#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-08
<matthewmpp> I have a quick question: does anyone know how to say "here" (in this directory) in Bash?
<hyperair> .
<hyperair> or.. $(pwd)
<hyperair> or.. `pwd`
<matthewmpp> okay, thanks.
<hyperair> or.. ../$(basename $(pwd))
<hyperair> =D
 * asac says hello
<mvo> hey asac!
<asac> hi mvo ;)
 * asac dives into monday morning mail fun :)
<mvo> asac: yeah, I'm right in it currently - but tea is my saviour
<pitti> hey mvo
<pitti> asac: good morning
<mvo> hey pitti, good morning
<asac> morning pitti
<asac> http://techvideoblog.com/computex/arm-director-of-mobile-computing-about-arm-laptops-with-android-and-ubuntu/
<didrocks> good morning o/
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti, is your flu getting better?
<pitti> didrocks: last days of it, just a minor inconvenience now; thanks
<didrocks> pitti: do you thing that bug #182345 worthes a fix in hardy/intrepid-update?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182345 in nautilus-actions "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gconf_client_remove_dir()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182345
<didrocks> hey seb128 ;)
<seb128> hello didrocks
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks: intrepid: no, who still use that when it's not a lts and jaunty is clearly better?
<pitti> seb128: for hardy it sounds fine, given the number of dups
<didrocks> seb128: I fixed it in jaunty before the release and it seems that there is no regression
<seb128> didrocks: still who cares about intrepid?
<didrocks> seb128: ok, so, I can fix it in hardy :)
<seb128> that's what I would suggest
<seb128> that's only my opinion though
<seb128> hey pitti!
<pitti> didrocks: I concur with Seb
<didrocks> ok, it's not a big deal. I think I can find some time this evening to do it.
<asac> ArneGoetje: any idea yet, when we do the next scheduled langpack SRU?
<crevette> good morning
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> so I don't recommend anybody to upgrade to karmic
<seb128> xorg crashes when I lock the screen, suspend doesn't work, vt switch bugs
<pitti> ugh
<seb128> not upgrading before uds was a good move ;-)
<crevette> hey karmic is working almost fine here
<pitti> seb128: is that with xorg-edgers or pure karmic?
<seb128> pure karmic
<seb128> and still running the jaunty linux version
<pitti> eww
<pitti> seb128: I don't think that's a good idea
<pitti> the new intel driver needs the latest kernel pretty much
<pitti> they dropped EXA and such
<seb128> there is nothing in the chain of depends suggestion that
<seb128> I'm playing luser there ;-)
<pitti> well, a luser would have update-manager'ed and got 2.6.30 :)
<seb128> yeah could be, I just had hours of download to get there and decided to upgrade gradually components I'm interested in
<crevette> stp spreading FUD on ubuntu seb128 !!!! (:)
 * seb128 kicks crevette
 * crevette ducks
<pitti> seb128: I'm really interested in how it works for you on 2.6.30
<pitti> it's supposed to be wonderful
<pitti> (especially once you enable KMS)
<crevette> I've a potential fix for bluetooth for jaunty, is there a process before proposing it to make sure it can go on SRU?
<seb128> crevette: to fix what?
<pitti> crevette: make sure it matches the SRU criteria
<seb128> pitti: ok, will continue upgrading today and let you know
<pitti> seb128: merci
<crevette> seb128, pairting not working, with potential overflow, the patch comes from upstream
<seb128> crevette: sounds like a candidate for a stable update
<crevette> I have a confirmation it fixes the problem, I hope I can haz more confirmation
<seb128> doh
<seb128> mailing lists ...
<seb128> every day a new endless discussion there, mono, units, etc
<pitti> delete-thread FTW :)
 * pitti ignored the mono one
<seb128> I'm just reading it quickly to know what this one is about
<seb128> I've ignored the units one
<seb128> this email is not really code of conduct friendly
<crevette> the bug is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/332119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 332119 in bluez "bluetoothd crashed with SIGSEGV in sdp_append_to_buf()" [Undecided,New]
<crevette> if it matters
<smb> Hello somebody around who knows more details on gvfs than I do?
<seb128> not easy to say without knowing what you know ;-)
<smb> Probably not that much except it is there and does network mounts (too) :)
<smb> I am currently looking at bug 276472
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276472 in linux "cp -p on CIFS mount does not preserve timestamp" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276472
<smb> That came in as cifs bug but seems fixed there
<smb> Only with gvfs I cannot do a touch on a file (operation not supported)
<smb> Now, the question would be intended or bug...
<smb> (the latest userspace I verified this was Jaunty)
<seb128> do you try to touch on what location?
<smb> Ok, right. The testcase is: mount share via gvfs. create a directory there and a file within that with touch. The response is the error above while the file is created with the current time and date
<smb> Writing to the file also updates the time, only touch fails (so will cp -p)
<seb128> gvfs can't do mounts
<seb128> it does gmounts which can be used by GNOME applications
<seb128> but "touch webdav://something" is not likely to work, I doubt touch understand gvfs uris
<seb128> or use gvfs
<seb128> or do you use the fuse .gvfs?
<smb> It is mounted with fuse to $HOME/.gvfs/<share> Yes
<smb> Thats done automatically when browsing into that share
<smb> So the touch is done in that fuse subdirectory
<seb128> could be a fuse limitation
<seb128> I think that has been discussed upstream before
<smb> That might be. That is where my knowledge stops.
<smb> It seems unlikely a kernel problem (except if there is problem with the fuse kernel interface)
<crevette> hmm bluez is a good canditate for merging with debian
<asac> crevette: are there any changes left in ubuntu?
<crevette> asac, from what I seen we carry the almost same patch
<asac> crevette: so sync?
<crevette> yep even, I need to double-check, because the packaging is different, so I need to confirm this is okay
<asac> thanks
<asac> let us know.
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if you saw my message over the weekend or not
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I did
<pitti> chrisccoulson: apparently that was an accident, sorry; I copied it to karmic now as well
<chrisccoulson> i wasnt sure if it was intntional or not
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<chrisccoulson> there was a positive comment about the upgrade on a separate bug report (bug 361560)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 361560 in tracker "Corrupted tracker index causes persistent applet error popup (dup-of: 346912)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/361560
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 346912 in tracker "Tracker index corruption (was Tracker does not stop indexing)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346912
<davmor2> guys I've noticed a couple of issues with totem plugins in karmic.  The bbciPlayer plugin doesn't install and I don't seem to be able to find the youtube plugin anymore even though it is still listed in synaptic for totem-plugins
<davmor2> Bug 384768 and Bug 384767
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384768 in totem "Karmic: Totem Youtube plugin option seems to of vanished" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384768
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384767 in totem "Karmic: Totem BBCiPlayer plugin doesn't install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384767
<seb128> davmor2: no need to join the channel 10 minutes after bug are submitted if everybody was doing that we could not use IRC
<asac> so rfcXXXX.txt documents are not dfsg right?
<asac> nevermind ill ask on -devel
<seb128> asac: do we care about dfsg in ubuntu?
<asac> seb128: to some degree yes (not sure where we draw the line). anyway, having the package dfsg free allows me to upload to debian too ;)
<davmor2> seb128: normally I'd ask before hand.  But I thought if these were things that were expecting to be working in alpha 2 then it might be worth mentioning them here too.  But I do take your point :)
<seb128> those don't seem stopper for alpha2 to me
<seb128> it's still an early alpha, I expect it to install run and mostly work, we don't care if a corner option of one application doesn't work as expected
<seb128> better to keep IRC lobbying for real issue otherwise people will just start ignoring what you say if you list every small glitch there, we get hundred of bugs a day
<davmor2> seb128: I thought that the iplayer one might of been important.  But that's okay :)
<seb128> davmor2: what is iplayer?
<seb128> that's something I don't even know about
<seb128> those bugs are about youtube and bbc no?
<davmor2> yes BBCiPlayer
<davmor2> seb128: iplayer is the bbc's way of doing internet tv :)
<seb128> that one is a new upstream thing, that never worked or was there before
<seb128> I fail to see why it should be a stopper now because it has just been added and it's not working
<davmor2> okay
<seb128> and the youtube plugin not being built was described in the changelog with the reason
<seb128> sorry about the ranting, I've read too many bugs today with the weekend backlog etc
<davmor2> seb128: One other thing I noticed is that during the install I get an error about /dev/sda being mounted.  I've had a word with the installer guys and they have said it is expected behaviour from the installer, however they are not convinced it is expected system behaviour.  The icon of the hd vanishes leading you to believe that it has been unmounted where as in fact it isn't.  Any idea what I should file the bug
<seb128> "an error about /dev/sda being mounted."
<seb128> what sort of error? do you have a screenshot?
<rodrigo_> is there any way to have empathy color the tabs, or notify me when someone talks to me on a public channel?
<rodrigo_> it just notifies me of private messages
<seb128> usually we don't display error about things mounted, rather about things which can't be unmounted
<davmor2> seb128: Sorry error is the wrong word a dialogue box warning "The installer has detected that the following disks have mounted partitions: /dev/sda ......."
<seb128> ubiquity
<seb128> if the error message is an installer one it's an installer bug
<Zdra> rodrigo_: you get urgent hint on the chat window
<rodrigo_> Zdra: I don't, or I can't see it
<Zdra> rodrigo_: depends on the version you are using, we fixed a bug about that recently
<rodrigo_> 2.26.1
<seb128> Zdra: empathy not showing connection errors is a known issue?
<Zdra> rodrigo_: The patch that fixed urgency hint for MUC: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/empathy/commit/?id=7c1c77662edf9ef232bb7648fa6c516d31de3648
<Zdra> rodrigo_: I don't remember if that was included in 2.26
<Zdra> seb128: The main window shows an error, normally
<rodrigo_> Zdra: seems not in here, so where are packages for that fix if any?
<Zdra> seb128: but it is known that in general error reporting is really poor
<seb128> not there, and the status is displayed nowhere out of the details dialog that I found just by playing around
<rodrigo_> I seem to be missing people's comments a lot since I moved to empathy :)
<cjwatson> hi, davmor2 said he was having trouble explaining an installer-relevant problem here
<Zdra> rodrigo_: you can use the telepathy ppa to use 2.27.x versions
<seb128> empathy doesn't make me a great impression either so far too
<seb128> cjwatson: <davmor2> seb128: Sorry error is the wrong word a dialogue box warning "The installer has detected that the following disks have mounted partitions: /dev/sda ......."
<rodrigo_> Zdra: and would that bring too many karmic deps?
<rodrigo_> Zdra: still on jaunty here
<cjwatson> ok, let me explain with a tad more context :-)
<seb128> cjwatson: that's what he described and yeah, I've difficulties to understand the issue
<Zdra> rodrigo_: we backport everything to jaunty
<rodrigo_> ah cool!
<cjwatson> apparently on karmic the desktop automounts filesystems a bit more aggressively than it used to (at least, that's what the symptoms suggest)
<seb128> I would not be surprised since we switched to a new technology, ie devicekit-disks
<cjwatson> since the installer is doing partitioning, it needs to make sure that the disk it's partitioning isn't busy - that is, no filesystems on it are allowed to be mounted
<cjwatson> is the more aggressive automounting deliberate?
<cjwatson> or just an accidental consequence of switching to dk-disks?
<seb128> not sure, do you have details on what event trigger the mounting?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> AFAIK they're just mounted on startup
<davmor2> seb128: it's just mount on the live desktop when the system starts
<seb128> I would say that devicekit-disks behaves differently from what we had, we need details about the events it reacts to to say if that's a bug or not
<seb128> pitti: ^ do you know?
<cjwatson> automounting is something we used to do, and then AFAIK deliberately moved away from since it caused problems
<cjwatson> for instance automounting journalled filesystems was an issue for anyone who'd hibernated
<cjwatson> so I was a bit surprised to hear about it returning
<seb128> the GNOME stack should not automount static partitions, only removable devices
<cjwatson> davmor2: is /dev/sda your USB stick or your hard disk?
<rodrigo_> ok, brb on empathy 2.27.x
<davmor2> cjwatson: seb128:  No sda is my main harddrive
<cjwatson> yeah, the installer would normally only complain about the installation *target* so that makes sense
<seb128> I doubt it's GNOME mounting it, you would need a password to mount a static partition
<seb128> ie get a policykit dialog asking your password to do the mount
<cjwatson> I suppose there's an outside chance it could be casper, but nothing relevant has changed in that area as far as I know
<cjwatson> do you mean GNOME as distinct from DK-disks
<cjwatson> ?
<seb128> could be lower in the stack, ie devicekit-disks
<seb128> let's wait for pitti, he's the one who knows about this one
<cjwatson> ok
<seb128> yeah, GNOME, as gvfs etc
<rodrigo_> hmm, empty contacts list in empathy 2.27.2, is that known?
<seb128> gvfs used hal as a backend and use devicekit-disks now
<seb128> so maybe it gets different events
<seb128> but gvfs would be asking for a password to mount a static partition so I guess it's something lower in the stack doing it
<davmor2> seb128: there's no policykit password request.
<seb128> do we have any indication of when that behaviour started?
<seb128> pedro_: ola!
<pedro_> bonjour seb128!
<davmor2> seb128: it didn't before uds
<pedro_> seb128: feeling better?
<seb128> ok, so it's a "some weeks margin"
<davmor2> this is my first test post uds
<seb128> not making very easy to spot what changed
<cjwatson> hardly davmor2's fault, we didn't have karmic live CDs for ages
<seb128> pedro_: yeah, spent my weekend in bed, thanks to you but today I'm almost back to normal, just coughing still
 * mvo hugs seb128
<mvo> seb128: get well!
<pedro_> was the french flu not mine :-P
<seb128> cjwatson: oh I was not blaming anybody, just trying to figure if that was matching recent changes ;-)
<rodrigo_> hola pedro_
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<pedro_> hola rodrigo_
<pedro_> hey mvo
<mvo> hey pedro_
<seb128> mvo: I got the chilian flu, I can understand you felt after GUADEC now
<pedro_> I got the french one and then you get the same
<seb128> pedro_: no no, I only had running nose and I was fine, with you flu I've spent almost a week being k.o
<pedro_> so it was a variant of your own flu!
<didrocks> pedro_: not the french one. I didn't got it :) (hey !)
<pedro_> didrocks: hello!, because you're french and inmune!
<seb128> next they will call me german again ... ;-)
<didrocks> ahah :-)
<didrocks> seb128: as soon as the "Application Priorities" spec is ready, I agree to work on it, as we discussed at UDS
<didrocks> (and yes, I just got spammed ;))
<seb128> didrocks: ok, excellent ;-)
<kenvandine> seb128: feeling better i hope?
<seb128> pitti: did you read the backlog?
<pitti> oops, doing now
<seb128> pitti: nothing urgent don't worry, btw do we have some documentation on devicekit-disks, how to debug issues in the new world etc?
<pitti> cjwatson: you mean internal disks get automounted?
<pitti> cjwatson: that's indeed a fallout from hal -> DK migration
<pitti> cjwatson: I disabled that for internal disks in hal
<pitti> but didn't port the patch to dk
<pitti> seb128: no documentation yet
<pitti> cjwatson: indeed, I guess partman needs to be updated for that (devkit-disks --inhibit <program>, or spawn devkit-disks --inhibit and kill it once your're done)
<cjwatson> what does partman have to do with it?
<pitti> seb128: you can run the d-bus backend in the foreground for debugging output, similar to hal
<pitti> cjwatson: ubiquity, sorry
<cjwatson> but the disks are being automounted before ubiquity starts
<pitti> cjwatson: right, I need to fix that
<cjwatson> I mean, OK, we can convert ubiquity over, it just doesn't seem to address this :)
<pitti> cjwatson: it just occurred to me that ubiquity needs a replacement for the current hal automount inhibition
<cjwatson> ok, I'll look at that, thanks
<cjwatson> pitti: does it have the same argument handling stupidity as hal-lock?
<pitti> seb128: ^ BTW, we need to fix that in gvfs
<seb128> pitti: "that"?
<pitti> seb128: not automount internal drives by default
<seb128> pitti: it's not gvfs doing the automounting, is it?
<pitti> seb128: I suppose it is, what else?
<seb128> gvfs would need to ask you polkit credentials
<pitti> seb128: not in the live system
<seb128> and it doesn't
<pitti> cjwatson: in what way?
<seb128> pitti: hum, it's weird, on my laptop partitions are not automounted
<pitti> seb128: nautilus then, I suppose; well, I'll look at it
<cjwatson> pitti: hal-lock took the subsidiary program and arguments to run as a single argument, so you had to join them together with spaces
<seb128> I'm not sure why it would be different on the livecd though
<cjwatson> e.g. hal-lock --interface org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Storage --exclusive --run 'ubiquity --foo --bar'
<cjwatson> rather than e.g. having a -- to terminate its own options
<pitti> cjwatson: no, that works now (with --)
<cjwatson> oh good, thanks
<pitti> sudo devkit-disks --inhibit -- ls --help
<pitti> -> ls help
<pitti> sudo devkit-disks --inhibit  ls --help
<pitti> -> dk-disks help
<ArneGoetje> asac: there are language-pack updates waiting in -proposed for Hardy and Intrepid. So far I didn't get any feedback yet from the community. Next updates are due after the Rosetta database has been converted to use message sharing.
<asac> ArneGoetje: why just hardy/intrepid and not jaunt?
<asac> y
<ArneGoetje> asac: because the process for message sharing started immediately after Jauty release and hasn't finished yet.
<asac> ArneGoetje: will that have any impact on output format/syntax of the exported po files?
<ArneGoetje> asac: nope
<ArneGoetje> asac: but after the db has been converted, there will be an influx of "new" messages across the stable releases.
<asac> ArneGoetje: what does "process" mean here? rolling out code? or db conversion?
<ArneGoetje> code and db conversion. db conversion has not finished yet.
<asac> ArneGoetje: can you explain what "influx of new messages across ..." means?
<ArneGoetje> asac: message sharing means, that for the same project (e.g. Ubuntu) messages and translations get shared across the releases. Before they have been separated. Means translators had to translate the same string for the same applications multiple times to make it available in all releases. MOst translators only focused on the current release, some focused on the last LTS, instead. Example: a number of strings have been translated for Hardy after its
<asac> ArneGoetje: ok thanks. wonder what that means for firefox-3.5 vs. firefox. i think it will not matter if we use a different template name?
<asac> ArneGoetje: any clue why our firefox-3.0 source provided template is called "firefox" (without version) in rosetta?
<ArneGoetje> asac: correct.
<asac> same for xulrunner-1.9
<ArneGoetje> asac: because it wasn't necessary to have a version number, yet.
<ArneGoetje> asac: will the templates be radically different from firefox-3?
<asac> ArneGoetje: that might be the rational, but how did this happen? was that done manually? what happens if i upload firefox-3.5?
<rickspencer3> pitti: good afternoon
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, how was your weekend?
<rickspencer3> pitti: fine, though I discovered that liblaunchpad is not entirely thread safe :(
<ArneGoetje> asac: I suppose that sourcepackage would then be named accordingly and not firefox-3?
<asac> ArneGoetje: yes.
<ArneGoetje> asac: would it be possible to have both, firefox 3 and 3.5 installed in parallel?
<rickspencer3> pitti: I can surely put the burndown script in a lp branch, but I'm not sure what people.ubuntu is, or how to use it
<rickspencer3> should I?
<asac> ArneGoetje: yes
<asac> ArneGoetje: i want them to have different templates
<asac> ArneGoetje: i am just curious how the firefox-3.0 template got named firefox in rosetta
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's your ~/public_html/ on ronne.ubuntu.com
<ArneGoetje> asac: makes sense then.
<pitti> rickspencer3: we use that for storing publicly accessible stuff, both temporary (like http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/) and permanent (like http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts)
<ArneGoetje> asac: we set the name manually. It's also possible to rename templates in the database.
<pitti> rickspencer3: I also use to put my talk slides there, and so on
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<asac> ArneGoetje: ok. so currently there is a mapping firefox-3.0 -> firefox and xulrunner-1.9 -> xulrunner. good.
<rickspencer3> sounds like I should learn how to do that
<ArneGoetje> asac: yes
<ArneGoetje> asac: we can rename the old ones to carry the version number if you want, or we just name the new ones to carry the new version number. It's basically the script in langpack-o-matic, which needs to distinguish the versions. And currently the xpis are in rosetta-jaunty/xpi/firefox/ and rosetta-jaunty/xpi/xulrunner. If we rename those two templates to carry the version number, those directories will reflect this.
<seb128> kenvandine: hi
<asac> ArneGoetje: right. i think it would be good to rename them ...
<asac> ArneGoetje: but i think not now. lets better wait till we have ffox 3.5 and then fix bugs in lang-pack-o-matic first
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<kenvandine> seb128: feeling better?
<ArneGoetje> asac: +1
<asac> ArneGoetje: so is there any ETA on when we can start using rosetta for kamic?
<ArneGoetje> asac: I hope in the end of this month. Need to prod the rosetta guys how their testing is going.
 * asac noted
<seb128> kenvandine: yes, much better, thank you
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> seb128: see my mail about empathy?
<seb128> kenvandine: to respond to your email, using libpurple for msn sounds good indeed
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> how about python-telepathy?
<kenvandine> i think it would be useful
<seb128> kenvandine: in which sense?
<seb128> kenvandine: is it used right now?
<kenvandine> i think only for butterfly
<kenvandine> but other apps could use it
<seb128> we can delay the mir until it's required
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> usually we do mir things when we block on those
<kenvandine> sounds good... i need to run... be back in a couple hours :)
<seb128> btw are you done with the other mir for telepathy*?
<kenvandine> later folks!
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> I noticed you didn't open bugs
<kenvandine> yes i did
<seb128> or didn't subscribe the ubuntu-mir team to those
<kenvandine> there are links to the bugs in the wiki pages
<seb128> they were not on the team buglist some hours ago
<kenvandine> i wanted you to look at them first :)
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> will do that
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> see you later!
<kenvandine> my first MIRs :)
<seb128> pitti: ^ empathy, telepathy-* MIR have been written if you want to push it before alpha2
<Mark__T> tedg: got my mail?
<pitti> seb128: oh, great! hm, didn't get MIR bug mail
<seb128> pitti: kenvandine didn't subscribe the ubuntu-mir team yet to those he wanted me to have a look first, I will do that now and subscribe the team
<seb128> pitti: btw did you send an email with empty subject and content to ubuntu-devel-list or purpose or that's an error?
<seb128> or a spammer?
<pitti> seb128: was already pointed out; no idea how that happened
<seb128> ok
<tedg> Mark__T: Yes.  Thank you!
<Mark__T> your welcome (though I don't like signing anything)
<crevette> asac, btw why gnome-bluetooth wasn't uploaded yet?
<asac> crevette: thought you wanted to update the patch with upstream comments
<crevette> asac, I thought the debian version would be uploaded first and I would patch it later
<crevette> but it's okay
<asac> crevette: gnome-bluetooth (2.27.5-1) unstable; urgency=low
<asac> thats what is currently in karmic
<crevette> asac, ah I didn't had it ...
<asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-bluetooth
<crevette> okay cool, my patch is in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/372395 waiting for a review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please merge gnome-bluetooth 2.27.5 from debian" [Wishlist,In progress]
<asac> crevette: is that with upstream comments?
<crevette> not yet
<jcastro> pitti: wrt. banshee memory consumption I think it's best to wait until mono 2.4 hits karmic and then test, it would be a waste to test it on the old stack
<crevette> asac, but for the comment on libnotify in the patch, how  should I do?
<asac> crevette: adress everything except that. i dont think he will hold back the patch just because of that
<asac> crevette: point him to http://trac.galago-project.org/ticket/188 and the launchpad bug 383875 if you want to show him that there is work in progress on improving libnotify
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383875 in libnotify "add convenience function "notify_has_server_cap" to notify.h" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383875
<pitti> jcastro: sure
<seb128> jcastro, pitti: what is the discussion about?
<jcastro> seb128: pitti updated the spec asking if someone was going to do a memory breakdown
<seb128> ah ok
<seb128> pitti: your G1 works fine with rhythmbox? kenvandine tried during the uds session and said it was not working
<pitti> seb128: probably missing product ID in hal-info
<pitti> I didn't upload the very latest hal-info to karmic yet
<seb128> jcastro: what are the big selling point for banshee, responsive upstream doesn't fit in user story and pitti doesn't believe in device syncing ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oh, don't get me wrong; responsive upstream is a big plus :)
<seb128> pitti: to be honest I've not so much user stories to sell it
<seb128> it's just it get lot of work where rhythmbox almost get none
<pitti> I'd just like to see some more compelling argument than just "it's something else with the same functionality but twice the CPU and RAM cost"
<seb128> and ipod syncing seems to be a thing almost every ipod customer or eom wants
<pitti> hm, I had assumed that ipods have worked for years
<seb128> ipod or device, that works for other devices too
<pitti> the one that I borrowed worked fine, anyway
<jcastro> seb128: we wrote them all down!
<pitti> did that get broken?
<jcastro> video podcasts with syncing is nice
<seb128> pitti: "syncing", is a 2 ways update, not you doing manual dnd
<pitti> seb128: I see
<seb128> pitti: ie you plug you ipod, click "sync" and it upload all the song which have been added to your library since you previous plugged the device
<seb128> it's a "keep my datas in sync" thing
<seb128> the same way you would do with contacts
<didrocks> seb128: oh, btw, if you have some time to see if everything's ok for you at bug #384236
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384236 in gnome-python "Please, merge dbg packages into one" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384236
<seb128> didrocks: yeah, it's on my todolist
<didrocks> seb128: great, keep me in touch :)
<seb128> mvo: could you look at bug #384824?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384824 in gnome-desktop "package libgnome-desktop-2-11 1:2.26.1-0ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: package libgnome-desktop-2-11 is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384824
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<mvo> seb128: hm, hm, I asked for more info
<seb128> mvo: thanks
<seb128> mvo: would it make sense to auto add dpkg.log for upgrade issues?
<mvo> seb128: probably, up until now the terminal log was good enough for 99% of the issues
<mvo> seb128: the those "already installed and configured errors" are a mystery
<seb128> but it's not in this case?
<seb128> we get quite a lot of those ...
<mvo> seb128: I wish I would get hold of somoene getting it in irc
<seb128> mvo: could you also look to those
<mvo> seb128: yes :(
<seb128> bug #372451
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372451 in bug-buddy "package bug-buddy 2.24.1dfsg-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: package bug-buddy is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372451
<seb128> bug #363825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 363825 in dpkg "package capplets-data 1:2.24.0.1-0ubuntu7.1 failed to install/upgrade: package capplets-data is already installed and configured" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/363825
<seb128> mvo: I guess those are the same issue
<seb128> do you have a bug to use as master for those issues?
<mvo> seb128: sort of, the first I know about is #291482
<mvo> seb128: but the former happend during a complex dist-upgrade
<mvo> seb128: and the later does not, its a very simple operation apparently
<Pici> 4/22
<Pici> ermm, sorry
 * kenvandine returns
<rickspencer31> kenvandine: do you know to crop a photo with f-spot?
<irvan> hi
<rickspencer31> hi irvan
<kenvandine> rickspencer31: yeah, in edit mode
<rickspencer31> I'm in edit mode, and have a section selected
<rickspencer31> help says: Once you have made your crop selection, you must click the crop button beneath
<rickspencer31> 					the image to finalize the crop. If you are working with the original photo, cropping
<rickspencer31> 					creates a new version your photo.
<rickspencer31> 				
<kenvandine> see the crop button
<rickspencer31> but I can't see the crop button
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> there is a right-left scroll bar
<kenvandine> that sucks
<rickspencer31> don't see one
<kenvandine> do you see a cancel button?
<rickspencer31> nope (using Jaunty atm)
<kenvandine> you hit the crop button then select a region
<kenvandine> or
<irvan> i wnat to use a tv card on my system but no application will not work it wit
<kenvandine> chose a restraint
<irvan> pls help me
<kenvandine> hi irvan
<rickspencer31> kenvandine: I have no "crop button" that I can see
<kenvandine> in edit mode of the photo?
<kenvandine> weird... you should
<rickspencer31> hmmm
<kenvandine> do you have a left pane?
<kenvandine> irvan: you probably want #ubuntu
<rickspencer31> omg
<rickspencer31> the left pane was collapsed all the way down
<kenvandine> irvan: this is the desktop team channel, user support is in #ubuntu
<rickspencer31> I had no idea
<kenvandine> rickspencer31: ah!
<rickspencer31> that sux!
<kenvandine> file a bug please :)
<rickspencer31> kenvandine: I'll check it out when I install karmic
<kenvandine> ok
<rickspencer31> irvan: right, this is where the developers of Ubuntu itself hang out (as well as a pointy haired manager or two)
<kenvandine> hehe
<rickspencer31> irvan: you're welcome to hang out, but you'll probably get better results at #ubuntu
<seb128> rickspencer31, kenvandine: the sidepane bar width being 0 was an intrepid bug fixed in jaunty but user config don't change on upgrade
<seb128> rickspencer31: try with a guest user if you get the issue
<rickspencer31> seb128: ack
<rickspencer31> thanks for the info
<rickspencer31> seb128: will do
<NCommander> seb128, if you have some free time later today, I have an ARM FTBFS fix for gnome-power-manager thats been sitting on launchpad for awhile, and it would be nice if that got sponsored soonish :-)
<NCommander> (its not a rush job)
<seb128> did you subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug?
<NCommander> seb128, yes
<seb128> ok, so it's probably not there for "a while", I've reviewed the list some days ago and it was not there
<seb128> anyway it's almost diner time here but I will do that tomorrow if pitti is not faster on it
<NCommander> like I said, low priority. I think I had the bug open, then came back and found sponsors missing
<NCommander> so I misspoke.
<pitti> need to run in 5 mins for Taekwondo, sorry
<pitti> so, time to say "good night"
<seb128> ok, please subscribe the sponsor team so it's listed on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/index.html
<pitti> NCommander: will remember to do some sponsoring tomorrow morning again
<seb128> time for dinner here too
<seb128> pitti: enjoy!
 * pitti had his 2 hours share of sponsoring this week already
 * seb128 no swimming, still not feeling good enough for that
<pitti> NCommander: ^ fortunately for you our concept of "week" starts on Tuesdays :)
<NCommander> pitti, timezones rock.
<kenvandine> crevette: have you done anything with the notify osd patches for gnome-bluetooth yet?
<crevette> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=584857
<ubottu> Gnome bug 584857 in general "[patch] support notification deamon without actions capabilities" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<crevette> sent upstream, trying to understand with my low coding-fu what to do
<kenvandine> crevette: want me to try to modify it to meet their needs?
<crevette> I'm in the middle of it, trying to understand the g_list_find_custom thingy
<kenvandine> ok, you got the rest already?
<kenvandine> crevette: ok, well let me know if you need anything
<crevette> the other is quite trivial :)
<crevette> kenvandine: I'll made you review it, it'll avoid make me flamed by hadess
<crevette> :)
<asac> crevette: i used the custom thingy in the patch for libnotify
<asac> thats bug 383875
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 383875 in libnotify "add convenience function "notify_has_server_cap" to notify.h" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383875
<crevette> I'll not read now in order to try to found myself
<asac> crevette: yeah. check when you are finished ;)
<hggdh> seb128, hi. Would it be worth any to have evolution (during the development cycle) to save the debug log? We would have to set the environment variables for that
<seb128> hggdh: no opinion about that, in most case have clear steps to trigger the issue is enough and we don't ask for debug logs so often, but if you think that's a good idea feel free to submit a change to review
<crevette> asac: yeah, (sorry I was away, it was dinner time)
<asac> crevette: dinner is for the weak :-P ...
<asac> just kidding :)
<hggdh> seb128, I am not sure myself. I wrote a first try on a apport-hook for Evo, but found myself being paranoid on uploading gconf data, and unsure about the debug log... will think more on that
<seb128> hggdh: yeah, don't print account informations, I'm not sure other settings are often useful for bugs on evolution
<hggdh> seb128, agreed. Found myself using only a few of the gconf data. I am starting to lean more on sanitising BT full as the only thing really useful (generically) for Evo
<hggdh> i.e., masking out account names & servers
<seb128> that would be nice indeed
<hggdh> will work more on that, then.
<crevette> asac: so basically for g_list_find_custom is should like http://dpaste.com/52960/ ?
<asac> crevette: is that paste complete?
<crevette> hmm, I forget the return part
<asac> crevette: also you have syntax error in lines following 7
<asac> and the if
<asac> misses brackets ;)
<crevette> ah true
<asac> crevette: but the g_list_find_custom itself looks ok
<chrisccoulson> what populates the GList 'caps' there as well?
<asac> crevette: also you nowehere get the caps
<asac> right
<asac> you have to get that
<asac> if you want you can just pick the function body from my patch here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27521372/libnotify_server_caps_convenience.patch
<crevette> did forget caps = notify_get_server_caps();?
<asac> that patch doesnt cache the result, but imo that shouldnt be built into all apps. rather libnotify should be fixed to cache and flush cache on NameOwnerChanged
<crevette> ah yeah, it was really a quick cut'n paste
<asac> crevette: right. you forgot that in the if (!have_checked)
<crevette> my copy wasn't complete, I wonder what I did
<asac> 21:32 < asac> crevette: is that paste complete?
<asac> :-P
<crevette> asac: should I check for NULL for caps "if (caps != NULL) {" before g_list_find_custom?
<asac> crevette: NULL is empty list. so g_list_find should be safe
<crevette> okay
<crevette> http://dpaste.com/52975/ asac, is it better ?
<asac> crevette: thats a db table ;)
<crevette> http://dpaste.com/52976/ asac, is it better ?
<crevette> :)
<asac> crevette: yeah. though i wouldnt do the caching
<asac> did he ask for that?
<crevette> I took the code from bratsche
<asac> crevette: GList* c; is not used
<crevette> ah yeah I can remove that
<crevette> I can remove the have_checked if needed
<asac> crevette: i would think we should remove the caching
<asac> otherwise we need to patch all apps again when we fix libnotify to do the caching for us ;)
<crevette> what do you call caching? (sorry)
<asac> crevette: all the static stuff and the have_checked thing
<crevette> http://dpaste.com/52980/
<crevette> sorry asac, for such trivial patch
<asac> welcome
<asac> try to build ;)
<crevette> let's go
<asac> (its wrong) ;)
<crevette> ah
<crevette> yeah some c'n'p stupidities
<crevette> :/
<crevette> http://dpaste.com/52985/
<crevette> and it compiles
<asac> crevette: heh. yeah. now compare to what i had in the patch
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27521372/libnotify_server_caps_convenience.patch
<asac> crevette: also check if your code style matches what is used else where
<asac> in particular the if with just one line is most likely usually not done using {} brackets
<crevette> I corrected the code style already I think, the only problem is make sure I don't use space but tab
<crevette> as I can remove the brackets
<asac> crevette: right. but check what i said about the "if" and the {} brackets
<crevette> s/as/ah/
<asac> just check what the rest of the code does
<asac> so after that go ahead ;)
<asac> after the rest cleanup we can resubmit and upload the package imo
<crevette> for 1 line, the if doens't contains {}
<crevette> I wonder if vim can help me to get ride of the space versus tab
<crevette> problem
<asac> crevette: not sure. only know that it works well if you have emacs header in the file and say "indent-all"
<asac> like: /* -*- Mode: C; tab-width: 4; indent-tabs-mode: t; c-basic-offset: 4 -*- */
<asac> in the first line
<asac> thats what we have in NM
<asac> vim can probably do the same, but i dont know how ;)
<crevette> I lack of time to go deep in vim dcoumentation
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-09
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Tag pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: I had a quick look at bug #182345 for updating it in hardy. My memory was unfortunately good: the correction is not in only on changeset, there had been some code refactoring. So, do we take the svn version (same version than in jaunty?) or prefer to keep as it is?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182345 in nautilus-actions "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gconf_client_remove_dir()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182345
<pitti> didrocks: if it's not easy to produce a small and safe patch, let's leave it for now, I think
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I put the status in "won't fix"
<robert_ancell> morning
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> pitti: doing well
<seb128> hello robert_ancell pitti
<robert_ancell> hi seb128
<seb128> robert_ancell: what are you working on this week?
<seb128> I've seen the glade update
<robert_ancell> seb128: nothing much, I'm currently looking for things to do.  I guess I'll stop procrastinating about compiz and try and shift some of those bugs
<seb128> robert_ancell: do you still have the gnome-control-center merge on your list?
<robert_ancell> seb128: thanks, I knew there was something I'd said I'd do.  I couldn't find it on my GTD done list...
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> we have a new GNOME next week
<seb128> so this week is good time to do a good push on remaining merges, feel free to pick any on merges.ubuntu.com and help other people to do some
<robert_ancell> A lot of the stuff left on MoM I don't know a lot about
<seb128> did you fix the gdl update?
<seb128> I've not seen it on the sponsoring list again
<robert_ancell> I worked on the deps - gnome-python-extras needs modifying and gtranslator is ftbfs currently
<robert_ancell> I've updated the gdl bug with details
<seb128> what needs to be modified there?
<seb128> ok
<seb128> will have a look
<seb128> I will try to list of some desktop tasks for tomorrow if you want
<robert_ancell> i'll do gnome-screensaver and inkscape tomorrow too
<robert_ancell> I was looking at how hard it would be to make a GNOME desktop + LP linker as we discussed at UDS
<robert_ancell> Where do we get upstream versions from?  ftp.gnome.org doesn't seem to have easily parseable info
<seb128> good idea those, there is a 2.26 gnome-screensaver in bzr which was ready before jaunty
<seb128> we didn't upload though because there is an issue
<seb128> if you run 2.24 and upgrade, and lock screen you can't unlock
<seb128> it seems it doesn't like the server and frontend running version being in mismatch or something
<seb128> not sure how to solve that
<mvo> seb128: is that 2.24 only? or will it affect 2.22 (hardy) too (for the next lts upgrade)?
<seb128> mvo: I didn't try hardy but I would not be surprised if that would be the case
<pitti> seb128: in theory, we could have the postinst send a killall -HUP gnome-screensaver
<pitti> seb128: and add a patch to re-exec() itself on SIGHUP
<seb128> pitti: that would unlock locked sessions while the user ran away thinking the session was securely locked
<didrocks> hey seb128 & robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> hi didrocks
<pitti> seb128: if the protocol broke, I don't see a way to keep the current one running and working, though
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned that opening a menu or something during the split second between the stop and start would be easy enough
<seb128> that would prevent screen locking
<pitti> "physical access"...
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: so we have the choice of permanently locking out yourself or loosing lock at all?
<crevette> helo
<seb128> good point, if you let physical access to your box while not here you are screwed anyway
<seb128> lut didrocks crevette
<seb128> pitti: sort of, I've no found a great way to deal with this upgrade yet
<pitti> well, admittedly locked screensaver is a high enough barrier to stop random fellows walking by
<crevette> salut seb128 didrocks pitti
<pitti> hey crevette
<robert_ancell> seb128: what was wrong with g-c-c? We seem to be running the latest version
<didrocks> hey crevette
<seb128> robert_ancell: we need to merge on debian
<seb128> robert_ancell: ie rebase our changes, lower the delta, etc
<robert_ancell> seb128: sure
<robert_ancell> wow, are there enough patches on gnome-control-center?
<robert_ancell> is it mostly ubuntu specific or should this stuff be going upstream?
<mvo> the system-wide stuff (patch 50 and 51 IIRC), I tried to get upstream with little success :/ maybe its time for a second try
<robert_ancell> mvo: 50_ubuntu_systemwide_prefs.patch and 50_ubuntu_systemwide_prefs.patch? Do you have upstream bug numbers?
<seb128> robert_ancell: upstream is working on getting the touchpad changes in 2.27
<seb128> robert_ancell: the 1nn_screen are ubuntu specific, the 50, 51 95_desktop_effects too
<seb128> 96_build_sound_capplet was to be able to not use pulseaudio but we said we would drop that this cycle
<robert_ancell> see you later
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for sponsoring btw :)
<seb128> didrocks: you're welcome ;-)
<seb128> didrocks: do you still have some merge or update on your todlist?
<didrocks> so, if we stay in our ubuntu packages, apt can handle this case gracefully, without Provides, right?
<seb128> todolist
<didrocks> seb128: nothing, so the todolist is opened for inputswork :)
<didrocks> inputs*
<seb128> didrocks: as written on the bug Conflicts, Provides, Replaces used all 3 together is a special case and make apt upgrade calculation job easier
<seb128> didrocks: gnome-python-desktop is for you though, I though you said you would be doing both, same principle, debian splitted the binaries and that will be useful to clean some libs and not install those by default in karmic
<didrocks> seb128: oki, reading your answer, I was thinking that it was needed only for external dependency and that apt can handle it for internal packages
<seb128> didrocks: sorry if I was not clear, still a bit fighting ubuflu, I was saying that some packages out of ubuntu could be depending on those binaries
<seb128> + second argument
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will work on it, reading which splitting debian has done
<seb128> apt special case the triplet use
<didrocks> understood :)
<seb128> so 2 good reason to add the 1 line ;-)
<didrocks> indeed :-)
<seb128> not really highly required but it doesn't cost a lot either
<pitti> seb128: question in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-default-media-player-choice for you
 * seb128 hates spec writting ;-)
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<seb128> pitti: "# Having a small video player is useful, totem will still be used for that "
<seb128> pitti: first item of the design section
<pitti> ah, ok; sorry
<seb128> "that" == video playing
<seb128> sorry if that's not clear
<seb128> should I change the wording?
<pitti> thanks, approved
<pitti> no, I'm just blind
<seb128> danke!
<asac> pitti: oh didnt see you approved the bluetooth spec ;) ... now reapproved ;)
<pitti> asac: oh, did you just change something?
<asac> pitti: no. i changed it from "Pending Approval" to "Review"
<asac> ;)
<asac> wasnt sure what the right state was
<pitti> asac: either is fine
<pitti> we don't have explicit reviewers any more, so I'll look at both
<asac> good
<asac> pitti: rick is approver for desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5 ... want to do that as well?
<pitti> asac: okay
<asac> done
<pitti> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-browsers you mean?
<asac> remember to approve the "karmic" release goal too.
<asac> pitti: thats the general browser spec. there is a dependency just speccing the firefox 3.5 transition
<asac> pitti: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-firefox-3.5
<pitti> okay
<asac> i guess this spec could deserve a burn down chart on its own ;)
<chrisccoulson> does anybody know - if I use a GtkLabel in a dialog box, with line wrapping enabled - is there any way of getting the label text to expand to fill the horizontal space of the window, if the window is resized larger?
<seb128> that's a known GTK bug
<chrisccoulson> :(
<chrisccoulson> thanks seb128
<seb128> you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> i've created a dialog with 2 GtkLabel's to represent primary and seocndary text - one of them wraps at the edge of the window and the other one doesnt, so it looks really odd ;)
<seb128> you never noticed the issue?
<seb128> it's quite visible in lot of applications, update-manager for example
<seb128> bug #20096
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 20096 in gtk "Synaptic Dialogs do not wrap text labels dynamically when windows are resized" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20096
<chrisccoulson> tbh, i hadn't paid that much attention before. the only reason i noticed now is because i'm trying to create a dialog
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks for the link
<crevette> seb128, I remember there was a summer of code to solve this bug and also provide more flexible layout
<crevette> was it never commited?
<seb128> no
<crevette> I had to mark a dup of this bug yesterday in GNOME bts
<asac> crevette: so patch ready for upload ;)?
<crevette> asac, I didn't had the last reply from hadess
<asac> crevette: in gnome bug?
<crevette> I had one 2 minutes after my patch upload, and he saw me some small problem I fixed afterward
<asac> crevette: which bug id was it agfain?
<crevette> I can cc you
<asac> crevette: heh. better give me the bug id ;)
<crevette> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=584857
<ubottu> Gnome bug 584857 in general "[patch] support notification deamon without actions capabilities" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<asac> thanks
<asac> crevette: thats a different null thing. imo it shouldnt be needed, but ok
<asac> crevette: did you make a debdiff with the patch yet?
<crevette> asac, ah Okay, I was typing my question about that
<crevette> :)
<crevette> no, I wanted final comment
<asac> crevette: not needed for ubuntu. lets get the two things addressed and then uploaded
<crevette> you're luycky I brought my laptop at work today
<asac> heh cool
<crevette> so I can do the debdiff if you want
<asac> crevette: yeah. if you want the upload credits, give me debdiff ;)
<crevette> I want credit, off course !!!
<crevette> you should credit bratsche_ rather
<crevette> gnome session login is ssooo slooww
<crevette_> asac: upload to the ubuntu bug
<crevette_> uploaded
<asac> id?
<crevette_> lp 372395
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372395 in gnome-bluetooth "[karmic] Please merge gnome-bluetooth 2.27.5 from debian" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372395
<asac> gratias
<crevette_> de nada senior
<asac> crevette_: you didnt update maintainer field ;)
<asac> doing that now
<crevette_> oh true,
<crevette_> I did that in my version, but was lost ..
<asac> crevette_: also you forgot the bug in changelog ... doing that too ;)
 * crevette_ goes to hide him self
<asac> uploaded
<crevette> thanks a lot
<crevette> when a bug from a previous version is fixed in the developement version, what is the status of the bug I shoud set "Fix commited" or "Fix released"
<Ampelbein> crevette: "fix released" when it's fixed in the development release. You can use one of the standard replies from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Fixed%20in%20Development%20release%20while%20still%20existing%20in%20a%20previous%20release to advise the reporter on how to proceed.
<crevette_> thanks Ampelbein
<crevette> asac, please note for the bluetooth spec, the versions of bluez and pulseaudio for audio stream is important, I don't no if it worth mentionning it in the spec.
<crevette> latest pulseaudio 0.9.15 will only work properly with latest bluez versions, and the APIs are perhaps subject to change
<asac> crevette: right. spec says we should upgrade all pieces to latest
<asac> crevette: so latest bluez i would think as well
<crevette> I more "worried" about pulseaudio because there is less release
<crevette> You can have a bluez release each 2 weeks
<crevette> :)
<kenvandine> seb128: the empathy patch for messaging indicator support is still waiting to be sponsored, should that get uploaded before moving it to main?  or just do it after?
<seb128> kenvandine: we don't care either way
 * kenvandine would like more people to use it :)
<kenvandine> the more critical piece is the loudmouth fix
<seb128> I've not noticed it because it's on the universe list on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/index.html
<kenvandine> which should really also be fixed in jaunty
<seb128> will have a look to this one
<kenvandine> it is pretty important
<kenvandine> anyone with a contact in their list that uses a blackberry is hosed
<kenvandine> debian has already uploaded a fix too
<seb128> kenvandine: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/loudmouth seems to indicate it's already fixed in karmic?
<kenvandine> so i guess we should sync instead
 * kenvandine looks again
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> damn bug mail filtering!
<kenvandine> good
<kenvandine> nevermind
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> well...  we should look at it for jaunty too
<seb128> feel free to work on a SRU for it
<pitti> kenvandine: I wonder why telepathy-glib and friends don't need libtelepathy? At least I don't see a MIR bug for it?
<seb128> it's not impacting the default client so I don't feel it's high importance for us to work on
<kenvandine> pitti: oh... i missed that
<kenvandine> seb128: true...
<kenvandine> but jaunty users know we are switching, and trying out empathy
<kenvandine> jorge is getting lots of gripes :)
<kenvandine> pitti: i will do that now
<pitti> kenvandine: in the future, please use the standard MIR template instead of copy&paste'ing an ancient report
<seb128> I though they were recommending to try the 2.27 ppa version?
<kenvandine> not necessarily
<kenvandine> pitti: noted
<seb128> would be either to get the loudmounth fixed version in the ppa
<pitti> thanks! will review the other bits now
<seb128> and that doesn't prevent you to work on the jaunty SRU
<seb128> I'm fine sponsoring a debdiff I just don't intend to work on it
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> will do
<seb128> so if you do the MIR work that's all good, just ping me for sponsoring
<kenvandine> pitti: mind if i use copy and paste for libtelepathy? lots of the content will be the same :)
<Zdra> kenvandine: seb128: libtelepathy dep is only to keep ABI compatibility for libmissioncontrol-client
<Zdra> it is not used at all
<kenvandine> oh
<Zdra> IMO that's totally stupid because MC ABI never was stable anyway
<pitti> kenvandine: the standard MIR template also checks for user-visible strings, debconf, and lots of other bits which are important
<kenvandine> pitti: ok
<Zdra> kenvandine: seb128: When Empathy will be ported to MC5, libtelepathy will be totally dropped
<pitti> kenvandine: note that telepathy-glib doesn't actually need libtelepathy
<Zdra> hopefully that will happen before 2.28
<pitti> kenvandine: but I guess if telepathy itself is a daemon, that will need it?
<seb128> another rewritte?
<kenvandine> pitti:  telepathy-mission-control does
 * pitti doesn't understand the telepathy stack yet
<pitti> ah
<kenvandine> it is the only thing with a dep on it
<kenvandine> but everything deps on telepathy-mission-control
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> pedro_: ola!
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<pitti> kenvandine: also, please put MIRs into the wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReport/.. namespace
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> asac: since you have an overview about hal-info/modem prober for NetworkManager and connman/that other thing you referred to, maybe you can add the current status of those to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy ?
<pitti> asac: note that e. g. connman using hal is fine, since we don't install it by default
<pitti> but this page is used by the #udev folks as well, so it'd be nice to have a comprehensive list
<asac> pitti: sure. will check it out
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: robert_ancell saw why my program was segfaulting in literally less than 5 minutes
<rickspencer3> Seems he knows pygtk quite well (and the vagaries of threading with pygtk)
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: now we know who to go to :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: so what was it?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: exactly
<rickspencer3> I made the call to initialize threads after I created a window the used threads, but before gtk_main()
<rickspencer3> so I "sort of" initialized the threads
<rickspencer3> only I could do such a thing, and then think the problem is in a library I am using
<rickspencer3> the good news is that the power triaging feature should be ready in a day or two
<rickspencer3> I just need to talk to seb128 to find out exactly how he would want to change the bugs
<kenvandine> pitti:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReport/LibTelepathy
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: cool
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I updated the quickly spec. Didn't reread yet for typos but the content should be ok :)
<pitti> pitti_telepathy: ping
<pitti_telepathy> hello
<pitti> nice
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks; can you please create a corresponding mir bug and subscribe ubuntu-mir?
<rickspencer3> didrocks: great
<rickspencer3> I'll check it out later
<rickspencer3> didrocks: did you see someone else asked to join the quickly team?
<kenvandine> pitti: already done
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> ii  libtelepathy2                              0.3.3-2                                          Telepathy framework - old GLib library
<kenvandine> pitti: so i guess i have more work to do :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yes, do you ask him to join it? (I prefer people send an email too when they want to join as it gives bzr access)
<pitti> kenvandine: hm, the "old" sounds bad somehow
<pitti> kenvandine: currently reviewing the packages, indeed :)
<pitti> kenvandine: do you know which source ships the telepathy daemon?
<rickspencer3> didrocks: I did not, don't know who he is
<kenvandine> pitti: telepathy-mission-control
<pitti> kenvandine: in the MIRs you talk about the "telepathy server"
<pitti> ah
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I will send him an email so :)
<pitti> kenvandine: in general, I like telepathy; it's like gstreamer for chat :)
<kenvandine> yup
<kenvandine> it has a bright future :)
<seb128> re
<seb128> asac: did you read my question before?
<seb128> I got disconnected apparently but didn't notice
<seb128> or rather my IRC disconnected
<seb128> anyway let me know if you read the question and,or replied ;-)
<asac> seb128: nope. pleaes repost
<asac> didnt get your question (most likely got eaten on reconnect)
<seb128> asac: is installing plugins in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins correct nowadays?
<seb128>  asac: totem also do symlinks in /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins is that required?
<kenvandine> pitti: i would actually be fine not shipping telepathy-idle at all, it is a pretty weak excuse for an irc interface
<asac> seb128: i think we should keep both for now. though in the end mozilla will probably be it
<kenvandine> most irc commands aren't supported
<asac> seb128: it doesnt hurt at least
<seb128> asac: ok thanks
<pitti> kenvandine: not sure, pidgin wasn't much better, was it?
<kenvandine> seb128: opinions on shipping telepathy-idle?
<kenvandine> pitti: pidgin is far better :)
<seb128> no, but I'm not a reference, I don't understand that people use an IM as an IRC client
<kenvandine> and i am not a fan of pidgin for irc
<pitti> kenvandine: I didn't have -idle installed, but I did have -haze; I wonder why it doesn't support IRC through libpurple then
<seb128> but lot of people there seem to be using pidgin for IRC
<seb128> ask rickspencer3 maybe, he's using it for example
<pitti> kenvandine, seb128: right, both pidgin and empathy are pretty bad IRC clients :)
<pitti> but it's handy to have _some_ IRC connectivity on a live system/on our defautl client
<pitti> kenvandine: can it do /join, /msg, /query, and /close? With them you should get pretty far
<Zdra> pitti: empathy has only /msg and /me
<pitti> for the casual "ask the folks in #ubuntu for help"
<pitti> Zdra: it opens a new window for /msg?
<pitti> Zdra: ok, /close -> close window, /join -> has menu entry, so we could do without them
<Zdra> pitti: oh, no, it does not have /msg :p
<pitti> hm
 * rickspencer3 ears prick
<Zdra> but it has /say
<Zdra> !
<pitti> hm, never used that
<Zdra> it's useless
<rickspencer3> I think /me is pretty key
<Zdra> /command
<pitti> but /msg and /query as well
<Zdra> /say is only useful to prefix a command so it does not interpret it
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: I assume that you can use the telepathy GUI for /msg?
<seb128> if we want an IRC client let's install xchat-gnome again rather than telepathy-idle
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: let me try
<kenvandine> seb128: i am with you!
<Zdra> the idea is to have a xchat-gnome-like UI for MUC in empathy
<rickspencer3> seb128: kenvandine: I think our default IM client should have basic IM capabilities
<Zdra> but we need someone with free time to do the job
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yes
<rickspencer3> I'd rather not include both a chat client and an irc client
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: does it do tab completion on names?
<pitti> rickspencer3, seb128: I considered pidgin enough IRC capable to get to #ubuntu to ask for help (live system)
<rickspencer3> I mean nicks?
<rickspencer3> pitti: agreed
<pitti> if -idle meets that, it's good enough IMHO
<seb128> works for me
<rickspencer3> pitti: I'd like to be a tad more crisp for the requirements
<pitti> geeks who use it all the time won't use it anyway, but they can install xchat/irssi/weechat/whatever themselves
<seb128> ie, be able to join a channel and write things there?
<rickspencer3> but in general, I agree
<pitti> and I wouldn't like to install another IRC client by default
<pitti> most people don't need one, and we are tight on space
<rickspencer3> seb128: I also think "start a private chat", do "/me", and maybe a couple of other things may be important
<rickspencer3> pitti: aside from the space issue, it's confusing to include two
<seb128> what purpose do we think the default IRC client serves?
<seb128> being able to get IRC support
<rickspencer3> we are supposed to be making opinionated choices that makes things simple
<seb128> or being able to use IRC in decent ways, including notifications, private chats, etc
<seb128> because those are different things imho
<rickspencer3> seb128: yes to support
<rickspencer3> and I think we should define "decent" as "casual"
<pitti_telepathy> hello again
<seb128> hey pitti_telepathy ;-)
<rickspencer3> pitti is communicating with us using only his mind
<pitti_telepathy> hm, this doesn't even list the people in the room :-(
<rickspencer3> :(
<rickspencer3> is there a missing plugin or something?
<pitti_telepathy>  /msg is not supported
<pitti_telepathy> but it does do tab completion
 * pitti_telepathy sobs
<rickspencer3> pitti_telepathy: but kenvandine says you can msg via the GUI
<pitti_telepathy>  /me works
<rickspencer3> pitti_telepathy: try /nick
<seb128> pitti_telepathy: got my query?
<mclasen> pitty_telepathy: the missing people are a known (and fixed) bug, I believe
<mclasen> I reported that recently...
<pitti_telepathy> seb128's /query went through
<pitti_telepathy> mclasen: cool
<pitti_telepathy> but it's not obvious how to start a query from the empathy GUI
<pitti_telepathy> I guess that will "just work" once the people list starts working again
 * pitti_telepathy goes on with MIR processing
<seb128> seems good enough for what we need on the default install then assuming that will be fixed before karmic
<pitti_telepathy> seb128++
<rickspencer3> pitti_telepathy: seb128: agreed
<Zdra> pitti: contact list is fixed in master for IRC
<rickspencer3> seb128: you indicated that upstream was responsive, so perhaps we can use it for a while, and provide some targeted feedback
<pochu> pitti: seb128++ == seb129? ;)
<Zdra> pitti: just click in the contact list of your room and a private chat starts ;)
<rickspencer3> pochu: lol
<pitti> Zdra: rocking
<seb128> rickspencer3: Zdra, cassidy are upstream, and yes
<rickspencer3> lol
 * rickspencer3 waves
<pitti> well, this responsiveness alone makes it more than worth it!
<mclasen> Zdra: having a release with that fix would be cool...
<seb128> new 2.27 scheduled for next week
<seb128> I guess that can wait until then
<Zdra> mclasen: releases are planned: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven
<pitti> ah, the telepathy stack and empathy are officially part of GNOME now?
<pochu> empathy -> yes
<pochu> telepathy is an external dep
<Zdra> pitti: since 2.24, yes
<seb128> lool: the workspace switcher bug is a duplicate
<lool> seb128: Hmm ok, I searched but didn't see it; is it in another source package?
<seb128> lool: it's rather libwnck or compiz if it's somewhere open, could have been closed as lacking information or configuration issues too
<seb128> we get one of those bugs every few months since gutsy or something
<seb128> I tend to just close those as duplicate recently because I know I read similar description every now and then, I don't have the exact number though
<lool> It kind of makes the workspace switcher unusable in some configs  :-)   I tried looking into it some months ago, but I didn't understand what was happening in the Gtk+ resize code; I could reproduce it in a window though
<seb128> oh, you think it's a gtk issue?
<seb128> I was rather expecting a gconf key being set to something else than 1 where it should not
<lool> I don't think so, but rather an issue with the widget handling
<seb128> ie the number of workspaces or something
<seb128> that's the viewport, workspace mix which leads to such issues apparently
<seb128> I think it's purely a config issue
<lool> seb128: I'm pretty sure it's a widget resizing badly, but well not 10% sure; if you try launching a workspace switcher applet from panel-test-applets, can you grow and shrink the window?
<lool> I can only grow it
<lool> well actuall, I can grow and shrink it horizontally but not vertically; that's probably the bug
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I think mvo told me age ago about a gconf key to reset to fix the issue
<lool> seb128: Ok; perhaps I'm on the wrong track here then
<seb128> I really think the common cause for those issues is a grid layout in gconf which has a value different of 1 where it should not
<seb128> ie when using compiz you expect workspace = 1 and use viewports
<seb128> and in some case ie seems that workspace != 1 and that lead to such bugs
<mvo> lool: what is your /apps/compiz/general/screen0/options/number_of_desktops setting?
<lool> seb128: Oh I think I know what it might be now from what you describe: it looks like there are three rows of this 12 viewports setup
<lool> mvo: 1
<mvo> hm, that should be good then
<seb128> lool: right
<lool> mvo: Did you get my emails?  Did I miss anything I said I would send to you but didn't?  I have the feeling I forgot something
<mvo> lool: its all good, its me being slow
<lool> mvo: haha don't tell that to me; I'm the one who needs 10 days to send you a debdiff ;-)
<mpt> mvo, are you ok with being the "technical mentor" for our Season of Usability intern on the AppCenter project?
<mvo> mpt: sure
<mpt> As far as I can tell, that just means being available to answer technical questions about what is and is not possible design-wise :-)
<mpt> thanks
<mpt> rickspencer3, can you recommend someone to be the technical mentor for the Users & Groups work?
<mpt> I guess ideally someone familiar with the mechanics of user accounts, groups, setting passwords, PolicyKit, that sort of thing
<rickspencer3> mpt: this is for summer of usability?
<mpt> rickspencer3, Season of Usability, yes
<rickspencer3> mpt: robert_ancell I suppose
<mpt> ok, I'll ask him
<mpt> thanks rickspencer3
<pitti> seb128: would be interesting to get your opinion on bug 376186
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 376186 in malone "private bug implicit subscription" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/376186
<pitti> asac, calc: ^ and your's (you also do a lot of bug triage)
 * asac looks
<seb128> pitti: I probably said I would not like to be spammed by those by then but turns out I spend lot of time polling on the list so I would prefer to get email notification
<pitti> seb128: ok, let's collect some opinions on the bug then
<seb128> ideally being emailed when the bug gets over 3 duplicates would be nice though
<seb128> I want to know about frequent crashers, not about every random crash
<asac> pitti: commented. i think we shouldnt subscribe users to get this feature. rather launchpad should send mails to "also notified" automatically if they are in the appropriate group
<pitti> asac: yes, that's what Brian proposed
<pitti> seb128: bug gravity! :-)
<asac> yeah. so thats also my proposal ;)
<pitti> but that would be web-based again
 * pitti does a quick break until the meeting
 * asac too
<rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 11 minutes
 * asac waves
<seb128> desktop team meeting!
<calc> hi
<kalon33> hi :)
<bryce> hi
<rickspencer3> meeting time
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel on desk
<rickspencer3> pitti: ?
 * pitti waves
<rickspencer3> did awe make it back in time?
<rickspencer3> Riddell: ?
 * awe waves
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter: ?
<rickspencer3> pitti: shall we begin?
<pitti> sure
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-09
<rickspencer3> first topic: reviews
<rickspencer3> I got back all the info - so please schedule a time with me at your earliest possible convenience
<rickspencer3> I think Riddell and asac are already on the calendar
<rickspencer3> questions?
<pitti> rickspencer3: is that performance review?
 * asac checks calendar
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes
<rickspencer3> sorry
<rickspencer3> ACTION: All: schedule a time for performance review
<rickspencer3> next is a discussion topic
<rickspencer3> rickspencer3 proposes pulling the gimp from the CD
 * kenvandine seconds that
<pitti> admittedly I'd shed a tear when we do that
<calc> that might cause issue with scanning, esp if we go to gnome-scan
<rickspencer3> here's my thoguhts:
<rickspencer3>   * It takes up a lot of space that we need for couchdb, etc...
<rickspencer3>   * F-Spot has key features, like crop and red-eye removal
<rickspencer3>   * It's a power user tool, users shouldn't stumble into it
<kenvandine> calc: no, i don't think so
<calc> usually scanned images aren't good enough quality when first scanned in...
<pitti> but it'd give us 6 MB, plus another 20 when we figure out language-support-* stuff
<kenvandine> calc: perhaps :/
<asac> to some degree its nice to show "here, ubuntu even has a graphics program installed by default", but otoh i dont think its that useful for normal users
<calc> so we may want to throw out the scan program as well if do go ahead and throw out gimp
<rickspencer3> there's a potential issue with gnome-scan?
<tkamppeter> hi
<pitti> and it's a really "forefront" foss app
<calc> aiui gnome-scan actually more or less works as a plugin to gimp
<seb128> I've been pondering about dropping gimp for a while too now
<rickspencer3> asac: and pitti: make good points
<kenvandine> gnome-scan has it's own UI
<kenvandine> but
<kenvandine> also a gimp plugin
<bryce> pitti: these days there's lots of forefront foss apps...
<seb128> shame that we don't have a simple application to sketch or draw something quickly though
<calc> kenvandine: the UI doesn't let you do much of anything though, right?
<kenvandine> calc: assuming normal users will fiddle with gimp
<asac> what is couchdb (sorry if i missed this key app) ?
<kenvandine> lets you scan
<calc> kenvandine: as far as color correction, skew correction, etc?
<pitti> but if I were to pick the next app that we kick, it'd be gimp, yes
<kenvandine> calc: none of that
<pitti> asac: backend storage for U1
<rickspencer3> it seems to me that f-spot kind of made the GIMP less necessary
<seb128> pitti++
<pitti> (or the other way round :-P)
<seb128> <pitti> but if I were to pick the next app that we kick, it'd be gimp, yes
<seb128> ^ same from me
<rickspencer3> pitti: asac: it's not just for U1
<rickspencer3> generally, a default structured data store is a good thing
<rickspencer3> but U1 definitely would be a prime beneficiary
<rickspencer3> so, consensus seems to be that if there is still room on the CD, we may as well keep the GIMP?
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, the world uses sqlite or bdb, which we already ship
<pitti> rickspencer3: personally I wouldn't kick it "just because"
<pitti> only if we need the space
<seb128> same here
<asac> right agreed.
<rickspencer3> what about my point that it is a power user tool that is redundant with f-spot for most users?
<seb128> gimp is maybe not the most user friendly application but it has its users and is a well known opensource project
<calc> i had heard someone mention a lot of the disk space usage of gimp is its documentation? i may be confused though
<pitti> f-spot is not even close to a photo editor
<seb128> well if we consider that image editing is limited to photo
<pitti> calc: yes, 20 MB docs vs. 6 MB app
<bryce> could gimp be stripped down to a gimp-lite or something, e.g. removing most of the modules, palettes, etc.?
<rickspencer3> pitti: but for most users photo editor = crop, rotation, red-eye removal
<calc> pitti: perhaps we can get rid of the docs? lol
<seb128> rickspencer3: image != photo though
<seb128> do you import your screenshots in fspot?
<rickspencer3> seb128: right
<pitti> calc: we want to reorganize language-support-* a bit, but not sure whether we want to drop the English documentatino
<seb128> I use gimp when I've to resize a screenshot for example
<calc> pitti: ok
<rickspencer3> seb128: does not f-spot handle that?
<pitti> seb128: ... or for just about anoything else :)
<seb128> I don't import my screenshot in f-spot
<rickspencer3> this is true
<seb128> f-spot handle my photos
<rickspencer3> the "import" requirement is onerous
<pitti> in fact, gvfs-gphoto makes me not use any f-spot/gthumb etc. at all any more
<seb128> sort those by exif tags, etc
 * calc personally doesn't like apps that take over his data like fspot, itunes, etc, but ymmv
<rickspencer3> I wish that the gnome image viewer did cropping, red-eye, and annotation (like you could paint on it)
<ArneGoetje> I use gimp for scanning documents with my flatbed scanner.
<bryce> calc: same
<rickspencer3> we all know that GIMP is useful
<rickspencer3> the question is, does it belong on the CD
<rickspencer3> ?
<pitti> I'd be inclined to stop shipping the documentatin
<seb128> what problem do we try to solve?
<asac> if we have a good replacement for all important use-cases then no.
<pitti> and change it so that F1 leads to a browser with the online documentatino
<seb128> win CD space?
<pitti> it already opens a browser anyway
<rickspencer3> pitti: because it is so easy to use, no one needs to docs?
<rickspencer3> </sarcasm>
<seb128> reduce user confusion to have different applications to do a similar job?
<asac> but i would hate to have like 4 apps covering those use-cases. at best we have a single lean app that does all the main use cases
<pitti> rickspencer3: no, but not everyone might need them locally installed
<rickspencer3> seb128: both points
<seb128> if we need CD space I vote for dropping it
<rickspencer3> seb128: that seems to be the consensus
<bryce> rickspencer3: I would think from a larger view, that we ought to include as many applications (or at least, as most functionality) as possible on the cd.
<rickspencer3> not strong will to remoe it
<seb128> if we don't I vote for keeping it, it replies to some need we would not fit otherwise
<pitti> ^ seems that's the consensus then
<rickspencer3> bryce: except we should not have overlapping apps in terms of functionality
<seb128> well, I would love to ship a small gtk image editor easy to use with basic features if we had one
<seb128> do we have one application matching this definition?
<rickspencer3> seb128: lets build an image editor in quickly!
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> there's a sweet python image library
<rickspencer3> ok, I'll capture the POR as:
 * kenvandine thinks f-spot should have a edit mode without using the library
<rickspencer3> 1. keep GIMP unless we need room
<kenvandine> like it has a viewer now
<rickspencer3> 2. if we need room, try web documentation only
<seb128> kenvandine: can you resize images in f-spot?
<rickspencer3> 3. If we still need room, remove from the disk
<pitti> +1
<kenvandine> seb128: not in the viewer, on in the library
<seb128> +1
<calc> +1
<ArneGoetje> +1
<awe> +1
<kenvandine> +1
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> next topic
<rickspencer3> Blueprints, specs, burndowns
<rickspencer3> I suppose I should turn the mic over to pitti
 * rickspencer3 apologizes for not telling pitti about this topic before now
<pitti> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+specs?searchtext=desktop-karmic
<pitti> so, good job everyone so far
<pitti> we have about half of them approved
<pitti> please try to get your remaining ones drafted by next meeting
<pitti> I usually review them within 4 hours (or on next morning)
<pitti> the only outstanding review is for rickspencer3 to do :)
<rickspencer3> *cough*
<rickspencer3> in terms of burndowns, what is the timeline for getting that system set up?
<pitti> any questions about them?
 * rickspencer3 is about 5 seconds in the future
<pitti> FYI, I also did a "karmic crack summary" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<pitti> for burndowns we need to agree on how to define work items
<pitti> my proposal is to keep it very simple
<seb128> what do we call "burndown" there?
<pitti> add something like this to the blueprint's whiteboard:
<pitti> Work items:
<pitti> do foo:TODO
<pitti> do bar:DONE
<pitti> do baz:POSTPONED
<pitti> ---
<rickspencer3> so track on the white board, not in bugs?
<pitti> and then have the script parse them
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, that's the thing I'm not sure about
<pitti> rickspencer3: we could either transform the WIs to bugs and track the status there
<pitti> or just use blueprints exclusively
<asac> pitti: i would love to be able to add work items directly to the spec wiki pages and have a bot that assembles a central list
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<pitti> the latter is easier to set up
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<pitti> the former has the advantage that some work items aren't attached to specs
<rickspencer3> I would go with "easier to set up" in the meantime
<pitti> so the burndown script needs to be able to collect bugs anyway
<seb128> I've difficulties to understand what is "burndown" there and what we try to solve
<rickspencer3> so basically it would wget, parse, and pipe the info into the script?
<pitti> seb128: track number of open/done work items over time
<seb128> related to specs?
<rickspencer3> seb128: this is a graph that compares work done compared to work left over time
<seb128> or any items?
<asac> seb128: remember the workitems list with the chart we tried last cycle? the idea is to improve that
<pitti> seb128: to feature work in general, except bugs
<rickspencer3> seb128: I think related to specs
<seb128> ok thanks
<pitti> I think we should start with blueprints only
<pitti> and then extend the system to also track bugs
<pitti> and if we like it, we might go to change the bug states instead of the whiteboards
<rickspencer3> seb128: I'll send you a link to one from last team meeting when I find one
<pitti> rickspencer3: WDYT?
<seb128> rickspencer3: thanks
<rickspencer3> pitti: I think of bugs as different than work items
<pitti> rickspencer3: no, not "bugs against nautilus"
<rickspencer3> I see
<rickspencer3> you are right
<rickspencer3> (natch) ;)
<pitti> but "bugs against desktop-team-workitems" as a mere means of tracking status and assignee
<rickspencer3> pitti: agreed
<rickspencer3> I think that you are right that starting with the simpler system is best
<asac> so do i understand correctly that we will have some syntax to highlight work items in the spec wiki pages?
<kenvandine> +1
<pitti> e. g. I have a task for "speed up gnome-panel" which doesn't have a spec
<rickspencer3> asac: the white board, I think
<pitti> but it takes me about the same time to create a blueprint as it takes me to create a work item bug report
<pitti> asac: wiki page is another possibility
<seb128> pitti: you don't suggest creating a blueprint to speed up gnome-panel do you?
<rickspencer3> the white board seems meant to track status
<pitti> but whiteboard tracks the metadata/status already, so it would be appropriate; you disagree?
<asac> i think we can start with whiteboard now
<pitti> seb128: *shrug* why not; it doesn't need a wiki page, just a whiteboard, assignee, and short summary
<pitti> seb128: like "cache desktop file read, cache translations, speed up xxx", etc.
<seb128> yet another system to track, *shrug*
<seb128> I would rather use standard launchpad bugs
<pitti> well, you need to track your blueprints anyway..
<rickspencer3> I think it makes sense to start with blueprints, and then extend it to bugs, perhaps a hybrid
<awe> pitti: couldn't the script create launchpad bugs automatically?
<pitti> awe: sure, it could
<asac> pitti: if possible allow us to assign specific subtasks to someone else like foo@pitti:DONE
<seb128> I will follow what other people decide but I've a dislike for blueprints in launchpad ;-)
<asac> with the spec assignee being the default
<seb128> those are out of my workflow, not easy to sort of filter, etc, etc
<awe> seb128: +1
<pitti> asac: well, the purpose is just a cumulative status, we don't actually need to track assignees
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<asac> for me the main use case is to look at this list and see what tasks i have left
<pitti> but bugs are fine for me, just complicate the system somewhat
<rickspencer3> pitti: it seems that some people are more bug-centric and some are more blueprint-centric
<asac> (at least from the assignee perspective)
<seb128> I think blueprint complicate the system, we work on bugs usually and our workflow and tools are designed for those
 * kenvandine thinks bugs are easier
<pitti> for the people who prefer bugs, would you create those bugs manually?
<kenvandine> pitti: sure
<pitti> if not, it doesn't make sense to me to define the work items at one place and track them somewhere else
<pitti> kenvandine: but that's hard!
<kenvandine> pitti: problem is... we need some umbrella
<asac> i think making bugs mandatory is too heavy
<rickspencer3> pitti: is it so hard?
<kenvandine> so a way to group them together
<kenvandine> it isn't hard at all
<ArneGoetje> how would we file work items as bugs?
<kenvandine> we do it all the time
<pitti> s/hard/cumbersome/
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: I think just tag them "work-item" or such
<rickspencer3> could be time-consuming, yes
<ArneGoetje> I mean, file against which project?
<kenvandine> i think the hard part is organizing them... it would be nice to have a umbrella (blueprint) linked to all the associated bugs
<seb128> whatever needs being worked?
<pitti> you need to find the right project, right tags, set assignee, wait for LP, etc.
<seb128> changes land to ubuntu so their always concern an ubuntu component
<pitti> and link them to blueprints, etc.
<pitti> seb128: not true
<pitti> apport-retracer-enhancements
<pitti> xorg-testing-infrastructure
<seb128> hum ok
<pitti> help-stripping-in-soyuz
<pitti> compiz-bug-workflow
<kenvandine> LP isn't designed to be used for project management, i agree
<rickspencer3> kenvandine: seb128: awe: would you be willing to try the blueprint way?
<seb128> pitti: 1 example was enough ;-)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: sure... willing to
<rickspencer3> I think it would be much faster to get the burn down chart going
<rickspencer3> and then I could start sleeping at night :)
 * kenvandine misses jira :)
<seb128> rickspencer3: well, you are the one deciding there so sure, I will try what you say ;-)
<kenvandine> it was great at that stuff
<awe> rickspencer3: sure
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: we want you to sleep!
<rickspencer3> seb128: are you granting me dictatorial powers?
<pitti> and we want to look at charts pointing downwards to 0! :-)
<rickspencer3> because if so, my car needs washing badly, and also my roof ...
<rickspencer3> :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> rickspencer3: would you like to be granted dictatorial powers? ;-)
<rickspencer3> too much responsibility
<seb128> rickspencer3: joke aside I strongly dislike blueprint because they are paperwork usually and don't fit my workflow but I'm fine using those we already do for specs
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 really think we need a task tracking system
<rickspencer3> let us start with the blueprint method, with the understanding that we will be enhancing the system to accommodate more workflows
<rickspencer3> seb128: that's another option entirely
<rickspencer3> we could probably hop on some web app designed for this
<seb128> let's start with the blueprint use for now, quick and easy
<pitti> I do think we need to extend it to use whiteboard AND bugs
<seb128> we can figure better ways later
<rickspencer3> but that would be *yet another* place to track
<pitti> then seb128/awe can switch to bugs if they want
<rickspencer3> pitti: agreed
<bryce> rickspencer3: no more places to track please :-)
<pitti> bug TRACKer :)
<rickspencer3> can I say the POR is that we will create a simple whiteboard based system to start
 * kenvandine thinks LP should have task management added :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: yup
<rickspencer3> and that we will extend it to use bugs if desired?
<bryce> personally I kind of like the blueprint system, however I admit I've grown to not rely on it very much.  Honestly it provides little benefit that couldn't be replicated easily with bugs + a wiki page
<pitti> kenvandine: bugs against a special project do pretty much that
<kenvandine> pitti: mostly yes
<seb128> pitti: we need bugs against teams
<rickspencer3> pitti: do you have info you need? can we move on, topic-wise?
<bryce> maybe with lp going open source, if the blueprint system code is included, it could be improved and better integrated with bugs
<pitti> rickspencer3: fine for me
<rickspencer3> all? next topic?
<pitti> rickspencer3: do you own that?
<seb128> next!
<kenvandine> long meeting today :)
<rickspencer3> pitti: I think we own it jointly
<rickspencer3> lets discuss tomorrow in our call
<pitti> yep
<rickspencer3> I can do the work if needed
<rickspencer3> very related topic:
<rickspencer3> Bug hygiene
 * pitti gets the spray
<rickspencer3> by this I mean ... I would prefer it if bugs assigned to team members were bugs that were going to be fixed by those team members in the near future
<rickspencer3> some of us have lots and lots and lots of bugs assigned
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<asac> feel free to unassign me from everything ;) (assuming you have the script ready for that)
<rickspencer3> asac: seriously?
<seb128> I tend to assign me bugs I'm going to work on during the current cycle
<asac> well. i dont really use assignments atm for anything but priortizing bug mail.
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+assignedbugs should be honest and realistic indeed
<seb128> not sure what "near future" you envision though
<seb128> one cycle?
<bryce> rickspencer3: I generally use assignment more like a bookmark, for bugs I know that are either clear now how to fix, or that I really don't want to lose track of for whatever reason
<rickspencer3> seb128: what do you think would be a good time frame?
<awe> rickspencer3: what about the analysis phase?  ie. should a bug be assigned to someone that's trying to determine the cause?  then unassigned if it's too invasive, not possible to fix?
<pitti> both as a tool for yourself to track your work, as a means to say "no" to more work, and for release management
<seb128> rickspencer3: as said "current cycle" is my usual metric
<pitti> time frame> karmic beta?
<asac> and release team ... so unassign everything that isnt on release team radar maybe.
<pitti> "karmic"
<pitti> awe: that's fine
<pitti> if you have a bug which you realistically aren't going to work on, it's _much_ better to unassign yourself
<rickspencer3> let's start with seb128's definition of "near future" = current release
<bryce> I don't like the idea of using assignment for tracking my work, for a couple reasons...
<pitti> that way it's clear for others that nobody owns it, and that it's free for community involvement
<rickspencer3> awe: that sounds fine to me
<pitti> bryce: I'm curious, why?
<kenvandine> bryce: funny... that is exactly what i want to use it for :)
<bryce> 1.  many of the high importance bugs I work on get a CRAPLOAD of bug mail, and I don't want to be buried by it (e.g. the freeze bugs, the perf bugs...)
<kenvandine> and the definition actually:)
<seb128> bryce: what other way to track your tasks do you use?
<pitti> I find +assignedbugs a very valuable tool
<bryce> 2.  I work on a lot of bugs without wanting to *commit* to fixing them, until a patch is available and proven to work
<pitti> bryce: but that's a question of filtering, not keeping a realistic +assignedbugs list, certainly?
<pitti> 2. sounds like a case for subscription, not assignment
<bryce> pitti: filtering?
<awe> pitti: do you use milestones to denote bugs that are committed to being fixed?
<pitti> bryce: routing that bug mail to a different mailbox
<pitti> awe: very seldomly; only for the crucial release blockers
<pitti> awe: if I commit to fix a bug, I assign it
<bryce> pitti: well mail from assigned bugs goes to my INBOX (same as subscribed bugs)
<pitti> awe: conversely, if I say "I won't work on that", I unassign
<pitti> bryce: but if you are working on them, don't you want them?
<bryce> pitti: erm, you've seen that 500+ comment x freeze bug ;-)
<rickspencer3> I think that there is a legitimate need on the part of stake holders to be able to look at the current set of bugs, and know what is being worked, what is not being worked on, what won't be worked on, etc...
<rickspencer3> I suspect this will take some effort on our part to be consistent in how we handle bugs
<rickspencer3> there are too many ambiguous states right now that a bug can get into
<rickspencer3> this creates a lot of work and confusion
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<pitti> bryce: yeah, but most of it was just "look and delete" fortunately :)
<pitti> bryce: so, if the bug mail is a problem, my feeling is that this is a different problem than the assignment of bugs; WDYT?
<rickspencer3> bryce: for instance, the fact that you and seb128 and asac each handle bugs differently means that I have to know your idiosyncrasies to understand the "bugscape" and well as the status of individual bugs
<pitti> s/I/everyone/
<pitti> bryce: I'm curious, how do you track the ones you work on then?
<bryce> pitti: it may be a different problem, but if so we need a better way of managing it...
<kenvandine> i think it is important that everyone agrees on the state assigned, and i think the general user base thinks that means someone is working on it or planning to work on it
<seb128> rickspencer3: what do you try to track? things we are working on and things important for the next milestone I guess?
<seb128> so milestoned bugs and assigned bugs?
<rickspencer3> seb128: I think different people looking at the bugs have different needs
<seb128> ie what is the problem we try to solve?
<bryce> pitti: I usually use queries/reports heavily to identify bugs to work on, and maintain a todo list of ones I'm tracking closely
<rickspencer3> okay, I think we need a deeper dive on this than we will be able to get here
<bryce> pitti: I used to use 'assigned' as my todo list of things I'm working on, but the two problems I mentioned earlier lead to me stopping
<asac> i think we can agree that we shouldnt be assigned to bugs if we are not working on them
<pitti> seb128: we need a common workflow in order to work effectively
<pitti> first for everyone to manage workload
<asac> also we already agree how to properly mark bugs so they get on the release team radar
<rickspencer3> so let's cut this off, but pick it up next week with more definition
<asac> for everything else we should really ask ourselve what we are trying to solve (like seb128 said)
 * rickspencer3 sorry to have opened a can of works without a broom handy
<pitti> and second, if someone (release team, me, you) assign a bug to someone else, we need some commitment to get a reply, a fix, or an unassignment
<seb128> lol
<seb128> pitti: I don't think you can fit differently minds in a same workflow though
<asac> i think pitti's reason is valid. but that means: "assignment == commitment to respond" and not "fix"
<seb128> everybody has a workflow adapted to the way he,she is working
<seb128> or thinking
<rickspencer3> For my part, I strongly agree with pitti on this point
<rickspencer3> can we pick this up next week?
 * bryce agrees with seb128
<seb128> sure
<seb128> I'm happy to keep discussing that here out of the meeting too
<pitti> but if everyone has an arbitrarily different method, it doesn't help anyone either
<seb128> right, which is why we should start by stating what are the issue and what we try to solve
<seb128> ie "we don't have a coherent way to track what tasks are being worked right now"
<seb128> just "people work differently" is not an issue
<bryce> right
<pitti> "track tasks being worked on" is a very important piece here
<pitti> both for you and for anyone else
<seb128> yes, I agree
<seb128> I'm just trying to understand the scope of what you try to achieve
<rickspencer3> there is a set of problems, and we should do well to define those
<seb128> is that the only goal?
<pitti> bugs which have an assignee, and nto being worked on for years is obviously bad
<seb128> right too
<seb128> can we get a list of those issues
<seb128> then we can work on adressing the issues
<pitti> and if your +assignedbugs is 500 items, it's useless for you to manage your work
<seb128> ?
<rickspencer3> internal partners don't know what the status of bugs mean
<seb128> I agree with all that
<bryce> I would say that if the goal is to track what people are working on, there's probably much better ways than using bug assignment
<rickspencer3> users have unrealistic expectations about how bugs will be handled and solved
<pitti> it's not about users, it's about us
<rickspencer3> there is no way to assess the general quality of the project
<rickspencer3> individual engineers have no way to control their bug related work load
<seb128> let's defer this discussion to after meeting with interested people?
<seb128> and reschedule for next week?
<bryce> ok
<rickspencer3> etc...
<rickspencer3> seb128: right
<seb128> so we have a better scope next week?
<awe> +1
<ArneGoetje> +1
<rickspencer3> good
<rickspencer3> almost done
<rickspencer3> speaking of bugs, I see a slew of assigned *and* release targeted bugs for releases going back to dapper
<rickspencer3> should I be concerned?
<rickspencer3> (see wiki page for the lists)
<seb128> we should probably review the list and clean those
<bryce> rickspencer3: that happens a lot
<rickspencer3> this is maybe a little too close to the last topic
<rickspencer3> so let's move on?
<rickspencer3> next: Team Meeting: Eastern Edition
<rickspencer3>  * Luke, Robert, and I will be arranging a secondary team meeting to follow up from the main one.
<rickspencer3>  * This is designed to ensure that everyone stays up to date, without the need to disrupt their sleep.
<rickspencer3>  * Anyone else interested in joining, feel free
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: ?
<rickspencer3> this will be weekly as well
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: depends on the meeting time
<asac> what time?
<rickspencer3> asac: ArneGoetje: I left that to Luke and Robert to decide
<rickspencer3> I presume it will be in my evening, their morning, and your middle of the night
<seb128> depends of the middle of the night
<seb128> if that's around midnight I will probably join some of those
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: let's see what they come up with.
<seb128> if that's later probably not
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: seb128: asac: feel free to discuss with them
<seb128> anyway let's see what they pick
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> no
<kenvandine> nope
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> welcome to Karmic!
<rickspencer3> Jaunty is solid, Karmic will be cosmic!
<rickspencer3> an interesting release indeed
<pitti> solid> especially with the 965 bugs finally being fixed in proposed, *phew*
<rickspencer3> thanks all
<rickspencer3> pitti: it was solid anyway, as that bug was mitigated, but I agree, it will be even better when that works it's way to the desktops
<seb128> ;-)
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<pitti> thanks all
<ArneGoetje> thanks and good night
<bryce> thanks
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> ArneGoetje: sleep well
<seb128> so somebody want to continue on the bug workflow discussion?
<bryce> seb128: sure
<bryce> seb128: how do you track bugs you're working on?
<seb128> I assign those to myself ;-)
<bryce> every time?
 * pitti does that
<seb128> yes, I don't work on so many bugs
<rickspencer3> what else could "assigned' mean?
<seb128> things I want to track for a cycle or wait on upstream I use milestones
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/+assignedbugs?orderby=status  <- my daily tool to manage my work
<awe> seb128: +1
<seb128> I've 2 categories: the bugs I work on, and the ubuntu-desktop bugs that need to be solved for this cycle
<seb128> the first one == assignement
<seb128> the second one == team assignement + milestone
<seb128> ie "that's a desktop team bug to track for karmic"
<rickspencer3> seb128: what happens if the ubuntu-desktop bugs don't get fixed?
<pitti> if you wait on upstream, then the bug should have an upstream tasks, and you are subscribed
<seb128> rickspencer3: I update the milestone or unset it
<bryce> seb128: how do you define "bugs I work on"?
<seb128> rickspencer3: to reflect whether we still want to track the bug or if it missed the target
<rickspencer3> so the ubuntu-dekstop bugs are ones that you are signalling are valid, but won't get fixed unless someone steps up?
<seb128> bryce: things I will do myself and upload, ie "nautilus is ftbfs due to gtk changes"
<seb128> assignment means: ok, I will look at it and fix it soon
<seb128> rickspencer3: yes
<seb128> rickspencer3: that's my way to track "desktop-ish issues"
<awe> seb128: can't assignment also mean, i need to look at it and figure out what's broken first?
<pitti> desktop-team bugs is primarily a means of sorting bugs, not trackign work on it, right?
<seb128> that's sort of workarounding a launchpad bug or lack of feature though
<pitti> "team assignment" as such doesn't have a well-defined meaning
<seb128> pitti: no, it's a primary way to define things under a scope
<pitti> seb128: right, that's what I meant
<seb128> ie it's in the desktop team land
<pitti> yep
<seb128> I want to keep an overview on that land ;-)
<seb128> which doesn't mean I will fix everything
<seb128> but I watch what get fixed upstream, try to push to get those fixed, and look there for my next tasks too
<seb128> or for contributor tasks
<seb128> ideally launchpad would have a "give me all the milestoned bugs for the product this team is interested in"
<bryce> I think I wrote a script to do that query
<seb128> ie all the milestoned bug for the components listed on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
<seb128> anyway that's sort of orthogonal to the discussion
<seb128> bryce: cool is it online somewhere?
<bryce> seb128: how do you handle bugs where someone else asks you to look into the bug (perhaps they assign to you), but you do not have a fix for it on hand?  Do you simply unsub yourself at that point?
<seb128> bryce: how do you define assigned tasks and how do you track those?
<seb128> bryce: I try to look at it in a reasonable timeframe and unassign myself if I'm not going to fix it soon
<seb128> that's what pitti said about being honest about what you are going to do on it
<seb128> if you are too busy to fix it in the next month you can as well unassign and add a comment saying so
<seb128> so nobody is holding is breath waiting for it to fix a bug which is assigned to you
<bryce> yeah... I also unassign myself after a while, but I feel badly since they evidently wanted it fixed really badly.  But if a fix is not easily at hand, there's a limited amount of time I can afford to invest
<seb128> well, would you feel better making them think you are going to fix it soon for 6 month until they realize you are too busy for that?
<seb128> in such case I just milestone the bug to show I think it's important for this cycle and stay on the radar
<pitti> bryce: unfortunately urgency and time/ability don't always match perfectly :/
<seb128> but I un-assign myself at the same time
<bryce> seb128: I would say that the bulk of my day-to-day work does not involve "assigned" bugs.  Rather, I review lists of bugs looking for "targets of opportunity".  E.g., it is fixed upstream, or a patch is attached, or someone mentions a git id that fixes it, or there is an interesting comment.
<pitti> bryce: you don't work on fixes yourself usually?
<seb128> I do that a lot
<seb128> I tend to almost never assign myself bugs to be honest
<pitti> that "watching out" is a good case for subscribing indeed
<pitti> so for those you shouldn't assign it to you
<pitti> until a patch is available, and your task is to actually deploy it
<bryce> I grab the bug, work on it for a bit (usually no more than a couple hours), and then either it is fixed, or upstreamed, or I give the reporter additional tasks.
<seb128> good
<pitti> seb128, bryce: for you that actually makes sense, I think
<bryce> I don't bother assigning myself, because if it gets fixed upstream or if the reporter completes their task, it will reappear in my queries
<seb128> which means you don't have specific tasks assigned
<pitti> I'm actually much more concerned about people having 500 bugs assigned thatn people who have 5
<seb128> so you are fine getting some bugs assigned
<pitti> I don't mind the latter, but I do mind the former
<bryce> I do assign myself if it is something I definitely need to follow up on - like a bug affecting lots of people, or that a manager has asked me to look into specifically
<seb128> ie "intel 965 + compiz == freeze to fix for jaunty"
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so it seems you are in agreement with pitti and me on how to use assignment
<seb128> just ignore it most of the time and do your daily work
<bryce> pitti: yes I also work on some fixes myself, usually either packaging things, or patches for apport crashes, or quirks, or other "simple" coding tasks that rarely take more than a couple hours
<seb128> but for things you are really going to look at, ie the 965 issue assign the bug
<pitti> it seems we are actually in violent agreement then
<seb128> yes
<seb128> you need to talk to asac
<pitti> TBH I was a bit confused about the "bug assignment is not the right way to track bug assignment" thing
<bryce> occasionally I will work coding something more intricate but usually only in conjunction with upstream, and that work is usually outside the scope of a bug report
<seb128> he seem to assign himself all the "would be nice to get fixed" issues
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~seb128/+assignedbugs?orderby=status and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~bryceharrington/+assignedbugs?orderby=status look quite reasonable to me
<bryce> seb128, pitti: yeah it seems our workflows aren't that different
<bryce> I notice seb128 has exactly 12 bugs assigned, which I laugh because that's my target to keep my assigned list to ~12 bugs max :-)
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+assignedbugs?orderby=status has 115
<pitti> it's a lot, but then again, asac does get a lot of them fixed
<rickspencer3> asac is the crazy one :)
<awe> pitti: he should be able to assign some of those to me.  ;)
<seb128> yeah, seem we agree there
<seb128> I've the feeling asac use assignement as I use milestone
<pitti> right, that makes sense
<seb128> ie for bugs to look at for the cycle
<pitti> if asac is actually able to burn through those 115, it's a valid list, I think
<seb128> hum diner time
<seb128> bbl
<bryce> pitti: yeah and if you exclude the inkscape bugs (upstream work) and just look at my assigned ubuntu bugs, it is 9 :-)
<seb128> pitti: well then do we define it as a list of things we plan to do or things we are working on?
<pitti> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.htmlhttp://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/jaunty-fixes-report.html ->  asac fixed 75 bugs in jaunty
<rickspencer3> !
<pitti> so 115 seems a little too ambitious
<pitti> rickspencer3: ?
<bryce> pitti: regarding "bug assignment is not the right..."
<bryce> pitti: what I meant was that if the objective is to track "what is being worked on", as was mentioned earlier, "bug assignment" may not track that - like seb128 and I discussed, the bulk of our work is not around assigned bugs but rather a different mechanism, so assignments would not actually track the real work being done
<pitti> bryce: I concur (we have blueprints and work items, etc. for that)
<pitti> bryce: I meant "what's being worked on" in the bugs context
<rickspencer3> right
<rickspencer3> I would think it would track "bugs I intend to fix"
<bryce> pitti: no I also mean in the bugs context
<asac> pitti: as i said above, i didnt use assignment effectively in the past (just mail prioritization)
<rickspencer3> bryce: so bugs you are monitoring, you are working on, but aren't assigned
<pitti> bryce: my primary concern is "you actually work on assigned bugs", not "you have assigned bugs for everything you work on"
<asac> but i want to try again and think all assignments except those being release critical can be unassigned
<rickspencer3> pitti: well put
<pitti> asac: well, 115 isn't totally unmanageable; if you unassign some 40 which you aren't realistically working on, that should be fine
<pitti> but even if not,
<bryce> pitti: "you actually work on assigned bugs" - explain this more
<asac> ok i can go through them manually.
<pitti> it's still possible to visually go through a list of 115 and grab a thing to work on
<pitti> bryce: "you don't have bugs assigned for two years and never look at them"
<bryce> pitti: I'm trying to understand the motivation... is it just that we don't want to communicate to users that we are working on bug 123 because it is assigned to joe, when it's been sitting on joe's list for forever?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 123 in rosetta "There's no direct way to see the project info when translating it" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123
<bryce> pitti: or is the motivation that as a manager you need a way to track workloads?  Or a mechanism for driving specific bugs to a fix, in priority to other day-to-day work the engineer is doing?
<asac> pitti: this qa list seems to be "just" bugs targetted for release?
<pitti> asac: no, that was bugs we fixed through changelog entries during jaunty; part of the "bug squashing" effort
<asac> pitti: sure? i checked like 12 random bugs and all were targetted
<pitti> bryce: for me, the motivation is: (1) if you look at a bug and it's assigned, then it'll be worked on (with "work on" -> debug, fix, upload, or just commented and unassigned)
<pitti> (2) be able to manage your own work during the day and week
<asac> ok i think i found a "not-targetted" bug
<asac> all fine
<pitti> asac: I think you use targetting a lot
<pitti> so maybe it's just that
<asac> i tried random bugs :). anyway. all fine
<pitti> bryce: "driving specific bugs to a fix" is part of that
<pitti> bryce: e. g. if we earn a canonical-desktop-team bug, and I assign it to someone, I'd like to expect that you fix it, forward it to upstream, or unassign it with a comment
<pitti> bryce: (with "I" really being "any developer", ideally)
<bryce> pitti: ok, I think (1) is adequately covered and reasonably consistent across the team already... is that correct?  Or are improvements still needed with that?
<pitti> bryce: yes, I think so; during the meeting that seemed contentious, but seems it was primarily a misunderstanding
<bryce> regarding (2), I'm still a bit fuzzy...  like we discussed earlier, seb128 and my day-to-day workflow doesn't seem to fit too well with doing assignments; again I think if we want to manage or track workload, there may be other approaches that impose less overhead.  But maybe you should elaborate on your thinking since I suspect I'm not following
<pitti> bryce: I agree
<pitti> bryce: I basically do the same, just with different intensity
<bryce> ok violent agreement again :-)
<pitti> I am subscribed to some 500 bugs
<bryce> yeah I'm subbed to quite a mess myself.
<pitti> and if one of them gets a patch, etc., I'll review and handle it, and then assign it to me
<pitti> but I guess you spend 90% of your bug time on such "opportunities"
<pitti> while I spend 80% of my bug time on writing patches
 * bryce nods
<pitti> meh, got disconnected apparently
<pitti> bryce: would you agree that subscribing (but not assigning) such bugs is the preferred approach?
<bryce> yes, that's often what I do
<pitti> right, so violent agreement
<pitti> kthxdinner :)
<bryce> cya
<pitti> bryce, seb128, asac: thanks for the discussion
<asac> welcome
<asac> i am dropping out too for a while ... bbl
<seb128> bah, debian GNOME packages keep adding delta over upstream for no good reason
<seb128> pochu: any reason why you need to move the autostart file to usr?
<pochu> seb128: it has translations which change every upstream release
<seb128> and?
<seb128> how is that an issue?
<pochu> seb128: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-May/msg00305.html
<seb128> and why was it ok before and does it required diff over upstream now?
<pochu> because before they were in /usr/share/gnome/autostart/
<seb128> *shrug*
<seb128> there is quite some desktop in etc for several cycle
<seb128> I think we should just stop resyncing on debian, that's just not worth it, they keep adding stupid changes just because Josselin likes to do things his way
<pochu> if it's wrong, reply to his mail in desktop-devel-list
<seb128> I don't care enough to argue with him
<seb128> I just think it doesn't make sense for debian to run into diverting everything from upstream without waiting for a reply
<seb128> there is ton of recent changes not sent upstream or debian specific, debian will be the most patched distro soon where it should be nearer from upstream ideally
<pochu> well, you're right that we should wait whenever possible and make the changes upstream first, but that doesn't mean we should stop applying patches or proposing changes
<pochu> and waiting for a reply -> you know that's usually not possible, the policy even here is "forward it and apply it, we can revert later"
<seb128> right, there is just lot of recent random changes which are not really required but pushed quickly anyway
<pochu> so he forwarded it, but nobody seems interested...
<seb128> and without being forwarded upstream often
<pochu> if everybody doesn't agree but they don't want to discuss it...
<seb128> right, which means maybe he's not right if nobody agrees
<pochu> it's not that nobody agrees, it's that nobody cares
<pochu> which is different
<seb128> I'm not going to apply those changes in ubuntu anyway
<seb128> well, if nobody cares really that's because nobody sees that as a real issue
<seb128> so is it really worth the distro delta?
<seb128> we don't do those change and have autostart in etc for over a year
<seb128> and nobody ever complain until now
<pochu> we should probably discuss this in #gnome-debian :-)
<seb128> no, I know how it's going to turn
<seb128> Josselin is anti-ubuntu since the start and will be happy to do the thing in a way which we will not do only to annoy us
<seb128> he's switching all the python packaging for no good reason to his system too for example
<pochu> that's not him, it's everybody
<seb128> he started some years ago without good reason when nobody was doing it
<seb128> anyway I don't want to polemic on that
<pochu> well, pysupport is better than pycentral for a long time, and he maintains pysupport, so that sound like two good reasons to me
<seb128> I'm just saying that it's a shame that debian distro patch that quickly for things not required
<pochu> anyway, I don't really care about this, you don't need to sync what you don't want to
<seb128> pochu: "he imposes what is working on" is not really a justification to create not required changes on things which are working
<pochu> maybe, but there's still the other one
<kenvandine> pitti: where did you get the build failure for telepathy-glib, debuild or pbuilder?
<kenvandine> it builds locally for me... i will try with pbuilder too
<pitti> kenvandine: on the buildds
<pitti> kenvandine: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-glib/0.7.31-1
<pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27394651/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.telepathy-glib_0.7.31-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<kenvandine> great, a seg fault in the test suite when running on the buildds that doesn't happen locally
<kenvandine> oh... interesting... it does fail locally... but not during the build
<pitti> kenvandine: the previous version built, so it might give a clue to look at the diff
<kenvandine> i know why
<pitti> kenvandine: also, we could just retry the build
<kenvandine> the previous version didn't run the tests
<pitti> ah, heh
<pitti> kenvandine: does it fail on debian's buildds as well?
