#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-06
<tjagoda> Apparently
<tjagoda> 3 million downloads per day from appworld now
<tjagoda> Not as shabby as the stats once were
<jrwren> snap-l: Windows Phone 7
<snap-l> jrwren: Hell no
<tjagoda> He said that just to troll =P
 * tjagoda writes off WIndows phone like other people write off Blackberry 
<jrwren> i write off win phone too.
<jrwren> but if iphone is a no, and android is a no... I think winphone is 3rd.
<jrwren> i sure as hell wouldn't want a BB
<rick_h> jrwren: I want to map() over a list and if any returns false come back with a single false value, what is the name of the thing I'm thinking of?
<jrwren> but if none are false you want the result to be the list of newly built things?
<rick_h> no, basically True
<rick_h> have a list of checks, want to process and see if anything comes up false else we're golden
<jrwren> i only know the .net terminology :(
<jrwren> All()
<rick_h> I think I'll just do it via reduce() and go there
<rick_h> jrwren: ah, that makes sense
<jrwren> it is a reduce
<jrwren> so that is a good place to go
<rick_h> yea, don't think YUI has a built in for it
<jrwren> prolly not
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, the Y.Array stuff has some "truthy" checks but it's more "process until you get a non-truthy then quit procoessing"
<rick_h> ok, well this is depressing: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/03/the-fireplace-delusion-a-metaphor-for-religious-belief.html
<snap-l> rick_h: Yep, the human race has a lot of gree grees
<snap-l> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grigri
<jrwren> its a strawman.
<jrwren> "obvious harm to our health and environment" is a load of b.s.
<jrwren> what harm to either of those?
<jrwren> show me hte science for that.
<jrwren> there is none.
<jrwren> but it is nice to hear an athiest talking about how religeous athiests can be.
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, there is something to be said for not maintaining something burning in your house
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> the gas at my stove burns
<jrwren> and in my furnace
<jrwren> i maintain them both regularly
<jrwren> the writer is an asshole.
<snap-l> No, he's creating a strawman
<jrwren> yes, but i don't like his style.
<jrwren> he comes off as an asshole.
<snap-l> Ever encountered a militant athiest?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> my wife is practically one :p
<snap-l> They're pretty much like militant religious folks
<jrwren> i try not to call her stupid to her face.
<jrwren> yes, they are.
<jrwren> atheism is a religion.
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<jrwren> fundies
<jrwren> not much different from fundamnetalist christians or islamists
<jrwren> someday there will be a group of atheists killing people, just like jihadists
<jrwren> or terrorizing people like westboro nutters
<snap-l> OK, Is everyone ready for a meeting?
<snap-l> We have a lot coming up in the next few months
<jrwren> oh no is that now?
<jrwren> what a terrible prequel :)
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/318/detail/
<snap-l> First order of business
<snap-l> A2 Hosting partnership
<rick_h> meeting?
<snap-l> Got contacted by Brd Litwin of A2 Hosting to sponsor the Ubuntu MI grou
<rick_h> ruh roh...
<snap-l> p
<rick_h> whoa? interesting
<snap-l> The text of the mail is in the agenda item
<jrwren> lets negotiate!
<snap-l> Brad has also contacted MUG for sponsorship
<rick_h> heh, ok reading
<jrwren> tell him sure, as long as the group can have a free VPS :p
<rick_h> hmm, is this out of CHC you think?
<snap-l> On the surface I think there's not much we can do for each other
<rick_h> or just form letter? I don't know I'd considered teh loco a web dev org
<snap-l> It's a form letter
<snap-l> MUG got exactly the same thing
<rick_h> yea, I mean I don't think the Loco has much hosting needs
<jrwren> both are true.
<rick_h> I think other groups like MUG and such are a better place for referrals/etc
<brousch> wait, is this a meeting?
<jrwren> i also don't know how many referals we would make.
<snap-l> Yeah, I think the best we could do is refer people to A2
<jrwren> I mean, I could make personal referals and say "tell 'em ubuntu mi sent ya"
<rick_h> right, I mean what would we do? Have the A2 hosting ad moment at group meet ups
<snap-l> but we have our own hosting through Canonical, and we have no treasury
<rick_h> snap-l: +1
<jrwren> no treasure is key I think, and we should keep it that way.
<rick_h> jrwren: +1
<jrwren> maybe we could refer them to more A2 centric groups?  AACS and the like?
<rick_h> woot, love just +1'ing other people
<rick_h> exactly, I think MUG is a great fit
<rick_h> snap-l: isn't mug already hosted on A2?
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I think AACS would be a better fit
<snap-l> rick_h: Yep, and we're paid for 3 years
<rick_h> yep, AACS and is that AA web dev group still around?
<snap-l> but Jim is checking into it
<jrwren> a2div is not around, but there is a new a2 node group.
<rick_h> snap-l: yea ok cool. I'd say we just respond with a "that's awesome, we don't really fit but have you checked out the following..."
<snap-l> Do you folks have contact information for the other groups?
<rick_h> and lead to other groups as a nice thing for an "area" business
<jrwren> i have contact info for all the groups mentioned so far.
<rick_h> ooh, I should pull up the guy for the detroit dev days stuff
<jrwren> i don't know about other groups... BUT
<jrwren> we could ask him to donate the $85 to the linux foundation.
<rick_h> in case of referral?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> it would be kind of cool to raise money for a linux nonprofit
<snap-l> jrwren: Would you send me the contact info for the AACS and the A2 Node group?
<jrwren> snap-l: pm ok?
<snap-l> (e-mail) ;)
<jrwren> k
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> OK, anything else on that?
<snap-l> (getting folks fired up. :) )
<snap-l> Moving on, then to item #2: Penguicon
<snap-l> And the release party
<snap-l> release party is at Penguicon this year, as it was last year
<snap-l> The hotel liason is aware of this, so I think the only thing we need to do is show up at the bar area
<snap-l> I'm not sure how well it'll accomodate folks. If it gets too big, we'll figure something else out
<snap-l> as always, hotel rules trup the party
<snap-l> trump, rather
<jrwren> i don't know if anyone heard, but the PC tech track is in need of speakers
<jrwren> tech track has been weak the past few yrs and they are looking to bring back some good stuff
<snap-l> We've also been asked to do a panel discussion for Precise Pangolin
<snap-l> I'll send out a separate e-mail to ask for volunteers for that
<snap-l> But yes, Penguicon is in dire need of a tech track
<snap-l> PCon is like stone soup in that regard. The more tech folks that come forward, more tech folks volunteer to show up
<jrwren> truth
<snap-l> So, if you have any inkling of ideas you'd like to present at PCon (rick_h) please contact them.
 * rick_h whistles dixie...
<jrwren> maybe BZR for the git junkie
<rick_h> bah, ok I'll look forward to the email and look into it
<snap-l> I'm debating on presenting the podcast talk again, with a little more focus
<rick_h> meh, I can talk on shell, vim, JS testing, ORM fun, whatever
<tjagoda> do vim
<rick_h> I'll check the dates and figure something or two out I guess
<brousch> now that canonical owns you you have to talk ubuntu
<snap-l> rick: tech@penguicon.org
<tjagoda> Its the hardcore stuff that's cool
<brousch> rick_h could just sit there for an hour and code
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> The zen of code
<brousch> bring the loud keyboard for best effect
<jrwren> performance coding is real, if you haven't seen it, look it up
<rick_h> "keyboarding for the geek with tastes"
<snap-l> OK, so any other thoughts on PCon?
<rick_h> no, was secretly hoping it didn't coincide with release party this year :P
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, good luck with that. :)
 * snap-l doesn't let on that his secret goal is to see rick_h partying with pirates.
<tjagoda> If I still have this job @ Penguicon I probably won't be at this Penguicon
<snap-l> tjagoda: Work on that.
<jrwren> http://prog21.dadgum.com/28.html http://impromptu.moso.com.au/gallery.html :)
<snap-l> OK, Moving on to item #3
<snap-l> Global Jam is coming up
<snap-l> like REAL SOON NOW
<snap-l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
<snap-l> jrwren: Is SRT available for that weekend?
<jrwren> tentative yes. I need to confirm
<jrwren> SRT almost never has weekend things going on, so it should be easy to secure
<snap-l> OK, awesome
<snap-l> LMK if that falls through
<jrwren> ok
<snap-l> s/M/U/
<snap-l> Thinking we could do what we did before with a 12-5pm jam
<snap-l> That seemed to work out OK
<rick_h> yea, works for me
<jrwren> sounds good
<rick_h> bah, except I've got family in town now that I load hte page
<rick_h> well maybe...hmmmm
<snap-l> Bring 'em down
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1526/detail/
<snap-l> That's the event info
<brousch> can you put it on the ubuntu-michigan calendar?
<snap-l> More details forthcoming
<snap-l> That is the Ubuntu MI calendar. :)
<snap-l> Anything else we need to talk about the jam in here?
<snap-l> OK, last item:
<snap-l> SWAG for upcoming events
<snap-l> I have failed to ask about this
<snap-l> (sad trombone)
<snap-l> I will send out a mail to enquire about this
<snap-l> That's all I have
<snap-l> any other business?
<snap-l> brousch: One thought: is West MI planning on coming to Ann Arbor?
<brousch> i will try to come out for bug jam. probably have our own release party at the weekly grlug meeting
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Please put the release party for GRLUG on the calendar whenyou get a chance.
<brousch> oh, right
<snap-l> OK, unless there's anything else, I think w can call this a meeting
<snap-l> Thank you, everyone1
<jjesse> we had a meeting on super bowl sunday?
<snap-l> We're geeks
<jjesse> hahaha
<snap-l> It's just another sunday
<jjesse> you're missing some great commericals
<snap-l> Pardon me while I don't give a shit. :)
<jjesse> wow
<jjesse> just trying to be funny, guess i'll crawl back under my rock
<snap-l> jjesse: Sheesh, don't take me seriously. :)
<jjesse> :)
<_stink_> heh - i didn't watch a single minute of the game.  usually i would
<_stink_> i don't even know if it's done yet.
<rick_h> heh done
<_stink_> i do have it DVRed, but uh, i'd have to zip through it tonight or avoid all media and humans tomorrow to keep the result a secret until i watch it
<_stink_> that's the good thing about recording overseas soccer games
<_stink_> no one wants to talk about them
<greg-g> recording what?
<_stink_> my wife said something about Madonna
<_stink_> :P
<greg-g> oh, that's who played the crypt keeper tonight?
<_stink_> hehe
<greg-g> (joke wasn't mine, saw it flow along the twitterstream)
<_stink_> thanks, DVR!  i just watched it in about 40 minutes.
<nate22> any ladies near ann arbor
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> GOod morning
<brousch> the subaru tranny troubles have been temporarily fixed with a $5 bottle of tranny stop leak
<brousch> i alsways though that stuff was snakeoil
<rick_h> hah
<brousch> my mechanic explained to me how it might actually work for a few months
<brousch> A rubber bushing was down deep in the tranny is worn. The snakeoil swells the bushing so it seals again. It should work until it wears farther.
<rick_h> cool
<brousch> yeah, now we can at least have both cars while we shop for a new one
<rick_h> man, now I'll have to start thinking nice things about dreamhost: http://blog.doughellmann.com/2012/02/moving-to-dreamhost.html
<brousch> finally someone who can get them off of py2.5
<rick_h> heh, I guess this next version of django will be the last to support 2.5
<rick_h> so I think that'll prod a lot of people to finally move if you can't run django
<brousch> i don't think 1.4 will support 2.5
<brousch> so i think the current version is the last
<brousch> nope, you're right
<brousch> django 1.4 will support python 2.5
<rick_h> yea, I was following hte conversation on twitter over the weekend
<brousch> GAE finally bumped up to 2.7
<snap-l> Nice to see Doug Hellman moving to Dreamhost
<rick_h> yea, interesting
<brousch> use my referral code if you join up!
<snap-l> I'm not that crazy. :)
<brousch> not crazy enough to use my code, or not crazy enough to use dreamhost?
<snap-l> the latter
<brousch> :P
<brousch> wow. just wow http://debbiespenditnow.com/
<snap-l> What was the point of that?
<brousch> the whole page is wow
<brousch> i can't believe it's not a spoof site
<snap-l> OK Pythonistas: what's the best way to use a sqlalchemy model between tests? Test Suite?
<snap-l> Using nosetests to run the whole shebang, but want to set up the models and test them first before testing other code
<snap-l> Hm, maybe fixture will do the trick
<rick_h> snap-l: using migrations?
<rick_h> snap-l: you're onto one of the great debated topics of testing
<rick_h> there's a ton of ways to go and all depends on what you're testing
<snap-l> Yeah, I think I'm just going to repeat myself
<rick_h> ??
<rick_h> repeat yourself?
<snap-l> was going to see if I could re-use the code that I'm using to test the models to test the mailing
<snap-l> since the mailing piece uses the same database as the model test
<rick_h> well ideally you'd feed the mailing tests non-model bits
<rick_h> that doesn't need to touch a database
<rick_h> ideally your mailing code is taking as a parameter a list of objects that you can just send fakes in
<rick_h> and not talking to the db directly
<snap-l> The mailing bits read from the database, though.
<snap-l> Feh
<rick_h> boooo :P
<snap-l> What started off as a nice little script is turning into a refactoring mess
<rick_h> always always write a wrapper api over the sqlalchemy code
<snap-l> just so it can be tested
<rick_h> well, you'll be glad for it later
<snap-l> Yeah, thanks doc.
<rick_h> go ask john how easy that staples crap was
<rick_h> ugh, /me grumbles some more on that
<snap-l> So, waitaminute
<rick_h> snap-l: it's the old case for the Mgr class stuff you see in bookie we chatted about before
<rick_h> it's easy to mock that out for tests
<snap-l> the correct way to test something like this is to mock out the database? WOuldn't it be easier to load fake data into sqlite's memory database and test that?
<rick_h> that's one way, but fragile
<rick_h> the *right* way is to mock the database object you send to the mail code
<snap-l> Jesus, python people are strange. ;)
<rick_h> so you've got an object that you're mailing "MailUsers" that has things on it like name, age, etc
<rick_h> then you'd mock outa  MailUsers object, set ame, age values, and then pass it to the email code
<rick_h> so don't think of it as mocking the database, but mocking the result set or returned value
<snap-l> Except the e-mail code will be mocked out so it doesn't send anything to anyone
<snap-l> This mockery will not stand!
<rick_h> well that's only the last smtp part
<rick_h> you're not going to mock out the building of the email object, checking headers set right, checking titles are formatted correctly, etc
<snap-l> No, just the last piece
<snap-l> "sending out the mail"
<rick_h> it's another case of hard without seeing the code
<rick_h> but right, you want to test only the part of code that's under test
<rick_h> you don't want things like models breaking your email test
<rick_h> that's why what you're trying to do is bad
<rick_h> "how can I test my models before I test other code that's going to use those..."
<rick_h> sign of fail
 * snap-l mutters something about regexes and two problems.
 * snap-l mutters something else about mocking objects and two problems.
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> well but that's why it's done a ton of ways
<rick_h> some people do sqlite in memory dbs
<rick_h> some people have dbs with known start data
<rick_h> but eventually maintaining those gets hairy
<rick_h> and if you're not deploying to sqlite...well now how do you run tests against mysql,e tc
<snap-l> You use sqlalchemy and abstract away the database like a good developer. ;)
<rick_h> right, but in Bookie code I've got queries, built with sqlalchemy, that failed in pgsql but passed sqlite
<rick_h> it's not 100%
<rick_h> see anything datetime related
<rick_h> or boolean
<brousch> interesting. i think i would use a sqlite DB too
<brousch> but i'm as leet as the fungus under rick_h's pinky toenail
<rick_h> there's all kinds of ways, there's just keeping things in the sqlalchemy session and never committing
<rick_h> basically you start a session, do work, test, rollback
<rick_h> there's fake dbs, there's mocking out things, there's full production dbs that you run tests against
<rick_h> anyway, the most *right* solution, but a pita as well is to make sure your appliaction code uses generic "objects" and those generic objects are a layer that talks to the db/orm so that you've got a middle layer to split along, mock, and test.
<rick_h> it also makes things like changing ORMs and such much much easier and refactoring nicer
<brousch> changing orms?
<snap-l> I already chose the One True ORM, and now you're talking about changing it?
<snap-l> sheesh
<snap-l> that's it, I'm moving back to Perl
<snap-l> At least there we had one true database interface. DBI and DBD, and may God have mercy on your SQL
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> well I'm generalizing, this is true of any time you use a library
<snap-l> rick_h: I know
<rick_h> you want to make sure you wrap it or can wrap any future thing of it so that you can swap it out
<rick_h> apis all the way down
<snap-l> I just wonder how far down the rabbit hole you can go before your in a maze of API calls, all alike.
<brousch> this is a neat concept http://hairysun.com/books/decorators/
<snap-l> While a Cheshire Cat mocks you out of existence.
<rick_h> just keep it in mind. I think it's the kind of thing you have to find and get the voila moment with
<snap-l> brousch: Sheesh, that book image is taking forever to load
<rick_h> http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/04/learning-python-decorators-handout/http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/04/learning-python-decorators-handout/
<snap-l> Too bad it's kindle only
<rick_h> bwuhahahaha :P
<rick_h> it's the store/billing
<brousch> d00d put the kindle app on your nook
<snap-l> d000000d haven't rooted the nook yet.
<brousch> l4mz0r
<snap-l> Well, considering the lame-ass apps that the Nook has in their store, it may get rooted sooner than later
<brousch> anyways, it's not the book itself that's awesome, it's the concept of a small book targeting a specific thing. like a chapter from a giant python book
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/NOOK-Apps/379003212 <- Look and weep
<rick_h> yea, the kindle singles and such
<rick_h> it's the thing rage these days, self publish, etc
<brousch> so you can publish a cheap, small book on a topic you know well without worrying about all the other crap that usually goes with a programming book
<rick_h> right
<snap-l> PDF, epub or go home.
<brousch> heh
<brousch> i wonder if you bought the kindle book if he'd send you a PDF
<snap-l> Not sure
<snap-l> Should I ignite the fires of nerd-ragery?
<brousch> you could just ask without starting a flamefest
<brousch> then, if denied, turn on the flamethrower
<snap-l> It only has two speeds: off, and immolation
<snap-l> and no safety
<Wolfger> snap-l: welcome back to Perl? ;-)
<Wolfger> also, mobi or gtfo
<snap-l> Wolfger: Those must be some good drugs. :)
<snap-l> .mobi is a terrible format
<rick_h> +1
<Wolfger> It works on my Kindle, therefore it is awesome.
 * Wolfger honestly hasn't compared any of the formats in any meaningful way
<snap-l> If Amazon wasn't the owner of .mobi, I think they would be using ePub
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> I'm a kindle lover and I hate mobi and want epub
<snap-l> http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/MOBI
<snap-l> http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EPUB
<snap-l> Which would you rather write a filter for? :)
<snap-l> The only problem with ePub is it is a bit of a pain to get it right on multiple devices.
<rick_h> it's html, welcome to the web
<rick_h> :)
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I was going to say; it's kinda like 1995 era HTML
<snap-l> And of course it's Adobe, so it has it's own little quirks
<rick_h> epub3 to save the day...maybe...hopefully
<snap-l> Don't bet on it. epub3 has some wonkiness associated with it as well
<rick_h> yea, but less 1995 html
<snap-l> 1998-2000 HTML. ;)
<snap-l> I love how one of the features of epub3 is "font obfuscation"
<snap-l> Damn typography idiots
<snap-l> but I guess that's the concession they need to make to get embeddable fonts in the standard.
<rick_h> yep
<brousch> screw fonts. let me use my own font
<greg-g> but then it won't look exactly how the designer wanted it to
<rick_h> heh, yea I like the option
<rick_h> people make bad decisions to express themselves and be artistic
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> it will never look how they want because it's the same ePub on an android phone as on a 30" monitor
<greg-g> well, not if you do special CSS (or whatever the equiv is on epub3, I assume CSS?)
<greg-g> like those blogs that have 1-5 columns depending on how wide your browser window is
<rick_h> responsive design wheeee
<brousch> well if it's as snap-l described, then that won't come about for another decade or so
<greg-g> I didn't real all the scrollback, so you can safely ignore my uninformed comments ;)
<greg-g> s/real/read/
<rick_h> greg-g: just discussion epub vs mobi and how epub is htmly but old htmly
<snap-l> WEll, epub3 is supposed to be more html5y
<Wolfger> well then they should call it epub5, since we all know version numbers are arbitrary bs anyhow
<rick_h> yea, well fancy video/audio and input elements/interactive stuff
<brousch> why not just use html?
<snap-l> It kind of is underneath
<rick_h> because that wouldn't work :P
<snap-l> but there's some packaging to make it work (chapters, table of contents, etc)
<snap-l> Head to gutenberg and download an epub file and run "unzip" on it
<snap-l> it's pretty illuminating how it's put together
<snap-l> kind of like .ODF files
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-07
<snap-l> http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/02/has-a-toddlers-mischief-ever-caught-you-off-guard.html
<snap-l> rick_h: _stink_  ^^
<snap-l> Something to look forward to
<rick_h> snap-l: :)
<_stink_> snap-l: haha, good find
<snap-l> Oh, btw: Kubuntu is now officially the blue-headed stepchild
 * _stink_ plans to steal all the toys from the world's claw games
<tjagoda> Why is it not official?
<rick_h> snap-l: the token support is just over
<rick_h> at least now it's honest
<tjagoda> now official*
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, at least it's not just one overworked developer during working hours
<snap-l> now it's just a community effort
<tjagoda> ohh
<tjagoda> IseeIsee
<_stink_> watch it thrive under its newfound freedom.
<tjagoda> Did they sack the developer, or just move him to different projects?
<rick_h> tjagoda: reassign
<tjagoda> "Instead of blue, we'd like you to use purple."
<snap-l> God, I am out of shape
<snap-l> Trying to keep up w/ air drumming, and am out of breath after one song
<snap-l> also gave myslef the mother of all blisters on ,y index finger
<mydogsnameisrudy> Morning
<rick_h> trying out firefox for the day, bookie is a chunk slower in it :(
<snap-l> how big of a chunk?
<Wolfger> rick_h: Well, I'm glad they're finally honest about not supporting Kubuntu
<Wolfger> and good morning. :-)
<rick_h> snap-l: 500ms
<snap-l> I think I'm becoming rick_h
<rick_h> 1.7ms vs 1.2 or 900ms
<snap-l> opting to use mutt to read my mail
<rick_h> bwuhahahaha, let me know when you want to see my config stuff :)
<rick_h> snap-l: and make sure to remember the magic . key
<snap-l> I shudder to think about rick_h's magic period
<snap-l> Ah, buffy list?
<snap-l> I only have one inbox
<snap-l> so it's a bit of a moot point. ;)
<snap-l> Though CTRL-d is my friend for throwing out large threads that I don't care about
<snap-l> ie: flamefests on Full Discloosure
<Wolfger> snap-l: the phrase "rick_h's magic period" should never have been uttered.
<brousch> This is some weak sauce http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/07/0143224/canonical-pulls-kubuntu-personnel-funding
<Wolfger> brousch: what did you expect?
<brousch> I expect things not to change
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> and you expect this because of buttons staying where they belong? Unity? The HUD?
<brousch> They have only been mucking up Gnome. KDE has been left alone
<Wolfger> I understand Canonical pulled support because they realized Ubuntu was losing too many people to Kubuntu.
<Wolfger> and now KDE will be left alone for good. You should be happy. :-)
<brousch> At this point killing Kubuntu will not get me back on Ubuntu, it will get me onto another distro
<rick_h> they're not killing kubuntu
<rick_h> they're moving one canonical employee's duties
<brousch> They only had 1 guy on Kubuntu?
<snap-l> yes
<brousch> He must've been awesome
<snap-l> They're making it more community-driven
<rick_h> yes, this one guy, that canonical was paying a salary to work on kubuntu fulltime is getting a new duty within the compnay
<snap-l> He was the full-time employee overseeing
<rick_h> brousch: no, the point is that there's more to kubutun than one guy
<snap-l> Well, actually, I'm overstating
<rick_h> so this talk of "killing" a distro because they're reallocating one guy is a bit nuts
<snap-l> rick_h: This is the Internet. We're not supposed to be rational
<brousch> Are they looking for a new overseer?
<Wolfger> The point is, they were only ever paying lip service to Kubuntu support, and they decided it wasn't worth the money to keep up the facade.
<rick_h> brousch: they're looking for the community to take over
<rick_h> Wolfger: I think it's more "we need more resources, here's a good dev we could use on some things"
<snap-l> Wolfger: If it makes you happier to feel slighted, please feel free
<Wolfger> brousch: I really don't see this move hurting Kubuntu at all, except possibly via some people's perceptions
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> So you're saying it's time to get on the Kubuntu mailing lists to make sure it stays awesome?
<snap-l> Absolutely
<Wolfger> snap-l: I don't feel slighted. Although if I take to rick_h's explanation, I would...
<rick_h> brousch: sounds like a good plan
<rick_h> wtf...Firefox...search in the address bar pls!
<rick_h> Wolfger: every company has priorities
<rick_h> launchpad devs are off working on cloud things for canonical and not launchpad
<rick_h> good devs are hard to find and some things have higher priority than others
<rick_h> sorry that kubuntu isn't job #1 :)
<brousch> it should be. it's the only full-featured, usable interface left!
<Wolfger> rick_h: Oh, I understand they have to prioritize. I have no objections to that. I'm certainly not going to be *pleased* that their priorities are counter to mine, though.
<rick_h> "he says to the man that runs awesome on ubuntu without any issues"
<rick_h> Wolfger: this is like being angry at Chrysler for not building more mopeds. I mean, it's what I want...not my problem that the main company focus are larger cars
<Wolfger> As a customer, you always have the right to tell the company you patronize what it is that you want. Although in this case "customer" may not be appropriate since I don't directly pay Canonical for anything.
<Wolfger> but I feel like a customer, dammit :-)
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> I'm glad you're realizing it though
<nullspace> Wolfger: I just read, sorry buddy
<brousch> hey, i bought stickers and a shirt, i'm a customer!
<brousch> rick_h: you are still running awesome?
<brousch> i thought they dogfooded you
<rick_h> brousch: forever!
<rick_h> brousch: heh, my second desktop has unity on it
<rick_h> but it's just a web browser holder
<rick_h> brousch:  https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/cNYeLKcrntc
<brousch> I think I'm sensitive about this Kubuntu thing because I feel like Canonical pulled a beautiful, working desktop out from under me once already
<rick_h> *sigh* I want to like firefox but man
<brousch> firefox is fine. what's your gripe with it?
<rick_h> seperate search, restart after extension install, size of chrome, performance, having the http:// in the url bar so I can't change prefix with home key
<rick_h> oreilly has some good stuff coming in the upcoming section
<rick_h> amazon wishlist growing
<snap-l> rick_h: links?
<jrwren> anyone use testdrive regularly?
<jrwren> kvm's -usb -usbdevice tablet isn't working with VNC for me. do you think I should file a bug?  an ubuntu bug or a KVM bug?
<rick_h> snap-l: http://amzn.com/w/2MA8O7BXBIDWH
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, nice.
<snap-l> The machine learningone should be fun
<rick_h> possibly
<snap-l> Code Simplicity: The Science of Software Design <- Why does this not look like an O'Reilly title. :)
<snap-l> Wonder if it's along the same line as "Art of ..."
<snap-l> rick_h: Thinking about doing more with Go?
<rick_h> yea
<brousch> I just got "Machine Learning with Mahout" for free from Manning http://manning.com/owen/
<brousch> For the GRMobileDev group
<snap-l> Mahout?
<rick_h> thing on top of hadoop I think
<snap-l> Wow, that's a top 10 bad name.
<brousch> wait, "Mahout in Action", where Mahout is a machine learning library
<brousch> "Â Mahout, Apache's open source machine learning project, captures the core algorithms of recommendation systems, classification, and clustering in ready-to-use, scalable libraries. With Mahout, you can immediately apply to your own projects the machine learning techniques that drive Amazon, Netflix, and others."
<snap-l> Yeah, I can read. :)
<brousch> i know. i just assumed you were lazy :P
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> Good general assumption
<Wolfger> heh
<rick_h> always a good assumption
<Wolfger> especially on the internet
<brousch> Any of you been to this? http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/
<Wolfger> what I love is when somebody in AskUbuntu asks a question that sounds like it's easily Google-able, and I Google it and try to help them and they get all snotty with me and downvote me. Well if you already looked at that and it's not what you wanted, say so!
<rick_h> brousch: I think I remember seeing a note when it started
<brousch> decent topics http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/events
<rick_h> yea, looks like CHC ish weekly thing at a hacker space
<brousch> hm, 4 hours of driving to hear mulka talk about GAE
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> and $50 in gas
<brousch> i'm gonna have to pass
<brousch> pass on the meeting, not pass gas
<rick_h> meh, pass both wth
<brousch> you only say that because there is a long distance between us
<rick_h> I feel safer, definitely
<Wolfger> I dunno... prevailing winds are west -> east
<Wolfger> lake effect snow + brousch gas could be devastating
<rick_h> Wolfger: right, but currently winds are out of the N
 * brousch heads for saginaw
<rick_h> nnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<brousch> you guys watch this video? http://www.flossmanuals.net/
<brousch> doh
<brousch> http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events-2/
<brousch> we're famous!
<rick_h> heh, we need to look a bit happier
<brousch> rick_h: your shirt looks like it says "I P code"
<rick_h> woo hoo!
<rick_h> never stop making code, even in the bathroom
<jrwren> rick_h: you ARE thinking about doing more with go?  why?
<rick_h> jrwren: for me I'm hoping it's a middle ground I can get comfy with
<rick_h> I don't like doing java/mono/etc. I just can't stand it
<rick_h> so hoping Go is some sort of middle ground between that world and python/ruby/js/etc
<rick_h> and a chance to do some things with the concurrency/perf features
<jrwren> rick_h: wow, very cool answer :)
<rick_h> heh, not sure if you mean that a bit sarcasticly there
<jrwren> no, i'm actually serious.
<brousch> Isn't Boo a Python-like language for .net?
<rick_h> brousch: yea, but I'm not a fan of the whole "I want to be like X but don't like X so I'll do Y on X"
<jrwren> yes, but it has very little community, and you are still consuming .net libraries, I'd not actually suggest it to someone as an alt to python
<rick_h> you end up without getting either of the communities/etc I think
<rick_h> so much of a language is the stuff beyond the code itself
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> community and activity in libraries
<jrwren> boo never reached that critical mass
<rick_h> right, and things are put together differently based on the subtleties of the language
<jrwren> hell, the non-ms .net owrld never reached a good critical mass
<rick_h> things like concurrency are very different in python vs java vs go, etc
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, though mono seems to be doing fairly well these days
<brousch> jrwren: too much perception of possible evil balmer taint
<rick_h> I wouldn't call it "critical mass" but surprised at how it's done
<rick_h> bah, any programmer that's got balmer in his head needs help
<jrwren> mono forked to mobile.
<jrwren> outside of mobile mono isn't moving very much
<jrwren> only idiots percieve mono as balmer taint
<jrwren> boycottnovell guy is as crazy as gene ray
<jrwren> a farm only needs one scarcrow, but i've seen more strawmen at his farm than I've seen corn stalks
<rick_h> jrwren: yea? I had seen some posts with people playing with it the last few months in seemingly hobby areas which I thought was interesting
<jrwren> rick_h: well, web toys, but nothing big enough to make a huge impact. Manos is cool, but its not moving much AFAICT
<jrwren> what kind of stuff have you seen?
<rick_h> jrwren: trying to think, someone was testing porting something for perf reasons I think?
<rick_h> not a ton I guess, but I don't see much "hobby" coding in mono stuff so it struck me
<rick_h> but yea, I don't see it much in my circles
<jrwren> right
<rick_h> you know what it is, I've seen people raving on mono edit or whatveer the ide is
<jrwren> monodevelop?
<rick_h> yea
<jrwren> monodevelop is really nice.
<jrwren> oh, y aknow where else mono is actually awesome.  Google Native Client.
<rick_h> ah, that's cool
<jrwren> letting go of C# is difficult. i'm slowly letting go of my beloved :)
<rick_h> it'll be ok :)
<rick_h> water is good over here
<brousch> why let go?
<jrwren> i've no use for it anylonger.
<rick_h> jrwren: is it official?
<jrwren> i did not get a new job.
<jrwren> i've not heard anything.
<rick_h> ah ok
<rick_h> jrwren: don't need it at srt any longer? I thought you guys still did a lot of .net stuff?
<jrwren> only 1 project that only has 5 people on it.
<rick_h> ah, cool that you guys have done such a massive transition
<jrwren> we are all ruby, python, objective-c, flex, html, css, js now
<jrwren> yeah, its been interesting.
<jrwren> oh, there was 1 other C# project that just finished, but it was 1 person
<brousch> wow
<rick_h> jrwren: is michipug attended by many of srt these days then?
<jrwren> i don't think so.
<jrwren> the main python guy is darrell and he is president of local little league
<jrwren> and other one is Alex who lives in lansing and just had a baby.
<rick_h> gotcha
<jrwren> so they could do better. :)
<rick_h> I keep meaning to start heading out again now that I'm home full time
<jrwren> but they are doing django a copule revs bak.
<jrwren> python 2.4 I think, so going to a pug and seeing all the new stuff that they can't use might actually be depressing :)
<rick_h> hah
<brousch> omg, who still uses python2.4?
<jrwren> lots of people.
<jrwren> isn't GAE still p2.4
<brousch> no, it has 2.5 and recently 2.7
<jrwren> oh coo..
<jrwren> so they are still there because that is what their hosted server runs.
<brousch> dreamhost has 2.5
<brousch> that server must be ancient
<jrwren> its not a sahred web host.
<jrwren> sure, its a built from when they launched a few yrs ago.
<jrwren> it ain't broke, don't fix. :)
<brousch> that leads to cobol
<brousch> and businesses that run on Access 97
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm totally stealing that scarecrow / strawman / corn stalks analogy.
<jrwren> snap-l: feel free. i just came up with it :)
<jrwren> brousch: we just talked ot a business that runs on access and ASP.
<jrwren> old... classic... vbscript ASP. :(
<jrwren> it works.
<jrwren> the only reason they are looking to upgrade is that they cannot find devs willing to work on it!
<snap-l> Yeah, I find it interesting how we talk about X and y, but businesses are still on A, B, and C.
<snap-l> not even near the end of the alphabet. :)
<brousch> jrwren: well i would consider that a kind of breakage
<snap-l> unfixable.
<jrwren> brousch: yes, it is. When your cost of maint gets so high, you actually get ROI by rewriting with newer tech
<brousch> oh baby, i have a tech-on http://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/printers.html
<jrwren> yeah... works with chromeos devices too.
<snap-l> brousch: Um, make sure to wipe
<snap-l> a little lysol might sterilize those surfaces.
<brousch> i love cloud print, but don't have an always-on windows or OSX machine at home to hook it up to
<brousch> now they have cloud-print ready printers
<snap-l> HAven't found a usecase for that yet. :)
<brousch> also, this is a requirement for getting certain people in my family to go android-only at home
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> mobile devices
<brousch> snap-l: how about printing from your android phone?
<brousch> from frickin anywhere
<snap-l> I'll agree that networked printers are the bee's knees
<snap-l> Like when I printed from the living room
<snap-l> but printing from my hotel room to my home printer? Notsomuch
<brousch> well if you want to print at all from android or chromeos you need cloudprint
<snap-l> However, if it can kill the fax machine, I'm all for it.
<jrwren> i just wish I had a printer with linux drivers :(  fucking dell
<snap-l> secure printing over the cloud = A+
<jrwren> but it was a free printer
<snap-l> jrwren: Brother or HP
<snap-l> And Brother if you don't want to go blind buying consumables
<jrwren> yes, i moved from a $25 used HP 4L mp to this dell.
<snap-l> jrwren: Does the Dell do networking?
<brousch> snap-l: i think your print jobs go through google, so depending on how paranoid you are cloud print might not suit you
<snap-l> I'm paranoid enough to save my passwords with Google.
<snap-l> but not on truly secure sites. ;)
<snap-l> I wouldn't send a form with my SSN through Google (knowingly)
<snap-l> but my address, sure.
<jrwren> the dell does not do networking.
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> Any chance of getting one that does? :)
<snap-l> Seriously, dumpster dive
<jrwren> meh.
<jrwren> its not needed.
<jrwren> i print once a month at the most.
<jrwren> someimtes twice a yr
<brousch> i print taxes and the occasional coupon
<brousch> but my parents print maps and such
<snap-l> http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/02/07/verizon-galaxy-nexus-drops-to-99-at-amazon/
<snap-l> JoDee makes copies for her school stuff
<snap-l> so we got the multifunction printer from hell. :)
<nixternal> galaxy nexus is such a garbage phone. so glad i switched to the rezound
<rick_h> nixternal: heh, once I got mine replaced I"m happy camper
<rick_h> nixternal: the razr maxx would be on my list I htink if I were to do over
<nixternal> when you can overclock it to 2GHz, let me know :)
<nixternal> motorola can go to hell
<rick_h> nixternal: heh, don't need to. I don't have any perf issues now
<nixternal> me either, but it blew my mind that my cell phone hit 2GHz and was stable
<rick_h> heh, awesome
<nixternal> as for the galaxy nexus, friends don't let friends buy samsung
<rick_h> ouch
<jrwren> doesn't GOOG own that Moto now?
