent
<diddledan> so if the parent has an index.php and the child also has one then the child takes precedence
<shauno> I can pull php into that too?  there's quite a few code tweaks too
<shauno> ah, cool
<diddledan> oh you'll probably want to pub an @include statement in your style.css to include the parent's css and then put your overrides below that
<diddledan> or is it @import?
<diddledan> I forget
<diddledan> probably the latter now I think of it
<diddledan> @include is a sass-ism I believe
<shauno> import, but yeah
<shauno> google seems to have coughed up enough to keep me busy for now :)
<shauno> my previous method was 'grep for comments that start with my initials', which was .. well it's helping, but still a bit blunt
<knightwise> hello everyone :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<knightwise> hey MartijnVdS ! ;-) Happy friday to ya ! :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: my vm got rebooted :(
<knightwise> No worries MartijnVdS :) It happens to the best of us
<MartijnVdS> https://forum.bytemark.co.uk/t/bigv-head24-outage/1769
<knightwise> Just finished a big project in my house
<MartijnVdS> you now have running water?
<knightwise> exporting ALL our music from iTunes and making it cross-platform accessible :)
<MartijnVdS> Plumbing?
<MartijnVdS> Electricity?
<MartijnVdS> :)
<knightwise> iTunesExporter + Samba share + Plex :)
<knightwise> Add a Sonos to the mix and .. Cross platform open source friendly music for the family
<MartijnVdS> sonos isn't really free though
<MartijnVdS> but: if your house is big enough to need multiple speakers -- cool :)
<knightwise> Not free , but also not hogging any data in a proprietary fashion
<knightwise> We have a sonos 1 downstairs. Might add one for the bathroom/bedroom in the future
 * knightwise is gonna have a quick breakfast
<MooDoo> morning
<Myrtti> mÃ¶h
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94Q6NhuS3A â¥
<knightwise> Plex seems to have a little trouble with my +15000 song database
<knightwise> music collention i meant
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<jussi> Im very happy it is friday
<jussi> :)
<TwistedLucidity> Anyone here using KVM?
<TwistedLucidity> Got a wee question about back-ups.
<knightwise> no :( I'm using virtualbox
<knightwise> anyone know anything about what happens when you put a network card in "host only" mode ?
<TwistedLucidity> It's only visible to the host, and ot other VM's running on that host in "host only" mode
<knightwise> ok , i'll try to explain
<knightwise> my host machine (running my vms) has 2 network cards
<knightwise> one connected to my internal network
<knightwise> one connected to my 'dmz'
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> i've setup a virtual machine that I have configured to connect to my network using the adapter that is connected to the DMZ network
<TwistedLucidity> Ah, you mean put a physcial card into "host only" mode; not the "host only" networking option?
<knightwise> (and I put that adapter in bridget mode)
<knightwise> bridgeD
<TwistedLucidity> Bridged to DMZ, gotcha.
<knightwise> so i want make absolutely sure that that VM doesnt talk to anything else EXCEPT the network connector that is tied to the DMZ
<knightwise> so do I select "bridged mode" or "host only ? "
<TwistedLucidity> Bridged.
<knightwise> ok,
<knightwise> because when I run etherape on that machine I do see some connections to my "internal" network going on
<TwistedLucidity> If you select "Host only" it will only be able to talk to the host and other "host only" machines on the same host.
<TwistedLucidity> "on that machine"? The host or the guest/VM
<knightwise> on the guest vm
<knightwise> the one I hooked to the DMZ connector and put into bridged mode
<knightwise> somehow it seems to talk to my host machine/network that is running my vms
<TwistedLucidity> It can talk to the host as the host is also on the DMZ.
<TwistedLucidity> If the guest can get from the DMZ to internal, isn't that just the host doing some routing?
<TwistedLucidity> I'm not a networking expert, so I could be talking out my hat.
<knightwise> yes , but not with the 172.16.50.0 address my guest is seeing
<knightwise> thats my INTERNAL ip range
<knightwise> ah holdon
<knightwise> I think its resolving that name from my DNZ network adapter
<knightwise> my machine is still "answering" on that interface too
<knightwise> you are correct
<knightwise> but there are no services published on that ip.
<TwistedLucidity> You could trying fiddling around with iptables to further isolate the guest, but I'm afraid I couldn't help you with that
<knightwise> no problem :) I'm thinking of moving that machine to an old laptop anyway. that way i'm 100 procent sure there are no "bridges" between both networks
<knightwise> just figured it out
<knightwise> the traffic its seeing is broadcast traffic from the DMZ interface from my host adapter
<knightwise> nothin to worry about :)
<TwistedLucidity> \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Peculiar People Day! :-D
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Happy #ubuntu-uk day to you too! ;)
<JamesTait> :-P
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> \o/ shipped https://www.tindie.com/products/Ryanteck/ryanteck-raspberry-pi-motor-controller-board/
<brobostigon> :)
<diplo> Got a project for it already popey ?
 * AlanBell is not feeling the love for pre-orders and kickstarters at the moment
<kvarley> How can I create a SFTP user that can ONLY read/write in /srv/mydomain.com ?
<dwatkins> treat it as a user with ssh access to a chrooted jail, I guess, kvarley.
<kvarley> Thanks dwatkins I'll check the wiki :)
<dwatkins> Alternatively, put their web root into their home directory. You could even put their logs into their home directory.
<AlanBell> it is built in now
<AlanBell> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/chroot-users-with-openssh-an-easier-way-to-confine-users-to-their-home-directories/
<dwatkins> I have an account on a server with multiple websites on it, each user has a 'www' and a 'logs' directory in their home, under which the domains and logs are stored for their domains.
<kvarley> The problem is it's an existing virtualhost so it has to be /srv/mydomain.com really
<dwatkins> ah ok, not so easy to change, then
<kvarley> I figured as much :P
<popey> diplo: ya
 * diplo buys one to open and close curtains in the morning/evening
<popey> its to go with http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648
<popey> want to make a little wireless robot which scuttles about the house
<diplo> AlanBell: Whats happening with the ubuntu pi cluster thing, lost track of what was happening
<diplo> looks fun popey
<AlanBell> diplo: we just got the rest of the money, so I will soon be ordering another batch of pi devices
<diplo> Quite interested to do that with my eldest, let me know how you get on
<AlanBell> and I am going to be organising a bit of a hack day
<popey> diplo: yeah, thats the plan
<popey> having a python powered robot in the house
<popey> will be interesting to see how long the battery lasts running pi + controller + motors + maybe webcam
<popey> might add some sensors to detect walls etc
<brobostigon> sounds interesting,
<diplo> Sounds great, my friend bought a remote device inc webcam to watch his kittens whilst he was at work and cost him Â£2-300
<awilkins> Why would you want to watch kittens via IP?
 * awilkins remembers lolcats and concedes
<diplo> I honestly didn't work that out
<diplo> :)
 * awilkins wonders if there is potential in having a webcam site that shows live streams of kittens
<awilkins> I mean, people will pay to see other things on webcams
<awilkins> Why not kittens
<popey> ooh http://www.gizchina.com/2014/01/10/leaked-photos-video-meizu-mx3-running-ubuntu/
<awilkins> Apparently this guy is good for Â£300 and a certain amount of footling, he could subscribe to cutekittencams.com for a mere Â£10 a month
<awilkins> Nice Chinese iPhone ripoff with Ubuntu on it...
<popey> hardly an iphone rip off
<awilkins> Apple will say so
<popey> its gigantic for one thing
<awilkins> Has curvy corners and a middly buttony thing
<awilkins> Apart from being gigantic it looks very iPhone
<awilkins> Is Ubuntuphone still a dual environment running Android as well?
<awilkins> Or is that more a manufacturers decision?
<jussi> looks more like a galaxy something :P
<popey> ubuntu phone never was dual boot
<popey> edge was
<popey> yeah, looks like those giant htc / samsung things.
<popey> dont like giant phones at all. still clinging on to my 4s
<popey> even iphone 5 and 5s are too big for me
<popey> i must have lady-hands
<awilkins> I'm rather fond of my slightly enormous Nexus 4
<TwistedLucidity> Harder to lose down the back of the sofa? :-)
<awilkins> Actually, without a case on it it's a slippery sucker
<awilkins> You have to be careful about putting it on *slightly* inclined smooth surfaces because environmental vibrations make it drift and slip off
<awilkins> And Gorilla glass is ace but the bezel must be made of VulnerableToDamageium
<jussi> I have abroken N4 and a broken galaxy note 2...
<awilkins> It's very nice without the case in the pocket - barely know it's there
<popey> yeah, broke my n4 within a few days
<popey> stupid frictionless back
<foobarry> stupid sexy flanders
<awilkins> But I have a case, every time I take it off I ding the bezel again within an hour
<awilkins> They should make the bezel out of that memoflex stuff they make high-end spectacles from
<jussi> awilkins: ++
<jussi> awilkins: did you see the new self healing back on some new LG?
 * awilkins has now googled it
<awilkins> Neat
<Myrtti> popey: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1046165765/egg-the-intelligent-cat-companion?ref=home_popular
<popey> golly, thats doing well
<MooDoo> wow
<foobarry> you ever get that thing where sometimes you speak and you hear a voice that doesn't sound like you?
<foobarry> lady in the shop asked if i wanted a receipt and i spoke and the voice sounded like moss "no thank you" from IT crowd
<foobarry> i don't usually sound like moss
<jussi> oooh, 4.3 arrived on the S3 :)
<foobarry> http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2014/01/08/pay-per-minute-cafe/
<foobarry> much hipster
<dwatkins> so trend
<foobarry> some overlap with OSS projects http://www.boredpanda.com/sharp-suits-worst-client-comment-posters/
<TwistedLucidity> Reads like a "pay by the minute" mini make/hack-space.
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Some of those are far too familiar....
<bigcalm> I need the help from somebody who knows how to play with files in a directory from the CLI. I need to touch each file in turn and sleep for 1 second between each one. That possible?
<MooDoo> can't you do a for file in ls? or something similar not sure the exact syntax
<awilkins> for F in * ; do touch $F ; sleep 1; done
<bigcalm> That's the thing, I don't know how to do those things from the CLI :)
<bigcalm> I could write it in PHP though :P
<bigcalm> awilkins: ta :)
<dwatkins> for i in * ; do touch "$i" ; sleep 1 ; done
<bigcalm> Ah, good point, might have spaces
<dwatkins> That's off the top of my head, bigcalm, but should do the job.
<awilkins> Pah, I just assumed that bigcalm was sensible enough not to have stupid file names with spaces  in
<bigcalm> awilkins: these are files that have been uploaded by a client...
<dwatkins> Never underestimate the ability of users to give things silly names.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: I read that as never underestimate the power of the dark side lol
<dwatkins> Users should be considered as evil, so that also applies, MooDoo.
<davmor2> dwatkins: you are dealing with bigcalm never assume!
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2 
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey the same rules applies to everyone else you just deserve it more :P
<davmor2> bigcalm: by the way that was a pretty funky pen but if I had it in my jacket pocket I would be terrified of ink leakage :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: one of the reasons why I don't usually take it out of my office
<davmor2> bigcalm: it seems to me to be the most attractively fundamentally flawed pen in the world though ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you hear about bigron?  back in a&e
<knightwise> exit
<bigcalm> davmor2: no, I didn't. Oh dear. I hope he's pulling through
<davmor2> bigcalm: seems he got dehydrated and his heart started playing up https://www.facebook.com/mel.wellsted?fref=ts
<bigcalm> davmor2: I don't have access to her page
<davmor2> bigcalm: Mel Wellsted Heart but dehydrated so in new x in reply to What is up with Ron ???
<Myrtti> I'm at the moment encoding files from mp3 to amr-wb and that's basically the syntax I use to go through the files...
<MartijnVdS> amr-wb? People actually use that?!
<Myrtti> sure
<Myrtti> brilliant for audiobooks
<Myrtti> since Nexus 5 doesn't support ogg speex
<MartijnVdS> Oh, I just use low-bitrate mp3
<popey> davmor2: would be proud, I'm listening to way a bit of 80's today http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc
<TwistedLucidity> "Jesus Jones", now there's some flashbacks.
<davmor2> popey: here have a biscuit for listening to the best decade of music
<MartijnVdS> *second-best
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Don't make me come over there, mostly cause I'll get wet and cold ;)
<foobarry> Channel 4 has removed all its full-length programmes from the video-streaming site YouTube.
<foobarry> It says it is directing viewers to its 4oD catch-up services instead.
<TwistedLucidity> So no 4od on Linux then
<marxjohnson> dammit
<TwistedLucidity> Sorry, "GNU/Linux"
<foobarry> no flash on linux soon innit?
<TwistedLucidity> Probably
<TwistedLucidity> Freedom haters
<marxjohnson> You can use the Windows version of flash with pipelight
<foobarry> no adobe flash anyway
<foobarry> marxjohnson: is that proven stable tech?
<marxjohnson> although milage varies
<marxjohnson> is anything? :)
<foobarry> until adobe stop flash for windows...
<popey> you can extract pepper flash from chrome too
<popey> no need for horrid windows flash
<popey> you can have horrid linux flash
<foobarry> i haz chrome
<marxjohnson> Orly?
<foobarry> but pepper flash isn't the same though
<awilkins> Does pepper flash work on Netflix? No, because that's Silverlight, <slaps self>
<awilkins> Need pepperlight
<marxjohnson> pipelight is a reasonably good solution for silverlight stuff in my experience
<popey> foobarry: isnt the same as what?
<foobarry> just checking...
<foobarry> pepper flash != adobe flash, i thought there were drm constraints, but maybe i'm wrong
<foobarry> vsphere web client works on pepper, so i'm happy
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Pepper flash IS a version of Adobe flash
<popey> just packaged differently
<foobarry> 4od no worky on rooted/CM tablets so fail
<TwistedLucidity> Well soon it will all be HTML5, so no need for Flash. But HTML5 with DRM, so no-go on GNU/Linux
<TwistedLucidity> And now that the MPAA has joined the W3C, the situation will only worsen.
<foobarry> why no go
<foobarry> its possible to do it, since chromebokos work with netflix
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: oh?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: Widevine Content Decryption Module - Versie: 1.4.2.404
<MartijnVdS> Enables Widevine licenses for playback of HTML audio/video content.
<MartijnVdS> part of my Chrome..
<TwistedLucidity> I might be mis-remembering then. But I thought HTML5 DRM'd video was dead on GNU/Linux.
<TwistedLucidity> For some reason
<MartijnVdS> well chrome has a plugin, no idea if it works, I don't know what "Widevine" is
<MartijnVdS> http://www.widevine.com/wv_drm.html
<foobarry> how do google ensure only chromebooks can run netflix?
<awilkins> You can do DRM on Linux quite fine
<awilkins> It's just a bit silly to implement it in open-source products
<awilkins> Because someone will just turn the code into a decrypter / DRM stripper
<diplo> foobarry: Isn't it a chip on their devices from memory
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe that's why I thought it was a no-go.
<awilkins> Maybe Chromebook + Netflix requires some kind of TPM interaction
<awilkins> Like you have to testify to the server that you are running the approved of stack with a signature
 * xnox loads up  Backstreet Boys into my playlist =)
<MartijnVdS> xnox: Why?!
<xnox> MartijnVdS: Never Say Never! And It's Friday Friday, gotta get down on Friday!
<xnox> http://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0
<MartijnVdS> (because you want it that way?)
<MartijnVdS> xnox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg
<dwatkins> Friday, Friday...
<dwatkins> xnox: you know she did this, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCzdpagXOQ
<MartijnVdS> there's a sequel now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCzdpagXOQ
<dwatkins> haha
<MartijnVdS> ^5 dwatkins
<dwatkins> I like that she takes the mickey out of herself a little in that, too
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5nfV3S7sqI
<xnox> dwatkins: omg =) she's grown up.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I bet she's sick of the word 'Friday'
<directhex> is it bad to start boozing at 3pm to help cope with all-day parenting duties?
<diddledan> directhex: it might be classed as being neglectful
<Laney> only if you don't share it with child
<foobarry> just watched sherlock, it was a bit silly
<diddledan> foobarry: I'm not sure it was any more silly than the original conan doyle version
<diddledan> but tbh it's been a while since I read it
<foobarry> the wedding one was based on a book?
<foobarry> has sherlock peaked already?
<directhex> peak sherlock
<directhex> sherlock production can only decline from here
<directhex> as new sources of sherlock are discovered more slowly than existing sherlock reserves are exhausted
<Laney> shale sherlock
<foobarry> sherlock fracking?
<directhex> deep-sea sherlock extraction
<Laney> sherlock spews into the sea, causing devastation to coastal communities and wildlife
<diddledan> foobarry: every episode so far has been based on the book of the same name
<foobarry> i think people have been drinking
<foobarry> it felt like a xmas episode
<foobarry> a bit silly, less effort, etc
<diddledan> I hate when sherlock spurts all over me
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> family friendly
<foobarry> The story is set in 1888. The Sign of the Four has a complex plot involving service in East India Company, India, the Indian Rebellion of 1857, a stolen treasure, and a secret pact among four convicts ("the Four" of the title) and two corrupt prison guards.
<foobarry> glad they haven't been glamorising the drug taking though
<diplo> I didn't like the last one that much, got bored with it :/
<foobarry> my wife watched it from outside the room through a crack in the door
<foobarry> because it was making her cringe
<awilkins> We want more Irene Adler
<awilkins> For painfully obvious reasons
<SuperMatt> So I'm writing an app which does everything using a key-value store in postgres. I've gotta admit, it really does feel really nice doing it that way
<SuperMatt> Oh, I know Irene Adler
<SuperMatt> aka Lara Pulver
<awilkins> ? Postgres does KV storage?
<SuperMatt> not reall, you have two tables to represent key-value
<SuperMatt> and that's all you have
<awilkins> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/hstore.html
<SuperMatt> Lara used to come in to my drama classes when I were a nipper
<awilkins> She was pretty awesome in "Robin Hood" as well
<awilkins> Although I feel she's probably now typecast as "feisty lady who holds her own with smouldering allure"
<SuperMatt> that's close to who she is in real life though
<SuperMatt> anyway, I'm not using hstore because I'd like to be able to use the same schema in mysql if I had to
<awilkins> Probably true of many actors
<SuperMatt> so I have two tables: objects and attributes
<SuperMatt> objects has two columns: id and type
<SuperMatt> attributes has id, key and value
<awilkins> Hmm
<SuperMatt> the ids then map
<awilkins> Is there a reason why you need the attributes as separate rows?
<awilkins> Indexing, etc?
<awilkins> Because this design doesn't really scale very well
<SuperMatt> schemaless databases
<awilkins> Wouldn't you be better off using a real K/V store?
<SuperMatt> well, you should talk to reddit about that ;)
<awilkins> I worked on an EHR app that tried to use this basic scheme
<SuperMatt> this is how *they* do it
<awilkins> We had prescription objects with 119 attributes
<awilkins> And blood tests and all sorts
<awilkins> It ground to a halt at around 10M objects because the selects on the attributes table were such a nightmare
<awilkins> THe only code I've seen that actually *reliably* provoked deadlocks from MSSQL
<awilkins> (for reference ; when the CEO proposed this model I said "that won't scale", but I was too junior at the time to be taken seriously)
<SuperMatt> strange, they way I'm imagining this going is that as long as the ids are indexed, I should be able to select anything by its id *really* quickly
<awilkins> Oh, yes, probably
<awilkins> You really want to put the FK to the object id as a clustered index if it will support that
<SuperMatt> I guess it might be a good idea to index the keys too
<SuperMatt> just so I can narrow down the attributes quickly
<awilkins> Our thing had an index on the CHAR(255) value column
<awilkins> It was painful
<SuperMatt> argh
<awilkins> You don't really need the primary key on the attributes table
<awilkins> Except for updates
<awilkins> You want the object ID field on the attributes table to be the organizing principle of the data if you can coax your RDBMS into doing it (e.g. a clustered index )
<awilkins> But I could just be talking academia depending on how many rows you are scaling to
<awilkins> What kind of insert performance you need, etc
<SuperMatt> indee
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> well, for now it's only in alpha
<SuperMatt> if I have to change it, I will
<awilkins> Hooray for Agile
<SuperMatt> well, it's just me working on it, so it's hardly agile ;)
<awilkins> What I hate is people who don't want to risk changing things that don't work
<awilkins> "We can't change it, it might break stuff.."    "IT DOESN'T WORK NOW...."
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<awilkins> Also, people who object to changes that would fix things....
<awilkins> "It's covered by unit tests"    "BUT WE'D HAVE TO DO A FULL SYSTEM TEST!!!"
<awilkins> (after they broke my screen-scraping interface by changing their screen layouts. Which they were explicitly told not to do.)
<awilkins> Wrote a regex-scraper instead of a column-matrix one
<awilkins> They reverted the change to their layouts instead
<Laney> someone recommend me some nice 2.1 PC speakers plz
<Laney> these ones have a really annoying hum that I can't take any more
<awilkins> This was for an "interface" that was clearly just something that programmatically drove a termainal
<awilkins> Hmm.
<awilkins> I have a set of 4.1 Creative ones that don't work properly anymore
<awilkins> But I've been a 5.1 headphones type of guy for years
<Laney> my headphones are ok
<awilkins> Mostly because exploding noises were disturbing the other occupants of the house
<bashrc> :)
<Laney> I'd like to be able to hear the world
<Laney> so I don't miss the phone, people at the door etc
<SuperMatt> Laney: Logitech
<Laney> these hummers are logitech
<awilkins> http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/speaker-headphones/21-speakers
<Laney> maybe cheap-ish ones though
<SuperMatt> oh, I've never had logitech hum at me
<SuperMatt> though I normally spend a fair bit
<Laney> I think they are a few years old
<awilkins> What I always wanted was a set that you could plug your phones into and switch over easily
<SuperMatt> Laney: how much are you looking to spend, and what kind of input will you be using?
<awilkins> Because crawling behind my PC to replace 5 x 3.5mm jack is bad for my blood pressure
<SuperMatt> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-980-000320-Z523-Speakers-Black/dp/B002MHYQJA/ <- this is the kind of money I would spend on 2.1
<Laney> yeah just 3.5mm
<Laney> I dunno, could spend a bit if it's really worth it
<awilkins> Never had something that uses the optical
<SuperMatt> optical ftw
<Laney> don't think I have optical out
<Laney> oh it does have spdif
<SuperMatt> well the one I linked to doesn't have spdif
<Laney> just checked round the back
<Laney> didn't even know it was there :P
<SuperMatt> well now you know you have spdif, you could go 5.1
<Laney> not sure it'd be worth it
<SuperMatt> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Z-906-Surround-Sound-Speakers/dp/B004MY4PU6/ <- I've got ones like these, but not this new
<Laney> I don't really play PC games, and this room is pretty small
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<SuperMatt> each to their own
<ali1234> any bash experts? i need some help with job control: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727253/
<Laney> $! just after you background a process contains that process's pid
<SuperMatt> I have no idea what you're doing
<ali1234> open the serial port, wait 1 second, write a string, close serial port
<SuperMatt> I really don't know :/
<ali1234> all i need to do is run a command backgrounded, then run some other commands, then kill the backgrounded command
<SuperMatt> could you not killall cat?
<ali1234> not really... what if i happened to be using cat forsometing else at the time?
<SuperMatt> or ps auxww | grep cat | awk '{print $2}' to get the pid?
<ali1234> i think i got it anyway
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Don't say that round me and popey,  popey tell him he is advertising the people killall cat :D
<SuperMatt> or not auxww, cos that will get all of them, maybe just ps
<SuperMatt> hahah
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6727309/
<SuperMatt> seems like it might work
<davmor2> popey: how is skye now?
<popey> sleeping â»
<foobarry> wow. chromebooks took 21% of US laptop market vs apple 4% last year
<popey> "Year of the Linux desktop"
<foobarry> http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/10/2014_chromebook_surge/
<foobarry> if you can bear to read register article
<foobarry> i noticed move from arm -> intel though :(
<foobarry> maybe lots of chrome sales were from people with laptops already ;)
<SuperMatt> chromebook = good 'kiddie's first laptop'
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> not for school kids though it seems, as they keep on requiring some proprieatry windows crap on occasion
<SuperMatt> ffs
<directhex> chromebook surge = overstated
<SuperMatt> although you can save as doc(x)? from google docs, right?
<directhex> traffic stats on ye olde steamose website, i have more than twice as many visitors with Windows Phone as ChromeOS
<SuperMatt> I've got to admit, I've never seen anyone using a chromebook in the wild
<SuperMatt> maybe d0od will be able to tell us how his visitor stats from omgchrome stack up against omgubuntu
<foobarry> easy to see, check facebook likes
<SuperMatt> good point
<SuperMatt> 1/11th the likes
<popey> foobarry: loads of kids at wifeys school have chromebooks
<AlanBell> I think I will be buying chromebook(s) this year
<diddledan> I wonder why google haven't suggested a chromeslate?
<diddledan> i.e. all the benefits of chromebook and all the benefits of tablet
<davmor2> diddledan: it's called android on a tablet
<diddledan> I don't see android as being the same thing
<Myrtti> boggis bunce and bean...
<diddledan> I was about to say the exact same thing, Myrtti
<Myrtti> diddlydoodiddledan ;-)
<DJones> Interesting report http://insights.ubuntu.com/resources/article/ubuntu-scores-highest-in-uk-gov-security-assessment/
<salutes> Genius , pure genius (since 2005 , no less !) :   http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/linuxiow
<salutes> Whoopsie wrong channel .
<SuperMatt> http://www.supermatt.net/2014/01/password-hashing/ <- this. yes or no?
<czajkowski> popey: Laney https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdpFhx1IUAIcGAA.jpg:large
<popey> ye olde
<directhex> related: anyone have any feature requests before sunday? i'm planning on tagging
<map|work> heylo
<daftykins> hi
<map|work> whatsup:D
<map|work> watching eastenders?
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> good lord no!
<map|work> O_o
<map|work> do you follow/listen/watch or whatever any podcasts ? I never really got into podcasts
<daftykins> nah i find i end up trying to do other things whilst listening, then don't actually pay attention :(
<daftykins> i can't just sit and listen to something
<map|work> hahaha that's kinda what I do too
<map|work> next question:D do you read any linux sites/magazines?
<daftykins> i used to watch LAS from jupiter broadcasting
<daftykins> but other than that nah i know of no news forms for it
<zleap> i have just pressed something in xchat that has detached the #dcglug chat window from the xchat progam any idea how to put it back please
<daftykins> but then i more dabble than i am a real big user of it
<map|work> you just need to drag it back into the main window i think zleap
<map|work> dafty dont you use ubuntu as your main OS for everydya use?
<daftykins> no sir
<map|work> ah ok, windows?
<daftykins> i have 3 Linux servers though
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> i mostly support windows + mac users
<zleap> file manu - attach
<map|work> ah
<zleap> i think
<map|work> what os do you 8use
<daftykins> mostly on windows 7 across my personal systems
<daftykins> actually you know i accidentally lied, i'm sat in front of my HTPC right now which is ubuntu
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> but that doesn't count so much since it's really just booting straight into XBMC
<map|work> what do you use linux for then
<directhex> daftykins, i get a mention in LAS :D
<daftykins> directhex: :O did they contact you about ye olde?
<daftykins> map|work: servers mostly
<directhex> daftykins, that's why i said a mention - they didn't contact me
<map|work> LAS?
<directhex> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/48407/fedora-20-review-las-s30e02/
<map|work> ahh thanks
<directhex> about 12:40
<daftykins> directhex: you always qualify things as if the words you use can only be interpreted one way, but language sir, is not a science
<directhex> daftykins, i try to be extremely precise with my language, but you are correct that it may not be interpreted that way
<daftykins> you could've been being modest :D but anywho exposure = good news \o/
<map|work> hm what servers do u run dafty? openVPN/apache/openFTPD/bind on my machine :D and it sounds so damn loud
<daftykins> mostly web and file serving
<daftykins> and since VMs are cheap - a dedicated VM solely for this IRC client 8D
<map|work> i always mean to mess about with making like a domain controller so like my windows machines all share same user/pass and home dirs mapped to linux server - you any experience with that
<map|work> tried it..and it didnt work right :)
<daftykins> well, i find any windows machines attached to a domain instantly slow down
<daftykins> plus it becomes a central point of failure setup
<map|work> ah
<map|work> central point of failure i agree..and agree but surely shared logins and userdir would be good?
<foobarry> fedora: http://i.imgur.com/Yd1oEUt.jpg
<daftykins> well, i have a local file server so my PCs are more like just clients already
<daftykins> ugh Doge needs to go away as swiftly as it came about :P
<foobarry> i do it to keep MartijnVdS happy
<daftykins> ;)
<map|work> oo[ps closed the window
<map|work> what a mug
<daftykins> foobarry: i'll let you off!
<map|work> so how would you do shared user/pass and userdirs?!
<map|work> or was the point you wouldnt?
<daftykins> nah i wouldn't see the need
<daftykins> it comes at too high a cost :)
<daftykins> although it could be fun to play with
<map|work> well surely thats what they do in unis?
<daftykins> doesn't Linux have its' own native directory services equivalent 0o
<map|work> hmm not sure, ive seen samba being used as a PDC with windows machines and shared home dir/user pass
<map|work> kerberos - whats that used for?
<foobarry> what do you want to achieve?
<map|work> well like a work/uni environment where you can logon to any machine with your l/p and its got the same homedir so the homedir must be mounted off the server
<foobarry> yep
<daftykins> yeah back in my uni department they were NFS mounts i think
<map|work> and it uses the l/p off server - just wondering how best to do it (i dont need to at all..just curious/interested/learning)
<foobarry> ldap, nfs, autmount
<daftykins> ah yeah LDAP
<map|work> ah so no samba PDC needed at all?
<daftykins> not if it's fully native
<foobarry> with linux clients?
<foobarry> not with linux
<map|work> with windows clients for now..
<map|work> could you do windows clients with ldap?
<foobarry> AD = ldap (kindof)
<map|work> ah
<map|work> so yes should work with linux and windows
<foobarry> samba can implement this but its a massive pain
<map|work> so if i used openldap/nfs/automount - it would work like i was talking? yea i tried with samba before and it never worked quite right..emoty home dirs after login lol
<foobarry> if you want full AD features like group policy etc
<foobarry> domain auth etc
<map|work> ah
<map|work> whats kerberos used for? sure ive seen that mentioned loads on my travels
<daftykins> pure authentication
<daftykins> afaik at least
<map|work> yea SSO i remember reading
<map|work> so not essential
<daftykins> nah it's just a mechanism for authenticating safely, with remote systems i think
<foobarry> you can use windows AD server for the win hosts, and add a couple of posix aatributes to the AD schema (this is supported) for the linux clients to auth against AD
<map|work> oh i thought it was single sign on..i dunno :)
<map|work> thanks foobarry il mess about with it later-like i say its just for interest/learning
<foobarry> hybrid environments are a bit sucky
<map|work> too much of a headache to do it now (stupid flu) :(
<foobarry> what ends up happening is companies get windows guys in to design the AD auth and they never consider non windows clients ever
<foobarry> man, the LAS guys just talk over each other at the same time
<foobarry> i can't bear it
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i mostly thought the guy on the left never got a word in ;)
<foobarry> not sure how up to date this is map|work https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryHowto
<foobarry> i think fedora can auth against AD out of the box for many versions now
<map|work> thanks foo
<map|work> SHERLOCK SEASON3 FINALE WILL MET THE INTERNET
<map|work> So says the radiotimes :)
<foobarry> http://www.webupd8.org/2014/01/enable-hardware-acceleration-in-chrome.html
<foobarry> thoughts?
<foobarry> need to remember to check this on my work pc
<map|work> will read in sec eating and watching enders:D
<foobarry> traitor
<foobarry> ;P
<foobarry> even 1ms of that programme depresses me
<map|work> lol
<map|work> im at work so it's ok
<map|work> someone just came in to speak to me and ive got this up and iplayer
<map|work> LOL
<map|work> working hard clearly :D
<foobarry> might have an early night
<foobarry> expecting baby to wake at 3am
<map|work> i think they cap the bw here now fs
<map|work> cant see it being browser related?
<map|work> i always get errors about insufficient bw
<map|work> although youtube's fine
<daftykins> errors talking about bandwidth? how odd
<map|work> when  i stream stuff off iplayer ya
<map|work> but it's working now in ffox
<map|work> 38mbs ping download 50mbit upload 10.6 clearly enough
<map|work> http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3222784378
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-11
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FKvQDZ3IWw
<daftykins> O_O
<mapps> quiet here last night
<foobarry> shh
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mapps> ;]
<dogmatic69_> popey: Got the 3700 router, but they sent a v4 :/
<dogmatic69_> does not work with open wrt
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: .. yet :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69_: which brand? TP-Link or Netgear? Both have 3700 models..
<MartijnVdS> or "both have models with 3700 in the name"
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: netgear
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: just installed dd-wrt which worked out the box
<dogmatic69_> I think open wrt is better thought from what I read, more like a mini nix distro
<dogmatic69_> one up side, the v4 has 128mb of space
<dogmatic69_> or ram
<dogmatic69_> MartijnVdS: any idea how I can setup virgin media -> ddwrt -> [pc's]
<dogmatic69_> will the internet just work like that?
<dogmatic69_> vm is 192.168.0.x and ddwrt is 192.168.1.x
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: Yeh that should work
<dogmatic69_> cool, will try quick. brb
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: The other way is you can put the VM box into modem-mode so that your ddwrt sees the external IP (I suspect that might break the wireless on the VM box though)
<popey> dogmatic69: yes
<popey> dogmatic69: thats how I have mine setup. virgin media super hub is setup in modem only mode
<popey> and the dd-wrt is the dhcp server
<popey> dogmatic69: i wouldn't do what you've done, with double nat, that will likely cause more issues
<dogmatic69_> \o/
<popey> â»
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: seems it works :D
<popey> dogmatic69_: can you see what I said above?
<dogmatic69_> now to figure out open wrt
<dogmatic69_> nope, missed it
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6732456/
<dogmatic69_> saw about the vm in modem mode. not worried about its wifi anymore
<popey> yeah, i wouldnt use the wifi on the superhub, its terrible
<dogmatic69_> ok, will switch that to modem mode
<dogmatic69_> the super hub is terrible :P
<dogmatic69_> worst lock down ever, could not even assign reserved ip's
<ujjain2> I am looking for a job in London, seems 90% of all jobs and everybody who calls me is from a recruitment agency :-(
<popey> whats wrong with using an agency?
<penguin42> popey: They're often pretty hopeless at figuring out what jobs to offer you
<popey> some are, some aren't
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> dogmatic69: I was fighting a problem with a SIP phone my employer had given me and it basically ended up with 'oh..you're on UK virgin media ....' and discussion about probably needing to put it into modem mode
<penguin42> (which I've not done yet)
<popey> yeah. i had to do that for my cisco sip phone to work
<penguin42> popey: This is one of the polycom ones, it works sometimes but otherwise it sometimes gets a 403 Forbidden back from what is apparently the SIP proxy, but the admins say they never even saw it
<penguin42> popey: In modem mode what happens to the wifi? Is it possible to get it to bridge the wifi onto the ether ?
<penguin42> anyway, time to pop out
<shauno> that sounds logical but is near impossible to setup.  if your wifi went right to the ether in modem mode, each client would be receiving an address from the isp
<popey> in modem mode the wifi on superhub is off
<ujjain2> i hate also toleo, often you spend so much time
<ujjain2> I just got blocked for 1 time writing wrong password arg
<ujjain2> made a duplicate account, even lost password didnÂ´t work
<Wobbo> How to let my ext4 usable in windows, i never used windows so i have no idea how to get it work
<Wobbo> Damm windows, why doesnt open source like ext doesn't work... lol Oh, what its from Microsoft! ? Haha
<mapps> anyone else on o2 broadband (bethere)
<mapps> seems incredibly slow  atm for me
<shauno> well that's going to ruin someone's day; just had a call from a site that 'accidentally' inserted an armored cable into the rear of a 500kW UPS.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: boom?
<shauno> it sounds like it's actually been surprisingly graceful.  I mean, dead, but gracefully so.  must have been a meaty cable
<shauno> smaller cables, screwdrivers etc tend to just evaporate
<MartijnVdS> well it was armored
<mapps> what does that mean inserted the cab;e into it?
<shauno> well, not where it's supposed to go, to put it mildly
<DJones> As in sticking your finger into a mains socket
<shauno> pretty much, but it sounds like they've hit the DC bar.  so somewhere around 4000 amps at 120V DC?
<shauno> oh, and for windows .. I think that's actually doable with ext2fsd.  I'm not sure if it does win8 or ext4 (but I may be out of date on either of those), but it's big-picture possible
<ali1234> shauno: do you ever get bored and cook hotdogs on the UPS?
<shauno> I'm .. curious how that'd work
<ali1234> you get two forks and you wire one to live and one to neutral and then you stick a fork in each end of the hot dog
<ali1234> then you turn it on
<ali1234> it's important to do the steps int he right order
<MartijnVdS> now try that on a European socket ;)
<MartijnVdS> 99% of which don't come with on/off switches ;)
<Myrtti> ohm sausage
<Myrtti> the most dangerous of snacks
<daftykins> i went for a ride to one of the island's south coast beaches today, at the bottom of a very steep valley
<daftykins> it also has #15 of the many coastal defences on the island
<daftykins> in this case to protect the islands from the French in ~1778 due to the ongoing fun with the US establishing itself
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoi1fp0dc6k33id/fermain.mp4
<daftykins> here's a wee video of the sea, plus the tower itself
<daftykins> you can't see it in the vid but you could see the French coast today
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> so that's looking to the east?
<daftykins> yep
<MartijnVdS> cool!
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh, what I'd like would be for the wifi ap and the modem to sit on one ether segment; I'd like the wifi ap to have a local non-routable IP; then the NAT box I set up on that ether could route out of the modem and NAT stuff to the wifi ap
<shauno> I'm not sure you'll find that possible.  I'm pretty sure it's either all-in-one mode, or modem mode.  there's no "and a half" between
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> sounds like you'd need at least: modem <-> router with 2 NICs <-> WAP on one + LAN on other
<shauno> if the wap can bridge, it'd just be modem<->nat<->lan & the wap sits on the lan.  but trying to use the wap out of the modem for that, would require two different routes on that device, and these home units just don't do that
<shauno> they're not designed for you, they're designed for my mum
<daftykins> XD
<penguin42> shauno: Nod
<daftykins> shauno: does your splendiferous DNS knowledge extend to the wonders if autodiscover subdomains?
<penguin42> shauno: Give me a shell damnit :-)
<daftykins> s/if/of/
<daftykins> penguin42: are you after segregating wireless and wired?
<penguin42> daftykins: ideally, but the two things I need more are 1) To get the external un-nat'd external IP to my own NAT box 2) I'd still like to have a wifi ap downstairs which that box conveniently has
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> yeah sounds like it'd be too painful to keep
<penguin42> daftykins: I'd be happy for my NAT box to do the routing for the wifi
<penguin42> anyway, I've come back with two finds from the local Currys clearance store; a 16GB Sandisk SD for 4.95 (whose box looked like it was run over) and a low end DAB radio for #9.99
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> hehe, i don't think you can get any DAB over here
<daftykins> probably the fault of the French, most things are ;)
<penguin42> you're not missing much
<daftykins> for example, Channel 5 was never broadcast over here
<daftykins> nah :)
<penguin42> hmm, Ch.5 has some stuff I watch
<diddledan> ok, contentious issue of the day: will the world be a better or worse place when dicky stallman pops his clogs?
<daftykins> i'm not even familiar with that name
<daftykins> oooh
<daftykins> heh, penny drops
<daftykins> that's far too rude sir!
<diddledan> rude?
<daftykins> yep
<shauno> stallman's kinda like boiling water.  it's not meant to be consumable, but does define that end of the scale.  as long as there's a scale, someone will be the definition
<daftykins> that's a very cunning explanation sir
<shauno> the bit that does worry me, is that I used to donate to the FSF, until I got tired of only ever hearing about them when they were trolling
<diddledan> I still do donate to the FSF
<foobarry> just discovered the second series of the bridge is on
<diddledan> really? I still haven't seen the first
<foobarry> episode 3....iplayer mad rush to see if ep1, 2 are available
<diddledan> is that the british or the original nordic?
<foobarry> scandy
<diddledan> aah
<foobarry> 1st series was epic
<diddledan> yeah the scandinavians are getting a really good rep for their crime drama right now
<foobarry> cos they can tell a story, unlike american troll tv
<foobarry> under the dome was 10 episodes longer than it should be, and they trolled everyone at the "ending"
<foobarry> etc etc
<Myrtti> I so want to watch the first series of that with the other half, but subtitles :-/
<foobarry> he needs finnish subititles?
<Myrtti> if that were the problem it would already be solved since my online PVR already has it with the Finnish subtitles
<foobarry> i watch most of my programmes with subtitles now because baby noise
<Myrtti> but he's a slow reader, bless him, so trying to read the subtitles robs the show from him
<Myrtti> I'm slowly introducing him to fantasy and science fiction books I read as a teenager through audiobooks
<foobarry> or american films they mumble a lot so if i'm on my own i'll slap them on subtitle
<foobarry> is he dyslexic?
<Myrtti> had eye movement / head movement ticks when at school
<foobarry> mrs foobarry prefers fiction aimed at younger ages for dyslexic reasons, since books require so much more investment for her
<foobarry> although she's read the bible start to end quite a few times, in quite hard language versions
<foobarry> so her willpower > dyslexia
 * penguin42 reads rather slowly as well
<foobarry> but she groans when i want to want "another french film"
 * penguin42 has probably only bothered with one or two foreign films
<Myrtti> yeah, I'd want to show a few Kieslowskis and some Finnish films
<foobarry> red > white > blue
<foobarry> > dekalog
 * penguin42 has just finished reading GEB again - probably do only a few pages a night
<diddledan> I'm a slow reader also
<penguin42> although some of GEB is hard going
 * MartijnVdS is not
<foobarry> if i find a fiction book i like, i completely devour it then get sad its finished
<Myrtti> GEB
<Myrtti> hold on
<Myrtti> I should know this
<foobarry> great English bakeoff?
<penguin42> Myrtti: Godel, Escher, Bach
<foobarry> gary eats barry?
<MartijnVdS> Gunther Enoch Bobby?
<diddledan> I want some of what you're got
<diddledan> you've**
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptonomicon
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: there's a minor character (mentioned maybe twice) with those initials :)
<foobarry> slow readers may find doctorows books easy going
<foobarry> i think they are a bit teenfic though
<MartijnVdS> Stephenson's books, not so much (maybe snow crash)
 * penguin42 notes that I read the last dialog in GEB on the same night I watched the start of the Matrix again; I'm thinking of doing a comparison of quotes
 * penguin42 never does fiction
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well as I say I don't read fast, and I've never found it worth putting the effort in to read fiction; I've probably read 4 or 5 fiction books in my life
<penguin42> maybe a few more when I was forced to read at school
<MartijnVdS> being forced to read at school made my reading speed go up
<MartijnVdS> *a lot*
<MartijnVdS> now people complain I read too fast
<daftykins> :)
 * penguin42 is on the look out for a good Genetics book to read
<diddledan> lol, that won't be hard going :-p
<penguin42> diddledan: Well I tend to read pop-sci, and I want a pop-sci genetics book that talks about all the neat bits rather than a text book
<diddledan> aah gotcha
<diddledan> a "fun look" at rather than a "nitty gritty"
 * penguin42 is about to re-read 'the language of the genes'
<penguin42> diddledan: Well I want the detail of the neat bits :-)
<penguin42> diddledan: I mean I occasionally read articles or stuff and come across things like  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holliday_junction    now isn't that neat?