<kenvandine> dunno
<kenvandine> i have it failing locally now
<kenvandine> running the specific test
 * kenvandine debugs
<kenvandine> pitti: can you look at the telepathy-mission-control MIR again?
<kenvandine> make sure it is ok before i touch them all up?
<pitti> kenvandine: yes, will do (got the mail)
<kenvandine> thx
<pitti> kenvandine: you checked for user-visible strings? (uses gettext, etc.)
<pitti> kenvandine: looks good now
<kenvandine> it has no UI :)
<pitti> kenvandine: btw, did you know that on wiki.u.c. you can just write "Bug:12345" to get a bug link?
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> thx :)
<pitti> kenvandine: well "no UI" != "no user visible strings"
<kenvandine> ok, good point
<kenvandine> there is a cli program
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks for the updated review, I'll process it tomorrow morning
<kenvandine> but it doesn't appear translated
<kenvandine> i'll note that
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, that doesn't hurt
<pitti> kenvandine: I'm more concerned about things like _("Connected") or so, states that the library provides to GUI consumers
<kenvandine> none of that
<pitti> or standard error messages
<kenvandine> messages appear to be in the client
<kenvandine> ok, telepathy-glib bug filed upstream
<pitti> good night everyone
<kalon33> good night pitti
<asac> night pitti
<crevette> asac: around?
<asac> sure
<asac> crevette: bluez?
<asac> ;)
<crevette> it is for the patch http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=584857, I thought I had found but finally not ...
<ubottu> Gnome bug 584857 in general "[patch] support notification deamon without actions capabilities" [Normal,New]
<crevette> hmmm
<crevette> I found perhaps
<crevette> asac: I should use "if (g_list_find_custom(caps, "actions", (GCompareFunc)g_strcmp0) != NULL)" ?
<crevette> it's late, I need some sleep
<crevette> see you
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-10
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: hi rick
<rickspencer3> did TheMuso mention setting a meeting time?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: no, haven't heard anything about that
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: ok
<rickspencer3> the idea is to set up a desktop team meeting "Eastern Edition"
<rickspencer3> so I asked him to get together with you and find a time once per week that was mutually agreeable for the three of us
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: sounds good.  Do you have the IRC log for the previous western meeting?
<rickspencer3> I don't mind popping in one evening a week as long as it's not too late
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell: It's logged on the web
<rickspencer3> I haven't done the summary yet, and looks like I won't get to it today
<rickspencer3> (have a call in 4 mins. and then company for dinner)
<robert_ancell> Where is it logged?
<robert_ancell> OK, no problem.  Did you give TheMuso your preferred times for meetings?
<rickspencer3> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<rickspencer3> all is logged!
<rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
<rickspencer3> I was mentioning that desktop team meeting "Eastern Edition" to robert_ancell
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<rickspencer3> so could you guys pick a time that is not too late here, but reasonable for you two?
<rickspencer3> Other folks may attend if it's not too late
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: what suits you, I am quite flexible so can do most times.
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> you are both so agreeable, you'll never decide :)
<robert_ancell> I'm fine between 9am and 6pm Australia time.  I figure rickspencer3 has the strongest opinion regarding time!
<rickspencer3> well, just not too late in the evening for me
<TheMuso> right, that time frame suits me. :)
<rickspencer3> it's 10am there, right?
<TheMuso> I tend to start my day between 8 and 8:30AM.
<rickspencer3> hmm
<TheMuso> Correct.
<rickspencer3> if we do 9am on Wednesday
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3: is 1600-1700 your time good? That is 9am for us
<rickspencer3> that will be 4pm for me
<TheMuso> Works for me.
<rickspencer3> on the same day as the Western edition
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> gotta run
<rickspencer3> gotta call, but let's call this a plan
<robert_ancell> cya
<TheMuso> ok fine by me
<TheMuso> cya
<rickspencer3> Yingying_Zhao: o/
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: robert_ancell
<rickspencer3> I sent out the team meeting minutes after all
<TheMuso> heh ok.
<rickspencer3> gotta run
<rickspencer3> but if you have any questions, we can talk tomorrow
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<crevette> good morning
<pitti> I'm off for an appointment, back in ~ 3 hours
<seb128> hello everybody
<seb128> pitti: what did you do to the retracers?
<didrocks> hey seb128 o/
<didrocks> seb128: pitti is away for 2 hours
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> didrocks: ok thanks
<asac> hmm, the autoduper seems to dupe zillions of bugs now
<asac> like bug 193811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193811 in nspluginwrapper "npviewer.bin crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_alloc() (dup-of: 141613)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 141613 in nspluginwrapper "npviewer.bin crashed with SIGSEGV" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141613
<asac> its kind of a useless stacktrace, but still apport thinks its a dupe ;)
<asac> pitti: has something changed?
<asac> basically i am flooded with apport duping really old bugs
<seb128> asac: I asked first!
<seb128> asac: pitti is away for 2 hours apparently though
<seb128> asac: hey btw ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell: hey
<Ampelbein> seb128, asac: apparently the retracer removes CoreDump.gz from duplicate bug reports. Yesterday in #ubuntu-devel it was mentioned that this happens for privacy reasons
<robert_ancell> hi seb
<seb128> robert_ancell: how was your day?
<robert_ancell> seb128: reasonable useful, got g-c-c merged
<robert_ancell> working on inkscape at the moment
<seb128> Ampelbein: thanks, that I had noticed, I'm wondering why that has not been publically discussed or announced though
<Ampelbein> asac: 193811 wasn't duped by apport.
<asac> seb128: hey. so i am not the only one ;)?
<seb128> asac: I got 477 retracer emails during the night
<Ampelbein> seb128: Don't know why it has not been announced. Nonetheless I think it's the right thing to do.
<asac> yeah. seems its enough if top most method is the same
<asac> and the rest ?? ;)
<seb128> but they seem be mostly apport delete coredump.gz on duplicates as said before
<asac> ah
<asac> yeah.
<asac> that explains it
<asac> great.
<seb128> those have not been marked duplicates now
<seb128> seems pitti just did some cleaning round
<asac> just got scared when apport started to touch bugs with 5 digits ;)
<crevette> heya
<Ampelbein> asac: if some person thinks it's a dupe and marks it that way it's not apports fault ;-)
<seb128> which is fine but I would appreciate some earlier notice to avoid the "wtf" moment this morning looking at those
<asac> i agree. was just confused by the mail format
<asac> and yeah. giving heads up could have prevented me rubbing my eyes ;)
<asac> ArneGoetje: hi.
<asac> ArneGoetje: do you have any idea on what goes wrong with the mozilla exports?
<asac> maybe the "po" filenames have changed?
<crevette> seb128, for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/GNOME3, perhaps running gnome-shell in a clean gconf environment to not mess GNOME 2 would be something to have? I don't know if http://blog.fishsoup.net/2009/06/07/hacking-local-defaults-into-gconf/ would be feasible
<crevette> asac, doid you see the text I sent yesterday night?
<seb128> crevette: why would it mess with other applications settings?
<seb128> crevette: trying anjuta doesn't mess your gedit settings, those are different softwares
<crevette> I don't know, perhaps some gconf key values
<seb128> crevette: why would that be different?
<crevette> for mutter
<asac> crevette: yes. not sure what you exactly wanted an answer for ;)
<seb128> crevette: I doubt they write new software that destroy your user settings for the fun there
<seb128> crevette: give some credit to owen work ...
<asac> crevette: the GCompareFunc cast? yes, i think its right
<asac> (if it makes the warning go away ;))
<crevette> owen has my full suport :)
<crevette> asac, yep it does
<crevette> asac, what is the role of this cast?
<crevette> (sorry, my c is *very* limited)
<asac> crevette: for the compiler the signature of
<asac> int                 g_strcmp0                           (const char *str1, const char *str2);
<asac> compared to
<seb128> crevette: so to reply to your weird question I don't understand, I see no reason to start complicated gconf magic if there is not a real proved issue
<asac> gint                (*GCompareFunc)                     (gconstpointer a, gconstpointer b);
<asac> is not essentially the same
<asac> so casting tells the compiler to assume that you know what you are doing
<asac> e.g. typedef const void *gconstpointer;
<crevette> I seen some cast was used with (GFunc) for another g_list_* so I assumed it is okay
<crevette> I'll push the fix on GNOME git tonight
<crevette> seb128, It was just a bit "worried" about gconf weirdness between GNOME2/ GNOME3, I remember not good behaviour when I was playing with GNOME 2 on GNOME 1.x, but I'm certainly wrong
<seb128> crevette: GNOME1 and GNOME2 were different desktops
<seb128> crevette: GNOME3 is GNOME2 using recents api + some new softwares
<seb128> nautilus will still be the same, gedit too, etc
<asac> crevette: nice
<mpt> "It is unsafe to open âubuntu-uploads.ogvâ as it could potentially damage your documents or invade your privacy. You can download it instead."
<mpt> wtf, Epiphany, it's a video
<crevette> hmm, can it be possible to do crafted video to produce damage and execute commands?
<seb128> everything is possible, you can do crafted website for that too ;-)
<mpt> crevette, apparently so. I tried to open the video, and it logged me out.
<seb128> it's not really likely though
<seb128> mpt: using karmic?
<mpt> no, 9.04
<seb128> hum ok, I would still say that xorg crashed
<seb128> but it would have been less surprising on karmic
<mpt> ... And the problem's reproducible :-)
<crevette> seb128, X is supposed to be stabler in karmic than jaunty?
<crevette> I mean at this point
<seb128> crevette: no, that's why I say I would not have been surprised if that was xorg crashing in karmic
<crevette> ah yeah? sorry I misread
<seb128> mpt: xorg crashing, what videocard and driver do you use?
<mpt> seb128, it's Intel ... 965? 695?
 * mpt forgets how to look it up
<seb128> does it crash on any video?
<mpt> seb128, no, <http://video.ubuntu.com/uds/jaunty/notifications.ogv> works fine for example
<mpt> (Seriously, what's the graphical way for me to find what kind of video card this computer has?)
<seb128> weird
<seb128> (none)
<ArneGoetje> asac: the bug is in Rosetta, that's all I know. It's the database which has problems due to the message sharing transition. Therefor no useful imports and exports for now.
<ArneGoetje> asac: I'm working with the Rosetta guys to resolve that issue.
<asac> ArneGoetje: cool. let me know in case mozilla processor still does not work after the rosetta fix
<mpt> seb128, so would it be useful to report a bug about this, and if so, what's the best apport command?
<seb128> mpt: "this" being the security warning from epiphany or the xorg crash?
<mpt> the xorg crash
<mpt> "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel"?
<crevette> mpt, I would say that
<crevette> perhaps some folks on #ubuntu-x can help you
<mpt> ah, thanks, I didn't know of that channel
<crevette> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting
<mpt> ugh, and now Epiphany's given up on anti-aliasing text too
<seb128> mpt: ubuntu-bug xorg-server I would say
<mpt> ok
<crevette> the wiki page says "ubuntu-bug -p xorg"
<mpt> "Package xorg-server does not exist"
<seb128> mpt: do you have any crash mention in /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old?
<seb128> mpt: xserver-xorg sorry
<seb128> or "xorg"' should do
<seb128> wait
<mpt> seb128, no, there's nothing in there that looks like a crash to me
<seb128> mpt: no error at the bottom of the log?
<seb128> and nothing in /var/log/syslog or /var/log/messages either?
<mpt> Free list:
<mpt>  FREE Offset:0002c000, Size:000fe000, F.
<mpt> End of memory blocks
<mpt> That's the last three lines
<ArneGoetje> asac: will do
<seb128> mpt: no segfault mentioned?
<mpt> nothing relevant in /var/log/syslog
<mpt> nothing relevant in /var/log/messages
<seb128> mpt: ok, ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-intel
<mpt> thanks seb128
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> about the epiphany warning ... do you have the video url? is it public?
<seb128> I would like to give a try, epiphany basically has a list of safe mimetypes
<seb128> ogg should be there, I'm wondering if that's the "ogv" rather than "ogg" confusing it
<seb128> or if that's the server returning a wrong mimetype
<mpt> seb128, go to <http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/2009/05/28#2009-05-28-code_swarm> and click on "video"
<pitti> seb128: I cleaned up all the obsolete core dumps (some 8.000)
<seb128> pitti: you confused quite some people
<pitti> asac: not dup'ing, just deleting coredumps
<seb128> pitti: next time would be nice to email the list saying you are going to do that so people can delete the spam rather spend an hour going through to understand what's going on
<pitti> sorry, I wasn't even aware that it'd send bug mail
<pitti> gosh, it's way too chatty
<seb128> I got 477 emails this morning
<seb128> added to the 250 bug watch updates emails from yesterday
<asac> :)
<seb128> speaking about apport bug spam I would happily trade the emails we receive now about duplicates, incorrect retracing etc for emails about bugs which have been retraced correctly
<seb128> ie I want to know about useful bugs, not about all the cleaning done on the non useful set
<pitti> that's why I thought that people wouldn't like to get apport crash bug mail at all
<pitti> we could keep the duplicates private
<pitti> that would avoid the spam of closed duplicates, I think
<seb128> having access to duplicates informations is useful though
<seb128> but having a bugsquad member going through all duplicates to see if they have useful informations and mark some public is not optimal
<seb128> I tend to agree with asac, the real issue is that crashes should probably not go in the bug tracker by default, but that's not something we will change soon
<asac> \o/
<asac> one idea is to create a virtual crash package where all crashes are filed again
<asac> and then providing some way to access the retrace crash db
<asac> (which probably already has all the stacktraces)
<asac> what do you think pitti? what info is in that retracer db? could that be used to make stacktraces navigatable on the web?
<asac> (and sortable by dupes)
<pitti> seb128: well, I don't mind so much about them being in the bug tracker; I'm more worried about the bug mail spam, as well as LP's inability to hide them
<pitti> asac: the primary information is in LP itself; the retracer only has a DB with "stack trace signatures" for dup detection
<seb128> right, those issues are there because we try to use the bugtracker to handle things which are not really bugs or don't fit in the workflow
<pitti> well, they are bugs, but they inherently get a lot of dupes
<pitti> asac: getting _only_ the crashes has always been easy
<pitti> just search for apport-crash
<pitti> it's hard to get only the non-crash bugs
<pitti> we could keep the dupes private, that should kill the dup bug mais
<pitti> mails
<pitti> if that would help you, that's easy to do
<asac> i want to keep crashes out of bugs entirely
<asac> instead you want to create bugs if there is a crash that is interesting
<seb128> we have thousand of useless crash bugs sitting in launchpad
<asac> other projects like mozilla and google got this right and did their crashdb outside of bugzilla
<asac> and they only create bugs out of them if there is actually a way to reproduce
<pitti> asac: I'm not opposed to that, we just don't have it right now
<asac> or if suddenly a new top-crashers appears
<pitti> I'm not convinced myself that it would be an improvement, but that's just my personal opinion
<asac> pitti: yeah. so what info is missing in the current retracer db? signature is most likely the main thing we want (together with initial comment from reporter)
<seb128> what sucks is launchpad not being able to filter on !apport-crash
<pitti> asac: info for what?
<pitti> seb128: right, that seems to be the main thing to fix here
<seb128> you get your bug lists polluted by those
<asac> pitti: above i wondered why we cant use the apport retracer database (currently used for dupe matching) and make that browsable on the web
<asac> you said that it just has signatures ... which i think is actually the main content we want from crashes
<pitti> asac: what would that give you that you can't do with a simple LP search (by distro or per-package, and apport-crash tag)?
<asac> pitti: i cannot find stack signature elements
<pitti> asac: Stacktrace.txt attachments?
<asac> well. you cannot search that ;)
<seb128> the main issue is that launchpad query sucks
<pitti> oh, signatures
<seb128> you can't do "search bugs which have a Stacktrace listing this function"
<pitti> asac: the top 5 stack trace lines are in a comment, that should be perfectly searchable
<seb128> you would think
<asac> afaik launchpad doesnt search comments
<asac> just summary
<asac> and description
<seb128> the real issues are launchpad limitations
<seb128> but those are there for some years and they is no sign they will fix those in the next years
<seb128> at least I don't see any visible work being put on having search not sucking out of using google
<asac> also putting this into the crash db rather than bugs would change our workflow to more like a "lets pull in the gems from the crash db and make a bug" and not "lets push away all the garbage to find the gems"
<pitti> well, *shrug*, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=PyErr_PrintEx, or use google
<pitti> but do you really think that searching for particular pieces in crashes is the main problem that we have?
<pitti> (honest question)
<asac> no the main problem is that having bugs for every crash makes our workflow to be: "lets push away all the garbage to find the gems"
<seb128> pitti: that query works before the function is listed in the non debug stacktrace in the summary
<seb128> before -> because
<asac> also making our own webfrontend for a db will allow us to be more flexible and independent from launchpad features
<pitti> seb128: perhaps, google then :)
<pitti> asac: well, is it really that, or rather an excuse for not looking at crashes at all?
<seb128> but pitti has a point
<seb128> "what are we trying to solve there"
<pitti> anyway, of course we could go ahead and create a separate crash db
<pitti> but what would that give us, except for a year of work
<pitti> ?
<pitti> we want subscriptions, comments, we want to link them to upstream bugs, assign them to people, etc.
<pitti> sounds very much like a bug tracker to me
<pitti> we shoudl fix the shortcomings in searching/reporting IMHO, not rewrite the entire thing
<pitti> that would fix the immediate issues and keep the rich feature set that the bug tracker offers to us
<pitti> asac: well, how would a crash db look significantly different/
<pitti> ?
<pitti> with bug gravity or "hotness" we can find the top crashers, and if LP would grow a "hide crashes" checkbox, wouldn't that make the workflow much better?
<pitti> that might actually be achievable in a month's time instead of "two years or never"
 * pitti just tries to get some practical solution here
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> what I want is a !apport-crash filter
<pitti> yeah, me too
<pitti> seb128: and reduce the bug mail spam, too, I think
<seb128> can we put that high on the platform team wishlist list for launchpad hackers?
<seb128> do we still have a such list?
 * pitti notes that down to channel it through the management chain
<asac> having a negative tag search was requested lots of times ;)
<seb128> pitti: danke
<asac> basically what i i want to be able to look at the stacktraces of the top crashes without going through bugs
<pitti> one thing that we can do immediately is to keep duplicates private
<pitti> this avoids sending mail at all
<seb128> now for the bug email spam, either we mark things private which complicate triagging and access to the information
<asac> and also clicking on method signatures there and see crashes that have the same method (even from other packages)
<seb128> or we use special titles or something which allow easy client side filtering
<pitti> asac: if that's useful, we could provide access to the duplicate DB
<pitti> asac: a web UI will take some time, but if a CLI will do, that should be easy
<seb128> asac: why not going through bugs? those usually have useful informations
<seb128> I tend to filter apport-crash bugs by number of duplicates when I do that
<seb128> and go through the bugs, it's quick enough and descriptions can have useful details
<asac> i dont say that bugs are useless
<asac> i just say that the initial comment together with the stacktrace would help more
<asac> e.g. i look at a top crasher and see the stacktrace with all the initial comments
<asac> (and links to the bugs if i think it helps to ask something)
<seb128> "see the stacktrace with all the initial comments" is basically the bug page no?
<seb128> anyway it should be easy to use launchpadlib to do that
<asac> but most crashes are not easily reproducible (at least in mozilla world). but looking at a bunch of initial comments might help you to narrow down what is actually the reason for a crash
<seb128> rick's application already do a query on new bugs and list those in a pygtk interface
<seb128> you could tweak that to list apport-crash bugs
<pitti> top crashers sounds like a report we should be able to request from the QA team
<seb128> and make it display the stacktrace.txt there
<asac> seb128: the bug page? the maste bug only has the comment of that bug
<asac> if we copied the duped initial comments to the master bug that would work
<seb128> ah, I see what you want
<seb128> should be easy to do a small tool doing that though
<pitti> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/package/gt2dupes/compiz.html
<asac> i see a crash with dupes in firefox, users comment:
<pitti> something like that, for crashes
<asac> 1. i dont kmnow what i did
<asac> 2. i navigated to this site and hit the back button
<seb128> what asac wants is the description of all the duplicates on one page
<asac> right
<seb128> so you can read through quickly for useful clues
<pitti> that makes sense
<asac> exactly
<pitti> sounds very achievable with launchpadlib and some scripting
<asac> thats basically the view i would expect from a simple bug db (stacktrace + descriptions for all dupes)
<seb128> yeah
<asac> if thats in the bug its great
<seb128> it's not to far of what rick is already doing with the triaging application
<pitti> yeah, probably you'd rather wait for 10 minutes in the beginning to download all the stuff
<pitti> and then be able to quickly browse through it
<pitti> than to constantly wait for the web ui
<pitti> asac, seb128: so if you both agree that bug mail spam about closed duplicates is annoying, I'm going to make that change right now
<seb128> hum
<asac> well. personally i think writing ricks desktop app is much different to provide a webUI, but well
<asac> is not much different i mean
<seb128> what implication does it have on bug triagers work
<seb128> ie will it block people to work efficiently on bugs because they don't have access to informations?
<seb128> ie the "get the description from all duplicates" require to have access to those
<asac> pitti: with "closed duplicates" you mean keeping them private?
<asac> if so we definitly need to copy all descriptions to the master bug imo
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned that we trade spam easy to filter client side for manual bugsquad extra work
<pitti> seb128: right, but for an useful work you need access to the original bug
<pitti> since the dupes get all valuable information stripped (core dump, stack trace, etc.)
<pitti> asac: well, as private as the master bug, i. e. accessible to triagers
<seb128> right, but tomorrow the master bug is made public
<seb128> which means anybody can work on it
<seb128> all the duplicates are still private
<asac> pitti: currently we open up master bugs asap
<asac> at least i do that
<pitti> okay
<seb128> should somebody go through all of those to allow whoever is not bugsquad to work on the public bug?
<asac> if all dupes are still private that would hinder people to look at the other bugs
<pitti> ok, seems this is not that unanimous, so perhaps better to leave it like it is right now
<seb128> pitti: the concern is that flipping the master to public will not flip all the duplicates
<seb128> which means it's not easy to work on a public bug
<seb128> since you don't have access to all the informations
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's easy enough to put a small filter on the "apport retracing service" if you want
<seb128> I'm wondering if we could set custom titles when doing cleaning
<seb128> ie when you clean the coredump from duplicate
<seb128> so we could filter those emails only if we want
<pitti> right, you could ditch all bug mail from the bot
<pitti> this would kill the duplicates and the cleanup stuff
<seb128> ok, let's stay with what we have now then
<pitti> so, searching -> pygtk app, mail silencing -> filter rule to drop apport bot mail, non-crashes search -> needs to be fixed in LP
<pitti> does that fit as a summary?
<pitti> seb128: unfortunately (well, for this discussion) I processed my bugs mailbox to zero yesterday
<pitti> but when I'll get the next bunch, I'll update the Bugs/HowtoFilter page
<seb128> pitti: yes
<pitti> seb128: if you still have some of these, feel free to do it yourself
<seb128> will do
<pitti> I'm not sure whether they come from apport@piware.de or have another name
<seb128> the things is that some retracer emails are interesting to me
<seb128> could you customize the title in cleaning or duplicating cases?
<pitti> seb128: dup mails are trivial to find, aren't they?
<seb128> in fact the only ones I'm interested in are "[Bug nnnnnn] Stacktrace.txt (retraced)"
<seb128> those have new stacktraces
<seb128> "Apport retracing service <der.pitti at gmail.com>"
<pitti> ah, that address
<seb128> is the retracer email
<pitti> so it would be: 1. that email plus "Stacktrace.txt (retraced)" -> good
<pitti> 2. that email -> /dev/null
<seb128> for me yes
<pitti> personally I'm not even interested in the first
<seb128> I'm not sure how much other people are interested to know about bugs which have been retraced
<pitti> but well, that's why everyone can customize it to their liking
<seb128> right
<pitti> and I never look at duplicate mail anyway
<pitti> mutt marks them specially for me, and I just delete them
<pitti> color index             yellow          default '~b "This bug is a duplicate of bug"'
<pitti> muhaha
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, compiz crashing leads to a weird session hang while apport is working on it
<seb128> I was near to power down the computer
<pitti>  rickspencer3-afk: hm, so no blueprint love in launchpadlib; screenscraping it is, then
<pitti> seb128, asac, rickspencer3-afk: RFC: I added a proposed "work items" format to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting; do you think that's easy enough/suitable?
<pitti> empty status == "TODO" (we could also explicitly write "TODO", I don't mind)
<seb128> pitti: lot of DONE already ;-) The format looks good to me, no need to overload by using TODO
<pitti> so, it'd be /^work items:$/i, followed by one line of work item, ":", and {,DONE,TODO,POSTPONED}
<pitti> until an empty line
<pitti> and '' == 'TODO'
<seb128> good
<pitti> this looks natural, and is easy to parse, too
<rickspencer3> pitti: right, wget ftw
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, urllib.urlopen(), I presume :)
<rickspencer3> pitti: right, but it's the same thing
<rickspencer3> no worries, I've written plenty of screen scraping code
<rickspencer3> my problems are that I am not too facile with regex
<pitti> rickspencer3: and you'd grab all desktop-karmic-* from https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic ?
<rickspencer3> so parsing code can be a bit cumbersome
<seb128> re
<seb128> the linux scheduler is a piece of crap sometime
<rickspencer3> right, I figured I'd just extract the URLs from there, follow the links, and pull out the status, and save it
<pitti> right
<rickspencer3> then have a another program that reads that file and creates the chart
<rickspencer3> easy peasy
<seb128> no way to use the machine when you run out of swap, I've shut it down after several minutes waiting for a command to respond
<tjaalton> asac: where does tb get it's sounds from? there does not seem to be a way to disable them, when not running gnome at least
<asac> tjaalton: tbird 3?
<asac> uses libcanberra
<tjaalton> asac: no, 2.0.x in jaunty
<tjaalton> it starts pulseaudio
<tjaalton> but I don't know how to disable the sounds. it starts when you try to attach a file to a message, the file open dialog pops up and it spawns pa among other daemons
<asac> tjaalton: edit -> preferences -> General -> "When new messages arrive:" ?
<asac> uncheck "play a sound"
<tjaalton> asac: no the sound is heard when you open the dialog, or close it
<tjaalton> but I get no such sounds when running it under gnome :)
<tjaalton> same profile
<asac> tjaalton: which dialog ?
<tjaalton> attach-a-file dialog
<tjaalton> when writing a message
<asac> is that a gtk file selector?
<tjaalton> yes
<asac> then i would think its a gtk thing
<tjaalton> hmm ok
 * asac never heard sound when opening tbird 2 file selector
<kenvandine> should apparmor be getting enabled in karmic by default?
 * kenvandine just figured out apparmor was preventing cups from starting
<kenvandine> but only on one box... weird
<pitti> kenvandine: it's been enabled by default for ages
<kenvandine> hummm
<kenvandine> it prevents cupsd from running on my desktop
<kenvandine> and it isn't running on my laptop
<dobey> the canberra thing has silly sounds support
<kenvandine> pitti: cupsd was working until i rebooted yesterday
<pitti> kenvandine: dmesg?
<kenvandine> [176590.909239] type=1503 audit(1244641101.197:30): operation="sysctl" requested_mask="r::" denied_mask="r::" fsuid=0 name="/proc/sys/crypto/fips_enabled" pid=8975 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd"
<salty-horse> hi. any idea why the gnome menu's icon search algorithm can't find the icon for kdiff3? it's included in the package and is in a standard place: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/kdiff3.png
<pitti> kenvandine: hm, what's fips? anyway, please report it against cups and assign it to me, easy to fix
<pitti> kenvandine: if you do "sudp aa-complain cups", does it start again then?
 * kenvandine checks
<kenvandine> pitti: works now
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, please send current dmesg to the bug
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> (after aa-complain and startup)
<kenvandine> ok, so send everything in dmesg since i ran app-complain cups?
<seb128> salty-horse: what Icon= is used in the entry?
<salty-horse> Icon=kdiff3
<kenvandine> actually, it's already filed
<salty-horse> seb128, ^^
<kenvandine> pitti: bug 335898
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 335898 in cups "cupsd: Child exited on signal 6!" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/335898
<seb128> salty-horse: does moving /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache away fixes the issue?
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks, I grabbed that
<salty-horse> seb128, after moving it, should I refresh something?
<kenvandine> pitti: cool
<seb128> salty-horse: try to "touch" on the .desktop for the entry
<salty-horse> seb128, no difference. menu still shows the default application icon. btw the desktop file is in /usr/share/applications/kde4/kdiff3.desktop
<seb128> salty-horse: oh, 32x32 is not the correct dimension for menu items, it's 22 or 24
<salty-horse> seb128, so kde's menu standard is different?
<seb128> dunno what they do
<tjaalton> asac: fyi, unsetting $GTK_MODULES helped, somehow it used canberra directly
<salty-horse> seb128, I can find no mention of those dimensions: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html
<seb128> salty-horse: why would the icon theme spec dictate what menus are doing?
<asac> tjaalton: yeah thats gtk
<asac> tjaalton: not sure why and how GTK_MODULES is setup on kde
<asac> maybe thats a bug on its own?
<salty-horse> seb128, see the "Icon" category of desktop files: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html -- it mentions no specific dimensions and links to the icon theme spec
<seb128> salty-horse: why would a spec dictate what you do with your menu look?
<seb128> salty-horse: the goal of a specification is to define a format
<tjaalton> asac: it's set up in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/52libcanberra-gtk-module_add-to-gtk-modules
<seb128> salty-horse: theorically you could have zoom options for your menu look
<tjaalton> asac: and the guy uses fvwm2 :)
<salty-horse> seb128, ok. back to gnome. is it a good reason not to load any icon?
<seb128> salty-horse: do you have a 24x24 icon to load?
<seb128> salty-horse: rescaling a 32x32 icon to 24x24 often doesn't work, or is really ugly
<seb128> salty-horse: not there that's better than not displaying an icon
<salty-horse> seb128, nope. kdiff comes with in 16x and 32x variants
<asac> tjaalton: still interesting that GTK_MODULES gets set ;)
<salty-horse> then how about upscaling the 16x16?
<seb128> fix it to ship a correct icon for menus then
<seb128> try but that's often ugly too
<crevette_> can it be also a problem with the gtk icon cache?
<seb128> crevette_: no
<seb128> crevette_: we delete the icon cache first thing if you read the backlog
<seb128> deleted
<salty-horse> seb128, but it's "correct" according to spec. seems to me like the gnome implementation isn't flexible enough. (there's probably a good reason for that)
<seb128> salty-horse: having no icon displayed is correct indeed
<seb128> I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve there
<salty-horse> seb128, I actually moved it and it hasn't regenerated yet
<tjaalton> asac: well it's for every desktop, but maybe that should be narrowed down
<salty-horse> I'm trying to see the icon :)
<seb128> standard menus icons are 24x24 fix your buggy software to ship an icon with the correct format and it will work
<salty-horse> seb128, where is that standard written?
<asac> tjaalton: i think we shouldnt enable gtk modules that rely on gnome settings in DE's other than those that support to configure them
<seb128> salty-horse: you don't need an icon cache when it's not there you are sure it's not masking anything
<tjaalton> asac: yeah, I'll file a bug
<asac> great
<seb128> salty-horse: no, as I tried to explain you before standard are to describe format, they are not there to dictate graphical preferences to users
<seb128> salty-horse: you could have an option "zoom" for menus which let you choice 16, 24, 32, 48 icons for entries
<seb128> salty-horse: that would be a valid option, why a specification forbid you to do that?
<seb128> salty-horse: those are the standard sizes, if you want your application to work in flexible situations ship those that's what most softwares do
<salty-horse> seb128, I understand that. I'd like to know where is gnome menu's preference of 24x24 is documented. if I want to file a kdiff bug I need some more info, and I can't find it
<seb128> salty-horse: it's the value used, you want each choice to be publicly described in a official signed document on a website or what?
<seb128> salty-horse: read the code?
<seb128> but that start being ridiculous, why do you ask if you don't trust what people tell you?
<salty-horse> yes, I want it to be publicly described, as it should. I'm not saying I don't trust you, I want it to be documented. and if it's not, that's another bug I'll try and fix :)
<seb128> *as it should*
<seb128> gnome-panel code writer do write code
<seb128> there is no reason they should start keeping some journal of the code variable values online for no reason
<salty-horse> seb128, interoperability is a good reason, I think. I'll ask the gnome-panel peeps then.
<salty-horse> thanks for the info!
<Mark__T> tedg: any roadmap for indicator-applet 0.2?
<tedg> Mark__T: Roadmap meaning dates or features?
<Mark__T> tedg: maybe combination of both
<tedg> Mark__T: Don't have any specific dates other than the Ubuntu release schedule, WRT features we have the blueprint that we did at UDS.  Let me look up the link.
<tedg> Mark__T: If there are specific dates you need, I'd be happy to take them into consideration (assuming they're not tomorrow ;) )
<crevette_> asac, what is the relation of couchdb with mozilla, I've seen you just uploaded it
<crevette_> sorry for being curious
<kenvandine> crevette_: no relation to mozilla
<tedg> Mark__T: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/UDSKarmic
<asac> pochu: are you the right one to prod about eclipse?
<asac> crevette_: look at the changelog ;)
<crevette_> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey crevette_
<asac> crevette_: couchdb uses libmozjs ... which is a problem on its own. it still used the 1.8 libmozjs so i ported/hacked it to use xulrunner 1.9 now
<kenvandine> asac: oh weird
<asac> trying to fix bug 352968 finally
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 352968 in bfilter "remove xulrunner 1.8 and all left over rdepend binaries from karmic archive." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352968
<seb128> why can't bzr just push by default to the same location you used for the get
<seb128> grr
<dobey> seb128: or the same place you pushed to previously
<seb128> it does that I think
<asac> seb128: i think the idea is that if you work on a branch directly you use checkout
<asac> dobey: it does that
<seb128> I do sponsoring
<crevette_> asac, should I send a mail on ubuntu-dev to ask people with bluetooth device to test it?
<seb128> I do bzr get whatever is to sponsor
<asac> dobey: we.. it pushes to the location you first pushed ... unless you change that with --remember
<seb128> change the target to karmit
<crevette_> s/it/gnome-bluetooh/
<seb128> and bzr push and get an error
<asac> crevette_: not yet. we need to also update bluez i think
<seb128> then I've to figure the url again, copy it, etc that's ridiculous
<asac> crevette_: lets call for testing after we updated the whole bt stack
<crevette_> asac, 4.40 is supposed to work with it, myself I use gnome-bluetooth git master and it works fine
<seb128> asac: checkout and get are not the same thing?
<dobey> james_w: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/karmic/icontool/karmic <- does this look correct for a source package branch? :)
<asac> seb128: no checkout binds your branch
<james_w> dobey: tarball-in-tarball packaging?
<asac> seb128: meaning that each commit gets automatically pushed (so no more forget to push)
<asac> seb128: oh sorry. not sure about "get" ... branch vs. checkout are definitly different
<asac> but given that you complain about not remembering where to push i would think that "get" is like "branch"
<dobey> james_w: hrmm?
<pitti> I think he's just complaining about "bzr push" not having any default
<james_w> dobey: it looks like tarball-in-tarball packaging, but the rules file doesn't look like it copes with that
<asac> right. my answer was use "checkout" ;) ... which most likely is what he wants anyway
<seb128> asac: I don't want every commit to go online
<asac> but i agree that the pull branch should be implicitly the push branch
<dobey> james_w: i don't know what you mean by tarball-in-tarball
<james_w> so if you've no idea what tarball-in-tarball is then you've probably done something wrong :-)
<seb128> asac: I want get and push to be smart by default
<james_w> dobey: why did you commit a tarball to the branch?
<dobey> james_w: i was trying to emulate what the libnss-ldap has
<james_w> ah
<james_w> bad choice :-/
<dobey> james_w: and it has the debian dir, tarball and md5
<dobey> james_w: oh. bad example for the UDS session then :)
<james_w> because it uses tarball-in-tarball packaging
<james_w> yeah, I should have checked first :-)
<james_w> if you do "apt-get source libnss-ldap" you'll see the unpacked source package looks unlike most other packages
<james_w> what you want there instead is the source that's in the tarball, not the tarball itself
<seb128> james_w: is there a variable I can set or a config to change to get push to use the get location by default?
<james_w> seb128: nope
<james_w> you can "bzr push :parent"
<dobey> james_w: oh, so it should be branch_tag + debian/?
<james_w> but there's no config for it, or option to "get" currently
<james_w> yeah
<dobey> james_w: for things that are also in bzr already anyway
<seb128> james_w: ok ... thanks anyway!
<james_w> dobey: yeah, if you "bzr branch" your upstream branch and then add the "debian" directory to that, commit it and push it up you should have the right thing
<dobey> james_w: ah ok.
<james_w> I should write "bzr dh_make" or something
<kenvandine> james_w: you should!
<james_w> hey kenvandine
<james_w> thanks for working on that empathy patch
<dobey> bzr dh_make_me_some_toast
<kenvandine> james_w: happy to do it :)
<kenvandine> james_w: thanks for the first pass :)
<kenvandine> james_w: have you played with it?
<james_w> I have "bzr make-me-a-sandwich" already
<kenvandine> it is built in my ppa
<kenvandine> james_w: haha
<james_w> I haven't tried your updated version yet, sorry
<james_w> let me know if I can explain anything needed to fix it for the review comments
<kenvandine> james_w: ok
<kenvandine> i made some changes, like moved the config to the notifications tab
<asac> crevette: so wanna help getting latest bluez?
<asac> or are you saying that 4.40 is definitly good enough?
<asac> i think we need more recent bluez also for pulseaudio
<crevette> asac, no pulseaudio 0.9.15 should work with few latest version of bluez, I don't remember how the precise version but perahps 4.34
<asac> crevette: anyway. i would feel safer if we have latest upstream release ;)
<asac> Release of bluez-4.41
<asac> This release contains multiple fixes for the audio subsystem and makes the Bluetooth daemon itself more and more stable.
<crevette> asac, this is the usual message for each release :)
<asac> point is i dont want to ask people to stress test stuff if there  is a new bug fix release out there
<asac> especially audio which is flaky enough ;)
<crevette> bluez developpers follow the guidelines "release early, release often", and if you want my opinion, this is rather "release really early, release too often"
<crevette> :)
<crevette> but this is getting better and better, in jaunty I was not able to play sound to my bluetooth gateway, I had a lot of cut in the stream, now it is working seamlessly (with 4.40)
<asac> crevette: so you dont want to do the new upstream? ;)
<crevette> not what I said, to be honest I thought Mario Limenciello would do it :)
<crevette> Limonciello
<asac> ok i check with him
<crevette> is Mario working for canonical?
<crevette> after 4.41, we need to check delta with debian
<dobey> ugh. so uname -r doesn't really work so well in the build farm
<asac> awe: there?
<awe> asac: yea
<awe> asac: with a working computer...
<awe> ;/
<asac> great ;)
<asac> awe: what did you buy?
<awe> another macbook
<awe> now i'm stuck with the broadcom 'wl' driver for good.
<pochu> asac: not really, I was quite happy when I stopped being TIA ;)
<asac> pochu: could you do one last thing ... figuring out why we are not yet using xulrunner-dev :(
<pitti> rickspencer3-afk, seb128, asac: FYI, bug 81575; it's scheduled for LP 2.2.6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 81575 in malone "no way to search for absence of a tag" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81575
<seb128> pitti: \o/
<pitti> awe: ooh, new toy? \o/
<awe> pitti: yea...still trying to get everything working!  ;)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> tomorrow is a national holiday for germany?
 * seb128 needs a world national holidays calendar
<asac> amen
<asac> seb128: most likely only for the weak germans that consider themselves highly religious
<asac> so south/east germany
<seb128> lol
<asac> i dont have holiday here
<asac> bavaria has 10 more public holidays or so than we have
<seb128> ok good, I will not be alone working tomorrow ;-)
<asac> they celebrate even the second hick-up of jesus in his 6th live of living ;)
 * pitti hugs seb128 and asac and joins them for the Thursday workforce
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<asac> yay!
<awe> ahhhh...  german political correctness ( or the lack thereof ).  I luv it!  ;/
<pitti> asac: *chuckle*
<asac> sorry if my statement offended someone :)
 * asac install gjdoc to see where it stores its version
<XCP2> hi. there's a bug in xorg in the newer versions of ubuntu that has not been fixed. however, there is a PPA on launchpad that apparently fixes the problem (not in clean way, but it's okay for me). Now my question: if I apply this PPA patch and some time later there is an official ubuntu patch for this problem, or any other update to xorg, will and can this newer update still be applied, although I manually changed my xorg some time before?
<seb128> depends of the ppa
<seb128> don't install random package from random ppa if you want no surprise
<Ampelbein> XCP2: what is the version of the package in the ppa?
<seb128> if that's from the official xorg ppa that's probably ok
 * dobey hopes his first REVU upload is correct
<seb128> they are still using revu?
<XCP2> here's the link... https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/xserver-no-backfill ... it fixes a problem in xorg, which causes xorg to use up 6GB+ memory after a while and take it 3-4 seconds to maximize a single window, each time leaking memory..
<dobey> seb128: "they"?
<seb128> XCP2: try on #ubuntu-x for xorg question
<seb128> dobey: the motu team or whoever is using revu nowadays
<XCP2> Ampelbein: the version of the package is 'jaunty main'. if that's what you are referring to?
<dobey> seb128: i hope so. statik asked me to get icontool up on REVU for inclusion in karmic. and we'll have other packages to get in as well, that we need for ubuntuone-* packages
<seb128> they probably do, universe workflow has been based on it for a while
<seb128> I just don't see the point of the whole thing and dislike it
<dobey> ah
<seb128> wth
<seb128> mvo: !!!
 * mvo hides from seb128
<seb128> mvo: something is eating my ram and I though that was compiz but it seems I was wrong ;-)
<seb128> mvo: you can unhide
<mvo> *pffeeewww*
 * mvo crawls out from under the desk
<seb128> I would still like to know where my 2G of ram are being used when top list nothing excessive
<mvo> firefox ;) ?
<seb128> I had the issue 2 hours ago
<seb128> 2Go of RAM and 3.5G of swap eaten
<dobey> firefox, evolution <- i tend to find these to be blameworthy
<seb128> and the linux scheduler doesn't work enough to make you do anything
<seb128> 293m  97m  16m S    0  4.9   2:21.65 evolution
<seb128> and I've closed my web browser already
<seb128> 1047m  28m 7624 S    1  1.4   2:22.13 compiz.real
<seb128> the 1047m for compiz is weird though
<seb128> but that's only VIRT
<seb128> still
<seb128> mvo!!!!!!
<dobey> rhythmbox likes to get high on the VIRT list too
<seb128> mvo: why compiz is using over 1G of virt memory
<mvo> it should not use that much
<seb128> I knew I should have stayed on jaunty ;-)
<pochu> asac: I guess it would need to be ported :-)
<mvo> I supsect it might be a leak in the X server?
<dobey> 12690 dobey     20   0  488m 199m  25m S  0.7 19.9  96:45.89 epiphany-browse
<dobey> nice
<seb128> mvo: dunno
<pochu> asac: or upgraded to a newer version
<dobey> although, epiphany has other issues
<dobey> so eh
<pochu> asac: it's using xulrunner 1.8 right now
<asac> pochu: i know that its using xul 1.8
<asac> which has to change this cycle
<asac> otherwise i am not sure what will  happen
<pochu> there was an eclipse session at UDS
<pochu> as to what to do with it, it's quite outdated but the package is huge and complicated
<asac> pochu: was there anyone who seemed to take ownership of eclipse?
<pochu> the current codebase is a few years old
<pochu> I wasn't in the session, but I've read the notes
<pochu> sec
<pochu> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-karmic-eclipse-update
<asac> thanks
<pochu> so I guess if it's updated, the new code will use Xul 1.9
<pochu> but I haven't checked it
<hyperair> pitti: i noticed you were working on getting the fn keys stuff working for whatever's replacing hal for it. are the screen brightness keys included in that?
<pitti> hyperair: all the keys; however, my primary concern is the keys being recognized
<pitti> hyperair: I'm not working on e. g. getting kernel support for sony vaio backlights
<seb128> ok, enough work for today now
<seb128> let's try going swimming again ;-)
<Ampelbein> seb128: have fun swimming.
<seb128> thanks!
<hyperair> pitti: what about regressions? e.g. they used to work prior to dropping the 30-keymap-whatever fdis?
<pitti> hyperair: that's the kind of bug I'm interested in
<hyperair> pitti: that's the case, at least for me.
<hyperair> what information do you need?
<pitti> hyperair: please follow /usr/share/doc/udev-extras/README.keymap.txt and do 'ubuntu-bug udev-extras'
<hyperair> alright
<pitti> hyperair: thanks!
<hyperair> no, thank you for working on this =)
<hyperair> pitti: it doesnt seem to detect my brightness key O_o
<pitti> hyperair: hm, I translated the hal-info ones one-to-one
<hyperair> hmm maybe it's modesetting..
<hyperair> i'll try boot without modesetting and see
<pitti> hyperair: please check with /lib/udev/keymap -i
<hyperair> i did check
<hyperair> there was no response at all
<hyperair> at least, nor from fn keys
<pitti> if it brings the right key name, but doesn't do anything, then it's likely KMS
<pitti> hyperair: use findkeyboard
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> yes i used that
<hyperair> there was a response with every other fn key
<hyperair> just not the brightness ones
<pitti> hm, odd
<pitti> hyperair: maybe they are attached to a different input device
<hyperair> another? O_o
<hyperair> lemme try one by one
<awe> asac: do you have the bug # for the bug that includes the "disable background scanning patch" we discussed @ UDS?
<hyperair> pitti: what are the brightness key names?
<pitti> hyperair: brightness{up,down}
<asac> awe: yes. let me check
<hyperair> pitti: the dump from /lib/udev/keymap input/event5 didn't have anything of that sort
<pitti> hyperair: seems your kernel doesn't generate an input event for the keypresses then
<pitti> hyperair: can you please check with acpi_listen if you get acpi events?
<pitti> hyperair: and then "ubuntu-bug linux" with the acpi events and missing keys?
<pitti> hyperair: unless they are being sent through another input device, of course
<pitti> good night everyone
<Steven666> how do i make ubuntu desktop unhackible?
<crevette> asac: I discussed with Mario, he reviewed the delta between ubuntu & debian bluez package yesterday, and syncing is okay for him
<crevette> we just need to wait to have 4.41 on debian, or slap filippo to motivate him
<asac> crevette: ok. i already talked to him too
<MenZa> &w 61
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 - is there any packaging work to do over the next few days?
<seb128> chrisccoulson: hey, depends of the few days definition, new 2.27 due next week
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that should be good:)
<seb128> do you want something to do before?
<seb128> there is a tracker 0.6.95
<seb128> but I'm not sure if you track tracker 0.7 now?
<chrisccoulson> i've been looking at tracker 0.7 but its not ready for upload yet
<chrisccoulson> too much stuff doesnt work yet and there's still a lot of big architectural changes before 0.7 is released too
<chrisccoulson> i could do 0.6.95 for now
<seb128> ok so you might want to do the 0.6 update
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can work on that
<seb128> there is gnome-themes and bug-buddy to update to 2.27 too
<seb128> if you are bored, they are not high priority but need to be done at some point with resyncing on debian
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll take a look at those if i get the chance, and if someone else hasn't already done them
<seb128> I don't think anybody has been working on those and they are available for some weeks so they are probably ok
<rickspencer3> bryce: hey wiki King, is there a wiki page that I can point mdz to regarding -ati instead of fglrx for R500?
<bryce> ummm yeah there is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Drivers
<bryce> there isn't an in-depth discussion about it anywhere afaik; ATI had this under NDA for a long time so I didn't write anything up, but I'd be happy to explain in more depth if there are particular questions
<rickspencer3> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
<rickspencer3> ?
<rickspencer3> bryce: tx
<rickspencer3> I already sent mdz ^^^
<bryce> that h.u.c page looks pretty out of date.  A lot of what it says to do is no longer necessary
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> I suck
<rickspencer3> it seemed to be updated to include Jaunty
<rickspencer3> is w.u.c/X/Drivers, better?
<bryce> yep
<bryce> more authoritative anyway
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> I'll reply to my own mail :)
<bryce> help.ubuntu.com is such a hodge-podge of conflicting info, I mostly confine myself to the X pages in wiki.ubuntu.com as a more tractable set
<bryce> rickspencer3: ah yes the portion of that page you quoted is accurate.  Not sure who wrote that, but it's consistent with the Drivers page
<rickspencer3> bryce: ack
<rickspencer3> I sent mdz your link as well, so all is good
<bryce> cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-11
<djsiegel> rickspencer3: http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/10/one-hundred-paper-cuts/ what do you think?
<didrocks> morning o/
<pitti> Good morning
<crevette> good morning
<seb128> good morning everybody
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pitti
<crevette> heya seb128 & pitti
<seb128> lut crevette davidbarth
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks!
<seb128> ca va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va (il fait presque beau -> il ne pleut pas), et toi ?
<seb128> un peu pareil
<crevette> :)
<davidbarth> salut seb128
<seb128> ok, enough bug triage for this morning
<crevette> asac, one more new information for your bluetooth spec, obex-data-server is dropped in favor of obexd in next release of gnome-bluetooth (to be issued soon)
<asac> crevette: is debian on it already?
<crevette> and obexd is not in ubuntu
<crevette> and not in debian
<crevette> (hello by the way)
<asac> hi ;)
<asac> crevette: you know the gnome-bt version that will need obexd?
<crevette> 2.27.6
<asac> updated spec. thanks
 * seb128 kicks karmic xorg or intel driver
<seb128> something is eating ram over time there
 * soren concurs with seb128
<seb128> I knew that upgrading my laptop to karmic early in the cycle was not a good idea, next cycle I will do the usual "install GNOME unstable versions only keep everything else to stable" ;-)
<cassidy> the intel driver is worst than Jaunty's one ?
<soren> Really? I feel like i upgraded late this time. I usually "upgrade" as soon as the development release opens. I like the pain.
<pitti> seb128: what's broken now?
<pitti> oh, RAM leak?
<seb128> pitti: xorg eating my 2Go of RAM and 3.5Go of swap after some hours
<pitti> does that have an upstream bug already?
<pitti> doesn't seem to happen here
<seb128> no, I only noticed yesterday that it was due to xorg, before I just noticed that my system was swapping so much that I had to press the power button
<pitti> well, I'm on xorg-edgers, though, so newer mesa/-intel might not have that
<pitti> (ugh)
<seb128> and I'm not sure what informations would be useful
<seb128> I get "all RAM and swap is used after an undefined amount of time" is not really useful
<pitti> cjwatson mentioned a tool to display X.org resource usage
<seb128> will talk to the #ubuntu-x guys about it after lunch
<seb128> get -> guess
<seb128> well, I guess it's xorg
<seb128> nothing in top has very excessive ram use
<seb128> out of compiz which was using 1G of virtual memory
<seb128> and xorg 600meg
<seb128> so I guess it's xorg
<seb128> pitti: bug #312396, you did a typo in the tag and should it be set on verification-done? the user who unset the tag confirmed that the change is working
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 312396 in gvfs "Nautilus opens files over SSH as read-only when not owner." [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/312396
<pitti> seb128: it was -needed before, so I just restored it; if you think it's tested, feel free to flip it to -done
<seb128> pitti: see comment #25
<seb128> ok, will do
<pitti> merci
<crevette> asac, does your bluetoothStack spec covers also file reception?
<crevette> hmm, yeah, it is covered, so you should also talk about gnome-user-share which implement the bluetooth file reception, and gnome-user-share only relies on obex-data-server.
<asac> crevette: add your input to the Comments section on the wiki
<cassidy> pitti: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/384677 can I see build logs somewhere?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384677 in telepathy-gabble "telepathy-gabble main inclusion" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<cassidy> pitti: and I'd be interested in more info about "audio and video chat are pretty much completely broken"
<pitti> cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
<pitti> cassidy: and that one fails to build because of a test failure
<pitti> kenvandine will investigate that, I think he can reproduce it locally
<pitti> cassidy: as for the A/V, I tried that at UDS and at home (thus local wifi and DSL), and they just cause empathy to hang, and no audio
<pitti> cassidy: but these should get proper bug reports
<pitti> does that work for you?
<cassidy> yes
<cassidy> which empathy version were you using ?
<pitti> cassidy: (don't get me wrong, I do want the entire stack in main, just figuring out requirements and who will look after the packages)
<pitti> cassidy: 2.27.2-1ubuntu1, karmic current
<cassidy> should be ok
<pitti> cassidy: btw, do you know whether it's possible somehow to configure the audio device to be used?
<pitti> I'd like to use my USB headset, not the internal speaker/mic
<cassidy> if you use pulseaudio, you can redirect the stream using pavucontrol
<pitti> ah
<pitti> ok, I'll try that once I actually get a connection with empathy
<andreasn> can anyone help me with a screenshot of the tabs in Firefox using the Human theme?
<andreasn> I need to kill a bug
<crevette> hey andreasn
<andreasn> hello crevette!
<andreasn> crevette, my friend, I need some help from you
<crevette> I can hardly help you as I'm at work but shout my friend
<crevette> :)
<andreasn> can you use the Human theme, launch Firefox, open up a couple of tabs and screenshot that for me?
<seb128> andreasn: what distro are you using? ;-)
<crevette> andreasn, sorry not before tonight, during the day I work with only windows machine
<andreasn> seb128, Ubuntu, but I broke it
<andreasn> so I need a screenshot of a unbroken Human-icon-theme
<andreasn> but apparently it's impossible on The Internet today
<seb128> wait
<seb128> andreasn: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/firefox.png
<andreasn> seb128, thank you!!
<seb128> you're welcome
<andreasn> is kwwii on vacation this week?
<kenvandine> pitti: do you have a build log for your telepathy-gabble build failure?
<seb128> kenvandine: he said before that it's build-waiting due to the other telepathy-glib or something not building
<seb128> no?
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> maybe i missread
<seb128> kenvandine: juin 11 13:35:31 <pitti>	cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
<kenvandine> in the bug he said it doesn't build
<kenvandine> Package still doesn't build.
<seb128> right
<seb128> because it depwait
<kenvandine> ok, it doesn't say that
<seb128> maybe I'm wrong
<seb128> but that what he wrote on the chan half an hour ago
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> depwait makes sense
<seb128> juin 11 13:31:15 <cassidy>	pitti: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/384677 can I see build logs somewhere?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384677 in telepathy-gabble "telepathy-gabble main inclusion" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<seb128> juin 11 13:35:31 <pitti>	cassidy: they aren't failing to build, but waiting for libtelepathy-glib-dev (>= 0.7.31)
<seb128> juin 11 13:35:41 <pitti>	cassidy: and that one fails to build because of a test failure
<seb128>  
<seb128> that was the channel discussion
<seb128> to me it seems you should fix telepathy-glib first
<seb128> then we can see what's going on next
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> working on it
<kenvandine> just thought there might be more broken than i expected
<seb128> don't worry too much, fix that and we will see what comes next
<pitti> kenvandine: right, once -glib builds, -gabble will buildl automatically
<kenvandine> pitti: ok, good
<kenvandine> i was worried :)
<pitti> yeah, sorry for not being clearer
<kenvandine> i am trying to get a telepathy guy to look at that problem
<kenvandine> no worries
<Ampelbein> hi. i've been requesting sync for gnome-doc-utils, bug 385206. dholbach pointed out, that I missed a change, here the translations-template update (running intltool-update -p). But it seems to me that this change isn't necessary anymore, a diff between the (extracted) contents of the debian and ubuntu *.deb show no differences. Yet I can't find a hint in the changelog that the intltool update isn't necessary anymore. Can someone give
<Ampelbein> me a hint on where to look?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385206 in gnome-doc-utils "Sync gnome-doc-utils 0.16.1-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385206
<chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - did you figure out the answer to your question?
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: yeah, i did. daniel answered in the bugreport. it's about creating pot-file used for translations in rosetta. didn't know that before, now i do ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i was going to say. you wouldn't have noticed a difference in the binary packages you built, but if you build with pkgbinarymangler installed in your pbuilder you would notice that there is no template in the extracted package
<chrisccoulson> you can pass "--extrapackages pkgbinarymangler" to pbuilder to extract the template
<pedro_> does anybody knows why we're using wodim instead of cdrecord in brasero?
<Ampelbein> chrisccoulson: oh, ok. thanks, I think this is useful for future merges I do. I get it that this represents the buildd-environment more exactly?
<seb128> pedro_: because cdrecord is not opensource and wodim is a free cdrecord version made by debian
<chrisccoulson> Ampelbein - yeah, i think it does. you can also install pkg-create-dbgsym in your pbuilder to build the *-dbgsym packages too
<pitti> rickspencer3: hello
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: can you give me a pointer to your pychart script?
<seb128> pedro_: or rather the cdrecord license makes it not suitable for debian and ubuntu
<rickspencer3> pitti: sure
<pedro_> seb128: eek, ok good to know, thanks
<rickspencer3> let me add it as a branch to lp, and I'll paste you a link
<pitti> rickspencer3: I wrote the data gathering script yesterday (not sure whether you saw my mail)
<seb128> pedro_: you're welcome
<pitti> rickspencer3: depending on how complex it is, I could either integrate it into workitems.py or call it
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes, I saw the email, but haven't had a chance to read it
<seb128> pedro_: but wodim is basically a modified cdrecord ... any issue due to it?
<rickspencer3> I think it would be a simple matter to modify the pychart script to take a couple of arguments
<pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. create text output from sql commands, or just call pychart directly
<rickspencer3> I think it would be handy to call it, so that we can get consistency, but either way I'm fine
<pedro_> seb128: well it seems that most of the issues on brasero not being able to burn or giving issues after burn are due to it, but the problems are resolved using cdrecord , that's why i was asking
<seb128> where did you get that?
<chrisccoulson> mpt - i implemented your spec at http://live.gnome.org/LowDiskSpaceWarning now. Do you feel like trying it out at all?
<rickspencer3> pitti: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart
<hyperair> seb128: re bug #385801, if you don't mind, may i shorten "other people" to "others"? the string looks pretty long =\
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385801 in nautilus-share ""Write in this folder" is confusing terminology" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385801
<seb128> hyperair: the question was rather for the design team if they decide that's a hundredpapercut issue
<seb128> which I think it's not
<hyperair> hmm it's not?
<hyperair> seb128: i think the write in this folder isn't exactly confusing terminology, but on the other hand, the other half of the bug (Comments being in the middle of nowhere) is confusing.
<hyperair> s/Comments/Comment
<seb128> I've not even read this half, one bug should describe one issue and clearly ;-)
<hyperair> seb128: tell that to the bug reporter =)
<seb128> I don't care enough about the issue to reopen the bug in my webbrowser, feel free to comment if you want
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> launchpad's email interface ftw =p
<seb128> I would have to find the email corresponding to the bug, slower than clicking on the url there ;-)
<hyperair> hahah right
<hyperair> =p
<alex-weej> seb128: is the new gnome-volume control stuff planned for karmic?
<alex-weej> i've been using it in jaunty and it's been absolutely fine. maybe we should add a button that opens the hardware mixer though?
<seb128> alex-weej: the new one is fine if pulseaudio works for you ;-)
<seb128> alex-weej: which is still not the case on all hardwares
<seb128> alex-weej: it doesn't start on non pulse configs
<alex-weej> well given that we install pulseaudio by default (no?)
<alex-weej> shouldn't the non-pulse case be the exception?
<alex-weej> i.e. uninstall pulse, install old-volume-control
<seb128> what old volume control?
<alex-weej> the non-pulse one
<seb128> there is no non pulse set
<alex-weej> msry wat?
<seb128> ?
<alex-weej> i don't understand
<seb128> GNOME supports pulseaudio only in 2.26
<seb128> if you do that you can use multimedia keys in gnome-settings-daemon when not running pulseaudio for example
<seb128> there is not a second gnome-settings-daemon-alsa version
<asac> ArneGoetje: what was the nick/name of the romanian translator at UDS (was quite actively contributing)
<seb128> so going pulse only meant "screw you people if pulse don't work on your config"
<seb128> we might do that in karmic ;-)
<seb128> but I'm still not sure that's a clever move
<alex-weej> seb128: it's probably about time.
<alex-weej> seb128: we can't let legacy stuff hold us back, but you are right to be cautious
<seb128> you probably say that because pulse works fine on your hardware
<alex-weej> the reality is it will have been 18 month since we introduced PA as default
<ArneGoetje> asac: Adi Roiban
<alex-weej> and anything that hasn't caught up has had enough of a chance
<seb128> there is a difference between pulse by default
<seb128> and not letting people use alsa
<seb128> not to mention that the new GNOME capplet cut some feature that worked in the gstreamer version of the capplet
<seb128> ie the ability to configure ac3 and that sort of things
<alex-weej> seb128: exactly -- that stuff is for the "hardware mixer" or whatever you want to call it
<seb128> that's catching up, but running on new interface the cycle they are designed is not always optimal
<alex-weej> i've been resorting to alsamixer -c0 to turn on and off my obscure hardware options
<alex-weej> we just need a button in the sound prefs that launches the hardware controls
<mib_dg74kw7p> i have not been on linux in a long time, but how do i set uid or permissions to devices or view them too :/
<seb128> well, so what do you win in the new world compared to the mixer using gstreamer having those option and working with pulse and alsa?
<alex-weej> mib_dg74kw7p: #ubuntu
<seb128> and where is this hardware control dialog in GNOME?
<mib_dg74kw7p> thanks alex-weej
<alex-weej> seb128: you gain per app controls!
<alex-weej> i can turn flash down!
<asac> ArneGoetje: do you know if he has a nick?
<asac> or email?
<alex-weej> anyway i didn't come here to defend its case
<alex-weej> was just wondering
<alex-weej> 'cause i used to be a pulse-hater but lately it's been really, really good to me
<seb128> we might do the switch for karmic since that's a new technologies cycle
<alex-weej> was wondering if that was the consensus yet
<seb128> but that's going to make users unhappy
<alex-weej> fedora do it, no?
<seb128> those for who alsa is working better than pulse and that will have to go to debian or something to get sound working again
<seb128> fedora doesn't care about lusers
<seb128> they want to be a technology reference
<alex-weej> seb128: the g-s-d stuff... hotkeys work fine for me on my setup
<alex-weej> whether i'm using pulse or alsa...
<seb128> and if you own something which doesn't work in their world suck to be you
<seb128> alex-weej: that's because we did distro patch it to still use gstreamer and not pulse directly as upstream does ;-)
<alex-weej> seb128: same could be said of a piece of hardware that only has drivers for Linux 2.4
<seb128> alex-weej: you live in your own little world apparently, have a look to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bugs
<alex-weej> my little world rocks
<alex-weej> everyone should come join
<seb128> alex-weej: there is lot of cases where pulse create a not so good user experience
<seb128> latency in playing
<seb128> sound skipping
<seb128> anyway i'm not interested to debate that for hours
<seb128> we will probably follow upstream this cycle
<seb128> but it was judged not ready for karmic
<seb128> jaunty
<ArneGoetje> asac: adi@roiban.ro
<seb128> I our users appreciated to have the option
<asac> thx
<ArneGoetje> asac: he is also a memeber of the Ubuntu Translation Coordinators team.
<mclasen> seb128: I think thats a bit of an unfair characterization
<seb128> mclasen: which one?
<mclasen> that we don't care about users
<seb128> let's say we don't have the same userbase then
<seb128> we have lot of users unhappy about pulse and we have to listen to them
<asac> ArneGoetje: right. i am trying to get him connected with the mozilla translation coordinators because of the unique situation that RO translators face in GNOME vs. KDE/Windows
<ArneGoetje> asac: uh yeah... tricky problem...
<pitti> asac: \o/  http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/commit/?id=c9067d8fedf6f6f2d530fd68bbfca7ce68638d38
<pitti> what a hell of a commit
<james_w> hey pitti
<james_w> would it make sense to have a devicekit test day or similar?
<pitti> james_w: in which context, sprint or hug day or so?
<pitti> james_w: in general, people should report regressions as bugs, but if you have some ideas how to channel that, I'm all ears
<james_w> one of the test days that the QA team have been running
<james_w> where you can ask people to test a specific thing, with documentation and help in filing good bugs
<james_w> to try and look for regressions and quickly get them fixed
<seb128> I think it's still a bit early in the cycle for that
<seb128> pitti: what is david's (translations, community) irc nickname again?
<seb128> or somebody else who knows? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: spm
<pitti> sorry
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: dpm
<seb128> hum, no there
<james_w> seb128: oh, I agree it's too early, I just wondered if it would be a good thing to have later
<seb128> could be
<seb128> we have lot of things changing this cycle
<seb128> default application selections for example too
<james_w> true
<pitti> james_w: I guess before that happens I'd need to write some good debugging instructions
<james_w> yeah, that would be great
<pitti> james_w: I sort of hoped to get symptom based apport reporting working for that first
<james_w> even nicer
<james_w> I suppose "ask pitti" aren't good enough debugging instructions?
<pitti> james_w: doesn't scale so well :)
<pitti> besides, I'm quite new in that DK-{disks,power} business myself
<pitti> and I need to build up some knowledge there
<pitti> or convince Keybuk to take over DK-* maintenance :-P
<pitti> but for now it's on my plate
<pmatulis> how does one remove all packages associated with the ubuntu-desktop meta-package?
<pitti> pmatulis: something like
<pitti> sudo dpkg -P `apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop|egrep '^(Depends|Recommends):'|sed 's/,//g'
<pitti> ?
<pmatulis> pitti: ha ha, you serious?
<pitti> pmatulis: if you want transitive dependencies as well, try sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ... instead
<pitti> pmatulis: well, are you? :-)
<pmatulis> pitti: very!
<pitti> (first time I hear that request)
<pmatulis> pitti: will try, do you think there should be a built-in option?  i sure do
<pitti> pmatulis: ubuntu --self-destruct?
<pmatulis> pitti: i had a server install, then a desktop, now i want my server back
<pitti> pmatulis: --auto-remove normally removes dependencies, but we deliberately mark all packages as "not auto-installed", since many people just want to remove one or two
<pmatulis> pitti: what is a transitive dependency?
<pitti> pmatulis: if a depends on b, and b depends on c, then c is a transitive dependency of a
<pmatulis> pitti: ok
<SiDi> hi
<asac> pitti: guess that means we should get packages up from latest asap ;) to see how bad the regressions are ;)
<pitti> asac: hehe
<pitti> asac: btw, kay says that connman doesn't use hal
<asac> pitti: yeah. i think we need libgudev in archive soonish
<pitti> asac: like this?
<pitti> libgudev-1.0-dev | 20090606+1-1 |        karmic | amd64, i386
<asac> thats great
<asac> perfect
 * pitti keeps udev-extras pretty much at git head these days
<pitti> I just commit stuff there and merge, instead of fiddling with patches
<asac> hmm was lumped into udev-extras
<asac> thought it was a standalone upstream project
<pitti> asac: will be merged into udev soon, but that's a detail
<pitti> good night everyone, have to go
<asac> pitti: cu tomorrow
<Keybuk> pitti: I thought it was only on your plate because you wanted it there ;)
<maple> HELLO
<maple> hello everybody
<SiDi> hm, hello
<maple> ?
<pitti> Keybuk: I do (just kidding)
 * kenvandine1 is very unhappy... thinkpad just spontaneously turned off
<johanbr> kenvandine1: karmic?
<kenvandine1> yes
<kenvandine1> but not software
<kenvandine1> it won't turn on...
<johanbr> oh... :(
<kenvandine1> and no indicator that the power is even plugged in :/
<johanbr> I've had some problems with the new gnome-power-manager turning off my machine.
<johanbr> I thought you had the same thing.
<kenvandine1> oh... i haven't had that
<kenvandine1> i am glad i have a warranty
 * kenvandine1 digs up lenovo's contact info
<joaopinto> kenvandine, have you tried to remove the battery for some minutes ?
<kenvandine> yup
<joaopinto> :|
<joaopinto> my problems with thinkpads are usually solved with that :\
<davmor2> kenvandine: feel under the fan if it's hot I found the the pad of heatsink gel had died and was acting as an insulator.  I removed the heatsink cleaned of the cpu and put on some fresh gel fixed :)
<kenvandine> i am on the phone with lenovo... they got it back up, but need to run hardware diagnostics, something is bad
<kenvandine> had to discharge the compacitors to get it on
<kenvandine> this is not what i wanted to do this afternoon :/
<djsiegel3> Ok guys
<djsiegel3> what do you think of changing Appearance > Interface > Toolbar button labels to Icons only by default?
<SiDi> im for icons + text
<djsiegel3> What about just for nautilus?
<djsiegel3> The nautilus toolbar is almost identical to firefox, safari, chrome and other web browsers
<djsiegel3> and that default nautilus window is out of control
<djsiegel3> it's so complicated, with so many controls
 * SiDi uses Thunar
<djsiegel3> haha, ok, you don't count, smartypants
<SiDi> :)
<SiDi> actually youre right, ive got only icons in Thunar
<SiDi> but nautilus has far more icons, you have to make sure the icon set will look consistent enough for the user to guess what its for
<SiDi> which the text is a convenient way for
<djsiegel3> yeah, an icon designer friend just explained that so many toolbar icons are too vague
<djsiegel3> they need text
<djsiegel3> hmm, why do we have stop and refresh buttons in nautilus?
<djsiegel3> I have used refresh maybe once or twice
<djsiegel3> but it seems like a power user thing, to understand that your file browser is out of sync and to need to refresh
<SiDi> refresh can be practical on remote folders browsing
<SiDi> as for stop.. no idea
<Nafallo> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~nafallo/gajim/sru if you want to play with your patch before I try and get an SRU for it.
<Nafallo> kenvandine: actually. 0.12.2 apparently have 2 critical bugs, so a 0.12.3 is pending delivery from upstream ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-12
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: hi
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Hey there.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: I have a BZR question... I've made a branch lp:~robert-ancell/gdl/ubuntu which I was trying some packaging ideas.  Now I don't want these changes anymore.  How do I a) mege with lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gdl/ubuntu or b) delete this branch?  Which is more correct?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: If you want to delete the branch, you want to go to http://launchpad.net/gdl/+branches and delete the branch from there.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso: thanks, I assume I can do that from the command-line too?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Not that I know of.
<TheMuso> Sure you can delete the branch locally, but I am not sure about deleting it from LP on the command line.
<rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
<rickspencer3> thanks for your awesome interview feedback
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: np
<rickspencer3> I would like to put it on the wiki as an example of good quality interview feedback
<rickspencer3> would that be ok with you?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: BTW, I have a spec that I need approved. Its in the review stage, but hasn't yet been looked at. Do I need to do anything special?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Sure, go ahead./
<rickspencer3> in terms of the spec, who is the approver?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: It was foundations/Robbie, but the approver was changed to you. let me double check that.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: send me a link
<rickspencer3> the approver should probably be pitti
<TheMuso> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-gnome-speech-replacement
<rickspencer3> TheMuso: I set pitti as approver, and set it to "pending approval" which will trigger pitti to review it
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Thanks a lot.
<rickspencer3> he'll set it to approved, or make comments and send it back to "drafting"
<rickspencer3> n/p
<TheMuso> Gotcha, I know the process.
<kalon33> good night !
<Rammler1983> hallo, i can't log in after installing the latest ati driver
<TheMuso> Rammler1983: What version of Ubuntu are you using?
<Rammler1983> 9.04
<TheMuso> Rammler1983: Are you talking about the fglrx proprietary driver, or the free driver?
<Rammler1983> after updating with update manager in ubuntu and i restart the laptop the system freezes
<TheMuso> How does it freeze? DO you get a login screen?
<Rammler1983> no
<Rammler1983> after choosing
<Rammler1983> ubuntu 9.04
<Rammler1983> i get the logo
<TheMuso> Rammler1983: Ok. Do you still have the 2.6.28-7 kernel installed, and if so, can you boot that ok?
<Rammler1983> but it not sharp
<Rammler1983> no
<Rammler1983> i cant
<Rammler1983> i tried the alle the recovery options
<Rammler1983> and still not
<TheMuso> Hmm. If you boot with recovery mode, do you get any error messages at the time of the freeze?
<Rammler1983> no
<Rammler1983> it just freezes
<Rammler1983> with out updating everything is fine
<Rammler1983> but i can't use the effects
<TheMuso> Rammler1983: ok, so you can't boot at all. What kernel are you trying to boot?
<Rammler1983> the latest one
<Rammler1983> just a sec.
<Rammler1983> http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Gutsy_Installation_Guide
<Rammler1983> i used method 1
<Rammler1983> 2.6.28-11-generic kernel
<TheMuso> hrm ok
<TheMuso> Sorry I'm not sure whats going on then.
<didrocks> good morning
 * robert_ancell has made lots of enemies with his bug triaging in compiz.  Apparently LP stupidly is happily spamming everyone who is subscribed with duplicate reports (there are >200 of them)
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> pitti: guten tag!
<Ampelbein> seb128: good morning. I am unsure about your comment on bug 345727. I can't find a change done outside debian/* and apparently the patch still gets applied in the latest ubuntu-package. If I look at the diff introducing the fix (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24141917/seahorse-plugins_2.26.0-0ubuntu1_2.26.0-0ubuntu2.diff.gz) I see that it is properly made as a patch and in revision 6 of the bzr branch this change was applied.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345727 in seahorse-plugins "Seahorse-agent writes an empty ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf on first run, breaking email signing in KDE" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345727
<seb128> Ampelbein: the changelog entry is misleading then
<seb128> "  * libseahorse/seahorse-gpg-options.c:
<seb128>     - Copy gpg.conf skel instead of creating blank file
<seb128> "
<seb128> I've not looked into the source
<Ampelbein> seb128: right, got confused by that at first too.
<seb128> not sure why they claim the change is not in the current version then
<seb128> anyway that should be sent upstream in any case
<Ampelbein> seb128: I will do that.
<Ampelbein> seb128: and i can confirm that this works correctly in karmic: "mv ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf .." ; seahorse-agent produces a correctly copied skeleton gpg.conf
<seb128> grrrr at karmic
<seb128> so running away from my laptop for half an hour means I've a system I need to powerdown using the power button when coming back now
<Ampelbein> why is that?
<seb128> because the box does nothing
<seb128> blank screen doesn't react to vt changes, etc
<Ampelbein> hm, i have no problems at all, nvidia graphics. can leave for hours, still working after.
<pitti> ugh, I hope Robert used a script to fix the duplicates and didn't do this by hand
<seb128> which ones?
<pitti> all the compiz ones
<pitti> got some 100 mails
<seb128> we discussed duplicates of duplicates at uds and listed a tool to do the magic for that if that's what you are talking about
<Laney> what's the point of all this de- and re-duping of that compiz bug?
<Laney> it will be flooding lots of peoples inboxes
<seb128> Laney: not keeping a duplicate open I guess
<seb128> launchpad doesn't let you mark duplicate a bug which has duplicate
<Laney> I just wonder if the gain is worth the pain
<seb128> it didn't cost a lot either
<seiflotfy1> hey guys
<seiflotfy1> dunno where to bing this topic up
<seiflotfy1> but at UDS i talked to Bono
<seiflotfy1> i mean jono
<seiflotfy1> he had the idea of writing an application that teaches people who cant read and write to do so
<jpds> Haha, Bono :)
<seiflotfy1> sorry
<seiflotfy1> :P
<kalon33> ^^
 * seb128_ kicks karmic
<seb128_> if somebody talked to me recently please say whatever you said again, karmic just crash my laptop when I'm away for a while
<kalon33> it's karmic, just logical it is not yet quite stable ^^
<kalon33> but it doesn't work so bad here :)
<kalon33> hello crevette
<crevette> hello
<crevette> hey kalon33
<Nafallo> kenvandine: confirmed that there will be a gajim 0.12.3 soon.
<kenvandine> Nafallo: cool
<kenvandine> Nafallo: did you get a chance to see why notifications aren't called?
<Nafallo> kenvandine: nope
<Nafallo> kenvandine: I did however get a chance to package 0.12.2 :-D
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> still broken though?
<Nafallo> kenvandine: yes.
<Nafallo> kenvandine: are you sure it ever worked? ;-)
<kenvandine> yes... positive... i have screenshots somewhere :)
<kenvandine> in it's current state, at least last i tried, it doesn't even show the libnotify notifications
<Nafallo> ehrm. does for me.
<Nafallo> if you mean notify-osd stuff.
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> well then it should work with the indicator
<kenvandine> that had stopped working for me
<kenvandine> the method that does that wasn't even getting called
<Nafallo> the only part that works with the indicator is that I can see gajim in the list :-)
<kenvandine> i even tried in a guest session, so no local config
<Nafallo> hmm. weird.
<asac> Nafallo: can you please upload latest gajim crack now?
<asac> i am still suffering bugs i haveing filed a report for ;)
<asac> havent
<Nafallo> asac: I have it in my PPA. what's the bug?
<Nafallo> asac: also... I have it in the wrong ppa. let me fix that :-)
<asac> Nafallo: error dialogs jumping in my face whenever you (in particular) send a message
<asac> Nafallo: why not push to karmic?
<asac> i dont want to add yet another PPA ;)
<asac> unless you have snapshots in there or something similar sexy
<Nafallo> asac: oki. fair enough.
<asac> Nafallo: so why didnt you upload to karmic ;)?
<Nafallo> asac: because the publisher haven't ran yet?
<asac> Nafallo: ah so you already uploaded to real archive? nice.
<Nafallo> and ppa
<seb128> pitti: what do we do if our specs don't fit well with having a list of tasks?
<crevette_> hey seb128
<pitti> seb128: as I wrote, just split them up as sensible
<seb128> lut crevette_
<seb128> pitti: hum, I'm not sure how to split the GNOME3 one, that's virtually an hundred small tasks ... should I spend a day listing all those?
<pitti> seb128: e. g. the banshee one could be "package new version", "measure memory requirements", "write MIRs", "change seeds"
<pitti> seb128: no, of course not
<seb128> ie gnome-vfs has 37 rdepends in main
<seb128> libglade around 60
<seb128> etc
<pitti> seb128: packaging gnome/zeitgeist are obvious ones
<pitti> seb128: I guess you can't work on all 97 anyway? :-)
<seb128> no, but I'm not sure what are realistic or not so I'm having difficulties putting a metric on that
<seb128> that's why I'm asking ;-)
<seb128> I was going to go on the best effort metric
<pitti> seb128: yeah, this spec is very blurry
<pitti> seb128: you could just split it up by "drop gnome-vfs" and "drop libglade", together with the two packaging ones
<seb128> I can add "reduce gnome-vfs use"
<seb128> but that will not be DONE 100% in karmic
<pitti> seb128: just ignore them for now, I think, and just add zeitgeist/gshell
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks!
<seb128> I will add those as goal with a comment saying having a precise metric will not be easy
<pitti> well, since we don't have a precise goal, you can't have a precise metric :)
<pitti> but let's not worry about this too much
<pitti> having the "must have" facts in work items will suffice for the purpose
<pitti> WI don't cover all of our work anyway
<pitti> (bugs, mail, SRU, and whatnot)
<pitti> rickspencer3-afk: ping
<fta> anyone familiar with the nautilus internals?
<fta> i need to know which part is responsible for the smtp dialogue
<asac> i guess seb128 ^^
<fta> -nautilus+evolution
<crevette_> nautilus and smtp?
<fta> oops
<crevette_> ha
<seb128> what dialog?
<fta> SMTP
<seb128> smtp is what you use to send emails
<fta> between the client and the server
<seb128> do you speak about the sent bar? the preference dialog?
<seb128> the account details?
<asac> or the protocol impl?
<pitti> rickspencer3-afk: I got my work items parsing/CSV generation script ready
<seb128> anyway better to ask on #evolution on irc.gnome.org
<pitti> rickspencer3-afk: but it seems that the trend line in burndown.py is utterly hardcoded?
<seb128> they are responsive and probably know the code better, I'm hanging there too
<fta> seb128, asac: the protocol implementation, the headers sent by evolution are not good enough to use in my corporate environment
<rickspencer3> pitti: yes, totally hard coded
<pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
<rickspencer3> I couldn't figure out how to access x,y coords of elements in the chart
<rickspencer3> seems pychart just burns off the image, and then forgets about it
<seb128> fta: the communication is in evolution-data-server
<asac> fta: yeah the word dialog is then confusing because this usually refers to UI.
<pitti> rickspencer3: this is line.draw([(0,380),(725, 0)])
<pitti> ?
<rickspencer3> pitti: right
<rickspencer3> and line is actually an arrow :)
<fta> seb128, thanks. looking into that now.
<fta> ok, found it.. camel/providers/smtp/camel-smtp-transport.c  1520 lines, yeah! oh, joy!
<glatzor> Riddell, mvo: hello. I would like to push packagekit 0.4.8 to karmic.
<glatzor> Riddell, mvo: Unfortunately it contains an api break in the qt libs without a so name change
<glatzor> Riddell, so kpackagekit 0.4.1 has to be uploaded too
<ahe> is there a graphical frontend for x redirection, already?
<ahe> i'm looking for something that allows to explore the gnome menu of a remote machine and select and start programs for execution with display on my local screen
<ahe> another cool feature would be to start a remote desktop session with display in a xnest on the local machine
<ahe> if nobody knows such a tool i create a blueprint
<kenvandine> pitti: putting a blueprint into "review" sends it to the approver for review?
<pitti> kenvandine: yes
<seb128> what is the recommended python way to read a txt file on a http location?
<crevette> urllib2??
<crevette> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.google.com').read()
<crevette> I would say that, it is included in the default python install, but perhaps there is better?
<james_w> that's pretty good
<james_w> you need more if you want specific things with redirects, etags etc., but that'll work fine
<seb128> I don't need to read a web page, just a txt file on a people location
<crevette> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.google.com/anyfile.txt').read() would work too I guess seb128
<seb128> I was pondering copying it locally and checking the timestamp before downloading again
<calc> pitti: do you happen to know why bip seems to prepend + to every message?
<pitti> calc: I'm not using bip, I don't know
<calc> pitti: ok
<pitti> seb128: I was typing that 5 mins ago, but I got disconnected
<pitti> for line-by-line this is most convenient:
<pitti> for line in urllib.urlopen('http://foo'):
<pitti>     print line
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<kenvandine> pitti: new release of telepathy-glib do out and uploaded to debian within the hour
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> \o/
<kenvandine> with this bug fixed of course
<kenvandine> pitti: tp upstream is great :)
<jcastro> seb128: any word on tomboy 14.2 for jaunty? upstream fixed jaunty bugs and they are keen on getting it out to people
<seb128> jcastro: go for it?
<seb128> jcastro: I'm not working on tomboy but I'm fine having a new version sru
<jcastro> seb128: is anyone available to work on it? it kind of sucks when an upstream fixes our bugs and they don't end up back in the distro. (understand that everyone is busy)
<seb128> dunno but I'm sure we can find somebody easily next week
<jcastro> k
<seb128> it's just almost 6pm on a friday there
 * jcastro nods
<jcastro> I didn't mean right now. :D
<seb128> I will find somebody to do the update and do the sponsoring next week
<seb128> so we already have an updated and a reviewed in the loop and we just need sru verification
<seb128> which pedro can easily do ;-)
<jcastro> yeah it can just get frustrating for an upstream when they ship fixes and there's a lag there.
<jcastro> and then the users are bugging them about bugs they fixed already
<seb128> well we don't do stable version updates in stable for non lts versions
<seb128> if nobody comes to bug us about the update that's it
<pitti> jcastro: fine if someone from community wants to do the packaging and put it into jaunty-backports or so
<didrocks> seb128: gnome-python-destkop had a bugbuddy binding without depending on bugbuddy package (as it's in universe). With the package split (there is one package for gnome-python-bugbuddy), do I achieve the same thing? Having this package with the binding, but not depending to the universe bugbuddy package?
<pitti> didrocks: I think it'd make sense for gnome-python-bugbuddy to depend on bugbuddy
<seb128> didrocks: yes
<jcastro> seb128: don't we cherry pick fixes from stable gnome point releases?
<pitti> jcastro: only if they match our SRU criteria and someone requests them
<didrocks> pitti: but bugbuddy is in universe, gnome-python-desktop in main
<jcastro> ok
<seb128> jcastro: we do when we have issues which seem worth doing that, not sure if there is one on tomboy right now
<pitti> didrocks: right, but if there's a split out g-p-bugbuddy, this particular package could be in universe; I suppose we don't need it in main?
<seb128> pitti: packages that "import bugbuddy" will likely need patching need ...
<seb128> pitti: it's easy to install the binding and make it handle the case where bug-buddy is not installed
<pitti> seb128: for the g-p-d -> g-p-b dependency change?
<seb128> if you want to move the binary to universe
<seb128> g-p-bugbuddy that is
<didrocks> pitti: is it possible in Ubuntu policy? Having a source package providing bin packages in both main and universe?
<seb128> I think app importing it should depend on it
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> ok, so, I can remove the patch, adding the b-d and put the splitted package in universe
<seb128> well, will pychess start if pybugbuddy is not installed?
<seb128> or will it bail on the import bugbuddy which is not in a try statement?
<didrocks> seb128: I will try this
<hggdh> pitti, ping
<pitti> hi hggdh
<hggdh> hi pitti. I am writing an apport hook for Evolution; the main objective is to sanitise the BTs so that private data is masked. So... is there a way of reconstructing the crash file from a bug?
<hggdh> this will allow me to locally run the hook under apport-retrace, and check it
<pitti> hggdh: there's no CLI for it, but it's not particularly hard
<pitti> hang on
<pitti> hggdh: but if you just want to test a hook, why bother with uploading it first at all?
<pitti> you could just use the details expander to see what it would send, and then cancel?
<pitti> hggdh: problem is, there is a function to download a report, but it doesn't grab all attachments; just the ones needed for retracing and duplication
<pitti> but for your purpose you probably want all attachments
<pitti> rickspencer3: fixed the "work items" syntax on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bug-workflow FYI
<hggdh> pitti, yes. The problem is that I have to test it against bugs that do have the fields I need to mask out; on the other hand, I do not really need all attachments, just the BT and StackBT, so the function you have might be a good start point
<hggdh> if, of course, you do not mind sharing it
<rickspencer3> pitti: oops, I just stomped on your changes, I think
<pitti> hggdh: right, the curent function does fetch those
<pitti> hggdh: look at sr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/crashdb_impl/launchpad.py, APPORT_FILES
<pitti> hggdh: are those enough for you?
<hggdh> looking
<seb128> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html
<seb128> ^ first version, I've to make that clear and nicer now
<pitti> seb128: nice!
<seb128> but that list debian, ubuntu, upstream versions
<hggdh> pitti, yes, thank you
<seb128> and color lines for merges and updates required
<pitti> hggdh: python -c 'from apport.crashdb import get_crashdb; c=get_crashdb(None); r=c.download(338478); r.write(open("/tmp/report.crash", "w"))'
<pitti> hggdh: sorry, I know it's not nice, but perhaps throw it in a small shell script and call it apport-download?
<pitti> I guess I should add that to the apport package itself
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> If what I am trying to do succeeds, we might consider adding it to the hooks-utils
<pitti> seb128: what's the color key right now?
<seb128> red = new upstream version
<seb128> orange = newer upstream and in debian
<seb128> yellow = current upstream version but newer revision in debian
<pitti> great
<seb128> so yellow = to merge
<seb128> red = to upgrade
<seb128> orange is to merge and upgrade
<pitti> rickspencer3: np
<pitti> rickspencer3: fixed again
<pitti> ugh, today I got 7 new specs to review
<rickspencer3> I see, doesn't like my moin :)
<rickspencer3> pitti: I'm not much with the regex, but doesn;t the i in "items" need to be lower?
<pitti> rickspencer3: //i -> case independent
<pitti> rickspencer3: wOrk iTEMs will work as well
<pitti> rickspencer3: but *shrug* I can just extend it to digest = .. =
<rickspencer3> don't bother
<rickspencer3> thanks though
<rickspencer3> pitti: in terms of quickly, .quickly file is bad? no hidden files?
<pitti> rickspencer3: why would you want hidden files? that's confusing
<rickspencer3> that's fair feedback
<pitti> and I'm not even sure whether Debian Policy allows shipping hidden files in packages
<rickspencer3> what should w call it?
<rickspencer3> this would *create* a hidden file, not ship one
<pitti> quickly.conf
<pitti> ?
<rickspencer3> it would make "magic"
<pitti> rickspencer3: what does that file do?
<rickspencer3> this would be a per *instantiated* file
<rickspencer3> it is a container for information about a particular project
<rickspencer3> so if I do:
<rickspencer3> $quickly new ubuntu-project birds
<rickspencer3> this would create a project called "birds"
<rickspencer3> in that directory called "birds" is a file that contains information that quickly needs, most importantly the template that created it
<rickspencer3> so it would have:
<rickspencer3> template = ubuntu-project
<rickspencer3> but you could imagine extended it
<rickspencer3> currently this file is .quickly
<rickspencer3> but perhaps naming it something more descriptive and making it visible makes sense
<rickspencer3> didrocks: ^^^^
<rickspencer3> proj
<rickspencer3> proj.conf
<rickspencer3> quickly.proj
<rickspencer3> birds.proj
<rickspencer3> ???
<rickspencer3> birds.quickly
<pitti> rickspencer3: I wouldn't make the name project specific
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yes ? :)
<pitti> quickly.conf is easy to find, and similarly static than "Makefile"
<rickspencer3> why not (out of curiousity?)
<pitti> (IMHO)
<didrocks> (backlogging)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: discussing the naming of ".quickly"
<pitti> rickspencer3: well, you could parse *.conf and decide which ones are for quickly, but what happens if you have several?
<rickspencer3> does quickly.conf not suggest that you are configuring quickly itself, rather than the app you are creating?
<pitti> well, "Makefile" doesn't configure make itself, just how to use make
<rickspencer3> if it's birds.quickly, it would be quite easy to find, and the meaning of the file may be quite clear to users
<dobey> is '.quickly' a desktop file?
<didrocks> pitti: the new spec revision is more verbose about this .quickly file
<rickspencer3> right, but this is a different user (not that I'm disagreeing)
<pitti> rickspencer3: does it make sense to have several?
<rickspencer3> pitti: not really
<rickspencer3> I guess RoR names all their files the same, not per project
<pitti> rickspencer3: that's what I thought, too
<didrocks> so, .quickly file seems good, no? :)
<pitti> so why not call it "quickly.conf" then? then you can't have two
<rickspencer3> didrocks: I think making it hidden is not optimal
<didrocks> pitti: I think this is an internal quickly function. The user doesn't have to change it
<didrocks> rickspencer3: see above :)
<didrocks> my purpose is to manipulate it by quickly commands
<didrocks> so, no user direct interaction. (like .bzr folder in bzr branch)
<pitti> well, it's your baby, but personally I find hidden files very confusing
<pitti> it's way too easy to miss them when producing tarballs, backups, packages, etc.
<rickspencer3> pitti: may we leave it .quickly until we get some user feedback?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3: i agree with pitti
<rickspencer3> I think didrocks gets to decide
<rickspencer3> :)
<pitti> didrocks: you don't tar up .bzr/ and mail it to a friend
<rickspencer3> you should rather quickly deb
<rickspencer3> :)
<didrocks> no, I just wait for "professional feedback", so we can make it quickly.conf
<rickspencer3> pitti: will you approve the spec if I leave this an open issue?
<didrocks> I'm juste afraid quickly user won't understand it and remove it
<didrocks> just*
<pitti> rickspencer3: sure, but I wanted to mention it and point out the potential traps
<rickspencer3> yes
<pitti> and be aware that it's hard to change afterwards
<rickspencer3> I don't think we need to block on it now though
<pitti> and it'd be the first build system which relies on hidden files
<rickspencer3> I'm tending to agree with pitti at this point, and am wondering whether having a simple to edit configuration file might be a good thing
<rickspencer3> though I still like birds.quickly
<didrocks> pitti: I don't see really any difference with .quickly and .bzr-builddeb
<pitti> didrocks: *shrug* okay; when I wrote that, I didn't know what .quickly was (that was another point that I mentioned which needed clarification)
<pitti> if the user should never touch it, fine for me
<didrocks> pitti: is the new spec version more clear?
<pitti> didrocks: didn't have a look at the newer version (-EOVERLOAD)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, that's why I didn't understand :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: I am extracting work items and putting them on the whiteboard so we can track during Karmic
<rickspencer3> could you review those when I am done?
<didrocks> so, having an hidden file makes sense?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: sure, but I hadn't the time to follow the meeting about work items handling, are they just opened bug?
<rickspencer3> didrocks: no, we're tracking on the whitebaord
<rickspencer3> it will be rather obvious I think
<rickspencer3> check it out in like 1 minute
<didrocks> rickspencer3: ok, just drop me the link and I will review them :)
<didrocks> (still fighting with gnome-python-desktop stuff ^^)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-quickly
<rickspencer3> when you get the chance
<rickspencer3> please add ones that are missing
<rickspencer3> and if you feel some are done, change TODO to DONE
<rickspencer3> Thanks!
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I will do this during the week-end. Having my dinner now :)
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks: great
<rickspencer3> I think this is going to be one of the sleeper hits of Karmic!
<rickspencer3> pitti: I've added work items to both my blueprints
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I will do everything so that it will be :)
<didrocks> so you later!
<rickspencer3> bye bye
<rickspencer3> have a good weekend didrocks
<pitti> bye didrocks
<didrocks> thanks, you too :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: \o/
<pitti> ArneGoetje just added work items as well
<pitti> tomorrow's db dump should have some more data
<ArneGoetje> pitti: it's okay if the work items get added over time? I mean if it turns out that there is more to be done?
<pitti> ArneGoetje: yes, that works
<ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
<pitti> the total height of the bar will increase, but that's fine
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje: pitti: ideally, the churn will be minimal after next week
<rickspencer3> but increased scope can be measured by increases in the height of the bar
 * pitti plays the whack-a-spec game harder
 * pitti chuckles at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/SocialFromTheStart release note: "Gwiber does blabla. It is mandatory"
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ :-)
<pitti> MUST ... TWITTER!
<kenvandine> :)
<crevette> nobody experienced black flash of the display while running karmic? I think it comes from g-p-m...
<maxb> ah, yes I think I've seen that from time to time
<crevette> hmmm, g-p-m applet seems also to reset the "luminosity" of the display
<crevette> brightness is the right word I guess
<crevette> my exprience is: being on battery, set a defined brightness to make brighter, right click on the g-p-m applet and the brightness is instantly reset
<crevette> s/ight click on the g-p-m applet and/ight click on the g-p-m applet, click "preferences" and/
<pitti> seb128, asac, bryce: could you please take a look at https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-karmic-bug-workflow and check if the functinoality/approach suits you? please just comment in the whiteboard
<pitti> good night everyone, and have a nice weekend!
<SiDi> pitti: you too then
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti: sorry you were saying about the spec? karmic keep crashing the box while I'm away
 * seb128 notes to not upgrade to unstable so early next cycle
<SiDi> seb128: i think hes gone
<seb128> SiDi: he will be back on monday or something and read backlog
<SiDi> will he actually read so far ? :/
<seb128> "so far"?
<seb128> usually people read lines where they have been highlighted
<seb128> I don't expect he will be pinged a thousand time during the weekend
<SiDi> if he lets his PC idle all weekend, that'll still be a lot of lines to check. even with Ctrl+F. I personally never check my irc logs :)
<seb128> anyway thanks but I work with pitti for years and I will manage, no need to discuss how we are working
<seb128> I will talk to him on monday that's ok
<SiDi> i didnt mean to be offensive :p
<seb128> that was not offensive just not really an useful discussion
<rickspencer3-afk> SiDi
<rickspencer3-afk> heh
<rickspencer3-afk> oops
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-13
<rickspencer3> 'night all
<rickspencer3> have a good weekend
<Nafallo> asac, kenvandine: gajim 0.12.3 uploaded to karmic (ubuntu), intrepid and jaunty (gajim ppa).
<asac> rock on
<asac> i rather sleep now ;)
<mac9416> Hello, I would like to know how gnome-app-install determines what software to display. Obviously it only displays top-level apps, not dependencies. Also, how does it determine what category a package is in? None of that info is in the package index files.
<pochu> macvr: I think it uses the data in the app-install-data package
<pochu> the .desktop files in there, that is
<pochu> mac9416: ^ that was for you :)
<pochu> macvr: sorry
<macvr> np :)
<mac9416> Haha. So it lists all packs that have .desktop files in there, and the category info is in the .desktop's too?
<james_w> pretty much
<james_w> there are a few .desktop files added that aren't actually in packages to make a few more things appear
<james_w> and there are possibly a few things blacklisted or overriden, but that's the basic idea
<mac9416> OK, cool. Thanks.
<mac9416> May I ask where the .desktops are kept?
<pochu> mac9416: what do you mean?
<mac9416> If all the software listed in gnome-app-install is taken from .desktop files, where are the .desktops located?
<pochu> in app-install-data :)
<pochu> or in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/ in the filesystem
<mac9416> Ah, OK, thanks a lot :-)
<asac_2nd> bryce: tjaalton: anyone here?
<asac_2nd> oops
<asac_2nd> i am asac ;)
<asacasa> bryce: tjaalton: so i upgraded this inspiron 6400 to hardy and dont get a good resolution
<asacasa> damn pidgin thing
<asacasa> no nick changing
<asacasa> i run out of ideas ... using no xorg.conf gives me 800x600
<asacasa> is i810 still a valid driver name at all in hardy?
<asacasa> ok restarting X
<kathmich> ok thanks. removing xorg.conf.failsafe and xorg.conf helped
<kathmich> bryce: maybe we should move the .failsafe file away and only use it if nothing else works?
<kathmich> anyway. lets talk about that later
<kathmich> going off!
<kathmich> greetz from asac
<rickspencer3> pitti: I updated the burn-down chart script to place the trend line automagically
<rickspencer3> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rick-rickspencer3/+junk/py-burndown-chart
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-06-14
<rickspencer3> hi asac
<rickspencer3> o/
 * ccheney switched to using ccheney for his work irc nick to be easier to filter
<ccheney> apparently its hard for irc programs to differentiate between mentioning someone's nick and directing comments to someone's nick and with 'calc' that makes all discussion about OOo calc alert me which made its alert function nearly useless
<dobey> anyone around that hit up the kernel hackers at UDS during the wifi fixup session? i wasn't able to go, and my intel wifi was working fine, but my new laptop has atheros and it's pretty awful under jaunty (worked great in karmic, but video didn't so much)
<asac> dobey: what issues are those
<asac> ?
<dobey> asac: it's reporting the signal strength as significantly less than it should be (~30-40% 3ft from the AP), and disconnects often
<dobey> it's an Atheros XSPAN chip (if that means anything)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-14
<baptistemm> oops
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> RAOF: hey, I still can't upgrade my xserver because of nvidia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/449524/ any idea?
<baptistemm> heya didrocks
<didrocks> salut baptistemm, Ã§a va ?
<baptistemm> ouep
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> slomo: I tried vala-gen-introspect, but I didn't even get that to work; produces 0-byte output and crashes
<pitti> vish: perhaps try poking cjwatson/slangasek?
<pitti> vish: I'll try to have a look, but I can only spend very limited hours on SRUs this cycle
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<baptistemm> I packaged bluez 4.66 and obexd 0.27 for who concerned, but I guess I need james_w has to merge the code first
<baptistemm> s/who/whom/
<james_w> hi baptistemm
<james_w> any developer can do it, it doesn't have to be me
<baptistemm> hi james_w, ah Okay, I thought you were managing that as the merge recipient is you
<vish> pitti: oh , ok. they seemed a bit busy .. and you had already seen the branch when you approved the lucid task, so thought it might be easier for you..  i'll wait then  :)
<baptistemm> so anyone willing to, you can merge https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main :)
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: tu as le bonjour de kinouchou et YoBoY :)
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, c'Ã©tait bien votre rÃ©union ?
<didrocks> seb128: boarf, comme d'hab, beaucoup de plan sur la comÃ¨teâ¦ :)
<seb128> hehe
<didrocks> seb128: et sinon, toi bon week-end?
