#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-17
<lukehasnoname> Evening gents
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hello pitti!
<pitti> seb128: FYI, doing the ekiga 3 update ATM
<seb128> cool, thanks
<seb128> grrr at xulrunner breaking $webbrowser, brb
<seb128> lool: hi, do you still need the evince hildon patch? it has been disabled some time ago and nobody complain but there is still a copy in the package I'm wondering if it should stay there
<seb128> lool: I think we stopped using it because it was using the hildon fileselector changes and that was not working in intrepid
<pitti> seb128: argh, ekiga 3 forgets *all* configuration settings from 2 :(
<seb128> pitti: urg, upstream deserves some kicking there
<pitti> it starts with the wizard, doesn't know my SIP numbers in evo any more, no call history any more, etc.
<pitti> so I'm not sure at all whether I should upload this now
<seb128> could you try to figure if that's an upstream choice or a bug?
<seb128> we are not likely to do the upstream work there so if that's a choice we can decided to stay on the current version for ever or upload the new one
<pitti> seb128: I'll file some bugs upstream, let's see
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: using @ekiga.net numbers doesn't even work any more
<pitti> gah
<pitti> seb128: ok, done, and mentioned the upstream bugs in bug 274085
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274085 in ekiga "Please update Ekiga to 3.00" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274085
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> hello huats
<huats> hey seb128
<lukehasnoname> What package involves the top menus in Gnome?
<seb128> lukehasnoname: what do you mean exactly?
<lukehasnoname> well,
<lukehasnoname> I don't exactly know where to start, but I very strongly prefer the "fedora" style of the top menus, where the preferences and system menus are broken into smaller groups of similar tasks
<lukehasnoname> and just for kicks I was wondering what packages are involved in fixing that, so that I could "patch" the issue I have on my own
<seb128> lukehasnoname: gnome-menus has the layouts and the applications .desktop set their own categories then so you might need to change those too
<lukehasnoname> thanks, I'll check and see if that is what I want
<lukehasnoname> I really should go to bed though
<lukehasnoname> it's 5:30am and I have class at 10
<kagou> Hi
<seb128> hey kagou
<lool> seb128: Thanks for the headsup, I think we're using plain evince gtk for now for the reason you described
<lool> seb128: ideally, we'd reenable it with an evince-hildon build, just removing the hildon-fm part, but we can do that anytime
<seb128> lool: does it make easier if we keep the patch copied in the debian directory somewhere meanwhile?
<lool> seb128: I don't understand
<lool> seb128: You mean you propose to put the patch somewhere?
<lool> seb128: Anywhere is fine
<seb128> lool: the current package has the patch copied in the debian directory but not used since it didn't apply and we didn't want to block the update, so we copied it out of the patches directory
<lool> seb128: Oh right, just rename it to .patch.disabled if you like
<seb128> that's what we did
<seb128> the question was whether we should keep it under this name or if we can drop it
<seb128> ie, will it be useful when you try to hildonize it again
<lool> seb128: It's easiest to find it like this, but if it's a pain, remove it
<seb128> no it's not, I was just wondering if you planned to hildonize it again some day
<seb128> I'll keep it
<seb128> lool: otherwise I've been looking at syncing pygobject and pygtk on debian
<seb128> did you try to build the new pygtk?
<lool> seb128: Let me check
<lool> seb128: BTW I'm not supposed to do distro stuff this week
<seb128> the make checks breaks there because it tries to access the su recently-used
<lool> seb128: Yeah, I recall that testsuite failure
<lool> seb128: I didn't look into it, but I made the testsuite not fail the build
<lool> seb128: I didn't merge any of the late pygtk/pygobject work to debian though
<lool> Too much in a hurry back then
<seb128> lool: ah, I didn't know, there is no hurry those will likely wait next week anyway because debian bumped the python version to 2.5 which will force to rebuild eveything which uses python2.4-gobject
<seb128> and there is a CD planned for this week
<lool> I see
<seb128> anyway enough distro questions for you for now then, thanks for replying ;-)
<lool> happy to help :)
<lool> (It's ok to answer short questions, just can't start any real distro work)
<seb128> pedro_: you closed bug #83326 too quickly, the crash is a gnome-keyring one, they dupped the upstream bug wrongly or reassigned to the wrong component
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 83326 in gnome-keyring "[apport] [feisty] gnome-keyring-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in strcmp()" [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83326
<pedro_> seb128: ok looking at it
<pedro_> seb128: i'll re open it and re assign the upstream one
<pedro_> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> pedro_: thank you ;-)
<seb128> fta: are you still interested to look at the cairo update?
<asac> seb128: hi ... do you know anyone from upstream we could bribe to take a look at the at-spi patch from gnome bug 558028  (lp 278095)?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 558028 in atkbridge "atkbridge makes firefox remote client crash during shutdown/atexit" [Major,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558028
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278095 in at-spi "MASTER crash in getenv() ... spi_atk_bridge_exit_func()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278095
<seb128> asac: hello, no I don't really know the a11y contributors, you should try asking to themuso rather
<asac> seb128: yeah did so i -devel. just thought you might know more ;)
<seb128> was worth asking but I don't ;-)
<seb128> mvo: bug #297362
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297362 in gnome-games "package gnome-games-data 1:2.24.1-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/python-support/gnome-games-data/glchess/chess/board.py')" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297362
<seb128> mvo: would it be possible to filter out those errors? or autoduplicate rather
<seb128> that's a dpkg bug or something?
<james_w> would a bug pattern work?
<seb128> james_w: aren't bug pattern specific to a source or binary component?
<james_w> not sure, sounds likely though
<mvo> seb128: I will add it
<seb128> grrrrrr, xulrunner stucked again, how can we ship such crappy softwares
<seb128> need to restart
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> mvo: thanks
<asac> seb128: xulrunner? during what use case?
<asac> flash? or general epiphany bustage?
<seb128> asac: still the same issue I gave you valgrind logs about during the hardy cycle
<seb128> asac: it sometimes crash or hang when you close it
<asac> ok crash.
<seb128> no, crash is alright
<seb128> sometime it hangs
<seb128> and blocks any other new instance
<seb128> the stacktrace looks similar when it hangs
<seb128> I think I read on some debian bug that the next xulrunner upload will fix a similar issue
<seb128> let's see if it's fixed this cycle ;-)
<asac> seb128: fixed upstream or in debian?
<asac> let me search for the bug
<seb128> the debian maintainer wrote in a bug that the next xulrunner upload to debian should fix the issue
<seb128> dunno if the fix is an upstream one or a debian specific change though
<asac> hmm buglist of xulrunner in debian is quite short
<seb128> the bug is one assigned to epiphany-browser, I would have read the comments otherwise, I just read pkg-gnome bugs there
<seb128> but there was no useful detail
<asac> seb128: would be grateful for a bug id ;)
<asac> no pending bugs in epiphany-browser atm
<seb128> asac: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=504441
<ubottu> Debian bug 504441 in epiphany-gecko "epiphany-gecko crashes on quit" [Important,Open]
<asac> seb128: a bit strange. the crash has a line number upstream doesnt have in nsThreadUtils.cpp
<asac> looked at debian diff.gz and it seems they have a tentative fix
<asac> that would make the file match that line number again
<asac> but that means the fix doesnt work
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/73407/
<seb128> they didn't do any upload since they added the comment though
<asac> a bit strange because the crash is a null deref
<seb128> which would suggest the change has not been uploaded yet
<asac> yeah. must be
<pitti> if I have a gconftool --dump output, how can I feed that back into gconf?
<pitti> found it (--load)
 * calc thinks he might be getting an ear infection :\
<calc> never had one of those before though so not quite sure what it feels like
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-18
<pitti> hey calc, good luck with that
<pitti> I'm just getting an ordinary cold, but terribly sore throat
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> james_w: hi, do you still get bug #173212?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 173212 in gnome-media "mixer applet cannot be unmuted in new session" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173212
<james_w> I did two months ago
<james_w> I can test again if you like
<james_w> I guess it's more an alsa problem
<seb128> james_w: I think the bug is misassigned
<seb128> right, but it's not clear exactly what your issue is
<seb128> you say that the mixer and applet don't show the same volumes for the same channel?
<james_w> the issues is that a new session changes the behaviour
<seb128> but that's specific to the applet?
<james_w> I'm not sure
<seb128> or alsamixer show issues too?
<seb128> it would be interesting to know if the alsa settings changes
<seb128> or if that's just the applet which shows a wrong status
<seb128> there is no hurry to try, don't close your session only for that
<seb128> I'm just trying to clean the needinfo bugs
<seb128> the fact that this one is hardware specific seems to suggest a driver or alsa issue rather than an applet one
<seb128> we lack somebody knowing about the audio stack triaging those bugs
<mvo> ember_: hello! I'm looking at the brasero update right now, thanks for working on this! what is the rational for dropping "-+X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=brasero" - is this now done automatically by something?
<mvo> seb128: do we have something that sets the X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain automatically now (or is there something that makes it obsolete?)
<seb128> mvo: gnome.mk when using cdbs does
<seb128> mvo: but that's not new
<seb128> mvo: otherwise you have to do it in the rules
<mvo> I rarely use gnome.mk I guess this is why I haven't noticed
<seb128> mvo: cdbs hater ;-)
<seb128> mvo: in fact langpack.mk does it, so you can include that rather than gnome.mk but GNOME packages usually use the gnome one for schemas registration, etc
 * mvo nods
<mvo> ember_: thanks, seb128 figured it out for me :)
<james_w> seb128: confirmed.
<james_w> seb128: when in a session I can mute, which leaves the volume level at e.g. 50% and sets the mute flag
<james_w> seb128: when I restart my session it comes back muted, but with the volume set to 0%, and not having the mute flag set
<seb128> you mean the applet has a mute icon?
<james_w> seb128: alsamixer just shows a pulseaudio device, do you know how I can debug that side of this further
<seb128> what does alsamixer shows?
<james_w> the applet has a mute icon, but the checkbox in the context menu is un-checked
<seb128> well the applet displays a mute icon when volume = 0
<james_w> if you scroll to 0% in the applet then it gets the mute icon
<seb128> try pavucontrol?
<seb128> what does the gnome mixer displays if you double click on the applet icon for example?
<seb128> just to be clear there
<seb128> - you have some volume set
<seb128> - right click on the applet, select the mute option there
<seb128> - the applet is showing the volume as muted, what does the mixer display as volume then?
<james_w> the same value as before selecting mute
<seb128> - then you restart your session and the volume is 0 rather than using the mute toggle
<james_w> yes
<seb128> it seems that the volume is changing between sessions then
<james_w> so my complaint is that it is not consistent.
<seb128> something is switching mute and volume to volume = 0
<james_w> agreed
<james_w> pavucontrol isn't showing anything useful
<seb128> I guess you will have the same issue without having an applet configured
<james_w> the gnome mixer is showing volume = 0 and not muted, as you would expect
<seb128> ok, I don't know enough about pulseaudio and alsa to give you useful hints there
<james_w> I agree, but I don't know how to confirm that
<seb128> you would not expect that
<seb128> you would expect the volume to be what it was during the previous session
<james_w> yeah, I mean I expect that given what the applet is showing
<seb128> and the mute flag to be set
<seb128> ok, anyway doesn't look like a gnome-applets bug
<james_w> I agree
<seb128> maybe you can reassign to alsa-lib rather and try to ask to crimsum when he's around if he has an idea about the issue
<seb128> you can also try to uninstall pulseaudio and see if you still get the issue when using alsa directly
<seb128> hum
<seb128> you opened this bug before the pulseaudio time I think
<seb128> reassing to alsa-lib and let them deal with the bug
<james_w> thanks seb128
<james_w> I updated the bug report to be more clear about the behaviour
<seb128> james_w: thank you for testing and updating the bug ;-)
<asac> seb128: installed xul 1.9.0.4 yet? please go for it and let me know if ephy still crashes on shutdown
<seb128> asac: not yet, I will let you know, they fixed something which seems similar to the issue?
<asac> seb128: just the comment from debian ;)
<seb128> ok
<asac> seb128: hmmm .... do you use REVU and get acks from two MOTUs for new packages :-P ?
<seb128> asac: lol, good one!
<asac> well. i am looking through wiki
<seb128> asac: no, I use my upload power and get one ack from pitti when it's in NEW ;-)
<asac> thats breach of policy isnt it?
<seb128> what policy?
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<seb128> that's a MOTU thing
<asac> what does that mean?
<seb128> I'm not a MOTU ;-)
<asac> core-devs dont need taht?
<pitti> seb128: you are
<asac> this just came up because MOTUs want mozilla packages to go through REVU ... which is completely senseless imo
<seb128> well, let's say I've enough to do without bothering using revu, etc
<seb128> so maybe I'm abusing my power there dunno
<asac> because no MOTU ever reviewed any mozilla package
<seb128> but I really don't feel doing extra paper work only to be compliant to some MOTU policy on the topic
<asac> seb128: i feel the same. but just ignoring it cant be right ;)
<asac> we need to fix that policy then i think
<pitti> I thought that revu thing would only apply for non-MOTUs
<asac> pitti: apparenlty thats not the case.
<pitti> i. e. folks who start learning packaging have to get two MOTU acks (or, likely, some iterations of fixing) before uploading to NEW?
<asac> persia said that everything has to go through REVU
<asac> for NEW packages
<pitti> hm, that's news to me, too
<asac> pitti: i think REVU is for non-MOTUs ... and new-packages
<asac> pitti: well. policy is that you need two ACKs if you want to upload a new package
<asac> REVU is just the standard procedure
<asac> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<pitti> asac: oh, good to know
<seb128> what define a policy and who approve what is official policy?
<asac> pitti: my personal feeling is that this policy cannot be valid for packages that MOTU team doesnt care for
<seb128> ie is that wiki page something official or something MOTU decided in a unilateral way?
<asac> for instance: mozillateam packages -> MOTU never touch those
<pitti> asac: well core-dev is a subset of MOTU
<asac> seb128: i am not sure what the policy process is
<asac> from what i understand motu council can just release policies on their own
<seb128> and that stands for universe imho
<seb128> well I'm not sure why a MOTU should have to go through REVU review either
<asac> as a matter of fact most packages go into universe first
<seb128> somebody who knows about packaging should be able to just do it and upload
<asac> i agree
<seb128> right, but that's creating paper work, slowness and extra work for no good reason
<asac> right. and fta's experience with REVU is that you never get two acks there
<seb128> let's move that to #ubuntu-devel maybe rather?
<asac> the first will happen quickly ... the second never happens and you have to run around poking folks
<seb128> or wait for dholbach reply?
<asac> seb128: lets wait for dholbach
<seb128> well, REVU is similar to sponsoring
<asac> seb128: and then discuss this properly
<asac> when i have the cycles too
<seb128> lot of items, not enough manpower, extra delais
<asac> i am about to run ;)
<seb128> ok
<asac> i think archive admin review should be enough for those that have upload rights
<seb128> yes
<asac> if archive admins say that there is too much garbage then they are supposed to push for a pre-review
<asac> at least if archive admins dont ask for it, there is no reason for such a policy
<seb128> well, somebody who has upload rights should be able to produce a mostly correct package
<ember_> sorry mvo i wasn't here, and thanks for sponsoring.
<ember_> seb128: when you have time can you renew me on desktop-bugs team
<seb128> the team is an open one you can do that on launchpad directly
<ember> where? i was able to renew bugteam but not desktop-bugs
<seb128> not sure of the url but your subscription details should let you renew it
<seb128> or you might need to wait until expiration
<seb128> the team is an open one for sure and you don't need an admin approval, not sure about the launchpad interface, you can ask on #launchpad if that's not clear
<seb128> fta: hey, did you read my comments about the cairo update the other day?
 * pitti rings the desktop team meeting bell
<calc> here
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-18
<pedro_> hello
<seb128> hey
<calc> oh yea this should be updated on fridge bueno can do it apparently if we ask him
<pitti> bryce, Riddell, Keybuk, ArneGoetje: there?
<ArneGoetje> hi
<Keybuk> _o/
<pitti> asac is on holiday
<Riddell> hi
<pitti> calc: as our US representative, could you ring bryce?
<calc> ok
<pitti> that's actually the first topic
 * calc looking up his number now
<pitti> I'll talk to beuno to get the desktop team meeting on the fridge
<pitti> seb128 noticed that there wasn't a team meeting reminder
<pitti> do you guys actually want to get one every week? or woudl having the meeting in evo be enough for you, and we avoid cronspam?
<seb128> having it in e-d-s would be enough imho
<seb128> which is not the case right now
<Keybuk> pitti: I briefly talked to persia about it, apparently the meeting can't go on the fridge, because we don't use #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> uh?
<Riddell> an e-mail the day before to remind about activity I find nice
<calc> he didn't answer the phone
<pitti> calc: ok, thanks for trying
<Riddell> there's nothing channel specific about fridge events, it's for all events
<Keybuk> Riddell: apparently the #ubuntu-meeting bot gets confused
<Riddell> that's the bot's problem
<pitti> ok, I'll continue to send the reminders for now
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to continue to send out meeting reminder emails and ask beuno to get it on the fridge
<seb128> Keybuk: the calendar can have non meeting events too no? we don't specifically need that to be set as a meeting slot there
<Keybuk> dunno :)
<Riddell> "Desktop Team Meeting" is on fridge, but for wrong day
<pitti> before we come to the main topic: two weeks ago we went through the intrepid-updates bugs
<seb128> well, milestones are on the calendar
<pitti> it would really be good to get them sorted by UDS, since at UDS and afterwards we'll all have jaunty in our heads
<pitti> are there any blockers, or bugs which turned out to be complicated?
<Riddell> the cmake/kde4libs/adept breakage is a bit strange
<pitti> Riddell: the kde4libs SRU broke builds?
<Riddell> yeah
<Riddell> NCommander is being great and working on it though
<pitti> so shold that block -updates migration of kde4libs? (the bug is verified otherwise)
<Riddell> yes, for now
<Riddell> it'll likely need a patch to kde4libs to fix
<pitti> Riddell: noted
<pitti> all others are fine with their intrepid-updates bugs?
<seb128> GNOME 2.24.2 tarballs due next week
<pitti> oh, fun
<seb128> but I don't think we will try to do all the updates since that's not a lts
<pitti> right, I agree; it actually was a special exception for hardy
<seb128> the evo stack will likely get an another round of updates though
<pitti> so we'll only do updates to major bug fixes then?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> which reminds me, Riddell, is the new kde microrelease in -proposed?
<Riddell> pitti: no, I got distracted by merges
<Riddell> pitti: I wasn't clear, does it need one bug for every package?
<Riddell> or just one meta-bug?
<pitti> Riddell: yes, one representative for each package would be good, to track verification and migration
<pitti> some uploads already have an LP #
<pitti> so we only need one for packages which don't fix any LP bug in their changelog
<Riddell> ok
<pitti> ok, then let's get to UDS preps
<pitti> Keybuk: any initial words?
<pitti> last week I asked you to think about what you would like to work on during jaunty
<pitti> so I propose everyone gives a quick overview about their intentions
<pitti> personally I'd like to concentrate on fixing bugs, robustifying the apport retracers, and working on CD size
<Keybuk> I think it'd be worth going through each person to get a list of spec ideas firmed up
<seb128> what pitti said + GNOME 2.26 ;-)
<pitti> ArneGoetje: ?
<ArneGoetje> I have enough on my plate: basically continue to work on my usual stuff... fonts, language-selector, font-selector, plus a new item: ibus (a candidate to replace scim)
<Keybuk> you've registered a spec about ibus
<ArneGoetje> yes
<Keybuk> are there any others you'd want for UDS?
<pitti> ArneGoetje: does ibus need UDS discussion, or is it a "just do it" thihng?
<ArneGoetje> needs UDS discussion
<pitti> ah, ok
<ArneGoetje> Keybuk: no thanks :) as I said, I have enough on my plate
<Keybuk> do you think language-selector or font-selector could warrant a discussion?
<Keybuk> especially since we have new UI and Desktop-interested people?
<ArneGoetje> I will probably discuss with mpt about GUI rework and additional features for language-selector.
<pitti> ArneGoetje: please register a spec for this then, so that it can be scheduled
<ArneGoetje> font-selector: I'm looking forward to finally get hold of Keith Packard... need to prod him for more info about fontconfig.
<Keybuk> sounds like they're both worth scheduling an hour for, then
<ArneGoetje> pitti: will do
<mpt> mm, additional features
<pitti> ArneGoetje: thanks; please propose it for the uds-jaunty meeting, so that it stands out from the noise
<ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> calc?
<calc> get release exception and OOo 3.1 in, get OOo languages switched to Pootle/Rosetta, get OOo split builds working.
<Keybuk> which of those are worth a UDS discussion?
<Keybuk> sounds like the pootle/rosetta one could be?
<calc> i need to talk to doko and rosetta people about that one yes
<calc> the release exception i just need to ask for it from the release team i guess, not sure if we need a meeting for that one
<pitti> calc: agreed, but the pootle one does warrant one, I think
<calc> yes
<calc> i will create a blueprint for it
<pitti> @all: please nominate them for uds-jaunty
<pitti> Riddell: what are your plans?
<Keybuk> (and the plans of the Kubuntu Kommunity)
<Keybuk> err, I swear I didn't do that deliberately
<pitti> of Kourse
<Riddell> pitti: listed here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs
<Riddell> pitti: summaried as make Kubuntu with KDE 4 good enough for the whingers on the kubuntu-users mailing list :)
<Riddell> pitti: we have a meeting tonight to discuss them more, then I'll register the specs in LP
<pitti> Riddell: nicely prepared!
<pitti> ok, that's everyone except bryce
<pitti> ACTION: pitti to talk to bryce about jaunty plans
<Keybuk> (and asac, but he's on leave)
<pitti> right
<pitti> so it seems to be a cleanup cycle for GNOME and KDE, and in general
<kwwii> so I am officialy not on the team anymore, right?
<pitti> kwwii: sorry, wasn't aware that you were lurking; feel free to introduce your plans as well :)
<kwwii> pitti: actually, I don't think I am part of the team anymore...wasn't being nasty :-)
<pitti> ok, please make sure to register your specs, preferably by the end of the week
<pitti> and let's finish that intrepid thing, so that we have our heads free for jaunty
<pitti> I cleared my intrepid-updates bug list, so if anyone needs a hand for his', please give me a ping
<pitti> AOB?
<pitti> oh, one thing
<pitti> DebianImportFreeze is December 25, which means in practice that we have this, next, and one week after UDS for finishing merges
<pitti> okay, I feel alone now, so let's wrap up :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * calc hugs everyone while... not getting them sick ;-)
<seb128> oh, I intend to start on GNOME 2.25 for GNOME 2.25.2
<seb128> ie, the week before uds
<seb128> I don't think we have a real need to hurry on pushing 2.25.1, there is not a lot of users on jaunty yet
<seb128> and I prefer to use the time to do cleaning
<Keybuk> kwwii: *hugs*
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine
<seb128> pitti: ok, good, let's do some good cleaning before starting on new crack ;-)
<pitti> yeah, and for jaunty too :)
<pitti> I appreciate having some time to work on bugs
<seb128> me too
<bryce> heya
<bryce> sorry, I'm onsite in Lexington and was helping an engineer with an X bug
<seb128> hey bryce
<pitti> hi bryce
<pitti> bryce: can you please give a quick intro about what you are planning to work on in jaunty?
<bryce> regarding specs, there are a few that ubuntu-x community members are taking the lead on (config tools, etc.) which I'll be assisting on
<bryce> I've also posted one for switching -ati from XAA to EXA
<bryce> that should be pretty straightforward; mostly just testing and following up on bugs
<bryce> testing = stability + performance testing
<bryce> also I plan to do more work on my ongoing Xorg testing spec.  Make XSmoke, and the historical drivers page
<bryce> aside from that probably won't have much time remaining - OEM X bugs are consuming most of my time these days
<bryce> I do want to put a lot of time into getting distro X bugs closed as I'm having good momentum with upstream at getting fixes, so am glad bug fixing is a focus.  I hope I'll have enough time to work on that.
<pitti> bryce: ok, so maintenance, cleanup, and better testing?
<bryce> right, and enhancing tools for configuration and troubleshooting
<pitti> great, seems everyone is focusing on that in jaunty, so far I didn't hear about major new structural changes
<pitti> (of which we had quite a lot in hardy, for example)
<pitti> jaunty should have been an ideal LTS cycle :-P
<seb128> we picked the bad cycle for hardy
<bryce> the one pending  X structural change is kernel modesetting; not sure how much we want to push that.  Sounds like it's still fairly experimental.
<seb128> s/hardy/the lts
<pitti> bryce: ok, thanks for the intro; can you please make sure that the things you want to discuss with others have a blueprint registered, and proposed it for uds-jaunty?
<bryce> pitti: yes, all have blueprints registered at this point
<pitti> bryce: right, KMS sounds worth discussing
<bryce> I'll make sure they're proposed
<pitti> bryce: cheers
<Keybuk> bryce: are the ones you've posted suggested for uds-jaunty?
<Keybuk> I can't find them in the proposed list
<seb128> pitti: btw is the multimedia stack a platform or a desktop team land?
<bryce> Keybuk: not yet; I'm doing that presently
<seb128> I really think we should do something to address the audio stack being outdated and buggy
<rlaager> Amen!
<Keybuk> bryce: *resists the urge to bring the previous #ubuntu-devel topic in here*
<pitti> seb128: as in gstreamer (desktop) or alsa (platform)?
<seb128> pitti: as in pulseaudio
<pitti> pulseaudio actually sounds desktopish, but since Luke handles it, it's platform
<seb128> pitti: or totem and rhythmbox
<seb128> not working correctly due to it
<bryce> Keybuk: done.
<seb128> pitti: "handle", the list of bugs doesn't seem really triaged, the version is outdated, sound effects are not working due to oudated libcanberra, etc
<bryce> Keybuk: a few don't really need full discussion sessions for them.
<seb128> pitti: would be really nice to put some extra ressources to solve that
<pitti> yes, full ack
<Keybuk> bryce: x.org conf options editor - is that separate to alberto's spec?
<rlaager> pitti, seb128: If the "replacing Pidgin with Empathy" thing comes up again, I'd really like to find a way (i.e. figure out the design and get some code written) to ensure that users can have their libpurple (Pidgin, et al.) IM logs automatically read by Empathy. I think that's the most important "data" that an IM client has given that buddy lists are generally stored on the server.
<bryce> Keybuk: nope it's one of the items alberto is working on
<rlaager> pitti: I'm obviously not going to propose having that discussion at UDS, but you thought it might come up. If it does, I'd definitely want to be involved.
<bryce> Keybuk: that's actually a part-2 from a spec we discussed last UDS
<Keybuk> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/screen-configuration-ui
<Keybuk> is already proposed
<pitti> rlaager: personally I'm not planning it for jaunty either, since I'd really like to let people work on bug fixing
<rlaager> pitti: Ok. I like bug fixing. That's what I want to focus on, but I'm not on any Ubuntu teams officially.
<calc> rlaager: merged users (across protocols) is somewhat useful as well and is only stored in libpurple
<pitti> rlaager: but independently from that, I think that switch will be made in the distro worlds at *some* point, so talking about migration paths is always good, even if it lands in jaunty+n
<tedg> Is there a session at UDS planed for talking about the new GDM?
<seb128> rlaager: hi
<rlaager> calc: It was my understanding that Empathy didn't support meta-contacts/persons.
<calc> rlaager: oh ok
<pitti> tedg: good point; can you please register one, so that we can review the missing features and see which ones we need to implement?
<bryce> Keybuk: yep, screen-configuration-ui is essentially a part-3 to this, to expand on the xorg-options-editor functionality
<rlaager> seb128: Hello! Hopefully I'll be generating more patches for you instead of just a pile of bug reports. :)
<tedg> pitti: Okay.
<Keybuk> bryce: ah
<Keybuk> which is part 1 ?
<Keybuk> which is part 2?
<seb128> rlaager: quick comment about this gtk bug where you added a upstream change, we usually don't do too much backporting to non-lts if there is not a strong reason to do
<seb128> rlaager: the stable updates are quite some work and the team is small so we try to reserve backports to annoying issues
<bryce> part 1 is the little dialog enhancement to screen-display-properties which adds in Virtual options for dual-screen functionality - this is deployed already in Intrepid
<rlaager> seb128: Fair enough. What about for Jaunty? I'm not sure how much distro patching you like to do.
<Keybuk> ok great
<Keybuk> I've put them in the right order in the schedule
<seb128> rlaager: let's see when they will roll a new tarball, if they don't we will do backporting
<bryce> part 2 is to expand that into a general purpose option editor.  part 3 is to expand that into a general purpose xorg.conf configuration tool.
<bryce> part 2 is mostly done except for integration, so part 3 is maybe doable for jaunty, but needs discussion.
<rlaager> seb128: For what it's worth, I'm at basically 100% of my non-public data under ~/Private now and things seem to work well. I'd love to hear your thoughts on killing off ~/.recently-used (note, not .xbel) by finding and rooting out the EggRecent code from apps (at least Totem, I think).
<seb128> that's a good idea but ideally something GNOME would do
<johanbr> rlaager: Empathy git has some code for log migration. Haven't tried it, though.
<rlaager> johanbr: I'll have to look at that.
<ArneGoetje> I guess we are finished with the meeting?
<pitti> bryce: oh, were you planning to do the acpi-support obsoletion, too? some of it can be fanned out to several people, but I think someone needs to coordinate it
<pitti> ArneGoetje: yes, a while ago
<ArneGoetje> pitti: didn't notice since there is still discussion going on... :P
 * ArneGoetje -> bed
<pitti> well, it's #ubuntu-desktop :)
<pitti> ArneGoetje: sleep well
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<bryce> pitti: unfortunately I likely won't have much time to help
<bryce> pitti: the OEM team is going to need a lot of X support going forward, and don't have a dedicated X guy (yet?)
<pitti> bryce: since you absorbed quite a lot of knowledge about acpi-support while you were debugging this stuff and doing the merge, would you mind giving a quick tutorial about it at UDS, so that others can help?
<bryce> sorry, I must run to another OEM thingee... bbia hour
<pitti> so that we get a plan "what do we need to do to migrate to pm-utils"?
<bryce> pitti: be happy to participate in the session.  Don't know I really have that much wisdom to share but glad to braindump.
<rlaager> This might be something to discuss at UDS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/40306
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 40306 in ubuntu "Should have accessibility meta packages" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<rlaager> It is, of course, not fixed (at least not from my point of view with bug #40334, which was marked as a duplicate of it).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 40334 in ubuntu-meta "Separate accessibility packages (dup-of: 40306)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 40306 in ubuntu "Should have accessibility meta packages" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40306
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-19
<seb128> those upgrade bugs are so annoying
<seb128> gedit failed to install due to an error 139, that's not a gedit bug!
<maxb> I've disabled the desktop login sound in gnome-sound-properties, but it still plays. Could someone nudge me toward the appropriate package in launchpad to check for bugs, and give me any hints about how to debug this?
<kwwii> maxb: the sounds are set in the ubuntu-sounds package
<maxb> Yes, but that's principally just media files, they get interpreted and played by something else
<kwwii> right
<maxb> gnome-sound-properties looks like it has written appropriate stuff in ~/.local/share/sounds/__custom/, and the gconf key is specifying the __custom theme
<maxb> yet the sound still plays
<kwwii> freaky
<tedg> pitti, seb128, Are you guys following DevKit-power?  Do you expect it to be in Jaunty?
<seb128> no, and no idea about that
<NCommander> seb128, poke?
<seb128> NCommander: hey
<NCommander> seb128, any plans to fix libgtk2-perl?
<seb128> don't ask me, I don't do perl updates ;-)
<NCommander> Who would?
<seb128> I didn't know that it was broken
<NCommander> The test suite is causing a FTBFS
<seb128> aren't we on sync on debian for those?
<NCommander> (it passes fine on real hardware, but the buildd enviornment causing it to go boom)
<NCommander> I think so
<seb128> I would ask on #ubuntu-devel rather
<NCommander> The last sync broke it on powerpc and sparc
<NCommander> The next one broke it everywhere :-)
<seb128> what error?
<NCommander> seb128, the test suite tries to draw windows with GTK
<NCommander> for obvious reasons this fails on the buildds
<seb128> weird
<seb128> usually xvfb-run is used for such things
<NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19651936/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.libgtk2-perl_1%3A1.190-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<NCommander> it is
<seb128> so that's not obvious why it fails on the buildd
<NCommander> pretty much
<NCommander> When I tried it here, it didn't FTBFS
<seb128> try asking lool
<seb128> he did workaround such issues for pygtk before intrepid
<NCommander> Thanks
<seb128> or look to the pygtk changes he did
<seb128> NCommander: try to -no-reset thing mentionned in the changelog maybe
<seb128> NCommander: you can probably do ppa uploads to try
<NCommander> no-reset?
<NCommander> which changelog?
<seb128> read the pygtk changelog
<seb128> the one is the debian directory
<seb128> apt-get source pygtk
<seb128> cd pygtk-version
<seb128> cd debian
<seb128> editor changelog
<NCommander> seb128, do you have an issues with the ARM porters team doing uploads of GNOME packages to fix porting issues? (I just don't want step on anyones toes as we work on porting main :-))
<seb128> NCommander: you can upload to main now? ;-)
<NCommander> Nope
<NCommander> But I've kidnapped a few sponsors
<seb128> NCommander: no issue no, other people have been doing uploads and the desktop team is not actively working on jaunty yet
<NCommander> Perfect
<NCommander> Thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<NCommander> I'll make sure to keep you in the loop if we need to do anything EVIL :-)
<seb128> right
<seb128> or better, don't do anything evil ;-)
<chrisccoulson> ping pitti - i just sent bug 298777 upstream. would you like me to prepare a revised debdiff with the upstream bug number in the patch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298777 in system-tools-backends "system-tools-backends leaves a stale PID file" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298777
<Arby> anybody around with a decent knowledge of cups config?
<Arby> I'm doing some work on system-config-printer-kde for kubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-20
<efrem_> hello
<efrem_> I can't login anymore... how do I disable compiz?
<seb128> mvo: hey
<seb128> mvo: could update-manager call apt in a C locale so the installation bug log would be in english?
<seb128> mvo: or would that have sideeffect on some strings displayed to the user somewhere in the gui?
<mvo> seb128: that would have the side-effect that all prompts (debconf etc) will be english too
<seb128> bah
<seb128> did I already say that I hate those update bugs?
<seb128> bug #300064 bug #298758
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300064 in gedit "package gedit 2.24.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: sub-processo post-installation script retornou estado de saÃ­da de erro 245" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300064
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298758 in gedit "package gedit 2.24.0-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 139" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298758
<seb128> new example of random upgrade cracks on the wrong component and having not enough informations to be useful
<mvo> seb128: I asked the dpkg guys about it if we could have a log hanlder that gives english output but it never went anywhere
<mvo> yes
<mvo> multiple times
<mvo> hm, 245? 139->segfault
<seb128> will you be angry if I switch those to user questions rather than bug?
<fta2> seb128, i'm done with cairo.
<seb128> mvo: I expect those are gconf registration or scrollkeeper update issues
<fta2> seb128, it's in my ppa since  yesterday, looks fine to me and noone complained so far. looks good
<seb128> fta2: ah, good, could you open a sponsoring bug? I'll sponsor the upload after the jaunty cd today
<seb128> fta2: ok, ppa is fine no need to open a bug
<fta2> seb128, ok
<seb128> you can open one but don't bother if you are busy
<mvo> seb128: no, go ahead. I personally thing they are bugs (or incidents) and sometimes have pretty servere consequences for the user. so it would be good to have better means to collect them and figuring out what is happening. but we don't have this currently :/
<mvo> I wonder why apport does not pick up the crashes though (if its exit status 139)
<seb128> mvo: 139 is a crash for sure?
<seb128> mvo: apport doesn't run on stable
<seb128> not by default
<seb128> mvo_: re, got my comment?
<seb128> <seb128> mvo: 139 is a crash for sure?
<seb128>  mvo: apport doesn't run on stable
<seb128>  not by default
<mvo_> sorry, network hates me
<mvo_> seb128: exit code 128+signal 11
<mvo_>  pretty sure (not 100% but pretty sure)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> and what is 145 then?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> 245
<mvo_> hm, not sure, give me a sec
<mvo_> >>> print os.WIFSIGNALED(245)
<mvo_> True
<mvo_> >>> print os.WTERMSIG(245)
<mvo_> 117
<mvo_> ^--- that does not look right
<seb128> mvo_: I guess we can't get a sh -x log by default either?
<mvo_> I was wondering about that
<seb128> or something which tell you what line is crashing?
<mvo_> I think it would be a good idea
<mvo_> maybe we can start some initiative on it?
<seb128> having the command which is crashing or the buggy line would really be useful
<mvo_> we could of course just add it to our own scripts ;)
<mvo_> agreed, I find that most friustrating too
<mvo_> I see there are errors (sometimes bad ones) but there is not enough information what to do about them
<seb128> that's what I hate about those bugs, in desktop packages cases they are often whatever standard command which didn't work but we have no information on which one and the users will not get the bug again usully
<seb128> those bugs are clearly useful in lot of buggy packages cases
<seb128> ie, conflicts, buggy code, etc
<mvo_> >>> print os.WCOREDUMP(245)
<mvo_> True
<seb128> but desktop packages just call the gtk, scrollkeeper, etc updates
<seb128> mvo_: what does that true mean exactly?
<mvo_> uds topic?
<seb128> mvo_: good idea yes
<seb128> I'm wondering how easy it would be to detect what is crashing
<mvo_> maybe something like "if it looks like a crash, try to collect a crashfile that roughly mathes the timestamp
<seb128> apport does know about crashes, it could include in the bug summary whatever crashes happened during the installation timeframe
<mvo_> if it crashes, offer the user to re-run the script that crashed with sh -x (*hard*)
<seb128> and not working in most case
<mvo_> that could in theory make everything worse, but in practise I think it will not
<seb128> like those scrollkeeper-update bugs
<mvo_> you think the second run will just work?
<seb128> they happen often but not enough to get anything useful if you run it again
<seb128> I never managed to get one of the crash when I tried to valgrind the command
<pitti> seb128: is it possible to build evo against the external libical? (bug 299465)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 299465 in libical "libical main inclusion review" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/299465
<seb128> and I did try quite a lot
<mvo_> yeah, I tried as well (in the auto-ugpraer) without results
 * mvo_ goes back to weep over the compiz / g-s-s mess
<seb128> pitti: that's only code changes ;-) I don't know if they modify libical and how much though and how much they rely on the current version though
<seb128> mvo_: good luck and sorry for bothering you about those upgrade bugs again ;-)
<mvo_> no problem
<mvo_> I think its a serious problem
<mvo_> I just don't have a good solution
<pitti> seb128: no idea, just asking if there's a configure test for it, and a --with-external-ical or so; I haven't checked if evo bundles it ATM
<seb128> pitti: no there isn't
<seb128> pitti: they have a copy and no option to use something else
<pitti> bah
<seb128> pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541209
<ubottu> Gnome bug 541209 in libical "Merge libical changes upstream and make it as a external dependency for GNOME modules" [Major,Assigned]
<pitti> seb128: :) thanks
<seb128> pitti: they suggested it as something to do for GNOME 2.26, ie jaunty on the bug
<seb128> but that has not been worked yet I think
<pedro_> pitti: hi!, i'm verifying bug 287689, photos are imported into the import dialog but i'm getting a message saying that the contents of the folders cannot be displayed, however they are, do you get the same there?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 287689 in gthumb "gthumb --import-photos doesn't work in intrepid without intervention" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287689
<pedro_> salut seb128
<pitti> hey pedro_
<pitti> pedro_: no, I don't; does the target folder actually exists?
<pitti> pedro_: maybe it was your selection the last time you used gthumb, and now it got moved/removed?
<pedro_> yup target is my ~/
<pedro_> mm let me try to delete the old preferences
<pitti> hm, that *should* exist :)
<seb128> pedro_: hello!
<seb128> mvo_: could you have a look to bug #300271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300271 in ubuntu "Setting the network proxy doesn't change the synaptic proxy settings (gnome-network-preferences)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300271
<mvo_> seb128: looking
<seb128> mvo_: thanks
<ember> hey
<tedg> seb128, pitti: So I talked to Richard about DevKit-power and GPM.  He's kinda thinking that he would like to have them linked for 2.26.
<pitti> tedg: ah, so gpm will fully move away from hal to dk-power?
<tedg> It seems like that in general is a good thing, but I'm a little worried about how we should go with packages in Jaunty.
<tedg> Should we start with that enabled and then change it if it doesn't make it?
<pitti> well, eventually we'll need to package DK and DK-power anyway
<seb128> dunno about those, I've read nothing on the topic yet
<pitti> I'm more worried about how long we have to run both in parallel, which wastes disk space, memory, etc.
<pitti> DK itself should be fairly small
<seb128> but I tend to not trust the redhat guys to be on schedule for rewrites
<tedg> Well, if you tell GPM to do "dkp mode" it #ifdefs out half the codebase.
<pitti> it's more or less just a d-bus interface to udev, so that doesn't worry me too much
<seb128> they screwed several of those in the recent cycles
<tedg> Well, this one is different.  Basically it's moving a bunch of the GPM code into a lower system level.
<pitti> I hope that DK-power is compatible with hal-info
<seb128> the lower system being stable yet?
<tedg> All of the logging and the intelligence in mapping out the batteries will be in the lower level.
<seb128> does the current version bring anything over what we are using?
<tedg> Oh, stable is probably a strong word...
<tedg> :)
<seb128> you are the one working on those but no need to hurry if the switch doesn't bring anything useful
<tedg> The big advantage of going this route is that power management becomes less "user based" and more "system based."  So you can have power handled properly for things like GDM.
<tedg> Okay, so I'm going to see if I can get everything connected in my PPA and see if there is any "my computer will catch on fire" regressions.  Otherwise, I think it probably makes sense to atleast try dkp for the alphas.
<seb128> that's your call
<seb128> there is enough to do so there is no need to hurry testing things not ready yet
<seb128> but if you think that will be ready to be used in jaunty good to have early testing
<pitti> tedg: fun to see PM being something inherently system specific in the old days, then throwing polkit, hal, and dbus at it to  make it user centric, and now back :-P
<tedg> pitti: The more things change, the more they stay the same :)
<pitti> tedg: in the end we'll decide anyway that nothing beats an 80x25 text VT
 * tedg thinks pitti is stuck in the past.  He's on a VT100!
<tedg> :)
<pitti> hey, 80x25 was a great advancement over the 40x25 I got used to on my C64
<tedg> I wish I could double my screen resolution with every upgrade...
<dobey> i don't, but a 4x increase would be nice
<tedg> I'm willing to upgrade twice ;)
<dobey> heh
<dobey> i prefer maintaining aspect :)
<tedg> What you don't want to support non-square pixels in the icon spec?  That's no fun.
<dobey> no
<tedg> {theme name}/{size}/{pixel aspect ratio}/{category}/{icon}
<dobey> but i don't want to go from 1600x1024 to 3200x1024 for my display resolution
<tedg> You have to add another level just because someone could actually use 32x16 icons somewhere else :)
<dobey> people do use 32x16 icons :(
<tedg> Heh, I honestly haven't seen that.  And no, that isn't a challenge to show me.  I'd prefer not to know. :)
<mvo_> tedg: do you have good gnome-screensaver upstream contact? it would be kind of nice to get feedback on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=561567
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=561567)
<tedg> mvo_: I seem to be having the same problems as ubottu_ ...
<mvo_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz-fusion-plugins-main/+bug/247088
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247088 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "expo allows bypass of screensaver" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> mvo_: you can try to ping him on #gnome-hackers when he's around
<seb128> doesn't seem to be the case right now
<atrawog> #ubuntu
<FMK> hi
<FMK> is anyone here?
<anthony> Hi, I asked a while back about anti-tremor stuff, and supposedly mousetweaks was going to do that. Does anyone know the current status?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-21
<seb128> mvo: btw I don't know if you real planet gnome but there is new libnotify and notification-daemon versions, do you want to do the updates for jaunty when you have some free slot to work on those?
<mvo> seb128: sure
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> mvo: thank *you* ;-)
<mvo> seb128: all prepared, upload after the freeze
 * mvo whishes there was a delay slot for uploads 
<seb128> mvo: you rock ;-)
<mvo> thanks seb128, a nice change from the compiz screensaver problem
<mvo> I have a sledgehammer approch now for it I think
<seb128> mvo: did you get any upstream feedback on this one?
<mvo> seb128: yes, very friendly, but "can't reproduce" - but my bad, my initial description was not very clear
<mvo> I fixed it and hopefully will get better feedback
<seb128> pitti: dunno if evolution-data-server and evolution should be moved to intrepid-updates or not, the current version has a new crasher when use the empty trash, they will roll new tarballs next week for GNOME 2.24.2 which fix that and some other issues
<pitti> seb128: can't yet, not yet built on some arches
<pitti> seb128: okay, let's wait then; regressions are bad
<seb128> pitti: ok
<seb128> the new version fix that and some other bugs too, let's wait for this one
<mvo> seb128: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/jaunty-codec-install (just fyi)
<seb128> mvo: danke
<seb128> mvo: not sure now but did we also agree to have a session to discuss the installation issues bugs and what we could do better?
<mvo> seb128: yes, I will add one for this as wlel
<mvo> well
 * mvo is a bit slow today, had a rought night
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<seb128> oh?
<seb128> worked late on this security issue?
<mvo> the security stuff didn't help :)
<mvo> but that is fixed for good now (finally!)
<mvo> expo got fixed by maniac103 (he is a rockstar)
<seb128> ok, good
<fta> hm, evolution crashes a lot, but not in gdb with -dbg installed
<seb128> weird
<seb128> intrepid or jaunty?
<seb128> (not that it should really make a difference)
<seb128> and when doing what?
<fta> jaunty
<fta> going the calendar
<fta> +to
<fta> btw, mail-notification is a disaster too, it makes evo crash on startup
<fta> bug 251031
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 251031 in mail-notification "evolution 2.23.5 crashes on startup " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/251031
<fta> there's even a patch, why has it been ignored for so long?
<seb128> fta: you are a MOTU no? why don't you fix it?
<seb128> fta: that's an universe package and I don't use it and I'm not subscribed but anybody else is welcome to update a fix
<fta> seb128, i just started to use evo 2 days ago, so i don't know what to expect from it
<fta> seb128, ok, i'll test and push if it works
<seb128> fta: the calendar crash could be bug #270271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270271 in evolution "evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270271
<fta> i can't figure out how to add my other emails when i compose a mail. where is that supposed to be set?
<seb128> fta: try disabling a11y and see if that makes it work for you
<seb128> fta: evolution doesn't allow to do that easily, you need to add accounts for each email you have, just select no server to receive mail for those
<fta> hm, ok, will try that
<fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/75247/
<seb128> right, that's the same bug
<seb128> disable a11y
<seb128> or do you need a11y?
<seb128> the issue seems to be an at-spi one rather than an evolution bug
<seb128> or rather they are discussing it on the GNOME bug
<fta> i don't need ally.
<fta> disabled now
<pedro_> looks like bug 270271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270271 in evolution "evolution crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270271
<fta> same crash
<seb128> you need to restart your session to have that taking effect I think
<fta> ok, it will have to wait then. too many things running at the moment
<fta> thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<fta> btw, the new cairo is causing a ftbfs in xulrunner (at least in the new one 1.9.1)
<fta> something with a missing directfb header
<fta> i'll have a closer look later today
<seb128> ok
<jcastro> seb128: should I make an lp entry for evolution-mapi?
<seb128> jcastro: no opinion on the topic, I did look at packaging yet, dunno about the server team and the samba guys though
<seb128> jcastro: it'll probably be useful once it's packaged though
<jcastro> yeah I was just going to get it out of the way
<seb128> right, good idea, what is done now is not to do later ;-)
<jcastro> done!
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-23
<selkies> hi
<selkies> Amarnath
<selkies> hello
<selkies> hello
<selkies> how to restore
<selkies> ???
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-16
<hyperair> asac: could i bug you about bug #483487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 483487 in network-manager-applet "Cannot connect to hidden WPA/WPA2 Enterprise network" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/483487
<asac_> seb128: there?
<seb128> asac_, in a session
<seb128> asac_, but otherwise yes
<seb128> ie I can reply to questions there
<asac_> seb128: is rick next to you?
<asac_> seb128: the firefox session needs to be moved somewhere else
<seb128> yes, leading the session and on video too
<seb128> I will tell him after session
<asac_> as jdstrand cannot be there ... and makes no sense
<asac_> yeh ... but that session is _next_ session
<asac_> ;)
<asac_> thx
<asac_> !time
<ubottu> Information about using and setting your computer's clock on Ubuntu can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuTime - See https://help.ubuntu.com/9.04/serverguide/C/NTP.html for information on usage of the Network Time Protocol (NTP)
<huats> hello everyone
<fagan> huats: hello from dallas :)
<huats> Hey :)
<huats> enjoy fagan !
<huats> Hello from my hotel room too ! :)
<huats> fagan, but not in Dallas :(
<fagan> awh
<Hb_Kai> ping
<ror> pong
<xnockout_> i have problem with beryl.. can anyone help me?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-17
<kenvandine> pitti, ping
<seb128> kenvandine, it's probably bed time for jetlaged germans...
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, scheduling issues?
<kenvandine> not issues
<kenvandine> just had a new blueprint
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> created one just for gwibber stabilizations/enhancements
<seb128> nothing I can tweak then
<kenvandine> nope :)
<seb128> I don't have access to that
<baptistemm> hello
<baptistemm> hmmm
<baptistemm> why can't I find linux-image-debug in package list
<baptistemm> I have added ddebs repo ...
<boya1> hi folks, has anyone experienced a problem with keyboard layout on Ubuntu 9.04?
<n3m3s1s4u> Hi all - Where can I go to ask a question about Google Deskletts and when you reboot the applets dont remember your settings (account information) ? thanks
<rickspencer3> asac, can we get together with Randy at 9am?
<serialorder> i know you all are busy at UDS but if you get a minute perhaps someone can explain something simple to me
<serialorder> I was looking at some of the syncs here: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html  and I noticed that some of the packages don't have an ubuntu delta,  ex esound_0.2.41-5 but the control file has changed so the maintainer is Ubuntu Developers. I am new to all this so I am wondering how that situation comes to be?
<Laney> serialorder: I don't see that - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/esound_0.2.41-5.dsc
<serialorder> Laney, ok your right when I look at the actual package that is not the case but when I look at package details with apt-cache then I see it http://pastebin.com/f66dc7f5b
<serialorder> it was jsut confusing to me and i was wondering why
<Laney> it's probably rewritten in the deb somehow
<serialorder> sorry, what do you mean?
<kenvandine> pitti, can you schedule https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gwibber-enhancements for me?
<pitti> kenvandine: already in progress
<kenvandine> excellent :)
<kenvandine> thx pitti
<pitti> np :)
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, hey, you're not at UDS, right?
<jcastro_> rickspencer3: nope
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, are you going to join the Compiz settings session remotely?
<rickspencer3> it starts in about 40 mins.
<rickspencer3> jcastro_ can you provide instructions for listening in and using irc for remote participation, please?
<jcastro_> rickspencer3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/RemoteParticipation
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, ^
<rickspencer3> ;)
<czajkowski> rickspencer3: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2009/11/12/how-to-participate-remotely-and-get-your-points-heard/
<rickspencer3> chouette!
<rickspencer3> tanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> rickspencer3: np
<jpds> Who should I poke about bug #445256 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445256 in gdm-2.20 "Wrong path to X server in gdm.conf" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445256
<jpds> It completely breaks GDM if one installs the gdm-2.20 package.
<jcastro_> vuntz: you are up next hour for videoing a session
<vuntz> jcastro_: I guess I can, as long as it's not something that is difficult to handle :-)
<vuntz> (you know how french people are ;-))
<jcastro_> vuntz: you're off the hook!
<vuntz> jcastro_: no love for me?
<jcastro_> vuntz: I am trying to help you. :D
<tgpraveen2> "Bluetooth on-demand - Bluetooth services are automatically started   when needed and stopped 30 seconds after last device use," this feature is not there in karmic right?
<tgpraveen2> might be a good thing in lucid
<kenvandine> pitti, did you schedule that gwibber session?
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: sorry, was at work
<Amaranth> looks like the only proposed changes made to compiz settings so far are to cripple the widget and wobbly plugins...
<Amaranth> oh, I see, it's changing wobbly to do wobbly map which I believe I once said I wished we could have without regular wobbly
<Amaranth> but that's not what that settings change does, we're missing the second half (no regular wobbly) :)
<TheMuso> pitti: Do you object to putting the gconf xml file for the gdm user under control of the alternatives system? We would like to be able to set a different GTK theme for UbuntuStudio for lucid, and unless thigns change radically this cycle, I feel the alternatives system is the easiest way to allow derivatives to set their own GTK theme using gconf. Xubuntu uses XFCe tools to set up such theming, however UbuntuStudio uses GNOME, hense my questio
<seb128> TheMuso, no alternative please
<seb128> TheMuso, those are a recipe for issues
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, I missed the session as well
<seb128> rickspencer3, Amaranth: what session?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-18
<vuntz> didrocks: go to bed!
<didrocks> vuntz: I'm in bed :)
<didrocks> you?
<vuntz> same :-)
<baptistemm> Does anyone have an SSD disk here? I'm open to any comment or suggestion to replace the mechanic disk of my T61
<baptistemm> Christmas is coming :)
<ccooke> baptistemm: yes, I have one
<ccooke> what are you after?
<Laney> tasty, new tomboy
<baptistemm> ccooke, what you mean? I head of the Intel x25-m, there were nice but it was one year ago, what hot now
<baptistemm> +'s
<ccooke> baptistemm: I have an Intel X25-M g2
<baptistemm> s/ head/ heard
<baptistemm> ah
<ccooke> which are cheaper than the original x25-m and faster
<baptistemm> ah nice
<ccooke> They were still the best in terms of common usage a couple of months ago, when I bought mine
<baptistemm> I don't doo a lot of I/O, I just want fast boot and quick app launching
<baptistemm> :)
<baptistemm> and no more trade-off about the capacity
<baptistemm> I have 130 GB I guess in my laptop
<ccooke> the intel -m series are artificially limited in sequential write speed to differentiate from the -e series (which are much more expensive). They're slower than other SSDs for that, but the fastest for the usage most people actually do: random read and write is *fast*.
<ccooke> I have the 160GB SSD.
<ccooke> There'll be a 320GB out (now or later, I forget).. and that should be faster than the 160
<ccooke> generally with SSD, the more space you have the faster the disk
<baptistemm> eh
<baptistemm> is G2 == "postville" ? I see that when looking for X25
<baptistemm> 160  is 379,98 â¬
<ccooke> that's right
<baptistemm> what a price for a hard drivce
<ccooke> yes, but my laptop now boots in about 3-4 seconds :-)
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, I did so yesterday (gwibber session)
<pitti> TheMuso: alternatives are very brittle unfortunately; perhaps we can find a better way, like adding another gconf search path for gdm for derivative themes to stack on?
<baptistemm> ccooke, that impressive
<mannyv> ive filed a few sync requests for some desktop packages on LP. Is that all I need to do or is there some further step to get them processed?
<mannyv> btw I was formerly serialorder, decided to follow suit and just use my name =P
<TheMuso> pitti: Fair enough. If I manage to catch you at some point during the rest of this week, we can have a chat about it.
<kenvandine> pitti, thx... i found it last night.  We couldn't find it in the summit system in the afternoon.
<LaserJock> kenvandine: ping
<kenvandine> LaserJock, pong
<LaserJock> kenvandine: hi, I was looking at bug #444170 again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444170 in indicator-session "empathy started automatically on incoming message" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444170
 * kenvandine just commented on that :)
<LaserJock> kenvandine: are there any plans for hooking up more services/apps to the session applet?
<LaserJock> right now it seems like empathy's behavior is the odd one
<kenvandine> not certain atm, i know there are some specs
<kenvandine> well it isn't actually the session applet
<kenvandine> it is what mission-control-5 does
<kenvandine> however
<kenvandine> it is possible that there is a way the applet could change the behavior
<kenvandine> but i don't have ideas there
<kenvandine> like how should the applet know if you want to be online or not?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I don't have a problem with the session applet
<LaserJock> it's more  like a problem with mission control
<kenvandine> i don't think so
<kenvandine> i think that design is right
<kenvandine> the question is can we be better at predicting when we should connect to it
<LaserJock> I don't see how the design is really right though
<LaserJock> it's opening up apps when I've closed them
<kenvandine> if you set it to offline or dnd, it won't open them
<kenvandine> LaserJock, sort of
<LaserJock> ok, but that's the *only* app where that happens
<LaserJock> it's unexpected behavior
<kenvandine> empathy is a handler for incoming messages
<kenvandine> so mission-control-5 opens empathy as the handler
<kenvandine> i think the missing piece is telling MC what the right state is
<LaserJock> well, for me the problem is that I can't tell individual services what state I want to be in
<LaserJock> the "normal" way to do that is to open or close the app
<kenvandine> yeah
<LaserJock> but with empathy/mission-control that's no longer really the case
<kenvandine> right, because you didn't close the program that gets the messages
<kenvandine> you closed the current instance of the handler for those messages
<LaserJock> right, but I didn't know I "opened" that app
<kenvandine> perhaps when you quit empathy it should set your status as offline
<LaserJock> so you see where it gets to be confusing
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i agree it is confusing
<LaserJock> but what if I'm not offline
<LaserJock> what if I just don't want IM's at the moment
<kenvandine> well... what should happen when you get a message and you don't have an IM client running?
<Zdra> LaserJock, in empathy you can go to discussion->quit
<Zdra> that will disconnect your accounts
<Zdra> or just set your presence offline
<kenvandine> Zdra, he wants a different state
<LaserJock> kenvandine: nothing
<kenvandine> he wants to be online
<kenvandine> but not get messages
<Zdra> hidden?
<LaserJock> I want to say "I don't want any IMs but I do want emails"
<LaserJock> or "I want microblogging and IMs but no email"
<kenvandine> LaserJock, offline doesn't make you stop getting emails :)
<kenvandine> that presence in the status applet only affects your IM status
<kenvandine> at least now
<LaserJock> right, but how am I to know? that's what is confusing
<LaserJock> each app acts differently
<LaserJock> it's super confusing
<kenvandine> LaserJock, perhaps when you quit empathy it should set you to offline?
<kenvandine> and the session applet won't change that back unless you do it
<LaserJock> but what if I don't want to be offline?
<LaserJock> the thing is, "offline" is almost meaningless in this context
<LaserJock> offline to what?
<kenvandine> LaserJock, offline means you don't get messages
<LaserJock> I just want a particular service to go away
<kenvandine> yeah... so offline does that
<LaserJock> but it will to all services, no?
<kenvandine> IM
<LaserJock> why only IM?
<kenvandine> that is all the session applet sets now
<LaserJock> well, but that's not the designed state of things is it?
<kenvandine> we've talked about getting hints from that for other apps
<kenvandine> so like gwibber might not send notifications if you have set offline or DND
<kenvandine> it is
<kenvandine> LaserJock, that was the design for the karmic cycle
<LaserJock> ok, so what's the point of having it only interact with 1 service
<LaserJock> 1 app even
<kenvandine> not an app
<kenvandine> a service
<LaserJock> wouldn't it be better to just leave it alone?
<kenvandine> it was a start
<kenvandine> we want to use that to set some presence information/hints desktop wide
<LaserJock> the inconsistency is worse than the problem trying to be fixed
<LaserJock> ok
<kenvandine> IM was the obvious start
<LaserJock> *so* that goes back to my question
<LaserJock> what if I only want a particular service "offline"
<LaserJock> how will I do that?
<kenvandine> you mean a single IM account?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> say empathy, gwibber, and evolution are all using these hints or whatever
<kenvandine> that is the only service affected by this
<LaserJock> but you just said you hope more will use it
 * kenvandine isn't a user experience guy :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<LaserJock> so if they do
<kenvandine> there haven't been completely designed yet
<LaserJock> what will the meaning of "offline" be
<kenvandine> that interaction hasn't been completely decided
<LaserJock> then why is it implemented!
<kenvandine> it isn't
<kenvandine> this was to prevent a regression
<LaserJock> then why does this bug exist?
<kenvandine> the fast user switching applet in jaunty and eariler would set your IM status
<kenvandine> for pidgin
<LaserJock> right, I thought that was a bug, but whatever
<kenvandine> the difference is this sets pidgin or mission-control depending on which is running and configured
<LaserJock> ok, but the real issue here is that pidgin is a user-facing app
<LaserJock> mission-control is ont
<LaserJock> *not
<kenvandine> yeah
<LaserJock> and that's a huge difference in behavior
<LaserJock> I didn't even know mission-control existed
 * kenvandine does think most people want to set themselves as offline when they want to be offline
<LaserJock> all I knew was that I closed an app and then it kept reopening
<kenvandine> yeah, it isn't obvious
<kenvandine> but
<LaserJock> when I want to be offline I close apps
<kenvandine> note the status is still reported in the applet
<kenvandine> so you can see you are still online
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but it makes pretty much 0 sense to have to use an applet to actual "close" an app
 * kenvandine thinks the concept of closing an app doesn't apply so much anymore
<LaserJock> why not?
<kenvandine> but that is a much bigger discussion than i can get into now :)
<LaserJock> I've yet to experience a person who does anything but close the app when they decide they are done
<kenvandine> anyway, if you have suggestions on how that interaction can be better please provide that
<kenvandine> so the UX folks can weigh in
<kenvandine> for openoffice that makes sense
<kenvandine> but for communications that is different
<LaserJock> my suggestion would be to get rid of the session status thing until more than empath/mission control uses it
<kenvandine> do you unplug your land line phone at home when you aren't using your phone?
<LaserJock> no, but I hang up the headset!
<kenvandine> it's the same thing
<kenvandine> people can still call you
<LaserJock> but if you don't want them to, what do you do?
<kenvandine> you just ignore it :)
<LaserJock> you turn the bugger off or unplug it
<LaserJock> with a cell phone you turn it off
<kenvandine> so on your desktop, you set your IM to offline
<LaserJock> no, I close the IM app ;-)
 * kenvandine needs to get back to this UDS session :)  
<LaserJock> I mean, I understand where this is headed
<kenvandine> LaserJock, please provide the feedback in the bug report though
<LaserJock> but partial implementations are just more confusing
<kenvandine> we definately want your feedback
<LaserJock> kenvandine: I just dont' know how to give it, frankly
<kenvandine> yeah... understand
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is just really starting to feel far away from what I find personally usable
<LaserJock> and since it seems to be by design I'm having problems trying to figure out how I can help
<kenvandine> it isn't just ubuntu, it is more things are becoming more widely used across the desktop
<kenvandine> which i think is awesome... the ability to leverage telepathy from other desktop apps is awesome
<kenvandine> i think it is just good progress, evolution of desktop technologies
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I've been using the desktop and file sharing
<LaserJock> that's cool
<LaserJock> but then empathy is really not a very good IM/IRC client for me
<kenvandine> the thing is it needs to feel natural for you to set yourself as offline when you want to be offline
 * kenvandine thinks it is a great IM client... but not a great irc client
<LaserJock> so I get frustrated when features are added but seemingly basic stuff stops realy working
<kenvandine> LaserJock, but this isn't something that stopped working, it is that it requires different behavior
<LaserJock> my essential problem with all this is that I have very different levels of offline and online
<LaserJock> well, I currently don't trust that I can use Ubuntu to give a presentation
<LaserJock> I used to, but not any more
<kenvandine> why not?
<kenvandine> set yourself to offline and quit gwibber
<LaserJock> because frankly I'm afraid some notification is going to pop up
<kenvandine> quitting gwibber does kill the service now
<LaserJock> but I don't know where they come from
<LaserJock> because I didn't know about those, maybe there are others
<LaserJock> after talking with you guys for a while I feel like I understand it a bit better
<LaserJock> but there were a few days there where I was kinda freaked out
<kenvandine> i added that quit behavior based on our conversation :)
<LaserJock> things were just popping up, and I couldn't tell why
<kenvandine> and for the next cycle gwibber will take hints from your status
<kenvandine> so not display notifications when you are offline or dnd
<kenvandine> something like that
<LaserJock> yeah, that's definitely better
<kenvandine> we have been discussing that this week at uds
<kenvandine> we will use mission-control for a hint
<LaserJock> I just started feeling like I couldn't trust my computer
<LaserJock> which sounds silly
<LaserJock> but I was going around with ps aux for a while making sure I had everything closed before doing a demo or talk for instance
<LaserJock> which seems like a step down in usability, at least IMO :-)
<LaserJock> speaking of empathy as an IM client, does anybody know how to get it to have chats all in the same window?
<TheMuso> pitti: Would derivatives be able to set an additional gconf path when they install a particular gdm theme package, or does the gdm package need to be extended to add another path?
<pitti> TheMuso: I'm not entirely sure; I think we should discuss that with seb128
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-19
<mdz> pitti, rickspencer3 says you have scripts which scrape blueprints. i can has?
<mdz> I was hoping it was in the API now, but apparently now
<mdz> s/now$/not/
<chrisccoulson> hope everyone is having fun at UDS :)
<TheMuso> pitti: For future reference, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio/Log explains how to get a log of pulseaudio's output.
<Amaranth> whee people going nuts about GIMP
<ajmitch> what'd you expect?
<mdz> pitti, when all of your work items are documented in the status whiteboard, what do you use the Implementation section of the spec for?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-20
<huats> morning
<chrisccoulson> hey huats
<pitti> TheMuso: ah, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-21
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: around?
<mac_v> the bug regarding gnome-screensaver not being inhibited during video playback... seems to happen only in vlc from me... but when i play the videos using totem the screensaver doesnt activate... how is totem alone able to do it?
<chrisccoulson> hi mac_v
<chrisccoulson> totem uses the (correct) gnome-session inhibit API
<chrisccoulson> VLC uses an old method which doesnt work any more
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: hmm , ok... then why is it a gpm bug? why cant vlc use the same API as totem?
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - which bug are you referring to?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: Bug #428884
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver-command --poke no longer inhibits screensaver" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884
<chrisccoulson> who says it's a gpm bug?
<mac_v> oh , so its a screensaver bug?
 * mac_v got confused :?
<chrisccoulson> its a bug in gnome-screensaver that the --poke command doesnt work, but VLC should be using the inhibit API really
<chrisccoulson> sorry i take a while to reply - baby to look after now!
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: congrats :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks :)
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: then should i reopen the vlc task?
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - not for now. it's probably something which should be discussed upstream
<chrisccoulson> the bug has turned in to describing the issue about the --poke command not working, which affects several applications, rather than specifically being about VLC
<chrisccoulson> if anything, there should be a separate bug report for VLC using the new inhibit API
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: ah , ok... i'll wont disturb you now.../me tiptoes out ;)
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
 * chrisccoulson heads off back to baby
<ircuser> Is it safe to use my Western Digital Passport Essential to use in Linux(Karmic)? I have been using it in Vista till now. I have heard people say that Ubuntu will damage or corrupt the file system.
<rickspencer3> ircuser, who said that? is there a link or something I can check out?
<rickspencer3> I think this is just a normal USB hardrive, right?
<ircuser> rickspencer3: no nick...sorry...but as a generel perception (i won't say majority) but around me..some friends and seniors...and i was not sure
<ircuser> rickspencer3: yeah.. use 2.0 .. 500gb... portable...ntfs...
<rickspencer3> ircuser, hmm
<rickspencer3> I don't know why you would experience a problem reading/writing to a hard drive
<ircuser> rickspencer3: even i don't know...i have started using ubuntu and i use it primarily as my os..but i also use vista as i can't migrate completely...so i was worried...may be file system corruption etc...
<rickspencer3> this is just an external drive that you connect with USB, right?
<ircuser> rickspencer3: and every file that i write to ntfs partition from ext4 (ubuntu) is marked as shared
<ircuser> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> ircuser, it sounds like it's time for you to back up your data in any case (if you're worried about losing it for any reason)
<rickspencer3> but there's no reason other OS's shouldn't be able to read and write files with it
<ircuser> rickspencer3: right. but it's a new ext hard disk and this is the hard disk i bought for backup task...so it's now like protecting the protector :)
<rickspencer3> well, like I say, there shouldn't be a problm
<rickspencer3> you might want to ask in #ubuntu, as this channel is for ubuntu developers, and they are all traveling home from UDS atm
<ircuser> rickspencer3: it reads and writes ... just needed to be sure that there's no potential damage..thanksf or your help....
<ircuser> rickspencer3: oh...
<rickspencer3> ircuser, np
<ircuser> rickspencer3: thanks a lot...
<rickspencer3> sure
<rickspencer3> have fun
<mannyv> im looking at a control file and debian depends on debhelper (>= 7) while the ubuntu version depends on debhelper (>= 7.0.17ubuntu2) but the version in lucid will be 7.4.3ubuntu2 so can I change it back to  (>= 7) ?
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> clearly not
<mannyv> ok but I am wondering why if the lucid version will be > than 7.0.17ubuntu2
<Keybuk> mannyv: it doesn't change the fact that the package needs >= 7.0.17ubuntu2 to build
<Keybuk> it's quite common for people to backport packages from the development release
<mannyv> ok fair enough
<Keybuk> even to hardy
<Keybuk> and they'll still need the updated debhelper
<mannyv> Keybuk, that obviously makes sense, thanks
<Amaranth> mannyv: Packages should always reflect their actual dependencies anyway. Obviously versions older than 7.0.17ubuntu2 didn't have a feature the package needs
<SoftwareExplorer> Is there a common library or something that is in charge of drawing sound visualizations in both totem and rhythmbox
<SoftwareExplorer> ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-22
<dtchen> SoftwareExplorer: GSt.
<SoftwareExplorer> dtchen: Thanks. Do you know what package specifically? I'm trying to file a bug. If it helps you know what package, the bug only happens when I'm playing .spx files
<dtchen> gst-plugins-good0.10 | 0.10.16-1ubuntu3 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com karmic/main Sources
<SoftwareExplorer> dtchen: thanks that helps a lot
<dtchen> yw
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-22
<kklimonda> good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti, how was your week-end?
<pitti> pretty quiet, and relaxing
<pitti> I started to watch Big Bang Theory
<pitti> awexome!
<didrocks> pitti: hehe, yes it is!
<didrocks> pitti: Julie and I watched all the episods of the 3 seasons in less than 2 weeks!
<pitti> heh
<pitti> I'm at 1-16 now
<pitti> didrocks: how was your's?
<didrocks> pitti: was nice, thanks. At least a week-end with some sun. So, we walk a little in Annecy (before the snow which should come today or tomorrow)
<pitti> so I've heard -- finally winter
<didrocks> yeah :)
<kklimonda> seb is working today?
<didrocks> kklimonda: I think so, he'll be thee in some minutes I guess
<kklimonda> thanks :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<kklimonda> o/ rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi kklimonda
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, since you've merged the branch, can you remove it please (git push :wip/query-response)
<rodrigo_> git push origin :wip/query-response, sorry
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: I'll use it to finish _execute_query part
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey, I still can't install libgnome-media-dev in natty (with gnome3-builds PPA)
<Zdra> seb128, FYI libgcr is missing a dep on libgck for the gnome-keyring package in gnome3-build
<Zdra> seb128, hm, the binary has the dep, but not the -dev package
<Zdra> also, it is unfortunate that gnome-keyring-3 is not // installable with version2
<kklimonda> seb128: I've prepared an update for glibmm to 2.27.3 (requested a merge: https://code.launchpad.net/~kklimonda/glibmm2.4/packaging/+merge/41428) and also fixed the issues with atkmm1.6 you had and updated it to 2.22.1 which ships the missing license file.
<Zdra> that makes all apps linked on the -2 fail
<Zdra> seb128, also, I can't start the daemon:
<Zdra> $ gnome-keyring-daemon -s
<Zdra> ** Message: couldn't connect to control socket at: /tmp/keyring-Gtstrz/control: Connexion refusÃ©e
<Zdra> any idea what's going on?
<seb128> Zdra, hey
<seb128> Zdra, you should ask rodrigo when he joins
<seb128> he worked on gnome-keyring3
<seb128> kklimonda, hey
<seb128> kklimonda, ok great, I will sponsor that today
<seb128> Zdra, theorically the libraries should be installable at the same time and you need only 1 gnome-keyring service runnin
<seb128> you might need to restart your session with the new one though
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> oui, et toi ?
<Zdra> seb128, I have no keyring service running :(
<Zdra> because the one from new package does not start
<Zdra> seb128, you uploaded that package in ppa, so I though you were the one to ask... I'll ping rodrigo then :)
<Zdra> (Hm, no, just can't ready ppa page, you did gnome-desktop3, not keyring)
<Zdra> sorry :)
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<seb128> I've not tried or reviewed gnome-keyring3 yet
<seb128> so I can't really comment
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, do we have a clutter policy?  Any opposition to updating to the latest?
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, : clutter policy?
<seb128> "try to stay close to debian"?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I guess I'm asking why we're running an older version, perhaps due to some dx stuff?
<seb128> I think just because nobody updated it yet
<didrocks> robert_ancell: hey, I would say we can even be in sync with debian and drop our patch if they were for unity (all are posted upstream anyway)
<seb128> robert_ancell, is the new unity world I don't think dx uses clutter
<seb128> is -> in
<robert_ancell> didrocks, debian is 1.2, but the stable branch is 1.4
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, that's what I figured
<seb128> robert_ancell, debian is frozen for their next stable
<seb128> some updates go to experimental but they mostly lag behind
<robert_ancell> actually, you might be able to shine some light on this, why do we have packages like clutter-1.0 and gtk2.0 that go outside 1.0.x and 2.0.x?  Why aren't they called clutter-1 and gtk2 or we have gtk2.0 and gtk2.2?
<seb128> robert_ancell, because gtk 2.0 and 2.2 turned to be a stable serie
<seb128> seems like historical reason at the time where the gtk2 was packaged
<seb128> gtk2 and gtk3 would have worked the same
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw do you plan to land some GNOME3 components in natty?
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems the things you work on at the lest likely to depend on other component
<seb128> games, calculator, ... ;-)
<robert_ancell> I'm packaging the new games now, that's why I have to update clutter
<robert_ancell> yeah sure, I'll push gcalctool into natty
<seb128> libclutter-1.0-0: /usr/lib/libclutter-glx-1.0.so.0
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems the clutter version just follows the upstream naming
<robert_ancell> seb128, right
<pitti> seb128: ah, I remember why I didn't upload gdu 2.32
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't add something significant, but it removes all the docs
<pitti> I already attempted it a while ago, and it's in Debian's git
<seb128> in that a bug or wanted?
<pitti> it was explicitly disabled, since it causes some trouble apparently
<pitti> i. e. dropping docs wasn't an unintended side effect
<pitti> it's not really "wanted" as such, of course
<seb128> pitti, was sort of issue do they have? I guess at some point we will need to update anyway
<pitti> I don't know
<pitti> need to ask David, but he's asleep right now
<seb128> no hurry
<seb128> pitti, did we backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-disk-utility/commit/?id=e3ae27c89d66c683b4a37d40df290d0a0cd0aed1?
<pitti> I don't think so
<seb128> I think it's the only commit interesting in 2.32
<seb128> well out of tons of translation  updates and some gtk cleaning
<pitti> seb128: I keep this on my todo list
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> I'll eventually upload 32 to natty
<pitti> but it's in no hurry I think
<seb128> no it's not, I was just wondering if there was a reason to stay behind when the update seems only that crash fix, translation updates and build cleanly with recent gtk versions
<seb128> we are still on the "clean merges and catch up with versions"
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you? had a nice weekend?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti - yeah, i'm good thanks. we had a lot of family and friends around on saturday for my daughters birthday, so it was pretty hectic
<chrisccoulson> did you have a good weekend?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, pretty calm; my wife needs to learn for her exams, so I spent it between cleaning the flat, visiting my grandma, meeting some friends, and watching Big Bang Theory :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it seems you had a nice we ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what exams does your wife need to sit?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it wasn't too bad. had a lot of cleaning up to do on sunday though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: final exams for her geoinformation/surveying studies
<pitti> chrisccoulson: tomorrow is Photogrammetry and Laser Scanning
<chrisccoulson> cool! it sounds intense ;)
<didrocks> 9hey chrisccoulson! Nice week-end for you it seems :)
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks - yeah, pretty busy though
<chrisccoulson> how about you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: nice and sunny. Didn't see a real sunny day for a long time before (maybe Florida was the last time? :))
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, that's the same here too!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you know what we are doing with yelp this cycle? are we going to stick with the current (gecko-based) version, or take the new version instead?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure yet
<seb128> but seems we lean toward getting the new one
<seb128> it's in GNOME3 ppa
<seb128> robert_ancell is working on it
<seb128> it need webkit gtk3 though
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, ok. i wasn't sure whether to spend time porting the current version to gecko 2.0 or not (i want to get everything in main ported this week really)
<seb128> which is fine out of the fact that I'm not sure pitti will like 2 webkit on the CD
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's extreme ;)
<chrisccoulson> what else uses webkit?
<pitti> seb128: well, it's not about me personally -- we are currently 30 MB oversized, and everything we add needs to be compensated
<pitti> so, two webkits really sound like a bad idea indeed
<seb128> pitti, it was just a way to point the CD space consideration
<chrisccoulson> well, it's probably either going to be 2 webkits, or 1 webkit + 1 gecko
<didrocks> (and banshee tomorrow in the seed? + unity on wednesdayâ¦ urghâ¦)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, s-c I guess
<seb128> chrisccoulson, empathy as well
<seb128> shotwell
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. that's quite a few things then
<seb128> rhythmbox
<seb128> yes...
<chrisccoulson> do we know how much space xulrunner takes on the CD compared to webkit?
<chrisccoulson> pitti^^
<seb128> not sure if we can get to use gtk2 rather than gtk3 for the update
<seb128> chrisccoulson, isn't xul need by couchdb?
<robert_ancell> seb128, chrisccoulson, why do we need two webkits?
<seb128> robert_ancell, gtk2 and gtk3?
<robert_ancell> seb128, but what uses -gtk2 on the CD?
<seb128> robert_ancell, software-center, rhythmbox, empathy
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - couchdb is only using spidermonkey. if we used the new yelp, then i'd probably spend some time to split the packaging so we only pull in the bits we need
<seb128> robert_ancell, shotwell
<rodrigo_> hello?
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> ok, back online it seems!!
<chrisccoulson> hi robert_ancell
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<robert_ancell> seb128, damn
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> chrisccoulson: xulrunner: 10 MB, libwebkit: ~ 6 MB
<pitti> chrisccoulson: i. e. if we can actually drop xulrunner with the new webkit, it's a net win
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, hey
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, sorry, not sure if you told me something, my connection dropped
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you know if we could build using gtk2 instead of gtk3?
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks, robert_ancell
<chrisccoulson> pitti - nice. so, it we make an assumption that spidermonkey is around ~2.5MB of that 10MB, then we get a small win
<seb128> rodrigo_, Zdra has comments on the gnome-keyring update
<chrisccoulson> (based on the fact we'd need to keep spidermonkey)
<seb128> rodrigo_, some missing depends and the daemon not running
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ping
<pitti> chrisccoulson: how does yelp+webkit hold up wrt. a11y?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I guess it's possible.  It would be a non-trivial patch though
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm not too sure, that's partly why i asked the original question
<Zdra> rodrigo_, pong
<seb128> pitti, you have been Cc-ed onthose emails
<chrisccoulson> i wasn't sure if a11y was still a blocker for going to the new version
<seb128> pitti, I started a discussion specifically about that last week
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I'm using your gnome-keyring 3 package from gnome3-build package
<Zdra> my observations:
<Zdra> 1) libgcr-dev miss a dep on libgck-dev
<pitti> seb128: right, and there wasn't an obvious "this is ok now" conclusion there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: we pretty much decided that better having an useful version with limited a11y than a slow and useless version
<pitti> ok, good to know
<rodrigo_> Zdra, oh, ok
<seb128> ups, "is better"
<Zdra> 2) gnome-keyring-daemon does not start: $ gnome-keyring-daemon -s
<Zdra> ** Message: couldn't connect to control socket at: /tmp/keyring-s6Zqfv/control: Connection refused
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'd prefer that too, especially seeing as i'm pretty much on my own with getting the current version working with the latest gecko
<chrisccoulson> i guess nobody else is going to try and make that work
<seb128> the gecko version is slow and the documentation format is suboptimal
<seb128> robert_ancell, let's not spend efforts with that then
<Zdra> 3) all apps linked on libgcr does not start anymore, because it is not // installed. For example: $ seahorse
<Zdra> seahorse: error while loading shared libraries: libgcr.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<seb128> let's rather get the new version in using gtk3 and see later on what to do if we need space
<robert_ancell> sure
<Zdra> rodrigo_, that's it :)
<seb128> Zdra, rodrigo_: that seems a real issue in the way g-k has been packaged
<rodrigo_> Zdra, hmm, is the daemon already running when you start it again? it is running ok here
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'll leave yelp off my list of things to do then, and add splitting the xulunner package to my list of things to do instead
<seb128> why did libgcr0 go away?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great
<Zdra> rodrigo_, ps aux | grep keyring --> that returns nothing
<rodrigo_> seb128, it didn't go away
<rodrigo_> it's renamed though
<rodrigo_> it's not libgcr-3
<rodrigo_> I guess we should rename the package also
<Zdra> shouldn't it be libgcr3 ?
<Zdra> yeah, or  -3
<Zdra> oh, .so file indeed has that -3, so it really seems to only be a matter of renaming the package to get it in // of version2
<rodrigo_> libgcr3 implies that 3's the .so version of the lib, so -3 sounds better, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, but why " seahorse: error while loading shared libraries: libgcr.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
<rodrigo_> although the .so version is the same
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's a packaging screwing
<rodrigo_> seb128, it's called now libgcr-3.so*
<seb128> rodrigo_, libgcr0 whould still be on disk
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can't do that
<rodrigo_> seb128, that's the lib name from upstream
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should have libgcr0 and libgcr3 on disk
<seb128> rodrigo_, well the old binary should be installed with the old name
<seb128> as long as thing depends on it
<rodrigo_> yeah, needs renaming to libgcr0-3 or libgcr3
<rodrigo_> which one?
<seb128> libgcr-3-0
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> what is the .so name?
<seb128> libgcr-3.so.0
<seb128> ?
<rodrigo_> .0
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so libgcr-3-0
<seb128> libgcr-3-0 for the binary
<seb128> but shouldn't g-k build both versions?
<seb128> or do you have a new source?
<seb128> robert_ancell, chrisccoulson, pitti: some work that could bring space..
<rodrigo_> it's a new source
<seb128> convert gnome-system-monitor from gtkmm to vala or other
<seb128> it's the only thing keeping gtkmm on the CD
<pitti> oh, interesting
<chrisccoulson> is anybody working on gnome-system-monitor upstream?
<seb128> no
<chrisccoulson> ah, i didn't think so
<seb128> or find another software in universe to replace it
<seb128> g-s-m is not great in any case
<smspillaz> (on the topic of glibmm, here's the test code for compiz http://git.compiz.org/~dbo/compiz-with-glib-mainloop/log/?h=glibmm-experimental)
<seb128> ok, glibmm and pangomm are small
<seb128> the main win would be gtkmm
<seb128> I guess we can keep glibmm
<seb128> smspillaz, ^
<robert_ancell> later all
<rodrigo_> later robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, bye
<smspillaz> seb128: cool
<kklimonda> 10:05     kklimonda | rodrigo_: I'll use it (the branch) to finish _execute_query part of the merge - i.e. add _execute_query and port all other code to use it
<smspillaz> later
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, ah, ok
<seb128> smspillaz, bye
<seb128> pitti, do you want to take a wi on your cd spec about figuring a way to replace g-s-m or port it to non gtkmm rather?
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine
<seb128> ok, great
 * pitti changes
<pitti> RAOF: do you plan to upload the dynamically linked mesa soon? that should help a lot with the current 30 MB oversizedness
<pitti> I did a few uploads to reduce changelogs, but they should only gain some 1.5 MB
<seb128> do we have langpacks to drop for a1 if needed?
<pitti> some
<Zdra> rodrigo_, so about my issue with starting gnome-keyring-daemon, any idea?
<Zdra> I see in /tmp a looot of dir like keyring-XXXX
<rodrigo_> Zdra, only thing that I can think of is some leftover file from a previous keyring daemon, that confuses it
<rodrigo_> Zdra, you have tried it with a clean /tmp?
<Zdra> yep tried with a clean keyring
<rodrigo_> hmm, then that can't be
<Zdra> rodrigo_, note that with clean /tmp the error is slightly different:
<Zdra> $ gnome-keyring-daemon -s
<Zdra> ** Message: couldn't access conrol socket: /tmp/keyring-s6Zqfv/control: No such file or directory
<Zdra> wondering who is supposed to create that file
<rodrigo_> and without the clean /tmp, what message is it?
<rodrigo_> I think it's the daemon itself, let me check
<bigon> Zdra: did you check the permission of /tmp ?
<bigon> ls -ald /tmp
<Zdra>  ** Message: couldn't connect to control socket at: /tmp/keyring-s6Zqfv/control: Connection refused
<Zdra> rodrigo_, ^
<rodrigo_> oh, ok
<Zdra> bigon, of course my /tmp is writable
<Zdra> just that "something" created /tmp/keyring-s6Zqfv/control before and that file isn't readable for keyring-daemon
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you remember the slow launchpad bug we discussed extensively last March? still happens with firefox 3 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/223238
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 223238 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Extremely slow Ajax/Javascript/CSS performance in Firefox 3 using non-free nvidia-glx-new (affects: 20) (dups: 4) (heat: 147)" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> (it's happening in both vesa and nvidia driver)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i remember that. i don't remember what the outcome of the discussion was though
<rodrigo_> Zdra, http://mandriva.598463.n5.nabble.com/Bug-61599-gnome-keyring-NEW-keyring-does-not-start-td3256029.html
<rodrigo_> Zdra, it suggest to use glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas
<rodrigo_> Zdra, can you try?
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you install the schemas?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, launchpad guy tells it's a Firefox bug not handling properly transparency and duplicated icons (looks at the duplicate)
<seb128> it could be that you didn't update the binary to ship it?
<rodrigo_> maybe
<rodrigo_> but it's working for me, so not sure
<rodrigo_> checking
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: can you try to push that upstream? I see a lot of duplicate googling for "launchpad slow firefox nvidia" which aren't related to download page time but rather rendering
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: it affects some other websites as well
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'll have a look at that in a bit
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: thanks :)
<rodrigo_> oh, right, it's working for me because I have the old version, the version in the PPA doesn't show up on the updates!!
<rodrigo_> right, seems it's missing the schemas indeed
<rodrigo_> Zdra, fixing and building locally to fully test it, will upload as soon as it works
<Zdra> rodrigo_, let me restart my session and see if the trick worked :)
<rodrigo_> Zdra, it won't I think, we don't have the schemas in the g-k package
<seb128> rodrigo_, rename the library while you are at it
<seb128> Zdra, you will want to reinstall the official libgcr0
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, fixing all the issues Zdra raised
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will review your ppa uploads today
<seb128> I started on gnome-media the other day
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, coolk
<rodrigo_> seb128, they're all on the ubuntugtk3 branches
<seb128> I think some reviews will be useful
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<Zdra> rodrigo_, seb128: ok
 * rodrigo_ build packages
<Zdra> will try again when new pacakge is in ppa
<Zdra> thanks :D
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Natty/Firefox4/XULRunner20Transition is a nice list of things to work through
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, seems to work, you want to build it locally to make sure or just wait for it to be in the PPA?
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I don't really have much time atm, so I'll be lazy and wait for ppa :)
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, uploading then
<Zdra> rodrigo_, thanks :)
<didrocks> session restat, brb
<didrocks> restart*
<didrocks> bah, firefox + launchpad is just unusable hereâ¦
 * didrocks switches back to chromium
<nisshh> didrocks, hey, do you know if FF 4.0 is going to land in natty? or will old 3.6 be used?
<didrocks> nisshh: FF 4beta7 is already in natty
<nisshh> oh coolies
<seb128> didrocks, get a decent video card ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: well, nvidia is nice TBH, I didn't get any issue for compiz/mutter unlike other cards :p
<seb128> I don't have any issue with compiz on intel
<didrocks> just that a launchpad page makes 4-6 seconds to refreshâ¦
<seb128> "just"
<nisshh> heh, i dont want to try compiz unity on my intel IGP :)
<didrocks> seb128: well, working well with chromium
<nisshh> seb128, really?
<seb128> nisshh, yes, why not?
<seb128> I've been using compiz on intel for like 5 years
<nisshh> seb128, my intel graphics are from 2003 :)
<seb128> on different cards, without any issue
<nisshh> oh, compiz is not the issue
<nisshh> compiz + unity might be :)
<seb128> oh right, I didn't try that yet
<nisshh> the mutter version of compiz ran rather slow on my machine
<nisshh> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, bug #580295 doesn't seem to be a compiz bug
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 580295 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Alt-F2 not working (affects: 44) (dups: 2) (heat: 254)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580295
<seb128> didrocks, you just need to have a running software handling the keybinding
<didrocks> seb128: that's what I'm telling in my latest comment, where did you see I'm telling it's a compiz bug?
<didrocks> seb128: we can tell to compiz "run that on alt+F2"
<seb128> didrocks, by reading sam's comment ;-)
<didrocks> so, not mine :)
<seb128> I just didn't understand your reply
<didrocks> just telling that the workaround sam mentionned works today as there is gnome-panel running, but it won't work when gnome-panel won't be there anymore
<seb128> didrocks, isn't that just a matter to have unity handle the keybinding the way gnome-panel is doing it?
<seb128> didrocks, you want a new application only for that?
<didrocks> no, it will be compiz which will handle the shortcut, we just have to teach it to not rely only on gnome-panel
<seb128> didrocks, wouldn't it make sense to have it in unity?
<didrocks> seb128: that was what we discussed at UDS
<didrocks> seb128: not part of unity, apparently
<didrocks> not sure why, ask mr Patel :)
<seb128> didrocks, such bugs would benefit from reference to specs or uds notes
<seb128> reference like url
<didrocks> seb128: sure, but the note wasn't taken IIRC
<rodrigo_> hmm, is LP down
<rodrigo_> ?
<seb128> rodrigo_, works here
<didrocks> not sure we should discuss that extensively, just do the work :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems it's not your day for internet ;-)
<rodrigo_> no :(
<seb128> didrocks, right, I'm just concerned about adding a new binary or source for such a small thing
<seb128> seems work over what it's worth
<didrocks> seb128: well, the binary can be added to unity packageâ¦
<seb128> or rather seems it would be easier to teach the unity-panel to do it
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I will let njpatel handle that and comment when it's done if I've issue they way it's done ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: right :)
<njpatel> what's up
<njpatel> run dialog?
<seb128> njpatel, just wondering about the run dialog being "dedicated app will be needed."
<njpatel> if we use the gnome-panel one
<njpatel> I might just rip the code out
<njpatel> the backing code, and stick and unity front-end on it
<njpatel> should be do-able, just haven't had the time
<seb128> njpatel, so it will be in unity source right?
<seb128> njpatel, not a new source?
<njpatel> yeah, i think that's what we'll do. didrocks and I spoke about ripping out the gnome-panel one into it's own source, but I think we can do better than that through unity itself
<seb128> njpatel, ok great, I just wanted to mention that I think it's not worth the work of being a different source
<didrocks> well, there are bigger fish now than that issue TBH :)
<njpatel> yep
<seb128> didrocks, right, doesn't prevent to comment on bugs though
<Zdra> rodrigo_, Unpacking libgcr-3-0 (from .../libgcr-3-0_2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu2~build1_amd64.deb) ...
<Zdra> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libgcr-3-0_2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu2~build1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<Zdra>  trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gcr-3/ui/gcr-unlock-options-widget.ui', which is also in package libgcr0 2.92.92.is.2.91.2-0ubuntu1
<seb128> didrocks, but anyway I was just wondering about that, we discussed it enough and I had my reply so let's move on
<didrocks> agreed :)
<seb128> Zdra, I told you that you needed to reinstall the libgcr0 for ubuntu
<seb128> or "from ubuntu" rather
<rodrigo_> Zdra, yes, you have the previous wrong libgcr0, install the official one
<seb128> Zdra, the official one
<rodrigo_> Zdra, 2.92.92.is.2.31.x...
<seb128> Zdra, sudo apt-get install libgrc0/natty
<seb128> or maverick if you use that version
<Zdra> rodrigo_, yay all working fine \o/
<rodrigo_> Zdra, cool
<Zdra> thanks
<rodrigo_> I see an issue here though with bzr ssh auth, not sure if related
<rodrigo_> that doesn't use the keyring at all, right?
<Zdra> rodrigo_, I don't use bzr
<rodrigo_> Zdra, ok, no problem for you then :)
<Zdra> but git works fine with ssh repositories, it's not even asking for the key password
<seb128> rodrigo_, well the ssh agent is in g-k
<rodrigo_> right, so that's been broken then
 * rodrigo_ investigates
<seb128> brb
<cyphermox> good morning!
<mvo> hey cyphermox! good morning
<mvo> cyphermox: had a good weekend ? :)
<cyphermox> hey mvo. yup. finished up half-life 2 :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i've just pushed a change to desktop-file-utils. would you mind sponsoring that?
<ari-tczew> I also need sponsoring, for gnome-settings-daemon in main
<ari-tczew> :)
<mvo> cyphermox: haha, nice!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - people might think there is a conspiracy with the changelog entry though ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, there is no hurry for that to be uploaded right?
<seb128> since firefox is the only one providing those mimetype so far
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, that can be uploaded whenever really. there's no hurry for that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I wanted to review handlers for other applications today
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, I will upload when I've reviewed other handlers then
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> pedro_, ola
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<seb128> mterry, how are you?
<seb128> mterry, had a nice we? ;-)
<pitti> hey mterry
<didrocks> hey cyphermox, mterry
<mterry> seb128, yeah, it was good.  Saw the new Harry Potter  :)
<mterry> pitti, didrocks: hello!
<pitti> seb128: Jani raised a good point: gparted uses gtkmm, so dropping g-s-monitor won't  help CD space wise
<didrocks> cyphermox: did you ping upstream again to review your evolution patch? did you get feedback?
<pedro_> hello seb128
<pitti> cyphermox: hello, how are you? had a good weekend?
<pitti> cyphermox: do you plan to merge fontconfig? (not urgent, just want to know if "at all")
<didrocks> hey pedro_
<pedro_> salut didrocks
<seb128> pitti, oh right, I ran the rdepends on an installed system not on the livecd
<mvo> hey mterry
<seb128> mterry, nice, how was it? ;-)
<mterry> hi
<mterry> seb128, was a very good rendition of the (first half of) the book.  So if you liked the books, you'd like the movie.
<seb128> great
<seb128> pedro_, bug #678201 you might want to upstream if you get the issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678201 in librsvg (Ubuntu) "nautlius lockup with jpg-named svgs referring to svgs (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678201
<seb128> mterry, do you have enough tasks to keep busy? ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, ok, looking at it
 * pedro_ going crazy with mago test cases
<seb128> pedro_, oh, how is mago working for you?
<cyphermox> pitti, I hadn't planned about it, but it's a good point, needs to be done (I can get to it a little later today, but I will need sponsoring)
<cyphermox> didrocks, pinging now, I hadn't but it would be good
<pedro_> seb128, it is working fine here. we are writing test cases with it for testing natty apps
<ari-tczew> didrocks: could you sponsor SRU for me? :)
<pitti> cyphermox: ah, I can help out with sponsoring
<cyphermox> thx
<didrocks> ari-tczew: not today, but #ubuntu-devel has a patch pilot to review your patch :)
<seb128> ari-tczew, you seem to be motivated which is nice but there is no need to keep pinging on IRC for sponsoring
<ari-tczew> patch pilot? wtf
<seb128> ari-tczew, there is a sponsoring queue and people work on it when they have time
<mterry> seb128, yeah for now
<seb128> ari-tczew, the IRC pinging doesn't free time so are not really useful, and as didrocks pointed there is a patch pilot doing review every day now
<ari-tczew> seb128: heh, I looked on #ubuntu-motu and they told me that ubuntu desktop team should upload this one, so I'm asking... please don't dispose me
<seb128> mterry, ok, shame :p
<mterry> heh
<seb128> mvo, hey
<seb128> bug #678201
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678201 in librsvg (Ubuntu) "nautlius lockup with jpg-named svgs referring to svgs (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678201
<seb128> mvo, ^ seems ari-tczew would like to have this reviewed,sponsored
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bug #626379
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 626379 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_main_context_dispatch() (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 48)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/626379
<seb128> mvo, ^ that one rather
 * seb128 kicks linux copy
<seb128> ok, so tasks that need to be picked
<seb128> - the appmenu-gtk source should probably have a gtk3 build
<seb128> mterry, ^ still pointing it for the day you are done with your current tasks and if nobody claim it before you
<seb128> otherwise glade-3 would be nice to update to 3.7
<jcastro> hi didrocks - I found a problem this weekend that I think we should fix before you switch to unity by default. If you're on a laptop and in unity there's no way to graphically use the network.
<cyphermox> seb128, glade-3 I could do
<seb128> jcastro, hey
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, so it's yours
<jcastro> didrocks: so I was thinking perhaps some instructions on how to use nm-cli or something?
<didrocks> jcastro: yeah, bug already logged IIRC
<cyphermox> I already did some amounts of that work trying to fix something for synaptic by a newer glade
<jcastro> didrocks: that we can go ahead and announce with it
<didrocks> jcastro: can you raise that on #ayatana?
<jcastro> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the startup notification is broken on firefox, is that known?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, i didn't know that before
<seb128> the same way it was broken before lucid
<seb128> it seems to be back in the new firefox
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how do you start it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I always get a "starting firefox" task in the wnck applet there
<seb128> which stays until timeout
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i use docky, so i don't get the startup notification anyway
<chrisccoulson> but
<chrisccoulson> i can see why it doesn't work already ;)
<seb128> great ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no hurry you don't have to fix it now, in an hour will do
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, you have an e-d-s and an evo bug assigned to you
<seb128> those are upstream patches backport requests that brian opened
<seb128> didrocks, could you or cyphermox try to get that in the sru queue?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, re: empathy 2.32.2.  I am going to get it done, i forgot to assign myself to it.
<seb128> bcurtiswx, hey, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-4.0.head/revision/702
<seb128> bcurtiswx, no hurry the previous upload still need some days before going through
<didrocks> seb128: for maverick SRU
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you real master firefox now ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> seb128: I won't have time, reallyâ¦
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, well that's sort of why I pinged there including cyphermox
<didrocks> and yeah, I saw that in the week-end in my bug log :)
<seb128> didrocks, he can maybe do the update and you can do the upload?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, im having one issue , a patch fails (20_libindicate), so i go bzr bd-do to quilt push -f and the first one fails.. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
<cyphermox> seb128, didrocks, fair enough, just added it to my list for today
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it might need to be updated for the new version
<didrocks> seb128: sureâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, cyphermox: thanks
<didrocks> I would rather we can get evolution 2.32 in nattyâ¦ but if upstream doesn't respond, I'll try it there and include as a distro patch (as it's migration stuff, we can miss something)
<cyphermox> didrocks, it's a very minimal patch too
<nerd_bloke> clear
<bcurtiswx> seb128, the patch be updated?  I am trying to update it by pushing the previous ones with quilt push -f , i will fix the bad patch, add it, then refresh the patch and try the build again.. but the quilt push -f fails now on the very first patch
<bcurtiswx> instead on the bzr bd when it failed on the 5th patch in
<nerd_bloke> Would the following bug be suitable for a papercut? It is basic functionality of Launchpad, not the desktop:
<nerd_bloke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/68277
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 68277 in malone ""newest first" doesn't sort bugs correctly (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bcurtiswx> nerd_bloke, no.  We're focused on ubuntu bugs, not LP ones
<cyphermox> nerd_bloke, I think this question goes better in #launchpad, and since it's launchpad, probably not so much in context for the papercut project
<seb128> bcurtiswx, when do you run the quilt command?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you probably want to bzr bd-do then quilt push
<bcurtiswx> bzr bd-do then i quilt push
<nerd_bloke> cyphermox: thanks
<seb128> bcurtiswx, can you pastebin the error you get?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, sure
<bcurtiswx> seb128, for the bzr bd , this http://paste.ubuntu.com/535215/ is the log where the error happens.. my next paste will be the bzr bd -do
<bcurtiswx> seb128,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/535216/
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<kenvandine> did you see my gtk patches?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, did you export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches?
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, I saw your upload and your failed gtk3 upload yes
<seb128> kenvandine, does that fix the dbusmenu build?
<kenvandine> lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gtk/ubuntugtk3
<kenvandine> yeah, mind sponsoring that?
<bcurtiswx> no, is there a way to save that so I don't have to every time?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, ^^
<seb128> kenvandine, I will do
<kenvandine> that at least fixes dbusmenu failures outside of dbusmenu
<seb128> bcurtiswx, set it in your .profile or something?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, .bashrc ?
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine: So you didn't become core-dev? why? lack of votes?
<bilalakhtar> or lack of voters?
<kenvandine> lack of voters
<kenvandine> doing it via email
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK, got it.  seems bzr bd doesn't catch fuzz while doing it manually catched fuzz
<seb128> bcurtiswx, should work
<seb128> bcurtiswx, right, the new source format doesn't like fuzzy diffs
<kenvandine> 2 did abstain though, they feel like there is a problem with package sets, maybe not inclusive enough
<bcurtiswx> seb128, is it going to "like fuzz" in the future?
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> I think it might do it on purpose and not as a bugg
<seb128> bu
<seb128> bug
<seb128> to force you to refresh the changesets
<seb128> the fuzzy stat can introduce bugs sometime
<seb128> it might happen that it applies to the wrong part of the code
<seb128> if different parts are similar
<seb128> so it's usually better to refresh the changesets
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK.  now that i added the export I should be able to get these quicker
<seb128> right
<rodrigo_> ok, fixed the keyring+ssh/gpg problem
<rodrigo_> an easy one fortunately :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, what was it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, missing a renamed binary, so /usr/lib/gnome-keyring/gnome-keyring-prompt links to that gnome-keyring-prompt-3-0, which wasn't on the package
<rodrigo_> is there any way to raise warnings when some stuff installed by the upstream tarball is not in any .install file?
<seb128> rodrigo_, you could run dh_install --list-missing
<seb128> in the build directory after build
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, cool
<asac> everyone: tomorrow 1500 UTC is public multimedia plan review https://wiki.linaro.org/Releases/1105/PublicPlanReview ... note down in your calendar, send delegates, join #linaro-meeting and dial in!! thanks for your interest
<rodrigo_> hmm, the packages in the gnome3 ppa don't show up in updates
<seb128> rodrigo_, what updates?
<rodrigo_> seb128, the latest g-c-c for instance
<rodrigo_> I can't apt-get upgrade
<rodrigo_> it
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you run "sudo apt-get update; apt-cache policy gnome-control-center"
<rodrigo_> g-s-d 2.91.3 neither
<rodrigo_> yes, already did, doesn't show up the new version
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you pastebin the apt-cache policy
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> http://pastebin.com/h868tmjJ
<rodrigo_> and the ppa has 2.91.2-0ubuntu5~build2
<rodrigo_> I get this on update:
<rodrigo_> W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net natty Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 2CC98497A1231595
<rodrigo_> but that shouldn't be a problem, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, should not no
<rodrigo_> right, I have the same issue with other ppa repos, and the upgrades show up correctly
<seb128> rodrigo_, weird, can you copy the sudo apt-get update log?
<rodrigo_> which log?
<Sarvatt> pitti: requesting syncs for the majority of the X drivers to save you some space in case you were planning more no change uploads :) we've been updating them in experimental
<seb128> rodrigo_, run sudo apt-get update
<seb128> rodrigo_, copy the stdout to pastebin
<rodrigo_> seb128, http://pastebin.com/37iS6apb
<pitti> Sarvatt: not right now; I just went through a current natty live CD and checked for the biggest changelogs there
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, weird, the upgrades don't show up on the virtual machine I have, but they do on my real machine
<rodrigo_> so something's wrong on the virtual machine
<Laney> asac: where are we with the banshee mir? (sorry if you were pinged about this before)
<asac> Laney: last i know was that we were waiting for some refactoring still ... have to re-review
<Laney> I think it should be good to look at again now
<rodrigo_> so, how do I clean apt's cache? I've used purge, etc, but it still can't see the new packages, not only on the PPA, but in the other repos also
<rodrigo_> seb128, ^^
<seb128> rodrigo_, the indexes you mean?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> they are in /var/lib/apt
<seb128> lists
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> hmm, this reminds me of a bug in maemo's apt, which forced me to remove the indexes there a few times
<rodrigo_> ok, a lot of upgrades now!
<seb128> rodrigo_, weird
<seb128> it's all mvo's fault ;-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> is grep-dctrl working for other people in natty?
<mvo> seb128: hm?
 * mvo hugs kiwinote (in absence)
<mvo> hey glatzor - nice to see you \o/
<glatzor> evening mvo!
<glatzor> mvo, how are you?
<and471> heya glatzor & mvo & vish & tremolux & mpt & nessita
<and471> nessita, you free for another question re testing?
<mvo> glatzor: I'm good - how are you?
<tremolux> and471: hey!  \o
<and471> :)
<mvo> hey and471
<glatzor> mvo, a lot of work to be done - as ever ... :)
<glatzor> hey and471, still in the same buisiness?
<and471> hehe, yup, lots of homework :/
<glatzor> mvo, I am off now! see you
<glatzor> mvo, have a nice evening!
<glatzor> greetings to you family
<mvo> glatzor: thanks :
<mvo> too late
<pitti> good night everyone
<chrisccoulson> good night pitti
<mvo> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, empathy has an option for  --with-ca-file="" or --without-ca-file now (part of the changes).. im just guessing to use --without-ca-file because IDK where one would be.. what would you recommend
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, this is for 2.32.2
<seb128> mvo, hm? oh, it was rodrigo_, he had to delete apt indexes manually to get apt-get update to update
<mvo> seb128, rodrigo_: from /var/lib/apt/lists/partial ?
<rodrigo_> mvo, I removed all under /var/lib/apt/lists, not only /partial
<seb128> mvo, he said that apt was not seeing updates even after an apt-get update
<rodrigo_> yeah, removing those files and running update again fixed it
<mvo> rodrigo_: apt is using "if-modified-since", if for some reason your local timestamps got corrupted that might cause such a effect
<rodrigo_> hmm, the timestamps on the files in /var/lib/apt/lists?
<mvo> yes
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, I'll check next time, this is on a virtual machine, so maybe
<rodrigo_> mterry, ping
<mvo> thanks rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> huh, launchpad just rejected a PPA upload of mine because my local tarball has a different md5sum compared to the one already in the PPA, despite the fact I build with -sd, so there is no information about the tarball in my sources.changes
<chrisccoulson> launchpad is going to make me download the whole tarball!
<chrisccoulson> :(
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, hi
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> it's in the .dsc. perhaps it's not a bug after all
<jcastro> mterry: The latest bamf and co fixed this for me, do you still see it? bug #677559
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677559 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Application expose mode doesn't work (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677559
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, before --with/without-ca-file was added to empathy.  would --without-ca-file been default ?
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, yeah we default on Debian/Ubuntu's ca file
<bcurtiswx> cassidy, so we do need one.. where's it located ?
<cassidy> bcurtiswx, /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<bcurtiswx> --with-ca-file="/etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt"  thanks :)
<mterry> jcastro, testing
<mterry> rodrigo_, pong
<mterry> jcastro, didn't seem to change anything.  I updated, killed bamfdaemon, and restarted unity.  Anything else I shouldhave done?
<jcastro> I don't think so, it seems to work fine for me (other than it missing the special effect when you move your mouse over the window you want to select)
<rodrigo_> mterry, hi, so I've been looking at the python problem we talked about the other day, but have tried several things, but can't find a way to fix it for this: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-menus/2_30_5_release
<rodrigo_> mterry, have to go now, but could you please have a look at it when you have time, please?
<rodrigo_> ok, really need to go now, bbl
<mterry> rodrigo_, bye
<mterry> didrocks1, you said you followed a wiki page instruction for the copyright format?  Which wiki?  Should be updated to point to latest spe
<mterry> c
<didrocks> mterry: the one listed as the first line in the old copyright file
<mpt> hello and471
<mterry> didrocks, oh yeah.  I can't update that.  :)  It's an old version of the spec, before it moved to the DEP process, AFAIK
<didrocks> mterry: oh ok
 * hyperair pokes asac 
<mterry> rodrigo_, filed merge https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/ubuntu/natty/gnome-menus/python-fix/+merge/41499
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/678330 all set for SRU and sponsor
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678330 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy 2.32.2 Stable Release Update Request (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<chmrr> Anyone around who can look at merging https://code.launchpad.net/~broder/gnome-terminal/fix-37767/+merge/39887 ?
<baptistemm> chmrr: why don't you make the patch reviewed by th upstream author ?
<chmrr> baptisetemm: Do you mean the original author of the patch, who submitted the ubuntu bug originally, or the upstream maintainer who accepted it?
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, my SSH key isn't being unlocked when i log in now in natty
<chrisccoulson> does anyone else see that?
<dobey> chrisccoulson: that started happening to me in maverick
<dobey> chrisccoulson: and i don't see any way in the dialog to tell it to remember the password in the keyring
<rodrigo_> mterry, thanks!
<mterry> rodrigo_, np, hope it works.  Like I said, I didn't actually test it.  :-/
<rodrigo_> mterry, testing it right now
<mterry> rodrigo_, but it's the same code as I used to get by it
<rodrigo_> mterry, yay, it built ok
<rodrigo_> checking now the .deb's
<rodrigo_> yay
<rodrigo_> mterry, thanks!
<mterry> rodrigo_, np
<rodrigo_> mterry, if you can review -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-menus/2_30_5_release/+merge/41520 I'll upload it as soon as it's approved
<mterry> rodrigo_, I don't see the debian/control change you mention in the changelog
<rodrigo_> mterry, yeah, removing it from changelog, I think I edited this changelog when working on another package
<mterry> rodrigo_, did control.in eat them?
<mterry> ah, k
<rodrigo_> hmm, maybe
<rodrigo_> let me see
<rodrigo_> no, not really, it doesn't need to depend on that
<rodrigo_> as I said, it seems I edited this changelog when working on gnome-applets
<rodrigo_> ok, pushed the change in changelog
<mterry> rodrigo_, well, then I guess I rubber-stamp it because it's basically exactly what I gave you
<mterry> :)
<rodrigo_> mterry, yeah, only an update in the changelog to update to 2.30.5
<rodrigo_> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> mterry, are you approving the branch, or should I just merge and upload?
<mterry> rodrigo_, oh, I forgot to push the approve button
<rodrigo_> mterry, :-D
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, good evening
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, good morning :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so, does new compiz seem really crashy to you?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I'm still running natty in a vm, so I haven't tried it yet.  I'm thinking of updating soon though
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, please do
<rickspencer3> I
<rickspencer3> think we're all a bit counting on you to help them get compiz ready quickly
<rickspencer3> !
<rickspencer3> help me robert_ancell, you're our only hope
<robert_ancell> heh
<robert_ancell> ok, bye bye stable desktop, dist-upgrade time for me...
<rickspencer3> bye bye robert_ancell!
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell, i can't believe you're not running natty already!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, I've been through these releases before :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-23
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, no natty yet.  wow. :P
<robert_ancell> bcurtiswx, in 38 minutes... I've been running it in a VM though
<bcurtiswx> robert_ancell, i did that for a while in previous releases, but with all these graphics changes, VM's make testing and seeing the changes tough
<bcurtiswx> like having unity change to default, or the switch eventually to wayland
<RAOF> pitti: Bryce has some mesa packaging changes for Wayland, and I was going to roll them up.  That's âsometime this weekâ, though, so I could do mesa now as space is tight.
 * robert_ancell reboots, you may or may not see me back here soon
<RAOF> That seems like it's worked ok :)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I see what you mean about crashing... compiz crashes on startup
<rickspencer3> :/
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, under Unity, or just alone?
<robert_ancell> bonus feature of the menubar being able to drag the window - you can work witthout a window manager
<robert_ancell> it's just in standard gnome, but I didn't seem to have a unity option in gdm
<rickspencer3> compiz works "ok" for me, but on Friday, Unity crashed it too much
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I think you need to install unity, than turn on the plugin in that compiz plugin manager thing
<robert_ancell> If I run compiz --replace, I get "couldn't load plugin 'decoration'", and similar for png, svg, compozite, neg
<robert_ancell> unity appears to be installed
<rickspencer3> huh
<rickspencer3> that's pretty bad
<rickspencer3> what graphics hardware?
<rickspencer3> I'm on i965, and I even get wobbly windows
<robert_ancell> ATI M92
<RAOF> r... 300?
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<Sarvatt> it's completely busted on the nvidia blob too http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, RAOF can you guys help the compiz team get to the bottom of these crashers
<rickspencer3> ?
<RAOF> Wow, that's surprising.
<rickspencer3> at least make sure their are bugs filed
<rickspencer3> but whatever you can do to resolve these quickly
<robert_ancell> will try
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what's the best way to confirm my video driver?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: âglxinfo | grep rendererâ is fairly good.
<RAOF> Xorg.0.log has more details, though.
<robert_ancell> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R600 (RV710 9553) 20090101  TCL DRI2
<RAOF> Ooookay.
<RAOF> What's the compiz error you're getting?
<robert_ancell> the first one is the failure to load the decoration plugin
<robert_ancell> and eventually it segfaults
<Sarvatt> yeah gtk-window-decorator segfaults quite often here, hit 37 segfaults in a 5 minute period the other day but haven't had time to look at whats going on
<robert_ancell> dmesg shows the segfault is in libopengl.so
<Sarvatt> takes out window decorations every time it does
<RAOF> Why do *none* of my systems *ever* exhibit these widespread bugs? :)
<cyphermox> howdy!
<robert_ancell> what hw do you have?  This is a standard Dell Studio, about 1 year old
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: because you have the perfect 50%/bell curve system? :P
<cyphermox> robert_ancell, dell studio hybrid or dell studio?
<RAOF> GM45, Radeon evergreen has the moste testing.
<RAOF> (by me)
<robert_ancell> cyphermox, standard Dell Studio 1555, bought off the website
<cyphermox> ah,
<RAOF> Sarvatt: That xsession backtrace isn't nVidia related; it's a libbamf problem.
<Sarvatt> I meant it was busted on my machine with the blob, sorry :)
<RAOF> 'sok :)
<robert_ancell> ok, I'm going to enable fglrx and see if that solves it
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so I guess I'm going to be a guinea pig for drivers from you?
<RAOF> Hm.  I'm not running from the Unity PPA anymore; this is stock Natty packages.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I guess so!
<RAOF> You're probably on i386, aren't you?
<robert_ancell> amd64
<RAOF> Woot!
<robert_ancell> ok, installed, I'll be back
<Sarvatt> the gtk-window-decorator segfaults will be in ~/.xsession-errors
<Sarvatt> ah too late
<RAOF> Hm.  Has the settings migration code landed in compiz?
<RAOF> That might explain my differing results; I switched before the migration code and manually transferred my settings.
<Sarvatt> I had to delete ~/.config/compiz* to get a desktop up on both natty systems
<RAOF> Unity likes r600g quite a lot, it seems.  Ah.  Except for blur.
<RAOF> Hm.  Given Robert's continued absence I'm guessing Unity doesn't like fglrx much.
<robert_ancell> very weird, my bios took *minutes* to start.  Running fglrx now, but same problem
<RAOF> Got a ~/.xsession-errors for us?
<robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/
<robert_ancell> weird, when I run firefox it seals the keyboard focus from all applications
<robert_ancell> steals
<RAOF> Hm.  Ok.  My compiz doesn't use the gconf backend, it uses ini.
<RAOF> Hm.  And I *don't* load the decoration plugin.
<RAOF> This suggests that old gconf settings might be a problem.
<Sarvatt> sure you aren't using a PPA version? :)
<RAOF> Installed: 1:0.9.2.1+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3
<RAOF> Yup, I am now sure :)
<robert_ancell> nope, standard 1:0.9.2.1+glibmainloop-0ubuntu3
<Sarvatt> Backend     : gconf here too
<Amaranth> RAOF: To be fair blur does require the incredibly advanced capabilities of... fragment programs
<Amaranth> RAOF: Don't try to enable to gconf backend
<RAOF> Amaranth: I wasn't going to; I was going to get them to try enabling the ini backend.
<Amaranth> The gconf backend will pump the glib mainloop if ccp doesn't detect the glib plugin loaded
<Amaranth> But core also pumps the glib mainloop
<Amaranth> So... deadlock
<RAOF> robert_ancell, Sarvatt: So, why not try setting âiniâ in ~/.config/compiz-1/compizconfig/config
<Sarvatt> why is it not the default if it has problems?
<Amaranth> The ini backend is the default
<Sarvatt> has problems otherwise
<robert_ancell> RAOF, looks like you were right, I did a recursive-unset on my old compiz settings and now it works
<Amaranth> If core.xml specifies the ccp plugin it'll use the ini backend by default and ccsm will still work
<RAOF> Amaranth: Where's core.xml?
<robert_ancell> old settings:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/535414/
<Amaranth> RAOF: /usr/share/compiz/
<robert_ancell> there is also some sort of redraw error when I switch windows.  The window doesn't seem to redraw until it is resized
<robert_ancell> I'm going to disable fglrx and come back
<Sarvatt> well, fresh maverick install -> upgrade to natty = using gconf
<Amaranth> Sarvatt: For compiz? That's not actually possible
<RAOF> Well, we've got two datapoints suggesting that it's not only possible, but it happens.
<Amaranth> 0.9 uses a different path for the compizconfig settings file so the gconf setting won't carry over and if it somehow did compiz would deadlock
<RAOF> Check out their xsession-errors - http://paste.ubuntu.com/535412/ , for example.
<Amaranth> OOo is currently eating my machine
<Amaranth> Might take me a minute :)
<Amaranth> Oh, someone is using unsupported third party scripts to start compiz
<Amaranth> That's compiz-check or whatever
<Amaranth> I have no idea what it might break
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure that's not compiz-check.
<Amaranth> That's not compiz itself and the shell script we used to use didn't print anything like that either
<RAOF> My /usr/bin/compiz is a binary file, and *I* get that output.
<Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xsession-errors.txt that one was a fresh maverick install and update to natty immediately after
<RAOF> Except with âiniâ, and it works.
<Amaranth> arg, did smspillaz change something?
<RAOF> I suspect the answer is âyesâ
<robert_ancell> ok, so compiz boots now, but still no unity..
<RAOF> Have you enabled it yet?
<robert_ancell> isn't it supposed to be automatic?
<RAOF> I'm not sure; I don't think that switch has been flicked.
<Amaranth> Ok, OOo seems to have given up
<RAOF> Amaranth: But not relieved it's vice-like grip on your system? :)
<Amaranth> It's using 874MB of RAM
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You know how to enable it, right?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, nope
<RAOF> Fire up ccsm (installing it if necessary, it's in the compizconfig-settings-manager package) and scroll down to enable the unity plugin; it's right at the bottom.
<RAOF> Hm.  I may have broken this mac bluetooth mouse while trying to clean the scroll-ball.  Boo.
<Amaranth> Is this a PPA?
<RAOF> No - packages straight out of Natty.
<TheMuso> I use a fresh user for compiz/unity testing. :)
<RAOF> Which might be why you haven't seen problems :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Just a suggestion. :)
<Amaranth_> I upgraded from 0.8 to 0.9 just fine
<Amaranth> I think I've killed kword too
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Now i'm running some weird broken hybrid of GNOME and unity, uh, help?
<RAOF> Hah.
<RAOF> In what way is it borken?
<RAOF> Oh, you've still got some gnome-panels?
<robert_ancell> well, I have a gnome-panel underneath the unity panel, and the nautilus bg.  i.e. is gnome-session aware this is unity?
<RAOF> The nautilus BG is intentional, AFAIK.  I don't think gnome-session is aware, and it shouldn't be, because the Unity you've got is incomplete.
<RAOF> (If you didn't have a gnome-panel running, Alt-F2 wouldn't work, and so you wouldn't be able to launch anything not already on your Unity panel)
<RAOF> I presume the next Unity release will actually allow one to launch arbitrary apps, by fixing the places :)
<Amaranth> You know, unity is actually the way compiz was meant to be used
 * robert_ancell shakes hand at rickspencer3 for suggesting this :)
<Amaranth> Trying unity?
<robert_ancell> it seems a little broken at the moment...
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Oooh, ooh!  Could you try alt-tabbing?
<Amaranth> Uh oh
<robert_ancell> RAOF, thanks for that...
<Amaranth> Did it crash?
<RAOF> Ah, so that's not just broken on Evergreen, then?
<robert_ancell> everything broke, I've manually started metacity now
<RAOF> :)
<robert_ancell> my gnome-panel has slowly lost all its applets, it keeps complaining they're all broken
<robert_ancell> ok, I'm off for lunch, be back in a bit
<Amaranth> Whoa, kword has loaded my 23MB doc file and is only using 359MB of RAM
<RAOF> robert_ancell: If you'd like alt-tab to work, the mesa in http://cooperteam.net/Packages should work.
<Amaranth> Oh, but it's only actually loaded 5 pages of it so far...
<bcurtiswx> unity doesn't work for me either
<bcurtiswx> ATI Radeon graphics card
<bcurtiswx> the ubuntu logo supposedly would be clickable to show another screen.. but ATM it does nothing
<bcurtiswx> as soon as i close the ccsm it crashes
<RAOF> Well, the Ubuntu logo doing nothing is a known deficiency, at least according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuide
<TheMuso> RAOF: yes I originally had crashes with compiz, smspillaz suggested I turn off mipmapping for the switcher plugins, which helped. Running a RV770 here.
<cyphermox> jasoncwarner1, to answer your question, I was able to install compizconfig-settings-manager then enable the unity plugin in ccsm
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, now just get it to stop crashing!
<cyphermox> I would think it's due to be enabled by default eventually, but it more or less work... though I now lose NM-applet if it's enabled :'(
<RAOF> TheMuso: Ok, thanks for that.  I thought the mipmapping problem was restricted to Evergreen cards, which aren't going to be well supported by r600c anyway (and r600g works fine)
<RAOF> I see I should start fixing that mipmapping stuff.
<jasoncwarner1> cyphermox: thanks...installing now...
<bcurtiswx> well, Is unity really planned on being default by alpha1 ?
<bcurtiswx> doesn't seem like a good idea IMO if its trie
<bcurtiswx> true*
<RAOF> I don't know; #ayatana probably does.
<bcurtiswx> OK :) thx
<TheMuso> I'd also say that Didrocks would have a better idea of that as well.
<RAOF> I'd *hope* he's asleep now, though.
<TheMuso> I know didrocks and DX were discussing technical aspects of the fallback plan last night.
<bcurtiswx> yeah, hes over in the UK, right?
<TheMuso> France
<bcurtiswx> then yes, he's halfway through his night by now
<robert_ancell> grr, my visa card must have got copied at UDS - it got cancelled due to a dodgy US transaction
<RAOF> Time to go over my transaction statement, is it? :(
<robert_ancell> well, I guess it could have been copied from any country, but it never hurts
<TheMuso> I already had that happen to me late last year, don't want it to happen again, so yeah, good idea.
<TheMuso> ...and to think we are going to the same hotel as UDS Lucid for the sprint in January.
<TheMuso> Which is where I suspect the copy was made..
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> RAOF: mesa> it's not "this week" urgent, but would be nice for alpha-1
<didrocks> good morning
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, a bit sleepy still :)
<didrocks> :)
<rodrigo_> but fine otherwise, you?
<didrocks> I'm fine thanks, it's snowing a lot outside :)
<rodrigo_> oh, cool!
<didrocks> yeah \o/
<rodrigo_> do you ski?
<didrocks> I ski, but not a lot (like 3/5 days per year), enough to enjoy it :)
<didrocks> you?
<ara> didrocks, show? already? where are you based?
<didrocks> ara: I'm currently near Annecy (in the Alps), will be finally based in Lyon next month :)
<ara> didrocks, that makes sense then :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, I do
<didrocks> ara: right :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I asked because usually people hate snow, except if they ski :)
<rodrigo_> hey ara
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ahah, that's more or less true. People especially hate snow in towns (it's true that it's getting dirty very quick)
<ara> hey rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> ara, no snow yet in Berlin?
<ara> rodrigo_, not yet, but they say it will snow this week
<rodrigo_> ara, cool, although I guess you don't like it much?
<ara> rodrigo_, I will love it! I never lived in a city where it snows!
<rodrigo_> ah cool then
<ara> rodrigo_, I might hate in two months, maybe... but right now, let it show!
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> hey there!
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, ara
<seb128> how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, fine, thanks, you?
<ara> hey seb128, fine thanks! yourself?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-applets/no-more-deprecated/+merge/41494
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh nice, I wanted to check where you got with those
<rodrigo_> seb128, don't approve it though, the invest applet crashes with gtk2 gir and hangs with gtk3 gir
<seb128> is that new?
<rodrigo_> so trying to find where the problem is, I think it's the gtk2 gir
<rodrigo_> seb128, I could submit just the null applet part, but I've been holding this to submit both at the same time
<rodrigo_> seb128, what do you mean new?
<seb128> did it work at some point and got broken by a gtk or gir update?
<rodrigo_> no, nver worked for me
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> I asked in #introspection, and the suggestion was that it seemed gtk2 gir was broken
<seb128> why did you comment the silent applet cleaning patch from the serie?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, still needing a rebase
<seb128> rodrigo_, we don't want to depends on gtk3 yet though
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> and it can't use gtk3, libpanel-applet-3 is gtk2
<seb128> right
<rodrigo_> seb128, maybe you can try it to see if you have the same crash as I do?
<seb128> I can
<rodrigo_> running /usr/lib/gnome-applets/invest-applet should give you the error
<seb128> hum, micahg, interesting email on the list
<seb128> not sure I like issues being pointed by Cc-ing other people before asking the concerned team though
<micahg> seb128: I'm sorry, i wasn't sure what to do
<micahg> seb128: I'll be sure to check with you next time I see an issue
<rodrigo_> seb128, can you tell me which package the files in /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0/gi/overrides/ belong to?
<rodrigo_> they seem to not belong to any package, and that's where the applet fails
<rodrigo_> seb128, or python2.7
<seb128> rodrigo_, should be python-gobject
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> micahg, thanks
<seb128> micahg, the people have been added to the team to be able to use the GNOME3 ppa
<huats> morning
<seb128> micahg, we never really excerced the policy you pointed and I forgot about it
<micahg> seb128: right, I figured as much, can I suggest separating out the uploaders from the PPA/bzr committers, we do this in the Mozilla team which allowed me to contribute heavily well before getting upload rights
<seb128> is there any way to do that or do we need a new ppa team then?
<micahg> seb128: no, you can keep the current team, just create a new uploaders team
<seb128> well then we need a new team
<micahg> we should probably ask cjwatson first, but I think that's the way to go
<seb128> we can't have different acls for code and ppa in the same team right?
<micahg> seb128: right, AFAIK
<seb128> ok, need some discussions
<seb128> well I though in the current situation we don't really need that
<seb128> we can just probably get rodrigo_ and mterry approved for the team
<micahg> right, I guess it depends how green the contributors generally are to packaging when they're hired
<seb128> micahg, well that ppa is the official GNOME3 one
<seb128> the things landing there will go to natty
<seb128> we probably want to give upload rights to people who should be trusted for uploads to ubuntu
<micahg> right, but there's a difference between trusted to not be malicious and trusted to not break things
<seb128> in this case we want both for the ppa
<RAOF> Like packaging a gcr with a new ABI but not changing the package name?
<RAOF> :)
<micahg> heh
<seb128> right
<seb128> rodrigo_ still need some reviewing
<seb128> rodrigo_, no offense to your work btw
<rodrigo_> yes, I only upload/Merge stuff after approval
<seb128> it's just that such issues are sort of basic library packaging rules
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, no offense taken :)
<RAOF> Libraries are hard.
<seb128> well basis are not so hard
<seb128> like having the naming matching the soname
<seb128> checking abi breakages is harder
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, more toolchain breakage! http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59475228/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.xulrunner-1.9.2_1.9.2.13%2Bbuild1%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: It must be so much fun to have a package so sensitive to build breakage ;)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I saw a similar break in the PPA for xul 2.0 that I thought you fixed
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, yeah, it's a lot of fun ;)
<chrisccoulson> micahg, i don't think i fixed anything like this yet
<pitti> ah, ccsm is indeed quite nice -- I get focus-follows-mouse again, plus my keybindings, plus my 2x2 workspaces
<pitti> still doesn't solve the upgrade problem, though
<seb128> pitti, how did you get your keybindings?
<pitti> seb128: the one I'm missing most is Alt+B to lower the current window
<seb128> pitti, the recent update which activates gnomecompat and vpswitcher should solve that?
<pitti> seb128: no, they didn't
<seb128> you had to change the backend to gconf for it?
<pitti> when I switched from metacity to compiz again this morning, everything was still broken
<pitti> seb128: I did enable the gnome compat plugin manually before, though
<seb128> well that's different from upgrading
<seb128> your config can't be consider as upgradable
<didrocks> there is no way to change the list of default plugins once you are upgraded
<seb128> you got in a custom state by fixing things manually
<pitti> right, just now
<didrocks> even before, it doesn't change the list of plugins
<pitti> but before that I only touched ccsm once to manually enable "gnome compat"
<didrocks> so, the list of plugin is always copied and considered "custom"
<seb128> well what didrocks says is that the migration happens once when you install 0.9
<seb128> so if you upgraded to a buggy version you are screwed
<seb128> next updates will not fix it for you
<pitti> I see
<pitti> so if I'd restore my maverick configuration now and upgrade again, it should work?
<didrocks> same issue with gnome-panel and othersâ¦
<seb128> pitti, not perfectly yet
<didrocks> pitti: well I'm just testing this :)
<pitti> didrocks: nice :)
<seb128> but some of the issues are fixed yes
<didrocks> and we will add tomorrow the profiles
<pitti> seb128: ok, I'm glad to hear that; thanks for the heads-up
<seb128> pitti, yw ;-)
<seb128> congrats to didrocks
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<seb128> he did a rocking job on getting the new compiz in
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<seb128> we get very few upgrade issues
<seb128> just a few settings glitches but that easy to workaround
<didrocks> well, hope to remove every glitches + adding the profile for tomorrow :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> but this gnome-wm thing makes me crazy, but we can't remove it, it seemsâ¦
<seb128> why does it make you crazy?
<didrocks> seb128: I think we should try to remove it, this wrapper use alternatives that we don't use anymore, it's launched by the "required_componenents/windowmananger" gconf key, but gnome-appearance-properties overwrites it to metacity or compizâ¦
<didrocks> so, basically, it's just use until you change it in gnome-appeareance-properties which has a different logic then, doesn't look nice :)
<seb128> no it's not?
<seb128> the wrapper has cases for other wm out of those
<seb128> it just has logic to respect the GNOME config if there is one
<didrocks> seb128: right, but gnome-appearance-properties shouldn't overwrite the wrapper launch then, so that we always use the wrapper and tweak the secondary keys
<didrocks> (also, we still have patch for dapper updateâ¦)
<seb128> well arguably we are faster by overwriting the wrapper
<didrocks> yeah, but we have another code path and suchâ¦ for instance, I don't really quite well understand why people having gnome-wm, on compiz update, seems to have metacity overwrittenâ¦ (still need confirming)
<seb128> there is no point to run a shell wrapper at each login to start a known wm
<didrocks> well, that's what we do for gdm :)
<seb128> well maybe we should fix what we do for gdm then?
<seb128> rather than adding slow code in the session
<seb128> I'm not a fan of adding shell scripts to the session when not needed
<seb128> it's just costing login time
<didrocks> I wanted to whip it out at firstâ¦
<seb128> we had to work hard enough to spare some
<didrocks> but if people don't have compiz, they won't have the fallback
<seb128> well we could argue that if you get out of the default install enough, ie uninstall compiz, it's your job to fix the session
<didrocks> we could do that for gdm, as it seems xfce people are just running an autostart .desktop file for their wm, so we can change the "mandatory" key
<didrocks> so, you would be in favor to remove gnome-wm definitively?
<seb128> not sure, I need to think about it a bit
<seb128> not removing it in any case
<seb128> just not using it by default
<seb128> we still need it for upgrades
<seb128> user configs might be set on it
<didrocks> yeah, that's what I meant "removing == changing the required_component key to compiz for user session and metacity for gdm"
<seb128> since we don't have a nice way to change user gconf configs on upgrades
<didrocks> seb128: as a side note, I'm curious, why setting metacity as default on user upgrade for dapper? compiz wasn't still the default IIRC?
<seb128> what?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I think because it was the default winmanager by then
<seb128> we didn't want to force compiz for upgraders
<seb128> we still wanted to default to what people had before upgrading
<seb128> less risky way
<seb128> "keep what people had and let them opt in if they want"
<didrocks> seb128: oh ok, let upgrade get metacity, for new install compiz?
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> didrocks, correct
<didrocks> I was curious about it :)
<didrocks> so, it seems you deal with that in the upgrade for user gconf key, touching /var/lib/gnome-session/dapper-upgrade after the gnome-session upgrade
<didrocks> I'm still thinking do we want compiz or not, as if it's not the case, people upgrading won't have gnome-panel, neither unity
<seb128> we can drop those hacks now
<didrocks> yeah, it's leftover for merges
<seb128> didrocks, why would people not get gnome-panel on upgrade?
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<didrocks> seb128: because with unity in the default session, we don't need gnome-panel, so removing it as a required_components
<vish> didrocks: Bug #671776 is what you were looking for :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 671776 in unity (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "NetworkManager applet not shown with applications view (affects: 1) (heat: 208)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671776
<seb128> didrocks, ok, need some thinking
<didrocks> vish: oh thanks! can you put it as a duplicate?
<vish> didrocks: sure.. np..
<didrocks> seb128: well, basically, I have a patch on gnome-session to tell "ok, gnome-panel isn't a required component, don't respawn it"
<didrocks> so, we will be able to let it that way
<didrocks> but sounds hackish to kill it at start once unity is there
<seb128> right, not to mention that we want to respawn it in the 2d session
<didrocks> seb128: well, the 2d session is a different session, we can let it as a required_componenent
<didrocks> with the gconf paths
<seb128> well unity session fallback if you want
<seb128> like unity session but were unity start is failing
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> so, the hack to readd it doesn't work
<didrocks> as discussed yesterday
<didrocks> it can't match the app and the client on dbus
<didrocks> I tried to find a way to tell "hey hey, it's the same"
<didrocks> but didn't work very well
<seb128> could you do an email about that with all the scenario to take in account?
<seb128> like upgrades using compiz, upgrades not using it, unity session where unity is not working, 2d session
<seb128> I think it need some thinking out of IRC with a summary
<seb128> we might get ideas on the list
<seb128> it would for sure help me to have a summary of cases and some time to think about it
<didrocks> hum, okâ¦ hope that we can deal with that quite quickly as alpha1 is closed :)
<seb128> doesn't need to be this week
<didrocks> close*
<seb128> well if the upgrades are not perfect in a1 so be it
<seb128> it's only a1
<didrocks> right, but with the profile not being able to upgrade in compiz, if we need some tweaking there, that will be better to take that early
<seb128> well I didn't want to add stress to what you are doing
<seb128> but if you want to get that email out today feel free
<didrocks> I'll
<seb128> you handle your time as you want ;-)
<didrocks> well, I'm trying to focus on that before the crazy end of week :-) and if we tell "we need that know" after tomorrow evening, not sure to have the time for A1
<didrocks> hence my "the sooner, the better" :)
<seb128> k
<seb128> enough IRC discussions, I will let you work
<pitti> I'm off for a longer lunch today, CU later
<seb128> pitti, have fun
<seb128> rodrigo_, invest-applet doesn't work here
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, fixed a few more issues, but still doesn't work here neither
<seb128> NameError: name 'gobject' is not defined
<seb128> there
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, already fixed that
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> now stuck in PanelApplet.Applet.factory_main, it says it can't find that method, but the gir file has it :(
<chrisccoulson> wow, a morning wasted just to find that my build issue is caused by 2 linker flags being the wrong way around
<chrisccoulson> grrrrrrr
<kklimonda> heh
<kklimonda> I've wasted an hour or so for the same reason a week ago or so
<chrisccoulson> it's seriously annoying, especially when it used to work just fine
<seb128> kklimonda, hey
<kklimonda> seb128: hola
<seb128> chrisccoulson, having the source after the libs?
<seb128> source -> object
<seb128> ie gcc -l... file.c -o ...?
<kklimonda> seb128: I've seen that you have lost a lot of time yesterday discussin sponsoring.. and that's why you haven't had time to actually sponsor? ;}
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, it was more subtle than that
<seb128> kklimonda, that and I can't find your sponsoring requests
<seb128> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
<seb128> doesn't have them
<seb128> nor my bugmail box
<seb128> kklimonda, that's why I was pinging you
<seb128> where do you hide your work? ;-)
<seb128> the glibmm update?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i need to do "../libjs_static.a -lnspr4" rather than "-lnspr4 ../libjs_static.a", because libjs_static.a has objects that uses nspr symbols
<seb128> chrisccoulson, tell us ;-)
<seb128> oh
<kklimonda> seb128: bah, my bad - I've assumed requesting a merge to the ~ubuntu-desktop branch is enough as you are tuned to the case ;)
<seb128> got bitten by the same issue for gnome-panel last week
<chrisccoulson> but it has always worked before :(
<seb128> yes, doko said it was luck though
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<seb128> or rather --as-needed makes it stricter
<kklimonda> seb128: give me a minute and I'll open a bug about it.
<seb128> kklimonda, well just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the merge request
<seb128> no need of a bug
<kklimonda> seb128: oh? I didn't know that - is the packaging branch enough, or would you prefer full branch with source?
<kklimonda> I think I have both
<seb128> kklimonda, the packaging is better
<seb128> I don't want to have to checkout the full glibmm history
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<kklimonda> yes, that's the huge issue with the new model - I remember giving up few times and just using apt-get source because it was fetching hundreds MBs of data.. slowly ;)
<seb128> the desktop sources are still debian dir only in the vcs due to that
<kklimonda> seb128: I can't really subscribe sponsors to the merge itself, is subscribing them to the branch enough?
<seb128> why not?
<seb128> you can ask review from sponsors?
<seb128> click on the request review from button
<seb128> then write ubuntu-sponsors
<seb128> it should work?
<kklimonda> ah, reviewer is set to ubuntu desktop and I can change it
<kklimonda> ok, worked fine
<seb128> yeah, the issue with that is that nobody is subscribed to ubuntu-desktop emails
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's amazing - i tried to build icedtea-web against xulrunner-2.0 last night, and it has exactly the same type of linker flag ordering issue as well
<chrisccoulson> and that's doko's own package ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it seems we will get quite some issues due to that
<chrisccoulson> right, that's xul-192 fixed i think. hopefully it builds now,i don't really want to waste time waiting for it to build here
<kklimonda> btw, the amount of ways stuff can be sponsored right now is so big I'm actually considering working on my upload rights just so I don't have to deal with it ;)
<rodrigo_> pitti, ping
<rodrigo_> oh, he was off for a long lunch
<rodrigo_> does anyone know how to tell apport to look for symptoms modules in a different dir than /usr/share/apport/symptoms/ ?
<ara> hello guys
<rodrigo_> hola ara
<ara> I have installed natty from yesterday image (alternate) and, although unity is installed by default, I don't have a Ubuntu Netbook Edition in the gdm menu
<ara> it always logs in to the gnome session
<ara> is that expected?
<didrocks> ara: that's normal, there is no more ubuntu netbook edition
<ara> didrocks, but how I get a unity session?
<didrocks> ara: and for now, unity isn't the default on the desktop
<didrocks> ara: there is no unity session, just enables unity as a compiz plugin
<didrocks> ara: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuide
<ara> ta
<didrocks> should remove the ppa bits, one sec :)
<ara> :)
<didrocks> fixed
<rodrigo_> http://pastebin.com/usEdyfRF <- is this because libgnome-control-cneter doesn't have a .symbols file?
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine: Congratulations! You are a core-dev now!
<nisshh> kenvandine, congratz dude!
<rodrigo_> congrats kenvandine!! :-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, it should not
<seb128> rodrigo_, is /usr/lib/libgnome-control-center.so.1 shipped with any binary?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, gnome-control-center
<baptistemm> 3
<rodrigo_> let me re-check
<baptistemm> 3
<baptistemm> oups
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, g-c-c package
<seb128> rodrigo_, why is it there?
<seb128> is that a public library?
<seb128> if that's one it should be shipped in a libg-c-c1
<seb128> I didn't check what is the issue
<rodrigo_> yes, need to split it, but it should work for building other modules, right?
<seb128> but libraries should be in a lib<name> binary
<rodrigo_> that's why it can't find the dependency?
<seb128> well I'm not sure how much the checksymbol check that lib are in a lib binary
<seb128> could be
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll split the g-c-c package
<seb128> let me try to figure if that's the case
<rodrigo_> and try with that
<rodrigo_> ok
<cyphermox> good morning!
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<mterry> kenvandine, !!  wooo!  core dev!
<seb128> hey mterry
<seb128> kenvandine, congrats ;-)
<mterry> seb128, hi
<didrocks> congrats kenvandine!
<seb128> mterry, you are on the ubuntu-desktop list right?
<didrocks> hey mterry, cyphermox!
<mterry> seb128, yeah, I saw that post about how I'm not supposed to be on the team  :)
<mterry> whoops
<mterry> I assume I should apply the right way?
<seb128> mterry, ok, I think it's just paperwork issues
<cyphermox> hey kenvandine, congrats :D
<seb128> yes please
 * mterry reads how
<seb128> mterry, just send an email on the list saying you want to apply and why
<pitti> rodrigo_: hey
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes, you can set $APPORT_SYMPTOMS_DIR
<kenvandine> yay :)
<pitti> kenvandine: oh, congratulations to your core-dev badge! well earned
<kenvandine> thank you
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti> seb128: hello again
<seb128> pitti, did you read the ubuntu-desktop email from micahg today?
<pitti> seb128: I've seen it fly by, yes
<seb128> pitti, ok, sorry about the messing up there
<pitti> so we should announce the two members to the -desktop and that other list, right?
<seb128> pitti, sorry got sidetracked with something else
<seb128> pitti, well, I think mterry can apply without issue
<seb128> not sure if rodrigo_ needs some extra time with reviews before
<pitti> seb128: mterry> ack, he should just (be able to) upload
<seb128> I added them to work on the ppa rather than to give them upload rights
<seb128> but right now we don't have different rights for those
<pitti> right, so we have a privilege conflict there
<seb128> so either we create a new team for the ppa...
<seb128> or we ask rodrigo to get through reviews for a bit
<seb128> do you have any preference?
<seb128> I would lean toward the second one I think
<seb128> we want the ppa to be natty quality
<seb128> it's work in progress GNOME3 to land when ready
<seb128> we will have quite some users running it and ideally we should reduce breakages
<seb128> it's also a nice way for rodrigo to get some reviewing and get the feedback he needs to be added to the team for uploads
<pitti> seb128: reviews sound like a good idea; I think for now it should be enough that he promises to only upload to the PPA, not to natty yet, until he becomes "officially" accepted as an uploader?
<seb128> well that's what he did when I added to the team
<seb128> but the policy wiki doesn't really consider such cases
<seb128> so I'm not sure what we should do to get back in not abusing the rules
<pitti> seb128: hm, perhaps we should then do that dogfooding thing and actually review/sponsor his uploads to the PPA, too?
<seb128> wel that's what I was suggesting
<seb128> ok, let's do that?
<seb128> either he's up to do updates and we can ack him in the new weeks
<seb128> or the review work will be an useful exercice for him
<seb128> pitti, let's do that for a bit and see how it goes?
<pitti> I agree
<pitti> rodrigo_: does that work for you?
<seb128> ok great
<pitti> rodrigo_: you can work in bzr branches for now, and ask Seb/me/Ken/etc for reviewing and merging, and we do the uploads for you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, so we will probably remove your commit and upload right to the ppa for a bit, time you get officially approved
<seb128> rodrigo_, if reviews are ok you will be able to apply for official membership in a few weeks
<pitti> seb128: for mterry, we need three acks on ubuntu-desktop; want me to send the invitation?
<seb128> pitti, invitation?
<pitti> to join the u-desktop team (belatedly)
<mterry> pitti, I just sent an email to the list
<seb128> I was waiting for you and didrocks to ack him and going to ack and Cc the permission list
<pitti> s per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Developers
<seb128> well, let's said it differently
<seb128> if you and didrocks reply to ack him I will do the remaining ack and Cc the list
<seb128> so it's all done
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: works for you?
<seb128> well, didrocks or kenvandine
<didrocks> seb128: works for me
<seb128> or chrisccoulson
<seb128> I don't think we lack people to ack mterry
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> oh mterry, wait!
<didrocks> (kidding)
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> seems he working on that quickly thing
 * didrocks looks if he hacked my merge request on Quickly before deciding :)
<kenvandine> :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, did you get my pings yesterday?
<pitti> seb128, mterry: I sent my "no, no, no, not THAT guy" mail as a response
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i probably missed them, i was trying not to get distracted
<kenvandine> sorry
<kenvandine> what's up?
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, no need to be sorry.  :)  I have finished the 2.32.2 SRU, i was just letting you know so when you got the chance you could sponsor/review it and push to natty
<mterry> :)
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, cool, bug #?
<bcurtiswx> bug #678330
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678330 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy 2.32.2 Stable Release Update Request (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678330
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i'll take a look later this afternoon
<kenvandine> thx!
<mterry> pitti, well, if this is the "no" email, I'd like to see what you say for people you like.  ;)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, great, no rush.  :) you're the best
<cyphermox> pitti, btw, fontconfig merge is ready for review, I set ubuntu-sponsors as reviewer for the branch. since you had asked about it yesterday :)
<pitti> hey cyphermox, great!
<seb128> kenvandine, does that mean you can upload gtk3 yourself today? ;-)
<bcurtiswx> pitti, doesn't like people.  it's against his beliefs ;)
<didrocks> mterry: seb128: sent my "no email" as well :)
 * pitti holds up his "I hate y'all" cardboard sign
<cyphermox> y'all?
<cyphermox> eh.
<seb128> quality is going down I tell you
<seb128> see all those slackers getting uploads right
<seb128> kenvandine, mterry
<cyphermox> lol
 * bcurtiswx is on his way to slacking ;)
 * cyphermox is slacking selectively ;)
<pitti> bcurtiswx: slack harder! slack harder!
<pitti> *grouphug*
<kenvandine> seb128, i guess so :)
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * bcurtiswx is.  i hope to apply by cycle's end
<seb128> bcurtiswx, great, keep the nice work ;-)
<pitti> so, back to the depths of untangling threads in usb-creator
<bcurtiswx> seb128, thx. :)
 * bcurtiswx killed seb128 ?
<pitti> seb128 respawns
<didrocks> like my gnome-session issue :)
<mterry> :)
<pitti> quickly, collect all his goodies and weapons!
 * didrocks tries to get people read my thread :p
<seb128> pitti, I've to fix those conflicts at some point, I've 2 boxes which disconnect each other when connecting
<pitti> use seb129 on the other one?
<seb128> I should, it's my old config
<seb128> I turn it sometimes on for debug
<bcurtiswx> this is too good
<seb128> but I never bothered changing the config
 * bcurtiswx rofl's
<mterry> didrocks, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, your email is less inviting than mterry's one to read for some reason
<didrocks> seb128: not sure whyâ¦ :-)
<didrocks> oh those headaches!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> I've put some jokes inside, that's so unfair!
<pitti> didrocks: which email do you mean?
<seb128> could be, I need to find the motivation to read enough to see them ;-)
<seb128> pitti, the one he sent on the desktop list early today
<pitti> odd, I see it in the archive, but not in my mail box
<didrocks> pitti: isn't that /ignore didrocks ? :)
<pitti> not in my procmail.log either
<pitti> so not even in spam
<pitti> didrocks: would you mind bouncing it to me?
<pitti> so that I can reply in thread
<didrocks> pitti: sure, one sec
<pitti> cyphermox: uploaded, thanks!
<cyphermox> pitti, wow, thanks!
<didrocks> rodrigo_: when e-d-s build issue and new evolution will be published, would you mind testing evolution-couchdb with the new version and ask for a rebuild if needed?
<didrocks> (well, a rebuild will be needed for picking up the new shlibs in any case)
<cyphermox> didrocks, found the cause for the e-d-s new ftbfs ...
<didrocks> cyphermox: nice! what was it?
<cyphermox> upload of gtk+2.0 2.23 along with using -DGTK_DISABLE_DEPRECATED :)
<cyphermox> gtk_combo_box_append_text is now deprecated
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, there should be a commit upstream about it, you should be able to backport it
<didrocks> cyphermox: or add the flag in configure
<cyphermox> yep
<didrocks> cyphermox: you should try in a pbuilder and trying to rebuild everything, maybe evolution and other have those issues as well now
<cyphermox> yeah, just checking if there's a commit first
<ara> didrocks, compizconfig-settings-manager is not installed by default. You might want to put that in your Unity installation wiki page
<seb128> ok, enough testing
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I've sponsored your d-f-u update btw
<seb128> kklimonda, doing the glibmm build at the moment as well
<didrocks> ara: well, unity will be the default this week normally and unity it's quite experimental until then, hence the fact it's not strongly encouraged until then :)
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, why the push to make unity default so quick.. seems too broken ATM IMO
<mterry> more testing this way?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, sure
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I changed evo-couchdb to compile with any version of e-d-s, but only tested on git versions, so, yes, will do it
<didrocks> more testing than testing A1 without having it, and double session for people wanting still gnome-panel. it's a win-winâ¦
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, unstable is unstable
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, seb128.  OK :) when will the ubuntu button be fixed ?
<bcurtiswx> can't really access local files easy without it..
<seb128> bcurtiswx, should be in alpha2
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you case use nautilus
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: anything that works for you works for me, but what do you mean about removing my rights? I would not be able to do the uploads/merges myself then, even after reviews?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the best way to get things fixed is to get testing and people complaining about what doesn't work
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you can easily go back to GNOME as well
<rodrigo_> diwic, oh, you were here, missed it :-)
<seb128> just unset the compiz unity option
<seb128> rodrigo_, no you would not, it means whoever review for you should merge and upload
<bcurtiswx> seb128, i know.  I have it on compiz w/o unity ATM .  thx :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, the issue is that the team give access to the ppa and ubuntu proper
<seb128> even if you don't use the right to upload to ubuntu it was not done in the rules
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> (sorry, just popped out to grab some lunch)
<seb128> rodrigo_, things like not renaming the gnome-keyring library to match the soname shows you might benefit from some reviewing before upload still
<seb128> rodrigo_, it shouldn't be lot of extra work since in theory you needed review still, it just mean we have to run the merge and upload commands for you after review
<seb128> we have enough people in the team that it should not be an issue
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh no, I'm ok with the reviews, I know I need them
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> I will reply to the list now
<seb128> need another session restart before though
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, mterry, looks like some team changes today?
<rickspencer3> congrats kenvandine!
<rickspencer3> way to go mterry!
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, thx!
<mterry> rickspencer3, :)
<mterry> seb128, thanks!
<bilalakhtar> mterry: I saw your application on the ubuntu-desktop ML. HAven't you been added already? then what is the point of sending an application?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - what do i need to do to get xulrunner-2.0 in to main btw? (it's basically going to replace xulrunner-1.9.2)
<chrisccoulson> i wanted to get everything in main ported this week so we can drop the old one to universe
<cyphermox> bilalakhtar, there was an email from micah on the list, there were no announces/applications before mterry joined the team
<bilalakhtar> cyphermox: I know that
<cyphermox> bilalakhtar, sending an application just confirms there is people to ack him :)
<mterry> bilalakhtar, point was to try to follow process after having broken it
<bilalakhtar> but there is no point in 'doing what was supposed to have been done' since the result has come already: mterry has joined
<bilalakhtar> mterry: ^
<bilalakhtar> okay
<chrisccoulson> congrats mterry ;)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, thanks  :)
<bilalakhtar> congrats mterry ! ( I congratulated you when you actually joined)
<mterry> bilalakhtar, :)
<seb128> bilalakhtar, we shouldn't have added him without doing that
<seb128> so we are fixing it
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<bilalakhtar> and why is rodrigo_ out of the team
<bilalakhtar> ?
<rodrigo_> they don't like me :(
<kklimonda> he misbehaves!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ask me nicely? :-)
<seb128> bilalakhtar, will follow up on the list with that in a but, but basically he's not ready yet to get the acks he needs
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it's not built yet, BTW, is that expected?
<seb128> we don't have a way to give ppa access without upload rights
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I promoted the source to main
<bilalakhtar> that would mean splitting the already-awesome ~ubuntu-desktop
<chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind promoting it to main for me please? (but perhaps after i have uploaded it with the extra xulrunner-dev and xulrunner-2.0-mozjs binaries too)
<chrisccoulson> oh, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> (bit of a lag there) ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: did you find anything?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, well not sure we need that, it just means rodrigo needs to have reviews until we confirm he doesn't need those
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i think it's built, but the binaries are in NEW
<seb128> bilalakhtar, which is the best way to get feedback and learn what you still need
<bilalakhtar> seb128: thanks for the info, sorry for the unnecessary discussion, I was just curious
<seb128> no worry
<cyphermox> didrocks, not for the other evolution packages, but I can't build them without e-d-s
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'm speaking about the e-d-s FTBFS :)
<cyphermox> so as soon as I'm ready for a merge I'll send that for e-d-s and go on to test the rest by pushing everything to a ppa
<cyphermox> didrocks, right
<cyphermox> well yeah, the e-d-s ftbfs is fixed
<cyphermox> just wiaitng for pbuilder to finish building it
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, nice :)
<cyphermox> there was indeed a fix in the 2.91 branch
<cyphermox> didrocks, btw, the sru bugs are pretty much ready too, I'm just finishing up applying the patches ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, thanks :)
<czajkowski> kenvandine: ever seen where you launch gwibber in another desktop like #4 but it launches in desktop #1 every single time
<kenvandine> czajkowski, humm
<kenvandine> czajkowski, i can maybe see where that might happen
<czajkowski> kenvandine: and this isn't even my special laptop, this is the work one
 * bcurtiswx_ goes and tests
<czajkowski> kenvandine: kinda annoying as I like things in different desktops 1 &2 being work 3 & 4 social
<kenvandine> yeah... so gwibber saves it's window position
<czajkowski> kenvandine: can I file a bug :D
<kenvandine> i never really considered the position might not be relative to the current desktop
 * bcurtiswx_ uses memenu and desktop #4 to launch gwibber.. and it launches in desktop #4 :-\
<kenvandine> czajkowski, please file the bug :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, so you closed the gwibber window and changed workspaces right?
<kenvandine> i just tried it and it worked for me
<kenvandine> closed in workspace 1
<kenvandine> and switched to workspace 4
<kenvandine> and clicked on it in the messaging menu
<kenvandine> opened on workspace 4
<bcurtiswx> i will test it exactly that way
<kenvandine> czajkowski, actually... are you closing the window?
<bcurtiswx> yeah, works. i even closed in workspace 4.. opened on memenu on desktop 1 and opened in desktop 1
<kenvandine> if you minimize it, it will just raise on the workspace it was minimized on
<czajkowski> kenvandine: closing which window ?|
<kenvandine> gwibber
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/680530
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 680530 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Gwibber doesnt launch in the desktop I launch it from (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> kenvandine: I launch it via the desktop and me memue when I'm on the #4 desktop
<kenvandine> yeah, but is it already open somewhere?
<kenvandine> or minimized?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> this is when I start up pc in the morning
<bcurtiswx> czajkowski, first launch?
<czajkowski> bcurtiswx: yes
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, side effect of having xulrunner-2.0 in main now - i can't upload it ;)
<chrisccoulson> are you able to add it to the mozilla packageset, or does somebody else need to do that?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hang on, currently juggling SRU kernels
<pitti> I can
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool, thanks :)
<bcurtiswx> czajkowski, can you reproduce by quitting and launching empathy without a restart?
<bcurtiswx> eek
<bcurtiswx> czajkowski, gwibber not empathy
<bcurtiswx> i have empathy on the brain :X
<rodrigo_> pitti, I can still upload to the PPA right?