<daftykins> wow
<diddledan> facebook has over a billion monthly active users
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dwek7dZDFN0
<Myrtti> oh wow
<Myrtti> http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2128356/#/play
<penguin42> wow what? says he seeing a popup in a language I don't know
<Myrtti> they're transmitting a LAN event finals and also to abroad
<diddledan> sounds sweedish?
<diddledan> oh, .fi finnish
<Myrtti> oh it's even in Tampere
<Myrtti> cool
<diddledan> oh the trollishness: http://gwan.ch/faq#license
 * webpigeon head desks
<ali1234> diddledan check this: http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Talk:G-WAN_vs_Nginx
<ali1234> all that posted in like 2 days. the author is clearly nuts
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-12
<diddledan> I think I want a pizza
<daftykins> at midnight :o
<diddledan> midnight feast :-p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i've been murdering twiglets all evening
 * diddledan sings the twiglet zone music
<daftykins> there was music!?
 * penguin42 murdered an Aldi chocolate Reindeer earlier - it was very nice (and cheap)
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
<diddledan> I love murdering chocolate creatures of all kinds
<Elions> popey: Are you there? I have a question I need to ask you
<diddledan> I killed a chocolate santa the other day
<diddledan> Elions: always to the left
<Elions> popey: What plugin do you use to post your podcast automatically to an RSS feed? I don't know if you remember me but i'm Azelphur's friend who was trying to set up a Bitcoin Podcast
<Elions> See, our RSS poster at the moment seems to make it impossible to put out podcast on Itunes
<ali1234> bitcoins?
<Elions> ali1234: Yup. Bitcoin
<ali1234> my favourite bitcoin website shut down today
<diddledan> :-o
<popey> Elions: hello
<Elions> ali1234: That's a shame. Which one was it?
<ali1234> good guy op didn't steal all the funds, so there's that
<ali1234> bitquestion
<popey> Elions: wordpress + podpress
<diddledan> bitcoins are a bit of a wild west atm
<diddledan> lots of early scams
<diddledan> it'll settle down I guess like the west did
<Elions> popey: Thank you. I was looking for it but wordpress' search engine is basically useless.
<diddledan> so we'll end up with all the beautiful people there making movies
<daftykins> Elions: the admin pages have a plugin search mechanism
<ali1234> that's the same thing
<Elions> daftykins: Yeah, that's the one I was using
<Elions> Anyhow, thank you very much popey. Sorry if I interrupted anything, mate.
<daftykins> oic
<ali1234> if you need custom wordpress plugins i can do write them for you
<Elions> ali1234: We're good for now, no worries.
<ali1234> Azelphur: i can turn my lights on and off with the g19 keys now :)
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/avr-433/blob/master/firmware/main.c
<ali1234> i probably made everyone's doorbell ring on my street while developing this
<ali1234> and all their garage doors open and car alarms turn on and off
<penguin42> what hardware is that?
<ali1234> http://www.quasaruk.co.uk/acatalog/info_QAM_TX1_433.html
<ali1234> the plugs are from maplin but they don't sell them any more
<ali1234> and the AVR board is a minimus32
<ali1234> also i used a RTL-SDR to look at the signals, with rtl-433, gqrx, and gnuradio-companion
<penguin42> oh that's tiny
<penguin42> (and cheap)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> the minimus board is also tiny and cheap
<ali1234> actually everything involved was cheap
<penguin42> I'd played with gqrx and the rtl-sdr but hadn't come across gnuradio-companion - I played with the rtl when stuff was still a bit touchy, I should try again
<ali1234> there is a fairly good ppa with it all now
<ali1234> gr-companion is like a drag and drop filter graph editor
<ali1234> it's not very easy to use
<ali1234> and it crashes a lot
<penguin42> oh, maybe I did use that - I certainly edited a gnuradio graph - but didn't have the patience to do anything smart with it
<foobarry> looks nippy out there today
<MartijnVdS> we're having clear skies, blue with bits of red
<mapps> yeas  foobarry
<mapps> its kinda cold
<mapps> when i walked back from the casino was cold;/
<MartijnVdS> Apparently it's 0Â°C outside here
<MartijnVdS> mapps: did you win? :)
<mapps> dont play really i just go for a beer
<mapps> horrible places
<mapps> the UKs lowest
<mapps> everyone there will tell you they 'broke even' or 'won a few quid'
<mapps> so casinos must operate on good faith;p
<foobarry> pink/blue skies out there, frost on the field and the car
<foobarry> you get free sandwiches in casinos to
<foobarry> can't imagine the beer is exactly great
<foobarry> i just had a sudden urge to play gribbly's day out on the archimedes
<foobarry> that was a hard game
<mapps> :D
<mapps> going to London Dungeons next week:D
<mapps> went to the amsterdam one on our ;last day there
<foobarry> i want a rasp pi to run RISC OS!
<foobarry> native
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads bottom of the page?
<foobarry> the "want" in that sentence was the rasp pi..i don't own one
<MartijnVdS> Ah, I assumed everyone had one (or several) by now :)
<shauno> why not?  I thought pretty much every had 3 or 4 by this point
<foobarry> i don't have anything with hdmi or dvi in the house
<foobarry> and i had a nslu2 already for my low power needs
<foobarry> i have a short term urge to play my old acorn games again
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: RPi also has Composite out
<MartijnVdS> don't know the quality of it.. but it exists
<foobarry> it happens occasionally and i faff around with the emulator and leave after a sub standard experience
<foobarry> yeah, prob no worse than the arch games quality for these purposes
<popey> morning
<mapps> morning popey
<mapps> going back home monday:D
<mapps> back to good net
<mapps> 75mbit ftc and 100mbit cable:D
 * mapps is stuck on 6mbit here;/
<mapps> gotta brave the underground on monday again
<mapps> ipad/netbook/nexus7 should be enough:D
<MartijnVdS> kindle?
<mapps> i have a nook:D
<mapps> ipad air/ipad mini/nexus7/dell xps12 miini/dell xps i7/samsung nc10
<mapps> those are my 'portables'
<MartijnVdS> mapps: XPS 12 with the rotating screen? :)
<mapps> and my beloved iphone 5:)
<mapps> yes sir
 * MartijnVdS has one of those.. yay work 8-)
<mapps> i buyed my dad one for his birthday also
<mapps> theyre expensive
<mapps> but nice
<MartijnVdS> I wanted the Ubuntu edition 13" but it was sold out at the time (just before the new model launched.. but I needed a work laptop to work on..)
<mapps> its a good quality laptop
<mapps> but
<mapps> its quite pricey..no?
<MartijnVdS> It is
<MartijnVdS> but I didn't have to pay, so it's good ;)
<MartijnVdS> I've disabled the touch screen though
<mapps> :)
<mapps> so iil be taking
<mapps> iphone 5/ipad air/ipad mini/nexus7/dell xps12/dell i7/samsung nc10
<mapps> that enough?
<mapps> for a week
<MartijnVdS> where? why? :)
<mapps> back to my fathers
<mapps> going home for a week
<mapps> to Surrey
<MartijnVdS> When I go away for a week I take my chromebook and my phone
<MartijnVdS> maybe my kindle
<mapps> aha
<mapps> when i go abroad
<MartijnVdS> xoom, work laptop and older VAIO stay at home
<mapps> i take my iphone 5 and my netbook
<mapps> becuse
<mapps> my big laptop is too big..i dont pay for luggage
<mapps> so i just use hold luggage :)
<mapps> so a netbook is better
<MartijnVdS> carry-on you mean.. hold luggage tends to cost money :)
<mapps> ahh yes
<mapps> sorry
<mapps> so hold is the pay ?
<mapps> hm
<mapps> carry
<MartijnVdS> The stuff take with you (hold in your hands) = carry-on
<mapps> i meant carry on plane
<mapps> yea
<mapps> my normal laptop takes too much space on my bag
<mapps> so i use my netbook
<MartijnVdS> The "belly of the aircraft" where checked bags are stored is called the "hold" 8-)
<mapps> aha so thats hold luggage
<MartijnVdS> Yes, this is weird ;)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i liked KLM
<mapps> they were good
<mapps> i used e-barcode thing
<mapps> i went to work and both printers were broken so i had no choice had it sent to my phone
<mapps> scanned it a manchester
<mapps> then on amsterdam someone came and looked at it
<mapps> but still really easy:D
<mapps> boarding pass on phones
<MartijnVdS> last time I flew, I went with Easyjet. Checked in a month before the flight 8-)
<mapps> haa yea with some u can
<mapps> but
<mapps> MartijnVdS,
<mapps> you flew KLM?
<mapps> they only let you check in 24 hour before
<MartijnVdS> no, EJ
<mapps> no i mean have you ever
<MartijnVdS> I flew to London City once with KLM
<mapps> still nice to be able to use your phone..ryan air dont let u...so if you forget the bordon pass you pays 70quid per person
<MartijnVdS> and to SF and back
<mapps> but with KLM i can checkin upto 30mins before flight..and there's free wifi at airports so could do it on my phone
<MartijnVdS> Ryanair makes it easy to make mistakes, and expensive to correct them
<mapps> ya
<MartijnVdS> and that's where they get most of their money
<mapps> yep
<MartijnVdS> "People are stupid" :)
<mapps> :D
<shauno> I've honestly never had a problem with ryanair
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Sure, if you read everything before clicking and check for typos in your name, everything is fine
<MartijnVdS> shauno: though in-flight drinks are on the expensive side.. but on a 2 hour flight shouldn't need too many drinks really
<shauno> is "I can spell my name" really a difficult bar to set?
<MartijnVdS> but most people just click through, mistype their names, don't see that luggage = extra money
<shauno> yeah, inflight purchases are actually their revenue stream
<shauno> the rest is high because to force people to double-check stuff so they need less staff
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Three people in front of me in the Easyjet line had to have their misspellings fixed. And were angry that they had to pay.
<MartijnVdS> I'm assuming Ryanair typo rates are similar
<shauno> well trained customers = cheaper customer service
<MartijnVdS> sure
<MartijnVdS> though the relative luxury of that KLM flight to San Francisco is nice :)
<shauno> well yeah, I wouldn't want to go that far with bargain basements
<MartijnVdS> They just put the drinks cart somewhere and made it a self-serve bar 8-)
<shauno> there was an outfit a few years back doing london to hong kong for 75GBP.  that both interested & terrified me
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I'd figure out a way to get sleeping pills before boarding that
<MartijnVdS> wake me up when we've landed
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<shauno> I guess I'm just glad for ryanair because they've led me on a lot of strange trips that wouldn't have happened otherwise
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<penguin42> Hey BC
<dogmatic69_> what can I use to monitor traffic on my network?
<dogmatic69_> eg: usage by user / sites etc.
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: It depends a bit how your network is setup and what you want to measure
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: When you say 'by user' is that which particular machine or a particular logged on user?
<dogmatic69_> ye, machine / ip
<dogmatic69_> just simple home network with router -> machines
<dogmatic69_> I guess something like bind on one, with the router configured to use it as dns?
<dogmatic69_> mostly what machines are accessing
<penguin42> ok, so by IP isn't too bad
<dogmatic69_> ye, everything has a static IP address
<penguin42> there are things like iptop that you can watch current behaviour; longer term recording hmm not too sure
<dogmatic69_> something like ntop?
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: If you force stuff through a squid cache it's easy to record what urls are being accessed
<penguin42> yeh like ntop was what I was thinking of
<dogmatic69_> not sure if that can do network wide?
<dogmatic69_> squid cache?
<penguin42> dogmatic69_: squid - it's a http cache
<dogmatic69_> ok
<dogmatic69_> does ntop cover the whole network?
<penguin42> it covers what that machines network can see
<ali1234> hmm.... i appear to have found a bug in systemd
<penguin42> report it/fix it
<dogmatic69_> penguin42: just installed ntopng. awesome compared with last version...
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-utils/+bug/1268301
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1268301 in alsa-utils (Ubuntu) "udev alsa restore restore rules are broken" [Undecided,New]
<penguin42> ali1234: Hmm that's going to cause some fun behaviours - now search for all bugs where people are finding the sound on one card doing something odd
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> i'm testing if it happens in fedora
<ali1234> i don't see how it can be anything other than systemd/udev causing it, because nothing else involved has changed - not even upstream
<ali1234> fedora avoids the problem by not using that $attr{} construct at all
<ali1234> systemd tests take ages to run :/
<ali1234> it's impossible to search for any real information about systemd because of all the blog posts complaining about it
<penguin42> yeh - my experience so far is it generally works quite well
<ali1234> $attr substitution doesn't work on fedora either :/
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<penguin42> ali1234: Is that supposed to be $ATTRS{number} ?
<ali1234> penguin42: no. that is something totally different
<ali1234> it's not supposed to be $ATTR{number} either, which is also a different thing
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh, it does conveniently have the value 0 :-)
<ali1234> yes but it won't be accepted by the format string parser
<ali1234> it will just be passed through verbatim
<ali1234> one way to make the script work is by just putting $number
<ali1234> but $attr{number} is supposed to work according to the documentation
<penguin42> now is it the docs or the code that's wrong?
<ali1234> that's what i'm trying to figure out
<penguin42> I suggested the ATTR{number} because that's the format udevadm info prints it in
<ali1234> $attr does something different
<penguin42> are you sure? the stuff from udevadm looks like the sysfs files of the same name
<ali1234> yes it is
<ali1234> that's where it comes from
<ali1234> try it if you don't believe me (i already have)
<penguin42> no, I'm fine to let you find the potholes
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6739002/ <- put that in /etc/udev/rules.d/99-test.rules
<ali1234> then sudo udevadm control --reload-rules
<ali1234> then udevadm test --action=add /class/sound/controlC0
<penguin42> ali1234: Is the problem here that you're doing it on controlC0 rather than the card0?  There is no number file in /sys/class/sound/card0/controlC0/   but there is in /sys/class/sound/card0 ?
<penguin42> so it's right, there is no number attribute on controlC0
<penguin42> and $attr only says to use an entry from a parent device if a previous KERNELS/SUBSYSTEMS/DRIVERS/ATTRS tests selected a parent
<foobarry> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-12-04-Is-More-Secure-Than-Windows-8-and-Mac-OS-X-Says-UK-Goverment-416016.shtml
<foobarry> http://insights.ubuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/UK-Gov-Report-Summary.pdf
<directhex> it's that time again! :D
<penguin42> MS license price negotiation time?
<directhex> Latest release: Release4 (2014-01-08u1) (released 2014-01-12)
<directhex> i should probably sleep more...
<directhex> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:5be21a7a4f4b919e13f65eef113a8bc97e037ad0&dn=yeoldesteamos-release4-20140108u1.iso&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce
<popey> got a normal torrent url pls?
<directhex> http://retro.apebox.org/yeoldesteamos-release4-20140108u1.iso.torrent
<popey> ta
<popey> odd, not downloading anything here
<popey> magnet is in transmission though
<popey> ah, magnet on laptop can see my vps tho
<popey> thats better, chugging along now
<shauno> I see popey.com on mine :p
<popey> does yours resolve ip to host or did you look it up?
<shauno> it resolves
<popey> neat
<directhex> transmission doesn't resolve here
<directhex> i see deluge, 2xtransmission, and one generic libtorrent
<popey> i have 1xtransmission and 2xrtorrent
<shauno> I'm using https://code.google.com/p/transmisson-remote-gui/ because it's running on a box elsewhere
<popey> (mine)
 * popey leaves it running while going to make cottage pie i think
<ali1234> i got up to 60 ratio on the last one
<popey> yeah, same here, was peak/troughy, but quite popular
<directhex> another slow torrents day. thanks, bt
 * daftykins jumps on the torrent
<daftykins> hmm looks like you announced it a bit sooner this time, tonnes on it already? :D
<ali1234> i'm at ratio 1 and i've only downloaded 25% of it
<daftykins> yeah it's ground to a halt ~the 27% mark
<diddledan> what we torrenting?
<daftykins> latest steamos again from directhex
<directhex> let me see what i can do
<diddledan> hmm, should I plop a torrentbox up somewhere to helpout?
<popey> its bottlenecked on directhex upstream atm
<ali1234> yeah
<directhex> yeah
<directhex> :/
<foobarry> any risc os users here?
<penguin42> not for about ooh 15 years
<shauno> lol, that's cute; 'someone' shows up as Guernsey, but it has no idea what flag to assign to them
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> i heard risc os is now open source
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<daftykins> shauno: do i have an addy or just IP?
<daftykins> assuming your client resolves
<shauno> a name, bbdhome2-blahblahblah
<shauno> it just looks a tad silly in the UI because everyone else has flags
<daftykins> fancy not having the Guernsey flag =|
<diddledan> lol, nice: http://retro.apebox.org/index.php?section=six&rant=irc.rant <-- I been nosey
<daftykins> i am insulted!
<popey> file a bug â»
<diddledan> does guernsey even have a flag?
 * popey mashes spuds
<diddledan> I mean there's like three people there, what are the chances one of you has a spare rag? :-p
<diddledan> </troll>
<shauno> interesting, I can't checkout svn on this 3g connection.  it doesn't make it through o2-ie's mangler
<directhex> ok someone else on BT just connected, 1.12MB up now
<daftykins> diddledan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Flag_of_Guernsey.svg
<diddledan> yeah, but that's wiki.
<diddledan> and it looks decidedly like dicky the lion heart's shield
<popey> http://popey.com/bandwidth/
<popey> click "days" and spot where directhex releases yeoldesteamos
<shauno> well boo.  there's nothing in the zip of flags to say where they got it from
<shauno> if it makes you feel better, comcast via ipv6 isn't getting a flag either.  so not only are you not alone, but you might be the future
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yeah i've spotted the IPv6-ers get nothing
<daftykins> woohoo complete
<shauno> :(  the list got really boring now
<shauno> I'm not sure there's any solution for this, but I find it interesting that the ipv6 client appears to be connected by both 4+6, and is being served as two separate peers
<daftykins> how funky
<daftykins> how did you spot the v6 matching the v4s?
<shauno> two customers on the same ISP with the same % complete, just looks suss
<shauno> customers, clients, peers, whatever.  I've been at work since 6am :(
<foobarry> penguin42: i'm trying to remember an archimedes adventure game that starts with you being guarded in a train carriage...know it?
<penguin42> foobarry: No, I didn't play much games on the Arch
<ali1234> foobarry: text adventure?
<foobarry> yeah ali1234
<ali1234> was it an infocom one?
<ali1234> was it corruption?
<foobarry> i was just looking at the corruption wiki
<foobarry> from memory i'm thinking it might be.
<foobarry> how did you get out of the carriage?
<foobarry> ask for the toilet?
<ali1234> i dunno?
<ali1234> i'm just googling
<ali1234> http://www.lemonamiga.com/?game_id=1557
<foobarry> maybe corruption came out at similar time
<ali1234> did it have graphics like that?
<foobarry> not corruption
<foobarry> first scene is you in a train carriage
<ali1234> http://msmemorial.if-legends.org/games.htm/jinxter.php
<ali1234> mentions something about a train
<foobarry> hmmm doesn't seem to be the one from my memory,
<foobarry> it was certainly an earlier arch game , trawling through the mag scrolls ones
<bigcalm> directhex: just nabbed your latest torrent. I am currently seeding beta1 & beta2. What should I drop (if any)?
<bigcalm> beta1 got to a ratio of 0.4. beta2 got to 30.1 :)
<directhex> bigcalm, drop everything that isn't release 4
<directhex> (i've simplified the version numbering now, too)
<bigcalm> Okay
<daftykins> shauno: weekend work O_O
<shauno> it's not that bad
<shauno> I had thursday/friday off, will have monday/tuesday off, and enjoy two shifts with no adult supervision
<daftykins> \o/
<shauno> eg; the most I've done in the last 2 hours, is try to figure out why this client has no gg.png
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> can i have a job?
<popey> wheee 5MB/s
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> haha, my brothers latest toy is a quadracopter
<daftykins> the views of Guernsey are quite nice in this one
<daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcHqoiV-Z8c
<bigcalm> That's incredibly steady
<bigcalm> No wind I'm guessing
<daftykins> it was pretty good yesterday
<bigcalm> Sounds like a herd of strimmers
<popey> whih one is it?
<bigcalm> It appears to be in the 'gaming' category, bit odd
<daftykins> yeah i thought that
<bigcalm> Is it a live feed back to the controls, or is it only available once downloaded?
<bigcalm> I want one now
<daftykins> i was given the vid link and that's all i know unfortunately
<daftykins> lol
<bigcalm> Pfft
<daftykins> i suspect it was just a goPro attached
<bigcalm> Time to do my duty and be in the sitting room while Dancing on Ice is on. Hooray for laptop and headphones!
<popey> hahaha
<popey> unlucky
<bigcalm> It's nice to spend time together, even if we're doing different things
<daftykins> =]
<bigcalm> Today's big outing was to Dreams
<daftykins> anything but that :'(
<penguin42> did you fall asleep?
<bigcalm> Spent over 1.2K on a new mattress :S
<diddledan> ouch
<popey> wat
<popey> u mad bro
<bigcalm> Yus
<diddledan> by eck that's alotta dough
<bigcalm> I'm looking forward to sleeping well once more
<popey> i should coco for that amount
<penguin42> hmm, I can see how that can happen; I spent about 700 on one probably near 7 years ago - and that was a custom size but only a bit over single
<popey> I'd expect to never wake up
<penguin42> bigcalm: Temper ?
<bigcalm> I think it was something like 1.1K for the mattress and then extra for the delivery and wotnot
<penguin42> (tempor?)
<bigcalm> penguin42: amazingly no. We didn't find the Temper as comfortable
<penguin42> bigcalm: Was it a clone of a temper or a more normal one?
<diddledan> silentnight?
<bigcalm> penguin42: more normal one. I should go and find the receipt
<penguin42> nod; mine is a Temper clone
<diddledan> that's the one that makes you feel weightless (according to the advert)
<bigcalm> popey: made use of wedding money. Only way we could ever entertain the idea of a new decent mattress
<penguin42> diddledan: Which is rubbish - they are comfy but not that weightless
<diddledan> I think waking up feeling weightless might make my mind go madder than it already is (at least for the moment)
<popey> our mattress was bought from amazon while laying on the old one.
<popey> "Alan, order a new mattress"
<popey> "How about this one?"
<popey> "Looks good"
<diddledan> popey: lifestyle of champions
<popey> "Ok, I'll be here on monday"
<daftykins> brother says he had first person view showing lots of telemetry
<penguin42> popey: Do you have it on subscription?
<popey> hah, no
<popey> *it'll
<diddledan> if you pay more on amazon they'll be kind enough not to show you adverts
<penguin42> really?
<daftykins> so he has goggles for it @_@ http://www.fatshark.com/
<diddledan> I wonder how adverts will work on a mattress though
<popey> amazon is one giant advert
<popey> I am sure I tested my RPi powered by a USB battery but I can't remember how long it lasted
<popey> wondering how long the battery would last powering Pi and two motors, scuttling around
<diddledan> surely that'll depend on the size of your epeen.. erm.. battery
<popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141142336606?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
<popey> 13000mah
<bigcalm> Â£1,284.98 Sotheby
<diddledan> so 13 hours at 1amp delivery
<diddledan> bigcalm: did you just fish out the receipt, you geek?
<popey> might need to get a newer Pi
<bigcalm> diddledan: yes, I paid on my personal debit card. Needed the amount so that I can transfer it from the joint account
<diddledan> why is it when a person from a known category of society comments on another person's membership of that same category it isn't as offensive as when a third person who isn't a member does so in the same manner?
<diddledan> e.g. kids at school yelling "GEEEEEEEK" vs me calling bigcalm a geek just now
<daftykins> the pot and the kettle are on better terms
<bigcalm> :)
<diddledan> does the pot call the kettle the word beginning with N that those of the opposing chroma value aren't allowed anywhere near?
<diddledan> at the risk of being mildly offensive I think the phrase should be changed to "wassup my racially equivalent male sibling?!"
<shauno> diddledan: what have I told you about thinking too much?
<diddledan> shauno: it's a curse
<diddledan> shauno: I'm good at foot-in-mouth disease
<daftykins> in some ways i wonder if the words' power/value would be destroyed if we all just chose to use it from one day forward
<shauno> I've just figured out that toys that I thought were broke, aren't.  which is almost as good as having new toys to play with
<bigcalm> Aha, I think I've found the mattress on the website: http://www.dreams.co.uk/mattresses/pocket-spring-mattresses/sotheby-mattress
<diddledan> shauno: bedroom antics getting spicy?
<shauno> even better!  a hf upconverter for this lil sdr dongle wotsit
<diddledan> bigcalm: it only works for 40 days and 40 nights? that's somewhat biblical at least
<bigcalm> Hehe
<daftykins> popey + bigcalm the copter appears to be: http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/
<bigcalm> diddledan: if after 30 days, and before 40 days) one is unhappy with the mattress, one can change it for another one
<bigcalm> daftykins: ta
<daftykins> you can program it to follow waypoints via GPS O_O
<bigcalm> Â£352 from the 1st site
<bigcalm> Interesting
<bigcalm> Cool
<diddledan> daftykins: bigcalm: this cross-purpose conversation looks weird - I read a statement about a mattress being replaceable followed by a comment that you can set it to use gps
<daftykins> XD
<bigcalm> Haha
<daftykins> bigcalm: i think my brothers getting all the toys in before the plan to have a baby with his Mrs succeeds!
<diddledan> because we all need a mattress that takes you down a narrow lane in the middle of the night
<daftykins> doesn't yours?
<diddledan> it hasn't done so yet, but then I haven't plugged it in.. ever
<diddledan> so it's probably got no juice
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> under-utilised :(
<diddledan> let's leave my personal life out of this :-p
<daftykins> http://pastebin.com/Wj07L3Bx
<daftykins> amusing email
<ali1234> http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/landgrab.asp
<ali1234> sorry
<ali1234> certainly not 100% true
<daftykins> i hardly need fact to keep it entertaining ;) was just one of a contacts many emails
<daftykins> i'm somewhat surprised you went out of your way to check
<ali1234> it's what i do
<daftykins> Captain Buzzkill :D
<ali1234> this one is real: http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/2013/06/this-cease-and-desist-response-is-pretty-amazing/
<ali1234> shauno: HF upconverter allows it to receiver lower frequencies right?
<shauno> that's the plan
<ali1234> how much would that type of thing cost and can i build it myself?
<shauno> it's not going so well, but that's the idea.  to move 0-30 to 100-130  (better ones have a 125MHz LO so you don't get clobbered by the broadcast band)
<ali1234> does it not shift *everything*?
<shauno> nooelec have a variant for about $40, which has a better reputation than mine ('ham it up').  mine was about 20e from hungary
<ali1234> i know nothing about radio
<shauno> I actually have very little idea how it works myself.  I know that you start with an input signal and a local oscillator.  after that, "a stork brings it"
<penguin42> ali1234/shauno: It's pretty simple
<penguin42> ali1234: What you do is you multiply/mix a sine wave oscillator with your signal and out of that mixer you get   signal+sine and signal-sine frequencies
<penguin42> ali1234: You then put a filter in to keep only the bits you're interested in
<penguin42> ali1234: The process is called heterodyning
<shauno> I just view it as being a superhet backwards
<penguin42> why backwards?
<shauno> instead of using a VFO to bring it down to an IF, I'm going up instead
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> :S
<ali1234> big words
<ali1234> penguin42: i went and bugged the systemd people about the alsa problem and one of them sent a patch to alsa-devel
<penguin42> shauno: You have to be a little careful to make sure the LO and the products you get from it land outside where ever your filter is
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah cool
<shauno> I'm not sure there's a filter doing it this way?
<penguin42> shauno: You don't necessarily need one as long as you're careful about which bit of the output frequency range you're looking at
<ali1234> wouldn't you just do the filter in software anyway?
<shauno> I understand that in normal usage, you have a variable oscillator, a fixed output frequency, and you filter each side of the output frequency
<shauno> this thing has a fixed oscillator, and a wide output, so I tune around inside the output
<penguin42> shauno: Yeh but in reality you tend to have multiple oscillators/mixers/filter stages
<penguin42> ali1234: Yes but only if you're careful that the sets of outputs you get into your sampling don't alias to each other
<shauno> this one looks incredibly simple; http://www.ebay.ie/itm/181300457997  (the one I have, not necessarily the one I'd recommend)
<shauno> the shiney that's hard to read in the pictures is labelled 100M
<penguin42> shauno: Oh that's neat
<penguin42> shauno: So say you've got a signal at 10MHz, if I understand correctly you're signal will end up appearing at 90MHz and 110MHz on the output
<ali1234> i know for a fact i have a 100Mhz crystal in my junk box...
<shauno> I believe that's the plan, yeah
<shauno> although so far it's not what I'd hoped for.  but it does seem to be working, I've found some SW broadcast bands
<penguin42> shauno: Now, say you've got an incoming signal at 50MHz, you'll get an output at 150MHz and oh hmm 50MHz which will probably get confusing with the input
<ali1234> http://blog.kf7lze.net/tag/up-converter/ <- this looks pretty simple
<shauno> a 100MHz LO wasn't the best idea though.  I know 'ham it up' have an option of a 125MHz xtal so you're not fighting the broadcast band
<shauno> ali1234: you can go the other direction too.  I found someone who was bringing 8GHz down to something a cheap sdr could reach, which (plus a large dish) allowed him to copy the china mars thing
<ali1234> awesome
<penguin42> nice
<ali1234> on a slightly unrelated topic, is there any good oscilloscope software for linux?
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: "The last Monday of January is bubble wrap awareness day"</QI>
<DJones> Finally, a use for cats https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/999929_631936796891355_917710229_n.jpg Pillows :)
<shauno> they also make good draught excluders
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRPWlBAgSnw
<bigcalm> Opened terminal, forgot why
<shauno> I do that with the fridge
<shauno> often when the fridge wasn't involved in the original plan at all.  just sit and stare for a little while, until I remember I was looking for a coffee cup
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i have a thing with browsing onto my storage array, if i need to do something work related i go into the TV Series folder, if i need to do something TV series related i go into the work folder
<shauno> OH   that reminds me sherlock's tonight.  ta muchley
<MartijnVdS> shauno: too late
<MartijnVdS> it started an hour ago
<shauno> too late is even betterer, it won't be on the webs until it's finished :)
 * bigcalm pats the PVR
<ali1234> mythtv :)
<bigcalm> Or DVR
 * bigcalm lets things get recorded
<bigcalm> get_iplayer FTW!
<shauno> yeah I have one of those, but I don't get HD here.  74e a month and no HD
<shauno> and the UI is horrible.  it feels like the hardware is 4 years behind where the software thinks it is
<shauno> it was fine until they tried to be clever with transparent overlays.  oh well
<shauno> I guess I just generally dislike my ISP.  they sent me a letter telling me that if I continue to transfer this much, they'll have to bump me to a higher tier
<shauno> so I phoned them up and asked if I could have moar internets, and they had to admit they don't have a higher tier
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> great letter
<daftykins> how much are you pushing?
<ali1234> iplayer is terrible quality :/
<shauno> the letter says 834GB, and appparently 'unlimited' is 500
<bigcalm> ali1234: not terrible for radio shows :)
<Myrtti> popey: http://www.indiedb.com/games/catlateral-damage
<daftykins> shauno: perhaps it's easier to have two services to the same property :D
<bigcalm> Time to buy a new laptop. This one can't cope with my very simple dev needs. *grumble*
<shauno> that I'm actually curious about.  I have two IPs off them and I shouldn't.  so I'm not sure if they're accounting for that
<SuperMatt> http://imgur.com/9QF7FFz <- this is me right now
<bigcalm> Do I want to buy a Lenovo or Dell?
 * bigcalm pokes popey 
<bigcalm> popey: what laptop do you have?
<shauno> we're apparently moving to lenovo at work.  thinkpad->dell inspiron->hp probook->thinkpad.  I guess.
<shauno> I'm not complaining though.  it seems they've decided the best way to migrate to win7 is to just start issuing everyone new laptops
<daftykins> ;/
<daftykins> i suppose it takes away the time pressure
<shauno> I can't believe I'm excited about a windows upgrade.  I'll finally be able to use over 2.7GB of ram!
<shauno> (my current machine has 8GB of ram and windows XP)
<daftykins> work one?
<shauno> yeah
<daftykins> ouch >_<
<daftykins> untapped potential
<popey> bigcalm: x220
<bigcalm> popey: ta
<popey> current laptops on my list of "what I would like if someone else was paying" is dell xps and thinkpad x1 carbon
<popey> the new xps with touchscreen would be handy for me
<moreati> popey: the current base model macbook pro 15 works very well with Trusty. Down side is complete lack of upgradability, and fragility of Apple PSU
<shauno> fragility .. physically?
<moreati> shauno: yes, where the DC cable meets each end
<shauno> ah, yeah.  I go through about one a year :/
<popey> i had one replaced after 3 years
<moreati> shauno: if you can solder then just the cable is available on eBay for ~Â£10
<popey> out of warranty, apple replaced both the power board in the laptop and the external supply
<moreati> no such luck here
<popey> â¹
<shauno> my current solution has been to get one for work and one for home, so I'm not rolling it up 4 days a week
<daftykins> their length can be a downside sometimes, eh?
<bigcalm> Why is it so difficult to find high end screen res on lenovo and dell websites?
<bigcalm> I don't want to just buy the most expensive thing
<shauno> it's not the length, it's that now and then they sacrifice sturdy for pretty
<shauno> apple basically suck at cables and mice
<shauno> (mice because they hate buttons, which is a mooses dayjob)
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> bigcalm: i know what you mean, so many laptops are still restricted to the depths of 1366x768 instead of at least a 1080p panel
<bigcalm> Looking at http://www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd?oc=cn75305&model_id=inspiron-15-7537 as it's something that I can afford
<Azelphur> bigcalm: that hard drive will drag the system down, forking out for a touch screen on a laptop isn't great imo
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I'll be replacing the HDD with an SSD I already have spare. I don't care for touch screens. It seems the most affordable performance machine with high res screen though
<shauno> I think touchscreens are kinda personal.  some people love them, some people hate them (for me, if you leave a thumbprint on my screen I'll leave you unable to procreate)
 * bigcalm chuckles
<daftykins> hehehe :D
<daftykins> yeah screen touching has always been a grating one for me
<shauno> "you're pointing .. you're pointing .. noooo ... now you must die"
<shauno> the polish guy at work just grabs your hand and moves it away.  I wish I had that confidence.
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> bigcalm: if you're feeling brave, laptops are much cheaper in USA
<bigcalm> Nope, I'm a chicken
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> it's when they poke so hard you can see the LCD colours go funky
<daftykins> Azelphur: how're your super bandwidths sir?
<Azelphur> It's evening now, so fine
 * bigcalm tootles off to bed
<daftykins> Azelphur: oh right it's only in peak hours it sucks?
<Azelphur> yu
<Azelphur> p
<shauno> I remember when I first got the internet.  I digitized my circadian rhythm; 'peak hours' became 'bedtime'
<Azelphur> same, I was on free dialup
<shauno> we had the free dialup you paid for.  which makes sense according to BT
<shauno> iirc you could pay 15 squids/mo and get the calls free, or pay nothing and pay penny/minute for the calls
<shauno> both they termed 'free'
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> i had to beg for AOL after years of 1p/min
<daftykins> ;/
<shauno> I just remember spending way too long on the phone to them trying to get the right dial-in number when I spent a week away from home
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> at which point I was paying 1p/m for the call because I wasn't at home, and 15/mo for the account
<shauno> I think it just stands out because it was the first time I realised I was paying for the privilege of teaching tech support
<popey> the only reason I want a touch screen laptop is to test ubuntu touch apps â»
<shauno> I'd love a touchscreen laptop if my laptop was small/light enough to wipe the screen off on my shirt
<popey> hah
<popey> i find myself wiping the camera more than the screen
<Myrtti> imgur is full of cats today it seems
<shauno> isn't that what the internet's for?
<Myrtti> http://imgur.com/gallery/hVDBjSl
<popey> Myrtti: thanks for that cat link
<Myrtti> popey: np
<popey> http://www.theserverstore.com/content/dell-poweredge-c6100-servers
<popey> hmm
<ali1234> a review of my predictions for 2013, made in 2012: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/iL21YorCLXf
<Azelphur> ali1234: I should do that sort of thing, people would stop telling me I was crazy xD
<shauno> Azelphur: how do I put this gently.  you are crazy.
<Azelphur> true
<popey> bigcalm: what did you order?
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-05
<shauno> I've seen that in a few dell servers - the internal usb port.  handy for esxi
<daftykins> =]
<mapp> i all
<mapp> im back dont worry
<mapp> hm poker night film sounds ok
<mapp> noone around odd ;[
<popey> Morning!
<daftykins> o/
<Seeker`> \o
<DJones> Morning all, happy back to the grindstone & wage slave day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Myrtti> morning
<brobostigon> morning Myrtti
<Myrtti> I should maybe find another wallpaper for my Ubuntu
<Myrtti> I've stared at the Hotel Adriano garden with Gina in a gazebo for a year now
<brobostigon> it would be cool if live wallpapers were possible, but a definate waste of resources.
 * DJones hands Myrtti http://www.thevintagegalaxy.com/image/cache/data/tapeten%20der%2070er%20(8)-1024x1024.JPG
<davmor2> Morning all
 * Myrtti just goes to browse http://imgur.com/gallery/wTApy
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice star destroyer dude figured out where you are putting it yet?
<zmoylan-pi> a change of wallpaper once an hour from a web cam would be nice so you could see a location as it goes though night and day
<popey> brobostigon: live wallpapers is possible
<brobostigon> popey: cool,
<bashrc_> so how do you set up a live wallpaper from webcam?
<popey> no idea
<bashrc_> I've never seen that done, but it's maybe possible
<bashrc_> ...then pick some puppycam
<zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi project beckons...
<Myrtti> oh man, I love new Gimp
<Myrtti> there, now I've got a new wallpaper.
<Myrtti> and new gmail background as well.
<davmor2> Myrtti: why the new gimp?  What does it do that the old one didn't?
<Myrtti> well new gimp in comparison to the gimp that was with 12.04
<Myrtti> single window setup
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, happy new year, and happy Bird Day! :-D
<davmor2> JamesTait: /me hears the surviving Turkeys sigh a communal sigh of relief
<JamesTait> davmor2, wait, we missed one?
<nigelb> I thought it'd be "Oh dear, it's back to the grind" day.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's the feral ones they hide, next year they fight back, I might be confusing turkeys and apes though there was a few films about it ;)
<JamesTait> nigelb, never! 2015 is going to be amazing! :)
 * JamesTait keeps a look out for feral davmor2s.
<zmoylan-pi> beware of feral turkeys http://vineyardgazette.com/news/2008/06/20/one-wild-turkey-four-gunshots-lead-three-assault-charges?k=vg54aa60e958691&r=1
<nigelb> lol
<davmor2> JamesTait: if I learnt anything from 2014, 2015 is going to be a roller-coaster ride and insanely busy
<JamesTait> davmor2, isn't that what I said? :-P
<DJones> mmmmh, wild turkey, nice whisky
<NET||abuse> i'm trying to decide what to do with my odroice-c1, i got it just before new year, have it running their image of ubuntu 14.04.1
<NET||abuse> I could just xmbc my telly with it, but i feel like i should do something more
<diplo> Let me know how well it runs xbmc :)
<NET||abuse> will do.
<diplo> That's what I was going to buy it for
<NET||abuse> yeh, i'll get it setup as soon as i have time now this week
<NET||abuse> the image they give you has a setup tool when it boots, kind of like a live image, you dd it onto your sd card, then there's the utity with ncurses menu that you can setup the hdmi resolution, update the kernel, expand the fs on the sdcard, and there's an install xbmc option, but it came up with not supported (yet)
<diplo> Still it sounds good
<NET||abuse> indeed, so just have to figure out he xbmc setup
<diplo> Can grab xbmc or KODI from the ppa I guess
<NET||abuse> they have a video of it, so hopeing that the not supported (yet) might just mean update a repo or something.
<NET||abuse> yup, could look into that,
<NET||abuse> saw an arch page on setting up odroid today too
<NET||abuse> http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/amlogic/odroid-c1
<NET||abuse> I'd be happier in ubuntu as i know what i'm doing there, but there is some part of me willing to experiment and try arch on it.
<NET||abuse> I've not arch'd before.
<diplo> https://launchpad.net/~team-xbmc/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<diplo> Or http://kodi.wiki/view/Official_Ubuntu_PPA
<Azelphur> first day back at work, and http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4035056453 my internet connection is clearly happy today.
<zmoylan-pi> people still on holiday/sick... :-)
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: hehe, nah was fine yesterday, must be some sort of fault, it's a 70mbit bt infinity line
<diddledan> Azelphur: that's very slow if you're on a 76Mbit line
<zmoylan-pi> well he's got 2-3 weeks of tv downloading :-)
<Azelphur> diddledan: oversold again it seems
<Azelphur> enta.net seem to be the king of overselling, this is the third time they've oversold my line now.
<zmoylan-pi> buy a second connection with them so you're in connention with yourself :-P
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I love how they openly admit "Oh it seems our node is overloaded"
<Azelphur> thanks for selling my internet connection that I already paid for to someone else folks!
<Azelphur> xD
<zmoylan-pi> it would make deep packet inspection much more interesting if half the packets are missing :-)
<Azelphur> hehe
<awilkins> I'm on a 60... allegedly
<awilkins> VM have just mailed me to say they'll upgrade me to 100
<awilkins> From the way it's rigged, I'm betting that entails taking another contract with them because I have to click on things and "order" stuff
<awilkins> I don't actually get much more than 20Mbit/s
<awilkins> Upload is fine
<daftykins> awilkins: are you in a city centre? or Uni town?
<awilkins> daftykins, Rubbish suburb
<awilkins> From past performance problems I'm guessing there are a lot of torrenters around here
<awilkins> Local router had severe RAM / CPU problems a few years ago
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> supplied one?
<popey> awilkins: which modem do you currently have?
<popey> the little ntl one with green LEDs along the front?
<awilkins> popey, The VM branded "Superhub" with the red and blue lights in the corner
<popey> oh, that should be capable of 100Mb
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> It has the 60mbit profile loaded at present but only manages ~ 22Mbit/s on speedtest.net
<popey> ouch
<awilkins> Which is consistent with things like Steam download speeds
 * popey speedtests
<popey> "Speedtest.net requires Flash"
<popey> maybe not
<awilkins> It's in Modem mode and connected to my internal router
<awilkins> But I have tested it with just a bare wire
<daftykins> perhaps it should find itself a little accident
<awilkins> Usually a problem on the line, not in the modem
<awilkins> Every time I've had problems they send an engineer out and they usually change the attenuator
<popey> \o/ speedtest-cli
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9677478/
<popey> \o/
<Laney> I need to put some ethernet cable down in this place
<Laney> wiring's a bit old for powerline
<daftykins> cat6 all the things \o/
<awilkins> popey, That's really useful
<awilkins> It was resolving another ISPs speed server
<awilkins> So tested it with the VM hosted one
<awilkins> Same speed, 19.19 mbit/s
<daftykins> is the one attached the only coax feed in the property?
