#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-18
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<robr> kylem, i'm having a bit of trouble trying to use ssh to get your git repo for the kernel
<robr> kylem, when i use the command git clone ssh://robr@kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
<robr> it reports the patch can't be found
<robr> what is the correct ssh url for accessing your git repo via ssh?
<kylem> try:
<kylem> er, i need to check.
<kylem> for ssh:
<kylem> git clone robr@kernel.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
<kylem> bbiab (sorry, i'm on vacation this week)
<robr> kylem, thanks -- sorry to bug you on your vacation
<pkl_> robr: what's the problem.  Maybe I can help?
<robr> pkl_, what's the correct ssh url to the gutsy kernel git repo?
<pkl_> robr: you have an account on Zinc?
<robr> pkl_, yes
<robr> and i'm able to ssh into the box
<pkl_> ah good, just getting the info now..
<pkl_> ssh://<your-login>@zinc.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
<robr> pkl_, i'll give that a try
<pkl_> using that you should be able to push to the repo (and pull)
<robr> pkl_, looks like it's working, thanks
<pkl_> robr: no problem
<BenC> robr: been able to access your account yet?
<robr> BenC, yes
<robr> BenC, i'm cloning the git repo now...it's a bit slow thru our firewall
<BenC> robr: tar,gz + scp might have been faster than strict git protocol :)
<robr> d'oh! didn't think about it that way
<BenC> robr: I'll get jpan's account setup, hopefully will be done by start of business your time tomorrow
<BenC> the admins are in the UK, so well past normal hours for them
<robr> BenC: thanks
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi there! How's the vacations?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: good, debconf now.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ah, didn't remember that. When you're back?
<Mithrandir> Monday
<robr> BenC_ / pkl_ : do you guys have rsync running on your kernel.ubuntu.com ? we could just mirror your tree locally here behind our corporate firewall
<BenC> robr: unfortunately not...perhaps I could get admin to open that up for us
<robr> BenC, it would make it more efficient for us, but not absolutely neccessary
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-19
<bspencer> tko: are you around?
<horaceli> bspencer, howdy
<bspencer> howdy
<horaceli> we 'll have a meeting 7 minutes later. are you in office now?
<bspencer> yes
<horaceli> Oops. i entered the wrong channel
<bspencer> :) np
<tko> bspencer: at 3am I'm usually sleeping.. usually I wouldn't be awake for a few hours still
<Mithrandir> morning everybody
<Mithrandir> I should send out a preliminary agenda for a meeting on Thursday
<ubuntu-mobile> somebody kwows where I can find list of components, libs, X-stufs .. for ubuntu mobile ?
<agoliveira> ubuntu-mobile: What do you mean by "list of components"?
<jozzel> I mean which components is it going to use , kernel, ulibc , ...
<jozzel> or is it more general , and the choice is free, 
<jozzel> which kind of embedded X is it going to use , ...
<agoliveira> Right now it will be the same as Ubuntu has as it's going to be used for web tablets and hardware like that. After, there will probably be changes in this area but there's nothing certain yet.
<Mithrandir> hi Adilson
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi there!
<Mithrandir> do you have any items for the agenda for the meeting on Thursday?
<jozzel> On which platvorms will it be suported , ARM, MIPS , ...
<jozzel> ?
<Mithrandir> jozzel: initially, an ia32-compatible called lpia
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Perhaps talk about the point we are now. I didn't think about it yet.;
<Mithrandir> I'm planning on sending out an invitation for the meeting later today, so if something pops up, tell me
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Oh, sorry, you were talking about the embedded meeting not the devel meeting. For that I don't have any specifics actually, I just want to wrap-up the issues of last week and set the points to the continued work.
<Mithrandir> yes, the embedded meeting.
<Mithrandir> ok, so a summary of the work done in mountain view
<agoliveira> Yes
<jozzel> ia32 , is that lpia , can someone tell me more about that ? Or where can I find more about it ?
<inz> http://www.intel.com/technology/systems/lpia/
<jozzel> got it: Low power on Intel Architecture 
<agoliveira> Yes, that's silly as hell but that's way it was done.
<happycube> lol a zaurus
<happycube> and i think a clie
<tko> bspencer: maemo 3.x all include the old hildon-libs. hildon-1 will be included in chinook/4.x (it's the "Consolidated Hildon Framework" in the roadmap)
<bspencer> tko: Thx.  So 3.x will eventually be obsolete and the "Consolidated Hildon Framework" is the future, 4.x, and what Nokia will be using going forward.
<tko> bspencer: yes
<tko> the motion is generally forward :)
<bspencer> tko: how often does a new tag get applied (e.g. 0.0.18)?  Is there some validation with each tag?
<tko> bspencer: depends.. at least when things need to be pushed to internal integration which might be weekly, some times maybe more often, sometimes less
<bspencer> does 0.0.18 exist now?
<tko> validation in current setup is more or less "it works on the developers environment"
<tko> dunno, I'd have to check
<bspencer> me too
<jacob-laptop> hi Ben, i have ported poulsbo patches to 2.6.22 kernel. how should i send it to you? i already pushed it into our local git
<tko> http://repository.maemo.org/sardine/armel/sardine/packagestatus.html says hildon-desktop 0.0.18-1 is in sardine, which is a good sign in that it proves the tag actually built :)
<tko> (can be found via sardine.garage.maemo.org / Build environment)
<tko> so you could consider sardine status as additional validation step
* bspencer checks
<bspencer> a good link.  thanks.
<rusty> hmm.... the gutsy apt package changed it's "Priority:" from "required" to "important"... now debootstrap doesn't install apt
<tko> who needs apt anyway? :)
<happycube> lol
<moimart> hi
<agoliveira> moimart: Ola Moises, que pasa? :)
<agoliveira> moimart: Had a good trip back home?
<moimart> agoliveira: bien y tu? :)
<moimart> agoliveira: yeah, i slept all the way home :)
<moimart> agoliveira: and you?
<agoliveira> moimart: Lucky bastard :) It wasn't the best flight I had in my life but was better that the other way around.
<moimart> agoliveira: when checking in one of the attendes told us if we wanted to be volunteers for losing the plane, get another one the next day and be paid 600
<moimart> agoliveira: we weren't so lucky bastards :(
<agoliveira> moimart: Hmmm... In cash? If I had the option I would jump on it ;)
<agoliveira> Or better: I would trade for a 1st class seat!
<moimart> agoliveira: yeah in cash, but eventually there were seats for us :)
<moimart> when we heard 600 we said "yeah of course, count me in" :)
<bspencer> moimart: hi -- how was the flight home?
* bspencer reads previous comments.
<bspencer> moimart: do you know about the Nokia patch to gtk to detect when an edit field gets/loses focus ?
<moimart> bspencer: fine, and yours?
<bspencer> moimart: whew, that 1hr flight was a killer ;)
<tko> bspencer: that's built in to gtkentry already and it proxies the info to im context
<Mithrandir> bspencer: any idea if you'll make it to London the week before guadec?
<moimart> bspencer: Mine, seemed to last one hour for me
<bspencer> tko: aha.  is that code you pushed upstream?
<moimart> bspencer: btw, there gonna be radical changes in libhildondesktop
<bspencer> moimart: better not
<bspencer> or we'll be sleeping in your living room while you re-teach us 
<tko> bspencer: that part has been there forever.. we have some changes that affect calls to gtk_im_context_reset I don't completely understand
<moimart> bspencer: we decided we are gonna rename the prefix hildon_desktop_ by hd_
<moimart> bspencer: nothing to worry actually :)
<bspencer> tko: is it possible with stock gtk to get notification for keyboard to start/stop? 
<bspencer> is that what gtk_im_context_reset does for us?
<bspencer> (I'll go find that code)
<bspencer> Mithrandir: hopefully.  At least a 2-3 days are planned.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: good to hear
<tko> bspencer: I think the necessary logic for showing/hiding the keyboard for gtkentry and gtktextview is possible withing imcontext. we export the show/show functions for widgets imcontext doesn't know about. the reset changes are related to word completion IIRC
<bspencer> word completion -- hmm.. that's too fancy for us yet. ;)     I'll look at imcontext.  thx.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-20
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<bspencer_> moimart, what are the changes you are making to libhildondesktop?
<bspencer_> hd_ ?
<jozzel> load -u tftp://192.168.1.2/openrg.img
<jozzel> oops
<jozzel> wrong copy paste
<BenC> robr: jpan's zinc.ubuntu.com account is created
<bspencer_> moimart, morning
<bspencer_> agoliveira_lunch, hildon-desktop-dev pkg is broken
<bspencer_> moimart, tko :  are you guys around?
<bspencer_> when building hildon-desktop, I get errors looking for HILDONBASELIB_CFLAGS
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Hi. I'm working on the dev packages. What is the problem?
<bspencer_> agoliveira, hey my friend.  I get this error:
<bspencer_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<bspencer_>   hildon-desktop-dev: Depends: libhildondesktop-dev but it is not going to be installed
<bspencer_>                       Depends: libhildonwm-dev but it is not going to be installed
<bspencer_> when I run:  apt-get install hildon-desktop-dev
<bspencer_> I am able to successfully install libhildonfm2-dev
<bspencer_> but when I try to install libhildonwm-dev, I get:
<bspencer_> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<bspencer_>   libhildonwm-dev: Depends: libhildon1-dev but it is not installable or
<bspencer_>                             hildon-libs-dev but it is not installable
<bspencer_> and libhildon1-dev doesn't exist (anymore).  I think it is supposed to be libhildon-1-dev
<bspencer_> but even libhildon-1-dev I think should be called libhildon-1-0-dev  ...  :)
<bspencer_> because there is a libhildon-1-0 and libhildon-1-0-dbg package, but no libhildon-1  pkg.
* bspencer_ ends long rant
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Got it.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I found part of it myself yesterday. I'll see to fix it.
<bspencer_> cool
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Is there anything of this being a show stopper or can you work around? I wanted to think a bit better about that, perhaps change the package naming, etc, and this can take a while to bake.
<bspencer_> depends on what "a while'" means
<bspencer_> I am currently working with a svn checkout of hildon-desktop while I wait for our dev packages and source
<bspencer_> but would really like to move to apt pkgs by Friday
<agoliveira> bspencer_: In that case, it will be better just to fix the deppendencies for now so you can move on.
<bspencer_> that said, I'm all for a better package naming scheme.  What do you have in mind
<agoliveira> bspencer_: I think that by tomorrow this should be ok.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: To be sincere, I don't have much of an idea so far. Perhaps would be better to raise this issue over the sprint when we  will be all together.
<bspencer_> ok.  then I think we should get the dependencies working.  I'll check again tomorrow 
<bspencer_> agoliveira, quick process question...
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Shoot
<bspencer_> if I have something in bazaar which has already been pulled into gusty apt repository, do changes I make to the bazaar package get pulled in automatically?
<bspencer_> or do I have to request an update
<agoliveira> bspencer_: It's not automatic. Someone with privileges has to do it.
<bspencer_> for example, osso-af-settings is a pkg in gutsy already.  I need to tweak it.
<bspencer_> what are the steps I should take
<agoliveira> bspencer_: After the sprint I hope to be able to do it myself.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: Due our different time zones, I think that would be better you send me or Tollef an email and we can forward your request.
<bspencer_> ok.  sounds like a plan.
<agoliveira> bspencer_: After the sprint we should be able to do it more smoothly.
<agoliveira> BTW, gosh, it's in less than 3 weeks already....
<tko> bspencer: you should be able to remove all references to hildon-base-lib and alternate spellings. we've removed the library (same functionality exists in gnome-vfs and inotify) so all remaining references are bugs
<robr> BenC, did you get a chance to look at the patches that Jacob sent you?