<rodrigo_> pitti, and push to the ubuntugtk3 branches?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I see that xulrunner-1.9.2 is in the mozilla package set
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I added -2.0; try uploading again?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, will try that now
<czajkowski> bcurtiswx: sure let me try , in the middle of wiping a mac and putting lenny on it here, so things are breaking
<pitti> rodrigo_: not sure about the owner of the ubuntugtk3 branches; the PPA is owned by ~ubuntu-desktop, so you'd need sponsoring there; but that's kind of the point, it will make us review stuff and then officially approve you quickly :)
<mvo> hey jcastro - I re-activated the daily builds for s-c :) https://code.launchpad.net/~software-store-developers/+archive/daily-build
<jcastro> ooh nice, tweet fodder.
<bcurtiswx> czajkowski, OK.  Im gonna head out for a bit.  i'll check PM's later
<mvo> lol, test it first ;)
 * mvo goes and finds a maverick machine
<seb128> re
<seb128> sorry internet got flacky for a bit
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that worked now btw
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<pitti> cool
<chrisccoulson> now to updated couchdb to not pull in the entire toolkit :)
<pitti> go, chrisccoulson, go!
<chrisccoulson> **update
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> :)
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: Setting up xulrunner-1.9.2 (1.9.2.13+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu2) ...
<Sarvatt> dpkg: error processing xulrunner-1.9.2 (--configure):
<Sarvatt> hung forever and had to kill it
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, oh, bugger, i thought that was fixed
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, i386?
 * Sarvatt nods
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, bug 663294 most likely
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663294 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) "Firefox built with gcc-4.5 is a non-starter on i386 with -pie (affects: 3) (heat: 120)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/663294
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt - mind attaching GDB to it?
<chrisccoulson> it's the xulrunner-1.9.2 process called from the postinst script which hangs
<chrisccoulson> you might need to manually unpack the debug symbols
<chrisccoulson> i'm tempted to just switch xr-192 to gcc-4.4. we're going to kill it entirely this cycle anyway
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, asked pitti about the PPA and the ubuntugtk3 branches, so just to confirm, I need review and an uploader for those, right?
<chrisccoulson> i don't really want to be spending time fixing it when it's going to get dropped from the archive
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, just ping on the channel, I will try to be responsive for those
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will also review things already in the ppa, do you have anything pending sponsoring to natty or the ppa?
<jcastro> Laney: ok so I wasn't aware the MIR deadline for banshee was today.
<jcastro> otherwise I would have bothered you much sooner. :)
<Laney> was it?
<Laney> nobody told me
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, one branch, the rest was before the decision, so I uploaded/pushed them -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/add-libgnome-control-center/+merge/41617
<jcastro> ok so we have until thursday to sort it out I guess
<didrocks> Laney: jcastro: not really a MIR deadline, but if we want to change the seed for A1, thursday is the cut off, the time for the MIR to be reviewed and suchâ¦
<jcastro> and I suppose it's on me to convince asac to be nice
<czajkowski> bcurtiswx: killed all gwibbers, and started it again from desktop and on #4 it launched in #1 again
<didrocks> asac is always nice :)
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: might take awhile while I try to work out how to get more info from it but i'm trying :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> i'll do my best tonight
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, waiting for the launchpad diff and I will review it
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, sure, no worries
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i can't test this easily as i'm not on i386, and it seems to be arch-specific
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, hey, how is the nm-indicator thing going?
<jcastro> didrocks: this will end up costing me a few bottles of whiskey, I am sure.
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems the sort of change where review is useful
<didrocks> jcastro: not only "a few", I'm afraid for you :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, all my changes need review, yes :-)
<jcastro> didrocks: let's hope Laney doesn't have expensive taste
<seb128> rodrigo_, well easy updates are usually fine, but renaming etc are less obvious
<rodrigo_> seb128, just been pushing/uploading to the PPA because it was going to be reviewed afterwards
<didrocks> jcastro: :)
<cyphermox> rickspencer3, well, I was going to wait until after the holidays to start, which is once upstream has done some API cleanup. That said, I already have a draft that kind of works since UDS
<seb128> rodrigo_, right
<Laney> jcastro: seeing banshee by default is intoxicating enough for me ;)
<cyphermox> this is in addition to some of the additional features that will be added this cycle in libappindicator that will help a lot
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, does it work at all?
<cyphermox> rickspencer3, right now, partly. I can't easily build the list of networks
<jcastro> Laney: did we ever come up with a final number for the swap wrt. disk space?
<cyphermox> there is something I can try to fix it though
<cyphermox> rickspencer3, I assume you're saying this because you'd like to see something by alpha 1 ? :)
<Laney> jcastro: estimate about 2500kb, but it's difficult to know for sure
<jcastro> didrocks: ^ See, that wasn't so bad!
<Laney> that is our rough estimate of CD impact with stripping out translations
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, is the only thing blocking that users would have to use "connect to a hidden wireless network ... " to connect?
<didrocks> Laney: jcastro: nice! tells that to pitti, he's the first concerned :)
<Laney> btw, does pkgstriptranslations only look in /u/s/locale?
<cyphermox> rickspencer3, I guess that would be a way to make it work for now
<Laney> we were discussing whether it strips user help translations too
<pitti> Laney: cool!
<rickspencer3> cyphermox, can we talk in #ayatana?
<cyphermox> rickspencer3, I also have an issue with icons, but I can more or less work around that
<cyphermox> sure
<pitti> Laney: yes, we also help gnome help translations of main packages, and put them into langpacks
<Laney> ah cool
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: http://sarvatt.com/downloads/xulrunner-1.9.2.txt
<Laney> might be a little bit ore then
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, thanks. so, it looks like the same issue, which should have gone away with -pie :/
<chrisccoulson> i'll try a build with all the build hardening switched off for now
<mvo> tremolux: check s-c trunk, the startup-speed stuff is merged now
<tremolux> mvo: I saw that, thanks!  \o/
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: good morning! you'll chair today?
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, oh, I see what's wrong
<jasoncwarner1> Sure thing!
<pitti> (we start in 4, right?)
<Sarvatt> doh, should look before I accept dist-upgrades eh, evolution removed :)
<chrisccoulson> i have a version check in debian/rules to switch off -pie in natty, but i removed the lsb_release calls to get the current distro version by accident a few commits ago
 * chrisccoulson crawls in a dark corner
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: phew, at least its not the toolchain again :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> although, the original issue is with the toolchain ;)
<chrisccoulson> but this one is my fault
<chrisccoulson> the buildd's are going to love me today
<jasoncwarner1> Ok, if my day light saving times didn't mess up again, is it that time?
<jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-24
<rodrigo_> jasoncwarner1, yes, seems so :)
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: right
<rodrigo_> ugh, the status reports have disappeared from that page
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
 * rodrigo_ added his this morning
<rodrigo_> ah, ok :)
<pitti> that's because in Jason's world it's already Wednesday :)
<rodrigo_> heh
<jasoncwarner1> oops! :)
<jasoncwarner1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
 * pitti deletes the empty -24 page
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: ain't timezones fun?
<kenvandine> :)
 * jasoncwarner1 spites time travel and timezones
<jasoncwarner1> I can't think about timezones normally, let alone this early ;)
<seb128> hey everybody
<seb128> would be nice to highlight all team members
<jasoncwarner1> Well, here is the quick agenda, but kenvandine needs to go first so he can leave to take care of something.
<didrocks> hey
<tkamppeter> hi
<pitti> bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_: meeting o'clock
<tremolux> heya all
<mterry> yup
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: did you want to go around ? is that what you were thinking?
<Riddell> meeting!
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: just the above, to "wake up" everyone
 * rodrigo_ wakes up
 * kenvandine yawns
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine jumps in with a partner update so i can make it to pick up one of my kids on time :)
<kenvandine> Ubuntu One
<kenvandine>  work items are all entered and tracked (yay, that drove me nuts last cycle)
<kenvandine>  desktopcouch improvements are close to landing in natty, hopefully this week
<kenvandine> they have been spending quite a bit of time fixing up infrastructure problems, so lets hope it gets more reliable soon
<kenvandine> DX
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, no, just a:
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine, chrisccoulson, pitti, Riddell, mterry, ...: hello
<kenvandine>  GDBus port is well underway, but we won't be getting that uploaded to natty until after A1.  It will require the entire indicator stack to be uploaded together
<chrisccoulson> hi! :)
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, so people who didn't notice the time get their IRC blinking
<kenvandine> with the exception of libdee and libzg port to GDBus should make it in before A1
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> those can be done individually
<kenvandine>  dbusmenu build problems on natty
<pitti> kenvandine: not quite sure why? you can certainly port both sides of the d-bus separately? or am I missing something?
<pitti> i. e. each -service process can be ported individually?
<kenvandine> they said they need all the indicators ported at the same time as libindicator, etc
<kenvandine> it is a pretty delicate mesh of packages... it seems
<pitti> well, let's not dwell on it; if it all lands early, fine :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> 2 weeks :)
<kenvandine> dbusmenu build problems on natty
<seb128> kenvandine, what about the gtk3 builds?
<kenvandine> found problems in gtk+2.0 and gtk+3.0 related to gir and vapigen, fixed in natty already
<kenvandine> GIRs created in natty includes more information, including class info, which is causing problems with the generated GIR in dbusmenu, ted is looking at that.
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<kenvandine> still doesn't build with gtk2 on natty
<kenvandine> much less gtk3 :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, oh, I'm having problems with gtk2 gir for the invest applet, so is the package already available?
<kenvandine> he needs to look at why the class info generated in his GIR is wrong
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> ok, will try later
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> any questions?
 * kenvandine really needs to run out... sorry folks :)
<jasoncwarner1> Later kenvandine!
<jasoncwarner1> thanks
<kenvandine> i read back when i get back
<kenvandine> :)
<rodrigo_> later kenvandine
<seb128> kenvandine, later
<jasoncwarner1> robert_ancell wanted to talk about meeting format, but I figure we should have that at the end.
<jasoncwarner1> Here is the stated agenda for now.
<jasoncwarner1> Agenda
<jasoncwarner1>     * Outstanding actions from last meeting
<jasoncwarner1>     * Partner Update
<jasoncwarner1>     * Kubuntu Update
<jasoncwarner1>     * X Update
<jasoncwarner1>     * Unity Update
<jasoncwarner1>     * USC Update
<jasoncwarner1>     * Release Bugs/Release Status
<jasoncwarner1>     * Review activity reports
<jasoncwarner1>     * Any other business
<jasoncwarner1> partner update got bumped up, so done.
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm a bit concerned about those build issues being there for 2 weeks now and I guess thanksgiving will not help this week
<seb128> but we can talk about that later
<jasoncwarner1> I don't see any oustanding actions from last meeting.
<jasoncwarner1> Can anyone remember any that weren't captured in the wiki
<pitti> there was "[robert_ancell] Email team about meeting/action items format " which is done
<pitti> and some actions carried over which I failed to add to the wiki page
<pitti> jasoncwarner - follow up with tkamppeter about paper size bp
<pitti> it seems most of this is getting done in bug reports now
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: that is done, but I don't have an update for wiki yet.
<pitti> doko/riddell - investigate ARM issue with kubuntu
<pitti> unknown
<pitti> and finally, "prepare initial release page", which is done: prepare initial release page
<pitti> sorry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<Riddell>   * Qt still broken on ARM, patch to GCC sent upstream for review, am told GCC won't get uploaded until after Alpha 1 so broken until then
<pitti> Riddell: is that blocking anything on your side?
<jasoncwarner1> ok, robert_ancell meeting format discussion we can have as the conclusion to this meeting :)
<Riddell> pitti: only working ARM images
<pitti> Riddell: I guess not a biggie for A1?
<Riddell> not my main concern no
<jasoncwarner1> well, why don't we roll with Riddell updating and move right into Kubuntu update?
<Riddell>   * Qt graphics system set to raster in Kubuntu, makes things smoother and faster.  openoffice broken though, need maintainer to make 1 line patch, any chance of one appearing soon?
<Riddell>   * Phonon set to GStreamer by default
<Riddell>   * Patience game on the CD after package splitting, long standing request
<Riddell>   * KDE SC 4.5 Beta 1 in progress, lots of problems with this upstrem (compile failure, missing dependencies) so slow going
<pitti> Riddell: you can commit it to the bzr for now if you like
<Riddell> pitti: commit which?
<pitti> Riddell: the OO.o one-liner
<Riddell> pitti: I need someone's help to find where in the 500MB of OO.o it needs to go
<pitti> Riddell: I seriously doublt that the entire OO.o will just build with gcc-4.5, so right now I doubt that we can do a quick test build
<pitti> Riddell: oh, the packaging bzr is rather small
<pitti> Riddell: there's a patches/ directory
<pitti> Riddell: or just keep it in a bug report, and we assign it to the OO.o maintainer once we have one :)
<pitti> (should that be LO.o now?)
<jasoncwarner1> Riddell: re: OO.o/LibO maintainer. Fingers crossed that we have someone working fulltime on LibO by early/mid Dec. It would be a huge win for all of us!
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: I think it is LibO, from what I've seen
<jasoncwarner1> Riddell: thanks for the updates. Any questions for Kubuntu update?
<jasoncwarner1> next item on the list is X Update otherwise
<pitti> I guess we should move this point to the Eastern edition
<pitti> since both bryceh and RAOF will be there nwo
<pitti> now
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: forgot, you are correct (noted)
<pitti> we'll read it on the wiki later on
<jasoncwarner1> then can we get a drumroll for Unity Update?  :)
<pitti> *drumrolllllllllllll*
<didrocks>  * New unity release this week, with a late release of bamf on Monday fixing a lot of crashes (all my fault, it was a dput awayâ¦)
<didrocks>  * Next release will mean unity by default, ready for A1 (existing Natty user won't be migrated as compiz doesn't allow that: when you use the new compiz version, the list of settings aren't refreshed from the default) and fallback session.
<didrocks>  * Detection is ready, will be pulled with tomorrow compiz snapshot
<didrocks>  * upgrade from maverick and gconf backend will be pulled too as a distro patch and the new compiz snapshot
<didrocks> (there is still this pending gnome-panel issue we should sort of)
<didrocks>  * oh, and UNE has been killed this week :)
<pitti> didrocks: detection> so we'll always start compiz and this then falls back to metacity/panel/etc. somehow? or do we use gnome-wm to figure it out?
<pitti> yay
<didrocks> pitti: depends on what we decides in the thread on ubuntu-desktop ML. We can do that, but we will break users who don't have compiz installed which used "Command Line upgrade" + uninstall
<pitti> ok, let's discuss that on the ML then
<jasoncwarner1> didrocks: existing natty users won't be upgraded to latest compiz this time? Something manual needs to happen? (clarifying for me mostly)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: they will have latest compiz, not latest default settings
<rodrigo_> didrocks, we can patch gnome-wm to select the correct one on detection?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: when compiz dump its settings it's considered as beeing changed by the user
<didrocks> rodrigo_: well, not that simple. I've made some examples in the email I sent latly in ubuntu-desktop ML
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, didn't read it, will do later and answer any idea, if I have one :)
<jasoncwarner1> didrocks: thanks.
<jasoncwarner1> any unity questions?
<jasoncwarner1> Anyone not running Natty or Unity at this point?
 * tremolux raises hand
 * pitti runs natty with standard GNOME
<seb128> I'm not
<tremolux> I plan to do it this week
<seb128> I need a working system ;-)
 * rodrigo_ runs natty with standard gnome also
<chrisccoulson> i'm running standard GNOME too
<pitti> still need to get used to it, and the extra space on the left side
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't work too well with more than 1 monitor either
<didrocks> pitti: autohide launcher + floating bar
<pitti> didrocks: ooh, you can hide the launcher now?
<didrocks> in ccsm
<didrocks> yeah :)
<pitti> nice
<didrocks> there are two options
<tremolux> didrocks: ah!  nice
<didrocks> both are a must-checked! :)
<pitti> then it won't take more space than my gnome panel right now
<jasoncwarner1> Ok...can we agree that for this cycle we would run natty w/ unity to 1. work out bugs with DX team 2. patch where possible and 3. set the example for the world at large! :)
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: I think once A1 is out, it makes sense :)
<pitti> right
<didrocks> wew will have a nice-to-work-on with stable compiz and such
<jasoncwarner1> Cool...thanks, guys...
<jasoncwarner1> btw
<jasoncwarner1> I fully expect an email from Telstra here in AU
<jasoncwarner1> still not full internet...just a 3G card
<jasoncwarner1> I upgraded all my machines on it....
<jasoncwarner1> they probably won't like that since I believe I have a 1 gig limit ;) (free loaner card ;) )
<jasoncwarner1> Anyway...moving on.
<jasoncwarner1> USC update? tremolux?
<tremolux> sure thing
<tremolux> * Startup performance:  great progress this week with startup time reduced well over 1s (~35% improvement on my laptop)
<tremolux>   * Lazy-loading of history view, other optimizations and more on the way
<tremolux>   * Coming soon: automatic daily startup time measurements on reference H/W (Dell Mini 10)
<tremolux>  * Ratings and Reviews:  server-side progress continues, client-side UI spec'd at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/RatingsAndReviews
<tremolux>  * Released Software Center 3.1.2 this week with current performance optimizations and many nice fixes and improvements
<tremolux> that's all  :)
<jasoncwarner1> tremolux: thanks. Any questions?
<jasoncwarner1> Next topic: Release Bugs/Release Status
<pitti> we had the first natty release meeting last Friday
<pitti> so I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> we are falling behind a little on the A1 chart, but nothing too worrying yet
<pitti> and RC bugs are still under control
<pitti> so nothing noteworthy from my side for the meeting; anyone else knows something which we should track at this early point?
<pitti> seems not -> done
<jasoncwarner1> cool....
<jasoncwarner1> Any other business to report before we officially close and give the floor to format discussion?
<jasoncwarner1> I guess not ;)
<jasoncwarner1> Ok. Robert isn't here so I hope I can do his thoughts justice, but everyone should have gotten his email. Any thoughts on meeting format/
<jasoncwarner1> ?
<seb128> was the meeting format in discussion?
<seb128> I had the impression it was rather than the meeting is not enough and that the activity report format is not suited to reflect what we do
<seb128> so that we need to improve communication by taking extra notes or blog
<seb128> or tweat
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: I took it to be that the information provided was useful for some expressed purposes, but not others.
<rodrigo_> or use more the mailing list
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: true...you are right
<pitti> we don't usually have a lot of "custom" agenda items for the meeting, mostly because we seem to discuss stuff as it happens on IRC
<pitti> so the meeting is mostly for information exchange
<pitti> which might not be the ideal channel, since that can just as well be read on the wiki beforehand
<seb128> pitti, one of the concerns robert had was that only people on IRC during european and US hours get those infos
<seb128> we don't have easy summary of what is being worked
<pitti> but I do appreciate the possibility to have everyone online once a week and be able to ask questions
<seb128> what help is needed
<seb128> what people should be aware of, or careful about, etc
<pitti> right, the status updates that we do here shold be on the wiki, too
<pitti> like, kenvandine usually puts them there and copies to IRC
<seb128> did you read robert's email?
<pitti> yes, I did
<seb128> well I think the main point was that we miss a summary of things like
<pitti> so our weekly meeting wiki page should be a kind of weekly status report for people interested in the details
<seb128> "dbusmenu update to gtk3 is being worked by kenvandine but blocked on gir issues"
<seb128> "you might want to be careful about the recent gtk update"
<pitti> but that's the stuff that people shold put into their weekly report, no?
<seb128> well I think we agreed the meeting is useful and don't want to drop it
<seb128> but we need something dynamic which has a day to day summary
<seb128> like something .au guys could read in a few hours when they start their day which tell them what happened today
<seb128> on what they could help
<seb128> that would also be useful to get extra community involvement
<rodrigo_> yeah, that would be useful also for newcomers like me, and community people
<Sarvatt> bryceh, RAOF: sorry I'm in 2 meetings at the same time here but in case it helps for the eastern meeting here's a summary of the X updates last week - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/20101123-X-Updates.txt
<seb128> pitti, dumping what we did once a week doesn't really help people to jump in task or getting help during the week
<seb128> not sure if you see what I mean
<seb128> we have lot of email discussion rounds between a few people recently to get status updates on what's going on with things like some GNOME3 updates
<seb128> or gtk3
<seb128> or dbusmenu gir issues and what is blocking gtk3 builds
<rodrigo_> I think all those discussions should go to the mailing list
<seb128> well mailing list is nice for discussions
<rodrigo_> yeah
<didrocks> issues or help needed -> ML
<seb128> not really for taking a few notes
<seb128> didrocks, not really
<seb128> like robert dropped me some emails last week
<seb128> "start on totem and gtk3 but got blocked by a python crash"
<didrocks> report, few notes or parts of what's going on -> Wiki
<seb128> "started on the rb update but it's crashing"
<seb128> didrocks, I hate wikis
<didrocks> really a day to day?
<pitti> seb128: I see what you mean, but writing day-to-day reports is quite a lot of additional overhead IMHO
<seb128> not reports
<seb128> but just having a whiteboard for people who want to dump notes at least
<seb128> and maybe having somebody blogging interesting things once a way
<seb128> way -> week
<didrocks> some kind of etherpad to annotate and such?
<seb128> didrocks, right
<seb128> we suggested etherpad or status.net
<pitti> besides our firehose of email and IRC that'd be yet another thing to watch out for..
<jasoncwarner1> I think that is why someone suggested status updates (what is that called...status.ubuntu.com? )
<seb128> pitti, nobody ask you to watch for
<seb128> but it could cut some noise from IRC
<didrocks> hum, need to tweet and have another way to be disturbed, but I can understand the rationale
<seb128> well I think the main point is to be able to let other people know things you want to share
<seb128> you can't expect community people to jump in and help solving issue if there is nowhere they can see what needs help
<pitti> they could (and do) ask here?
<seb128> like someone could perhaps help kenvandine to get libdbusmenu work on natty
<seb128> well the point is that ken could write he's blocked
<seb128> so when robert starts his day he knows he could maybe help there
<seb128> I think the main issue is that ie robert_ancell has little clue of how he could be useful
<seb128> he joins after we left
<seb128> and there is nowhere for him to get those infos
<pitti> for this it seems that he and you or me should have at least half an hour of overlap on the day
<pitti> or if not, and you have stuff like that, you could just mail him?
<seb128> well it's not only robert
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: I think that solves the specific problem, but the general problem continues.
<pitti> don't get me wrong, I don't object to other means
<seb128> it could be mterry and robert
<pitti> but it seems this is a rather specific problem and we might be overdesigning stuff here
<seb128> or it could be some contributor who is watching what we do (or not because there is no place now to watch for those)
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: we could be ! :) but it is probably worth talking about
<pitti> we could try a kind of "status whiteboard" where everyone says what they are working on and what's blocking them
<pitti> (as you proposed)
<pitti> when I have stuff like that, I usually just /query people, but that might not work for everyone, of course
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, sorry I feel I hijacked the discussion with my view of the issue
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, you might want to drive back ;-)
<pitti> seb128: you seem to be particularly affected by this, so that was helpful
<seb128> pitti, well part of it is to have things eager contributors could jump in with
<jasoncwarner1> seb128: you are the more appropriate person to have the discussion ;)
<seb128> pitti, like kenvandine's libdbusmenu issue
<pitti> seb128: for contributors I still think that IRC is better than a board; talking to people >> staring at a (potentially outdated) board, but perhaps that's just me
<seb128> there might be some contributor out there which could fix it if he,she knew we were blocked on it
<seb128> or that kenvandine would welcome help to figure what is wrong
<seb128> pitti, well, query people means you reach somebody specific
<seb128> it works fine for a small team
<didrocks> (sorry, have to pop into another meeting, I have no strong opinion on that and will follow you guys, I'll read back)
<pitti> right, I mean as a contributor I could just come to #u-desktop and ask what's up
<seb128> depending on the time of the day and who is around or busy that will work or not
<cyphermox> pitti, it can feel a little daunting to new contributors, especially towards the end of the release when things get really busy :)
<pitti> well, let's just say that I'm willing to try something, but don't have proposals on my own, since apparenlty I don't have that problem so much
<jasoncwarner1> How about this, to limit the scope of the initial challenge, focus on the team and see if it works ?
<jasoncwarner1> if it works, we can see if that same solution works on a broader sense?
<jasoncwarner1> that might be helpful so we don't start to chase ourselves down the rabbit hole....
<cyphermox> would it make sense for a different person each week to somewhat keep track of what goes on and publish that somewhere?
<tremolux> seems we are just talking about adding something "sticky", so maybe start lightweight with an etherpad page and add the link to the "If you want to help out" list at the IRC header
<pitti> cyphermox: we already have the weekly wiki page for that
<cyphermox> pitti, right
<pitti> there's certainly ways to improve that
<seb128> right
<pitti> and we probably should start to mail that around again
<seb128> ok, I see we have several issues and I raised only one there
<pitti> (we did in the past)
<seb128> so issues are
<seb128> - the activity report are focussed on describing what we did task by task
<seb128> where they would better be "things that readers could be interested in"
<seb128> like coming transitions, breakages
<seb128> important technologies landing
<seb128> we do list all the updates we did, sponsoring, etc
<seb128> we should maybe change that
<pitti> well, I try to do that already
<pitti> I don't mention stuff like email, bug triaging, archive admin, SRU processing etc. any more
<seb128> I don't, or didn't until robert pointed it
<pitti> but I do write stuff like "fix startup crash in foo (#123)" or "port foo to libbar"
<seb128> right
<pitti> indeed it shouldn't be a time sheet
<seb128> but we don't write things like libdbus soname breakage coming next week, be ready
 * jasoncwarner1 notes time. I have to run to a call in a few minutes
<seb128> ok
<jasoncwarner1> how about this
<pitti> seb128: right, we could/should add that to the report
<pitti> "Done:", "blocked by:", "plan for next week:"
<pitti> ?
<jasoncwarner1> final action from this meeting would be for all of us to think about this for the week, watch our daily activities and see how it can be improved given this discussion? It might be interesting?
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: I love that format
<seb128> pitti, would be a nice start I think
<jasoncwarner1> especially "blocked by"
<seb128> if you read the second email from robert, how do we get there
<seb128> "* x new bugs were opened, y were closed
<seb128> * We completed x items in the work tracker.  We are ahead of the trend
<seb128> line.
<seb128> * x packages were updated in natty."
<seb128> etc
<bryceh> seb128, that bit is scriptable
<seb128> or rather things like
<seb128> "* Remmina has replaced tsclient on the CD, please try it an let us
<seb128> know if it is an improvement.
<seb128> * We are behind in updating GNOME, please have a look at
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html and help
<seb128> out if you can"
<seb128> the first ones are regular tracking
<rodrigo_> in the u1 team, we did quick daily standups, with DONE, TODO, BLOCKED sections for each person
<pitti> are the stats really taht interesting?
<seb128> but I think one things we lack is a nice summary of what is happening
<seb128> something we could blog about once a week
<seb128> like having a desktop world blog
<seb128> pitti, no, I picked the wrong lines
<rodrigo_> not sure if daily is too much, but they were 5/10 mins maximum
<bryceh> pitti, I don't think so.  Personally I think a graph would be better but even that is just for interest's sake really.
<rodrigo_> and you knew what everyone was up to
<seb128> not sure either
<pitti> bryceh: I agree; it's more interesting what changed than how much; and #opened bugs isn't really all that related to what we do, too
<bryceh> desktop world blog -- like it :-)
<seb128> robert suggested that
<seb128> pitti, bryceh: yeah, forget the metrics datas
<pitti> rodrigo_: doesn't work that well with having people in all timezones
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> but at least the eastern people could have a daily updater of what the western people are up to, and viceversa
<seb128> so let's agree on some things to wrap
<pitti> but such a summary could certainly be distilled from the individual reports on the weekly wiki report page
<bryceh> problem with 'distilling' is that it imposes some secretarial work on some poor soul
<seb128> is everybody ok with making the activity summaries reflect what would interest readers or contributors rather than being task lists?
<bryceh> and with as many people are there are on the desktop team, that'd be non-trivial
<seb128> which would include blocking issues and plans for next week if any?
<bryceh> seb128, yes
<pitti> seb128: +1
<pitti> leave out the chore bits, and be more concrete
<seb128> ok, great, so that's something
<seb128> second, seems we need extra discussions
<pitti> in the past I wrote stuff like "udev bug fixing", I now siwtched to "fix detection of DVD-RWs in udev"
<seb128> but some people would like a whiteboard in some way
<bryceh> needs more voting ;-)
<seb128> etherpad, status.net
<seb128> nobody would be forced to use it
<seb128> but people could drop things they are blocking on
<seb128> or tasks they would welcome help with
<seb128> we can see if others pick those or if that's useful in some way
<seb128> like an async light communication way out of IRC
<bryceh> pitti, in fact we might even need to be a bit more verbose than usual if we intend it to be end-user readable
<seb128> for people who don't overlap on IRC
<pitti> bryceh: right, but in a different way; drop the uninteresting bits and make the interesting ones more verbose
<bryceh> pitti, exactly
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so I think we have agreement on that one at least
<bryceh> seb128, I like the idea of etherpad but I wonder if that might not be the easiest for end users to consume from.  Would someone be copying from there into a blog?
<seb128> we need extra thinking about the whiteboard one
<seb128> bryceh, that was my next point
<seb128> ideally we would have someone each week doing a summary and blog or something
<seb128> we could rotate on that
<seb128> I don't really want to add extra tasks so maybe an opt-in from those interested
<bryceh> I mean, we could just each write a blog entry, and then mechanically collate them via a planetplanet
<seb128> could be community people as well
<seb128> well if people want to blog they can already do that
<seb128> but seems most in the team don't and I don't think we should add constrains or tasks
<bryceh> seb128, I recall back when I started on desktop we would write up meeting summaries, but it was hard getting volunteers and somehow we stopped doing that
<pitti> right, they were pretty much a text dump of the weekly wiki page
<bryceh> so that's my one worry with adding a summary writing task
<seb128> right
<pitti> so if we make the wiki page more useful, that woudl be beneficial again, too
<seb128> well maybe if we improve the activity report enough and have an etherpad
<seb128> it would be easier for contributors or people outside the team to pick up and make a nice weekly summary
<bryceh> yeah might be that fixing up activity reports is less work than writing meeting summaries had been
<seb128> well if activity reports are nice it would be easy for someone to pick up the main points and blog or something
<seb128> we might not need everything from the report
<seb128> just a few highlights
<pitti> (and include a link)
<bryceh> how about rotate the task among desktoppers who are not doing patch pilot?  ;-)
<bryceh> (kidding!)
<seb128> lol
 * tremolux dreams to grow up to be a Patch Pilot someday
<tremolux> :D
<seb128> anyway I think we are going round now
<seb128> so let's agree to improve the activity report summary
<bryceh> yeah sounds like we have a tangible enough plan
<seb128> we can add the whiteboard or status.net for those who want
<seb128> and let's see if we can motivate some contributor to pick up things from there and blog every now and then about what we do
<seb128> one remaining thing
<seb128> I find the unity, software-center, dx etc summary nice
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> we should maybe have everybody in the team to do a short summary this way
<seb128> of things they are doing
<seb128> or maybe that's just "get the activity reports nicer"
<pitti> was just going to say :)
<seb128> maybe those should be the activity report from didrocks's week or tremolux's one
<tremolux> back when I rotated to foundations, we called it "lightning round"
<pitti> we actually did that in the past
<pitti> I mean, haveing everyone standing up and paste their report
<seb128> well I think we got bored to read those on IRC
<seb128> or to wait from everybody to copy their summary
<seb128> so maybe it should just be on the wiki
<seb128> I think we are back to improve the activity reports
<seb128> so let's wrap up ;-)
<seb128> and see what we can do from those
<seb128> we can probably learn a bit over time by seeing what format people come with exactly and what is nicer to read
<bryceh> oh one other suggestion
<seb128> I've the feeling that summaries to the one we do for unity etc every week now are what we want
<bryceh> more screenshots, graphs, and other eye candy please :-)
<seb128> summaries similar
<bryceh> they'll make the reading more fun, and wiki supports embedding them
<seb128> yeah, that would be nice as well
<seb128> anybody having something to add?
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, when you are back, I think we agreed on trying to improve the activity reports to be summary of what can be interesting to readers including blockers and what is coming next
<seb128> rather than detailed list of items
<seb128> with screenshots, etc if possible
<seb128> jasoncwarner1, we might still want to think about how we could do dump day to day thoughts, ideas, call for help on issues, etc for next week
<seb128> then we might want to try to see if can reach users in a better way than having them to go on the wiki
<seb128> like select week highlights in the weekly summary and the whiteboard and blog about them
<seb128>  
<seb128> ^ seems a correct summary to everybody?
<mterry> yar
<bryceh> yep
<rodrigo_> yes
<didrocks> yes!
 * didrocks will add a blocker: "read the ubuntu-desktop ML" right now on the wiki :)
<seb128> great, sorry for being verbose ;-)
<seb128> lol
<bryceh> hehe
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> didrocks, good point as well
<seb128> we might want to move some of the discussions from IRC to lists
<rodrigo_> +1
<seb128> seems people get overpinged nowadays and we don't have everybody online at the same time
<seb128> so we can probably reduce ping stress and include extra people in discussions by using the lists
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> ok, back to work
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you get somewhere with gnome-applets?
<seb128> jcastro, hey
<jcastro> seb128: yes
<seb128> jcastro, did you talk to tomboy's upstream since summit?
<seb128> jcastro, do you know if he still plans to drop the applet this cycle?
<rodrigo_> seb128, still fixing the invest applet, the package branch is ready but don't want to submit it until that is fixed
<jcastro> about the quicklist thing?
<jcastro> yeah, let me catch up with him again, I know he was behind on some things
<didrocks> cyphermox: did you get somewhere with the e-d-s crash?
<seb128> jcastro, I just want to make sure I will not create conflicts if I drop it in Ubuntu let's say now
<didrocks> cyphermox: at least, if I can upload that before leaving, this will enable the other dep-wait to build
<seb128> jcastro, when rodrigo_'s land his fixes for the invest applet we can get ride of the bonobo stack this way
 * tremolux goes in search of lunch, bbl
<seb128> jcastro, it's only a few applets keeping that in, tomboy being one
<jcastro> seb128: ok, we can drop it
<jcastro> he's going to continue to support it upstream for older stuff
<jcastro> seb128: so I guess even in the fallback mode the applets will be gone?
<seb128> jcastro, no, there is a bonobo compat binary
<seb128> jcastro, we will just not install it by default
<seb128> jcastro, if somebody wants an old applet there is just that binary to get
<seb128> which will reinstall bonobo
<jcastro> oh ok
<seb128> jcastro, that and gnome-panel applets use dbus nowadays
<jcastro> nod
<cyphermox> didrocks, yes
<jcastro> ok so I guess drop it next upload seb128?
<seb128> so people can also port their applet to dbus
<seb128> jcastro, yes
<jcastro> he's had it off by default in upstream for a cycle he tells me
<seb128> ok great
<jcastro> are we going to have a party when Bonobo is gone?
<rodrigo_> seb128, another review needed -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-bluetooth/2_91_2_release/+merge/41620
<seb128> if you want ;-)
<jcastro> I feel kind of ... sad. (Not really)
<rodrigo_> jcastro, yes :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I'm fixing g-c-c
<chrisccoulson> did somebody just say PARTY? :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, what was wrong?you already merged it right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I did, I'm doing a review now
<seb128> rodrigo_, comments:
<seb128> - you should not install the .la and .a for all the panels
<seb128> just the .so should be enough
<didrocks> cyphermox: hum, I'm leaving soon, so my question was: do you have the patch or a debdiff? :)
<seb128> - the libg-c-c api documentation should be in a the lib -dev
<cyphermox> hold on, I have a debdiff
<seb128> not in capplets-data
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> - we should still have a gnome-control-center-dev I think
<seb128> to ship gnome-default-applications.pc and gnome-keybindings.pc
<rodrigo_> seb128, right
<rodrigo_> seb128, are you fixing these or should I in another branch?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think that's it for now
<seb128> rodrigo_, as you want
<seb128> if you want to fix those tell me
<seb128> otherwise I can do it
<rodrigo_> seb128, let me fix it, so that I learn more :)
<seb128> ok ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can update standards-version to 3.9.1 while you are at it
<seb128> rodrigo_, configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-aboutme, --enable-gstreamer
<seb128> as well to clean in the rules
<cyphermox> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/535617/
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, bonus point if you add a .symbols to the lib
<didrocks> cyphermox: thanks, applying against the branch
<cyphermox> didrocks, sorry, i trashed the branch as I was preparing the SRUs :/
<didrocks> cyphermox: you should keep subdirectories with component/<ubuntu>;<maverick> and suchâ¦
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can probably as well drop the gnome-keyboard-properties.1 from the debian dir
<didrocks> cyphermox: no worry, I applied it and build now
<seb128> rodrigo_, since the binary is not in the new version
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think that's it
<cyphermox> didrocks, I do use subdirectories for this stuff ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: seems not the right worflow then :)
<didrocks> ok, building, let's see
<cyphermox> hehe
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, will fix those later, now out for a bit
<seb128> rodrigo_, sure, tomorrow is fine no hurry
<highvoltage> howdy!
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<highvoltage> we synced sabayon from debian which depends on gdm3
<seb128> kenvandine, what is the status of the updates from ted? still blocked?
<seb128> highvoltage, hey
<seb128> highvoltage, we might want to patch it to not do that then
<highvoltage> what's the plans for natty regarding that? should we wait for gdm3 to hit the archives or is Ubuntu staying with the old gdm until it gets replaced by something like lightdm?
<seb128> old gdm?
<kenvandine> still blocked
<kenvandine> but he is working on it now
<seb128> ubuntu is shipped gdm3 as gdm for 3 cycles
<seb128> shipping
<highvoltage> seb128: I was convinced that it was 2.30! ok.
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, could you open a bug about the issue if that's not solved today?
<kenvandine> sure
<didrocks> cyphermox: sponsored, thanks!
<seb128> highvoltage, what debian call gdm3 is 2.30
<cyphermox> thx
<seb128> highvoltage, http://packages.qa.debian.org/gdm3
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<highvoltage> seb128: ah, ok. in that case I'll just patch the package, thanks!
<seb128> kenvandine, we might just have better visibility on the issue and people able to help if we have public tracking in a bug
<seb128> highvoltage, thank you!
<highvoltage> my pleasure
<ari-tczew> seb128: what? gdm3 will be in ubuntu? I'm asking because I merged a couple of days ago meta-gnome2 and I had to change gdm3 => gdm since we have not gdm3 in archive
<seb128> no
<seb128> it's named gdm in ubuntu
<seb128> the standard gdm is gdm3
<highvoltage> ari-tczew: seems like the debian package just has a different name (gdm3) for what's called gdm in ubuntu
<highvoltage> (so you did the right thing)
<highvoltage> seb128: would it perhaps make sense to make gdm in ubuntu provide gdm3 rather than patching all these other packages?
<highvoltage> (I guess there will be more)
<ari-tczew> right, I see no sense
<seb128> highvoltage, well, if our packaging is compatible
<seb128> "   * 02_xsession.patch: use /etc/gdm3/Xsession."
<seb128> I see that in sabayon
<seb128> which suggests the packaging is different
<highvoltage> ah, I see
<seb128> having a provides would suggest things would work when they don't
<highvoltage> seb128: ok, I'll change the dependency to gdm then and remove the patches
<seb128> highvoltage, thanks
<kenvandine> mterry, just looking at launchpad-integration
<kenvandine> it might be a good idea to add this to lib/Makefile.am
<kenvandine> LaunchpadIntegration_3_0_gir_PACKAGES = launchpad-integration
<kenvandine> just in case at somepoint vapigen can't figure out the package, we don't need to try to figure out why :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<kenvandine> later didrocks!
<didrocks> see you kenvandine!
<chrisccoulson> pitti - so xulrunner-2.0-mozjs has an installed size of 3664kB. that compares to 39964kB for the whole lot
<chrisccoulson> not sure what that works out as in terms of compressed size on the CD
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, nice!
<mterry> kenvandine, thanks
<albasheers> unable to boot my latop  , laptop stops at initramfs
<dobey> albasheers: #ubuntu is probably a more appropriate place to ask
<albasheers> ok
<bcurtiswx> bigon, re: bug #620733 is there a decision that needs to be made that makes dconf depends instead of recommends ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 620733 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy does not remember settings (affects: 12) (dups: 3) (heat: 70)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620733
<bigon> bcurtiswx: well dconf is only a backend
<bcurtiswx> bigon, without it setting are or are not stored somewhere?
<Nafallo> without libdconf0 my settings didn't get saved for sure.
<bigon> it's why it's a recommends
<bcurtiswx> so our assumption in that case is most package managers install recommends by default ?
<bigon> they should
<bigon> This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
<bigon> The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations.
<bcurtiswx> so do we just say to those without libdconf0 installed that its not a bug , and to install it and recommend they keeps recommends installed ?
<bigon> well if the package is not pulled by default this is a problem, that's true
<Nafallo> bigon: so we are assuming there will be people out there that want their application to not be able to save it's settings, is that the takeaway of the conversation then?
<bigon> but not on the pkg side, but on the pkg manager side
<bigon> IMHO
<bcurtiswx> bigon, OK. thanks :)
<Nafallo> in this specific case I'd say it's a packaging bug... saving and reading settings should not be optional actions.
<Nafallo> recommends and suggestions should be for optional actions I'd say.
<bigon> Nafallo: recommends is "always installed but unusual installation"
<bigon> that seems to fit here
<Nafallo> bigon: point out the unusual installation where you want the application to not save and read your settings?
<Nafallo> I know what recommends are for. my issue with this is that I'm unable to see where it would make sense not being able to save your settings.
<bigon> use another backend
<bigon> that's the unusual installation
<Nafallo> I would be happy to keep using gconf for empathy, but without libdconf0, the package doesn't fall back to gconf.
<Nafallo> make it do that, and I wouldn't consider libdconf0 a dependency.
<Nafallo> it needs to be able to fall back gracefully. not break and let the user find out why.
<Nafallo> I'd be a lot happier with a depency of <what gconf package is> | libdconf0 and whatever else the application will automagically fall back on
<Nafallo> in the current state,  the application is in a broken state unless libdconf0 is installed. how can this not be a grave enough issue to make it a depency?
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: thanks again, the updated xulrunner-1.9.2 works here :)
<bigon> Nafallo: well I'm not even sure that empathy should even recommends it, that should be IMHO glib package (dconf is a backend of GSettings, a glib part)
<bigon> and to say everything I'm not even sure I've the rights to upload emapthy
<Nafallo> hmm. so empathy should use gsettings by default and that should in turn find out where to store stuff? :-)
<Nafallo> (all I know the application is broken without libdconf0 installed today, which makes bugs valid)
<bigon> Nafallo: empathy is already using gsettings
<Nafallo> bigon: hmm. so this is really a bug in gsettings not falling back to whatever backend is available then? :-)
<Nafallo> cause that makes more sense to me.
<Nafallo> hrm. actually... it would have to be more fun than that, wouldn't it :-/
 * Nafallo goes to read up on gsettings
<seb128> re
<bigon> Nafallo: it's not falling back because there is no backend
<seb128> Nafallo, catching up on backlog
<seb128> Nafallo, dconf is a recommends because you could have your own backend and use that
<seb128> we should probably do depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
<seb128> we should probably do depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
<seb128> ups
<Nafallo> seb128: there you are! I was looking for you just now ;-)
<seb128> well that's what said last cycle at the sprint
<seb128> we just didn't get anybody in debian to buy in
<Nafallo> seb128: if I read live.g.o correctly dconf is supposed to be the fallback? :-)
<Nafallo> (for gsettings)
<seb128> well it's the recommended backend for GNOME
<seb128> but it's only one backend
<bigon> I'm still wondering why dconf is not installed by default as recommends
<seb128> so having a depends on it would be wrong
<Nafallo> and gconf is deprecated, but can be a backend of gsettings?
<seb128> well people like Nafallo probably use the command line to upgrade
<seb128> they might decide to not install recommends by default
<seb128> Nafallo, no it can't
<Nafallo> seb128: not only that. I try to keep minimal packages installed, so recommends is high on my hit list ;-)
<bcurtiswx> yeah i upgrade through apt-get, does apt-get install recommends b y default ?
<seb128> it does
<seb128> but reading through bugs I would not be surprised if there was buggy cases
<seb128> especially when upgrading
<seb128> like you had empathy install and you upgrade
<seb128> it might not pick the new recommends
<bcurtiswx> well if Nafallo is right and it defaults to dconf, then shouldn't that be depends ?
<seb128> it would pick it if you did apt-get install it when it was not installed
<bcurtiswx> because settings _need_ to be saved somehow
<seb128> bcurtiswx, not without a | gsettings-backend
<seb128> because you might be in a company which decide to do a ldap-gsettings
<seb128> and you want to remove dconf and use it
<seb128> which works
<seb128> you should not have to rebuild everything using gsettings to drop the dconf backend depends
<Nafallo> seb128: so... just because I just thought about it... say you have dconf with a lot of settings installed. then you install one of these other backends... what happens to all the settings?
<seb128> Nafallo, I guess nothing
<seb128> you need migration code in your backend
<bcurtiswx> what backend does empath use by default ?
<seb128> gsettings
<Nafallo> (which is not the backend) :-)
<seb128> well client application don't use a backend
<seb128> that's the point
<seb128> they should not have to bother what the storage is
<Nafallo> the question needs to be what gsettings use by default
<seb128> they use the gsettings api
<Nafallo> but yeah... seb128 has said what we need ;-)
<seb128> it's a theorical question
<seb128> gsettings is a backend
<bigon> what I can do is conflicts/replaces/provides gsettings-backend on dconf
<seb128> it just doesn't have storage
<bcurtiswx> OK, so onto what bigon and myself are wondering.. why wouldn't dconf get installed on a fresh install ?
<seb128> which is fine for testing but that's about it
<seb128> in practice you want a backend with storage
<seb128> the only one is dconf so far I think
<seb128> if you had several ones you would need to rank them
<seb128> but that's a theorical issue so far because we have one
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it gets installed on fresh installs
<seb128> out of people who think they know better and don't need recommends
<seb128> which might use command line and turn off recommends
<Nafallo> I bet I de-installed it because I thought "crack, just use gconf, you muppet!" :-P
<kenvandine> tedg, hey... i might have dbusmenu gir generation fixed
<seb128> well you got what you deserved then ;-)
<seb128> joke aside it's a bug
<kenvandine> for both gtk2 and gtk3
<kenvandine> tedg, let me send you the resulting file and see what you think
<bigon> seb128: so libglib2.0-0 should depends on it
<bcurtiswx> seb128, i have a bug where someone says it did not.  I wouldn't know what to ask in a triage standpoint
<seb128> bigon, no
<tedg> kenvandine, Woot!
<Nafallo> seb128: je t'aime tu aussi ;-)
<seb128> lol
<Nafallo> bah. that was likely very broken for being french :-P
<bigon> s/tu/toi :p
<seb128> not very,
<seb128> -tu rather
<seb128> but "toi" would be correct at least
<seb128> just a bit weird ;-)
<Nafallo> heh, makes sense :-)
<Nafallo> I'll do better next time you troll me :-P
<seb128> well really applications should depends on dconf | gsettings-backend
<seb128> then other backends can provide gsettings backend
<seb128> if any other backend is written
<seb128> which would solve the issue
<Nafallo> hmm.
<Nafallo> seb128: gsettings isn't a package in itself? :-)
<seb128> no
<seb128> it's part of glib
<kenvandine> tedg, i sent it via jabber...
<seb128> that's why we don't want to add the depends there
<Nafallo> meh
<Nafallo> okay.
<seb128> lot of things use glib but not gio or gsettings
<Nafallo> seb128: so... why can't dconf just be a gsettings-backend, fulfilling stuff depending on gsettings-backend that way?
<seb128> because the usual packaging way is to use "thepreferredalternative | provide"
<seb128> so the resolver picks correctly the preferred alternative
<seb128> if you just use the provide you don't get a random behaviour when several provides are available
<seb128> don't -> do
<seb128> it's like "install dconf if not asking for another backend"
<seb128> when your way would be "just pick one"
 * Nafallo nods
<bigon> seb128: in that case we need an extra wrapper (like for gconf) to add the dependency automatically don't we?
<Nafallo> and we haven't got an alternative approach to that I guess :-P
<seb128> it would be better to add it to the same way gconf is doing yes
<Nafallo> seb128: hey... we should ask mvo to implement an alternative approach to this problem! ;-)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, so what would we do for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/620733
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 620733 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy does not remember settings (affects: 12) (dups: 3) (heat: 70)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> it's not a glib bug in any case
<seb128> there is probably an apt bug there
<seb128> it seems it doesn't install recommends in upgrade cases
<seb128> which should be checked it's just a guess
<Nafallo> seb128: I still don't agree it is a recommends :-)
<Nafallo> (fwiw)
<bcurtiswx> who are the apt people to ask ?
<seb128> but seems like if you had empathy installed and apt-get upgrade it doesn't bring the new recommends in
 * bcurtiswx has killed seb128 again
<tedg> kenvandine, That looks sane to me.
<kenvandine> great
<Nafallo> bcurtiswx: maybe he got distracted by tetris...
<kenvandine> tedg, i did some fiddling with scanner flags
<kenvandine> tedg, i'll propose a merge in a few
<tedg> kenvandine, Cool
<bcurtiswx> wb seb128
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the apt person is probably mvo
<bcurtiswx> that semicircle with a line in the opening is not a solve-all problem ya know :P
<seb128> Nafallo, yeah, I agree, it should be a depends with an alternative
<kenvandine> seb128, ok, i think i have the gir stuff with dbusmenu fixed
<kenvandine> for both gtk2 and gtk3
<seb128> kenvandine, you rock ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, what was it?
<kenvandine> so i'll propose this branch then try to get the packaging right
<bcurtiswx> when is mvo usually available ?
<kenvandine> scanner flags
<kenvandine> needed to add more
<Nafallo> seb128: +555
<kenvandine> to get the namespaces right
<seb128> bcurtiswx, european work hours
<bcurtiswx> UTC +2/3 ?
<seb128> utc+1
<seb128> starting at 9utc
<bcurtiswx> OK, i'll try to remember to talk to him about that bug tomorrow
<seb128> or a bit a before
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> of course now gtk-docs don't build
 * kenvandine fixes
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, so easy enough once you know what to do
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> just the results we were getting were odd
<kenvandine> GIR is maturing, becoming more complex :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128, im assuming webkitgtk is still having problems building ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the gtk3 version is in the ppa
<seb128> if that's what you are asking there
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you should have what you need to update empathy I would think
<seb128> gnome-keyring and webkit are in the ppa
<bcurtiswx> OK, the ubuntu-desktop PPA ?
<bcurtiswx> ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa ?
<seb128> the gnome3 build there yes
<seb128> no, there is a specific for the gnome3 builds
<seb128> check on the launchpad page for the team
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds
<seb128> bcurtiswx, ^
<bcurtiswx> seb128, thanks
<seb128> yw
<bcurtiswx> hmm, apt is trying to remove evolution
 * Nafallo taps apt on the head. good program!
<Nafallo> ;-)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, didn't check why but wait a bit for the new version to be built
<seb128> you probably catch a time where some components are built but not evo itself yet
<bcurtiswx> yeah I am, it usually calms down after an hour or two of catch up
<bigon> seb128: I will open a wishlist bug on debian bts to add a dh_gsettings into debhelper, ok for you?
<seb128> seems fine yes
<seb128> thank you
<pitti> good night everyone
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<kenvandine> tedg, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/dbusmenu/natty-gtk3-fixes/+merge/41658
<bcurtiswx> i'm assuming all empathy patches because they were written in gtk2 will need extensive work to make them gtk3 ?
<bcurtiswx> or is there some kind of tool to use ?
<seb128> they should not
<seb128> gtk2 and gtk3 are mostly the same
<seb128> if you build on gtk2 without deprecated api use you build with gtk3
<seb128> you just need to change the configure to do gtk2->gtk3 or so
<bcurtiswx> configure.ac ?
<TheMuso> kenvandine: Congrats!
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: g-s-d is in lucid-proposed. will be build soon. go ahead ;)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, yes
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it's slightly harder than that but most of the code should be identic
<kenvandine> TheMuso, thx
<bcurtiswx> so best case scenario patches are just off by a lot and should be OK
<bcurtiswx> i'll cross my fingers
<Amaranth> Technically what seb128 said is true, so far, but deprecating a ton of stuff in the last 2.x GTK+ release is cheating a bit
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i try to use a 2nd terminal window and i get the error *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
<bcurtiswx> file doesn't exist
<bcurtiswx> maybe a restart.. would help?
<bcurtiswx> yeah odd, now i see it upon terminal load.. *** VTE ***: Failed to load terminal capabilities from '/etc/termcap'
<bcurtiswx> and i can't hit enter to submit any commands
<bcurtiswx> lol
<bcurtiswx> fixed, just touch that file and no more errors and/or problems
<kieppie> hi guys. does anyone know of an HTML5-based window manager?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-24
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so far as I can tell, gedit is still using ui_manager instead of a builder, can that be right?
<rickspencer3> (I'm working on a plugin)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I don't know, but a lot of programs do seem to use UIManager
<rickspencer3> I thought that was all getting thrown out for Gnome 3.0
<rickspencer3> everything needs to switch to builder
 * rickspencer3 googles
<robert_ancell> it's still in git master.  Yes, I agree!
<rickspencer3> hmmm, I guess just getting rid of libglade, but doesn't say anything about UIManager
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, is UIManager part of libglade?
 * rickspencer3 bangs head on gnome docks
<rickspencer3> docs, even
<robert_ancell> no
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> gtk.UIManager â construct menus and toolbars from an XML description (new in PyGTK 2.4)
<rickspencer3> suggests they are related
<robert_ancell> it seems to me to be a cut-down GtkBuilder, which must surely be considered obsolete
<rickspencer3> well, so far as I can tell, it's what gedit is built with, at least in the plugin API
<rickspencer3> I'm going to change my code to just build things DOM Style, so it will be easy to change if they change gedit
<rickspencer3> hi mterry
<mterry> rickspencer3, hi
<rickspencer3> hey robert_ancell can I ask you a quick gtk questions ...
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sure
<rickspencer3> if I create widgets on the fly, and connect to signal handlers as I do so
<rickspencer3> then I later remove the widgets
<rickspencer3> does the connected signal handler mean I am leaking each new widget?
<rickspencer3> in other words, so I need to track and disconnect the signal handlers?
<robert_ancell> I don't believe a signal handler holds a reference to the object, so no.  As long as you destroy the objects, then you shouldn't get any more signals.
<mclasen> you leak the signal handler itself, though
<mclasen> g_signal_connect_object was supposed to take care of that, but its buggy and has never been fixed
<rickspencer3> mclasen, could you explain?
<robert_ancell> mclasen, really?  Is the signal table no part of the object?
<mclasen> no
<mclasen> its a global list
<rickspencer3> so I am growing this table of widgets to signals?
<rickspencer3> well, widgets to functions
<rickspencer3> and even though the widget is deleted and can't activated, the table continues to grow if I don't use disconnect?
<mclasen> you are growing the list of Handler structs
<rickspencer3> even in PyGtk?
<mclasen> you are expected to disconnect from signals that you connected to
<mclasen> don't know if pygtk has any automatic cleanup for that
<rickspencer3> ok, so I have to find a place to keep the signal handler id when I remove the widgets :(
<robert_ancell> mclasen, thanks, I didn't know it was like that
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<rickspencer3> so much bookkeeping
<rickspencer3> thanks mclasen and robert_ancell
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Good morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey RAOF
<RAOF> What's up in groove town?
<didrocks> well, trying to play and fight gnome-session/gnome-panel without a lot of success until then :)
<didrocks> also, snowing a little :)
<didrocks> and for you?
<RAOF> Subduing mesa.
<RAOF> It's pretty thoroughly subdued now.
<RAOF> I'll be looking for a sponsor for it, and an accompanying -radeon DDX upload soon.  Just as soon as my r700 system upgrades to natty so I can test it :)
<didrocks> oh nice!
<didrocks> keep us up to date once testing and done so that we can sponsor you :)
<RAOF> That'll probably even drop the CD size down so it'll actually fit on a Cd :)
<didrocks> it wasn't before?
<RAOF> pitti seemed to be scrounging for space.  More than usual, too.
<RAOF> Yeah, all the CDs look to be oversize at the moment.
<RAOF> Oooh, ow.  By 30MB, too.
<RAOF> Installed-Size: 15112 vs Installed-Size: 43004 will help a bit.
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> And a fine morning to you also pitti
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti :)
<didrocks> RAOF: and there is no unity!
<didrocks> RAOF: tomorrow will be really ugly :)
<RAOF> There's plenty of unity here, although that seems to be because I'm using the ini backend to compiz :)
<didrocks> RAOF: well, you should switch to gconf, one the migration is done :)
<didrocks> which will come soon
<RAOF> I'm not sure why mine was set to ini.  I must have set it sometime in the dim and distant past.
<RAOF> Does compiz now start when using the gconf backend? :)
<didrocks> RAOF: depends, if you whip your old configuration, yes, otherwise noâ¦ but you will be a nice guinee pig (is it the right spelling?) for the migration script :)
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: the process: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<pitti> jasoncwarner1: the requirements: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<jasoncwarner1> pitti: awesome, thanks
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner1
<jasoncwarner1> didrocks: morning!
<didrocks> pitti: can you NEW e-d-s please?
<pitti> didrocks: sure
<didrocks> thanks :)
<pitti> seems that right after the sdl bug was fixed, this is now breaking CD builds :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, no powerpc binaries yet? anyway, accepted
<didrocks> argh, sorry for that, I was thinking uploading evo now is better than later this week :)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, don't worry
<pitti> it was just a funny coincidence
<pitti> (funny at this point in the release cycle :) )
<didrocks> right :)
<didrocks> and tomorrowâ¦ it will be unity on the CD!
<didrocks> (hoping it won't break it)
<pitti> \o/
<rodrigo__> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<jasoncwarner1> didrocks: so, before I sign off for the night...is today the day? Unity by default ? ;)
<bilalakhtar> Package rhythmbox depends on NBS package valac-0.10 and libvala-0.10-dev . Is it ready for a migration to valac-0.12?
 * bilalakhtar tries a test build with the new version
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: will rather be tomorrow :)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: need to finish some profiles work and a lot of headaches :)
<jasoncwarner1> 'aight :) I guess it is a Thanksgiving day thing for the American folks! ;) good time, I suppose! :P
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: "perfect" timing right :)
<jasoncwarner1> :)
<jasoncwarner1> well, that is it for me then. Talk to you guys tomorrow my time, afternoon your time !
<didrocks> jasoncwarner1: have a nice evening/night!
<seb128> hey didrocks jasoncwarner1
<didrocks> good morning seb128
<rodrigo_> need to restart, brb
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, how are you?
<seb128> rodrigo_, what do you work on?
<rodrigo_> fine, thanks, and you?
<seb128> I'm fine thank you
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm trying to finish the invest applet thing before leaving it for more days
<rodrigo_> talking with carlos, the guy who wrote did part of the libpanel-applet-3 thing
<seb128> you are having some holidays?
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, yes soon there are a few national holidays
<rodrigo_> and in Dec, going out for a week
<rodrigo_> seb128, you?
<seb128> there is no national holidays coming there
<seb128> but I plan to take fridays until end of year
<rodrigo_> btw, need to enter the national holidays in canonicaladmin
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, cool
<seb128> then do an end of year break as well
<rodrigo_> here there are 3 holidays coming, 3rd, 6th and 8th Dec :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, well you say finishing the invest applet thing before letting it for some extra days, does it mean you are on vac tomorrow and friday...?
 * rodrigo_ submits them
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh no, just that it's been too long, and really want to fix it :)
<seb128> great
<seb128> I really want to get that landing as well
<rodrigo_> yeah, I really think the typelib is wrong for libpanel-applet-3
<seb128> so we can uninstall libbonoboui easily ;-)
<rodrigo_> it complains about PanelApplet.Applet.factory_main not existing, but it's indeed in the gir generated
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will review gnome-keyring in the ppa btw
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> I might just fix things on the way, I don't want to dump to many things on your list
<rodrigo_> will fix the g-c-c issues later
<seb128> you should get gnome-applets done and fix the gnome-control-center issues from yesterday
<rodrigo_> ok, just let me know what was wrong, so that I learn more
<bilalakhtar> Rb in Ubuntu depends on NBS valac-0.10 and libvala-0.10-dev. Is it ready for a migration to valac-0.12 (now in Ubuntu) ?
<seb128> ok, seems fine to me
 * bilalakhtar is already test-building it
<seb128> bilalakhtar, there is a 0.13.2 update in the work
<seb128> bilalakhtar, it's in the vcs
<seb128> it was blocked on a crash
<bilalakhtar> seb128: it has been uploaded as well, I guess
<seb128> no
<seb128> upload was pending on getting a crash fixed
<bilalakhtar> okay then
<bilalakhtar> since in the vcs, that upload is shown as 'natty' rather than UNRELEASED
<seb128> well I think the idea is that it was supposed to be uploaded
<seb128> but it didn't because of the bug
<seb128> I will sort that today
<didrocks> rodrigo_: do you know who should I ping from u1 team (I want to know which desktop file to set in the unity launcher by default)?
<seb128> didrocks, try aquarius?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, let's see when he's online :)
<seb128> aquarius, ^
<seb128> didrocks, otherwise seems the sort of task you can ping kenvandine about
<seb128> he's the desktoper in charge of interactions with u1
<didrocks> seb128: right, well, it's just while I'm thinking at it and to get the final list for the migration, but that can change after (just people already transitionned won't have the new icon)
<seb128> rodrigo_, the gnome-keyring update is not right
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, what's wrong in it?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, nessita or dobey
<seb128> lot
<rodrigo_> oh :(
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, thanks :)
<seb128> but basically it should build twice, once with gtk2 and once with gtk3 ideally
<seb128> so libgcr0 and libgcr3 are built
<rodrigo_> ah
<huats> morning
<pitti> seb128: oh, I just see that we still build /usr/share/gir-1.0/GLib-2.0.gir from gobject-introspection instead of from glib2.0
<pitti> seb128: do you want me to look into that?
<pitti> current glib2.0 fixed a couple of bugs in the annotations which now start to hurt us
<seb128> pitti, do they plan to build it from glib now?
<seb128> they were discussing it for a while
<pitti> erm, why wouldn't they/we?
<seb128> pitti, because gobject-introspection depends from glib
<seb128> it would make glib depends on gobject-introspection
<seb128> like circular requirement
<pitti> ah, so that's a permanent plan then?
<seb128> no sure that was the other reason
<seb128> you should ask on their channel
<pitti> okay, will do; thanks!
<seb128> other -> only
<seb128> you're welcome
<pitti> I thought that gir-repository was just a kludge
<seb128> it is
<pitti> and it doesn't even build right now
<seb128> but gir-repository != gobject-introspection
<pitti> right, I know
<seb128> pitti, gir-repsitory builds only a few gir not used
<seb128> it's nothing to do with glib
<seb128> or with bugs you might have
<pitti> $ dpkg -S /usr/share/gir-1.0/GLib-2.0.gir
<pitti> libgirepository1.0-dev: /usr/share/gir-1.0/GLib-2.0.gir
<pitti> seb128: it is
<pitti> that's why I noticed in the first place
<seb128> that's coming from gobject-introspetion
<pitti> we have a wrong annotation there
<pitti> which causes a crash
<seb128> not from gir-repository
<pitti> but our glib package has that fixed already
<pitti> oh, oops
<seb128> you might want to update gobject-introspection to a git snapshot
<pitti> ok, looking into that
<seb128> that would make sense
<seb128> but really gir-repository is a leftover
<pitti> if that gir is built from libglib2.0-dev instead of being a static copy, then things would be fine
<seb128> well I know they had discussions about that at GUADEC
<seb128> and they was disagreement between upstream people
<seb128> so they probably have solid reasons to do it the way they are doing it now
<seb128> you should ask them
<pitti> right, thanks
<seb128> meanwhile I think walters blogged saying to use the git gobject-introspection
<seb128> so maybe using a snapshot would solve your issues
<seb128> just make sure they didn't break the abi again if you do that ;-)
<didrocks> speaking about circular depends, it seems we have some bugs from doko: bug #677387 bug #677382 bug #677374 bug #677388
<pitti> seb128: the ABI in the sense of "typelib version 4 expected, but 3 found blabla"?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677387 in libgnome (Ubuntu) "libgnome b-d on libcanberra, which cannot be availabe at this time (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677387
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677382 in gir-repository (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "gir-repository fails to build from source in natty (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677382
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677374 in glade-3 (Ubuntu Natty) (and 1 other project) "glade-3 link failures with --no-add-needed (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677374
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 677388 in gstreamer0.10 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gstreamer b-d on the *complete* gnome desktop via gir-repository-dev (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/677388
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> didrocks, the third one is pending sync, I will do that today
<seb128> didrocks, the second one will be fixed in the glade-3 update which is being worked
<seb128> didrocks, the second is a known issue nobody cares about, we should probably just drop the source, we keep it because some things synced from debian still wrongly list it
<seb128> ups, got my index wrong
<pitti> drop the gir-repository package, you mean?
<seb128> but basically most have been assigned or commented on already
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok, it's not me then :)
<didrocks> ok, nice
<didrocks> slomo fixed the gstreamer one IIRC
<seb128> pitti, we keep it because a few things still build-depends on gir-repository-dev
<seb128> didrocks,  didrocks, the third one is pending sync, I will do that today
<seb128> got my index wrong as said
<seb128> that was about the gstreamer one, see my comment on the bug
<didrocks> ok, it wasn't glade :)
<pitti> yep, seems that g-i git head fixes quite a lot of those
<seb128> pitti, great ;-)
<didrocks> just a ping, I kept that in my todo to ping people about it as I was pinged and not working on that
<seb128> well depends use gir-repository-dev because they didn't add the gir builds to gtk etc
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I handled them when I noticed the emails, but feel free to ignore doko pings
<didrocks> seb128: understood :)
<seb128> he shouldn't ping people directly but assign to our team rather
<seb128> I wonder why the heck gstranslator has a distro diff to build-depends on liblaunchpad-integration-dev
<seb128> it's the only diff and the code doesn't use the lib anywhere
<seb128> people keep merging that diff since jaunty
<aquarius> didrocks, you want to ping nessita about that
<aquarius> didrocks, oh, rodrigo_ already said that, heh :)
<didrocks> aquarius: yeah, thanks nonetheless! :)
<pitti> seb128: so, g-i git head fixes my test program crash, and apport works just fine
<seb128> pitti, upload ;-)
<pitti> you bet!
<rodrigo_> hey aquarius
<aquarius> rodrigo_, hey
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-control-center/several-fixes-2-91-2/+merge/41713
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks, reviewing when the diff will be there
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, no hurry, just finished it so that I can concentrate in the invest applet thing
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your icetead-web update failed to build!
<seb128> no pkg-config found
<chrisccoulson> hmmmmm
<chrisccoulson> i wonder how that ever worked?
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> is pkg-config supposed to be in build essential?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure. it's strange that that's only just stopped working though :/
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, couchdb is a PITA :)
<didrocks> hum, gsettings is weird sometimes
<nessita> hello everyone! quick question: did I miss a package since today I'm getting debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<nessita>  ?
<seb128> hey nessita
<nessita> seb128: hey there!
<seb128> how are you?
<nessita> seb128: is my system crazy today? :-)
<nessita> pretty good, and you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> nessita, you did a typo it seems
<seb128> ups sorry, I did a typo
<seb128> nessita, do you have cdbs installed?
<seb128> dpkg -l | grep cdbs
<nessita> it shows nothing
<seb128> sudo apt-get install cdbs
<nessita> which is odd since I've been using this quite a few times
<seb128> nessita, grep cdbs /var/log/dpkg.log
<seb128> nessita, grep cdbs /var/log/dpkg.log
<seb128> ups
<nessita> seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535885/
<seb128> nessita, you removed it the day before yesterday it seems
<seb128> reinstall it
<seb128> "2010-11-22 15:51:48 remove cdbs"
<nessita> seb128: *I* removed it?!?!?
<seb128> it seems so
 * nessita didn't (not intentionally at least)
<seb128> or you installed something which conflicts with it
<seb128> you can read the dpkg.log around the time that was removed
<didrocks> hey nessita
<didrocks> cyphermox: hey
<seb128> just to see what else was installed or removed
<didrocks> cyphermox: did you see the evo-exchange FTFBS?
<didrocks> FTBFS*
<cyphermox> hadn't seen it yet, but we should be able to fix that easily
<didrocks> cyphermox: no hurry on that, can be next week
<didrocks> just to warn you about it :)
<cyphermox> yep yep.
<cyphermox> I got another ftbfs on arm for wpasupplicant too, which might wait until next week :/
<cyphermox> I jumped right into nm-applet this morning
<cyphermox> didrocks, the ftbfs was due to evo not being ready: evolution-dev : Depends: evolution (= 2.30.3-1ubuntu7.1) but it is not going to be installed
<didrocks> yeah, no worry, -exchange is in universe and isn't subject to freeze
<didrocks> cyphermox: hum, even the latest?
<didrocks> weird, it was published by the time
<cyphermox> I don't know. looks to me like it's the reason for it to have failed
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, will do a retry
<cyphermox> didrocks, just checked, i386 evo hadn't finished stripping translations by the time evo-exch failed
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, it means that the build-dep wasn't bumped on evo-exch, weird
<didrocks> thanks
<cyphermox> but it was... afaict
<cyphermox> anyway, I do believe a rebuild with no changes will fix this
<didrocks> yeah, will do that, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, there?
<nessita> didrocks: I updated lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/natty-release with the version requirement for ubuntuone-clinent (>= 1.5.0) which is the new u1-client release in natty. Is there any chance you (re) sponsor that natty package?
<nessita> didrocks: by "that natty package" I meant u1 control panel package :-)
<didrocks> nessita: oh sure, can do that :)
<didrocks> nessita: so, the prefered u1 setting client replacing u1preferences is what command nonw?
<didrocks> now*
<nessita> ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk
<didrocks> nessita: thanks! I have no access to your branch like the other day
<nessita> what? I fixed this with a l.o.s.a
 * nessita rechecks
<didrocks> Not allowed here
<didrocks> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<didrocks> You are logged in as Didier Roche.
<didrocks> not for me :)
<nessita> oh
<nessita> didrocks: I repushed to lp:~nataliabidart/+junk/ubuntuone-control-panel-natty-release until I get another l.o.s.a slot
<didrocks> nessita: ok, thanks, will get to it today
<nessita> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, did empathy 2.32.2 get uploaded to -proposed ?
<kenvandine> not yet
<kenvandine> soon
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i haven't forgotten
<mvo> kiwinote: hello! I'm working on the fastlist stuff currently, if you want, check out lp:~mvo/software-center/experimental-fastlist , I will merge your changes next, I think we are relatively close now, thanks for all your great work
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, can you add a maverick part to bug #678330 ? i can't afaik
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 678330 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Empathy 2.32.2 Stable Release Update Request (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678330
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you might want to wait for the current sru to reach updates to do a new one
<bcurtiswx> mvo, is it possible that aptitude ignores recommends on a dist-upgrade when new recommends are introduced between cycles ?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, that will make it easier to test
<bcurtiswx> seb128, sure.  :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, nominated for maverick
<bcurtiswx> i forgot about 2.32.1 waiting for -updates
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, can you ping me when that happens?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I've noticed you turned off quite some of the g-c-c distro patches
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sure.
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you plan to update those?
<kenvandine> thx
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, they need a big rebase
<mvo> bcurtiswx: apt has --no-install-recommends, I'm not sure about apttitude, it should follow this too
<rodrigo_> seb128, I just disabled them to make the packages available asap for ckpringle to test the new shell
<rodrigo_> seb128, but yes, will rebase them soon
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I guess you might want to work on those before starting on other updates
<rodrigo_> seb128, well, I wanted to wait for the g-c-c code to stabilize a bit, but yeah, will do it after the g-applets update
<seb128> rodrigo_, no hurry, I will just open bugs for tracking
<seb128> we might want to discuss what to do for things which don't apply to the new code as well
<bcurtiswx> mvo, i am referencing to bug #620733 in which i'm trying to see if a distribution upgrade caused libdconf0 to not be installed.. as it was introduced as recommends to empathy between those two cycles (Lucid-->Maverick)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 620733 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Empathy does not remember settings (affects: 12) (dups: 3) (heat: 104)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/620733
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I removed a few of those
<bratsche> Hi didrocks, can I ask you a quick packaging related question?
<bcurtiswx> im invalidating the glib part now, it's not that
<bratsche> didrocks: I'm making packaging for my libgrip, and when I make distcheck it creates libgrip-0.1.0.tar.gz but when I try to bzr-buildpackage it is looking for libgrip_0.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<didrocks> bratsche: right, you have to rename it
<didrocks> hum, 0.0.1?
<bratsche> Err.. 0.1.0
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> so, yeah, you just have to rename it
<didrocks> welcome to packaging land :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I've pushed a new revision to gnome-control-center
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, you might want read it just to see what I cleaned
<bratsche> didrocks: So I rename it in the packaging somewhere?
<seb128> rodrigo_, your lib .symbols was empty btw
<rodrigo_> oh
<didrocks> bratsche: oh no, just put the tar.gz file in the parent directory of your branch
<rodrigo_> hmm, I guess I generated it and didn't copy it back to the branch
<didrocks> bratsche: and rename it to libgrip_0.1.0.orig.tar.gz
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm uploading that to the ppa
<bratsche> didrocks: Oh okay, thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<chrisccoulson> great, couchdb ported but crashes on start now :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, cool, thanks for the fixes :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, you're welcome
<rodrigo_> seb128, how do you find the libs are not used anymore, apart from looking at the code?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I usually diff the configure.ac between versions
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> and I did a review as well there
<seb128> and searched in the configure.ac if things that seems old were still used
<seb128> didn't find things like pango or the libxss etc there
<rodrigo_> seb128, as for the removed conflicts/replaces, it won't work for people having previous packages from the PPA, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well people who run a natty ppa should have upgraded by now
<seb128> they will probably not stay weeks on the buggy version
<rodrigo_> yeah, and manual fixing is possible, so yeah, ok
<seb128> I wanted to make sure we don't carry it over when it lands to Ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> i still have my apt-get dist-upgrade wanting to remove evolution :-\
<seb128> but I could have kept it a bit longer
<bcurtiswx> with the ubuntu-desktop PPA
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it's not likely the ppa
<bcurtiswx> i know, the ppa packages are being kept back with just an upgrae
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, no problem,. just tried manual fixing and it works, so we can just point people to do thatr
<rodrigo_> if they have any problem
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's just a race between unpacking
<seb128> running apt-get -f install usually fix it
<seb128> those using a natty ppa should be able to do ;-)
<bcurtiswx> aptitude why-not says evolution depends on -data-server and libcamel1.2-19 but libcamel1.2-19 breaks evolution
<rodrigo_> yeah :)
<seb128> but it just concerns users who get the old version and didn't update yet
<seb128> bcurtiswx, seems the new evolution didn't build yet on the architecture you are using
<kiwinote> hey mvo! I'll have a better look once our branches are merged together, but it seems to look nice. The few things I am aware of in my branch: querying installed pkgs is quite slow, custom pkglists don't work, I changed the ordering for search results - this gives much better results for app-install data pkgs, but we probably need to write an axi plugin to add some weightings to the terms for axi pkgs
<bcurtiswx> amd64 seems so :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> no ctrl-w!
<kiwinote> mvo: also nzmm had a branch with faster scrolling - I haven't looked into the code itself yet, but it seems like something we will want (possibly minus the batched display of icons)
<mvo> kiwinote: thanks for this info, I'm currently resolving the conflicts, hope to have it ready in a couple of minutes to merge back
<mvo> kiwinote: then I check the one from nzmm
<mvo> kiwinote: brings in another startup speed improvement as well it seems
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, is the new evo in the natty repos then?
<kiwinote> mvo: thanks! (also for the merging of the startup-speed branches yesterday along with nice shiny daily builds :) )
<mvo> kiwinote: the startupspeed brnach is a killer (just like the fastapp one), I meant to hug you for it when I did the merge, but you were not online
 * mvo hugs kiwinote
<mvo> now! :p
 * kiwinote hugs mvo ;)
<kiwinote> mvo: we query for the featured and what's new sections on startup - so that'll probably explain the extra improvements
<mvo> I like the new nr_apps, nr_pkgs as its more accurate, I need to measure how slow it is (your comment mentions that). but a thread souds like a good idea
<kiwinote> mvo: yeah, I think displaying the action bar in a thread will solve any issues there
<kiwinote> mvo: it's mostly just that we need three queries to get the right numbers and the results, so pushing two of them into a thread should work
 * mvo nods
 * bcurtiswx kick freenode
<mvo> bcurtiswx: this can happen if a recommend sis not instlalable at the moment the upgade is tried
<mvo> bcurtiswx: at this point apt/aptitude will decide to skip it and later it does not know if it was skipped because the user wanted it like this or because (back then) it was not installable
<bcurtiswx> mvo, hmm.  so is it a bug still?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yes!
<bcurtiswx> didrocks, excepti believe it FTBFS
<bcurtiswx> for amd64
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, I'll release evo-couchdb, which includes the fixes to compile with 2.31/32, and package it
<mvo> kiwinote: ok, should be ready for re-merging, there is a bit of flux and I hope I did not make a merge mistake. some stuff I simplified, works for me, there is a open question about only_packages_without_applications, but it looks like you solved this already nicely with the XD term that you use
<mvo> kiwinote: I'm quite excited, --debug-filter=performance shows 0.2s on my system when clicking on "system" now :-D
<mvo> and it starts faster than it can open the cache
<seb128> rodrigo_, do it usually takes a while for you to get the ppa uploads accepted?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, not much, no
<rodrigo_> a few minutes
<seb128> ok, I'm wondering what happened to my g-c-c upload
<dobey> pedro_: ping
<pedro_> hi dobey
<dobey> pedro_: hey. it looks like us ubuntu one hackers can't see any of the bugs on the ubuntuone packages in ubuntu, that are private.
<dobey> pedro_: might you know why?
<rodrigo_> heh, pedro_ again messing around with bugs :)
<pedro_> dobey, because they are probably not part of the ubuntu bug control team
<pedro_> dobey, only members of that team are able to see private bugs in the ubuntu product
<dobey> pedro_: but we are. ~ubuntone-hackers is a member of ~ubuntu-bugcontrol
<dobey> hrmm
<pedro_> dobey, any example bug?
<dobey> pedro_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/680968
<ubot2> dobey: Error: Bug #680968 is private.
<pedro_> dobey, is that a crash report?
<Chipaca> yes, it is
<dobey> pedro_: i have no idea, i can't see it :)
<Chipaca> yes, it's a crash report
<Chipaca> of the ubuntu one nautilus plugin
<dobey> but chipaca says it is
<pedro_> dobey, IIRC we cannot access those bugs until apport do something with those
<Chipaca> pedro_: that wouldn't be an issue, but then we don't get an email about it either
<pedro_> Chipaca, lp bug :-)
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, hey, just released couchdb-glib 0.7.0, fyi
<Chipaca> looks like it
<pedro_> Chipaca, dobey btw bug 425127 has more info on why you don't get notification from those
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 425127 in malone "private bugs in packages people with access to private bugs are subscribed to don't generate emails (affects: 1) (heat: 1)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425127
<kiwinote> mvo: looking atm - just forgetting to update all the right db's in the right order ;)
<seb128> rodrigo_, kklimonda: if you touch couchdb-glib please drop the build-depends on gir-repository-dev
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, didn't I already removed it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, but yeah, looking now, I'll package it now
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, still there
<seb128> rodrigo_, ;-)
<mvo> kiwinote: heh, indeed, the local xapian one should be rebuild automatically now, it has a "version number" now
<seb128> same if someone is going to touch libubuntuone one day
<mvo> kiwinote: but of course the systemwide does not
<seb128> rodrigo_, that used to be you as well do you know if there is any new release planned?
<seb128> I might just rebuild the current version without it
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, I still maintain couchdb-glib and evo-couchdb, but not libu1
<rodrigo_> dobey, ^^
<dobey> what now
<rodrigo_> I can package it as soon as there is a new release
<rodrigo_> or Chipaca ^^
<seb128> dobey, do you know if libubuntuone will get a new version in the next weeks?
<dobey> sure why not
<seb128> dobey, I want to clean the build-depends on gir-repository-dev and was wondering if I should wait for the next normal upload or just do an upload for that
<seb128> since that's deprecated and we want to drop it
<rodrigo_> seb128, I can do the upload just for that
<seb128> it should just depends on the specific gir binaries it needs
<dobey> is there a replacement, or it just gets dropped?
<seb128> dobey, the gir are built from gtk, etc now
<dobey> in gtk3?
<seb128> gir-repository-dev was a pack of those from the time they were not built by the components
<Laney> I just uploaded new versions of banshee and b-c-e that should be good to seed/promote
<dobey> or in gtk2 also?
<seb128> gtk2 also
<seb128> it was already the case in maverick
<seb128> really gir-repository-dev probably contains nothing you use
<seb128> apt-cache show gir-repository-dev
<seb128> see the list of girs there
<kiwinote> mvo: seems to be looking nice
<dobey> ok
<dobey> seb128: is there a bug for it?
<seb128> you probably want to use gir:Depends as well and can dh_girepository
<kiwinote> mvo: by the looks of it the purchase apps updater needs a display_name updater added (probably also a pkgname.replace('-','_') from last nights stuff I did)
<mvo> kiwinote: some more cleanup in r1279
<seb128> dobey, no but I can open one
<mvo> kiwinote: replace()> good point
<dobey> ok
<kiwinote> mvo: as for only_packages_without_applications, I haven't quite worked out what it does
<rodrigo_> seb128, an easy one -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/couchdb-glib/0_7_0_release/+merge/41752
<rodrigo_> seb128, I can do the upload for that one, since I have ppu permissions
<mvo> kiwinote: its meant for removing packages that also have a application, the name is kind of hard to parse
<mvo> kiwinote: but I think you solved that more elegantly with the XD query
<kiwinote> mvo: ah ok - in that case it can indeed go
 * kiwinote likes the amount of deletions in r1279 :)
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> this stuff was a pain to write in the first place, now its a joy to get rid of it again ;)
<kiwinote> I can imagine
<rodrigo_> seb128, btw, I just realized I always ping you for reviews, so will ping others as well :)
 * rodrigo_ looks at didrocks and pitti
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can do it, but tomorrow, needs finish compiz session
<didrocks> and not sure how long it will take
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yeah, don't worry, will ping you for other reviews from now on, not this one :)
<didrocks> ok :)
<rodrigo_> but not before tomorrow, of course :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, just copy urls on the channel and let people pick those
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, the couchdb-glib update is fine, you can upload but need somebody to merge in the vcs right?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, need just the merge
<seb128> ok will do that
<bratsche> didrocks around still?
<rodrigo_> ok, uploading then
<didrocks> bratsche: I'm there, yeah
<seb128> dobey, rodrigo_: bug #681013
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 681013 in libubuntuone (Ubuntu) "should not build-depends on gir-repository-dev (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681013
<dobey> seb128: thanks
<bratsche> didrocks: Hey, is there any chance you might have a few minutes to look at my packaging and see what is wrong with it? :)
<rodrigo_> dobey, ok, I'll do an upload for that
<dobey> rodrigo_: if you insist
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> bratsche: really not know, but later yes :)
<bratsche> didrocks: Awesome, thanks!
<seb128> rodrigo_, you need to call dh_girepository in the rules
<rodrigo_> oh, ok
<seb128> gir:Depends doesn't work without that
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, in couchdb-glib also then?
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, anywhere you use gir:Depends
<dobey> seb128: for packages i need to get updates in for, that i don't already have upload privs for, should i just dput them and ask someone to sponsor?
<seb128> dobey, either that or give a vcs url from where people can build the source
<seb128> rodrigo_, binary-predeb/gir...:
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's the target used in cdbs sources to call dhgirepository
<seb128> where gir... is the gir binary name
<rodrigo_> seb128, have you already merged the couchdb-glib branch?
<seb128> rodrigo_, not yet
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I'll add it there then, so don't merge yet
<dobey> seb128: ok, thanks again
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<rodrigo_> I'll need another upload though, have already uploaded it
<seb128> dobey, you're welcome
<rodrigo_> debian/rules:8: *** target file `binary-predeb/gir1.0-couchdb-glib-1.0' has both : and :: entries.  Stop.
<rodrigo_> what does that mean?
<seb128> what did you use?
<seb128> rodrigo_, you probably need "binary-predeb/gir1.0-couchdb-glib-1.0::"
<seb128> rodrigo_, double :
<rodrigo_> yay, seems so
<seb128> rodrigo_, was there any reason you didn't upload gnome-bt to the ppa yet?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I was waiting for your review
<rodrigo_> I thought I can't upload to the PPA?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, doing that now since I merged your depends fix
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh ok, you only did it yesterday
<seb128> rodrigo_, I though it was done before we suspended the ppa for you
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, the previous changes in the branch didn't get uploaded
<kklimonda> seb128: have you had time to take a look at atkmm yet?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: \o/ (wrt the new couchdb-glib release)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: what are you doing with couchdb? :)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, trying to make it work with the latest version of spidermonkey
<seb128> kklimonda, where is it? it's not on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/index.html
<seb128> kklimonda, sorry if things don't get on the sponsoring queue it's hard to keep track :-(
<kklimonda> seb128: I've thought you were doing it through the debian?
<seb128> well having a bug with the url and the sponsors subscribed would be useful
<seb128> would it only be for comments
<kklimonda> seb128: last time I've subscribed ubuntu-sponsors to the bug 672817 they were unsubscribed :/
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 672817 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] atkmm1.6 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672817
<seb128> oh right you told me the other day
<seb128> I will do that today
<seb128> sorry for the delay
<kklimonda> no problem, it's not like I don't have anything else to do :)
<rodrigo_> hmm, dh_girepository -pgir.... gives me: Could not find gir file for Couchdb-1.0.typelib
<rodrigo_> and using -I doesn't seem to fix it
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, I'm having the issue with gnome-bt now, investigating why
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> you ship the .gir in a binary right?
<rodrigo_> no
<seb128> that's why I guess
<rodrigo_> I see gir-gtk doesn't neither
<seb128> it does
<seb128> the .gir are in libname-dev binaries
<rodrigo_> ah
<rodrigo_> right, that works
<seb128> great
<seb128> rodrigo_, the typelib are arch specific right?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think so
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, fixes pushed to https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/couchdb-glib/0_7_0_release/+merge/41752
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, you defined the gnome-bt gir as arch all
<seb128> that's why it was failing to build there
<rodrigo_> hmm
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> I've set it to arch any now and it works
<rodrigo_> right, I guess a copy paste problem
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, merging the couchdb diff now
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, can I upload it again then?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw your binaries naming is buggy
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> oh, in couchdb-glib?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> I'll fix them then before uploading
<seb128> the policy says it should be gir<version>-<typelibname>-<version>
<rodrigo_> which one is wrong?
<seb128> well you added -glib to the binaries
<seb128> but the typelib doesn't have a -glib
<seb128> gir1.0-couchdb-glib-1.0
<rodrigo_> oh
<seb128> should be gir1.0-couchdb-1.0
<seb128> same for the other one
<rodrigo_> ok, changing it
<rodrigo_> don't merge the branch yet then :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> do you have anything using those?
<seb128> (seems not)
<rodrigo_> no, afaik
<seb128> in any case you want to Conflicts,Replaces,Provides the old name
<seb128> Binary: gir1.0-couchdb-1.0
<seb128> Conflicts: gir1.0-couchdb-glib-1.0
<seb128> Replaces: gir1.0-couchdb-glib-1.0
<seb128> etc
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ./usr/lib/gnome-bluetooth/libgnome-bluetooth-applet.so
<seb128> do you know what this is is for exactly?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it should probably not be in the libgnome-bluetooth8 deb
<seb128> not sure if it should be in gnome-bt or in a new binary
<rodrigo_> let me check, it's a lib for the applet, I think
<sense> Evolution in Natty has some GTKHtml problems.
<bratsche> didrocks: I think I have the packaging issue sorted out now.
<didrocks> bratsche: oh nice! not sure I would have the time TBH :)
<rodrigo_> afaics, it's just used by the panel applet, so I guess it's for some gnome-shell stuff, since it has a typelib
<rodrigo_> seb128, ^^
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'll ask bastien
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm inclined to put it in the gnome-bt binary for now
<seb128> we can create a new binary later if required
<rodrigo_> seb128, in the meanwhile fixed the naming: https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/couchdb-glib/0_7_0_release/+merge/41752
<bratsche> didrocks: It turns out I was just missing some other files in my packaging branch and it was solved by running autoreconf -vfi and bzr adding those files.
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, probably, I just added it to lib... package because of the typelib
<didrocks> bratsche: oh ok, nice you got it!
<bratsche> Yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can upload couchfb-glib, I'm merging it
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, thanks
<kenvandine> that crazy tar problem with dbusmenu and pbuilder... it has something to do with the tar getting created with make distcheck
<kenvandine> someday i am going to really spend the time to figure out wtf is up with that
<rodrigo_> oh, still no evolution update
<kenvandine> if i extract the tarball, and create a new one it is like half the size
<kenvandine> seb128, just gotta confirm pbuilder can build dbusmenu then i'll be ready to get you to look it over and tell me what i did wrong :)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok ;-)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, btw, was going to update libu1, and got the ~ubuntu-desktop branch, but it's very outdated, so should it be removed?
<kenvandine> getting multiple builds write is a pain
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah
<seb128> indeed
<kenvandine> s/write/right
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, can you do it please?
<kenvandine> sure
<rodrigo_> thanks!
<kenvandine> ordering is very weird...
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, gnome-bt cleaning commited
<seb128> rodrigo_, we need to reactivate the indicator patch before upload though
<seb128> hum, or not
<seb128> rodrigo_, I guess we will need libappindicator on gtk3 for that
<seb128> which kenvandine is working on
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i hope today :)
<kenvandine> ugh... evolution appears to have been removed
 * kenvandine must have missed that in the dist-upgrade today
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, was waiting for that, is anyone working on it?
<rodrigo_> ah, kenvandine
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, where did the gnome-appearance-properties disappear to with Gnome 3 from desktop PPA ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, what part of it?
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, yes, it's gone
<seb128> you have a background utility now
<bcurtiswx> i kinda missed the default gnome fallback.. :)
<rodrigo_> yes, but for themes, etc, there will be gnome-plumbing
<rodrigo_> a sort of tweakui tool
<bcurtiswx> the background utility keeps crashing
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, can you report a bug then, please?
<rodrigo_> with a backtrace if possible
<seb128> slomo, hello
<seb128> slomo, could you get http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=603041 in the next upload you do?
<ubot2> Debian bug 603041 in gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-apps "gst-visualize-m.m imports File::Basename which creates unnecessary perl dependency" [Minor,Open]
<seb128> slomo, it's the only diff we have in ubuntu, so we could sync again
<bcurtiswx> rodrigo_, whats the command line to the background GUI ?\
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, there isn't, it's loaded as a plugin
<rodrigo_> bcurtiswx, so, run gnome-control-center on gdb
<slomo> seb128: sure, it's upstream too already
<seb128> slomo, ok thanks
<ari-tczew> baptistemm: around?
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti
<baptistemm> ari-tczew: yeah, but not for long
<ari-tczew> baptistemm: could you update your branch to merge bluez 4.70 from Debian unstable?
<baptistemm> ari-tczew: Which branch? I didn't touch any packaging for months
<ari-tczew> baptistemm: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bmillemathias/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main/annotate/head%3A/debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> now I'm trying to reproduce a debdiff debian -> ubuntu to get -1ubuntu1
<baptistemm> debian has only 4.70? upsyream is 4.80
<ari-tczew> baptistemm: yes, but till Debian doesn't have 4.79 (as PTS shows) / 4.80, we can figure out delta between Debian and Ubuntu, then request to Debian upgrade
<didrocks> ok, will work a little bit offline, see you!
<baptistemm> ari-tczew: To be hinnest I don't have free time for that, I could find some time this week-end, but this is not garanteed
<ari-tczew> baptistemm: okok
<kenvandine> seb128, whenever you have a chance, look at lp:~ubuntu-desktop/dbusmenu/ubuntu
<kenvandine> not sure if it is ready
<kenvandine> still waiting for it to build in a ppa
<kenvandine> i forgot that dbusmenu never builds for me in pbuilder, but it does on the buildd
<kenvandine> seb128, i had also forgotten i had needed to get gdk-pixbuf sponsored too... but i got that uploaded too
<kenvandine> so you won't be able to build it until you get that
<kenvandine> seb128, just look it over when you can and let me know if there is anything obvious i should fix
<ari-tczew> seb128: don't you mind if I'll take merge libproxy?
<seb128> kenvandine, urg, what did you do with libdbusmenu?
<kenvandine> huh?
<seb128> kenvandine, joking ;-) I will review it
<kenvandine> haha!
<seb128> just back from dinner
<kenvandine> you got me
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ari-tczew, you can do it, I don't think anybody is working on it
<ari-tczew> thanks seb128
<Sarvatt> would anyone be willing to review/sponsor an x11-session-utils merge to fix the ftbs on natty by any chance? http://sarvatt.com/downloads/merges/x11-session-utils
<seb128> Sarvatt, ok
<kenvandine> seb128, ok dbusmenu did build in the ppa :)
<Sarvatt> seb128: thank you thank you thank you :) build log and the patch that was added is in there
<seb128> Sarvatt, done
<seb128> kenvandine, great, one down, 2 to go? ;-)
<Sarvatt> \o/ thanks again!
<seb128> (libindicator, libappindicator)
<seb128> Sarvatt, you're welcome!
<kenvandine> yeah, working on it already
<kenvandine> seb128, i still need to test the upgrade path on dbusmenu
<kenvandine> waiting for debs to publish
<seb128> kenvandine, we don't use the canonical vcs for libdbusmenu?
<kenvandine> i think we do, i need to remove the Vcs line
<kenvandine> that might have been added back from ted's branch again
<seb128> no we don't
<kenvandine> one of those things that bzr fights over
<kenvandine> ok, that must be a different package
<seb128> I've checkout libdbusmenu today to fix a build-depends
<kenvandine> we should, since all the sources are imported
<seb128> but it seems I don't get the same checkout with the ubuntu-desktop vcs now
<seb128> can you see if james_w can fix that for us?
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> starting to review your update
<kenvandine> we just need to get the branch linked right?
<seb128> we want the ubuntu-desktop version to become the canonical one
<kenvandine> right, linked to lp:ubuntu/dbusmenu
<kenvandine> right?
<seb128> libdbusmenu
<seb128> it's the source name
<seb128> don't ask why the source and project have different names
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> legacy...
<seb128> ok so my fix was to drop to build-depends on
<seb128>  gir-repository-decv
<seb128> -c
<kenvandine> ah, yeah that isn't needed anymore
 * kenvandine removes it
<seb128> kenvandine, gir1.0-dbusmenu-gtk3-0.2
<seb128> you should depends on gir:Depends
<seb128> and call dh_girepository in rules
<seb128> rather than listing the depends manually
<seb128> binary-preinst/gir1.0-dbusmenu-gtk3-0.2::
<seb128>     dh_girepository -pgir1.0-dbusmenu-gtk3-0.2
<seb128> kenvandine, would be nice to use .symbols for the libs
<seb128> kenvandine, it seems you have the rules snippet in fact
<kenvandine> ok
<ari-tczew> does anybody know what is the reason of this ftbfs? src/io/ChannelListWriter.vala:88.36-88.41: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert from `string?' to `uint8[]'
<kenvandine> we should work on convincing tedg on the .symbols
<seb128> kenvandine, ?
<seb128> it's an ubuntu thing, not an upstream one
<seb128> he will just merge back what we do ;-)
<kenvandine> yeah, but he maintains the package for their ppa
<seb128> he will merge back I'm sure
<kenvandine> somehow his changes keep coming back to haunt us
<seb128> kenvandine, the rules seems weird to me
<kenvandine> it took lots of trial and error to get that working at all
<kenvandine> i want to figure out why bzr doesn't like to preserve the delta between our package and ted's
<seb128> talk to james_w
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> he probably knows better than us ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> it is really frustrating...
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm testbuilding since I don't understand the rules
<seb128> the cdbs multi builds are weird
<kenvandine> they are
<seb128> well it's weird to have a gtk3 target without gtk2 one
<seb128> but I guess the gtk2 one is the standard cdbs build
<kenvandine> and you need to get the target depends just right so the sequence is right
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> soname versions and all look sane?
<kenvandine> package names?
<seb128> yeah, that's makefiles for you ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, I will tell you after build since those depends of the files on disk
<seb128> but from a first glance yes
<kenvandine> libdbusmenu-gtk3-2 and libdbusmenu-gtk2 is weird
<seb128> I need to apt-get update and upgrade my gdk-pixbuf though
<kenvandine> but it is correct, as far the actually libs that get built go
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> but i can see where people might get confused if they ever try to figure out which lib is which :)
<kenvandine> more confusing because gtk2 and gtk3 happens to be in the names
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i also didn't build docs for gtk3
<seb128> I saw
<kenvandine> since it would be redundant
<seb128> I'm wondering why we build those at all
<kenvandine> make sense?
<kenvandine> devhelp :)
<seb128> usually upstream ship the .html in the tarball
<seb128> and the packaging doesn't build them
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> since there is no reason a rebuild would be different from what upstream ships
<kenvandine> DX isn't the typical upstream, i guess
<seb128> it just cost build time
<seb128> well my typical upstream is GNOME
<seb128> which might be a standard one either ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, no ted today?
<seb128> kenvandine, btw are you off starting tonight for the weekend?
<seb128> I'm not sure when thanksgiving is etc
<kenvandine> apparently not
<kenvandine> DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_libindicator0 += -V 'libindicator1 (>= 0.3.14)'
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> I just know it's this week
<kenvandine> tomorrow is thanksgiving, and i am taking vacation on friday
<seb128> ok, makes sense
<kenvandine> US is typical thurs and friday
<kenvandine> but bank holiday is just thursday
<seb128> we should probably land all those gtk3 next week or after alpha1 then
<seb128> /usr/bin/vapigen --library=Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2 Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2.gir
<seb128> error: The type name `gint' could not be found
<seb128> error: The type name `gpointer' could not be found
<seb128> kenvandine, it fails to build there
<seb128> Generation failed: 57 error(s), 0 warning(s)
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> do you have anything "weird" gir related?
<seb128> in the build log? or installed?
<kenvandine> installed
<seb128> I'm on stock natty
<kenvandine> built in the ppa
<seb128> with maybe some upgrades missing
<seb128>   gir1.0-freedesktop gir1.0-gdkpixbuf-2.0 gir1.0-glib-2.0 gir1.0-nautilus-2.0
<kenvandine> make sure you have the latest gtk2 and gtk3
<seb128> have pending updates
<seb128> let me update them
<kenvandine> and gobject-introspection
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> gir1.0-glib-2.0 is th culprit there
<kenvandine> that was fixed
<kenvandine> and you need gir1.0-gdkpixbuf-2.0
<seb128> so your build-depends is not strict enough
<kenvandine> i guess
<kenvandine> i'll fix it for gobject-introspection
<seb128> it was not those
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> how about gobject-introspection?
<seb128> gobject-introspection (0.9.12+git20101124-0ubuntu1) ...
<seb128> it got updated with the gir1.0-glib-2.0
<seb128> it's the snapshot pitti did today
<kenvandine> shouldn't be that then
<kenvandine> and libgirepository1.0-dev?
<seb128> uptodate as well
<seb128> did you update today?
<seb128> kenvandine, I don't see anything in the pending updates that should have an impact on that
<seb128> no gir, no gobject, no glib or gkt
<kenvandine> weird
<seb128> gtk
<kenvandine> weird
<kenvandine> it built in the ppa for natty though
<kenvandine> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1374384/+listing-archive-extra
<seb128> kenvandine, weird, I'm a bit puzzled
<kenvandine> me too
<kenvandine> although i also can't explain why dbusmenu won't build in pbuilder but it does on a buildd
<kenvandine> been like that for ages now
<seb128>             <type name="gint" c:type="gint"/>
<seb128> do you have lines like that in the gir?
<kenvandine> in Dbusmenu-Glib-0.2.gir?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> b$ vapigen --version
<seb128> Vala API Generator 0.10.0
<seb128> I guess that's the issue
<kenvandine> ah!
<kenvandine> yeah
 * kenvandine bumps that
<kenvandine> i'll specify valac-0.12
<seb128> ok, works now
<seb128> well I have both installed
<seb128> the alternative was just set on 0.0
<seb128> 0.10
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> we should probably rank the new version higher
<seb128> it works now ;-)
<seb128> restarting a build
<seb128> dpkg-source: error: gunzip gave error exit status 1
<seb128> weird
<seb128> that's at the lintian time
<seb128> kenvandine, seems fine to me
<seb128> kenvandine, do you want to get that in or should we get the stack transitioned at once rather?
<kenvandine> i can get it in, let me test it first
<kenvandine> see if i can find any breakage
<seb128> kenvandine, with some luck the next ones will be easier ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> well libindicator will be
<kenvandine> only problem seems to be top_srcdir vs top_builddir related
<kenvandine> almost done
<Chipaca> any idea why gnome-open is ignoring what's set in 'preferred applications'?
<Chipaca> (in natty)
<dobey> Chipaca: you mean it's starting chrome instead of firefox?
<dobey> Chipaca: the way that url handlers is done in gnome changed
<Chipaca> it's starting firefox 4 instead of chromium
<seb128> Chipaca, because the way handlers work is transitionning to a new system and that didn't get updated yet
<Chipaca> anything i can poke at to make it work in the interregnum?
<seb128> Chipaca,
<seb128> you can change the defaults.list
<seb128> in /usr/share/applications
<seb128> or in .local
<seb128> x-scheme-handler/http=firefox.desktop
<seb128> set what you use instead
<seb128> you will need to run update-mime-database then
<Chipaca> how is this different from the existing mimetypes database we've had for ages, btw?
<seb128> Chipaca, the url handlers where in gconf
<seb128> now they use the same system than mimetypes
<Chipaca> seb128: right... but before gnome and kde, way back when fvwm was cool, we had the mimetypes database all figured out :-/
<Chipaca> it wasn't particularly nice to edit, but netscape 3/4 used that
<Chipaca> and in debian (2.0) the level of integration it afforded was awesome
<Chipaca> maybe i'm just being silly and nostalgic :)
<Chipaca> seb128: changed firefox to chromium-browser in /etc/gnome/defaults.list, /usr/share/applications/defaults.list and /usr/share/gnome/applications/defaults.list, ran update-mime-database /usr/share/mime, and still getting firefox instead of chrome. What am I missing?
<seb128> Chipaca, the 3 files you list are the same on ubuntu
<seb128> dunno, it worked for dobey
<Chipaca> maybe I need to restart my session?
<seb128> you should not
<dobey> Chipaca: you are actually getting firefox to start?
<dobey> Chipaca: copy the chromium desktop file to ~/.local/share/applications and then update-desktop-database ~/.local/share/applications
<Chipaca> dobey: I am getting firefox 4, and I want chromium
<dobey> Chipaca: i had the exact opposite experience. but now that i've used firefox 4, i don't want it, or chrome, or epiphany. :(
 * dobey wonders if mosaic will still run on narwhal
<Chipaca> dobey: nope, needs libc5 x11 libs
<dobey> seb128: since you're still here; do you know what rule i would use in debian/rules to be able to generate a .substvars for ALL the packages in debian/control?
 * dobey downloads navigator 3.04 GOLD.
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: TheMuso: robert_ancell: reminder meeting time in a few minutes. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-23
<seb128> oh right, it's today for you guys
<seb128> I read the irc logs twice this morning searching for the eastern edition logs
<seb128> I wondered if you just didn't have a meeting this week
<seb128> it's confusing to have a day difference ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: you should fix that! :-)
<seb128> Nafallo, not my business ;-)
<Nafallo> seb128: you're the one annoyed about it :-P
<seb128> I would not say annoyed, I just wanted to see if they did follow on conversations we had in the western edition
<seb128> so a bit surprised
<seb128> but now it makes sense
<seb128> I was not in an hurry, I will read what they say today ;-)
<seb128> I might even do comments still I'm still online today :p
<seb128> but first small break
<seb128> brb
 * TheMuso reads through the meeting notes.
<JanC> dobey: http://bit.ly/hxb8qH --> Mosaic 1.0 works fine under Wine at least...  ;)
<dobey> JanC: as fine as looking at like all 3 web pages that still work on it, anyway
<dobey> netscape 3.04 gold works under wine too
<dobey> but the javascripts are murder upon it
<JanC> dobey: it also doesn't support HTTP 1.1 I think, so no virtual domains...  ;)
<dobey> well netscape 3 does
<dobey> but it doesn't have any useful CA certs either
<dobey> so it won't even let me try to open launchpad.net
<dobey> it also doesn't do utf-8 very well
<RAOF> Ok. People seemed to have resolved the "better activity reports" discussion, but I can't quite see *what* was resolved :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I think the resolution was to keep discussing it :)
<RAOF> :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, One of the points I was also trying to make is to break the per-person reports and make a single team report.  That makes it harder to collate separate blog entries into one cohesive element. You can still have attribution with a tag like in the work items.
<seb128> robert_ancell, hi!
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, meeting action - move meeting to Wednesday?
<jasoncwarner> yes
<jasoncwarner> thank you!
<robert_ancell> (move eastern edition)
<seb128> how is a single report make from individual people items different from the same items sorted by people?
<jasoncwarner> was just going to ask that
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think that makes it harder to read.  As we get more and more people the reports get more fragmented and it means a contribution from a community member doesn't really "fit in".
 * jasoncwarner  wish me luck...going to work with google calendar
<seb128> hum
<robert_ancell> seb128, a single list ordered from highest priority to lowest means you immediately know what's important and you can choose how far to read down it
<seb128> robert_ancell, so you think that 90 items listed are easier to read that 9 blocks which each have 10 items?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, because in one minute you know the most important ones (say the first 10), and you can skip the lower 30 if you don't need to know so much detail
<seb128> well if you list my summary after meeting I suggested we focus on writting something easy to read
<seb128> then we should have someone picking the highlights and do a shorter summary
<seb128> well what you say imply that people rank their items dynamically
<robert_ancell> right, you suggested writing separate posts and collating them,  pitti said that was quite some overhead
<seb128> I think we should first improve what you write
<seb128> then we can see what we can do from it
<robert_ancell> I'm suggesting we have one list (e.g. in etherpad/wiki) where people insert their items where they think the priority is.  Then someone (e.g. jasoncwarner) tidies up that list and potentially drops the least important ones (or puts them into an appendix)
<seb128> but I think if the content is nice it should be easy for someone to pick and do a blog post
<robert_ancell> agreed
<seb128> robert_ancell, it seems people were resistant to have a dynamic list
<robert_ancell> seb128, what do you think about proposing we try what I suggested there for next meeting and then assess it?
<seb128> or at least pitti seemed to think that a weekly summary is enough
<robert_ancell> seb128, so, it is a weekly summary, and you could add all your items the day before the meeting (as we do currently).  But it would be possible to update it duing the week
<seb128> not sure, I'm happy to try a format if you suggest one
<seb128> I hate the wiki enough that's I'm pretty sure I will not edit it as dynamically I would edit something else
<seb128> like commiting a change to the wiki often spin for a minute there
<robert_ancell> as I read it pitti seemed rightly worried about making a process that required one person producing a summary (e.g. meeting notes)
<seb128> I would do one lines commits like I do on a whiteboard
<seb128> wouldn't
<robert_ancell> seb128, right, and the exact technology we choose is not important, so if the wiki has performance issues we should use etherpad (as long as it's not limiting as TheMuso said)
<TheMuso> As was pointed out, I can get a plain text export.
<seb128> we should go back to what you want to solve
<seb128> I'm not sure if there was one or several things you wanted out of that
<seb128> do you want only a way to have better weekly summaries?
<seb128> something we can interest people about?
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll propose the experiment, and hopefully the result will look more useful.  I'll manually add some of the thing that should be automatable.
<seb128> or do you want to solve also a cross timezones and contribution enterance level issue
<seb128> like the fact that we discuss lot of what we do in european,us IRC hours
<robert_ancell> that was my main point.  I was also talking about the eastern edition meeting, but that discussion was more meant for the people who attend that meeting
<seb128> which cuts people not on IRC or not on IRC at the right time from jumping in
<seb128> because I feel like people agree on better notes to solve the first issue
<robert_ancell> I personally think that's unavoidable, and the current system is getting the best we can
<seb128> but we didn't really address the second one
<seb128> one way to respond to the second one is to use the list for discussions when we can
<seb128> IRC is nice but having all the discussions there tend to get people distracted and not able to focus and cut other people not on IRC at this time out as well
<robert_ancell> ok, reading the email I sent - I'm not proposing any particular changes to the format.  I did try and document the purpose of the meetings, as it might not be obvious to outside people how the meetings work.  I think others were interested in changing the meeting format, and I'll leave it to them to propose ideas.
<robert_ancell> (meeting format, and other methods we can use)
<seb128> I didn't see anybody suggesting to change the format
<seb128> out of you last week suggesting that wikipedia page with the 15 minutes a day format
<robert_ancell> yes, that was a suggestion for the eastern edition only.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so I don't think we get a lot out of this
<seb128> we did agree to improve the format of what we have for writters though
<robert_ancell> and the feedback seemed to be "not necessary" on that one.
<seb128> we didn't agree on whether we should make it directly nice to read or if someone should do a better summary from some highlights once a week
<seb128> writters->readers
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you want to suggest the format you think is right and have the team try for a week?
<seb128> so we can see what works or not for people
<robert_ancell> yes, I think that will be easiest
<seb128> ok, let's do that
<seb128> so you think we should try to advertise that out of the wiki
<seb128> I've the feeling not many people will come read a wiki
<seb128> compared to having a blog once a week
<robert_ancell> advertise = publish?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> blog posts or similar
<seb128> email on the list
<robert_ancell> so yes, the official summary should be on the wiki, but it should be concise enough to copy and paste it into an email/blogpost
<seb128> I don't want to add that as a task
<seb128> we have enough sponsoring, review, etc duties already
<seb128> and enough difficulties to get people to work on those
<robert_ancell> I would suggest we post it on the wiki and email it every week, and people may choose to blog it if they wish
<seb128> if the wiki summary is nice and easy to read it might encourage some community member to pick and publish it
<robert_ancell> exactly
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so that's one thing
<robert_ancell> what I'm proposing shouldn't take any more effort than the current system, and if it does we should not do it
<seb128> do you think we need to figure something for inter team and contributors detailled status?
<seb128> like what you did today and are blocked on and which could use extra eyes
<robert_ancell> I'm not sure what you mean by "inter team and contributors detailled status"
<seb128> well like a place when we have a note that your totem update is blocked on a crash
<seb128> or the rb one on a python issue
<robert_ancell> you should just add that to the same list
<seb128> or kenvandine's libdbusmenu gtk3 update is hitting vala issues
<robert_ancell> I'll put some examples into the email as to what to add and where
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, are you ok with this?
<seb128> or let's try for a week
<seb128> I've the feeling it's not going to work great
<seb128> but let's see
<robert_ancell> that's ok, it's worth a go
<seb128> yeah, no discussion
<seb128> I think we can do better to be interesting to read without doubt
<robert_ancell> I figure I'll do the summarising this week with jasoncwarner and we can assess how much work it is, and if it should be one person or cycle around
<seb128> the not so easy part is to have people being doing dynamic editing
<robert_ancell> "no discussion"?
<seb128> rather than dumping once a week
<seb128> "no discussion", "without doubt"
<seb128> or "yeah, it's worth a go for sure"
<seb128> ;-)
<robert_ancell> ah, must be a French translations?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we say "nothing to discuss, it's clear it makes sense"
<seb128> -> "no discussion needed"
<robert_ancell> I don't see the issue with the dynamic editing, but hopefully we'll see by next week
<seb128> for me it's the wiki :p
<robert_ancell> well that's just technology, we can change that any time
<seb128> it would be an etherpad or gtg or tomboy that would be easier
<seb128> but maybe that's just me hating wikis
<seb128> let's see how it goes
<seb128> and what people find annoying
<seb128> we can change the support later on if we have better
<seb128> or if we feel the wiki is an issue
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, yay, the meeting change worked!
<seb128> ;-)
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: it's worth a go ;) I was more interested in finding a way to communicate across timezones that people were stuck or needed some help or to announce something. I personally thought status.net would be perfect for that (for as much as I hate twitter and that style of communication, it is effective for somethings)
<robert_ancell> oh, I meant the google calendar entry.
<seb128> including dst time? ;-)
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: well, I did a delete/add!
<jasoncwarner> I couldn't change the meeting to be the right time/day and still repeat
<jasoncwarner> ugh
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, ok, I'll leave that one to you!
<seb128> jasoncwarner, well it seems robert_ancell think those points could just go on the standard activity report
<seb128> we can see if that's the case in practice
<robert_ancell> yes.  I don't see the need for the knowing them within minutes rather than days but I'm open to trying that if people think it's useful
<jasoncwarner> i'm cool with whatever works best for you guys in this, because in effect, this is your information that needs to be shared. :) we should experiment away
<seb128> well it's rather than weekly highlights might not fit with detailed technical blockers
<jasoncwarner> seb128: yeah, probably two different problems trying to be solved
<seb128> one goal is to move away from a dump of technical details to things interesting to read
<seb128> I've the feeling not a lot of people are interested that $source doesn't build with --as-needed
<seb128> but you could want to note somewhere that you have no clue about gcc and would welcome help on it
<seb128> well maybe sorting items on the wiki solves that
<robert_ancell> would I be out of line suggesting we try it without traditional stuff like present/absent/apologies - this information is in the irc logs
<seb128> you mean? moving that section out of the wiki?
<seb128> I don't see any value having it there is the meeting leader knows about people on holidays, etc
<seb128> but I guess it's a question for jasoncwarner ;-)
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: feel free to suggest any format ;)
<jasoncwarner> no worries...we can talk about it after.
<rickspencer3> I think that's also so that community people reading it later know what who was there, and who wasn't, etc...
<seb128> well that informations is in the IRC log
<robert_ancell> ok, I'm going to get radical and keep it ultra simple and we can discuss if it's too far at the next meeting
<rickspencer3> seb128, sort of
<rickspencer3> i don't really care much, just a reminder that we have an important value to be transparent
<seb128> rickspencer3, well if it's important we should start the meeting by stating who is there
<seb128> and who is not
<rickspencer3> of course, part of transperancy is to focus on important information in a digestable format
<rickspencer3> seb128, that doesn't say who couldn't be there, but was expected
<seb128> we can have those informations at the bottom of the summary rather than at the start at least
<rickspencer3> again, I don't much care, just a reminder about that there are audiences and purposes
<seb128> they are probably less important that the content
<rickspencer3> seb128, right, or you could determine that it's a distraction and detracts from your communication and drop it
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw while I've you online, is there anything you need help on or think that needs work?
<seb128> robert_ancell, it seems to me that GNOME3 will not be in a natty state in the next weeks
<seb128> I was thinking that we had a nice start with it but now is maybe time to switch to unity work
<seb128> unity is usable enough now to start using it and working on it
<seb128> I don't see GNOME3 being in a natty state in the next weeks
<seb128> or before end of year
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I also think it's not worth the risk trying to get any of GNOME3 into natty.  And now we have unity we need to focus on that.
<robert_ancell> We should continue to update the PPA as we can and see how we go
<seb128> right
<seb128> I've tried the new g-c-c today
<seb128> (I didn't run it before)
<robert_ancell> very wip right?
<seb128> it has lot of issues and I don't see any real value out of it
<seb128> it just drops lot of things users might be using
<seb128> like themes
<robert_ancell> there really aren't many packages we can update without dragging in too many other things. And since everyone has spent the time updating to GNOME3 there aren't any new features worth getting
<seb128> in fact the new design seems really a win for devices
<seb128> it feels like the ui would git on a screen without clutter
<seb128> but it's not a win on a desktop config
<seb128> git->fit
<robert_ancell> N+1 will be the time to update to GNOME3 I think
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok, seems we agree on that
<seb128> do we still want gtk3 on the CD?
<robert_ancell> we will have some GTK3 apps though right?
<robert_ancell> hah, thinking the same thing :)
<robert_ancell> isn't dx moving to gtk3 for some stuff?
<seb128> well right now I don't see a strong reason for it
<robert_ancell> the only reason is "we have to migrate some time, so moving some apps will mean less work later"
<seb128> but at the same time we might want it part of the standard install
<micahg> is it safe for me to upgrade gnome-shell then to 2.9X?
<robert_ancell> I think if we can, we should.
<seb128> we got apport using it
<seb128> so it's in now
<robert_ancell> micahg, I've been working on the clutter update, should hopefully be done today
<seb128> I think we can probably push some things
<seb128> gnome-games
<seb128> or this calculator of yours :p
<robert_ancell> gnome-games is blocked on clutter
<robert_ancell> gcalctool, sure
<seb128> well I mean during the cycle
<seb128> I had an hard time to find things which don't bring g-s-d or g-c-c in
<robert_ancell> eog seems to work fine, but I'm always worried that something might change and we get cornered
<micahg> robert_ancell: ok, great, I haven't tried yet, I just want to make sure to not cause issues for you guys
<seb128> micahg, you can try but you will like hit issues or depends missing
<seb128> micahg, it will be want lot of GNOME3
<robert_ancell> seb128, and the issue is we can't deliver two g-s-d etc right?
<seb128> robert_ancell, well eog for example as a "set as background"
<micahg> seb128: right, but assuming I can get to build, then uploading would be ok since it's not in the seed?
<seb128> robert_ancell, which will use gsettings
<seb128> robert_ancell, so nautilus or g-s-d will not pick it
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
<seb128> I didn't find lot of softwares not integrated with some system keys
<robert_ancell> micahg, gnome-shell is in a PPA at the moment right?
<seb128> there is a daily build ppa
<micahg> robert_ancell: idk, is it?
<seb128> micahg, well feel free to do what you want on g-s
<seb128> we don't have anybody working on it officially
<robert_ancell> I'm thinking the best place to push gnome-shell is the gnome3-builds PPA, because then it can have all the dependencies
<seb128> ricotzs does daily builds in a ppa for a while
<micahg> seb128: ok, thanks, the only reason I need to upgrade it is for the xul20 transition
<seb128> you need to update gjs rather?
<seb128> but yeah, I think updating can only make upstream and users happier
<seb128> so if you get the new one working go for it
<micahg> seb128: right, but I would guess a new gjs would mean a new gnome-shell as well
<seb128> if you run into any lack of depends let me know
<seb128> we might just want to drop the universe one and use the ppa as robert_ancell was saying
<micahg> seb128: ok, do you have any idea for Debian's plans WRT GNOME3?
<seb128> debian is frozen for their next stable
<seb128> so it's not an easy timing
<seb128> don't count on anything this cycle
<micahg> ah, right, it could be another 4 months before release
<seb128> they start building a GTK3 stack in experimental
<seb128> but I don't think they will go on with GNOME3 as we do in the ppa
<seb128> not until their stable is out
<micahg> seb128: ok, I'll check out ricotz
<micahg> s package
<robert_ancell> seb128, jasoncwarner, proposed meeting page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems fine to me
<seb128> do you think we should keep some sections in the summary?
<seb128> like the current dx, unity, etc
<seb128> s-c
<seb128> xorg
<seb128> I know I like have a clear status for those
<seb128> I'm not sure how it would work having the same items randomly list between other topics
<seb128> not sure if we should have some categories and "others"
<seb128> or just a dump from all notes
<jasoncwarner> as the new guy, I did like having some breakdown by category...FWIW...it was useful for me.
<jasoncwarner> but not sure if that is b/c I'm the new guy or b/c that information naturally breaks down that way
<rickspencer3> fwiw, I put those theres because folks kept getting out of sync on those areas
<robert_ancell> yes, I'm not sure about the categories.  I've decided to drop them for the experiment and see how it goes.
<seb128> ok, let's try
<seb128> but I quite like the kubuntu, s-c, unity, etc status
<TheMuso> So do I.
<Sarvatt> is natty hardcoded to use firefox to open http:// links or something? any magic way to change it?
<RAOF> I fiddled with the gnome-www-browser alternative group, but I've gone back to firefox with the FF4 beta, so I can't tell you if it still works.
<rickspencer3> Sarvatt, maybe I'm not getting what you're saying ...
<rickspencer3> but you should be able to go System->Preferences->Preferred Applications and set your choice of default browser there
<Sarvatt> gnome-www-browser points to chromium
<Sarvatt> rickspencer3: chromium is my browser there but links open in firefox
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-25
<Sarvatt> maybe it's just xchat
<Sarvatt> nope, link in empathy opened in firefox too
<micahg> Sarvatt: bug 670128
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 670128 in xdg-utils (Fedora) (and 4 other projects) "gnome-open uses firefox while it's not the preferred browser (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 16)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/670128
<Sarvatt> micahg: thanks a ton!
<micahg> Sarvatt: np
<chrisccoulson> it's all a conspiracy!
<chrisccoulson> i'm just trying to make everybody use firefox really
<chrisccoulson> :)
<chrisccoulson> (j/k)
<RAOF> TheMuso: Is there someone being Ubuntu-audio this cycle, or is it just you?  From memory, Daniel Chen wasn't going to be available much this cycle?  I'm just patch-piloting bug #486154, and it looks like it needs a bit of system-integration.
<Sarvatt> make it talk to google encrypted sync and I'll think about switching back :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 486154 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "System beep broken in Karmic despite heroic efforts to fix it (affects: 24) (dups: 1) (heat: 146)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486154
 * micahg didn't want to say anything about that chrisccoulson ;)
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt, how does it compare to firefox sync (weave)? That's totally encrypted on the server
<TheMuso> RAOF: Unfortunately thats somewhat of a mess, as so many people have conflicting thoughts as to what should produce event sounds etc.
<chrisccoulson> (ie, the data is only ever decrypted on your local machine)
<chrisccoulson> and is all stored encrypted
<TheMuso> RAOF: As for audio this cycle, well I am not entirely sure. I think rodrigo_ is helping out some, and I am spending a little time on bits and pieces here and there, usually package updates, but thats about as far as I know.
<TheMuso> RAOF: IMO PC speaker stuff is disabled and should stay that way, and libcanberra is responsible for sound events.
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: I got too used to the chromium one since I was using a netbook primarily for years and needed the screen real estate and have it syncing a ton of pc's, digging around for some way to import stuff into firefox to try it out now
<RAOF> So the correct way to proceed would be to teach libcanberra to optionally use the PC speaker, and teach compiz to use libcanberra?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Don't know, and don't care personally. :p but seriously, I'd say thats probably the best bet.
<Sarvatt> not being able to save certificate exceptions in chromium is annoying me enough to try switching back
<TheMuso> The PC speaker is a gradually vanishing piece of kit.
<TheMuso> Once more new hardware uses EFI, there will be much less need for it, so far as I know.
<TheMuso> ...it also doesn't help that upstrea alsa also decided to implement PC speaker emulation in hda, something which I disagree with, adn we have turned off in Ubuntu anyway.
<TheMuso> RAOF_: Do you need me to repeat what I said earlier re that bug?
<RAOF_> TheMuso: Yeah, please.  The last thing I got before everything blew up was âIMO PC speaker stuff is disabled and should stay that way, and libcanberra is responsible for sound events.â
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> RAOF: Don't know, and don't care personally. :p but seriously, I'd say thats probably the best bet.
<TheMuso> The PC speaker is a gradually vanishing piece of kit.
<TheMuso> ...it also doesn't help that upstrea alsa also decided to implement PC speaker emulation in hda, something which I disagree with, adn we have turned off in Ubuntu anyway.
<RAOF_> Heh.
<RAOF_> It looks like we'll have (a small subset of) users who want to use the PC speaker for the forseeable future, so we should probably at least point them in the right direction :).
<charlie-tca> TheMuso, you have seen bug 642888 also?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 642888 in at-spi (Ubuntu) "system bell no beep (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/642888
<ajmitch> RAOF_: as long as they don't expect to play back their oggs through the pc speaker :)
<TheMuso> charlie-tca: Not read it completely.
<TheMuso> I will have a look in a while.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/couchdb/1.0.1-0ubuntu4 \o/
<chrisccoulson> should win some space once robert updates yelp ;)
<chrisccoulson> hi robert_ancell!
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yay!
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: wooo!!
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: that happened fast
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: does that mean we have a spidermonkey package, that you've talked with the mozilla guys re abi stability, the works?
<chrisccoulson> Chipaca, not yet. the current solution is purely to save space on the CD really
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: I've been trying to get in touch with you, but things have been a bit crazy for me. You want me to follow up on the conversation with mozilla, or can you do that?
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: (this is re statik's email)
<chrisccoulson> i don't mind really. the only thing i'm a bit concerned about is that we might be getting confused between API and ABI stability. mozilla say they can provide API stability (which is mostly true already, except for the 1.9.2 => 2.0 transition i just did), but it is ABI stability that's the real problem
<chrisccoulson> i need to do another couch upload in the morning, i just noticed a couple of oversights with the port :(
<chrisccoulson> it's been a pain to port it, because none of the API changes seem to be documented anywhere
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: right
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: I've just pointed the couchdb people at the bug anyway (i mean, at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/681209)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 681209 in couchdb (Ubuntu) "Port to Spidermonkey 2.0 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,Fix released]
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> i need to make sure to set rsval on any native function that returns successfully. that wasn't required before, but is now
<chrisccoulson> will fix that in the morning now though
<chrisccoulson> according to http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/yxPWTYypjFr1Bkh0C9lQ
<hyperair> is a broken .desktop file (wrong gettext domain) worth SRUing?
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, it depends if somebody wants to work on it ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'd imagine so
<hyperair> alright
<hyperair> i was just wondering if i should upload =)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, just do it. it seems trivial enough
<hyperair> okay
<robert_ancell> pitti, can you get clutter-gtk-1.0 out of the new queue?  I figure it doesn't need a MIR because it's just the newer version of clutter-gtk-0.10?
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: does "I don't mind" mean you'll do it, or that you'd rather I did? (sorry to go back on that, but I need to be sure)
<chrisccoulson> Chipaca, i'll read through the e-mail again when i get up, i'm just about to go and get some sleep now (it's 4.15am here now ;))
<Chipaca> maaaaaan
<Chipaca> my brain chiming "low battery" and it's only 1.15 here
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i normally stay up late, but tonight is later than most
<Chipaca> chrisccoulson: go! sleep! rest! I'll chase you tomorrow or day after
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, hey
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> kenvandine: trouble with the new go-introspection?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: cool!
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell: clutter-gtk-1.0> looking
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey
<pitti> robert_ancell: how are you doing?
<robert_ancell> pitti, good.  I worked out how to use the bzr branch for gtk-vnc
<pitti> robert_ancell: why do we version the source in the first place? we need several APIs in parallel?
<dpm> good morning all
<dpm> pitti, thanks a lot for getting the issue with the langpacks cronjob sorted yesterday!
<pitti> hey dpm
<robert_ancell> pitti, I don't know, I just renamed it because it's not 0.10 anymore.  I guess in theory they could keep supporting the old version, but it doesn't sound likely
<pitti> dpm: the lucid one had another crash and needed fixing/handholding, but I started the maverick one from cron out of line, and it seems that went okay
<pitti> robert_ancell: so perhaps the source should eventually just be named clutter-gtk?
<robert_ancell> pitti, well, but what do we do if they make a 2.0 series in the future and we want to keep the 1.0?
<dpm> pitti, ok, thanks for letting me know
<pitti> robert_ancell: isn't that true for pretty much any library? anyway, if that's more likely to happen for clutter, then it's fine
<pitti> robert_ancell: looks fine to me, accepted
<robert_ancell> pitti, I don't know, I hope we'll stay 1.0 for a while :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: wow, there are still upstream releases for gnome-vfs?
<robert_ancell> apparently!
<RAOF> Well, running around an oval in the rain was less annoying than I expected.
<pitti> mvo: good morning
<pitti> mvo: FYI, I collected and tagged the bugs for the performance problems with compressed indexes, and I'll disable them by default for now
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> mvo: it's easy enough to enable locally to work on the bugs
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
<mvo> thanks pitti
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti! Yeah, very well, thanks :) and you?
<mvo> (and good morning!)
<pitti> mvo: but that was useful for seeing where the problems are
<didrocks> hey mvo ;)
<mvo> hey didrocks
<mvo> pitti: indeed
<pitti> mvo: for synaptic and xapian-index it's pretty clear to me -- they seem to iterate through all package records, which is slower
<pitti> mvo: I'm not quite sure why "Building dependency tree..." takes 1:30 hours for an UEC build, but I'll investigate that later
<mvo> yeah, synaptic does it iirc to check for the support status
<mvo> did you managed to reproduce it locally?
<pitti> it would seem to me that building depepdency trees can be done entirely out of pkgcache.bin
<pitti> mvo: the slow synaptic scrolling and slow update-apt-xapian-index, yes
<pitti> I didn't try to reproduce the UEC build thingy
<mvo> ok
<didrocks> hum, why c-f-m-p ftbfs and it compiled fine yesterday hereâ¦
<pitti> chrisccoulson, micahg: do you know why firefox-branding exploded so much in size since maverick?
<pitti> firefox-branding (Î 3.0 MB - 3.6.10+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu3: 0.2 MB   4.0~b7+nobinonly-0ubuntu3: 3.3 MB)
 * micahg thought that was empty now :-/
<pitti> chrisccoulson, micahg: seems this /usr/lib/firefox-4.0b7/omni.jar is new?
<micahg> oh, right
<micahg> yes
<micahg> pitti: the branding is now with the JavaScript files in one container to improve start time
<micahg> pitti: the good news is we can drop xulrunner though as chrisccoulson created mozjs again
<pitti> so it was moved from firefox?
<pitti> micahg: ok, if that's deliberate, that's fine; I just wanted to make sure it wasn't accidental
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> we got down from 30 to 17 MB oversized now
<pitti> (i386 alternate; amd64 is worse)
<micahg> pitti: yes, it's deliberate and shouldn't increase the total between the two packages much
<pitti> micahg: thanks for checking
<pitti> so with RAOF's mesa fix and dropping xulrunner we should just about get back into the home zone
<micahg> pitti: oh, I guess it is about 3MB larger now, but I think that might be due to the new stuff in 4.0
<pitti> and for the rest, lots of package rebuilds to shrink/drop changelogs and PNGs
<Zdra> any chance that bug gets fixed in maverick? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/662946
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 662946 in linux (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "linux kernel 2.6.35 slows down the whole system because of kslowdxxx processes (affects: 34) (dups: 2) (heat: 194)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pitti> we now have unity, nux, zeitgeist, and GTK3 on the CDs, plus a couple of duplicated libraries due to ABI bumps, and two pythons, so we should be fine in the end
<Zdra> maverick's kernel is simply unusable here
<pitti> Zdra: wrong channel, I'm afraid -- try #ubuntu-kernel?
<micahg> pitti: so between dropping most of xulrunner and the increase in Firefox, there's a net savings of 4.5MB
<pitti> micahg: nice!
<Zdra> pitti, ah, didn't know that channel, thanks :)
<micahg> on i386 at least
<pitti> micahg: I think we're going to get a second webkit version as a replacaement for xulrunner, which will add back ~ 5
<pitti> so overall it should be roughly even
<micahg> pitti: for yelp?
<pitti> micahg: right
<micahg> pitti: why a second version?
<pitti> micahg: I'm not sure, it was mentioned yesterday
<pitti> didrocks: I'm curious: if unity is "just" a compiz plugin, and we don't have a separate session type, how do we make panel and nautilus start/not start depending on whether we're running unity?
<didrocks> pitti: nautilus will always be there
<didrocks> pitti: panel as gnome-panel registered as a required component is an issue
<didrocks> pitti: remember my email I forwarded to you? :)
<pitti> ah, ok; I'll look into that now
<didrocks> nobody answered btwâ¦ :/
<didrocks> pitti: basically, I have another idea of workaround
<didrocks> pitti: but not "ideal, flipping-less solution"
<didrocks> I'll implement one tomorrow for A1 in any caseâ¦
<didrocks> today is new compiz + new unity + fixing a lot of stuff :)
<pitti> didrocks: so the main problem is that we only know very late whether we can run unity in the first place, right?
<pitti> i. e. not already when gnome-session starts
<pitti> didrocks: I wonder if there's some way to do "virtual" required components
<pitti> i. e. unity would "provide" a panel, and so does gnome-panel
<pitti> or xfce4-panel for that matter
<pitti> didrocks: it seems to me that the most robust approach is to have compiz start gnome-panel if it doesn't start unity; we can't do that before or in a different place without these "start and kill" stuff, which would be a hideous waste
<pitti> i. e. gnome-session would need to start gnome-panel if we don't use compiz, and compiz would start gnome-panel when needed
<pitti> I'm aware that this would require some ubuntu specific hacks, but we need the hacks somewhere anyway
<pitti> so we can just as well put them into the place where it would be most robust
<pitti> and efficient
<didrocks> pitti: sorry, will get back to you in a bit, still testing unity things :)
<pitti> didrocks: don't worry, take your time
<pitti> didrocks: running unity now :)
<pitti> (for 30 seconds, and already feeling pain)
<didrocks> ok back :)
<didrocks> pitti: so, yeah, unity is runned as the last compiz plugin, very late in the session startup
<didrocks> so, gnome-session has almost finished launching the panel at this point
<didrocks> pitti: let me see when gnome-session starts the panel, if it's before or after the windowmanager
<pitti> didrocks: is there any chance we can make the "can run unity" detection much earlier?
<didrocks> pitti: no, there are mutiples detections, but the unity detection is only part as the unity constructor
<pitti> didrocks: if we only start gnome-panel after basically everything else is ready, startup will be really slow for non-unity sessions
<didrocks> that was my pointâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: right, I wonder if we can pull that out and stuff it into gnome-session
<didrocks> and we loose the autorespawn
<pitti> with a design where you have 90% of your desktop already started before you even figure out what you want to start in the first place, we can only lose
<didrocks> totally agree
<didrocks> so, there is this solution of start gnome-panel and then remove it as a required component with my patch
<didrocks> and kill it
<didrocks> but it makes gnome-panel appearing every time
<didrocks> until unity starts
<didrocks> we can do that at first start
<didrocks> and seeing if unity start -> change the gconf key for later boot
<didrocks> but of course, we will have the issue of resetting that in case of driver change, blablablaâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: and starting gnome-panel is ridiculously expensive
<pitti> right
<pitti> IMHO we should separate the hw detection and run it very early
<pitti> e. g. in gnome-wm for now
<pitti> then this could start metacity, compiz and gnome-panel, or compiz --with unity
<didrocks> pitti: not designed and won't we designed like that, I'm afraidâ¦
<pitti> why?
<pitti> it's not even alpha-1..
<pitti> dbarth: is there a particular reason why unity needs to detect the hardware caps so late in the game (what is essentially the wrong end of the desktop startup chain)?
<didrocks> pitti: because compiz now has a detection/bailer plugin and for instance, it's the opengl plugin which bails when it can't works
<didrocks> work*
<didrocks> same for unity
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128
<pitti> didrocks: ok, then I guess we need to go back to starting gnome-panel from compiz if unity plugin is not enabled
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> ca va ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, journÃ©e chargÃ©e aujourd'hui je pense :)
<pitti> which will really make startup time suck for the panel, but oh well
<pitti> hey seb128
<didrocks> pitti: right, but it's only if we can run compiz, but not gnome-panel
<seb128> pitti, guten tag!
<pitti> didrocks: so gnome-session can run panel or not depending on whether it's running compiz or not?
<didrocks> pitti: if we launch the "windowmanager" phase before, right
<pitti> ah, right
<pitti> didrocks: I guess there are only few cases where compiz works, but not unity?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it will be even less as unity will try to run in a degraded mode
<didrocks> but in that case, we loose the autorespawnâ¦
<didrocks> and that's what annoy me :)
<pitti> didrocks:
<pitti> I have hacked yesterday afternoon on that, and I have a way to tell
<pitti> "gnome-session, please remove this App as a required_component" through
<pitti> dbus.
<pitti> didrocks: does addition work as well?
<pitti> then gnome-panel could register itself for autospawning at gnome-session
<didrocks> pitti: I think I mentionned it later in my mail, the issue is that when starting gnome-panel from the command line I couldn't set an id to it
<didrocks> pitti: so, it can't match with the /App property where I reset autorestart to true
<didrocks> and I tried hard to set an id to it :) --sm-client-id doesn't seem to work and I couldn't find enough doc about it
<pitti> didrocks: I don't understand -- doesn't gnome-session provide an ID for it already?
<pitti> we certainly don't need to worry about autorespawn if we start gnome-panel from the command line?
<didrocks> pitti: why? if it crashes and compiz doesn't?
<pitti> (in fact, I'd love if it would _not_ autorespawn when I start it from a command line, but that's just me as a developer..)
<didrocks> pitti: no, because when you restart it, you have a new /Client on dbus
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean "from the command line" -> "if compiz starts it"?
<didrocks> with an empty id
<didrocks> pitti: right, it's basically what I do in compiz as of today
<pitti> hm, I'm afraid I don't know about the gnome-session IDs to give a hint here
<pitti> didrocks: so for the general startup, we patch gnome-session to ignore gnome-panel if it runs compiz?
<pitti> by way of compiz calling through that new dbus API of your's to dynamically remove stuff from required_components?
<didrocks> pitti: not yet, but that's basically what I did for the UNE session
<pitti> (and assuming that compiz/window manager phase starts earlier than panel)
 * vuntz won't enter the discussion here, but thinks this sounds completely crazy ;-)
<pitti> vuntz: it is..
<pitti> vuntz: bonjour, BTW
<didrocks> pitti: so, we discussed with vuntz
<didrocks> the idea is to make some "profiles" at start
<vuntz> pitti: just chatted with didrocks, he'll repeat the design that is planned upstream
<seb128> lut vuntz
<vuntz> hey :-)
<pitti> vuntz: seems this is basically trying to squeeze three different session types into one..
<didrocks> so, detection module as part of gnome-session
<seb128> seems gnome-session is just not made to deal with that you want to do didrocks
<seb128> we will either need to improve it
<didrocks> seb128: well, not what "I" wantâ¦ just what's implemented in compiz/unity
<pitti> .. or hack the heck out of it?
<seb128> or to move to other system
<seb128> like upstart session services handling
<didrocks> seb128: I try to see what we can do with the current system for natty :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not sure why we need to register gnome-panel
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<didrocks> seb128: autorestart?
<didrocks> well, gnome-panel is not crashing a lotâ¦
<didrocks> that was part of my mail
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> well, start gnome-panel for the session
<seb128> and hack the .dmrc
<seb128> so next login is in GNOME 2d
<didrocks> hum, not a bad ideaâ¦
<seb128> you just don't get autorespawn for one session this way
<pitti> (eww)
<didrocks> then, we need to hook something for users having installed nvidia proprieraty driverâ¦
<didrocks> well, prop<something>* driver :)
<seb128> well make jockey change the .dmrc
<didrocks> pitti | (eww)Â² :)
<pitti> seb128: you mean all of them?
<pitti> for users with encrypted home directories which aren't logged in?
<pitti> etc.
<seb128> pitti, no, the current user one
<pitti> but why bother with all this dynamic detection if we are going to have to write a static config anyway?
<seb128> I think the usecase is people installing nvidia after install
<seb128> so only one user will have loged in with one session
<seb128> I don't think we should aim to deal with corner cases
<pitti> we also have multi-graphics cards computers and laptops these days, where you can switch
<seb128> ok, let's get to the basis
<seb128> you want to run the autodetection at each login?
<didrocks> it's runned at each login right now. It's runned for years in the opengl plugin
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> run*
<seb128> so what you need is just a way to tell gnome-session "start this .desktop and respect the autorestart key"
<seb128> it has the code for dealing with those, it read the autostart directory at session start
<seb128> we just need an api to give him extra ones after the start from dbus
<seb128> seems it should be easy to add
<seb128> you would start gnome-panel this way
<seb128> the same way we start the keyring and others services
<seb128> vino, etc
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's a way to tell him too start a desktop file
<rodrigo_> but gnome-session would start the panel always, right?
<didrocks> better than the autorestart hack
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, unity has its own panel
<didrocks> rodrigo_: right now, because of the gconf key I mentionned in my mail :)
<rodrigo_> right, I mean the upstream gnome-session
<seb128> it reads things it needs to start from gconf
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> well that an desktop files in the xdg autostart dir
<seb128> didrocks, I don't see what is difficult and why you want to add required components in a dynamic way
<seb128> just make compiz make that dbus call to gnome-session to run the gnome-panel autostart?
<rodrigo_> vuntz, and what are the plans for gnome-session to start gnome-shell or the 2.x session? how it's going to do that?
<vuntz> rodrigo_: that's the plan I told to didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: well, I have to see how hard or not it is to tell gnome-session "starts this desktop file"
<rodrigo_> vuntz, ah, ok, reading the backlog
<seb128> vuntz, where did you tell him that?
<vuntz> seb128: #gnomefr
<seb128> vuntz, can you copy or summarize in english there?
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<seb128> or you ;-)
<rodrigo_> ah, yes, a summary please :)
<vuntz> I prefer to review didrocks's patch and let didrocks summarize :-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> vuntz, is there a way now to tell gnome-session during a session to start a service with autorespawn on?
<didrocks> seb128: I summarize already, isn't it?
<didrocks> let me backlog
<seb128> didrocks, I might have joined after then
<seb128> or it was in middle of unity thinking
<didrocks> 10:19:51   didrocks | the idea is to make some "profiles" at start
<vuntz> but the short story is: a profile is a .desktop file (instead of being gconf keys); it contains a key to launch a helper that helps decide if the profile ca nbe used (eg: do we have 3d?), and it can contain a fallback to another profile
<didrocks> 10:20:07   didrocks | so, detection module as part of gnome-session
<didrocks> and deciding which profile we want to choose depending on the detection module
<vuntz> seb128: not sure about this. Probably not, I guess. But if we do this, that'd be part of the GtkApplication stuff, I guess
<rodrigo_> so, gnome-session just spawns the helper, and if it quits with an error, it spawns the fallback?
<vuntz> rodrigo_: kind of
<vuntz> (not sure you can say "spawn the fallback" since the fallback is a profile, but yeah)
<didrocks> ok, so we would have three profiles
<didrocks> one for compiz + unity
<rodrigo_> well, right, it would spawn the helper for the fallback profile
<didrocks> then compiz + gnome-panel and metacity + gnome-panel (or whatever + gnome-panel)
<vuntz> rodrigo_: well, it would discard the current profile, and consider the fallback one
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> not sure how that can play with people having different window manager, vuntz? ^^
<seb128> the detection code is in compiz atm though?
<didrocks> seb128: yes, all the detection is done in compiz, that's one of the blocker
<vuntz> didrocks: use gnome-wm
<vuntz> seb128: just tweak compiz to have some test option. Like "compiz --can-i-work-here"
<rodrigo_> hmm, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59571483/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.libubuntuone_0.3.8-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- should I just run a 'make distclean' before doing the python builds???
<rulus> Good morning! I have some questions about bug #676972 and the procedure of things. MSN in Pidgin is currently broken because MS changed their SSL certificates. Updates have been released for natty and maverick, but older versions (ie Lucid) are still broken. Upstream released 2.7.7 to fix the issue, but not all these fixes are in the natty and maverick updates. I wonder what's the next step?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 676972 in pidgin (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "pidgin does not connect to msn, certificate error (affects: 43) (dups: 3) (heat: 176)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676972
<seb128> ok
<seb128> back on gsd gcc 2.32, it's better
<rodrigo_> seb128, what problems did you find on g-s-d?
<seb128> it seems to not apply the same configs that the old one
<seb128> gdm was on a blue and grey theme
<seb128> rather than using the ubuntu one
<seb128> the desktop had a weird hinting
<seb128> but the gtk theme was correct at least
<seb128> the new g-c-c is acting weirdly with geometry and placement handling
<seb128> every time you open a panel it jumps on screen to another position, weird
<bilalakhtar> New g-c-c means GNOME 3 unstable g-c-c?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> the one in the ppa
<rodrigo_> seb128, any idea about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59571483/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.libubuntuone_0.3.8-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <- do I really need to add a 'make distclean'??
<seb128> rodrigo_, hum, it's weird
<seb128> you should not, the changelog doesn't suggest you changed anything that should trigger build issues
<rodrigo_> it is again with the 'several python versions' thing, it seems
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, changed nothing
<seb128> could be yes
<seb128> I was thinking the same
<rodrigo_> wow, the new evo is much quicker
<didrocks> seb128: rodrigo_: do one of you have a gnome3 stack to test there?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, test what?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you change the wallpaper cache patch to that (it's 02_â¦ http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=174700)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and confirm you get a .cache/wallpaper/num- file?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks :)
<seb128> kklimonda, there?
<seb128> didrocks, \o/
<seb128> you got your patch to land after 6 months ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, just discussed it this morning \o/
<didrocks> seb128: stop staring at #commits :)
<seb128> lol
 * didrocks wonders if seb128 has some hilight on desktop team members name as well to spy them on channels :)
<seb128> I don't stare, I barely glance over it every now and then ;-)
<didrocks> it's just that less than 1 min after the commits, sounds weird :p
<rodrigo_> didrocks, btw, just finished building evo-couchdb with latest evo/eds, and it works, so submitting a branch in a minute, after I test your patch
<didrocks> rodrigo_: nice!
<Laney> didrocks: please apply prodding to the appropriate people about banshee ;-)
<Laney> morning btw
<didrocks> morning Laney
<didrocks> Laney: all is ready? MIR and default plugins?
<Laney> yep
<Laney> i will admit that i haven't tested in a clean vm though
<Laney> that's what users are for right ;)
<didrocks> well, let's hope that the build in main is working
<didrocks> Laney: can you post here the MIR bugs #
<Laney> bug 607291 bug 607304
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 607291 in taoframework (Ubuntu) (and 18 other projects) "[MIR] banshee (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607291
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 607304 in taoframework (Ubuntu) (and 7 other projects) "[MIR] banshee-community-extension (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/607304
<didrocks> ok, looks good
<didrocks> asac: ^ jcastro wants to buy you some whiskey if you do that for A1 :)
<didrocks> thanks Laney
<Laney> no worries
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, built and running, so I just open the background panel to have the files created in ~/.cache/wallpaper?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, just change the wallpaper
<didrocks> rodrigo_: or click on the same, I think it works
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, no num... files there
<didrocks> you should have a 01_
<rodrigo_> I have the same files as before
<didrocks> grrr, I should have a gtk3 stack to tries it
<didrocks> and debug
<asac> didrocks: i will ... and i will add you to the MIR team
<didrocks> asac: what? it's jcastro's fault :)
<pitti> didrocks: congrats for getting the wallpaper cache patch upstream
<rodrigo_> didrocks, while you build the gtk3 stack, just send me patches, I can test them
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: hum, it's weird, can you remove every files from there?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and click an a background?
<rodrigo_> can I have a review (+ merge, can do the upload myself) of this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-couchdb/0_5_1_release/+merge/41847
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<seb128> didrocks, well it's easy enough, activate the ppa and install g-c-c
<didrocks> seb128: I need g-s-d as well?
<seb128> didrocks, I did it yesterday and downgraded today
<seb128> didrocks, the depends system will trigger g-s-d in
<rodrigo_> didrocks, now it created a 1_* file
<chrisccoulson> hello everybody
<didrocks> rodrigo_: oh ok, nice :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<didrocks> rodrigo_: so, if you change that file with shotwell
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for the tip :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you may have to click on the *same* wallpaper again, not sure, but the background should change
<rodrigo_> shotwell says it doesn't recognize the format
<didrocks> rodrigo_: argh, gimp? :)
<rodrigo_> let me change it with gimp
<didrocks> I remember now that shotwell rely on extensionsâ¦
<rodrigo_> yeah, naughty shotwell :)
<didrocks> not MIME type
<rodrigo_> didrocks, well, the file in the cache was the previous wallpaper I had
<rodrigo_> so do I change the background back to that one?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks, but a little tired today
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yes please
<seb128> chrisccoulson, late hacking yesterday?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, the cache was updated, and removed my change there
<chrisccoulson> seb1128 - yeah, i finished about 430am
<didrocks> rodrigo_: nice, and if you change the content again?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and click on the same, you should see the "hacked" image
<didrocks> (without clicking even)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sleep is for weaks as would say asac? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<RAOF> Mmmm, week's sleep... :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, no, it seems it regenerates the thmbnail
<didrocks> rodrigo_: hum, ok, I'll have a try thenâ¦
<didrocks> thanks rodrigo_ :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, you're welcome
 * rodrigo_ needs to run some errands, bbiab
<didrocks> rodrigo_: argh, I got it, nautilus isn't using libgnome-desktop3, so it still use libgnome-desktop :)
<didrocks> hence the two formats exists
<didrocks> ok, we will get to that later then
<seb128> didrocks, it should in the ppa
<seb128> didrocks, the new nautilus is in the ppa
<didrocks> ok, let apt-get install then
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: got a time?
<didrocks> hum Gtk-ERROR **: GTK+ 2.x symbols detected. Using GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported
<didrocks> aborting...
<seb128> what did you do?
<didrocks> apt-get install nautilus
<didrocks> thinking that the dep will take the right libs
<didrocks> not sure I want to break my machine at this point :)
<seb128> didrocks, you probably didn't update the lib and whoever did the update forget to update the shlibs
<didrocks> yep, that's my feeling
<seb128> it's just libnautilus*
<seb128> I had the issue there as well
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> and you ensure downgrade will be easy? :)
<didrocks> ah, nautilus starts, now, thanks!
<seb128> sudo apt-get install gnome-control-center/natty capplets-data/natty gnome-control-center-dev/natty nautilus/natty nautilus-data/natty gnome-settings-daemon/natty gnome-media/natty
<seb128> didrocks, ^ I did that earlier
<didrocks> seb128: ok, nice :)
<didrocks> so, I get the wallpaper cache with what was expected, let's see
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to add the libnautilus as well to that line
<didrocks> seb128: yep, I will, thanks!
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> ok, it seems to pick the cache :)
<didrocks> nice
<asac> didrocks: sure ... are those bugs targetted against alpha 1?
<didrocks> asac: I didn't check if aney did that, I'll
<asac> didrocks: if not i need a bug list in priority order i guess
<didrocks> asac: both are linked, one is the banshee extension, the other one, banshee
<didrocks> Laney: handled the MIR ^
<Laney> which bugs?
<Laney> not clear on what you want
<Laney> it all needs to be promoted at the same time if that's what you mean
<didrocks> Laney: just target them for A1, I guess for now
<rodrigo_> didrocks, hmm, nautilus from the ppa still links to gnome-desktop 2?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: did you killall nautilus for the test ? :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: to take the new gnome-desktop3 lib with nautilus
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I logged out and back in
<seb128> rodrigo_, no it doesn't
<didrocks> rodrigo_: hum, weird thenâ¦
<seb128> rodrigo_, but the new libnautilus doesn't get pulled in
<seb128> if you just upgrade nautilus
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, ok I guess that release doesn't have the header file changes
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> didrocks, did you check it works for you?
<didrocks> seb128: the cache wallpaper or just nautilus?
<seb128> both
<didrocks> nautilus, yes, the cache is also there
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> can someone please review this -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-couchdb/0_5_1_release/+merge/41847 ?
<didrocks> but there is one extra file there, should be related to vuntz'change
<didrocks> I have to investigate but I don't have time
<rodrigo_> didrocks, what extra file?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: a 0_â¦
<didrocks> I have a 1_ and a 0_ when I tested
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, yes, saw that also
<rodrigo_> they should all be 1_... ?
<didrocks> and vuntz changed in one function the get_*n_deskop and put 0_
<didrocks> so, I guess that's why. Not sure about the path which is used
<didrocks> needs more investigation as said, but need more time :)
<rodrigo_> hmm, evo can't access my local addressbook
<rodrigo_> didrocks, there's a bug with migration of evo addressbooks and calendars
<rodrigo_> didrocks, just been told in #evolution
<didrocks> ok, keep me posted :)
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: As for that GNOME DVB daemon FTBFS, its due to the valac-0.10 -> valac-0.12 migration
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: upstream is working on it ATM
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: ok thanks for investigate. are there any bug reported? after bug fix, we should get cherry-pick to fix migration
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: just a sec
<bilalakhtar> ari-tczew: bug #676263
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 676263 in gnome-dvb-daemon "Fails to build with vala 0.11.2 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676263
<kklimonda> seb128: yes?
<seb128> kklimonda, hey
<seb128> kklimonda, I've commented on the bug
<ari-tczew> bilalakhtar: thanks, I've subscribed myself to bug.
<kklimonda> seb128: ok, I'll answer there
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, so the problem is that the sources in gconf are not migrated to the new location (~/.local/share/evolution...)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, so you need to do it by hand :(
<rodrigo_> so we need to fix the bug
<didrocks> rodrigo_: argh, rightâ¦
<rodrigo_> and editing the xml in gconf is one of the less user-friendly things I've seen :)
<rodrigo_> I'll look at the code to see if I can fix the bug
<didrocks> great
<ari-tczew> kklimonda: g-s-d is in proposed.
 * kenvandine waves
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<kenvandine> seb128, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/libindicator/ubuntu
<seb128> kenvandine, hello
<kenvandine> please take a look when you can
<seb128> kenvandine, happy thanksgiving!
<kenvandine> no rush, lets not upload yet
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, I guess we might as well upload those after a1
<kenvandine> tedg had asked me to wait to upload, he might have another abi break in dbusmenu
<kenvandine> but at least they are ready :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> I will review it today
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> i am going to play the wee with my son now  :-)
<kenvandine> wii even
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> have fun!
<kenvandine> later!
<seb128> what game do you play?
<seb128> bye
<kenvandine> the new super mario brothers
<kenvandine> he is completely addicted to it :)
<kenvandine> that and angry birds on my cell phone
<kenvandine> but at least on the wii i can play too :)
<kklimonda> ari-tczew: I'll try to test it today
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine, a core-dev, is going to play a game!
<ari-tczew> thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, have fun!
<seb128> didrocks, you really have no luck with that caching patch
<seb128> didrocks, they rolled a tarball but credited the work to mccann rather than you ;-)
<seb128> in the NEWS
<didrocks> seb128: really?
<didrocks> vuntz: ^
<kklimonda> seb128: when I remove some file from gtkmm (it was moved to atkmm) I don't really have to replace and break the previous package, right? It's enough to make atkmm replace and break the old one?
<seb128> didrocks, I told it to hadess
<seb128> he's sorry
<seb128> but it's done now...
<didrocks> okâ¦
<didrocks> it's like for the gtkresize grip
<seb128> <seb128> hadess, the caching work was done by didrocks not mccann
<seb128>  just for info since the NEWS credit it wrongly
<seb128> <hadess> seb128: it wasn't mentioned in the git log
<seb128> <hadess> oh yes it was
<seb128>  damn
<seb128>  sorry
<didrocks> no worryâ¦ but well
<seb128> didrocks, not really, at least yours is correctly credited in git, it's only the NEWS
<didrocks> yeah, wellâ¦ I should get it to break everything then!
<seb128> it's part of vuntz's plan to make sure they can troll us for not contributing I'm sure :p
<didrocks> of course!
<seb128> kklimonda, replace and break from where?
<seb128> kklimonda, gtkmm on itself?
<seb128> kklimonda, not sure to understand the question but just make the new gtkmm depends on atkmm and atkmm replaces,breaks the old gtkmm as you did
<seb128> or said in another way
<kklimonda> seb128: ok, that's what I was asking :)
<seb128> you should not have to do anything else on gtkmm out of updating and depending on atkmm
<seb128> didrocks,
<seb128> <hadess> pushed a fix
<seb128>  although it won't get in the release...
<didrocks> seb128: oh nice, thanks for talking to him :)
<seb128> no worry
<didrocks> ok, rebooting sessions a little bit, bbiab
<seb128> bryceh, mvo, hey
<seb128> could you get https://code.launchpad.net/~bryce/software-properties/rm-apt-repository/+merge/25988 out of the sponsoring queue by some way?
<seb128> I think it's in the archive as its own source at the moment
<seb128> dunno if it would make sense having it in software-properties
<didrocks> nice, no gdm at startâ¦ seems nvidia is broken
<mvo> seb128: I need to look how to best integrate it, sorry for letting it slip
<seb128> mvo, nothing to be sorry about, it doesn't need immediate resolution but seems rather something that should be on a bug assigned to you than on the sponsoring queue?
<seb128> mvo, it's between 2 distro team members and seem to need some work rather than sponsoring?