<nixternal> :)
<nixternal> jrwren: just the patents
<jrwren> moto mobile is GOOG isn't it?
<snap-l> I love that it starts off at $99, but then you add a reasonable plan ($60 for 450 minutes + unlimited texting) and then get dinged $30+ for data.
<nixternal> for the most part, yes
<jcastro> not yet, hasn't been integrated yet
<snap-l> so $90 a month for the phone
<jrwren> not just the patents: http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
<nixternal> ahh, so glad i have unlimited data for $30. love being grandfathered
<snap-l> nixternal: Not for long
<snap-l> they'll figure out how to kill your grandfather.
<nixternal> jrwren: they are going to eventually dump moto mobility back to moto, i guarantee it. now i wonder how many of the old employees will switch back from google now that they are tasting the good life?
<nixternal> though, now we have 2 google shops in chicago, so you know that isn't going to stick
<nixternal> snap-l: and when they do, i will either switch or ditch it entirely.
<brousch> so now razr maxx and rezound are what i should be looking at?
<jrwren> google shops?
<jrwren> goog has retail stores?
<rick_h> brousch: I still say look at nexus, I don't know what nixternal has against samsung
<nixternal> brousch: rezound rocks. htc allows you to easily unlock the boot loader. rezound has a much larger developer community than any motorola device
<rick_h> ICS ftw
<snap-l> Yeah, I want ICS
<nixternal> doesn't matter which phone you go with, they will both be EOL before the end of 2012 anyways. now you have to decide, that extra year on your contract, wouldn't you want to have the ability to install custom roms? if so, moto isn't what you want
<nixternal> i have ics on my rezound
<snap-l> although frankly I'm still waffling on the iPhone. :)
<nixternal> plus htc is about a month or 2 out from releasing ics for the rezound
<brousch> snap-l: die in a fire
<nixternal> the iphone is shit
<brousch> yes, i want custom roms, preferably cyanogen
<snap-l> I liked my corp iPhone
<snap-l> I especailly liked the fact that they paid for it. :)
 * snap-l has a real problem spending $$ on data + voice
<nixternal> brousch: aosp and cm9 all around for the rezound, as well as a custom fixed up leak from htc
<nixternal> i seriously thought about going all apple, but after trying for a month, i had to return everything. i couldn't stand a damn thing. actually, i didn't even last 30 days
<nixternal> though, kubuntu on the air 13" was freakin' awesome!
<brousch> i couldn't get dragging and dropping with the touchpad working well
<brousch> using kubuntu on a MBP
 * snap-l wonders about Republic Wireless.
<brousch> 300MB/mo wireless data is a no-go for me
<brousch> also i worry about maps on a long trip
<nixternal> i don't even use 2gb of data a month
<nixternal> i have the habit of "if there is wifi available, i am using it"
<brousch> republic has a soft cap at 300MB
<brousch> MB
<snap-l> Ah
<nixternal> but 4g is just as fast, if not faster than most wifi hotspots anyways
<rick_h> wireless is only any good if yuo have coverage
<brousch> so you'd use it all in about 5 minutes of 4g
<rick_h> and yea, I'm at 600MB in 4 days of usage
<rick_h> (since I turned on the replacement nexus device
<rick_h> nixternal: yes, 4g is MUCH faster than any wifi hotspot I've used
<rick_h> hell, the upload is 6x my uverse home connection
<nixternal> it is damn near as fast as my internet connection at home sometimes
<rick_h> it's faster than mine if I head a bit closer to dtw
<snap-l> I signed up for the beta.
<nixternal> i actually scored 12MB/s on the speed test with 4g
<nixternal> that blew my mind
<rick_h> nixternal: heh, 28mb down 8mb up
<nixternal> funny thing, i can't get decent 3g in my house, yet the 4g totally rocks
<snap-l> (Republic Wireless)
<rick_h> that was my record while at CHC on woodward
<brousch> wow, rezound specs do look good http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Motorola-DROID,HTC-Rezound,Samsung-GALAXY-Nexus/phones/3853,5799,5595
<nixternal> and htc will eventually allow every music app to utilize the beats audio, which make metallica sound better than anything i have listed to them on :)
<nixternal> i am not the biggest fan of sense <4.0, but it is still decent
<nixternal> sense 4.0 rocks i have to say. granted they didn't use the ics look, but still, i prefer it over the stock ics experience i think
<brousch> blah, i hate the add-on theme crap
<brousch> which is why i like CM
<nixternal> sense is more than theme crap, similar to motoblur, which is just awful
<rick_h> nixternal: so why the samsung hate?
<nixternal> i don't hate samsung. all of my tv's are samsung
<rick_h> ok, why the samsung phone hate?
<nixternal> not so much hate, just 2 bad experiences with one
<brousch> i've been really happy with my original droid
<nixternal> i usually don't have problems with my phone because i typically don't use stupid apps that drain the battery or what not, but the 4g connection was shit for me
<nixternal> on my rezound, i haven't had an issue
<snap-l> nixternal: SHow me on the phone where the Samsugng touched you
<nixternal> plus i kept getting dead pixels
<nixternal> snap-l: i am tired of pulling down my pants for you everytime you get hungry :p
<brousch> wow, the places nixternal goes
<nixternal> :)
<brousch> always amazes me
<nixternal> i had to go there before snap-l did, but i will take the blame like usual :p
<brousch> i can upgrade to rezound for $199 or Galaxy Nexus for $299
<nixternal> if you go amazon, you create a new account, then when you get the phone, you call verizon and tell them to close that account and switch it to your current account
<nixternal> that is how you get phones cheaper on amazon
<nixternal> that is at least what i have read that everyone else does
<nixternal> and verizon does it with no problem
<brousch> geez
<snap-l> This is why I hate phone companies
<nixternal> ok, gotta roll. doing a site assessment today. first non-coding job in a while
<brousch> hm, $80 on amazon, might be worth it for $120
<snap-l> laterness, nixternal
<nixternal> oh, and don't forget about costco
<nixternal> to get around their membership stuff if you don't have one, go to a store that sells gift cards and buy a couple costco ones. that gets you in and allows you to shop :)
<nixternal> now i can leave :) later
<snap-l> Now I know why we haven't perm-banned him. ;)
<brousch> i had no idea
<brousch> my sister is a costco member. i make her buy bulk soy milk for us and reimburse her
<snap-l> heh
<jrwren> organic or monstanto?
 * snap-l is eating edamame
<jrwren> organic or monstanto?
<snap-l> Chinese
<snap-l> which means I'll probably be dead within the hour
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjw7n_U37A YAY!
<rick_h> hah love it, link it 404 wheee
<rick_h> oooh, this is nice
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596518875.do <- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<rick_h> oh man, this is slick, picks up my current tabs on the desktop, not hte laptop wonder why that is
<rick_h> there we go, sweet
<brousch> chrome for android?
<brousch> i feel another tech-on
<rick_h> brousch: yes, and the ui is slick, chrome sync
<rick_h> I can see the tabs opened on my desktop/laptop and open any of them on my phone without this chrome2phone business
<brousch> oh my. has it been 4 hours since my last tech-on?
<brousch> i usually can't recover so quickly
<rick_h> no extensions currently, but how badass would it be if the bookie extension could work across to the phone on there?!
<rick_h> suddenly much more fired up for the chrome extension refactor/rewrite
<snap-l> Oh, nice thought
<rick_h> should be kind of easy since hte extensions are html, just to treat the extension a bit like a new tab
<Wolfger> I fucking hate Microsoft. That is all.
<snap-l> Wolfger: WHat now?
<snap-l> rick_h: http://mattdw.github.com/2012/rapid-coffee-postmortem.html
<snap-l> If you don't blow up by the end of it, you're not trying.
<rick_h> snap-l: I posted it to G+ this morning
<rick_h> actually liked it, good read
<rick_h> and some good tips, I want to see her MakeFiles
<snap-l> Ah, must've missed it
<rick_h> or his
<rick_h> snap-l: so you don't want to hear I bought the little book on coffeescript in my orielly checkup this morning?
<rick_h> it's on my DX for some reading tonight
<mydogsnameisrudy> http://www.nixternal.com/kubuntu-is-not-dead/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nixternal+%28Richard+A.+Johnson+-+Blog+Archives%29
<snap-l> Oh you didn't. :)
<snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: You missed nixternal in the room earlier. :)
<mydogsnameisrudy> oh
<brousch> i don't think nixternal posted that. not enough cursing
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/
<jrwren> uggg... learning C... offsetof()
<snap-l> Never used that. Sounds a bit dangerous
<jrwren> its C
<Wolfger> nixternal++
<mydogsnameisrudy> why is unity such a big thing im confused
<Wolfger> snap-l: My issue du jour (du heure?) with Microsoft is that when you are working in multiple Excel spreadsheets (as I often do), "undo" undoes your latest action *in ANY sheet*, not in the one you're currently focused on.
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: because it's annoying
<mydogsnameisrudy> ya  i get that part ;)
<brousch> it is more annoying than what came before it
<Blazeix> rick_h: so are you toeing on to the coffeescript wagon?
<Blazeix> it's starting to look pretty tempting
<rick_h> Blazeix: I'm doing research.
<Wolfger> So I'm working along in multiple sheets, and suddenly realize I made a mistake an hour ago in another sheet I'm barely touching. I can't undo it without losing an hour's work in my primary sheet.
<rick_h> Blazeix: I'm worried how it'll work fit around a framework
<rick_h> Blazeix: but I think I want to find a bit of code to try it with
<Blazeix> works pretty seamlessly with backbone :D
<rick_h> heh, well umm yea, I'm guessing backbone, underscore, and coffeescript would work together pretty well :P
<Wolfger> I managed a workaround that involved saving things under different names, reopening them all, and copy/pasting the good work, but it's stressful and damned silly to have to deal with
<rick_h> (all written by same guy for the non-js people)
<rick_h> Blazeix: I still feel dirty, but I'm using sass which si the same thing just in css so I'm a hypocrite I admitit
<jrwren> snap-l: why should that read have made me blow up?
<jrwren> snap-l: so coffee script isn't a silver bullet, so what?
<snap-l> jrwren: was meant for rick_h
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I'm the hater that snap-l like to try to get fired up
<snap-l> jrwren: I'll need t resort to other tactics to get you fired up
<jrwren> we have a guy here who LOVES backbone, underscore and coffeescript
<snap-l> jrwren: Like saying patently false things like "Sisters of Mercy are overrated"
<jrwren> but they are overrated :p
<jrwren> that said... i want a 10min version of temple of love in my ears,right now
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's not hard to find someone that jumps overboard on it
<jrwren> http://turntable.fm/industrial_laptop_suck_train
<rick_h> but see every "movement" like rails, django, etc
<snap-l> jrwren: I love the titmle
<snap-l> title, even
<snap-l> Wonder if I could use coffeescript to learn Javascript. :)
<snap-l> so far the idioms I've seen used in the compiled versions make sense.
<rick_h> I think it's the wrong way to go though
<rick_h> I think it'd harm your ability to do non-coffee-js
<jrwren> probably not.
<jrwren> easier to just learn JS
<jrwren> its a damned simple language
<snap-l> rick_h: Well, I know enough JS
<snap-l> oh here we go
<rick_h> snap-l: but have you *done* enough JS?
<snap-l> No, I haven't
<jrwren> me either
<snap-l> because frankly I think it's a shit language. :)
<rick_h> there you go, adding a layer on it won't help
<jrwren> ever do lisp
<rick_h> time for the doing
<jrwren> ?
<rick_h> nope, not intentionally
<snap-l> jrwren: A little bit
<jrwren> JS is really just LISP with function(){} instead of just (((()))))
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> i'm serious.
<Wolfger> Uh....
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh hell no
<Wolfger> jrwren: I don't even do LISP, but I call BS
<jrwren> it has more in common wiht lisp than it does Java or TCL or anything that folks claim on which it is based
<jrwren> Wolfger: how can you call BS if you don't do lisp?
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3492902/what-poop-frameworks-exist-for-lisp-and-scheme
<Wolfger> jrwren: I've seen lisp
<rick_h> Blazeix: http://code.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/debugging.html :)
<snap-l> Sorry, first search for prototype and lisp
<jrwren> seeing and doing are 2 different things.
<Blazeix> rick_h: sweet, i've been playing the the chrome browser, and saw that option fly by
<jrwren> prototype inheritence is meaningless, you could impl the JS new keyword in lisp very easily and get prototype
<jrwren> lol... POOP framekworks.
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, I'm really digging it.
<rick_h> Blazeix: seeing my tabs listed under the machine for laptop/desktop just sent things over the edge, and very qiuck
<rick_h> I'll be so happy when mobile browsers have remote hooks like this though
<Blazeix> i don't think that's anything new though
<rick_h> nothing worse than debugging complex JS on mobile :/
<Blazeix> that's how remote webkit debugging works in general
<rick_h> Blazeix: right, it's in webkit, but only the BB playbook was released
<rick_h> so at least this means it can get into every ics device
<Blazeix> i'm really happy with the chrome beta so far
<rick_h> yea, definitely
<Blazeix> think it's going to replace the default android browser for me
<Blazeix> though i do miss my pie menu
<rick_h> hah, definitely, but part of that was the horrible way the menu worked in the ics default browser
<snap-l> jrwren: You're right. Hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're absolutely right
<Blazeix> heh, yeah, the default menu was a bit funky
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, that stupid "drag down so you can see it, then quick click it before it hides..."
<jrwren> snap-l: wait, about what am I right? LISP?  ty.
<snap-l> Don't let it go to your head. ;)
<snap-l> (actually jrwren is right about more things than I am. ;) )
<jrwren> nah.
<jrwren> further: json is just a weak form of s-expressions.  sexp ftw. json ftw.
<rick_h> anyone know how to glob with a not clause
<rick_h> trying to glob for .js but not min.js
<Blazeix> *[^min].js
<Blazeix> that would be my guess
<rick_h> *.js~*min* is working
<jrwren> shell glob or python glob lib?
<rick_h> yea, the [^min] didn't work right
<rick_h> shell
<rick_h> of course this doesn't do me any good because the tool just wants .js files *isgh*
<rick_h> that's a bad sigh
<Blazeix> hm, [^min] is kinda working for me
<Blazeix> it excludes all combinations of the letters m, i, and ,n
<Blazeix> cool, I never knew about the tilde syntax
<jrwren> glob not re
<rick_h> heh, bah...bookie js docs suck :(
<rick_h> Blazeix: yea, got it from http://www.zzapper.co.uk/zshtips.html
<rick_h> damn you audible for sucking me in
<brousch> Does this work for anyone? http://office.vdiw.net:8000
<brousch> looking for comments on the design
<mydogsnameisrudy> work as in come up
<brousch> it's "mobile first", so it should look even better on a phone
<brousch> or are they calling it responsive design now?
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: yeah
<mydogsnameisrudy> um first line " for monthly our meetings." is that to be hour?
<mydogsnameisrudy> or its just not flowing right
<mydogsnameisrudy> and im trying to learn python so ;)
<brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: you're right, that was funky. fixed it
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok looking again
<mydogsnameisrudy> better ,,, can you teach me some ? ;)
<brousch> i learned it all hanging out in here
<brousch> so just stick around
<mydogsnameisrudy> ah ok well ill keep trying then
<mydogsnameisrudy> just to far for me to drive
<brousch> ok, that's an exageration, but this is a good place to start
<mydogsnameisrudy> im in the U.P.
<brousch> right, i mean hang out in #ubuntu-us-mi
<mydogsnameisrudy> im all over xchat
<mydogsnameisrudy> learning
<brousch> books, web sites, and most importantly you need a project to work on
<mydogsnameisrudy> i dont program at all is python good to start with
<brousch> yes
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok i was looking at C++ but got lookin at python and im sticking with that
<brousch> yikes
<brousch> http://www.diveintopython.net/
<brousch> C++ is hard
<mydogsnameisrudy> im going thru learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok
<brousch> nice
<brousch> well many of us in this channel are python programmers, so feel free to ask questions
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok i will you said i could ;)
<Blazeix> if you're new to programming, you might also try http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
<mydogsnameisrudy> look out
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok ill look at that too
<mydogsnameisrudy> maybe ill drive down to your meeting some time
<brousch> looong drive
<brousch> is detroit or ann arbor closer than grand rapids?
<mydogsnameisrudy> ann arbor is the closest
<mydogsnameisrudy> but it all the same 4 - 5 hours
<brousch> http://groups.google.com/group/michipug
<brousch> that's the ann arbor group
<mydogsnameisrudy> im going to do a local linux day up here this summer
<brousch> ouch. 5 hours
<brousch> that's like me driving to columbus!
<snap-l> brousch: It looks a little funky on my side
<mydogsnameisrudy> ya its a long drive
<snap-l> Might want to put "Sorry, there aren't..." centered under "upcoming meetings"
<snap-l> otherwise the left justification looks odd on larger monitors
<brousch> yeah, i haven't done much to prettify it for buig screens yet
<brousch> i'll combine the greeting and upcoming meetings into the same row on big screens
<mydogsnameisrudy> got a noob quiestion about python , how do you get a script to run with out terminal and python..  hmmm how do i say it ?
<brousch> put this at the very top of the script
<brousch> #!/usr/bin/env python
<brousch> then make the file executable
<brousch> chmod +x myfile.py
<mydogsnameisrudy> will the file need to in the folder?
<brousch> eh?
<mydogsnameisrudy> the script i write can be in any folder?
<brousch> yes, but usually you have a project folder for each project
<mydogsnameisrudy> ok
<mydogsnameisrudy> thx learning more
<brousch> ok, time to get out of here
<mydogsnameisrudy> l8r
<Blazeix> https://twitter.com/#!/wallingf/status/166997231671578625
<tjagoda> Did not get the canonical job
<tjagoda> However, I got a very long and personalized sorry email which encouraged me to apply again the future, so as far as rejections go, I call that a pretty good one
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-08
<brousch> they say you were too old?
<tjagoda> The reasoning was that they had applicants with higher levels of direct launchpad experience
<tjagoda> Which obviously translates to: Contribute the SHIT out of Launchpad
<rick_h> tjagoda: sorry man
<tjagoda> rick_h: Just make tons of bugs so that they have to hire MORE support people
<snap-l> I have been cut
<snap-l> hair cut, that is
<rick_h> woot
<greg-g> rick_h: have you ordered any replacement thinkpad nipples?
<greg-g> rick_h: on amazon they are $0.63 but with $5 shipping (ugh)
<greg-g> rick_h: should I just bit the bullet and do it?
<snap-l> greg-g: r get prime shipping
<Wolfger> Just had a fellow SCA member share a picture of his shield with me. Thought some of you modern-day geeks might get a kick out of it too: http://i.imgur.com/Lt9kN.jpg
<mydogsnameisrudy> morning
<rick_h> greg-g: yes, I've bought them a few time, and yea, I just look at it like "would I spend $5 ina store for them...yep"
<rick_h> and morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Something tells me QR codes aren't canonical for SCA. ;)
<snap-l> "I am Sir. Twaddleputt. I have come to avenge my ancestors. Learn more at http://ur1.ca/twaddleputt"
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> good morning
<Wolfger> (now that I'm at work, it's officially morning)
<Wolfger> Uh-oh. rick_h might become a SOPA supporter now....
<Wolfger> SOPA is âlike dealing with a lion which escaped from the zoo by blasting some kittens with a flamethrowerâ. http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/opinion/piracy-and-the-value-of-freedom/
<rick_h> missing the connection
<Wolfger> your distaste of all things cat
<Wolfger> nevermind. It was weak humor at best
<rick_h> sorry, too early for it
<snap-l> Good morning from the other screen
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> (s)
<snap-l> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-93DMm8HYg60/TyiRwI9jRlI/AAAAAAAABHQ/2XwrI0Vzjvo/s1600/Battle-Shots.jpg
<rick_h> brilliant!
<snap-l> Not sure how this works, though; does the person who made the shot get the drink, or does the opponent take the shot?
<rick_h> I think it's when you guess a hit, you take that shot
<rick_h> so if you lose, you're wasted
<rick_h> a couple of games of that and you're in for a rough night
<snap-l> Yeah, they mention it's shots of beer
<rick_h> ah, ok, well that's not quite century club level then
<snap-l> hard liquor, and you'd be toast after finding the carrier
<snap-l> Hell, I'd be toast after finding the sub. ;)
<rick_h> lol, all depends on what's in the shots I guess
<snap-l> 151, of course. Gotta have the flames of victory
<rick_h> woooo!
<snap-l> and belches you can ignite.
<Wolfger> sounds like a good Penguicon game
<Wolfger> shots of 151, when your opponent scores a hit on you, light the shot and shoot it
<Wolfger> and keep the fire extinguishers handy!
<Wolfger> Man, I've been getting tons of +'s on my comments on jcastro's post about Episode I. :-)
<rick_h> ok, funny https://twitter.com/#!/FOSSNewsChannel/status/164852353760100353
<jcastro> I <3 that account
<Wolfger> huh. link gives me blank twitter page
<Wolfger> what's most surprising is that Twitter isn't blocked completely
<rick_h> jcastro: heh, just saw it because it was RT. Looks funny
<rick_h> krondor: CHC tonight just a reminder/heads up
<snap-l> FOSS News = followed
<krondor> rick_h: thanks for the reminder, hoping to make it.
<krondor> lack of a work proxy and moved to rbenv and I have a working ruby env
<Wolfger> snap-l, jcastro, and all other metal heads: Groupon for Megadeth, etc at the Palace http://goo.gl/nrkly
<jcastro> IF ONLY I LIVED HERE
<krondor> my spouse grabbed a bunch of vouchers for that when she was at MSU credit union.  $10 lower bowl or soemthing.
<snap-l> Oh, nice!
<jcastro> nice!
<jcastro> I've never seen Lacuna Coil live
<snap-l> Wonder if it's not selling well
<snap-l> first time I've ever seen a groupon for a concert
<jcastro> me too
<jcastro> megadeth sold out by themselves last time
<snap-l> Though you have to get it at the palace box office
<jcastro> but then again that was 20th ann. of Rust in Peace
<snap-l> Something tells me that'll be a clusterfuck
<jcastro> I hate long concerts now
<jcastro> I am too old to sit through 4 bands
<Wolfger> snap-l: I've done a groupon through the Palace box office, no issues at all
<Wolfger> One of the local MMA promotions started doing Groupons for their Palace shows. It was pretty cool. Just walked up to the window with groupon and ID and they handed me my tickets.
<snap-l> There's a big difference between MMA and Megadeth
<Wolfger> I would imagine so
<brousch> i seem to be a decent logo maker, but i sure can't design a pretty web site
<Wolfger> More people waiting in that line
<Wolfger> brousch: just make your website consist of a giant logo and nothing else? ;-)
<brousch> that might work
<brousch> ah, ok, found a blue theme that is much nicer
<rick_h> heh, wasn't that the about.me theory
<rick_h> your design is one large photo
<snap-l> Penguicon registration page is up
<Wolfger> woo
<Wolfger> t
<Wolfger> So, here's today's CNN poll: "Should welfare recipients be banned from spending federal aid in strip clubs and casinos?"
<Wolfger> 93% say yes, which tells me that a whole lot of people really haven't thought this thing through.
<snap-l> Hah, apparently gpodder is brain-dead
<snap-l> one of my listeners complained that he got a .zip file of ogg files for Episode 40
<snap-l> apparently gpodder doesn't adhere to the enclosure tag, and just downloads extensions it recognizes
<snap-l> which would happen to be this link: http://www.archive.org/download/Metal-libreAlbums/Raze-ManVsMachineogg.zip
<brousch> ok, i need to scrape this web page and extract the information from each meeting into a CSV or something. is beautifulsoup still the best thing? http://www.grpug.org/meetings/
<brousch> i cannot pull directly from the database because it is GAE. i need to upload something to that, but the old GAE django patches are so broken i cannot upload anything
<rick_h> brousch: yea, BS or you can always go node.js and parse with a JS library :P
<brousch> why would i do that?
<rick_h> brousch: because you can treat it like a web page with js selectors
<rick_h> doing things like $('.class').each() .... or Y.all('.class')...
<brousch> maybe, but my javascript skills are about 10% of my python skills
<jrwren> step up your js skills.
<snap-l> Man, Windows is definitely not Linux
<snap-l> especially when it comes to Python
<jrwren> truth.
<jrwren> but what specifically?
<snap-l> YAML and Crypto libraries that require compliation. :)
<brousch> this web page parsing is fun
<rick_h> brousch: you serious or sarcastic
<rick_h> I think most of us would assume the latter having done screen scraping in the past
<brousch> no, it is fun when it goes well
<brousch> i have hit a wall though. the meeting abstracts have no unique div and have 0-4 <p>s
<brousch> i will just manually hack something in
<mydogsnameisrudy> join #kubuntu-offtopic
<greg-g> no thanks
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> greg-g: did you order your replacement nipple covers?
<mydogsnameisrudy> hmmm strange asking about nipple covers
<rick_h> only on Tues, it's Wed
<mydogsnameisrudy> day dont matter its still strange
<rick_h> :)
<greg-g> rick_h: not yet :)
<greg-g> the amazon tabs are still open
<rick_h> greg-g: I got these last time: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ZYXBEI/ref=wms_ohs_product
<rick_h> not sure which cover is your usual
<rick_h> also gotten the official lenovo box, but I don't care for half of the types
<greg-g> rick_h: I'm a soft cap, apparently
<greg-g> though, haven't tried the others, but I like the cat-tounge feel
<rick_h> yea, that's my fav
<rick_h> snap-l: for you https://twitter.com/#!/buckleysangel/status/167173562623467520
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/llatb-punkinst/ <- Album I'm going to pillage like a mofo for Lococast interstitials
<rick_h> hah
<snap-l> rick_h: Yes, yes, yes!
<snap-l> ECSYMASCRIPT!
<Wolfger> mydogsnameisrudy must not be familiar with Penguicon if he thinks that's strange...
<greg-g> Wolfger++
<Wolfger> You coming back to MI for pcon, greg-g?
<greg-g> I wish
<Wolfger> Maybe after the baby's a bit older (e.g. no longer a baby)...
<greg-g> or when I have enough of a reason to get PC or work to pay for it :)
<snap-l> greg-g: WE'll get you on as a GoH
<greg-g> plz do!
<snap-l> "greg-g makes Creative Commons tick, sing, and dance"
<rick_h> "especially dance!"
<Wolfger> Speaking of Penguicon, next Friday night is their "bring a friend" party at the new con hotel. Grab somebody you think might like p-con, and drag 'em to the party.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pghyp/homework_replace_a_word_in_a_line_of_text/
<snap-l> I so want to write this guy a solution that shells out through bash, python, and perl
<snap-l> if for nothing else than for putting his code in an image file
<rick_h> hah
<Wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> My Answer: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/MdotgxtgvmsLS6WNr2YL/
<snap-l> Even better, it doesn't actually work
<brousch> whoa, cool https://www.browserstack.com/features
<snap-l> Gah
<snap-l> CoffeeScript also includes a Ruby idiom of allowing suffixed if statements:
<snap-l> alert "It's cold!" if heat < 5
<snap-l> Ruby idiom? RUBY IDIOM?
<snap-l> Perl was suffixing when suffixing wasn't cool.
<snap-l> Perl suffixes better than any other language I know
<snap-l> suffix this!
<brousch> looks annoying
<snap-l> Trust me, it's handy
<snap-l> Good for those single-line if statements
<snap-l> die "Bizarro world" if 1==2
<brousch> fun times when that 1 liner becomes 2
<snap-l> Nah, it's simple:
<brousch> THERE SHOULD BE ONE WAY TO WRITE IFS
<snap-l> a = 5 if b == 2
<snap-l> becomes
<snap-l> flag = true if b == 2
<snap-l> if flag:
<snap-l>   a = 5
<snap-l>   c = 3
<snap-l> ;)
 * snap-l is a smart-ass today.
<jrwren> snap-l: its amazing how many rubyists never did perl.
<jrwren> they think its new.
<jrwren> they don't realize its just a copy of perl only prettier.
<jrwren> do { line1;line2; } if 1==2
<jrwren> snap-l: but if that is from coffeescript docs, keep in mind coffeescript was initially written in ruby.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I know
<snap-l> Just sets my teeth on edge when I hear something like that.
<jrwren> i'm with ya.
<jrwren> same with node.
<jrwren> i talk to these people who are gaga about node.
<jrwren> and I say "so its twisted or POE"
<jrwren> and they give me this blank look.
<jrwren> and I roll my eyes
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> No, Node is the first async
<snap-l> Node created async. :)
<jrwren> k
<jrwren> now... they actually DO have a point, that by not having any sync IO calls, they cna do it better.
<jrwren> e.g. POE and twisted still use blocking file operations that are ultimately open/read/write(2)
<snap-l> Right
<snap-l> But just because you do it better doesn't mean you invented it
<jrwren> right
<snap-l> Ford applied the assembly line successfully to the automobile, but didn't invent either
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> and really? is disk IO with node that great? I know net is, because of they way they use socket and their libev equivalent
<jrwren> but disk?
<jrwren> do they open with O_ASYNC and their loop checks for SIGIO ?
<jrwren> or do they have a SIGIO handler?
 * jrwren goes and looks
<jrwren> oh... node IS on libev. fuk i had no idea.
<jrwren> i thought they had their own event loop.
<jrwren> fuk the node fans harder. i'm less impressed
<jrwren> and libev has async file io.
<jrwren> wow, awesome.
<jrwren> and... a perlmod.  ev.pod
<jrwren> LOLz
<jrwren> given this new information, i shall now call node a port of ev.pod to v8/js :)
<jrwren> LUST!!!! https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp
<snap-l> jrwren: You're mean. :)
<jrwren> i tweeted a summary of our conversation
<jrwren> i'm mean.
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Gah, I'm irritated
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball_Hall_of_Fame:_The_Williams_Collection <- Wii version gets Jive Time and Sorceror, PS3 and XBox versions get Arabian NIghts, Medieval Madness and No Good Gofers
<snap-l> Two tables that I love (MM and NGG) aren't on the Wii version
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-09
<tjagoda> hm
<tjagoda> Ubuntu One Windows Client is stuck in an infinite "Getting Information" phase
<greg-g> its downloading the web!
<rick_h> woot!
<tjagoda> its a valid login
<tjagoda> and then it just chills out
<tjagoda> Like I have the largest password in recorded history and it's transferring it one character at a time over 18 relayed 56K modems.
<tjagoda> oh yay
<tjagoda> its a bug with no current fix
<tjagoda> =(
<brousch> anyone have a good json viewer?
<tjagoda> YOUR EYES
<tjagoda> DUH
<jrwren> yeah.
<brousch> my eyes are bleeding
<jrwren> wtf json viewer?
<brousch> it is solid text
<rick_h> brousch: there's a good json plugin in Chrome
<rick_h> brousch: and what's his name posted some plugin snippets for making vim pretty print json and encode it back
<rick_h> brousch: http://blog.pault.ag/post/15698933492/json-vim-love
<brousch> found this http://jsonlint.com/
<brousch> how would i use that vim thing?
<rick_h> brousch: so you need to grab the two python scripts and put them in ~/bin or whatever you use for custom commands in your $PATH
<rick_h> and then create the vim shortcuts he points out in there for your .vimrc
<rick_h> then download your .json file and run the expand command, view/edit, and then runthe compress command
<brousch> geez
<rick_h> ?
<brousch> ah, i get it
<brousch> woohoo, i have my scrape in valid json
<Wolfger> rick_h: snap-l: is there no newer version of pycurl for version of Python > 2.5? Or is my problem strictly with the Windows .exe installer?
<Wolfger> a little disheartening that pycurl seems last-update 3.5 years ago
<tjagoda> awesome
<tjagoda> Unity on windows eventually moves
<tjagoda> I just have to leave it alone for like 2 hours
<tjagoda> UBUNTU I LOVE HOW YOUR QUALITY WORKS. ='(
<rick_h> Wolfger: what are you using it for?
<rick_h> Wolfger: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pycurl/7.18.1 says 7.18.1 :)
<rick_h> Wolfger: if you're just fetching urls, use requests instead
<rick_h> Wolfger: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/requests
<Wolfger> rick_h: I downloaded 7.18.2, and there's source for 7.19.0
<Wolfger> I'm using it for this: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2010/04/tutorial-use-twitters-new-real-time-stream-api-in-python.ars
<rick_h> Wolfger: ah, yea so you need streaming support then yea, pycurl you go
<rick_h> don't know requests supports that at all
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pghyp/homework_replace_a_word_in_a_line_of_text/c3p6jg5
<snap-l> Apparently nobody liked my solution
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> yep
<brousch> 5:15AM "gotta go poopies" wake up from the boy
<rick_h> I need a service that will send a flaming bag of poo to a requested person on the internet
<rick_h> http://tumblr.atbrox.com/post/17312856268/small-advice-for-test-driven-development-in-python
<rick_h> brousch: hey, that's cool
<brousch> rick_h: i think the postal services frowns on that
<rick_h> Right now we're still at the "grunt...grunt grrrrr"
<rick_h> "Do you have to go poop Michael? Want to sit on the potty?"
<brousch> we made great strides in the last month
<rick_h> "grrr...nope..."
<brousch> 1. shower in the middle of the night if he pooped in bed
<Wolfger> brousch: then don't mail it. Personal delivery
<brousch> 2. star wars lego advent calendar. open a door every time he done good
<brousch> Wolfger: crowd source it? that might work
<brousch> http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/7958_Star_Wars_Advent_Calendar
 * Wolfger runs out to register flamingpoocloud.com
<Wolfger> and flamingpoocrowd.com
<brousch> technically i think it could work. legally ... i don't want to think about it
<Wolfger> rick_h: so when I asked about pycurl last night, why did nobody mention "pip"?
<rick_h> Wolfger: huh? You didn't ask "How can I install packages in python"
<brousch> rick_h: how about a virtual flaming poo. maybe a scratch-n-sniff postcard with a nasty picture?
<rick_h> you just asked "Where is the latest pycurl"
<snap-l> rick_h: I think we have our start-up: Flamingbagofpoo.com
<Wolfger> I mean... it didn't work, it errored out, but it would have been very nice and simple if it *had* worked. :-)
<rick_h> Wolfger: yea, pycurl needs to compile so you'd have to install the header files for it to pip install it
<brousch> sudo apt-get install python-pycurl
<snap-l> If you're going to move to doctests because other stuff is hard, you're doing it wrong.
<Wolfger> brousch: I was doing this on Win7, so that command would have done nothing for me :-p
<brousch> ew
<brousch> download virtualbox. install kubuntu VM. sudo apt-get install python-pycurl
<snap-l> Or install activestate python and hope they have it packaged
<snap-l> bbiab
<Wolfger> snap-l: I <3 ActiveState, and no they don't.
<brousch> Wolfger: did they show you virtualenvs?
<Wolfger> the who what now?
<brousch> slackers
<Wolfger> I just asked one question, got 2 answers, and went on about my bidness
<brousch> pip and virtualenvs go together like peanut butter and jelly
<Wolfger> but after learning about pip, I figure I should have got 3 answers and one of them should have been "try pip", but oh well. :-)
<Wolfger> anyhow, virtualbox and Kubuntu is not really the path I want to take. The idea is I want whatever I do to be usable on both Win a *nix
<Wolfger> s/a/and/
<brousch> yeah, i was just kidding with that
<brousch> but virtualenvs are a real thing
<brousch> a self-contained python environment
<Wolfger> so teach me
<brousch> so you can install and uninstall python modules for your project without mucking up your system python
<brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv
<brousch> unzip it, cd to it, python setup.py install
<brousch> then you can create virtualenvs with: `virtualenv --distribute MyVirtualEnv`
<brousch> --distribute tells it to install pip
<brousch> geekers. i had a big video artifact in the middle of my screen i couldn't get rid of so i started closing all my programs to shut down and restart. the last thing i closed was firefox and that got rid of the artifact
<snap-l> Wolfger: Oh, that sucks
<snap-l> Definitely SOL-ville, then
<brousch> what'd i miss?
<snap-l> brousch: Reading scrollback
<brousch> i lost scrollback before 8:47
<brousch> was helping Wolfger and wondered if i missed something
<snap-l> Nah, nothing important
<snap-l> was just commiserating that ActiveState doesn't have PyCurl packaged
<brousch> why use activestate instead of regular python?
<Wolfger> honestly? I dunno. Habit.
<Wolfger> ActiveState has always been the best Perl solution on Windows
<rick_h> brousch: it's what happens when a perl guy goes to python :P
<Wolfger> lol
<snap-l> rick_h: This keyboard is faking me out. :)
<rick_h> ?