<robr> BenC, what's the correct method to get them into your kernel tree? you check them or do we?
<rusty_> bobux, oh really?
<agoliveira> I'm going to be offline for about 45 min and return with my ADSL better, faster, stronger (C) - Daft Punk
<agoliveira> CU later
<bspencer_> if I comment out that line, I get: 'dbus_glib_background_manager_object_info' undeclared (first use in this function)
<bspencer_> oops :P
<agoliveira> Well, didn't expect as well as I tought. The new line didn't sync. We should try again a bit later :(
<agoliveira> I meant: didn't work as well as I expected :)
<BenC> robr: the best method is to clone our tree, apply them, and then request a pull from kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com
<BenC> robr: amitk is checking those patches you sent into our tree though
<jacob-laptop> BenC: should i put my git repo on zinc for amitk to pull?
<BenC> jacob-laptop: as long as it's based on our tree, sure
<jacob-laptop> ok
<BenC> jacob-laptop: if you are doing from our tree, it would make things easier if you could follow our commit templates in debian/commit-templates/
<BenC> not required, but makes our changelog cleaner
<BenC> for commits we do "git-commit -s -F debian/commit-templates/patch -e"
<BenC> and it's got lots of comments
<jacob-laptop> that is good to know
<BenC> jacob-laptop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam has some docs on how we work from the tree and do uploads and builds
<BenC> main wiki page -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelMaintenance
<jacob-laptop> i was gonna ask for this, thanks.
<BenC> jacob-laptop: np, here if you have any questions
<amitk> robr, jacob-laptop: Let me know if create a git repo for me to pull from. I will be working on that tomorrow
<robr> amitk, ok
<bspencer_> agoliveira, question about hildon-desktop
<bspencer_> I think it should depend on some packages:  gtk2-engines-sapwood, hildon-theme-plankton
<bspencer_> (or include)
<bspencer_> and where is hildon-control-panel-l10n-engb ?  
<agoliveira> bspencer_: 1) Yes, I think you're right but we decided to wait until we check how we would handle themes or not?
<agoliveira> bspencr_: 2) This package is  into the hal-marketing-release IIRC (I'm updating my machine to gutsy and I can't tell you for sure right now).
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-21
<bspencer_> agoliveira, thx
<agoliveira> bspencer_: My pleasure dude! BTW, are any of you going to the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo in SF? There will be a mobile track there.
<tko> IMO hildon-desktop shouldn't depend on sapwood.. it might depend on any "hildon compatible" theme. if the theme uses sapwood the that theme needs to depend on gtk2-engines-sapwood
<agoliveira> tko: That's an interesting idea. Tool bad I have no idea how to package this :P but we can plan something.
<tko> agoliveira: we have our theme dependency in higher level metapackage
<agoliveira> tko: Yes. I meant that I have no idea if we would keep this way or do it diferently.
<tko> I'm remembering a discussion we had internally and I think we should probably add a virtual hildon-theme dependency and let plankton and other theme packages provide it
<tko> but then again, it's just cosmetics...
<Mithrandir> if hildon-desktop needs a theme (but doesn't care which) add a depends on sapwood | hildon-theme and have sapwood (and any other themes) provide hildon-theme.
<tko> sapwood is just the engine
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I think that mix sapwood with the theme is not a good idea.
<jacob_> BenC,  i created /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git, but i got error trying to push my changes
<jacob_> BenC, the error is error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?
<BenC> jacob_: how did you create jpan9-git-tree on zinc?
<jacob_> following the KernelGitGuide
<BenC> jacob_: Are you trying to push your local Linus based tree to it?
<BenC> or is your local tree based on our gutsy tree?
<jacob_> git-clone -l -n -s /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git
<jacob_> yes, it is. i did a pull
<BenC> No, I mean the tree you are pushing from
<jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git pull ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
<jacob_> Already up-to-date.
<BenC> ah, so you cloned, pulled, committed changes, and are trying to push?
<BenC> well, I mean you cloned on zinc, cloned that locally, committed, and then push
<jacob_> the only glich might be i cloned from our local copy that rob created, 
<BenC> ah, that's it
<jacob_> before i got access to zinc
<BenC> git-fetch origin; git-rebase origin
<BenC> I rebase to Linux tree every so often (soon to be on a schedule)
<BenC> so it throws off the history
<BenC> s/Linux/Linus/
<BenC> not sure how your tree is, but might have to use full URI: git-fetch zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy; git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy
<jacob_> let me try
<jacob_> still have the same problem
<jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-fetch jpan9@zinc.ubuntu.com:/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy master:ubuntu-gutsy;
<jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git-rebase ubuntu-gutsy
<jacob_> Current branch master is up to date.
<jacob_> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy$ git push ssh://jpan9@kernel.ubuntu.com/srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
<jacob_> error: remote 'refs/heads/origin' is not a strict subset of local ref 'refs/heads/origin'. maybe you are not up-to-date and need to pull first?
<BenC> hmm..how can it be up-to-date and not be a subset :/
<BenC> oh, it's only complaining about origin
<jacob_> for got to pull again, so the push works now. thanks
<Mithrandir> BenC: can you be around for an update on the mobile kernel, tomorrow, at 1600 UTC?
<BenC> Mithrandir: luckily that happens to be an hour before I have 3 catch-up calls with kernel team
<BenC> Mithrandir: this channel?
<BenC> Oh, wait, tomorrow is Thu
<BenC> ok, still open
<Mithrandir> BenC: yes, as in about 16 hours.
<Mithrandir> great, thanks.
<BenC> I'll invite amit too
<Mithrandir> update as in, I'd like an update on what's happening there, particularly with the spec.
<Mithrandir> Kyle is the drafter, but he's on VAC
<BenC> amit is supposed to be taking things over, but I've talked to kyle a bit and should have some info for you
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<BenC> Mithrandir: damnit, my head is mis calculating UTC to local...I have an engineering call tomorrow with a vendor at 16:00 UTC
<Mithrandir> can you get amitk up to speed and ask him to attend on behalf of the kernel team then?
<BenC> Mithrandir: I'll email status to amit and let him present
<Mithrandir> thanks
<BenC> I can still sit in and try to answer while on the phone
<Mithrandir> if you could, that'd be great
<bspencer> agoliveira: Mithrandir, tko :  but the point Mithrandir made is a good one.  Have the theme pkg provide hildon-theme
<bspencer> and hildon-desktop dependsd on hildon-theme
<bspencer> the plankton pkg would have the sapwood dependency
<bspencer> (plankton being a nokia default theme)
<Mithrandir> you want to have hildon-desktop depend on plankton-theme | hildon-theme though so it knows a reasonable default
<agoliveira> as a reasonable default, I agree.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, agoliveira :  sure, until we have the MID-Ubuntu theme done.
<bspencer> or whatever.
<Mithrandir> sure, at that point we can flip the default
<agoliveira> Ok, deal.
<bspencer> tko: moimart can you confirm that the latest svn is: http://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-af-desktop/hildon-desktop/ ?
<bspencer> agoliveira: where do we pull from for the hildon-1-0 pkg?
<bspencer> 134.134.16.127
<bspencer> (bob's IP adder)
<bspencer> scratch
* rusty_ waits for bob to post other private information, like his atm number
<bspencer> credit card number:  3234 2311 4444 2122
<Mithrandir> bspencer: is your question about where to pull from where launchpad pulls from or what URL you should us to get the bzr checkout of what's in hildon-1-0?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: I am working on adding new functionality to libhildondesktop
<bspencer> I was working off source from maemo svn
<bspencer> but wanted to be sure I was working on the tip.  Then I was curious where we pull our source from.
<Mithrandir> we have branched off their trunk at some point, but will regularly resynchronise with their trunk.
<bspencer> how does the normal process work in this regard?
<bspencer> I assume I send them my code, then ubuntu syncs now and then 
<Mithrandir> that's one way to do it, yes.
<bspencer> but maybe I should be making changes to ubuntu code, then push it to them later
<Mithrandir> or you could develop it in a bzr branch
<Mithrandir> libhildondesktop is in hildon-desktop, right?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: I like that.  It means that my changes don't have to be accepted by Nokia immediately
<agoliveira> bspencer: That would be the better way I guess.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Insomnia striking today? :)
<bspencer> I think that libhildon-1-dev contains the "hildon-desktop" code.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: nah, debconf.  Hacking. :-)
<agoliveira> Guys, I'm leaving. See you tomorrow;
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: something vaguely related to -mobile even; not necessary yet, but certainly for mobile stuff: exclusion support for dpkg.
<bspencer> ciao
<Mithrandir> see you, Adilson
<bspencer> moimart, you around?
<amitk> robr: Could you please check your patches with ./scripts/checkpatch.pl in the kernel directory, fix and repost them?
<ian_brasil> is there a meeting here soon..i am sure i remeber 16:00 today but could be wrong?
<Mithrandir> you are correct
<Mithrandir> 1600 UTC
<Mithrandir> so in about 36 minutes
<ian_brasil> ok...i am not imagining things then, great
<Mithrandir> hm, so who are here already?
* agoliveira waives
* amitk filling in for benc
* agoliveira grumbles - I'm really need a good night sleep today!
<kwwii> howdy
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: you and me both.  3.5 hours after a night of hacking isn't enough
* BenC is here, but on conf call
<agoliveira> kwwii: Yo! How's the flight back?
<agoliveira> No Intel people around? I know Bob is logged in.
<Mithrandir> haven't seen them today.
<kwwii> agoliveira: long but not too bad
<agoliveira> kwwii: Same.
<kwwii> agoliveira: no customs problems? :-)
<Mithrandir> hi Charles
<agoliveira> kwwii: No. I just passed trough. But I was well in the allowance anyway.
<agoliveira> kwwii: Not counting the watch, of course :P
<kwwii> hehe, sweet - I picked up a camera in the meantime
<|moimart|> im here :)
<cfj> Hi - This is Charlie Johnson from Intel.  Tollef misidentified me in his agenda.
<Mithrandir> cfj: oops, apologies.
<Mithrandir> cfj: seen Bob and the others yet?
<cfj> They don't site close to me, so I haven't seen them
<agoliveira> kwwii: I knew you wouldn't resist :)
<cfj> Are we expecting Tollef to be on to walk thru the agenda?
<agoliveira> Yes, I guess so.
<agoliveira> Tollef: Need any help?
<Mithrandir> I'm waiting a little bit to see if Bob and Rusty shows up
<agoliveira> Ah, ok.
<Mithrandir> oh well, we'll start now and they can chime in later.
<Mithrandir> - Hildon packaging update (Tollef Fog Heen/Adilson Oliveira)
<Mithrandir> - Flash image creation (Rusty )
<Mithrandir> - Kernel and hardware support (Ben Collins)
<Mithrandir> - UI, utilities (Bob Spencer)
<Mithrandir> - Graphics (Charlie Spencer)
<Mithrandir> - Build infrastructure (Tollef Fog Heen)
<Mithrandir> - GNOME components (Bob Spencer)
<Mithrandir> - Ownerless specs: - UI guide - Browser - Media player UI - Hardware media decoding - USB client - Development environment
<Mithrandir> - Goals for the next week
<agoliveira> Fine to me.
<Mithrandir> anybody got any additions to the agenda?
<cfj> Yes - MID Wireless Device Support & Kernel Patches for Thermal optimizations
<agoliveira> I also would like Intel rep to talk about the devices a bit, just to let the others know the current situation.
<agoliveira> If there is any new, of course.
<cfj> Which type of devices?
<cfj> Or do you mean platforms?
<agoliveira> Sorry, platforms...
<cfj> I can do that.
<agoliveira> Cool.