<seb128> oui, nickel
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti> oh, mvo is on holiday all week
<seb128> pitti, right
<huats> morning
<didrocks> hum, last version of libappindicator0.0-cil broke banshee indicator
<seb128> didrocks, right, they were discussing the 0 or 1 abi before weekend
<seb128> didrocks, check with kenvandine or ted when they will be there
<didrocks> seb128: sure, I will, I have also another thing to discuss with ted about the python binding (some function not working). That will be his day :)
<didrocks> do you think I should write a page for banshee evaluation for default in UNE or just discuss that in the meeting? (I have some TODO and WI list)
<seb128> would be nice to do a summary of what you noted
<seb128> could be worth sending to the ubuntu-desktop mailing list
<seb128> seems better than a wiki to discuss
<seb128> or start with the meeting tomorrow
<didrocks> ok, starting with the meeting tomorrow and then, launch the discussion in the ubuntu-desktop mailing list
<seb128> ok
<seb128> milanbv, hi, thanks for not trolling on upstream lists
<seb128> milanbv, we already have enough discussion about what Ubuntu does or not without that
<milanbv> seb128: sorry, but I don't think that's trolling :-)
<seb128> milanbv, so you think porting firefox and openoffice to gtk3 is trivial?
<milanbv> why doesn't an Ubuntu dev clearly explain what's the problem with GTK+3 on desktop-devel?
<seb128> and chromium
<seb128> milanbv, I'm going to
<milanbv> ah, here's a point - but I had never heard it before
<milanbv> cool :-)
<seb128> this discussion started before weekend
<seb128> and I don't work on weekends
<seb128> I'm just starting my week
<seb128> milanbv, the issue in short is that we need to duplicate the stack
<seb128> ie every lib using gtk needs 2 build
<seb128> a gtk2 and a gtk3 one
<milanbv> yeah, that I understand
<seb128> it's lot of work
<seb128> and we have no CD space for 2 stacks
<seb128> and we will not port firefox this cycle
<seb128> you can't change firefox without mozilla ack anyway
<milanbv> but are you sure porting Firefox and OO.o is so much work?
<milanbv> I've no idea about that, but usually it's not that hard
<milanbv> even if their codebases are evil ;-)
<seb128> mozilla doesn't let firefox to be changed without them approving the change
<seb128> to start with
<seb128> and I doubt they will allow such changes in a distribution
<milanbv> though I doubt they would refuses patches for that...
<seb128> I doubt they will want to switch to gtk3
<seb128> they don't have 2 codecases
<seb128> and most of their users are on gtk2 systems
<seb128> what would they win?
<milanbv> no idea, but that's definitely something to discuss with GNOME, because verybody is affected
<milanbv> they wouldn't win much, but anyway they'll have to switch
<seb128> not so sure
<seb128> gtk2 will be around for a while
<seb128> ie years
<seb128> they have no hurry to switch
<milanbv> yeah, but Linux distribs aren't going to use a GTK2 firefox for ages
<seb128> I'm pretty sure no distro will be able to do without gtk2 in the next year for their default installation
<milanbv> else that means GNOME will stay 2.30
<seb128> milanbv, what will they use?
<seb128> no
<seb128> it ship means you have to ship 2 versions of GTK
<seb128> which is not so much of an issue and most distros will do
<seb128> but it requires work and CD space
<milanbv> I agree that's really not optimal
<seb128> and we don't have the manpower for the packaging work and port work in half a cycle
<seb128> we aim for GTK3 and GNOME3 next cycle
<seb128> our team is small and we can't get there this cycle
<milanbv> but I fear all that patching work will be tedious too
<seb128> it will
<seb128> that's why we plan to do the platform this cycle
<seb128> ie we will have gtk3 and libraries built for it this cycle
<seb128> but not on the default installation
<seb128> so we can start working on getting things building with it
<seb128> but I've little doubt we will not be done by end of the cycle
<milanbv> anyway, I really believe this kind of decision should be explained upstream ASAP
<milanbv> you're helping rants against Ubuntu by not talking
<seb128> I talked to andre and vuntz about it
<seb128> we had fpeters at UDS
<seb128> and it has publically mentioned to several upstream
<seb128> ie empathy, tomboy
<seb128> I do plan to reply to those emails
<seb128> I didn't do an email upstream before because it's a distro choice
<seb128> and I don't see how what we do is revelant for upstream
<seb128> as you said on the list Ubuntu is only one distro
<seb128> why our choice should matter enough to be announced upstream
<milanbv> that's not one distro - that's one of the main distros
<seb128> I will reply to this email
<seb128> the bottom line is that I think GNOME is right to go to GTK3 this cycle
<milanbv> and that's relevant because e.g. Empathy devs are primarily concerned about getting 2.32 into Ubuntu
<seb128> but I don't trust GNOME3 to be ready on time
<seb128> well they are not the only ones and they are right as a project
<seb128> lot of upstream care about their code to run on the current lts
<didrocks> milanbv: empathy guys are already aware of that, we discussed it over the week-end and I annonced the point seb128 just explained to you
<seb128> and will do for some years
<didrocks> announced*
<seb128> or on the coming Debian stable
<seb128> or on RHEL6
<seb128> or on the current opensuse
<seb128> the fact that GNOME3 is coming doesn't mean those distro will stop being used
<seb128> and upstream will keep carring about having their software new versions available for those users
<seb128> I doubt firefox we go with "we do builds for GTK3, if you use RHEL or Lucid LTS or Debian you loose"
<seb128> will go
<seb128> I think it's not realistic to ask softwares writers to go GTK3 only
<milanbv> Firefox is another kettle of fish...
<seb128> well take pidgin if you like
<seb128> or chrome
<seb128> or openoffice
<seb128> or eclipse
<seb128> everything which matters out of GNOME itself
<milanbv> ...and is on the CD
<seb128> that's orthogonal
<milanbv> people using Eclipse can afford loading a second GTK+ version
<seb128> I'm explaining you why empathy and other will care about being gtk2 compatible still
<seb128> it doesn't mean they will not allow building with gtk3
<seb128> but dropping gtk2 support doesn't seem something software writters should or will do
<seb128> well there is 2 topics there
<seb128> - default gtk version we can and will use
<seb128> - what upstream code will build with
<seb128> and saying upstream code should stop building with gtk2 is a no go
<seb128> it means upstream code will stop building on Lucid LTS
<seb128> or RHEL6
<seb128> or Debian
<seb128> or opensuse
<milanbv> that's true for standalone software
<seb128> those distros don't have gtk3 in their current stable
<milanbv> but for GNOME core
<seb128> well, empathy is standalone software
<Zdra> seb128, it's really unsure empathy will build with gtk2
<seb128> or they can decide if they care about their software being shipped out of the new GNOME
<milanbv> and I think gnome-settings-daemon depends on GTK+3 already
<seb128> Zdra, well it's a call your team should be doing but knowing you drop support for all those distro when you do it
<Zdra> seb128, we are really in the middle of dilemma tbh
<seb128> milanbv, right, which is why we don't update to GNOME 2.31
<milanbv> yeah, but it's really not that nice...
<seb128> we don't have confidence on GNOME3 to be ready this cycle
<milanbv> I see
<seb128> it's going to be like the new KDE
<seb128> buggy and crashy
<milanbv> :D
<seb128> it's lot of changes for one cycle
<seb128> it's mixing gtk3 and dconf
<milanbv> not as many as for KDE4
<Zdra> seb128, I think the big big mistake is to not provide GtkApplication in Gtk 2.22
<Zdra> luckily they are (it seems) still making libunique-3
<Zdra> so that could safe us all
<seb128> how does that makes any difference?
<seb128> that's libunique for gtk3
<seb128> oh, you mean you can keep using that and not depends on gtk3 specific apis
<seb128> right...
<rodrigo_> seb128, have you seen the 'Call to maintainers: GNOME 2.31 to ship GTK 2.90' in desktop-devel-list?
<Zdra> seb128, exactly
<milanbv> rodrigo_: sure he has ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, they're talking about ubuntu not shipping gtk3, if you have something to say
<rodrigo_> ah, ok :)
<rodrigo_> ah, I see you've been discussing it :)
<Zdra> seb128, in the unlikely hypotheses that all packages shipped with ubuntu liveCD can build with GTK3, would you accept to ship gtk3 with maverick?
<seb128> Zdra, if it's available on time and working yes
<seb128> I still have little confidence on the GNOME3 schedule
<seb128> Zdra, but I doubt firefox or openoffice will be gtk3 friendly this cycle
<seb128> knowing those it will take a year to get there
<seb128> I don't think openoffice will roll a new version this cycle
<Zdra> seb128, yeah, it is unlikely... but to totally fair, I think you should communicate your position, give a list of packages that needs absolutely to build with gtk3, then we'll see...
<seb128> Zdra, I plan to reply to the mailing list with what I just said there
<seb128> I think it's not a good choice for software writters to drop gtk2 support
<seb128> it's not something any reasonable isv would do
<seb128> I don't ever see firefox telling all those RHEL or Debian or LTS use to stop using firefox
<Zdra> in the first place I think it is a *really* bad idea from GTK dev to add features in GTK 3.0
<Zdra> the initial plan was to have gtk 3.0 == gtk2.22 - deprecated
<milanbv> Firefox could be GTK2 and 3 friendly at the same time
<milanbv> just removing deprecated symbols
<milanbv> that's what most GNOME modules will do
<milanbv> the problem is, will they want it in time...
<seb128> no, it's not what GNOME will do
<seb128> that's why we have this discussion
<seb128> empathy 2.32 for example might depends on gtk3
<seb128> ie using gtkapplication
<seb128> which is a gtk3 feature only
<seb128> which means it will not be able to build it with gtk2 or on any gtk2 only distro
<seb128> well again those are 2 different issues
<Zdra> seb128, tbh we didn't make any decision, and we understand it is important to support gtk2, and even more important to be shipped with ubuntu
<seb128> one being what default gtk we will use
<seb128> the other is what software writters will support
<seb128> I can't really speak for GNOME components
<seb128> ie empathy
<Zdra> seb128, but if that becomes a GNOME goal to drop libunique and use GtkApplication... then that will become problematic
<seb128> but I can for sure say that things like pidgin or firefox or chrome will not let gtk2 users down by stopping building with it
<seb128> Zdra, you could have buildtime if code to use one or the other I guess
<milanbv> using libunique for yet one cycle won't be considered a crime I guess
<Zdra> seb128, I think the important thing now is the explain the ubuntu position, and ask GNOME release them to ensure that 2.32 still build with gtk2 as compatibility
<seb128> I plan to do that
<Zdra> seb128, and also ask GTK dev WTF they are doing with 2.22
<Zdra> they should really backport gtkapplication, I see no reason for not doing it
<rodrigo_> someone mentioned having GtkApplication in2.22, iirc
<rodrigo_> with that, most stuff should work ok with both gtk2 and gtk3, I think
<milanbv> Zdra: ask Colin Walters, I think he was OK to do it
<didrocks> seb128: did your rhythmbox snapshot work for you?
<seb128> didrocks, no, I like to upload broken things
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I knew that! :-)
<seb128> didrocks, what issue do you have?
<didrocks> seb128: more seriously, it's segfaulting each times it tries to play something (local mp3/ogg, radio, upnp shared music)
<seb128> stacktrace?
<seb128> let me try
<didrocks> on the way, installing the -dbgsym now
<seb128> I'm still on lucid so I tested it on lucid
<seb128> I'm starting my mini which runs maverick now
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> that's why I asked you first :-)
<seb128> can you try to play an ogg in totelm
<seb128> totem
<didrocks> mp3 and ogg are working in totem
<didrocks> so, doesn't seem to be gstreamer related
<seb128> didrocks, I can play the example-contents ogg fine on the mini
<seb128> let's wait for your stacktrace
<didrocks> hum, it seems to fail in gstreamer :/ let me install the -dbgsym for it
<seb128> didrocks, try changing the crossfading option
<didrocks> oh, now I remember I activated this morning a plugin
<didrocks> got it it's ReplayAgain
<didrocks> ReplayGain
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: this plugin is officiel, right? I can report in upstream bugtracker?
<didrocks> official*
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> ok, I will report that, thanks seb128!
<seb128> thanks didrocks!
<rodrigo_> what consumer does manage-credentials need to authenticate for lp-project-upload to work?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: from the code, it's 'ubuntu-dev-tools'
<didrocks> (function get_launchpad() used by some scripts in ubuntu-dev-tools)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, thanks
<nessita> didrocks: hey there, I was asking rodrigo_ how to create credentials to upload releases to LP
<nessita> and manage-credentials -c ubuntu-dev-tools is failing with "manage-credentials: error: Please define a sub-tool you would like to use
<nessita> didrocks: any idea what am I missing?
<didrocks> nessita: why do you use manage-credentials? you should just use lp-project-upload
<didrocks> this one will create the crendential for you
<nessita> didrocks: well, yes, but it says:
<nessita> Could not connect to Launchpad: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.
<didrocks> oh ok, it's been a while I've created my credential for it, let me check
<didrocks> because manage-credentials -c foo works
<nessita> didrocks: thanks :-)
<didrocks> but yeah, not with ubuntu-dev-tools
<rodrigo_> I never had to use manage-credentials, not sure which tool created my credentials
<nessita> rodrigo_: maybe because this is a new installation? though my home is the same, and I can push and pull from LP with no problem (to private projects as well)
<rodrigo_> nessita, the credentials for bzr branches are different, afaik
<nessita> oh ok
<didrocks> nessita: manage-credentials create -c 'ubuntu-dev-tools'
<nessita> didrocks: no way! :-)
<didrocks> nessita: you forgot the create tool
<nessita> yes
<nessita> didrocks: anyways, it failed with http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/EJQDzkWt
<nessita> I'll try again
<didrocks> nessita: did you accepted in your browser before pressing enter?
<didrocks> lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized
<didrocks> -> I guess no :)
<nessita> didrocks: didn't see the browser tab, honestly
<didrocks> nessita: is it there now?
<nessita> didrocks: thank you! I'm uploading the project now
<nessita> didrocks: yes, ti worked
<nessita> it*
<didrocks> nessita: sweet, you're welcomed :)
<didrocks> going out for half an hour for some errands
<seb128> didrocks, you didn't add a stacktrace to the rb crash bug
<didrocks> seb128: got a bugzilla timeout (just checking the tab)
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> fixing this
<seb128> thank you
<didrocks> seb128: done, thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well rather than a binary one
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to change the type to a text one as well rather than a binary one
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sorry
<didrocks> seb128: hum? I don't know that feature, let me have a look
<seb128> well usually clicking on a stacktrace works
<seb128> there is wants to open it and it says it's a binary format to download
<didrocks> hum, that's because it gave a bad MimeType
<didrocks> (bugzilla is horribly slow there today)
<seb128> usually people just copy the stacktrace in a comment on bugzilla I think
<pedro_> didrocks, i've paste the stacktrace you attached in the bug report so it can be looked more easily
<seb128> bugzilla is clever about those and display only the start with a expender sign
<seb128> thanks pedro_
<pedro_> that way it would work as seb128 said
<seb128> pedro_, hey btw, how are you?
<didrocks> pedro_: thanks a lot :)
<pedro_> with the stacktrace parser and all that
<pedro_> seb128, I'm good! how are you doing?
<pedro_> didrocks, you're welcome ;-)
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will do that way next time, just paste it
<didrocks> seb128: thanks too :-)
<seb128> didrocks, see what it gives now that pedro copied it
<didrocks> right, it's easily readable without cluttering the page
<ravibn> Hi! I need help installing ubuntu 10.04 64 bit
<seb128> ravibn, hi, try #ubuntu
<ravibn> seb128: been there and they said they do not know
<seb128> ravibn, well try again later then
<ravibn> no one else wanna try here
<ravibn> looks like people are watching football
<seb128> didrocks, is oneconf in s-c or ubiquity still likely for a2 or should that be revisited?
<seb128> didrocks, can you give me a summary of where it stands? does it need design input? did people agree to get it in there?
<seb128> hello rickspencer3
<didrocks> seb128: mvo told me last week that the software-center plugin was available end of last week, which didn't happen. So, it will be delay by one more week now that he is in holidays
<didrocks> mpt is working today on the design (we discussed together last Friday about that point)
<seb128> didrocks, mvo is not the only one to work on s-c ;-)
<didrocks> so, designed-view, it shold be ok
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so design agree to get it in s-c?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but the plugin part was his task, apparently
<didrocks> right
<seb128> I though there were some discussions about it and I though I read about ubiquity being an issue due to connectivity not always being there etc
<didrocks> ubiquity, I think it won't do it this cycle to be honest
<rickspencer3> good morning seb128
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I agree with that, can you change the workitem to delayed?
<didrocks> seb128: sure, DELAYED or POSTPONED? both are valid?
<seb128> ups, postponed
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> sorry ;-)
<didrocks> no worry :-)
<seb128> the appmenubar is in main btw now
<didrocks> ok, will seed it today so
<seb128> so it should be easy to check that workitem this week if you want ;-)
<seb128> check with davidbarth first though
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> I think he had some concern about quality on friday
<didrocks> also, I will POSTPONE some Quickly tasks as gedit is changing his plugin system this cycle
<seb128> it might require to confirm if it's ready to go or not
<didrocks> ok, will check with him
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> thanks!
<didrocks> you're welcome :)
<seb128> tremolux, hello
<didrocks> hey tremolux
<seb128> tremolux, can you let me know when you have some time to talk about your workitems?
<seb128> tremolux, you are a bit behind on the alpha2 list, we are near of the mid-milestone mark and you got 5 items on 18 done
<seb128> tremolux, that's not an issue but need to look if those items are still realistics or if some need to be moved to a3 now
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<seb128> kenvandine, it seems the tp-approver thing will not happen for a2 right?
<seb128> kenvandine, can you move it to a3 if that's the case?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, hi
<seb128> ArneGoetje, where do you stand with design for language-selectors mockups? can you ping them to get an update if you didn't have one recently?
<seb128> RAOF, you are probably sleeping or not working right now but for tomorrow, we need to discuss your workitems, we are mid a2 milestone and you got 2 items out of 21 crossed
<seb128> RAOF, I would like to check with you if you need help or if we shoul reschedule some of those for later
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah, will do
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, hey btw, did you have a nice weekend?
<kenvandine> seb128, not really... but i hope you did :)
<kenvandine> seb128, i started getting sick thurs and friday... and friday night i went to the doctor... turns out i have an infection caused by a tick bite
<seb128> urg
<kenvandine> something similar to rocky mountain spotted fever, not sure if you ever heard of that
<seb128> :-(
<kenvandine> but it's a pain...
<seb128> my weekend was quite nice thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, no I didn't, checking on internet now ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, I hope you get better
<kenvandine> anyway... i'll survive... but will have joint pain.. aches and pains and a fever for probably 2 full weeks :(
<seb128> kenvandine, take some rest today if you need it
<seb128> :-(
<kenvandine> it's a nasty infection... i was never too worried about ticks before...
<kenvandine> anyway... i'll be ok :)
<seb128> they are known to be bad around there
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> we try to be careful with those
<kenvandine> i was working on my fence two weeks ago... and got a bunch of bite
<kenvandine> +s
<seb128> anyway at least you know what you have now
<kenvandine> yeah... glad my wife made me go to the doctor...
<kenvandine> she's the one that remembered i got the tick bites... and knew to make me go to the doctor asap
<tremolux> seb128: hi Seb, we can talk about work items; last week was a bit of a backfill week but I plan to focus on work items this week exclusively
<kenvandine> seb128, just talked to rickspencer3, we moved all my existing gwibber WIs to a3
<rickspencer3> and add work items for fixing Twitter after Twitter breaks Gwibber
<kenvandine> and i added a couple new ones to a2, to handle an important change to twitter that needs to get into lucid by the end of june
<seb128> ok, thanks
<seb128> tremolux, hey
<kenvandine> seb128, basically twitter.com is turning off the auth mechanism that we use currently, and they just published the spec for how open source apps will need to auth
<tremolux> seb128: particularly the New Apps and Buy something items are moving now
<tremolux> seb128: hiya  :)
<seb128> kenvandine, seems something to move priority on indeed
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> tremolux, so do you think you are on track to get everything on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html done by end of the month or not?
<seb128> tremolux, ""Where is it" feature; investigate whether we need to enable accessibility by default (enables us to talk to the menu)"
<seb128> tremolux, did you take into consideration environments without menus, ie UNE, for this one?
<tremolux> seb128: no, actually, I haven't dug into that one at all yet
<tremolux> seb128: those items in the UI Enhancements lists test to be standalong features, they are good candidates for trading in and out as we see fit
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it seems to me this one should be move to alpha3
<seb128> what do you think?
<tremolux> seb128: yeah, I agree; the issue with accessibility was the gate for that
<seb128> ok, please move it then on the blueprint then, thanks
<tremolux> seb128: will do
<seb128> tremolux, otherwise you have quite some items still but it seems doable if you focus on those this week
<seb128> tremolux, let's see how it goes
<seb128> tremolux, keep the good work, s-c looks great ;-)
<tremolux> seb128: yes, that sounds good
<seb128> tremolux, btw let me know if you need sponsoring for an upload this week since mvo is on holidays
<tremolux> seb128: thanks :)
<tremolux> seb128: right, thanks, mvo mentioned that, I think later this week may be a good time to do one
<seb128> ok
<seb128> just let me know when you think we should do an update
<tremolux> seb128: we did a release last week with a lot of new stuff and I've done some cleanup since
<tremolux> seb128: thanks
<bcurtiswx> seb128: will the testing PPA's be posted on the mailing lists.  I can use my VM if it'll help out. (i.e. the new gnome panel)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, what testing ppa?
<seb128> oh, you mean specifically for gnome-panel
<seb128> I guess we will not do the update
<seb128> I should update the blueprint
<seb128> the gtk3 issue got added to the list since UDS
<bcurtiswx> seb128: yeah, im reading ahead on some of the blueprints
 * bcurtiswx shrugs as to why his wireless is bad today
<tremolux> kenvandine: hi Ken, mpt has some useful comments for Gwibber integration in Software Center here:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/592619
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 592619 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Software item screen has unspecified "Share via microblog" item (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
 * kenvandine looks
<tremolux> kenvandine: p.s.  sorry to hear about your tick bite!
<tremolux> kenvandine: not Lyme disease, is it?
 * bcurtiswx agrees it sounds like Lyme disease
<kenvandine> no.. thankfully
<kenvandine> ehrlichiosis
 * kenvandine hates medical terms... do that have to be so hard to pronounce and spell?
<tremolux> kenvandine: ug, still sounds like no fun
<kenvandine> it is pretty similar to rocky mounted spotted fever, but not as agressive
<tremolux> kenvandine: it's great for parties tho, "oh, yes, I've got this nasty case of ehrlichiosis.  please pass the onion dip"
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> that's awesome
<tremolux> kenvandine: anyway, feel better soon
<kenvandine> thx man
<tremolux> kenvandine: note on that bug, reviews are not currently in the plan for maverick
<kenvandine> tremolux, indeed... my original branch didn't use the term microblog... i think it said something like Share with your social networks
<kenvandine> or something like that
<tremolux> kenvandine: ah, interesting!
<kenvandine> i know we avoid the term microblog... but i am not sure there is a consensus on what should be used
<tremolux> kenvandine: I can check, maybe mvo changed that?
<kenvandine> mpt, "Broadcast"
<kenvandine> mvo did change it... almost certain
<tremolux> kenvandine: yeah
<kenvandine> maybe mpt can give us some guidance on terminology
<kenvandine> and he makes a good point for apturl
<kenvandine> but... other gwibber users get something useful
<mpt> kenvandine, I think first we should nail down what user stories we want to satisfy. "Check out {this thing}" doesn't seem obviously something we should make easy -- or at least, not easier than, say, e-mailing someone about this thing.
<mpt> kenvandine, were there any other suggestions made during the UDS session?
<rodrigo_> seb128, more questions :)
<seb128> ?
<seb128> I didn't get your previous question if you asked one
<rodrigo_> seb128, we have a package split from u1-client that we want to upload to maverick and included in main
<seb128> so ask again ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, just warning you that I have more questions :)
<seb128> oh ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, should we go via REVU?
<rodrigo_> or just upload and file a MIR?
<seb128> source split or binaries split from what is built?
<rodrigo_> source split
<seb128> I doubt you will be able to upload the new source
<seb128> you need a new package, review, etc
<nessita> seb128: we almost have the new package ready
<seb128> ok good
<seb128> so feel free to upload
<seb128> REVU is not an hard requirement
<kenvandine> mpt, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-social-api
<nessita> seb128: to upload to revu or to a branch?
<kenvandine> the notes are on the bottom of the whiteboard
<nessita> ah, right
<mpt> kenvandine, our GSoC student intends to do the apturl part of that
<seb128> nessita, to upload to Ubuntu
<seb128> ie get somebody to sponsor it
<seb128> ie kenvandine
<rodrigo_> seb128, and once it's uploaded?
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<nessita> perfect
<rodrigo_> hey kenvandine, feeling better?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will review it in NEW once it's uploaded
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, the ibuprofin is helping a little... keep the fever a bit down
<kenvandine> best i can hope for :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool, I thought you were not working today because of that, so hope it gets better :)
<kenvandine> mpt, cool... my branch had a urlhandler for software-center specific urls, so other ubuntu users would go straight into software-center
<kenvandine> mpt, but mvo didn't take that part of my branch :)
<kenvandine> getting it in apturl is much better
<ArneGoetje> seb128: I did have a meeting on Friday with them. I'm in the process of updating the specs and creating the mockups now.
<seb128> ArneGoetje, thanks
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, nah... i can't do anything terribly physical... but i can touch keys and move the mouse :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool then :)
<LaserJock> didrocks: around?
<didrocks> LaserJock: sure
<cjohnston> rickspencer3: are you around?
<rickspencer3> cjohnston, yeah, but otp
<rickspencer3> 5 - 10 mins
<cjohnston> Could you let me know when you have a few minutes to talk about something real quick... I'm at work today, so if I'm not around I'm on a call
<cjohnston> rickspencer3: bbiab
<mpt> tremolux, I've specced that USC should remember {whether hidden items were shown} only inside the Back/Forward history. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=diff&rev2=376&rev1=373>
<tremolux> mpt: excellent, thanks
<Riddell> what's the sound mixer applet in ubuntu these days?
<seb128> indicator-sound
<Riddell> seb128: in lucid?
<seb128> yes
<LaserJock> didrocks: is there a new PPA for Unity or is it still at ppa:canonical-dx-team/une
<didrocks> LaserJock: still the same
<didrocks> LaserJock: just follow the instructions there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Unity
<Riddell> what's the ubuntu desktop user config/new user tool these days?
<rickspencer3> Riddell, I think that's called "the desktop"
<rickspencer3> just kidding
<rickspencer3> are you looking for the package name?
<Riddell> yes
<rickspencer3> Riddell, well, I guess it's users-admin
<rickspencer3> but it's in the gnome-desktop
<rickspencer3> so I don't know what package it would be in other than ubuntu-desktop
<rickspencer3> hth
<seb128> we are going to get a new one this cycle
<seb128> Riddell, what are you trying to do?
<Riddell> seb128: look at the add new user tool for ubuntu desktop
<Riddell> if there's two such tools even better :)
<seb128> we don't have it packaged yet
<cjohnston> kenvandine: do you have any idea if Ryan has had a chance to look at bug 580067?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 580067 in gwibber "twitter fails to download messages, sometimes (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/580067
<Riddell> seb128: what's the old one?
<seb128> Riddell, users-admin
<rickspencer3> urk
<rickspencer3> seb128, evo is crashing as soon as it is done loading messages for me
<Riddell> ah, gnome-system-tools
<rickspencer3> I don't see a bug assigned to our team on this
<seb128> rickspencer3, maverick?
<seb128> or lucid
<rickspencer3> seb128, yah
<rickspencer3> maverick
<rickspencer3> I'm doing a dist-upgrade right now
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's a bit early to start tracking bugs in maverick this way
<rickspencer3> but didn't see a new evo
<seb128> rickspencer3, quickly click on an another email when it opens
<rickspencer3> seb128, ack ... but I was looking for a bug report to see if there is a workaround, etc...
<rickspencer3> and make sure one has been logged
 * rickspencer3 tries the quickly click trick
<seb128> we got some similar bugs
<seb128> not easy to say if it's the same without a stacktrace
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> so long as it's tracked
<seb128> you can also use apport to open a bug
<seb128> if you want to be sure
<seb128> but we do have similar crash bugs tracked
<seb128> if you don't want to bother wait a bit
<didrocks> rickspencer3: seb128: there are still some messages not working with the workaround
<didrocks> didn't have the time to look at it recently
<rickspencer3> seb128, I like the "if you don't want to bother approach" ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> cjohnston, oh... i think he did
<kenvandine> and i think he has a fix... he should really comment on those bugs
<kenvandine> i'll bug him about it and see if we can get the patch in an SRU
<seb128> ok, time for sport, see you later
<kenvandine> later seb128
<kenvandine> have fun
<seb128> thanks
<cjohnston> kenvandine: I'm running the daily... was it already put in there do you think?
<kenvandine> no... it hasn't been committed
<kenvandine> it is bumping the timeout for pycurl
<didrocks> rickspencer3: urgh, you got me :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, what?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I was reading http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/06/go-here-to-learn-to-program-from-mit.html in my feed reader thinking I was reading xkcd and saw him mentionned Quickly !
<didrocks> rickspencer3: but it was your blog :)
<kenvandine> cjohnston, he thinks it will fix a handful of things... i'll get it SRU'd and committed
<kenvandine> :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
 * kenvandine goes to finish eating... bbiab
<rickspencer3> sorry didrocks
<didrocks> rickspencer3: no pb. I was so happy for 4 seconds. It worthed it :p
<rickspencer3> hehe
<cjohnston> awesome
<fta> slomo, here?
<fta> slomo, wrt libvpx, do you track only releases? i see that mozilla is tracking a snapshot, and chromium is still with the initial git commit, while otoh, commits started to flow in upstream git
<slomo> fta: libvpx 0.9.0-6 contains latest GIT version as of 8 days ago
<slomo> fta: soon there will be a 0.9.1 release, i'll update to that then
<slomo> fta: why?
<fta> slomo, so 0.9.0-6 is 0.9.0+gitxxxx, not 0.9.0 proper, right?
<slomo> yes
<slomo> see the changelog
<fta> slomo, the reason i ask is because i see some fixes and perf improvements in git. and using webm in chromium, 720p is using lots of cpu
<fta> chromium is not yet using the GPU, so any perf improvement in the codec is good to have
<slomo> the performance improvements are not *that* much, only a few percent
<slomo> it's still using quite some cpu
<fta> i know, but each % counts ;)
<dobey> any sponsors around?
<fta> slomo, i had to disable crossfading in rhythmbox, it was doing weird stuff since the upgrade to maverick, is there already a bug i can track?
<slomo> fta: no idea
<nessita> seb128: ping
<seb128> nessita, hi
<nessita> seb128: I'm trying to upload the package that rodrigo_ mentioned before, and I'm getting
<nessita> nessita@dali:~$ bzr push lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/first-release
<nessita> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/first-release": No such source package ubuntu-sso-client.
<nessita> seb128: I'm new to packaging, but rodrigo_ said that would be correct, could you please point what's missing?
<nessita> seb128: or do I need to upload using dput?
<seb128> is there a ubuntu-sso-client product on launchpad?
<seb128> urg, rather source package in ubuntu
<nessita> seb128: yes to project, no to source package on ubuntu
<nessita> seb128: this is meant to be that package :-)
<seb128> ok so you can't use the ubuntu maverick namespace
<seb128> well you need to push somewhere else until it's in ubuntu
<seb128> ie lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu-sso-client/first-release
<james_w> even a ppa would make that command work
<nessita> james_w: you mean dputting to a PPA?
<dobey> hey seb128 and james_w
<seb128> hey dobey
<seb128> nessita, I guess he does yes
<nessita> seb128: what should I do after pushing to a branch of mine/putting into a PPA?
<dobey> could i get one of you guys to poke at my mocker upload in REVU? :)
<james_w> hi dobey
<seb128> dobey, try #ubuntu-motu?
<dobey> ah ok
<james_w> nessita: yes, just dputting to a ppa would allow you to push to that url
<seb128> I've no clue about REVU
<dobey> i asked in -dev, but it seems pretty dead over there :)
<nessita> james_w: yey! I could push indeed, thanks!
<nessita> seb128: package is uploaded to lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/first-release, I need a sponsor now, right?
<seb128> nessita, yes
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, got those branches merged!
<RAOF> Mornin' all.
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF.
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: good morning !
<TheMuso> Hey ronoc_narruc.
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: how's all in Sydney since you got back ?
<TheMuso> ronoc_narruc: Not too bad thanks. Finally into winter, although our winter is nothing compared to what the northern hemisphere gets.
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: took a holiday for two weeks recently - just what I needed
<TheMuso> Nice
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: So Ivanka wants to get this sound theme redesign underway.
<TheMuso> ronoc_narruc: ok cool
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: I told her we(Michael, you and I) would come up with a list of what sounds are to be redesigned..
<TheMuso> ok we need to look those over
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso, I'm pretty flat out but will fire off an email in the next day or so with my thoughts
<TheMuso> ok
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: new speakers arrived today
<TheMuso> nice
<ronoc_narruc> TheMuso: dynaudio BM15a's
<TheMuso> cool
<ronoc_narruc> as nice as i remember them from a session i did about 5 years ago
<TheMuso> heh
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-15
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor libgweather from bzr?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: sure thing
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I don't seem to have /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-autotools.mk on my system, and installing libgweather's build dependencies doesn't grab it either. Do you know what package its from?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, Mavericks cdbs
<TheMuso> oh ok
<robert_ancell> makes the debian packages _so much better_ but yeah, can't build them on Lucid
 * TheMuso uses a chroot then.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, bryceh: How fast can you get an xserver to start on boot?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You mean - what service dependencies does the xserver have?
<bryceh> robert_ancell, depends on hardware
<robert_ancell> both dependencies and what the state is now - i.e. is lucid booting x as fast as it can?
<bryceh> robert_ancell, if you mean "is there anything we can change in xserver to make the xserver portion of the boot faster", I think we pretty much squeezed everything out of it we knew to do
<bryceh> robert_ancell, however if you mean "Are there other things in the boot process that could get us to a working X session faster"... maybe, I'm not sure there though.
<RAOF> You could start X sooner in the boot if you didn't have to start it from gdm.  I'm not sure how useful that would be, though.
<robert_ancell> bryceh, so how long does it take to start on a cut down system, e.g. a dell mini
<robert_ancell> I'm asking because I've been working on a new display manager which is as fast as possible.  I was wondering how fast you could get X running so then you could run an X app as the boot splash
<bryceh> robert_ancell, xserver itself takes a second or two on a dell mini with ssd (exact time varies boot to boot, but seb128 and scott had some detailed numbers as proof)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, if you use xdm and boot into a non-gnome X session using the -vesa driver, you can get things up and running in about a second
<bryceh> maybe less
<robert_ancell> nice, that would be fast enough.  run a static image on the fb before that
<bryceh> robert_ancell, also there is a timing patch floating around for xserver (check the debian/patches/ dir, I think it may be just commented out)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, if you are able to use fbdev, that may give equivalent performance as vesa
<robert_ancell> I'd want to use the same drivers as the desktop would run on, so you don't have to reload anything later in the boot
<bryceh> ah gotcha
<bryceh> ok, was going to mention some other "well if you can lock down the hardware, then you can drop..."
<RAOF> bryceh, robert_ancell: The upstream server now timestamps its logs, as of 1.8.
<bryceh> RAOF, know if that patch is backported to lucid?  (and if it's better than the one we were toying with last release?)
<RAOF> I certainly haven't backported it to Lucid.  I'm not sure if it's been backported to 1.7
<bryceh> mm
<bryceh> anyway, I had gone through the timing data myself and didn't spot any obvious optimizations we could do, so might not be worth the trouble, but patches are available if xserver boot seems slow
<bryceh> robert_ancell, these days a lot of the goopy stuff amenable to optimization (like edid probing) is done in the kernel side via kms
<robert_ancell> ok
<bryceh> edid caching is a big win, and that's a kernel thingee
<Sarvatt> no we can squeeze at least another 400ms out of the xserver startup time by dropping the pci vendor and card name lookup
<bryceh> it's probably worth testing to be sure it's functioning properly
<bryceh> Sarvatt, well that's what I was going to mention when I said "if you can lock down the hardware"... ;-)
<Sarvatt> which will probably be done in 1.9
<RAOF> Sarvatt: We'll pick up those patches for free in 1.9
<robert_ancell> ooh, that sounds nice
<bryceh> Sarvatt, robert_ancell: but that depends a lot on if you are going to always know ahead of time what the hw is
<Sarvatt> its parses the huge pci id list just for mapping the vendor/device name at the very start, the driver prints its own identifying message so its not really useful
<bryceh> Sarvatt, can you link robert_ancell the patch for that?
<RAOF> bryceh: No, this is basically just for printing the vendor ID (which most of the DDXs do anyway, in a better way) in Xorg.0.log.
<Sarvatt> just the one line - [  6357.749] (--) PCI:*(0:1:0:0) 1002:94c3:174b:e370 ATI Technologies Inc RV610 video device [Radeon HD 2400 PRO] rev 0, Mem @ 0xd0000000$
<bryceh> ah
<Sarvatt> http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/989/ http://patchwork.freedesktop.org/patch/990/
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<Sarvatt> it's about 400ms for the lookup here on my netbook, about 150ms on a faster core 2
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: What is this display manager you are working on?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, lp:lightdm
<TheMuso> ah ok
<robert_ancell> it's pre-alpha at the momeny
<robert_ancell> moment
<TheMuso> ok
<RAOF> Would anyone like to sponsor a mesa upload?  http://cooperteam.net/Packages/mesa_7.8.1-3ubuntu1_source.changes and http://cooperteam.net/Packages/mesa_7.8.1-3ubuntu1.dsc .  I'm going to have some lunch, so if anyone wants to sponsor it I'll be back at about the time your build has finished :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: will take a look.
<RAOF> Ta.
<Sarvatt> RAOF: should do libdrm first?
<RAOF> Sarvatt: Doh!  Of course!
<RAOF> Stupid local packages.
<RAOF> That said, mesa builds fine against 2.4.20
<TheMuso> RAOF: should I wait?
<RAOF> Let me double check.  I _think_ it doesn't matter.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ok
<RAOF> TheMuso: You can proceed.  Mesa builds fine against 2.4.20, and doesn't use any symbols from 2.4.21 as determined by the dpkg dependencies.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ok
<Sarvatt> the mesa change is insanely huge to review TheMuso, I'm sorry and thanks for doing it :)
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: np
<RAOF> We'll want the new libdrm for a new -intel DDX, but that can wait and doesn't need to block mesa.
<Sarvatt> speaking of which i should update that in debian
<TheMuso> RAOF: uploading
<RAOF_> Who pinged me?  Things are a little bit weird with the electricians rewiring stuff.
<lifeless> 15:34 < RAOF> We'll want the new libdrm for a new -intel DDX, but that can wait and doesn't need to block mesa.
<lifeless> 15:34 < Sarvatt> speaking of which i should update that in debian
<lifeless> 15:59 -!- tedg [~ted@pool-71-96-212-220.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-desktop
<lifeless> 16:05 < TheMuso> RAOF: uploading
<lifeless> 16:05 -!- RAOF_ [~RAOF@ppp105-211.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-desktop
<lifeless> 16:13 < RAOF_> Who pinged me?  Things are a little bit weird with the electricians rewiring stuff.
<RAOF_> lifeless: Thank you, valiant IRC proxy.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor poppler from bzr?
<TheMuso> Sure.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<didrocks> good morning
<didrocks> RAOF: hey, did you see my question about nvidia?
<RAOF> didrocks: Good morning.  I did not see your question, no.
<RAOF> Would you like to fix it by sponsoring a rebuild of nvidia-graphics-drivers? :)
<TheMuso> lol
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> RAOF: that maybe the cause of that, right: http://paste.ubuntu.com/449524/ ?
<RAOF> didrocks: Yes, exatly.
<didrocks> RAOF: if you have something to be sponsored, I will be pleased to do so :)
<RAOF> didrocks: http://cooperteam.net/Packages/nvidia-graphics-drivers_195.36.24-0ubuntu2_source.changes is available for your sponsoring pleasure.
<didrocks> RAOF: sweet :)
 * TheMuso worked on the 185 variant at some point in the past, the packaging is interesting. I refer more so to now NVIDIA package the drivers than the Ubuntu/Debian/dkms packaging.
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> RAOF: signed and uploaded for your (and mine) pleasure :)
<didrocks> thanks
<didrocks> baptistemm: salut!
<baptistemm> salut didrocks
<robert_ancell> desrt, ping
<didrocks> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> didrocks, hey, good
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, good morning didrocks
<RAOF> Ok.  I'm off to the hardware store to buy some lights for the electricians to put in tomorrow.  I think seb's looking for me; I'll be back on later this evening.
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> splendid, thanks
<seb128> hey there
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<Sarvatt> fta: your script rocks, thank you! http://sarvatt.com/xorg-edgers/
<seb128> lut didrocks, nickel, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci :)
<seb128> so mclasen started trolling as well
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, morning
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you today?
<robert_ancell> busy :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, to reply to your email, new poppler depends on cairo 1.9
<seb128> do you think we should update cairo?
<seb128> I had that discussion with upstream yesterday
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: are bug 528557 and bug 229187 fixed in maverick? I can't copy the lucid-proposed
<seb128> they plan their next stable in august
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 528557 in evolution (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 3 other projects) "cannot turn on alarm for meeting received via email (affects: 4) (heat: 28)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528557
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 229187 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "Evolution mailing list does not render accents correctly (affects: 3) (heat: 22)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229187
<seb128> but they did plan it in january before
<robert_ancell> I would say yes, as long as they don't plan anything crazy
<seb128> so I don't really trust them for their schedule
<seb128> other distro had to go back to cairo 1.8 previous cycles
<didrocks> pitti: it's in trunk, we still didn't upload the new version there, but in any case, I'll keep an eye on them
<robert_ancell> seb128, hmm, annoying
<Sarvatt> cairo 1.10 is a myth! :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, upstream would like us to get the new cairo in the xorg-edger ppa for testing
<seb128> robert_ancell, if you are interested to get that happening ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, If there's no specific reason for upgrading, and a risk of it not being ready we should hold back
<robert_ancell> I'm willing to do the packaging
<seb128> it's in debian experimental
<seb128> so it's basically merging our lcd filter change
<seb128> I think getting it in the xorg-edget ppa would be a nice start
<seb128> it would be there for testing with other xorg edge versions
<robert_ancell> I'll put it on the low priority list, and have a look if everything else is working
<Sarvatt> is it? i'll put it in the ppa then, i've been building it seperately for over a year now
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you read d-d-l?
<seb128> Sarvatt, that would be nice, thanks!
<robert_ancell> seb128, no
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, that's wise ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I had heard legends of how much time it takes to read, so I've never bothered to subscribe
<Sarvatt> the lcd filter stuff won't apply i'm sure though
<seb128> Sarvatt, so it needs to be updated to apply ;-)
<seb128> pitti, what didrocks said
<pitti> didrocks: ok, thanks
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I replied to mclasen troll
 * didrocks didn't read d-d-l still today
<seb128> not missing anything
<seb128> he's trolling us for shipping desktopcouch and saying that shipping 2 gtk versions is a CD space issue
<seb128> then trolling us for not shipping GNOME3 this cycle
<didrocks> urgh :/ I'm not eager to read this, preferring working first, that's more positive
<seb128> saying that we basically don't contribute to it but work on ayatana things at the same time and that we should stop pretending
<didrocks> how nice this isâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, ignore the troll ;-)
<hyperair> hrmm? where's this post?
<seb128> desktop-devel-list
<seb128> pitti, if your libusb upload fixes the crash we talked about before lucid that would rock really
<robert_ancell> later all
<huats> morning
<RAOF> seb128: You wanted to talk about my work-items?  They might look slightly more scary than they are.  I've knocked off two of the bigger ones today, a number of them are for tools outside the archive which won't be affected by the A2 freeze, and some more are documentation WIs.
<seb128> hey RAOF
<seb128> RAOF, well, we are mid milestone and you have ticked 2 items on 21
<seb128> the maths says you are well behind so I wanted to check if we should delay things ;-)
<seb128> it seems those are mostly small tasks though
<seb128> so you might have them under control but I wanted to check with you
<RAOF> Yup.  I've now got 4/21 done, and the X server transition is done, as is mesa.
<seb128> I also wanted to know if you are tracking the kernel team items
<seb128> I've noticed, great work on the transitions btw!
<RAOF> I haven't been tracking the kernel team items very closely, just every now and then.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> those seems investigation rather than maverick changes
<seb128> could you still try to get an update to know if they still have those on their radars?
<seb128> no hurry, when you have time in the next week
<RAOF> I'll talk to apw.  There are a couple of maverick changes that could come as a result of their investigations.
<seb128> RAOF, do you need some help on anything or should we look at moving some work items to alpha3 or do you think you have things under control?
<RAOF> I think I've got things under control.
<seb128> ok, great
<seb128> I was mainly checking in case you need help or to have some item rescheduled
<seb128> RAOF, thanks
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
<seb128> we are on the trend line today ;-)
<RAOF> The biggest remaining WI deliverable to the archive is the -intel DDX for i8xx cards, either forward-porting an old DDX and throwing it in universe or re-adding an old codepath to the new DDX so that 8xx cards don't die.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems wayland could be quite some work as well
<RAOF> Wayland is the thing most likely to slip, yeah.
<seb128> that would be fine, we don't rely on it for maverick
<seb128> so if we get it a bit later that's fine as well
<RAOF> Right.  It's only going to end up in a PPA for developers to play with.
<seb128> and other changes seem mostly investigation, talking to other people, updating tools and documentation
<RAOF> There's at least one intel hacker interested in re-introducing an old, non-flaming-death codepath for the poor old i8xx cards, so we might get a better outcome than we were dreading at UDS :)
<RAOF> That's right.
<seb128> which shouldn't be an issue either for alpha2
<seb128> RAOF, nice for the i8xx cards ;-)
<seb128> RAOF, anyway it seems things look good for alpha2, great work
<RAOF> Ooh!  Dinner has been called!
<seb128> RAOF, thanks for the update
<seb128> RAOF, enjoy your dinner
<RAOF> Catch you later :)
<seb128> see you
<seb128>  
<seb128> ok
<seb128> who knows hiw way with dh7 there?
<seb128> how do you make it call dh_girepository
<seb128> ?
<pitti> seb128: as an addon? or in a particular package?
<seb128> pitti, in a package
<pitti> if you wnat to run it after e. g. dh_install, you could write something like
<pitti> override_dh_install:
<pitti>     dh_install
<pitti>     dh_girrepository
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> trying that
<pitti> seb128: "man dh", FTR
<seb128> pitti, thanks, I tried man dh7 and man debhelper
<seb128> the first one didn't work and the second didn't have what I wanted
<Sarvatt> ickle seems open to taking that lcdfilter patch for cairo upstream by the way
<Sarvatt> (Chris Wilson)
<seb128> Sarvatt, oh, nice
<seb128> it was briefly upstream
<seb128> and they reverted it because it was breaking some testsuite cases
<seb128> that was before 1.8
<asac> Riddell: hey, can you ping me and alf__ when you have a few minutes to talk about qt and embedded packaging ;)?
<Riddell> asac: ping
<asac> Riddell: hey
<asac> Riddell: so ... we are thinking what we can do for qt-embedded packaging this cycle ... and of course need your input on our ideas
<asac> Riddell: so qt-embedded needs a different soname - upstream said they will suggest one so that fine. i wonder if you would feel comfortable to make a two run build out of the qt package
<asac> or rather want this to live in a separate source package (copied source)
<Riddell> asac: my initial thought is that qt takes quite long enough to build as it is so separate source packages would be best
<asac> Riddell: so ... our idea is to make the basic embedded qt stack available in the archive, but then run a ppa for now that has the apps ported to it (probably until lighthouse comes out ... which upstream said they will do a proper sonaming for  etc)
<asac> Riddell: however, i wonder if there some kind of "inner-ring" libraries that you would think are essential and we should also make available as embedded packages
<Riddell> asac: do you have paticular apps in mind?
<Riddell> asac: qtwebkit is split out into a separate source package in maverick so that's an obvious inner-ring
<Riddell> possibly phonon too since that's a supported Qt API
<asac> Riddell: havent decided on that yet; we first want to bring the dev/sdk environment up to speed
<asac> Riddell: but alf__ tested a few qt apps and they apparently just built and worked
<asac> we havent went up to kde yet obviously
<asac> guess kdelibs would be inner ring too ;) ... though i doubt thats really easy to do ;)
<asac> alf__: ^^ ... so we should also keep qtwebkit in mind and phonon
<asac> Riddell: did the qtwebkit split already happened?
<Riddell> yes
<asac> Riddell: do you expect that the libs etc. from maverick are easy to backport for lucid (during alphas having alucid packages for arm often helps as there are times where you cannot produce images etc. from the moving dev release)
<Riddell> asac: they're easy to backport yes, we have backports in kubuntu-ppa/beta for KDE 4.5 beta backports
<asac> great. that makes things even easier
<asac> Riddell: should i send alf__ to you or someone else from your team for reviewing/sponsoring when he is done with the qt-embedded lib etc.?
<asac> (i will take a first look before, but i think its better if some "qt" expert does the sanity checking)
<Riddell> asac: sure, he's always welcome on #kubuntu-devel
<asac> nice ;)
<asac> didrocks: do you have good connections to mutter devs for upstreaming?
<didrocks> asac: I 've post some patches to them, but I don't personnally know them, why?
<asac> didrocks: just wonder if we have an established channel or if should rather go on my own ;)
<didrocks> asac: you can go on your own, will be the same than me trying :)
<asac> heh ok
<mpt> mdz, hi, you asked on design.canonical.com why Ubuntu didn't offer to install Flash for the user test participants. The answer is bug 161818.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 161818 in ubufox (Ubuntu) "firefox flash-plugin automatic installation fails on youtube (affects: 6) (dups: 2) (heat: 46)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161818
<didrocks> mpt: hey, did you have some time to work on oneconf USC design yesterday?
<mpt> didrocks, no sorry, it was #3 on my list and I didn't get to it, but it's now moved up to #2
<didrocks> yeah \o/ ;)
<didrocks> mpt: no worry, it was just to get this moving as alpha2 is pretty closed now. As long as you can give it a look this week, it will be ok, I hope :)
<mdz> mpt: ah, thanks. so they always encountered flash first on Youtube, eh?
<mpt> mdz, I don't know (I wasn't in the test), but the bug affects people visiting any Web site that uses Adobe's recommended method of detecting Flash.
<mpt> Not just YouTube.
<soren> mpt: do you have a link to those recommendations?
<mpt> soren, it's in the bug report
<soren> mpt: ah, thanks.
<tydeas> test
<soren> mpt: So it seems that people always get pointed to http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/. Perhaps we could intercept people's attempts to access that and offer them the better way?
<didrocks> soren: some kind of "if url ==". That sounds sweet :)
<asac> didrocks: one question: why is mutter packaged as a native package :(
<mpt> soren, ideally we'd intercept it earlier than that, but that would certainly be better than nothing.
<didrocks> asac: hum, you mean? the version is 2.31.2-2ubuntu3 and the debian directory is in mutter_2.31.2-2ubuntu3.diff.gz, no?
<asac> didrocks: whatever i copied from the unity ppa was a native package :(
<asac> if you say its ok in archive then i am fine ;)
<didrocks> asac: previous one was, because of dx packaging, but last one shouldn't, let me check
<didrocks> asac: hum, ok, I didn't push the last version to the UNE ppa (it's the same level of patch though), so yeah, it was native for dx daily build as patch inlined
<didrocks> asac: I will update this Thursday mutter in the UNE ppa with maverick version. Same level of functionality (same patches), but at least, a real working version
<asac> ok let me know. i will happily adopt that ;)
<asac> didrocks: is there a good way to test mutter without unity that you would suggest?
<didrocks> asac: you can run it into your GNOME session with mutter --replace
<asac> ok will try that
<asac> wonder what happens if i do that in efl ;)
<didrocks> that can be nice to test ^^
<asac> didrocks: how can i re-replace that back?
<asac> metacity --replace?
<didrocks> maybe in a tty is safer for killing the process easily with DISPLAY=:1
<didrocks> right
<asac> heh
<didrocks> or even compiz --replace if you trust the non working 3D card :)
<asac> dont ask for too much ;)
<asac> yay
<asac> it works!!!
<asac> artifacts and weird focus issues
<asac> but it works ;)
<asac> not really that many artifacts; just the mouse pointer/caret has a background colored box around it and isnt transparent
<didrocks> asac: sounds awesome :)
<didrocks> asac: how does the shiny effects are behaving?
<didrocks> not too slow?
<asac> didrocks: i dont know if i see the shiny effects ;)
<didrocks> asac: you have some zoomout/zoomin while reducing/maximizing windows
<asac> didrocks: hmm. i have -efl... there is no minimizing
<didrocks> asac: closing maybe? you have a zoom out IIRC
<asac> now my board hangs ;)
<didrocks> (on the window itself)
<didrocks> urgh :-)
<asac> let me reboot and try to log into a gnome session or something
<asac> wonder if i have gnome session installed
<asac> (this thing only has 256m)
<didrocks> humâ¦ let's cross the fingers it will start ^^
<asac> yep
<asac> didrocks: zooming in and out works with desktop session ;)
<didrocks> asac: awesome! :)
<asac> but killing mutter kills the board reliably ;)
 * didrocks cross fingers for unity to behave the same so :)
<didrocks> argh :)
<asac> for unity we have to make clutk a decent piece of software first ;)
<didrocks> asac: ask to njpatel :)
<asac> didrocks: already did. he redirected me to jay ;)
<didrocks> ahah ^^
<asac> but jay seems to hide today ;)
<asac> as if he knew what was coming
<didrocks> don't trust French people running away from France, they can feel when things can go badly for them :-)
<didrocks> seb128: rhythmbox upstream has a fix in trunk for the crash we saw yesterday
<seb128> didrocks, a workaround, yes
<seb128> didrocks, the issue seems a pygobject one
<didrocks> right, a workaround
<seb128> didrocks, don't bother backporting it
<seb128> I will do a rhythmbox snapshot update in the next days
<didrocks> seb128: ok, perfect! Thanks :)
<seb128> np
<seb128> didrocks, thank you for bringing that upstream and the f-spot issue as well
<seb128> and yes I'm watching you ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson, seb128: so what's the status of firefox and those langpacks? do I have a todo item for copying those to -proposed/-updates or who will?
 * didrocks returns and look at his back
<seb128> pitti, they need to go to security
<didrocks> seb128: no, you aren't there! How do you do?
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> pitti, but when firefox 3.6.4 will be available from mozilla which is still not the case I think?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
<pitti> seb128: ok, so those are on hold for now; the copying to the moz ppa was done, I take it?
<seb128> pitti, I would appreciate if you could do the copy on time
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, they are in the moz ppa right now
<seb128> pitti, they will be copied with the security update
<pitti> seb128: I can, but I'd appreciate if someone could poke me when ffox gets copied over
<seb128> I guess jdstrand or whoever does the copy will copy all together
<pitti> seb128: it'd be the very same process as copying ffox itself
<pitti> right, that seems easiest
<pitti> instead of doing it by two different persons, I mean
<seb128> pitti, so no todo item for you ;-)
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> I was just wondering what to do with ArneGoetje's mails, but seems that it's being handled
 * pitti hugs you all
<pitti> you see, nobody is missing me :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> oh, we do!
 * didrocks hugs pitti, we miss you
<seb128> pitti, but good point about ArneGoetje's emails, chrisccoulson said he would reply to those some days ago
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ did you copy the extra langpacks from those emails to the mozilla ppa? could you reply to the email saying where we stand with those updates?
<pitti> seb128: I did reply with "waiting for fffox to go to -security"
<seb128> thanks
<desrt> robert ancell and myself are in incredibly incompatible timezones...
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti - i don't think you need to do anything with the langpacks do you? they're currently in the u-m-s PPA, and they just get copied to -security with the security update don't they?
<chrisccoulson> (i think that's how it's working)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, that's we concluded as well there
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i uploaded those extra langpacks but forgot to send an e-mail ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you confirm you did grab the updated ones ArneGoetje listed some days ago?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no news of the update from mozilla yet?
<chrisccoulson> not yet, but i think it will happen quite soon
<chrisccoulson> i'm hoping to have karmic in a state that can be tested by tomorrow
<seb128> ok
<rickspencer3> tremolux, hey
<tremolux> rickspencer3: hey Rick
<rickspencer3> tremolux, I see mpt created a design for new apps
<rickspencer3> and you have a work item to implement it
<rickspencer3> does it seem feasible to get it done for A2?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: looking
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yep, it's feasible for A2
<kenvandine> sucks not being able to read twitter dev docs because of fail whale!
<tremolux> rickspencer3: I should qualify that; we may not have it pixel-perfect for A2, but to have the section there displaying the apps should be doable
<rickspencer3> tremolux, could you add a work item such as "refine implementation to match specs" to A3?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: yes, good idea
<jcastro> hey kenvandine, have you been following the twitter api thing ryan is concerned about?
<nessita> hello everyone
<rickspencer3> hi nessita, 'sup?
<nessita> rickspencer3: hey there! just now I remember chipaca told me to talk with you about the agenda in the next sprint in prague
<nessita> seb128: about the package I uploaded yesterday (ubuntu-sso-client), do I have to do any further steps? I uploaded an update to https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<kenvandine> jcastro, yes... we are stressed about getting that resolved and SRU'd
<nessita> seb128: would you be able to sponsor it?
<nessita> rickspencer3: not sure what "talk about the agenda" means, but maybe you know :-)
<rickspencer3> I don't know :/
<seb128> nessita, hi, sorry I'm quite busy with other things right now
<nessita> seb128: no problem, would you know who can be able to do it?
<nessita> rickspencer3: heh, I ask Chipaca then
<fta> Sarvatt, excellent. let me know if you have ideas to improve it, or if you need more info on the page
<blue_anna> I'm having a problem with empathy client crashing on incoming voice calls (but not outbound)
<blue_anna> someone suggested upgrading libpurple, another libtelepathy -- do you know if I should try one, or the other, or both?
<didrocks> alf__: I would say, don't bump the ABI if upstream doesn't do it. Can you convince them to remove the exposal of json_*, force the external dep and so bump the soname?
<fta> Sarvatt, i will probably add a popup for the Repositories, instead of just an "X". and i probably need to cache the data between sessions, so it's faster to update. btw, how often do you update it?
<blue_anna> well I'm just going to guess
<alf__> didrocks: I can try :) but I don't expect they will. According to them, the internal json-glib is not supposed to be used by distributions.
<didrocks> alf__: another solution is to look at rdepends :)
<didrocks> blue_anna: try on #ubuntu
<alf__> didrocks: To see if anyone really uses the exported json_* functions?
<blue_anna> I did -- but since I got conflicting advice about which libs were involved I thought I'd try to get it clarified here
<didrocks> alf__: right, in the internal dependency
<alf__> didrocks: internal dependency?
<didrocks> alf__: sorry, I meant "to check if they use the internal json-glib"
<didrocks>  apt-cache rdepends libclutter-1.0-0 is not that scary
<tremolux> rickspencer3: ping for a question about the Software Center update section of the weekly status
<rickspencer3> tremolux, sure?
<rickspencer3> 'sup?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: would you like that to be more a summary of the status of things, or just to highlight what's happened during the week?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: meaning, if it's a summary, then unchanged items will be repeated
<rickspencer3> tremolux, what happened during the week
<rickspencer3> share info people need
<tremolux> rickspencer3: ok, sounds good
<tremolux> rickspencer3: thx
<didrocks> tremolux: for "hiding non app" by default, once you are in the featured app view, you get "19 other technical item", and when you click on it, nothing happen (I just think there is no technical item in the category and apps are counted as such). Known bug?
<tremolux> didrocks: yes, known bug  :(
<tremolux> didrocks: I have to write it up still
<didrocks> tremolux: ok, just to be sure, thanks :)
<tremolux> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> you're welcome ;)
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks for handling the meeting
<rickspencer3> I'll be back online for a bit in like an hour or less
<seb128> hey everybody
<didrocks> hey seb128
<ArneGoetje> hi
<seb128> ArneGoetje, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, pitti, tkamppeter: hello
<seb128> did I forget anybody?
<tremolux> hi everybody
<seb128> rick is not available for the meeting today
<seb128> so I'm going to lead this one
<seb128> I hope everybody had a good weekend and start of week ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-15
<seb128> so, previous meeting actions, oneconf
<seb128> I guess everybody has been busy and there was not happening there?
<seb128> didrocks, ^ did you get any feedback this week?
<didrocks> I saw tremolux did some testing
<didrocks> but I hadn't any feedback, unfortunately
<seb128> tremolux, thanks for helping didrocks there ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, you might want to try emailing the ubuntu-desktop list
<tremolux> yes, I started some testing but got bogged with other things, I will do more this week tho
<seb128> or ubuntu-devel-discuss
<seb128> I guess it will be easier to get feedback this way
<didrocks> will email the list so :)
<pitti> TBH it's the first time I hear "oneconf"
<seb128> pitti, it's on the meeting agenda for 3 weeks now
<tremolux> didrocks: I realize it's important that I test it because of the integration with s-c, so I will make it a priority
<seb128> pitti, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneConf/Testing
<pitti> seb128: sorry
<Riddell> hi
<didrocks> tremolux: thanks a lot :) users seem more interesting than developers :)
 * kenvandine waves... sorry  mission-control-5 had my laptop pegged
<seb128> pitti, no need to be sorry, you don't have to watch what's happening there ;-)
<seb128> hey Riddell, kenvandine
<seb128> ok, moving on
<seb128> kenvandine, just on time, it's your turn
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> ok, for DX... appmenu stuff is in main... yay
<kenvandine> and hopefully will be by default in UNE this week
<seb128> thanks tedg, bratsche, kenvandine, jcastro for the work on this
<kenvandine> and seb128 :)
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> indicator-network should make it to universe this week, but we won't put it in main yet
<kenvandine> it lacks any way to control settings if you have problems
<kenvandine> so that will happen in a3
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's see how it goes when it's universe
<kenvandine> indicator-sound goodies should land this week, should be nice
<seb128> nice
<kenvandine> on to OLS, their first week of weekly releases went well afaik
<kenvandine> they uploaded everything they planned to :)
<seb128> rock on!
<seb128> go ols go!
<kenvandine> they will be decommitting some of their a2 WIs
<kenvandine> more to come soon
<kenvandine> still discussing it
<kenvandine> i think that is all i have for now
<seb128> ok
<kenvandine> any questions/comments?
<seb128> thanks kenvandine
<seb128> just a note, current appmenu is in main but still quite buggy
<seb128> they are working actively on it
<seb128> so maybe wait for next update round to test it
<kenvandine> seb128, you getting that gtk patch in maverick?
<kenvandine> i uploaded it to the une ppa for lucid
<seb128> kenvandine, yes, will upload after the meeting
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> np
<seb128> does anybody has questions or comments?
<seb128> I guess it's a no
<seb128> let's move on
<seb128> Riddell, hey
<seb128> Riddell, kubuntu update?
<Riddell>  - KDE SC 4.5 Beta 2 in, still compiling on arm
<Riddell>  - MIRs needed: avogadro, openjpeg, librcps, create-resources, rekonq, pstoedit, getfem++, libspnav, plotutils
<Riddell>  - pulseaudio added to Kubuntu by default
<Riddell> would be nice to get those MIRs before alpha 2
<seb128> urg
<seb128> I don't know if rick managed to get anything done for those
<seb128> asac, pitti: ^ where do we stand for mirs? I guess not active reviewer right now?
<Riddell> some of those asac looked at in lucid but we never completed because we decided to keep koffice in universe
<seb128> we waved in the unity stack since it's work coming from us but other items are queuing
<pitti> I gave up on MIRs since I still have to do a lot on SRUs; asac kindly agreed to take over the role of assigning incoming MIRs to reviewers
<seb128> ok
<seb128> Riddell, I will check with rickspencer3 and asac after meeting what we can do to unblock those
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> does anybody has comments or questions for Riddell?
<seb128> pitti, ok, fair enough
<seb128> ok, moving on
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<seb128> UNE update?
<didrocks> Unity is now the defaut on UNE maverick CD!
<didrocks> The transition should be effective for lucid -> maverick UNE upgrade and lucid UNE ppa -> maverick
<didrocks> The CD size is scary though, considering that we even don't have all the components in place (and most of them will land post alpha2 :/) (same size than amd64 image btw)
<didrocks> New release on Thursday (late), the release will be a little bit sooner and backport to UNE lucid ppa on Friday.
<didrocks> Apart from that, there is a wiki page stating how to test Unity on lucid and on maverick: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Unity
 * didrocks will add a oneconf link to it (kidding) :)
<kenvandine> off topic... holy crap my ~/.mission-control/accounts.cfg file is 512M!
<seb128> unity \o/
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> kenvandine, -> #telepathy ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<didrocks> (that's it for me, if nobody has questions :))
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> nicely done for unity
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> the upgrade went just fine there
<tremolux> very cool didrock
<tremolux> s
<seb128> ok, moving on
<didrocks> yeah, if anybody has some issues in upgrading scenario, do not hesitate to bug me!
<seb128> tremolux, hey
<seb128> software center update?
<tremolux> hey
<seb128> I see you copied one on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-15
<tremolux> sure, warning, wordy paste incoming:
<tremolux> New Apps on a Stable Release: mpt has completed the design and spec for discovery/presentation of new apps here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Lobby%20screen
<tremolux> we can begin implementing the new functionality this week
<tremolux> Buy Something: we had an overview of the payments API from Ricardo Kirkner including a walkthrough of the process, it was really helpful
<tremolux> I've started prototyping a payments widget to learn/test/use the API
<tremolux> Also, mvo's basic LP integration is in place now (in the most recent release), it's still in-development so will be hidden by default at next Software Center release
<tremolux> (sort of summarizing)  ;)
 * didrocks is eager to play with that :)
<seb128> nice summary
<seb128> and nice changes coming ;-)
<tremolux> yeah, lots of stuff starting to happen for these  :)
<seb128> thank tremolux
<seb128> that's great work!
<seb128> does anybody has comments or questions for tremolux?
<tremolux> thanks seb128
<seb128> ok, let's say it's a no, moving on
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<chrisccoulson> hi
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I forgot to ask you before, but could you do an update on the firefox work for us?
<seb128> where do we stand? what issues do we still have?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can give a brief update
<seb128> thanks
<chrisccoulson> hardy is pretty much done, with the exception of a few xulrunner rdepends yet to be ported. micahg is working on those, although they aren't high priority
<chrisccoulson> all the issues i know about are either now resolved or have a fix in waiting
<seb128> nice
<seb128> the font issue got fixed then?
<chrisccoulson> i hope to be able to get karmic in to a state to start testing tomorrow
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i've got a fix for the font issue
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> karmic ready for testing, nice
<chrisccoulson> i'm just getting the langpacks for karmic uploaded now
<seb128> so we are almost "there"
<chrisccoulson> firefox, xulrunner 1.9.2 and ubufox were uploaded today
<seb128> I'm sure you will be glad once those will be out ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we're pretty much there now. i hope to be able to start winding down from this at the end of the week
<seb128> is there still versions to land or test after karmic?
<chrisccoulson> there will be jaunty too, but firefox is already uploaded for jaunty
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks chrisccoulson
<seb128> great work!
<chrisccoulson> thanks for helping out with the testing too :)
<tremolux> chrisccoulson: I think you know; I did some upgrade testing on my hardy netbook, it all worked fine for me
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you still need extra testing for those updates you think? do we need to do another call for testing?
<chrisccoulson> awesome!
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we should do another call for testing when jaunty and karmic are ready, but i think hardy is ok now
<tremolux> that's cool, gotta feel good
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks chrisccoulson
<seb128> let's move on
<seb128> hum, seems it's my turn
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-desktop-team-maverick-alpha-2.html
<seb128> so we are approching alpha2
<seb128> and we just got back on the trend line
<seb128> thanks everybody for updating your workitems!
<seb128> the line goes until july 1st but changes should land for next week
<seb128> ie june 24th
<seb128> then we have some margin for tweaking, fixing and documentation
<seb128> seems we are on shape for a2 though
<seb128> I've already discussed workitems with team members out of the meeting mostly so no point to go through specs again there I think
<seb128> if anybody has anything you want to discuss you are welcome to comment or ask questions now though
<seb128> questions? comments?
 * didrocks yeah for being on the trend line \o/
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, let's move on
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> who plans to go to GUADEC there?
<didrocks> o/
<seb128> seems we lag a bit behind on organization but I talked to rick today
<seb128> we will get an update for the team about registration and organization details
<kenvandine> not me
<seb128> I would just like to have an idea of who is going now
<seb128> so didrocks
<seb128> I'm going as well
<seb128> rick is going
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not sure if you planned to go?
<jcastro> (remember guadec starts on wednesday this year!)
<seb128> the 2 days before are conference days as well though
<seb128> but not real GUADEC days
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i hadn't thought about it actually
<chrisccoulson> do you think it's worth for me to go?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, this week would be time to think about it ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not so much for your main tasks
<seb128> but you have bit doing quite some desktop and GNOME work
<seb128> and it's in Europe
<seb128> so it's close enough
<seb128> chrisccoulson, let's chat after meeting if you want
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I think that was it from me or the agenda
<seb128> is any having anything to add?
<seb128> questions, comments, announces?
<didrocks> I want to speak about banshee by default on UNE
<didrocks> just to grab some inputs
<didrocks> (no jcastro it's not the time to say +1, want 2 minutes ;))
<didrocks> so, from the tests this week:
<didrocks> IMHO banshee is feature-wise like for netbook user I guess (some corner cases like Upnp support missing, but netbook user can be considered having less need than desktop ones)
<didrocks> There is an indicator integration (currently broken in maverick because of indicator sharp bindings) and Bertrand will work on SoundMenuV2 integration
<didrocks> There is also the ubuntu music store plugin, it misses the "first time mp3 support download support" though.
<didrocks> There is an extension which gives a netbook interface (used in meego). This one is great but needs some tweaking to get to our needs. For instance, you can't import music from there
<didrocks> You have also the two interfaces (netbook and traditional ones) launched in the same time, which isn't great
<didrocks> So, little tweaking needed to integrate that to ubuntu (maybe something like 3/4 days of work). That can worth it into my mind.
<didrocks> Those are basically a switcher between the 2 modes, not showing both interfaces per default, rename of the panel title, activate some library by default, and some lavels, ubuntuone plugin adjustement, and radio music list per default.
<didrocks> They can be some issues with exporting the menu (they are using there own tweaks), but we'll have to figure this out in any case.
<didrocks> so, for me, banshee by default on UNE is a +1, any other thoughts/remarks?
<didrocks> jcastro: do you think there a way we can encourage the community to make the netbook panel more integrated to ubuntu?
<kenvandine> jcastro, if anyone can get it done.. it's you man!
<didrocks> s/lavels/labels of course :)
 * didrocks feels lonely suddenly ;-)
<seb128> heh
<seb128> do you think we could get input from design or user testing on the netbook ui?
<jcastro> didrocks: sure, I just need a list of things you need (which I think we discussed last week for a minute)
<seb128> I guess the netbook frontend is the main reason why we would like to use banshee
<didrocks> seb128: design is very busy from what I understood, I would maybe go for some hacks, and then, have some feedback to get things moving
<didrocks> jcastro: right, I have a more detail list, I will make it understandable and forward it to you tomorrow
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> for the netbook ui
<didrocks> it's really good for small screen
<didrocks> it doesn't handle video by design though, only music
<kenvandine> didrocks,  and good for touch screen, right?
<didrocks> kenvandine: better than rhythmbox or default ui. But it will require still some work
<didrocks> but for instance, by default, you have nothing listed in it
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: looking at bug #590619, I'm wondering how long you've had since last reboot. My file is only 3.4K.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 590619 in telepathy-mission-control-5 (Ubuntu) "Unreasonable memory usage (affects: 1) (heat: 488)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/590619
<didrocks> saw, enabling the "auto import from Music and Videos" and write: "drop some files in Music/ so that it appears here" is an easy patch
<kenvandine> i think almost all of the file is one line from the old haze plugin implementation of the facebook chat plugin
<seb128> didrocks, I guess we can try to enable banshee by default on UNE and wait on comments?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, seems reasonable. I want to hack for the end of the week on what I can do for the ui
<didrocks> so, seeding it eow or beginning of next seems ok
<didrocks> (and so, alpha2 with it)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: OK, so workaround being to remove accounts.config and setup your accounts again.  or is there something less destructive of that file?
<kenvandine> yay
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i tried that it and it fixed the problem... but not sure if that entry was the problem
<seb128> ok
<seb128> seems there is not a lot of comments
<seb128> and bcurtiswx and kenvandine are hijacking the meeting now to discuss bugs
<kenvandine> sorry :)
<seb128> so let's wrap up
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, let's try to get banshee by default and see how it goes
<seb128> only for UNE
<seb128> don't misquote that ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<bcurtiswx> seb128: apologies, didn't know there was a meeting
<didrocks> seb128: sweet, will do :-)
 * kenvandine only hears what he wants to hear
<seb128> bcurtiswx, no worry
<seb128> thanks everybody
<didrocks> kenvandine: fix the indicator mono binding first :p
<seb128> see you next week
<kenvandine> thx seb128... banshee by default :)
<tremolux> thanks everyone!
<seb128> keep rocking, alpha2 shapes to be a solid alpha version ;-)
<didrocks> thanks everyone :)
<seb128> kenvandine, lol
 * didrocks marks evaluate banshee by default on UNE as DONE :-)
<tremolux> didrocks: \o/
<jcastro> didrocks: I will make the U1 banshee eval as done!
<seb128> didrocks, waouh!
<didrocks> jcastro: sweet :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, so I don't think my desktopcouch databases are syncing between my lucid netbook and maverisk desktop
<rickspencer3> is there a known problem, or should I troubleshoot when I get home?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, not known
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ok, I'll poke at it later
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> oh, rickspencer3 is back
<seb128> hey rickspencer3 ;-)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, how big is accounts.cfg for me?
<kenvandine> s/me/you
<bcurtiswx> 3.4K
<rickspencer3> seb128, I'll be here for a few minutes, then gone again
<rickspencer3> just here long enough to be disruptive and randomizing
<seb128> rickspencer3, be as disruptive as you want, we finished the meeting ;-)
 * bcurtiswx wasn't any help to that
<rickspencer3> seb128, can you repeat the main points of the meeting?
<rickspencer3> j/k
<seb128> rickspencer3, we agree that everybody would be on holidays for the next 2 weeks and that you would handle alpha2
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> rickspencer3, that was about it I think ;-)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<rickspencer3> I knew I could count on you
<seb128> always happy to serve you and the team!
<didrocks> I agree, my logs clearly state that :)
<chrisccoulson> right, karmic langpacks are uploading now
<chrisccoulson> that will take a while, so I'm going to disappear for a bit to go and buy some network cable
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, nice!
<tremolux> chrisccoulson: man, you surely do know how to have a good time!  ;)
<tremolux> chrisccoulson: (network cable adventure)
<chrisccoulson> lol ;)
<chrisccoulson> i need to try and hook my printer up to my router, and i thought i could also do with hooking my docking station up to the router too (in preparation for breaking networking i start testing connman)
<sabdfl> hi seb128, i've bumped https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/16492 to high, would you review unclutter for MIR and CD and provide feedback and thoughts?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 16492 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 3 other projects) "Mouse pointer should disappear when keyboard is in use and mouse isn't (affects: 18) (heat: 111)" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> sabdfl, hey
<seb128> sabdfl, unclutter is in main already it seems
<seb128> sabdfl, I will review it for default installation
<sabdfl> thanks seb128, much appreciate feedback either way
<sabdfl> only complication is it needs to be in the session to be effective by default, aiui
<sabdfl> open to other/better solutions to the bug
<seb128> well, it seems something xorg itself should handle to me
<seb128> but I don't know enough about the topic to comment on why it's not the case and what it would take to get xorg doing it
<seb128> I will review what unclutter is doing and talk with our xorg team about that though
<seb128> sabdfl, I will keep you updated, thanks for raising the topic
<seb128> rickspencer3, did you have time to do something about the mir issue?
<seb128> rickspencer3, seems kubuntu is blocked on it for alpha2 work
<fta> tedg, kenvandine: i have the power manager set to never display its icon, yet, the indicator applet recently started to display one (it's a real desktop, i don't need a battery indicator). is that already a known bug?
<seb128> fta, yes
<seb128> fta, if you use maverickf
<fta> yes
<seb128> fta, the set_icon call has been broken in the most recent indicator-application update
<seb128> ie icons will not change in the indicator right now
<fta> seb128, ok, thanks. if it's already tracked, i'm happy :)
<seb128> it is
<fta> excellent
<kenvandine> :)
 * kenvandine eats... bbiab
<seb128> didrocks, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection
<didrocks> seb128: yes?
<seb128> didrocks, where did you get a request to evaluate nautilus?
<dobey> hey seb128; do you know what rule to specify in debian/rules to run "make check" under during the build, for example?
<didrocks> seb128: it was a question on the "request feedback" LP features. However, when you answer those, it removes the question apparently
<seb128> dobey, what packaging system?
<didrocks> seb128: the question was "will nautilus still be there?"
<seb128> didrocks, oh ok
<dobey> seb128: hrmm? cdbs
<dobey> (i guess that's what you're asking)
<seb128> dobey, yes ;-)
<fta> dobey, DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET=check
<fta> or test, or whatever your check target is called
<seb128> dobey, what fta says
<dobey> fta: what about for python then?
<seb128> fta, thanks, I was searching for it ;-)
<fta> not sure python has that, let me check
<soren> DEB_MAKE_CHECK_TARGET is defined by class/autotools.mk
<fta> nope, it's just implemented for makefile, autotools and perl
<soren> it's not there if only debhelper and python-distutils are included.
<soren> Err... I'm full of it.
<soren> It's used in class/makefile.mk
<fta> both autotools and perl* include makefile.mk and it's there
<soren> ...but still, if only debhelper and python-distutils are included, it's not used.
<soren> fta: Right.
<fta> it's trivial to add though
<soren> Certainly.
<fta> but it's often not needed for python as it could be done in setup.py
<bcurtiswx> maverick uploads from debian-unstable or -experimental?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: auto-sync is from unstable
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any time for a non firefox task?
<bcurtiswx> micahg: do you know how a package makes it from -experimental to -unstable?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: do you want to merge something?
<bcurtiswx> the new empathy is in -experimental
<micahg> bcurtiswx: stuff can be merged from experimental as needed, but seb128 or someone else would have to approve that I think
<seb128> bcurtiswx, we don't plan to update GNOME this cycle
<seb128> bcurtiswx, we will get GNOME3 over 2 cycles
<seb128> bcurtiswx, we will take empathy later on if they clarify they will not require gtk3
<dobey> seb128, fta: thanks, it at least put me in the right place to look to do it for my python package :)
<bcurtiswx> seb128: OK, hmm.  Thx.  Maybe I'll learn to package from a source build and provide empathy for those interested in a PPA until it requires GTK3
<seb128> bcurtiswx, isn't the empathy team doing that?
<bcurtiswx> seb128: the telepathy team you mean.. right?
<bcurtiswx> seb128: the telepathy team has a PPA, yes.
<seb128> isn't that the same team?
<seb128> but right, them
<bcurtiswx> seb128: yeah, i guess i never heard it referred specifically as the empathy team.. but its the same..
<seb128> I think they will do 2.31 builds if we don't
<baptistemm_> hi there
<baptistemm_> pedro_, hi, could you renew my membership to ubuntu-bugcontrol ?
<pedro_> baptistemm_, hey, yes let me have a look
<baptistemm_> when you have time
<pedro_> baptistemm_, renewed
<baptistemm_> thanks a lot
<pedro_> you're welcome
<dobey> why the heck is my clock applet freezing
<bcurtiswx> local temporal anomoly in subspace?
<bcurtiswx> </being a goof>
<LaserJock> didrocks: is there a particular reason why the UNE PPA has a newer Qt?
<didrocks> LaserJock: it's for the appmenu testing
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> didrocks: geeze, it's almost impossible to "uninstall" Unity on lucid
<didrocks> LaserJock: what do you mean? you have to downgrade the upgraded package, and remove unity packages, isn't it?
<LaserJock> yeah, but it won't downgrade
<LaserJock> too many interdependencies that want to wipe out all of gtk
<LaserJock> it must be the "transition" plan for the new world order ;-)
<didrocks> LaserJock: well, the appmenu things brings a lot, right :-)
<LaserJock> perhaps it should have its own PPA
<didrocks> but apt-cache policy and apt-get install lib=<â¦> FTW :)
<didrocks> we discussed that a lot, but we think that people wanting to test should have the full maverick experience
<didrocks> (an easy way to get it)
<jcastro> LaserJock: I should make a note in the wiki about that.
<didrocks> jcastro: some big red blinking warning? :)
<LaserJock> from that PPA I have 129 .debs listed
<LaserJock> that's a rather large PPA
<bcurtiswx> seb128: Zdra in #empathy on gimpnet  says he doesn't think they will require gtk3.0 this cycle
<didrocks> 129?
<didrocks> yeah, but there are binary one whith different version
<didrocks> oh qtâ¦
<didrocks> maybe it has a lot of packages
<bcurtiswx> seb128: but its my word, idk what you would need to make desktop team feel better about including empathy this cycle
<didrocks> LaserJock: right, qt ones have a lot, so if you have a qt app, it will upgrade a lot
<didrocks> (away for half an hour, bbiab)
<bcurtiswx> cya didrocks
<didrocks> cia bcurtiswx
<jcastro> LaserJock: didrocks: how's this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Unity
<jcastro> oops, pages->packages
<didrocks> jcastro: sounds great :)
<LaserJock> jcastro: I guess that'd work
<didrocks> the missing script is really a script to "clean" from a ppa for you, as xorg-edgers have. But as we don't really support downgrading, it should work for most cases
<LaserJock> I had to do: sudo apt-get install gtk2-engines-pixbuf=2.20.1-0ubuntu1 libgail-common=2.20.1-0ubuntu1 libgail18=2.20.1-0ubuntu1 libgtk2.0-0=2.20.1-0ubuntu1 libgtk2.0-dev=2.20.1-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> but we can still have cornercases where the behavior isn't exactly the same
<LaserJock> the rest I could remove/downgrade OK in synaptic
<didrocks> LaserJock: right, you can't say "for this source package, downgrade all binary ones to <version>"
<didrocks> that would be sweet as well :)
<LaserJock> normally I use synaptic
<LaserJock> but it wouldn't let me do those at the same time
<didrocks> I don't really know how that works with synaptic TBH
<didrocks> ok
<LaserJock> I didn't know you could do = with apt
<didrocks> well, now you know :)
<didrocks> (really away now)
<Zdra> bcurtiswx, seb128: Unless something force us to use gtk3.0 (which I doubt since libunique is going to be ported) I don't think we'll hard-dep on gtk3
<Zdra> IMO being shipped in ubuntu is by many order of amplitude more important for us than requiring gtk3
<bcurtiswx> :)
<seb128> Zdra, thanks
<seb128> Zdra, I think we will update, if you really needs to depends on gtk3 we will figure what to do
<seb128> Zdra, we can distro change to not require gtk3 or you can keep ifdef in the code maybe for this cycle
<Zdra> seb128, maybe wait for cassidy's confirmation as he is maintainer, but I think he agree with me on this :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> there is no hurry for it
<Zdra> since today we dep on gtk 2.21.2 and we build with GSeal and everything
<Zdra> so we should be gtk3-ready :p
<Zdra> once all our deps get ported too
<seb128> Zdra, right
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Good early morning!
<TheMuso> Indeed. Tis a lovely morning here in Sydney.
<RAOF> It's quite cold here (2â, apparently).
<RAOF> Hm.  Time to shift locations.  Apparently the electricians will want to be pulling the power up and down a lot today.v
<TheMuso> heh
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-16
<robert_ancell> no desktop meeting today?
<RAOF> No?  I'm not late for it, then?
<LaserJock> I think it was earlier
<LaserJock> or well, the early one was earlier :-)
<robert_ancell> I *think* it's Eastern edition now, according to my calendar
<RAOF> That would be the traditional time, yes.
<LaserJock> seb128 ran the Western edition
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I've been caught out by daylight savings at least once :)
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: You around for desktop team meeting eastern edition?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, yeah
<rickspencer3> sorry, otp
<rickspencer3> everything is running over
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, TheMuso sound ok?
<TheMuso> sure
<rickspencer3> RAOF, ?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> I'm now at a location where the power won't be turned off at arbitrary times :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, bonus!
<rickspencer3> so ...
<rickspencer3> I couldn't attend the main meeting
<rickspencer3> and I've been totally busy all day, so I haven't even looked at the meeting wiki :/
<rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso, robert_ancell given that I have no more context than the three of you, how do you suggest we proceed?
 * TheMuso decides to read the wiki page for now.
<robert_ancell> what was the wiki link?
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-06-15
<rickspencer3> it looks nicely filled in
<rickspencer3> tremolux, around at all?
<RAOF> Hm.  The indicator stuff reminds me - the ayatana mono bindings for the various libs have historically not been particularly Debian-cli policy compliant, with varying degrees of problems introduced by this.  I'd like to volunteer my assistance if people have CLI packaging questions - they're generally quite easy. :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ^
<RAOF> I also notice that we've now got libindicate mono bindings.  Yay! :)
<rickspencer3> I'm pretty sure that kenvandine rolled those
<robert_ancell> does anyone here know about webkit releases?  Will Maverick be using >1.2?
<TheMuso> I personally hope the latest is used to get accessibility improvements, but no idea what Maverick will end up using.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, TheMuso is webkit not part of Gnome?
<TheMuso> I think its an external dependency.
<RAOF> That was my understanding.
<rickspencer3> so, would that not fall to the Gnome maintainer to determine?
<rickspencer3> *cough* robert_ancell *cough*
<robert_ancell> external.  I'm not familiar with the release process though, and they don't have a well defined process on their webpage
<rickspencer3> fudge
<robert_ancell> so the latest yelp, which I want to try requires features of the latest version, but I'm not sure if that's stable
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you want the latest yelp for maverick?
<robert_ancell> I want to try it (I can't compile it atm), there's been a lot of help improvements lately
<rickspencer3> urk
<Sarvatt> sorry to be a pain, but is there any chance anyone is around that could sponsor a mesa upload? it's just a tiny fix putting the GL headers in the right place, anything building against them in the current package is failing - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/merges/mesa/
<Sarvatt> and here is the file list for the built debs to be sure its right - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/files-seven.txt
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: I'll take a look.
<Sarvatt> TheMuso: thanks yet again man, really appreciate the help
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: np
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: Ok just waiting for a test build. Once this is uploaded and built, please let me know what packages need rebuilding, and I can retry them for you.
<Sarvatt> thanks TheMuso, I'm not sure anything in the archive failed but I am checking now
<Sarvatt> checking everything that built since mesa since its possible things could just silently fail to enable GL support since there were no headers
<TheMuso> yep ok
<tremolux> rickspencer3: you rang?
<tremolux> rickspencer3: also, you said "fudge"
<Sarvatt> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libforms
<Sarvatt> found one so far
<Sarvatt> everyone and their mother pulls in xserver-xorg-dev, have to trawl through the build logs to be sure its not using it :)
<Sarvatt> (which pulls in mesa-common-dev)
<Sarvatt> nasty time to have a huge sync go through :(
<Sarvatt> 3 pages and i've only gone back an hour
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Ok still test building here, and even once I do upload it, it will take an hour at least before packages start showing up.
<Sarvatt> i'm 400 results in and its only going back 2 hours, broken mesa has been uploaded for like a day. eep
<TheMuso> Sarvatt: uploading.
<Sarvatt> another one that failed - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50404333/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.mrtrix_0.2.8-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Twill be a while before mesa is built everywhere, at least all arches are building it now.
<Sarvatt> ok searched through 1550 builds until i hit mesa and those two were the only problems, outside of libghc6-opengl which failed anyway since the base packages failed
<TheMuso> ok cool.
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> the bzr tree for the ubuntuone-client package isn't updated with last week's release.
<dobey> hrmm, and the lucid tree isn't updated with the SRU either
<dobey> TheMuso: you wouldn't have any idea why that might be, would you?
<TheMuso> dobey: Without digging, no I have no idea.
<dobey> ok
<kenvandine> RAOF, rickspencer3: would love to have someone look at those
<kenvandine> RAOF, i think directhex did the indicator-application mono bindings
<kenvandine> so should be debian-cli compliant
<kenvandine> i did the libindicate mono bindings, which are only like a week old :)
<dobey> TheMuso: looks like it just failed to import for some reason
<RAOF> kenvandine: I'll have a look at them if you like.
<TheMuso> dobey: RIght
<kenvandine> RAOF, awesome
<RAOF> I'd kinda like to patch smuxi into the indicator :)
<kenvandine> i think i fixed the packaging problems in the latest appindicator0.1-cil
<kenvandine> RAOF, cool!
<kenvandine> but there is a problem in the library still
<kenvandine> making them not work :/
<kenvandine> the last update to indicator-application broke the assembly version
<kenvandine> and the -cil-dev package was 0.1 and the -cil package was 0.0
<kenvandine> it was a mess...
<kenvandine> the dll was 0.1 but installed in the 0.0 dir and the .pc file was and .config file where pointing to 0.1
<kenvandine> so nothing was working!
<RAOF> :)
<kenvandine> but fixing that uncovered deeper breakage in libappindicator
<kenvandine> :/
<RAOF> The CLI is quite pendantic aboutâ¦ oh. :(
<kenvandine> RAOF, however... for smuxi all you need is libindicate
<kenvandine> which is available now... and should work :)
<RAOF> :)
<kenvandine> RAOF, i also just did mono bindings for libgwibber
<kenvandine> but none of that is packaged yet :)
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, what is the best way to give you a package for sponsorship that is not in bzr?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: If its a new upstrea release, then you probably need to upload the file set somewhere. If its a new revision without the need for a new orig tarball, a debdiff will do.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I never really got the whole debdiff process, I've uploaded it to lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/rdesktop, can you sponsor please?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok/c
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: the timestamp of the latest changelog entry is from 2008...
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: and your name is not in the entry.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, whoops, pushed
<TheMuso> thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<TheMuso> bbiab
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you sponsor pygtk too?
<baptistemm> hello
<baptistemm> if someone could merge my branches, that'd be great (lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main & lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main)
<pitti> Good morning
<baptistemm> hi pitti
<baptistemm> s/merge/review/
<baptistemm> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_GDOS/
<baptistemm> huu
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour baptistemm, hey didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<RAOF> Aloha pitti, didrocks.
<didrocks> hey RAOF
<RAOF> I'm trying out unity.  It's pretty rockin'!
<didrocks> heh, right, it's really good :)
<pitti> hey RAOF
<RAOF> It does suffer from the problem that mutter grabs the <Super> modifier and doesn't let go, though.
<pitti> didrocks: indeed! I have yesterday's daily installed on my mini now
 * didrocks is eager for Thursday release, a lot of goodness coming :)
<RAOF> Man, software-centre has also gone all shiny.
<seb128> hello
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, stop working on karmic we should focus on maverick now! ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, did I upload something to karmic by accident...
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, but you listed a lot of karmic updates on your activity report ;-)
<robert_ancell> oh, well, I just love karmic so much I want to make it better ;)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> how are you otherwise?
<seb128> had a productive day? ;-)
<seb128> I think desrt was looking for you yesterday
<seb128> he said something about you guys living in incompatible timezones
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, almost at the end of the merges!
<robert_ancell> I've been merging compiz to reduce the delta from debian...
<seb128> nice
<seb128> we can probably sync some of compiz-*
<seb128> or be close
<robert_ancell> there's just so much text that differs between the two, it's very hard to tell what is important
<seb128> "text"?
<robert_ancell> seb128, in debian/
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't bother too much about rebasing sources when it's not worth the effort
<robert_ancell> seb128, we don't need compiz-dbg any more right?  Now that we have -dbgsym?
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, I took one look at gvds and decided that could be merged another day :)
<robert_ancell> gvfs
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> robert_ancell, I can do that today if you want
<seb128> robert_ancell, is there any merge left on your todolist?
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you know what you plan to work on next after merges?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I started gnome-menus but got a bit lost, I'll push it to a +junk branch, you can have a look
<robert_ancell> the only other things were gnome-control-center and system-tools-backends
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> everything else is more foundations work
<seb128> I will try to look at gvfs gnome-menus gnome-control-center today
<seb128> I would like to see if I can help debian getting started on gtk3 as well
<seb128> robert_ancell, the idea right now would be to have the gtk3 stack ready to be used for maverick but not on the default installation
<seb128> which means we will have to do the packaging work for dual libraries, themes, etc
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you think it's a reasonable goal?
<robert_ancell> yeah, I think we should try.  The theme for Maverick seems to be, get all the new libraries in so people can start using them
<seb128> I don't trust their schedule enough and the transition will raise issues especially for bindings use etc
<seb128> so getting gtk3 clients on the default installation would be quite some work
<seb128> we would also need to find CD space for it
<seb128> I think we better get it in shape this cycle and see how it works
<robert_ancell> The only apps I'm currently interested in looking at 2.31 versions are vinagre (will get rdp support so can drop tsclient) and yelp (needs unstable version of webkit)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I guess we will end by having a GNOME3 ppa at the end of the cycle anyway
<robert_ancell> I don't think we need to get this stuff on the cd
<robert_ancell> universe will be fine
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm interested in new empathy
<seb128> but seems upstream is interested to still support gtk2 builds if they can so we can ship their new version
<seb128> nautilus and evolution would be nice to have
<seb128> but those will likely be problematic so for next cycle
<robert_ancell> seb128, lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/gnome-menus-merge
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<robert_ancell> ok, gtg, see you later
<seb128> robert_ancell, have fun, see you later!
<vish> hmm, is mpt on leave today?
<seb128> vish, dunno but it's only 9am in the uk
<vish> ah cool
<seb128> vish, ie a time where people start working
<seb128> he might just not be arrived yet
<vish> got it :)
<huats> morning
<seb128> didrocks, hello
<didrocks> hey seb128 :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, do you think chromium is still on the a2 target for une?
<seb128> I think we should discuss that with chrisccoulson and rickspencer today
<didrocks> seb128: it depends on chriscoulson's state I would love to have all the default for a2
<didrocks> but I didn't want to bother him while he was still on his firefox's updates
<seb128> I think it's not realistic
<seb128> it requires to rework xulrunner
<didrocks> right, it will be short
<seb128> you are already over CD space use
<didrocks> yeah, at least banshee + evolution express will be good
<didrocks> talking of evolution express, I tried to cherry pick what's needed yesterday evening to build it
<didrocks> it brings most of the gnome 2.30 trunk in it
<seb128> oh
<seb128> well GNOME 2.30.2 next week
<didrocks> I got something, but at this point, I think waiting for evolution 2.30.2 is better
<didrocks> right
<seb128> you are welcome to do a git snapshot if you want
<seb128> or wait next week
<didrocks> I think we can wait for few days, it will be easier and less error-prones
<seb128> if you do a git snapshot if will make the next update easier to review and get during the alpha freeze I guess
<didrocks> but it's not that difficult to backport it, so I'm confident for alpha2 :)
<seb128> hum ignore that
<didrocks> yeah, but e-d-s is needed too
<seb128> we will get the .2 tarball before the freeze
<didrocks> right
<seb128> so wait next week
<didrocks> so, let's focus on banshee now and some dx packaging
<didrocks> do you want me to push to alpha3 the chromium WI now?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, hi
<seb128> ArneGoetje, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-language-selector
<seb128> ArneGoetje, did you do the follow up discussion and did you get the mockups?
<alf__> didrocks: Hi! In #591208 i said "none" not "one" :)
<didrocks> alf__: umf, should by glasses :)
<didrocks> buy*
<didrocks> alf__: sweet, so we can go on on that, do you still have changes that need to be done with the egl backend?
<alf__> didrocks: I just have to add the symbols files in that branch, too
<didrocks> alf__: ok, keep me posted, I would rather work on your branch directly
<alf__> didrocks: You mean the egl brach?
<didrocks> right
<alf__> didrocks: ok
<seb128> didrocks, could you try to get extra feedback about your poppler sru you did over a month ago now?
<didrocks> seb128: sure
<kamstrup> njpatel, would you rather I make the searching work or I make the time based grouping work?
<didrocks> seb128: what's the official link to see waiting sru btw? http://qa.ubuntu.com/ still points to http://people.canonical.com/~sbeattie/sru_todo.html which seems not being updated anymore
<seb128> didrocks, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
 * didrocks bookmarks, thanks seb128
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thank
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks. a bit tired this morning though
<chrisccoulson> i had quite a late night updating extensions in karmic last night
<seb128> worked late again?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just saw bug 595008. i should probably think about doing that for mozilla-devscripts too ;)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595008 in debhelper (Ubuntu) "should port the Ubuntu cdbs custom rules to dh7 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595008
<chrisccoulson> i need to figure out how dh7 works first though
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have a maverick system yet?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet. i was going to wait until after the mozilla work is done before upgrading
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to upgrade just yet
<seb128> right
<seb128> I guess I will look at merging gjs today
<seb128> chrisccoulson, RAOF: or does one of you want to do it?
<seb128> I've a workitem to get an updated gnome-shell in universe for alpha2
<seb128> I think we can probably sync that from Debian
<seb128> but we need to get the current gjs
<RAOF> You're welcome to take gjs, I'd love lo lose TIL status on it :/
<chrisccoulson> i need to look at gjs at some point. the xulrunner update in lucid is going to break gjs there
<chrisccoulson> it's specifies a rpath for libmozjs, which is going to change after each update
<chrisccoulson> so we might need to drop that and provide a wrapper in gnome-shell to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<chrisccoulson> else it's going to break every few weeks
<seb128> there is a bug open to change it so it stops needing a rebuilding after each upgrade
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think micahg was looking at that
 * RAOF wish, wish, wishes that GNOME had rejected it in favour of seed which doesn't try to treat an defiantly ABI unstable dynamic object as a system library.
<seb128> I might just do the easy update and let you deal with other changes then
<chrisccoulson> RAOF - this is why we don't treat it as a system library on ubuntu (unlike other distro's)
<chrisccoulson> so it makes it very difficult for people to use it
<milanbv> chrisccoulson: if you need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH, note the gnome-shell python script already does this
<milanbv> only need to change the dir there
<chrisccoulson> milanbv, oh, that's good. we need to dynamically set the path based on the output of "xulrunner --gre-version"
<milanbv> you have
<milanbv>  mozjs_libdir = re.sub('-(sdk|devel)', '', mozjs_sdkdir)
<milanbv>         if os.path.exists(mozjs_libdir + '/libmozjs.so'):
<milanbv>             env['LD_LIBRARY_PATH'] = os.environ.get('LD_LIBRARY_PATH', '') + ':' + mozjs_libdir
<milanbv> so that's easy :-)
<chrisccoulson> oh, so we really just need to drop the rpath from gjs
<RAOF> And provide a wrapper for the gjs binary, probably.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, we'd need to do that too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, want to do that and rebase on debian? ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you can do that on lucid I guess
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can look at that later on
<seb128> thanks
<milanbv> though, note you have to do the same in gnome-shell-clock-preferences, which is a standalone shell script
<chrisccoulson> i just need to update a few more extensions first
<ArneGoetje> seb128: https://chinstrap.canonical.com/~arne/language-selector/
<seb128> ArneGoetje, hey
<seb128> ArneGoetje, nice
<ArneGoetje> seb128: mockups are here, they need a final review and maybe some polishing. Review meeting yesterday was cancelled, since Design team had a meetng with Mark. Need to find a new time.
<seb128> ArneGoetje, can you change to work item to DONE then?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: yep
<seb128> thanks
<ArneGoetje> seb128: done
<seb128> ArneGoetje, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, I guess the eclipse doesn't start is a rgba issue
<didrocks> seb128: didn't kenvandine deactivated rgba yesterday?
<seb128> not sure
<seb128> I did in maverick
<seb128> I've not tracked ppa builds
<didrocks> IIRC, he told he did, that's why I want to ensure he has the last one
<didrocks> I don't have a box ready right now to break it and want to work on other thing, checking with him will be good, no?
<alf__> didrocks: I think I have made all changes to my clutter eglx build. Feel free to take a look :)
<didrocks> alf__: adding that to my TODO, tomorrow morning sounds good?
<alf__> didrocks: Sure, thanks!