<snap-l> Trying to find the page up / page down keys, and they're near the edge
<snap-l> which is where the number pad goes. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: ah, the 10less part of it lol
<snap-l> Yeah
<rick_h> snap-l: so you're not allowed to think about it until day 3
<rick_h> I find that's how long it takes me to adjust
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h> :)
<rick_h> you have to get past the "it's just different" part to evaluate
<snap-l> I feel like one of those hacker movies, though. I can hear myself type again. :)
<rick_h> you'll tune it out :)
<snap-l> OK
<rick_h> think of it like haptic feedback on an iphone
<snap-l> Not helping. :)
<brousch> ok, in vim 'G' goes to the end of the file. i need '1G' to go to the first line?
<snap-l> gg
<rick_h> 1gg
<snap-l> (and no, I'm not saying "good game", I mean gg)
<brousch> ok, that's better
<rick_h> 271gg
<snap-l> gg defaults to the first line of the fil
<snap-l> e
<rick_h> any line nubmer
<rick_h> oh yea, no line number gg does top
<brousch> ok, that will work
<snap-l> also 271G will go to line 271
<rick_h> sorry, I read that as "how to do get to a XG line
<rick_h> but yea, gg to of file, any #gg will jump to that line (very handy for test failures/exception tracebacks)
<brousch> my tests never fail
<brousch> mostly because they do not exist
<rick_h> I'll leave that one alone
<snap-l> if True == True:
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> self.assert(True==True)
<brousch> i've been using vim exclusively. the vim book as my bathroom reading is helping
<snap-l> TMI
<Wolfger> brousch: 1G is first line, 10G is line 10, etc
<rick_h> brousch: awesome!
<Wolfger> oh, sorry, I see snap-l already said that
<rick_h> Wolfger: yea, but gg is faster than shift-g imo
<rick_h> but that's preference
<brousch> yeah, it is
<rick_h> http://greenteapress.com/complexity/ looks interesting
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, gg is hard-wired for me over 1G
<rick_h> free pdf
<brousch> sort of from o'reilly?
<Wolfger> gg > 1G (2 vs 3 keystrokes). I'll try to remember that one.
<snap-l> brousch: They publish his books
<snap-l> The think stats book is pretty good, although I'm a little disappointed that it's not self-0cntained
<snap-l> you'll need to have a network connection to head to wikipedia for some of the concepts
<rick_h> oh, how much of the code/etc is "go download it here"
<rick_h> yea, same here. I've not gotten very far into it and I think that's part of the reason
<jrwren> snap-l: <3 U http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pghyp/homework_replace_a_word_in_a_line_of_text/c3p6jg5
<snap-l> and unfortunately wikipedia is not particularly easy to get into if you're not familiar with the concepts.
<snap-l> jrwren: Thank you. :)
<jrwren> brousch: no need for virtual box. just run testdrive, choose kubuntu, install python-pycurl :)
<snap-l> jrwren: You'd be surprised how much Java code I've seen that does shells like that.
<brousch> jrwren: testdrive runs on windows?
<snap-l> like shelling out and doing ls.
<jrwren> windows?  oh sorry. I just assumed you have linux available.
<jrwren> plus: gg is starcraft meme.
<brousch> jrwren: pity poor Wolfger and his Windows usage
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> Is it bad of me to want to write something that works on both OS's?
<brousch> yes. that makes windows more useful
<brousch> you must release for linux-only
<snap-l> Wolfger: What's your target audience?
<Wolfger> snap-l: Twitter users
<jrwren> its not bad of you.
<brousch> a desktop client for twitter?
<jrwren> but you've run into a limit of your cross platform system of choice.
<jrwren> purhaps another system would be better suited?
<Wolfger> brousch: The working name of what I want to write is Twitter Hashtag Chat (#THC)
<Wolfger> basically I want to write a client that can turn any twitter hashtag into and IRC-style chat
<jrwren> Wolfger: ++
<jrwren> and my followers list should be an irc style chat
<jrwren> and it should be right in irssi. lets patch irssi :)
<Wolfger> :-)
<brousch> these days i tend to think like "if it can be a webapp, it should be a webapp"
<jrwren> funny, i think "if it can be an ipad app, it should be an ipad app"
<jrwren> i had twitter in irssi working via some convoluted irc-xmpp-twitter double proxy. it didn't work very well
<brousch> otherwise you have to do it for 3 different desktop platforms and 2 different mobile platforms
<jrwren> yes, but you can leverage those 5 platforms to the fullest. Web is lowest common denominator.
<jrwren> esp. if web means ancient IE browsers too.
 * Wolfger cringes
<brousch> i am good with lowest common denominator
<snap-l> I'm good with LCD, as long as we agree on a reasonable lower bound. :)
<jrwren> i'm not.
<brousch> give me phonegap or give me death!
<jrwren> phonegap isn't LCD.
<jrwren> ie7 is LCD :[
<snap-l> IE is not a reasonable lower bound. ;)
<Wolfger> ie7 is mgcd
<Wolfger> Most Godawful Common Denominator
<brousch> anyone using ie7 can go suck an egg
<snap-l> IE7 is a great bootstrapping device
<snap-l> for heading to getfirefox
<snap-l> or chrome. :)
<Wolfger> The webapp idea does have some merit... I have no issue with telling IE7 users to suck an elf.
<brousch> ie8 is available for winxp
<Wolfger> The major problem with a webapp, though, is that at some point in time, if what I write is any good, I'll need professional hosting
<snap-l> Wolfger: Regard that as a goal, not a roadblock
<jrwren> why is that a problem?
<jrwren> hosting is CHEAP
<snap-l> ++
<Wolfger> it is?
<jrwren> hell, free... get the free heroku dyno
<tjagoda> Good morning fellow windows enthusiasts.
<rick_h> yep
<brousch> google app engine is free
<snap-l> Amazon is cheap
<Wolfger> I guess i haven't looked at hosting in a while... but used to be that the free/cheap stuff was not suitable for anything other than a blog :-p
<rick_h> and I think amazon still has the free mini ec2
<brousch> amazon is like $15/mo
<brousch> webfaction is cheap. $8.50/mo
<snap-l> Wolfger: So there are options for web hosting
<snap-l> Hell, if you need part of a linode instance, I can set you up an account.
<brousch> Wolfger: i also worry about scaling. a couple of my ideas would require a lot of resources if they got popular
<Wolfger> Yeah... but even $8.50 a month is over $100 a year to pay so that other people can benefit from my hard work. Doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm just cheap... :-p
<rick_h> meh, scale when you need to
<rick_h> at least then you can justify the costs
<jrwren> GAE is free to a point, just like heroku.
<snap-l> Wolfger: You're fooling yourself
<Wolfger> snap-l: probably :-)
<jrwren> Wolfger: put up ads, get some of that $ back.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Look at scaling up as a goal, not a roadblock
<snap-l> scaling up is a nice problem to have
<snap-l> design with scalability in mind, of course, but don't let that deter you.
<snap-l> That's like worrying that Twitter will purchase your hard work (or clone it)
<snap-l> I can think of worse problems to have
<snap-l> That's a sign of success IMHo
<snap-l> pep talk over. :)
<jrwren> you don't even have to design with scalability in mind in the HIP sense. Look at stack overflow. their architecture is based on a 10+ yr old idea of "scaling" and it works well.
<jrwren> ignore the trends and do what works.
<rick_h> exactly, every problem has it's issues, but you'd be surprised how effective you can get to with just the normal scaling tricks/know how
<brousch> jrwren: do you use heroku?
<jrwren> not for prod
<jrwren> but some teammates do.
<jrwren> i just play/test with heroku right now
<jrwren> but I use it enough to know that I ove it.
<jrwren> LVOE IT
<jrwren> wow, typing.
<rick_h> hah, he's so in love he can't even say it
<rick_h> yea, I'm nervous with how it would price at scale, but you're just hosting a normal app you can deploy elsewhere if you get there
<snap-l> Way to instill confidence: 'Like "real" programming languages, Bash has functions, though in a somewhat limited implementation.'
<brousch> looks much less wonky than GAE
<rick_h> brousch: yea, because you're not really specific to their api as much
<jrwren> snap-l: where do you find this shit?
<jrwren> i've no idea what bash limitations bash functions have over any other lang
<jrwren> i think the huge difference for me is with GAE you have to remodel your data to fit what GAE gives you.  With heroku you get to use postgresql. I LOVE Postgresql
<rick_h> yea, bonus points for that being the default!
<jrwren> i recently learned about postgresql hstore and loved it more.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's pretty slick
<jrwren> and the json coming in postgresql 9.2 looks so awesome.
<rick_h> still not sure I'd go that route or just use a key/val store elsewhere, but the fact that you can tie it into a query with your relational data is sweetness
<jrwren> rick_h: and its indexed, or can be indexed.
<brousch> i dislike managing my own server which is why i look at GAE. i love these cloud services that are managed by someone else
<snap-l> jrwren: I use this thing called Google. :)
<rick_h> jrwren: right
<rick_h> brousch: yea, ep.io gondor.io heroku ... a whole world out there for python apps
<rick_h> heroku seems the most complete though
<brousch> i watched a talk by one of the ep.io guys. it was kind of scary
<Wolfger> sounds like I need to do some research tonight...
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> doing some crazy stuff a low level
<rick_h> well yea, when it becomes your job to scale others...need to get your @#$ together
<brousch> http://blip.tv/djangocon/deployment-daemons-and-datacenters-5573370
<brousch> very little django in that talk ;)
<rick_h> oh thank goodness, finally someone else says 0MQ isn't a message queue
<snap-l> rick_h: But but but, it says Message Queue right on the tin. :)
<jrwren> its not an MQ?
<rick_h> it's more a socket you build on...
<rick_h> fancy socket with built in awesome bits, but 0MQ is a horrible name for it imo
<jrwren> but you write data to the socket and it sits there waiting for someone to read it
<jrwren> that is by def a queue
<rick_h> right, but it's not rabbitmq or other mq ootb. You write the bits that make all that happen
<rick_h> it's a level below MQ and above socket
<jrwren> i see
<jrwren> you don't write the bits to make it queue though, right?
<rick_h> kind of, there's built in, but you define/set it up and how the queue works
<rick_h> it's like MQ lego blocks I guess
<jrwren> cool
<rick_h> yes, it's built for building queues
<snap-l> Sounds a little petty, personally
<rick_h> meh, try it out and let me know if you want to put it in the same board as rabbit and such
<snap-l> (the assertion that 0mq isn't a "true" MQ)
<rick_h> it's a drastic different tool
<rick_h> it's like saying that you can write files with cat...must be an editor
<snap-l> it's not?
<rick_h> when I list out editors for linux, I"ll have vi, eclipse, cat
<rick_h> now, do you really think cat belongs in that list?
<snap-l> emacs is just a fancy way of calling cat. :)
<rick_h> totally, which is how 0MQ is a "message queue"
<snap-l> Editor Making Accessing Cat Simple.
<rick_h> heh
<snap-l> http://www.zeromq.org/docs:welcome-from-amqp
<snap-l> I think that's the major difference right there.
<snap-l> similar to XML vs JSON. ;)
<jrwren> rick_h: you did see snap-l's string replace in java today, right?
<jrwren> or yesterday
<rick_h> I think this is it: AMQP is a family of messaging protocols, while ÃÂMQ is a library of messaging functionality. You do not use AMQP directly but rather download and use a specific AMQP implementation such as OpenAMQ or RabbitMQ.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea
<snap-l> I love how the java folks essentially voted that comment into oblivion
<snap-l> Totally took it seriously.
<rick_h> well it was a bit of a crapping on some student trying to do homework :P
<jrwren> NO HOMEWORK!
<snap-l> True, I was being a dick
<rick_h> I mean, did you expect it to be voted to the top?
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh hell no
<snap-l> I expected a little more "hah hah, no"
<snap-l> and not "You're doing it wrong"
<rick_h> true
<jrwren> on /. it would be 5 "Funny"
<snap-l> On hacker news, it would be lead story. ;)
<snap-l> MAN WRITES SHITTY JAVA CODE. COMMENCE THE FLOGGING
<Wolfger> that's news?
<snap-l> just accidentally discovered my new favorite vim shortcut: CTRL-w o
<_stink_> ahh nice
<brousch> speaking of _stink_ http://webctor.com/articles/fart_facts_infographic,659,1.html
<_stink_> i'm so glad this is now going to be part of my workstation's network log
<rick_h> huh?
<brousch> i wasn't going to paste it here, but _stink_ spoke up just after i read it
<_stink_> glad i could help
<tjagoda> ooh, sysadmin opening at geeknet
<snap-l> tjagoda: link?
<tjagoda> http://thinkgeek.theresumator.com/apply/ju71ZO/System-Administrator-Geeknet.html
<tjagoda> I might apply
<tjagoda> I dont have much load balancing experience though
<snap-l> Looks like they folded the position I used to have into  something a little more all-encompasing
<tjagoda> Good company, or company of douches?
<snap-l> tjagoda: Definitely apply for that if you think you're interested
<snap-l> Good company. They left me, I didn't leave them
<snap-l> There was some definite political foo that happened when I was let go. It's probably a lot different now than when I was there.
<snap-l> But Jacob was one of the best bosses I've worked with. Extremely fair, and knows what he wants
<tjagoda> One of those "we're eliminating this position" let go's?
<snap-l> Company was going through staff reductions to save costs.
<snap-l> Was also around the time that Hemos and Nate Oostendorp were let go from the company.
<snap-l> There were several rounds of layoffs, unfortunately
<snap-l> But, in all honesty, it was a great experience.
<snap-l> I would apply for it, save for I'm not really that good with administration, and the on-call cycle was brutal.
 * snap-l does not deal well with sleep-dep
<tjagoda> Do I get free/discounted thinkgeek stuff if hired?
<snap-l> FNORD.
<jrwren> did you work with wolf?
<jrwren> my coworkers were not amused by my amusement that nodejs is just a js port of libev/ev.POD
<jrwren> *sigh*
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h> jrwren: oh well
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, wolf was there when i was there.
<jrwren> snap-l: how was it working with Wolf?
<snap-l> jrwren: Didn't work directly with him, but he's definitely a very smart person
<rick_h> hmm, the laptop is rocking on the coffee shop table...wtf. Case warp?
<snap-l> also pretty eccentric
<snap-l> rick_h: Ruh roh
<brousch> rick_h: lost a foot?
<snap-l> my sis-in-law managed to warp a laptop. The top of the screen was melted
<snap-l> rick_h: Could also be a warped table. ;)
<rick_h> snap-l: I suppose, I haven't noticed it before
<rick_h> brousch: no, all feet accounted for
<rick_h> ugh, annoying
<jrwren> i'm watching that video posted earlier.http://blip.tv/djangocon/deployment-daemons-and-datacenters-5573370
<jrwren> he said, "we can't generate a password file with 25000 usernames"
<jrwren> but I don't see why not. I used to do it with 36000 usernames.
<jrwren> its really not a big deal at all
<rick_h> I think for them it's a matter of sync/write contention/updating/etc
<snap-l> I think once you get above 100, it's time to start thinking about LDAP.
<rick_h> since they've got such a big back end and it sounds like the effort of getting that going is a pita
<rick_h> but yea, I thought that was strange at first
<jrwren> i see, its the change.
<jrwren> you don't want to do it every time a new person signs up for your service.
<jrwren> that makes good sense
<jrwren> ty
<Wolfger> Time warp. I come back from lunch and there's all sorts of timestamps on irccloud... Today seems to be speeding through the year 4078.
<Wolfger> and I see people have been talking about me behind my back.
<rick_h> pretty much
<Wolfger> pretty sneaky, not using my nick so I wouldn't get the alert :-p
<snap-l> Wolfger: Wolf, not Wolfger. :)
<snap-l> It's not my fault that I've worked with both of you. :)
<Wolfger> somehow, I think it *is* your fault.
<jrwren> i was about to say???
<snap-l> I hope the week is going well for you so far!Â I'm just getting in touch to ask
<snap-l> if you'reÂ in need of anyÂ freelance writingÂ atÂ Craig Maloney - if so, it'd be an
<snap-l> honor to help out and I would love to get involved if you have any need for me.
<snap-l> And all they ask for is a link
<snap-l> Love form-letter scams. :)
<rick_h> lol
<_stink_> write back and tell them how terribly your week is going.
<Wolfger> What, you don't want any freelance writing over there at Craig Maloney?
<snap-l> Yes, please ghost-write all of my blog entries for me for the cost of my immortal SEO
<snap-l> Should respond with "That would be great. I was going to blog on how to make NP = P. Here's a wikipedia link."
<snap-l> "I'll gladly post your article if you can conclusively prove NP = P"
<_stink_> heh
<Wolfger> That's easy
<Wolfger> where N=1
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> oh, we weren't doing simple algebra?
<snap-l> Wolfger: no
<jrwren> did you ever fix your pycurl problems?
<Wolfger> jrwren: No, I gave up in frustration. My brain also wasn't working all that well last night.
<Wolfger> OK, who's got the Little Monsters beta invites? http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/tech/social-media/lady-gaga-social-little-monsters/index.html
<Wolfger> jrwren: and people today are convincing me to go the web route, so setting up pycurl on Win 7 may be a completely moot point.
<jrwren> web? yuk.
<jrwren> how about C++?
<jrwren> QT runs nicely on all platforms :)
<jrwren> and C++11 is a rather nice language
<snap-l> jrwren: Is that compared with previous iterations of C++, or on it's own merits ? :)
<jrwren> prev C++
<jrwren> its own merits still stand. FAST low level shit
<jrwren> Wolfger: pycurl looks abandonded. is it abandoned or just "done"
<Wolfger> I was wondering how long it would be til somebody mentioned C++11 in here...
<Wolfger> I was thinking pycurl looked abandoned too. Unusual to see no updates in 3 years
<Wolfger> Of course, I was trying to install it to follow along with a 2 year old tutorial
<Wolfger> The tech world moves too fast and/or I move too slow :-p
<jrwren> yeah, that tutorial doesn't work anyway. the auth model is different now
<Wolfger> well then Google should remove it from the first page of search results :-p
<jrwren> lol
<Wolfger> I was like "wow, that sounds incredibly pertinent to me"
<snap-l> Google is just giving you want you want
<brousch> rezound bummer http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/09/htc-details-ice-cream-sandwich-upgrade-schedule-rezound-not-in-the-first-batch/
<snap-l> brousch: I wonder what makes CDMA such a beast to support
<snap-l> because it seems anything on Verizon gets it right up the arse
<snap-l> Amybe the problem is Verizon all-along.
<jcastro> snap-l: because the rest of the world uses GSM
<brousch> att and sprint use gsm?
<jcastro> att does
<jcastro> I am pretty sure sprint does
<rick_h> I thought sprint was a bastard cdma thing
<jcastro> oh I am wrong
<jcastro> it's like custom CDMA
<rick_h> right
<brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_wireless_communications_service_providers
<jcastro> This is why I had to import my Nexus. :(
<brousch> so ATT and T-mobile are the biggest GSM in the USA
<rick_h> they're really the only two which is why ATT buying T-mobile made sense
<brousch> cdma was part of the problem with the earlier galaxy nexus aosp thing http://androidcommunity.com/google-clarifies-cdma-debacle-still-supporting-developer-phones-not-publishing-aosp-code-20120206/
<snap-l> Yeah, it seems that CDMA is preventing Android folks from having nice things.
<brousch> might be time to switch
<Wolfger> speaking of Androids.... I got a text last night that 2.3 is available for my Galaxy S now. Anybody have opinions about upgrading from 2.2 to 2.3?
<rick_h> Wolfger: it's nice
<Wolfger> Specifically, I'm worried that newer OS on same hardware might be a dog
<rick_h> naw
<Wolfger> ok, cool
<brousch> i run 2.3 on my original droid. it's no slower than 2.2
<Wolfger> I also hear from some people that I should root the damned thing :-p
<rick_h> heh
<_stink_> yeah, AT&T is telling Captivate owners that 2.3 is available
<Wolfger> took so long to get 2.2, I didn't think we'd ever get 2.3
<Wolfger> and I was so unimpressed with 2.1 -> 2.2 when I finally got it that I didn't care
<jrwren> on iOS things get faster with new revs :p
<rick_h> jrwren: riiight...did they ever get ios4 running on those 3gs devices without it sucking donkey balls?
<jrwren> its likely there are more optimizations in the newer build
<jrwren> rick_h: yeah, i ran it for yrs.
<jrwren> ios4.1 fixed tons and 4.2 fixed even more and was very fast
<jrwren> and ios5 runs great on 3gs too
<Wolfger> years?
<Wolfger> by my estimation, iOS 4 is < 2 years old
<Wolfger> since it came out right before I got my Captivate...
<snap-l> Guh, sinuses are kicking into overdrive
<Wolfger> Go, sinuses, go!
<snap-l> Nooooooooooooooooooo
<jrwren> huh?
<jrwren> oh.
<jrwren> i ran it for as long as it was out. how is htat :)
<jrwren> i always ran current and it always got faster with the exception of 3.2->4.0
<Wolfger> Hmm.
<Wolfger> The skeptic in me wonders if that was a neat trick... Make 4.0 a dog so that each subsequent revision makes it better, and people will not notice that 4.2 < 3.2 because 4.2 > 4.1 > 4.0
<Wolfger> Not saying 4.2 < 3.2, just speculating
<jrwren> could be.
<jrwren> but i doubt it.
<Wolfger> I'm convinced Apple's genius is more in manipulating humans than bits
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> that is SOOOooo @1990sLinuxUser
<Wolfger> what can I say? I was a Linux user in the 1990's
<Wolfger> I also don't see people lining up outside stores to get their hands on cool new tech without a little social manipulation.
<jrwren> so was I
<jrwren> i'm not convinced there is any Apple genius :)
<Wolfger> They make too much money for there to not be some sort of genius there
<jrwren> oh? its all about money?
<jrwren> because Exxon Mobile makes a lot of money. I'd not call it genius
<snap-l> ho boy
<Wolfger> that tends to be the major motivator in our society
<jrwren> !define genius
<snap-l>   Genius \Gen"ius\, n.; pl. E. {Geniuses}; in sense 1, L. {Genii}.
<snap-l>      [L. genius, prop., the superior or divine nature which is
<snap-l>      innate in everything, the spirit, the tutelar deity or genius
<snap-l>      of a person or place, taste, talent, genius, from genere,
<snap-l>      gignere, to beget, bring forth. See {Gender}, and cf.
<Wolfger> and when you manage to make a lot of it without resorting to winning the lottery, yeah, that took some smarts, because as much as you want to make it, somebody else wants to stop you from making it. Multiple somebodies, really
<snap-l>      {Engine}.]
<snap-l>      1. A good or evil spirit, or demon, supposed by the ancients
<snap-l>         to preside over a man's destiny in life; a tutelary deity;
<snap-l>         a supernatural being; a spirit, good or bad. Cf. {Jinnee}.
<snap-l> So we all have a little genius in each of us
<_stink_> sounds like something you'd hear in kindergarten.
<snap-l> So, stop rubbing that lamp and kindly get back to work. :)
<Wolfger> 5
<Wolfger> plural usually geniuses a : a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude <had a genius for getting along with boys â Mary Ross> b : extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ
<Wolfger> That is the definition from Merriam-Webster most appropriate to what I am talking about
<snap-l> I like mnine better
<snap-l> Yours doesn't lend itself to inappropriate rubbing jokes.
<Wolfger> stuff it, sinus boy
<Wolfger> :-)
<snap-l> When I get my hands on some pseudophedrine, I'm so kicking your ass. :)
<Wolfger> or as my dad used to say, "go blow it out your nose"
<snap-l> Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shut down the world.
<jrwren> you think apple is closed... http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx  UGH
<snap-l> I wish it wasn't a competition
<jrwren> i do.
<jrwren> competition is good.
<snap-l> competition to be the most closed?
<jrwren> no, that is bad.
<jrwren> i wish it were open competition
<snap-l> It's like having a competition to see who can be the biggest jackass
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> but firefox chrome competition has been GREAT for us.
<jrwren> OPEN!
<snap-l> WEll, some are lamenting that people are writing just for Webkit, and leaving out Firefox
<snap-l> Kevin Dangoor shared a piece about that
<rick_h> yea, but firefox has their own -moz prefix crap
<rick_h> I don't get that gripe at all
<rick_h> as a dev I'm the one that has to do -opera-stuff -moz-stuff -webkit-stuff
<rick_h> ARRRGG!!!!
<brousch> doesn't sass or compass take care of it for you?
<rick_h> it *can*
<rick_h> but it's not like it's ootb and they're complaining that not enough people use the tools to make things right
<rick_h> and their rounded corner example is a crock since wtf cares if there's no rounded corner on firefox. That's not breaking the web
<brousch> designers care!
<snap-l> As a former square, I care about rounded corners. ;)
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i just drag a Rounded Rectangle Button to the design surface
<brousch> to the waht?
<snap-l> the cloud, of course
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> i was partially lamenting my slavery to the XCode designer.
<snap-l> We drag the Rounded Rectangle to the design surface of the cloud.
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> Where we can make it magneta.
<snap-l> and then we shall telnet to the keyboard and download the printer for great happiness
<jrwren> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/tim-berners-lee-patent/
<snap-l> Shit, who patented Tim Berners Lee?
<snap-l> âMr. Berners-Lee, why are you here?â asked Doan.
<snap-l> "Because I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum"
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> snap-l: not according to the article
<brousch> more like to speak quietly and act shifty
<snap-l> Shhhh
<snap-l> Tim Berners Lee speaks softly, but with the force of 10 Chuck Norrises
 * snap-l thinks about putting up a Tim Berners Lee facts page.
<snap-l> http://blog.chromium.org/2012/02/gpu-accelerating-2d-canvas-and-enabling.html <- swoon
<jrwren> ms demoed that in ie10 2 yrs ago :p
<jrwren> of course, that hasn't shipped.
<Blazeix> yeah, it was interesting. the IE10 preview releases smoke chrome and firefox
<snap-l> I'm just in love with WebGL
<snap-l> and I'd expect IE10 to smoke Chrome and Firefox
<Blazeix> played around with three.js?
<Blazeix> that's a really impressive little library
<snap-l> after all, IE is part of the OS. It probably runs with admin privs. ;)
<jrwren> oh no... i'll bet ie10 still isn't out because its NOT smoking htem anymore.
<jrwren> they can't get it fast enough
<snap-l> Blazeix: No, I haven't.
<Blazeix> snap-l: it makes canvas and webgl rendering really easy, it's very fun
<snap-l> Oh, purdy.
<Blazeix> take a look at http://fuqua.io/misc/hole/
<Blazeix> that uses three.js and a third-party physics library
<Blazeix> with just a couple lines of code
<snap-l> couple? :)
<snap-l> But yeah, not nearly as much as I would think there would be
<Blazeix> a couple *interesting* lines of code :)
<greg-g> hah, I beat snap-l to blocking a spammer from !ubuntumi on identi.ca
<snap-l> ;)
<tjagoda> snap-l: writing the app now
<tjagoda> any protips?
<snap-l> Just highlight your OSS involvement
<tjagoda> Yay penguicon the resume point
<tjagoda> Bam
<tjagoda> Application sented
<tjagoda> Hopefully I get a reply from a human!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-10
<tjagoda> Aaron Thul's facebook says he's engaged
<tjagoda> mob him for congratulations immediately
<snap-l> Awesomesauce!
<snap-l> Something tells me he'll be moving to Canada
<jrwren> O_O
<tjagoda> I get that impression
<jrwren> never thought hed settle
<tjagoda> Don't think he really enjoys Detroit all that much
<snap-l> jjhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b04RzmSJyJE&feature=youtu.be
<tjagoda> lol
<tjagoda> I wonder if GeekNet will tell me if they decline
<snap-l> I think they wil
<tjagoda> Cool
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> GOod morning
<snap-l> Apparently my alarm decided to go AWOL this morning
<Wolfger> morning
<Wolfger> Uh... Hmm... http://ubuntuportal.com/time-drive-a-user-friendly-utility-for-back-up-your-files-under-ubuntu/
<Wolfger> There's a 2-day-old article about software that hasn't been touched since October 2009, and the article doesn't even link to the most recent home page for said software...
<snap-l> Has anyone tried timedrive?
<snap-l> I'm not sure I'd trust it yet.
<rick_h> timedrive? never heard of it
<snap-l> Well, whatever ships with Oneiric that asks you to back up your machine
<snap-l> Bwahahaha. rick_h, check lococast spam. :)
<snap-l> one of the spam bots puked up all of their responses into one post.
<snap-l> Whatâs up, just wanted to tell you, I loved this blog post. It was funny. Keep on posting!
<snap-l> Hi there, I just wanted to say, youâre wrong. Your post doesnât make any sense.
<rick_h> snap-l: nice, that's great. Now we can just block all of those
<snap-l> etc.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/02/10/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-9/
<Wolfger> that's priceless
<snap-l> Hello from the other screens.
<brousch> hello to the other screens
<snap-l> "@davepell: I wish all those girls who ignored me in high school could see how many tabs I have open in my browser right now."
<rick_h> lol
<Wolfger> ha!
<snap-l> I'm this close to turning off extension syncing in Chrome
<brousch> how many of those tabs have the FB pages of those girls up for stalking purposes?
<snap-l> I swear, uninstall does not mean install it on the other browser ad nauseum. Honest.
<snap-l> brousch: None. I'm off FB
<snap-l> And funny enough, they're not stalking me on my blog (That I'm aware of)
<brousch> you can't be off FB. that's being off the internet!
<brousch> next you'll tell me you don't use IE
<Wolfger> You can stalk people on FB without being on FB
<snap-l> Wolfger: I have FB blocked at the router (save for https, which for some reason doesn't work)
<brousch> you're gonna miss out on the $5 zuckerburg is sending every FB member after the IPO
<snap-l> SOmething tells me that's not going to happen.
<Wolfger> Did you really just put a $5 price tag on snap-l's soul?
<brousch> i'm sure it won't, but i bet it would spread like wildfire if i sent it as an email forward
<Wolfger> do it!
<Wolfger> create a "Facebook IPO" page on FB and tell everybody that they have to "like" it to get the payout from Zuckerberg
<brousch> "Mark Zuckerberg is going to make billions of dollars from Facebook's IPO, and he wants to share it with you! All you have to do is make sure your Facebook address and phone number are correct so he can send a $50 check once the deal is done."
<Wolfger> ...and then send that e-mail to the women you want to stalk. Brilliant!
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, my privacy is definitely worth $50. Sign me up
<brousch> FB should do that. think of all the good info they could get from it
<Wolfger> Hell, who in America wouldn't sell their privacy for $50 to a trusted upstanding public company?
<Wolfger> I think only the people who laugh at such tiny amounts of cash and wouldn't bend over to pick up a $50 bill.
<snap-l> Yeah, I mean,  they're having an IPO. That's like being part of the Better Business Bureau, isn't it?
<Wolfger> .... http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/55728/as-a-programmer-what-would-you-use-a-personal-wiki-for
<Wolfger> "either locally or online" ... WTF is the purpose of a personal, local wiki?
<brousch> keep your code snippets and notes
<brousch> http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
<Wolfger> why would you use a wiki for anything that isn't a collaborative effort, is really my wtf, I guess...
<Wolfger> You can keep code snippets and notes just fine in a non-wiki environment
<brousch> easy to edit and search
<Wolfger> or as the first comment says, "A wiki seems really complex. I've always used a text document"
<brousch> that's fine if you have 1 thing to note
<Wolfger> Heh. Well, my organizational skills are the stuff of legend (i.e. you may have heard of them, but nobody's seen them and they probably don't exist)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Wikis are good for folks who want a simple way to organize a lot of text
<snap-l> though personally I find them to be a bit comples for my needs
<snap-l> complex, rather
<brousch> evernote ftw
<snap-l> vi + git FTW. ;)
<rick_h> yea, sphinx + git + fabric ftw
<brousch> right, that is not complex at all :P
<rick_h> :P
<snap-l> I'm not the one adding Sphinx and fabric to the mix. :)
<snap-l> rick_h is the one lighting a cigarette with an acetalyne torch
<rick_h> I like to start fires with gasoline, jump right to the point!
<snap-l> hah
<brousch> I USE NAPALM TO FIRE UP MY GRILL!
<rick_h> I have a reputation for getting camp fires going without any problems :) off to on like a light switch!
<snap-l> God, what's that stuff that the conspiracy theorists say was laced inthe 9/11 towers...
<snap-l> Burns like a mother
<snap-l> I coould see rick_h using that for his grilling
<brousch> I DON'T HAVE A FURNACE IN MY HOUSE. I HAVE A MONKEY WITH A BLOWTORCH AND A FLATULENT ELEPHANT
<snap-l> "Once I start a fire, I want it to stay lit, dammit"
<Wolfger> Heh. My uncle used to light his cigarettes with an acetylene torch all the time..
<snap-l> "Never send a boy to do a man's work."
<jrwren> sphinx? fabric? wtf?
<jrwren> gasoline might make a great charcoal starter
<snap-l> Yeah, but your food will taste like a truck stop
<Wolfger> have you ever tried to light gasoline on fire? It's not easy to do.
<Wolfger> I don't know why people think of gasoline as being a good way to light things up.
<jrwren> yes, I have.
<jrwren> its pretty easy
<jrwren> poor gasoline onto grassy ground, in a path.
<jrwren> poor lots of it at the point on which you will be lighting it
<jrwren> drop match.
<jrwren> watch it burn and spread.
<jrwren> but yes, most people have no concept of just how stable gasoline is.
<jrwren> its why its our fuel of choice, because its NOT unstable.
<jrwren> its not explosive
<jrwren> it doesn't burn easy
<jrwren> common every day things like oxygen burn easier
<Wolfger> I tried to roast a mountain of ants one time when I was a kid
<Wolfger> poured gasoline over them, lit a match, dropped it in the puddle... the match went out
<jrwren> there was a puddle or was it gassy asnd?
<jrwren> sand?
<brousch> the ants all urinated to put out the flames quickly
<Wolfger> it was a hard-packed sand, so a lot soaked into the ground, but there was a bit pooled on the surface
<Wolfger> The circle of dirt where the above-ground pool used to be
<Wolfger> which found second-life as a makeshift basketball court
<Wolfger> and, of course, home to thousands and thousands of ants
<snap-l> The fumes of gasoline are explosive, but the liquid itself is not
<Wolfger> right
<Wolfger> so don't keep mostly-empty air-tight cans of gas lying down-range. :-)
<snap-l> Which is why I get nervous when folks say they're stockpiling gas in their shelters
<snap-l> first off: if it's truly the rapture / end times, what makes you think you're going to be one of the ones who will make it?
<snap-l> If it's truly the end-of-the-world, there's not going to be much left for you to be standing / sheltering in
<snap-l> ALways found that thinking to be a bit off.
<Wolfger> You're mixing and matching
<snap-l> enmlighten me
<Wolfger> rapture people plan on *not* being around after the world ends
<snap-l> No, but they're making plans for their pets
<snap-l> I just don't understand this concept
<Wolfger> stockpilers of guns and fuel are planning for the end of civilization, not the end of the world
<Wolfger> ...
<Wolfger> pets don't need gasoline
<snap-l> also, if any conversation gets us on the FBI watch-list, I'm pretty sure it's this one. :)
<snap-l> UBUNTU IS AN APOCALYPTIC CULT
<snap-l> SEND IN THE ATF
<snap-l> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY HIT RELEASE Z?
<Wolfger> the FBI doesn't have a watch list
<Wolfger> they have a don't-watch list. It's extremely short
<snap-l> Wolfger: Hah
<jcastro> rick_h: man I like this static S3 thing
<jcastro> it's going to end up so much cheaper than just getting a VPS for a blog
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've been doing a ton of s3 lately
<rick_h> I stick all my crap there these days: I've got a bunch of shortcuts for uploading to buckets there
<jrwren> i want to report a bug with pangolin's installer, anyone know the right lp project?
<jrwren> hi jcastro
<jcastro> ubiquity
<snap-l> jrwren: DId it crash?
<jcastro> ubuntu-bug ubiquity is what you want
<snap-l> If it crashes, it'll try it's best to point you in the right direction
<jcastro> rick_h: you just pushing up with s3 cmd?
<jcastro> what kind of stuff you keeping there?
<jrwren> snap-l: it did not crash. it doesn't work with kvm -usb -usbdevice tablet
<jrwren> which means testdrive is not functional right now :(
<snap-l> jrwren: Ugh
<jrwren> i could file it with testdrive, but then someone else has ot triage it to right place.
<snap-l> Something tells me it'll be ping-ponged if you file it with ubiquity.
<rick_h> jcastro: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/539/
<snap-l> But, if it's a problem with ubiquity, I'd file it there.
<rick_h> jcastro: I haven't gotten the s3cmd thing going
<jrwren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubiquity  :(
<rick_h> jcastro: I've been using that python script and a series of aliases for the common places I dump things
<jcastro> jrwren: "type this in a terminal"
<rick_h> jcastro: so I've got up_lp up_lococast up_mitechie etc
<jcastro> "ubuntu-bug ubiquity" and follow the instructions
<jrwren> jcastro: ty
<jcastro> rick_h: is the cost low? I'm assuming it will be trivial with like, a blog.