<Mithrandir> ok, let's get started then.
<Mithrandir> Adilson, can you give us an update on the current state of the hildon packages?
<agoliveira> Sure.
<Mithrandir> (relative to two weeks ago)
<rusty> I totally spaced on the Thursday morning irc meeting thing
<ian_brasil> sorry...some talk about docs would be good too if there is time
<Mithrandir> rusty: my fault, I was supposed to send the mail a bit earlier, but debconf foiled me.
<Mithrandir> ian_brasil: good point.
<Mithrandir> rusty: any idea if Bob's showing up?
<agoliveira> We were able to put all the bits and pieces on the repository to one can use thme on Gutsy. There is a bugs yet but as a first set of packages is fine. I have being trying to reorganize them but it is just not feasible to mess this around right now. I fixing the -dev packages and will have it done probably today yet.
<rusty> I bet he forgot... I have email from him till 2 in the morning
<rusty> Has anyone tried to root cause the bug where clicking on the menu icon will crash hildon-desktop?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: that sounds like great progress.  So you can run a hildon desktop now and have applications display on it?
<agoliveira> Yes :)
<agoliveira> Since last week actually.
* sabotage confirms this
<Mithrandir> that's great; it should unblock the intel people who want to build stuff using hildon too, I hope.
<ferulo> agoliveira: is there any packaging stuff in hildon bits that should be considered to be merged upstream?
<rusty> Mithrandir, yes, we are good for app development
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: what's left before we can consider the initial sprint for packages done?
<agoliveira> ferulo: Right now, I guess not.
<Mithrandir> ferulo: probably all of it, I'd say.
<Mithrandir> more or less.
<rusty> Mithrandir, but we do have a nasty bug where the desktop crashes when you click on the icon that should provide the application menu
<agoliveira> I would prefer to mature it abit yet. 
<Mithrandir> rusty: sounds like something that should be fairly easy to track down using valgrind.
<ferulo> ok, so do you plan to submit bugs upstream or pointing us to relevant changes? or should we track your bzr repos?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: With the dev packages working, I think we are ok for a first round.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: ok, good.
<rusty> Mithrandir, Horace (in Shanghi) was attempting to track it down last night. 
<Mithrandir> ferulo: I think we want to submit it as bugs upstream, but if you would rather track bzr that would of course make it even easier for us.
<rusty> Mithrandir, i think with the gtk update from mid-last week, we dropped the a gtk patch that we depend on that allows custom file picker dialog windows
<Mithrandir> hmm, ok.
<Mithrandir> we need to fix that
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you check whether it's still there, and if not, talk to Daniel or Seb to get it back again?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure.
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<Mithrandir> anybody got anything more about the packaging update?  If not, we'll proceed to flash image creating
<Mithrandir> creation, even
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: IIRC, it is there yet but I'll double check it.
<rusty> agoliveira, are you talking about the gtk patch?
<agoliveira> Yes
<rusty> agoliveira, if the patch is there then we have a new bug that you can reproduce by attempting to open any file picker
<rusty> agoliveira, for example... open the dialog to set the background and pick the "browse" button, and watch hildon-desktop crash
<Mithrandir> ok, that needs to be fixed.
<rusty> it's just that the bug showed up the first time i created a new chroot that used the new gtk
<agoliveira> rusty: I'll see that as soon as we finish here.
<Mithrandir> rusty: can you give us an update on the image creation tools?
<Mithrandir> the spec's still drafting, what's missing there?
<Mithrandir> hmm, all of it, it seems. :-P
<rusty> i'm behind on writting the spec
<rusty> but the code is up in bzr
<Mithrandir> hi Bob
<bspencer> hey
<|moimart|> rusty: if the problem is in the hildon filechooser hildon-desktop can use gtkfilechooser
<rusty> last week i created a new project called 'project-builder'
<Mithrandir> rusty: when do you think you can have the spec written up by?  Do you need help with it?
<bspencer> moimart, glad you are around 
<|moimart|> :)
<rusty> Mithrandir, i planed on finishing it this week... i just need to make myself finish it
* bspencer thinks moimart wishes he had left already
<bspencer> moimart, I sent you a reply with all the info I could think of to be useful
<Mithrandir> rusty: ok, good.  Anything you need from anybody else for that to happen?
<|moimart|> bspencer: ill have a look
<rusty> Mithrandir, i think i'm good... as soon as I push another fix this morning then the tool can create images that boot on a samsung q1 ultra
<rusty> well... other then i need to add a new package that contains the specific samsung configuration
<bspencer> rusty, did you figure out the touchscreen config?
<Mithrandir> rusty: that's really good news.
<rusty> bspencer, no, i'm still having problems configuring the touchscreen
<rusty> the new samsung device has some challenges... like a usb camera that doesn't seem to have a driver yet
<rusty> and the wireless is the Atheros AR5006X... i'm not sure if a driver exist for that just yet
<bspencer> wireless connectivity is overrated
<bspencer> everybody is pugging in these days
<bspencer> s/pugging/plugging
<Mithrandir> heh
<agoliveira> Isnst' this Atheros AR5006X the same as the macbooks?
<rusty> I'm not sure... i haven't had time to investigate
<agoliveira> If it is, there's drivers.
<cfj> Rusty - Any update from Mauri as to when Q1 Ultras will ship to Canonical?
<cfj> I keep hearing next week for the last 3 weeks.
<rusty> We are got our first delivery of a few systems, and some more are starting to trickle in
<rusty> We are looking into the right way to ship these devices without having the recipients having to pick up the import tax
* agoliveira cries thinking about 60% of a Q1 Ultra
<rusty> so far... at the very least we will ship to a site in the specific location, and then reship domestic
<cfj> Shipping knows how to do this.  We shipped stuff to Tungsten Graphics all the time.  (i.e. Alan is in the UK.)
<rusty> cfj, you mean where we pickup the tax?
<Mithrandir> it seems like the image builder is having good progress, so I suggest we move onto the kernel and hardware support, as well as MID wireless device support & kernel patches for thermal optimisations.
<Mithrandir> and while I'm looking forward to getting my hand on a device, we can handle that after the meeting?
<cfj> It has to do with how you designate the device.  Something like claiming it is a prototype.  
<agoliveira> Agreed.
<cfj> I can ask around to find out the details.  
<Mithrandir> BenC,amitk: kernel update?
<amitk> mithrandir: right. So there are two components
<amitk> the UME kernel configuration and the actual LPIA patches
<amitk> the kernel configuration is being worked on by Kyle who is on vacation this week.
<jacob-laptop> amitk: hi, i put my git repo at /srv/kernel.ubuntu.com/git/jpan9/jpan9-git-tree.git
<amitk> I hope to start working with him when he is back
<agoliveira> amitk: When is this?
<amitk> coming the the patches... jacob-laptop: I looked at those.
<amitk> agoliveira: next week if I understood benc correctly
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: he'll be back Monday, I suspect, he's here at Debconf
<agoliveira> Oh, fine.
<cfj> How does it look getting the patches into the kernel for CD#2 at the end of the month?
<Mithrandir> what needs doing for the spec to be approved?
<amitk> jacob-laptop: could you go over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelGitGuide and clean up the patches accordingly
<Mithrandir> cfj: we'd need the patches this week, the latest.
<BenC> Tribe-2 has a deadline of Tue
<BenC> and I'm not sure we can make that, but we'll try
<amitk> More specifically, read the Patch acceptance criteria
<cfj> Jacob - What else needs to happen.  We've had these patches for a bit?
<BenC> bad part about the kernel is we have 3-4 dependent packages that have to be compiled behind it, so we need more lead time to do the upload than other packages
<agoliveira> excuse me for one minute: someone is ringging... let me kick he/she out!
<cfj> What's the minimum to allow it to boot & Run on a Menlow ??  (PATA, LPC, SMBUS ??)
<jacob-laptop> i will do the clean up and some fixes, this was the initial version did in a hurry. 
<amitk> jacob-laptop: thanks
<jacob-laptop> don't need any patch to boot.
<jacob-laptop> but using pata patch will let you boot faster
<Mithrandir> amitk: do you know if Kyle needs anything to complete the spec, or if it's just blocked on time?
<jacob-laptop> it enables DMA
<cfj> PATA, not a USB drive.
* agoliveira is back
<amitk> mithrandir: I don't. But i think it was time.
<Mithrandir> ok
<Mithrandir> I can prod him gently when I see him next.
<cfj> So again, is there anything else Intel needs to do for these core chipset patches ??  Is just Ubuntu/Canonical processing at this point?
<jacob-laptop> there is no patch for ECHI USB
<jacob-laptop> EHCI
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Good idea... he's about twice your size :)
<cfj> We don't have to wait for that. (EHCI)
<Mithrandir> cfj: you had an item about wireless device support and kernel patches for thermal optimisations.  What is there to say about them?
<jacob-laptop> cfj: we will continue developing patches for the chipset. No EHCI patch afaik.
<amitk> jacob-laptop: Do you have a time estimate on the reworked patches?
<jacob-laptop> Currently, those patches are only distributed to Ubuntu.
<jacob-laptop> amitk: if you refer to the clean up, i can do it today.
<cfj> Mithrandir: I can take the wireless and thermal topic to email.  I'd rather address graphics today.  
<Mithrandir> ok
<amitk> great
<jacob-laptop> amitk: other than commit template what else should i do?
<Mithrandir> jacob-laptop: I'm putting you up as responsible for cleaning up the patches so they are suitable for Ubuntu
<Mithrandir> jacob-laptop: ok?
<cfj> So again - Does Canonical need anything more from Intel as far as the core chipset patches ??  
<amitk> jacob-laptop: actually, _before_ the template, you need to cleanup whitespace. Run the patches through the scripts mentioned on the link above
<jacob-laptop> Mithrandir: ok. i will make sure patches follow the UbuntuKernelGuide
<Mithrandir> amitk: can you answer cfj's question?
<amitk> cfj: if nothing else is required for boot, then nothing else is required from Intel. BenC might be able to correct me here...
<Mithrandir> then I suggest we move on to UI and utilities; Bob?
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> a quick status from last week
<bspencer> perhaps you already discussed, sorry I was late
<Mithrandir> what's the status, do you need help for getting the specs through to approved?
<bspencer> we had a productive meeting with Nokia, which helped a lot
<Mithrandir> no, we didn't.
<bspencer> during the Desktop Architects meeting at googleplex
<bspencer> I think for Hildon framework, most packages are in repo and working
* agoliveira sighs remembering the food...
<bspencer> although I think the -dev packages aren't quite there.
<bspencer> at least I can't install hildon-desktop-dev yet 
<cfj> Mithrandir: I have to bail out of the meeting at the top of the hour.  I can include graphics in my email with the other topics. 
<agoliveira> bspencer: Right, being taken care.
<bspencer> agoliveira, said he would work on this a little this week, iirc
<Mithrandir> cfj: ok, thanks.
<bspencer> great.
<bspencer> wrt the specs, I am delinquent but will repent
<bspencer> I have the information for at least the main UI and have shared this with Ken and others, but need to update the site
<Mithrandir> ok, good.
<bspencer> utilities -- we should discuss
<bspencer> not sure exactly what that entails, aside from getting the control panel and status bar working
<bspencer> and writing some "how-to-create-a-plugin" documentation
<bspencer> but I will work on that too.
<agoliveira> bspencer: About those docs you have being writting with Moises. Are you going to put it up?
<bspencer> yes
<agoliveira> Cool
<bspencer> mainly they are just API description and a UML chart.
<bspencer> and whatever I think I've learned.
<Mithrandir> that's a good start
<bspencer> I try to get these in by Monday evening.