<daftykins> if their modem is a little funky it should totally have an accident ;)
<diddledan> do they replace modems if they have water damage from finding their way into a bath full of water at the opposite end of the house to where the router usually sits?
<awilkins> It's on the only coax in the house
<awilkins> Don't even have an STB
<popey> i want to move my vm box
<popey> but hate DIY
<DJones> popey: You're a bloke, you love DIY (subject to stereotypes)
<daftykins> :)
<popey> Nope.
<diddledan> I can't DIY
<diddledan> I break things
<diddledan> now then, I wonder if my desktop pc is randomly cutting power because the cpu gets too hot?
<diddledan> it needs a decent clean of the heatsink
<diddledan> or better yet, a bigger more sinking heat sink
<DJones> Or a colder office
 * DJones moves diddledan to Finland
<DJones> To an office with no glass in the windows
<diddledan> brr
<daftykins> diddledan: how do the sensors read?
<diddledan> daftykins: as in the technology or the actual value?
<daftykins> temperatures, ja
<diddledan> I've not actually had a look at the moment of power-off, I only thought about it after it's been offline overnight
<daftykins> i got pretty tempted by those Dell XPS 13s the other day, but 1) i really don't fancy something with the Dell logo on it and 2) there are way too many changes in the industry coming that'd render it pretty useless soon enough
<ali1234> what changes are those?
<diddledan> new uberchip from intel
<daftykins> more so USB 3.1c
<daftykins> 'useless' was an exaggeration :D
<diddledan> 3.1c?!
<daftykins> yep y'know, the 10Gbps audio, video and reversible connector edition
<diddledan> aah, yes
<diddledan> an attempt at usurping thunderbolt
<daftykins> i think it needs to be done, haven't exactly seen thunderbolt take off
<diddledan> I would expect it to achieve better penetration than thunderbolt
<diddledan> the advantage of usb is that it's completely backwards compatible down to 1.0
<zmoylan-pi> os/2 had more penetration than thunderbolt :-)
 * diddledan resists innuendo
<daftykins> of course, getting rid of it means less plays of AC/DC's 'Thunderstruck'
<DJones> Oh my word, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-30681476 Space hopper man caught on dual carriageway
 * zmoylan-pi tries to remember the british comedy of the serial killer with the spacehopper
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> lmao
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: I don't remember that one
<diddledan> what an eejit
<zmoylan-pi> monkey dust
<DJones> And this is why scotland should have been given independance
<diddledan> DJones, yeah, get rid of them :-p
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPUmH46xRoU monky dust
<zmoylan-pi> the link i meant... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBUFgJlrCDc
<zmoylan-pi> great show...
<Laney> mmm after eights
<popey> But it's only 6!
<zmoylan-pi> he's eating 2 hours east...
<Laney> it's after 8 am
<Laney> and if it's not, then it's after 8 pm :-)
<zmoylan-pi> as long as he doesn't feed the gremlin after midnight
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> ok, I've booted my desktop - it's hovering around 60-70C on the CPU
<daftykins> idle? jeez
<daftykins> clean + thermal paste reapplication o'clock, perhaps?
<diddledan> hmm, just dropped to around 50 now
<diddledan> still high IMO
<daftykins> what type is it?
<diddledan> the gfx is static at about 45
<diddledan> it's an amd bulldozer 8core
<daftykins> oh so you're the guy that buys AMD ;)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I want an intel for my next one tho
<daftykins> so sad they'll likely never come back and compete as they once did :(
<diddledan> they _used_ to be better than the equivalent intel back in the K6 days
<daftykins> mmm, i loved them for the Athlon XP and Athlon64 era
<daftykins> though for the latter they were dogged by chipset woes
<diddledan> odd that amd won the 64bit race, too, allthough not by being first
<diddledan> itanium was first but nobody wanted it
<daftykins> faster with x64 tasks y'mean?
<daftykins> yarr
<diddledan> prolly because it wasn't x86-compatible
<daftykins> aren't there some dramatic differences between the architectures though?
<daftykins> maybe that :D
<intrbiz> diddledan: DEC Alpha was 64bit before Itanium (which was mostly a HP design anyway)
<intrbiz> AMD beat Intel to the 1GHz x86 boundary too
<diddledan> intrbiz, and there was ppc64, also
<diddledan> and sparc64
<diddledan> ppc was/is ibm? and sparc was sun?
<intrbiz> Power is IBM
<intrbiz> AMD also put the memory controller, GPU on die long before Intel did
<diddledan> I thought for a while after sun open sourced solaris that it was going to gain more traction than it did - I think part of the problem was that oracle came along
<intrbiz> AMD also had Hypertransport, which Intel later copied with QPI
<diddledan> if there's one thing that oracle does well, it's killing anything it touches
<intrbiz> Oracle has tried hard to damage the open solaris community
<zmoylan-pi> are they as good as hp at killing acquisitions?
<intrbiz> diddledan: Oracle is expert in extracting large sums of money from customers
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, they're trying hard to be that good
<intrbiz> thankfully Oracle hasn't killed Java yet, but that would be a pretty stupid move for them
<intrbiz> HP suffered from hiring the worlds dumbest CEO
<diddledan> I wonder what elop is going to kill next, ready for an acquisition by a competitor
<diddledan> macromedia. check. nokia. check.
<daftykins> maybe he works for the mafia,
<daftykins> :D
<intrbiz> diddledan: I was hoping on MS
<daftykins> move in, shutdown the company
<zmoylan-pi> elop isn't dumb, he's the best trojan horse since the original
<diddledan> daftykins, that seems to be his game plan
<intrbiz> It was leo apotheker I was eluding to
<diddledan> intrbiz, aye
<intrbiz> he managed to drop HP's stock 40% and still got a Â£7m pay off
<diddledan> http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/dlink-ac-router-590x330.jpg
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> that's a router and then some
<diddledan> I wonder if all those pointy things actually do anything
<diddledan> found via: http://www.geek.com/chips/d-links-new-routers-look-like-theyre-built-for-the-imperial-guard-1612782/
<daftykins> yeah, wouldn't touch D-Link though
<daftykins> you should see the Netgear 'Nighthawk' too ;)
<mapp> free yens tonight
<mapp> from N17 Tottenham should win easily
<mapp> ;]
<daftykins> as in the Japanese currency?
<zmoylan-pi> you could make that router look like an alien facehugger so easily :-)
<daftykins> XD
<mapp> yes
<mapp> watching poker night now
<zmoylan-pi> maybe popping up when a guest connects for first time beside comfy chair... :-D
<mapp> does anyone here use twitter much? got a few qs i dont use it much
<zmoylan-pi> i use it @angryearthling
<diddledan> ok, lets see if that works better - I've fished-out some clogged dust between the cpu fan and the heatsink on my desktop - it's now about 10C cooler at 40C under a bit of load
<diddledan> that's about 20% load - so one core running full I guess
<diddledan> hmm, more like 2 cores running full, as it's an 8ish core cpu
<diddledan> it's weird - intel do hyperthread to double the core count, whereas the bulldozer amd was/is a suite of full cores with each pair linked to a single ALU
<diddledan> so arithmatic can be a bottleneck
<zmoylan-pi> intel was always bad at maths :-P
<diddledan> it's an amd :-p
<zmoylan-pi> my statement still stands... :-)
<diddledan> aah, I'm re-reading the wiki page about the architechture - it's not so much the ALU but specifically the floating-point arithmetic that is shared between x86 cores
<diddledan> so each pair of integer cores (the standard x86 bit) has a single floating point accelerator
<diddledan> what used to be called an 8087 back in the day
<diddledan> (I think)
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the one time we added a maths co pro to a computer for an accountant to get his excel going faster... took my boss 4 attempts and 3 burnt out co pros as there was no marking as to the orientation visible in natural light to indicate pin 0
<zmoylan-pi> would it have been so hard to make the socket only fit one way? :-)
<druid_> hi
<zmoylan-pi> hello
<druid_> what is a good irc chatroom or server to goto in order to learn how to use irc?
<zmoylan-pi> freenode is a grand server to hang out on irc.  lots of channels covering different subjects
<druid_> thankyou
<zmoylan-pi> just hang out in any chatroom your interested in and you'll see the etiquette in use
<druid_> im new to irc (ive been under a rock lol)
<zmoylan-pi> *you're
<zmoylan-pi> well... many of the irc folk exist under rocks :-P
<zmoylan-pi> not fans of natural light :-)
<druid_> haha
<druid_> sounds like ive been missing out on my community!
<daftykins> ^
 * diddledan hisses at the sun
<daftykins> druid_: not hugely ;) IRC has the best and worst in one can
<druid_> our?
 * zmoylan-pi sneaks up on cats in the dark...
<daftykins> if that's my cat, i guarantee you'll come off worse
<druid_> yeah i understand there are always dodgy apples in every crop
<druid_> lol
<druid_> lol @daftykins
<zmoylan-pi> ah mobile connections...
<diddledan> druid_, one tip for IRC is most client programs will automatically complete a username of someone in the channel when you press the tab key - e.g. to complete mine, type something like "did" and then tab
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> and there was me being uncharactaristically helpful, too!
<zmoylan-pi> at least lasted in the channel long enough to answer...
<daftykins> huzzah, just glued the wallpaper back on the wall that my cat sliced off
<daftykins> quality classroom style pritt stick wins ;)
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> which was in my chewits pencil case i've had since the mid 90s
<daftykins> *whistle*
<zmoylan-pi> aren't you just refreshing the scratching post the cat has designated? :-)
<daftykins> nah basically this happened, but with wallpaper slicing - (check your speakers, she's loud) https://www.dropbox.com/s/0mlterh6uuvnjk6/VID_20141216_162210.mp4?dl=0
<diddledan> my first cat used parents' sofa and armchairs as scratching posts - by the time he karked it the covering on each corner had been all but destroyed
<daftykins> heh you can actually see her jaw go there
<diddledan> aww, she no likely
<diddledan> likey**
<zmoylan-pi> ours worked out how to open doors and windows to get at the trespassers
<diddledan> no likey, no lightey
<diddledan> parents don't own a cat anymore, but random neighbourhood ones have worked out how to open their obsolete catflap even though it's locked
<diddledan> hint, it's only locked in one direction.
<daftykins> lol, nice
<daftykins> the flaw with my omnidirectional flap came when i saw my cat batting it to threaten a cat outside
<daftykins> = making it swing outward
<diddledan> so now dad has placed a nice huge lump of wood against the door :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> our second cat did that to signal that he wanted the door opened to let him in
<mapp> m question was re twitter how do you keep up with notifications say i followed some podcasts on twitter how would i know when they tweet about a new ep rather than manually checking their twitter..i know notifications would show it..but it shows EVERY notification for people you follow
<diddledan> he never worked out that he could come and go as he pleased
<diddledan> cat flap? no, it's a door knocker
<daftykins> :D
<mapp> and like is there no way to just have alerts/popups like with email so say ubuntu uk podcast tweets id get an alert?
<daftykins> my cat only learnt to come in mine when she got hungry, when i was laid up in the hospital
<Myrtti> did you guys watch the Horizon Cat thing?
<Myrtti> three episodes.
<daftykins> err
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> tracking around the little town, etc?
<diddledan> don't even know what it is
<daftykins> Horizon the BBC doc
<Myrtti> daftykins: yeah, they made three new episodes
<diddledan> yah, I got the horizon reference, but I don't know what the cat thing is
<daftykins> oh wow
<Myrtti> it had a bit about the cat not using the flap because it wanted to know the surroundings around the cat flap before using it
<daftykins> is anyone still using get_iplayer ? it was broken when i tried it the other day (latest site version and packaged version)
<diddledan> :-(
<mapp> so noone can answer my q hmpf
<daftykins> maybe there's a twitter channel, mapp
<zmoylan-pi> oh, twitter notifications on specific tweets... interesting... never looked...
<diddledan> I don't know if it's possible
<diddledan> twitter tends to be "flood them with all the things"
<diddledan> facebook is similar in that respect
<zmoylan-pi> you could probably script ttytter to send an email when it saw a tweet...
<zmoylan-pi> but then it would need to be running 24x7
<zmoylan-pi> the default clients are lacking and twitter hasn't helped by trying to kill them off
<diddledan> tweetdeck was great when it did facebok alongside twitter in the same thing - now it's twitter-only because the twit bought them out
<zmoylan-pi> http://sarahmarshall.io/post/97038393468/how-to-get-an-email-alert-every-time-a-particular
<diddledan> I don't like hootsuite because they insist you use their own link shortener
<Myrtti> Hairy Dieters curry â¥
<zmoylan-pi> if twitter hadn't of removed the functionality i suspect facebook would have killed it off instead.  wouldn't want a dual client in the hands of their competition
<diddledan> twitter didn't need to buy them tho
<zmoylan-pi> twitter has bought a few clients to kill them.  they want full control of your access to twitter :-(
<diddledan> that was my point - they bought it specifically to remove the facebook and ensure everyone stays on twitter
<mapp> hm
<mapp> got some new green tea
<mapp> salted caramel O_o
<mapp> never seen it before
<diddledan> hmm, computer has died in a new way now
<daftykins> diddledan: keeping you on your toes!
<diddledan> it's background disappeared and chrome hung and opening a folder off the desktop doesn't. (it's windows 10, so I guess I asked for it)
<diddledan> oh, maybe chrome isn't hung
<diddledan> alt+ctrl+del and taskmanager allowed me to restart explorer.exe
<daftykins> alt first!? what foreign talk is this :>
<diddledan> it's talk from amstrad pc1512 days
<mapp> windows 10 eh..cool
<mapp> i was thinkinf of trying it in a vm
<daftykins> just think of 8 with a funny start menu, not even worth installing to see really ;)
<zmoylan-pi> in honour of using an amstrad try gem instead :-)
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> the version of gem we got with ours was the crippled later version after someone sued the author to get them to remove resizable windows
 * zmoylan-pi remembers that debacle
<zmoylan-pi> same thing happened to windows 1.0 iirc
<mapp> why not use it on a vm diddledan
<diddledan> aah, it was apple who sued
<mapp> hmm daftykins  thought 10 has old start menu back
<diddledan> http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline2.html
 * zmoylan-pi learned spreadsheets on vp planner which was a copy of lotus 123 that was sued out of existence by lotus
<daftykins> mapp: yeah, so 8 with a funny start menu :)
<zmoylan-pi> 10 has a menu, just not the menu i think
<daftykins> http://www.hardwareluxx.de/images/stories/galleries/reviews/Microsoft_Windows_10_Preview/Windows_10_Preview_4.jpg
<daftykins> menu + silly tiles
<shauno> isn't that the one where a wild windows8 appeared, and they caught it in win7's start button?
<zmoylan-pi> burn it with fire!!
<zmoylan-pi> they'll have no truck with the 'give customers what they want' schpiel
<zmoylan-pi> but they finally made an uglier ui than default xp angry fruit salad
<daftykins> i'd have to disagree there, fisher price XP was way worse than this
<daftykins> to my eye
<zmoylan-pi> but once you switched to windows classic sanity was inched towards... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> then just install tweakui and remove a lot of the silliness...
<daftykins> yip, i ran 7 with classic on my laptop too, but it disabled the compositing and left video playback to tear :(
<diddledan> who remembers that. microsoft shoehorning html and javascript everywhere in windows98 :-p
<zmoylan-pi> having a massive desktop image in memory at a time when systems were shipped with xp in 128mb ram...
<diddledan> "active folder views"
<zmoylan-pi> active desktop...
<diddledan> and the active destkop, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> like that was never going to be a security problem...
<daftykins> i don't recall XP shipping on boxes with 128MB O_O
<zmoylan-pi> they did
<daftykins> eww
<zmoylan-pi> i set up dozens...
<zmoylan-pi> slowly...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> very slowly...
<zmoylan-pi> i think minimum was 64mb but you couldn't even run wordpad in that
<diddledan> my first windows pc came with 32MB of ram (windows 95)
<zmoylan-pi> my first windows pc was 4mb, with win 3.1
<zmoylan-pi> the first version of windows i used was windows 286.
<zmoylan-pi> it was a runtime of windows shipped with word 1.0 to run on dos computers
<zmoylan-pi> it was only last year i saw a customer who had gotten xp systems with 256mb of ram upgraded to new systems.  the only app they used was browser.
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> meanwhile finance institutions over here are already throwing out i3's
<zmoylan-pi> as patches needed more ram and av became mandatory they moved from ie to opera as it did the job with less
<zmoylan-pi> it's a travel agents. 6 pcs were running xp on 256mb slowly but no hardware problems
<zmoylan-pi> if it ain't broken
<daftykins> oh totally
<daftykins> i'm saying it sickens me, their refreshes
<zmoylan-pi> those 6 systems could be still running linux or even xp with a stick of extra ram
<diddledan> erm. no. anything running xp should be killed
<daftykins> they could buy a single beefy box and make dumb terminals of them
<zmoylan-pi> they were not infected. i saw to that
<diddledan> xp means they can't run anything newer than IE8
<zmoylan-pi> ::waves hand:: this is not the botnet you were looking for
<shauno> I'm surprised you didn't try to replace them with pies :)
<zmoylan-pi> they used opera for browser
<zmoylan-pi> as ie became flakier and flakier
<zmoylan-pi> opera merely had to be less flakier than ie and use less ram :-)
<daftykins> shauno: lol +1
<diddledan> I believe even using opera they'd be stuck with ssl problems
<zmoylan-pi> now they would yes. but i'd have found a way if necessary if they were still there
<intrbiz> only if using schannel for the SSL, chrome moved to NSS IIRC
<zmoylan-pi> trying to remember how the travel agent software made a secure connection...
<intrbiz> and hoping it did....
<diddledan> intrbiz, yeah, I'm just reading that
<zmoylan-pi> trying to remember _if_... :-)
<intrbiz> Chrome uses the Windows trust store however, FF uses it's own trust store
<intrbiz> I dispait when I have to use sever 2012, the few times that I must
<intrbiz> no idea what MS was thinking with that
<MartijnVdS> intrbiz: why? It's Unixy-er than ever ;)
<intrbiz> MartijnVdS: the UI, it's a PITA to use, especially in a VM console / RDP window
<MartijnVdS> intrbiz: I don't have problems with it
<MartijnVdS> xfreerdp.. some plugin to share a directory on my Ubuntu machine as a disk on the server.. and done
<mapp> hm
<mapp> that poker night film was ok
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-06
<ali12341> is three's account management website completely broken or what?
<diddledan> ali12341, I couldn't pay my bill via the online three site the other day
<ali12341> right, you probably still can't
<diddledan> I ended up having to phone it
<diddledan> it seemed to me that bits were just plain missing from the output
<diddledan> e.g. the mastercard/visa thingy
<ali12341> yes, same here
<ali12341> i topped on on 29th of december
<ali12341> now i can't do anything at all on the site
<ali12341> can't register cards, change any settings, change email or address
<diddledan> maybe they've got a date issue
<ali12341> you fill in the form, submit, and it just takes you back to the start with no error message
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> I hunted everywhere for some sign of an error
<diddledan> it just seemed to ignore me
<ali12341> yeah
<ali12341> twitter support person is still fobbing people off
<ali12341> but they won't admit what the problem is, or if it affects everyone
<ali12341> tey just say "we're aware of a problem and trying to fix it"
<ali12341> but essentially it seems like the website is broken for everyone and the phonelines are completely overloaded
<ali12341> i sent an email and they replied to that saying "we're receiving an unusually high volume of requests"
<ali12341> not really unusual if your website is broken though
<daftykins> :D
<ali12341> from twitter: "I've been trying to top up online for almost a week. "This service is currently unavailable. Please try again later."
<ali12341> so pretty much the service has been broken since 1st of january but nobody was at work to fix it
<daftykins> nice \o/
<diddledan> smacks of a date issue
<daftykins> sure does
<ali12341> they must be bleeding money if nobody who got a new phone for christmas has been able to top up
<ali12341> which they wouldn't have if they had to transfer a number
<ali12341> cos the transfers take two business days
<daftykins> doh, www.thetrainline.com is dead
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> i always make the mistake of typing "london ga... ga..." doh, "gatwick airport" on the train sites :P
<daftykins> ugh nationalrail dead too
<daftykins> what is this :P
<daftykins> Â£84 for me to fly one way to Gatwick on the 16th :(
<diddledan> and you have the option to do that route by train? o_O
<daftykins> hehe, nah popping down to Pevensey for a friends birthday
<daftykins> but now i don't really want to book flights when i'm not sure if there's anything at the other end :D
<haza> hello
<haza> i got a problem
<haza> can you help?
<mapps> jesus
<mapps> anyon here?
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<daftykins> Jesus had to step out for a minute, but i'm here
<MooDoo> morning all
<daftykins> o/
<MooDoo> everyone have a good christmas / new year?
<daftykins> yes ty, and yourself? :)
<ali12341> i just managed to get the three website to work
<ali12341> registered a card, then it it broke again afterwards
<ali12341> i think it's just overloaded
<bashrc> last time I used it the three web site was a lesson in bad design and poor functionality
<MooDoo> daftykins: yeah it was great thanks, too short as ever :D
<daftykins> \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> morning bashrc
<knightwise> mornin peeps
<daftykins> o/
<knightwise> hey daftykins !
<knightwise> how are you today
<daftykins> not bad ty :) just enjoying a slight downpour here on Guernsey though. how goes with yourself?
<daftykins> wow City Link went into administration on Christmas Eve O_O
<awilkins> And their redundancy fund is *surprise* being bailed out by the taxpayer
<awilkins> Tories : privatizing the profits, socializing the losses.
<popey> \o/ late brekkie. scrambled egg
<popey> nom
<daftykins> 8D
 * awilkins is jealous of egg
<popey> mmmm egg
<awilkins> I have an egg
<awilkins> But I decided to fast until dinnertime today
<awilkins> I even have some granary bread to toast, to put the egg on
<daftykins> i've always liked egg, but it often makes me feel a bit funny. my mum found out she developed an allergy not long ago too :(
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Apple Tree Day! :-)
<awilkins> And bacon to go under the egg
 * awilkins is just torturing himself at this point
<awilkins> And tomatoes to grill and arrange around the toast to give the brown sauce something to drape itself over
<daftykins> awilkins: now you're torturing me, SHTAP! :)
<popey> mmmmmm tomatoes on toast
<popey> wifey bought me some sardines for lunch
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
 * davmor2 picks apples from the tree and throws them at JamesTait 
 * JamesTait makes apple crumble
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah first violence of 2015 eh ;)
 * daftykins provides the custard
<JamesTait> \o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: as if that is violent I'm just taller than JamesTait so I can reach the higher apples I'm helping him out for his apple crumble
<MooDoo> davmor2: i sit corrected, much better use would be scrumpy cider i say!
<davmor2> MooDoo: I refuse to promote drinking unless it is national scrumpy day
<MooDoo> davmor2: your hard work this morning lol
<nigelb> Is it National Apple Day?
<nigelb> Ah, Apple Tree.
<MooDoo> Happy Epiphany day?
<davmor2> MooDoo: this morning????? every morning I hope ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<davmor2> JamesTait: man yesterday was national whipped cream day if every there was a topping for cold apple pie that was it
<davmor2> bigcalm: how's the man flu?
<JamesTait> davmor2, maybe I need an apprentice!
<davmor2> JamesTait: no you do a wonderful impression of a bot
<davmor2> MooDoo: My love runs cold, my memory has just been sold
<popey> Right, where's the best place to watch this spacex take off and landing then?
<davmor2> popey: Florida maybe?
<bigcalm> davmor2: baka!
<popey> spacex.com will do
<popey> 11 mins till launch
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm back at work, I'll cope
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you find somewhere for the SSD or is it still on the table?
<MooDoo> popey: 36k watching it at the moment
<bigcalm> Still on the dinning room table
<popey> apparently so!
<bigcalm> Pondering taking it to the new office
<popey> exceiting!
<popey> -typo
<popey> bigcalm: SOTNIC ?
<popey> SSD On Table, Not In Computer?
<bigcalm> popey: expect the stream to fail at the most interesting point
<davmor2> popey: lego super star destroyer
<awilkins> My largest SSD is in an external drive cartridge plugged into the front panel of my desktop
<awilkins> It was my work drive, used to carry it to work and plug it into the machine there on the eSATA
<davmor2> awilkins: trust me this is a much bigger SSD see bigcalm's twitter/facebook feed
<awilkins> ANd thus avoid the horrible privations of a corporate build of Windows
<awilkins> That IS a big SSD
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/550763324129181696
<MooDoo> nice
<popey> davmor2: ahhh! boooring! â»
<popey> not real space things!
<davmor2> popey: it's big enough for weather balloon flight I bet ;) it might break a bit on touchdown though :)
<MooDoo> range green
<MooDoo> omg
<MooDoo> stop the clock 1 min to go booooooooooooo
<popey> doubt I could land my quadcopter on that giant platform in the sea
<bigcalm> davmor2: the missing dimension is about 33cm wide
<popey> let alone land a rocket stage on it
<awilkins> Real space things : http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#.VKvEy137s_t
<popey> BOOOOOOO
<MooDoo> friday 9th jan....booooooooooooooooooooooooo
<awilkins> Aborted, darn
<MooDoo> yeah with a min to go
<MooDoo> next launch possibly on the 9th Jan
<awilkins> At least it didn't abort like this : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-30690377
<MooDoo> ouch
<ali12341> watch https://gamesdonequick.com/ instead
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25055444
<popey> that's good..
<daftykins> you guys done much with IP cameras for surveillance/CCTV ? my friends own an art gallery and want to put a couple of cameras in their new place with the idea to watch them from home, too
<diplo> I did a few years ago with Axis cameras
<diplo> We had 35+ cameras from memory and wrote our own interface
<diplo> But you can get their software which is probably more slick
<daftykins> neat! :D are those the likes you'd find on ebay?
<popey> no
<popey> the axis ones are the spendy ones
<popey> the ones on ebay are the cheapo chinese ones
<diplo> Worth it overall though
<daftykins> mmm, wannsview and the like. i see both though
<daftykins> worth it to go premium?
<diplo> We basically did some sums, to get a professional setup/do our own and somewhere in between and also cheap cameras
<diplo> And we tested a few cheaper ones and had more failures/problems with them than anything
<popey> the cheapo ones generally don't have decent enough picture quality to identify a person unless they're looking right at it in good light
<diplo> Its been a few years mind now, they could have gone downhill :D
<czajkowski> we have some cheap ones in the garden for watching the hens
<czajkowski> works a treat
<czajkowski> we also have one night time one also which is motion detected.
<popey> but if it's just for keeping an eye, the cheapo ones are okay
<diplo> http://www.axis.com/products/cam_210/
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<diplo> Are the ones you used all over and we had higher quality ones for specific areas and night vision ones for other areas
<daftykins> just saw a 210 on ebay for Â£80 each :>
<diplo> Actually used the footage a few times for the police
<daftykins> erk!
<diplo> About 200-300 each new from memory ?
<daftykins> central hotspot eh? ;)
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Nah it was actually Jewsons on the back of us, there was a gap between us and them and the bad people used to use that area ( the camera was hidden )
<daftykins> magic, well thanks all i'll give that a gander
<awilkins> ?? apport just reported that /sbin/init crashed
<awilkins> How is my computer still up?
<awilkins> Out of stack.. .probably because I got an Ant job to run a squillion copies of jarsigner simultaneously
<wifihelp> good morning UK :)
<wifihelp> Someone know how I can see my network signal??
<wifihelp> Wifi signal quality..
<popey> kismet is quite good for that
<popey> needs a little configuring
<wifihelp> I know airodump-ng can do it..
<wifihelp> but i want something that simple..
<awilkins> wifi-rader
<awilkins> radat
<awilkins> ARRGAGHAG
<awilkins> widi-radar
<awilkins> Oh for heavens sakes
 * awilkins slaps self
<awilkins> wifi-radar
<wifihelp> iwlist can do it nice, but i dont know how to get only one SSID
 * popey also slaps awilkins 
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> doesn't kismet still exist?
<daftykins> !info kismet
<lubotu3> kismet (source: kismet): wireless sniffer and monitor - core. In component universe, is optional. Version 2013.03.R1b-3 (utopic), package size 1918 kB, installed size 4682 kB
<daftykins> sure does
<wifihelp> I need CLI tool..
<wifihelp> ubuntu server...
<popey> kismet is a cli tool.
 * daftykins tuts
<popey> nm-tool gives you a basic output
<wifihelp> I know.. but It's OVER KILL to run it only to get signal quality..
<popey> so maybe use nm-tool?
<daftykins> we're giving options, you can make sense of them as you will
<wifihelp> nm-tool only work if you are connected...
<daftykins> maybe if you gave us an idea of what you're trying to achieve, we can advise better
<wifihelp> make script that will show me signal quality of specific AP.
<popey> no
<popey> nm-tool shows all access points
<popey> well, last time I tried it did
<popey> now it's not showing anything here
<daftykins> oh dear, my cat just saw neighbour cat through the window again
<wifihelp> popey: you can show me what to do with nm-tool.
<popey> well, it's not working here, which I'm looking into
<popey> how about "iwlist scan" ?
<popey> that shows every access point and signal
<wifihelp> popey: I'm really love the iwlist.
<wifihelp> but i can make it spesific..
<popey> que?
<awilkins> Anyone else running into occasions when /dev/random just doesn't have enough entropy in it?
<popey> awilkins: yeah, you can buy entroy keys / devices
<wifihelp> so I'm get lots of networks..
<awilkins> Doing a Java build that signs a lot of jars. jarsigner eats /dev/random
<Myrtti> $timeofday
<awilkins> Have installed `randomsound`
<wifihelp> there is a war to parse it?
<awilkins> Which samples your mike for whitenoise and injects entropy from that
<awilkins> Built time without : 30 minutes plus
<awilkins> Build time with : 2 minutes
<popey> wifihelp: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=88967 looks handy
<wifihelp> popey: in ubuntu iwlist looks crazy!!
<popey> sudo wpa_cli scan_results
<popey> thats also neat
<popey> much easier to read
<wifihelp> look very nice..
<wifihelp> but I'm getting the signal in DB
<wifihelp> what is -68 in present?
<daftykins> 'present' ?
<daftykins> wifihelp: seriously, what are you trying to achieve... it'd make this to-and-fro so much easier
<wifihelp> there is a problem with "wpa_cli scan_results"
<wifihelp> It's not update in real time..
<daftykins> watch -n 0.1 'wpa_cli scan_results'
<daftykins> or something
<daftykins> wifihelp: so c'mon, gonna share what you're up to to make life easier on us? :)
<wifihelp> monitor some network
<daftykins> ...
<wifihelp> be able to see any drops / problems and make log
<popey> better using something like kismet â»
<popey> it has this stuff built in â»
<daftykins> ^
<wifihelp> sudo apt-get install kissmet ?
<wifihelp> or there is a better way?
<wifihelp> 26 sec..
<daftykins> kismet
<daftykins> no that way is fine, that's how you install software CLI
<wifihelp> 14 sec..
<daftykins> it's only 1918KB.
<daftykins> are you on 56k? :D
<wifihelp> I mean like ppa or compile the last version...
<daftykins> neither are the ubuntu way
<popey> just installed it here. works nicely. not use it for a while.
<daftykins> neat
<popey> https://imgur.com/4AvWglk sweet!
<daftykins> how rude!
<daftykins> neighbours i presume? :>
<popey> yeah
<Myrtti> popping candy chocolate â¥
<popey> hmm. pork scratching belch
<Myrtti> ew
<MooDoo> :)
<daftykins> there used to be these really nice biltong packets in a local pub, but they've not been sold for months now :(
<diddledan> morning
<popey> moin
<daftykins> o/
<awilkins> High quality jerky is hard to come by
<awilkins> There's a stall in Leeds market that does nice biltong (vouched for by a SA expat) for nice prices
<wifihelp> how i can make a loop in bash that run only 5 times?
<daftykins> yeah my mates dad is from SA so they know the good stuff apparently :>
<awilkins> Have considered making my own
<awilkins> wifihelp, for I in $(seq 0 4) ; do echo stuff ; done
<wifihelp> mmm
<wifihelp> work!
<shauno> I gotta say, the ubuntu software center is kinda .. odd
<shauno> eg, it seems it won't actually remove libreoffice
<bashrc> maybe it got attached to it
<daftykins> ^ couldn't stand to see it go
<diddledan> dammit, linkedin just spammed my entire addressbook
<diddledan> uncheck the people you don't want to send message to, linkedin will still spam them
<daftykins> =[
<shauno> why does linkedin have your address book?
<diddledan> well, see, here's the thing. they tell you they won't spam people
<shauno> but they've been lying since day 1.
<diddledan> specific text used: " We'll never email anyone without your permission."
<diddledan> they seem to take permission ot email one person as permission to email everyone
<shauno> I guess you gave them permission to 'email anyone'
<shauno> and now it'll be asking them to recommend your bricklaying skills on your behalf or something :)
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> I'm a good bricklayer, btw
<shauno> btw, what's the browser that seems to just name itself "web browser" ?
<diddledan> no idea
<shauno> I think it's going to be easier just to figure out how to build kicad on osx
<shauno> I'd love to know where this thing thinks my apostrophe key is :/
<shauno> ahhh.  it's on alt-b.  which also seems to open up some launcher thingie.
<diddledan> eh? what are you using/doing?
<mapp> still not figured out why my stupid pi turns off
<diddledan> mapp, turns off completely or reboobs?
<diddledan> as in power-cycle reboob
<diddledan> I've found that plugging or unplugging a usb device on one of mine will cause it to reboob but once it's back-up the usb I plugged-in works as expected
<bigcalm> mapp: power supply not up to the job?
<shauno> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7nru1dwTwk
<diddledan> shauno, well it's your fault for having a weird gf :-p
<diddledan> really we need to make the slovaks(it was slovak?) speak english then it'll make much more sense
<shauno> that's not slovak, it's the "mac international" layout
<shauno> well
<shauno> that's what it says on the tin
<diddledan> yeah, but you've done it so that you can type weird things
<shauno> heh, no, I've done it so it has the keys in the same place as my laptop :)
<diddledan> eww
<diddledan> your laptop isn't british english?
<shauno> that appears to be equally hilarious
<diddledan> oh, well then you're **ggered
<diddledan> the ubuntu keylayout for british english mac is close enough
<diddledan> the ` is on the wrong key tho
<shauno> ooh, oh no, uk mac has an apostrophe on the apostrophe key!
<diddledan> the ` and Â§ keys are back asswards
<shauno> uk mac international has a grave accent
<shauno> (which does not correspond to any keyboard apple have made this side of osx)
<shauno> hm.  but no # key
<shauno> I ...
<diddledan> # is alt+3
<diddledan> just the same as os x
<diddledan> shift+3 on us layout
<shauno> alt-3 is doing something odd in bash, it's giving me a prompt (arg:3)
<diddledan> right-alt
<diddledan> ubuntu likes to use the two alts independantly
<shauno> ooh, so it is
<diddledan> so left-alt+3 is similar to ctrl+3 in that it executes a shortcut, right-alt+3 does alternative keybinding
<shauno> left-alt is meta?
<diddledan> nope, the cmd key is still meta
<shauno> hm.
<diddledan> left-alt does things with menus in gui
<shauno> this would be much more logical if it actually used the alt key as an alt key, instead of trying to emulate whatever quackery windows uses it for
<diddledan> left-alt+f opens the file menu for example, whereas right-alt+f does Ä
<shauno> (eg, the reason it says 'alternate' rather than 'menu' on it)
<shauno> so the alternate f is Æ, not File
<diddledan> o_O right-alt+f gives me "Ä"
<shauno> lol
<shauno> so I need to find a keyboard layout that's basically the US layout on an iso keyboard
<diddledan> this is with "uk, macintosh"
<shauno> yeah, I'm not typing this from ubuntu
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> you suck then :-p
<shauno> well, if I can get ubuntu to support keyboards, maybe I could ;)
 * diddledan "presents" ready for the suckage
<diddledan> oh myyy
<diddledan> family friendly
<diddledan> family friendlyu
 * diddledan starts rocking slightly while repeating that over and over
<shauno> btw, have you ever seen the slovak keymap?
<diddledan> I'm not sure I even want to try
<shauno> it's hilarious.  they stuck more letters on the top row.  so the digit 1 is shift-1
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> yeah, they're all wackos
<diddledan> what's wrong with western a-z and that's it?!
<shauno> hm.  luckily this doesn't seem to understand what a no-break space is, because the slovak keymap is using it instead of a regular space
<shauno> I don't suppose there's an option anywhere to get left-alt to act as alt?  or at least switch the two alt keys?
<popey> que?
<popey> left alt _is_ alt
<shauno> well, eg; trying to use kicad - the shortcut for zoom out is alt+f2
<diddledan> popey, not on the macintosh layouts at least - left-alt operates the application menus, whereas the right-alt does things like accented characters
<shauno> if I do left-alt + f2 I get a dash style window saying 'run a command', right-alt + f2 zooms out
<popey> ho ho ho
<shauno> I'm not using a mac layout atm - I gave up on that.  I'm using English (US) currently because I figured it'd be one people have actually used
<diddledan> I can't believe gamergate is still a thing
<diddledan> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/01/06/gamergate-critic-swatted-about-20-cops-go-to-old-address/
<diddledan> I still haven't managed to work out what the two supposedly opposing viewpoints are and which side holds which view
<diddledan> graffiti is completely out of control: https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10906126_1011621208858890_7750560742328629258_n.jpg?oh=e83f5ee697fa6c04e3dc9ea67b90a7cd&oe=5541D46B
<ali12341> diddledan: there are no "viewpoints", it's just a playground fight between a bunch of kids and a bunch of people who act like kids
<diddledan> so if there are no viewpoints how can one be pro gamergate or against gamergate?
<diddledan> e.g the girl in the sophos link I posted
<diddledan> she apparently changed sides
<ali12341> easy, you just say you've changed sides?
<diddledan> I just don't understand
<diddledan> my brain is too small
<ali12341> there is nothing to understand
<diddledan> if it really is as frivolous as that to have no ideological decision then why are there incidents where the SWAT are called-in?
<diddledan> devisiion**
<diddledan> division**
<ali12341> because that is the kind of thing children do
<diddledan> that isn't an explanation, that's a get-out
<ali12341> well, what more explanation do you want?
<diddledan> ok, brian in his basement is on one side. what justification does he come up with in his puny mind to swat some random internet dweller and why does he choose that particular internetist
<ali12341> brian is twelve and has absolutely no impulse control
<ali12341> or perhaps more accurately, brian is 18-30, has no job and no chance of getting one, is forced to live with parents, and basically has nothing to lose
<diddledan> there has to be some decision over who to swat though, so what is he using for his comparison between potentials to decide who is most "worthy"?
<ali12341> if you read the article, the decision was made by whoever's post ended in doubles
<ali12341> if you're not familiar with 4chan, every post has a numeric ID
<ali12341> if the ID ends in the same two digits it's "doubles" and considered lucky
<diddledan> and breaking it down to "well they're on the other side" - when someone ascribes to a side what logic are they using to decide which side they want to be part of?
<diddledan> and if one is a "gamergate critic" what exactly are you being critical of?
<ali12341> gamergate critics are left-wing progressive pseudo-intellectuals
<ali12341> gamegate supporters are basically tea-party republicans except not 60 years old
<ali12341> you might as well ask how people decide who to vote for
<diddledan> no
<ali12341> no?
<diddledan> deciding who to vote for is a personal morality choice based on what each party says they're going to work on in the next term
<diddledan> political parties have ideals - you're saying gamergate and non-gamergate don't
<ali12341> lol yeah right
<ali12341> do honestly you think the majority of people actually choose a political party that way?
<ali12341> no, (anti)GG both have ideals, they are in fact both hardcore idealists
<ali12341> but hardcore idealism is stupid and always has been
<diddledan> <ali12341> diddledan: there are no "viewpoints"
<diddledan> surely your two statements there are contra
<ali12341> there is always a viewpoint of some kind
<ali12341> due to the subjective nature of reality
<ali12341> that is individual to each person though
<ali12341> in fact each side attempts to stereotype the other, to boil down the wide range of viewpoint the other holds, and that is the source of most of the animosity
<diddledan> ok. which side should I join?
<ali12341> neither
<diddledan> which side holds closest to my ideology?
<ali12341> i hope neither of them
<diddledan> ok, a different question: what is it that each side hates about the other?
<ali12341> in general or specifically?
<ali12341> in general the answer is the same as what the left wing and the right wing hate about each other
<diddledan> so it's socialism vs capitalism?
<ali12341> no, it's the other axis on the political compass
<ali12341> because that is an economic argument
<ali12341> while this is about social policy
<daftykins> damn it diddledan, this topic again? ;)
<ali12341> it's progressive vs conservative
<diddledan> aah, gays getting married vs damned for eternity?
<ali12341> yeah that kind of stuff
<ali12341> do you remember the gay cake row from last year?
<diddledan> I say up gay rights. and up yours, too.
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> </carry-on>
<diddledan> daftykins, run. run away.
<daftykins> i'm a pedallin'!
<diddledan> I really don't like not being able to quantify something
<ali12341> are you familiar with reddit at all?
 * daftykins makes a rude gesture regarding reddit
<ali12341> i mean the history of the site
<daftykins> please go on, even though i'm hijacking the convo
<diddledan> I know it exists and is generally completely useless when it shows up in a google resultset
<ali12341> well, i' not going to attempt to explain it
<shauno> daftykins: oh do hijack it it - save us all!
<ali12341> it's a large and complex issue
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<ali12341> but a lot of it stems from there
<bashrc> Is Ubuntu Good for Gaming? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_dhe5zSjI
<diddledan> bashrc, yes
<daftykins> i think *that* topic should be left in 2014
<ali12341> lol that video
<shauno> my understanding is that one side are trying to make a somewhat reasonable point, but the most vocal of them are making it in a very unreasonable manner
<ali12341> shauno: that applies to both sides
<shauno> and the other side are completeing missing this point because said 'unreasonable manner' is so distractacting
<bashrc> some of those videos are hillarious
<ali12341> they almost perfectly mirror each other, actually
<daftykins> i can't get past the voices personally
<bashrc> and the cheesy smile
<diddledan> huh. I don't get that video
<ali12341> the thing is, nobody sensible wants anything to do with either side. and rightly so
<diddledan> which side of gamergate is it on, bashrc ? :-p
<bashrc> I've no idea, just found it funny
<daftykins> diddledan: careful, we don't want to have a chat about cartoon cleavage
<bashrc> the elevator music in the background too
<diddledan> it doesn't make much sense as a conversation
<daftykins> so did anyone have anything interesting happen today?
<bashrc> exactly
<shauno> I tried to use ubuntu today :)  that was interesting.  and funny.  and sad.
<daftykins> shauno: oh my, how so?
<bashrc> why sad?
<shauno> I had to get diddledan to help me figure out how to type an apostrophe :|
<diddledan> lol
<ali12341> that's only because you have a silly mac keyboard
<bashrc> ugh
<bashrc> still, if you can run ubuntu on a mac then that's a win
<shauno> oh it was in a VM.  I still can't get it working sensibly on bare metal.  that's a much longer story  lol
<diddledan> I've never had problems running ubuntu on any mac I've owned
<bashrc> how old is the hardware?