<didrocks> alf__: I will certainly ping you then so :)
<seb128> didrocks, don't bother testing, I was just making a comment that's it's likely a rgba issue
<didrocks> seb128: ok, thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, but the versions you list have rgba changes
<didrocks> seb128: and those I tested on maverick? (the first one)
<seb128> didrocks, though you are likely using an ubuntu eclipse, I'm not sure the user is
<didrocks> right, I'm using the ubuntu eclipse
<seb128> ie we might have workaround for such issues
<didrocks> yeah, probably
<seb128> lot of users run upstream eclipse though
<didrocks> it's so easy to run it without installing, that can explain the crash he has and not me
<_tydeas_> i am back for the bind9 problem?
<_tydeas_> does it need to allow icmp from firewall too?
<_tydeas_> sorry wrong #
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: I've just uploaded ubuntu-sso-client package to maverick, which is a split from ubuntuone-client
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: what do I need to do to get it in main?
<james_w> rodrigo_: depend on it from something in main
<rodrigo_> ugh, the upload was rejected
<seb128> you likely don't have upload rights for this source?
<rodrigo_> james_w, ubuntuone-client will depend on it as soon as we get the package in maverick
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, it's a new package
<james_w> rodrigo_: in that case you just need to file a dummy MIR bug stating that it is code split out from ubuntuone-client, and it will get cursory review
<rodrigo_> james_w, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, so you need a sponsor to upload for you
<seb128> rodrigo_, since you don't have right for that source
<rodrigo_> seb128, yeah, so I file a MIR bug pointing to the branch containing the package?
<james_w> rodrigo_: they are independent things, you can get it uploaded by a sponsor, and file the MIR bug independently
<rodrigo_> ok, so who can do the upload for me?
<rodrigo_> the package is in lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<james_w> I would do it now, but I'm just headed out for lunch
<rodrigo_> james_w, ok, can we ping you later so that you do it, please?
<james_w> sure, if no-one else can help you beforehand
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks
<pitti> rodrigo_: sounds trivial, please just file a pro forma MIR bug to explain the split
<nessita> pitti: MIR for package rodrigo_ was referring to is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/595096
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595096 in ubuntu-sso-client "[MIR] ubuntu-sso-client (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Confirmed]
<pitti> nessita: thanks; please get it uploaded, so that we can review the package
<nessita> pitti: the package is uploaded to my PPA, and the package branch is uploaded at https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<nessita> pitti: dput to ubuntu is rejected
<nessita> (well, was rejected, I can do it again)
<pitti> right, see above
<nessita> pitti: sorry, but not sure what you're asking for :-)
<pitti> you need a sponsor
<pitti> kenvandine presumably, or seb128
<kenvandine> hey
<nessita> ah, yes we do
<kenvandine> nessita, i'll look at that, cool
<nessita> kenvandine: thank you! anything that you need you can ping rodrigo_ or me
<kenvandine> will do
<pitti> kenvandine: good morning, how are you?
<kenvandine> doing ok, and you?
<pitti> I'm good, thanks
<pitti> just squeezing in some ubuntu work
 * pitti still has 2 WIs for alpha-2
<seb128> hey pitti
 * pitti hands seb128 some ice cream
<seb128> pitti, how strongly do we care about alpha2 UNE iso to fit on a CD?
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> seb128: me personally? about this ---><--- much
<pitti> for the release I'd care some more, since this is a _netbook_ edition after all
<pitti> it should be lean and mean and not take 3 GB
<pitti> why is it so big?
<seb128> pitti, it's basically shipping what the desktop ships
<seb128> pitti, why we would want to be over target for a2 is chromium
<pitti> is that by design?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> i. e. shipping gnome-panel, firefox, etc.
<pitti> that seems a lot of clutter and cruft for a netbook
<seb128> we will look at space use and clean a bit I guess
<seb128> we did previous cycle
<pitti> if someone wants gnome, why not install the normal gnome CD, or apt-get install ubuntu-desktop?
<seb128> but we have basically the GNOME platform
<seb128> and openoffice
<seb128> and firefox
<pitti> seb128: well, I'd say it's your call this time :)
<seb128> pitti, well it's basically gnome-panel replaced by unity
<seb128> pitti, the question is because we want chromium by default in alpha2
<pitti> drop firefox then?
<seb128> but we will not have time to do the xulrunner changes that will bring us CD space
<bcurtiswx> UNE or Desktop?
<seb128> so we will basically have the xul and chromium stacks
<pitti> I see
<seb128> pitti, we would if chrisccoulson was not busy full time on those security updates
<pitti> seb128: I'd just drop firefox for the sake of clean menus and not shipping two things for one purpose
<seb128> pitti, we still need xul or desktopcouch etc
<pitti> seb128: yes, those are "implementation details"
<seb128> pitti, right, that will not bring us on CD target though
<seb128> pitti, which was sort of my question
<pitti> seb128: as I said, I wouldn't personally care about oversized alpha-2
<seb128> "how much rt cares about alpha2 UNE to be on CD target"
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<pitti> but releasing with xul and the entire gnome stack would be ugly
<seb128> pitti, we will clean what we can but chrisccoulson's priority is still security updates and we get closed from alpha2
<pitti> seb128: just announce this in the next release meeting so that folks are prepared
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> didrocks, ^
 * bcurtiswx needs to freshen up with the desktop-team mailing lists
<pitti> seb128: I don't see any urgency in cleaning that for a2
 * didrocks backlogs in a minute
<pitti> we should do feature development now
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was not sure how much we CD iso limits are rc for alpha
<seb128> I know we do care about staying on target for desktop isos and for stable versions
<pitti> my personal preference for a netbook installation would be 500 MB compressed (or less) and ~ 1 GB installed :)
<seb128> I never had to worry about alpha UNE isos before
<pitti> but yeah, if too many folks insist on OO.o, then *shrug*
<seb128> right ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: pitti: ok, thanks :)
<didrocks> I'm still scared about CD size with all the new things. I've made a lot of cleanage for lucid, and if we don't remove a major componentâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: ubuntu-desktop?
<didrocks> pitti: on UNE
<pitti> didrocks: yes, that's what I mean; drop ubuntu-desktop and GNOME bits, firefox, etc.
<didrocks> pitti: well, that's basically what I tried to do for lucid. On the image, we still didn't replace the default (apart from unity), so it will still be one for oneâ¦ We'll see
<pitti> RAOF: ok, please go wild with adding add_drm_info(); that actually looks like quite nice information, thanks for the idea
<pitti> RAOF: add to source_xorg.py, I mean
<kenvandine> nessita, is setup.py meant to be AGPL?
<didrocks> kenvandine: do you build gtk with rgba in the UNE ppa?
<didrocks> hey btw :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, hey :)
<kenvandine> yes... want me to remove that?
<didrocks> kenvandine: well, we got that bug #595013
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595013 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "eclipse doesn't start because of libgtk 2.20.1 provide with package in unity ppa (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595013
<didrocks> kenvandine: if we can avoid people messing up lucid with rgba as we deactivated it in maverick for nowâ¦
<kenvandine> agreed
<didrocks> kenvandine: that will rock if you can remove it, thanks :)
<kenvandine> i'll remove that... i'll make just lucid gtk+menuproxy
<didrocks> thanks :)
<seb128> kenvandine, take the patch from yesterday as well
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah... will do
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> ArneGoetje, could you comment on bug #569442?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 569442 in linux (Ubuntu) "Silent wraparound on > 2 TB LVM snapshots (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/569442
<seb128> ArneGoetje, it seems something to get sorted before lucid .1 if we can
<seb128> ups
<seb128> the bot is buggy now?
<seb128> it got the wrong title
<seb128> bug #1
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1 in tilix (and 18 other projects) "Microsoft has a majority market share (affects: 445) (heat: 2396)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<seb128> weird
<pitti> seb128: I think most of the WIs on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-xorg-gpu-freeze-reports are probably going to miss a2; since there is a separate a2 section, having the entire spec being targetted at alpha-2 might actually be an error?
<seb128> pitti, why do you think they will miss a2?
<seb128> pitti, I didn't notice before it was milestoned for a2, I'm not the one why did that, right seems a mistake
<pitti> seb128: well, it's less than a week to implement all of it, and there are many dependencies
<seb128> we discussed that yesterday and chris though it was still doable
<pitti> seb128: e. g. before the first two WIs are done we can't start the others
<pitti> ok
<seb128> I will check with him when he's around
<seb128> pitti, it would be fine to move in a3 in any case
<seb128> I think it makes sense to have that for an early milestone though
<seb128> we want debug datas during the unstable cycle
<pitti> seb128: ok; in particular, my last WI there is at the end of a very long dependency chain
<pitti> well, I'll talk to RAOF
<seb128> pitti, I just dropped the spec milestone
<pitti> seb128: a3 perhaps?
<seb128> I will ask him to move work items to proper targets in the whiteboard
<pitti> since it is for collecting debug data, after all
<pitti> but oh well, with that I suddenly have my a2 stuff done, nice :)
<seb128> right, what I just said
<seb128> a3 seems fine
<seb128> we can use either the whiteboard or target the spec
<seb128> let's target the spec for a3 until that's discussed
<seb128> pitti, good ;-)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: would I talk to you about a change to adium-theme-ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> ?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, maybe :)
<kenvandine> i think we probably need to get folks from design to review
 * kenvandine just handles the package :)
<bcurtiswx> i just want to make /me actions in channels be a different color than the join/parts
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, good idea
<kenvandine> file a bug and a patch if you can
<kenvandine> i'll do what i can to get someone to look at it
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine: OK, im looking at the code now, i hope to find where to change this soon enough
<bcurtiswx> i wouldn't know what to grep
<kenvandine> cool :)
<kenvandine> me either really :)
<kenvandine> one of the Content.html files i guess
<kenvandine> outgoing/Content.html'
<kenvandine> something like that
<bcurtiswx> OK
<dobey> seb128, pitti: do you need to do something if i added a new Build-Dep to a package? lp says it's in dependency wait still
<pitti> probably a MIR
<dobey> pitti: oh, Build-Depends-Indeps need to all be in main too?
<pitti> yes, all build deps need to be
<dobey> oh ok, maybe i should remove that build dep for now then
<dobey> we probably don't really need to be running pylint during the build too. just trying to get tests running
<dobey> yeah, i think i'll do
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, the ubuntu-sso-client package is ready (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-sso-client/+bug/595096), can you review and upload it please?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595096 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "[MIR] ubuntu-sso-client (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,In progress]
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, will do
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, ok, thanks!
<dobey> rodrigo_, nessita: why didn't you guys upload it to REVU?
<rodrigo_> dobey, because we got a sponsor already :)
<dobey> rodrigo_: yes, but anyone can upload to revu, so you can upload it there, and point at it for packaging review, then it can be pushed into universe, and the MIR done
<dobey> *shrug*
<kenvandine> actually... i will need seb128 to actually upload it anyway...
<kenvandine> seb128, do you have time?
<kenvandine> seb128, or i can do a review of it first, if you like
<dobey> kenvandine: heh, you don't have universe privs yet?
<chrisccoulson> hi ara
<kenvandine> nope... i should apply for that :)
<dobey> yes you should :P
<ara> hey chrisccoulson, how are you doing?
<chrisccoulson> we can probably ask people to start testing firefox 3.6.4 on karmic from tomorrow :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<kenvandine> didrocks, gtk uploaded to une ppa
<seb128> kenvandine, you are not a motu yet?
<ara> chrisccoulson, cool, what about jaunty? did I miss anything?
<didrocks> kenvandine: thanks, I guess you can also put the bug #594877 as incomplete
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 594877 in indicator-appmenu "certain applications crash with assertion error on menu_proxy_module_load (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/594877
<ara> (I was on holidays)
<chrisccoulson> ara - jaunty will probably follow a couple of days later, but certainly by the end of the week
<kenvandine> seb128, no... i'll apply for that
<seb128> kenvandine, right, you should
<chrisccoulson> (thinking about it, a couple of days is the end of the week)
<seb128> kenvandine, I've time for a sign and upload now but not to review something to sponsor
<ara> chrisccoulson, ah, ok, I will start preparing the call for testing and the tracker, let me know (email) when everything is set up and ready to go
<seb128> kenvandine, ie if you reviewed it and it just lacks and uploader I can do, otherwise I will let somebody else take it
<kenvandine> seb128, ok, i'll review it and ping you
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<chrisccoulson> ara - ok, will do. thank you
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, why is setup.py AGPL?
<nessita> kenvandine: hey, sorry for the delay, did you get an answer for your question?
<kenvandine> oh... i missed it
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, is it?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yes... which seems weird to me
<kenvandine> :)
<dobey> eh
<ArneGoetje> seb128: done. Please use my fix in language-selector (my bzr branch) for SRU as commented in the bug.
<dobey> kenvandine: oh that may be a pasting thinko on my part :)
<kenvandine> ok... so first thing to fix
<nessita> rodrigo_: why is it  AGPL?
<rodrigo_> nessita, no idea :)
<dobey> nessita: ^
<dobey> nessita: becasue we didn't catch it in review of my setup.py fixes
<kenvandine> also, mocker.py doesn't have any license references ata ll
<kenvandine> at all
<dobey> nessita: and i copied/pasted the block from ubuntuone-storage-protocol
<kenvandine> oh it does
<kenvandine> __license__ = "PSF License"
<seb128> ArneGoetje, it's an hardy change?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: lucid
<kenvandine> dobey, also COPYING is GPLv2 and all the files say GPL v3
<nessita> dobey: are you fixing it or we are?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, it will not fix upgrades for people who did changes already?
<dobey> kenvandine: i'll fix that too then
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> i guess you need to include the PSF
<dobey> nessita: making a branch real quick
<kenvandine> what ever that is
<ArneGoetje> seb128: ?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~arnegoetje/language-selector/language-selector-lucid-0.5.x recent commit is a bug number in a changelog? the previous comment is 1.5 month old?
<seb128> ArneGoetje, and the changelog says karmic?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: argh... needss to be changed to lucid...
<seb128> ArneGoetje, is the language-selector used on upgrade?
<dobey> kenvandine: for PSF, it's included in the mocker.py file i believe, and just needs to be mentioned appropriately in debian/copyright, as we do in ubuntuone-storage-protocol
<ArneGoetje> seb128: someone told me to apply that fix, but didn't give me the bug number to stick it to, that's why it hasn't been uploaded yet
<seb128> ArneGoetje, I'm not sure how that will fix things for people who used the language selector once 2 years ago on hardy, upgrade and run lucid
<seb128> ArneGoetje, they will not run the language-selector again
<kenvandine> dobey, it's not in mocker.py
<dobey> kenvandine: or you can help me get http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mocker approved and in universe
<seb128> ArneGoetje, so their desktop will still look buggy with your change no?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: the fix is in the fontconfig snippet, which gets activated by language-selector, once the user chooses Japanese as his desktop language
<kenvandine> dobey, well, it would need to be in main if it was needed for building
<dobey> kenvandine: then we can switch to using the packaged version and avoid all this mess
<kenvandine> i guess it isn't
<dobey> kenvandine: it's not currently, but i just realized that and will have to deal with it i guess :)
<kenvandine> dobey, ok :)
<ArneGoetje> seb128: the fontconfig snippet is already in place since hardy. this fix will fix the bug in there where it belongs.
<dobey> kenvandine: because i'd like all our packages to gets tests running during the builds
<dobey> so i've been doing some work to that end :)
<seb128> ArneGoetje, ok, but that will require to use language selector again no?
<ArneGoetje> seb128: they don't need to run l-s again.
<seb128> ArneGoetje, what happens for users who use japaness on hardy and upgrade?
<kenvandine> dobey, cool... maybe i can look at that for gwibber tests :)
<kenvandine> dobey, but for now we need the license included
<dobey> rodrigo_, nessita: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu-sso-client/setup-license-fix/+merge/27735
<kenvandine> and referenced in the copyright file
<ArneGoetje> seb128: they get the new (fixed) font settings like all Lucid users
<ArneGoetje> seb128: it's an issue for all japanese users, not only for upgrades
<seb128> ArneGoetje, oh ok, that changes an config in etc
<dobey> kenvandine: i think in our other packages, we just have the PSF included/referenced in the debian/copyright
<seb128> ArneGoetje, got it now
<ArneGoetje> seb128: :)
<seb128> ArneGoetje, thanks, will sponsor that ;-)
<dobey> ok, well i'm really off to lunch now. bbiab
<ArneGoetje> seb128: thanks
<rodrigo_> dobey, approved
<kenvandine> dobey, it should also be included in the source
<kenvandine> or nessita ^^
<kenvandine> also, debian/copyright says Files: *
<kenvandine> Copyright: (C) 2007  Gustavo Niemeyer <gustavo@niemeyer.net>
<nessita> kenvandine: what in the source? the GPLv3?
<kenvandine> nessita, well... in dobey's branch it is :)
<kenvandine> it was wrong
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> yeah
<nessita> kenvandine: that (c to Gustavo) was added by python-mkdebian
<kenvandine> sorry... so you should have reference for PSF for mocker.py in the copyright file
<kenvandine> and include a copy of the PSF in the source
<kenvandine> and list GPL-3 for all the other files in debian/copyright
<kenvandine> nessita, ping me when we get these fixes pushed
<nessita> kenvandine: yes, thank you
<kenvandine> crap... the gtk branch for lucid is outdated!
<kenvandine> lp:ubuntu/lucid/gtk+2.0 was 2.20.0.... 2.20.1 is in lucid :(
<kenvandine> wasted time....
<kenvandine> lucid-updates... wonder why those don't sync back to the source package branch
<seb128> likely because lucid is 2.20.0 and lucid-updates 2.20.1
<seb128> so ubuntu/lucid is rightly 2.20.0
<seb128> kenvandine, did you try ubuntu/lucid-updates
<seb128> hey vish
<vish> hi
<seb128> vish, we are going to stay mostly on the GNOME from lucid this cycle, just mentionning it in case you don't know
<kenvandine> seb128, no..  i didn't realize there were branches for those :)
<seb128> vish, it might be something to consider for hundredpapercut etc
<kenvandine> now i know :)
<vish> seb128: ah. ok. so not even nautilus?
<seb128> vish, no
<seb128> vish, they will likely use gsettings and gtk3 this cycle
<seb128> vish, and we plan to switch to those on 2 cycles
<vish> hmm, then that leaves us with very little we can probably do..
<vish> seb128: .. can we patch Lucid packages? or rather how can we fix papercuts?
<seb128> vish, depends of the change I guess
<seb128> vish, well we will probably fix less of those this cycle
<vish> ivanka: mpt: djsiegel ^^^
<seb128> or we need to aim at different ones
<vish> seb128: there seems to be a little mix up here :s , ivanka / djsiegel might need to decide what to do
<vish> with the papercuts i mean :)
<seb128> vish, right, that's why I pinged you there in case you guys were not tracking what we are doing this cycle
<seb128> vish, or to maybe discuss how it impacts what you are doing and what we need to change
<nessita> kenvandine: PSF license should be added next to COPYING?
<kenvandine> nessita, yes, something like COPYING.PSF
<nessita> perfect
<kenvandine> nessita, and make sure it gets included in DIST
<nessita> yes
<kenvandine> thx
<vish> seb128: if the desktop packages are not being updated , which packages are being updated? [maybe the papercuts can be around those ones?]
<vish> no one from the ux seems to be aware of this mixup :s
<seb128> vish, dx ones are
<vish> only those? oh my!
<seb128> vish, it's not easy to tell right now, it's on a case by case basis that we will decide what to update
<seb128> not only those
<seb128> we update the platform for example
<seb128> but it's not something you care about
<vish> yeah.. well we dont usually have 'papercut' in those ;)
<seb128> we will likely get the new empathy version
<seb128> new firefox is there is one
<seb128> and new version of things out of GNOME
<seb128> ie anything which doesn't require gtk3 or a gsettings change over several components
<vish> what if patches are done for the Lucid packages?  instead of the git branches ones?
<seb128> well, we can backport changes
<seb128> but they need to apply to our codebase
<seb128> we need to be careful about new strings as well etc
<vish> no string changes?
<seb128> not really, we just need to consider impact on translations and documentations so we do those early and consider the extra cost
<vish> seb128: hmm , then we could just do papercuts and not have a target of 100 , which might make it safer to rule out any problems?
<seb128> vish, well, I will let your team judge about what you want to do and target
<seb128> I'm just giving you the informations you might need to decide on what you guys want to do
<vish> yeah , a weird mixup we have :s
<vish> seb128: thanks for bringing it up atleast now :)
<seb128> you're welcome ;-)
<chrisccoulson> vish - did you send me a message yesterday that i never responded to?
<vish> chrisccoulson: ah yeah , for the bugsquad mentorship
<chrisccoulson> ah, yes, that was it
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure i'd have time to do that at the moment
<vish> chrisccoulson: yeah , thought so , just wanted to make sure you are really  busy ;)
<rickspencer3> tremolux, hi
<tremolux> hi Rick, was just writing you an email  :)
<tremolux> what's up?
<rickspencer3> tremolux, ok, otp, need to know something
<tremolux> sure
<rickspencer3> have you guys already implemented lp authentication in software-center?
<tremolux> yes, we have a sort of rough dialog, but it works
<tremolux> it logs in and gets a list of private PPAs for the user
<tremolux> also, let's you check for forgotten password and set up an account of if you need one
<didrocks> tremolux: are you using launchpadlib or something else to get access?
<tremolux> it's launchpadlib
<didrocks> ok, I was hoping of stealing your code :-)
<didrocks> (as I need some part which aren't in launchpadlib for Quickly)
<tremolux> didrocks: sure!  take a look at softwarecenter/view/login.py
<didrocks> tremolux: well, if you are using launchpadlib, I'm already using it with Quickly. It's just I need some function which aren't and that won't be in launchpadlib in near futur (pushin gpg/ssh key for instance) :)
<tremolux> didrocks: oh, I see
<tremolux> didrocks: missed you comment just above there  :P
<didrocks> tremolux: no worry ;)
<kenvandine> didrocks, isn't that what ubuntu-sso-client is going to be fore?
<kenvandine> for
<bcurtiswx> playing too much bad golf again ken? </attempt at bad joke>
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: from what I understand, it's to connect to an application using ubuntu sso, not launchpad for instance, but I may be wrong
<kenvandine> i would think it could be one and the same
<kenvandine> isn't LP now using sso?
<kenvandine> didrocks, i could be very wrong :)
<kenvandine> just wanting to make sure everyone knows what is happening on the roadmap :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: not sure, as it's not the same interface
<kenvandine> ok
<baptistemm_> hi there
<chrisccoulson> right, that's all the extensions for karmic in the PPA now
<chrisccoulson> i'll test everything later to make sure things aren't really broken, then everyone can start testing karmic :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, waouh!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great work ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> right, i'm going to pop out for a few minutes whilst i wait for the last few bits to build
<nessita> kenvandine: package changes push to the package branch, shall I dput the package somewhere?
<kenvandine> nessita, nah... let me look
<nessita> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<nessita> (jic :-))
<kenvandine> got it :)
<didrocks> nessita: hey, we were wondering with kenvandine a little bit before: does ubuntu-sso-client enables to connect to Launchpad?
<jcastro> didrocks: is the queue view totally broken for you in banshee-meego?
<nessita> didrocks: right now ubuntu-sso-client is the plain split of the former code in u1-client
<nessita> didrocks: we're meant to change it to be a generic app to login using SSO
<didrocks> jcastro: hum, no, it's not, what do you mean by broken?
<kenvandine> nessita, ok, is that happening for maverick?
<kenvandine> or sometime in the future?
<jcastro> didrocks: totally empty
<nessita> kenvandine: maverick should be, yes :-)
<didrocks> jcastro: let me check again while my build finishes :)
<nessita> rodrigo_: right? ^
<kenvandine> nessita, so another app can use it to login to LP
<didrocks> nessita: great ;)
<kenvandine> or just U1?
<jcastro> didrocks: ah, it's empty because the dropdown in the fwd. button on the bottom seems to not be hooked up?
<nessita> kenvandine: yes, it should be generic enough, it will not be tied to ubuntuone
<jcastro> didrocks: hmm, or is it, it's weird
<kenvandine> nessita, awesome
<nessita> :-)
<didrocks> jcastro: the dropdown about cycling?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> didrocks: oh I know why it looks broken, the Q keyboard binding seems broken
<jcastro> but if you right click and add a song the queue it works
<didrocks> jcastro: hum, I didn't cycle normally, but keep that in part, I'll try to have a look
<didrocks> jcastro: the Q is to add a new element?
<kenvandine> nessita, did we figure out what was up with the text in the LICENSE file for PSF?
<jcastro> it's to add something to the play queue
<kenvandine> is that good to go?
<didrocks> jcastro: ok, and right, it seems to not working
<jcastro> it works in the desktop ui
 * jcastro will go upstream
<didrocks> yeah :)
<nessita> kenvandine: Gustavo will fix it eventually, but not ETA. dobey suggested we should ship the LICENSE juts like it is in the mocker source tree
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> nessita, copy/paste bug in debian/control
<kenvandine>  ${python:Depends}${misc:Depends},
<kenvandine> three is a misc:Depends on the line above
<kenvandine> and python:Depends on the line below that
<kenvandine> so you can just remove that line
<nessita> kenvandine: I never edited that file, I used python-mkdebian, I'll check
<kenvandine> ok, just remove that line
<didrocks> kenvandine: it's a bug on python-mkdebian on certain condition
<nessita> yes, totally yes
<didrocks> pitti: btw, if you don't know it, I didn't find the minimum reproducal example ^ (python-mkdebian producing ${python:Depends}${misc:Depends},)
<nessita> didrocks: can I help somehow?
<nessita> kenvandine: Pushed up to revision 10.
<didrocks> nessita: I didn't have any time for looking at it, but if you feel brave about it, sure. It's just trying to discover when python-mkdebian is triggering that case
<didrocks> nessita: the package containing it is python-distutilsextra (never sured about where the hypens are)
<didrocks> so, if you have some time to look at it, that will rock :)
<nessita> didrocks: I have to package another (personal) project of mine, and I'll use it, so I'll try to break it :-)
 * nessita likes to break things
<kenvandine> nessita, great :)
<didrocks> nessita: awesome \o/
<kenvandine> nessita, one more change
<kenvandine> UNRELEASED
<kenvandine> instead of maverick for the series in the changelog
<didrocks> nessita: also, keep in mind that python-mkdebian can be used to refresh debian/control dep when you relaunch it
<nessita> kenvandine: oh, I changed that back because I couldn't upload the .deb to my PPA
<kenvandine> nessita, we do that until it is uploaded to the archive
<kenvandine> yeah, you need that to upload
<nessita> kenvandine: ok, changing it back again...
<kenvandine> this way anyone that looks at the branch will know it isn't
<kenvandine> ok... push that
<didrocks> kenvandine: normally it's to the sponsored to replace UNRELEASED -> maverick :)
<nessita> understood
<didrocks> sponsor*
<kenvandine> lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<kenvandine> didrocks, yeah...
<kenvandine> didrocks, got time to sponsor that?
<kenvandine> i think it is good
<didrocks> kenvandine: in 10 minutes?
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> thx
<nessita> kenvandine: changes pushed to revno 11
<didrocks> I'll have a look again, of course :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: does all the LICENSE thing fixed?
<didrocks> is*
<kenvandine> yeah, it contains the exact text that comes with mocker.py
<didrocks> ok :)
<nessita> kenvandine, didrocks: thank you!
<nessita> I'll be around just in case
<kenvandine> np
<didrocks> nessita: yw
<baptistemm_> someone can review branches lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main and lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main ?
 * nessita goes to make some mate
<didrocks> nessita, kenvandine: I won't be able to do a proper review today, I guess. Will have a look tomorrow
<nessita> didrocks: can I brave you somehow? :-P
<didrocks> baptistemm_: je connais pas vraiment Ã§a, sinon je l'aurais fait :/
<nessita> didrocks: sorry, I meant bribe :-)
<seb128> review what?
<didrocks> nessita: ahah, no need. Just to do a clean review and too tired tonight to do it :) and want to make this banshee things WORKS
<seb128> didrocks, it's time to call it a day now, I hope you had dinner
<nessita> didrocks: no problem, let's start fresh tomorrow
<seb128> nessita, I can do a review now if you need one
<didrocks> seb128: not yet, but I'm shifted today ^^
<seb128> didn't you ask kenvandine?
<seb128> didrocks, ok, go to dinner and enjoy your evening
<nessita> seb128: yes, but somehow kenvandine pass the ball to didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, banshee can wait tomorrow
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> seb128, you dropped off and didrocks was around
<seb128> didrocks, you will not have lot to do before dx start rolling tarballs
<nessita> seb128: I'm still not sure who does what
<kenvandine> seb128, got time for a review? or tomorrow?
<seb128> kenvandine, now is fine
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntu/maverick/ubuntu-sso-client/maverick
<didrocks> seb128: yeah yeah, I planned to have nothing to do tomorrow, and I have been able to start working on banshee at 5pm :)
<nessita> didrocks, kenvandine, seb128: we can wait till tomorrow, so as it fit best for you all
<baptistemm_> didrocks, pas de problÃ¨me
<seb128> didrocks, I will make sure you can focus on that tomorrow morning, starting by doing that review for you now ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, go and enjoy your evening! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, thanks. Still trying to strike a little bit for 10 min and I will go then :-)
<seb128> nessita, we tend to all be busy, now is better than tomorrow, I'm somewhat hanging around while watching football on TV while during the day I try to get work done
<seb128> didrocks, ok ;-)
<seb128> nessita, usually new source review goes through motu and revu
<nessita> seb128: are you cheering for uruguay or for sudafrica?
<seb128> nessita, let's see sudafrica to be supportive with the boss ;-)
<nessita> heh
<seb128> nessita, I'm supportive for the french team in that group ;-)
<nessita> well, you just should cheer for Argentina, it will win the world cup anyways, so better start early :-P
<seb128> lol
<seb128> let's see ;-)
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> kenvandine, nessita: seems fine to me
<seb128> kenvandine, nessita: the only thing I've no clue about is if you can distribute psf sources under the gpk
<seb128> gpl
<seb128> the COPYING indicates it should
<nessita> seb128: if the mocker thing is complicating things, I think I should remove it from the package, honestly, since we're not distributing the tests and the mocker is used only for those
<seb128> right, seems alright, the license says it's gpl compatible
<nessita> ok
<seb128> nessita, kenvandine: you need sponsoring or just review?
<nessita> seb128: I'm not sure :-$
<nessita> kenvandine: help?
<kenvandine> seb128, sponsoring
<nessita> ah!
<seb128> ok
<seb128> will do that now
<kenvandine> thx seb128
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> isn't update-manager -d supposed to let me upgrade to maverick?
<seb128> seems it's buggy
<seb128> somebody mentioned it some days ago and mvo is on holiday this week...
<nessita> dobey: I think you need to enable to accept "non LTS" released
<nessita> dobey: but not sure how :-)
<dobey> bah i set that preference already years ago
<dobey> when i was on the last lts and wanted to upgrade
<dobey> so 2 bugs then it seems
<seb128> just dist-upgrade the old way
<nessita> dobey: then #ubuntu+1 is where you wanna ask ;-)
<nessita> seb128: but if something breaks, people in #ubuntu+1 would say you did it in the not-recommended way :-(
<dobey> nessita: i know how to change the pref. i just wouldn't expect it to be reset automatically when i already set it
<nessita> dobey: I have no eth0, don't fight me
<seb128> nessita, it's not recommended to upgrade now anyway
 * nessita cries over her eth0
<nessita> seb128: we as desktop people have to, as far as I understand
<seb128> if you need to upgrade now you are probably in the category of users who can deal with using the command line to upgrade
<nessita> seb128: I agree, but after my update my eth0 was gone, and the first answer I got was "you updated in the not-recommended way"
<nessita> which had nothing to do with eth0 being gone
<dobey> *why* is your eth0 gone?
<dobey> no more driver?
<nessita> dobey: nopes, some IRQ issue, it escalated to intel driver devs, seems like I have to flash my BIOS
<nessita> which sucks
<dobey> oh
<nessita> yeah
<seb128> nessita, let's not comment on random quality of IRC responds ;-)
<dobey> and you don't have a DOS floppy to boot from?
<dobey> ;)
<seb128> nessita, kenvandine; didrocks: ubuntu-sso-client uploaded
<nessita> dobey: nopes, not even a CD-DVD rom to boot from. I was given a few guidelines on how to do it with a pendrive
<nessita> dobey: so I have to take a deep breathe and try it
<nessita> seb128: yeyyyyyyy
<dobey> que sera, sera :)
<liminal> hello
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<liminal> ive got a major ongoing problem with my latest ubuntu installation
<nessita> seb128: that means that I should be able to install it from the maverick repos?
<liminal> applications keep randomly stopping
<seb128> nessita, let's say tomorrow
<liminal> is there a good peice of monitoring software that might log what issue is causing them to close?
<nessita> seb128: that's just *perfect*
<seb128> nessita, it's waiting to be accepted now and then needs to be build
<nessita> seb128, didrocks, kenvandine: thank you very much!
<kenvandine> np nessita
<nessita> dobey, rodrigo_: you too :-) (this is my first package)
<kenvandine> good job nessita
 * nessita dances
 * dobey moans about setup.py
<seb128> Riddell, still around? any chance you could NEW review ubuntu-sso-client today or tomorrow?
<Riddell> seb128: can do, give me a minute
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
 * nessita will reboot to see if nvidia drivers work
<dobey> man, once you start doing stuff to packages in main, it seems like everything has to go in main
<Riddell> seb128: accepted!
<seb128> kenvandine, nessita: ^
<seb128> Riddell, thanks
<nessita> Riddell: thanks!
<nessita> seb128: well, my video is finally settled. Do I need to do anything else re: ubuntu-sso-client?
<seb128> nessita, no
<nessita> seb128: well, that's great news. Thank you!
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, ready for our call with nessita?
<rickspencer3> rodrigo_, yeah
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, mumble?
 * rickspencer3 first up mumble
<nessita> rickspencer3, rodrigo_: what channel?
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, we are under Online Services/Desktop
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, unless you prefer another channel?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, around?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, hey
<kenvandine> just heading out
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> nevermind :)
<kenvandine> what's up?
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> later!
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i got one gtk widget done in vala :)
 * kenvandine runs out
<seb128> if you use maverick on amd64 don't upgrade today
<seb128> there is an initramfs bug right now breaking things
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, why?
<rodrigo_> ok, won't upgrade
<seb128> the fix has been uploaded but it will take some hours before having it build and published and ready to download
<rickspencer3> seb128, does everyone know nessita?
<rickspencer3> she started on U1 a few weeks ago, and so will be working in here a lot, I guess
<nessita> I started on the desktop side of U! a few weeks ago ;-)
<nessita> U1*
<seb128> rickspencer3, I guess not, I reviewed a package for her today but didn't know she was on the online services team before
<seb128> nessita, welcome on board ;-)
<nessita> seb128: :-)
<seb128> if you need anything you can just ask there
<seb128> sometime people are a bit busy but we usually try to help when we can
<didrocks> welcome nessita :)
<Sarvatt> seb128: refreshed the lcdfilter patch - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/merges/cairo/
<seb128> Sarvatt, you rock!
<seb128> Sarvatt, can you get the new cairo version in the xorg edger ppa then?
<rickspencer3> seb128, didrocks ... bad news ...
<rickspencer3> nessita says we all have to learn Spanish now
<Sarvatt> yep of course, just wanted to refresh that before putting it there because people would complain :)
<nessita> seb128, didrocks: thank you! like you've discovered already, I'm pretty new to the packaging stuff -- I worked for U1 foundations for 7 months, so I never dealt with a package before :-)
<seb128> rickspencer3, ola!
<rickspencer3> si
<nessita> rickspencer3: and drink mate!
<didrocks> rickspencer3: finish your French class first :)
<nessita> :-D
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> si es oui en Espanol
<didrocks> I can do the second part ^^
<rickspencer3> no puedo usar el ~
<rodrigo_> right, the desktop team has too many French
<nessita> rickspencer3: you need to have a US intl layout
<nessita> je parle un petit peut de francais
<didrocks> rodrigo_: there is never "too many French" :)
<didrocks> nessita: trÃ¨s bien :)
<nessita> heh
<seb128> rodrigo_, coming from GNOME you should know that you need to speak french in the desktop world ;-)
<nessita> didrocks: I guess I can practice in Prague while we drink mate
<seb128> I will need to watch didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: what? ;)
<nessita> seb128, didrocks, kenvandine: rodrigo_ and I are attending to the Prague sprint, so we'll get a chance to meet
<rodrigo_> seb128, no, we taught Spanish to vuntz when he was in Valencia!
<seb128> didrocks, seems you already have drinking plans one month before being there
<didrocks> nessita: heh, sorry for not speaking spanish, I picked German
<rickspencer3> rodrigo_, and nessita will be there
<didrocks> seb128: heh, that's the Free Software ecosystem :)
<rickspencer3> so, ha much Espana por el sprinto
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, you will not trick me to stay at the bar every night this time ;-)
<seb128> I didn't see that coming at UDS
<didrocks> seb128: what? it will be my fault? No way :-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, we can teach you "do cervasas por favor"
<seb128> lol
<seb128> nessita, will be nice to see you at the sprint then ;-)
<rickspencer3> and thanks for the weekly releases, that will help lots
<nessita> rickspencer3: your Spanish is really funny, no offense :-)
<seb128> I guess spanish is easier to speak than write
<nessita> rickspencer3: but I guess my french is even funnier :-P
<nessita> well guys, it was great meeting you more formally. I need to run some errands now
 * nessita bbl
<seb128> nessita, have fun
<didrocks> enjoy nessita
<rickspencer3> yo hablo mucho Espanol muy bueno
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> rickspencer3, cool, continue practicing for when we switch the whole company to Spanish :)
<rickspencer3> carumba!
<Sarvatt> not sure edgers is a good place for this cairo though if you want testing for possible inclusion in maverick, for one i fixed xserver to advertise renderproto 0.11 so pdf blend operators are used and that's not upstream yet, plus I use git checkouts of pixman that aren't going to be in maverick
<seb128> Sarvatt, ok, can you hand it over to me so I can upload it to the ubuntu-desktop ppa
<Sarvatt> it's all at the link i gave ya - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/merges/cairo/
<seb128> Sarvatt, <ickle>	seb128: any chance of packaging cairo.git in xorg-edgers?
<seb128> Sarvatt, that was on #cairo the other day
<Sarvatt> surprised he didn't just ask me
<Sarvatt> he uses edgers
<seb128> well they were trying to convince me to ship 1.9 in maverick
<seb128> I argued that their schedule was not really reliable
<seb128> so next they asked if we could start by testing in a ppa
<seb128> Sarvatt, right, he said he would get cairo it from the ppa if we had it there ;-)
<Sarvatt> i'm still putting it in edgers its just edgers is pretty radically different than what's going to be in maverick, i thought you needed the new cairo for poppler
<seb128> well turn out we don't really
<seb128> the new version build with our cairo
<seb128> it will just lack some of the new things
<seb128> I will push the new cairo in the ubuntu-desktop ppa as well I guess
<Sarvatt> someone wanted newer cairo for pdf, i think it was for simple-scan
<seb128> it's likely
<seb128> as said upstream would like us to ship it in maverick
<seb128> so it's going to be useful
<seb128> I think we will start by testing in the xorg and ubuntu-desktop ppa
<Sarvatt> only problem i've had after a day using it is chrome/chromium seems to be a bit screwed up, the icons on the tabs blink when it refreshes
<seb128> ok
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-17
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: DId pygtk get sponsored from yesterday for you? if not, I'll take care of it.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hasn't been sponsored, thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
<robert_ancell> Does anyone know how the the /usr/share/gnome/wm-properties/*.desktop files work? RAOF perhaps?
<RAOF> Not I, said the RAOF.
<TheMuso> Sorry no idea.
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, ping
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: pong
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, hey, I've been merging the compiz packaging with the Debian package, but the one problem I have is when I start compiz the decorator doesn't start.  Any ideas where to look for problems?
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: If you're not using the wrapper you need to modify the default settings to put something in the decorator plugin to start
<Amaranth> The plugin has an option to run a command to start a decorator if it doesn't detect one running already
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, I am using the wrapper (it should work as it did before, I
<robert_ancell> 'm just not sure what I've broken)
<Amaranth> oh, hmm
<Amaranth> Wait, you're giving up the startup gain and going back to the wrapper?
<robert_ancell> oh, no, I meant I was using the decorator wrapper
<robert_ancell> I've just pushed the changes to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/compiz/ubuntu if you want to look
<Amaranth> I actually just pointed the debian maintainer to my 0.9 package recently as well, I have a feeling you porting to their package and them (possibly) porting some of the way to mine is going to make more work for everyone
<Amaranth> But for the decorator you should make it log something so you can see what it is doing, I guess
<Amaranth> I'm actually not booted in to Ubuntu right now since I needed an app for webOS development so I can't test the packaing
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, oh, you have 0.9 packages ready?  I'm hoping by porting to the debian package it will be easier to use their changes
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: Yeah, I did core and libcompizconfig packages, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth
<Amaranth> The debian maintainer was looking in to use git submodules to package core and the plugin packs together so we don't have to worry about them getting out of sync so I think he is going to basically redo the packaging
<Amaranth> Hopefully he does it somewhat like I have already
<robert_ancell> right
<Amaranth> Also we already have bzr branches for compiz packages. If you move them to ~ubuntu-desktop I can't commit
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, right, I'll move them back
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, oh, that was a typo, I just did a push and they went to the right place anyway
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: Hrm, the whole reason I didn't want to merge with Debian was compiz-gtk
<Amaranth> I got rid of it after a few people complained that we didn't ship a gtk-window-decorator without GNOME dependencies
<Amaranth> (which we can't do without configuring and building compiz twice)
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, oh, so that is a change worth keeping?
<robert_ancell> What is Debian planning on doing?
<Amaranth> I dunno, I haven't been able to have much communication with them
<Amaranth> Been rather busy working and trying to make apps for my new phone :)
<robert_ancell> I figured it was a useful package for non-gnome distros, e.g. xfce
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: It would be if we actually made it
<Amaranth> But compiz-gtk just contains gtk-window-decorator which in our build almost literally depends on every part of GNOME
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, do you have compiz upload privileges?
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: Yeah but I wouldn't be able to upload until tomorrow
<Amaranth> About to head for bed, it's almost 2am
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, np, I can't upload, but if you're happy to I'd like you to look over the changes in bzr and upload them if you're happy with them
<robert_ancell> (no rush)
 * TheMuso sighs with relief.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, good news?
<TheMuso> Thats one package I'd rather not touch.
<robert_ancell> hehe
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> good morning pitti, seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<pitti> hey didrocks!
 * pitti looks at NEW, sees that it's 520 entries long, and cleans up a bit
<seb128> urg
<seb128> pitti, it's for sure coming from de debian sync run?
<pitti> certainlz
<seb128> lol
<pitti> I'm running new-binary-debian-universe
<seb128> pitti, thanks for cleaning ;-)
<pitti> sorry, accidentally had German keyboard layout enabled :)
<baptistemm> heya
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<didrocks> salut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut didrocks
<seb128> I guess we will not get a new gdm version in lucid
<seb128> jmccann seems to not have the same notion of stable serie as we have
<seb128> he backported a zillion trunk change to stable
<seb128> lot of those not being really needed in a stable, ie code refactoring
<robert_ancell> pitti, are your sane-backends udev changes still applicable?
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, you might want to send our changes to the debian bts when we have only small depends etc changes
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell: the ones from 1.0.20-13ubuntu1 ?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, I noticed on some of the merges you did the diff could almost be dropped or easily included in debian
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, they look fine
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I've been opening a bunch of bugs against debian
<pitti> I wonder why Debian doesn't switch over to the current udev world
<seb128> robert_ancell, excellent ;-)
<robert_ancell> I don't have much hope they'll be taken though :)
<robert_ancell> pitti, that was what I was going to ask!
<robert_ancell> Debian needs a GnomeGoal type projects to unify a lot of things...
<didrocks> seb128: there are some XDMCP fixes that can be interested to take, maybe?
<seb128> didrocks, I've a bunch of commits in my backport queue yes
<seb128> didrocks, I'm just saying it will be difficult to update the version
<seb128> didrocks, ie we should rather backport fixes we want
<didrocks> seb128: right, cherry picking is harder for maintainance, but it's clearly safer in that case
<seb128> didrocks, well seeing the number of commits...
<seb128> we already rolled back from 2.30.2 due to new bugs
<seb128> I've little confidence in the new hundred commits to not have new bugs
<didrocks> yeah, it's the right decision :)
<seb128> especially that they did some refactoring and changes in the user loading and greater animations codes
<didrocks> I was just hilighting the XDMCP fix (some discussion on gdm ML)
<didrocks> urgh? that's riskyâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, see http://git.gnome.org/browse/gdm/log/?h=gnome-2-30 commits
<seb128> especially the serie 6 days ago there
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I was just looking at it, that's crazy for a stable releaseâ¦
<seb128> it goes over 2 screens
<didrocks> so gdm 2.30.2 for maverick and cherrypicking for lucid?
<seb128> right
<seb128> that's what we have now
<seb128> on the nice side if means we will get lot of those fixes in the 2.30 update
<seb128> ie we will get the change without having to take the GNOME3 version
<didrocks> right :)
<didrocks> ok, so I can switch between the two banshee interfaces reliably now, choose which interface to start, and add a button to main interface only if the netbook interface is installed \o/
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, can one of you have a look at sponsoring sane-backends?
<seb128> didrocks, great work
<didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, ^ can you do robert_ancell sponsoring?
<seb128> I'm on SRU mode for now
<didrocks> seb128: do, you know where is his branch? ~ubuntu-desktop?
<didrocks> no, it's not
<seb128> didrocks, let me check
<seb128> didrocks, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/sane-backends/ubuntu
<seb128> didrocks, seems it is?
<seb128> didrocks, it changed 19 minutes ago it seems
<didrocks> yeah, missing the final s probably :)
<didrocks> launchpad it great for having a view on it
<didrocks> ok, doing it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, do you think we could move gdm in updates with 3 bugs confirmed fixed on 5?
<seb128> pitti, if I get somebody to ack that gdm still works on the other 2 bugs?
<pitti> it seems to work fine here, anyway, and it should avoid the new crash
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine
<seb128> pitti, I would like to move to another round of fixes backport
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: the .Xresources stuff is easy enough to test, I believe I added test cases
<seb128> pitti, bug #586503 will fail verification
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 586503 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "/etc/gdm/PostLogin/Default file not run if automatic login is enabled (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586503
<seb128> it fixes the Init script use not the PostLogin ones
<seb128> it's not a regression but fixes a similar case not the bug one
<pitti> ah, ok; so we'd leave that open
<seb128> bug #518810 is similar to one of the fixes verified
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 518810 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "gdm monitors for $HOME/.face even when IncludeAll is false (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518810
<seb128> it's the one robert_ancell fixed
<seb128> EtienneG confirmed the updated version fixes their issue
<Sarvatt> \o/ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commit/?id=7a023a62f7517ad0d54f4d59c99909fadcc05e82
<slomo> pitti: ping? :)
<pitti> hello slomo
<seb128> Sarvatt, well done!
<Sarvatt> woohoo so gtk app x errors go to the gdm log again now? thats been a big pet peeve of mine since it changed to have x's stdout/stderr and only had the log
<RAOF> Sarvatt: Rock on!
<RAOF> Hm.  That âamd64 users, don't update due to broken initramfs-toolsâ would have been much more useful if I'd read it about 15 minutes ago :)
<hyperair> now don't reboot =p
<RAOF> Yah.
<seb128> is that still an issue?
<seb128> the fix has been uploaded 15 hours ago
<seb128> it built 7 hours ago and should be published for a while
<Sarvatt> i got a crapload of errors when i updated i386 earlier but they were for a kernel i dont have installed anymore, hope its not a problem :D
<RAOF> ubuntu4 is fixed?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> ubuntu3 was the buggy one
<RAOF> Failing to call dh_install seems unlikely to result in a working package :)
<seb128> if you want to check look if initramfs-tools-bin has binaries
<seb128> if not you are in trouble ;-)
<Sarvatt> wow is gdm 2.30 branch right? that looks like he pushed master to it a few days ago too :)
<seb128> Sarvatt, see backlog
<Sarvatt> yeah thats why i was looking at it
<seb128> the redhat guys don't have the same opinion that us of what stable means it seems
<Sarvatt> oh they do for RHEL
<seb128> ok, the fedora guys don't ;-)
<Sarvatt> yeah they like to break everyone else and do the stable stuff internally it seems :)
<RAOF> Rollingish release for the strange.
<seb128> Sarvatt, so where is your cairo update? want me to push it to the ubuntu-desktop ppa?
<Sarvatt> really though it looks like that guy pushed master to 2.30 branch by mistake a few days ago and noone fixed it up
<seb128> somebody raised it on their IRC channel
<seb128> seems it's not an error
<seb128> lot of those changes are required to get the new user account dialog fedora is using to work with gdm or something
<Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/merges/cairo/ i'm still trying to track down why it breaks chrome/chromium though, it looks like it draws the icons on the tabs as a crapload of animated cursors digging into the trace
<seb128> Sarvatt, thanks
<Sarvatt> watch it be fixed when i restart into the non CSD gtk :)
<seb128> Sarvatt, lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> urg
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<Sarvatt> chrisccoulson: ever heard of xtruss?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt - i'd not heard of that until just now
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm good thanks
<chrisccoulson> i think the karmic updates are ready to test now :)
<Sarvatt> you got me hooked on xtrace and i found this other project that has a ton more options but it's lacking a bunch of protocols, i've been updating them here - http://sarvatt.com/git/cgit.cgi/xtruss/log/?h=working
<chrisccoulson> i fixed a couple of upgrade issues last night
<chrisccoulson> Sarvatt - that looks interesting
<Sarvatt> like you can hook into an existing window ala xwininfo, or launch an app as an arguement
<chrisccoulson> hi ara, do you want to send out a call for testing karmic this morning?
<ara> chrisccoulson, sure, it is everything in place in your PPA?
<ara> mozilla's ppa, sorry
<chrisccoulson> yeah, everything is in there now with the exception of any xulrunner rdepends (we don't need those just yet for karmic, so i will port those once I have jaunty ready)
<ara> chrisccoulson, OK, I will prepare the tracker and the call and will send it out in the next hour
<chrisccoulson> ara - excellent, thanks
<ara> chrisccoulson, do you want me to hide Hardy on the tracker to avoid confusion? is the hardy testing done? are you happy with it? or you prefer to keep it active just in case someone wants to test it as well?
<chrisccoulson> i think we should keep it active for now
<ara> OK
<Sarvatt> hah! the chrome/chromium issues I was having *were* caused by the CSD stuff
<chrisccoulson> ara - we should probably reiterate too that there are still quite a lot of applications on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list which need testing for hardy
<Sarvatt> so much for that 6 hours or so of debugging :)
<chrisccoulson> i've been testing most of them myself, but i haven't had very much feedback on them
<ara> chrisccoulson, ok
<seb128> Sarvatt, ok, your cairo is in the ubuntu-desktop ppa now
<seb128> Sarvatt, can you open a bug on launchpad about the chrome issue and tag it gtk-csd so it's tracked?
<seb128> asac, ogra: hey
<ogra> yes ?
<seb128> asac, ogra: who cares about armel builds?
<seb128> the gobject-introspection build failure impacts on other things
<seb128> ie the telepathy stack is failing behind now
<ogra> seb128, NCommander and me
<seb128> I'm just raising it in case you do care for alpha2
<seb128> ogra, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gobject-introspection/0.6.14-1ubuntu1
<seb128> ogra, that makes telepathy-glib being outdated
<seb128> which breaks telepathy-mission-control now
<ogra> oh, wait, thats on dyfet's list+
<seb128> ogra, ok, I'm just telling you it has impact on other components
<seb128> you do what you want with the information ;-)
<Sarvatt> seb128: I was wrong, you need to have a ton of tabs open to trigger it :(
<asac> ok seems maverick will not produce images soon then ;)
<Sarvatt> still getting it
<asac> (armel)
<seb128> slomo, there?
<didrocks> slomo: hey, I'm having troubles in patching valac to build it (bootstrap issues)
<seb128> slomo, there for a vala build question?
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i just set up my new network scanner, and simple-scan crashes when i try to scan from it :(
<RAOF> Woo!  Compiz works pretty nicely as a WM for Unity.  I can have my <Super> key back!
<didrocks> RAOF: you mean, you have mutter -> unity plugin and compiz ?
<RAOF> didrocks: No, just Compiz.  So unity's WM integration - presenting the windows on pressing the Ubuntu icon, presenting the app windows on right click of their icon - doesn't work.  But that's moderately well handled by existing compiz plugins anyway.
<didrocks> RAOF: oh nice
<RAOF> And I prefer compiz as a window manager :)
<tseliot> RAOF: how did you do that? compiz --replace?
<RAOF> tseliot: Yup.  Followed by running /usr/bin/unity
<tseliot> ok
<slomo> seb128, didrocks: yes?
<Sarvatt> so are we going back to having a compiz wrapper again?
<seb128> Sarvatt, no, why?
<seb128> slomo, the changes are applied to the source
<slomo> to the .vala files?
<Sarvatt> i just read the scrollback from yesterday and robert_ancell talking about merging it from debian
<seb128> slomo, or if you change a vapi it tries to call valac on build to update the .c
<seb128> slomo, or valac is not available, at least not in the first build
<seb128> which is trying to build it for the second build
<seb128> slomo, how do you solve this?
<seb128> slomo, should changes be applied only to the normal build?
<slomo> either that or patch the .c/.h files too
<seb128> Sarvatt, right, merging means taking what debian has and applying our changes over that no?
<Sarvatt> the wrapper has a plus side, gtk-window-decorator actually stops when you switch away from compiz with it, we could just leave the checks in compiz and make a minimal wrapper or something
<seb128> slomo, we tried that but it triggers some valac call during the first build
<seb128> slomo, the .vapi was before the .c in the patch so the timestamp should have been correct
<slomo> seb128: gnar, AM_MAINTAINER_MODE :)
<slomo> ok, only apply those changes to the builds after bootstrapping
<seb128> ;-)
<Sarvatt> or else make disabling effects in the capplet forcibly stop gtk-window-decorator
<seb128> slomo, that's why I was thinking as well
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<slomo> seb128: not sure how to do that with the quilt source format though
<slomo> you probably have to add a second patches directory and call quilt by hand
<seb128> sabdfl, but Amaranth said the decorator should not do anything if compiz is not running
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sabdfl, sorry that was for Sarvatt
<seb128> Sarvatt, ^
<seb128> slomo, right, it's a bit hackish, other option is to build-depends on valac
<seb128> slomo, now that vala is available I'm not sure how much of an issue that is ;-)
<Sarvatt> one sec, let me trace it and see what its doing when its on after disabling compiz
<slomo> seb128: that would be like gcc then, not too bad ;)
<slomo> do you have 0.9.1 in ubuntu btw? or 0.8.1?
<seb128> slomo, 0.9.1
<slomo> ok
<Sarvatt> its sure as heck not not doing anything - http://sarvatt.com/downloads/gtkdecorator.txt
<seb128> we should fix that
<seb128> but having a slow wrapper running at login is not the way to go
<Sarvatt> just making it stop when effects are disabled in the appearance preferences would probably be the best bet, but i dont think the wrapper is that bad of an idea if the checks could be kept in compiz since those are what made it slow
<Sarvatt> but right now its kind of sketchy, compiz starts and starts gtk-window-manager before the checks are done
<Sarvatt> so if compiz fails its still running, and you get bug reports from people with crappy video like mga with the panel disappearing :)
<Sarvatt> anyway with compiz 0.9 it wont really be a problem anymore since GL is optional
<didrocks> seb128: slomo: ok, thanks :)
<slomo> didrocks: please send me a diff with your changes or file a debian bug :)
<didrocks> slomo: it's already in trunk and I guess you don't use dbus wrapper yet (it fixes that), do you think it worth patching it for you or wait for next upstream release?
<didrocks> slomo: it's just that our dx team needs it, that's why we can't wait :)
<Sarvatt> compiz is on life support in debian though, it hasn't really been updated outside of taking patches from ubuntu since october which is why we're on this old 0.8.4 still
<seb128> didrocks, I guess he was saying that rather for the packaging changes we do
<seb128> didrocks, not especially for the one diff we apply now to the code
<slomo> yes
<seb128> Sarvatt, there is a newer 0.8?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I have to sent the LD_PRELOAD in debian/rules/ (not sure about how it work though), as its in "if ubuntu" already
<slomo> didrocks: fwiw, i'd prefer to not b-d on valac but call quilt with a different patch directory ;)
<Sarvatt> yeah 0.8.6 came out 3 months ago
<slomo> didrocks: i'll include that patch with the next upload, i already wanted it in the last one but forgot about it :(
<didrocks> slomo: do you understand what it does? I don't understand how "LD_PRELOAD= make check" call the testsuite not under fakeroot. The fakeroot is a library which is added as LD_PRELOAD for each call? (or it's just for this testsuite?)
<didrocks> slomo: right now, I'm build-dep on vala, but next time we will have a patch needed for a vala file, I'll do a separate patch directory
<slomo> didrocks: yes, fakeroot is a library added by LD_PRELOAD
<didrocks> slomo: ok, that explains it so, thanks :)
<seb128> didrocks, <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I have to sent the LD_PRELOAD
<seb128> didrocks, the patch is waiting in the bts, I already pinged slomo about it but it seems he forgot to ship it in the update yesterday
<didrocks> seb128: he just told me that above, I was surprized if didn't send that :)
<didrocks> seb128: sorry for the wrong ping :)
<seb128> np
<slomo> seb128: yes, sorry... i remembered that there was a patch while dput was running :(
<seb128> slomo, that's ok no hurry ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I'll probably have to ship some additional desktop files for evolution and banshee, launching them with different parameters for UNE, how do you want we handle that?
<didrocks> I mean, UNE is a gnome session, so OnlyShowIn won't work
<didrocks> dealing with applications.menu for not showing them in GNOME for instance (I don't like that idea)?
<seb128> didrocks, is unity using gnome-menus?
<didrocks> seb128: not sure about that, but I'm thinking about gnome first there
<didrocks> seb128: if I had some .desktop file, they will show up
<seb128> if you use GNOME you can have normal modes for those
<seb128> well use desktop with NotShowIn=GNOME
<didrocks> ok, if unity isn't going to use gnome-menus
<seb128> well in any case standard launcher are optin
<didrocks> njpatel_: btw, will you use gnome-menus for showing applications ? ^
<seb128> they should probably display what they are asked to list
<seb128> not respect ShowOnlyIn
<didrocks> seb128: right, but it will be so "hide normal evolution and show evolution for UNE" in unity, doesn't sound good
<njpatel_> didrocks, erm, probably
<njpatel_> didrocks, actually, yes, we will
<didrocks> njpatel_: ok, thanks :)
<didrocks> so, that's an issue
<njpatel_> heh, I just seem to cause issues these days :)
<didrocks> njpatel: heh :-)
<seb128> didrocks, I don't understand
<didrocks> seb128: will it be unreasonable to hack gnome-menus to say "add UNE session and consider UNE derived from GNOME"
<didrocks> well, consider evolution
<seb128> didrocks, do you have a menu displayed?
<seb128> I though you just listed some desktop names
<seb128> you could list evolution-express.desktop
<didrocks> seb128: I'm speaking about the places to launch applications
<seb128> what is that?
<seb128> I can't comment I've not seen that yet and I don't know how it works
<didrocks> one sec
<seb128> I guess you can have a new desktop value
<seb128> like GNOME XFCE LXDE etc
<didrocks> seb128: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/383
<seb128> and have NotShowIn=UNE
<seb128> for normal evo
<didrocks> 3rd mockup
<seb128> and get UNE to respect it
<didrocks> but is it possible to say the "UNE" is GNOME + UNE
<didrocks> because I guess we want to take as well OnlyShowIn=GNOME
<didrocks> and not patching the whole world
<seb128> it's not the world
<seb128> it's only your launcher that need to get the UNE variants no?
<didrocks> the launcher needs to show UNE and GNOME variants
<didrocks> (I don't know the gnome-menus API, can you say "show me UNE and GNOME" or is it internal?)
<seb128> seems there is no clear way to solve what you try to do
<seb128> you say you have 2 GNOME sessions
<seb128> they both are GNOME
<seb128> and they should display different things
<didrocks> right, that's the issue
<seb128> I need to think about it
<seb128> I don't see a clean way to do it right now
<didrocks> apart from patching gnome-menus, which should be doable, I don't see with what I know from GNOME. That's why I prefer some brainstorming on it first. No hurry though :)
<seb128> I'm still unsure why you can't have both listed
<seb128> and pick the UNE variant to list it in the launcher
<didrocks> so, for UNE, we will have in UNE: OnlyShowIn=GNOME -> Show; OnlyShowIn=UNE -> Show; (OnlyShowIn=GNOME and) NotShowIn=UNE -> Don't show
<didrocks> seb128: let me look at gnome-menus API, I don't know if it filters itself all "GNOME", or if you can give it a name of a session
 * ayan waves.
<seb128> hey ayan
<didrocks> hey ayan
<tremolux> hello seb128, I'd like to do a software-center upload today; do you think you may have time to sponsor?
<seb128> tremolux, hey, sure, is it ready now or do you want an upload later?
<tremolux> seb128: cool, thx!  ok, I just need to update the changelog for the release
<tremolux> seb128: I'm not sure of the process - so I can upload to bzr trunk, can you take it from there?
<seb128> tremolux, ok, let me know when it's ready for upload
<seb128> tremolux, yes, I will roll the update from bzr when bzr is ready
<tremolux> seb128: awesome, thanks a lot
<seb128> you're welcome
<fta> Sarvatt, if you pull my dashboard branch, you'll get more readable big tables (hopefully)
<tremolux> seb128: ok, everything's all ready in trunk at lp:software-center
<tremolux> seb128: please let me know if there's anything else I need to do
<seb128> tremolux, ok, let me check that
<tremolux> seb128: k
<seb128> tremolux, do you know if s-c should build on lucid?
<seb128> tremolux, I've current aptdeamon from the ppa
<seb128> tremolux, I get
<seb128> Testing ./test_apthistory.py
<seb128> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/history.log'
<tremolux> seb128: hmm, I haven't tried building on lucid, I build in a maverick chroot
<seb128> tremolux, does that test work for you?
<seb128> tremolux,
<seb128> cd tests
<seb128> ./test_apthistory.py
<tremolux> seb128: hmm, it doesn't when run standalone, I get that error
<tremolux> seb128: let me look at this
<seb128> tremolux, thanks
<seb128> tremolux, the package build target does run the tests and break on that
<tremolux> seb128: ok, thanks for letting me know
<seb128> tremolux, ./test_software_channels.py fails as well
<seb128> tremolux, out of those I can build and run it fine
<seb128> tremolux, in fact it works now, dunno why it broke before, so only the history one is an issue
<tremolux> seb128: yeah, it's test problems, we added some new ones very recently and all the kinks aren't worked out yet clearly
<seb128> tremolux, I can skip the test if you want
<seb128> tremolux, I don't know what the policy is for those usually, I guess mvo try to get those to work before rolling a new version usually knowing him
<tremolux> seb128: yes, it'd be best
<tremolux> seb128: hrm, getting the same error at -r837 (which was the 2.1.2 release)
<tremolux> seb128: (just wanted to make sure it wasn't new code breaking it legitimately)
<seb128> tremolux, ok, so let's assume the test is buggy and skip it?
<tremolux> seb128: yes, I think that'd be fine; and I will fix the test after
<seb128> ok
<tremolux> seb128: also, the case is for a *very* corner condition
<tremolux> seb128: but somebody out there hit it so we added the case
<tremolux> seb128: thanks again, sorry for the trouble
<tremolux> seb128: (and I know the fix works in the code, it's a test case problem)
<seb128> tremolux, uploaded
<tremolux> seb128: thanks!  \o/
<jcastro> didrocks: I think it would be handy if apport kept track of wether a person is in UNE or desktop. Does it do that and I'm just not seeing it?
<jcastro> didrocks: for example appmenu bugs, they could be in unity or normal GNOME for all I know
<didrocks> jcastro: no, but that can be a good idea to do at apport level
<didrocks> jcastro: we have the GDMSESSION variable for that
 * didrocks adds to TODO, shouldn't be hard
<jcastro> didrocks: if you file a bug pls sub me to it!
<didrocks> jcastro: done
<chrisccoulson> yay, jaunty langpacks uploaded :)
<jcastro> didrocks: yeah I think it will be useful too when we triage bugs from banshee-meego vs. normal banshee, etc.
<chrisccoulson> i bet my ISP hates me, i was only 2GB under my bandwidth limit last month
<didrocks> jcastro: maybe add it as a tag?
<jcastro> didrocks: yeah, I see people adding "ubuntu-une" tags already
<didrocks> jcastro: right, ubuntu-une and ubuntu-desktop can be good :)
<jcastro> sounds good to me
<htorque> jcastro: i think the ubuntu-une tag already gets added automatically
<jcastro> htorque: oh ok, so you didn't add that by hand on the bugs you just filed?
<htorque> jcastro: nope
<jcastro> didrocks: wow, you fixed the bug already! :)
<didrocks> jcastro: false alert? I'm working on banshee now ;)
<didrocks> maybe that can have an incidence on apport, but it wasn't intentional :-)
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> enjoy your evening pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<dobey> seb128: hey
<dobey> seb128: do i actually need to put python-support in the Build-Depends-Indep? Or does it really only need to be in the Depends: on the binary package (and i presume cdbs adds it to python:Depends automatically anyway)
<seb128> dobey, it needs to be in the build-depends
<seb128> dobey, since it ships dh_pysupport
<seb128> which is used in the rules at build time
<dobey> ah ok
<dobey> thanks
<Sarvatt> fta: looks great! http://sarvatt.com/xorg-edgers/
<Sarvatt> definitely a lot better at 1024x600 :)
<fta> \o/
<rickspencer3> didrocks, around at all?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks I have a totally random question for you
<rickspencer3> I'm trying to figure some stuff out about the Ubuntu work items
<didrocks> rickspencer3: do you want random answers too? ;)
<rickspencer3> a whole bunch looked like they were added on June 1th
<didrocks> oh really?
<didrocks> for alpha2?
<rickspencer3> June 15th, that is
<rickspencer3> didrocks, well, according to the database
<rickspencer3> didrocks never mind
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I'm looking
<rickspencer3> didrocks, don't
<didrocks> rickspencer3: ok ;)
<rickspencer3> there's something weird in the data, but it's not because of you
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I didn't add anything or target a spec IIRC
<rickspencer3> well .. I never thoguht it was "because of you"
<rickspencer3> but I mean .. nm
<didrocks> or maybe, my "evil me" :-)
 * rickspencer3 pulls on clumps of hair
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I only asked you specifically because I knew you would answer
<rickspencer3> :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: heh :-)
<fta> Sarvatt, versions should now be properly sorted (it was a basic string sort before), let me know if you notice something weird
<Sarvatt> fta: are 502: bad gateway errors common? :)
<fta> Sarvatt, no, i run it every 15min, i just get a handful per week
<fta> but it's often slow :(
<fta> i will add caching soon
<Sarvatt> i'm just updating it locally, my server is limited to jaunty because of upstart and haven't gotten around to building everything from bzr
<Sarvatt> darn 3 in a row, takes 10 minutes to time out
<fta> Sarvatt, go complain to #lp ;)
<fagan> fta: I thought its #launchpad
<fta> yep
<fagan> oh you just shortened it :)
<fta> Sarvatt, fixed the css in my last commit for today.
<fta> i like chromium's inspector to debug css
<fagan> fta: ive been using the opera one its really nice
<Sarvatt> fta: btw does this make any sense for chromium? http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/chromium-colormap-fix.patch
<fta> Sarvatt, iirc, bratsche discussed about that with upstream (evmar), i don't remember how it ended
<bratsche> Sarvatt: What is that colormap for?
<bratsche> fta: btw, I think the rgba stuff is temporarily out of gtk+ in Meerkat for now.  I will be reintroducing it I think, but I'd like to create a different environment variable than the one you were using.
<Sarvatt> looks like video controls
<fta> bratsche, noted. this rgba thing's been causing me lots of issues (with no visible benefits) but as long as there's a workaround, i'm fine.
<bratsche> Sarvatt: Do you still have the rgba patch in your gtk+?  Does this patch actually make a difference?
<Sarvatt> i'm test building it, and yep i have the previous 12 gtk's in archives
<fta> Sarvatt, just one comment about chromium patches, i use the same packaging from maverick to hardy, so all patches are shared. i hope it won't break backports
<bratsche> Sarvatt: Cool, let me know how it works out.  And make sure you remove fta's patch which sets the environment to disable rgba colormaps.
<bratsche> Is there a url to view this source file online?  I don't have the Chromium code on my machine and I don't really want to pull it down.
<fta> http://src.chromium.org/svn/trunk/src/
<Sarvatt> yeah i'm trying to track down a problem with chromium with cairo 1.9.8
<Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/RenderThemeGtk.cpp
<bratsche> Thanks.
<Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/RenderThemeGtk.cpp.txt
<Sarvatt> easier :)
<Sarvatt> thats the patched one, sorry
<bratsche> This looks like it's just going to revert all drawing to using the system colormap instead of the default one.
<bratsche> I don't see anything specific to plugins or video here.
<fta> iirc, the rgba patches caused two issues in chromium: 1/ flash crashing and 2/ the tab transparency gone when dragged
<bratsche> Or maybe I don't understand which situations drawable == NULL and which it's not NULL.
<fta> (well, 2/ is caused by the workaround)
<bratsche> fta: The tab transparency being gone was a result of your patch, because you disabled all RGBA colormaps.  That's why I am going to introduce a toolkit-level environment variable.
<fta> yep
<bratsche> So when this lands again, it will have an environment that reverts the behavior of gdk_screen_get_default_colormap().
<bratsche> And we can use that until evmar gets us a real fix.
<Sarvatt> tab transparency being gone? thats actually somewhat like what i'm seeing with the new cairo, by patch do you mean just the XLIB_SKIP_RGBA_VISUALS in the wrapper?
<fta> yes
<Sarvatt> ah ok not the same thing thing, i'm getting screwed up loading animations on the tab icons and the tabs themselves disappear when i open enough tabs to make the icons go away
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-18
<schmichael> can someone point me to good docs on how to integrate with the main appindicator icon?
<schmichael> preferably in python
<schmichael> this seems too high level: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
<schmichael> this isn't exactly comprehensive: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators#Python
<schmichael> and this is for C and doesn't really tell what I should do: http://people.canonical.com/~ted/libappindicator/current/AppIndicator.html
<schmichael> 6pm Pacific timezone is probably the wrong time to ask
<RAOF> schmichael: This isn't really the correct channel.  You probably want #ubuntu-app-devel or #ayatana.  That said, there are multiple things you could mean here: do you want to integrate with the messaging menu?  With the Me menu?  With the sound menu?  Or just use the replacement notifiation-area-like appindicator?
<schmichael> holy shit that's a lot of menus
<schmichael> um
<schmichael> I think the messaging menu
<schmichael> where Mail, Compose, and Broadcast live
<schmichael> I've never even heard of ayatana
<schmichael> Sorry for posting in the wrong channel, I think one of the pages I cited says to drop by here
<RAOF> That's ok.
<RAOF> Right; so you're looking for information about the messaging menu.  I think python-indicate is the package you'll be needing, and gwibber-service is an example of a python app using it.
<schmichael> I think I'll just use libnotify and figure out what I want to do about an icon later
<schmichael> ah
<schmichael> hm
<schmichael> looking
<RAOF> Your app is something that presents messages, right?
<schmichael> yes
<RAOF> Yeah, python-indicate will be what you're after then.
<schmichael> hm, can't find that in pypi
<schmichael> ah but there's a deb
<RAOF> âapt-get source gwibber-serviceâ might help you work out how to use it if you can't find better documentation.
<schmichael> how is python-indicate different from python-appindicator?
<schmichael> I've been toying with the latter and it seems to create a new icon entirely
<RAOF> App indicators are the replacement for the notification area.  They're for generic apps which want some form of notification-area like control system - see for example Banshee, gtg, the power manager & bluetooth thingies.
<schmichael> gotcha
<schmichael> python-indicate seems to offer the same api though
<schmichael> er, similar
<RAOF> The API should be substantially the same, they're both based on dmusmenu.
<RAOF> Ahem. dbusmenu.
<schmichael> any idea where docs might live?
<schmichael> I'll look at gwibber
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> I wouldn't be surprised if the pydocs weren't bad; we often have good docstrings in my experience.
<schmichael> Thanks for the help. I'm a web/server python developer trying to take a stab at a desktop client
<schmichael> Very difficult to figure out where to start
<schmichael> Also, I'm at a pub. Which may be the wrong place to be hacking
<RAOF> Nonsense!
<schmichael> :)
<schmichael> Pint #2 in progress
<schmichael> First one might have been 8% ABV, a poor choice
<schmichael> This one is 5.4% though, so I should be able to recover
<schmichael> RAOF: so gwibber appears to try to load a desktop file from the directory it's launched from...
<schmichael> ...do you know if this is important?
<schmichael> And if so, why from the dir it's launched from, shouldn't desktop files be in HOME directories?
<schmichael> or at least not by executables
<RAOF> As I understand it you need to stick a .desktop file somewhere that the Messaging menu checks in order to register yourself.  After all, you can _start_ apps from the messaging menu.
<schmichael> I have so much to learn
<schmichael> I barely know what a .desktop file is...
<schmichael> ...just that it describes desktop applications
<schmichael> and associated resources (icons, translated names, etc)
<schmichael> Web development is so much easier
<schmichael> You have GET variables, request data (POST/PUT variables), and each request/response cycle is completely independent
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> james_w, do you have an updated empathy indicator patch?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> hey robert_ancell, bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<robert_ancell> pitti, hello
<seb128> hey there
<pitti> it's a Seb!
<baptistemm> hello
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> hello baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut didrocks
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> lut baptistemm didrocks
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, I have empathy updated ready for maverick.  This will be the first package to have a definite dependency on GSettings.  Any final words?
<baptistemm> salut seb128 didrocks pitti and robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> baptistemm, hey
<pitti> hello baptistemm
<pitti> robert_ancell: wohoo!
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey, I've been trying to figure from empathy guys if they will depends on gtk3 for a week now
<didrocks> robert_ancell: they have a shared gconf key, we should maybe look at that
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm fine with gsettings, not with gtk3
<seb128> robert_ancell, I guess we can go for it but we will need to distro patch to build with gtk2 if required
<robert_ancell> seb128, so what do you think?  Shall we leave it in bzr/a ppa wait and see what they do, or roll back if there is a problem
<seb128> robert_ancell, what is your take on updates? did you pick that one for a reason or do you plan to start doing GNOME 2.31 updates?
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw I was wrong about new poppler it doesn't require new cairo
<robert_ancell> seb128, picked that one because you mentioned it, debian already has it in experimental, there's lots of stability updates and the geolocation is a nice new feature
<seb128> robert_ancell, got the new cairo in the ubuntu-desktop ppa as well
<baptistemm> anyone to review lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/bluez/main and lp:~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main?
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you enable geolocation?
<robert_ancell> seb128, sweet, is that in bzr too?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I figure we'll disable at a later date if it causes problems
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, Sarvatt did the update I just sponsored to get some testing there
<seb128> robert_ancell, the issue is that it will need mir for the libchamplain etc
<seb128> robert_ancell, it can't build until then
<seb128> robert_ancell, otherwise back to the topic I think empathy is fine to update, limited risk, easy to downgrade and nice changes
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you want me to upload it with the geoclue stack for now?
<robert_ancell> seb128, why can't it build?  what happens in maverick if you depend on a universe package?
<seb128> robert_ancell, it depwaits
<robert_ancell> Ah ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, the main builders don't know about universe
<seb128> so they will not find the binaries
<robert_ancell> seb128, but they can have universe build-eeps right?
<robert_ancell> deps
<seb128> no
<seb128> they don't know about universe
<seb128> ie universe is not in their sources.list
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> I will sponsor that
<robert_ancell> ok, it's in bzr
<seb128> sorry I didn't follow up on other things you mentioned
<robert_ancell> np
<seb128> where are the compiz updates?
<robert_ancell> in bzr (~compiz_)
<seb128> I'm also not sure if you let the gnome-menus merge etc for me to finish or still planned to do it
<seb128> I got busy with other changes
<seb128> but I can catch up today
<robert_ancell> yeah, I've just left that one for now, it had changes I didn't understand
<seb128> just apply those ;-)
<seb128> which ones? want to discuss those now?
<robert_ancell> nah, I don't let it through unless I can put a changelog entry and a patch header :)
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw you still have one work item for alpha2 to write a mir for d-conf
<seb128> robert_ancell, do we need to get d-conf installed for the new empathy yet?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, but the next release requires it
<seb128> ok, so will do
<seb128> I will do the libglib update today
<seb128> robert_ancell, sorry lot of context switch and catchup, we have low overlap recently and I feel you will call it a week rsn ;-)
<robert_ancell> you got 10 minutes :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, what are the gnome-menus changes you didn't understand? the ones with "??" in the changelog?
<seb128> robert_ancell, so 06_menus_rename.patch and 08_menus_prefix.patch is a debian change
<seb128> they prefixed the names on their menus to not conflict with kde
<seb128> it did create extra work and some issues though and is not required since the kde ones are already prefixed in ubuntu
<seb128> so we don't use those debian changes
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, looking over it now.  Nothing stands out.  I think it was just a combination of the prerm/postinst changes, the cache and just not being familiar with the pacakge
<robert_ancell> compared to compiz it looks simple :)
<seb128> the admin one is to hide things which require sudo if you are not in the admin group to use those
<seb128> no point to lists entries you can't use
<seb128> robert_ancell, great work on the merges btw
<seb128> robert_ancell, you did some I wouldn't have started on seing the number of changes, it sometime seems lot of work for low benefit...
<seb128> but I guess it's still nice to do those if we can once a cycle to see our changes and reduce delta where we can
<robert_ancell> I think if we're going to merge we have to do them all otherwise they'll just get harder and harder to merge in the future
<seb128> right
<seb128> sometime it's easy the other way around
<seb128> diff what debian changed since we merges and apply those changes to what we have
<robert_ancell> sure
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, do you know about the latest webkit - 1.3?  Is that going to be released in time for Maverick?
<robert_ancell> (and where are their releases?)
<didrocks> (2nd warning try) there is a shared gconf key for the used font with empathy, not sure how that can be handled with gsettings
<robert_ancell> didrocks, shared between what?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: that was what Zdra told me, I can ask him what else uses it
<seb128> didrocks, we will get this gconf, gsettings sync issue for some things anyway
<seb128> we will need to sort it
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but didn't we tell at UDS "we won't update apps using shared keys?"
<seb128> robert_ancell, I guess empathy uses the desktop font settings
<robert_ancell> has anyone got any ideas about the gconf->dconf migration?  It requires you to restart your sessing for your keys to be migrated (if the package has a migration script).  If you upgrade and restart your app it will use blank keys until the session is restarted and the migration occurs.  I assume this then overwrites the keys you might have just set
<robert_ancell> session
<seb128> didrocks, we don't want to step in tricky situations like breaking mimetype handles or automounting or that sort of things
<robert_ancell> man my spelling is awful at the moment
<didrocks> seb128: ok, for a font settings, it seems not to be so much a big deal
<seb128> didrocks, I think if empathy users have to change fonts in empathy that's a fair trading for the new version
<didrocks> just wanting to point that :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> robert_ancell: maybe we can drop the magic file to say "restart required"
<seb128> robert_ancell, well after distro versions change we highly encourage users to restart
<robert_ancell> didrocks, yeah, that was the best I could come up with
<robert_ancell> seb128, so can we accept "strange behaviour" if they don't?
<didrocks> in any case, with lucid -> maverick upgrades, people will have a new kernel, so it's highely possible they will restart :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, we will always have some anyway
<robert_ancell> so if empathy is upgraded and uses gsettings (successfully), we should upload any GNOME apps we want as long as they don't use GTK3 and we have the time to support them?
<seb128> right and we don't get tricky gconf, dconf shared key issues
<seb128> we should review the dg,conf keys used
<seb128> I'm a bit concerned for things like proxy to use
<robert_ancell> yeah
<robert_ancell> anything that is set by gnome-control-center is vulnerable
<seb128> but seems GNOME will mostly depends on gtk3
<huats> morning
<robert_ancell> seb128, what parts of GTK3?
<seb128> robert_ancell, gtkapplication
<seb128> they will also change their configure to use the new pkgconfig files
<seb128> ie gtk+-3.0
<robert_ancell> meh, is anyone using that?  (is it required for gnome shell?)
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's the libunique replacement for GNOME3
<robert_ancell> seb128, it doesn't sound too complex then, a candidate to port to GTK2?
<seb128> we might want try to convince upstream to backport gtkapplication to 2.22
<seb128> that would make our job easier
<seb128> robert_ancell, well I'm a bit careful about what might land in gtk3 and requirements that might be created on the road
<seb128> robert_ancell, let's not upgrade everything we can think of but only what we think would be really valuable
<seb128> if the new version is mainly a gsettings gtk3 port without nice changes there is no point to take the extra work and risk now
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm thinking it wont be anything too invasive that many apps will pick up, not without more warning than this
<seb128> we can have a better overview around 2.31.9x
<robert_ancell> yeah
<didrocks> urgh, I forgot the "halsectomy" of banshee for UNE
<seb128> then decide easily on what we will take
<seb128> robert_ancell, but I'm fine doing a GNOME3 ppa if you want
<didrocks> pitti: do you think you will have some time to play with removing hal from banshee or do you have a guide so that I can see what I can do?
<seb128> robert_ancell, we should just maybe keep focussing a bit on maverick and the platform for now and don't track every 2.31 versions
<seb128> robert_ancell, seems we can avoid some work and start getting those updates later in the cycle
<pitti> didrocks: that sounds like nontrivial upstream work; you'd need to switch to using media-player-info and add the parser to it which was added to rhythmbox
<pitti> to be able to parse music player capabilities, formats, etc.
<pitti> it's not just an 1:1 API conversion from libhal to gudev
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think we have most of the Maverick platform in place now.  There is some optional/universe stuff like GTK3 but the core platform is ther
<didrocks> pitti: urgh, maybe I should talk with upstream about that, that's clearly a showstopper for banshee by default on UNE
<pitti> !
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, next real task will be to get gtk3 packaged and gtk3 versions of libraries
<pitti> didrocks: why do we switch now?
<seb128> real -> requiring work
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: I though banshee switched to udev etc previous cycle?
<pitti> didrocks: it's much slower and memory hungry and uses hal/hal-info; also, does it have u1 music store?
<robert_ancell> oh, what do you guys think about putting the latest sane-backends in Lucid?
<didrocks> pitti: we talked about that in the UNE session, and there is a better netbook interface that I've hacked on the last few days
<seb128> robert_ancell, what does it change?
<didrocks> pitti: yes, it has u1 music store plugin
<robert_ancell> seb128, lots of bug fixes, I have it in Maverick now, and a Lucid PPA.  It would help a lot of users.  Don't know the best way to test it
<robert_ancell> they took ages to make a release
<seb128> robert_ancell, do a sru bug, hard to say without saying the diff
<seb128> seeing
<robert_ancell> that's the issue, the diff will be huge, and there's no way to test any significant proportion of the drivers
<seb128> robert_ancell, but seems it something that should be doable, maybe let sit in the candidate update for a while
<seb128> to make sure it gets testing
<robert_ancell> perhaps the PPA will be good enough, and users will find out about it on the forums
<pitti> seb128: I don't know, I'm not following banshee development
<pitti> I'm currently dealing with u{dev,disks}-ifying xfce :)
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you have an opinion about the sane sru?
<pitti> unless it changed ABI, sounds ok; it's by and large adding support for new hw?
<RAOF> didrocks: There's a gudev backend in development, Alex Launi has done the initial work.
<robert_ancell> pitti, and fixing bugs in existing drivers.  There were some specific models that people were having problems with and used to work in Jaunty
<pitti> robert_ancell: diff is still interesting to see what kind of changes it has
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll SRU it up next week
<didrocks> RAOF: do you think it will be finished before our feature freeze?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I can test it on a Canoni LiDE 40, but that has worked for ages
<pitti> "Canon"
<robert_ancell> without a hardware lab we can't be sure it won't cause regressions.  and it's too much work I think to take individual patches
<robert_ancell> beer o'clock!  See you guys later
<RAOF> didrocks: Not unless someone steps up and finishes it.
<didrocks> enjoy your week-end robert_ancell
<didrocks> RAOF: ok, I'll see with jcastro if we can leverage some community help there
<RAOF> Dinner making time!
<didrocks> RAOF: enjoy :)
<didrocks> seb128: if you have some time today, I sponsored kenvandine package for indicator-network yesterday evening. It should be waiting in NEW
<seb128> didrocks, ?
<seb128> didrocks, I newed it yesterday evening I think
<seb128> didrocks, or did that didn't work?
<didrocks> seb128: oh sweet, I didn't check TBH, I wasn't thinking you connected back
<seb128> I did
<didrocks> right, it's done, you are so quick :)
<seb128> there is usually quite some sponsoring required on thursday
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<seb128> kenvandine desktop set upload right don't work for quite some dx sources
<seb128> so I usually try to come back to sponsor things he can't upload
 * seb128 hugs didrocks back
<didrocks> oh ok, it's the "late Thursday tasks" so? :)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> pitti, we stopped assigning bugs to desktop-bugs now btw
<pitti> seb128: oh, good to know
<seb128> pitti, just fyi since I noticed you reassigned one to it
<pitti> yes, I'm afraid I have no time for that one, and it didn't seem that urgent
<seb128> pitti, yeah, no discussion about the bug itself ;-)
<pitti> seb128: is there a replacement for desktop-bugs, or we just stop caring?
<seb128> "stop caring" for whatever that means to you ;-)
<seb128> we still care about the bug but we have tools to build buglists nowadays without having to assign those to a team in launchpad
<pitti> ah, right
<seb128> we can do json queries for those now
<seb128> ie do "bugs reported on all components this team is subscribed to"
<kamstrup> Is it me or are the icons and tiles and the launcher (trunk) a bit blurry?
<chrisccoulson> is it possible to do a dist-upgrade between releases with PPA sources? i tested a hardy -> lucid upgrade last night before realising that firefox hadn't been updated because the new version is still only staged in a PPA
<chrisccoulson> i suppose that's a mvo question, but he's not around
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what do you mean exactly?
<seb128> it's always possible to run dist-upgrade, it will just grab newest versions and install those
<seb128> or do you mean "does the dist-upgrade tweak ppa source lines as well as normal distro ones"
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i want to do an upgrade from hardy -> lucid, but keeping the u-m-s PPA as a source
<seb128> dist-upgrader
<seb128> using the graphical dist-upgrader you mean?
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<seb128> I'm not sure
<chrisccoulson> i wanted to make sure the upgrade still works, but i forgot that it disables the PPA sources before the upgrade
<seb128> I would add the hardy and lucid ppa lines to the source before running it
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I guess it's a mvo question then yes
<seb128> he will be back on monday
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i can wait until then. i've got lots of karmic bugs to fix already ;)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks, can you check bug #595867
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 595867 in evolution (Ubuntu) "recipient address with german umlauts gets broken on new/reply .. mail (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595867
<seb128> didrocks, the descriptions says it's happening after the recent update
<didrocks> seb128: do you think it's the mailing list encoding in e-d-s?
<seb128> didrocks, I guess it would be the e-d-s change
<seb128> well, I'm not sure
<didrocks> hum, not sure I have the time right now, will try to reproduce and revert this changeâ¦
 * didrocks will never ever have serious time to work on banshee anyway :/
<seb128> I can't confirm though
<seb128> I've tried to reply to emails from macslow and it works
<seb128> didrocks, try maybe just asking questions about since when he's having the issue and how to trigger it easily for now
<didrocks> oh really?
<didrocks> seb128: sure I will thanks
<MacSlow> seb128, cover-display in notificatiosn again?
<seb128> MacSlow, no sorry, an evolution bug with names with umlauts, I was taking you as an example to test it
<MacSlow> seb128, ah ok
<seb128> MacSlow, sorry for the highlight ;-)
<MacSlow> didrocks, ok... bring on the german umlauts then :)
<didrocks> MacSlow: heh, you have an uptodate lucid too? can you try to hit reply on an email from an expeditor having an umlaut in the name, please?
<MacSlow> didrocks, pulled lucid updates yesterday... recent enough?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> MacSlow: should be :)
<MacSlow> didrocks, ok did that... everything looks ok in the email-reply window
<seb128> MacSlow, thanks
<didrocks> MacSlow: sweet, thanks a lot :)
<MacSlow> seb128, didrocks: np yw
<seb128> didrocks, let's start by asking if the issue is in the composer or in the email sent and if that happens with any names with an umlaut
<didrocks> seb128: done, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, thank you
<didrocks> bug #525807 is really embarrassing when you are giving an ubuntu presentation
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 525807 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "[upstream] [3.2.1] OOo Slide Show and Fullscreen modes - not full screen under compiz (affects: 86) (dups: 6) (heat: 462)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525807
<seb128> didrocks, did you get hit by this?
<didrocks> yeah, during the ubuntu party :)
<didrocks> and I'm still hit by this
<didrocks> (I'll give an ubuntu presentation in Paris this evening)
<didrocks> just tested again and yeah, still there :/
<seb128> we should make sure it gets fixed for .1
<seb128> ccheney should be back to work so I guess he can work on this one
<didrocks> right, this one should be high IMHO to not get dropped for .1
 * didrocks tries in metacity as it seems to happen only with compiz from the report
<seb128> you should use your netbook and unity for presentations I guess ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, unity had some issues with OOo fullscreen too during the party :-)
<didrocks> ok, works with metacity, I can workaround with that
<didrocks> I put that in autohide but when you show what's new, it wasn't really convenient
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's not germany's day
<didrocks> why?
<ccheney> the fix that went into 3.2.1 should make it into our .1
<didrocks> ccheney: apparently, the last person told that the fix in 3.2.1 doesn't work
<didrocks> hey btw :)
<ccheney> didrocks: hi :)
<ccheney> didrocks: hmm, will have to look at the report again, to fix it properly required a pretty invasive change upstream, from what i recall so they were trying to first just fix it for gnome (iirc)
<ccheney> but it has been a while since i last read the status for the bug
<didrocks> ccheney: ok, if you need testing, do not hesitate
<ccheney> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> thanks ccheney :)
<seb128> ccheney, hey
<seb128> ccheney, how are you?
<ccheney> seb128, doing pretty well :)
 * ccheney brb, have to run to restroom before his daily mumble meeting
<didrocks> 14:46:22        seb128 | it's not germany's day
<didrocks> seb128: what happened to those poor germans? :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, serbia scored one, germany got one player out due to a fault and they didn't score the penalty they had
<didrocks> ok, it was football, not something broken on ubuntu :)
<seb128> didrocks, no ;-)
<seb128> right, it's football
<didrocks> :-)
<seb128> ccheney, didrocks: the slideshow bug is correctly lucid tasked with milestone for lucid .1 now
<didrocks> seb128: thanks a lot
<seb128> np, thank you for pointing it
 * ccheney back
<rickspencer3> good morning everyone
<seb128> rickspencer3, hello! how are you?
<didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi seb128 and didrocks
<rickspencer3> I
<didrocks> reboot, bbiab
<rickspencer3> m good, otp with stormy talking about guadec
<seb128> kenvandine, Riddell: could you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus if you have anything to set there?
<seb128> I will update the list of specs for the cycle in a bit
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> seb128, the heat for the twitter change in gwibber is off, for now
<kenvandine> seb128, they have postponed the change... but no new target date
<kenvandine> seb128, they haven't even turned on the new service yet...
<seb128> ok
<seb128> kenvandine, let's move it to alpha3 then?
<kenvandine> hopefully we'll hear when the new date is soon, hopefully it isn't too soon
<kenvandine> ok
<davidbarth> seb128, kenvandine: will update that now too; ping hard when it's my turn
<seb128> davidbarth, ok
<rodrigo_> is libappindicator0.1-cil broken in maverick? tomboy doesn't start for one user, while it works for another one
<rodrigo_> and can't build a tomboy packae, it complaiuns:
<rodrigo_> error CS0006: cannot find metadata file `/usr/lib/cli/appindicator-sharp-0.1/appindicator-sharp.dll'
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes, tedg is working on it right now
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> or I think he is
<seb128> check with him
<rodrigo_> tedg, ^^
<tedg> rodrigo_, Sorry, right now learning to hate mono's al >:-(  Should hopefully be fixed in a bit.
<rodrigo_> tedg, ok, let me know if you want me to test, I'm waiting on having it fixed for building a tomboy package
<didrocks> ok, let's call it a week, going to Paris to give a conference on Ubuntu now :)
<didrocks> enjoy your week-end everyone o/
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, have fun today and a nice weekend ;-)
<schmichael> Is there a simpler example than gwibber on using appindicator from python?
<seb128> schmichael, jockey
<schmichael> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> schmichael, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
<seb128> schmichael, there is a small code example there as well
<schmichael> seb128: yeah, I've done that, but it's a little too simple to be very useful
<schmichael> and it uses appindicator when evidently using indicate is preferred
<schmichael> and I'd like to integrate with the existing messaging appindicator
<schmichael> "NOTICE: 'jockey' packaging is maintained in the 'Bzr' version control system at:"
<schmichael> that's pretty cool!
<schmichael> seb128: I'm not understanding how jockey uses appindicator. It appears to me to just be a gtk app that uses notify
<schmichael> Considering I'm building a messaging related app, I think gwibber is probably what I should be looking at :(
<seb128> schmichael, well appindicator does basically what the example on the wiki or jockey are doing...
<seb128> ie adding a menu to an icon
<seb128> it's what you get for ie the bluetooth icon in lucid
<seb128> seems you want to integrate with the messaging menu though rather than using appindicator
<seb128> you can ask questions about that on #ayatana
<schmichael> hm
<schmichael> I have a messaging application which will pop-up notifications that need to fire an event (eg launch an app)
<schmichael> Since Ubuntu removed the ability for notifications to do anything, I figured appindicator was the route to go...
<schmichael> is that correct? should I take these questions to #ayatana?
<schmichael> (and wth is ayatana? I've been an Ubuntu user for years and never heard of that...)
<schmichael> "The Ayatana Project is the collective project that houses user interface, design and interaction projects started by Canonical." hm
<seb128> schmichael, the indicator work is ayatana work
<seb128> as is notify-osd
<seb128> schmichael, well, there is a specification about user interactions on the wiki
<seb128> schmichael, incoming messages should be queued in the message indicator
<seb128> schmichael, things which require user to know about and act with should probably be opened in a dialog
<schmichael> hm, interesting. reading the full MessagingMenu wiki now
<seb128> ok
<Rebus> Perhaps i dropped the question of starting XFCE-desktop in the wrong room (#xubuntu)?
<nessita> hello all
<nessita> didrocks: you around? I managed to break python-mkdebian ;-)
<arand> Is this a place to discuss potential papercuts? I that case I would like to point at Bug #479489 as a good candidate, I've even prepared to report a new bug before i found that, and did a writeup (use case abd all..): http://pastebin.org/340224
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 479489 in compiz (Ubuntu) "disable Super+MiddleClick by default (affects: 1) (heat: 15)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/479489
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-19
<andreserl> hi all, anyone quickly expert around?
<jimisrvrox> Anybody good with wireless in here? I was having some issues but got them fixed but ive got a few questions as to what the culprit could have been
<asac> didrocks: there? whats the current mechanism to shutdown again in unity?
<asac> like if there are not enough GL features etc?
<asac> i can start unity using mutter --plugins=... ... but it seems to restart over and over if i go through the gdm session
<Zdra> Hello, how can I get source package from maverick? packages.ubuntu.com doesn't seems to get maverick packages
<james_w> Zdra: launchpad
<james_w> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
<james_w> or https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<package name> if you know the source package name
<Zdra> ah, of course... thanks :)
<ScottL> Zdra, if you are running maverick you can also type, 'apt-get source <package name>'
<ScottL> make sure you are in a good directory for it because it will dump the source code in the current directory
<Zdra> ScottL, I know that ;)
<Zdra> ScottL, running lucid here, just wanted to backport glib/dconf
<fredp> Zdra: or you could add a deb-src line pointing to maverick.
<ScottL> yeah, i've edited sources.list for backporting as fredp mentions
<Zdra> good idea
<Zdra> dget with the launchpad url worked too :)
<Zdra> Hm, does someone knows why the maverick GTK package depends on newer libx* which are not in lucid?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-06-20
<didrocks> asac: hum, I think that's something to ask to the dx guys. I don't think that you can easily shutdown a mutter plugin like that
<fta> Sarvatt, hi, if you pull my dashboard branch, you should get a x2~x3 speedup after the 2nd run, and less timeouts from launchpad
<rohitnikocool> hi ubuntu
<rohitnikocool> how do i delete the older version of grub.
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<lifeless> hai
<RAOF> 'Ello
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-13
<rodrigo_> morning
<hggdh> morning folks, nm-applet seems to die when connecting to new wireless APs -- bug 796286
<rodrigo_> hey hggdh
<hggdh> morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hggdh, that bug doesn't exist in LP
<hggdh> rodrigo_: it does, it is just private
<rodrigo_> ah
<hggdh> I subscribed you to it
<hggdh> you can unsub if you are not interested, but do not make it public, there is a coredump in
<hggdh> rodrigo_: if you are still interested, I just posted a stacktrace on the bug
<rodrigo_> hggdh, yes, was looking at the code, but I'm afraid I don't know much about NM to fix it right now
<rodrigo_> it is clearly crashing because of a NULL hash table
<hggdh> rodrigo_: heh. Yeah, I was able to get that far also, but I do not know glib to keep on :-)
<hggdh> rodrigo_: OTOH, there are two new LightDM crashes :-)
<rodrigo_> well, glib part is clear, NM is calling g_hash_table_foreach with a NULL hash table
<rodrigo_> the problem is where that NULL hash table comes from
<hggdh> man, if you do not know, *I* have no hope...
<rodrigo_> cyphermox should know, so ping me later, when he wakes up
<hggdh> rodrigo_: roj, thanks
<chrisccoulson> urgh, since when did system sounds get enabled by default?
<chrisccoulson> i get really really irritating sounds every time i click on something now
<chrisccoulson> gaaaaargh, this is going to cause me to dive out of the window
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, should I have at-spi2-core installed by default?
<chrisccoulson> i just tried to turn on the screen reader in oneiric, and it failed miserably
<chrisccoulson> and at-spi2-core isn't installed
<chrisccoulson> i get this from orca without it:
<chrisccoulson> ** ERROR **: AT-SPI: COuldn't connect to accessibility bus. Is at-spi-bus-launcher running?
<Kaleo> pitti: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/791127 still an issue for you after the updates to Qt?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 791127 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QTJSC::Structure::materializePropertyMap()" [Critical,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> does anyone know why xvfb-run might be failing in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/2.7.6 (all architectures)?
<cjwatson> xvfb-run: error: Xvfb failed to start
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson, when did that start?
<chrisccoulson> i use xvfb-run in firefox, and i haven't noticed an issue yet
<fta> cjwatson, pass -e $LOGDIR/xvfb.log to it and cat that when it fails, so you can figure out why
<cjwatson> chrisccoulson: sometime between 8 June and 12 June
<cjwatson> fta: thanks, will try that.  I'll also try just kicking a retry ...
<ting> hi
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: looking now at the NM crashes
<cjwatson> still fails after a retry.  trying fta's suggestion ...
<fta> why is unity so slow in oneiric? when i move a window, it flickers a lot, and i can literally see the vertical refreshes
<fta> iirc, it was faster in natty. and mutter/gnome3 is not impacted in oneiric. it's as fast as expected
<fta> cjwatson, you may want to cat the log file unconditionally. i found the xvfb return code unreliable when i was using that for chromium
<cjwatson> fta: heh, if it returns non-zero it will build and I only somewhat care ;-)
<cjwatson> (but OK)
<fta> iirc, it's only 1 or 2 lines of logs
<cjwatson> er, I mean if it returns zero, obviously
<fta> i used to have to add build deps from time to time to please it, like libgl1-mesa-dri
<fta> also, i used to run it with -a
<cjwatson> let's see what 2.7.7 says
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, cool, hggdh is the one getting the crash, if you want more info
<hggdh> rodrigo_, cyphermox: and jibel, he just had it
<cyphermox> hggdh: rodrigo_: I think I just got the fix
<hggdh> cyphermox: I love you!