<bspencer> (not sure what the deadline is other than asap)
<bspencer> that's all I have, unless there are questions.
<Mithrandir> well, before we have the specs approved, we don't actually have a project plan, which is slightly problematic wrt an agreement between Canonical and Intel.
<Mithrandir> as well as being problematic since we don't know what we need to do and have the tools we need to use for plannig
<|moimart|> bspencer: it would be good to have those docs, because the releasing of our documentation is still open
<bspencer> Mithrandir, good point.
<bspencer> moimart, ok.
<cfj> We should discuss project plan -  A separate working meeting on that topic be good.
<Mithrandir> the specs are really the project plan
<Mithrandir> ok, Charlie has to go, so we'll skip the Graphics item on the agenda and move on to Build infrastructure.
<cfj> We need to talk about actually schedules.  When we expect the various items in the specs to be integrated.   At least have targets.
<tko> btw, we're slowly collecting ideas for hildon roadmap at http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/Roadmap .. if you have some ideas, especially if you're considering doing things yourself, feel free to add them there. we can then have a roadmap discussion at some point on hildon-list
<Mithrandir> cfj: ok, we can meet up early next week to discuss that?
<bspencer> tko, thanks for the heads-up.  we might like to propose something with our marquee (panel) and maybe an additional widget or two (off the top of my head).
<cfj> I have to do: Two last comments : HW Media Accel and USB Client should be owned by me. (Charlie Johnson) and yes we can meet early next week.
<Mithrandir> I don't really have anything to report wrt build infrastructure, I've been on vacation and therefore haven't prodded the relevant people.  Prodding will resume shortly and we should have a beginning archive by next week, I hope.
<cfj> s/do/go/
<Mithrandir> cfj: ok, thanks for your time. :-)
<agoliveira> Bye cfj
<Mithrandir> which brings us back to Bob again, on the GNOME components.
<|moimart|> bspencer: having open plugins is a very good idea as i told you
<Mithrandir> bspencer: the spec here is also empty; do you have a plan to share with us which can go into the spec?
<bspencer> moimart, sure.  
<bspencer> Mithrandir, the spec was intended to describe what parts of Gnome mobile we would want to include in the distribution
<bspencer> at this point I only know of the components that are needed by specific applications
<bspencer> not sure if just includig all gnome mobile is desirable
<bspencer> or if we take it an application at a time -- just including what they really need.
<bspencer> but that may be the work of someone creating a product, not the distribution
<bspencer> so I can write this spec quickly, just saying that it will have the gnome mobile components and include a picture from gnome.org/mobile
<tko> bspencer: I was just about to say that depends on whether you're producing a platform or product
<bspencer> comments? 
<bspencer> tko, agreed.
<bspencer> this brings up a bigger question which is who/when do we decide what is part of this distribution?
<Mithrandir> I've always had the impression of us being a platform more than just a product.
<agoliveira> ... and so being able to be multiple products, etc
<ian_brasil> Mithrandir: some of the recent feedback/e-mails to the list seem to back this up too
<Mithrandir> I'm happy by basically deferring the decision to GMAE and pick their components and whatever extras we need
<Mithrandir> does that sound good?
<bspencer> it is the best we can do today.
<bspencer> and we can adjust it as need dictates
<Mithrandir> ok, can you write up the spec with that as the basis?
<bspencer> yes
<Mithrandir> thanks
<Mithrandir> any more on GNOME components?  If not, we'll move on to documentation.
<Mithrandir> ian_brasil: the floor is yours. :-)
<ian_brasil> well i just wanted to find out about the best way to document things
<ian_brasil> if there is something planned or not
<ian_brasil> I have just been documenting things in an ad-hoc way so far 
<rusty> what kind of documentation are we talking about?
<ian_brasil> so some planning will help for sure
<ian_brasil> well for example there was some interest in pyphantom
<ian_brasil> so i documeted the source code
<ian_brasil> basically API documentation and user guides 
<ian_brasil> but more importantly how can it be done in a uniform way
<ian_brasil> using as much available infrastructure as possible
<Mithrandir> it sounds like something that should be taken upstream, so going with maemo prefers to use for API docs
<rusty> I can definitely see a bunch of ad-hoc documentation written making it hard for people to find what they are looking for
<rusty> like... what's up with this Samsung Q1 Ultra, what works, who is tackling what, etc.
<ian_brasil> rusty: well it is sort of like this now...i just write up what takes my fancy basically which is good for me but maybe not for the whole UME
<Mithrandir> yeah, though that's less about API docs and more about end-user docs, or developer docs
<agoliveira> end-user docs? Product docs?
<rusty> whatever the docs, i do recognizes from past projects that this could snow ball into a mass of random documents making it pretty unusable
<Mithrandir> yes, I think we want to make sure we avoid that
* ian_brasil nods vigorously
<rusty> ian_brasil, so are you thinking on the lines of a structured ubuntu-mobile guide?
<ian_brasil> well something like that yes
<Mithrandir> I say just go for it; what do you need from the rest of us?
<rusty> if we had that, then for the upstream API documentation we could at least have a standard way of linking to the upstream documentaion (be it gnome, maemo, etc)
<Mithrandir> sounds like a plan to me.
<Mithrandir> ian_brasil: agreed?  Can you write that up as a spec?
<ian_brasil> well....i would like to use the django comment system for building the actual docs
<ian_brasil> as it is so easy to get other peoples input
<ian_brasil> but some help with the structure as well
<ian_brasil> like what exactly to document
<Mithrandir> I'm not familiar with it.
<rusty> is it http://www.djangoproject.com/ ?
<ian_brasil> no the django book...i put something here http://proddingthe.net/ as an experiment
<ian_brasil> this is the django book code
<ian_brasil> and it allows you to comment on individual parts within a chapter
<Mithrandir> I suggest you raise it on the list and try to get people to contribute there; While I absolutely agree we need docs, I'm not sure what more we can get done in this meeting.
* agoliveira thinks next time we need a smaller agenda or bigger time slot :)
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: smaller agenda, hopefully
<ian_brasil> ok...i will write up something then
<Mithrandir> thanks
<Mithrandir> let's move on, then
<Mithrandir> we have a bunch of ownerless specs
<Mithrandir> this is obviously bad.
* bspencer hopes they won't become his...
<kwwii> as far as the UI stuff goes, I could help keep it up to date etc.
<Mithrandir>   - UI guide
<Mithrandir>   - Browser
<Mithrandir>   - Media player UI
<Mithrandir>   - Hardware media decoding
<Mithrandir>   - USB client
<Mithrandir>   - Development environment
<Mithrandir> are the ones
<bspencer> UI guide -- Bob/Ken
<bspencer> Browser -- Bob
<rusty> USB client -> c. Johnson
<bspencer> Media player -- Bob
<Mithrandir> we need an assignee who's responsible for implmentation, and we need a drafter who is responsible for writing the spec
<Mithrandir> they can be the same person.
<Mithrandir> hardware media decoding and usb client are Charlies, I noted that earlier, yes.
<kwwii> the UI guide part is kinda hard to decide on the implementation side, or?
<Mithrandir> yes, it doesn't have an implementation, but it still needs to be completed
<kwwii> but I'll sign up as drafter :-)
<Mithrandir> bspencer: you're both assignee and drafter on yours?
<bspencer> you can make me assignee and implementor for:  UI guide, Browser, Media Player UI.   (Or Ken the implementor for UI guide)
<bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, probably.  Though Ken can help too.  
<Mithrandir> of course, it's just who's responsible, it doesn't mean others can't chime in.
<agoliveira> Bob The (spec) Builder (sorry Bob, couldn't resist!) :)
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you take the development environment?
<bspencer> I'm fine with both assignments
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes, why not
<Mithrandir> thanks.
<Mithrandir> then we're at the end of the agenda: Goals for next week
<Mithrandir> I'd like to have a meeting in a week, if that works for people.
<agoliveira> Have the specs would be nice.
<Mithrandir> by then, I would like all specs to be written up and maybe not yet approved, but at least ready for approval
<rusty> I'll be flying on Thursday
<Mithrandir> ok, we can move it to Friday if that's better
<rusty> works for me
<rusty> i'll be irc'ing from the OLS floor
<agoliveira> Friday same time is ok for me too.
<kwwii> sounds fine
<Mithrandir> should work fine for me too
<Mithrandir> anybody have specs they don't think they'll have ready by the end of next week?
<bspencer> good for me
<rusty> I would really like to see all the init scripts in place such that you can boot a device that automatically startsup to the hildon desktop without having to manually do a buch of stuff
<bspencer> Mithrandir, I might not have all 7 done, but I'll work on them
<rusty> Mithrandir, I'm good for the image creation spec
<Mithrandir> bspencer: understood.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: it's better to have five done and two unstarted than seven mostly-done, IMO.
<bspencer> ok.
<Mithrandir> anybody got any more business?
<rusty> Will anyone else be at OLS next week?
<agoliveira> I ok.
<rusty> I'm on the hook to host a BOF about mobile stuff
* kwwii is off ...bye all
<Mithrandir> interesting; relay any interesting discussions back to us?
<rusty> the schedule is wrong.. it talks about a paper that Tariq and I were going to write
<amitk> rusty: what happened to the pm framework that intel was going to announce?
<Mithrandir> ok, I think we're done with today's business; adjourned.
<rusty> yeap, i'll report back any interesting stuff, and promote ubuntu-mobile
<Mithrandir> you're of course free to discuss more here later, but I have to grab some food before I die of hunger.
<amitk> Tariq mentioned it at UDS
<agoliveira> Bye all. I have to rush to the bank but I'll be back asap.
<ian_brasil> tchau
<bspencer> tchuss
<rusty> amitk, i don't know the latest status other then I know Tariq and Arjan have been shopping around the concepts some some initial design documentation to a bunch of individules
<rusty> trying to get some mindshare
<amitk> rusty: So nothing upcoming at OLS?
<amitk> or PM-summit before?
<rusty> well, Tariq had to cancel his trip at the last minute for personal reasons
<rusty> amitk, i need to ping Tariq, but he is on vacation right now
<amitk> right... 
* amitk is out of here now for a few hours
<rusty> question for the crowed... how do we see X starting on ubuntu-mobile?  On a normal desktop you have gdm (or whatever kde uses) that is launched by a startup script and handles starting the user session.  What do we want for an Ubuntu-Mobile device?
<bspencer> moimart, are your there?  i think I found my big
<bspencer> bug
<tko> direct login if there's only one user, login screen otherwise? or rule out multiuser cases?
<moimart> bspencer: im here
<moimart> bspencer: what was it?
<agoliveira> rusty: I'm with tko on that.
<rusty> this makes me think we need some kind of simple desktop manager (or whatever the right name is)
<bspencer> moimart, my code wasn't running
<bspencer> :-\
<moimart> oops :)
<moimart> what did you do for not getting it running?
<rusty> agoliveira, or... maybe something like this already exists?
<bspencer> now I see transparency and my panel, but it crashes about 1sec after display
<bspencer> I just got that and am trying to figure out the backtrace.
<moimart> cool
<moimart> tomorrow ill take a look at the code you sent me
<bspencer> very.  I'll send you new code tonight if I get stuck.
<moimart> ok even better :)
<agoliveira> rusty: It deppends on what you want. You can just auto-login to a default account and start the enviromment right away.
<rusty> agoliveira, and how do we do that?
<rusty> agoliveira, are you just suggesting writing a startup script that calls startx with a .xinitrc file in the user directory that launches the session elements?
<agoliveira> rusty: Well, I'm a little rusty (pun intended :) ) on that but back in the old days one could tap into inittab to do that.