<didrocks> grrr, not sure what to revert in this morning dist-upgrade
<mvo> seb128: it should be more a wishlist bug or a merge request, no immediate action item
<seb128> mvo, it's a merge request
<mvo> seb128: I removed a bunch of those on my pilot day (items that were not really sponsoring requests)
<mvo> you may just unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<mvo> is it pilot day for you today? or do you fly everyday ;) ?
<seb128> they are not subscribed to it
<mvo> aha, ok
<seb128> mvo, I fly a bit every day
<mvo> I thought it was in the context of the sponsoring queue
<seb128> it's on the sponsoring queue
<seb128> I'm not sure why
<mvo> hmmmm
<seb128> I guess because the ubuntu team has been asked for review
<didrocks> tjaalton: hey, are you around?
<seb128> mvo, I've set the ubuntu team review to needs info
<seb128> mvo, let's see if that makes it drop the list
<seb128> drop from the list
<seb128> mvo, you might want to clean https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/+activereviews
<seb128> mvo, you have things pending for years it seems ;-)
<mvo> *pfff* ;) for some stuff LP just didn't get that its already done
<mvo> (like the synaptic ones)
<mvo> or iirc the u-m one
<seb128> mvo, I'm cleaning some
<seb128> mvo, well it has issues sometime like people ask to merge in stable and it's merged in stable-proposed because it's the right location...
<mvo> I will double check, but IIRC for some I wasn't able to find the right knob to say "no no, this is done already"
<didrocks> ok, trying a reboot
<seb128> mvo, you can try setting them to merged
<seb128> mvo, that's what I do usually
<mvo> ok
<rulus> Heya! I have some questions about bug #676972 and the procedure of things. MSN in Pidgin is currently broken because MS changed their SSL certificates. Updates have been released for natty and maverick, but older versions (ie Lucid) are still broken. Upstream released 2.7.7 to fix the issue, but not all these fixes are in the natty and maverick updates. I wonder what's the next step?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 676972 in pidgin (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "pidgin does not connect to msn, certificate error (affects: 43) (dups: 3) (heat: 176)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676972
<seb128> rulus, hello
<rulus> hi!
<seb128> rulus, I was planning to update natty today
<seb128> lucid still needs a SRU
<seb128> if the maverick SRU is not enough another one will be required
<rulus> yes, I know, I provided a debdiff for Lucid
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I will review and sponsor that in a bit
<tjaalton> didrocks: yep
<rulus> I don't have a maverick machine here, so can't do that one
<rulus> seb128, thanks :)
<seb128> np
<cyphermox> hey didrocks, I have attached debdiffs to bug 664167, bug 664169 and bug 665330.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664167 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Encode proxy user/password in proxy URL (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664167
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664169 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "loading images doesn't use proxy credentials (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664169
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 665330 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Hide Junk messages in Search folders (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665330
<didrocks> tjaalton: it's ok, ignore me, it was a grub issue after all :)
<didrocks> tjaalton: sorry for the noise
<didrocks> cyphermox: the SRU can wait next week if possible :))
<didrocks> cyphermox: I think you have some nm-applet and evo-exchange FTBFS to fix rather :p
<cyphermox> well, afaict it's all ready for the sru
<cyphermox> didrocks, then can you do a no-change rebuild of evo-exchange ^.^ ?
<cyphermox> nm-applet I expect to be done fixing the list of wifi networks today, then I put this back into a clean patch and upload, so I'm on track :D
<didrocks> nice!
<cyphermox> it's already working and more or less usable too!
<didrocks> cyphermox: why did you want a no-change rebuild for evo-exchange?
<cyphermox> didrocks, afaik, there is nothing to change. the build-deps are fine and evo itself was just not published yet
<didrocks> cyphermox: did you read the build log?
<cyphermox> didrocks, am I missing something obvious?
<cyphermox> yes of course
<didrocks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59558821/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.evolution-exchange_2.32.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<didrocks> it's failing in compiling the code itself
<didrocks> it installs the latest evo-dev
<cyphermox> huh
<didrocks> the error should be related to deprecated symbols
<cyphermox> what was I looking at yesterday then ??
<didrocks> cyphermox: I (or someone, don't remember) retried the rebuild 22 hours ago
<cyphermox> ah, ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: you should have received the FTBFS in your inbox
<cyphermox> I fail
<cyphermox> alright, looking into it now ;)
<didrocks> thanks
<mpt> seb128, hi, will the Preferences/Administration items in 11.04 open the same versions of gnome-control-center panels that they opened in 10.10? (Sorry to ask you something that I think I've asked you before.)
<seb128> mpt, we don't know
<seb128> mpt, it depends how GNOME3 shapes in the ppa
<seb128> mpt, we didn't decide yet
<mpt> seb128, do you know when you'll make the decision?
<seb128> mpt, but there is an high probability that GNOME will stay similar to what 10.10 has
<seb128> mpt, probably at the rally
<mpt> ok, thanks seb128
<seb128> mpt, but we think GNOME3 will stay in the ppa in natty
<mpt> The whole of Gnome 3? Crikey
<seb128> mpt, you can't really take on piece without making everything go with it
<mpt> ok
<seb128> mpt, like if you port g-s-d to gsettings you need all the software using those keys to use gsettings
<seb128> mpt, or if you port nautilus to gtk3 you need all the components interacting with nautilus to be on gtk3
<seb128> mpt, they are also moving things like automounting to g-s-d
<mpt> seb128, but you are trying to find room for just GTK3 in Natty, right?
<seb128> which at the end put us is an "update the desktop set or not"
<seb128> mpt, gtk3 is on the CD
<seb128> mpt, apport has been ported to it
<seb128> unity will use it
<mpt> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128: are you updating gnome-desktop-3 new version?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, I'm preparing a branch for the new g-s-d
<rodrigo_> so, will wait for your package
<rodrigo_> also, can I really have a review of this please :-) -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-couchdb/0_5_1_release/+merge/41847
<rodrigo_> review + merge, I can do the upload myself
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> looking very quicklyâ¦
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you don't build-dep on a new evolution-dev ?
<didrocks> in debian/control
<rodrigo_> didrocks, it builds with any version of e-d-s
<rodrigo_> that's why I didn't add it, but can do it
<didrocks> oh ok :)
<didrocks> no, I was thinking that Port to evolution-data-server >= 2.31.0 API was making it uncompatible with older version
<rodrigo_> didrocks, no, a lot of #if EDS_CHECK_VERSION in the code
<didrocks> in that case and if you tested it, approved :)
<rodrigo_> ok, uploading then
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you should rename it debhelper :p
<rodrigo_> can you please merge it
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> sure
<rodrigo_> I guess kenvandine is off today for thanksgiving, right?
<chrisccoulson> oops, looks like i didn't push the last gnome-python-extras update to bzr ;)
<seb128> rodrigo_, today and tomorrow I think
<seb128> rodrigo_, they most take friday off as well
<rodrigo_> didrocks, the evo migration thing is fixed, so taking the patch from git, and will submit a fixed evo package, ok?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, nice!
<didrocks> thanks
<rodrigo_> didrocks, hmm, any reason you submitted 2.32.0 and not 2.32.1?
<rodrigo_> that is, should I update to 2.32.1 while I'm at it
<rodrigo_> ?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: asked cyphermox he did the work ^
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ^^
<didrocks> I just reviewed and sponsored
<didrocks> (and fixed :))
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, when I started 2.32.1 wasn't released
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, ok, I'll upate it now then
<cyphermox> rodrigo_, have fun :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<cyphermox> didrocks, on the subject of evolution-exchange, any reason why /usr/lib/evolution-exchange/2.32/libexchange.so, or libxntlm.so don't get installed?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, gnome-desktop3 update uploaded to natty
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw did you manage to get gnome-applets working?
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, still failing on the introspection stuff
<rodrigo_> I'm trying now to rebuild the libpanel-applet gir package
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ok, I need someone who has a clue about vala
<seb128> ayatana-plugin.vala:6.1-6.30: error: unable to chain up to private base constructor
<seb128> class AyatanaPlugin: RB.Plugin {
<seb128> what does that mean?
<seb128> kenvandine, njpatel: ^
<seb128> the same source was building fine on maverick but fails on natty
<njpatel> they need to have a Object (); call inthat function
<njpatel> sorry, in the public AyatanaPlugin()  fuction
<njpatel> function
<seb128> njpatel, http://paste.ubuntu.com/536362/
<seb128> njpatel, where? ;-)
<njpatel> seb128, Object(); in line 10, move the rest down
<njpatel> seb128, WAIT
 * njpatel read it wrong
<njpatel> public AyatanaPlugin () { Object (); } in that class should fix it
<seb128> njpatel, it does, thanks a bunch
 * seb128 hugs njpatel
<njpatel> :D
<rodrigo_> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-data-server/2_32_1_release/+merge/41879
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, wait, I forgot one patch from git
<njpatel> I'm missing one didrocks. He's French, carry's a small netbook, generally is laughing. Anyone seen him?
<pitti> njpatel: last time I saw him, he installed a new unity and then said "restarting my session" :)
<njpatel> uh oh
<njpatel> he's gone
<pitti> (just kidding)
<njpatel> let's find another one ;)
<seb128> njpatel, he got bitten by the grub update breaking his nvidia drivers it seems
<seb128> njpatel, he's probably trying to sort that so he can test unity
<seb128> speaking of who
<njpatel> didrocks, !
<didrocks> humâ¦ I should have known that now ping in 15 minutes was weirdâ¦
<didrocks> no*
<didrocks> seb128 | speaking of who -> you were telling bad things about me, isn't it?
<seb128> <njpatel> I'm missing one didrocks. He's French, carry's a small netbook, generally is laughing. Anyone seen him?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> excellent :)
 * didrocks hugs njpatel
<seb128> (I will not copy what was after)
 * njpatel hugs didrocks 
 * didrocks will look at irclogs :)
<njpatel> didrocks, https://launchpad.net/nux/0.9/0.9.6
<didrocks> njpatel: nice!
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, new e-d-s and evo ready -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution-data-server/2_32_1_release/+merge/41879 and https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/evolution/2_32_1_release/+merge/41883
<njpatel> didrocks, distcheck is broken but make check passes, it's an error in the environment setup of distcheck. So I did make dist this week, but will fix for next week
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you subscribe me to the merge, please?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I guess didrocks is busy with unity today
<didrocks> njpatel: ok, no worry
<njpatel> just doing Unity now
<didrocks> seb128: nice guess! :-)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yeah, sure
<seb128> I would ping other people usually
<didrocks> and some compiz too!
<seb128> but it's thanksgiving and we miss the us guys
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, just didn't want to ping you all the time :-)
<rodrigo_> so will just subscribe didrocks
<seb128> yeah, I'm busy as well
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> right, there is no hurry for those
<rodrigo_> well, if people install the 2.32.0 versions, the migration doesn't work
<rodrigo_> and after that, no migration will be run, afaik, so it's somewhat urgent, to avoid having people to do the "migration" by hand in gconf
<rodrigo_> but yes, it can wait
<seb128> well maybe pitti has some time for sponsoring
<rodrigo_> pitti, if you're not too busy
<pitti> rodrigo_: your two merges? will it be enough in ~ 30 minutes, so that I can finish my current brain state? or is that blocking stuff?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, no that hurry, so yes, it can wait
<rodrigo_> thanks
<pitti> rodrigo_: thanks; will do tonight still, then
<rodrigo_> pitti, I just did the packages to avoid having people have to do what I had to do (migrate by hand)
<seb128> thanks pitti
<rodrigo_> pitti, cool, that's perfect, thanks again
<pitti> rodrigo_: they look fine from a very quick first sight
<rodrigo_> pitti, just review them when you have time, not really hyper urgent, so finish what you're working on, please :-)
<pitti> rodrigo_: migrate by hand> oh, is that from today's dist-upgrade?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<pitti> i. e. current packages do a broken migration?
<rodrigo_> pitti, the  XML sources in GConf are not updated to point to the new location (~/.local/share/evolution)
<pitti> rodrigo_: will they re-attempt the migration (the extra patch sounded like that), or will natty users just have to deal?
<rodrigo_> natty users that have already upgraded and run evo, I think they'll have to deal by hand
<rodrigo_> not 100% sure, let me ask
<pitti> rodrigo_: that might be worth a message to ubuntu-devel@
<pitti> (after the fix is in)
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: btw, while you are working in branches, or commit to our packaging branches, keep the upload target as "UNRELEASED"
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: once you (or the sponsor) uploads, they'll change that to "natty" (or whatever) with "dch -r" and commit that change with "debcommit -r", so that it stands out in the bzr log, gets properly tagged, etc.
<rodrigo_> it's just dch -i which sets it to natty
<pitti> not for me :) /me pats ~/.devscriptsrc
<pitti> DEBCHANGE_RELEASE_HEURISTIC=changelog
<pitti> ~/.devscripts actually
<rodrigo_> ah, cool
<rodrigo_> and can I build stuff with UNRELEASED in changelog?
 * rodrigo_ tries
<pitti> sure
<pitti> rodrigo_: dpkg etc. don't care
<pitti> just soyuz will when you upload
<pitti> rodrigo_: uploads to PPA will be rejected as well
<pitti> rodrigo_: but it's very useful for multi-maintainers, and even just for you if you occasionally change stuff in bzr without immediate upload
<pitti> rodrigo_: it'll tell you whether you just keep adding to the smae changelog, or need to start a new version number
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> pitti, btw, answer from #evolution:
<rodrigo_> <mcrha> rodrigo, not completely, but th eissue with file:// -> local: should work, though it doesn't cover your issue, with the uri itself.
<pitti> oh, you already tagged 2.32.1-0ubuntu1? or is that bzr branch mash-up?
<rodrigo_> so, the migration would fix some part only
<pitti> rodrigo_: I did an additional small change, and now tag and upload
<rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, used debcommit -r to commit to my branch
<pitti> ah
<rodrigo_> pitti, oh, ok, what change?
<pitti> rodrigo_: please don't do that unless you actually upload
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: removed (Debian's) Vcs-Svn from debian/control, they break debcheckout
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, if you use "debcommit" instead of "debcommit -r", then your bzr revision will have a proper changelog, too
<pitti> (extracted from debian/changelog)
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah, ok, so -r does the tag, which is what you don't want, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> rodrigo_: and it also creates a "release as 123" bzr changelog entry, which isn't actually true
<pitti> that's why this should only be done right before you upload
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> powerpc is lagging a bit isn't it?
<chrisccoulson> Start 2010-11-27
<chrisccoulson> :/
<chrisccoulson> even my security builds from 3 days ago haven't built yet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have a lucid box handy?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i do
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you think you could sponsor http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59569410/debdiff_lucid2?
<seb128> I only have maverick and natty system to build things there
<chrisccoulson> yeah, sure. i'll build that now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks!
<bryceh> seb128, sorry, I've deleted it
<bryceh> seb128, dunno why it never got attention
<seb128> hey bryceh
<seb128> bryceh, well I guess mvo is busy ;-)
<pitti> sorry, my server was down, I probably lost a few messags
<pitti> so if you were saying anything to me in the last 30 minutes, please repease
<pitti> "repeat"
<pitti> (d'oh)
<didrocks> ok, time to go to bed
<didrocks> well, dinner and then bed :)
<didrocks> seb128: bon week-end! :)
<didrocks> and for others, see you tomorrow!
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, pidgin works. i'll upload it now
<chrisccoulson> i really should upgrade my lucid box ;)
<chrisccoulson> it feels out of date!
<rulus> chrisccoulson, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> thank you too :)
<pitti> 'nuff for today; have a good night everyone!
<chrisccoulson> 'night pitti!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great
<didrocks> I hate CMAKE!
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> phew, feel better :)
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks, I'm working tomorrow btw
<seb128> so see you tomorrow ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: oh really?
<seb128> yeah, I'm a bit behind on a1 tasks and I've nothing special to do
<didrocks> no slacking day left? :p
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> so I "skip" this one
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> nice to have you there tomorrow!
<didrocks> so, don't be afraid about http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59624117/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.unity_3.2.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> didrocks, I'm always happy to be around
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I plan to spent tomorrow around unity
<seb128> be warned
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> ahhh ;)
<didrocks> just on the ftbfs
<didrocks> I removed the gconf schema as it wasn't shipped here
<didrocks> but in fact, you know, cmake files, includes cmake files
<mvo> does it have alt-f2?
<mvo> now?
<didrocks> and as I have a newer compiz, one of them make the plugin not creating the schemas file
<didrocks> so, seeing that in advance is justâ¦ wellâ¦ impossible
<didrocks> (in unity, there is something like 13 inclues of cmake files)
<didrocks> mvo: well, the new compiz with the option I activated by default, yes
<seb128> didrocks, you got bitten by your --failmissing
<mvo> cool
<didrocks> mvo: but only if you have gnome-panel
<mvo> ?!?
<seb128> so "no"
<mvo> alt-f2 launches g-t?
<didrocks> and as we will remove gnome-panel :)
<seb128> mvo, it's not done yet
<mvo> aha
<didrocks> mvo: but at least, the binding is there
<mvo> :)
<didrocks> seb128: well, right, about the --failmissing, but I prefer to get it
<mvo> I may wait a little bit longer then ;)
<didrocks> and having a clean package
 * mvo calls it a day for a start
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mvo, enjoy your evening
<seb128> didrocks, you as well
<didrocks> enjoy your evening mvo!
<seb128> I'm just back from sport and off to shower and getting dinner
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, now that I could reproduce (just took 10 minutes to find what's happening and which cmake file was the guilty one)
 * mvo waves
<didrocks> I can sleep well :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> so, i'll retry a rebuild tomorrow after pushing the new compiz
<didrocks> just have to get sam and I finish the transition fomr 0.8 to 0.9 for the upload
<didrocks> then, double session, unity by defaultâ¦
<didrocks> all that tomorrow, just blocked on the transition :)
<didrocks> tomorrow will be nice!
<didrocks> seb128: have a good evening and see you tomorrow then :)
<didrocks> sport now!
<fta> seb128, thanks for maintaining the blueprint page, it's very useful for me to follow the progress of gnome3 in natty, as see what to expect and when
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, hey, sorry.  Unity doesn't always seem to notify me of windows that want attention!
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-26
<TheMuso> So... After a year and 3 days, we have another offocial pulse release. :)
<TheMuso> official
<TheMuso> Damn my typing is sucking today.
<charlie-tca> heh
<RAOF> Heh.  I thought that'd take longer :)
<TheMuso> I didn't know how long it would take.
<TheMuso> But its easy to role snapshot tarballs from the stable bugfix branch anyway.
<TheMuso> But it does mean version numbers can return to a cleaner state.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Would you be free to upload a simple mesa change to get it building on the buildds again?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Sure.
<TheMuso> Happy to do another test build for you if needed as well.
<RAOF> http://cooperteam.net/Packages/mesa_7.9+repack-1ubuntu2_source.changes
<RAOF> If you do a test-build you'll need to do a parallel test build to actually trigger the bug that caused the FTBFS.
<TheMuso> Hrm ok.
<RAOF> Which is why it went up in the -1ubuntu1 revision in the first place :)
<TheMuso> heh right.
<RAOF> Having DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=8 in the environment you call sbuild works.
<TheMuso> Ok
<RAOF> But I've run that with -1ubuntu1, verified that it fails, and then checked that -1ubuntu2 builds, so I'm confident it works now :)
<TheMuso> Ok running anyway.
<TheMuso> Hot weather sucks with computers, and cases that don't entirely have the best airflow...
<RAOF> Heh.
<TheMuso> My desktop may also need a cleanout...
<RAOF> It's nice and cool down here!
<TheMuso> Yeah its times like this I wish I was still on the mountains.
<TheMuso> With today's weather, the mesa build is doing well enough to push my CPU to the point where the warning alarm is going off. :)
<TheMuso> Ok now its gone, as we are at the package building stage. :)
<TheMuso> s/we are/the machine is/
<TheMuso> RAOF: uploading.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Thanks muchly.
<TheMuso> You're welcome... You know you ort to apply for core-dev one of these days.
<RAOF> Yes.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, did you have a look at yelp?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: There is not even orca support for it upstrea yet, and not all a11y bugs are fixed upstream yet, although there are only a few left.
<TheMuso> So just put it in, as seb said last week, either way we're damned. :)
<robert_ancell> I think that is the safest strategy..
<pitti> Good morning
<jasoncwarner> morning pitti!
<pitti> ah, no robert any more
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner, how are you?
<jasoncwarner> Pretty good...watching my countrymen celebrate thanksgiving from a distance !
<RAOF> Oh, wow.  *That's* why IRC looks funky.  The Ubuntu font seems to have grown a monospace.
<nigelb> heh
<didrocks> good morning
<jasoncwarner> morning, didrocks...
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner, how are you?
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: pretty good...cooking up a really lame version of thanksgiving for my family ;)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: hehe, the australian version now? :)
<jasoncwarner> didrocks: I think even australians would be ashamed of what I call "food" :)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: oh really? :)
<pitti> hey didrocks, good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<pitti> didrocks: should we move some of your a1 WIs to a2? or do you still plan to land some updates on Monday?
<didrocks> pitti: oh, most of them will be closed today
<pitti> oh, nice!
<didrocks> pitti: just wait a little, getting soon a compiz upload :)
<didrocks> and that unblock everything
<pitti> didrocks: wasn't meant for hurrying, just to see how we stand for a1
<pitti> at this point, postponing to a2 is very cheap :)
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: I think from my WI, it should be good
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<didrocks> pitti: the thing about our discussion yesterday on gnome-panelâ¦
<didrocks> we infered that people either launch gnome-wm or compiz
<pitti> .. (or metacity?)
<didrocks> well, we were talking about launching gnome-panel from there
<didrocks> or patching metacity for that as well? :/
<didrocks> but people clicking on the gnome-appearance-properties capplet on the "none effect" have metacity set by default in the gconf key
<didrocks> (this is why I set the gnomewm thing is broken by design, it's of little use)
<didrocks> reboot, brb
<dholbach> hello everybody
<didrocks> hey dholbach
<dholbach> didrocks, pitti: how do you see chances of bug 574046 being put into lucid, maverick, natty?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 574046 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "shares-admin doesn't "see" NFS and SMB installed (no support for Upstart jobs) (affects: 12) (dups: 4) (heat: 72)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574046
<dholbach> if you look at the upstream bug, you can see that upstream would be willing to merge it
<dholbach> 'lu seb128
<seb128> hey dholbach
<seb128> sorry I was doing some testing
<seb128> I should stay from now until I start upgrading unity and playing with that
<dholbach> no need to be sorry for that - at least somebody does some testing :-P
<seb128> dholbach, how are you?
<dholbach> Ã§a va bien - merci :)
<didrocks> seb128: don't upgrade
<didrocks> seb128: it's currently broken as sladen made a wrong fixâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, unity or grub?
<dholbach> I had a lot of fun doing my videocast yesterday - until a friend decided to visit me, the doorbell rang and Murphy started barking like crazy - everybody wanted to see the dog afterwards :)
<seb128> or both?
<didrocks> unity
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I saw the update yesterday and I was sure you would complain :p
<didrocks> of course, he didn't use the vcs, uploaded unity without understanding "why there is no gconf schema"
<seb128> dholbach, haha
<didrocks> "let's just remove it"
<didrocks> grrrâ¦
<dholbach> seb128, I was just asking about bug 574046 - do you think it's wise to get it into lucid, maverick, natty?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 574046 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "shares-admin doesn't "see" NFS and SMB installed (no support for Upstart jobs) (affects: 12) (dups: 4) (heat: 72)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/574046
<dholbach> if you look at the upstream bug, upstream offers a deal: he'll merge it upstream if we put it into lucid, maverick and natty :)
<seb128> dunno, ask the day patch pilot about it?
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> dholbach: g-s-t will disappear from natty, and adding support for upstart jobs is outside the SRU range IMHO
<dholbach> the patch isn't that big :)
<pitti> I thought shares-admin has been obsolete for a long time? we don't even install that any more, do we?
<dholbach> seems it's installed on my machine in maverick
<seb128> it has been mostly deprecated by nautilus-share
<pitti> dholbach: I'll have a look at it for lucid, but I don't think it makes much sense in natty, given nautilus-share
<seb128> we still install it because people need to edit shares they maed with it though
<seb128> or to be able to edit those
<seb128> or delete those
<seb128> nautilus-share doesn't share things the same way so it doesn't allow to edit those you did with it
<RenatoSilva> you guys have given up from translating ~/Desktop in some point of time, right?
 * hyperair needs to implement a UI for nautilus-share to do that.
 * pitti puts into his queue today
<RenatoSilva> also, anyone knows how to disable recently used list? I think it's managed by nautilus
<seb128> RenatoSilva, no, it's translated
<seb128> RenatoSilva, chmod .recently-used*
<RenatoSilva> seb128: but for root it's Desktop, for my regular user it's Ãrea de Trabalho
<seb128> in a mode where it's not writable for your user
<seb128> RenatoSilva, it's a service on session start which create those directories
<seb128> you might have started with a C locale
<seb128> or not started a session for the users but used sudo
<rodrigo_> hi
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I just s/Ãrea*/Desktop in ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs
<RenatoSilva> seb128: there's another regular user for which it's Desktop and I don't know why
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I think it was a very bad idea anyway, Ãrea de Trabalho as a directory name is boring
 * RenatoSilva starts using Desktop
<rodrigo__> can I have a review of this please -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/2_91_4_release/+merge/41911 (for the gnome3 ppa)
<RenatoSilva> how to get rid of  xsession-error?
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, of the .xsession-errors file you mean?
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: is it normal to have so many errors all the time?
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: there should be no error
<rodrigo_> well, what errors?
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: doesn't matter what
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: should that file exist?
<rodrigo_> lots of session-started apps put their output there, so not all of that are errors
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: the errors go there all the time
<rodrigo_> so, what errors do you see there?
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: so it's normla to have that file with some errors? ok
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, no, it's not normal to have errors
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: it's very big file, do you want to read it?
<rodrigo_> it's normal to have output of gnome-session and other session apps
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: so what's normal?
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, if you pastebin somewhere, I can have a look
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: on a file called ERROR? amazing!
<rodrigo_> yes, the name might be misleading, it contains output, not only errors
<RenatoSilva> will that file have any sensistive information?
<RenatoSilva> otehrwise can't be pasted
<rodrigo_> hmm, I think not
<rodrigo_> have a look at it first
<RenatoSilva> hahahahahaha
 * RenatoSilva reads 2890 lines, brb
<rodrigo_> :)
<RenatoSilva> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XQ0ZNY4T
<RenatoSilva> seb128: chmod doesn't work, it's written regardless!
<seb128> you didn't set the right mode
<seb128> chmod -w?
<RenatoSilva> seb128: -rw-------  1  => .recently-used.xbel
<RenatoSilva> seb128: it's the only .recently-used*
<RenatoSilva> seb128: something is +w it
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, most stuff in that pastebin are debug messages, and a few non-critical warnings, so they're not really critical errors
<RenatoSilva> seb128: it was -r--------  1
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, only one is (nautilus:1633): GConf-CRITICAL **: gconf_value_free: assertion `value != NULL' failed
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: so how to get rid of them, I don't like creating files endlessly
<rodrigo_> seems nautilus is calling that function with a NULL, which is wrong, but it's not critical
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, there's no way, just remove it when you log out, or something like that
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: amazing!
<RenatoSilva> considering there's no way to exec a command when I log out
<seb128> RenatoSilva, chmod 0 it?
<RenatoSilva> where log out means log out from gnome, not bash
<RenatoSilva> seb128: the same for recently used? will try
<RenatoSilva> if there was some .bash_logout equivalent for gnome (when I click log out), then I could remove these files there :(
<pitti> rodrigo_: want me to look at your gsd branch?
<rodrigo_> pitti, if you can, yes, please
<rodrigo_> pitti, it's for merging to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntugtk3 branch
<rodrigo_> pitti, and uploading to the gnome3 ppa
<pitti> rodrigo_: sure, will do
<rodrigo_> ok thanks
<pitti> rodrigo_: this isn't destined for natty yet?
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, not yet, just the ppa for now
<rodrigo_> seb128, you didn't upload the gnome-bluetooth package to the ppa, did you forget it or just that it needs more changes?
<pitti> rodrigo_: merged and uploaded, thanks
<seb128> pitti, yet -> ever
<rodrigo_> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: "ever" for natty?
<seb128> we discussed with robert_ancell this week
<seb128> we think that GNOME3 will stay out of natty
<rodrigo_> oh
<seb128> sorry I meant to do a status update but didn't have time yet
<seb128> well, we will decide at the rally
<seb128> and we still want GNOME3 in the ppa
<rodrigo_> ah, ok, I thought we were going to decide later in the cycle
<seb128> but it turns to be a dump of everything in the ppa or nothing
<RenatoSilva> rodrigo_: GConf-CRITICAL **: gconf_value_free: assertion `value != NULL' failed. This is a bug?
<seb128> rodrigo_, " well, we will decide at the rally"
<seb128> yes ;-)
<rodrigo_> RenatoSilva, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, but our feeling is that it's going to be lot of word for little benefit for users
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, I was answering to your "ever" thing :)
<seb128> we don't think we have time to tackle that work
<seb128> we will need to focus on unity now since it will be usable enough for that
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> GNOME3 doesn't bring a lot on the user perspective
<seb128> the work is mostly done to port to new technologies
<seb128> with some redesign
<seb128> the main different is the control-center
<pitti> well, at some point we need to do the jump to gsettings, etc., and we should not do it in an LTS cycle
<pitti> so in the olympic oyster there is our last chance?
<seb128> pitti, it's going to be next cycle yes
<seb128> pitti, well we do use gsettings already in some components
<seb128> pitti, GNOME3 will be out this cycle and ready in the ppa
<seb128> so we can dump it in oyster from day one
<seb128> we have 2 cycles then to deal with cleaning
<pitti> dholbach: ok, the patch looks quite straightforward, I'll sponsor it to lucid and natty then
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<seb128> pitti, thing is that GNOME3 has bugs
 * dholbach hugs pitti
<dholbach> what do you think about maverick?
<seb128> pitti, they dropped the gnome-appaerance-properties for example
<seb128> pitti, so we could need to redo the desktop effect capplet
<pitti> dholbach: forward-porting the patch, as for natty, I guess?
<seb128> not sure if we care about having a way to set themes for our users
<seb128> etc
<seb128> pitti, there is a lot of details to sort and I would rather not drive ressources away from unity
<pitti> seb128: right, makes sense
<dholbach> ah, so maverick and natty are the same?
<pitti> right
<dholbach> ok, super :)
<RenatoSilva> seb128: maybe make xsession-errors a link to /tmp/username-xsession-errors? I'll try that
<rodrigo_> seb128, about the desktop effects, isn't unity what should be providing that now?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it could be, it's just that they are things we need to sort
<seb128> and patches we will need to redo or update that we commented for now
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, GNOME3 itself is almost a full time job for the cycle if we want to do it right
<seb128> but the priority is unity this cycle
<seb128> so I don't think we can get both done in a rocking way
<seb128> imho we will should focus on unity and keep the GNOME3 ppa running on best effort basis
<seb128> it might be easier to get community help and to update after freezes etc in the ppa
<seb128> so it's not especially an issue
<rodrigo_> so, 11.10 is the next LTS release?
<dholbach> rodrigo_, 6.06, 8.04, 10.04, so I'd assume the next one would be 12.04
<rodrigo_> ok
<RenatoSilva> seb128: the recently used is echo "gtk-recent-files-max-age=0" > ~./gtkrc-2.0, will test now
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> ups
<seb128> I'm tried
<seb128> what dholbach said
<rodrigo_> :)
<RenatoSilva> thanks all
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, would you mind adding mozvoikko to the mozilla packageset please :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: done
<chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks
 * chrisccoulson uploads a working version now
<vish> mpt: hi, just noticed something funny in SC : have SC running in the background and accept to install an update in update manager. while updating, we suddenly have SC showing "In Progress" â¦ o.0  bug or a feature?
<vish>  confused the heck outta me for a min and wondered what was installing/removing..
<mpt> I didn't specify it, and I'm kind of ambivalent about it
<mpt> It does help in explaining why USC isn't doing anything else, if you had asked it to do anything else
<mpt> but, it is a bit weird
<vish>  apt-daemon â¦
<vish> oops!
 * vish files bug..
<chrisccoulson> apt-get source openoffice.org
<chrisccoulson> Need to get 507 MB of source archives
<chrisccoulson> !!!!!
<chrisccoulson> Good job I freed up some disk space!
<rodrigo_> :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, you want to rebuild it?
<rodrigo_> if you're going to compile it, start now, so that you get it on monday :D
<Laney> that's what buildds are for!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: if you want to do an upload, please do it before Monday
<pitti> chrisccoulson: as the armel builders will take about two days for it, and Thursday is alpha-1 time
<pitti> chrisccoulson: (but an upload will be appreciated, as it will drop about 8 MB from the CDs!)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i didn't want to do an upload, i'm just curious to figure out why it has a build-depend on xulrunner-dev, and whether i can drop it
<chrisccoulson> i don't want to end up maintaining OO.o too ;)
<chrisccoulson> has anybody tried building OO.o with the new toolchain?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't think so; until we get a real OO.o maintainer, I guess we'll build it against gcc/g++ 4.4
<pitti> (if we need an upload before)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's probably the best idea
<chrisccoulson> it's bad enough trying to make something small like firefox work with it ;)
<seb128> ok, I hate python it's decided
<seb128> or rather our python packaging
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> why does it keeps breaking
<chrisccoulson> i hate python too! :)
<seb128> update-manager doesn't start there
<seb128> and the amd64 retracer broke again after upgrade
<seb128> can't import wadllib
<seb128> hate hate hate
<Riddell> wait, we're Ubuntu, I thought we loved Python
<chrisccoulson> i hate it when i spend 30 minutes debugging an issue, only to find it's caused by indentation ;)
<dholbach> chrisccoulson, python -tt helps there :)
<chrisccoulson> dholbach, oh, cool. thanks! :)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Re language fixes, should we take a step backwards and talk some more about what we want to achieve?
<rodrigo_> hmm, does anyone know if there is a backport repo for pulseaudio for maverick?
<mvo> seb128: hrm, hrm, hrm, I check out u-m
<mvo> seb128: but yeah, we do not do well
<rodrigo_> hmm, so how do I merge-upstream for 1st time packaging of a new thing?
<pitti> GunnarHj: hello, how are you?
<pitti> GunnarHj: I thought from my POV gdm should just set $LC_MESSAGES and $LANGUAGES, and language-selector does everything permanently (writing configuration files, etc.)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Fine, thanks. You too, I hope.
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'm great, thanks
<GunnarHj> pitti: Trying to get a grasp of Empathy, which I haven't used before. Did you see the question I posted a few minutes ago?
<pitti> GunnarHj: the "Re language fixes, step back..."? yes
<pitti> GunnarHj: that's the one I answered to
<pitti> (but I was out at lunch)
<sladen> ...another channel
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, now I see it. I'll try to write down my thoughts on that particular issue, and get back to you. Think we need to reach consensus on that before discussing the code. :-)
<pitti> GunnarHj: I'd just desperately avoid anything in gdm which is expensive or changes files
<GunnarHj> pitti: But don't you think that the fact that nothing expensive happens except when the user actually changes language is good? Btw, considering the tiny amounts of data we are talking about, "expensive" isn't the word I would have chosen.
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, terminology :) calling grep and sed are already in the "expensive" category wrt. CPU usage for me
<pitti> GunnarHj: also, we should avoid writing files, since it can be utterly slow if your home directory is on NFS or similar
<seb128> mvo, it's not update-manager being broken
<seb128> mvo, it's just that python-things get broken for random reason
<seb128> until you --reinstall or upgrade them
<pitti> GunnarHj: and I think it shoudl actually be sufficient to just set LC_MESSAGES and LANGUAGE, since after all that's what matters in the end?
<seb128> the depends system is broken as well
<seb128> like update-manager started using 2.7 without pulling in version of python-things it needs
<fagan> im finally able to properly test unity now thanks to that upload yesterday :)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Did you notice my objection on the merge proposal, where I pointed out that one of the disadvantages with not writing the new setting to disk is that LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES would first be set when ~/.profile is read, and a couple of micro seconds later be set again based on dmrc and GDM_LANG[UAGE]? That might well happen at many logins, which in the long run would probably result in more CPU time.
<fagan> didrocks: just made supprisingly the only bug I found so far other than the dash not being up Bug: 681780
<didrocks> bug #681780
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 681780 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity [compiz] top panel doesnt hide when another app is in full screen (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681780
<pitti> GunnarHj: but it needs to run these checks anyway?
<seb128> pitti, hey
<didrocks> yep, juste not yet implemented
<seb128> just for info I got a natty amd64 retracer running
<seb128> I'm upgrading the i386 one next
<fagan> Its working very well I have to say
<seb128> pitti, we probably want retracing working to get nice unity bugs
<seb128> so I figured we could start those now
<didrocks> fagan: heh, thanks to the dx team :)
<pitti> seb128: you mean enable apport by default now?
<seb128> pitti, no
<seb128> pitti, just retrace the crashes we get
<pitti> we first need natty chroots
<pitti> ah
<seb128> pitti, I plan to add "enable apport" in the unity debug wiki
<seb128> pitti, <pitti> we first need natty chroots
<seb128> pitti, well what I was saying is "done for amd64"
<seb128> "i386 on its way"
<pitti> seb128: oh, I thought that referered to adding maverick-updates ddebs
<pitti> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> pitti, you're welcome ;-)
<pitti> brb, testing new plymouth
<seb128> pitti, I fixed the maverick ones as well
<seb128> they both have updates sources
<seb128> pitti,     from launchpadlib.errors import HTTPError
<seb128> hate hate python
<seb128> pitti, I'm fixing the i386 one
<seb128> it crashes on broken python imports
<GunnarHj> pitti: Without the checks it would need to _always_ set LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES, which reasonably cannot be more efficient in the long run. That's the point (no, one of the points) with writing to disk, i.e. normally gdm would only need to compare a couple of variables.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Btw, technically we are now talking about code belonging to language-selector, but it would be read and run by Xsession...
<pitti> GunnarHj: but setting an env variable costs no time; the checks are the important bit here, and I don't see how we can drop them
<GunnarHj> pitti: Maybe I misunderstood you about dropping checks. But setting LANGUAGE and LC_MESSAGES out from dmrc/GDM_LANG[UAGE] costs, if gdm shall not destroy the LANGUAGE list each time and to ensure that LC_MESSAGES is assigned a valid locale.
<pitti> GunnarHj: LC_MESSAGES is cheap (just =$GDM_LANG), LANGUAGE would only take some changes if it actually differs from $LANG/$GDM_LANG
<pitti> I think that's an overhead we need to live with
<pitti> I think it's just badly wrong for a session to mess with your configuration files
<pitti> (and cf. problems on NFS and the like)
<cyphermox> good morning!
<pitti> hey cyphermox, how are you?
<cyphermox> hey pitti, pretty good, and you?
<pitti> I'm fine, thanks!
 * pitti is patch piloting
<GunnarHj> pitti: We have been here before, I think. ;-)  For a number of reasons I can't currently get the pieces together without writing to disk.
<GunnarHj> 1. Since dmrc no longer is set based on a pure list of available locales, GDM_LANG[UAGE] may well contain 'en.utf8' or some other non-valid locale, so the lookup using locale -a etc. is needed.
<GunnarHj> 2. Without saving the language to disk if it's set by the gdm greeter, ~/.profile and ~/.dmrc may disagree, so you would need to fiddle with the LANGUAGE list at each login.
<GunnarHj> 3. What has LANG to do with it? Isn't separating LANG from LANGUAGE/LC_MESSAGES the main purpose with the fix?
<GunnarHj> Personally I feel that this is too complex to deal with via instant messaging only. I'd like to go back, think it over and write up my thought more systematic.
<pitti> GunnarHj: well, language-selector can (and should) write to the disk
<pitti> there you are in a running session, without the danger of not being able to log in, and performance doesn't matter either
<pitti> GunnarHj: $LANG shouldn't be touched any more; sorry, typo of mine
<pitti> GunnarHj: I think the gdm changes should be very small; it should only set LC_MESSAGES instead of LANG, and do some additional magic to adapt LANGUAGES if $GDM_LANG != $LANG
<pitti> (i. e. if you deviate from the system and user configuration)
<chrisccoulson> does anybody have any idea what this patch is for in gjs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/536688/?
<pitti> GunnarHj: I don't understand 1. The semantics and values from .dmrc or the language lists didn't change, i. e. "no longer" is confusing tome
<chrisccoulson> it seems to have been inherited from debian, but there's nothing at all in the changelog
<pitti> chrisccoulson: we have g-i from git head, so it might no longer apply
<pitti> (based on the patch comment)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, i'll drop it for now then. it doesn't apply to the new source tarball anyway
<pitti> (but I don't understand the patch at all)
<chrisccoulson> me neither. i just want to get gjs built against the latest spidermonkey version ;)
<GunnarHj> pitti: About dmrc and "no longer": Up to now, dmrc has been reflecting LANG, which has been set in the non-language tab in language-selector. That drop-down list seems to contain valid locales only, which is why Language in dmrc always has been a valid locale. I suggest that dmrc shall refect LANGUAGE instead, which is set in the language tab of language-selector. That drop-down list includes both language-country and lang
<GunnarHj> uage only items. Furthermore, if you pick a language only item in language-selector, the drop down list in the greeter starts displaying that item as well. Hope that explains it.
<GunnarHj> As regards risks with writing to disk: gdm obviously writes to both /var/cache/gdm/$USER/dmrc and ~/.dmrc already when the user picks some other language from the greeter than the preselected one. Why would it be more dangerous to write to ~/.profile at those, normally very few, occations?
<pitti> GunnarHj: .dmrc has a fixed structure and is "owned" by gdm, while ~/.profile is a free-form shell script and a full programming language
<pitti> it's bad enough that we need to touch it in language-selector, but we shouldn't duplicate that code out to several places
<jcastro> cyphermox: after the update it works for me.
<jcastro> cyphermox: I haven't roamed with it yet but it all appears to work so far
<pitti> GunnarHj: also, changing ~/.profile carefully requires a lot of checks
<pitti> GunnarHj: but right, changing ~/.dmrc would give the same problems on NFS and the like (which is why it's got a local cache file); I don't want to make this twice as bad by writing another (and much more complex) file
<pitti> GunnarHj: if we can stop language-selector from writing profile and only write ~/.dmrc, that'd be ideal IMHO, but I'm not sure whether it's feasible
<pitti> GunnarHj: .dmrc is used by other *dms as well, so we can't just redefine the meaning of "Language" there; it needs to stay a valid locale
<seb128> grrr internet
<seb128> does anybody know how to use launchpadlib to delete tags?
<cyphermox> jcastro, thanks
<seb128>     	bug.tags.remove('need-amd64-retrace')
<pitti> seb128: apport does that
<cyphermox> jcastro, I'm finishing up cleaning up my patch so that it may be upstreamable
<seb128> pitti, let me read the source
<cyphermox> then I'll upload one last copy of it to my ppa, then it will be ready for upload
<pitti> seb128:             x = bug.tags[:] # LP#254901 workaround
<pitti>             x.remove(self.arch_tag)
<pitti>             bug.tags = x
<pitti>             try:
<pitti>                 bug.lp_save()
<pitti>             except HTTPError:
<pitti>                 pass # LP#336866 workaround
<pitti> seb128: unfortunately there are two launchpad bugs to work around for this operation :/
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I tried
<seb128>     if need-i386-retrace in bug.tags:
<seb128>     	bug.tags.remove('need-i386-retrace')
<seb128>     bug.lp_save()
<seb128> pitti, ok, I miss the first workaround it seems
<pedro_> that didn't worked for me the remove('blah')
<pedro_> (pasting the code)
<seb128> pedro_, right, see what pitti said
<seb128> " x = bug.tags[:] # LP#254901 workaround
<seb128> <pitti>             x.remove(self.arch_tag)
<seb128>              bug.tags = x"
<seb128> he does that
<pedro_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/536703/ <-
<pedro_> that works fine here
<seb128> ok, you do the same
<pedro_> i've no idea why, but you can't remove the tags with the remove() method
<jcastro> cyphermox: nice work, I can't believe how relatively quickly you bashed that out
<seb128> pedro_, see pitti's comment
<seb128> pedro_, he has a bug number reference
<pedro_> seb128, looking
<pedro_> oh lovely lp...
<didrocks> session restart(s)
<seb128> pedro_, is bug.newMessage() the way to add a comment?
<pedro_> seb128, yes, bug.newMessage(content=comment, subject=title)
<bcurtiswx> anyone here using the desktop PPA for gnome3 ?
<pedro_> seb128, for subject i use bug.title
<GunnarHj> pitti: As regards the carefulness when editing ~/.profile, I tried to be just as "careful/careless" as the rest of the language-selector code is. The only risk I can see with not parsing the whole file is that you append a line to the bottom of the file when you should have replaced existing code.
<GunnarHj> Having language-selector change file for saving the user settings shouldn't be very difficult, but since the purpose of the file is to set env. variables, it reasonably ought to contain shell code. How about ~/.locale that basically looks like /etc/default/locale, and maybe with a comment that it shouldn't be edited manually? That would give us a more or less fixed form file whose ownership would be shared between gdm and
<GunnarHj> language-selector. :-)
<GunnarHj> I don't follow you as regards other *dms. Aren't we talking about setting an Ubuntu model for locale environment, irrespective of the desktop GUI?
<seb128> pedro_, bug #673722
<ubot2> seb128: Bug 673722 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/673722 is private
<seb128> pedro_, seems ok for you?
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> pitti, I'm adding a untag-retracing.py on ronne
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> pitti, it takes a file with a list of bugs and untag them for retracing and add a comment
<pitti> seb128: so similar to the "retag" script
<seb128> pitti, combinaised with a grep, sed in the log I untag all the old crashes
<pedro_> seb128, yes, looks fine
<pitti> nice!
<pitti> seb128: like the ones against jaunty etc.?
<seb128> and subscribe the triagers as well
<seb128> pitti, yes, everything which yelds a "skipping" line is the log
<seb128> grep -B1 skipping log | grep retracing | sed 's%.*#%%' | sort | uniq
<seb128> basically
<seb128> I'm copying the line in the script comment as well
<mvo> seb128: what is up with vte and python2.7 ?
<seb128> mvo, no clue, is it broken?
<seb128> I never tried to use it
<seb128> or does the source need a rebuild to pick the new version?
<mvo> it appears to be, I was wondering if its worth starting to debug or not
<seb128> I can't help you there
<mvo> ok, no worries
<mvo> I check it out then
<seb128> ok
<seb128> mvo, I think mterry got a new version in the gnome3 ppa
<seb128> you might want to start by checking there
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> pitti, is there a way to say to an apport hook to load another hook?
<seb128> like to say that unity bugs should have the compiz infos?
<pitti> seb128: untested, but  you can try calling report.add_hooks_info(ui, package='compiz') or srcpackage='compiz'
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, thanks a lot
<pitti> works?
<seb128> pitti, srcpackage= works
<seb128> it was spinning for ever with package=
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<bcurtiswx> good night pitti
<seb128> pitti, have a nice we as well!
<seb128> ok, we have natty retracers
<seb128> so at least unity crashes should get handled correctly
<seb128> ok, retracers all cleaned
<seb128> chrisccoulson, impressive work on gjs ;-)
<jcastro> didrocks: I was gone for two days, what's up with banshee?
<didrocks> jcastro: Laney finished yesterday the MIR, we pinged asac
<didrocks> jcastro: I'm afraid it's late for the MIR to be reviewedâ¦
<Laney> he asked me to target it to a1
<didrocks> oh right, forgot to tell it :)
<didrocks> so, maybe if the MIR is reviewed on Monday, it can be added to the seed
<Laney> doing the hopefully final-ish upload now
<didrocks> Laney: all the defaults extensions are there now? (sorry sorry, I really didn't have the time to follow that)
<Laney> yes
<Laney> but I forgot to disable notificationarea in banshee, so doing that now
<didrocks> nice :)
<didrocks> and the mpris support is working well?
<Laney> would be good if you or someone could test in a vm
<Laney> seems to work for me
<didrocks> I would if only I had the timeâ¦ :)
<jcastro> mpris/sm has been working great for me for a while
<Laney> how did the bug day go?
<jcastro> conor fixed his issues with it way early
<jcastro> Laney: it's going well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20101125
<Laney> awesome
<Laney> who is this kamus chap? clearly needs beer
<jcastro> indeed
<bcurtiswx> anyone using the ubuntu-desktop PPA test that launching nautilus and clicking the downloads folder (to be specific) causes a crash
<bcurtiswx> maybe it does it without the PPA too :-\
<jcastro> I suspect we're not going to get as many parity bugs as I wanted, but I am sure once it ships on a CD they will come in
<cyphermox> ahh, it's good to be back online :)
<jcastro> cyphermox: are you uploading nm-indicator to natty today?
<cyphermox> jcastro, hopefully, but I just noticed I forgot something pretty important...
<cyphermox> what about those who don't have indicators? e.g. xubuntu?
<cyphermox> anybody know how I can best detect whether I should use libappindicator or systray?
<jcastro> cyphermox: you can do a fallback thing, one sec, I know the answer to this!
<cyphermox> jcastro, actually, just found it
<cyphermox> it should work by itself, supposedly
<jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/13197/how-to-program-a-status-icon-that-will-display-in-ubuntu-11-04-as-well-as-in-othe
<jcastro> there, you get an answer from ted. :)
<cyphermox> d'oh, not so easy, apparently
<cyphermox> nevermind, it works, but NM had crashed
<jcastro> cyphermox: why not just leave nm-applet for the old stuff, and -indicator for the new?
<cyphermox> jcastro, I don't know. given we'd eventually go with connman I didn't see the benefit in starting something completely new, it felt simple to patch nm-applet for it to do the right thing depending on context
<jcastro> oh I see
<jcastro> cyphermox: g-p-m has a fallback, you can likely steal from there?
<cyphermox> jcastro, like I said, nm-applet had crashed, I just tried again and fallback worked properly
<jcastro> ah ok
<cyphermox> jcastro, can you do some more testing, incl. the fallback?
<jcastro> certainly
<jcastro> how can I trigger the fallback?
<cyphermox> I uploaded a proper package to my ppa, so now if that is good I could upload to natty
<cyphermox> hold on :)
<cyphermox> jcastro, this time the packages are here: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ppa/+packages
<cyphermox> as for fallback, you can remove the Indicator Application widget from the panel and add a systray
<chrisccoulson> jcastro, the g-p-m fallback is just using the fallback within libappindicator
<chrisccoulson> (ie, there's no extra code in gpm to do that)
<jcastro> cyphermox: oh ok, so basically test both in classic gnome?
<cyphermox> yeah
<jcastro> cyphermox: it worked!
<cyphermox> suhweet
<jcastro> the only problem I found was that it didn't run on login
<jcastro> I had to manually "nm-applet"
<cyphermox> really?
<jcastro> yes
<cyphermox> hm... works on my system
<jcastro> oh cool, it works the other way around too
<cyphermox> which?
<jcastro> if you readd the indicator it snaps right back into there
<cyphermox> yup
<jcastro> ok let me confirm my lack of nm-applet on start up
<cyphermox> ok. can you double check you have it in startup applications if not?
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> cyphermox: ok, "Network Manager" is checked and enabled in startup applications preferences
<jcastro> but it doesn't run on login
<cyphermox> crap
<cyphermox> oh wait
<cyphermox> which version do you have? I did make a mistake in one, the indicator would never be set active :D
<jcastro> I grabbed the one from your ppa
<cyphermox> jcastro, you'll want 0.8.2+git.20101123t161608.f143e76-0ubuntu1~mtrudel~ppa2, ~ppa1 had that error :)
<jcastro> cyphermox: ok which ppa then, your personal one or the indicator one you made?
<cyphermox> personal one
<cyphermox> the indicator one is built differently, merging three bzr branches to prepare the patch, but it's not actually applied as a patch
<cyphermox> whereas my personal ppa has the standard ubuntu package, packaging upstream as it is and applying one additional patch which is indicator support
<jcastro> ok weird, I have your PPA but don't see it as an upgrade
<cyphermox> it's accidentally a slightly older version :/
<jcastro> I want to get you an award for this version number
<cyphermox> sorry :)
<cyphermox> the version number that never ends? ;D
<jcastro> cyphermox: same problem with the downgraded version
<cyphermox> weird
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-27
<vish> was there a decision on LibreOffice being used for Natty? instead of OOo ?
<vish> i thought we were sticking to OOo, cant seem to find a bp or anything hinting that change..
<vish> i see only one work item here : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection and not sure what the outcome of jcastro talk with LibO folks was..
<jcastro> vish: someone from -desktop took that item iirc
<jcastro> they talked to libreoffice, I don't recall who it was
<vish> jcastro: cool.. thx. :)  i guess i'll ask again when seb is around
<sense> Is there a Python version of GDesktopAppInfo, or do you have to use something else to launch a *.desktop file?
<c_korn> import gio; gio.unix.DesktopAppInfo("nautilus-browser.desktop")
<c_korn> sense: ^
<sense> c_korn: Hurray! Thanks, I'll look into that.
<c_korn> sense: just googled it and found this snippet in an ubuntu forum
<sense> :) Your Google powers must be better than mine
<vish> hehe, sense's google sense is weak ;p
<vish> sense: i use the fusion icon to restart compiz.. not the best way but better than session restart i guess. :)
 * vish  not sure what the command to restart compiz is..
<sense> vish: But in Unity the panel and launcher go down with Compiz, because Unity is a Compiz plugin.
<sense> It crashed again shortly after I logged in. I'll switch to the 'classic' desktop!
<Amaranth> vish: `compiz &`
<Amaranth> :D
<vish> doh! :D
<vish> Amaranth: ah! i was always trying "compiz --replace" when it crashed :/
<Amaranth> If you just run `compiz` it automatically adds the --replace and (unless it has changed) a couple more things
<Amaranth> If you specify any arguments to it you need to specify _all_ of the arguments to it
<vish> oh!
<Amaranth> Yeah...
<Amaranth> Was trying to make it easy for people to use but also possible for advanced users to do whatever they want
<vish> Amaranth: thx.. was kinda a pain when i was testing unity last cycle.. mutter kept crashing then ;)
<sense> What code does launch *.desktop files in GNOME/Unity?
<sense> I'm using gio.unix.DesktopAppInfo, but I cannot get startup notification to work. Does anyone know what to do?
<sense> I'm now trying gtk.gdk.AppLaunchContext instead of gio.AppLaunchContext. Lets see if that works.
<sense> I think it is working now.
<ari-tczew> didrocks: can you help with one FTBFS due to vala?
<didrocks> ari-tczew: was just going to leaveâ¦ so not sure I can stay long enough
<didrocks> ari-tczew: just a tip on that:
<didrocks> we have two versions of vala in natty
<didrocks> try with each, vala is known for some langage regression
<ari-tczew> didrocks: you touched this package: bug 681975
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 681975 in pdf-presenter-console (Ubuntu) "Merge pdf-presenter-console 1.1.1+git.02dfcf-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/681975
<didrocks> did I?
<didrocks> oh right, the Gdk.color
<ari-tczew> didrocks: that's right, and there is still FTBFS
<didrocks> ari-tczew: maybe the gdk.color patch isn't useful anymore? did you try to ping the debian maintainer?
<didrocks> I think debian exp as a new vala which is on the same level than ubuntu
<ari-tczew> didrocks: I didn't.
<didrocks> ari-tczew: maybe try it there? I'm not that familiar with vala I'm afraid ::
<didrocks> ari-tczew: also, #vala-dev on gimp.net are quite friendly
<didrocks> with the FTBFS output, they can maybe be a good resource
<ari-tczew> didrocks: #vala-dev which server?
<didrocks> ari-tczew: on the gimp.net network
<ari-tczew> didrocks: ah, I thought that you suggest to find a help on website gimp.net
<didrocks> ari-tczew: no, it's an IRC channel
<didrocks> with great people :)
<ari-tczew> didrocks: ok, I'll get in touch
<didrocks> (ok, really going now)
<didrocks> ari-tczew: nice!
<didrocks> ari-tczew: enjoy your week-end :)
<ari-tczew> ehh, my weekend is only work :( unfortunately
<RenatoSilva> how to undo apt-get build-dep?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-28
<ari-tczew> robert_ancell: why didn't you take farsight2 from Debian unstable?
<robert_ancell> ari-tczew, I'll merge it later
<ari-tczew> robert_ancell: wasted time, duplicated work
<robert_ancell> ari-tczew, actually, it tends to be faster to update it this way
<ari-tczew> robert_ancell: how you guess, your choice. IMHO the same time could be spend on merge
<micahg> robert_ancell: you also run the risk of a mismatched tarball making merges more difficult later on
<ari-tczew> robert_ancell: I can do it, this merge. However, till 10th Dec I'm pretty busy.
<ari-tczew> and I'd like to be sponsored by you.
<ari-tczew> bdrung and dholbach has done a lot of sponsored for me.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-21
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is there a tool that lists all the X windows in a tree and their properties?  Ideally graphically and dynamic
<RAOF> I believe you might be looking for âxwininfo -tree -rootâ?
<Sarvatt> think i can answer that with a no, regarding dynamically and graphically
<robert_ancell> that would be a nice tool
<robert_ancell> Sarvatt, cheers
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so I want properties, and in this case the RESOURCE_MANAGER property
<RAOF> xprop (obviously) dumps those properties, but that doesn't get you your tree.
<RAOF> But a quick shell iteration over the grep of the output of âxwininfo -tree -rootâ should build you a tree of properties.
<robert_ancell> ta
<dobey> jasoncwarner_: ping :)
<pitti> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning
<RAOF> Morning pitti!
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> I'm ok.
<RAOF> Somewhat in a twisty maze of nux.
<pitti> RAOF: uh, what led you there?
<RAOF> Helping DX write some tests for unity.
<pitti> yay, current glib/g-i/etc. landing in unstable
<RAOF> Oh!  When is precise going to be debootstrapable?
<pitti> RAOF: how do you mean? it has been for a long time
<pitti> RAOF: we have had daily images since UDS
<RAOF> Hm.  So why is mk-sbuild failing with perl-modules?
<pitti> oh, still? that should only have been temporarily last Wed/Thu when Colin did the perl 5.14 migration
 * RAOF tries again.
<RAOF> Still a winner: "perl : Depends: perl-modules (>= 5.14.2-5) but 5.12.4-6 is to be installed"
<micahg> well, it seems the old binary is also present :-/
<micahg> perl-modules |   5.12.4-6 |       precise | all
<micahg> perl-modules |   5.14.2-5 |       precise | all
<pitti> o_O that shouldn't even be possible
<micahg> right
 * micahg wonders if the binary domination is broke, there was some work on that
 * micahg pokes LP devs
<RAOF> Hah.  And chrooting into that bootstrap and running âapt-get -f installâ *does* fix things, so it seems only debootstrap is confused.
<micahg> pitti: intended behavior, so debootstrap bug
<pitti> micahg: because we still have 14 rdepends on libperl5.12, and they require the 5.12 version?
<wgrant> No, we don't go that far.
<wgrant> It's because there are still arch-specific binaries from the old version.
<wgrant> Because a build from one of the archs hasn't finished, or has failed.
<pitti> ah, I just saw the "all" in above paste
<wgrant> Right, we keep arch-indep publications when there are still arch-specific publications for that source version.
 * micahg isn't sure what's still needed
<wgrant> Because armel doesn't want to be uninstallable when they're lagging.
<pitti> ok, so it's just debootstrap; thanks  for the heads-up!
<pitti> so it seems live-builder somehow doesn't have that problem
<micahg> wgrant: no perl build failures...so is this really supposed to be?
<wgrant> It's also possible that there's NBS.
<wgrant> But there's some old binary from that source still published.
<micahg> yeah, it's due to libperl5.12 still being around
<glatzor> morning pitti rodrigo_
<pitti> hey glatzor
<pitti> morning rodrigo_
<pitti> how are you? had a nice weekend?
<glatzor> pitti, weekend shift :)
<glatzor> but nevertheless it was nice. yourself?
<pitti> we went to Dresden and baked some cookies and a fortress (instead of the classical christmas house)
<glatzor> pitti, nice :)
<pitti> and met some friends and family again
<glatzor> pitti,  when I returned from work at Saturday I had the feeling just entering a backery: my girl firend baked 9 pieces of stollen
<pitti> wow
<pitti> who's going to eat all that?
<glatzor> hopefully the family and friends of us :) they are really huge
<glatzor> but it is weired to look at those stolen and having to wait 4 weeks before you can actually eat them
<pitti> we have one sitting here as well, can't wait for next weekend
<pitti> https://picasaweb.google.com/107564545827215425270/WeihnachtsbackenMitStVo02#5677358274213291218
<pitti> Phear!
<glatzor> pitti, impressive!
<rodrigo_> morning
<rodrigo_> hi glatzor, pitti
<glatzor> morning rodrigo_
<glatzor> morning mvo
<mvo> hey glatzor! gooooood morning :)
<didrocks> good morning
<mvo> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey mvo, how are you?
<pitti> hey mvo, guten Morgen
<glatzor> morning didrocks
<mvo> didrocks: tired, but at cup of tea will help me here
<mvo> hey pitti! guten morgen
<rodrigo_> bonjiour didrocks
<rodrigo_> and mvo
<mvo> hey rodrigo_!
<didrocks> good morning glatzor, rodrigo_, guten morgen pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: you are the approver of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-quickly, is that on purpose? if so, could you please have a look at it today?
<didrocks> pitti: sure, it was still drafting last time I checked, looking
<pitti> didrocks: cool, thanks
<mvo> glatzor: I see you already did 0.43+bzr707-1ubuntu1 in ubuntu-precise, I will merge the changes from julian and upload, ok?
<glatzor> mvo, you could update to the latest snapshot
<glatzor> mvo, I made the (internal) simulate call async and added some mainloop iteration to make the daemon respond faster
<mvo> glatzor: cool, will do
<glatzor> the worker/downloader separation should also be doable without threading - which will add download while installing support
<mvo> glatzor: r712, right?
<mvo> glatzor: man, you rock *so* hard
<mvo> glatzor: \o/
<glatzor> mvo, right r712
 * mvo prepares the package
<mvo> glatzor: any word/opinion on reviews for debian ?
<mvo> glatzor: hm, I get a error that it can't find org.freedesktop.PackageKit-aptd.service, maybe a forgoten bzr add ?
<glatzor> mvo, unluckily it has to be named  org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service so python-aptdaemon.pkcompat conflicts with packagekit
<mvo> glatzor: aha, so I need to fix the install file only, no problem
<mvo> glatzor: meh, that is really a bit unfortuante that they can't be co-installed
<glatzor> mvo, wait I haven't yet pushed my local changes
<mvo> glatzor: aha, ok
<mvo> glatzor: shall I wait?
<glatzor> mvo, done
<glatzor> mvo, dbus activation seems to require that the service file has got the same name as the to be activated interface
<glatzor> mvo, gnome-packagekit needs an or dependency on aptdaemon :)
<mvo> glatzor: heh, I'm sure rodrigo_ will be excited to hear that
<glatzor> mvo, python-aptdaemon.pkcompat actually
<mvo> glatzor: I pushed my own changes now, I do a testbuild and if its good I will upload
<seb128> hey
<mvo> hey seb128
<mvo> seb128: aptdaemon/PK goodness from glatzor on the way
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> great
<pitti> oh, it's a seb128!
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> seb128: enjoyed the long weekend?
<seb128> how are you? had a good w.e?
<seb128> yes, I did!
<pitti> seb128: yeah, went to Dresden to visit friends and family again
<seb128> went to the spas on friday that was nice, and mostly relaxed on satuday and sunday
<pitti> seb128: https://picasaweb.google.com/107564545827215425270/WeihnachtsbackenMitStVo02#5677358274213291218 was one of the results :)
<seb128> lol, nice one ;-)
<mvo> glatzor: hm, the system hangs for some seconds now e.g. on cache update in dbus-send org.freedesktop.PackageKit.StateHasChanged string cache-update"
<mvo> glatzor: known issue?
<mvo> seb128: what is "spass"
<seb128> mvo, plurial spa, but maybe it's not a plural in english
<seb128> sauna, jacuzzi, etc
<mvo> aha, nice!
<seb128> ;-)
<glatzor> mvo, oh yeah evil issue
<mvo> glatzor: if evil and known, that is good enough for me for now
<glatzor> mvo, the script is called by aptdaemon in process so that we cannot receive the signal in the same process
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! how about you?
<mvo> glatzor: hm, hm, anything we can do about this? (e.g. sending it out of process?)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, not too bad thanks. i think i'm finally getting over my ubuflu :)
<pitti> good to hear -- that was a tough one!
<glatzor> mvo, it is called by /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20packagekit
<pitti> seb128: WDYT about re-enabling apport soon? as we don't have an unstable GNOME release, we shouldn't currently have loads of crashes which will automagically fix themselves
<pitti> seb128: I'm working on client-side dupe detection this week, and for testing that on a wider scale enabling apport would be handy
<seb128> pitti, works for me though I guess what we will collect is mostly duplicates of known issues
<seb128> but we can still turn it off in a week if we think it's noisy
<seb128> so go for it ;-)
<pitti> and those are precisely what I'm interested in :)
<pitti> seb128: ok, thought so; checking with Daviey and cjwatson for foundations/server first, too
<mvo> glatzor: that isn't a blocker, I think, I will go ahead and upload so that we can enable the or-dep in gnome-packagekit and get testing
<mvo> glatzor: plus (most importantly) so that the tools like gnome-control-center are unblocked
<glatzor> mvo, the issue will only appear if you install packagekit. perhaps adding a small timeout to the script could be a solution
<glatzor> mvo, the script is called three times by apt on failure
<didrocks> pitti: I think with the Quickly spec, I gained some new WI and so, I'm above the limit again, I'll drop/postpone some WI as I think in addition to this, other WI will be added as wellâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: well, it's not a super-hard limit, but you really should be comfortable with the ones you have
<pitti> didrocks: also keeping your unity RM duties in mind
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, rather than deleting WI, I think I'll make "target for opportunities" list in some blueprints so that I can grab them if needed
<didrocks> seif: hey, what was the status about libroffice zeitgeist datasource? I think you need to talk to Sweetshark about this (people are giving nice feedback on the gedit and totem ones btw ;))
<pitti> didrocks: btw, does quickly take the couchdb EOL into account?
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, the new quickly-widgets shouldn't dep on it (it's a community volonteer doing it)
<didrocks> we discussed it at the session, but it's like to port quickly-widgets to gtk3 anyway
<pitti> someone please file an apport crash bug
<pitti> but nothing crashes in Ubuntu right now, right?
<pitti> getting closer to have client-side dupe detection work
<pitti> but next episode after lunch, bbl
<seif> didrocks, gedit is getting my plugin upstream
<seif> :)
<didrocks> great :)
<pitti> seb128: fixed the retracer crashes, whopsie
<seb128> pitti, danke
<Sweetshark> our sprint in Budapest ends on Friday, 13th. Not that I care too much, but UDS-O ended also on Friday, 13th ...
<pitti> that's why we flew out on Saturday :)
<Sweetshark> ... and on the flight back I was seated in row 13 (labeled 14) on _both_ flights.
<chrisccoulson> heh
 * Sweetshark feels flying again on Friday would be pushing his luck ....
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<dobey> Sweetshark: you'll notice most airplanes don't actually have a row 13 :)
<pitti> sure, they don't have a row number 13, but they have a 13th row (with number 14) :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad that i'm not superstitious :)
<dobey> pitti: well, not necessarily the 13th physical row; some planes skip several numbers between business and coach; so 1-3 are business, and coach starts at 10
<Sweetshark> I had a crazy continental flight with rows numbered 1-12, 14, 20-. I wonder why they had to keep row 14. For tradition? Or because they feared to run into troubled with people explicitly evading row 14, and then being scared by row 20?
<dobey> Sweetshark: was 20 the exit row?
<Sweetshark> dobey: not sure, but i dont think so
<dobey> Sweetshark: 20 was probably exit row, or the row just in front of it (which had immovable seat backs)
<seb128> hum, I should upgrade to precise
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, can I abuse from your build fixing time to look at the cairo upload I just did? it builds fine on oneiric but failed to build on precise, the ltmain.sh patch doesn't apply after autoreconf run
<seb128> it's likely trivial but I don't have a precise box yet to refresh that ltmain hack (I'm not even sure that's needed nowadays in fact with as-needed)
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<pitti> seb128: ah, we can't merge/sync gnome-bluetooth?
<seb128> pitti, we can merge I guess, but I try to clean outdated version first, will do merges later on
<seb128> pitti, we can't sync no
<seb128> pitti, we have an indicator patch
<pitti> seb128: libindicate is in Debian
<seb128> pitti, right but I doubt debian wants to transform the systray in an indicator
<pitti> tehre's always ubuntu.series, but I guess trying to sync only really makes sense for actual libraries where we are less likely to diverge again
<pitti> anyway, I was just curious
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> that patch is making upstream unhappy, they don't like us patching their code and introducing issues and bugs, I would prefer not to push that change in Debian as well
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> pitti, if you want to do an update in debian we could sync, libsoup2.4 is on that list ;-)
<pitti> queued
<seb128> danke!
<tjader> Hi. When I insert a SD disk or USB drive and try to open it via the unity launcher it tries to open the folder with the archive manager. How can I fix that?
<seb128> tjader, right click on a directory in nautilus, properties, open with, what is selected in that tab?
<tjader> seb128: it does not have that tab, but by right-clicking, open with, another application I was able to fix it
<tjader> thanks
<seb128> tjader, you're welcome
<dobey> seif: i forget; to fix a package in proposed (that's already in proposed but verification-failed), do i need to avoid bumping the 0ubuntu2 or should i bump it?
<dobey> damnit
<dobey> not seif
<dobey> seb128: ^^
<seb128> dobey, you can't use the same version twice, you have to bump the number
<dobey> ok
<seb128> but include both changelog entries on upload (i.e use -v)
<seb128> since the previous one didn't go to -updates
<mterry> seb128, btw, uploaded refreshed ltmain.sh patch in cairo.  works for me in precise
<seif> dobey, seb128
<seif> for some reason gtk in ubunut wont allow me to draw frames with borders
<seif> whats up with that
<seif> ?
<dobey> frames with borders?
<dobey> it works fine
<dobey> you mean the theme doesn't draw borders for your frames?
<seif> shadows
<seif> dobey, in gtk3
<dobey> seif: using which theme?
<seif> adwaita
<seif> ?
<dobey> seif: right, the GNOME 3 theme, and it probably doesn't draw the borders on frames
<Sweetshark> pitti: can libreoffice-3.4.4-0ubuntu1 be moved to oneiric now? the one launchpad issue has verification-done and it has 7 days in -proposed.
<pitti> Sweetshark: we just got a single piece of feedback for this large update; I'd rather get some more confirmations from Ubuntu (not just one from Kubunut)
<dobey> Sweetshark: i thought it was 7 days after verification-done :)
<dobey> pitti: can you accept ubuntuone-client into oneiric-proposed? there was a stupid mistake i feel stupid for not catching earlier :(
<pitti> dobey: will do soon (unless RAOF or Spammaps beat me to it)
<dobey> pitti: ok, thanks
<slangasek> hmm, the timezone picker seems to have regressed in precise
<slangasek> took me about 20 clicks to land on Chicago on the map :P
<AlanBell> slangasek: you should try it with orca and keyboard /o\
<AlanBell> or just keyboard, no mouse
<slangasek> AlanBell: I don't see how that could be any worse
<Sweetshark> pitti: well, the Kubuntu issue cant cause regressions in Ubuntu (libreoffice-kde is not installed in default Ubuntu), or do you mean a just a general "doesnt crash on startup"-verification?
<AlanBell> slangasek: it was hard in oneiric, I will try precise if there are changes in that area, basically it isn't a standard dropdown control and it doesn't really work with keyboard to select the city
<pitti> Sweetshark: yes, a smoketest
<slangasek> AlanBell: right, precise still doesn't have a dropdown; what has regressed in precise is that repeatedly clicking in a zone now no longer rotates through the set of related cities
<slangasek> I don't know how I managed to finally get 'Chicago', but it's not deterministic :P
<AlanBell> ooh, maybe it has improved then :)
<seb128> slangasek, AlanBell: what selector are you talking about? ubiquity? clock applet?
<slangasek> seb128: clock applet
<slangasek> well, s/applet/indicator/, I guess
<AlanBell> seb128: ubiquity
<slangasek> ah, then we're talking about two separate selectors at the moment, I guess
<AlanBell> I will give the clock applet a go, that isn't a dropdown widget either but looks like orca might have a better stab at it . . .
<slangasek> (planned to be merged this cycle, I think?)
<seb128> slangasek, it was I think, but that was before ev and mterry got busy on other things so dunno if that still stands
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> slangasek, can't you just type in the text entry for the location?
<mterry> slangasek, seb128: I believe ubiquity currently uses a small library that ev broke out last cycle.  indicator-datetime needs to use it too
<AlanBell> there are about 6 Londons in the world
<AlanBell> orca can't read the time and date applet selector very well, but it can be operated with the keyboard
<pitti> good night everyone!
<AlanBell> odd fake dropdown widgets really don't help matters for screen readers, it bypasses all the accessibilty stuff that is built into the standard widgets
<seb128> 'night pitti
<slangasek> seb128: "type in the text entry" - how am I supposed to know what it wants me to type?
<seb128> slangasek, well it says "Location:", just type a name?
<seb128> like Portland
<slangasek> seb128: the first time I typed 'Chicago', it popped up a little "error" icon; now it works
<seb128> weird, maybe the request timeouted or something
<slangasek> seb128: still, the primary widget presented here is the map, and the 'Location' field gives users no guidance; the map clearly needs to be fixed or dropped
<slangasek> bug #893197 filed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893197 in gnome-control-center "timezone map no longer allows reliable selection of the correct zone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893197
<AlanBell> gah, nothing works :( it can see the frames but both orca itself and ubiquity are inaccessible
<AlanBell> so much for testing precise :(
<seb128> slangasek, indicator-datetime didn't change since oneiric so that dialog is the same it was in oneiric
<seb128> slangasek, but I agree it could be better ;-)
<slangasek> seb128: it's possible that only US/Central has problems that I'm noticing; the last time I needed that timezone would've been Dallas in January
<seb128> slangasek, you are travelling? you didn't get prompted to change your location?
<slangasek> ... prompted?
<slangasek> no, I haven't been prompted
<slangasek> yes, I'm travelling
<seb128> bug #802384 should be fixed in precise :-(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 802384 in indicator-datetime "not getting prompted to change timezone via geoclue" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/802384
<kenvandine> indeed, it should
<seb128> slangasek, it should detect that your location is different from your tz and let you select the tz you are in
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<slangasek> seb128: do you mean active geolocation?
<seb128> kenvandine, meet slangasek, an unhappy user
<seb128> slangasek, meet kenvandine, the maintainer of datetime
<seb128> now you guys can sort it ;-)
<slangasek> :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<slangasek> seb128, kenvandine: does that mean bug #893197 should be assigned to indicator-datetime rather than g-c-c?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893197 in gnome-control-center "timezone map no longer allows reliable selection of the correct zone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893197
<seb128> slangasek, yes
<slangasek> ok
<seb128> slangasek, g-c-c only loads the datetime .so
<slangasek> reassigned then
<seb128> the code is in datetime
<seb128> thanks
<slangasek> kenvandine: am I misremembering that the datetime widget on the desktop used to allow you to click multiple times in the same location to rotate through the cities within that band?  Was that only in ubiquity?
<kenvandine> i don't think the datetime one did that
<slangasek> ok
<kenvandine> it is pretty hard to select chicago though
<slangasek> absurdly hard, given that clicking at various points in central time causes zones not under my cursor to be chosen instead
<slangasek> long term, is this supposed to be replaced with the tz selector from ubiquity?
<slangasek> ev has dealt with all of these issues in the installer before, and that one works pretty slick
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i know we've wanted a shared widget
<seb128> the issue is that the installer one is python code, that one is C, I think the idea was to use the datetime one
<seb128> but nothing prevent us to "port" the installer code to datetime
<slangasek> yes, I think that's what's needed here then
<seb128> ev and mterry were discussing using the same codebase before Oneiric, not sure which one that was though
 * slangasek doesn't either
<mterry> seb128, what's the question?
<slangasek> mterry: which code was planned to be used for a unified tz map widget
<seb128> mterry, what was the plan with indicator-datetime and ubiquity maps?
<seb128> mterry, slangasek says the datetime map widget makes it really hard to pick a location, which is an issue the ubiquity one doesn't have
<AlanBell> unless you are using orca, in which case both suck :)
<slangasek> seb128, kenvandine: as for geolocation, I'm on a plane, all bets are off :P
<mterry> seb128, slangasek: ev made libtimezonemap last cycle.  I believe ubiquity uses it, but indicator-datetime doesn't.  What needs to happen is that indicator-datetime gets ported to use it (simultaneously moving some of its features/fixes to that code into the library)
<slangasek> aha
<kenvandine> slangasek, ah... then i am sure that wouldn't work :)
<slangasek> mterry: ok, cool
<mterry> slangasek, what's the specific issue that's difficult with picking maps in indicator-datetime?
<slangasek> kenvandine: in general I don't get warm fuzzies about the idea of being prompted to update my TZ based on geolocation
<slangasek> mterry: please try to click on Chicago :)
 * mterry tries
<kenvandine> slangasek, it doesn't popup and prompt you
<kenvandine> it just adds a menu item to the indicator
<slangasek> oh
<kenvandine> to let you switch it
<slangasek> yeah, that seems fair
<kenvandine> :)
<slangasek> you have anticipated my curmudgeonly objections, well done ;)
<kenvandine> mterry, it is insanely hard to select chicago...
<rodrigo_> slangasek, you want it to change automatically?
<mterry> Still don't quite understand.  :-/
<rodrigo_> slangasek, or not changed at all?
<mterry> I was able to select it in both the map and the locations dialog.  Which one of those are we talking about?
<kenvandine> mterry, the map
 * AlanBell could select it on the map
<AlanBell> click just bottom left of the lakes
<kenvandine> it seems very close to others or something
<kenvandine> i  felt like i was holding my mouse still and between clicks it was changing
<kenvandine> between chicago and vincennes which are in different timezones
<mterry> kenvandine, ah!  you're talking about clicking on chicago, not the dropdown
<nerochiaro> just since I saw you people talking about the indicator datetime map: the location of Barcelona is way off on that map
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, vincennes in france?
<kenvandine> no :)
<AlanBell> it needs to zoom really
<rodrigo_> ah :)
<slangasek> rodrigo_: "not change at all" is my preference, I don't trust geolocation
<slangasek> not for something like this
<rodrigo_> slangasek, right, my preference also
<slangasek> AlanBell: it wouldn't need to zoom if it would just allow cycling through the cities in the band on multiple clicks (i.e., if it were the ubiquity one :)
<slangasek> mterry: yeah, it seems to be doing the old and broken "find the city that's geographically closest to where you clicked" heuristic
<slangasek> except even then, I'm not sure why it thinks Indiana is closer than Illinois :)
<slangasek> oh!  In fact, there appears to be a vertical offset for all of the cities
<slangasek> so something seems to be misaligned
<slangasek> fwiw
<slangasek> anyway, bug filed and my timezone has been set... I don't need to monopolize the channel further :)
<kenvandine> thanks slangasek
 * rodrigo_ out for a bit, bbl
 * AlanBell goes to look where chicago actually is
<AlanBell> London is positioned over edinburgh right now it seems
<AlanBell> slangasek: actually below the red dot is the shaft of the pin, which is sticking in the right place in the map7
<AlanBell> the dot isn't the city position itself
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> right; not very intuitive to me
<AlanBell> not really, I wouldn't have noticed it myself without trying it with compiz zoom
<nerochiaro> wow, completely easy to miss for anyone without perfect eyesight
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, really need to figure out scrollbar stuff this week
<chrisccoulson> oh, seb128, i looked at the shutdown on resume issue last week btw
<chrisccoulson> for me, it's definitely related to that extra battery, and i tracked down the kernel commit which fixes it :)
<chrisccoulson> so i don't know if other people have a separate issue
<chrisccoulson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/852406/comments/37
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 852406 in linux "Phantom battery appears after resume from suspend" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nice, thanks for tracking the kernel commit
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone
<bschaefer> bg
<bschaefer> opps
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi Robert! Do you have a few minutes to complete https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/lightdm/lang-chooser/+merge/78226 ? Martin has approved it after a few code improvements.
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, sure
<smspillaz> RAOF: poke
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Great. I'll be available here for possible follow-up questions.
<RAOF> smspillaz: Yo!
<smspillaz> RAOF: are there any known caveats with linking to libdrm ?
<RAOF> Not as far as I'm aware.
<smspillaz> cmake was being a bit weird so I'm just trying to link manually on the command line to see what I can get, but its failing bizzarely
<smspillaz> RAOF: using -ldrm and the implict search path from gcc
<RAOF> Got a pastebin, or some code?
<smspillaz> it looks like it actually finds libdrm.so but then just refuses to find any symbols in it
<smspillaz> yeah, sure, hang on
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, could you make an upstream merge proposal?  It should be good to go upstream now
<smspillaz> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/745454/
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Sure, I can do that. Upstream, is that lp:lightdm?
<smspillaz> RAOF: I'll get the code up somewhere, sec
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yup
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, what was the conclusion on /usr/share/language-tools/language-options?  Is that Ubuntu specific
<RAOF> smspillaz: Got an extern "C" {} around the include?
<smspillaz> ahh that might foil it
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Yes. That call won't be there when we get at 12.04. Martin wants it to be replaced by some AccountsService method.
<smspillaz> (I don't)
<RAOF> Name mangling!
<smspillaz> RAOF: for the record: lp:~smspillaz/compiz-core/compiz-core.test_vblank_waiter
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, is there something we can commit for upstream that is equivalent (and carry the change in a patch for Ubuntu?)
<smspillaz> RAOF: :( you're right
<smspillaz> and to think I spent 5 hours yesterday tearing through the cmake source to find out what was going on
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Actually it *can* be committed upstream - it won't break anything for non-Ubuntu users, since it falls back to 'locale -a' if the script isn't there.
<broder> i always felt like libraries should do the extern "C" {} bit themselves
<RAOF> They generally do.
<smspillaz> they generally should
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Guess it's up to you if you can accept a temporary solution upstream.
<smspillaz> except if you're xf86drm and use non standard include paths and all kinds of other voodoo
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yeah, I'll have a look.  My preference is to only have "standard" things upstream
<smspillaz> RAOF: of course, I could patch it upstream, but I imagine the response would be something like
<smspillaz> "C++ sucks"
<RAOF> I'm actually a bit surprised; a fair amount of mesa code is C++.
<smspillaz> I know
<smspillaz> RAOF: well, libdrm != mesa
<Sarvatt> you lmean like http://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/drm/commit/?id=cfee5218b17a2741e5519ed44091171e01f0dbb2 ?
<smspillaz> though its distributed under the same namespace
<smspillaz> Sarvatt: if only .... :(
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: thanks for sending the email to me. I'll get that to Rick. RAOF, at the end of the day could you send the auto-testing recap to me as well? thanks!
<Sarvatt> its in libdrm 2.4.27
<RAOF> Yeah, I was probably looking at an older checkout.
<Sarvatt> (in precise)
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: Certainly.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok. I wait with the upstream MP then.
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: thanks!
<bryceh> auto-testing?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, no, just do the MP, I can remove things from it and commit them.  So then you do a merge and have a smaller diff
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Aha, sure. Then I disconnect for a while, because I have Precise on a separate partition.
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, ok
<smspillaz> bryceh: if that was directed at me, then, yes, it was for auto-testing
<smspillaz> I'm trying to get the vblank code that vanvugt has done tested outside of an opengl implementation
<bryceh> smspillaz, ah
<smspillaz> the hilarious thing is going to be when everyone on DX runs nvidia and can't run this test
 * smspillaz slaps himself
<smspillaz> I need to stop using unsigned int for everyhting
<smspillaz> *everything
<RAOF> Doing some signed compares? :)
<RAOF> Bah.  Dear cmake: I really didn't change any files outside of test/.  Why are you rebuilding everything?
<desrt> RAOF: easybuild!
<RAOF> Bake!
 * RAOF wonders if Robert has that on highight :)
 * desrt wonders if robert_ancell has 'robert' on highlight
<desrt> oops.
<robert_ancell> desrt, I sure don't
<RAOF> Nice work :)
<desrt> robert_ancell: easy-build development looks stagnant since last time we talked about it
<desrt> is that an accurate reflection of reality or am i looking at the wrong project?
<robert_ancell> desrt, yes, been busy :(
<desrt> fair enough
<desrt> robert_ancell: i've been selling you to everyone i talk to
<robert_ancell> desrt, oh damn.  Now I need to deliver ;)
<desrt> robert_ancell: i did a recent talk at FSCONS about how to make a gnome application
<desrt> it was embarassingly difficult
<desrt> particularly setting up po/ and intltool
<robert_ancell> desrt, yeah, there's a mountain of crap to climb
<desrt> smspillaz: to sign or to unsign is one of the endless debates
<desrt> there are two schools of thought on the subject
<desrt> i think they're both wrong
<desrt> insofar as i don't think it's possible to come to *any* sane conclusion regarding what is essentially a completely broken system
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-22
<desrt> robert_ancell: i love that you use automake for easybuild :)
<robert_ancell> desrt, no, the latest version uses make to bootstrap itself
<desrt> so maybe i am looking at something oldschool
<desrt> revno: 119
<desrt> timestamp: Sat 2011-10-01 18:17:36 +1000
<desrt> message: Install a python script
<robert_ancell> fixed in 120 :)
<desrt> where is the latest rev?
 * desrt branched lp:easy-build
<robert_ancell> I'm 128 here, I need to tidy it up and push
<desrt> dude!
<desrt> laptops get stolen
<robert_ancell> that is correct, but the next push should be to lp:bake
<desrt> push early & often!
<desrt> still no better name, hm?
<robert_ancell> desrt, lp:~robert-ancell/easy-build/wip (don't know how stable it is)
<robert_ancell> desrt, I thought you liked bake?
<desrt> i like it more than easybuild :)
<desrt> i was pushing for something more distinct
<desrt> and i thought that ancell wasn't such a bad name :p
<robert_ancell> desrt, suggestions welcome
<robert_ancell> It has no intuitive meaning
<desrt> exactly
<desrt> that's a positive feature in my opinion
<robert_ancell> desrt, how is GMenu going?  Can we get it into gnome-games now?
<desrt> robert_ancell: i hope to land it this week
<desrt> mclasen has a working demo of gnome-shell integration already
<robert_ancell> desrt, cool.  Who is going to do the Unity patch?  I just want to wait until I'm sure the games can be visible in both shells
<desrt> robert_ancell: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621203
<ubot2> Gnome bug 621203 in general "GtkApplication support work" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> robert_ancell: i guess i'll probably do it eventually
<desrt> there's some other blocking stuff first, of course
<robert_ancell> desrt, with GMenu can an application detect if something is consuming it?
<robert_ancell> (and fallback if not)
<desrt> yes and no
<desrt> short answer: of course it can
<desrt> other short answer: but the API doesn't really make it easy, because you're not expected to deal with it that way
<robert_ancell> desrt, talking to phomes (gnome games maintainer) now about GMenu.  We'd like to use it asap, but we need a migration solution
<desrt> robert_ancell: i think what will happen is that there will be some sort of menu 'personality' module that gtk loads to decide what to do
<smspillaz> desrt: hah!
<smspillaz> (re: signing)
<TheMuso> desrt: Does the scope of GMenu allow for menu items that have dynamically changing/changeable icons? If so, is there a mechanism to set an alternative textual description for that meny item?
<desrt> TheMuso: no.  not presently.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<desrt> smspillaz: if i were to give some guidelines i'd say to use unsigned types for higher level things (like dbus APIs) and use signed integer types on C APIs with very early g_return_if_fail to check for positiveness and good docs
<smspillaz> nah, it was more like. I'm used to using unsigned int for return codes (X11), and I'm working with kernel stuff where 0 is success and - is fail
<smspillaz> also, this kernel API for handling vblank events is really ... dumb
<smspillaz> I'm really suprised it uses callbacks rather than just giving you an fd that it writes to whenever there's a vblank
<desrt> doesn't it sample the monotonic time at which the event occured and communicate that to userspace?
<desrt> uh?
<smspillaz> well rather, the callback isn't mandatory, its just that you have to register for a new vblank event every single time you get one
<desrt> non-signal callbacks from the kernel?
<smspillaz> so you pretty much have to use the callback
<smspillaz> desrt: its an ioctl which calls back into a user defined function
<desrt> please tell me this is something that only the nvidia driver does
<smspillaz> desrt: its libdrm
<desrt> i'm positively terrified that this was ever merged into the kernel
<smspillaz> but since you asked, its probably only the nvidia driver ;-) since I'm running an nvidia card and clearly if I used nouveau my GPU would have exploded by now
<smspillaz> even though it says I'm running nouveau
<smspillaz> but that's a minor detail ;-)
<desrt> callbacks into userspace frighten me
<desrt> signals included
<smspillaz> desrt: I mean, what its probably doing is that the library has some internal fd which it gets events on and then the actual userspace loaded libdrm calls back into a userdefined function
<smspillaz> I don't think the kernel is calling my code ;-)
<desrt> oh
<desrt> okay
<desrt> i'm less terrified, then!
<smspillaz> desrt: this system however, is annoying since libGL implement vsync by having a function that just blocks until a vsync, which is kind of what this module I'm testing wants
<desrt> THREADS!
<smspillaz> so now instead of that I'm doing this like, really awkward things with event handelr threads
<smspillaz> you got it :p
<smspillaz> desrt: what really disappoints me is that what was supposed to be one hour of writing tests for someone elses bugfix has turned into a 1 day hackathon with drm
<smspillaz> that's slightly typical of all the coding work I do sadly :(
<RAOF> smspillaz: How it works in X is that drmHandleEvent is added as the callback function on the drm fd.
 * desrt watches another compiz maintainer grow up and get annoyed
<smspillaz> desrt: of course, what infuriates me is that libdrm is yet another library that uses enum bitfields which you can't use in C++ unless you make a wrapper function and compile it as a C file :(
<smspillaz> desrt: oh, that happened a long time a go
<smspillaz> desrt: a LONNNNNNNNNNNNG time ago
<smspillaz> desrt: I had no childhood
<smspillaz> RAOF: right, although you need to use the callback to queue another vblank
<smspillaz> (event)
<RAOF> Indeed, because it's a one-shot affair.
<smspillaz> you could say I've had many affairs with the graphics stack
<desrt> *rimshot*
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi again, just submitted an upstream MP.
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, cool, thanks
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Can you apply a new upstream release in Ubuntu right now, so we can test it?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, not sure what you mean?
<robert_ancell> into precise?
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Yes.
<RAOF> You know one of the (many) nice things about C#?  out paramenters must be explicitly marked.  None of this GetTextExtent(width, height) magically altering the values of width and height.
<robert_ancell> yes, but not by today
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok.
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Do you have access to upload to oneiric-proposed?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yes
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: It would be great if you could merge the other branch then, so we can start the Oneiric SRU.
<BillyZ> I have a simple question, how do I bring up the classic desktop in ubuntu 11:10?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yeah, good point.  I'll merge the changes and upload to precise and we can test it there
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok, great.
<BillyZ> OK, I did something wrong or this is the wrong room.
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, ok, uploaded to precise
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Thanks! Even if I have tested that branch already, I'll do it again to be sure. So, disconnecting again...
<smspillaz> woohoo its working
<smspillaz> desrt: hellyeah
<smspillaz> THREAD
<smspillaz> S
<smspillaz> RAOF: https://code.launchpad.net/~smspillaz/compiz-core/compiz-core.fix_880707.2.test/+merge/82961 in case you're interested
<davidvip> hello all
<davidvip> i need some help to troubleshoot my video problem using intel-graphics
<davidvip> if i leave the machine running on long hours i might end up the entire desktop freeze and the display like this video i capture http://youtu.be/KxevkWbpWzM
<davidvip> thank u first
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: The amd64 build of 1.0.6-0ubuntu4 tested successfully.
<smspillaz> if you get a chance to coukd you run it? its plugins/composite/tests/compiz_paintscheduler_test
<smspillaz> oops
<TheMuso> Wow, notify-osd has a *lot* of tests.
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Heya pitti.
<didrocks> good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> a bit tired, but otherwise well; how is your flu?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it's getting better, but my daughter is ill now
<chrisccoulson> she has an ear infection too :(
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: argh
<pitti> hey didrocks!
<hrw> heh. unity/3d plays a game with me. game name is 'guess where your windows went' ;(
<glatzor> morning guys
<pitti> hey glatzor
<glatzor> mvo, apt_pkg.Acquire() seems to hate me ...
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<mvo> glatzor: its not very picky, it hates everyone ;)
<mvo> glatzor: what is the problem?
<glatzor> mvo,  I was working on separating the downloader/installer/cache modifier without using threads but it results in glibc segfaults
<glatzor> mvo http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/745631/
<glatzor> mvo, lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/separation
<glatzor> mvo, you can just run sudo ./aptd -td --replace and download a package
 * mvo gets the branch
<glatzor> "Warten auf Kopfzeile" seems to be a quite strange name for a package file :)
<mvo> glatzor: what do I need to do to crash it? install a pkg?
<mvo> aha
<mvo> apparently yes :)
<glatzor> mvo, you have to install a package which is not yet downloaded
<glatzor> mvo, I normally use the cw package
<mvo> glatzor: I use that too most of the time, or 2vcard. I need to find out what cw is actually doing ;)
<glatzor> mvo, it is a quite useful tool! you can send morse signals using your laptop speakers!
<mvo> lol
<mvo> awsome
<glatzor> mvo, imagine your airplane crashed and the only thing left is your laptop with - lucky guy - cw installed
<mvo> heh :)
<mvo> I have the crash, its deep in libapt it seems, I build a debug version quickly
<rodrigo__> morning
<mvo> glatzor: hm, hm, it crashes on various places, really odd
<mvo> glatzor: that looks like memory corruption, are two threads writing to the same resouce or something like this maybe?
<mvo> glatzor: the crash is consistenly in pkgAcquireArchive::Done, but it looks like on different spots there
<mvo> glatzor: hm, actually - it seems like its StoreFilename that is passed by reference, is python maybe releaseing this reference somewhere? let me look at the aptd code
<glatzor> mvo, threads aren't used by aptd - only by libapt
<mvo> glatzor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/745690/plain/ <- this will fix it, its rather silly, but the reference to the storefilename is kept in packagemanager and when that goes out of scope the reference breaks, I will propose a fix in libapt for this
<mvo> glatzor: but for now, this works
<glatzor> mvo, ah ok. so keep the pm alive by also moving it to the AptDownloader?
<glatzor> mvo, thanks
<glatzor> mvo, since you are going to touch libapt ... It would be nice to access the Acquire instance of UpdateLists
<glatzor> from within python-apt
<glatzor> mvo, who could I talk to about porting unity to packagekit?
<mvo> glatzor: the unity system indicator that talks about updates? ronoc iirc
<mvo> glatzor: I guess you would want to pass your own pkgAcquire object into ListUpdate, right?
<Sweetshark> pitti: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11456902#post11456902 and I ran some quick tests on my machine. enough verification?
<pitti> Sweetshark: yes, thanks for this; I moved it to -updates
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: FYI, I'm merging gtk+3.0 and also want to port the multi-arch-ification from 2.0
<seb128> oh, yeah you  \o/
<pitti> seb128: bit of a headache, but good otherwise, thanks! how are you?
<micahg> pitti: I thought we were requiring dev release uploads for SRUs
<glatzor> mvo, right I would like to use my own one
<seb128> I'm fine thanks, trying to wake up a bit earlier but I'm having a difficult time to readjust my sleep cycle, I'm on a go to bed late, sleep late cycle ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I just committed some stuff to Debian, too; now our delta is down to 7 patches and some extra symbols
<seb128> still quite some diff but that's getting better
<seb128> ideally we could go down to the appmenu and scrollbar patches?
<pitti> micahg: we do; you mean for LibO? that was discussed with cjwatson yesterday, we indeed need an urgent LibO upload to precise; should land in a week or so
<micahg> pitti: I don't understand why it wasn't uploaded there in the first place though
<pitti> not sure; Sweetshark, does it currently build in precise? there's been quite some java reorg in precise
<seb128> is there a point for the unstable serie upload out of making sure we don't forget to land the fix there?
<pitti> seb128: yes, there is: building against current library ABIs and toolchain
<didrocks> hey seb128, how are you?
<pitti> e. g. LibO now how depends on several NBS packages
<micahg> pitti: in fact, since we're keeping the dev release usable, it would seem to be more imperative to have SRUs like this in precise first (although this was the only shot for LibO since the next upload is for 3.5.0)
<seb128> pitti, sorry I was not speaking about pocket copy, but is there any need to block srus because the unstable update is a bit longer to come (i.e for GNOME we might track another serie)
<pitti> seb128: mostly as a matter of discipline and not forgetting about fixes
<seb128> ok, I've blocked a few srus because I'm on Oneiric still, I could do and test them but I can't test on precise yet
<seb128> it's not the end of the world but a bit annoying
<pitti> seb128: you can certainly test whether they build, and we can test packages in PPA for you :)
<pitti> and if it's just a patch, then "works in oneiric" + "builds in precise" is pretty safe IMHO
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I'm doing that, I hit a few toolchain difference bugs yesterday though where things were building on oneiric for me but not in precise after upload ;-)
<seb128> well anyway it's minor, it's about time I get a precise build environment anyway I think ;-)
<pitti> or upgrade, and get an oneiric VM or keep your netbook on oneiric?
 * pitti has an oneiric kvm now
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I will upgrade soon now
<pitti> kvm is quite nice anyway, as you can keep a clean install and do tests with -snapshot
<seb128> I'm pretty much done with Oneiric srus and testing
<baptistemm> hi there
<seb128> pitti, is kvm running unity-3d?
<pitti> seb128: ah, no
<pitti> that'd be the mini 10 then
<seb128> pitti, indeed ;-)
<pitti> or my wife's workstation :)
<seb128> baptistemm, hey, how are you? long time not seen!
<baptistemm> seb128: fine, I just went back from jdll where I seen didrocks and I said to myself, would be nice to stay here to have a look of what ubuntu is doing :)
<seb128> ;-)
<micahg> Sweetshark: BTW, another reason to do a precise upload now is to see if there is breakage w/the new toolchain in precise and get it fixed upstream for 3.5.0b0
<didrocks> baptistemm: \o/
<seb128> baptistemm, you are an happy fedora users nowadays right? ;-)
<baptistemm> seb128: actually not taht much
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. and you?
<seb128> quite good, thanks ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<seb128> rodrigo_, there?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you look at bug #876839 we have some unhappy users there that claim that proxy use is still broken in 11.10
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 876839 in gnome-control-center "Proxy GUI in 11.10 does not configure socks proxy for HTTP traffic" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876839
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, your ubuntu-system-services sru to fix the proxies also failed verification on one of the 2 bugs and didn't reach updates
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you try to check on that? it could be that they just didn't get the update because they don't use proposed and it never reach updates
<seb128> rodrigo_, would be nice to review the bug which failed verification and sort it
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks!
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, have the numbers for those 2 u-s-s bugs at hand?
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubuntu-system-service/0.1.26.1
<seb128> they are there ;-)
<seb128> the second one is the one which failed verification
<rodrigo_> ok, it sets the proxy in all files under /etc/apt
 * rodrigo_ looks for a fix
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks ;-)
<seb128> (oh, didrocks resumed merge request email spamming)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, last testing on the project, seems everything is ready for deployement
<seb128> didrocks, great to read ;-)
<didrocks> the new reject message is way more descriptive: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/unity-merger-test/foo10/+merge/82991
<didrocks> (the exit 1 in the job was done on purpose)
<seb128> didrocks, I kind of got used to the sdfnsdfjs commit text ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: come on, the last two ones have very real ones :)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<didrocks> oh weird, it's my user now posting the reject
<didrocks> not unity merger
<didrocks> what happened on the server? :/
 * ogra_ wonders if we'll ever manage to make g-s-d being the last and not the first app to be killed on logout
<seb128> ogra_, shouldn't matter if we manage to kick in plymouth or lightdm or something over the screen before closing the sesison
<ogra_> ah, yeah, thats indeed an option
<seb128> that's what was suggested at UDS I think
<ogra_> i was just rebooting after an upgrade and was wondering, i think thats happening since warty for me :)
<ogra_> and i'm actually wondering why that was never attacked as a papercut, i mean its really visible to everyone ,,,
<seb128> oh, to that I can reply: too much to do, not enough people
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra_> oh, i didnt realize papercuts are done by the desktop team
<ogra_> i thought that was a community patch effort
<seb128> it sort of was, it's not very active recently, we got a few patches for them but they were mostly raising issues and making some noise around them to get upstream or us to fix those
<seb128> for them->from them
<ogra_> ah, i saw some sessions on the UDS schedule, i thoguht it was still active
<seb128> they are speaking about refocussing a bit on it I think but in practice there was no push nor blog no anything around papercuts for some cycles
<ogra_> sad
<seb128> same story that bootspeed and others
<ogra_> yep
<broder> i got the impression that papercuts tended to get a lot of pushback from upstreams
<ogra_> well, we have a rolling bootspeed thing going on in arm
<seb128> small group of motivated people and lot of things to do, so the focus move from one subproject to the other one
<ogra_> which sometimes also helps non-arm :)
<ogra_> (like the dropping of initrd in precise)
<seb128> we don't manage to attract enough new people to get those projects rolling when the main driver are busy on another focus
<ogra_> but indeed thats not as good as having a big community looking into it
<ogra_> yeah, community requires leadership it seems
<Sweetshark> micahg: heh, the impact of something breaking because of a oneiric->precise toolchain update is linenoise vs. the changes between 3.4 and 3.5
<micahg> Sweetshark: indeed, but I would think the bulk of the code is still the same so a build of 3.4.x on precise would raise most of the issues you might find in 3.5.x
 * pitti reminds didrocks or seb128 to remind him about the meeting reminder
<seb128> pitti, oh, good reminding!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, it's meeting reminder day!
<didrocks> all this about remindingâ¦ ;)
 * pitti nags didrocks to review https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-quickly
<didrocks> I did that, isn't it?
 * didrocks opens again
<didrocks> hum, I changed the text description and click on approval yeasterday, I'm sure of it
<didrocks> seems that only refactoring the text is savedâ¦
<didrocks> putting as approved again then
<pitti> hm, click harder?
<pitti> didrocks: nice, thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: now?  :)
<pitti> didrocks: nope, still "pending approval" here
<didrocks> yw, thanks for the reminder of checking again
<didrocks> urgh
<pitti> didrocks: want me to try?
<didrocks> I clearly see "approved" there
<didrocks> pitti: yes please
<pitti> ah, seems it was just lagging, fine now
<didrocks> I changed the text and did what was needed
<didrocks> ok, seems to be quite laggy, maybe it timeouted without me noticing yesterday
<pitti> so, multi-arch gtk3 seems to behave
<pitti> don't want to upload to Debian yet to not break the testing migration, but I'll merge to svn head
<micahg> pitti: experimental?
<pitti> micahg: too lazy to create a new svn branch etc., and not urgent either
<micahg> heh
<zyga_> hi, is this bug known: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85681235/unity-window-title-ellipsis-transparency-bug.png
<zyga_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/893529
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893529 in unity "Window title ellipsis (when text does not fit) is oddly transparent" [Undecided,New]
<rodrigo_> have an appointment for a much needed haircut, so bbiab :)
<mvo> so in unity - if I use alt-f2 and type a command I very often get my previous command when pressing enter (and not waiting until unity has caught up). do other people see this too?
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, it's a known bug if you type too fast
<didrocks> mvo: mhr3_ was working on it
<seb128> mvo, bug #856205
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 856205 in unity "run the wrong command if enter is hit before the view is refreshed" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856205
<seb128> there is a merge request waiting for review
<seb128> kamstrup and mhr3_ should probably trade reviews for what they do or something ;-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: Im scared by the meeting reminder. Dont give in to the french Zealots!
<pitti> Sweetshark: FranÃ§aise ne sera jamais la langue officielle!
<seb128> oh que si
<didrocks> ce n'est qu'une question de tempsâ¦
<seb128> il suffit de lui laisser du temps ;-)
<ogra_>  /join #ubuntu-desktop-non-fr
<pitti> Je ne parlez-pas francais
<Sweetshark> pitti: das siehst du, was du angestellt hast.
<pitti> Sweetshark: ja, demnaechst muss ich noch Ungeziefer essen und Rotwein trinken
<Sweetshark> ;)
<seb128> kein german sprechen on das franzosisch irc!
 * pitti adds debian/patches/break-for-username-seb128.patch to his GTK merge
<seb128> pitti, EDONTCARE, I'm running Oneiric and trust our sru team :p
 * pitti uploads langpack-locales, removing fr_*
<ogra_> pitti, why username ? check for LANG :)
<zyga_> lol
<seb128> ok ok, you win, we keep the statusquo and keep using english (for this time)
<pitti> not every French dude makes me eat escargot :)
<seb128> (we will be back)
<zyga_> ogra_, ubuntu-p is for precision, shotgun precision
<ogra_> heh
 * pitti accepts the tie, hugs everyone, and goes back to work
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - how bad is it for me to add another work item to an already approved blueprint?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: that happens all the time, go ahead
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks :)
<pitti> mvo: can you please upload bug 882276 to precise, too? (i. e. a refresh)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 882276 in command-not-found "command-not-found includes packages removed from 11.10" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/882276
<pitti> rodrigo_: can you please upload the fix for bug 833397 to precise?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 833397 in gnome-settings-daemon "indicator power displayed twice on panel" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833397
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, didn't I already?
 * rodrigo_ checks
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, already uploaded afaics
<pitti> rodrigo_: the precise task is still open, wrong changelog then?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I think it's because of not using the -v, I thought I had closed it by hand
 * rodrigo_ closes it
<pitti> thanks
<mvo> pitti: I will do a new extraction run with the precise dataset now, thanks for accepting the SRU
<pitti> mvo: cheers
<hyperair> pitti: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/873787, did you really mean to upload the workaround to precise as well? you mentioned previously that it was fine to upload to -proposed only under the circumstances mentioned in the bug.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 873787 in banshee "Banshee does not start" [High,Confirmed]
<ogra_> hyperair, well, it would be nice if it worked in precise too :)
<pitti> hyperair: ah, right; sorry, I forgot about that when I wrote the comment, ignore me
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<Riddell> pitti: when is the meeting today?  your reminder doesn't remind me
<Riddell> also you forgot to include agateau
<hyperair> ogra_: under normal circumstances i would upload the patch to precise first, but this particular one deserves more testing and is just a hack to work around the bug until a better fix is found.
<pitti> Riddell: 16:30 UTC, but so far we don't have anything to discuss, i. e. so far there won't be a meeting
<pitti> Riddell: agateau> adding him to my mail alias and bouncing, thanks!
<dobey> hyperair: hrmm; you uploaded something to oneiric-proposed?
<dobey> indeed you did :-/
<dobey> not having upload rights, sucks
<hyperair> dobey: did you need something uploaded?
<hyperair> dobey: the upload was actually from some time back, stalled in the upload queue
<dobey> hyperair: i proposed a branch 17 hours ago... https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/oneiric/banshee/u1ms-idle-activate/+merge/82939
<hyperair> dobey: should i reupload with that?
<dobey> hyperair: that would be awesome if you could
<hyperair> dobey: alright
<dobey> hyperair: thanks!
<hyperair> dobey: is this fixed in precise?
<dobey> hyperair: i don't have upload privs there either, so no, but it is fixed in banshee master, so will be fixed with the next release/upload to precise
<seb128> pitti, what's the way again to make apport ignore "non official packages" when trying to report a bug?
<seb128> pitti, I'm trying to see if the hook in my local build is working but ubuntu-bug complains the package is not official
<seb128> ups
<seb128> pitti, ok, I reinstalled the official version and copy my hook manually over
<seb128> that did the trick
<seb128> chrisccoulson, mdeslaur: no cookie for you for writing a gnome-screensaver hook and not installing it ;-)
<dobey> is ubuntu-desktop usually so noisy?
<Sweetshark> LibreOffice 3.5 has just been codenamed "hazelnut syrup" ...
<seb128> dobey, "so"?
<mdeslaur> seb128: hey, it used to work
<mdeslaur> seb128: someone must have merged it into oblivion
<dobey> seb128: i guess there are a couple threads on it that have sort of incited plenty of replies :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, likely yes
<seb128> dobey, oh, the mailing list, yes it's not that active usually ;-)
<dobey> seb128: i was wondering if i should bother joining it, to be able to reply to a couple of those threads :)
<seb128> dobey, if you want sure, feel free, but no troll please, those are active enough without trolling ;-)
<dobey> lol, i don't troll on mailing lists. only on social networks, and blogs :)
<seb128> ;-)
<Sweetshark> dobey: shouldnt that be "we don't troll on mailing lists. only on social networks, and blogs :)"?
<seb128> rodrigo_, will you comment on that proxy bug I pointed earlier today? no need to fix the bug today but some users are getting angry so it would be nice to let them know somebody is working on their issue ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah sure, sorry
<rodrigo_> seb128, was looking at a fix
<seb128> rodrigo_, no worry, thanks ;-)
<pitti> seb128: APPORT_DISABLE_DISTRO_CHECK=1
<seb128> pitti, danke, I was looking for the thirdparty one that got dropped it seems ;-)
<seb128> pitti, then I greped the source for IGNORE_ since that's what APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES uses
<seb128> that was close but that not enough ;-)
<pitti> yay for consistent naming, sorry :/
<Laney> speaking of the proxy capplet, is it going to allow configuring of 'no proxy' hosts?
<pitti> seb128: the former is actually in man apport-bug
<seb128> pitti, no worry
<seb128> pitti, yes, I tried man and find only APPORT_IGNORE_OBSOLETE_PACKAGES there
<pitti> seb128: the other is undocumented, as I really don't want so many people to know about this :)
<seb128> Laney, isn't that the default?
<seb128> pitti, ok, fair enough ;-)
<Laney> seb128: no, to allow you to configure hosts which shouldn't go through the proxy
<seb128> Laney, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=658570
<ubot2> Gnome bug 658570 in Network "gnome-control-center doesn't allow to specify ignored hosts list." [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<seb128> that?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> the GNOME guys didn't reject the request but didn't update the bug recently, so I guess it will be fixed one day, when somebody has time for that upstream, which might not be this cycle :-(
<Laney> i looked at the bug it is duped to
<Laney> 'needs design'
 * ogra_ wonders if the brightness level not staying at what i adjusted over a reboot is arm specific or if others see that too
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin!
<seb128> ogra_, it's hardware specific but not arm specific rather
<pitti> hello GunnarHj
<ogra_> seb128, ok
<GunnarHj> pitti: Robert uploaded the lang-chooser fix in lightdm to Precise last night. Later on he will move most of it upstream. I prepared https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/oneiric/lightdm/lang-chooser/+merge/83031 for the SRU. Could you please merge it into oneiric-proposed? It includes a security fix that is already in -updates and -security.
<pitti> GunnarHj: I saw that your lightdm branch landed, congrats!
<seb128> ogra_, it happens on some videocard,drivers on intel,amd64 world as well
<GunnarHj> pitti: Thanks. :)
<ogra_> ah, good, i should probably once try the nvidia driver on the ac100 :)
<ogra_> might behave different
<hyperair> pitti: regarding dobey's oneiric-proposed fix, should i upload with -v2.2.1-1ubuntu1 and override the -1ubuntu2 present in oneiric-proposed with -1ubuntu3 to verify both bugfixes at the same time?
<pitti> hyperair: yes, that's fine
<hyperair> okay
<pitti> GunnarHj: uh, CVE fixes in an SRU? shoudln't this part go through -security?
<GunnarHj> pitti: It's already there.
<pitti> GunnarHj: oh, it is already; apparently you branched from oneiric final, not oneiric-security
<pitti> ok, the merge should notice that
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
<dobey> night pitti!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb24> no meeting today ?
 * desrt multiplies seb24 by 5â
<kenvandine> seb24, doesn't look like it
<MrChrisDruif> Meeting in 4 min?
<pitti> no agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-22, so skipping
<pitti> unless someone wants to bring sth. up now?
<seb128> pitti, somebody should really send a note to the ubuntu-desktop list about the UDS decision for meetings, it was not publicly communicated
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, ^
<seb128> we will keep having people asking every week otherwise ;-)
<mckitt1943> hello, can I use classic mode with 11.10
<desrt> seb128, seb24; so are you guys related, or what?
<desrt> mckitt1943: no.
<pitti> seb128: ah, yeah
<seb128> pitti, you might also want to consider Cc-ing ubuntu-desktop on the weekly reminders if those are calls for topic as well
<mckitt1943> desert bye bye ubuntu
<seb128> pitti, in case community contributors want also to add topics
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_, desrt, agateau: any topic from you? should we have a discussion/meeting now?
<seb128> desrt, no, we just share a common first name
<desrt> i sense that mckitt1943 was upset about something, but i can't quite figure out what it might be
<didrocks> nothing from my side in addition to the wiki
<kenvandine> pitti, nope
<rodrigo_> pitti: nothing from me
<seb128> no
<Riddell> Just a notice from me that I'm back and I'm working in UTC-4 so won't be around european mornings
<chrisccoulson> pitti, no, nothing from me either
<kenvandine> wb Riddell!
<Riddell> thanks ken :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, you said new zeitgeist landed?
<pitti> martin    6855  0.2  3.0 267840 116440 ?       Sl   14:45   0:30 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/zeitgeist-daemon
<pitti> didrocks: that's oneiric from a few hours ago
<didrocks> pitti: yeah
<didrocks> pitti: oneiric?
<pitti> sorry, precise
<chrisccoulson> i'm currently trying to figure out how to generate breakpad symbols from gtk and glib
<chrisccoulson> fun :)
<didrocks> pitti: hum, really?
<didrocks> pitti: you mean, I didn't dput?
 * didrocks checks
<mterry> nothing from me, just in +1-maint land
<pitti>  zeitgeist |    0.8.2-1 |       oneiric | source, all
<pitti>  zeitgeist |    0.8.2-1 |       precise | source, all
<pitti> didrocks: ^
<pitti> didrocks: apparently not?
<pitti> mterry: how does your +1 work go?
<pitti> mterry: learning new stuff about how soyuz and the archive work?
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, it should be at a dput away, fixing it :)
<pitti> didrocks: yay, merci
<mterry> pitti, not so much that side of things, though a little bit about what the archive team does.  mostly just ftbfs trudging  :)
<mterry> and lots of patches sent to debian
<pitti> mterry: and NBS apparently
<mterry> yar
<didrocks> Package has already been uploaded to ubuntu on upload.ubuntu.com
<didrocks> hum, weird
<pitti> didrocks: remember, you need the medium-sized stamp for those :)
<didrocks> "medium-sized stamp"? :-)
<pitti> as in the ones you put on letters and postcards
<pitti> nevermind me
<didrocks> pitti: we don't use size, we use colors for the different velocity in France :)
<pitti> didrocks: still no upload, hm
<didrocks> ah, got a rejection email
<seb128> didrocks, stop uploading to oneiric (random guess ;-)
<seb128> (happened to me several times this week)
<didrocks> no, seems to be even better
<didrocks> one sec
<didrocks> zeitgeist (0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1) ubuntu; urgency=low
<didrocks> interesting
<pitti> hah
<didrocks> not sure how it ends up there
<didrocks> "but but, I want to push to ubuntu"
<didrocks> ok, should be better now
<didrocks> and I forgot the -v with that
 * didrocks should go to bed
<mterry> seb128, sounds like someone needs to upgrade
<seb128> mterry, what did I do? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, you said you accidentally uploaded to oneiric several times  :)
 * kenvandine is very impressed with my boot time in precise
<kenvandine> 12s :)
<seb128> mterry, oh, right
<seb128> kenvandine, how much was it in oneiric?
 * kenvandine looks
<seb128> kenvandine, can you check on bug #893062 btw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893062 in evolution "evolution fails to communicate with gnome-keyring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893062
<kenvandine> my last bootchart from oneiric was 43s
<mterry> kenvandine, nice
<seb128> hum
<seb128> doesn't make sense, or your oneiric was really buggy ;-)
<kenvandine> ok, looked over my last few oneiric ones and had one 27s
<kenvandine> seb128, i can take a look
<seb128> kenvandine, still seems buggy, we didn't change GNOME or Unity yet
<seb128> but good that it improved ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, well, unping about the keyring issue, I though you uploaded your sru which changes the order of keyrings read but you didn't
<kenvandine> i updated 2 weeks ago, and just now i realized how blazing fast boot was
<pitti> well, we got a new kernel
<seb128> pitti, well, still that seems like a bug that got fixed rather than precise improvements ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, i did to precise
<pitti> seb128: yes, absolutely
<kenvandine> i see plymouth for about 2s before lightdm
<kenvandine> smoking!
<seb128> kenvandine, the user is using oneiric, the timing seemed suspicious with your sru but the sru didn't get through so that's not it ;-)
<kenvandine> ok
 * kenvandine goes back to gtkspell :)
 * kenvandine is adding gir and vapi gen 
<seb128> kenvandine, jbicha: hey, did you guys discuss the sync request Jeremy did for some of the indicator packages and how that play with the full source vcs derived from the upstream one?
<kenvandine> no....
<seb128> kenvandine, well, jbicha requested sync requests for some of the indicator sources and they got acked and done over the w.e
<seb128> not sure how that fit with the vcs though
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> i think i would need to manually merge that
<pitti> the best is probably to commit the diff from the syncs to the bzr
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm mentioning it because that needs to be sorted
<pitti> you can grab it from LP
<kenvandine> yeah, i will
<pitti> that's what I did with dee
<seb128> kenvandine, it was indicator-messages libindicate libindicator
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> kenvandine, there is bug #891926 as well
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 891926 in indicator-session "Sync indicator-session 0.3.7.1-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891926
<seb128> I did catch this one and asked to get the vcs story sorted
<seb128> but I didn't see the other ones before they got acked and synced
<jbicha> yes, sorry about the indicator syncing
<jbicha> perhaps Debian should use debian1 naming like http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/software-center.html
<seb128> pitti, btw didn't you say good night around the meeting time? stop working! ;-)
<pitti> I will soon
<kenvandine> hehe
<pitti> came back after supermarket in case we had a meeting
<kenvandine> jbicha, no worries, i'll get them cleaned up in VCS
<pitti> and now I'm stuck in a huge backlog of process-removals
<seb128> pitti, classic mistake ;-)
<pitti> but I'll just ^C it soon, time for dinner
<seb128> never come back when you managed to step away :p
<seb128> jbicha, kenvandine: should I sync indicator-messages as well then?
<kenvandine> it did get synced, didn't it?
<jbicha> it's a bit confusing having Ubuntu being the upstream packager instead of Debian...
<seb128> kenvandine, no, I did catch this one and put the bug in incomplete
<jbicha> I don't think the tools really work the opposite direction as well
<pitti> -1debian1 is a bit silly IMHO; as soon as its in Debian we should use -0ubuntu1
<seb128> jbicha, right, we had that discussion before, there is no real "master packager"
<kenvandine> there is a mail in precise-changes for it
<pitti> instead of tramping on Debian's namespace
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry, indicator-session
<seb128> bug #891926
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 891926 in indicator-session "Sync indicator-session 0.3.7.1-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/891926
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm getting confused ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, ah... yeah go ahead
<kenvandine> i'll manually merge that too
 * kenvandine steps away for lunch
<jbicha> kenvandine: are the indicators something that we should be packaging in Debian experimental (via pkg-ayatana) at least then?
<kenvandine> jbicha, i have helped out a bit
 * kenvandine has to run though... bbiab
<jbicha> I was impressed that software-center just got a current experimental release in Debian, I haven't tried it though
<pitti> so long, have a nice evening!
<seb128> jbicha, well there is no real difference with GNOME on how we maintain indicators compared to debian
<seb128> none of our custom vcs handle fine direct syncs
<seb128> lp:ubuntu... with the autoimporters do
<seb128> but the ubuntu-desktop vcses or the dx ones don't, if we sync we need somebody to manually merge every sync done
<seb128> 'night pitti
<jbicha> seb128: I'm not understanding what you're saying
<seb128> jbicha, when using a non-standard vcs nothing is commiting the syncs for you
<seb128> the autoimporter does update lp:ubuntu/<source>
<seb128> but nothing will update ~ubuntu-desktop/<source>/ubuntu
<seb128> so syncs are a bit problematic for desktop sources which have a team vcs
<seb128> (that's one reason why we drop ~ubuntu-desktop/<source>/ubuntu for sources which are mostly in sync with debian)
<seb128> the dx vcs-es are yet another case since they are full sure but derivated from the upstream source for those project (so a bzr merge <rev> works)
<jbicha> right, and we wouldn't need a desktop branch if we can stay in sync with Debian
<seb128> right
<jbicha> the dx branches scare me; I've just gotten too comfortable with quilt & the desktop branches :)
<seb128> but in practice most people are busy enough to not want to spend the extra efforts maintaing the source twice
<seb128> dx ones are great, you can basically bzr merge -c <rev> lp:source
<seb128> to backport a commit
<seb128> without having to use quilt or anything ;-)
<jbicha> maybe it's better, I just don't understand it yet because I've never done it
<seb128> it's better but works only when upstream is in bzr
<seb128> or when you have an import of upstream code in bzr
<jasoncwarner_> hey bryceh RAOF robert_ancell and TheMuso meeting time!! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-11-22
<RAOF> Good morning all :)
 * bryceh waves
<jasoncwarner_> great. lets get this thing started.
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh RAOF X update?
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, today working on an xdiagnose update, mostly clarifying dialog wording and such
<bryceh> yesterday got 5 systems updated to precise, ran into various bugs including #876499 which seems to be bad - broken nvidia on fresh installs
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh:  only fresh installs? upgrades are fine?
<bryceh> also worked through several other non-X bugs like bug #458482 and bug #893700 and others.  Think fixes for those are now int he works
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 458482 in usb-creator "usb drives imaged with usb-creator fail to boot on some systems" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458482
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 893700 in debootstrap "pbuilder create of a precise image fails on perl-modules / perl conflict" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/893700
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, I did one upgrade and ran into one bug where if I had extras enabled it failed; didn't look to see if that's reported already
<bryceh> also ran into a slew of problems trying to get the installer to format the drives the way I wanted, it kept crashing.  But then just let it format them the way it wanted and all was good.
<bryceh> anyway, good news is other than the nvidia bug, X seems solid.
<bryceh> and I think the nvidia bug might be an error in ubiquity.
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, on topic of multimonitor
<RAOF> I think that nvidia dislikes something about the 3.2 kernel, too.  Or possibly something in UEFI/efifb/3.2.  It mostly fails to actually display the xserver.
<bryceh> I've associated a slew of bug #'s to the blueprint (probably more than is reasonable; we will likely want to prune it down as w ego forward)
<bryceh> I've also started work on the refactoring for libxrandr-utils.  Still waiting on my FDO registration but got the first few bits pulled into a local git tree
<bryceh> next step there is I'm going to implement a test suite; seems there are two choices in X
<bryceh> 1. 'check', used by libxcb
<bryceh> 2. 'glib' used by xserver and a couple other things
<RAOF> glib is also used by bits of unity, but I've played with check before.
<bryceh> looks like #2 is the more "official" but since it depends on gtk looks like it needs additional packaging magic to make it condutional
<bryceh> figure I can set up glib and if we need to move to check later it's not a big deal
<RAOF> Yeah, that should be reasonably easy.
<bryceh> as to bugs in general for precise,  they're light right now as would be expected
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: I'll check out the BP for multi-monitor later. Do you think the BP covers the scope of the problem for precise?
<bryceh> just 3 open, including the nvidia one I mentioned above.   That's really the only serious one.
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, I do.  I think the bulk of the "problem" that people are complaining loudly about right now are more to do with Unity usability problems, and I gather the Unity guys are working on those issues
<bryceh> we have them linked to the blueprint so I plan to keep an eye on them, and raise priority of issues that seem not to be getting neough attention.
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: ok, thanks.
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: anything else?
<jasoncwarner_> if not, TheMuso you are up :)
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, yes a couple things
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh: go for it
<bryceh> in linking multimonitor bugs, I also found a lot of config tool issues (or even just regular X problems), that have been open for some time, so even aside from Unity we have plenty of work to be done to improve things.
<bryceh> the other thing, beyond X, did some work on launchpad stakeholder issues last week.  Anyone with issues they'd like flagged for escalation just let me know.
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, ok done.
<TheMuso> Ok, started to make good progress on pollishing accessibility for precise.
<TheMuso> Indicator work is well under way, mostly in making sure that the most common indicators, and even some of the less common ones, have accessible descriptions, either by filing bugs, or writing patches directly, i.e brasero.
<TheMuso> Still trying to catch Ted to talk about dbusmenu changes for accessible descriptions for network strength etc in the network manager menu. I could start on the work, but there is a coule of ways that the code could be implemented, and I need to know what Ted preferrs. tedg, if you're around, can we please have a chat about this?
<TheMuso> The other big bug bear I am tackling atm is getting notifications fully accessible again. I'm mostly there, and am at the point where I may need to change something on the Orca side as well. I hope to have that nailed today and propose a branch for review by EOD.
<jasoncwarner_> thanks TheMuso
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: anything else you wanted to note?
<TheMuso> Only that I hope we make a decision re GTK version soon, as the latest GTK in the 3.3 series has some a11y updates I would like us to have.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: ah, ok....
<jasoncwarner_> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> np
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell and RAOF want to update everyone on your testing efforts this week? RAOF you can go first then hand off to robert_ancell :)
<RAOF> I've been looking at the distro-priority unity bugs, picked https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-distro-priority/+bug/807921, and wrote a test & fix for it.  And a couple of extra tests of associated functionality while I was down there.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 807921 in unity "Unity tooltips doesn't show Hebrew characters" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<RAOF> That problem was not actually a rendering problem, so neither were the tests, but today I'm going to be writing some rendering tests for the problem.  That'll make it easy to write further automated rendering tests, 'cause there'll be infrastructure there for starting a window, running your test, and pulling data from it.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what are you using to do the rendering?
<RAOF> Currently the running X server + GL stack.
<bryceh> RAOF, would xserver 1.11 make any difference?  (And what's the merge status on that?)
<RAOF> That's acceptable for a âmake checkâ run on a developer's system, but is obviously insufficient for headless testing.  It's not clear to me that we require headless testing, though.  If we do, it shouldn't be too hard to wrap this up in a standalone dummy server + software rendered GL.
<RAOF> bryceh: xserver 1.11 wouldn't make any difference, although some of the patches going into 1.12 around making running the xserver with dummy input and video drivers might.  The merge status is as last week - it builds, but my forward-ported XI 2.1 patches break grab behaviour, so need to be fixed.
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: anything else or should we give robert_ancell a chance?
<RAOF> I think we can give Robert a chance now :)
<TheMuso> heh
<robert_ancell> so, I'm currently extending the test X server code used in LightDM to support the messaging required for Compiz.  It's now in lp:xig.  I'm currently in the slow, no end in sight process of filling the gaps and the easy part of adding lots of tests comes after (was the same with lightdm).  I hope to have one window placement test working by the end of the day.  smspillaz is working from the other direction adding uni
<robert_ancell> t tests.
<robert_ancell> (eof)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, can you elaborate briefly on what the goals are with xig?
<robert_ancell> bryceh, to have an X server implementation which we can analyse all the state of the X server synchronously and easily generate clients/events to test an X client (specifically compiz)
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Now that I think of it, have I pointed you at xcb?  Having xcb-generated server-side protocol handling code is something various people in X have talked about for a while; it might make your job easier?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I've used xcb as a client, but not as a server
<TheMuso> /c/c
<bryceh> robert_ancell, huh, interesting thanks.
<RAOF> IIRC the xcb libs are generated from the protocol description.  If writing server-side protocol handling is becoming a chore, doing the same for the server implementation will probably work :)
<robert_ancell> bryceh, RAOF, there's also some overlap here with xvfb/its replacement.  Not 100% sure which direction I should have tackled this from but the current technique is working
<bryceh> robert_ancell, I take it this is in an effort to improve automated testing of compiz?
<robert_ancell> bryceh, yes
<robert_ancell> bryceh, in particular to test window placement, stacking and client/wm race conditions
<bryceh> robert_ancell, you may be right about some overlap with xvfb, but probably depends ultimately on what type of functionality you're going to be testing
<RAOF> xvfb should be replaced with the full xserver + dummy input & video drivers; there are some patches in 1.12 that make this easier.  I don't think users of xvfb will need to care about this, though.
<robert_ancell> it's the race conditions that will get hard with a black box X server
<RAOF> It also sounds like xig offers significantly more opportunity to test.
<RAOF> Right.
<bryceh> wonder if xig ought to have a testsuite itself?  ;-) ;-)
<RAOF> It should probably have XTS run against it?
<jasoncwarner_> thanks, robert_ancell and RAOF
<jasoncwarner_> anyone want to comment on anything else?
<jasoncwarner_> ok, sounds like it! thanks everyone
<bryceh> thanks!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, bryceh, the one thing that really stands out after reading the X spec is 8 bit keycodes?  Like really what were you thinking?
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<bryceh> robert_ancell, heh no kidding!  pita
<RAOF> I think people were thinking it was 1970 :P
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Oh btw, I've just managed to catch Ted, so things are sorted re dbusmenu work, once I knock over notifications a11y I'll be getting started on that ASAP.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, but most things are 16/32 bit.  And there's a whole lot of useless padding everywhere to make the base messages 28 words
<jasoncwarner_> awesome, thanks TheMuso
<robert_ancell> as the rest of it goes it's not a bad protocol.  Needs a next revision that brings in the basic extensions.  A lot of chatter when clients connect
<RAOF> Yeah, the 8bit keycode is really awkward and baked in hard.  We've run against that limit for a while, and I don't think there's a plan for how to make it work.
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah I gather the "fix" there is to do a point rev of the X11 protocol, which I gather is too intimidating for folks to undertake.
<RAOF> There's always http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/X12
<bryceh> RAOF, when I looked into it a couple years back it sounded like it was unfixable really, short of changing the X11 protocol
<robert_ancell> bryceh, yeah, that's been my outside impression of X development.  People are too scared to make changes, e.g. everyone shudders when an extension is suggested, probably because they all look like they've been desigend by committees
<bryceh> and even there, then you have to wait on client support and so on, so it's not an easy thing to fix.  Sad.
<RAOF> Some protocol extensions are relatively easy.
<RAOF> Witness pointer barriers.
<bryceh> robert_ancell, in fact for a while there they were actively killing off (unused/unmaintained) extensions left and right
<RAOF> But that was a really pretty trivial protocol.
<robert_ancell> bryceh, the thing is, is there much that accesses X directly nowadays?  You only have to update a few toolkits right
<bryceh> RAOF, btw a handful of the multimonitor bugs I ran across sound like awkward corner cases for pointer barriers.  I might ping you about them later on.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Mostly that's true.  You might be surprised how many apps decide to grab an X connection and frob some bits, though.
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah for the basic cases where you can just rebuild the affected things.  I suppose closed source apps and network X connections and such could be a problem.  *shrug*
<bryceh> I've forgotten the specific details; it sounded pretty definitively dire back when I looked at the status a couple years ago
<RAOF> Well, you'd need a server that speaks both X11 and X12.  It'd be a pretty massive transition.
<bryceh> I suspect there's also an underlying thought that wayland offers an opportunity to solve it by just bypassing X (and multi-vendor protocol approval committees or whatever) entirely.
<RAOF> Right.  My feeling of the vibe is that Kristian also wants writing a wayland extension to be cheap and ubiquitous, and then the extensions that prove themselves useful get folded back in.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I like that strategy
<RAOF> It's got its own dangers, but I think it'll make people hate the windowing system less.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, bryceh, why is min-keycode not 0?
 * RAOF shrugs
<RAOF> Some things just are, you know :)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, good question; seems to be pretty hard-coded into x-server.  a literal '0' is probably reserved as an error code.  I think the number 8 may come into play because there are 8 modifier keys.
<robert_ancell> bryceh, the spec says it "can't be less than 8".  Modifiers sound like a good reason..
<bryceh> robert_ancell, yeah it's like in the first paragraph of the keyboard section.  Very definitive.  But no explanation why.  In x code it's all just #define MIN_KEYCODE 8 all over the place :-)
<bryceh> like raof says, it probably made sense back in 1970 before they had invented non-english computer users.
<leo_BH_ubuntu> hi everybody
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-23
<RAOF> Hm.  That's not a test, but it is a nice demonstration of how the nvidia drivers can fail :)
<TheMuso> heh
<robert_ancell> RAOF, um, is xinerama undocumented?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Xinerama is basically server-internal; it wouldn't surprise me to learn that it's undocumented.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, I found out they were going to document it but gave up in the end now its obsolete
<robert_ancell> it's pretty simple though
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Xinerama = 1 screen with xinerama virtual screens right?
<robert_ancell> and XRANDR = n screens each with n virtual screens (or monitors in GDK language)
<RAOF> Not really; there's still only one protocol screen in XRandR.
<RAOF> Xinerama is still around for the multi-GPU case - you have a single protocol screen and rendering etc gets duplicated across all physical devices.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so to use Xinerama/XRANDR you get rid of the multiple screen stuff in the connect message?  i.e. there can only be :0, no :0.0, 0.1...
<RAOF> You won't get :0.0 :0.1, etc out of an XRandR setup.
<RAOF> I'm less certain about a Xinerama setup.  Maybe you will?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, looking at the protocol I don't think you can
<RAOF> However, if you're only interested in compiz then you don't need to care; Xinerama implies software rendering.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, well, we will need tests for compiz with xinerama, with randr to check it handles these cases correctly
<RAOF> I guess there are two questions here - the Xinerama hints, which are still used with randr, and the Xinerama span-a-desktop-across-multiple-gpus thing.
<RAOF> The latter you shouldn't need to care about; Unity just won't load there because GL doesn't work.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, that's the rendering side, it's not exposed on the protocol how the rendering is actually done
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I'm going to look at how hard it will be to fake that :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, it's just one /dev device right?
<RAOF> Um, I've lost context.
<RAOF> What's just one /dev device?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, to support direct rendering I just have to intercept the client trying to open a file in /dev right?
<RAOF> Yes, that'd be right.
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<pitti> TheMuso: did you happen to try multi-arch-ification of the at-spi packages? any problems in GTK for this?
<TheMuso> pitti: There doesn't seem to be any problem so far with my testing.
<pitti> oh, you did, just saw it on -changes@; nice!
<pitti> TheMuso: I haven't uploaded GTK to Debian yet, I want to wait until the current one goes to testing
<TheMuso> Right.
<pitti> then merging or even syncing sohuld be eaier
<pitti> easier
<TheMuso> Yep.
<pitti> jbicha: hey Jeremy
<pitti> jbicha: do you have a particular attachment to meta-gnome3, i. e. do you want to merge it?
<pitti> otherwise I'll do it now, as it's uninstallable due to libgail-3-common going away
<pitti> jbicha: (the hamster-applet diff can go away now, I think)
<jbicha> pitti: you're welcome to do the merge if you like :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: congratulations for landing the unity tarmac setup!
<didrocks> pitti: heh, thanks :)
<didrocks> pitti: now, dx has to fix make check as make check in unity is failing :)
<didrocks> but all others 14 components seems to pass
<pitti> nice
<pitti> didrocks: does that merger actually enforce writing tests for new code
<pitti> ?
<didrocks> pitti: not yet, but that will be a tarmac plugin I plan to write (for now, let's have the basic working), that will be fairly trivial
<didrocks> pitti: basically, I'll write a plugin forcing linking to a bug, and having new tests
<didrocks> pitti: see the "Future improvments" section
<pitti> didrocks: "fairly trivial" sounds like an understatement, though :)
<pitti> well, there are certainly many commits which don't need changing the tests
<pitti> a whole MP should certainly at least touch it, of course, unless it's a kind of "doc cleanup" (where you have that override tag)
<pitti> but we also had lots of "change the design" FFEs/changes which can't be covered by tests
<pitti> (grid layout, icons, colors, etc.)
<pitti> so maybe something like "if the MP changes N lines of actual code (.cpp), test suite must at least change by N/5 lines" or similar heuristics?
<pitti> ah, no; design changes are implemented in code, too
<pitti> didrocks: but anyway, for now it's probably more a socially enforced thing :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert, how are you?
<pitti> robert_ancell: so you landed Gunnar's language selector lightdm changes in precise?
<pitti> robert_ancell: there's https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/oneiric/lightdm/lang-chooser/+merge/83031 for oneiric, I wondered how you would like to handle this
<pitti> robert_ancell: should I do the review/merge, do you want to, do you think we should let this mature in precise for a bit?
<didrocks> pitti: sorry, was merging some branch
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I still want to do the heuristic of "N line of changes, M lignes of tests"
<didrocks> pitti: with the override tag, but reporting the result somewhere to prevent abuses
<mvo> pitti: silly question, but who can set priorities for a blueprint? it seems like I can't even though I'm the approver https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/consumer-p-software-center-enhancements
<mvo> (this one is a example :)
<pitti> mvo: I'm not sure, ~ubuntu-drivers perhaps?
<pitti> at least that _should_ be the team which can
 * mvo looks
<pitti> mvo: try again now?
<pitti> mvo: I added you
<mvo> \o/
<mvo> thanks, I can now!
 * mvo hugs pitti
<pitti> mvo: SUPAPOWAHS!
 * pitti hugs mvo back
<mvo> http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-returns7/sr-poster2.jpg
<didrocks> waow, so much power for mvo :)
<pitti> *shrug* he could always upload something to precise which will silently click the buttons in my browser for him :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm curious, if there is a promotion in main for adding a build-dep to a package, but then, the binary packages are not supposed to be installed anywhere, should I still need to put in a seed like supported? or the fact that it's a build-dep of a package in main is enough to not shown in component-mismatched?
<pitti> the powers of being root on millions of machines
<didrocks> yeah, that's frightening :)
<pitti> didrocks: those packages should explicitly _not_ be seeded
<micahg> pitti: there was a drive to empty that team ( no pun intended )
<pitti> didrocks: indeed, main is closed under depends, recommends, and build-depends
<didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks! :)
<pitti> micahg: I thought we wanted to make the purpose of it more explicit, i. e. use it for planning (blueprints mainly)
<pitti> in the past it had a whole lot of other privs, like bug targetting etc, but that either already went a way, or is meant to be
<micahg> pitti: i'm not sure of all the details, but uds-organizers is a member of drivers so it seems that's a part of it
<pitti> micahg: ah, that could be indeed
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<pitti> seb128: please ignore the current retracer crash; flaw in my new client-side duplication logic, have the fix ready now
<pitti> seb128: it -- OMG! -- detected an actual duplicate
<pitti> (the previous logic assumed that they would not be actually uploaded)
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> working again now
<glatzor> a morning seb128 pitti mvo rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi glatzor
<rodrigo_> and seb128
<didrocks> hey seb128
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<seb128> hey glatzor didrocks rodrigo_
<seb128> hey mvo pitti
<mvo> hey seb128
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, mvo :)
<mvo> hello rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> good morning
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how is everybody doing today?
<chrisccoulson> good, i think :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, quite good thanks ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, congrats on the dx landing infrastructure work
<seb128> looks great by reading your detailed email
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the email btw, nice to see people giving details about what they are doing ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I think details was needed, despite the length of it :)
<didrocks> seb128: and thanks! :)
<glatzor> pitti, python-packagekit, libpackagekit-glib2-14 and gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 need to go through the full MIR process again?
<glatzor> pitti, I would like to see that the session indicator is ported to PackageKit
<seb128> glatzor, what's the issue with the current code? is the aptdaemon interface it's using going to be dropped?
<glatzor> pitti, aptdaemon doesn't provide the "show me if there are updates" method natively. So they made a kind of hack by simulating a system upgrade after each (!) finished transaction
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> glatzor, well, knowing dx it will probably take until after feature freeze for them to work bug fixes or that sort of cleanups
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what part of that log is a lol one? ;-) (I was not really joking for dx)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i thought you were joking. aren't we meant to be fixing that this cycle? (ie, not breaking everything and then waiting until after feature freeze to fix everything)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, their code is hackish but sort of work
<seb128> we said we wouldn't let them land broken code yes
<seb128> but knowing them I doubt they will rework code which "works" before feature freeze
<seb128> though I'm happy to be proven wrong ;-)
<glatzor> seb128, pitti by design aptdaemon was a solution which did not provide any "query" methods since we did all of those in the client application
<glatzor> seb128, pitti but the packagekit dbus interface has got the UpdatesChanged signal to notify clients when it is a good time to query for updates. since I implemented the pk interface this was a low hanging fruit
<seb128> glatzor, can you open a bug about that against indicator-session?
<seb128> glatzor, we will get assigned and triaged
<seb128> but I can't promise that dx will fix it soon
<seb128> they tend to try to land their features first and look at bugs fixing after feature freeze by experience
<pitti> glatzor: if those are just new binaries, no MIR necessary
<glatzor> pitti, packagekit moved to universe - perhaps since it isn't used by kubuntu anymore
<glatzor> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportPackagekit
<pitti> glatzor: right, the existing MIR is still valid
<pitti> we just need somethign that pulls it back in, i. e. I figure a dependency
<glatzor> pitti, thanks. fine.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, it's really bad that this is considered news: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/firefox-8-finally-lands-in-ubuntu-11-10/ :(
<rodrigo_> hmm, any python expert -> doesn't python have sethostname? I can't find it in any module
<pitti> rodrigo__: hm, according to http://bugs.python.org/issue10866 it was added in February
<rodrigo__> pitti, ok, guess I was finding outdated pages
<pitti> but it doesn't seem to be in the release yet
<rodrigo__> ok :(
<pitti> rodrigo__: subprocess.call(['hostname', '...']) ?
<rodrigo__> yeah
<mvo> rodrigo__: http://paste.ubuntu.com/746995/plain/ <- this will work too
<rodrigo__> mvo, right, thanks!
<mvo> I love ctypes, its a bit like a gun with no safety catch, but very useful at times
<rodrigo__> mvo, :)
<rodrigo__> lunch time, bbl
<seb128> Sweetshark, hi, is bug #749986 a "known issue" for you? do you know if it's a theme issue or unity issue or gtk issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 749986 in libreoffice "Resizing LO window from bottom right brings up pop-up and undesirable effects" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749986
<seb128> it seems it has to do with the grips added to gtk and the theme from the comment
<seb128> seems also the sort of bug we should fix in this cycle
<seb128> Sweetshark, seems its not wm dependent, likely libreoffice is trying to do handle the gtk widgets itself and doing it wrongly
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<pitti> seb128: what did you do?
<ogra_> gymnastics :)
<seb128> pitti, me? nothing. you, "apport-request-retrace" \o/
<pitti> aah ;)
<seb128> pitti, there is small potential confidentiality issue in doing things that way though, not sure if that's concrete enough to be an issue though
<seb128> pitti, i.e that will add debug retracing to a public bug without triager verifications right?
<pitti> seb128: right, if the master bug gets public and teh dupe has confidential data in the stack trace
<seb128> ok
<Sweetshark> seb128: cant reproduce here with fluxbox and libreoffice-gtk installed
<Sweetshark> seb128: so I wouldnt rule out unity there.
<seb128> Sweetshark, it happens under gnome-shell or unity-2d
<seb128> Sweetshark, did you try clicking on the triangle inside the libreoffice dialog? i.e not exactly in the corner itself
<Sweetshark> seb128: heh, there is no such triangle on fluxbox.
<seb128> Sweetshark, that has nothing to do with fluxbox
<seb128> though it has to do with the gtk theme
<seb128> do you use the ubuntu gtk theme under fluxbox?
 * Sweetshark logs into unity.
<Sweetshark> seb128: I can reproduce it with unity and default theming.
<seb128> it happens the same way under unity-2d or gnome-shell
<seb128> so it's not unity
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep, I didnt hit close enough to the corner. I can reproduce with unity2d, xfwm4 and fluxbox too
<seb128> Sweetshark, great ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, note that added those grips to gtk2 is an Ubuntu patch
<Sweetshark> seb128: also reproducable without ubuntu/debian patches on libreoffice-master (pre-3.5)
<Sweetshark> seb128: ah, so nobody else noticed because we tried something extra special again? ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, right
<seb128> Sweetshark, well that feature is in gtk3, we just backported it to gtk2
<Sweetshark> seb128: ah, thats nice to know to raise interest in it upstream. Thanks!
<seb128> Sweetshark, yw
<didrocks> Sweetshark: hey, I think you should discuss with seif or mhr3 about libroffice zeitgeist datasource integration
<Sweetshark> didrocks: woha! under which stone did we hide that action item ;)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: I think you should just boostrap the discussion
<didrocks> Sweetshark: we will have some datasources for gedit and totem already
<Sweetshark> didrocks: but sure, if it gets stuff going ...
<didrocks> Sweetshark: I think for libro, it's just a question giving guidance to the zg team :)
 * Sweetshark notes a todo
<didrocks> thanks Sweetshark :)
<seif> didrocks, i could work on libreoffice too
<didrocks> I'm sure Sweetshark will help you on that! :)
<pitti> good night everyone!
<pitti> didrocks: hah, new zeitgeist finally uploaded \o/
<seif> pitti, u know what rocks about it
<didrocks> pitti: good night pitti! Yeah, I shot it this time so that it's uploaded
<didrocks> pitti: 3 strikes, always the 3rd works :)
<seif> its faster, less memory and starts up nicely
<pitti> seif: killall python?
<pitti> seif: yeah, that's why I pestered didrocks about uploading it yesterday already :)
<seif> pitti, well we have one python process remaining
<pitti> can't wait to try it
<seif> but it depends on Mikkel
<didrocks> pitti: I have the impression that the long delay to close was due to zg as well
<didrocks> pitti: my session shutdown is way faster now
<didrocks> seb128: FYI ^
<pitti> oh, nice! I never had that, my machine just takes ages to actually power off (or doesn't at all)
<didrocks> (well, for a week already, as I installed it the day i uploaded it the first time)
<pitti> aaanyway, really off now, cu tomorrow!
<didrocks> well, s/I uploaded/I first tried to uploadâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: see you :)
<seb128> didrocks, nice
<Sweetshark> seif: lets chat about it tommorrow, gotta go to the gym now ...
 * rodrigo__ eod's, later all
<seb128> rodrigo__, 'night, btw can you reply on that proxy bug tomorrow
<seb128> ?
<seb128> (just mentioning it now while I think about it)
<rodrigo__> seb128, I already commented iirc
<rodrigo__> I'm working on a fix in the branch where I'm doing the systemd interfacesa
<rodrigo__> seb128, but anyway, have to go now, bbl :)
<seb128> rodrigo__, see you!
<didrocks> see you rodrigo__
<seb128> rodrigo__, ok, we can discuss it tomorrow ;-)
<mterry> Who do I bug about problems with the wiki?   A page just got deleted when I tried to edit it...  I'd like to see if there's a backup somewhere
<seb128> mterry, what page was that?
<seb128> mterry, you should try the is channel I guess (not sure how it's named)
<mterry> seb128, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging
<mterry> it's gone!
 * kenvandine heads out for a doctor's appointment, be back in a couple hours
<seb128> mterry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging?action=info
<seb128> mterry, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging?action=recall&rev=13
<seb128> mterry, you can at least do that
<nook> Is it possible that the global menu of Unity allways show the menu items? I dont want to hover the menu to see the items... That makes me crazy :(
<mterry> nook, fyi you can also hold alt to see them
<nook> Ok thanks, that helps to find the right way with the cursor... But no way to show allways the items :(
<seb128> ok, precise hates me it seems
<seb128> hey mterry, is there any chance you could look at the shotwell ftbfs there? ;-)
<seb128> nook, do you use the menus that much? you can try to uninstall indicator-appmenu if you don't like menus to be exported
<nook> i like the global menu... i only want to see the items all the time^^
<mterry> seb128, thought shotwell was building...
<seb128> mterry, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/0.11.6-0ubuntu1
<mterry> seb128, stop breaking things!
<seb128> mterry, well I just uploaded a new version that doesn't change anything in the build system, I blame precise moving under my feet!
<kenvandine> seb128, and we kept telling you the upgrade to precise was smooth :)
<seb128> mterry, but but but, you told me that you would do desktop work if that was build issues! ;-)
<mterry> :)
<mterry> seb128, I'll look at it in a bit
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> well I did a first step to precise today, I set up the sources for it and grabed cdbs and a few other things
<seb128> tomorrow I might do a partial upgrade of desktop stuff ;-)
<seb128> I'm always scared of updating to the new xorg or kernel :p
<mterry> seb128, so cautious!  take a page from pitti's book  :)
<kenvandine> i used do-release-upgrade
<kenvandine> nice and smooth :)
<seb128> those brave men
<mterry> seb128, higher versions means they're better!  :)
<seb128> jumping in unstable like that
<kenvandine> mterry, that is what i keep hearing :)
<seb128> you can't understand, I come from Debian where dist-upgrading to unstable means something :p
<seb128> but maybe the world changed during those 10 years
<mterry> :)
<TheMuso> I did a fresh install of precise, as I still keep my Oneiric install around just in case something happens to precise. But since installing precise, I haven't had any major dramas.
<mterry> seb128, remember, this is just dist-upgrading into testing
<seb128> mterry, not sure that's any better than unstable, testing is where when something breaks it takes a week to get it fixed ;-)
<seb128> but yeah, gotcha, I'm going to update tomorrow
<mterry> seb128, don't worry, us +1ers are on the case!
<seb128> if something breaks you will keep hearing me daily until it's fixed!
<seb128> you can ask chrisccoulson, I can do "is it fixed yet" poking every hour during a whole UDS (or almost that ;-)
 * mterry blocks seb128
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> mterry, just remember not to buy seb128 a beer in budapest!
<seb128> :-(
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> why so much hating!
<chrisccoulson> :P
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your twitter description say you are an happy man, not a hater :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> it's a lie!
<seb128> yeah, I noticed, I got fooled again it seems!
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> one day I will stop trusting what is written on the internet
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw not wanting to bother you with work but I think tb notifications behave weirdly for me
<seb128> waiting to get some extra emails to say, I usually read the summaries in the bubble and not the title but I think the title mentioned some thousand new emails received when I had like 5 new bug emails
<seb128> is the title showing the box count rather than the unread count?
<chrisccoulson> not sure about that :)
<mterry> So how did the Chuck meme start?
<chrisccoulson> ask jono :)
<chrisccoulson> wow, i was just watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pghA1XUaxxU
<chrisccoulson> pretty incredible!
<seb128> indeed
<TheMuso> Yeah, I heard about that in the news the other day, but thats the first footage I've seen.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can't believe that the pilot actually walked away from that
<chrisccoulson> he's one lucky dude!
<TheMuso> Hell yeah.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-24
<psusi> what happened to alt-f2?  was it disabled in oneiric?
<dobey> no; it brings up the dash here to run things
<psusi> so you can't just run arbitrary commands anymore?
<dobey> does the dash not come up with a text field that says "Run a command..." in it when you press alt+f2?
<psusi> I think it said that, but it doesn't seem to actually take a command.. it seems like it's just letting you enter a partial app name to search for
<dobey> psusi: try to run "ubuntu-bug unity" in it :)
<psusi> but I'm in gnome-shell now and alt-f2 does nothing there
<dobey> oh, i don't know if it works in gnome-shell or not
<psusi> it's supposed to
<psusi> it used to ;)
<psusi> and by supposed to, I mean the gnome documentation says it does ;)
<jbicha> psusi: bug 856884
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 856884 in unity "Unity sets the wrong metacity keyboard shortcut defaults" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856884
<psusi> is compiz being used anymore?  gnome-shell is its own wm based on mutter right?  and unity uses metacity now right?
<dobey> unity uses compiz
<dobey> unity-2d is using metacity though i think
<dobey> as does the gnome 3 fallback session
<psusi> I thought unity was originally using compiz and then was rewritten to clutter or mutter?  or was it the other way around?
<dobey> no; unity has always used compiz. it used to use clutter to do some of the widgets, but now uses nux for that
<RAOF> No, psusi is right.  Unity was originally a mutter plugin, back in the 10.10(?) days.
<dobey> oh, right
<RAOF> The first unity release was a mutter plugin, and it wasn't very good :)
<dobey> well, sort of right; wrong ordering :)
<psusi> hrm... ok, so it's using compiz... so I should still be able to find that compiz config manager thing I found once and configure the widgets layer and use screenlets?
 * psusi is looking for a proper replacement for the old gnome cpufreq, cpu temp, fan speed, etc thingies
<dobey> i wouldn't necessarily recommend poking about in ccsm, though
<dobey> but theoretically, yes you could
<psusi> what about gnome-shell?  is it compiz based too?
<dobey> no, gnome-shell is its own wm
<dobey> based on mutter
<psusi> yea, the shell and wm are in one process, but it's... yea... based on mutter, ok...
 * psusi is getting annoyed.. each of gnome2, gnome3, and unity have things I like... but they also each have their down sides.... must.. get... perfect... desktop...
<dobey> i need a new desk too. this cheap one has been bowed a bit for a long time now. and the thin veneer to make it look like maple is kind of crappy. and the keyboard tray isn't tall enough to leave it slid underneath the desk and type on without being out in the open
 * RAOF needs a second tiny outdoor table to extend my standing desk across the full width of the desk.
<dobey> heh
<dobey> maybe oak or something would be a good replacement for this crappy fiberboard though. could probably re-use the legs, if i can get some sort of fastener for them
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> dentist, bbl
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> back
<pitti> didrocks: bonjour
<pitti> didrocks: care to unbreak precise? :-)
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti :)
<pitti> didrocks: how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks. Still some cough, but it's almost almost almost over, fortunatly :)
<didrocks> and you?
<pitti> wow, that was a tough one
<pitti> I'm quite fine
<pitti> my arm hurt yesterday after 2 hours of practicing defence against sticks/bats in Taekwondo, but feeling alright again :)
<pitti> didrocks: about unbreaking precise, do you know what happened to python-zeitgeist?
<pitti> it's uninstallable right now due to that
<pitti> or, do we need it at all? I thought it was vala now
<didrocks> pitti: did I really break precise? ok. Hum, normally python-zg is there
<didrocks> pitti: it's for the datasources in python and other python facility
<pitti>  LANG= apt-cache show python-zeitgeist
<pitti> N: Can't select versions from package 'python-zeitgeist' as it is purely virtual
<pitti> N: No packages found
<didrocks> let me recheck
<pitti> $ asrc zeitgeist | grep Binary
<pitti> Binary: zeitgeist, zeitgeist-core, python-zeitgeist
<pitti> sorry, that's my alias for apt-cache showsrc
<pitti> but it seems it's not actually built or so
<didrocks> Package: python-zeitgeist
<didrocks> Architecture: all
<didrocks> in debian/control
<pitti> amd64 only builds zeitgeist-core
<didrocks> and it installs usr/lib
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1/+build/2947957 builds p-zeitgeist
<pitti> oh, I bet it's in NEW or so
<pitti> now, make https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+queue?queue_state=0 not time out..
 * didrocks retries
<didrocks> retries
<didrocks> retries :)
<pitti> nope, not in NEW
<pitti> q info zeitgeist -> 0 total
<didrocks> so yeah, zg-core is arch:any and dep on python-zg which is arch:all
<didrocks> pitti: it's not a new one
<didrocks> was there already
 * pitti scratches head
<didrocks> where is p-zg, where are you? :)
<pitti> python-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
<micahg> python-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
<pitti> that's what cocoplum claims
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/i386/python-zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1
<pitti> rmadison has no result
 * didrocks tries rmadison
<pitti> oh, it does now
<pitti> very weird
<didrocks> $ rmadison python-zeitgeistpython-zeitgeist | 0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1 |       precise | all
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> and so, on amd64, your zg-core doesn't find the arch:all p-zg?
<pitti> I got about 20 failed CD build mails that it's not installable
<pitti> and my dist-upgrade this morning failed as well
<didrocks> waow
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<pitti> apt-get update again, still not there :/
<pitti> hey mvo
<didrocks> it's mvo's fault! :)
<didrocks> hey mvo
<mvo> hey pi
<pitti> W. T. F.
<mvo> hey pitti even :)
<pitti> hey mvo, wie gehts?
<didrocks> pitti: it's just published, do we have timeline stats?
<mvo> hey didrocks - not my fault!
<pitti> glatzor: hallo
<didrocks> mvo: ok, let's say it's not! :)
<mvo> pitti: good! but woken up early again, I really want to have a day where I can sleep *loonnng* (like 8:30 ;)
<pitti> mvo: early? it's 9:30..