<shauno> 2011
<bashrc> so not that old, I expect ubuntu would run pretty well
<bashrc> although being in a VM would slow it down
<shauno> I think it's actually better in a VM
<shauno> leaving OSX in charge of the power management works out a whole lot better
<bashrc> I'd eliminate the closed source middle OS
<shauno> ideally.  but the free OS is has lousy power management
<shauno> if I remove the 2nd hdd & stick an optical drive back in there (I said it was a long story :), I can install it with bios emulation
<daftykins> ubuntu is said to vary wildly on macs
<shauno> that way, my main issues are that trackpad support is still sorely lacking, and the lack of control over the gmux means it's hot & hungry (buh byes battery)
<diddledan> I wonder if I worked out which board had the ram chips in my mac and I soldered bigger ones on in their stead whether I would have a working macbook pro with moar rams or a doorstop
<daftykins> ah yes, picky EFI only gives up certain things to a MBR emulated install?
<shauno> yeah.  the gmux is accessed via the efi.  it simply can't touch it at all via bios emulation
<shauno> (the switching circuitry for the gpus)
<daftykins> that an optimus one?
<diddledan> apple
<shauno> afiak apple have their own magic for this bit (it's the same deal whether you have amd or nvidia)
<shauno> but back when I tried this, my battery lasted for 8-9 hours under OSX, ~2 hours under XP, and 30-40 minutes under linux
<daftykins> oh not nvidia optimus
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> that old 2007 macbook i tried? both xubuntu and ubuntu 14.04 had wildly wrong keyboard layouts
<shauno> yeah.  that's what I was having fun with this afternoon
<shauno> I have every belief whoever wrote those keymaps, has no idea what a mac is, let alone which keys are where.
<daftykins> and the touchpad would only move the pointer if you laid down a whole finger segment at once
<zmoylan-pi> or wanted to make rich macbook owners suffer :-)
<shauno> I've been trying on & off for years to boot with efi, which should solve the power issue.  but so far I can't get the screen to turn on
<mapp> just starteds watching american mary..sounds interesting
<daftykins> every laptop i tried out a Linux on i never saw good battery life, never really believed it was possible to get it to match the Windows being on
<shauno> the first laptop I put linux on, I could get suspend-to-disk working, but not resume-from-disk.  every laptop I've owned since has been a mac, so it's never got much better  heh
<shauno> anyway.  wasn't meant to be a rant, I was just taking dafty's bait for a topic change :)
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> my current system is hp netbook from when netbooks were a thing a few years back.  gets 12 hours on xubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> such a slow processor though...
<daftykins> mmhmm, you must either be a very patient man, or very bald ;)
<daftykins> ok i gotta run, nn all \o
<diddledan> oh, so you're the one who bought a netbook then?
<daftykins> diddledan: ^5
<zmoylan-pi> everyone bought netbooks for their kids.  i wanted one for me as it suits me better than full laptop
<diddledan> short legs?
<zmoylan-pi> long commute on public transport
<diddledan> aah
<zmoylan-pi> my sony laptop couldn't handle dublin bus
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008AIBJFE/ novel
<diddledan> https://plus.google.com/u/0/110631631855327986587/posts/8ysMDHLYjGX?pid=6101252548880195474&oid=110631631855327986587
<diddledan> popey, that only works if you're awake during the day to open the curtains :-p
<popey> kitchen has no curtains â»
<popey> and is south facing
<zmoylan-pi> it sat in back back with 2" towel below it (hitchhikers fan) 1" on all sides and .5" on top.  case cracked by emergency stop while i was on top deck.
<diddledan> the text-adventure p0rn looks exciting: http://gizmodo.com/2-400-ms-dos-games-are-now-free-online-some-of-them-ar-1677816759?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
<diddledan> so you can download any of the games available at archive.org by taking the "stream" url and ripping off the ?query-string bits and replacing the first directory of /stream/ to /cors/
<diddledan> e.g. simcity: https://archive.org/stream/msdos_SimCity_1989/SimCity_1989.zip?module=dosbox&scale=2 becomes: https://archive.org/cors/msdos_SimCity_1989/SimCity_1989.zip
<zmoylan-pi> i played that a lot...
<zmoylan-pi> found it on a customers pc
<ali12341> duke nukem 3d is on the current humble bundle for native linux on steam
<shauno> there's a *lot* of that kinda stuff on archive.org
<diddledan> shauno, see my gizmodo link above
<diddledan> 2400 dos games
<zmoylan-pi> you could have that on a 7" tablet...
<shauno> diddledan: that's nothing :)   try https://archive.org/details/tosec
<diddledan> wow, 3.6TB
<diddledan> 466k items
<zmoylan-pi> could take a while to find what you want
<shauno> and it'll quite happily give you, eg, a 31GB zip of everything they have for the amiga
<shauno> "back in my day" 'abandonware' sites were dodgy  lol
<diddledan> yeah, hotu was my goto site
<diddledan> home-of-the-underdogs
<zmoylan-pi> world of spectrum was where i went for the classics
<shauno> (there's also https://archive.org/details/internetarcade )
<diddledan> they look to be downloadable with my method above
<shauno> I'm sure if you mangle the right url, it'll probably just give you a zip of everything :)
<zmoylan-pi> 3.6tb in a zip... this a job for winzip!! :-P
<diddledan> lol @ three stooges arcade "stand in front of the stooge you want to be, and wiggle his joystick"
<zmoylan-pi> though i suspect i have a floppy with pkunzip.exe 2.04g here on a floppy if i really really looked
<shauno> lol dan .. well they say you coming
<shauno> er, *saw
<diddledan> the msdos games - I have managed to get it to give me this: https://ia601408.us.archive.org/3/items/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/
<diddledan> e.g. the .torrent
<shauno> no you haven't
<diddledan> hmm, the torrent only includes the files in that folder tho - so useless
<shauno> :)
<shauno> it's way too small to even include hashes for all those files, let alone the droids you're looking for
<m0nkey_> Greetings from Burlington ON
<diddledan> what you doing in burlington?
<shauno> stealing wifis
<m0nkey_> Lol
<diddledan> I'm sure his own wifi won't approve of that
<zmoylan-pi> ungrateful hussie
<diddledan> just don't suggest wifi swapping
<m0nkey_> I'm here for work. In the middle of nowhere.
<diddledan> joy
<shauno> isn't everywhere in canadia the middle of nowhere?
<m0nkey_> Unless you're in a city... Yes, it is
<shauno> I had a customer phone up trying to find batteries for a norwegian UPS .. in nova scotia
<shauno> this was my lesson in "good lord, there's *nothing there at all*"
<m0nkey_> Oh and the previous occupant of this hotel room forgot some skimpy underwear.
<shauno> it's all just trees, moose and poutine
<diddledan> m0nkey_, try it on
<m0nkey_> Too small for me. Whoever she was, she was slim.
<diddledan> maybe she left in a hurry
<m0nkey_> Maybe
<diddledan> the dude's wife probably turned up
<shauno> or a black binbag</clarkson>
<diddledan> o_O
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-07
<m0nkey_> Oh and damn WestJet for canceling my morning flight. Didn't leave until noon. That eats into my time to learn stuff.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci0Pihl2zXY
<diddledan> wikipedia - what did we edit in 2014 ^^
<diddledan> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11327571/Leap-second-French-time-lords-add-one-second-to-2015.html
<diddledan> who knew that time lords were french?!
<diddledan> tell that to the doc
 * zmoylan-pi thanks the day i decided never to allow a clock in the house that doesn't use radio signal to update
<plasmaxbox> how can i reinstall refresh my copy of ubutu
<diddledan> reinstall the same way you installed in the first place
<plasmaxbox> lol
<diddledan> ok, so, antman. wtf, marvel?!
<mapp> ANOTHER DAY
<mapp> ANOTHER 10PINTS DOWN
<mapp> ;)
<MooDoo> hows every this morning?
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> lets try and predict what james tait will say today is when he arrives...
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Old Rock Day! :-)
<JamesTait> D'oh!
<MooDoo> i wouldn't of thought he'dd be talking about davmor2 as soon as he got in ;)
<popey> dammit
<popey> I expected Pioneers Day
<popey> Or indeed Christmas.
<davmor2> JamesTait: \o/ old rock is the best rock \o/
<JamesTait> I almost went with I'm Not Going To Take It Any More Day.
<popey> heh
<JamesTait> davmor2, this day relates to the geological type, though.
<awilkins> Those gosh darned new rocks, swanning round the place like they own it, only been here a few million years
<awilkins> Some folks these days, they're not even igneous! Chalk, even! Would you give yourselves airs and graces if I could use you to draw with?
<DJones> awilkins: Are you quoting the text of a Discworld book (Maybe Thud!)
<awilkins> Just from memory. A bit.
<awilkins> Not sure it's Thud, feels like an early one
<awilkins> Might be from The Light Fantastic when Rincewind encounters the trolls
<popey> ho ho http://www.gamespot.com/articles/danish-government-creates-entire-country-in-minecraft-users-promptly-blow-it-up-and-plant-american-flag/1100-6419412/
<ali12341> at least they got the scale right
<DJones> awilkins: I thought I recognised it anyway, Sgt Detritus if memory serves me right
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> so apple hates vim... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6tTSK_IAAAB9qm.png:large
<popey> you know that's an artist render?
<popey> not an actual photo of a device
<zmoylan-pi> oh, thank goodness.  sorry for posting wrong information...
<DJones> I can understand why Apple's wouldn't like Vim though, putting a kitchen scouring powder into you're apple crumble won't make it taste very nice :)
 * DJones shows his age in knowing what Vim is
<zmoylan-pi> be quiet or i'll condem you to edlin :-)
<DJones> Heh
<bigcalm> Morning intrbiz
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Just trying to remember what I used coding on Apple II's
<bigcalm> I am amazed by DPD's tracking service. Why can't all delivery companies be so good?
<Myrtti> it's not that good in Finland.
<bigcalm> Sam is currently making delivery number 22, you are delivery number 44. Sam is approximately 1 hour 30 minutes away from you.
<Myrtti> mind you, that system has a flaw: if the delivery would be arriving earlier than the estimate, he'll have to wait at your door until the clock strikes the estimate
<Myrtti> I once offered the delivery guy a mug of tea while he waited
<bigcalm> Has that ever happened?
<bigcalm> Goodness
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning and happy new year
<bigcalm> intrbiz: aye, likewise :)
<christel> yeah, i once had a bloke having to wait because the handheld thingie wouldn't let him have me sign for the item early! :)
<zmoylan-pi> so he had time to file a bug report...
<ali12341> wow, ethan lee is at agdq
<popey> ali12341: ahh, i wondered what that photo of his legs was supposed to be
<ali12341> i didn't know rogue legacy was even ported
<bigcalm> davmor2: see twitter
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you not see the new one?
<bigcalm> davmor2: no
<bigcalm> davmor2: Link and release date?
<bigcalm> I had to order this from Italy for a princely sum :(
<popey> "had to" â»
 * bigcalm nods
<davmor2> bigcalm: it was in the xmas catalog http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/TIE-Advanced-Prototype-75082?fromListing=listing
<bigcalm> Goodness
<bigcalm> Not sure I like the look of it
<popey> how much was it from italy?
<bigcalm> popey: I had one click amazon enabled on my phone (now disabled)
<bigcalm> popey: item cost was about 45 quid
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> popey: p&p was about 54 quid
<popey> thats not so bad
<popey> expected you to say 80-100
<bigcalm> I don't think I would have spent 100 on the tie fighter
<popey> 70 from amazon.de
<popey> sam would love that
<bigcalm> Want to buy one from the UK? ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> let me raid his piggy bank â»
<zmoylan-pi> is the piggybank made from lego...
<Myrtti> oh meh. turns out there's two kinds of XPS 13's
<bigcalm> Myrtti: one with a good screen, one with a pish screen?
<Myrtti> one with 90W thick barrel power plug, and another with 45W thinner one
<Myrtti> I now have a laptop of the latter kind and a power brick of the first kind
<bigcalm> Poop
<Myrtti> time to do an Amazon return...
<Myrtti> on the plus side, I now have two Totoro laptop stickers
<Myrtti> just have to pick which one I'll plop on the laptop
<bigcalm> I have a Totoro plushie with a missing nostril
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BFUVYZE or http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HAA4H6G
<popey> not sure I'd put stickers on a dell
<popey> maybe one big ubuntu one
<zmoylan-pi> to hide the dell logo :-)
<popey> ya
<popey> i have a big roundel one on my thinkpad
<Myrtti> I just like Totoros
<popey> oh those stickers are nice
<popey> remind me of that cat
<zmoylan-pi> only sticky thing on my laptop is band aid covering webcam
<Myrtti> I use mine...
<popey> Pusheen
<Myrtti> Totoro > Pusheen
<zmoylan-pi> it's there if i want it, but definitely not functional when i'm not using it
<Myrtti> I do love my new laptop
<Myrtti> great piece of kit this is
<Myrtti> this is 8th Dell I've used and I've not had too many troubles with any of them
<bigcalm> I'm very happy with my dell
<MartijnVdS> I considered a Dell once. But then it started singing?
<Myrtti> Did anyone happen to have a spare Ubuntu sticker about the size of a Dell logo :-P
<Myrtti> I don't mind paying two quid for the stickers but four pounds for posting them is a bit rich for me
 * popey looks
<popey> seems not
<bigcalm> Myrtti: if you have an inkjet printer, you could print out your own Ubuntu logos on http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Clear-Sticker-Paper-Sheets/dp/B004BF8X2W
<Myrtti> nope, I gave up on inkjet eons ago
<zmoylan-pi> but i use those to print out images of power sockets and stick them to walls in public spaces... :-)
<Myrtti> I'll just order the stickers from the shop.
<Myrtti> there, done.
<bigcalm> ê¸
<Myrtti> this week seems to be "Myrtti orders everything online" week
<popey> ê¸
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Came across that while trying to find the ubuntu logo
<popey> http://launchpad.net/~popey
<popey> there's one
<popey> î¿
<awilkins> I tend to just hairdryer off all the Intel and Windows stickers on my laptops and leave it at that
<Myrtti> I just let mine fall off when they do
<Myrtti> but on the lid...
<ChunkzZ> anyone lost a Â£10 note? :p
<diddledan> probably old news to some of you - france: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: there's more: http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/23528833/___Auto_ontploft_bij_Franse_synagoge___.html
<MartijnVdS> (warning: Dutch)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but.. so sad :(
<intrbiz> the sad power of religious indoctrination
<shauno> that's mind-bending - I was in Paris last week
 * diddledan resists offensive "bender" comment
<awilkins> No! Don't avoid offending! Or the TERRISTS WIN.
 * MartijnVdS offends.
<intrbiz> offence is taken, not given
<DJones> popey: Are you around?
 * MartijnVdS takes intrbiz' fence
<intrbiz> :)
<popey> DJones: ya
<DJones> Think I found the answer, somebody was asking about ubuntu mates official status in #u
<popey> yeah, "not yet"
<DJones> Thats where I'd got to
<BigRedS> What's the current blessed XMPP client in Ubuntu? Both Pidgin and Empathy seem broken, which should I try to fix? :)
<Azelphur> I like Pidgin? why is it broken?
<BigRedS> It's convinced it is unable to validate our XMPP server's certificate
<ali12341> pidgin is the default in xubuntu, empathy is the default in unity
<Azelphur> strange
<ali12341> pidgin works fine for me
<BigRedS> yeah, I use it everywhere, but I've got this laptop where Pidgin dislikes SSL *and* cleartext and Empathyu always needs to be reminded to log in
<BigRedS> ah, I can export the certs from a working pidgin and import them into the broken one.
<daftykins> :D
<BigRedS> weird. Maybe newer pidgins don't like our certs enough to automatically deal with it for some reason
<daftykins> yay i just registered my costa club card with their website and got the android app working :P
<MartijnVdS> woohoo. more coffee! :P
<diddledan> caffeine coma!
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> we had two local branches for over 2 years before they got hooked up to the coffee club system
<daftykins> i'm running folding@home on my CPU and GPU today to help warm the room quicker :P
 * SuperEngineer patents "Caffeine Coma" & opens new chain of rails coffee houses
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: has your AMD box been locking up more?
<diddledan> daftykins, I cleaned the heatsink and it appears to be stable again
<diddledan> there was a layer of dust preventing any airflow from the fan actually doing anything useful
<daftykins> oh dear!
<ChunkzZ> anyone know where I can get an iPad unlocked to all networks in the UK?
<diddledan> it's idling about 35C now
<diddledan> instead of 70C
<diddledan> ChunkzZ, apple.com?
<daftykins> \o/
<ChunkzZ> :/
<daftykins> ChunkzZ: questionable request, that
<diddledan> yeah, this isn't #applewhores
<diddledan> :-p
<ChunkzZ> it's a UK channel, I asked a UK question.
<diddledan> sorry, I let the terrorists win
<diddledan> referential/memory comedy ftw
<Myrtti> tsk.
<diddledan> ChunkzZ, this is first and foremost an ubuntu channel
<daftykins> *rolleyes*
<Myrtti> it's not really that hard to find someone, anyway
<Myrtti> a bit of effort is required
<diddledan> Myrtti, indeed
<diddledan> Myrtti, *open browser. type apple.com. press enter.*
<ChunkzZ> diddledan, sigh.
<Myrtti> or "go to a shopping mall, bypass the dead sea cosmetics, scarf and dreamcatcher and loft insulation salespeople and go to the bloke fixing broken screens and doing unlockings"
<SuperEngineer> ...or open a map to see which town/city you live in. Once found, append "street market" to name... go there
<daftykins> ChunkzZ: no, sigh at your attitude bringing that topic onto freenode.
<ChunkzZ> fuck sake I only asked a question, didn't know I was being done for murder..............
<diddledan> !language
<lubotu3> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<SuperEngineer> &
<SuperEngineer> it's a family channel!
<popey> Lets start again shall we?
<diddledan> yes, lets
<ujjain> let's !!
<ujjain> start again, start again
<SuperEngineer> +1
<ali12341> okay
 * diddledan cuddles popey the master of all things sane
<ujjain> I'm at the office Sundays to Thursdays from 08:00 to 17:00 <  is this proper English?
<popey> first we need a big bang i think.
<diddledan> popey, this is a family channel! :-p
<popey> ujjain: good enough for government work
<zmoylan-pi> first the earth cooled...
<ali12341> ChunkzZ: do you want to buy an already unlocked ipad, or do you want to unlock the one you have?
<popey> then the dinosaurs came!
<popey> but they got big and fat..
<zmoylan-pi> i love that movie!! \o/
<popey> me too â»
<ujjain> popey hahaha :D
<ChunkzZ> ali12341, to buy one that's locked to EE
<ChunkzZ> but dm,
<ChunkzZ> thanks for your help
<diddledan> o_O
<Myrtti> "life is"
<diddledan> Myrtti, I like chocolates
<diddledan> I find chocolates are like life
<diddledan> you never know what you gonna get
<daftykins> i see #ubuntu-uk 's English classes are still running :>
<zmoylan-pi> i always read the inlay on box of choccies. i always know what i'm going to get
<popey> i just eat them all
<diddledan> ^^ +1
<popey> there has yet to be a chocolate I don't like
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... well... i do that too... but i still know...
<Myrtti> I just buy a box with only one kind in it
<daftykins> Myrtti: that's boring :(
<zmoylan-pi> depends on the choccies
<Myrtti> no, it's looovely
<daftykins> i'm not too fond of orange ones
<zmoylan-pi> i did get through a tin of emeralds over crimbo...
<daftykins> anyone ever tried Chilli chcolate? that's a bit weird
<zmoylan-pi> more a test of endurance?
<popey> I had marmite chocolate
<popey> i love marmite
<daftykins> D:
<popey> marmite chocolate was difficult
<diddledan> >.<
<zmoylan-pi> and guinness made a chocolate that a mate tried last year
 * diddledan winces
<popey> dont think i finished the bar
<zmoylan-pi> he didn't like it, but he finished it...
<BigRedS> I had garlic chocolate the other day
<BigRedS> that was odd
<daftykins> doh, my home insurance renewal letter came in today :(
<popey> any of you played MinuteQuest on Android?
<daftykins> nope
<popey> its quite cute
<SuperEngineer> "hot chocolate, drinking chocolate" [for those that remember]
<daftykins> does it allow progress on a per minute basis, hence the name?
<popey> its small
<popey> so that meaning of minute â»
<daftykins> d'aww
<SuperEngineer> Android: a device famous for shouting "Danger, Will Scarlet, danger!"
<diddledan> oooh, minute, not minute
<SuperEngineer> ..or was thar Robinson ;)
<daftykins> ah, my newt
<zmoylan-pi> oh the shame, the shame...
<SuperEngineer> :D
 * Laney waits for the heating to come on
<Laney> any minute now ...
<diddledan> Laney, I'm chillywilly, too
<diddledan> bloomin' seasons
<zmoylan-pi> i used to like chillywillie ice pops as a kid
<Laney> I bought a Nest over the hols, bloke's coming to put it in tomorrow
<Laney> that'll be fun
<diddledan> how dare winter. how very dare it.
<Laney> being able to turn it on using me phone
<diddledan> that sounds awesome!
<zmoylan-pi> i can throw my dump nokia at switch on wall to turn on heating already :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *dumb
<Laney> ah
<Laney> here we go
<Laney> socks off, feet on radiator
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> that's bad for your feet
<Laney> thanks dad
 * SuperEngineer has just checked amount spent via paypal last month...
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, that's a bad idea
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, it's a common cause of heart attack
<SuperEngineer> ...even after deducting the Â£35 Linux Voice sub - that Steam sale proved "expensive"
<SuperEngineer> ..but fun!
<diddledan> linux voice ftw
<SuperEngineer> diddledan, +1
<diddledan> linux format tends to be about appeasing commercial overlords rather than promoting freedom
<diddledan> I think that's even more evident now the team doesn't have the linuxvoice dudes trying to keep it sane
<SuperEngineer> and annoyingly - it still appears on racks more than the real magazine
<zmoylan-pi> my mag racks have format and voice in equal numbers these days
<SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi, your mafia must be better than my mafia
<zmoylan-pi> ireland is weird for mags as there are only 2 companies that import them.  one has 95% of market and one has 5%
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i don't even know where i'd go to find magazines here, supermarket ones would be very limited
<daftykins> probably have to manually request them
<zmoylan-pi> but they're not proud and if there was demand for 100 trainspotter mags they'd import and flog them
<SuperEngineer> England has a similatr arrangement.  You vcan either beg your local stockist or you tell them you're gonna "send the boys" round
<diddledan> chrome has an ssh client available in beta now - using nacl - made by googley and available in the chromestore
<daftykins> Well this is a new issue on me, the boss' secretary is spending a month in Australia at the moment, so she has a laptop with her work email on there. Creating calendar entries is getting all confused between timezones :D
<diddledan> oh joy
<zmoylan-pi> swap to stardates...
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> the world is going to end on june 30th this year - we're getting a leapsecond added
<zmoylan-pi> so it won't end on time... it'll be a second out?
<zmoylan-pi> pffft, typical :-)
<diddledan> no the leapsecond will cause the end
<zmoylan-pi> nah it'll just annoy a lot of people in i.t.
<diddledan> apparently the US want to disassociate the canonical time from the rotation of the Earth thereby removing the need for leapseconds
<intrbiz> hopefully the kernel will tollerate the leapsecond this time around
<diddledan> it will however mean that sunrise can't be guaranteed to occur at the correct time
<zmoylan-pi> apart from the smug dos user as it's times are rounded down to 2 seconds... damn you g.r.r.martin :-)
<diddledan> http://metro.co.uk/2015/01/06/twitter-saves-man-having-poo-on-virgin-trains-who-ran-out-of-loo-roll-5011355/
<diddledan> I'm widdling myself at that
<Laney> better tweet someone for a new pair of pants
<ali12341>  /nick widdledan
 * zmoylan-pi always has 1-2 small packs of tissues in back pack... just in case
<SuperEngineer> no comment
<SuperEngineer> ;~)
<SuperEngineer> Currently watching "Bad Robots" E4 [E4
<SuperEngineer> =1 atm} - soooo true to life & a great laugh
<daftykins> it's those times on southwest trains when the huge rounded toilet door opens whilst occupied, oh dear.
<SuperEngineer> yup
<daftykins> just politely averting your eyes and holding your nose...
<SuperEngineer> ..& shouting "Oi! not at the station!"
<SuperEngineer> ooo - another good thing about Bad Robots - gparted sneakily finished a partition resize whilst I was watching it - laughter is fun AND good!
<Azelphur> I'm really getting fed up with enta.net https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=50736ec0ea25462fcb5e9e5c14ce5920
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur, change?
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: funny part is everyone else is worse
<diddledan> the eu cookie law is stupid: "Like most websites Channel 4 uses cookies. In order to deliver a personalised, responsive service and to improve the site, we remember and store information about how you use it. This is done using simple text files called cookies which sit on your computer. These cookies are completely safe and secure and will never contain any sensitive information. They are used only by Channel 4 or the trusted partners we
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
<diddledan> work with."
<Azelphur> at least with enta I can bypass the traffic management for test purposes
<diddledan> the cookie may be completely safe and secure and never contain sensitive information but that doesn't mean the server isn't collecting sensitive information which it then ties to the cookie
<diddledan> the whole eu law seems to think the issue is with cookies themselves storing the bad things
<diddledan> Azelphur, your down is slower than your up? that's wonkybackasswards!
<Azelphur> diddledan: it's because they are overselling
<SuperEngineer> diddledan,  used "only by Channel 4 or the trusted partners" - therein lies the problem, it means who *they* trust, not you
<SuperEngineer> ...& NSA
<SuperEngineer> ..&GCHQ
<SuperEngineer> ... & GOOGLE
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, that's the data stored in the cookie they're referring to in that message, not the data they actually collect
<SuperEngineer> so?
<diddledan> pretty much no website will store your phone number in a cookie, e.g. but that doesn't stop them storing the number at all - the eu cookie law only forces them to tell you they're storing a cookie and thus they have no PII
<SuperEngineer> you do know what's stored in a cookie I assume?
<mapp> gah
<mapp> having no desk sucks
<daftykins> buy one! :P
<mapp> sit on my bed using my laptop and endup with a dead leg from sitting awkwardly
<mapp> no room for it man
<mapp> the apartments here are tiny
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, usually a cookie contains either a Session ID or some form of proving you're you to create a new session id when the old session id is dead
<mapp> i miss having a desk and chair and big tv next to it..sit at the desk wath tv and use my machine
<diddledan> SuperEngineer, it does not contain PII
<SuperEngineer> [& please let's not get into super cookies, everlasting cookies & of course, the new [nah, not even gonna give it publicuty here]
<daftykins> wheel a chair up to your bed then put down a door between the headboard and foot end :D
<mapp> heh
<mapp> atching horrible bosses 2
<mapp> not too bad
<diddledan> the PII can be collected at will without informing anyone as long as it's not stored in a cookie (which it invariably isn't)
<SuperEngineer> daftykins, I'm sorry, what was that you wanted me to use your to/for?
<SuperEngineer> *door to/for
<daftykins> that was for mapp to make a desk
<SuperEngineer> phew!
<daftykins> :D
<mapp> ya it sucks not having one..could use table in lounge but feels weird
<mapp> prefer to stay in room
<mapp> :)
<SuperEngineer> "Red Star OS, the open source operating system from North Korea" - some phrases really do contradict themselves!
<SuperEngineer> whoooops! politics
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist
<diddledan> http://grahamcluley.com/2015/01/sony-hack-attribution-generator/
<zmoylan-pi> the firewall is exceptional and it features a spectacular dmz
<diddledan> I love how consumer routers call "forward everything to this computer: X.Y.Z.A" a "dmz"
<zmoylan-pi> gotta use military terms to sound secure
<mapp> well isnt that basically what dmz is?
<mapp> and red star os lol
<diddledan> no
<diddledan> a dmz is a separate subnet
<diddledan> usually with its' own firewall
<diddledan> and a firewall between the dmz and lan
<daftykins> it's just easier to call a single forwarded IP the 'DMZ' rather than "the thing that's kinda like a DMZ but without a separate network segment"
<mapp> aha
<mapp> didnt know it was a seperate subnet
<mapp> used to the consumer router term as you mentioned above;p
<diddledan> in networking tho a dmz is a specific thing so it makes people who understand that it's not a dmz at all wonder about the manufacturer's networking credibility, and convinces people who don't understand the concept that they're secure
<intrbiz> dmz's are not really the best approach these days
<mapp> what would be better
<intrbiz> better to fine grain separate services and control access
<intrbiz> rather than sticking all external facing servers together with uncontrolled access between each
<diddledan> dmzs are a good idea IMO if you're putting public services and you have a set of hosts that you don't want to be public - the public can get pwnd as much as a hacker likes but it won't expose your private network
<diddledan> intrbiz, I'd do that in addition to dmz
<diddledan> not instead
<mapp> but diddledan  surely dmz means all ports accessible ..why would you do this over forward specific ports
<diddledan> no, dmz has no concept of what ports are accessible
<intrbiz> diddledan: why not segment your public facing hosts too?
<diddledan> dmz is a segmentation technique not an access control technique
<intrbiz> what is harmful is when people think just about a dmz rather than segmenting service areas
<diddledan> intrbiz, yes, it's PART of the overall solution, not the solution itself
<intrbiz> nothing wrong with having multiple 'dmz's
<bigcalm> davmor2: you alive?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I am
<bigcalm> davmor2: guessing you're too busy again for the LUG tonight?
<diddledan> anywho, I'm heading out for a bit.. ttfn
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I'm going
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you going to LUG tonight?
<bigcalm> intrbiz: aye, changed my mind and felt the need to get out of the house
<bigcalm> davmor2: doh, so you are. Don't know why I didn't think you weren't
<bigcalm> davmor2: don't mind me, carry on
<davmor2> bigcalm: okay
 * bigcalm throws lego bricks at davmor2
<bigcalm> Bring your phone, I wanna play!
 * davmor2 builds a hammer and hit bigcalm with it till it breaks
<SuperEngineer> Odd, but the "DMZee" [demilitarised zone] could better implemented via an NML [no man's land]
<SuperEngineer> [just a thought]
<Azelphur> Does anyone know the deal with Ofcom and minimum bandwidth speeds is?
<daftykins> i bet it's way lower than what you've got
<Azelphur> daftykins: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4035074821 on 70mbit fiber
<daftykins> numbers would've been easier :(
<Azelphur> lol
<SuperEngineer> While you all whinge about sppeds - please remember - I'm "forced" to put up with a download speed max of 250MB [yupp, Mb]
<daftykins> err
<SuperEngineer> - I would complain to the person I'm "borrowing the connection from.. but ya know, don't wanna cUSE FRICTION ;)
<SuperEngineer> *cause
<SuperEngineer> :D
<daftykins> what's the best download speed you've seen real world?
<SuperEngineer> me?
<Azelphur> 250mbit is 250x as fast as what I'm getting? XD
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur, that's ridiculous! are you "borrowing" as well
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: nope, I'm paying for 70mbit
<SuperEngineer> yikes!
<SuperEngineer> time to thow custard at your supplier
<Azelphur> indeed
<awilkins> And I thought 22/60 Mbit/s was a custard throwing offence....
<awilkins> I might click the button that upgrades me to 100Mbit/s and see if it actually does anything
<awilkins> 22/100 sounds much worse
<SuperEngineer> especially as an exam result - it's called a fail - why not remind them of that
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: i hope your lights are on
<awilkins> WEll.. so, at least my upload will double
<awilkins> That will be useful in itself
<awilkins> And my "throttled" speed will basically be what my normal speed is now
<awilkins> So huzaah
<SuperEngineer> me go eat - bfn
<daftykins> o/
<diddledan> and back
<mapp> hewwo
<mapp> what film to wathc tonight
<mapp> hms
<mapp> thinking before i go to sleep or american sniper
 * diddledan watching silent witless
<daftykins> mmm first tin of baked beans in a long time, so good :D
<diddledan> beans are awesome
<popey> mmmmmm beanz
<popey> especially with sriracha
<awilkins_> Sriracha rescues many foods
<awilkins_> DO make my own baked beans from time to time though
<popey> dont think I've ever done that
<m0nkey_> Today I saw OpenSCO Server in the wild!
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> wow
<m0nkey_> Yeah
<diddledan> was it maintained?
<diddledan> (do SCO still exist, even?)
<m0nkey_> The guy was using it as his desktop!
<diddledan> looks like they've changed their name: http://www.xinuos.com/
<m0nkey_> Its an old machine. Mid 90s I guess.
<popey> golly
<diddledan> a desktop sco?!
<diddledan> wow that really is obscure
<m0nkey_> Server edition on an old desktop. With the hard drive making that annoying metallic buzzing sound.
<diddledan> eep
<m0nkey_> Food time.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-08
<mapp> hi all
<MooDoo> morning
<mapp> morning MooDoo
<mapp> hows it going pal
<MooDoo> yeah it's going fine, just ordered myself a server for home
<mapp> nice
<mapp> :D
<mapp> i cant order anything no bloody room here
<MooDoo> mapp: having a garage helps and when they are 1u, they stack ;)
<mapp> well no garage here;p
<mapp> cant even have a desk here
<mapp> no room for a desk or a tv
<MooDoo> sounds like my home...
<mapp> :D
<mapp> its a sacrifice
<mapp> weather vs space
<MooDoo> yeah that's why i'm glad I have a garage....server room in the rafters
<MooDoo> lol
<mapp> well
<mapp> enjoy your 2c:P
<mapp> 16c for me
<mapp> heh
<MooDoo> 2c?
<awilkins> or not 2c?
<awilkins> That is the question.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Joy Germ Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<MooDoo> :)
<daubers> Hello!
<popey> Hello!
<popey> Hows tricks?
<daubers> popey: Tricky
<daubers> popey: How be thee?
<popey> much the same as usual
<daubers> Fair do's
<davmor2> popey: Magic but not a lot :)
<daubers> I have a really random, kinda off topic question
<popey> \o/
<popey> we love those
<daubers> Has anyone here had an RFID implant?
<davmor2> no
<popey> hah, no
<daubers> Hmmm, I might be crazy then. Going to get one done soon-ish
<popey> well. my cats do
<davmor2> JamesTait: nice a germ that spread joy,  is it called popey ?
<JamesTait> davmor2, I thought it was me! :-P
<popey> daubers: for what purpose?
<popey> unlocking devices etc?
<daubers> popey: Fun! And that
<daubers> popey: Also, for unlocking the Hackspace door and so forth
<davmor2> JamesTait: no you brighten the day with your greetings for real joy it's all on popey :D  no pressure
<popey> what would you progam the rfid with?
<popey> I mean, a code or something?
<daubers> They each have a unique serial, but there is a secure handshakey crypto way of doing it too
<popey> where you having it done? the vet?
<daubers> popey: Body Mod place in Southampton
<popey> that makes more sense
<daubers> :)
<daubers> Maybe do the magnet thing next year
<daubers> see how I get on with RFID first
<popey> i had a friend who had a bar through his ear
<popey> was told "don't touch it, let it scab up"
<popey> he went home, had a shower, in the shower he tweaked it a tiny bit
<popey> went to bed, woke up with head stuck to pillow with dried blood
<daubers> Not surprising!
<popey> collapsed due to blood loss
<daubers> Ouch
<daubers> This is effectivley just an injection
<popey> where would you put it?
<popey> behind your neck like a cat? â»
<popey> the sole of your foot!?
<popey> would make for opening doors ninja style fun
<daubers> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5zAZq1p0d0 <- For those not scared of needles
<davmor2> popey: I assume wrist if it is opening doors
<daubers> Between yourthumb and fingers
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Update us on how and what you do with it daubers, I'm interested
<daubers> diplo: I'll ask them nicely to video it
<diplo> That is one big device to inject it! Not to worried about seeing it daubers :)  more on what you do after :)
<daubers> diplo: I'm quite scared of the big needle, but it'll be fun!
<daubers> (and painful)
<diplo> Yeah, I expect it'll be more than a little prick
<diplo> :D
<daubers> :)
<daubers> A lot of people on youtube who had it done said it wasn't that painful, but you don't know if their saying that just because they don't want to be seen as a wimp
<diplo> The guy didn't seem to flinch much on that video
<diplo> Just reading up on the one that guy had injected, can link to your phone
<diplo> Good security feature to unlock your phone
<daubers> Yeah, there are NFC phone unlock apps that work with them
<brobostigon> i just noticed something strange, after a while on my nexus 4, things like irssinotifier and pushover messages fail to get through, untill i stick it in airplane mode and back, and then they all suddenly flow back, very strange.
<bashrc> gremlins
<brobostigon> yep.
<Myrtti> well there are cat flaps that read the chip on the cats neck and open it only to them
<popey> yeah, i have one of them, not installed it because it's mains powered
<daubers> popey: So if it's not your cat it tasers whoever is trying to get in?
<popey> heh
<awilkins> You can get rat killing traps powered by electricity
<awilkins> That would be a logical application
<awilkins> I nearly got one but they were hard to come by in the UK
<awilkins> (for my loft squirrels)
<bashrc> secure all the cat entries
<MooDoo> :)
<Laney> grr
<Laney> just got a call saying the nest installer can't come this afternoon
<Laney> what if I'd taken some time off to wait in :(
<Myrtti> I almost bought one for the future inlaws, they don't have a thermostat of any kind, just a timer
<Myrtti> but couldn't be sure if it'd get used so I didn't
<ali12341> what does it do?
<Myrtti> learning thermostat is the sales quip
<awilkins> I have a radio thermostat
<awilkins> Presume it's one of those with some fuzzy logic in it
<awilkins> And wifi
<directhex> okay, gentlehumans. here is a video of a new game controller. it's bluetooth based, designed for use with an android phone/tablet or PC. your mission is to guess the RRP of this game controller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMCR1LEfTjI
<directhex> the price reveal is at around 7:50. don't spoil it!
<zmoylan-pi> if it's been announced at ces, silly money
 * zmoylan-pi wonders when it became ok to fleece gamers...
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: since forever. see also http://shop.gunnars.com/gaming-eyewear/l/200
<shauno> I think half the time they're asking to be fleeced.  a lot of 'gamer' products makes them look like the audiophiles of the IT world
<zmoylan-pi> no, i remember my zx spectrum, a game for irÂ£2.75 or irÂ£3.80 on budget games
<zmoylan-pi> full price was irÂ£15
<zmoylan-pi> i could easily get a game a week, when i got a nintendo ds for commuting a game a month as they cost â¬40+
<zmoylan-pi> bbc, amstrad, commodore games were the same
<zmoylan-pi> only when nintendo consoles kicked off with cartridges in 80s did the gouging begin in earnst.  to my mind anyway
<directhex> prices have been decreasing over the years, accounting for inflation
<directhex> N64 games were often Â£50 or Â£60 new, in the mid 1990s
<zmoylan-pi> yes... and no. most of the early games were trivial to copy so most games were bought to be shared with others
<shauno> I honestly don't remember game prices.  almost everything I had on the amiga was courtesy of xcopy
<ali12341> they were like Â£35
<ali12341> Â£19 for older releases and Â£10 for "budget" games
<shauno> by time I started working most of them were being sold on whitelabels in EB
<zmoylan-pi> wow, my last computer didn't cost that much! (the bt controller)
<directhex> ali12341: games still cost around that.
<ali12341> sure, on PC
<zmoylan-pi> amiga games were cheaper than nintendo games in 80s.  and you could still copy them so actual cost wasn't so high as % of your collection would be copies
<zmoylan-pi> sony playstation has or at least had (when i had a ps1) their platinum collection where you could get 2-3 year old games cheap plus you had second hand games.
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: What on earth are those glasses supposed to do?
<zmoylan-pi> but now the consoles seem to be eliminating the second hand market
<ali12341> yeah i think those were like Â£20
<zmoylan-pi> i really liked sim city on playstation, harder on controller than keyboard and mouse but still a good game
<zmoylan-pi> i got it second hand. cheap
<TwistedLucidity> Games: https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games/v2
<TwistedLucidity> Games: https://archive.org/details/classicpcgames
<directhex> TwistedLucidity: um... eliminate glare, i think
<directhex> ali12341: on console
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the correct way to eliminate glare to play in basement or some room blocked off forever from natural light? :-)
<TwistedLucidity> directhex: Eliminate. Glare. So...polarised. For that moment. Morons.
<TwistedLucidity> "that money"
<directhex> ali12341: some games cost more. but plenty of "proper" games ship brand-new on current-gen consoles for very little more than amiga games did. sometimes less.
<ali12341> i think they are supposed to reduce blue/white light
<directhex> not accounting for inflation
<directhex> e.g. smash bros wiiu is Â£35 at game, that came out for xmas. halo master chief colection (a 4-game HD remaster) is Â£35 at game. less at tesco
<ali12341> yeah, the mid 2000s was the peak pricing, when games were selling for Â£60
<ali12341> now they sell half the game for Â£30 then hit you for another Â£60 in DLC
<directhex> in some cases, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> so real pricing has gone up. or rather the gouging
<directhex> basically call of duty. which people will pay anything for
<directhex> some gouging is gougier than other gouging
<ali12341> is elite dangerous good?
<directhex> a lot of it is... a workaround for firing 200 people every time a game is nearing completion
<zmoylan-pi> so hollywood accounting gamer style
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: nah, hollywood accounting is different. game publishers don't want losses on paper
<zmoylan-pi> don't want to much profit either... all those poor companies going bust
<Myrtti> well that was quick
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: the budget for a modern game is, dev+marketing, 8 figures.
<Myrtti> got the Ubuntu stickers already today
<Myrtti> only ordered them yesterday
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: let's say a 50:50 split. up to 300 staff working on a game at once, but with elastic team size from around 30 minimum to that 300 maximum.
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: once a game is "done" (i.e. sent to publisher for QA, pressing, distribution, sale), what do you do with the 270 people not needed at the start of a project?
<Myrtti> perfic
<zmoylan-pi> tag them and release them into the wild to be free?
<Myrtti> there, covered the Dell logo on the lid and Windows logo on the Super key
<directhex> and with $80M on the line, you *cannot* afford to make a loss. the game needs to be a success, one way or another. hence gouging with microtransactions. "smartphone generation gamers demand the ability to boost their progress by buying cars & guns!"
<directhex> and "okay, now the team is moving into production on DLC, rather than being fired, to help prop up the release and keep working" is where DLC comes from
<directhex> split into smaller teams, work on multiple DLC packs in tandem
<ali12341> i would put them to work porting games to linux
<popey> blinkbox now part of talktalk...
<popey> https://support.blinkbox.com/hc/en-gb/articles/204428707
<Myrtti> how unsurprising
<Myrtti> Tesco is closing stores and selling stuff that isn't their core business
<popey> yeah
<popey> yet they are planning to open a new one near me
<popey> small one, annoying people in the process
<Myrtti> old pub refurbed?
<Myrtti> that seems to be the MO everywhere
<Myrtti> and not only for Tesco
<zmoylan-pi> the lidl near me is the one that does all the business
<Myrtti> I don't mind shopping at Tesco nowadays after ours was refurbed
<Myrtti> it doesn't feel like a miserable old cave anymore
<zmoylan-pi> as long as they have staff who understand stock rotation...
<Myrtti> and having done the Christmas food shop in Finland in a big supermarket, I nearly cried when I got home to UK
<zmoylan-pi> they did stop our nearby tescos been 24 hours as the only ones who used it at night were drug dealers
<directhex> ali12341: not the same people. environment artists aren't good at porting.