<jrwren> doesn't matter that its mismatched versions?
<jcastro> Not sure, if it is it will bail right away
<rick_h> jcastro: I dump postgres backups 2x a day for bookie http://bmark.us all the podcast files for lococast, personal backups, screenshots I use like pastebin stuff
<jrwren> bah, i dont have X.
<jrwren> need an Xless ubuntu-bug :)
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I htink s3 was some $7 last mont
<jcastro> it runs in the terminal I thought
<jcastro> rick_h: hah yeah, as I suspected, why have a vps
<snap-l> Y'know, that mismatched versions thing is nice, but man, it can be a bit of a PITA
<jrwren> yes, my bad, for some reson DISPLAY was set
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've moved form the colo to dual ec2 instances
<rick_h> jcastro: but starting to keep files on s3 for redundant/easy to share/etc
<rick_h> jcastro: I use that index.html I linked you G+ to browse them like an apache directory listing
<rick_h> jcastro: like http://uploads.mitechie.com/index.html
<rick_h> hmm, broken? well lococast one http://media.lococast.net/index.html
<jcastro> heh, awesome
<jcastro> I don't even have EC2 for the blog
<snap-l> rick_h: Worked for me
<jcastro> I just use amazon to serve the http
<jcastro> I am going to connect it to cloudfront tonight
<jrwren> ubuntu-bug gathers some B.S. report that is entirely wrong. so how to file it??? does ubuntu-bug work from installer?
<jcastro> you know, because I need a CDN for a blog.
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I was checking that out.
<jrwren> can I ctrl-alt-F1 from installer and run ubuntu-bug ?
<snap-l> jcastro: You might. :)
<jcastro> jrwren: hmm not sure with that one
<rick_h> jcastro: I need to create a new bucket for the bookie js docs and I can host it like that: http://files.bmark.us/jsdoc/index.html
<jcastro> give it a shot
<snap-l> 500 angry nerds have to let you know they're rather unhappy with Unity
<snap-l> and they're rage-quitting Ubuntu
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> more like the same 5 100 times
<jcastro> rick_h: hah I love how we're all excited about serving static content
<jcastro> I will not go into the brutal horror that it took for me to install and use ruby
<snap-l> jcastro: RVM, or something else?
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've been meaning to port my blog over to a git driven tool like that
<jcastro> I wasted like 2 hours on rvm
<jcastro> and then rbenv worked the first time
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, there's a python one cofee house wifi is broken as @#$#@$ so I can't find the link
<jcastro> I saw it
<jrwren> for what are you using ruby?
<rick_h> jcastro: http://www.blogofile.com/
<jcastro> they all aren't as nice as octopress
<snap-l> I got RVM working for Tracks
<jrwren> arent' you a huge puppet fan anyway? puppet is ruby, is it not?
<rick_h> that's the one I want to port to
<jcastro> jrwren: http://octopress.org/
<snap-l> jrwren: puppet hides ruby. :)
<jcastro> jrwren: I'm into service orchestration now, not config management.
<jrwren> a great tool hides its abstractions
<jcastro> I no longer care about each individual machine
<jrwren> jcastro: buzzword bingo? I don't even know what that means.
<rick_h> jcastro: but yea, s3 + the index.html JS for directory listing ftw as a grat "pastebin" for files
<snap-l> jcastro: You sound like a hipster when you say that. :)
<rick_h> jcastro: what's the state of same machine multiple charms? That's the killer I need
<jcastro> jrwren: puppet and chef are "I want a machine to look like this, give it to me."
<jcastro> juju is "I want wordpress, go get me what I need."
<jcastro> rick_h: it's close to landing. That's called subordinate charms btw if you ever need to ask.
<snap-l> qq: these static blogs don't serve comments, do they?
<rick_h> jcastro: awesome
<jcastro> they do
<jcastro> octopress has built in disqus support
<jrwren> yes!  ubuntu-bug does work from installer. YAY!
<rick_h> damn, I need to find a seat by power so I can get the mifi up...this is painful
<snap-l> What id you don't want disqus?
<jcastro> and twitter, g+, etc.
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, most of them hook up disqus
<snap-l> I can see that becoming a huge pain point
<jcastro> heh, all the benefits of the static speed from S3 and then you get crushed perf wise by adding disqus
<rick_h> jcastro: meh, at least you can make it async
<snap-l> partially that, and partially what happens when disqus decides to change their TOS.
<jcastro> wait, WHAT.
<rick_h> jcastro: and when was the last time comments were productive :P
<jcastro> oh I don't care much about their TOS.
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, lmorchard fought that
<rick_h> snap-l: they have an export method I believe
<jcastro> I'm a stackexchange addict now, comments are worthless.
<jcastro> I am trained to not care about comments
<rick_h> heh
<jcastro> this is quite cool though
<jcastro> All I need to do tonight is buy a domain and set up cloudfront
 * snap-l sees jcastro starting to  blog from jorge.stackexchange.com
<snap-l> and comments get voted up, or flagged by the community.
<jcastro> well, one of the reasons I liked octopress is now that I am into SE I am all about Markdown
<jcastro> and the octo posts are just plain text Markdown
<snap-l> Yeah, markdown is nice.
<jcastro> hell, I'm even writing emails in markdown now, I don't know what's wrong with me
<snap-l> also means when you make your blog memoir, it'll be easy to convert to PDF. ;)
<jcastro> I actually like tumblr (it has markdown support)
<jcastro> but I felt the need to dogfood the cloud more
<jcastro> and what better way to learn than by moving all my stuff
<snap-l> understandable
<jcastro> plus, there's like this weird vibe when you read a tumblr
<jcastro> sort of like finding a band on myspace, you're like "what?"
<jrwren> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug/e690dcca-53fa-11e1-a30c-002481e7f48a?  can anyone help me make this bug better?
<snap-l> "I just made a tasty sandwich". bob liked this, sarah liked this, alice liked this.
<krondor> I'm having way too much on octopress http://missionpenguin.com now that ruby is unscrewed on my box
<snap-l> jcastro: God, MySpace is hell for band pages
<krondor> disqus is heavy though
<Wolfger> snap-l: sudo make me a sandwich
<snap-l> "THANKS FOR THE ADD COME SEE MY NEW BAND KUMQUAT FUCKSANDWICH TONIGHT AT THE RUSTY NAIL"
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> ++ for "at the Rusty Nail"
<snap-l> Wolfger: You're welcome.
<snap-l> JoDee used to live by there. THat place is an institution of shitty bands everywhere.
<krondor> anyone used akamai before? or have any clue how much they charge for dns?  I'm thinking too much whatever it is.
<Wolfger> I used to drive past it all the time when I lived in Mount Clemens
<rick_h> krondor: route53?
<rick_h> krondor: I keep meaning to move my dns to that
<jcastro> rick_h: oh, octo has built in gist support too
<snap-l> OK, Google Reader has done something to make instapaper not work.
<snap-l> Getting really close to not using Google Reader anymore
<Wolfger> Oh dear lord... it's a little over 2 months until Penguicon, and their flier only list one guest of honor, and it's somebody who's there every year?
<snap-l> ESR?
<Wolfger> John Scalzi
<krondor> rick_h: I hadn't considered route53 for non aws.  Hmm...
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, there's actually a cool app I want to try out for that https://github.com/justinvh/gitpaste
<rick_h> jcastro: we run one of these internal and replace the pastebin with it :P except the gitness would freak peeps out
<jcastro> yeah but the current pastebin doesn't do any dvcs
<jcastro> man dude, can you charm that?
<jcastro> that'd be SLICK
<rick_h> jcastro: the current one has no way to reply or anything...drives me nuts
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, was thinking of trying to charm that as an open space at pycon
<jcastro> man that would be really great
<jcastro> you can just run it on canonistack, problem solved
<rick_h> jcastro: heh yea. and it shold be single server since it's dbless I think
<jcastro> I assume it just puts the paste in git repos right?
<rick_h> jcastro: just git and whoosh for fulltext index, but not tried it out yet, just following it
 * jcastro nods
<rick_h> jcastro: right, it uses GitPython to create it, indexes the contents for search into whoosh
<rick_h> uses django to web-ize the views
<jcastro> we have a mostly functioning django charm
<jcastro> it's about to get a whole lot better
<rick_h> nice
<brousch> ok, i know i should have read up on this stuff, but what does that mean?
<rick_h> ?
<rick_h> what does what mean?
<brousch> "a mostly functioning django charm"
<rick_h> you can do juju install django and get a server up and running with django ready to go. I'm assuming the charm would support extending it some how to get your app in there?
<jcastro> it only sort of works
<jcastro> yeah frameworks are tricky
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> should be more around the app if they can get it to be python packaged
<jcastro> yeah
<rick_h> but it's a tough nut, why I don't have a bookie charm atm
<jcastro> there's like 50 lower hanging fruit before I can get there
<rick_h> but why I like that gist app, should be easy there
<brousch> how does it know where to make the server? in a config file you feed juju?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> either local, openstack, or ec2
<jcastro> rick_h: man that would be an awesome charm
<rick_h> brousch: yea, you tell it
<jcastro> talk about juju at the next CHC
<jcastro> I am hurting on new charms, I need a win baby!
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, we've brought it up. I want to try to do a 'talk' on it at the long one at the end of hte month if I can get time
<jcastro> plus if you get a charm in the store you get a free ubuntu mug and tshirt!
<rick_h> but most things are db server, web server, etc and I don't want to fire up 3 ec2 instances for a blog
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> just test on canonistack
<rick_h> thus my severe interest in the sub charm stuff :)
<jcastro> or LXC
<rick_h> yea, I've not messed with either yet
<krondor> rick_h:  ++ I'd want to hear it.  I haven't played yet, but I'm very interested.
<brousch> so a charm is the packaging of what goes on the server, and juju is what creates the server and deploys the charm?
<jcastro> plus if you're working on a charm it's an easy expense
<jcastro> brousch: right
<jcastro> "apt get for the cloud"
<rick_h> krondor: yea, when canonical was shipping me to pycon I was pitching that stuff as how to justify my way. but now it's a bit lower priority to bookie itself
<jcastro> except instead of packages, you deploy services across multiple machines
<jcastro> rick_h: find me charmers, we already have like 40 something, I need 100!
<rick_h> brousch: yea, there's some talks on it
<jcastro> brousch: right so let me just show you in commands how you deploy wordpress
<rick_h> jcastro: I'll see if I can get time to put something together at pycon in open space format
<brousch> i know. i just haven't looked into it because it's bigger scale than i deal with right now
 * snap-l would be very interested in this
<jcastro> juju bootstrap; juju deploy wordpress; juju deploy mysql; juju add-relation wordpress mysql
<jcastro> juju expose wordpress
<jcastro> and then you just go to the URL.
<rick_h> yea, go read jcastro's blog posts. I particularly like the idea of "good practice" in charms
<jcastro> then you realize, crap, I can't scale.
<jcastro> juju deploy varnish
<jcastro> juju add-relation varnish wordpress
<jcastro> then point your DNS to the varnish IP instead, done.
<krondor> rick_h:  yeah, me too.  Only I think people argue so much over those settings.. It can defintely be better than stock though for sure.
<jcastro> or memcached, whatever floats your boat.
<snap-l> jcastro: juju add-relation phpbb wordpress. ;)
<brousch> all of the user passwords, mysql passwords are set in the charm?
<rick_h> krondor: yea, but everyone admits that the default pgsql settings are complete nonsense
<jcastro> yes, or you can set them
<rick_h> krondor: so just getting a better default pgsql would be a huge win
<jcastro> like juju set mysql password=blah (my syntax isn't right but that's the idea)
<brousch> rick_h++
<jcastro> I have a postgres hero looking at that charm right now
<jcastro> it's going to be /epic/
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, that'll be a good one
<krondor> true .. back in a few (evil meetings)
<rick_h> and that opens up a lot more LP folks since we're pgsql everywhere
<jcastro> if any of you ever need hadoop let me know
<jcastro> we can fire that up in ec2 in about 6 minutes
<snap-l> Wow
<jcastro> and as many slave nodes as you have dollars.
<brousch> and the purpose of this thing is that people who need to scale are already doing this, but there's no standardized methods for it, so juju and charms are trying to be that standard?
<jcastro> juju deploy hadoop-master; juju deploy hadoop-slave; juju add-relation hadoop-master hadoop-slave
<jcastro> brousch: exactly
<snap-l> I wouldn't say standard, but a way to lighten the load
<rick_h> brousch: a bit, but I think the "apt-get of infrastructute" makes a lot of sense when you htink about it
<snap-l> Seriously? Juju is trying to be a standard?
<rick_h> "apt-get install a memcache server" and one fires up on your account in edc2
<jcastro> ^^ then when you want 10 nodes: juju add-unit --n=10 hadoop-slave
<jcastro> blam, a 10 node cluster, ready to crunch
<brousch> rick_h: i'm sure it does, it's just that i have not personally encountered the need so my ignorance is holding back my comprehension
<jcastro> snap-l: right so why would I want to set up hadoop by hand when the "archive" has it.
<jcastro> and then we make the charms be smart out of the box, so you don't end up like this guy:
<rick_h> brousch: yea, it's a bit nice for that VM hit/run world for our use cases
<snap-l> Standard implies more than Ubuntu taking this up
<jcastro> http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/02/09/why-i-dont-host-my-own-blog-anymore/
<rick_h> brousch: so like when I run bookie tests against pgsql I have to have a pgsql server to test against
<rick_h> brousch: how could would it be if testing was "fire up pgsql server, conncet bookie, runtests, shut down them all"
<rick_h> brousch: and since bookie has to work against sqlite, mysql, pgsql that's a few servers
<rick_h> and next up is getting rabbitmq and such involved
<brousch> i am starting to see the appeal
<rick_h> brousch: that's my main reason, testing and such.
<snap-l> jcastro: heh
<snap-l> I just recently moved from Apache to Nginx for my blogs.
<rick_h> but since you can run it against your own ubuntu cloud setup, imagine you're getting slammed today and need to fire up more app servers
<rick_h> brousch: so a company can fire up some more instances of the app server for christmas for instance
<rick_h> and then they rnu out of space on their internal cloud, so they start firing up more instances of the app servers in ec2 land for the day
<brousch> right, my own ubuntu cloud setup, that old thing
<rick_h> since it's the same "charm" it's the same version of everything, just the machines are now on ec2
<brousch> nice
<rick_h> so I can see it some for larger places as well as my little testing needs
<jcastro> snap-l: right, so my argument is, if everyone says nginx is the way to do it, we should ship that ootb!
<jcastro> basically, make smart choices, but over entire deployments (which is why you can't just do this in packages)
<snap-l> jcastro: This desperately needs to replace CPanel.
<brousch> thanks for explaining it. i think i at least understand what it is now
<rick_h> brousch: yea, it's the kind of thing that starts to make more sense when you see it
<rick_h> snap-l: https://twitter.com/#!/voidspace/status/168012381979545600
<snap-l> rick_h: Oh, pretty
<snap-l> Wow, it requires Twisted to run? :)
<snap-l> Sheesh, that's not particularly light-weight. :)
<rick_h> well it's got to perform :)
<rick_h> oh come on, pip install :P
<snap-l> Definitely a different use-case than what I'm checking
<snap-l> But if I ever need to test an ISP, I'll know where to go. ;)
<rick_h> wahoo! mission accomplished: https://twitter.com/#!/garybernhardt/status/168021339653939200
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pitz0/homework_desperation/
<rick_h> snap-l: do you just have a google alert for things with 'homework' in the name?
<snap-l> No, I don't
<rick_h> oh heh...that looks familar
<snap-l> but apparently it's a similar student.
<snap-l> Yeah, it's the same guy
<snap-l> somehow I wouldn't think going to rediit for homework help would be productive.
<snap-l> rick_h: https://twitter.com/#!/garybernhardt/status/168021339653939200 <- That is so true
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/critics-slam-ssl-authority-for-minting-cert-used-to-impersonate-sites.ars <- can we please stop  with the trust authorities for SSL? It's clear it's broken beyond repair
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> So, there's a twitter spambot in our LoCo portal Microblog
<tjagoda> Either that, or somebody REALLY thinks #ubuntu-us-mi needs AppleTV
<tjagoda> And French watches
<brousch> you mean a spammer on identica?
<brousch> unpossible!
<tjagoda> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan
<snap-l> THat's actually twitter.
<greg-g> yeah, the spammers on twitter are harder to block since it is just a hashtag
<brousch> beautiful
<snap-l> Because someone figured out quickly that they can get some link juice via putting #ubuntu-
<greg-g> identi.ca it is a group that snap-l and I moderate
<snap-l> With an iron fist
<greg-g> http://identi.ca/group/ubuntumi
<snap-l> If anyone else wants admin, LMK. :)
<tjagoda> https://twitter.com/naijand
<tjagoda> Appears to be teh spamzor
<tjagoda> You should go to your twitters and spam report him/her/it
<snap-l> I did
<brousch> i like to think that if i ever meet a spammer in real life i will kick him in the testicles once for every spam i've received
<snap-l> I wonder if they could put in a rule that aonyone using more than one #ubuntu- tag doesn't get added to the microblogging role-call
<tjagoda> Quickly, to the blueprints!
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/+bug/930297
<tjagoda> I hopped on your Bug wagon, because I'm cool like that
<snap-l> danke
<tjagoda> I love when my users try to flush pandas down the IT toilet.
<tjagoda> Also, it is now snowing lightly in Port Huron.
<brousch> we have about 1/2" since noon
<jjesse> it was snowing at 8:30am on the way to work
<brousch> that was dandruff
<tjagoda> It makes me sad that I have a decent contingent of users who believe that the internet will only work if they have a desktop shortcut which leads directly to each web page they need.
<tjagoda> "Can you make a shortcut for xxx"
<snap-l> tjagoda: And get indignant when you tell them to use the address bar or bookmarks
<krondor> rick_h:  looks like I can't use route53, no DNSSEC support
<tjagoda> Yes, as if I am telling them that they must climb up a snow covered hill
<tjagoda> Chisel the address into a stone tablet
<greg-g> snap-l: we're talking about the global jam hashtag right now in -locoteams
<tjagoda> and then perform a complicated ritual involving sacrificial lambs and the gods of OpenDNS.
<krondor> which sucks because it sure is cheap
<rick_h> krondor: :(
<rick_h> oh well
<greg-g> snap-l: scroll back http://paste.mitechie.com/show/540/
<krondor> I'm expecting akamai to call me and ask for 1 million dollars lol.  Just means I continue down the self hosted route I was looking at.
<snap-l> greg-g: Oh for fucks sake
<snap-l> Also, I don't know why I report anything on launchpad
<greg-g> :)
<tjagoda> snap-l: Launchpad is SERIOUS BUSINESS
<snap-l> Seriously, I have nothing to contribute because it's all a dupe
<tjagoda> I am intimidated by the dudes who smite me for duplicates
<tjagoda> How many hours have you spent committing bugs to memory to tell me what I am a duplicate of?
<snap-l> Gah, and one of them is a dupe that I entered. :)
<snap-l> FML
<tjagoda> A bug so serious I feel compelled to report it 6 times
<tjagoda> snap-l is launchpad senile.
<tjagoda> He'd be an excellent user study
<snap-l> Of course it's marked as "in progress" since last year
<snap-l> I'm sure this is getting fixed REAL SOON NOW.
<tjagoda> Find code, prune, commit?
<snap-l> fuck it all, I'm going to start selling viagra
<brousch> snap-l: then you'd better gird your loins next time i see you
<snap-l> brousch: If I'm on viagra, you'll break your foot
<tjagoda> oh my
<tjagoda> I need to stop reading this channel at work, the random laughter is hard to conceal under pseudo coughs!
<tjagoda> Maybe that should be this weekends project
<brousch> snap-l: don't use your own product. isn't that one of the rules of thumb for drug dealers?
<tjagoda> branch the loco portal and punch the microblog in the face
<snap-l> Hmmm.... :)
<snap-l> I guess the mantra of "patches welcome" would apply here.
 * snap-l stops bitching
<Wolfger> OK, I just found out P-con has a second confirmed GoH: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gettys
<snap-l> Yeah, that's pretty cool
<tjagoda> I got that GoH confirmed in 2011.
<tjagoda> I may or may not have failed to issue any sort of press release on it however.
<tjagoda> <---- Penguicon PR not this guy's strong suit
<Wolfger> tjagoda: A flier was released earlier today (well, re-released... it was released a while back) and it only had "John Scalzi and more!" on it
<tjagoda> ffs
<Wolfger> Yeah
<Wolfger> "This one guy who shows up every year, and more!"
<tjagoda> "And more" was my idea. =(
<Wolfger> I was like, oh noes, tjagoda destroyed penguicon. :-D
<tjagoda> The current ConChair looks like he has a good grip on things
<tjagoda> Chuck is much better at stimulating a community than I am
<tjagoda> In no small part due to the fact that I try to avoid stimulating communities which are not entirely composed of tech people =P
<tjagoda> Wolfger: http://www.penguicon.org/CMS/?page_id=178
<tjagoda> ...where was the announcement?
<Wolfger> penguicon-general mailing list
<tjagoda> Ahhh
<tjagoda> I never read that
<Wolfger> So who all is going to the P-con bring-a-friend party?
<Wolfger> ...and bringing a friend?
<brousch> what is 12.04 code name? poopin penguin?
<Wolfger> brousch: Precise Pangolin
<Wolfger> I'm looking forward to Quiet Quaalude. Oh, wait, Quaalude isn't an animal... ;-)
<snap-l> Hasn't Q been announced yet?
<rick_h> not yet, at least I don't recall seeing it
<Wolfger> we'll know it within 76 days
<brousch> the global release party event is not in the loco pages yet
<snap-l> Ah, somehow I thought it had
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Future_releases
<rick_h> grrr, this stuff just pisses me off https://github.com/blog/1036-about-this-week-s-availability
<rick_h> froget about spending time making crap better, just waste time trying to fend off DDOS retards
<snap-l> Yeah, it sucks
<snap-l> ops is a thankless job
<snap-l> which is why it tickles me when I hear things like "Dev Ops taking over for sysops"
<rick_h> not so much that, but just wasting ops vs real advancement/work
<snap-l> WEll, and especially somewhere like github
<snap-l> why not put that energy to something useful
<greg-g> wait, you think DDOS care about usefullness/productivity/the betterment of society?
<greg-g> oh ye of too much faith in humanity
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm a hippie at heart.
<brousch> usually there's some kind of motivation
<rick_h> greg-g: no, I mean it prevents usefullness/productivity
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, it does, but the DDOSers don't care is my only point
<snap-l> rick_h: I think he was directing that towards me
<rick_h> I'm mean that the github folks, instead of doing useful crap, are spending time/$$ getting anti DDOS gear that serves no other useful purpose
<brousch> it's probably those sourceforge guys
<greg-g> brousch: lolz
<rick_h> ah, sorry, half reading
<greg-g> me too
<brousch> jjesse: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1535/detail/
<Wolfger> Launchpad DDOS'd GitHub?
<snap-l> brousch: Would you relate that to the global event?
<Wolfger> Or was it the Mercurial guys? ;-)
<rick_h> yea, I'm here to rant so it throws off the scent Wolfger :)
<brousch> i can't. it doesn't exist
<greg-g> "Github and its fancy social features must die!"
<snap-l> feh, there is no release party event.
<snap-l> n/m
<tjagoda> I just sent an email to penguicon-general clarifying who Jim Gettys is
<brousch> just have to remember to do it when it gets added
<tjagoda> I partly expect to be murdered by Matt Arnold in my sleep
<Wolfger> Heh
<tjagoda> His responses always read as very hostile to me
<tjagoda> That could just be perception, however
<Wolfger> Should I find the guy in charge of scheduling, and propose an outdoor "panel" named "Burning Trevor Jagoda in Effigy"?
<Wolfger> then at least you know who to watch out for.
<tjagoda> roast tjagoda
<tjagoda> It is a very bitter meat
<tjagoda> =P
 * Wolfger isn't going to touch tjagoda's bitter meat
 * tjagoda approves of this 
 * brousch washes his mind's eye with bleach 
<tjagoda> It occurs to me that I surfaced from the nether to post in a mailing list poop fight between Matt and Jer
<tjagoda> In what universe was that a wise course of action?
<snap-l> none
<tjagoda> Is there any traffic in ubuntu-us-mi?
<tjagoda> I never read that list anymore either
<brousch> usually just around bug jams/release parties
<tjagoda> I like to think that IRC is what I would experience if I were to climb inside the mailing list
<tjagoda> and read everyone's witty ass remarks that they backspace from their mailing list responses
<Wolfger> I'm supposed to backspace those?
<Wolfger> actually, I do that more and more lately... I must be getting old
<tjagoda> I think the socially acceptable term is "Wise"
<Wolfger> Wise Old Wolfger....
<Wolfger> s/Old/Ass?
<brousch> ok vimmers, having some trouble with y and p
<brousch> i say '21y' and i assume it going to copy 21 lines from my cursor down
<brousch> where is it really starting the copy?
<Blazeix> brousch: 21yy
<brousch> Blazeix: you win a cookie!
<Blazeix> http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/change.html#Y
<rick_h> brousch: I find it much easier to visually highlight what I want, then y
<snap-l> Anyone available for some CSS template work for a Joomla site?
<brousch> ok, opinions: http://office.vdiw.net:8000
<brousch> i gave up on mobile first, so it works pretty well for >700px wide
<snap-l> brousch: Seems to scale pretty well
<brousch> it technically works on mobile, but it is messy
<brousch> is it pleasing to the eye?
<snap-l> Yeah, it looks nice.
<brousch> About needs more content
<Blazeix> i really like it. adding something like `.menu-item:hover {background-color: #579;}` would make it seem more interactive
<brousch> good idea
<Blazeix> just imho, of course
<brousch> you're right. i usually do a hover on menu items
<brousch> the new site basically has all of the functional pieces of the old site, so now i feel like it can rip out the old
<brousch> then i can actually make improvements
<brousch> holy Zeus' poopstained undies, it looks the same in IE9
<snap-l> brousch: COngratulations. :)
<brousch> i didn't do anything
<brousch> not even sass
<brousch> ah, IE8 is a mess
<brousch> usable, but ugly
<brousch> hm, how many of my users will be using winxp?
 * brousch looks around the office
<brousch> damnit
<brousch> thanks guys. see ya later
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-11
<brousch> wow, nginx is hella fast http://clusterbleep.dyndns.org:8000
<rick_h> hehyea
<rick_h> why it's used a lot as a proxy
<brousch> hm, now static files are gone again
<brousch> sheesh, there, finally figured out nginx i think
<brousch> i thought i had to go to the static dir, but i really had to go 1 level above it
<rick_h> brousch: huh?
<tjagoda> Steam was compromised
<tjagoda> ffs
<tjagoda> Why is everybody failing at security these days?!
<Blazeix> tjagoda: a new hack?
<Blazeix> not just the one a few months ago?
<tjagoda> might be the same one, I just haven't noticed it in the news
<tjagoda> says they lost a bunch of encrypted CC information from 2004-2008
<snap-l> http://trenchescomic.com/comic/post/translation
<tjagoda> rofl
<snap-l> G'morning
<rick_h> party
<greg-g> hello hello
<snap-l> I want to make whomever makes a useful tax prep software for Linux to become extremely wealthy.
<brousch> hrblock.com
<brousch> been using it since 2005 on linux
<snap-l> I've been using TaxAct for the past few years, but now it's acting like shit because they use IE for their rendering engine
<snap-l> so now I'm running in a VM
<snap-l> I'm almost afraid to keep this thing running for any lenght of time before it suddenly gets infected by God knows what. :)
<Blazeix> you need to be careful with a windows machine, otherwise you might accidentally install silverlight
<snap-l> And that's bad why?
<Blazeix> i dislike silverlight, so i was implying it was malware
<jrwren> so flash is OK, but silverlight is bad? I hope you vomit from cognitive disonance :p
<Blazeix> hey, i'm not a fan of flash either, but i've only developed silverlight.
<Blazeix> a little bit of actionscript here and there, but not enough to really grok it
<rick_h> There's a special level of hell for idiots that ring the doorbell during nap time and wake the boy up...it not I'll invent it
<jrwren> rick_h: lol.
<_stink_> yeah, that's horrible.
<rick_h> _stink_: yea, 40min nap means fussy boy
<rick_h> _stink_: how's your weekend looking next week?
<rick_h> going to call the caribou about getting the room either 18th or 25th
<rick_h> bah, and of course they don't pick up the phone
<_stink_> hah
<_stink_> right, lemme check
<_stink_> rick_h: not sure it matters between the two of those dates
<_stink_> next weekend is slightly less busy so might be marginally better
<_stink_> but either one i think
<_stink_> when wife wakes up i'll double check with her
<_stink_> we have not had a doorbell ring, so i'm the only one awake here. :P
<snap-l> howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-02-12
<brousch> wow http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007960%20600000482&IsNodeId=1&name=128GB
<snap-l> brousch: Yep, now you to can launder 128GB of data in your pants pocket
<brousch> bastards http://blog.kdl.org/?p=10640
<jrwren> i call b.s. on the rw speed of those 128GB flash drives.
<jrwren> no way w
<jrwren> no way will you get 200MB/s
<jrwren> reviews are mixed
<brousch> even with usb3?
<jrwren> usually the flash memory is hte limiting factor
<snap-l> jcastro: What's your Scrabble account name?
<snap-l> or is that so last year? :)
<snap-l> Mine is snapl
<snap-l> apparently there's two account on there.
<snap-l> Found it
<snap-l> Though I have a feeling this app is a little buggy since I started a game with jcastro and it crashed. :)
<greg-g> what the fuck, firefox, why did you make the sidebar/pinned tabs so fucking huge?
<greg-g> that's what I get for restarting :/
<snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/winning-go-richard-bozulich/1100639275?ean=9781462900749&itm=23&usri=go+game#purchase=2981462900740
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Go-Successful-Opening-ebook/product-reviews/B005CVUZTS/ref=sr_1_18_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
<snap-l> Gee, the reviews look REALLY similar, don't they?
<rick_h> greg-g: pinned tab thing? I didn't remmeber firefox had added that
<rick_h> I've not 'gotten' that usage in chrome though so ugh
<brousch> yeah, annoying
<rick_h> I love it when the coffee shop/apple hippie stereo types hit the nail so
<brousch> you work in a coffee shop
<rick_h> basically
<rick_h> couple hours a day 5ish days a week
<rick_h> wife's been working so running away for a couple of hours to get some bookie hacking in
<rick_h> been off the computer a ton this weekend :(
<brousch> good boy
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo7MEJMXdsc
<snap-l> COol. WIll check it out.
<greg-g> rick_h: I like them, for gcal, greader, twitter, identi.ca
<greg-g> rick_h: they work great with tree style tabs
<greg-g> row of pinned tabs on top, then th elist of tabs below
<snap-l> I've never used the pinned tabs
<brousch> kind of sloppy, but a couple of good parts
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, the idea seems good but I never figured out how to get them on every load
<rick_h> and if I did, then I don't want them on every browser
<rick_h> so never really saw how'd they end up being nice in practice
<rick_h> I just end up with one browser instance on desktop #4 that's the stuff I'd "pin"
<greg-g> rick_h: fx saves tabs when you close it
<snap-l> Oh wow, I really like this
<snap-l> pinning tabs = a+
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I think I have a sneaking suspicion why pycurl isn't packaged
<snap-l> Jesus, but there's a lot of dependencies.
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> what do you mean, I see it in the repo?
<snap-l> I mean outside of the Ubuntu ecosystem
<greg-g> snap-l:  is it in debian?
<snap-l> I'm installing into a virtualenv
<snap-l> so I'm not using hte packagages
<snap-l> but since it's essentially a wrapper around a C library,there's a lot of dependencies like TLS, openssl, etc.
<snap-l> rtmp
<snap-l> And urlgrabber is a wrapper around pycurl
<snap-l> AWesome, urlgrabber doesn't appear to be working with pycurl
<snap-l> I'm starting to really hate pycurl
<snap-l> Gah, someone re-wrote urlgrabber to use pycurl, and of course it's not working.
<brousch> i think i'm going deploy that new grpug web site to heroku
<brousch> should fit in the free tier i think
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-04
<Caboose1911> ah.
<Caboose1911> fair enough, so, my buddy referred me to this user group, so uh, Hi.
<rick_h_> ah, good stuff
<rick_h_> there's a group meeting in an hour? or so
<Caboose1911> Where at?
<rick_h_> here, irc
<Caboose1911> ah ok, well that's good.
<Caboose1911> Guess I'll stick around then eh
<widox> rick_h_: ah, the node.js group has been pretty actively playing with those lately
<widox> http://www.meetup.com/DetNode/events/100383992/
<rick_h_> hah, cool
<rick_h_> whoa, ok those are $300 copters
<rick_h_> I was looking at little $40-60 toys
<widox> oh, hah
<widox> they actually had the manufacture out for one meeting
<rick_h_> very cool
 * rick_h_ thinks he does not need another hobby...does not need another hobby
<widox> :)
<rick_h_> but I've always wanted to get into RC and this is just cooler than RC ever was growing up
<rick_h_> well going to walk away from the computer while the ebay auction completes so I don't get suckered in things. I'll try to check back out at meeting time
<Caboose1911> so, teaching new people how to administer a linux server hurts my head.
<brousch1> GRMakers has had one out to the meetings. Pretty big
<Caboose1911> are we talking RC copters, or actual Drones?
<snap-l> RC copters
<snap-l> though technically they could be considered drones. ;)
<Caboose1911> True. ya, those things are really cool.
<jhansonxi_> I know someone who is making a hexcopter
<jhansonxi_> Not sure about the details though
<brousch1> Oh great, the propellor wars have begun
<jhansonxi_> More props doesn't matter.  It's power to weight ratio that counts.
<brousch1> Soon it'll be an octocopter, then a decacopter. It'll only end when a megacopter chops up and entire gym full of elementary students
<jhansonxi_> There are easier ways to deal with a gym full of students then just direct blade impacts.
<jhansonxi_> Like a wireless camera and a paintball gun.
<jhansonxi_> They'll trample each other in the mass panic.
<rick_h_> I just need enuogh to power up and carry around my throne
<rick_h_> and crap on ebay losing. oh well
<Caboose1911> aw.
<rick_h_> QOTD: ...with the "little problem" that you don't know if the write succeded or not.
<Caboose1911> So, random Linux question, why do I get called a "noob" for using Ubuntu? I thought Ubuntu was pretty good.
<jhansonxi_> Caboose1911: Real pros use Linux from Scratch.  I'm a pro but I use Ubuntu because I have better things to do then watch gcc output for days on end.
<Caboose1911> ya, I've always said that, I mean I grew up using Arch linux, then starting college, I found, not enough free time to compile everything from scratch, and troubleshoot for hours on end
<rick_h_> I'd disagree with LFS, I find more hobbiest using that than pros
<jhansonxi_> Define "hobbyists".  If you mean people who don't have jobs and live in their parent's basement where they have plenty of free time to compile then I agree with you.
<Caboose1911> dang, you just summed me up, I love being a poor college student lol :)
<Caboose1911> er, hate, sorry.
<brousch1> Real Linux men use Gentoo
<jhansonxi_> Gentoo is for posers who like having their make files spoon-fed to them
<Caboose1911> also hm, this is getting on my nerves, my friends are starting to use backtrack 5, and want "easy mode"
<rick_h_> I define hobbyist as not entrusted to keep the company alive/kicking
<rick_h_> yes, I know of individuals that have tinkered with LFS at a time. I know none that have run it full time over years, and none that run a company no it
<rick_h_> /no/on
<jhansonxi_> That definition also includes most management
<rick_h_> most management?
<rick_h_> Caboose1911: people say that because Ubuntu's original goal was making the Linux desktop easier and more polished for normal users
<rick_h_> Caboose1911: ignore them :P
<jhansonxi_> Incompetence seems to increase the farther up the corporate ladder you go.
<rick_h_> ok, but I'm failing to match Incompetence"
<rick_h_> with the defiintion of hobbyist linux user?
<jhansonxi_> You stated "entrusted to keep the company alive/kicking"
<rick_h_> heh, ok. So that's quite a leap from the version of linux a company uses to operate to the people running it
<jhansonxi_> Most companies use M$ as dictated by upper management.  Need further proof?
<rick_h_> so we should just say that linux all together is hobbyist regardless of the use? :P
<jhansonxi_> It's all relative.  M$ is for hobbyists when it comes to mobile phones.
<jhansonxi_> I'm a former Windows sysadmin so I have a bad attitude when it comes to corporate IT.
<jhansonxi_> Life would have been much easier if I could have deployed Linux back then but I was a Linux n00b.
<snap-l> 5 minutes to meeting
<Caboose1911> I feel like a noob in here :( I've only been using linux for a year. mainly backtrack and xbuntu.