<rusty> agoliveira, but... with inittab you were calling a display manager... not just directly starting X
<rusty> display manager... that's the term i was looking for before
<agoliveira> rusty: IIRC it wasn't that way before but, as I said, I don't know how this is done nowadays.
<rusty> in current ubuntu (at least in feisty and gutsy), you have a GNOME Display Manager init script
<rusty> in the past you had something like "x:5:once:/etc/X11/prefdm -nodaemon" in inittab
<rusty> where prefdm would just find the correct display manager
<agoliveira> rusty: Yes, GDM is there
<rusty> but i'm guessing gdm is a bit overkill for what we need
<agoliveira> rusty: exactly, just a startx of some form should suffice. 
<rusty> I'm tempted to just go an create a super simple display manager that for now is just a init script that sources stuff in a standard location (to allow other packages to add whatever), reads a config file (to get things like 'auto login bob), and then calls startx
<tko> gpe had a login screen of sorts.. no idea how reusable it might be
<agoliveira> rusty: I guess that would be ok.
<jacob-laptop> BenC, amitk, i am trying to tag the release for poulsbo patches, it gave me the following error, can you take a look?
<jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
<jacob-laptop> gpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available
<jacob-laptop> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available
<jacob-laptop> failed to sign the tag with GPG.
<jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
<jacob-laptop> gpg: skipped "jacob <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>": secret key not available
<jacob-laptop> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available
<jacob-laptop> failed to sign the tag with GPG.
<jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-keys jacob
<jacob-laptop> pub   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>
<jacob-laptop> sub   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> pub   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>
<jacob-laptop> sub   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-21
<tko> umm, you're missing the secret key
<tko> gpg --list-secret-keys
<jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ gpg --list-secret-keys
<jacob-laptop> /home/jacob/.gnupg/secring.gpg
<jacob-laptop> ------------------------------
<jacob-laptop> sec   1024D/DEF6F140 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>
<jacob-laptop> ssb   2048g/B2A1D012 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> sec   1024D/3192912B 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> uid                  jacob (public key) <jacob@putvin.dp.intel.com>
<jacob-laptop> ssb   2048g/A9EB4A9D 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> tko: does it look right?
<tko> other that the difference of " (public key)" can't really see a problem.. I don't know how git picks the key
<tko> you could try passing "-u 3192912B" to git-tag 
<jacob-laptop> tko: did you use "gpg --gen-key  " ?
<tko> I haven't used git with gp
<tko> g
<jacob-laptop> tko: it is in ubuntu kernel guide, it suggest tag the release for submitting patches
<jacob-laptop> ok, i used -u option in git tag and it works
<jacob-laptop> jacob@putvin:~/localDev/ubuntu/jpan9-git-tree$ git-tag -u jacob -s -m Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21  Ubuntu-2.6.22-6.21
<jacob-laptop> You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
<jacob-laptop> user: "jacob pan (public key) <jacob.jun.pan@intel.com>"
<jacob-laptop> 1024-bit DSA key, ID DEF6F140, created 2007-06-21
<jacob-laptop> tko: thanks
<tko> uhh.. stupid git.. it should know to skip the realname of the mail address IMO
<BenC> jacob-laptop: you don't tag releases
<BenC> jacob-laptop: we'll tag them when we do an upload
<BenC> jacob-laptop: tagging is for uploading to the archive...to submit patches, just commit them and send a pull request to kernel-team
<agoliveira> BIG FAT WARNING: There's a bug in the hildon-desktop package. If you install it on a real Gutsy, it will send your menus to heck. I just screwd up my notebook.
<stgraber> agoliveira: really ? When does that happen ?
<stgraber> I installed it on my gutsy test computer a minute ago and it seems to work
<agoliveira> stgraber: Just now. I have being using chroots so far and was all ok.
<agoliveira> stgraber:Well, I'll see later. Meeting now.
<matt_c> agoliveira: ahh I thought that might have been unrelated to ubuntu-mobile, thanks for the heads up :)
<agoliveira> matt_c: No it's bug in the hildon-desktop package. It's replacing the gnome menus. I'll fix that until tomorrow.
<matt_c> agoliveira: no problem at all, I was just checking it out inside a VM.
<cfj> Ben and/or Jacob: Did the patches get in??
<anode> newbie question: what's the best way to download the code and start playing with it?
<agoliveira> anode: For the source, launchpad.
<matt_c> anode: I was playing with it last night by downloading gutsy tribe 1, installing ubuntu-mobile and then running it over on a Xephyr session
* matt_c is, however, also a newb.
<agoliveira> anode: If you just want start and play, check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
<matt_c> Indeed, that's what I used after apt-get installing ubuntu-mobile
<anode> thanks agoliveira and matt_c, starting to make sense now. 
<anode> what's the main expected target hardware? Intel devices or nokia?
<anode> I have a nokia n800
<agoliveira> anode: For now, Intel LPIA
<jacob-laptop> Ben, cfj , i tagged and uploaded kernel git, I also sent an email to kernel-team for you to pull
<matt_c> I'm excited about running ubuntu-mobile on plain old x86 hardware.
<happycube> i can't wait to get something silverthorne based
<happycube> ^ 45nm pentium-m, 2w, 2500 dies/300mm wafer
<anode> so is anyone testing with a nokia n800?
<happycube> i don't think nokia releases enough info to do a fully independent build
<happycube> there are parts of the hw that are closed :(
<happycube> or *were*
<happycube> ^ can someone fact-check that?
<anode> happycube: which parts are closed? Or were?
<etrunko> happycube, anode: there is an independent initiative following the openmoko model
<happycube> sweet - website?
<happycube> i'd love to have an independent build on my 770
<etrunko> http://osmtc.indt.org/projects/mamona
<lucasr> etrunko, couldn't track be less ugly?
<etrunko> lucasr: don't think so
<lucasr> etrunko, :-)
<etrunko> it's just the default theme
<etrunko> :)
<etrunko> our designers are too busy atm
<lucasr> etrunko, everyone just uses this default theme
<lucasr> :-)
<etrunko> lucasr: heh
<etrunko> happycube: vivijim has blogged about a presentation he did this week. it's in planet maemo
<anode> I take it there are a lot of intel guys and gals around here?
<rusty> yeap... a few of us
<lucasr> this channel is getting really crowded
<happycube> i've been thinking about intel's 2008 lineup... this segment could really explode ;)
<happycube> esp if you count asus eee's and things like that...
<anode> so if anyone outside intel wants to contribute, what _available_ embedded hardware is there to run on ?
<matt_c> anode: an old Pentium laptop? :)
<rusty> the existing lineup of what vendors have called UMPC's
<anode> matt_c: my pockets are too small
<matt_c> heh
<anode> rusty: the "I'll try to run Vista if it kills me, or burns your hand" UMPCs. Though the idea was to use cool efficient linux to get away from those beasts....
<happycube> yeah
<happycube> they can probably be reprogrammed
<happycube> i hope amd can get something together for this space - we need the competition - but they won't and maybe even can't!
<rusty> the existing UMPC's are pretty bulky and the battery life sucks... but they help our for GUI / infrastructure development
<happycube> they're talking about an answer to santa rosa next year, lol... and of course no linux user would want it because they won't support linux anywhere near as well ;)
<matt_c> Via's new *-ITX is pretty small too.
<happycube> yeah
<happycube> i think via's closer... silverthorne screams "c7 killer"
<happycube> via should've gone to integrated north bridges a year ago... they have a nice small-footprint cpu and a huge nb by comparison
<agoliveira> I've heard some horror histories about linux on C7. Never got my hand one one tough.
<happycube> i haven't tried either
<matt_c> I have an old mini-itx that ran debian well
<happycube> i sooo wish via was selling mini-itx boards for $50-100
<happycube> when they first came out the boards were dirt cheap... but they never came down and the rest of the world did
<happycube> asus has a box with mobo+case+psu for $75 at 'egg
<happycube> (unfortunatly via cheaped on capacitors... epia-original had sanyo... epia-m had gsc... near 100% failure rate!)
<happycube> they got better eventually, but ouch.
<happycube> (re gsc... i don't think sanyo had a bad batch ;) )
<happycube> anyhow i'm looking forward to $200 laptops and $400-500 ultramobiles
<ppc> where can i find general architecure / sys design or something like about ubuntu mobile please ?
<ppc> hello
<anode> so is ubuntu-mobile definitely intel only or do nokia n800 owners have a place here ?
<etrunko> anode: i think we have a place here because they share (almost) the same infrastructure
<rusty> anode, the initial focus is on LPIA hardware, but the project is not exclusive to x86 architectures.... btw, wouldn't the first step be getting a ubuntu arm port?
<rusty> etrunko, that is true
<tko> putting money where the mouth is or something.. :)
<anode> seems to me that since the n800 is out there already a port should not be too hard
<_gpg_> got disconnecfed
<_gpg_> i was asking where can i find any syste/module designs or system architecure of ubuntu mobile
<_gpg_> i'm working on realtime embedded systems for automative systems and wanted to contribute to gnome mobile, the mailing list seems to be discontinued
<tko> _gpg_: which list?
<_gpg_> tko gnome for mobile device mobile-devel-list@gnome.org
<tko> oh, it's just quiet
<_gpg_> tko the latests one i read wasnt encouraging
<_gpg_> well
<_gpg_> good night
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-22
<xkyotox> hi
<agoliveira> Hello
<xkyotox> wazz up?
<agoliveira> sdame old, same old
<xkyotox> okay
<xkyotox> (sorry for my spelling) i am realy intrested in a ubuntu mobile=) have the phone been releaed witsh thay are planing the platforme for ?
<agoliveira> xkyotox: We are not focusing in phones right now but in bigger devices like webpads based on Intel's LPIA. After that we are going into other platforms.
<xkyotox> okay
<xkyotox> have to check that out
<xkyotox> owh.. i wass so excited for a ubuntu phone platforme
<xkyotox> OpenMoko mybe then =(
<matt_c> or an N800 with Gizmo :)
<Mithrandir> I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see phone functionality on MIDs soonish.
<xkyotox> N800 hu okay..
<matt_c> I'm just being obnoxious.  It's not the same as having a GSM phone or anything, but if you're bathed in WiFi all day it'll work using something like Gizmo.
<brinstar> hi, i have a samsung 'blackjack' phone, is it ever going to be possible to use linux on it?
<Mithrandir> no idea; maybe.
<brinstar> the wiki doesnt really say either way
<ian_brasil> ola...quick question...will there be a separate repository for UME
<brinstar> has anyone used a linux smartphone?
<brinstar> are they as customisable as usual linux distros?
<matt_c> brinstar: with the exception of OpenMoko all Linux "smartphones" tend to be just as locked down as a java featurephone.
<matt_c> At least that's what I know of the Moto ones
<brinstar> just looking at openmoko now, looks really cool
<matt_c> There are also some homebrew folks looking to put together their own hardware/software stack (google for SVHMPC) that might be worth looking at
<brinstar> the mobile companies are probably someone will find a way to hack them so you get free calls :)
<brinstar> probably afraid*
<ian_brasil> matt_c: http://bricolabs.info
<Mithrandir> ian_brasil: it will just be a different architecture, but live in the same archive as the normal Ubuntu packages.
<brinstar> ?? it mentions the NDS
<ian_brasil> Mithrandir: ok
<ian_brasil> Mithrandir: what is the name of the architecture?
<Mithrandir> lpia
<agoliveira> tko: Hi. Do you know if you keep matchbox in sync with upstream?