<directhex> you need your programmers on hand until past release, for patching
<Myrtti> I hadn't been so surprised for a good while, 21st of Dec and store full of people trying to do their Christmas shop before it all descends into madness, and not a shop assistant in sight
<ali12341> well they'd have to learn
<Myrtti> took me a good 10 minutes to find a person to ask if they've got molasses somewhere to get a response "if it's not on the shelf, then no"
<Myrtti> "thanks"
<popey> Myrtti: one was indeed an old pub
<popey> another is to demolish a car sales place
<zmoylan-pi> a grade ii listed car dealer? :-P
<popey> conveniently the local paper scanned their front page so I didn't need to buy it to read the article
<popey> https://twitter.com/FarnboroughNews/status/553127873629130752
<zmoylan-pi> so you won't be downloading their app then? :-)
<popey> nah
<popey> Sudden flashback to using Berol handwriting pens at school
<zmoylan-pi> i used cartridge pens as my handwriting was unreadable otherwise
<TwistedLucidity> popey: There were some...concerns over how a certain large supermarket chain arrived here. Not sure how libellous the accusations are...
<brobostigon> would there be a way, to stream a video, from my desktop to my smart-tv, by some means, like with chromecast.?
<diplo> dlna server on the desktop brobostigon
<diplo> That's what my friend does
<Myrtti> yup
<Myrtti> dlna of somekind, be it Plex or minidlna or mediatomb
<diplo> MiniDLNA i think he uses
<diplo> :P
<brobostigon> ok, so i could point said dlna server at lets say a dvd, and do that?
<zmoylan-pi>  dlna... attack!! :-)
<brobostigon> my dvd player has packed up the ghost, hence the question.
<SuperMatt> anyone got a good command for restoring all the permissions for someone who has run chown -R / ?
<diddledan> SuperMatt, that's a pain to fix
<brobostigon> could i push the vide from vlc to the tv, for example?
<brobostigon> dvd*
<diplo> brobostigon, I honestly don't know, sounds doable
<diplo> But may be a little trouble
<brobostigon> i agree, i just cant find a solution to it.
<diplo> Rip the dvd to mkv ? :)
<diplo> not sure how the menu would be supported
<zmoylan-pi> i spent 18 months ripping my dvd collection.  still adding to it
<brobostigon> thats an idea diplo
<diplo> Same here zmoylan-pi, 600+ films now
<diplo> Handbrake is the simple solution I found
<diplo> http://handbrake.fr
<zmoylan-pi> i used handbrake a lot as i was using a mac at the time.  also on linux at the moment but i have dabbled in others when they've put up resistance
<MooDoo> I use dvdshrink in wine, works a treat rip to vob or iso
<MooDoo> vlc does play iso dvds
<zmoylan-pi> vlc seems to play everything...
<zmoylan-pi> when the aliens arrive to invade, their announcement will be played via vlc :-)
<popey> mpv > vlc
<popey> IMO
<ali12341> vlc can't play h264 correctly
<ali12341> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/1391837
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1391837 in vlc (Ubuntu) "Blocky video with some files" [Undecided,Invalid]
<DJones> brobostigon: I've just set up minidnla on my server to stream to a smart tv, took about 5 minutes to set up
<ali12341> it also produces different output depending on how fast your computer is, apparently
<brobostigon> DJones: yep, i have minidlna setup on my rpi, to share videos of iplayer, works well.
<diddledan> ali12341, weird that the bug has been marked "invalid" when you've provided evidence
<ali12341> i wish it was weird, sadly it's what i have come to expect
<diddledan> it would be understandable if other players also did the same thing, but you've shown that two players behave differently
<ali12341> not just differently, *correctly*
<awilkins> Hrrmph
<awilkins> My broadband upgrade came through
<awilkins> Operational config : 100Mbit/s
<awilkins> Actual speed : still less than 20Mbit/s
<zmoylan-pi> tsk, you're slumming it at 20Mbit/s :-)
<awilkins> My upstream doubled
<awilkins> 6Mbit/s now
<diddledan> wow, awilkins that's bad
<awilkins> Have posted on their forums
<diddledan> awilkins, issat virgin?
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> Checked my power levels
<awilkins> They're off, apparently
<awilkins> Removed the attenuator and they're still off
<awilkins> Think I need a 10dB attenuator rather than 20
<diddledan> awilkins, that'll not be "half the attenuation"
<awilkins> diddledan, I know :-)
<diddledan> that'll be more like 1/8th the attenuation?
<awilkins> But you can still use addition on the decibel scale because it's log
<awilkins> Removing it put me from about -9 to +11
<diddledan> every 3db step is a doubling iirc
<diddledan> so it's a curve rather than linear
<awilkins> No idea what the right power levels are supposed to be
<diddledan> me either :-p
<zmoylan-pi> but you're at +11 that should be best!!
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it's 1 more powers than 10
<zmoylan-pi> exactly :-)
 * diddledan reading about political fallout from paris sadness
<diddledan> nigel ferage has gone on record stating that britain and france (and presumably others) have a "fifth column" of people who hate us
<diddledan> there's talk of a bomb having gone off in lyon, today, now
<zmoylan-pi> i thought farage was in the fifth column who hated britain
<diddledan> perhaps that's why he said it - hide in plain sight?
<zmoylan-pi> don't get much plainer
<diddledan> my response to the news is: je suis charlie
<intrbiz> groups of people have hated other groups of people for a long time
<intrbiz> and will continue to do so
<mapito> anyone used a dual sim phone? wonder if its possible to have 2 sims in..1 set as  active so would be using that BUT if a call comes into other sims number you can still answer it?
<diddledan> apparently gay can cause accidents: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30735673
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> anyone about?
<diddledan> nope
<intrbiz> sebsebseb: hi
<intrbiz> diddledan: wow, that is not good
<sebsebseb> intrbiz: oh it's you
<intrbiz> sebsebseb: yeh
<sebsebseb> anyway Jimmy Wales on Question Time hmm
<sebsebseb> Wikipedia founder
<intrbiz> sebsebseb: yeh
<diddledan> no spoilers on qt please. I've just started watching
<intrbiz> diddledan: ok
<sebsebseb> diddledan: ar you watching live or behind?
<diddledan> behind - iplayer timeshiting
<sebsebseb> oh
<diddledan> +f
<mapito> whats fsf sebsebseb
<mapito> i ordered my new phone motorola g dual sim :D sick of taking phone out of case to switch rom EE to gibtel
<sebsebseb> hmm interesting:  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/01/intel-compute-stick-specs-ubuntu-version
<sebsebseb> mapito: realy you don't know what FSF is?
<zmoylan-pi> half the ram for the linux version though is annoying
<sebsebseb> how long have you used  Desktop LInuxfor?
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yeah lesser specs, but may be able to put it on the  better specs
<zmoylan-pi> while paying for windows licence...
<sebsebseb> mapito: you don't know what FSF is really?
<sebsebseb> mapito: you must be quite new to Linu etc if so
<mapito> free software foundation?
<mapito> i was only asking
<sebsebseb> yep bingo free software foundation
<mapito> ;]
<intrbiz> mapito: the Ubuntu phone davmor2 has is dual sim
<sebsebseb> intrbiz: should have phooted yu maybe at the event heh heh, oh well
<sebsebseb> ah yes I coudn't anway since.  full phone  etc uh
<intrbiz> sebsebseb: should have what me?
<mapito> nice didnt knw any ubuntu phones were out
<mapito> also
<mapito> <mapito> anyone used a dual sim phone? wonder if its possible to have 2 sims in..1 set as  active so would be using that BUT if a call comes into other sims number you can still answer it?
<mapito> anyone got any ideas
<sebsebseb> mapito: no Ubuntu phone isn't out yet
<sebsebseb> ,but the first one should go on sale next month
<mapito> ah
<sebsebseb> for now the most interesitng phone out
<sebsebseb> is proaby Jolla really :)
<intrbiz> mapito: as I understand it, both sims are active and you can make / recieve calls on both
<mapito> sweet
<mapito> so you dont have to switch between
<sebsebseb> my one  came on Monday, and Jolla really is awesome it seems :)
<intrbiz> mapito: that will depend on the software I expect
<mapito> wonder how it works so i can make it use 3G on gibtel sim thats basically why i wanted dual sim
<mapito> 3g on gibtel calls'texts on ee
<intrbiz> mapito: IIRC the one davmor2 has, was 3G on one sim, 2G on the other
<mapito> I'd need to make sure it doesnt use 3g on ee tho as id be charged roaming
<intrbiz> mapito: sure, that is gonna depend on what device / software you are running I suspect
<intrbiz> well, QT seems to have descended into a slagging match again
<sebsebseb> yeah ee sucks really iti seems, or it's just m sucky oragne contract that mainly ame over
<sebsebseb> ,but nah  giffgaff seems it's going t be better for me
<sebsebseb> soon I wil switch :)
<sebsebseb> a month left on the sucky contract though I think or porbaby
<mapito> well i use my ee for calls to eu and texts
<mapito> as im abroad
<mapito> butdata costs too much
<zmoylan-pi> geek aquarium to look at and relax... :-) http://www.flightradar24.com/RYR73NC/53a74cf
<sebsebseb> then I can get the right card for my Jolla pone to.  microsim or whatever it was yeah, and hten I can start using that as an actsaul phone to
<sebsebseb> instead of just a toy
<sebsebseb> mapito: yeah I have used Orange/EE abroad to.  probably be doing that again soon for my last time
<sebsebseb> where are you at the moment then?
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: yeh I spent too much time there
<mapito> its decent tho having free calls when abroad..so if youre in Eu its free calls to EU BUT only when travelling..if i called spain from my ee contract while in uk it isnt free
<mapito> Gibraltar
<mapito> sebsebseb, surely on this Motorola G it will be possible to turn data off for a specific sim or chose whic to use? has to be id think
<sebsebseb> it's a Â£2 a day deal thing on my thing
<sebsebseb> or
<sebsebseb> paying  for what is used
<sebsebseb> when abroad
<mapito> yea id rather use my gibtel unlimited 3g
 * sebsebseb I wonder how giffgaff works when abroad hmm
<mapito> going from ios to android..used iphone for years
<sebsebseb> mapito: Gibratler is nice went thee years ago
<sebsebseb> mapito: oh and watch out for the monkeys at the top of  the rock
<mapito> hahaha yea been up there..sometimes see them just in the street
<mapito> at the top of main street
<sebsebseb> yeah, but  they wil do stuff that you don't want done to you
<sebsebseb> if your not careful
<sebsebseb> or when I was there anyway
<sebsebseb> did you move there, or just visiting?
<mapito> working here till end of March minimum
<sebsebseb> oh ok nice
<mapito> http://twitter.com/mapppps can see photo of moinkey at top;p
<sebsebseb> mapito: so what money do they have there now.  Euro, and  some sort of Gibralten pound ?
<mapito> GIP
<mapito> Gibrsltar pound
<mapito> but
<mapito> you can use UK pounds its 1:1 and the machines and shops take/give both
<mapito> ut cant spend GIP in UK
<sebsebseb> when I was there  it was  before euro,  so  Spannish money and their own thing
<sebsebseb> altough yeah I think UK money  coul get accepted to
<sebsebseb> what about teh euro?
<sebsebseb> or they don't do that?
<mapito> yea can pay in euros most places like restaurants/bars
<mapito> or even Morrisons
<sebsebseb> hmm so it's three currencies
<mapito> its handy though here we can use UK debit and credit cards with 0 fees/charge :D
<sebsebseb> also oh Morisions is in Gibralter,  well  yeah it's like Britian in quite a fewways really from waht I remember, but with differneces, and nicer place
<intrbiz> GIP is essentially like scotish bank notes, issued locally but backed by the bank of england
<mapito> yep
<mapito> but
<sebsebseb> oh
<mapito> if you havce GIP ou cant use it in the UK
<mapito> places wont take it
<intrbiz> sure
<sebsebseb> indeed Gibrlten money won't be accepted in UK
<mapito> but its a 1:1 ratio..the notes ive got on me atm are UK notes..but casino atm usually gives GIP
<intrbiz> scotish bank notes aren't strictly legal tending in england + wales
<zmoylan-pi> can't you exchange them in bank in uk?
<mapito> dont think so
<intrbiz> you should be able to
<sebsebseb> three currencies for Gibralter, wel you said euro as well it seems
<sebsebseb> ,but that's intersting
<sebsebseb> such a small place
<intrbiz> Gib have to back in the BoE anything they print
<sebsebseb> and three currencies
<mapito> well
<sebsebseb> what's BoE ?
<intrbiz> bank of england
<mapito> i mean GIP IS GBP basically i think it always says Â£ gbp most places
<intrbiz> so if RBS want to print a Â£10 note, they have to deposit Â£10 with the BoE
<sebsebseb> mapito: the Spannish won't like you if you try and get in there :d
<mapito> and euros will be accepted by big stores..and restaurants..gauchos..gatsbys ...morrisons and a few bars
<mapito> been to spain (La Linea) a few times
<sebsebseb> how long has Morrisons been in Gibralter?
<mapito> 30 years
<mapito> says it at the store entrance
<sebsebseb> reallly o
<sebsebseb> oh
<sebsebseb> oh right wel I dind't go there
<mapito> and luckily for me..I live RIGHT by morrisons i can get there in say 2minutes lol
<sebsebseb> I don't think when I went
<sebsebseb> ,but
<sebsebseb> is there only like one super market
<mapito> right by Morrisons and right by McDonalds...5minutes from work
<sebsebseb> for whole of Gibrlater
<sebsebseb> or smething
<sebsebseb> it's small
<mapito> if you know where Waterport place  is?
<sebsebseb> no  not at all, long time ago when I went there to
<intrbiz> mapito: what are you working on out there?
<mapito> I work there..wakk there in 5..handy as being near morrisons..so i dont have far to walk with my shopping
<mapito> there's an Eroski right by the border now sebsebseb  near the airport
<mapito> but i man or me..without a car way better to be near morrisons
<mapito> oh
<sebsebseb> Eroski yeah I been to those in  uhmm  Menorca
<mapito> and i can walk to ocean village in say 15
<mapito> you know ocean village? casino/bars etc there..
<mapito> work for bet365.com intrbiz
<sebsebseb> no don't kmnow  the casions etc there
<sebsebseb> would be nice to go back to Gibralte at same stage
<intrbiz> mapito: ah ok
<sebsebseb> I went as a teenager
<mapito> did you see my picture?:D
<mapito> use it as twitter
<intrbiz> mapito: I was approached by a recuriter for a postgresql job for a 'gaming' company out there a few years back
<sebsebseb> mapito: one ISP for whole of Gibrlater? :D
<intrbiz> mapito: took me a while to realise that meant gambling
<mapito> nice intrbiz  wonder who and what pay
<mapito> yea basically ..gibtelecom
<intrbiz> mapito: I never new the actual company, it was a 'html5 gaming' company
<mapito> its ok being here
<mapito> we got a good deal they wanted us to come
<mapito> so we all got a decent offer
<intrbiz> mapito: the sunshine was kind of appealing
<mapito> wanted 40people to come from UK/externals by end of september
<intrbiz> anyone there watch this week?
<mapito> whats that
<diddledan> "next week on this week, tonight."
<mapito> O_o
<intrbiz> mapito: political comentary show on bbc one after bbc qt
<mapito> ah
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-09
<diddledan> oh, even better, "that was the week that was, next week on this week"
<intrbiz> diddledan: yes :)
<mapito> ope this dual sim phone lives up to what i need
<shauno> of course it won't, it's an android ;)
<mapito> got an iphne5s and 6 ..but dont wanna carry 2 phones and dont wanna swich sims ..the cases endup breaking at corners from taking phone out so many times
<directhex> i'm not sure what dual-sim is *for*
<diddledan> dual sim is just a hipster thing
<diddledan> it doesn't actually do anything useful
<diddledan> but the cool kids can say "look, it even takes two sims!"
<ali12341> in china the rates for internetwork calls are really high so people just have two sims
<diddledan> if everyone has two sims, why not just everyone have one and make one of the networks go under?
<ali12341> actually in china there probably only is one network
<ali12341> it's actually places like s.korea
<mapito> i need to use 2 sims atm tho
<mapito> if roaming wasnt stupidly expensive id just use ee..but im not paying 2 quid a day on top of my contract
<diddledan> why do you need to use ee at all?
<mapito> calls and texts are free to eu while travelling in eu
<shauno> just use a little nokie for your voice calls.  that way you can keep your data plan on a proper phone ;)
<mapito> whereas if i use gib telecom will cost me loads to ring UK
<ali12341> if you have a dual sim android phone you can lock calls to one sim and data to the other
<mapito> yea
<mapito> thats what i want to do
<ali12341> this is handy because you can use a ee sim for voice calls and get good signal everywhere
<mapito> if i lock calls and texts to ee and data to gibtele - if someone rung the gib number would i not be able to answer it?
<ali12341> and use a three sim for cheap data, but three has a terrible signal
<mapito> ordered the motorola moto g 2nd gen seemed good enough for my needs
<ali12341> you'll always receive calls if the sim supports it
<mapito> so contacable on both numbers in a dual sim phone? dont need to set one as active or anything
<mapito> nice
<ali12341> i don't think so
<ali12341> you do need to microsims for that phone though
<ali12341> *two
<ali12341> for this reason i couldn't actually test how it works
<ali12341> but it appears to use both sims at once
<ali12341> it puts two network signal meters in the tray area for example
<ali12341> with "1" and "2" by them
<zmoylan-pi> when phone signal is weak the phone uses more power to establish a connection, how does that affect battery life in a dual sim phone?
<mapito> hi all
<shauno> go to bed!
<mapito> watching the gambler
<mapito> with wahlberg
<mapito> what you dong up!!
<shauno> uhh .. it's the weekend
<daftykins> curry night Friday night \o/
<shauno> it's not friday night?!
<mjayk_> good morning all
<mapito> morning mjayk_
<mapito> curry ugh;p
<mapito> what u upto daftykins
<daftykins> just watched the episode before last of season 2 of Star trek TOS
<mapito> ive never watched any star trek or stargate maybe iu should
<mapito> *i
<zmoylan-pi> have you watched the tos reboot?
<daftykins> no sir
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Continues
<zmoylan-pi> it's a fan created continuation.  it's not bad
<shauno> TOS was terrible. so it's either bad, or unfaithful :)
<daftykins> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> tos is a product of its time. it looks terrible now but for its time it was great sci fi
<zmoylan-pi> ditto tng
<zmoylan-pi> ds9 has stood up a little better
<daftykins> this is actually my first viewing of TOS and i found seasons 1 and 2 great
<daftykins> TNG needed to spend less time out of the court room
<daftykins> my dear tux those episodes bored me
<zmoylan-pi> tng was a product of the 80s let's all sit down and talk
<mapito> judge judy is the best show;p
<shauno> I still dig tng
<zmoylan-pi> voyager is a little bland but has wonderful borg episodes
<zmoylan-pi> enterprise i kinda liked on rewatching.
<daftykins> i debated watching Voyager, not sure i could handle Janeway's voice for that long
<zmoylan-pi> and i also liked star trek animated
<shauno> voyager got much better towards the end.  and then just kinda stopped
<zmoylan-pi> start watching voyager about half way through season 3
<zmoylan-pi> ds9 is nice and dark as they tried to copy babylon 5
<shauno> (ds9 seemed to do that too.  it just kinda stopped.  they seem to have no idea how to wrap up a series.  tos & tng survived a little better because they finished them in films)
<zmoylan-pi> yeah the ds9 crew felt gutted that there was no film afterwards
<zmoylan-pi> so many lose ends. andrew robinson wrote a book about what garak got up to that i've heard good things about
<shauno> enterprise was a little better - simply because by the end of it, I was more than ready for it to finish
<daftykins> i didn't feel DS9 had anything to wrap up? it was just a bit cheesily finished
<shauno> it didn't so much finish, it just got put out of its misery
<zmoylan-pi> well there was garak heading home to rebuild cardassia, o'brien heading home to earth to teach, worf as ambassador to klingon empire and then the rest of the crew still on the station rebuilding after the war
<zmoylan-pi> lots of stories to be told there
<zmoylan-pi> but they wanted to move on to push voyager which was struggling a little and cheaper to make
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: that's true
<mapito> well
<mapito> the gambler was ok
<knightwise> morning everyone
<mapito> morning knightwise
<knightwise> morning mapito
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you knightwise
<knightwise> doing ok , working from home today
<knightwise> swithced around my main workstation from my mac to ubuntu yesterday
<knightwise> always nice to jump right back into the flow of things regardless that you just switched operating systems :)
<knightwise> Thats the great thing about having cross plaform workflows
<MooDoo> yeah nice
<knightwise> enjoying getting to know Gnome3 ,
<knightwise> very "modest" operating system. Doenst seem to get in the way
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: how life up norff
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Static Electricity Day! :-D
<MooDoo> davmor2: windy, and that's not due to me having beans
<davmor2> JamesTait: hair raising balloons
<JamesTait> davmor2, \o/
<popey> BEANZ
<davmor2> popey: MEANZ HEINZ
<Myrtti> TOTORO
<Myrtti> https://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/15616999513/
<davmor2> popey: that or you are watching blazing saddles to test full video playback :)
<knightwise> Gah !
<knightwise> working on a simple redirect script thats bugging me
<knightwise> need to paste the output of one command into a variable and then use that variable in the second command
<knightwise> anyone want to point out my stupid noob mistake and laugh ? http://pastebin.com/uB90W0vq
<ali12341> variable names are case sensitive
<knightwise> ok , that has been fixed , but i think i've made an error with piping in the data into the message variable
<ali12341> MESSAGE=`cat ip.txt`
<knightwise> aah :) good :) I was close then !
<knightwise> Nope  , doesnt work , now it just says 'cat ip.txt' in the subject
<knightwise> i think i forgot a space
<ali12341> then you didn't use backquotes
<knightwise> backquotes are ' right ?
<knightwise> as opposed to "
<ali12341> no
<knightwise> found them
<knightwise> `
<knightwise> nope, sendemail doesnt recognise the input then
<knightwise> i think i have it
<knightwise> BOOM :) it works
<davmor2> knightwise: \o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: man the static on this balloon is keeping it on the wall for ages your hair is good for static :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, Hair? I think you've got me mixed up with someone else. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: you got more than me :P
 * JamesTait bites his tongue.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I have a natural and permanent hair cut :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and davmor2
<davmor2> JamesTait: MooDoo  has a Lionel Blair cut like mine
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> Morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hiya davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you ever find a place to store your SSD?  Sue is trying to persuade me that we have enough corners to order the DeathStar
<bigcalm> davmor2: still on the dinning room table. I might see if it'll fit in my office
<davmor2> haha
<popey> suspend it from the celing above your bed!
<davmor2> popey: hahaha
 * bigcalm goes to weigh it
<davmor2> bigcalm: is that the one that is 4 or 8 kilos
 * knightwise just wrote a pretty "lowjack" script : http://pastebin.com/SgjT0ieb
<popey> PaulW2U: congratulations!
<bigcalm> davmor2: weighed myself and then me with it, came out at about 4.5 kg
<davmor2> bigcalm: that is quite heavy
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/553515102893522944
<Laney> nice elephants
<bigcalm> I love my elePHPants
<bigcalm> davmor2: ^
<davmor2> bigcalm: that does not fit
<davmor2> bigcalm: your xwing looks fairly small is that the standard one?
<knightwise> DROOL
<bigcalm> davmor2: it does. The door can open and close without problem
<bigcalm> davmor2: yes
<bigcalm> Once I've built the Tie Fighter, I'll take a group photo of: Super Star Destroyer, Tie Fighter, AT-AT, Millennium Falcon, X-Wing, Snow Speeder, R2D2
<bigcalm> I must stop buying these things
<popey> I can see a loft hatch
<popey> put them all up there
<popey> â»
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> popey: Full of insulation. Don't think there's much space to make it into a model home
<popey> we had extra insulation put in ours, then boards on top
<bigcalm> Putting boards down would compress the insulation and thus reduce its efficiency
<popey> no it wouldn't â»
<popey> we have boards above the insulation
<popey> not pushing it down
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<popey> our loft is a dumping ground
<popey> my jamma arcade boards are all up there
<popey> and spectrums, amstrads, bbcs etc
<davmor2> popey: bigcalm: knock at the door my build a scale movie model of the millennium falcon just turned up, I've just seen A: the level of detail and B: the mammoth size of it
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Poor Sue
<davmor2> bigcalm: she ordered it
<popey> I think I may add some lego to my wishlist - birthday soon â»
<MooDoo> davmor2: not the magazine?
<knightwise> :)
<MooDoo> all Â£900 of it
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeap
<MooDoo> davmor2: and expensive ship then
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm, MooDoo: http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/2015-01-09-120002.jpg
<MooDoo> bloody hell
<knightwise> at least now I don't feel so wierd about owning the deckplan blueprints of the enterprise D
<davmor2> MooDoo: movie scale replica now you suddenly start understanding the price point.  Subscribers get a wall mounting bracket because I'm assuming it's too heavy to go on top of shelves :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: don't eat it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I needed the other hand to click the mouse
<knightwise> window hide 4
<knightwise> sorry
<davmor2> knightwise: no your not ;)
<knightwise> blowup davmor2
<knightwise> i meant /blowup davmor2
<knightwise> ;)
 * DJones wonders if knightwise means with explosives or a inflate with helium to make hanging him from the ceiling simpler
<knightwise> DJones: the latter
 * knightwise knows people who watch Pr0n with Links
<bigcalm> Links the web browser?
<popey> "A friend"
<zmoylan-pi> if the porn has the right keywords people will follow a 20 minute set of install instructions to watch it :-/
<ali12341> are all the daily ISOs broken or what?
<popey> ali12341: possibly
<ali12341> lol, why is the ubuntu homepage in arabic on a fresh install?
<awilkins> Is that the first localization in the list?
<ali12341> probably
<zmoylan-pi> keyboard layout you chose?
<ali12341> no, i chose UK like always
<awilkins> What do you expect for software named after one of these?   (mildly NFSW) : http://cdn1.arkive.org/media/73/73BF888D-9637-4CA3-A040-5830367C8696/Presentation.Large/Hilgerts-vervet-C-p-hilgerti-running.jpg
<ali12341> "you pay peanuts..."
<ali12341> bug 1409015
<lubotu3> bug 1409015 in firefox (Ubuntu) "about:startpage is in wrong language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409015
<bigcalm> Just installed the gimp and it's throwing seg faults when I try to launch it. Anybody know how I can debug/resolve this?
<awilkins> How'd you install it?
<bigcalm> Software Centre
<bigcalm> Quick google and I've created ~/.gimp-2.8 and now it runs
<bigcalm> Weird
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9699084/
<awilkins> Config isn't the same as your username
<awilkins> Username seems to be snafu2
<awilkins> Configured folder seems to be iain
<bigcalm> My machine is snafu2
<bigcalm> My user is iain
<awilkins> Ah, sorry
<diddledan> yey for configurable prompts?
<diddledan> confuse the heck out of others prompts!
<diddledan> :-p
<bigcalm> Eh?
<diddledan> bigcalm, awilkins was obviously misreading the prompt because his is different to yours
<awilkins> mine is the default user@machine
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> export PS1='\[\033[01;32m\]\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w\[\033[31m\]$(__git_ps1 "(%s)") \[\033[01;34m\]$\[\033[00m\] '
<bigcalm> Hi moreati
<moreati> afernoon
<davmor2> moreati: \o
<moreati> ão
<ali12341> á(Â° ÐÂ°)ï¼
<PaulW2U> popey: Thanks
<davmor2> ali12341: your a little teapot short and stout
<diddledan> I found this fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaxG2cTNWkQ
<diddledan> davmor2, pull his handle and hear him shout.
<shauno> woot!  my ipad's been found
<shauno> someone took it a shop in dublin to get them to unlock it, and the shop called me
<zmoylan-pi> score \o/
<shauno> totally.  happy dance!
<zmoylan-pi> i did once find an ipod touch a few years back and posted an online advert looking for it's original owner.  the amount of chancers saying it was theres...
<shauno> yeah.  I thought about that when I looked on dublin airport's lost & found thing.  they have a list of what they've got online
<zmoylan-pi> unfortunately you have to check about a 100 lost and found places, the guards, the airport, the taxi rank, the various shops in the airport...
<shauno> yeah.  that's what I found.  airport police say they don't handle it because it was on the plane itself, and give you ryanair's number
<shauno> ryanair just give you the number for airport police
<zmoylan-pi> ryanair would sell it for petrol money... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> but the owner of the ipod touch had left no name, no email, no identification whatsoever on the device.  yours obviously didn't have such a problem
<shauno> yeah.  as soon as they connected to wifi it locked itself and sticks a message on the screen with my phone number
<shauno> (I don't usually have a passcode on it because it spends most it's life stuffed down the side of the couch)
<zmoylan-pi> and were obviously too confused to read phone number...
<shauno> so I need to figure out when I can make a trip to dublin  heh
<zmoylan-pi> i can pick it up and uh... post it to you... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> >_>   not shifty at all
<zmoylan-pi> <_<
<shauno> lol
<popey> shauno: nice of them!
<zmoylan-pi> if they didn't they could be accused of handling stolen goods...
<shauno> very much so
<diddledan> shauno, and people say that "track my device, i.e. me, every move" is a bad thing :-p
<shauno> figure the guy probably deserves a few bob for his troubles
<popey> remote wipe ftw
<zmoylan-pi> i'd be unhappy if i lost my â¬49 nokia dumbphone :-)
<popey> shauno: phone the store and ask the manager who it was that did it and ask what his/her fave tipple is?
<popey> wonder what they said to the person who took it in
<shauno> I didn't do wipe, just remote lock.  because I actually thought ryanair would find it first  lol
<shauno> but it seems to have been enough .. my phone number popping up on the lock screen when they connected it to wifi was non-too-subtle
<popey> i didnt know you could do that
 * popey tests with his ipad
<popey> ewww. dat gradient on icloud
<shauno> the 'lost mode' bit
<popey> that works nicely
<shauno> it should survive being wiped on ios7 & 8 now, which also rocks
<popey> we should steal that
<popey> my ipad is on ios5
<popey> 1st gen, so lots of apps and games don't work anymore
<popey> crossy road wants 7
<shauno> ah, yeah
<shauno> I have an old ipod that has that problem :/
<ali12341> can you build usermode linux for nacl?
<diddledan> lol, ali12341 , that sounds like fun
<diddledan> ali12341, alternatively usermode linux for emscripten
<shauno> I think most I've seen just emulate x86 in js
<shauno> (eg http://bellard.org/jslinux/ )
<diddledan> shauno, I still don't know if that jslinux is actually what it says it is
<shauno> how do?
<diddledan> i.e. specifically because they haven't made any source code available yet claim it's open source
<diddledan> from the FAQ: "The readable source code of the JS PC emulator itself is not yet available. At this point, any mirroring or redistribution of the code needs my explicit permission."
<shauno> personally tempted to take it at face value, given the author
<diddledan> I don't believe it was attributed last I saw it, tho
<shauno> it says at the bottom (C) 2011 fabrice bellard
<diddledan> as I say, I don't believe it was attributed last I saw it, tho
<shauno> lol, fair enough
<shauno> I'm just saying that since the guy has ffmpeg & qemu under his belt, I'm more tempted to accept his claims
<diddledan> aye, last I saw it there was just the page showing the emulator doing it's thang and not much else
<diddledan> it might be that the version I saw was a rip from bellard.org which didn't attribute it's source
<diddledan> e.g. jslinux.org
<shauno> there was another one floating around quite recently which I believe was bochs in emscripten
<diddledan> following a few links from jslinux.org leads to buzzword bingo: http://www.setiri.com/
<shauno> another one I noticed was an assembler written in js.  notable mostly for the unfortunate name 'jism'
 * diddledan sniggers
<diddledan> I'm not sure I should try googling for that
<shauno> heh, yeah.  there's been a few of those.  like the 'minimal debian' for the pi - 'lessbian'
<diddledan> \o/
<shauno> quite tempted to believe they weren't accidental though.  oh well
<diddledan> yeah, you'd think even if they weren't intentional that the authors would have known the implications before making it public
<diddledan> interesting. a new image format by that bellard bloke (jslinux author) - http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bugfixes/#zoo-bird-head&jpg=s&bpg=s
<mapito> 30mins of american sniper left
<mapito> then il get some yen and g out
<mapito> :D
<zmoylan-pi> i want fif to catch on
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_compression
 * m0nkey_ is finally back from Burlington
<diddledan> wb
 * zmoylan-pi reports m0nkey_ escape to the proper authorities
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGpQk2cW494
<m0nkey_> you can hate me now
<diddledan> that cat is enjoying himself so much
<m0nkey_> Tempted to reinstate my current desktop (mini-itx thing) back to pfSense.
<m0nkey_> ... since I'll be starting to build a new PC for myself soon.
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-10
<mapito> american sniper was dcent
<mapito> tomorrow il watch before i go to sleep
<daftykins> mapito: you watch films in more segments than my old man who relies on broadcast ;)
<mapps> yelllow
<mapps> anyone thats awake
<mapps> booked our flights to Hamburg..feb 9th going to hamburg
<shauno> morning
<mapps> morning shauno
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<ali12341> popey: what is the systemd conversion sprint?
<ali12341> *when
<popey> 16/17 jan i think
<ali12341> are you going to convert user session packages?
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107564545827215425270/posts/Fenok4AFeAb
<popey> me personally, no.
<ali12341> i mean ubuntu in general
<popey> pitti is the best person to ask
<popey> he leads the systemd migration
<ali12341> is it still planned to use upstart as session init?
<popey> pass
<ali12341> the reason i ask is because we use upstart in xubuntu and it is really bad
<popey> i have heard mention of replacing that but dont know when
<ali12341> for example, it starts services multiple times for no reason
<popey> yeah, poke pitti
<ali12341> i would really like to get away from using it, but we rely on it for the indicator services
<ali12341> (which also happen to be the same ones it starts multiple times for no reason)
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wabStOmmzMI
<knightwise> evenin everybody
<penguin42> evenin knightwise
<knightwise> hey penguin42 , how are you doing today
<penguin42> not too bad
<brobostigon> evening knightwise
<knightwise> hey bro
<knightwise> I got me an old 15 inch TFT display at the trift store , hooked it up to my Pi and am going to use it as my 'main machine' for a couple of days.
 * knightwise is working on an article about running linux on slower machines 
<brobostigon> :)
<zmoylan-pi> i first connected my pi to an ancient high end monitor via it's scart connector as i don't have and hdmi monitors :-)
<knightwise> Cool ! :) Scart ! now thats something I hadn't thought about
<knightwise> I could have hooked it up to an old Tv here :)
<knightwise> but .. using it on an older 15 inch TFT is not bad actually
<daftykins> then you would've never read a single letter
<knightwise> the smaller screen does give you a lot more 'focus' on what you are working on
<zmoylan-pi> i had a frankencable which was vga one end and hdmi the other and had it work on laptops but the pi doesn't put out enough leccy to make it work so i had to get... creative
<knightwise> Currently running : Terminator ,split into 3 windows ..
<knightwise> Links up top (with Slashdot on it)
<knightwise> wordgrinder bottom right
<knightwise> and an ssh to my remote Vm running irssi on the left
<knightwise> it works pretty good actually
<zmoylan-pi> though my geekiest connection is still using a 286 with 640k running dos to connect to internet and browse the web... very very slowly :-)
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I bow down to you, master !
<knightwise> ok , i'll be back in a tad, wife just made tea :)
<knightwise> earl grey .. hot
<knightwise> (not kidding)
<daftykins> "Fox orders a Minority Report TV pilot" - ooh-err
<penguin42> that's only taken them 10 years ish?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> wow, i'll feel old finding out what year that film came out
<knightwise> there was this tv show recently
<knightwise> with the guy who plays mccoy in star trek
<daftykins> Deforest something or other
<knightwise> he is a cop with a robot sidekick
<daftykins> no way :D
<knightwise> not deforest kelly
<knightwise> the Reboot-Mccoy
<daftykins> ooooh
<knightwise> but that Tv show had a LOT of minority report AND bladerunner winks in them.
<daftykins> so this is modern?
<knightwise> Yep
<daftykins> hrmm where'd you catch it?
<knightwise> bittorrent
<knightwise> ill look up the title , hold on , im on the pi remember
<daftykins> :D
<knightwise> allmost human
<knightwise> I highly highly recommend that show
<daftykins> ty sir!
<daftykins> for anyone else - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2654580/
<knightwise> meesa gonna watch some Tv (read : Netflix) because we don't have any cable anymore .. Watching 'top of the lake' New Zeeland wallpaper porn with a cop story underneath.
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> gah this plugin is unresponsive
<mapps> in ffox ALL the time
<daftykins> which?
<mapps> on my new laptop
<mapps> windows 8 i3..all the time flash is unresposnive
<mapps> i know its not ubuntu
<daftykins> no, which plugin :P
<mapps> its freaking annoying
<mapps> ohh
<mapps> flash
<daftykins> flash is fine on win8 here
<mapps> hm
<mapps> in ffox?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> v16
<m0nkey_> delete flash, install chrome. :)
<daftykins> chrome is not the second coming everyone acts like it is
<mapps> film time
<zmoylan-pi> picked up a few dvds from oxfam today myself
<m0nkey_> daftykins: maybe not. at least it lets me watch netflix without screwing around with wine and silverlight
<penguin42> daftykins: My experience is that both Firefox and Chrome go through bad patches, annoyingly sometimes they both go through bad patches at the same time
<zmoylan-pi> that's when you lapse and use opera :-)
<zmoylan-pi> ::spit::
<daftykins> m0nkey_: mmm fair enough, but that's your platform choice ;)
<mapps> i like opera!!!
<daftykins> penguin42: indeed :D +1 to that
<zmoylan-pi> i used to love opera but they've jumped the shark recently
<mapps> whats wrong wih it now
<zmoylan-pi> now it's a knockoff of chrome
<mapps> *with
<mapps> yea
<daftykins> though i think it's fair to say that for a clean profile freshly opened, RAM usage is higher on a Chrome setup
<zmoylan-pi> took out a lot of the neat features
<daftykins> though i'm only able to comment on Windows there
<zmoylan-pi> opera used to be the swiss army knife of browsers.  did a little of everything
<mapps> i lways thought it was fast and less resource intensive than others
<mapps> and i liked it:)
<daftykins> i never ran it
<zmoylan-pi> and i still depend on it on mobile as no other browser does half it's bag of tricks
<zmoylan-pi> rss, server side compression, sync bookmarks, don't drive moylan nuts with whizz bang pretty useless features...
<mapps> can sync bookmarks on chrome
<mapps> login and synch between devices
<zmoylan-pi> but that would involve using... you know... chrome :-)
<mapps> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> and completely misses on the don't drive moylan nuts list of requirements.  and google killed their rss thingy
<mapps> ah ye reder
<mapps> i use feedly
<zmoylan-pi> on mobile i use the builtin in rss of opera, at home i use newsbeuter
<zmoylan-pi> on the pi
<ali1234> you can sync on firefox too but you need a firefox account which has no other purposes
<daftykins> mapps: sync you say, is that like firefox sync? ;)
<ali1234> firefox also has built in rss
<daftykins> (i don't even use it XD) just pretty fair to say they have feature parity these days, for the most part
<zmoylan-pi> but is incredibly slow on android i find, and won't run on dumbphone :-)
<ali1234> yes, firefox on android is terrible
<daftykins> i thought about setting up firefox sync on my own host once, but never got around to it
<mapps> well
<zmoylan-pi> and isn't too fast on desktop with 1gb of ram
<mapps> tou login to your gmal ac basically
<daftykins> lol desktop with 1GB RAM :P what *is* fast, thoughts coming to mind of being thrown on the scrapheap? :D
<ali1234> well no modern browser is going to be fast in 1gb
<zmoylan-pi> qupzilla zips along
<zmoylan-pi> midori isn't too shabby either
<zmoylan-pi> /lite/ browsers
<ali1234> but they are barely browsers
<zmoylan-pi> they work well enough, have adblock, play the occasional java game
<daftykins> i'm quite chuffed with my latest silly image, for any Battlestar Galactica fans out there - https://www.dropbox.com/s/x808ztxk7b0jsfw/toaster.jpg?dl=0
<knightwise> daftykins: i'm a fan, but i'm afraid I dont get the context of your picture
<daftykins> yeah it was too vague i guess :( "fracking toasters"
<knightwise> aah
 * knightwise gets it
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-11
<mapps> hi all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> afternoon mammals
<penguin42> hmmm
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> allo
<popey> yo
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lyy7y0QOK-0
<diddledan> looks fun
<diddledan> then there's "ex machina" also about to be released to the cinema - similarly about ai
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> just watched a decent enough film - time apse
<mapp> teenage mutant heros up next
<mapp> :D
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/google-translate-is-getting-upgraded-to-take-on-skype-1678853763
<mapp> hm will read after could be interesting
<mapp> googe translate is super neat the audui -> text is cool
<mapp> tried it with someone speaking czech and it worked
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-11
<DJones> Aww, David Bowie has passed away
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> surprising
<DJones> Yeah, battling cancer for 18 months according to new reports
<DJones> I guess not the sort of thing somebody in the public eye would normally speak about
<knightwise> Good morning everyone
<daftykins> gm o/
<DJones> Morning knightwise
<daftykins> hrmm solid rain planned for the day... that makes it harder to be motivated to do much :)
<DJones> I think I'd rather have rain and a bit of warmth, rather than just cold temperatures, saying that, I'm indoors all day, so doesn't make much difference, looks like we get the rain tomorrow
<daftykins> it's doing a threatening sort of swirl - http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
<knightwise> Its getting chilly here :Ã 
<knightwise>  looking forward to some winter, hold off on the snow Since I need to drive
<DJones> First time ages I've had to deice the cars this morning
<daftykins> i need to visit an electrical supplier and then ride on to a clients to get a phone socket working, blech :)
<daftykins> hmm though i normally loathe forever speaking of the wars, there are some interesting snaps in this one - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-34544925
<knightwise> God .. the media will be bowie-dized for days
<daftykins> a better fate than the star wars hype :P
<knightwise> Haven't had time to go see the move yet
<knightwise> Still suffering from my "JJ-abrams reboot psychosis"
<knightwise> Looking at what he did to the star trek franchise , i look fearfully upon the white screen
<DJones> After the recent deaths from the music world, Lemmy, Bowie, Bradbury, Weiland, Taylor etc, there's be one hell of a supergroup in the heavens now
<knightwise> Labyrith : David Bowie at his very very best
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> Morning MooDoo
<daftykins> knightwise: my friends say it wasn't so much him in that film, but his crotch
<knightwise> "May the direction of bowies fallus point you towards the end of the labyrinth"
<popey> yo
<daftykins> allo
<daftykins> cor, proper hail storm just now
<MooDoo> ello
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> hows it going buddy
<MooDoo> knightwise: feel a bit low this morning, don't think I got enough sleep this morning :)
<MooDoo> sleep last night even!
<foobarry> snot
<foobarry> bleugh
<daftykins> gm foobarry \o
<foobarry> o/
 * daftykins nips off on postie watch
<foobarry> dogs are good for that
<foobarry> wow. just discovered a bug in lsdvd that causes all memory on the machine to be instantyly consumed
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Learn Your Name In Morse Code Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
<MooDoo> .--. .- ..- .-.. / -- . .-.. .-.. --- .-. ...
<Laney> .-- . .-.. .-.. / - .... .. ... / .. ... / ..-. ..- -.
<JamesTait> Very good, MooDoo! âº
<JamesTait> Laney, -.-- . ... / .. - / .. ... !
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing
<MooDoo> howdy brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, not bad, my eczema could be better, and you?