<Caboose1911> oh, and backbox
<snap-l> Time to get those drinks, check the score (I believe the 49res are losing, according to the posts I keep muting on Google Plus)
<Blazeix> the 49ers a being crushed
<jhansonxi_> They had a power outage at the stadium.
<snap-l> and Sybil died in Downton Abbey, so I'm sure they'll be doing the rich weepy thing
<Blazeix> it's been 'coming back in 15 minutes' for the past 25 minutes
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: Probably all of the people charging their tablets mid-game.
<Ahuka> I'm watching This Old House on my TiVo.
<snap-l> Probably blew a fuse with all of that Apple hardware in one space
<snap-l> .
<jhansonxi_> They should just have everyone light up their phones and tablets and point them at the field
<snap-l> Can just imagine one plug with about 400m of extension cords hanging off of it, and some sheepish faces.
<jsjgruber-x-p> Due to the Superbowl I don't have to make the effort to ignore Downton Abbey. Due to the power outage at the stadium I don't have to make the effort to ignore the Superbowl. Alright.
<snap-l> Anywho...
<snap-l> I really wish I could take credit for causing the interruption in the Superbowl. ;)
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/512/detail/
<snap-l> That's the agenda, ladies and gentlemen
<snap-l> as you can see, there's not a whole lot on there. ;)
<snap-l> Item 1: Ubuntu Global Jam
<snap-l> unfortunately there isn't currently an announced time to hold a UGJ, so we're ini limbo for now
<snap-l> But what I'd like for fokls to start thinking about is what they'd like to do during the UBuntu Global Jam
<snap-l> In previos jams we've done bug triage, installs, etc.
<snap-l> I spent the last one looking at Ask Ubuntu questions and seeing which ones I could answer.
<snap-l> So, if anyone has some thoughts on what they'd like to work on for the Ubuntu Global Jam, please feel free to post them to the list.
<snap-l> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
<snap-l> (If you're not on the mailing list already, now's a great time to sign up. :) )
<snap-l> Any questions or concerns?
<jhansonxi_> Unfortunately I don't have time.  I'm busy writing a kickstart script for automated on-line deployments but have been sidetracked by contract drafting work for several months.
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: That's quite alright
<jhansonxi_> In related news, getdeb.net is back online
<snap-l> If you have some free time during the UGJ, feel free to pop in to the IIRC channel
<snap-l> irc, even . :)
<waldo323> :)
<snap-l> Damn keyboard apparently has some repeat issues. ;)
<jhansonxi_> I occasionally allow myself to get sucked into tech support on #ubuntu but it's tedious.
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: Whatever you feel comfortable doing is OK.
<snap-l> I think we'd all rather be doing something that didn't feel like work. :)
<waldo323> having lunch with a beer?
<snap-l> Far be it from me to make you do anything you'd rather not do.
<snap-l> waldo323: You'll have to earn that beer.
<jsjgruber-x-p> Pick some AskUbuntu questions and see if we can work on some answers as a team? That might be more social than testing.
<jsjgruber-x-p> For global jam.
<jhansonxi_> If I had a regular job then I would help more since it would be a way to escape work.  Since I'm self-employed that just doesn't have the same level of thrill.
<snap-l> jsjgruber-x-p: Yeah, I think that would definitely work out.
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: Understood
<snap-l> But yeah, keep this percolating in the back of your minds. We should have some time to think about it before we can even commit to anything
<snap-l> Also:
<snap-l> If you have any ideas on where we could meet in person that's free (as in cost) and has wifi, please post that to the list.
<jhansonxi_> Biggest complaints I'm seeing are related to video drivers and Steam.
<snap-l> Usually UGJ gets anywhere from 2 people up to around 10 people
<Caboose1911> uh, I'm not sure where everyone is located, but I think Macomb Community college offers meeting rooms for free?
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Is that for students only?
<snap-l> Also, Macomb can be a bit of a trek for people on the west side.
<Caboose1911> True.
<Caboose1911> and I'm almost positive it's free, even for non students.
<jhansonxi_> I'm near Alpena.  Everything is a bit of a trek for me.
<snap-l> When I lived in Macomb Township, we'd have UGJs at the Clinton Macomb Library.
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Would you check into that for us?
<Caboose1911> Sure, I have a class on Tuesday, so I shall check then.
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Awesome. Thank you!
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Which campus? Center or South?
<waldo323> as another option, depending on when it is, we could meet where chc meets
<Caboose1911> chc?
<snap-l> waldo323: That's an excellent idea. :)
<snap-l> Coffee House Coders Royal Oak
<Caboose1911> uh, I live near Center Campus,but have classes at South, I can check out both no problem.
<jhansonxi_> Maybe Washtenaw CC where WLUG meets
<snap-l> http://royaloak.coffeehousecoders.com/
<waldo323> thats also a good idea
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: If someone is there that can check
<Ahuka> You have to hav e a connection to the College.
<jhansonxi_> Just contact someone on the mailing list: http://www.lugwash.org
<Ahuka> Jeff, that would be me.<g>
<snap-l> Regardless, we don't know when the global event will be yet.
<Ahuka> And I would need to know that to look into it.
<snap-l> but having these options is awesome.
<jsjgruber-x-p> Last year it was during the first few days of March.
<Ahuka> We are talking ab out a Sunday afternoon?
<snap-l> jsjgruber-x-p: Right, but it hasn't been announced yet. The Beta-1 release is slowing things down, afaict.
<snap-l> Ahuka: Usually the global event runs from Friday to Sunday
<snap-l> so any time during that weekend would be OK
<Ahuka> Oh, for a moment I thought you wanted a 3-day event.<g>
<waldo323> 24/3
<snap-l> Also: Just so folks don't feel like they have to make it to a location that's hours away: Please feel free to schedule something local should you wish.
<Ahuka> Well, let me know when a date is chosen and I will check with the college.
<snap-l> I think we have that tendency to think we only can have one central event for these things, and while that's been true in the past, we don't need to continue it.
<Ahuka> Just a wild and crazy idea, but what about a virtual meeting?
<snap-l> I'd be happier if we had 4 events with modest turn out than one event with spartan turnout
<Ahuka> That would make it easier on Jeff, for instance.
<snap-l> Ahuka: We've kicked that around, but the problems are usually bandwidth-related.
<jhansonxi_> I'm on satellite so my problems are lag-related
<snap-l> keeping a video link in places like libraries and colleges is usually more difficult
<Ahuka> Video link?
<snap-l> Ahuka: But that's something to consider. I know there's sites like big blue button that may help out, but I've found them terribly unreliable.
<snap-l> Ahuka: Thought that's what you were referring
<jhansonxi_> I think MDLUG has their own BBB server but bandwidth is still a problem.
<snap-l> IRC is definitely an option as well.
<Ahuka> That is what I had in mind.
 * waldo323 nods
<snap-l> Yeah, BBB is something I wish worked better.
<snap-l> IRC is definitely an option
<Ahuka> We could anser questions on Ask Ubuntu and cordinate via IRC
<snap-l> In fact, I'd encourage more IRC use during these events
<Ahuka> No one needs to drive.
<Caboose1911> hm, well, knowing me, I'd probably be on IRC here a lot, considering I don't own a car :/
<snap-l> If folks would rather do this remotely, I'm for it as well.
<jhansonxi_> Don't worry about my needs.  Due to my work load I can only drop in randomly.  Linux users are rather sparse in this area.
<Ahuka> And we don't need to worry about east side vs. west side.
<jhansonxi_> I suspect that Linux is even less common among Yoopers.
<snap-l> Anywho, let's table this for now, but please hop onto the mailing list to keep abreast of updates and such
<Ahuka> OK
<snap-l> I'd like to move on to the release party
<jhansonxi_> Google Hangout may be worth trying
<Ahuka> I like Google Hangout.
<snap-l> Which for the Detroit area folks will be held at the beautiful Marriot during the festival known as Penguicon
<Ahuka> I will be there.
<snap-l> I've talked with the hotel liaison, and we should be OK with using the bar area. It has more space than the previous hotel had in the bar area.
<jhansonxi_> I'm thinking of going to a Linux conference instead.
<snap-l> so that's a plus.
<Caboose1911> I might try to attend Penguicon, I also was going to attend GRRcon
<snap-l> It'll be held on Friday night from 7-8pm
<jsjgruber-x-p> How much does it cost to attend our meeting when it's at Penguicon?
<snap-l> It costs admission to Penguicon
<snap-l> You can likely get a one-day pass if you so choose.
<snap-l> http://2013.penguicon.org/
<snap-l> A one-day pass is $30
<snap-l> Again, if somoeone wants to organize something outside of Penguicon, please feel free.
<snap-l> It just happens a number of folks happen to be at Penguicon during that time
<jhansonxi_> Will Penguicon have Linux content this year?  I see the schedule still isn't up.
<snap-l> jhansonxi_: TBD
<Ahuka> I expect they will. The con chair came to OLF last September.
<brousch1> Sorry. Meeting started near son's bedtime
<snap-l> Unfortunately there have been some major hiccups this year, so expect everything to fly in at the last minute
<waldo323> they are open for those who would like to give talks
<snap-l> Such is the Penguicon way.
<waldo323> if you have specific topics, would like to talk yourself or want to suggest someone give a particular talk we/they are open to suggestions
<Ahuka> Is Krunal handling the tehc track again?
<jrwren> bah, missing meeting. is it over?
<jhansonxi_> Last year consisted of a bunch of BoFs that someone just threw into the schedule along with a couple of M$ presentations.
<waldo323> yes,  I am helping as well as are a few others
<Ahuka> Ah, does that mean waldo323 = Krunal?
<snap-l> waldo323 == James
<waldo323> arg,  should have said yes he is and so am i and a few others
<snap-l> aka Hicemeister J
<Ahuka> Well, my next question would have been "where is James", so that helps.<g>
<Ahuka> waldo323, is the Call for Talks open, or hsould I just send an e-mail, or what?
<snap-l> OK, before we head too far down the rabbit hole... Any questions about the release party at Penguicon
<snap-l> ?
<Ahuka> Not really. If it is Friday evening I will be there.
<Ahuka> If it is Saturday evening, I won't.
<jhansonxi_> What's the purpose of a "release party"?  Complain about bugs not fixed?  Installfest?
<brousch1> jhansonxi_: Canonical employees can get smashed after working their asses off on the release
<brousch1> We can help them
<jhansonxi_> I can bring a bug list and a baseball bat to help with the smashing
<snap-l> Well, it's also a time for folks to get together to celebrate the release of a new OS
<brousch1> Also a celebration of all the new awesome in the new release, but Unity killed that off for me
<jhansonxi_> Is it Ubuntu-specific or can *buntu and Linux Mint people join?
<waldo323> it is not ubuntu specific
<Ahuka> I'm Kubuntu, myself, and no one threw me out.<g>
<waldo323> everyone is welcome to join
<snap-l> Second call for questions
<Caboose1911> uh, really dumb question.
<jsjgruber-x-p> No more questions from me
<snap-l> Caboose1911: What's the question?
<Caboose1911> Is there a fee for joining this Linux User Group?
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Absolutely not
<jsjgruber-x-p> And welcome, Caboose1911.
<brousch1> What kind of sick, twisted Linux user group would charge a fee to join?
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Just add yourself to the Launchpad team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-michigan
<jhansonxi_> They don't charge a membership fee but there is a $300 termination fee. :D
<Caboose1911> lol
<snap-l> OK, thank you everyone for coming out to the meeting. Hope to see you online and on the mailing list~!
<snap-l> And at the events too, but you already knew that. ;)
<Caboose1911> Oh, I subscribed to that launchpad link snap-1 (under Andrew Aurand)
<snap-l> Caboose1911: Approved.
<waldo323> call for talks is open, there are a couple ways to become a speaker at penguicon, email: you can email me at jameshice@gmail.com , or krunal at tech@penguicon.org or programming head directly at programming@penguicon.org also there is a web form at http://2013.penguicon.org/contributing/presenting/
<brousch1> waldo323: Is there an email with info appropriate for forwarding?
<waldo323> I don't have one right now but can get one this week
<Ahuka> Cath ya later, I gotta go now.
<Caboose1911> I have returned!
<Caboose1911> aww, no one is here.
<Blazeix> rick_h_: have you seen this, with your new-found love of meetup? http://www.meetup.com/API-Craft-Detroit/events/101269702/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: no, didn't see that one
<widox> Blazeix: rick_h_ I've been to one of those meetups
<rick_h_> widox: learn you some good apis?
<widox> pretty good bunch, two of the guys work at http://apigee.com/
<widox> yeah, seemed pretty good. one I  went to dealt with using JS to provide an API
<widox> via node.js
<rick_h_> gah my head can't take this today
<rick_h_> so anyone ever deployed client->apache->squid->gunicorn app ?
<brousch> I thought squid went in front of apache
<rick_h_> heh
<brousch> client -> squid -> apache -> gunicorn
<rick_h_> yea, welcome to my brain fuddling
<jcastro> man the snow is really coming down
<rick_h_> yea, rss feed said a nice increase until 1pm ish
 * greg-g pouts
<rick_h_> heh, I don't want to hear it
<greg-g> and I can't find a decent place in Tahoe next weekend yet
<rick_h_> I'm trying to heat my poor workshop this weekend but when it's 12F outside only so much I can do
 * greg-g adds tire chains to list of things to get this week
<greg-g> hah, insulation much?
<rick_h_> yea, but still. Trying to keep a 40-55 degree differential is hard with space heaters
<greg-g> yeah, true
<rick_h_> and expensive, poor electric bill was as much a hottest part of summer :(
<greg-g> yeah, def
<greg-g> wood burning stove
<rick_h_> at least if we can get 30s the difference to keep it up to 50 is less
<rick_h_> yea, thought about it
<greg-g> you are in a *wood shop* after all ;)
<rick_h_> I've got a propane thing but hate using it
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> What's wrong with the propane?
 * rick_h_ dreams of nice shop in portland with an open garage door letting a breeze in :P
<rick_h_> so after a bit it gets funky and can get you light headed
<rick_h_> and it's a giant open flame in the shop which has things like fumes and saw dust in it (though not much by way of fumes currently, too cold to glue or finish anything)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Just think of it as a portland substitute when your neighbors start lighting up every little herb in their garden.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> greg-g: lake tahoe?
<greg-g> yeah
 * rick_h_ isn't all that familiar with the area/etc
<greg-g> beautiful area
<rick_h_> lol 6hr snowfall graph
<rick_h_> snow much?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I'm starting to reconsider getting some freon cans and just opening them up
<snap-l> Get some heat in this atmosphere.
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool, didn't realize it was in CA
<rick_h_> for some reason thought it was a CO or NV thing
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I'm getting cranky that the sumers are too hot and after the light winter last year this one is an ice box
<rick_h_> did the avg temp calender on wunderground the other day (or maybe weather.com) and all these lovesly 30s but we're with 10 or 60 it seems
<snap-l> Yeah, we don't have winter, we have mood swings.
<rick_h_> looks like warmer later in the week though
<snap-l> http://danielsolisblog.blogspot.com/2013/02/creative-commons-and-thousand-year-game.html
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<snap-l> Seeing more things released under a CC license in the gaming world.
<greg-g> coolio
<snap-l> greg-g: You do realize I'll still bombard you with CC-related stuff long after you've left. ;)
<greg-g> snap-l: indeed, and I'll appreciate it ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: OK, as long as we're clear. ;)
<snap-l> Are you fucking kidding me: http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/01/verizon-htc-thunderbolt-ice-cream-sandwich-update/
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> dude, people are still on ICS?
<snap-l> Way to drag those heels.
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm on ICS
<snap-l> Samsung Galaxy II Epic 4G Touch Chapionship Edition
<snap-l> Mk 2
<snap-l> I swear, they must've gotten Capcomp to name this phone
<brousch> jcastro: Shut it. My phone is still 2.3.7
<dzho> brousch: he's just trying to highlight Android fragmentation
<dzho> you know, make the case for that mobile Ubuntu thing, right? ;-)
<jcastro> nod
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I just don't get why people buy non nexus androids
<jcastro> but whatever, I don't try to judge
 * jcastro judges anyway
<rick_h_> yea, unfortunately software isn't the one true reason to buy a phone
<snap-l> jcastro: SOmetimes they don't have a choice
<rick_h_> just like everyone doesn't get thinkpads which I don't get
<snap-l> I'm glad I got JoDee the Nexus, and would have picked it up were it available
<jcastro> I dunno man, craig opened my eyes to MVNOs, you can go cheap without contracts and buy what you want
<snap-l> I wish I could just get rid of the Sprint shit on my phone
<snap-l> (yes, I know I can root my phone)
<jcastro> I don't believe in having to hack your phone to get it to work
<snap-l> jcastro: Precisely
<jcastro> that's for iphone people. :p
<snap-l> WEll, the one thing that drives me batshit insane is this stupid Sprint ID thing
<snap-l> which is part of the OS
<snap-l> UNfortunately a) it doesn't work, and b) it crashes whenever I reboot the phone
<snap-l> Now that sportbowl is over, I can turn up the volume on some of my circles in G+
<snap-l> Seriously, I don't care about the commercials, I don't give a fuck if GoDaddy used porn for their commercials, and I certainly don't care who won.
<brousch> The Red Wings won
<snap-l> Abot the only thing that could be more exciting is hearing someone's breathless recounting of their game of Risk.
<brousch> snap-l: Who peed in your coffee today?
<snap-l> brousch: Nobody, it was pent up from yesterday.
<shakes808> Good afternoon fellas
<waldo323_> does anyone have a contact at open.michigan?
<greg-g> waldo323_: a few, what's up?
 * greg-g used to work there
<waldo323_> :) nice,   it would be nice to have a talk about it at mug    and/or penguicon
<greg-g> ah, well, go ahead and fly me back and I'll do it ;)
<greg-g> but, seriously, their contact email address (not sure, probably on open.umich.edu) is good. It is a small team and they are responsive
<greg-g> feel free to name drop me ;)
<greg-g> (I think it is still a positive reaction, not yet negative)
<waldo323_> ok thanks :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-05
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> THat good, eh?
<rick_h_> yea, headache all day
<snap-l> Ugh
<snap-l> that's no fun
<jrwren> more coffee
<rick_h_> heh, love the xkcd what if today
<snap-l> GOod morning
<rick_h_> party
<derekv> so
<derekv> I did a pyramid setup tutorial
<derekv> alchemy scaffold
<derekv> "Pyramid is having a problem using your SQL database"
<derekv> Is what I get
<derekv> this is with unmodified code as pcreate command created it
<derekv> so i found the initialize_foo_db script
<derekv> but it doesn't help
<derekv> I was hoping to see the screen as shown in the tutorial before I started looking at the code etc
<derekv> nvm reposting to #pyramid
<rick_h_> derekv: what's the SA url in the ini?
<rick_h_> not sure, not done the tutorial in a while
<derekv> sqlalchemy.url = sqlite:///%(here)s/project.sqlite
<derekv> so that tutorial I found by navigating
<derekv> but you you search google, there are mutiple tutorials that vary slightly
<derekv> some i guees for different versions
<rick_h_> yea, so not sure where you get this error at?
<rick_h_> that's all you get? "Pyramid is having a problem using your SQL database"
<rick_h_> when you do a pserve development.ini?
<derekv> i wonder if that s is supposed to be there after the %(here)
<derekv> rick_h_: yea
<derekv> well the server runs
<derekv> that is what I see on the localhost page
<rick_h_> yes, $(here)s is a str replacement
<derekv> ok
<rick_h_> derekv: and no error output/traceback at the cli where you ran the server?
<derekv> rick_h_: just some INFO statements about what select its running, no error
<rick_h_> derekv: push the source up somewhere and I can look. Not sure what the scafoold does these days and hard to see what's up
<derekv> ok
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/pyramid-tutorial
<rick_h_> derekv: k, sec
<snap-l> Change %(here) to an actual path
<snap-l> sqlite:///tmp/foo.db
<derekv> ok
<rick_h_> car done, have to run, will check back in a bit
<derekv> ok thanks I'll play with it
<rick_h_> derekv: sorry, that initializesql script is broken as fu
<rick_h_> fixing, will have a diff shortly
<rick_h_> derekv: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/879/
<rick_h_> make sure to run bin/python project/scripts/initializedb.py development.ini
<rick_h_> from within your virtualenv or whatever
<derekv> ok
<derekv> rick_h_: that works!
<derekv> rick_h_: do I just rerun that script if I update my models?
<rick_h_> derekv: no, it's not a migrations solution
<rick_h_> it's just meant to init a new install
<rick_h_> derekv: you can rm your db and rerun it if you want
<rick_h_> and get back an empty db with the table structure
<rick_h_> derekv: alembic is a tool for true migrations
<widox> speaking of python...
<widox> what's that tool to create a standard project with rick_h_?
<rick_h_> modern package template
<widox> like, it setups standard project layout and such
<widox> cool, thanks
<derekv> rick_h_: clean database is ok for now
<derekv> no data of importance =p
<rick_h_> derekv: yea, then just rm db && bin/python scripts/...
<derekv> type token occurance
<rick_h_> huh?
<derekv> so apprearently a "type" is the concept of a thing, and a "token" is an instance of it
<derekv> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/types-tokens/#WhaDis
<derekv> Just trying to come up with table names
<derekv> for my model
<rick_h_> yea, I'd say type/instance
<rick_h_> table names generally work best as plurals of the model name normalized a bit
<rick_h_> ime
<derekv> type and instance both have too much overlap with programming
<derekv> type/token would be the correct words according to this article
<derekv> basically I am going to have a little app where you can create some thing, then click ( or poke api ) to "count" occurances of it
<derekv> then see by time or total count or graph or whatever
<derekv> silly concept but wanting some simple project
<derekv> to build a web app around
<derekv> eventtypes and occurances is probably the most readable
<derekv> users eventtypes occurances tables , thats about as simple of a model as you can get =]
<greg-g> rick_h_: I was so tired last night that I didn't even open the box with the spoon knives in it. No pictures yet, but I have them ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome!
<rick_h_> I need a deep ladle when you get time :P
<greg-g> :) me too, Rowan is breaking/chipping all of our wooden utensils
<brousch> greg-g: Is everything a drum?
<greg-g> more that he REALLY, I mean ***REALLY*** wants to help stir anything that is on the stove
<greg-g> and by "stir" I mean "fling around a large utensil in the general direction of the skillet, thus getting food everywhere"
<greg-g> seriously, actually, he does pretty well now, just pushes stuff around, can still get messy though
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol, when I cook I give the boy a pan, a spoon, and some uncooked noodles or such
<rick_h_> uncooked noodles, beans, and cereal works best (kix and the like)
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> we try the pot with water on the floor trick, he loves that, but he *really* wants to see what we're doing "up there"
<rick_h_> yea, I don't do water
<rick_h_> I have enough to clean up
<brousch> I don't let mine help. He can get on a chair and watch
<greg-g> we got him a Learning Tower that helps a bunch, he does stuff on the counter next to where we are doing food prep
<rick_h_> I let him pull a kitchen chair up on the other side of the counter
<rick_h_> so he stands on the chair and goes crazy on the counter with his cooking
<rick_h_> wanting one of whatever dad has "I need some tongs, oven mitts, ..."
<greg-g> yeah, like the learning tower, just the learning tower is fenced off, basically
<greg-g> yep
 * rick_h_ looks up learning tower
<rick_h_> ah, that's pretty cool
<rick_h_> I was going to look at making the boy a step stool, but maybe something a bit larger would be in order
<rick_h_> ouch 35#
<greg-g> yeah, heavy/sturdy, and not cheap, we got ours used
<rick_h_> cool
<derekv> what should I use for time? TIMESTAMP?
<rick_h_> http://taaviburns.ca/presentations/what_you_need_to_know_about_datetimes/
<derekv> *brain splodes
<rick_h_> you asked
<brousch> No. He asked what type to use, not everything
<rick_h_> "what should I use for time" ... says nothing about type :P
<derekv> lol
<derekv> so
<derekv> I want to store when the occurance happened.  eg, same more or less as when the row is created
<rick_h_> created_date = Column(DateTime, default=datetime.datetime.utcnow)
<derekv> cool... hopefully that will work more or less transparently on postgres and sqlite?
<rick_h_> rgr, just be ware that sqlite doesn't support a real datetime so it's actually a string
<rick_h_> but SA will hide that fact from your as long as you use SA
<derekv> rick_h_: I plan to only use SA
<derekv> I saw that, is why I asked
<rick_h_> you'll just get a datetime back then and it'll auto insert on Session.add()/commit
<rick_h_> or .flush
<derekv> cool
 * derekv deletes some semicolons
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/pyramid-tutorial/blob/master/project/models.py , on the right track ? =]
<derekv> oops bad link
<derekv> https://github.com/DerekV/pyramid-tutorial/blob/model-spike/project/models.py
<rick_h_> think name being unique is a bit unreasonable?
<rick_h_> and occurance/eventtype seem mixed up
<rick_h_> what's an event type supposed to be? Seems like something that has a limited set of known events?
<rick_h_> but it's tied to a creator?
<rick_h_> should that be on the occurance, who was involved in it?
<derekv> rick_h_: both good thoughts
<derekv> re name being unique, i'm going to use the name as part of the rest path ... thought about doing a hash as the path for that reason and for basic privacy but decided to keep it simple
<rick_h_> rest path on mutable data?
<rick_h_> not to mention no true limit on the type of data in there.
<rick_h_> I'd use username and validate it to not be allowed to be url escaped characters and the like perhaps?
<derekv> right has to be validated anyays
<rick_h_> but I guess that's mutable as well
<derekv> the name wont' be mutable
<derekv> future enhancement
<derekv> I'm not even worried about api compatability or anything
<derekv> Before long I'll have to think through all that I'm sure
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/u/bd80c81fa7fa80 cool, was looking at that for bookie as well
<derekv> basically I could just use the id of the eventtype but I dislike using database id's outside of database access code
<rick_h_> yea, but username seems more stable than name
<rick_h_> but just my experience
<derekv> right
<derekv> what will get me to demo quickest?
<derekv> probably just using the database id
<derekv> and hold my nose
<derekv> and name should be descriptions
<derekv> -s
<derekv> event type doesn't even need a creator atm
<snap-l> Man, factory resets on your phone are no fun
<derekv> so for occurances... eventually you'd either decide that only the creator can post occurances or you'd need some sort of "observed by"
<derekv> i guess i'll put in 'observed by'
<derekv> makes sense
<derekv> any my init on Occurance is jacked
<rick_h_> sec, will have a MP coming your way in a second
<derekv> for the init, you you want pass the _id's or the relationship?
<derekv> Military Police?
<derekv> acronym fail
<rick_h_> merge prop
<rick_h_> pull req
<brousch> MP? really? Is that some launchpad lingo?
<rick_h_> yea, MP is merge proposal
<rick_h_> derekv: so there's amy first pass at what I would do :)
<derekv> rick_h_: cool
 * brousch beats rick_h_ about the head and neck. IT'S A PULL REQUEST AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT AGAIN
<rick_h_> https://github.com/DerekV/pyramid-tutorial/pull/1
<rick_h_> brousch: sorry, MP came first and I use that a lot more in a day
<derekv> well so much for squashing my wip commit
<rick_h_> doh
<derekv> =p
<rick_h_> git co -b wtf_did_rick_do && git merge ...
<rick_h_> and with that today has sucked and I'm running away...
<snap-l> rick_h_: That bad?
<derekv> ITS NP
<derekv> capslock die
<derekv> i need sleep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-06
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/jeffs-dining-table-part-1/
<shakes808> Hello all
<rick_h_> howdy
<shakes808> Can someone help me with some GIT? Testing things out to merge files and resolve conflicts
<shakes808> I can't find anything that is really useful
<shakes808> GitHub won't merge the files because of conflicts
<shakes808> I can do a git diff on the files
<shakes808> how do I merge lines over?
<rick_h_> you edit the files
<rick_h_> and then resolve them with git add XX
<shakes808> So I can't do a diff and merge only parts of files over via the command line?
<shakes808> So, what? Go into my file and add in those lines?
<rick_h_> well I guess how did you get to where you are now?
<shakes808> My buddy and I are making changes via Notepad++ and then in command line we are adding and then committing. He went into GitHub and sent me a Pull Request. Then I went into GitHub and looked at it there but couldn't do a merge on it. It gave me instructions to merge but it won't because of conflicts. I want to go through the conflicts to merge the documents
<rick_h_> jcastro: ping
<jcastro> yo
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/880/ mean anything to you?
<rick_h_> searching if my ec2 isn't setup right or not
<jcastro> looks like you need to send the charm some config options
<rick_h_> ok, don't see it in the charm but wondered if it was charm or env for bringing something up
<rick_h_> thanks
<jcastro> I think that's a charm thing
<jcastro> pretty sure
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool thanks
<jcastro> oh nice work ubuntu, blank readmes
<rick_h_> yea :(
<jcastro> see if negronjl is on #juju
<rick_h_> trying to charm something of my own
<jcastro> he's west coast and usually around
<jcastro> whatcha charmin?
<rick_h_> but going to try to set it up on ec2
<rick_h_> http://r.bmark.us/ first
<rick_h_> and if it goes well I'll try to do bookie
<jcastro> I would try
<jcastro> hmm
<jcastro> why would you have userpass auth
<jcastro> sanitize and show me your environments.yaml pls
<rick_h_> yea, and redis-master has no config file
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> did you try on a non-t1 micro?
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://pastebin.canonical.com/83953/
<rick_h_> jcastro: no, didn't yet.
<rick_h_> same error if I leave off the constraint
<jcastro> default: canonistack is your problem
<jcastro> you need to -eec2 to your original command
<jcastro> to use your ec2 env
<rick_h_> ah bah, remembered the -e on bootstrap but not on the deploy
<jcastro> instead of your canonistack
<jcastro> yep
<rick_h_> thanks
<jcastro> one trick juan does is implement a bash alias to set the JUJU_ENVIRONMENT variable
<jcastro> so he can skip the -e thing and just switch between environments as a whole
<rick_h_> makes sense
<rick_h_> shakes808: ok, so the idea here is that he's got a branch up you want to merge
<rick_h_> but it's got conflicts
<rick_h_> so what you want to do is create a local branch
<rick_h_> git checkout -b pull_friends_stuff
<rick_h_> and then you want to merge his branch into yours and get all the conflicts
<rick_h_> git merge git://path..to..hhis..branch branchname
<rick_h_> and then resolve the conflicts, change over to master, merge your pull_friends_stuff and then push master back up
<rick_h_> don't try to keep with the github gui. It's nice and all but as you're finding it doesn't help
<rick_h_> bah, sniped on ebay again
<rick_h_> ok well...must walk away
<shakes808> rick_h: Trying to go through some scenarios and trying to figure this stuff out
<shakes808> lol
<rick_h_> bring it to CHC?
<shakes808> I was trying to do testing with myself and merging stuff but never really go conflicts
<shakes808> I might be able to show up.
<shakes808> for a little bit
<rick_h_> up to you, might be easier to figure out
<shakes808> I will hop on IRC during the day and let you know. It will be much easier.
<shakes808> You have a good night and I will most likely be there tomorrow
<snap-l> Evening
<greg-g> rick_h_: cool intro video. Thanks
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea thuoght maybe this 'get into woodworking week' stuff might be of interest
<rick_h_> nothing about spoons :/ lol
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> I can't imagine spoons are that easy to make
<snap-l> Seems like a lot of sanding
<rick_h_> naw
<rick_h_> lots of carving
<rick_h_> who needs sanding
<brousch> I don't want splinters from my spoon
<rick_h_> wimp :P
<shakes808> Good morning all
<brousch> Good morning one
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> used Blazeix's fancy link now in the CHC announcements. Thanks Blazeix! :)
<snap-l> w000t
<brousch> whoa
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol the world is crazy https://twitter.com/simonw/status/299165514033418241
<brousch> You could 3D print spoons
<rick_h_> except for the 'wood' part
 * brousch looks into wood-grain 3d printing
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<rick_h_> hah, crazy thing of the day http://docs.topazruby.com/en/latest/blog/announcing-topaz/
<jrwren> no, but you could certainly use a different CAM for wood spons
<jrwren> *spoons
<brousch> rick_h_: That hurts my mind
<snap-l> http://www.slideshare.net/dberkholz/assholes-are-killing-your-project-fosdem
<greg-g> rick_h_: awesome!
<rick_h_> snap-l: lol
<rick_h_> *sigh* .... I'm going to have a field day with my wife now. This is why we don't give out emails.
<rick_h_> just got a giant CC email from my son's day care with everyone in the CC
<greg-g> at first I thought you meant my current employer :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> so now my reply 'confirmation' has to be a lesson no BCC vs CC and wtf it means to want to keep my information private.
<rick_h_> *double sigh*
<brousch> rick_h_: Give up
<snap-l> http://programmingisterrible.com/post/42432568185/how-to-parse-ruby
<jhansonxi> rick_h_: I once worked for Eaton back in the days of the "ISO 9000" craze.  About once a week, some salesperson in some distant division would email "everyone" that one of their favorite vendors received ISO 9000 certification.  A few dozen recipients would reply "WTF do I care?" via "reply all".  Mail servers would collapse for a few hours.
<snap-l> http://vimcasts.org/blog/2013/02/habit-breaking-habit-making/
<snap-l> I'm not sure I agree this is a bad habit
<snap-l> but then again, I have many finely grained bad habits
<rick_h_> I did that to get me onto hjkl
<rick_h_> I nop'd the arrows
<snap-l> http://blog.magnatune.com/2013/02/iphone-app-for-background-music-for-restaurants-and-businesses.html
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-07
<shakes808> Good moring all
<rick_h_> morning git master :)
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> yeah
<shakes808> ...
<shakes808> Going to need to work it for a while to become Git Master Level: Rick
<snap-l> Good morning
<jjesse> good morning
<snap-l> shakes808: I can whole-heartedly recommend the Version Control with Git 2e book
<jjesse> how is the beautiful state of michigan today?
<snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920022862.do
<snap-l> jjesse: Cold and hunkering down for Storm Thursday
<jjesse> that sucks, driving home today
<snap-l> Hope you have a safe trip back. Where are you now?
<jjesse> Pittsburgh
<jjesse> was in DC saturday through wednesday
<jjesse> yesterday drove from DC to Pittsburgh for some meetings
<snap-l> I believe it's coming from the west, but yeah, the sooner you're on the road, the better you'll be.
<jjesse> meetings last night and lunch
<jjesse> and then drive hoome
<brousch> jjesse: We're gonna get pounded again today. Good luck
<jjesse> that sucks
<brousch> Get here before 3pm
<jjesse> that won't happen
<jjesse> lunch meeting doesn't get over until 2pm
<brousch> You're doomed
<jjesse> yeah
<jjesse> we drove out to DC on Saturday and it was pretty crappy in Ohio
<jjesse> but Ohio sucks
<shakes808> snap-l: ... that cost money :-\ lol
<brousch> Actually it might not get bad until you hit 131
<shakes808> +1
<rick_h_> shakes808: DSUG it
<shakes808> lol oh yea
<rick_h_> still costs $$ but helps
<shakes808> Says I don't meet the requirements for it
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> and i put the more expensive ebook and print
<shakes808> is there a price limit?
<rick_h_> so if I put in discount code on the ebook DSUG it goes to $13.99
<shakes808> ???
<shakes808> worked with just the ebook
<shakes808> ...
<shakes808> but not the package with both ? wierd
<brousch> I think DSUG is just for ebooks
<shakes808> under the book it says "You save 40% on books, 50% on ebooks and videos."
<shakes808> oh well. that is more doable :D
<brousch> Hm, DSUG should give 40% off print books and 50% off ebooks
<rick_h_> but guess it hates the discount when you get both together
<brousch> Maybe the book+ebook is already on sale
<shakes808> possibly
<snap-l> I got the DSUG to work
<snap-l> But yeah, just the ebook
<rick_h_> awesome http://i.imgur.com/m9kF98S.png
<greg-g> I'm actually kind of excited and impressed about this: http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2013/02/07/the-document-foundation-announces-libreoffice-4-0/
<rick_h_> cool, I want to get excited but just lack of usage in normal life holds me back
<greg-g> yeah, just the amount of community involvement is aewsome
<greg-g> I'll probably stop using it as much as I do now :)
<brousch> http://blog.everyblock.com/2013/feb/07/goodbye/
<greg-g> brousch: whoa, sad
<rick_h_> I didn't really know about everyblock
<rick_h_> seems it's hitting everyone hard but hard to join along
<greg-g> I never used it, but it was serving a need I wanted to be filled
<brousch> I think localwiki is an open source of everyblock
<brousch> fork
<greg-g> kinda yeah
<greg-g> and that guy that runs that is... interesting
<greg-g> nice, but intens
<greg-g> e
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I've been working on the GR localwiki, which is why I mention it
<greg-g> cool
<brousch> Putting my Django to good use
<greg-g> mmmm, my fingers still smell like bacon from breakfast
<widox> greg-g: no longer a vegetarian?