<tko> agoliveira: fairly close. I think we currently have an svn snapshot, but I'd need to check our svn and from Tapani
<amitk> jacob_ - ping
<agoliveira> tko: I would apreciate if you find me this information. I need to sync your matchbox with upstream to create a branch for us here. If you have done it already would be nice ;)
<tko> agoliveira: I can only check our svn.. it's a holiday weekend here so I can't catch our maintainer until Monday
<tko> matchbox-window-manager-20070619.tar.bz2
<tko> and no patches apparently
<agoliveira> tko: Fine
<agoliveira> tko: So you're using upstream directly?
<tko> seems so
<agoliveira> tko: Weird. I tought your matchbox was somewhat patched.
<tko> we might have occasional patches when we need some stuff faster than matthew likes to commit, or when (we think) we want some controversial stuff
<tko> yeah, I thought so too :)
<agoliveira> tko: Well, if your repository shows no patches it will be just perfect to me :) Anyway, I'll check it out later to see what happens.
<agoliveira> tko: Thanks
<agoliveira> Lunch time!
<agoliveira> tko: Really that's strange. I was checking matchbox at maemo's svn and there's a "debianizer" and a plain snapshot from upstream. Do you know, by any chance, if Maemo's changes were inetegrated upstream?
<tko> agoliveira: debianizer?
<agoliveira> tko: Just a directory with a bunch o debian-style packaging rules but forget what I asked, I just saw that yes.
<agoliveira> tko: Just in case I'll diff against upstream but looks like 1/2 my task is done already ;)
<agoliveira> Ok, it's just the other way around, your mainteiner, Tapani, did make a few changes but over very recent matchbox so we should be fine just using yours.
<agoliveira> I just wonder why he keeps it a a tar.gz...
<tko> agoliveira: our tar.gz is upstream snapshot + patches not upstream yet?
<tko> because it's convenient
<tko> handling all the patches separately is pita :)
<agoliveira> tko: If by snapshot + your patches you mean the modified files not source + diffs, yes. AFAICS, no patches of your side entered upstream, at least the ones on your svn.
<agoliveira> I mean not original sources + diffs
<tko> ick
<agoliveira> tko: Anyway, I would like to check that with Tapani monday.
<tko> good idea
<agoliveira> For now, I'll just create a separate branch on LP with your matchbox-window-manager and see what happens.
<agoliveira> and adjust the dependencies to use them of course.
<robr> amitk, what's up? i can try to raise jacob-laptop for you
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-23
<lyly> hello!
<bspencer> anyone here have dates for the London ubuntu sprint?
<Mithrandir> Monday July 9th to Friday July 13th
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-24
<bspencer> asac, are you around?  
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-16
<anon98sz> not quite the forum... but i am trying to create an initramfs for pxe booting.  i have done this in the past with gentoo, but their support is deprecated and just plain doesn't work anymore.  i tried to debootstrap an absolute minimal install, and it boots, but complains about the lack of a root= kernel commandline option
<lool> morning
<DebbieFoghorn> kyleN: yup
<kyleN> can you come over here, I need someone's eyes who can read Chinese.
<Fenario> repete: can you dial back in
<ian_brasil> hi...is there some way in ubuntu mobile to automatically mount removable discs like there is in gnome?
<aTOmicDuDe> ian_brasil: I think that's gnome-sedktop specific, ubuntu mobile relies on mobile-basic-flash
<ian_brasil> OK
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-17
<julo_> hi
<julo_> Will it be possible to install ubuntu-mobile on a regular intel PC or will it need to be a phone-like device ?
<persia> julo_: You can install it on a regular PC, as long as you have the right hardware.
<persia> It ought work on most x86, but no promised for anything other than A110 or Atom chips.
<persia> Of course the interface might be a little odd, as most machines don't have a touchscreen, or the target resolution.
<julo_> persia: well, I'm thinking of an X86 PC-like device with a compact flash IDE driver and a 7 inches touch-screen.
<persia> julo_: OK.  What's the "-like" part of that?
<julo_> persia: what I mean is that, apart from the odd screen, it is a PC. It just doesn't *look* like a PC.
<julo_> persia: oh, and the fact that it has a compact-flash IDE drive instead of a regular IDE hard drive.
<persia> julo_: Ah.  I was mostly asking about how "x86-like" it was.  Which processor?
<julo_> persia: it's an AMD Geode
<persia> julo_: Hmm.  I've not heard of anyone using an lpia install on a Geode.  Please let us know if it works.
<julo_> OK, I'll do
<persia> julo_: Note that there are some hacks involved.  Installing i386 (which is known to work on a Geode) may not generate the right environment.  For best results, try an install boot off the image on cdimages.ubuntu.com
<HappyCamp> tonyespy: The Pepperpad is back :)  http://aving.net/usa/news/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=89608&C_Code=01&SP_Num=175&mn_name=exhi
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: yea, don't think they're shipping it yet... and especially don't know what flavor or Linux; it for sure isn't the old Pepper Java code-base!
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: you in MA now?
<HappyCamp> I am, out here in Westford
<HappyCamp> How was Easter Europe?
<HappyCamp> s/Easter/Eastern/
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: fun
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: we should do lunch sometime: http://www.flatbreadcompany.com/2007Bedford.htm
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: maybe next week sometime?
<HappyCamp> Sounds good.  I have a conference to go to this week in Boston.
<HappyCamp> So next week would be great :)
<tonyespy> HappyCamp: cool, I'll ping you early next week and we can figure out when...  gotta run.
<HappyCamp> Sounds good.  Later.
<lool> HappyCamp: You're working from RedHat or for RedHat? :)
<lool> or both?
<lool> HappyCamp: The pizza place Tony mentionned rocks BTW
<amitk_> it does look good, we should do a dinner there on this trip
<lool> amitk_: it's all organic food, bread, sauces, condiments etc.
<HappyCamp> lool: At :)
<HappyCamp> For Intel
<HappyCamp> Now I'm looking forward to pizza :)
<trip_work> what is UME doing for bluetooth?
<trip_work> will there be handsfree by default?
<lool> inuka_: Not sure you got my private msg; I didn't get your answer, could be that you're not registered on freenode?
<lool> inuka_: nickserv says you didn't register until two days ago, so i'd guess this might explain why I didn't get your answer
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-18
<lool> morningt
<asac> lool: where is the currentn xulrunner package for ume?
<asac> its not in PPA anymore :) ... thats for sure
<lool> asac: Uh?
<lool> asac: Show files  xulrunner-1.9 - 1.9~rc1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~8.04.2+ume1  is in ppa
<asac> ah, multiple ppa pages ;)
<lool> asac: Not here
<lool> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive shows it at the bottom
<lool> asac: Perhaps since launchpad upgrade? ;)
<asac> most likely :)
<asac> lool: you said that PPA is supposed to be like -proposed for mobile in the near future. is that the case now?
<lool> asac: It is the case, yes
<lool> asac: So you can upload to ppa and then ask for testing and then I promote it to archive
<asac> cool
<ian_brasil> hey..we are writing some plug-ins here and i have a question
<ian_brasil> what is the best way to show icons in pygtk
<ian_brasil> to stop hard coded paths like
<ian_brasil> /usr/share/rodrigo-plugins/power-applet/icon-shutdown-16x16.png
<lool> ian_brasil: append the pathname to the icon theme search path and use gtk_icon_theme_lookup
<lool> ian_brasil: it.lookup_icon("totem", 0, 0)
<lool> ian_brasil: with it = gtk.icon_theme_get_default()
<ian_brasil> lool: thx...testing now
<lool> ian_brasil: Second arg is size BTW
<lool> And last one flags (e.g. stock or not, svg or not etc.)
<ian_brasil> lool: woo hoo...it works, thx
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:28. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:28.
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:31. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> [TOPIC]
<MootBot> New Topic:  
<davidm> [TOPIC] test
<MootBot> New Topic:  test 
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:31.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-19
<Linds> Hello?
<persia> Linds: Hi!
<lool> davidm: I see you tested MootBot overnight; I didn't send you last logs as MootBot didn't give me any URL anymore after last meetings, sorry about that
<lool> davidm: Are you chairing the meeting today?
<davidm> lool, I'll need you to chair, I'm on another ARM call
<davidm> I have the URL where mootbot has logs but they are not updated real time.....
<lool> aha
<lool> davmor2: I heard rumors that davidm might hand you a KVM image
<davmor2> cool :)
<davidm> in a bit once I sort out ssh keys and off managers call
<davmor2> davidm: cool :)
<davidm> It's at least 1.5 hours before I can even start on sorting out my key issue
<davmor2> np's
<lool> davidm: No hurry on the kvm image :)
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:03. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Hi everybody
<lool> I hope everybody is doing fine
<lool> Quite rainy here I must say
<lool> So hmm I'm contemplating the list of action items from last week, let me process them
<agoliveira> lool: Quite cold here :)
<lool> Looks like we have nothing to comment on from last week
<lool> agoliveira: Ah sucks to be in southern hemisphere doesn't it?
<lool> Well at least right now
 * GrueMaster is finally drying out from the rain.
<lool> I'm "scrolling down" to the list of items for this week
<agoliveira> lool: Well, cold for me is 17Â°C
<agoliveira> :)
<lool> I can't really believe by eyes, it seems we wouldn't have anything to discuss today
<lool> Must be me being MiMed
<lool> Let me confirm this with the crowd: any topic for today?
<lool> Anyone would like to discuss anything (related to UME) in today's meeting?
<cgregan> lool: I have update from last week
<GrueMaster> What's the RC status?
<cgregan> Talked to Gary in Marketing
<cgregan> Punted all that stuff to davidm
<lool> cgregan: Ah, didn't see your action item in the wiki
<lool> cgregan: Cool
<lool> cgregan: Gary or gerry?
<davidm> I'm on it, 
<davidm> gerry
<cgregan> Gerry
<cgregan> yeah
<lool> I had the opposite confusion in the past, I feel your pain
 * lool hugs tremolux 
<davidm> we will do a blog entry when we are completely sorted out
<lool> GrueMaster: ^
<GrueMaster> ok
<lool> GrueMaster: Do subscribe to davidm's blog, and you should be the first to know about it
<davidm> lool, kernel and image all at correct graphics release
<lool> Yes, everything in place
<lool> In fact everything except kernel is in place since 2 days at least, but kernel was just QA-ed and published
<davidm> http://blog.canonical.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://blog.canonical.com/ 
<davidm> will have the blog entry when ready
<GrueMaster> ok
<lool> Wow /me sees Mysequel switching to bzr
<lool> Can't believe moblin opted for git  :-P
<cgregan> I will be pushing a QA mobile blog up to planet as well
<davidm> Sorry about joining late other call was canceled late
<lool> So, it looks like we handled that marketing topic from cgregan 
<lool> Any other open for today?
<cgregan> I'd like to take a moment to thank davmor2 for all his help
<lool> Let's group-hug him
 * lool groups-hug davidm 
<lool> argh
 * lool groups-hug davmor2 
<lool> But davidm deserved a good hug too
<GrueMaster> I could probably guess why moblin is on git, but not publicly.  :)
<agoliveira> lool: Brown nose! :)
<davmor2> :)
 * cgregan groups-hug davmor2
 * davidm  groups-hug davmor2
 * agoliveira gï»¿roups-hug davmor2
<lool> Well another good thing done today
<lool> It sounds like we'll soon adjourn this meeting then
<lool> But before that, I need to take away some more seconds of your time
<lool> To wish you a very nice week
<lool> Thanks everybody for attending
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:11.
<cgregan> thanks lool
<davmor2> Thanks guys glad to of helped :)
<lool> 11:11, someone please replace MootBot's batteries
<persia> Nice quick meeting :)
<grndslm> woot! woot!  how many devices do you guys know of that will will be released with ubuntu mobile?  other than the Gigabyte M528
<persia> grndslm: There's a lot of buzz.  Personally I expect most HW companies to end up with some customised solution based on Ubuntu, rather than Ubuntu Mobile itself.