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoi2vx3iegw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qgG-tXyq6E
<davmor2> JamesTait: the morse I hear as I take hold of software is ... --- ... and it just repeats all the time
<davmor2> JamesTait: I take it that must be my name in morse right?
<diplo> Morning all, we've been having issues with time on our servers so I'm going through setting up ntpd on our customer sites, question though as my google foo is sucking
<diplo> Our documents are timed, I can't see how often ntpd daemon keeps up to date, just a little worried about the sync being out by minutes and then sorting itself and a credit goes through say before an invoice is created.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> hey bigcalm \o
<daftykins> another dead disk identified, oy.
<zmoylan-pi> remove it and hammer it in front of all the other disks as a warning... :-)
<davmor2> daftykins: is it named Bowie they all seem to die on the days stars do
<daftykins> too soon!
<Myrtti> deffo too soon
<zmoylan-pi> he may be gone but the music he left...
<davmor2> daftykins: nothing person by it, was more meaning that I'm pretty sure you disks seem to die around the same time as a Star (mind you we lost a lot in the last 12 months)
<daftykins> it's ok, it's just a user in #ubuntu ;)
<daftykins> one that it took many, many tries to run a couple of commands :/
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Indeed and it is wonderful Music too :)
<daftykins> diplo: did you run it by the #ubuntu-server folks? sorry no experience with ntpd
<diplo> I think I've worked it out daftykins
<daftykins> \o/
<diplo> Uses min/maxpoll, over a few days it works out how often it needs to update, between 63 seconds and 1024 seconds depending on the machine
<diplo> You can hard code it but advice is not to
<daftykins> i had heard installing it will only slowly begin to adjust toward the intended time, in increments
<diplo> Ah, I've fixed each site to be correct before setting it up
<daftykins> sounds good :)
<diplo> Only hoping it keeps it on time, will inspect each site that I've already done and see how they are fairing before doing more :)
<diddledan> davmor2: the second of those songs was well timed considering the news of David Bowie's passing :-(
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35278872
 * diddledan listens to life on mars
 * zmoylan-pi wonders how high his music goes in the charts in next few weeks
<davmor2> there is a new album out isn't there so possibly number 1
<daftykins> yeah
<davmor2> I would imagine if they re-release ashes to ashes, space oddity and red shoes they would get 123 in the single charts
<knightwise> Just installed FireSSH in Firefox.
<knightwise> pleasantly surprised
<knightwise> looks like putty ,feels like putty
<knightwise> isnt putty
<daftykins> does it do URL parsing so you can click links?
<daftykins> i guess it *is* in a browser XD
<diddledan> I get putty and lube confused.
<diddledan> all my windows keep falling out
<SuperMatt> badum *CRASH*
<daftykins> amusing story last night that skylake CPUs have a bug which gets tripped by prime95, the intensive prime number program - causing a full freeze
<daftykins> BIOS updates will be on the way :)
<knightwise> daftykins: it should
<knightwise> but it doenst refresh the screen well
<knightwise> Hence: Switched to SecureShell in chrome
<diddledan> yeesh, is it a bug in the cpu itself?
<diddledan> that will be a pain to fix properly
<daftykins> that's what microcode updates are for :)
<daftykins> there wasn't much detail in theregister's article
<SuperMatt> question: why is ssh in a browser window preferable to an actual terminal window?
<davmor2> You remind me of the babe
<diddledan> what babe?
<bittin-> this bae
<bittin-> :p
<diddledan> ruined it
<diddledan> davmor2: try again
 * SuperMatt throws his hands up in the air in exasperation
 * diddledan tuts
<SuperMatt> you remind me of the babe. what babe? the babe with the power. what power? the power of voodoo. Who do? You do. Do what? Remind me of the babe
<SuperMatt> there, we've got it all
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/K7cFXSDN_5k
<SuperMatt> and I don't know why I started adding caps in the middle
<davmor2> You remind me of the Babe
<SuperMatt> What babe?
<davmor2> babae with the power
<davmor2> -a
<SuperMatt> What Power
<davmor2> power of voodoo
<SuperMatt> Who do?
<davmor2> you do
<SuperMatt> Do what?
<davmor2> remind me of the babe
<diddledan> \o/
<davmor2> \o/ thanks SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> you're welcome
<diddledan> gotta love collaborative singing
 * SuperMatt nods
 * SuperMatt is dying for a little nap
<diddledan> mmm, snoozing ftw
<SuperMatt> I just wanna be back at the flat with the cat
<diddledan> kittie!
<diddledan> I want a kittie
<MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0
<SuperMatt> diddledan: we adopted a 14 year old with dietry issues, and he's just such a lovely chap
<diddledan> awww
 * diddledan cuddles
<SuperMatt> https://goo.gl/photos/XAjrWrRKFsfWp4cYA
<diddledan> soo cute with his lil teddy bear!
<SuperMatt> https://goo.gl/photos/pjGvNHhF4iEasDW17 - here he is playing "The floor is lava" which I try to fix some ikea drawers for more stability
<SuperMatt> *while
<diddledan> I read a while back that geeky/engineering types prefer cats over dogs
<SuperMatt> I prefer dogs because they're more intelligent in my eyes, but the cat is low maintenance, and it's what the girl wanted
<diddledan> based on my sample of me, I can state that the belief is 100% accurate
<SuperMatt> very good science, well done
<diddledan> I do like dogs, too, though, just prefer the company of a kittie :-)
<popey> Trying to convince wife we should get a dogy
<popey> but she's not having any of it
<diddledan> popey: convince the kids then the wife has to capitulate under the weight of democracy :-p
<Myrtti> popey: why not? hair and dust?
<popey> poo
<Myrtti> pft.
<diddledan> poopey :-p
<Myrtti> I'd want a Finnish lapphund but I think it'll have to wait a bit longer
<Myrtti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdcTHQ6OQHk
<SuperMatt> popey: if the missus can change a nappy, she can pick up after a dog!
<SuperMatt> In fact, it's often less messy
<popey> yeah, we're both capable of doing it
<popey> changing a nappy is a matter of necessity
<Myrtti> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dyson-Cinetic-DC54-i-Brand-New-5-year-Dyson-guarantee-/111821945687 â¥
<Myrtti> or rather, I love this even more than the vacuum itself http://www.dyson.co.uk/vacuum-cleaners/accessories/pet-hair/tangle-free-turbine-tool.aspx
<foobarry> "pet hair"
<foobarry> my wifes hair is what tangles it
<foobarry> dog hair is tiny
<ujjain> do most mortgage providers allow overpayment or not?
<foobarry> hard to generalise, need to check per mortgage i expect
<Myrtti> foobarry: yes, and my yarn.
<foobarry> and dental floss
<Myrtti> yarn and human hair were our reasons to get it
<foobarry> if it doesn't go in the bin completely, it wanders out
<foobarry> my wife has been dying her yarns lately too
<foobarry> she has borrowed a drum carder
<foobarry> so is getting fleeces, washing, drumming , dyeing, spinning
<popey> ujjain, yes AIUI
<ujjain> right, I might have a look on buying a first house.
<diddledan> remember popey INAL
<moreati> Sanity check: Ubuntu 15.10 users, when you change volume with multimedia keyboard keys, does anything appear on the screen?
<diddledan> yes
<SuperMatt> ujjain: basically it all depends on what your provider allows. Some will allow you to over pay, but won't let you miss a payment even if you've over paid 11 out of 12 months, others just won't let you over pay at all
<moreati> right, I did break something then. ty diddledan
<ujjain> right, I'll write this on my checklist, find a provider that'll allow it.
<SuperMatt> and you definitely cannot under pay on a mortgage
<ujjain> eh, hehe, right.
<SuperMatt> ujjain: if it's your first buy, you'll find the number of providers is veeeeeeeeeeery slim
<diddledan> moreati: specifically a progress-bar-like indicator on the top-right of the screen telling you the current volume level
<ujjain> I have a good salary though and I don't need an expensive house.
<SuperMatt> ujjain: that's what I thought, though I am in london meaning I have to jump through more hoops that most
<diddledan> moreati: https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4zzz02q1r5bnpr/Screenshot%20from%202016-01-11%2015-41-23.png?dl=0
<foobarry> all houses are expensive in london
<foobarry> one of my mortgages wouldn't let me overpay within first 3 years
<SuperMatt> tell me about it
<SuperMatt> my two bed flat is twice the price of my borther's two up two down
<SuperMatt> *brother
<SuperMatt> but he now has a child to worry about, and I'm sitting pretty with my kitty
<ujjain> I'm in London too
<ujjain> I don't really necessarily want to overpay right now, but if interest rises to e.g. 6%
<ujjain> I'd like the option to overpay
<ujjain> 2% or 6% on 500k, first affordable, second one deadly
<popey> holy cow, this year I'll have lived in this house 15 years!
<diddledan> bovine deity!
<ujjain> congrats! :)
<foobarry> is that also the length of your marriage?
<foobarry> so far
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if popey's residence is ipv4 or ipv6 :-)
<popey> no, 16 years
<popey> married in 2000 so I could easily remember how many years I've been wed
<bigcalm> popey: is it the way I have configured my phone, or does the PlusOne X have a pants battery life?
<popey> '97 met, '98 rented together, '99 engaged, '00 house, '01-02 nuffink, '03 first child :)
<popey> bigcalm, define pants?
<popey> i dunno mine is often plugged in
<popey> and i never leave the house
<bigcalm> popey: 100% charge this morning. 25% charge now
<popey> i often turn on android power saving
<bigcalm> I did drive to work today, so was without wifi for about an hour
<popey> i have bluetooth on all the time mostly, for pebble
<bigcalm> Do you have the gestures enabled?
<popey> yes
<popey> circle and v?
<bigcalm> I have bt on for my wrist band thing
<bigcalm> popey: yes o and v
<bigcalm> Maybe it's because I've only just got the phone and thus playing with it more
<popey> battery thing says 88% approx 21 hrs left
<popey> i turned off some animations and stuff
<ujjain> you can't rent out your own home if you have a mortgage, right?
<popey> http://imgur.com/nZIZtL5
<popey> depends on the mortgage
<ujjain> for me '14, didn't know eachother '15 met, '15 she got kicked out of the country,
<popey> erk
<bigcalm> http://imgur.com/IwfzkAe
<bigcalm> Seems it wasn't 100% this morning but last night. Even so
<popey> lots of screen on time
<popey> so yeah, you're probably playing with it more than me
<bigcalm> Aye
<popey> like the device tho?
<bigcalm> It'll improve over time
<bigcalm> Very much so
<ujjain> I used to have a Nexus 5, battery was horrid, I played too much with it I guess
<popey> i hate that i keep pressing the power button when i pick it up
<ujjain> @popey; too many notifications
<ujjain> they don't bother you?
<popey> well done
<bigcalm> popey: slightly regretting buying the Karbon shell with my order. Didn't realise that it came with a clear jelly shell that is nicer to use.
<popey> I wondered who would be the first to mention the notifications
<popey> why would they bother me, it's on my desk, with the display off
<bigcalm> popey: I haven't done that. But I do keep pressing volume down when I want to press power
<popey> phones should have power buttons on the top, not the side
<popey> [FACT]
<popey> iphone 4 was the pinnacle of phone design imo :)
<zmoylan-pi> nokia e61i to my mind
<popey> was that symbian?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<zmoylan-pi> was all downhill after the e61i
<Myrtti> I loved my N95
<zmoylan-pi> the n95, another classic. met a hotel porter who used the n95 to torrent movies in his pocket while he was at work
<Myrtti> I used it for IRC, and for taking the best photos I've ever taken, and listening to audiobooks
<SuperMatt> no way he won't be found out
<ujjain> 11 days into the year and still no tube strike, itâs a miraccccccleee ð
 * ujjain opens newspaper
<ujjain> Tuesday 26 January - Tube Strike
 * SuperMatt nods sagely
<SuperMatt> I don't know whether to try to work from home, or take annual leave
<zmoylan-pi> it willen have been a tube strike if it happens... :-)
<ujjain> work from home, that's what Mitchell and Webb'd do.
<SuperMatt> yeah, but what about the wa...
<bigcalm> popey: am I mad or is there no gallery app on the phone? (ignoring Google photos)
<bigcalm> <popey> yes
<popey> thats the default photos app now, innit?
<bigcalm> Is it? Didn't realise that
<popey> i thought so
<bigcalm> After taking a photo, one can scroll though past photos. Thought that was using a gallery app
<popey> that used to be the case
<popey> but Google merged them into one app i thought
<popey> if you search play store for gallery then you'll find google photos
<popey> thats the app i use
<popey> i thought it was pre-installed?
<bigcalm> It is pre-installed
<bigcalm> On my SGS5 with CM12.1 (and now 13.0), there was a separate app for Gallery that wasn't Google photos
<bigcalm> Hence my surprise
<bigcalm> I'll live :)
<ujjain> Yeah, I prefered Gallery too
<bigcalm> The camera is nice https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/686588390352007170
<diddledan> bigcalm: you've got a nice pair
<Myrtti> it's merged yeah
<bigcalm> diddledan: they were a lovely juicy pair
<Myrtti> bigcalm: which SW did you end up seeing?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: imax 3d. It was okay
<moreati> bigcalm: the 3D part or the SW part?
<diddledan> I really need to go watch that
<bigcalm> Myrtti: the drugs I'm on make my emotions quite muted. That said, I enjoyed the film, so that's saying something
<Myrtti> the 3D was a lacklustre for me
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I'm not on any drugs and it was a relatively muted affair for me, too. I cried far less than what I expected
<bigcalm> I think that 3d shouldn't be the point of the film. An addition to it that you don't really notice but adds depth. Avatar did it well. I haven't seen it used correctly since then sadly
<bigcalm> moreati: 2D would have been just as good
<Myrtti> we watched Finding Nemo in 3D at home with the new telly and it was amazing
<moreati> Myrtti: ditto, but saw Dredd
<zmoylan-pi> the dredd movie was amazing, i would have loved to have seen that in cinema in 3d
<bigcalm> Watched Empire Strikes Back (DVD) last night and saw that it was better than anything else, ever
<diddledan> bigcalm: he said let there be starwars. and there was starwars. and he looked upon it and saw that it was good.
<diddledan> day 8 of the creation story
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, my movie last night was ronin... and it was explody... :-)
<bigcalm> Will likely watch Return of the Jedi at some point this week, though I know it will never live up to Empire
<diddledan> wow, I've not seen that in forever
<zmoylan-pi> great car chases, great shoot outs, great dialog...
<zmoylan-pi> what colour is the boat house in hereford?!
<zmoylan-pi> tonights movie... i went down...
<awilkins> Dredd in 3D was pretty cool
<awilkins> Especially the slowmo scenes
<popey> bigcalm, yeah, I like the camera, but my previous phone camera I used was Nexus 4, so not hard to be better than that garbage
<zmoylan-pi> unlike most movies which are just made 3d it looked like someone thought ahead with dredd and made bits of it to look spectacular in 3d
<diddledan> just hit bug #1529146
<lubotu3> bug 1529146 in linux (Ubuntu Wily) "btrfs balance leads to kernel panic" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1529146
<diddledan> did a bit of research and posted a link to an LKML message about the issue onto the bug
<diddledan> also added the redhat issue for the same into launchpad's tracking
<diddledan> o_O "Bug watch updates for Red Hat Bugzilla are disabled." whyfor?
<diddledan> silly launchpad
<diddledan> yey for calendar reminders - I'd forgotten it was silent witness tonight
<popey> diddledan, good work finding the patch
<diddledan> thanks :-)
<mapps> hi:D
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-12
 * diddledan bounces
 * zmoylan-pi listens to podcasts
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkm80hiea11nwyw/Upload%20Studio.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> i just skipped a big boss in Halo 5 by jumping right by o0
<knightwise> morning everyone
<daftykins> gm o/
 * zmoylan-pi looks out internet window and calls the day a loss... http://www.earthcam.com/world/ireland/dublin/?cam=templebar
<daftykins> they've still got their decorations up!
<zmoylan-pi> yeah. a bit sad that
<knightwise> pulled down the very last of ours last night.
<Myrtti> I've been feeling a bit poorly so ours are still up.
<zmoylan-pi> well if a pub in ireland can leave them up this late... :-)
 * zmoylan-pi goes to seek life giving porridge...
<daftykins> http://www.nest.gg/webcams/webcam.html
<daftykins> yay lots of blown over cameras at funny angles :)
<SuperMatt> happy "try not to get ill" day
<zmoylan-pi> they're art installations :-P
<knightwise> man .. these are one of the most depressing webcams ... ever
<daftykins> knightwise: which?
<knightwise> pretty much all of them ?
<knightwise> or is that just ireland in winter ,
<daftykins> if you mean my link that's right now on a very storm swept Guernsey
<zmoylan-pi> here's a calm dun laoire harbour... http://dlharbour.ie/weather/
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise how are you?
<daftykins> o/
<knightwise> doing ok MooDoo . another semi boring day at the client :)
<MooDoo> booooo
 * daftykins debates trading days
<zmoylan-pi> better than an exciting day with servers exploding like a star trek bridge set :-)
<daftykins> oof that sausage roll and chocolate torsade from Pasty Presto just formed a great weight :>
 * MooDoo wants to go home and sleep
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: funny you say that! i need to pop somewhere and find out why one hasn't come back after a power cut
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: THAT I would love to see some day
<knightwise> hmm.. gotta look into finding some custom firmware for my ebook reader tonight.
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> i did have one pc explode while my head was beside it as i turned it on...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: whowh :)
<daftykins> how long did it take the ringing in the ears to subside?
<zmoylan-pi> luckily i hang around cats so by the time it exploded i was under the table huddled for safety
<zmoylan-pi> about 2-3 minutes of ringing ears and flash distorted vision
<daftykins> cor!
<zmoylan-pi> then i could hear all the burglar alarms and see all the buildings on industrial estate without power
<daftykins> interesting superpower ;)
<zmoylan-pi> building was surrounded on 2 sides by big office blocks all lights out
<zmoylan-pi> one of them was ms so it wasn't all bad :-P
<daftykins> there's something that makes me laugh about the #ubuntu guy who got some malware up on google chrome, which made popups appear saying he needed to contact 'Windows support'
<MooDoo> lol
<knightwise> Playing with RTV, great command line client :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Poetry At Work Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> roses are red... violets are blue... keep this up... and we'll kidnap your gnu...
<JamesTait> ð  Very good, zmoylan-pi!
<JamesTait> Today is Tuesday, It's Poetry At Work Day, This makes me happy.
 * zmoylan-pi looks up recipes for gnu...
<knightwise> "For My love is true", the Stapler denotes .. his undying love for the post it notes ...
<knightwise> #workpoetry
 * zmoylan-pi gets my copy of vogon poetry out of the locked box...
<ujjain> what does * * * every line during a traceroute mean? firewall is fine, but all network traffic is timing out between 2 locations
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: don"t you dare !
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<JamesTait> ujjain, * * * means you got no ICMP reply from the node.
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<MooDoo> no one here but us chickens!
<knightwise> pang
<diddledan> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<bigcalm> !sing
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> ding dong the b*t*h is dead
<foobarry> mmmm jelly snakes
<RMJ> afternoon all, was wondering if anyone has a few minutes to advise on ubuntu compatability with UK-available laptops? Having a nightmare with one I bought last year and really don't want to repeat the same issues with a new one
<Myrtti> what kind of laptop are you looking for, and what did you get last year?
<RMJ> Thanks Myrtti - I bought a Lenovo Yoga last year (intel pentium bay trail) and it's been truly awful with linux, i'm looking for something small and cheap, even something like a chrombook/cloudbook sort of thing. Since 15.10 seems to be showing  a lot of problems with bay trail processors though and almost every small cheap notebook seems to have o
<RMJ> ne
<Myrtti> so what's your budget?
<Myrtti> both "hopeful" and "not past this number" estimates are helpful
<RMJ> cheap as possible, less than Â£300, only looking for a <13in screen
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> I personally don't look for laptops under 850, so I've no idea. Chromebooks were at one point possible to upgrade into using real Linux, but I haven't looked at that side since I got my 2014 Dell XPS13
<foobarry> do you still have the yoga?
<RMJ> or am I asking the impossible here? I figured a chromebook should have excellent linux compatibility, obviously, but since 15.1 this bay trail bug worries me
<foobarry> any links to more info about the bay trail bug?
<RMJ> yeah still got it, but its not booting atm - boots fsck then hangs
<RMJ> there's a few on askubuntu where people with similar processors seem to be having the same problem - usually with acers, Im guessing its a bay trail thing but not 100% sure. The system randomly (no matter what applications are open) freezes completely - no mouse/keyboard response, can only be hard reset by holding power key. Sometimes happens after
<RMJ>  10 minutes, sometimes works fine for hour. Doesn't write anything to the syslog.
<foobarry> sometimes this is an ACPI thing
<foobarry> kernel options required at boot
<foobarry> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HP_Chromebook_14
<foobarry> might be of interest
<RMJ> could be, had a catalogue of ACPI issues with it - one fix I've tried has been changing the grub settings but it developed another problem before I had chance to test it thoroughly (there's no way I can find to trigger the bug so just have to see if it happens)
<foobarry> RMJ, any BIOS updates?
<RMJ> not sure actually, probably worth checking that out if the thing ever boots
<RMJ> not the only issues i've had with it though - appalling wifi, no bluetooth, touchscreen works sporadically (not a huge loss)
<RMJ> touchpad issues etc etc etc
<RMJ> not ubuntu's fault, just v. frustrating
<RMJ> http://askubuntu.com/questions/690416/ubuntu-15-10-freeze-on-acer-e11-bay-trail-cpu
<foobarry> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 109051 in intel_idle "intel_idle.max_cstate=1 required on baytrail to prevent crashes" [Normal,New]
<foobarry> some info on there
<RMJ> excellent, the fix will work if it ever boots then :)
<foobarry> your mileage may vary
<foobarry> the comments are variable
<RMJ> at the moment it freezes on boot with an fsck readout so we will never know :P
<RMJ> thanks all for input
<foobarry> you can edit grub options :D
<RMJ> found a bios update (had to do it through windows though)
<RMJ> foobarry - added the line to grub config last night and it seemed to work (we will see). The not booting is a separate issue, no idea why its broken now
<foobarry> if you can upload a pic of the screen, it may enlighten a little
<foobarry> getting your laptop fixed is better than buying a new one :D
<RMJ> black screen reading "fsck from util-linux 2.26.2 /dev/sda9: clean....." then a load of numbers for files and blocks
<RMJ> after the ubuntu loading/splash screen, then nothing, it just hangs on the fsck screen
<foobarry> using RAID?
<RMJ> no
<foobarry> try booting an older kernel from grub?
<RMJ> tried that, didn't make a difference
<foobarry> nvidia card?
<RMJ> think its intel onboard
<foobarry> worth checking the settings in bios
<RMJ> tried to change display manager from lightdm to gdm, which is why i restarted, but can't imagine it making it do this
<foobarry> ctrl-C do anything?
<foobarry> or boot single mode
<RMJ> no, and doesn't seem to cancel the filesystem check either (maybe the window to press it in is really small?)
<RMJ> single mode?
<foobarry> add the word single to the end of the grub options
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/132965/how-do-i-boot-into-single-user-mode-from-grub
<RMJ> one sec need to work out how to edit grub config
<RMJ> in recovery mode
<RMJ> k done
<foobarry> you get a prompt?
<foobarry> maybe try fsck of your disk or revert some changes you recently made
<RMJ> doesn't seem to be doing anything, just a purpleish screen
<RMJ> trying again, might have made a mistake
<RMJ> yeah got a prompt
<RMJ> emergency mode, sounds exciting
<RMJ> some progress anyway. thanks foobarry
<foobarry> no prob
<RMJ> ooh it just booted to a tty
<RMJ> having done a umount then fsck with 1 fix
<RMJ> ah so i can load a tty from the fsck but it won't load lightdm
<RMJ> sod it. reinstall.
<foobarry> anyone used mosh?
<foobarry> http://mosh.mit.edu
<Azelphur> foobarry: I have
<Myrtti> I tried, found it confusing and frustrating, and stopped
<foobarry> oh
<Azelphur> didn't really confuse me, worked well with my android phone
<Azelphur> Mixed reviews, I guess :)
<Myrtti> oh bother, just remembered I need to cook
<Myrtti> was ready for a nap
<Myrtti> boo
<foobarry> user is requesting i install it
<Azelphur> foobarry: I would, it's entirely optional and can't really do any harm to you
<foobarry> i need to open some ports
<foobarry> the security scares me a bit
<foobarry> changing IP addresses
<foobarry> roaming users
<Azelphur> Bought a DisplayPort to HDMI cable, pavucontrol doesn't show any audio device. Any ideas?
<daftykins> ugh such adapting can be wonky even on Windows :P
<Azelphur> computer only has displayport
<Azelphur> (and VGA)
<daftykins> laptop or something? so miniDP?
<Azelphur> it's a Dell PowerEdge
<Azelphur> (home server type thing)
<daftykins> any links / model ?
<daftykins> back shortly
<Azelphur> PowerEdge T20
<daftykins> Azelphur: any sign of your adapter being a 19 pin one?
<Azelphur> daftykins, I should take it out and send you a photo?
<daftykins> nah i won't have a clue visually, just what the packaging might infer
<Azelphur> don't have the packaging sadly
<daftykins> any text on the cable sheathing?
<Azelphur> daftykins, just says "High speed cable"
<daftykins> is it a xeon in that thing?
<Azelphur> yes
<daftykins> can you share a "grep -i model /proc/cpuinfo" ? just one line though naturally :>
<Azelphur> model name	: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1225 v3 @ 3.20GHz
<daftykins> hmm not quite the same model but - https://communities.intel.com/thread/48407?start=0&tstart=0
<daftykins> "Engineering has said they will not be developing drivers to make this work."
<daftykins> i'm sure that's Windows talk, but still pretty damning
<popey> Azelphur, "pactl list" - what does that show (pastebin?)
<Azelphur> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/14479595/
<popey> ta
<popey> no hdmi, chances are the sound isn't wired up to the displayport?
<Azelphur> popey, wired up?
<daftykins> or it's not getting told the device at the other end is capable
<popey> internally
<Azelphur> oh, ie a motherboard issue
<popey> nah, it would show up whether plugged in or not
<Azelphur> could be
<popey> e.g. my laptop shows up two of them, because it's in a docking station, one port on laptop, one port on docking station
<popey> despite only one being connected to a display
<Azelphur> kinda a letdown
<daftykins> actually, maybe it wouldn't hurt to check if all 19 pins are there on the HDMI end
<daftykins> probably unlikely it isn't though!
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14479609/
<popey> thats my laptop
<daftykins> Azelphur: how'd you obtain such a niche type of device o0
<popey> Notice the alsa.mixer.name "Intel CougarPoint HDMI"
<popey> Azelphur, do you have a fairly standard kernel? So it would detect all the right devices?
<daftykins> http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8801-ts140-audio-issues/#entry94967
<popey> 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
<popey> do you have a similar type of thing in lspci
<popey> (e.g. in my pactl output there's the device.vendor.id and device.product.id which match the output in lspci -n)
<popey> i.e. do you have any audio controllers in lspci
<Azelphur> popey, yea it's a standard 15.10 kernel
<Azelphur> daftykins, looks like me
<popey> So yes, not wired up internally.
<popey> Not surprising on that class of device.
<Azelphur> yea indeed, not surprising
<Azelphur> shame but not the end of the world
<popey> can always stick a usb sound card in if you need to
<Azelphur> well it has 3.5mm out
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/kwmobile-adapter-converter-stereo-conection/dp/B013V21KNO
<popey> get a thing like that, which lets you inject audio into the hdmi signal
<popey> At least I think that's what it does :D
<Azelphur> popey, nice gadget
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/12/microsofts_get_windows_10_nagware_is_showing_signs_of_sentience/
<diddledan> daftykins: lol
<diddledan> yey for green goo
<diddledan> oh, it's grey?
<diddledan> that's less fun
<daftykins> the truth is out there, find out on the 24th when Mulder and Scully return :O
<diddledan> \o/
 * diddledan hums the theme
<daftykins> or maybe 25th timezones considered
<daftykins> aww it's totally more of a whistle ;)
<diddledan> my windows preview status seems to be broken :-(
<daftykins> i wiped mine to play with Hyper-V a while ago
<diddledan> I got hyper-v in the same system 'cos it's a pro version
<diddledan> windows update reports "Your preview build settings need attention. Go to Advanced options to fix this issue."
<daftykins> i needed to test a proper dedi-host setup
<daftykins> with SCVMM and all that mess :)
<diddledan> doing so seems to do nothing, tell me to reboot and then it's back in the same state again after the restart
<diddledan> oh yeah, that thing
<daftykins> maybe nuke your %windir%\SoftwareDistribution\ ? :>
<diddledan> is that safe?
<daftykins> of course, 'tis the WU woes standard procedure
<daftykins> stop the WU service first though
<diddledan> WU otherwise works fine tho
<daftykins> ah well
<diddledan> seems it's a common problem: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install/your-security-settings-need-attention-to-get/9b3f4512-9177-48dc-921b-a70da1b04193?auth=1
<diddledan> ok, I think that might have fixed it - turn-off insider completely, then do the registry tweek from that link, and finally enable insider again and reboob
<diddledan> nope, that didn't work
<diddledan> oh, maybe it did
<diddledan> it's fixed now after running their "fix me" a second time - so the steps above, then when it moans after the reboob do their automatic fix and then follow the prompt to reboob again and THEN it's fixed...maybe
<diddledan> and now it's offering me a pukka insider build for install \o/
<diddledan> 11082
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-13
<diddledan> where'd everyone go?
<zmoylan-pi> they're off checking their attics for their old sleds and toboggans
<popey> is it supposed to snow?
<zmoylan-pi> cold snap on thursday for some parts of uk and ireland
<popey> oh
<popey> cool
<diddledan> the iplayer just advertised something at me, "a bbc iplayer original"
<popey> yeah
<popey> heard about a thing - comedian guy what's his name
<diddledan> when did they start doing that?
<popey> Frank Skinner, that's it.
<popey> recently
<popey> his thing is even worse, it's a chat show _about_ iplayer
<popey> or the things people watch
<diddledan> this was for "the rack pack"
<diddledan> some drama about snooker
<zmoylan-pi> what you want is a long documentary on snooker commentary...
<popey> ooooh and that's a bad miss
<zmoylan-pi> on radio...
<daftykins> for those watching in black and white, the pink is behind the red
 * zmoylan-pi remembers that one
<daftykins> my dad told me of it :D
<zmoylan-pi> the whole class knackered because we had all stayed up till 2am watching the snooker including the teacher
<daftykins> i enjoy playing pool but watching it? noooo
<zmoylan-pi> hugely popular back in 80s
<zmoylan-pi> as was cycling, marathons and other sports that barely make the news these days
<mapps> hi
<diddledan> morning, mapps
<mapps> what you upto this morning?
<diddledan> I'm messing with windows and .net/c# stuffs
<mapps> hm never used .net really
<mapps> programming stuff?
<diddledan> yeah. messing with a .net implementation of php
<diddledan> called "phalanger"
<mapps> i see
<mapps> what did you make in php? just curious:D
<diddledan> with PHP I mostly do WordPress stuffs
<mapps> ah
<knightwise> mornin
<mapps> morn
<knightwise> hey mapps , how you doin
<mapps> not bad pal, i need to get myself a desk an chair...cant think where from though
<knightwise> mapps: you workin from home ,
<mapps> nah
<mapps> but sick of sitting on the bed with my laptop
<knightwise> mapps: that aint good
<knightwise> back for back
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> you brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> so brobostigon what are you up to today ?
<brobostigon> jc at 10.20 then meeting up with my partner.
<knightwise> jc ?
<brobostigon> job centre.
<knightwise> aha
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> who is visiting the Job Centre
<MooDoo> howdy all
<davmor2> The power of MooDoo, who do? you do, do what? remind me of the babe
<davmor2> I've been saving that one up just for you dude ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: well it put a smile on my face :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: It's all part of the service, I do charge extra for happiness though ;)
<MooDoo> cheque is in the post mate :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Dude, c'mon not that old china, at least go with dog ate my cheque book I'm waiting for a new one ;)
 * davmor2 receives an image from MooDoo of a picture of a man infront of a czech flag
<foobarry> wow.
<foobarry> just ran vlc on a machine without realising -X wasn't on my session. got batman in ascii art
<foobarry> didn't realise that was a feature
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy Skeptics Day! ð
<knightwise> Whow
<knightwise> thats cool
<zmoylan-pi> i'm doubtful of that...
<foobarry> it was useful
<foobarry> the file was called .m4v and i didn't know what film it was. colleague and I figured it out
<foobarry> by squinting from the other side of the room
<zmoylan-pi> i suppose you have to watch the matrix at least once as ascii art... :-P
<davmor2> JamesTait: this seems appropriate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kimrhwS3VlU
<knightwise> hahah zmoylan-pi that would be awesome
<JamesTait> davmor2, YES!
<diddledan> just as I read a review of the new x-files
<knightwise> Dman :( mps-youtube wont install on the rasp py
<knightwise>  ImportError: No module named youtube_dl
<foobarry> i saw that scully lady in the street not long ago
<foobarry> my mate went crazy, fortunately was restrained from speaking/slobbering on her
<knightwise> the "new" x-files ?
<knightwise> as in the reboot ?
<diddledan> yes
<diddledan> http://www.indiewire.com/article/review-the-x-files-revival-shows-its-age-in-season-10-premiere-20151010
 * knightwise is getting old that he didn"t notice that
<zmoylan-pi> well there was a lot of star wars news drowning it out a smidge
<foobarry> i did enjoy star wars
<foobarry> wondered why a regular process run via cron  was suddenly eating 12gb ram
<foobarry> it had an extra 30M lines in the file. usualy it has 5000.
<czajkowski> people who use libreoffice for presentations, when the side pane goes bye bye, how do you make itcome back!!
<czajkowski> want to see side pane beside the slide
<xnox> bash F1-F12 keys until it's back?!
<xnox> .... is the extended of my libreoffice usage skillz
<knightwise> czajkowski: i weep for you...
 * knightwise hates dogy presentation apps like .. powerpoint
<foobarry> ear worm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRxRX6Mr3Lk
<brobostigon> is it possible to send a text to my phone on a highlight in irssi?
<foobarry> does it have to be a text
<foobarry> not a notification?
<brobostigon> options like pushover and pushbullet exist, but i was just curious about the problem.
<Myrtti> brobostigon: android?
<brobostigon> Myrtti: ubuntu touch/firefox os/sailfish os.
<Myrtti> oh.
<Myrtti> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fi.iki.murgo.irssinotifier&hl=en_GB would've been the standard Android answer.
<brobostigon> yes, thats what i use on my droid.
<m0nkey_> If you want text messaging, maybe something like clickatell and develop something around their API
<brobostigon> let me look that up.
<m0nkey_> Clickatell is a paid service, like many SMS gatewates
<m0nkey_> *gateways
<brobostigon> i see.
<m0nkey_> Or the cheapest way to do it, if your mobile operator supports it, is to use the e-mail to SMS gateway.. usually you can send something like 0123456789@sms.yourtelco.com
<brobostigon> yes, i have read about that option.
<diplo> brobostigon: I use Telegrams API with Nagios :)
<diplo> tis free
<brobostigon> :)
<m0nkey_> ^-- that works
<diplo> Just have to amend irssi-notifier? to use telegram cli instead I guess, not tried that
<diplo> Interesting though
<brobostigon> i shall have a look into that one.
<diplo> Got very very rudimentary code on how I did it on my github if you want a look
<brobostigon> thank you.
<davmor2> foobarry: that's not an earworm, this is an earworm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe93CLbHjxQ or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6CDFn2i3I or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
<foobarry> we'll see what happens at 2am tonight
<foobarry> when i wake up
<foobarry> because the internal jukebox has kicked in
<davmor2> foobarry: oh internal jukebox in that case I'll throw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mGBaXPlri8 into the mix
<foobarry> there used to be an advert for frankfurters
<foobarry> with an annoying repetitive song
<foobarry> do do doo-doo do do doo-doo do dooo doo do do do
<davmor2> foobarry: skol skol skol skol skol skol skol skol skol skol
<foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qAuoXBNkw0
<foobarry> also my old friend mungo jerry
<foobarry> sang a catchy little tune
<davmor2> foobarry: It is in the international sign that Summer is here when you hear it :)
<foobarry> having your own github instance onsite is so handy
 * bigcalm hugs gitlab
<diplo> About to try gitlab here and import our svn repo
<diplo> Did you guys use the omnibus package ?
<m0nkey_> diplo: using gitlab at work.. omnibus works great
<diddledan> ditto
<m0nkey_> and i'm prepared for the hate... running on centos :)
<diddledan> I use omnibus packages too
<diddledan> m0nkey_: not bsd? :-p
<m0nkey_> diddledan: unfortunately my current hard on BSD doesn't spill over to my professional life just yet.
<diddledan> hehe
<diplo> m0nkey_: I have to use CentOS at work too :/
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> at least you're not using Gentoo :-D
<diplo> Will set up a VM tomorrow and play
<diplo> diddledan: SCO 5 work for you ?
<diddledan> hah
<diplo> Two sites still on it, a couple of Redhat 8 boxes
<diddledan> that's awesome from a geek perspective, less so from a usability stance
<diplo> It's a royal pain in my arse :/
<diplo> So are the multitude of Cent 4 boxes
<diddledan> ooh, 4 is ancient now
<diplo> Getting there with upgrading now though, just moved a customer live with cent6 today, from sco 5
<diddledan> \o/
<diplo> His previous machine didn't have internet access, this one has, unfortunately their internal network is 195.194 range, which is actualyl part of Janet, Can't change it yet either
<diplo> :/
<m0nkey_> Dammit Janet!
<diplo> tbh with all the changes we've done for them for this upgrade, why we didn't go the whole hog and sort their network out too is beyond me :/
 * m0nkey_ loves console only teamviewer :)
<m0nkey_> Latest version of TV supports headless Linux boxes now
<diplo> Didn't know that was an option
<foobarry> diplo: i hav esome janet boxes on 194
<diplo> This was based in walsall
<foobarry> walsall have internet?
<m0nkey_> diplo: it is :)
<diplo> I shall investigate m0nkey_ :)
<diplo> hah foobarry
<m0nkey_> I'm also disappointed nobody got my Rocky Horror Picture Show reference.
<SuperMatt> problem with a reference like that is that it is so well known that no one reacts any more
<m0nkey_> I'm still disappointed.
<diplo> Not by me, never watched it!
<popey> dont think I have ever seen RHPS
<m0nkey_> You could have at least said "Oh, Brad!"
<diplo> See not the only one :D
<m0nkey_> I downloaded it again the other day, been meaning to watch it again for the 50th time in my life.
<m0nkey_> Tim Curry is awesome.
<m0nkey_> I'm sad about his stroke which left him wheelchair bound :(
<SuperMatt> well, I know the reference, but I've only seen it once, so I can't remember what comes next
<diplo> https://www.bas.ac.uk/jobs/vacancy/wintering-communication-manager/#jobskills
<diplo> Normally only a 4 month stint, debated doing this last year... 18 months maybe too long though :(
<diplo> Family-friendly policies
<diplo> Flexible working hours
<diplo> hahaha, not when you're in the Antartic :D
<zmoylan-pi> free ice for your parties
<m0nkey_> diddledan: that 'all RAID is software' tweet got me a few likes and followers :) lol
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> back to work for me
<m0nkey_> cya folks
<m0nkey_> also diddledan, disappointed you're not in #freenas :)
<bigcalm> Can't decide if I should run the landscape-client on my landscape server. Would it confuse matters and break?
<Seeker`> popey: you should watch it?
<Seeker`> -?
<amunizp> hi all I have LUKS disk encryption and get this every time: mapper/ubuntu(...) swap1 not ready wait or manual mount?
<amunizp> is it normal?
<amunizp> an update also said it ran out of space in /boot.  said to run apt-get clean but it did not do anything.
<daftykins> apt-get autoremove ; would kill any older kernels
<daftykins> confirm with "dpkg -l | grep linux-"
<daftykins> for encryption help you'd be better off asking in #ubuntu - one of the encryption experts is active in there
<daftykins> amunizp: ?
<amunizp> thanks!
<amunizp> daftykins your command seems to show I have more than 11. how many old kernels do I need?
<daftykins> the present running one and maybe one old one for backup cases
<amunizp> update went through for now but autoremove clearly din not delete any.
<daftykins> throw "dpkg -l | grep linux-" in a pastebin then ( http://paste.ubuntu.com )
<daftykins> or install 'pastebinit' and pipe that command into it
<amunizp> thanks daftykins I'll have to leave it for another day!
<daftykins> righty-o, 2 min job though
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-14
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/get_windows_10_business_pcs/ - nice
<mapps> what ya upto daftykins
<mapps> sunny in philly e2 for me:D
<daftykins> lul
<daftykins> about to call it a night
<mapps> sunny in philly and crim minds for me
<daftykins> do something productive :D
<daftykins> nn \o
<knightwise> morning peeps
<amunizp> morning.
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> bug #1310292 what a mess
<lubotu3> bug 1310292 in ruby2.0 (Ubuntu Utopic) "installing `ruby2.0` results in ruby 1.9.3-p484 as default version" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310292
<diplo> +All your bootstraps are belong to Chef
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<knightwise> Installing a Linux minimal install vm on my Surface pro 4,
<knightwise> feels like its gonna take off or something :)
<diplo> Oh dear :P not sure I have the patience for that :)
<foobarry> anyone used sidekiq?
<foobarry> sidekiq complaining about ruby 1.9 although 2.0 is the default
<diplo> foobarry: did you see the link MooDoo just posted, ref ruby2 / 1.9 ?
<foobarry> when?
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> sure it wasn't the bug i linked to? i worked around that one. but sidekiq thinks RUBY_VERSION < 2.0
<MooDoo> I posted a link?
<diplo> hahah, sorry world of my own :D :D :D
<diplo> Going back to sleep now
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Organise Your Home Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwIe_sjKeAY
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> i did play with sidekick back in the 80s.... :-)
<foobarry> how can i take snapshots in virtualbox?
<foobarry> Version 5.0.12 r104815
<SuperMatt> should just be doable
<foobarry> ah, need to open the console window things
<SuperMatt> I don't have vbox in front of me, so I can't tell you for sure
<foobarry> i was trying right mouse click on machine
<SuperMatt> aha
<foobarry> got it
<foobarry> there's also a snapshots tab in the corner
<foobarry> so ugly...
<foobarry> my colleauge has never heard of time bandits :-|
<SuperMatt> just use gnome-boxes
<foobarry> not on gnome
<foobarry> will have a lok though
<davmor2> foobarry: show them the wonders of it
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<zmoylan-pi> bright, sunny, flippin' freezing
<davmor2> foobarry: why screenshot just vbox when you can just screenshot the window :)
<foobarry> :-|
<Seeker`> :( Alan Rickman
<diddledan> Seeker`: :-o
<diddledan> this has been a bad week for celebs
<foobarry> did he die today?
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> news just breaking by the looks
<foobarry> same day as my dad
<foobarry> also my sons birthday :S
<popey> :(
<MooDoo> tis a crappy week
<foobarry> did anyone else die besides bowie?
<foobarry> (well known ppl)
<Myrtti> Lemmy's Funeral
<foobarry> ah ok
<MooDoo> so that's lemmy, bowie and rickman :(
<davmor2> one of the best bad guys ever :(
<davmor2> I'm gonna carve his heart out with a SPOON! why a spoon cousin.... Because it will hurt more!