<didrocks> pitti: so, if you apt-get install p-zg, it tells that it's a virtual package?
<pitti> yes, and apt-cache show -> not there
<didrocks> waow
<mvo> pitti: well, I up since before 7:00, just now came to my desk
<pitti> didrocks: does it work for you?
<didrocks> pitti: trying, I have the locally installed version there
<pitti> apt-cache policy python-zeitgeist should tell you
<pitti> $ wget -O- -q http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2| bzgrep '^Package: python-zeitgeist'
<pitti> $
<pitti> it's not just me
<pitti> same for i386
<pitti> -> #u-desktop
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I only see my locally installed version
<didrocks> through apt-cache policy after a cache refresh
<didrocks> where is p-zg hiding? it's been built, it's on launchpadâ¦
<glatzor> morning pitti and mvo!
<didrocks> pitti: hum:
<didrocks> No summary available for python-zeitgeist in ubuntu precise.
<didrocks> No description available for python-zeitgeist in ubuntu precise.
<didrocks> on launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/0.8.99~alpha1-1ubuntu1
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, didrocks
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> lut didrocks, oui, et toi?
<didrocks> seb128: encore un peu de toux, mais presque fini cette fois :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> reading this mint kicking ubuntu on distrowatch news and comments
<seb128> it's somewhat entertaining
<seb128> typical comment: "I am one of those that defected from Ubuntu to Mint earlier this year. I made an honest effort to use Unity â for three months â but the productivity hit was too big. I am a developer and Unity really, really hurts my daily workflow."
<rodrigo_> salut seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm fine, and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> it's weird that people do the "I don't like the default desktop I switch distro", rather than just apt-get installing kde or xfce or gnome-shell
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, indeed :D
<rodrigo_> it's much more work to switch distro than installing a few packages
<didrocks> it's because they "feel hurt"
<didrocks> it's more a passional thing than rational
<rodrigo_> yes
<smspillaz> distrowatch is still a thing ?
<seb128> didrocks, that comment doesn't sound like passional, the guy tried unity for 3 months and then switched distro
<didrocks> seb128: I was commenting about your "weird that people do the "I don't like the default desktop I switch distro", rather than just apt-get installing kde or xfce or gnome-shell"
<seb128> didrocks, there is for sure quite of that gaming effect jcastro mentionned but some of those comments seem rational ones that give an honest try to unity, it didn't work for them so they get the next logical step which seems to be "change distro"
<didrocks> seb128: indeed, exactly what I'm telling there
<seb128> didrocks, well I agree with that you say, but it seems there is a group of users who don't get hurt or has no real feeling, just doesn't get used to unity and yet switch distro for whatever reason
<seb128> I wonder if some people don't realize they can switch desktop or variants without reinstalling
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, one doesn't prevent the other, "as the default experience on this distro doesn't fit my expectations, let's try to get another default", that's my interpretation, I'm maybe wrong
<xclaesse> seb128, will Presice keep totem 3.0 and Empathy 3.2 because of clutter dep on new versions in the end?
<seb128> didrocks, I've read some blogs comments where users said "I've enough of Ubuntu, I dropped it and install Xubuntu", like they reinstalled from the CD over...
<didrocks> seb128: I'm sure that if we provide another respin for gnome-shell, maybe more people will still use ubuntu
<didrocks> as it's "a default"
<seb128> didrocks, I've also read user downgrading from 11.04 to 10.10 to get "gnome-panel back"
<didrocks> well, we all know that won't last for long :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I wonder if we should somewhat do a better job at explaining that you can switch desktops without reinstalling if i.e you want to try xfce
<seb128> didrocks, right, especially than gnome-panel is in 11.04 on the CD...
<didrocks> seb128: I agree not quite sure how we can make that better (than just shipping another spin), people really don't get the "it's all the same repo"
<didrocks> evertime, I have to reexplain it in various events
<seb128> would be nice if jbicha and ricotz would lead a gnome-shell respin
<broder> i think that's a branding thing - the flavors are branded as more or less disjoint products
<seb128> I will try to push them to do that once we get the extra desktop set
<seb128> xclaesse, totem will stay on a clutterless version for this cycle yes, not sure about empathy
<xclaesse> :(
<xclaesse> seb128, be prepared that empathy 3.4 will depend on clutter too
<seb128> xclaesse, kenvandine was looking at upgrading, video calls are not as important than video playing so it might be fine to have them broken for a part of the users
<broder> seb128: have you guys looked into if llvmpipe is good enough to back up a clutter-based totem?
<seb128> xclaesse, yeah, ken talked with sjoerd about it
<xclaesse> seb128, is that the long term solution? keep old versions of the world?
<xclaesse> or is that just because of LTS?
<seb128> broder, I don't doubt it will "get there", it's just a risky change for the LTS
<xclaesse> I see, ok :)
<broder> that makes sense
<seb128> xclaesse, it's because of the LTS
<seb128> well totem 3.2 was not working at all on non-gl hardware
<seb128> that's the sort of thing we want to avoid in the LTS
<seb128> it's getting better but the fact that nobody upstream noticed before 3.2 clearly show that everybody in GNOME is running gl capable video and the fallback cases get no testing
<seb128> not sure also that anyone in GNOME is testing clutter on armel for example
<xclaesse> givent that gnome-shell itself require gl...
<seb128> so I wouldn't be surprise if that has issues as well
<seb128> well anyway we don't want to make video playing use it for the lts
<seb128> so next cycle for totem
<xclaesse> ok, makes sense tbh
<bigon> pitti: why did you reenable kerneloops?
<bigon> the project seems dead
<pitti> apparently the kernel team is still interested in it
<bigon> ah, mmmh
<bigon> I was planning to ask for the removal of task-desktop dependency against it in debian
<bigon> but I guess I'll wait
<bigon> pitti: "kernel team" as the ubuntu kernel team or the kernel team as linus ?
<mvo> pitti: did something in dbus change? I see e.g. software-center still on the bus, even when its terminated already. in oneiric it used to stop listing it when the app closed
<glatzor> pitti, is there already a mapping of locale names and human readable names available in the default install which also provides translations: en -> English -> Englisch
<pitti> bigon: I meant the ubuntu kernel team; but if the upstream project is dead, we might just as well remove it indeed; I'm not familiar with it at all
<pitti> mvo: we haven't had dbus changes in ages really
<pitti> glatzor: in two steps
<pitti> glatzor: first, get the English language name from LC_IDENTIFICATION with nl_langinfo
<pitti> gchar *language_en = nl_langinfo (_NL_IDENTIFICATION_LANGUAGE);
<rodrigo_> mvo, working on u-s-s, no idea why I'm getting a 'dbus global name not defined' on this code:
<rodrigo_> import dbus
<rodrigo_> system_bus = dbus.SystemBus()
<pitti> glatzor: second, translate it using the iso-codes translations
<pitti> dgettext ("iso_639_3", language_en)
<rodrigo_> mvo, and python-dbus is installed, any idea what I might be missing?
<glatzor> pitti, great, thanks
<pitti> >>> import dbus
<pitti> >>> dbus.SystemBus()
<pitti> <dbus._dbus.SystemBus (system) at 0x7f6629eeee90>
<pitti> rodrigo_: hm, works fine here
<mvo> rodrigo_: does python -c 'import dbus' for you?
<pitti> rodrigo_: if that stopped working, a _lot_ of stuff would suddenly break
<bigon> pitti: yeah kerneloops.org is dead
<rodrigo_> yeah, just fails when running the daemon
<rodrigo_> mvo, it does
<mvo> rodrigo_: aha, so its failing just in the auto-start context ? or when running the daemon manually too?
<rodrigo_> mvo, when running the daemon manually
<rodrigo_> 'org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.NameError: Traceback (most recent call last):\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/dbus/service.py", line 702, in _message_cb\n    retval = candidate_method(self, *args, **keywords)\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/UbuntuSystemService/systemd.py", line 52, in SetHostname\n    user_interaction):\n  File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/UbuntuSystemService/utils.py", line 5, in authWithPolic
<rodrigo_> yKit\n    def authWithPolicyKit(sender, connection, priv, interactive=0):\nNameError: global name \'dbus\' is not defined\n'
 * rodrigo_ is lost
<mvo> rodrigo_: could you push your branch so that I can try to reproduce please?
<rodrigo_> mvo, lp:~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces <- just run the daemon manually, and run SetHostname from d-feet
<rodrigo_> mvo, I've built and installed the package, rather than running it from the branch
<mvo> rodrigo_: trying now on precise, oneiric gives me a different error
<rodrigo_> mvo, no, same error :(
<mvo> please still commit my diff :)
<rodrigo_> it doesn't fail on the other sources, which are run first
<mvo> let me try on precise now
<mvo> right
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://launchpad.net/bugs/876839 is the bug I mentioned yesterday btw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 876839 in gnome-control-center "Proxy GUI in 11.10 does not configure socks proxy for HTTP traffic" [Low,Confirmed]
<rodrigo_> mvo, comiitted, tested and same error :D
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah ok, I thought you talked about the other u-s-s bug
<rodrigo_> seb128, adding a comment now
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm not sure if that the same bug you tried to fix in the sru or another one
<mvo> rodrigo_: did you push it? I'm still at r64
<rodrigo_> mvo, ah, no
<broder> looking through the lintian tags which are unique to ubuntu's packages, there seem to be a lot of instances of package-contains-broken-symlink from gnome apps to /usr/share/help-langpack/... or /usr/share/gnome/help-langpack
<rodrigo_> mvo, pushed now
<broder> i assume that's the way it's supposed to work?
<mvo> thx
<seb128> broder, yes
<seb128> broder, they stop being broken when you install the langpacks
<broder> seb128: but there are no dependencies forcing that?
<seb128> broder, no, what would be the point to split translations if we forced you to install them all?
<seb128> broder, usually people just install the locales they use
<rodrigo_> mvo, oh, just found out I had another u-s-s daemon running
<rodrigo_> mvo, that should be the problem
<broder> seb128: oh, i see. i didn't notice that it contained symlinks for all of the languages
<mvo> rodrigo_: heh, ok :)
<broder> seb128: does it make sense then to come up with some way to filter out broken symlinks in /usr/share/help and /usr/share/gnome-help?
<seb128> broder, I guess it would if those warnings confuse some people yes
<seb128> that was not raised until now but I see how it can be confusing
<broder> seb128: we weren't publishing the results of lintian on all of our packages until now :)
<seb128> good point indeed ;-)
<broder> seb128: i eventually want to publish a report on lintian-errors-in-ubuntu-but-not-debian, but it'll take me some time to set it up
<broder> in the mean time, those specific symlink errors are...21829 out of 157523 ubuntu-specific lintian tags
<broder> so they're an easy target :)
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, just pushed another fix, and setting the hostname and static hostname works, so if you can start reviewing it, the only thing missing is some of the dbus methods
<rodrigo_> mvo, which I'll keep working on until I propose the branch
<rodrigo_> which btw, leads me to a question
<rodrigo_> systemd uses /etc/machine-info to store the pretty host and icon names for this computer
<rodrigo_> but I don't have that, what does ubuntu use instead of that, if any?
<pitti> rodrigo_: do you have an example how this looks like?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I can create one from the code, 1 min
<pitti> the standard one is `hostname` or `hostname -f` AFAIK
<rodrigo_> well, that's for the hostname given to the machine by DNS, for instance
<rodrigo_> then there's the static hostname, which is what there is in /etc/hostname
<pitti> right, /etc/hostname is a Debianism, and only for setting the host name during boot
<pitti> DNS might change it
<rodrigo_> pitti, http://0pointer.de/public/systemd-man/machine-info.html
<rodrigo_> so it seems to be a systemdism :)
<pitti> ah, I don't think we have an equivalent
<pitti> the installer forces the host name to be actually a valid DNS name
<rodrigo_> so can we use /etc/machine-info also then?
<pitti> rodrigo_: nothign reads that
<rodrigo_> the pretty hostname is just for showing it in the info panel
<mvo> rodrigo_: thanks rodrigo_, I will wait with the review until its ready
<rodrigo_> pitti, well, my new service in u-s-s will read it, the problem is nothing writes to that
<pitti> rodrigo_: i. e. it should be shown in lightdm greeter, DAAP shares in banshee/rhythmbox, sent through Avahi/DNS, etc.
<rodrigo_> so it will always be empty
<pitti> otherwise it doesn't make much sense to create it
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> I'll leave those methods unimplemented then
<rodrigo_> for the pretty host name and the icon
<pitti> seems fine; they can just be empty stubs, or return a "not supported" value if that's possible
<rodrigo_> I'll leave them do nothing :)
<rodrigo_> ok, so just a couple methods in the locale interface, and we're set :)
<didrocks> pitti: please be aware of agateau's comment on bug #877358, not sure how you want to handle it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877358 in qt-at-spi "QtAccessibility causes crashes in several applications" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877358
<seb128> pitti, can you join #debian-gnome?
<seb128> pitti, Josselin is having issues with the pygobject transition and is talking to adding an epoch and other fun things
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you?
<ricotz> seb128, do you know the ibus package?`
<ricotz> seb128, i am great, thank you, how are you?
<seb128> well I know about ibus but not really about specifics
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> do you have any issue with ibus?
<ricotz> especially the appindicator patch
<seb128> yes, what about it?
<ricotz> it drop the set_name to ibus-ui-gtk of the status-icon
<ricotz> and i was hoping there is a way to pass this though to the indicator-fallback
<ricotz> this breaks the ability to handle status-icons conditionally by their names
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: if you're about can you give me a shout later please
<ricotz> seb128, i am getting requests again patching gnome-shell to workaround this
<seb128> ricotz, can't we just patch gnome-shell to use whatever name ibus get without the set_name?
<seb128> ricotz, ted would be a better person to ask about the set_name for the fallback, it's not possible from the api I think
<seb128> but it seems a reasonable request for an api addition or something
<ricotz> seb128, the patch isnt nice, it would mean to check for "main.py" which is quite generic
<ricotz> seb128, yes, updating appindicator would be the proper way
<seb128> well maybe there is a way to get the widget and do a setname manually then
<seb128> but yeah, let's check with the dx guys a bit later, they are not up yet
<seb128> do you have a bug number for that issue?
<ricotz> seb128, dont have a bug number, but there might be one
<geser> didrocks: I just filed an zeitgeist upgrade issue on precise (bug #894356), not sure if it fits into the "don't break upgrades for a long time" policy as retrying to install python-zeitgeist fixes the upgrade issue
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 894356 in zeitgeist "python-zeitgeist is missing a Replaces on zeitgeist-core (trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pyshared/zeitgeist/__init__.py')" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894356
<didrocks> geser: oh thanks, fixing that
<seb128> ricotz, seems close from https://bugs.launchpad.net/libappindicator/+bug/875770
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 875770 in libappindicator "Indicator icon and name are not set properly in System Tray fallback" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> lunch time
<seb128> bbiab
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, thanks, that would be it, of course the ibus patch itself is a problem too
<didrocks> geser: fixed, thanks! :)
<rodrigo_> mvo, I'm finding a few errors in u-s-s, like it reading /etc/default/console-setup when the XKB* keys are in /etc/default/keyboard
<pitti> didrocks: yep, I saw; we just need to wait until the at-spi fix is in, too
<didrocks> pitti: I was thinking uploading it tomorrow
<didrocks> pitti: to ensure we reach the 7 days first for unity-2d rather than pushing both at the same time
<didrocks> otherwise the fix is ready (agateau just have to rebase on latest version)
<agateau> I have a weird bug with the at-spi2-core package: the first time I build it (with debuild -b -uc -us) it works, but if I try it one more time it fails: the doc is not built
<agateau> I sort-of fixed that in my previous patch by adding --enable-gtk-doc to configure options, but I am not sure this is the best fix
<pitti> agateau: unfortunately quite a lot of source packages leave cruft behind after a binary build, or modify files, etc.
<pitti> that's why most of us build everything in separate build dirs, i. e. with bzr bd
<pitti> if you apply a fix, and the package is not in bzr, I recommend building the source first (debuild -S), then the binaries (debuild -b)
<pitti> then you can remove your source dir and re-unpack the new source, if it got messed up
<pitti> but bzr bd makes this quite a lot easier, and it's now available for all packages
<pitti> either our custom branches (debian/ only), or UDD
<agateau> ok, bzr bd sounds like a good option
<agateau> I don't want to "pollute" the sru with build fixes
<agateau> pitti: thanks for the tips
<mvo> rodrigo_: ohh, feel free to fix along the way
<rodrigo_> mvo, yes, doing so
<mvo> \o/
<agateau> mmm, it seems the clean target of at-spi2-core is a bit too strong: it rm a dir from the source archive
<agateau> didrocks: updated the at-spi2-core debdiff
<didrocks> agateau: thanks, will get to it shortly
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<didrocks> mvo: hey, are you aware of a good script which which will do like apt-get build-dep, but from a control file and without installing them?
<didrocks> I'm pretty sure that should already exists, at least for the buildds
<mvo> didrocks: gdebi debian/control should do
<didrocks> mvo: hum, this seems to work very well (after reinstalling gdebi ;)), however, I want to know all the build-deps (I can use a awk expression), them being installed or not
 * didrocks thinks to start from dpkg-checkbuilddeps and write some perl to remove the matching with what is locally installed
<Laney> sudo mk-build-deps -i -r
<Laney> oh, without installing
<Laney> what do you want it to give you?
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, you puzzled me with this option :)
<didrocks> Laney: basically, the list of all build-dep for this architecture, them being installled or not
<didrocks> I can surely do some regexp for that, but I was thinking that this existed already
<mvo> didrocks: oh, eh, hrm, iirc its gdebi --deb-line debian/control
<mvo> didrocks: hm, maybe not, I think it will omit the installed ones but that should be trivial to fix
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, I'm loooking at dpkg-checkbuilddeps, seems even more trivial to start from there
<seb128> mvo, could you look at bug #888293?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888293 in app-install-data-ubuntu "dia-gnome package is in database as dia-gnome-gnome" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888293
<seb128> mvo, it has what seems a simple patch
<seb128> (in reverse diff order though)
<pitti> desrt: FYI, filed bug 894391 to track XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 894391 in consolekit "support $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/894391
<pitti> desrt: didn't target it yet, as the spec defines a fallback
<pitti> desrt: is anything actually using that already?
<mdeslaur> seb128: any chance of getting seahorse-plugins put back in Oneiric? #862609
<seb128> bug #862609
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 862609 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-plugins gone in Oneiric" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862609
<seb128> mdeslaur, oneiric is released so I guess "no"
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, that's what I thought, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, we could get it to backport if somebody gets it to precise though
<seb128> mdeslaur, somebody *hint* ;-)
<seb128> mdeslaur, not that for GNOME 3.4 (we might not get the bits needed in precise though since we will default to stay on 3.2) they made different sources from it
<seb128> i.e seahorse-nautilus, seahorse-sharing
<mdeslaur> seb128: I'll gladly upload it, if someone from the desktop team could tell me what they would like me to do with libcryptui...ie: new binary package for the seahorse-daemon files?  instead of the hack I did in my ppa: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83910853/libcryptui_3.1.91-0ubuntu1_3.1.91-0ubuntu1.0~md1.diff.gz
<seb128> mdeslaur, is the version pitti packaged in oneiric not good enough?
<mdeslaur> seb128: it doesn't package the seahorse-daemon stuff
<seb128> mdeslaur, so seahorse has a different version of the lib that the standalone packaged one?
<seb128> mdeslaur, well, I wouldn't go crazy, I would package seahorse-nautilus 3.3.1 if that runs with our current libs
<seb128> mdeslaur, http://git.gnome.org/browse/seahorse-nautilus
<seb128> if that's the part you aim at bringing back
<mdeslaur> seb128: sorry, let me explain: seahorse-daemon got moved from the seahorse-plugins tarball to the libcryptui tarball, but our libcryptui in oneiric doesn't build a binary package for them
<seb128> it's easier that try to fix something that already went away in GNOME
<seb128> mdeslaur, what is that daemon doing?
<seb128> isn't it deprecated? it was doing gpg agent but that is in gnome-keyring since oneiric
<seb128> well, my understanding is that you only need and want the nautilus bits, which would be easier to get by packaging seahorse-nautilus
<mdeslaur> seb128: the daemon is what the new seahorse-nautilus and seahorse-plugins talk to
<seb128> hum ok
<seb128> dunno then sorry
<mdeslaur> seahorse-nautilus is just the nautilus extension, it's not the mime handler (which is the good part)
<seb128> mdeslaur, well I guess you should add a new binary to the lib in precise for the bits in doesn't ship in oneiric and then package seahorse-nautilus
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, can the desktop team give me an appropriate name for the new binary package? is this something that needs to be coordinated with debian?
<seb128> better if you coordinate with debian
<seb128> the GNOME guys are on #debian-gnome on oftc
<mdeslaur> ah, thanks, I'll do that
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> thanks for working on that!
<mdeslaur> np
<mdeslaur> ah! debian already has the binary package, coo.
<mdeslaur> s/coo/cool/
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin!
<GunnarHj> "our intention is to write the language as $LANGUAGE and the region as $LANG into ~/.pam_environment"
<GunnarHj> I take it that "region as $LANG" was a typo. ;-)
<pitti> GunnarHj: well, it's what things were like in the current versions :)
<GunnarHj> pitti: True. :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the tb notification have random email received counts it seems, did you get other people complaining about that?
<chrisccoulson> not yet :)
 * chrisccoulson prepares for more poking
<chrisccoulson> hi czajkowski
<seb128> mvo, could you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~nikola825/ubuntu/oneiric/python-apt/fix-for-500940/+merge/82079 as well?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, could you confirm if it happens for you as well?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just wait for a few emails and see if the notify-osd bubble say you received a few email or a random number
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. it might be easier to spot if i mark all my mails as read and start from zero, rather than starting from ~30000 unread :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, isn't it supposed to display the number of email you got in that fetch round?
<seb128> rather than the number of emails you have unread somewhere
<seb128> though my unread emails are close from 0 so it's buggy in any case there
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure what the notification bubble is meant to do. i've not touched that before :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good opportunity! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> is it fixed yet?
<chrisccoulson> oh, look there, another echo ;)
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> indeed
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: mind if I send a quick pm ?
<chrisccoulson> czajkowski, sure, feel free. no need to ask :)
<desrt> pitti: dconf
<didrocks> hey desrt
<desrt> didrocks: good morning
<didrocks> how are you?
<desrt> okay.
<desrt> how's upstream-under-new-rules treating you? :)
<didrocks> desrt: right now, it's rather I'm treating them :)
 * pitti imagines an arms race against didrocks tightening the tarmac checks and DBO creating sufficient noise under tests/ :)
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> mvo, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~gandelman-a/ubuntu/precise/squid-deb-proxy/lp893313/+merge/82980 as well?
<seb128> mvo, I'm done for today ;-)
<seb128> desrt, he's treating them so well that we didn't get any update since uds :p
<desrt> seb128: if only you could apply the new policy retroactively
<seb128> lol
<desrt> perhaps you'd find yourselves running gnome-shell, after all :)
<seb128> or perhaps we would still be running GNOME 2.16 on dapper or something :p
<desrt> thankfully, GNOME is not subject to your acceptance criteria :p
<desrt> otherwise ya.. you're probably right :)
<mvo> seb128: cracking the wip, eh ;) ?
<mvo> aha, squid-deb-proxy
 * mvo likes this one
<pitti> chrisccoulson: do you know if there's any progress on bug 857153? It's been on the RM radar for quite a while
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 857153 in firefox "Needs to get accessibility settings from GSettings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857153
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some erands, back in less than an hour
<chrisccoulson> pitti - not yet, and it sounds like it's not too much of an issue for oneiric
<chrisccoulson> it's something that we'll fix in precise though
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do oyu have a testsuite for it?
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, firefox has probably over 10000 tests ;)
<chrisccoulson> in fact, it's actually probably a lot more than that
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you need +1 now for the gsettings integration :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, but my +1 comes from upstream, who need to approve it before it lands on mozilla-central, before it gets 6 weeks of testing in aurora and 6 weeks of testing in beta before it is released ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: can we switch duties, just for a month please please please! ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> would you really want to look after a browser? ;)
<chrisccoulson> actually, that would be perfect
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I can do whatever I want to firefox, I'm forced to use chromium for launchpad :)
<chrisccoulson> you'd have to work on 20th december to handle the firefox 9 release! :-)
<chrisccoulson> and then you'd need to be available up until christmas eve to handle the inevitable 9.0.1 chemspill
<chrisccoulson> that would be great if we swapped for a month :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, I told "a month", not "that month" :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<rodrigo_> mvo, branch ready for review -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces/+merge/83308
<rodrigo_> mvo, works ok to set the system locale settings from g-c-c, and to retrieve the hostname
<pitti> apport_1.90-0ubuntu1_source.changes - PHEAR!
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, oh btw, system-wide locale settings are stored in /etc/default/locale, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok, then my code works and does the correct thing :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: yay!
<rodrigo_> pitti, but not only LANG, but all the LC_* vars can go there, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: right, that's what language-selector etc. does
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> got it right then
<pitti> rodrigo_: did you just implement that yourself? accountsservice is already supposed to do that
<pitti> SetLanguage()
<pitti> (and soon, SetRegion, by GunnarHj)
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, implemented it, as it has support for all LC_ vars
<rodrigo_> just a few lines of python though
<rodrigo_> but yes, I guess we'd want to call accountsservice
<mvo> rodrigo_: nice, I check it out
<cyphermox> seb128: I notice shotwell isn't building, are you looking at it already or can I take care of it?
<ricotz> updating qt4 multiarch installation is quite a pita :(
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, https://twitter.com/#!/nitot/status/139709707031019520 ;)
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo, cracking the whip for dholbach yes ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, check with mterry, I asked him if he could have a look yesterday
<seb128> cyphermox, but I'm not working on it
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, while you are around, did you plan to sru the evo updates?
<cyphermox> yup
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<cyphermox> this afternoon I can definitely finish that up
<chrisccoulson> wow, consecutive firefox and thunderbird builds. my old laptop would have burst in to flames doing this :)
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: nice. ;)
<chrisccoulson> and i can still do other stuff!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, I already saw it ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, you mean that you already saw the adverts?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, the tweet
<didrocks> I'm not using chrome but chromium
<didrocks> not sure if it will get it
<pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html is reset
<pitti> and all the user charts, too
<dpm> hi pitti, good afternoon. I'm looking at the release schedule - do you know what the LanguagePackTestRebuild milestone is? -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<pitti> so now the trend lines will actually make sense
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i ran chromium at the weekend and monitored outgoing http packets whilst i was typing addresses in to the addressbar
<pitti> dpm: I think the "Test" is a misnomer; we'll rebuild teh beta-1 packages at that day
<pitti> dpm: oh, no, we don't; it's a week later
<dpm> yeah, that's what confused me
<chrisccoulson> i knew that every keypress in the addressbar is sent to google for the search suggestions to work, but i was alarmed to realize that it also sent my login cookie for my google account :/
<dpm> pitti, yeah, it's before the translation deadline
<chrisccoulson> so not only do google see every URL i type in the addressbar, but they can associate that information with a specific individual
<chrisccoulson> scary stuff ;)
<pitti> dpm: so maybe the "Test" was intended indeed; but I have no idea who put that in or for what
<pitti> it's not like they undergo major structural changes
<dpm> pitti, it might have just meant the final build, but has been put in the wrong table cell
<dpm> I'll ask skaet when she's back
<pitti> dpm: I just talked to her, quick!
<pitti> she's about to go back to turkey :)
<pitti> dpm: but no urgency here, I guess
<dpm> ah, cool :)
<dpm> no, no rush, I was just curious
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, if you use firefox and the search bar, I guess the search results (if you press enter) is done under your google login as well, isn't it?
<pitti> TTFN, see you tomorrow!
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, for search results. not for URL's though, which is why firefox has a separate search box and addressbar :)
<didrocks> see you pitti!
<Laney> are you going to keep banshee / tomboy / gbrainy / mono in supported-desktop-extra?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, that's true that google will know every address I'm visiting
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm unsure how they can stock and process all those info btw :)
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> pitti, see you on monday, I'm off tomorrow again ;-)
<chrisccoulson> slacker :P
<mvo> haha - i was thinking the same
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> +1
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> all those french guys and their billions holidays
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, says the guy who two weeks of holidays recently!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i've still got 10 days to use up before the end of the year too ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> start taking the fridays off!
<chrisccoulson> i took a block of time off last december, and basically wrote the globalmenu-extension for firefox during that time
<chrisccoulson> perhaps i will have scrollbars working this time ;)
<seb128> lol
 * didrocks will buy zelda and just enjoy his 16 days of holidays in december :)
 * desrt is winner with 25 days left to take this year
<didrocks> desrt: 25 days, didn't you take some holidays recently (a week?)
<desrt> yup
<chrisccoulson> lol. so, you need to basically take the rest of the year off :)
<didrocks> see, you have even more holidays than french people!
<desrt> problem is that i took no holidays in 2010
<chrisccoulson> are there even 25 working days left?
<desrt> so all those days came forward to 2011 :)
<didrocks> ah, and you can cumulate? :)
<desrt> well
<desrt> the issue is that i tried to take them but was unable
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: should just have 26 in fact
<desrt> so i can't really lose them through no fault of my own
<didrocks> indeed
<seb128> does somebody on precise feels like building evince from the ubuntu-desktop packaging vcs and tell me if it builds? ;-) I'm reluctant to do other uploads to precise which don't build ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, just upload it! you can always fix it after feature freeze ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well that's what I've been doing this week slightly, uploading and pinging mterry for the stuff that failed to build. in my defence he said earlier in the week that with his +1 rotation I couldn't ping him about bugs, only stuff that don't build ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, to be fair I test build them but I'm on a mixed oneiric, precise system, I only upgrade things I need
<chrisccoulson> oh, if he's happy to be pinged about stuff which doesn't build:
<chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/9.0~b2+build1-0ubuntu1/+build/2934170
<seb128> in practice that's still closer from oneiric ;-)
<chrisccoulson> mterry^^ :)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> oh, he's not around :(
<ricotz> seb128, cant you use a chroot (like a precise pbuilder) to testbuild it?
<ricotz> seb128, you mean https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evince/ubuntu which is 3.2.1-0ubuntu2?
<chrisccoulson> ok, new firefox beta works, time to upload
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, nice :)
<chrisccoulson> unfortunately, beta uploads aren't very exciting. they're basically frozen until release
<ricotz> right ;)
<ricotz> oh, are the nightly for android out yet with the native ui?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, that's no fun indeed if he's not around to read it :-(
<seb128> ricotz, yeah, I could, I plan to upgrade as well, it's just that it's going to take me some hours to download everything, but no hurry to upload evince
<seb128> ricotz, it should be 1ubuntu1 in that vcs, I just merged on debian and pushed it
<ricotz> seb128, i have an updated precise here -- repo is still at rev134
<seb128> ricotz, doh, now it's pushed, sorry about that
<seb128> seems like I didn't enter my passphrase during that session
<seb128> it was waiting for it
<ricotz> ok, now it is there ;)
<desrt> pitti: nice blog post
<desrt> pitti: really looking forward to that
<desrt> viewing it from the other side, when i get a crash report i tend to ignore it because i think "oh.. they surely know about this one already"
<desrt> so having it pop up and not say "we already know about this" will be some indication that maybe i should go through the bother of reporting
<ricotz> seb128, builds and runs
<seb128> ricotz, thanks for testing!
<ricotz> seb128, np
<rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
<didrocks> ok, time for dinner, see you tomorrow everyone and enjoy your week-end seb128 :)
<seb128> mvo, thanks for the squid-deb-proxy sponsoring
<seb128> mvo, did you see the 2 other urls I pinged about (just making sure, no hurry to look at those)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-25
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> desrt: exactly
<RAOF> Hey there pitti!
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> I'm pretty good.
<RAOF> Figured out why my first test started crashing once I added a second :)
<pitti> RAOF: ah, working on nux test suite?
<RAOF> Unity, yeah.
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> quite fine!
<pitti> just learned about the admin -> sudo group migration in the installer, now trying to catch up
<pitti> how about you?
<didrocks> pitti: still some sore throat, I'm eager that to finish :)
<didrocks> otherwise, all is fine, need to prepare to go to the ubuntu party in Toulouse for this week-end
<didrocks> (6th "ubuntu weekend" in a row if we count UDS)
<pitti> no wonder you get no rest..
 * pitti hugs didrocks, enjoy!
 * didrocks hugs pitti back, thanks
<didrocks> but I will surely enjoy a quiet week-end next week :)
<didrocks> so, you are upadting the polkit rules to have the "sudo" group as well?
<pitti> didrocks: yes, that, polkit-desktop-privileges, workign on accountsservice now
<pitti> to recongnize both and set "sudo" for admins
<didrocks> hoping that's the only 2 offended places, good luck :-)
<pitti> KDE's control center likely has that as well
<pitti> and I'm sure that there are a number of other places which check for "admin" group only
<pitti> quite a surprise this morning..
<didrocks> more than possible, indeed
<baptistemm> hello
<pitti> chrisccoulson: oh, mozjs wants to go to universe; you are happy about this, I take it?
<pitti> didrocks: zeitgeist-extensions wants to go to universe now; is that obsolete and should be removed, or will it be updated to current zeitgeist?
<didrocks> pitti: you mean, zeitgeist-extension-fts or just the source package, zg-extensions?
<pitti> didrocks: both
<pitti> related to that, I now have a process "python /usr/share/zeitgeist/fts-python/fts.py"; should I have?
<didrocks> pitti: zg-fts-extensions should still be there
<pitti> I was hoping we could get rid of python there
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, the extensions are still in python
<pitti> so it seems nothign pulls in zg-e-fts any more
<didrocks> let me see if zeitgeist-fts-extension should be directly seeded or be a recommends of anything
<didrocks> pitti: I would go for seeding it directly, as debian dropped the recommends
<didrocks> hum, u-l-a should dep on zg-extension-fts
<didrocks> pitti: ^
<didrocks> weird, why is it in component mismatch?
<didrocks> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/unity-lens-applications
<didrocks> and u-l-a still in main
<pitti> hm, weird indeed
<didrocks> Provides: zeitgeist-extension-fts
<didrocks> zg-core
<didrocks> hum, I need to speak to rainct
<pitti> ah, it prefers the already installed package then
<didrocks> it doens't provide it last time I talked to mhr3
<didrocks> indeed
<pitti> but that seems wrong then, if core zg doesn't yet provide full text search
<didrocks> I know it was planned, but it wasn't the case last time I checked
<didrocks> pitti: I'll check and fix one way or another today, thanks!
<didrocks> /usr/share/zeitgeist/fts-python, seems it made it, nice
<pitti> didrocks: merci
<didrocks> will check with upstream, if this is the case, we can even remove the other package
<didrocks> pitti: de rien, merci de m'avoir prÃ©venu ;)
<pitti> didrocks: I hope the actual meaning of that is a lot less strong than google translate indicates :)
<pitti> bbl
<didrocks> pitti: hum, it's basically, "thanks for notifying me about it" :)
<pitti> ah :)
<pitti> google says "thank you for defendant", as if I was sueing you :)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> ah, prÃ©venu
<didrocks> yeah, prÃ©venu == prÃ©venir (to notify, to warn about)
<didrocks> but a "prÃ©venu" is someone you are sueing, right :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: I'm opening a bug to remove fts extensions, after some investigation, yeah, it's the zg-core version which is the latest and greatest
<didrocks> hum, or maybe just demote, as it's still in debian
<didrocks> and potentially, other extensions can come back
<pitti> didrocks: either is fine with me
<didrocks> I went the demotion way :)
<pitti> Sweetshark: on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt there is a bunch of java OO.o related libs which want to go to universe; is that ok? I didn't see a LibO upload recently, wonder what changed
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm fine, thanks! how about you? flu gone for good?
<chrisccoulson> it's almost gone now :)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<glatzor> hello mvo, could please have a look at the two merge proposals for aptdaemon: prettyrepos and cached-changelogs?
<rodrigo_> mvo, just upgraded my branch, with a test program and several fixes
<rodrigo_> and fixing the systemd comments, as per seb's comments
<mvo> glatzor: will do
<glatzor> mvo, thanks
<mvo> glatzor: commented inline, awsome work, but two tiny remarks
<Sweetshark> pitti: hmm, strange. dunno either.
<pitti> Sweetshark: do any of these look like you'd miss them?
<pitti> well, we can always re-promote them of course
<Sweetshark> pitti: they are transitional only anyway, right?
<pitti> Sweetshark: not e. g. libformula-java-openoffice.org
 * didrocks knows show the flag for reaching 101 manual test cases for unity & compiz
<pitti> didrocks: wow! was that the goal?
<pitti> didrocks: OOI, how long do you estimate will it take to run through that once as a tester?
 * ogra_ thoguht they were automated tests running at build time
<didrocks> pitti: there is no goal, but I think I covered most of launcher/panel/dash/alt-tab and window functionnality
<pitti> didrocks: you rock!
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<didrocks> pitti: I think it will take approx. 3 hours
<didrocks> and 1h30 once you know the tests well, most of them are short
<didrocks> ogra_: the manual tests are the distros one
<ogra_> ah
<didrocks> ogra_: for accepting to release a new version
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Hi Rodrigo, wondering if you noticed https://bugs.freedesktop.org/42857
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes, pitti told me about it
<rodrigo_> not about the bug, but about you working on it :)
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok. With that bug I try to make them apply the code upstream, which would benefit GNOME just as much, I think.
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, although not sure about it, we have the SetLocale interface in systemd, which this branch implements -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/new-interfaces/+merge/83308
<rodrigo_> that's what GNOME upstream uses to set the system locale settings
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Do you possibly know how to best get in contact with Ray or Matthias?
<rodrigo_> it saves all the LANG and LC_* vars in /etc/default/locale
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, matthias is in #control-center in gimpnet, most of the time (he's in USA)
<GunnarHj> Aha, thanks.
<rodrigo_> and he's usually here -> mclasen afaik
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, so that's what we should use now, instead of adding /etc/default/locale writing to accountsservice?
<rodrigo_> pitti, I think so
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, what apps would use that interface in accountsservice?
<pitti> so far that's language-selector
<GunnarHj> g-c-c, I suppose. We are not only talking about the system wide (/etc/default/locale), but the per-user settings.
<pitti> but if that goes away, and g-c-c uses systemd, it'll be obsolete
<rodrigo_> g-c-c already uses the systemd interface for setting /etc/default/locale
<rodrigo_> so yes, I don't think we need it
<pitti> GunnarHj: oh, right; the system-wide thing is l-s' own dbus backend, ignore me
<pitti> rodrigo_: ^
<pitti> so we only need it for per-user, yes
<pitti> it feels a bit weird to split that up between "per user" and "system" between accountsservice and systemd, but *shrug*
<rodrigo_> per-user? we already do that in the region panel
<pitti> rodrigo_: trough accountsservice, I guess?
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: But that involves g-s-d, if I remember it correctly.
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: per-user region settings through accountsservice? How?
<rodrigo_> GunnarHj, when you unlock the permissions in user accounts panel, you can set each user's language, and that's via accountsservice's SetLanguage
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: language, yes, but that's something else. I'm talking about regional formats now.
<rodrigo_> hmm right, I got confused, this new method in accountsservice is for the specific user interface, not for system-wide, right?
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: yes
<rodrigo_> ok then yes, I guess it makes sense
<rodrigo_> sorry, I was confused :)
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: no problem. We all get confused once in a while when discussing locales and such. :)
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> so, formats_locale stores the LC_ALL variable?
 * rodrigo_ looks at the patch deeper
<GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Not LC_ALL, but LC_TIME, LC_CURRENCY etc.
<GunnarHj> But that you don't see in the patch.
<rodrigo_> ok, then I guess it would be better as a "as" in the dbus interface
<rodrigo_> that is, an array of strings?
<GunnarHj> Don't think so. It's just one value, that is used for a bunch of env. variables.
<rodrigo_> or even better, we could have SetLanguage renamed to SetLocale and make accept an array of strings, hence no need for 2 method calls from the region panel
<rodrigo_> but yes, let's discuss with mclasen later, ping me when you ping him also, please
<GunnarHj> will do.
<rodrigo_> systemd does that, SetLocale (as), so that it gets all the vars
<rodrigo_> we could get it to accept just a string, but I think it makes sense to do the SetLanguage->SetLocale renaming
<GunnarHj> Hmm... haven't thought about that. For 'pedagogical' reasons I wonder if it isn't better to have two properties, after all. People tend to mix up language and regional formats all the time...
<GunnarHj> Need to stop now. See you later.
<rodrigo_> ok, later
<pitti> rodrigo_: FWIW, I agree that keeping SetLanguage() and adding SetRegion() is better
<pitti> rodrigo_: it's less confusing, how to map those to LC_* is an implementation detail, and it keeps API compat of SetLanguage()
<pitti> rodrigo_: how does 'as' work? the individual strings look like 'LC_FOO=bar'? i. e. they include the var?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<pitti> or do they have to have a particular order? (that would be sick)
<rodrigo_> no, no order
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<pitti> taking a break, back for release meeting
<didrocks> Riddell: hey, not sure you saw my email about the fact that I fixed pyromaths :)
<Riddell> didrocks: no, where was that?
<Riddell> oh, it's in my inbox :)
<Riddell> accepted
<didrocks> Riddell: thanks :)
<didrocks> ok, will take the train now, I'll probably enjoy the 4 hours of train to Toulouse to add test cases to oneconf :)
<didrocks> see you on monday everyone!
<pitti> Sweetshark: would it be possible to do a rebuild of LibO in precise against teh current libraries?
<pitti> sanbar: or is that an inordinate amount of work?
<pitti> sorry sanbar, I meant Sweetshark
<MrChrisDruif> pitti; I thinkn sanbar likes the attention ;-)
 * bryceh waves
<desrt> bryceh: hello
<Sweetshark> pitti: what exactly do you mean by rebuild? just retriggering the build, or a new upload with new version number but without changing the package itself? both wouldnt be too much of a hassle ...
<kenvandine> Sweetshark, i would suspect a no change upload
<Sweetshark> kenvandine: thats easy. it only gets tricky with changes which is like playing mikado ;)
<kenvandine> indeed
<Sweetshark> kenvandine: luckily everthing will be better with 3.5
 * Sweetshark still uses his illusion as Guns'n Roses once told him to ...
<kenvandine> haha
<micahg> Sweetshark: I think he was asking more about whether or not you think it'll build
<micahg> dch -R is the easy part :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-26
<OwaisL> Hey guys, can anyone help me with building unity? I'm following this guide (http://askubuntu.com/questions/28470/how-do-i-build-unity-from-source/28472#28472)
<OwaisL> traceback http://paste.ubuntu.com/750286/
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-27
<pulchras> hola chicos
<pulchras> una pregunta
<pulchras> cual era el comando para buscar los distintos archivos man relacionados con una palabra clave?
<dobey> para hablar en ingles por favor
<desrt> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> desrt, hello
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: there?
<jasoncwarner_> cdbs yup yup!
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: Not a proper topic for discussion on a Sunday, but..
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: Why not create an online database (or extend reviews.ubuntu.com?) which contains package descriptions from which software center will query and display those?
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: since right now, many package descriptions in software center are geeky
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: and the only way to fix that is to change debian/control in the package, which essentially adds to the Ubuntu delta since many DDs often reject the patch when sent there
<jasoncwarner_> cdbs: I don't know the full plans there, but mpt has been talking about that for a while (he and I talked about geeky USC descriptions quite a bit last cycle). I know there are some plans with mvo and mpt there...not sure the extent, though.
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: Well
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: when I asked mpt about it @ UDS, he said there were "no plans" on it
<cdbs> maybe he misunderstood my question?
<jasoncwarner_> cdbs: hmm...not sure. would have to check with him. probably worth another convo, though.
<chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner_, how are you?
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: pretty good, thanks! you? have a good weekend
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_,  yeah, not too bad thanks. i'm actually starting to feel normal again for the first time since UDS :)
<RAOF> Have fun at whichever beach you were at?  That must be quite a drive to get to âº
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: too much sunshine?
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: yeah, was fun. seeing the water and sand...always a good day.
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, not sure. i've been pretty unwell ever since i got back, and ended up with a chest infection
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: dang! did you get that all sorted out with the doctor and stuff?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Oooh, sucks.
<chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah, it seems to be sorted now
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: *phew*
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: glad to hear that.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-19
<BigWhale> Good morning all.
<pitti> Bonjour
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va? as-tu eu un bon week-end?
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti. Bon week-end, you! jdll Ã  Lyon, donc beaucoup de discussions libristes. Seb, vincent, fredp Ã©taient lÃ .
<didrocks> et toi?
<pitti> oh, un week-end de confÃ©rence
<pitti> didrocks: mon femme et moi sommes allÃ©s Ã  un hotel wellness
<pitti> nous avons eu un temps ensoleillÃ©
<didrocks> pitti: relaxant et reposant donc?
<pitti> so we enjoyed some hiking, sauna, a massage, and a suite with a whirlpool :)
<pitti> didrocks: en effet!
<didrocks> nice ;)
<pitti> didrocks: c'Ã©tait une surprise
<pitti> I picked her up at work on Friday, she didn't know anything beforea
<didrocks> pitti: bien jouÃ© ;)
<Laney> ahoy hoy
<didrocks> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey didrocks - not bad thanks!
 * Laney just google translated the previous conversation ;-)
<Laney> -1 to this default language switch :P
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
<mlankhorst> oui!
<mlankhorst> Laney: oui pour langue franÃ§ais officiÃªl!
<mlankhorst> Hope I didn't butcher that too much. :-)
<didrocks> seb128: do you have the push to reveal launcher broken?
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, no, but I didn't upgrade today yet
<didrocks> jibel told me he's seeing this on ati, intel, and I can reproduce
<didrocks> I wonder if the xorg update is the culpurit
<Laney> ppa unity or archive?
<didrocks> archive
<Laney> let me try then, just dist-upgraded
<Laney> yeah, got it
<didrocks> thanks for confirming Laney
<Laney> on the left monitor only, the barrier between screens works and reveals it
<didrocks> still the main use case :)
<Laney> nvidia
<didrocks> ok, we got all covered
<didrocks> intel, ati, nvidia
<didrocks> bryce: FYI ^ Can you please have a look at it and we should really have the unity tests running before pushing the xorg packages? (if xorg is really the culpurit here, which seems really likely)
<Laney> wow
<Laney> bug #1073724
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1073724 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Pointer barriers have gaps along the edge of the screen" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073724
<Laney> known to break stuff ... ?
<Laney> mlankhorst: ^- should we revert this patch?
<seb128> seems like we should yes
<didrocks> I agree
<seb128> pitti, hey, so this udisk bug ... seems like it's users of old fs formats
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> seb128: not quite -- we have ACLs enabled for ext2 and ext3
<seb128> oh ok
<tjaalton> I'll revert it
<pitti> seb128: I'll ask for getting ssh access
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks
<mlankhorst> Laney: ok I'll revert it
<Laney> mlankhorst: tjaalton just said he would
<mlankhorst> at least saves sru paperwork for that patch :)
<tjaalton> mlankhorst: yeah I'm on it
<desrt> good morning, folks
<attente_zzz> g'morning
<larsu> desrt, attente, good morning!
<attente> larsu hi!
<desrt> productive weekend?
<larsu> unfortunately not, I was a bit sick. (You're asking about GActionMuxer again, aren't you?)
<desrt> larsu: hey.  i just remembered GActionMuxer.  how's that coming?
<larsu> lol. Jut as well as GSettings list I imagine
<larsu> s/Jut/Just
 * desrt slayed a whole load of paperwork this weekend
<larsu> sounds like fun!
<cyphermox> good mornign!
<desrt> cyphermox: word up
<cyphermox> desrt:  yo
<larsu> hi cyphermox
<cyphermox> is it some kind of holiday in europe? :)
<larsu> not that I know of, but it does seem really quiet in here
<cyphermox> yeah
 * desrt laments the lack of general-purpose 'european jokes'
<cyphermox> desrt: make them up
<desrt> (or maybe negative stereotypes is what i'm going for)
<cyphermox> register them in the big joke registry
<larsu> not enough stereotypes about europeans? You must be joking...
<desrt> cyphermox: hahaha i bet those europeans are celebrating SOCIALIST HEALTHCARE DAY
<desrt> losers
<desrt> hey wait.... that doesn't work :/
<cyphermox> :)
<cyphermox> yeah, we'd be celebrating too
<desrt> (lol) http://www.businessinsider.com/stereotypes-in-europe-chart-goes-viral-2012-5
<larsu> haha
 * larsu wonders about the least corrupt thing, given that the last German president needed to step down because of corruption charges...
<sbte> pitti, are you there?
<pitti> hello sbte
<sbte> pitti, hi
<sbte> is there anything I can do to help fix this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pygobject/+bug/1050358
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1050358 in emesene (Ubuntu) "emesene crashed with SIGSEGV in tupledealloc.24592()" [Critical,Confirmed]
<pitti> sbte: nobody maintains the old static bindings any more, I'm afraid; I guess you need to track it down yourself
<sbte> pitti, it's also in pygobject
<sbte> the exact same bug
<pitti> so, for the pygobject developers it would certainly be helpful to reduce the crash to a small reproducer
<pitti> which doesn't involve creating an MSN account, installing emesene, debuggin the old static bindings, etc.
<rvr_> chrisccoulson: When is Firefox 17 going to be released in Quantal?
<pitti> meh, google online accounts is unnerving; it seems to time out twice a day
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ is that known?
<pitti> I almost always have to re-sign in now
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> that hasn't happened to me in a while
<kenvandine> pitti, did you add that accounts before like beta2?
<pitti> kenvandine: very plausible
<kenvandine> try removing them and adding again
<kenvandine> that bug was fixed
<pitti> but it was rather quiet for some months, it just started nagging again today
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, will try
<kenvandine> and... i think part of it was to store something different
<kenvandine> humm... could be a sign of something changing on google's side too
<pitti> I'll try to remove/re-add jabber as well; empathy keeps showing an error on opening
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks; I'll try that for a bit
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> let me know how it goes
<kenvandine> great to see some gstreamer 1.0 packages in my morning dist-upgrade :)
<seb128> kenvandine, using the ppa?
<kenvandine> oh... maybe i am :)
<desrt> lovely
<desrt> in 20 minutes they're going to turn off power to the building
<seb128> desrt, time to go work in a coffee shop? ;-)
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you?
<desrt> pitti: peachy
<seb128> desrt, hey btw
<desrt> seb128: hi :)
<desrt> seb128: meh.  i have my solar power system and 3G connection :)
<ogra_> oh, when was evolution-indicator dropped ?
 * ogra_ just tried to install it in raring, seems its gone
<jbicha> ogra_: quantal, it needs someone to port it
<ogra_> ah, k
<seb128> ogra_, cyphermox will reupload it soon, we got a contributor who did the porting work
<seb128> ogra_, seems to be working fine
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<jbicha> seb128: howdy
<cyphermox> yes yes, I was just finishing up today, the patch is upstream now
<cyphermox> ogra_: ^
<ogra_> seb128, awesome !
<seb128> jbicha, how are you?  do you know what's the status of the new ibus/g-s-d/g-c-c stack?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm sure it's an excuse from desrt to work from the airport :p
<jbicha> seb128: mterry was working on the appearance panel last week, and I don't know if anyone's started on the ibus indicator or keyboard indicator work
<desrt> didrocks: how did you know?!
<didrocks> \o/
<jbicha> personally I'
<seb128> jbicha, I checked out the vcs to play with that in the train the other day and the g-c-c packaging in the vcs is all broken, like patches don't apply, etc
<seb128> jbicha, how did you get it to build at all in the ppa? do you have work you didn't commit?
<jbicha> seb128: g-c-c builds fine here against raring w/ the desktop ppa
<jbicha> (I have to log out for 15 min)
<seb128> jbicha, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu patches don't apply though, weird
<seb128> jbicha, or do you use another Vcs?
<seb128> jbicha, ok, ttyl
<seb128> jbicha, hum, ignore that, you did updates since I checked out the Vcs before travelling last week
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some exercice, be back in ~1h
<Sweetshark> bdrung: that for that magic sync of libcdr! ;)
<bdrung> "that for that"?
<Sweetshark> bdrung: ups s/that for that/thanks for that/
<bdrung> you're welcome
 * Sweetshark slaps his fumble fingers.
<Sweetshark> bdrung: I expected having to take care of those myself and filed the bugs most as notes to self. so it was a pleasant surprise to find one of them in 'fix released' ;)
<bdrung> Sweetshark: the sync request appeared on the sponsoring queue. :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: any good idea on how to handle bug 1079653 and bug 1079665 (both not yet in experiemental in that version, only in an older one)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079653 in libcmis (Ubuntu) "please sync a libcmis version > 0.3.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079653
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079665 in mdds (Ubuntu) "please sync a mdds version > 0.6.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079665
<Sweetshark> seb128: and bug 1079656 and bug 1079659 (both already created as packages by rene but not yet in experimental)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079656 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a liblangtag version > 0.4.0 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079656
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1079659 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] please sync a libmspub version > 0.0.3 to raring as it is needed for libreoffice 4.0" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079659
<Sweetshark> it would be nice to have those in raring even if they are not in experimental by FF, I guess.
<cyphermox> ogra_: waiting for a few more small fixes from the contributor. If you want I can upload this in its current state to a PPA
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, just take the vcs code and get it sponsored?
<bcurtiswx> j/w since a majority of work in previous cycles has gone into staying with GNOME, and this cycle we're sticking with what we have. Is there a area on the Desktop team that will get more focus now?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it's mostly "stop using GNOME fallback code for unity since GNOME will drop that in 3.8" and "improve performances of Ubuntu so it runs better on devices"
<bcurtiswx> seb128, great thx. and hi :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, with continued efforts on improving our testing and quality
<seb128> bcurtiswx, hey
<bcurtiswx> seb128, how well do you know the plans for the nexus 7 ?
<seb128> well enough, there is nothing too specific or no real "plan"
<seb128> we have a bunch of blueprints with workitems
<seb128> but it's basically "chase stuff that are eating cpu and/or using memory and improve them"
<bcurtiswx> is it going to be its own package set, or everything is going into Ubuntu this cycle ?
<seb128> we identified some targets already
<seb128> like "don't make run services all the time if not needed"
<seb128> there is no plan to do anything specific out of Ubuntu
<seb128> it's all optimization work that will benefit laptops, etc as well
<seb128> we will just have some tweaks on kernel, drivers, and maybe some gsettings key values
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK. I ask because I was given a nexus 7 to use towards this work, so beyond the wiki page of info I was trying to find out more.
<seb128> oh, great
<seb128> ogra_, ^ do you have pointers or extra documentation?
<Sweetshark> seb128: k. well, will make it a 0ubuntu1 then as rene might tweak them still. (I see rene next weekend anyway at the Munich Hackfest, maybe I get him to upload to experimental anyway.)
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, take something under -1
<seb128> Sweetshark, you can do -1~ubuntu or something
<seb128> or -0ubuntu1 works as well
<seb128> does anyone know how to use ibus there?
<seb128> not how to set up an input method, but how to e.g enter chinese glyphs
<seb128> like there is some sort of completion list popup that is used ... how is that one working, how does one trigger it?
<attente> seb128: a bit
<attente> let's see if i can remember...
<attente> oh right
<attente> i just hit Ctrl+Space and it seems to switch
<attente> ä½ å¥½
<seb128> attente, right, I can enter some chinese glyphs but I don't see the popdown ui which has options
<attente> popdown ui?
<robru> attente, cool, I can see those glyphs correctly in IRC. I wouldn't have expected that ;-)
<seb128> attente, http://cdn.alternativeto.net/s/86d591b8-bc93-e011-9798-0025902c7e73_1_full.png
<seb128> attente, that popup ui
<seb128> attente, or http://desktopi18n.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gnome-shell-ibus-lookup-window-20120216.png (shell version)
<attente> seb128: it doesn't appear for you when you switch to Chinese?
<attente> i see it as soon as i start typing
<seb128> attente, no, I can
<seb128> ã
<seb128> ãåå§¿
<attente> you can type, but it the popup doesn't appear?
<seb128> right
<attente> weird...
<seb128> what desktop do you use?
<attente> unity
<seb128> ok
<seb128> well in fact I'm testing the ibus 1.5 update and g-s-d 3.6 from the desktop ppa
<seb128> so maybe it's buggy
<attente> can you try ibus-setup?
<seb128> I need to go back to 1.4 to see how it was working
<jbicha> seb128: you logged out of Unity and logged back in first, right?
<seb128> jbicha, yes, I've that installed for 5 days, I rebooted a bunch of times
<attente> seb128: what do you see under the Input Method tab of ibus-setup?
<seb128> attente, chewing
<seb128> chinese - chewing
<attente> oh. weird
<seb128> well, I added that one
<seb128> there was nothing listed by default
<attente> ok
<attente> but even then i don't see that method available to add
<attente> but it could be traditional v. simplified
<jbicha> seb128: try Chinese -pinyin
<attente> robru: hi!
<robru> attente, hey dude
<robru> attente, thanks again for everything. how's it going?
<seb128> robru, hey, how do you feel this week? better
<robru> seb128, yeah, nose is still stuffy but I'm generally more clear-headed, yeah. thanks
<attente> robru: moved yet? ;)
<robru> attente, two weeks!
<robru> attente, this is my last week of work, then I took the next week off for packing/moving, then Nov 30th I arrive at the hostel in Victoria to begin looking for an apartment ;-)
<attente> robru: ah, guess you'll be missing Winnipeg :)
<robru> attente, not even slightly ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: chewing doesn't seem to do the pop-down; I don't know if it used to or not but pinyin works fine here in Unity or GNOME Shell
<seb128> jbicha, attente: thanks, indeed pinyin works
<seb128> damn chewing :p
<attente> speaking of chewing :)
<jbicha> attente: lunch time?
<seb128> attente, lunch time! ;-)
<attente> jbicha, seb128 correct!
<attente> :)
<seb128> enjoy!
<seb128> jbicha, so, what bugs/feature is missing in the g-c-c 3.6 stack for you out of ibus indicator, keyboard indicator and the new appareance capplet that mterry just landed?
<seb128> jbicha, just trying to figure what is remaining to do, I would like to land it this week, we can live without the keyboard indicator for a bit
<jbicha> 50_ubuntu_systemwide_proxy.patch needs to be rewritten
<jbicha> we need to decide whether to rewrite or drop 60_ubuntu_nav_bar.patch
<seb128> jbicha, I will have a look to 60_ubuntu_nav but dropping should be fine
<seb128> is upstream doing anythink for the proxy? they don't have a way to set a default one?
<jbicha> for g-s-d 3.6.3, 90_set_gmenus_xsettings.patch needs refreshing/rewriting
<jbicha> seb128: I don't use a proxy but I believe our patch simply allows setting a proxy for all users
<seb128> jbicha, ok
<seb128> will look at the xsetting one
<seb128> jbicha, hum, it seems like we could probably get something upstream for the proxy stuff, I guess that would be useful on other distros as well
<jbicha> seb128: yes, their proxy panel is a bit incomplete; GNOME's region & language panel allows setting a system language so there is some precedent for that type of feature
<robru> can anybody point me at some documentation explaining the differences between compat 8 and compat 9 in debhelper?
<Laney> robru: see the debhelper manpage
<Laney> that's the best place for such info
<robru> Laney, ah, thanks
<robru> was looking for a wiki or something, hadn't thought of man
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-20
<robru> xnox, ping
<Chucrute301> Smspillaz
<Chucrute301> You are here?
<Chucrute301> ?
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning pitti, BigWhale!
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> I be fine.
<RAOF> Hows about yourself?
<BigWhale> I wonder which timezone are you people from ... :>
<RAOF> A fine GMT+11 here!
<BigWhale> +1 here
<BigWhale> yes ... it's 6am ... :>
<RAOF> That's perhaps a bit early in the morning âº
<pitti> RAOF: I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> BigWhale: right, UTC+1 here
<duflu> smspillaz: My first task for this bug was to do what you just logged in a new bug... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1070817
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1070817 in Compiz "make test fails in CompizConfigPython.test_* (OTHER_FAULT) " [Medium,In progress]
<duflu> So you can have both bugs if you want :)
<snkt> hello all
<snkt> can anyone help me how the booting process in ubuntu take place... which is the scripts it runs after executing /init ?
<RAOF> snkt: upstart runs the jobs configured in /etc/init/; its SysV compatibility layer also runs the appropriate stuff in /etc/init.d
 * duflu is surprised to see that quantal still has /any/ legacy init scripts
<snkt> RAOF, thanks for instant reply.... actually I want to optimize ubuntu 11.10 bootup time...
<snkt> RAOF, right now ubuntu stuck for almost 3-4 mins after executing /init.... and then enters into rc2.d....
<snkt> I m not able to figure out where it get stuck and why?
<snkt> will you please help me???
<RAOF> You'll probably be better served in #ubuntu. And possibly by upgrading to 12.04 :)
<snkt> RAOF, I m working on ARM based embedded device
<RAOF> duflu: We get a bunch of init scripts from Debian; they're the majority of *my* legacy scripts.
<RAOF> Plus, inexplicably, apparmour.
<duflu> RAOF: Right, but I assume nothing major in the critical path of boot performance is still legacy-style :)
<RAOF> snkt: To better answer your question - have you tried getting a bootchart? Simply installing the bootchart package will get you a bootchart on each boot, with nicely broken down I/O, CPU usage, and process timing.
<snkt> RAOF, thanks .... I will try...
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: Mir geht es gut, danke! Und dir?
<didrocks> Ich habe gut geschlafen :)
<pitti> for the first time in several cycles I get intel GPU hangs again about once or twice per day :(
<didrocks> blank screen or hanging? (can you access a tty when it happens?)
<pitti> yes, tty work fine; but X freezes, only mouse works
<pitti> restarting X sessino then causes a lot of screen corruption and compiz using 100% CPU, so only reboot helps
 * pitti hugs byobu
<didrocks> I had that last Saturdayâ¦ during my talkâ¦
<pitti> ouch
<pitti> didrocks: but in raring, not quantal hopefully?
<didrocks> raring yeah
<pitti> argh, another freeze
<pitti> didrocks: FYI, I reported mine as bug 1081009
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081009 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[arrandale] GPU lockup IPEHR: 0x02000022" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081009
<pitti> I do get the .crash files
<pitti> bryce, tjaalton: ^ did you hear about GPU lockups in raring? haven't had those for ages
<didrocks> pitti: subscribing, thanks
<pitti> didrocks: do you have Arrandale as well?
<didrocks> pitti: I just looked at the crash file, seems to be the same
<tjaalton> pitti: IÃ¤
<tjaalton> uh
<tjaalton> I
<tjaalton> damn
 * pitti hugs tjaalton
<tjaalton> pitti: I'm not on raring yet :)
<tjaalton> there
<pitti> ah, wise
<tjaalton> but I guess you could try the quantal kernel, to see if it's a regression
<pitti> yeah, I will
<pitti> or rather, whether the bug is in the kernel or mesa etc.
<pitti> it is definitively a regression, it just started a few days ago; before that I haven't had freezes since lucid or so
<tjaalton> 3.7 did rewrite a bunch of stuff in drm/i915, so it's possible there are some regressions left
<tjaalton> well, check if you got a newer kernel
<tjaalton> x-wise there hasn't been much updates yet
<pitti> yes, it roughly coincides with the update to 3.7
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, oui, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, en forme! :)
<didrocks> seb128: meeting report reminder!
<seb128> didrocks, oh, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, overslept again, I think I'm compensating for the w.e long nights I didn't have this w.e ;-)
<pitti> seb128: sehr gut, danke!
<didrocks> seb128: heh, I started later as well yesterday and today (~8am instead of 7) :)
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> and in the evening, was quite difficult to not fall asleep
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> hey Laney :)
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
 * Laney had a nap last night ...!
<pitti> seb128: oh, que as-tu fait le week-end?
<seb128> pitti, j'Ã©tais chez didrocks Ã  Lyon
<pitti> seb128: Ã  la conference?
<Laney> seb128: yeah good thanks, it's my girlfriend's birthday today so we're going out later (and tomorrow, and friday ...)
<seb128> pitti, on est allÃ© aux JDLL, une confÃ©rence logiciel libre, avec vuntz et d'autres
<seb128> Laney, nice!
<Laney> I got her a banjo as a present
<seb128> Laney, have fun then ;-)
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you
<Laney> can hear it being played now :p
<pitti> Laney: oh wow!
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> Laney: sounds funny, hoping it'll play fine with the neighbours ;)
<pitti> Laney: do you play as well?
<pitti> Laney: so that you can perform Dueling Banjos?
<Laney> pitti: sadly I'm pretty inept when it comes to music
<Laney> really keen to learn piano though
<pitti> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj9ghC2SgbY :)
<Laney> hah
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm quite fine, thanks!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, pretty good thanks. still gradually working through test failures ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> quite good thank you ;-)
<chrisccoulson> ah, i guess the fullscreen tests will fail in xvfb, without a window manager
 * didrocks now builds all upstream source packages (and signing them) inside a cowbuilder chroots, with all build-deps installed \o/
<Laney> jibel: pitti: do you know what happened here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/job/raring-adt-libproxy/ARCH=i386,label=albali/lastFailedBuild/console ? looks like the test environment broke?
<pitti> Laney: yeah, we can just poke the tests; in meeting, brb
<Laney> ok
<pitti> Laney: poked
<Laney> merci mon ami
<pitti> de rien :)
<Laney> it'll be good to have access to do that oneself once these start influencing migration
<pitti> Laney: so it's happy again
<Laney> nice, cheers
 * Laney compares console output
<Laney> heh
<Laney> seems the actual test itself doesn't run with set -x
<Laney> so you see an absolute ton of information from the test runner, but not very much from the test
<Sweetshark> seb128: could you recheck why bug 1037111 is still stuck? its a security issue and has been waiting for quite some time ...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037111 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] LibreOffice 3.5.7 for precise" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1037111
<seb128> Sweetshark, because the SRU team is behind in queue review, there are over 30 items waiting in the precise queue and close from 40 in the quantal one
<seb128> Sweetshark, try pinging them directly maybe saying that there is a security issue there ... I guess they will ask why it's not going through -security in this case though
<Sweetshark> seb128: I will ping security about it, maybe they can fasttrack this one.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: btw I have a call with TDF Advisory Board at 1800CET, so I might be somewhat absent minded in the desktop-meeting
<Sweetsha1k> source code comment: "FIXME: STYLE_* duplicate values from editeng::SvxBorderStyle, which in turn duplicates values from com::sun::star::table::BorderLineStyle: this needs cleaning up on master" reviewers comment: "yep it sure does :-)"
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, well the meeting is at 17:30 and should be over by 18
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, running firefox tests with the volume up is always entertaining
<qengho> chrisccoulson: hah. I bet a few minutes making a dummy pulse audio sink would be worthwhile, but not as funny.
<chrisccoulson> qengho, i hope the machines that run the autopkgtest's have audio hardware :)
<chrisccoulson> it would be quite amusing for them to play random sounds every now and again
<qengho> chrisccoulson: I'll buy all your beer one day next meeting if you make the tests data sound like UPS-failure klaxons.
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> bah, after reading bugs around in different bug trackers I'm unsure about g-c-c 3.6
<seb128> the ibus stuff sucks :-(
<desrt> hater
<seb128> lol
<seb128> GNOME 3.6 has quite some keyboard related problems, I'm not sure what to do
<desrt> 3.8 looks nice?
<desrt> :D
<seb128> no
<seb128> one part of the issue is ibus "simplification"
<seb128> one other issue is GNOME design simplification
<seb128> some class of users hate not having the "by dialog layout"
<desrt> "nobody that i know *actually* speaks chinese... we can remove that option, right?"
<seb128> desrt, something like that yeah... :-(
<desrt> was the stated goal of this to force ibus to improve?
<seb128> there is a valid usecase to have e.g a command line in "us" layout and an im or document editor in "zh"
<desrt> or was it some mix of "it'll do" and "those users will get by..."
<desrt> oh
<desrt> they removed by-window layouts?
<seb128> well, the "by dialog input" was dropped because designers (aday) said "it's too complex of a model to be easily understandable"
<seb128> yes
<desrt> huh.
<desrt> i have to admit that my every attempt to use per-window keyboard layout was utterly utterly miserable
<seb128> why?
<desrt> i always lost track of what was what
<desrt> i'm probably relatively 'stupid' though
<desrt> since i never used this feature very extensively, i never got used to it
<seb128> the panel indicator tells you
<desrt> seb128: i'm not usually looking at chrome while i type
<seb128> and people who use it do it in a context which is "logic" to them
<seb128> like "command line needs to be "us" for commands"
<desrt> seb128: the other thing i found is that new windows were always getting the 'wrong' layout
<seb128> "writting im is chinese"
<desrt> seb128: did this get properly flamefested on a list yet?
<seb128> yeah, ddl
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, maxVersion for extensions isn't that imporant anymore right?
<kenvandine> it doesn't keep it from working
<seb128> grumpf
<seb128> didrocks, desrt, kenvandine, mterry, jbicha: how much would you hate staying on g-s-d and g-c-c 3.4 another cycle? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, hah
<didrocks> seb128: no strong opinion, do what is best for us IMHO :)
<kenvandine> i don't think i would care all that much actually
<mterry> seb128, seems bad
<seb128> mterry, do you volunteer to fix all the world keyboard issues? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, are there problems?
<seb128> mterry, joke aside read the backlog just before the question
 * mterry reads
<mterry> seb128, is there a path out or is gnome always going to be bad?  i mean, are we saying we're on 3.4 forever?  (We can't patch in old keyboard behavior and get all the other stuff in 3.6?)
<desrt> seb128: i just talked to aday and read the bug about the layout switcher thing
<desrt> i get the impression that feature is coming back
<seb128> mterry, there are discussions about adding back some of the features but there are at the stage where designers say "yeah, there is a problem but ENOCLUE how to design that feature or to have it look simple"
<seb128> desrt, the bug suggest that aday doesn't have a clue how that feature could work in practice yet
<mterry> seb128, is the ibus stuff integrated so tightly we could't forward-patch it into 3.6?
<seb128> mterry, well, it's quite some changes, I guess we could replace the plugins by the all codebase for the region capplet and for the g-s-d layout code
<mterry> seb128, I'm just nervous that we'd apply this same logic to stay on 3.4 while the rest of the desktop moves to 3.8 and 3.10
<mterry> seb128, (I don't care much about this particular cycle , i.e. 3.4 vs 3.6 specifically)
<mterry> just worried about future
<desrt> mterry: hah.  joke's on you.  we stay on 3.4 forever. :)
<desrt> (for everything)
<mterry> :)
<seb128> mterry, yeah, I don't like it either, our g-s-d g-c-c situation has been a pain for 3 cycles
<jbicha> desrt: the ibus situation hasn't been flamelisted in a while, we're past due ;)
<Laney> I don't really understand the problems
<Laney> a mail to -desktop might be best?
<seb128> Laney, ubuntu-desktop?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> unless you want to start another flamefest :-)
<jbicha> every other distro is basically forced into gnome 3.6 though; I don't know anyone else that will try to hold back g-c-c 3.4
<jbicha> seb128: is it really that horrible for input-method-users to do the Ctrl+Space thing or whatever whenever they want to switch input methods?
<seb128> Laney, see "Re: Better Maintenance of IBus, i.e., the Input Framework" on the list on 2012-10-17 for some of the issues discussed
<Laney> ddl?
<seb128> Laney, no, ubuntu-desktop list
<seb128> jbicha, it's rather the other way around, no distro shipped GNOME 3.6 to users yet ... f18 is delayed to january, Debian is frozen, opensuse is still on 3.4
<seb128> jbicha, and yes, having to ctrl-space every time you alt-tab sucks a lot
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> imagine you alt-tab between your code editor and an im where you chat with a friend
<seb128> code and api are in english
<seb128> the im is in chinese
<seb128> you would need to alt-tal then change layout every time
<seb128> worth if you use the mouse
<seb128> jbicha, vuntz confirms that opensuse is still on ibus 1.4 and their maintainer refuse to update
<seb128> so same story that Debian
<cyphermox> did ibus lose the per-app im context or whatever?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> that was something it did implicitly before?
<cyphermox> ah, an interesting decision
<seb128> the GNOME guys convinced one of the maintainer
<cyphermox> Laney: yeah
<Laney> and gnome grows a dep on > 1.5 I suppose
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> yes
<Laney> what's suse doing with gcc/gsc then?
<cyphermox> did we get the opinion on that from one of the interested parties? like on -devel I mean?
<desrt> it's a bad day for this conversation
<seb128> desrt, why?
<desrt> aday is sick
<desrt> i suggest shelving it for now and letting the flames fly tomorrow
<seb128> desrt, well it doesn't need a decision today and it doesn't block us to discuss our GNOME 3.6 strategy
<seb128> since 3.6 has the regression anyway
<seb128> aday will also not fix ibus which has the same issue...
<desrt> i get the feeling that if aday wanted it fixed he could get it fixed
<seb128> desrt, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210#c23 suggests it's not an easy case to design/resolve though
<ubot2> Gnome bug 684210 in Region & Language ""Separate layout per window" is missing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> seb128: exactly.
<desrt> sounds like it could use the work of .... a designer :D
<seb128> which gives me the feeling it might not be resolved this cycle
<desrt> seb128: what do you care?
<desrt> planning a backport from 3.8?
<seb128> I don't want those limitations to be released with raring
<seb128> well, that would be a way out
<desrt> seb128: i mean that you don't really care about gnome development this cycle
<seb128> I'm really trying to figure what to do
<desrt> right
<seb128> well, that's broken in 3.6
<seb128> which is why I started with "should we stay on g-s-d/g-c-c 3.4 another cycle"
<desrt> can we revert?
<desrt> maybe revert the ibus changes and patch in our own version of the UI
<seb128> we would loose the ibus integration from 3.6 ... which is what I was leaning toward doing
<desrt> or even just have a hidden gsettings flag
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I'm leaning toward something like that
<seb128> I was just wondering if there is a good reason why we need 3.6
<seb128> or if it would be easier to keep the status quo and keep using our current version
<desrt> so less discussion, more investigation :)
<seb128> well, personally I'm fine staying on 3.4
<desrt> jbicha hates you
<seb128> right, the GNOME remix is part of the issue
<seb128> I've 3.6 installed there
<seb128> I didn't see anything compelling in it
<seb128> I would have an issue with their new background panel if we didn't decide to just fork that
<desrt> ya.  that's pretty hilarious.
<desrt> "the old design is so complicated!  let's make it simple!  REALLY REALLY simple!!"
<seb128> their new mouse panel is not really nice either if you ask me
<desrt> didn't see it yet
<seb128> http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2012/08/mouse-panel.png
<seb128> it's only text and the alignments are weird
<desrt> wtf
<desrt> "test your settings" is hilarious
<desrt> this is almost a joke
<desrt> it has a picture of a cat
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> okay
<desrt> actually, it's kinda cute
 * desrt gets it now
<desrt> it's a picture of a cat and a girl holding a kite
<desrt> and it's there so that you have to scroll up to see the kite
<desrt> thus testing your scrolling settings
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it's the main screen which looks weird to me, the test screen is ok
<seb128> well, anyway I don't care much about those, that panel is not an important one and we keep our version of "background"
<desrt> if you do 5 quick clicks on the test area it says 'Five clicks, GEGL time!'
<seb128> lol
<jbicha_> seb128: but if we don't take g-c-c 3.6 then the keyboard layout "indicator" in GNOME Shell will be broken in yet another Ubuntu release, bug 1045914
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1045914 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout doesn't show in GNOME Shell session" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1045914
<desrt> seb128: told you :)
<jbicha> seb128: but if we don't take g-c-c 3.6 then the keyboard layout "indicator" in GNOME Shell will be broken in yet another Ubuntu release, bug 1045914
<jbicha> and that affects more people than just those who want to use English & Chinese at the same time
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, but better to have the keyboard indicator broken in gnome-shell than the keyboard use broken for all of Russia and China though
<seb128> well
<seb128> - it's only an indicator
<jbicha> russia uses input methods? why?
<seb128> - it's only one desktop
<seb128> jbicha, because the use a cyrilic alphabet?
<jbicha> it's also gdm, which makes it challenging to log in to a multinational computer
<jbicha> I thought ibus was mostly for those languages that have far more than 30 letters in their alphabet
<seb128> well, I'm sure we could write a shell extension that works with ibus 1.4
<seb128> jbicha, see for example bugs like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686859
<ubot2> Gnome bug 686859 in Indicator "Windows cant have keyboard set independently" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<jbicha> I much prefer g-c-c 3.6; it looks far better in GNOME than the hacked-up thing we were using in quantal
<seb128> or https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210#c31
<ubot2> Gnome bug 684210 in Region & Language ""Separate layout per window" is missing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> jbicha, in which sense? the grid because of the broken icons?
<qengho> No matter how many times I type it "raring" never looks spelled right.
<jbicha> seb128: one reason that I think that it's important for us to make it easy for people to use the latest GNOME is that it's not really very possible to influence GNOME design if we're using something that's 2 versions out of date
<jbicha> the mouse & universal access panels were redesigned in the new g-c-c
<jbicha> maybe desrt's jhbuild project will help with that a bit
<Laney> qengho: Semantic satiation. I have it with most release names ... 'precise' doesn't have any meaning for me any more
<desrt> jbicha: imho gnomebuntu should be based on jhbuild
<desrt> i continue to content that what you are attempting to do is impossible
<desrt> *contend
<jbicha> what version of gnome-user-docs do we ship if we're using mostly GNOME 3.6 except for gnome-control-center which is one of the biggest parts of the user help?
<seb128> jbicha, well, to be fair if you want to influence the design you better follow designs in the wiki before this hit real code
<seb128> because by time they are working code it's late to influence the design
<qengho> Laney: not s-s. It didn't look right the first time either!
<jbicha> desrt: I'm just trying to keep the split from getting too big
<seb128> jbicha, so, would you be happy if we do ibus 1.4 and g-s-d/g-c-c 3.6 with the keyboard stack from 3.4?
<Laney> qengho: dang then I don't know what's wrong with you. seek help!
<desrt> jbicha: i'm surprised that you still think that this is possible
<seb128> desrt, jbicha: what's the goal of gnomebuntu? having a GNOME session on top of Ubuntu following the "values" of Ubuntu (e.g stability, integration with the OS, ...) or having a crack of the day vanilla version of GNOME?
<jbicha> seb128: it would at least be better to use 85% gnome-control-center 3.6
<qengho> Laney: ah, now *those words* have reached semantic saturation for me.
<jbicha> now that gnome's released g-c-c 3.6.3 that code base won't really change
<desrt> seb128: your tone is unfair
<jbicha> seb128: I have several goals which I should write down; one of them is that I'm tired of new GNOME contributors being told that they need to run Fedora if they want to develop GNOME
<seb128> jbicha, ok, works for me ... I will drop an email to ubuntu-desktop about that and start tweaking the g-s-d/g-c-c stacks and drop the new ibus from the ppa
<seb128> desrt, sorry didn't mean it to be this way :-(
<seb128> desrt, let me rephrase
<seb128> desrt, is the goal of the remix to have the most uptodate version or to have what we think is the most usable and tested version of GNOME
<desrt> seb128: i could equally ask if the goal of gnomebuntu is to have a consistent experience following the upstream design and based on its values of simplicity and precision or if we will continue crackrock distro patching for the whims of canonical's crazy designers
<seb128> desrt, I wouldn't say jhbuild is the most usable and tested one
<jbicha> I believe running the Ubuntu development release is far safer than running rawhide and that Ubuntu can ship GNOME that's nearly equivalent with what other distros do
<desrt> seb128: jhbuild can mean many things
<desrt> seb128: the r-t uses jhbuild to build the stable releases as well
<seb128> desrt, oh, come on, jhbuild is not tested and stable
<seb128> well not as much as releases
<desrt> seb128: i say again: jhbuild can mean many things
<seb128> what do you mean by using jhbuild to build gnobuntu then?
<desrt> seb128: each gnome release is made as a set of jhbuild modulesets
<seb128> is that include getting ride of the packaging system?
<desrt> point jhbuild at those stable modulesets and you get stable gnome
<desrt> point it at git master and you get... well... git master
<desrt> shouldn't be much of a surprise?
<jbicha> I believe it's a bad idea for developers to use a different distro than the majority of users
<seb128> well still with the fluctuation of trunk in a serie
<desrt> jbicha: you could argue about if ubuntu users are really gnome users
<jbicha> desrt: Ubuntu GNOME users surely are
<seb128> desrt, well, the goal of that remix is to provide GNOME for Ubuntu users?
<desrt> sure
<jbicha> of course "GNOME" isn't clearly defined either
<desrt> jbicha: it's fairly clearly defined these days
<kenvandine> seb128, speaking of which... i am seeing GOA in unity again :)
<kenvandine> looks like the patch for OnlyShownIn got dropped?
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, I need to look at that, the filtering seems to be broken in the ppa
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> it's on my list
<seb128> my g-c-c doesn't fit vertically on screen
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> i noticed it no longer matches the empathy launcher when webaccounts is focused
<kenvandine> that is great :)
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, that was a bug in the bamf index made by the packaging, didrocks fixed it
 * kenvandine hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs kenvandine
<desrt> seb128: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/3.6.2/
<desrt> seb128: this is what i would propose we use for making gnomebuntu
<seb128> desrt, I guess I don't understand your jhbuild comment
<desrt> seb128: jhbuild is two things, right?
<seb128> why not just take GNOME 3.6.2 packages from Ubuntu+ppa
<desrt> it's a program that does building
<desrt> plus a set of modulesets
<desrt> seb128: because it's quite a lot of effort to unpatch everything?
<desrt> imho packages are a waste of time these days
<seb128> well, then it's not a distro remix anymore
<desrt> maybe it made sense when harddisks were small
<desrt> seb128: i'd agree...
<seb128> wrong channel to discuss it then? ;-)
<desrt> meh
<desrt> it goes back to the issue you were discussing
<seb128> well, you can basically take ostree for that no?
<desrt> i'm saying that spending our time deciding what we should do and taking gnomebuntu into consideration is probably not worthwhile
<jbicha> desrt: is it? why are Dictionary, Epiphany, gnome-search-tool in Core?
<desrt> jbicha: don't know/don't care?
<desrt> jbicha: refer to my comment on large harddisks: having an app that i never used installed is not hurting me
<jbicha> desrt: because GNOME isn't actually defined anywhere :)
<desrt> jbicha: it's defined rather precisely right here: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/3.6.2/
<seb128> desrt, I tend to agree with that, and I believe we will not be able to have the GNOME remix for long anyway it will come a point where GNOME will be tied enough with the init system, login manager, etc that you will need a full distro rather than a remix
<desrt> seb128: which gets me to my other point that it's not possible to have a system that can login to both unity and gnome
<seb128> right, GNOME is not a desktop anymore, it's an OS ... or getting there
<desrt> which is why we see such trouble getting a good gnome experience on ubuntu and nobody else having a unity experience in the gnome-based distros at all
<seb128> same way for Unity
<jbicha> seb128: I didn't want to start a Remix... I still blame you for the idea
<seb128> jbicha, lol
<seb128> jbicha, sorry about that ;-)
<desrt> i think everyone who is present can agree that we should blame robert_ancell
<seb128> jbicha, I still think it has a good impact on what we deliver to users, it has been leading some unpatching or cleaner handling of upstream modes
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I do blame Robert!
<seb128> hum, meeting time meanwhile
<desrt> seb128: well... this is something that we should be concerned about for its own sake
<desrt> we should not need a remix to put pressure on us to do the right thing in the first place
<jbicha> kenvandine: I think I fixed the goa-in-Unity problem; I just need to rebuild
<seb128> let's resume that discussion after the meeting
<seb128> jbicha, can you commit to the vcs? I will look at that after the meeting as well
<seb128> the geometry is wrong there as well I think
<seb128> the shell should be larger
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, chrisccoulson, didrocks, Laney, kenvandine, mlankhorst, mterry, robru, tkamppeter, attente: hey, it's meeting time
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-11-20
<didrocks> hey
<Laney> wahoo
<seb128> ^ to file if you didn't yet
<jbicha> seb128: you just need less panels in g-c-c
<mlankhorst> seb128: not now I' m.. qaing
<mlankhorst> :D
<seb128> jbicha, I think it used to be wide enough for more icons, it's 6 atm
<mlankhorst> kidding
<seb128> mlankhorst, :p
<seb128> ok, let's start the meeting
<Laney> QAing TF2?
<chrisccoulson> w00t
<mlankhorst> supreme commander forged alliance actually
 * kenvandine waves
<mlankhorst> testing the crash on nouveau that only happens after a lot of playing
<mlankhorst> >:X
<seb128> let's go through the team and have everybody write a small summary of what they are working on, comments, etc
<attente> :)
<seb128> when you are done write "..."
<seb128> if anyone has questions do "o/"
<seb128> then we can go through the team list and finish with a small comments/questions round from didrocks, me and other who have anything they want to mention
<seb128>  
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> (using the ping list order which is the order from the launchpad team)
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> heya
 * Sweetshark waves.
<desrt> Sweetshark: updates? :)
<Sweetshark> desrt: none. bring 4.0 packaging up to shape, filed all sync-requests needed.
<seb128> Sweetshark, the principle is "write a short update of what you work on, comments, etc" (please guys read what I just wrote)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ideally you come to the meeting with that prepared so we don't loose time, c.f my email from this morning
<seb128> hum, ok, Sweetshark is not uptodate
<seb128> Sweetshark, let's keep moving, will /query you after we are done
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> I'm close to getting the PPA working. There's some breakage with linux-libc-dev, but nearly done.
<qengho> I have some questions with Online Services about our contracts with google for the search page stuff.  That should be worked out soon.
<qengho> That's all for me.
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> do you have a list of the specs you are going to work on this cycle (c.f my email from this morning)
<seb128> ?
<qengho> All the work items in the cromium blueprint are mine. I dont' think anything else, for now.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> (please list the name of your blueprints in a list, e.g "desktop-r-gnome-plans-review ... ... ..."
<desrt> (now, on the other side of the browser aisle)
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
<seb128> desrt, (indeed)
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<chrisccoulson> i've been working on autopkgtest support for firefox, slowly getting through test failures (4 out of the 6 test suites we run are now zero failure)
<chrisccoulson> and there was the 17.0 release too
<qengho> desktop-r-chromiumbrowser-improvements
<qengho> mine ^
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, f17 is released?
<seb128> when do we get it? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, almost ;)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> good work on the testing ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, list of specs you work on? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements
<chrisccoulson> we should probably rename that ;)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> only spec? ;-)
<seb128> ("..." when you are done)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> Continued work on getting things bootstrapped and on the jenkins/launchpad/lillypilly/code-side for daily automated upload. Everything is ready right now but autopilot for unity. A first automated release of indicator-messages, indicator-power, indicator-sound is in progress right *now* \o/
<didrocks> specs I work on:
<rvr_> chrisccoulson: Web Apps doesn't work fine with F17
<didrocks> desktop-r-2d-test-environment
<didrocks> desktop-r-arm-reduce-footprint
<didrocks> desktop-r-gaming-platform-unity-...
<chrisccoulson> rvr_, it's way too late to be saying things like that now
<didrocks> desktop-r-ps-processes
<didrocks> desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru
<didrocks> ..
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> didrocks, thanks!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<seb128> ^ people take example, would be good if things would go this way
<seb128> e.g summary and blueprint names ready ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, crossing fingers for the first indicator autolanding round, great work!
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> I carried on working on gstreamer1.0 porting. I'd appreciate it if a few could run ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gstreamer1.0 to see if anything breaks. For example I'm suspicious that I didn't see any fallout from mixed 0.10/1.0 stacks yet.
<Laney> Stole some patches from upstream bugtrackers (e.g. rhythmbox/shotwell/banshee) so they are up there too for your music playing needs.
<kenvandine> Laney, cool!
<Laney> I hope to start uploading stuff soon - maybe next week?
<seb128> Laney, there is a banshee gst1 port?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> Laney, did you have time to do the gst/webkit cross use list?
<Laney> Oh, almost forgot. I wrote that script.
<Laney> Yeah! Here's the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1372771/
<seb128> oh, good, a small list
<seb128> like it!
<Laney> it's gst0.10/gst1.0 - thought that would be more useful than gst/webkit
<Laney> and it takes into account the PPA
<Laney> so it's "assume I uploaded the PPA to the archive right now"
<seb128> Laney, is rb trunk still using libgnome-media-profile btw? I asked Bastien about it and he said gst1.0 has an api for that and that sound-juicer is already ported and rb should do the same if not doneyet
<Laney> not sure, I will check
<Laney> I put a link to the code for that script on the pad (which I am determined to get people using :P)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, great, I will update to the ppa, would be nice to have that uploaded next week
<Laney> specs: desktop-r-gstreamer desktop-q-deprecate-language-selector desktop-r-reduce-patch-burden
<Laney> ...
<seb128> did you notice any regression or anything not working with that stack?
<seb128> I should ping again the guys who deal with the fluendo codecs...
<Laney> not really yet no, I've just been using them "as normal"
<seb128> Laney, thanks, let's see what we do with the language-selector/region capplet, it's linked to the ibus issues
<Laney> didn't deliberately try any weird files yet for example
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey
<kenvandine> continued work on moving packaging to trunk for webapps/webaccounts packages for desktop-r-ps-processes
<kenvandine> i have some updates for webapps coming this week
<kenvandine> all bug fixes that will all get SRUs too
<kenvandine> done
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, chrisccoulson: do you know what's the status of the firefox webapp extension segfaulting f17? with f17 getting closed I'm concerned it's still not fixed
<seb128> e.g I still have the launcher icons staying in my launcher when closing sites and segfaulting firefox when used in raring
<kenvandine> rvr_, ^^
<seb128> kenvandine, specs you work on this cycle otherwise?
<seb128> (let's go back to the firefox issue after the meeting)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm pretty sure that's not specific to 17. there are traces from 16.0 that look like they might be caused by the same issue
<kenvandine> desktop-r-reduced-power-ram and desktop-r-hybrid-graphics-user-experience
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it started with f17 for me, maybe I got unlucky or maybe something makes the issue more likely to be hit? anyway we should get it fixed...
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> heya
<mlankhorst> dont have spec links atm
<mlankhorst> but getting backport stack ready for precise
<rvr_> I have an issue specific to Firefox 17 with Web Apps, that Maxim says it's a bug (pagehide not being emited), bug #1076350
<mlankhorst> and getting some nouveau patches in for mesa 9.0.2 hopefully
<mlankhorst> since mesa doesn't have a nouveau stable maintainer I guess I now became it :s
<seb128> congrats? ;-)
<seb128> how is the precise backporting going?
<mlankhorst> ready soon
<seb128> do you need testers?
<mlankhorst> need tjaalton to upload x11proto, then the whole renamed stuff could be done
<mlankhorst> I might need a sru to mesa stable, to make sure the unrenamed -dev packages work with the renamed stack.
<seb128> ok
<mlankhorst> else it's quite easy to uninstall by accident
<seb128> let us know when you think you are in a state where you need extra testers
<Laney> mmm I forgot about the packageset extension - can you send a complete list to devel-permissions please?
<mlankhorst> also working some on wine, upstreaming patches there, average of 1 patch every week or 2
<Laney> wildcards don't really work
<mlankhorst> Laney: I can't upload to precise either, there's no xorg package set there :/
<seb128> ok
<mlankhorst> or quantal for that matter
<Laney> easily fixed
<mlankhorst> Laney: package set is whatever is at https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ppa currently
<Laney> that's not a list send to devel-permissions :-)
<Laney> (but let's move on)
<mlankhorst> ok!
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<mlankhorst> some linux upstreaming as well btw
<mlankhorst> and I have revived my vdpau project for fun
<mlankhorst> even have visuals!
<seb128> keeping really busy ;-)
<mlankhorst> a little
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks for the summary
<mlankhorst> np
<seb128> moving to the next one
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> yo!
<cyphermox> so I've been working on importing the packaging into upstream branches for the indicator stack, that's still in progress
<cyphermox> Uploaded a new NM, but it FTBFS in armhf due to some timeouts being too agrressive, I'll fix that today
<cyphermox> (then I'll upload nm-applet and a few other goodies)
<cyphermox> blueprints:
<cyphermox> hardware-r-kernel-delta-review: got the one ipv6 use_tempaddr patch to review / desktop-r-gnome-fallback: keyboard indicator... / desktop-r-ps-processes: indicator stack / desktop-r-connectivity-checking / desktop-r-proxy-support / desktop-r-arm-input-sensor-drivers / foundations-r-networking
<seb128> lot of blueprints
<cyphermox> usually one small thing only though :)
<seb128> cyphermox, the keyboard indicator might be work for next cycle, it seems like we might stay on the pre-ibus g-s-d keyboard stack
<cyphermox> oh, kyeboard is obvisouly kinda blocked yeah
<cyphermox> sure.
<seb128> cyphermox, don't forget to land evolution-indicator back ;-)
<cyphermox> I'm waiting for a design from mpt about this anyway
<cyphermox> yeah, this will happen this week, just waiting a few more days to merge a branch
<seb128> cool
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> there is actually a evolution-indicator in NEW
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> from you?
 * mpt hasn't forgotten
 * kenvandine hugs cyphermox
<seb128> mpt, hey ;-)
<cyphermox> err, yeah, unless it's been nakÃ©d
<cyphermox> *nak'ed
<kenvandine> i've missed evolution-indicator
<seb128> cyphermox, just asking, I didn't check ;-)
<cyphermox> me too ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<seb128> let's keep moving
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> I've been working on unity component build modernization, splitting out the Appearance panel, and have started looking into writing a library to let contained apps prompt the user for access to a file outside the container (early design thoughts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mterry/Containment ).
<mterry> For specs, I'm overlooking:
<mterry> desktop-r-unity-greeter
<mterry> desktop-r-update-manager
<mterry> (though both are relatively low priority compared to the other work I'm doing from blueprints I don't own)
<mterry> EOL
<seb128> mterry, thanks!
<seb128> (another efficient summary ;-)
<seb128> no comment from me, thanks for the g-c-c appareance panel ;-)
<seb128> next
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<mterry> thoughts are welcome on containment
<seb128> mterry, I've opened a tab on the wiki, will read it later and comment ;-)
<seb128> no tkamppeter?
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> hi
<attente> i still haven't finished the menu module
<attente> what's still missing:
<attente> doesn't work at all for apps using GtkUIManager for menu construction
<attente> doesn't work with GtkTearoffMenuItems properly
<attente> currently working on making the action group work properly
<attente> desktop-r-reduce-patch-burden
<seb128> ok
<seb128> keep the good work on the menu stuff and don't worry about it taking time it was expected, it's quite some work
<attente> thanks seb128
<attente> oh right
<attente> ...
<seb128> I still need to find you some bugs as well in case you get sick of doing menus only ;-)
<seb128> thanks attente
<attente> i tried to look at some but didn't have much luck reproducing
<seb128> did I forgot anyone?
<seb128> so me: keep Debian merges and some desktop updates, looked at the new ibus and g-s-d/g-c-c stack for some days, it's a bit tricky (cf discussion on the channel earlier), I will follow up on the list after the meeting, blueprint reviews
<seb128> specs: desktop-r-gnome-fallback desktop-r-gnome-plans-review desktop-r-reduced-power-ram desktop-r-ubuntu-system-services
<seb128> I plan to land the g-s-d/g-c-c 3.6 stack this week, help a bit on gst1.0 if needed and then switch to ram/performances work
<seb128> ...
<seb128> that's it from me
<seb128> reminder: check that your blueprint show on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/canonical-desktop-team.html
<seb128> didrocks, did you have any extra comment/status update from the ps integration team side?
<didrocks> sure, just one thing
<didrocks> So, as you saw, we are really closed to have autolanding ready now (working on a funny thing with jenkins right now, last gate before activating those for the 3 projects I mentionned).
<didrocks> mterry did the whole unity stack and it's ready! \o/
<didrocks> cyphermox, ken, robru: how close are we to have all the other stacks bootstrapped and prepared? I wish we can have the whole indicator and webcred stacks automated this week.
<cyphermox> didrocks: mine i'd say is about 60%, but i should be done by the end of the week yes
<Laney> will you be autolanding into a ppa first or is 'ready' ready for the archive?
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, please keep me posted. I can review/approve the branch in my morning :)
<didrocks> Laney: archive
<Laney> :O
<didrocks> Laney: it's already in a ppa
<cyphermox> didrocks: indicator-sync, indicator-printers and ido have merge requests pendingb
<didrocks> cyphermox: from today I guess? (I'm in a hangout for quite some time, didn't look yet ;))
<didrocks> awesome news :-)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: I noticed telepathy indicator is under your name, would it make sense to move it to ~indicator-applet-developers too?
<kenvandine> it isn't an indicator itself
<cyphermox> didrocks: yeah did those earlier, I had some issues with indicator-printers
<kenvandine> it's a service that runs that uses the indicator
<didrocks> cyphermox: excellent, I'll review them probably tomorrow morning :)
<cyphermox> kenvandine: right, but should we keep it too with autolanding, given that it's in the /ubuntu-menu-bar project ? :)
<kenvandine> i don't mind :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: if you can concentrate on the webcred stack, that would be awesome as it's the one we can ship :)
<kenvandine> indeed
<cyphermox> yeah I'll take care of telepathy-indicator myself at the end or something
<kenvandine> cyphermox, thanks
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox, kenvandine :)
<didrocks> ..
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine, cyphermox: thanks
<Sweetshark> seb128: update waiting in my vim buffer, should i quickly dump it here?
<seb128> Sweetshark, yes please
<Sweetshark> seb128: here comes my update
<Sweetshark> desktop-r-libreoffice-packaging:
<Sweetshark> -- upstreamed of unity menus patch: completed
<Sweetshark> -- upstreamed of session installer patch: completed
<Sweetshark> -- removal of old lo-menubar implementation upstream: completed
<Sweetshark> -- collected all needed dep updates and syncs: completed
<Sweetshark> -- fix get-orig-source: inprogress https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/1088/
<Sweetshark> desktop-r-improve-print-dialogs
<Sweetshark> -- checked for using the native gtk dialog: completed -- not there yet, see: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/minutes-of-ESC-call-td4018786.html
<Sweetshark> upstream marketing woes (happening RIGHT NOW at the beginning of the call):
<Sweetshark> -- http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Freiburg-wechselt-zurueck-zu-MS-Office-1753751.html city of freiburg decides to go back to MSO, but the fight is not over yet
<Sweetshark> -- last item (and the fact that I am in a advisory board call right now) is the reason for me being somewhat distracted.
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, thanks for the update, good luck for your board call
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it from me? anyone having another comment?
 * mterry goes and eats leftover pad thai
<robru> good morning all ;-)
<tkamppeter> seb128, still there?
<kenvandine> robru, tkamppeter: you guys missed the meeting :)
<Chucrute301> Hi guys
<robru> funny, tkamppeter and I are the only ones who added items to the wiki ;-)
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, yes
<Chucrute301> What is better guys, BK or MC ?
<seb128> robru, hey ... you missed the meeting!
<robru> seb128, sorry.
<desrt> Chucrute301: burger king or mcdonalds?  i'd avoid both...
<tkamppeter> seb128, You asked me for something.
<seb128> robru, no worry but try to be there next week ... did you have anything you wanted to discuss or mention?
<seb128> tkamppeter, we were having the team meeting and going through the team for summary of what everyone is doing, it was your turn
<robru> seb128, not really... package inlining work is ongoing. there were a few hiccups with friends-service development last week that required attention and distracted me from the packaging stuff though.
<robru> seb128, but this week is looking good for packaging.
<seb128> robru, ok, good
<tkamppeter> seb128, sorry, the whole last cycle there was no meeting.
<seb128> tkamppeter, yeah, and we discussed that at UDS and decided to restore those, cf my email reminders from last week and this week
<tkamppeter> seb128, and on the wiki page there was, as ususal, nothing filled in in the agenda section. So I have simply made my news entries.
<mpt> mterry, I tried to review <https://code.launchpad.net/~evfool/update-manager/lp1081099/+merge/135167> but I think Ubuntu is ignoring the .ui file from the branch and using the OS one.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, well in addition of the wiki we do a quick IRC round of summaries so everybody is online at the same time and we can do comments, etc
<seb128> tkamppeter, try to be there for the meeting next week please
<mterry> mpt, oh, I think you have to pass --datadir=./data or something to use the local ones
<tkamppeter> seb128, I was mostly working on color-management-related stuff for printing.
<seb128> mpt, sudo cp data/gtkbuilder/UpdateManager.ui /usr/share/update-manager/gtkbuilder/UpdateManager.ui
<seb128> otherwise
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok
<tkamppeter> seb128, sorry, I will be there from next week on.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<robru> seb128, what time does the meeting officially start?
<mpt> seb128, ah, right, sorry, I didn't think I'd ever need that trick again so I didn't copy it down last time you told me. :-)
<seb128> robru, 16:30utc
<robru> seb128, thx
<seb128> mpt, well, it's basically "dpkg -S <filename.ui>" and sudo cp the local version over the system one
<didrocks> Laney: I saw that you had an password issue with [10:46] <Laney> Please set a password for your new keyring:
<didrocks> in a lxc container
<didrocks> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/10/22/%23ubuntu-motu.txt
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> did you find any workaround to not have to set this one?
<Laney> no I didn't yet, and it's very annoying
<didrocks> We have the issue with bzr lp-propose on a server
<Laney> you can set credentials_file when you login
<Laney> then you dont need a password at all
<didrocks> yeah, meaning changing bzr in this case
<Laney> dunno how you do that in bzr though ...
<didrocks> weird that other bzr operation are not affected
<didrocks> like bzr push/pull/branch
<Laney> they probably don't need to use the LP API, at least not as your user
<Laney> lp-propose does though
<didrocks> yeah, probably
<Laney> geser was affected by that bug too btw
<didrocks> I wonder why bzr launchpad-login <foo> doesn't use it
 * didrocks waves good evening
<robru> am I the only one currently unable to push to launchpad?
<robru> actually I can't branch either... it was working up until about half an hour ago...
<sarnold> robru: others have complained, it's under investigation
<TheMuso> seb128: when you get a minute, could you please accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures as a goal for raring?
<TheMuso> Its been approved and proposed for raring as a goal.
<TheMuso> ...or is anybody else able to approve raring as a goal for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures?
<TheMuso> Its been approved and proposed for raring as a goal.
<TheMuso> seb128: when you get a minute, could you please accept https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-accessibility-touch-gestures as a goal for raring?
<seb128> TheMuso, hey, ok, done
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<seb128> yw
<jbicha> desrt: how is your jhbuild magic coming along?
<desrt> does anyone know what this make-dsfg thing is all about?
<desrt> Laney: ?
<desrt> *dfsg
<kenvandine> debian free software guidelines
<kenvandine> desrt, i think
<desrt> yes.  i know that
<kenvandine> not sure what make-fsfg is though
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> dfsg
<desrt> i'm assuming it's because debian has some trouble with the licence of the upstream version and had to do something about that
<kenvandine> yeah
 * desrt is just wondering what the issue is
<robert_ancell> mfisch,
<robert_ancell> mfisch, did you write the patch in bug 978428
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 978428 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter default selected session icon (ubuntu) does not reflect the default that is in lightdm" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978428
<mfisch> robert_ancell: looking
<Sarvatt> desrt: source package copyright says the docs were just removed in it because of licensing issues, http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#Licenses_that_are_DFSG-incompatible
<desrt> ah.  GFDL invariant woes?
<Sarvatt> yep
<desrt> lame :)
<Chucrute301> Desrt
<Chucrute301> You really dont eat BK?
<desrt> Chucrute301: i'm a harvey's man
<mfisch> robert_ancell: my answer is "maybe", still looking
<mfisch> robert_ancell: I think I sent some code to mterry, but I can't find it right now
<robert_ancell> mfisch, oh I found it on trunk. It's attributed to mterry so i'll assume he wrote it
<robert_ancell> I'm applying all the u-g patches to the 0.2 branch so we can drop all the patches from the package
<mterry> robert_ancell, I think maybe I adapted a patch?
<mfisch> robert_ancell: I kno we discussed it
<Chucrute301> Where is cimi?
<desrt> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/make-dfsg/+bug/1081328
<desrt> Chucrute301: either somewhere in london or italy, i'd imagine
<robert_ancell> mterry, debian/patches/fix-focus.patch is yours right?
<mterry> robert_ancell, yeah I believe
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi Robert, wondering if you have a comment on the idea in the MP for a solution of bug #952185.
<robert_ancell> bug 952185
<robert_ancell> hmm, where is the bugbot?
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Launchpad seems to be sleeping. :(
<robert_ancell> oh, that nasty one :)
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, yes, that sounds like the only appropriate solution (other than putting the environment in a system location)
<robert_ancell> bug 952185
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Yeah, I noticed that gdm suffers from the same problem, so fixing both in pam feels right. Do you possibly have time to sponsor it?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 952185 in pam (Ubuntu) "~/.pam_environment not parsed when HOME is encrypted" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/952185
<robert_ancell> ubot2, been slacking off?
<ubot2> robert_ancell: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<jbicha> ubot2: don't worry, we don't think that :)
<ubot2> jbicha: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<GunnarHj> :)
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, It really needs a review by cjwatson or slangesek - they're in #ubuntu-deve
<robert_ancell> l
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok, then I'll ask one of them. Thanks!
<robert_ancell> jbicha, are you ok with gnome 3.8 packages going into the PPA?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I think we should have a separate experimental ppa
<robert_ancell> jbicha, ok
<jbicha> I get a bit nervous trying to backport a newer GNOME stack to an older Ubuntu release, even though I guess ricotz has been doing it for a while
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I mean 3.8 into raring
<jbicha> same thing
<jbicha> also I think we'd have a better chance of getting permission from the Release Team to ship a PPA if that PPA has a history of being "safe"
<maxiaojun> hi
<maxiaojun> i'm thinking of recording a video to show why ibus indicator need some new design
<maxiaojun> i'm on nokia n9 now
<maxiaojun> jbicha arounx?
<maxiaojun> around?
<jbicha> maxiaojun: sure, what's up?
<maxiaojun> do you need a video for ibus indicator concern i have
<jbicha> a bug report would probably be sufficient, but no one's stopping you from making a video if you want ;)
<maxiaojun> bug report probably existed for long
<RAOF> Hello everyone! This is your weekly opportunity to tell me what SRUs you've got in the Precise and Quantal queues are urgent, so I process them first!
<mfisch> robert_ancell: a quick analysis shows that disabling the mem lock doesn't do anything, and it's only using 193k of memory either way
<mfisch> robert_ancell: not sure where the notes from that BP I saw came from that claimed otherwise
 * mfisch realizes that robert_ancell is off having whatever foods people eat down there for lunch
<desrt> mfisch: kangaroo tails and kiwis (not the fruit)
<mfisch> I wasn't even sure they had roos in .nz
<mfisch> maybe lamb in kiwi fruit sauce?
<desrt> mfisch: they're imported
<mfisch> desrt: good point, they do have boats
<mfisch> desrt: hey, do you have a good doc or example package that does a gconf2 default for a setting?  I only found some sparse documentation today
 * desrt doesn't know a lot about gconf
<jbicha> mfisch: maybe man dh_gconf will help you?
<robert_ancell> mfisch, ok perhaps they were just blaming me because I wasn't there
 * robert_ancell looks sideways at desrt
<desrt> robert_ancell: can you help me with making a gdm greeter?
<mfisch> jbicha: strangely, that's exactly what I needed
<robert_ancell> desrt, sure
<desrt> okay.  but after i get back from dinner
<desrt> yum.  kiwi eggs.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-21
<mfisch> robert_ancell: do you know why there are no armhf ddebs for lightdm after 1.2.1?
<mfisch> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/lightdm/
<robert_ancell> mfisch, no, they're done server side though
<mfisch> I wonder if xnox knows
<mfisch> randomly picking another one, lsof, and no armhf except for from 2010
<bryce> RAOF, I emailed you the list of experimental/update drivers awaiting sru processing.  all should be basically wave-thru's, and all are relatively urgent due to valve.
<RAOF> bryce: Excellent, thanks. The decaying husks at the end of the processing queue were getting depressing :)
<bryce> RAOF, there are also several xserver srus that have been waiting a while.  But less urgent.
<GunnarHj> RAOF: Hi Chris! Since you asked, I'd say that the mail-notification item in the Quantal queue is urgent, since many users are disinclined to use the app without SSL working.
<maxiaojun> can i use tray icon in 12.10 gnome fallback?
<maxiaojun> i'm trying to show how upstream ibus 1.4 tray icon work
<jbicha> maxiaojun: you may need to add the system tray to the panel, and the ibus packaging may disable the ibus tray icon
<maxiaojun> i'm using upstream tarball directly, thank you for your advice, let me check the panel
<maxiaojun> right-click the panel has no action, it's not gnome 2 :-(
<jbicha> maxiaojun: you need to hold down the Alt key (maybe Super+Alt) while right-clicking the panel
<maxiaojun> thank you very much
<xnox> mfisch: hmm?
<mfisch> xnox: the armhf ddebs seem to be out of date
<mfisch> xnox: for example, the ones for lightdm are a couple revs old: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/l/lightdm/
<xnox> From the build log: dpkg-deb: building package `lightdm-dbgsym' in `../lightdm-dbgsym_1.4.0-0ubuntu2_armhf.ddeb'
<xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/119223399/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armhf.lightdm_1.4.0-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<xnox> so they were built.
<mfisch> yes, there is a mystery here
<xnox> pitti: why did lightdm-dbsym package from ^^^ buildlog did not get uploaded / published on ddebs?!
<mfisch> lsof, randomly picked, has similar
<maxiaojun> done video demo vanilla ibus: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45139465/vanilla-ibus.ogv
<maxiaojun> i demoed two mode, the first mode don't work in ibus indicator, second mode (most user including me currently using) is dropped in 1.4.99+
<micahg> jbicha: shipping a PPA is a TB problem, not a release team problem
<hyperair> RAOF: i think i have one in queue about libgpod.
<maxiaojun> micahg: what is TB sorry?
<micahg> maxiaojun: Tech Board
<jbicha> maxiaojun: a bug report would have been a lot clearer; after watching your screencast I still don't understand what feature the indicator is missing
<maxiaojun> you can try indicator if you have a box nearby
<maxiaojun> i can record another video for indicator case, if you need
<jbicha> maxiaojun: I don't know if I need another video, could you just explain what the indicator can't do?
<maxiaojun> you cannot see the input method context menu, if you are using indicator and select 'Embedded in menu' (default) in ibus-setup
<jbicha> what context menu can't you see? and which specific input method are you using?
<maxiaojun> can you recognize that i'm using ibus-pinyin in the video?
<sarnold> maxiaojun: perhaps you'd be better served by taking screenshots of what specifically you like (or dislike?), draw arrows pointing to something specific, and explain what about that thing you like or dislike
<sarnold> maxiaojun: I just spent 3:24 watching someone typing on their machine without any idea why I watched it or what I was supposed to notice. :)
<maxiaojun> please wait for my next video, i'm sorry that i'm not savvy in video tutorial business
<sarnold> it _was_ fun seeing how ideograms were presented when the latin equivs were presented, it seems a _lot_ nicer than the old wapros I used to use, but I couldn't tell if you liked or disliked them. :) hehe
<jbicha> maxiaojun: ok, I think I finally understand what you're saying
<sarnold> maxiaojun: the nice thing with screenshots + text is that it can be read in seconds, not watched in minutes.. hehe.
<jbicha> ibus-pinyin has its own preferences menu (not even just its own preferences button) which isn't exposed in Unity unless you change that option to "Always"
<sarnold> the text to describe the pictures wasn't there in the 'always' mode -- is _that_ what was missing?
<jbicha> anyway, if you can file a bug or find an already reported bug we can use that for tracking this release cycle
<maxiaojun> When Active is very similar to Always (both dropped in 1.4.99+), but some people find that panel may disappear using 'When Active'
<maxiaojun> jbicha: i will do that
<maxiaojun> sarnold: i guess you don't understand the whole thing yet, i'm sorry for my poor video, :-(
<sarnold> maxiaojun: that's why I'd like screenshots with the important bits highlighted :D
<maxiaojun> my machine is encoding my second video, hopefully you can understand this time
<sarnold> thanks :)
<maxiaojun> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45139465/ibus-indicator.ogv
<jbicha> I agree with sarnold, a few screenshots and some text explanation would be easier to understand
<maxiaojun> let me do that later
<sarnold> maxiaojun: definitely better, I think I almost get it. :)
<maxiaojun> ok, i'd leave my computer a while and find a time to report/reuse bug report later
<sarnold> have fun! :)
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, still downloading from steam?
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: heh, finally finished!
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, and then the transformed blew up? Did you overload it ;P
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: :) theyt just can't handle the kind of speeds I need ;) Or bandwidth! the conversation at telstra when I said I needed more than 50g a month...classic
<robert_ancell> they just doubled our cap to 100G. No more problems round here
 * RAOF sometimes hits the throttling at 150G here; and the Internode Ubuntu mirror doesn't count against that!
<smspillaz> how do you gusy even hit your bandwidth caps ...
<smspillaz> *guys
 * smspillaz is on 50/50 and never goes above 10
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Afaik thats the problem with business connections, if you were on a consumer connection you would have more options.
<TheMuso> Quota wise at least.
<jasoncwarner_> smspillaz...NFL games. I stream those things after the kids  go to bed. Gotta keep up with my football ;)
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso: yeah, I heard that as well, though the only real connection I have here is business. I already looked in Victoria. Connections there are much better than where I am here. Looking forward to those 50-100meg down and 20 meg up connections again ;)
<jasoncwarner_> the world changed in the 2 years I was here. town had just gotten 3g when I moved in...seems rest of the world went all 4g and LTE on me ;) I won't know what to do with all that speed!
<duflu> ROAF: Isn't internode and iinet one in the same now? And the iiNet Ubuntu mirror is in the iiNet freezone
<duflu> ROAF: Sorry, misinterpreted your comment. Ignore that
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: The downside of living in regional Australia.
<TheMuso> Or should I say, one of the downsides.
 * ajmitch accidentally left debmirror running during the day, currently got 2.5GB left until he hits cap
<Chucrute301> In australia
<Chucrute301> Have much insects?
<ajmitch> not many, the snakes & dropbears eat most of them
<Chucrute301> :)
<Chucrute301> Ow snakes?
<TheMuso> ajmitch: you... you... You know what I'm talking about.
<pitti> xnox: the ddeb generation process unfortunately fails over every so often :-( it's a shared machine with sometimes a high load, sometimes the apache servers on the buildds are broken, etc.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<smspillaz> morning didrocks :)
<didrocks> hey smspillaz, how are you? ;)
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<smspillaz> good good. I've finally finished my exams, so I'm just chilling out
<didrocks> oh excellent! enjoy some quiet time :)
<smspillaz> yeah :) you'll see me around
<didrocks> great!
<BigWhale> hello didrocks!
<BigWhale> Will Python3 come on the installation CD?
<BigWhale> in 13.04?
<didrocks> BigWhale: it's already on the CD
<BigWhale> didrocks, excellent!
<BigWhale> I guess I'll jump the ship and make Kazam python3 only ...
<didrocks> BigWhale: sounds good! Good luck :)
<BigWhale> didrocks, yeah, I ported it last week, so now it needs some testing.
<BigWhale> Hmm, where can I check what goes on CD?
<didrocks> BigWhale: look at the manifest: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/raring-desktop-amd64.manifest
<didrocks> those are the packages installed on the live system
<BigWhale> python3-xdg is missing
<BigWhale> :'(
<BigWhale> I'll have to add this to the dependencies
<mhr3> pitti, ping?
<pitti> hey mhr3
<mhr3> pitti, morning, i'm having an odd issue with pygi, see http://paste.ubuntu.com/1372808/
<mhr3> any ideas why the column param isn't properly "out"?
<mhr3> (tried with both caller- and callee-allocates, neither works)
<pitti> mhr3: no off-hand idea, no; the gir looks fine to me
 * pitti looks for a similar case
<mhr3> maybe the tuple returns are broken for virtual methods?
<pitti> it's not even getting that far
<pitti> it's already breaking in the marshalling to C, i. e. before even calling the method
<mhr3> i meant that perhaps because it's a virtual method and not a normal one breaks the marshalling
<pitti> right, that could be the difference
<pitti> in the tests we have plenty of caller-allocates="0" transfer-ownership="full" (out) int arguments
<pitti> and we also have caller-allocates="1" / transfer none args
<pitti> (out args, I mean)
<mhr3> virtuals?
<pitti> so at first sight it looks like the virtuals indeed
 * mhr3 would like a fix in R :)
<pitti> yep, I can work on that
<pitti> would you mind filing a bug about it?
<mhr3> awesome, thx
<mhr3> sure
<pitti> we also already have and call a virtual-method method_int8_out() with a caller-allocates="0"/transfer-ownership="full", that works as well
<pitti> so it shouldn't be too hard to fix
<mhr3> the caller-allocates=1 was a test, =0 was default
<pitti> right, so if it's not that, I'll try some other variations
<mhr3> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688783
<ubot2> Gnome bug 688783 in general "Marshalling of out parameters not working properly" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> mhr3: thanks
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
<xnox> pitti: =( about ddebs
<Sweetshark> hrhr, the server of the pirate pary freiburg was burned down by their PR wrt to migrating away from openoffice
<Tm_T> to?
<Sweetshark> Tm_T: s/to//
<Sweetshark> Tm_T: they had to backup on pastebin
<Laney> somebody burned down a server because they wanted to stop using openoffice?
<Tm_T> migrating from openoffice to ...
<gatox> back
<bdrung> hi, what's will happen to gnome classic in ubuntu when upstream drops it?
<Sweetshark> cyphermox: are there any common pitfalls for a application in userspace wrt suspend/resume with bluetooth?\
<seb128> bdrung, the code will not go away, it basically means GNOME stop adding feature there or maintaining it
<seb128> bdrung, so it will stay the way it is, or improve through new upstream if somebody out of GNOME itself steps up to do the work
<bdrung> seb128: so we will keep it in ubuntu and it will be an option in 14.04
<pitti> mhr3: hm, I have some trouble with reproducing this; I followed up in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688783
<ubot2> Gnome bug 688783 in general "Marshalling of out parameters not working properly" [Normal,Needinfo]
<mhr3> pitti, it's in lp:~mhr3/dee/easy-hints
<mhr3> pitti, perhaps try with guint param instead of gint8? otherwise i have no idea why it'd work in tests for not in dee
<mhr3> but not in dee*
<pitti> mhr3: currently looking at it
<pitti> mhr3: the annotations as they are in the branch are wrong anyway, but I'll play with some variations
<pitti> now I need to find a minimal piece of code which can call this
<pitti> do you have one?
<seb128> bdrung, dunno what will be Ubuntu in 3 cycles so it's hard to say, but no reason to drop it as long as it keeps working
<seb128> bdrung, so likely it will still be an option but who knows, xorg might be replaced by wayland and gnome-panel not working with it at some point or similar
<mhr3> pitti, this should do - http://paste.ubuntu.com/1374697/
<seb128> bdrung, just making that one up, bottom line is "hard to say what will happen over 3 cycles"
<bdrung> okay, but "keeping it as long as possible" is better than just dropping it in the next release :)
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> mhr3: ah, get it, thanks
<mhr3> pitti, should have been get_field_schema, but i guess you noticed :)
<pitti> mhr3: as it doesn't even get that far, it doesn't matter yet :)
<pitti> actually
 * mhr3 should have tried it first :)
<pitti> TypeError: set_schema_full() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
<pitti>     m.set_schema("s", "u", "a{sv}")
<pitti> this is even before
<mhr3> pitti, it's not using the overrides from the branch
<pitti> no, it's not
<mhr3> then use set_schema_full(["s", "u", "a{sv}"])
<mhr3> same for set_column_names
<pitti> mhr3: hmm: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1374709/
<mhr3> wrong .so
<pitti> ah
<pitti> ok, got it
<pitti> mhr3: thanks, I'll take it from here (after lunch)
<mhr3> pitti, glad you're able to rep now ;)
<sabdfI> Hi guys :)
<pitti> hey sabdfI, how are you?
<Chucrute301> Iam me
<Chucrute301> :)
<sabdfI> Sabdfl is mark ?
<AlanBell> sabdfI: of course
<xnox> note the "I" instead of "l"
<sabdfI> Yeap
<AlanBell> much better, lets avoid confusion :)
<Chucrute301> :)
<Chucrute301> Finally :)
<Chucrute301> I finished my quantal download:)
<chrisccoulson> w00t http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/revision/1420 \o/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, wouhouh, great stuff
<pitti> chrisccoulson: wow!
<micahg> chrisccoulson: that's awesome, I'm hoping we can do the same for Thunderbird, I'll also try to add some of those disabled tests to QRT at some point so we get some coverage
<pitti> mhr3: hah! now, that took me way longer than it ought to have to figure out what's wrong in your branch :)
<mhr3> pitti, so what is/was it
<mhr3> ?
<pitti> mhr3: I followed up on the bug
<mhr3> oh ffs
<mhr3> being this sensitive to param names is counterproductive
<sabdflI> :)
<sabdfI> :)
<desrt> sabdfI: good morning
<cyphermox> Sweetshark: I'm not sure what pitfalls you're expecting. one thing that comes to mind would be delay in the device being ready after resume, or broken drivers failing to set the device back in the right mode
<Sweetshark> cyphermox: /win 19
<Sweetshark> ups
<cyphermox> really? :)
<mterry> pitti, I'm looking into using python3-dbusmock, and I'm curious...  once I set up a mock, what's the best way to validate that the arguments the mock receives are the expected ones?  (the code string dbusmock lets me provide in AddMethod can't seem to percolate up an exception)
<GunnarHj> charles: are you there?
<jbicha> seb128: ok I think we can push g-c-c/g-s-d 3.6 with --disable-ibus and switch with ibus 1.4 for now
<seb128> jbicha, hey, great, did you see that I upload g-s-d 3.6 to raring?
<jbicha> oh you did?
<seb128> jbicha, but I went for the "revert keyboard code to 3.4" patch way rather
<seb128> which
<seb128> - let us our keyboard indicator (until the new one is written)
<seb128> - let us the "layout per win" option
<seb128> - don't require ibus 1.5
<seb128> the --disable-ibus would have broke the first 2 items
<jbicha> ok I used rev. 370 of the g-s-d branch but with --disable-ibus and separate-layout-per-window seems to work ok
<seb128> well, they dropped the ui in g-c-c no?
<seb128> we can still revisit that part in a later update
<seb128> but at least we don't regress on the indicator meanwhile
<seb128> it was the safest bet
<jbicha> yeah that's probably fine for now
<seb128> looking at g-c-c atm
<jbicha> there is still an input sources tab in g-c-c but it doesn't set ibus methods, just alternate keyboard layouts
<jbicha> seb128: can I push g-c-c then?
<seb128> jbicha, once I get the patch to apply and build sure ;-)
<seb128> working on it atm
<Laney> cool stuff!
<jbicha> seb128: what patch is that?
<seb128> jbicha, reverting the keyboard stuff to 3.4 so it works with g-s-d
<seb128> it wouldn't work if the control center was writing the new keys and gsd loading the old ones
<seb128> it's also temporary but it's the easiest way to get g-c-c 3.6 in
<seb128> that narrows the problem space to keyboard then
<jbicha> seb128: ah, I just pushed rev. 513 so you'll need to rebase then
<seb128> ok
<seb128> jbicha, thanks
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Saw your discussion; then there is no reason to postpone language-selector => g-c-c, right?
<seb128> cyphermox, find . -name <...> -delete btw
<seb128> rather than -exec rm ...
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: good catch, not a biggie, but would be nicer to avoid spawning it in the future
<seb128> GunnarHj, what do you mean "postpone"? so far we stay on the GNOME 3.4 stack again so it's we might keep language-selector for another cycle
<sarnold> seb128: .. how long has -delete been there? :)
<seb128> sarnold, years?
<sarnold> seb128: cool. :)
<seb128> I've been using it for years at least
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thought you just said that g-c-c 3.6 without ibus support is about to be uploaded to raring. Maybe I misunderstood.
<seb128> GunnarHj, that's what I said
<seb128> GunnarHj, there are issues with the new ibus stack, cf my email on the ubuntu-desktop mailing list for details
<seb128> GunnarHj, but if we roll back that code we need to roll back the region capplet updates as well ... which is what we wanted to replace language-selector with
<seb128> GunnarHj, so we might end up not replacing it this cycle
<seb128> GunnarHj, does that make sense?
<jbicha> seb128: the only reason you need to rollback the keyboard/region stuff is for the keyboard indicator rewrite, right?
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yes, I've read that. Might make sense... But what exactly is missing in the 3.4 code that would have been available in 3.6?
<cyphermox> seb128: ah, right
<seb128> GunnarHj, we need to build support for language pack there and some other improvement and we don't want to do it on an outdate codebase
<seb128> jbicha, the main reason to roll back so far is my lack of understand of what issue will come with upgrading those
<seb128> understanding*
<jbicha> as gnome 3.4 didn't have any ibus integration either
<seb128> jbicha, so I want to get it 3.6 out this week and I do what is easiest for that (it also has the benefit to keep the indicator)
<seb128> jbicha, well, I'm more concerned about stuff like the "layout per window"
<GunnarHj> seb128: Aha, that does make sense to me. The install/remove of languages is one of the things pending, I see.
<seb128> jbicha, they also dropped the "options" from keyboard layout to add an ui for some specific ones, dunno if that works when ibus is turned off
<seb128> GunnarHj, right
<seb128> jbicha, as said it's mostly me taking the easiest path, I need to have an another look at what is available and missing exactly if we take 3.6 and turn off the ibus code
<seb128> jbicha, but I don't want to block the updates on that
<seb128> jbicha, I'm also reluctant to write a new indicator based on the "without ibus" stack if we go with ibus soon
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: In any case we can start preparing l-s => region. For instance replacing im-switch with im-config is desirable.
<GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Can't help feeling that the ibus support they plan will have issues in the beginning. No need to hurry IMHO.
<seb128> GunnarHj, right, that's why we are somewhat changing plan, it has issues ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: And it's not live yet, right?
<seb128> GunnarHj, GNOME 3.6? it is
<seb128> we didn't include that piece of code in ubuntu yet though
<GunnarHj> seb128: I mean in one of the larger distros.
<seb128> no
<seb128> opensuse next release is in march and they don't have the new ibus yet and fedora18 will release in january
<jbicha> GunnarHj: it looks like im-config needs an MIR, have you ever done one of those?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: No, I don't even remember what MIR stands for. :(
<jbicha> GunnarHj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Yeah, I just looked it up too.
<seb128> didrocks, is that ok if I do an unity upload to recommends g-c-c-unity?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Will read up on it. I'd like to work on that switch. It requires some l-s changes that we need to do in any case, since l-s needs to be left to Lubuntu and Xubuntu in a usable state.
<didrocks> seb128: sure, but please propose a MR as well
<seb128> didrocks, will do
<didrocks> including your changes and changelog
<didrocks> thanks
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> well it might be tomorrow
<seb128> still some issues with g-c-c
<bizhanMona> Hi I am using Ubuntu 12.10. I like to create a stand alone grub, i.e. a usb storage disk with only Grub content. And install the Ubuntu on a different storage device. Is this possible?thx
<mlankhorst> sounds like you want /boot mounted to that usb disk..
<bizhanMona> yes that is what I want.
<mlankhorst> probably need to do some custom partition,ing
<bizhanMona> any idea please???
<sarnold> hrm, you should be able to place grub on one device, /boot on a second device, rootfs on a third device...
<sarnold> .. and if your /boot and rootfs on are the same device, that just saves some hassle :) hehe
 * didrocks waves good evening
<cyphermox> seb128: how would I go about having gtk2/gtk3 builds with dh9? do you have an example package that does this?
<seb128> cyphermox, libxml2
<cyphermox> ah, thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, you basically override the targets to configure, build, install
<seb128> so you can do
<seb128> cd gtk2; ../configure --enable-gtk2
<seb128> cd gtk3; ../configure --enable-gtk3
<seb128> same for build and install
<seb128> in fact libxml2 doesn't do exactly that
<cyphermox> well, I understand the idea though with TARGETS=...
<seb128> cyphermox, http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2012/06/msg00598.html
<cyphermox> seb128: thanks. I think I mostly got it, but using logic similar to libxml2...
<seb128> cyphermox, yw!
<cyphermox> because I can easily just call the dh_auto_* most cases, just need to pass parameters
<cyphermox> finishing up with the install that is a bit more tricky now...
<cyphermox> fwiw, that was about updating the packaging for libdbusmenu, to go with the indicators
<mterry> Is anyone familiar with passing file descriptors over dbus?  Apparently it has support for it, but I'm not sure how it is supposed to work
<mdeslaur> mterry: I don't think you can pass one directly, it needs to get passed using a socket
<seb128> mterry, try asking desrt or davidz on the GNOME IRC
<desrt> do_not_highlight: hi!
<desrt> poor guy...
<seb128> desrt, yeah, I dropped him an email to ask if that was a segfault on highlight ;-)
<seb128> seems to be
<desrt> that's my guess too
<desrt> i didn't figure it out until i did that again :p
<sarnold> aww
<seb128> desrt, he did it 3 times in the afternoon already, that started being a lot ;-)
<jbicha> lol
<seb128> graaa
<seb128> g-c-c build fix conflict on push
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for fixing my upload but please if you jump on a fix ping on IRC
<seb128> jbicha, I was fixing it as well ;-)
 * seb128 uncommits
<seb128> jbicha, I think the libxkbfile-dev build-depends can be dropped as well
<jbicha> seb128: ok
<seb128> jbicha, thanks for fixing it ;-)
<ricotz> cyphermox, hi :)
<ricotz> just wanted to mention that thunderbird crashes with the new indicator-messages snapshot (running with glib 2.35.3 here) http://paste.debian.net/plain/211360
<cyphermox> oh, cool, thanks!
<ricotz> Laney, hi, just wanted to mention a gst1.0 port of rhythmbox is available https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/experimental/+sourcepub/2800650/+listing-archive-extra
<ricotz> (the visualizer plugin is disabled upstream)
<achiang> cyphermox: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1375857/
<robert_ancell> seb128, what was depending on guile 1.8?
<cyphermox> achiang: ad-hoc right?
<achiang> cyphermox: i don't think so
<seb128> robert_ancell, is that the old version?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
<cyphermox> achiang: because the line in that trace doesn't match what I have here :P
<achiang> cyphermox: this is on 12.04
<achiang> :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, not sure, I didn't look to in, everything but aisleriot by then iirc
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems to still be the case, the new version has no rdepends
<cyphermox> achiang: err, then the name of the file looks wrong
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I'm just trying to track down what there was...
<achiang> cyphermox: hm, i have a full log in our favorite bug
<achiang> cyphermox: you interested in seeing it?
<cyphermox> achiang: I'll look at the bug again -- except later, gotta go dinner now
<achiang> cyphermox: ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, reverse-depends is your friend ;-
<seb128> ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah and it's not showing anything interesting
<cyphermox> achiang: ok, i see what the issue is, I think.
<achiang> cyphermox: oh yeah? what do you see?
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, could be, but at the same time there is nothing interesting justifying the work to do the update,transition
<achiang> cyphermox: this is interesting... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1375958/
<achiang> cyphermox: and the log - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1375959/
<achiang> i wonder if that is a false positive
<achiang> any glib and/or valgrind people want to tell me if my test program is wrong? ^^
<seb128> achiang, you should call g_string_free() on it once done?
<achiang> seb128: yeah, i think my test program confused valgrind
<seb128> well it's leaking
<achiang> seb128: i mean, it's not strictly necessary to free pointers if your program is going to exit, but valgrind would still consider it a leak
<seb128> valgrind is right
<seb128> well, it's still a leak
<seb128> the fact you exit doesn't change the fact that you didn't free the memory correctly
<achiang> agreed that it wasn't proper
<seb128> with you reasoning valgrind couldn't ever list leaks since it does the summary once you stop the run and at this point the program exited and there is no leak remaining
<achiang> in fact adding in the g_string_free() makes the error go away
<seb128> yeah, it fixes the leak ;-)
<achiang> yeah, i was just testing to see if g_string_assign() leaked anything or not
<achiang> or rather, seeing if we might be calling it improperly
<achiang> alrighty, thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> the glib documentation could be better there
<seb128> in fact the document is better in the current version
<seb128> http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.34/glib-Strings.html#g-string-assign
<seb128> "the destination GString. Its current contents are destroyed."
<achiang> "destroyed" == "freed" ? because it's not clear to me
<sarnold> heh
<achiang> g_string_assign does: g_string_truncate ; g_string_append()
<seb128> yes
<achiang> i guess destroyed makes sense now, but you really have to read the code to figure that out
<seb128> right, the documentation could be a bit more detailled on the topic
<achiang> cyphermox: i found a definite bug in set_menu_item_accessible_desc(), doing some more research, but will send an MP soon i hope
<achiang> cyphermox: oh, i see now. r364 from trunk was never backported to 12.04 :-/
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-22
<jbicha> oops, it looks like seb128 broke gnome-control-center with his last upload, bug 1081826
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1081826 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashes with gtk warning" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1081826
<jbicha> I didn't care much for that navigation bar patch any way
<desrt> jbicha: what are you plans with regards to seb's plans for the control center?
<jbicha> well I'm annoyed that that patch came back and isn't Unity-specific
<desrt> ready to throw in the towel yet?
<jbicha> I'm not sure we need ibus 1.4.99 yet
<maxiaojun> hi
<maxiaojun> can i test your above mentioned stuff using raring daily image?
<jbicha> maxiaojun: sure, but you'll need to grab gnome-control-center 1:3.6.3-0ubuntu2 as ubuntu3 is broken
<maxiaojun> ok
<jbicha> maxiaojun: but I'm sure it will be fixed tomorrow
<maxiaojun> just for record, official ibus channel is #ibus, same net
<maxiaojun> ok, i will try it inside VirtualBox anyway
<jbicha> desrt: not quite yet
<maxiaojun> btw, tomorrow in which timezone?
<sarnold> maxiaojun: probably Europe/Paris
<maxiaojun> ok
<maxiaojun> concerning two keyboard indicator issue, ibus 1.4.99 may be a chance to fix it
<cyphermox> achiang: no, it wasn't *yet*, it's on my list, but the list is huge :'(
<achiang> cyphermox: i'm building a test package now
<achiang> cyphermox: or at least attempting to... see my question in #u-devel?
<achiang> cyphermox: (aka hopefully i can offload this from you)
<cyphermox> I didn't see it, did you ping me? I didn't get a highlight :)
<cyphermox> got it :P
<achiang> cyphermox: backporting r364 was easy. i'm doing a test build now, and then i'll see about also importing some of the other patches related to leaks from upstream's history
<cyphermox> sure. feel free to ask if you're unsure. but the other one you mentioned is still buggy
<achiang> cyphermox: which other one?
<cyphermox> g_string_append, that line 432 in src/applet-device-wifi.c
<cyphermox> or at least, it could be better
<achiang>         if (is_encrypted) {
<achiang>                 icon_desc = g_string_append (icon_desc, ", ");
<achiang>                 icon_desc = g_string_append (icon_desc, _("secure."));
<achiang>         }
<achiang> that bit?
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> could just as easily be a g_string_append_printf as above rather than two calls :)
<achiang> package built fine, so i can send up an MP soon
<achiang> not super familiar w/SRU paperwork process though
<cyphermox> achiang: basically, just follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<cyphermox> updating the package description and subscribing ubuntu-sru
<achiang> cyphermox: ok, will give it a shot
<achiang> hopefully this makes your life easier
<achiang> :)
<cyphermox> ping me if you need help with nominating the package for the release
<achiang> alrighty
<cyphermox> achiang: I really appreciate the help
<achiang> cyphermox: maybe one day i'll become motu. :)
<achiang> wish i had more time to work on distro
<cyphermox> careful what you wish for ... :)
<achiang> cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~achiang/network-manager-applet/precise-lp780602/+merge/135586
<pitti> Good morning
<maxiaojun> pitti is the author of jockey and u-d-c ?
<pitti> maxiaojun: yes
<maxiaojun> cool, two things
<maxiaojun> 1. can ubuntu provide a graphical hardware lister instead of requiring people to use 'lspci' ? do you agree with the concept?
<maxiaojun> 2. as i asked in previous mailing-list thread, some wifi chips still need b43, can jockey / u-d-c pull it?
<pitti> maxiaojun: 1. the "system info" in control-center should provide this
<pitti> 2. b43 should now work by default, as we ship the firmware; the wl driver explicitly needs to blacklist it
<pitti> but I don't have hardware which works with b43; my dell netbook only works with wl
<pitti> so I cannot verify on real hw
<duflu> smspillaz: What's the main reason for separating glDraw/glPaint?
<maxiaojun> for 2 now means raring or quantal?
<duflu> Other than guaranteeing call order in an unknown plugin sequence...
<pitti> maxiaojun: precise or quantal
<pitti> maybe earlier even, not sure
<maxiaojun> how do you ship it?
<pitti> it's in linux-firmware, which we install by default
<pitti> /lib/firmware/brcm/
<maxiaojun> different from  /lib/firmware/b43/ right?
<pitti> the path doesn't matter much
<maxiaojun> but the content is different
<pitti> ah, so that is not "the" b43 fw?
<pitti> so if we still need the "other" b43 firmware, the b43-fwcutter package needs to get a Modaliases: header to identify the hardware which needs that firmware
<pitti> but only those which don't overlap with wl
<maxiaojun> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1376507/
<maxiaojun> actually b43-fwcutter package itself needs some update
<maxiaojun> i just have one laptop that only b43-fwcutter stuff work
<pitti> what's the vendor/product ID of that card?
<pitti> anyway, it's better to mention this ^ on a bug report
<maxiaojun> 14e4:4331
<maxiaojun> i linked a bug report in previous mailing list thread
<maxiaojun> http://pad.lv/912941
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 912941 in b43-fwcutter (Ubuntu) "Broadcom 4331 is not supported" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<maxiaojun> btw, where is "system info", is it a raring thing?
<pitti> no, in control-center
<maxiaojun> control-center? system settings?
<maxiaojun> Details?
<pitti> yeah, might be system settings, too; I'm on a German locale, so I don't know the precise English terms
<pitti> (the program name is gnome-control-center)
<maxiaojun> but that's far from useful i guess
<maxiaojun> i cannot know my wifi hardware at all
<maxiaojun> a nice related article http://www.webupd8.org/2011/07/how-to-get-hardware-information-in.html
<maxiaojun> just check the screenshots
<maxiaojun> both os x and redmond os can provide detailed hardware information using built-in graphical tool
<maxiaojun> os x: http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_big_apple_mac_macbook_hard_disk_drive.html
<maxiaojun> redmond os: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_Manager
<maxiaojun> we don't have it, we use 'lspci -vvnn' probably with 'grep'
<sarnold> maxiaojun: feel free to file a "main inclusion request" for your favorite gui hardware display tool
<sarnold> maxiaojun: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for details
<maxiaojun> among those listed on the above mentioned blog post, HardInfo works best
<maxiaojun> but it seems unmaintained since 2009
<maxiaojun> i know there is MIR
<maxiaojun> works best i mean on 12.04
<BigWhale> I wonder when Ubuntu One will be integrated in control center :>
<maxiaojun> it is already in it
<RAOF> But not integrated
<maxiaojun> though i just noted a issue that since i bought some music from Ubuntu music store, i already using Ubuntu One
<maxiaojun> but the control-center entry still ask me to install Ubuntu One
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> smspillaz: Ignore that question. I now remember glPaint is for occlusion detection. I wish it was more obvious by the name :{
<seb128> seb128_, hey
<seb128> larsu, ^
<larsu> seb128, thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: this is the crashing seb, right? ;)
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't restart my main client with the new lib :p
<seb128> <- not crazy
<Laney> hey
<larsu> seb128 is too clever!
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> I hope I will not need to restart IRC or my session during the day though ;-)
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> stop pinging people I would say |o|
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<pitti> seb128: I hate users
<pitti> seb128: when you break floppies, they don't stop complaining; then, when you fix floppies, the other half doesn't stop complaining
<pitti> well, I don't hate the users really, I hate floppies
<pitti> a lot!
<seb128> pitti, hey, me too!
<seb128> pitti, floppy and acls on filesystems, right? ;-)
<pitti> yeah, the ACL bug is still a mystery to me :(
<didrocks> seb128: ping!
<didrocks> and seb128 is still up there \o/
<seb128> didrocks, works \o/
<didrocks> great :)
 * didrocks waits on jenkins to merge it
<seb128> larsu, running my real client under your new patch, working so far ;-)
<didrocks> then, pushing the trigger
<larsu> seb128, I feel honored! ;)  Thanks for testing it out
<larsu> didrocks, let me know if jenkins takes too long, then I'll merge it manually
<didrocks> larsu: I'm a little bit frightened about merging manually under jenkins' feet
<larsu> didrocks, I've done it a couple of times, it works fine if you set the status to "merged"
<didrocks> larsu: let me look if it runs
<larsu> yep
<didrocks> larsu: oh it's merged :)
<didrocks> just having emails lagging
<larsu> \o/
<didrocks> let me push the trigger for an automated upload
<larsu> thanks didrocks!
<didrocks> larsu: it's building in the ppa now and waiting
<didrocks> pitti: can you bump the priority of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4004054? we need the fix ASAP on the distro
<didrocks> the other archs are on a 3-4 minutes timerate, which means it will built in the next 30 minutes I hope :
<didrocks> :)
<pitti> didrocks: oui, je peux
<didrocks> pitti: un grand merci! :)
<didrocks> 32 minutes, way better :)
<pitti> fini
<didrocks> larsu: FYI ^ I guess it will be hopefully in proposed in 30 minutes
<didrocks> (built)
<didrocks> I meant, 60 minutes
<pitti> didrocks: currently building ubiquity and gcc, not the smallest packages
<pitti> hm, we used to have three ppc builders
<didrocks> yesterday, 3 were available
 * didrocks checks
 * pitti asks in #devel
<didrocks> oh, just 2 today? someone stole the copper!
<larsu> didrocks, nice!
<dholbach> salut mes amis
<dholbach> seb128, didrocks: I was wondering if we should do a french^WDesktop Development hangout some time soon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Hangouts :-)
<seb128> dholbach, hey
<seb128> what's the principle? hang out and chat and take questions ?
<didrocks> morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> seb128, yes, whatever we want to do, we do - if it's a demo or just a chat or a presentation - everything goes
<seb128> dholbach, why not
<didrocks> sure :)
<dholbach> personally I think demos always work best
<dholbach> so it could be "watch seb128 and didrocks, how they update 10 gnome packages in just 5 minutes"
<dholbach> or whatever else you have to talk about :)
<didrocks> we should do that when they are gnome updates to do then :)
<seb128> which is not this cycle :p
<dholbach> well, unity update then ;-)
<didrocks> dholbach: it's a button to push soon
<didrocks> or even, done daily automatically :)
<dholbach> ok, then you can just how you slack off all day
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© :)
<dholbach> I'll leave it up to you ;-)
<dholbach> or we can practise your German
<didrocks> "cracking the whip" session :)
<dholbach> or my French
<dholbach> whatever you feel might interest new folks is very much welcome
<dholbach> or if you need help somewhere
<seb128> dholbach, let's discuss it next week? this week is a bit crazy
<seb128> dholbach, around when did you envision doing it?
<dholbach> seb128, just grab a slot on the wiki page
<dholbach> whenever you like
<seb128> dholbach, ok, I will think about it ;-)
<dholbach> great
<bizhanMona> HI does ubuntu 12.10 supports EFISTUB bootloader?thx
<seb128> bizhanMona, hey, try asking the question on #ubuntu-devel, bootloader is a bit lower in the stack than what desktop work on
<bizhanMona> seb128: thx will do that.
<didrocks> larsu: seb128: all build steps ok for indicator-messages, just need to wait in 9 minutes next copy to proposed
<seb128> didrocks, \o/
<larsu> \o/
<desrt> good morning european people
<seb128> desrt, hey
<didrocks> hey desrt
<didrocks> larsu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/indicator-messages/12.10.6daily12.11.22-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> (rev 333 \o/)
<larsu> didrocks, !!!
<desrt> didrocks: how did that whole automated uploading thing go from a few days ago?
<didrocks> desrt: "few" == 2 days in prod now :)
<didrocks> desrt: seems to work well, larsu quickly broke ubuntu automatically :)
<desrt> didrocks: i warned you :)
<didrocks> desrt: well, we need tests
<didrocks> dogfooding isn't the only way to rely on things to work :)
<larsu> desrt, morning!
<desrt> larsu: hi.
<larsu> desrt, this crash would have gone in with a regular release as well
<larsu> desrt, /me was too stupid for g_variant_get ;)
<larsu> we need to test indicator-messages better
<desrt> larsu: _everyone_ is too stupid for g_variant_get()
 * desrt fucked it up yesterday too
<desrt> although the compiler caught me in this case...
 * desrt had like foo (GAction *action) { gchar *action_name; ... ... g_variant_get (blah, "(..s..)", .., &action, ...); .... use_string (action_name); ... }
<desrt> <gcc> "uh... are you sure action_name is initialised?"
<desrt> <desrt> @#$@#$ g_variant_get
 * desrt wonders why he types 'make -j 16' for webkit and sees 0.39 load average
<larsu> desrt, lol. Mine was g_variant_get (v, "(uxsb)", &one, &two, &three) -- crashed when unpacking the 4th value
<larsu> interestingly only on x86
<desrt> probably what was happening on amd64 was worse...
<desrt> either that or it happened to have a NULL at the end
<desrt> in which case the unpack is skipped
<larsu> desrt, we really need a gcc extension for it. Like the printf one
<desrt> larsu: i tried writing one.  it's exceptionally non-trivial.
<desrt> i wasted a good 3 days on it at one point
<larsu> really?
<larsu> holy ****
<desrt> ya.  gcc extentions are a mess
<desrt> there is hope, however
<desrt> since then a few people (including mozilla?) have written frameworks for writing gcc extentions in python
<desrt> and also: clang
<xnox> didrocks: the unity upload you did, only has one of the changes you claim to include =)
<xnox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/123689550/unity_6.12.0-0ubuntu2_6.12.0-0ubuntu3.diff.gz
<didrocks> xnox: urgh, but wth?
<didrocks> I applied the two diffs :/
<didrocks> grrrr, uploading the new one
<desrt> larsu: https://gcc-python-plugin.readthedocs.org/en/latest/working-with-c.html#spell-checking-string-constants-within-source-code
<desrt> larsu: this looks like it would be exceptionally easy to deal with
<xnox> didrocks: happens, if you use a VCS for debian source packages =/
<larsu> desrt, nice!
<larsu> desrt, we could do lots of warnings for glib and glib-object
<desrt> larsu: ya...
<didrocks> xnox: uploaded, thanks :)
<xnox> ;-)
<xnox> desrt: wow, that is so cooL!
<desrt> my favourite would be "you called G_DEFINE_INTERFACE on a vtable struct that doesn't have GInterface as its first member"
 * xnox slowly backs away
<larsu> desrt, that happens to people?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> i do it about once a year
 * larsu apparently writes too few interfaces
<desrt> fortunately i'm getting better at recognising the symptoms
<desrt> which is approximately
<desrt> (1) i've been writing a new interface
<desrt> and
<desrt> (2) WEIRD things are happening
<larsu> haha
<mhr3> mvo, you need to ping someone if you need a review ;)
<larsu> mhr3, doesn't launchpad send you emails?
<mvo> mhr3: oh? I was not aare of this
<mvo> mhr3: like anyone? or specific people?
<mhr3> larsu, it does, and there are hundreds of them :P
<larsu> mhr3, I was expecting exactly that answer :)
<mhr3> mvo, probably someone from unity team? :)
<mhr3> if you don't ping the right person, they'll probably forward it
<mvo> mhr3: haha, ok
<mhr3> mvo, for the stuff you're working on, i'd start with Trevinho or andyrock
<larsu> mvo, general rule of thumb: whoever's listed as "author" in the file you patched
<Trevinho> mhr3: yeah, I alredy gave him a review
<Trevinho> mhr3: I didn't write on MR, but I contacted him for few changes
<mhr3> Trevinho, ah, cool :)
<mhr3> larsu, hah, i usually just copy those and leave anyone in "Authored by" for double fun :P
<larsu> mhr3, haha that sounds like ...... fun?!
<mhr3> larsu, it's called "make someone suffer" :P
<larsu> lol
<desrt> larsu: btw: 90% chance i won't be in bremen
<larsu> desrt, well, there's always a next time :)
<mvo> thanks larsu
<mvo> Trevinho: I did address the points I think :) or did I miss something?
<mvo> Trevinho: aha, ok, got the updated MP now
<Trevinho> :)
<mvo> Trevinho: will work on that next, it means I need to implement the desktop-id algorithm in software-center now which looks like a bit of duplication, but maybe there is a implementation of this already (and if not it looks easy enough :)
<mlankhorst> mvo: I'm probably hitting another apt bug on switching back now
<mlankhorst> :P
<mvo> mlankhorst: *nooooo* ;)
<Trevinho> mvo: probably there's something around to compute it...
<mvo> mlankhorst: looks like you should consider a career in QA ;)
<Trevinho> mvo: unfortunately gio doesn't provide it, if you load an app via .desktop file it can't compute it's id -_-
<mlankhorst> I was trying to force all lts-quantal packages to be unremoved with apt-get install xserver-xorg
<Trevinho> it gives it to you only if you already open an app via its id
<mvo> Trevinho: heh :) thats funny, so if you have it already it gives it to you? crazy ;)
<mlankhorst> mvo: xserver-xorg has a break and conflicts on xorg-renamed-package http://paste.ubuntu.com/1377183/
<mlankhorst> all of the packages with -lts-quantal in the name provide xorg-renamed-package
<Trevinho> mvo: yeah, exactly :)
<mlankhorst> hence none of the packages with lts-quantal in the name should be considered for keeping..
<Trevinho> mvo: don't know if it's not implemented by purpose or if it's still missing, but that's a fact :/
<mvo> mlankhorst: hmm, yeah, looks like the problem resolver is failing badly, at leat this time its not happening when dpkg is already called
<mlankhorst> yeah it's a hairy situation though
<mlankhorst> I want the problem resolver to come up with 'hey none of the lts-quantal packages work any more, see what else can satisfy it'
<mlankhorst> woops
<mlankhorst> would probably have helped if I depended on the physical packages there
<robru> seb128, ping
<seb128> robru, hey
<robru> hey ;-)
<robru> seb128, ken told me to pester you about some SRUs that he needs to get done, can you help/guide me with that? I know nothing of the SRU process.
<seb128> sure
<seb128> robru, the documentation is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<robru> seb128, ken says he "need needs" unity-chromium-extension gnome-control-center-signon libsignon-glib
<seb128> robru, you basically need to have a minimal diff which includes only the changes to fix the issue you want to fix
<robru> seb128, I think ken was saying that they're done, they just need to get approved?
<seb128> robru, ok, so basically Ken needs me to find somebody to get those accepted is what you say ;-)
<robru> seb128, yes ;-)
<ricotz> cyphermox, hi :)
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> robru, thanks ... pinged the SRU guys
<seb128> ricotz, hey
<ricotz> seb128, there is a rhythmbox gst1.0 build available in my ppa
<ricotz> the packaging isnt cleaned though, just a "prove of concept" and it works with disabled visualizer-plugin
<seb128> ricotz, laney has one as well in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gstreamer1.0
<Laney> hey
<seb128> Laney, btw we should start uploading that stack soon I think ;-)
<Laney> ricotz: what did you do? just build the branch?
<ricotz> seb128, ah i see ;)
<Laney> seb128: yeah, there are still some possibly worrying mixed stack cases that dont have any work in progress
<ricotz> Laney, yes, just the gstreamer-1.0 branch
<Laney> ricotz: right, I merged it into the 2.98 tag and applied that diff
<ricotz> ok, good
<Laney> do you know if upstream plans to merge it any time soon?
<ricotz> sorry, idk
<Laney> want to ask?
<robru> seb128, thanks
<seb128> hum, I'm out for ~45min trying to debug my aunt machine having email issues, bbiab
<seb128> robru, yw!
<ricotz> cyphermox, jfyi the networkmanager package should be called 0.9.7.0~ since that is what it contains ;)
<Laney> miro gtkpod goobox gnomeradio
<Laney> those may be broken if we upload the new stack
<Laney> also libu1ui
<Laney> which AFAICS uses gstreamer just to install fluendo
<ricotz> Laney, i guess while the visualizer plugins isnt ported it won't get merged
<robru> didrocks, ken and I fixed your concerns here: https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/unity-firefox-extension/inline-packaging/+merge/135237 can you approve now? ;-)
<Laney> ricotz: maybe
<Laney> didn't the branch have daap disabled too?
<Laney> ISTR it being two plugins
<ricotz> yes
<didrocks> ricotz: looking!
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> not sure about uploading to ubuntu with it in that state
<ricotz> libclutter-gst-dev (>= 1.4) should be libclutter-gst-2.0-dev (>= 1.4),
<robru> didrocks, I have a couple others for review too ;-)
<Laney> uh huh
<Laney> the version is redundant in that case
<ricotz> Laney, the clutter-gst api didnt really changed, just bumped for gst1.0
<ricotz> hmm, debian/*.prs usr/share/gstreamer-0.10/presets?
<ricotz> in -data.install
<Laney> i already got fixed locally
<ricotz> not sure if this simply should go in 1.0
<ricotz> ok
<ricotz> Laney, could you push the totem package to gnome3-ppa quantal?
<didrocks> robru: approved, you can ping your prefered jenkins master to get it merged :)
<Laney> ricotz: you should be able to copy it
<Laney> if you view the ppa in the web interface
<robru> didrocks, oh, is there more than one? I've been working with vrruiz the last couple days, but he suddenly got busy...
<ricotz> Laney, not a copy a rebuild with ~ubuntu12.10.1
<didrocks> robru: vvruiz, fghinter, alesage or mmrazik :)
<didrocks> 2 of them are on vacations though
<robru> didrocks, cool thanks
<didrocks> yw!
<mlankhorst> mvo: I'll just open another bug for apt then :)
<ricotz> Laney, i can grab it too later
<robru> didrocks, hey, you forgot to mark 'approved', you just made a comment ;-)
<Laney> might do it after finishing the ubiquity port
<ricotz> thanks
<didrocks> ricotz: greenified :)
<robru> didrocks, thanks. and I'm not ricotz  ;-)
<didrocks> robru: speak more! s<tab> + smart completion is a general failure :)
<didrocks> in fact, I should probably remove this weechat "smart completion"
<ricotz> didrocks, robru, hi, yeah i got a bit confused ;)
<robru> didrocks, so just type 'ro' before hitting tab ;-)
<mlankhorst> I use first 2 letters most of the time..
<didrocks> robru: yeah, but the thing is supposed to complete by the latest speaking on a channel matching the letters you type
<didrocks> so one letter + tab is generally enough
<didrocks> we have too many r and s here :)
<robru> didrocks, ah, well you should file a bug so that you can hit 'tab' multiple times until it gets it right ;-)
<didrocks> robru: yeah, or just fix it TBH :p
<robru> didrocks, aaaaaannnnnnyyyyyways.... can you review this one too? https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/signon-keyring-extension/inline-packaging/+merge/135496 ;-)
<didrocks> sure sure :)
<didrocks> before building, I like it :)
<didrocks> now, let's seeâ¦
<didrocks> robru: approved! good work :)
<robru> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<robru> didrocks, got time for one more? ;-)
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<didrocks> robru: how could I refuse? :)
<robru> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/webaccounts-browser-extension/inline-packaging/+merge/135463 ;-)
<didrocks> robru: not ignoring the .pem is on purpose?
<didrocks> ah yeah
<didrocks> as we store the key
<robru> didrocks, yeah, build fails without the .pem
<robru> didrocks, I was considering just 'add -f' the one .pem and leaving other .pems ignored, but ken told me to unignore .pems in general
<didrocks> robru: yeah, that's fine IMHO
<didrocks> robru: small comment though
<didrocks> see MP
<robru> didrocks, of course
<robru> didrocks, this is why I ask for reviews ;-)
<didrocks> robru: yeah, always better to double check! :)
 * desrt looks out over a sea of green
<robru> desrt, you high? I doubt there's any green in Toronto at the moment...