<grndslm> really?  so ubuntu mobile will just fade away after a year or so?
<grndslm> i was getting really excited about that M528, or maybe an Android phone whenever they're released... maybe even an unlocked 3G iPhone to use as everything BUT a phone
<grndslm> i've got a great phone / service.... but i want an MID with decent screen for web browsing & other stuff
<persia> Certainly not fade away.  We're looking to build something great.  On the other hand, I don't expect people to ship it vanilla.  Think about all the variations on Windows CE that are out there, with different apps, etc.  I expect something similar to that: the same core, and different added bits for market differentiation.
<grndslm> so, no other devices with ubuntu mobile you guys know of other than M528, then??
<grndslm> i'm looking to spend some this dough within the next month, or two at the latest
<grndslm> all this $$ is burning a hole in my pocket
<persia> grndslm: I have to admit I'm not really looking at new products that ship Ubuntu-Mobile any further than a couple mobile RSS feeds.  They may be out there.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-20
<davmor2> davidm: ping
<cgregan> davmor2 seems to be having a problem with the VM
<cgregan> persia: do you have a second?
<persia> cgregan: Sure, but not any KVM-compatible hardware :)
<persia> What seems to be the issue?
<stgraber> is that : ume-8.04-kvm.tar.gz ? if yes I'm trying it now
<cgregan> that's alright...he says a bunch of lpia missing packages scroll by during boot
<persia> stgraber: It is.  Thanks.
<persia> missing packages during boot?  That doesn't sound right.
<davmor2> persia: I got the hardware :) I'm looking at the kvm image from the cdimages server and it's broken :)
<persia> davmor2: Do the errors show in dmesg once boot is complete, or doesn't it boot?
<davmor2> I'll check dmesg I was just about to go through the logs
<stgraber> booted too fast to see anything but dmesg doesn't show any error here
<persia> stgraber: How about /var/log/syslog or /var/log/messages?
<stgraber> nothing in syslog either
<stgraber> oh yes, I see what davmor2 had
<stgraber> complaining about modules.dep missing
<persia> pastebin?
<stgraber> doesn't appear in any of the log files
<stgraber> I'll try to get a screenshot but that image boots way too fast :)
 * persia misses console.log, and wonders if anyone knows how to enable it
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/ume1.png
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/ume2.png
<stgraber> missing symbol in grub and the modules.dep thing
<persia> OK.  ume1.png means that you aren't recovering from a suspend, and can safely be ignored.
<stgraber> ume2.png is maybe just the initrd being not in sync
<persia> ume2.png looks like an annoying side-effect of some of the choices made to reduce boot time, but may not cause issues.  Do the images work, except for that noise?
<stgraber> yep seems to work fine, I just did a : update-initramfs -u to see if that solves the modules.dep one
<persia> stgraber: I think the initramfs is in sync.  Try upgrading the kernel, and see if it goes away.
<persia> Argh!  That's frustrating.
<davmor2> seems to be although it thinks there are a 101 text editors non of which are installed and the one that is it doesn't want to use :)
<persia> davmor2: Where does it show that?
<davmor2> no sound either which is weird
<davmor2> persia: right click on on a log file and select open with
<stgraber> why is 2.6.24-16 installed ? I have both -16 and -19 here
<davmor2> mousepad seems to be the only thing not listed
<stgraber> persia: same result after kernel upgrade ... modules.dep isn't copied in the initrd, I wonder why ...
<persia> davmor2: You've found one of the central inconsistencies between gpe and moblin.  gpe sees all the apps installed, and moblin only those specially recognised.  Not all moblin apps are registered as file handlers.
<persia> stgraber: I'm not sure.
<davmor2> Yay!
<stgraber> persia: I'm checking the content of initrd.gz now
<stgraber> persia: /lib/modules/2.6.24-19-lpia only contains the kernel/ directory
<stgraber> persia: none of the modules.* files are there
<persia> stgraber: My understanding was that is the result of a choice to build the drivers into the kernel, rather than as modules to increase boot time.  Currently there are very few supported lpia systems, so it's mostly safe to do this, and reduces boot time.
<persia> As the number of supported systems grows, this may no longer be the right choice.  I've heard reports of some lpia systems on which this kernel doesn't work.
<davmor2> the messages don't appear on the version I built and I got sound on mine too
<stgraber> some modules are there so modules.dep should be there too
 * persia apologises for redundancy, but it's a little late here :)
<stgraber> I count 197 .ko in the initrd
<persia> davmor2: Have you tried a recent rebuild with the latest ubuntu-virtual-builder?  It may be a bug there.
<stgraber> so not everything is in the kernel it seems
<davmor2> persia: no
<persia> Hmm.  Maybe I don't have the right understanding then (my commentary is based more on hearsay than an understanding of the kernel)
<davmor2> persia: is it just a case of bzr pull in the simple-image-builder directory and I'll try it.
<persia> davmor2: Ought be, although the name of the project changed :)  let me know if you need a branch reference.
<davmor2> np's
<davmor2> persia: says http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mvo/ubuntu-mobile/simple-image-builder/ no revisions to pull
<persia> davmor2: https://code.launchpad.net/~virtual-mobile-builder/virtual-mobile-builder/trunk
<persia> bzr branch lp:~virtual-mobile-builder/virtual-mobile-builder/trunk
<davmor2> permission denied
<persia> davmor2: bzr lp-login $(LP-USERNAME)
<davmor2> Permission denied (publickey).
<davmor2> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
<persia> Annoying.  Works for me, but I'm a member of that team.
<persia> Could someone else try branching that code repo?
<stgraber> Branched 23 revision(s).
<persia> That seems right.
<davmor2> grrrrrr
<davmor2> Launchpad for me hasn't been right since I merged accounts :(
<lool> davmor2: Your ssh key is probably out of date
<lool> davmor2: Did you update it after the ssh security hole?
<lool> davmor2: Do you see your ssh key on launchpad?
<davmor2> lool yes
<lool> davmor2: Is it visible to your ssh?
<lool> davmor2: Check that you don't have a special launchpad config in .ssh/config
<lool> That your key is accessible to your ssh and that it's the same as the one on launchpad
<lool> Check the permissions of your ssh key
<lool> davmor2: Anyway, you can use http:// instead :)
<lool> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/...
<davmor2> lool: realised what I'd done wrong with sshkey to get the bzr branch now :) 
<lool> davmor2: Cool
<davmor2> yes I deleted the wrong friggin' file by accident So I created a new key up loaded it to launchpad and backed it up this time :)
<davmor2> lool: I got my image to work better than the one on cdimages I still got issues with the kernel but I got sound
<davmor2> lool:  I used this line  to create the image sudo ./simple-mobile-builder --platform menlow-lpia-ume which seems to work better than just running the script
<lool> davidm: It is better; we should update the instructions
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-21
<davidm> lool, OK that makes sense, I guess it means making a new image and having stevenk upload it too.
<persia> IF a new image is made, could update-initramfs -u be run to avoid the modules.dep warnings at boot time?
<persia> AnAnt: So, Ubuntu Mobile is an OS, but not really for phones.
<AnAnt> persia: I didn't know of this channel, sorry
<persia> Some of the parts that are missing are things like dialing applications.
<persia> Speaking as someone who has a "Internet Mobile Tool" from sharp (not running Ubuntu Mobile), I say that not having a easy interface for dialing is a huge shortfall in a phone.
<persia> Now there are a couple "phones" that might run Ubuntu Mobile, in that they are advertised as Atom processors, but they are large, and most aren't in shops yet, and it wouldn't be a very convenient phone.
<persia> In terms of Phone OS's based on Linux, I think OpenMoko is likely the most mature, although there are some Qtopia phone apps that a few companies sell.
<persia> There's also a bunch of relatively closed linux phones, but those aren't as much fun (Panasonic has several)
<AnAnt> closed linux phones ?
<persia> Well, open kernel, closed apps, not easy to hack.
<AnAnt> Qtopia is a phone ?
<persia> No, it's TrollTech's mobile stack.
<AnAnt> oh, application platform
<AnAnt> so, no phones yet running OpenMoko ?
<persia> I'm not sure, at least not sold here.
<suihkulokki> AnAnt: for example, the recent motorola linux phones: http://wiki.openezx.org/MotoMAGX_Security
<AnAnt> are there plans for Ubuntu Mobile to target cell phones ?
<persia> AnAnt: No, although there's nothing that says there won't be another Ubuntu derivative that does.
<persia> Ubuntu Mobile is more about handhelds.  Some people call these "Mobile Tools", some people call these "Mobile Internet Devices", and the really old ones were called "Palmtops".
<AnAnt> ok
<lool> davidm: Sorry, I pinged you instead of davmor2
<lool> persia: I'm not sure, doesn't it come from /etc/initramfs/modules?
<persia> lool: It should, but the last image didn't have it, so there were boot errors.  stgraber reported that running `update-initramfs -u` in a bare image fixed it.
<stgraber_> nope didn't fix it, I tried that though
<persia> stgraber_: Oh.  Sorry.  I thought it did fix it from what you said.  Hrm.
<stgraber_> modules.dep aren't copied to the initrd so you still get the error message :(
<ogra> <persia> IF a new image is made, could update-initramfs -u be run to avoid the modules.dep warnings at boot time?
<ogra> persia, no, you need to handle all the hardcoded modprobe calls 
<ogra> we need a NO_MODULES=True or something in initramfs.conf, so we can add if or case statements in the code so they get not executed
<ogra> the errors you see are likely all from such hardcoded cases
<persia> ogra: But there are apparently 197 kernel modules present.  Do we really want NO_MODULES=True?
<ogra> we apparently dont use any modules in the initramfs
<ogra> they are still present in / after mounting the rootfs and will be used then
<ogra> (withur modules.dep they wont load anyway, NO_MODULES=True would just be a consmetical fix to activate wrappers for the hardcoded calls)
<ogra> *without
<ogra> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local has cals for loop and the filesystem ... /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions forcefully tries to load i8042 and atkbd ... /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/usplash acually tries the same again 
<ogra> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/all_generic_ide tries to load ata_generic and /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/framebuffer loads fbcon
<ogra> if you wrap these clls the boot will be quiet
<ogra> *calls
<ogra> (there might be more i missed though, thats just a simple grep modprobe on the initramfs scripts)
<ogra> as i understood amit we have the modules we need compiled into the kernel now
<ogra> so all these cals are moot
<ogra> *calls
<persia> Ah.  OK.  I see it now.  Thanks for the detailed explanation.
<persia> That's more hacking than I think has value for the Hardy final VM image, but it might make sense if the intrepid kernel is also to have such a model.
<ogra> well, i wouldnt do that model at all 
<persia> On the other hand, I expect there will be a wider variety of supported devices for intrepid, so it may be that we'll want those calls back again.
<ogra> just keep the modules, and have a huge blacklist from which you only exclude the ones you actually need would be my variant
<persia> Hmm.  I guess, although I don't prefer board-specific solutions.
<ogra> and this blacklist can be generated based on image build profiles for specific devices ... if you dont have critical boot time constraints the blacklist wont be used (for a totally eneric image that works everywhere)
<ogra> *generic
<ogra> so what we built would be the generic image and a tool to maintin the blacklists .... the USG guys then could generate device specific images in an identical way
<persia> Maybe module loading could be two-stage?  Have a base set in initramfs for the key bits (e.g. disk), and then load others as required as the normal userspace is coming up.  One rarely needs the keyboard enabled prior to X (although it's nice for debugging(
<ogra> that two stage thin is exactly what we do atm :)
<ogra> and thats why you see the modules.dep errors 
<persia> In that case, why does the modules list affect boot time?  Maybe our measurement isn't of the right metric.