<cyphermox> hehe
<cyphermox> annoying, because this is temporary until I'm finished with teh signals stuff in libappindicator, then this is useless code that will get removed and simplified
<fta> cjwatson, you have your answer now ;)
<cjwatson> heh, and I screwed up error handling
<cjwatson> what's that, missing build-dep on libgl1-mesa-dri?
<pitti> Kaleo: I'll check bug 791127 on tomorrow's daily
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 791127 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QTJSC::Structure::materializePropertyMap()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791127
<Kaleo> pitti: thanks
<achiang> chrisccoulson: ping, did you build firefox5 b5 for armel somewhere? istr you were complaining about how long it took to build
<chrisccoulson> achiang, it's in oneiric
<chrisccoulson> and yeah, it takes about 18 hours to build ;)
<achiang> chrisccoulson: i don't see it in the firefox-next ppa?
<chrisccoulson> achiang, it's in oneiric proper. it won't be in the firefox-next PPA, as that doesn't build for armel
<achiang> chrisccoulson: ah, i see
<achiang> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks
<fta> chrisccoulson, only 18h? you're lucky ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<fta> cjwatson, most likely yes, but there's also your keymap errors
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin, I built gdm 3 locally as you suggested, but when doing so the patches didn't seem to apply - at least not 36_language_environment_settings.patch. The patch code seems to be right, though, because it applies if I use cdbs-edit-patch to edit it.
<GunnarHj> pitti: Any idea on what might cause this?
<cyphermox> hggdh: really did find the source of the issue now, but it's not easy to figure out exactly what, working on it now
<cyphermox> problem is with glib somewhere, I'm doing the same as friday, loading up from a git snapshot of glib to see if it's really all fixed there (again), and then I'll track it down to a commit
<hggdh> cyphermox: no prob
<cyphermox> hggdh: in the meantime it appears that reverting to libglib 2.29.4 works properly
<hggdh> jibel: ^
<cyphermox> heh, nevermind that, it's not working anymore
<cyphermox> unless it's because I messed around so much with my system that it's not in the state I expect it
<rodrigo_> ok, out for a bit, later all
<cyphermox> mterry: ping?
<mterry> cyphermox, yo
<cyphermox> sup?
<cyphermox> you getting crashes if you try to activate a wifi connection in nm-applet right now? (if you're on oneiric)
<mterry> cyphermox, no
<mterry> cyphermox, yes
<mterry> :)
<cyphermox> ;)
 * mterry learns not to answer before testing
<mterry> sorry for slow response
<cyphermox> I'm testing a fix now, I'll probably need sponsoring :)
<mterry> cyphermox, k
<cnd> Hi, I need some help determining the correct upstream and package versions for a new version of the libgrip library
<cnd> there's an abi change in libgrip as well as the larger abi change from gtk2 to gtk3
<cnd> the expert who started the library has left the project :)
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yes you should, at least in oneiric.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, i ended up having a few packages missing which i had to manually install to get orca working (at-spi2-core, libgail-3-common and libatk-adaptor)
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Yes, I need to add them to the seeds, on my agenda for this morning.
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, ah, ok. thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-14
<GreatOldOne> ^ya HPL reference
<RAOF> So, what aspect of our shell of peaceful reality do you want to shatter today?
<GreatOldOne> hey RAOF
<GreatOldOne> just waiting for the stars to be right so I can go home
<RAOF> Mm, a little Miles Davis goes very nicely with checking maintainerscript changes for sanity.
<GreatOldOne> so what?
<RAOF> So I think everyone should be forced to listen to Miles Davis while inspecting their maintainer scripts. :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> RAOF: How was your long weekend? Or did you not get that in Tassy?
<RAOF> We got the long weekend, yeah.
<RAOF> It's only WA that doesn't get the Queens Birthday :)
<TheMuso> Ah.
<RAOF> It was pretty good.  Did a bit of running up Mount Wellington, released Do 0.8.5 and the associated plugins, did a bit of gardening (both of Do bugs and of the physical garden) and capped it off with a little light hacking.
<TheMuso> Nice.
<TheMuso> Twas a little too wet to get outdoors for most of the weekend here, which is a pitty. Got some walking in though which is good.
<TheMuso> Anyway.
 * TheMuso -> lunch
<RAOF> Have deliciousness!
<TheMuso> That I certainly did.
<TheMuso> Hrm I have been kicked out of X and back to the login screen twice today.
<RAOF> Awkward.  Got logs to go with that?
<TheMuso> Probably, I'd need to look. Nothing in /var/crash though.
<TheMuso> brb
<TheMuso> back
<TheMuso> So would I be looking in the X logs then?
<RAOF> Yeah, as a quick check.  /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old.
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> Nothing real obvious, but at the end of that file, I get this.
 * TheMuso pastebins.
<TheMuso> http://paste.ubuntu.com/626321/
<TheMuso> Other than that, nothing stands out.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Looks like a standard shutdown; the meat (if there is indeed any) would be further up.
<TheMuso> HRM OK.
<RAOF> It's why apport doesn't always catch X server crashes; the server registers a SEGV handler and does some graceful shutdown (and our patch generally then gets it to re-emit the SEGV, so that apport can collect, but for some reason doesn't always work).
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Will have a look again should it occur again.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> GunnarHj: hm, no idea; the patches apply fine here, it builds great
<pitti> GunnarHj: how did you build? I use "bzr bd -- -b"
<GunnarHj> pitti: Good morning!
<pitti> hey GunnarHj, how are you?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Me too.
<GunnarHj> I'm fine, thank you.
<GunnarHj> pitti: or... I use bzr builddeb ... you did not mean what you wrote literally, right?
<cnd> pitti, I've got a question about gtk library versioning
<cnd> we've got a library called libgrip currently at version 0.1 for gtk2
<cnd> we're looking to abi bump it for gtk3 and for other changes
<pitti> GunnarHj: I did; "bd" is a convenience alias for builddeb
<cnd> the package in ubuntu is called libgrip-0.1-0
<pitti> cnd: apparently there are no reverse dependencies right now, so this should be rather easy?
<cnd> correct
<cnd> I just want to be sure we follow the correct protocol for version bumps with abi bumps
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, I'll try that, then. If I don't make it work, I'll save the log.
<cnd> the biggest thing that is throwing me is the version string in the package name itself
<cnd> which seems to be a gtk thing from what I gather
<pitti> cnd: no, it's not at all related to gtk
<cnd> oh, ok
<pitti> it's pretty standard practice if you want to maintain multiple series in parallel for a long time
<pitti> most libraries don't have a version string, just a SONAME
<cnd> yeah
<pitti> i. e.  libgrip.so.1 in libgrip1 package
<cnd> we don't plan to maintain the 0.1 version
<cnd> but I would think we should still bump it to 0.2
<pitti> then do that
<cnd> so libgrip-0.1-0?
<pitti> cnd: do you ever plan to support two major series for a year or so?
<cnd> no plans at this time :)
<pitti> cnd: unless you have a good reason for this version in the name, I'd just call it libgrip really
<pitti> and bump the soname if you switch to gtk3
<cnd> ok
<TheMuso> pitti: Do you know what is going to be done about gksu, given that upstream hasn't seen any attention since 2009? I ask because I am working on a11y settings atm, which lead me to discover gksu still uses GTK2 and gconf...
<cnd> so go to libgrip1
<pitti> cnd: or libgrip0
<pitti> cnd: but 0 might confuse people, and it's not like we are short on natural numbers, so might as well use 1 :)
<pitti> TheMuso: not much going on right now; I hope at some point we can get rid of the remaining handful of rdepends, and just use PK everywhere
<cnd> yeah
<cnd> ok, thanks pitti!
<pitti> TheMuso: also much better for a consistent UI
<TheMuso> pitti: Likely for this cycle?
<pitti> TheMuso: most probably not yet
<pitti> TheMuso: do we need it to use gtk3 for a11y?
<TheMuso> pitti: No, we shouldn't need to.
<TheMuso> pitti: I am doing some accessibility profile settings migration to gsettings, and was checking to see whether gksu's settings were in gsettings. Since they are not, then thats fine.
<TheMuso> Ok, is it not possible to change the mouse theme from the GNOME 3 UI any more?
<pitti> TheMuso: gnome-tweak-tool might allow it
<pitti> TheMuso: all the theme settings etc. moved there
<RAOF> Does gnome-tweak-tool actually work yet?
<pitti> no idea, I never used it so far
<RAOF> I think it still depends on gnome-shell.
<TheMuso> pitti: Right, rather big fail IMO.
<TheMuso> RAOF: I am about to test it, as I want to change my mouse cursor theme.
<TheMuso> ...and no GUI comes up, but I get the following in a console:
<TheMuso> GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'org.gnome.shell.clock' is not installed
<TheMuso> Trace/breakpoint trap
<TheMuso> So I think it wants something from gnome-shell to be present before it will work.
 * TheMuso takes the direct approach and tweaks gsettings by hand.
<RAOF> Yeah, that's totally the way to go.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Totally.
<TheMuso> Ok gnome-shell installed to get gnome-tweaktool working.
<TheMuso> ...and gnome-tweaktool's interface totally fails a11y wise. :S
 * TheMuso sighs.
<TheMuso> And gnome tweaktool doesn't even have what I am looking for.
<TheMuso> Oh wonderful. My mouse theme changes have taken after logging in again, but only for GTK2 apps.
<TheMuso> Even then it doesn't appear to be 100% consistant.
<ricotz> mterry, hello
<TheMuso> I suspect Michael is asleep at the moment, given how late it is in most of the US.
<ricotz> mterry, will it be possible to have bamf-gtk2/gtk3 in parallel?
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Good morning didrocks.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how was your week-end?
<TheMuso> didrocks: Not too bad thanks. Yourself?
<pitti> very nice; a friend of mine got married, so we went to Berlin
<pitti> yesterday we spent with gardening and some cleaning
<didrocks> TheMuso: I'm fine thanks ;)
<didrocks> pitti: oh nice, so party and relaxing in the same week-end :)
<broder> does anybody know of example code on how to use a struct as the key to a GHashTable? i'm mostly trying to figure out how best to write a hash function to combine the hashes of the struct's members
<pitti> broder: does GHashTable even care about the key type? I thought you just need to supply an appropriate hash_func
<broder> right - i was trying to figure out what such a hash function would look like
<pitti> which then would just need to xor the individual struct member's hashes together?
<broder> hmm...yeah, i guess that could work
<pitti> I don't have an example ready either
<broder> i'm going to go and think harder about my data structures before i write too much code
<pitti> but someting like g_int_hash(mystruct.int_field) ^ g_str_hash(mystruct.str_field) ^ ... should work
<pitti> broder: for combining existing hashes there's nothign better than xorg
<pitti> erk, "xor"
<pitti> autofingers..
<broder> haha :)
<seb128> hi desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey pitti rodrigo_
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> pitti, it's meeting reminder day!
<pitti> seb128: oh, thanks!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> lut didrocks
 * didrocks refrained himself for the two last hours to tell pitti about the meeting to let seb128 have the joy to tell it :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, ca va ?
<seb128> did everybody have a nice w.e?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, good one, and you?
<pitti> seb128: was indeed nice; we went to Berlin again, a friend of us got married
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<seb128> quite nice as well, weather was not that great half of the w.e (rainy at times) but still relaxing
<seb128> pitti, nice! ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien! Nice week-end with a wedding in Paris from Julie's cousin. Then, quieter Sunday and Monday :) Yours?
<seb128> didrocks, nothing fancy, family gathering on sunday and otherwise just tv, some reading, some shopping, some relaxing
<didrocks> nice :-)
<didrocks> get some rest is a nice activity as well :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, seems latest weechat forgot about the smart join/part filter?
<pitti> for you as well?
 * pitti now gets spammed with these
<didrocks> pitti: I didn't restart since today's update (didn't update since last friday)
<seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: ok, so I checked the old libs rdepends on friday afternoon, tomboy is the only thing keeping libgnome, libgnomeui, libbonobo, libbonoboui, libgnomecanvas on the CD
<didrocks> pitti: hum, no update for a while? you didn't get that in the previous weeks?
<pitti> not that I remember
<didrocks> 0.3.5-1 is working fine for smart filtering still there
 * pitti re-sets the filter config, let's see
<rodrigo_> seb128, right, no answer from alan mcgovern about the status of the gsettings bindings, btw
<rodrigo_> will talk to sandy later, when he wakes up, to see if there's something we can do
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks
<seb128> I'm close to suggest that we drop tomboy from the CD at least until that is sorted
<pitti> WFM
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, let's wait for you to check with sandy, then I will send an email to the ubuntu-desktop list about it
<rodrigo_> ok
<ricotz> hello everyone
<ricotz> seb128, hello :), you probably want to have a look at the cheese build failure https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73496829/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.cheese_3.0.0-0ubuntu1~natty1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> hey ricotz
<seb128> ricotz, how can it try to build when half the build-depends need promotion?
<ricotz> seb128, it is a ppa build, but the symbols file wasnt updated
<seb128> ricotz, that's not what is breaking the build
<seb128> ricotz, the version which got uploaded was basically the gnome3 ppa one
<seb128> ricotz, what breaks the build is that libclutter-dev in the serie you use doesn't depends on the gir
<seb128> which is probably an issue in oneiric as well, will be fixed when somebody merges clutte
<seb128> clutter
<ricotz> seb128, hmm, are we looking at the same thing
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, and you? :) not feeling lonely yesterday?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, heh, it was pretty dull in here yesterday ;)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> quite fine! what about you?
<seb128> ricotz, yes, your build fails with "dh_girepository: Could not find Clutter-1.0.typelib dependency"
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: dull? do you lack of things to work on? :-p
<chrisccoulson> i've got plenty of things to work on ;)
<ricotz> seb128, sorry, got sidetracked by the symbols check
<seb128> ricotz, which means gir1.2-clutter-1.0 is not installed
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. just getting ready to upload the final, final firefox 5 beta
<ricotz> seb128, right
<seb128> ricotz, either add the gir to the build-depends or fix clutter
<seb128> I will fix clutter in oneiric
<ricotz> i see, either way the symbols file needs some love too ;)
<seb128> right
<seb128> well cheese is not going to build for a while anyway
<seb128> it will need quite some libs promotion or to be demoted to universe
<seb128> I would lean toward the second option but the ubiquity guys planned to use it
<seb128> or, I should check with cassidy as well
<seb128> somebody told me they planned to use it as well this cycle
<cassidy> seb128, yep?
<seb128> cassidy, do you plan to use libcheese-gtk?
<seb128> cassidy, is that going to be optionnal? short story is that we don't want libcheese in the default installation
<cassidy> seb128, we do, it's optional so far (only used to create an avatar) but will probably become a hard dep soon (used to detect if there is a camera plugged in)
<seb128> hum ok, so we will need to patch that you
<seb128> you->out
<seb128> cassidy, if you keep it optional or find another way to detect a camera than pulling the clutter stack with gesture libraries in that would be nice
<pitti> cassidy: hm, libudev is enough to detect cameras
<cassidy> is there a libcheese and libcheese-gtk ?
<pitti> or checking /dev/v4l/*
<cassidy> pitti, well yeah, but libcheese already does it for us with a nice API
<pitti> if you use other functionality from libcheese, then that makes sense; just for cam detection it's very heavy, though
<cassidy> we use the avatar selector widget yeah
<cassidy> I don't mind having this one optional
<cassidy> but the camera detection is important enough to be in core, I think
<ricotz> currently both libs are in libcheese-gtk, but splitting them might solve this dependency issue and not pulling clutter in
<cassidy> yeah
<cassidy> tbh, pulling Clutter is not an issue to us as it's needed by GNOME 3 anyway
<seb128> cassidy, right, the question is somewhat also to know if you consider empathy as a GNOME3 component or as an IM client you want used out of GNOME3
<seb128> either way is fine and is your decision, I'm just pointing that by adding some depends you might create issues for some of your other users
<cassidy> I consider it as a core part of GNOME 3, but I'm trying to avoid as much as possible to make life harder for others
<cassidy> so yeah, please do continue to raise such issue to me
<seb128> ok, great ;-)
<seb128> libcheese depends on clutter-gst
<cassidy> but, in this case, I think the right answer is splitting libcheese-gtk
<seb128> the non gtk lib
<cassidy> humm the new call UI will use clutter-gst as well actually
<cassidy> that's the only way to do video overlapping
<cassidy> so we will depend on clutter at some point for sure
<seb128> hum
<seb128> what does it mean for people who don't have the video drivers to use clutter?
<seb128> empathy will just bug on them?
<cassidy> the old VoIP (empathy-av) will still around for a while I think
<cassidy> so it could be used with the fallback mode probably
<seb128> ok, so maybe the solution for us is to keep using that
<cassidy> but you won't have all the new shiny features then :(
<seb128> it seems crazy that an im client requires working gl :-(
<seb128> especially with clutter
<seb128> there are still lot of users having issue with clutter and arm etc is not making that any better
<cassidy> well that's the price if we want to move forward
<RAOF> I wonder how performant llvmpipe would be as a software rasteriser for clutter.  It's apparently nearly good enough to do gnome-shell.  Although obviously not on arm.
<dpm> hey jibel, good morning. Do you know who's maintaining the ISO tracker nowadays?
<cassidy> i was afraid of that as well but it doesn't seem to bad with the shell from what I've seen
<seb128> cassidy, not sure that's "forward"
<seb128> users running an im client or skype or whatever want working im, sound and video
<seb128> they don't want clutter 3d effects
<cassidy> I'm talking about 3d effects; but if you want, say, a fullscreen mode with your preview on top, you need video overlapping
<seb128> I don't think any im client on other platforms do crazy things, you don't wait from those fancyness but reliability
<cassidy> how are you going to handle totem 3.2 btw?
<jibel> dpm, Hey, I do. anything I can help with ?
<cassidy> it will depend on clutter-gst too I think
<RAOF> You should be able to do simple overlays with just Xv, right?  Almost everything has more than one Xv port.
<seb128> cassidy, we might stay on 3.0, or at least we need to think about it
<cassidy> :(
<RAOF> You can't easily do the nice OSD effects that totem's doing, but if you just want PiP then Xv should handle it?
<seb128> cassidy, we are already hitting quite some CD space issues and clutter has a very poor reliability story on quite some hardware
<cassidy> tbh, GNOME is moving forward to Clutter. If you want to continue using it you'll have to ship it at some point
<dpm> jibel, I'm helping the kernel team to set up an ISO tracker so that they can roll out their custom ISOs, and I've got a few questions on that, do you have a minute?
<cassidy> (I'm not a clutter fanboy or anything)
<cassidy> and GNOME 3 will push clutter / 3D support forward, so I'm sure it will continue to improve
<seb128> cassidy, right, which is something we need to think about, but we don't use that many GNOME components that will require clutter
<seb128> cassidy, right, I was sort of trying to avoid getting it in before the coming lts
<seb128> we have CD space issues and will keep having those until we drop gtk2 from the CD and clutter is still not great from the feedback we got
<cassidy> seb128, the libcheese dep may stay optional for now. I don't know when the new call UI will happen (3.2 or 3.4) but for this one we'll certainly need clutter-gst
<seb128> cassidy, ok thanks, that let us some time to think about it
<seb128> well clutter and clutter-gst should be ok I guess
<cassidy> but, tbh, I think you'll have to ship clutter at some point anyway
<seb128> what made me stop with cheese is that it brings clutter-gesture and some gesture libs as well
<cassidy> a better split of libcheese would be good, for sure
<seb128> cassidy, thanks
<jibel> dpm, not now I'm on a sprint, around noon utc ?
<dpm> jibel, sounds good, let's talk later on then, thanks!
<pitti> bah, today's dailies grew by 10 MB, all oversized again :/
<seb128> pitti, is that python3?
<pitti> 2011-06-14 06:54:40     cjwatson        [00:25:30] pitti: so, live-build seems to have saved a couple of megaby
<pitti> tes, but it's obscured by (a) libegl1-mesa (b) python3.2 and (c) mono 2.10 (as warned by directhex) having eate
<pitti> n a chunk of space between them
<seb128> can we drop python2.6?
<seb128> to make it for 3.2?
<pitti> that's the plan, yes
<pitti> and I suppose libegl1-mesa is what RAOF meant with the LLVM drivers? or is that something different?
<cjwatson> when I looked last night, EGL was a bit over a megabyte, python3.2 was something like 6MB, and I assume Mono ate another 5MB or so but didn't check
<pitti> oh, doesn't seem to be the llvm bit
<didrocks> need to logout/login to test accessibility, brb
<RAOF> pitti: No; libegl1-mesa is a new dependency of cairo.
<RAOF> pitti: Mesa llvm bit is blocked on bug #790204
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 790204 in llvm-2.9 "[MIR] libllvm-2.9" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790204
<didrocks> tseliot, RAOF, bryce: is there a known issue with the new X and the nvidia driver?
<didrocks> I had to switch back to vesa here
<tseliot> didrocks: in oneiric?
<RAOF> Does the nvidia driver build against linux 3.0?
<didrocks> right
<tseliot> RAOF: yes, that's the problem
<didrocks> RAOF: didn't check, no postinst or trigger error from what I saw
<tseliot> RAOF: actually it's not supposed to even try to build the module
<didrocks> hum, we should put a breaks: then to avoid people upgrading maybe?
<ricotz> it builds after some patching
<ricotz> at least 275.x didnt try 270.x
<tseliot> didrocks: I have to update nvidia and fglrx to get them to work with anything newer than 2.6.38
<RAOF> I don't think we've done that in the past, but it might not be a bad idea.
<RAOF> The trick would be in the maintenance of the Breaks: list.
<didrocks> tseliot: do yoyu think it can be done shortly or is it better to breaks: to avoid people getting no interface on upgrade?
<tseliot> didrocks: yes, I can do it today
<didrocks> tseliot: nice, thanks :)
<didrocks> let's have a day in the fallback mode then
<didrocks> :)
<tseliot> I was going to work on it today anyway :)
<RAOF> didrocks: It doesn't fall back to vesa automatically for you?
<didrocks> RAOF: no, I got no screen
<ricotz> tseliot, the edgers-packages includes a small patch which might work for 270 too
<didrocks> RAOF: had to change xorg.conf myself
<tseliot> ricotz: ah, nice, I'll have a look at the patch and update it if necessary
<RAOF> Oh, you had an xorg.conf?  We shouldn't be writing one of those now.
<tseliot> right, Jockey doesn't even write one anymore
<didrocks> RAOF: I need one for my double screen config (written by nvidia)
<tseliot> oh
<didrocks> nvidia-settings
<tseliot> right
<RAOF> Ah.  Yes.  That will break.
<didrocks> so yeah, for those users, no safety net :)
<tseliot> no failsafe-x?
 * RAOF wonders how hard it would be for X to fallback properly there.
<didrocks> well, if there was one, I didn't get it after 2 boots
<RAOF> Harumph.
<RAOF> tseliot: Incidentally, a multiarch'd mesa that will (should!) actually build is now building in http://tinyurl.com/4xmz7oj
<tseliot> RAOF: excellent! Thanks a lot
 * tseliot -> lunch
<didrocks> TheMuso: is orca currently working in oneiric? I can activate it (and hear the voice), but any GNOME application started even after the activation doesn't seem to integrate
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, do you have libgnome-3-common and libatk-adaptor installed?
<chrisccoulson> i hit a similar issue yesterday, and needed to install those :)
<chrisccoulson> urgh
<chrisccoulson> libgail-3-common, even ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: indeed, none of those are installed! seems a missing dep then? Installing now, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, TheMuso is aware of that already
<didrocks> ok, nice :)
<didrocks> ah, nice, working even without restarting any app
<didrocks> thanks a lot chrisccoulson! :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti, we're pretty close to dropping xulrunner from the archive now - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-mozilla-rapid-release-maintenance ;)
<cjwatson> fta: I think I found my problem with xvfb-run; the X server gets confused if run under fakeroot
<cjwatson> so 'env -u LD_PRELOAD xvfb-run ...' seems to improve matters
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, you regularly run a11y support?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, not normally. i just wanted to test something yesterday
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, nice coincidence then! Thanks again :)
<seb128> seems like some desktopers were working yesterday ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: it seems those guys were missing having a royal wedding or something like that :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> you can have our royal family if you like ;)
<RAOF> seb128: What are we going to do about cairo/gl?  Do you have any plans?
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: isn't the gnome-icon-theme, unity issue fixed?
<seb128> RAOF, no plan, I just told bryce that we were going to run the gl backend off for natty to fix nvidia and that we would turn it on again which is what we did
<didrocks> seb128: there is no debugging about why it doesn't load even if the Humanity theme is loaded for some
<seb128> RAOF, if nothing happens this cycle I guess we will have the same discussion about turning gl off again at beta time
<didrocks> seb128: there is a fix unity upstream last Thursday which was the day planned for the dx SRU which didn't come
<didrocks> I think I won't wait for the SRU and just cherry-pick the fix for now
<seb128> didrocks, well seems that gnome-icon-theme should be fixed anyway which is why i included pitti in the ping
<didrocks> seb128: hum, it should get the icon, right
<didrocks> and not relying on Humanity to have it
<seb128> well the icon should be in the standard binary
<seb128> right
<didrocks> so either way, I can fix it today or wait for pitti :)
<seb128> well, pitti should fix the icon theme split and dx should roll a tarball for the sru with the fix
<seb128> oneiric can get an unity update when they roll it
<seb128> njpatel, how is the coming SRU going? ;-)
<didrocks> let's see, anyway, you will be in charge of it as I won't be there this week
<didrocks> I'm sure you will love chasing people for test cases :-)
<seb128> lol
<mterry> ricotz, yes, it's possible to have bamf2/bamf3 installed in parallel
 * didrocks tests rebooting on the older kernel
<didrocks> brb
<rodrigo_> ok, lunch time, bbl
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: sorry, what icon is missing? or what package is crashing?
<didrocks> pitti: unity is crashing
<didrocks> for the icon, one sec
<didrocks> pitti: text-x-preview
<seb128> pitti, bug #794556
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 794556 in unity "Unable to load icon text-x-preview at size 48 in a loop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794556
<pitti> thanks; hm, I wonder why I don't get a crash
<pitti> ah, I apparently installed g-i-t-full last week for testing something else, and forgot to purge
<didrocks> pitti: do you force the Humanity icon theme?
<pitti> restarting my session
<didrocks> oh ok :)
<pitti> didrocks: "foroce"?
<pitti> "force"
<didrocks> pitti: Humanity seems to have it, but if you select a different theme which doesn't inherit from it, you don't get this icon
<pitti> didrocks: ah, how do you select the theme?
<pitti> didrocks: that's why gnome-tweak-tool has a dependency to gnome-icon-theme-full
<jibel> dpm, ping
<seb128> pitti, the issue seems to be that if g-s-d has any issue and goes down you get screwed
<didrocks> pitti: maybe that comes from migration? I don't know, but people seems to trigger it after the default upgrade experience
<pitti> ah, I see
<didrocks> oh yeah, g-s-d crashing of course!
<pitti> so the question is, does that really only affect this one icon, or isn't it just going to crash on the next missing one
<pitti> in the latter case, it would basically mean "we need to ship the full g-i-t anyway", and add back the 5.8 MB
<seb128> pitti, which is somewhat an unity issue (and they have it fix commited)
<didrocks> pitti: no, this is the fallback icon
<pitti> moving one icon to g-i-t is not a problem at all, of course
<didrocks> pitti: but there was no protection in unity and we try to load the fallback icon with the same function
<dpm> jibel, pong. Want to do a quick 5-10 min mumble?
<didrocks> pitti: so, the fallback icon not being there, it tried to look for the fallback icon again :)
 * pitti scratches head about "The icon theme is set to ubuntu-mono-dark, and indeed the ubuntu-mono package does not have a text-x-preview icon; however, switching to an icon theme where this is present, like Humanity, does not resolve the issue."
<pitti> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/index.theme has Inherits=Humanity,gnome,hicolor, so it should use humanity's
<didrocks> pitti: right, and I tried to ping ev about it, but he didn't have time to debug
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: seems like it's down to an unity fix commited bug
<seb128> then we can try to debug other issues if any remains
<didrocks> seb128: well, the unity fixes just fixes the "don't go in a dead loop if we don't find the fallback icon"
<Daviey> Hmm, is GDM poorly for anyone else atm?
<pitti> so want me to move the icon?
<ricotz> mterry, that would be nice -- i thought that bamfdaemon would be linked against either libbamf0 or libbamf3 which make it difficult -- is there a package yet?
<seb128> Daviey, you mean? no background or theme?
<Daviey> seb128: no starty :/
<Daviey> http://pb.daviey.com/K02M/raw/
<seb128> dunno, we switched to lightdm recently which I'm using
<didrocks> pitti: I would say so, anyway. I'll have a tomboy note to check that if we don't find an icon, the Humanity fallback icon is taken
 * Daviey swithces
<mterry> ricotz, no, I don't think there's an upstream release yet.  Let me check how bamfdaemon was handled.  I believe it is just linked against libbamf3 and that's it.  But that doesn't prevent libbamf0 from being around
<pitti> Daviey: uh, X.org crashing?
<didrocks> I'm not sure how ev choosed the Humanity/ubuntu-mono theme with GNOME3, hence I want to wait a little on debugging
<seb128> Daviey, using nvidia? didrocks had issue with nvidia today
<ricotz> mterry, i think the packaging has binary depends
<Daviey> seb128: yup!
<Daviey> pitti: yes
<didrocks> Daviey: restart on the older kernel
<didrocks> do you have a xorg.conf?
<Daviey> didrocks: I believe i do
<Daviey> Will try an older kernel
<didrocks> Daviey: yeah, so either switch to vesa and restart gdm and restart on an older kernel
<ricotz> mterry, but perhaps this can be relaxed
<Daviey> didrocks: thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<mterry> ricotz, well, bamfdaemon would just link against libbamf3 and that's that.  But libbamf0 can still be on the system and useful.  It can still talk over dbus to a bamfdaemon written in scheme or qt or whatever
<ricotz> mterry, right
<pitti> didrocks: fix uploaded; thanks!
<Daviey> didrocks: Did you see a bug tracking this nvidia issue with linux-3.0 ?
<didrocks> pitti: thanks to you :)
<didrocks> Daviey: no, tseliot told that he would work on this today
<Daviey> super! thanks.
<tseliot> :)
<ricotz> mterry, libbamf0 binary-depends on bamfdaemon which breaks a parallel install, so the dependency needs to be switched first to make bamfdaemon depend on libbamf0 -- not sure why it is done this way
<mterry> ricotz, I don't see the problem.  libbamf0 x.x and libbamf-3-0 x.x will both depend on bamfdaemon x.x.  Shouldn't be a conflict
<ricotz> mterry, the packaging contains "bamfdaemon (= ${binary:Version})" in libbamf0
<mterry> ricotz, agreed.  Is there some ramification I'm missing of that?  Sorry for being dense
<ricotz> didrocks, hi, is there a reason for doing it this way ^
<mterry> ricotz, oh...  are you thinking bamf3 and bamf0 would be different source packages?  They'll be built from the same source
<seb128> pitti, shouldn't you update the replaces: version if you move icons between binaries?
<ricotz> mterry, without switching the deps, you can leave libbamf0 installed -- or should the bamf package build both flavours
<didrocks> ricotz: the library needs the daemon
<pitti> seb128: Replaces: gnome-icon-theme-full (<< ${binary:Version})
<didrocks> so libbamf0 and libbamf3 needs to dep on the daemon
<pitti> seb128:  :)
<didrocks> nothing to change
<mterry> ricotz, right, it will build both flavors
<seb128> pitti, ok, I was too lazy to do a checkout, I just read the changelog ;-)
<seb128> pitti, in the previous upload you mentioned updating the replaces so I was checking ;-)
 * didrocks really on a break now :)
<pitti> seb128: right, originally I only had them one way around, there I did them in the opposite direction as well; now we can freely move them around without further Replaces: updates
<seb128> pitti, ok, makes sense ;-)
<ricotz> mterry, ok, so there is no need to make some fixing first if libbamf0 will be replaced
<tseliot> pitti: we don't support dist-upgrades from non-consecutive releases, right? If so, I'll remove the transitional packages in nvidia
<mterry> ricotz, replaced by what?  It's not going away.  gtk2 apps will still want to use bamf
<ricotz> mterry, i mean by a newer version ;)
<mterry> ricotz, :) ah.  no, shouldn't be a problem
<didrocks> ricotz: so, there is nothing wrong with the dep on the daemon
<seb128> tseliot, we support lts to lts and any version to the next one
<tseliot> seb128: ok, it should be fine to remove the transitional packages then
<ricotz> didrocks, seems fine since the lib depends on the running dbus service
<didrocks> ricotz: yeah, that was the intend :)
<ricotz> just looked a bit weird ;)
<didrocks> why weird? it's really a dep on the lib to work :)
<cyphermox> good morning
<njpatel> seb128, didrocks we can do SRU tomorrow?
<didrocks> njpatel: FYI, I'm not there until EOW
<njpatel> at least for nux/unity
<seb128> njpatel, didrocks is only there today but I guess I can try to cover for him
<didrocks> so deal that with seb128 if he has time to do it
<njpatel> didrocks, so, wrt, should i wait for you or do it with seb128?
<njpatel> right, okay, let's try tomorrow but no biggie
<seb128> njpatel, I think I should be able to handle an unity update ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: don't break my branches :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, let's talk about that ;-)
<kenvandine> njpatel, nice work on the tabbar :)
<njpatel> kenvandine, heh, thanks, going to pull out more stuff into sub-classes of TabBarItem tonight
<njpatel> basically so we don't need that info in the stream view, allowing for a bit more flexibility in the way we present things
<kenvandine> cool, i merged what you have
<njpatel> kenvandine, had a question, though. Is it the "gwibber thing" to always have the text box visible, or could we hide it behind a button?
<kenvandine> gwibber thing?
<kenvandine> you mean preferred?
<njpatel> kenvandine, like, is that one of the things people like, i mean
<njpatel> kenvandine, yeah, sorry :)
<kenvandine> when i tried to hide it by default some people said it wasn't discoverable
<kenvandine> i kind of like it hidden though
<njpatel> kenvandine, was it behind a button or behind the checkbox option inthe menu?
<kenvandine> button
<njpatel> wow, I must have missed that revision :)
<kenvandine> it never made it to trunk
<kenvandine> ryan was one of the people that didn't like it
<kenvandine> however, a nice compromise would be a single line entry that expanded automatically
<njpatel> okay, I'll play around a bit, though I think hiding it behind a button makes sleeker
<njpatel> indeed
<kenvandine> i was thinking single line entry with no account icons
<kenvandine> and when the entry got focus, expand it to show the icons or some way to enable/disable
<njpatel> right
<kenvandine> but i am ok with a button too
<njpatel> cool, I'll play around a bit and see what feels right, will push a few branches if nothing else so you can test
<kenvandine> awesome
<kenvandine> njpatel, seems all the tile resizing issues are fixed too, thx!
<njpatel> yep, that should be better, though need to fix the calculation a bit so we always fill in the last space
<njpatel> though that shouldn't be too hard to do
<didrocks> logout/login. brb
<seb128> rodrigo_, could you check on bug #788710?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 788710 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788710
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<kinouchou> ello didrocks, seb128 and fredp
<didrocks> hey kinouchou
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<hrw> hi
<hrw> how many of users are expected to use empathy with sip? 2% or less?
<pitti> sip == â¥!
<hrw> bug 797228
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797228 in empathy "Lack of SIP support after installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797228
<hrw> pitti: SIP in empathy != â¥! rather
<hrw> it takes time to find out which package you need to install to get it working
<pitti> hrw: sofiasip? yes, it's not installed by default
<hrw> and I wonder how many users are able to find it
<cyphermox> seb128: mclasen: just tried 2.28.9 to make sure the issue with g_hash_table_foreach in nm-applet wasn't fixed, but no cake. the problem is, even compiling with --disable-debug as IIUC would disable the new checks for hash tables doesn't work
<seb128> cyphermox, 2.29.8 you mean?
<mclasen> cyphermox: a testcase is needed to make this a glib issue
<cyphermox> right :)
<bcurtiswx> hi
<jibel> rodrigo_, ls -l /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/ pasted, do you need something else ?
<bcurtiswx> empathy 3.1.2 has a couple new features empathy-call (new call handler) which would require telepathy-farstream.  tp-logger supports calls now, which requires it to be built with call support.  empathy can now use libcheese (and your webcam) to create your avatar.  Do we want to ship empathy with those features?
<rodrigo_> jibel, ok, looking
<rodrigo_> jibel, hmm, can you please check which package does the gtk-modules belong to (dpkg -S /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/gtk-modules) and what is in there?
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting in 5 mins
<tkamppeter> hi
<jibel> rodrigo_, libatk-adaptor
<mterry> w00t
<rodrigo_> jibel, hmm
<kenvandine> woot
<cyphermox> ok
<rodrigo_> jibel, can you please remove the package and see if you can replicate the bug without it?
 * pedro_ waves
<rodrigo_> pitti, almost ready :-)
<pedro_> is the calendar showing the meeting at 16:30 utc for anybody else?
<pedro_> calendar = fridge
<seb128> can't say, I'm not using the fridge
<charlie-tca1> pedro_: desktop team? yes, 16:30 UTC
<seb128> it's 15:30utc
<bcurtiswx> isn't it 15:30 UTC
<seb128> it shifted with DST to stay on the same european, us time
<pedro_> http://ubuntu-news.org/calendars/ <-
<jibel> rodrigo_, it is not its fault. hggdh get the same crash without this package installed
<seb128> the fridge didn't get updated I guess
<pedro_> its saying 16:30 UTC, i'll contact the fridge folks to update it
<seb128> jibel, when did that start?
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<jibel> rodrigo_, lets continue after the meeting
<rodrigo_> pedro_, yes, for me it shows it one hour late also
<jibel> seb128, something like 2 weeks ago
<seb128> ok, so not the recent gconf thing rodrigo fixes
<seb128> es->ed
<pitti> DING DING DING
<seb128> hey!
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-06-14
<pitti> welcome everyone
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting now
<cyphermox> o/
<rodrigo_> o/
<didrocks> hey
<mterry> \o
<chrisccoulson> \o
<kenvandine> \o
<pedro_> o/
<Sweetshark> o/
<pitti> hm, nobody on the southern hemisphere doing /o ?
<rodrigo_> :)
<bcurtiswx> blame the volcano..
<Sweetshark> at least no germans lifting the right arm.
<tremolux> heyo
<pitti> so, let's dive in with the partner update
<kenvandine> woot
<pitti> kenvandine, anything of news?
<kenvandine> from dx all i have is gtk2shim thing we talked about last week, it is landing this week
<pitti> oh, nice!
<pitti> to recap, that'll make GTK 3 themes work with GTK2
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> not the existing GTK2 theme with GTK3, right?
<mterry> We have a GTK 3 theme?
<pitti> that would have been my next q :)
<kenvandine> mterry, no... don't get seb128 going :)
<seb128> no we don't
<mterry> :)
<seb128> grrrrrrrr
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<pitti> kenvandine: how do they test that then, with adwaita?
<kenvandine> moving onto U1
<kenvandine> pitti, don't know... i'll find out thursday :)
<seb128> pitti, dx...testing... no, those don't fit ;-)
<kenvandine> U1 is working on this new shim thing that will pull U1 from a ppa, supposedly all of this was agreed to with the release team at UDS
<kenvandine> seb128, lol
<pitti> kenvandine: for stables? not... exactly
<kenvandine> yes... i have asked them to double check everyone is OK with it
<kenvandine> i wish i had been in that session
<pitti> we discussed ways how to do intrusive U1 SRUs for stables, with new libraries (in private paths, etc.)
<pitti> the "external PPA" option came up, but that won't work for shipping anything you like, as you would break other desktop stuff just the same way
<pitti> except that a lot fewer people would actually test it
<kenvandine> pitti, right, that was what freaked me out
<kenvandine> they said Chipaca is circling back with the rt to confirm everyone is happy
<kenvandine> so i assume plans will change
<pitti> so we discarded that option
<pitti> and said that the best course would be to bundle new libraries if they are required, and provide their own translations (at least temporary) in the .deb if they want to introduce new strings, until the langpacks catch up
<kenvandine> pitti, i'll make sure everyone is happy with whatever solution they end up with before it gets uploaded
<pitti> I don't see what a separate PPA woudl actually achieve, aside from circumventing our SRU/QA processes
<kenvandine> pitti, right... :/
<kenvandine> that is all i have
<pitti> kenvandine: if you can follow up with them again, that'd be appreciated; they certainly shouldn't waste work on implementing such a "enable PPA" feature in the GUI
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks! would you mind adding this to the wiki?
<kenvandine> pitti, yeah... i got stuck in the pile of people with edit locks :)
<pitti> kenvandine: thanks
<pitti> didrocks: nice progress on unity! anything to discuss there, or with Qt?
<didrocks> not really, I expect having a lot more info at the Qt contributor summit this week (so, don't expect me very online while travelling, from tomorrow until Saturday evening)
<didrocks> really happy that the Qt bug is now workarounded and that Nokia people will work on it :)
<didrocks> also, I didn't note on the wiki but we just released a new unity-2d
<didrocks> (and I adapted my unify tool to unity-2d)
<didrocks> that's it from me, all is written in the wiki
<pitti> merci beaucoup
<didrocks> if there is an unity SRU coming this week, seb128 will handle it
<didrocks> mais de rien :)
<pitti> tremolux: anything to discuss for s-c?
<pitti> any news wrt. the qt and/or gtk3 ports?
<pitti> or will we keep the gtk2 one for oneiric?
<tremolux> I think we will still try for gtk3, but there is uncertainty because of the upcoming design changes
<tremolux> but I don't want to rule it out
<pitti> nice progress on desktop-o-software-center-ui!
<tremolux> it may actually make it easier, depending on how much we actually need to reimplement
<tremolux> ah, thx :)
<pitti> ok, makes sense
<pitti> thanks!
<tremolux> sorry I can't be more conclusive at this point
<pitti> no problem
<pitti> so, some ramblings from me
<pitti> first, CD space
<pitti> we changed to live-builder, which actually won us some 5 MB
<pitti> sad thing is that python3.2, the new mono, and libegl-mesa ate it all up, plus added some extra 10 MB, so that we are again oversized
<pitti> I'd welcome some help with figuring out what changed in mono
<pitti> python3.2 is "known", and the plan is to compensate it by dropping py 2.6 support from python-* packages
<pitti> libegl-mesa is also "known", although of course it would be nice to not have both egl and gl on the CD, but that might not be realistic
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ^ bad news for TB, I guess :/
<achiang> tedg: ping, #691953 doesn't seem to have been fixed properly
<didrocks> probably a stupid idea, but do we avoid already shipping in the live the *.pyc file? Would that win a little?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah :/
 * mterry needs to get deja-dup on the CD before all space savings are spoken for
<seb128> we might need to get clutter on the CD as well
<seb128> oh and accountsservice when the mir is approved
<pitti> didrocks: it would probably do, yes; do we actually have them there?
<didrocks> pitti: not sure, I just synced the iso, just need to start it to check
<pitti> grep '\.pyc' /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list
<pitti> the only hit is libglib2.0-dev.list, for gdbus-codegen
<pitti> which looks like a bug
<didrocks> pitti: will try and if there, will estimate the size
<pitti> didrocks: merci
<didrocks> hum, they aren't listed as it's in a trigger anyway
<pitti> didrocks: it might be done at postinst time?
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> it is yes
<pitti> didrocks: right; I meant, if they would be shipped in the .debs, we can't just rm them; but like that we could
<rodrigo_> accountsservice is small, afaik, but yes, will take up some space
<didrocks> will check :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: 67 kB, trivial,
<seb128> clutter isn't trivial
<pitti> *nod* :/
<pitti> yay more libraries
<pitti> but if we actually drop tomboy, then we could also drop gbrainy
<pitti> and clutter, TB, and llvm (which we didn't even add yet) would fit
<pitti> due to dropping mono
<seb128> pitti, well that doesn't get ride of mono if we don't switch back to rhythmbox
<tedg> achiang, What does it do?
<seb128> we are in a meeting guys, can you move to ayatana? ;-)
<achiang> oh, sorry
<tedg> Oh, sorry
<pitti> seb128: ah, I keep forgetting about banshee, right
<pitti> anyway, this was mostly an FYI; if someone wants to look into the mono growth, you earned yourself a beer at the sprint :)
<pitti> should be some 5 MB
<pitti> so, over to work items
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-2.html doesn't look too happy
<pitti> desktop-o-default-email-client didn't make any progress so far
<pitti> chrisccoulson: is that just a matter of updating the WIs, or is this stuck upstream, or stuck at us getting space for it?
<pitti> although the UI design/new features certainly aren't blocked
<mterry> pitti, how come some beta-1 tasks show in that list?
 * pitti will parallelize independent specs a bit to speed up the meeting, let's try that
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i've been pretty busy with other stuff atm (like firefox 5 and dropping xulrunner)
<pitti> kenvandine: desktop-o-gwibber-gtk3 also is at 0% still; does this need postponing?
<kenvandine> i need to update it
<kenvandine> it is progressing very nicely
<seb128> mterry, like?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: understood
<chrisccoulson> pitti - some of those can be closed off fairly quickly though
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm just asking because a lot of the WIs aren't actually your's
<mterry> seb128, "Do an accessibility sweep" for deja-dup
<mterry> I must have specified the beta badly in the blueprinmt
<chrisccoulson> ie, i already have a fairly good idea on what to do with lightning now
<chrisccoulson> i have a pretty good idea about how we're handling extension upgrades too
<pitti> mterry: that's because it's not oneiric-beta-1, but ubuntu-11.10-beta-1
<chrisccoulson> that seems to be the bulk of mine
<mterry> ugg, thanks pitti
<seb128> mterry, the blueprint milestone is alpha2 too
<pitti> mterry: and it doesn't try to recognize unknown milestones, it just adds them to the default spec milestone (which is a2)
<seb128> pitti, can you have items after the spec milestone?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<pitti> the spec milestone is just the default
<seb128> ok, great ;-)
<pitti> but you need to spel it crrorectyl :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, thanks; so it seems a whole lot of them will be closed in one go :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. there seems like a lot, but there's not much work in most of those
 * pitti feels a bit relieved :)
<pitti> mterry: desktop-o-deja-dup-default is the third-biggest
<mterry> pitti, blocked on MIR
<pitti> but we just covered that
<mterry> didrocks, got MIR cycles?
<pitti> i. e. some WIs aren't for a2
<mterry> that too
<pitti> so the remaining ones are trivial, once the MIRs get approved
<pitti> so that's all fine
<didrocks> mterry: not really, already have done a lot recently, and I won't be there until eow, after, it should be ok :)
<mterry> didrocks, np, I'll bug doko
<seb128> speaking about mir, rodrigo_ how is the accountsservice one going? it's blocking the gdm update
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-accessibility-ubiquity is a huge one, but should be handled in the Eastern edition
<pitti> TheMuso: ^
<rodrigo_> seb128, got part of it done, will finish it today or tomorrow, I hope
<pitti> a-s needs some code fixes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok thanks, feel free to update the bug with upstream bug numbers if you get some
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and reassign me to it, please :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, will do
<didrocks> thanks
<pitti> and finally, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-libreoffice-packaging is still at 0% as well
<pitti> Sweetshark: ^ is this blocked on an actual upstream release of 3.4.0/3.3.3?
<Sweetshark> yes, actually some of the packaging is already ongoing, but there wont be release before debian.
<Sweetshark> it seems like 3.4.0 will soon see a debian release (I saw a changelog entry commit today)
<pitti> Sweetshark: do you think it's realistic for a2 (i. e. by start of July), or sohuld we move it?
<Sweetshark> 3.3.3 isnt released yet upstream, but hasnt seen much activity since 3.3.2 (for LO that is), so should not be too problematic.
<Sweetshark> we will have some 3.4.0 and 3.3.3 release by start of July.
<pitti> ok, thanks for the heads-up
<pitti> that's it from me
<seb128> will 3.4 stop using gnome-vfs in that -gnome binary? ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I've some topics I would like to discuss
<pitti> seb128: go ahead
<seb128> first, indicator on GTK3
<seb128> is that moving?
<seb128> out of creating issues like that gtk2, gtk3 mixed symbols bug you reassigned today that's something we should start landing and testing
<seb128> kenvandine, mterry:^ where do we stand?
<seb128> can we distro patch mterry's work and dual build even if dx is behind?
<mterry> Most indicators are ported (datetime is only exception I can remember)
<mterry> They don't have upstream releases yet
<mterry> So thus aren't packaged
<seb128> do we need some? if we do what is blocking them?
<kenvandine> seb128, perhaps
<seb128> kenvandine, I will not take perhaps as an answer :p
<kenvandine> seb128, we should be getting releases for some of them this thursday
<kenvandine> so depending on what doesn't get released, i'll look at distro patching
<mterry> seb128, we can distro patch anything!  :)
<kenvandine> and talk to ted about those
<kenvandine> mterry, yeah, that is what we do!
<Sweetshark> seb128: I will check for that gnome-vfs stuff when I get around to it.
<kenvandine> :-D
<seb128> kenvandine, it doesn't need to be you doing the work
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<mterry> I'm actively working on datetime, but it's a bit more involved
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll figure out what is left standing after thursdays uploads
<seb128> mterry, right, I wouldn't stop on dx, they have their schedule and don't care much about oneiric
<mterry> Needs a new widget from GTK 3.1.4 which just got into oneiric
<seb128> we might still be sitting there in a month if we wait on them
<seb128> kenvandine, ok, thanks
<seb128> let's wait on thursday and start distro patching after that
<kenvandine> seb128, tedg's goal is to have them all in oneiric with gtk3 builds by the sprint
<seb128> mterry, ^ works for you?
<seb128> kenvandine, great
 * kenvandine is going to install oneiric on tedg's laptop when he isn't looking in dublin
<mterry> seb128, in terms of finishing datetime?  sure
<kenvandine> someone buy him beer to distract him
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mterry, well, no need to finish, but starting to land the dual build libs, etc in the next week
<seb128> ok
<seb128> that was my topic1
<seb128> on a side note I just uploaded gtk+ 3.1.6 in the ubuntu-desktop ppa if somebody needs it
<seb128> there is some theming issue, gnome-standard-themes need to be updated with it, I will start testing that soon
<pitti> seb128: the theming issue is introduced in 3.1.6, not in 3.1.4 yet?
<pitti> (i. e. that's why ppa, not oneiric?)
 * tedg has never been happier to not like beer... and starts researching BIOS locking in EFI.
<seb128> there is some new deprecations in that version
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> i.e GtkHBox GtkVBox got deprecated in favor of GtkBox
<kenvandine> tedg, ;-D
<seb128> I will send an email to the list about those
<seb128> glib deprecated G_CONST_RETURN as well
<seb128> (you should just use "const" instead)
<kenvandine> seb128, did you update the ~ubuntu-desktop branch for gtk3?
<seb128> kenvandine, not pushed yet, I'm still working on it
<seb128> kenvandine, but after the end of the meeting I will do it
<kenvandine> ok, i did push that patch cimi wanted there right?
<seb128> I did delete it
<seb128> it's in the new version
<kenvandine> ok
<seb128> I told you to not bother :p
<seb128> anyway
<kenvandine> i was just wanting to check that :)
<seb128> topic 3
<kenvandine> seb128, yeah... he really wanted it
<seb128> cheese won dependency on clutter, clutter-gst, clutter-gesture, mx
<seb128> totem git switched from gst to clutter-gst for its video rendering
<seb128> so we will need to figure how well clutter-gst works for us
<seb128> and to make space on the CD for those
<seb128> that's just an note so people know about it and can raise concern if they have any
<seb128> we should probably figure how to test how well that stack work for i.e video rendering on the platform and video drivers we support
<kenvandine> seb128, i thought cheese got removed from the CD?
<kenvandine> seb128, empathy can now use libcheese to take avatar photos
<seb128> kenvandine, ubiquity will bring it back in, they plan to use libcheese-gtk to get your picture
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> empathy as well
<kenvandine> so i guess we can enable that :)
<seb128> they plan to use libcheese also for camera detection and maybe some other things
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx and i were just discussing that
<seb128> well, I'm still not sold on bringing clutter on the CD :p
<seb128> but yeah we will likely need it
<kenvandine> hehe
<pitti> libcheese itself is tiny
<pitti> but clutter is rather big
<kenvandine> i hope libcheese doesn't suck in clutter
<seb128> it does
<kenvandine> sigh
<seb128> it brings in libclutter-gst and libclutter
<pitti> will the next cheese introduce a clutter dependency to libcheese-gtk18 itself, or "just" to the apps?
<seb128> pitti, the lib
<pitti> ok, just answered
<kenvandine> pitti, fun times...
<seb128> indeed :-(
<kenvandine> poor chrisccoulson
<seb128> ok
<seb128> another sort of items
<pitti> poor CDs
<kenvandine> the universe is fighting against TB
<rodrigo_> :)
<pitti> we never ever drop libraries, it seems :/
<hrw> bye
<seb128> I suggested to drop tomboy out of the CD at least until it's ported to recent apis
<pitti> +1
<rodrigo_> how much space that would save?
<seb128> it's the only thing keeping libgnome libgnomeui libbonobo libbonoboui libgnomevancas on the CD
<seb128> rodrigo_, like 1mb, but it would allow to drop that stack of old libraries from the CD
<seb128> which is my main driver right now
<seb128> it's easy to reinstall and users upgrading will still get it
<rodrigo_> ok, not much, but yes, we should get rid of those libs
<seb128> we can bring it back later if it switches to gsettings
<pitti> it also uses the libndesk-dbus stuff which banshee doesn't, so perhaps more
<seb128> but seeing that we have no binding near to land for that
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let's make it a team meeting decision?
<seb128> is somebody against dropping tomboy from the CD for now?
<kenvandine> +1
<seb128> I will email the lists about it
<rodrigo_> not me
<pitti> and banshee, while we are at it *cough*
<dobey> pitti: +1
<pitti> no, let's discuss that more thoroughly
<seb128> pitti, well, once we are there we can argue switching back to rhythmbox to claim the mono space
<seb128> rb is already on GTK3 as well which is another win ;-)
<pitti> it's got the same problem, not ported to gtk3 etc.
<seb128> but yeah, another topic
<pitti> which rb is
<pitti> right
<pitti> we can also announce it well
<seb128> ok, nobody objected for tomboy
<dobey> then fixing libu1 will be an easier task for me :)
<pitti> "the default music player is now much faster to start, and uses less RAM"
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> that was it from me
<seb128> sorry for all the extra topics
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone! I need to run out now, bbl
<pitti> seb128: no worries, thanks for covering them
<seb128> thanks
<tremolux> good day all!
<ricotz> what is up with transmission which would need a new libevent
<didrocks> thanks everyone :)
<seb128> ricotz, if you figure tell us, I've been trying to ping kklimonda^ about it from some weeks but didn't get a reply
<ricotz> seb128, i made a new sync request and saw the expired old one later
<ricotz> it seems he built the stack in a ppa which worked quite well except 4 packages
<ricotz> so just syncing it in this early stage might be worth it and figure out the res
<ricotz> t
<ricotz> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libevent/+bug/701471
<seb128> ricotz, right, I didn't follow on the libevent transition, I just know if was late previous cycle to do it
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 701471 in libevent "Sync libevent 2.0.10 from Debian experimental" [Wishlist,Expired]
<ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libevent/+bug/796187
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 796187 in libevent "Sync libevent 2.0.10-stable-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> that's probably a topic for the ubuntu-devel list though
<ricotz> seb128, and this doesnt look that bad: https://launchpad.net/~kklimonda/+archive/libevent2
<seb128> well I still would like to check with kklimonda^
<ricotz> yeah, sure
<kklimonda^> ricotz, seb128: libevent transition should be pretty safe, at least for main packages - I think other than transmission only memcached uses it, and it has been tested "in the wild". Unfortunately, as seb128 has noticed I'm recently not a very reliable person to work with - too much things happening left me with no room to work on "random" stuff.
<seb128> kklimonda^, ricotz: could one of you drop an email to ubuntu-devel maybe about that? just to know if somebody has an issue doing the update
<seb128> do you know if Debian plans to land it to unstable?
<seb128> why is it still in experimental?
<kklimonda^> seb128: they didn't finish the transition, three packages FTBFS (or they did when I tried rebuilding them before natty release). I know that debian maintainer has been interested in doing the transition too, I guess it's a problem of not enough hands to do that.
<seb128> kklimonda^, ok
<seb128> kenvandine, gtk3 update pushed to the vcs but not uploaded yet
<rodrigo_> ok, going out for a bit, later all
<achiang> seb128: i'm looking for pointers on how to modify the help displayed by yelp; do you have any pointers? specifically, i want to add a new link to a PDF on disk...
<seb128> achiang, no I don't sorry, I didn't look much at the new format, maybe try emailing robert_ancell about it?
<achiang> seb128: ok, thanks. i will email robert_ancell (i only asked since i saw your name in the changelog, but i guess that was pretty minor)
<achiang> seb128: ps, i'm hacking on a lucid branch, not anything recent
<seb128> achiang, the startpage layout was an ubuntu patch back then
<micahg> achiang: j1mc might be able to help with that, he's a docs guy
<achiang> seb128: got it
<seb128> ok
<achiang> micahg: good tip, any clue where he might hang out?
<seb128> kenvandine, do you need the new gtk in oneiric for anything? I think it's ready for upload but I will run it for a bit still before uploading
<micahg> seb128: would it be possible to drop the gnome-panel recommends from alacarte? it's pulling in a lot of GNOME stuff in xubuntu, debian 603013 partially addresses this
<ubot2> Debian bug 603013 in alacarte "alacarte: spurious dependency on gnome-menus" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/603013
<micahg> achiang: maybe #ubuntu-docs?
<achiang> micahg: duh. :) thanks
<seb128> micahg,
<seb128>   * Reintroduce gnome-panel recommendation, itâs actually needed for
<seb128>     gnome-desktop-item-edit. Closes: #592639.
<seb128> in the changelog
<seb128> debian bug #592639.
<ubot2> Debian bug 592639 in alacarte "alacarte: IImpossible to open Properties dialogue of any entry, or new menu, new entry." [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/592639
<seb128> micahg, seems like the recommends is right, should almost be a depends?
<seb128> micahg, seed gmenu-simple-editor and drop alacarte from xubuntu I guess?
<micahg> seb128: shouldn't the depends/recommends be the other way then gnome-panel recommends/depends alacarte?
<seb128> ?
<seb128> micahg, the alacarte buttons are calling a gnome-panel binary
<micahg> gnome-desktop-item-edit is in gnome-panel, not alacarte
<seb128> so alacarte depends on gnome-panel because it needs that binary
<micahg> oh :(
<seb128> right
<micahg> seb128: ok, thanks for the recommendation, I'll propose that instead
<seb128> you're welcome
<micahg> seb128: I can't find that package, do we not have it?
<seb128> it's a gnome-menus binary
<micahg> ah, ok, small and minimal depends
<micahg> is there a plan to update the rhythmbox u1 store?  it seems to be blocking the upgrade of RB on oneiric
<kenvandine> seb128, i think just for the scrollbars
<seb128> micahg, uninstall u1
<seb128> dobey said they don't want to deal with having 2 versions of gtk so they are staying on the same one as the default player which is still on gtk2 where rb is on gtk3
<micahg> seb128: so, shouldn't the package be dropped from the archive then?
<dobey> we will update the u1 store
<micahg> or are you waiting on the to see what happens re cd spce
<dobey> banshee upstream is committed to moving to gtk3, but i don't know what the status is right now
<seb128> dobey, it's likely that we will have both on different gtk version by oneiric
<dobey> but i'm happy to swtich back to rb as default :)
<seb128> dobey, you should have 2 version of libuntuone
<seb128> one for gtk2 and one for gtk3
<seb128> or dual build the lib or something
<dobey> the lib should compile on both already, afaik. i don't know of anything specifically that wouldn't work. but it's still very early and i'd rather avoid doing a lot of work for something and throwing it away in a month
<seb128> well dual building a lib is like an hour work
<seb128> it's not a lot of work ;-)
<seb128> but fair enough, you can do that in a month if still required
<dobey> well if you guys make the decision to drop banshee for rb, and get rid of mono from the CD, then it would also be wasted work :)
<seb128> cyphermox, oh, well done on the n-m bug ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: meh
<cyphermox> took far too long
<cyphermox> plus I looked at the piece of code they changed at least twice, thinking it could be the issue, but the logic seemed sound :P
<cyphermox> anyway, thanks.
<cyphermox> I'm testing it now, seems to work, so I'll upload in a minute
<pitti> good night everyone!
<tremolux> 'night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<chrisccoulson> does "apt-get upgrade" pull in new recommeds?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 797051 - someone without translations after upgrading :(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797051 in firefox "firefox no longer localised after enabling -proposed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797051
<lifeless> bryce: your wish is my screen-grab https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/785497
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 785497 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "remnants of window getting left behind when apps quit" [Undecided,New]
<bryce> lifeless, bit more background in the description couldn't hurt.  when's it occur, how repeatable, when did it start, etc. etc.
<bryce> what stuff have you tested so far, etc.
<lifeless> bryce: I can't trigger it, it just happens
<bryce> lifeless, 100% of the time?
<lifeless> bryce: no
<lifeless> sporadic
<bryce> lifeless, anything else you can provide?  bug's non-actionable right now I'm afraid
<lifeless> more screenshots ?
<bryce> sure
<lifeless> there -may- be a correlation with uxterm
<lifeless> I haven't been terribly rigorous with my data gathering
<bryce> I can upstream it... but to be honest most bugs like this that are just described as "random screen corruption" don't tend to go anywhere
<lifeless> it -always- seems to be the borders of the windows
<bryce> ok
<lifeless> specifically I think its the bit that metacity(?) makes into a white-black-white bounding box when you hit alt-tab
<bryce> you could also try describing what happens after.  E.g. some of these bugs you move a window and it redraws.  Other times the corruption is "permanent" or "mostly permanent", or goes away on vt switch
<lifeless> dropping a window on top of the remnants replaces them and then its fine for a while
<bryce> there was one (which I've reproduced) which would correct itself if metacity was restarted (thinking that one might be a metacity bug...  I can't seem to find it in Launchpad anymore though)
<bryce> aha, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/654768
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 654768 in xorg-server "compositor produces artefacts starting in maverick" [High,Confirmed]
<bryce> different issue, but might be worth checking if restarting metacity makes it go away
<bryce> lifeless, also you should indicate whether or not you've tested with a different wm like compiz and if so, whether you could reproduce it there.  At this point we can't tell whether it's a driver issue or bug in the window manager
<lifeless> actually, am I on oni? I'm not Its natty.
 * lifeless headdesks
<lifeless> every time I said o* read n*
<bryce> if it only affects window borders, that sounds like it could be wm-specific.  hard to say though, could be some driver bug underneath
<lifeless> whats another 2d wm ?
<bryce> compiz
<bryce> like, um... compiz --replace I think
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> and to switch back ?
<bryce> metacity --replace I believe
<bryce> if I'm wrong, someone on this channel will correct me, I'm sure
<bryce> lifeless, or other thing to try would be to kill metacity and let it restart (or manually restart it).
<lifeless> heh
<bryce> if that does not clear the corruption, then it's definitely an X bug.  If it does clear it, it may still be an X bug underneath but maybe metacity's wrong.
<lifeless> so compiz has wedged my UI
<lifeless> I'm just going to try and get metacity back now :)
<lifeless> right, back
<lifeless> ok, will kill and restart metacity next time it happens
<bryce> alright
<bryce> lifeless, toss your .xsession-errors on the bug report on the off chance there's a relevant error message.
<lifeless> uploading now
<bryce> lifeless, ok quick question now for you...
<bryce> lifeless, on https://dev.launchpad.net/LEP/DerivativeDistributions the first item under Constraints...  whereabouts in process is that item?  does it have an eta yet?
<bryce> "Ability to sync packages from the parent series, some auto, some manual, optionally rebuilding them "
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> we're a few weeks away from derived distros
<lifeless> so not long now
<bryce> lifeless, ok thanks
<bryce> lifeless, I assume after it's started it'll be a few months for implementation before it goes live?
<lifeless> bryce: I was talking until it goes live
<bryce> lifeless, ah, excellent
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-15
<jasoncwarner> bryce RAOF TheMuso robert_ancell meeting time! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-06-14
<robert_ancell> exciting!
<TheMuso> Good morning.
<jasoncwarner> morning....hope everyone is having a good penultimate week before the rally!
<jasoncwarner> anyway... bryce or RAOF here?
<jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] X.org update
<jasoncwarner> Ok, moving on. robert_ancell can you update us on LightDM?
<robert_ancell> still coming along.  There were some crashers that people are getting, which some have been fixed in an update.  I plan on releasing 0.4.0 today or tomorrow which has some more fixes.  The apport crash retracer doesn't seem to be working, which is making it harder to notice and decode these crashes - bug reports remain private so I'm not seeing them
<robert_ancell> talked with the design team last night, and they have a draft design so I can start working on a prototype greeter
<jasoncwarner> awesome.
 * bryce waves
<jasoncwarner> is it on by default now? MIR approved?
<jasoncwarner> hey bryce
<robert_ancell> yes, so the number of bug reports has gone up quite significantly
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: :)
<jasoncwarner> awesome
<robert_ancell> I think you still need to opt-in when you upgrade
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: thanks...good work. can't wait to see the protoype greeter as well :)
<jasoncwarner> bryce:  want to update on Xorg now?
<bryce> sure
<bryce> the new xorg package is merged in; this moves the failsafe-x bits and apport hooks over the the new xdiagnose package.
<bryce> I've been working on getting a MIR in for that, migrate it to dh_python2, etc.  Hopefully should be done this week
<bryce> I know RAOF is working on mesa but don't know what the status is for this week.  7.10.3 came out this week, but I think in oneiric we're moving to a git snapshot anyway
<bryce> been lots of user questions about graphics/input bugs this week too
<bryce> jasoncwarner, think that covers it
<jasoncwarner> bryce: yeah...and I've been hearing about the general state of drivers (fwiw)...
<jasoncwarner> thanks, bryce
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: care to give quick update on Accessibility and Qt specific stuff?
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Well didia is dealing with the QT patch integration side, I am working with upstream to get a few license issues solved for the qt-at-spi bridge. Hope to get that done today, push the patches upstream and get them integrated, as I was asked to fix up the license stuff due to lack of time on upstream's part. Hope to upload to the archive by EOW.
<TheMuso> Didier even
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso:  :)
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: awesome...thanks! I know didrocks is going to a Qt conf end of this week to sort some remaining issues out...
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: thanks!
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> np
<jasoncwarner> anyone else have anything they wanted to discuss?
<bryce> jasoncwarner, yeah one thing
<bryce> I'm interested in gathering ideas on improvements for launchpad that would help us.
<bryce> if anyone has ideas, please shoot them to me
<bryce> jasoncwarner, there's a coming feature for Launchpad that promises to help make doing merges easier
<jasoncwarner> bryce: very cool! thanks for the update :)
<jasoncwarner> (not that I do merges, but I've read about them....in a book)
<jasoncwarner> Ok...sounds like a wrap...anyone else (last call)?
<jasoncwarner> alrighty then....
<jasoncwarner> thanks everyone!
<jasoncwarner> [END OF MEETING]
<RAOF> BAH!  That'll learn me for relying on technology.  Apparently the meaning of âEnable USB Tetheringâ has been changed to âEnsure my mobile will not connect to a mobile networkâ behind my back.
<RAOF> Sorry guys.
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> Shit happens.
<bryce> heya RAOF
<RAOF> bryce: mesa is now blocked on bug #790204
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 790204 in llvm-2.9 "[MIR] libllvm-2.9" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790204
<bryce> RAOF, that's for the 7.11 branch, or still .10?
<RAOF> It's for 7.10
<RAOF> I *could* turn off the llvm support and upload 7.10.3.
<bryce> may as well, unless you think the mir is likely to go through soon
<RAOF> My thinking was to turn on llvm early, since we're going to *have* to turn it on soon anyway.
<RAOF> Yeah.  I guess I'll undo the llvm bits and upload.
<bryce> RAOF, btw if you get bored, take a look at the mesa bugs on http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/workqueue-natty.html; only about half a dozen, but a couple are -nouveau bugs that maybe could use looked at since we're flipping on 3d now
<bryce> (if you click on the Package header, it makes it easier to spot the mesa bugs)
<RAOF> Ah, yeah.  There are one or two actual bugs in there.
<TheMuso> kenvandine: Is there anywhere I can fetch a test copy of the Gwibber GTK3 port? I'd like to have a look and track its progress.
<RAOF> Is all my technology complaining about the cold or something?  Come on, sbuild, I know you can start!
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> RAOF: Whats weather like in Tassy these days? My mother is actually going down there to spend the weekend with one of her sisters. I expect its rather cold.
<RAOF> It's not that cold; it's just about 2C in the morning, and my office isn't well heated by the gas fire.
<RAOF> It gets up to 12ish, so not too cold.
<TheMuso> Ok nothing new there, sometimes on the mountains it doesn't get above 5-6 degrees.
<TheMuso> So she'll be used to it.
<RAOF> Yeah.  It won't be as cold as the Blue Mountains in winter.
<TheMuso> Yup seems so.
<kenvandine> TheMuso, sure
<kenvandine>  lp:~ken-vandine/gwibber/libgwibber-o-client/
<kenvandine> you need libdee from my gwibber ppa too, ppa:ken-vandine/gwibber
<kenvandine> build and run ./service/gwibber-streams and ./client/gwibber-client
<TheMuso> kenvandine: Thanks.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you're up early!
<RAOF> Good morning pitti, didrocks!
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, enough sleep today :-)
<didrocks> hey RAOF
<pitti> robert_ancell: btw, on yesterday's daily I still got the lightdm crash at start; it happens as soon as I press Enter, then a subsequent session works fine
<pitti> robert_ancell: this sounds a lot like the "wrong vt" but that we used to have, i. e. it starts on vt1 first and then pressing enter is caughht by the underlying getty
<robert_ancell> pitti, are you building from bzr?
<RAOF> Yay vt fighting!
<pitti> robert_ancell: do you have a mechanism that forces lightdm to start on vt7 the first time?
<pitti> robert_ancell: no, I was just testing the daily
<robert_ancell> pitti, yes, set vt=7 in the config
<pitti> robert_ancell: locally I'm currently running gdm3, as I'm still working on it
<robert_ancell> pitti, is the daily working?
<pitti> robert_ancell: with the "first session crashes" bug above, otherwise yes
<pitti> it shows a "GNOME" session which isn't installed, but I guess you know that already
<pitti> robert_ancell: "yes, set vt=7 in the config" -> is that done by default now?
<pitti> also, does it only apply to the first-ever X.org start?
<robert_ancell> pitti, it defaults to vt=active, which I think it should only do if it detects plymouth
<TheMuso> Good morning pitti, didrocks.
<didrocks> hey TheMuso!
<robert_ancell> pitti, so where are you getting daily builds from? I didn't get them to work
<TheMuso> didrocks: I am working on the qt at-spi packaging, however there are some license issues that need solving, mainly that the upstrea git repo doesn't have all the required license documents/headers present.
<didrocks> TheMuso: I've already done the packaging
<pitti> robert_ancell: cdimage.u.c., as usual
<TheMuso> I'm working with upstrea to fix that.
<robert_ancell> pitti, oh, so you're running 0.3.7
<didrocks> TheMuso: hum, who asked you to do that? I think we need to be more synced. People asked me to backport a11y to Qt hence the work on it :)
<TheMuso> didrocks: hrm ok, I have started to maintain it in debian pkg-a11y git. Have you got something somewhere that I can have a look at? The eventual plan is for the debian pkg-a11y team to maintain it.
<didrocks> TheMuso: there was already a package and it's in the ~kubuntu-ppa
<TheMuso> didrocks: Right, but I thought that was only Qt proper.
<TheMuso> didrocks: Yes, but it needs work.
<didrocks> TheMuso: I know about the licence and already pinged upstream about it, we need to avoid duplication there to not confuse them :)
<TheMuso> didrocks: Ok.
<didrocks> TheMuso: then, you can backport to the pkg-a11y git I guess once we are happy with it, let's not depend on that right now
<TheMuso> Yup sounds good.
<didrocks> nice :)
<didrocks> TheMuso: FYI, it's very crashy, but qt-at-spi seems to work from my tests
<TheMuso> didrocks: Yeah from what I tested I had the same experience.
<didrocks> pitti: robert_ancell: about the "GNOME" session, it's because lightdm doesn't test the TryExec key
<robert_ancell> didrocks, do you know why we have xsession files installed but not have the session to run?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: because all "default debian session" are packed in gnome-session
<didrocks> robert_ancell: so I'm not really eager to move them, import translation and such, in other packages
<robert_ancell> didrocks, what is the .desktop file that causes the "GNOME" session?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-shell.desktop I would say
<didrocks> let me check
<didrocks> robert_ancell: yeah, that one
<robert_ancell> oh, I'm still on natty so I don't see it
<robert_ancell> shouldn't it really be a part of the gnome-shell package?
<pitti> oh, it's the shell?
<pitti> I had assumed it was the panel fallback one
<didrocks> robert_ancell: well, as previously said, we have upstream translations
<didrocks> robert_ancell: so, moving it to another source would mean to move translations, sync everytime there is a change upstream
<didrocks> not sure we want to play that game
<didrocks> anyway, there is the TryExec key for that
<robert_ancell> didrocks, I guess I mean, "why don't they put it in the gnome-shell package"
<didrocks> lightdm should just test it
<robert_ancell> seems a bit of a roundabout way of doing things.  Yeah, I need to add it, it is a standard freedesktop option
<didrocks> robert_ancell: GNOME always put their default sessions in gnome-session, can be something raised upstream as before, there was not really the notion of "session"
<didrocks> (like "session type")
<didrocks> pitti: it's the shell, at least, the fact that you see the panel fallback means that the fallback is still working ;)
<pitti> didrocks: I don't see the fallback
<pitti> didrocks: this is from a daily live CD
<didrocks> oh?
<pitti> we don't install fallback by default
<didrocks> oh ok :)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> session restart, brb
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I followed up and subscribed
<robert_ancell> pitti, do you happen to know how to run a test d-bus?
<pitti> robert_ancell: session bus is easy, just run the program under dbus-launch
<pitti> you can't launch a system bus as user
<pitti> you have to change programs to connect to the session bus when testing
<robert_ancell> pitti, but wont that conflict with the existing session bus?
<pitti> that's what I did with e. g. upower
<pitti> robert_ancell: no, it just changes $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS for the program you run under dbus-launch
<pitti> you can run as many in parallel as you like
<pitti> but of course they are isolated from each other
<robert_ancell> pitti, looking at upower source, where are the tests?
<pitti> so you can't use it to test functinoality for a different program (like talking to the running gnome-session)
<robert_ancell> sure
<pitti> robert_ancell: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/src/Makefile.am#n126
<pitti> -> call of the tests
<pitti> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/src/linux/integration-test
<pitti> -> actual tests
<robert_ancell> pitti, ta
<jbicha> this doesn't seem useful: http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2011/06/14/networkmanager-and-dual-stack-addressing/
<didrocks> yeah, read that this morning
<pitti> yeah, it somehow turns the story upside down
<pitti> most apps shouldn't care about ipv4 vs. ipv6
<pitti> if I can reach my server, why do I need to care about the "how"
<jbicha> and 60 sec is an awful long time to wait to reconnect after waking my computer from sleep
<pitti> they still need to do some sane error handling, of course
<pitti> i. e. being online doesn't imply that I can talk to all servers in the world
<pitti> they might be down, or only on ipv6, etc.
<didrocks> agreed, if applications need to go to that level of handling for all services provided on the desktopâ¦
<robert_ancell> pitti, yay, it worked!  Thanks again!
<pitti> robert_ancell: rockin'
<pitti> robert_ancell: test suite for lightdm?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, runs from bzr-buildpackage finally
<robert_ancell> actually, now I need to test in a pbuilder...
<pitti> right, dbus-launch works wonders there, and it works on the buildds
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey, I also have to move the config file in the package, any tips?
<robert_ancell> guessing I need to make a preinst
<pitti> robert_ancell: hang on
<pitti> robert_ancell: there's http://www.dpkg.org/dpkg/ConffileHandling standard recipes, but they are obsolete now
<didrocks> I guess the head explain the new method
<pitti> there is a new dpkg-maintscript-helper method now
<RAOF> The maintscript method is nice and easy.
<didrocks> http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
<didrocks> pitti: robert_ancell ^
<RAOF> didrocks wins the google race!
<didrocks> :-)
<pitti> robert_ancell: man dpkg-maintscript-helper explains it quite nicely
 * didrocks is used to google for "moving conffile"
<didrocks> works wonder, first result :)
<didrocks> the header has some world on dpkg-maintscript-helper
<didrocks> robert_ancell: do not forget to pre-depends on dpkg 1.15.7.2 for lucid -> next LTS upgrade
<didrocks> (otherwise, you can have an issue in the preinst)
<robert_ancell> didrocks, is there a package you can point me at that uses the new method?  All the packages I have installed seem to use the old one
<didrocks> robert_ancell: sure, one sec
<pitti> grep dpkg-maintscript-helper /var/lib/dpkg/info/*
<pitti> robert_ancell: ^ plenty
<pitti> ntpdate, for example
<pitti> /var/lib/dpkg/info/ntpdate.preinst, /var/lib/dpkg/info/ntpdate.postinst, /var/lib/dpkg/info/ntpdate.postrm
<robert_ancell> aha!
<pitti> uses mv_conffile
<didrocks> yeah, I found a rm_conffile, but there are examples on mv_conffile :)
<micahg> robert_ancell: so, lightdm just crashed but I still see the session on the screen :(
<robert_ancell> micahg, can I haz stacktrace?
<micahg> nope :(
<micahg> X is gone too...
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
<chrisccoulson> the user has got the updated language pack btw
<chrisccoulson> you can tell that from the list of extensions he has installed :)
<micahg> robert_ancell: ah, I have an X stacktrace though :)
<robert_ancell> One for the RAOF department then!
<RAOF> micahg: Pastebin!
<micahg> RAOF: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/627128/
<micahg> RAOF: interesting snippet from the xorg log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/627129/
<RAOF> micahg: Ra raw! (Incidentally, pastebining the full Xorg.0.log is generally a much better idea).  How reproducible is this?
<RAOF> Pastebins are cheap.  *Always* paste full logs!
<RAOF> (Unless you have security concerns about their content)
 * micahg always has security concerns ;)
<didrocks> ok, I'll catch up the plane for the Qt contributor summit. Will not be really online since I'm back on Saturday night, but you still can drop me an email
<micahg> RAOF: [ 98665.710] (WW) intel(0): first get vblank counter failed: Invalid argument
<didrocks> see you guys!
<RAOF> micahg: Aaah, right.  robert_ancell, you're up!  You haven't set up the VT correctly :)
<micahg> 5565 of those messages
<RAOF> I don't think there's ever anything particularly sensitive in Xorg.0.log.
 * micahg is still wondering why he sees a screenshot of everything before it crashed
<pitti> chrisccoulson: erm, so he does have firefox-locale-nl?
<RAOF> If I had the full log, I believe that we'd find that X can't claim the VT, resulting in the intel driver not being able to claim drm master, resulting in explosions.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, please explain
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but it doesn't actually show in Dutch?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, he's got the updated language-pack-nl-base, but no firefox-locale-nl
<pitti> ok
<pitti> but they are both in the very same archive, pocket, and even component
<pitti> i. e. the same Packages.gz
<pitti> I don't see how you can have one without the other
<RAOF> micahg: *Could* I get the full Xorg.0.log?
 * micahg skims quick
<robert_ancell> micahg, you are running lightdm from upstart right?
<micahg> robert_ancell: I believe so
<robert_ancell> micahg, have you got a lightdm log?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - his extension list shows he's missing any firefox language pack extensions entirely, and because he has multiple firefox profiles, you can also tell that he used to have the firefox 4 language packs installed by looking at the profiles which he hasn't used since the upgrade
<chrisccoulson> pitti - "      /usr/lib/firefox-4.0.1/extensions/langpack-nl@firefox.mozilla.org.xpi does not exist (old profile?)"
<micahg> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627136/
<micahg> robert_ancell: yes, a minimal one
<RAOF> micahg: Thanks.  Told you there was nothing security critical in there ;)
<micahg> robert_ancell: what are you looking for out of it?
<robert_ancell> micahg, anything, just checking it's behaving as normal
<micahg> everything seems fine until the end and it just records a signal 111
<micahg> *11
<robert_ancell> micahg, from the X server?
<micahg> yep
<RAOF> Hm.  No, that's not what I thought it was.
<micahg> the X server was killed from under lightdm, so lightdm quit gracefully :)
<RAOF> micahg: Could I have a (filtered, if you want âº) dmesg corresponding to that Xorg.0.log?
<RAOF> It looks like something permission-related is screwed up and the intel driver is having a hissy fit.
<robert_ancell> micahg, well, it should have started another X server, but that's not implemented yet
<micahg> RAOF: 2 segfaults, will pastebin
<RAOF> I'm particularly interested in any {drm,i915} messages, obivously.
<micahg> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/627139/
<micahg> RAOF: ah, I have something else interesting: [ 1765.960027] [drm] GMBUS timed out, falling back to bit banging on pin 6 [i915 gmbus reserved]
<micahg> 71 of those about 30 minutes after boot
<RAOF> If your monitors are on and have the right resolution that message probably isn't interesting.
<micahg> it's a laptop using its internal screen
<RAOF> Hm.  Was this crash at the lightdm login screen, or during regular use and just happened to additionally take down lightdm?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - if you do "apt-get upgrade", then the recommends don't get installed
<micahg> this was after being up for a day
<chrisccoulson> i just tried it here
<pitti> chrisccoulson: correct, that's its purpose
<pitti> chrisccoulson: and apt-get upgrade is pretty broken really
<pitti> folks need to use dist-upgrade, or update-manager
<pitti> upgrade wouldn't work with a Depends: either, it would just hold back the packages
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, i didn't realise that with the Depends: case
<chrisccoulson> pitti - "I dont recall exactly if I used apt-get update/upgrade or update-manager"
<chrisccoulson> i guess he used apt-get upgrade ;)
<pitti> *nod*
<RAOF> micahg: So it was within a session, rather than at the greeter.  This would make more sense, what with the intel driver apparently spontaneously going crazy.
<micahg> yep
<micahg> machine's been running hot too since the 3.0 kernel
<RAOF> There's nothing else drm-related in dmesg around the 95,000 second mark?  I'll have to wander through the code to find where Invalid Argument could be returned.
<micahg> nope
 * micahg checks again
<RAOF> It's often annoying that i915 isn't more verbose when things go wrong.
<micahg> RAOF: no, just apparmor denial messages (which I'll probably fix at the rally if I don't get to them before that)
<RAOF> Yeah.  Silly i915.  Why would you bother logging failed syscalls?
<chrisccoulson> to fill up your disk?
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * RAOF reboots to test stuff.
<micahg> robert_ancell: RAOF: do either of you need anything else from this session?  I'm going to reboot the machine if not
<robert_ancell> micahg, no, I think I'm ok
<seb128> hey desktopers
<RAOF> micahg: No, reboot away.
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
<seb128> quite fine I think, let me finish my coffee before being sure ;-)
<RAOF> I assume the gnome-settings-daemon crash is well-known by now?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<RAOF> Mmm, featureless grey.
<pitti> WFM
<RAOF> Ah, ok.  I'll see if it's a local problem then.
<seb128> hey RAOF, which one?
<RAOF> After dinner, though.
<seb128> hey pitti
<RAOF> seb128: Heh!  Got lots?  This one is apparently the one that I could very happily reproduce in gdb just five minutes ago but that now works. :)
<seb128> RAOF, some over the cycles, one known race on login where the gdm instance didn't exit yet when the session one tries to start
<RAOF> It *might* be that it only happens in a gnome-shell session; it was segfaulting in gtk_ensure_icon_for_name or somesuch.
<seb128> some other random or hard to debug ones
<seb128> RAOF, hum, stacktrace would be interesting, could be the gnome-icon-theme split and the g-s session trying to load an icon pitti didn't put in the standard set
<pitti> I don't have g-i-t-full either, and it's working fine here
<RAOF> seb128: That was my first thought; I've got gnome-icon* installed, though.
<seb128> pitti, you are not using gnome-shell though?
<RAOF> Anyway, I'll log back into a gnome-shell session and post a full backtrace on launchpad for you.  After dinner. :)
<pitti> RAOF: oh, you are?
<seb128> he's a traitror :p
<pitti> RAOF: gnome-shell is missing a dependency to gnome-icon-theme-full
<RAOF> I have gonme-icon-theme-full installed.
<pitti> RAOF: we just didn't add it yet to continue autosyncs for a while still
<seb128> ok, so that's not it
<pitti> ok, then it's not my bug :)
<seb128> pitti, btw feel free to drop tomboy from the seeds if you want, I emailed the lists about it
<pitti> FWIW, gdm 3 and gnome-screensaver already look like gnome-shell :)
<pitti> seb128: ok
<seb128> lightdm doesn't ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey!
<RAOF> I was seeing if the Xorg pointer-barriers patch was working properly; only gnome-shell actually uses it.
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<RAOF> The shell looks pretty swanky. ;)
<RAOF> Even with a borken theme!
<seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> same old
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, can you fix bug #794315
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 794315 in lightdm "lightdm forgets to source /etc/profile and ~/.profile" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794315
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> should be trivial and I would get my ~/bin back in the path :p
<pitti> seb128: kicked from the seeds
 * RAOF â dinner
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<fta> pitti, hi, can i tell apport-retrace to stop trying to search for the dbgsyms? it's totally broken in oneiric and it's painfully slow
<pitti> fta: just run it as non-root
<fta> pitti, i do, it's still taking several minutes spitting hundreds of WARNINGS
<fta> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/627166/
<chrisccoulson> gedit is painfully slow to load on my machine
<chrisccoulson> firefox even starts faster than gedit
<pitti> fta: you currently can't disable the warnings, yes
<fta> chrisccoulson, same here
<seb128> gedit works fine there
<chrisccoulson> fta, i'm glad it's not just me then ;)
<seb128> did it start being slow recently for you?
<seb128> well it's less than 1 second to start here
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ever since we got the new version
<seb128> so dunno if that's slow for you
<fta> evo3 crashes in gtk3 while opening a meeting invite: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627168/
<pitti> seb128: hm, I just rebooted, and g-s-d is now not running any more either
<pitti> seems it's due to the very latest updates from this morning
<seb128> pitti, stacktrace?
<pitti> I can run it manually in a terminal
<pitti> and did so now
<pitti> seb128: I'll investigate
<seb128> grep settings .xsession-errors?
<glatzor> morning pitti seb128 and mvo
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> hey glatzor, how are you?
<pitti> already checked, nothing standing out
<pitti> hey glatzor!
<glatzor> fine and yourself, pitti and seb128 ?
<seb128> pitti, can you pastebin it?
<seb128> glatzor, I'm fine thanks ;-)
<pitti> seb128: need to restart my session, it's cluttered with several g-s-d restarts right now
<seb128> pitti, don't bother
<seb128> we can see that later
<pitti> no problem, I just want to submit my updated patches to bugzilla, then I'm done with udisks and get to this
<fta> grrr, thanks to mutt, i discovered i'm late for a meeting
<jibel> hi desktop, morning's crash bug 797498
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797498 in gtk+3.0 "nm-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797498
<jibel> not specific to nm-applet since it also affect gnome-settings-daemon
<pitti> oh, perhaps that's the one we are currently looking at in g-s-d
<pitti> same thing, I didn't have it running, but running from a terminal works
<fta> jibel, looks like my evolution crash too
 * pitti blames new GTK :)
<pitti> seb128, jibel: I'll restart my session with apport enabled, to see whether that's the same issue RAOF and I have
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> hey jibel
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<jibel> Good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<rodrigo_> jibel, so, about the g-s-d's crash you had yesterday, whats the contents of /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/gtk-modules, only the atk module?
<pitti> bah, totally useless trace :/
<rodrigo_> hmm, there's no -dbg package for at-spi2-atk
<jibel> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> brb
<rodrigo_> jibel, can you install libgtk-3-0-dbg and see if you get a better backtrace?
<rodrigo_> jibel, and libglib2.0-0-dbg
<jibel> rodrigo_, sure
<seb128> re
<seb128> jibel, pitti: works fine there but I don't dist-upgrade often, I tend to select updates, I've the new gtk though
<pitti> I try to downgrade gtk to 3.1.4 and compare
<seb128> pitti, you get it at every login?
<seb128> have a stacktrace would be useful
<seb128> I did some updates, let me restart
<rodrigo_> jibel, do you have glib 2.28 or 2.29 installed?
<pitti> seiflotfy: yes, consistently
<pitti> sorry, seb128 ^
<jibel> rodrigo_, there is a better trace in duplicate bug 796497 and bug 795392
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 796497 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in __run_exit_handlers() (dup-of: 788710)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/796497
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 788710 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788710
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 795392 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in __run_exit_handlers() (dup-of: 788710)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795392
<jibel> rodrigo_, 2.29.8-0ubuntu1
<pitti> here as well; latest oneiric
<pitti> downgrading to libgtk-3-0_3.1.4-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb and keeping everything else up to date fixes it
<pitti> i. e. also the other binaries of gtk
<rodrigo_> jibel, no, both of those traces don't show where the actual crash is, see #0 in Thread 1, that's the actual atexit handler crashing
<rodrigo_> ok, so 2.29.x has the atexit call commented because of a crash, which might be this one, checking when that was commented...
<pitti> rodrigo_: did the previous gtk 3.1.4 not use the new glib atexit handler then?
<pitti> rodrigo_: want me to try current gtk with an older glib? (right now I tried older GTK 3.1.4 with current glib)
<rodrigo_> pitti, you get the same crash?
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes, you don't?
<rodrigo_> no
<pitti> g-s-d and nm-applet don't start automatically
<rodrigo_> although I don't have glib 2.29
<pitti> but running either in a terminal works
<pitti> rodrigo_: dist-upgrade to current oneiric?
<pitti> ii  libglib2.0-0          2.29.8-0ubuntu1       GLib library of C routines
<rodrigo_> yes, will do
<pitti> rodrigo_: shall I try downgrading glib? to which version?
<rodrigo_> current gtk doesn't seem to have any atexit handler in the code
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, please
<pitti> rodrigo_: did the previous gtk 3.1.4 not use the new glib atexit handler then?https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73542141/Stacktrace.txt applies to an atexit handler?
<pitti> it looks like a fairly "standard" crash to me?
<pitti> rodrigo_: trying 2.29.6 then
<pitti> rodrigo_: glib 2.29.6 and gtk 3.1.6 does not fix it
<pitti> downgrading glib makes no difference here
<pitti> and above crash really looks like being in GTK only
<jibel> rodrigo_, I can't get the 1rst symbol being resolved. I still get  #0  0x019e5a70 in ?? () Here is the list of dng packages installed on this system: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627199/ any idea ?
<pitti> rodrigo_: are we perhaps talking about two different crashes here?
<jibel> s/dng/dbg
<pitti> rodrigo_: I mean bug 797498 , which also applies to g-s-d
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797498 in gtk+3.0 "nm-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797498
<jibel> pitti, yes it's a different crash
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, the stacktace the crash I talk about is about an atexit handler, bug #788710
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 788710 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788710
<jibel> the gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf started this morning, the at_exit crash 2 weeks ago
<pitti> ah, that explains it
<pitti> I don't get 788710 then, it seems to apply to the live CD only, or other setups?
<seb128> re
<pitti> seb128: wb
<seb128> ok, after several restart with different gtk versions I don't get g-s-d issues or similar
<pitti> seb128: so for bug 797498, downgrading just libgtk-3-0 to 3.1.4 helps
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797498 in gtk+3.0 "nm-applet crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797498
<seb128> weird
<seb128> why does it work for me?!
<seb128> is anybody else on i386 or are you all on amd64 there?
<rodrigo_> the atexit call in glib has always been commented, so it might be another lib using an atexit handler
<rodrigo_> jibel, looking at the libs used in g-s-d, to see if its in some other -dbg package
<seb128> pitti, is that happening only on login?
<fta> my evo crash in i386
<fta> +is
<pitti> seb128: yes, apparently so; as I said, I can launch g-s-d and nm-applet from a terminal just fine
<pitti> which makes this "fun" to debug :/
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> pitti, did you manage to get a stacktrace with libgtk-3-0-dbg installed?
<pitti> seb128: I have gtk, glib, g-s-d debug symbols installed, but totally useless trace
<seb128> pitti, what is extra "fun" is that there is 5 weeks of active commits between the 2 gtk versions
<pitti> I guess I'll try again
<seb128> pitti, it's in gtk code? or atk or gail or something in the a11y stack?
<pitti> if someone has a way to reproduce in a running system, then bisecting would be easy
<pitti> seb128: I just downgraded libgtk-3-0, not gail, not atk, not gir, etc.
<seb128> ok
<pitti> you are on i386, right? perhaps that's the reason
<pitti> well, I'm also running gdm 3, but other people who get this don't
<pitti> and the LP bug is i386 as well, hmm
<seb128> well fta says he gets a similar issue on i386
<fta> i'm also using gdm, not lightdm
<fta> (not sure why it would matter for evo though)
<pitti> fta: does evo crash for you in a running system? or just e-d-s on sessino start?
<fta> e-d-s is fine here
<pitti> evo starts fine here even with gtk 3.1.6
<fta> i just have a 100% reproducible crash while opening meeting invites from outlook
<seb128> pitti, there is a recent commit in trunk: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/gtk/gtkimage.c?id=c903ece96be6b307eb756430f0b0b9acfca4dbae
<seb128> not sure if that could be it
<fta> my stack: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627168/
<pitti> oooh
<pitti> seb128: the trace goes through that
<pitti> #1  0x002d803b in ensure_stated_icon_from_info (image=<value optimized out>, info=0x0) at /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.1.6/./gtk/gtkimage.c:1528
<seb128> pitti, right, I was looking to recent fixes to gtkimage.c
<pitti> seb128: shall I build a GTK with that patch and check?
<seb128> l1528 is       gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf (source, destination);
<seb128> so that would fit with the destination being not properly initialized
<seb128> pitti, if you want sure
<pitti> doing
<seb128> pitti, want I usually do is commenting the udeb and static flavor in the rules to win some build time
<seb128> if you want to build a package
<seb128> you need to clean the corresponding lines in the .install and .install.in but that's easy, just grep for static *install* and udeb *install*
<pitti> ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, well, I'm pretty sure it's that commit, should I just backport and upload?
<rodrigo_> yes, that might be it, it tries to g_object_unref the destination in some code path where it might not be initialized correctly
<pitti> seb128: I have it locally in bzr now
<seb128> pitti, ok, I let you deal with it then ;-)
<pitti> seb128: and building
<pitti> seb128: but if you want to do it, sure
<pitti> seb128: ah, ok :)
<seb128> no need to duplicate work
<pitti> seb128: letting it build while I'm talking to Jason then :)
<rodrigo_> jibel, about your crash, I just narrowed it down to, maybe, the X libs, so are you fully up to date?
 * rodrigo_ upgrades everything related
<jibel> rodrigo_, Yes I am, me and my system
<rodrigo_> heh
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll upgrade and try to replicate it myself
<mvo> chrisccoulson: silly question, but is thunderbird using evo-data-server for the addressbook?
<seb128> mvo, it's going to
<chrisccoulson> mvo, not yet
<mvo> for oneiric?
<seb128> mvo, that's one of the blockers for the tb by default
<pitti> hey mvo
<pitti> mvo: happy belated birthday! didn't see you around yesterday, were you partying? :-)
 * pitti hugs mvo
<hrw> hi
<seb128> oh, mvo is getting older again?
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<seb128> hey hrw
<mvo> pitti: haha, many thanks! I was indeed :)
<mvo> thanks seb128!
<jibel> rodrigo_, for info I'm using lightdm, if it makes a difference.
 * mvo hugs seb128
<rodrigo_> jibel, shouldn't
<hrw> is it normal that after installation of gnome-control-center/oneiric it segfaults on some components?
<seb128> no, which ones? what stacktrace?
<hrw> 'background' for example - nevermind that it does not have sense running it on xfce desktop
<hrw> I need to install some debugs first
<hrw> http://pastebin.com/ebK9R2rw - maybe it is because of Oxygen icon theme
<seb128> it has been creating issues before, try without it
<hrw> Humanity icon theme will be fine?
<hrw> nope
<hrw> same after switching to full gnome 3.0.2 icon theme
<hrw> http://pastebin.com/XaH1mtca
<seb128> oh, that's a gtk bug
<seb128> we were discussing it half an hour ago, pitti is trying a built with a git patch to fix it
<hrw> thanks
<seb128> yw
<hrw> I am trying to find a way to setup theme for gtk3 apps
<hrw> as xfce takes care of gtk2 ones
<seb128> install gnome-tweak-tools
<seb128> or use dconf-editor
<hrw> dconf-editor is in which package?
<hrw> 11:59 hrw@puchatek:~$ LC_ALL=C gnome-tweak-tool 2>&1 |pastebinit
<hrw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627220/
<seb128> gnome-tweak-tool should depends on gnome-shell since it uses a schemas from it
<seb128> dconf-editor is in dconf-tools
<hrw> gsettings-desktop-schemas is what gnome-tweak-tools depends on
<seb128> right, well the clock schemas is a gnome-shell one so it should depends on it
<pitti> \o/ new GTK working like charm
<seb128> that's the way gsettings works
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<hrw> pitti: cool
<pitti> seb128: nice, GTK built exactly as long as the 27 minutes I was talking to Jason :) (I didn't bother to disable stuff in rules)
<seb128> ;-)
<ogra_> if you want longer phonecalls, get arm :)
<seb128> it's taking less than 10 minutes if you hack the rules
<hrw> seb128: with gnome-shell installed gnome-tweak-tool works
<pitti> seb128: ^ could we apply the gnome-shell dependency to tweak tool in Debian?
<pitti> seb128: then we'd get rid of our delta, as g-i-t-full would then be transitively pulled in from g-shell
<jibel> hrw, seb128, this is bug 795084
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 795084 in gnome-tweak-tool "gnome-tweak-tool fails to start .. org.gnome.shell.clock not installed - should depend on gnome-shell" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795084
<pitti> seb128: I think I'll just apply the dep to g-shell right now, there seem to be enough people stumbling over this
<pitti> but at least we'd only have the delta in one place then
<hrw> thx jibel
<seb128> jibel, thanks
<seb128> pitti, ok, well gnome-tweak-tools is in pkg-gnome I think so feel free to add the depends there
<pitti> seb128: right
<pitti> seb128: oh, and I think I'll add some dpkg-vendor --is ubuntu magic to gnome-shell to add the g-i-t-full dep only for Ubuntu
<pitti> ok, taking bug 795084 then and doing above
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 795084 in gnome-tweak-tool "gnome-tweak-tool fails to start .. org.gnome.shell.clock not installed - should depend on gnome-shell" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795084
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<chrisccoulson> heh - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033476.html :)
<pitti> yay chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> i'm not going to spend any more time on that now
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i closed one of my WI's on the default-email blueprint now ;)
<chrisccoulson> i had a chat with one of the lightning developers last night
<pitti> nice!
<chrisccoulson> we've got a plan for how to do calendaring
<pitti> splendid, g-shell currently FTBFS
<chrisccoulson> oh, how come? nothing to do with spidermonkey i hope ;)
<pitti> /usr/include/clutter-1.0/clutter/clutter-actor-meta.h:95:1: error: unknown type name 'G_CONST_RETURN'
<pitti> oh, I think that might be a deprecated one now
<chrisccoulson> oh, that's ok then
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it is
<pitti> -DG_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
<seb128> pitti, the clutter update from yesterday should have sorted that for clutter, did you update today?
<pitti> yes, I dist-upgraded some minutes ago
<pitti> I have libclutter-1.0-dev 1.6.16-0ubuntu1
<seb128> pitti, yeah, seems like there is still some issues
<rodrigo_> any dbus daemon package that shuts down during upgrades, to see as an example for accountsservice?
<seb128> pitti, ok, that's fixed in git but not in the current tarball, I guess build without the deprecation errors until the next update
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> rodrigo_, what do you mean?
<rodrigo_> seb128, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/785680 , there's a comment saying " I see no way for the daemon to shut down during a package upgrade (and the associated postinst to perform that)."
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 785680 in accountsservice "[MIR] accountsservice" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<seb128> hum
<rodrigo_> so I want to have a look how this is done in other packages
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you know of any?