<greg-g> widox: not at all, in fact, potentially the opposite, doing the paleo thing now
<greg-g> so I have eggs and bacon every morning :)
<widox> hah!
<greg-g> but, spendy bacon/meat, all grass feed, organic beef, pastured organic pig, same with poultry
<widox> interesting
<jcastro> woo paleo!
<snap-l> jcastro: JoDee is complaining that her Google Searches for the black hole of Cygnus X-1 are turning up Rush references. ;)
<snap-l> "I love Rush, but..."
<jcastro> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-08
 * rick_h_ grumbles still can't find a decent high res desktop display...
<rick_h_> Blazeix's res has me jealous
<snap-l> heh
<caboose1911> Good evening everyone, what is going on?
<rick_h_> boooo, giving my wife the subie to drive so no play time for me...
<rick_h_> I've got an itch to get a coffee...from woodward...
<jcastro> man you guys got way more snow than us rick_h_
<jjesse> happy friday
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, think it was more up north from what I was hearing
<rick_h_> think we had 4" at 6am and it's starting to come down more
<rick_h_> had to send the wife out with the subie...guess I need to go get my touareg today instead of next month :P
<jjesse> i was surprised on the drive home last night the roads were dry all the way until we got off the highway in Grand Rapids
<rick_h_> can't go play :(
<rick_h_> jjesse: that's awesome. Yea when I went to bed 11pm it was clear as can be
<jjesse> yeah everyone was wondering when we would hit the snow and stuff and we didn't until we got home
<jjesse> must have timed it just right
<brousch> jjesse: We got a few inches during the day, then like 6" at night
<jjesse> yeah i noticed the 6 inches over night trust me ;)
<brousch> I barely got out of our road
<brousch> Wyoming cancelled school
<jjesse> i think everyone canceled school
<jjesse> how come it seems that back when i was in school they never canceled school
<jjesse> and now it seems school gets canceled a lot?
<brousch> Scools are wimps now
<brousch> Although this is the first time Wyoming has cancelled
<rick_h_> so is there any non sucky jewelry place out by us snap-l jcastro and company?
<jcastro> what kind of jewelry, you talking repair and whatnot or shopping?
<jjesse> rick_h_, i thought of you when i saw this article on competitive wood planning in japan http://kottke.org/13/02/competitive-wood-planing
<jjesse> planin
<jjesse> argh
<jjesse> need more coffee
<rick_h_> jcastro: shopping
<jcastro> rick_h_: the tappers in farmington is nice, that's where we got our wedding stuff
<rick_h_> jcastro: 10yrs since we started dating, time to get something decent for valentines I guess.
<jcastro> tappers then
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool, thanks
<jcastro> jill has an idea of a place too, will send over email
<rick_h_> jcastro: very cool, appreciate it
<rick_h_> when I got rings it was some years ago and I went to GR for it
<jcastro> I got Jill an extra diamond band last year to plus up her ring
<jcastro> and I ended up getting something for myself too, heh
<jcastro> rick_h_: you might want to scope out cobalt rings for yourself, they're cheap
<jcastro> and they look bad ass
<rick_h_> very cool, yea I think she's always wanted a bracelet, but I can't stand jewelry places and the used car salesman way they run
<rick_h_> if things are always 50% off...they're not really 50% off :P
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I am very practical when it comes to things like that.
<rick_h_> right, the place I went to in GR was a small family place. Very cool to work with...just don't have time for that drive right now
<jcastro> Too many people I know with sick rocks living paycheck to paycheck
<brousch> rick_h_: We're just right up the road!
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<brousch> Where did you go?
<rick_h_> brousch: I *think* it was http://devriesjewelers.com/devries2012about-us/ ? honestly been years and not 100% sure
<brousch> I've not been there
<rick_h_> map seems about right. I'm too visual with stuff. I can still picture the left turn into the road it sat on
<brousch> Google Street View!
<snap-l> rick_h_: There's a place I trust called Miner's Den
<snap-l> It's on Rochester Road, North of 13 mile
<snap-l> Parking lot is stupid, but they're genuine
<snap-l> http://www.minersden.com/
<snap-l> They also do battery replacements on watches for a donation to the Boy's Club
<snap-l> <3 it when a place says they have a blog and it doesn't have an RSS feed
<snap-l> No, you have an announcement section nobody will read.
<snap-l> We got our wedding bands from Dobie Jewelers in Royal Oak. Sadly they're long extinct.
<brousch> Is that where Dobie went after Harry Potter?
<snap-l> That's Dobby
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool thanks
<snap-l> That's where Dolby went after solving the surround problem.
<brousch> OH, so it was started by one of the Dobie Brothers?
<snap-l> Doobie
<shakes808> Good morn\ing all
<shakes808> morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: I was going to ask you which one you got.
<snap-l> was re: snow pusher
<rick_h_> that pusher + http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A28780/ref=wms_ohs_product for the edges
<rick_h_> you don't want to be picking up the pusher, you're just clearing to the sides, then clean up the sides with the snow shovel for tag team bliss
<snap-l> I'll pick it up next week when the Paypal account replenishes.
<snap-l> I have a nice fiberglass shovel that has a nice scoop on it, but I think the pusher would compliment it
<snap-l> Wonder if Meijer carries them. They're workng on clearing out their winter stuff.
<snap-l> Hmm.
<brousch> You guys crack me up
<snap-l> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bG60dYOnyDI/URUodoSP4yI/AAAAAAAATds/-_3og_UeiwY/s630/YpENU35978.jpg
<brousch> snap-l: Those are obviously foreign plates. I call shenanigans
<snap-l> Yeah,
<rick_h_> damn wind is making me grumpy. I already shoveled that area a second time dammit
 * greg-g is totally jealous
<greg-g> plz don't share pics
<brousch> Hush
<brousch> I got home at lunch to a 2.5ft tall and 5ft deep wall of snow blocking my driveway
<greg-g> AWESOME
<brousch> SUCKY
<jjesse> yay for snow plows?
<brousch> I was hoping they'd hold off
<jjesse> had to stop at my folks house and you could tell the plow route
<jjesse> cause the streets that weren't plowed the entrance was buried under snow
<rick_h_> bah, I want to get a coffee but don't want to head out in the wife's car.
<shakes808> :D
<snap-l> rick_h_: This is why God invented Keurig. ;)
<shakes808> http://www.bash.org/?111338
<snap-l> shakes808: I'd like my 15 seconds back
<brousch> rick_h_: Hook the dog up and put on some skis
<snap-l> rick_h_: Um, I'm seeing the Bookie favicon replaced with AT&Ts
<shakes808> snap-l: No refunds sorry
<snap-l> (in Chrome)
<greg-g> snap-l: are you on att?
<snap-l> wide open west
<greg-g> I get that when our net connection flickers and the router repalces every request with a "your net is down, so sorry" with att favicon
<snap-l> I'll be right upset if AT&T is in the mix since I have Wide Open West
<greg-g> yeah :) not the issue then ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: open an incognito window and try again?
<rick_h_> somehow confuse chrome? I'm not seeing it in any way
<snap-l> rick_h_: Same
<snap-l> Even with shift reload
<rick_h_> snap-l: hmm, https://bmark.us/static/favicon.ico ?
<rick_h_> and https://bmark.us/favicon.ico
<snap-l> one sec. I took a screenshot
<snap-l> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxs5aido3ky38qf/Screenshot%20from%202013-02-08%2013%3A49%3A12.png
<rick_h_> I believe you see it, but nothing here to do it. The ico is showing correct. The browser/network you're on are playing games with you
<snap-l> Probably when I was browsing at B&N last night
<snap-l> since they have that stupid redirect shit
<rick_h_> ah, true
<snap-l> That would explain it
<rick_h_> and chrome will cache things to no end
<snap-l> Gah, now I have to wait for that shit to expire.
<snap-l> DAMN YOU CHROME
<rick_h_> must be a setting somewhere to clear all that?
<snap-l> Considering it's migrated from my laptop to my desktop, I'm not so sure. :)
<rick_h_> speaking of bookie related things anyone care to upvote my reddit comment? http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/184y34/how_would_i_create_an_offlineusable_version_of/
<rick_h_> I'm a sucker for begging for votes
<snap-l> Seriously, my laptop was where I browsed on B&N network, but my desktop is where i'm seeing the icon change.
<brousch> favicon works for me
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, it's just CHrome being stupid.
<rick_h_> well, part B&N
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> Just your Chrome
<brousch> Maybe you got the ATT virus
<snap-l> brousch: Please to go to said bookstore and click on your bookmark there before logging in
<brousch> no
<jrwren> i'm a sucker for upvoting for rick_h_ and jcastro
<jcastro> WHO LIKES ATWOOD?
<jcastro> http://www.jorgecastro.org/2013/02/08/playing-around-with-discourse/
<jcastro> I DO.
<snap-l> I hope it replaces the shit out of the Ubuntu FOrums
<rick_h_> oh joy...let's scale rails to ubuntu forums
<brousch> Convore is back, but this time it's rails?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Two birds, one stone. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-09
<derekv> i'm already using zope
<derekv> so
<derekv> need import transation
<derekv> or something
<derekv> sqlalchemy is not behaving as per examples i'm seeing
<derekv> apparently i got sqlalchemy and then zope and then pyarmid_tm all in my business
<derekv> got it via trial and error
<derekv> http://agile-hamlet-2168.herokuapp.com/
<snap-l> Good morning
<derekv> good morning its sunny!
<derekv> I'm really hating "event type" as a user facing term
<derekv> better to call it a "clicker" or "counter" or "thingamaroo"
<derekv> rick_h_: I was just about to ask something
<derekv> but googling around I found the answer on SO
<derekv> posted by you =]
<snap-l> It's like getting a rick_h_ for free. :)
<rick_h_> derekv: lol what was it?
<rick_h_> I love it when I find people I know like that
<rick_h_> does skype not intall in 64bit without all the 32bit libs?
<rick_h_> wtf...I don't want to reinstall half my system to get skype working
<rick_h_> took the boy to the science center today and had fun at the planetarium show. Now must resist urge to get a giant telescope
<rick_h_> snap-l: might have to bug jodee on her knowledge of that stuff :P oooh crankbook has open observatory times
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live Video http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=t58o3qqpVtc and Audio  http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-02-10
<derekv> how the heck do you pageup in irssi if you have a pageup
<derekv> key
<derekv> nvm
<snap-l> rick_h_: JoDee doesn't do a whole lot with scopes
<snap-l> mostly because owning a good scope in Michigan is pointless
<snap-l> we get 1/3 of the year with cloudless skies at tops. :)
<derekv> pyramid is turning out to be a bit heavier than what I was hoping.  maybe should have gone with flask
<derekv> or have gone through the longer tutorials
<rick_h_> what's heavy?
<rick_h_> derekv: ^
<rick_h_> snap-l: :( oh well
<rick_h_> need to wait a bit anyway
<rick_h_> still cool to ponder
<derekv> fuuuu  how come i have two elements, tal:condition="logged_in" and tal:condition="not:logged_in" and they both show?
<rick_h_> derekv: code?
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: addendum: You live in Clarkston, so getting a scope is a good idea
<snap-l> just don't go out and get a mini-observatory. :)
<snap-l> At least not yet. :)
<rick_h_droid> lol why does Clarkston matter?
<rick_h_droid> http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Dobsonian-Telescopes/GoTo-Dobsonians/Orion-SkyQuest-XX12g-GoTo-Truss-Tube-Dobsonian-Telescope/pc/1/c/12/sc/30/p/102022.uts hehe
<jrwren> less light polution
<jrwren> down here in Milan we get even less.
<snap-l> Yeah, there's a lot more light polution around here.
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Think of telescopes like golf clubs. You can spend yourself blind trying to get one more yard. :)
<snap-l> rick_h_droid: Also, if you buy that one, JoDee will be over. A lot.
<rick_h_droid> lol
<rick_h_droid> I think it'll be a bit. We had fun but will be cool when he's older. Looks like there's an astronomy club in Clarkston though can't tell if it's active.
<snap-l> What's it called?
<rick_h_droid> snap-l http://www.go-astronomy.com/astronomy-club.php?ID=183
<snap-l> Hm, haven't heard of that one
<snap-l> I think it's called The Oakland Astronomy Club
<snap-l> er, n/m
<snap-l> JoDee just said "That's the Oakland one"
<snap-l> I thought it changed names or something
<rick_h_droid> yea not lot of info there
<snap-l> I know where you can take some astronomy courses at community colleges. ;)
<rick_h_droid> lol
<derekv> Alembic!
<derekv> imma use it
<derekv> later
<derekv> for now, I can just blow it away
<derekv> so next i need a script to drop tables and recreate them i can call from the python console easily
<derekv> a little like the initialize_db script but in git so that I can evoke it on heroku
<derekv> drop_all() create_all()
<jrwren> of course.
<jrwren> use south.
<rick_h_> south if for django :P
<rick_h_> and /me hates south...
<derekv> i made a script called blastdb
<derekv> and i run the app with foreman
<derekv> then i connect to it with foreman run python
<rick_h_> so what db are you storing stuff in on heroku?
<derekv> and i can'r run the sciprt
<rick_h_> sqlite won't work
<derekv> rick_h_: deploying to heroku, postgres
<rick_h_> forman is just the local app runner
<rick_h_> can it run back side scripts?
<derekv> yea, running with foreman because i want to test the blastdb script
<derekv> rick_h_: you can get a python console in you apps environment with 'heroku run python'
<derekv> thats how i created the database in the first place
<derekv> by looking at the initialize_db script and improvising
<rick_h_> derekv: yes
<derekv> but i want to be able to do it with one command so i don't have to figure it out each time
<rick_h_> just never needed to so didn't realize how that worked
<derekv> so my project.scipts.blastdb imports from ..models , which apparently evokes project.__init__, which imports stuff from pyramid, and fails with no module named pyramid.config
<rick_h_> right, this is what a Makefile is for
<rick_h_> to automate things
<derekv> i don't think i can run a makefile
<derekv> actually
<derekv> maybe, but only on a push
<rick_h_> hah, yea, now you can see why I have https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/__init__.py#L49
<rick_h_> so I can do https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/scripts/readability/existing.py#L99
<derekv> http://agile-hamlet-2168.herokuapp.com/
<derekv> or maybe not =(
<rick_h_> loaded
<rick_h_> just took a while to start it seems
<rick_h_> lol, Envy Code R?
<derekv> yea must go to sleep idk
<derekv> =]
<rick_h_> yea, heroku does that on the free tier
<derekv> just for fun
<rick_h_> after about an hour idle it shuts down the app and first request brings it back up
<derekv> login as rick
<derekv> rick_h_: i can imagine, i usually have a few apps with little or just totally empty
<rick_h_> http://agile-hamlet-2168.herokuapp.com/event-types/4
<derekv> 'heroku create' makes an app, there's probably tons of unused apps
<derekv> rick_h_: =]
<derekv> i need to rename everything
<derekv> i hate "event types"
<derekv> thinking of finding a url... but right now just leaning towards 'create a clicker' and a clicker registers clicks
<derekv> so i need to have a favorites table, so you can see at least the clickers youve created
<derekv> i'm already calling them clickers
<derekv> man, if you put a spring app to sleep
<derekv> could take like 2, 3 minutes to wake up
<derekv> which i guess would serve you right
<derekv> so this DBSession is basically a global?
<derekv> mah script works
<Blazeix> jumped from herbstluftwm to i3
<Blazeix> i3 is incredibly unusable in its default configuration
<Blazeix> but after spending a few hours hacking it, it's exactly how i want it.
<rick_h_droid> yea that was my impression of i3
<rick_h_droid> maybe I should spend more config time on it
<rick_h_droid> what was it that killed herb...?
<Blazeix> manual tiling was too much thinking
<Blazeix> i basically pretended it didn't exist, but there were a few edge cases that forced me to manually tile
<rick_h_droid> yea i3 was a bit like that ootb
<Blazeix> i3 is incredibly flexible. it comes with vim-style modes and marks
<Blazeix> but i've disabled all modes, specifically the stupid resize mode thing
<rick_h_droid> yea
<derekv> who was it that i was listening to recently that wasn't really a developer that ended up getting into haskell because of xmonad
<derekv> maybe it was the solarized guy
<derekv> maybe this is what powershell should have been : http://pythonnet.sourceforge.net/
<derekv> maybe china is on the top of the world, and we're walking upside down!
<derekv> Typo of the week:  ForeignKey('EventTypoe.eid')
<Blazeix> nice
<greg-g> rick_h_droid: that is some sexy looking wood
<rick_h_> greg-g: :)
<rick_h_> not had much time lately, but starting to look like something
<rick_h_> looking forward to pres day :)
<greg-g> :)
<derekv> i saw this sigle line lambda thing and was like D=
<derekv> but then i saw def over def and was like =D
<derekv> rick_h_: so the return from your view needs to be a dict/or array of dicts or arrays?
<derekv> cant just pass a list of objects?
<derekv> seems to be what I'm getting but I'm hoping I'm doing it wrong and don't have to turn my objects into dicts always
<rick_h_droid> so the dict keys turn into variable names in the template scope. without you don't have easy access
<derekv> D=
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-03
<cmaloney> greg-g: Do the honorable thing
<cmaloney> whine about it on the internet
<cmaloney> I hear Twitter is good for that sort of thing. :)
<greg-g> :D
<waf> greg-g: they're actually streaming it online for free
<waf> fox sports is
<waf> first time i've been able to watch it on linux in a legit manner
<greg-g> huh
<waf> for certain values of "watch"
<greg-g> (sorry to totally divert the topic)
<greg-g> but, from this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_halftime_shows I have learned a lot about the downhill spiral of pro footbal
<greg-g> ball
<derekv> downhill spiral #newphysics
<greg-g> sooo, math and cs
 * greg-g feels bad
<derekv> cs is an applied math
<greg-g> cs is just for people who can't do math
<derekv> actually
<derekv> software developement is more of a trade
<derekv> occasionally approaching engineering, but not usually
<derekv> the more you know, the science, the math, etc, it all helps you in the trade.  Gives you more tools
<derekv> does everyone writing enterprise web apps need to go back and learn pointers or learn haskell?  no.  they might be better at their trade if they did, but its totally not nessisiary ...
<derekv> as much as I groan at the sight of it, if I'm honest if every developer just simply read "Clean Code", then things would be better off
<derekv> I think that's what schools need to do
<derekv> seperate out the trade from the science
<derekv> and be so good at teaching the trade that its no shame to focus on one vs the other
<derekv> in fact if I could judge from the code I saw that my professors wrote, they have no clue
<derekv> the one's I had anyways
<callmeDarwin> when I got my CS and Math BA's there was no jobs for Mathematicians.
<derekv> cmaloney: you can get a job in CS with a Math degree, not the other way around
<derekv> callmeDarwin <-
<derekv> i think there was sortof this idea with having added ad BS in Software Engineering ... but they sortof where missing the mark
<callmeDarwin> derekv: your right.  Many of the best programmers I've worked with have degrees not on CS
<derekv> I don't doubt that for a lot of people who stay in CS acadamia, its partly because they have no interest in craftsmanship or practical details of real life, dirty as hell, large scale systems
<derekv> callmeDarwin: for some reason I keep meeting people with degrees in ME
<derekv> I'm guessing anyone who can get a B.S. in math can learn to program no problem.  Most can be really good programmers if they try.
<callmeDarwin> two of my favorite folks had Chemistry and Library Science
<derekv> Library Science was always an interesting degree to me
<callmeDarwin> I only needed 3 more Math classes after I had my CS degree so stayed an extra semester for the Math BA
<callmeDarwin> Library Science now is just Data.
<derekv> callmeDarwin: I was almost that close I think
<brousch> Good morning
<rick_h_> one more hour of work left!
<brousch> rick_h_: Then swimming with the sharks?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, just trying not to get sunburned
<cmaloney> ugh
<greg-g> grrr, I have TMJ, but the food I like eating is chewy
<greg-g> ie: exactly the thing you don't want to do with TMJ
<brousch> What is TMJ? Too Much Jam?
<greg-g> he
<greg-g> h
<greg-g> basically, sore jaw joint
<greg-g> if it gets really bad, can be lock-jaw
<brousch> Thank goodness for TTS!
<greg-g> TTS?
<greg-g> should we both just exchange lmgtfy.com/ links?
<brousch> Text to speech. For when your lockjaw sets in
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> also, yuck re twitter's new layout/theme
<cmaloney> greg-g: New = ?
<greg-g> like, today
<greg-g> 30 minutes ago for me
<cmaloney> ah
<cmaloney> Yeah, looks like shit
<cmaloney>  whatevs.
<cmaloney> https://ting.com/blog/we-have-slashed-our-data-pricing/
<brousch> The only thing I don't love about Ting so far is the crappy Sprint network
<greg-g> yeah :/
<mathomastech> I just switched from AT&T to Ting about 2 weeks ago. I've definitely noticed weaker signal most everywhere, but haven't run into no signal yet. Luckily, most of my life is covered by Wi-Fi.
<greg-g> yeah, my phone is a slow tablet plus SMS machine
<greg-g> dangit, I missed the pre-noon lunch window
<greg-g> now everything is busy
<greg-g> #firstworldproblem
<rick_h_> greg-g: :P
<brousch> What kind of crappy West Coast company do you work for that doesn't have catered lunch?
<cmaloney> Yeah, Sprint is definitely dead-last as far as network
<cmaloney> though I've noticed some improvement
<MaskedDriver> cmaloney, I don't know what sprint you've been using
<MaskedDriver> I work in downtown detroit, and I hit 100% dead zones all the time lol
<cmaloney> MaskedDriver: I'm in Farmington so it's better
<MaskedDriver> ah
<cmaloney> But yeah, if I'm working on Detroit I'm buying a pay-as-you-go-Verizon phone
<brousch> Mine is great in downtown GR as long as no big events are going on. But 1 mile outside of downtown and it's crap
<cmaloney> as backup. :)
<MaskedDriver> I've noticed some improvements in Clarkston, but nothing impressive
<cmaloney> brousch: ugh
<MaskedDriver> luckily for me, the Quicken Loans wifi reaches everywhere in downtown D, so I don't really have to worry about whether I have 4g/3g service
<greg-g> .... what?!
<MaskedDriver> ?
<greg-g> Quicken Loans WiFi?
<greg-g> is this some sponsored wifi thing?
<MaskedDriver> no
<MaskedDriver> it's for QL team members
<greg-g> weird
<MaskedDriver> you drop signal a little walking between buildings, but it's rare
<greg-g> very weird
<MaskedDriver> why is that weird?
<greg-g> what is the need?
<cmaloney> greg-g: You lived here. There's only Three companies in Downtown.
<greg-g> how many quicken loans people are there in downtown Detroit?
<cmaloney> Quicken Loans, GM, and Compuware. ;)
<greg-g> oh
<MaskedDriver> 12k?
<greg-g> oooohhhh
<greg-g> less weird
<greg-g> :)
<MaskedDriver> lol
<MaskedDriver> we occupy and nearly 100% capacity 3 high-rises
<brousch> Which one will become OCP?
<MaskedDriver> Compuware building, chase tower(reanmed the Qube), and First National
<greg-g> wow
<MaskedDriver> OCP?
<cmaloney> brousch: Robocop reference?
<greg-g> probably
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omni_Consumer_Products_(RoboCop)#Omni_Consumer_Products
<MaskedDriver> lol ah yeah
<widox> although, Quicken only has a few floors of the Compuware building
<MaskedDriver> yeah. I'm on the 9th floor of that
<MaskedDriver> most IT is in here
<cmaloney> I just hope they don't make the jump to Quicken Drones.
<cmaloney> Because that would be bad.
<MaskedDriver> lol
<widox> don't move before signing up for a mortgage!
<MaskedDriver> I actually just started with one of their companies, Quizzle, in December
<cmaloney> Fo shizzle?
<MaskedDriver> yeah
<MaskedDriver> commute from Clarkston is rough (especially with the winter the way it was), but totally worth it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-04
<gamerchick02> sorry about last night, everyone. i meant to be here but my irc client decided not to connect
<gamerchick02> lol i just got the email about the meeting being canceled. i thought it was my irc program or my network. rebooted the router, rebooted the modem, rebooted my machine, and tried three different irc programs.
<gamerchick02> (on my mac)
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That's OK. Freenode was a bag of disconnects.
<gamerchick02> i noticed
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> I look forward to a renwed Microsoft
<cmaloney> Honestly every time Steve Ballmer took to the stage I cringed a little.
<brousch> cmaloney: You actually watched?
<cmaloney> Not directly, but seeing the pull quotes from articles were enough to institute cringing.
<cmaloney> It was pretty apparent where the vision of Microsoft was in the CEO chair
<cmaloney> Bill was a strategist and tactician
<cmaloney> not always accurate but devestatingly cunning
<cmaloney> Ballmer is a sales person
<cmaloney> in every sense of that profession
<cmaloney> Not terribly strategic, not terribly cunning, but able to read markets and try to adapt to meet them
<cmaloney> and unfortunately for Ballmer, not particularly adept at having Microsoft not middle-manage itself to death.
<cmaloney> I swear media companies are really dumb: https://twitter.com/TheWOWBuzz/status/430800930871578624
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-05
<greg-g> I HATE YOU GOOGLE
<brousch> GOOGLE IS GOD
<brousch> I think this Chromebook posted that automatically
<greg-g> I hope this desktop recording worked, it'll show you the level of annoyance
<gamerchick02> strong feelings on both sides of this fence.
<greg-g> you're either with us, or against us
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i'm a google-ite, is that a word?
<cmaloney> I think that's a gacolyte
<cmaloney> New OMC episode for your downloading pleasure
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> roads are not fun this morning
<MaskedDriver> cmaloney, you're telling me. Took me 3 hours from Clarkston to Detroit
<rick_h_> ugh
<brousch> It's just a few more inches of snow. What's the problem?
<cmaloney> I'm hanging out at JoDee's school working remotely because it's too treacherous to drive back
<cmaloney> brousch: It hit right during rush hour.
<MaskedDriver> brousch: diaf lol
<cmaloney> the height of the snow
<cmaloney> So yes, just a little more snow, but timed poorly for any snow removal
<brousch> I didn't even notice it on top of my small 3ft piles
<brousch> It was even pleasant snow to throw over my 8ft piles
<brousch> Barely hurt my back at all this morning!
<rick_h_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/alzol9idh0q7a6g/2014-02-05%2016.20.45.jpg
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2xysp8zhifn43u/2014-02-04%2013.00.35.jpg
<rick_h_> :P
 * brousch sets a reminder to kick rick_h_ square in the nuts next time he sees him
<rick_h_> I got a little too much sun the other day. Had to buy a hat
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I'm very happy for you.
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> I'm not. I hope a shark bites off his toe
<rick_h_> it's ok, going to be a shock when I get back
<cmaloney> Seeing your and jcastro's pictures gives me hope for the future.
<rick_h_> leave when it'll be 85 out and then when I land it looks like I'm hoping for 20 on sunday
<cmaloney> when I shove an entire snow-drift down the back of your necks. ;)
<brousch> cmaloney: Call his wife. She needs to make sure he trips into a snow bank when he gets home
<cmaloney> brousch: I don' t think that'll be necessary
<cmaloney> Pretty sure she'll handle it herself.
<rick_h_> oh, I'm sure I'll get something
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<cmaloney> hate when I have a debugger session open that keeps a lock on a mysql table.
<cmaloney> wondered why it wasn't dropping / loading
<brousch> mysql?
<cmaloney> shut it
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> :D
<cmaloney> This is a battle that predates even me
<brousch> You've had a year to fix it!
<cmaloney> Yep.
<cmaloney> I have failed.
<cmaloney> Technically I've had two years.
<cmaloney> Started in 2012.
<cmaloney> Oh christ. Listening to people talk about how computer people make lots of money.
<cmaloney> not that I'm complaining about my wages. ;)
<cmaloney> but funny hearing folks outside of "the biz" talk about how you can go sell your code and what-not.
<dzho> "will they eat sushi?"
<dzho> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallman-kth.html
<brousch> TL;DR
 * dzho shrugs
<dzho> that's the source of the reference
<dzho> or, rather, that's the reference.  or something.
<dzho> I never get the wording right.
<jrwren> do people use genshi anymore?
<brousch> Is that an herbal tea?
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> python template system
<brousch> I have not heard Genshi for about 3 years
<jrwren> 5-6 here.
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, cheetah took over
<rick_h_> jrwren: much faster and same syntax
<jrwren> thanks rick_h_
<jrwren> not what I want to see on Ec2: Feb  5 20:33:22 heed-1 kernel: [84730.984521] apt-get[6130]: segfault at 7f9fff1dd154 ip 00007fa0004b41c9 sp 00007fff37c00f70 error 6 in libapt-pkg.so.4.12.0[7fa0003df000+121000]
<brousch> I was thinking of a dice roller as a nice app to make, but many of them exist already. Then I thought about how to monetize it without ads. How about if you could load the dice for one roll by paying $1?
<brousch> Like $1 for a natural 20 when you really need it
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> Maybe you could shake the phone certain ways to get certain rolls
<brousch> What the ... http://blog.enthought.com/python/pyxll-deploy-python-to-excel-easily/
<cmaloney> Dammit. Used JoDee's machine this morning and now my fingers don't know where the control key is anymore.
<gamerchick02> she has a funky keyboard?
<cmaloney> The CTRL and Fn keys are swapped from my THinkpad
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-06
<gamerchick02> ah
<cmaloney> Went to CHC and didn't see anyone there, so I came home
<cmaloney> sorry if I missed anyone who did show up but I've had a day and frankly need some away from people time
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> i'm in my pjs and spent a lot of the day dealing with ornery systems and then snow, so yeah
<gamerchick02> switching to the laptop, bbiab
<widox> cmaloney: I'm not there
<gamerchick02> i'm back. and xchat is working now, so that's good
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> afternoon
<cmaloney> Whatever. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: When are you back state-side?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: sunday I get back
<rick_h_> leave sat noon, get back around sunday noon
<rick_h_> and then lose the tan I've picked up this week
<cmaloney> Cool. Needed to know when to have the brass band outside your bedroom window. :)
<rick_h_> lol, or the snow ball throwers?
<cmaloney> Those come when you try to shoo away the band.
<cmaloney> Seriously though, I'm really happy you guys are out there having that experience.
<cmaloney> but I'm sure you're ready to come home
<cmaloney> especially after being downwind of Mark's 100,000ft visions. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I've got back to back Mark S meetings < 1hr and then tomorrow I have to get sign off on wtf we're doing coming up
<rick_h_> so wish me luck and cross your fingers
<cmaloney>  Hope it doesn't morph too much in-between those meetings. :)
<rick_h_> bwuhahahahahaha
<cmaloney> And remember: Steve Jobs insisted that the robot be a certain shade of blue. :)
<cmaloney> so be prepared to paint it auburgine. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> aubergine rather. :)
<rick_h_> crap, I'm in chrome so much that I've got lcd burn in on this laptop display :/
<brousch> You're living like a Chromebook!
<rick_h_> with a nice urxvt terminal for everything else
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Hah
<brousch> We (the company) sold a used Thinkpad T61 to an employee. Today (about 1 week later) he brings it to me and says it won't boot. I pull the battery, plug it back in, and get "Critical Low Battery". Apparently he doesn't know how to charge it
<cmaloney> Maybe he thinks it's one of them nuclear batteries that runs until the heat-death of the universe.
<cmaloney> I mean they have Lithium and Ion in there.
<cmaloney> That should be something
<jrwren> rick_h_: are you serious about the lcd burn in?
<brousch> Should have gotten the Seiki!
<brousch> East Siders: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html#kdmm-corp-agency-ann-arbor-michigan-usa
<cmaloney> No telecommute = no dice.
<cmaloney> not after this winter.
<brousch> Wuss
<brousch> Man-up! Buy a snowblower!
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm so much of a chicken I think I'm starting to lay eggs.
<brousch> Yopu need to change the name of your show to OpenWussieCast and start playing New Age hippie crap
<brousch> Really I'm jaelous of your telecommuting
<cmaloney> Sony's getting out of the VAIO business.
<cmaloney> Now I'm starting to get worried that the laptop market is really going to turn to crap.
<cmaloney> Not that I'd buy a VAIO anyway
<brousch> Tablets are the future
<cmaloney> Yeah, I look forward to developing on a 17" tablet.
<brousch> No. Your 10" tablet will have a keyboard dock and wireless mirroring to your 50" TV
<cmaloney> I already live one ergonomic nightmare, I don't need another. ;)
<brousch> Embrace the futuree
<brousch> I'm going to blame today's many typos on my fingers not working well due to being so dang cold
<jrwren> cmaloney: taht looks like an interesting job
<brousch> rick_h_: Going to the LEGO Movie tomorrow?
<cmaloney> Not sure if it's playing in South Africa. :)
<brousch> Ah, I thought he was back
<cmaloney> Not yet.
<cmaloney> Read scrollback
<brousch> My scrollback extends to 7:55AM :P
<greg-g> get a bouncer :P
<greg-g> (morning)
<brousch> I really don't care what is said when I'm not on
<cmaloney> http://www.slideshare.net/JR0cket/taking-kanban-to-the-masses-agile-cambridge#
<cmaloney> I tried to save this.
<cmaloney> It has a CC license on it
<cmaloney> but the author has disabled saving
<greg-g> brousch: unless I want to leave you a message!
<brousch> greg-g: You have my email :P
<cmaloney> and worse: I found this out after it told me I needed to create a slideshare account in order to save it
<greg-g> brousch: that's hard!
<greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, the worst offender of that is scribd
<cmaloney> So now my slideshare account is "findafireanddieinit"
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> Im surprised that wasn't already taken
<greg-g> cmaloney: you have a way with words :)
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2009/05/27/scribd-your-moment-of-zen/
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> yay, this is my morning:
<greg-g> https://ganglia.wikimedia.org/latest/?c=Application%20servers%20eqiad&m=cpu_report&r=hour&s=by%20name&hc=4&mc=2
<cmaloney> greg-g: Stop pegging the servers. :)
<greg-g> we killed a good number of them, not sure how yet :)
<cmaloney> This feels like my morning:L http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4806311/shit-hit-the-fan-o.gif
<cmaloney> also I hate those mornings where things are going haywire and then stop for no apparent reason.
<greg-g> that's what going on here, though, I have my suspiciouns
<cmaloney> aliens?
<greg-g> no, someone porting our deploy scripts from bash to python
<cmaloney> definitely aliens.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> also, just looked at that preso "Creative Commons License" fucking gah!
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'm assuming it's CC0. ;)
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> fun! http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6887110/
<cmaloney> jrwren: I see the text but I'm not seeing the idea behind it.
<jrwren> how do you randomize a list?
<cmaloney> shuffle()
<jrwren> is that a thing?
<cmaloney> yes
<jrwren> yeah.
<jrwren> so... this is the stupid fun way
<cmaloney> You might say that. ;)
<jrwren> you sort the list by passing a random comparer
<jrwren> i always thought it was funny
<cmaloney> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/976882/shuffling-a-list-of-objects-in-python
<jrwren> import random ; random.shuffle(l)
<jrwren> but this is FUN
<cmaloney> I acknowledge that you find this fun. ;)
<jrwren> lolz
<rick_h_> jrwren: seriously, have a chrome address bar, star icon, and google voice icon burned in on a blank screen
<rick_h_> brousch: no, fly home sat and back sunday so not on my radar atm
<widox> rick_h_: wow, that's crazy
<widox> feel like i haven't seen burned in screen in awhile
<krondor> wow, I think slashdot finally is done for me.  If this beta is an indication of how things will go...
<krondor> syndicated content in the feed?  https_everywhere plugin goes bonkers on geek.net http redirects to https, and more... sigh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-07
<cmaloney> krondor: Yeah, I've pretty much stopped with Slashdot after the introduction of SlashBI
<cmaloney> which to this day does not elicit "Business Intelligence" to me no matter how many times I see it.
<brousch> I only read /. via RSS
<cmaloney> I get my news from Ars Technica and Reddit now.
<cmaloney> and G+ for that matter.
<brousch> Meh. It's a small part of my feeds
<krondor> yeah it's been decreasing for awhile for me... but now I think they're doing their best to kill it.
<krondor> well and I mean the audience has shifted to a point that even the comments now: http://bit.ly/1e9m0Mf
<mathomastech> Perhaps I am alone in this. But the slashdot beta is vastly easlier to read and easier to navigate than the old version. That being said, I spend very little time on /., except when something links back to it.
<cmaloney> http://onethingwell.org/post/75893196347/bookie
<cmaloney> YAY!!!!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: ^^
<krondor> mathomastech:  maybe, I wasn't as off put by the theming changes as I was by functionality breakage and bad content syndicated from other sites
<trevlar> cmaloney: nice!!
<brousch> Bookie is in my feedz!
<brousch> Way to go cmaloney
<brousch> Finally! One language to rule them all http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/02/julia/
<cmaloney> brousch: :)
<cmaloney> Thank you.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-08
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> oy oy
<_stink_> is anyone here willing to share a template of a contract he/she has used as an IT provider?  the work I'm heading toward is a combination of consulting and development, but i'd love any kind of example.  and yes i will get a lawyer once i get some revenue. :)
<cmaloney> I've never done any of that sort of consulting so I don't have the foggiest.