<robru> ;-)
<didrocks> desrt: is that the pond near the airport? :p
<desrt> robru: jhbuild results page
<robru> ahhhhh
<desrt> things are going *very* nicely lately
<didrocks> desrt: daily upload then! :)
<robru> I built jhbuild once. once. ;-)
<desrt> meta-gnome-core-shell builds with 100% success at this point
<desrt> extras as well
<desrt> (after applying my gnome-control-center patch, of course)
<desrt> disk-utility is failing due to too high udisks dependency
<robru> didrocks, ok, fix pushed, please approve ;-)
<mlankhorst> mvo: woops, might have helped it conflict more by having some old package installed accidentally
<desrt> and there's some stupid issues with graphviz and libmusicbrainz
<desrt> but everything else is perfect
<mvo> mlankhorst: oh, does it still fail?
<mlankhorst> not sure yet
<mlankhorst> but it probably didn't help
<robru> didrocks?
<didrocks> robru: building fine, files installed at the right place. perfect and approved:)
<robru> didrocks, thanks!
<robru> didrocks, ok, one last one I swear ;-)
<robru> didrocks, https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/webapps-applications/inline-packaging/+merge/135247 ;-)
<didrocks> robru: heh, keep them coming :)
<mlankhorst> got a stale xserver-common in my ppa somehow..
<robru> didrocks, actually ken said there were none left to do after this... I pestered him to give me a list of packages to do but he wouldn't ;-)
<didrocks> robru: oh? maybe cyphermox can use some help then! :)
<didrocks> robru: there are still some on the indicator/notify-osd stack
<didrocks> as it seems you love thatâ¦ ;)
<didrocks> (oh also oif)
<robru> didrocks, yeah actually... the only thing on my plate for today is to hassle people until these land.
<robru> didrocks, so I could definitely do more if there are some available
<didrocks> excellent, please cyphermox ^
<didrocks> let me review first
<robru> cyphermox, yeah, if you want to assign me to inline 3-4 packages today that would be cool
<didrocks> robru: debian/copyright -> I guess TBH it should be all canonical :)
<didrocks> just a minor thing, but simplifying the license and all the work we do in ubuntu for packaging is copyright canonical
<didrocks> I don't think ken will object :)
<robru> didrocks, so just drop the whole last paragraph there?
<cyphermox> robru: didrocks: what's left by my count is appmenu-gtk, globalmenu-extension, indicator-applet, appmenu-qt, libappindicator, sni-qt ; picking any in the list is fine, just tell me which :)
<didrocks> robru: yeah
<didrocks> cyphermox: you have notify-osd and the oif stack as well, right?
<cyphermox> ah, yes
<cyphermox> there are those too
<didrocks> robru: so start with indicators one first I would say ^
<robru> cyphermox, ok, that's 6. I'll take the last three, so appmenu-qt, libappindicator, and sni-qt
<didrocks> see, there are a lot of fun here :)
<robru> cyphermox, oh, ok
<robru> ok wait
<robru> didrocks, you want me to do indicator-applet?
<didrocks> robru: the first line is all indicators, so your plan works :)
<robru> didrocks, cyphermox, ok, the three I originally said stand. ;-)
<didrocks> thanks robru, cyphermox :)
<robru> didrocks, ok, pushed that copyright fix, please approve ;-)
<didrocks> it's building building buildingâ¦
<cyphermox> didrocks: how did libindicate look after all, anything jumping out? was I too tired when I did it ? :)
<didrocks> robru: and approved :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: hum, did I miss this review?
<didrocks> let me look again :)
<cyphermox> there isn't a MR, it's one I told you about early this morning
<cyphermox> or do you rather just review it later? :P
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh right, yeah, I didn't get time, TBH, I planned to go outside running for some hours ago and still didn't get to it :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so no, didn't review that one, just finish what you wanted and I'll review :)
<didrocks> that one and libindicator (which I reviewed I guess)
 * didrocks refreshes the stack of indicator deployed by jenkins
 * didrocks goes out to do some exercice, back in an hour
 * xnox unity takes a while to compile
<didrocks> xnox: welcome to my world :)
<mlankhorst> mvo: ok false alarm it seems, it seems to have gone insane for having the xserver-common weirdness..
<xnox> didrocks: and I have i7 and doing a parallel build =)
<xnox> sorry, i5, not i7.
<mlankhorst> still seems to need some help to switch forward though on multiarch
<xnox> mlankhorst: yeah, with multiarch it's a pain to dist-downgrade and dist-upgrade unless all enabled arches are insync.
<xnox> didrocks: now that I have built it, why are there so many lintian tags, including warnings & errors.
<mlankhorst> xnox: not that, getting E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
<mlankhorst> I can help it out with apt-get install xserver-xorg-lts-quantal  libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-quantal:i386, though..
<xnox> never saw that before.
 * mlankhorst stresses apt's limits a bit more than usual..
<xnox> mlankhorst: since you get an error message instead of a coredump, it may mean that you are not first one to actually do this =)))))
<xnox> there is hope =)
<robru> didrocks, back yet?
<cyphermox> robru: can I help?
<robru> cyphermox, probably ;-)
<robru> cyphermox, I was just curious about appmenu-qt, because it's not owned by a team. It's the first one I've seen owned by an individual.
<robru> didrocks, cyphermox: so the comment looks weird here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robru/appmenu-qt/inline-packaging/view/head:/debian/control
<robru> cyphermox, like, who is this person? are they active? is it ok for me to say that this one guy is going to handle the packaging for us once it's inlined?
<cyphermox> ah, no it's pretty much because it wasn't moved, I think this branch should belong to ~indicator-applet-developers too
<Laney> argh
<Laney> I can't get my laptop or my desktop to boot into a live env due to a multitude of failures
<Laney> anyone ever used vbox USB passthrough?
<cyphermox> heh. I get crazy lag
<robru> cyphermox, so how would I go about fixing that?
<Laney> It "sees" the webcam but cheese shows a-nothing
<cyphermox> robru: pushign the branch to the new location once it's all merged
<cyphermox> gah, the lag is painful
<xnox> Laney: right, is the webcam enabled via Fn-hotkey?
<cyphermox> why is everything so slow
<xnox> Laney: or give me the branch & I can test this on my netbook.
 * xnox had zero luck doing webcam over usb-passthrough
<robru> cyphermox, but I mean... do I have permission to fix that? or are we waiting for agateau to merge my branch and then push it somewhere else?
 * Laney hides under xnox
<cyphermox> robru: let's check that out with mmrasik
<Laney> I'll push it but it could be a pile of failure
<didrocks> xnox: most of them are false positives
<didrocks> xnox: and due to compiz
<xnox> didrocks: hm?
<didrocks> xnox: the hardening-no-fortify-functions is a false positive one, as steve looked at it
<didrocks> the executable-not-elf-or-script or generate by dh_migrations
<didrocks> W: unity source: quilt-build-dep-but-no-series-file
<didrocks> W: unity source: patch-system-but-no-source-readme
<xnox> ember: unity-common: python-script-but-no-python-dep usr/lib/unity/makebootchart.py
<didrocks> -> quilt was added by someone else
<didrocks> xnox: yeah, we don't want to add the python dep on purpose
<didrocks> it's used by autopilot only
<didrocks> and that's all of them
<xnox> didrocks: that's wrong. that file should then be shepped in the unity-autopilot package.
<xnox> didrocks: and the python dependency should be there.
<xnox> didrocks: or port to python3 =)
<didrocks> xnox: the unity-autopilot didn't exist at the time, it can be moved
<xnox> didrocks: yes, please.
<didrocks> xnox: "please"?
<didrocks> xnox: TBH, I don't really like this ton
<didrocks> we can see how you will deal once you will have more than 40 packages under your responsability
<didrocks> especially for things where the quality of the package is not directly impacted
<xnox> didrocks: i can do merge proposals if you like.
<didrocks> xnox: yes please
<xnox> didrocks: and sorry about the tone. it was not meant like that. I am not sure, how I was suppose to say "oh, since unity-autopilot didn't exist at the time, I see why the python dep was not explicitely added at the time. But now that autopilot package exists, moving that file there is a good idea. I agree with you, can this be a wishlist packaging bug/task?"
<didrocks> xnox: it's more on the "17:46:25          xnox | didrocks: now that I have built it, why are there so many lintian tags, including warnings & errors." which I find pedantic and accusive
<didrocks> accusative*
<xnox> didrocks: I do understand that maintaining a large stack of packages is hard and in no way trying to point it out.
<didrocks> thanks :)
<xnox> didrocks: it's the first time I built unity myself, and I wondered if there was a good reason for it to be in a state like it is or I should fix it.
<didrocks> xnox: apart from the python one, I think you can remove quilt now that we have inline branch
<xnox> usually large amont of lintian can be very much intentional.
<xnox> didrocks: well, I recognise the quilt one, as some of my packages have it - if you built it as both 1.0 or 3.0 source package depending on the target release.
<didrocks> then we have the executable-not-elf-or-script and hardening-no-fortify-functions which are wanted
<xnox> so I don't actually mind that one.
<didrocks> the only "error" is a false positive
<didrocks> I meant:
<didrocks> patch-system-but-direct-changes-in-diff
<didrocks> but this is due to merge-upstream
<didrocks> xnox: btw, the MP should be done for lp:unity now
<didrocks> xnox: as we are moving all packaging inline
<xnox> didrocks: that was going to be my next question =)
<xnox> ack.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, our street is rapidly turning in to a river
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: running that much?
<didrocks> raining*
<desrt> our street has a rather ironic habit of turning into a lake...
 * didrocks has a broken head after today :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, it's been raining pretty heavy for the last half an hour
<didrocks> here, the weather is cold, but not rainy
<robru> didrocks, chrisccoulson: we have a foot of snow in Winnipeg!
<didrocks> robru: waow! what's the temperature?
<desrt> robru: pfft.  'real canada'
<desrt> enjoy your snow, eh?
<didrocks> desrt: you definitively don't live in canada :p
<desrt> didrocks: ask robru.  he'll tell you :p
<didrocks> heh ;)
<robru> I am getting on a plane in a week... ;-)
<robru> and I'm never coming back to this town!
<didrocks> seems like a relief :)
<didrocks> where are you moving btw?
<desrt> robru hates winnipeg
<robru> I am moving to Victoria, BC. it's a cute little coastal town... they only get snow for a few days per year.
<robru> and also they're a cycling haven... they're like Canada's copenhagen ;-)
<chrisccoulson> robru, lucky you! i love snow :(
<didrocks> oh, sounds lovely :)
<chrisccoulson> robru, want to swap for a few months?
<chrisccoulson> birmingham is lovely at this time of year
<chrisccoulson> honest ;)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: you should know better than to believe any of us would believe the words 'birmingham is lovely' coming from your mouth :)
<robru> chrisccoulson, if you love snow so much, you should strongly consider moving to Winnipeg. ;-)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, heh ;)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: but only if you also love having bricks thrown at you
<didrocks> robru: is the weather better than Seattle? I hear that it was already raining around there
<didrocks> seems like 150kms away
<robru> didrocks, yeah, it's actually quite sunny in Victoria. I don't know how to explain it, but there's this one mountain that shaped just right to deflect all of the rain clouds over into Vancouver instead.... ;-)
<didrocks> robru: "let's have the USA keep their weather" :p
<cyphermox> didrocks: having some issues with actually testing reverse-depends of libindicator for now; for some reason my internet is really slow this afternoon
<cyphermox> but I updated to fix the issues mentioned on the MR
<cyphermox> (about to push now)
<didrocks> cyphermox: no worry, I think I'll review tomorrow right now.
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> robru: cyphermox: just keep them coming as you can, I'll review that in my inbox :)
<cyphermox> I'm going to stay up until I finish at least ubuntu-menu-bar; and perhaps oif and notify-osd too
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: sweet!
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'll do the part 2 of the bootstrap
<didrocks> meaning the message and commits
<cyphermox> any bootstraps missing?
<cyphermox> I can do them too
<robru> didrocks, I have a good 6 hours left on my shift, you probably dont want to stay up that late.... but you can get more reviews tomorrow ;-)
<didrocks> cyphermox: I think I ended up what is merged
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> robru: I would love them \o/
<didrocks> robru: then, tomorrow, we can talk together (I think we didn't) about the step 2 of the boostrap
<didrocks> which is really simple :)
<cyphermox> yup
<cyphermox> for the indicator packages my script works well :D
<didrocks> heh :)
<robru> didrocks, yep, I know very little about this process, i just do what I am told so far ;-)
<cyphermox> didrocks: you just don't trust my work  ;)
<didrocks> robru: well, you know, the process is new to everyone, we just shape it as it goes :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: not that, it's just that I wanted for tomorrow to have more things running
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh btw, you did notice the 3rd merge I'm doing?
<cyphermox> 3rd merge?
<didrocks> it's when there is something to release, to have at least one additional commit to release
<robru> didrocks, ok, you have a new one in the email ;-)
<cyphermox> oh, right ok
<didrocks> robru: too late, just closed thunderbird (lucky? ;))
<cyphermox> just for changing thing to check that it works
<didrocks> cyphermox: right
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'm only doing those for projects that have something not in distro
<didrocks> like a commit not backported already and so on
<didrocks> that's why all projects don't necesserally have it
<didrocks> waow 14s of lag, I guess it shows I should EOD :)
 * didrocks waves good evening
<didrocks> and enjoy inlining :)
<notgary> Hey, would anyone have a problem with the paper cuts team having a brief meeting here in about 40 minutes, or would you prefer us to do it somewhere else?
<desrt> notgary: looks like nobody minds :)
<notgary> desrt: I guess I can take the silence as implicit consent :)
<robru> notgary, I don't mind...
<notgary> robru: explicit consent is of course always preferred :)
<xnox> notgary: is ubuntu-meeting booked? Cause if not, you can highjack it & use the meeting notes bot with #startmeeting title
<notgary> I wasn't sure if our thing would be big enough for Ubuntu meeting. I was thinking of holding it here and seeing what kind of turnout we got before moving onto that.
<xnox> notgary: asked on #ubuntu-irc and was pointed to http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ looks like #ubuntu-meeting is free.
<xnox> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
<notgary> Heh, free all day
<notgary> Thanks for the heads up
<xnox> notgary: meh, I think the _whole_ ubuntu-motu meetings sometimes have like 3 people in it. But the onlookers are great =)
<notgary> Heh, fair enough :)
<xnox> notgary: ask for a meeting to be put on the fridge on #ubuntu-irc. #ubuntu-meeting is always a good place to hold meeting, as there won't be accidental interruptions to the conversations.
<xnox> notgary: plus fridge is an advertisement platform for meetings ;-)
<notgary> xnox: thanks for the advice :)
<xnox> np
<notgary> I think it's too late to change it now as people will probably miss it, but next time I'll set that up.
<MCR1> notgary: Hi :) I heard a meeting is about to happen ?
<radu> hey everyone
<notgary> MRC1: You heard right. Hold on a few more minutes.
<MCR1> :)
<cyphermox> notgary: ok so you're having the meeting here instead of #ubuntu-meeting after all?
<cyphermox> ignore me
<notgary> cyphermox: you must have missed my last message about it being too late to change it this time, but next time we'll do that
<cyphermox> yeah yeah, no problem :)
<notgary> right
<notgary> Who's all here for the paper cuts meeting? Say hello if you ar.
<chilicuil> hi =)
<radu> hey
<_Psy_> Hi
<notgary> Anyone else? MCR1, I'm looking at you :)
<notgary> Ah well, he'll be back
<notgary> Anyway
<notgary> Thanks a lot for coming along. I appreciate you taking the time to attend
<notgary> If anyone's not familiar with the agenda, you should quickly check it out here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCutsRaring/Meeting1
<notgary> The first item:
<notgary> how are we doing?
<notgary> So far we have...
<notgary> fixed 8 bugs
<MCR1> notgary: Sry, I am here now :)
<notgary> No probs
<notgary> :)
<MCR1> @all: Hi
<notgary> 8 paper cuts fixed: 6 committed upstream and 2 already released
<notgary> For a project that was on it's last legs this time last month, I'd say we've gotten off to a greta start
<notgary> So far we've been focusing mostly on Rhythmbox bugs
<notgary> and 4 of the fixes are in there
<notgary> Anyone got any thoughts or comments on our progress so far?
<notgary> Hoe are we doing?
<notgary> What could we be doing better?
<notgary> A specific point was raised on the mailing list
<notgary> about the role of GTK in the project
<radu> i'd say we're doing good
<notgary> It was pointed out that a lot of the bugs fixed so far have been issues in GTK, rather than the app they were reported in
<notgary> radu: excellent. Nice to know it's not just my warped outlook on life :)
<_Psy_> Well, I can say that I was not sure about the "app focusing" plan, but I'm very surprised about the results and I must give congratulations for the idea
<radu> yeah, for that. Since GTK+ touches a lot of projects, I'd say if we want to target it specifically, we should give it a larger time period than the rest
<_Psy_> Its really making sense, focusing the project
<MCR1> I'd say a good idea with GTK, a good idea to work on problems near the foundation of things...
<notgary> I was sceptical about the potential success of it too
<notgary> but it seems to have worked out well :)
<notgary> As for GTK, I was thinking maybe we could give it some kind of preferential treatment, maybe targeting more bugs to it than we would on anything else.
<notgary> What do people think about that?
<radu> that would be my idea too. Maybe treat it like three-four normal applications
<_Psy_> Yep, I really believe that can be the foundation on where the papercut project gravitates, because many bugs found and reported are foundational ones: GTK+, Unity, Compiz.
<_Psy_> And thouse papercuts are usually difficult to report if you don't have a good test case on one app
<MCR1> Yeah, I hoped I would not have to say that - _Psy_ I agree 100%
<radu> personally, I think targetting Unity is not such a bad thing. Some Unity bugs should be easy to fix (typos, descriptions etc), and this has a direct impact on all Ubuntu users
<MCR1> Compiz as foundation of Unity is even more important IMHO
<notgary> Unity has it's own foundational technology, called Nux, which is an interface widget library developed specifically or Unity
<notgary> I'm not sure how it all works, but perhaps we could know out some bugs in Nux that manifest as paper cuts in Unity
<MCR1> notgary: I have contributed a lot to both projects (Compiz/Unity) already, so I can help with this
<BigWhale> who's the goto guy for Launcher API?
<notgary> Not sure. We can ask on the Unity dev and design mailing lists
<MCR1> Unity devs hang around in #ubuntu-unity
<notgary> Or we could ask there :P
<BigWhale> MCR1, notgary yeah... I just joined. Thanks.
<notgary> Anyway
<notgary> we should probably wrap up this item and conclude that we're going to look closer at the foundational technologies in Ubuntu
<MCR1> It would be important to have some scripts, setting up build and testing environment for Compiz/Unity as those are not easy to set up
<radu> ok, that would be a good summary
<_Psy_> My feeling is that Unity/Compiz/GTK+ must have a permanent "focusing" week every month
<MCR1> I saw the idea of Papercutters PPA
<radu> MCR1, I agree with the scripts idea
<notgary> Which is a perfect segway into that item
<notgary> A pity we don't have a seaway sound effect for that :P
<notgary> The paper cutters PPA would just be a catchall holding area for any scripts and apps that are developed for helping out the paper cuts proejct
<notgary> So far we've got a single script for reporting the current progress of the project for the current cycle https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaperCutsProgressReporter
<notgary> and I was hoping to iteratively expand it as we go on, turing it into a very comprehensive guide to how we're doing
<notgary> This would be the first one to go in
<notgary> and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for anything else we could stick in our toolbelt.
<notgary> There was mention of setup scripts for Compiz/Unity and friends
<MCR1> I could try to build some basic scripts that help to set up Compiz/Unity, but that is not so easy as it sounds...
<notgary> Yeah, those ones are quite nasty
<MCR1> but otherwise it is important for a contributor to be able to test his fixes, without having to set up everything from scratch
<notgary> So how would you think these scripts should work?
<notgary> in terms of workflow for the user/contributor
<MCR1> Every info regarding building Unity from source is heavily outdated
<MCR1> So I suggest adding scripts like "branch_and_build_compiz_and_unity_from_source.sh" would be helpful
<notgary> That would indeed be helpful
<notgary> to Ubuntu at large as well as the paper cut project
<MCR1> They should pull in all build-deps, pull/update bamf/nux/libunity/compiz/unity and install the builds to the home dir for testing
<notgary> How difficult do you think it would be to keep them unto date?
<notgary> *upto
<MCR1> So people can start hacking on it more easily
<MCR1> well, there are many unannounced changes all the time, soooo - rather hard...
<notgary> Maybe we could enlist the help of the Unity devs for this
<notgary> We'd also need to make sure we tested it regularly, to make sure it worked
<notgary> probably daily
<MCR1> that would be great
<notgary> and any build failures should be reported as bugs
<notgary> This sounds like a great idea because of the benefit it will have for Ubuntu as a whole.
<MCR1> we could start with hacks on Compiz though, as those would be much easier to test...
<notgary> Do you know of any small ones that we can get started on?
<MCR1> I have developed a way of testing Compiz plug-ins and fixes, that is quite simple and efficient
<MCR1> yes, I got a ton of them ;)
<notgary> Awesome
<_Psy_> notgary: So far we saw many bugs that goy stuck just because we needed the input from design or UX team to clarify a possible "good" behave of the UI
<notgary> _Psy_
<notgary> Yeah
<MCR1> _Psy_: Yes, design is not very responsive, I agree...
<_Psy_> So, I think to have them roaming makes a lot of sense
<notgary> that's something I've been working on trying to fix
<MCR1> See also the ayatana list
<MCR1> a ton of great ideas without any response whatsoever
<notgary> I've spoken with mpt about how to get more response from design
<notgary> He said that if we assign the bug to jnick_tait, a project manager on the design team, then he'd get it delegated to another memebr
<notgary> hopefully leading to more members of the design team working with community members
<MCR1> that would be something appreciated from the community I think
<notgary> He also said it was ok to ping jnick_tait on #ubuntu-design if we wanted to get his attention
<notgary> Though I would suggest letting a little time go by before doing that :P
<_Psy_> Oh, thats great
<MCR1> many bugs are just bugs and do not really need design input, so there is enough to do
<notgary> I think this is another bit we can wrap up now
<notgary> In summary...
<notgary> Start working on build scripts to get the foundation packages up and running more easily
<notgary> and pester design to provide input
<notgary> Next...
<notgary> Another idea was suggested for the reporting of paper cuts
<notgary> instead of asking people to report them on pre-release CD, where the code was likely to change anyway
<_Psy_> MCR1: yes, but sometimes just with a little input you can quicly dismiss a bug and avoid to wate resources.
<notgary> we should be soliciting paper cuts from stable releases
<_Psy_> (sorry if I'm a bit slow, english is not my first language)
<MCR1> yes and there are other great ideas, which would not need much work to get implemented (ideal for papercutters), but need-design
<notgary> Where the code is frozen and much less likely to be broken
<MCR1> I agree, _Psy_
<notgary> In the past, a lot of bugs that are a natural part of pre-release software have been sent as paper cuts
<notgary> clocking up the system and making it tougher to spot genuine ones
<radu> Well, currently, only a handful of people are marking papercuts in the bug tracker, so this is not such a big problem
<notgary> At the moment yes, but it would be great for it to be a big problem, if you see what I mean :)
<notgary> You're right that a lot of paper cuts aren't being reported right now
<notgary> but that's something I'd like to change
<notgary> If we ask people to sit down for an hour or two with their favourite app
<radu> heh, yeah I understand what you're saying
<notgary> and just tell us everything they find annoying about it
<notgary> then we'll never be short of paper cuts to fix
<notgary> If we can get them doing that ...
<druellan> Well, if you want more "average user" contributions, you must target what people already have installed.
<notgary> Then we need to make sure they know to do it on stable releases, and not betas
<MCR1> it is important to get high-quality bug reports, which are easily reproducable then - that is a half-fix already
<notgary> druellan, MCR1: exactly
<notgary> pre-release software is a moving target in terms of fixing bugs
<notgary> at least if you not a Canonical developer
<notgary> so we should focus our attention on stable code
<notgary> in the case right now, 12.10 and 12.04 LTS
<MCR1> in the case of Compiz/Unity you will always hack on latest trunk, no ?
<notgary> Yes
<notgary> The bug is reported in stable code
<notgary> and tested/fixed on development
<seb128> notgary, the stable release have limited scope for updates though
<seb128> you also need to get the issues fixed in the current serie before doing an SRU
<radu> yeah, the issue will be fixed for the next release anyway
<MCR1> yes, that is what I mean
<notgary> Hmm, goods points.
<MCR1> you fix stuff in trunk, then you backport it
<notgary> OK, that's a good point.
<radu> backporting might be difficult, especially for the LTS
<druellan> Even worse if you are trying to fix an upstream bug, like GTK+, thouse are unlikely to be backported to a LTS
<MCR1> it gets harder once the code diverges too much, because you have to fix conflicts
<notgary> radu: which is why they should be reported and fixed in pre-reales. Now I'm getting you
<notgary> Ok, focus on the current trunk sound like the best way to go about it.
<MCR1> but generally most bugfixes will apply cleanly to LTS (old) versions of the code also
<radu> well, you could restrict the bug reporting to the stable version. This is not a problem. But the fixes will probably be available with the next release and might not be backported
<notgary> If we summarise that it's best to focus on pre-release and not current stable, and that I'm talking nonsense, will everyone be cool: :P
<MCR1> bug reports can and should also focus on current stable if they are still valid for trunk
<seb128> it's usually better to fix trunk
<seb128> so you know the bug is fixed for the futur versions
<seb128> you need that anyway if you want to SRU a fix because the stable update will not be accepted if the bug is not fixed in the current serie
<radu> MCR1,  that's my opinion also
<MCR1> but fixes should be done in trunk versions and later backported
<radu> ok, so focus on bug reports from stable version. Fix in trunk, if still present. And backport if possible
<radu> does that sound resonable?
<MCR1> yep
<notgary> yep
<notgary> Right...
<notgary> Last item from the agenda is the future of #ubuntu-papercuts
<notgary> Since I set it up, I've noticed there's been net to no traffic in there. It's also been suggested that the paper cutters hang about here in #ubuntu-desktop so the work we do has greater exposure to the rest of the development community, since this is the hub of that.
<notgary> I also think it's useful to have the desktop team generally aware of what we're doing since our focus on the CD effectively makes us s sub team of them
<MCR1> I have no problem with that and think we do not need a new channel, there are really enough #ubuntu-* channels already
<seb128> it makes sense to have discussions about usability issues on the channel that's on topic of the component which has the issue
<seb128> e.g here for desktop stuff
<seb128> #ubuntu-unity maybe for compiz/unity
<notgary> seb128 chiming in here is evidence enough of the usefulness of that :)
<seb128> ;-)
<druellan> I think it makes sense. Papercuts will always gravitate towards UX
<notgary> So maybe we could use #ubuntu-desktop as out main channel, and move into the relevant channels as and when we need to, such as #ubuntu-unity for talk about Unity
<MCR1> +1
<notgary> MCR1 's vote is enough to decide :)
<seb128> +1 as well
 * druellan rises a +1
<notgary> I'll closed down #ubuntu-papercuts in a couple of days
<radu> ok
<notgary> I'll change the entry message to point people here
<notgary> so anyone that doesn't here about this won;t try to join a non-existent channel
<notgary> So, that's the agenda out the way.
<notgary> Anyone got anything else that's like to add
<notgary> ?
<druellan> Ejem
<druellan> About Unity
<notgary> Go ahead
<druellan> Its not better to call it Unity/Compiz and to focus the raring cycle to both?
<druellan> I've found several reports that turned to be about Compiz more than Unity
<notgary> I think that's what we're going to do
<notgary> Compiz, GTK and Nux are the three primary foundation technologies in the Ubuntu GUI
<notgary> and so we're going to look closely at all three of them
<notgary> both in Raring, and in the future
<cyphermox> stuff there is unlikely to be papercut though
<MCR1> a very good decision IMHO
<druellan> cyphermox: good point
<cyphermox> (or at least feel to me like)
<notgary> The bugs themselves may not be paper cuts, but they can manifest as such
<notgary> I've closed plenty of bug reports that sounded like they were simply paper cuts in this app or that
<druellan> But, from the user point of view, Unity and Compiz are almost the same, they both shape the desktop
<seb128> often when bugs exist for a long time there is a reason
<cyphermox> right, but the whole idea of papercut projet initially was to be small annoying bugs that can be easily fixed ;P
<seb128> or said different: they are not trivial to fix
<MCR1> cyphermox: I can not confirm that. Although people think that everything in Compiz/Unity has to be very complicated it often is not...
<cyphermox> MCR1: you're right, but it also has a high chance to be
<MCR1> sure, some are also hardcore ;)
<cyphermox> as opposed to elements closer to the user, like a specific application
<MCR1> if you build a house, you gotta take care to build a good fundament
<cyphermox> yes
<druellan> The point here is not to dismiss unity reports just because for a dev are different beast. If they fall from Papercut's scope, then, be it.
<cyphermox> right
<notgary> I think it would be good to at least spend a cycle looking at these sort of bugs
<cyphermox> shouldn't be dismissed, but taken care of carefully.
<radu> It's a good idea to get some feedback from the main developers, like on the Rhythmbox bugs. They can tell us if it's easy to fix or not :)
<cyphermox> I didn't follow everything, but did you engage with unity devs for getting papercut reports?
<desrt> seb128: time to stop working :)
<MCR1> developers will test and proofread every merge-request anyway
<seb128> desrt, oh?
<desrt> unless you're in north america today?
<cyphermox> MCR1: yes, but the papercut idea is to identify low-hanging fruit, that's before the merge request point
<notgary> cyphermox: we haven't yet, only because we haven't gotten round to looking at Unity yet
<seb128> desrt, I started at 10 and I've been away from 16 to 21
<cyphermox> notgary: ok
<seb128> desrt, with lunch in the middle of 10-16
<desrt> seb128: lazy, then :)
<seb128> desrt, ;-)
<notgary> We've already seen that plenty of paper cuts can be fixed in GTK, so we're just extending that to the other foundation graphical technologies, though we may draw the line at X.Org :)
<notgary> We'll take a cycle to see how it goes
<notgary> And regular meetings like this one will stop us going too long down the wrong path
<radu> MCR1, I was thinking of getting feedback when marking the bug as a papercut, if it's tricky or not
<seb128> you guys can probably talk to attente about GTK things you hack on
<notgary> We're just trying new things right now and seeing what happens
<seb128> he joined recently and he's working on GTK
<attente> o/
<seb128> attente, hey, I guess you would be fine helping the papercut guys to get their usability fixes in shape to land in GTK?
<seb128> attente, or working with them trying to see what makes sense at least ;-)
<attente> seb128: sure thing, as long as i understand what's happening
<desrt> attente: how are the menus?
<attente> desrt: still working on the action group export
<attente> but we now ignore tearoff menu items properly at least
<desrt> nice
<desrt> is the menu syncing itself fully completed and no longer crashing?
<attente> there's still the one case that crashes, removing a separator from the end of a menu
<attente> i want to get the action group working before looking at that
<desrt> maybe we should work together tomorrow.  i wouldn't mind looking at that.
<attente> ok
<attente> also
<desrt> how are you handling the actiongroup API?
<attente> if the menu is build using GtkUIManager, the menus don't appear at all
<desrt> implementing the interface on the GMenuModel of the parser itself or as an auxilliary object?
<attente> auxilliary object
<desrt> good enough
<MCR1> radu: Well, if you make a comprehensive bug report with exact information on how-to-reproduce the bug it *could* be determined from there, but what is easy and what is hard ? - for a foreign coder a English tooltip might be hard to fix, while for a native English-speaker code might be hard to fix, so...
<attente> desrt: i thought this was the better way of doing it
<desrt> attente: possibly
<desrt> considering the menumodel tree is recursive in nature and you want them all to share a single actiongroup...
<seb128> attente, don't worry, the papercut are usually about small usability issues and there is no requirement to get things fixed, it's mostly a matter to try to help the contributors to get their patch in bugzilla up for review or comments ... even if the fix is not right it might be a good step to help getting the issues resolved ;-)
<desrt> it makes the API slightly less awesome, but you don't really have to care about that since it's internal anyway
<notgary> attente: thanks a lot for offering to help. How would you like us to bring you in on the GTK bugs we look at?
<notgary> Also, I think we can consider the official part of the meeting over :)
<notgary> I'll grab the logs later and pick out the things we need to work on and stick them on a wiki page somewhere
<seb128> notgary, attente: I would suggest you just use launchpad bugs for tracking (and maybe open a bugzilla ticket as well) and subscribe attente when there is a patch up for review
<radu> notgary, thanks for hosting this
<notgary> Next time, we'll do this in #ubuntu-meeting, so I don't have to do that :)
<druellan> notgary: thanks a lot
<attente> notgary: are there already bugzilla tickets written up?
<MCR1> notgary: Great Job ! Respect 8-)
<seb128> notgary, attente: I do watch GTK bugs as well so I will make sure we find a way that works for everyone
<attente> seb128: thanks!
<notgary> no problem. Thanks a lot for coming along :)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> 'night
<notgary> good night
<notgary> and thanks for your input earlier
<rigved> hello everyone
<rigved> is the papercuts ninja meeting over?
<Sweetshark> there is a special place in hell for people who think they should barf their random pet bug behaviour into some other unrelated bug because that one has more 'bug heat' and the party looks more fun there as there are lots of inconsistent comments already.
<MCR1> rigved: yep, over.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-23
<Chucrute301> This is true ?
<Chucrute301> www.webupd8.org/2012/11/new-icons-for-ubuntu-software-center.html?m=1
<notgary> Yep, all true. If you want to install them now, then check out this article http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-install-the-13-04-unity-launcher-design-updates
<Chucrute301> Thanks
<mspencer> Hi, is this a good place to ask a question about how to implement a GUI feature like one in Software Center? I've glanced through the code but can't figure it out.
<Chucrute301> sabdfl, soon we will fix this bug  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, comment vas-tu?
<didrocks> pitti: bien occupÃ©, mais Ã§a va! et toi?
<pitti> didrocks: le mÃªme :)
<pitti> didrocks: how is your didrocks.py magic working out?
<didrocks> pitti: worked well yesterday, we added some components for this morning and found a new case, fixing it, adding a test later today and we'll be fine :)
<didrocks> pitti: we are waiting on autopilot to stabilize to have unity running
<pitti> ah, good to hear that there's progress
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: busy, but fine! yourself?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, pretty much the same ;)
<chrisccoulson> trying to make http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/view/head:/debian/tests/mochitest-chrome.json shrink
<didrocks> pitti: do you know how to subscribe a team to every MR for a project? I can't find it againâ¦
<didrocks> the PS projects are really a mess in term of who is subscribed to what
<pitti> didrocks: non, je ne sais pas
<didrocks> pitti: ah, j'ai trouvÃ© :)
<didrocks> pitti: il faut aller sur la page de la branche destination
<chrisccoulson> so, when i upload the work from https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head, we'll have tests running for firefox. but what happens if i want to run the tests for PPA builds too? (ie, daily builds, firefox-next or the security PPA?)
<pitti> didrocks: je crois que c'est impossible :-(
<didrocks> pitti: sisi, c'est bon :)
<didrocks> pitti: sur la branche destination, tu peux changer les subscribers (si tu fais parti de la team)
<chrisccoulson> yay for google translate ;)
<pitti> oh, je n'ai pas trouver Ã§a
<pitti> didrocks: (^ est-ce bon, ou est-il "je n'ai pas le trouver"?)
<didrocks> pitti: "je n'ai pas trouvÃ© Ã§a" ;)
<pitti> en effet, merci
<pitti> didrocks: anyway, I had expected this to be on the code.lp.net/project page, a "subscriptions" somewhere
<didrocks> pitti: no, it's per branch anyway :/
<didrocks> s/anyway/only
<pitti> oh, je le vois maintenant
<seb128> hey desktopers
<dpm> morning seb128
<seb128> hey dpm, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<dpm> I'm good, thanks :)
<seb128> lut pitti, ca va ? t'as des pbs d'accents ?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you ?
<pitti> seb128: oui, ils sont difficile! plaÃ®t vs. plaisir, etc.
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. and you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> pitti, "plait"
<pitti> seb128: "s'il vous plaÃ®t"
<seb128> pitti, the ^ is often used where words used to have "st" and the s got dropped
<pitti> seb128: jr "je achÃ¨te" vs. "nous achetons"
<seb128> forÃªt ~ forest
<pitti> ah, like "hÃ´pital"?
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> plaÃ®t was "ploist" in old french apparently
<pitti> but that's less obvious than why "il connaÃ®t" has an accept, but all other forms don't
<pitti> "accent"
<seb128> pitti, btw the academie say it's correct to use "il plait" without the Ã® in a revision in 1990 so you can find both forms
<seb128> but right, accents are non really consistently used, it's hard to make a rule from it ;-)
<pitti> I also like "possÃ¨de" vs. "possÃ©dez"
<pitti> seb128: how often do native French speakers get these wrong?
<seb128> not often
<pitti> I guess/hope it's not really that important if one gets them the wrong way around
<seb128> they are not pronounced the same way
<seb128> so if you know the prononciation you probably get the writing right
<Laney> ahoy
<seb128> and it's easy for a native speaker to say what sounds right ;-)
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: right, by now I know how to pronounce them; I still need to learn it :)
<Laney> good thanks seb128
<Laney> got that Friday feeling!
<Laney> you?
<seb128> Laney, in troll mood you mean? :p
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks ;-)
<Laney> that's just you :P
<Laney> seems others have that mood on ddl though ...
<seb128> ddl always has that mood ;-)
<sabdfl> morning all
<pitti> hey sabdfl, how are you?
<sabdfl> good thanks!finally settling down after UDS
<sabdfl> how are you guys?
<seb128> sabdfl, hey!
<sabdfl> bonjour seb
<pitti> sabdfl: wow, settling down did take a while then! I'm great, thanks
<sabdfl> pitti, well, i had some videos to record for next year ;)
<sabdfl> which was a week long fury of editing and wordsmithing
<sabdfl> hope folk will like the result!
<sabdfl> geez, did we just go from firefox 16 to 17 to 18 in a week?!
<chrisccoulson> bah, connection died when i docked
<chrisccoulson> sabdfl, you sound surprised about that? ;)
<sabdfl> chrisccoulson, heh. only marginally
<chrisccoulson> i love it when tests fail intermittently. especially when they only fail if you run them after 1.5 hours of other tests, and don't ever fail when you run them individually :/
<didrocks> pitti: I would appreciate some bumps on https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4006584 and https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build/+build/4006580 to avoid finishing during the night :)
<pitti> there :)
 * didrocks hugs pitti for saving his night
<pitti> de rien :)
<pitti> didrocks: did you use autopilot for a test of your own already?
<pitti> thomi seems to be AFK
<didrocks> pitti: no, I'm just a user of it and packaged it, but that's it
<didrocks> pitti: if you need some people using it, maybe try #ubuntu-unity?
<pitti> ah merci, je vais le fair
<pitti> e
<larsu> seb128, erm, that patch in bug 881135 is definitely not against indicator-application
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 881135 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "IBus indicator "missing icon"-icon shown when input method is enabled" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/881135
<larsu> looks more like libappindicator
<larsu> ya, libappindicator, but it doesn't look like it will still apply. Do you know if this is even still an issue?
<seb128> larsu, oh sorry, I forgot that the lib was a separate source ;-) no idea, I was just looking at ibus issues and found that with a patch so I reassigned
<seb128> larsu, it would probably be fair to ask details to the submitter and if the issue is still valid
<larsu> seb128, going through the log, it looks like it was fixed in r232, for bug 885080
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 885080 in libappindicator "the ibus' indicator fallback icon doesn't have a proper name" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885080
<larsu> seb128, I'll comment
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<mpt> seb128, hey, once Kazam gets a bit more polish and bug-fixing I'd like to propose it for replacing gnome-screenshot by default. What would be best way to propose it?
<seb128> mpt, email ubuntu-desktop list with the suggestion
<mpt> seb128, ok. What would happen next? Who would make the decision?
<seb128> mpt, we will have a list discussion with people for or against, if there is a consensus we will follow it, if not Jason and/or I will decide
<mpt> seb128, understood. Thanks. :-)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<mpt> BigWhale, ^^
<BigWhale> mpt, yes?
<BigWhale> oh ok..
<BigWhale> I see.
<BigWhale> mpt, the only functionality that gnome-screenshot has over Kazam is capturing directly to clipboard. I didn't know it existed.
<BigWhale> :)
<chrisccoulson> pmsl @ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.dev.apps.firefox/jpX_z5zieD4/4i20rLFEKnEJ
<didrocks> the powerpc builds are still "starting in 1 minute :/" for one hour and half now
<Laney> they've got some long running builds going
<chrisccoulson> w00t, another test failure down: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/revision/1432
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: great!
<mhr3> larsu, ping?
<larsu> mhr3, is that a question?
 * larsu is unsure what the answer is
<mhr3> larsu, you probably do lots of tests with dbus, right? is there something that makes it easy now? cause we're for example using special make target (check-headless) which spawns a xvfb before each test etc... isn't this all somehow nicely integrated in dbus-test-runner or somewhere?
<mhr3> ie i want something less racy and easier to use
<larsu> mhr3, right, I have the same questions, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask :)
<larsu> pitti might know more
<mhr3> i wanted to ask ted, but today's not a good day :)
<mhr3> pitti, make our lives race-free
<larsu> :)
<pitti> dbus-test-runner sorts out the dbus spawning, but it's not related to xvfb
<mhr3> i mean pitti, sudo make our lives race-free
<pitti> xvfb-run <app> isn't so bad, though?
<mhr3> xvfb-run? oh that sounds interesting
<mhr3> i knew the sudo would cut it :)
<pitti> oh, how else do you use xvfb?
<mhr3> you don't want to know
<pitti> in most cases I just do dbus-launch xvfb-run foo
<pitti> (you need to kill the spawned dbus afterwards, but that's secondary)
<mhr3> won't xvfb-run dbus-test-runner fix all our problems?
<pitti> mhr3: yes, it should; I just avoid dbus-test-runner in upstream GNOME tests as it's not that widespread yet and only solves a tiny problem
<pitti> (i. e. avoiding the extra kill command to destroy the dbus-daemon after the tests)
<pitti> and with Gio.TestDBus it's even easier
 * desrt big yawn
 * larsu hands desrt virtual coffee
<attente> desrt: should we meet today?
<desrt> attente: good question!
<desrt> my desire to leave the house today is low, but we could :)
 * desrt looks outside.  yuck.
<attente> yeah.. i looked outside too
<chrisccoulson>  you mean that you actually leave the house? i leave the house once every 6 months
<chrisccoulson> for UDS!
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<Chucrute301> crapy coffe
<attente> chrisccoulson, ha
<chrisccoulson> :)
<xnox> how can I build a unity source package from lp:unity ? Should I be forcing it to be native?
<xnox> (6.12.0 tarball already exists in the archive, but if I use that one dpkg-source fails to create a new source package due to binary changes (images))
<seb128> xnox, yeah, force it to be native
<xnox> seb128: cool.
<xnox> seb128: is that the plan going forward? cause then maybe the .bzr-builddeb/default.conf should be updated.
<seb128> xnox, not sure, the daily jobs create a orig tarball
<desrt> seb128: how much effort is an SRU?
<desrt> seb128: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622140
<ubot2> Debian bug 622140 in neon27 "neon27: symbol SSLv2_server_method used" [Serious,Fixed]
<desrt> seb128: that's fixed in the quantal package, but still broken on precise
<didrocks> xnox: seb128: don't use native
<didrocks> xnox: just bump artifically the version if needed
<didrocks> it's in split mode
<seb128> desrt, seems like a good candidate for a SRU ... efforts, well it depends, you need a testcase so the SRU can be verified, that can be work to write one
<desrt> seb128: "compile libmusicbrainz"
<seb128> desrt, that's a valid testcase ;-)
<desrt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neon27/+bug/845901 is our bug, btw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 845901 in neon27 (Ubuntu) "libneon can't find SSLv2_server_method" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xnox> didrocks: in that case, what will be the next version number released from lp:unity? 6.12.1 ?
<seb128> desrt, your comment suggest it works if you install the right package?
 * xnox wants to be above current, but below next release. Sould I use 6.12.0+ then?
<desrt> seb128: there are two variants of libneon
<xnox> (locally)
<desrt> one is linked against openssl and the other is linked against gnutls
<seb128> desrt, well anyway if you want an SRU a link to the commit/diff and subscribing ubuntu-sponsors would be good
<desrt> only the version linked against openssl has the problem
<didrocks> xnox: just bump locally, the daily system is bumping automatically the version
<didrocks> so 6.12.0.1 :)
<didrocks> xnox: I'm still under discussion with upstream, we'll surely bump to 7
<desrt> seb128: found a patch in the debian packaging.  will upload.
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> seb128: okay.  did all of that.  someone should magically appear and SRU it now?
<xnox> didrocks: where is the "daily system" ? e.g. which version numbers does that use?
<seb128> desrt, yeah, where "someone" is usually a sponsor/patch pilot
<desrt> good enough.  no rush.
 * desrt just uses the gnutls version for now
<seb128> desrt, bonus point if you make the bug SRU compliant (e.g write "Impact" "Test Case" "Regression Potential" sections in the description)
<didrocks> xnox: will be <major_upstream>dailyYY.MM.DD
<didrocks> xnox: so I want to simplify with time the "major_upstream" to be just 6, 7, 8â¦
<desrt> seb128: is it considered kosher to edit someone else's post like that?
 * desrt is not the OP
<xnox> didrocks: ack.
<seb128> desrt, the description at the top of the bug is supposed to be a clean summary and is editable for that reason ;-) (and you have a link to show the original description)
<seb128> desrt, comments are not editable
<Laney> I usually keep it with [ Original Description ] or similar
<seb128> I tend to clean, like I drop the dump of apport infos often
<seb128> but I keep the original small summary if it makes sense under a ------------ line
<desrt> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/neon27/+bug/845901
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 845901 in neon27 (Ubuntu) "libneon can't find SSLv2_server_method" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<desrt> looks good?
<desrt> seb128: seems that every package we have in the archive uses the libneon27-gnutls variant... so nobody ever noticed this problem with the openssl version (which has 0 rdepends)
<seb128> desrt, yes, thanks!
<seb128> desrt, how did you end up with the openssl version? ;-)
<desrt> seb128: some package tells you that it needs libneon
<desrt> libneon27-dev seems like the most logical thing to install
<desrt> simply dropping that package from precise would probably also solve my problem :p
<didrocks> jibel: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/cu2d/view/Indicators%20Head/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/ \o/
<didrocks> jibel: trying now to approve manually
<didrocks> jibel: hum, didn't work that well
<jibel> bzr: ERROR: Parent not accessible given base "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/indicator-appmenu/" and relative path "../../../+branch/indicator-appmenu/"
<jibel> didrocks, again
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I'll change the config, one sec
 * didrocks hates bzr sometimes
<didrocks> ok, trying again
<didrocks> and same for datetimeâ¦
<didrocks> and a bzr config laterâ¦
<didrocks> phew, good now :)
<didrocks> jibel: I think we'll need to couple that to the "deploy stack" script
 * didrocks writes it down
<didrocks> and: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/raring-changes/2012-November/001787.html
<didrocks> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/raring-changes/2012-November/001788.html
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some hours, will be back later and do some catching up before calling it a week
<smspillaz> somebody pinged me and I don't know who it was ...
<didrocks> smspillaz: go to bed! :)
<desrt> i love our privacy commissioner
<cyphermox> privacy commissioner?
<desrt> cyphermox: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/11/22/calgary-budget-privacy.html
<cyphermox> ah, that's my bad for thinking about Ubuntu all the time and not politics :P
 * desrt <3 <3 <3 canada's crazy privacy laws
<desrt> in canada taking a photocopy of someone's drivers licence is illegal
<desrt> in the US they wonder why you don't also take a urine sample
<cyphermox> hehe
<jbicha> desrt: you don't have anything to hide, do you? ;)
<cyphermox> jbicha: dunno, even then, a driver's license holds quite a lot of information that most people don't need to keep
<jbicha> cyphermox: yeah I was giving the typical American response though :)
<gema> in the uk nobody can take a photocopy of your passport or driving license, you have to do it yourself, they have selfservice machines in every photocopy place
<cyphermox> the least information is distributed and held in various places, the least chances for stupid mistakes like my previous employer failing to clean up computers holding employee information before sending them to be scrapped
<desrt> indeed
<desrt> the canadian approach to the problem appeals to me greatly as someone who has had the concept of least-privilege drilled into their head
 * Laney stabs paste.u.c
<Laney> authentication to download raw pastes, really?
<cyphermox> Laney: yeah :/
<desrt> Laney: fpaste is your friend
<Laney> anything else is
<Laney> the ubuntu one is the default for pastebinit though
<desrt> pastebinit has an rc file
<cyphermox> Laney: you can change that via config
<Laney> i'm aware
<Laney> i don't usually config stuff in chroots though
<cyphermox> let me pastebinit mine for you ;)
<desrt> .pastebinit.xml rather
<cyphermox> (to paste.u.c)
<Laney> or in the cloud, or whatever
<cyphermox> Laney: otoh, -b is your friend
<achiang> cyphermox: pushed a version string fix for https://code.launchpad.net/~achiang/network-manager-applet/precise-lp780602/+merge/135586
<xnox> Laney: yeah, I think stgraber switched to debian pastbin by default (allows downloads)
<stgraber> xnox: nope, I haven't, the default pastebin depends on the lsb distro reported by the system
<stgraber> xnox: ubuntu pastes still go to paste.u.c
<desrt> stgraber: can you modify pastebinit to comply with the xdg basedir spec?
<desrt> ie: ~/.config/pastebinit.xml
<stgraber> paste.debian.net is bad for quite a few other reasons... pastes need to be at least 3 lines long, you can't go over a given number of columns and lines, ... it's quite restrictive
<desrt> (but don't hardcode ~/.config/ -- follow the spec properly)
<desrt> stgraber: fpaste is a pretty good one
<stgraber> desrt: yeah, I'm rewriting pastebinit entirely so will try to remember to do that when I'm working on the settings (unlikely to stay as xml)
<desrt> worst thing it does is ask you to fill a captcha if the paste is old
<desrt> stgraber: gsettings!!
<desrt> :)
<stgraber> desrt: 90% of my users aren't on desktop systems :)
<desrt> stgraber: 100% of your users already have glib installed
<Laney> stgraber: what if you forgot to set the ubuntu default in the rewrite ...
<stgraber> desrt: it's sadly true... though gsettings without a storage backend probably doesn't make a lot of sense :) (I just checked and even though I indeed have glib pretty much everywhere, I don't have dconf)
<desrt> stgraber: fair enough
<stgraber> Laney: I'll need to poke IS about it again, there are a lot of things that are quite wrong with paste.u.c which once fixed should make it good enough that we can drop the openid for /plain
<Laney> I asked for it once IIRC
<Laney> apparently people were using it to host malware
<desrt> ya.  that's tricky.
<stgraber> sure, but just ask for a captcha if the paste has been queried more than 5 times
<desrt> hm.  maybe that's what fpaste does
 * desrt got the impression that it was strictly time-based though
<stgraber> and last I checked paste.u.c had much worse issue than that. There was no size limit on what you could post.
<stgraber> I believe I have a few 50MB binary pastes that I created when trying to detect the size limit for all the pastebins supported by pastebinit :)
 * desrt discovers cool feature of gnome-shell notifications: they're activity based
<desrt> instead of having a timeout for how long they're shown they seem to have a timeout for how long they're shown after you interact with the desktop
<desrt> (ie: solves the problem of getting a notification while you're away from your desk)
<robru> desrt, yeah, I quite miss that feature since switching to Unity
<desrt> it can't be too hard to implement...
<robru> all you'd need is some kind of idle timer. Does Gdk have an API for that, or would it have to be in the session mananagement logic?
<robru> obviously there's already an idle timer that decides when to activate the screensaver...
<desrt> well
<desrt> the notifications are in the window manager...
<desrt> i guess it has some sort of higher level concepts about session activity :)
 * larsu thinks the concept of ephemeral notifications is broken anyway
<larsu> I might miss it even if I interact with the session in some way
<robru> larsu, agreed. Gnome Shell's notifications are superior in many ways. ;-)
<larsu> robru, I'm saying they're not: any timeout on a notification is wrong
<robru> larsu, but it's easier to miss the unity ones than the shell ones.
<larsu> robru, the ephemeral ones, yes. But most "notifications" stay in the panel until you interact with it (best example is the messaging menu)
<larsu> I hate the bubbles, if you mean those :)
<robru> yeah, that's what I mean, larsu. I hate that they offer no way to get to the program they're notifying about. Shell really has that figured out a lot nicer I think, click on the notification to go to the program that's notifying. makes it easier/faster to find things
<mspencer> mpt: png re. Contributor Console
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end :)
<achiang> cyphermox: do you think i should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to my MP to help offload you?
<cyphermox> achiang: not necessary, I will look at it right after I'm done with overlay-scrollbar here
<cyphermox> (actually, I'll just upload it to -proposed)
<achiang> cyphermox: ah, ok. i know you're busy so just trying to make your life easier
<cyphermox> np.. but I'll be on it in a minute, I really want to look at other things than indicators for a little bit
<achiang> :)
<cyphermox> nm-applet needs an upload to raring too to get the shiny nm-connection-editor overhaul
<cyphermox> achiang: as soon as sbuild completes successfully it will be uploaded
<achiang> \o/
<cyphermox> I don't see why it would fail, and I even went to look at API code again for one of the patches, because it seemed wrong
<cyphermox> (but it's not)
<Chucrute301>  
<mspencer> I'm working on creating Contributor Console based on the specifications at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole. For questions I have related to the spec, should I contact the author specifically? Also, should I email him directly or talk to him in this channel?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-24
<mspencer> I'm working on creating Contributor Console based on the specifications at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole. For questions I have related to the spec, should I contact the author specifically? Also, should I email him directly or talk to him in this channel?
<xnox> mspencer: for some design questions it helps me a lot to file a small bug with a specific question & add tag "needs-design"
<xnox> mspencer: and then eventually ping mpt to review all of those bugs "needs-design" in bulk =)
<mspencer> xnox: file it in contributor-console?
<xnox> mspencer: yeap.
<mspencer> xnox: even questions like what am I to use for icons, etc?
<xnox> mspencer: by default mpt usually draws stuff that doesn't exist anywhere beforehand. Just write code away & use whiever icons are available (glade is very helpful browsing all available stock icons)
<mspencer> xnox: He uses an icon that looks like the bazaar icon but I think I can't use that do to licensing. So my question would be what does he want for that?
<xnox> mspencer: i'm sure you can use the bazaar icon.
<xnox> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/bzr-panel.svg
<xnox> is shipped in the bzr-gtk package.
 * xnox thinks that icon is also available in plain bzr or maybe bzr-doc packages.
<mspencer> xnox: I thought I could use the bazaar, but I asked on #launchpad but was told that it was "LP icons are propoetary and only used for development and test usage"
<xnox> mspencer: bzr icon != launchpad icon
<mspencer> xnox: Okay, I didn't think about that.
<xnox> mspencer: see /usr/share/doc/bzr-gtk/copyright GPL-2+
<mspencer> xnox: Do I need to use icons that look as close to what mpt put or can I use icons that represent the same purpose?
<xnox> icons can always be improved later =)
<xnox> good night & have fun coding =)
<mspencer> xnox: Good night and thanks for your help!
<Chucrute301> lets discuss about new ubuntu icons?
<mspencer> Chucrute301: Are you directing that to me?
<Chucrute301> no, why?
<mspencer> Chucrute301: I was talking with xnox about icons and no one else replied to you so I wan't sure if that was meant for me.
<desrt> jbicha: getting annoyed by gnome-disk-utility as well, hm? :P)
<mspencer> I'm working on Contributor Console based on the specification https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributorConsole. Should I create a blueprint based on the wiki spec?
<desrt> mspencer: blueprints are really only useful as a framework around which to organise UDS sessions and their results
<desrt> and they're kinda meaningless unless they get approved
<desrt> which usually only happens at/around UDS
<mspencer> desrt: Thanks
<mspencer> desrt: So in my case would I ever have a need to use blueprints?
<desrt> mspencer: to be honest i'm not sure where you should track the kind of work that you're doing
<desrt> maybe put a link in the wiki to your git repository or something?
<mspencer> desrt: mpt has linked to the launchpad project from the spec.
<desrt> ah.  great.
<desrt> so just push stuff there :p
<desrt> i guess the most important thing is to ensure that nobody comes along and duplicates your efforts in a different place
<mspencer> For new features to the program do I need to talk to the author of the spec?
<desrt> i guess you should talk to mpt?
<mspencer> desrt: Am I free to modify the wiki page to say that the project has been started or do I need to get mpt to do that?
<desrt> mspencer: i guess you should feel free... it's just a wiki page
<desrt> but definitely try to talk to mpt on IRC
<mspencer> desrt: In this channel?
<desrt> mspencer: he'll probably be around during european working hours
<desrt> and yes.. he's usually in this channel
<mspencer> I don't want anyone to duplicate my work so far - should I wait to talk to mpt or should I update the wiki page now?
<mspencer> So far it says "but â¦ it doesnât exist yet." and points to the launchpad project I started.
<mspencer> How do I go about getting other people to help me with the project? Specifically, how do I find someone to create the main icon for the program?
<jbicha> desrt: you mean the problem with trying to jhbuild gnome-disk-utility?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> utter utter nonsense
<desrt> git master gnome-disk-utility depends on an unreleased(!) udisks and davidz is actively campaigning to have udisks excluded from jhbuild
<desrt> so like uh.... how the hell is that supposed to work?
 * desrt will have to talk to him on monday
<jbicha> yeah it breaks jhbuild pretty bad
<desrt> well
<desrt> fortunately gvfs no longer depends on disk-utility
<desrt> so the breakage is actually fairly small these days
<desrt> just fails the metamodule
<jbicha> I was going to try submitting a patch for g-d-u but didn't bother when I ran into that
<jbicha> I was surprised that g-c-c still depends on systemd but I guess that's being worked on
<desrt> jbicha: i have a patch
<desrt> it's in bugzilla... i just apply it before i build g-c-c
<desrt> i got stuck working on some high-priority 'internal' stuff so i haven't been able to finish that up
<jbicha> yay skunkworks!
<happyaron> jbicha: hi, recently Ma Xiaojun has shown his frustration about the ibus intergration of GNOME \o/
<happyaron> he was the only input method user who supported that intergration in action
<happyaron> I'd like to try to persuade you to use --disable-ibus as I've already suggested on Debian BTS.
<jbicha> happyaron: already done, Raring is using gnome-control-center and gnome-settings-daemon 3.6.3 with --disable-ibus
<happyaron> good to know that. current 3.8 has a totally broken input method experience, details are in desktop-devel-list, let's see what are the reaction of GNOME people then.
<jbicha> ricotz: hey is there any reason I shouldn't backport gnome-control-center 3.6 to the gnome3 ppa for quantal?
<ricotz> jbicha, hi, i don't think so, should be fine if you grab the unity-settings-panel too then
<jbicha> ricotz: right, I'll have the quantal g-c-c recommend that
<ricotz> good ;)
<jbicha> ricotz: I think we should having a separate experimental GNOME3 PPA for 3.8 for raring
<ricotz> jbicha, there is gnome3/gnome3-staging which already have some 3.7.x stuff
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+packages
<jbicha> ricotz: oh, cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-25
<forage> Hi, is there anyone of the GNOME3 Team (ppa) available?
<forage> For some reason I don't see an option to report new bugs in their Bugs section on launchpad
<mitya57> forage, there shouldn't be such an option
<forage> :-S ok?
<forage> then how should one report a bug?
<mitya57> forage, as most packages are already in raring archives, just report a bug against ubuntu package
<mitya57> or, if the issue is not ubuntu-specific, report it upstream
<forage> updating to gnome-themes-standard 3.6.2 and gnome-accessibility-themes 3.6.2 of the gnome3 ppa will cause the login screen to not appear at all
<forage> just a rotating mouse pointer in the bottom right of the screen
<forage> mitya57: how come the gnome3 ppa does provide a gnome-themes-standard package update to 3.6.2 but it isn't listed in the package list? https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3?field.series_filter=quantal
<forage> the build list does include the package again: https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+builds?build_state=built
<mitya57> forage, strange... it is published according to http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-themes-standard/
<mitya57> the build was finished 6 hours ago, so maybe that page will be updated soon
<jbicha> mitya57: yes, gnome-themes-standard in the gnome3 PPA for quantal was badly broken so I removed it as a temporary fix
<jbicha> my current theory is that the new g-t-s needs a newer gtk+3.0 so I'm testing that now
<mitya57> forage: ^
<mitya57> jbicha, thanks!
<jbicha> sudo apt-get install gnome-themes-standard=3.6.0.2-0ubuntu1
<jbicha> gnome-accessibility-themes=3.6.0.2-0ubuntu1
<jbicha> will get you back to a working version
<forage> jbicha: yeah, reverting was what got me a usable system again ;-)
<jbicha> ok, the GNOME3 PPA problem is fixed
<Chucrute301> Anyone have tested the new ubuntu icons?
<jbicha> desrt: so instead of ubuntu-control-center, how about something like empathy-ubuntu?
<desrt> jbicha: that makes slightly less sense in my opinion
<desrt> although i'd still support it
<jbicha> desrt: are you on quantal or raring?
<desrt> q
<jbicha> have you seen the latest gnome-control-center (it's in the GNOME3 PPA)? it's several steps cleaner on GNOME than quantal 3.4 was
<jbicha> yeah, empathy-ubuntu would be messy
<desrt> jbicha: i'm jhbuilding daily so i've been seeing it
<desrt> jbicha: oh... you mean the latest 3.6... not the _latest_ :p
<jbicha> more specifically, the latest as packaged in Ubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-18
<pitti> darkxst: to 0.99? that requires grepping the archive for everything that uses suspend/hibernate etc. and porting it to logind, or to the new upower API
<pitti> darkxst: so, would be nice, but as we stay with an old GNOME I don't know yet how much effort it would be
<pitti> darkxst: but we'd most certainly need the current 3.12 settings-daemon at least
<darkxst> pitti, right, quite a few patches in g-s-d for the new upower api
<darkxst> other components don't seem so bad, but only looked at gnome bits
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, hey ;-)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128, comment allez-vous ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi?
<didrocks> mais j'ai dÃ» mettre le chauffage
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien aussi, nous avons eu un week-end trÃ¨s calme
<pitti> didrocks: ici aussi, le premier fois aprÃ¨s l'Ã©tÃ© :/
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a va bien merci !
<pitti> oh, "la premiÃ¨re fois", oui ?
<seb128> j'ai allumÃ© le chauffage depuis qu'on est rentrÃ© de Californie...
<didrocks> seb128: ouai, mais t'habite dans le nord lointain :)
<seb128> Ã§a fait 15j qu'il fait < 10Â°C
<seb128> didrocks, voilÃ  :p
<Laney> good morning!
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Laney> hey seb128, good thank you - went up north for the weekend, was quite relaxing
<Laney> you?
<seb128> I had a relaxing w.e as well, thanks ;-)
<seb128> some shopping and played video games
<seb128> oh, and I went to see "gravity"
<seb128> nice use of 3d ;-)
<Laney> oh yeah, everyone says that film is excellent
<seb128> pitti, do we have a command/UI to enable reports from apport to launchpad?
<pitti> seb128: sudo sed -i '/problem_types/ s/^/#/' /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<pitti> perhaps?
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I keep forgetting what to change (and it's also not trivial to tell users "ok, need a bt for your problem, re-enable apport by edit that file and changing that line)
<pitti> right, that's copy&pasteable
 * seb128 wishes it would be easier to see the e.u.c reports linked to a launchpad account
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> larsu, how is the gtk/o-s issue going?
<larsu> seb128: gtk clips child windows on the allocation of the widget now. The overlay-scrollbar module gives scrollbars a 0-width allocation and adds two windows to the scrollbar which are only shown when necessary. These don't show up anymore because they're clipped
<larsu> I see two solutions: (1) have a gtk patch that doesn't clip
<larsu> (2) add the windows to the toplevel
<larsu> (1) is ugly, (2) gives all kinds of positioning problems
<larsu> like, I have scrollbars in the middle of windows :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> is the clipping there for a good reason?
<larsu> I'm trying to find that out right now. It seems to be related to the new way expose events are propagated
<larsu> (i.e., not at all for non-native widgets)
<seb128> hum, k, good luck, let me know if I can help for something...
<seb128> (seems like you should maybe bounce a few more questions to alex on how to resolve it)
<larsu> yep, thanks.
<larsu> I talked to him again on Friday, but will probably have new questions today
<seb128> (who knows, he might have a clever idea)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Laney, can you confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1251729 ? localized searches work here
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1251729 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "[search] Localized searches don't return results" [Undecided,In progress]
<Laney> which one did you try?
<seb128> several ones
<seb128> "son" for "sound"
<seb128> "jours" for "updates"
<Laney> I made it german and then searched for Funknetzwerke â no results
<Laney> It might just be because that string isn't tranlsated
<Laney> nope, it is
<Laney> (obviously, it's being displayed)
<seb128> Funknetzwerke works here
<mlankhorst> oh morning
<Laney> "Wi-Fi" QVariant(QStringList, ("network", "wireless", "wifi", "wi-fi", "settings", "Wi-Fi") )
<Laney> should be translated, hmm
<Laney> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> seems wine broke on out of tree builds, sigh :P
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> how do I add custom strings to a translation template?
<Laney> the keywords in u-s-s aren't necessarily translated
<seb128> Laney, oh, right ... I'm not sure there is an official way, it seems that the usual method is to transform the format to a known one (like a desktop style _value=...)
<Laney> I found a bug in the translation stuff that made it not work ever (for me)
<Laney> but there is also this
<Laney> I'll just write some script to mangle it then
<mlankhorst> bleh
<mlankhorst> how am I supposed to get a MRE without tb? :P
<Laney> there is a TB of one
<mlankhorst> so either there will be unanimous acceptance or rejecting
<seb128> Laney, shrug, it seems we regressed on the translation stuff with the port to cmake
<Laney> oh?
<seb128> Laney, I don't even find how to generate the .pot with the current build system
<Laney> there's definitely a command in there to do that
<seb128> which one?
<Laney> look in po/CMakeLists.txt
<Laney> don't know how you run it ...
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> I overlooked those stuff when I acked it :/
<seb128> I don't think that's functional
<seb128> Laney, we also had custom commands for e.g the .settings
<seb128> settingsfiles.commands = awk \'BEGIN { FS=\": \" }; /name/ {print \"var s = i18n.tr(\" \$$2 \");\"}\' $${SETTINGSFILES} | tr -d ',' > $${SETTINGSFILETEMP}
<seb128> that got dropped
<Laney> bah
<seb128> Laney, ^ btw that's the hackery I was talking about, I did that back then for getting the names in the template
<Laney> well, that's the kind of thing
<Laney> you wrote that?
<Laney> that's some fun awk!
<seb128> I remember skipping the keywords because I didn't know how to do it for the multiple lines :p
<seb128> yes... ;-)
<Laney> oh hah
<Laney> I am writing a python script to do it
<seb128> might be nicer/easier to maintain
<seb128> I used awk because I started from a qmake example doing something similar
<seb128> I just had to tweak the awk command for our syntax
 * Laney nods
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey, could you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1197921 and sponsor the patch it you think it's fine for a SRU?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1197921 in pixman (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice spreadsheet causes full Xorg crash with Anti-Aliasing enabled" [High,Triaged]
<mlankhorst> seb128: was really hoping for a reply from upstream first :P
<mlankhorst> particularly since fixing it means doing 7 uploads
<seb128> mlankhorst, ok ... why? that bug has a debdiff for pixman only, no?
<mlankhorst> oh right it is
<mlankhorst> in that case I want the commit upstream first :P
<mlankhorst> hm I guess it is
<mlankhorst> 0.31.2 has the fix
<seb128> do we have the fix is trusty? if not we should maybe start by that
<mlankhorst> I think I fixed it in xorg-server there, but not pixman
<mlankhorst> which is a good enough workaround. :P
<Laney> ok, got it working
 * Laney stabs cmake
<mlankhorst> seb128: but I don't think I can upload a new pixman version, and allioth is down :(
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> should probably filter out things which differ in case only
<seb128> mlankhorst, ok, let me know if you need sponsoring ... no hurry but it would be nice to get that fix in/SRUed
<seb128> Laney, you mean? for translations?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> the keywords are all lower case
<seb128> that seems hackish
<Laney> what then?
<Laney> you get them twice in the template otherwise
<Laney> "sound" and "Sound"
<seb128> you would check the UI string to see if there is one identical-noy-counting-the-case and input or not depending on that?
<mlankhorst> seb128: yeah but I prefer it to be fixed in saucy first. I intend to backport pixman to the previous versions anyway.
<Laney> oh no just within this file
<seb128> oh ok
<mlankhorst> once I get a MRE, anyway..
<seb128> that seems alright then
<Laney> hmm, maybe not
<seb128> mlankhorst, ok
<Laney> let me check if we downcase it before searching
<mlankhorst> but we'd need that in trusty first
<seb128> Laney, we should do case-insensitive search
<Laney> I think that does happen
<seb128> mlankhorst, right, is that blocked on alioth to be back?
<mlankhorst> I guess we can do it without allioth, but I won't be able to sync the changes
<mlankhorst> seb128: maybe upload 0.32.0 to debian first, then syncpackage it to trusty, and fix saucy separately?
<seb128> mlankhorst, your call, being in sync with Debian would be better yes, once we have the fix in trusty we can backport to saucy/precise then
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, how are you?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Well thanks.  You?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure if you did read your after w.e emails yet, Carlos commited a fix for the GTK scrolling issues
<seb128> ups
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, ^
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry ;-)
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Heh, too many Chris's.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, would you be able to test it/confirm if it works or not?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, I can upload to trusty/saucy if it's confirmed to work
<notchrisccoulson> seb128 ;)
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Yeah, I saw that.  I'm going to build it today and try it.
<seb128> notchrisccoulson, hey ;-) how are you?
<notchrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks
<notchrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, thanks, let me know!
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Although from our LP bug reports, it's looking like it doesn't fix it - at least for our bugs.
<seb128> notchrisccoulson, I'm good thanks ;-)
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: If this is true, I'll try to get teh debug output.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, well, at least upstream has a clue about the issue and added debug code, so maybe he's going to look more at it if it's still an issue
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, who knows, maybe the user who tested didn't do it correctly as well...
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Right.  I'd like to help however I can to get this nailed.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, ok, step one is to test their commit ... let me know how that goes!
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Ok, will do.
<seb128> thanks
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: np!
<mlankhorst> hm looks like it's the safest to do a simple bugfix 0.30.0-3
<cyphermox> good morning!
<seb128> cyphermox, hey! how are you?
<cyphermox> surviving
<cyphermox> I was woken up by strong wind and my cat at 4 am :)
<seb128> that doesn't sound like a good week start
<seb128> oh
<seb128> so you say morning in the mid of your day? ;-)
<cyphermox> I just made spaghetti sauce half-asleep before loging in :)
<cyphermox> heheh
<cyphermox> seb128: good news
<cyphermox> I got a usable stack trace for the wpa bug
<seb128> oh, nice!
<seb128> cyphermox, is that enough to give you a clue about the issue?
<cyphermox> oh yeah
<cyphermox> I know exactly what it is, just need to figure out how to fix it
<seb128> excellent
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: The gtk patch did not fix the issues we are seeing.  I got some debug output and I'll attach it to the upstream bug and comment on the LP bugs.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, thanks!
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: np
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, you tested only under compiz? or did you test e.g xfce as well?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Actually, a better repro case is to open a Gtk app such as gedit, make sure there is enough text in the window to allow scrolling, unfocus the window, and then try scrolling in the gedit window with the wheel on a USB mouse.
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: I'm quite sure this is also what is causing the Compiz issue as well.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, ok, I'm just trying to see if we have a testcase easier than "try under Unity", since those guys mostly run fedora I think
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: The case I mentioned above may affect Fedora as well.  At least I think it would as it doesn't seem Unity (or any other desktop) specific.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, good ;-)
<mlankhorst> seb128: pixman 0.30.2-2 accepted to unstable :P
<seb128> mlankhorst, great!
<mlankhorst> I guess launchpad will automatically pick it up now
<seb128> yes, since we are in sync
<mlankhorst> maybe it will even close the lp bug for me
<seb128> Laney, oh, webkit round3 ? ;-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> it kept getting OOM killed on the porter box
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> but got to the link stage ...
<Laney> so thought it was worth a try
<seb128> I wonder if 2.3 fixes the s-c issue, probably not
<Laney> doubt it
<Laney> I still never even got that to happen
<seb128> Laney, weird, since the trusty update I just have to run s-c and it hits that bug
<Laney> maybe it tickles some driver specific thing
<Laney> I've nvidia on both machines
<Laney> well, nouveau on the desktop iirc
<seb128> Mirv, I've commented on your ppu wikipage, sorry for the delay
<seb128> (I see that didrocks didn't do it either so I'm not last ;-)
<seb128> Laney, yeah, maybe
<seb128> Laney, btw did you plan to get the Debian goa in? You said they splitted the gtk part
<seb128> Laney, is do you want to do that with the update/new eds?
<Laney> yes, after webkit
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~laney/+archive/gnome-transition/ is ready
<seb128> great
<seb128> I didn't know you continued on that, I though you had it on the side since I said I would have a look
<seb128> less work for me in any case, I like it ;-)
<Laney> :-)
<Laney> bah, forgot to include the arm64 patch in series
<seb128> Laney, do you think it's worth a call for testing on the desktop list? or it's just early in the cycle and a few of us running it for sanity check and giving +1 should do?
<Laney> will this hell ever end
<didrocks> Mirv: seb128: yeah, I'm guilty :p
<seb128> Laney, yeah, webkit is "fun", been there some cycles ago :/
<Laney> might as well see if ppc builds
<Laney> and I guess it'd be nice if some of us in the team ran the stuff
<Laney> didn't really intend to do a wider call, hmm
<seb128> let me opt in and see how that goes
<Laney> there's some theme problems in evo
<Laney> didn't try UOA with 2fa yet to see if that is better
<seb128> what sort of problems in evo?
<Laney> the frame around emails is black
<seb128> oh, theming issues
<seb128> hum
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> I guess we can fix those later
<seb128> Laney, it wants to remove mcp-account-manager-uoa ... normal?
<seb128> nautilus-sendto-empathy as well
<seb128> oh, empathy
<seb128> oh, that's because the trusty version is newer
<Laney> ah yeah
<Laney> I should rebuild it in the ppa
<Laney> sec
<seb128> Laney, that's ok, I did install empathy=ppa-version
<Laney> you probably have to install evolution-data-server-uoa manually
<Laney> I don't think I made anything pull that in eyt
<seb128> calling a day, have a good everynight everyone
<Laney> see you
<kenvandine> i think i need to turn the AC on again... grrr
<mterry> robru, what was that script you were using to quickly bring up a VM again?
<robru> mterry, https://github.com/robru/vagrant-desktop-images so handy ;-)
<mterry> robru, about to test some SRUs, immediately thought of you  :)
<robru> mterry, lemme know if you hit any snags. sometimes it's a bit flaky, but all errors are recoverable. i can help you
<mterry> k
<mterry> robru, lucid isn't supported?  :(
<mterry> robru, looks like not your fault but still makes me sad
<robru> mterry, yeah, no lucid vagrant images are provided unfortunately
<TheMuso`> And lucid desktop is no longer supported.
<robru> TheMuso`, good point. mterry ^^
<mterry> TheMuso`, true.  But I want an easy way to test an SRU for server, and I like pretty GUIs  :)
<robru> mterry, haha. well actually these desktop images are created from cloud images, so it's a little bit suspect that we're not producing cloud images for lucid, which are still supported. I forget who to poke about that...
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-19
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hey!
<Laney> greetings from my new markus ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: \o/
<Laney> didrocks: thanks for the advice!
<didrocks> you like it? ;)
<didrocks> I guess always better than the one which was broken during the week-end anyway :p
<Laney> yep, enjoying the lumbar support
<Laney> yesterday I was sitting on a garden chair ...
<didrocks> glad to hear it!
<didrocks> ahah ;)
<seb128> Laney, didrocks: you tall guys :p
<didrocks> seb128: heh, sorry dude!
<Laney> :P
<seb128> I've to admit the support is almost ok if I sit correctly
<Laney> I'm still a hunched over nerd though, so I probably won't make the best use of it
<seb128> but I tend to be lazy and "slip down" a bit
<Laney> especially the head bit
<Laney> oh hey, webkit built on ppc
<Laney> omg
<Laney> another spontaneous reboot
<seb128> is there any reason stated in your logs?
<Laney> don't see anything in old syslog or dmesg
<Laney> one of the drives took a while to mount when it rebooted
<seb128> larsu, wdyt about https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-appmenu/stop-using-stock/+merge/194872? should we just do -Wno-error=deprecated-declarations? do you want me to mp that?
<Laney> maybe it's a hw problem
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I was going to say that usually those are hw issues (if there is nothing sending a reboot signal/command, which would be weird)
<larsu> seb128: we should just set the gtk max version, then we won't get the warnings
<larsu> seb128: ah wait, this is 3.8 still. Ya, do no-error
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<seb128> k
<seb128> larsu, btw that makes https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-appmenu/insert-action-groups-on-menus/+merge/194901 not merge because it depends on the other branch, you are going to need to rebase
<larsu> seb128: yep I'll do that. I'm planning on catching up with MRs now anyway (charles sent me a few as well)
<larsu> seb128: if you do the no-error, can you let me know when the MR is up? (I can do it too if you want)
<seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/indicator-appmenu/dont-error-out-on-deprecations/+merge/195728
<seb128> didrocks, want to help reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero/ubuntu-system-settings/click-updates/+merge/195729 ?
<seb128>  42 files changed, 2762 insertions(+), 369 deletions(-)
<seb128> shrug
<didrocks> seb128: I'm not sure I've time TBH, you are owning the system-settings more than ever I guess, so I'll let you in your capable hands :)
<seb128> roooh
<didrocks> especially as my qml skills are not up to yours :p
<seb128> didrocks, thanks :p
<didrocks> seb128: yw! I hope that mpt reviewed the design btw
<seb128> didrocks, I see what you are doing!
<Laney> yeah that's quite some change!
<seb128> didrocks, Laney: I did add a comment asking for a summary of the changes and some details on how to test (I hope they have mocks to simulate installs/updates)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I told them multiple times to ping you (a month ago) about this intrusive change, didn't they do it?
<seb128> didrocks, they pÃ®nged me like friday to ask how they summit for review/who they should ping
<didrocks> argh, yeah for coordination
<seb128> right...
<didrocks> seb128: more than a month in fact from my logs
<seb128> hum
<larsu> seb128: resubmitted: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-appmenu/insert-action-groups-on-menus/+merge/195741
<seb128> telepathy-mission-control started sigabrt for me today (in the greeter apparently, get the report when I log in)
<seb128> Laney, ^ did you see something like that? (I wonder if that could be the e-d-s transition, I updated to your ppa yesterday evening)
<Laney> seb128: nope
<Laney> :(
<Laney> can you get a trace?
<seb128> Laney, looking to the bt there is nothing edsish in there, tmc doesn't even depends on that stack, likely a coincidence
<Laney> mmm
<Mirv> jodh: I wonder if you're interested in glancing at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/967229 too at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-boot-ui ? not sure if it fits the scope, but it's an OEM priority bug.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 967229 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Text mode shown briefly with various "cryptic" texts when logging out or shutting down" [High,Triaged]
<Mirv> it has already been looked at before, and the shutdown text mode issue is still there but no easy solution visible
<seb128> mvo, hey, could you have a look to https://code.launchpad.net/~tjguthrie4600/ubuntu/trusty/apt/bug-1206047/+merge/195553 (should be a trivial one to review)
<seb128> Laney, ok, so the new e-d-s seems fine to me ... should we upload to trusty? ;-)
<Laney> won't it get blocked behind webkit?
<seb128> because the new evolution requires the new webkit?
<Laney> I'm thinking something might need webkit2 on arm64
<seb128> Laney, 2.2 is in trusty ... do we have anything requiring 2.3? e.g why would it block the evo stack?
 * Laney checks
<seb128> oh, right, 2.2 didn't build on arm64 either
<Laney> nope
<Laney> doesn't look like anything does though
<Laney> should be fine then
<seb128> well, then the transition is going to stay in proposed until we force things in or resolve the issue ... is that an issue?
<Laney> means that you can't make other fixes
<seb128> right, we should stay in a buggy situation
<Laney> but I don't see anything depending on that at least on my system
<Laney> so I think it should be ok
<seb128> but it seems we should be fine, and if we are not we need to work our way out anyway...
<Laney> feel free to start uploading
<Laney> something should pull in e-d-s-uoa
<seb128> do you have Vcs-es? or should we just take stuff from your ppa for the updates?
<seb128> -uoa, I guess we should restore the e-d-s depends we had before saucy
<seb128> ok, first lunch and then I look at that
<Laney> no vcs right now
<Laney> will push stuff as it's uploaded
<seb128> sil2100, reviewing zmqpp in NEW for you
<seb128> License: GPL-3
<seb128> ...
<seb128>  Public License version 2 can be found in "/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2".
<seb128>  
<seb128> version mismatch there
<seb128> (not a blocker but please fix for the next upload)
<sil2100> seb128: ah, damn... ok, fixing that now
<sil2100> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> sil2100, it's usually fine to put the debian packaging under the same license as the upstream one btw
<sil2100> seb128: as mentioned before, there's a dep-tweak waiting for release as well
<seb128> no need to use GPL when upstream is using BSD
<sil2100> Oh, ok
<sil2100> Thought that by default we should license GPL-3 our packaging
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on that, just saying
<seb128> sil2100, ok, NEWed
<sil2100> seb128: thank you! Pushing the fix to the packaging trunk in the meantime
<seb128> Laney, do you know what's the situation of mono? do we want to follow Debian/go for the new version for the LTS?
<Laney>  both
<Laney> directhex is going to handle it
<seb128> sorry, that was not an "or" :p
<seb128> it was "do we want the new version, which is what is in Debian" ;-)
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> I think he plans to upload once 3.2 is in unstable
<seb128> larsu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6442592/ ... does it seems like the same lock issue? (that's a bt from indicator-session-service with indicator missing in trusty)
<larsu> seb128: yes, it's waiting in a cond in g_dbus_connection_get_type
<larsu> seb128: do you know when desrt is planning on fixing this in glib? He said something about this cycle
<seb128> larsu, need to ask him again, we didn't talk about it since MontrÃ©al
<seb128> larsu, I wonder why that's still happening with the workaround :/
<larsu> seb128: good question. Is that from a version after the fix landed?
<seb128> larsu, it's trusty, let me check again, but I think yes
<larsu> seb128: no, it seems earlier
<larsu> from your bt: indicator-session-12.10.5+14.04.20131029
<larsu> and the commit is from November 5th
<larsu> and didn't land in trusty yet?!
<seb128> larsu, hum, another case where saucy is more uptodate than trusty
 * larsu suspects his checkout is borked
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/155247618/indicator-session_12.10.5%2B13.10.20131004-0ubuntu1_12.10.5%2B13.10.20131023.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<larsu> seb128: shouldn't that autoland?`
<seb128> larsu, let's not start another argument on the landing ask table, we had one a few days ago here (one part of the issue atm is that CI has been moving to the datacenter and offline for > week and they didn't prepare the migration well so there are still fallouts)
<seb128> larsu, there is no autolanding anymore :-( we are still under landing ask rules
<larsu> seb128: sorry to hear. I won't start another discussion. I was just curious.
<seb128> didrocks, so we really need to land some indicators fixes to trusty (basically stuff that got SRUed in saucy but didn't made it to trusty yet due to CI migration etc) ... what do you recommend doing? do you think we should try to get an indicator stack landing or just do some selected uploads with merging back changelogs to trunk.
<seb128> ?
<didrocks> seb128: if you can list on the landing ask the components to upload, I'll assign that to ken to selection for today's
<didrocks> (and we'll used cu2d)
<didrocks> use*
<didrocks> (sorry, was in hangout for the landing btw ;))
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I'm going to launch a general build. Maybe you want to publish system-settings before?
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, let me have a look (I went for lunch while it was still building)
<seb128> didrocks, @re indicator; the thing is that indicator trunks are migrated to use upstart management, which requires the indicator stack to land synchronize with e.g unity-greeter and other stuff I think
<seb128> do we feel like we are ready to tackle this one?
<didrocks> seb128: I think we are, just need to carefully have the list of everything needed :)
<didrocks> (I think we'll have one image with only that, but it's fine)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: can I run the global build?
<seb128> didrocks, oh, sorry, got sidetracked ... give me one minute, thanks!
<didrocks> seb128: keep me posted :)
<seb128> didrocks, or rather give me a bit more, I just remember why I got sidetracked :p
<didrocks> seb128: heh, ok ;)
<seb128> didrocks, I wanted to check with kenvandine if he tested the current online account version
<seb128> there are quite some changes in there
<seb128> kenvandine, hey!
<didrocks> ah, ok!
<kenvandine> hey
<kenvandine> i tested them in little chunks :)
<seb128> kenvandine, I wanted to do a settings stack publication
<seb128> kenvandine, how confident are you that the current trunk if working as it should? ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128, for uss-oa?
 * kenvandine checks trunk
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> very confident
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> i tested that on the device before it merged, only change since then was the translation merge
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<didrocks> kenvandine: hey! btw, you have Mir on your feet with robru (you should have all infos on the landing spreadsheet, we need to work with the CI guys to get one merge done before building Mir) ;)
<didrocks> kenvandine: so, just one thing to land (well 4 components), but that will be already a big win!
<kenvandine> 4 scary components ;)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> kenvandine: communicate heavily with the CI guy to ensure that the MP is merged
<didrocks> please oh please ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, can we get the indicator stack published to trusty this week?
<seb128> didrocks, hum, does that look fine?
<seb128> $ ./cu2d-run -P settings
<seb128> 2013-11-19 15:12:35,678 INFO Triggering build: cu2d-settings-head
<seb128> didrocks, why "triggering build"?
<seb128> http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Settings/ doesn't seem to change
<didrocks> seb128: just checked, generic message
<didrocks> so, we're fine :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> the web view is not changing though
<seb128> maybe taking a bit?
<didrocks> not changing?
<didrocks> started 3 minutes ago
<cyphermox> nah it should be just about instant
<didrocks> I guess it's your run?
<seb128> didrocks, why is the publish still yellow then?
<didrocks> seb128: did you force the publication?
<didrocks> you have packaging changes
<seb128> I did
<seb128> $ ./cu2d-run -P settings
<seb128> which is what https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ has for "Forcing a stack publication"
<didrocks> argh, this part isn't up to date
<didrocks> it's been a long time you didn't publish :)
<didrocks> --force
 * didrocks updates the wiki
<seb128> right
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> seb128: updated, thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, still not correct :p
<cyphermox> seb128: didrocks: starting indicators nao
<didrocks> seb128: urgh? how?
<didrocks> seb128: do you have latest lp:cupstream2distro?
<seb128> didrocks, it wants me to list the sources
<seb128> didrocks, KeyError: 'projects'
<cyphermox> yeah, you need to specify which packages
<seb128>     args = {'ON_PACKAGES': kwargs['projects'], # optionnally only publish those projects
<didrocks>             logging.error("You can only specify partial projects to publish with the force parameter. Otherwise, use a normal publication.")
<didrocks> ah indeed :)
<didrocks> seb128: I force that :p
<didrocks> seb128: i'll have a look, please use the webui ;)
<seb128> didrocks, oh, right, you told me that last time, I remember ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, cyphermox, kenvandine: ok, it worked this time, thanks!
<didrocks> yw!
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'm rebuilding everything first
<didrocks> cyphermox: to stress the system a little bit :)
<cyphermox> ah, ok
<cyphermox> I'll wait then... since you'll rebuild indicators for4 me
<didrocks> yep ;)
<didrocks> doing it all 4 you!
<didrocks> :)
<cyphermox> weee
<didrocks> seb128: do we have the list of what needs to be released at the same time for indicators?
<seb128> tedg, ^
<seb128> tedg, hey, what needs to be lock-released for the indicators/upstart transition? indicators-*, unity-greeter ... what else?
<tedg> seb128, didrocks, really as long as the greeter goes first, everything else can go anytime after.
<seb128> tedg, the greeter can alone before indicators?
<seb128> mterry, hey, can we get an unity-greeter upload with upstart support?
<tedg> seb128, Yeah, it'll dbus-activate them as a fallback.
<mterry> seb128, that landed in trunk, right?  You just want an upload to trusty?
<seb128> mterry, tedg: ignore that, it's already in trusty, robert_ancell did an upload for the session dialogs
<seb128> tedg, are untiy7/unity8 in trusty both ready as well?
<tedg> seb128, Yeah, they were ready in saucy :-)
<seb128> tedg, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, cyphermox: ok, so seems like we are ready, we can lead indicators without anything else
<mterry> \o/
<cyphermox> yay
<cyphermox> stay tuned for the surprises Mark was sad to not see in saucy :)
 * tedg is on it
<didrocks> seb128: tedg: thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> Laney, kenvandine, tedg, charles, cyphermox: btw the touch settings vUDS session is in half an hour, would be nice if you could come ;-) (I'm not sure what to discuss, out of going over the plans for the cycle and ask if anyone has feedback)
<Laney> mmm, ok
<seb128> Laney, "mmm"? ;-) (yeah, same here, I'm not the one who put that session on the schedule :p)
<tedg> seb128, K, I wasn't planning on doing the hangout, but I was going to watch :-)
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll be there
<seb128> tedg, please come, so we can get something going on
 * seb128 not sure how we can fill the hour
 * tedg works on his singing
<seb128> kenvandine, tedg, Laney, charles: bonus point if some want to talk about the stuff on their todo for the cycle
<kenvandine> karaoke hour?
<seb128> wfm if you guys want to sing
 * seb128 is not going to sing, enough rain this month
<didrocks> seb128: tedg will be able to talk with no content for an hor, don't worry :)
 * tedg starts humming "I'm too sexy for this hangout, too sexy indeed!"
<kenvandine> lol
<seb128> bah, firefox became a piece of crap since chrisccoulson stopped maintaining it :/
<seb128> it keeps hanging for me for some weeks
<Laney> seb128: can you set up the hangout?
<chrisccoulson> :(
<seb128> Laney, now?
<Laney> might take me a while to get in
 * Laney coughs
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, try setting "ui.use_unity_menubar" to false in about:config
<seb128> Laney, give me some minutes
<chrisccoulson> it massively speeds things up for me and jdstrand
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, you are joking right? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, the hud keeps requesting menus
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, it's not slow, it's locking (e.g I had Mark's keynote in a tab and that stopped doing audio)
<seb128> and I've no bookmark
<seb128> or almost none, like 30
<Laney> that's a fun u-s-s landing
<seb128> Laney, I hope "fun" doesn't mean buggy :p
<Laney> haha
<Laney> a lot of it is mine, so definitly zero bugs there :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, kenvandine, tedg, others: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpi5e1q127qe0elqtkkts9ls?authuser=0
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<seb128> shrug, pad not working?
<seb128> "404 not found: /ep/pad/view/uds-1311-client-s-system-settings-panels/latest"
<kenvandine> seb128, didn't jono say something about there being a button to join the hangout?
 * kenvandine looked all over for it... 
<seb128> kenvandine, I need to add the hangout URL to summit first for that I guess
<kenvandine> ah... so it's your fault :)
<Laney> doesn't work
<Laney> going to have to piss about
<jono> ALL PART OF THE CANONICAL CONSPIRACY
<jono> oops
<jono> I mean, hey guys
<kenvandine> haha :)
<seb128> jono, hey, do you know about the pad not working?
<tedg> jono, You should really disable that hotkey
<jono> seb128, should work, ask mhall119 he takes care of summit
<jono> tedg, lol
<jono> I have an XChat plugin that has a direct line to my brain
<jono> hence, not much content on IRC
<mhall119> seb128: go to pad.ubuntu.com and login with SSO
<mhall119> SSO no longer supports the login redirect within an iframe
<tedg> jono, Then for music you pipe it through autotune, for documents through autocorrect?  ;-)
<jono> tedg, absolutely
<seb128> mhall119, I'm logged in with sso
<Laney> can you hear me on the hangout?
<Laney> guessing not
<Laney> FOR GODS SAKE
<seb128> kenvandine, hum, I think we didn't take notes for the background since we rediscussed it with mpt later on (and nobody took notes then)
<seb128> kenvandine, can you just add some to the blueprint?
<seb128> kenvandine, in fact I had those notes in http://pad.ubuntu.com/settings-saucy
<seb128> oh, ignore that, those are the testing items
<kenvandine> seb128, i will
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<sil2100> seb128: hello! :)
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<sil2100> seb128: could you take a look at a packaging-review merge I made and do a preNEW review for this package basing on this branch?
<sil2100> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-scopes-shell/packaging_review/+merge/195815 <- in preparation for daily-release
<sil2100> Thanks!
<seb128> sil2100, the debian/rules change seems backward, but didrocks likes it this way, right?
<Laney> yeah I dislike that standard, it's weird
<Laney> it hides what the fail-missing is doing
<sil2100> seb128: I guess so, I remember that we settled on this format of using --fail-missing, so it's something like a standard for us
<seb128> sil2100, what's the motivation? just make the rules a bit shorter?
<sil2100> seb128: yes
<sil2100> seb128: it might be a bit non-optimal since it gets passed to every dh wrapper, but well...
<seb128> sil2100, yeah, it seems wrong optimization, do the wrong thing to spare a line in rules
<sil2100> seb128: I guess I can revert that back to the dh_install override, since we allowed that as well - just wanted to make it consistent with the last packages ;)
<seb128> sil2100, let's wait for that session to finish and discuss it with didrocks
<sil2100> But it's certainly not something I would block on, since I don't care about either approac ;)
<sil2100> seb128: in the meantime! I think this package got already preNEWed by either you or didrocks, but could you just take a look if lp:ubuntu-settings-components is ok?
<seb128> sil2100, sure
<sil2100> seb128: thank you! ;)
<sil2100> seb128: I think I did some packaging fixes some time ago, before trusty even
<seb128> cyphermox_, could you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1198315 to see if it's an nm or g-c-c issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1198315 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "[network]: gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in append_escaped_text()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> cyphermox_, ssid_text = 0x7f97df57dec0 <escaped.16720> "B\374ro"
<seb128> the code does
<seb128>         ssid = nm_setting_wireless_get_ssid (NM_SETTING_WIRELESS (setting));
<seb128>         ssid_text = nm_utils_escape_ssid (ssid->data, ssid->len);
<seb128>         title = g_markup_escape_text (ssid_text, -1);
<seb128> cyphermox_, it looks like nm_setting_wireless_get_ssid() returns an non UTF8 string ... is that considered as nm bug?
<cyphermox_> seb128: maybe not. you could have SSIDs with weird caracters
<seb128> cyphermox_, https://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/developers/libnm-util/09/libnm-util-nm-utils.html#nm-utils-escape-ssid says
<seb128> "simply replacing embedded NULLs and non-printable characters with the hexadecimal representation of that character. "
<cyphermox_> right
<cyphermox_> non-printable
<seb128> desrt, is g_markup_escape_text("B\374ro", -1) valid?
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/144270915/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> 374 is Í´
<seb128> cyphermox_, is there a way to "emulate" a ssid?
<cyphermox_> what do you mean?
<seb128> cyphermox: like to make nm believes I've a ssid "bugÍ´s ssid"
<cyphermox> not really no
<cyphermox> create one with another system as a ad-hoc network?
<seb128> I guess I need to change the config of one of my aps to test :p
<cyphermox> seb128: just to clarify, I should see a capital Y circumflex?
<seb128> cyphermox, no
<seb128> cyphermox, go in gucharmap and search for 374
<seb128> U+0374 GREEK NUMERAL SIGN
<seb128> it's a fancy "'"
<cyphermox> mmkay
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, finished the session
<desrt> seb128: yes?
<seb128> desrt, does the bt there makes any sense to you?
<desrt> seb128: nope :)
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> the code is
<seb128>         ssid = nm_setting_wireless_get_ssid (NM_SETTING_WIRELESS (setting));
<seb128>         ssid_text = nm_utils_escape_ssid (ssid->data, ssid->len);
<seb128>         title = g_markup_escape_text (ssid_text, -1);
<seb128> and somewhat it doesn't like what seems like nonutf ssid
<seb128> well I assume that from the bts we have
<seb128> ssid_text = 0x7f99a6e75ec0 <escaped.16667> "AgnetaBj\366rn"
<desrt> oh.  interesting.
<desrt> "B\374ro" is actually someone's ssid?
<seb128> yes ;-)
<desrt>  okay
<desrt> that's definitely invalid, by the docs
<desrt> g_markup_escape_text() says it only takes utf8
<desrt> that said, i'm not sure what it would be doing internally that would make a difference
<desrt>               (0x7f <= c && c <= 0x84) ||
<desrt>               (0x86 <= c && c <= 0x9f))
<desrt> really gmarkup?  really?
<cyphermox> seb128: ... btw, I think you have the wrong chars
<seb128> desrt, the bt has \374, I don't know if that means "\" "3" "7" "4" or the "\374"
<seb128> cyphermox, could be
<cyphermox> this is octal
<cyphermox> when you look it up in charmap you need to convert to hex
<cyphermox> not that it would make much of a difference though
<cyphermox> but it's valid utf8 AFAICT
<desrt> either way, it has a high bit set and it's a single byte
<desrt> ain't no way that's utf8
<desrt> and the inner loop there does a lot of g_utf8_get_char()
<desrt> which could easily crash on that byte
<cyphermox> uh, right
<desrt> i hate this loop
<desrt> it's doing utf8 processing for excessively trivial reasons
<cyphermox> we're looking at U+00FC and U+00F6
<desrt> either it should step up its game and do proper handling of unicode non-printables or it should just deal in ascii
<desrt> cyphermox: you could just escape everything outside of 0x20..0x7f
<desrt> ie: ascii printable range
<cyphermox> desrt: well, g_markup_escape does get escaped stuff
<desrt> cyphermox: but the input to nm_utils_escape_ssid() can clearly be non-utf8
<seb128> I wonder if "\374" is one non utf symbol or if it's the marker expressed over 4 chars
<desrt> and it doesn't do its escaping in a way that will convert non-utf8 into valid utf8
<desrt> seb128: that's an octal escape, for sure
<cyphermox> itÅ Ã¼ and Ã¶
<cyphermox> nothing fancy
<seb128> desrt, https://projects.gnome.org/NetworkManager/developers/libnm-util/09/libnm-util-nm-utils.html#nm-utils-escape-ssid says
<seb128> " simply replacing embedded NULLs and non-printable characters with the hexadecimal representation of that character. "
<desrt> right
<desrt> ....when in doubt
<desrt> use the source
<desrt>         while (len--) {
<desrt>                 if (*s == '\0') {
<desrt>                         *d++ = '\\';
<desrt>                         *d++ = '0';
<desrt>                         s++;
<desrt>                 } else {
<cyphermox> right
<desrt>                         *d++ = *s++;
<cyphermox> also
<cyphermox> * This function does a quick printable character conversion of the SSID, simply
<cyphermox>  * replacing embedded NULLs and non-printable characters with the hexadecimal
<cyphermox>  * representation of that character.  Intended for debugging only, should not
<desrt>                 }
<cyphermox>  * be used for display of SSIDs.
<desrt> this function does more or less nothing
<desrt> other than "\0" -> "\\0"
<seb128> I guess bugs in nm for not doing what the API says
<seb128> and g-c-c for using it
<desrt> title = g_markup_escape_text (ssid_text, -1);
<desrt> this is g-c-c code?
<seb128> desrt, yes
<desrt> bug is _entirely_ in g-c-c
<desrt> n-m is doing exactly what it says it will
<cyphermox> g-c-cjust shouldn't be using nm_utils_escape_ssid
<seb128> well, nm_utils_escape_ssid () should return valid utf
<desrt> yup
<desrt> seb128: says who?
 * desrt sees no docs to this effect
<seb128> that would make sense :p
<desrt> the only docs i do see say "don't use this" :p
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm going to GNOME upstream that
<seb128> desrt, cyphermox: thanks
<desrt> seb128: well... if you want to assume that it returns valid utf8 without having explicitly said it then you'd also assume that you must pass valid utf8 without it being explicitly stated, as well
<desrt> and if you pass valid utf8, it would return valid utf8....
<seb128> I got confused by the "simply replacing embedded NULLs and non-printable characters with the hexadecimal representation of that character."
<seb128> but non printable != invalid utf8 and hexadecimal representation !â¼ valid utf8
<desrt> 'printable' has no proper definition here
<cyphermox> btw https://developer.gnome.org/libnm-util/unstable/libnm-util-nm-utils.html#nm-utils-ssid-to-utf8
<desrt> admittedly, the docs are a mess as well
<desrt> cyphermox wins
<desrt> except jesus.... dude... GByteArray?  ouch.
<cyphermox> hehe
<desrt> i guess GBytes didn't exist
<cyphermox> you get used to it if you deal with NM :)
<desrt> (GBytes = best API on earth, btw.  use it.)
<cyphermox> fun
<desrt> it's exactly what you want in situations like this
<cyphermox> anyway, that's another debug-only function though
<desrt> no.  it's not
<desrt> it says:
<desrt>  Again, this function should be used for debugging and display purposes _only_.
<desrt> note "...and display purposes"
<desrt> which i think is what they're going for here?
<cyphermox> ah, indeed, EPARSE
<cyphermox> yeah, seems like it's what's needed, probably
<seb128> cyphermox, do you want to make the patch/file the bug there?
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> is that for SRU as well?
<seb128> cyphermox, let's get it fixed in trunk/trusty to start
<cyphermox> yes, I see
<seb128> cyphermox, it doesn't seem ranked high enough on e.u.c to SRU it
 * cyphermox starts editing his wifi config
<seb128> cyphermox, I mostly picked it up because an user filed a bug on launchpad about not being able to open the control center panel and has been active on the report
<desrt> the real source of this bug is ieee
<desrt> for failing to define a character set for use with 802.11
<cyphermox> d'oh
<desrt> macs and linux use utf8
<desrt> windows uses whatever the system characterset is
<cyphermox> desrt: my router with linksys firmware enforces ascii >.<
<desrt> ie: probably some iso-8859-n variant
<cyphermox> no
<desrt> cyphermox: that's a pretty reasonable solution :)
<Mirv> sil2100: the QPA plugin is mentioned at the http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21986/core-1311-qt5-versions-in-ubuntu/ session in 1.5h
<Mirv> (the blueprint of it)
<cyphermox> windows uses a weird-ass charset, at least it does in java
<seb128> cyphermox, just hack the code to inject a fake ssid? :p
<seb128> to test the patch
<cyphermox> seb128: I'll just grab another wireless router
<desrt> cyphermox: i'm pretty sure it depends on what language you're using
<sil2100> Mirv: awww... :<
<cyphermox> I have multiple
<desrt> unless they just hardcode to latin1
<cyphermox> desrt: guess it could be the case
<sil2100> Mirv: I thought it will be tomorrow or something...
<desrt> i know my ssid shows up as one of those weird ÃÂ© type things when i view it on a windows machine
<cyphermox> I recall it wasn't latin1 or iso*, something weird, because I would get java source files all garbled with french accents missing
<desrt> (it has a Ã© in it)
<cyphermox> and I'd headdesk everytime I'd be asked to write comments and code in french :/
<desrt> cyphermox: but this is quebec, man!!
<desrt> erm...
<desrt> quÃ©bec, sorry
<Mirv> sil2100: there's another session tomorrow, but this one is about the co-operation with eg. Kubuntu and upstream
<sil2100> :<
<cyphermox> desrt: yeah, but you have no idea how much of an effort it is when coding to think of using french variable names and commenting in french
<cyphermox> electroshocks, like
<cyphermox> hmmm.. no router in sight
<sil2100> Mirv: I might try being around in like 1.5h
<seb128> didrocks, did you read the scrollback about debian/rules --fail-missing use?
<sil2100> Mirv: will you be on the meeting as well? Since it has to be like, late-night at your place then
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, seems like it's the preferred way for all the packages I encountered on debian, and it's less lines for simple packages, so seems to make more sense to me
<didrocks> one line with all the rules instead of 3
<didrocks> I'm not too attached to it, but I prefer we follow the same rule if possible everywhere :)
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I'm not going to argue over it, feels buggy though ;-)
<Laney> you've seen that in debian?!
<didrocks> why? it's the way dh defines parameters like --parallel
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, it's where I've seen it first, I will need to grep though
<Laney> don't bother
<Laney> I always thought it was odd though
<seb128> didrocks, because --fail-missing is not a dh parameter, it's a dh_install one
<Laney> fail-missing is an argument to one particular script, not to dh in general which --parallel is
<didrocks> seb128: valid argument, again, I don't care too much, I just don't want that we bring confusion to upstream, so do whatever you think is the best
 * Laney apt-get dist-upgrade â new u-s-s
<Laney> \o/
<kenvandine> nice to see updates rolling in :)
<Mirv> sil2100: I have to I guess, but it'll be the very last thing before sleep
<didrocks> kenvandine: all spots on you for Mir! :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, it's building
<didrocks> I hope "nicely building" :)
<kenvandine> i hope... i couple hours ago it failed to build in the ppa
<kenvandine> test failure
<seb128> Laney, so for eds and co, should I just get the source from your ppa, tweak the versions and "sponsor" the uploads? (e.g debsign&dput)
<Laney> seb128: yeah, and do what you want with uoa
<Laney> I tried to make it so that most of the upload could be copied (not binaries) out of the PPA
<Laney> but some failed to build so I mangled the versions
<Laney> if you want I'll work on the uploads tomorrow though
<seb128> Laney, you current build it as a separate package and don't pull it in if I'm correct? that seems what we should do until issues are resolved
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> a non-default option, seems ok to me
<seb128> Laney, today/tomorrow ... your call
<seb128> I guess we can wait tomorrow morning
<seb128> to point starting a transition just before eod
<seb128> if we start in the morning we might have it done by the end of the day
<Laney> that'd be smooth
<seb128> yeah, let's see what happens :p
<Laney> alright on that note, got to go cook some steak
<Laney> (ping jasoncwarner_ ;-)
<Laney> see you!
<seb128> sil2100, ubuntu-settings-component has  GPLv3 sources that need to be listed in the debian/copyright or relicensed (mostly the tests), needs a COPYING.GPL as well if you keep the GPL sources
<sil2100> seb128: ok, will fix that in a moment, thanks for the review!
<seb128> sil2100, uw
<seb128> yw
<cyphermox> seb128: btw, many indicators ftbfs due to missing b-deps or failed tests, I'll look at them again shortly
<seb128> cyphermox, do you have an example?
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/156926877/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.indicator-keyboard_0.0.0%2B14.04.20131119-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> what sort of missing b-d?
<cyphermox> well, I was unclear
<cyphermox> accountsservice vala can't be found
<seb128> shrug, that one is due to the new accountsservice
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I'll do the merges, just want to finish with g-c-c first to get that out of the way
<seb128> ok
<seb128> cyphermox, attente: that's the issue there
<seb128> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/accountsservice/commit/?id=17af4612e877c3a5c6bff67064d648f0eb2ea0cc
 * cyphermox sigh
<seb128> so I guess we should put a copy of that vapi in indicator-keyboard?
<attente> sounds right
<seb128> attente, can you do that?
<attente> i'll add it
<seb128> attente, thanks
<attente> sure
<cyphermox> this is bs... so much code duplication for no good reason
<ogra_> seb128, Laney, did one fo you want to join the developer mode session (including UI enablement etc)
<seb128> ogra_, I can't, I'm hosting client 1 :/
<ogra_> seb128, what about Laney then ?
<seb128> ogra_, he was talking about going for dinner, not sure if he's still around/was planning to join that one...
<seb128> Laney, ^?
<attente> cyphermox, seems to fix it: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/indicator-keyboard/add-accountsservice-vapi/+merge/195847
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-20
<athanor1723> I'm trying to do a dist update, and it's really slow (everything is already downloaded), can I remount / with some option to speed it up?  Btrfs filesystem
<sarnold> athanor1723: can you mount with noatime? that might save some needless writes
<athanor1723> Is it safe to remount it noatime while in use?
<sarnold> it should, yes
<athanor1723> Looks like that may have speeded it up a bit ( 4sec per small package, instead of 5sec).  Still going to take about 8hr to finish. :(
<athanor1723> I just tried doing nodatacow as well, but it just started hitting some gnome packages, so I can't tell (I was timing small packages with only a couple files)
<sarnold> you shouldn't be able to time those :(
<Mirv> uh, and here again :)
<Mirv> pitti: would you be available for some packaging acks while didrocks' machine is in autodestruction mode?
<pitti> Mirv: sure
<pitti> didrocks: eww, problems?
<didrocks> pitti: run any command
<didrocks> like even ls
<didrocks> I just installed, and then removed the emulatorâ¦
<Mirv> pitti: mir: http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Mir/job/cu2d-mir-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_mir_0.1.1+14.04.20131120-0ubuntu1.diff
<Mirv> pitti: unity-system-compositor: http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Mir/job/cu2d-mir-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_unity-system-compositor_0.0.2+14.04.20131120-0ubuntu1.diff
<pitti> didrocks: did that replace your libc6 with the arm package?
<Mirv> pitti: platform-api: http://q-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Platform/job/cu2d-platform-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_platform-api_0.19+14.04.20131119.1-0ubuntu1.diff
<didrocks> pitti: I guess it's what happened
<pitti> "Stop depending on libboost-all-dev, it is verboten." - *chuckle*
<didrocks> pitti: I think I'm good for booting on a usb stick
<Mirv> didrocks: sounds fun! live usb boot and ar x a x86 deb?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> or chroot + clean install of libc6
<didrocks> if that's the cause
<pitti> sudo dpkg -i --root=/mnt
<didrocks> pitti: well, I have no sudo either right now :p
<pitti> didrocks: on a live system, I mean
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> mount your root in /mnt
<didrocks> oh right, better than a chroot
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<didrocks> pitti: sorry, I'm just in panic mode right now :p
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> seb128: tu as cassÃ© l'Ã©numerateur de didrocks !
<seb128> didrocks, salut, je te demande pas, je note de pas essayer l'emulateur
<seb128> pitti, je nie!
<seb128> c'est pas moi !
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: ou tu peux! viens, c'est fun :)
<pitti> seb128: it was a gnome update !!
<seb128> haha
<seb128> iz gtk bog
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> *G*libc
<seb128> who needs a libc
<pitti> seb128: those were the day..
<seb128> yeah...
<Fudus> What is the status of 14.04 staying on 3.8 or 3.10 anyhow? Or  is that still to be decided.
<seb128> Fudus, you can read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2013-November/004343.html for details
<pitti> Mirv: unity-system-compositor: new version removes /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor.conf, that needs a corresponding .maintscripts to clean it up on upgrade
<Laney> hey
<Laney> seb128: ogra_: sorry for missing that one
<pitti> Mirv: I assume the new qt dependencies are justified
<seb128> Laney, hey ... context?
<seb128> Laney, oh, the session, no worry
<pitti> Mirv: mir ack
<Mirv> pitti: ok. it got moved to ubuntu-desktop-mir. the Qt dependencies come from the DBus interface addition which then uses Qt.
<pitti> Mirv: ok; so except for the missing .maintscripts it looks good to me
<Mirv> pitti: ok, I'll look at that still then. thanks.
<sil2100> seb128: hello! Do you have any free cycles right now? ;)
<seb128> sil2100, hey, sort of, busy doing morning catchup and looking a vUDS schedule for the day, I can probably sneak a bit of review or answering questions though
<sil2100> seb128: I would like to get someone to sponsor a new version of a package - you already source and binary NEWed the previous one yesterday, I want to release the new one with some packaging fixes that got piled-up
<sil2100> seb128: lp:zmqpp/ubuntu
<sil2100> seb128: just if you have a free moment ;) I can provide a debdiff if better
<sil2100> seb128: maybe in this case a debdiff would be indeed more useful, so preparing
<Laney> if they're not urgent you can use the sponsor queue
<seb128> sil2100, I can do sponsoring sure
<sil2100> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6447244/ <- debdiff in case it seems better
<sil2100> THank you!
<sil2100> Laney: true, but I guess the unity scopes guys would be happy to get this today ;)
<Laney> shrug
<seb128> sil2100, is the missing depends what bothers them?
<seb128> sil2100, I can sponsor it
<Laney> ok, looking at eds/goa
<seb128> Laney, \o/ I can join you/help with uploads in a bit
<Laney> cool
<Laney> got to remember if there was some ordering required
<ogra_> Laney, no problem ... we can do it on the go i guess ... (we need mpt first anyway i guess, i doubt there is a "developer mode" switch in his designs yet)
<Laney> indeed
<sil2100> seb128: yes ;) Thanks! It's just pure packaging things
<Laney> ogra_: File a bug report against u-s-s & describe what needs to be exposed in UI & how to do that in code, then assign mpt to get a design
<ogra_> ok
<seb128> sil2100, sponsored
<sil2100> seb128: \o/
<Laney> g-o-a will block on webkitgtk/arm64
<Laney> we probably shouldn't do that transition just now
<Mirv> pitti: is this anywhere near what you were wishing? https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/unity-system-compositor/clean_conffile/+merge/195934
<pitti> Mirv: uh, no -- you just want a debian/unity-system-compositor.maintscripts with a rm_conffile
<pitti> Mirv: that'll create the necessary preinst, postrm, etc. scripts
<pitti> Mirv: man dpkg-maintscript-helper
<pitti> Mirv: sorry, I thought saying ".maintscripts" would have been enough, as it has been around for quite a while
<pitti> Mirv: actually, you want mv_conffile as it moved to a different package
<Mirv> pitti: thank you, no harm done refreshing memories of the packaging scripts :) I'll look at that next.
<pitti> Mirv: people might have modified it, then that saves a dpkg conffile prompt
<seb128> didrocks, did you manage to sort it out?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah! ;)
<didrocks> just now
<didrocks> phew!
<seb128> didrocks, good that you got it resolved at least ;-)
<didrocks> indeed ;) well, my system isn't clean, but it's a start
<Laney> in good time for UDS :P
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> that will teach me to be an early adopter :p
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, stop slacking!
 * Laney begins the webkit workaround fest
 * didrocks goes back to precise, like ogra_
<Laney> life sucks when you cant test build
<seb128> LTS\o/
<Mirv> pitti: a mv_conffile with same old and new conf file name didn't seem to work. the version specific rm_conffile would seem to do its job even when both upgrading and installing the new package at the same time: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/unity-system-compositor/clean_conffile/+merge/195934
<pitti> Mirv: ah, sorry; mv_conffile was for renames, not for moving between packages; so rm_conffile is right
<seb128> Laney, what happened to e-d-s/goa uploads?
<Laney> I said ^^^ that goa will block on webkit
<Laney> eds can probably go in though, will do this test and then that
<Mirv> pitti: also, I found that .maintscript, not .maintscripts helps :) ok, so if that looks ok can you approve?
<pitti> Mirv: just done, thanks for fixing
<Mirv> pitti: thanks!
<seb128> Laney, oh ok, I didn't see what you said earlier, just read it now
<seb128> Laney, no hurry to do the transitions, so maybe let's sort out webkit first
<Laney> I think eds goes in on its own
<seb128> good
<seb128> mlankhorst, could you have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1184451 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1184451 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu 13.10 random screen freeze while Normal OS activites" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> doesn't seem driver specific but it seems to be an issue for quite some users, would be good to have it triaged correctly/reassigned to the right place in case that's a kernel issue
<mlankhorst> seb128: could be multiple problems squashed in the same bug :/
<seb128> right, still having some triaging would be good
<mlankhorst> could be -> very likely
<seb128> ok, I'm out for some errands and lunch, back in ~1.5 hours
<Laney> uploading eds
<mlankhorst> seb128: well I listed the bugs I know about from nouveau's side.
<didrocks> sil2100: do you think you are going to upload the new packages today? (both?)
<sil2100> didrocks: you mean through cu2d? :) Yes
<didrocks> sil2100: great!
<ogra_> wow, the tooltip of the reload button with the latest firefox is gigantic
 * ogra_ gets a huge black box with tiny text in the top left
 * seb128 hopes Laney doesn't get crazy over webkit
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> it's really really annoying using the archive to do test builds
<Laney> I'll give it a rest for now
<mitya57> Laney: did you see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/153691641/qtwebkit-source_2.3.2-0ubuntu2_2.3.2-0ubuntu3.diff.gz, btw?
<Laney> mitya57: no, what's that?
<Laney> oh, that's not relevant sadly
<Laney> what version of webkit is that based on?
 * mitya57 checks the user agent
<Laney> 1.11.2
<Laney> that fix stopped working with 2.x
<mitya57> 537.21
<mitya57> :(
<Laney> seb128: I set up http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/evolution-data-server-3.10.html btw
<Laney> packages are in NEW
<seb128> Laney, great! how do you want to organize for rebuilds/uploads?
<Laney> going for lunch in a minute so you can do a batch if you like
<seb128> do you want to split work? hand it over?...
<seb128> ok, I'm going to NEW it and start uploading
<Laney> will need to publish though
<seb128> vUDS starts in 15min though so let's see what I can manage to do during session
<seb128> (I'm hosting a few I'm not participating in)
 * Laney nods
<Laney> changes for evolution-* are in the ppa
 * Laney pushes evolution itself
<seb128> cool, I guess that one is going to depwait properly
<Laney> oh yeah, could just upload it
<seb128> Laney, I can pocket copies stuff that have an archive version right?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> without binaries, of couse
<Laney> although that PPA does mix both transitions, so keep that in mind
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, enjoy lunch!
<Laney> trip to the bank... :P
<tedg> Hey xnox, I can't make it to this session, but can you go to talk about acc?  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22111/core-1311-app-framework/
<tedg> Uhg, same time as Upstart roadmap as well.
<xnox> tedg: i'll see if I can pop in.
<tedg> xnox, Cool, thanks!
<seb128> Laney, do you have Vceses ready to push for e.g evolution-indicator or should I just update/commit/push, while doing the copy, for those?
<Laney> yeah, push for indicator
<cyphermox> seb128: re. g-c-c
<Laney> that's the one that is out of date and confusing
<cyphermox> I'll upload the fix anyway, it's pretty straightforward
<seb128> cyphermox, ok, thanks, do you plan to bugzilla.gnome.org it as well?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> btw on trusty it doesn't crash
<cyphermox> but g-c-c doesn't show the list of networks
<cyphermox> like, only part of the panel show up for wifi
<seb128> cyphermox, weird, g-c-c didn't change in trusty
<cyphermox> then maybe I'm not reproducing the bug right
<seb128> cyphermox, well, I think it's random behaviour, maybe you get lucky
<seb128> Laney, can you sync folks from debian? doesn't make sense to ppa copy a direct sync
<cyphermox> behavior was definitely improved with my patch anyway
<seb128> cyphermox, great ;-)
<attente> seb128, can you take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-themes/1045602/+merge/195267
<seb128> attente, sure ... is adwaita doing the same thing?
<attente> seb128, yep
<attente> well, we're only applying it to gnome-system-log's window
<seb128> attente, looks fine then, still that's a bit stupid that themes need to do that for the UI to be usable ... but I guess that's not a problem we need to resolve
<Laney> seb128: yeah, it already was one
<seb128> Laney, you mean you synced it already? I don't see it on -changes
<Laney> I mean the package in the PPA was a copy from debian already
<seb128> right
<seb128> can you sync it to the archive? (that makes more sense than me doing the pocket copy from the ppa)
<Laney> am doing
<seb128> I'm done with the copies, I think
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> powerpc is lagging behind though
<seb128> thanks to chrisccoulson
<seb128> tb builds taking the builders
<Laney> wow, sagari built webkit *fast*
<pitti> desrt: hey Ryan, how are you?
<desrt> awful!
<pitti> desrt: :( vUbuFlu?
<desrt> :)
<desrt> nah.  i'm fine :)
<desrt> what's up?
<pitti> desrt: I cobbled together some autopkgtests for systemd-shim: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6448791/ (lifecycle), and http://paste.ubuntu.com/6448794/ (power)
<desrt> neat
<pitti> in retrospect I probably should have written "power" in python
<pitti> but *shrug*
<desrt> do you want these upstream somehow?
<pitti> desrt: I sat in yesterday's UDS discussion about the cgroup manager
<pitti> desrt: no, just a FYI, and in case you have some suggestions what else you want to test
<pitti> desrt: well, if you want them upstream, we can do that of course
<pitti> desrt: and once we get that manager, we'll need to add the "create cgroup" etc. API into -shim, and translate it to the API of our cgroup manager
<pitti> desrt: so I thought we should at least cover the current API before we add lots of more stuff to it
<desrt> scary
<pitti> desrt: amen
<desrt> pitti: thanks for working on this
<pitti> desrt: but once we get that cgroup manager, 204 won't work for us any more
<pitti> desrt: but then we can at least upgrade to current systemd/logind versions again, and get a systemd compatible cgroup API
<pitti> desrt: I'll upload that now (already locally tested with run-adt-test), unless you have some further suggestions
<seb128> pitti, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/86c6c900c45c7a61d444a2add212730940175c24 seems new on e.u.c/14.04 (started today on the daily view)
<seb128> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/sbin/dpkg-divert'
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1253136
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253136 in apport (Ubuntu) "/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk:FileNotFoundError:/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk@590:run_argv:run_crashes:load_report:find_file_package:get_file_package:__init__:_execute_child" [Undecided,New]
<desrt> pitti: lennart was running around like a damn fool saying shit like "the new stuff coming to systemd is going to screw you guys so bad...."
<desrt> pitti: any idea what that was about?  cgroup stuff?
<pitti> seb128: oh, that's the one I fixed yesterday
<seb128> pitti, those reports are from 2.12.7-0ubuntu1  which is the current trust version?
<pitti> strange
<pitti> seb128: oh, I suppose these might be older crash reports which were laying around
<pitti> seb128: which you couldn't actually report before due to that very bug
<seb128> k
<pitti> seb128: so we got them today *after* we fixed apport to be able to report
<seb128> I see
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> desrt: roughly, yes (just a sec)
<pitti> seb128: duped to bug 1252305
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1252305 in apport (Ubuntu) "dpkg-divert not found" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252305
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> desrt: so, logind <= 204 created its cgroups by itself
<pitti> desrt: >= 205 delegate this to a systemd D-BUS API, as the kernel folks want only one process to manage the /sys/fs/cgroup/ hierarchy (and system is that one)
<pitti> desrt: we also want that behaviour as that will fix a number of security issues as well as race conditions
<desrt> the fact that cgroups are not properly recursive seems a bit disturbing to me
<pitti> desrt: but with a different API, as systemd's doesn't allow nested cgroups
<pitti> desrt: yes, that's the bit that other folks have a hard time convincing Lennart of
<desrt> well... the kernel people, indeed.
<pitti> desrt: but it should be possible to map systemd's single-hierarchy API to our nested-hierarchy API, and the place for that would be systemd-shim
<desrt> "one global manager" doesn't sound properly recursive
<pitti> then logind and other bits which wants to create cgroups (libvirt?) should work
<desrt> pitti: can this API be used for promoting processes from one cgroup to another?
<desrt> i guess that's sort of 'the point', in fact
<desrt> but can it lift processes out of the session?
<pitti> desrt: I don't know; it's not even designed yet
<desrt> :)
<pitti> desrt: nor do I know a lot about cgroup management in general
<pitti> desrt: but I'm not expecting to be the person to write that translation
<desrt> :)
<desrt> i'm just thinking about it from a userspace person
<desrt> 's standpoint
<desrt> like ... how can i arrange to have my user-scoped service raised out of the session?
<desrt> this stuff is all extremely interesting
<desrt> one thing that seems positively missing, however, is the ability to atomically SIGSTOP an entire cgroup
<seb128> cyphermox, we need a no change rebuild of indicator-datetime for the new e-d-s ... do you recommend just doing the upload and force the next publishing to ignore that changelog?
<seb128> (it feels like we are not going to get an indicator landing today)
<seb128> cyphermox, I did the no change rebuild upload, just fyu
<seb128> fyi
<cyphermox> ok
<didrocks> sil2100: are the new components in archive now? (think about updating the spreadsheet!)
<sil2100> didrocks: checking! I was updating our task-list only - are those on the landing asks document as well?
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, they are :)
<sil2100> didrocks: they're still in the NEW queue sadly!
<didrocks> sil2100: did you ping? raise awareness? :)
<seb128> did anyone preNEW them?
<mterry> seb128, heyo, I filed that welcome-wizard branch against system-settings a while ago.  Is there someone that could review it?
<seb128> I did some reviewing yesterday but not a complete one since the debian/copyright was just wrong
<seb128> mterry, hey, sorry, with CI down and vUDS we neglected u-s-s a bit, it's on my todolist, I'm going to try to get to it before the end of the week
<sil2100> seb128: so it wasn't a whole review? I though that this was the thing you pointed out that needs fixing so that the package is ok?
<mterry> seb128, ok, no rush
<sil2100> seb128: and unity-scopes-shell was my understanding that you preNEWed today, right?
<mterry> seb128, just wanted to make sure it was on the radar
<seb128> sil2100, well, those were the obvious ones, need another look to make sure those are fixed and there is no other ones
<seb128> mterry, thanks for checking, it is ;-)
<sil2100> seb128: oh, can I ask for that then please? I thought that the reviews were final ;)
<seb128> sil2100, sure, let me do that
<Laney> oh dear
<Laney> openchange transition â evolution-mapi
<seb128> Laney, worth thing we can drop evolution-mapi from the archive
<seb128> and upload it back to proposed
<Laney> there's a demote-to-proposed thing
<Laney> I wonder if it is ever possible to get used to reading diffs of diffs
 * seb128 can't read those, always end up unpacking and applying the diff to see the changes
<sil2100> seb128: could you give me a sign once you finish the preNEW review of those two packages?
<seb128> sil2100, unity-scopes-shell NEWed
<Laney> oh no I think we'll be alright with mapi
<Laney> well, I mean we won't be blocked on arm64 since it didn't exist there before
<seb128> great
<Laney> still will go with openchange though so maybe need demoting if that gets stuck
<seb128> cool
<seb128> sil2100, ubuntu-settings-components ... ./runtests.sh is GPL but not listed in the copyright under that license (I pointed that yesterday but that probably got overlooked next to the other ones ... anyway not a blocker but to fix for the next upload)
<seb128> sil2100, NEWed as well
<seb128> ok, time for some exercice, bbl
<sil2100> seb128: thanks! I probably missed this one, since I don't remember reading it - probably overlooked it
<ricotz> Laney, hi :)
<ricotz> Laney, why does e-d-s have no gir1.2-ecalendar-1.2 package? libecal-1.2.so gained gi-bindings
<ricotz> Laney, ah nevermind
<seb128> ricotz, hey, if that's an overlook, patches are welcome as usual ;-)
<didrocks> mdeslaur: around?
<mdeslaur> didrocks: what's up?
<didrocks> mdeslaur: want to join the go session?
<mdeslaur> didrocks: sarnold and sbeattie are both there I believe
<mdeslaur> didrocks: you can ask one of them to join
<didrocks> mdeslaur: please do :)
<didrocks> mdeslaur: I sent them the HO links
<mdeslaur> didrocks: jdstrand is attending
<didrocks> mdeslaur: an nice!
<pitti> desrt: I looked at the logs for the spinned off "no network after suspend" issue, in bug 1252121
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1252121 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "missing resume signal because D-BUS connection goes away" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252121
<pitti> desrt: do you have an off-hand idea why the shim's d-bus connection object would suddenly get invalidated?
 * pitti waves good night
<desrt> pitti: no.  no idea.
<Sweetshark> um, alioth host indentification changed. Does anyone have a link to a showing the new fingerprint?
<desrt> Laney: found the ppc crasher.  valgrind bug.
<desrt> Laney: patch is available on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710983
<ubot2> Gnome bug 710983 in gio "Test failures on powerpc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> upstream bug is https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=278808
<ubot2> KDE bug 278808 in general "PPC32 Special Instruction sequence clobbers R0 instead of preserving R0" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<Ampelbein> Sweetshark: https://wiki.debian.org/Alioth/SSH ?
<Sweetshark> Ampelbein: seems to be outdated. But https://db.debian.org/machines.cgi?host=moszumanska is up-to-date.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-21
<Laney> desrt: NICE
<Laney> also, morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, what is NICE?
<Laney> https://bug710983.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=260389
<seb128> oh ok
<Laney> fixes the test failure on ppc :-)
<seb128> Laney, your e-d-s transition tracker seems like it was not complete
<Laney> doing a couple of uploads now
<seb128> what are things like nautilus-sendto not on it?
<Laney> maybe the affects line is incomplete?
<Laney> it looks at build-depends
 * Laney looks
<seb128> nautilus-sendto depends on libedataserver-1.2-17
<seb128> Laney, do you want me to do uploads/copies as well?
<Laney> it needs build-depends to show up
<Laney> i.e. to match "affected"
<Laney> which misses libebook
<seb128> right
<seb128> $ apt-cache search buggy
<seb128> Erreur de segmentation (core dumped)
 * seb128 shakes fist at apt
<seb128> Laney, need help on the eds uploads?
<Laney> just discovered thunderbird is in the list(!)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ is there an upload coming for that soon? I saw it spamming the ppc builders yesterday
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we need at least a no change rebuild in trusty for the e-d-s soname changes
<Laney> woah
<Laney> it's got hardcoded references to the soname in its rules file
<seb128> does it dlopen it or something?
<Laney> there's an extension i think
<seb128> pitti, hey, langpack question for you... do you know if we are supposed to do SRUs for non lts series (seems like we didn't do updates for quantal/raring)? and do you know when is the next precise update?
<seb128> I would ask dpm but he seems to not be online
<pitti> seb128: we can do them once someone volunteers to coordinate the updates and testing
<pitti> seb128: for now I planned to do the next precise update for 12.04.4
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, hey, do you know who is coming to the ibus/fcitx vUDS session later today?
<happyaron> seb128: not sure yet, currently we have  Anthony Wong, Stephen M. Webb, Joey Zheng, LoÃ¯c Minier, Ma Jun registered at summit.u.c.
<happyaron> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/21984/desktop-1311-default-imf-review/
<seb128> right
<seb128> lool said he wouldn't come
<seb128> just trying to check we have some people coming
<happyaron> ok
<happyaron> I'll share the my notes later no matter how many people particiapted in the session. I'm sure the session is less interesting cuz most developers here do not use IME day to day, :)
<seb128> happyaron, right, I'm still interested on us to decide on the topic
<om26er> How to add a package to the Touch seed ?
<Laney> om26er: Do a merge proposal against ~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.trusty
<om26er> I pulled lp:ubuntu/trusty-proposed/ubuntu-touch-meta and added a changelog entry. Edited the seed file and executed ./update
<om26er> am I doing it right ?
<Laney> no, the update script pulls from that branch
<chrisccoulson> seb128, a no-change rebuild of thunderbird won't fix it, it will need source changes to the addon ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's going to be fun
<seb128> chrisccoulson, shrug :/ are we the only distro to ship that code?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, we are indeed
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, so no benefiting from being once cycle behind e.g fedora there
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know how much change is going to be required?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure. the last time, it was quite a lot. i don't know what is different in eds this time though
<chrisccoulson> might be better just to disable it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what is the integration doing? loading addressbooks?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you have a look to see how much changed/if we can easily port or if we should disable it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, sure. how urgent is it? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no hurry, it doesn't need to be right now, you can do it tonight
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, new e-d-s is in trusty-proposed, but there are some other transitions involved before it can move to trusty proper
<happyaron> seb128 Laney just shared a google doc on the session
<Laney> hmm?
<Laney> oh the imf one
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<Laney> where's the link?
<happyaron> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-y9H8io-DNJtuL5jAaZnTuWlMYx8iJ2e2WskKbs2l0s
<seb128> Laney, in your emails :p
<Laney> no mail here
<Laney> anyway, ta
<Laney> Oh, it's in the first session - won't be able to make that. I'm not sure I have so much to offer though, but if I can help then let me know
<Laney> Don't forget to consider the J and K too ;-)
<seb128> attente, hey, did you want to join the ibus/fcitx vUDS session?
<attente> seb128, sure
<seb128> attente, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpj1rpnctlhe2prk9a6sok98?authuser=0
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, do you have people invited to your printing sessions later on? is there anything new to discuss since last time we discussed those topics?
<desrt> Laney: thanks for the guest account :)
<desrt> you debian guys are OK
<Laney> desrt: yeah the porter machines are useful
<Laney> glad you tracked it down
<desrt> pochu said he would try to find the arm thing next
<Laney> he asked for it to be retried
<Laney> https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=glib2.0&suite=experimental
<desrt> oh hurd
<desrt> dpkg-buildpackage: warning: build dependencies/conflicts unsatisfied; aborting
<desrt> thanks for trying, though...
<desrt> looks like ppc is still failing in make check...
<Laney> hasn't been uploaded yet
<desrt> or does the 'out-of-date' thing mean that it's in queue to try again?
<desrt> gotcha
<Laney> remove &suite=experimental and you can see hurd worked before ;-)
<desrt> Laney: if/when it starts building, i'd appreciate some love on the upstream report
<Laney> where worked is 'built', bet it didn't run/pass the testsuite
<desrt> ya... pochu was saying that you don't bother running tests on kfreebsd or hurd because they all fail :)
<Laney> sure, I already confirmed it fixes the failure in my chroot
<desrt> that's a bit... annoying
<desrt> i guess it comes down to what you have resources to look into, though, and i have to admit that kfreebsd debian testsuite failures would not be a #1 TODO list item upstream either :)
<Laney> I might make it run them but not fail on them, at least
<desrt> ya.  could be good to have the info.
<seb128> tjaalton, here? joining the ad session?
<seb128> tjaalton, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/76cpieo3pau403q9rso9bqu6q4?authuser=0
<tjaalton> yep
<seb128> Laney, do you remember how to sync from Debian incoming?
<Laney> is there a proper way?
<seb128> that's sort of what I was asking :p
<seb128> seems maybe not ;-)
<Laney> Download, sign, upload
<seb128> how often is debian incoming "flushed"?
<Laney> can't wait until LP imports it?
<seb128> well
<seb128> that's libffi
<seb128> the current version makes binaries smash stack on ppc
<seb128> which makes lot of stuff unhappy, especially indicators
<seb128> we need to get the fixed version in
<Laney> every dinstall run
<seb128> and maybe to rebuild users that built with the buggy version
<seb128> how often is dinstall running nowadays?
<Laney> then you have to wait for LP to pick it up
<Laney> 21/11 15:16:08 <Laney> !dinstall
<Laney> 21/11 15:16:08 <dak> Laney: Dinstall is running, postlock phase
<Laney> not entirely helpful
<seb128> ok, let's wait a bit
<tkamppeter> seb128, I did not explicitly invite people, there are people on the Blueprints.
<seb128> tkamppeter, can you check if people are going to come?
<tkamppeter> seb128, how can I see that?
<seb128> tkamppeter, do you have topics to discuss that were not discussed before/updates/new things to discuss during those sessions?
<seb128> tkamppeter, well, just ping the people you would like to have there to see if they are going to come
<happyaron> attente: I think you can try fcitx a little bit, it should work out of the box in 13.10.
<happyaron> attente: fcitx itself has decent indicator support, so no additional work required at that part even if we'd like to switch this cycle.
 * desrt notes https://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/AlternateMenubarLayout
<attente> happyaron, i tried it before, but couldn't get the candidate window to appear
<happyaron> though the nux bug needs a solution.
<happyaron> attente: what's your set up?
<happyaron> if you are running a CJK locale, apt-get install fcitx fcitx-libpinyin; im-config -n fcitx; re-login. should do the work.
<attente> happyaron, not running a CJK locale, but i'll try it again
<attente> although i have a fresh install this time
<happyaron> attente: if possible, trying installing with a ubuntu kylin iso would also give you a sane default setup.
<attente> happyaron, but do you think this is a good cycle to switch?
<seb128> desrt, funny, I was just working on a patch for a menubar ;-)
<desrt> seb128: so uh... try to do this ^^ :)
<desrt> what app?
<happyaron> attente: from the point of risk management, it isn't. technically I think it's ready.
<seb128> desrt, cursing vala on the way, trying to figure out how to do the
<seb128>    settings = gtk_settings_get_default ();
<seb128>    g_object_bind_property
 * desrt was just looking for an app to test these ideas on
<seb128> desrt, gcalctool
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> gnome-calculator
<desrt> ;)
<desrt> it doesn't really have a headerbar...
<attente> happyaron, i guess the one thing we really got burned on was modifier-only input switching
<seb128> desrt, oh, I was replacing the appmenu by a menubar
<happyaron> attente: you mean ibus?
<seb128> was -> am
<attente> happyaron, well, this is more related to the switching between keyboard layouts
<desrt> seb128: ah.  that's not covered by this case, but it's an interesting point.
<seb128> desrt, it's similar changes
<attente> but if fcitx handles it well, i'd be a little less afraid of ibus -> fcitx
<happyaron> attente: yes. and if switch to fcitx then all previous work towards the input source integration are not needed.
<desrt> cool.  are we dropping ibus?
<happyaron> desrt: we had a vUDS session just now, :)
<seb128> desrt, not for the LTS, we might after
<desrt> sigh
<seb128> desrt, the biggest user of IM, being Kylin, is already using fcitx
<desrt> CJK people are upset -> drop ibus!!
<desrt> everyone else is upset -> uh... oops.
<happyaron> honestly switching to fcitx this cycle can give a better overall status of input method than keeping ibus, and less work. But that's not the way risk management suggests to do, :)
<attente> happyaron, yeah, can't seem to switch using ctrl + left shift
<attente> but ctrl + space works
<attente> and i'm getting the candidates window working if i do that, it works well
<seb128> happyaron, right, we also have no feedback whatsoever from non Chinese users on fcitx
<happyaron> seb128: I think you get feedback of Japanese users on the thread you post on ubuntu-devel@
<attente> happyaron, if we were to switch to fcitx, would we be using it for keyboard layouts as well?
<happyaron> attente: I recommend to do so.
<happyaron> I think the only thing to afraid is trying keyboard layouts of fcitx, for engines they perform basically the same under all IMFs.
<attente> happyaron, i can't seem to switch layouts using the modifier-only options
<happyaron> attente: have you added those layouts in fcitx?
<attente> happyaron, do you know how that's implemented? is it using the grp xkb option?
<attente> happyaron, yes, it works with a regular trigger like ctrl+space
<desrt> attente: are you back in toronto today?
<tkamppeter> seb128, how is the hangout supposed to be started?
<attente> desrt, yes
<seb128> tkamppeter: by the track lead (me in this case), one minute
<desrt> attente: cool.  if we can meet up, i'd like to look at your mac...
<attente> desrt, when?
<happyaron> attente: better as csslayer for xkb part detail
<desrt> lunch/after?
<attente> happyaron, sure
<happyaron> attente: you may want to install fcitx-config-gtk3 for configuration (if not pulled by Recommends)
<attente> happyaron, if you have more than one IM/layout, is it supposed to cycle?
<happyaron> attente: yes
<attente> something like the US layout, pinyin, russian keyboard layout
<attente> weird, it's only swapping between the first two for me
<happyaron> let me try a bit, was using ibus for debugging it.
<happyaron> attente: ctrl+space to cycle within a layout, ctrl+shift to cycle among layouts.
<attente> happyaron, ctrl+shift doesn't seem to be working for me
<attente> happyaron, this is under unity, right?
<happyaron> attente: you may need to first ctrl+space to an IM engine, cuz the first layout/im means inactive status as well
<happyaron> so when you are at the first layout/im, fcitx will behave semi-inactively.
<attente> yep, that worked
<happyaron> :)
<attente> so basically you need to switch before cycling?
<happyaron> means you need to switch to something not the first layout/im before switching layouts.
<happyaron> ctrl+space is actually toggling the active/inactive status of fcitx, and ctrl+shift is cycling among the list.
<attente> was that done because chinese users prefer that, or because of technical reasons?
<happyaron> This is intential because there was an active/inactive logic in all previously existed IMF, including ibus. It's very much useful for people don't switch among layouts.
<happyaron> ibus removed that logic in favor of the input-source integration.
<attente> so i'm trying to look at it from a russian user's perspective right now
<happyaron> k
<attente> if i have just english and russian keyboard layouts
<attente> and i don't need to cycle anything since i just have the two
<happyaron> so you only need ctrl+space
<happyaron> for example you have en keyboard as the first, ru as the second
<happyaron> default status is en keyboard, ctrl+space would switch to ru.
<attente> happyaron, so what about using left ctrl, or ctrl+shift as the trigger?
<attente> it doesn't seem to be working from what i can tell
<happyaron> attente: I don't know why left ctrl does not work here under unity, but I'm sure it works under KDE.
<attente> ok, something we could work through i guess :)
<happyaron> :)
<attente> happyaron, so if we were to switch to fcitx for default in unity, what would happen with gnome-shell?
<happyaron> attente: this extension is needed for decent appearence: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/261/kimpanel/
<happyaron> nothing more to do.
<attente> happyaron, but there's also gnome's integration with ibus, like the region panel in g-c-c
<happyaron> well, that's work to do. If we still want to integrate the configration in to g-c-c then quite some workload, if that optional, then fcitx has it's own configuration tool.
<happyaron> there is API for writing another configuration tool, and in Ubuntu Kylin we are already doing so, though it's integrated into fcitx-qimpanel.
<pitti> larsu: hey, do you know whether we'll switch from system-config-printer to indicator-printer (or something else which doesn't use gtk2/python2)?
<seb128> pitti, nothing planned around those lines
<seb128> pitti, the GNOME panel is still buggy/lacking features, and we don't plan to invest lot of work in printing this cycle
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, the GNOME panel also use s-c-p-dbus as a backend I think
<seb128> yw
<pitti> seb128: btw, do you know why compiz-gnome recommends python-gconf?
<pitti> seb128: I can easily purge that from a default install, it's just that recommends
<pitti> seb128: isn't compiz using dconf these days?
<seb128> for the config migration iirc
<seb128> need to keep that until the lts
<seb128> e.g for precise->trusty updates
<seb128> bug #1041498
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1041498 in compiz (Ubuntu) "02_migrate_to_gsettings.py crashed with ImportError in __main__: No module named gconf" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041498
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<seb128> yw
 * didrocks reboots
<Laney> grah
<Laney> why is online accounts doing some weird thing in u-s-s?
<Laney> this is the modal window thing mardy was talking about I guess
<GunnarHj> happyaron, attente: Just reviewed your discussion this afternoon (UTC). If we would switch to fcitx, and let it handle keybord layouts as well, wouldn't it mean that we wouldn't need to use g-c-c region at all? So the huge patch that seb128 previously managed would not be needed.
<attente> GunnarHj, sorry, which patch is that? the text entry one?
<GunnarHj> attente: I mean the patch that turned the text entry back to the old keyboard layout.
<GunnarHj> attente: Before 13.10, that is.
<attente> GunnarHj, sorry... still not sure i follow you. upstream g-c-c has the region panel, so if we're removing any patch, that panel is still there
<GunnarHj> attente: I was thinking that using fcitx also for keyboard layouts would mean that we don't need any of the tabs in g-c-c region. Wouldn't that be easier to handle compared to using certain current or old parts of g-c-c?
<GunnarHj> ... region
<GunnarHj> attente: Basically, what I'm saying (without knowing if it would be sensible) is that we could remove all g-c-c region related patches and simply not display the region icon in system settings.
<attente> GunnarHj, i think we might still need in gnome-shell though
<attente> because gnome is sticking with ibus integration
<GunnarHj> attente: Do you mean UbuntuGNOME?
<attente> GunnarHj, no, just gnome-shell
<GunnarHj> attente: I don't know enough about the code structure to follow you now. It was just a thought...
<attente> GunnarHj, i guess we'd need to write an entirely new panel that calls fcitx configuration api if we want those to be available through g-c-c
<attente> otherwise, we could tell users to always configure through fcitx-config-gtk, but i don't know how nice that is
<GunnarHj> attente: Yes, that makes a lot of sense, of course.
<GunnarHj> attente: Not very nice. We should have a way from system settings, absolutely.
<attente> GunnarHj, sorry, i keep forgetting, i guess it won't affect gnome-shell very much since we're forking g-s-d and g-c-c for the lts
<GunnarHj> attente: Ok...
<attente> so i guess strictly speaking, this is a decision about which we want in unit
<attente> y
<GunnarHj> attente: Ok. Yes, I understand that no final decision has been made yet.
<attente> happyaron, GunnarHj, one thing i hadn't considered, if we switch to fcitx, how well this will work under unity-greeter
<GunnarHj> attente: Sounds like a question for happyaron. I have absolutely no idea.
<Sweetshark> <Jack D. Ripper voice>These Red Hat guys are trying to sap and impurify our bodily fluids!</>
<Sweetshark> now they even crawl our precious launchpad: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/ANN-get-bugzilla-attachments-by-mimetype-with-launchpad-support-on-Fedora-td4084328.html
<tjaalton> will we get g-c-c 3.8.x in trusty?
<seb128> tjaalton, not likely, why?
<tjaalton> seb128: it supports joining an authentication domain from the user setup capplet, utilizing realmd
<seb128> tjaalton, we can backport a panel update if needed, the plan is to fork g-c-c (the new version has some new depends on gnome-shell for e.g display and some design/ui changes we don't want)
<tjaalton> same thing with g-s-d? i think 3.8 got the nifty wacom settings thing like osx/win
<tjaalton> press a button on it and it shows a config window of sorts
<tjaalton> backporing some of g-c-c would be fine
<seb128> tjaalton, yes, we plan to fork both and merge selective changes then
<tjaalton> ok cool
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping!
<sil2100> seb128: hello :)
<seb128> sil2100, night
<kenvandine> hey sil2100
<sil2100> seb128: goodnight then!
<attente> bschaefer, hey
<sil2100> kenvandine: could you review this branch? It has some small packaging fixes
<sil2100> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-scopes-api/small_package_fixes/+merge/196195
<sil2100> kenvandine: I'm still fixing copyright if anything
<sil2100> kenvandine: but that's a separate branch
<bschaefer> attente, hello
<attente> bschaefer, wondering if you can help me out here, i seemed to have put unity into an unusable state
<kenvandine> sil2100, done
<kenvandine> sil2100, that was easy :)
<attente> bschaefer, i can log in as a guest user, but no unity shell for my main use
<attente> r
<attente> is there a log file i can check to see what happened?
<sil2100> kenvandine: thanks ;p
<bschaefer> attente, i can in a little bit, i need to get something done first
<attente> bschaefer, sure, sorry, take your time
<attente> i'll try some other stuff
<bschaefer> attente, sorry, just have to finish up this email...don't want to lose my tain of thought...maybe 10-20 min?
<bschaefer> possibly ChrisTownsend might be able to help :)
<attente> ok, no problem :)
 * attente switches to gnome-shell
<ChrisTownsend> attente: Hey, try looking in ~/.cache/upstart/gnome-session.log for a starting point or whichever one of those has the bad login.
<seb128> attente, did you figure it out?
<attente> seb128, no, seems to be stopping at the ezoom plugin
<seb128> attente, what did you change/hack on?
<seb128> did you make install in /usr?
<attente> seb128, i didn't change anything as far as i can tell
<seb128> weird
<seb128> is it segfaulting or just hanging or ...?
<attente> it must be in my home though
<attente> if i log in as a new user, it works
<seb128> rm -r .compiz* .config/compiz* ?
<attente> yep
<seb128> what's happening exactly?
<attente> tracker-miner-fs emits warnings
<attente> zeitgeist-data-hub has a critical
<seb128> well, visually
<seb128> is compiz failing to start?
<seb128> or is it starting without the unity bits?
<attente> compiz starts, but unityshell doesn't appear, so i'm stuck with a background
<seb128> $ gsettings get org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins
<mhr3> kenvandine, do you know why sil2100 added https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-scopes-api/small_package_fixes/+merge/196195/comments/453778 ?
<seb128> attente, ^ what does that returns?
<attente> seb128, :S
<kenvandine> mhr3, oh... good catch
<attente> it's missing?
<kenvandine> maybe it was a mistake
<attente> weird...
<seb128> attente, reset that key
<seb128> attente, well "weird", compiz tend to do that :/ if the plugin fails to load for a reason it might drop it from the active list
<seb128> attente, so maybe you did hit a bug or made it unhappy once and that was enough...
<attente> seb128, can't reset it, dconf can't write to it
<seb128> attente, ?
<seb128> attente, $ gsettings reset org.compiz.core:/org/compiz/profiles/unity/plugins/core/ active-plugins
<attente> dbus isn't up i guess
<seb128> attente, oh, dbus-launch <command> then
<seb128> why isn't dbus up?
<seb128> do you su from another useR?
<attente> seb128, thanks, it's working again :D
<seb128> attente, yw
<attente> not sure why dbus wasn't up though, or how that key got reset in the first place
<seb128> well, the reset is probably what I said
<seb128> the plugin failed to load once for $reason and compiz decided to disable it
<attente> right, sorry, i meant how that key changed in the first place
<attente> oh
<seb128> yeah for the wm being that modular
<attente> hmm.. your shell doesn't work, guess you don't need one?
<sarnold> is that how focus-follows-mouse or autoraise settings get forgotten periodically?
<seb128> lol, yeah, it's like wm decoration are a plugin
<seb128> or windows placement
<attente> lol
<sarnold> "oh gee sorry no mouse yet registered I'll just go ahead and forget that focus-following-mouse nonsense" ? :)
<seb128> sarnold, I think that one is different, but focus follow mouse is an non supported feature nowadays...
<sarnold> seb128: yes, I know, someone's been giving me subtle hints that I'm not welcome here any more, but I'm not good at taking hints. :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> you are welcome to learn and evolve
<seb128> ;-)
<sarnold> nineteen or twenty year old habits are pretty hard to break. you might as well ask me to switch to emacs.. :)
<sil2100> mhr3: yes, that was a leftover, we need to get that removed
<sil2100> mhr3: did you see https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-scopes-api/license_fixes/+merge/196198 ?
<sil2100> mhr3: what do you think?
<seb128> sarnold, if you are using vi I for sure would suggest you emacs ;-)
<mhr3> sil2100, i'm actually not 100% which one we want
<sarnold> seb128: lol :)  <3
<mhr3> sil2100, not 100% sure
<mhr3> sil2100, i think your branch is good, but will check with thomas
<sil2100> mhr3: I saw COPYING mention LGPL, so I went with this one
<sil2100> mhr3: also, LGPL seems a bit more fitting for all library-like projects - but get feedback from Thomas and approve then
<seb128> sarnold, joke aside, I saw some comments about ffm being resetted, but I've no idea about that one ... that's a simple setting, not a compiz .so by itself right?
<seb128> oh, dpm is around
<seb128> dpm, hey, how are you?
 * dpm hides
<sarnold> seb128: sorry, I don't know compiz internals well enough to know where it's implemented :(
<seb128> sarnold, k, I'm pretty sure it's a simple setting
<seb128> dpm, lol
<dpm> hey seb128, very well, managed to survive UDS too? :-)
<seb128> dpm, yes!
<dpm> :)
<seb128> dpm, some french translators were asking why we didn't get langpack updates for raring, do you know?
<seb128> dpm, is that lack of people to work on those update? did anyone do a call for help or something?
<dpm> seb128, simply because we don't currently have anyone in charge of releasing the language packs :/
<seb128> dpm, do we have a description of what that involves to point to people asking (in case one of them want to step up for the job?)
<dpm> seb128, unfortunately, it's not easy to get community participation there, since building the packages requires access to Canonical servers
<seb128> dpm, I though that the export/build was automated? (e.g just a cron job)
<dpm> seb128, I'm trying to remind myself how all worked, but at least I recall the full langpacks need to be manually built. Let me see if I can find the docs, just a sec
<seb128> dpm, don't bother, it's late, we can talk about it tomorrow
<seb128> dpm, I didn't mean to make you work more after hours ;-)
<dpm> seb128, no worries :)
<dpm> seb128, yeah, we can talk about it in more detail tomorrow, especially if pitti is around, but essentially this is the langpack build process: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/doc/operator-guide.txt
<seb128> dpm, ok, thanks for the link, let's talk a bit more about it tomorrow
<seb128> dpm, have a good night!
<dpm> cool, have a good night too!
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-22
<coder-guy22296> hey guys
<coder-guy22296> im new and i want to get involved in the Development process
<coder-guy22296> hey ther
<coder-guy22296> im new and i want to get involved in the Development process
<sarnold> hello coder-guy22296 -- you've arrived a bit late in the day for most users, not yet early engh for europe to be awake, but after .us has quit for the night :)
<coder-guy22296> are you a developer?
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: for me, it's complicated. I'm not an official ubuntu developer, but I'm on the security team, so I've got upload privileges to all the released distributions -- but not the development distribution. haha. :)
<coder-guy22296> thats cool
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: usually people will pick a few projects that they want to help improve, and provide patches or test patches or so forth, and eventually start getting some developer privileges
<coder-guy22296> I noticed a bug in Ubuntu that has been around for a couple releases
<coder-guy22296> and I would like to help out
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: well, first start, is the bug filed in launchpad yet?
<coder-guy22296> no, not yet
<sarnold> you might be surprised, I got ready to file a bug earlier tonight and foud someone else had beat me to it :)
<coder-guy22296> I want to get to a position where i can fix bugs
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: anyway, the first step is filing a bug -- you can file a bug with 'ubuntu-bug', and if you know the name of the package or program that is buggy, 'ubuntu-bug` takes pid or program or package arguments...
<sarnold> cool :) more help squashing bugs is always welcome
<coder-guy22296> first of all, what language is Ubuntu coded in?
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: dozens of languages; C, C++, Python 2, Python 3, shell, awk, sed, perl, go, erlang, java, vala, qml, javascript, ...
<coder-guy22296> Im not really sure what the package or program would be, its a small bug where I noticed a 1-2 pixel shift to the right in the desktop's display area
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: so, is it something like a strip of black pixels running along the edge of the screen?
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: or does part of the contents run off the edge of the screen?
<coder-guy22296> I have to multiple displays, so yes it is a 2pixel strip of my left desktop on the left side of my right monitor
<coder-guy22296> *2
<coder-guy22296> and it is possible that a 2pixel strip on the right is also missing
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: ha! never seen that one before. :)
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: okay, I'd say file that against 'xorg' -- "ubuntu-bug xorg" -- and then fill out the fields once your web browser prompts you  :)
<coder-guy22296> it has not been fixed in the last 2 releases
<sarnold> coder-guy22296: okay, time for me to call it a night; have fun!
<coder-guy22296> night
<pitti> Good morning
<Laney> morning
<Laney> happy friday!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> happy friday!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> how are you?
<Sweetshark> Moin!
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks, a bit tired though ... looking for something easy to do today ;-) (it might end up being some debian merges/updates/bug triage)
<seb128> Laney, you?
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> hey Laney, moin moin Sweetshark
<Laney> hey pitti seb128
<pitti> seb128: un peu fatigue, mais bien ! (merci dieu c'est vendredi :) )
<seb128> pitti, pareil ici ;-)
<Laney> I'm good, remembering that my go at "reset API" yesterday didn't work
<Laney> so now I want to ignore that and look at something else :P
<seb128> hehe, joining me on the easy friday ;-)
<Laney> I don't understand why online accounts wants to open its own window
<Laney> my approach was "look for a 'reset' method in each of the pagecomponents"
<Laney> but that breaks it
 * Laney goes to ask mardy
<seb128> Laney, did you use the vcs for the e-d-s update and forgot to push or did you not use it? (in the former case can you push? if that's the later one, I can copy the changes back there no worry)
<Laney> oh I think I did, sec
<Laney> seb128: yep, pushed
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, cyphermox, larsu: good, indicator tests/daily build are back to green with the new libffi
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, so everything was rebuilt?
<didrocks> seb128: I'll ask cyphermox to release it as soon as he's around :)
<didrocks> after some phone testing :p
<seb128> didrocks, seems like rebuilds are not needed after all (at least the binaries stop hitting smashed stack issues)
<larsu> seb128: \o/
<seb128> oh, a larsu!
<seb128> larsu, hey, how are you? happy friday!
<didrocks> seb128: sweetness!
<larsu> seb128: oh, I forgot the happy-Friday wishes this morning... Happy Friday!
<larsu> seb128: I'm good thanks. How are you?
<Laney> oh, no datetime indicator this morning
<Laney> don't we have that fix in trusty?
<Laney> hmm, we do
<seb128> Laney, no we don't, we need an indicator landing, that was the heated discussion a week ago
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/13.10.0+13.10.20131023.2-0ubuntu1
<Laney> = trusty
<seb128> oh, datetime
<seb128> the session one is missing for sure
<seb128> Laney, is indicator-datetime-service running?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> i wonder...