<rodrigo_> the couple ones I've looked don't do anything like that
<pitti> rodrigo_, seb128: yes, upower and udisks do it
<rodrigo_> although, is it really a good idea to shut down during an upgrade?
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah, ok, cool
<pitti> /var/lib/dpkg/info/udisks.postinst
<seb128> pitti, danke
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, it needs the postrm, prerm and postinst, right?
<seb128> it shouldn't?
<pitti> rodrigo_: postinst is the most important bit; prerm is good for cleaning up, postrm shouldn't be necessary
<rodrigo_> ok, thanks pitti
<janimo> seb128, is it worth keeping debian/control in bzr if it is autogenerated from control.in? I see it is there in the clutter package
<pitti> seb128: ok, http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome?view=revision&revision=28452 should do it
<pitti> I tested the build in Debian in both ways
<seb128> janimo, why not? it's easier to bzr add debian than to filter files
<seb128> pitti, danke
<janimo> seb128, ok, just that it seems an unpacked source has a different control file than the one kept in LP, as the latter is the old version
<seb128> janimo, I usually do debuild clean before commiting to have it updated
<seb128> but I guess it's not always the case
<seb128> janimo, does it create any issue in practice?
<janimo> seb128, probably not, I was wondering if a spurious file will get added to the debdiff because of this
<seb128> no
<janimo> seb128, I modified the bzr package branch, and when copying it over to the src package before upload, it changes control too
<janimo> ok
<seb128> bzr bd will do a clean before building the source so the control will be updated
<seb128> janimo, why do you copy over?
<janimo> seb128, probably because I do not fully understand how UDD works :)
<seb128> janimo, debian only != udd ;-)
<seb128> janimo, just run "bzr bd --source"
<janimo> I made packagiung changes and now am about to do an update of the 'real' package then dput
<seb128> it will build the source for you
<seb128> or bzr bd to build with the binaries
<seb128> or bzr bd-do to edit a patch
<seb128> bzr bd-do gives you an unpacked source and copy over the changes you do in the debian dir when you exit 0
<seb128> you usually do bzr bd-do; quilt push, edit; quilt refresh; exit 0
<seb128> then bzr bd
<janimo> oh quilt too? for every package?
<seb128> well those using quilt
<seb128> you can edit-patch
<seb128> well that's for editing a patch
<seb128> if you just need tweaks to the debian dir just edit files in the checkout and use bzr bd and bzr bd --source
<janimo> is this written up? The only link I found in the wiki was about packages under bzr (debcommit, etc) which is nice, but apparently not all I need
<seb128> janimo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
<janimo> seb128, thanks
<janimo> seb128, bzr bd is nice indeed. I never used it before. When getting a package which is tracked in bzr it would be helpful to point to a wikipage as well and make a stronger case for actually using that instead of classical dput only.
<janimo> I must have missed that last time, so my clutter changes got dropped on last sync
<seb128> janimo, right, sorry about the dropping
<rodrigo_> pitti, is this ok -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/oneiric/accountsservice/add_postinst/+merge/64664 ? seems to work for me, for both upgrades and removals
<janimo> seb128, it's ok, I missed to put them in bzr, and the rules for syncing were unclear to me
<pitti> rodrigo_: looks great to me, thanks!
 * pitti -> lunch, bbl
<rodrigo_> pitti, ok, I'll upload then
<rodrigo_> hmm, although not sure I have permissions for accountsservice?
<seb128> we are on sync with debian so ideally we would get those fix there
<seb128> the debian maintainer is responsive as well
<seb128> so maybe open a bug on the bts with the diff
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok, I'll submit it to debian then
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> lunch, bbl
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<pitti> argh, silly apt
<seb128> pitti, did you remove half of your install in a dist-upgrade? ;-)
<pitti> no, but apt-cache now fails to work under fakechroot
<pitti> this happened since the last fakechroot update
<pitti> currently submitting a debian bug, I have a workaround now
<pitti> (it made pkgbinarymangler fail on the buildds)
<pitti> jibel: argh, forgot to add the bug# to gtk-3; thanks for closing!
<jibel> pitti, no worries. Thanks for fixing it!
<jibel> rodrigo_, now that the gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf bug is fixed,  the exit() crash is back on boot.
<jcastro> hey seb128 - if tomboy doesn't make it we could always just put it in Featured Apps
<seb128> jcastro, sure
<kinouchou> salut seb128
<seb128> lut kinouchou
<cyphermox> bonjour groupe!
<mterry> mpt, ping about Date & TIme
<seb128> hey mterry
<seb128> hi cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey seb128
<seb128> how are you?
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<cyphermox> I wish I could sleep in my bed. the bedroom is still not fixed yet, they're about to start the works though
<seb128> what happened to your bedroom?
<seb128> pitti, btw I reassigned a bunch of bugs to the teams, I'm not sure how to keep a list of "desktop things that somebody should work on"
<pitti> seb128: that's fine
<seb128> I tend to cross some when reading my bug emails but I'm not sure how to deal with them so they don't get lost
<mpt> mterry, Wed Jun 15 14:28:18 BST 2011 :-)
<mterry> mpt, :)  I'm working on the gtk3 port of indicator-datetime
<mpt> cool
<mterry> mpt, and the unlock button has changed appearances, wanted to know how you wanted it to look
<mterry> i've got a screenshot
<mterry> It will be difficult to get it to look like the mockups (lock button, label label)
<mterry> Now lock and label are inside a button
<mterry> mpt, http://mterry.name/time.png
<mterry> Obviously, I can play with the width and justification
<mpt> oh dear
<pedro_> seb128, i have a list created for that
<seb128> pedro_, "that"?
<pedro_> http://people.canonical.com/~pedro/desktop/
<pedro_> check 'assigned bugs' sort by assigned
<seb128> oh, I noticed on the wiki yesterday
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> but I forgot to ask how you were building it
<mpt> mterry, it's good that the label is clickable now, but the border is overdoing it (compare the labels for checkboxes and radio buttons)
<mpt> mterry, so, how about you unjustify it and left-align it, and then Cimi can fix the border in the theme.
<mterry> mpt, I could probably drop the border, but it would be for the whole thing
<mpt> Does that make sense?
<pedro_> seb128, notice also that i'm listing 'bad bugs' like ones having a good quantity of dups or users affected , so you guys can look and start grabbing some from the list
<mpt> mterry, that way we won't be doing something special just for this particular unlock button.
<pedro_> seb128, i'm not looking much into 'heat' cause sometimes that is not accurate , bugs with  0 users affected gets a high heat and the opposite for bugs with a bunch of users affected ,etc
<mterry> mpt, yeah, I can do that.  OK.  Shall I drop Cimi a line?
<mterry> You'd like the whole border gone?
<pedro_> seb128, i'm using launchpadlib for building the whole thing, is a script that runs every two hours
<mterry> (for the general case, not for me to do it in this one case)
<mpt> mterry, no, just from the label. I think it makes sense for the icon to still have a border, like checkboxes and radio buttons do.
<seb128> pedro_, great list, very useful, thanks!
<seb128> pedro_, you should perhaps email the ubuntu-desktop list about it
<seb128> pedro_, btw what about moving it next to version to ~platform/desktop rather?
<pedro_> seb128, you're welcome if you have any feedback just ping me and i can improve the search for your area of interest
<mterry> mpt, agreed, but I'll be interested to see how easy that is for Cimi  :)
<ogra> hmm, seems like nm-applet doesnt autostart anymore since the last upgrade of my recent oneric arm install
<seb128> pedro_, that will avoid people highlighting you went copying the url :p
<seb128> ogra: what libgtk-3-0 version?
<pedro_> seb128, sure i just need to do some factoring on the code cause is a 'bit' ugly :-P
<seb128> pedro_, well, no hurry, let me know if you need help to move it to the platform location
<pedro_> seb128, oki doki, thanks :-)
<seb128> pedro_, well first fix your code and when you are happy with it we can do that ;-)
<ogra> seb128, 3.1.6-0ubuntu1
<seb128> ogra: upgrade to 3.1.6-0ubuntu2 once it's built on your slow arch ;-)
<ogra> upgraded 5 min ago... firing up nm-applet through alt+f2 works fine
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> waiting for the buildd then, thanks :)
<seb128> yw
<rodrigo_> jibel, right, my upgrade has finished, so testing and debugging now
<seb128> pedro_, can you can a bug number or date column?
<seb128> pedro_, I would like to be able to sort new bugs first
<pedro_> seb128, all the columns are sortable
<seb128> pedro_, right, but there is no bug number one :p and sorting by summary doesn't seem to work
<pedro_> ah ok, yes i can split that part
<seb128> pedro_, it's neither sorted by number nor alphabetically, not sure what it's doing
<pedro_> i was just following the lp way to do it, but that's easy
 * pedro_ takes note
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<pedro_> thank you for the feedback :-9
<seb128> pedro_, well or get the summary sorting to act on the numbers
<seb128> pedro_, otherwise great work, I see it lists all the bug I reassigned to the team recently so I could just have worked from that list ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, it's using the desktop-bugs subscriptions right? so we should make sure that's updated for the new GNOME3 components
<pedro_> i've noticed some really old bugs still assigned to folks on the team
<pedro_> like bugs from 2007 or so
<pedro_> so doing a sanity check would be nice
<seb128> yeah, we do that every cycle usually
<seb128> the issue is that there is no way to make the difference between individual pet bugs and bugs assigned that need work
<pedro_> seb128, yes it's using desktop-bugs subscriptions and i'm also building special list for bugs not being there, like the telepathy stack, gwibber, mozilla packages , etc
<pedro_> at the other packages section you'll find more packages not being included on desktop-bugs but that we're maintaining
<pedro_> and compiz / unity have  a separate section cause they're having way more bugs and the list was really not lookable
<seb128> pedro_, ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, did you try to get oneiric retracers running?
<pitti> not yet
<pitti> seb128: they keep crashing even on natty :/
<seb128> pitti, on what errors?
<pitti> not really sure why the amd64 one crashed, though
<pitti> the i386 seems a bad bug, untagging
<seb128> pitti, I will try to get an oneiric environment on and running at least manually if that's ok with you
<pitti> seb128: oh, sure!
<pitti> seb128: take the natty chroot and dist-upgrade it?
<seb128> robert_ancell mentioned he needs it for lightdm
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> s/take/copy/
<pitti> I fixed the bug and restarted
<pitti> hm, why does a freshly created user have a custom dconf setting for org.gnome.desktop.background picture-uri!?
<pitti> I guess the gconf migration might get into the way
<seb128> pitti, how custom setting?
<pitti> it's set to warty-final-ubuntu
<pitti> in ./.config/dconf/user
<pitti> i. e. you can't change it any more in the system default
<seb128> we could perhaps take the opportunity that there is a migration to change the filename btw
<pitti> how could the conversion help us there?
<pitti> picture-uri = /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename
<pitti> that just assings the old value to a new key; can you specify value transformations there?
<seb128> pitti, well, there is code in g-s-d that converts that to an uri
<pitti> hm, I'll try to set both gconf and dconf defaults then
<pitti> ooh, that might be it then
<pitti> i. e. it's not gsettings-desktop-schemas.convert, but that g-s-d code which writes a non-customized system default into the user's dconf db
<seb128> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/73156984/gnome-settings-daemon_3.0.2-1ubuntu1_3.0.2-1ubuntu2.diff.gz
<seb128> pitti, it's likely yes
<pitti> hm, no, it doesn't touch gconf
<pitti> so I guess the migrator just takes the old gconf system default
<seb128> could be, I didn't check if the .convert migrate user keys only or if they migrate key values without making a difference between default and user ones
<pitti> yes, I just confirmed it
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^ do you know?
<pitti> gsettings-data-convert --verbose --dry-run|grep background
<pitti> set key 'picture-uri' to string '/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png'
<pitti> so I need to set the gconf default as well
<seb128> pitti, is that for your custom CD spec?
<pitti> it'd be easier if it would just iterate over the user's actual gconf customizations
<pitti> seb128: yes
<pitti> instead of assuming that it would need to migrate each and every gconf system default
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, I think it migrates key values, whatever they come from
<seb128> pitti, feel free to add a workitems for "just iterate over the user's actual gconf customizations" to the gnome3 spec
<pitti> it would certainly help to avoid other cases like that
<seb128> it shouldn't be really hard to do
<pitti> ok, will do
<seb128> and it will avoid getting stucked later because we got system default set as user settings
<seb128> which will not reflect default changes
<pitti> right
<pitti> added
<seb128> danke
<pitti> the fun thing is that it skips other keys, such as
<pitti> Skipping GConf key '/apps/gnome_settings_daemon/plugins/background/priority', no user value
<seb128> hggdh, hey, no clue about bug #797710 then, it seems similar to the issue pitti was having earlier which got fixed in 0ubuntu2
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797710 in gtk+3.0 "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_icon_source_set_pixbuf()" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797710
<seb128> did you restart since the update?
<pitti> nice, works
<hggdh> seb128: yes, I had rebooted to guarantee a clean env
<seb128> ok, dunno then
<seb128> it happens every time you try to run nautilus?
<pitti> hggdh: dpkg -l libgtk-3-0 ?
<pitti> this looks too similar to be a mere coincidence
<hggdh> pitti: ii  libgtk-3-0                                     3.1.6-0ubuntu2                                 GTK+ graphical user interface library
<hggdh> and apport also reported the same versions
<pitti> ok, thanks
<hggdh> seb128: no, it does not happen every time. I am still trying to zero in
<hggdh> seb128: what if we go ahead and close it pending a repeat?
<seb128> well set it to incomplete maybe and wait to see if it happens again
<hggdh> k
<seb128> hggdh, did it happen with the new version or did apport run with the new version but maybe reporting a segfault from the previous session?
<hggdh> seb128: it *might* have happened. I usually clean up /var/crash before rebooting; it might have happened in between
<rodrigo_> jibel, so, you get the crash in g-s-d at login?
<jibel> rodrigo_, yes, so it may crash on shutdown. but it doesn't crash if I launch it manually once the session started.
<hggdh> rodrigo_: additional yes from here ;-)
<seb128> pitti, "shrug"
<seb128> ERROR: connecting to Launchpad failed: [Errno 185090050] _ssl.c:340: error:0B084002:x509 certificate routines:X509_load_cert_crl_file:system lib
<seb128> pitti, did you see that before?
<pitti> erk
<pitti> seb128: not that I remember; try purging the cache?
<seb128> ok
<Daviey> seb128: seeing that with pull-lp-source ?
<seb128> Daviey, no, seeing that with the retracers ;-)
<james_w> seb128, oneiric?
<Daviey> *sigh*
<seb128> but they use launchpadlib
<james_w> hmm
<seb128> james_w, no, it's a natty chroot
<Daviey> seb128: well i'm seeing that consistently with pull-lp-source.. so most certainly a major issue.
<james_w> fta saw that and it was fixed by downgrading python-httplib2
<jibel> seb128, bug 797281
<seb128> james_w, ok, I'm lying
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797281 in python-httplib2 "LP API broken in oneiric with python-httplib2 0.7.0-1" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797281
<jibel> seb128, ^
<seb128> james_w, it's likely the issue comes from the retracing environment which is oneiric
<Daviey> thanks jibel
<seb128> let me downgrade it in the chroot
<seb128> thanks james_w jibel
<rodrigo_> jibel, hggdh: doesn't happen here, so you might have something different
<hggdh> rodrigo_: we certainly have something different -- bad luck ;-)
<seb128> well that's a segfault on session closing
<rodrigo_> :)
<hggdh> rodrigo_: I will delete the crash report, and reboot/relogin, and see what happens
<seb128> we should really filter those out from apport in some way
<pitti> chrisccoulson: any chance you could do https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubufox/default-homepage-override/+merge/63121 soon? I'm slowly getting to the point where I need it
<chrisccoulson> pitti - sure, no problem
<chrisccoulson> i've got another merge to look at too
<pitti> mpt: offering capplets in a unity lens> ooh, my hero!
<pitti> mpt: that's exactly what I was whining about as well
<pitti> mpt: the shell bolted into the session menu has always felt like a hack to me
<seb128> Daviey, pitti, jibel, james_w: thanks, downgrading python-httplib2 worked!
<mpt> pitti, to be fair, I think he/she was looking at g-c-c in 11.04 and thinking that 11.10 would also just be launchers, not embedded settings windows
<seb128> pitti, capplets in a lens?
<chrisccoulson> having capplets in a lens doesn't really solve the problem of our system settings being a mass of random dialogs though does it?
<seb128> they are not in oneiric
<seb128> they are embedded in the gnome-control-center ui
<seb128> bug #797443
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797443 in gedit "[Oneiric] gedit crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_is_a()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797443
<seb128> oneiric retracing!
<pedro_> \o/!
<seb128> bring it on ;-)
<pitti> seb128: somewhere in unity, yes
<pitti> seb128: wohoo! thanks!
<jibel> seb128, Thanks!
<seb128> pitti, jibel: yw ;-)
<seb128> pitti, wasn't mpt's comment on this spec rather suggesting just adding a launcher to start the g-c-c binary rather than a lens?
<pitti> well, I might have misunderstood it then
<seb128> pitti, or I did ;-)
<seb128> in any case let's see what they come with
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will pin the old python-httplib in the retracer
<pitti> Good night everyone! time for sports and dinner
<seb128> 'night pitti
<rodrigo_> I was thinking about going out for some fresh air, but outside it's like an oven :(
<rodrigo_> but anyway, stopping now for a bit, later all
<didrocks> good evening
<seb128> hey didrocks
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, how was your day?
<seb128> you joined after most people leaved or took a break
<seb128> so low replies ;-)
<mpt> mvo, I've got a weird problem. USC 4.0.3 is just starting up with a blank grey window
<didrocks> seb128: was nice, just arrived in Berlin. Got some work done in ubuntu one sso connection for oneconf
<didrocks> I now start some fake syncing :)
<seb128> didrocks, great
<didrocks> seb128: how was your day?
<seb128> didrocks, good, nothing special
<kenvandine> anyone know why gsettings can't access schemas only installed in .local/share/glib-2.0/schemas ?
<didrocks> you didn't find 20 MB of additional on the CD by accident? :)
<seb128> didrocks, did a few GNOME updates, started looking to 3.1, and I set up oneiric retracers this afternoon
<didrocks> oh retracers -> nice!
<seb128> didrocks, no...
<seb128> kenvandine, desrt would know, ping him on #gnome-hackerS?
<bigon> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python-desktop dropping python-gnomeapplet is breaking revelation :/
<seb128> bigon, not dropping it would have broken it as well
<seb128> bigon, the new gnome-panel is on gtk3 and can't load gtk2 applets
<kenvandine> seb128, ok... i think it used to work :)
<seb128> the code needs to be ported to use gir
<bigon> :/
<bigon> I guess the applet part of revelation could be removed
<bigon> seb128: the problem here is that python-gnomeapplet is not migrated to dh_python2 and then breaks lot of things on existing installation
<bigon> well lot == pkg that use python-gnome
<seb128> bigon, didn't pitti fix that?
<bigon> well of pkg sharing the same namespace MUST use the same helper system
<seb128> bigon, http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-python/news/20110608T151738Z.html
<seb128> "   * debian/python-gnome2.postinst: Remove old __init__.py{,c} cruft from
<seb128>      pysupport, which causes bad imports after upgrades. (LP: #790613)"
<seb128> bigon, that was supposed to fix the python-gnomeapplet issue
 * didrocks waves goodnight
<didrocks> see you tomorrow (half connected probably)
<bigon> well just got hit now on my oneiric system
<bigon> purging python-gnomeapplet fix that
<seb128> hum
<seb128> the fix might fix leftover issues once uninstalled
<seb128> we should get gnome-panel to conflicts on python-gnomeapplet or something
<seb128> or Breaks it
<bigon> yeah maybe
<seb128> ok, I will add a Breaks
<bigon> btw there are still files installed in /var/lib/python-support/python2.7/gtk-2.0
<kenvandine> looks like it is because $HOME/.local/share isn't in $XDG_DATA_DIRS
<kenvandine> anyone know if that has changed?
<kenvandine> i am pretty sure it used to be
<seb128> kenvandine, blame it on robert_ancell
<seb128> random guess but seems a login manager environment reading sort of thing
<kenvandine> perhaps
<seb128> in fact no
<kenvandine> not important... just took me a bit to figure out why the gsettings work i had done was failing...
<seb128> I have an "env" from gdm and lightdm in case I needed to diff
<kenvandine> i think it is a xsession thing
<seb128> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/share/gnome:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/
<seb128> I think that's normal
<seb128> I don't think user dirs have ever been in the variable
<kenvandine> it was, we had documented that for making unity launcher changes
<kenvandine> but it was maverick/early natty time frame
<kenvandine> anyway, not important... just confused me :)
<kenvandine> my code works when installed :)
<kenvandine> annoying to have to install with root though to run from a checkout :/
 * kenvandine grabs some food
<seb128> well .local should work without relying on the environment
<Shred00> what happened to the ppa:Ubuntu-desktop/gnome3-builds repo?  it seems to be gone now.  any other repos for gnome3 on maverick?
<RoAkSoAx> hi guys... anyone know how can I disable automatic logging via gconftool?
<seb128> you can't
<RoAkSoAx> seb128: any way to do it from command line?
<seb128> the daemon use a key file on disk not gconf for its config
<seb128> edit custom.conf
<seb128> sed or whatever else the command line gives you
<RoAkSoAx> seb128: ok thanks!
<seb128> yw
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-16
<Laney> pitti: regarding lpi, it would be better to drop the BDs on libmono-2.0-dev and mono-gmcs entirely
<TheMuso> RAOF: Just reading the merge changelog entry for mesa confirms that specialists need to be handling that part of our system. :p I am sure others think that about audio etc.
<TheMuso> Thats one big lot of changes we carry.
<RAOF> TheMuso: There are fewer changes conceptually than appear there.  But yeah, we've got quite a lot of changes!
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Hi Robert, Have you had a chance to look at the suggestions at https://launchpad.net/bugs/793366 ?
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 793366 in lightdm "Sets $LANG to invalid value "de"" [Undecided,In progress]
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, Hi thanks for that.  I've had a quick look.  I'm just trying to get 0.4.0 out the door, and then it's my top priority for 0.4.1
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell: Ok, then I know. Let me know when you are ready to talk about it. Thanks!
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, will do
<pitti_> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<lifeless> bryce: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric - see the diffs section
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+localpackagediffs
<bryce> lifeless, sweet
<bryce> lifeless, 'Add comment'... interesting
<robert_ancell> RAOF, aha, I think I worked out why my unit tests don't work in a pbuilder...  xcb/xlib tries to connect over TCP/IP first right?  Any ideas how to make something running in a pbuilder definitely run my local X server and not connect outside of the pbuilder?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: I think that if you've got DISPLAY set appropriately (ie: to â:0â) xlib should be connecting locally before trying TCP/IP?
 * RAOF goes code diving.
<robert_ancell> it looks like it's using the xauth and connecting to my main xserver
<RAOF> Hm.  You could also try DISPLAY set to âunix:0â.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, I think the problem is while pbuilder uses a chroot, the chroot is not used for unix sockets.  So it always connects to the host socket
<RAOF> Well, another option would be to start xvfb on :99 or somesuch?
<robert_ancell> yes, that works.  So it prefers the host sockets, and falls back to local ones?  It's very weird
<robert_ancell> oh, no there will be a table in the kernel where the names of each socket are, and that name will be taken by the host first
<RAOF> I think the latter is correct, yes.
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour Monsieur Bacher
<pitti> hm, is there any CLI way to determine the default value of a gsettings key?
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> had a challenging training last night, was a bit harder than usual to get out of bed :)
<seb128> not sure about the default value
<seb128> you can ask on #gnome-hackers
<seb128> desrt should know ;-)
<pitti> ok, thanks
 * pitti checks the GLib API -- using GI would be fine
<pitti> hm, seems not
<pitti> ok, plan B then
<seb128> pitti, get out of bed at 5am is difficult, training or not ;-)
<pitti> hey, it's 6 am!
<seb128> lol
<seb128> same difference :p
<pitti> yeah..
<seb128> I'm on the late evening side nowadays but 6am would still be at least one hour too early for me ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hello
<seb128> robert_ancell, how is that new lightdm version coming? do you need testing on the current vcs code?
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm fighting pbuilder to run the unit tests
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw I read your meeting logs and set up oneiric retracers yesterday
<robert_ancell> seb128, that will be a huge help
<seb128> usually they are not that useful for GNOME that early in the cycle because we are too busy packaging to look at those bugs
<seb128> but it's true that for new product or things we are actively hacking on they are useful
<seb128> robert_ancell, sorry that it took a while
<robert_ancell> np
<seb128> pitti, btw do you want bugs about things that take apport down in the bug description formatting?
<pitti> seb128: yes, at least as a place to discuss them
<pitti> I wonder what's better, silently ignoring them or stopping on them to fix the bugs
<seb128> pitti, like
<seb128> "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/apport/crashdb_impl/launchpad.py", line
<seb128>  751, in _subscribe_triaging_team
<pitti> best might be to send email about the bugs and go on, I guess
<pitti> oh, please bug me for those, yes
<seb128> it was doing that yesterday one a bug where the \n got eaten after the previous line
<seb128> so the Distro..what next to another field rather to be on its line
<seb128> what->was
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> how do I set a package on hold? echo "binary hold" | dpkg --set-selection?
<seb128> selections
<seb128> or is there a better way?
<seb128> that seems to do it, let's keep that
<pitti> oh, I didn't know about that
<pitti> seb128: I usually use apt pinning
<pitti> seb128: for the retracer chroots?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, pitti
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> pitti, yes, to pin down python-httplib2 to a working version
<seb128> pitti, well, that's easier to do a one line command that to remember the pinning syntax and values to use :p
<pitti> right, I just didn't know about it
<seb128> learning every day ;-)
<seb128> I used before but I had to google to find it back :p
<seb128> robert_ancell, don't forget to make lightdm read .profile before rolling a new tarball :p
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah yeah.  Actually thats in the ubuntu package
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw is there any process that is likely to have private infos in its gdb dumps?
<seb128> robert_ancell, just to know if I need to be careful about making lightdm bugs public
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, they may contain passwords so don't make public until backtraced (and then should still check if is in trace)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I don't make bugs public before retracing in any case
<seb128> robert_ancell, bug #795686 just got a duplicate
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 795686 in lightdm "lightdm crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795686
<seb128>  xserver_get_server_type (server=0x0) at xserver.c:100
<seb128> that's all from recent retracing
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think it's fixed in 0.4.0
<seb128> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, rodrigo_: could one of you have a look to bug #797947
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797947 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashes frequently with X protocol error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797947
<rodrigo_> seb128, looking
<seb128> slangasek got a stacktrace but I've the feeling it's useless because the libxklavier handler traps the real error or something
<seb128> chrisccoulson knows better about the libxklavier issue than me I forgot the details
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<seb128> but I think those usually are not libxklavier bug, it's just trapping the error
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, what about you?
<seb128> can we turn that libxklavier handler off or something?
<LLStarks> ricotz, gnome-shell is making my laptop cry. how do i force notifications for critically low battery situations?
<bryce> seb128, sounds like we should
<chrisccoulson> unfortunately, the stack isn't much use there - the actual error code would be interesting (that's usually printed in the error message when it quits, and it should be on the stack as well)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you remind me why the stack is hijacked by libxklavier? was there anything we could patch to avoid that and get the actual errors?
<RAOF> LLStarks: I think you'd need to get gnome-power-manager to actually work.
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it sets it's own error handler, but it needs to do that so it can catch errors that it legitimately creates
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so we could have a version without that in a ppa that users could install to get the real stacktrace of their non libxklavier issues?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, rodrigo_: the actual error he gets is
<seb128> "The error was 'BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)'.
<seb128>   (Details: serial 102079 error_code 8 request_code 2 minor_code 0)"
<seb128> he said he usually gets it once a day on workspace switching
<rodrigo_> ugh, those are usually on the X stack, right?
<chrisccoulson> request code 2 is ChangeWindowAttributes, which doesn't match what is in the stack. so the actual error occurred earlier on :)
<chrisccoulson> i think it would be useful to see the stack with --sync
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I hate those
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, usually they turn to be issues on the client side
<seb128> chrisccoulson tracked a few of those back then when he still had time for desktop work ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you comment on the bug asking what you need?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would rebuilding libxklavier without the signal handler help?
<seb128> it seems that handler gets in the way most of the time, it turns out that those issues are often not libxklavier ones :p
<LLStarks> raof: as if the low-capacity warnings weren't depressing enough. thanks though.
 * pitti -> dentist, bbl
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I just discovered evolution-settings
<seb128> it's quite nice, you just enter your email and password, it figures all the account settings for you
<seb128> servers, etc
<rodrigo_> seb128, but the UI is horrible, or it was, haven't run the 3.0 version
 * rodrigo_ runs it
<rodrigo_> yes, as horrible as it was :)
<seb128> right, but the "new" dialog is just nice
<seb128> i.e just having to enter your email and having all the server details figured for you
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, mcrha fixed the "wrong time is displayed in the meeting reminder dialogs" ;-)
<seb128> it was a typo in a gconf key name
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, that's very nice, what I don't like is the main UI, the list of accounts
<seb128> it was not seeing that the system tz is used and reading the gconf value
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, I was not suggesting the dialog is nice, just the "add an account" part
<seb128> it should be the first run dialog imho :p
<seb128> just enter your email and password and we done
<seb128> we->be
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<rodrigo_> need to run some errands, bbiab
<jasoncwarner> morning EU folks.
<seb128> jasoncwarner, evening .au ;-)
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128
<seb128> jasoncwarner, how are you?
<jasoncwarner> so, uh, I think I, like, screwed up my machine?
<seb128> again?
<jasoncwarner> ;)
<seb128> what did you do this time? ;-)
<jasoncwarner> I just updated and when I rebooted it put me into Unity-2d with no option to go back to Unity
<jasoncwarner> I'm thinking my machine now thinks I don't have the necassary hardware to run it? I'm nvidia on that test machine
<jasoncwarner> (this is oneiric, fyi)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, right, didrocks mentioned that linux 3 screwed nvidia yesterday or the day before
<jasoncwarner> gah!
<jasoncwarner> ok... so I'm just in a waiting period now until that gets sorted? or is there something I need to do to get it fixed?
<seb128> jasoncwarner, check with tseliot he made nvidia updates yesterday
<seb128> jasoncwarner, otherwise didrock's workaround was to boot the previous kernel
<jasoncwarner> seb128: but...but...but...3 is newer than "previous" kernel...it has to be better?
<tseliot> jasoncwarner: can you boot in recovery mode?
<bryce> jasoncwarner, not really a matter of better... if the kernel ABI changes, nvidia has to be rebuilt else it won't interface with the kernel properly
<jasoncwarner> tseliot: I can boot, and I boot into unity-2d...I'll check recovery mode when I go back upstairs (test machine is not right next to me right nwo...non-ideal physical layout :( )
<seb128> jasoncwarner, it's clearly better, it's getting ride of that boring 3d, soon you will be back in real command line ;-)
<tseliot> jasoncwarner: you could control you machine with ssh ;)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, having to take stairs to switch between computers seems good physical exercise at least :p
<tseliot> hehe
<jasoncwarner> seb128: tis true, though, if you've seen me lately, how could one think I need _more_ excercise?! (as a gentle reminder to seb128, 2012 objectives are being written this week...respond with care :) )
<jasoncwarner> tseliot, seb128 mentioned that you rebuilt nvidia drivers yesterday or so? can I pull those down somewhere?
<seb128> jasoncwarner, DOH ;-) (indeed!=
<tseliot> jasoncwarner: just make sure that you have nvidia-current 275.09.07 and the linux-headers for your kernel
<tseliot> jasoncwarner: that would be a first step. Then I'd like to see the X log, dmesg and the output of dkms status
<jasoncwarner> ok...let me go upstairs..be back in a bit..thanks
<jibel> jasoncwarner, there is bug 798007 today with mesa and nvidia, even with the latest nvidia you'll fallback to 2d.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798007 in mesa "[Oneiric] Latest mesa (7.10.3) breaks 3D with nvidia-current" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798007
<seb128> oh, so it's RAOF breaking things!
<alex3f> hello, any vala god here?
<seb128> try #vala on irc.gnome.org
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nice, your accountsservice patch has already been uploaded to debian
<seb128> ups
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<alex3f> thanks seb128
<seb128> alex3f, yw
<mvo> alex3f: hey! what are you up to with vala? just curious?
<seb128> oh, a mvo, hey mvo ;-)
<mvo> hey seb128
<alex3f> hi mvo :) I'm still stuck at PackageKit + gi + GPtrArray + pygobject :(
<alex3f> and I wanted to write the same code I'm running in python, but in vala
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner
<alex3f> to see if the problem isn't inside PackageKit instead of gobject-introspection
<mvo> alex3f: aha, ok. good luck, your branch is *still* on my high importance todolist, but today I will finally review/merge, I'm sure
<mvo> alex3f: *nod*
<alex3f> np, after the merge, I'll bring the other two left things
<mvo> \o/
<alex3f> haven't got the time either *nod*
<seb128> pitti, wb
<tseliot> jasoncwarner: what jibel said is correct. So, as a quick fix, I guess you can downgrade mesa
<seb128> pitti, do you know what happened to the daily iso yesterday?
<seb128> where is the extra space use coming from?
<seb128> there daily-live doesn't have isos from < 15 to diff the manifest lists
<rodrigo_> seb128, my or chrisccoulson's patch?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yours
<soren> seb128: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033495.html perhaps?
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, can you sync it then?
<LLStarks> seb128, hybrid iso prep work?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> LLStarks, soren: that email said it would take an extra meg
<seb128> or did I misread it?
<soren> seb128: No, you're right.
<LLStarks> 1MB. still contributing though.
<seb128> right, though we go from 710 to 720mb there
<soren> seb128: Ah, and that would only be starting today.
<soren> seb128: And from yesterday->today, it grew 1 MB.
<seb128> it's something else
<soren> Yeah.
<pitti> seb128: I wonder myself -- today we dropped tomboy and a bunch of libs, and yet it didn't shrink
<pitti> it even grew by 1 MB or so
<seb128> pitti, no we didn't
<seb128> pitti, tomboy etc are still in the current build
<pitti> ??
<seb128> well tomboy is in the manifest
<ogra_> pitti, you uploaded to late for the iso build
<pitti> ah, darn
<seb128> $ grep tomboy oneiric-desktop-i386.manifest
<seb128> tomboy	1.6.1-0ubuntu4
<seb128> pitti, ^
<soren> seb128: We still have the build logs, though.
 * ogra_ was also just looking for tomboy in his manifests 
<seb128> next build I guess
<pitti> I did that first thing in the morning
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/1.229
<LLStarks> speaking of the hybrid iso... will zsync work fine?
<pitti> no, the manifest does have 1.229
<ogra_> weird
<seb128> not so weird, didrocks ran into a similar case recently
<pitti> I can't find it in germinate either
<soren> There's a whole bunch of perl things on the CD now that weren't there two days ago.
<seb128> pitti, cjwatson had an explanation the other day
<soren> ...and autoconf and automake..
<seb128> I think it's wrong timing issue
<pitti> seb128: I'll try a rebuild then
<seb128> like the lifefs build still had outdated datas or something
<pitti> soren: uh
<pitti> soren: there's also some 5 MB of new mono bits on it
<soren> pitti: Really? didn't spot that yet.
<seb128> well those were the 700 to 710 mb though
<seb128> that's something new
<seb128> soren, can you pastebin the diff?
 * pitti sighs -- 25 MB growth in just a few days, after all the hard work of getting it from 730 to 698
<soren> A whole bunch of erlang stuff was added.
<pitti> oh, couchdb?
<soren> seb128: I'm working on making it more readable.
<seb128> soren, thanks
<pitti> desktopcouch is back
<soren> desktopcouch!
<soren> Heh :)
<pitti> for xdiagnose
<seb128> desktopcouch is on the CD
<seb128> bah
<pitti> whcih also pulls in python-distutils-extra, and toolchain bits
<pitti> xdiagnose                        | xdiagnose                        | x11-common (Recommends)                  | Bryce Harrington <bryce@ubuntu.com>
<seb128> bryce, !!! ;-)
<pitti> bryce: ^ could this not use desktopcouch?
<soren> There we go.
<pitti> bryce: also, I guess the python-distutils-extra dependency is unnecessary? (it's a build time tool)
<pitti> oh, also uses python-gtk2
<seb128> could be tjaalton's fault, he did the recent xorg upload ;-)
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627891/
<pitti> seb128: I have a feeling that xdiagnose actually came from us, not from Debian
<pitti> above pastebin is the delta from alpha-1 to today's daily
<seb128> +  [ Bryce Harrington ]
<seb128> +  * apport/source_xorg.py:
<seb128> +    - Move Failsafe-X out of the xorg package to xdiagnose
<seb128> +xorg (1:7.6+7ubuntu1) oneiric; urgency=low
<seb128> +
<seb128>  
<seb128> I guess
<pitti> hm, that delta doesn't have the xorg bits yet
<pitti> I suppose the alternate was built before that got published?
<seb128> pitti, that was uploaded on tuesday
<seb128> so that would be weird
<pitti> apt-get source xdiagnose -> no trace of couch there, hmm
<soren> http://paste.ubuntu.com/627892/
<soren> If you scroll down to line ~1700 or thereabouts..
<soren> You see the stuff getting downloaded. Scroll down to see where the gaps are to see what was only downloaded now, but not two days ago.
<soren> I've cheated a tiny bit (removed a few lines here and there to make things line up), but it's mostly accurate.
<pitti> seb128: oh, xdiagnose 0.3 FTBFSed
 * pitti looks to fix
<seb128> soren, the perl stack is pulled in by python-distutils-extra it seems
<pitti> I'll get that fixed, too
<seb128> it's all down to the xorg issue
<soren> seb128: Yup.
<tjaalton> seb128: ah, so xdiagnose pulls a lot of stuff?
<tjaalton> meh
<pitti> tjaalton: it's all just an error, not required
<tjaalton> pitti: cool
<pitti> it doesn't even need pysupport/dh_python, there are no python modules
<RAOF> tseliot: Yeah, you sneakily uploaded a new non-multiarched nvidia-current while I wasn't looking. :)  I've updated the Breaks, and I'll fix the armel build, and upload.
<seb128> soren, thanks for the pastebin dual column thing ;-) but yeah, it's all down to one issue it seems
<seb128> so let's wait for pitti to fix it and trigger a new iso build later in the day
<tjaalton> pitti: the new xorg upload should actually save a few kb since -video-all pulls in fewer drivers now :)
<soren> seb128: Sure thing. I was in the mood for a bit of detective work, apparently :)
<seb128> ;-)
<tseliot> RAOF: yes, thanks. I'll make sure nvidia and fglrx are ready soon so that we won't have to worry about this any more
<pitti> bryce: I push my changes to lp:ubuntu/xdiagnose; is that ok?
<RAOF> tseliot: The Breaks: will be unversioned this time; once we know what versions of the packages support multiarch we can stick the appropriate versioning on there.
<pitti> uploaded 0.4
<seb128> pitti, danke
<tseliot> RAOF: right, as you explained on launchpad. It's a sensible choice, so that we don't have to rebuild mesa every time
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you plan to fix other issues in accountsservices or do you need feedback from kees on your comments?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I have a patch for upstream, about the -- thing Kees comments on, should be pushing it as soon as mclasen approves it
<rodrigo_> seb128, apart from that, yes, need feedback from Kees
<seb128> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you add a pointer to your patch and reassign to kees, setting as New?
<seb128> not sure if he will notice comments otherwise
<seb128> ok, lunch time
<seb128> bbl
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, as soon as I push it, since mclasen told me it looked ok yesterday
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, just needed some more testing, which I've done today
<dpm> pitti, chrisccoulson, a bunch of Natty langpacks + Firefoxes have been tested -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA - We don't have feedback for all languages, but as discussed, we need to upload them all to make sure FF appears translated. This is just a heads up that the testing period from the translations side is over, and that the langpacks can be uploaded
<chrisccoulson> dpm - ok, thanks. they need to wait for the firefox release though
<dpm> chrisccoulson, yeah, yeah, this was just a fyi that langpacks are ready to go
<chrisccoulson> dpm - thanks :)
<pitti> dpm: ah, thanks; so I guess we can wait a little longer until ffox is ready
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad things have gone smoothly :)
<dpm> chrisccoulson, np :) do you know roughly when the FF release is planned?
 * pitti does another xdiagnose upload to actually make the package work
<chrisccoulson> dpm - it's meant to be june 21st, i'm not sure if that will slip yet as they did 2 new beta's this week
<dpm> chrisccoulson, ok, thanks
<chrisccoulson> so, it looks like they've done their release build already
<chrisccoulson> so i'd imagine we're still on for the 21st
 * pitti ports xdiagnose to pygi while he is at it, and the project is still small
<pitti> bryce: FYI, I ported xdiagnose from obsolete pygtk2 to PyGI with GTK3, and pushed to ubuntu:xdiagnose; but this doesn't build right now, I need to fix python-distutils-extra first (which I'll do now)
<mpt> mvo, hi, I'm getting a blank grey window whenever I launch USC 4.0.3. Do you have time to help fix it? :-)
<mvo> mpt: wehh - does ps afx show another running s-c that is for some reason sstale?
<mpt> mvo, no, just the one
<mpt> 21074 ?        Sl     5:34 /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/software-center
<mvo> mpt: and if you kill that (kill 21074 on the terminal)
<mvo> ?
<mpt> mvo, when running it from a terminal I get the grey window, but the terminal command returns, which seems odd
<mpt> mvo, killing that process closes the window
<mpt> oh, and now relaunching it works fine
<mpt> weird
<mvo> mpt: yeah, so the problem is that one software-center was stuck for some reason (would be nice if you could mail me .cache/software-center/softwarecenter.log)
<mvo> mpt: but it had a dbus server still running, so the other s-c tried to contact the dbus server of the hanging ne and exited
<mpt> mvo, logs sent
<cjwatson> LLStarks: zsync should continue to work just fine
<cjwatson> pitti: have you folks debugged the CD size growth problems I saw in scrollback, or is there more to do?
<seb128> cjwatson, it's debugged
<seb128> cjwatson, should be fixed or will once things build
<cjwatson> ok
<pitti> cjwatson: the ones for the perl and couchdb/erlang bits, yes
<pitti> cjwatson: not yet the mono growth
<seb128> do we have the manifests from previous week somewhere?
<seb128> just to diff what got pull off and in with the updates
<seb128> well I guess diffing with alpha1 could work
<seb128> it's just easier to work on a smaller diff
<cjwatson> seb128: you might be able to find them by going to http://{cardamom,kapok}.buildd/~buildd/LiveCD/oneiric/ubuntu/ from a DC machine
<cjwatson> depends how long ago
<seb128> cjwatson, ok, thanks
<seb128> cjwatson, should be around a week or less
<cjwatson> seb128: also, the build logs have enough information to reverse-engineer the manifest, more or less
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/oneiric/ubuntu/
<cjwatson> we should probably log that properly somewhere
<pitti> cjwatson, seb128: also, diff to alpha-1 is not too hard to read, I think: http://paste.ubuntu.com/627891/
<pitti> (that's not a live .manifest diff, though, but an alternate; but it's more actionable)
<pitti> ssl.SSLError: [Errno 185090050] _ssl.c:340: error:0B084002:x509 certificate routines:X509_load_cert_crl_file:system lib
<pitti> oha
<pitti> seb128: I just got that from lp-project-upload
<pitti> seb128: wasn't that the one you got in the retracers as well?
<pitti> httplib2 downgrade?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<seb128> pitti, downgrade python-httplib2 to the natty version
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> yw
<pitti> that helped
<pitti> bryce: FYI, p-distutils-extra fixed, so ubuntu:xdiagnose bzr head is good to go
<seb128> go pitti go
<seb128> pitti, once those are built can you do an iso spin?
<pitti> pygified GTK3 xdiagnose, here you come!
<pitti> seb128: the xdiagnose package with the dependencies fix is already published
<pitti> so I'll start one in a few minues, yes
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> I wanted to do the GI port as a separate upload
<seb128> cjwatson, is there a way to chroot in a daily-live iso?
<seb128> (I'm trying to see if I can automate rdepends calls from a script)
<cjwatson> well, you can loop-mount the ISO and then loop-mount casper/filesystem.squashfs?
<cjwatson> if you have fuse privileges on the relevant system you might even be able to do that without root using grub-mount :-)
<cjwatson> pitti: can you wait for parted 2.3-6ubuntu1 before spinning new ISOs, please?
<cjwatson> might as well have a system that's vaguely installable
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks, that works fine ;-)
<seb128> (doing loop mounting, I didn't try grub-mount)
<seb128> try grub-mount next just to see ;-)
<pitti> cjwatson: sure
<pitti> so, in an hour
<pitti> sounds like lunch break :)
<seb128> enjoy
<cjwatson> seb128: it's not entirely POSIX-compatible, but it's fine for read-only work
<cjwatson> (well, it never will be entirely POSIX, given that it will never support writing ...)
<seb128> cjwatson, I just want an easy way to do rdepends list for gconf, gtk2 and some other things on the CD image
<seb128> so read only is fine ;-)
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<fta2> hi, after an upgrade+reboot, i ended up with unity-2d
<fta2> oh, unity_support_test crashed
<fta2> known already?
<seb128> fta2, nvidia?
<fta2> yes
<seb128> yes, known
<fta2> ok, good
<fta2> well, sort of
<pitti> seb128: FYI, building new ubuntu alternate/desktop images now
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<sandy|lurk> seb128: howdy, just heard the news about Tomboy on the CD
<seb128> sandy|lurk, hey
<sandy|lurk> seb128: looked a bit, only issue appears to be that the gconf property editors library has some widgets (that we don't use) that depend on gnome-sharp and bring all that stuff in
<sandy|lurk> seb128: so we can either just copy the widgets we use into Tomboy source, or see if the gconf-sharp maintainer will just remove that stuff and do a new release
<seb128> sandy|lurk, right, gconfpeditor is in libgnome2.24-cil which brings the whole old gnome stack in
<sandy|lurk> seb128: is there a timeframe that would make this really convenient for you?
<sandy|lurk> or are we already dropped from the CD so it doesn't matter when we do it? :-P
<seb128> sandy|lurk, you can't really remove the depends, it would break the api compability
<seb128> sandy|lurk, there is no decision taken about dropping tomboy from the CD once it's ported to new apis
<sandy|lurk> seb128: I guarantee you that no existing app uses the gnome-sharp-dependent peditors
<sandy|lurk> but yeah, we'll just bundle, it is a tiny amount of code
<sandy|lurk> seb128: sorry, I didn't understand that last bit
<sandy|lurk> I mean, we can get rid of those dependencies without even porting to gsettings
<sandy|lurk> and then just port to gsettings when the mono bindings are stable/released
<sandy|lurk> since you guys are continuing to ship gconf
<seb128> sandy|lurk, the main issue is that it brings libgnome, ui, bonobo, etc in now so yeah use gconf rather than gconfpeditor would be nice
<seb128> but I though rodrigo checked with you previous cycle and that you said there was no plan to port to gconf, but rather to gsettings directly when it will have bindings...speaking of which do you know when mono will get gsettings bindings?
<sandy|lurk> seb128: I believe knocte on the banshee team is planning to have that by the end of the cycle
<seb128> sandy|lurk, sorry, I meant that we didn't decide to drop tomboy (yet), if it stops pulling old libs in we can put it back
<sandy|lurk> but if it's not released, and they bundle or something, we wouldn't want to be stuck doing the asme
<sandy|lurk> great :-)
<sandy|lurk> we'll fix asap, hen
<sandy|lurk> gtg, baby calling
<seb128> sandy|lurk, we might have other discussions during the cycle to drop mono from the CD though since one options that would bring us the CD space we need (having 2 GTK stacks and some other things put us out of budget)
<seb128> sandy|lurk, but that's nothing done and that will be only if we find no other way to solve the issues we have
<sandy|lurk> :-(
<seb128> sandy|lurk, thanks for checking with us on the tomboy situation ;-)
<seb128> sandy|lurk, well I'm pretty sure there will be quite some push back on dropping mono if we suggest it so that's not done, it would not be the first cycle where it's suggested and doesn't happen so let's see
<chrisccoulson> heh, is deja dup trying to frighten me in to backing up my files?
<chrisccoulson> "In the case of a disaster, you would be able to recover them from that backup"
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> yeah, if you don't opt-in mterry will make sure a disaster happens to your laptop at the rally ;-)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, exactly.  :)  You hit the new "tell non technical users about backups" feature.  Should have only shown after a month from updating to 19.2 though...
<seb128> deja-dup apparently backuped my datas yesterday morning, I didn't notice anything out of the notify-osd bubble to say that it finished doing a backup
<mterry> seb128, good...?
<seb128> mterry, yes, that's exactly what I'm waiting from a backuper, just be quiet and do the job ;-)
<mterry> seb128, wait until you've successfully restored to say it did it's job ;)  not that I expect something to go wrong, but that's the crux of the biscuit
<seb128> mterry, I just wish it was telling me somewhere when he last backup-ed things with success
<mterry> seb128, it does, go to the preference screen
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I did
<seb128> g-c-c using 100%cpu now
<mterry> The overview page should have a line "Last backup:"
<seb128> indeed
<mterry> seb128, you get that too?  I was wondering what was going on
<mterry> seb128, so did your "indeed" mean that you now see the "Last backup:" line?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it says "today"
<mterry> seb128, awesome.  I assume the g-c-c issue is due to the gtk3 bump...
<seb128> it must have been this morning and not yesterday I got the notification, I was not sure ;-)
<seb128> mterry, it does eat cpu when switching between categories
<mterry> seb128, I get it eating cpu just sitting on a preference screen too
<mterry> bad enough that compiz blacks it out
<seb128> #6  0x0040a357 in icon_info_ensure_scale_and_pixbuf (icon_info=0xb2814308,
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I'm wondering if there is some icon it's busy scaling or something
<chrisccoulson> the evolution messaging indicator only shows a count for the main inbox doesn't it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, correct
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm just wondering what to do for thunderbird
<seb128> mterry, yeah, seems gtk related, either theme or icons
<seb128> chrisccoulson, check the spec or with mpt perhaps?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the spec says - name should be set to to the name of the mailbox. If (and only if) there is more than one mailbox with the same name, the mail program should disambiguate them using the account name if possible, e.g. âInbox (Home)â vs. âInbox (Yoyodyne)"
<chrisccoulson> which is how m_conley has already done it
<chrisccoulson> but i'm thinking that if we only show a count for the inbox, then having "Inbox" in the menu seems a little redundant
<seb128> the screenshot shows other boxes on the wiki though
<chrisccoulson> mpt ^^ :)
<seb128> "one message source item for each mailbox that contains new messages concerning you"
<seb128> says the wiki
<seb128> with a maximum of 6
<chrisccoulson> ok, so it seems that evolution is not compliant with the spec :)
<seb128> so I guess it should display the folder and count for folders with messages
<seb128> seems not
<chrisccoulson> i think thunderbird does the right thing then ;)
<m_conley> points! :D
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<seb128> well done guys ;-)
<mpt> chrisccoulson, it depends whether you are able to get new-messages counts for individual Thunderbird folders. If you can, show them as separate items. If you can't, show a single count.
<chrisccoulson> mpt - ah, ok. thanks
<chrisccoulson> shouldn't it be "if you can't, then fix it so you can"? ;)
<seb128> well, evo does neither of those
<seb128> it shows a single count but which is the inbox one
<seb128> not the unreads count
<pitti> seb128, cjwatson: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20110616.1/ -> back to the previous 709 MB, yay
<seb128> \o/
<pitti> that's still 10 MB more than we had a couple of days ago :/
<seb128> -libgnome2-0	2.32.1-0ubuntu3
<seb128> -libgnome2.24-cil	2.24.2-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libgnomecanvas2-0	2.30.3-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libgnomecanvas2-common	2.30.3-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libgnomeui-0	2.24.5-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libgnomeui-common	2.24.5-0ubuntu1
<seb128> \o/
<mterry> yay
<seb128> -libbonobo2-0	2.32.1-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libbonobo2-common	2.32.1-0ubuntu1
<seb128> -libbonoboui2-0	2.24.5-0ubuntu1
<pitti> oh, and tomboy and old libs are gone now, and it still didn't shrink
<pitti> so something else must have grown again, too
<seb128> pitti, no, they are small
<seb128> it's like a 1mb win which is what the iso format switch used
<pitti> it seems cruft piles up faster than we can take it away :/
<pitti> ah, that'd be the alignment, yes
<pitti> but tomboy alone is already 0.5 MB
<dobey> pitti: rhythmbox plz :)
<pitti> butyeah, the rest is small
<pitti> dobey++
<seb128> pitti, right, but those libs are some ten kbs
<pitti> I guess unseeding gbrainy is no biggue
<pitti> biggie
<seb128> it's not no
<pitti> so for banshee, who should we ask about this?
<pitti> i. e. who were the persons who advocated it for maverick/natty in the first place?
<pitti> I remember jcastro
<Laney> this is fast going from 'we can bring this back when you do the porting' to 'lets remove mono'
<rodrigo_> yes, jcastro was the biggest advocate :)
<pitti> Laney: mono itself would be a nice side effect of course, but my bigger concern is actually to get a GNOME 3 music player
<pitti> (well, and I love RB)
<pitti> but I don't want to make this a personal preference
<Laney> you've spoken to upstream about their gtk3 plans?
<chrisccoulson> i like banshee
<chrisccoulson> but i would also like space for thunderbird :/
<Laney> they said just today that it's hoped for this cycle
<pitti> we had a discussion about it some weeks ago, and there was apparently some progress with providing GI support for mono
<pitti> which would unblock the migration for banshee, tomboy, and all the other apps
<pitti> I haven't spoken to them since then
<Laney> 16/06 14:09:53 <knocte> sandy: migrating to gsettings is in the todo list of the bug to port to gtk3, hopefully will be finished by 2.2 (sept)
<seb128> Laney, well the issue is rather down to "would having rb and thunderbird" better than what we have now
<seb128> if we want thunderbird on we will need to make space
<seb128> we will need to make space without that
<seb128> and mono is one of the only things we could drop
<Laney> if there's nothing anyone can do then just come out and say it
<seb128> it would be unpleasant but better ideas are welcome
<pitti> well, the question should be which music player is better
<Laney> it doesn't sound like quality is the primary consideration
<seb128> pitti, we decided on that previous cycle and that's why we switched
<Laney> but space
<pitti> we wouldn't want a worse music player to get a different email client
<pitti> I'm not saying that RB would be worse; I don't personally think it is
<pitti> but we shouldn't just discuss that in terms of space
<seb128> Laney, yeah, it's not down to purely merit reasons, we need CD space :-(
<pitti> otherwise we'd ship abiword and not LibO
<seb128> well some people think the thunderbird brand and quality would be a strong value for Ubuntu
<seb128> I've no strong opinion either way
<seb128> Laney, btw is somebody looking at why the new mono is taking an extra 5mb on the CD?
<Laney> i didn't know it was
<Laney> what grew?
<seb128> I tried to have a look but out of noticing it has some new binaries I've no clue about I don't know why
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/627891/
<seb128> new binaries
<seb128> libmono-corlib4.0-cil (1.0 MB)
<seb128> libmono-system4.0-cil (0.7 MB)
<seb128> libmono-system-xml4.0-cil (0.4 MB)
<Laney> oh we probably have a dual 2.0/4.0 stack
<seb128> libmono-csharp4.0-cil (0.4 MB)
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/mono.html
<seb128> libmono-security4.0-cil (0.1 MB)
<Laney> stuff needs rebuilding to get it from 2.0 â 4.0
<Laney> directhex is handling it
<seb128> ok
<rodrigo_> is mono-introspect the project for bringing the new introspection bindings?
<seb128> so that should autosort itself over rebuilds?
<seb128> pitti, ^ well at least that's something
<Laney> the 2.0 stuff should fall off
<seb128> great
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<pitti> ah, thanks for the heads-up
<Laney> do rebuilds if you want, but start with core stuff first
<Laney> mono â libraries â apps
<pitti> so it's more or less an ABI transition
<Laney> everything in main should be without issue
<Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono210TransitionTODO
<sandy|lurk> should Oneiric alpha 1 work in vmware or vbox? do I get some 2D environment?
<Laney> probably best to coordinate with directhex before doing any rebuilds though
<pitti> i. e. "apt-cache rdepends libmono-corlib2.0-cil" shoudl be empty at some point?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it's a transition from CLR 2.0 to CLR 4.0
<seb128> sandy|lurk, not sure, it will fallback to unity-2d but it has some issues, you might be better trying a daily
<seb128> sandy|lurk, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
<rodrigo_> hey sandy|lurk
<seb128> has->had
<sandy|lurk> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<rodrigo_> sandy|lurk, is mono-introspect the project for bringing the new introspection bindings?
<sandy|lurk> hi rodrigo_
<sandy|lurk> rodrigo_: I don't know
<sandy|lurk> sorry, I'm totally out of the loop
<rodrigo_> sandy|lurk, and if so, is the github repo the correct one?
<rodrigo_> sandy|lurk, ah, ok, didn't get any answer from alan
<sandy|lurk> rodrigo_: the guys in #banshee (on gimpnet) are pretty on top of this, it seems
<broder> sandy|lurk: vmware doesn't support passing through the opengl support needed for unity, but vbox should if you install the guest tools
<Laney> try knocte
<sandy|lurk> maybe knocte knows?
<Laney> or more generally #banshee
<broder> sandy|lurk: (might need the non-open guest tools)
<sandy|lurk> broder: not a problem, I'm actually in OS X for work right now
<sandy|lurk> thanks
<rodrigo_> sandy|lurk, ok, trying
 * Laney covers his eyes
<seb128> \o/ the retracers natty and oneiric queues are empty
<pitti> nice!
<rodrigo_> hmm, https://github.com/mono/gtk-sharp seems to have support for 3.0, included gio
<cyphermox> seb128: dunno, I tried yesterday's daily (today seems to be missing amd64), and lightdm or session startup has issues
<cyphermox> sandy|lurk: rodrigo_: ^
<seb128> how so?
<seb128> it doesn't autologin but doing enter should work?
<cyphermox> after you login in lightdm, you get thrown back to the text cnsole
<pitti> cyphermox: did you select ubuntu-2d?
<cyphermox> isn't there a password?
<pitti> cyphermox: or tried on real iron?
<pitti> cyphermox: it's empty, just press enter
<cyphermox> pitti: iron
<rodrigo_> cyphermox, gnome-session crashing maybe?
<cyphermox> heh. maybe that's what I did wrong, I was convinced the password was "ubuntu"
<cyphermox> but yeah, gnome-session was crashing in some way even if I did startx after
<cyphermox> I ended up adding ubiquity to .xinitrc and startx again ;)
<charlie-tca> user = ubuntu, password = ENTER
<charlie-tca> hit ENTER, that is
<cyphermox> yeah ;)
<fta> mvo, hi, what exactly are those "short read on buffer copy for backend dpkg-deb" errors about?
<jibel> cyphermox, I can confirm what you said re lightdm login on live cd. If the user enters a password he's dropped to a console. nice
<cyphermox> jibel: well, the password *is* wrong ;)
<jibel> cyphermox, sure, but that's not a  reason to punish the user with a console only mode.
<cyphermox> jibel: indeed
<cyphermox> jibel: are you using today's image?
<jibel> cyphermox, yes
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> jibel: are you able to partition?
<jibel> cyphermox, 20110616.1
<jibel> cyphermox, haven't tried, the default test uses the whole drive
<jibel> cyphermox, anyway the default partitioning scheme works fine.
<cyphermox> jibel: that's what I'm trying to do too, but with the 20110615 image because 16 and 16.1 don't have amd64
<jibel> cyphermox, the fix for the partman is on 20110616.1
<cyphermox> ah!
<pitti> hm, is it just me, or is empathy jabber quite busted? I receive notifications, but the chat window just greys out and uses 100% CPU once you try to send something
<pitti> and it doesn't display conversations
<pitti> kenvandine: ^ is that related to the telepathy-indicator bits by chance?
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> shouldn't be... but perhaps
<kenvandine> actually no
<kenvandine> it couldn't cause the chat window to grey out
<pitti> ok
<pitti> well, if it works for other people, I'll some more debugging
<kenvandine> i haven't restarted since updating today...
<pitti> it's not new from today, it started a couple of days ago
<kenvandine> oh, interesting
<kenvandine> not sure... i am actually running empathy 3.1.2 now, which i think is still in depwait on the new folks to get out of binNEW
<pitti> NEWed
<kenvandine> pitti, thx :)
<rodrigo_> ugh, toothache is starting to be unbearable, bbl
<pitti> rodrigo_: get well soon!
 * pitti sympathizes with rodrigo_, was at the dentist today as well
<pitti> scary people!
<mvo> I do the vte merge now if nobody minds
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> hum
<seb128> stupid question, but can a source v1 package use a .tar.bz2 orig?
<seb128> it's ignoring the .orig.tar.bz2 and doing a native source build
<Laney> no, gz only
<seb128> bah
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: what's wrong with 3.0 (quilt)?
<seb128> pitti, I'm doing the unity update and it's full source in vcs
<pitti> seb128: bzr, bzr bd-do/uscan will automatically create a .gz from the .bz2, but that's not what we want, i guess
<seb128> oh and also I think whatever dx is using for their daily builds didn't like source v3
<seb128> hudson?
<pitti> ah
<seb128> well anyway I will tar xjf; tar czf
<pitti> I assumed it was GNOME now not releasing tar.gz any more
<pitti> gzip -cd tar.gz | bzip2 -9 > tar.bz2 should do, no reason to regenerate the .tar
<pitti> but anyway
<seb128> I guess that's what didrocks does usually
<pitti> if DX wants orig.tar.gz, why don't they release tar.gz?
<seb128> I think DX doesn't care about the format
<seb128> it's didrocks who does the packaging
<pitti> dinner, back for TB meeting
<seb128> but since he's offline I will just do that update and sort it with him later
<seb128> pitti, see you
<LLStarks> seb128, as per the discussion last night. the erlang, python dist, and couch stuff is gone again, right?
<seb128> LLStarks, hum, I was not sure yesterday for a discussion about that, we investigated this afternoon though and fixed it yes
<LLStarks> hehe timezones. thanks.
<seb128> ok, new unity uploaded to oneiric
<seb128> there is a launcher autohide bug though
<seb128> bug #798318
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798318 in unity "launcher autohidding is failing with 3.8.16" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798318
<seb128> so I've not uploaded as a sru yet
<seb128> but I've done a natty upload to https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
<seb128> if people want to test it
<seb128> dx is working on a fix for the issue and if no other bug is raised on oneiric we might get the sru done tomorrow
<LLStarks> will do. this is for sru2, right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> what is the ppa is the sru candidate
<seb128> since I've found the bug I pointed before I didn't bother uploading for SRU, we will need a patch for it so waiting on that
<seb128> so testing is welcome to make sure there are no other bug ;-)
<LLStarks> kinda sad that unatty needs such aggressive SRU fixes, but that's a 26 week dev cycle for ya
<dobey> sad because natty got firefox 5.0 as an sru? :)
<broder> i don't think there's anything sad about SRUs
<dobey> broder: only if you're a developer trying to get certain updates in :)
<broder> dobey: no, i think SRUs are great as an end user
<broder> and i think they're great for anybody who's not crazy enough to run dev releases (which is almost everybody)
<micahg> dobey: no, it will be a security update...
<micahg> dobey: the security team has the right to use proposed for extended testing and I will be taking advantage of that
<dobey> micahg: ah, i guess that's why i got it then. didn't see where it came from exactly. but alas
<micahg> dobey: it's only in -proposed at the moment (at least it better be :))
<dobey> broder: yes, but as a developer trying to get certain chanes into SRU, it can be a hassle. :)
<dobey> micahg: right, i'm pretty sure i have -proposed enabled and just forgot about it :)
<pitti> please someone say that they can read me
<micahg> pitti: I can read you :)
 * pitti haven't had a TB meeting yet where nobody at all turned up
<pitti> micahg: thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i can't read you ;)
 * pitti ^5s chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<bryce> pitti, awesome, thanks!
<pitti> hey bryce, good morning
<pitti> bryce: later I noticed that there's an lp:xdiagnose branch which looks like being the packaging branch
<pitti> I didn't see it at first, as there's no Vcs-Bzr:
<pitti> bryce: do you rather want to use this instead? I could replay the commits into that, and propose a merge (I can't commit to lp:xdiagnose)
<bryce> pitti, yeah I should add that
<bryce> pitti, it's both the main branch and packaging, I haven't split them out (perhaps they should?)
<pitti> bryce: if you split it, then we can just as well use the standard ubuntu:xdiagnose branch, I guess?
<pitti> bryce: but right now it is versioned as ubuntu native, so splitting the branch sounds too complicated to me; but it's your baby, set it up as you like
<bryce> pitti, yeah let's keep it simple.  I can give you commit access to lp:xdiagnose
<bryce> (I think...)
<bryce> pitti, actually, yeah just propose a merge, that's probably easiest
<pitti> bryce: done, https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/xdiagnose/oneiric/+merge/64886
<pitti> bryce: perhaps you can pull from lp:~pitti/xdiagnose/oneiric instead of merging, to retain a clean history
<bryce> pitti, ok
<bryce> pitti, thanks for converting to dh7 btw, that was on my todo list today :-)
<pitti> bryce: no problem, it was quite easy, and actually required to make the package work
<pitti> before it didn't install any of the upstream parts
<pitti> it's much easier now
<pitti> just a boilerplate standard python 4-line debian/rules
<pitti> TTFN, have a nice evening everyone!
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<bryce> pitti, night!
<cyphermox> hey bryce, i saw your email about the diffs between packages earlier, really nice :)
<bryce> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> oh yay, finally got nm-applet in more than one user at the same time.
<broder> ooooh
<cjwatson> looking at bug 797669
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 797669 in casper "No autologin on live session with lightdm" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797669
<cjwatson> seb128 says that the conffile will be /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf in the next update (it's currently /etc/lightdm.conf)
<cjwatson> I don't want to have to keep moving this around in casper and other bits of the installer - I'd rather wait for the location to settle and then use that
<cjwatson> when's that next update going to be?
<mterry> is empathy chat broken for anyone else?
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Robert said he plans updating this week, so likely uploaded today Australian EST.
<cyphermox> mterry: yes, empathy is broken majorly for me, too
<mterry> cyphermox, ever since the gtk3 update
<cyphermox> I try to type, it hangs; I kill chat windows, it eventually somewhat unfreezes and starts showing e.g. notifications
<cyphermox> ahh, thanks for closing the nm task on the 0.9 API bug
<cjwatson> TheMuso: OK, that's soon enough I guess then
<TheMuso> kenvandine: Just a heads up, it seems that services/Makefile is missing from configure.ac in your new libgwibber. I'd send a patch, but its so trivial that its quicker to let you know about it.
<TheMuso> However, I can send a merge proposal/patch.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-17
<kenvandine> TheMuso, i dropped that service now
<kenvandine> TheMuso, you can just build and run the client
<TheMuso> kenvandine: oh ok.
<kenvandine> TheMuso, so have you checked it out yet?
<TheMuso> kenvandine: Yeah but haven't got it to pull my twitter feed yet.
<vish> kenvandine: hi, around?
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Good morning!
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Seems you jumped ovev 0.4.0-0ubuntu1 in your recent upload...
<TheMuso> over
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yeah, it FTB in the PPA, so I just bumped the version
<micahg> robert_ancell: in the future, you can collapse the changelog for the archive upload
<robert_ancell> pitti, I finally got the regression tests to work in my pbuilder, but then they fail on the buildd!  So frustrating...
<micahg> the archive has separate source records, so you can upload the same version to the archive after it goes to a PPA (at least for the moment)
<robert_ancell> micahg, can I upload the older version?
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, looking
<micahg> robert_ancell: well, before you uploaded ubuntu2, you could've  uploaded an ubuntu1 with a collapsed changelog, at this point, it doesn't make sense, just something to keep in mind
<pitti> robert_ancell: 0.3.7-0ubuntu2 didn't run the test suite on build yet then?
<pitti> robert_ancell: for some reason there isn't a 0.4.0-0ubuntu1
<robert_ancell> pitti, no, I disabled it
<pitti> robert_ancell: so it failed in a PPA then?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, in the lightdm PPA
<pitti> as I don't see a failure in an ubuntu build
<pitti> ah
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/+archive/lightdm/+packages -> uh, maverick only
<robert_ancell> pitti, no that one's obsolete, see the comment
<pitti> ok, so there's no build log
<pitti> robert_ancell: did it only fail some particular test, or all of them (i. e. some problem with dbus setup)?
<robert_ancell> pitti, all of them failed, but I don't have enough info to work out why
<robert_ancell> pitti, any debugging tips to work it out?
<pitti> robert_ancell: didn't it give you an exception or g_critical or anythign that points out why?
<robert_ancell> pitti, one of the child processes in the test failed I think.  I'll have to upload a modifed package with debugging enabled to see why.  I was going to see if I can log into the buildds somehow and test before trying that
<pitti> robert_ancell: no, that's not possible
<robert_ancell> it's going to be really slow constantly uploading to a PPA to work out why it's failing
<pitti> you can only add some echos/printf()s, and keep throwing stuff into the PPA
<pitti> or try to reproduce locally, of course
<pitti> which kind of services does it try to talk to?
<pitti> you could try stopping X.org, ConsoleKit, system dbus, stop your network connection, and build in vt1
<pitti> pbuilder should already shield away the system bus, though
<pitti> so the most common causes for this are (1) no internet connection from buildds, and (2) the local host name can't be resolved
<robert_ancell> it seems to be failing when I run the fake xserver, it starts, but the SIGHUP never gets received from the test runner.  There will be a log on the disk somewhere, but I don't dump it out
<pitti> ah, the SIGHUP is sent by X.org to its parent to notify that it's ready
<pitti> robert_ancell: but it does work on real iron, i. e. lightdm sets up the signal correctly in general?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yeah, it works running as a service, in test mode, in a pbuilder, but not in a buildd
<robert_ancell> RAOF, can you decode this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/628286/.  It's from the GDM Xsession file.  I think it's obsolete and will always be ignored on Ubuntu
<RAOF> robert_ancell: It looks like it's trying to propagate the xkb symbols from XF86Config (which we don't have) in the case that /etc/X11/X isn't a symlink (which it is) and /etc/X11/X contains some sort of Sun string.
<RAOF> In short - that's not going to be run on Ubuntu.
<robert_ancell> yay! dropped
<robert_ancell> RAOF, one more, here is my sane Xsession that I'm going to use for LightDM http://paste.ubuntu.com/628288/.  Does it look like it makes sense?  Is the xmodmap stuff still applicable?
<RAOF> That looks fairly sane to me.
<RAOF> I think that there's still stuff that xmodmap does that no other tool does, so it's probably still applicable.
<pitti> please keep it
<pitti> breaking people's ~/.xmodmap files wouldn't be nice
<pitti> and it's a no-op for people who don't have it
<pitti> although mine is called ~/.xmodmaprc
<pitti> I'm not sure which part reads that, maybe something in g-settings-daemon
<robert_ancell> pitti, will do
<robert_ancell> pitti, I am away next week, can you and others keep an eye out for any major lightdm issues that crop up today and send to my gmail address.  I'll drop in tomorrow if it's important
<pitti> robert_ancell: can do, yes; enjoy your holiday!
<robert_ancell> pitti, thanks
<seb128> hey
<pitti> it's a Seb!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: can I annoy you with https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/ubufox/default-homepage-override/+merge/63121 again?
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<seb128> is the new unity working for people who upgraded?
<pitti> I didn't notice a difference so far
<pitti> so I guess that's a "yes" :)
<seb128> pitti, it's the new SRU candidate version I uploaded to oneiric, it's only bug fixes, you shouldn't notice a difference ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I did find a bug in the autohide though so I didn't upload as a SRU, waiting for a fix
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, will do that in a minute, sorry :)
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
<pitti> thanks!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> can everybody makes sure you update unity if you run oneiric and restart it?
<seb128> I would like to make sure there is no other bug before doing the sru ;-)
<mvo> dobey: hi! I will request a sync for pyinotify, you did a init_errno.patch for this that raises a proper OSError() if the init fails. this is done by upstream now as well, but the string is slightly different (but contains the same information, i.e. the errno and os.strerror). just FYI in case you need to update your code
<zyga> stgraber, ping
<mvo> zyga: he is most likely still sleeping, in the middle of the night for his TZ
<zyga> mvo, canada?
<mvo> yeah
<zyga> mvo, aww, ok
<zyga> mvo, perhaps you know how his sandboxing wrapper is called?
<mvo> arkose
<zyga> mvo, I want to isolate processes from internet
<zyga> awesome, thanks
<mvo> yw
<bigon> kenvandine: you have stolen the -1 revision of empathy package :(
<seb128> bigon, it's not like we could sync anyway
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, btw, just saw on my todo list the grepping for system-wide gsettings we talked about, for the gconf plugin in g-s-d, did you do it?
<rodrigo_> s/gsettings/gconf
<seb128> rodrigo_, not yet
<seb128> but seems low priority anyway?
<seb128> there is still quite some gconf rdepends
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, no hurry, the plugin should be working ok now
<seb128> I'm about to build a list of gconf and gtk2 rdepends
<seb128> on the CD I mean
<bigon> seb128: yeah I know, but for the telepahy ppa that's annoying
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, just wanted to know what was using desktop-wide settings, that would confirm the need to have the gconf plugin
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will have a look to that next
<rodrigo_> seb128, as I said, no hurry :)
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, around?
<seb128> rodrigo_, seems like libedataserver so evolution still use it
<seb128> rodrigo_, pidgin as well
<seb128> just to list 2 popular ones I've installed
<seb128> they use the http_proxy values
<rodrigo_> ugh, right, evolution
<seb128> rodrigo_, those alone are enough to justify needing it
<rodrigo_> we probably need to push evo port to gsettings
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, evo itself is enough
<rodrigo_> omg, what have I done to deserve this toothache :(
<seb128> rodrigo_, still having tooth issues?
<pitti> rodrigo_: what did they do to your teeth?
<pitti> sounds like they blew it?
<pitti> after treating cavities they should feel good again after a day..
<rodrigo_> pitti, they removed it, and put some stuff to fill the hole
<rodrigo_> and the 1st week I was perfect, but pain is getting worse every day
<rodrigo_> so not sure why I went to the dentist in the 1st place really :(
<pitti> maybe they forgot some pieces of the caries?
<rodrigo_> there was no caries, they removed a fake tooth I had which had broken and created some infection
<rodrigo_> so yeah, not sure what's up, I am supposed to have nothing infectable there
<rodrigo_> anyway, it's not too painful for now, let's hope it doesn't get worst
<cdbs> seb128: Wasn't 3.8.16 expected to get into -proposed?
<cdbs> of Unity, I mean
<seb128> cdbs, no
<cdbs> seb128: Its written as "SRU2" here: https://launchpad.net/unity/3.0/3.8.16
<cdbs> though that may be wrong
<seb128> cdbs, bug #798318 needs to be fixed first
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 798318 in unity "launcher autohidding is failing with 3.8.16" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798318
<seb128> cdbs, no point to push something which we know will not let in because it has a new bug
<cdbs> seb128: And I also noticed another regression, the window control buttons on the panel, occasionally get faded away under randomly occuring black boxes
<seb128> njpatel, ^
<cdbs> seb128, njpatel: I'm not sure, it may be an isolated case with me, and an upstream driver mess since I use the xorg-edgers PPA
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, hi
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, hi
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I have been looking at embedding system-config-printer in the new g-c-c, as we discussed at UDS
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, and the s-c-p window inside g-c-c will look horrible
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, so I was thinking about patching the printer panel in g-c-c to call s-c-p for adding printers and setting options
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, but s-c-p doesn't have any argument at all to be able to do that
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, that is -> s-c-p --add-printer or s-c-p --config "HP PhotoSmart"...
<njpatel> cdbs, it sounds like it (I've been running since yesterday and haven't seen it)
<cdbs> njpatel: http://imgur.com/f7FE0&RQJPw
<cdbs> njpatel: click the 'second picture' link to see the second one
<njpatel> cdbs, yeah, that's graphics corruption  fwict
<cdbs> njpatel: in the first pic, look at the window buttons. In the second one, look at the bfb
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, would it be possible to add that?
<njpatel> cdbs, I don't think this update causes that, but I can't be sure, of course, thanks to drivers being crap
<cdbs> njpatel: I'm running an Intel GPU, which one are you running btw?
<njpatel> cdbs, both intel and nvidia
<cdbs> probably its isolated to only the Intel driver?
<njpatel> cdbs, but on natty
<cdbs> njpatel: by both you mean optimus?
<njpatel> cdbs, no, I mean two systems, sorry
<njpatel> cdbs, running on fully updated natty, no PPAs
<njpatel> well, no important PPAs ;)
 * cdbs thought he found another friend who is dealing with the optimus mess
<njpatel> cdbs, heh
<rodrigo_> oh, got an answer from mkestner about https://github.com/mono/gtk-sharp: "Usable in a few known ports which are proceeding.  Unreleased as yet."
<rodrigo_> so at least now we know the status of the gtk# port
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, s-c-p can be called for adding printers via D-Bus, but probably only if a printer ID is supplied. Probably the best is patching s-c-p. Also newprinter.py has some debug command line calls to open an add-printer dialog. Perhaps you could get in contact with Tim Waugh and offer him patches to call the add-printer wizard and the properties dialogs separately, either by moving parts of s-c-p into a new Python library or by addin
<tkamppeter> g command line arguments to the s-c-p call, or by adding new calls to the D-Bus interface, like add printer without device ID, so that the wizard starts with the printer discovery, whatever is most convenient to you (probably the D-Bus thingy is the best and easiest.
<rodrigo_> the dbus interface might work, although if it doesn't have what we need, it'd be better to just add the command line args
 * rodrigo_ checks d-feet
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, all types of interfaces need work on s-c-p ... So choose the most convenient for your purposes.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, to contact Tim: twaugh at redhat dot com, please CC me.
<rodrigo_> ok, s-c-p service has NewPrinterDialog and PrinterPropertiesDialog calls, although they seem to crash scp-dbus-service
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, that must be a bug, patches welcome, best is to contact Tim.
<seb128> stupid question, but if I loop mount an image and chroot into it, can I mount a directory outside the chroot in some way?
<seb128> would be handy to write logs for my rdepends calls :-)
<seb128> I could use unsquashfs to unpack the livecd also but that's quite slow
<pitti> seb128: not this way around, but you can bind-mount a dir into the chroto
<pitti> e. g. /tmp/
<ogra_> seb128, you should be able to mount from another terminal
<ogra_> i.e. outside the chroot
<pitti> /tmp            /home/dchroot/lucid/tmp          none    bind    0 0
<pitti> ^ example from my fstab
<seb128> hum, when I tried it told me the mount was read only
<pitti> seb128: then /tmp/ in the chroot is exactly the same, you can even run X programs, etc.
<pitti> seb128: with bind mounting?
<seb128> hum
<pitti> sudo mount -o bind /tmp /your/chroot/path/tmp
<pitti> ought to be as easy as that
<seb128> pitti, indeed thanks, dunno what I did before
<seb128> pitti, I think I tried to create a log dir but it didn't let me mkdir since the mount is ro
<seb128> and it wouldn't mount to a non existant dir
<seb128> but using tmp works for what I've to do
<pitti> I generally find it very comfortable to do so, as this allows you to run X stuff
<pitti> i. e. I can test gnome stuff in my sid or lucid chroots
 * pitti lunch &
<seb128> coffee here
<seb128> restarting with the new unity and lightdm as well
<ogra_> bah, no robert ancell ...
 * ogra_ finally has lightdm to not die on login ....
<ogra_> saldy i now have to start it manually after boot :P
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, when you are back from lunch I would appreciate a SRU review from the new unity ;-)
<cjwatson> anyone mind if I upload lightdm to actually install its autologin PAM file?
 * cjwatson is working on making it work right on the live CD again
<seb128> cjwatson, go for it
<seb128> cjwatson, thanks for working on that ;-)
<cjwatson> thanks - just got it working
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> ok, so I've a script that give me daily iso rdepends for any binary in one command
<seb128> current iso has 63 libgconf2-4 rdepends
<seb128> 89 libgtk2.0-0 ones
<seb128> (binary rdepends)
<seb128> how do you guys prefer those lists to be maintained? copy in the etherpad? vcs? static list on a people url?
<seb128> or tagged bugs all the sources that need porting before the lts?
<seb128> I would lean toward using the etherpad or tagged bugs
<pitti> tagged bugs are better for long-term tracking, but harder to create
<pitti> I think for now an etherpad would do
<pitti> mvo: oh, merge-o-mania today? :-)
<seb128> pitti, \o/ danke for the SRU
<mvo> pitti: I was a bit lazy with merges so I thought I should make up for it today :)
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will probably dump the lists as it on the etherpad and start filing some tagged bugs for things that will need work
<mvo> lots of sync as well
<seb128> mvo, \o/
<mvo> *hint* *hint* ;)
<mvo> I can't wait for the day when LP lets me do it finally
<pitti> I thought I read on -devel that this might be next week already
<pitti> back in ~ 1.5 hours
<seb128> pitti, mvo: yeah, on the "diff with debian" discussion they said it will win a sync button next week
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<kenvandine> pitti, my empathy is doing the same thing now... after i rebooted last night
<davmor2> kenvandine: is that not theme and really slow typing rate?
<davmor2> s/not/no
<pitti> kenvandine: even with 3.1.2?
<pitti> kenvandine: I upgraded to that now, but since then nobody spoke to me on jabber
<kenvandine> davmor2, what do you mean?
<kenvandine> pitti, let me IM you :)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> see the bottom of the etherpad for a first gconf rdepends list
<seb128> is the format working for everybody?
<pitti> kenvandine: still the same problem apparently
<pitti> kenvandine: I got a notification, I click on your nick, I get an empty chat window
<davmor2> kenvandine: I upgraded to oneiric on my netbook, empathy is unusable,  the theme doesn't show up in the chat window and text input is really slow
<pitti> kenvandine: I blindly typed "hello", but neither see your text, nor mine
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> ok
<pitti> now the window grayed out
<kenvandine> davmor2, so you are seeing it too
<davmor2> kenvandine: indeed reported it last night
<kenvandine> ok, pitti was seeing it yesterday but i wasn't
<kenvandine> i had updated and restarted empathy, and all was fine until i rebooted
<davmor2> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/798440
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 798440 in empathy "empathy chat is ridiculously slow and shows no text on the default theme" [Undecided,New]
<fta> is there a way to put evolution(3) offline/online from a script?
<davmor2> pitti: try changing the theme to blue
<davmor2> that shows the text then it's still slow as hell though
<seb128> fta, no idea, ask on #evolution on irc.gnome.org
<pitti> davmor2: slightly better, but still hanging
<pitti> right
<davmor2> pitti: right but you do see things in the chat window then
<seb128> pitti, when did that start?
<davmor2> seb128: I clocked it last night
<kenvandine> it is pegging my CPU
<seb128> kenvandine, when did that start for you?
<kenvandine> it started for me after i rebooted last night, it was fine even with new empathy until i restarted my session
<seb128> could one of you try downgrading gtk3 to 3.1.4 and try again?
<kenvandine> i killed empathy and everything telepathy related after pitti mentioned it yesterday
<davmor2> kenvandine: on my netbook it causes the fan to go crazy so it is possibly doing the same thing to my system cpu too
<kenvandine> and started them back up and all seemed fine
<seb128> deja-dup has speed issues as well since recently
<seb128> seems gtk geometry computation slowness or something
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll try that
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: a couple of days ago, not sure
<seb128> pitti, can you try with gtk3.1.4?
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> danke
<seb128> pitti, btw http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/oneiric-desktop  see the bottom
<seb128> pitti, I will start filing tagged bugs for things I think we should do active work on
<pitti> seb128: splendid
<seb128> pitti, I will start filing tagged bugs for things I think we should do active work on
<seb128> ups
<seb128> wrong focus
<seb128> pitti, same list for gtk2 coming next
<kenvandine> seb128, gtk 3.1.4 seemed to have fixed it
<pitti> kenvandine: much better from my end with 3.1.4
<pitti> seb128: ^
<seb128> ok, what I though
<seb128> it's likely the same issue mterry has with deja-dup
<pitti> I just downgraded libgtk-3-0
<seb128> there is something slow in gtk 3.1.6
<pitti> not the other gtk+3.0 binaries
<seb128> let me check upstream bugs and git
<pitti> I'll try with git head
<Laney> what is the difference between indicator-applet and indicator-application? I cannot tell from the descriptions
<seb128> pitti, I asked on #gnome-hackers, not really a known issue
<seb128> Laney, one is an applet, i.e a gnome-panel loader
<pitti> seb128: I check git head then, and bisect
<seb128> Laney, the other one is an indicator
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<Laney> an indicator to display indicators?
<seb128> Laney, indicator-applet or unity are "loaders", they render indicators
<seb128> Laney, indicator-application is what render libappindicator clients, it's an indicator like the session, messages, etc ones
<seb128> Laney, the applet is a container if you prefer
<Laney> I get applet, it's application that is more confusing
<seb128> it's just an indicator which render libappindicators client icons
<seb128> pitti, can you join #gnome-hackers?
<seb128> pitti, will be easier than to split the discussion
<pitti> sure
<seb128> Laney, it could called indicator-newsystray :p
<seb128> be
<seb128> Laney, it's basically the indicator equivalent of the systray applet
<Laney> i thought thats what indicator-applet or unity were
<seb128> Laney, we have one extra layer compared to the systray in some way
<Laney> I guess I don't understand what an indicator to render indicators is
<seb128> Laney, the indicators render icons and those icons are packed in the applet
<Laney> how does this first indicator get rendered?!?!!?
 * Laney 's head spins around a bit
<seb128> Laney, each indicator render icons, all the indicators are packed in the panel by the applet
<Laney> hmm ok
<seb128> Laney, you could have one applet for indicator-application if you want, one for indicator-session, etc
<seb128> Laney, in the past we have 2 groups, session and me in one applet and the applications in another
<Laney> so it collates all of the app indicators into one place
<seb128> right
<seb128> well all or a defined set
<seb128> we have different applets
<seb128> -session, -complete
<seb128> but the one we use nowadays pack all the indicators
<Laney> but you still need something else to actually render the indicators
<seb128> that's indicator-*
<Laney> got it
<seb128> indicator-application is what renders the systray equivalents
<seb128> then it's packed in the panel by the applet
<seb128> Laney, you can install libindicator-tools if you want
<seb128> Laney, it has a standalone loader which load an indicator .so and display it on screen
<Laney> cool
<Laney> I only ask because I'm maintaining sparkleshare which has an indicator
<Laney> and I'd like to understand how it works (and maybe have it in Debian ... but GNOME 3)
<seb128> Laney, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators btw
<seb128> that can be useful to read
<seb128> Laney, there is a pkg-ayatana team in debian packaging that stack
<seb128> they didn't do gtk3 builds yet though
<Laney> saw that, but it didn't exaplin all the different parts clealy to me
<Laney> yep
<Laney> needs those for the new libappindicator apparently
<Laney> looks like gtk3 in unstable is new enough now though?
<chrisccoulson> somebody needs to rename the indicator stack, it's too confusing ;)
<Laney> heh
<seb128> Laney, yes, there is no specific gtk3 version required, not sure why the pkg-ayatana guys dropped the gtk3 builds
<Laney> better long descriptions would have been ok
<seb128> they basically merge on ubuntu
<Laney> seb128: it was only in exp when they did it I think
<seb128> ok
<Laney> only got to sid on 2011-04-10
<seb128> so yeah, somebody should tell them to bring that back ;-)
<Laney> is anyone working on indicators in gnome 3?
<fta> seems there's a typo in evolution.desktop, last line (from debian/patches/10_desktop_shortcuts.patch)
<mterry> Laney, for gtk3, yes.  for gnome3, no
<seb128> Laney, define gnome3? gnome-shell?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> like porting indicator-applet i guess?
<seb128> Laney, we aim at having GTK3 builds for the stack at the end of the month
<Laney> that will bring gnome shell support?
<seb128> no
<seb128> but I guess it would easy to write a .js loader
<Laney> but it's a prerequisite, right :-)
<seb128> that will make those work in gnome-panel3 though
<seb128> Laney, yes
<seb128> Laney, I guess it would be easy to write some .js for g-s to load indicators if you want to
<Laney> cool
<Laney> but if i'm just caring about myself then the panel is sufficient... *cough*
<Laney> oh, look at this: gnoe bug 652122
<Laney> gnome bug 652122
<ubot2> Gnome bug 652122 in message-tray "AppIndicator support in the message tray" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652122
<mterry> pitti, how easy is it to push a lower version to natty-proposed than has been pushed to it so far (i.e. for deja-dup, to not push the latest stable release with its broken help files and instead push a targeted patch on top of previous version)?
<seb128> mterry, you can't downgrade
<seb128> mterry, I guess you want nextstable-1~ppa1
<mterry> hmm, I may release an actual new stable then
<pitti> mterry: it hasn't been accepted into natty-proposed
<seb128> ups, ppa -> sru
<pitti> mterry: I didn't accept it because it looked fishy
<mterry> pitti, oh right!  brilliant
<pitti> mterry: if it's indeed wrong, I can reject it, and you can upload a fixed version
<pitti> want me to?
<mterry> pitti, yeah, I'm still confused by the help translation regression.  I'm looking into it and have some ideas why, but easier to just do a targeted patch for now
<pitti> mterry: rejected
<seb128> mterry, in case you didn't read the channel or the discussion a bit earlier the deja-dup slowness issue is a gtk bug
<mterry> seb128, yeah I was watching that go by; makes sense
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so the etherpad has a list of gtk2 and gconf users on the liveCD
<seb128> I will add references and file some bugs for things that need porting
<chrisccoulson> b'ah, i can't build firefox locally any more
<chrisccoulson> the kernel versioning change has broken the nss build
<pitti> Laney: do you now if it's possible to add some radio stations to banshee by default?
<pitti> similar to /usr/lib/rhythmbox/plugins/iradio/iradio-initial.xspf ?
<pitti> or a gconf schema, etc.
<pitti> so far I just see them in .config/banshee-1/banshee.db, but I can't pre-create this obviously
<pitti> hmm, gnome bug 548197, seems to be missing ATM
<ubot2> Gnome bug 548197 in Internet Radio "no radio stations provided by default" [Enhancement,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548197
<Laney> there's code to migrate from an xspf playlist
<Laney> that could probably be used to provide a default list
<pitti> oh, interesting
<pitti> I'll check that
<pitti> ubuntu-defaults-builder is creating an xspf one anyway
<Laney> when initialising the plugin for the first time â populate from some default path
<pitti> Laney: thanks!
<Laney> no worries
<seb128> mterry, hey, how busy are you today?
<mterry> seb128, I can take something; just working on non-urgent deja-dup stuff
<seb128> mterry, that's non urgent as well but njpatel is just rolling a new bamf tarball with gtk3 support
<seb128> mterry, do you want to package it and make it dual build gtk2 and gtk3 libs?
<pitti> Laney: ah, bummer, it only checks in ~/.config/banshee/plugins/stations/, not in any /usr path
<seb128> mterry, feel free to say no if you don't, I'm just checking because it's getting late european time but that can wait monday
<mterry> seb128, oh yeah.  I already have packaging changes for a number of the libraries I ported (for testing)
<mterry> just sitting on my machine
<seb128> mterry, ok great, it's yours then ;-)
<pitti> Laney: but I guess we might patch it to look in /usr/share/banshee/stations/default.xspf?
 * pitti follows up in above GNOME bug report
<Laney> pitti: yeah, some API for that (importing aribtary xspfs) would be reasonable
<Laney> then you could even give a UI for it
<Laney> pitti: wouldn't MigrateXspf work?
<pitti> Laney: I guess so, but we need to make it look in /usr/share/banshee/ by default; that's what I'm proposing in teh bug report
<Laney> ah, extending Migrate() to do that, right
<Laney> would be rather simple indeed
<Laney> if it read every xspf file in some directory then distributors could customise the lists without having to modify banshee
<pitti> followed up
<Laney> nice
<pitti> if they agree to that, I'll cook up a patch
<pitti> but I'll give some days for a reply, in case upstream wants it to be done slightly differently
<njpatel> seb128, mterry https://launchpad.net/bamf/0.2/0.2.92
<seb128> njpatel, \o/
<mterry> njpatel, awesome, after I grab lunch, I'll uplod
<mterry> upload even
<njpatel> shweet
<pitti> oh, llvm has landed
<mpt> mvo, hi, if you're still around: Did you see my suggestion on the unattended-upgrades blueprint?
<mvo> mpt: yes, i have seen it
<mpt> mvo, do you think it's reasonable? :-)
<mvo> mpt: well, it makes a valid point, but it would still be nice to know where the new "install in the background" element would fit into the spec even if the spec is not implented yet
<seb128> dobey, is evolution-webcal still useful nowadays?
<mpt> mvo, ok, I'll sketch some possibilities. But I'll be quite frustrated if one of them gets implemented without any of the specced simplifications being implemented. ;-)
<mvo> mpt: fair enough. its not that its not important to us, its really a matter of finding time or someone doing the dbus backend work
<mpt> mvo, right. I think you told me that and471 had done the GUI but didn't know the dbus?
<mvo> yeah
<hex-code> hi all
<hex-code> hi mvo
<mvo> hey hex-code
<hex-code> can you help me with Glib 2.28 upgrade on ubuntu 10.10
<hex-code> synaptic doesn't show any new upgrade beyond  Glib 2.26.1, and i need some help with manual installation
<hex-code> i have compiled 2.28 manually but dont know how to replace old Glib 2.26.1
<seb128> hex-code, try #ubuntu for user questions
<hex-code> actually i am doing this for dev packages
<pitti> good night everyone, have a nice weekend!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<dobey> seb128: i think so, but i'm not maintaining it any more
<seb128> dobey, what was,is it doing exactly? calling evolution when you click on an url?
<dobey> seb128: no, it pops up a dialog to subscribe to a calendar and set the poll rate and color of the calendar in e-d-s, when you click on a webcal:// url. doesn't actually open, or require, the evolution gui itself
<seb128> dobey, ok thanks
<cyphermox> mterry: how ready is libido3?
<cyphermox> I really wish I could open the indicator-datetime-preferences ;)
<mterry> cyphermox, oh, the port for indicator-datetime is ready, just unmerged I think
<cyphermox> oh cool :)
<mterry> cyphermox, oh, hm, so is ido3 (unmerged).  Blame DX  ;)
<cyphermox> yeah, I was looking at it ;)
<seb128> mterry, you or kenvandine should deal with ido, it has no maintainer in dx since bratsche left
<mterry> seb128, ick
<seb128> yeah..
<seb128> let's get that update out in a distro way and talk about ido maintainship at the rally
<mterry> seb128, is there a reason DX hasn't assigned someone else?
<mterry> seb128, ok
<seb128> mterry, out of "everybody is busy and nobody made a move to claim extra work"?
 * mterry reboots
<seb128> mterry, no, I just think nobody raised it as an issue
<seb128> they might not have realised work was needed
<seb128> mterry, wb
<mterry> :)
<mterry> latest kernel works!
<seb128> mterry, not sure if you read my "no, I just think nobody raised it as an issue, they might not have realised work was needed"
<mterry> seb128, yeah, just as I shut down, thanks
<seb128> mterry, we will sort it at the rally
<seb128> mterry, brave man, I still didn't update my kernel nor xorg this week ;-)
<seb128> I should probably do that before the rally to make sure I fix issues if there is any before travelling
<mterry> seb128, as you know, we must dogfood!  ;)
<seb128> I dogfood desktop :p
<seb128> no, forget that, it's lame
<seb128> mterry, I dogfood partial upgrades because others don't! ;-)
<seb128> (that's better)
<mterry> heh
<cyphermox> that's partly why I was asking about daily images yesterday, reinstalling my "travel laptop" to have a clean slate for the rally
<seb128> reinstalling?! ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can firefox stop using gconf?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i thought it had stopped using it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the firefox-gnome-support binary depends on libgconf2-4 on the current oneiric iso
<chrisccoulson> oh, actually, gconf support is compiled in when turning on the gnome support
<chrisccoulson> it actually uses gsettings when available
<chrisccoulson> but i will need to distro patch the gconf bits out then
<seb128> can we drop the depends on libgconf2-4? ;-)
<seb128> like put the file in the shlibs exclude list or something
<seb128> or would that break things?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well don't bother yet, we still have some 65 sources to clean
<seb128> but you're on the list!
<chrisccoulson> yeah, libmozgnome.so wouldn't load
<chrisccoulson> and you'd lose gio, gsettings and libnotify then ;)
<seb128> when we get down to a few we will need to clean
<seb128> that might be next cycle though
<seb128> so don't bother for now
<mterry> Guh, I'm being a bonehead, but I can't see how.  The following compile line for a test app is giving me undefined symbol errors for all the gtk calls: gcc `pkg-config --libs --cflags gtk+-2.0` test.c -o ./test
<mterry> Any ideas?
<mterry> (linker errors, not compile ones)
<fta> pitti, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/apport-bug-duplicated-entries.png  ???
<seb128> mterry, what does "pkg-config --libs --cflags gtk+-2.0" give you?
<chrisccoulson> mterry, try putting the "-o ./test" before the linker flags
<seb128> oh
<mterry> -pthread -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/cairo -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/gio-unix-2.0/ -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/pixman-1 -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/libpng12 -I/usr/include/libdrm -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include  -pthread -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lgdk_pix
<mterry> buf-2.0 -lm -lcairo -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lglib-2.0
<mterry> chrisccoulson, no help
<mterry> chrisccoulson, oh!
<seb128> mterry, try with gcc-4.5?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, but if I put the test.c in front, it does help
<seb128> mterry, it seems like a --as-needed thing
<seb128> right
<mterry> I didn't know order of source files mattered like that
<mterry> seb128, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<seb128> it does since --as-needed
<seb128> that's annoying
<mterry> I see...
<mterry> Does Ubuntu have test armel machines to log into?  I want to test a build for reals...
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-18
<GunnarHj> cjwatson: Hi Colin, there is something with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/lightdm/ubuntu/revision/44 that prevents me from logging in with password. It just hangs.
<GunnarHj> cjwatson: Please disregard my previous message. It was I who did something stupid (don't know what yet...)
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-06-19
<RenatoSilva> would you allow me to ask for support here? #ubuntu is too ineffective. Seems populated of noobs
<RenatoSilva> not that I'm an expert, but...
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-11
<Bdrumz> hello. can anyone help me? :)
<larsduesing> Good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Quantal doesn't seem to like me today; unity keeps crashing, the theme is wrong, and telepathy keeps failing to authenticate
<jasoncwarner_> hey pitti oh...I'm assuming you are running daily?
<pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
<pitti> yes, updated yesterday evening
<pitti> anyway, I'll just wait
 * pitti reports two apport crashes to LP
<jasoncwarner_> ok, thanks pitti , I'll find out when the EUs get online :)
<RAOF> pitti: I think there's some dbus/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-control-centre madness happening; for me unity takes ~20sec to load, and I think that's it waiting for a bus timeout.
<pitti> yeah, here too
<pitti> then it resets the theme to ambiance
<pitti> for unity, anyway
<RAOF> If you try starting up gnome-settings-daemon it'll work, but later crash after timing out waiting for the session manager on dbus, apparently.
<didrocks> good morning
<jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: morning!
<didrocks> good morning jasoncwarner_, how was your week-end? :)
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: good, thanks. You?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: was good as well, although quite rainy
<didrocks> am I the only one having gnome-settings-daemon exiting on quantal?
<didrocks> (and no more appmenu integration)
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I think pitti is having issues with it... RAOF mentioned something as well
<pitti> hey didrocks
<RAOF> Hey didrocks!
<pitti> didrocks: yes, quantal is not nice today; g-s-d acting up, compiz crashing, telepathy not logging in
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, your long week-end was good? :)
<didrocks> pitti: compiz crashing? nothing changed AFAIK, let me look at the uploads
<pitti> didrocks: indeed it was, thanks! spent two days in Dresden, and two in Halle for a family birthday
<didrocks> hey RAOF
<didrocks> oh nice :)
<pitti> didrocks: I did file an X.org apport crash, compiz did not get one; perhaps it exited because of the g-s-d issue, or due to the X.org crash, I don't know
<didrocks> pitti: can be, yeah
<RAOF> pitti: Xorg crash?