<_stink_> i'm taking a gentle first step.
<_stink_> hopefully there's not a live wire in the water.
<cmaloney> afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-02-09
<gib> Hey
<derekv> do AMD drivers still lag behind NVIDIA?
<cmaloney> derekv: Last I checked they did for the card that I had
<cmaloney> I had all sorts of crashes and what-not
<gib> quit
<rick_h_> morning from the good ole USA!
<rick_h_> ah, diet dr pepper how I missed you
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> chilling in DC waiting for the last leg of the trip
<derekv> bleh
<derekv> should I spend 10k plus to retile and replace tub/toilet/lav and refloor/paint add dishwasher and replace cabinets.
<derekv> or move to s. cali
<derekv> =/
<rick_h_> heh, because it'll be cheaper in S Cali?
<derekv> no
<waf> wow: http://codepad.org/fbAPhlTp
<waf> (warning, the above link contains php code)
<waf> i suppose if you're doing reference manipulation in PHP you're already hosed. but that behavior can't help.
<derekv> hot water dispenser.  180deg f.
<derekv> what is 180degree water good for?
<derekv> green tea I gues
<derekv> kindof wondering if i should install a fancy undersink water filter or get a water cooler and fill up at that water-to-go place
<rick_h_> I just get two of the 3gal things from kroger. They last about a week and I take one in while using the other one
<rick_h_> they're pricey to buy at first, but each fill is < $1 at the water stations at meijer and kroger
<rick_h_> pay for themselves quick
<brousch> Whole house filter or DIAF
<brousch> Feels so good to not be sticky in the shower
<derekv> whole house filters filter less though
<derekv> unless you have a filter the size of a van
<brousch> Ours makes a noticible difference, and it's the size of a chair
<derekv> i see you can get the filter in the form of a water filter, thus not having to mess with hooking up any plumbing
<rick_h_> grrrr, wife did not keep the edges of the drive and only did the center part of it.
<rick_h_> now the edges are 12" wide of solid ice and a pita to try to clean out
<cmaloney> lovely.
<rick_h_> yea, *grumble*
<gamerchick02> hello everyone. i got my maxkeyboard Blackbird this weekend with Cherry MX Browns. i'm in love
<gamerchick02> hi rick_h_
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yay
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: howdy
<gamerchick02> OMG it's like typing on a cloud
<gamerchick02> AND my arms aren't all wonko on my desk. i got the TKL version.
<gamerchick02> love love love love love it!!!
<gamerchick02> much better than the razer.
<cmaloney> Very cool
<gamerchick02> yeah. build quality is better than the razer (though i got a deal on it). now i might get a ducky with browns for work. because the one i have at work is a crappy HP one that is rubber dome and it feels like typing on a mashed potato.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-02
<cmaloney> Schools keep canceling
<gamerchick02> i see that.
<jrwren> 25min?
<gamerchick02> looks like it yeah.
<gamerchick02> 5 minutes?
<waldo323_> Good evening
<cmaloney> Eveing
<cmaloney> We'll be starting in a few minutes.
<gamerchick02> hi
<gamerchick02> Downton.
<gamerchick02> i am here however
<cmaloney> Hello everyone!
<cmaloney> Thank you for tuning in here if you have
<cmaloney> Can I get a quick show of hands?
<cmaloney> o/
<gamerchick02> i'm here
<gamerchick02> gosh Thomas Barrow doesn't get any better (he's a big jerky jerk)
<cmaloney> If anyone else is here feel free to pipe in as needed
<cmaloney> We have a few things to cover and I know there are thrre things folks are watching:
<cmaloney> 1) Superbowl
<cmaloney> 2) Downton Abbey
<cmaloney> 3) School closings and weather reports
<cmaloney> finally saw that JoDee's school is closed tomorrow. :)
<cmaloney> I think any school that is open tomorrow is foolish
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/912/detail/
<cmaloney> ^ Here's the agenda
<gamerchick02> i think you are right
<cmaloney> Item #1: Ubuntu Global Jam
<gamerchick02> thank ye for the link.
<cmaloney> This coming weekend is the Ubuntu Global Jam
<cmaloney> What does this mean?
<cmaloney> It means we'll be meeting this weekend (virtually) to work on Ubuntu stuff
<gamerchick02> 3, 2, 1... let's jam!
<cmaloney> eg: Bug Traige, "Ask Ubuntu", documentation
<cmaloney> Whatever floats your boat.
<gamerchick02> awesome. that's gonna be in the IRC, right?
<cmaloney> It's a great way to get involved with the community.
<cmaloney> It'll be on IRC, and we might do a hangout
<cmaloney> if someone wants to plan out an in-person meeting that would be great too
<cmaloney> UNfortuantely I'm not able to plan something out in this short amount of time
<cmaloney> so we'll at the very least meet online
<gamerchick02> i think that's a good idea.
<cmaloney> If you're participating feel free to say "I'm Jamming" and let us know
<cmaloney> or join the hangout
<cmaloney> Not sure if the hangout will be up all weekend but that's available if you want
<cmaloney> (And where would one find this notional hangout link you might ask?)
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-mi/2968-michigan-ubuntu-global-jam-1504/
<gamerchick02> google plus?
<cmaloney> You can also get to it via the loco directory
<gamerchick02> super smart
<cmaloney> yeah, it's like they thought of everything
<cmaloney> So anywho, we'll play it by ear and hopefully have a great time
<cmaloney> scratch that, we WILL have a great time. :)
<gamerchick02> cool! i'll chill some beers and hang in the IRC!
<cmaloney> Because that's just how we roll
<cmaloney> Any questions?
<waldo323_> Not yet
<gamerchick02> nope. gonna have fun this weekend for the global jam.
<cmaloney> Apparently sportball is tied at half-time
<cmaloney> OK, moving on to item #2
<gamerchick02> and the Dowager is throwing shade all over the place.
<waldo323_> What did they tie it to?
<gamerchick02> LOL
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/912/detail/ <- again, for those playing along at home
<cmaloney> RELEASE PARTY APPROACHETH
<gamerchick02> release party
<cmaloney> Assuming they'll have us we'll be partying at Penguicon
<gamerchick02> oooh. and that's in April, correct?
<cmaloney> Which is April 26th-28th.
<gamerchick02> seems like it never lines up for me.
<waldo323_> What about a room party release party?
<cmaloney> Ideally we'll be there on Friday after work
<cmaloney> waldo323_: If you want to organize it. :)
<waldo323_> I think Penguicon 24th -26th right?
<cmaloney> You are most correct
<cmaloney> 24th-26th
<cmaloney> I fail maths
<waldo323_> Having it at the bar is easier :-)
<cmaloney> Yes, yes it is
<cmaloney> we had it at the bar last year and it worked out pretty well
<waldo323_> Lots of people have been saying different numbers even at the meetings
<waldo323_> So don't feel bad
<waldo323_> Maybe more signage would be good ?
<cmaloney> I think adding it to my subliminal consciousness would be ace.
<cmaloney> Regardless, there are things afoot at Penguicon that you will want to be a part of as pertaining to Ubuntu
<cmaloney> so perchance one mught obtain passes to participate in such pertainment
<gamerchick02> perhaps.
<cmaloney> I'll firm up the date and time
<cmaloney> If you just want to go for the release party it'll cost a day-pass to Penguicon
<cmaloney> but since Penguicon is so awesome you'll want to get the weekend pass
<cmaloney> Trust me
<cmaloney> any questions?
<cmaloney> http://2015.penguicon.org/ for tickets
<cmaloney> Also if you can't make it to Pengiucon and wish to have a release party please let me know and I'll get it up on the calendar
<cmaloney> We can have as many release parties as folks want to organize.
<gamerchick02> i think it would be neat to have one over at the Red Ox near me. are there any ubuntu folks over by Oakland U?
<cmaloney> Likely
<cmaloney> If you want to organize it by all means
<gamerchick02> ok let me see what i can do
<cmaloney> I think it would be awesome to have more than one party.
<gamerchick02> yeah. i can see if there might be some people interested from work too.
<cmaloney> Very cool
<gamerchick02> yeah. and if it doesn't work out as an ubuntu thing i won't be alone with some co-workers around. hah!
<cmaloney> Nice
<cmaloney> OK, any questions on the release party(ies)?
<gamerchick02> maybe later once i mull it over some more.
<cmaloney> OK, last item
<cmaloney> Ubuntu Developer Summit: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<cmaloney> UDS is coming up in May
<cmaloney> This is a great way to help out with Ubuntu and get involved.
<cmaloney> They are online using Google Hangouts
<cmaloney> So you don't have to travel to some remote land in order to participate
<gamerchick02> that's cool. i've never been to one.
<gamerchick02> i'm not really a developer though
<cmaloney> You don't have to be a programmer. :)
<gamerchick02> ah ok.
<brousch> what's up?
<cmaloney> They cover things like documentation, translation, community, etc.
<gamerchick02> cool!
<cmaloney> I don't think the schedule is posted yet but should be posted soon
<gamerchick02> brousch i'm following the meeting in between shade thrown at Downton Abbey.
<cmaloney> Any questions?
<gamerchick02> I'm good i think
<cmaloney> Any other business anyone would like to bring up?
<gamerchick02> i don't have any
<gamerchick02> it's like you're speaking to an empty room... "don't everyone speak up at once"
<cmaloney> Heh, no worries
<cmaloney> Im used to it
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> OK, if there's nothing else then hope everyone enjoys their evening
<cmaloney> and hope you all can work from home tomorrow morning
<cmaloney> because it looks like an utter mess out there.
<_stink_> is it time to go shovel again?
<cmaloney> And apparently Sportball is 24-21
<cmaloney> in favor of one team over the other
<_stink_> yeah we haven't even turned it on
<cmaloney> I watched a bit of the Kitten Bowl training cam
<cmaloney> I'm good
<_stink_> hahaha
<_stink_> we had the puppy bowl on for like 1.5 hours
<cmaloney> That is awesome
<cmaloney> We played "Roll for the Galaxy"
<cmaloney> Had a learning round of that but picked up pretty quickly
<cmaloney> fun game
<cmaloney> https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/132531/roll-galaxy if anyone is interested
<gamerchick02> i watched Downton and now it's Grantchester, aka super-hot-ginger-vicar-who's-an-amateur-detective
<gamerchick02> looks like a cool game!
<gamerchick02> ok, time for more Grantchester and then bed. getting up early tomorrow to... i'm not exactly sure. i might make it into work. hah!
<gamerchick02> see everyone tomorrow!
<cmaloney> Laterness
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> oh boy, timeo to shovel the same 2 foot drift AGAIN
<gamerchick02> Thigh high drifts due to plowing!
<gamerchick02> but the good news is that i'm getting plowed.
<gamerchick02> snowplowed. ahem.
<jrwren> gamerchick02: LOL
<gamerchick02> :-D
<gamerchick02> i fell over in a snowdrift!
<jrwren> lol. wind blow you down?
<gamerchick02> no i misjudged a step and caught the edge
<gamerchick02> it was buried in a snowdrift and was going off the steps i'd made earlier when i determined that i couldn't make it into work.
<gamerchick02> so yeah. doing a backup of my computer right now yay
<jrwren> better fall in a drift than fall on the steps. OUCH
<gamerchick02> yeah! i'm not hurt.
<gamerchick02> i changed my pants and i'm dry now
<cmaloney> Yeah, we did our shoveling
<cmaloney> now to wait until spring
<brousch> I need a decent snowblower next year. The damn fools only plow half of our road, and it's the half I don't live on
<brousch> So I get to shovel 10ft of road as well as my driveway
<gamerchick02> ugh i'm sorry to hear that
<gamerchick02> i'll go out after lunch. the Indian/Pakistani guys came out and were like "wut is this?"
<gamerchick02> none have snowshovels or boots or anything.
<gamerchick02> there are a lot of chrysler IT guys from that area of the world in my apartment complex.
<_stink_> phew
<_stink_> just finished
<_stink_> we had 2.5 foot drifts
<_stink_> also, my flights to san fran got cancelled.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Yeah, I'm sure they're not prepared for this
<gamerchick02> aww sorry about that
<gamerchick02> no they are not, cmaloney
<cmaloney> Granted I never thought to have a shovel in the apartment complex
<cmaloney> luckily we had good maint. folks.
<gamerchick02> we do too but nobody (and i mean nobody) leaves in this kind of weather.
<gamerchick02> so they can't plow if everyone's still in their spaces
<cmaloney> Yeah
<gamerchick02> plus i have a lot of Oakland students and they don't drive hardly ever either.
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: s/drive hardly ever either/try to drive over anything that looks flat and pout when it doesn't work/
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> yes
<gamerchick02> good day to fire up musicbrainz and sort the music collection, yeah?
<cmaloney> As good as any
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> that's what i'm doing...
<gamerchick02> might as well be personally productive.
<gamerchick02> car unburied.
<gamerchick02> and i have it clean behind my car so i can get out tomorrow. hopefully there will be more plowing later
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<cmaloney> :)
<gamerchick02> g'day
<rick_h_> watching the super bowl and eating pizza ftw :)
<gamerchick02> nice. i just finished lunch and i'm going to be working on tagging my music
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I won't tell you how it ends
<cmaloney> suffice to say one team beat another team
<cmaloney> apparently they don't do tie games
<rick_h_> I already know
<rick_h_> I'm just hanging out because there's pizza..if you can call it that...and good wifi :)
<gamerchick02> why aren't you catching up on Downton, rick_h_?
<gamerchick02> ;)
<cmaloney> South African Pizza? boggles the mind
<gamerchick02> pizza + wifi = heaven.
<rick_h_> yea, pretty much
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Because he already watched the UK broadcast
<gamerchick02> aww man. lucky duck
<gamerchick02> no PBS cuts in that one
<cmaloney> 10% more UK
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> :)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Don't have to have some rich lady tell you how much she likes PBS
<gamerchick02> so dang true
<cmaloney> bbiab. Lunch.
<gamerchick02> enjoy
<cmaloney> back
<gamerchick02> how was lunch?
<rick_h_> it was a party!
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> rick_h_: you have wine with that pizza and football?
<rick_h_> jrwren: bottle of http://www.journeysend.co.za/winery.html I picked up from the wine festival I went to yesterday
<rick_h_> over 40 wineries in one field to try for $13
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> was a good day yesterday
<jrwren> did you know ahead of time that it was there, or was this a huge lucky find?
<rick_h_> jrwren: Mark S suggested we check it out if we were coming in so I did :)
<rick_h_> it seemed like a decent way to spend a day
<gamerchick02> http://boingboing.net/2014/08/12/remembering-robin-williams-ci.html it's taken me five months to get to reading this.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: South African wine is quite good
<cmaloney> on par with Aussie wine which I like
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Yeah, Robin Williams death hit me pretty hard
<gamerchick02> hit me REALLY hard. like "pow right in the feels"
<cmaloney> Really like the Shiraz but JoDee doesn't care for them
<gamerchick02> usually celebrity deaths don't hit me like that but whoa
<cmaloney> so we generally get Merlots which we both like
<gamerchick02> re wine: i usually drink MI wines...
<gamerchick02> (and i prefer white anyway...)
<cmaloney> Loves me some reds
<cmaloney> though I don't mind the white wines from time to time
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> I like some MI wines as well
<cmaloney> Tend to like more of the sweeter wines up here
<gamerchick02> yeah!
<cmaloney> Though the old addage of "they'll ferment most anything" is true of a lot of MI wine
<cmaloney> Cherry wine in particular
<cmaloney> blech.
<gamerchick02> ew
<brousch> I love Cherry wine
<brousch> Drank a bottle cranberry recently too. Awesome
<brousch> So flavorful
 * brousch sets another Dutch licorice coin on his tongue
<akelling> Strawberry was always my favorite fruit wine.
<brousch> Can't say I've tried it. blueberry is very powerful though
<akelling> mmm Blueberry
<jrwren> barley wine is good
<brousch> The nastiest wine I've had is asparagus
<akelling> Barley wine will mess you up.
<akelling> Cheap wine that you can get in Ohio that is not to bad for fruits. http://www.breitenbachwine.com/
<akelling> I never seen it in MI when I lived there.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, wine festival was a good thing
<brousch> Probably because we have a hundred good wineries already ;)
<akelling> I only seen cherry/apple in MI for fruits.
<akelling> Yeah MI has some great wineries and brewerys. Wish I could get Founders out here.
<brousch> We have some decent blueberry fields on the west side
<brousch> My friend in Charleston, SC has Founders. Surely you do too
<akelling> I have not seen it out here. I am not sure if they distubute past MO.
<akelling> Checked their site no one within 100 miles of my zip has it.
<brousch> wow
<gamerchick02> you can't order it and have it shipped?
<brousch> Shipping alcohol across state borders is not trivial
<gamerchick02> ah.
<akelling> I will just get some next time I am in STL.
<akelling> I have seen Bells a few times but they want 11.99 a 6 pack
<gamerchick02> dang!
<brousch> Seems reasonable
<akelling> Yeah.... I enjoy two hearted but not that much. We have alot of good beers here in Colorado
<brousch> trudat
<rick_h_> woot! I have working trackpoint buttons!
<rick_h_> <3 working for this company, kernel folks to fix me up ftw!
<brousch> trackpoint buttons?
<akelling> IBM laptop?
<rick_h_> yea, on the new laptopst
<rick_h_> went back to thinkpad
<akelling> Nice!
<rick_h_> <3
<rick_h_> but it's a bit too new for crap to 'just work' yet
<akelling> I like my thinkpad's too. What model do you have?
<rick_h_> the 3rd gen x1 carbon
<brousch> I never realized that was a button
<rick_h_> well the trackpoint is back to having buttons vs 'click on the touchpad'
<rick_h_> and the buttons didn't work
<akelling> I have heard good things about those carbon's
<rick_h_> yea, 2800x1400 px touchless display <3
<akelling> damn
<jrwren> depends on the bells. expedition stout is $18 for a 6 pack, and worth every penny
<brousch> touchless. WHAT YEAR IS THIS?
<jrwren> rick_h_: wtf, how did you do that? I need an eMMC fix for my Acer.
<akelling> Yeah that expedition stout is so freaking good. Puts the buzz on too.
<rick_h_> jrwren: jcastro hooked me up with folks from the server team here
<rick_h_> and they took 5min to fix it and then they wanted to check it all out, file a bug, and both are looking at getting one now
<jrwren> rick_h_: oh man! so jelly.
<rick_h_> <3 I want them to get one because then they'll make it all worky worky
<rick_h_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1417209
<jrwren> rick_h_: you've convinced me to bring my acer to next sprint.
<rick_h_> jrwren: definitely!
<cmaloney> akelling: I think that's the going rate
<cmaloney> Bells beer went up in price
<cmaloney> Porter is 10.49 at Meijer
<cmaloney> Though it goes on special from time to time
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's awesome.
<akelling> O really cmaloney. Was 8.99 or 9.99 for a 6 pack in July. But if it went up in price then I dont feel as bad about it.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it got expensive in the fall
<cmaloney> Like "Have to think about this one" expensive
<akelling> gotcha
<jrwren> funny how that $1 makes a difference, isn't it?
<akelling> well its a 3 dollar diffrence to me.
<cmaloney> It's a couple of bucks, but yeah
<cmaloney> becomes a $10 six pack instead of a 8.99 six pack. :)
<jrwren> becomes a shorts or other brewery six pack instead of a bells six pack :p
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4061720/trouble-getting-pylint-to-find-inherited-methods-in-pylons-sa-models
<cmaloney> Ran into this one online. :)
 * cmaloney is listening to Gojira - Oroborus
 * cmaloney is listening to Gojira - Vacuity
<cmaloney> I swear this song is such a anger releaser
<greg-g> most things you listen to are :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-03
<cmaloney> https://peculate.bandcamp.com/track/this-sick-beat
<cmaloney> In January 2015, Taylor Swift trademarked the phrase "This Sick Beat"â¢.
<cmaloney> Trademarks are a direct attack on one of the most fundamental and inalienable rights of all: our freedom of speech.
<cmaloney> The song is hilarious
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I'm always hiding on the interwebs
<cmaloney> Heh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: still up? What time is it there?
<cmaloney> 1am
<cmaloney> Just finished OMC episode 111 and packaged some stuff to send out tomrorrow
<cmaloney> beat
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea man, it's tomorrow go to bed :)
<cmaloney> Yes, dad
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> See you in the afternoon. :)
<rick_h_> see ya
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> (Yes, I know there's only 6 more minutes. :) )
<greg-g> plus 3 hours
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<cmaloney> Howdy
<DrDaemonEye> Hi cmaloney and ColonelPanic001
<ColonelPanic001> hi
 * cmaloney is listening to Aliceffekt - A Stone Carving For An Angel(Live)
<DrDaemonEye> Oh nice cmaloney :)
<ColonelPanic001> sig:ar:tyr here
 * DrDaemonEye is listening to Infected Mushroom
<cmaloney> Probably going to change it up here in a bit.
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: nice. :)
<DrDaemonEye> :)  Good way to start the afternoon
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.last.fm/user/unforgiven24 fwiw
 * cmaloney is now listening to sig:ar:tyr
<cmaloney> https://sigartyr.bandcamp.com/
<brousch> They should name a band "Your Mother Scream"
<DrDaemonEye> lol
<cmaloney> brousch: There probably is one
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: if you're not familiar already, "Godsaga" is a good album. "Blood of the North" is a fantastic song
<cmaloney> Listening to that now
<ColonelPanic001> one of my favorite intros to a song out there
<cmaloney> Added to my (growing) wish lists
<brousch> I went to the bandcamp page but I cannot read any of the words. It is very dark grey on black
<ColonelPanic001> \o
 * cmaloney is listening to SIG:AR:TYR - Nights All Nine
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Now playing via Squeezebox
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
 * DrDaemonEye is now listening to Kraftwerk
<cmaloney> DrDaemonEye: Did you know Karl Bartos has two solo albums?
<cmaloney> I just found this out recently.
<DrDaemonEye> cmaloney: I do now.  :)
<brousch> \m/
<cmaloney> They are quite good
<DrDaemonEye> I'll have to look for them when I get home
<cmaloney> Communication and Off the Record
<cmaloney> Off the Record is a little easier to find
<DrDaemonEye> cool.  :)
<ColonelPanic001> did you know that the woman that started planned parenthood was a huge supporter of eugenics and a big part of her push for contraception availability?
<cmaloney> Communication is harder to find but highly recommended
 * ColonelPanic001 contributes to the trivia exchange
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Nice.
<ColonelPanic001> she wasn't exactly pushing it for rich white people.
<DrDaemonEye> When I was in Germany with my dad and uncle, we'd play Kraftwerk's Autobahn every time we got onto the autobahn.
<cmaloney> I'm sure she wasn't
<ColonelPanic001> thought that was an interesting part of a book I read about eugenics in the US
<DrDaemonEye> ColonelPanic001: I just realized you have been in the #linuxjournal channel... How long have you been here?
<ColonelPanic001> months/years? not sure
<ColonelPanic001> I don't talk much.
<DrDaemonEye> :O
<ColonelPanic001> I just wake up now and then, talk about metal, eugenics, or KDE, and then go back to sleep.
<DrDaemonEye> You in michigan as well?
<cmaloney> He might as well be in Ohio. :)
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<cmaloney> "Down River". ;)
<ColonelPanic001> DrDaemonEye: yeah, Downriver (southern Wayne County)
<ColonelPanic001> down here away from the rich folks area
<DrDaemonEye> Ah okay.  A2 here
<ColonelPanic001> we only got computers in 2010
<cmaloney> Yeah, y'all are patched into the one ethernet jack in town
 * DrDaemonEye thinks ColonelPanic001 could compute before computers came
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: there's a dsl line at city hall with one really big 10mbps hub
 * DrDaemonEye offers ColonelPanic001 a private 1GB fiber connection
 * ColonelPanic001 moves the hub to his house
<DrDaemonEye> hehe
<DrDaemonEye> Does anyone here make it to the 2600 meetup in Ann Arbor?
<cmaloney> Haven't been there. Didn't know one existed
<DrDaemonEye> Yep.  First Friday of every month at 7:00 PM at the Starbucks on South University (or that coffee shop next to Pinball Petes).
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: did you have fun?
<DrDaemonEye> jrwren: hmm?
<jrwren> DrDaemonEye: on the autobahn
<DrDaemonEye> Oh, yes.  It is always fun on the autobahn.
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Howdy
<cmaloney> I <3 getting a call on my Google Voice where my name is clearly stated "Hello, you have reached the voicemail of Craig Maloney. After the tone please record your message" and the message left is for someone completely different.
<MaskedDriver> cmaloney: or a call to my work phone where I say, "This is Brian Freytag at {Company}" And they proceed to yell at Jimmy at {CompanyB}
<cmaloney> MaskedDriver: Yeah, those are fun
<rick_h_> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-04
<Experiment-626> I have a problem with my dual screen. I have a radeon graphics card using the additional drivers option. When I plug in my screen, it looks like the screens are not separating and bleeding into each other.
<Experiment-626> has anyone seen this before?
<Experiment-626> I tried to use a different resolutioned, VGA monitor on my laptop. It looks like it is not separating the screen and they are flickering/bleeding into each other. when I remove the dsub cable, everything goes back to normal. Can any one help me fix my problem?
<cmaloney> Experiment-626: Hello
<cmaloney> You might want to check on askubuntu.com with the driver version number
<cmaloney> unfortunately I moved to a NVidia card a while ago because I didn't have good luck withthe Radeon drivers
<Experiment-626> cmaloney: Thanks. I hope it is something easy.
<cmaloney> Likely a differnt driver version
<cmaloney> or perhaps the OSS driver might do the trick
<cmaloney> night!
<cmaloney> https://luxinframundisproductions.bandcamp.com/album/farseeing-the-paranormal-abysm
<cmaloney> https://www.retrolayer.com/posts/zx-spectrum-is-being-revived
<cmaloney> This excites me
<cmaloney> I'd love to get my hands on a ZX Spectrum some day.
<cmaloney> Also: in celebration of the Groundhog seeing his shadow we'll be having CHC tonight at 8pm
<cmaloney> had the Groundhog not seen his shadow we would be having CHC tonight at 8pm
<devinheitmueller> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINCLAIR-ZX-SPECTRUM-48K-COMPUTER-BOXED-TESTED-AND-WORKING-NEW-KEYBOARD-MEMBRANE-/301504167067?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item46330c7c9b
<cmaloney> That's how highly we think of the groundhog. :)
<cmaloney> devinheitmueller: Yeah, I'm not payig 35Pounds to have one shipped to me. :)
<devinheitmueller> Life is full of choices.  :-)
<cmaloney> They're rarer over here but they're C64-common in the UK
<cmaloney> devinheitmueller: Yeah, I know.
<cmaloney> I hope they show up like the ZX-81s I have: Someone cleaning out their house. :)
<cmaloney> Also: deleted my eBay account. :(
<devinheitmueller> I sometimes miss my CoCo2
<cmaloney> I still have my Atari 800 / 800XL
<cmaloney> Those were my teething computers
<cmaloney> I managed to destroy the 400, much to my father's complete chagrin
<devinheitmueller> My NYC apartment has no space to store such things.
<cmaloney> devinheitmueller: Yeah, I know the feeling
<cmaloney> these are at my parents place
<devinheitmueller> Ah
<cmaloney> and they're getting itchy to not have the Craig Maloney memorial computer museum much longer
<cmaloney> So when the weather breaks some of these are getting "emulated"
<jrwren> cmaloney: i had a garage sale zx spectrum back in 87 or so.
<cmaloney> aka: donated to the A2 computer game museum
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's awesome
<devinheitmueller> Nice.
<jrwren> the atari 800xl was WAY more powerful and fun to write BASIC on
<jrwren> the BASIC on the zx was pretty lame.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not looking for it as a work machine
<cmaloney> Though JoDee works with a guy that wrote a paper for college and did his calculations using a ZX with basic programs
<cmaloney> Not sure if ZX80 or 81
<cmaloney> Regardless, he has even more of my respect.
<cmaloney> Atari Basic was awesome
<cmaloney> Had arrays that were closer to C than Microsoft Basic
<cmaloney> which meant you had "fun" converting strings from MS Basic to Atari Basic
<cmaloney> Not impossible, but they worked way differently.
<jrwren> dude, 8 bit calculations... that is NOT a good idea.
<jrwren> it doesnt 'do floating point, does it?
<cmaloney> jrwren: It was the tool he had
<jrwren> what year was it?
<cmaloney> I'll have to ask him next time I see him
<jrwren> I'm pretty sure the BASIC on it didn't have a bignum implementation.
<jrwren> but I could be wrong.
<cmaloney> yeah, I'm pretty sure the ZX series had the most basic of floating point
<jrwren> I mean, "did his calculation" - maybe he wrote his own bignum and or float and or fixed point impl, which means, that is pretty sweet.
<jrwren> cmaloney: really?  in hardware or in software? either way, I highly doubt it.
<jrwren> 1 X=255
<jrwren> 2 X=X+1
<jrwren> 3 PRINT X
<jrwren> RUN
<jrwren> 0
<cmaloney> I don't have a ZX81 emulator to check that
<cmaloney> but most BASIC could handle larger than 255
<jrwren> yeah, must have been in software.
<cmaloney> I remember the Atari 8bit started putting things into scientific notation at one point
<jrwren> O_O i don't remember that.
<cmaloney> http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210068-whats-the-highest-number-atari-basic-can-count-to/
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's pretty amazing what they shoved into those machines
<jrwren> oh yeah, I kinda remember big numbers.
<cmaloney> I'm sure whatever he did wasn't fast by any stretch
<jrwren> no, very slow
<cmaloney> but this dude is both patient and persistent
<cmaloney> and infinitely curious
<jrwren> wikipedia says all the math in atari basic was using those floating routines.
<jrwren> so very slow.
<cmaloney> He wrote this paper because he got interested in the subject (subject escapes me) and went out and bought the computer to do the calculations
<jrwren> and it sounds like as long as the numbers were less than 1billion, it is accurate.
<cmaloney> Yeah, not sure what calc he was doing
<PainBank_> where is CHC being held now?
<cmaloney> Bean and Leaf in Royal Oak
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/communities/105711849406316277146
<cmaloney> PainBank_: ^^
<brousch> What kind of leaves? Is that a cannabis shop?
<jrwren> TEA LEAVES!!!
<brousch> Are you some kind of dope head?
<cmaloney> Holy shit
 * cmaloney is listening to Satyrasis - Circumstances
<cmaloney> jcastro: ^^
<jrwren> evarlast is currently listening to Letterman, by Old Man Markley
<cmaloney> https://satyrasis.bandcamp.com/ <- Track 7
<cmaloney> Surprise Rush
<greg-g> Old Man Markley!
<greg-g> saw them in concert a few months back, they opened for Rev Horton Heat
<greg-g> The Rev is LOUD
<jrwren> greg-g: man, the rev is still touring!
<jhansonxi> Check this out: https://www.humblebundle.com/books
<jhansonxi> I little OT but I couldn't resist
<cmaloney> jhansonxi: Yeah, lots of good titles on there for kids.
<jhansonxi> The electronics, Ruby, Python, and JavaScript books I thought would be of interest
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-05
<cmaloney> Morning
<jrwren> mornin
<cmaloney> Man, surprise covers abound
 * cmaloney is listening to Deconbrio - Guilty
<cmaloney> cover of Gravity Kills - Guilty
<cmaloney> I like.
<jrwren> rather it be a klute cover :p
<cmaloney> Not familiar
<jrwren> leather strip side project
<jrwren> very aggro
<cmaloney> Ah
<cmaloney> laeeaeaeaaeeeaeeeather strip?
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> weeee
<greg-g> https://twitter.com/Wikimedia/status/563388375898411008
<greg-g> "All Wikimedia sites are experiencing issues due to a network problem. We'll be back up shortly!"
<cmaloney> greg-g: Woo woo
<brousch> greg-g: Fix it!
<greg-g> luckily, I don't have to
<greg-g> poweroutage to an important switch
<cmaloney> Lovely
<greg-g> yeah, I feel bad for the DC tech
<cmaloney> I'm sure his death will be swift.
<cmaloney> Though not honorable
<jrwren> single switch?
<jrwren> that is a shit spof design.
<jrwren> bridging is your friend FFS! :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: Likely one switch with bad failover.
<greg-g> yeah, I don't know all the details, but it sounds like it was a perfect shitty accidental storm
<cmaloney> yeah, there's a lot of instances where if one component fails then things are fine, but if one component disappears (or conversely doesn't disappear enough) then shit doesn't work
<cmaloney> "Hi, I know this is weird and all but I just powered up and I have no idea what a route is. Pleased to meet me"
<greg-g> the best part is, it looks like our logging system kept us from coming back up in a timely manner, we had to disable logging for a $timespan
<cmaloney> "Hi other router. Apparently you're up, so here's all the traffic. Derp derp"
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Those are the worst
<cmaloney> When your tracking is actively fucking you.
<greg-g> yeah, which we also just beefed up a bit (and starting logging a lot more stuff by default)
<greg-g> We've indeed had a total site outage for roughly 30 minutes. We're still
<greg-g> collecting all data, but we've tracked down the cause to multiple cascading
<greg-g> issues including loss of power to a critical SPOF network switch and HHVM
<greg-g> MediaWiki application servers getting blocked due to multiple unoptimal
<greg-g> timeout settings. We'll post a full incident report soon, and work to
<greg-g> correct the underlying issues as soon as possible.
<brousch> hmmmm
<brousch> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/oz47PtCo
<brousch> Ah, it's docker.io, not docker
<greg-g> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation/20150205-SiteOutage
<rick_h_> evening
<cmaloney> Hello from OCC
<rick_h_> party!
<cmaloney> W00t
 * DrDaemonEye waves at cmaloney
<cmaloney> Howdy
<DrDaemonEye> how goes?
<cmaloney> Writing
<DrDaemonEye> fun times
<cmaloney> Yeah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-06
<brousch> Error 503 Backend is unhealthy https://www.python.org/
<brousch> Is Python died?!
<cmaloney> Yep, no more python
<mthx|laptop_> brousch: Works for me.
<brousch> ah, it's back
<cmaloney> I love my customers... I love my customers...
<cmaloney> Attachment: View Month Screenshot.docx (123 KB)
<brousch> What? they didn't zip it for you?!
<cmaloney> It's a screenshot. In a .docx file
<brousch> I was trying to go one level of stupid farther
<cmaloney> It doesn't need any help, tx. :)
<cmaloney> Though I can completely understand why they do it
<cmaloney> print screen : creates screen in copy / paste buffer
<cmaloney> Word: nice and easy copy / paste recipient
<cmaloney> Paint: An ugly relic that nobody uses
<cmaloney> If Paint were something that didn't look like a dog's breakfast and didn't require thought on saving images it might be used more for screenshots
<cmaloney> Oh God, I opened paint under Windows 7
<cmaloney> They have succeeded in making Paint worse.
<brousch> Paint is not as ugly in win7
<brousch> It has a ribbon!
<cmaloney> I fucking hate ribbon interfaces
<brousch> Hm, they have a tool in Windows now: snipping
<brousch> Not bad, except you have to search for it
<cmaloney> http://www.theonion.com/articles/health-experts-recommend-standing-up-at-desk-leavi,37957/
<mthx|laptop> cmaloney: Thats priceless.
<mthx|laptop> Think I might have to send that to my Fiancee', who happens to work at Mayo Clinic in Rochester :)
<jrwren> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/the-first-ubuntu-phone-will-finally-go-on-sale-next-week/
<cmaloney> WE KNOW. :)
<brousch> The Aquaris E4.5 Ubuntu Edition has a 4.5-inch 960x540 display
<brousch> weak
<brousch> jrwren: Will Shuttleworth make you all switch?
<jrwren> brousch: surely not.
<jrwren> brousch: although, I would if I could.
<brousch> Surely you have connections who could get one for you
<jrwren> /I/ don't.
<jrwren> i don't know anyone.
<brousch> Email popey
<jrwren> who?
<cmaloney> Alan Pope
<brousch> https://twitter.com/popey
<brousch> It's interesting how large and sprawling Canonical has become
<brousch> It's almost a mini-google now
<jrwren> I don't know him.
<jrwren> google is what? 80,000 people?   canonical is 600.
<brousch> See, mini
<cmaloney> That's an order of magnitude mini
<jrwren> its a real bummer development on stuff like this stopped: http://www.virtualgl.org/About/TigerVNC
<cmaloney> Yeah, unfortunately I think RDP kicked VNC's ass
<jrwren> nevermind... i see in teh SVN, its actively developed.
<jrwren> cmaloney: yet the linux story tehre is pretty poor, for no good reason, IMO
<jrwren> or maybe the reason is that there is no money in it.
<cmaloney> yeah, sadly I'm pretty entrenched in RDP
<cmaloney> VirtualBox
<akelling> wish spice could be more like RDP
<jrwren> is spice used outside of server config and openstack?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-07
<jrwren> http://kalamazoox.org is shaping up nicely this year. I highly recommend all to attend.