<seb128> ok, so different issue
<seb128> is it installed?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> does it work if you run it manually?
<larsu> did the upstart stuff land?
<seb128> no
<Laney> just did, it worked
<seb128> larsu, landing was blocked due to the ppc smashed stack issue
<seb128> it might happen today if the moons are correctly aligned, who knows ;-)
<larsu> Laney: do you have the same issue if you kill indicator-datetime-service and restart unity-panel-service
<larsu> seb128: I'll check the moons
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> I see that it timed out in dbus.log
<Laney> comes up properly with u-p-s
<seb128> ok, so we don't know
<Laney> oh well
<seb128> would be useful to see if the service is running and get a bt, if you get the issue again
<Laney> I saw that it wasn't running
<seb128> because it timeouted
<Laney> because dbus activation timed out
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> which could be the lock issue
<seb128> but without a bt we can't say...
 * larsu tries to dbus-activate it manually
<seb128> trick is to think about getting the bt before it timeouts ;-)
<Laney> a bt of what?
<Laney> haha
<seb128> indicator-datetime-service
<seb128> well, if you ever get the issue again
<seb128> I don't here, I just get it with indicator-session, but that one is missing the lock fix in trusty
<larsu> hm, works fine here
 * didrocks doesn't see any moon, just snow clouds
<didrocks> omg, the cloud is snowy, we are all lost!
 * didrocks runs in circle
<Laney> we were supposed to get snow this week
<Laney> never happened
<didrocks> we stole it from you!
<Laney> >:|
<Laney> post it back right this instant
<didrocks> hehe
<didrocks> Laney: so, after mostly a week, still loving your new chair?
<Laney> didrocks: yeah, it's still nice
<didrocks> great ;)
<Laney> the only bad thing is that it's not so good to put your feet up on
<Laney> the side of the armrests is a bit sharp
<didrocks> yeah, but that's a bad position for your back!
<Laney> it sure is
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I guess you noticed that your recent firefox upload to trusty failed to build on arm/ppc?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/0787526e0ed6
<chrisccoulson> i'll sort that out in a bit
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> Laney, do you know what's the deal with dbus-sharp changing it's abi version, do we simply need a rebuild of tomboy/banshee or do they need change? is anyone working on doing those changes in Debian?
<Laney> seb128: they need a bit of porting, and yes people are working on it
<Laney> I'm not tracking it though
<seb128> ok
<Laney> check with directhex in -devel
<Laney> he should know how far along that is
<seb128> I just saw it being stucked in trusty-proposed
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> lol, I didn't expect anyone would add a serious comment to bug 1253763
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253763 in firefox (Ubuntu) "xxx" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253763
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol, I see that you still get top quality bug reports ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yep :)
<chrisccoulson> did you see my comment? ;)
<didrocks> seb128: you know what? chrisccoulson even participated at UDS!
<seb128> yes ;-)
<seb128> did he?
<chrisccoulson> i attended 1 session!
<didrocks> seb128: on the last client2 session
<seb128> I didn't see an oxyde session this time
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: the best for the end, right?
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> or the webapp stuff
<didrocks> seb128: webapps on desktop
<seb128> oh*
<seb128> that makes sense
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw, did you have a look to libebook/tb?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, we decided we didn't need any sessions for oxide this time around. we had one last time, and all of the major items already have assignees. we don't want more work :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet
<seb128> k
<didrocks> seb128: see, they are slacking
<didrocks> I'm sure all those security guys, they check the html5 youtube security watching cat videos all the day along
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson hates cats for some reason
<seb128> I don't get it
<chrisccoulson> they crap all over the garden!
<seb128> well, they dig a small hole and hide their stuff
<seb128> clever animals!
<chrisccoulson> i wish that were true. they try to do it, but it doesn't work so well when they do it in the middle of the lawn ;)
<Sweetshark> oh great
<Sweetshark> Open LibreOffice 4.2 beta1 on trusty => works. And there was much rejoicing! Click "File->Close" => Crash.
 * Sweetshark bets it would work like a charm on saucy though :/
<Laney> crashing seems like an efficient way to end the program to me :P
<Sweetshark> Laney: File->Close isnt File->Quit. We didnt gnome3-simplified ("it would confuse users") that difference away yet.
<Laney> oh man, I've been simplified
 * xnox feels basic
 * Sweetshark feels relieved.
<Sweetshark> seems (hopefully) to be only a dependency mess up.
<dwarakesh> I am unable to adjust brightness on a newly installed ubuntu system (laptop), can anyone help?
<pitti> desrt: aaaargh!
<pitti> desrt: I was wondering what on earth would talk to the session bus (which fails) in shim; look again at https://github.com/desrt/systemd-shim/commit/136ed11430 ...
<pitti> desrt: trivial, but for the sake of peer review: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6458615/
<seb128> pitti, hey, I just crossed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udisks2/+bug/1080745 while looking at gdu bugs ... do you want me to forward that to the BTS or is launchpad enough?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1080745 in udisks2 (Ubuntu) "shoulds Recommends gdisk since it uses sgdisk commands" [Low,Confirmed]
<pitti> seb128: LP is enough
<pitti> seb128: can you please subscribe or assign me?
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, btw do you have an opinion on updating gdu to 3.10? it seems to not have newer depends and there is like 15 code commits between 3.8 and 3.10, mostly bug fixes and small things
<seb128> pitti, done
<pitti> seb128: yep, sounds good to me
<seb128> ok, doing the update then
<pitti> seb128: I'll do that in Debian, too
<pitti> or that
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> ah, we have ubuntu mods, argh
<seb128> pitti, Debian already has 3.10, I'm just merging
<pitti> seb128: anyway, I just finished wrestling with suspend bugs; now watchign didrocks live (CI airline), and then I'll call it a week
<pitti> seb128: ah, splendid
<pitti> seb128: will do gvfs early next week (sorry, didn't get to it yet)
<seb128> pitti, no worry about gvfs ... btw we might want to directly go with 1.19, seems like gvfs finally has an active maintainer and is getting some overdue bugs fixes
<seb128> pitti, enjoy the CI video and w.e ;-)
<pitti> yeah, I'll check
<pitti> I also want to update pygobject, that got some nice fixes too
 * pitti waves to Captain didrocks, merci :)
<pitti> didrocks: can we collect bonus miles?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is that something you know about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1231273 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1231273 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox does not show google geo location map" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that bug states we need a custom key
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm aware of that
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. people who land changes with a high percentage of success get processed faster, or get a personal handshake from you, or so? :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, I was mentioning it in case it's useful information ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks ;)
<didrocks> pitti: heh, yeah, you will be able to get upgrades as well :)
<didrocks> and we'll introduce CI coins
 * didrocks buys a lot before the market is going crazy
<pitti> didrocks: oh, we'll get bitcoins for uploads? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: CIcoins, easier for us to produce "money"
<didrocks> ;)
<pitti> bah
<didrocks> come on, who would refuse a first-class upgrade to fly to ubuntu? :)
 * seb128 reads the story about that guy who bough for 50â¬ of bitcoins back then to end up with some 300 000â¬ today
<seb128> I wonder if CIcoins are going to be the same
<seb128> didrocks, can I get some of those reserved, just in case? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I think it was > 1M, as he bought an appartment for that
<pitti> (in NY)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, don't do that. we need you here!
<didrocks> seb128: you surely do have some provisionned for you :)
<seb128> pitti, could be, I just know it was "almost nothing" to "a lot of money"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<pitti> seb128: yeah, indeed; he bought them at the time when ~ 1.200 B$ == 1US$
<pitti> and now 1B$ is roughly 700 US$
<chrisccoulson> we have to try and keep seb128 away from all "get rich quick" schemes
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what's wrong with me getting rich? I mean throw up nice conf^parties then and invite you all :p
<chrisccoulson> hah :)
<mdeslaur> seb128: don't move to an island :)
<desrt> pitti: oh christ
<desrt> pitti: please proceed
<desrt> pitti: i'm so used to working on the session bus....
<pitti> desrt: I have some feeling that I'm being haunted by this stuff
<pitti> desrt: pushed
<pitti> desrt: but some bug reporter just said "njargh, still broken", waiting for a debug log from him
<desrt> pitti: we're in an inherently ugly business
<pitti> it's like every time I look at such a bug report I hear a little Lennart in my head, shouting "you will be in pain!!!"
<desrt> :)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, could you commit your g-c-c fix/upload to the packaging vcs? (lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu)
<pitti> desrt: followed up to the bug again
<pitti> and with that, I wish everyone a nice weekend, otherwise this week will never stop
 * Laney hugs pitti
<Laney> have a good weekend
<seb128> pitti, have a nice w.e as well, say hello to Annett from me ;-)
<desrt> pitti: take care :)
<pitti> seb128: I will!
<pitti> desrt: no parcel for you today either? :-(
<desrt> Laney: did you get my poke yesterday?
<Laney> kind of
<desrt> pitti: parcel?
<Laney> I can't remember thinking that I needed to answer though
<Laney> re-poke me
<desrt> Laney: poke!
<Laney> ow :(
<desrt> Laney: hey.  when will we have new glib/dconf in t-?
<pitti> didrocks, cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/autopilot-gtk/source-format/+merge/196297 - 1.0 !?!
<Laney> desrt: oh, maybe next week
<desrt> Laney: nice
<Laney> kind of scared about glib
<seb128> pitti, you don't want to start that discussion tonight ;-) basically everything under CI is 1.0
<desrt> Laney: what's wrong with glib?
<pitti> desrt: sorry, nick fail; I meant didrocks
<Laney> seems big
<pitti> seb128: I don't? ok
<desrt> pitti: damn.  i thought i was getting a parcel :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, in a hangout, there are multiple reasons for that, I can expose it for you after the meeting
<desrt> Laney: changeset is big, you mean?
<Laney> ya
<seb128> pitti, Lyon has been under snow so maybe traffic to get there has some delay
<desrt> ya... that's true
<pitti> didrocks: no worries; I thought it was due to the recent dpkg changes
<desrt> but at least it'll work on ppc?
<Laney> well, better to get it in early in that case
<Laney> haha
<pitti> seb128: no, didrocks doesn't answer his doorbell :-P
<Laney> it always passed on ubuntu ppc for some reason
<didrocks> pitti: it's a consequence, but it's also the only way to support upstream
<seb128> pitti, haha
<desrt> the phone guys are poking me about dconf work they need ... ideally by end-of-year
<didrocks> tsss
<desrt> and i won't be able to land it without a new glib
 * didrocks continues his meeting :)
<Laney> okay, well do your work based on it
<Laney> we'll get it in
<desrt> i am :)
<desrt> thanks
<seb128> pitti, well, it takes some time to get dressed to be able to go open the door... ;-)
<pitti> ok, really off now &
 * pitti waves
<seb128> pitti, have fun!
<seb128> ttyl
<desrt> pitti: i hope your parcels make it!
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> Laney, ?
<Laney> thinking about this custom plugins thing
<Laney> how would you handle library directories?
<Laney> files under XDG_DATA_DIRS are easy
<seb128> Laney, "library directories"?
<Laney> yes, the private libraries
<Laney> PLUGIN_PRIVATE_MODULE_DIR currently
<seb128> oh, to load plugins from other locations?
<seb128> I don't really know :/
<seb128> seems like a good question for the qt/sdk guys
<seb128> or kenvandine/mardy maybe have an idea about that
<Laney> Don't know if it's valid to ask foreach XDG_DATA_DIR/../libdir
<seb128> DATA feels wrong
<Laney> but that's shonky
<Laney> so, dunno what else you could do other than hardcode it at build time
<Laney> which isn't very well matched with using XDG_DATA_DIRS
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end
<seb128> Laney, we should maybe check with e.g the online accounts are doing
<seb128> but that feels like something for next week
 * seb128 calls it a week
<chrisccoulson> hah, i like french weather reports - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10465935/French-weathergirl-stuns-viewers-with-nude-report.html
<chrisccoulson> seb128 ;)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> see you
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> have a good w.e everyone!
<desrt> chrisccoulson: attente was thinking about porting firefox to gmenumodel.  any thoughts on that?
<chrisccoulson> desrt, i don't mind, as long as it continues to work with dbusmenu ;)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, is attente volunteering to maintain firefox? :)
<desrt> you've got SRUs on the brain
<desrt> chrisccoulson: we fooled him once with taking up working on the input methods infra.  i doubt we're going to fool him with firefox :)
<chrisccoulson> ah, it was worth a try ;)
<attente> oh you guys... :P
<chrisccoulson> attente, firefox is in need of a loving maintainer ;)
<attente> desrt, you're working for canonical now, right :P
 * desrt leaves early for the weekend -- goodbye everyone!
<chrisccoulson> have a good weekend desrt!
<attente> lol...
 * desrt (kidding, unfortunately)
<attente> chrisccoulson, how are the menus in firefox passed off to dbusmenu right now?
<chrisccoulson> attente, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox-trunk.head/view/head:/debian/patches/unity-menubar.patch
<attente> chrisccoulson, wow. big patch :)
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson: yo
<cyphermox> you still looking after thunderbird and all? I'd like to rebuild it for e-d-s fun stuff
<cyphermox> namely, thunderbird-gnome-support depends on an old e-d-s lib and blocks the transition, AFAICT
<Laney> he knows
<Laney> but it is tied into fun things via mapi anyway
<cyphermox> oh ok
<Laney> the eds transition, that is
<cyphermox> looks to me like mapi is probably not that bad though?
<Laney> depends how much you like libav
<cyphermox> craphouse
<Laney> it's pretty sad
 * Laney relocates to pub to drown sorrows over it
<Laney> ttyl!
<cyphermox> haha, have fun
<cyphermox> all this is blocking indicators...
<cyphermox> suddently, drowning sorrows sounds like such a good idea
<chrisccoulson> cyphermox, rebuilding thunderbird won't fix it. it needs source changes, even if it's just bumping the library version (but i suspect it needs lots more than that)
<cyphermox> needs to be fixed anyway
<cyphermox> are you planning to do it or should I allocate some time that I look at it?
<cyphermox> perhaps I'll start with figuring out anything re. libav first though
<csslayer> attente: ping, aron told me something about fcitx and unity-greeter.. but I've no idea what unity-greeter is
<attente> csslayer, hi, unity-greeter is where the user logs into their session
<csslayer> attente: so why do you mention this? is there any special requirements for unity-greeter?
<attente> csslayer, if we were to hypothetically switch to fcitx, and use fcitx for keyboard layouts too, then we'd need some way to get fcitx running at the login screen
<attente> csslayer, alternatively we need a way to query any user's fcitx input methods at the login screen
<csslayer> emm.. can you give me a usecase that why people need to change layout on login screen?..
<attente> csslayer, for example, if there are more than one user on a machine, and each user is using a different keyboard layout to type their password
<attente> maybe one person is using the us layout to type their password, another is using azerty, another is using ru layout
<csslayer> if so, is user allowed to choose whatever layout supported by system in the login screen?
<attente> csslayer, it should be possible since there can be multiple users with different keyboard layouts
<csslayer> I mean, is it must be pre-configured? or it's limited to what user already chose
<attente> csslayer, it should only have the layouts that the users have chosen
<csslayer> IMHO, running an input method service on login screen is introducing potential security problem. (this is proven by MS(tm)), so I think have some limited information of layout is better.
<attente> csslayer, ok. how are the user's list of input methods stored in fcitx?
<csslayer> though, I could also try to implement a restricted mode for fcitx, but even in that case, there needs a way to pass the information of layout..
<csslayer> currently a file on the disk
<csslayer> how does the unity-greeter get the wallpaper information?
<attente> csslayer, it's obtained through accountsservice
<attente> if we can get fcitx to start using accountsservice for storing the user's input methods list, then the problem would go away
<csslayer> ok, then I think we can implement a plugin for fcitx and populate the input method information to accountservice
<attente> ah, ok :)
<attente> csslayer, one other thing i wanted to ask you about
<attente> in fcitx, the input trigger is implemented how?
<csslayer> key event passed to fcitx then triggered.
<csslayer> not keygrab on X like ibus
<attente> sorry, i'm not very familiar with this topic, but what's the difference exactly? i thought doing a passive key grab entailed handling key events as well
<attente> i guess specifically how does fcitx get the event without doing the key grab on the root window?
<csslayer> fcitx doesn't grab any key, it is the application forward the key event to fcitx
<attente> how does the application know it should forward the key event to fcitx?
<csslayer> it's application's own logic, like, if you're using gtk/qt, then textbox implementation already handles this.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-23
<happyaron> attente: I don't think ibus is activated at login screen, except for setting xkb. am I correct?
<attente> happyaron, yes. it's actually just g-s-d changing the xkb groups right now
<happyaron> ok, great
<attente> happyaron, i'm still not sure if it's a good idea to do the switch to fcitx this cycle given that it's an LTS and we don't really know how the non-IM people will take it
<happyaron> attente: me neither, but I do doubt how many setups would have multiple keyboard layouts at the same time. :)
<attente> happyaron, yeah, i agree that they are probably far and few...
<happyaron> I think non-IM people would prefer to be able to change layout in g-c-c, rather than in a separate tool. but all my worries are at the interaction level, not technical parts.
<happyaron> so we may end up to do some homework about the configuration UI.
<happyaron> csslayer: what do you think? Fcitx for non-IM user, when they have the need of switching among layouts?
<csslayer> at least I think there's only one layout needed for one user :| ..
<csslayer> attente: if it's just xkb layouts, and g-s-d is doing that, I guess it would be simpler if fcitx just pushes layout info to account service and still let g-s-d do that
<attente> csslayer, in the user's session though, if they're only using keyboard layouts, should x be handling that? or would we have fcitx do that as well?
<csslayer> attente: well.. my idea is always let to imf handle all layout, but from the feedback there are still some cases doesn't get covered very well.
<csslayer> attente: if people only mainly one layout, and use another layout in order to just type some other languages (just like use another im) -> I think fcitx can do this well right now
<csslayer> if people change the main layout permentantly frequently (one tells me that he use jp at home and fr at work), it's not convenient with fcitx
<csslayer> so I'd also like to change the way that how fcitx handles layout to cover more cases.. I posted the idea on fcitx's maillist but it's not implemented yet
<attente> csslayer, sorry, i don't quite understand, what's the difference between those two scenarios?
<attente> csslayer, one thing that irked me a bit was that there are two different triggers, one to enable fcitx and another to cycle IMs in fcitx
<csslayer> attente: in the first case, say your native language is English, but you need to talk with some French colleague, thus you only use french layout when needed. Like, you only use french in one im window but always use English in other window.
<attente> csslayer, ah, understood
<csslayer> attente: in the second case, he uses different layout because he use different physical keyboard which is printed with different key, thus when he work, even if he types japanese, he still use the fr layout (at some level mozc is compatible with fr)
<csslayer> when he get back to home, he connect a different keyboard (say he uses laptop keyboard at home and another usb keyboard at work), and that's why he changes the layout.
<csslayer> attente: actually I really hate the cycle key.. it's there because it's always there.
<attente> csslayer, is that second case common? it sounds like it'd be pretty uncommon
<attente> csslayer, i guess the cycle key is useful if you're using more than one IM, no?
<csslayer> attente: I don't really know, some raises this workflow on fcitx mail list. but even the intention is not that, I can guess one changes layout permentantly for different environment.
<csslayer> attente: actually.. fcitx has a better way to choose im (though it's not enabled by default), cycle is too confusing to me. You can use a hotkey to list all im and choose it with number.
<csslayer> I don't know who raises this cycle idea first.. but it will make your operation depends on some local state, say, if you have three im, you will never know what's the next one after press cycle if you switch between windows frequently.
<attente> while that sounds convenient, we may get complaints from users who are used to switching between us and ru using ctrl+shift, or ctrl+ctrl, or any other modifier-only key bindings
 * happyaron which is working on my Debian stable setup for fcitx. just fyi
<csslayer> attente: yes, I also aware of that.
<attente> csslayer, the cycling is a legacy of how x11 implemented the group switching itself i guess
<attente> happyaron, no question, you definitely sold me on fcitx over ibus at the uds session :)
<happyaron> :)
<attente> two major concerns that are lingering in my mind are: 1. will it make the russian/greek/arab users happy, and 2. stability for the LTS
<csslayer> attente: if we want to migrate now, a not too aggressive way is to totally disable the fcitx layout feature. then fcitx will knows nothing about the layout and will just handle im
<attente> csslayer, ok, so we do that and revert the gnome-ibus integration under unity
<csslayer> attente: or.. I will work on this idea for some more time, which IMHO can make everyone happy: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fcitx-dev/dRqoihxxLPo
<csslayer> attente: well.. the previous way is just like revert the integration and uses ibus 1.4 (if we just comparing the workflow instead of features)
<attente> csslayer, so it would be fcitx under unity, ibus under gnome-shell?
<happyaron> what do you mean by this?
<csslayer> attente: what do you mean by revert integration actually?.. (revert only unity part? or also add --disable-ibus in gnome package?)
<attente> happyaron, csslayer, reverting back to before g-s-d and g-c-c switched to using "input sources" in the region panel
<attente> back to when keyboard layouts were purely handled in X
<attente> so the user could configure at most 4 at a time
<happyaron> attente: I tsee. then I believe under gnome-shell it does not matter which is used by the user.
<happyaron> and even fcitx would have a little better experience if they have the kimpanel GS plugin installed.
<happyaron> we can optionally package it and add it to Recommends of gnome-shell.
<attente> happyaron, except gnome integrates ibus in g-s-d and g-c-c
<attente> it adds another minor issue of how does im-config work at that point if it then depends on what shell is logged into
<happyaron> attente: why?
<csslayer> attente: ah, ok, which version of gnome you're using right now? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707652 .. well there're some hardcoded environment variable (It's even unrelated if integration is enabled or not..)
<ubot2> Gnome bug 707652 in keyboard "Don't start and set ibus related environment if GTK_IM_MODULE is set." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<attente> csslayer, we're on g-s-d 3.8.6 and g-c-c 3.6.3 right now
<csslayer> attente: actually they extract some code from g-s-d.. and put them in the script that starts g-s-d.. but didn't do the same check as in old c code..
<attente> happyaron, if i do 'im-config -n fcitx' under unity, then log into gnome-shell, which framework is used?
<happyaron> attente: fcitx
<attente> so if fcitx is default in 14.04 under unity
<attente> and the user prefers gnome-shell
<csslayer> attente: so I mean it might breaks other imf for qt and xim program if ibus is installed.
<happyaron> attente:  it's not needed to switch the imf when user log into gnome-shell, but derivative/flavors may keep ibus as default if they use gnome-shell.
<csslayer> attente: you might want to take a look of my patch in that report .. you hit some problem in testing :/ just want to mention this.
<happyaron> attente: if the user really wants to use ibus, he/she can change it using language-selector or im-config. there wouldn't be significant problem using fcitx if we disables the ibus integration in gnome.
<happyaron> as said just now, the experience can be slightly better than ibus without the integration.
<attente> happyaron, but if a user logs into gnome-shell and selects his input sources throught the g-c-c region panel, it won't work because fcitx is the configured framework, no?
<happyaron> attente: sure it won't work, but when ibus integration is disabled user won't be able to see that much configuration in g-c-c?
<attente> happyaron, ok, i guess i should explain my thought process
<happyaron> appreciated, :)
<attente> my thoughts were we would revert back only in the unity fork of g-s-d and g-c-c
<attente> not on the gnome-side
<attente> so the gnome-side would still keep its region panel more or less intact as it was intended by upstream, as well as the input sources behaviour
<attente> but because im-config operates at an environment level, this is more or less not possible any more
<attente> because as soon as we set fcitx as the default, that panel no longer works in gnome-shell
<happyaron> do you think sending a notification is ok, telling the user they would need to switch to ibus to get that working?
<attente> happyaron, that might not be the only problem, because the user might also switch between the two shells every so often
<happyaron> attente: most of them won't be happy to change imf everytime between the two shells. Once a user is faimiliar with an imf, he won't want to change it just for a reginonal tab stuff.
<attente> yep, i agree
<happyaron> what I'm thinking about is pushing a notification on user's first login to gnome-shell, just like what ibus did for the Super+Space change.
<attente> i'm not sure if notifying the user that they need to switch to ibus and log out and log back in is an ideal solution in the first case
<happyaron> maybe at the first time of accessing the region panel?
<happyaron> show some characters at the panel when the IMF isn't ibus, describing the situation.
<attente> yeah, i guess that's better than nothing
<attente> yeah, actually that might work well
<attente> so at that point, if they're using ibus under gnome-shell and switch back to unity
<attente> fcitx is no longer working since ibus is im-config'd
<happyaron> we can give a similar text in unity's g-c-c or somewhere.
<attente> well, assuming they don't start trying to use fcitx immediately thinking it was already configured the last time they logged into unity :P
<happyaron> push a notification on next login when imf is changed?
<attente> and under unity, if we give that message, we're basically saying, don't use ibus under unity
<attente> happyaron, so they log in, and then they get a notification saying to log out and log in again?
<happyaron> no, just tell them current imf is ibus, which "you" just made the change.
<happyaron> and I suggest that not very much people will be confused, they will stick to either fcitx or ibus on both shells, and ignore the notification thinking it's information only.
<attente> happyaron, i do hope it's not that confusing for most users
<attente> and i hope it's only a minor annoyance
<happyaron> to be honest, I doubt how many people would switch to ibus under GNOME if fcitx is working well.
<happyaron> and if he/she really likes ibus, then he/shell would want use ibus under unity as well.
<happyaron> for those who don't care that much about imf, they are unlikely to change the default when it's working.
<coderguy22296> fist of all, what is ibus?
<attente> coderguy22296, ibus is an input method framework for typing chinese, japanese, korean, etc characters
<attente> happyaron, you're probably right, but if i knew nothing about this situation, i might try messing around with the region panel at some point, and wonder why i can't type chinese
<happyaron> attente: that would need some work on writing a good text we will show on the region panel, telling what's going on using simple words.
<coderguy22296> that sounds good
<coderguy22296> srry about that^ , just testing irc on a diff device
<coderguy22296> here is my issue, do you think it could be a quick fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1253885
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1253885 in xorg (Ubuntu) "I noticed a 1-2 pixel shift to the right in the desktop's display area" [Undecided,New]
<coder_guy22296> hey guys
<happyaron> attente: is it good time to make a decision?
<attente> happyaron, i think you're right
<attente> i guess i'm just overthinking things
<happyaron> :)
<attente> plus, it's 1 am where i am too :P
<happyaron> attente: go to bed and have a nice weekend (for the remaining time)!
<happyaron> let's create a detailed plan next Monday.
<attente> happyaron, yep, let's do that
<attente> thanks :)
<happyaron> :)
<coder_guy22296> could one of you guys look at this bug that ive found?
<Laney> chrisccoulson: can you switch the depends on ttf-wqy-zenhei and ttf-arphic-ukai to fonts-... in your next firefox(-testsuite) upload please?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-24
<xclaesse> Hum recordmydesktop creates buggy video
<xclaesse> it has lots of glitches
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-17
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: sehr gut. Hatte ein entspanntes Wochendende. Und dir?
<pitti> larsu: wir auch, sehr gut
<larsu> schÃ¶n :)
<mlankhor1t> morning
<didrocks> morning
<duflu> Morning...
<duflu> You know what would be helpful to users? If they didn't have to know the trick to tick the box that mostly talks about MP3 support in order to get a Broadcom wireless driver installed (during Ubuntu installation)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> duflu, hey, it wouldn't be practical to list all the things included under that option, but we could perhaps improve the description ... I guess suggestions in bug reports are welcome ;-)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<duflu> seb128: Yeah I know. Was actually wondering if anyone had plans already
<seb128> I don't think so
<duflu> seb128: What's the installer project name?
<seb128> duflu, ubiquity
<duflu> seb128: Thanks
<seb128> yw!
<darkxst> seb128, pitti, didrocks hey
<seb128> hey
<duflu> Hmm, last I did hacking in the realm of broadcom wireless they were putting their latest drivers in-kernel. Or is that only for newer chips?
<didrocks> hey darkxst
<darkxst> seb128, I attacked nautilus, if you want to upload it to -desktop ppa, bug 1393252
<ubot5> bug 1393252 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus 3.14 update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393252
<pitti> bonojur didrocks et seb128, hey darkxst
<didrocks> morning pitti
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> darkxst, k, I'm adding to my review list
<seb128> was there anything tricky/special.?
<seb128> or just the headerbar?
<seb128> pitti, wie gehts? had a good w.e?
<pitti> seb128: yeah, very relaxing; we went to the cinema, badminton, sauna, and had some nice long walk yesterday
<pitti> seb128: comment Ã©tait ton w.e. ?
<seb128> c'Ã©tait bien ! though took it easy, trying to get over the cold I have since wednesday, already feeling much better so that's good, only the "annoyances" remaining
<seb128> went to buy for some sport shoes on saturday (on a shop that film your steps and look at the feet position/defaults and recommend adapted shoes), dinner with friends in the evening and swimming on sunday, otherwise mostly spent time indoor relaxing
<seb128> it rained most of the w.e
<duflu> seb128: Heh, yeah the bug exists... has done for 3 years :)
<seb128> duflu, no action on it/waiting on design input  I guess?
<duflu> seb128: No design was involved, but also waiting on some developer keen enough to propose a fix (and translations?)
<duflu> Design _was_ involved.
<seb128> translations are not an issue if we change it in vivid
<darkxst> seb128, menu patch was the worst, mostly otherwise ok
<seb128> k
<desrt> hi hi eurotypes
<didrocks> hey desrt, in Europe again?
<desrt> nope.  vegas.
<didrocks> quite late then
<desrt> only midnight.5
<desrt> just got back to hotel room
<didrocks> which kind of sprint are you at?
<desrt> uh.... family sprint?
<didrocks> ah, vegas family sprint ;)
<seb128> hey desrt, having fun there? ;-)
<Laney> hey hey
<pitti> hey desrt
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? good w.e?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> hey pitti seb128 didrocks
<Laney> very good weekend, lots of family visits!
<Laney> (= eating out)
<Laney> hope you all did too ;-)
<seb128> yeah, w.e was good ;-)
<czajkowski> seb128: didrocks any idea where to best promote an event in Paris aimed at Mobile Dev? Free workshop
<seb128> czajkowski, hey, no idea, sorry
<didrocks> czajkowski: not really sure either, if it's free software, there is linuxfr.org
<didrocks> and you can use ubuntu-party.org/ubuntu-fr (I can help for that one) if it's related to ubuntu of course :)
<czajkowski> not for Ubuntu this time :) it's android atm
<czajkowski> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/couchbase-mobile-developer-workshop-paris-tickets-14320275329
<czajkowski> thanks for the tips folks
<didrocks> yeah, you can try linuxfr.org I guess
<czajkowski> cheers
<mlankhor1t> noon
<mdeslaur> seb128: mind if I split the xchat-indicator package into xchat-gnome-indicator and xchat-indicator?
<mdeslaur> I can't maintain compatibility for both gtk2 and gtk3 in the same code
<mdeslaur> seb128: actually, scratch that, I can probably do it in the same package
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, ok, your call
<mdeslaur> well, if you don't mind, it's a lot easier to split it
<seb128> mdeslaur, oh btw, did you notice that xchat-gnome lost translations, did you change the domain? or is that a code bug? (the translations are still installed from langpacks/on disk)
<seb128> mdeslaur, do whatever is easier
<mdeslaur> seb128: hrm, good question, I'll take a look
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks, I can also have a look if you want, wanted to check if it's known first though
<mdeslaur> seb128: oh, if you could check, that would be great
<seb128> mdeslaur, ok, let it to me then ;-)
<seb128> larsu, hey, what's the status of the new gtk? I know you got sidetracked working on other things, but back to gtk this week? do you need help with the update?
<tkamppeter> Does someone know about the Python3 support of pyqt4? There is a python-qt4-dbus but no python3-qt4-dbus for example.
<seb128> tkamppeter, Mirv might know, or maybe ask on #ubuntu-devel rather
<tkamppeter> Mirv, ^^
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks, I have also posted on ubuntu-devel now.
<tedg`> larsu, Looking at the service log here, should this be a cups bug? bug 1393469
<ubot5> bug 1393469 in indicator-printers (Ubuntu) "indicator-printers does not show up when printing" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393469
 * didrocks waves goodbye
<Steve_Jobs> anyone have any issues with compiz on MATE?
<Steve_Jobs> I can't launch ccsm
<Steve_Jobs> getting connection refused when launching ccsm
<Steve_Jobs> failed to connect to socket
<ogra_> did you install compiz and told mate to use it (is that even possible) ?
<ogra_> it definitely doesnt use it by default
<robert_ancell> RAOF, did you get your Inbox invite?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I did indeed.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-18
<pitti> Good morning
<Mirv> tkamppeter: I don't know, although I think Qt 4 itself will be end of support next year
<Mirv> and it will be also dropped from jessie + 1
<larsu> tedg: according to that warning it looks like cups is not running
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning
<larsu> hi didrocks!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey larsu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<mlankhorst> salut!
<mlankhorst> ca va?
<didrocks> hi mlankhorst, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> I exhausted my french quotum for today
<mlankhorst> but it goes well
<seb128> nice
<seb128> how is the work on xmir going? ;-)
 * pitti waves to the desktop crowd -- finally some life here!
<seb128> lut pitti
<seb128> pitti, depuis quand est-ce que tu es rÃ©veillÃ© ?
<pitti> seb128: depuis 5:30 aujourd'hui
<seb128> pitti, c'est tÃ´t !
<pitti> c'est le temps normal Ã  nouveau, apres les examinations d'Annett :)
<didrocks> morning pitti
<seb128> pitti, c'est dur de se lever aussi tÃ´t, surtout en hiver quand il fait nuit et froid!
<pitti> seb128: en effet :/ mais quand je me sense Ã©veillÃ© je me leve avec ma femme
<seb128> pitti, je comprends, dit Ã  Annett de se lever plus tard !
<pitti> seb128: je luit dis Ã§a tous les jours :)
<pitti> "lui"
<tkamppeter> Mirv, thank you very much, I already got answers for my questions yesterday onb #ubvuntu-devel.
<mlankhorst> seb128: steadily, I have a working prototype that uses mir sw rendering. Glamor is going to be a bit of a pain, as will DRI2 accel be. :P
<mlankhorst> won't be as featureful as xorg-mir, because mir itself is lacking some features..
<didrocks> seb128: did you feel that thunderbird is less responsive for you? I keep having it freezing multiple times a day
<didrocks> or clicking on messages doesn't display content, have to go to other folder to force a refreshâ¦
<mlankhorst> dri2 accel might end up being faster because Xorg-mir requires a copy, I can override the dri2 module in XMir to prevent copying when compositing is active. :x
<seb128> didrocks, no issue here, I run it all day with the 3 imap accounts, including the canonical one
<didrocks> weirdâ¦
<larsu> didrocks: maybe these are the starting signs of its end? It is hardly maintained these days, is it?
<didrocks> larsu: I don't know if it's thunderbird itself or a consequence of a vivid change TBH
<didrocks> larsu: it doesn't seem we are using cpu cgroups share in systemd for instance, so I can't blame that one
<darkxst> hey seb128 didrocks pitti
<didrocks> morning darkxst
<didrocks> or rather evening :)
<darkxst> didrocks, yeh that is more accurate!
<duflu> mlankhorst: Windowed or fullscreen? In the latter the Mir server will at least use bypass (no compositing required)
<darkxst> seb128, did you see bug 1393067?
<ubot5> bug 1393067 in totem (Ubuntu) "totem 3.14" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393067
<duflu> ... but only if you keep the DRI drivers active ("hardware" buffer instead of software)
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> no, didn't
<darkxst> totem has a completely new UI which is very GNOME3
<seb128> right
<seb128> which is why we didn't update it
<mlankhorst> duflu: supporting both, but the copy is done in Xorg :P
<seb128> or one of the reasons
<duflu> mlankhorst: I always thought glamour sounded like a good option. What's stopping that?
<duflu> Doesn't that just make the X server a GL client?
<darkxst> seb128, so would it be reasonable to fork the packaging for that? have say a totem3 package that replace old totem packages?
<mlankhorst> yes :P
<mlankhorst> duflu: rootless is going to be a bit harder, but ought to work
<seb128> darkxst, I guess so
<seb128> darkxst, btw commented on it, the screenshot you posted seems fine (assuming it's the start screen/recently used), not sure what the player looks like ... do you have that version in a ppa or something?
<darkxst> seb128, 3.12 is on gnome3 and 3.14 in gnome3-staging
<seb128> darkxst, let me try that
<seb128> is there a big difference between those in UI?
<darkxst> seb128, I think the UI change was mostly in 3.12
<seb128> cool, I'm looking over the UI for a minute and I've nfc how to play a video
<seb128> the grid is empty
<seb128> there is no menu item "open"
<seb128> the headerbar icons have no tooltips to indicate what they do
<seb128> and there is no control in the UI
<seb128> come on GNOME designers
 * seb128 closes totem and goes to click in nautilus
<larsu> :(
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> FJKong, happyaron  - if you can make the weekly meeting today please email me a quick status report
<FJKong> willcooke: I will be on meeting tonight
<willcooke> thx FJKong
<seb128> darkxst, I would be fine with the new totem if it have a classic menubar still and decorations+headerbar as a toolbar
<seb128> have->has
<seb128> hey willcooke FJKong
<FJKong> seb128: hey seb
<willcooke> gmornin seb128 - how goes?  Anything catch on fire yesterday?
<seb128> willcooke, things are good, no fire no
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> Had a good meeting with $oem
<seb128> willcooke, btw I'm unsure your strategy of "must assign all workitems" is the right one
<seb128> though I can understand the tentation of doing that
<willcooke> seb128, ok - if you are confident that they will get attention, I'll happily remove the names - but ya know - just not sure how much managing that list needs, so playing it safe
<seb128> willcooke, I usually recommend not doing that on purpose, the same way that I think you should assign a bug to somebody who doesn't plan to work on it in a reasonable timeframe
<seb128> *shouldn't*
<willcooke> seb128, ok, happy with that - but I will keep asking you how they are progressing ;)  (s/you/$dev)
<seb128> willcooke, the issue by doing that is that you give the impression that somebody is on the item and it locks contributors out of claiming it/helping
<seb128> which works against us
<seb128> we usually say "if it's unassigned, feel free to grab it if you want to help"
<seb128> that can't happen if you assign everything
<seb128> willcooke, cool ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, sorry for being nitpicking
<willcooke> seb128, no worries - I agree with your reasoning.
<seb128> but yeah, we should make sure we are under trend
<willcooke> I'll take some convincing that people won't say "Oh, I didn't know I was supposed to care about $gnome_app because my name wasnt against it" :)
<seb128> which means that people go through their assigned w.i and grabs new ones as they go
<seb128> hehe
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> yeah, that's fair enough
<willcooke> Let's go with your plan, it's solid
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> and then if things look like they aren't moving in the right direction by, say, end of Jan, we can reasses
<willcooke> attente_, read up a few mins from here ^^^^^^
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, we are still sort of blocked on getting mir and the gtk backend to do some of the initial lifting I think
<seb128> we don't want to have 5 people hitting the same basic bugs and spending efforts on the same things
<seb128> we need somebody to more ahead enough that gtk-demo or something runs fine
<willcooke> seb128, yes, that is very true.  But we know Mir are working on unblocking some of that stuff right now, so when it lands in Mir we need to be ready to pounce on it in Gtk backend, and then have it flow through to the apps
<seb128> then we can look at apps and specific issues
<seb128> right
<willcooke> In my mind, all of that Gtk apps work is "get ready to work on it in some months"
<willcooke> rather than "do it now"
<willcooke> perhaps I should have been much clearer about that
<willcooke> e.g.
<willcooke> actually, no eg :)
<willcooke> My theory with assigning those apps was
<willcooke> As soon as it's ready upstream we can land a whole load of G apps in to desktop next - taadaa!
<willcooke> So between now and then it's business as usual
<willcooke> and then in, say, Jan we can roll with the Gtk stuff - have it all assigned, everyone knows who is doing what, etc
<willcooke> but perhaps we need to worry about that nearer the time
<willcooke> rather than try and plan for the unknown
<willcooke> (can't hurt to think about it a bit though)
<seb128> yeah, that makes sense
<seb128> well, we can't test a lot until we get the basis in place
<seb128> so people are going to wait anyway
<willcooke> ack
<darkxst> seb128, ok, I will look into reverting classic menu
<seb128> darkxst, thanks!
<willcooke> seb128, I'd like to see something new and interesting in the Desktop Next image before EOY - I'm still hopeful that it will be Chromium.
<seb128> that would be nice
<willcooke> I'll speak to qengo
<willcooke> oh  - that reminds me
<willcooke> chrisccoulson, hey, sorry I didnt get that VM built yet - hoping to get it done today
<happyaron> willcooke: just mailed you, :)
<willcooke> happyaron, excellent, thanks man.  Have a good evening :)
 * didrocks goes for a run before next rain drop
<didrocks> basic rules respected: got 80% of the rain drops in the last 20% of the exercising time
<pitti> didrocks: heh, better than getting all soaked right at the beginning -- half of showering done already :)
<didrocks> heh, indeed :)
<willcooke> woot!  I have successfully created a server instance in our cloud \o/
<willcooke> now for some lunch
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: So you are looking like this right now? http://wordofgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/mario-kart-final-lap-costume-7lkoqdvf.jpg
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> I AM L33T.  GIVE ME WAREZ
<ogra_> !
<xnox> Laney: i ponder why am i a gdebi developer....
<Laney> You collect(ed) team memberships :P
 * Laney just typed apt-get install gnome-twerk-tool
<Laney> sexy
<seb128> lol
<mlankhorst> willcooke: I have glamor'd XMir sort of working, that will be my status report for the past week. :P
<willcooke> mlankhorst, ack
<willcooke> mlankhorst, and nice job :) Thanks
<mlankhorst> some issue pops up when I force XMir to reload and open a new window, but I'm 90% sure I've hit the same issue before when debugging nested mir. Just have to figure out why..
<mlankhorst> if i comment out a destructor it works, so probably something lifetime related
<pitti> meh, that Pango test regression is fairly stable, i. e. 1.36.8 broke its tests
<Laney> but it got into the release pocket
<pitti> yeah, apparently it got overridden or so
<Laney> I hope nobody's overriding real failures
<Laney> pitti: fixed, missing test-dep
<pitti> Laney: oh, wow -- a missing test dep causes strings to be split differently?!
<Laney> it's a font :P
<pitti> aah
<pitti> Laney: thanks! I suppose this affects Debian's package, too?
<Laney> Yeah, I'll upload it to unstable
<chrisccoulson> lol (@ gnome-twerk-tool)
<cyphermox_> didrocks: in case you haven't noticed; I uploaded bluez to the bluez5 transition PPA yesterday. I've tested it a bit, but we'll need more updates (pulse, gnome-bluetooth, etc.) before we can do lots more testing. I only had my headset with me, and without the bits that know of the new API, it's not as easy to verify that it works ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox_: oh excellent! did you ping diwic as well?
<seb128> oh, it's meeting time!
<willcooke> just getting the roll call together
<Laney> oh bum
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 18 15:32:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic:
<willcooke> #chair willcooke
<meetingology> Current chairs: willcooke
<willcooke> Roll call: attente_, didrocks, fjkong, laney, larsu, mlankhorst, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, tkamppeter(maybe),
<seb128> "roll call"?
 * seb128 google
<willcooke> who is here
<seb128> gotcha
<seb128> o/
<larsu> \o
<qengho> hey hey
<didrocks> hey
<FJKong> hey
<willcooke> attente_ might not be here right now, so shall we start with didrocks
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> hey, /me opens his notes, one sec
 * Sweet5hark does a barrel roll for roll call
<didrocks> Ubuntu Developer Tools Center:
<didrocks>  * UOS session + blueprint management
<didrocks>  * Contacted both appmenu + font fixes contributors. Only got some feedback from the latter and we won't turn it on by default as it created issues in the past
<didrocks>  * Preparing next release and minor fixes
<didrocks> Bluez 5: UOS session + blueprint management
<didrocks> Some systemd-transition fixes:
<didrocks>  * ifup* doesn't fail if networking is disabled
<didrocks>  * whoopsie won't start and won't be reenable after package upgrade if disabled
<didrocks>  * pending reviews in debian for 2 patches so that our upstart jobs, once they got a systemd one, aren't started unconditionally as they don't have an init script (invoke-rc.d and deb-systemd-invoke)
<didrocks>  * inspecting and starting upstream discussion on (/usr)/lib vs /etc for default service enablement
<didrocks>  * A bunch of documentation reading
<didrocks> EOF
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> * Spend some time find way to convert Chinese character to unicode, there are some opensource projects but I should write code
<FJKong> to do this because these projects are not suit for my request
<FJKong> * follow bug 1389978, fixed already
<ubot5> bug 1389978 in Ubuntu Kylin "Unable to find Open layouts folder in Onboard Preferences." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389978
<FJKong> * Discuss and Plan for next release of sogou input method
<FJKong> * some feed back from users for sogou input method
<FJKong> EOF
<FJKong> .
<willcooke> FJKong, so you're going to have to write something from scratch for the pinyin search?
<FJKong> willcooke: yes
<FJKong> start from zero
<willcooke> darn
<willcooke> oh well
<willcooke> it'll be a handy library to have
<FJKong> I don't think it will too much work
<qengho> FJKong: ping me if you want reviewer.
<willcooke> thanks FJKong  and qengho
<FJKong> qengho: hey thanks
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> meo
<Laney> w
<Laney> Some of this might be for the previous week too, I got confused since we skipped :)
<Laney> â¢ Port most of the remaining gir1.2-vte-2.90 rdeps to 2.91 & all vte rdeps in main (ubiquity, remmina, aptdaemon, other things), all forwarded upstream, still one or two to go
<Laney> â freerdp transition for new remmina
<Laney> â¢ Package gstreamer 1.4.4
<Laney> â Test a split that touch guys want (ugly â ugly-amr), fwd to Debian, some discussions there
<Laney> â¢ Merge gnome-terminal 3.14, some fixes (working with larsu, thanks for help!) needed in vte, fwded upstream
<Laney> â¢ Merge empathy, gnome-disk-utility
<Laney> â¢ vUDS, release session: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
<Laney> â¢ poppler transition
<Laney> â¢ DMB: welcome mitya57 to core-dev, some discussions about lightweight PPU for DMs, some email applications, input-methods packageset-fu from happyaron
<Laney> â¢ just now: fixing pango1.0 autopkgtest failure
<Laney> â
<willcooke> excellent, thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: larsu
<willcooke> (hmm, sure it never did that before ^^^ )
<larsu> hey. Got distracted by lots of small random stuff this week
<larsu> like that gnome-terminal thing, some outstanding unity8 status icon things (I'm really annoyed at this point btw)
<seb128> what's the issue with the unity8 work?
<seb128> or what's the annoyance?
<larsu> actual work: fixing our theme. I've updated the todo pad (thanks seb128 for reminding me) to mark blockers and concentrate on those now
<larsu> as usual, our css is unwieldy so it takes a bit longer :/
<seb128> :-(
<larsu> seb128: it was supposed to be a s/StatusIcon/Icon, but it simply doesn't get merged for stupid reasons
<larsu> like: too long to review has conflicts, bzr messing up a resolve, new StatusIcon things get added, etc
<larsu> it's not taking much time, it's simply annoying
<seb128> k
<seb128> let me know if I can help
<seb128> or nudge those guys or something
<larsu> thanks! But should be fine
 * larsu <- end
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: mlankhorst
<willcooke> mlankhorst> willcooke: I have glamor'd XMir sort of working, that will be my status report for the past week
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> qengho, how goes?
<qengho> * a few UOS meetings and Cr update and such.
<qengho> * ugh: broken X. Using "safe mode" for last two weeks.
<qengho> * in-progress: Cr GPU blacklist hell. Part of testing new Flash player.
<qengho> * in-progress: Google-search accounting for Cr doesn't make sense.
<qengho> * to-do: eventually get back to implementing Mir.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> (4 days week, 11 nov was a VAC in France)
<seb128> â¢ UOS, participated in some sessions (unity8 desktop testing, some phone apps roadmap ones), listened to some other ones
<seb128> â¢ debugged/fixed translations not working with the new xchat-gnome
<seb128> â¢ SRUed some desktop fixes (libappindicator)
<seb128> â¢ debian merges and syncs
<seb128> â¢ looked at some translations issues on the current touch/rtm image (fb posting UI, "enable locatiion data" dash option not translatable)
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-system-settings for touch
<seb128> â some code reviews
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ usual share of bugs triaging and desktop discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - testbuild 4.3.3/vivid, should have told seb128 about it
<Sweet5hark> #action seb128 upload packages from http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/
<Sweet5hark> - updated 4.3.4~rc1/utopic in ppa
<Sweet5hark> -- added vendor patch for .desktop file issue again -- bug 1386170
<Sweet5hark> - updated 4.2.7/trusty build in ppa with additional upsteam patches
<meetingology> ACTION: seb128 upload packages from http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/
<Sweet5hark> -- still waiting for feeback on bug 1389858
<Sweet5hark> - Toulouse Hackfest (btw uploading three LibreOffice source packages from a hotel wifi -- no fun)
<Sweet5hark> - bits and pieces: got a personal mention at the UOS!
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<ubot5> bug 1386170 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice startup center shorcut broken" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386170
<ubot5> bug 1389858 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice calc 4.2.7-0ubuntu1 not updating references after sort" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389858
<willcooke> fancy :)
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - hplip: Got 3.14.10 beta from HP to test its compatibility with
<willcooke> Python3. Made a Debian/Ubuntu package which builds it so that it uses
<willcooke> Python3 exclusively. Works as before, so the porting of HPLIP to Python
<willcooke> 3 was successful.
<willcooke> - OpenPrinting web server: Investigated problems with automatic driver
<willcooke> download which occured recently. Performance of the server is OK now.
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. fcitx libraries split
<willcooke> 2. fcitx-qt5 libraries split
<willcooke> 3. youker-assistant update
<willcooke> 4. ubuntukylin-sso-client update
<willcooke> 5. duplicate apt sources.list issue for Ubuntu Kylin
<willcooke> 6. sogoupinyin 1.2 plan
<willcooke> 7. plan discussion of Chinese version of ubuntu.com
<willcooke> 8. Ubuntu Kylin redistribution channel in China related discussion with ISV.
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Almost completed the merging of Ubuntu and Debian pulseaudio packaging. Debian is based on Pulse 5, but we will likely move to pulse 6 when it is out and when we have the bluez stuff updated.
<willcooke> * Worked on package merges/syncs, and some sponsoring.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> Worked on:
<willcooke> - Released 1.13.0, 1.12.2, 1.10.4, 1.2.9
<willcooke> - Continuing to get LightDM 1.10.3 SRU complete
<willcooke> - Updated GTK+ Mir patch with changes from GNOME git
<willcooke> - Bug triage, fixing, merge reviews
<willcooke> Currently working on:
<willcooke> - FIxing Unity Greeter not always responding to clicks on usernames
<willcooke> (bug 1374778)
<ubot5> bug 1374778 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu Vivid) "Can't click at every item with greeter-show-manual-login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374778
<willcooke> - LightDM improvements
<willcooke> - TPM key support - awaiting handover information
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> Achievement unlocked: Be a track lead
<Laney> Was it everything you hoped for and more?
<willcooke> Spent yesterday out of the office in a meeting.  Was good.
<willcooke> Laney, so much more.
<willcooke> Currently doing battle with our cloud to try and make it let chrisccoulson log in
<willcooke> thats about it
<willcooke> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu | Desktop weekly meeting 2014-11-18 | Current topic: Any other business
<willcooke> not much else I don't think
<willcooke> any one got anything?
<seb128> (where are those actions item coming from, special syntax?)
<Laney> do you want everyone to mail you about carry over days or not bothered?
 * seb128 wonders why he got ACTIONs from Sweet5hark in the meeting coming out of the blue
<willcooke> yeah, meetingology picked them up from hash action
<seb128> Sweet5hark, please ping me directly when you have sponsoring request, not in the middle of meeting past through a bot
<Sweet5hark> seb128: k
<willcooke> ok, I've got to jump on to something else, so...
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 18 15:56:24 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-11-18-15.32.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, btw ping me again if you need something, I'm not even sure I understood the action items from the bot
<Sweet5hark> seb128: just forgot about it earlier and thought the meetology logs might profit from having something else than "The discussion about $foo started at $bar." Will not do it again, if there is objection.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, well, using meetology to record activity is fine, just make the activity happen before logging it ;-)
<seb128> like ping me before the meeting to ask me to review $things
<seb128> then you can add items about you asking me to do that
<seb128> :-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/libreoffice_4.3.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes and http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/libreoffice-l10n_4.3.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes need to be uploaded to vivid. They have already been uploaded to utopic before.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ok, thanks ... did you ping about that before and I forgot about it, or...?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: nope, I didnt -- as it says in the log: "testbuild 4.3.3/vivid, should have told seb128 about it". So no blame at all from my side, I just forgot about telling you and just realized when wrilting the notes
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ok, no worry, all clear now ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: sorry, didnt want to cause confusion. :)
<seb128> no worry!
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, seb128, hi doesnt sound like a good idea to upload to the extact same libreoffice package version to vivid as they will conflict?
<seb128> ricotz, you can't upload the exact same version to 2 differents series, in what serie did those got uploaded?
<ricotz> that is what i am saying since 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu1 is in utopic/updates already
<ricotz> so vivid needs at least 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu2 i guess
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, it wouldn't be too bad to just push 4.3.4~rc1 to vivid?
<seb128> ricotz, Sweet5hark, we can pocket copy 4.3.3-0ubuntu1 from utopic to vivid, but yeah having a 0ubuntu2 and rebuilding with the vivid toolchain might make sense
<ricotz> seb128, pocket copy wouldn't work due the poppler transition
<seb128> ricotz, source copy would no?
<ricotz> seb128, the poppler include a soname bump and the old lib is already gone
<Laney> no, different binaries same version
<seb128> Laney, that works no?
<Laney> no
<Laney> there's only one pool in the archive
<seb128> I've seen launchpad pages with several binary lines
<seb128> like on for trusty and one for utopic
<Laney> If it didn't get a build in the earlier series then it can build in a later one
<seb128> but maybe that was just to add binaries in archs where it failed to build in previous serie
<seb128> k, makes sense
<seb128> Sweet5hark, ^ need to bump version then I guess
<Laney> happens for new arches, for example
<seb128> xnox, hey, do you plan to do your Debian merges? e.g gnome-keyring ;-)
<xnox> seb128: yes
<xnox> seb128: quickly - possibly not.
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> xnox, thanks
<seb128> no hurry ;-)
<xnox> seb128: also gnome-keyring needs fixing in it's jobs....
<seb128> yeah...
<ogra_> argh
<ogra_> unity-panel-service seems to be in some weird crash loop for me
<ogra_> my desktop is all jumpy
<ogra_> wow, now it stopped ... that went on for like 30min ...
<ogra_> utopic is one of the least stable releases for me
<seb128> ogra_, did you get a bt?
<ogra_> seb128, no, it just stopped
<seb128> ogra_, no apport report?
<ogra_> seb128, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/2e246328-6f4a-11e4-b9ff-fa163e707a72
<chrisccoulson> seb128, is it fixed yet?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, oh, was it you who broke it ?
<seb128> ogra_, without debug symbols not easy to say, could be the messaging menu issue where a contact with a "|" send you a message
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, it was seb128
<seb128> like in xchat-gnome if you have it integrated with the messaging menu
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> :)
<ogra_> hmm,  i just deleted some spam that got through ... might indeed have hhad a pipe in the name or some such
 * ogra_ doesnt use xchat-gnome ... 
<seb128> ogra_, that's fixed in vivid and being srued to old releases
<ogra_> i'm waiting til mdeslaur has ported xchat
<ogra_> (to gtk3 ... and then to mir)
<mdeslaur> ogra_: haha, no.
<mdeslaur> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-19
<ojeq> @find ubuntu 13
<meetingology> ojeq: Error: "find" is not a valid command.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> morning
<larsu> morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<larsu> hi didrocks! Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<larsu> bien aussi, merci
 * larsu dives into css again today
<didrocks> good luck!
 * didrocks dives into why machine-id isn't recreated on boot by systemd
<larsu> it can't even do simple things like this? We're doomed. systemd will be the end of linux. And choice!
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> larsu: seriously, I wonder why it fails, / is mounted rw, the perms on /etc is fineâ¦
<didrocks> and if you run a simple wrapper later on, it will create the file without any issue
 * didrocks takes the open() parameters one after another to see why fd < 0
<larsu> weird. well, poettering is this ---> way
<larsu> (at least in my irc client :P)
<didrocks> larsu: I want to debug a little bit more beforehand
<didrocks> larsu: but if you can get him comment on pitti and I's thread on the upstream ML, that would be appreciated :)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et larsu !
<larsu> hi pitti!
<didrocks> bonjour pitti!
<larsu> didrocks: I can't do more than you, ping him :)
<larsu> didrocks: he usually comes online later, though
<didrocks> larsu: where is the German connection? :)
<pitti> simple deal -- send one beer, get one answer :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, having fun sprinkling lots of debug statements into this code and rebooting your VM?
<pitti> one of the few cases where there's *such* a good excuse for printf() debugging  :)
<didrocks> pitti: indeed, started yesterday night, so I know why it doesn't create it in the code, and the tmpfs behavior is expected
<larsu> printf debugging is the best, I don't know why people complain about it all the time
<didrocks> pitti: however, the all case is that open("/etc/machine-id", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_CLOEXEC|O_NOCTTY, 0444); return a negative fd
<didrocks> cause*
<pitti> didrocks: what's errno?
<didrocks> pitti: EROFS
<didrocks> I opened /proc/mounts just before, / is rw
<pitti> oh, heh
<didrocks>  /etc is populated with the right perms
<didrocks> and if you use the wrapper script later on, all is fine, the file is created as expected
<pitti> didrocks: but indeed that makes little sense -- it can apparently update the file if it exists as a 0-byte file
<didrocks> (after the boot proceeded)
<pitti> (hence our current workaround of truncating instead of rm)
<didrocks> pitti: right, there is a fallback
<didrocks> then, it tests if the file exists
<didrocks> if the file exists and is empty, -> mount tmpfs
<didrocks> and generate + write into it
<pitti> didrocks: tmpfs to where?
<didrocks> /etc/machine-id
<didrocks> (thanks to the flag writable = false; in the code)
<pitti> didrocks: oh, heh; but that's still wrong for our purpose indeed, as we actually want a permanent ID
<didrocks> pitti: I guess it's working actually, because, it's also writing it as the dbus-id
<didrocks> and then, for generating, it's picking up the dbus-id if it's coherent :)
<didrocks> so your workaround kind of works
<didrocks> but kind of ugly as well :p
<didrocks> pitti: in case you didn't notice, but most of the machine-id that are generated I guess is thanks to systemd postinst script which is using the wrapper (calling exactly the same code) to stamp /etc/machine-id the first time
<didrocks> still, I don't see why I'm getting this errno at boot, while all seems fine on the FSâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: yes, I know that one; but that won't get re-applied after image build and cleaning /etc
<didrocks> right
<pitti> didrocks: it's not apparmor that early during boot yet, right? (and we don't confine init anyway)
<pitti> didrocks: so does the remount rw happen before? maybe that just takes a bit of time?
<didrocks> I didn't look at that, I didn't see anything in dmesg when getting the errorno
<pitti> didrocks: did you try with putting an all-healing sleep(1) before the open()?
<didrocks> pitti: /proc/mounts should reflect the current state, right?
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, it should
<didrocks> ah, I did use printf, not went to the sleep-hack yet
<didrocks> will try that
<pitti> race condition debugger's best friend :)
<didrocks> heh ;)
 * pitti bows to your new systemd hacker
<didrocks> ahah, the "printfer + sleeper" hacker :p
<jjohansen> didrocks, pitti: yep we aren't applying apparmor policy that early or to init
<didrocks> yeah, dmesg was too quiet to blame apparmor :)
<didrocks> thanks for confirming
<pitti> yeah, that wouldn't make sense either
<pitti> for now my best suspicion is some kind of race between making r/w and open, although I would have assumed the remount to be synchronous
<didrocks> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9076436/
<didrocks> see the second part, "without machine-id"
<didrocks> (I stripped some parts)
<pitti> [    2.739054] systemd[1]: Started Remount Root and Kernel File Systems.
<pitti> didrocks: curious that this comes after the machine-id bits
<didrocks> yeah, I wondered about that one
<pitti> systemd[1]: rootfs / rootfs rw
<didrocks> but look at /proc/mounts reports before
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> but that comes before (but only 0.06 s)
<didrocks> this is just before the open()
<pitti> didrocks: oh wait, check line 47
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> ok, making sense
<didrocks> clearly didn't spot that one yesterday night
<didrocks> (when I added this debug)
<pitti> didrocks: keep that pastebin, makes an excellent artifact for reporting the bug
<didrocks> so, there is another mount on / on top of the current one, which is ro?
<pitti> didrocks: maybe / is still the initramfs rootfs, I'm not sure
<didrocks> oh, that earlyâ¦
<pitti> although that would be weird, AFAIK it's the initramfs itself which does the pivot_root
<didrocks> right
<pitti> systemd doesn't run in initramfs
<didrocks> and systemd isn't in the initramfs yet
<didrocks> (I heard there is some plan)
<seb128> oh, that channel is busy this morning
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> seb128: yeah, welcome to #ubuntu-init-system-hackers :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I think bug report time then? or should I try to look where this mounted / is coming from?
<pitti> didrocks: so the remounting is systemd-remount-fs.service, and thus happens out of process
<seb128> pitti, wie gehts?
<didrocks> ExecStart=/lib/systemd/systemd-remount-fs
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I guess so, then you can discuss how the code should get reordered to generate machine-id on a r/w root
<didrocks> ah, indeed
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! und Dir?
<didrocks> pitti: let me add a sleep, just to confirm it's racy
<pitti> didrocks: according to our current theory, no amount of sleep should help
<didrocks> pitti: you don't think this target was started before?
<pitti> didrocks: if it does help, we are back to "async remounting r/w"
<seb128> pitti, auch gut, danke
<pitti> didrocks: nah, it first initializes, then starts units
<pitti> didrocks: but actually, the "Booting up is supported only when" indicates that it might not even be considered a bug
<didrocks> you're right, of course, [    2.326811] systemd[1]: Found ordering cycle on local-fs.target/start
<didrocks> the target is afterwards
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. you run into case 3), while our workaround is case 2)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I wonder however how this work with the empty /etc then
<pitti> didrocks: can't hurt to ask on the ML
<seb128> pitti, didrocks, do you guys need systemd tester yet? or is that enough on the "known issue list" that you don't need more feedback yet?
<pitti> seb128: both actually
<didrocks> pitti: starting a second thread today you mean? :)
<pitti> seb128: we have a good deal of stuff to work on, but that by far doesn't mean that we know about every boot race or breakage with customizations
<seb128> pitti, let me rephrase
<pitti> didrocks: the other was yesterday :)
<didrocks> yeah, I didn't phrase it correctly :)
<didrocks> ok, let's do it
<seb128> if I opt in, am I going to run into 10 known gotcha and waste half a day dealing with known issues?
<seb128> e.g that wouldn't be useful work neither for me nor for you
<pitti> seb128: ah -- no, it really should boot and work normally
<didrocks> seb128: I guess you won't get blocked (hopefully) on anything
<seb128> or is that supposed to be "everything works, if you have an issue it's interesting and we should debug it together"
<pitti> seb128: unless you use things like root on NFS or server-ish packages which only have an upstart job
<didrocks> seb128: you can even try one boot without turning the switch on definitively
<pitti> seb128: if your desktop doesn't boot, or hardware doesn't work etc, please do tell me
<seb128> k
<pitti> seb128: as that's absolutely expected to work
<seb128> do I need to install special packages or just systemd?
<pitti> seb128: don't install anything; for the first try, just boot with init=/bin/systemd
<willcooke> g'morn
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<pitti> seb128: if you want to do that more permanently, you can install systemd-sysv, but it works just fine on the kernel cmd line
<pitti> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey wik
<seb128> hey willcooke
<larsu> morning willcooke
<pitti> seb128: so go ahead, do it, and be amazed of the Lennart mugshot on the framebuffer during boot!
<seb128> lol
<pitti> didrocks: ah, he thinks I was joking!
<larsu> cute
<seb128> thanks, as much I would like to throw darts in my laptop's screen, I sort of need the screen :p
<pitti> oh, and no pets within 50 m!
<didrocks> pitti: "he"?
<seb128> happyaron,
<seb128> DÃ©paquetage de libfcitx-qt5-0:i386 (0.1.2-2ubuntu2) ...
<seb128> dpkg: erreur de traitement de l'archive /var/cache/apt/archives/libfcitx-qt5-0_0.1.2-2ubuntu2_i386.deb (--unpack)Â :
<seb128>  tentative de remplacement de Â«Â /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libfcitx-qt5.so.0.1Â Â», qui appartient aussi au paquet fcitx-libs-qt5:i386 0.1.2-2build1
<seb128> happyaron, known issue?
<pitti> didrocks: read the two lines above
<didrocks> ahah :)
<happyaron> nope, I "though" it was handled, but could be wrong
<seb128> happyaron, just happened with today's vivid updates
<seb128> brb, restarting
 * didrocks grrrr at thunderbird freezing again
<happyaron> haven't received that update (by not using main archive server
<didrocks> pitti: sent, let's see how it goes, I hope my explanations are clear enough, feel free to annotate
<pitti> didrocks: ack, thanks
<didrocks> yw
<pitti> didrocks: sounds clear enough to me, thanks!
<didrocks> great ;)
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, if I've a process "/bin/systemd splash" running it's that systemd is in use?
<seb128> well in use as pid1
<pitti> seb128: yes; you can call "systemctl" to see if it works, too
<seb128> pitti, initctl works, but I guess that does magic to redirect to systemd jobs?
<didrocks> seb128: then, can you try systemctl status as well and report the "State:" line?
<seb128>     State: degraded
<pitti> seb128: no, it doesn't; if "sudo initctl" works, then you have upstart running
<pitti> seb128: but I believe you are looking at the session upstart
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<seb128> k, systemd is in use then
<pitti> seb128: systemctl --failed ?
<didrocks> ok, systemctl should have red (failed) lines, what are they?
<seb128> why is "Degraded"Â§?
<pitti> seb128: (without the ?)
<seb128> â ifup@eth1.service   loaded failed failed ifup for eth1
<seb128> â ifup@virbr0.service loaded failed failed ifup for virbr0
<seb128> â ifup@wlan0.service  loaded failed failed ifup for wlan0
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> pitti: see, I'm not alone! :)
<pitti> sudo systemctl show ifup@eth1.service
<seb128> is that fixed with the update from this morning?
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you figure it's that same bug?
<didrocks> I'm pretty sure
<didrocks> seb128: no /run/network directory?
<pitti> seb128: most likely, yes
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9091049/
<pitti> seb128: do you have ls -l /etc/rc*.d/*networking*
<seb128> didrocks, no such dir
<pitti> seb128: sorry, my bad -- I mean sudo systemctl status ifup@eth1.service
<pitti> seb128: ok, same bug then -- I figure you don't have any sysvinit links to networking
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/9091050/
<pitti> thus /etc/init.d/networking doesn't get started
<seb128> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 aoÃ»t  11 10:19 /etc/rc0.d/K07networking -> ../init.d/networking
<pitti> right, as I expected
<didrocks> seb128:   [ Didier Roche ]
<didrocks>   * debian/ifup@.service: add a ConditionPath on /run/network, to avoid
<didrocks>     failing the unit if /etc/init.d/networking is disabled. (Closes: #769528)
<pitti> seb128: so, that failure is fixed with -6ubuntu1
<didrocks> yw ;)
<seb128> didrocks, <seb128> is that fixed with the update from this morning?
<pitti> seb128: the more interesting question is: what disabled networking in the first place?
<seb128> yeah, I read the changelog on -changes
<didrocks> so yeah ;)
<seb128> pitti, not me
<pitti> seb128: you don't care much, as you use NM
<pitti> but on a server that would be wrong
<seb128> right
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, same for me, I didn't remember to have done that
<pitti> I suspect that this is some kind of upgrade failure
<didrocks> yeah
<pitti> maybe ifupdown or initscripts do something funky
<didrocks> or it's a deskop-team cabale :)
<pitti> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Okt  5 17:59 /etc/rc0.d/K06networking -> ../init.d/networking
<pitti> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Okt  5 17:59 /etc/rc6.d/K06networking -> ../init.d/networking
<pitti> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Nov 17 11:00 /etc/rcS.d/S09networking -> ../init.d/networking
<pitti> I have this
<pitti> i. e. rcS.d.
<seb128> I don't have the rcS.d one
<pitti> seb128: ok, so that's interesting, thanks for pointing out; I was writing off didrocks' as local breakage
<pitti> seb128: anyway, it's entirely harmless for now
<seb128> k
<pitti> seb128: (the "degraded")
<seb128> well, I'm going to wait for the update to be available and reboot
<pitti> seb128: desktop, networking, bluetooth etc. all as it should be?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I didn't notice a visible difference so far
<seb128> oh, no
<seb128> no bluetooth!
<seb128> no indicator and the settings list no adapter found
<seb128> wth?
<pitti> seb128: you probably disabled it in sysetm-settings
<seb128> disabled what? the indicator?
<pitti> seb128: upstart scripts have a bug to never actually remember the status across reboots, although they try
<didrocks> seb128: bluetooth entirely
<pitti> seb128: yeah, indicator bug -- it doesn't appear if you have BT soft-killed
<seb128> no, unity-control-center sees no hardware
<didrocks> if you enable it in g-c-c, you should get the indicator
<didrocks> how
<seb128> well I didn't kill it
<didrocks> oh*
<pitti> right
<seb128> g-c-c thinks there is no hardware
<pitti> seb128: output of "rfkill list"?
<seb128> 1: dell-bluetooth: Bluetooth
<seb128> 	Soft blocked: yes
<seb128> 	Hard blocked: no
<pitti> there you go
<pitti> that's the thing that the inidicator should look at
<seb128> shrug
<pitti> seb128: you can enable it in g-c-c
<seb128> how did I do that?
<seb128> no I can't
<pitti> hm, I can
<seb128> g-c-c says I've no hardware
<seb128> hum, it's acting weird
<pitti> seb128: "rfkill unblock 1"
<seb128> if I toggle the switch it just goes back to disabled
<seb128> that worked
<didrocks> seb128: does it display the indicator then?
<didrocks> seb128: there is a bug I noticed between the indicator and g-c-c
<seb128> didrocks, no, but I disabled that, I don't need the indicator
<pitti> seb128: right, that's what g-c-c is supposed to do; it does that here, even if it goes back to "disabled"
<didrocks> if you turn it on in g-c-c, it goes back like 80% to disable
<Laney> good day systemd fans
<didrocks> if you use the indicator, it updates its status
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<pitti> yeah, the indicator grays out if you disabled BT in the current session, but it doesn't appear at all if you boot with BT hard or soft killed
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, is any of you looking to the "go back to disable"?
<didrocks> seb128: I don't think it's systemd, I got it with upstart
<seb128> is that bug filed?
<seb128> didrocks, I didn't say it was, but you seem to know about it
<didrocks> I was thinking it was blueman + indicator at the time
<seb128> didrocks, so I was curious if it was filed/being debugged
<pitti> no, the difference with systemd is merely that saving state across reboot actually works
<seb128> pitti, ^
<didrocks> and I just killed blueman to see if that was the cause, it wasn't
<pitti> whereas with upstart it doesn't -- it always comes back enabled (at least here)
<seb128> no everything has to do with systemd :p
<seb128> we should still fix bugs
<pitti> seb128: yes, absolutely
<pitti> seb128: I filed a related bug many months ago, hang on
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I can open the bug, I have just vague reproducer steps though and didn't look at it in detail, just mentionned it in the bluez session
<seb128> didrocks, seems like pitti already did ;-)
<pitti> ah, bug 1126108
<didrocks> seb128: I bet it's an indicator + g-c-c kind of thing
<ubot5> bug 1126108 in indicator-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "Indicator disappears entirely when disabling / turning off bluetooth" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1126108
<didrocks> hum
<seb128> didrocks, oh, I remember that one, it's a different issue
<pitti> still the very same description/symptom, apparently this either regressed, or wasn't fixed completly
<seb128> the one I was speaking about is that the g-c-c control goes back to disabled when you try to enabled bt
<didrocks> seb128: you disabled the indicator and you still have it?
<seb128> pitti, the issue was discussed a bit on robert_ancell's mp iirc
<didrocks> (it being the bug)
<pitti> seb128: ah; no, I didn't file one for that
<pitti> seb128: it feels like it doesn't wait long enough for BT to appear or something such
<seb128> didrocks, no, I disabled showing the icon, the indicator is still running
<didrocks> seb128: I just chmod -x the indicator and killed it
<didrocks> the bug is still there
<seb128> k
<seb128> didrocks, you know you can "stop indicator-bluetooth"? ;-)
<seb128> upstart management ftw
<pitti> seb128: didrocks likes the blunt and heavy tools :)
<didrocks> seb128: I'm using old school trick learnt from an ex-french guy :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> so anyway, it's not the indicator which is resetting the status under g-c-c feets
<seb128> indeed not
<didrocks> seems it's shooting itself in its feet
<pitti> speaking of ex-french -- seb128, hoe goed spreek je Nederlands door nu?
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> pitti, ik ben Sebastien
<seb128> danku
<pitti> Ik hou van je!
<seb128> that's about what I learnt :p
<seb128> lol
 * didrocks smells some google translate under this :)
 * pitti looks innocent -- what is this Gogle trans-late?
<mlankhorst> hah
<didrocks> it's an early thingy
<Laney> hoe gaat het
<pitti> Laney: goed, dank je!
<didrocks> seb128: seems to be quite an old bug: bug #1056947
<ubot5> bug 1056947 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Cannot turn on bluetooth after turning it off from the indicator" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056947
 * mlankhorst tries reading afrikaans and giggles
<seb128> didrocks, indeed, thanks for checking
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1056947/comments/7
<didrocks> yw
 * Laney reboots with systemd too
 * Laney doesn't want to be left out
<didrocks> Laney: tell us about your system state, if you are in degraded mode or not
<Laney> and actually I use /e/n/i on my desktop :-)
<didrocks> old school guy!
<didrocks> seb128: what do you think about desktoppers not using n-m? :)
<Laney> needed a bridge interface for lxc
<Laney> LXC!!!!!
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> didrocks, be nice to old people
<pitti> Laney: the default one doesn't do? I use LXC all the time
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> pitti: I wanted it to get real IPs on my LAN (+ avahi, etc), does it do that now?
<pitti> Laney: ah no, the automatic virbr0 is just a 10.0.3.0/24
<Laney> nod
<pitti> Laney: anyway, it should work just fine, did it?
<Laney> dist-upgrading first
<pitti> Laney: err, I mean lxcbr0, not virbr
<pitti> it doesn't even add a global IPv6 address, sheesh!
<Laney> oh noes, Errors were encountered while processing:
 * Laney looks at this first
<Laney> gnome-flashback
<Laney> mitya57!!!!!
<GunnarHj> Hi pitti!
<Laney> ah, good to see Lennart's face
<Laney> and now we're booted
<Laney> didrocks: so what is degraded mode?
<didrocks> Laney: systemctl status | grep State
<Laney> running
<didrocks> sweet, no failure then :)
<Laney> it took a while, might have been fscking or something
<Laney> no plymouth to tell me
<didrocks> yeah, this is known
<didrocks> otherwise, just try basic system like bluetooth and so on, and ensure it's working :)
<didrocks> but not having any units failing is already something
<Laney> don't have any fancy hardware there
<Laney> except the webcam?
<Laney> holy shit, cheese is segfaulting
 * Laney runs
<didrocks> it doesn't here, let me upgrade gstreamer :)
<Laney> seems gtk-3.14-ish
<Laney> I get a ton of criticals
<Laney> seb128: confirm/deny?
<didrocks> ok, I'm on 3.12
<seb128> Laney, xfm
<seb128> wfm even
<seb128> no critical
<Laney> with 3.14?
<seb128> yes
<Laney> what
<seb128> WHAT
<Laney> you capture my thoughts precisely
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9092839/ that's G_DEBUG=fatal-criticals
<larsu> uh oh icon view
<Laney> you have clue?
<larsu> no, but icon view is notoriously bad to find issus in
<larsu> this only started happening with systemd?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I only tried it just now
<Laney> could it really be that?
<larsu> unlikely
<seb128> no
<larsu> just asking after glancing at the scrollback
<seb128> I'm using systemd as well :p
<Laney> we're all so futuristic
<seb128> Laney, does it happen if you unset gtk_modules?
<seb128> do you have o-s enabled?
<Laney> criticals yes, segfault no
<seb128> just asking, because who knows
<larsu> Laney: the bt you linked is a critical as well. Where's the crash?
<Laney> it doesn't happen when I gdb
<seb128> weird
<Laney> lemme see if apport got a dump
<Laney> yes
<Laney> libjpegâ½
<larsu> neat - seems unrelated to the cell_area one...
<Laney> this trace is not entirely helpful
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9093045/
<larsu> hm, indeed not
<Laney> 3.14 fixes the criticals but not the crash
<mitya57> Laney: oh, I did add Breaks, but to the wrong binary package. Thanks for fixing it!
<Laney> mitya57: I didn't delete the old ones, you might want to do that. Wasn't going to fully understand the updates in order to work that out. :)
<mitya57> I see, will delete in next upload.
<Laney> 'kay
<larsu> "
<larsu> I'm not an expert, but I don't think I need 114 instances of indicator-
<larsu> sound-service."
<seb128> larsu, lol
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, trying to backport most of trunk changes back to rtm? do you need some help there?
<kenvandine> seb128, done already :)
<kenvandine> just getting them ready so we can work on them one at a time as the bugs get approved
<seb128> kenvandine, done with everything, we can go home? ;-)
<kenvandine> for ota-1
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> yeah, there are no more bugs, ever :)
<seb128> \o/
<kenvandine> seb128, did you enjoy the MP spam? :-p
<seb128> kenvandine, did! I bounced some back your way
<seb128> kenvandine, we need to figure out a strategy for string changes
<kenvandine> yes.. we do
<kenvandine> seb128, we've let some string changes in vivid, and at some point vivid is going to rtm :)
<kenvandine> roll baby roll!
<seb128> kenvandine, that's fine since by that time vivid is going to have updated langpacks
<seb128> kenvandine, which is not the case of rtm if we land one of your settings changes
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> 2 of them i think
<kenvandine> but, they said we are going to update the langpacks in rtm
<kenvandine> we just need to coordinate that with the string changes
<seb128> well, how do you coordinate?
<seb128> you need the new template to be in place before generating the langpacks
<seb128> otherwise they are not going to include the correct translations
<kenvandine> i think olli decided the string changes would be for ota-1, we just need to make sure the langpacks get generated after landing
<kenvandine> yeah, generate them after landing and before images
<seb128> well, as long as it happens
<seb128> we should probably flag all string changes
<kenvandine> i suggested we plan all the packages that have string changes to land at the same time
<seb128> and have a special day where we land all those
<seb128> then do langpack exports
<kenvandine> yup
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> that's what i suggested
 * seb128 ^5 kenvandine
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, where/how do we define display-manager.service to be lightdm and what would be the way for a sysadmin to change that to e.g gdm?
<seb128> is that an alternative still? where is the magic? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: it hasn't changed really -- debconf and /etc/X11/default-display-manager
<pitti> it can't change either (it's reeealy complex), as we need to stay compatible to sysvinit and upstart
<seb128> pitti, I was just wondering what handles /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service
<seb128> to make it point to the right service
<pitti> seb128: that's in {lightdm,gdm,...}.postinst
<pitti> seb128: they check debconf and make this link point to your selection
<seb128> pitti, ok, because I just installed xdm
<didrocks> pitti: speaking of which, again something quite incompatible with the "default distro not in /etc"
<seb128> and selected in debconf to make it default
<seb128> and /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service still points to lightdm.service
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> seb128: probably not patched, mind opening a bug, I can look at this?
<pitti> seb128: I think I only tried that with gdm3 and lightdm (kdm is also patched now); right, probably it needs to learn about this, too
<seb128> didrocks, debian has https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=759005
<ubot5> Debian bug 759005 in xdm "xdm: Missing xdm.service, can't use with systemd" [Wishlist,Open]
<seb128> though it's slightly different
<seb128> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=748668 as well
<ubot5> Debian bug 748668 in slim "slim: Under systemd, randomly hijacks default-x-display-manager ignoring default selection" [Important,Open]
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, a little bit, I'll look at both
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw, see you found desktop-work on systemd :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> not sure we should spend much time making random dms work
<seb128> but I guess it's something we should fix if it's not too much work
<didrocks> yeah, shouldn't be that much
<didrocks> and I'll use that as a way to think about the empty /etc case
<didrocks> (even if not applying for now)
<maxb> I have a weird issue with CUPS (Printers added with the lpadmin command line produce strange errors on system-config-printer). Is this a sensible channel to look for help in filing a useful bug, or is there a better one?
<seb128> tkamppeter, ^
<larsu> maxb: best place is probably #openprinting on this server. What are the errors you're getting?
<larsu> seb128: beat me :P
<seb128> ;-)
<maxb> Attempting to access the properties page for a device added with lpadmin results in "There was a problem connecting to the CUPS server.". Running system-config-printer with --debug doesn't seem to show anything that would indicate the problem's source
<larsu> maxb: is CUPS running?
<maxb> Yes; devices added using the system-config-printer UI can have their properties pages viewed fine
<maxb> Strangely, using "Duplicate" on a problem device in the UI produces a copy which does not experience the same problem. I've attempted to deduce what the difference is by studying the contents of /etc/cups/ but have been unable to locate an issue
<larsu> maxb: very weird. Please try to talk to tkamppeter or twaugh (here or in #openprinting)
<maxb> ok
<tkamppeter> maxb, if you are able to print on your lpadmin-generated print queue and the only problem of it is to access its "Properties" window on system-config-printer, then report a bug on Launchpad, for the system-config-printer package. Tim Waugh will see the report and ask you further questions for debugging it.
<maxb> tkamppeter: printing doesn't work either, I was just using the properties page as something easy to reproduce
<tkamppeter> maxb, what error message do you get when you print something from the command line, using the "lp" or "lpr" command?
<maxb> Hmm, that's interesting, printing from "echo foo | lpr" worked, whilst printing from Chrome just waited indefinitely with nothing happening
<tkamppeter> maxb, in which stage does Chrome's printing hang? When opening the print dialog or when clicking "Print" inside the print dialog?
<maxb> At the point of clicking the final "Print" button. It doesn't hang as such in that it can still be closed, but nothing happens even when waiting for quite some time
<tkamppeter> Does the print dialog close when clicking on "Print" and the job does not come out or does the dialog stay open looking like CUPS is not answering to the click on "Print"?
<maxb> Printing from gedit works, if that helps narrow anything down
<tkamppeter> maxb ^^
<maxb> The second - dialog is mostly greyed out after clicking print, apart from the "Cancel" button
<maxb> That was with Chrome's custom application print dialog. I just tried the same using "Print using system print dialog" - the dialog closed after clicking Print, and the job appears to have never been submitted
<tkamppeter> maxb, is it only Chrome which does not print or are there other applications?
<maxb> Just tried Thunderbird - that worked
<maxb> Hmm, a second try of Chrome-using-system-dialog seems to have worked, so maybe the problems are confined to apps attempting to query cups about printers in some way
<maxb> Oh great, the behaviour of my system appears to have changed.
<maxb> Now I get "Unable to get queue details. Treating queue as raw." when opening the properties window for BOTH the UI-configured device and the CLI-configured device
<tkamppeter> maxb, please report two bugs on Launchpad, one on system-config-printer for your problem with the "Properties" dialog, a second one on cups for the problem with Chrome (add chrome-browser as a second task). To both add an appropriate error_log as described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems, section "CUPS error_log". For creating the one about the print dialog of Chrome, follow also the instructions of "R
<tkamppeter> eporting Bugs".
 * maxb will give it a go. Currently CUPS is failed to save settings after I tick the "Save debugging information for troubleshooting" box.
<maxb> Perhaps a reboot would be wise at this point
<maxb> The good(?) news is that after a reboot the bug is back to the original presentation and I am able to turn on the debug options
<maxb> Erm, the excitement continues, apparently I'm out of inodes because my /tmp is full of millions of symlinks to nonexistent PPD files
<maxb> ARGH
<maxb> Right
<maxb> tkamppeter: Apparently "There was a problem connecting to the CUPS server." means "I can't open the PPD file as user maxb because it's mode 750 root:lp"
<maxb> And this is the issue for Chrome too
<desrt> hi hi desktopers
<seb128> hey desrt, how are you? had a good few days off work?
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, that systemd update fixed the failed ifup units issue, confirmed after an upgrade/reboot, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: nice!
<didrocks> hey desrt :)
<mitya57> bregma: are you taking care of lp:~albertsmuktupavels/compiz/support-libmetacity-private-3-14?
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I have another proposal (upstream) for the alternatives in systemd. I'll wait to hopefully get some answers on the current one maybe first
<bregma> mitya57, yes indeed, it's awaiting a ci-train silo assignment
<mitya57> ok, thanks
<didrocks> pitti: I'm happy to expose it to you though :)
<Sweet5hark> clang plugins are awsome.
<Sweet5hark> ... if you are a bit morbid, it finds you bool ? true : false statements containing >60 individual statements including other conditional operators. Or assignments that contain other assignments and also are containing more than 50 individual statements. yay for sideeffects ....
<didrocks> pitti: actually, my proposal is implemented in systemd looking at the code, so I guess it makes sense! I will just propose a way we change how we handle this to be more declarative
<pitti> didrocks: which one now? the want.d/ or machine-id, or something else?
<didrocks> pitti: how we do handle alternatives, like display manager, I need to go out soon, but I'm happy to talk to you about it tomorrow morning (finishing up some end of day cleanup tasks)
<seb128> oh, just a fyi I've a day off tomorrow
<seb128> in case somebody wonders why I'm not around
<seb128> I'm back on friday
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, me too; just came back quickly upon an SMS :)
<pitti> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<didrocks> see you on Friday seb128! :)
<seb128> didrocks, have a good evening!
<Sweet5hark> seb128: have fun! (and when you are back, consider uploading the libreoffice pkg for vivid) ;)
<didrocks> thanks
<Sweet5hark> s/consider/please consider/
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey, you didn't reply to my ping from yesterday about the version bump, did you?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, upload is blocked on that to happen on your side
<seb128> Sweet5hark, or did you update since and I missed your ping about it?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hmm, must have missed that. whats missing?
<seb128> Sweet5hark, the version you put up for sponsoring is already in utopic-updates and it can't exist with different builds in different series
<seb128> Sweet5hark, we can't copy the binaries because of the libpoppler abi change in vivid
<seb128> Sweet5hark, so you need at least to bump the version to 0ubuntu2
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ah, ok. willdo.
<seb128> thanks
<Sweet5hark> seb128: have fun on your day off!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thank you!
 * willcooke -> EOD
<willcooke> *mic drop*
<RAOF> desrt: Hey, dude. Where's the place to go to propose a new desktop item field?
<desrt> xdg list
<desrt> what did you have in mind?
<desrt> i might be able to save you some time by telling you why you won't get what you want :)
<RAOF> Sure.
<RAOF> I want a Needs-GPU: field.
<RAOF> With... some contents.
<desrt> you're not going to get that :)
<desrt> why do you want it?
<RAOF> Hybrid graphics
<desrt> you might be interested in TryExec=
<RAOF> No, that's not going to help.
<desrt> it's the name of a utility program to run to decide if the desktop file in question should be displayed or not
<RAOF> The shell wants a way to know whether or not to start this application on the discrete chip or whether the integrated chip is ok.
<desrt> hm.
<desrt> that's a bit more interesting.
<RAOF> eg: Games always want the fastest chip, totem won't care.
<desrt> does it affect the libGL that gets linked or something?
<RAOF> Implementation dependent.
<desrt> heh
<RAOF> But on the free stack it's basically setting the DRI_PRIME environment variable.
<desrt> my answer to you would be to figure it out at runtime
<RAOF> How can the shell figure this out at runtime?
<desrt> not the shell -- the just-started app
<RAOF> How does the just-started app respect your powersaving prefernces?
<desrt> presumably we would have some library component in there responsible for the decision making
<RAOF> This sounds super-complicated vs Wants-GPU: Fastest / Wants-GPU: don't care
<desrt> considering that the general trend right now is moving over to using dbus activation to launch apps via systemd, the shell isn't going to be able to control the environment that this happens under anyway
<desrt> also: it wouldn't only be the shell in any case... imagine an app that gets started on account of a file association from nautilus (or firefox, or anything else...)
<RAOF> Incidentally, why is the general trend towards starting apps via dbus activation over systemd?
<desrt> for a lot of reasons
<desrt> mostly because apps are increasingly being seen as services, only one feature of which is "please launch now"
<desrt> other features might be "please do something appropriate in response to this push notification" or "please reply to the shell's search query"
<desrt> another reason is because it means that apps are always started in a clean environment, as a direct child of the session manager, able to be monitored and in their own cgroup
<desrt> instead of as a fork() off of whatever random app wanted to open text/plain without really caring who got called
<RAOF> This has a certain charm.
<RAOF> But what I'm hearing here is that I want to patch systemd :)
<desrt> i think what really needs to happen is that the app needs to tell the system on startup (ie: at the time of initialising GL) "i want the big one"
<desrt> although i understand that the our diverse landscape of drivers from not-entirely-cooperative vendors might make that difficult to do
<RAOF> I always love boil-the-oceans solutions :)
<desrt> well, eventually the ocean will boil
<desrt> these things can sometimes happen pretty quickly
<desrt> meanwhile, maybe use a wrapper script or something
<desrt> Exec=hardcore-graphics /path/to/original/exe
<RAOF> That doesn't really satisfy my goal of âthis information should be upstreamâ
<desrt> where that hardcore-graphics thing consults [whatever] and sets environment variables as needed
<desrt> ya... you gotta boil the ocean for that :)
<desrt> but seriously, though.... how do we handle this?
<RAOF> Currently?
<RAOF> We don't, at all.
<desrt> right
<RAOF> Hybrid graphics remains the preserve of the nerdy.
<desrt> you have one thing called libGL
<desrt> and it is what it is
<RAOF> Actually... I'm not sure that's true. I think the *proprietary* drivers actually have some semblance of reasonable user interface. But I've not used them.
<desrt> i wonder if something like libepoxy could help
<RAOF> Well, the âwe have one thing called libGLâ (a) isn't a problem for the free stack, and (b) is getting fixed by a new Linux GL ABI.
<desrt> that's really more of a consumer-side helper, though
<RAOF> Right.
<desrt> but this sort of pointer trickery is what i have in mind
<desrt> GL people love that crap
<desrt> you can switch out the entire guts of the implementation on them at runtime :)
<desrt> ...at least it would help to substantially reduce the amount of manual indirection you are responsible for maintaining...
<RAOF> So, design goals: The app should be able to say âgive me the awesome oneâ, the desktop should be able to determine which one the app gets.
<desrt> i think the way the app should do this is with a call to some function early in main() before GL is initialised
<desrt> this call might well be setenv()
<desrt> it's certainly not -too- difficult to imagine a fake libGL that connects you with a different real implementation under it depending on some random things determined at runtime
<desrt> you could even make it based on ifuncs...
<desrt> (although those are known to have issues with environment varaibles and they might be 'too early' to be useful to you)
<RAOF> I guess it's much easier if you drop the âshell should have controlâ requirement.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-20
<desrt> RAOF: at the end of the day, if i don't agree with your power policy i can always for (;;) ;
<RAOF> desrt: But that won't spin up > 45W worth of GPU :P
<desrt> also: unless you use proper access control at the kernel level, i can always ship my own nvidia driver blob and hit up the device node for myself
<RAOF> Well, you can try. :)
<RAOF> I think we *do* have proper access control, actually.
<mlankhorst> god morning
<pitti> Good morning
 * olli waves at pitti
<pitti> hey olli
<didrocks> morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> didrocks: btw, if/when you plan to work on the enabled(preset) or similar things, you know src/test/test-install.c? with those unit tests this is much easier and faster to reproduce/iterate/fix
<didrocks> pitti: oh nice, I'll work with that. Thanks to the pointer :)
<pitti> didrocks: and it's rather important to have tests for this behaviour, too :)
<didrocks> pitti: It would be good to have some other feedbacks anyway
<didrocks> yeah :)
<didrocks> pitti: so, for alternatives, I was thinking about using systemd alias rather than handling ourselves the symlinks
<didrocks> that removes a little bit of internal systemd knowledge that we put in postinst
<pitti> didrocks: not sure what you mean?
<didrocks> pitti: here is an example for lightdm: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/lightdm/systemd-alias/revision/2099
<pitti> didrocks: oh, for the display-manager; I thought for wants/ :)
<didrocks> ah no, for the thing I was thinking yesterday evening :)
<didrocks> so, how to treat alternatives, basically
<pitti> didrocks: oh, I like that!
<didrocks> the benefits is that it's compatible with existing ones, so we don't need to migrate everything in one shot :)
<didrocks> if you +1, I'll propose patches to debian (and maybe upload right away in ubuntu?)
<pitti> didrocks: but please note that e. g. systemctl reload won't work under upstart/sysv
<didrocks> pitti: that's the thing I need to test, will it error out?
<didrocks> (need to start a vm to test)
<pitti> fairly sure
<didrocks> let me have a try
<didrocks> if so 2>/dev/null || true
<pitti> didrocks: is-enabled/enable etc. also work without systemd, but this one might not -- so it at least needs to be guarded
<pitti> didrocks: [ -d /run/systemd/system ]
<didrocks> pitti: you prefer to guard that only call? like [ -d /run/systemd/system ] && systemctl daemon-reload
<didrocks> yeah, it's failing
<pitti> didrocks: I'm not 100% sure about is-enabled; if that works without systemd, use it; otherwise we need to check the file system directly as previously
<didrocks> pitti: it does, just tested
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so that would look like this in the end: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~didrocks/lightdm/systemd-alias/view/head:/debian/lightdm.postinst#L72
<pitti> didrocks: why do you need the daemon-reload at this point? you didn't change anything yet?
<didrocks> pitti: we just dropped a new .service file from the package installation, no?
<pitti> didrocks: oh, for this one
<didrocks> and on upgrade, we added the alias
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I was hoping that we would have some option like --force-unless-mask
<pitti> didrocks: so please run this by Josselin Mouette
<didrocks> but seems a little bit overkill :)
<didrocks> ok, doing
<pitti> didrocks: I worked with him on the sprint on that general scheme, and has a great understanding of that
<pitti> didrocks: and we should hten have the same approach in gdm
<didrocks> right :)
<pitti> didrocks: so to be clear, this is no functional change, just simpler/fewer file system assumptions, right?
<pitti> (on the way -- possibly -- to reducing symlinks in etc)
<didrocks> pitti: exactly, it's the same mechanism as of today and the results in term of symlinks are the same
<pitti> purrfect
<didrocks> but we don't rely on internals
<didrocks> so, hoping that if we can convince on clearer /etcâ¦ :)
<pitti> even if not, using the official is-enabled/enable API is better anyway
<didrocks> yeah
 * willcooke -> sick.  Ping if you need anything, but I'll be mostly not here
<didrocks> urgh, good luck willcooke :/
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<LocutusOfBorg1> morning desktoppers
<didrocks> morning LocutusOfBorg1
<Laney> what's up
<pitti> hey Laney
<pitti> didrocks: FYI, offline for ~ 2 h to reinstall my laptop; just got a replacement for the dying hard drive
<didrocks> oh ok! ttyl
<Laney> "I can reproduce this", such sweet words when said by an upstream ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: heh, which ones in that case? :)
<Laney> libv4l
<didrocks> ok ;)
<Laney> it's a crash in some asm inside libjpeg
<Laney> yeah ...
<Laney> http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/19/mozilla-partners-with-yahoo-which-will-become-the-default-search-engine-in-firefox-next-month/
<mlankhorst> so we will use microsoft? :P
<chrisccoulson> mlankhorst, short answer - no ;)
<larsu> long answer?
<larsu> (which I presume is the more interesting one)
<chrisccoulson> larsu, the same :)
<larsu> haha :)
<larsu> short answer: no. Long answer: nein
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * didrocks remembers the buzz when we talked about switching to Yahoo on the netbook edition in 2010
<didrocks> and all those hard words against us
<didrocks> I think Mozilla won't have the same treatment "because"
<ogra_> well, they are at least clever enough to do everything at once ... their advertisement tiles one month, the default search engine next
<ogra_> we always waited til one issue settled to fire up the next :)
<didrocks> indeed :)
<larsu> didrocks: they're just changing providers, whereas it looked like we wanted to extract more money and are greedy
<didrocks> larsu: well, they are doing that as their deal is closing, so they want to extract some money, which is understandable :)
<larsu> didrocks: of course, but it doesn't seem like that to the public
<larsu> at least that's the impression i get
<larsu> or they just like mozilla better :P
<ogra_> nah, the public just freaks more out over scientist shirts than over apps ... the fashion moved on ;)
<larsu> that freak-out was justified though
<ogra_> oh come on ... he wore a present his GF made for him on his big day ...
<larsu> you mean its better that he and his girlfriend feel good than all the people he works with?
<larsu> how about this: "my girlfriend once gave me a 'the people that make ubuntu are idiots' tshirt and I wore it to UDS - I don't know why the people there were offended"
<ogra_> well, seeing how petty the web got over the last ten years i slowly start not feeling bad that i'm a german anymore
<ogra_> he never claimed he didnt know why people are offended
<ogra_> and he aplologized ...
<ogra_> what i find horrible is that thw world got so humorless that he had to
<didrocks> it's really true (and sad) that now, everything is a base of controverse
<larsu> ogra_: ya, they certainly overreacted - just saying the sentiment was justified
<larsu> didrocks: that's not true
<didrocks> soon, we'll have everyone suited the same, with the same hair cut, in a very white room
<ogra_> overreaction might be *the* word describing this decade :)
<didrocks> larsu: I'm not talking about that particular case, but seeing the number of meaningless "buzz" we are seeingâ¦
<didrocks> buzz on $random polemics
<ogra_> and i'm scared where that might go ... socially ...
<didrocks> ogra_: completely agree
<didrocks> the president has his tie knot never done right -> first world problem
<didrocks> (and this really happened for months in France)
<larsu> didrocks: obviously this is a different problem and I totally agree there
<larsu> the press was talking about whether the 1st lady is allowed to have a tatoo in Germany for a while
<larsu> ridiculous.
<ogra_> well, that just the press being the press ...
<ogra_> *that's
<didrocks> the press wasn't like that beforeâ¦
<didrocks> or not that much
<didrocks> and it's because the society asks for this
<ogra_> its a two edged thing ... it is to generate more money due to more sensationalism ... the society gets more numb ... you need more sensationalism ... etc etc
<achiang> didrocks: maybe no one cares about switching to yahoo because everyone who does care already switched to chrome ;)
<didrocks> achiang: ahah, I'm sure this is not untrue :)
<achiang> btw, i understand there is still some bug in unity/compiz 14.04.1 where resuming on multi-monitor setup results in lost window placements...
<achiang> is that stuck in the sru queue somewhere?
<didrocks> hum, I didn't hear about it, bregma? ^
<didrocks> or Trevinho? ^
<Trevinho> achiang: never heard of that...
<Trevinho> achiang: get a crash also?
<Laney> I have similar
<achiang> no crash, it's just unity/compiz losing its mind
<Trevinho> weird... and i *only*suspend... :o
<bregma> achiang, I haven't heard of a problem on simple resume
<Laney> if I turn one of my monitors off then it gets disabled as far as the system is concerned
<achiang> bregma: it's one of my worst papercuts :(
<Laney> this messes up the window placement
<Laney> i.e. they all get put on one monitor
<bregma> oh, unless it's the timing-related problem where a monitor does not come back online right away and Compiz thinks it's been removed
<Trevinho> ah, well... that's because one monitor gets turned off, and thus it's what we have to do..
<Trevinho> it might be the case where you unplugged it
<bregma> Trevinho, it shouldn't move the windows to a different workspace
<achiang> in my case, chrome on laptop display (maximized) before suspend, will resume maximized on external monitor
<Trevinho> mh ChrisTownsend did some work on that
<bregma> which is what it does for me when I lose my monitor (damn that loose connection)
<achiang> i also have workspaces turned on
<achiang> and this is over vga, not anything fancy like displayport or hdmi
<bregma> either way, there's no queued fix for that at the moemnt
<achiang> how can i collect debug information?
<achiang> to file a bug?
<bregma> "ubuntu-bug compiz" should do the trick
<achiang> ok
<achiang> also, is there a way to restart a unity session from the command line?
<achiang> i have another hard to reproduce on demand (but happens about 2x a week) where resume from suspend results in compiz and parts of unity (like unity-panel-service) going crazy
<achiang> and no new windows can be opened
<achiang> the only way i can recover is to reboot the entire machine
<achiang> would be nice to just restart unity if possible
<bregma> achiang, 'setsid unity >/dev/null 2>&1 &' should work
<achiang> bregma: awesome, thanks
<achiang> bregma: i can do that from VT1, and it'll restart on VT7?
<bregma> you'd want to set DISPLAY=:0.0
<bregma> ideally you could just type 'restart unity7' from the command-line, but doing it from a VT means needing to set your DBUS_SESSION and UPSTART_SESSION_ID and that can get complicated
<Trevinho> achiang: doing that from VT1 you'd also need dbus...
<achiang> hm
<Trevinho> ouch bregma preceded me :P
<achiang> i mean, my goal in this scenario is to preserve my session, like all my open editor windows, etc.
<Trevinho> achiang: but, if you've a terminal open in your session, once yuou load it you can restart from there
<bregma> I guess I should write a quick script just for this purpose, except it would be tricky on a multi-seat system
<achiang> Trevinho: ah, so if i have a terminal open in the session, i can just type that "setsid" command without worrying about anything else?
<Trevinho> achiang: if you have a terminal, and you get a compiz crash... then you can go to vt1, launch "unity", and then go to vt7.... There launch "unity" again from the terminal
<Trevinho> in this way it will load all the proper dbus and upstart env vars
<Trevinho> (and many others :))
<bregma>  eval "$(tr '\000' '\012' </proc/$(pidof compiz)/environ | grep DBUS_SESSION) $(tr '\000' '\012' </proc/$(pidof compiz)/environ | grep UPSTART_SESSION) restart unity7"
<bregma> that should work
 * bregma wishes he could get more obscure in public
<achiang> Trevinho: what if unity is still mostly running, but can't do interesting things like open new windows?
<achiang> bregma: ok, run that from an open terminal in existing unity session, or run from VT1?
<Trevinho> achiang: mh, that's a weird case
<bregma> achiang, either one should work
<achiang> Trevinho: well, i hit it about 1.5x per week
<achiang> bregma: thx
<achiang> seems exacerbated by running spotify desktop client + hipchat desktop client
 * bregma wonders if rewriting that command in Perl could obfiuscate it more
 * Laney goes away
<Laney> ttyl!
<didrocks> see you guys
<humbletoad> can someone help me with ssh? im having a hell of a time
<humbletoad> im trying to delete my keys from my server, but it isn't letting me log into the thing now
<mitya57> humbletoad: this channel is for development, user support is on #ubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-21
<axp_> Hi !
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers, happy friday
<seb128> mvo, hey, does https://code.launchpad.net/~feng-kylin/software-properties/fix-1306494/+merge/240081 look fine to you?
<didrocks> morning seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
<mvo> seb128: let me check
<mvo> seb128: totally
<seb128> mvo, should I merge/upload it?
<mvo> seb128: go for it
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<ari-tczew> hello
<ari-tczew> I've proposed a merge of simple-scan, would be nice to get it reviewed ;-) https://code.launchpad.net/~ari-tczew/simple-scan/ubuntu/+merge/242459
<didrocks> hey ari-tczew ;)
<ari-tczew> hey didrocks
<didrocks> I guess seb128 is piloting (not sure if he would prefer robert_ancell to review it next week though)
<didrocks> ari-tczew: I just looked quickly, I don't think we would to depend on adwaita-icon-theme,
<seb128> yeah, that's robert_ancell's land
<didrocks> anyway, simple-scan is in main, and adwaita-icon-theme in universe, so either way, either a MIR or depends back on gnome-icon-theme instead
<didrocks> (I think we want the latest, we don't want to have some icons not matching the ubuntu theme installed by default)
<seb128> mvo, could you also look at https://code.launchpad.net/~brunonova/software-properties/lp1381050/+merge/238873 and https://code.launchpad.net/~brunonova/software-properties/lp1383289/+merge/238890 ? they are small ones as well
<didrocks> the rest lgtm, but you should really poke robert
<ari-tczew> didrocks: You're right, adwaita-icon-theme is in universe and we should drop this one depend. I'll update branch ASAP.
<Laney> hullo thur huppy fruday
<didrocks> hey hey Mr Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaney! :)
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<Laney> what's up fool
 * Laney is a gangster now
<didrocks> Friday \o/
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> hey seb128, good day off?
<willcooke> morning all, I'm still ill.  Going back to bed.  Will keep an eye on IRC/mail should anyone want me.
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> larsu, ^^^ can we skip our meeting?
<willcooke> hey seb128
<seb128> got the flu?
<didrocks> get some rest willcooke
<willcooke> yeah think so.  Sore throat, cough, headache, etc
<seb128> k, get better!
<willcooke> didrocks, Laney - thanks for covering the meeting yesterday
<Laney> np, it was a blast!
<didrocks> yw
<mvo> seb128: sure, having a look now
<mvo> willcooke: get well!
<seb128> mvo, danke
<darkxst> didrocks, I am pretty sure there are some new icons in adwaita-icon-theme needed for 3.14
<darkxst> so either those need to be copied across to gnome-icon-theme, or adwaita-icon-theme needs an MIR (with merge of packaging split like gnome-icon-theme)
<larsu> willcooke: of course. Get better!
<didrocks> darkxst: yeah, that's maybe a good point. Not related to simple-scan though as we already have 3.14 here
<tjaalton> did some fonts change in utopic.. I get either blank space or utf code boxes instead of text in some cases in firefox & thunderbird
<tjaalton> and when pasted on a terminal I see the text
<darkxst> didrocks, no not related to simple scan, but possibly needed when gtk 3.14 lands
<didrocks> agreed
<tjaalton> gnome-font-viewer crashes
<tjaalton> hm, I can only change the font size, not the font itself.. something is most def broken
<seb128> tjaalton, I had issues like that but that looked like xorg stack issues
<seb128> e.g restarting the session makes them go away
<Laney> ooh
<Laney> a new and exciting dpkg failure
<Laney> "cycle found while processing triggers"
<tjaalton> seb128: gnome stack, but ok
<tjaalton> no help here
<mvo> seb128: do you want me merge/upload the software-properties stuff or shall I do it?
<seb128> mvo, as you wish, I'm fine doing the merge/test/upload if you approve the mps, but it you want to do that feel free as well ;-)
<mvo> seb128: ok, let me do it then
<seb128> mvo, danke
<willcooke> hey mzanetti
<mzanetti> hey willcooke
<mzanetti> so, seb128, soon we're getting the preliminary desktop thing in unity8 landed
<seb128> mzanetti, \o/
<mzanetti> and for now we'd require a gsettings override to activate it (until he have some sort of convergence rule thingie)
<mzanetti> what would you suggest where to put that?
<Laney> ubuntu-settings
<mzanetti> that's not installed on phone/tablet right?
<Laney> no there is -touch-settings for that
<Laney> (check seeded-in-ubuntu ubuntu-settings)
<larsu> hi Laney!
<Laney> what up larsu
<larsu> sencha vanilla
<larsu> it's awesome, who'd have thought
<Laney> english breakfast \m/ >_< \m/
<larsu> of course :P
<larsu> how are you?
<seb128> mzanetti, you want to know where to install the gsettings key?
<mzanetti> seb128: I'm currently searching launchpad for it, got lost in some Infinity OS Settings project :D
<mzanetti> seb128: so yeah, please tell me :)
<seb128> mzanetti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas I guess
<seb128> Laney, ubuntu(-touch)-settings is about defaults iirc?
<seb128> it doesn't have a schemas
<Laney> he asked for somewhere to put an override
<seb128> no he didn't
<seb128> oh
<seb128> or I misread
<seb128> mzanetti, is the key in e.g the unity8 schemas and you just want to override the value?
<mzanetti> seb128: ah wait, we have a key in unity8, given it's temporary for sure (convergence will work different)
<seb128> or do you look at where to define the key?
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> so what Laney said
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings
<Laney> apt-get source ubuntu-settings, look in debian/...override, should be obvious what to do but shout if not
<mzanetti> exactly, we just want to automatically enable the windowed mode if you run it from unity8-desktop-session-mir somehow
<seb128> that's not going to work for your case I think though
<larsu> mzanetti: how will convergence work?
 * larsu hates temporary solutions
<Laney> I think effectively everyone will have it installed, but you could otherwise have a new file in the session package which does this
<seb128> Laney, mzanetti, the issue is that desktop next has both ubuntu-settings and ubuntu-touch-settings installed
<seb128> so either we need to put an higher priority override in desktop
<Laney> why's that an issue?
<Laney> there will be one override
<seb128> it makes the behaviour a bit randomp
<Laney> don't understand
<mzanetti> seb128: I guess we're fine as long as the override is NOT installed on phone/tablet
<mzanetti> larsu: thsi should explain why we won't have a config value in the end: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1K1oV4vMc-FduKUNYYO62zPUCU5WMb74zjer8KzYzhLg/edit#slide=id.p
<seb128> Laney, I don't feel confident that we are not going to get ubuntu-settings installed on some tablet sort of installs at some point
<seb128> it feels hackish to depends on what packages are installed
<seb128> but at the same time having defaults for touch and non touch seems hackish as well
<seb128> so maybe it's ok as a temporary thing
<seb128> it would feel more robust if the session job was setting it
<larsu> won't we get different defaults depending on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP?
<mzanetti> seb128: yeah, I tend to agree
<larsu> could use the same mechanism for this
<seb128> larsu, the day we have that we can use them yes
<seb128> larsu, but we don't atm iirc
<larsu> seb128: I know... I reviewed desrt's patch again but he didn't reply yet (vacation and all)
<larsu> seb128: I'll annoy him about it again
<seb128> getting there :-)
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> you can override it in the desktop session package if you want, I don't think it really matters for some hack
<Laney> looking at $DESKTOP_SESSION would feel nicer to me
<larsu> where's the difference between the two?
<larsu> desktop_session and xdg_current_desktop
<Laney> DESKTOP_SESSION is just the name of the .session file
<Laney> it works now :-)
<mzanetti> can we have gsettings overrides at login based on such a env var?
<mzanetti> I'm asking for that because we'd like to be able to switch it at runtime
<larsu> Laney: oh right. Ya, this should have been finished a long time ago, but desrt and I shaved a yak...
<mzanetti> atm you can change the dconf key and it'll transform on the fly between the tablet looks and the desktop mode
<larsu> mzanetti: yes, that's the plan
<mzanetti> cool
<darkxst> mzanetti, its not possible to do per-session gsettings overrides, so they need to be done in code
<darkxst> it would certainly be useful though upstream don't seem to interested in the idea
<mzanetti> hmm
<mzanetti> so how are we going to proceed with this?
<darkxst> mzanetti, you need to write code to check the env var
<larsu> darkxst: we just talked about this, we want to add being being able to change defaults based on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<darkxst> larsu, that is not possible with gsettings overrides
<Laney> mzanetti: ubuntu-settings or a new override in the unity8-desktop-sesion
<larsu> darkxst: yes, this is why we want to add it...
<darkxst> larsu, add it to glib?
<larsu> darkxst: yes, where else?
<darkxst> bug 1222053
<ubot5> bug 1222053 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "per-session gsettings overrides" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222053
<larsu> darkxst: not sure why you linked to the bug?
<darkxst> larsu, between comment #1 and #2 it may be possible to load overrides by setting GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIR
<Laney> Pretty sure they have worked out how to do it upstream already, the aforementioned yak
<Laney> darkxst: I've got someone emailing me asking to update to evo 3.12.8 in gnome3-staging, you going to do that?
<darkxst> Laney, for which series?
<Laney> trusty
<darkxst> probably not, we only plan to support gnome3 ppa for the LTS
<Laney> I guess ricotz (never here when you want him)
<larsu> darkxst: not sure what the plan is, but probably not based on GSETTINGS_SCHEMA_DIRS
<larsu> darkxst: (I'm more involved in the yak-shaving part than the gsettings part)
 * Laney emailed ricotz instead
<darkxst> larsu, that is how shell extensions get their schemas
<larsu> ya, I know
<darkxst> and I haven't looked at this stuff in over a year, but seems it would probably be easy enough to do the same with overrides
<Laney> larsu: where are gnome module maintainers listed?
<larsu> Laney: good question... don't know
<Laney> hmm okay
<darkxst> Laney, in the doap file
<mitya57> Laney: would you mind if I upload my webkit ppc64el patch? I am not able to test it myself, and I don't have enough time if I also want that patch in Jessie.
<Laney> mitya57: Ah yeah, let's test that in the porter, shall we?
<Laney> Remind me of the bug #?
<mitya57> debian #762670 has all needed information
<ubot5> Debian bug 762670 in libjavascriptcoregtk-3.0-0 "libjavascriptcoregtk-3.0-0: crashes on ppc64el when building sphinx" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/762670
<Laney> You should go bug #debian-admin about gettin an account :-)
<mitya57> Asked them.
<Laney> build-deps installing
 * mitya57 hugs Laney
<Laney> mitya57: the patch on the upstream report doesn't apply
<Laney> fedora one does though
 * Laney tries that
<mitya57> Laney: oh yes, Fedora's one
 * Laney screams every time a program isn't installed
<Laney> 'kay, building, will get back to you in an hour or so
<Laney> ppc64el is fast
 * mitya57 refuses to believe that webkit can build in just an hour
<Laney> we'll see about that!
<seb128> Laney, do you remember why you did bump the kernel version in your most recent commit on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/installation-guide/ubuntu ?
<seb128> you wrote "Bump names for Utopic, including GNOME but not kernel"
<seb128> so you deliberately left it out, was that because the version was not decided yet when you did that?
<Laney> seb128: no I don't remember but it's probably that
<seb128> Laney, ok, thanks
<Laney> I don't know why I touched that
<Laney> maybe while patch piloting
<seb128> that's what I'm doing :p
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128!
<seb128> hey GunnarHj
<GunnarHj> seb128: I should have changed the status of that MP to "work in progress". Just did.
<seb128> GunnarHj, thanks!
<GunnarHj> seb128: But let me take this opportunity to ask you:
<GunnarHj> seb128: There is a pending lightdm MP which proposes that /usr/sbin/lightdm-session is run under bash. That allows for a better solution. Would you have any objections to running Xsession under bash?
<seb128> GunnarHj, no objection, I don't think the performance difference is going to be noticable and it seems more robust/easier code to maintain
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, thanks, then I'll get back with a revised GDM MP as soon as pitti has reviewed the new lightdm MP.
<seb128> ok, great
<Sweet5hark> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/libreoffice-l10n_4.3.3-0ubuntu2_source.changes http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/vivid/4.3.3/libreoffice_4.3.3-0ubuntu2_source.changes <- ubuntu revision bumped to ubuntu2 for vivid ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey btw, happy friday ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: Its Friday? Lets get trolling!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, seems like you missed the morning trolls? still have the afternoon to make up for it ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: now I know why you came back from vacation for this one day ;)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> Sweet5hark, uploaded
<seb128> on that note, time for some exercice before it gets dark out there
 * Laney shivers
<Laney> cold up here
 * ogra_ wonders if Laney moved to the US 
<Laney> mitya57: some link step is failing, blerg blergy blerg
<mitya57> Laney: what error message? it may be just OOM
<Laney> none, but no OOM in dmesg
<Laney> probably is something like that
 * Laney adds some linker flags
<Laney> If this fails I'll nab a silo
 * Laney uploads nautilus 3.14 to desktop ppa
<Laney> ah
<Laney> ENOSPC
<mitya57> If you upload it into a silo then I can add it to dependencies of my PPA and test Sphinx there.
 * mitya57 bbl
<Laney> I'm abusing people to clean up their home directories first
<Laney> where "abuse" is "ask really nicely"
<ricotz> Laney, hi, what will be the e-d-s version for the utopic upload? i assume 3.12.8-0ubuntu0.1??
<Laney> ricotz: probably
<Laney> if you use ubuntu0~stuff you'll be okay
<ricotz> ok, trying to preserve the upgrade path
<ricotz> 3.12.8-0ubuntu0.1~trusty1
<Laney> thanks for working on it
<ricotz> 0ubuntu0~ is problematic for internal deps iirc
<Laney> mitya57: you probably don't have a PPA that builds for ppc64el so I don't think you can test it there
<Laney> I can copy packages though
<axp_> Hi to everyone... is here someone who maintains/develop Ubuntu Software Center ?
<Laney> mitya57: okay ppa:ci-train-ppa-service/landing-005 keep an eye on that
<didrocks> axp_: hey, mvo did in the past, however there is no such much maintenance nowdays as we'll transition with unity8 to the click store
<Sweet5hark> seb128_: thanks
<seb128_> Sweet5hark, yw!
<Sweet5hark> as for "exercise before it gets dark" -- its so foggy here, one would run into trees even here ...
<Sweet5hark> s/here/in bright daylight/
<axp_> didrocks: mvo: I found a "unclear" screen about a package
<axp_> didrock: mvo: http://imgur.com/wWD5Akk
<seb128> hum
<seb128> mvo, having any issue with the software-properties changes/upload?
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: any update/feedback on bug 1389858 btw?
<ubot5> bug 1389858 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice calc 4.2.7-0ubuntu1 not updating references after sort" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389858
<Laney> ricotz: do you have a vcs for gnome3-staging updates?
<Laney> want to merge nautilus into ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> Laney, saw bug #1393252 ?
<ubot5> bug 1393252 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus 3.14 update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1393252
<Laney> seb128: nope!
<Laney> good stuff
<seb128> now you did then ;-)
<Laney> looks to be the same
<mvo> seb128: no, just busy, if it looks good to you, just upload
<seb128> mvo, I didn't look at it since you said you would ;-)
<seb128> no worry, there is no hurry
<seb128> I just don't want it to fall through the cracks
<seb128> I know how it is, friday, then on monday new week start with backlog and crazyness and nobody is going to have slot for that one anymore ;-)
<Laney> hmm, it has dialogs with headerbar
<seb128> :-/
<mvo> seb128: I merged it all, wrote a test
<seb128> mvo, thanks!
<mvo> seb128: I just upload a build that I need to wait on anyway
<mvo> seb128: so let me finish it, sorry again
<Laney> sword fight time?
<mvo> Laney: sword?!?
<seb128> mvo, no worry, thanks ;-)
<mvo> uploaded
<mvo> Laney: is rock climbing not dangerous enough anymore?
<Laney> mvo: https://xkcd.com/303/
<Laney> however, I'm now imagining a film scene
<Laney> sword fight while climbing some awesome route
<Laney> to rescue the president dangling from the top
<mvo> Laney: hahaha
<dednick> charles: hey. something seems to be off with the indicator-datetime translations
<dednick> charles: po files are all for old c code.
<seb128> dednick, what serie? example?
<dednick> seb128: lp:indicator-datetime. "./src/formatter-dekstop.cpp" has translatable strings but no translation entries exist in po files.
<seb128> dednick, I don't see that
<seb128> dednick, e.g https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/indicator-datetime/+pots/indicator-datetime/fr/10/+translate
<dednick> hm. thats weird. why aren't they in the .po files?
<dednick> in the source tree
<achiang> willcooke: feeling better today? :)
<willcooke> achiang, :) not really
<willcooke> should be sleeping, but ya know how it is
<willcooke> I'd end up on my laptop in bed anyway
<willcooke> so this is probably better
<achiang> heh
<willcooke> so how's things going out there in the real world ;)
<achiang> so i have this unity7 multi-monitor bug that seems trivially reproducible
<willcooke> yeah, I read some of the backlog from yesterday
<willcooke> its on bregma radar now I think?
<achiang> 14.04.1, turn on workspaces, use VGA for external display; then: open gnome-terminal on workspace in upper right on laptop screen. suspend machine. resume machine. gnome-terminal appears on external display
<achiang> out here in the real world, it's fun to use ubuntu to actually build other things :)
<achiang> except when i'm plagued by this paper cut on a daily basis ;)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I hear ya
<achiang> not sure if it's on bregma's radar; to be fair, i haven't filed a bug report
<achiang> but it seems strange that i'm the only one with this issue
<willcooke> yeah, I would have expected quite a lot of people to do that kind of thing
<willcooke> (plug/unplug monitors etc)
<achiang> in my particular case i'm not even unplugging anything
<Laney> larsu: construct-only properties and GtkBuilder, how do? you know?
<achiang> the vga cable stays plugged in during the suspend/resume
<willcooke> oh, yeah, sorry
<bregma> it's the same as plug/unplug because it takes so long in dog years for the monitor to be recognized
<seb128> dednick, the po in the source are not used/updated
<seb128> dednick, we export translations directly from launchpad to langpacks
<dednick> seb128: should probably be deleted in that case. it's confusing.
<seb128> dednick, we should maybe delete the old .po in the source to avoid confusio
<achiang> bregma: but if that's the case, why would windows appear on the slow-recognized display?
<achiang> you'd think they'd appear on the fast-recognized one
<seb128> dednick, yeah, talk to ted & charles about that I guess
<achiang> because that's the one that exists upon resume
<dednick> tedg: , charles: ^ :)
<bregma> achiang, I'm not saying it's not a bug, but it's related to physical monitor changes
<achiang> bregma: hm... is there a way to dump out names of open windows and their coordinates into a text file?
<achiang> bregma: that seems like a fair place to start filing a bug report
<tedg> Yeah, I think they should go.
<bregma> Trevinho, ^^
<tedg> I think it'd make indicator-datetime build like 10ns faster as well! ;-)
<Trevinho> achiang: well, you can use a script using wnckprop
<Trevinho> achiang: or... you install libxpathselect and use the autopitlo interface to get them
<Trevinho> (dbus interface)
<achiang> groan
<achiang> ok, here is an existing bug report that describes another issue i have: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/382056
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 382056 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Windows moved to wrong workspace after suspend/resume" [Low,New]
<seb128> hum, my latency to ubuntu.com sites is not good for some days
<seb128> is anybody else having similar issues?
<willcooke> seb128, had problems getting to answers. earlier
<willcooke> sorry, ask.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1342175 fixed with 3.3?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1342175 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Poor performance with find & replace with empty value on large data set" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> Sweet5hark, sorry, 4.3.3 I meant
<charles> dednick, +1 on what seb128 says, iiuc the .po files in the repo are leftovers from the tarball days
<charles> probably does make sense to remove those old .po files to avoid confusion
<Laney> right, happy weekend!
<Laney> mitya57: it built there, give me a package to upload and I'll do it some time this weekend
<Laney> byeeeeeeeee
<dobey> anyone have any idea why nautilus would not be drawing the background and won't open new windows?
<didrocks> and with this success (just a minor TODO for Monday \o/) /me waves good week-end
<dobey> guess i'll try to reboot and see if it fixes it
<ChrisTownsend> achiang: You still around?  I'd like to discuss you "moving windows" issue.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-22
<Alina-malina> can i install photoshop in qemu and run directly from there?
<mitya57> Laney: please try this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9173476/
<mitya57> Though anything else that loads a page with lots of javascript should be enough to check the fix.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-16
<hikiko> Hello !!
<pitti> Godo morning
<hikiko> good morning pitti
<Laney> hey hey
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<larsu> good morning!
<Laney> ahoy pitti, I'm good thanks!
<Laney> was at a party at the weekend with an Elvis impersonator and a (fake) casino
 * Laney ended with 15 extra fake dollars
<Laney> what about you?
<Laney> and hey larsu!!!!
<larsu> hi Laney! Sounds nice :)
<larsu> morning pitti and hikiko!
<pitti> Laney: hah, sounds fun! we had a nice weekend too; there was rather strong wind, I tried my new kite
<Laney> nice
<Laney> is it a stunt kite?
<hikiko> morning larsu Laney pitti all
<pitti> Laney: yes, but I'm not good enough yet for lots of stunts :)
<pitti> Laney: I have this one: http://www.lenkdrachenshop.com/hq-lenkdrachen-maestro-iii-r2f-drachen-kite-sport-freizeit-neu-2014.html
<Laney> hey hikiko
<Laney> good weekend (and larsu)?
<pitti> hey larsu, hello hikiko!
<Laney> pitti: fun! it was very windy here too, would have been interesting to fly a kite in it :P
<Laney> we have one like this http://www.skyhighkites.co.uk/shop/product/2486/HQ-Symphony-Beach-III-2,2M-Power-Kite.html
<larsu> Laney: yes! Fainas family and a friend were here. Loads of fun and *a lot* of vodka
<Laney> know some people who have a bigger one with four lines (instead of two), which are pretty powerful
<Laney> larsu: Ð·Ð° Ð²Ð°ÑÐµ Ð·Ð´Ð¾ÑÐ¾Ð²ÑÐµ!
<Laney> ask Faina if this is legit :P
 * Laney doesn't trust the internet
<pitti> Laney: normally you say "na" sdorowje, not "sa"
<mitya57> no, Ð·Ð° is legit for a toast :)
<larsu> Laney: already waiting for her reply ;)
<pitti> Laney: ah, they should be a lot more stable in the air and need less wind, but also slower, right?
<Laney> pitti: I've not tried one like yours before
<Laney> but you can float these box ones in place quite easily
<Laney> thanks mitya57 ;-)
<Laney> oh I also found a great sloe bush and got enough for 3l of gin :)
 * Laney just got reminded by seeing them in the freezer
<willcooke> mornign
<willcooke> urg
<willcooke> good start
<Laney> hi willcooke
<Laney> how's it going?
<willcooke> morning Laney
<larsu> happy Monday willcooke
<seb128> hey desktopers
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney larsu pitti
<larsu> bonjour seb128!
<larsu> how ws your weekend?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! Ã§a va ?
<seb128> great! (out of the news/events in Paris)
<pitti> seb128: et comment est ta famille ? vont-ils bons aprÃ¨s Paris ?
<seb128> pitti, oui, tout le monde que je connais pas bien, merci
<Laney> hey seb128!
<seb128> spent saturday afternoon at a friend, played some football table and had fun there
<seb128> and spent a quiet sunday with familly
<pitti> j'ai essayÃ© demander didrocks, mais il n'a pas encore repondÃ©
<seb128> willcooke, is didrocks supposed to be off today?
<pitti> yes, swap day
<seb128> he didn't say anything on friday
<pitti> as per calendar
<willcooke> yeah, swap
<seb128> k
<willcooke> oh, sorry just caught up
<seb128> pitti, where did you ping him? telegram?
<pitti> oui
<davidcalle> willcooke, scopes patches good to go
<davidcalle> Well, good for review at least
<davidcalle> Also, hi o/
<willcooke> davidcalle, thanks!  I saw your commits yesterday, thanks for working on that.  I'll poke the security team
<Trevinho> hi
<willcooke> morning Trevinho
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hey willcooke, seb128
<larsu> hi Trevinho!
<larsu> what's up?
<Trevinho> hi larsu...
<Trevinho> Whatttttt... There's a small bug in my LCD. In the space between the led light and the panel itself :o
<larsu> haha cool
<willcooke> Just got an SMS from didrocks
<seb128> willcooke, good
<willcooke> Trevinho, the curse of the moving comma
<willcooke> honestly, when I used to do IT support I have to see someone with a comma they couldn't delete
<willcooke> and it was a bug crawling around
<Trevinho> :D
<pitti> seb128: hah, il a repondÃ© maintenant, lui et sa famille vont biens
<seb128> pitti, super
<Trevinho> seb128: I've got a private mail from a guy saying that in u-s-d / upower that we ship there's no support for the keyboard backlight... Or better, it doesn't remember the previous settings.
<Trevinho> seb128: it seems the fix is in g-s-d 3.16, is there any plan to backport that?
<Trevinho> I guess there's a bug for that but I didn't search yet
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1510344 ?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1510344 in linux (Ubuntu) "Keyboard Backlight Turns on at boot" [Low,Confirmed]
<seb128> Trevinho, no current plan afaik
<seb128> but Laney seems to know more than me about that ;-)
<Trevinho> :)
<Laney> just saw the bug
<Trevinho> Laney: that bug seems somewhat related more to the kernel though... The boot side, not the suspension one
<seb128> I've no hardware to test on
<seb128> so not going to be me that work on it
<Laney> what does no support mean?
<Laney> it clearly does have some support
<Trevinho> So the thing is:
<Trevinho> you change the brightness level of the keyboard to a lower value -> suspend -> resume -> keyboard backlight is back to the maximum level
<Laney> if you know a fix then cherry pick it?
<Trevinho> Yeah, that's the thing, I asked if anyone knew the fix :)
 * Trevinho looks in git
<Trevinho> Laney, seb128: from a quick look it seems it's not just a commit... We mostly need to backport the whole power plugin as it has been changed a lot to work with newest upower (which seems to support this thing)
<Trevinho> the changes aren't small, but it would be worth trying IMHO... As being updated on power-related stuff is always nice
<seb128> Trevinho, we did backport the new upower work
<seb128> the api changed we couldn't stay on the old one
<Trevinho> mh weird... I made a diff between the two, and I see huge changes
<Trevinho> APIs are ok, I mean.. But there's no support for new features maybe?
<seb128> there was quite some refactoring, unsure about features
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/log/?qt=grep&q=power
<willcooke> seb128, Trevinho - any ideas why I don't see X here:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1477068/+nominate
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1477068 in unity (Ubuntu) "Activating an application through the indicators doesn't bring it to the foreground" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> Is it that Unity needs a special X branch set up>?
<Trevinho> seb128: it might be related to the change to  backlight_iface_emit_changed, which in our case only supports screen interface, not also keyboard one
<davmor2> willcooke: bluetooth does work out of the box on the xps 13, it kinda looks like it does but it seems to be missing some firmware who do I need to ping about that?
<Trevinho> willcooke: that's an old issue, and... well, there's no real fix for that. Indicators have to be fixed to launch apps with the timestamp of the click event
<Trevinho> willcooke: I fixed some of them in the past, but not everyone is feasible as it needs some X dependencies
<seb128> willcooke, those are unity project targets
<seb128> not Ubuntu ones
<willcooke> ah, right, thanks
<willcooke> davmor2, hrm.  Well, if it's firmware that we can get hold of an distribute I expect the foundations team will need to include it
<Laney> change the URL to /ubuntu/+source/unity...
<davmor2> willcooke: dell have a deb I think in the driver pack after a lot of digging, but I followed steps for converting the windows to an ubuntu compatible version
<Trevinho> seb128: this might be a start... https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/5614e2c7a275a092e1fcf43450d7f0c5730c14bd
<davmor2> willcooke: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13_(2015)
 * Trevinho has not such keyboard to test with, though...
<seb128> Trevinho, could be, but initial support was added in https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=ce295afb6dbd021d0375270bf2b4becacb9ef4db
<seb128> which is in our codebase
<seb128> so I guess it's mostly bugfixes
<seb128> but I don't have a such keyboard either
<seb128> so I can't test
 * Trevinho would backport the whole thing :P
<seb128> go for it
<seb128> we didn't hold on backporting for any special reason
<seb128> it's just that nobody put the work to do it
<seb128> also keep in mind that sometime the g-s-d changes imply g-c-c matchups and we can't update the frontend as easily since they completly changed the design/look compared to what we have
<willcooke> davmor2, Hrm.  Sounds to me like we'd need to get that firmware included in the linux-firmware package.
<davmor2> willcooke: it works perfectly once it is in place :)
<davmor2> willcooke: I'll file a bug for it then
<willcooke> da thanks
<willcooke> davmor2, TheMuso
<willcooke> argh
<willcooke> davmor2, thanks
<davmor2> tab doesn't work on words honest :)
<willcooke> :)  try telling my fingers that
<davmor2> willcooke: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware/+bug/1516580
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1516580 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu) "Bluetooth firmware for dell xps 13" [High,New]
<willcooke> thx davmor2
<Trevinho> hikiko: can you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/compiz/scale-multimonitor-workarea/+merge/277561 ?
<hikiko> Trevinho: sure in a while
<hikiko> Trevinho, approved :D
<desrt> hello desktop world
<hikiko> Hello desrt
<desrt> happy monday, hikiko
<hikiko> Happy Monday desrt
 * desrt looks at g+ page for event she is planning tomorrow
<desrt> 5 'yes', 11 'maybe'
<desrt> gonna be fun making the restaurant reservation based on that...
<hikiko> What's tomorrow ?
<desrt> i'd prefer not to discuss it.  it's a secret meeting.
<desrt> but here's a hint: it's something blue
<larsu> she said, after bringing it up
<larsu> morning desrt
<desrt> morning :D
<andyrock> "morning"
<andyrock> :D
<qengho> Oh Monday, thoust vex me.
<larsu> hi andyrock and qengho
<willcooke> hey qengho andyrock
<willcooke> qengho, the icon issues have gone away.  But the "opening a URL from xchat" issue remains.  I will do more testing though to make sure it's not me
<qengho> willcooke: Hrm. Thanks.
<willcooke> popping out to collect my car from the garage - bbiab
<attente> any way to suppress -Werror=unused-parameter when packaging a qmake project?
<larsu> attente: add -Wnounused-parameter to CFLAGS?
<larsu> QMAKE_CXXFLAGS even :(
<larsu> bah, QMAKE_CFLAGS
<qengho> willcooke: "2015-09-26 Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org> * xdg-mime: Check ~/.config/mimeapps.list instead of ~/.[local/share]/applications/mimeapps.list when looking for default application."   Well! Okay then. Found your xchat/firefox bug.
<attente> larsu: ah, ok, i'll try those, thanks
<larsu> attente: you can also disable them with a pragma, but that's ugly I think
<attente> larsu: yeah. it's coming from generated code (gdbus-codegen). i might try to fix that upstream
<willcooke> qengho, \o/
<larsu> Laney: I dug a bit deeper on the black flicker issue this afternoon. We need the revert, but slightly amended to also work for windows with client side decorations (this was the difference that caused me to see the bug in 3.16.0 as well)
<larsu> Laney: but I doubt this will be accepted upstream - the function is deprecated because the frame sync protocol seems to be considered a dependency of gtk now
<Laney> larsu: all of these https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/log/?h=gtk-3-18&qt=grep&q=don't+call+gtk_style_context ?
<larsu> Laney: I'm unsure, but the flickering should only be a problem on top-level windows
<Laney> worth talking to cosimoc?
<larsu> have you noticed any problems with the other widgets?
<larsu> not unless we have a prolem
<larsu> *problem
<larsu> Trevinho: have you ever thought about implementing that frame sync thing in compiz? I guess it's quite hard because it touches lots of things?
<Laney> I mean, presumably this commit was done for some reason
<Laney> not that the commit message is clear
<larsu> which commit?
<Laney> the one you want to revert
<larsu> yes, the function is deprecated
<larsu> widgets are supposed to draw their own background
<larsu> which happens too late on compiz, because it doesn't wait for the signal from gtk that the frame is done
<larsu> calling set_background() sets the background color of the x window
<larsu> so we see an incomplete frame, but because the color is the same as the background color, it's not as noticable
<Laney> I see
<Laney> thanks for the info
<larsu> did you already upload the revert?
<Laney> want to hear from Trevinho about the frame sync stuff, that would be nicer depending on how bad it would be to do
<Laney> no
<Laney> I'm not that fast anyway /o\
<larsu> that's good - I'll propose a patch in a bit that makes it work for csd windows as well
<Laney> not going to be for today at any rate
<Laney> but still want to hear about fixing it properly
<larsu> ya, of course
<Laney> thanks for the investigation!
<larsu> :)
<larsu> Laney: proposed at https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gtk/remove-black-flicker/+merge/277595
<Trevinho> larsu: mh, sorry I was otp...
<Trevinho> larsu: I saw it at the time I was looking at the mir gdk backend, but I didn't know it was in X as well
<larsu> Trevinho: it has been for a couple of years :)
<seb128> back!
<willcooke> calling it a day
<willcooke> g'night all
 * qengho afk.
<n8s> hi all
<n8s> this may be tricky... but i have to ask
<n8s> i have a laptop fine-tuned with all the apps and settings to my liking. it has been a pita to set it up. Now im ready to make the move on my desktop to ubuntu and say byebye to windows 10, Â¿is there any way to "clone" the settings and installed packages automagically?
<sarnold> n8s: dpkg --get-selections and --set-selections may be able to do the packages for you, though actually getting apt to follow those directions may be more work; I'm just content to apt-get install the packages I need when I need them, though, to avoid installing and updating software I don't use often..
<sarnold> n8s: you can copy your home directory over, that ought to be a good starting point for most user-facing programs; i'd cherry pick files from /etc/ as needed for the system-wide configurations
<sarnold> n8s: many people store their /etc and dotfiles in git or something similar, see etckeeper for a quick intro there
<n8s> thank for pointing me that, sounds interesting
<n8s> however if there is nothing that "migrates" it automatically, i guess i will do what you said first and make it work as i need it
<n8s> howewer... i find surprising that ubuntu lacks an utility for doing this. i understand that this can be perfectly done with CLI+patience combo, but some user friendly solution would be awe
<n8s> anyway, thanks a lot sarnold
<sarnold> n8s: if you're installing dozens to thousands of machines, there's options that are probably worth exploring :)
<sarnold> n8s: but for two systems, there's not much pre-built
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-17
<pitti> Godo morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! *accolade*
 * didrocks donne une accolade en retour Ã  pitti
<pitti> didrocks: as-tu eu un bon long week-end ?
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<didrocks> pitti: "bon", difficile de le qualifier ainsi avec les Ã©vÃ¨nements, mais long, ouiâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: btw, sorry for not answering you right away on telegram, I didn't get any notification. I think the issue is the new "samsung optimizer" that was installed by default with OTA 5.1 and kills unused background service
<pitti> didrocks: ah, pas de problÃ¨me -- j'Ã©tais juste un peu inquiet
<didrocks> pitti: dÃ©solÃ©, je vais blacklister telegram je pense pour que samsung ne "l'optimise" pas :)
<pitti> didrocks: wow, we install that by default? that sounds a bit overzealous
<pitti> sounds a bit like the Android "greenify"; that's able to kill whatsapp and friends as well, but needs this google framework for push notifications
<didrocks> pitti: I mean, samsung does on their galaxy S6
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I thought that telegram was using push notification and that this optimization wouldn't matter (it doesn't for instance for emails and hangouts), but maybe telegram doesn'tâ¦
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> good morning larsu
<larsu> hey didrocks! Ãa va?
<didrocks> larsu: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<larsu> Ã§a va bien, merci
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> morning seb128! Good thanks! You?
<seb128> great, thanks!
<Trevinho> Morning
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<larsu> morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> Hi seb128 larsu
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> didrocks: hey
<pitti> hey larsu
<pitti> hey Trevinho
<pitti> hm, so unity or something else regressed un-maximizing a window
<pitti> maximize a window, or fullscreen it (F11), then unmaximize again, and it still uses the whole desktop size
<pitti> instead of being restored to its original size
<pitti> do you guys see this as well?
<larsu> guten morgen pitti!
<pitti> actually, I only see this with gnome-terminal
<larsu> ya, gnome-terminal does all kinds of sizing tricks
<larsu> sigh
<Trevinho> pitti: hi
<Trevinho> pitti: gnome terminal has some other issues related to positioning too
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<seb128> oh, it's that day
<seb128> hey willcooke
 * didrocks gets off his lawn then :p
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> yo
<willcooke> what up
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hi willcooke, wb didrocks!
<Laney> good long weekend?
<larsu> morning willcooke & Laney!
<didrocks> Laney: long weekend indeed, "good", well, was hard to truly rejoice for the 40 years of my brother given the context
<didrocks> how was yours?
<seb128> hey Laney
 * willcooke discovers gtk3-widget-factory 
<seb128> our new theme master ;-)
<willcooke> it's taking me a loooooong time
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> didrocks: :/ but mine was good, went to a party down in norwich
<Laney> hey seb128
<pitti> hey Laney!
<didrocks> seb128: how is your xenial experience so far?
<seb128> good
<didrocks> ok, upgrading then, it will all be your fault! :)
<seb128> well, less good since the new GTK
<didrocks> ah ?
<seb128> but don't stop on that, it doesn't bother others as much it seems
<seb128> my laptop is old and slower than most
<didrocks> perf regression or anything else?
<seb128> didrocks, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtk.ogv
<seb128> it's new gtk then old one
<pitti> didrocks: by and large okay; some GTK regressions (some mild flickering, weird dialog layouts), but that's about it
<pitti> didrocks: do it! :-)
<Laney> hey pitti
<didrocks> seb128: ah indeed, quite annoying visually on the long term I guess, but yeah, not blocking
<seb128> right
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'll add you to the list of people to look after if things aren't smoothly ;)
<seb128> well if it's your work box the visual annoyance can make your days less good
<seb128> so your call
<seb128> you can also update and pin back old gtk
 * pitti s'enfuit trÃ¨s rapid
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, it's my work box, but yeah, pinning back old gtk is an option
<seb128> see how much that bothers you firsyt
<seb128> some people don't even notice it
<seb128> so it might be good ;-)
<pitti> "trÃ¨s vite", non? (I keep mixing up the adjective and adverb)
<didrocks> "trÃ¨s vite" yeah ;)
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> the list of new packages to install is a little bit too long/large to my taste
 * didrocks looks
<pitti> I don't find the flickering that bothersome TBH -- if seb128 hadn't pointed it out I probably wouldn't even have noticed
<seb128> pitti, as said my laptop is old/slow so it might be more noticable than on the new configs most people have
<pitti> but then again it doesn't happen on terminals, and that's what I'm mostly using
<pitti> Laney: sorry for the autopkgtest worker spam
<Laney> we have a revert for the flickering thing
<pitti> Laney: bos01 is behind on importing cloud images, so it still didn't get the new cloud-init
<Laney> might include it in 3.18.5 later
<pitti> Laney: TL;DR: on it
<seb128> Laney, upload!
<Laney> pitti: ah right, I was wondering
<seb128> great :-)
<Laney> still want Trevinho to comment on implementing the frame clock
<Laney> he didn't really say anything when we asked yesterday
<Laney> (hi Trevinho!!!!)
<seb128> I bet it's not going to be trivial
<seb128> or it would have been done
<seb128> but let's see :-)
<Laney> good job we don't only do trivial work
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> that's not what I meant...
<seb128> but I wouldn't block on that to be done and landing to "fix" gtk
<seb128> we can add the revert and drop it later
<Laney> wasn't going to, that's why I said I would probably upload it
<Laney> it sounded a bit like "will be hard, let's not do it"
<seb128> no, "let's not block on it"
<Laney> ok ;-)
<seb128> your "waiting for Trevinho to reply" was sounding bit like "uploaded is blocked on that to be get an answer"
<seb128> anyway we are good
<seb128> waiting for Trevinho to reply in any case ;-)
<Laney> hey didrocks, want to help me with some python stuff? :) :) :) :)
<didrocks> Laney: sure!
<didrocks> bring it on!
<Laney> yay
<Laney> seeing something like this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24799146/use-multiprocessing-process-inside-a-script-installed-by-setuptools
<Laney> when trying to use the appstream generator from git
<Laney> installed into a virtualenv
 * Laney lets you on the machine
<didrocks> Laney: so, it's not related to setuptools, right? Rather multiprocess
<Laney> dunno what the real problem is
<Laney> didrocks: ssh ubuntu@10.55.60.155
<Laney> (on VPN)
<didrocks> on it!
<didrocks> so, what command is triggering the stacktrace?
<Laney> ok, it works when I run the script directly
<Laney> so something in the virtualenv breaks it
<didrocks> ok
<Laney> alright, source appstream/bin/activate
<didrocks> ah, appstream is the virtualenv
<didrocks> sourced
<Laney> cd dep11; dep11-generator process . xenial
<Laney> takes 20 seconds or so
<didrocks> was just what I was going to ask :p
<didrocks> ok, got the stack
<Laney> code is in ~/appstream-dep11
<Laney> I just did: python3 setup.py build && python3 setup.py install to install it into that virtualenv
<Laney> dunno if that is right
<didrocks> Laney: you enabled system package in your virtualenv, right?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> --site-packages or something
<didrocks> as I see a mix of system libs and some from virtualenv
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> Laney: ok, will have a look (leaving in 5-10 minutes for a run to meet Julie at the park)
<didrocks> Laney: no worry if I handle that after it?
<Laney> ok
<Laney> thanks!
<didrocks> Laney: can I install some packages on the system?
<didrocks> yw ;)
<didrocks> like ipython
<Laney> yeah
<didrocks> great!
<Laney> I will write a charm for it at some point I guess
<Laney> but good to be using it out of git
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<Laney> since ximion did some improvements
<Laney> maybe I can just build and run it out of the tree directly?
<didrocks> Laney: I can have a look at this as well if you wish (after debugging)
<Laney> this avoids the traceback completely
<Laney> anyway, go run
<didrocks> Laney: better to understand it still
<didrocks> so that you can work from git
<pitti> didrocks: hah, just saw fsckd in action in the IMPI console on the data center's armhf test box :)
<darkxst> hey Laney, didrocks pitti
<andyrock> monring all
<Laney> hi darkxst and andyrock
 * darkxst spent the day in court, and walked out with a settlement ;) 
<Laney> a good one?
<darkxst> 30% of a convoluted calculation, which excluded her previous ex's settlement
<darkxst> and given its all over now, I am happy with that
<darkxst> pretty sure she is sitting at home less happy, they came to court adament the case would just be thrown out]\
<Laney> time to move on!
<darkxst> Laney, yep!
<darkxst> Laney, seb128 willcooke, is there any actual plan for switching over to gnome-software? like packagekit transition, switching to apt-cc or adapting aptdaemon to cope, and then the DEP 11 metadata
<darkxst> and that is all before you get to writing your plugins for reviews and what not
<Laney> robert_ancell is mostly working on that stuff
<Laney> I've been playing with the extractor
<Laney> in a bit http://162.213.34.169/html/ will stop being 404
<larsu> still 404
<larsu> still 404
<Laney> f5 f5 f5 f5 f5
 * larsu prefers Ctrl+R for some reason
<Laney> me too actually
<larsu> still 404
<darkxst> Laney, your not exactly filling me with confidence there!
<larsu> Laney: hi!
<Laney> darkxst: ?
<darkxst> packagekit transition is painful at best
<Laney> I guess what's useful for you to know is
<Laney> if you want to help out, talk to Robert
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, excellent! :)
<darkxst> ok, so there is no plan then? ;)
<didrocks> hey darkxst
<Laney> what do you want?
<Laney> the plan is to work on it until it works
<Laney> I'm not doing it myself atm so I can't give more precise details
 * didrocks has some pain in the arm due to almost falling off the bike :/
<darkxst> Laney, not personally directed at you, but I do wonder if another unachievable goal has been ticked off the list
<Laney> let's hope not
<Laney> darkxst: I just made https://trello.com/b/o3AB123B/gnome-software
<Laney> will pass it on to track the task
<Laney> HTH!
<darkxst> Laney, you mean I have to sign up for another website ;(
<Laney> only if you want to change it
<pitti> Laney: reviewed your britney branch
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> going to make tea before crying at it :)
 * pitti goes to grab lunch too
<seb128> back from lunch
<seb128> speaking of packagekit doko seems to ignore me
<seb128> I'm going to delete 1.0 again from proposed
<Laney> WOAH
<Laney> why do I have a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE tab bar in gnome-terminal?
<didrocks> Laney: because it's an important one, smart system! :)
<Laney> that's even on my non hidpi system
<Laney> is it just me that thinks it's big?
<willcooke> Laney, yeah it is too big.
<Laney> it's probably that + icon making it big
<willcooke> Laney, it doesn't seem to inherit the standard tabs styling so will likely need an app specific style
<willcooke> I can probably fix it
<willcooke> it's on my list
<willcooke> oh, which reminds me - larsu I never did get the inspector to work with terminal.  Any ideas?
<Laney> oh I guess not
<Laney> not the icon, that is
<Laney> so maybe they can be themed
<willcooke> yeah, I think it's probably padding
<Laney> leaving it with you
 * Laney will stop noticing
 * Laney "OMG THE TAB BAR IS SO THIN NOW"
<willcooke> :)
<popey> Sweet5hark1, is there a way to stop LOK creating lock files? setting 'SAL_ENABLE_FILE_LOCKING' to 0 doesn't seem to do it?
<popey> Sweet5hark1, found an alternative option which works http://askubuntu.com/a/606460/612
<didrocks> Laney: ok, I reduced it and found the cause (but not have an explanation yet)
<Laney> go didrocks!
<Laney> don't interrupt my existing run please ;-)
<Laney> (in screen)
<didrocks> Laney: I'm making script modification, but as your one is already running, that should be all right :)
<Laney> make a copy? :P
<didrocks> (hum, I don't see a screen running)
<didrocks> Laney: the issue is the original script
<didrocks> like the wrapper
<didrocks> so I have to register a new one
<didrocks> Laney: is the wrapper in git?
<Laney> what's the wrapper?
<didrocks> /home/ubuntu/appstream/bin/dep11-generator
<Laney> yes
<didrocks> urgh
<didrocks> normally, those kind of things are generated
<Laney> oh wait
<Laney> you mean the thing that calls some other thing
<didrocks> yeah, the entry point if you prefer
<Laney> that was generated
<didrocks> ok
<Laney> look at ~/appstrem-dep11/
<didrocks> ok, that's the git?
<Laney> ye
<didrocks> this generated one is weird, quite different from usual ones
<didrocks> let me try with one generated here with 3.4
<didrocks> I bet that's what doesn't set __spec__
<didrocks> Laney: ok, found a way to make it work I think
<didrocks> so, the real issue is that the old scripts that setuptools is generating is using directly __import__, which doesn't set new features in python3.4 like __spec__
<didrocks> __spec__ is needed on the main module when initiliazing first pool of multiprocessing in one and only one case: if you multiprocessing.set_start_method('forkserver')
<didrocks> (which is the case ofc here)
<didrocks> so, the real issue is the way setuptools is doing this __import__()
<didrocks> it's not the case with a better/newer way of initiliazing those scripts
<didrocks> using entrypoints
<didrocks> (I emulated using entrypoints on the machine's install to confirm)
<desrt> moin moin
<didrocks> that means as well that I need to change the way I guess Matthias is generating the executable script for his own testing purpose
<didrocks> (I guess doing something like what I do in ubuntu make)
<didrocks> hey desrt
<didrocks> and then, load_entry_points is DTRT for initiliazing a module
<Laney> hey desrt!
<didrocks> Laney: so, happy to work on a branch to change that upstream if you agree, but I wouldn't mind before proposing this for review that we try to do a fresh install (if you don't mind) on the server
<didrocks> (just a new virtualenv should be enough)
<desrt> good morning Laney, didrocks (and others)
<Laney> didrocks: ok, let my current run finish though please
<Laney> didrocks: or git clone appstream-dep11 appstream-dep11-didrocks and work from that
<Laney> should be isolated then
<didrocks> Laney: I don't see any screen process running though, is that expected?
<seb128> hey desrt
<Laney> didrocks: WEIRD
<Laney> it is running though, try screen -r
<desrt> seb128: good morning
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, right, ps aux | grep screen doesn't return anything, weird
<seb128> desrt, how was your secret blue meeting? ;-)
<Laney> how strange
<Laney> anyway, if you work from a clone it'll be fine
<Laney> thx for the knowledge!
<didrocks> Laney: any public git branch I could fork? that would be easier than working on the machine directly
<desrt> seb128: didn't happen yet :)
<didrocks> Laney: yw!
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> desrt, oh ok, I though it was for yesterday ;-)
 * didrocks likes the confort of his dev setup :p
<Laney> it's on github
<Laney> ximion/appstream-dep11?
<desrt> seb128: but since you ask, i pulled a jarvis virus during my morning hack run, so that's nice  :)
<didrocks> Laney: thanks!
 * didrocks clicked "fork"
<Laney> ubuntu@appstream:~/appstream-dep11$ git config --get remote.origin.url
<Laney> https://github.com/ximion/appstream-dep11.git
<didrocks> Laney: ok, let's see once this run finishes, I shouldn't be too long to have something pushed on github
 * Laney speed builds gtk to upload before lunch
<seb128> desrt, starting the day with some activity, nice!
<Laney> stupid early team meeting, stupid GMT
<desrt> ya... i go for a morning walk now :)
<desrt> definitely slowed down though... no all-night 6-hour hack runs... i just crossed 400km, and the last 100km was definitely slower than the ones before.
<didrocks> Laney: missed lunch?
<Laney> I usually have it quite late
 * desrt digs in to vi
<Laney> meh, I'll upload this after getting back
<Laney> bye!
<didrocks> enjoy your lunch!
<seb128> Laney, have fun
<didrocks> Laney: seems to finish on:
<didrocks> rsync: link_stat "/home/ubuntu/dep11/log" failed: No such file or directory (2)
<didrocks> rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1183) [sender=3.1.1]
<didrocks> on another note, my branch is up on github
<didrocks> (https://github.com/didrocks/appstream-dep11/tree/setuptools_scripts)
<qengho> Oh man, this is too early for a meeting.
<seb128> what time is it in your tz now?
<qengho> seb128: It's 10:23. I just mean I'm unprepared.
<seb128> ah
<seb128> well you are not first in the list
<seb128> do it the Laney way, just write your summary while others are going ;-)
<Laney> you don't know I do that!
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 17 15:30:01 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong (out?), happyaron(out?), hikiko(hols), laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<willcooke> hi all
<desrt> o/
<seb128> hey
<andyrock> \o
<dgadomski> hey
<seb128> Laney, did you just admit? ;-)
<larsu> hey!
<Trevinho> Heeeeeej!
<attente> o/
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: andyrock
<didrocks> hey
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> nothing much to say: basically going through all the unity MP's
<FJKong> hey
<andyrock> I'm doing the last couple of reviews right now
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<andyrock> pretty short ones so should take one hour
<andyrock> and I can start coding again \o/
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> thanks andyrock, it's an important task, so thanks for sticking at it
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: attente
<attente> more upstream fixes to maliit-framework and maliit-input-context-gtk
<attente> spent some time trying to track down the double tapping issue, the problem is in ubuntu-keyboard
<attente> starting packaging the new maliit release, but tests are failing...
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente, good wok on Maliit
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> hi
<desrt> (slightly) short week last week
<desrt> usual bug stuff, pushed some patches
<desrt> back to working on inotify again :)
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey, I continued to work on issues from last week:
<dgadomski> * offered fix for bug #1337873 upstream, got positive feedback, though they ask for refactoring of the whole affected area. Everything is waiting for upstream action at: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92886. I will prepare a debdiff for xenial as soon as this is accepted
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 92886 in daemon "PolkitAgentSession incorrectly handles multiline PAM_TEXT_INFO output" [Normal,New]
<ubot5> bug 1337873 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Vivid) "Precise, Trusty, Utopic - ifupdown initialization problems caused by race condition" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337873
<dgadomski> ehm... that is bug #1510824
<ubot5> bug 1510824 in PolicyKit "PolkitAgentSession incorrectly handles multiline output (as observed with pam_vas)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510824
<dgadomski> * testing fix for bug #1337873 - working fine so far
<dgadomski> * didn't have time to finish the wiki page about debugging polkit, but I will share the link and will appreciate any feedback as soon as it's done.
<dgadomski> * didn't have time to finish the wiki page about debugging polkit, but I will share the link and will appreciate any feedback as soon as it's done.
<dgadomski> EOF
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thank you
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Short week (3 days only).
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - released Ubuntu Make 15.11.1, publish on various social media + blog post.
<didrocks> - tweaked the release script.
<didrocks> - add and merge and Twine game editor support.
<didrocks> - worked on atom.io integration, changed upstream build tool support to publish some archive publication and CI integration. This is pending review from the github's team.
<didrocks> - ensure --help always returned the desired help (global, category or framework). Add tests for those.
<didrocks> - fix some i18n bugs and be more relient against user setup. Fixed as well pt_BR translations.
<didrocks> - run and test to make the test running environment more independant of user setup (like language). Running that for large tests.
<didrocks> - explored genymotion integration for Android vm testing.
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
<Laney> NO
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: FJKong
<Laney> he also helped me!
<FJKong> 1 debug one skin problem report by user
<FJKong> 2 update code
<FJKong> add auto start to pinyin search
<FJKong> for primary user they can use gui tools to setup task
<FJKong> 3 go to hospital
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> how's the wrist?