<pitti> apport just duped it to bug 1010292
<didrocks> and appmenu is doubled for your as well?
<RAOF> Actually, no. Let's go back to playing with mono AOT. Xorg crash can be tomorrow, when I'm working :)
<didrocks> in gtk3 apps
<didrocks> RAOF: oh, still one week-end? run away ;)
<RAOF> Long weekend here :)
<didrocks> heh, enjoy!
 * didrocks feels it's because of the gnome-desktop ABI break and g-s-d rebuilt
<didrocks> I wish this would have be done by the desktop team first, and tested in -proposed
<RAOF> Didn't Robert upload gnome-desktop & friends?
<didrocks> infinity did the ABI rebuilds (a large part of the stack)
<didrocks> all of this should have been done in -proposed, tested and copied to release IMHO
<micahg> could g-s-d depending on libgnomekbd7 be part of the issue?
<didrocks> micahg: I see some keyboard warnings, so can be
<didrocks> I'm afraid I will have to package 3.5.2
<didrocks> but with that, we will regress in compiz front as we don't have the gsettings backend yet
<didrocks> finishing my email backlog and then looking at that
<RAOF> I think g-s-d is waiting for something on dbus, then dying when it doesn't show up; it crashes after timing out on a couple of dbuseys.
<glatzor> morning pitti.
<pitti> hey glatzor, wie gehts?
<glatzor> how are you?
<pitti> glatzor: I'm great, thanks!
<glatzor> pitti, fine. The last 5 days on my old working place.
 * pitti is currently fighting with apport's py3 port
<pitti> glatzor: oh, where are you moving to?
<glatzor> pitti, To be honest I don't know yet. I just wanted to put an end to my current working place. and so my girlfriend and me are taking the chance to take off some monthes and travelling around Canada
<glatzor> pitti, perhaps I will answer to one of the Google head hunter spams :)
<pitti> hehe
<glatzor> pitti, The seems to regularly scan Ohloho
<glatzor> pitti, Niels Thykier gave me the advice to use lintian profiles instead of the currently used tag files
<pitti> in aptdaemon?
<pitti> I haven't used lintian profiles yet
<glatzor> pitti, right. Aptdaemon now ships a debian/aptdaemon.profile and an ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile
<glatzor> pitti, the are based on the debian ftp mater auto reject profile
<glatzor> they are ..
<glatzor> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/lintian-profiles/view/head:/data/lintian/ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile
<glatzor> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/lintian-profiles/view/head:/data/lintian/debian/aptdaemon.profile
<glatzor> pitti, I just converted the old tag files to profiles. But I think that the list of disabled checks in the ubuntu profile could need some review.
<pitti> ah, nice
<pitti> that's more general than the old tag files, though, as you cannot override messages for specific files?
<glatzor> pitti, overrides are now easily configurable. We just use the ones from the ftp master auto reject profile. sys admins can even place a custom profile add /etc/lintian/profiles/ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile to overwrite the shipped one
<glatzor> pitti, the test will now also fail on warnings.
<pitti> you've been busy :)
<pitti> also, thanks for merging the pkcompat branch
<glatzor> pitti, you just need to a Tag section with the Overridable attribute
<glatzor> need to add a
<glatzor> pitti, it is raining here a lot :)
<glatzor> pitti, I found a comment of you in the pkcompat branch about getting the return value of 2 from apt-key even on successful runs
<glatzor> pitti, is there are way to reproduce this?
<pitti> glatzor: right, that's why I modified the logic to check stdout
<pitti> glatzor: the test suite does
<pitti> hm, why can't I run this ATM -- can't import apt.auth
<pitti> ah, I guess it was removed and moved to apt or so
<glatzor> pitti, right. I created a new apt.auth module
<glatzor> pitti, unfortunately trunk currently depends on a not yet released libapt and python-apt
<glatzor> pitti, I fixed apt-key to be usable with chroots too
<pitti> if we can fix the exit code in apt-key, we can revert the workaround, of course
<glatzor> pitti, the adv command of apt-key should return the exit state of gnupg directly
<glatzor> pitti, we could also use the status fd of gnupg in apt.auth
<glatzor> pitti, but to come back to the initial issue: who should decide on the lintian profile and when we call a software being of bad quality
<glatzor> ?
<pitti> this is for installing third-party debs, right?
<pitti> not sure really; I guess someone familiar with the current set of tags should review them (mvo?), and perhaps put it up for review on u-devel@
<glatzor> morning mvo :)
<mvo> hey glatzor and pitti!
<pitti> hey mvo, guten Morgen
<didrocks> hey mvo! enjoyed your holidays?
<mvo> didrocks: yes, it was very nice!
<didrocks> great ;) staying at home or travelling?
<mvo> didrocks: I stayed at home, it was a very short vac, still a nice break
<didrocks> sweet :)
<didrocks> RAOF: if you are still around, it's the gnome-desktop MAX_GL_TEXTURE helper which troubles g-s-d :)
<RAOF> didrocks: ORLY?
<RAOF> Arse.
<RAOF> That's what it's waiting for, I take it?
<RAOF> Yay for defensively setting a timeout :)
<didrocks> RAOF: indeed! :)
<didrocks> he's waiting eagerly to gnome-desktop to respond on the MAX_GL_TEXTURE
<didrocks> which out to ignore him completely
<RAOF> Heh.
<didrocks> RAOF: it's normal that it ignores it btw
<didrocks> RAOF: it's not like if it was on disk :p
<didrocks> found why I guess
<didrocks> two libexec_PROGRAMS in the same Makefile.am, one should die :)
<glatzor> mvo, when do you plan to upload apt and python-apt?
<glatzor> I would like to release the python3 port with the new apt.auth support
<glatzor> mvo, pitti oh. I have to leave for work now. see you.
<glatzor> have a nice day
<pitti> bye glatzor, you too!
<mvo> glatzor: bye
<mvo> glatzor: yes, apt is ready in my bzr branch for quantal
<mvo> glatzor: and python-apt will be soon I hope
<thumper> didrocks: kudos on helping solve the Q gcc issue
<didrocks> thumper: no worry :)
<thumper> didrocks: it was a doozy
<didrocks> thumper: now, we need to find the best (and saner) strategy to have both libs installed and living well together :)
<didrocks> thumper: oh yeahâ¦
<thumper> didrocks: now hoe to move forward again :)
<thumper> s/hoe/how
<didrocks> thumper: indeed ;) I'm hoping we can tackle/fix that today or tomorrow. I'm feeling way better now that we know the cause
<thumper> me too
<thumper> I was scratching my head quite a bit
<thumper> I'm off to clean dinner dishes since John is late again
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<Laney> morning!
<chrisccoulson> hi Laney
<Laney> how goes?
<didrocks> thumper: see you! :)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, did you have a good weekend?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: how was your week-end?
<didrocks> morning Laney!
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: an excellent one despite the rain!
<chrisccoulson> heh, it didn't rain too much here, thankfully
<chrisccoulson> is anyone else having problems with gnome-settings-daemon not running in their unity session atm?
<larsu> chrisccoulson, ha, I just wanted to ask the same question :)
<larsu> chrisccoulson, Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0
<chrisccoulson> larsu, yeah, my unity session is quite unusable. i get that too, and there's quite a few dbus related errors as well
<chrisccoulson> i've had to switch to gnome shell this morning ;)
<chrisccoulson> which still seems to work for some reason
<chrisccoulson> so, if nobody has started looking at that, i guess i should probably take a look at it now
<chrisccoulson> now i know it isn't just me :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, I fixed it
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: see my gnome-desktop upload
<didrocks> larsu: ^
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, thanks :)
<larsu> oh cool
<larsu> didrocks, thanks!
<didrocks> larsu: yw ;)
<didrocks> larsu: btw, a question on that
<didrocks> larsu: g-s-d exiting -> appmenu shown on the application?
<didrocks> larsu: is that new? is it a new property that g-s-d is sending to gtk apps?
<didrocks> like "hide my menu please" :)
<larsu> didrocks, it shouldn't. But I see appmenus on almost all gtk3 apps now. I assume it's all bug #999827
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 999827 in indicator-appmenu "App menus aren't shown in the panel if the app is also exporting menus via dbusmenu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999827
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, there is an xsettings property for that now
<didrocks> oh, it's a xsettings property on the root window?
 * didrocks looks :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have the name of the property? I'm curious :)
<seb128> hey
<seb128> hey didrocks, chrisccoulson, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 pitti, how are you?
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i can't remember it off the top of my head
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson; I'm great, thanks! had a nice long weekend
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<didrocks> hey seb128. I'm fine, thanks, and you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok ;)
<larsu> didrocks, chrisccoulson may be right - the bug I linked to is a separate issue
<larsu> seb128, morning!
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, I guess so
<seb128> didrocks, good, thanks ;-)
<seb128> larsu, guten tag!
<larsu> still needs to get fixed :-/
<seb128> didrocks, what issue are you discussing?
<didrocks> seb128: oh, not an issue, I was just wondering why when g-s-d exit, the appmenu is shown in gtk3 apps
<didrocks> seb128: this is quite new, isn't it?
<seb128> didrocks, since precise, that's the work desrt did
<seb128> didrocks, Gtk/ShellShowsMenubar xsettings is set by gsd
<seb128> same for Gtk/ShellShowsAppMenu
<didrocks> on the root window?
<seb128> didrocks, remember, I told you that you can turn off the appmenu with gsettings overrides ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, well, it's a xsettings, like the theme, etc
<seb128> I don't think it's win specific
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<seb128> didrocks, googling suggest there is a settings window for those
<seb128> http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html
<seb128> didrocks, "The settings manager changes the contents of the _XSETTINGS_SETTINGS property of the root window whenever the source it derives them from changes,"
<seb128> inf act
<didrocks> seb128: ok, reading it, thanks!
<Sweetshark> moin!
<larsu> seb128, I know you told me this before, but how can I get the equivalent of bzr branch lp:ubuntu/gnome-settings-daemon if the autoimporter is broken?
<seb128> larsu, apt-get source gnome-settings-daemon?
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<larsu> seb128, yeah, but that doesn't let me fix something and put out a merge request
<larsu> I want to remove that print plugin asserting in .xsession-errors
<seb128> larsu: we use debian only vcs, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu
<seb128> larsu, but feel free to just do an upstream patch for that, .xsession-errors noise are usually not worth doing an Ubuntu specific upload
<larsu> seb128, it's in our patch that removes the plugin. Otherwise I'd have done it upstream ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: could you take of bug 1010631 or reassign it appropriately?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010631 in libcmis "sync request: libcmis (0.2.2-1) " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010631
<Laney> ogra_: hey, can you add me to that team with an ARM PPA please? (I forgot its name, sorry)
<seb128> larsu: ok, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu then
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok
<larsu> seb128, cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> hmm, has anyone else used gnome-shell with multiple monitors?
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx!
<Laney> ogra_: hey, can you add me to that team with an ARM PPA please? (I forgot its name, sorry)
<Laney> .
<ogra_> Laney, no neeed to repeat :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, seems we were quite lucky to mostly avoid rain over the weekend: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18391200
<ogra_> Laney, done (canonical-arm-dev btw)
<Laney> ogra_: sorry. Something is very wrong with my internet connection right now
<Laney> switched to mosh to hopefully smooth it out
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> well, you are a member now, have fun :)
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> which PPA should I be using?
<Laney> ah, "ppa" probably :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we didn't avoid rain in France ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, we didn't completely avoid it, but it didn't rain here as much as it did in wales
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what about g-s and multimonitor? I didn't try here but I guess it should be working
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i just docked my laptop whilst running gnome-shell, and noticed that i only get 1 workspace on my secondary monitor
<chrisccoulson> not sure if that's normal
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think that's wanted
<chrisccoulson> oh, that sucks ;)
<chrisccoulson> i prefer what we have
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: that's to punish you using it :p
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> it feels quite broken to be able to have multiple workspaces on only 1 screen
<chrisccoulson> i definitely couldn't work like that
<Laney> hrm, I've no unity this morning :P
<didrocks> Laney: possibly due to this g-s-d timing out (and theme changing), no?
<didrocks> Laney: nothing changed/have been built unity side
<Laney> I installed your gnome-desktop3 before restarting
<didrocks> Laney: or do you have your locally installed version with the rebuild?
<didrocks> the one you merge proposed
<Laney> don't think I did it on this machine
<Laney> let me see.
<Laney> getting a compiz segfault
<didrocks> report it please ;)
<Laney> am doing
<thumper> didrocks: I think compiz compiles with C++0x
<thumper> didrocks: just a fyi :)
<didrocks> thumper: right, but it's uploaded for 15 days now
<didrocks> thumper: and no issue :)
<thumper> ok
<didrocks> thumper: however, I spoke to the gcc dev
<didrocks> thumper: they are telling that ABI changes are coming all over the place in the stl
<didrocks> thumper: and it's not yet intended to be used in applications as long as the stack isn't ready
<thumper> didrocks: ick
<Laney> bug #1011496, see if the retracer dups it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011496 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in std::__detail::_List_node_base::_M_hook()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011496
<didrocks> thumper: so, I'm not sure the cost of this and shipping 2 versions of the whole stlâ¦
<thumper> :(
<didrocks> Laney: are you sure that you don't have the version you compiled locally?
<didrocks> as it's exactly that
<didrocks> the crash I was reffering and why I refused your merge
<Laney> I thought apport would have refused the bug if so
<Laney> I'll make it re-download :P
<Sweetshark> seb128: btw my machine failed to boot into lightdm today again -- with the patch from the bug.
<didrocks> Laney: if you rebuild with the same versionâ¦
<didrocks> thumper: I guess we need to discuss that tomorrow, preferrably with doko?
 * thumper nods
<seb128> Sweetshark, oh, "LibreOffice gerrit bot" is you? ;-)
<didrocks> thumper: I'm afraid the cost at the end will get higher and higher. The gcc devs are happy to work with us on this
<Sweetshark> seb128: :/
<thumper> didrocks: I'm concerned that unity is just the tip of the iceberg here
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes. forgot to exchange logins
<didrocks> thumper: right, they are just discouraging using it for final apps until the stack is ready
<thumper> didrocks: if I'm a project dev using C++ and I choose to use C++0x flag to get the new goodness, I'd expect it to work on ubuntu
<didrocks> thumper: I'll try to get doko on board
<thumper> they who?
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, thanks for testing and commenting back, guess we need to figure another fix then :-(
<Sweetshark> Hello. I am your friendly LibreOffice Bot. How can I help?
<didrocks> thumper: gcc devs implementing C++0x
<chrisccoulson> thumper, did you see my mail on ubuntu-devel about this?
<thumper> chrisccoulson: no, I'm not on ubuntu-devel
<thumper> didrocks: the problem with this is how much in unity would have to change
<chrisccoulson> thumper, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035310.html
<thumper> didrocks: and it is a metric fuck-ton
<chrisccoulson> i guess you're talking about this :)
<didrocks> thumper: indeedâ¦ I totally agree. I would prefer that we don't have to change the code all over the place
<didrocks> thumper: let's see, I'm trying to catch doko ASAP
<didrocks> thumper: and I'll setup a meeting
<didrocks> hopefully on in crazy hours for you
<chrisccoulson> stl isn't really meant to be used in public api's for this reason
<didrocks> not*
<chrisccoulson> thumper, https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/211119293004398593 ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: in the email I sent to them, I refered to that email
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ah, ok. thanks
<didrocks> so he should have read it already :)
<thumper> chrisccoulson: I feel that you are saying different things to what I'm inferring from didrocks
<chrisccoulson> thumper, in what way?
<didrocks> hum?
<Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice_3.4.5+really3.4.4-0ubuntu1 is now finally ready on chinstrap. how do we proceed with it?
<thumper> I inferred it was only libsigc++6 that was the issue as it was compiled with a different flag
<thumper> chrisccoulson: you mentioned it was just libsigc++
<thumper> damnit
<thumper> first library should be libstdc++6
<chrisccoulson> thumper, ah, libstdc isn't really involved here, because a lot of the STL is template code, which means it has to be compiled inline
<thumper> that is what I thought
<thumper> however it means that we can't use "auto, lambdas, range based for loops, strong enums" and a bunch of others
<thumper> that we have started using in unity wholesale
<thumper> for the last 10 months
<thumper> c++11 also adds namespacing to old enums
<thumper> which c++98 does not
<thumper> so much nice goodness that it seems we are being told not to use
<chrisccoulson> i'm not advocating switching away from that :)
<thumper> ok, didrocks, chrisccoulson: do we need a meeting to decide how to move forwards?
<chrisccoulson> rather, that we should switch libsigc. but i wonder whether we need to have a policy to enforce things like this
<thumper> or will email be sufficient?
<chrisccoulson> email should probably be ok
<thumper> ok
<didrocks> thumper: maybe, we can twist this, I'm testing something
<didrocks> thumper: building with 4.6
<chrisccoulson> that will work until someone rebuilds libsigc with 4.7 :)
<thumper> this just sounds like a pile of mess
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, this can work if it's with 4.7 but without the flags?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: as the issue for us is that there isn't this flag
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, the STL ABI is different between gcc versions too
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: argh, it's definitively a doko's issue here
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> he should 1. first have warned us about those
<didrocks> 2. handle that because we have quite a lot of apps in the stack
<didrocks> (and not only in main)
<chrisccoulson> this is why i hate the "lets use the latest toolchain" bandwagon, because it always results in people doing unproductive work just to unbreak things :)
<didrocks> indeed
<chrisccoulson> especially people who maintain a browser ;)
<chrisccoulson> which always breaks with a new compiler
<didrocks> heh, not sure who you speak about ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<didrocks> Laney: see why I refused your merge now? ;)
<Laney> :P
<Laney> sorry :(
<didrocks> no worry!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you finish the pgo benchmarks? I'm pondering if your remaining a1 item should be closed or moved to a2
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yes, that's finished. i just need to present the data in a way which is useful, which is why i haven't closed it yet :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, I let if for you then ... what's the bottom line, is that bringing a real improvement?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, in some JS benchmarks it is quite a significant improvement. overall it does make it faster
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx for support and syncing/sponsoring.
<seb128> Sweetshark, you're welcome, thanks for the work ;-)
<BigWhale> Is Gstreamer 1.0 already in Quantal?
<RAOF> BigWhale: Yes.
 * BigWhale does a happy dance.
<BigWhale> RAOF, awesome.
<BigWhale> Thanks.
<RAOF> Doing some gstreamer hacking? :)
<BigWhale> I ported most of Kazam to GStreamer 1.0
<BigWhale> and I am being lazy about installing it from the source again.
<BigWhale> so I'll just use a VM
<BigWhale> Now all I need is a new keybinder ...
<seb128> re
<didrocks> re seb128
<Sweetshark> seb128: ping?
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> seb128: I managed to get launchpad to take my branch. So ignore my diff and take https://code.launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/ubuntu-seeds/quantal-libo instead as a base ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok!
<Sweetshark> seb128: I *really* stupidly made a mistake with my ssh setup. #launchpad had a laugh ....
<seb128> Sweetshark, can happen to anyone ;-)
<mpt> skaet, could you please mark <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-indicator-redesign> as accepted for Q? The approver does not have permission.
<skaet> mpt,   done.  what's the priority of this one?
<mpt> skaet, thank you. Medium.
<skaet> thanks mpt,  done.
<mpt> \o/
<Laney> ..
<seb128> Laney, ???
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> this is a funny-looking terminal!
<pavolzetor> hilo, where should I report bug about skype?
<pavolzetor> I have tried ubuntu-bug skype
<pavolzetor> but package is not in repo or so
<pavolzetor> I am just a little pissed with horrible icon in AltTab
<pavolzetor> so I want to report it
<jbicha> pavolzetor: I believe that bug was already reported as bug 937975
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 937975 in skype "Application needs hi-res or SVG icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937975
<pavolzetor> I see
<pavolzetor> who does package skype?
<pavolzetor> it should be really easy to fix
<pavolzetor> okay I subscribed, thanks
<mterry> mpt, so in the Software Updater, the phrase "Checking for updates..." should be (A) big, (B) big and bold, or (C) neither?
<mpt> mterry, C
<mpt> mterry, that is a provisional answer because I'm not the guy writing the typography guidelines, but I'm fairly confident in that one. :-)
<mterry> mpt, and the details line below the progress bar, it should be normal size too?  (the "Checking Yorba PPA" one -- not that we have that nice a description yet)
<mpt> mterry, that's a caption, small print (<small>)
<mterry> mpt, OK!
<Sweetshark> LibreOffice is down to 273 nonupstream/nonincomplete open bugs ...
<kenvandine> Sweetshark, that is impressive
<Sweetshark> ... and down to 106 triaged/confirmed nonupstream bugs.
 * Sweetshark is dead set on making that <100 bug.
<Sweetshark> (this cycle)
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone!
<mpt> Sweetshark, maybe you should request a page on <http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus>
<mpt> for libreoffice
<mpt> to watch your progress
<Sweetshark> mpt: yep, looks nice. will do maybe.
<seb128> Sweetshark, mpt: request http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/openoffice.org to be changed to libreoffice ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, you can probably ask bdmurray
<seb128> dobey, hey, u1 question for you ... we still have the syncdaemon on the CD, is that required with the installer?
<dobey> seb128: no, but is required for other things that are still on the image
<seb128> dobey, what things?
<dobey> seb128: why? are you removing all the python2 stuff that's still there now?
<dobey> seb128: buying music needs it
<seb128> dobey, jason asked me to figure what are our option if twisted doesn't get ported this cycle
<seb128> dobey, the store is not using the installer, couldn't install it on demand on first use if needed?
<seb128> dobey, it's just a plan B but I'm trying to figure our options
<dobey> seb128: ok. i've already talked to chipaca/ralsina about it, and chipaca will talk to cparrino/jason/rick/etc about it
<dobey> seb128: yes, not having u1 on the image will require a lot of changes
<seb128> dobey, ok, thanks, that's good enough of an answer for me ... he asked me why we needed the service if we had the installer anyway and asking users to install stuff on demand
<dobey> seb128: also, ubuntu-sso-client does need twisted and ubuntuone-dev-tools at least, to be able to run tests on python3 :)
<seb128> dobey, I was unsure by then, I though it might have to do with the store
<seb128> dobey, ok, 'fair enough, I guess there is no easy way out of it ;-)
<dobey> seb128: yeah, we don't really have things set up to install on demand. and no matter what we do, it's going to be >1 month of work i think :)
<seb128> dobey, thanks ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can I tell firefox,tb to just copy text as normal text and not as format html text?
<seb128> oh, tb has a "paste without formatting"
<seb128> can I make that the default for ctrl-v? ;-)
<seb128> pitti, would you be interested to look at bug #1010141? I subscribed you, it seems a bit of your area, I would appreciate if you could have a look when you get a bit of free time
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010141 in gvfs "gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor automounts loop devices, preventing them from being unmounted" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010141
<BigWhale> Greetings.
<kenvandine> hey BigWhale
<BigWhale> Hey ken.
<BigWhale> kenvandine, how's it going? :)
<kenvandine> busy... and you?
<BigWhale> about the same. :/
<BigWhale> but I try to find time for some Ubuntu lobbying in the mean time. I'm right in the middle of writing an email to ubuntu-desktop. :)
<seb128> BigWhale, not sure that was worth a mailing list message, that update seems like a normal update, it just needs somebody to do it?
<jbicha> BigWhale: also since we're in sync with Debian, you should ask the Debian maintainer, DktrKranz hangs out in Debian IRC if you want to ping him that way
<BigWhale> seb128, jbicha: thanks for the tips. I'll go bug DktrKranz. :)
<BigWhale> seb128, and I don't mind writing an email or two.
<seb128> BigWhale, I'm sure you don't, I just don't want anyone who want an update for any desktopish source to write to the list :p
<seb128> BigWhale, or we would get some ten or so such emails a day
<BigWhale> Understandable.
<BigWhale> I did ask here already, but I got no definite answer. So, that was the next logical step. :)
<seb128> BigWhale, well, no worry, I just wanted to check if there was anything special about tha tupdate
<seb128> seems not
<seb128> that will maybe help to get somebody to pick it ;-)
<BigWhale> :)
<BigWhale> seb128, I contacted Kranz, so I'll see what will he say. Just to make sure, the only way for this to land in Ubuntu is for him to update the package? Or this is just the preferred way?
<seb128> BigWhale, that's the preferred way
<BigWhale> Ok, thanks. I'll go to the mind-control machine right now and persuade him to do it. :>
<seb128> ;-)
<TheMuso> /c/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-12
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: hey
<RAOF> ARGH STUPID DAMN SSDs.
<lifeless> RAOF: ?
<RAOF> The ssd in my laptop has decided that it's *too good* to talk to the bios. Therefore, the bios sees it not.
<lifeless> hah
<lifeless> 'too good'? Is that hyperbole, or an actual error symptom ?
<RAOF> Hyperbole ;)
<RAOF> It no longer appears in the BIOS' list of devices; presumably it's not responding to SATA commands.
<RAOF> This is why dÃ©jÃ  dup is set to daily backups.
<bryceh> RAOF, last week I had a problem where the SSD wouldn't come up, because the freakin' liveusb stick installed the boot loader on the usb stick.  wtf.
<RAOF> That's a bit sub-optimal
<bryceh> RAOF, so the ssd only booted when the usb stick was installed.  fun!
<bryceh> of course, easy to fix once I figured out what was going on, but eesh.
<bryceh> common problem with liveusb's with persistent storage enabled, apparently.
<thomi> Does anyone know what "failed to set drm interface version" means? It's an error that I'm getting from X on three separate boxes with different graphics cards when trying to live-boot the precise daily CD image.
<TheMuso> Given all the things I've heard about SSDs, I can't help but wonder if the tech is still a little immature.
<RAOF> thomi: "failed to set drm interface version" generally means one of two things: the drm modules aren't ready, or you don't have the requisite permissions.
<RAOF> Woot! Thank you deja-dup; now I have the actual code I want to palm off to robert_ancell :)
<thomi> hmmm, I'm guessing it's the former, rather than the latter, since this is the live CD
<thomi> RAOF: any idea how I'd check that?
<RAOF> Where are you seeing that?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, lost then found again?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: On an SSD that's died, then extracted from yesterday's backup.
<thomi> RAOF: in the X log, instead of booting into the desktop I get the "system running in low graphics mode" dialog.
<RAOF> thomi: You could pastebin the Xorg.0.log; you could also try logging in to a VT and checking that the drm module's up and running - that'd be one of i915, radeon, or nouveau.
<bryceh> TheMuso, I've a bunch of systems on SSD's now, and anecdotally would say they're definitely no worse than HDDs generally
<thomi> RAOF: the 'radeon' module is indeed listed in 'lsmod'
<bryceh> TheMuso, remember with HDD's there's a class of mechanical problems you can run into, which just aren't going to happen on SSD's.
<cyphermox> robert_ancell: fyi; seb told me you were working on g-s-d 3.5; might want to merge with what's currently in lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu if you have a local branch, I did an upload earlier.
<RAOF> thomi: If you start lightdm now, does it work?
<TheMuso> bryceh: Yeah I know, same for both I guess, I've just heard of some pretty bad SSD failings, which surprises me for drives with no moving parts.
<thomi> RAOF: I don't get an error, but I can't seem to switch to VT7, I just get a black screen. However, there's a chance that's the KVM I'm fighting with
 * thomi checks logs
<RAOF> I think the vertex series is particularly bad; I heard similar bad things about vertex 2 drives, but (at the time I bought it) people were saying that the vertex 3 had resolved that.
<bryceh> TheMuso, maybe so.  I always research my drive purchases on newegg and have yet to have an SSD failure (out of about a dozen I own currently).
<bryceh> TheMuso, of course having said that I'm sure tomorrow I'll have the SSD in my most critical system go down...
<micahg> bryceh: how old is your oldest drive?
<thomi> RAOF: OK, I finally beat the KVM into submission. Yes, if I start lightdm manually it works perfectly
<RAOF> thomi: In that case it sounds like a race between X startup and drm.
<RAOF> thomi: Are you only seeing this on radeon cards?
<thomi> RAOF: nope, I have *exactly* the same issue on three separate machines running radeon, nvidia, and intel chipsets
<RAOF> That's very odd.
<thomi> RAOF: possibly something to do with it being a PXE boot?
<thomi> I dunno how that would change anything though, but I guess having an NFS FS might make some race conditions rear their heads
<RAOF> I guess it *could* be? But intel and nouveau are usually better at actually waiting for their devices to come up before bailing in that way.
<thomi> RAOF: I am able to tweak the OS before it boots, so if there's a hack you can think of to make sure things happen in the right order I'm happy to try it out
<bryceh> micahg, hardy timeframe.
<RAOF> thomi: Loading the drm modules into the initramfs should rule out a race.
<micahg> bryceh: a 4 yr old SSD?
<bryceh> micahg, hmm that doesn't sound right
<thomi> hmmm
<RAOF> thomi: An easy way to get the drm modules into the initramfs is to install cryptsetup, then rebuild the initramfs.
<thomi> RAOF: sp is the kernel module always called 'drm', or does that change between drivers?
<RAOF> thomi: There's drm.ko, drm_kms_helper.ko, and a hardware-specific driver - i915.ko, radeon.ko, nouveau.ko.
<bryceh> micahg, I'm a year off; it was right after berlin, which looks like it was the Jaunty sprint in Feb 2009
<micahg> bryceh: still, a 3yr SSD seems amazing
<thomi> RAOF: thanks
<bryceh> micahg, yeah I got in early on ssd's.  That particular drive has been hand-me-downed through a few systems.  I've lost track of where it exists now but think it's in a netbook I gave to a relative.
<thomi> RAOF: possibly a stupid question: Would it matter if I loaded a graphics driver in the initramfs that wasn't needed for the hardware? For example, I had the 'radeon' module in there and the machine had an intel card?
<thomi> ...reason being: I have one OS image that serves several different machines
<RAOF> No; the modules will only autoload if the hardware they support is present, and (generally) will fail to load if you try to manually modprobe them on a system without hardware they can drive.
<RAOF> And won't *harm* anything even if they do load.
<thomi> ok, cool
<pitti> Good morning
<cyphermox> hey pitti
<cyphermox> I'm planning on starting on the drivers stuff "tomorrow", basically in a few hours
<cyphermox> I'll poke your brain about the plans then :)
<pitti> cyphermox: nice!
<pitti> looking forward to the new GUI
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hiya pitti
<rickspencer3> pitti,  how is your new upstream QA work going?
<pitti> rickspencer3: some slow progress; still working on desktop backlog
<pitti> rickspencer3: but I submitted my first kernel patch last week and did not get flamed (didn't get applied yet, though)
<rickspencer3> pitti, backlog of desktop work, or backlog of desktop QA?
<pitti> rickspencer3: and I'm making some nice progress on the udisks2 test suite; it already helped to discover one bug in udisks2 itself, and one in util-linux, which is quite nice (and unexpected)
<rickspencer3> congrats!
<pitti> rickspencer3: desktop work; some python3 porting and the like
<pitti> but that's fine
<rickspencer3> well, looks like daily quality is still marching along, except KDE seems to be in some difficulties
<pitti> yeah, today quantal is much better than yesterday
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<didrocks> good morning
<rickspencer3> 'morning didrocks
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3, Ã§a va ?
<rickspencer3> Ã§a va bien
<rickspencer3> expetÃ©, je n'ai pas cafÃ©
<rickspencer3> je dois sortir pour cafÃ© biento ....
<rickspencer3> je dorm ....
<rickspencer3> zzzzzzz
<rickspencer3> didrocks, et tois? Ã§a va?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: Ã§a va bien! pas encore pris de cafÃ© non plus, mais je vais me faire un petit thÃ© bientÃ´t
<rickspencer3> tu as la vie sÃ nte
<didrocks> je sais pas si le thÃ© est plus zen que le cafÃ©, mais je prÃ©fÃ¨re son goÃ»t
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut didrocks, ouais, et toi ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<Sweetshark> bonjours mes amis!
<seb128> Sweetshark, guten tag!
<Sweetshark> ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: I could need a helping hand with forcing gcc to 4.6 on quantal. I have "build-conflicts: gcc (>= 4:4.7~) [!kfreebsd-i386 !kfreebsd-amd64], g++ (>= 4:4.7~) [!kfreebsd-i386 !kfreebsd-amd64]" but dpkg complains that g++ 4.7 whats gcc 4.7. yeah, right. but it shouldnt fiddle with g++ 4.7 anyway ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/107401324/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.libreoffice_1%3A3.6.0~beta1-0ubuntu4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> Sweetshark, do you need to remove 4.7? can't you just build-depends on 4.6 and tweak CC= and equivalents?
<Sweetshark> seb128: maybe -- Im unsure, if the old build system respects CC in every corner ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, the issue there is that build-essential depends on 4.7
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm not sure you can remove build-essential from the buildds
<Sweetshark> seb128: right
<Sweetshark> well, the old bs should work on that too ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, ?
<seb128> bs?
<Sweetshark> seb128: old build system (or old bull****) ;)
<seb128> heh, I see ;-)
<glatzor> hello mvo
<glatzor> mvo I added some patches to lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/ubuntu-precise to reduce the shame on errors.ubuntu.com :)
<pitti> popey: hey Alan, how are you?
<pitti> popey: do you guys plan to port unity away from libgdu to libudisks2 soon? udisks1 and libgdu are both obsolete
<seb128> pitti, I doubt anyone is working on that yet, I'm not even sure they knew about that transition, can you open a bug?
<pitti> sure
<pitti> should be fairly easy
<BigWhale> seb128, I chatted with DktrKranz yesterday. He'll update keybinder and get it ready for Wheezy in the next couple of days.
<popey> pitti: I was not aware of that
<popey> thanks!
<pitti> popey, seb128: I filed bug 1012000 about it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1012000 in unity "Port to libudisks2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012000
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> popey: please let me know if there is any trouble; I know udisks rather well, so can help if there are any questions
<pitti> just got bug 1011997, which reminded me about this :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011997 in compiz "compiz crashed with SIGABRT in g_assertion_message()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011997
<pitti> I can reliably crash compiz by running udisks' test suite
<popey> delightful!
<seb128> pitti, you probably want to talk to the unity hackers rather than the packagers, I will ping andyrock, I think he's the closer of a maintainer for that code
<pitti> right; I pinged popey because I thought he would know best whom to assign/forward it to
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> pitti, andyrock said he would work on it ... btw is the sigabrt a unity issue or a libgdu one?
<pitti> I don't have the full stack trace yet, but I figure it's calling gdu_pool_get_by_device_file() with a NULL argument or so
<pitti> it seems the code/logic for getting teh actual assertion message isn't working, meh
<pitti> that even has a test in glib
 * pitti puts that on his todo
<seb128> pitti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/107405806/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> stacktrace from the retracer
<seb128> interesting stuff are optimized out...
<seb128> get_device_for_device_file (device_file=0x375a880 "/dev/sdb")
<mvo> glatzor: awsome, let me sponsor that
<seb128> though
<pitti> get_device_for_device_file (device_file=0x375a880 "/dev/sdb") seems complete, though
<pitti> so, presumably in libgdu
 * pitti reassigns
<mvo> glatzor: I'm currently working on your python-apt MP for the auth stuff too
<pitti> seb128: updated the bug, FYI
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: I got your ping about bug 1010141, btw; on my todo list
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010141 in gvfs "gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor automounts loop devices, preventing them from being unmounted" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010141
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, I got pinged by kees about it, I've the feeling the google guys are bothered about it ;-)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> seb128: oh, meeting report reminder!
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks seb128
<chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> i'd be better if i didn't have to drop everything to fix a bug i can't even reproduce though ;)
<jibel> Sweetshark, ping
<Sweetshark> jibel: pong
<jibel> Sweetshark, hey, I have setup an environment in the lab that builds LO periodically
<jibel> it's currently setup to build from the pre-release PPA on Quantal
<jibel> Sweetshark, the results are here https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/quantal-pkg-libreoffice/
<Sweetshark> lemme guess, you want a 3.6 beta building against gcc 4.6 on quantal?
<jibel> Sweetshark, it's using 4.7 currently
<jibel> and fails on i386 as expected
<jibel> Sweetshark, amd64 builds but make check fail
<jibel> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/quantal-pkg-libreoffice/ARCH=amd64,label=albali/26/
<jibel> Sweetshark, is there any log I should collect from the build env when check fail ?
<Sweetshark> not as it is now, but with next upload (for quantal), ./debian/rules should set "ulimit -c unlimited" if you have gdb installed and that should give us a helpful stacktrace from the crashers ...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<Sweetshark> s/stacktrace/stacktraces/
<Sweetshark> jibel: however, I am trying to force gcc=4.6 on quantal for now -- I dont see these issues on gcc-4.6.
<Sweetshark> jibel: so, it might be interesting to see if those are indeed introduced by gcc 4.7
<Sweetshark> see https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-prereleases/+sourcepub/2504240/+listing-archive-extra for the current build of beta on quantal (hopefully against 4.6)
<jibel> Sweetshark, ok, I updated the source and it's building.
<Sweetshark> jibel: as for archiving artifacts from that: while the logs should be a lot more helpful already with the new version and gdb around (because they then have stacktraces), it might actually be interesting to get the core dumps in the long run.
<Sweetshark> jibel: they should be generated by the build system then and might be rather helpful in debugging the issues ...
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hiya!
<seb128> Laney, librhythmbox-core5_2.97-0ubuntu1_i386.deb contains librhythmbox-core.so.6
<seb128> Laney, can you fix?
<Laney> args
<Laney> yes
<Laney> i'll merge it from debian, was going to do that anyway
<seb128> Laney, sorry for not spotting that when sponsoring, I just trusted the update and uploaded, I noticed today because it's in Debian NEW and I looked what binary changed
<seb128> Laney, thanks
 * Laney configures sbuild to run lintian
<valentin_mu> hi guys, i have problems with google earth package - i see corrupted chars everywhere, have no menu "File"
<valentin_mu>  i tryed both deb from google and deb made by googleearth-package - they both have problems
<cyphermox> seb128: mvo: re https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareAndUpdatesSettings . I'd like to start implementing the Drivers tab; but if it's all supposed to be stuff in our control center, seems like pretty high effort to reimplement the whole software-properties thing in g-c-c before being "able to" add drivers.
<cyphermox> OTOH, if the plan is to have this in software-properties for now, I guess it's much simpler
<seb128> cyphermox, can we embed python in g-c-c? I think we can't right?
<seb128> cyphermox, well I was not at the session at UDS, did we sign to make it a proper panel?
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you remember what was stupid us to make panels in i.e python?
<pitti> seb128: we didn't use the shell for a long time, so it didn't matter :)
<cyphermox> seb128: I have no idea on python in g-c-c
<cyphermox> seb128: ok, so from what I see in the blueprint perhaps I'm jumping ahead a little bit
<pitti> rodrigo_ looked into this, and AFAIR it was by and large "won't do"
<seb128> pitti, well I think the "embed python" was discussed for u1 or similar in oneiric
<cyphermox> there's no question of g-c-c in there, just software-properties
<seb128> cyphermox, I would say "implement the design in software-properties" to start, we can do the "port to a g-c-c panel" later one, I think we do that most of the code will be able to be reused
<cyphermox> yes, most likely
<seb128> pitti, do you remember if there was a technical limitation that blocked i.e python panels?
<pitti> seb128: I don't know the details, I'm afraid (I never did)
<seb128> pitti, I guess the loader code would need to be updated, it's loaded .so atm
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<seb128> cyphermox, so, yeah, forget about g-c-c in a first time
<cyphermox> g-c-what?
<dobey> gcc. not needed for python :)
<seb128> cyphermox, exactly ;-)
<cyphermox> gah, glade dies on me
<jbicha> hmm, gnome-documents recommends unoconv which needs python-uno which pulls in libreoffice-core & -common
<cyphermox> cute.
<cyphermox> seb128: pitti: well, it's started; I'll get on looking at how I can display the information, but I'm keeping all in lp:~mathieu-tl/software-properties/additional-drivers
<seb128> cyphermox, great
<cyphermox> UI is already there
<seb128> cyphermox, you got glade to behave? ;-)
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> it was crashing because of the overlay scrollbars, somewhere in cairo
<cyphermox> thanks for reminding me, I should file a bug about this ;)
<seb128> you should yes!
<seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson, Sweetshark, cyphermox, mlankhorst, Ursula, Laney, tkamppeter, mterry, kenvandine: 10 minutes before meeting if anyone has a topic to discuss
<didrocks> seems there is nothing planned on the wiki yet :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i really should add something to the wiki ;)
<chrisccoulson> can i assign someone bug 1010466? thanks! :-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010466 in firefox "dropdown boxes on sites stop working" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010466
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you would feel jalous if we steal it from you :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, no, i wouldn't mind ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, no agenda items from me
 * kenvandine is trying to get info for a partner update, but getting ignored
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you manage to reproduce?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I guess reassign to micahg if he can reproduce it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet. and none of the reporters have responded yet. i've tried using unity 2d all day, just in case ;)
<seb128> micahg, could you have a look to https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010466 if you are able to trigger the issue? we are not...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010466 in firefox "dropdown boxes on sites stop working" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that makes sense
<micahg> seb128: I could only reproduce in thunderbird, and even then, I don't think it was every time
<seb128> micahg, can you try to see if you can get it again? it might be useful to have somebody around who can reproduce to get us debug infos at least
<micahg> seb128: sure
<chrisccoulson> the timestamps in X events are in units of milliseconds, aren't they?
<chrisccoulson> actually, may be one for #ubuntu-x
<bryceh> chrisccoulson, yep
<chrisccoulson> bryceh, ah, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> (sorry, just asked on #ubuntu-x as well) ;)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys! :)
<seb128> pitti, are you still around?
<bigon> pitti: I've seen you name in the consolekit changelog, so maybe you will have more clue than me
<bigon> are you around :)?
<jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell RAOF TheMuso just a reminder about the meeting, wiki and agenda items: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-06-12
<jasoncwarner_> and bryceh ^^
 * bryceh waves
<chrisccoulson> howdy people from the other hemisphere
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Hey there.
<chrisccoulson> hi TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Nice catch re unity and C++ ABIs.
<TheMuso> chrisccoulson: Not too bad thanks, yourself?
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, yeah, that was a fun one. and i've spent all day today tracking down another nice bug :)
<chrisccoulson> other than that, i'm not too bad thanks
 * TheMuso feels much more justified in not liking C++ to the point where he feels he'd rather not learn more than he absolutely has to.
<TheMuso> All this stuff that pops up with C++ ABIs and gcc issues every minor release puts me right off the language.
 * micahg likes C++ much more than the PHP he used to work with
<chrisccoulson> TheMuso, oh, C++ isn't too bad. it's the STL that sucks ;)
<TheMuso> Its not hard to be better than php. :)
<TheMuso> Yeah but thats rather heavily used afaik.
<jasoncwarner_> TheMuso robert_ancell RAOF bryceh doesn't look like any agenda items...so no meeting. please update the wiki when you get a chance.
 * micahg thought the purpose of the STL was to not have to reinvent the wheel
<chrisccoulson> the purpose of the STL is to make yourself suicidal :)
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner_: Done thank,
<TheMuso> thanks
<bryceh> jasoncwarner_, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-13
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF, how you looking with compositor for getting to robert_ancell this week? still on track?
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: Run into an unexpected snag - the xwayland server is a patch series on top of xserver 1.12 (which is fine, we've got a 1.12 PPA and we'll copy that to quantal next week or so), but the whole xserver tree got reindented between 1.12.0 and 1.12.2 (which we'll use).
<RAOF> So I'm just fixing that up, *then* I can hand off to robert_ancell :)
<jasoncwarner_> cool, sounds like a plan.
<jasoncwarner_> Thanks, man .
<MetrosenRJ> I would like to help you, I have a laptop with sis chipset video mirage 3672, I installed ubuntu 4.12 and the video was 800x600, I found searching on google one. deb file with the drivers sis 672 for version 4.12, installed and managed to resolution 1280x800, was visually more beautiful I can not run any video or the VLC by opening it gives to log out. Anyone know a solution?
<MetrosenRJ> anybody?
<MetrosenRJ> this channel has 127 people who use ubuntu and nobody is manifested
<MetrosenRJ> anyone know?
<AfC> manifested?
<thomi> RAOF: got a second?
<pitti> bigon: what's up?
<thumper> robert_ancell: ping
<robert_ancell> thumper, hep
<thumper> robert_ancell: have you got a few minutes to help thomi out with an X/lightDB thing?
<thomi> *lightDM
<thumper> lightDM
 * thumper sighs
<thumper> sausage fingers
<robert_ancell> sure
<thumper> robert_ancell: our AP machine isn't booting to lightDM
<thumper> but getting to a failsafe
<thumper> however if we kill X and restart lightDM, it works
<thumper> or something...
 * thumper looks at thomi
<robert_ancell> AP?
<thomi> autopilot
<thomi> one second
<robert_ancell> first thing is to look at /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log
<thomi> So there's some background info you may need :)
<thomi> We're PXE booting the live precise daily CD,  with NFS root FS. We get an error in the X log file, which says:
<thomi> [drm] failed to set drm interface version.
<thomi> Yesterday RAOF suggested that this may be because the drivers weren't loading
<thomi> I confirmed that the drivers *are* in fact loaded, so we formed the hypothesis that maybe there's a race condition between the drivers loading and X starting.
<RAOF> And rebuilding the initramfs so that the drivers are in there hasn't worked? Bah.
<thomi> I've just finished putting the drivers into the boot initrd, but I still get the same issue
<thomi> RAOF: yeah :(
<robert_ancell> hmm, so sounds like an X issue then
<robert_ancell> and/or lightdm is being started before the drm device is ready
<thomi> RAOF: any idea how I'd confirm that the modules are in fact being loaded as part of the initrd? I mean, I added them, and it still boots, but I'm not sure how to confirm that I've actually altered anything
<thomi> I can see where the drm module is loaded in the dmesg output, I guess that's a good sign
<RAOF> thomi: You can pass break=mount on the kernel command line; the boot process will then stop in the initramfs, and you should be able to modprobe/lsmod in there.
<thomi> RAOF: ahhh, OK, let me try that
<RAOF> Damnit. When will Debian have ddebs?
<RAOF> I don't *want* to add a colord-dbg package; that's less-than-pointless busywork that should be handled by the archive tools.
<ajmitch> RAOF: probably some time after they rely only on builds done on buildds
 * micahg sees RAOF writing DEP 12
<thomi> RAOF: OK, this is messing with my mind. The kernel appears to be booting version 3.4.0-3, but the initrd on the CD seems to be for 3.2.0-24
<RAOF> That would make things a bit weird :)
<RAOF> In particular, there's no way those drm modules would work ;)
<thomi> RAOF: well, I think it's not even loading the right initrd. I expected it to load /casper/initrd.lz
 * ajmitch wonders what daily image has 3.4.0
<thomi> but the files in that file are totally different to what I see from the busybox prompt
<micahg> ajmitch: I thought quantal would
<ajmitch> micahg: right, but thomi said it's a precise image, and 3.2.0-24 is the current kernel revision for precise
<thomi> the precise daily live CD seems to
<thomi> OK, so I must be doing this wrong
<ajmitch> not according to the manifest
<ajmitch> you're using the image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/precise/daily-live/current/ ?
<thomi> yes. To be precise (haha): cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/precise/daily-live/current/precise-desktop-i386.iso
<thomi> err, that's the rsync source
<thomi> so I may have made a few assumptions.
<thomi> The FS I see at the busybox prompt is the initrd FS, yes?
 * ajmitch would assume so, but doesn't know for certain
<thomi> hmm, it must be loading it from somewhere else then
<thomi> because none of my changes are showing up
<thomi> RAOF: do you know who I should bug to find out what I'm doing wring with this initrd thing? I can only think that I'm modifying totally the wrong thing.
<RAOF> thomi: My guess is that slangasek or cjwatson would probably know?
<thomi> hey - here's something interesting - I just hit Ctrl+D from the busybox prompt, and it booted straight into the desktop.
<thomi> which reinforces my beliefe that this is a race condition somehow
 * thomi tries to repeat
<thomi> yup, 2 from 2. maybe I fixed it by thinking at it really hard
<thomi> RAOF: OK, if I put ' break=mount ' on the kernel command line and exit from busybox (without doing anything) it works. If I take out the ' break=mount ' then it fails. It also seems that the drm module *is* being loaded as part of the initrd load.
<thomi> RAOF: so, any other ideas? ;)
<RAOF> So you get the initramfs prompt in the screen's native resolution?
<RAOF> Is this the equivalent of an amazingly, super, awesomely fast hard drive?
<thomi> RAOF: uhhh, I don't know - the machine is plugged in to a KVM... let me see if I can detect a screen resolution change
<RAOF> When you break=mount you should notice the initramfs prompt being at a nice high resolution; (generally) not the BIOS default 320x200/640x480.
<thomi> RAOF: yes, it jumps from the BIOS resolution of 720x400 to 1024x768
<RAOF> Ok, so it really is loading the drm module in the initramfs.
<thomi> seems so.
<RAOF> Is the boot really amazingly fast?
<thomi> uhhh, I wouldn't have said so.
<RAOF> I wonder what's racing, then.
<thomi> RAOF: about 10-12 seconds
<thomi> from the busybox prompt to X starting when it works.
<RAOF> It certainly *seems* like a race, but that should be easily enough for drm to settle down, especially since it's loading so early.
<thomi> I can take out the break=mount and count again if you want
<RAOF> Maybe? I'm not really sure. Perhaps apw would be helpful; he's dealt with drm race conditions from the kernel side before.
<thomi> RAOF: OK, A few more hours till he gets online I guess
<thomi> RAOF: seems about the same boot time
<RAOF> That doesn't seem fast enough to be the sort of race I'm thinking about; my systems boot in about that time, too.
<thomi> right
<RAOF> Is there any *other* initialisation that occurs during livecd boot that doesn't occur normally?
<thomi> also, this used to work, I'm reasonably sure that I've eliminated anything *I've* done from the mix, which leaves... I dunno - a change in the daily CD maybe?
<RAOF> Happen to remember *when* this worked?
<thomi> I can look it up, one second
<thomi> June 7th
<thomi> thing is, I was changing things at the time, but as I say, I've spent a couple of days removing all the changes I was making at the time
<BigWhale> Good Morning.
<RAOF> thomi: You mean the *precise* livecd worked on the 7th of June this year?
<thomi> yup
<RAOF> That surely hasn't changed since 12.04 release!
<thomi> I figured maybe we still produce daily CD builds that contain stuff coming in the SRU?
<thomi> I guess not
<ajmitch> the cd images are dated later than the 7th, surely they're for 12.04.1?
<didrocks> good morning
<thomi> ajmitch: that makes sense
<thomi> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey thomi!
<thomi> RAOF: I've just re-run a build without *any* customisations - just extract the ISO and go, with the same results.
<thomi> so is there a way to see what changes have been made to the CD daily ISOs in terms of packages & changelogs?
<RAOF> thomi: And does the 12.04 release livecd (still) work?
<thomi> RAOF: good idea, I'll check...
<ajmitch> thomi: you can diff the manifests
<thomi> trying this one: /releases/precise/release/ubuntu-12.04-dvd-i386.iso
<thomi> ...with the same results
<RAOF> Which suggests that perhaps it's *not* a change in the CDs.
<thomi> RAOF: Yeah. I'll try and catch apw this evening and see what he says.
<RAOF> thomi: It's really strange if your setup used to work with the same CD images.
<thomi> indeed
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<tjaalton> how does one get more kbd layout options to the unity-greeter? some langsupport packages installed or..
<seb128> tjaalton, the greeter list your user layouts, just add one to your user session
<seb128> tjaalton, i.e that's by user, corresponding to the selected user
<tjaalton> seb128: and what if a user has never logged in?
<seb128> tjaalton, you get only the system layout
<tjaalton> ok
<tjaalton> and what if it's on a large setup where you first need to enter your username? same thing?
<tjaalton> silly questions i get :)
<tjaalton> guess it's a regression compared to gdm that you can't select the layout from the installed ones
<tjaalton> from the login screen
<seb128> tjaalton, sorry, I didn't read the channel for a bit
<seb128> tjaalton, regression, design choice, I think the GTK greeter has a language selector
<seb128> tjaalton, it's a greeter thing really, not a lightdm thing
<seb128> tjaalton, you would like a flat list of over an hundred keymaps?
<seb128> tjaalton, we tried that for a bit, the indicator was just impossible to use
<tjaalton> gtk-greeter doesn't have it
<tjaalton> well even a static list of things to choose from, that the admin approves as 'supported' or such
<tjaalton> also this is apparently still true :) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/917144/comments/8
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 917144 in unity-greeter "Other ... option is missing" [Low,Confirmed]
<tjaalton> unrelated to my question though
<seb128> tjaalton, the gtk greeter has a language selector option for sure (it might not be one by default), not sure if that includes keymaps though
<seb128> tjaalton, having a "default list of keymaps" or "always listed keymaps" merged with the user list seems a reasonable request
<seb128> tjaalton, can you file a request with a described usecase on unity-greeter
<seb128> tjaalton, the "other" stuff was an "hot" topic with design, they found in user testing that this entry was confusing lot of desktop users...
<tjaalton> seb128: sure thing, thanks
<seb128> tjaalton, not sure what we can do out of having different configs, greeters for desktop cases and corporates ones
<tjaalton> the "other" issue isn't an issue for my friend, apparently they have just "Login" now, so maybe the bug could be closed, dunno
<seb128> tjaalton, well, that's a configure think, you get "login" if you hide the users list
<seb128> tjaalton, but by default you have the user list and no "other" option
<seb128> so if you get non listed users you need to tweak your config to be able to enter an username
<tjaalton> from that bug it would seem that with "greeter-hide-users=true" they got "other" and "guest", but meh
<seb128> tjaalton, right, that's what I was trying to say, if you hide the userlist (which is the option you just mentioned) you get the entry
<tjaalton> seb128: let Esko file it, bug 1012560. marked it confirmed/low for now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1012560 in unity-greeter "unity-greeter should offer a configuration option for defining "supported" keymaps for selection" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012560
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks
<chrisccoulson> good morninge veryone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. but a bit tired
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<Sweetshark> moin!
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you do late hacking again?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i was investigating this bug quite late
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the focus one?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you find anything?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's a unity 2d bug :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/2505509/+listing-archive-extra fixes it
<chrisccoulson> the panel sends the wrong timestamp when closing a window
<chrisccoulson> it sends the system time rather than the X timestamp
<chrisccoulson> really silly ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I knew it! damn unity 2d :p
<chrisccoulson> thanks to artnay for helping debug this over IRC too :)
<bigon> pitti: re consolekit, well I'm trying to figureout when a new session must me started
<bigon> and I saw a patch from you in the pam connector
<rickspencer3> seb128, it seems that KDE is having some ongoing problems in the archives?
<rickspencer3> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/quantal_probs.html
<rickspencer3> and I guess calligra is not building at all on ARM?
<seb128> rickspencer3, the current version failed to build apparently
<rickspencer3> seb128, this has been dangling for some days
<rickspencer3> is someone from Kubuntu working on it?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I don't know but I will find out ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, ok, thanks
<rickspencer3> the Kubuntu community should be on top of their quality in the archive
<seb128> yeah, makes sense
<rickspencer3> seb128,  feel free to escalate to jasoncwarner_ if you need someone to follow up with them
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> thanks for pointing the issue ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, shouldn't you comment on the firefox bug to point them to your test package or reassign to unity-2d or something?
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<seb128> mvo, hey, you or glatzor should make the bugs of the aptdaemon SRU which is the queue SRU compliant
<seb128> mvo, i.e testcase, regression potential, impact at least
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, sorry. i've commented and reassigned it now (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/1010466/comments/22) ;)
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1010466 in unity-2d "dropdown boxes on sites stop working" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> popey, didrocks: ^ we need that SRUed please
<didrocks> where is sil2100?
<didrocks> popey: can you pass it on?
<seb128> popey, didrocks: chrisccoulson has a patch for it
<didrocks> anyway, the -2d SRU is still blocked on the C++ case
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you merge request it for lp:unity-2d?
<MrChrisDruif> I thought unity-2d would get dropped?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i think we need to handle the SRU, as it has to go through *-security
 * didrocks looks
<chrisccoulson> (well, micahg needs to handle it) :)
<seb128> MrChrisDruif, it will, it's shipped in precise though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, why was that not an issue with firefox < 13?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, there was a change in firefox to use real timestamps in pointer grabs, to fix some other issues
<seb128> ok
<MrChrisDruif> Yeah, which wise guy didn't mention this in time for precise? ;-) Now we're stuck with it for 5 years =)
<chrisccoulson> then there was a whole bunch of changes on top of that which rely on the new behaviour ;)
<didrocks> popey: can you get unity-2d upstream reviewing the patch, getting it merged today, and then, we cherry-pick?
<chrisccoulson> else i would have reverted it for a bit
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<mvo> seb128: indeed, let me work on this next
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> mvo, nice to see those bugs fixed btw so kudos to glatzor and you ;-)
<popey> didrocks: yeah, will do, thanks
<didrocks> popey: this is urgent, we need a patch now
<didrocks> popey: well, the time for chrisccoulson's patch to get merged by upstream and so on
<didrocks> then cherry-pick in the current unity-2d package
<popey> ya
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100, popey: talk with micahg, that update will need to go through -security according to chrisccoulson since that's where the firefox update got shipped and the fix needs to reach the same set of users
<popey> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you put a merge request up yet?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, i wasn't sure what the process was for unity-2d :)
<chrisccoulson> want me to do that?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes please
<seb128> chrisccoulson, process, just do a merge request for lp:unity-2d
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, will do. thanks!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yw
<sil2100> seb128, didrocks, popey: so that I understand it correctly... this patch needs to be released urgently, without considering the other SRU patches for unity-2d?
<artnay> chrisccoulson: there's probably an issue with your patched unity-2d-launcher (launcher doesn't get drawn, can be only triggered with <super>) - also, the FX bug doesn't happen in unity-3d but it's still valid in unity-2d *and* gnome-shell
<didrocks> sil2100: indeed
<didrocks> sil2100: it needs to go through -security
<sil2100> So just a cherry pick to the current unity-2d version in precise?
<sil2100> ACK
<didrocks> sil2100: but still need to be reviewed upstream and merged
<sil2100> So for now we're waiting for a merge to unity-2d, right?
<chrisccoulson> artnay, i'm not sure how that could happen, as this is just a one liner to the panel code, which is quite isolated :/
<seb128> sil2100, then it needs to be merged as well in the normal SRU you plan to get out soon
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't touch anything in the launcher at all
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<popey> seb128: we need to line up -security to look at it though
<chrisccoulson> are you sure it didn't happen before?
<sil2100> seb128: ACK
<seb128> popey, yeah, get the update ready and talk to micahg to get it out
<artnay> chrisccoulson: 100% positive, started to happen only after updating to test1
<didrocks> seb128: well, it's a cherry-pick in the packaging branch, not relevant to talk about the normal SRU as it's unity-2d trunk
<chrisccoulson> hmmm :/
<didrocks> seb128: that's why I'm speaking about getting it merged to trunk first
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: we are not "waiting for a merge", you need to ping upstream and explain they need to review it
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> sil2100: ^
<popey> âº
<didrocks> that was for you :)
<sil2100> ;)
<didrocks> ETOOMANYs ;)
<sil2100> Was the MRQ requested already?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ^
<sil2100> chrisccoulson: ?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, sil2100, not yet. doing it now ;)
<sil2100> chrisccoulson: ping me once it's setup ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, sil2100 - https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/unity-2d/lp1010466/+merge/110075
<didrocks> thanks chrisccoulson
<sil2100> chrisccoulson: it's getting reviewed
<chrisccoulson> sil2100, thanks
<sil2100> hm, where did Chris go?
<MrChrisDruif> I'm right here?
<sil2100> The other Chris ... ;)
<MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, I figured ;-)
<sil2100> chrisccoulson: could you check the comment from the unity-2d guys on the MRQ?
<seb128> sil2100, he just did
<seb128> sil2100, i.e merge request updated
<sil2100> Approved \o/
<sil2100> Waiting for it to get merged and I'll cherry pick it
<sil2100> didrocks, seb128: how should I give it to the -security team?
<sil2100> Can I push it to some local branch for them to use for packaging?
<sil2100> Or should I prepare a source package?
<seb128> sil2100, either, like you would give to any packager or sponsor
<seb128> micahg, hey, are you there yet?
<sil2100> I'm pinging him, but I think he's still not around
<seb128> sil2100, it might be a bit early for him still
<didrocks> sil2100: you tested it on your machine as well, right? :)
<micahg> hi seb128
<seb128> micahg, hey
<seb128> micahg, chrisccoulson got a fix for unity-2d for the tb,firefox grab issue
<seb128> micahg, sil2100 has been backporting it and doing a package update, can you work with him to get that uploaded to -security?
<micahg> seb128: sure
<seb128> micahg, thanks
<seb128> sil2100, ^
<sil2100> micahg: how would you prefer to get the fix?
<micahg> sil2100: bzr branch or debdiff is fine, are there release specific branches or the UDD ones?
<sil2100> micahg: everything's in one branch
<sil2100> micahg: the source and distro packaging
<sil2100> I'll just double test if it's fine and send you the branch :)
<micahg> sil2100: we've got 3 unity-2d releases in stable
<sil2100> micahg: what are the version numbers?
<micahg> sil2100: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039238/, so we need it based on the version in -updates for oneiric and precise
<sil2100> micahg: since I'm first patching 5.12.0-0ubuntu1 from precise-updates
<micahg> sil2100: I can take them as you have them ready and start testing them, do we have a bug with a proper test case as well?
<sil2100> micahg: but only the versions from -updates, right? i.e. 5.12.0-0ubuntu1 and 4.12.0-0ubuntu1.1 ?
<sil2100> chrisccoulson: ^^
<micahg> sil2100: right, natty never got an update thusfar, so it'll be based on the release version
<sil2100> micahg: ACK, will ping you as soon as I set up everything
<micahg> sil2100: thanks
<micahg> sil2100: what time zone are you in BTW?
<sil2100> micahg: european, UTC+2 right now iirc
<sil2100> micahg: but I'll still be around for a while
<sil2100> didrocks: as the series, should I set precise-security etc.?
<didrocks> sil2100: indeed
<sil2100> didrocks: what about the version number? 5.12.0-0ubuntu2 ? (for precise)
<didrocks> sil2100: can be 1.1
<didrocks> 5.12.0-0ubuntu1.1
<sil2100> ACK
<sil2100> didrocks: could you ACK on https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-2d/precise-security ?
<sil2100> I mean, if the changelog is fine
<sil2100> etc.
<didrocks> looking
<didrocks> sil2100: everything looks fine to me, I see no gotcha :)
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks! Doing the same for the rest now
<didrocks> great
<didrocks> micahg: ^
<sil2100> (and testing)
<sil2100> micahg: hmm, there's no 4.12.0-0ubuntu2 for unity-2d on oneiric?
<micahg> sil2100: no, there's 1.1 in updates
<sil2100> Ok, doing it the rough way then
<micahg> didrocks: do you maintain post-release branches anywhere (just worrying if I need to modify the changelog)
<didrocks> micahg: we didn't for unity-2d yet as we didn't diverge, but it should be ~ubuntu-desktop/unity-2d/precise
<micahg> didrocks: what about oneiric and natty
<didrocks> it was still under ~unity-team IIRC, let me check :)
<didrocks> should be lp:unity-2d/4.0  for oneiric
<didrocks> and lp:unity-2d/3.0 for natty
<didrocks> but double checking is wanted
<didrocks> micahg: as it's quite dead right now, and trunk will be /precise soon, not sure if you want to store an additional maintain branch for precise, it's as you wish
<micahg> didrocks: ok, should I push changelog changes there?
<micahg> didrocks: I don't need it at all, I have the archive as a Vcs :)
<micahg> I just don't want to mess you up
<didrocks> micahg: no need then, the next SRU (coming soon) is based on trunk and contain the fix already
<didrocks> I'll just ensure we will have the changelog in it
<micahg> didrocks: ok, thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<sil2100> didrocks: well, lp:unity-2d/4.0 is for oneiric, but not oneiric-updates
<sil2100> didrocks: it seems one version got lost somewhere, eh
<didrocks> sil2100: ah, probably
<sil2100> didrocks: not a problem though
<didrocks> great :)
<sil2100> didrocks: I would need some advice though - since ubuntu1.1 from oneiric-updates uses a quilt patch for introducing the new changes
<sil2100> didrocks: should I do the same for ubuntu1.2 (our -security changes) ?
<micahg> Sweetshark: FWIW, you usually don't want to hijack an actual bug for a huge SRU, the bug is part of what you want to verify
<sil2100> i.e. adding a quilt patch? Or maybe just include it normally, without using any quilt patches?
<didrocks> sil2100: it's whatever you prefer, if you want to include it manually, you need to readd the missing upload though
<didrocks> sil2100: I would say rebase is the best :)
<sil2100> didrocks: rebase, you mean turning the ubuntu1.1 quilt patch into a bzr commit and then add our -security ubuntu1.2 patch on top of it directly to the source as well?
<sil2100> And requesting the ubuntu1.1 patch to unity-2d/4.0 ?
<didrocks> sil2100: exactly
<sil2100> (by a merge?)
<Sweetshark> micahg: I was asked to add the boilerplate there by seb128. I will just file a second bug "update to 3.x.x" next time and have in in the changelog too ..
<sil2100> Phew, ok - will do
<sil2100> ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: merge or push/pull is fine :)
<didrocks> sil2100: good luck!
<micahg> Sweetshark: thanks :), it also saves the people in the bug from seeing all the non-related SRU comments as well :)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: should I use the test case that I was give in #ubuntu-mozillateam yesterday for the unity issue or is there a simpler one?
<Sweetshark> cool, people are writing articles containing a TODO-list for my prerelease ;) http://www.webupd8.org/2012/06/libreoffice-360-beta-1-released-ubuntu.html
 * didrocks waves good evening
<micahg> chrisccoulson: still wondering about the test case for the unity update when you have a chance
<chrisccoulson> micahg, yeah, you can just use the case that triggered it yesterday
<micahg> chrisccoulson: not being able to right click is the symptom?
<chrisccoulson> it should be quite trivial to come up with a testcase from my explanation on the bug :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<micahg> ok, thans
<micahg> popey: I've got 3 symbols dropped from a rebuild of unity-2d (in unity-2d-panel): http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039608/
<seb128> micahg, that seems like qt symbols leaked?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ is that a side effect of your change?
<chrisccoulson> yes it is
<micahg> seb128: maybe
<chrisccoulson> those shouldn't be exposed at all
<seb128> yeah, it's a bit weird
<seb128> but, well, cpp, you can count for weirdness :p
 * micahg just doesn't want to break someone's panel app
<chrisccoulson> why are we checking exported ABI of private objects anyway?
<micahg> chrisccoulson: we generally run checks on symbols of all libraries, if it's not important, I'll ignore it, just wanted to check
<chrisccoulson> why do we do that? it seems pretty wasteful to check symbols on a private object that isn't used outside of that package
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't even have public headers
<chrisccoulson> that really is a waste of time :)
<micahg> chrisccoulson: it's part of the security team's tools, it just checks the symbols of all libs
<micahg> not all libs outside of /usr/lib/*/ are private unfortunately, so we can't train the tools to not check them, but as I said if it's not a problem, I'll ignore it
<sebas_> can any one help me to figure why the shutdown screen popups over and over again
<sebas_> ?
<jasoncwarner_> hey robert_ancell , wanted to follow up on the seb128 comment last night about GTK 3.5 and you unblocking it...how are we looking?
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, yeah, I can make it not crash, so I think that's the best solution
<robert_ancell> it will look a bit wrong, but that's for ps to fix
<robert_ancell> we really can't hold everything up for them
<jasoncwarner_> thanks robert_ancell , do you know if cimi is on it right now? (I'll follow up there anyway)
<jasoncwarner_> agreed
<jasoncwarner_> thanks for unstucking it
<jasoncwarner_> unsticking
<jasoncwarner_> unstucked?
<thumper> hi
<jasoncwarner_> hey thumper
<thumper> who do we have as a pango fixer?
<thumper> jasoncwarner_: anything we need to talk about?
<jasoncwarner_> thumper: I can't answer the pango question... robert_ancell or RAOF , do you happen to know who cares after that?
<robert_ancell> thumper, yep, we handle that
<thumper> robert_ancell: awesome
<thumper> robert_ancell: we have some memory leaks in pango we'd love to be fixed
<thumper> I'm sure we even have a trivial sample C file somewhere
<robert_ancell> thumper, bug links?
<thumper> which shows leaks in valgrind
<thumper> thomi: do you know of the pango leak bug?
<thumper> robert_ancell: I may have to get back to you on that
<thomi> yeah
<thumper> robert_ancell: but if I know you can help... that's awesome
<thomi> uhh, I filed a bug in the GBZ
<thomi> I also have a simple C app that reproducesd it
<thomi> I was told that it's down to pango's use of StaticMutex, which apparently has been deprecated
<thomi> robert_ancell: hmmm, I can't find the bug in bugzilla anymore. But I still have 'pango_leak.c' - would you like a copy?
<robert_ancell> thomi, sure
<robert_ancell> thomi, open a lp bug with it
<thomi> good idea
<thomi> hmm, maybe I already did
<thomi> robert_ancell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/837145
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 837145 in unity "Memory leak in pango_layout_get_extents" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<thomi> to get it to leak, define DO_LEAK when you build it
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-14
<robert_ancell> thomi, this patch seems to fix it for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1039976/.  Not sure if I'm missing anything there, seems to be simple
<robert_ancell> to be too simple
<thomi> hahaaaa!
<thomi> So what do we do now?
<robert_ancell> thomi, open an upstream bug and see what they say, patch the ubuntu package if they take too long and we think it's a good patch
<thomi> cool.
<robert_ancell> thomi, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678059
<ubot2> Gnome bug 678059 in general "memory leak in pango_layout_get_extents" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<thomi> robert_ancell: wonderful, thanks. I'll keep ane ye on it
<robert_ancell> thomi, does this effect precise?
<thomi> robert_ancell: yes
<robert_ancell> thomi, are you familiar with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates?
<thomi> robert_ancell: uhhh, I am now
<thomi> robert_ancell: I guess that gets done by whoever manages the pango packages for us?
<robert_ancell> thomi, well, for it to qualify as an SRU we need to know how severe the problem is, can you describe how much of a problem it is in precise?  i.e. is it just a few k here and there or does it bring unity to a halt over time
<robert_ancell> I can do the rest
<robert_ancell> brb
<thomi> robert_ancell: that's hard to say with certainly. I don't think anyone has reported that unity dies because of this leak, but it certainly shows up in our valgrind logs a lot. By my estimate, at least 20% of all the leaks reported by valgrind  are this pango issue
<robert_ancell> thomi, so is it worth backporting?
<thomi> I think so. We should probably see what thumper thinks
<robert_ancell> oh, he's gone offline
<robert_ancell> ok, well prod him some and he can get back to me if he thinks it is worth it
<robert_ancell> it's in quantal now
<robert_ancell> and upstream accepted the patch
<thomi> robert_ancell: awesome, thanks. He should be abck online soon, I'll ask him
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You're the proud owner of a radeon card in your devel rig, right?
<thumper> robert_ancell: have you fixed that bug already?
<thomi> thomas
<thomi> oops, entirely the wrong window
<robert_ancell> RAOF, nah, I got rid of that machine
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Ah, so you're an intel man now? Superb.
<RAOF> Or, indeed nouveau. Both of those have less crackful xwayland patches ;)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, so we can be blissfully unaware of problems?
<RAOF> No, so I can unblock you without rewriting the radeon patch first.
<robert_ancell> cool
<didrocks> good morning
<micahg> hi didrocks, just the person I need :)
<micahg> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1040330/
<micahg> that's in natty
<didrocks> micahg: hey, this is the package sil2100 gave to you?
<micahg> didrocks:  yep
<didrocks> hum, let's see with him, when he's around
<didrocks> micahg: I'm not even sure what was used
<didrocks> micahg: has this been uploaded?
<micahg> didrocks: it built fine on oneiric and precise
<didrocks> well, the branches are different ;)
<micahg> didrocks: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity-2d/natty-security/revision/549
<didrocks> micahg: thanks, I'll check with him
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, lut, en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, et toi? :)
<seb128> nickel ;-)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
 * pitti waves to the desk-TOP!-ers
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> gut, danke!
<seb128> pitti, how is QA doing? ;-)
<pitti> was a bit tired this morning, went to bed late
<pitti> but the game was great to watch
<seb128> pitti, 2 wins in 2 games, not bad ;-)
<pitti> seb128: fairly well indeed! I'm posting my progress to G+ (QA team policy), if you are intested
<pitti> seb128: I just finished my remaining "desktop backlog" work items, ported more stuff to python3 (language-selector, ubuntu-drivers-common, etc.)
<pitti> great to see aptdaemon-py3 in quantal now
<seb128> great
<pitti> seb128: so I concentrate on the autopkgtests now
<pitti> I worked on udisks2's test suite upstream, and now want to make it succeed in jenkins
<pitti> it already uncovered two real and nontrivial bugs, so it's so worth having
<pitti> once udisks is covered, I go "up" to gvfs
<pitti> that's my current plan, anyway
<pitti> seb128: yeah, Gomez is on fire :)
<seb128> cool, I'm looking forward that ;-)
<Sweetshark> moin!
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<didrocks> hey pitti ;)
<seb128> pitti, jenkins says that udisk2 testing is red? first step set it up, next step make it work...? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks, pitti: heya
<didrocks> good morning Sweetshark
<pitti> seb128: right; need to find out why "modprobe scsi_debug" fails in that VM
<pitti> seb128: same problem as in the old udisks 1 adt
<seb128> oh, ok
<pitti> it says "memory error", but that has 4 GB of RAM
<glatzor> mvo, mpt hello michael, is there an easy way to get a package -> application from software-center?
<seb128> hey glatzor, how are you?
<glatzor> mvo, mpt would like to merge error notification dialogs ("your cache is broken") and resolution confirmation dialog ("do you want to remove the following packages to repair your cache?") into a single dialog
<glatzor> seb128, hello, I am fine! and yourself?
<seb128> glatzor, I'm good thanks
<mvo> glatzor: yes, you can use something like db=softwarecenter.db.database.StoreDatabase(); db.get_apps_for_pkgname("foo") and that will give you a bunch of docids that you can then use to get the real application object
<seb128> glatzor, thanks for the aptdaemon SRU, could you make the bugs SRU compliant though (impact, test case, regression potential), the SRU team will not review it until that's done, they started being strict on that because we had too many SRUs not testable or tested without those infos and they were never moving to -updates
<chrisccoulson> good morning desktop team
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good morning firefox team ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you today?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, a bit tired but good otherwise
<seb128> looking forward the end of week :p
<glatzor> mvo, so a possible way could be to add an optional argument to AptErrorDialog. I would like to avoid a software-center dependency on python3-gtk3widgets :)
<mvo> glatzor: I'm adding testcases now if you could double check them once I'm done, that would be awsome
<mvo> glatzor: haha, understandable
<glatzor> mvo, if the package_app_mapper is specified the error dialog will show applications instead of packages
<mvo> glatzor: sounds good
<mvo> glatzor: building r840 gives me test failures, that is known, right?
<glatzor> mvo, aptdaemon is now aware of the internet connection (a side effect of the pkcompat) so I could improve the download failed dialogs on the daemon side
<glatzor> mvo, 845 is the way to go
<glatzor> mvo,  the test suite is now in a good shape.
<mvo> glatzor: aha, so I was just outdated
<glatzor> mvo, funnily packagekit will in the futrure support parallel transactions. I think about enabling this already now in pkcompat :)
<mvo> glatzor: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1040491/ is what I get from r845 in bzr-buildpackage
<mvo> glatzor: I added testcases to the bugs in the SRU now, please double check if you have time
<mvo> glatzor: aha, that seems to be something in quantal, looking at this now
<mvo> glatzor: nothing releated to your code :)
<mvo> glatzor: so are we good to upload? I will update the changelog (if you are not on it already)
<glatzor> mvo, should I invite ubuntu-core-dev to aptdaemon-developers?
<mvo> glatzor: sounds good
<mvo> glatzor: I will also fix the lintian*tags* rename in the .install file
<mvo> glatzor: ubuntu-quantal branch is updated, so I can upload whenever you want
<mvo> glatzor: one file overwrite issue in fake-polkit.py, so python3-aptdaemon.test and python-aptdaemon.test can not be installed at the same time, should that go to aptdaemon instead?
<glatzor> mvo, sorry I am away for some time. see you then
<mvo> glatzor: so I fix it in whatever way I see fit? or shall I wait ;) ?
<didrocks> waow, crash inside the intel driver
<seb128> go intel ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: it's all because of you! I took intel because you never had issues with it :)
<seb128> I still don't have issues! ;-)
<didrocks> and one small crash to completely changed my mind, of course :p
<glatzor> hello mvo
<glatzor> mvo, I am on the train now so the connection could be a little bit flanky
<glatzor> mvo, I updated ubuntu-quantal since we can now drop the test_suite_fixes
<mvo> glatzor: aha, ok
<mvo> glatzor: I updated it as well :)
<mvo> glatzor: so the delay from 0.5s -> 2.5s  is no longer needed?
<mvo> glatzor: I don't see a (new) commit in ubuntu-quantal, did you push this yet?
<glatzor> mvo, it is still required. But I changed it in upstream
<mvo> glatzor: ok
<mvo> glatzor: thanks, I updated the quantal branch to point to r846 now
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-June/001310.html heh, Ubuntu/Canonical will just grow itself some mor people comfortable to review LibreOffice commits ;->
<seb128> Sweetshark, lol
<seb128> good luck to them ;-)
<Sweetshark> riight
<glatzor> mvo, I haven't tried the simulate test on a build daemon. so this issue could still exist. but perhaps it was just a side effect of another patch
<glatzor> test
<mvo> glatzor: oh, good to know, lets see
<mvo> glatzor: I can alway add it back if it ftbfs
<glatzor> mvo, mpt, so what do you think about a aptdaemon.gtk3widgets.SmartErrorDialog ?
<glatzor> thanks mvo
<glatzor> mvo, I would like to make this re-usable by sessioninstaller and update-manager
<glatzor> mvo see you
<chrisccoulson> oh, that gnome-settings-daemon crash is i386 only?
<chrisccoulson> fun ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is it?
<seb128> i386 users are nice people, why so much hate :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it looks like it
<seb128> indeed
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'll ask for someone to get a valgrind log whilst i set up a more appropriate environment
<chrisccoulson> just in case something tramples over the GOT :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, GOT?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you can grab mterry when he gets online, he was complaining about how annoying the issue is the other day
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he can probably get you a valgrind ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the global offset table. the GOT entry will either have a pointer back to the plt (to call in to the linker), or a pointer to the real function
<chrisccoulson> but if that gets overwritten, then it will go quite wrong :)
<seb128> oh ok
<chrisccoulson> seb128, also, rebuilding gnome-settings-daemon with LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro,-z,now would expose if the issue is memory corruption
<chrisccoulson> as that would make it crash where the error occurs :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: FYI, I juts got bug #196058, had to edit the file manually to get it back to not fullscreen
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 196058 in thunderbird "Thunderbird starts in a full-screen mode and cannot be restored" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196058
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, fun ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I wouldn't use that term TBH ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, i meant it is fun for me ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: you have weird ways of enjoying bugs ;)
<seb128> didrocks, heh, he was on my g-s-d plt "fun" first, keep your party for later ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I don't care, I edited the file and it's fine for me. Seems the issue isn't new though (from 2008)
<seb128> k ;-)
<chrisccoulson> DENIED!
<chrisccoulson> "PPA exceeded its size limit (4452.00 of 4096.00 MiB)"
<chrisccoulson> oh, fantastic! no crash on i386 for me here ;)
<chrisccoulson> i guess mterry will need to feed me information :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you got a mterry!
<seb128> mterry, hey ;-) how are you ?
<chrisccoulson> hi mterry!
<mterry> uh oh
<seb128> mterry, too late to pretend not being here :p
<seb128> lol
<mterry> What's up?
<seb128> mterry, chrisccoulson is looked at the plt g-s-d issue
<seb128> mterry, he needs debug infos from you
<seb128> mterry, since you get the issue
<mterry> seb128, ah yeah, I saw his comment go by.  chrisccoulson, you want valgrind output?
<chrisccoulson> mterry, yes please :)
<chrisccoulson> i can't seem to recreate it here
<seb128> mterry, are you on the valgrind thing or should I give it a try (I can but I don't want to dup work if you started)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, really? interesting.  I uploaded a valgrind
<mterry> seb128, sorry, I got delayed, but it's there now
<seb128> mterry, np, you are on i386 right?
<mterry> seb128, yup
<mterry> i386 4 eva
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ==26228== Invalid read of size 4
<seb128> ==26228==    at 0x1027EF00: ??? (in /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon-3.0/libmouse.so)
<seb128> ==26228==    by 0x10281EC4: gsd_mouse_manager_idle_cb (gsd-mouse-manager.c:1124)
<seb128> tadada
<seb128> I wonder why the first frame lacks symbols when the second one has the infos
<desrt> wow.  as if you need more than 3 lines in order to know exactly what the problem is there
<mterry> seb128, because the first frame is the plt magic.  probably doesn't correspond to a given line
<seb128> mterry, could be yes
<seb128> desrt, the log is longer than that, I didn't want to flood the channel ;-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1007588/+attachment/3189382/+files/valgrind.log
<ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1007588 in gnome-settings-daemon "[mouse]: gnome-settings-daemon SIGSEGV in gdk_device_manager_list_devices@plt()" [High,Confirmed]
<desrt> seb128: i wasn't being sarcastic. totally classic class of problem
<desrt> and it always has exactly one of two solutions
<desrt> the problem is that someone dispatches an idle then destroys the object before the idle has a chance to run
<desrt> the solutions:
<desrt> 1) have the idle itself hold a ref on the object and free it from the handler function
<desrt> 2) when scheduling the idle, save the source ID number and cancel it from the finalize of the object, if pending
<seb128> desrt, weird think is that this issue just happens on i386 when building with gcc 4.7
<seb128> desrt, precise with gcc 4.6 with the same gtk and g-s-d has no bug
<desrt> seb128: it's probably an issue on the other platforms too, but you 'get lucky'
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
<desrt> these kinds of errors are so common all over GNOME that i'd hesitate quite a lot to finger gcc
<seb128> desrt, well, we got 0 of those issues in precise, the code didn't change and we get a lot of this in quantal after a rebuild, and people said that rebuilding on gcc 4.6 "fixes" it
<chrisccoulson> mterry, seb128, thanks. will look in a few moments
<seb128> but yeah, maybe for some reason we get "lucky" and the code generated by gcc 4.6 is on the right side of the race :p
<desrt> huh
<desrt> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=e98c9079eec9cd9f6f27dd7813d96d6ba536e6c2
<desrt> ^ should have fixed that bug
<mterry> desrt, I don't think this is a classic idle callback bug.  It's dying in the plt code for handling shared libraries
<desrt> ya...
<desrt> i'm starting to agree
<desrt> now that i see that the bug got fixed over a year ago
<desrt> it used to be a classic idle bug ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't think it's that either
<chrisccoulson> although, i was hoping to see an invalid write in the valgrind log
<chrisccoulson> damn ;)
<chrisccoulson> mterry, this is easy for you to reproduce?
<desrt> one more possibility
<desrt> this is a plugin, right?
<desrt> is it possible that the plugin is unloaded when the idle fires?
 * desrt takes that back because of the proper cancelling...
<mterry> chrisccoulson, every time
<chrisccoulson> mterry, and the trigger is changing your monitor resolution?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, no, the trigger is just doing nothing.  The bug has some misleading data about monitors, but it has nothing to do with that
<mterry> chrisccoulson, if I just wait a few seconds, it will crash
<chrisccoulson> mterry, oh, that makes more sense
<chrisccoulson> thanks!
<mterry> I've been living unthemed for a while.  :(
<chrisccoulson> ok, i'll try again in a second
 * desrt thinks chrisccoulson and mterry get to spend the next 3 days performing the fun task of reducing this crash to an irrefutable testcase to present to doko
<desrt> (or finding the real bug on the way...)
<chrisccoulson> heh
 * chrisccoulson fires up kvm again
<chrisccoulson> mterry, it still isn't crashing here. could you make it crash again in gdb please, and show me the output of "info registers"? :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, yup!
<mterry> chrisccoulson, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1040903/
<chrisccoulson> mterry, thanks
<chrisccoulson> oh my
<chrisccoulson> ebx            0x0
<chrisccoulson> that's meant to be the base address of the got :)
<chrisccoulson> i guess that's where the "invalid read at address 0x38" comes from in your valgrind log
<chrisccoulson> this is going to be fun
<chrisccoulson> mterry, ok, could you try again please, but this time do "watch $ebx == 0x0"?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, sure
<chrisccoulson> hopefully you will hit that once, be able to get a stacktrace, and when you continue you should hopefully see it crash
<chrisccoulson> fingers crossed :)
<mterry> ok, I hit the breakpoint
<chrisccoulson> excellent
<mterry> chrisccoulson, do you want a dump of registers every time I hit the watch point?
<chrisccoulson> mterry, just a stacktrace. are you hitting it more than once?
<chrisccoulson> i was hoping it would just be once :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, oh, I see your above comment
<mterry> chrisccoulson, yah, all over the place
<chrisccoulson> mterry, and it's always a different call stack?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, yeah mostly
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's a shame
<mterry> chrisccoulson, I can send some of them to you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can take a look
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<mterry> chrisccoulson, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1040940/
<chrisccoulson> mterry, oh, of course. it might be better to first break on main, and then set up the watch
<chrisccoulson> to get all of the linker stuff out of the way first :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, k, will do
<mterry> chrisccoulson, now I'm going through a bunch of locale loading.  hopefully it will end soon
<seb128> mterry, restart it, break on main, once you hit it, add the break on ebx
<seb128> that should be easier
<mterry> seb128, that's what I did
<mterry> setlocale is after main
<mterry> parse args also does some similar things...
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's a pain :(
<mpt> mvo, do you know what glatzor meant by "aptdaemon.gtk3widgets.SmartErrorDialog"?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, now I'm getting some from the plugin loads
<mvo> mpt: I think he means that apps need removing when fixing broken dependencies
<mvo> mpt: i.e. instead of saying "the package gedit-foo needs rmoeval" he wants to show reall appname and icon
<mpt> mvo, that would be nifty. I sketched that dialog at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwarePackageOperations#broken>, but showing real application names would be a great improvement.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, mterry: can't you script gdb to bt, c automatically when it reach those b?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, and look at the log what was the last bt before the segfault?
<mterry> seb128, ooh
<seb128> mterry, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2388799/automate-gdb-show-backtrace-at-every-call-to-function-puts
<mterry> I forgot gdb could do that
<seb128> mterry, something like that?
<mterry> yah, just a simple bt; c should do
 * mterry waits for next natural break
<chrisccoulson> heh, i should remember how to do that too :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, OK, commands set.  It will still take some time to get results.  It's really slow when it has to watch that register
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine :)
 * mpt wonders idly about dropping the "Statistics" tab from Software Sources
<seb128> mpt, move it to the privacy panel in system settings?
<mpt> seb128, ooh, good idea
<mpt> If we're not careful, though, soon we'll end up with people sending their software inventory in three different ways: USC recommendations, metrics, and popcon
<Laney> I wonder if that panel shouldn't be protected by your password
<seb128> mpt, that's a good point, I'm not sure popcon has ever been a good metric, we should perhaps just drop it
<Laney> it's likely to be a place where you note down stuff you'd rather other people not see
<seb128> Laney, your keyring is not protected by your password, why would that panel be?
<seb128> Laney, if somebody got physical access to your user account you are screwed anyway
<mpt> Oh, not three ways. Four. With the fourth being OneConf. :-)
<seb128> Laney, same for i.e your firefox passwords
<Laney> I'm not talking about the sophisticated attacker here
<Laney> but yes, those could be protected too
<Laney> but creating a false sense of security is probably a valid argument against doing it
<seb128> Laney, I don't need to be a sophisticated attacker, if I've access to your email I can read your email, user your webbrowser to connect to any of the site you stored credential for, etc
<seb128> if I've access to your account*
<seb128> Laney, I don't think the infos in that panel are sensitive over i.e emails
<seb128> mpt, yeah, let's drop popcon ... want to email ubuntu-devel to suggest that?
<chrisccoulson> mterry, is it still going?
<mterry> chrisccoulson, yes
<chrisccoulson> mterry, oh, i didn't expect it to take this long :)
<chrisccoulson> i hope this turns out to be worthwhile
<chrisccoulson> i wouldn't want to waste your time ;)
<chrisccoulson> micahg, what's happening with bug 1010466?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010466 in unity-2d "dropdown boxes on sites stop working" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010466
<micahg> chrisccoulson: natty didn't build, waiting to hear back
<chrisccoulson> micahg, hear back from?
<micahg> chrisccoulson: didrocks or sil2100
<didrocks> micahg: sil2100 told me that he saw that with you
<micahg> didrocks: ah, yeah, he fixed it already :)
 * micahg will get that uploaded
<micahg> should go out today then
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<mpt> seb128, yep. That would get it from four down to three. I just discussed it briefly with ev, and he has vague ideas to get from three down to one. :-)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, still not done.  :(
<chrisccoulson> mterry, oh :(
<chrisccoulson> that is taking much longer than i thought it would ;)
<mterry> dconf reads also trigger the read...
<mterry> the watch I mean
<chrisccoulson> it's all desrt's fault!
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * didrocks waves good evening
 * desrt wonders what's going on
<seb128> desrt, don't pretend it's not your fault! ;-)
<bcurtiswx> hey kenvandine , i have a friend who changed their default group to be 'users' and now empathy has write permission errors for items that allow for logging and saving connections
<bcurtiswx> bug #1013921
 * kenvandine wonders where the url is from the bot
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ubot2 must be upset with us
<bcurtiswx> ok, so it isn't my machine.. thought it was
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, oh... i can't find a bug with that number
<bcurtiswx> bug #1013291
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1013291 in empathy "changing users default group causes file write permissions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013291
<bcurtiswx> i see what I did there
<bcurtiswx> file write permission errors**
<kenvandine> oh
<bcurtiswx> anyways, the user changed their default group in /etc/group to 'users' and it seems to have caused empathy issues in saving items
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, that is apparmor related
<kenvandine> i don't think it is the group
<kenvandine> it is the homedir
<kenvandine> look at /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/home
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, you can edit /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/home.d/ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, so that should be @{HOMEDIRS}=/heise1/ ?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> @{HOMEDIRS}=/home/ /heise1/
<kenvandine> i guess
<kenvandine> it is a space separated list
<bcurtiswx> in home.d/ubuntu or just home ?
<kenvandine> you put overrides in /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/home.d/ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> ok
<kenvandine> the packaged defaults are in the other
<kenvandine> this is probably breaking more than telepathy
<bcurtiswx> so should we worry about this not changing if a user changes their home directory and doesn't know to change anything else?
<kenvandine> not sure what we can do to help them :/
<bcurtiswx> hmm
<bcurtiswx> that just seems bad though...
<bcurtiswx> brb
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, pretty much everything that ships an apparmor profile relies on @{HOME}
<kenvandine> users shouldn't really change their homedir without knowing the implications... but there isn't really a good way to warn them
<bcurtiswx> they used the command 'usermod'
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, you'd think if thats the case then using usermod would know to change that value as well
<kenvandine> or warn them that it probably isn't a good idea :/
<bcurtiswx> either way there needs to be something done so basic desktop functionality isn't lost with a change of the homedir. IDK how often this happens or not though...
<seb128> bcurtiswx, change user directory doesn't seem a real usecase but rather a "what can I do to break my system" thing
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the users who know how to do that should know better
<bcurtiswx> seb128, can't disagree, just wanted to make sure it wasn't something we should fix that we are not.
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, thanks :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, np
<thumper> robert_ancell: morning
<thumper> robert_ancell: how can I test out your new pango fix?
<robert_ancell> thumper, hello
<robert_ancell> thumper, install quantal?
<thumper> robert_ancell: I'd like to run valgrind again and see if it is good
<thumper> robert_ancell: so... about precise...
<robert_ancell> thumper, it's not too hard to do a precise package
<thumper> robert_ancell: I think it would me nice to SRU, as it effects every app that uses pango to draw text
<thumper> robert_ancell: which is a lot (I think)
<robert_ancell> thumper, can you write out the SRU for it?
<robert_ancell> I can see the bug, but I don't know how severe it is
<thumper> hmm.. I wonder if I can convince a minion to do it :)
<robert_ancell> thumper, ok, I did all the SRU stuff in bug 837145, you just need to write the test case for it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 837145 in pango1.0 "Memory leak in pango_layout_get_extents" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/837145
<thumper> robert_ancell: ok, thanks... I'll try to get to this this afternoon
<robert_ancell> RAOF, do you do SRUs?
<thumper> robert_ancell: do you know what type of details are needed for a test-case?
<thumper> so far we just use valgrind
<robert_ancell> thumper, yeah, I was just going to check with someone like RAOF how detailed they need to be.
<thumper> robert_ancell: ok, cool
<robert_ancell> They normally need to be pretty clear, i.e. "run these commands"
<thumper> :)
<robert_ancell> the program needs a bit of specialised valgrind knowledge to know how to test.  And at least for me it shows so many errors it's not clear which one is being fixed!
<thumper> robert_ancell: I'd like to run valgrind locally (precise) with the fixed version
<RAOF> We'd really like the test case to be detailed enough that an educated non-expert could run and verify it.
<RAOF> Well, what we *really* want is some assurance that it'll *actually* get verified. A test case that anyone can run is one way of helping to ensure that.
<robert_ancell> thumper, ^
<thumper> ok
<thumper> if I can work out how to run the test locally, that'd be as start :)
<thumper> robert_ancell: what is the easiest way for me to get a precise version that is fixed?
<thumper> robert_ancell: compile it myself? or can we get something in a ppa?
<robert_ancell> thumper, bzr-buildpackage from lp:~robert-ancell/pango/precise-lp-837145
<robert_ancell> will do it, then dpkg -i
<thumper> ok, thanks, I'll try this shortly
<robert_ancell> I've uploaded it to precise-proposed, but that's no use until the test case is there and it is approved right RAOF?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: You can get the source out of the unapproved queue, but you're right; it won't build until it's accepted, and it won't be accepted until it's got a test case.
<robert_ancell> a vicious circle!
 * micahg would think it's more like a rainbow leading to a pot of build time :)
 * thumper builds in an attempt to determine a good test case
<thumper> robert_ancell: ok, so I'm building your pango package now
<thumper> robert_ancell: I trust that dpkg -i will install the package
<thumper> robert_ancell: how can I switch between them?
<thumper> robert_ancell: just dpkg -i the existing deb?
<thumper> you can tell I'm not really an ubuntu dev
<robert_ancell> yeah, you need to get the old debs to do that
<robert_ancell> I just download them from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0, but I think you can do it cleverly through apt
<robert_ancell> or they may be in /var/cache/apt/archives/ still
 * thumper needs build-dep for pango1.0
<thumper> grabbing
<thumper> robert_ancell: I see a libpango1.0 in /var/cache/apt/archives
<thumper> that's probably it...
<thumper> robert_ancell: the builddeb failed on the signing at the end ('cause I don't have your key), but I'm guessing that is the last step?
<thumper> robert_ancell: there is a buildir that has debs in it
<thumper> robert_ancell: I'm assuming they are ok?
<thumper> robert_ancell: also, there is a gir1.2-pango-1.0_1.30.0-0ubuntu3.1_amd64.deb package, do I need that for your memleak fix?
<TheMuso> thumper: if using bzr-builddeb to build a package, add -- -uc -us at the end of the command line arguments so that no attempt is made to sign the package.
<thumper> TheMuso: thanks for that
<TheMuso> I use that a lot when testing packages, and only sign, or build/sign when I'm satisfied with the results.
<TheMuso> Useful when working on sponsoring other people's work too.
<TheMuso> And np.
<thumper> the -dbg package, is that just the symbols?
<RAOF> Yup.
<RAOF> You might want them, for valgrind's benefit. Or not.
<thumper> yeah, was going to :)
 * RAOF resists the urge to complain about Debian's backward-arse debugging infrastructure.
<RAOF> But does so unsuccessfully!
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-15
<thumper> haha
<thumper> what is a .udeb?
<RAOF> You can ignore that; that's for the installer.
<TheMuso> TO be clear, its for the Debian installer system. Whilst Ubiquity uses parts of Debian Installer, it doesn't use udebs.
<TheMuso> ^^ for thumper's benefit.
<thumper> thanks
<robert_ancell> thumper, so, you're totally keen to be an ubuntu developer now right?  Loving our shaky architecture?
<thumper> haha, oh he left
<thumper> where is package config normally kept?
<RAOF> thumper: What do you mean by âpackage configâ in this context?
<thumper> nm...
<thumper> trying to use pkg-config
<thumper> and attempting to workout the names of packages
<RAOF> pkg-config --list-all | grep pango âº
<thumper> robert_ancell: bad news... it doesn't actually fix the bigger memory leak
<robert_ancell> thumper, got a good test case for it?
<thumper> hmm...
<thumper> looking at the output for the valgrind log of the test case attached to the bugzilla bug
<thumper> just comparing valgrind output for the pre and post fix
<robert_ancell> thumper, you mean the 500 errors valgrind gives?
<thumper> :)
<thumper> yeah
<thumper> a lot of the possibly lost is just g_type_init
<thumper> and I can look past those
<thumper> robert_ancell: ok, compared, and it did fix quite a big leak
<thumper> but not all the leaks :)
<robert_ancell> so, write some test cases and they'll get fixed!
<thumper> :)
<thumper> I'm getting there
<thumper> robert_ancell: in the pango-leak.c file connected to the bugzilla bug
<thumper> robert_ancell: when I run it under valgrind with: G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly valgrind --tool=memcheck --num-callers=50 --leak-check=full --track-origins=yes --log-file=valgrind.log ./pango_leak
<thumper> I get two definite loss records
<robert_ancell> yeah, I got that too, but only on varied with the number of loops, the other one seemed to be constant
<thumper> robert_ancell: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1041714/
<thumper> robert_ancell: yeah, probably a single parse call thingy
<robert_ancell> thumper, file a new bug :)
<thumper> :)
<thumper> How do I find the source for /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpixman-1.so.0.24.4 ?
<thumper> 'cause it has a bug :(
<RAOF> thumper: apt-cache showsrc $(dpkg -S libpixman-1.so | cut -d':' -f1)  will do it :)
<RAOF> But that's showing off; dpkg -S will find you the package(s) that contains libpixman-1.so, apt-cache showsrc will show you the source package for that.
<RAOF> Or you could just âapt-get source libpixman-1-0â
<RAOF> ;)
<thumper> RAOF: ta
<micahg> thumper: if you don't have it installed, apt-file is a nice tool to have installed
<micahg> s/it/the package with the file in question/
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis
<didrocks> good morning
<micahg> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey micahg
<rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks, hi micahg
<micahg> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> micahg, are you not in USA? you must be up late
<micahg> rickspencer3: yeah, bad habits and such, hopefully will start having earlier nights soon :)
<rickspencer3> haha
<ajmitch> micahg: where early for you means 2AM?
<micahg> heh, yeah :)
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3, comment Ã§a va?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, Ã§a va bien ... je n'ai pas beacuoup des reunions a'jourdi, donc, je suis content and productif ;)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, et tois?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: Ã§a va bien, je peux prendre le temps de faire les choses biens, rien de trop pressÃ©, donc Ã§a change :)
<rickspencer3> trÃ¨s bien :)
<micahg> didrocks: should I propose merges for my changes on top of the ones that sil2000 gave me (just changelog or packaging stuff)
<didrocks> micahg: packaging stuff?
<micahg> didrocks: natty I reverted to source format 1.0, oneiric I converted it into a patch (as I would've had to revert a patch to convert)
<didrocks> micahg: no need to convert it as a patch, we are using bzr merge-upstream workflow
<didrocks> that just gives extra headaches as a patch, that's why we never do that when the packaging branch is derived from the parent one
<micahg> didrocks: I did it that so as to make a minimum chnge
<BigWhale> Good Morning
<didrocks> micahg: well, we wanted to use that opportunity to remove the wrong quilt usage in the previous upload
<micahg> didrocks: if you SRU to oneiric, feel free to revert, I took the path of least resistance in each
<didrocks> micahg: the diff was small, so it was a good opportunity
<didrocks> so no need for us to take the branch :)
<micahg> didrocks: well, I didn't want to do that in a -security upload, so I guess you just need my changelog
<micahg> if you SRU to oneiric, you can fight it out with the SRU team
<didrocks> well, when it's moving 2 files from debian/patches/ to inline patch, the diff was smallâ¦
<didrocks> I guess everyone around here is smart enough to understand it :)
<didrocks> so now it will be more difficult because you changed the second patch to a quilt patch
<didrocks> but well, we'll get over it :)
<micahg> didrocks: nah, just say that change never made it into your VCS :)
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, wie geht's?