<cmaloney> Evening
<ADAG10> Evenin', cmaloney
<cmaloney> Hey ADAG10
<ADAG10> What's up?
<cmaloney> Not a lot. Just chilling
<cmaloney> Putting together music for Open Metalcast on Metal Injection radio
<ADAG10> Sounds kick-ass.
<cmaloney> tx
<jrwren> built turbovnc, no GL support. :(
<jrwren> built vgl to use with turbovnc, looks promising, but it talks to a local running Xgl server, which I don't currently have, hehe
<jrwren> ha, hahaha, I just assumed I had 3d hardware in my home server, but I don't. lolz, teh VGA port on it is driven by a 20 yr old PCI Trident 9660.
<jrwren> and here I am trying to pass GL calls through to something, or anything.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> And aftrnoon
<DrDaemonEye> afternoon cmaloney
<derekv> https://waytools.com/products/textblade/1/trailer
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-02-08
<tony-smlr> SMLR E144 is Live Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spGNvTAGmd0 Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all. :)
<cmaloney> brousch: Thank you for calling me on my stupidity in our Go game. :)
<brousch> I wasn't sure what to make of that move
<cmaloney> brousch: Just make sure to end the game quickly so I can get on to losing the rest of my 1,000 games. :)
<rick_h_> evening from chilly MI wonderland
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-08
<cmaloney> ++
<waldo323> Good evening
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> We'll be starting at 21:0
<cmaloney> 21:00 ET
<Scary_Guy> ?
<cmaloney> Evening!
<Scary_Guy> Greetings
<cmaloney> WElcome to the Ubuntu Michigan Monthly MEeting
<cmaloney> I'm sure there are some of you that are watching something on TV righ tnow but we're still meeting.
<cmaloney> :)
<Scary_Guy> Sportsball?  Never touch the stuff :(
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/1033/detail/
<cmaloney> Here's the agenda of items that We'll cover
<cmaloney> First off: Pengiucon
<cmaloney> Last I heard we're accepted as a talk but there's no concrete date / time
<cmaloney> I've asked for a Friday evening, but we've had it on a Saturday (last year)
<cmaloney> (This is the ubuntu 16.04 release party at Penguicon)
<cmaloney> I put in for a conference pack for the release party. Hopefully I'll hear more about whether we'll have one as the event comes closer.
<cmaloney> Apparently jrwren is hosting something at Kalamazoo X since he's opted not to be at Pengicon that weekend. ;)
<cmaloney> (I'm kidding)
<cmaloney> That said if anyone wants to have another release party that isn't at Penguicon please feel free to organize it and let me know so I can put it on our events page.
<cmaloney> Any questions?
<waldo323> Will it be in the bar/restaurant area again?
<cmaloney> That's the plan
<cmaloney> I'll know more as we get closer to the event
<waldo323> The programming staff is a little different this year
<cmaloney> how so?
<waldo323> Janet stepped down from head of programming afaik
<cmaloney> Oh, that's no fun
<cmaloney> Hopefully it'll be sorted though
<cmaloney> Anything else?
<cmaloney> OK, moving on
<cmaloney> The next online summit is in May
<cmaloney> The next Ubuntu Online Summit is going to be from 3rd - 5th May 2016, which is going to two weeks after 16.04 release.
<cmaloney> So be on the look out for that, and hopefully you can participate in the summit.
<waldo323> Pcon: Someone else stepped in as she stepped down
<cmaloney> Ah, cool
<cmaloney> That's all I have at the moment. Anyone have anything else they'd like to bring up?
<waldo323> Nope not I.
<_stink_> SPORTSBALL
<_stink_> CHAMPIONSHIP
<_stink_> :P
<_stink_> is this where you call the sergeant-at-arms?
<cmaloney> ?
<_stink_> i interrupted your meeting
<_stink_> i am out of order
<cmaloney> Oh, is that what we're calling it? :)
<_stink_> haha
<cmaloney> I was just happy someone else was participating. :)
<cmaloney> http://www.metalinjection.net/video/watch-rushs-neil-peart-tools-danny-carey-jam-with-south-parks-matt-stone
<Scary_Guy> So is the meeting still going on then?  I fell asleep and wow that was short :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> No, I think we're good. :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<Scary_Guy> greetings
<cmaloney> howdy.
<mrgoodcat> hi
<Scary_Guy>  greetings
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-09
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> party
<Zimdale> Morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> i found the best website on the internet
<mrgoodcat> http://www.lingscars.com/ < don't click if flashing banners, 90's web, or possible viruses bother you
<Zimdale> beautiful
<wolfger> mrgoodcat: you have a strange idea of "best"
<Zimdale> Y'all just need to do more LSD wolfger
<wolfger> I think that website counts as LSD
<wolfger> and I definitely need to do less of that
<greg-g> it was taking longer than 4 seconds to load in my Iceweasel, so I closed it :)
<wolfger> LOL. I forgot Iceweasel existed. You really use that?
<greg-g> why not? Fx is harder to install on Debian and Iceweasel is just as good or better :)
<wolfger> <shrug> No reason not to use it.  I just never saw any reason *to* use it, either. I'm a Chromium fan these days though
<greg-g> chromium is my "I don't use this for anything real, lemme check if this link works there real quick" browser :)
<greg-g> ie: what epiphany used to be
<cmaloney> I'm going to have to replace my home machine's install with 14.04 in order to keep using Chrome
<hpucks> what are you running currently if 14.04 is an upgrade cmaloney?
<greg-g> the last great LTS, Lucid (10.04)
<cmaloney> 12.04
<cmaloney> Unfortunately I have a habit of making one machine my "monolith" machine
<cmaloney> so my music is all stored on there, my IRC session is on there.
<cmaloney> mail, productivity, gaming,
<cmaloney> etc.
<hpucks> Yeah, makes upgrading tough when everything just works as you want it anyhow.
<cmaloney> Hah, listening to Kerbie Hancock's Sound-System for the first time
<cmaloney> he samples Yes in Metal Beat.
<mrgoodcat> i'm the opposite. i kill and reinstall machines so often that i've become almost phobic of storing anything locally
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, I want to get to that point at some point
<cmaloney> but $$
<mrgoodcat> its not that expensive
<mrgoodcat> i just gave up my media collection entirely
<hpucks> mrgoodcat: me too.  I have everything in cloud services.  I just reinstall the clients or third party clients and let it all redownload.
<mrgoodcat> netflix/hulu/gmusic/hbonow is all my media now
<cmaloney> See, that's no fun
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<mrgoodcat> makes no difference to me
<cmaloney> /dev/sdb1      1922858352 1253046768 572135984  69% /mnt/music
<mrgoodcat> wish you were here looks the same on google play as it did on my local machine
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: you can upload your music collection to google play music
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Not and keep it lossless. ;)
<mrgoodcat> in order to backfill what their catalog is missing
<mrgoodcat> oh lossless
<mrgoodcat> that's what vinyl is for
<mrgoodcat> music i care about
<hpucks> Yeah, gmusic is far from lossless.
<mrgoodcat> who cares?
<cmaloney> 4385 albums with 45579 songs by 4183 artists.
<mrgoodcat> sounds fine on my shitty headphones
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It's a compromise I'm not willing to take
<hpucks> I generally don't care though.  I don't have a audiophile level ear.
<mrgoodcat> me either
<hpucks> But if lossless is what you're looking for you will be disappointed.
<mrgoodcat> the high quality setting is fine for me
<hpucks> Yup, me too.
<mrgoodcat> google play high quality is 320kbps mp3
<cmaloney> Problem is I have a lot of music procured through Bandcamp that I use for the show
<cmaloney> so I need to have it lossless for as long as I can before re-compressing it
<mrgoodcat> sounds like you need a freenas
<cmaloney> I compress for work as well via the squeezebox but I control those settings.
<cmaloney> yeah that's an option
<cmaloney> BTW: MUG Meeting tonight
<cmaloney> http://mug.org
<cmaloney> be there and potentially win books
<hpucks> We had a couple of USB hard drives connected to our router, until the cat knocked them off the shelf this weekend.
<Zimdale> What do you do at said mug meeting?
<cmaloney> We have a speaker.
<cmaloney> And we sometimes get into other topics
<cmaloney> It's free to attend
<Zimdale> What's the speach about this week?
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/user/MichiganUsrGroup/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=dd
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/
<cmaloney> What's New in HIgh Performance Computing
<hpucks> One of these days I'm going to make it to a mug meeting.  Today is not that day unfortunately.
<cmaloney> booo
<mrgoodcat> i went to one once
<mrgoodcat> its in the worst trafficked area in detroit during the heaviest traffic part of the day
<cmaloney> Now now
<cmaloney> it's not that bad. :)
<hpucks> off of 12 Mile isn't it?
<mrgoodcat> yea. farmington
<Zimdale> If it was in detroit, that would be great
<Zimdale> farmington should be pretty easy to make it to.
<hpucks> No, not too bad from where I'm at.
<Zimdale> in fact, I kind of pass it on my way home sometimes
<hpucks> you take 696?
<Zimdale> yussir
<Zimdale> sometimes if it's bad I get off at orchard lake and take 12 mile home
<cmaloney> http://www.storiesofapple.net/screw-bjarne.html
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/b/109767935477156086705/events/co1fktd5oq016aregkpgp2mr6f0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-10
<Scary_Guy> My friend Kylo_Wen 's company is looking for a Java / .net dev if anyone is looking
<Zimdale> Recruiting devs is getting cut throat
<cmaloney> yeah, no kidding
<Zimdale> Morning
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> morning and all that.
<Scary_Guy> hi
<cmaloney> Howdy
<Scary_Guy> how was the meeting?  I was tired and didn't want to drive in crap again
<cmaloney> It was pretty good. Lots to chew on about high performance computing
<Zimdale> When's the next one?
<cmaloney> March 8th
<Zimdale> I'll try to make it to that one
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm%2Fevent%2Finfo&reset=1&id=52
<Zimdale> ended up staying late working yesterday and missed it
<cmaloney> Bummer.
<cmaloney> I know about the staying late at work thing though. :(
<Zimdale> too much docker containers!
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-11
<cmaloney> blah
<rick_h___> Blah?
<greg-g> yup
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-12
<rick_h___> Wheeee
<cmaloney> rick_h___: http://www.thinkworldshop.com.cn/pm/51077.html?twsrm2
<cmaloney> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/tex-yoda <- Looks like it might be something like this keyboard.
<rick_h___> Ooh
<cmaloney> Blame popey.
<rick_h__> yea, saw him posting that
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I think you've rubbed off on me
<cmaloney> I'm using tmux like a tiling window manager when developing
<cmaloney> Stll holding out on windowed desktop environments, but every time I fire up tmux and go full screen I think "dammit"
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> yea, at some point you realize it just starts to make sense
<cmaloney> For me it's more of a focus thing
<cmaloney> so I don't have to hunt and peck for things
<rick_h__> yea
<mrgoodcat> tmux basically is my window manager during the work day
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: ++
<cmaloney> http://9to5mac.com/2016/02/11/date-time-bug-bricks-iphone-forever-fix/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-13
<rick_h__> jcastro: you're right, needed a tom bihn back.
<rick_h__> jcastro: and <3 fell to second page but had a good run on HN today
<jcastro> yeah notbad obama
<rick_h__> jcastro: ok traffic to your blog?
<jcastro> let me check
<jcastro> rick_h__: ~3300 uniques
<rick_h__> jcastro: nice, good stuff.
<jcastro> rick_h__: let's talk more serious business
<jcastro> like say .... thinkpad laptops
<rick_h__> jcastro: yea, say an x1?
 * jcastro nods
<rick_h__> jcastro: k, you want the dock thingy too?
<jcastro> they make dock thingies for X1s?
<rick_h__> jcastro: http://amzn.com/B00H4PID8A
<rick_h__> jcastro: yea, I used that on my walking desk before I replaced it with a nuc
<rick_h__> jcastro: but yea, let me know if/when and we'll swap up $ for compute power
<jcastro> I don't think I need the dock, I just built a new workstation with 3 heads
<jcastro> this is mostly for travel
<rick_h__> k
<jcastro> what model/specs is it?
<rick_h__> can you load https://ovp.lenovo.com/lenovo-ovp/public/showDetail!showPublicOrderDetail.action?orderNumber=4244185424&email=rharding@mitechie.com
<rick_h__> ?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> what screen is it?
<rick_h__> jcastro: 14.0" WQHD (2560 x 1440)
<cmaloney> Thinking about a System76 laptop for JoDee
<cmaloney> thoughts?
<cmaloney> Specifically the Oryx
<rick_h__> i wouln't
<rick_h__> i don't yhink they'rr solod enough
<widox> rick_h__: not a fan of the X1s?
<rick_h__> widox: no i love it, but downsized due to frequent travel
<widox> rick_h__: ah. go back to the 12.5" screen?
<rick_h___> Went with a surface pro 3
<rick_h___> Yea about 12"
<gamerchick02> you... bought a surface?
<gamerchick02> *GASP*
<rick_h___> Yea nice little thing
<_stink_> Scalia died, in case anyone didn't see.
<rick_h___> Yea saw that. Will be interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-02-14
<cmaloney> Wow
<cmaloney> rick_h___: So not a fan of the System76s then?
<rick_h___> No, their build quality and parts are more in line with cheaper machines and not up to thinkpads or even like the delk xps imo
<cmaloney> So the Dell XPS is a better machine?
<cmaloney> I'll be damned if I'm getting a lenovo after their bios stint
<cmaloney> And the XPS13 is not even close to what I can get on the System76 as far as memory, disk, or video card.
<rick_h___> Yes the xps13 is better in my experience
<cmaloney> How about for gaming? :)
<cmaloney> http://laptoping.com/gpus/product/intel-hd-5500-graphics-reviews-and-specs/
<cmaloney> Blergh, the video card is terrible.
<rick_h___> Heh I can't speak to that
<cmaloney> ALthough if I get a System76 I'm damn well getting the 3 year warranty.
<gamerchick02> i did see
<jcastro> I would easily get the X1 over the dell, it's not even close
<jcastro> rick_h___: ok, how much? I AM IN.
<rick_h___> jcastro: see pm
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> I made eggs for JoDee's birthday today
<cmaloney> scared the bejeesus out of her
<cmaloney> also reminded myself why I don't eat eggs - stomach is not particularly happy with me
<jrwren> o-O?
<jrwren> eggs are such a simple food, how oculd it cause stomach issues?
<rick_h___> Fried eggs?
<rick_h___> Grease and such maybe
<jrwren> but... its just a little butter. surely you butter your toast?
<cmaloney> jrwren: Something about them give me gas
<cmaloney> not sure if allergy or what-not
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2016/02/14/curious-george-is-not-a-monkey/
<jrwren> must be the sulfer, kinda like onions
<_stink_> good way to make friends
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah, I'm close to your namesake
<_stink_> o/
<_stink_> lentils are my trigger
<cmaloney> <3 lentils
<cmaloney> But yeah, middle-eastern food is the last stop on the tour, not the first
<cmaloney> or we go to Pet Smart where nobody can tell
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> mmm... middle eastern food
<gamerchick02> happy birthday JoDee!
<gamerchick02> sorry i'm a bit late. hah
<gamerchick02> cmaloney jrwren +1 to middle eastern food
<jcastro> deadpool was awesome, everyone go see it
<gamerchick02> awesome. i'll keep that in mind. wait, valentine's day deadpool? good day as any, i guess. :)
<jrwren> so your date can crush on ryan reynolds
<gamerchick02> everyone crushes on Ryan Reynolds, it's a proven fact.
<jrwren> 'cept Blade Trinity, there was only Parker Posey
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Thanks
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's what I've heard re: Deadpool
<gamerchick02> you're welcome
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-06
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.atchoo.bacommunity
<brousch__> wtf
<brousch__> cmaloney: Interview done?
<cmaloney> brousch__: Yeah, I flew back on Saturday.
<cmaloney> Interview went well. We'll see. :)
<brousch__> Who was it with? Some robotics thing?
<cmaloney> Open Source Robotics Foundation / Corporation
<brousch__> Ah, yes, ROS. That would be a fun job! You should work out of a makerspace if you get it
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm hoping it'll pan out but I won't be surprised if they pass on me
<cmaloney> but it was genuinely one of the most fun interviews I've done
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-07
<rick_h> cmaloney: <3 good to hear it went well.
<cmaloney> rick_h: Thank you. :)
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> cmaloney: So what is the verdict of your CA trip?
<rick_h> was it as cool as it seemed from the outside once you got there cmaloney ?
<cmaloney> rick_h: Um... I twas wet
<cmaloney> it was
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> well /me sends all kinds of good luck wishes your way for it
<cmaloney> and the traffic was as horrible in a suburban area
<cmaloney> I'd hate to see it in LA or San Fran
<rick_h> yea, it's not fun
 * rick_h could never live out there
<cmaloney> I didn't see the Googleplex from where I was either. I thought it was like the eye of sauron or something
<cmaloney> The sashimi out there was really good
<cmaloney> WEnt to Pacific Catch and had poke
<rick_h> yea, always love to get some sushi while out on the coast
<rick_h> nice
<cmaloney> when we were driving to Pacific Catch we went past a Chili's and for a moment I thought they were taking me to Chili's
<cmaloney> not that it would have been bad, but we have three of them within a 30 minut edrive
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> I haven't stepped foot in a chili's in at least 15yrs.
<jrwren> I don't know why. It seems a reasonable alternative to applebees. :)
<rick_h> yea, longhorn > chilis > applebees > wendys > McD
<cmaloney> jrwren: depending on the location a chilis can beat applebees any day of the week
<cmaloney> especially if you're just getting the tortilla-strip-chicken-thing
<jrwren> is it? I'll remember this the next time my options are so limited.
<jrwren> They were limited a few weeks ago in columbus and I ended up at applebees. it wasn't that bad.
<cmaloney> We haven't been at Applebees in a long time. Last time we were in there was when it was within walking distance in Belleville
<cmaloney> But then they opened up an O'Charley's (if I'm remembering the name correctly) and that was the end of Applebees for us
<rick_h> yea, gave up on applebees like you did on chilis evidently
<cmaloney> but it depends on the locations. There's a Chili's by us that we drive past to get to the one in Rochester
<cmaloney> There's a Logans by us that goes up and down in quality as well. SOm times it's as good as Longhorn and other days where it's below Texas Roadhouse.
<jrwren> oh, we had LONG given up on applebees, but... when the only ohter thing is mcdonalds... we give it a shot.
<jrwren> I used to love Logans... I was young and foolish :) Not that its bad, its just... I liked it far beyond what it deserved.
<cmaloney> jrwren: exactly
<cmaloney> when you'r idea of steak is the chopped steak at Ponderosa then Logans is a step up
<cmaloney> s/you'r/your/
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> That's where I learned the trick of ordering medium rare so it would at least have some pink in the middle
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> definitely have moved up tastes over time
<cmaloney> and then when JoDee and I were on a date at Outback I (apologetically) had to send the sirloin back because it was too rare for me.
<rick_h> I used to love Olive Garden as a "nice night out"
<Zimdale> "too rare"?
<rick_h> now it's basically italian themed applebees
<cmaloney> We just went to Olive Garden. They've stepped p their game
<rick_h> have they? it went bad for a while
<cmaloney> Yeah, they were pretty terrible for a while
<jrwren> i went ot olive garden a couple yrs ago with the kid. tomato sauce isn't supposed to be that color. i don't know what they are server.
<jrwren> *serving
<rick_h> yea, the bread wasn't any good, the salad was slop, I cut it out of the approved dining list a while ago
<cmaloney> I had cappelini pomodoro from Olive Garden a while back that was literally cafeteria spaghetti with some tomatos thrown on it
<cmaloney> But I think they realized that Maggianos and Carabbas have literally eaten their lunch
<cmaloney> so I'd put it back in rotation, but a probationary one
<cmaloney> the salad is still a head of lettuce drowned in dressing  with some cabbage thrown in for color.
<jrwren> but... you can eat it forever.  its unlimited salad.
<jrwren> "More salad?" "How about some freshly grated parmasean?"
<brousch__> It's kind of interesting how my wife and I have moved from OG/Outback/Logans for date night to more local places too.
<brousch__> PArt of that is more restaurants opening near us
<jrwren> oh man... took me a good 10s to know what OG was, because OG is original gravity to me and I didn't think you were near original gravity :)
<cmaloney> brousch__ is a timelord.
<brousch__> I assumed that was universal
<shakes808> on subject ( food ) and off subject: https://tinyurl.com/h3oe7f7
<cmaloney> I doubt that will get that money
<shakes808> i hope not.  and i hope that people aren't that stupid... but that is highly unlikely
<cmaloney> I don't remember the exact way that works but I think there's a way for "joke" auctions like that to not have to pay
<cmaloney> first off, it's foodstuffs, which I don't think are permitted on eBay (been a while since I was active there)
<brousch__> Crap. I should have auctioned my Michigan-shaped fish nugget
<cmaloney> second-off I think there was an escape-valve that folks could trigger to not have to pay or some shit.
<shakes808> there was this a few years back: https://tinyurl.com/jn9tq76
<shakes808> but if you want to be blessed EVERY TIME you eat a grilled sandwich: https://tinyurl.com/zyv77cb
<cmaloney> http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/vmary_sandwich
<cmaloney> I think the BBC had the best headline for that: made reference to the holy toast.
<shakes808> interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-08
<cmaloney>  morning
<shakes808> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-09
<rick_h> Morning
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> oh no, its only thursday?
<cmaloney> ayep
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> but it's the finest Thursday on the showroom floor
<cmaloney> made with the genuine Corinthian leather
<jrwren> you been buying cars?
<cmaloney> no, just trying to sell you on thursday
<jrwren> hahahaha, corinthian leather. I'm JUST young enough to have not known about that until I much older and someone told me about it.
<cmaloney> would you lije the undercoating?
<cmaloney> it's leafher from corinth, obviously. ;)
<shakes808> morning
<cmaloney> This might be up brousch__'s alley: https://shitxlife.bandcamp.com/album/graveshitter
<brousch__> Not bad, but needs more growling and less screaming
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-10
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> good day.
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h> much better
<rick_h> was lazy recovering from travel yesterday and so today feeling more refreshed
<rick_h> though I kind of like 30s+...brrr today
<cmaloney> Yeah, the cold weather really is a pick-me-up. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: you still collect computers? There is a guy with amiga 600 he doesn't want to keep anymore.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm still "collecting"
<cmaloney> Did the battery leak?
<cmaloney> Acutally I don't think the 600 had the battery-backup
<cmaloney> bbiab.
<brousch__> hoarding?
<brousch__> Nice hat! https://twitter.com/BryanLunduke/status/830106910036738049
<cmaloney> back
<cmaloney> brousch__: Totally
<cmaloney> was re: hoarding
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-02-12
<tony-smlr> SMLR is about to go live! SMLR E226 (2/12/2017) Video:  Video http://youtu.be/nvzkvSSFK8U Audio: http://www.podcastdetroit.com/how-to-listen/listen-to-studio-3/
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Off to grocery-shop. :) BBIAB>
<jrwren> anyone use Sonerezh, Koel, or Groove Basin? I'm leaning toward the first, but will gladly use whatever someone else does so we can pair on OSS improvements if we think of any ;)
<cmaloney> I'm not familiar with any of those
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-05
<rick_h> morning
<_stink_> yo
<_stink_> snow
<rick_h> yea...school cancelled :(
<cmaloney> Oh lovely
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're supposed to get more snow too
<cmaloney> yay
<jrwren> How much did you get? We got abou 4" and school is on here.
<rick_h> we got about 6 I think total. It's hard to tell because it was so windy that there's places where it's really thin and places it's nearly knee high
<jrwren> ah, another case where just a bit north you get a lot more.
<waldo323> i don't know how much we got but 4-7 +drifting, it was right type of snow to shovel with my shovel with wheels on it
<rick_h> yea, the early stuff when it was warmer was the heavy wet stuff but through the day it turned into the light power stuff that I just use my snow pusher vs the blower on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-06
<waldo323> good morning?
<_stink_> sure
<waldo323> hope so, and that the day only improves
<rick_h> wheeee
<cmaloney> \m/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-07
<Scary_Guy> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> Whee
<brousch> ew
<jrwren> snow day!
<jrwren> whoa, that n0p internet scanning company is initiating TLS connections as part of its port scan.  *gasp*  I was just scanned.
<cmaloney> Nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-08
<jrwren> lol, remember testdrive? I just found an ancient testdrive system of quantal dated oct 2012 :)
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Good times
<cmaloney> I just put in the talk submission for the Penguicon Release party
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> wheeee
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<rick_h> not yet...but working on it heh
<rick_h> 15 days and counting
<cmaloney> How's the birthday month so far? :)
<cmaloney> Hah
<rick_h> good, working on house stuff and such
<rick_h> shoveling snow every other day
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> Yesterday I used the snow blower for that little bit of snow, just to save a few minutes
<rick_h> it's been too powdery here, just makes a mess with the blower
<cmaloney> and get it all nice and clean so it could melt away just in time for the next batch
<cmaloney> I did it around 12:30pm so it wasn't as powdery
<cmaloney> had some sunlight on it
<rick_h> ah, gotcha
<cmaloney> Yeah, in the morning it wouldn't have worked
<cmaloney> but I was shamed by my neighbors to going out there and shoveling
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> well I just hate it because when we drive on it it compacts and it's impossible to get up so if it's not going to be warm I want to try to shovel before we leave the house if possible
<cmaloney> Yeah
<rick_h> which I got about 80% clear before my wife left...doh!
<cmaloney> unfortunately I took JoDee to work before I could shovel so I had a tire speedbump
<cmaloney> tire-compacted speedbump
<rick_h> yea
<cmaloney> https://unikeyboard.io/product/terminus/ <- Good God, people ar re-creating the PET 2001 keyboard on purpose.
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET#/media/File:Commodore_2001_Series-IMG_0448b.jpg
<Scary_Guy> I mean it's not exact but it's close
<Scary_Guy> screw matrix layout though.  I mean I'm sure I'd get used to it eventually
<Scary_Guy> http://www.mistelkeyboard.com/barocco-rgb-series/ I just got this and I love it
<Scary_Guy> kinda miss the full layout though, 60% seems stunted.  I'll probably end up getting the keypad
<cmaloney> I just find it slightly humorous that for the longest time I was really looking forward to having a full-sized keyboard on my computer
<cmaloney> and now that we do there's folks trying to see how minimalistic they can get with the design
<cmaloney> Seriously I don't want to think that hard to type
<cmaloney> If I did I'd become a stenographer
<rick_h> I do like 10less though
<rick_h> unless you're an accountant bring that mouse space in for the 95% of the day
<cmaloney> Yeah; I'm a little too addicted to the numeric pad
<cmaloney> but I can see where it might be an advantage.
<Scary_Guy> I saw an old stego unit on craigslist for $8
<Scary_Guy> steno*
<Scary_Guy> https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/BLKPC122Front.jpg really I'd love this keyboard
<Scary_Guy> the only reason I got the split one is because it's more ergonomic.  I have it mounted at the ends of my armrests
<Scary_Guy> well, sort of mounted anyway.  It's not going anywhere that's the point
<rick_h> heh
<rick_h> yea, I keep playing around with keyboards but always come back to my kenisis as my main board
<Scary_Guy> kenisis is legit.  are the keys mechanical though?
<Scary_Guy> that's what I like about this one.  I mean I can tolerate a rubber dome but this does feel much nicer
<rick_h> yea, they're cherry browns which I wish I get could something better
<rick_h> but ergo++
<Scary_Guy> super nice then.  I may end up elevating mine on the insides too.  I hear that's also nice
<Scary_Guy> too bad they don't put the standoffs there
<Scary_Guy> hell, most keyboards I come across I break them off if I can.  horrible for your wrists
<Scary_Guy> while we're on the subject everyone should elevate their monitors to eye level.  also, fuck laptops
<rick_h> monitor arms ftw
<rick_h> only way to fly
<Scary_Guy> mine sit on some old army HAM radios from the Korean war
<cmaloney> That's a hell of an aesthetic
<Scary_Guy> they're actually too high now that I switched out the drafting chair for this gaming one
<Scary_Guy> looks neat but I lack the cables to get them working
<Scary_Guy> they each have little radioactive symbols on them.  I wasn't planning on having kids anyway
<Scary_Guy> also I'm sure the five CRTs I had before didn't help either
<Scary_Guy> I may just elevate this chair, it's kind of like having a standing desk too, though now there is no desk
<jrwren> SWEET!!! I finally finally finally got italics in byobu.
<cmaloney> Wait till you get tmux. :)
<cmaloney> *mind blown*
<jrwren> :p
<jrwren> the whole point was that I had it working in tmux but not byobu-tmux.
<jrwren> what can I say? i really like byobu's status line.
<cmaloney> Seems like an awful lot of baggage for a status line
<cmaloney> but cool nonetheless
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> I never notice the baggage.
<cmaloney> I dunno. Byobu felt really heavy to me
<jrwren> its litterally tmux with custom config.
<jrwren> or screen, but I use byobu-tmux
<cmaloney> Perhaps I like default tmux better tha byobu's defaults
 * cmaloney hasn't looked at byobu since it was a screen wrapper
<jrwren> I'd drop byobu and do tmux if I could get the same status line. the status line is the only reason I use byobu.
<jrwren> I even change the keybindings to be default tmux.
<rick_h> do you use the status line? what info do you find you use regularly through the day?
<rick_h> it always seemed like interesting in theory to know that every so often but not something I needed constant repeated hits on
<jrwren> I use it for update notification and for bwmon. The bwmon has saved my ass numerous times.
<jrwren> i don't need it on every host on which I run, just this particular one, which also happens to be my internet router, so quick glance at data rates is very useful
<_stink_> i still just use gnu screen :P
<cmaloney> _stink_: Honestly you should give tmux a try
<jrwren> +1 tmux is much nicer when connecting with multiple terms to the same session
<cmaloney> I used to be a screen die-hard and I completely moved to tmux because it has a lot of nice things that never made it into screen
<cmaloney> session switching is awesome
<cmaloney> and I'm practically in a tiling window manager with the window splits
<jrwren> I still never window split: )
<waldo323> can you use tmux to connect to a serial console?
<jrwren> no, you'd use something else for that.
<waldo323> one of my uses of screen is "screen /dev/ttyACM0 115200"
<waldo323> for connecting to circuit python boards
<jrwren> what does that do?
<waldo323> give access to the repl on the board
<waldo323> *gives
<jrwren> cool. I'd use minicom for that.
<jrwren> screen sounds like its a bit lighter than minicom for that. I dig it.
<waldo323> it is the command recommended by adafruit's guides,  https://learn.adafruit.com/welcome-to-circuitpython/what-is-circuitpython
<waldo323> woa our mug video comes up first in google search when searching for welcome to circuit python
<waldo323> https://youtu.be/307Ia_mv8AA
<jrwren> so, its screen as a terminal emulator? there aren't multiple windows, right?
<waldo323> That was my assumption.  you can still create other windows like normal but only one connects to the board
<jrwren> huh, i was searching to see if tmux can do it, and I still dont' know, but apparently there is also `tio` tio.github.io
<waldo323> nic
<waldo323> e
<waldo323> it looks like as of 2015 the author of tmux thought the ability was bloat and not the unix way so wasn't likely going to add it
<waldo323> but that also looks like hearsay
<jrwren> figures.
<cmaloney> There's also cu
<jrwren> cool. I didn't know that one either.
<cmaloney> me either
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-09
<Scary_Guy> as far as straight up terminals go I liked terminology and gnome terminal.  I'm using terminator though because it's light on resources and does a good job
<Scary_Guy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_terminal_emulators
<Scary_Guy> https://martin.ankerl.com/2007/09/01/comprehensive-linux-terminal-performance-comparison/ is great too, but outdated
<waldo323> if you're in south east michigan, stay home if you can today
<waldo323> the roads were quite slippery out
<waldo323> also, good morning :)
<Scary_Guy> morning
<rick_h> morning, first shoveling of the day done
<rick_h> didn't seem like that much fell
<brousch> Snow day in Wyoming, despite there not being much snow. Back in my day ...
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> yea, I do feel like there's a lot more "the forecast says so we're cancelling now
<jrwren> i haven't been out yet, but just looking it seems like a lot fell already
<rick_h> was just about 2in when we got up I cleared out
<rick_h> but it's coming down faster now
<cmaloney> Yeah, I need to get out there and plow
<_stink_> royal oak is closed too
<_stink_> seems preemptive
<rick_h> ok, I want to do this now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awm8wytQctU&t=1s
<rick_h> rick snowblowing heh https://youtu.be/KbjER5PBqQI
<Scary_Guy> skibike looks cool, but it would be way cooler with a fat rear studded tire
<rick_h> I don't think it'll get the drift effect the skibike is looking for
<cmaloney> rick_h: THat footage looks way more edited to show it moving than I would like. :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: show it moving?
<cmaloney> You'd definitely need some more hills than trad Michigan to make it work
<rick_h> hah, just means you spend more time on the lift
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> erica is always wanting to go to ski weekends somewhere so I just need to say she needs a find a place with ski-bikes
<rick_h> we hit up crystal mountain every winter, need to get them into these
<cmaloney> THey look more cool than what I first imagined
<cmaloney> might get me skiing with those
 * cmaloney isn't particularly steady on rollerblades and other things where the akle needs to pivot
<jrwren> LMAO @ rick snow blowing. I should make a jay shoveling video ;)
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, and with my knee I'm not eager to get back into trying out the ski stuff
<rick_h> but this looks downright fun
<rick_h> jrwren: :)
<Scary_Guy> I'd rather carry a gigantic bulletproof convex shield to double as a sled.  seriously snow troops should have those
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: There's probably a reason they don't have those. :)
<rick_h> because butts double as sleds?
<rick_h> wheeeee
<cmaloney> not if there's ice
<jrwren> butt sled is fun, until there are sticks.
<rick_h> or sharp rocks...ok true enough
<Scary_Guy> also a bulletproof sled would hold up better against those too
<Scary_Guy> I'm liking this idea more and more
<rick_h> you go make your millions
<rick_h> I hear military spending is on the rise
<jrwren> its captain america guys.  Scary_Guy just wants to be captain america.
<cmaloney> Pretty uch
<cmaloney> much
<Scary_Guy> lol
<Scary_Guy> the shield just needs to be black and gold though
<jrwren> if its red black and gold it can be Captain Germany
<jrwren> or Belgium :]
<Scary_Guy> only red from the blood of my enemies :p
<jrwren> nice!
<waldo323> when i was on the roads earlier there wasn't much additional snow yet but combinations of the light snow on top of the compacted snow made for a very slippery mix
<waldo323> watch the car ahead of me start gliding while we were on a the on ramp from 96 west to 275 north and for a little while they were taking up all the lanes (i think there are 2 there but they were imaginary today)
<waldo323> i think the only sliding i did was just out of my driveway and when i did a couple cautious traction tests in my neighborhood
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-02-10
<rick_h> Well glad it stopped. Some fun times in the truck today.
<rick_h> Triple shovel day
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> driving last night/this morning was nerve racking even in the light traffic.  of course dealing with drunks at 3:30AM is never fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-03
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> last week was All Hands (in SF), so.. today was/is a reallll hard Monday.
<cmaloney> Oof
<cmaloney> Hope you have a better day
<cmaloney> Looks like we're losing folks on IRC. :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-04
<greg-g> Annnnd forgot my charger for my afternoon at the library, guess I'll be ending early today
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-05
<cmaloney> wheee
<gamerchick02> whooooooo! i'm surprised that my new headset works with Ubuntu through it's external DAC.
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> hello
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-07
<gamerchick02> howdy. anyone in here try the new Cherry MX nature white switches? i got them on a new Ducky board and they are lovely.
<jrwren> what are they like?
<cmaloney> hey, jrwren is back!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-08
<gamerchick02> jrwren, they're sweet. smooth and halfway between reds and black
<gamerchick02> also i'm kind of irritated that my copy of SimCity 4 doesn't seem to work on my computer and now i have to buy it off of gog.com. >_<
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-02-09
<Scary_Guy> You can't emulate it?  DOSBox is fun.
<gamerchick02> i've not tried it
<gamerchick02> it's not dosbox. it's windows 7
<Scary_Guy> Yes, DOSBox is a program you can run IN windows 7 to emulate a DOS environment.
<Scary_Guy> I think you can also download an XP virtual machine from MS if you want.  Though that's probably gone now since they've stopped supporting it.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002 apparently not!  Though I hope you don't have the machine hooked up to the net considering it's completely dead now.
<cmaloney> Sim City 4 was after Sim City 3000, which was Windows-based.
<cmaloney> https://www.gog.com/game/simcity_4_deluxe_edition
<cmaloney> There was a version of Sim CIty 3000 for Linux (it was one of the Loki ports)
<Scary_Guy> Ah, well then the XP VM should work fine.  I was thinking of the original.
<Scary_Guy> Oh I see where she said 4 now.  My bad.