<FJKong> better
<FJKong> thanks
<larsu> ouch. get better
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaro1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: happyaro1
<willcooke> timeout set
<desrt> *tick* *tick* *tick*
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> oops
<Laney> â¢ Very many uploads and build fixes for the latest mega transition, use seb128-as-a-shell to remove some stuff that was too hard/broken to fix (thanks!)
<Laney> â¢ Seed update from sprint
<Laney> â¢ gtk 3.18.4 and 3.18.5 update (incl window drawing fix from larsu, woo!)
<Laney> â¢ appstream extractor: get working with a git checkout (instead of package), ping didrocks about some bug who is in the middle of assisting (thanks to you too!) but workaround it in the meantime
<Laney> â¢ set up a trello board for gnome-software https://trello.com/b/o3AB123B/gnome-software (willcooke - can you / should I mail around to get people to use it?)
<Laney> â¢ eyes tired of packages, work on an autopkgtest-britney fix to not block packages on tests if they have never passed anyway, got review comments to address soon
<Laney> â¢ misc: off friday
<Laney> à¹
<willcooke> @ trello board.  Sure, I will email cos I want to see if we should create another more general one.
<meetingology> willcooke: Error: "trello" is not a valid command.
<larsu> more trello boards!
<willcooke> thanks Laney
 * larsu turns down the sarcasm
<willcooke> #topic larsu
<Laney> ...
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> - tested and reviewed smcv's D-Bus patches
<larsu> - fixed icon name lookup order in my notify-osd patch from a couple of weeks back
<larsu> - investigated and found a workaround for the black window flicker issue on compiz
<larsu> - look into the gnome-screenshot crash that was *apparently* caused by my hidpi fix
<larsu> - slow progress on geonames localization
<larsu> </larsu>
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<seb128> larsu, the screenshot one was not?
<larsu> seb128: ya it was - just joking ;)
<seb128> (we blocked the GTK SRU on a potential regression)
<seb128> k
 * larsu will fix that nxt
<willcooke> I tired many things from the internet to get gnome-terminal to show the inspector, but to no avail.
<seb128> if you have a follow up fix please let me know
<seb128> so we can unblock GTK
<larsu> yep
<seb128> which also includes the tooltip corner thing
<larsu> willcooke: compile it from source with some debug flag set
<larsu> dunno how else it would work
<larsu> I wonder what they're doing to break this
<willcooke> internet says you should be able to set an env var and then it shows up in the help menu, but no.  Oki, I will probably need a hand to get it to compile.  But I'll finish the other stuff first.
<willcooke> no immediate urgency on that I think
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * new Cr upstream. fixing two new bugs before release.
<qengho> * merging xdg-utils from Debian.
<qengho> * updating Cr packaging for another format.
<qengho> EOF
<qengho> Also,
<qengho> * laptop is haunted.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ (4 days week, armistice day holiday)
<seb128> â¢ debugged/fixed guest session not working in xenial
<seb128> â¢ helped on xenial transitions (libimobiledevice, glew)
<seb128> â¢ continued on desktop merges&updates
<seb128> â¢ bugs/errors reviews
<seb128> â¢ some NEW reviews
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> whops, /me is unprepped please sip me to last
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Finally got the Orca gsettings backend work done, and posted on the Orca mailing list to get communit feedback, still got things to fix, and got to optimize code.
<willcooke> * Upgraded to Xenial. Nothing to report so far, but saw a pulse bug filed that needs investigating.
<willcooke> * Starting to look at updating Alsa to 1.1.0, both in Debian and in Xenial.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Lots of communication with the guy from the printer manufacturer
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Lots of improvements on managing the two or more USB communication channels and on handling delayed answers on USB and timeouts.
<tkamppeter> - I did not hear about any progress on the phone's print dialog. Did there happen anything?
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> tkamppeter, did you have your meeting with design yet?
<willcooke> actually, let's pick this up in our 1:1 then we can work out what the next steps are
<tkamppeter> willcooke, no, sometimes I tried to communicate with mpt, but did not get answers.
<willcooke> oki, I'll speak to design and get something sorted
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Checked u-s-d keyboard backlight issues
<Trevinho> Â· Did some study and tests on compiz frame synchronization (http://fishsoup.net/misc/wm-spec-synchronization.html)
<Trevinho> Â· Various reviews, including the new lockscreen shield for Ubuntu Kylin
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed issue with scale when using launcher in multi-monitor.
<Trevinho> Â· Improved unity spread to show up new windows when they are opened
<Trevinho> î¿î¿î¿
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, what's the output of the frame sync study?
<seb128> would be easy to do?
<Trevinho> seb128: well, it would take some weeks I think
<Trevinho> seb128: not that easy... Neither too hard, but it takes some time
<seb128> right, I guess somebody needs to weight the priority and if it's worth that time investment
<Trevinho> It depends what could really be the benefits...
<seb128> one job for willcooke ;-)
<willcooke> sure, can someone explain the back story to me off line?
<seb128> we can discuss it after the meeting I guess
<willcooke> oki
<willcooke> wfm
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> No update this week.
<willcooke> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: Any Other Business
<willcooke> didrocks has offered to run a LP training course :)
<seb128> willcooke, you should add yourself to the topics ;-)
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> so you could list the nice themes fixes coming ;-)
<willcooke> oh, yeah I guess - let's do that...
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: willcooke
<willcooke> Triage rls-x-incoming.  Slow going but got about half done yesterday.  More tomorrow
<willcooke> Learning about gtk themeing.  Fix one thing, break another
<willcooke> I will try to get that all wrapped up in to an MP before too long
<willcooke> Meetings with exec about things.  More details to follow shortly once everything is confirmed.
<desrt> sprint things? =)
<willcooke> There will be a sprint in April, maybe in Prague
<desrt> sounds fun
<willcooke> trying to sort an intermediate sprint around GSC
<willcooke> Hr things...
<larsu> gsc?
<Laney> ...
<willcooke> You have to write some career plans and such.  I will send proper details over email
<willcooke> Laney, Gnome Software Center
<larsu> Laney: ?
<larsu> ah
<larsu> that's spelled g-c-s *cough* :D
<larsu> *g-s-c
<Laney> gnome-software
<Laney> I don't think it actually has centre in the name
<larsu> indeed
<willcooke> ah
<seb128> g-s
<larsu> the binary doesn't at least
<larsu> that's like gnome shell
<seb128> gnome-screensaver/shell/software
<seb128> right :p
<desrt> -session in my mind :)
<larsu> gnome-settings
<willcooke> oki, back to...
<seb128> that's why they should stop the gnome- nonsense, just call it "software" :p
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> easy to google as well
<larsu> seb128: "files"
<Laney> gnome-sudoku
<willcooke> didrocks, tell us about your lp training...
<seb128> LP? like launchpad?
<Laney> gnome-screenshot
<seb128> any specific part? bugs? translations?
 * Sweet5hark1 wonders if "career plans" needs to include "will have report ready for the team meeting"  ...
<didrocks> hum, wasn't planned to write anything about it, thanks for warning me in advance willcooke :p
<seb128> bzr!
<willcooke> geez
<Laney> gnome-system-log
<Laney> this is a fun game
<didrocks> basically, I noticed that some of us don't know how to use LP properly
<Laney> I guess that would be g-s-l though
<seb128> Laney, we got it, stop now :Ã 
<seb128> :)
<Laney> hahahaHAHAHA sorry
<didrocks> I quite regularly get some questions :)
 * Laney thinks he is funnier than he really is
<seb128> oh?
<didrocks> like where are packages
<didrocks> what is published where
<didrocks> ofc, not from old distro guys ;)
<didrocks> I think maybe having a short 1h LP presentation for people interested could be of use
<didrocks> and make everyone not knowing how really LP works could be useful
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> (so upstream/downstream bug tasks, nominate for release, different ubuntu gates and processes like FF, how to get binaries from distros, ppa, debug symbolsâ¦)
<desrt> "<didrocks> basically, I noticed that some of us don't know how to use LP properly"
<didrocks> oh, and as well CI Train
<desrt> quote of the year
<didrocks> desrt: fortunately, we are near the end of year ;)
<didrocks> so yeah, we should organize that. I think people interested, think about it and just o/ in the next meeting, wdyt willcooke?
<Sweet5hark1> (the obvious followup question would be: if we dont know that, does anybody?)
<desrt> i'm definitely curious.  i could use to improve my LP-fu
 * didrocks notes desrt then
<Laney> teach me all about the translations component
<willcooke> great, we can record it and I'll write up notes for the wiki as well
<desrt> i'd also be sort of interrested in more general releasey/uploady-type topics
<didrocks> Laney: nooooooooooo, you are on the blacklist because you will ask about things I obviously don't know :p
<desrt> not super-useful to my work, but it's all a bit of mystery to me now and it can't hurt to know more
<didrocks> desrt: yeah, sounds something we can cover
<Laney> hehe
<Laney> nobody knows anything about rosetta anyway
<larsu> whats rosetta?
 * Sweet5hark1 certainly would be interested in how lp is supposed to work. I'll likely need to abuse it alot away from that, but still, knowing how it should be in an ideal world is a good thing.
<didrocks> Laney: I can show you how to export translations :p
<didrocks> but seb128 can as well
<willcooke> ok, we'll get something in the calendar for the lp training then
<didrocks> that's it :p
<Laney> the translations bit of launchpad
<seb128> haha
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<Laney> soyuz = uploading, malone = bugs
<Laney> what is questions?
<willcooke> anything else from anyone?
<seb128> not from me
<didrocks> Laney: you forgot wiki as well!
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: my report?
<seb128> heh
<seb128> Sweet5hark1, that's what you get for not coming ready to the meeting :p
<willcooke> ooooh
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark1
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> - 5.1 alpha1/xenial
<Sweet5hark1> - code review
<Sweet5hark1> - some bug triage on LibreOffice ARM not starting, some look in people having problems with libreoffice-dev (sdk) on Ubuntu
<Sweet5hark1> - libpng CVE for coord for TDF LibreOffice build
<Sweet5hark1> - build system/unittest debugging improvements
<Sweet5hark1> - multiple candidate interviews for TDF DocLead position
<Sweet5hark1> - preparations for 2. german open IT Summit in Berlin
<Sweet5hark1> - LibreOffice/GNOME Madrid Hackfest coordination, advertising and budgeting, other tenders&budgeting
<Sweet5hark1> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark1
<willcooke> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2015-11-17 | Current topic: aob
<Sweet5hark1> seb128: yeah. /me is feeling guilty.
<willcooke> oki, let's end the meeting and the seb128 Trevinho we can talk about that frame sync stuff
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 17 16:05:20 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-11-17-15.30.moin.txt
<Laney> always be prepared well in advance!
<willcooke> thanks all
<Laney> WELL!#
<seb128> lol
<seb128> like Laney
 * Laney #startmeeting -> #starttyping
<seb128> be ready, including a nice utf8 char of the week ;-)
<Laney> -> #startgooglingforunicode
<seb128> willcooke, the url Trevinho gave (http://fishsoup.net/misc/wm-spec-synchronization.html) has the technical details
<willcooke> TL;DR
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah.. or http://blog.fishsoup.net/2011/11/08/applicationcompositor-synchronization/
<seb128> in practice it's supposed to lead to better/smooth rendering for e.g animated things
<seb128> I think
<willcooke> right, so same as video playback syncs to v refresh right
<willcooke> you dont get tearing when you drag windows etc
<seb128> I'm not paying attention to details enough to be able to say it makes a visible difference to me
<seb128> but maybe larsu or Laney or others have more of an opinion on that
<Trevinho> Not much about dragging windows... As per videos it's something that video players have to support (no idea about totem status on that)
<seb128> unsure how much of a net user improvement it would looks like
<larsu> no flickering for one
<larsu> also smooth resizing
<Trevinho> basically the idea is that the compositor will wait to redraw an app till the next vblank, if the app support this... Instead of doing it at XDamageNotify time
<Trevinho> larsu: smooth resizing is something that is already partly implemented
<Trevinho> larsu: as compiz already supports basic xsync
<larsu> "partly"
<larsu> :P
<Trevinho> I mean, it does support the first version of this protocol, not the "extended" one...
<larsu> what's the difference between xsync and this?
<larsu> ah, got it
<seb128> larsu, what sort of flickering?
<larsu> Trevinho: was just making a stupid joke, sorry if it came off as dismissive
<Trevinho> larsu: yeah, see difference between Basic Synchronization and Extended Synchronization in that doc
<Trevinho> larsu: no worries ;-)
<larsu> seb128: when creating windows - it's still there with my patch, but not as noticable because it's wit hthe background color instead of black
<seb128> ah, that bug, right
<larsu> but on slower machines or when creating many windows at once, you totally notice
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it's just less disturbing because there is less change
<willcooke> At this point, where I know very little my thoughts are that this is probably something that if had implemented it a few years ago would be nice, but at this point I don't think it's worth spending time on
<seb128> same here, it's a nice to have but I'm unsure if would have that much of an impact
<larsu> I tend to agree with willcooke, even though I'd really like to see it
<seb128> or at least enough to justify to be on top of the todolist
<seb128> like we need proper support for CSD before that
<Trevinho> I agree
<willcooke> I'd be happy to see it on the backlog and let's see if we have time
<willcooke> agile ftw :)
<willcooke> If someone can create a bug then I will target it etc and then if we have some time to work on it, then let's consider it, but right now we have bigger bugs to work on
<willcooke> Probably something we should mention to the U8 / Mir guys though, so they can get it in to U8
<willcooke> or at least be aware that it's a nice feature
<Laney> it's something that would make a more quality experience on the lts
<seb128> right
<seb128> the list of things that would make more of a quality experience is long though
<seb128> so we need to order it
<Laney> I know
<Laney> I think backlog is code for not doing it :)
<Laney> or at least putting it low down
<willcooke> it's a step up from not doing it
<willcooke> but yeah, imo it's lower priority than the other bugs we have on the list
 * seb128 shrugs at udisks
<seb128> ok, maybe at gnome-disks :p
<seb128> would be nice if changing partitions there would update fstab for you
<larsu> would be nice if fstab weren't a thing anymore
<seb128> yeah, is there a planned replacement?
<qengho> Is systemd eating that too?
<larsu> it's compatible with fstab, but it should, yes
<larsu> there's a generator which takes fstab entries and makes them into units
<seb128> there is no much to "eat" there, would need to define a new way to define what is in fstab
<seb128> like what swap you want to use
<seb128> or where to mount disks
<larsu> seb128: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-fstab-generator.html
<larsu> systemd has mount and swap units
<seb128> so the replacement would be for sysadmin to write systemd units?
<larsu> or use the generator
<seb128> well, that's using fstab
<larsu> ya
<seb128> also I think my issue would stand still
<seb128> I doubt gnome-disks update systemd units on the fly for you
<willcooke> desktoppers:  we have an important user with this error message when using Chrome (not Chromium):
<willcooke> (google-chrome:3016): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'com.canonical.desktop.interface' is not installed
<larsu> "important"?
<larsu> hehe, overlay scrollbars strikes again!
<desrt> what larsu said :)
<larsu> I guess chrome didn't depend on the overlay scrollbars package
<larsu> so we missed that it's using it when removing that package
<willcooke> Chrome isnt in the archive though is it?
<seb128> well, they probably try to read or change the overlay-scrollbar key
<seb128> and assume it's there
<larsu> gsettings auto crashing strikes again! :)
<Laney> HAHA
<seb128> in fact it's probably our fault
<Laney> "important user" is funny
<Laney> (it's me)
<larsu> Laney: HAHA no.
 * larsu knows Laney's using vimperator
<seb128> we still ship overlay-scrollbar-gtk2 by default
<seb128> but not overlay-scrollbar
<seb128> which includes the schemas
<seb128> that's not going to end up well
<Laney> ya they should move
<Laney> or put the pkg back
<seb128> right
<seb128> I guess it means by default wily has no o-s on gtk2?
<Laney> but that means the workaround is easy
<willcooke> would switching Cr. to "Use Classic Theme" help in the meantime?
<Laney> this is xenial
<didrocks> seb128: overlay-scrollbar is a rdepends of ubuntu-desktop metapackage
<Laney> I dropped it the other day
<seb128> but some upgraders have the Xsession.d script leftover because conffiles
<didrocks> ah, xenialâ¦
<Laney> it is there on wily
<seb128> didrocks, it's not listed on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-amd64.manifest
<Laney> just install the package
<seb128> which is what I was looking at
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> so not in wily
<didrocks> you mentionned wily ;)
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> all is fine, my chrome is happy there :p
<seb128> yeah, I didn't realize the seed changed
<willcooke> oh right, should have said this was on X, but guess you worked that out already
<Laney> I bet the important user is willcooke
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> I doubt willcooke is using xenial :)
 * Laney is going to use this keyword now in future to get things fixed
<seb128> me too
<didrocks> I would bet popey!
<Laney> guys the important user wants the frame sync protocol implemented now
<didrocks> ahah
 * popey looks up
 * Laney trolls, sorry :)
<willcooke> :D:D
 * popey is using xenial
<didrocks> popey: and chrome, right?
<Laney> lemme fix
<popey> ya
<didrocks> popey: and you just had a crash?
<popey> uh, no
<popey> should I? :)
<seb128> upgraded probably don't have the package removed
<Laney> wait
<didrocks> popey: you are not important then to will's eyes :)
<popey> Story of my life.
<didrocks> popey: sorry man! :)
<Laney> shouldn't it depends the other way around?
 * didrocks hugs popey
<popey> No, it's FINE!
<seb128> Laney, lib should depends on the o-s binary
<popey> I'm fine..
<Laney> yes
<seb128> since it uses its schemas
<Laney> it must have not done before
<seb128> that's a bug
<Laney> because that is a metapackage
<Laney> this is messed up!
<seb128> we probably never noticed because -desktop was pulling in it
<seb128> just move the schemas to the lib and be done?
<Laney> and drop the meta?
<seb128> oh, there is also the Xsession config in o-s
<Laney> or keep for upgrades
<Laney> let's do that
<seb128> hum
<seb128> dpkg is fine with moving conffiles between binaries like that, right?
<Laney> this seems annoying
<Laney> I'm just going to swap the depends
<seb128> that's wrong though
<seb128> can't you just make o-s a normal -common  binary?
<seb128> and have the lib to depends on it?
<Laney> how's that different to what I just said?
<Laney> okay I wasn't going to rename it
<seb128> I though you wanted to make o-s depends on the lib
<seb128> rather than the lib on o-s
<seb128> and I though you meant "seed o-s and have that depends on the lib"
<Laney> that's what we had before
<seb128> that seems backward since it means you can install the lib then and it's not going to pull the schemas
<seb128> if you are let's say a xubuntu user
<Laney> wtf
<seb128> or maybe we just don't understand each others ;-)
<seb128> anyway I trust you know how to fix it
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13314701/
<seb128> let's stop discussing it
<didrocks> sounds like the whole discussion about lib depending on service again
<Laney> hahaha
<didrocks> (indicators)
<didrocks> and trailing coma, /me hugs Laney!
<seb128> Laney, ok, I misunderstood you, all good ;-)
<Laney> yeah it made me SICK to type it
<Laney> but I did it for didrocks
<seb128> I didn't know that o-s was depending on -gtk2
<Laney> it was a metapackage
<seb128> so I took the "swap" wrongly
<seb128> right
 * didrocks rehugs Laney then
<seb128> all good
<Laney> guess why we didn't think that it had this in it
 * seb128 hugs Laney as well
<Laney> when reviewing this list at sprint
<seb128> small overlook
 * Laney cries
<seb128> it's good that we have important users testing our daily images to catch those bugs ;-)
<Laney> sbuild has removed the nice unicode in its logs
<Laney> now I have to look at ascii like some kind of savage
<Laney> seb128: please to review
<seb128> Laney, +1 from me from your pastebin
<seb128> or is there a proper mp to ack?
<seb128> ah, I've email
 * seb128 clicks
<larsu> *click*
<seb128> bah
<seb128> I lack lp powers to approve it though
<Laney> HAHA
 * larsu too
<Laney> you typed "sweat"
 * Laney perspires
<seb128> gar
<Laney> larsu's in the team
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-scrollbar-team
<seb128> go larsu go!
<larsu> I just clicked?!
<Laney> ?!?!?
<seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/overlay-scrollbar/swap-depends/+merge/277726
<seb128> you can do it!Ã¹
 * larsu takes the tomatoes off his eyes and approves
<seb128> ah
<seb128> better
<seb128> (not the trolling though :p)
<Laney> thanks pals
<willcooke> thank you very much chaps
<Laney> no 2fa thing in this room
<Laney> man I actually have to *move*
<willcooke> Laney, just guess
<larsu> Laney: you can do it!
<seb128> use the force
<Laney> --force
<Laney> use the dput you say?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I can put a landing request up for you if you want
<larsu> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POq2AznJO1Q
<Laney> tell you what, I'm glad I went downstairs now
<Laney> bought a chocolate bar at lunch and forgot
<Laney> it was sitting on the table
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> haha
<seb128> that's karma for you!
<Laney> larsu: thanks, my favourite song
<larsu> enjoy
<seb128> hum
 * seb128 wonders if the nautilus segfault he's valgrinding is another instance of bug #1512826
<ubot5> bug 1512826 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Wily) "when i delete .trash_1000 folder frm usb nautilus freeses" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512826
<seb128> I though we had the fix in xenial
<seb128> but seems we don't yet
<Laney> no release yet
<Laney> glib maintainersssssssssssss
<seb128> right
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night!
<larsu> didrocks: enjoy!
<seb128> didrocks, night
<didrocks> see you larsu, seb128!
<didrocks> Laney: in case you didn't see, PR merged, you can switch to it wenever you want ;)
<didrocks> whenever*
<Laney> good stuff!
<Laney> bye!
<willcooke> also bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-18
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> Good morning !
<hikiko> Hi pitti
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, hey hikiko!
<darkxst> hey pitti, didrocks hikiko
<didrocks> hey pitti, darkxst!
<hikiko> hi didrocks darkxst :)
<didrocks> hey hikiko :)
<darkxst> heat wave here ;(
<darkxst> seb128, Laney can you add me to the trello group
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks
<seb128> darkxst, unsure how trello is working, need to have a look
<seb128> darkxst, why did you report bug #1517317 against linux?
<ubot5> bug 1517317 in linux (Ubuntu) "FTBFS gnome-builder" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1517317
<seb128> also why isn't debian having the issue? can we get it fixed there since it's in sync?
<darkxst> seb128, it hasnt passed new queue yet, so there is no gnome-builder to file against
<darkxst> I've commited the change to the debian svn also
<seb128> yeah, in which case just report against ubuntu
<seb128> no package is better than a wrong one
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<seb128> also https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-builder/+filebug ?
<seb128> it went through source NEW
<seb128> so the package exist
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> darkxst, seb128, I am hoping you are seeing broken CSD shadows too with gtk 3.18.5
<seb128> ricotz, how broken? under what env?
<seb128> I didn't upgrade yet, let me try
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, missing transparency
<ricotz> didrocks, hi
<ricotz> (seb128, with gnome-shell)
<seb128> ricotz, seems like the update is stil in xenial-proposed so I don't have it yet
<seb128> unsure if that's a side effect of larsu's fix 0001-gtkwindow-continue-calling-gtk_style_context_set_bac.patch:
<darkxst> seb128, apparently my search foo failed then
<ricotz> seb128, will downgrade to confirm, but I pretty certain its gtk ;)
<darkxst> seb128, I don't know why debian didnt see it, webkit2gtk must be pulled in elsewhere, but that is ok, I know they like to be explicit with the build-deps
<seb128> darkxst, right, it's just weird that it gets pulled in for them
<seb128> ricotz, yeah, it's likely
<seb128> ricotz, and you shouldn't be used -proposed ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, ricotz always uses proposed!
<seb128> darkxst, you might want to look at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=804769 while you are fixing gnome-builder?
<ubot5> Debian bug 804769 in gnome-builder "Some files are not installed in any binary" [Normal,Open]
<darkxst> seb128, oh that is the same issue
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, it is gtk causing it
<darkxst> seb128, but I didnt see that in the debian build logs
<ricotz> darkxst, I do indeed ;), would be just half of the fun without it
<darkxst> ours "HTML and Markdown Preview ............ : no", theirs = yes
<seb128> darkxst, their .install needs to be updated to including the missing files though no?
<darkxst> seb128, looking at that now
<seb128> thanks
<darkxst> seb128, I think libide should be split out, assuming its really meant to be a public library
<darkxst> ^ ricotz
<darkxst> and the gir path is commented out, in the install file
<larsu> good morning!
<darkxst> no idea why
<larsu> seb128: what's the problem?
<larsu> seb128: also, good morning. Ã§a va?
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<seb128> larsu, ricotz says the gtk update has transparency issues under gnome-shell for CSD applications
<seb128> larsu, but that's .4 -> .5 as well, so might not be your patch
<larsu> seb128: my patch should only do unnecessary work on shell (set a bg color that is never used)
<larsu> I'm good thanks :)
<Trevinho> Morning
<larsu> hey Trq
<larsu> *Trevinho
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho
<larsu> hi didrocks!
<ricotz> darkxst, does gnome-builder really install all required headers/dev-file/pkg-config now? otherwise there is not point in splitting it yet
<didrocks> hey larsu ;)
<darkxst> ricotz, no headers, but there are gir files, a pc file and docs, all for libide that are not installed due to the debian packaging
<darkxst> I don't actaully know if libide is meant to be public though
<ricotz> darkxst, the staging ppa contains a package was the merged into debian?
<darkxst> ricotz, no, it wasnt
<ricotz> darkxst, if there are no installed headers, everything is not usable like vapi/pc-file and so on
<darkxst> ricotz, yes this is why I am questioning if any of it should be actually installed
<ricotz> ok, that is what I did in staging
<ricotz> (only install the required and usable parts)
<darkxst> ricotz, right, so its probably fine as is, and can ignore all the list-missing output
<willcooke> morning desktoppers
<larsu> morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> darkxst, ricotz, ignoring list-missing is poor taste and usually bites back at some point, better to --fail-missing and rm the things you don't want to install explicitely
 * didrocks hugs seb128 for this!
<didrocks> that, trailing comas
<didrocks> I CONVERTED YOU ALL! :)
<darkxst> seb128, I didnt quite mean that literally, I will file an upstream bug and find out what is acutally meant to happen!
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<larsu> didrocks: you don't like trailing commas?,
<seb128> darkxst, thanks
 * larsu doesn't know what didrocks is talking about,
<didrocks> larsu: I do, I was quite alone pushing for it!
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> lonely* even :)
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<larsu> Laney: morning!,
<larsu> didrocks: ;)
<davmor2> didrocks: Pffff
<darkxst> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758266
<ubot5> Gnome bug 758266 in general "Is libide meant to be a public library?" [Normal,New]
<darkxst> seb128, did you work out trello?
<darkxst> or maybe willcooke has better trello skills ;)
 * didrocks is puzzled why his new zsh function isn't sourced in /usr/share/zsh/vendor-completions
<didrocks> any zsh user familiar with that?
<Laney> darkxst: I added you I think
<Laney> enjoy
 * willcooke is reminded to send that email...
<seb128> darkxst, sorry was dealing with night backlog, seems like Laney sorted it out for you
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not, -devel might have more zsh users though
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, good idea, continuing digging just in case
 * seb128 investigates a u-s-d crasher due to g-s-d dropping some schemas key and grrrr at GNOME handling of schemas
<didrocks> of course, best way to find an issue: just speak about it on IRC and your next try will work!
<darkxst> seb128, I didnt drop any schemas
<darkxst> (in g-s-d)
<seb128> darkxst, well, somebody did, I'm going to tell you who want when in a bit
<darkxst> Laney, hmm, I can't actually add items still
<Laney> dunno sorry
<Laney> "Any team member can join this board without being invited" is ticked
<willcooke> GNOME work or GNOME software?
<willcooke> darkxst, ^
<darkxst> willcooke, both
<darkxst> but maybe its just a UI fail, says I am admin of the team now?
<Laney> maybe you have to add yourself
<willcooke> darkxst, reload
<willcooke> I've added you again
<seb128> darkxst, oh yes you did, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu/revision/491/debian/patches/revert-gsettings-removals.patch
<darkxst> willcooke, k thanks that worked
<seb128> 26
<seb128>  
<seb128> +    <key name="display" type="as">
<seb128> 27
<seb128>  
<seb128> +      <default>["", "", ""]</default>
<Laney> I was sort of hoping that he could have figured it out himself
<seb128> 28
<seb128>  
<Laney> so that we don't have to hand hold every time
<seb128> +      <_summary>Wacom display mapping</_summary>
<seb128> 29
<seb128>  
<seb128> +      <_description>EDID information of monitor to map tablet to. Must be in the format [vendor, product, serial]. ["","",""] disables mapping.</_description>
<seb128> 30
<seb128>  
<seb128> +    </key>
<seb128> ups, sorry
<seb128> launchpad diff copy fail
<seb128> darkxst, that commit dropped the "<key name="display" type="as">"
<darkxst> seb128,  that must have been a bad rebase, diffs of diffs of xml files are a nightmare
<Laney> diff the installed files at the end
<seb128> darkxst, yeah, it was not meant as a blame, it's easy to make mistakes
<seb128> just saying that this key is used by u-s-d and missing
<seb128> (thanks e.u.c!)
<seb128> darkxst, I'm fixing it
<darkxst> seb128, ok thanks
<seb128> darkxst, btw should I upload the g-c-c diff from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1512435 ? the other bits landed, you should be able to move g-c-c to universe with that
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1512435 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Stop depending on gnome-control-center" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> just wanted your ack before uploading
<andyrock> morning
<seb128> hey andyrock
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<darkxst> seb128, +1 go ahead
<seb128> darkxst, thanks
<seb128> great, g-s-d is blocked in proposed because it picked up packagekit 1.0
 * seb128 deleted that update from proposed now
<darkxst> seb128, yes
<seb128> the rebuild should not have that issue
<Laney> reckon anyone on the mir team is looking at it being blocked in proposed?
<seb128> haha
<seb128> good one ;-)
<larsu> :)
<seb128> you are the one who retried the liburcu builds?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> second time now
<Laney> hangs
<seb128> k, so you are looking at it ;-)
<Laney> no
<seb128> that was the blocker no?
<seb128> or is it more to it?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> but I don't really want to fix mir's dependencies
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/liburcu/0.9.1-2
<didrocks> on day, people will understand why I wanted to link trunk to "package in release pocket" without giving force option to upstream :)
<seb128> seems it built now?
<Laney> how does it seem that?
<Laney> ppc64el is in progress
<seb128> didrocks, they did, they removed the force option
<larsu> didrocks: one day!
<Laney> and seems to be hung
<Laney> like it did last time
<didrocks> seb128: right, but they still have a copy of trunk
<seb128> oh, the error is "old binaries left on amd64: liburcu2 (from 0.8.8-1) "
<didrocks> seb128: and work there :p
<Laney> that's one of them
<Laney> fixed by removing the NBS
<Laney> the real one is missing build on ppc64el
<seb128> k
<seb128> nag kgunn
<seb128> maybe step 1 would be fine a bug and assign to the mir team?
<Laney> asked in their channel
<seb128> didrocks, not really, they removed the "force merge" trigger from landers recently because it was abused
<seb128> so they can't merge back to trunk without carring about migration now
<didrocks> seb128: unsurprisingly, that's why I didn't give it to upstreams at the time
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> seems people needed to readd it without asking why it wasn't there in the first step (and only to landing team)
<didrocks> but well, repeating mistakes, that's the rule I guess :)
<Laney> will care more once autopkgtest catches up
<Laney> I predict that no xenial ppc64el porter machine is going to be a problem
<seb128> Laney, that hangs happen on other archs and Debian as well, looks like the current upload was supposed to fix it but failed
<seb128> oh well
<seb128> I've a feeling the MIR team is not going to fix that but Debian might
<Laney> I know
<Laney> they might handle it though instead of me/us...
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> annoying that it blocks GTK
<Laney> still other things doing that too
<seb128> though according to ricotz the GTK update has a regression
<Laney> you know the square round corners bug?
<Laney> I notice that that little bit is white now where it was black before
<seb128> but it's still solid?
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> not fixed, don't think it was supposed to be
<seb128> right
<seb128> likely the workaround from larsu
<seb128> which changed the color from black to the window bg color
<Trevinho> Some train working today (/me going to Turin for few days)
<seb128> Trevinho, so actual train, not the one used to land unity ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, have a good trip!
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, one with wifi :-)
<larsu> seb128: indeed
<seb128> BAH, g-c-c ftbfs
 * seb128 flips the desk
<seb128> the ldb update makes samba unhappy
 * larsu slowly turns seb128's desk around and pats him on the back
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> seb128: when you are back, do you have a minute to test something on your 32 bits machine with ubuntu make?
<didrocks> (I have a test failing on this arch, if you can't, I'll just install a VM)
<seb128> didrocks, back
<didrocks> seb128: so, basically, the idea is that you install ubuntu-make (to get the deps), then git clone https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make.git; cd ubuntu-make; bin/umake ide clion
<didrocks> once installed, try to run it (and don't touch anything)
<didrocks> ps aux | grep clion -> paste the processes
<seb128> didrocks, ubuntu-make from standard xenial archive?
<didrocks> seb128: yep, this is just to get the deps which hadn't change compared to master
<seb128> k
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> larsu: you use git bzr don't you?
<Laney> can I force push with it?
 * Laney is using it for the first time
<Laney> pitti made me rebase/split some commits and I couldn't bear trying to do that with bzr itself :)
<seb128> didrocks, it's downloading, keeping you posted in a bit
<didrocks> seb128: thanks a lot!
<seb128> yw!
<didrocks> Laney: from --help: git bzr push --overwrite ?
<Laney> --help exists?
<didrocks> (yeah, I would have used -f also :p)
<Laney> I got Cannot find bazaar remote with name '--help'
 * Laney fails at this
<didrocks> Laney: git help bzr
<seb128> what are you trying to do?
<didrocks> but git bzr --help
<didrocks> works as well here
<Laney> doesn't exist
<seb128> oh, git bzr integration
<Laney> anyway let me try --overwrite
<seb128> use pure bzr or git, don't mix :p
<Laney> nope
<Laney> yeah well, give me a bzr with rebase and commit --amend then :P
<didrocks> git-bzr-ng: /usr/share/man/man1/git-bzr.1.gz
<didrocks> are you sure you have the same plugin installed? :)
<didrocks> (the binary as well is in git-bzr-ng)
<Laney> no idea
<didrocks> check it's the one you are using (first, that it's intalled)
<didrocks> installed*
<didrocks> I have 0+git20120823-1
<Laney> I have it from some checkout
<Laney> github/kfish/git-bzr.git
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> use the package man! :)
<Laney> I probably tried it
<Laney> maybe I should try again
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ keep me posted
<didrocks> help works at least
<didrocks> and listing commands as well
<Laney> or I just push to a local repo and push from that one to LP :)
<Laney> dude
<Laney> git-bzr-ng is dead, removed in wily
<didrocks> as I apt install it directly I guess, it wasn't autoremoved
<larsu> Laney: yes, git bzr push --overwrite
<Laney> didrocks: you have vivid enabled or something?
<seb128> didrocks, trying to start clion from the dash gives a "Cannot find VM options file." dialog
<didrocks> Laney: I'm on wily, I kept it I guess
<Laney> rmadison git-bzr-ng is on my side
<seb128> didrocks, process is from clion.sh which spawns zenity to display the error
<didrocks> seb128: ah, interesting, mind doing a screenshot? Maybe it's 64 bits only
<didrocks> Laney: yep, it was removed in wily: (From Debian) RoM; dependency about to be removed, alternative available; Debian bug #742415
<ubot5> Debian bug 742415 in ftp.debian.org "RM: git-bzr-ng -- ROM; dependency about to be removed, alternative available" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/742415
<Laney> I know, I told you that :P
<didrocks> Laney: and as I told you, I should have installed it before it was removed
 * Laney tries the git-remote-bzr support
<seb128> didrocks, then when I close that one I get "32-bit JVM is not supported. Please install 64-bit version."
<didrocks> Laney: and as I apt install it directly, autoremove didn't remove it
<didrocks> (see above :p)
<didrocks> nothing related to some vivid repo added
<Laney> I see, I thought you meant you installed it just now
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so only 64 bits, that explains why the tests are failing! Many thanks for testing :)
<seb128> didrocks, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/clion.png and http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/clionbis.png
<seb128> didrocks, yw
<didrocks> Laney: nope, I've (happily) used it in the past
<didrocks> seb128: ok, quite clear :)
<didrocks> Laney: keep me posted on git-remote-bzr, I'll switch to this if that works well for you
<seb128> I missed the start of the discussion when restarting IRC, but what are you guys trying to do?
<qengho> good morning
<seb128> hey qengho
<seb128> is anybody else using xenial and having issues with notify-osd bubbles when wheeling over indicator-sound?
<seb128> I just see an underline on the  panel
<seb128> Treeeviiinhooo
<seb128> or in fact might be that xenial indicator-sound landing, more likely even
<larsu> seb128: works for me but I haven't updated in a day or so
<seb128> that issue is older than a day or so for me
<larsu> I'm updating and testing nonetheless
<willcooke> seb128, just tried it, I get a very feint purple line near the bottom of the indicator panel
<seb128> ah
<seb128> same here!
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<willcooke> upgrading now
<seb128> syslog has those
<seb128> ** (notify-osd:5464): WARNING **: bubble_recalc_size(): WARNING, no layout!!!
<seb128> ** (notify-osd:5464): WARNING **: WARNING: No layout defined!!!
<Laney> !!!
<larsu> seb128: YOU HAVE NO LAYOUT!!!
<seb128> seems I don't :-/
<larsu> ;)
<seb128> weird it's not consistant between installs though
<seb128> Laney, having it or not?
<Laney> dunno, seems you already got people to try, not much point in everyone doing so
<Laney> not sure I am super current etc
<Laney> and fighting with git and bzr :P
<seb128> Laney, k, we have 3 people and a 1 - 2, and it's a scroll event away, I though one more would give cheap extra data
<seb128> but no big deal
<Laney> give me a few minutes then
<seb128> I'm going to try downgrading things
<pitti> Laney: s/made/kindly asked/ :-) -- but I thought about bzr uncommit, shelving the others, bzr commit, and then unshelve/commit the rest, or just ignore me
<Laney> pitti: hehe
<pitti> indeed it's fugly with bzr
<Laney> I have the right thing in git now
<Laney> just got to ship it over somehow
 * Laney is bashing it with a floppy hammer that doesn't work quite right
<Laney> KeyErrors, fast-export dying, all this stuff
<dupingping> hi everyone.
<dupingping> nice to meet you.
<dupingping> how can i upload a patch for gvfs?
<seb128> dupingping, hey, depending what you are trying to do? upstream is GNOME, if it's an Ubuntu specific change/packaging/backport on launchpad
<Laney> ah I got it to push
<Laney> it's messed up lp's diff though
<Laney> pitti: there it is to re-review when you've got time
<pitti> Laney: cheers!
<Laney> didrocks: this seems to work pretty well, supports --force too
 * Laney lunch
<didrocks> Laney: enjoy!
<seb128> larsu, it seems that indicator-sound changed the format of what it sends to unity7 with https://code.launchpad.net/~xavi-garcia-mena/indicator-sound/bluetooth-icons-bug-1415480/+merge/272735 and that notify-osd doesn't like it, I pinged Xavi
<seb128> unsure if notify-osd should deal better with input it doesn't like though
<larsu> seb128: ah I updated and rebooted but forgot to test! I see the same bug
<larsu> seb128: we should revert
<larsu> wait. notify osd doesn't care about the indicator sound bus messages
<seb128> downgrading the indicator fixes it though
<seb128> so it's something in that changeset
<larsu> right
<larsu> seb128: got it. It sends a title for the notification now, which throws off notify osd
<larsu> "Speakers"
<seb128> do you consider that a notify-osd issue?
<larsu> dunno really
<larsu> it doesn't know what to do when it gets a title and a hint "make a volume bar"
<larsu> i.e., it would simply ignore the title
<larsu> and I guess this is specified somewhere (lol)
<larsu> oh sorry, this is about message body, not title
<larsu> it already ignores the title
<larsu> indicator-sound now gives a notification with title "Volume" and body "Speakers"
<larsu> is the sound notification on the phone showing this string?
<xavigarcia> yes, it is
<larsu> apparently it's to distinguish between speakers, headphones, etc
<xavigarcia> exactly
<seb128> larsu, right, I think the intend is to tell if that's your bluetooth headset or the speaking which is changing
<xavigarcia> I added the change as it was requested for the phone
<xavigarcia> larsu: so that would be the only change...
<larsu> xavigarcia: there's quite some whitespace issues in that patch btw
<larsu> I can make notify-osd ignore this
<xavigarcia> larsu: in fact that string was added in a previous branch, but now it is shown all the time... that's the difference
<larsu> but I guess we should also show it on the desktop?
<larsu> xavigarcia: when was it not shown before? In the "Speakers" case?
<xavigarcia> I'm not sure about that, to be honest
<larsu> if so, I guess that's why noone noticed...
<xavigarcia> larsu: it was used to show the "Warning high volume can damage your hearing" string
<larsu> ah, even less likely to get noticed on desktop
<xavigarcia> larsu: but that warning is only used on the phone
<xavigarcia> larsu: yep
<xavigarcia> larsu: I'm normally testing the sound indicator changes on the desktop... but... I'm never using the wheel to change the volume, so I didn't notice it
<larsu> xavigarcia: only very few people do, but they are very important to us ;)
<xavigarcia> larsu: sure
<xavigarcia> larsu: so do you reckon you can fix it? or do we need extra work in the indicator
<xavigarcia> ?
<larsu> xavigarcia: already did ;)
<xavigarcia> larsu: cool!
<larsu> hm is my icon branch still outstanding? I'm seeing the old icon here
<larsu> inded
<seb128> larsu, which one?
<seb128> larsu, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/spam-a-bit-less/+merge/274382 you mean?
<larsu> yep
<seb128> I just pressed published on that
<larsu> :)
<seb128> tested it while I was testing the notifications with old/new indicator
<larsu> seb128: review appreciated ;) https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/ignore-body-for-sync-bubbles/+merge/277855
<larsu> one line!
 * larsu hopes that doesn't brean anything else
<larsu> but it seems to work fine for me so far
<larsu> brb
<seb128> larsu, looking
<didrocks> started early, no break, time to sign off I guess :)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<hallyn> every few minutes unity is un-setting my caps-lock-as-control set through xmodmap.  is there a "proper" way left to set such a keymap?  (the keyboard control widget lost that setting months or years ago)
<hallyn> unity-tweak-tool has nothing,
<hallyn> used to only unset it on package upgrades...
<seb128> hallyn, no idea why/what would do that...
<hallyn> a new daemon that enforces uniformity among desktops? :-)  gnome-tweak-tool had a caps-lock-as-contorl setting, i'll see if that keeps it from happening
<hallyn> on the bright side, got unity to start for first time in months :)
<seb128> how did you fix it?
<Laney> oh I forgot, local mirror is synced again
<Laney> reason it was so slow last time was that the hard drive was dying
<attente> for lintian error "unstripped-binary-or-object" am i supposed to call strip in a preinst script?
<attente> or do i need a custom dh_strip target in debian/rules?
<attente> i'm also getting 'W: maliit-framework-dbg: empty-binary-package' even though 'DEB_DH_STRIP_ARGS := --dbg-package=maliit-framework-dbg' is in debian/rules
<Laney> attente: post the package somewhere?
<attente> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/maliit/maliit-glib
<attente> err..
<attente> wait
<attente> Laney: can you please try it now?
<Laney> ok
<attente> Laney: er, never mind
<attente> Laney: i set my sbuild to not strip symbols
<attente> although i'm still getting 'postinst-must-call-ldconfig' despite having 'activate-noawait ldconfig' in the triggers
<Laney> probably fixed by the lintian I just uploaded
<Laney> you definitely don't need to add those triggers yourself
<Laney> dh_makeshlibs does this
<attente> thanks!
<Laney> although that's in depwait
<Laney> WAH
<Laney> seb128 / infinity: You fancy promoting libfuture-perl libstruct-dumb-perl libio-async-perl?
<Laney> IIRC perl packages usually just get done without MIR
<Laney> alright, well, hope you feel able to do that. :P
<Laney> night!
<willcooke> cya Laney
 * willcooke quits too
<willcooke> g'night all;
<mterry> kenvandine, poke on deja-dup  :)
<mterry> kenvandine, this is a pass-through poke from barry
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-19
<didrocks> good morning!
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> good morning desktopers :D
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> my isp just gave me 10GB mobile internet for free until they fix the problem so that I can use my mobile as a hotspot until they fix the issue :)
<hikiko> \m/
<hikiko> hi didrocks :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey hikiko, re didrocks
<didrocks> re seb128
<hikiko> hi seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128
 * pitti -> appointment, bbl
<seb128> pitti, salut pitti, Ã§a va ?
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<larsu> bonjour didrocks!
<Trevinho> Buon giorno!
<larsu> hey Trevinho
<didrocks> morning Trevinho
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<larsu> morning seb128! good thanks - and you?
<Trevinho> Hi larsu, didrocks, seb128 ;-)
<darkxst> hey all
<seb128> hey darkxst
 * Trevinho hates when can't connect to routers...
<didrocks> interesting those frameworks which keeps changing their icon path :p
<didrocks> (great that tests enable us to discover this)
<willcooke> morning
<larsu> willcooke: bonjour
<didrocks> morning willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney
<Laney> hey ;-)
<Laney> a pre hello hey from seb128!
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> i think you meant larsu
<seb128> no, but it was within the minute you usually say hello
<larsu> morning Laney :)
<seb128> so I though it was good timing ;-)
<larsu> seb128 is clever
<Laney> a cunning young man
<Laney> some would say too cunning
<Laney> hi larsu!
<seb128> haha
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> what's going on with autopkgtests, why is there so much backlog?
<Laney> hey didrocks
 * seb128 looks at pitti
<Laney> one of the cloud regions is broken
<Laney> so there are 10 less workers than normal
<seb128> I see
<seb128> need to to feed more hamsters
<Laney> still doesn't seem to have gotten to most of the gtk tests though
<Laney> that's been like 1.5 days now
<Laney> which is a bit suspicious
<seb128> yeah, some are in progress for ages
<Laney> and the queue only shrunk by like 60 overnight on xenial/amd64
<Laney> I think one problem is that kde tests all do a rebuild from source
<Laney> don't know if that explains all this
<Laney> there were quite a lot on trusty too because of some kernel uploads
<Laney> bleh
<Laney> did you see my request yesterday for some promotions?
<seb128> yeah, I was still around but not in full work mode
<seb128> and I'm unsure I feel like promoting things without a MIR
<seb128> is that "perl sources can be freely promoted" written somewhere?
<seb128> it feels weird
<seb128> like why do we need to bother for things like cmake rules or small python wrappers, but perl is ok?
<Laney> ok, never mind, I'll ask someone else
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> I'm tempted to just do it for the sake of avoiding work though :p
<seb128> sorry, ping me again if you don't manage to get a reply for e.g infinity
<seb128> I'm a bit reluctant but it's not going to take a lot to convince me ;-)
<seb128> what is pulling those in now btw?
<seb128> I missed the context
<Laney> lintian
<robert_ancell> Hi all
<robert_ancell> Writing planning documents feels like going back 10 years in software development...
<Laney> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> hey robert_ancell!
<Laney> what a nice surprise!
<seb128> how are you? (out of the planning documents writting ;-)
<didrocks> hey robert_ancell!
<Laney> what's the planning document for?
<robert_ancell> seb128, sore. I spent the evening putting up insulation in my house renovation. Wild times for me!
<robert_ancell> Laney, GNOME Software
<willcooke> ohai robert_ancell !
<didrocks> seb128: +1 on being annoyed by those CI downtime without warnings (spent an hour this morning because all machines were on weird state)
 * Laney tries didrocks appstream commit
<didrocks> no fear! :-)
<Laney> is using a virtualenv best practice?
<didrocks> Laney: if you want to control exactly what deps are in, yeah
<Laney> I got all the deps from the archive anyway
<Laney> so it made me wonder a bit
<didrocks> (and if you use --site-packages, it's just a portable way to have your binaries installed in a non root dir)
<didrocks> so I would say it's still the best to do
<Laney> because with setting PYTHONPATH it works directly from the checkout
<didrocks> better than /usr/local/â¦
<Laney> but it's not hard to install it
<didrocks> yeah, I would still suggest to install it
<didrocks> in this virtualenv
<Laney> unless there is weird path stuff
<didrocks> Laney: btw, I guess the service isn't scalable with just served by one server, isn't it?
<didrocks> what's the plan for that, giving it charmed to IS?
<didrocks> or handling it in canonistack for some amount of time
<Laney> like this https://github.com/ximion/appstream-dep11/blob/master/dep11/generator.py#L386
<didrocks> and handling replications and such
<Laney> what do you mean?
<Laney> launchpad will just pull the data into the archive
<pitti> re
<pitti> seb128: 'sup?
<Laney> users don't hit it directly really
<pitti> seb128: oh, the backlog -- well, look at excuses.html :/
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that's what I'm looking at
<didrocks> Laney: ah, so one consumer (being launchpad), but still, who will host it?
<seb128> pitti, things seem to be on "in progress" for days
<Laney> $cloud
<didrocks> Laney: I have some suggestions if it's on canonistack to ensure it's always up :)
<pitti> seb128: and bos01 died over night, so it didn't make as much progress as it could have
<didrocks> (even one instance)
<Laney> it'll be on prodstack or whatever I guess
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> so not us
<pitti> debci-xenial-amd64 472
<Laney> canonistack is no good for a production service
<pitti> debci-xenial-armhf 30
<pitti> debci-xenial-i386 256
<pitti> debci-xenial-ppc64el 8
<Laney> it's been randomly shut down many times already
<didrocks> Laney: the path stuff doesn't really shock me TBH
<Laney> and only been up for like 1 week
<didrocks> Laney: it's either using prod data or local checkout one, which is common
<pitti> seb128: yeah, I know -- we are still heavily underpowered and Monday's KDE landing causes an awful backlog as the tests take very long
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, that's why if you wanted to use something like kubernetes meanwhileâ¦
<didrocks> (providing one or multiple pods and keeping them up)
<Laney> didrocks: this breaks if it's in the virtualenv though no?
<Laney> because ".." won't be what it wants it to be
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, wierd that it worked, though, right?
<Laney> I don't know that it did
<Laney> because of the bug you fixed it never ran
<Laney> so would have found this later on
<seb128> pitti, I see, would be nice to have some smart logic to not let big jobs DoS the infra and take all the builders, blocking the small/easy ones
<seb128> oh well
<seb128> no hurry, let's wait
<didrocks> Laney: I told you I tried it in a virtualenv on the machine, no?
<Laney> did you look at the output?
<pitti> seb128: believe me, I'm harrassing IS regularly about getting moar powah :/ I know it sucks
<didrocks> yep, it generated some new content, but I didn't look in detail (there was some warning, but similar to the one you had with your global run IIRC)
<Laney> I guess the system fallback would have worked
 * Laney removes the package ;-)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> if you installed it :p
<didrocks> the best practice is first to factorize that in a get_template_dir()
<didrocks> and have the logic poking here
<pitti> seb128: so KDE and lots of other xenial packages plus new kernels in all stables (which also trigger several hundred tests each), plus little capacity -> I don't think reordering gains us that much there
<Laney> how do you get the root directory of the virtualenv?
<pitti> seb128: is there a package that's particularly pressing? we can hint it
<didrocks> Laney: $VIRTUAL_ENV
<Laney> neat
<didrocks> isn't it? :p
<didrocks> Laney: want some help or you are handling the patch?
<Laney> as you wish
<seb128> pitti, no, it's ok, mostly mir and gtk+ but they are not that urgent
<Laney> there are some other cases e.g. dep11-hints.yml
<didrocks> Laney: can handle a small refactoring of this if you wish
<seb128> pitti, btw, other topic ... could we have a cron job for xenial langpacks updates?
<pitti> seb128: oh, do we have exports now? sure!
 * seb128 wants his new gedit translated :p
<pitti> (I need to build the first one by hand, but that's simple)
<pitti> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+language-packs :(
<seb128> pitti, unsure, but translations are open
<pitti> -> #u-devel
<seb128> k
<willcooke> seb128, did you see that Yorba went under? :(
<seb128> willcooke, no, I didn't see, but I assumed they did since none of the projects are active and we didn't get a reply for the shotwell key issue since june
<seb128> where did you read that?
<davmor2> willcooke: aren't they the guys that do shotwell
<willcooke> seb128, G+
<willcooke> davmor2, exactly
<willcooke> so worth having a quick discussion about Shotwell?  I mean, nothing has changed for ages, so we could keep it and not expect any serious breakage.  But might be worth thinking about a change of app?
<willcooke> popey, ^^
<davmor2> time to re-evaluate gphoto maybe
<larsu> sad for them
<larsu> but yeah, kind of expected
<seb128> davmor2, gnome-photos I guess you mean?
<seb128> we could, but changing in a LTS cycle...
<seb128> and it's new GNOME style which doesn't fit well with our desktop
<seb128> where shotwell is  desktop style
<davmor2> seb128: yeah thought it was gphoto but yes the gnome photos app
<seb128> old school desktop*
<willcooke> seb128, agreed.  Sounds like a job for LTS+1 (to consider the alternatives)
<seb128> also gnome-photos might depends on tracker or things we are not currently using (though I didn't look at it at all)
<Laney> last I heard gnome photos didn't do importing from digital cameras yet
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, also let's see if somebody picks shotwell up
<darkxst> seb128, yes, I suspect gnome-photos uses tracker
<Laney> or any photo editing
<davmor2> willcooke: well by then we'll be unity8 based and have gallery right ;)
<willcooke> davmor2, it's a possibility
<seb128> I doubt it
<seb128> they were talking about deprecating gallery
<seb128> the camera app is having most of the features
<popey> Hah!
<popey> Gallery - Written by Yorba
<seb128> yes
<Laney> didrocks: huh, I forgot to reply to you?
<Laney> didrocks: feel free to handle it if you are willing :)
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I was waiting for you to be back on that :)
<didrocks> Laney: ok, will do that this afternoon
<seb128> willcooke, do you have an url to that g+ post?
<didrocks> seems ptyprocess needs a MIR
<seb128> just curious, I'm probably not subscribed to the same people you are
<Laney> didrocks: I at least typed something, must have deleted it :P
<Laney> what is pytprocess?
<willcooke> seb128, sure, one sec....
<didrocks> ptyprocess*
<didrocks> Laney: something used by pexpect to handle virtual shells
<willcooke> https://goo.gl/SsAhv
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> https://plus.google.com/+NathanDyerdotMe/posts/67ts6ALTmTx
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<Laney> "AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
 * Laney closes that tab forever
 * robert_ancell -> sleep
<willcooke> see you robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> bye all
<pitti> seb128, Laney: ok, 45 mins with IS later I now have lcy01 and 8 extra workers back; let's see how long they'll hold :)
<Laney> pitti: good luck
<Laney> I noticed they re-enabled some builders there which all died again
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/builders <- lcy01-* Cleaning
<pitti> Laney: yes, axino said he'd try to restart those and monitor
<Laney> pitti: I mean that as a sign that it still wasn't stable at least earlier this morning
<pitti> 11:54:58 axino | pitti: when they're all disabled, lcy01 tends to be stable
<Laney> although maybe it is those that bring down the cloud and not the cloud itself being bad
<pitti> "they" -> lcy01 buildds
<Laney> what's the interesting difference between this and lgw01 that makes lgw01 reliable?
<pitti> Laney: I have no idea
<Laney> sort of rhetorical :)
 * Laney is tail -f log/lcy*.log
<pitti> Laney: as long as you don't see "ERROR"s in nova list, things should be okay
<Laney> nod
<pitti> man, one of these days I need to figure out why some tests use the ugly instance names
<pitti> seems the --name option doesn't get passed along properly in one case
<darkxst> Laney, can you add gnome-builder to desktop-extra?
<Laney> darkxst: if you mail devel-permissions
<darkxst> Laney, kk
<Laney> but aren't you getting that fixed in debian?
<Laney> i.e. autosync
<darkxst> Laney, yes, I am pushing the fixes through debian
<darkxst> but its kinda crap when I have to wait on debian to fix FTBS etc
<darkxst> (ones that only affect us)
<Laney> get some sponsored uploads
<Laney> then you can become DM
<darkxst> Laney, who is going to sign my key?
<Laney> one of these kind people https://wiki.debian.org/Keysigning/Offers#AU
<darkxst> Laney, or I just come to the debian hackfest, if CC will sponsor it ;)
<darkxst> ^ insert pkg-gnome
<Laney> heh
<Laney> when is that?
<darkxst> no date set yet
<Laney> which mailing list?
<Laney> don't see one
<Laney> just some irc the other day
<darkxst> Laney, only irc, but it will happen sooner or later
<darkxst> unless its like the git migration, that doesnt want to happen
<Laney> that's one reason to have a sprint
<darkxst> yep
<darkxst> but then also must be a reason we don't have branches on alioth either ;)
<Laney> the script is the hard part
<Laney> ask tumbleweed
<darkxst> Laney, I was alluding to the point that it should in theory be really simple to create packaging branches for ubuntu GNOME/gnome3 ppa's, but it still hasnt happened
<Laney> oh right
<Laney> it's going to be cool to be able to git merge
 * Laney does this for gstreamer already and it is g-r-e-a-t
<darkxst> I already git merge everything, but major hacky, since not merging real commits
<Laney> mmm
<darkxst> works pretty well though, apart from the fact you have to resolve all conflicts before commiting
<Laney> are you using rerere?
<darkxst> gbp and a custom script that pulls in bzr packaging branches if available
 * darkxst really should sleep now, I meant to do that an hour ago
<Laney> lxc -> xenial
 * Laney looks at dbus merge now
 * Laney loses utf8 sbuild on desktop too now :(
<seb128> Laney, utf8 sbuild?
<Laney> yeah it had nice output
<Laney> now it's all ascii
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> hardly a big deal :P
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> oh, nice, gnome-desktop3 migrated, seems like autopkgtest backlog is getting smaller ;-)
<Laney> gtk got some green too
<seb128> nice
<seb128> larsu, are you looking at the nautilus menubar thing or not yet? I'm trying to decide what I should do with the nautilus update, wait a bit/upload without menubar to start/...
<didrocks> so, they cancel the light festival in Lyonâ¦
<seb128> they do?!
<seb128> it's well in advance
<didrocks> well, it's in less than a month
<didrocks> like 2 weeks and a day
<didrocks> so not that much in advance
<didrocks> (on the contrary even, hotels are booked in general 6 months in advance)
<larsu> seb128: does tomorrow work for you?
<seb128> larsu, next week work as well, I just want an estimate if it's worth waiting or better to go without and do that later
<larsu> seb128: ok. I'll do it tomorrow :)
<seb128> larsu, danke
<seb128> didrocks, right, I guess my comment was rather "it's probably not reacting to a particular plot they found but just being cautious/not wanting to risk it because it's difficult to secure a such event"
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, basically they fear that some noise of explosion due to anything create panicks
<seb128> pitti is going to need to come to your place again next year then!
<pitti> en effect !
<Laney> but the stollen!
<seb128> double stollen!
<seb128> one this year, one next :p
<pitti> non, je vais toujour venir !
<seb128> tu as raison
<didrocks> ;)
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<ricotz> attente, hi, is thr
<ricotz> oop
<ricotz> attente, hi, is there a current patch-set of mir for gtk+ git master?
<attente> ricotz: for the ubuntu package? because it should be up-to-date as it hasn't had any activity in a while
<ricotz> attente, I mean gtk+ git master doesnt compile against mir in xenial
<attente> ricotz: i'll take a look
<ricotz> ./gdk/mir/gdkmir-debug.c:106:36: warning: implicit declaration of function 'mir_touch_event_get_cookie' [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
<attente> ricotz: you'll probably have to build against mir trunk because that's new api
<seb128> Laney, pitti, can you help me to understand http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ldb ? why aren't armhf/ppc64el trying for the current version?
<ricotz> attente, hmm, I see
<pitti> Laney, seb128: bug 1512779 -- ATM these need to be retried manually, sorry
<ubot5> bug 1512779 in Auto Package Testing "Failing tests are not re-triggered when package with failures is re-uploaded" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512779
<desrt> good morning, fellow desktoply -inclined people
<seb128> hey desrt!
<Laney> urgh, look at the wrapping in that bug
<pitti> seb128: let me retry all armhf/ppc64 failures wholesale, the qeueus are emtpy
<seb128> pitti, danke
<attente> ricotz: you can also just delete the line since it's just there for debugging purposes
<pitti> well, not "empty", but "short"
<Laney> note to self: never hard wrap when writing launchpad comments in the web UI
<attente> ricotz: but afaik, it won't behave any differently than what's in the archive for xenial
<seb128> Laney, nag the launchpad team to have them to display a wrapping line in the ui so if you want to do it manually you know where ;-)
<Laney> I probably used vimperator and vipgq it
<ricotz> attente, alright, will do that
 * Laney does some rebuilds for liburcu
<Laney> it'll be annoying if things get blocked on this transition after the tests run :P
<Laney> pitti: "OSError: [Errno 12] Cannot allocate memory" - erm?
<pitti> wut?
<Laney> failure just now
<pitti> oh, bos01-ppc64el-9
<pitti> Mem:       2050048    1912936     137112       1280     328800     624912
<pitti> doesn't seem terrible
<pitti> erk, wrong machine
<pitti> Mem:       2050048    1975464      74584       1228       7524      84096
<Laney> isn't that from the cloud worker?
<pitti> still
<pitti> Laney: yes, it is
 * pitti shrugs, let's see if it happens on more workers
<pitti> lcy01 is still up -- scary!
<pitti> it really seems it's the buildds OR autopkgtest, there's no AND there
 * Laney restarted it
<Laney> cosmic rays
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, we still get error reports for the unity-webapps-* migration scripts, didn't you put a landing up to drop those previous cycle?
<kenvandine> seb128, i did, not sure if they landed
 * kenvandine checks
<kenvandine> seb128, yes, silo 38
<kenvandine> the branches are still awaiting review
<seb128> kenvandine, can you nag someone?
<seb128> dbarth?
<Laney> seb128: can you look at NEW for ltt-control please?
<Laney> I fake synced it from git, will block liburcu, mir, etc
<seb128> Laney, ok
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> yw
 * Laney lunch
<seb128> Laney, done
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<desrt> google impresses me
<desrt> they actually managed to make google+ _more_ difficult to use
<larsu> oh true this looks different
<larsu> morning desrt
<desrt> g' morning
<seb128> less easy to read :-/
<desrt> also less easy to do anything at all
<desrt> ...and it was pretty bad to begin with
<seb128> I'm not doing much with it out of browser through posts and reading sometimes comments
<larsu> don't use it?
<mdeslaur> I gather their goal is to make everyone leave before they shut it down
<desrt> that's sort of the impression i got
<desrt> people will be less upset that way
<desrt> unfortunately, google+/hangouts use is more or less mandatory for ingress operations :(
<larsu> "unfortunately" :P
<willcooke> :D
<desrt> i totally geeked out on the social aspects of this game
<desrt> which unfortunately has dragged me into a world of G+ pain
<larsu> isn't it just the account you need?
<desrt> technically you don't need a G+ account at all -- just google login
<desrt> but again, all the social aspects...
<desrt> any kind of non-boring high-level play involves a fairly large amount of groupwork
<desrt> a bit of it is kinda implicit "i see my team happens to be holding this territory, i'll help out" type stuff... but anything beyond that requires coordination
<desrt> and since it's all hooked into the "G" ecosystem, this is the platform of choice for everything... G+ and hangouts
<larsu> makes sense
<larsu> everyone has a google account by definition
<larsu> doesn't make sense to have another one
<desrt> and it's just one simple click to "upgrade" to G+!
 * Sweet5hark is back from berlin.
<Sweet5hark> Twas awesome.
<qengho> Sweet5hark: what was in Berlin?
<Sweet5hark> qengho: 2. open it summit by the greens and OSBA. lots of members of parliament asking how they can help open source/open data/etc.
<qengho> Nice.
<pitti> Laney: lgw workers dying> looks like orphaned instances, I'm cleaning up and restart
<willcooke> didrocks, http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/ubuntu-15-10-review-wily-werewolf-leaves-scary-experimentation-for-next-year/
<willcooke> didrocks, "If you're looking for a quick way to get, for example, a basic Android development environment setup, you'd be hard pressed to beat Ubuntu Make's simple umake android command."
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> didrocks, well done!
<didrocks> thx ;)
<didrocks> happy that it's started to get noticed by the press
<didrocks> (while I'm fighting pokfdpokfspodkfpods proxy on jenkinsâ¦ not allowing me to access to localhost)
<willcooke> erm, maybe larsu or seb128 - will we get the Google Drive integration from GNOME apps in 16.04?
<seb128> willcooke, yes, the current gvfs has a backend for it
<seb128> though unsure if that needs online account integration/is going to work with uoa
<seb128> also somebody needs to merge gvfs with Debian
<larsu> I think it does
<seb128> but xnox just put his name on that by doing a rebuild ;-)
<willcooke> lulz
<larsu> haha
<xnox> NOOOOOOO
<larsu> welcome back xnox
<Laney> swap with me for mdadm
 * Laney doesn't mind doing gvfs
<Laney> but I definitely do mind merging mdadm
<xnox> Laney, deal
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> Laney, xnox, thanks
<willcooke> desktoppers:  I'm going to swap some hours tomorrow morning.  I'll be back around lunchtime.  Telegram if you need anything
<Laney> *anything*?
<Laney> sudo make me a sandwich
<willcooke> I'll go to subway, buy you a sandwich and put it in the pist
<willcooke> *post
<willcooke> no, wait, better idea
<willcooke> muhaha
<xnox> willcooke, justeat.co.uk do delivery might be easier to order it like that.
<Laney> I'm off tomorrow, so I could be anywhere
<Laney> drone delivery ought to be fine
<Laney> as long as it's not delivering a hellfire missile
<seb128> Laney, oh, enjoy the long w.e!
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> this is one of the three days I had to use up :P
 * seb128 should look at the team calendar once a week
<seb128> willcooke missed that one on the monday summary ;-)
<Laney> nah, I booked it on monday
<seb128> ah, ok
<seb128> any plan for the day?
<seb128> climbing?
<Laney> bake a cake for rosie's birthday
<seb128> day/w.e
<seb128> ah, nice
<Laney> I want to make one of those rainbow cakes
<willcooke> yeah, I was thinking about that,  perhaps move the email later in the day, or even to Tuesday
<Laney> they are cool
<seb128> take a picture for us :-)
<Laney> and then climbing
<willcooke> cake!
<Laney> last time I made a cake it was a carrot cake
<Laney> and was possibly the most disgusting thing I have ever created
<Laney> I must have misread the scale on the measuring jug or something
<Laney> *way* too much oil in it
<willcooke> oh wait a moment
<willcooke> xnox,
<Laney> we ended up frying them
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> wb xnox
<xnox> tah
<didrocks> climbing on the cake?
 * didrocks is confused :)
<didrocks> terribly confused even
<willcooke> Laney, fried cake... sounds ok.  I could probably eat a fried cake
<willcooke> thats pretty much a donut
<didrocks> humâ¦ donut
<Laney> it wasn't so bad in that form
<Laney> when it took about 4 hours to bake enough to fry...
<qengho> Laney: carrot cake needs none of your help to be disgusting.
<Laney> YOU TAKE THAT BACK
<qengho> Carrot and coconut and raisins. All ways to ruin perfectly good baked goods.
<desrt> qengho: +1 on the carrot, but you lost me after that
<didrocks> willcooke: you got me interested in searching a little bit more recent articles, I see some like http://tuxdiary.com/2015/10/30/ubuntu-make/
 * willcooke reads
<willcooke> nice!
<didrocks> there are even some youtube videos on how to install <â¦> with Ubuntu Make
<didrocks> funny :)
<willcooke> awesome!
<qengho> didrocks: But, how do we install Ubuntu Make?!?
<didrocks> qengho: all is written on its wiki page :)
<qengho> I have not installed a web browser yet.
<didrocks> qengho: you never installed chrome? :p
<didrocks> that explains! ;)
<didrocks> (j/k)
 * qengho brblunch
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night
<Laney> night didrocks
<Laney> see you monday!
<didrocks> Laney: enjoy your long week-end :)
<Laney> thanks
 * Laney is off too, going to donate blood
<Laney> laters!
<seb128> Laney, good luck for that and for the baking, have a good w.e!
<willcooke> g'night all - gonna be late tomorrow, prolly lunchtimeish
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-20
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> hey TheMuso! a bit tired still, but good, thanks! how about yourself?
<TheMuso> pitti: Not too bad thanks, glad to have air conditioning here today, 40+ degrees in Sydney, can't wait for the southerly cool change so I can open my windows again. :)
<pitti> urgh, steaming
<TheMuso> Pretty much.
<pitti> Laney: meh, more weird MemoryErrors and segfaults -- time to reboot this box
<pitti> Laney: maybe the piled up ksplices eventually made the kernel's head explode
<darkxst> pitti, how did this manage to migrate through proposed? bug 1518035
<ubot5> bug 1518035 in libjpeg9 (Ubuntu) "package libjpeg-progs 1:9a-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/man/man1/djpeg.1.gz', which is also in package libjpeg-turbo-progs 1.3.0-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518035
<pitti> darkxst: we don't do upgrade tests as part of proposed-migration
<pitti> apparently a fresh install works
<darkxst> pitti, right that makes sense
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<hikiko> Morning !
<didrocks> good morning pitti, hikiko!
<pitti> Laney: dbus tests are reeeeally unhappy, the root tests keep timing out
 * pitti cancels the currently running ones, no point
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks, pitti
<seb128> pitti, Laney is off today :-/
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> though I would not be surprised if he reads IRC
<didrocks> re seb128
<didrocks> Laney: preventively: "go away"! :)
<pitti> ok, that should have cleared a lot of -proposed stuff
<seb128> pitti, "that"?
<pitti> seb128: retrying tests, adding hints, retrying some failed builds
<seb128> ah, ok
<pitti> a lot of arm64 builds failed in a weird way
 * seb128 wonders what transitions is the solid block at the bottom of update_output
<pitti> seb128: and bringing moah powah to my clouds, so the queues finally cleared up \o/
<pitti> seb128: isn't that just the concatenation of everything it tries to migrate?
<pitti> that "autohinter" thing
<seb128> does it always does that?
<pitti> there's certainly a bunch of valid candidates which wait for finishing lib transitions, like imobiledevice
<seb128> libimobiledevice seems to miss a upower rebuild
<seb128> pitti, did you have any content to include for that one or should we go for a no change?
<pitti> ah, easy; want me to, or are you on it?
<seb128> I can do it
<pitti> heh
<seb128> just wanted to check if you had actually patches pending or something
<pitti> seb128: I suppose your "upload a no-change rebuild" script is as good as everyone else's :)
<seb128> doing it then ;-)
<pitti> cheers
<seb128> yw!
<larsu> happy Friday!
<seb128> hey larsu, happy friday!
<seb128> wie gehts?
<Trevinho> morning
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> hey seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<larsu> seb128: gut danke. und idr?
<larsu> *dir
<didrocks> happy Friday larsu, Trevinho!
<larsu> hi Trevinho! Sup?
<seb128> larsu, auch gut, danke :-)
<larsu> bonjour didrocks
<Trevinho> hi larsu .... Trying to fix my broken head... :-/
<larsu> Trevinho: oh what's up?
<Trevinho> larsu: still the same.... I've not been able to fix myself yet. Trying to fight with nightly panic attacks.
<larsu> Trevinho: sorry to hear. All the best!
<Trevinho> larsu: thanks
<pitti> hey larsu!
<pitti> hello Trevinho
 * seb128 just spent ~1.5 hours going through the 300 or so "most recently changed" bugs on launchpad, enough triaging for today
<seb128> (trying to do a bit of that every day since wily to keep on top of new issues reported/important ones)
<larsu> morgen pitti! Wie gehts?
<Trevinho> hi pitti
<larsu> seb128: good work! Thanks
<pitti> larsu: prima, danke!
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> shotwell is another unhappy program because of the glib file monitor improvements :-/
<seb128> segfault when editing photos with an external editor
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<larsu> seb128: "improvements"
<seb128> larsu, yeah :-)
 * didrocks will not get the card of backward compatibility in term of behaviors :p
<larsu> didrocks: that would mean we could never fix behaviour bugs
<larsu> there's a balance
<larsu> but yeah ... this situation is breaking all kinds of things
<didrocks> larsu: well, some frameworks do that and add new calls
<didrocks> or flags to enable the new "fixed" behavior
<didrocks> larsu: the extreme would be to fix "this" in javascript for instance :p
<didrocks> it's the kind of things we do, and thus, the result in crashing appsâ¦
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> like I say, it's a balance :)
<larsu> seb128: which nautilus version do you need the menubar patch for? Will we stay on 3.14?
<seb128> larsu, 3.18
<larsu> nice :)
<seb128> larsu, no, if we were to stay on 3.14 we wouldn't need a patch since that has a menubar :p
<larsu> not for me :/
<seb128> well or at least our package has one
<seb128> but it's built on old code
<larsu> ah, restart
<seb128> which got rewriten to use moder gaction, etc
<larsu> weird
<larsu> right right
<larsu> woah, got asked about which login manager I want to use, again
<larsu> and I need to restart nautilus after logging in before I have correct fonts or the global menubar
 * larsu blames xsettings not being there from the beginning
<didrocks> pitti: do you know well how subprocess and os.environ interacts? I'm really puzzled on some weird behaviors when running testsâ¦
<larsu> hm firefox theme as well
<larsu> is anyone else seeing this?
<seb128> larsu, I don't
<seb128> but I didn't upgrade yet today
<happyaron> where is the latest snappy image?
<seb128> happyaron, #snappy should know
<pitti> didrocks: normally the spawned process should inherit the parent's env, unless you explicitly set env=
<happyaron> seb128: thanks, :)
<didrocks> pitti: agreed, it's not what happens here though
<didrocks> pitti: I have reduced it to few lines, and it behaves different if I have one test class or multipleâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: if you have a minute, I have a gist to reproduce the issue: https://gist.github.com/didrocks/ae12d61138090b837c18
<pitti> didrocks: oh, are you sure that assigning the whole os.environ array works?
<pitti> didrocks: I'm not sure, but I faintly remember having run into this before too
<pitti> didrocks: untested, but can you try instead:
<didrocks> pitti: it does from the output, like the output doesn't contain http_proxy for instance
<pitti> os.environ.clear()
<pitti> os.environ.update(self.original_env)
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> pitti: but it's still weird that a impacts b, isn't it?
<pitti> i. e. keep the os.environ dict object itself unchanged, but only change its keys
<didrocks> let me try
<didrocks> (I can see that SHELL is restored though)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it passes now :)
<didrocks> I'm still unsure what happens under the hood though
<didrocks> ohhhhhhh, I see
<didrocks> so, what happens is that subprocess still reference os.environ, the original one
<pitti> didrocks: os.environ is "magic" -- changing the reference to a different object apparenlty loses that magic
<didrocks> not the one we replaced
<pitti> and you assign it to a normal "dumb" dict
<pitti> right
<pitti> you shouldn't change the object itself (i. e. the reference to it)
<didrocks> that's why it still got the env variable only if a ran
<didrocks> happened before*
<didrocks> pitti: it all makes sense now :)
<didrocks> thanks a bunch, I was really fighting on that one (first, to reduce at that state)
<didrocks> and so, if I only ran b, there was no issue, because I didn't touch os.environ assignement before
<didrocks> still weird that in this magic, when I changed b, it was changing the new os.environ that I assigned
<didrocks> but subprocess keeps using the old os.environ
<didrocks> even if not called before
<pitti> self.original_env = os.environ.copy()
<pitti> didrocks: ^ maybe the .copy() just returns an ordinary dict, not the special "magic" one that actually calls setenv()?
<pitti> but I don't know for sure
<didrocks> pitti: that would make sense, indeed
<pitti> just as far as "never assign os.environ", got burned and only remembered the "don't do that then"
<didrocks> so we don't have anymore _Environ
<didrocks> and so, it doesn't setenv()
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> pitti: rightly noted now!
<didrocks> thanks a lot
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> de rien !
<Laney> pitti: ERROR:../../test/uid-permissions.c:129:test_uae: assertion failed (dbus_message_get_type (m) == DBUS_MESSAGE_TYPE_METHOD_RETURN): (3 == 2) <- there's a related UpdateActivationEnvironment change in this release - check with smcv?
<Laney> might be that this should fail now
<Laney> (3 is error)
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hi seb128
 * Laney is looking at cake recipes
<Laney> what's up?
<seb128> how did the cake go?
<Laney> not made yet
<seb128> oh, not done yet :-)
<seb128> new gtk migrated!
<Laney> so I saw
<Laney> yay cloud
<Laney> someone can follow up with that dbus thing if they want or I can look on monday
<seb128> if somebody things it's urgent I can have a look
<seb128> otherwise I think it can wait monday
<Laney> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93036
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 93036 in core "/uid-permissions/uae/root test fails with 1.10.4" [Normal,New]
 * Laney goes to buy more ingredients now
<Laney> later!
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<seb128> oh, good, libimobiledevice transition went through
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, no will.cooke in here today?
<seb128> he said he would swap the morning
<seb128> he should be there after lunch
<seb128> speaking of lunch I start being hungry ;-)
 * didrocks does as well, going out for lunch, see you later guys :)
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<didrocks> thanks, you too seb128
<pitti> Laney: FYI, memory errors seem to be real; committed https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/commit/?id=17776035 and will re-deploy once the queue settled down
<desrt> hello desktop-types.  i hope you are having a good morning.
<seb128> hey desrt, happy friday!
<desrt> indeed!
<didrocks> phew, all tests passed, finally! :p
<pitti> didrocks: \o/
<didrocks> pitti: thanks again! And with the large tests refactoring, I divided the testing time by two!
<didrocks> (~50 minutes vs 1h40)
<pitti> wow
 * didrocks celebrated with pushing 3 new tests
<didrocks> tkamppeter: hey, why is hplip depending on pexpect? It seems just to be for testing, right? So build-dep, but not runtime dep?
<didrocks> hum, seems that hplip has a pexpect embeeded versionâ¦
<didrocks> and the dep was added in 2009 with the idea of removing the embeeded version
<didrocks> which wasn't done in 5 years :p
<didrocks> 6*
<didrocks> ok, they are using pexpect in utils.py for handling some subprocess and giving password and such to it (urgh)
<tkamppeter> didrocks, this is not done by me but by the Debian folks, perhaps a Debian bug should get reported.
<didrocks> tkamppeter: mind opening one? are you maintaining this stack as well? :)
<didrocks> tkamppeter: sounds like this kind of things shouldn't even be in main
<didrocks> maybe I should ask for some security team review, but passing password to subprocess sounds like something I would have kicked the MIR out
<didrocks> seb128: mind creating a https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ubuntu-make-builddeps ppa?
<didrocks> I want to ensure that testing/build-deps are not installed on user's machine if they add the ubuntu make ppa
<didrocks> (likeâ¦ pexpect that we install by default :/)
<seb128> didrocks, done
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: it seems that willcooke is here. I think you were looking for him ^
<didrocks> btw, good morning willcooke :-)
<willcooke> morning
<Sweet5hark> heya! :)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: was just wondering about the lack of feedback on the 2oitg thing ... but I assume, if this is "morning" you are sprinting somewhere in the US?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, just swapped some hours this week
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, seen you mail, but not digested it yet
<attente> how does someone grep the archive?
<didrocks> attente: what do you mean, grepping through all the sources ?
<attente> didrocks: yeah. i think Laney had a web interface for it, but the url doesn't work any more
<didrocks> attente: oh, I don't know about a web interface. archive admins can grep directly in the source file system, but that's it
<didrocks> attente: if you only look for file names, though, you can do it throuh a web interface
<attente> didrocks: could you do a couple greps for me? i'm looking for QT_IM_MODULE and maliitphablet
<didrocks> attente: quite late to do that (I'm leaving in ~10 minutes), could do on Monday for sure
<didrocks> or if seb128 is still there for some times, he might (or wait for Laney if he thinks there is a web interface)
<attente> ah, ok, sure. have a good w.e!
<didrocks> thanks (not left yet, but soon) ;)
<seb128> I don't know of an handy way no
<seb128> jdstrand had a script I think
<seb128> Laney had a https://codesearch.debian.net/ equivalent up somewhere
<seb128> but unsure if that's still a thing
<attente> yeah, i think it used to be http://ubuntu-codesearch.surgut.co.uk/, but it hasn't been online in a while
 * didrocks goes, see you on Monday guys!
<willcooke> see ya didrocks
<didrocks> have a good week-end willcooke :)
<seb128> have a good w.e!
<willcooke> see ya seb128
<seb128> see you on monday ;-)
<Trevinho> guys, have nice weekend !
<willcooke> see ya Trevinho
<Trevinho> willcooke: see u
<willcooke> g'night
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-21
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko pitti
<willcooke> good morning all
<Laney> doh
 * pitti waves to Britannica; hello flexiondotorg, willcooke, and Laney!
<Laney> I was out of the hive mind
<Laney> argh!
<Laney> hey pitti
<pitti> must have been a really relaxing weekend :)
<Laney> the hosting provider did a planned reboot
<willcooke> hey Laney pitti
<Laney> ho hum
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> willcooke: pitti: good weekends?
<Laney> it is m-o-i-s-t
<hikiko> hi pitti flexiondotorg willcooke Laney
 * Laney got woken up by some rain tinging down the chimney
<pitti> oh yes, it finally got sunny again, and nice and relaxing
<Laney> need to get that thing capped off
<Laney> hi hikiko!
<Laney> pitti: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ng5
<pitti> I met a prospective Debian developer from Augsburg yesterday, and we had a nice beersigning
<Laney> oh nice
<pitti> Laney: *tsk* you guys should have voted for exiting the cloud zone instead :)
 * Laney has done a couple of those
<Laney> it's nice when they are still keen ;-)
<pitti> feh, so how do I check a photo ID on a GPG key
<pitti> gpg --show-photos wants xloadimage (seriously?!), and seahorse says "pgp/seahorse-gpgme-key-op.c: line 2420 (photoid_load_transit): should not be reached"
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> hey willcooke pitti Laney
<seb128> how is everyone?
<pitti> quite well indeed, thanks! had a nice and calm weekend; comment vas-tu ?
<tjaalton> zesty lightdm seems unhappy, I only get a square viewport on top left corner, rest is blank
<pitti> tjaalton: is that after first boot, or changing user?
<seb128> is that a new issue? it didn't change since octobre
<tjaalton> pitti: first boot
<Laney> pitti: --photo-viewer or similar
<pitti> ok, then not https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/lightdm/cleanup-session/+merge/310758
<Laney> hey seb128
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> doing good! you?
<tjaalton> seb128: I upgraded on friday but didn't boot until now
<tjaalton> reboot
<seb128> doing good as well!
<seb128> pitti, Ã§a va bien
<seb128> nice relaxing sunday in France
<seb128> there for the week
<Sweet5hark> moin
<Laney> seb128: back to vote in that republican thing? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: ah, trÃ¨s bien -- le temps lÃ -bas fait mieux que aux Pays-Bas ?
<seb128> Laney, indeed!
<seb128> pitti, moins de vent mais il pleut
<tjaalton> I can log in, but unity thinks the desktop is 4x larger, I see no indicators and the ctrl-alt-del popup is in the middle of the "huge virtual desktop" so I only see a part of it on the right corner
<Laney> end of your 35 hour week is coming
<seb128> tjaalton, sounds like an xorg issue
<Laney> muhahah
<seb128> lol
<tjaalton> seb128: nothing changed there ;)
<seb128> time to move to a better country! ;-)
<seb128> tjaalton, well something must have changed, maybe kernel?
<tjaalton> still 4.8
<seb128> so nothing changed
<seb128> and still it behaves differently?
<tjaalton> yes, I'll try poke something
<seb128> can you share your apt.log?
<seb128> or dpkg log
<seb128> something must have changed
<tjaalton> yeah trying, too big for pastebinit
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney seb128 willcooke Sweet5hark
<Laney> sup flexiondotorg
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<Laney> how was the ubucon?
<Laney> that was this weekend right?
<flexiondotorg> UbuCon was marvelous!
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg!
<seb128> oh, I had forgotten about that one
<seb128> nice
<flexiondotorg> Extremely well organised. High quality talks. Amazing venue. Very friendly crowd. Great food. German beer.
<Laney> Notice how the beer isn't described as "great", but "German"
<flexiondotorg> Synonymous
<seb128> :-)
<flexiondotorg> Planning for next year is already under, it will be in Paris.
<Laney> That'll be nice
<seb128> I slightly disagree with german beer being synonymous with great
 * Laney has only seen the various Parisian train stations
<seb128> oh, nice
<Laney> (brb)
<flexiondotorg> And the French LoCo team are incredible.
<flexiondotorg> The events they have organised recently are creative, both in terms of venue (massive music festivals) and how they promote Ubuntu at the events.
<flexiondotorg> I finally got to meet everyone from the French, Spanish, Portuguese and German teams this weekend. All of whom I've had some involvement with. So really nice to meet them all and put faces to names.
<seb128> how many people were there at ubucon?
<didrocks> hey guys! :)
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: I bet you have a rpi(2 or 3) handy, correct? :)
<flexiondotorg> About 7
<didrocks> ahah :)
<flexiondotorg> WHat can I help with?
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: do you mind installing libopencv-dev on one of them and run pkg-config --static --cflags --libs opencv
<flexiondotorg> On the classic Ubuntu for Pi?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> I just want the flags for Pi
<didrocks> (or armhf, in general)
<flexiondotorg> OK, I'll get one going now. I don't have the classic image, so I'll just grab it.
<didrocks> thx!
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: oh, also, mind doing the same with just pkg-config --cflags --libs opencv?
<didrocks> (without --static)
<flexiondotorg> Sure
<didrocks> thx again :)
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, Pi installed and updating...
 * desrt reaches that "do i accept global state to simplify my program?" point
<willcooke> desrt, not a good place to be on a Monday
<willcooke> :)
<desrt> not a bad place to be, per se
<flexiondotorg> Morning desrt
<desrt> it means that the code is still clean enough that i can legitimately worry about these kinds of things :)
<desrt> moin
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, I just checked the pi, it is still installing libopencv-dev et al
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/23511385/
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: excellent! thanks a million :)
 * flexiondotorg gets lunch
 * Laney is hungry but is also fighting with clouds
<Laney> clouds win for onw
<Laney> now
 * Laney accidentally gets called/emailed/texted/slapped in the face by pagerduty
<Laney> at least that demonstrates that it's working ...
<davmor2> Laney: the clouds will always win, there are more of them, they cover the globe, they contain water/hail/snow depending on the conditions, trust me you just ain't gonna win honest ;)
<Laney> davmor2: I think this one contains acid rain
<Laney> man it looks seriously nasty outside
<davmor2> Laney: see worse still, fight the ground instead it's easier to hit ;)
<Laney> storm angus you little fiend
<willcooke> it's proper grim here.  Feels like about 5pm
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> well, asgen is now running in the production environment (not switched over yet)
<Laney> just needs one dns change to make that happen
 * Laney will keep a beady eye on it for a bit, then do that later if it's okay
 * Laney lunch
<seb128> enjoy lunch Laney!
 * Trevinho 's firefox 50 has not native emoji... Whyyy?!?!?! ð¢
<Laney> biab
<willcooke> ok, night all
<flexiondotorg> me goes to pick up my daughter...
<seb128> have a good evening desktopers!
<flexiondotorg> Night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-22
<hikiko> hello!
<pitti> Good morning
<om26er> Hi! I upgraded to Zesty and things are not looking good. unity' DPI scaling is not working for my gtk apps, also app menus are shown in both window and in menubar.
<om26er> Also this issue does not happen when I live boot zesty, only shows itself after install
<om26er> http://i.imgur.com/cLN4NSS.png
<duflu_> Hmm I never thought to try U7 in zesty. Only testing U8  :)
<pitti> om26er: that sounds familiar
<pitti> om26er: probably bug 1637758
<ubot5`> bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm greeter session not properly shut down at login" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637758
<pitti> I have a fix, but didn't get a review yet
<pitti> I'll probably just upload it to zesty before landing in trunk, as it does break a lot
<duflu> pitti: I've been wondering how hard it would be to start the Unity7 session (or anything X) with $DISPLAY pointing to Xmir (inside Unity8)...
<duflu> ?
<duflu> Xmir is my domain at the moment but I don't know how to launch an arbitrary session
<pitti> a session within a session? won't that make a lot of things 'orribly confused? (settings-daemon, different $DESKTOP_SESSIONs in different processes, etc.)
<duflu> pitti: That's what I feared. But in theory the graphics and input is ready and would work
<pitti> duflu: as a first approximation you can try "systemctl --user start ubuntu-session.target" (which is u7)
<duflu> pitti: OK, thanks
<pitti> duflu: oh, and before that systemctl --user set-environment DISPLAY=something
<duflu> I already know Compiz will run happily hardware accelerated in an Xmir window so it would be interesting
<pitti> duflu: but which u{7,8} will actually render the background, launcher, and panel  then?
<pitti> oh, nevermind
<duflu> pitti: Windowed :)
<pitti> you weren't talking about u8, just u7 underneath mir
<duflu> U7 in a U8 window
<pitti> so Xephyr/Xnest-like?
<duflu> I guess so
<duflu> Although the lag is even higher then. I need to continue working on that first
<Sweet5hark> moin
<willcooke> good morning all
<pitti> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> hey pitti.  Good, it's warm again and the rain has gone
<pitti> \o/
<willcooke> I set the heating to come on this morning and now I'm opening the window because it's too warm
<willcooke> fml
<flexiondotorg> Morning willcooke Sweet5hark pitti duflu hikiko
<Laney> meow
<duflu> Morning
<flexiondotorg> Laney, g'day
<hikiko> hi flexiondotorg willcooke Sweet5hark pitti duflu Laney
<duflu> Hey hikiko
<Laney> sup
<flexiondotorg> I watched Grand Tour last night. Reserving judgment.
<pitti> hey flexiondotorg, hey Laney, hello hikiko
<pitti> wow, at 10:00 this channel explodes with life \o/
<pitti> we went to a "Bluegrass Jamboree" in our local theater last night, was great -- nice selection of bands again
<hikiko> 11 for me :)
<Sweet5hark> morning flexiondotorg, pitti, duflu, hikiko, slightly overcooked willcooke
<duflu> Morning, morning
<pitti> moin moin Sweet5hark
<om26er> pitti: I installed lightdm 1.20.0-0ubuntu3 but it does not fix the issue that I am seeing. i.e. app-menu of gtk apps is shown twice(in top panel and in window itself). Font size changes have no effect to gtk apps
<pitti> om26er: hm, ok; you rebooted afterwards?
<om26er> pitti: no, just logged out
<pitti> om26er: sudo loginctl terminate-user lightdm
<pitti> om26er: then log out/back in again
<pitti> om26er: there were probalby some lingering lightdm sessions around; the patch fixes those, but it doesn't kill old sessions from previous lightdm versinos
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<flexiondotorg> seb128, g'day
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<om26er> pitti: reboot did fix it.
<pitti> great
<davmor2> Morning all
<flocculant> willcooke:you one of those youngsters refusing to make people use jumpers till the window has ice on it then :p
<willcooke> flocculant, damn right.  You're cold? Run around
<flocculant> but but - you had the heating on :p
<Laney> in the office only
<Laney> which nobody is allowed in so they wouldn't know
<flocculant> oh well that's ok then :p
<qengho> I need help with app icons for snapped applications. How is BAMF_DESKTOP_FILE_HINT supposed to work?
<seb128> qengho, hey, read #snappy backlog Trevinho and jdstrand were discussing that a bit earlier
<seb128> qengho, bug #1643910
<ubot5`> bug 1643910 in bamf (Ubuntu) "BAMF_DESKTOP_FILE_HINT not set in correct place for unity7" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1643910
<Trevinho> qengho: basically if you define that in the wrapper script, BAMF will use that .desktop file to match the child windows...
<Trevinho> if the app windows have WM_PID, but that should happen 99% of the time
 * Trevinho is not sure wether he would prefer realtime logs from launchpad builders, and stop hitting F5, or just the way they are as he would stay stearing at them the whole time otherwise
<seb128> do something else and come back to it later!
<didrocks> Trevinho: no downtime slacker! :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: no, it's just that... I love looking at logs of biulders when they come :-D
<Trevinho> so I've to resist
<willcooke> seb128, sorry to spring this on you...
<willcooke> seb128, school just phoned and after-school club is cancelled, so I need to go and pick up Boy#1.  Could you run the meeting for me?
<willcooke> or any other desktoppers ^
<willcooke> I'll forward the email notes from those who can't make it
<seb128> willcooke, sure, no problem
<willcooke> thanks seb128, feel free to delegate :)
<seb128> no need for that, i'm around and happy to do it
<desrt> Sad to miss the meeting, but I will be boarding in a moment.
<willcooke> safe travels desrt
<seb128> desrt, safe travel!
<desrt> danke
<desrt> Spending 1 night in Barna.  I love Europe.
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> ahh sebmeetings
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 22 15:30:37 2016 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt (out),  dgadomski, fjkong (out), flexiondotorg, happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<flexiondotorg> o/
<Sweet5hark> aye
<didrocks> o/
<attente> didrocks: joining the meeting?
<hikiko> oh seb128 I forgot and I was about to leave, could I go first if the others dont mind?
<seb128> didrocks! ;-)
<didrocks> attente: tried to see if people noticed :)
<desrt> Hi from the apron
<attente> lol
<seb128> k, let's get started then
<hikiko> I forgot to email the bullets I mean
<seb128> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: hikiko
<seb128> hikiko, your turn!
<hikiko> thank you :)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<seb128> you can go and paste your update...
<hikiko> low gfx stuff in ucc and tools and today started working on chromium-mir stuff too
<hikiko> eof
<hikiko> thank you :) +sorry
<seb128> thanks hikiko
<seb128> let's continue with our special guest
<seb128> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, hey :-p
<didrocks> hey! :)
<didrocks> * created face detection snap on armhf
<didrocks> * snaps are awesome, snap the world, snap the desktop !
<didrocks> EOF
<seb128> wooot
<flexiondotorg> :-)
<seb128> thanks didrocks ;-)
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: andyrock
<seb128> let's resume normal order!
<seb128> andyrock, hey
<seb128> oh, he's off until thursday
<seb128> sorry I forgot about that
<seb128> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: attente
<seb128> attente, your turn then!
<attente> :o
<attente> i was off friday
<attente> snapcraft jhbuild plugin ready now, submitted a PR
<attente> content-hub-glib and gtk copy-paste debugging under xenial, need someone to review the gtk part once the content-hub side lands
<attente> (which should be very soon)
<attente> (eof)
 * desrt has new work for attente :)
<seb128> nice work on the jhbuild plugin!
<flexiondotorg> Indeed!
<seb128> (on the copy-paste as well)
<seb128> thanks attente
<attente> just hoping it merges upstream...
<seb128> we can convince them I'm sure ;-)
<seb128> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: desrt
<seb128> desrt, still around, want to paste your update or should I do it?
<desrt> Please paste
<desrt> I'm on my phone, in the plane
<seb128> k
<seb128> - work continues on dconf proxy
<seb128> - finally have it under version control as wip/proxy branch on upstream
<seb128> dconf
<seb128> - the security stuff is now fully sorted (+ thanks to snap team for
<seb128> adding xdg subdir support to snappy)
<seb128> - put a fair amount of effort into starting to "robustify" the code
<seb128> (since this is a security component)
<seb128> - security-related aspects of support for flatpak-based clients is in
<seb128> place (again, with caveat about signal broadcasts not being filtered by
<seb128> flatpak)
<seb128> - now we really need to get apparmor support working (hopefully attente
<seb128> can chase up the security guys again for this)
<seb128>  
<seb128> thanks desrt ;-)
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> hey
<desrt> Thanks Seb :)
<dgadomski> no updates this week, I'm recovering from the sprint last week ;)
<dgadomski> eof
<seb128> thanks dgadomski
<seb128> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: FJKong
<seb128> fixed and upload package to debian
<seb128> #1575353 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for CQRLOG
<seb128> #1593244 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for Xnec2c
<seb128> #1575356 Gnome Software catalog entry missing for Fldigi
<seb128> firefox:
<seb128> #1498972 #1639863 is on progressing
<seb128> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: flexiondotorg
<seb128> flexiondotorg, hey!
<flexiondotorg> Hi
<flexiondotorg> Â· Background reading about Bileto.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Attended UOS sessions Tuesday/Wednesday afternoon/evening.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and updated their Trello board.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Unity 8 desktop snap testing.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Filed a bug (previously thought fixed) while building Python snaps on Launchpad (LP: #1642281)
<flexiondotorg> Â· Completed the ISV Upstream on-boarding.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1642281 in Snapcraft "Unable to build python based snap on Launchpad" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1642281
<flexiondotorg> Â· Updated some example GTK3+ snaps to current standards.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Friday/Saturday/Sunday UbuCon Europe - which was excellent!
<flexiondotorg> Â· Impromptu Raspberry Pi 3 server hosting for _didrocks. Thank goodness for fibre!
<flexiondotorg> Â· Have started contacting upstreams and ISVs (everyday) to advocate snapping of their projects/products.
<flexiondotorg> Â· Positive contact with uGet project to use snaps and adopt the GTK3 platform snap when it is available.
<flexiondotorg> ð¬
<seb128> thanks flexiondotorg
<seb128> #topic laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hej
<Laney> â¢ gstreamer 1.10 & rebase sru that got trumped by a security update (please verify if you're on x, it's been sitting for a while)
<Laney> â¢ deployed new asgen to production, some final fixes, got commit access, just need to switch dns now to make it used
<Laney> â¢ some -proposed gardening
<Laney> â¢ new glib @ debian/zesty & testfixes for that
<Laney> â¢ worked on a glib trash bug fix, asked reported to test proposed patch
<Laney> â¢ some proposed-migration babysitting
<Laney> ð
<didrocks> thanks flexiondotorg for the rpi3, that really helped! :)
<flexiondotorg> yw
<seb128> thanks Laney
<seb128> Laney, speaking of glib we got some launchpad request to update yakkety to 50.1, unsure if that's on your list (it fixes some trash issue)
<seb128> anyway not a meeting topic, let's keep moving
<seb128> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: qengho
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> * done; updated LTS chromium to fix TLS expiration. skipped yakkety for 54...
<qengho> * in-progress: Cr 54. 32-bit memory exhaustion at link. run-time crash in blink, perhaps memory allocator again?
<qengho> * in-progress: Helping Tor project adopt snaps for reproducible builder and browser.
<qengho> Away for national holiday on Thursday, maybe also Friday.
<qengho> EOF
<Laney> seb128: yes I know
<seb128> thanks qengho
<seb128> Laney, good :-)
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: seb128
<seb128> â¢ UOS - watched/participated in some sessions
<seb128> â¢ learnt a bit more about the langpack-o-matic infrastructure to be able to co-maintain it
<seb128> â¢ some NEW reviews
<seb128> â¢ had a look at the suggested dbus snapd interface (needed to unblock some GNOME components)
<seb128> â¢ tried to help did_rocks debugging some snap/alsa interactions
<seb128> â¢ worked a bit with att_ente on the roadmap for gtk-mir
<seb128> â¢ read a bit more about snap content sharing to prepare the gtk platform snap work
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Sweet5hark
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<Sweet5hark> - TDF budgeting, team priorities
<Sweet5hark> - collecting lose ends: finish/upgrade gbuild-to-ide
<Sweet5hark> - some networking/lobbying bits, filing various expenses
<Sweet5hark> - finished trusty backport, looking into precise
<Sweet5hark> - prep for 5.3 beta1
<Sweet5hark> - next week: will need to look in various gtk3/snap stuff
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<seb128> thanks Sweet5hark
<seb128> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: TheMuso
<seb128> * Started looking at the patches provided in bug 1641954 for Xenial, to provide a better experience around the use of HDMI audio to a monitor/TV. Haven't been able to reproduce yet, work continues.
<seb128> * Started looking into how input event processing for assistive technologies could be implemented in Mir and Wayland compositors/shells. Since we need this for Unity 8, it is my hope that I can start a discussion with developers of Mutter/GNOME Shell, and KDE, as well as Unity 8 devs to work out a cross-desktop solution. It will probably be a DBus API, but more may be needed, possibly along the lines of validating that the
<seb128>  process registering for input events is who they say they are, for security reasons.
<seb128> * Continued looking into bluetooth profile related issues now that the fix for bug 1574324 is in yakkety and xenial.
<ubot5`> bug 1641954 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Output switches from HDMI speakers to internal speakers on DPMS off" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1641954
<ubot5`> bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574324
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - We have support for AirPrint now! Around 2600 models, many did not work with Linux before. Works only if printer is network-connected (WiFi, Ethernet).
<tkamppeter> - cups: Got upstream answers to PPD-generator related bug reports and these got fixed for 2.2.2. In addition, 2.2.2 will have Apple Raster support (is in upstream GIT now), so AirPrint printers (around 2600 models, many did not work with Linux before) should work without driver and auto-generated PPDs, too. Tested on three HP printers and it actually works.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Synced PPD generator in cups-browsed with the one in CUPS, added auto-creation of print queues for AirPrint printers.
<tkamppeter> - Chat with Aveek Basu from Lexmark, he want to help on print dialog development, find GSoC students, and test IPP Everywhere and AirPrint printers from Lexmark.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> nice work tkamppeter, thanks!
<seb128> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, your turn :-)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed sni-qt, appmenu-qt5, libappindicator to support $SNAP environment
<Trevinho> Â· Created indicator-<toolkit> snap remote parts for snap inclusions (and desktop-launchers)
<Trevinho> Â· Created examples for indicators in snap environment: https://github.com/3v1n0/indicators-examples-snaps
<Trevinho> Â· Reviewed the Window Decorations Document for u8, Gtk+ is going to be problematic again (especially in a snappy world), so I think we'd need to find a solution
<Trevinho> Â· Landed new unity8 indicators (and new calendar) - after fixing various aspects
<Trevinho> Â· Some design reviews of indicators
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed a small indicator-datetime bug causing wrong events showing
<Trevinho> seb128: sorry for the delay
<seb128> no worry
<Trevinho>  /eof
<seb128> good/busy week again, well done Marco!
<seb128> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: robert_ancell
<seb128> - (short week due to leave)
<seb128> - Working on lightdm / unity8-system snap
<seb128> - LightDM and snapd-glib fixes / improvements
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: aob
<seb128> does anyone has some other topic to discuss?
<attente> should we talk about the gtk platform snap?
<attente> or after the meeting maybe?
<seb128> we can
<seb128> after meeting is fine
<seb128> no need to keep everybody, those interested can stay around
<seb128> k, let's wrap and discuss that?
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<attente> sure
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 22 15:50:48 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-11-22-15.30.moin.txt
<didrocks> do you need help? I gave some advice for the ubuntu-app-platform side and did the desktop-launcher work for it
<didrocks> we can base on this
<attente> can we re-use that one instead of having a new separate platform snap?
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, Does the approach differ much from how the KDE team are doing things?
<seb128> attente, re-use like?
<Sweet5hark> so what gtk version will the snap be? how will transitions work?
<didrocks> unsure about the KDE team platform snap, I never saw it
<seb128> I think we wanted to do something similar
<seb128> just with a different list of stage-packages
<seb128> no?
<flexiondotorg> That is my thinking.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, we decided to snap the distro version
<attente> like instead of having a separate snap, contribute gtk-related libraries, themes, etc to the ubuntu-app-platform snap
<seb128> so I guess we are going to have a xenial-3-18
<flexiondotorg> Would be interested to know how the ubuntu-app-platform snap is constructued.
<seb128> and a yakkety-3-20
<seb128> flexiondotorg, yeah, me too
<didrocks> pretty easily, it's just a list of stage-packages
<seb128> I need to look at it more
<seb128> especially how they export the libs
<didrocks> they didn't version the content interface though, despite what I asked multiple times
<didrocks> and in the dekstop launcher, we detect a fix directory
<seb128> I guess they mount it under a new dir that they prepend to the LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
<didrocks> and if there, we change some of LD_LIBRARY_PATH, wrappers to run and such
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ok, and one is expected to use the platform snap matching the build system (well or what one selected in launchpad) then I assume?
<didrocks> https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/blob/master/qt/launcher-specific#L12
<didrocks> and exports are in https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/blob/master/qt/launcher-specific#L35
<didrocks> + some other functions later on that I refactored
<didrocks> like https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/blob/master/qt/launcher-specific#L109
<seb128> Sweet5hark, the toolchain topic is going to be a bit tricker/not something we are looking at currently
<Sweet5hark> seb128: k
<seb128> but I think we are going to have versioned snaps by serie as didrocks suggested
<seb128> like x-3-18
<seb128> y-3-20
<flexiondotorg> I think so too.
<didrocks> sounds good to me (it's the content-interface "content" name)
<seb128> didrocks, the application side is just a plug and making sure the target dir exists for the mount?
<seb128> like $SNAP/usr/gtk-x-3-18
<didrocks> seb128: right + using the desktop launcher, but that's it
<didrocks> yeah, I suggest a subdir
<didrocks> and you put everything under it
<didrocks> we stated on $SNAP/platform for Qt
<didrocks> would be good to require the same directory name for documentation purpose
<seb128> hum
<seb128> you mean in the platform snap?
<didrocks> no, in the app
<didrocks> the app mount the platform snap inside
<didrocks> it's a bindmount
<seb128> what if the app needs to mount both qt and gtk?
<didrocks> is that really a use case ?
<seb128> they can't have the same name?
<didrocks> if so, they are on their own, meaning:
<didrocks> - they need to use their own launcher
<flexiondotorg> The KDE platform and -dev snap are in Harold Sitters github - https://github.com/apachelogger?tab=repositories
<didrocks> - but they can use both content interfaces
<flexiondotorg> Some elegant solutions in there.
<didrocks> it's the plug deciding where to mount $things
<didrocks> (the app plug)
<didrocks> but our default launchers won't be able to support $RANDOM_DEST_DIR
<seb128> k, fair enough
<seb128>  if [ ! -d $SNAP/ubuntu-app-platform/usr ] ; then
<seb128> in your github url
<didrocks> (sorry, it's ubuntu-app-platform) indeed
<didrocks> I don't remember how much we did iterate on this :)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> so, yeah, do something similar
<seb128> would it be misleading having gtk under that name?
<didrocks> preferably with -platform suffix
<didrocks> I don't think so
<seb128> ah, I see what you mean
<seb128> like ubuntu-gtk-platform
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> or gtk-platform
<seb128> attente, why did you want to reuse the same?
<seb128> or include gtk in the ubuntu-app-platform ?
<seb128> those probably have different targets and cycles
<attente> i might've misunderstood, but yeah, including gtk in u-a-p
<seb128> why?
<seb128> you probably don't want to pull in the whole uitk for a gtk software
<seb128> what's your usecase?
<attente> at the same time all of ubuntu-core is already pulled in the moment you install a snap, no?
<seb128> or what do you think we would win?
<seb128> ubuntu-core yes
<seb128> but that's the base image
<seb128> like libc type of content
<seb128> that's things going to be useful for any sort of install or almost
<didrocks> (/!\ but as I reported multiple time to upstream, installing a snap, even with default-provider, doesn't install the content-interface snap for you, nor it does autoconnect it)
<didrocks> can be useful in your testing ^
<seb128> right
<attente> ok
<seb128> thanks for pointing it out
<seb128> I think that's something gnome-software is going to need to do for us
<seb128> well that's the plan afaik, robert_ancell had some discussions with the snappy team about there where they agreed that's the wanted solution
<didrocks> that would be good :)
<didrocks> (unsure about pure CLI usage though)
<seb128> you use the CLI you need to know what you are doing ;-)
<seb128> well, at least you made the wrapper give hints from what I see
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, What is the current status of who can connect to a content snap?
<didrocks> well, you can argue apt doesn't force you to install deps ;)
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: everyone from the same provider
<flexiondotorg> What about Canonical published platform snaps?
<didrocks> reported last week as well. I don't see that status moving soon though
<didrocks> same
<didrocks> you need to publish your apps as canonical to connect to the canonical platform snaps
<flexiondotorg> So if we have a Canonical published GTK platform snap, it can not be reused by Xubuntu for example?
<seb128> those are problem to resolve for the snappy team
<seb128> and known limitations atm
<seb128> I think we should start by building our platform snap
<flexiondotorg> Yes, but just making sure my understanding is correct.
<seb128> right
<didrocks> right now, indeed
<flexiondotorg> Just to be clear, it will not be possible for upstream to use the Canonical published GTK platform snap?
<didrocks> not right now
<flexiondotorg> Bother.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, when you say they have sole elegant solutions for kde, anything specific you are thinking about?
<seb128> my view is a bit naive I guess but isn't the build mostly going to be a stack of stage-packages and some organize rules to move things in a common dir?
<seb128> like is there more to it?
<flexiondotorg> They technique they are using to make both a platform (runtime) snap and also the -dev snap to using in build-packages.
<seb128> (I didn't think much about the -dev side I've to say, but we sort of agreed that build has to be done on the distro/that's the best/easiest env for that sort of things still)
<flexiondotorg> Yes, indeed.
<flexiondotorg> I can't find the repo now, but I will.
<flexiondotorg> What they created is a means to provide all the build-packages via one "meta" snap.
<seb128> k, enough for today
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<willcooke> night seb128
<willcooke> thanks for running the meeting
<seb128> yw!
<flexiondotorg> Night, catch you tomorrow.
 * willcooke bails too
<willcooke> ta ta
<Laney> laters
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-23
<duflu> robert_ancell (or anyone): This new package 'googletest' just appear in archive and it makes all our builds break. Please remove it :)  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/googletest/+bug/1644062
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1644062 in googletest (Ubuntu) "googletest 1.8.0-2 (on zesty) breaks existing builds [add_library cannot create target "gmock" ...]" [Critical,Confirmed]
<duflu> *appeared*
<robert_ancell> duflu, don't know what that is
<duflu> Yeah it's new, as of last night. Overrides other packages
<duflu> Crap. It's inherited from Debian. Created by a non-launchpad user.
<hikiko> Hi
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> hi duflu :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<duflu> hikiko: Good, you?
<hikiko> good too
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey, do you know anything I can do to get snapd-glib into xenial faster?
<pitti> robert_ancell: as soon as someone actually tests it
<pitti> bug 1635270, right?
<ubot5`> bug 1635270 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Yakkety) "libsnapd-glib is not useful without snapd-login-service " [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635270
<robert_ancell> pitti, no, I'll fing the bug..
<robert_ancell> pitti, I think it was bug 1620159
<ubot5`> bug 1620159 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] snapd-glib" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1620159
<robert_ancell> The issue was I couldn't open a bug against the xenial snapd-glib package because it doesn't yet exist..
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh right, sorry, that was y
<robert_ancell> actually, it was bug 1616943 according to the changelog
<ubot5`> bug 1616943 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Xenial) "Can't auth against U1 in g-s" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616943
<pitti> robert_ancell: sure you can; snapd-glib does exist, you can add a xenial task
<robert_ancell> But yeah, both bugs are pretty closely related
<pitti> (exists in Launchpad's "ubuntu" BRAIN)
<pitti> ergh @ shift key
<robert_ancell> It wouldn't let me at the time...
<robert_ancell> pitti, tried now, xenial is not a checkbox on the "nominate series" page
<pitti> robert_ancell: right, because that bug already has a xenial task
<pitti> robert_ancell: I figure someone added xenial tasks and then deleted them from the snapd-glib package
<robert_ancell> oh
<pitti> robert_ancell: you can delete the x task from gnome-software as well, and then add them both back
<robert_ancell> pitti, bingo, worked!
<robert_ancell> Thanks!
<robert_ancell> pitti, so yeah, I just need snapd-glib to exist in xenial, so I can upload the g-s that will make use of it.
<pitti> robert_ancell: thanks for the lightdm review; just typing a reply
<robert_ancell> pitti, np, sorry for the delay getting back to you
<pitti> robert_ancell: ack, then that bug seems appropriate for the SRU as it explains the background
<pitti> robert_ancell: replied; I'm not entirely convinced that we should bother with TERM and wait for the session, but we can discuss that in the MP; I'll restore the patch for the time being
<pitti> robert_ancell: and then, just upload a snapd-glib backport to xenial-proposed
<robert_ancell> pitti, 1.2-0ubuntu1.1~xenial should exist in xenial-proposed, but I can't see it on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd-glib
<pitti> robert_ancell: it's in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<robert_ancell> pitti, right, so who can let it out of the queue?
<pitti> robert_ancell: any SRU team member; I'm currently restoring the lightdm patch, then I can do an SRU round
<robert_ancell> pitti, awesome, thanks.
<pitti> robert_ancell: in the meantime, you can upload the corresponding gnome-software SRU?
<robert_ancell> pitti, sure
<pitti> robert_ancell: lightdm uploaded and committed to bzr this time (as d/patch/ again)
<robert_ancell> pitti, ack
<pitti> snapd-glib accepted
<robert_ancell> pitti, uploaded, bye!
<pitti> robert_ancell: good night!
<willcooke> o/
<pitti> hey willcooke!
<Laney> morning
<willcooke> hey Laney pitti
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<willcooke> hey davmor2
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti willcooke Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke, ahoy pitti, aloha davmor2, g'day seb128
<davmor2> morning willcooke Laney and seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> hey davmor2
<Laney> I can see...
<Laney> blue sky
<Laney> and it's not raining!
<pitti> Laney: turn off the video on that monitor
<pitti> and look at the window instead :)
<didrocks> hey desktop gang! :-)
<willcooke> Laney, pics or it didnt happen
<willcooke> wait
<didrocks> roh #troll
<willcooke> I can confirm
<Laney> there we go, that is science
<davmor2> seb128, Laney: have you guys noticed no network icon if you have no connection I'm going to have a play about to double check it either friday or when I go home
<Laney> nope
<Laney> what release?
<davmor2> Laney: zesty of course
<seb128> that was reported on launchpad so it's not only you
<flexiondotorg> Good morning Laney davmor2 willcooke pitti seb128 hikiko
<seb128> do you have the lightdm update that pitti did yesterday?
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<davmor2> morning flexiondotorg
<davmor2> seb128: just upgraded now I'll have a look see
<hikiko> good morning all
 * hikiko highlights everyone's nickname 
<hikiko> how are you?
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> hey hikiko
<willcooke> Trevinho, ping for when you're about
<willcooke> errr
<willcooke> contextless
<willcooke> \o/
 * willcooke moves to query 
<seb128> willcooke, you said too much, need to give us the meat now
<willcooke> just wanting to fact check a couple of things
<willcooke> for U7
<didrocks> it sounds like politics!
<Laney> strivers and skivers
 * Laney could be a politician
<davmor2> seb128: looks like it lightdm:amd64 (1.20.0-0ubuntu2, 1.20.0-0ubuntu3)
<seb128> did you reboot since?
<davmor2> seb128: not yet but then I also have a connection let me reboot and log into guest
<hikiko> desktop irrelevant question: I'm trying to backup a whole partition with rsync because I want to delete it and install ubuntu afterwards but it takes ages, I am doing this since yesterday, do you know any faster tool?
<davmor2> seb128: okay so now it shows but about a minute after everything else is displayed
<hikiko> it's about 300GB
<seb128> davmor2, that's the bug reported on launchpad
<popey> hikiko: clonezilla
<seb128> which also claims that polkit doesn't work for a minute after login
<seb128> likely another systemd user session regression
<seb128> unsure if that's the same as pitti was working on though
<seb128> or a different issue
<hikiko> thanks popey !
<popey> np
<pitti> happyaron: Replace-Ad-Hoc-WPA-None-support-with-IBSS-RSN-PSK.patch, Revert-wifi-disable-Ad-Hoc-WPA-connections-lp-905748.patch, and wifi-Signal-on-the-wifi-device-when-its-supplicant-i.patch still exist in NM's debian/patches/ but not in series any more; can these actually be dropped?
<pitti> seb128, davmor2: haven't followed the entire conversation, but you can disable the systemd user session in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/00upstart -- comment out/disable the "if" block that adds /usr/share/upstart/systemd-session to XDG_CONFIG_DIRS
<pitti> doing that is useful -- many of these bugs come from the switch to dbus-user-session, but some are certainly also bugs in the systemd units
<willcooke> pitti, happyaron is off sick atm - probably back next week
<seb128> pitti, davmor2 is reporting that nm-applet is taking a minute to load after login on zesty (and we had a report mentioning that polkit has the same issue)
<pitti> willcooke: ah, thanks
<pitti> seb128: hm, I haven't see that one yet; most likely not related to the lightdm fix
<seb128> k
<davmor2> pitti: okay cool
<desrt> does anyone know how to make valgrind treat individual "possibly lost" cases as reachable?
<desrt> ie: i know some locations where some fishy pointer math is going on... i don't want to suppress them entirely... i just want valgrind to know that, indeed, they are reachable via mangled pointers (if valgrind finds any such pointers)
<desrt> and otherwise, they are, indeed, lost
 * seb128 doesn't know
<desrt> annoying.
<willcooke> oh, Autumn Statement is on and I missed the start
<willcooke> no it's not.  The BBC is confusing me
<seb128> is that the budget discussion La_ney was mentioning earlier?
<desrt> MemCheck:Leak \n match-leak-kinds:possible
<desrt> this gets pretty close to doing the right thing...
<willcooke> seb128, yeah
<Laney> willcooke: 12:30
<Laney> do you feel like you're Just About Managing?
 * Laney hides behind hands
<willcooke> sounds about right
 * Laney enjoys an organic kale and quinoa smoothie
 * Laney the metropolitan liberal elite
 * willcooke shakes his Guardian 
<Laney> I actually have one of those ...
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> looks like python2.7 2.7.12-7 breaks bzr
<seb128> hey ricotz, that might be a topic better placed on #ubuntu-devel for doko and/or barry
<ricotz> seb128, hi, I see, right
<davmor2> Laney: we are all jammin....jammin.....jammin....with the money we got
 * Laney dist-upgrades from x to z without going through y
<Laney> LIFE ON THE EDGE
<jcastro> hey everyone, the Valve guys are updating their package to support PS4 controllers and are adding new udev rules, I've filed the changes here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/steam/+bug/1644196
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1644196 in steam (Ubuntu) "Update udev rules to the latest upstream set" [Undecided,New]
<jcastro> if someone has time to update these it would be lovely.
<willcooke> Should probably mark that against udev as well as Steam
<willcooke> at least I think so,
<jcastro> ack
<seb128> that's not in systemd nowadays?
<tjaalton> what draws the background of unity greeter?
<tjaalton> nautilus it seems
<tjaalton> downgrading that makes lightdm slightly happier here
<tjaalton> while it still thinks the canvas is much bigger than my screen
<tjaalton> [+2,91s] DEBUG: main-window.vala:187: Screen is 1600x900 pixels
<tjaalton> [+2,91s] DEBUG: main-window.vala:195: Monitor 0 is 3200x1800 pixels at 0,0
<tjaalton> before it was 1600x900 for both, after scaling
<tjaalton> in yakkety that is
<Laney> Before what?
<Laney> Nautilus isn't used there
<seb128> tjaalton, hum, I don't think nautilus is being used in the greeter no, that wouldn't make much sense
<tjaalton> upgrading to zesty
<tjaalton> well downgrading nautilus at least helped
<tjaalton> downgrading lightdm did not
<seb128> how helped?
<seb128> did you drowngrade gtk as well?
<seb128> or gnome-desktop?
<tjaalton> I only had a square "box" of the greeter visible on top left corner
<tjaalton> no
<seb128> could be a coincidence
<tjaalton> now I have the whole screen but the greeter is still "huge"
<tjaalton> because it thinks the screen is bigger
<seb128> xorg/driver issue?
<tjaalton> no
<seb128> or gtk/gnome-desktop one?
<tjaalton> nothing changed there
<tjaalton> dunno
<tjaalton> I'm open for suggestions
<tjaalton> what to downgrade
<seb128> I would try downgrading gtk
<tjaalton> ok
<tjaalton> uh
<tjaalton> now it's removing half of the system, damn
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> you might need to have a yakkety source and /yakkety things that depends on the new gtk
<tjaalton> I have yakkety added back to sources
<tjaalton> yep, I have lightdm back as before
<tjaalton> apt install libgtk-3-0=3.20.9-1ubuntu2 gir1.2-gtk-3.0=3.20.9-1ubuntu2 libclutter-gtk-1.0-0=1.8.0-1 gir1.2-totem-1.0=3.22.0-0ubuntu1 libtotem0=3.22.0-0ubuntu1 libgail-3-0=3.20.9-1ubuntu2 libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.20.1-1
<tjaalton> it stil removed totem and something
<tjaalton> should unity8 run as guest?
<tjaalton> probably not, complains about some permissions
<tjaalton> filed bug 1644240
<ubot5`> bug 1644240 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "lightdm greeter not shown properly on zesty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644240
<davmor2> seb128, Laney, willcooke: are there any automated test for installing snap packages through software center?
<willcooke> davmor2, just talked to j_ibel about that briefly.  Don't think so, but if you want to start a thread with Robert Ancell please cc me in
<davmor2> willcooke: awesome thanks
<seb128> don't think so either
<seb128> tjaalton, the gtk guess was right then ;-)
<tjaalton> yeah
<ricotz> tjaalton, gtk 3.22.x?
<ricotz> 3.22.4-1ubuntu1 includes some hidpi scale-factor fixes
<tjaalton> ricotz: I had 3.22.2-0ubuntu1
<ricotz> tjaalton, I guess 3.22.4 will fix the issue you had
<tjaalton> cool
<tjaalton> any idea why unity-greeter doesn't list gnome available on the session list?
<tjaalton> upgrade probably broke/removed something
<ricotz> gnome-session is installed?
<tjaalton> yep
<ricotz> tjaalton, with "gnome" you mean gnome-shell?
<tjaalton> yes
<tjaalton> ah, it's not installed..
<tjaalton> oh right, gtk downgrade removed it hehe
<ricotz> better pick 3.22.4 from proposed
<ricotz> gtk+
<tjaalton> sure
<tjaalton> I'll just try again tomorrow
<Laney> would be good to know if it works for you
<tjaalton> alright
<Laney> FAIL: test_pep8_clean (test_pep8.TestPep8Clean)
 * Laney stabs pep8 in testsuites
<Trevinho> didrocks: there are various repeated parts in https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml, I was wondering...Couldn't those be replicated using the - after: instead?
<didrocks> Trevinho: no, the parser doesn't have support otherwise for this
<didrocks> Trevinho: the repetition will be removed once we say we don't support / anymore in parts name
<didrocks> but it needs proper announcement and such
<Trevinho> didrocks: sure...
<didrocks> Trevinho: the whole repetition is due to this namespace change transitionâ¦
<Trevinho> yeah, I know... I was just wondering if there was a way to avoid it, but it seems not
<didrocks> Trevinho: maybe you are right with after: but I won't test it (the server-side parser is quite hard to grasp)
<didrocks> so I will just duplicate and want for it to die in a couple of months
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah... Unfortunately it's not that easy to test remote parts... It would be nice to have a way to mock it
<didrocks> yep!
 * Trevinho looks reviewers for https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/libappindicator/incons-paths-on-snap/+merge/311424
<Laney> isle of man parliament T _ N _ A _ D
<davmor2> Laney: 16.04.1 daily iso should it have snapd on by default?
<Laney> davmor2: There's a compmonent mismatch (xdelta) so its not installable
<davmor2> Laney: ah cool thanks for a minute I thought https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6hY_50Dh0
<Laney> this better be the x-files theme
<Laney> close enough
<ximion> Laney: the only missing bit for asgen is the "update data from old suites" feature, right?
<Laney> hey ximion
<Laney> missing how?
<Laney> ximion: oh you mean feature requests?
<Laney> that and PPAs
<ximion> jup
<ximion> okay, PPAs weren's supported by dep11gen as well and are a lot more work
<Laney> updating wasn't either
<Laney> was it?
<ximion> no
<ximion> updating will need changes in AppStream itself too
<ximion> I haven't finalized a plan for it, but I have an idea
<ximion> I need to chat with the APT guys first to see if they have a better one
<Laney> you mean because of the origin?
<ximion> yes, although the origin field isn't much of a problem, the duplicate IDs however are an issue
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> I thought dataPriority would sort that out
<Laney> or Priority or whatever it's called in the spec
<ximion> I am drowning in work at time, so I am currently sifting through tasks and priorizing them
<Laney> anyways
<Laney> if you write down your idea on the bug then I would be happy to help implementing
<Laney> drowning in real work is probably good ;-)
<ximion> DataPriority is super inefficient, since we read & parse & download everything and then throw everything away. We also can not delete any component that way
<Laney> after ximion's world tour of 2016
<ximion> yeah...
<ximion> zlatan being away and me having his managing work too doesn't exactly help ^^
<Laney> heh
<Laney> I see, you might want something in the header to completely disable another file
<ximion> also, lab is crazy busy, I am never home before 6 p.m.
<ximion> Laney: that, *or* have the APT glue code ignore a file based on its filename, *or* have APT do that for me
<ximion> the latter would prevent us from downloading needless data, which would be pretty nice
<Laney> you probably want an *and* there
<Laney> I think that the Endless dudes are doing something about shipping appstream post release too
<Laney> sort of following what they were saying in #gnome-software aanyway
<ximion> so we have logic like "if "origin-sru" file is present, do not process "origin" file"
<ximion> Laney: but endless has a very different system of shipping software...
<Laney> ostree-core thing
<Laney> but the problem seems similar
<ximion> normally, the data shipped at the time of build should be final
<ximion> the only time you want to update it is if there were asgen changes and you need them in the stable suite
<Laney> might want to override the description, icon, ship more translations
<ximion> which should be a less and less important case, nevertheless we have this problem now
<Laney> probaby the last one is the one they care about
<Laney> worth chatting imho
<ximion> since upstream is doing the l10n stuff in AppStream, this isn't really in its design - since you can't update the l10n data without also updating the app itself
<ximion> it's pretty much a clash of the "upstream" vs the "distro" deploy model
<ximion> hmm, I think at Debian l10n data is frozen together with everything else on release
<ximion> so the whole archive - including l10n - becomes immutable
<ximion> but I never really looked at that very closely (but since l10n works the same way AppStream does in Debian, they will have the same problems)
<Laney> ximion: I think for distros (at least for us) it's an asgen bugs (or -dep11 -> asgen) use case
<Laney> or if we're being ambitious maybe enabling other types
<Laney> I'm saying that this other case might be useful to think about as apart of the same problem
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/src/plugins/gs-plugin-external-appstream.c <- that thing I think
<Laney> not sure how it works
<Laney> thisssss wifi
 * Laney should pay for tethering
<seb128> it's ridiculous that providers block that/make it a paying option
<xnox> what's blocked?
<Laney> My phone does something to tell them that I'm tethering
<xnox> they count the hops on the packets.
<xnox> without your phone telling them.
<Laney> Nope
<Laney> it works if I change phones
<xnox> you can root your phone and run transparent proxy on it, i think to bypass.
<xnox> sigh
<ximion1> Laney: yeah, I asked richard about the polkit policy for installing AppStream data, because I found it to be really weird, and he said that it was something exclusively for endless
<Laney> I think it must add another interface or something
<xnox> Laney, don't you love the closed-source software defined radio stack in the phones modems?! =)
<Laney> ximion1: seems weird
<Laney> *but* you might care about the appstream side of it in this context
<Laney> because I'm not sure what g-s is doing with these random AppStream files
<ximion1> Laney: me neither... GS is sometimes using AS in weird ways, because hughsie was/is in some "make everyone happy as soon as possible" mode :P - so at least in the past, some weirdness and workarounds were added
<Laney> ximion1: that's why I'm trying to hint you over there :P
<ximion1> e.g. GS is way less sensitive about metadata collisions and just does a relatively complex merge to show as much data as possible
<ximion1> (I am not super-happy about that, since it makes finding out where data came from harder)
<ximion1> yes, the main "problem" is that people use AS in a lot of different ways, and especially for problems it was not designed to solve (e.g. a replacement for *all* package metadata)
<ximion1> I need to write more mails, more blog posts (there is still one pending on the last release...)
<ximion1> but time...
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> right, back in a bit
<seb128> k, calling it a day here
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers!
<seb128> see you tomorrow
<willcooke> cya seb128
<seb128> bye willcooke
<willcooke> night all
<tjaalton> Laney, ricotz: looks like newer gtk fixed my bug
<ricotz> tjaalton, go go mesa 13
<tjaalton> took two hours to upload..
<tjaalton> network was ba-a-a-a-d
<Laney> tjaalton: good, so let's fix tests to get it to migrate ;-)
<Laney> (will look tomorrow)
<Laney> ximion1: btw, asgen is deployed
<Laney> http://appstream.ubuntu.com/
<ximion1> Laney: wohoo! Amazing!
<ximion1> the front-page sorting is weird, maybe I should use a sorted list as input there instead of the raw dict keys :P
<ximion1> heh, xenial even has the old html pages, nice!
<ximion1> Laney: at some point in the near future, I want to switch the .desktop file reading code to use the libas routines instead of its own implementation. I also want to make the archive-handling code refcounted instead of GC managed
<ximion1> both changes are big and have a high regression potential - the first one might make your langpack stuff harder, but I'll need to look into that - it could also just require very minor adjustments
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-24
<FJKong> chrisccoulson: ping
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: very good, thanks! a bit tired still, but had a great basketball game last night
<pitti> et toi ?
<didrocks> pitti: trÃ¨s bien :-) however weather is rainy this week, so hard to find some spots to run :)
<flocculant> didrocks: find one dry spot and run on it :p
<didrocks> flocculant: haha, staying still :-)
<flexiondotorg> pitti, didrocks, flocculant Morning!
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg!
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> yo yo
<pitti> Laney: hey hey
<davmor2> Morning all
<flexiondotorg> Good morning Laney, willcooke, davmor2
<willcooke> howdy howdy howdy!
<desrt> this is my favourite part
<desrt> good morning willcooke, flexiondotorg, davmor2, pitti, Laney, didrocks and seb128 (since he's so obviously lurking)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<desrt> !!
<willcooke> ha! called it
<seb128> hey desrt
<pitti> heey desrt, guten Morgen! Wie gehts?
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128
<seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
<desrt> pitti: 'meh' :p
<flexiondotorg> Morning desrt seb128
<didrocks> hey desrt
<FJKong> chrisccoulson: ping
<seb128> FJKong, hey, you better include some context in that ping if you want a reply, chris than to be busy and might not reply without details
<FJKong> seb128: ok ok
<seb128> than->tend
<pitti> seb128: je vais bien, merci ! bon basketball match hier soir
<seb128> ah, mercredi le jour du basket ;-)
<andyrock> good morning all :)
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<hikiko> hi
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> seb128: rested and relaxed you? XD
<seb128> I'm alright! a bit tired but it's ok ;-)
<seb128> andyrock, what do you hack on this week?
<andyrock> seb128: holidays but I've been  working on my thesis so yeah hacking on holidays too
<seb128> andyrock, oh, you were off work a few days right? had some holidays/fun?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> right, I just remembered, sorry :-)
<willcooke> oh, broken icon when updating cache from Software & Updates
<seb128> where? what serie?
<willcooke> Xenial, when "updating cache"
<willcooke> just looking at the python code
<seb128> in the unity launcher?
<willcooke> sorry, gtk-software-properties
<seb128> I've it matching the software&update icon
<seb128> just having a second >
<seb128> since it's another dialog from the same application
<willcooke> http://imgur.com/a/SOfsm
<seb128> 0_o
<seb128> I don't see that issue on my xenial...
<willcooke> heh
<willcooke> probably a hangover from me messing around with themes
<seb128> could be yeah
<willcooke> seb128, trying to install the proposed version of g-s
<willcooke> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/3.20.1+git20161013.0.d77d6cf-0ubuntu2~xenial1
<willcooke> but apt-cache policy says it's not there
<willcooke> is this likely a mirror thing?
<seb128> right
<seb128> no, see the icons next to the builds
<seb128> depwaiting
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> got it
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> " Missing build dependencies: libsnapd-glib-dev "
<seb128> SRU team needs to promote snapd-glib to main
<seb128> pitti, ^ is that something you can help with?
<pitti> err, I thought I accepted it into main already
<seb128> hum
<pitti> oh, maybe not binNEW
<pitti> right! https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=0
<pitti> looking
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> it's in binNEW
<seb128> I technical can click that in but I'm not in the SRU team
<pitti> accepted, and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/3.20.1+git20161013.0.d77d6cf-0ubuntu2~xenial1 is dep-wait, so it should auto-retry
<willcooke> thanks pitti seb128
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> de rien
<willcooke> seb128, Jonas asked if we could take a look at this to fix a U8 keyboard layout issue
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop/+bug/1644268
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1644268 in gnome-desktop (Ubuntu) "GnomeDesktop-WARNING **: Failed to load XKB rules file" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Looks easy enough, what do you think>?
<seb128> willcooke, sure, I'm adding it to my todo
<willcooke> nice one, thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
 * flexiondotorg lunches
<pitti> Laney: hm, are you using juju-2.0 locally?
<pitti> it still worked fine in zesty last week (I went through it with seb128), but it seems bootstrap stopped working
<pitti> is that by any chance somethign you stubled over?
<Laney> pitti: no, I don't use it at all locally actually
<pitti> Laney: ack, thanks; there was some miniscule chance :)
<Laney> pitti: I had some problem setting it up - forgot what now - and didn't try since :(
<pitti> Attempting to connect to 10.0.4.32:22
<pitti> mine is hanging forever at this step
<Laney> I think I was trying with lxd
<pitti> the lxd container is up, but there's no key installed in ~ubuntu/.ssh/authorized_keys
 * Laney got IS to make a staging tenant and used that instead
<Laney> (for appstream)
<pitti> I'm not entirely sure how that's supposed to work, but I guess that's the problem
<Laney> :)
<pitti> heh
<hikiko|ln> question:
<hikiko|ln> I want to install distcc
<hikiko|ln> but x, y and z have different gcc versions
<hikiko|ln> is it safe to use the latest gcc or is better to downgrade the zesty gcc?
<pitti> IMHO best to use chroots, and use the same chroot on every slave
<hikiko|ln> chroots?
<hikiko|ln> I want to use all the cpus that are available for compiling at home pitti
<pitti> sure
<hikiko|ln> does chroot do the same thing?
<hikiko|ln> I didn't understand :)
<pitti> no, I mean build in a chroot on every slave
<pitti> and use the same x or y or z chroot everywhere
<pitti> instead of installing gcc and the build deps on directly on the target
<hikiko|ln> oh chroot for gcc
<pitti> s/target/slave/
<hikiko|ln> good idea :)
<hikiko|ln> let's see if that's easy to do
<hikiko|ln> or maybe I can just build the most recent gcc somewhere and export CC.. blah
<seb128> hikiko, why do you need the new gcc?
<Laney> -Wmisleading-indentation # awesome warning
<hikiko> seb128, distcc requires that all the computers you use to compile something have the same cc version
<seb128> you use several computers to build the same thing?
<hikiko> so I was thinking that it's better to install the Z version than downgrade z, but I'll just build it, I probably don't need it system wide
<hikiko> seb128, not yet
<hikiko> but that's the plan
<seb128> just curious but why do you need that?
<hikiko> distcc claims that it can use all the available cpus on the network
<seb128> Laney, did you catch some bug thanks to it?
<hikiko> because chromium takes ages to compile
<hikiko> :)
<Laney> seb128: yeah
<hikiko> and this laptop has 2 cpus only
<Laney> I think it was that one that told me I forgot some {}
<seb128> Laney, nice!
<hikiko> but the new laptop has 8 cores and the desktop 4
<hikiko> so I could use 16 :)
<hikiko> -j16
<hikiko> and make it 16 times faster
<hikiko> 8 times*
<pitti> well
<pitti> you need to substract the network bandwidth and latency
<hikiko> yeah
<pitti> which is usually considerable
<seb128> it's a balance
<hikiko> but it's a lan
<pitti> compiling C++ takes ages, and distcc might be worth it
<hikiko> won't it be fast enough?
<seb128> you can experiment
<pitti> but compiling a single .c file is usually quite fast, and the network latency might just be worse than that
<seb128> let us know how it works for you
<pitti> right, doesn't hurt to try
<pitti> but don't expect miracles :)
<pitti> (particularly not over wifi)
<hikiko> yeah I'm not gonna use wifi
<seb128> I would probably just try with some ccache on the machine with the best cpu
<seb128> but it might be an interesting experimental
<hikiko> I've tried ccache but caching causes several other probs
<seb128> experiment
<hikiko> it's useful for maintainers
<hikiko> but if you change your files frequently
<hikiko> caching = nightmare
<hikiko> then you have to make clean to get rid of errors
<hikiko> and it's slower
<Trevinho> Laney, hey... I would probably need some help/review with these packaging bits https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/update-notifier/fix-pep8-style/+merge/311683
<Trevinho> As autopkg tests and building was broken in zesty
<seb128> Trevinho, hey! how are you? why are you working on update-notifier? ;-)
<Trevinho> hikiko: anyway... Yeah, use schroot. If you configure it well, you basically have an environment you can do what you want without breaking anything.
<didrocks> Trevinho: did you update the cloud wiki today? https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen/issues/269
<didrocks> I don't even find back the url
<didrocks> but I can confirm that since I merged your changes, they disappeared
<Trevinho> didrocks: let me see :o
<Trevinho> didrocks: no change to the wiki...
<Trevinho> didrocks: it might be an issue of snapcraft not supporting remote on remote? :o
<didrocks> Trevinho: well, this works for ubuntu-app-platform though
<didrocks> Trevinho: but yeah, let me try to revert your changes
<didrocks> and see if next pass works
<Trevinho> didrocks: let's ask in #snappy to sergio, or maybe there's some logging of the server around
<Trevinho> didrocks: ubuntu-app-platform has not an after statement isn't it?
<didrocks> Trevinho: sergio didn't write the importer
<didrocks> Trevinho: it's joe, and today is off for the us
<didrocks> it seems to be an importer issue
<didrocks> Trevinho: meanwhile, I reverted, and let's see if this appears soon (~1h at worst)
<Trevinho> didrocks: it should be less... I think there's a cron every hour
<Trevinho> didrocks: otherwise, I'd need to redefine these parts inside the helper... and I don't like much that, but... well if there's no other way
<didrocks> Trevinho: I hope it's at the top of the clock!
<didrocks> Trevinho: let's see first if the theory is correct
<didrocks> nobody edited the wiki in days, so not the wiki itself
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, not.... when I added my parts it was fine afterwards
<Trevinho> but I guess it will be like: hey I depend on this part... ok, which part=?! I don't know it, and I've not parsed it yet
<Trevinho> didrocks: ah.... wait, maybe it might be because it's listed later in the wiki? :-D
<didrocks> Trevinho: could be
<didrocks> Trevinho: but better to wait for people supporting the importer being here
<Trevinho> didrocks: yeah, since you reverted... I'd have tried... but let's wait
<didrocks> first, let's get back to a working status (especially if the US aren't around until Monday)
<didrocks> well, people depend on it :)
<didrocks> we need to get back to a working state ASAP
<Trevinho> didrocks: sure, sure... In fact I should try with some test branches instead
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> Trevinho: mmmmmmmmm don't understand the packaging changes
<Trevinho> Laney: they might be wrong ð
<Laney> what are you trying to do?
<Trevinho> Laney: make it build
<Trevinho> Laney: it was failing without these
<Trevinho> Laney: it wasn't triggering autogen
<Laney> you had to fiddle with multiarch stuff?
<Laney> seems suspicious
<Trevinho> Laney: also there are multiple scripts depending on the fact it's in /usr/lib/..
<Trevinho> Laney: I didn't want it to be in arch triplet
 * Laney tries to build it
<Trevinho> Laney: it's a zesty only issue eh
<Laney> why did sbuild start being so slow :(
<Laney> I: Built successfully
<Laney> no changes from zesty
<ximion> Laney: could LP: #1644498 be an artifact of the asgen switch?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1644498 in appstream (Ubuntu) "apt-get update returns "AppStream cache update completed, but some metadata was ignored due to errors." periodically" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644498
<Trevinho> Laney: with proposed?
<Laney> Trevinho: of course
<Trevinho> Laney: it failed in the ppa last night...
<Trevinho> Laney: no changes at all, or my branch?
<Laney> ximion: in what way?
<Laney> Trevinho: no changes
<ximion> Laney: maybe the data was broken temporarily and the mirror got busted data...
<willcooke> dinner and quittin' time - night all
<Laney> ximion: I see it too on xenial
<Laney> it's saying everything in xenial-updates is invalid
<ximion> the data looks fine though...
<Laney> must be libas in xenial
<ximion> Laney: oh, let me check something...
<Laney> ximion: Trevinho: got to go, will check in later if possible (off tomorrow)
<ximion> Laney: I found the bug
<ximion> will prepare a patch
<Laney> ximion: nice, will upload later, thanks!
<Laney> (what is it?)
<ximion> Laney: the data has 0.10 as minimum compatibility level, while the stuff in Xenial is too old
<ximion> can easily be solved with one simple patch to the appstream package
<Laney> oh right
<Laney> not a problem is it?
<ximion> (or switching asgen back to a lower compat-level, but solving this in appstream is better, since we already have support in asglib too)
<ximion> not a big issue
<Laney> cool
<Laney> Trevinho: Just took your first commit, built, ran through autopkgtest -> passed
 * Laney will upload that
<seb128> was the build issue a side effect of you bumping the debhelper compat?
<Laney> that's why it got multiarched
<Laney> guessing there was a problem before otherwise he wouldn't have tried random things
<Laney> probably
<Laney> anyways, keep an eye on LP, sorry if it doesn't build /o\
<Laney> probably want to retry the tests with --trigger update-notifier/3.177 added after this is published
 * Laney is off
<Laney> bye!
<seb128> Laney, have a nice w.e!
 * seb128 wonders why Trevinho is building update-notifier to start with
<flexiondotorg> Night desktopers
<Trevinho> Laney: this is what I get http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23528583/
<Trevinho> seb128: because it caused the autopkgtests for libindicator failed otherwise
<Trevinho> to fail*
<seb128> night flexiondotorg
<Trevinho> Laney: let me see your package, it's just weird that it failed in the same way (the normal version, without my hacks) locally and in the bileto ppa
<Trevinho> Laney: tomorrow if you can unblock this would be cool https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2208
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-25
<pitti> Good morning
<alan_g> hikiko: the Mir docs you were after yesterday are online: http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir-docs/0.25/group__mir__toolkit.html (This is a test location - it will hopefully move to http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir in a day or two)
<hikiko> thanks alan_g, I've got a quick look already
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> The great orange thing is back in the sky today
<didrocks> give it back to us!
<didrocks> hey willcooke :)
<willcooke> hey didrocks!
<flexiondotorg> Yawn... morning pitti, hikiko, didrocks, willcooke
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
<willcooke> howdy flexiondotorg, happy Friday!
<flexiondotorg> didrocks, I'm talking to an upstream who adopted FlatPak.
<flexiondotorg> They were not so interested in Snaps until I mentioned git mirroring and multi-architecture builds and auto store publishing available in Launchpad.
<didrocks> nice!
<didrocks> I did use git mirroring yesterday, worked nicely
<flexiondotorg> Their project has a reserved name, so just sort of the name dispute and they are set to publish :-)
<didrocks> quite a delay though when activating git mirroring + auto snap build
<flexiondotorg> Yes.
<didrocks> like pushed code at 5PM
<didrocks> got it in the store at 11PM
<flexiondotorg> The "Build now" button is your friend.
<didrocks> well, if we want autobuild, not
<flexiondotorg> I need to see what can be acheived with the existing webhooks.
<didrocks> and you can't force cloning right away
<flexiondotorg> I know they are now complete, but there is something.
<didrocks> so you are stuck on this at least
<flexiondotorg> I think the git importer mirrors 4 times a day.
<flexiondotorg> Force cloning?
<didrocks> yeah, and so, if you want to get your snap built right away, you would like to be able to start mirroring
<didrocks> like "I just pushed some code, please mirror, please build"
<flexiondotorg> Right, understood.
<davmor2> Morning all
<willcooke> hey davmor2
<flexiondotorg> davmor2, o/
<willcooke> 6 days before I can add mince pies to the shopping list
<pitti> willcooke: first advent?
<willcooke> The unwritten law of Christmas
 * pitti is looking forward to the Stollen that has been patiently waiting on the porch for weeks now
<willcooke> No tree before December, lest you be cast off the island
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Mince pies are not just for Christmas!
<willcooke> :) that's the spirit flexiondotorg
<davmor2> willcooke: but you've been able to have mincing tarts in your house for weeks....oh sorry that strictly come dancing not the same thing
<willcooke> :)
<davmor2> willcooke: I bought new lights I'm desperate to put them up but wifey will snap and kill me if I do before December I think so next weekend they'll go up \o/
<tjaalton> Laney: for some reason the sru tools say "no lp bugs" about the glib2.0 backport
<tjaalton> so I wonder how tracking will work
<andyrock> morning all
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<willcooke> night all
<gstaniak> is this a place i can ask about dconf and gsettings?
<flocculant> gstaniak: this isn't a support channel - try #ubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-26
<Laney> tjaalton: I probably had the wrong DEB_VENDOR, will reupload
<Laney> (done)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-20
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<jibel> I'm doing the SRU verification of g-s-d in artful. Anyone would know how to reproduce the "custom binding" bug mentioned in https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/NEWS ?
<Laney> hey hey
<didrocks> hey Laney
<didrocks> jibel: looking at the commits, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=8778c2dd422f2a3589f24394896710284eff545f, I would say:
<didrocks> 1. create a custom binding in g-c-c (one binding which runs a command, like a shell script)
<didrocks> 2. change this custom binding command it's pointing at and try the key combination
<didrocks> (or change the associate key combination and try again)
<jibel> didrocks, yes, that's what I understood and did too, but it works fine with current version in artful
<jamesh> Looking at the diff, it was only updating if the keyboard shortcut changed: not the command behind the shortcut
<jamesh> jibel: maybe try creating the custom binding in gnome-control-center, and then change the command with dconf-editor?
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, you came to the same conclusion than I, changing the command behind the shortâ¦
<didrocks> shorcut*
<didrocks> I doubt this is a g-c-c vs dconf-editor, what replaces what is quite opaque to g-s-d (only listening to gsettings events)
<jamesh> didrocks: right, but if g-c-c updates things in such a way that both settings get changed at once, it might not be possible to trigger there
<didrocks> jamesh: oh, good idea
<didrocks> so yeah, jibel dconf-editor, only change the "command" key, as jamesh hinted ^
<jibel> didrocks, jamesh I can reproduced now, thansk
<jibel> ks*
<jibel> -d
<didrocks> ok, I think it's really minor :p
<didrocks> most of people would use g-c-c to update the keybindings when using custom command IMHO
<jibel> didrocks, it's reproducible even with g-c-c
<jibel> just being thorough and verifying upstream bugs, but they are poorly documented
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, unsurprisedâ¦ good luck
<Laney> hey didrocks jibel & jamesh
<Laney> all good?
<jibel> hi Laney
<jibel> yep, all good
<jibel> I finally have internet :)
<jibel> just took a month
<didrocks> Laney: lacking some sleep, otherwise, good! Yourself? :)
<jibel> and I'm in the city center, I cannot imagine how long it would have taken if I lived in the country side :D
<didrocks> jibel: time to download some ubuntu isos then! ;)
<jibel> didrocks, time to push some major changes so there is something to test ;)
<didrocks> heh
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, bon week-end ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, trÃ¨s bon week-end, et toi?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va ;) un peu des nuits difficiles, mais globalement, bien, merci ! ;)
<seb128> hey again desktopers
<oSoMoN> hey seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<didrocks> re seb128
<oSoMoN> seb128, my libreoffice test build with the upstream proposed patch for ICU 60 seems to work well, I'll prepare source packages with a clean version number
<seb128> oSoMoN, ah, nice, they did more changes after you pointed out the test issue?
<oSoMoN> seb128, that's https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/44871 , a patch currently under review
<seb128> great
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.2/bionic3/
<seb128> oSoMoN, 'ci
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, I validated the chromium stable update to 62.0.3202.94 in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages , it's good to go as far as I'm concerned
<seb128> oSoMoN, seems like the libreoffice SRU got accepted
<oSoMoN> great
<Trevinho>  Morning guys
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho!
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Laney> congrats to oSoMoN ;-)
<seb128> I assume it's in context of his ppu?
<oSoMoN> it is :)
<oSoMoN> thanks Laney
<seb128> oSoMoN, well done :)
<oSoMoN> thanks seb128
<didrocks> sweet oSoMoN, congrats! ;)
<oSoMoN> thanks didrocks
 * Laney shares the secret handshake
<sil2100> Well job, good done oSoMoN!
<oSoMoN> thanks sil2100
<seb128> next libreoffice :p
<oSoMoN> yup
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, awesome, congrats!
<oSoMoN> thanks kenvandine
<Laney> while true; do trivial_tinker; sleep 600; echo ARGH; done
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, do you think you could make me an admin of https://launchpad.net/~chromium-team so I can create PPAs? (I want to move my chromium-stable, chromium-next and chromium-dev PPAs over to the team)
<Laney> the oSoMoN power grab begins
<Laney> muhahah
<oSoMoN> hehe
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Has lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntu been abandoned in bionic?
<infinity> So, my gnome-shell just exited spontaneously for the first time I switched.  How/where does that get logged in a way that I can try to determine why?
<infinity> Laney, darkxst, jbicha ^
<sarnold> infinity: did you happen to hit ^C in a terminal?
<mdeslaur> sarnold: WAT?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1710637
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1710637 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Input falls through to gdm3 and terminates the session on Ctrl+C after udevadm trigger is executed under wayland" [High,Fix released]
 * mdeslaur cries
<infinity> sarnold: Yes.  Yes I did.  Double-U Tee Eff.
<infinity> (I just did it a second time, argh)
<sarnold> who knew that ^C might be something that we're used to typing?
<infinity> I guess I need to reboot for this fix to apply?
<infinity> And also, if it's been broken this long, how did I only hit it today?  I haven't rebooted in weeks.
<infinity> Oh!
<sarnold> I -think- i depends upon what programs were run in the terminal
<mdeslaur> infinity: please refrain from using ctrl-c in Gnome, it's been deprecated. ;)
<infinity> It's cause I'm installing ubuntu-minimal in a *xenial* chroot, and then hitting Ctrl-C later.
<sarnold> and apt-get upgrade does it, once in a while
<infinity> How disgusting.
<infinity> sarnold: It's going to be reeeeeally hard to retrain my fingers to not use Ctrl-C as a shortcut for "abandon that really long thing I typed on the commandline, I don't love it anymore".
<infinity> Which is about 99% of my Ctrl-C usage.
<sarnold> infinity: why yes, I've got two valgrinds running now for .. 114 minutes. I suspect they aren't coming back. ^C was their planned future
<infinity> sarnold: Oh, no, I literally mean "long thing I typed", not "long-running process".  As in, I start typing out a long shell pipe, halfway through decide there's a better way, and Ctrl-C is a lot faster than leaning on Ctrl-W.
<sarnold> infinity: oh!
<chrisccoulson> shit
<sarnold> infinity: ^U and ^K
<infinity> That's how I just killed my session twice today.
<sarnold> infinity: sometimes ^G does the trick
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, sorry, I just hit the deactivate button :/
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, ok, fixed
<infinity> sarnold: Or!  I could ignore the problem by dpkg-diverting that udev rule pre-emptively in all my << artful chroots!
<infinity> I think I'll do that.
<Laney> It would be nice to backport the console-setup fpixes
 * Laney is on wet string so will go away now
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, thanks
<infinity> Laney: I've come to the conclusion that what it really needs is setupcon just refusing to run in chroots.
<infinity> Laney: For the new bug, that is.
<Laney> infinity: Fair enough - I'm not fully au fait with everything the script does but it does sound like it's probably not something that's good for a chroot, indeed.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-21
<edwinksl> so i just noticed the firefox nightly ppa at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ubuntu/ppa doesn't make builds for 17.04 anymore, although 17.04 hasn't gone EOL yet. who should i talk to convince that it is worth it to make builds for 17.04? :)
<jbicha> edwinksl: those ppa's are maintained by a volunteer and I have to assume he doesnt run 17.04 any more
<edwinksl> :(
<simonizor> Firefox has no required deps that aren't present on Ubuntu by default; you can just use the tar from their website without having to install anything if you like
<simonizor> it updates itself, so not like you *really need* your package manager to take care of it
<jbicha> you have to upgrade to 17.10 within 2 months anyway
<simonizor> That's why I just stick with LTS on my main PC and mess around with the other releases in VMs lol
<simonizor> Between the rolling kernel on 16.04 and PPAs for a couple of other things, I'm not missing much using Xubuntu on 16.04
<didrocks> good morning
<willcooke> morning all
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN, how goes?
<didrocks> welcome back willcooke! hey oSoMoN
<willcooke> hey didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke, didrocks
<oSoMoN> I'm good, thanks
<oSoMoN> willcooke, how are you yourself?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, pretty good.  Enjoyed a few days off, but now the inevitable email backlog
<oSoMoN> yeah, that's the price to pay :/
<oSoMoN> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.2-0ubuntu5/+build/13752520 looks like a deadlock to me, anyone seen that before?
<Laney> what up
<didrocks> morning Laney
<Laney> guten morgen didrocks
<Laney> wie gehts?
<didrocks> Laney: Gut, und bei euch?
<Laney> haha
 * Laney has never heard that before
<Laney> ich bin WUNDERBAR!
<Laney> mir ist?
<Laney> always get confused about that one
<didrocks> Apart the missing Ã¼mlaut on wÃ¼nderbar, that matches my few memory about German ;)
 * Laney doesn't think it has one of those
<ricotz> wÃ¼nderbar is not a word ;) so no umlaut here
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> fail thus ;)
<didrocks> I have never learnt that umlaut were only for words and not adjectives
<didrocks> was just learning by heart
<ricotz> of course you can play with those to make it sound funny while it will be still understandable ;P
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, jfyi, your "Author" line in debian/patches/skip-testLineBreaking-icu60.patch caused some anger
<seb128> hey willcooke oSoMoN Laney
<seb128> hey ricotz
<ricotz> seb128, hi
<seb128> ricotz, who got angry and why?
<ricotz> seb128, the debian maintainer which keeps an eye on ubuntu changes too
<ricotz> and the why seems obvious to me too
<seb128> well I don't know who is in there
<seb128> and who wrote the patch
<seb128> so no it's not obvious :p
<oSoMoN> ricotz, did it?
<ricotz> "dtardon and erAck wrote it"
<oSoMoN> yes, and I had to update the patch substantially for it to apply against 5.4.2
<ricotz> oSoMoN, I haven't looked at the details, I pasted the pings I got as pm to you
<seb128> the debian maintainer likes to complains about Ubuntu nothing new...
<oSoMoN> ricotz, thanks
<oSoMoN> I don't have an ego problem so IÂ can remove the Author line, no big deal
<oSoMoN> that will become an authorless patch
<ricotz> just wanted to keep you in the loop here
<oSoMoN> cheers
<ricotz> adding the original authors additionally would suffice imo
<oSoMoN> yes, I'll do that
<ricotz> seb128, yeah, he can be fun
<seb128> that's one way to say it :)
<oSoMoN> ricotz, https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=8eadd6f552cfdf1f4aa540bfe5b5ead5ff75c603
<oSoMoN> on to testing the 5.4.2 SRU for artful
<ricotz> oSoMoN, looks fine, if you didn't make any actual changes to it otherwise mentioning yourself would be fine
<ricotz> (dropping buildsys changes and external/* is no actual change imho)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, regarding firebird, since it is possible to build-dep on universe packages and splitting the resulting binary-packages in main and universe, it seems reasonable to enable it?
<oSoMoN> ricotz, the changes IÂ mentioned were to apply the patch cleanly on 5.4.2, they're not dropping buildsys and external/* changes, IÂ wouldn't consider that an actual change indeed
<ricotz> ok
<oSoMoN> ricotz, regarding firebird, I guess we can, but I'm not familiar with what that does, what's the reason for not enabling it now?
<ricotz> it is database backend which lives in a separate package
<oSoMoN> ricotz, and until now we're disabling firebird in the build, do you know why?