<MooDoo> lol ha ha ha
<diddledan> http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2016/01/14/games-will-make-you-more-violent-comic/
<diddledan> am I the only person who removes google analytics query strings from the end of urls?
<popey> nope
<popey> i do too
<awilkins> I also do that
<popey> I also remove amazon tags :S
<awilkins> Because it's DULL you idiot... I'll   *hurt more*.
 * awilkins is fixing an Alan Rickman quote from a half hour ago  </raymondbabbit>
<MooDoo> awilkins: it'll ?
<MooDoo> http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160114142733 - ssh problems :)
 * awilkins just got embarrassed by evince
<awilkins> Damn thing pretends it's filling in PDF forms
<awilkins> Then you save them and post them on and they don't have any of your new stuff in them
<awilkins> I guess I should have known
<awilkins> It doesn't do annotations in a way that's compatible with Adobe Reader either
<diddledan> \o/
<awilkins> If you open them yourself - your edits are there
<awilkins> Just opened same file on Windows / Adobe Reader and, darn, it's not got my stuff in it.
<awilkins> Which is a shame because the guys I sent the form to also did that
<Azelphur> https://dpaste.de/mGLr This doesn't look good :(
<diddledan> Azelphur: talk with daftykins. if your disk isn't broken yet, a quick chat with him will result in the otherwise :-p
<Azelphur> haha
<Marian92_> Hello, can anyone help me? I need to repair my grub, and I'm stucked
<apt-get-moo> update-grub ?
<MooDoo> evening all
<diddledan> Guest69011: you lost your cow-powers
<zmoylan-pi> arrived lactate to the party? :-)
<diddledan> Guest51068: you still haven't regained your super cow powers
<zmoylan-pi> they'll just have to give it an udder try...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-15
<daftykins> Azelphur: did you check the SMART table on that disk? :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: NO, STAY AWAY FROM MY DRIVES
<Azelphur> daftykins: hehe, yea I had a look, but it doesn't seem so bad
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> fancy sharing a paste? :> smartctl -a /dev/sda naturally
<Azelphur> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14500056/ opinions?
<daftykins> oh SSD anyway
<daftykins> small EVO :(
 * diddledan EVO lves
<daftykins> well as long as you keep it backed up :D
<diddledan> I've got a 1TB EVO 840 and a 500GB EVO 850 :-p
<daftykins> Azelphur: looks like you're behind on the firmware
<Azelphur> diddledan: I've got 1TB EVO 850 and a 120GB 840 EVO
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I've never upgraded it
<daftykins> i'd be willing to bet that spot's charge dropped enough that it wasn't so easily readable, marking the disk as needing an fsck
<daftykins> ah well the 840 EVOs had an issue identified that means the latest firmware periodically rewrites given cells to prolong/boost their readability
<diddledan> yeah I upgraded the firmware on my 840
<Azelphur> guess I should too
<daftykins> that smartctl speaks of EXT0BB6Q whilst the site has EXT0DB6Q :>
<daftykins> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/downloads/software/Samsung_SSD_840_PRO_Series_DXM06B0Q_Win_Mac.iso
<Azelphur> is it easy to upgrade the FW on a Linux machine?
<diddledan> hmm
<diddledan> no idea
<daftykins> well that appears to be a bootable ISO
<daftykins> i was on - http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html
<m0nkey_> I see Tim will be going for his spacewalk tomorrow :)
<m0nkey_> Who'd ever think a Sussex born and bred lad would go up to the ISS.
<arsenip> hah
<arsenip> i met him once or twice ;d
<m0nkey_> I don't have that sort of claim, I'm just proud that somebody from Sussex is now floating around in space :)
<arsenip> well, i understan he was a good pilot, he was an apache test pilot on the base i was attached to.
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> fancy
<arsenip> i assume apache anyway, there were only two army guys, and i met both - and we only had apaches at the time i think.
<arsenip> anywho - pretty cool
<arsenip> portsmouth uni alumni too, daftykins ;)
<daftykins> that poor, poor...
<daftykins> i'm amazed that wasn't an instant disqualification ;)
<arsenip> hah.
<diddledan> it's crazy that 8GB of ram isn't enough to run OSX with a windows 10 VM
<daftykins> how is it not? that seems simple
<diddledan> because with a 2GB VM I run out of ram
<diddledan> i.e. my mac starts having issues with swapping and compressed ram
<diddledan> and the "memory pressure" graph goes right to the top
<daftykins> did you already have a tonne of junk running on the host?
<diddledan> well I use the host for things, yeah
<daftykins> not quite what i meant :P
<diddledan> shutting everything I'm working with down just because I need a windows utility seems a bit... counter producting
<diddledan> productive*
<diddledan> there's no point it being a VM in that case, I might as well dual boot
<daftykins> well it'd be pretty obvious based on use whether something is gonna work well or not isn't it
<daftykins> time for more RAM :)
<diddledan> yeah. more ram means new mac. these have the ram soldered on the board
<daftykins> ah, they're evil for that
<diddledan> I'm far too scared to consider resoldering! :-p
<daftykins> i wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't even an option
<daftykins> also what happened to that surface of yours? :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<bittin-> morning
<MooDoo> upgradin to 16.04 :D
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> bit early no?
<MooDoo> daftykins: yeah probably, but hay what the hell, i'm a nutter :D
<daftykins> proper temperature drop today
<knightwise> morning
<daftykins> sooo openssh to patch
<mapps> hi all
<MooDoo> howdy mapps
<davmor2> Morning all happy Friday
<MooDoo> anyone going for IRC council membership?
<zmoylan-pi> irc is organised?! :-P
<MooDoo> lol
 * davmor2 sees zmoylan-pi nick disappear in a puff of smoke
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: never insult our irc overlords, bow humbly and worship at the foot of the irc totem, then frolic and have fun on irc again :D
<popey> IRC RAGE LEVEL: â°â°â°â°â°â°â°â°â°â°â°â±â±â±â±â±â±â±â±â±
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: see how you anger the overlords worship I said worship damn you ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Hat Day! ð  ð©
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 JamesTait
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> popey: OMG it's over 9000 :)
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> o/
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> the evernote login page really annoys me
<foobarry> they never remember your settings and have these annoying people with gummy smiles
<davmor2> JamesTait: here is an odd one for your day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3l0kpl5tA4
<popey> foobarry, ditto
<JamesTait> davmor2, marks for originality.
<davmor2> JamesTait: trying for a nice tune with a hat that wasn't obvious :) That one sprang to mind :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think not playing anything by men without hats is a good bet too
<davmor2> JamesTait: that is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NytXT-U-tg
<davmor2> there is even
<foobarry> has anyone come across guix?
<foobarry> its an alternate package manager and software distribution that sits under its own tree
<foobarry> allegedly useful for providing up to date gnu binaries on centos
<foobarry> which are sometimes required to build stuff
<popey> yeah, vaguely
<popey> based on Nix isn't it?
<foobarry> i dunno. users are asking for it for hpc
<foobarry> a bit wary if they use guix tools as dependency for their tools, due to their continuous updating nature
<davmor2> foobarry: would likely cause a lot of system issues if they suddenly land gcc5 on a system built for 4.x too maybe
<foobarry> its all contained in one fieltree
<foobarry> and doesn't touch /usr/
<foobarry> however i'm rather wary of it all
<diplo> I'd be setting up a VM test and try it out myself
<foobarry> its rather a long term concern
<foobarry> and how users will depend on it
<foobarry> http://elephly.net/posts/2015-04-17-gnu-guix.html
<foobarry> this guy is for it
<foobarry> however his arguments for it seem also to be the arugments against it
<diplo> Is it defo needed though or a ncie to have I guess is the point you need to decide on
<foobarry> we provide updated versions of tools manually via modules commands
<foobarry> its kind of the devops side effect of users wanting more while bypassing the ops guys
<diplo> So a very very very quick overview, it basically lets users run new versions of stuff but not affect others
<diplo> Doing things like virtualenv etc
<foobarry> provides newest gnu packages that might not be in your distro
<foobarry> however we do a lot of that ourselves via modules
<diplo> It sounds to me like you're on your way to doing what is required, just need to keep on top of it for them and over what they need?
<foobarry> i think the solution probably lies in understanding their requirements better
<foobarry> what tools they claim to require
<diplo> yeah I was meant to put that at the end of my sentence :D
<foobarry> vagrant .deb is 70MB !!
<foobarry> what the heck is in there
<andylockran> hwody
<davmor2> andylockran: Hwody right back at ya :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: oi I'm the howdy man around here :p
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's fine I didn't steal your thunder I said Hwody not Howdy :P
<andylockran> davmor2: hows things?
<davmor2> andylockran: good thanks and for you?
<MooDoo> lol
<andylockran> yeah, I'm all super dooper.
<andylockran> Started a new job
<andylockran> got approached for web manager @ Canonical but it didn't get anywehere :(
<popey> :(
<foobarry> did they say why andylockran
<MooDoo> andylockran: what you doing now out of interest?
<andylockran> MooDoo: contracting: www.lockran.com
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> currently working in an innovation role
<foobarry> accidentally farted out loud in the office
<foobarry> thought it was gonna be quiet
<popey> cool story bro
<foobarry> you're welcome
<diddledan> foobarry: well done!
<foobarry> is the kindle fire stick basically a chromecast?
<foobarry> doesn't seem to have youtube on it though
<popey> yeah, can't play amazon video on chromecast, and can't play google stuff on amazon fire
<foobarry> sucks
<popey> mind you, my chromecast isn't needed much now i have a telly that has smarts
<foobarry> i am slowly converting all my dvds
<foobarry> my dvd shelf is really hard to access
<Laney> I prefer using the Chromecast over Samsung's shitty smart TV OS
<Laney> They keep forcing their partner apps onto it
<Laney> displacing the things I actually want to be easily accessible
<foobarry> i have Â£15 to spend on goog play
<foobarry> can't think of anything i want
<Myrtti> books
<Myrtti> lots of books
<Myrtti> that's where most of my goog money goes
<foobarry> i've been reading the same book for a while
<foobarry> bit of a long read, but a goody
<foobarry> enigma by hug sebag montefiore
<foobarry> the ultimate story of enigma and cool naval battles
<zmoylan-pi> try master and commander series. the author took all the engagements from naval records from napolean wars
<bigcalm> FreeSat box has a Netflix app. I hope it gets an Amazon Prime video app soon
<bigcalm> Now that I've been using Amazon Prime Video for a bit, I think that there was more available on  Netflix that interested me
<diplo> Just got Netflix myself today
<diplo> And national trust membership :)
<bigcalm> We have life time NT membership. Very worth while investment
<brobostigon> any insight, i own two openpgp smartcards, and when i try and sign something, it always ask for one specific card, and wont allow me to choose which it uses, any ideas why, please.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-16
<mapps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<svea> hejsan i need help. i would like to wget all files and folders from a diectory EXCEPT html and other webpage related bumph
<svea> wget -r siteaddressgoes here apparently this worked
<brobostigon> hi Myrtti
<brobostigon> sorry.
<Myrtti> hmmm?
<brobostigon> i wasnt concentrating and got the wrong person in the wrong channel, sorry.
<Azelphur> Hmm, I have a Â£10 gift card at Amazon and need to buy something cool. Wonder if anyone has any suggestions :P
<Myrtti> nessie ladle
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<penguin42> hey
<MooDoo> :)
 * zmoylan-1i gets ready for a bit of galaxy quest...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-17
 * MarkDude checked calendar, Wolverhamton chiding. https://twitter.com/TheCommunitizer/status/688553688856571905 Taking your Community to 11
<MarkDude> Its not just us Yanks that think Nigel sounds like Jono? (-:
<mapps> hi all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<mapps> hi all:D
<penguin42> hey mapps
<mapps> sup mate
<penguin42> not much
<penguin42> I'm fighting my phones kernel build
<pwaring> fun way to spend a sunday evening :)
<pwaring> (he says, battling with WordPress)
<popey> penguin42, OPO?
<penguin42> popey: Yeh
<penguin42> popey: They released a new set of kernel source which I've factored out so I can see the bits they changed - which is actually pretty small - and I've got it rebuilt, but the usb and wifi isn't working yet
<popey> aww
<penguin42> yeh the wifi isn't too much of a surprise since it looks like it was a module, but the usb - hmm that's a pain
<penguin42> probably a config option, or a mismerge or something
<zmoylan-pi> a proper old fashioned 9600baud serial cable will see you through... :-P
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: There doesn't seem to be a db25 anywhere
 * popey breaks out his RS232 cable
<zmoylan-pi> some disassembly may be required... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh I've added serial to a nook - but my soldering is pretty awful, and I really dont want to do that to my good phone
<zmoylan-pi> think of the geek cred when people see you've added a 25 serial connection to your phone :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: There used to be subminature db-9 that would actually fit
<penguin42> they were tiny
<zmoylan-pi> they made serial connections for some very weird small places as it was so handy...
<penguin42> yeh
<zmoylan-pi> these days i slum it by using the camera on devices to transfer data in qr codes when i can't get a connection... :-)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Well, seriously, serial over the LEDs to get stuff out would be nice, but I'm not sure if there's anything to do serial in over the camera; I've heard optical serial being done on meters and I think the little embedded devices (oh what was the name of that thing...)
 * zmoylan-pi really misses ir transfers on palm and psion...
<penguin42> hmm, I wonder if it has a separate sensor for backlight brightness
<diddledan> I found grey hairs today :-(
<diddledan> I guess I'm getting old...
<zmoylan-pi> the name moylan means son of the bald man, i'm just glad to find hair :-)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> I've been losing my fringe for some time, but greys are new to me
<diddledan> I was expecting to go bald before grey
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry... it's when the grey hairs in your ears and nose are more noticeable that you can start to worry... :-)
<diddledan> :-p
<mapps> man im tired
<mapps> got up early to go for brunch
<mapps> O_o
<mapps> got up early to go for brunch
<diddledan> got up twice? :-p
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> mownin
<svea> afternoon.
<svea> ok its eening here but its afternoon somewhere
<svea> evening***
<Myrtti> Universal Greeting Time
<diddledan> it's derived from caveman days when they'd just yell "ugt" at each other, and hence UGT (Universal Greeting Time) was born
 * diddledan stares at misogynistic terms in the eye
<diddledan> caveperson**
<mapps> morning
<popey> .oO( I should probably go to bed )
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> sleepy moo
<mapps> finished daddys home
<mapps> cool film
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-09
<zmoylan-pi> what's this button do? http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a24606/destroy-5-million-in-weapons/
<zmoylan-pi> it's good that terrible ui's aren't just in computers
<m0nkey_> I need this in my life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9GWteVUYD0
<knightwise> good morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
 * knightwise is listening to Lord Drachenbluts Eulogy show on Hpr
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> first shift today, 2pm-6pm, :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> How was everyones break?
<brobostigon> quiet.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Clean Off Your Desk Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> if i cleaned off my desk it would lose structural integrity! :-)
<SuperMat1> My desk is normally quite clean really
<SuperMat1> but I do hate the number of cables I have to have
<zmoylan-pi> people are looking for a good monitor that'll charge their macbook pros in other channels to try and thin out the cable mess
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> and like keyboards what is defined as a good monitor is very very subjective...
<ali1234> a monitor that charges your computer?
<zmoylan-pi> if it works on usb-c yes.  there are a few seemingly that do
<ali1234> crazy
<zmoylan-pi> but it can mean that when you plug your usb-c enabled device into 1 cable on your desk at home or work it adds 2 displays, network, keyboard and mouse and charges the bugger at the same time... which is nice
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure it's better than a docking station though... a good docking station mind, not a cheap horrible one
<popey> less space
<zmoylan-pi> which for some is the priority but i loved when i used a palm pda been able to drop it into a cradle with one hand and no fiddling with a connecting cable
<zmoylan-pi> and i've seen 1-2 docks you could do that with a laptop
<zmoylan-pi> drop in cradle, press the sync button and magic happened :-)
<diddledan> chocolate
<foobarry> like the magically chocolate biscuit machine in bagpuss?
<diddledan> anyone interested in lifetime access to sitepoint learning material? (normally ~$450, currently $49) http://www.appsumo.com/~UZA0d/
<diddledan> they focus on web stuff
<diddledan> going to see rogue one tonight
<SuperMatt> Probably the most brutal film I've seen
<davmor2> SuperMatt: p-l-ease! Brutal.  As in a brutal massacre of a franchise Hello H20 or Brutal as in violent I can name 50 worse :D
<SuperMatt> I'm not going to discuss it further becuz spoilers
<zmoylan-pi> the alien did it :-P
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> just spotted the convo above, i'd like a monitor with USB C for my Dell XPS13 so i could have single cable charging, connection, possibly USB ports too so a wireless receiver could be plugged in and even gigabit LAN so i could leave a cable plumbed in and have wired on the laptop - all on the one cable!
<daftykins> that's more doable with docks though, but sadly Dell's is still about Â£175
<zmoylan-pi> yeah a few people were talkings about dells docking thingy...
<daftykins> i'm sure Apple would find a way to stop it working properly
<zmoylan-pi> well i did see a story of someone who reported that their macbook kept trying to charge itself off a usb hard drive
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a lot will probably be down to iffy accessories and cable converters for now
<zmoylan-pi> someone was saying it's all based on a pyramid of trust with every device reporting itself correctly as to what it is and what it can do... this will fail when cheap chinese knockoffs appear in 18 months
<daftykins> well there've been tonnes of cables not to spec already so they're already there :>
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> wow. just. wow.
<diddledan> that was epic
<diddledan> I prefer that to the force awakens
<diddledan> I got a lil teary when carrie fisher appeared
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, I wasnt so keen on the new star wars from what I saw of it and thought the previous was better
<daftykins> i don't get why anyone is so fussed o0
<diddledan> daftykins: please hand-in your badge and your gun
<diddledan> :-p
 * daftykins does not like any of Star Wars
<SebthreeBQM10HD> indeed its rather hyped like Marvel
<diddledan> I find your lack of faith disturbing
<daftykins> this is seriously confusing, i have an 8 disk RAID6 on a 3ware controller with XFS under 14.04.5 server, it's only writing at 20MB/sec...
<m0nkey_> STAR TREK! FTW!
<daftykins> moreover, not every disk light flashes as it's writing
<m0nkey_> daftykins, you got a cache battery hooked up to it?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server3400/v4eyu8t/products/2187/images/3603/Loved_Him_Ladies_V-Neck_Close_UP__58268.1463517860.800.800.jpg?c=2
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> m0nkey_: nah
<daftykins> but these 3wares don't speed limit based on that automatically
<m0nkey_> does the card have any sort of write cache on it? because if it doesn't. it'll be slow.
<daftykins> yeah 256MB RAM onboard
<m0nkey_> hmm
 * diddledan cuts daftykins' power
<m0nkey_> that should be enough
<daftykins> it's on a UPS ;D
<diddledan> I still need to fix my ups
<daftykins> D:
<diddledan> it's dormant right now
<m0nkey_> Just replaced my UPS battery
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/kinlane/status/818585315195527168
<m0nkey_> i need to test the new battery in my ups
 * diddledan cuts m0nkey_'s power
<m0nkey_> no need. Hydro Quebec will do that for you
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> there's a little baby 500VA APC at my clients from many moons ago, i could try one of the batteries off amazon to get it going again
<m0nkey_> i need to recycle a Pb battery
<daftykins> same here, gonna ask the guy that helped hang the TV to take it down to the local recycling place
<diddledan> I hate peanut butter batteries
<daftykins> mixed with sausage, they're the wurst
<diddledan> bratwurst?
<daftykins> please sir, sausages have feelings too
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, they do in the sausage fest animtion
 * diddledan hopes shauno doesn't see this one: https://twitter.com/danielsing3r/status/818221826685812736
<m0nkey_> lol
<diddledan> I'm off to snooze. nn
<m0nkey_> lightweight
<daftykins> m0nkey_: congratulations, you're promoted to diddledan and diddledan is demoted to new-shauno
<m0nkey_> indeed
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9Apcy8GyIM Louis seems to be trolling his assistant tonight
<daftykins> he's reconnecting traces on a microSD card D:
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-10
<daftykins> found diddledan http://imgur.com/gallery/tHX9WZp
<zmoylan-pi> changing the name of yahoo... that'll fix things right up
<daftykins> no way?
<zmoylan-pi> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13360673
<zmoylan-1i> i always feel renaming the company is somehow pretending to not be the same organisation before in a deceptive manner... silly i know
<daftykins> wow
<knightwise> good morning
<knightwise> morning jodh
<jodh> knightwise: morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you doing today ?
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, alittle tired, but thats normal day after first shift in a new job.
<brobostigon> and you?
<knightwise> hooodd
<knightwise> Sorry , typo . I'm doing ok :) How did the first shift go ?
<foobarry> new job work stamina takes a while to build up
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Peculiar People Day! ð
<brobostigon> knightwise: it went well, thanks.
<brobostigon> foobarry: yes, very true,
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCoCNCJFS7A got you covered dude
<knightwise> brobostigon: whats the new job all about ?
<brobostigon> knightwise: shop floor and till in a toy shop.
<davmor2> brobostigon: say what now?  It's not the Lego Shop is it :)
<brobostigon> davmor2: if only, :)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/nicolabortignon/status/818761666083090432
<diddledan> wow, the C.H.I.P is a lot of computer for 9$
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FuDWQwA0dI
<diddledan> only 512MB ram though, but other than that it's comparable to the pi3
<TwistedLucidity> Fancied getting myself a pocketCHIP a whileback; never did.
<diddledan> ransoms being demanded for data in mongodb servers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38521973
<zmoylan-pi> see, if they had stored their data in csv files like nature intended... :-P
<diddledan> can anyone else currently play the mp3 version of latenightlinux? http://latenightlinux.com/
<diddledan> I'm getting network error
<popey> diddledan: you on telegram? they have a telegram channel
<diddledan> I'm not
 * diddledan goes to see what is required to sign-up
<popey> As if by magic
<JoeRess> Hello
 * popey pokes diddledan with JoeRess 
<diddledan> aha, hello JoeRess
<JoeRess> Hi
<JoeRess> Can you download it?
<diddledan> weirdly, I can if I get the url using curl first - but clicking the download link in chrome is failing
<JoeRess> http://latenightlinux.com/media/LNL01.mp3
<diddledan> I used `curl -I http://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/latenightlinux.com/media/LNL01.mp3HTTP` to get that url
<JoeRess> Does that work in Chrome?
<popey> it does here
<diddledan> yeah the direct link works, but for unknown reason the redirector/tracker link in chrome doesn't work
<diddledan> the tracker link in curl does work, though, which is confusing
<diddledan> hmm, I wonder if it's an IPv6 issue
 * diddledan checks
<diddledan> ok, it seems there might be an intermittent problem on podtrac's end - I just received HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
<JoeRess> It works in Chrome for me :/
<diddledan> that was using `curl -4 -I http://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/latenightlinux.com/media/LNL01.mp3HTTP`
<diddledan> oh, I borked the url
 * diddledan repastes
<diddledan> in chrome I'm getting redirected but then it fails with Failed - Network error when using the "download" link
<diddledan> aah. https
<diddledan> chrome thinks it should be downloading the mp3 via https
<JoeRess> Why would it think that?
<diddledan> ok, I figured it out
<diddledan> I have https-everywhere installed which is forcing the podtrac url to be loaded securely which then causes the returned direct url to also be https
<diddledan> using https for the podtrac url (https://podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/latenightlinux.com/media/LNL01.mp3) in curl returns: Location: https://latenightlinux.com/media/LNL01.mp3
<JoeRess> This means I will have to sort out let's encrypt. :(
<diddledan> :-(
 * diddledan hides
<diddledan> it's a bit odd that podtrac is redirecting to a url that you didn't configure it to use though
<diddledan> i.e. https rather than http when podtrac is loaded via ssl
<JoeRess> Podtrac has many failings
<JoeRess> Their servers run Windows for example
<diddledan> yeah I noticed the tell-tale Server: Microsoft-IIS/8.5 in curl response :-p
<diddledan> they're on amazon by the looks. so at least they have "cloud" checked-off the marketing checklist
<JoeRess> Their dev is usually fairly responsive on Twitter so we'll see what he says
<diddledan> ooh, I like these predictions
<diddledan> just got onto the worldwide internet outage
<diddledan> so we're considering all-out cyberwar at this point I guess?
<diddledan> oh god, sorry, I regret using the word cyber. because the cyber is so big now
<diddledan> telegram has a naughty picture on their homepage: https://telegram.org/img/tl_card_open.gif
<foobarry> from the bears perspective maybe
<SuperMatt> That's a very odd picture
<SuperMatt> But I like the graphical style
<diddledan> all their imagery is custom-designed by the looks
<diddledan> they all follow the same style
<popey> they walk close to the line a lot
<popey> they announced a new feature in telegram and used an image of a half naked women to promote it
<popey> that image then disappeared and a new one (of the same woman) appeared, with more clothing
<m0nkey_> wow. my switch under my desk just failed.
<foobarry> can i still use the apache "combined" format to log search engine request strings?
<foobarry> haven't done it for 10 years
<diddledan> foobarry: yes and no - if your site isn't running https then you'll not get any referrer info from the search engines because they _are_ running https so your browser doesn't send the previous page to protect privacy on non-secure connections
<foobarry> thanks diddledan thats a new thing since 2005 :P
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> yey. google rock. they've put a nice big red screen of phishing on an official government website I worked on
<diddledan> presumably because it isn't a .gov.uk domain
<SuperMatt> Well, were you phishing everyone that went there?
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they were phishing some other country... :-P
<SuperMatt> s/went/worked
<diddledan> no, there's no phishing involved
<SuperMatt> TBH, when I was at Rackspace I constantly had clients that were accused of phishing, but mostly because someone would exploit a vulnerability in a wordpress plugin to upload a naughty script or seven
<diddledan> I really do think tumbleweed is a bad name for opensuse's thingy
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it confused google as there were no adverts all over it? :-P
<SuperMatt> hurr
<SuperMatt> My number one tool was to run "find . -mtime -30"
<diddledan> "YEY, OpenSuse release a major new update... *tumbleweed*"
<SuperMatt> I would often find the newly uuploaded script in a few minutes
<diddledan> the site in question is running an entirely bespoke piece of software
<diddledan> so if it has been hacked then it would have to have been very targeted
<SuperMatt> fair enough
<m0nkey_> Last time I tried SuSE, I couldn't figure out how to install any packages.
<diddledan> yast
<SuperMatt> zypper
<SuperMatt> My big problem with Suse was that their equivalent of PPAs was nowhere near as good as ppas
<SuperMatt> and a lot of things just didn't exist in the main repos, so you hand to rely on their second class system
<m0nkey_> heh, and there was me trying to use yum, since it's rpm based. lol
<m0nkey_> shows you how long ago i used suse
 * diddledan watches the suse tumbleweed roll past the desolate abandoned town
<diddledan> see, totally a bad name
<m0nkey_> who actually uses suse these days?
<diddledan> opensuse, not sure, but I think businesses might use SLES still (mostly european companies 'cos american and elsewhere use RHEL)
<diddledan> I don't know whether anyone ever used SLED (the desktop equiv of SLES)
<SuperMatt> Some people rely on SLES for packaging Red Hat patches
<SuperMatt> I like yast in principle, but in the end I just think that Fedora is the most balanced distro between being bleeding edge and stable
<SuperMatt> Ubuntu lost its bleeding edge when it stopped tracking behind gnome
<jezster> Ubuntu seems fine for me, given that I'm just returning to Linux desktop use.
<SuperMatt> I've spent quite a few years jumping around, until I finally landed on Fedora. I think it has something to do with using it for my jobs in enterprise, making it the logical choice to stay abreast with changes
<jezster> I've recently been given a nice little X220 Lenovo and it's almost perfect for me use ... I have to wonder if Budgie will fix my last few issues.
<jezster> Fedora is excellent, but I guess I'm used to CrunchBang/Ubuntu/Debian/etc...
<SuperMatt> took me a little while to get used to Fedora, but now I have, it just seems the correct fit for me
<diddledan> SuperMatt: what's wayland like? :-D
<SuperMatt> It works
<diddledan> yey
<SuperMatt> If I didn't know they'd made the change, I wouldn't have guessed
<diddledan> gotta love when stuff works
<diddledan> nice
<SuperMatt> I haven't tried any xforwarding though
<diddledan> I suppose there's forwarding X from server to wayland client and vicky verky
<SuperMatt> I think there's something like that going on
<SuperMatt> but meh
<diddledan> would be interesting to see if there's a difference in behaviour depending on direction
<SuperMatt> Most of what I do requires a terminal, and no forwarding
<SuperMatt> anyway, it's home time
<SuperMatt> so peace out, yo
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> oh dear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38565913
<daftykins> no biggy, hideous device :)
<daftykins> oy at folk that don't read your emails properly and so reply with the wrong conclusion
<daftykins> must be that manx fella redtaperenegade i'm dealing with for my gas bills (since the parent company is up there these days) :D
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcP98zlwojE&t=0s
<daftykins> i think he worked out what it is from the story of it being stolen?
<MartijnVdS> Razer announced that it was indeed those prototypeds
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: sure you don't work at a gas company? ;)
<MartijnVdS> Oh you're not talking about the triple screened laptop anymore?
<daftykins> just getting at how you seem to pay as much attention as the bloke from the gas co. who read my first email
<marshmn> if I have both wired and WiFi networks connected, does Ubuntu only use the wired interface?
<popey> it uses whatever is default route
<popey> well, default with higest metric
<marshmn> hmm
<marshmn> so for mine it will be using WiFi I guess (has a metric of 600 compared to 100 for the wired)
<diddledan> anyone seen this thingy? https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation
<popey> s/highest/lowest/ I think.
<marshmn> ah
<daftykins> yeah low metric = priority interface
<marshmn> ok
<popey> i just tested this by running iperf -s on my server, and iperf -c on my laptop
<marshmn> how is the metric determined?
<daftykins> interface type
<marshmn> I see
<popey> there's rules
<marshmn> OK, so it will prioritize wired - which sounds good...
<marshmn> thanks :-)
<popey> np
<daftykins> ideally though you just wouldn't run both
<marshmn> ok - why is it bad?
<daftykins> no idea if it'd switch if you had some transfers / communications in process
<popey> depends on the app
<popey> mosh does
<marshmn> I see
<daftykins> e.g. browsing online, streaming something, then plug in your cable
<popey> i frequently switch during the day between wifi and both
<popey> not sure if I ever have stuff streaming tho
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23777617/ too many interfaces :)
<daftykins> yeah that's why i added that caveat
<marshmn> is it possible to control the volume from Ubuntu when the audio is connected through HDMI?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<daftykins> if it's stereo, sure
<marshmn> OK
<daftykins> Mr.Kipling prices have gone up!? :(
<zmoylan-pi> well... until they can source a local source for pineapples and other ingredients...
<zmoylan-pi> japanese amateurs are going to try and launch a nano sat in a few mins... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ouemR6bbk
<zmoylan-pi> looks like it's been scrubbed... :-(
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjop01FGrA yay Louis
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-11
<tom__> hello
<zmoylan-pi> zoooooom........
<daftykins> zippity zooooooom
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> Today is another day working from home
<SuperMatt> I've already spent some time cuddling the cat
<davmor2> SuperMatt: is that SuperCatt?
<SuperMatt> No, he's a rescue called Tiger
<SuperMatt> He was taken away from his owners because they over fed him a little... http://i.imgur.com/OGN4dqI.jpg
<SuperMatt> The left side is when he was 13kg! And the right is him now at 6
<davmor2> SuperMatt: That is one fat cat, glad you got his weight down :) He looks lovely
<SuperMatt> It wasn't us, it was the fosterers that did it, but we're grateful for their work
<SuperMatt> we just keep his weight down
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Learn Your Name In Morse Code Day! ð  .___ ._ __ . ...
<SuperMatt> -- .- - - .... . .--
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okafNPLStwU got to be this
<diddledan> cookies law might be changing. less intrusive "we set cookies. click this button nau. have you clicked yet? click it so we can set cookies, else we'll set a cookie to say you didn't click it."
<zmoylan-pi> it's brexit... the uk can't afford the cookies anymore... :-)
<diddledan> we prefer biscuits anyway
<zmoylan-pi> them neither...
<diddledan> m00
<SuperMatt> b44
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/ekiledjian/status/819188267442696193
<diddledan> I've decided I'm getting older. woke up today with a muscular bad shoulder
<SuperMatt> I had a hangover after only three pints the other day, that's how I know I'm getting old
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you sank my battle ship
<SuperMatt> I did? I wasn't even trying
<knightwise> evenin everyone
<davmor2> knightwise: how do?
<knightwise> doin ok, reinstalling friends android phone
<JoeRess> diddledan: that https issue with Podtrac should now be solved. It seems I needed to add www to the link.
<daftykins> interesting, gigabyte are doing a 10GbE NIC
<daftykins> even 2 or 5Gb cards would be a nice change :) HD content takes forever to throw around
<diddledan> daftykins: and then you plug it into an ADSL connection
<daftykins> diddledan: err, NICs aren't about your net connection
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's a joke about the people who spend silly money on network and then connect it to the 9600 baud modem they've had for years...
<daftykins> i suppose that would work if said modem had a LAN port ;D
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen some wacky modems out there... :-)
<daftykins> yay at all the disks in this file server coming up in sequence on the RAID card now :> couldn't be dealing with 0,1,2,3,4,7,5,6
<daftykins> not bad for just grabbing them off a shelf
<m0nkey_> http://i.imgur.com/cvgWo5E.jpg
<daftykins> make it sew!
<diddledan> m0nkey_: *stolen and facebooked*
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-12
<m0nkey_> Anyone here watch Better Call Saul?
<m0nkey_> It seems a character from Breaking Bad will be joining the cast.
<daftykins> i do!
<daftykins> o rly
<m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3WzxpdUc0&feature=youtu.be
<daftykins> 8D
<m0nkey_> Seems Gus is back :)
<daftykins> you just can't keep a bad guy down
<m0nkey_> But look at the background around 14 seconds
<daftykins> 14? that has the two guys in the kitchen, one in the foreground with his arms folded
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> the guy in the background
<m0nkey_> bald head, beard
<m0nkey_> Heisenberg :)
<daftykins> noooo
<daftykins> too young
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<davmor2> Morning all
<SuperMatt> I trust everyone here is well?
<popey> waiting for snow
<brobostigon> hopefully it will snow and or rain while i am work, so i dont get wet.
<SuperMatt> Any sign of snow in London, and I'll be straight on the tube home, otherwise I'll never make it back to my bed this evening!
<SuperMatt> And with that, the london overground service just reported severe delays
<davmor2> SuperMatt: no snow in Wolves as of yet
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Poetry At Work Day! ð
<SuperMatt> roses are red, violets are blue, OSX sucks, at least let me use ubuntu
<SuperMatt> I THANK YOU
<davmor2> Oh god SuperMatt thinks he is Dave Gorman ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMWGXt979yg I think the opening covers us but then there is this too which is Poetry at work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JJH7ZL_Fk
<SuperMatt> davmor2:
<SuperMatt> :D
<DJones> Does anybody have any suggestions on how to diagnose/fix a laptop charging problem.  I've got an Asus A52F laptop which runs fine on mains supply, but the battery light was flashing red and not charging, replaced the battery and seemed ok, still a red battery light, and when booted into windows 10 or Ubuntu 16.04 shows 0% charging, but it never takes any charge.  If left switched off, its still got a red light and still doesn't charge. The ...
<DJones> ... battery was replaced with new manufacturer one, but that has the same issues. In Windows, I've deleted the ACPI battery driver and let that reinstall without any success
<foobarry> what if the battery is removed?
<foobarry> and left out?
<DJones> Works fine on mains no matter what
<davmor2> DJones: new laptop?
<DJones> davmor2: No, its about 5 years old
<davmor2> DJones: okay so not something that would be fixed by a bios update then so I can only assume a dead circuit board somewhere
<DJones> Its had a replacement power brick about 2 years ago which doesn't seem to have any issues/frayed cables etc
<DJones> That was the thought I'd had about a motherboard fault
<davmor2> DJones: no in the laptop there might be a small power board that is fired
<DJones> The battery gets detected ok in both windows & ubuntu
<DJones> AH right, might open it up to have a look to see if there's anything obvious then
<davmor2> DJones: yeah the battery gets hot under charge so 5 years of that and it might just of unsoldered a capacitor or something just follow the path from the power in to the battery
<DJones> Cheers, will see what I can find
<Shaggy_> does anyone here use mint?
<SuperMatt> I gave up on it a long time agao
<DJones> Shaggy_: You might better using the #linuxmint-help on  irc.spotchat.org
<DJones> Seems like that is the main support channel for mint
<Shaggy_> I cant thats why im here i got z-lined for some unknown reason
<Shaggy_> said I was ban evading
<Shaggy_> just wanted someone to ask what happened
<Shaggy_> ive emailed them but that could take days
<SuperMatt> well we're not going to know anything about that here
<Shaggy_> while im here I might aswell ask what the latest version of xubuntu is
<Shaggy_> could do with a new install
<Shaggy_> ahh06.04
<diddledan> omg it's snowing
<Laney> rather it didn't
 * Laney would quite like to cycle to town in 2 hours :-)
<Laney> without falling off or getting frozen toes
<popey> diddledan: whereabouts?
<diddledan> Basingstoke
<popey> just rain here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIkddwEk5_U
<foobarry> got pulled by the police :(
<popey> Alright Mr Mansell
<foobarry> brake lights were'nt working (top one was), side ones weren't
<popey> oops
<foobarry> just pulled off the M1 after a long journey, 200 yds from hotel room
<popey> i once stopped a police car because his brake lights weren't working :)
<popey> He wasn't impressed :)
<foobarry> got it fixed today, but then the guy told me he wasn't an MOT test station so i need to take it to a test station and ask them to stamp the form
<foobarry> pc plod was telling me he checks his brake lights once a week in his garage
<foobarry> "i live i london , i don't have a garage, only the reflections on other parked cars" i said with my inside voice
<popey> "and I have no friends who could stand behind the car"
<foobarry> and "i take the train to work and only use the car once a week to drive 1 mile"
<foobarry> and "i though t it was working before the journey"
<popey> i have spare lamps in my boot :)
<popey> "oh, I'll fix that right now" :)
<popey> (they came with the car)
<popey> I'm not that good.
<diplo> I always keep spare bulbs in the car, ever since having to travel to france
<diplo> Just replace them when I use them
<diddledan> there was something that the EU mandated for the continent that you had to have at least one of them in your car and you can only use them once so to be sure of always remaining compliant you had to have at least two of them so you still had one once you'd used one
<diddledan> I can't remember what it was though. maybe breathaliser?
<popey> yes
<popey> france
<Seeker`> diddledan: why do you have snow in basingstoke? Haven't got any here yet :(
<diddledan> Seeker`: because Basingstoke is Amazingstoke
<Seeker`> pfft
<Seeker`> Boringstoke more like
<popey> Basingrad.
<Seeker`> Also, to make people feel old, I've been here for over 10 years now.
<diddledan> didn't you need to pee?
<Seeker`> I don't actually know who was here when I joined actually, other than popey
<diddledan> I have no idea how long I've been around - I came and went and came back again
<popey> gary was here before me i think
<popey> 16:32 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Information on popey (account popey):
<popey> 16:32 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Apr 09 12:34:28 2004 (12y 40w 1d ago)
<popey> around then, sometime
<popey> actually, i have a mirror of the irc logs
 * popey greps
<diddledan> mine says: Registered : Feb 09 17:16:33 2007 (9y 48w 3d ago)
<Seeker`> I think gary, daviey, X.3N, ubottu and Myrtt.i were here
<diddledan> I started using Ubuntu around 2006
<popey> yeah
<diddledan> I remember installing 6.06
<diddledan> I was a leet gentoo user before that :-p
<Seeker`> 5.10 was my first ubuntu, joined here in Nov 2006
<popey> :)
<Seeker`> FC2/3 before that
<diplo> I was playing with 4.10 ? had it on a work machine, using some 3rd party app to auth with AD, can't remember its name
<diplo> Mine was Redhat and AIX previous to that
<diddledan> diplo: likewise?
<diddledan> likewise-open
<popey> Seeker`: you joined the launchpad team 2006-11-28
<popey> ooh, AIX
<diplo> That sounds about right diddledan
<diplo> Yes AIX :(
<diplo> How I got into *nix
<Seeker`> -16:36:38- -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Registered : Nov 20 23:44:23 2006 (10y 7w 6d ago)
<Seeker`> I was here for a few days before I registered
 * diplo still has all the manuals, only recently just scrapped the IBM M80 box we had running it
<diplo> Registered : Sep 18 08:50:32 2005 (11y  17w 0d ago)
<diplo> I was a quakenet person before that though
<popey> time flies :)
<diplo> I'm teaching myself windows now as well, just setup an AD / dns / file server and a couple of linux boxes and see if I can interact between the lot
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Question Time should be good tonight
<m0nkey_> Hmm
<m0nkey_> Spending cash now
<daftykins> o hai
<daftykins> you are? what on :D
<m0nkey_> $3200 flights to England for 2xAdult 2xChildren
<m0nkey_> And I'm looking at car hire
<daftykins> oof!
<daftykins> makes you want to put a kid in a suitcase, i bet
<m0nkey_> Hertz have a car for two weeks, $429.
<m0nkey_> daftykins, that's cheap.
<m0nkey_> Most carriers don't charge less than $4k
<m0nkey_> I want to get an Auto transmission, so the wife can drive, but it's a $200 premium.
<m0nkey_> Thankfully I can drive manual :)
<daftykins> i'm still chasing Air Canada about getting â¬600 back for free since i was on a flight with them that was massively delayed due to a technical fault
<daftykins> :> but you'll be on the other side!
<m0nkey_> How massively delayed?
<m0nkey_> Just got confirmation from the wife, she wants me to book the flight.
<daftykins> 6hrs at the ultimate destination
<daftykins> EU law has it count to be worthy of a refund
<daftykins> well, that value reimbursement
<daftykins> diddledan: emergency kitten! https://www.dropbox.com/s/z42y2hyp4j3vptx/IMG_20170112_173438.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> aww <3
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2trie6xqy9awtme/IMG_20170112_172414.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> squee
<m0nkey_> Sold
<m0nkey_> Flights & car are booked
<daftykins> \o/
<m0nkey_> The car booking said they would only take a deposit. Seems they took the full amount :/
<m0nkey_> Oh well
<m0nkey_> Anyway, got to go, dinner then gym.
<daftykins> \o
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-13
<diddledan> tinder gets too intrusive: https://twitter.com/edenthecat/status/819597750639673344
<zmoylan-pi> at least it wasn't asking what make model keyboard they use... that would be too personal a question...
<daftykins> nothing like text delivered as images
<zmoylan-pi> the limitation of twitters 140 limits...
<zmoylan-pi> i just hope the usa military makes the launch codes 141+ characters by next week...
<diddledan> lol, that would be funny
<SuperMatt> did we all chortle at Guilliani's poor cyber security? He's apparently Trump's cymber security guru
<SuperMatt> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/13/giuliani_joomla_outdated_site/ for reference
<SuperMatt> ââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ
<SuperMatt> uuhhhh
<SuperMatt> don't know where that came from
<davmor2> Morning all we can haz snow
<diplo> Morning! Ours lasted 2 mins and then just froze, now nothing :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday (what, already?), and happy Make Your Dream Come True Day! ð
<foobarry> quiet today
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6HFTm7lbQ
<foobarry> my 3yr old child has just used the most beautiful language ever to describe a poo
<foobarry> "it dived into my wee like a dolphin"
<zmoylan-pi> ^this is what sleep deprivation does to you...