<ogra> because there are still scripts forcing the call of modprobe :)
<ogra> and the first thing modprobe does is to look up the module deps in modules.dep ;)
<persia> OK.  I'm understanding then.
<ogra> whi doesnt exist 
<persia> And you think it's better to blacklist in initramfs rather than looking at a generic solution?
<persia> I'd think a more generic model would have positive impact on boot speed for other applications as well (desktop, server, etc.)
<ogra> well, what other generic solution would be there part from using monolithic kernels
<persia> I thought you didn't like the two-stage module loading model.
<ogra> we can have full monolithic, half monolithic as we do now (initramfs has no modules, userspace has) or use the full odule driven approach
<persia> Ah.  I see.
<ogra> i would go with the full module driven way
<ogra> as we do in the main distro 
<persia> And just put in a blacklist if there is known target hardware.
<ogra> but maintain blacklists instead of whitelists ... the blacklisted modules wont be attempted to be loaded ....
<ogra> if you work with whitelists i think the attepts will be made
<ogra> the blacklisting way saves you FS access time
<persia> Hmm.  OK.  What about pluggable device support?  That oughtn't be on the blacklist, but isn't likely needed until userspace.
<ogra> but i have to look deeper into that to make sure my assumptions arent wrong here
<ogra> i just noticed that blacklisting seemed faster in the past
<ogra> rightt, really only have the modules used in initramfs that are needed for bare booting
<ogra> then let the userspace handle the whole rest
<ogra> what you need will be the device specific frambuffer, all you need to get to the rootfs and thats it
<persia> So there needs to be something in update-initramfs that restricts the copied module set?
<ogra> likely not more than three four modules
<persia> Well, depends on the hardware.  I'd likely want more in my workstation.
<ogra> ah, weell, less modules wil make the uncompressing faster
<ogra> but we can have all modules in the initramfs 
<ogra> just not load them or make atempts to do so
<ogra> you run UME or UNR on your workstation ? 
<persia> This would be a different blacklist in initramfs than in userspace?
<ogra> exactly
<ogra> that functionallity is already there
<ogra> we just need to use it
<persia> I don't run UME on my workstation, but if this is actually a sane way to reduce boot time, it would be useful there.
<persia> Also, I expect a wide variety of UME hardware to be available after the intrepid release, so prefer something generic.
<ogra> well, the profile mode (not sure you know it) should get some enhancement to handle modules 
<ogra> that would be appropriate
<persia> I don't know it.  Is this "kernel profiling"?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> fliesystem access profiling
<ogra> it generates the readahead lists in a device specific way
<ogra> its a bootoption, boot your workstation with it
<persia> Ah.  That's Keybuk's new readahead replacement plan?
<ogra> it will be faster on the subsequent boots until you install new software
<ogra> no, Keyuk wants to replace readahead completely by prefetch
<ogra> but prefetch needs some massive changes
<ogra> not sure that will happen in time fo intrepid
<ogra> and readahead has the disadvantage of not being able to andle stacked filesystems
<ogra> i.e. unionfs
<ogra> i havent tested with aufs yet which wil be what intrepid uses as unionfs replacement
<persia> Right, and we like stacked filesystems because of compression.
<ogra> right
<ogra> i heard good things about aufs though
<ogra> but hanvent played with it myself 
<ogra> (in the readahead+unionfs setup the unionfs module oopsed, it wasnt readahead that broke ;) )
<ogra> so there are chances it could work with aufs
<ogra> and readahead is actually speeding up things a lot
<persia> Perhaps.  Looking at upstream seems to indicate that aufs oughtn't be used.
<ogra> ... if it works :)
<ogra> which upstream ? 
<ogra> kernel.org ?
 * persia needs to re-profile the workstation for both initial boot and login
<persia> aufs.sourceforge.net
<persia> Might just be extra modesty though
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> unionfs isnt really maintained
<ogra> its a UNI project 
<persia> I think aufs as well, but more actively so.
<ogra> so you dont really have people jumping at bugs
<ogra> right
<ogra> i think that was the initial reason for aufs
<ogra> unionfs was always rather a proof of concept
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-22
<hitsuji> Any one here, I have a possible problem when attempting to install ubuntu-mobile
<hitsuji> installing package ubuntu-mobiles gives error that gpe-clock has a dependancy on gpe-announcer, however gpe-announcer does not seem to exist but gpe-announce does, is this a typo in the package desc?
<maxja> Ã¦Ã®Ã¹Ã«Ã¼
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-15
<ian_brasil> i have a custom theme and launcher ..i ran gtkperf test on an acer aspire with first a XFCE base and cusom launcher/theme and then the default UNR with custom theme/launcher
<ian_brasil> the GtkDrawingArea - Text takes 12 seconds longer on XFCE than i386 ..any idea why this might be?
<ian_brasil> maybe i need to ask in #xfce
<lamalex> anyone around who hsa familiarity with the window picker applet code?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-16
<mib_agzpokd7> On which handsets can we use Ubuntu Mobile?
<mib_agzpokd7> HTC ones?
<playya> not on my freerunner :(
<plars> hey, general question on wiki namespace... is the MobileAndEmbedded stuff deprecated in favor of MobileTeam now? or are they for two separate purposes?  Can someone enlighten me?
<lool> plars: I think we stopped using MobileAndEmbedded some time ago; that used to be for the "UME" project; the MobileTeam stuff is more recent, but I think the intent was to be specific to the mobile team
<lool> So if you have stuff to document, try to put it by topics (e.g. /ARM or /UNR, but not /MobileTeam/Foo)
<plars> lool: ok, thanks
<lool> And if you feel like cleaning up, do feel free  :)
<lool> (Do use redirects when renaming a page though)
<plars> lool: specifically, I was going to put up a page about bootchart testing on UNR, and to store results, so I'll just start a section under UNR for that
<lool> I think that's best; unless you feel like starting a Bootcharts section with an UNR specific bootchart   ;-)
<plars> lool: I thought about just adding to that, but I worry that it might just make it more difficult to pick apart which was UNR, and which was desktop, etc... later on.  This makes it more simple
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-17
<ExMIB> hi all
<ExMIB> who use samsung witu
<ExMIB> i need a help, please (
<ExMIB> please, help me
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-18
<ian_brasil> naormal ubuntu on an eeepc is very quick even with compiz but on UNR it is slow..the mouse even judders..any ideas why?..maube it is clutter?
<plars> ian_brasil: this is with jaunty?
<plars> ian_brasil: on eee900, and 700 too I think, there is a bug with the video driver
<plars> ian_brasil: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/349314 has a link to a kernel .deb from apw that contains the fix
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 349314 in linux "Slow performance and tiling issues on i915" [Low,In progress]
<ian_brasil> plars: thx
<ian_brasil> just ran gtk performance tests on a theme i made on both  unr 344,51s and lxde 194.31s
<ramaddan> hi, did the meeting start?
<ogra_> yes
<ramaddan> I'm new to this, and I was trying to add a new spec to the roadmap, but did not exactly know how to go about it
<ogra_> in #ubuntu-meeting
<ramaddan> oops, ok, will go there
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-19
<metalfan_> hi
<metalfan_> ive created a bug report one or two weeks ago, but if i do search for reporter "julius-junghans" i dont get any results?
<metalfan_> where did the bug went?
<lool> metalfan_: You should have gotten a bug number with it
<metalfan_> well, i did not write it down
<metalfan_> should i have been notified via email about progress?
<metalfan_> im sure i created the bug because loic minier asked me to attach some lspci information, which i did
<lool> metalfan_: Yes, you should have received email
<lool> metalfan_: You can search all bugs associated with your launchpad account
<metalfan_> lool, i probably did, whats the options name?
<lool> metalfan_: Just go to your profile and click bugs
<metalfan_> THX
<metalfan_> i did find my bug, finally :)
<metalfan_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/387127
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387127 in ubuntu-mobile "poulsbo video not working (fit-pc2/intrepid)" [Undecided,New]
<metalfan_> now even the search for poulsbo works, weird
<lool> metalfan_: Ping StevenK here when he's awake, I don't do much Poulsbo; I only checked your PCI id is recognized, and I believe it is
<ian_brasil> metalfan: i spoke with StevenK about this
<ian_brasil> apparently it is not working on Jaunty but Intrepid should be fine
<ian_brasil> did you try the ubuntu mobile ppa?
<metalfan_> ian_brasil, its all from the mobile ppa
<metalfan_> intrepid was 8.10?
<ian_brasil> yes 
<metalfan_> i did try 8.10, but will of course do it again. is Xorg.0.log.old enough information or should i post something else?
<metalfan_> ah...my fault
<metalfan_> the bug is about the intrepid installation. got confused
<metalfan_> brb
<ian_brasil> metalfan: i would wait..StevenK said he would upload the pouslbo bits soon ..he has a lot on his plate i imagine
<metalfan_> ok, what bits would that be?
<metalfan_> ian_brasil, as i said before i tested it on intrepid, just to make that clear
<metalfan_> ian_brasil, and it looked more like a hangup as if something was missing
<metalfan_> StevenK, you probably read this one:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/387127    just dont know what todo :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 387127 in ubuntu-mobile "poulsbo video not working (fit-pc2/intrepid)" [Undecided,New]
<StevenK> metalfan_: I was wondering if you're using the default kernel, or something else?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-20
<metalfan_> StevenK, default
<metalfan_> StevenK, its a fresh installation
<metalfan_> StevenK, will be back in a few hours
<AD-N770> Is this the right channel to ask about ubuntu UME edition ?
<AD-N770> I would like to know if it's possible create UME image based on i386 packages instead of lpia
<AD-N770> I'm going to run it in a pentium mobile edition and I would like to use the i386 repositories instead of lpia ones
<AD-N770> but UME more or less fits my needs
<AD-N770> the device where I'm going to run it have a touch screen panel
<AD-N770> I succeeded installing jaunty ume (lpia) on it but I would like to create my own derived image
<AD-N770> could you point me if there's some info somewhere about how to do that ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-06-21
<holstein> is there an argument to pass to not use maximus?
<holstein> app --no-maximux or something?
<holstein> is there an argument to pass to not use maximus?
<holstein> app --no-maximux or something?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-06-23
<holstein> is there an argument to pass to not use maximus?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-06-24
<jussi> lool: ping
<GrueMaster> rsavoye: ping.  I am looking at the specs of your netbook.  It is via based.  Not sure if UNE was tested on that.  It is mainly geared for Intel Atom based netbooks.
<GrueMaster> Which version are you trying to run?
<rsavoye> yes, via c7 with unichrome
<rsavoye> maverick
<GrueMaster> Maverick is still alpha.  Does Lucid work?
<rsavoye> not critical, but was trying to bring this old GoS netbook back to life
<rsavoye> I'll try lucid next
<rsavoye> I just figured it's good to test maverick first :-)
<GrueMaster> Maverick is still undergoing major changes.  Alpha 2 is next week.  It won't start to settle until at least alpha 3.
<GrueMaster> It is good that you are testing it though.
<rsavoye> yeah, no pain, no gain. :-) I have alpha1 running on a desktop already anyway
<GrueMaster> If you are willing, I'd like to suggest that you go to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com and when alpha 2 comes out, pull down the UNE edition and report some test results.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-06-26
<lool> jussi: pong
<jussi> lool: would you mind adding the UbuntuIrcCouncil to the access list in here? (+votirRAsf)
<jussi> In anycase, Im running out, so Ill talk about it later
<lool> jussi: Apparently, I'm not authorized to run this command
<lool> jussi: Some guy apparently has +F, I'm not sure why
<lool> I thought Mithrandir had registered it, and then passed rights to me