<ricotz> afaik only because of main/universe conflict (it was disable a long time ago)
<oSoMoN> ricotz, ok, so it sounds like it makes sense to try enabling it again
<ricotz> will be something for 6.0 then
<oSoMoN> yes
<oSoMoN> ricotz, if you have some time/motivation, can you do some smoke-testing of 1:5.4.2-0ubuntu0.17.10.1 that's in artful-proposed? Doing that myself now
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/346566031/buildlog_ubuntu_bionic_amd64_ubuntu_BUILDING.txt.gz
<Laney> + echo snap: found ohmygiraffe
<Laney> + ALL_SNAPS=ohmygiraffe
<Laney> ...
<Laney> Fetching snap "ohmygiraffe"
<Laney> #goodtimes #seededsnap
<seb128> woooooot
<Laney> better get some code reviews ;-)
<willcooke> nice one Laney
<Laney> should check what happens on (e.g.) armhf
<Laney> guessing ohmygiraffe snap isn't available there
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~laney/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/+build/115823
<willcooke> yeah, expect there will be a lot of those
<Laney> hoping for that to fail, for the record if you click on it later and if it has failed :P
<willcooke> will we need to specify a fall back to deb or something for that?
<Laney> you'll have to seed it with arch specifiers
<Laney> snap:ohmygiraffe [amd64]
<Laney> then either give a deb or nothing for the other arches
<Laney> ohmygiraffe [!amd64]
<Laney> snap: is the proposed syntax anyway, let's see what the review says
<willcooke> go it
<willcooke> got
<oSoMoN> cool
<Laney> got an exciting infinite loop in libinput just then
<Laney> seems fixed in 1.8.4, guess we should update
<Laney> also it looks like bugs.freedesktop.org got blacklisted by google
<seb128> right, #gnomefr people talked about that
<seb128> https://transparencyreport.google.com/safe-browsing/search?url=http:%2F%2Fbugs.freedesktop.org%2F
<Laney> did someone tell the fdo admins?
<Laney> helpful
<Laney> somebody probably spammed a bug
<seb128> I don't know if they reported it
<seb128> one of the guys on the channel work at google but said he didn't have time to look at it today/figure out what triggered the block exactly
<seb128> then the discussion shifted on "should move away from fdo"
<seb128> since the infra is poorly maintained etc
<Laney> seems known
<seb128> good
<Laney> what was I doing...
<Laney> ...yak shaving...
<oSoMoN> seb128, can you please retry the last autopkgtest failure there: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/lib/libreoffice/artful/s390x ?
<seb128> oSoMoN, done
<Laney> yes, file MPs and then look at the libinput update
<Laney> jbicha: hey, can you confirm/deny whether you looked at libinput 1.8.4 already?
<seb128> isn't tjaalton the one looking after libinput usually?
<Laney> could be
<Laney> guess we just pinged the most likely suspects
<Laney> I had just looked at the tracker and saw pochu on the few latest ones
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks
<seb128> np
<tjaalton> Laney: for bionic? there's 1.9.2 that could be merged
<Laney> tjaalton: nein, to SRU the point release
<Laney> bionic would need updating one way or the other tho
<tjaalton> ok
<tjaalton> what's the bug#=?
<tjaalton> -=
<Laney> I didn't report one on launchpad
<Laney> if you like fighting with safe browsing the one I hit is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103298
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 103298 in libinput "infinite loop when lid events are repeated - list item points to itself" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> â¥ ubot5 rides the wild west
<tjaalton> hah
<tjaalton> perhaps a generic bugfix-sru would do
<Laney> ya that's what we normally do with gnome updates
<Laney> there's an SRU exception for those but still I'd think this would be accepted
<tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1733573
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1733573 in libinput (Ubuntu Artful) "New bugfix release 1.8.4" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1724259
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1724259 in libinput (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell frozen and using 100% CPU after docking and display configuration change" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> that's the LP one for the bug I had
<tjaalton> ah
<tjaalton> ok
<Laney> so you can probably close that with the upload too
<Laney> thanks!
<tjaalton> yep
<tjaalton> wonder if the patches for ubuntu touch/phone could be dropped from bionic..
<seb128> yeah, no point to keep patches for touch
<tjaalton> right
<Laney> is that all the delta?
<tjaalton> yes, three patches
<Laney> cool
<Laney> sync it imho
<tjaalton> been maintaining those for two years now..
<tjaalton> so that they apply & build
<Laney> We've been dropping similar (in spirit) patches elsewhere
<tjaalton> synced, whee
<seb128> what were the change about? they were useful only in the touch context?
<tjaalton> libinput: add orientation and size of touch point and pressure to the API
<tjaalton> never accepted upstream
<tjaalton> that was the big one
<tjaalton> one was for mx4
<tjaalton> the third patch modified libinput.sym to mark the new api as added in 0.21.0
<willcooke> ding ding ding
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 21 14:30:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (hols), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN (out), seb128 (might be out), tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<jibel> hola o/
<jbicha> o/
<seb128> hey
 * oSoMoN says hi and goes afk for a PTA meeting, ttyl
<didrocks> hey hey
<willcooke> l8r oSoMoN
<Laney> sup
<heber> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<willcooke> Lots of people out today , so will be a quick one
<willcooke> Not sure if andyrock is ready or not, let's find out
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> Guess not
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> sadly, I have nothing desktop-related this week
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: didrocks
<seb128> willcooke, andyrock is off today I think
<willcooke> ah, thanks seb128
<didrocks> * Dash to Dock/Ubuntu Dock: Get dock transparency enhancement committed upstream (not yet in bionic, will get when DtD has more changes).
<didrocks> * Work on sound above 100%:
<didrocks>   - got new schema in gnome-desktop-schemas merged.
<didrocks>   - got part of the fix in gnome-settings-daemon OK COMMIT, after a lot of back and forth on implementation and API with the maintainer. The final patch (UI-triggering side) isn't merged though, pending input from GNOME designers.
<didrocks>   - rebased GNOME Shell API on this new contract with g-s-d ^ Pinged upstream for review multiple times, no movement so far.
<didrocks> * Try to get "safe mode extensions" GNOME Shell patch reviewed. Upstream devs waits on GNOME designers input. (pinged directly as well). No movement so far.
<didrocks> * Picked some people volunteering for working on new theming and design, get a new category created and organize it with topics, FAQ, and various sections: https://community.ubuntu.com/c/desktop/theme-refresh. Participate on other threads as well.
<didrocks> * Talk with dash to dock on compatibility issue.
<didrocks> * SRU appindicator and rebase for 18.04
<didrocks> * Some compatibility issues discussion with DtD upstream
<didrocks> * Help Alan on getting started on GG snap
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> thanks for helping on the GG snap
<didrocks> yw!
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Started SRUs for most of the important 3.26.2 updates except gdm3 and evolution stack. Thanks jibel for help verifying the SRUs.
<jbicha> â¢ Two big completed artful SRUs are LP: #1728421 and LP: #1730097
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728421 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "Update gtk+3.0 to 3.22.25" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728421
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730097 in mutter (Ubuntu Artful) "Update mutter to 3.26.2" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730097
<jbicha> â¢ Continuing discussion of headerbar patch removal proposal. Xubuntu switched to MATE apps.
<jbicha> Initially, it looked like Unity contributors mostly wanted to switch to MATE apps too, but there's some resistance now. See the Community discussions.
<jbicha> â¢ Proposed a Linux buildsystem for Emoji Two (adapted from Noto Emoji) https://github.com/EmojiTwo/emojitwo/pull/167
<jbicha> â¢ Firefox 58 Beta in the PPA now installs the Mozilla version of the EmojiOne font, thanks to ricotz. I believe Firefox doesn't use the same system as the new GNOME feature.
<jbicha> â¢ Working with the Debian Fonts team to package fontmake & all its dependencies to allow building several fonts from source https://bugs.debian.org/865283
<ubot5> Debian bug 865283 in wnpp "RFP: fontmake -- Compile fonts from sources (UFO, Glyphs) to binary (OpenType, TrueType)" [Wishlist,Open]
<jbicha> â¢ Merged gtk3 from Debian so it uses dh instead of cdbs now.
<jbicha> â¢ GNOME Tweaks 3.27.2 released with Global Dark Theme hack removed.
<jbicha> ð¦
<willcooke> excellent, thanks jbicha
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: jamesh
<willcooke> kenvandine, could you remind jamesh to do his update email when you next speak to him.  A calendar reminder would be a good idea :)
<seb128> still not?
<kenvandine> willcooke, will do
<willcooke> #topic jibel  / heber / QA
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: jibel  / heber / QA
<jibel> - SRU verification on artful of ubuntu-themes, gnome-software, gnome-shell-extension-appindicator, gnome-settings-daemon, gnome-control-center, gnome-shell
<jibel> - Proposed a fix for bug 1732185 and unblock the GUI upgrade to bionic.
<jibel> - Adding main_all test upgrade scenario (upgrade to bionic with the largest package set from the main pocket installed)
<jibel> - Make snaps under tests introspectable by autopilot
<ubot5> bug 1732185 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade crashed with SIGSEGV under wayland" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732185
<jibel> - Resolve proxy issue in jenkins for tests that find, download, install, etc snaps
<jibel> ..
<jibel> willcooke, ^ this needs escalation to foundations
<willcooke> jibel,  the update-manager one?
<jibel> yes
<willcooke> ack
<jibel> depending on whether they are fine with the workaround or prefer to make it wayland compatible
<willcooke> jibel, will follow up now
<willcooke> thanks
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Started working on a classic snap for gnome-builder, needs quite a few deps that aren't available for xenial
<kenvandine> * Merged all the distros patches for xchat-indicator upstream and rolled a new release including them, uploaded to bionic
<kenvandine> * Added the indicator plugin to the hexchat snap for libunity integration.  Loading the plugin causes hexchat to hang when confined, need to debug that.
<kenvandine> * Out the rest of the week
<kenvandine> eof
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> Happy Thanksgiving
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: Laney
<kenvandine> thx
<Laney> sup
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest:
<Laney> â we hit some critical sad point where too many workers spawning too many python3-nova processes were creating some kind of death spiral that was making tests take 10s of minutes to start and even getting some autopkgtest processes (actual test runs) OOM killed. To fix that I re-deployed the cloud worker onto a bigger machine. jujuuuuuuuuuuu
<Laney> â£ funny story - I initially didn't take the old worker down, just disabled it. This was so that other users could fetch stuff from it if they needed to. SOMEHOW in a mystery way though, the machine got re-enabled and started processing jobs, so both the new and the old worker were working on tests. Then a maintenance script which detects orphaned cloud instance kicked in on both boxes. They were fi
<Laney> ghting and killing each others' instances. ...
<Laney> ... MY TEST. NO. MY TEST. Result was almost no tests. :)
<Laney> â helped provide some info to IS about an openvswitch bug that's erroring some of our instances
<Laney> â discussed quotas with Steve and helped a bit with adjusting s390x onto a separate config within the same bos02 region as arm64 - they are actually separate compute pools so shouldn't share the same quota (implemented as 'virtual' quotas for now at least)
<Laney> â¢ helped a little bit more with the big migration of hell
<Laney> â¢ snap seeding: iterated a few times on livecd-rootfs & this morning got a build with a seeded snap in it. It's hard to turn this into an ISO though, so for now I just assume it works. Once it's all reviewed and modified until everyone's happy we can test in reality.
<Laney> â¢ going to be off on hols next week
<Laney> ð§
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<willcooke> â¢ chromium
<willcooke>   â investigated bug #1732482 and started forum thread
<willcooke> (https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/how-to-expose-desktop-files-created-by-snaps-to-the-de/2853)
<willcooke>   â updated chromium snap to not ship fonts any longer (snapd 2.29 is out)
<willcooke>   â updated chromium beta to 63.0.3239.52 and updated snap in beta channel
<willcooke>   â attended DMB meeting on Monday, my PPU application was approved ð
<ubot5> bug 1732482 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "[snap] doesn't properly save desktop files for "create shortcuts" action" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1732482
<willcooke>   â moved over my chromium PPAs to ~chromium-team
<willcooke>   â updated chromium stable to 62.0.3202.94, waiting on validation by
<willcooke> the security team
<willcooke> â¢ libreoffice
<willcooke>   â updated libreoffice snap to not ship fonts any longer (snapd 2.29 is out)
<willcooke>   â 1:5.4.2-0ubuntu4 uploaded to bionic with a patch that disables a
<willcooke> failing unit test (ICU 60) to unblock the ICU transition
<willcooke>   â then 1:5.4.2-0ubuntu5 uploaded with upstream fix for ICU 60
<willcooke> compatibility, currently building in bionic-proposed
<willcooke>   â 1:5.4.2-0ubuntu0.17.10.1 SRU ready in artful-proposed and tested
<willcooke> by myself, marked verification-done-artful
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> congrats oSoMoN!
<kenvandine> +1
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> â¢ one day off
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ still mostly spent the week in bugs triaging/debugging
<seb128> â¢ some SRU preparations
<seb128> â¢ reviews of plans for the cycle
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - cups/cups-filters snap: Continued working on the snap, applying strict confinement and making it work (with a lot of help from the snapcraft.io forum: jdstrand, ondra, ogra, ... Thanks to all of them!). The snap now works mostly on both Classic (Bionic) and Ubuntu Core. Printing with PPD and filters, lpstat, lpadmin, cupsctl, ..., printer sharing with Avahi and cups-browsed, only admin actions in the CUPS web interface do not
<willcooke> work, opened forum thread to treat this.
<willcooke> - See https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapping-cups-printing-stack-avahi-support-system-users-groups/1502
<willcooke> - Google Summer of Code 2018: There are already 50-60 student CVs!
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke> Â· Went through the backlog of various forum/ML/bugs
<willcooke> Â· Triaging of some bugs
<willcooke> Â· Some helping in fixing various extensions causing gs to crash
<willcooke> Â· Did ubuntu-themes landing and published SRU for artful
<willcooke> Â· Migrated to firefox 56 (love it!), and moved all my build
<willcooke>   tools, schroots and VMs to bionic.
<willcooke> Â· Got in touch with the unity7
<willcooke> Â· Compiz reviews
<willcooke> Â· Did a compiz and unity landing (wrote a new migration script for
<willcooke>   fixing lowgfx mode settings)
<willcooke> Â· Updated compiz/unity SRU packages with more fixes, and updated the
<Trevinho> (hi!)
<willcooke>   affected bugs to follow the template.
<willcooke>   Please someone publish this https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2841
<willcooke> Â· Gave a read to Didier's GS patches
<willcooke> Â· Updated patch for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788931
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788931 in general "Crashes when setting the label of invalid StLabel objects" [Critical,Reopened]
<willcooke> . https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland/GnomeShell/GnomeShell4
<willcooke> Â· Saludos desde PanamÃ¡ ðµð¦
<willcooke> :)
<Trevinho>  - /EOF
<willcooke> Trevinho, you want to add anything or all good?
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> that'll do
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<Trevinho> all good, I wanted to paste, but not to dubplicate, so...
<willcooke> - Working on snap channel selection in GNOME Software
<willcooke> - Patches to snapd to fix JSON output
<willcooke> - snapd-glib 1.27, 1.28, 1.29 releases.
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.25.0 release, migration to github completed.
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-21 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got anything to add?
<willcooke> Going in 10..
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 21 14:45:59 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-11-21-14.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> Thanks everyone
<willcooke> nice and quick
<willcooke> jibel, Have chased with Foundations will report back asap
<didrocks> thanks!
<jibel> thanks
<Trevinho> ... and good morning :)
<seb128> thx
<Trevinho> seb128: can you publish that silo?
<seb128> sure
<sabdfl> willcooke, could you look into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1727237 please?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1727237 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved is not finding a domain" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<sabdfl> this is captive portal bugginess that is hurtin 17.10 users
<sabdfl> maybe worth a backport SRU to 17.10 if we have resolved this on bionic
<sabdfl> i am on bionic but can't test as I don't have a captive portal handy
<willcooke> sabdfl, ack
<mdeslaur> I'm trying out artful, and I'm not seeing the dot next to the clock at the top when I have missed notifications...is that broken, or do I have to turn it on?
<didrocks> mdeslaur: the dot is on for everyone, you can't get it disabled. However, if you click on the clock or any notification, it will disappear
<mdeslaur> didrocks: I never get the dot
<mdeslaur> didrocks: any idea why%?
<didrocks> mdeslaur: hum, not really, you should have it for emails at least
<mdeslaur> I'm trying it with hexchat
<didrocks> (I'm unsure it's for all kinds of notifications though)
<mdeslaur> I see the notification popup, but when I disappears, I don't have a dot
<didrocks> yeah, I reproduce (I never relied on the dot TBH, I find it not noticeable)
<didrocks> I'll look at the algorithm, I'm unsure about what it's supposed to be exactly
<mdeslaur> didrocks: what are you relying on?
 * gQuigs is also delaying knowing about pings because of this (using pidgin)
<didrocks> mdeslaur: some notification stays until you move your mouse
<didrocks> so, I got used to notice them
<mgedmin> I have one unread notification right now and no dot next to the date
<didrocks> but I'm not fully satisfied either about this "no disturb" paradigm
<kenvandine> didrocks, i'm fairly dissatisfied with that myself
<kenvandine> thankfully we have the dock with emblems :)
<didrocks> yep!
 * didrocks goes a little bit earlier today, see you tomorrow guys!
<gQuigs> where does upstream for casper live?  I see https://launchpad.net/casper but trunk hasn't been updated in ages
<gQuigs> (assuming it's still really important and there isn't some alternative we plan to switch too)
<seb128> mdeslaur, I wonder if that has to do with the urgency parameter of the notifications
<seb128> or the type
<mdeslaur> hrm, maybe
<Laney> night!
<willcooke> night all
<kenvandine> EOW for me!
 * kenvandine waves
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-22
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, je me bats avec ma fille pour arriver Ã  lâheure Ã  lâÃ©cole, Ã  part Ã§a Ã§a va!
<oSoMoN> et toi?
<seb128> good morning desktopers, salut les frenchies
<jibel> oSoMoN, congrats for your new ubuntu dev status
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Martin est malade Ã  nouveau: fiÃ¨vre, rhume, etc. Bref, on prend l'habitude :)
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> good morning Laney
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<oSoMoN> merci jibel !
<oSoMoN> didrocks, courage!
<oSoMoN> et salut seb128 :)
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you today?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: 'ci ;)
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
<willcooke> seb128, more window replacement today, so lots of noise but fun to see progress
<Laney> hey didrocks oSoMoN seb128 willcooke
<willcooke> and hopefully no more condensation in the mornings
<willcooke> morning Laney
<seb128> willcooke, :)
<Laney> seb128: i'm allllllllllllllright
<Laney> pretty windy out there
<seb128> willcooke, so that systemd/resolved issue, do you want somebody to have a look or do we consider that x_nox&co are on it for now and just keep an eye to make sure it stays in active mode?
<Laney> you?
<seb128> windy here as well :-/
<willcooke> seb128, just going through my mail, did anyone from there respond yet?
<seb128> and the baby is still a bit sick, getting better though
<seb128> willcooke, there was activity on the bug
 * willcooke looks
<seb128> but nothing conclusion from what I see
<seb128> the dns server has some  issues nsure if that's enough to confuse the user stack
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<willcooke> morning oSoMoN, how was PTA?
<oSoMoN> twas good, we had a very interesting conversation with other parents about superheroes, princesses and how to not curb our children's imagination and creativity
<willcooke> excellent!
<willcooke> Case in point:  Take toy guns away from kids and they'll use literally anything as a toy gun.  It's a tough one for sure
<seb128> lol
<oSoMoN> yeah, but at least if they use a stick as a toy gun there's some imagination involved :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> seb128, doesnt look like anyone from Foundations has looked at that bug yet, so I think we see if x_nox_  or c_yphermox reply to the mail later on.  If not, then I think we need to escalate with them.  Seems like a systemd resolved issue to me.
<seb128> right
<clipcomp> https://youtu.be/qShbjKGb3j8 --------- Report on unboxed cam
<andyrock> oh I just realized that 5 years ago I joined Canonical
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> well kind of 6
<mdeslaur> andyrock: congrats! :)
<seb128> andyrock, congrats!
<seb128> andyrock, if it's 6 it means new laptop time :)
<andyrock> well for some reasons on the directory it says 5 years
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> in the mean time I was able to boot my xps
<seb128> did you change your contract type or something?
<seb128> ah, dell fixed it?
<andyrock> yep
<andyrock> I did
<willcooke> congrats andyrock
<seb128> nice
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> well done then :)
<andyrock> I had to disassemble it part by part
<seb128> what was the issue?
<andyrock> and replace the AC jack
<seb128> you have no dell waranty for it?
<andyrock> I don't have the on place assistance
<seb128> ah ok
<andyrock> and waiting 3 months was not an option
<andyrock> tomorrow I'll get the new battery and the new adapter
<seb128> I though they considered the xps as a business line
<andyrock> nope there is the new 5220
<seb128> at least with latitude line laptops they come
<andyrock> sorry 5520
<andyrock> it's basically an xps but precision
<andyrock> with pro support
<seb128> k
<seb128> nice
<andyrock> and it comes with ubuntu too
<andyrock> 5520
<andyrock> http://www.dell.com/it/aziende/p/precision-15-5520-laptop/pd
<andyrock> as an option at least
<seb128> right
<willcooke> night all
<sarnold> seb128: hey, am I doing something wrong? unity7 on xenial, ctrl + super + w (DONT DO THIS) is supposed to show all the windows of the active application type, but immediately closes them when I hit it.. three times in the last three days I've accidently done this and killed my terminal with irc in it, and when trying to figure out what I kept doing, I managed to kill all three terminals and then the firefox open on that desktop
<seb128> sarnold, urg, not known by me, maybe Trevinho has an idea what's going on
<seb128> wfm (just tried with gedit)
<sarnold> seb128: hrm, in my case it was three urxvt windows and one firefox window
<seb128> no issue with firefox either
<seb128> does it do it in a guest session?
<sarnold> seb128: mdeslaur mentioned he could reproduce it ..
<sarnold> will that log out my existing state?
<seb128> shouldn't, unless you hit a kernel/video driver bug which is not impossible
<sarnold> okay, that's fair odds :)
<sarnold> seb128: perfect suggestion, I figured it out; _tapping_ ctrl + super + w brings up the windows fine, but if you hold down the key combo for a bit too long, the windows start to close
<seb128> sarnold, k, that I can confirm :p
<seb128> it switched to the next apps/group as well once it started
<seb128> quite dangerous
<sarnold> seb128: heh, is that whjat happened to your ex-chat instance? :)
<sarnold> (sorry, was on the phone)
<seb128> yes!
<seb128> can you open a bug? I'm going to ask Trevinho or andyrock to have a look
<sarnold> seb128: woot, thanks
<seb128> thank you for raising up the issue and finding an easy way to trigger it
<sarnold> hah. the apport window paints only C and i glyphs
<sarnold> do I want to click 'no' button or 'yes' button? :) this is hilarious..
<sarnold> perhaps one for afterlunch
<sarnold> seb128: thanks for your help
<seb128> np
<seb128> on that note I call it a day
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-23
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks! Martin va mieux?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: bof, 39.8Â°C cette nuit, mais au moins, Ã§a descend avec le doliprane. 38.4 ce matin
<didrocks> et rÃ©veillÃ© trÃ¨s tÃ´t
<pitti> didrocks: bonojour ! uh, bon rÃ©tablissement pour le petit Martin !
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, merci ! :)
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<Laney> ello
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey willcooke oSoMoN Laney
<seb128> re didrocks
<willcooke> o/
<seb128> how is everyone today?
<willcooke> giving thanks
 * Laney waits for the thanks
<seb128> oh, right, that day
<Laney> hey seb128!!!
<willcooke> "The day before black Friday Day"
<seb128> don't expect the frenchs to buy into english-speaking-people traditions :p
<willcooke> :))
 * Laney has been to the physio this morning
<Laney> LAME
<seb128> your shoulder still?
<Laney> problems reoccured
<didrocks> :/
<Laney> getting a surgical opinion!
<Laney> https://giphy.com/gifs/turk-t5WU6eFWmwwla
<willcooke> good luck Laney
<Laney> thx
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<Laney> they might not be able to offer anything, but worth seeing I guess
<Laney> :'( hope I can still climb :'(
<Laney> anyway
<Laney> how's it going for everybody else?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 et Laney !
<pitti> between broken RHEL infra and sucking Chrome debug protocol, pretty well actually :) basketball was fun last night, the good kind of sore muscles today :)
<seb128> salut pitti, comment Ã§a va ?
<pitti> Laney: ouch, shoulder sounds awful; sports? or the lack thereof?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci ! et toi ?
<oSoMoN> not too bad here. The black Friday thing is getting big around here too, collective consumer crazinessâ¦
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> still doing chrome stuff?
<Laney> pitti: yeah I dislocated it a couple of times while climbing :(
<pitti> Laney: yeah, still trying to ditch PhantomJS
<pitti> https://fedorapeople.org/groups/cockpit/logs/pull-8069-20171122-232121-f56c5a77-verify-fedora-27/backup.U76MqO/log.html#152
<seb128> pitti, I think I'm starting to get the babyflu but good otherwise!
<pitti> 153 down, 12 to go!
<seb128> I don't get that black friday thing
<seb128> are the special offers on that day so much better than regular discounts and such you can find during the year?
<Laney> was hearing on the radio that they're often fake discounts
<Laney> like raise the price earlier in November compared to before
<Laney> then you can claim a bigger % discount
<Laney> the guy's advice was to wait until late in December to buy stuff
<willcooke> uk.camelcamelcamel.com is your friend (for Amazon stuff anyway)
<willcooke> But yeah, the "special" prices are very ordinary when you look at the history over the year
<Laney> ya that's a good one
 * didrocks might buy a ps4
 * willcooke too
<willcooke> I want the VR headset
<willcooke> but $$$$$$
<seb128> didrocks, one for 30â¬? ;)
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, I wish I was quick enough, and I wish they would honored the command despite their mistake :p
<seb128> :p
<didrocks> which it seems they won't :p
<didrocks> scandalous!
<seb128> right
<seb128> they said they would give a 10â¬ voucher
<seb128> lame!
<didrocks> after raising the PS4 pro price by 10â¬ ;)
<jamesh> willcooke: there's a new version of the PSVR coming out shortly, which is why there's lots of deals for the current version
<didrocks> willcooke: still waiting for a killer VR game, not convinced yet
<didrocks> but I have the whole PS4 game catalog backlog to play first ;)
<willcooke> jamesh, oooooh!!! Nice tip, thanks
<seb128> pitti, since you are around I'm going to try my chance and ask if you know about systemd-resolved issues under captive portal (bug #1727237), one of the comment state that the captive portal dns doesn't get added, unsure if that's true/the issue/is a n-m pb... just asking in case you have an idea of know if it's a known issue
<ubot5> bug 1727237 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved is not finding a domain" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1727237
<willcooke> Could it be related to:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1624320 as well?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1624320 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved appends 127.0.0.53 to resolv.conf alongside existing entries" [Low,Confirmed]
<tjaalton> i have a similar bug on xenial.. wife can't connect to her outlook account because of dns issues
<seb128> xenial doesn't use systemd-resolved though
<tjaalton> ok, something fishy still
<seb128> yeah, I guess it needs debugging, difficult to say like that
<oSoMoN> seb128, I've prepared a new libreoffice upload, need your sponsoring: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.3/
<seb128> oSoMoN, how is that ppu application going? :p
<seb128> just kidding, let me have a look and do it now so I don't get busy on other things and delay as I did a couple of times
<seb128> nice to see that the previous one migrated, it means they sort out some of the transitions!
<Laney> yeah the migration of hell went in
<seb128> well done to those involved!
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks! let me get a few more sponsored uploads under my belt before I start thinking of PPU ;)
<oSoMoN> jamesh, would you mind commenting on https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/call-for-testing-libreoffice-5-4-3/2935/2 ? should snaps see fonts in ~/.fonts ?
<seb128> oSoMoN, uploads done :)
<jamesh> oSoMoN: sure.
<seb128> hey jamesh! how are you?
<oSoMoN> seb128, jamesh:Â thanks!
<seb128> oSoMoN, np
<jamesh> oSoMoN: as an initial guess, the sandbox can probably read the fonts but doesn't see them due to $HOME being changed
<jamesh> seb128: good.  Learning how to put together some spread tests for some of the snapd PRs I've been working on
<jamesh> seb128: and looking forward to the charity bike ride on Sunday
<seb128> jamesh, what are the snaps/desktop improvement coming? I liked to read about this in your summary in the meeting but you missed a few ones recently I think
<seb128> I saw you updated the user mounts one, is that the main thing atm?
<jamesh> seb128: yeah.  The user-mounts one is infrastructure to support xdg-document-portal
<jamesh> seb128: once I've got that sorted, I plan to add portal access to the desktop interface.  Combined with a patched xdg-desktop-portal, we should be able to support functional desktop apps without access to the user's full home dir
<seb128> nice
<jamesh> oSoMoN: I think the fonts thing can be fixed in the snapcraft-desktop-helpers part
<alexarnaud> Hello all :) !
<alexarnaud> Trevinho: I'm in the process to translate Compiz a11y modules into French. How can I give new the updated translation ?
<alexarnaud> There is this bug about translation : https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bug/1722732
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1722732 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Modules not translatable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alexarnaud> Do you want a code merge request until the Lauchpad translation module works ?
<Saviq> hey all, any idea why I wouldn't be able to switch to vt3..vt9? vt1 is gdm, vt2 is my session, and trying to switch to any other with Ctrl+Alt+F3..F9 just results in input being gone, but I can still see my vt2 session...
<willcooke> Saviq, humm, I think we saw that somewhere else...
<willcooke> didrocks, do you remember hearing about that one? ^ (vts not switching properly)
<didrocks> didn't hear about that one, normally systemd is spawing them on demand
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<seb128> cyphermox, is there a chance you could have a look to
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1727237 .
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1727237 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd-resolved is not finding a domain" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> ?
<cyphermox> sure, I'll have a look
<Saviq> didrocks: doesn't seem like that's the problem http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029015/
<Saviq> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029017/
<didrocks> waow, interestingâ¦ that the services are spawnâ¦
<Saviq> didrocks: maybe I was going through Ctrl+Alt+F* and that triggered them?
 * Saviq reboots
<didrocks> Saviq: yes, that triggers them AFAIK, but it should as well create the logind session
<Saviq> didrocks: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029054/
<didrocks> are you kidding?
<didrocks> you edited it
<didrocks> no? ;)
 * didrocks is puzzled
<didrocks> I don't know enough of gdm, I think robert_ancell looked more into it
<Saviq> didrocks: nopes
<didrocks> but it's weird that your previous login didn't get that
<didrocks> you really expect gdm to spawn the first session on tty2
<didrocks> then tty3, and so onâ¦
<didrocks> do you have anything lightdm related still installed on your system?
<didrocks> I wonder if there a service listening to account-manager events and stepping up
<Saviq> didrocks: this is from fresh boot http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029101/
<Saviq> I do have lightdm installed still
<Saviq> but it's not running
<didrocks> ok, you have agetty running, this is all fine on my side but I didn't touch this systemd part for 3 years at least, I think this is something that xnox_ would follow more than I do as he's touching systemd quite a lot
<Saviq> sure, you're the victim is all since you replied ;)
<Saviq> I'll wait for some others you pung to weigh in a bit
<didrocks> why did I do that while I'm having in-depth conversation on #gnome-design? ;)
<didrocks> good luck!
<xnox> didrocks, i was not in the channel in my irc client, but i got a push notification.
<xnox> didrocks, somehow.
<xnox> didrocks, i have no idea what the context is, something something systemd something something?
<didrocks> why have you enabled such things? :)
<didrocks> Saviq: ^
<xnox> didrocks, to stalk people.
<didrocks> xnox: context is: //pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029101/
<didrocks> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26029101/
<xnox> didrocks, znc-push plugin in the znc bouncer
<didrocks> crazy ;)
<xnox> Saviq, ok, what is your emergency?
<xnox> Saviq, the pastebin looks fine; gdm on tty1, logged in user on tty2, first regular getty console available is tty3. Welcome to the new world order, where login manager is not on tty7
<xnox> Saviq, thus you need ctrl-alt-f3 to get a getty terminal....
<didrocks> xnox: you missed the "====== Ctrl+Alt+F3, input lost, then Ctrl+Alt+F2, back to the session ======
<xnox> instead of like ctrl-alt-f1
<didrocks> "
<didrocks> no input
<Saviq> xnox: yeah, ctrl+alt+f1 just moves input to vt3
<didrocks> or logging prompt
<xnox> ah
<Saviq> but not graphics
<xnox> halarious
<Saviq> I still see my vt2 session
<xnox> that would be session management bullshit
<xnox> i hate that my hangouts audio is killed when moving to like tty3 and back.
<xnox> Saviq, can you do $ ubuntu-bug systemd -> and go from there?
<Saviq> sure
<xnox> Saviq, i'm not sure how session stuff works, but it does smell broken.
<xnox> Saviq, also comment things like if you are using wayland or x in session; in gdm; if you have rebooted since upgrading your system; etc.
<xnox> Saviq, if there is something funky about the laptop....
<xnox> possibly need a dump from loginctl / udevadm to see if the devices are tagged with the right active seat and "move" appropriately with ctl-alt-f toggles....
<Saviq> xnox: bug #1734160
<ubot5> bug 1734160 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Ctrl+Alt+F* not switching to a text prompt, only between graphical sessions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734160
<Saviq> I could run `apport-collect` over ssh after Ctrl+Alt+F3 if that may shed a light
<cyphermox> seb128: so, nothing jumps out in the DNS bug; and I'm not anywhere close to a captive portal to do some more digging (which is what I think will be the only way to figure it out); it will have to wait until tomorrow or next week
<Laney> got to dash for a gig
<Laney> laters!
<yetoo> Does Ubuntu 18.04 Bionic currently use the new gnome layout or is it regular?
<yetoo> Because I'm finding that I'm still seeing regular gnome even though my gnome-session package is gone.
<seb128> cyphermox, k, well you took the time to have a look so thanks for that!
<seb128> yetoo, hey, what do you call "new gnome layout"?
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hi, snapd-glib is now in Debian and synced to Ubuntu. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/snapd-glib
<jbicha> are you interested in becoming a Debian Maintainer?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-24
<robert_ancell> jbicha: not interested in being a DM :)
<yetoo> With the new Ubuntu dock extension, is the "Show Applications" button location going to be configurable so that it can be at another location in the dock?
<jamesh> yetoo: I don't know of any immediate plans to do that.  The current layout is a compromise between vanilla GNOME and Unity 7
<yetoo> What's stopping the activities button being removed and the Show Applications butto nbeing placed at the top?
<yetoo> and the show applications doing the same thing that gnome does but searches applications
<yetoo> when the suer wants
<yetoo> *user
<yetoo> If there is a compromise it would be cool to have settings to work around it as there is a 50/50 way a user is going to go about using the setting and order
<jamesh> yetoo: there is an extensions system for gnome-shell here: https://extensions.gnome.org/ -- it might have something that does what you want
<jamesh> yetoo: didrocks wrote a series of articles about how we arrived at the current design on his blog here: https://didrocks.fr/
<jamesh> that might answer some of your questions
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<jamesh> hi didrocks
<jamesh> didrocks: I put together a PR to speed up desktop-launch a bit: https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/86
<jamesh> still need to think a bit more about how to untangle the user fonts issue oSoMoN mentioned yesterday
<seb128> hey didrocks oSoMoN jamesh
<seb128> jamesh, just curious did you do some measurement of before/after for those launcher improvements?
<didrocks> jamesh: hey! the changes look mostly good for me and nice that you refactor this a little bit, I would put those in a common/ utility files rather than desktop-exports, personnaly, but as Ken is now way more active on this project than I am, I prefer to defer to it
<didrocks> however, I doubt I can spot where the speedup is, rather cleaning, refactoringâ¦
<didrocks> (also, you might want to run update-mime-database even if the runtime doesn't ship (it shouldn't) ship it anymore
<didrocks> and some snaps won't ship a mime cache
<jamesh> seb128: no hard numbers, but I can hear my hard drive chugging away when it runs update-mime-database
<didrocks> (remember, it's not only for snaps + runtime)
<didrocks> yeah, so the speed up for you is to not run update-mime-database I think
<jamesh> didrocks: I didn't remove the code that generates these caches: just made it conditional on the caches not existing in the read only snap data
<jamesh> didrocks: for gsettings schemas, I checked that it still compiles the app's own schemas
<didrocks> (I would separate that in multiple commits, but again, deferring to Ken)
<jamesh> (assuming the app hasn't bothered compiling its schemas at package build time)
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, that one is great, even if I guess we can still do more with multiple layers, runtime schemas, precompiled, and app's one
<seb128> jamesh, right, I'm sure it has a real impact, would be nice to have some numbers though for pr purpose (if the numbers are good), like weekly newsletter
<jamesh> seb128: I'll see what I can do
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> I would say, just time the first run manually on 2-3 apps (snap only, snap + runtimeâ¦)
<seb128> right, should be easy
<didrocks> no need to go fancy on automating :)
<seb128> "time desktop-snap-bin" before/after on newly installed snaps
<seb128> or remove the datadir in between
<jamesh> well, I can pretty easily time how long it takes to generate the mime database
<jamesh> that's time that simply goes away with this change
<seb128> well it's easy do a "time bin" test before/after
<seb128> I might have a look if you don't do that
<didrocks> we can add time instructions and conditionnally enable it in the script as well
<didrocks> like at first instruction and last instructions, make the diff, done
<didrocks> (so that you don't have to do it manually)
<seb128> I wouldn't add complexity for that I think
<jamesh> didrocks: I had been wondering about how to get app authors to generate some of these caches as part of their package builds
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, would be great to get that in the snapcraft helper
<didrocks> (the part)
<jamesh> didrocks: the problem is that we probably want to run things after the the user's other parts have staged their files
<jamesh> i.e. it isn't particularly useful having the desktop-gtk3 part compile schemas only for the application to dump another schema in the same directory afterwards
<didrocks> jamesh: it's been a long time and I don't remember, aren't there hooks between staging and priming?
<jamesh> perhaps
<didrocks> or can a part do something for priming?
<didrocks> man, it's like it's been years, I don't remember :)
<jamesh> seb128: so, the approximate speed up for new to old desktop launch is going from around 16 seconds to less than a second
<jamesh> that's on my somewhat old desktop with a traditional hard drive
<didrocks> yeah, update-mime-database was the longest thing running, then, it's gsettings compile schemas IIRC
<seb128> jamesh, that's great news!
<seb128> jamesh, I think there was a forum post about the desktop launcher being slow, we should comment there with a status update once the changes are merged
<willcooke> Happy Black Friday consumers
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> found any good ps4 deals didrocks? ;)
<didrocks> willcooke: found one in switzerland last Monday, didn't get a better one, but PS4 pro for (with optimizing coupon code) 240â¬
<willcooke> nice
<didrocks> willcooke: need to send my brother at the border to get it though
<didrocks> he is living 15 kms away, should be doable :p
<willcooke> You think the Pro is the one to go for?  I figured it was, but then I read some stuff that said nothing really takes advantage of it (which makes sense, you're not going to make a game which only runs on some PS4s)
 * Laney upwards nods to the channel
<didrocks> willcooke: if the price difference was > 100â¬, I wouldn't go for the Pro, here, it's only 40â¬ more approx. In your case, it seems that VR headset is working better with it
<didrocks> but yeah, I don't have a 4K tv
<willcooke> hey Laney
<didrocks> so, if I find a very good PS4 slim deal, why notâ¦
<willcooke> didrocks, I've been looking for a 4k TV for the last week.  Waited for today to pull the trigger.  Aaaaannnddddd... no difference in price for any of the models I was thinking about
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, we are not in the US :p
<willcooke> so now I dont feel rushed
<willcooke> jamesh, seb128 - shall we do the desktop snappy sync today>
<jamesh> willcooke: sure
<jamesh> willcooke: I'm just writing up a forum post about some startup performance improvements I've been looking at for desktop snap apps
<willcooke> woot!
<jamesh> this is to improve the first-run startup time for apps using the desktop-launch script
<willcooke> nice
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, I'm going to try to but still having a baby to handle today so hangout might be a bit difficult if he's not napping yet
<seb128> (sorry about that)
<seb128> willcooke, the change from James cut off most of the start delay it looks like, that's nice, he said earlier that it cut like 15 seconds off for him
<willcooke> seb128, no worries, I knew you'd likely be out, dont worry
<willcooke> Thought I'd ask anyway in case you were around
<seb128> technically I've a vac day today :p
<seb128> right
<seb128> I might join if it works out
<seb128> otherwise I think I've an idea what jamesh is working on anyway, we chatted a bit on the channel yesterday and today
<seb128> Laney is talking on other channels but didn't even say hi to his fellow desktopers, how rude!
<willcooke> seb128, he totally did
<willcooke> ;P
<seb128> doh
<seb128> it was a /me
<willcooke> no no
<seb128> stupid IRC client :p
<willcooke> I was wrong
<willcooke> wait
<Laney> I didn't technically say "hi"
<Laney> :-)
<seb128> hey Laney :)
<seb128> sorry xchat-gnome doesn't put the name on the left column for /me lines and I somehow didn't see it
 * Laney learns how to hack seb128's client
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> you know how to secretely talk without me noticing what you say know
<seb128> damnit!
<Laney> :D
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> I deserved that
<jamesh> seb128, willcooke: here's the post complete with some numbers: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/improving-first-run-of-desktop-app-snaps/2944
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, doing ok, it's good that it's friday, baby was sick this week, I had to look after him on the side a few days, didn't get enough sleep and managed to get his cold for the w.e I think ... oh and it's raining. But otherwise good :)
<seb128> jamesh, willcooke, great numbers, should resolve one of the top complains with desktop snaps!
<willcooke> jamesh, are your computer names based on Futurama characters as well?! :)
<jamesh> willcooke: yes
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> will@farnsworth:~$
<seb128> chrisccoulson might be one of yours as well :p
<willcooke> jamesh, c_hrisccoulson uses the same convention
<jamesh> my new laptop is lrrr
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> you guys :)
<willcooke> My MythTV backend is hypnotoad
<chrisccoulson> yeah, my laptop is called futurama
<chrisccoulson> I think Jo's is zoidberg
<chrisccoulson> and there's a calculon somewhere too
<jamesh> old laptop is morbo
<chrisccoulson> errr
<chrisccoulson> farnsworth, even
<chrisccoulson> yes, my laptop is called farnsworth, not futurama. That would be silly
<chrisccoulson> need more coffee
<willcooke> I had a two node cluster for a while called hubert and cubert
<chrisccoulson> lol
<jamesh> I used to have two almost identical systems called bender and flexo
<willcooke> awesome
<chrisccoulson> heh
<Laney> seb128: bad bad bad bad but still OK!
<Laney> good positivity
<chrisccoulson> I've just brought in my old desktop from the garage that hasn't been powered up for a while. I'm sure that's conrad
<chrisccoulson> I should power it up and find out :)
<willcooke> malfunctioning-eddie, my old x220, is now retired
<willcooke> and my main server is calculon
<willcooke> THIS is how you do Fridays ^ ;)
<chrisccoulson> fridays are the day for discussing futurama themed hostnames and eating bacon and hash browns
<willcooke> I concur
<willcooke> jamesh, since it's just me and you today, let's use the 1:1 hangout
<chrisccoulson> oh, my wifi ssid is "Decapod 10"
<jamesh> okay
<chrisccoulson> I wonder how many of my neighbours will get that
<willcooke> Mine is planet_express ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<willcooke> I think we win the nerd competition today
<jamesh> I think they're the same hangout URL anyway
<willcooke> night all, have a good weekend
<Laney> me too
<Laney> quiet times on #ubuntu-desktop :'(
<ochosi> awayney: hey there! going to fosdem again next year? if so, let me know. this time we will plan our meet-and-greet meticulously so we finally succeed ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-25
<ochosi> awayney: also, who is in charge of libreoffice packaging these days, now that Sweetshark is gone?
<jbicha> ochosi: osomon handles LibreOffice (and Chromium)
<ochosi> cause i have the odd feeling that e.g. the elementary icon theme for libreoffice (which is now maintained upstream along with libreoffice) is not up to date
<ochosi> i guess i'll investigate a little more and then get in touch with osomon (wherever he may be :))
<ochosi> but thanks jbicha!
<jbicha> he'll probably be around next week, https://launchpad.net/~osomon
<ochosi> mkay, sounds good
<ochosi> just wanna make sure we have a (fairly) complete theme for the next LTS
<ricotz> ochosi, you should talk to upstream to get it into shape for 6.0
<ricotz> I think I saw some elementary related updates lately in git master
<ochosi> ricotz: yes, i pushed an icon i felt was missing in ubuntu, then i unpacked the zip that is in ubuntu and noticed that more stuff was missing
<ochosi> but i'll verify that again before i drive ppl crazy :)
<ricotz> ochosi, e.g. https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=37603b90be911edda5fc1c80bf194b67cf3b89e6
<ricotz> so a bunch of update there were ;) https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/icon-themes/elementary
<ochosi> ricotz: well that last one was mine, but indeed, there are lots of commits that are not from me (i originally created the theme). wondering why those never made it downstream though
<ricotz> ochosi, git master = upcoming 6.0
<ricotz> which got already branched, so commits to master will need to request an uplift now
<ricotz> like your last commit then
<ochosi> ricotz: ah ok, good to know then
<ochosi> ricotz: any plans for a libreoffice 6beta PPA?
<ricotz> ochosi, yes
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-19
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning
<Laney> :-o!!!
<willcooke> morning Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hey willcooke, what's up? good holiday?
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> hey willcooke, Laney, how is the u.k?
<Laney> still here, no tanks on the streets just yet
<Laney> how are you? good weekend?
<seb128> yeah, a bit busy prospecting for buying some furnitures but also relaxing, it also feels like winter now, brrrrr
<duflu> Morning willcooke, Laney, seb128
<duflu> seb128, if there's a deb in disco that works perfectly as an SRU for cosmic, how would you propose that?
<seb128> duflu, you need a bug with the SRU info (impact/test case/regression potential) and point to the disco version/the launchpad debdiff
<seb128> if the diff has no "side changes" just reuploading with a ~18.10 version or such should be enough
<duflu> seb128, well, there are other bugfix changes. It's a bugfix only release. Does that matter?
<duflu> (gjs 1.54.2)
<seb128> if it's a GNOME point update it's fine, those have special rules that it's ok to do the version update
<seb128> still need a SRU like bug
<duflu> seb128, so the only requirement is that the version string is unique to cosmic?
<duflu> different to disco
<seb128> right, lower to disco, also that it has a SRU bug number reference in its changelog
<duflu> OK. I'm guessing lower means 1.54.2-0...
<seb128> duflu, versioning recommendations are documented on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging
<seb128> so yeah that would be a -0ubuntu0.18.10.1 version
<Laney> there's a gjs 1.54.3 by the way
<Laney> I was just building that
<duflu> Laney, I know but pushing cosmic ahead of disco isn't allowed, or useful in this case
<Laney> it won't be ahead in a few minutes :-)
<duflu> Oh
<duflu> Hmm
<Laney> really annoying
<Laney> I've got empty window 19 and window 45
<Laney> apparently forgot to save whatever channel I used to have in there
<Laney> long uptime problems
<andyrock> Laney: do I need an SRU to backport this to cosmic? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozjs60/+bug/1796238
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796238 in gjs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[regression] mozjs60 crashes with SIGSEGV on gnome-shell exit, in GetPropertyOperation() from Interpret() from js::RunScript()" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> andyrock: if it's in the upstream release, not explicitly
<andyrock> Laney: yeah it's the upstream release
<andyrock> who should I ask to sync it?
<Laney> it should be converted to an SRU bug yes, but the test case can just say it's covered by https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/GNOME and doesn't need to be tested specifically
<Laney> it is synced to disco, still needs uploading to cosmic though
<Laney> duflu mentioned that earlier so I would check with him that he didn't start working on that
<andyrock> well I just need to convert the bug, so no big deal
<Laney> yeh, someone does need to prepare & upload though
 * Laney fixes things to build with --std=c11, thanks nautilus
<andyrock> seb128: what's the correct link here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+bug/1789925
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1789925 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu Bionic) "Link to Ubuntu Report legal notice points at the wrong page" [High,Fix committed]
<andyrock> seb128: the test case says "https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/systems-information-notice" but I'm getting https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy
<Laney> the one in the test case is right
<andyrock> so the package is broken
<Laney> that would be surprising looking at the diff
<andyrock> I'm checking bionic
<Laney> double checked the version?
<andyrock> disco and cosmic are not relevant considering that livepatch is not supported
<andyrock> I did apt source ...
<andyrock> and in the changelog it says: gnome-initial-setup (3.28.0-2ubuntu6.16.04.4) bionic; urgency=medium
<Laney> I'd use apt policy to see which version is installed
<Laney> but I only looked at cosmic indeed
<andyrock> here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/396483675/gnome-initial-setup_3.28.0-2ubuntu6.16.04.3_3.28.0-2ubuntu6.16.04.4.diff.gz
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Cxp0lC3c/
<Laney>                                "https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/dataprivacy",
<Laney> looks buggy
<andyrock> I'm checking here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+git/gnome-initial-setup/+ref/ubuntu/bionic
<andyrock> I'm a little bit confused
<Laney> me too
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jTFGs5CNt2/
<Laney> isn't that right?
<willcooke> Livepatch page should point to: https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/dataprivacy
<willcooke> Ubuntu Report should point to: https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/systems-information-notice
<willcooke> via: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+bug/1789925/comments/5
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1789925 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu Bionic) "Link to Ubuntu Report legal notice points at the wrong page" [High,Fix committed]
<Laney> that's what that pastebin shows no?
<willcooke> so testcase is wrong
<willcooke> I will fix the test case, one sec
<Laney> oh ok it should say ubuntu report page
<willcooke> test case fixed
<willcooke> sorry for the confusion, seb and I tripped over that one
<willcooke> I've updated my bionic proposed machine today, so I will do a round of verification tomorrow
<Laney> disco looks bad though
<Laney> thought we had code to get that from /etc/os-release :(
<jbicha> seb128: could you look into subscribing the bugs team to libcue & libsf ? LP: #1770871, LP: #1770874
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770871 in libcue (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libcue" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770871
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770874 in libgsf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libgsf" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770874
<jbicha> Laney: os-release ultimately points to https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy It looks like neither of those privacy policies link to the other
<Laney> ok, not sure what you're getting at
<Laney> we used to read os-release and now it hardcodes the url that's in there
<jbicha> I don't know what I'm getting at either
<andyrock> so that patch removed the code to read from /etc/os-release to read from an hard-coded link
<andyrock> I'm still confused
<Laney> I think it should be hardcoded in the ubuntu-report page and use os-release in livepatch
<Laney> it looks to me like the livepatch page has bionic hardcoded right and cosmic/disco hardcoded wrong
<Laney> I would fix it in disco, not like it matters for cosmic since you don't get the page there anyway
<Laney> imho anyway
<andyrock> k makes sense now
<Laney> where "fix" means "go back to using os-release" (again imho)
<Laney> (but I'm not sure why it was deleted, maybe an accident?)
<andyrock> mmm it looks like it never read from /etc/os-release
<andyrock> it was always hardcoded in livepatch page
<Laney> ah
<andyrock> I can prepare a patch
<Laney> that was only in the report page?
<andyrock> yeah report page was reading from /etc/os-release
<andyrock> I can prepare a patch to read it from /etc/os-release in disco
<Laney> cool
<andyrock> and later we can SRU it
<Laney> it looks like it has the functions to do that already
<Laney> get_item()
<Laney> so patch should be quite easy
<andyrock> in a different page
<andyrock> maybe we can move the all code in a shared file too
<andyrock> but we should not block the current deb in bionic-proposed as it is "correct"
<Laney> its there
<Laney> you already use os-release for the is_lts() thing
<andyrock> mmm where?
<andyrock> ah right
<andyrock> kk nice
<andyrock> I'll mark it as verification-done and prepare the upload to disco
<Laney> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/tree/debian/patches/0001-Add-Ubuntu-mode-with-special-pages.patch#n2135
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MJnFyGjcvz/
 * Laney has been failing a lot today
<Laney> it's fun, you can replay those backwards and it's like an epic journey of failure
<andyrock> k so the bug is confusing because it says in the title "Ubuntu Report" but in the test case it says "livepatch"
<andyrock> I'll make it less ambigous
<Laney> yeah typo/thinko I think
<Laney> willcooke just said he fixed it
<Laney> doesn't seem to be though ;-)
<andyrock> I'm chaning it
<andyrock> *changing
<willcooke> sorry was eating, back now
<willcooke> are we all sorted?
<andyrock> yep
<willcooke> thank you!
<andyrock> and verified that it works
<andyrock> Laney: can you create an ubuntu/cosmic branch in gnome-control-center ?
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> andyrock, Laney, was the SRU good or buggy at the end?
<andyrock> seb128: the SRU was good
<andyrock> I marked it as verified
<andyrock> but it still makes sense to read it from /etc/os-release (in livepatch not in ubuntu report)
<andyrock> it's low priority considering that disco will not have livepatch support
<andyrock> but it's better to merge it otherwise we'll forgot :)
<andyrock> said that it's EOD for me :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-20
<duflu> RAOF: Another report of colour profiles being applied as too green has come in. Seems to be an issue consistently visible with whites appearing as lime green (bug 1803840)
<ubot5> bug 1803840 in colord (Ubuntu) "color calibration with huey pro greenish" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803840
<duflu> It was previously reported by mpt and robert_ancell
<duflu> Annoyingly, with all the hardware I own, I've never seen that bug myself
<robert_ancell> weird
<RAOF> Hm.
<RAOF> I don't think night mode *is* a colour profile, though?
<RAOF> Pretty sure that's just changing the gamma LUT.
<RAOF> Which won't appear as a colour profile to applications.
<duflu> RAOF: It's not about night mode...(?)
<RAOF> The linked bug (that robert_ancell and mpt were on) talked about night mode.
<duflu> RAOF: That's a true statement, but not relevant.
<duflu> robert_ancell, what machine model did you experience that on?
<robert_ancell> duflu, that was on mpts laptop which I believe was an old Lenovo!?
<duflu> Yeah, still the same one I think. I will need to scroll back a lot to find his answer
 * RAOF might need to acquire another colourhug, as his seems to have dropped off the USB.
<duflu> RAOF: I seem to have had a couple of dicky USB cables. Took a while to find one that was reliable with it
<duflu> Can't remember if it was Kmart cables that caused the problem or solved it :)
<Trevinho> hi duflu
<duflu> hola Trevinho
<Trevinho> and hey RAOF... Do you know a bit the transformation code for Xorg?
<Trevinho> RAOF: as I was hitting and looking at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/issues/14
<gitbot> xorg issue 14 in xserver "Xorg crashes when it tries to resume a scale transformation after that it has been closed" [Opened]
 * duflu knows nothing if you're talking about the Xorg internals there
<RAOF> Urgh, vtable chains!
<Trevinho> RAOF: well, not either too much related to vtables as it's probably like the server tries to destroy something (the filters) earlier than the server is shut down
<Trevinho> I mean, I whish there was a XSerever destroyed thing, more than a CloseScreen
<RAOF> Why not break the ABI?
<duflu> It is a Tuesday after all
 * RAOF is reading the MR
<duflu> for some
<Trevinho> RAOF: not really a MR yet, just a commit
<RAOF> The Xorg ABI is pretty fluid :)
<Trevinho> RAOF: well, that would imply rebuilding all the drivers, but..
<Trevinho> ah ok :)
<RAOF> At least it was last I checked.
<RAOF> At least a couple of years ago the ABI broke once per Xserver release, so rebuilding all the drivers is not really a blocking issue :)
<Trevinho> you can do the reviewing or you know who point me for that? As depending on that we can discuss it
<Trevinho> like, if you can review / approve, and if breaking the ABI is feasible, we can do that :)
<duflu> Speaking of which... I have a theory that those Xorg crashes triggered by some snaps might be related to shipping ABI incompatibilities that Xorg isn't robust enough to handle
<Trevinho> mh, client side would be weird, isn't it?
<Trevinho> RAOF: ^
<RAOF> Snaps wouldn't be breaking on Xorg ABI changes.
<RAOF> I can't actually review, sorry; I've been out of the mainline of Xorg development for a while.
<duflu> RAOF: It's not the snaps breaking, but doing the breaking (bug 1754693)
<ubot5> bug 1754693 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xwayland/Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in st_renderbuffer_delete() from _mesa_reference_renderbuffer_() [often when running Skype or Slack snaps]" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754693
<RAOF> <freenode_duf "Speaking of which... I have a th"> Snaps can't interact with the Xorg loader at all. They *might* be sending messages unknown to the server, but that code is pretty robust.
<duflu> Actually, maybe same theory but Mesa not Xorg
<Trevinho> RAOF: ok, thanks anyways :)
<RAOF> Snaps *also* can't interact with GNOME Shell's dri loader ð
<RAOF> I'd expect that it's unrelated to snaps and the Skype client just makes the correct sequence of requests to trigger a common-or-garden Xserver bug.
<RAOF> (a way to test this hypothesis would involve using Xtrace to dump the protocol interactions)
<RAOF> Or maybe a llvmpipe bug.
<sarnold> duflu: thanks for joining together the gdm/plymouth bugs, I missed that you had asked for he new bug. :) thanks!
<duflu> sarnold, I actually went looking for the bug he said he created today, but did not find it because of "Private Security"
<sarnold> duflu: yeah.. I wish the new bug form made it easier to mark a bug security without making it private
<duflu> Trevinho, do you know how to make the Ubuntu Dock appear in a local build of gnome-shell? I can't get it to appear any more. Only the upstream dock
<duflu> --mode=ubuntu doesn't do it
<Trevinho> duflu: are you using that in your home or different home?
<duflu> Trevinho, a local build from home
<Trevinho> duflu: ok in any case you'd need this https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/825/
<duflu> Oh. I guess it needs to find extensions in a home-like location ?
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 825 in dash-to-dock "dash, docking: remove Shell.GenericContainer" [Open]
<Trevinho> duflu: so basically, install that in your home
<Trevinho> that's for latest gnome-shell
<duflu> Trevinho, thanks. I should have thought of the API break
<Trevinho> duflu: I think the log was showing that
<Trevinho> duflu: anyway, just apply that diff to the ubuntu-branch in case, and put that in your ~/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions/<extension-id>
<Trevinho> generally I also use a different home for such stuff though
<duflu> Yes, the log says that's the error
<Trevinho> just passing env HOME, not really to use a different user
<duflu> Maybe I'll just defer Ubuntu Dock work till it's all fixed in disco
<Trevinho> duflu: well, as you wish it's not really a problem once you've set thungs up
<Trevinho> duflu: I've something like this
<Trevinho> `ls -l /data/GNOME/JHBUILD_HOME/.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions/ -l`
<Trevinho> `lrwxrwxrwx 1 marco marco 18 ago 29 22:03 dash-to-dock@micxgx.gmail.com -> /data/dash-to-dock`
<Trevinho> so basically /dat/dash-to-dock is the git repo of it, while I launch gnome-shell with `HOME=/data/GNOME/JHBUILD_HOME`
<duflu> Trevinho, thanks. I haven't worked on dash-to-dock since switching to local builds. So I will do something like that next time I do
<Trevinho> duflu: really, you should use jhbuild though :)
<Trevinho> duflu: just add something like this as config (setting your paths) https://pastebin.com/tZXYfXnL
<duflu> Then I wouldn't find all the build bugs before everyone else
<Trevinho> once you've that you can just do `jhbuild build gnome-shell` and since there you've things set up, and you can also manually `ninja install` or whatever you prefer
<Trevinho> but at least you've all upstream stuff setup in your prefix, without having to care much about things and being able to track things if you need to install
<Trevinho> or uninstall
<duflu> I think I can handle typing --prefix=
<duflu> and env PKG_CONFIG_PATH=
<Trevinho> duflu: well, it's not just that especially for stuff that needs particular GIR stuff...
<Trevinho> duflu: these should be the envs actually https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/cth7dKB6Yr/
<Trevinho> well a part from my local ones :
<Trevinho> well better this
<Trevinho> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/f3RfExzG/runner.sh
<Trevinho> but well, that's for example to run gdm from that build installation, with a local gnome-shell or things like that
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> tkamppeter, jamesh, hey, don't forget your weekly update on the hub
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Hi seb128, jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<duflu> 'lo oSoMoN
<duflu> 'lu oSoMoN :)
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, how goes?
<duflu> oSoMoN, was going well but today the barber accidentally removed too much of my eyebrows. Otherwise good. You?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<oSoMoN> I'm good, it was a short night but IÂ feel rested and hopeful that this will be a productive day
<oSoMoN> sorry for your eyebrows duflu. luckily those things tend to grow again
<duflu> Yes, they were needing combing, which is too long
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> Morning mpt. Can you remind me what model laptop had the colour profile issue?
<willcooke> morning duflu, all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> hi seb128, how goes?
<seb128> good! you?
<seb128> done with the post-holidays catch? no surprise in there? ;)
<willcooke> email firehose, but pretty much caught up.  Yeah, no fires, thank you!
<willcooke> In other news, I have carpet and paint in my office
<willcooke> and a new monitor
<willcooke> No more squinting at a tiny screen \o/
<duflu> willcooke, are those two things also applied? :)
<willcooke> ha!  Yes, they are in the right place
<willcooke> no paint on the carpet
<willcooke> I've seen rather too much of Ikea in the last week though
<seb128> jamesh, tkamppeter, weekly summary reminder?
<seb128> willcooke, nice :) which one did you pick? 26"?
 * willcooke -> meeting.  Will send reminder after that
<seb128> enjoy!
<willcooke> seb128, 24" Dell ultrasharp.
<willcooke> it's lovely
<seb128> good to know
 * duflu highfives willcooke
<duflu> PremierColor FTW
<willcooke> It's got this awesome audio-pass-through feature, so depending on which input is selected, thats the audio which comes out the speakers
<duflu> I think DisplayPort does that as well as HDMI
<willcooke> yeah
<Laney> hey
<duflu> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<duflu> It's nice not needing to calibrate a monitor, because then you avoid bug 1785764
<ubot5> bug 1785764 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Chrome/Chromium and Image Viewer distort colours if a colour profile is enabled." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1785764
<seb128> I though that there was a default/computed profile so users would hit that problem even without doing calibration?
<duflu> seb128, Yes... but what I mean is with a factory calibrated monitor the workaround of not having a custom profile in software doesn't matter
<mpt> duflu, a MacBook 2008 vintage
<seb128> k
<duflu> Ah. Ta mpt
<Laney> hey duflu seb128
<Laney> seb128: i'm good, got to meet the transport guy from the council last night and ask him about cycling
<Laney> ...not much is coming...
<Laney> you?
<seb128> :(
<seb128> I'm good! slept well, but I got up early, it feels like middle of the night now at 6:30 :/
<Laney> :<
<Laney> its cold this week too
<seb128> yeah, near 0Â°C here and windy brrrr
<cpaelzer> Hi, I'm experimenting with virtual gpus and wonder where to check best for what is actually used atm
<cpaelzer> I see in lspci that I ahve both (qxl by kvm and an intel HD card passed through) in the guest
<cpaelzer> and I see Xorg.0.log mentioning qxl and i965 drivers
<cpaelzer> what would be the best place to verify which e.g. xrandr outputs are of which driver and stuff like that?
<duflu> cpaelzer, if you have multiple GPUs then each app is free to choose which one it uses. Do you have one or multiple?
<duflu> In that case, only the app can answer the question. To see what the default one is, install mesa-utils and then run 'glxinfo'
<cpaelzer> the guest has multiple gpus now
<cpaelzer> thanks checking out glxinfo ...
<duflu> cpaelzer, you can also use standard Unix tools like lsof and fuser to find which GPU each process has open (/dev/dri/card*). You can also look at the outputs that are directly wired to each card in /sys/class/drm/...
<duflu> Although those are cards, vs render nodes. I think it would still answer your questions
<cpaelzer> duflu: yeah that clearly got me further
<cpaelzer> glxinfo was a lot of output and nothing clear - I assume I'd see multiple "Device" entries there if it fully initializes
<cpaelzer> but there is only one entry for a virtual device
<cpaelzer> yet the /dev/dri/card has both entries, so that is good at leas
<cpaelzer> t
<duflu> cpaelzer, I think a GL/EGL/GLX context is only ever bound to one GPU. So 'glxinfo' will only ever give one answer
<cpaelzer> ah ok that would be ok for glxinfo then
<cpaelzer> also the /sys/class/drm looks good, essentially card0 (the virtual one) has 4 virtual outputs and the card1 (passthrough) has exactly the external port config of my system
<cpaelzer> duflu: do you know how I know could make an application use card1-hdmi1 for example?
<cpaelzer> if that makes any sense
<cpaelzer> the UI itself seems on card0 with output "virtual0"
<duflu> cpaelzer, it kind of makes sense. You have to tell the app (and the app must support) manual selection of a /dev/dri/cardN. Then once the card is selected you choose the output
<duflu> However... APPS only use /dev/dri/cardN. The display server is fixed to whatever card you are physically plugged into, in the least
<duflu> Hmm. Or do apps get away with just using render nodes? I'm not sure now
<duflu> cpaelzer, one more tip before I log off. This will show you active monitors:   grep . /sys/class/drm/*/enabled
<duflu> grep . /sys/class/drm/*/enabled
<duflu> or just:  grep enabled /sys/class/drm/*/enabled
<cpaelzer> thanks
<cpaelzer> all seem enabled except a virtual port - I think that would only exist in a docking station, but that is fine
<oSoMoN> seb128, re https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746422#c60, do you reckon it would be acceptable to SRU n-m 1.10.14 to bionic
<ubot5> Gnome bug 746422 in IP and DNS config "[CVE-2018-1000135] Unencrypted DNS queries leaked outside full-tunnel VPN" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<oSoMoN> ?
<willcooke> I would like to see that too, but will see what seb says
<seb128> oSoMoN, willcooke, the shorter/easier the diff the better I feel about a SRU, that one is non trivial but should be doable with proper testing I guess... depends how important we consider the issue to be and how risky the change is
<oSoMoN> seb128, I can prepare test packages in a PPA to give it a solid round of testing before we decide what to do
<seb128> oSoMoN, wfm, we can also give it a solid round of testing once it's in proposed
<willcooke> oSoMoN, hit me up with the ppa and I will start testing
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-11-20
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 20 14:30:37 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-11-20 | Current topic:
<tseliot> o/
<seb128> hey
<Nafallo> o/
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> hey
<oSoMoN> ðµ/
<andyrock> o/
<kenvandine> \o
 * willcooke tries to remember how to do this
<willcooke> Lets review the rls bugs
<willcooke> Looks like everyone has updated their bugs (based on the hub post)
<willcooke> bb-incoming : http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> nothing for us atm
<willcooke> rls-bb-tracking: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> Everything is assigned
<willcooke> correction
<willcooke> L_aney assigned this to tjaalton https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1714178
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1714178 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Triple 4K monitor display failed (modesetting driver limited to 8192x8192)" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> and this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/amd/+bug/1770271
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770271 in mesa (Ubuntu Bionic) "VegaM support" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> and this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/bionic/+source/mesa/+bug/1798597
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798597 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Bionic) "Backport packages for 18.04.2 HWE stack" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> sounds good
<willcooke> cc incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> willcooke, on -bb you forgot https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libssh/+bug/1800135
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1800135 in libssh (Ubuntu Bionic) "libssh-dev is missing cmake find module" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> L_aney in his email recommends -notfixing
<seb128> which I'm +1 with
<willcooke> ah, I didnt think that was one for us
<willcooke> ah, kk
<seb128> it doesn't impact Ubuntu Desktop
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> +1 from me
<seb128> let's do that then :)
<willcooke> looks like the tag is already gone
<seb128> right, because it's nomination accepted
<seb128> I wonder if rls-bb-notfixing works for those case?
<willcooke> I added it anyway
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> cc-incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1754693
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1754693 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xwayland/Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in st_renderbuffer_delete() from _mesa_reference_renderbuffer_() [often when running Skype or Slack snaps]" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> IMO we should try and fix that one
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> but... it's wayland, so less important
<willcooke> hrm
<willcooke> I still think we need to, because it will be broken elsewhere
<seb128> yeah, also it makes those snap not work as good
<seb128> and wayland is default on some other distros
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> oki, +1 to fix
<seb128> we need an assignee though
<willcooke> tjaalton, would you be able to take a look at it? ^
<seb128> tjaalton can you ... what will said :)
<willcooke> while we wait, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1799293
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1799293 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome session: Must ask twice to lock the screen" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> +1 to accept the nomination
<willcooke> L_aney said it's pretty rare and edge-casey.  I agree notfixing, but we work on it as time allows anyway
<andyrock> well it's a security issue if you close your laptop
<andyrock> and the lockscreen is no there when you re-open it
<willcooke> then dont enable auto login :)
<andyrock> I mean you suspend it
<seb128> it's not only autologin
<willcooke> oh
<willcooke> ahhh
<andyrock> I'm pretty sure it has the same root case of dash-to-dock over lockscreen
<willcooke> this could be related to the problems that you were having jibel
<andyrock> at least in one varaint
<willcooke> andyrock, yeah
<seb128> one of the comments mentions bg setting
<seb128> I was going to say that
<tjaalton> willcooke: okay
<willcooke> thank you tjaalton
<seb128> andyrock, do you want to take on that?
<andyrock> the main variant of the dash-to-dock over lockscreen is that both are enabled
<andyrock> and I'm fixing it
<seb128> +1 from me on nominating based on the fact that's it's screen failing to lock which is border security
<willcooke> in which case, thanks andyrock
<andyrock> than there is the other variant (and I think it shares the same main cause)
<andyrock> no idea what's the cause but it needs to be fixed
<willcooke> assigned it and targetted to C
<willcooke> it wouldnt let me target D
<andyrock> thx
<willcooke> and the next one is: http://launchpad.net/bugs/1769383
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769383 in gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock (Ubuntu Disco) "Ubuntu dock/launcher is shown on the lock screen" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> which we covered above and is assigned
<seb128> right
<willcooke> dd incoming: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<andyrock> I would target bionic for 1769383 too
<willcooke> andyrock, done
<willcooke> dd has the same bug as we already talked about
<willcooke> k, that's the end of the list I think
<willcooke> anyone want to talk about those before we move on to AOB
<willcooke> if they do, we can come back round again
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2018-11-20 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> I remember there being a question from the hub
<willcooke> didrocks I think you suggested someone come and ask something, can you remember what?
<didrocks> yes, I don't remember the question though :p
<willcooke> I'll look
<didrocks> ah, it's something that clobrano already asked
<didrocks> IIRC
<didrocks> so, that's settled :)
<willcooke> in the meantime, do you think we will get the new d-2-d in D?  With the window preview ordering "fixes"?
<clobrano> hey :D
<didrocks> hey clobrano :)
<willcooke> hey clobrano
<didrocks> unsure I have time currently with the installer work
<clobrano> hi willcooke , didrocks
<didrocks> so, probably in a quieter time, if no-one beats me to do the upload
<willcooke> didrocks, ack, thx
<didrocks> same for Yaru btw, would be need if someone cut a new release
<didrocks> nice*
<willcooke> nod
<clobrano> didrocks: what question? :)
<didrocks> clobrano: willcooke will have a look again
<willcooke> cant find it, I'll look it out after the meeting
<willcooke> anyone got anything else?
<willcooke> guess not.
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 20 14:53:50 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-11-20-14.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<oSoMoN> thanks
<willcooke> Ah, I found it - but it was from 5 months ago, and someone just replied now :)
<willcooke> so ignore me
<andyrock> thx
<tseliot> sorry, I missed the chance to update you on nvidia
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> tseliot, np, now is good
<seb128> tseliot, you can still do now :)
<tseliot> willcooke: just FYI, I uploaded nvidia 410.78 in disco. It will be an additional flavour, in addition to 390, which will be a legacy driver. And I plan to backport 410 to Bionic.
<willcooke> nice!
<didrocks> thx
<tseliot> the new nvidia is still in NEW, so it might take a while
<tseliot> that's all I have
<willcooke> thanks tseliot
<tseliot> :)
<Laney>  added: rls-cc-tracking
<Laney> that's not a tag btw
 * Laney nominates https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/1754693 and makes sure tasks on other bugs have assignees :-)
 * Laney the bug janitor
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1754693 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xwayland/Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in st_renderbuffer_delete() from _mesa_reference_renderbuffer_() [often when running Skype or Slack snaps]" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<Laney> anything for #ubuntu-desktop ð
<andyrock> didrocks: https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/pull/843
<gitbot> micheleg issue (Pull request) 843 in dash-to-dock " extension: Ensure signal disconnection " [Open]
<andyrock> could you take a look?
<didrocks> andyrock: will do tomorrow morning. Still in installer build
<andyrock> kk
<oSoMoN> willcooke, https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/nm-lp1754671/+packages just built, I haven't actually tested, hopefully this doesn't break the internet badly
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN, I will install it tomorrow and report back
<willcooke> or not
<willcooke> depending :)
<oSoMoN> :)
 * oSoMoN calls it a day
<oSoMoN> have a good evening everyone
<willcooke> dinner time, night all
<popey> I <3 the update posts on discourse. Especially all the lovely icons and emoji! :D
<andyrock> seb128: still here? do you mind creating the ubuntu/cosmic branch for gnome-control-center ?
<andyrock> I want to prepare the SRU
<seb128> andyrock, k, I can do that
<seb128> andyrock, k, done, I created it from the 1:3.30.1-1ubuntu2  tag which is the current cosmic version
<seb128> on that note, calling it a day, night desktopers
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I have a gnome-software 3.28.1-0ubuntu4.18.04.7 SRU which has one of the bugs as failed on the pending-sru page - this bug was in the .6 SRU and removed in .7 - do you know if this is holding back the SRU from being verified?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: That probably would be holding back the verification (or, at least, would be preventing people from acting on it). Why is it still marked as failed?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, the fix caused another issue so was abandoned. So it shouldn't be considered part of the SRU anymore.
<RAOF> Ok, there's something weird with that SRU.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Aaah! I think someone accidentally accepted it into -proposed without a complete .changes list.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, I think I missed the -v when building the source package
<RAOF> Or maybe not? I'm not entirely sure how to read this launchpad output.
<robert_ancell> So it is in proposed, but I wonder if the bug being marked red means it will stay there
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Right, which is why the bug tracking is screwy.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: And why it hasn't actually been verified.
<RAOF> Only one of the green bugs on the pending-sru page has actually been verified against the version of the upload in -proposed.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ok, I'll chase up the verifiers to reconfirm.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I'm not entirely sure how to proceed here; the *simplest* thing for me would be to ask you to upload again with a correct .changes file, accept that, and it will trigger all the necessary âplease verifyâ requests.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, can I re-use the .7 version?
<RAOF> Nope, it'd need to be .8
<robert_ancell> *sigh*
<RAOF> Launchpad has seen the .7 version, and what Launchpad sees cannot be unseen!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so would you like me to do that then?
<RAOF> I think that would be simplest, yes. Please do so.
<robert_ancell> And the .changes should have changes from .5 .6 .7 and .8 in it right?
<RAOF> Correct. Everything since the current version in -updates
<RAOF> That will leave #1754864 incorrectly marked as fixed, I think, but I'll manually fix the status post-acceptance.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, uploaded
<RAOF> Ta. RAOF
<RAOF> Sorry about the faffing.
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-21
<robert_ancell> RAOF, the faffing comes with the old technology :)
<RAOF> :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, slightly unwell but otherwise good. How are you?
<seb128> oh :( get better then!
<seb128> I'm good, having still a bit of a cold still though :/
<duflu> :\
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, do you plan to upstream those recent plymouth patches you upload or do you need help with that? (I'm happy to create gitlab.freedesktop.org PRs for those)
<didrocks> hello!
<duflu> Hello didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<willcooke> morning gang
<willcooke> rebooting, brb
<Laney> hey thereeeee
<willcooke> morning Laney
<didrocks> hey willcooke, Laney
<duflu> o/  willcooke, Laney
<Laney> OH MAN
<Laney> WHAT A LINEUP
<Laney> HEY WILLCOOKE DIDROCKS DUFLU YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<duflu> I want we he's having. Half dose
<willcooke> Someone's had their Wheatabix
<willcooke> * Weetabix
<willcooke> (TM)
<willcooke> So, I'm trying to verify this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1784363
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1784363 in grub2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "High delay when booting (grub waits with a blank purple screen for 10 seconds before booting the kernel)" [High,Fix committed]
<willcooke> but it talks about installing grub-pc, and I don't have grub-pc installed
<willcooke> is that right?!
<Laney> that's the bios one isn't it?
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> that would make sense
<seb128> hey Laney willcooke
<willcooke> I now have grub2 2.02-2ubuntu8.9 and it looks fixed now
<seb128> nice
<duflu> Speaking of which... seb128 have you looked into the seamless UEFI booting that Red Hat was doing?
<seb128> does anyone here has usb-c to help verifying bug #1800715?
<ubot5> bug 1800715 in bolt (Ubuntu Bionic) "Prompt for credential when it shouldn't" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1800715
<duflu> I've been thinking for years it would be nice
<seb128> duflu, yeah, funny you mention it, I was co-working with Hans from RH who works on that a week ago
<seb128> he got his changes merged upstream for different component, just not for grub because grub... we should perhaps look at backporting that
<seb128> willcooke, oh also, he suggested upstream changes to plymouth to improve the "plymouth is showing for a second" issue, https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/plymouth/plymouth/issues/64
<gitbot> plymouth issue 64 in plymouth "[PATCH] Update splash_delay based on previous boot's time" [Bugzilla, Opened]
<seb128> I didn't know by today plymouth has a fixed 5 seconds delay before kicking in
<seb128> to avoid extra transitions on fast machines, like you don't get it at all
<duflu> I was about to ask about that too. Rumors for years have been that plymouth slows boot down
<seb128> but then if you boot takes 8 secondes you have it for 3 seconds which is worth than having it for 8 seconds
<seb128> that patch he suggested would adapt according to the recorded boot time from the machine
<willcooke> oooh
<willcooke> nice
<duflu> seb128, surely the cleanest solution is to skip plymouth then? For initial boot at least
<willcooke> seb128, @ usb-c - no, fraid not.  I will ping YC and/or Jerry and ask them to find someone to test it
<duflu> We could just animate below the UEFI/BIOS logo screen until gdm is ready
<Laney> willcooke: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1784363/comments/14
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1784363 in grub2 (Ubuntu Bionic) "High delay when booting (grub waits with a blank purple screen for 10 seconds before booting the kernel)" [High,Fix committed]
<Laney>    Installed: (none)
<willcooke> ?!?!!?!?
<willcooke> what did I do
<Laney> probably grub2-common is the one
<willcooke> yes
<willcooke> thank you
<willcooke> updated#
<seb128> duflu, skip in which cases? also you can't really skip it, it's not only the splash screen but also handling prompting for disk password and stuff
<duflu> seb128, I forgot about that. I just mean there are too many transitions. So yes if we can make plymouth not appear at all on fast unencrypted systems then that would be some improvement
<willcooke> seb128,  @ bolt - I've pinged OEM
<seb128> I tried the fc29 iso on my inspiron, it feels a bit weird. what they do to avoid the transitions is to keep the vendor logo on screen for the boot
<willcooke> yeah I saw that too
<seb128> it feels weird to me to have the dell logo sitting there for 15 seconds
<duflu> Unless plymouth can be ported to render within the bottom half of the UEFI BIOS splash screen
<willcooke> ditto
<andyrock> morning!
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi andyrock
<willcooke> I asked Dell about that too, they said that one /could/ set one's own BIOS logo thingy
<andyrock> seb128: are you sure you pushed the branch ubuntu/cosmic yesterday?
<seb128> duflu, right, well if your system boots in less than 5 seconds you should already be not seeing it
<duflu> seb128, unfortunately I am around 7-9 seconds
<willcooke> seb128, also Windows doesn't do that, it has a Windows logo (afaicr)
<seb128> andyrock, https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/log/?h=ubuntu/cosmic
<seb128> andyrock, unsure why it's not listed on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+git/gnome-control-center
<seb128> maybe a question for #launchpad
<seb128> duflu, you can tweak the timeout in by creating a /usr/share/plymouth/plymouthd.defaults with
<seb128> [Daemon]
<seb128> ShowDelay=10
<duflu> OK
<seb128> if you want to try how it feels like
<seb128> but yeah, I'm going to nag about resuming the discussion on https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/plymouth/plymouth/issues/64
<gitbot> plymouth issue 64 in plymouth "[PATCH] Update splash_delay based on previous boot's time" [Bugzilla, Opened]
<duflu> Right. So as I understand it, eventually a fast system will go from the BIOS logo straight to the login screen... ?
<duflu> Although it would be nice if some Ubuntu stuff appeared below the BIOS logo
<andyrock> seb128: asking
<seb128> andyrock, thx, I guess you can probably work with the repo and mp without issue, just an UI bug
<andyrock> yeah
<seb128> duflu, right, the current implementation does keep the bios logo on screen during the whole boot, which feels a bit weird, but they do plan to add a spinner/animation under the logo
<seb128> so it would be
<duflu> Yeah. So the machine looks alive
<seb128> bios logo -> logo/bg doesn't change but a spinner get added when you reach plymouth -> gdm
<willcooke> seb128, duflu - I remember something else Dell said - the background colour on those BIOS logos probably won't be transparent, so merging the logo and the Plymouth output might not be doable
<duflu> willcooke, I imagine there's an Intel UEFI spec for it
<willcooke> xnox knows the spec :)
<willcooke> (if he was here he would be sad now)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> yeah, there is a spec
<seb128> hat described boot path is only on machines which provides what is needed to fetch the logo etc
<seb128> the other day Hans was having fun dealing with screen rotations on some devices with small screen which default to portrait mode
<duflu> Yeah tablets are often wired natively for portrait
<seb128> willcooke, https://fedorapeople.org/~jwrdegoede/flickerfree-videos/workstation-normal.webm is a video of how it currently looks
<willcooke> yeah I saw that one.  I don't like it as much as our one with the Ubuntu logo etc
<willcooke> it looks like it's not doing anything
<willcooke> IMO
<seb128> I'm not really convinced that without the animation it's a better experience than what we current have, sure there are less transitions but there is also less feedback
<seb128> it looks stucked on bios for a while to me
<willcooke> same
<duflu> seb128, I agree
<seb128> k, so seems like we are in agreement to not try to squeeze that in disco yet
<duflu> But I also think plymouth should be reusing the lower part of the screen and not creating extra fullscreen transitions
<willcooke> that would be nice
<willcooke> seb128, I agree
<duflu> Unless it can nicely animate the BIOS logo away
<willcooke> or even blank the screen without flickering/changing modes etc
<seb128> willcooke, duflu, ah, you can also add "plymouth.splash-delay=0" to the kernel options in grub instead of editing the config, if you want to see the difference without timeout
<willcooke> I'll try that later
<seb128> duflu, right, I'm unsure animating the logo can be easily done
<andyrock> Laney: gnome-control-center 3.30.2-1ubuntu1 is in disco but the git branch is not updated https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/log/
<Laney> terrible
<duflu> It only depends on whether you can read/write the whole screen, which I imagine you can
<seb128> willcooke, duflu, at least one of the changes to to have grub not change the framebuffer if it's not displaying the menu, that bit should land this cycle through upstream updates&co (and maybe we need to backport a grub patch as well) and be a small improvement
<duflu> Yes, sounds like a good first step
<willcooke> that will be a nice improvement
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> np
<Laney> there you go
<duflu> Though I can't tell people to "Press Esc when you see the blank purple screen" which may be a problem
<andyrock> Laney: nice!! thx for the quick fix
<Laney> no worries
<seb128> andyrock, Colin replied to you on the other channel btw, so yeah UI refresh bug on launchpad
<seb128> let's not worry about it, it should pick up when we commit some changes
 * Laney did that rescan thing
<seb128> which works too
<seb128> good than some people are less lazy than me, I would just have waited for the next commit :)
<Laney> yeh :p
<andyrock> mmm for the SRU (g-c-c/cosmic) should I merge with ubuntu/1%3.30.2-1ubuntu1 or with debian debian/1%3.30.2-1
<andyrock> there is a patch that needs to be dropped (the one that lowercase the username)
<andyrock> *lowercases
<seb128> usually we don't do merges for SRU but stick to the minimal diff
<seb128> now if merging the update and taking out some changes is easier for you feel free to do that
<seb128> I think that's the result which counts, the way you get to it is up to you, doesn't matter much
<andyrock> well it's a new upstream release (3.30.1 to 3.30.2) so we need some merging
<seb128> no we don't
<seb128> you could gbp import-orig the tarball on the cosmic branch
<seb128> no?
<seb128> though the import might complain about the pristine-tar already having it
<andyrock> let me try
<seb128> so yeah, you probably want to at least merge the changes up to the import of the orig from master
<seb128> andyrock, ^
<seb128> that's probably easier
<seb128> then if there are not other extra packaging changes etc it's probably fine/easier to just import ubuntu/1%3.30.2-1ubuntu1
<andyrock> so uscan will not work because there is already an upstream tag 'upstream/3.30.2'
<andyrock> I guess that merging with 'upstream/3.30.2' would be enough
<andyrock> + minimal changes to debian to make it work if required
<seb128> andyrock, I would merge eb3c501e
<seb128> and then take out the uppercase patch
<seb128> 9a196f3f is probably noise for a SRU and going to make the diff more difficult to review so I would keep that out
<andyrock> would be nice to hide changes to .po files in launchpad
<andyrock> every diff got 5000+ lines just for that
<jbicha> I'm just glad more stuff uses meson (or cmake) so we don't have the autotools clutter in the new release diffs
<andyrock> Laney: hi updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozjs60/+bug/1796238 to make it SRU compliant
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796238 in gjs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "[SRU][regression] mozjs60 crashes with SIGSEGV on gnome-shell exit, in GetPropertyOperation() from Interpret() from js::RunScript()" [Medium,In progress]
<andyrock> new gjs + new mutter should make `gnome-shell -replace` work again
<andyrock> someone should prepare the upload (using the same packages from disco)
<Laney> andyrock: ok, can you make a bug for mutter too please? or convert existing ones
<Laney> can upload those later probably
<andyrock> kk
<Laney> merci :>
<andyrock> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1804448
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1804448 in mutter (Ubuntu) "SRU Mutter 3.30.2-1 to cosmic" [Undecided,New]
<andyrock> I could not find a better bug
<andyrock> *good
<andyrock> so I created one
<cyphermox> seb128: I haven't had time to do it yet, but I will today
<seb128> cyphermox, good, thx, let me know if you need help (also would be nice to update to 0.9.5 in disco, that might fix some of our segfault issues who knows, it would for sure make easier to upstream reports than having them coming from an older version with a stack of patches)
<Laney> #plymouth exists btw - I found it a good place to discuss when I was writing those other patches
<Laney> they ended up better than I would have made them when working in isolation
<oSoMoN> willcooke, have you had a chance to install network-manager 1.10.14 on bionic from https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/nm-lp1754671/+packages ?
<seb128> cyphermox, ^ in case you are not reading the channel, L_aney comment might be useful to you
<willcooke> oSoMoN, installed it, need to reboot
<willcooke> which I will do now
<willcooke> oSoMoN, well, I'm online :)
<willcooke> I will test with some wifis
<willcooke> but I'd prefer to give it at least until the start of next week before I declare it OK
<oSoMoN> willcooke, yeah, let's not rush this
<willcooke> hrm, first problem (but might be my end) I can't authenticate to a wifi network
<willcooke> oSoMoN, Yeah, seems like connecting to a wifi network from Settings generates a "Failed to authenticate" notification the first n times, and then goes away.  Feels like maybe it's converting some settings from old to new, and then works afterwards (pure speculation).  I will need to install it on my test machine from fresh again and see.
<willcooke> To be clear: it's now working fine though
<oSoMoN> hrmm, it should have worked at the first attempt though, that's concerning
<willcooke> it might still be me, I was messing with my wifi access points recently
<willcooke> so I;d like to try from scratch
<cyphermox> seb128: well, I'm all setup for gitlab now; so I'll be submitting the patches/PRs. do you care to be CCed or otherwise notified?
<seb128> cyphermox, no, it's fine, I can follow up/subscribe there
<cyphermox> ok
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm just trying to make sure we do upstream our changes, especially on packages that are not easy to maintain ... we got bitten by old n-m patches that were never applied and where we don't have anyone understanding the code enough to update them and I don't want that to happen again if we can avoid it :)
<seb128> also working upstream usually makes sense, they know their code and can help fixing things the right way or spot errors
<cyphermox> of course
<cyphermox> fwiw the NM patches you're referring to are completely unapplicable, and I don't understand the code any better to make them work
<cyphermox> seb128: !10, !11, !12
<seb128> ?
<seb128> cyphermox, and yeah, I was not especially blaming you for those, just saying that not upstreaming them at the time was an error which has been bitten us back later
<cyphermox> *shrugs* it happens; discussion on IRC didn't lead at the time to a patch that was quite ready to upstream
<cyphermox> ok, already closed one of the plymouth PRs, it's well covered by Hans' PR, and I like the solution better
<seb128> :)
<seb128> cyphermox, thx for upstreaming those :)
<cyphermox> I really don't understand why the other guy still has crashes
<cyphermox> I spent a whole lot of time yesterday looking at the ASM for the functions, and figuring out exactly how it's blowing up
<cyphermox> I can't make sense of it, and it looks a bit like broken because of compiler optimization, but I'm not sure
<seb128> fun :/
<cyphermox> then, the asserts make even less sense.
<seb128> ask him to try building in -O0?
<cyphermox> *or* it's just another symptom of the same race, and potentially fixed by the keyboard deactivation patch I sent
<seb128> also maybe it would help to upstream if we rebase on 0.9.5/lower our patches, at least we can upstream the issue and see if they have a clue then
<seb128> ah, I see you asked already about -O0
<cyphermox> the patches apply cleanly
<cyphermox> the code isn't that meaningfully different that I can tell to explain the issues
<cyphermox> I mean, yeah, a newer plymouth would be good
<cyphermox> anyway, it's my plan to update it, just don't have the time just now
<cyphermox> seb128: I trade you a plymouth update for testing and finishing casper a11y? :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> nice try :)
<cyphermox> I'm talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1796275
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796275 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco) "Screen reader is not auto-enabled on first login if enabled when installing" [High,Triaged]
<cyphermox> I have the "revert" in progress, I could get you a casper that's 90% of the way there, but I don't know the gsettings as well as I used to, which wasn't much to begin with ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm happy to finish that work for you if you want
<seb128> so if you want to hand me that over and update plymouth instead we can do that deal :)
<cyphermox> that's what I meant
<seb128> cyphermox, k, let's do that
<willcooke> night all
<xnox> seb128, i had a ping from you, somewhere but i cannot find it
<xnox> only saw it on my phone.
<xnox> where was that?
<xnox> ah devel
<cyphermox> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~cyphermox/ubuntu/+source/casper/+git/casper/+ref/ubuntu/devel
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-22
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> cyphermox, thx for the wip casper vcs
<duflu> Umm hi seb128
<seb128> hey there duflu :)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<willcooke> Happy Black Friday Eve, consumers
 * Laney buys something
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> what is up willcooke
<willcooke> not much.
<willcooke> Had the heating on before getting out of bed this morning
<Laney> the humanity
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> The new carpet in my office is helping though, it's pretty warm in here now and I dont have to wrap a blanket around me
<Laney> hahah
<Laney> you did that?
<willcooke> nah, a man
<willcooke> I tried doing carpet once, it was a bit of a mess
<Laney> I mean the blanket thing
<Laney> my mum once did the carpet in my bedroom
<willcooke> Oh, ha
<Laney> it sucked
<Laney> don't think she used any carpet grips so it sort of shrank
<willcooke> Yeah, it was reallllly cold in here before
<duflu> Oh, morning willcooke and Laney
<willcooke> hi duflu
<seb128> re
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney didrocks oSoMoN
<seb128> how is everyone today?
<oSoMoN> hey seb128
<oSoMoN> I'm good, how are you?
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<Laney> hey duflu seb128 oSoMoN didrocks!!!
<Laney> all people who I would pick for my football team
 * Laney wonders if that is a transferrable cultural reference or not
<willcooke> hi seb128
<seb128> it makes sense translated in french I think
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va, a bit tired, I've been trying to get up at 6:45am to start early and shift some hours, it makes for more productive days but man, waking up early is not my thing :/
<oSoMoN> heh
<oSoMoN> Iâve been waking up at 6am for the past month or so, to get work done before the rest of the family wakes up, but it's hard, and the 1.5 hours it buys me go by way too fast, I'd have to wake up at 5am to feel like I'm getting stuff done
<oSoMoN> didrocks, I'd welcome your opinion on https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/issues/167 , when you have a moment (not urgent)
<gitbot> ubuntu issue 167 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "File open/save dialogs show $SNAP_USER_DATA instead of $HOME when selecting the home shortcut" [Open]
<seb128> oSoMoN, need more hours in the day :)
<oSoMoN> yeah, and a couple more at night wouldn't hurt either :)
<oSoMoN> or maybe I just need to be more efficient
<seb128> I don't think you are being un-efficient, it's just tricky to fit so much to do in a day
<seb128> oSoMoN, I commented on the desktop helper issue, to me it sounds like it's not desktop specific but rather deciding what's the right userdir to point to by default and that also apply to command line utilities
<seb128> I mean the right default when the real user dir is available through an interface
<didrocks> oSoMoN: yeah, I was wondering about that one for a while, still in a HO with j_ibel working on the installer. Mind if I think about it for EOW?
<didrocks> we need to think about potential impacts though, but I agree with seb128
<didrocks> unsure about impacts in "HOME"/.* files
<seb128> oSoMoN, it would be the same question to ask where a screenshot application should store the file by default for example
<oSoMoN> yeah
<seb128> yeah, also ~/.<nnn> are blocked by default I think
<seb128> so changing the return of the glib function might lead to have apps trying to write configs to dir they can't access
<didrocks> exactly
<didrocks> hence "we need to test/think about the impacts" ;)
<didrocks> but in the file opener, that would be great
<didrocks> unsure how we can decorellate those
<seb128> gtk patch :p
<oSoMoN> snaps connected to the home plug would expect files to be save to the real $HOME by default I guess, but we need to be wary of this interfering with writing/reading config files (many apps still check/fallback to $HOME/.config instead of using the XDG user dirs spec)
<didrocks> decorrelate*
<didrocks> yeahâ¦ patch
<oSoMoN> a gtk patch for just the file dialogs would be easy and self-contained, but how likely is it to be accepted upstream?
<seb128> we can try suggesting one
<seb128> I've a feeling it's going to be "thanks but no thanks" though :p
<didrocks> yeah, they will say, it's a portal thing
<didrocks> and everyone should use the standard API for getting through the portal
<didrocks> so your java app or whateverâ¦ :/
<juliank> Trevinho: I actually prepared a fix for the nautilus crash, but I get all sorts of hunk formatting changes due to using quilt vs whatever you used, so I'll leave it to you to remove the extra g_object_unref at the end of recent_thread_func
<juliank> seems you forgot to remove the unref when converting the declaration of the variable to autoptr
<Laney> it's gbp-pq
<juliank> Laney: i thought so
 * juliank should have looked at Vcs-git
<Laney> :>
<juliank> Let me upload that fix then
<Laney> might want to do a merge proposal to get it reviewed
<juliank> doing so
<Laney> ð
<juliank> Laney: did you type an emptyl ine, or do I have a unicode problem?
<Laney> I'd say the second one
<juliank> ugh
<Laney> it could be that *I* have one of those though
<juliank> I'm running weechat from stretch-backports in a tmux, and both of that is in a proot on a centos6 system
<juliank> I see it in the log file
<Laney> ð¤·
<Laney> if you want to be fully millenial compliant then you should fix that :P
<juliank> I'll try
<Laney> that setup sounds interesting though
<juliank> here's the merge: https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+git/nautilus/+merge/359188
<juliank> Laney: it is
<juliank> Laney: I'm considerign switching from shared hosting to a vps
<Laney> thx, I'll request Marco on that
<juliank> oh it's my tmux
<juliank> hell, it's actually mosh
<andyrock> seb128: I was taking a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1796622
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796622 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager IPv6 DAD lifetime behavior introduce security risk" [High,Confirmed]
<andyrock> wouldn't be better to wait for upstream to release 1.12.6 ?
<andyrock> not sure what's their timeline
<seb128> andyrock, that's not their current stable serie so unsure they plan to even do that
<seb128> andyrock, there has been a CVE fix is there so maybe it would make sense to ask them if they plan to get a .6 out?
<andyrock> let me ask
<andyrock> kk I asked on #nm if they're planning a new 1.12 release and what's the timeline (if any)
<andyrock> seb128: "let's do 1.12.6 then either tomorrow or next week." that's what they told me
<seb128> andyrock, \o/
<seb128> andyrock, where did you ask? they have an irc channel?
<andyrock> seb128: #nm
<seb128> ah, you said that, #nm
<andyrock> seb128: do you know if we're going to switch to nm 1.14 in disco?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> possibly directly 1.15
<andyrock> he just said that 1.16 is close
<andyrock> we might consider it
<seb128> I was expecting them to follow GNOME's schedule and just start on 1.15?
<andyrock> for what I understand 1.15 is a dev release?
<andyrock> seb128: so bionic is using nm 1.10.6 and there is already a nm 1.10.14 release with the fix
<andyrock> what should we do?
<andyrock> release the new version or keep the changes to the minimum (so releasing  1.10.6-2ubuntu2)
<seb128> andyrock, we should update n-m to current 1.10 in bionic, unsure if we consider that ipv6 bug important enough to go by itself in a SRU round before though, I would like to get willcooke's/security team opinion about that
<seb128> andyrock, I can handle the 1.10 update in bionic if we go for the full version update directly
<willcooke> Reading along in #nm sounds like that 1.10 update could be done pretty soon, right?
<andyrock> it's already released so should be quick
<willcooke> If there won't be weeks of delay, then seems reasonable to go directly to the new nm instead of SRUing and then SRUing again
<seb128> willcooke, you clearly having more confidence than me than doing a jump of 6 versions including new feature is going to go smoothly through without any regression/verification issue on the way :)
<Laney> not covered by the SRU exception though, so you get to do separate convincing of the team that it should go in
<willcooke> Well, that's makes the decision a bit easier then :)
<seb128> willcooke, you just changed your mind? ;)
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> haha
<willcooke> I'm sure that the ipv6 issue was important, so lets move forward with that at least
<seb128> k, good
<willcooke> I'm running o_SoMoN's  PPA, so far it's been ok, except for some wifi funnies yesterday.  I need to go mobile though and test on a few different wifi Aps
<willcooke> APs
<willcooke> perhaps a trip to the office and back
<willcooke> Train wifi, coffee wifi, office wifi, and back again
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> I'll do that next week
<willcooke> I nice little day out
<oSoMoN> andyrock, seb128: 1.10.14 for bionic is in https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/nm-lp1754671/+packages , if you feel adventurous and want to give it some testing
<willcooke> please do :)
<andyrock> seb128: I created a gbp repo for network manager
<andyrock> should we use it?
<seb128> andyrock, https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/log/?h=bionic ?
<seb128> or what do you mean "created"?
<seb128> you mean you have a branch for the update?
<seb128> oSoMoN, was that the one to test the other fix you handed to will yesterday?
<oSoMoN> seb128, yes
<seb128> k
<andyrock> seb128: ah there is already one nice. I could not find it
<seb128> my pesonal preference would go to do several rounds, starting by one including just important/safe changes that can be verified
<oSoMoN> that sounds reasonable
<seb128> andyrock, tip on that, usually you can start by looking to Vcs- info in debian/control
<seb128> (or use debcheckout which does that)
<oSoMoN> the fix for bug #1754671 requires pretty intrusive changes that cannot be easily cherry-picked on top of 1.10.6, though
<ubot5> bug 1754671 in network-manager (Ubuntu Bionic) "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754671
<oSoMoN> but maybe bug #1796622 is easier in that regard?
<ubot5> bug 1796622 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager IPv6 DAD lifetime behavior introduce security risk" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796622
<andyrock> oSoMoN: it's not super-clear which commits need to be cherry-picked
<seb128> andyrock, oSoMoN, k, I try to have a look to what we can include in that first round of SRU, I probably do that next week
<seb128> I let you know
<Laney> it's risky in a different way, that gives you combinations of changes that haven't been tested together - and if the cherry-picks aren't clean then you have the chance of introducing new bugs
<seb128> right, it depends of what you include in the SRU
<seb128> I was going to do a first one with some segfault & obvious fixes
<seb128> landing more complex changeset is trickier indeed
<seb128> also easy/selected fixes make it easy to go through SRU review & validations
<seb128> when including new versions with a stack of changes without LP bugs is going to be more challenging
<seb128> especially without ffe
<seb128> standaing exception I mean
<Laney> k
<Laney> sounds from what the people who looked at the bugs that are targetted were saying like they are not easy to take in isolation
<seb128> yeah, that's probably true for the main ones we discussed in the rls- bugs reviews
<seb128> looking at the NEWS from those updates there are also a bunch of other LP bugs fixes that are segfaults and such
<seb128> no ideal situation, maybe trying to go for the full set directly is more efficient (though more likely to lead to nothing landing and the obvious bugs to not get fixed soon)
<Laney> not sure about the bracketed part, I would think that something could be worked out with the SRU team
<Laney> or on the other side confirmation that it would be a problem
<Laney> anyway, it's not me doing the work, so just my empty opinion
<seb128> thx for the input
<seb128> but yeah, I'm not too concerned about the SRU team
<seb128> it's just a matter of doing enough paperwork to please them basically
<seb128> it's just that we don't have high confidence atm that some of those complex changesets are going to be validated without regression
<seb128> if it turns out they break some usecase/have some issues that's going to rightly block the SRU
<seb128> we really need to find/hire a n-m maintainer :)
<Laney> k, I would argue that taking a random mix of commits is also quite risky too
<Laney> going for lunch now, see you
<seb128> true
<seb128> enjoy!
<seb128> tjaalton, unsure if you saw, but the xserver-xorg-video-intel sync from Debian is blocked in disco-proposed because it makes xserver-xorg-video-intel-hwe-18.04-dbg uninstallable ... unsure if that should be delete from disco, updated, ...?
<tjaalton> seb128: I'll check
<seb128> thx
<tjaalton> -dbg should probably be removed
<tjaalton> new xorg-lts-transitionals uploaded, should fix this
<seb128> tjaalton, thx!
<andyrock> didrocks: do you mind creating an ubuntu-dock-cosmic branch?
<andyrock> I don't have write permissions
<didrocks> andyrock: sure, one sec
<didrocks> andyrock: based on which commit?
<didrocks> sorry, still in the HO, so not responsive :p
<andyrock> https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/commit/73297451a0941a4c5bd98760bfd860ce7f284701 ?
<didrocks> ack
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> I can't either btw
<didrocks> you need to ask Michele
<didrocks> as he's the branch owner
<andyrock> kk I'll send him an email
<seb128> willcooke, did you have issues on bionic with your iphone, like it not being detected/properly handled if you disconnect it from the computer and plug it in again?
<seb128> jbicha, congrats for making it to lwn :p
<seb128> the man who screwed the debian non-main-arches :)
<willcooke> seb128, nope, it just worked
<willcooke> seb128, as far as browsing photos went
<seb128> willcooke, :/
<willcooke> I'll see if elmo is in the office next week when/if I go in, he's not replied to my mails
<seb128> willcooke, well, the device should not be seen after being disconnected/reconnected, but that's for those which needs ubmuxd which might be only more recent models
<seb128> willcooke, the issue I was talking about is another one I just did a SRU for (bug #1778767)
<ubot5> bug 1778767 in usbmuxd (Debian) "iPhone doesn't charge when plugged in after disconnect" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1778767
<seb128> or maybe it's the same and I didn't understand the problem from elmo when you described it
<willcooke> one sec, let me try it
 * willcooke goes to look for a cable
<willcooke> Plugged in phone, phone told me to unlock to use the accessory
<willcooke> unlocked and phone is chargine
<willcooke> g
<willcooke> and I can see photos
<seb128> I guess by "doesn't charge" it means "isn't being handled"
<seb128> good
<seb128> can you eject/disconnect and try to plug it again now?
<willcooke> I need to reconnect it now to see if it will still charge
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> it made the charging noise, but it isnt actually charging
<willcooke> trying the work around from: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2376741&p=13722029#post13722029
<willcooke> and yes, the work around makes it charge again
<willcooke> so legit
<willcooke> It could be that's what elmo's problem was all along
<willcooke> I will verify that fix once it's in proposed
<seb128> great, thx for testing
<seb128> will ping you again once the SRU is approved :)
<willcooke> glad to be of service
<jbicha> seb128: I sign autographs for a nominal charge ;)
<seb128> hehe
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-23
<robert_ancell> RAOF, what should I do about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1754864 for the SRU?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1754864 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Bionic) "Flatpak related refs are not installed when using GNOME Software on Ubuntu 18.04" [Low,Triaged]
<robert_ancell> Mark it as verified with a note that the change isn't there?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Bah. I thought I could trick the pending-sru report by removing the verification-needed tag.
<RAOF> Marked as verification-done.
<duflu> Speaking of SRUs, could anyone (RAOF?) please help me with the nomination in bug 1803271 ?
<ubot5> bug 1803271 in gjs (Ubuntu) "[regression] Much higher CPU during some gnome-shell operations" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803271
<duflu> My patch isn't appearing in the sponsorship queue, I think because of that
<duflu> Ta muchly
<RAOF> np
<duflu> Weirdly, the latest entry in the sponsorship queue has my name on it despite not being my bug
<duflu> Unrelated
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<RAOF> Hey seb128!
<seb128> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> seb128: Good. Wading through symbols files for a C++ projectâ¦
<seb128> those are always fun :/
<RAOF> Indeed!
<seb128> Trevinho, hey Marco, I'm not sure to understand your comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~juliank/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+git/nautilus/+merge/359188 ... you want that fix to be merged or you prefer not because you work on changes that deprecate it?
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going well. Busy with a backport that's long overdue
<duflu> Ready in a sec
<duflu> How is seb128?
<seb128> I'm good, still having a bit of a cold and could have slept longer though. It's ok, it's friday, almost the w.e :)
<duflu> Boo, and yay
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> Ã§a va, un peu le rhume encore et un peu fatiguÃ©, mais c'est bientÃ´t le w.e :)
<seb128> et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, vivement le week-end oui, bien fatiguÃ© par cette nouvelle semaine chargÃ©e
<seb128> hehe, friday ftw \o/
<didrocks> yep!
<Trevinho> seb128: hey... I'm saying that both are fine
<Trevinho> But since we're going for 3.30 probably that is better
<duflu> Oh hey Trevinho, I just stopped for a guacamole break, and thought of you :)
<duflu> Home yet?
<Trevinho> duflu: â¤ï¸
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Trevinho> duflu: more into tacos now  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/tysdtGkR/IMG_20181123_015810.jpg
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Trevinho
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, buon giorno Trevinho
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> Trevinho, we are not going to have nautilus updated this week, so meanwhile we can merge the obvious fix
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, bien et toi?
<seb128> ca va, c'est vendredi !
<oSoMoN> happy to have the week-end in sight, I need some rest
<seb128> yeah, same here
<Trevinho> seb128: yes fine indeed
<Trevinho> Hi didrocks ð
<willcooke> morning all
<Laney> hey
<willcooke> hi Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, willcooke, happy friday!
<willcooke> flu jab in a couple of hours
<Laney> exciting
<duflu> Hi willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> afternoon duflu
<willcooke> off to the pharmacist for my injection.  bbiab
<willcooke> back
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<duflu> Why am I still here?
<willcooke> I was wondering the same thing
<andyrock> ð
<andyrock> is the free the flu jab in UK?
 * andyrock still has to register to NHS
<Laney> nah only free for some people: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/who-should-have-flu-vaccine/
<willcooke> I paid for my wife's at the same time, but then it turns out she could have got it free because she has an asthma inhaler
<seb128> andyrock, Canonical is paying for it, see the email from this week on the company list, you can expense it
<andyrock> seb128: yeah I know but I was just wondering
<jbicha> yay, free vaccines for everyone
<duflu> seb128, I was wondering if that still applies 6 months opposite :)
<duflu> Also, good night
<seb128> night duflu, have a good w.e!
<andyrock> ð
 * xnox ponders if i'm on irc or not
<Laney> who can say
<doko> a ghost
 * jbicha slaps xnox around a bit with a large trout
<xnox> Laney, ah, well, i guess seb128 just wants to avoid talking about keycodes
<seb128> xnox, hey?
<xnox> seb128, hola =)
<xnox> not sure, if we should hangout, or talk privately.
<seb128> did you write to me earlier? there was nothing on the channel
<seb128> hangout is going to be a bit tricky this afternoon for me
<seb128> I'm in a public place without headphones atm
<xnox> right, so my irc was not working when i did:
<xnox> <xnox> seb128, heya =)
<xnox> <xnox> wanna talk keycodes to me? =)
<xnox> <xnox> andyrock, was 9 GBP for me.
<seb128> right
<seb128> cyphermox, nice, Hans found the cause of the plymouth segfault and put details on https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/plymouth/plymouth/merge_requests/10 :)
<gitbot> plymouth issue (Merge request) 10 in plymouth "If we've already freed the plugin, we can't call to it." [Opened]
<seb128> the debugging from that user on launchpad confirms the issue he found in the code
<seb128> I wonder if /usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf-hooks.d/cryptsetup being missing/not having " FRAMEBUFFER=y" is a before or a feature
<xnox> *sigh*
<seb128> is a bug or feature
<seb128> xnox, you know about that? ;)
<xnox> not really, but it is a pile of heap at the moment. it all used to be better
<seb128> xnox, cyphermox, the config is still there but in a cryptsetup-initramfs binary, I wonder if that user who can reproduce is just missing that one
<cyphermox> worth a check
<cyphermox> but sorry I'm not really completely around today
<seb128> cyphermox, no worry, there is no hurry there. If you feel like having a poke to the patch doing what Hans suggested next week that might give us some upstream karma though :)
<cyphermox> seb128: can you comment on the gitlab and say I'll do the patches?
<seb128> sure
<seb128> thx
<cyphermox> I had my file sync disabled on this laptop for Plumbers, didn't re-enable it yet but now I'm missing my new gitlab credentials :)
<cyphermox> seb128: thanks
<oSoMoN> popey, I need to edit https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/using-chromium-ffmpeg-in-third-party-browser-snaps/6545 to add the latest stable version which I just published, but it looks like the post is locked, can you do some magic to unlock it for me?
<popey> Will try
<popey> oSoMoN: made it a wiki post, can you edit now?
<oSoMoN> popey, yes, now I can
<oSoMoN> thanks
<jbicha> seb128: could you put libpoppler-qt5-1 & libpoppler-qt5-dev back in universe in disco so that excuses doesn't complain about it?
<seb128> jbicha, does it create any problem?
<jbicha> seb128: your new poppler version won't migrate out of -proposed until it's fixed :)
<Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> it's those poppler items listed
<Laney> xnox: can you merge meson please? you are TIL :-)
<seb128> jbicha, it's fine, we need to rebuild the rdepends including libreoffice, so that's not going to be today
<seb128> Laney, the items on that page are the waiting autopkgtests no?
<Laney> it's changed since I linked it
<tjaalton> Laney: there are now two mutter uploads on cosmic queue, the older should be dropped?
<seb128> k
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end all!
<Laney> tjaalton: yes, i said that in release earlier, guess nobody did it
<seb128> well if what you were pointing out is the component mismatch then someone already handled it I guess
<Laney> (looks like someone did the demotions jbicha asked for, that's why it moved on)
<tjaalton> yeah I missed that
<Laney> tjaalton: thanks!
<seb128> seems like people care more about noise on that page that I do :)
<Laney> that noise prevented the tests from running
<seb128> (but annoying that the web interface from the queue doesn't let you move only the new binaries to main, when you select "main" it seems it moves the existing ones as well)
<seb128> Laney, which isn't that important until we know that there is a stack of rdepends that need to be rebuilt including libreoffice
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I still wouldn't call it noise though
<Laney> it was a real issue
<seb128> right, it's sorted out now so all good, we can happily wrap the week :)
<seb128> or at least I'm doing that
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers
<Laney> see you!
<willcooke> I'm calling it a night too, l8r
<jbicha> seb128: ha, we might have been better off with poppler 0.69 like Debian. I think pochu is tired of fixing up the rdepends for poppler every release
<Laney> desktop-icons packaged & UPLOADED (to experimental)
<Laney> happy weekend
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-24
<k_alam> Trevinho: u there ?
<Trevinho> k_alam: hey yes
<k_alam> I have dropped the extra dependency from sharing panel.
<k_alam> I have rebased unity patches for nautilus 3.30, can you please take if is the right approach for 20_add_timestamp_to_operations.patch ? https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches/20_add_timestamp_to_operations.patch
<k_alam> and also for 19_unity_open_location_xid.patch
<k_alam> https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches/19_unity_open_location_xid.patch
<k_alam> other patches are in https://git.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/nautilus/+git/unity-3.30/tree/debian/patches
<k_alam> Trevinho: And then there is this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1795888
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1795888 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "[FTBFS] integression tests are failing due to gicon regression in glib 2.58 (Cosmic)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<k_alam> I tried to fix this in https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/indicator-sound/gicon-regression-fix, but even then plugExternalMic fails. When I install it works ok, but we should fix those anyway.
<PaulePanter> Hi. Using Ubuntu 18.10 with chromium-browser 70.0.3538.77-0, TLSv1.3 enabled sites are only loaded with TLSv1.2.
<PaulePanter> Does a switch need to be enabled?
<PaulePanter> https://calomel.org/ or Cloudflare or Facebook use TLSv1.3 already.
<PaulePanter> â¦ and it works with the shipped Mozilla Firefox browser.
 * PaulePanter notes that ubuntu.com doesnât support TLSv1.3 which is a pitty.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-18
<jibel> morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> hi didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: hey i actually have rustc & cargo updates ready now, is it safe to copy the stuff in rust-updates to rust-next yet?
<mwhudson> (so i can upload the new things to rust-updates)
<mwhudson> oh apart from a segfault on xenial/armhf, grump
<Laney> moin from bluefin!
<didrocks> hey hey Laney's bluefinner! :)
<didrocks> are you at a sprint?
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> nah, I was in London for the weekend after Vancouver
<Laney> went to see a concert last night and didn't fancy getting a super late train home
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> nice! Going well, thanks, how is your jetlag? :)
<Laney> gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
<Laney> did a 12 hour sleep on saturday night
<Laney> was pretty fixed after that
<didrocks> waow, quickly reset to correct timezone!
<Laney> :>
<oSoMoN> mwhudson, yes, copying rustcÂ 1.37Â and cargo 0.38 from rust-updates to rust-next should be fine
<oSoMoN> will you do it, or do you want me to?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers, by the way
<didrocks> hey hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut diddledan
<oSoMoN> argh
<oSoMoN> *didrocks
<Laney> hey oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: er could you? don't really mind though
<oSoMoN> mwhudson, sure, I'll do that now
<oSoMoN> mwhudson, note that IÂ filed bug #1852982 to track the next rustc/cargo update, but the requirement isn't live yet in firefox, so not urgent right now
<ubot5> bug 1852982 in rustc (Ubuntu) "rustc 1.38 and cargo 0.39 required by firefox 72" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852982
<mwhudson> oSoMoN: do we really have to build firefox/xenial/armhf? :)
<oSoMoN> IÂ wish we didn'tâ¦
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey seb128
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> good journey back?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, no delay, nice plane, not to complain. Just leaving at 3pm was too early to sleep, but I did watch some movies and played some games so was ok ;)
<seb128> Laney, how was yours?
<seb128> Laney, you are in the office today?
<Laney> late
<Laney> yep, sure am
 * Laney has biscuits
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<Trevinho> uff, late day but got to the coworking finally.
<Laney> hey ricotz hey Trevinho
<Laney> working spanish hours eh
<Trevinho> Laney: indeed, everything here starts late, you know :-D. Imagine that we went at restaruants at 10 and we're the first ones, then people arrives around 10.30-11 (pm)
<marcustomlinson> g'day desktoppers
<Trevinho> and D. has classes until 9pm so... All my best timezone :)
<ricotz> Laney, Trevinho, marcustomlinson, hey
<marcustomlinson> hey ricotz
<Trevinho> hi ricotz
<Trevinho> and marcustomlinson
<Laney> yo marcustomlinson
<Laney> classes until 9pm wtf
<seb128> hey ricotz, Trevinho, marcustomlinson, how are you? had a good w.e?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: not really unfortunately, got sick :(
<marcustomlinson> getting better though, how you?
<seb128> :(
<seb128> I'm good
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz, marcustomlinson
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, indeed.... You? had time to recover from travelling?
<seb128> Trevinho, a bit, I did skip saturday night basically since the plane was leaving on 3pm and that was too early for me to feel sleepy. I had a normal/good night yesterday though (23h to 9h) so I'm ok, just lack some hours of sleep
<ricotz> oSoMoN, seb128, hi
<Laney> seb128: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=945015 fyi
<ubot5> Debian bug 945015 in src:kgb-bot "only-branch only takes exact branch names" [Normal,Open]
<dps> good morning everyone
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, did you follow https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1594686 ?
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1594686 in XPCOM "Local m-c build on Linux crashes on startup when compiled with clang-6" [Normal,New]
<ricotz> oSoMoN, the best option to fix this would be to backport llvm-8 to xenial -- https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/mozilla/+packages
<oSoMoN> ricotz, IÂ did follow, and there's also https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1581121 that would benefit from this solution
<ubot5> Error: Error getting Mozilla bug #1581121: NotPermitted
<oSoMoN> ah, it's a private bug
<oSoMoN> essentially another crasher on i386 on xenial
<oSoMoN> ricotz, thanks for looking into this, are you investigating the build failures on armhf, ppc64el and s390x ?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ah interesting, it would be great you could try to fix the llvm-8 failures.
<seb128> Laney, thx for the bot wishlist, reminds me we said we would look at the acl-by-branch on salsa but then we forgot
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> o/
<kenvandine> good morning
<hellsworth> hey kenvandine how was vancouver?
<hellsworth> from martin's email sounds like it was good
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> hey kenvandine
<hellsworth> hi marcustomlinson - hope life is well for you :)
<marcustomlinson> mostly yeah :) thanks hellsworth. Yourself?
<hellsworth> yep i'm good. a little sick but i got back yesterday from barcelona and slept great :)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: it's that time of the year (re: getting sick)
<marcustomlinson> I hear/saw you did a great job at LAS :)
<Laney> seb128: yeah, remembered about it
<Laney> pretty sure my laptop just failed to suspend
<marcustomlinson> attach more helium balloons
<Laney> ho
<Laney> ho ho
<marcustomlinson> CLOSED, NOTABUG
<Laney> wonder where we got this guy from ð
<oSoMoN> inhaling too much helium will do that?
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WpDJHKkPQW/
<Laney> that's the most suspicious thing
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: thanks. i tried to do a good job of representing canonical :)
<oSoMoN> Laney, with LAS IÂ haven't had a chance to poke further at the librsvg build failure on ppc64el, but there's a new major version of rustc in the archive, could you trigger a rebuild for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librsvg/2.44.15-1/+build/17967714 ?
<Laney> okey dokey
<Laney> I'll be swap daying tomorrow but it would be nice if someone took on the task of dishing out items in https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> it seems like waiting politely for people to volunteer themselves didn't work
<seb128> Laney, I think can do that :)
<Laney> except oSoMoN #greatworker #promotionincoming
 * Laney high fives seb128 
<seb128> :-)
 * seb128 high fives back
 * didrocks would like to volunteer people on helping fixing zfs ;)
<oSoMoN> the librsvg failure is an actual build failure now, not a unit test failure
<oSoMoN> not sure that counts as progressâ¦
<Laney> /o\
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho: could you please add a comment here: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128803
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 128803 in Calc "Copy / pasting text in Calc sometimes pastes as an image" [Normal,New]
<Trevinho> marcustomlinson: yeah, I wanted to elaborate more once I had a patch for mutter, which I have, but I want to check few things
<Trevinho> since per sÃ© both LO and mutter seems to be somewhat wrong
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho: yeah complex. I appreciate the help, thanks!
<seb128> Trevinho, marcustomlinson, did you see the mp from Carlos to make the clipboard prefer text over image?
<seb128> Trevinho, marcustomlinson, https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/939
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 939 in mutter "Favor text over images in clipboard manager" [Opened]
<Trevinho> seb128: I saw that and I had something like this in mind but I preferred another way of fixing this
<Trevinho> also because that one is creating another kind of problems imho
<seb128> Trevinho, k, I just wanted to make sure you didn't duplicate work. Maybe you should let Carlos know on that mp if you don't like his solution?
<Trevinho> yeah I wrote a small coment for now, but I've to go now so... a bit in rush
<seb128> Trevinho, thx, enjoy your evening!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-19
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks et oSoMoN
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks & jibel
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN didrocks jibel Wimpress and seb128
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<seb128> didrocks, you were mentioning nautilus/mtp problems?
<didrocks> so, nautilus has a 50% of chance hanging for me when doing copy over mtp
<marcustomlinson> seb128: meh still recovering, you?
<didrocks> I never got any issue when cp on a terminal
<seb128> like locking the whole nautilus?
<seb128> or just the copy hanging?
<didrocks> yeah, and then, other apps are responsive
<didrocks> but not nautilus
<didrocks> can't even move it
<didrocks> (move the window)
<didrocks> or have any other nautilus windows acting
<didrocks> I don't have a stacktrace for it though reported it seems
<seb128> looks a bit like bug ##1845302)
<seb128> bug #1845302
<ubot5> bug 1845302 in mutter (Ubuntu Eoan) "cannot click on others opened applications while the "application not responding" dialog is opened" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845302
<didrocks> I don't even have the application not responsding dialog
<seb128> would still be useful to see if the proposed version helps with that pb
<seb128> even if your segfault was a different one
<didrocks> well, I can see it when killing the shell, so maybe it's opening on the brackground?
<didrocks> yeah, let me file some bugs and I'll update later
<didrocks> though
<didrocks> when it's stuck
<didrocks> I can still click on the terminal for instance
<didrocks> and type there
<didrocks> so, it's not a full X11 hang?
<didrocks> as I can change focus and type
<seb128> weird one
<seb128> also I wish I was able to reproduce the mtp one
<seb128> I wonder if that's the same as bug #1792085 , it's a frequent complain from some users since bionic but I never could reproduce
<ubot5> bug 1792085 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "MTP not working/very slow on Bionic" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792085
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress, marcustomlinson, seb128
<didrocks> seb128: I don't really know if it started due to some issues on eoan, OR if recent phone is not as good on the mtp side and trigger thisâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: a little bit terse, but opened as bug #1853112
<ubot5> bug 1853112 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Applications are closed when killing the Shell (like on a hang)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1853112
<seb128> didrocks, thx
<seb128> @mtp, yeah, I doubt the phone does mtp wrong, but maybe it does it a slightly different way that isn't handled well by libmtp or something
<seb128> hard to tell without proper debugging :/
<didrocks> could be, I'm switching to full terminal for some days
<seb128> but we can't debug all the issues today :)
<didrocks> and will see if I get the same issues
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> yeah, it's the one which triggered the 3 of them
<didrocks> quite annoying to copy podcast on the phone for a run :)
<jibel> I enabled automated tests of Focal and first builds have been promoted to current
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary reminder :-)
<Trevinho>  /reconnect
<didrocks> -- disconnected
<didrocks> -- connected
<Trevinho> :)
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> hey hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi yall :)
<hellsworth> i woke up bright eyed and ready to do all the things at 5am. this is one of the nice things about going to europe for a conference :)
<Wimpress> Hi hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi there
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi Olivier!
<seb128> _o/
<hellsworth> :)
<seb128> Wimpress, meeting? ;)
<didrocks> hey
<Wimpress> seb128: Can you drive the IRC bot please?
<seb128> Wimpress, sure, can do
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov 19 14:34:02 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), hellsworth, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine (out iirc?), laney (out), marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<hellsworth> o/
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<marcustomlinson> \o
<jibel> \o
<Trevinho> o/
<seb128> Wimpress, you handle those or do you want me to just drive while you get used to the way we usually roll?
<Wimpress> Ken is visiting a customer.
<Wimpress> seb128: Please run this one, I making note :-)
<seb128> k, what I though, but since we didn't get that "start of week" email :p
<seb128> Wimpress,
<seb128> k
<seb128> so bionic bugs!
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop section empty
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> (looking for unassigned bugs which aren't fix commited)
<seb128> bug #1836979
<ubot5> bug 1836979 in mesa (Ubuntu) "Kodi crashes with ânouveau_vp3_video_buffer_create: Assertion `templat->interlaced' failedâ" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1836979
<seb128> that's incomplete so we can skip until it gets enough info
<seb128> bug #1852315
<ubot5> bug 1852315 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-435 (Ubuntu Eoan) "CVEâ2019â5696 5697 5698" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852315
<seb128> seems like that one makes sense to track and should be assigned to tseliot_ / security
<seb128> tseliot_, you handle it? can you assign the different lines as appropriate?
<seb128> and that's it for bionic
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> desktop section empty
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> nothing unassigned
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1850696
<ubot5> bug 1850696 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Regression: cannot close notifications" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850696
<seb128> L_aney nominated it
<seb128> I do agree it's annoying, I don't know if I consider it annoy enough to be rls tracked though
<seb128> what do others think?
<hellsworth> Laney's rational makes sense to me
<hellsworth> a regression is bad
<Wimpress> I agree.
<Wimpress> If we don't track it in ee we may lose it for ff.
<oSoMoN> +1
<seb128> k, I'm overuled, fine :)
 * Trevinho gets it then...
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry man!
<seb128> Daniel is not around atm, we need to get you more gnome-shell hackers to help in the team
 * Trevinho waits for some other upstream to arrive :-D
<seb128> next
<seb128> bug #1852183
<ubot5> bug 1852183 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[X11] copy/paste (clipboard) is broken in Ubuntu 19.10" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1852183
<seb128> poor Trevinho
<seb128> I consider that one more problematic than the notifications which are only cosmetic
<marcustomlinson> right so this is upstream in both mutter and libreoffice it seems
<seb128> so if we gave +1 to the previous one I vote +1 for that one
<seb128> marcustomlinson, did you test if the mutter mp to prefer the text type was enough to fix the issue in libreoffice?
<Trevinho> seb128: is not
<marcustomlinson> seb128: I have not
<Trevinho> I mean, well. for LO it could be enough in some scenarios
<Wimpress> Yep, this one needs rls tracking.
<Trevinho> but....
<Trevinho> LO is also broken
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho said that was not the way to go though
<seb128> k, anyway, we shouldn' t discuss technically details
<seb128> +1 for nomination
<Trevinho> I'+1
<oSoMoN> +1 as well
<seb128> Trevinho, gets the shell side, marcustomlinson the libreoffice one
<marcustomlinson> yeah
<seb128> Trevinho, marcustomlinson, k?
<seb128> thx
<seb128> done
<Trevinho> k
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> same nvidia one we talked about earlier
<seb128> the other ones are either owned or incomplete or fix commited
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-incoming
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: rls-ff-incoming
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the first one is assigned I just forgot to untag, doing that now
<seb128> the other 2 we just discussed
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> that's in shape
<seb128> </bug>
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> L_aney asked me to take care of that one since
<seb128> - he's off today
<seb128> - asking for volunteer 2 weeks ago didn't get us much tractions
<seb128> sooo
<hellsworth> i'll volunteer for harfbuzz and pango
<seb128> we have some easy MIRs (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess) to file from that list
<hellsworth> i haven't done this before so i don't really know what i'm signed up for so i'll ask for hand holding :)
<oSoMoN> I haven't sorted out the librsvg one due to lack of time but I'll look into it this week
<seb128> I would suggest that as part of sharing the knownledge on how to do MIR, we would ask people who never filed on to volunteer maybe?
<seb128> I'm fine helping/working with you to explain the process and get the bugs filed
<hellsworth> yep i volunteer
<seb128> thx hellsworth!
<seb128> need a second one
<didrocks> I'm happy to tutor hellsworth on filing a MIR (and do the review at the same time then)
<hellsworth> i picked two random ones though
<seb128> marcustomlinson, did you ever do one?
<marcustomlinson> yes but I'll do another
<seb128> k, thanks
<hellsworth> sweet! didrocks i'll ping you afterwords on how to get started
<didrocks> same for marcustomlinson :)
<didrocks> that way, we tackle the reviewing side of MIR-team
<seb128> hellsworth, didrocks, bug #1851395
<ubot5> bug 1851395 in libmail-authenticationresults-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmail-authenticationresults-perl, dependency of libmaildekim-perl" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851395
<seb128> hellsworth, that's yours then
<hellsworth> okey dokey
<seb128> thx
<seb128> hellsworth, I will help you for harfbuzz/pango, let's have a look together when you want
<hellsworth> perfect sounds good
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I though we had a second MIR, but the first in the list might go away by demoting emacs components
<seb128> if others want to volunteer for something please let me know in /query | /msg
<seb128> I will add trello cards and we will find assignees otherwise
<seb128> just as a FYI I think fixing issue for "un-owned" components should be a shared effort and asking for volunteers doesn't work great from past cycles experience
<seb128> so I'm going to propose we just start doing equal assingement to team members for those items
<seb128> but that doesn't need to be discussed/sorted out here&today
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-19 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> ok, any other topic?
<seb128> one from me, I will start updating the trello for new cycles
<didrocks> nothing for me
<seb128> adding cards for the work I know about, in one column sorted by importance/priority
<seb128> we said in Paris we would try that, so let's see how it goes
<Wimpress> seb128: We can work on that together a little later if you lie?
<Wimpress> *like
<seb128> if you have work you plan to do feel free to card it as well
<seb128> Wimpress, sure, let's chat about it after the meeting
<seb128> any other topic?
<Wimpress> Not right now.
<seb128> k, let's wrap then
<seb128> thanks team!
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov 19 14:58:32 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-11-19-14.34.moin.txt
<hellsworth> thank you!
<Wimpress> Thanks seb128
<oSoMoN> thanks
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: since you helped me take a look at cherrytree, i wonder if you have any thoughts on why theming isn't working: https://github.com/hellsworth/cherrytree
<hellsworth> (the add-snap branch)
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, I'm too busy to have a look right now, but I'll see if IÂ can later today
<hellsworth> ah ok no problem. if you can't get to it at all that's ok and I'll bug kenvandine :)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: how many snaps have you managed to get working with the gnome-3-34 extension so far?
<marcustomlinson> I mean theming working any all
<marcustomlinson> *and
<hellsworth> all but cherrytree. i haven't had any themeing issues
<hellsworth> which makes troubleshooting hard because all of my examples dont' do anything special to make themeing work
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/2fqq4Jg69R/
<marcustomlinson> you only see this ^ on first launch though. you can `rm -rf ~/snap/cherrytree` to simulate again
<hellsworth> but snaps working with the gnome-3-34 extension are: evince, calculator, simple-scan
<marcustomlinson> I fear there's some clashing going on between gtk2 and gtk3 here
<marcustomlinson> like the application is expecting gtk2 symbols and gtk3 is being provided
<hellsworth> ah i should have looked more closely at my build output
<hellsworth> i could add gtk2 stuff - and no extension - like gimp/glimpse does and see if that looks nicer
<marcustomlinson> quite possible yeah
<hellsworth> but the cherrytree deb looks nice and seems to use gtk3
<hellsworth> so it shouldn't need gtk2
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: where do you see that it uses gtk3?
<hellsworth> just eyeballing it
<hellsworth> i pasted a screenshot in telegram
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: I'm almost certain the problem is these: python-gtk2, python-gtksourceview2
<hellsworth> hmm
<hellsworth> can python2.7 not use gtk3?
<hellsworth> i had assumed this was true but maybe not
<hellsworth> so yeah i'll try with gimp/glimpse method then
<marcustomlinson> can but you'll have some duplicated libs in the snap and platform
<hellsworth> yeah makes sense
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: it may work just to stage those two packages in gnome-3-34-1804
<marcustomlinson> but it's a big _may_
<hellsworth> well maybe but that would be a pretty heavy-handed solution, no?
<marcustomlinson> if it's what's needed in the platform to support python gtk apps then I'd say necessary
<hellsworth> i don't think we should accommodate gtk2 apps with the gnome-3-34 extension though. the apps should move to gtk3. heck, they should be getting ready for gtk4
<hellsworth> i mean using the extension is an alternative method of building snaps. they don't have to use it
<marcustomlinson> oh sorry
<hellsworth> actually, i wonder what is in freedesktop-sdk
<marcustomlinson> I read python2-gtk not python-gtk2
<marcustomlinson> right, back to the gtk2 problem then
<hellsworth> :)
<hellsworth> also i think python2.7 is soon to be deprecated
<hellsworth> i only wanted to snap cherrytree because i can't live without it :)
<hellsworth> so really we shouldn't go out of our way with the extension to support python2.7 or gtk2
<marcustomlinson> right, I think we're simply facing a gtk2 app (square shape) trying to use a gtk3 runtime (circle hole)
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: thanks for pointing out that it's a gtk2 app so i have something else to try :)
<marcustomlinson> it only runs because of the packages you staged
<hellsworth> yep
<hellsworth> i didn't put two and two together
<marcustomlinson> no, you put two and three together
<marcustomlinson> ba dum tss!
<hellsworth> haha yes good one. i am actually laughing over here :)
<seb128> marcustomlinson, turns out libmail-authenticationresults-perl has a depends on another perl component which is currently in universe, so we get to do another one for libscalar-list-utils-perl
<seb128> marcustomlinson, can you handle that one?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, you can use the one hellsworth just did as an example, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmail-dkim-perl/+bug/1853175
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1853175 in libmail-dkim-perl (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libmail-authenticationresults-perl" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> (not for today, no hurry)
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: seb128 i'd like to open that MIR too since it is a cascading issue from the libmail-authenticationresults-perl depends issue.
<seb128> hellsworth, sorry I should have asked you first, that sounds good to me!
<seb128> marcustomlinson, unping, you get to wait until the next one, lucky you ;)
<hellsworth> fyi i'm going to do it later (maybe tomorrow) though since i want to keep on what i'm doing with troubleshooting a snapcraft extension issue
<seb128> hellsworth, no hurry, those packages are not blocking any important work and MIR team usually takes some time to do reviews anyway
<seb128> so tomorrow/later in the week is fine
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-20
<jibel> morning everyone
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks & oSoMoN
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> meh don't know how to use bzr anymore :/
<didrocks> heh, using git too much :)
<didrocks> jibel: when you got a sec: https://github.com/ubuntu/zsys/pull/26
<gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 26 in zsys "Fix many ineffectual assignments and typos" [Open]
<oSoMoN> salut jibel et didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<jibel> didrocks, merged
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<seb128> salut les frenchies :-)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien, entrain d'essayer de finir les formations :-/
<marcustomlinson> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<oSoMoN> feeling good, you?
<marcustomlinson> feeling better thanks
<seb128> I'm good thx
<seb128> brb, changing location
<seb128> oSoMoN, just as a FYI, that librsvg build issue with rustcc 1.38 should be fixed by https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/librsvg/commit/de26c4d8
<seb128> but it requires an update of the cssparser vendor copy included and I'm unsure how to properly do that
<seb128> I downloaded a newer version, diffed the dir and added as a patch for testing but that fails because a .cargo-checksum is missing
<hellsworth> good morning folks
<oSoMoN> seb128, thanks, I'll take care of it
<seb128> hey Heather! how are you today?
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth!
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx,  I'm not saying that it will fix the ppc64el issue though but let's see
<ijohnson> hi folks, I'm investigating slow startup performance in gnome snaps like gnome-calculator and I'm wondering what the purpose of the /usr/bin/gjs file being linked from the gnome-3-28-1804 content snap?
<hellsworth> hmm good question, let me go take a look at the content snap
<ijohnson> Specifically, I'm wondering:
<ijohnson> 1. can this file instead be located at /snap/gnome-calculator/current/usr/bin/gjs instead of /usr/bin/gjs?
<ijohnson> 2. that file in gnome 3.28 1804 content snap is a symlink to gjs-console, will it always be a symlink like that or could gjs point to something else like gjs-console2 ?
<ijohnson> thanks hellsworth
<hellsworth> where do you find gjs being linked? i mean where do you see this /usr/bin/gjs?
<ijohnson> hellsworth: it's in the gnome-3-28-1804 content snap at /snap/gnome-3-28-1804/current/usr/bin/gjs
<ijohnson> err that's the source
<ijohnson> it's being used in a layout in the gnome-calculator snap like this:
<ijohnson> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ZfgDkUNp/
<ijohnson> what that layout amounts to in the snap is that a symlink shows up at /usr/bin/gjs which points to `$SNAP/gnome-platform/usr/bin/gjs`
<ijohnson> (also sorry I had a typo in that snippet I pasted above, I updated it
<hellsworth> can you point me to the snapcraft yaml you're looking at? If I look at the gnome-calculator snapcraft in master and then do `snapcraft expand-extensions` there is no gjs mentioned: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-calculator/blob/master/snap/snapcraft.yaml
<hellsworth> so i'm wondering how gjs got in there
<sarnold> ijohnson: this is wild-guess territory as I don't know much about any of these tools -- my guess is this is to allow all the gnome snaps to share the same javascript interpreter, so that you don't have to have a dozen different JS interpreters loaded at once, but can share the memory for these processes (SHR column in top)
<hellsworth> hmm that would make sense
<ijohnson> sarnold: yes that makes sense, my question is more about why it needs to be mounted at /usr/bin/gjs and not at $SNAP/usr/bin/gjs or even just at $SNAP/gnome-platform/usr/bin/gjs
<ijohnson> hellsworth: I just ran `snap download gnome-calculator` and am looking at the file `meta/snap.yaml` from the snap
<ijohnson> unsquashed with `unsquashfs gnome-calculator_544.snap`
<sarnold> ijohnson: hmm. compounding my guesses at this point, in case something within the application tries to use the interpreter in a funny fashion? maybe libraries to spawn different things would call gjs directly through its well-known-location?
<ijohnson> sarnold: yeah that is usually why folks use layouts, but it's unfortunate here because this layout leads to 500-1000ms of snap-update-ns setting up various mounts
<ijohnson> hellsworth: indeed the snapcraft.yaml at that gitlab repo looks much different from what's on stabl in gnome-calculator indeed
<ijohnson> hellsworth: looks like gnome-calculator edge has the same as stable basically
<sarnold> ijohnson: ouch :( that's really painful for an interactive app.
<sarnold> not a big deal for IOT usecases, but .. ouch.
<ijohnson> sarnold: yes, hence why I'm looking into it :-|
<sarnold> ijohnson: maybe snapd could pre-create all the namespaces when snaps are installed or when snapd is started, and reuse those namespaces for execution?
<ijohnson> the namespaces do get re-used for subsequent launches, but for the first launch either right after install or first launch after boot
<ijohnson> for those cases we have to create these mounts
<hellsworth> well gjs is placed there because of this commit: https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/commit/55bfb2dfcf5f604ee2ebbf3970a4fd846b021771
<hellsworth> i don't know why this was added tbh though
<ijohnson> hellsworth: thanks for that pointer, this at least gives me a test case I can look at for why the gjs binary is needed at all, because gnome-calculator doesn't seem to need it at all
<marcustomlinson> nice find hellsworth
<marcustomlinson> makes sense to me now why this doesn't make sense to me now :P
<hellsworth> lol
<sarnold> lol
 * ijohnson be back in a bit
<hellsworth> https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/commit/55bfb2dfcf5f604ee2ebbf3970a4fd846b021771#r36058007
<hellsworth> maybe the commiter can comment on why gjs was added. it looks very deliberate so there must have been some strong reason
<hellsworth> and that reason can be weighed with the 500-1000ms expense
<kenvandine> gnome-characters could use it
<kenvandine> But many other gjs apps
<kenvandine> It's for convenience
<kenvandine> Most gjs hard code the interpretor path for gjs
<kenvandine> So all gjs have to be patched without the layout
<kenvandine> Not just using the content snap
<kenvandine> Even trying to bundle gjs, they still needed patching
<kenvandine> ijohnson: ^^
<ijohnson> kenvandine: hmm that's unfortunate, is this a script type situation like with python paths in the shebang where snapcraft could autonatically fix the location of gjs to somewhere else or even better just to search on $PATH?
<fidencio> people, we'd like to update the GNOME Boxes' recommended downloads so it shows the latest ubuntu release
<fidencio> however, in order to so, I really would need a review on https://gitlab.com/libosinfo/osinfo-db/merge_requests/54
<gitbot> libosinfo issue (Merge request) 54 in osinfo-db "ubuntu: Add 19.10 entry" [Opened]
<fidencio> would be possible to have someone from canonical to take a look at that and tell me that I'm not missing something?
<hellsworth> jbicha: ^^
<hellsworth> and didrocks isn't online atm
<fidencio> hellsworth: I've marked them on the MR when I opened it (a few weeks ago)
<hellsworth> i know but maybe they forgot so maybe it's time to ping them again :)
<fidencio> hellsworth: let's hope they see it (if not, I'll ping Didier Tomorrow on our timezone)
<hellsworth> good plan
<fidencio> hellsworth: thanks for the help!
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: i finally got around to testing cherrytree with gtk2 stuff like gimp has and it doesn't look any different than it did when i was using the gnome extension
<hellsworth> https://github.com/hellsworth/cherrytree/tree/add-snap
<hellsworth> i really just don't know why the snap package looks different from the deb
<hellsworth> any thoughts you have are welcome :)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: have you tried deleting ~/snap/cherrytree and re running
<hellsworth> hmm no
<hellsworth> i should try that :)
<hellsworth> yeah even that didn't change things
<marcustomlinson> Interesting, Iâm not at a computer right now, I can take a look tomorrow
<hellsworth> no rush. i could use your expertise when you have time :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-21
<jibel> hi all
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN !
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<fidencio> didrocks: morning! heya, may I bother you for a review on https://gitlab.com/libosinfo/osinfo-db/merge_requests/54 ?
<gitbot> libosinfo issue (Merge request) 54 in osinfo-db "ubuntu: Add 19.10 entry" [Opened]
<fidencio> didrocks: we'd like to upate gnome-boxes to have latest ubuntu as part of the recommended downloads
<fidencio> didrocks: but we need this one merged as the first thing for hat
<fidencio> *for that
<didrocks> fidencio: oh sure! Will have a look this morning
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va
<fidencio> didrocks: thanks!
<seb128> jibel, did you end up testing the preseeding install to see if you were able to reproduce the issue?
<jibel> no, not yet
<Laney> moinsssssss
<seb128> hey Laney, wb! had a nice 2 days off? how is the jetlag?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> was mostly relaxing around the house
<Laney> jetlag is ok but I didn't sleep great last night for some reason, so tired today anyway
<Laney> :S
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> I'm good, I did ajust back to the tz without issue but lack a bit of sleep
<seb128> and it's freeze and the kid got a cold, which i've a feeling I'm getting now as well :-/
<fidencio> didrocks: minimum requirement for disk is still 5GB?
<Laney> :<
 * seb128 is trying to unblock some of the proposed things
<seb128> quite some transitions/backlog there
<fidencio> didrocks: nevermind, just checked https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<fidencio> I'll bump the recommended resources then
<Laney> seb128: looks like these could be done btw: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt ?
<seb128> Laney, doing
<Laney> \o/
<didrocks> fidencio: thanks :)
<Laney> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, maybe you can help me understanding proposed migration better, that's never clear to me those cases
<seb128> Laney, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#libixion
<seb128> libixion-0.14-0 missing is normal since the package is renamed
<seb128> what's the proper way to hint/resolve that?
<seb128> we can't delete the current version from the release pocket since that would break things in the archive until the proposed version does migrate (which could take a while depending on what other things blocks it)
<Wimpress> Morning  o/
<seb128> also I'm wondering why it lists python3-ixion
<seb128>  python3-ixion | 0.14.1-4 | focal/universe          | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, s390x
<seb128>  python3-ixion | 0.15.0-3 | focal-proposed/universe | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, s390x
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you today?
<Laney> seb128: which line in excuses are you talking about?
<Laney> hi Wimpress
<seb128> Laney, #libxion as mentioned in the url :)
<Laney> that doesn't say anything about NBS here
<seb128> shrug, firefox struggle on that page, it won't like me select/copy
<seb128> Laney, k, looks like the content changed, it was probably just not built yet
<seb128> sorry for the noise
<Laney> ahhh ok
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<seb128> I refreshed and those lines are gone now, makes more sense
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson
<Laney> yo marcustomlinson
<seb128> bah, laptop battery blinking now
<seb128> time to go back to my desk
<seb128> brb
<Laney> oSoMoN: i forgot if I pinged you about firefox/armhf autopkgtests already
<oSoMoN> Laney, if you did IÂ don't remember it
<oSoMoN> let me check
<Laney> the html5test started timing out
<Laney> would be good if you could, thanks!
<GunnarHj> Hey Laney, the glib2.0 SRU has made it to eoan-proposed at last. Considering that you seem to be struggling with glib2.0 in focal, I just wanted to check if version 2.62.2-2~ubuntu19.10.1 is it for the SRU before doing the verification.
<Laney> why do I seem to be struggling?
<Laney> feel free to do the verification, yeah
<GunnarHj> Laney: Well, I noticed updates in -proposed without anything has migrated to -release yet. Maybe that's normal. Ok, will verify.
<Laney> It needed work, but that's normal enough :-)
<GunnarHj> Ack.
<seb128> hellsworth, hey, so pango tests worked on a retry, http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/p/pango1.0/focal/amd64 , glib migrated, that lower the importance of that card/task for now I would say so feel free to lower prioritize, we will have a better idea over time if the test is really flacky and or if that was a one time thing (still a bug but that would make it low importance)
<Laney> night, see you monday!
<hellsworth> seb128: thanks for the tip about pango!
<hellsworth> are code blocks a thing in launchpad?
<hellsworth> i'd like to make my comment look nice and code blocks would help if it's a thing
<sarnold> no :(
<sarnold> at least the emails look good
<sarnold> but the web version gets pretty unreadable pretty quick
<hellsworth> darn, i was afraid of that
<hellsworth> thanks sarnold !
<sarnold> honestly given what launchpad *does* I'm surprised it's not the other way around -- all "code-blocks" except for occasional "I'd like to write some prose" blocks :)
<hellsworth> haha good point
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-22
<dps> man, im liking the feel of the 20.04 desktop rn
<dps> ik its just dailies, but still. if this is any hint at what we have to look forward to in the actual stable release, then i think the talk where people are saying stuff like "Ubuntu doesnt care about its desktop users  anymore" has no merit whatsoever
<dps> as a new user to the Linux world (almost a year now and ive used many distros), this is what kind of a fresh desktop i want, and i believe that this is the desktop that (if pushed out into the open enough and marketing was strategically done) could bring in a whole new wave of users
<dps> at any rate, thanks to the desktop devs. ill be sending my thanks soon, actually
<dps> ;)
<jamesh> robert_ancell: hi.  I was having a discussion about theme snap installation last night, and how it will probably require some background service in the desktop session to monitor changes
<jamesh> robert_ancell: there was some questions about where to host the code for such a daemon since it will probably have to be written in C, and one option proposed was to ship it with snapd-glib.  Do you have any thoughts on that?
<robert_ancell> jamesh, I would think it would make sense for it to be a separate project, but I'd have to look at more details on the service.
<jamesh> robert_ancell: it would be a background service that monitors GtkSettings to watch GTK, icon, and sound theme names, and trigger installation of a snap if there are no installed snaps providing that theme, probably via snapd-glib
<robert_ancell> Yeah, that definitely sounds like it should be a separate project. Why would it be part of snapd-glib?
<jamesh> there was some concern about hosting it in the snapd repo itself due to the extra build dependencies, and that if it uses snapd-glib it might cause a dependency loop (even if just for testing)
<jamesh> I guess the suggestion for snapd-glib was to make it easier to get the thing rolled out
<robert_ancell> That's what it sounded like :)
<robert_ancell> It sounds like a 'snap-desktop-support' project to me.
<robert_ancell> That would contains any services that a desktop might require.
<jamesh> that's probably a good idea.
<jamesh> I think there was agreement that this can't easily be written in Go, and specifically can't easily be a subcommand of /usr/bin/snap
<robert_ancell> jamesh, does it use dbus?
<jamesh> robert_ancell: it would be using libgtk
<robert_ancell> oh, yeah, that would be a pain in go.
<jamesh> gtk_settings_get_default() and then get properties on that GtkSettings object plus notification of changes
<jamesh> we want the current theme as GTK understands it, which means doing XSETTINGS on X11, dconf on Wayland, etc
<jamesh> and Wimpress pointed out that e.g. Mate uses different gsettings keys to store the user's preferred themes
<jamesh> so we can't ignore XSETTINGS
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> hi didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<fidencio> Search Results
<fidencio> Web results
<fidencio> arrrgh, middle button click :-/
<fidencio> but, anyways, while still here ...
<fidencio> Ã§a va didrocks, jibel ...
<didrocks> good morning fidencio :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> and happy Friday!
<didrocks> happy Friday oSoMoN :)
<didrocks> jibel: and tests pass, easy one to merge if you may: https://github.com/ubuntu/zsys/pull/29 :)
<gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 29 in zsys "Remove dead code in i18n which lower coverage" [Open]
<jibel> didrocks, merged
<didrocks> thx!
<jibel> Hi fidencio
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<Wimpress> FYI, I'm out of the office today. Have a good weekend and see you all next week :-)
<jibel> Wimpress, hi and bye, enjoy your week end :)
<didrocks> hey Wimpress :) see you next week!
<dupondje> oSoMoN: why is Thunderbird still hanging in proposed? :)
<dupondje> Seems like verified already
<fidencio> didrocks: I know it would only bring more workload to your back, but ... I'd like to have you as part of libosinfo maintainers, specifically taking care of ubuntu stuff
<fidencio> didrocks: the idea (which is still in a quite early stage) would be to have people involved with the distro applying/reviewing the patches without having to wait for me to come back from vacation / other stuff to review / apply patches
<fidencio> didrocks: does that make sense? or is that something not desired in your opinion?
<didrocks> fidencio: sure, as long as it's about watching/updating xml files for the ubuntu area, I think that's not that much additional work and I would be able to handle it.
<fidencio> didrocks: yeah, it'd be for ubuntu *only*
<fidencio> didrocks: I do believe that by taking such move and starting with you (from the really big distros) will make other distro maintainers okay to jump in and take care of their side as well (thinking mainly about opensuse here, for instance)
<fidencio> didrocks: wjt, from endless, is already doing such for endlessos
<fidencio> didrocks: he even wrote a script to entirely automate the addition of files
<didrocks> fidencio: yeah, that makes sense that every distro takes their own part in this. I hope as well that it will help others to get motivated
<didrocks> I would love to see that script if we can tweak it for ubuntu
<fidencio> didrocks: https://gitlab.com/libosinfo/osinfo-db/blob/master/scripts/updates/endlessos.py
<didrocks> thx! :)
<fidencio> didrocks: thank you. And I really like how easy is to work with your guys! :-)
<didrocks> fidencio: no worry! Thanks for reaching out :) I'll probably update the script/prepare for the LTS in January
<didrocks> (end of year, tight deadlines I want to achieve before)
<oSoMoN> good morning didrocks, Wimpress, jibel
<oSoMoN> dupondje, it needs to be published by the security team, I'm guessing this should happen soon
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<didrocks> (well, hey again)
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks (twice is better than none :))
<didrocks> heh, indeed!
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> hey marcustomlinson
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> hi oSoMoN, didrocks
<tjaalton> please don't mark sru bugs 'fix committed', that's reserved for the sru tools to set
<tjaalton> 'in progress' seems better?
<hellsworth> good late morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hey marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> sorry I never got around to your cherrytree snap
<hellsworth> no problem
<hellsworth> it's super not urgent :)
<hellsworth> and i can take a deeper look too, once i have time
<marcustomlinson> it's on my todo - just keeps getting bumped :)
<hellsworth> i've been hunting down a bug in snapcraft, found another bug and fixed it, and then had a solution dream last night
<hellsworth> so maybe i'll finish my thing and get to look at cherrytree today :)
<hellsworth> also it's great when solutions come in dreams :)
<marcustomlinson> haha, indeed
<hellsworth> and then i shoveled snow today
<hellsworth> i'm quite proud of myself :)
<hellsworth> and sore :)
<hellsworth> lol ok time to do all the things!!
<marcustomlinson> though solution dreams are not usually so refreshing
<marcustomlinson> usually feel like crap the morning after from my brain being on overdrive
<hellsworth> well yes that is where coffee can help make up though
<marcustomlinson> hmm, that could be my problem. my wife switched the coffee for decaf
<hellsworth> taht dream was in the night and then i got up at 5 to feed the baby and slept another 2 hours so i did get some good sleep
<hellsworth> omg that's not right
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi oSoMoN !
<hellsworth> i'm having some friends over this evening where we're going to sample the beer you gave me (and some cured meats i brought back)
<hellsworth> so cheers :)
<oSoMoN> cheers!
<hellsworth> i wish i would have bought more of that bandolera beer. it was so tasty
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: do you have any test snaps that use either of the build snaps and also use vala?
<jdstrand> kenvandine: hey, I was looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-monitor/+bug/1778332/comments/5
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1778332 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "Apparmor Permission Denied (apparmor="DENIED")" [Low,Expired]
<jdstrand> kenvandine: I don't have a good place to put the access for this denial. I suggest your use system-files. let me try something
<jdstrand> kenvandine: it is fixed with https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jG7CHKvFxF/
<jdstrand> kenvandine: is this something you could request in the forum and fix in the snap?
<kenvandine> jdstrand: sure
<kenvandine> jdstrand: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/requesting-autoconnect-of-system-files-for-gnome-system-monitor/14280
<jdstrand> kenvandine: responded, thanks!
<kenvandine> jdstrand: once autoconnect is granted, does snapd autoconnect on refresh?
<kenvandine> jdstrand: ok, built and in the review queue
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: gnome-calculator
<marcustomlinson> https://code.launchpad.net/~marcustomlinson/+git/gnome-calculator
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: when i tried to use the build snap for gnome-2048 meson failed with "Compiler not found: valac"
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: can I see your yaml?
<marcustomlinson> which build snap?
<hellsworth> with the gnoem-3-34-1804-sdk?
<kenvandine> gnome-3-32-1804
<kenvandine> +-sdk
<kenvandine> because gnome-3-32-1804 is autoconnected
<marcustomlinson> sound like something may be missing from your build-environment
<kenvandine> i'm comparing
<kenvandine> i don't think i am
<marcustomlinson> can I see your gnome-2048 yaml
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Yc6w6qShSz/
<marcustomlinson> /snap/gnome-3-32-1804-sdk/nt/usr/lib/vala-current
<marcustomlinson> '/nt'
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson: you found that quick!
 * kenvandine wonders where i got that form
<marcustomlinson> current
<marcustomlinson> -curre
<marcustomlinson> but there's also $SNAPCRAFT_STAGE in your env
<kenvandine> i dropped LDFLAGS and now it works :)
<marcustomlinson> :)
<hellsworth> why would that make it work though?
<kenvandine> the LDFLAGS didn't include paths to what was in the build snap
<hellsworth> both of those LDFLAGS are in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<kenvandine> LDFLAGS are used at build time
<kenvandine> LD_LIBRARY_PATH are for runtime
<kenvandine> we need both though
<marcustomlinson> you shouldn't need LDFLAGS if the pkgconfigs are correct
<hellsworth> I SEE
<hellsworth> oh caps
<kenvandine> yeah, the danger of copy/paste :)
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: thanks!
<marcustomlinson> np
<hellsworth> how do i know what env vars i could use in the environment section?
<hellsworth> like in gimp, i see that there is GIMP2_LOCALEDIR that is defined and used. how the heck would i know that GIMP2_LOCALEDIR is even an option to use?
<kenvandine> reading the gimp source
<kenvandine> i'd bet
<hellsworth> hmm
<kenvandine> that's a gimp specific env variable
<hellsworth> right
<hellsworth> ok i'll go take a look at the glimpse source to see if this is used or something similar
<kenvandine> grep for LOCALEDIR
<kenvandine> they might have just renamed it GLIMPSE_LOCALEDIR
<kenvandine> but hopefully they made it smarter :)
<hellsworth> it is apparently still GIMP2_LOCALEDIR
<hellsworth> there's still quite a bit of rebranding that needs to be done
<hellsworth> thanks kenvandine
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end all!