<zmoylan-pi> :-)
<diddledan> talk about tempting fate: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/819904788192231424
<davmor2> diddledan: hahahahaha I love that it got to hel :)
<diddledan> I missed that bit
<diddledan> haha
<davmor2> diddledan: if it had of been heading for Heaven it would of course crashed and burned
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> i hope their duty free stocked up on rabbits feet, 4 leaf clovers and mini bibles...
<KingsQuest> netinstall lubuntu 16.04 LTS and it will be Amiga 4.01 without updates including the kernel on UK servers only Africa must use netinstall. on their servers 800 days.
<SuperMatt> o/~ it's the end of the week as we know it, and I feel fine
<popey> \o/
<popey> FFFFFFRIDAY!
<SuperMatt> I take it you're an REM fan?
<popey> not so much a fan
<popey> more a fan of fridays
<SuperMatt> Oh well that's the important bit
<davmor2> popey: Who isn't
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/githubstatus/status/819940738452615168
<diddledan> who broke it?
<davmor2> diddledan: most likely me I break everything it's my job :)
<diddledan> https://status.github.com/ shows they lost every app server
<Laney> davmor2 broke my soul a long time ago
<popey> )
<popey> MY EYES!
<popey> :)
<popey> ah, there they are
<davmor2> Laney: I just do my job that well ;)  Besides that was easy willcooke was the really challenge everything is like water off a ducks back to him :D
 * Seeker` panics
<diddledan> Seeker`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgonBt1oa9Y
<diddledan> super mario run's onboarding experience dissected: http://www.useronboard.com/how-supermariorun-onboards-new-users/
<daftykins> if anyone ever buys from these guys, beware they send you your password by email in plaintext - https://www.smartbuyglasses.co.uk/
<daftykins> hmm wasn't there a site for naming and shaming these instances...
<daftykins> plaintextoffenders.com :D
<diddledan> "toll free" phone? in the UK? don't they mean freefone?
<diddledan> and the number doesn't begin with an 0
<daftykins> nah i had some fun dialling it just now
<daftykins> my mobile said no, had to use skype
<popey> diddledan: that presentation is hilarious
<popey> slide 56-58 are funny
<diddledan> how does the divX company still exisst?
<daftykins> it does? D:
<daftykins> i'd guess licensing but who would possibly want anything they have...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: might have a job for you, a guy in another channel has someone's lotus 123 db that's corrupted itself :D
<diddledan> lotus is still a thing, too?!
<daftykins> just a silly no-backups client of his i think :>
<daftykins> ('his' being the other channel fella)
<diddledan> this looks freaky: the whispers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r9glhaxaL0
<zmoylan-pi> probably some accountant who just got set in their way of lotuses macros probably...
<zmoylan-pi> ...and my spreadsheet is as easy as... not lotus :-P
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> ugh in a right bind with a clients machine, he was sold Office 2013 by some local guy but never supplied a product key etc... so i can't do much about reinstalling
<daftykins> as of 2010 or 2013 they don't put keys in the registry anymore
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: we had that on an AMSTRAD PC1512 system (MSDOS 3.2 and an 86 processor (not even a 186 or 286!)
<diddledan> daftykins: ergh that's sucky
<zmoylan-pi> i see it as my job to make the nsa have to keep developers around to decode ancient obscure formats...
<zmoylan-pi> and using base 9 for my maths is just my irish way of splitting the difference between base 8 and base 10 and using a system that annoys everyone :-D
<daftykins> we emailed the other guy and he said he'd look, but he's not lifted a finger i bet
<diddledan> wow, langurs being sad: https://www.facebook.com/BBCOne/videos/1411713292195556/
<daftykins> damn humans messing with their feels!
 * diddledan hugs
<daftykins> diddledan: hold me!
<diddledan> pervert
<daftykins> :<
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> have i mentioned despising machines with HDDs?
 * diddledan giggles like the schoolgirl he dreams he was
<daftykins> uuuugh everything is so slow
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> I can't do HDD anymore except in my NAS
<daftykins> indeedy, i've got an SSD ready to go for this machine but the office license problem is a massive brick wall
 * davmor2 pats his 1TB hdd in his work horse laptop and tells it not to listen
<daftykins> rise of the big phones at Dell - http://i.dell.com/sites/imagecontent/shared-content/campaigns/en/PublishingImages/outlet-uk-images/547-phone-queue-promo-splitter-925x200-uk.jpg
 * zmoylan-pi loves a good spinning hard drive... :-)
<daftykins> they're all rubbish!
<diddledan> wow that's huge!
<diddledan> it's like he's compensating for something.
<diddledan> perhaps he has small hands
<daftykins> small HDDs
<davmor2> no the guys just has a really small head and hands
<zmoylan-pi> 1tb of cat videos for the zombie apocalypse... he'll be fighting off rampaging gangs of nerds wanting videos and charges for their phones...
<diddledan> apparently ginger beards on dark-haired folk isn't a sign of infidelity in the family: http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/why-do-so-many-guys-have-ginger-beards/
<knightwise> Afternoon folks :)
<daftykins> \o
<davmor2> diddledan: genetic throw back to the viking invaders
<zmoylan-pi> ginger feckers...
<diddledan> Today I learned: https://twitter.com/diddledan/status/820023617975107585
 * daftykins spots the URL
<daftykins> that must've been future diddledan if he taught you something!
<diddledan> oh God, I've upset an earthling. they're an angryearthling
<daftykins> o0
 * zmoylan-pi whistles nonchantly and twiddles thumbs...
<diddledan> which one of you is it?!
<diddledan> hehe
<diddledan> alright, so you're nonchalant. quit rubbing our noses in it already!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoiu8_K-eZg
 * diddledan spots the earthling has left a map in the form of Latitude and Longitude coordinates.
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> you're talking in code, chief
<diddledan> blame the angry earthling!
<zmoylan-pi> beep beep beep boop beep beeply de beep
<zmoylan-pi> ...or don't you like my tone? :-P
<diddledan> a bit flat
<Azelphur> So...I'm trying out Ubuntu 16.10 and it's...terrible? I'm trying to install packages from the software center but it requires an account now (wtf?) and it keeps saying incorrect username or password, despite the fact that the credentials are definitely correct, and both me and my girlfriend have reset the credentials to ensure that they are correct.
<Azelphur> Any ideas? or is the OS now a beached whale o.O
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, if the software is a snap it wants an account... try apt-get at commandline instead
<daftykins> or even apt :D
<zmoylan-pi> had that with vlc... i rate problems as the number of new swear words i invent and that was a 2 profanity problem :-)
<daftykins> Azelphur: so this was a nasty upgrade? :>
<Azelphur> yea, guess I have to
<Azelphur> nope, brand new fresh 16.10 install
<Azelphur> gf wanted to dual boot so she could have a nice secure OS to do shopping and things on, figured Ubuntu would probably be a better choice than Arch
<Azelphur> but dang, requiring login to install packages...things got bad D:
<zmoylan-pi> i have os/2 on floppy here... if that helps... :-P
<daftykins> bit paranoid not to just keep a hygienic system and use private browsing mode
<zmoylan-pi> and i believe there was a release of new version for amigas in last few weeks... :-D
<Azelphur> daftykins, heh, it was her decision but I do think it's nice and safer to just use Linux for things like that
<daftykins> depends on the user
<Azelphur> She has windows for her games
<Azelphur> suppose, but a little security never hurt anyone
<Azelphur> :)
<daftykins> dualboot is ridiculous for that, mate
<zmoylan-pi> evil doers know that attacking a linux user will just make the linux track them down and explain to them in full boring detail why their nefarious plan didn't work :-P
<daftykins> two things to keep up to date :>
<zmoylan-pi> windows vista had uac... that was a little security that annoyed the hell out of everyone...
<daftykins> i think it was a good idea, frustrating implementation for those that were used to the old way, sure, but well intentioned :)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> I think this bug might be down to the length of her email address, she uses her full name as an email address, and it's long
<Azelphur> so I bet the registration form accepted it, while perhaps the API that the software store client uses doesn't
<Azelphur> silly bug
<daftykins> so the problem came up first, then you made your own account to try and that one couldn't install apps either?
<daftykins> s/apps/packages/
<zmoylan-pi> i've always resisted using any part of my name in my email addresses as it eliminates a lot of spam effort when they can't get any part of your name into the actual text of the email
<daftykins> you mean you're not called Zebede Moylan? D:
<Azelphur> daftykins, no, the problem came up and I haven't created another account to test the theory, I'm just betting that's what it is :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: ah ok
<zmoylan-pi> bludgeondumbusers@company.com :-P
<daftykins> would've thought that was port of call #1!
<Azelphur> I just mostly was shocked that it requires an account to install things, and that the account system is broke
<zmoylan-pi> it really irked me too
<Azelphur> things, they went downhill :<
<daftykins> standard experience to my mind XD
 * daftykins sticks to CLI package management
<zmoylan-pi> ^proper
<zmoylan-pi> none of this namby pamby wishy washy fluffy hand holding gui silliness..
<diddledan> I really hate that every email with a link in it these days has the url of that link hidden and replaced with an obfuscated one in the effort to track the number of clicks
<zmoylan-pi> seconded
<diddledan> I'd be far more likely to click links if I knew where they were gonna take me
<zmoylan-pi> i open a lot of them in lynx just to annoy their database stats
<diddledan> so they've lost my click in the attempt to find out whether I clicked it or not
<Azelphur> actually seems like it's just broken
<Azelphur> I signed up for a 2nd account and it's still doing it
<diddledan> you didn't already have a launchpad account?
<Azelphur> I think I do from a while ago, I just created another account with a throwaway email and it still says incorrect user/pass when I try and install a package
<daftykins> does it not need confirming or something first?
<diddledan> did you verify the email address?
<diddledan> what daftykins said ^^
<daftykins> meanwhile on a clients' Windows 10 machine i just updated Apple's software updater, so i could update Apple's software updater, so i could update iTunes
<daftykins> and yeah, i've told you guys about that glorious one before :D
<Azelphur> yea, verified my email address
<diddledan> daftykins: ouch
<Azelphur> I even copy pasted everything just to be sure, throughout the whole process
<Azelphur> so yea, it's broken
<zmoylan-pi> i think my what the hell are they thinking moment was when i wanted to install a few maps on an old nokia phone.  it wants software downloaded. 50mb. the software wanted dot net. 150mb. they both wanted patches. another 100mb a few reboots and then install <20mb of maps
<zmoylan-pi> this was pre broadband so the isdn really hummed that day... :-)
<diddledan> hehe
<Azelphur> aha, it is broke https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1616943 \o/
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1616943 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Yakkety) "Can't auth against U1 in g-s" [Critical,Fix released]
<daftykins> i remember phoning one of the lads that had the dual channel ISDN locally, that sounded all weird
<daftykins> i never laughed so hard when i heard they'd have to be converted back to analog lines to get ADSL
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, that was fun explaining to folk who had waited for ages for isdn to be installed to then have to wait for copper to be reconnected...
<diddledan> yeah, I was very lucky that I didn't jump on BT "Home Highway" which was ISDN for non-businesses
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I really wanted to do Home Highway, too
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland the major telco simply called isdn broadband and sold it for 1-2 years with a straight face...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: 128Kbps _was_ broadband when you compare it to 33.6Kbps max modem speed (later 56 that never got to 56 in practice)
<zmoylan-pi> in it's defence it connected super quick and the transfer speeds were rock solid if slow so no slowing down at 1800 when every analog modem in the country connected to internet
<diddledan> I think my 56Kflex modem synced to freeserve at 42Kpbs
<zmoylan-pi> my brother was in the boonies and he shared 1 copper line with his neighbour on a dax unit so never got above 28000
<daftykins> i'm sure i saw north of 46Kbps
<diddledan> yeah but you're on a teeny island
<daftykins> there was a weird time when i downloaded a DivX of something from someone and no word of a lie, it came over at 7KB/sec for one night only, on good ol' AOL
<diddledan> and I only spotted today that DivX still exists as a company
<daftykins> ikr! so apt
<diddledan> so apt-get
<daftykins> you don't need the -get anymore :P
<diddledan> or dpkg -i
<zmoylan-pi> there could be weird moments when the wind was blowing in right direction and under a full moon when both modems were 100% and the data could be compressed in hardware and you saw high speeds for transfers
<zmoylan-pi> i often had to coax 2 9600 modems to eek the last few bytes of speed to make updates transfer a little faster around ireland on wonky phone lines
<daftykins> oh i got an iPod classic to take apart and put a new battery in today btw, that'll be some fun surgery
<zmoylan-pi> had one of those.  great fun.  kept me sane in hospital when i could have a few seasons of ds9 to keep me amused in hospital
<daftykins> :> i see some guy online has modded one with a 1TB SSD
<zmoylan-pi> if apple sold them now with a 1tb ssd they would sell
<daftykins> they're even hiding the iPod section on their site now
<zmoylan-pi> they'll be hiding their laptop/desktop section next
<Azelphur> confirmed, it is a bug, after dropping to the command line, apt upgrading, and rebooting, it now works and allows us to login
<daftykins> had a feeling that would be the case, i nearly asked whether ubuntu was installed with updates during install or nay
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-14
<daftykins> http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-crystal-maze-is-returning-with-richard-ayoade-as-host-2017-1
<daftykins> oh. my. Tux.
<zmoylan-pi> now if he does it as the character moss from the i.t. crowd...
<zmoylan-pi> maybe even throw in more street countdown... :-D
<daftykins> missed that one
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> meep
<RenterHEX> hi
<Seeker`> Spacex launch in < 1 hour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WimRhydggo
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-15
<m0nkey_> Went to my first Hockey game tonight :) So much fun!
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> that's been a while you've been there without having had your initiation!
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> We had front row seats
<daftykins> crikey
<m0nkey_> I watched the highlights on-line when I got back, I can see myself :D
<daftykins> i had pretty good seats at the baseball when i went back in Sept :>
<m0nkey_> 3 goals in 62 seconds in the 3rd period.
<daftykins> hahaha
<m0nkey_> Making a score of MTL 5, NYR 4.
<daftykins> i know a guy who works doing sport video editing, could probably get a good source clip
<m0nkey_> If you find a clip, I was front row, just left of the right side goal, right behind the 'Pizza Pizza' advertising.
<daftykins> the guys a big fan and always links to stuff, i find it impossible to follow or even understand where the puck is :>
<m0nkey_> I've tried watching it on TV, I found it boring. Actually going there, watching it, having the mascot steal my popcorn, so much fun!
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> what a dick!
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> He gave it back
<daftykins> going to baseball isn't even about watching the game so much :>
<m0nkey_> I went to a baseball game. Way to slow for me
<daftykins> me and a mate were off in the stands buying foot long hot dogs and heading up to the ale bar
<m0nkey_> I had the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th stretch.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> 0/
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> Anybody here installed Google Earth successfully on 16.04?
<SuperEngineer> A person I've recently "converted" to 16.04 from windows was having trouble launching it.
<SuperEngineer> I used a suggested a method from askubuntu and, for me, it worked just fine.
<SuperEngineer> Q/  would Google Earth have worked if I didn't have Wine pre-installed, I wonder... should I advise the convert "install Wine"?
<brobostigon> last time i tried to install google earth, there was a native version, no wine required, so probably a while ago now.
<SuperEngineer> Thanks brobostigon - The  "no wine required" is good news as this askubuntu answer is a script which downloads & install a .deb of GE
<brobostigon> ah, :)
<SuperEngineer> [& then does a chmod - but a safe one]
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<brobostigon> +x or something like that.
<SuperEngineer> Exactly!  "chmod +x google-earth.sh"
 * brobostigon grins.
<brobostigon> MR grinalot.
<SuperEngineer> & I can now hope for a quieter inbox ;-)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> hopefully the weather will calm down, i hoping to give my local a visit this afternoon.
<SuperEngineer> calming down here - hopefully your's will do so in time
<brobostigon> fingers crossed.
<Kovalsky> Afternoon.
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQUlJLjGl9U - the game "Portal" for the Apple II :)
<zmoylan-pi> once you've fired up doom on a zx spectrum you've seen it all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7cFGneuaw
<m0nkey_> No way!
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-08
<diddledan> the sega mega drive story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJClCqwkjgo
<diddledan> nostalgianerd is epic
<Seeker`> http://www.spacex.com/webcast launch in 90 seconds
<m0nkey_> Youtube link for the lazy :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PWu3BRxn60
<diddledan> nailed it
<diddledan> bang in the middle of the target!
<diddledan> they're getting crazy good at that
<m0nkey_> I hate to say it, but SpaceX launches have gotten boring.
<m0nkey_> And that's a good thing!
<m0nkey_> I'm super excited for the F9 Heavy launch
<diddledan> when's that one going off?
<m0nkey_> Maybe later this month or early next
<m0nkey_> Gotta love youtube, set a reminder. Never got a reminder.
<Seeker`> you did, I reminded you.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning
<diplo> How are things brobostigon ? Not been active here in a few weeks myself
<brobostigon> diplo: good life changing things, and you?
<diplo> Plodding along really, not great not bad :)
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> hi
<foobarry> are all snaps available for 14.04 or just specific ones?
<diplo> I'm under the impression that these things should work on all supported platforms, but I guess that is down to developers ?
<diplo>  Snapscraft forums maybe or the snapcraft channel
<ChunkzZ> anyone know where I can buy some BTC so I can send it to pay someone with BTC?
<m0nkey_> ChunkzZ: What type of coin and  how much? BTC transactions are expensive right now. Looking at $20USD+ in fees alone. Only good if you're doing a transaction of $500USD or more.
<foobarry> you could argue that bitcoin has failed as a proof of concept
<zmoylan-pi> yes... and no... a failed first attempt perhaps.  from the ashes will rise one that fixes the mistakes made most likely
<zmoylan-pi> if it dies
<zmoylan-pi> and how would you define death for a digital currency?  when a new one is worth more? when no transactions are made for a year?
<m0nkey_> The problem with bitcoin is it can only process 4 transactions per second, hence the high fees. The higher the fee, the more likely your transaction will be processed first.
<m0nkey_> Bitcoin Cash tries to fix this
<m0nkey_> Allowing it to do more transactions per second.
<m0nkey_> THe whole blockchain thing is a complete mind f......
<foobarry> https://uappexplorer.com/snaps is the ubuntu snaps available?
<foobarry> this doesn't look safe
<awilkins> Dumb question : is Xenial getting patches for Meltdown / Spectre ?
<awilkins> (are they just not out yet for anyubuntu?)
<zmoylan-pi> isn't there a bit of a hold over some bios corrupting glitch?
<awilkins> Well, that would indeed suck
<awilkins> Wondering if this is the event that pitches me into installing Fedora onto my work laptop (successfully persuaded them to permit Linux! All our servers are RedHat so it has to be a Hat Derivative!)
<Laney> That bios thing is a separate issue
<Laney> Xenial will get patched of course, it's the LTS :-)
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/KnowledgeBase/SpectreAndMeltdown
 * czajkowski is curently on 17.04, dont want to update as I'd lose the HUD and dash :( and Unity
<czajkowski> long live unity
<Laney> czajkowski: better get off it soon :-o
<Laney> 16.04 is the one for you
<czajkowski> :(
<m0nkey_> You don't have to upgrade. Just run the most recent LTS.
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> you can still run unity on 18.04, it's in the repos
<ali1234> that means it will definitely work perfectly right?
<ali1234> that's what you constantly told us about gnome panel when it was replaced by unity
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-09
<MooDoo> howdy all
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> dead channel is dead, sheesh
 * daftykins pokes at the user list with a pointy stick
 * brobostigon is ouchie now, :(
<daftykins> ah-ha, life!
 * brobostigon checks, yes life.
 * m0nkey_ remains dead
<daftykins> how cold is your corner of Canuckistan?
<m0nkey_> Not as cold
<zmoylan-pi> just organise a few customers in australia... 47c in sydney in last few days...
<m0nkey_> We're going to see some British weather
<m0nkey_> 5C with rain
<diplo> daftykins: quiet down please!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm busy attempting to convince clients to replace their out of warranty HDDs this week (which form parts of NASs etc)
<diplo> A lot of people are on telegram and other chat clients now, I still like IRC too though
<diplo> I hate having to deal with things like that
<daftykins> really? it's practically zero effort
<daftykins> and eaaaaasy money :>
<diplo> We've got a customer with a failed raid1 array, we've priced him a new drive, offered him a loan server ( already copied data ) all he has to do is sign a form to say if he doesn't return the server he'll get billed, been called and emailed 4 times and still hasn't responded
<diplo> Will shout when the raid1 fails :)
<diplo> Been failed disk for 6~ months or so
<daftykins> ah that would be annoying
<daftykins> be more tempting to pull the plug...
<m0nkey_> should have used ZFS ;)
<daftykins> heh that'd be one impressive setup that chased down the folks to pay the bills for you ;D
<SuperMatt> word up y'all
<daftykins> uh, hi :D
<SuperMatt> :D
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> mornin
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> yeesh: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/01/09/spyware-user-tracked-boyfriend-to-have-him-killed-by-hitman/
<zmoylan-pi> problem is they tried to use outsourcing and had no previous experience hiring a hitman :-P
<SuperMatt> good morning all
<czajkowski> ello
<foobarry> The Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures project (cve.mitre.org) has assigned the identifiers CVE-2017-5753 (Bounds Check bypass) and CVE-2017-5715 (Branch Target Injection) to these issues.
<foobarry> are both of these as risky as each otehr?
<foobarry> vmware 5.5 doesn't have a patch for 5753 , dunno if its forthcoming or not
<diddledan> ebay, as a single man why are you advertising at me "Lapel Flower Lace Brazilian Briefs" (for women)?!
<diddledan> oh dear: https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/2018-01-09-issue-with-tls-sni-01-and-shared-hosting-infrastructure/49996
<knightwise> hey diddledan
<knightwise> diddledan: I told you about covering up your webcam when you are in drag
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> sshhh
<diddledan> that was just for you
<knightwise> and having monthly rants with alexa when you are on your "period" also is confusing the hell of out jef's algorythems
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> because ebay knows you better than you know yourself? :-)
<diddledan> didn't the Orcale say something about knowing thyself?
<zmoylan-pi> no no, that was dirty harry...
<diddledan> oh, I thought he just asked whether you were lucky..
<zmoylan-pi> garak never stood a chance...
<diddledan> well, what's a simple tailor to do?!
<zmoylan-pi> sew his own shroud?
<diddledan> Garak was epic
<diddledan> I really need to watch that again
<zmoylan-pi> garak was enough reason to love ds9
<diddledan> problem is, end-to-end is a lot of hours
<zmoylan-pi> his spin on the boy who cried wolf...
<daftykins> he was ace :D
<daftykins> i liked how long he kept you guessing about his true history, too
<diddledan> I've forgotten most of everything
<daftykins> i get that with all TV series too, it's great for re-watchability, but weird for trying to think about what you just spent hundreds of hours doing
<zmoylan-pi> nearly as good as b5
<diddledan> I've been enjoying that new spacey thing with the weird crystal life and the undertones of war between the belters and mars and the UN
<diddledan> can't think of it's name now though
<diddledan> damn I suck
<diddledan> the expanse
<zmoylan-pi> psaw one episode, liked it, haven't watched it since...
<daftykins> ah i never kept up with that, though the season 1 headless bit was amusing
<daftykins> watching GDQ at the mo, Battletoads on arcade hardware :o www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick
<diddledan> I've been catching up on "travellers" the past couple
<zmoylan-pi> and in recent news a chinese company has revealed a suitcase that follows it's owner which is straight from red dwarf...
<daftykins> not Discworld?
<daftykins> is it scutter-esque?
<zmoylan-pi> no legs involved and were would you get the sapient pearwood?
<daftykins> btw i spotted creme eggs already, what's going on?
<zmoylan-pi> they're not cadburys creme eggs, they're now kraft creme eggs, taste different
<zmoylan-pi> and we have a small window pre valentines day push for easter crap
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> that's concerning
<daftykins> i will have to examine the packaging closer!
<daftykins> i only recently discovered why all the sacla pesto i keep buying tastes like crap, turns out i want the "#1" and not this "#9" the shop by me sells
<zmoylan-pi> kraft bought cadburys, they changed the recipe
<zmoylan-pi> next thing been changed is irn bru. scots are not a happy bunch... even more so than normal... :-P
<daftykins> mmm read about that one, nasty
<zmoylan-pi> if they make the scots eat healthy food, there'll be a surplus of scots!!
<czajkowski> popey: are you on 17.10 ?
<popey> I have a 17.10 machine next to me
<czajkowski> what's it like ?
<czajkowski> good bad indifferent ?
<czajkowski> need to upgrade this machine
<daftykins> download it and take it for a spin? :)
<popey> My main machine is 16.04. I only have 17.10 to test it.
<popey> I am running Unity on both. I ran GNOME Shell for a while on 17.10 but I found it too slow.
<czajkowski> can always do a fresh install if I don't like it
<czajkowski> cant hurt to try something new
<daftykins> or can it...
<czajkowski> we're at the installing the updates part
<czajkowski> cleaning up
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> 190 packages going bye byw
<czajkowski> and back
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> popey: how do I lock things to the side bar ?
<popey> uh
<popey> launch them, then right click the icon and add to favorites?
<czajkowski> hmm my right click on the track pad seems to have been disabled
<czajkowski> nothing right clicks
<czajkowski> omg the buttons are on the right hand side
<daftykins> xD
<diddledan> biggest mistake ever to move them to the left. and an even bigger mistake to put them back again
<diddledan> </moaners>
<czajkowski> no hud
<czajkowski> popey: any idea where I can find track pad - right click settings?
<czajkowski> I found Mouse and Touchpad
<czajkowski> but nothing for right click
<popey> there's a tweak tool which has more options
<popey> because it seems gnome upstream have removed some things from some places that people like
<popey> tweak tool provides a UI to see those things you miss in many cases
<czajkowski> ah interesting
<czajkowski> to me right click is a default
<czajkowski> everthing else seems not too bad
<czajkowski> differnet but usable
<czajkowski> popey: how do I install stuff?
<popey> gnome software or apt or snap ;)
<czajkowski> ohh buttons back on the left - nice tool
<czajkowski> and right click
<czajkowski> popey: thank you
<popey> yay
<czajkowski> oa  few things are off like clock and calendar
<czajkowski> and then the tweak tool fixes it
<popey> I find some of the GNOME design decisions to be very odd, but seems I'm in the minority :(
<diddledan> no, you're wrong. the Gnome design decisions are correct. As mandated by the Ministry of Truth
<czajkowski> the clock being off is very odd
<daftykins> diddledan: :)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/opensourceway/status/951207509070577665
<diddledan> if I knew what one was, I still wouldn't be able to Even: https://twitter.com/jedisct1/status/951231933081706497
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-11
<diddledan> daftykins: I've found your next kitty: https://twitter.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/951265139398934528
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> popey: did you get anywhere with a flameshot snap?
<MooDoo> howdy all
<czajkowski> aloha
<diddledan> my path to world domination has progressed. I'm now "well-known" and "trusted": https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/alias-request-for-newsboat-podboat/3434/3
<daftykins> little does he know...
<Azelphur> Hi folks, completely offtopic random question. Does anyone know of some PoS software I could use on an Android tablet? Needs to work offline, doesn't need to be amazingly featured, it's for a tuck shop in a club.
<daftykins> https://www.clover.com/ ?
<daftykins> paypal have a thing also, but lol paypal
<Azelphur> don't need card processing either, just cash, logging what has been sold is pretty much the only requirement
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> then libreoffice calc ;)
<Azelphur> haha, that amusingly could be an answer, I bet it supports buttons and images.
<Azelphur> would need a bit of scripting, but I bet it's possible
<Azelphur> except for the fact that it's an android tablet, so no libreoffice :(
<daftykins> mmm, never done much beyond very basic things with google sheets
<Azelphur> me too
<Azelphur> I feel like there must be something out there to do it, it's just hard to find
<daftykins> i think this is one of those tasks that you can get done sooner than you can find
<Azelphur> daftykins: probably
<Nafallo> Payment of Service? I read it as Piece of S**t ;-)
<daftykins> point of sale (: but i also read that first xD
<foobarry> Azelphur: i thought yuo'd retired and bought an island with bitcoin profits by now..
<foobarry> sounds like the sort of 3rd year project or even school computing project would produce quite a few of those type of apps
<Azelphur> foobarry: well, the former part of that statement is more or less true
<Azelphur> quit my job back in October
<daftykins> :O
<zmoylan-pi> now looking for the perfect volcano lair that's kitty friendly? :-)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> I'm living a fairly modest retirement at age 27, can't knock it.
<Azelphur> wouldn't mind getting back into work though, just something a bit more sane than my last job :)
<daftykins> and closer to home? ;)
<Azelphur> haha, remote work never bugged me, if anything I preferred it
<Azelphur> much better working remote and having no commute time / cost :)
<daftykins> commuting is an alien concept to me, furthest i've ever been was crossing from the centre to the north-east of the island, a 15 minute cycle
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> at least in my fitter youth
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> for me, unless it's remote, it's London
<Azelphur> which is a ~2 hour train journey, screw that.
<foobarry> what was the last job?
<Azelphur> foobarry: Python/Django web dev stuff
<foobarry> if i'm making youtube screencasts to put on our docs site, i don't need to show a picture in picture with my face too do I?
<foobarry> people seem to have a habit of doing so but it doesn't seem to add anything
<daftykins> i wouldn't bother, as long as the audio of your voice is decent quality
<daftykins> if that's what you're doing even
<foobarry> talking over mainly linux terminal
<foobarry> most linux screen/webcam studio apps seem abandoned :(
<ali1234> OBS works fine for me
<foobarry> https://itsfoss.com/best-linux-screen-recorders/
<foobarry> hadn't seen that one (OBS) before
<ali1234> it's the one everyone uses for twitch, if they don't want to pay or prefer FOSS
<foobarry> thx
<daftykins> it's just not the friendliest :>
<foobarry> need to find out how to screen zoom. compiz used to be awesome for that
<ali1234> xfce has the same feature
<ali1234> but you have to press alt
<foobarry> just disovered typora which is a nice "live edit" markdown writer
<foobarry> elementary has super key and +/- but ot the same slick compiz way with mouse
<ali1234> KDE is the same
<ali1234> you can bind it to any possible keyboard shortcut, but not mouse buttons
<foobarry> actually its not too bad once you get the hang. it zooms around wherever the pointer is. maybe its enough
<foobarry> finding that lots of users can't be bothered to read the docs that have been lovingly made
<foobarry> so the youtube generation might prefer some vids
<kerr9000> hi
<foobarry> o/
<zmoylan-pi> too late
<foobarry> :o
<foobarry> the one that got away
<foobarry> its funny. computerphile are one of the least professionally produced vids on youtube but v popular regardless
<zmoylan-pi> i'll get my harpoon gun... :-P
<foobarry> wobbly camera and marker pen+ fanfold paper
<foobarry> where do they get all that green printer paper?
<foobarry> 1980 stocks?
<zmoylan-pi> lots of that paper still in use
<zmoylan-pi> werever there is a dot matrix printer...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-12
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> To answer the question, we still have 100's of dot matrix's still in use unfortunately, customers still wanting to buy them
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> oh, afternood no
<diddledan> now*
<diplo> :)
<Laney> Seems like Radio 4 news can use "shithole" in the daytime when quoting the US president
 * Laney goes faint and gets the smelling salts out
<Laney> think of the children
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> Laney: you crack me up
<Laney> about time someone appreciated me
<Laney> hey czajkowski!
<czajkowski> Laney: ello ello
<czajkowski> Laney: coming to fosdem ?
<Laney> oui
<Laney> grey and grim brussels here we come~~~~
<Laney> should go there in the summer one year
<zmoylan-pi> you'll just have to keep cheerful with chocolate and stroopwafel
<Laney> oh there will be waffle
<zmoylan-pi> but warm gooey stroopwafel over tea or coffee....
<czajkowski> much waffles
<czajkowski> and frites
<Laney> mayoooooooooooo
<Laney> I always get super messy from the food cart food
<Laney> face / hands covered in chocolate sauce
<Laney> oh fosdem
<diplo>   I've not been to Brussels in years, but I do miss the waffles!
<Safiyyah> hi all, I have an initramfs error, it says /dev/sda2 UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY: RUN fsck MANUALLY
<Safiyyah> fsck exited with status code 4
<Safiyyah> it's the black screen of death!
<daftykins> ruh roh
<daftykins> hubby's gonna get it!
<daftykins> what are you booted into right now?
<Safiyyah> lol i am on the laptop
<daftykins> but on the failed machine, is it still sat at a shell?
<Safiyyah> yes
<daftykins> probably best to boot a live session from a USB flash drive if you have one handy
<Safiyyah> okay, i am doing that
<daftykins> i'm gonna assume sdb is a mechanical drive and sda the SSD
<Safiyyah> all loaded, fired up a terminal
<daftykins> is it online?
<Safiyyah> yes
<Safiyyah> internet working
<daftykins> sudo apt update && sudo apt install smartmontools pastebinit
<daftykins> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdb | pastebinit
<ubuntu-mate> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26373796/
<Safiyyah> daftykins that's my desktop
<daftykins> hrmm does it only have the SSD - and so sdb is an external disk?
<daftykins> sudo parted -l | pastebinit
<Safiyyah> yes
<Safiyyah> only have a SSD
<daftykins> oh i'm an idiot, i misread your first line
<daftykins> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | pastebinit
<ubuntu-mate> Failed to contact the server: [Errno socket error] The read operation timed out
<Safiyyah> that's what I got
<daftykins> hmm seems like it lost the connection already
<daftykins> give it another go
<safiyyah-desktop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26373820/
<daftykins> or... "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | nc termbin.com 9999"
<daftykins> 320 unexpected power loss count xD that's a lot
<safiyyah-desktop> http://termbin.com/bj61
<daftykins> 4 reallocated sectors, nasty
<daftykins> sudo fsck -y /dev/sda2
<safiyyah-desktop> all the things which say fix? had yes as an answer
<safiyyah-desktop> time to reboot?
<daftykins> depends what the output said toward the end, did it say it repaired things successfully?
<safiyyah-desktop> it said
<safiyyah-desktop> file system modified
<daftykins> heh, well that's worth a try then - sure, give a normal boot a try
<daftykins> are you folks still repeatedly hard powering it off when it won't shutdown normally?
<safiyyah-desktop> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26373846/
<safiyyah-desktop> no they stopped hard powering, it is crushing when watching streaming video
<daftykins> crashing? oh dear
<safiyyah-desktop> yes mid vid... just freezes
<safiyyah-desktop> did you check pastebin?
<safiyyah-desktop> is it time to reboot?
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> not a very healthy looking situation, but give it a reboot and see what it does
<Safiyyah> it has rebooted normally
<Safiyyah> what needs to be done to help revive the thing?
<daftykins> got no idea what's causing the issues
<Safiyyah> it also refused to update... i forgot to mention that the update says it has a serious problem
<daftykins> i think that SSD is a bit unhappy and could probably do with some time spent trying to provoke it, too
<daftykins> ah, messy
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> shall I just leave it?
<Safiyyah> at least we are back on
<daftykins> for now, but it sounds like it needs some real attention at some point
<daftykins> you might want to back up any data it might have on it
<Safiyyah> you know the processor is really really old
<daftykins> i forget which
<daftykins> grep -i model /proc/cpuinfo
<Safiyyah> shall I run the lspci?
<daftykins> that won't show the CPU
<safiyyah_> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26373899/
<Safiyyah> i am pretty sure it is about 10 years old
<Safiyyah> we have updated the motherboard and SSD over the years but that is an ancient piece
<Safiyyah> i will agree it is a museum piece (like you said last time)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> yep time to retire that one
<daftykins> i give away better than that these days
<zmoylan-pi> and with zero chance of a bug fix from intel at that age...
<Safiyyah> lol
<Safiyyah> okay so will buy a new processor sometime within the next month and put it in
<daftykins> no no
<daftykins> dump the whole box
<Safiyyah> seriously????
<daftykins> anything that'll go in the same motherboard will be equally a waste of time
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<daftykins> you can get something so many generations newer for <Â£300
<Safiyyah> okidok
<daftykins> www.dell.co.uk/outlet
<zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi3 might run rings around it... :-)
<Safiyyah> this was a self build
<daftykins> browse there regularly and you'll find a bargain machine for cheap
<zmoylan-pi> argos have a new catalog out so will be shoving a few bits out cheap too... worth a look
<Safiyyah> zmoylan-pi, what is a rasp pi3?
<Safiyyah> what about another self build? don't hang your heads!!!
<daftykins> waste of time
<zmoylan-pi> a small sbc (single board computer) https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b/
<daftykins> lift the curse of your desktop by starting anew :D
<zmoylan-pi> buy a whole new curse instead... :-)
<daftykins> you could keep the SSD buuuuut it's got some problems that might not be fixable
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: a faster curse ;)
<Safiyyah> there was a little system in currys the little compact desktops for Â£180
<daftykins> small is typically bad
<zmoylan-pi> small is slow... usually
<Safiyyah> okay we will start having a look around
<Safiyyah> and list the curse!
<Safiyyah> okay got to feed this baby
<Safiyyah> thank you so much
<Safiyyah> goodnight!
<daftykins> o/
<diddledan> boo
 * m0nkey_ poops his pants
 * diddledan been currying with popey 
<diddledan> apparently he really is a real boy
<diddledan> no strings or anything!
<zmoylan-pi> might be a glove puppet...
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-13
<diddledan> https://www.maplin.co.uk/cs/google-mini-offer?cmpid=email%3Aweeklyemail%3A1212018%3Aversion-More2_List3_LAPSED_C2_062017_SG_IN_ONLY_Adestra%26utm_source%3Dnewsletter%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3D18P11-16&S2REF=409325
<diddledan> ergh
<diddledan> you get the picture, though, click the link
<diddledan> WPA3?! :-o https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3k57jv/after-more-than-a-decade-wi-fi-security-finally-gets-a-major-update
<Gromit_> Hello, Good Morning :)
<GromitUK> much better handle, :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> ::mutter mutter:: ::pulls duvet over head::
<sebsebseb> Ah major issues trying to get any USB's loading up properly from from this lap top,  get Grub, but cant go past that black screen, and that's with newly burnt usb's with isos, and old ones even, werid it used to work  in past once secure boot waas disabled and that,  but now nope, when its back with a new motherboard and hard disk
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> enjoy before the cold weather arrives...
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: even colder?
<zmoylan-pi> seemingly...
<brobostigon> https://darksky.net/forecast/51.752,-1.2578/uk224/en doesnt look two bad,
<brobostigon> too*
<halt> just because there is an of chance that my issue is distro specific, I ask it here as well, ( also becasue the httpd channel is dead ) I have this config https://apaste.info/f1Lh and I can't access the server-status on apache 2.4
<Nafallo> looks like you can though? you're getting a redirect your curl isn't following?
<halt> Well that goes out to the main domain on https and there only a 403
<halt> curl -s -I -L localhost/server-status?auto | grep ^HTTP
<halt> HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
<halt> HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
<Fogey_> Is there s specific help channel?
<daftykins> the main channel is #ubuntu - but you can ask here as well, as long as it's *buntu based
<Fogey_> Sure is.  I've got 16.04.3 installed on an old Toshiba laptop - all was great until the latest update....
<daftykins> ruh roh
<daftykins> boot the last kernel and then update again
<daftykins> you may have obtained a dud
<Fogey_> Did.
<daftykins> ok well i'm going to need a little bit more detail than that
<Fogey_> OK, so complete reinstall and update - same problem.  When you move the mouse to the top r/h corner the screen blanks....
<Fogey_> Flickers and then returns...
<daftykins> oh right so it's nothing boot related
<Fogey_> Boots OK, looks OK, until you want to use it...#
<daftykins> which kernel is it on?
<Fogey_> Interestingly, when you do manage to grab Firefox, the top menu dissapears.
<Fogey_> disappears?
<Fogey_> Col bogey. I don't know...  tell me how to find out...
<daftykins> uname -r
<daftykins> you might be able to boot, ignore the GUI entirely and switch to a TTY to run the above - with ctrl+alt+F1
<Fogey_> 4.10.0-28-generic
<Fogey_> s'ok I managed to get a terminal..
<daftykins> mmm so HWE kernel of the .3 media - can you share an lspci via "lspci | pastebinit" ?
<Fogey_> gawd.  OK, spell it out for me...
<daftykins> no you don't need an explanation of that
<daftykins> having any luck with the above command?
<Fogey_> So you say...  I can't find that filter thingy character
<daftykins> the pipe? |
<Fogey_> pipe! That's it...
<daftykins> it's shift + the key between left shift and Z on a UK layout
<Fogey_> Well fancy that!
<Fogey_> Hang on, I've got to install pastebinit
<Fogey_> OK, i've run the command, where's the flippin text gone?
<daftykins> it should have output a URL to type here
<Fogey_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/26384861
<daftykins> ok intel integrated graphics only
<Fogey_> It's an old laptop :)
<daftykins> that's irrelevant, modern laptops can be intel graphics only too
<daftykins> and: grep -i model /proc/cpuinfo
<Fogey_> Like me..
<Fogey_> You want me to shove that down the pipe too?
<daftykins> nah just run it and let me know what the CPU is
<Fogey_> Model 23
<daftykins> should have a proper name like "intel blah blah"
<Fogey_> Pentium(R) Dual-Core T4300 @2.10GHz
<daftykins> that's the one
<daftykins> try reinstalling using this image and updating as normal - http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/16.04.1/ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<Fogey_> I've re-installed using an old release it works OK. I'm actually using it now.
<daftykins> no you're not, you're using a newer image which gave you a newer kernel
<daftykins> 13:48 < Fogey_> 4.10.0-28-generic <-- as stated above
<daftykins> i'm on a 16.04 install which is running 4.4.0-109-generic
<Fogey_> Well, it was off a USB stick that I set up last year.  It works.
<daftykins> then i need to know what version it is
<daftykins> it can't be that much older since you claim to be giving me output from the problem machine
<Fogey_> I am.  Re-installed but DID NOT accept the latest updates which appears to be the issue.
<daftykins> ok, well the point i'm trying to get at is to run a different kernel version by installing from the ISO i linked above, so do that please
<daftykins> updating after *that* install will be different
<Fogey_> Alrighty, you'll have to excuse my ignorance.
<Fogey_> Getting the 16.04 LTS from the website sometime last year brought me to this point.
<Fogey_> The latest update made things go wonky.
<Fogey_> Where does that leave me going backwards?
<daftykins> yes, as time goes on they refresh the images with newer hardware enablement stacks, which results in a different kernel and GUI stack for the release versus the original 16.04 release
<daftykins> !hwe
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<daftykins> just means you'll be on 4.4 instead of 4.10, still gets updates and fixes
<daftykins> trying out the older one is a troubleshooting test i've picked
<Fogey_> I don't suppose you can overwrite the Kernel from the command line?
<daftykins> i'd have issued an instruction to do things the easy way, if there were an easy way
<daftykins> reinstall with the above ISO please :)
<Fogey_> Hah! of course..
<Fogey_> OK. That's gonna take some time....  If you don't hear from me again,.... many thanks for assistance.
<daftykins> np, good luck
<daftykins> i know who to point you to if it does the same
<Fogey_> OKey doke.  Now how do I quite this thing?
<Fogey_> quit1