<pitti> didrocks: sehr gut, danke!
<pitti> didrocks: how about you?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, thanks :)
<didrocks> taking time to play with python3 and python-mock :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, nice; p-mock was introduced to apport quite recently, and it's quite neat
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I love being able to test assert_called_once_with(args)
<pitti> ah, nice; I use something like self.assertEqual(self.app.ui_start_upload_progress.call_count, 1)
<pitti> your's looks easier to read, thanks for pointin gout
<didrocks> pitti: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/, look for "assert_called_once_with"
<didrocks> (also, using decorator "@patch", loving it!)
<pitti> yeah, indeed
<pitti> before I used it, I had some gems like
<pitti> try:
<pitti>     MyClass.my_method = my_foo_method
<pitti> ...
<pitti> finally:
<pitti>    MyClass.my_method = orig_method
<pitti> @patch is so much easier
<didrocks> oh yeah, way better than doing and hoping you will revert successfully to the previous state :)
<pitti> finally: will care for this, but it's still a bit bulky
<didrocks> yeah :)
<didrocks> now, I would just hope that nosetests3 get coverage support (python-coverage is only for python2)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<chrisccoulson> who sent a pandaboard to my house?
<chrisccoulson> one just arrived ;)
<seb128> hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, jasoncwarner ordered one for everyone in the team
<seb128> chrisccoulson, cf weekly summary email from last week
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, thanks. that's good then. it means i have a new toy to play with :)
<RAOF> Because we care about arm, and it's a pain in the arse not having any hardware.
<seb128> ;-)
<RAOF> Good morning chrisccoulson & seb128!
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> I'm pretty good.
<seb128> hey RAOF, chrisccoulson: happy friday! how are you guys on the rainy day?
<RAOF> It's the weekend now!
<seb128> lucky you ;-)
<RAOF> Also, I think I've pretty much got enough to unblock Robert on the lightdm work for the system compositor, which means I'll be able to go back to actually coding. Huzzah!
<seb128> RAOF, nice! are we going to see anything landing in distro to play with soon?
<RAOF> Although there's probably the need to fix upstream mesa's build system (again!).
<RAOF> seb128: Landing in the distro is blocked on a couple of transitions; mesa 8.1 and xserver 1.12, specifically.
<seb128> RAOF, ok, not next week I guess then ... I mostly asking because I'm about to write the weekly team summary for -release
<RAOF> xserver 1.12 is about ready and should go in soon; mesa 8.1 will require me (or, god willing, someone else) to wade through upstream's half-autotools, half-hand-rolled-makefiles and get the damn thing to build.
<seb128> RAOF, which includes "changes coming in the next week that might impact other teams or users"
<seb128> RAOF, looks like the mesa and xserver transitions might be for next week then?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you get anywhere with g-s-d btw?
<RAOF> xserver is likely for next week, yeah.
<RAOF> Mesa, maybe not.
<RAOF> ppa:raof/system-compositor-scratchpad + ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-staging (until 1.12 lands) should get Robert a functioning system to do lightdm integration work on, though.
<seb128> RAOF, thanks
<didrocks> salut seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, it's *sunny* here
<didrocks> and the whole week-end will be *sunny*
<seb128> didrocks, we will get some of that on sunday apparently
<didrocks> seb128: you should think bigger and request sun from the friday, not only on sunday!
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I'm learning, will do better next week! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i didn't hear anything back from mterry actually. i think the session in gdb yesterday was taking a long time
<didrocks> seb128: I hope so, you will get an evaluation soon :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, would have been faster to install a 32bits vm for you :p
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if i'll be able to reproduce it if i run a i386 ISO on bare metal
<chrisccoulson> i couldn't reproduce it in a vm yesterday :(
<seb128> wth is robert_ancell doing?
<seb128> he did upload stuff depending on gtk 3.5 without gtk
<didrocks> I made the same comment this morning when seeing it :)
<seb128> didrocks, was robert_ancell still around? did you ask him?
<didrocks> seb128: no, he wasn't online when I looked at the user list
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I dropped him an email
<seb128> let's see
<seb128> didrocks, btw look at your queries, I've asked you a question there ;-)
 * didrocks didn't receive any query from seb128
<didrocks> so you can wait for an anwser :)
<didrocks> answer*
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, it was a good idea to ask because my client was behaving like I was connected where I was not
<didrocks> seb128: indeed :)
<seb128> pitti, guten tag
<Laney> ah, /me just saw that as well :P
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> pitti, hello
<seb128> didrocks, ok, for info robert_ancell meant to upload gtk 3.5 but we agreed to not risk that on a friday and let stuff depwait until monday
<didrocks> seb128: hum, we should have wait for uploading everything once ready then, if we have something else to upload on the depwait, but well, not that important :)
<seb128> didrocks, well, everything was ready, he missed the dput
<didrocks> ok :)
<seb128> didrocks, he though he had uploaded it
<didrocks> ah ok, so the "we agreed to not risk" is the post-reason
<didrocks> not what was meant on purpose :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> didrocks, it's "I just discussed with him, he could dput and let us deal with any potential issue"
<seb128> didrocks, but I think I will prefer the "let's deal with it on monday"
<didrocks> seb128: agreed :)
<pitti> is anyone on updating glib to 2.33.2 in debian experimental?
<seb128> pitti, I was going to ask you if you wanted to do it at some point, I just didn't want to ask too many things at the same time since I already pinged about the udisks,gvfs,loop thing ;-)
<pitti> yeah, I don't have time for it today
<pitti> I run stuff in jhbuild for the things I need it for, so I'm not immeidately blocked
<pitti> I was mostly curious
<Laney> I could try to look at that on Monday
<chrisccoulson> wow, it has just got incredibly dark outside
<chrisccoulson> got my fingers crossed for a thunderstorm
<seb128> lol
<seb128> you really like those ;-)
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: you guys have thinkpads right? did you get issues with the pad not working or had to do anything special to get it working?
<seb128> I'm looking at bug #804109
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 804109 in gnome-settings-daemon "can't enable touchpad in Ubuntu (thinkpads)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804109
<didrocks> seb128: nothing special to do, works out of the box
<didrocks> no, no such thing here
<seb128> ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: the trackpad? no, that has always worked without a hitch for me
<mterry> chrisccoulson, so, the gnome-settings-daemon gdb session is still going.  (it was sleeping overnight, so it only had the workday to run)  It's possible that we're not hitting the bug with this setup?  Like, maybe some race condition isn't being met?  (seems unlikely, I don't know why a plt matter would be racy...)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, the last stack trace I see is still from loading plugins.  I'll let you know if I get one that's past that point.
<chrisccoulson> mterry, if it's still going, then maybe it isn't going to hit it :(
<mterry> chrisccoulson, well, the crash was from an idle callback in a plugin, so it would have had to finish loading plugins to hit it
<mterry> chrisccoulson, ooh, let me turn off the watch until then.  I was thinking we'd hit it during plugin load, but it's an idle callback!
<seb128> mterry, if you want to reduce "noise", try to turn off all the plugins but mouse (set their "enable" in dconf to false)
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks, I asked for details on the bug, let's see what config those users have
<mterry> seb128, yeah no, just skipping all plugins does it.  i forgot the crash happened in an idle callback, and thus after plugins.  now let's see what the next major blocker is
<mterry> seb128, oh oh btw, is GUADEC awesome?  Or more particularly, terribly useful?  I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense for me to go
<seb128> mterry, depends what you are looking for, it's less of an hack conference than Boston summit, it's rather a "let's meet people once a year"
<seb128> mterry, I would say it's a sort of a distro rally for GNOME, in a conference format (I wouldn't say UDS like before the sessions format is rather plenary like than work oriented)
<seb128> before->because
<seb128> mterry, but it's good to meet everybody, get face to face discussion, and do some hacking on the side
<mterry> hmm
<mterry> It happens at an inconvenient time for me, so I am a bit torn
<mterry> didrocks, you also go to GUADECs a lot, right?
<didrocks> mterry: yeah, I try to, why? :)
<didrocks> oh backlogging ;)
<didrocks> mterry: yeah, seb128 gave a good description
<didrocks> mterry: don't expect to be able to ack a lot or get technical discussions, it's more someone gives a talk on something
<mterry> So good to keep up with what people are doing in GNOME
<didrocks> mterry: exactly
<larsu> hey didrocks, I'm trying to build unity-panel-service from trunk. cmake doesn't run through because libnux-2.0-dev is missing, which I can't install because I have "held broken packages"
<larsu> libboost1.46-dev to be precise
<didrocks> larsu: on what are you on? precise, quantal?
<larsu> quantal
<didrocks> larsu: if you apt-get install libboost1.46-dev, what does it tell to you?
<larsu> didrocks, it wants to remove 70mb of packages
<didrocks> interesting, I'm sure you want to do that :)
<didrocks> can you pastebin that?
<larsu> yup
<larsu> it seems to be boost mostly
<larsu> *shudder*
<larsu> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1042620/
<didrocks> ah you do have installed libboost 1.49
<didrocks> so yeah, it's one boost stack or the other :)
<didrocks> unity with boost 1.49 is still no uploaded because of the now famous C++ libsig++ issue
<larsu> I don't care which one, don't even know why I have the 1.49 installed
<didrocks> larsu: so just accept the change, it seems you won't loose anything :)
<larsu> unity-panel-service should really be buildable without configuring all of unity
<didrocks> larsu: right, the source is really not modular
<larsu> didrocks, yup, doing that now. Thanks!
<didrocks> larsu: yw :)
<larsu> worked! thanks again didrocks
<didrocks> larsu: no worry!
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end!
<mterry> chrisccoulson, while I wasn't looking, the gdb run finished and crashed!
<chrisccoulson> mterry, oh, that's fantastic :)
<mterry> chrisccoulson, the previous two backtraces: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1042651/
<chrisccoulson> mterry, interesting. i wonder if the reason i couldn't trigger it here is because my VM doesn't have a touchpad
<chrisccoulson> let me try writing a USB stick and booting on my actual hardware :)
<chrisccoulson> if i can find USB stick
<mterry> interesting, good point
<chrisccoulson> ok, bbiab
<chrisccoulson> mterry, ok, bingo!
<chrisccoulson> you can work around it btw, by turning off "disable touchpad whilst typing"
 * mterry has come to love his unthemed GTK+
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> mterry, ok, i've updated the bug now
<mterry> chrisccoulson, awesome, thanks dude
<chrisccoulson> mterry, i might continue looking at this on monday. not sure if i want to bury my head in assembler on a friday evening ;)
<mterry> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-06-17
<AlanBell> would anyone like to review bug 930783
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 930783 in compiz-plugins-main "mouse poll is jerky at the default setting of 40ms" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930783
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-10
<GunnarHj> jbicha: ping?
<jbicha> GunnarHj: hi
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Hi Jeremy!
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Saw that you removed the gcc patch 52 (languages) from the blueprint. Was it a mistake, or how are you thinking?
<jbicha> GunnarHj: uh I think the patch is unappliable with 3.8
<jbicha> oh, never mind, darkxst refreshed it
<GunnarHj> jbicha: It is as is. Some thinks have been moved to gnome-shell etc., but someone made those mods to make it work with Ubuntu GNOME 13.04.
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Right, it was darkxst who did that refresh.
<jbicha> have you tried our 3.8 packaging from https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3-staging/+packages?field.series_filter=raring ?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Not yet. Have been on a hospital, etc., but as soon as my health issues are under control, I'll make myself involved.
<jbicha> ah ok, I'm thinking we could go with the GNOME language panel this cycle if someone could get the time to write an indicator-keyboard
<jbicha> Ubuntu Phone is keeping people busy this year though
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Shouldn't the language installation/removal thing be resolved also? Laney has that on his todo list, I think.
<darkxst> GunnarHj, I have mostly done that
<GunnarHj> jbicha: You have?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Can it be seen somewhere?
<darkxst> gnome3-staging
<GunnarHj> darkxst: Is it a gcc patch, or something separate?
<darkxst> gcc patch
<darkxst> and gnome-desktop patch
<GunnarHj> darkxst: Thanks, I'll take a look soon.
<jbicha> it doesn't do language removal though
<GunnarHj> Hmm... People want that. Would it be hard to add the reverse of installation?
<darkxst> currently installation uses the PK dbus helper, but there is no such helper for removal
<darkxst> so removal is a little more tricky, but still possible
<GunnarHj> I guess that existing code in language-selector can be useful. Even if we drop the language-selector UI, parts of that package could serve in the background.
<GunnarHj> But it's soon 3 a.m. here, and I'm going to get some sleep. See you guys!
<pitti> thanks desrt (#701800)
<didrocks> hey pitti, how was your week-end?
<pitti> hey didrocks; quite fine indeed, thanks! did lots of gardening, some more maths videos, and enjoyed the sun
<pitti> one of these rare weekends being at home :)
<pitti> didrocks: and your's?
<didrocks> pitti: was too short, but really good! Mostly walking within the city and a lot of cylcing when it was not running (meaning, before the evening as it started to rain both on Saturday and Sunday)
<mitya57> Hi pitti!
<mitya57> FYI, pkg-create-dbgsym does something weird with xenomai package â see build logs at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xenomai/2.6.2.1-2ubuntu1
<mitya57> (I've disabled stripping some files in -2ubuntu2 as a workaround)
<desrt> pitti: comments welcome
<darkxst> pitti, have seen these? GVFS-WARNING **: meta_journal_iterate: found short sized entry, possible journal corruption
<pitti> darkxst: yes, and it's unnerving
<pitti> darkxst: colin walters fixed it a few days ago in git
<pitti> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2013-May/msg05639.html
<darkxst> if hiding, is fixing! :)
<pitti> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=eb62d9
<pitti> right, it's fixed in 1.17.1
<pitti> mitya57: hello
<pitti> mitya57: would you mind filing a bug about it as a reminder?
<mitya57> pitti: done, bug 1189342
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1189342 in pkg-create-dbgsym (Ubuntu) "xenomai 2.6.2.1-2ubuntu1 FTBFS with pkg-create-dbgsym" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1189342
<mitya57> (By the way that was a first upload I sponsored :D)
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, bon week-end?
<jibel> salut didrocks , Ã§a a Ã©tÃ© et toi?
<didrocks> jibel: trop court, mais bien! :)
<Sweetshark> Moin!
 * Sweetshark kepts his fingers crossed: LibreOffice 4.1.0~beta2 building in a ppa ...
<didrocks> Sweetshark: I tried that for unity tests passing, with various rates of failures :p
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Sweetshark didrocks
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
 * Sweetshark gives didrocks a hug about test failures and waves good morning at seb128 ...
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<seb128> hey didrocks  pitti Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> pitti: heya
<seb128> didrocks, congrats on getting the new unity in ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for NEWing and reviewing all those stuffs! :)
<seb128> yw ;-)
<didrocks> and now, even the MIRs are cleaned, happy about this!
 * didrocks hugs Sweetshark back and cross fingers for him :)
 * pitti still eagerly awaits NEW processing of umockdev :)
<pitti> (but it's not that urgent)
<seb128> pitti, I can have a look (or did you upload to Debian?)
<pitti> no, to Ubuntu for now
 * pitti cannot upload to Debian ATM
<seb128> they still didn't follow on the key change RT?
<pitti> seb128: but really, it's not that urgent, I was just teasing
<pitti> not sure how regular AA is being done these days, still with archive days?
<pitti> seb128: no, not yet
<seb128> I can still have a look once I'm done with w.e catching up there ;-)
<pitti> thanks; should be easy, same license for all files, Canonical copyright, etc.
<mlankhorst> pitti: are capital letters not allowed in test names?
<Laney> ahoy there
<pitti> mlankhorst: ah, apparently not
<pitti> Test names are separated by whitespace and should contain only
<pitti>     characters which are legal in package names, plus `/'.
<pitti> mlankhorst: we never ran into this before
<pitti> hey Laney, how are yoU/
<pitti> erk
<pitti> "you?"
<mlankhorst> I think the / was giving issues when I tried it
<mlankhorst> $ lintian ../xorg-integration-tests_0.0.1.20130523-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<veebers> didrocks: ping
<mlankhorst> W: xorg-integration-tests source: illegal-runtime-test-name lib.libX11
<Laney> pitti: very well, thank you!
<Laney> the pub had a mini music festival on saturday which was fun
<didrocks> veebers: pong
 * mlankhorst is tempted to ignore the warning
<Laney> at least report a lintian bug on it
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> like a monday?
<Laney> happy and raring to go then
<seb128> had a nice w.e, trying to kick back in "work mode" ;-)
<pitti> yeah, nothing like starting the week with an hour of catching up with bug mail :)
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> pitti, btw I noticed that "doesn't respect lid setting" issue, and it's new since saucy for me
<seb128> it was working in raring
 * seb128 uses a docked laptop and closing the lid in raring was not suspending it
<pitti> seb128: ah, that's something else then; that shouldn't happen regardless of the g-c-c setting
<seb128> pitti, it should, the g-c-c setting as a a/c preference, that's what should be used when docked
<pitti> seb128: it wasn't like that in raring, though
<seb128> it was
<pitti> even if you set both to "suspend" (as I usually do), it didn't suspend when it was docked
<pitti> at least for me
<pitti> and I think that's right
<pitti> phone, brb
<seb128> hum
<seb128> that seemed buggy in the other way then ;-)
<seb128> if there is an UI the choice should be respected
<pitti> re
<pitti> seb128: well, if the laptop is docked and there's an external screen, I don't expect it to suspend, ever
<pitti> there was some code to figure that out
<seb128> pitti, some user do, they use both the laptop screen and the external one and close the laptop lid on the evening when they cal l it a day (we received bug reports asking for that in the past)
<pitti> it's just that our old g-s-d doesn't yet know about the current logind semantics of handling lid and power buttons by itself
<pitti> seb128: hm, I got some bug reports in the past complaining about the suspend
<seb128> yeah, that's why we have an option :p
<pitti> <rock> g-s-d <hard place>
<pitti> seb128: we don't have an option for dock behaviour, at least I can't see it?
<seb128> well, g-c-c has a "what do to on lid close when on a/c" and docked is an a/c state
<pitti> anyway, we should definitively fix the behaviour of these two (i. e. not suspend when not configured so in g-c-c)
<pitti> that's why I asked about g-s-d 3.8 the other day, but seems we need to backport that behaviour only
<seb128> right
<darkxst> seb128, pretty sure 3.8 does support that
<darkxst> but may well be done via inhibitors from g-s
<seb128> by then federico tried to do the smart behaviour pitti described
<seb128> e.g https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=6e17bc786f55f283f2c721249197e7740174fd43
<seb128> but that probably changed in 3.8
<seb128> pitti, btw, that's what I remembered: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=f10c8922ef4ead58ac0389144c2d0b16e872067e
<pitti> mlankhorst: FYI, debian bug 711844
<ubot2`> Debian bug 711844 in autopkgtest "autopkgtest: Allow uppercase letters in test names" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/711844
<seb128> pitti, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=9c2a401f9c92307bdb5ff2baeb82b8ecbf8eadf7 is the sort of issues we will need to watch for if we update to 3.8
<seb128> "gnome-shell is now using a delay inhibitor to ensure locking happens before suspend."
<seb128> not sure what happens if you don't run g-s
<mlankhorst> pitti: I just opened that ;-)
<Laney> he's showing you that it got reassigned
<mlankhorst> oh that
<Laney> i.e. that autopkgtest says your test name isn't allowed
<mlankhorst> yeah I wasn't sure whether the bug was in lintian, the debian spec, or autopkgtest
<darkxst> seb128, pitti add inhibitors to gnome-screensaver
<seb128> is that a question?
<seb128> or order? ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, its already been done
<darkxst> *added
<seb128> oh, ok
<darkxst> the only outstanding issue with g-s-d that I know of is the ibus stuff
<darkxst> (3.8 that is)
<seb128> can we update g-s-d without g-c-c ?
<seb128> (I guess not)
<pitti> yeah, we need to teach our 3.6 g-s-d power plugin about logind inhibitors
<seb128> pitti, umockdev, would it make sense to b-d on valac rather than -0.18 | -0.16?
<pitti> seb128: like, valac (>= 0.16.1)? can do, yes
<pitti> I haven't tested with 0.20 yet, but I can make sure that upstream works with that
<seb128> pitti, jbicha has been doing changes like that for some days to prepare the 0.20 transition
<pitti> $ valac --version
<pitti> Vala 0.18.1
<pitti> ah, installing -0.20 doesn't change the default yet
<Laney> yeah, that's part of the transition
<pitti> ok, uninstalled 0.18, works now
<seb128> pitti, umockdev NEWed
<pitti> seb128: merci!
<seb128> pitti, you can sudo update-alternatives --config valac to change the default as well
<seb128> pitti, de rien
<Laney> we should take this chance to use the same alternatives priorities as Debian do
<Laney> that delta always annoyed me
<seb128> those numbers are a bit random
<Laney> yeah, it's only the ordering that matters
<seb128> it's not really a delta
<seb128> it's a matter of "we updated first and picked a number and they picked a different one"
<Laney> in the sense that theirs is different to ours
<seb128> right, I was just saying "feel free to drop the delta there" ;-)
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'll tell jbicha about it if/when he comes on later
<seb128> pitti, libumockdev-dev should depends on glib-dev since it's .pc requires it
<seb128> pitti, (doing binNEW review)
<pitti> seb128: added that, thanks for spotting
<seb128> yw
<pitti> seb128: upstream needs some tweaking for vala 0.20, working on that
<pitti> (posix_extra needs to drop some definitions, my patches went upstream in 0.20)
<seb128> k
<seb128> binNEW done
<pitti> cheers!
<seb128> didrocks, Laney: ubuntu-system-settings NEWed as well btw (I pre-review for Ken friday and he got the autolanding in place)
<Laney> cool
<Laney> I did some packaging for my work in progress on the appearance panel
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, saw that, Thanks!
<Laney> but we should decide on package/project names and stuff
<seb128> Laney, we should also decide on what panels should be in the ubuntu-system-settings source
<seb128> not sure it makes sense to split most of those
<Laney> oh, I just kind of assumed it would be separate
<Laney> didn't really consider it
<seb128> it's like gnome-control-center, we have a few external panels where it makes sense
<seb128> like ubuntuone might want to have their own tree with other part of their code
<Laney> doesn't matter from a system point of view as all of the integration points can as well be used externally
<seb128> or online accounts
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: fixed for vala 0.20 in https://github.com/martinpitt/umockdev/commit/681e6a04
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: I'll do a 0.2.5 release, adjust the build dep, and upload
<pitti> then both issues will be fixed
<pitti> thanks for reviewing!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> thanks for the quick fixes ;-)
<pitti> that'll also fix the autopkgtest
<jibel> I get a crash in gnome-control-center with easy steps to reproduce, bug 1188826, could anyone confirm?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1188826 in gnome-control-center-unity (Ubuntu) "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188826
<pitti> seb128: no time like the present
<seb128> jibel, no segfault here
<didrocks> seb128: I get it as well
<didrocks> jibel: ^
<seb128> didrocks, great, you won the right the debug/fix it ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: not really :p
<didrocks> seb128: weird you can't reproduce it
<seb128> is that only happening with appaerance?
<darkxst> seb128, g-c-c 3.6 could work with g-s-d 3.8 but would require cherrypicking a few patches
<didrocks> yeah, only appearance from the quick test I've done
<seb128> darkxst, I wonder if we should do that to start, I need to look again at the number of UI changes to the new g-c-c
<seb128> didrocks, (gnome-control-center:20295): gnome-control-center-unity-WARNING **: Could not fill pictures source: L'opÃ©ration a Ã©tÃ© annulÃ©e
<seb128> didrocks, I get that but no segfault
<darkxst> might be easier to just finish g-c-c, there is nothing major blocking it
<didrocks> (gnome-control-center:4305): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_file_new_for_path: assertion 'path != NULL' failed
<seb128> darkxst, out of crap UI decisions
<didrocks> (gnome-control-center:4305): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_file_load_contents: assertion 'G_IS_FILE (file)' failed
<seb128> didrocks, I've those as well but no segfault, anyway I will debug
<jibel> seb128, yes only appearance
<seb128> I've another bug to fix in there
<darkxst> seb128, most of the UI changes are in panels that ubuntu doesnt use
<seb128> darkxst, like power? :p
<darkxst> yes power has changed
<seb128> darkxst, well anyway I need to find some time to look at it, we might just end up have 2 sources one for 3.6 with Ubuntu patches and a 3.8 stock upstream
<darkxst> network, printers, region
<seb128> which would make both Unity and GNOME edition happy
<seb128> I would prefer to avoid have 2 g-s-d version though
<darkxst> you could keep 3.6 panels as external modules?
<seb128> we could, but depending on the number of changes we want/don't want in 3.8 we could as easily fork 3.6
<mlankhorst> pitti: ignoring the autopkgtest warning, does https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ppa/+packages xorg-integration-tests look good to you?
<darkxst> seb128, well let me know once you have had a look at 3.8 then
<seb128> sure
<seb128> thanks for the work on it!
<darkxst> np
<pitti> mlankhorst: oh, it's just a warning, but works anyway?
<pitti> mlankhorst: do you have that in VCS somewhere, or should I download and look at the .dsc?
<pitti> mlankhorst: wrapped lines in debian/tests/control don't work AFAIR (or maybe jibel fixed that)
 * pitti runs run-adt-test -p ppa:mlankhorst/ppa xorg-integration-tests
<jibel> pitti, mlankhorst I fixed that. ipython uses it for example
<mlankhorst> pitti: not in a public git yet
<pitti> Unable to locate package xorg-integration-tests
<pitti> oh, it's not built yet
<pitti> so I can't run the tests
<mlankhorst> oh darn
<mlankhorst> it depends on newer inputproto, it can't run with x1.13, needs the 1.14 canonical-x/x-staging ppa enabled
<pitti> set a PPA dependency?
<mlankhorst> I ran the tests locally with the documentation, so I know that part works at least
<mlankhorst> pitti: it sort of requires it at runtime too, i don't know if a dependency would handle that, i can copy it to the x-staging ppa though
<pitti> mlankhorst: yeah, or do that
<pitti> mlankhorst: so, LGTM except the wrapping (debian bug 695797 )
<ubot2`> Debian bug 695797 in autopkgtest "Depends field in test control file cannot be folded" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/695797
<pitti> mlankhorst: but if you ran it with "sudo adt-run" and it worked, fine :)
<seb128> stupid glib question
<seb128> how do I set a pointer to NULL when the refcount of the object reachs 0?
<seb128> that's harder that it should :/
<pitti> g_clear_object() ?
<pitti> oh, you mean as a kind of callback?
<pitti> not sure whether that's possible
<seb128> doesn't that set it to NULL in all cases?
<seb128> not as a callback, notify-osd does unref objects
<seb128> and then do IS_OBJECT(object)
<seb128> that segfaults with the new glib
<mlankhorst> once you unref, you shouldn't touch it any more..
<seb128> I wall to set it to NULL but only if the ref reachs 0
<seb128> it's refed over 1
<pitti> ah, someone pinged me about that this morning
<seb128> so if ref is 2 and it's unref-ed I don't want to NULL it
<pitti> bug 1182140
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1181324 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1182140 notify-osd crashed with SIGSEGV in bubble_get_id()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181324
<seb128> right
<mlankhorst> seb128: sounds a bit abusive though :/
<pitti> shakaran
<seb128> I understand what happens and why, not sure how to fix it
<pitti> seb128: so I think g_clear_object() is what you might want to use?
<pitti> oh, that doesn't just do _unref() if the ref count  is > 1?
<mlankhorst> either you control the refcount, and you know it will hit 0 or not in advance, or you don't but in that case you're no longer allowed to touch the object..
<seb128> pitti, I think g_clear_object ==
<seb128> g_object_unref + ptr =NULL
<seb128> without consideration for the refcount
 * seb128 checks
<pitti> :/
<mlankhorst> but checking if ref will become 0 seems racy to me :/
<seb128> that code is a bit crazy
 * seb128 doesn't want to spend hours to understand the notify-osd crazy memory management
<seb128> they have a
<seb128> 	if (stack_is_slot_vacant (self, slot))
<seb128> 		self->slots[slot] = BUBBLE (g_object_ref ((gpointer) bubble));
<seb128> so I guess the refcount can be > 1
<mlankhorst> yeah but if you unref that slot is vacant :/
<seb128> bah, I will just update the bug with the details of what is happening and let somebody who knows that code fix it
<mlankhorst> pitti: woops, I also need xserver-xorg-input-wacom as a build-depend, and xorg-gtest is too old in saucy :/
<noecc> I've updated from 11.10 to 13.04 via do-release-upgrade and now cannot login via gdm.  After entering user/pw the screen blanks for a few seconds and returns to the logon prompt.  Permission on /home are root:root 777.  Perms on /home/user are user:user 755
<mlankhorst> have you checked .xsession-errors?
<noecc> .xsession-errors is dated 6/6 with no timestamp in the log.  How would I know which errors are from today?
<mlankhorst> zero it, retry logging in
<noecc> mlankhorst: Nothing written to .xsession-errors, however, Changing the session type at the logon screen from Ubuntu (default) to Gnome was successful.  Also changing it back to Ubuntu (default) is also now successful.
<mlankhorst> no idea then :/
<sil2100> tedg: hello!
<tedg> Good morning sil2100
<sil2100> tedg: during daily-release testing, we noticed a hud issue with the HUD not returning any results for even the obvious queries
<sil2100> tedg: let me show you a video
<tedg> sil2100, Is this coming from an app?  We didn't have support for unity-gtk-module...
<seb128> sil2100, is it working with firefox?
<sil2100> tedg: ah! Ok, that would make sense - but I actually thought that was already in, as I saw a recent commit related to support of u-g-m
<tedg> sil2100, That landed on trunk in r273
<sil2100> tedg, seb128: ok guys, I'll check that, probably that's the reason
<sil2100> Thanks!
<tedg> sil2100, I'm not sure why it didn't get released, is that part of the autopilot stuff?
<sil2100> tedg: I need to see what revisions are being used in the hud stack right now
<seb128> sil2100, it seems like the indicator stack failed in jenkins because it installed packages that shouldn't be there?
<seb128> sil2100, seems like a bug in the stack config...
<sil2100> seb128: yes, I'm fixing that now, it seems we also had some leftovers from appmenu-gtk
<seb128> sil2100, right, it's in the apt-get install command
<tedg> sil2100, The issue there is that we have some branches that need to land in order from jbicha.  So that's why were waiting on the daily releases.
<tedg> sil2100, It's not a big deal right now, but FYI.
<seb128> Laney, tedg, larsu, didrocks: you might want join that team https://launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch membership ... it would be useful to have some people in there so we can have peer reviews, etc
<Laney> seb128: ok, doing
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<didrocks> joined
 * tedg thinks it needs a cooler icon...
<larsu> seb128: will do
<seb128> thanks guys ;-)
<seb128> tedg, larsu: oh, and good morning and happy new week ;-)
<tedg> Good morning seb128.  Tried that Texas wine this weekend, France is probably safe for another year or two...
<seb128> tedg, haha, I'm glad to year ;-)
<seb128> do
<seb128> hear
<seb128> dooh even
<larsu> seb128: thanks, same to you!
<jbicha> seb128: howdy
<jbicha> I think we're ready to sync vala-0.20 from Debian (making it default); GNOME stuff should already work with it without problem
<jbicha> and the things using vala-0.18 I've tested (like Unity pieces) also work with -.20
<seb128> jbicha, hey, can you check with mhr3 and sil2100 if they feel like they are ready? mhr3 mentioned last week that we shouldn't rebuild the lenses with 0.20 because it has issues IIRC
<seb128> <mhr3_>	seb128, no, there are other issues with 0.20
<mhr3> seb128, it was about libunity, lenses might be fine, i didn't check them
<seb128> mhr3, what's the issue for libunity?
<mhr3> seb128, it just fails to build
<seb128> mhr3, well in any case if libunity is having issue that's a good reason to hold on the version change, until we resolve it
<jbicha> ah, yes libunity explicitly depends on valac-0.18 and doesn't built yet with valac-0.20
<jbicha> seb128: see there's about 6 packages autosynced from Debian that won't build on Ubuntu because they need valac to be >= 0.20
<seb128> shrug
<jbicha> we can change the default without it affecting libunity
<seb128> what do they force a version like that?
<seb128> I'm sure those build with 0.18
<seb128> but yeah, if you are tested and are sure it doesn't break unity, feel free to sync it
<jbicha> yes, we could patch all of those packages but it didn't seem worth it
<jbicha> like https://git.gnome.org/browse/gupnp/commit/?id=4870e
<jbicha> seb128: ok, could you promote vala-0.20 to main then?
<seb128> jbicha, ok
<jbicha> speaking of vala bugs, unity-greeter won't build with vala-0.20 yet either, bug 1186058
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1186058 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source with vala 0.20" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186058
<didrocks> better to get that fixed because syncing (no regression ;))
<didrocks> or force the vala version meanwhile
<jbicha> it's already been forced
<didrocks> I know that libunity has bugs with 0.20
<didrocks> mhr3 told it
<didrocks> jbicha: you checked that every packages forced 0.18?
<jbicha> yes, libunity has been pinned to 0.18
<didrocks> (and vala scopes as well?)
<jbicha> didrocks: I checked building but not running and I didn't check everything but I did test-build the non-gnome stuff in main that builds against just valac
<jbicha> the gnome stuff should be fine since F19 has had vala 0.20 as default for months
<jbicha> I think we can definitely drop vala 0.18 this cycle, libunity & totem-plugin-arte are the only 2 explicitly b-d-ing on it that don't work with 0.20
<jbicha> .14 depends on Debian but we might keep .16 around a bit longer
<sil2100> didrocks: ping!
<didrocks> sil2100: pong
<sil2100> didrocks: soo, I remember that when otto was being planned, one of the cool things about it was that we could take a snapshot of a given test run to see what was happening there
<sil2100> didrocks: is that possible right now?
<didrocks> sil2100: it is
<didrocks> of course you need the same graphic card
<didrocks> and architecture
<sil2100> didrocks: since tedg would like to fetch some logs from the rootfs
<didrocks> sil2100: you should have the delta attached in a .otto file referenced by the build
<didrocks> (it's a tar delta file)
<sil2100> didrocks: where can I find that file? (I found the file-name in the logs)
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, so in the http archive published
<didrocks> you have an archive/ directory
<sil2100> Ah!
 * sil2100 noticed the link at the end of the test log
<sil2100> \o/ Thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<didrocks> sil2100: not doc yet, just trying to see how clear this is without any :)
<sil2100> didrocks: btw. when I redeployed a stack but no packages were added, can I re-run it with 'foo' (i.e. without rebuilding) or am I forced to rebuild everything from scratch?
<didrocks> sil2100: depends on what you are trying to do :)
<didrocks> sil2100: if this has nothing to do with trunk content, you can use "foo"
<sil2100> didrocks: it's just the packages: list that changed
<didrocks> sil2100: so fine once redeployed and ran with "foo" :)
<didrocks> this famous famous foo package
<tedg> didrocks, When we have the glib support for calling apport on gcriticals, will autopilot tests upload those to errors?
<didrocks> tedg: I guess it's a question for thomi
<didrocks> I would love to :)
<tedg> Yeah, looking for the stack traces...
<didrocks> tedg: if you need more info, we can add more logs to look at
<tedg> Or atleast we could put the crash files in the artifacts.
<mhr3> tedg, you want to reach bug number 10mil asap? :)
<tedg> mhr3, Did sabdfl say 200M bugs or 200M users?  /me is confused
<mhr3> lol
<attente> seb128, hey
<didrocks> ahah :)
<attente> we're going to 3.8.2 of gnome-desktop3 and sticking with 3.6.4 of g-s-d?
<mhr3> didrocks, jibel, still possible to look at the hang?
<didrocks> mhr3: it's more than possible, it's advised :)
<mhr3> didrocks, so... how? :)
<didrocks> mhr3: what do you need to get access to exactly?
<didrocks> mhr3: more logs, or ssh to the machine?
<mhr3> didrocks, the machine where it's hanging
<mhr3> ssh preferably
<jbicha> attente: I believe it's unsafe to update g-s-d without updating g-c-c and g-c-c still needs a fair amount of work
<didrocks> mhr3: we have tro relaunch the tests, nvidia is fine? (apparently, jibel can have that on saucy too)
<didrocks> mhr3: let's wait for jibel, I think he has better direct access, I can relaunch the tests for failing meanwhile (as it's starting to slow down at test 100)
<attente> jbicha, but the gnome-desktop3 is going to 3.8.2, and i think this is going to cause some problems for older g-s-d
<attente> maybe not big problems, but it at least caused an ibus issue i was struggling with this week
<mhr3> didrocks, k, i guess you already checked top etc and made sure it's not some huge leak again?
<sil2100> didrocks: quick question -> do we need autopilot in main?
<didrocks> cyphermox: sil2100: Mirv: kenvandine: the QA stack status will now be ignored for dependant stack (the result of the stack running, it will still block the other stack in case it's building)
<didrocks> sil2100: not really, as we run that pre-publishing
<didrocks> sil2100: maybe on the long term, would be a nice to have, but I don't think it should right now, why?
<didrocks> mhr3: yeah, we are quite puzzled, we thought it was the nvidia driver
<jbicha> attente: g-s-d and g-c-c is the most difficult part of GNOME to integrate into Ubuntu; if we had to wait for it to be ready first, maybe we'd never update GNOME?
<didrocks> mhr3: as some memory are taken and not released, but jibel really investigated it
<jbicha> attente: I believe 3.6 was the first GNOME with ibus integration so maybe there still would have been an issue since our 3.6 doesn't have that
<sil2100> didrocks: just been thinking about the task in the spreadsheet "The dependency needs to be MIRed and reintroduced as a dep" for python-upa
<sil2100> didrocks: not sure if anything besides autopilot-touch uses that package?
<sil2100> didrocks: so, do we really need that to be MIR'ed?
<didrocks> sil2100: oh sorry, no MIR needed, just NEWed
<sil2100> didrocks: because autopilot is not in main, so it's not causing a problem
<didrocks> had my brain broken :)
<sil2100> Ok ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: you put all the new components as DONE, but is there any cupstream2distro-config branch with them enabled already?
<attente> jbicha, right, i'm running a g-s-d that drops the patch that disables ibus
 * attente working on the indicator-keyboard
<sil2100> Uuuh! Ok, now this is something I forgot, my brain is broken as well!
<didrocks> ahah :)
<sil2100> Let me do that and re-open that task ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: please, before adding them, we need to preNEW I guess
<didrocks> (so that we don't block on NEW)
<Mirv> sil2100: ah, funny, I thanked you about changing maintainer address, but it was me actually locally - thomi's @ubuntu.com address should be used in the maintainer field, otherwise bzr bd complains
<didrocks> Mirv: for those, I have to change my DEBEMAIL, which isn't fun :/
<sil2100> Mirv: fixing! Didn't know bzr bd was actually saying things
<sil2100> When the e-mail is liek that
<didrocks> if you have an @ubuntu.com DEBEMAIL, it will :)
<didrocks> (it's debuild actually)
<Mirv> didrocks: ah so that's a workaround when wanting to build such a thing
<sil2100> Mirv: thanks ;)
<didrocks> Mirv: yep, not sure there is anything else than changing the maintainer otherwise
<sil2100> Mirv: just approve and go rest ;p!
<Mirv> sil2100: I won't approve since I seem to be getting lintian warnings ;) , but I'll put those to merge request and then I go back to evening activities
<jbicha> attente: cool, ibus 1.5 & indicator-keyboard is perhaps the biggest blocker :)
<Mirv> (lintian errors, even)
<jbicha> attente: perhaps you should be targetting g-s-d 3.8?
<attente> jbicha, you said that would probably need an update of g-c-c though, no?
<jbicha> g-c-c's language panel changed quite a bit in 3.8 so I don't know how hard it would be for it to do both
<sil2100> Mirv: it seems I missed the standards warning, not sure what to do with the native warning though
<sil2100> Mirv: should I keep this package as a native package? didrocks ?
<attente> jbicha, yeah.. all things considered, the input methods panel is already done for 3.6.4
<jbicha> attente: yes but I think the other minimum changes for g-c-c 3.8 are doable this cycle
<jibel> seb128, bug 1182307 is another crasher with trivial steps to reproduce
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1182307 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1182307
<didrocks> sil2100: let's use split mode, like every other ones
<didrocks> sil2100: just a question of standardization
<attente> jbicha, ok, so you recommend moving the whole stack to 3.8?
<Mirv> sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/python-upa/packaging_review/+merge/168393/comments/373857
<didrocks> and being able to backport patches easily
<sil2100> Mirv: ohshit, I didn't get those
<jbicha> attente: I think you should look at 3.8; it's in the staging ppa but you'll probably need to run with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME as I haven't unhidden the language panel yet
<sil2100> Mirv: some of them make no sense, hm
<jbicha> the regressions are 1. while we can add languages, language removal hasn't been added yet 2. fallback languages (i.e. primary language Arabic, falling back to French)
<attente> jbicha, sure, i'll take a look. i guess it's just that i'm not really aware of what the plan is for what will go into saucy
<jbicha> I'm thinking those are minor issues
<jbicha> attente: ideally your work would work with either g-s-d; I just don't know how much changed
<attente> jbicha, ok, i'll try it with the 3.8 stack then
<attente> thanks for your help
<Laney> jbicha: btw, if you're planning on updating the default vala (heard a rumour you were), can you unify the alternate priorities between Ubuntu and Debian at the same time to zap a delta?
<jbicha> Laney: I'm working on that (I read the backlog); by the way Debian set the priority for 0.18 fairly low (I guess because it was only experimental and has been dropped)
<Laney> right
<jbicha> I think that's ok because we should be able to drop 0.18 soonish
<Laney> I was imagining we'd follow suit
<jibel> mhr3, didrocks sorry was otp, so I re-ran the tests another time on an intel box, no dbus hang this time, just found a leak in gvfsd-http
<jibel> so it's quite random
<mhr3> "great"
<didrocks> jibel: maybe we can give mhr3 access to the nvidia box?
<didrocks> jibel: we can reproduce the mem explosion quite reliably here?
<jibel> didrocks, sure
<jibel> mhr3 don't you have access to the lab already ?
<mhr3> jibel, if i do, i don't know about it :)
<jbicha> Laney: could you sponsor http://paste.ubuntu.com/5752083/ ?
<Laney> yes, once I learn how to type duration and unbreak this file
<Laney> see, I can do it right in IRC. Got it wrong in code thrice
<Laney> jbicha: what priority do we have on 14/18/20 currently?
<jbicha> 20 is 100; 18 is 90 (Debian has 70); 14 (building now) is 94
<jbicha> 18 might not be worth changing (it's not in the desktop or MOTU sets either)
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping
<sil2100> kenvandine: do you know why dee-qt is part of the friends stack?
<sil2100> kenvandine: I think, since dee is in the unity stack, wouldn't it make more sense for it to be in the unity stack as well?
<sil2100> didrocks: ^
<didrocks> depends on what is going to depend on it
<didrocks> I don't think friends needs to dep on unity
<kenvandine> sil2100, friends was the only consumer at the time
<didrocks> maybe more something like platform? wdyt?
<kenvandine> makes sense
<kenvandine> imo dee should be too
<didrocks> agreed
<didrocks> kenvandine: is dee-qt part of what apps would access directly?
<kenvandine> shouldn't hold up those because we can't land unity :)
<didrocks> if so, it can be even in the sdk
<kenvandine> didrocks, apps and the shell
<didrocks> maybe sdk or platform? I have no strong opinion :)
<kenvandine> no strong opinion
<kenvandine> dee-qt in sdk and dee in platform?
<didrocks> sdk deps on platform?
<didrocks> or it's the other way around?
<kenvandine> it should :)
<didrocks> (we don't want circular deps)
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> i would think sdk should depend on platform
<kenvandine> not the other way
<kenvandine> platform should be lower level than the sdk
<didrocks> I agree
<didrocks> kenvandine: let's do it that way! :)
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> sil2100, ^^
<didrocks> kenvandine: maybe then platform should run one or two unity tests
<didrocks> (integration tests)
<didrocks> to ensure dee isn't broken
<didrocks> (the ones with scope tests)
<kenvandine> perhaps
<kenvandine> same should be true for sdk
<kenvandine> sdk should run tests for some apps that use the sdk...
<didrocks> kenvandine: more than agree, I asked for the sdk team to identify some of the apps tests :)
<didrocks> but just need few, no need to run everything, just if it's obviously broken, we can see that quickly and reject
<kenvandine> indeed
<sil2100> kenvandine: will you make the switch when needed? ;)
<sil2100> kenvandine: you can also re-enable daily_release for dee-qt now, as the packaging got reviewed and prepared
<didrocks> sil2100: it needs to be pre-NEWed
<didrocks> sil2100: so that we don't stuck it in NEW
<sil2100> >_>
<sil2100> <_<
<sil2100> What's a pre-NEW..?
 * sil2100 hides
<kenvandine> didrocks, it isn't a new package
<kenvandine> it's in universe
<kenvandine> or main...
<didrocks> kenvandine: oh ignore me then!
<kenvandine> yeah, universe
<didrocks> sil2100: a NEW pre-review ;)
<kenvandine> :-D
<kenvandine> sil2100, i can make the changes if you like
<didrocks> kenvandine: ah, just a note, once you deploy, it doesn't remove old jenkins jobs in the old stack
<kenvandine> gotta run to lunch now... bbiab
<didrocks> kenvandine: it's not triggered, but just to clean the view
<kenvandine> do we need to ping someone?
<didrocks> kenvandine: you can remove that in the interface
<didrocks> directly
<didrocks> click on the job
<kenvandine> cool
<didrocks> you have "delete" or "remove"
<didrocks> or whatever english word that is :p
<sil2100> didrocks: ah, you mean the packaging review ;) ?
<kenvandine> i'll go through my cruft this afternoon and clean them up
<seb128> jibel, bah
<seb128> hate new glib
<seb128> larsu, desrt: hey, new glib is making things pretty unhappy (bugs in $things but still)
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, but not needed as kenvandine rightly pointed :)
<seb128> larsu, desrt: do you know about new glib segfault when you try to so IS_OBJECT(obj) on a unrefed object? is that a feature (it used to not segfault)? can we get it back to be robust against those? ;-)
<sil2100> didrocks: I anyway modified the packaging a bit last week for that one, for all components basically
<kenvandine> seb128, like how robust abort on uninstalled schema is?
 * kenvandine ducks
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> sil2100: for all the new ones though, please send me the list along so that I can review
<seb128> kenvandine, don't give those guys crazy ideas
<didrocks> kenvandine: at least, this code path is well tested in production :p
<kenvandine> indeed
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK! Will send it once I'm done with my current business ;)
<didrocks> if it doesn't abort anymore, we'll know quickly :)
 * kenvandine really leaves for lunch now
<didrocks> enjoy!
<didrocks> sil2100: sounds good!
<seb128> kenvandine, have fun, you will have an update mr when you get back
<larsu> seb128: nobody shold ever call anything on a dangling pointer in C
<larsu> the fact that this didn't crash before can only have been a happy accident
<seb128> larsu, :-(
<seb128> larsu, I know, but an handy one, we have segfault at every corner
<seb128> larsu, do you know if g_clear_object() is smart enough to do obj = NULL only when ref = 0?
<larsu> seb128: yes it is (in fact, I was just about to propose that)
<seb128> larsu, notify-osd as objects that are refed > 1 so I can't replace g_object_unref by...
<seb128> oh I can
<seb128> *great*
<seb128> as->has
<larsu> seb128: don't forget dereferencing the object when passing it in: g_clear_object (&object)
<larsu> it will automatically set the pointer to NULL for you
<seb128> larsu, but only if ref = 0 right?
<larsu> no, always
<seb128> larsu, if object has a ref of 2 it will just unref?
<seb128> larsu, that was my question ... so I can't use it :-(
<larsu> hm I don't understand
<larsu> if you're done with the object, you don't want a pointer to it anymore, right?
<seb128> I'm not done
<larsu> because it might or might not be freed in the unref (depending on whether anyone else has a ref)
<seb128> I might just drop one of ref
<seb128> larsu, if ref = 2 and I call unref I'm not done
<seb128> I'm just getting one step closer from being done
<seb128> in which case I don't want to loose my pointer
<Laney> the call site is done with it
<desrt> seb128: you're kidding, right? :)
<desrt> about: 12:22 < seb128> larsu, desrt: do you know about new glib segfault when you try to so IS_OBJECT(obj) on a unrefed  object? is that a feature (it used to not segfault)? can we get it back to be robust against those? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, surely you should only call unref once you're done?
<seb128> desrt, I wish, I got 3 people pinging me about new segfault in saucy today because of that
<desrt> seb128: ya.... so i have a solution for this problem in the future
<larsu> seb128: it sounds like that code is doing something wrong. Can you point me to the code that is causing trouble?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what if you call _ref twice?
<desrt> we make criticals more visible :)
<larsu> haha
<seb128> larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/1189281 read my comment at the bottom
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1189281 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "notify-osd sefaults in bubble_get_id() trying to access an unrefed object" [High,Confirmed]
<larsu> seb128: don't call ref twice on the same pointer variable, that's bad form
<Laney> open nautilus, click trash, close nautilus
<Laney> that's an easy one to reproduce
<desrt> but seriously.... obviously doing _anything_ with a pointer to a gobject after you call unref() the last time (thus freeing it!) is totally and utterly undefined
<desrt> and always has been
<seb128> larsu, I might just not understand what notify-osd is doing well, that code is a bit of a mess :/
<desrt> just because it sometimes works to access memory after you free() it doesn't mean that you should rely on this behaviour
<seb128> right, I'm not arguing you should
<seb128> it would be easier if g_object_unref(obj) was just setting obj = NULL when ref = 0, so if(obj) in follow code would work :p
<desrt> anyway.... in theory nothing changed about unref() at all
<desrt> it's just that memory is aligned differently now... so that things that randomly used to work no longer will work
<desrt> probably some new things that didn't used to work now randomly _will_ work :p
<desrt> (but in any case, you should never rely on these things)
<desrt> seb128: well... this is not possible in C
<seb128> desrt, well, point is that we have a bunch of segfaults showing up since glib is getting less tolerant
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/move_ofono_to_head/+merge/167344 <- this is all that is left to do, besides re-enabling dee-qt for daily_release
<desrt> seb128: it didn't get less tolerant
<desrt> just different
<seb128> well, end result is less tolerance in practice
<desrt> it's like if you take the train for a year and you notice that the ticket inspectors only come on tuesdays
<seb128> it segfault where it was hitting warnings
<desrt> so you learn that you can avoid paying for the train on days that are not tuesdays
<desrt> then one day they change the schedule and start checking on fridays instead of tuesdays
<desrt> this is effectively what happened....
<seb128> well, when it has been 25 years this way people who don't read the written guide might thing what they do is the rule :p
<desrt> so we had all of these fridays-bugs that were slipping through the cracks and are now being caught
<seb128> I'm not arguing anyway
<desrt> but the good news is that we can now have tuesday-bugs that nobody will notice
<seb128> just saying we have a bunch of segfaults to fix that started showing up (rightly)
<desrt> :p
<seb128> like
<seb128> <Laney> open nautilus, click trash, close nautilus
<seb128> -> segfaul
<desrt> fwiw, if people valgrinded their programs to begin with, this would not have been an issue in the first place
<desrt> (nautilus:16000): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: instance with invalid (NULL) class pointer
<desrt> (nautilus:16000): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_signal_handler_disconnect: assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed
<desrt> yup....
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/src/nautilus-trash-bar.c?id=3d278607782dffa724d91680f4278273583e3962
<seb128> that's the fix I guess
 * seb128 tries
<Laney> already trying it
<seb128> Laney, ok, I let it to you then ;-)
<Laney> glad for the change after WTFing at qml for a while
<seb128> the notify-osd one is more annoying
<seb128> since the ref goes over 1 for those objects
<seb128> I can't simply null after unref
<larsu> seb128: that won't help you anyways, 'bubble' is a local variable
<desrt> ==16198== Invalid read of size 8
<desrt> ==16198==    at 0x3A4E03147D: g_type_check_instance (in /usr/lib64/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3600.2)
<desrt> ==16198==    by 0x3A4E01ECD2: g_signal_handler_disconnect (in /usr/lib64/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3600.2)
<desrt> ==16198==    by 0x462400: ??? (in /usr/bin/nautilus)
<desrt> ==16198==    by 0x3A4E0154C0: g_object_run_dispose (in /usr/lib64/libgobject-2.0.so.0.3600.2)
<desrt> says valgrind....
<seb128> desrt, of course, it's an use after free ... as said I'm not arguing they are error
<seb128> but for some reasons that was not causing straight segfault in raring
<seb128> so we didn't notice them
<desrt> indeed
<seb128> but anyway, let's just fix those
<desrt> seb128: this is why i've been arguing for more aggressively criticals for a long time...
<desrt> because....
<desrt> (nautilus:16198): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_signal_handler_disconnect: assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed
<desrt> if we paid attention to criticals, this bug would have been fixed as soon as it was introduced
<seb128> desrt, I'm glad that you guys are working on reporting those without hitting users with abort()
<desrt> but instead, it went unnoticed for years and then suddenly crashed due to an unrelated change
<desrt> seb128: so i guess to address your primary underlying concern: 'hopefully this sort of thing will be less of an issue in the future'
<desrt> but for now ya... we just gotta fix our stuff :/
<seb128> desrt, yep
<Laney> I lost track of why we haven't gone for nautilus 3.8 btw (where this would have been fixed, along with "various memory bugs" reported in the same one that this one was)
<mhr3> ...or revert glib :)
<desrt> mhr3: so that we can continue to ignore bugs in other packages? :)
<seb128> Laney, mostly "Unity/Compiz really needs to handle drawing the desktop itself (when Nautilus doesn't)"
<Laney> oh yeah, that stuff
<desrt> didn't cosimo have some plan for splitting out the background handling stuff in a nice way for us?
<seb128> desrt, well, they sort of did
<desrt> or is this about the rgba root window thing?
<jbicha> Laney: also bug 1130746
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1130746 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Update to nautilus 3.7.90" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130746
<seb128> the rgba
<desrt> right
 * desrt is shocked that compiz still doesn't deal with this....
<seb128> they kept the background drawing for the new fallback mode
<mhr3> desrt, yep :) i like what you're doing here - making devs actually pay attention to ref counting issues, but in this case you just made all the apps that have an issue with it crash, and i'm not sure that's a nice thing to do
<desrt> fwiw, i guess nautilus desktop drawing will be around for a while
<seb128> yes, as long as the "classic" mode of gnome-shell is around I guess
<desrt> mhr3: i didn't do it on purpose.... i did the equivalent of changing an algorithm in malloc()
<mhr3> desrt, i know, you shuffled the structs around...
<desrt> seb128: the classic stuff is pretty nicely done... i think they'll want to keep it for a while
<larsu> seb128: you can't solve the notify-osd problem with setting bubble in stack_layout to NULL, because that's a different variable
 * desrt tried it in f19 for a while
<larsu> seb128: what you need is to g_object_ref(bubble) in stack_notify_handler (and the corresponding unref at the end)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i was just about to say, it sounds like the caller of stack_layout needs to hold a ref
<larsu> seb128: so that in case the stack_layout unrefs it, you can still access it
<larsu> seb128: that's a bit ugly, but the best I can come up with in that architecture
<seb128> larsu, want to provide a patch or merge request? I'm mostly looking at it because MacSlow isn't and I want the segfault fixed but I've nfc about that code, out of that it does has very weird memory handling
<larsu> seb128: nfc?
<Laney> no fine clue
<larsu> interesting, thanks Laney
<Laney> or something ...
<Laney> like...that...
<larsu> seb128: I can do it. Do you have a way to reproduce this easily?
<seb128> larsu, put something full screen and send a notification, I do it with f11 and "sleep 3; notify-send "bug""
<seb128> larsu, thanks ;-)
<larsu> seb128: thanks, will fix it after lunch
<seb128> larsu: danke
<larsu> de rien
<seb128> larsu: I'm assigning you the bug ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, "19_unity_open_location_xid.patch: Disabled, needs refactoring
<seb128>   - What is the purpose of this patch" ...
<seb128> did you check with Trevinho?
<jbicha> Trevinho: ^
<jbicha> seb128: now I have :)
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> yeah, that seems to fix it
<Laney> i'll upload that
<Laney> kenvandine: btw, looks like you forgot to push your second e-d-s upload
<Laney> also, are those forwarded?
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, did you see that there is a mr to fix uoa not being listed?
<Laney> no
<Laney> does it add a desktop file?
<Laney> can't see it
<seb128> Laney, let me check where I saw it, it was this morning in my backlog
<seb128> I don't find it in my emails, could have been sponsoring page or top of version...
 * seb128 checks those
<Laney> yes, linked from versions
<seb128> versions for the win ;-)
<Laney> jbicha: sorry, didn't get to vala - will do tomorrow
<attente> jbicha, which bzr branches are the g-s-d and g-c-c of the gnome3 staging ppa based on?
<jbicha> attente: we weren't using bzr branches :( but please use https://code.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/gnome-control-center/ubuntu and https://code.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu now
<jbicha> darkxst: ricotz: ^
<attente> jbicha, thanks
<jbicha> attente: you don't need write access yet, right?
<attente> jbicha, no, i can push it to a separate ppa
<Trevinho> jbicha: about that patch, I need that for correctly and fully implementing the matching of devices and nautilus windows...
<jbicha> Trevinho: when you get a chance, can you update your patch against nautilus 3.8? there's a branch attached to bug 1130746
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1130746 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Update to nautilus 3.8" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1130746
<kenvandine> Laney, oh yeah.. and yes it has already been merged upstream
<kenvandine> Laney, pushed
<rickspencer3> is anyone else seeing U1 sync daemon, bootchart, and apt-check going crazy in saucy?
<rickspencer3> when I boot up these 3 processes take over my netbook
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, not me
<seb128> not me either
<rickspencer3> weird
<rickspencer3> seb128, why would bootchart even run?
<seb128> because it's installed and run at boot?
<seb128> that's its purposed, run at boot so it can chart the system start
<kenvandine> sounds like it never sees that the boot is complete
<seb128> does it keep running for ever?
<seb128> it should stop after some minutes
<Laney> rockin'
<seb128> Laney, ?
<Laney> seb128: @ ken ;-)
<seb128> oh, k ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-11
<TheMuso> c/c
<pitti> Good morning
<bkerensa> are app previews supposed to be default in Unity now? This means an extra click just to open an app.... workflow is suffering
<jbicha> bkerensa: bug 1188656
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1188656 in unity (Ubuntu) "Bring back single left mouse click to open unity dash icons" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1188656
<didrocks> thanks Mirv ;) (and hey!). What were the platform issues? (I saw the FTBFS, but didn't open)
<Mirv> didrocks: hey! there was some random apt-get update has mismatch error that had stopped qtubuntu build before it started
<Mirv> s/has/hash/
<didrocks> Mirv: ok, so nothing that we can prevent?
<Mirv> probably not, if it was some delicate archive update timing issue
<didrocks> ok, thanks Mirv :)
<Mirv> you're welcome
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va?
<jibel> bonjour didrocks , Ã§a va pas trop mal et toi?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va bien :)
<Laney> hey there
<seb128> Laney, good morning, how are you?
<Laney> pretty good
<Laney> just watched an epic 20 minute bird fight take place outside my house, that's a fun way to start the day
<Laney> you?
<seb128> ahah
<seb128> just finished my first coffee, let fun day start but useful one :p
<Laney> 6 magpies!
<sil2100> didrocks: so, the stack status:
<sil2100> didrocks: apps stack failed due to a flackyness of autopilot, we get that sometimes, I'll re-poke the guys about it, a re-run should be fine
<sil2100> didrocks: HUD is still basically 'blocked' on those two HUD failures, this seems like a real bug
<sil2100> didrocks: Ted was looking into that but I did not get a report from him and his findings
<sil2100> didrocks: I suspect it might be related to HUD <-> u-g-m support
<sil2100> (even though Ted added support for that lately)
<seb128> sil2100, ted set up some merge requests to fix hud issues yesterday
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/hud/bamf-focus-fix/+merge/168539
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/hud/proper-client-names/+merge/168518
<seb128> sil2100, you should retry once those fixes are merged in
<sil2100> seb128: will do, we'll have to get those reviewed first though
<seb128> right, ping larsu/charles when they are online
<sil2100> seb128: thanks for pointing those out
<sil2100> didrocks: ^
<seb128> yw
<seb128> sil2100, can you approve https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/gnome-control-center-unity/correct-async-calls/+merge/168620 ?
<sil2100> didrocks: as for indicators... some prepare jobs failed, looks like a jenkins issue
<sil2100> seb128: looking
<seb128> sil2100, it's a backport of a GNOME commit and I confirmed it fixes the segfault that happens if go appareance and click back on "all settings"
<seb128> sil2100, thanks for reviewing it ;-)
<darkxst> Laney, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=701964
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 701964 in Misc. "evolution-data-server provider not displayed in UOA." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<Laney> darkxst: It seems to work with NoDisplay=true
<darkxst> yeh sure, but upstream didnt seem to keen on adding a desktop file for e-d-s
<Laney> it sounds like his concern is having it appear in launchers and stuff
<darkxst> Laney, ok
 * Laney commented
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/qa_add_missing_package/+merge/168627
<sil2100> didrocks: this would unblock qa
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime, I go rest for some time
<didrocks> sil2100: did you relaunch indicators?
<didrocks> had*
<didrocks> doesn't seem so
<didrocks> I'll relaunch it with just indicator-datetime
<didrocks> sil2100: not sure what's up in unity though, did you look?
<sil2100> didrocks: I took a quick one, but it seemed like a lot of failures ;/
<sil2100> No reason for those though
<seb128> didrocks, sil2100: do you know what the autolander is unhappy about there? https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/fix-1189281/+merge/168550
<seb128> is it due to the coverity issues?
<didrocks> seb128: I got similar issues with the medium job, I had to ask mmrazik/fghinter to disable it for another one
<seb128> fginther, ^
<didrocks> sil2100: I relaunched the QA stack FYI after deploying
 * didrocks wonders why getPublishedBinaries() doesn't take any status parameter compared to the docâ¦
 * didrocks wonders why Launchpad is lying that muchâ¦
<didrocks> it's annoying, in that particular case :/
<Laney> In [1]: lp.distributions['ubuntu'].main_archive.getPublishedBinaries(binary_name='dconf', status='Superseded')[0].binary_package_version
<Laney> Out[1]: u'1.6-0ubuntu1'
<Laney> didrocks: ^?
<didrocks> Laney: I'm using the getPublishedBinaries over a source object
<Laney> I don't see that the docs there claim that it takes a status parameter
<didrocks> Laney: argh, Ctrl + F failure, I was on the one in the archive, didn't notice I changed section
<Laney> heh :P
<didrocks> (weird to have same function names, but different parameters support)
<didrocks> but stillâ¦ ok :p
<maxb> I have a weird problem with Chromium - for some reason it declines to offer to remember passwords for *some* sites on my company intranet that use HTTP Basic auth. Can anyone give me pointers to turning this into a less-than-useless bug report? (e.g. is there any way I can make it log potentially relevant stuff?)
<maxb> Chrome works, fwiw
<didrocks> qengho: hey, any hint? ^
<maxb> oh, and I blew away my entire ~/.config/chromium/ to verify it's not some profile-related quirk
<didrocks> Mirv: any news on python-ubuntu-platform-api? this starts to block jibel and I running otto on the phablet :)
<Mirv> didrocks: the last fix to the packaging is now merged at lp:python-upa
<didrocks> Mirv: want me to pre-NEW it? then we can add it to a stack?
 * didrocks announces that now cu2d can now ignore some optional archs conditionnaly (if it's not published in archive or ppa, in the dest)
<Laney> woot
<seb128> didrocks, well done ;-)
<didrocks> thx :)
<Mirv> didrocks: yes, please. let's see if you spot anything, and please tell if you want those more cosmetic lintian errors silenced (sil2100 opted not to use lintian-overrides for those)
<didrocks> Mirv: sure, will do :)
<didrocks> Mirv: minor, but debian/copyright says 2012 and the headers are 2013 :)
<didrocks> Mirv: however, more annoying: the project rename wasn't done?
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/python-upa
<didrocks> and source package is python-ubuntu-platform-api
<didrocks> IIRC, we agreed to that renamed
<didrocks> Mirv: as I don't build on armhf, do you have somewhere the build logs + lintian?
<didrocks> Mirv: this is all what I spotted on the source so far :)
<desrt> word up, eurodudes
<Mirv> didrocks: I was wondering about the project name as well, didn't know it was agreed to be renamed
<didrocks> hey desrt, how is it going?
<Mirv> didrocks: I've the pbuilder logs, I can put them up
<didrocks> Mirv: oh, no worry, I'm stealing the autopilot ppa :)
<Mirv> didrocks: so you want project name renamed, or source package renamed?
<didrocks> binary-without-manpage -> we can ignore that :)
<desrt> didrocks: great!!
<didrocks> Mirv: wdyt? I think the source package name makes more sense to me
<Mirv> didrocks: me too, ok
<didrocks> Mirv: let's do that
<didrocks> czajkowski: hey, around?
<didrocks> Mirv: ok, all look good otherwise, do you mind preparing the MP with the renaming needed in the package (+ the year typo in debian/copyright fixed?)
<didrocks> I'll coordinate with czajkowski about the launchpad side :)
<Mirv> didrocks: ok, will do, I created https://launchpad.net/python-ubuntu-platform-api though with the same maintainer/driver already :(
<Mirv> too fast
<czajkowski> didrock back in a bit out at physio
<didrocks> Mirv: let's see how we can deal with it, no worry! :)
<czajkowski> didrocks ^^
<didrocks> czajkowski: just ping me once you are available, no worry!
<Mirv> didrocks: I could just push the trunk in there, and then we'd change configuration as needed. python-upa-team is fine as is.
<didrocks> Mirv: we need to move bug reports
<didrocks> hum, one fix committed bug
<didrocks> it's tempting :)
<didrocks> Mirv: let's do the branch change first and see how long it is for czajkowski to be back. If we can't do it before eod, let's move manually
<didrocks> sounds good?
<Mirv> sounds good
<Mirv> https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/python-upa/rename_project_update_copyright/+merge/168664
<didrocks> Mirv: approved, just remain the cupstream2distro-config change and then redeploying the QA stack :)
<Mirv> didrocks: any chance at the precise SRU in near future, btw? your patch pilot turn last week was in the middle of saucy chaos..
<Mirv> but there'd the next SRU already knocking at the door, so the previous would be nice to get out sooner rather than later
<didrocks> Mirv: yeah, I plan to do my patch pilot this week
<didrocks> Mirv: but seeing how active the SRU team is :/
<didrocks> Mirv: I'm afraid that the raring second publish SRU is going the same road than the first one, isn't it?
<didrocks> Mirv: or did you see progress?
<Mirv> ok.. and yes, that's another thing altogether (although precise queue is quite empty)
<Mirv> didrocks: I did, in the sense they were looked at, I got the comments on the changelog cosmetic issues but they weren't synced still. I'm now waiting for a reply to my latest ping.
<didrocks> well, same people, so maybe they won't get to it as wellâ¦
<didrocks> it's sad to have a fix for unity touching netbooks for a month and half and still no review :/
<didrocks> Mirv: ok, keep me posted!
<qengho> maxb: The Way to avoid profile interaction is to run "chromium-browser --temp-profile", btw.
<Mirv> didrocks: I will
<maxb> qengho: I'll bear it in mind for the future :-)
<qengho> maxb: so, what are the versions of Chrome and chromium-browser?
<maxb> 27.0.1453.110-r202711 and 25.0.1364.160-0ubuntu3
<maxb> (This is on raring, with the http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb stable main repo)
<didrocks> qengho: btw, when can we get a new chromium? I need 26 for css transitions on pseudo elements :)
<qengho> didrocks: Sorry, you're only getting 27.
<qengho> didrocks: webapps patches aren't working right now, so once that's solved, it's in.
<qengho> maxb: Hrm, okay. With a clean or temp profile, chromium doesn't offer to remember some passwords?
<didrocks> qengho: I can live with 27 (but not sure what's new I would need) :p
<mhr3> ogra_, stgraber, seb128 tells me you'd know about the operator-specific partition for customizations, is this specced out somewhere already?
<maxb> qengho: That is correct. Unfortunately I've been unable to spot any obvious differences in the sites where it does vs. does not
<ogra_> mhr3, not specced at all yet ... stgraber should know whats planned for image based upgrades though
<qengho> maxb: fun. Let's test something.  $ chrome --user-data-dir=$(mktemp -d chromeXXXXXXXX)
<mhr3> stgraber, so any place where i could read about this? like how is it going to work, where will the partition be mounted, etc, etc?
<qengho> maxb: and then use that new Chrome browser to log in to those sites too.
<maxb> qengho: Well... actually with chromium-browse --temp-profile it doesn't seem to want to remember *any* passwords - though that's possibly because the "do you want to save the password" is being trumped by a "do you want to install the unity webapps plugin" ?
<qengho> maxb: "Trumped"? They should stack.
<maxb> OK, in that case it's just not appearing at all
<qengho> ...I think.
<maxb> So, you'd like me to test chrome with a different --user-data-dir? not chromium-browser ?
<qengho> maxb: yes. I once had a extension that rewrote web pages to remove the  autocomplete="no"  from web pages.  If your intranet has that, and your Chrome is changing it, but Chromium isn't, that could explain it.
<maxb> OK, I'll try it, but all of the problems are with *HTTP* auth, so there shouldn't be any HTML involved?
<qengho> maxb: oh.
<qengho> Still, bare browsers, both and confirm.
<maxb> google-chrome with --user-data-dir prompted and saved ok to gnome keyring
<maxb> chromium-browser with --user-data-dir did not prompt
<stgraber> mhr3: the current plan is to have a path on the system partition that'd be reserved for such customizations. That path would have to always be empty in the base rootfs image, then we can have a second image that we stack on the base one with just that directory.
<qengho> maxb: Interesting!  That's definitely worthy of a bug report. Do you have a Launchpad account?
<maxb> ~maxb
<maxb> It is irksome that I've only managed to reproduce it with intranet sites
<mhr3> stgraber, ok, how will that path be exposed to apps/libs? or will we just change one of the XDG_ dirs?
<qengho> maxb: agreed.   :(
<stgraber> mhr3: no idea, I'm just providing an empty dir that additional images can dump stuff into. What's in there and how it's used is for someone else to figure out.
<qengho> maxb: care to capture the headers on the response that signals auth is needed?
<mhr3> stgraber, who is that someone? :)
<Mirv> didrocks: regarding a bamf changelog fix I did (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/bamf/0.4/revision/538 - adding a LP: bug number and removeing repeating the same message), what should we do if we'd like to have the same 13.05.31 release in the SRU queue but with its changelog entry fixed?
<Mirv> didrocks: should we do manual uploads to SRU queue in those cases, for example dget:ing the version, fixing the changelog manually and uploading?
<stgraber> mhr3: I have absolutely no idea ;) I've been talking about that kind of stuff with lool so maybe he knows who's in charge of that side of things.
<mhr3> lool, ping? :)
<mhr3> stgraber, is at least the path already well known?
<stgraber> mhr3: no
<qengho> maxb: okay, never mind.  It looks like this is a bug that's fixed in v27.
<maxb> Oh, heh
<qengho> maxb: the upcoming update will fix you.
<stgraber> mhr3: as far as I'm concerned, it can be anywhere on the fs as long as we make sure never to write anything to it in the base image, was hoping that whoever was speccing that bit would suggest one :)
<maxb> OK then. What was the factor that was somehow affecting only some sites?
<qengho> maxb: no idea.
<qengho> maxb: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=174199
<mhr3> stgraber, and do you know who is speccing it out?
<stgraber> mhr3: wish I knew, lool is really your best bet at this point I think
<didrocks> Mirv: did we have any other update in bamf 0.4 since the 13.05.31?
<Mirv> didrocks: unfortunately yes
<mhr3> stgraber, k, will bother him once he's him, thx for help so far
<mhr3> s/him/here/
<qengho> maxb: As a workaround TRY putting your username in the URL.  http://maxb@skunkworks.internal/hax0r
<Mirv> didrocks: so the question is what to do in such a situation where we'd like to have it still SRUed but with a fixed changelog
<didrocks> Mirv: hum, so yeah, manual upload in that case and MP to get that back in the 0.4 branch
<Mirv> didrocks: ok
<maxb> For now I will work around it by saving the passwords in Chrome (having fiddled things such that Chrome and Chromium are using the same application ID to talk to gnome-keyring)
<qengho> maxb: okay.  Thanks for asking.
<Trevinho> jbicha: hi, could you please check if lp:~jbicha/bamf/have-dev-depend-on-gir still merges with trunk?
<lool> mhr3: pong
<mhr3> lool, i'm trying to figure out if the operator-specific partition/image is specced out somewhere?
<Mirv> didrocks: should we consider some sort of system were SRU branch merges should be actually stalled until the previous published-to-queue one gets into the archives? it'd solve situations like this
<lool> mhr3: I've quickly scanned the backlog, I think you're asking about "partition for customizations"; I don't think we've defined the specific idea of a partition which would hold specifiically customizations, but we've had chats about customizations and about partitioning, would you mind going into more details on your top goals between these two?
<didrocks> Mirv: maybe, not sure if upstream would be happy about it though. Also, if it's stalled for a long time, we can have a lot of branches to merge in one shot. If there is a regression, we can't go back in history and see when the regression started to happen (which merge)
<didrocks> Mirv: so they are both pros and consâ¦
<Mirv> didrocks: true. just a thought in the air.
<didrocks> Mirv: I wonder if we can't have continuing build, and stalling "trunk maintenance branch" at the same time. Something to think about :)
<lool> stgraber: Ah I see now why mhr3 went to you, there are 2 efforts / projects which customizations will affect
<lool> stgraber: on one side e.g. unity teams for unity customization points (obviously)
<lool> stgraber: but on the other side there's the question of supporting customizations in the images
<lool> stgraber: right now our answer would be to build custom images and a custom distribution channel
<lool> stgraber: but that'd mean fragmentation and many images to maintain; what we could do is have some kind of overlay; in fact I think the current image updates would preserve additional files such as overrides in the image, but I wouldn't want us to rely on this
<ogra_> define overlay ...
<didrocks> ogra_: got a keyword on it? :p
<ogra_> we noticed that loop mounting images gives us a big performance hit
<lool> completely open for discussion  :-)
<lool> I wouldn't want fs overlays I think
<ogra_> so we cant really use that
<ogra_> the other option i see for an overlay would be copying stuff in at boot time
<ogra_> which will make the boot slow
<lool> only the first boot though, yeah that could work
<didrocks> first boot only?
<lool> depends whether you copy stuff in the user data partition or in the system partition
<ogra_> lxc-android-config already ships an upstart job that creates the fstab on first boot ... (i doubt we'll keep it though, but as interim solution it could be extended)
<stgraber> lool: the plan so far as we discussed it at the sprint was to only allow customizations (both default config and extra apps) through a single integration point, which would be a specific path on the filesystem
<ogra_> stgraber, and how would youput that in place ?
<stgraber> lool: when flashing, we'd first apply the full image for the system, then another image which would only write to that path
<ogra_> ah, at install time
<ogra_> sounds more clever than first boot
<stgraber> ogra_: I'm not talking about an overlay, I'm talking about a simple directory that the various bits will have to look at
<lool> stgraber: I quickly grep-ed the wiki pages for "custom" but couldn't find this; did we capture this in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades.* wiki pages yet?
<lool> stgraber: if not, I guess we could followup on this discussion and capture the workflow
<stgraber> lool: nope, it's not mentioned in the current set of wiki pages because the spec itself covers it (we can have any number of tarball unpacked on top of any partition). I'm not against adding it to the spec explicitly but would prefer to have the rest of that feature specced by the relevant team first to make sure we didn't miss anything
<lool> stgraber: I think it's something we need to define along factory reset
<stgraber> to be clear, I really don't care how we do this and what goes in there, on my side, all I'll have to do is ship an extra tarball for those devices
<lool> stgraber: that's the thing, I'm not sure the tarball would be shipped
<stgraber> lool: won't affect factory reset as the data is stored on the system partition and so won't get wiped
<lool> stgraber: it might just be something we have somewhere at factory flash time, and then gets updated forever
<stgraber> lool: that'd work too. If a carrier/oem decides to only do partial updates, then they never have to ship a full tarball of those bits.
<lool> stgraber: so basically the approach is that we are careful to never mkfs, even when installing a full image, yes?
<stgraber> lool: no, when we get a full image, every bits have to be there, so we will format in that case then unpack the tarballs in the right order on top of the partition.
<stgraber> lool: what I'm saying is that a carrier who doesn't want to publish those bits as a tarball (which seems silly considering anyone can build the tarball from their own device anyway) will just have to stick to partial images only (which they're likely to want anyway)
<stgraber> in which case, we never reformat as we never have full images
<lool> stgraber: sorry, I think the use case I was describing wasn't clear
<lool> stgraber: currently we say that OEMs need custom images
<lool> stgraber: I'm saying it would be good to have a support path for official unmodified ubuntu touch images and distribution channels _with_ preserved OEM changes
<lool> stgraber: that is, there would be OEM customizations in the factory image, and then the device would get Ubuntu touch updates
<stgraber> lool: I never sayed and never thought we'd use custom images for OEMs
<lool> stgraber: so we'd point at two locations in the device OS updater config?  one for OEM tarball and one for Ubuntu?
<stgraber> lool: not in the updater, in the index file on our server. An update can be made of any number of tar.xz files that can come either from our server or from an external server.
<lool> stgraber: so we'd know about every single OEM-ed / customized combination?
<stgraber> lool: for any device that uses our update server, yes
<lool> stgraber: the pro is that this allows us to update the OEM bits, the con is that it means we have a channel / set of hosted files / scripts etc. for each OEM / custom image out there which doesn't seem too scalable
<mdeslaur> seb128, didrocks: have you guys managed to get an alternate keyboard layout in the touch images?
<didrocks> mdeslaur: I never tried to investigate into that area. I think it should be possible with maliit, but didn't get time to look at it
<mdeslaur> didrocks: oh! we're using maliit? i thought it was onboard...ok, thanks, I'll poke some more
<lool> I guess it's ok as an initial approach for us to host tarballs and we can think about providing a more flexible option as an update
<stgraber> lool: well, technically the only extra hosted file would be the OEM customization so we won't waste much space, we won't need extra scripts per OEM either, we'll just need a rather massive loop that goes through every single channel and device to publish the update.
<lool> it doesn't change how customizastions themselves would be implemented anyway
<didrocks> mdeslaur: I'm 95% sure we are using maliit :)
<stgraber> lool: recent talks with slangasek, achiang, ... also showed that OEM/carriers are likely to want QA before any publishing, so we already need fine grained publishing for those
<lool> stgraber: I had conflicting reports there
<lool> stgraber: on one end of the spectrum, we'd want to be able to release different versions to different OEMs at different times
<lool> stgraber: at the other end of the spectrum, we'd want everyone to run the latest and the same Ubuntu, possibly with some OEM customizations on top, but up-to-date
<lool> stgraber: was this on some list?
<lool> stgraber: I guess we ought to settle this and put it on the wiki
<stgraber> lool: right, but there are legal/liability concerns and that's where we're stuck at for now
<ritz_> seb128  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/723864  , this dialog has been removed from gnome-keyring
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 723864 in gnome-keyring (Ubuntu) "The alignment of the â[number of minutes] minutesâ selector in the âUnlock Keyringâ window is wrong." [Wishlist,Triaged]
<lool> stgraber: yup, and perhaps we will want both options, let's find out; one way to look at it is pleasing the OEM, another angle is building a strong product / avoiding fragmentation, both are valid view points and we need to arbitrate between the two
 * lool brb
<didrocks> Mirv: sil2100: ok, renaming done, I'll add it to the QA stack, redeploy and rerun the stack
<didrocks> then sil2100, if everything pass, mind publishing?
<lool> stgraber: was the top-level dir for customization agreed upon?
<stgraber> lool: not that I know of
<jbicha> is this symbol drop ok? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution-data-server/ubuntu/revision/188
<fginther> seb128, FYI alesage is looking into https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/fix-1189281/+merge/168550
<alesage> seb128, indeed I'm looking into, will ping
<seb128> fginther, alesage: hey, thanks
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK
<seb128> jbicha, usual rule is to check if the symbol was in a public .h, if it was you should grep rdepends of the lib to see if any use it at least
<jbicha> Shotwell suddenly starting failing to build within the hour http://paste.ubuntu.com/5755143/
<seb128> jbicha, seems like a doko issue, ask on #ubuntu-devel?
<Riddell> anyone looked at doing a transition to libical 1.0?
 * Riddell takes that as a no and goes ahead
<Laney> not that I know of
<Laney> make sure you build test rdeps first ;-)
<Riddell> yeah that's what I'm doing now
<Riddell> about 20+ of them  :(
<attente> dednick, hi
<attente> do you know if the new format for the indicator manifests is merged into libindicator?
<olli_> charles_, ping
<larsu> attente: it's merged into trunk...
<attente> larsu, oh...
<attente> thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, qengho, Laney, mlankhorst, tkamppeter, attente, desrt, larsu: hey, it's meeting time
<qengho> YAY!
<desrt> i love meeting!!!
<mlankhorst> ohai
<seb128> oh, qengho is there this week ;-)
<seb128> qengho, yay to you ;-)
<qengho> Ahem.  :P   thpppt.
<Laney> so it is
<seb128> good that you are here I've a bug for you ;-)
<seb128> let's get started
<seb128> qengho, your turn ;-)
<Riddell> ooh meeting
<qengho> * Trying to get chromium 27 released. To do:
<qengho>   - get #webapps' patches updated.  Blocked.
<qengho>   - fix startup crasher on ARMHF.
<qengho> * Getting feedback on an extension installer package.
<qengho> EOF
<seb128> qengho, one thing to add to your list ... chromium in saucy has no menu at al ... what happened to the patch attente gave you in London?
<attente> seb128, i told him it wasn't necessary because u-g-m hadn't landed
<seb128> well, u-g-m has finally landed...
<qengho> attente: did you plan to make a patch to do it The Right Way?
<Laney> when can we expect the default browser flamefest? :-)
<qengho> Laney: soon.
<qengho> Laney: Like within hours.
 * Laney yessssssss
<attente> qengho, yes, i still have to do it the Right Way, but i wonder if you can re-apply the patch in the mean time?
<qengho> attente: yes, I will apply it to S v27.
<qengho> attente: I will not plan to send it upstream, though, okay?
<attente> qengho, thanks, definitely agreed on that point
<seb128> qengho, you don't plan to make an upload before v27 I guess? Not sure how long it will take to fix webapps and armhf and if we want to keep menus missing during that time
<qengho> seb128: If it takes more than a few days, i'll get older updated.
<Riddell> attente: u-g-m?
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<attente> Riddell, unity-gtk-module
<seb128> Riddell, that's what replaces our hackish gtk patch for unity exported menus
<qengho> I'm done. I hope everyone doesn't take as long as mine.
<seb128> qengho, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> yo
<Laney> echo << EOF
<Laney> â¢ Finshed GLib upload; split out tests into libglib2.0-tests package. TODO: sync packaging back to experimental & package test runner if people think it would be useful (pitti?).
<Laney> â¢ Various bugfixes (wayland, nautilus, ...)
<Laney> â¢ One or two GNOME updates
<Laney> â¢ Fixed a git-annex regression we accidentally introduced in raring
<Laney> â¢ Fair bit of poking at system settings; integrated my previous appearance work with the panel. Pushed it to lp:~laney/+junk/appearance-panel with packaging. Should install and appear in system-settings (but not do anything yet) if you want to try it. Found some UI toolkit oddities / bugs / things I don't know how to do, such as ...
<Laney> ... http://askubuntu.com/questions/306868/how-do-i-get-an-ubuntushape-to-transition-fade-between-different-images (help welcomed)
<Laney> â¢ Talked a bit about gstreamer 1.1 - I'm interested in taking it because it makes a lot (not all) of our plugin moves obsolete.
<Laney> EOF
<seb128> Laney, I will check out your panel for sure
 * seb128 adds to todolist
<Laney> it is mainly just QML stuff
<Laney> I still have to make it nice and reusable and actually do things
<Laney> but it's a start
<seb128> Laney, where/with who did you discuss gstreamer1.1? what's their release schedule?
<Laney> just chatted to slomo, and they don't really have one other than "release when ready"
<Laney> need to update it in experimental first anyway
<seb128> ok ... is that going to change apis/requiring porting for apps?
<Laney> shouldn't do
<seb128> cool
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> 1.x is suppose to be compatible within itself
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> getting nvd7 working on nouveau without requiring external firmware, stack in lts-raring, general sru's, attempting to make Xorg -gpu 1 work correctly (optimus mode), generic nouveau bugfixing
<mlankhorst> ^D
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks ;-)
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<slomo> seb128: it's compatible with 1.0, just adding new features
<seb128> slomo, great, thanks ;-)
<slomo> seb128: while 1.0.x only adds bugfixes
<tkamppeter>  - Installed Saucy on a virtual and a real iron machine, the latter is my Lenovo Thinkpad Twist ultrabook with Raring on the built-in SSD and Saucy on a USB 3.0-connected SanDisk Cruzer Extreme USB 3.0 USB stick 64GB, the stick is nearly as fast as a built-in SSD.
<tkamppeter>  - Packaged CUPS 1.7b1 and uploaded to my PPA for both Raring and Saucy for testing. Announced on ubuntu-devel.
<tkamppeter>  - Updated Ricoh and OEM PPDs and packages on OpenPrinting
<tkamppeter>  - Synced cups-filters and foomatic-db from Debian
<tkamppeter>  - Checked existing patches for on-demand startup of CUPS (for systemd and xinetd) and asked authors for copyright agreement with Apple for upstream inclusion.
<tkamppeter>  - Answered and triaged printing-related bug reports
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
<attente> finished indicator-keyboard svg generator
<attente> the recent ibus issue seems to be because of the gnome-desktop-3 update to 3.8
<attente> working on targeting the region text entry panel to g-c-c and g-s-d 3.8, but introduces some other bugs (no shortcut IM switching, region panel crashes when trying to add an input source)
<attente> EOF
<seb128> attente, what change in gnome-desktop that created the issue?
<attente> seb128, in libgnome-desktop, there were some functions removed from the api
<seb128> hum, anything you need and that we should add back?
<attente> functions that g-s-d 3.6 needed
<seb128> did we break g-s-d with that update?
<attente> seb128, i'm not sure what the better approach is here, to continue with 3.6 or 3.8
<attente> for g-s-d/g-c-c
<attente> seb128, it only seemed that the region support with ibus broke from what i could tell
<seb128> I would keep my recommendation for earlier in the cycle
<seb128> get it to work on 3.6
<seb128> we are not close to update to 3.8 yet and we can't work on a moving target
<attente> seb128, ok, will do
<seb128> I know jbicha and the GNOME guys want g-s-d/g-c-c 3.8 but that's just not there yet
<seb128> so let's land that first, we can forward port later then
<jbicha> darkxst said yesterday he thought we could use g-s-d 3.8 with g-c-c 3.6 (with a few patches for like dbus changes)
<seb128> that would be a good first step ;-)
<seb128> let's settle down the current issues and try to get nautilus 3.8 in
<seb128> then we can look at g-s-d/g-c-c
<seb128> attente, what is missing for the indicator to work? (still need to try that, should be easier now that we got the new glib and your gdk/gtk backport in saucy)
<jbicha> nautilus has just 2 remaining issues (missing New Document from the right-click menu and figuring out desktop background handling with compiz)
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, it's the background one that I wonder about ... maybe we can re-enable the g-s-d plugin and be done with it
<seb128> need to test that
<attente> seb128, if we're sticking to g-c-c/g-s-d 3.6, then the only thing left is for me to fix this ibus issue
<seb128> attente, ok, let's say that's the plan for now then
<robru> seb128, many *-tweak-tool users would appreciate having the g-s-d background plugin re-enabled ;-)
<seb128> attente, thanks
<seb128> robru, seems so indeed
<seb128> attente, oh, and well done on finally getting u-g-m installed by default, it went well, I didn't see any complain yet
<seb128> desrt, hey
<attente> seb128, thanks for landing that
<desrt> seb128: hey
<desrt> worked on the critical reporting stuff
<desrt> and also pretty close to getting larsu's platform data hooks stuff landed (so we can get gdk out of the indicators)
<desrt> finally got the gapplication-implement-freedesktop-dbus-api spec stuff done
<desrt> and also landed the GAppInfo side of that as well
<desrt> also did a patch for the desktop action specification (those extra items when you right-click in the launcher) in GIO which is pretty close to landing, so we can drop our copy of that API in libindicator
<desrt> that's about all
<seb128> great
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> larsu, hey
<larsu> hey seb128
<larsu> I fixed a couple of issues in my gio platform data hooks patch (thanks to the review and help from desrt)
<larsu> ted reviewed a lot of my outstanding branches (i-messages, libido,libindicator), some fixes there as well
<larsu> some more small fixes: notify-osd crash, libindicator crash and test failures
<larsu> and meanwhile, my ongoing work:  indicator-sound/ng and moving media player widget into libido, expect to land it this week
<seb128> landing \o/
<larsu> oh, and I just talked to popey and zsombi about an alarm api in the sdk, and what would be needed from the backend
 * larsu needs someone to ping about for upstart-support of that
<seb128> we are a bit behind on the new indicators it seems, will be nice to see stuff finally aligning and being testable
<larsu> seb128: yes, lots of little issues last week, but we're making progress
<seb128> larsu, talk to James Hunt if you need something from upstart (he's jodh on #ubuntu-devel when he's online)
<larsu> okay, thanks
<larsu> that's all from me, then
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<Sweetshark> seb128: hey
<Sweetshark> - started building LibreOffice 4.1 beta2 - failed with internal liborcus copy as its autoconf/configure wasnt bright enough to find boost system
<Sweetshark> - switched to external liborcus - that configure was fine, but the generated makefiles then failed to build properly against boost system
<Sweetshark> - deepened my profenssional hate for autotools
<Sweetshark> - using a hotpatched liborcus was able to build locally
<Sweetshark> - building in a ppa failed with 'no space left on device' once
<Sweetshark> - second try still running: https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-3-4/+build/4660465 https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-3-4/+build/4660464
<Sweetshark> - preparations for Hamburg Hackfest, of which I inherited the organizer status by not duck-and-covering quick enough as Thorsten (original organizer had to pass it on because of family work: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Hamburg2013
<Sweetshark> - preparing for LibreOffice 4.0.4 build for raring (should most likely be SRUed
<Sweetshark> EOF
<desrt> 'deepened my profenssional hate for autotools'
<qengho> +1
<desrt> how is this different from any other week?
<larsu> desrt: it's stronger on some weeks...
<Sweetshark> desrt: this week has a typo in proffessional for your entertainment.
<desrt> the rate of increase is always changing... but it's always positive, and never zero :)
<larsu> definitely
<qengho> monotonically increasing, even.
<desrt> qengho: the level of hate, yes
<Laney> you meanies
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<desrt> strictly monotonically increasing, except on holidays
<desrt> but the rate of increase is highly variable
 * seb128 hates less autotools since looking at qml stuff using qmake
<seb128> well at less I know autotools, qmake is chinese for me
<desrt> seb128: i never claimed there exists anything better than autotools :p
<larsu> ya, qmake gets quite a few things right
<Laney> tried to debug some cmake last week
<larsu> it's also missing 90% of the features of autotools
<Laney> that was ... yeah
<seb128> hate build systems... ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
<desrt> bake!!!
<seb128> so me
<larsu> Laney: ya, cmake is the same shit in green
<Laney> reminded me of cdbs except harder to read the source to find out what's going on
<seb128>  * worked on system-settings for touch, got a first iteration for the "about this device" panel commited/landed in saucy (doesn't do much yet but it's a start)
<seb128>  * some desktop updates and bug fixes
<seb128>  * chassed some use-after-free issues made visible by the new glib
<seb128>  * reviewed packages in NEW for the new unity and ubuntu touch landing from last week
<qengho> qmake needs some mysterious M4 layer to be more awesome.
<seb128> that's it
<seb128> is there any question/comment?
<seb128> otherwise we are just on time for didrocks' part of the meeting
<Laney> nop
<didrocks> lateeee! :)
<didrocks> not on time, 1min!
<didrocks> can't live with it ;)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> thanks seb128 :)
<didrocks> ok, hey Mirv, sil2100, kenvandine, robru, cyphermox! How are you guys?
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy ;-)
<seb128> (thanks everyone)
 * kenvandine waves
<larsu> thanks seb128
<Mirv> back from some exercise, good
<didrocks> Mirv: just in time?
<cyphermox> could be better. no closer to fixing battery and policykit issues on touch w.r.t wifi
<cyphermox> (yet anyway)
<robru> walking upright today!
<Mirv> didrocks: about, I timed my run so that I'd be back for this
<didrocks> robru: \o/
<Mirv> robru: whoo
<didrocks> Mirv: great ;)
<robru> ;-)
<cyphermox> robru: \o/
<didrocks> robru: nice to see you back dude!
<sil2100> Hi!
<didrocks> hey sil2100 :)
<sil2100> I'm sicky sicky
<sil2100> robru: ! welcome back ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: hope that's going to be better tomorrow :/
<robru> thanks guys! great to be back
<didrocks> ok, so let's start
<didrocks> I think the big news of the week is having unity 7, 100 scopes and most of touch in distro now!
<robru> sweeet
<sil2100> I hope so, I have an appoitment with the doctor in an hour, so I guess I'll know more then
<sil2100> \o/
<didrocks> no more "next" ppa. You can tell everyone using "daily-build-next" or "next" how wrong they are :)
<didrocks> we had some copyright issues when prenewing
<didrocks> but basically it's done
<didrocks> however, when reviewing the NEW packages, seb128 and I had some comments
<didrocks> and it would be good to clean those with the help of upstream
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5741741/
<didrocks> so I would suggest everyone looks at his stacks
<didrocks> and see what's impacted by this
<didrocks> note the global "check if the package should be multiarched as well"
<robru> didrocks, I see some of my stack in there... ;-)
<Mirv> that's probably good to for all, it's going to be a pain if there's a need for multi-arch noted later on..
<didrocks> robru: glad you are back to clean those :p
<didrocks> Mirv: exactly!
<didrocks> I added the "Clean all new packages" (line 20) https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dHFtUmlPOUtCRk8zR2dtaEpIbUVhMmc#gid=0
<didrocks> fine with everyone?
<Mirv> no libindicator multi-arch either still I guess..
<kenvandine> yup
<robru> didrocks, ok, should this be my priority for the day then?
<Mirv> yes, thanks, bookmarked that pastebin as well
<didrocks> robru: I think it can be, that and making your stack read!
<didrocks> green*
 * didrocks switches brain on
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> lets all make our stacks red
<robru> didrocks, oh yeah, what happened there? it's in manual publishing mode? I tried to read the status but it didn't make a lot of sense to me
<didrocks> kenvandine: that's the default it seems :)
<robru> kenvandine, that's too easy ;-)
<didrocks> robru: ah, we can look together if needed :p
<sil2100> Yep
<didrocks> speaking of which, so everyone, please look at your stacks
<didrocks> cyphermox: you have some manual publishing for instance
<didrocks> now that we landed everything and had everything green, the sooner we catch and fix issues, the better
<didrocks> kenvandine has a rebuild in progress
<didrocks> and sil2100 handled hud/indicators
<didrocks> (Mirv did the manual publish)
<robru> didrocks, yeah, I think I need some 1on1 to help me catch up. after the meeting?
<didrocks> so let's try to keep that trend and have everything dealt promptly as first task of the day
<didrocks> robru: fine with me!
<sil2100> didrocks: I'll have to re-run hud now, since all the fixes landed
<didrocks> sil2100: \o/
<didrocks> on that note, 2 announcement on cupstream2distro for this week:
<didrocks> - the QA stack status don't impact the other stacks
<didrocks> so basically, all other stacks wait for QA to finish (as any dep on other stack)
<didrocks> but if the QA stack failed and your tests pass, why blocking?
<sil2100> That makes sense
<didrocks> so it won't block anymore or set to manual publication (only for that QA stack with a special attribute)
<didrocks> - second annoucement is that the ack for "not building on powerpc" is not needed anymore
<didrocks> for at leastâ¦ 5 hours :p
<didrocks> so if you cross new packages/packages you are updating
<didrocks> you can revert to arch: any
<didrocks> instead of arch: i386 amd64 armhf
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> ;)
<mhr3> seb128, do you know if we'll have ubuntu-online-accounts on the phone?
<didrocks> (basically, it's looking at the destination if there was a build succeeded for that arch, and if not, it will ignore it for archs we don't care about)
<didrocks> mhr3: meeting :p
<robru> what about powerpc? it's been disabled?
<mhr3> didrocks, ask him on the meeting ;P
<didrocks> robru: no, it's just smarter to not block, as I told "we don't really care about that arch" ^
<didrocks> (in fact, it's a list of archs in case things are moving later on)
<robru> oh, ok. great
<didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: so, you can ignore my comment now on the "arch" part on the new packages
<didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: but you still have quite a lot to fix, isn't it? continuing this?
<sil2100> didrocks: yep, I'll probably work more on this tomorrow
<kenvandine> mhr3, yes
<sil2100> didrocks: everything that's pointed out in the e-mail ;)
<Mirv> yes
<didrocks> Mirv: sil2100: everything but "archs". Thanks!
<sil2100> Sorry about today, I tried to work but it's a bit _difficult_
<didrocks> no worry ;)
<didrocks> Mirv: anything to share on the SRU and Qt parts?
<mhr3> kenvandine, even with an app where you can actually set everything up?
<kenvandine> mhr3, for saucy we will :)
<seb128> mhr3, let's discuss on #ubuntu-touch, meeting ongoing
<sil2100> didrocks, Mirv: since we're talking about SRU's, bschaefer had a few fixes he'd like to release for precise for unity
<bschaefer> Hello
<sil2100> So I would be o/ for a new precise SRU once the old one (with steam fixes) gets out
<Mirv> didrocks: it all reads there (or the Qt document), but some patches are pending testability on saucy device, and saucy on device is a bit hard to test right at the moment. that relates to backports to 5.0.2
<didrocks> sil2100: I'll probably do it in my patch pilot shift that I delayed to that week
<Mirv> didrocks: raring SRU, I added a (slightly old fashioned) .dsc file link to the doc now, for the requested bamf with a fixed changelog
<didrocks> Mirv: excellent! yeah, I think we'll get the saucy touch image quite soon, that will make things easier :)
<Mirv> sil2100: yeah, I told didrocks the next SRU is about to knock on the door after this one gets in
<Mirv> didrocks: and in general we talked during last week that it's probably good to stick to 5.0.2 + backports for some time, and consider Qt 5.1 maybe around 5.1.1 or so
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> Mirv: awesome ;)
<didrocks> Mirv: I like that plan, sounds a safe option :)
<didrocks> ok, next bullet on the spreadsheet, cyphermox, while releasing touch to saucy, we did get some issues with indicators-clients and indicator-network, we added that to the spreadsheet, any other thing to share?
<Mirv> but as told before, 5.1 beta is available for saucy for people who absolutely require to test some new feature from there
 * Mirv is done speaking
<didrocks> thanks Mirv!
<didrocks> no cyphermox it seemsâ¦ let's move while he's catching up (but would be great to have everyone on the meeting so that we can keep it short)
<cyphermox> I'm there
<didrocks> cyphermox: ah, did you see my comment? would you have time to work on it?
<cyphermox> certainly not
<didrocks> what do you propose then?
<cyphermox> and it was working fine prior to that, I did build this manually without issues
<cyphermox> indicator-network shouldn't even make use of indicators-client
<didrocks> prior to what?
<cyphermox> prior to adding indicators-client to daily-release
<didrocks> cyphermox: even without indicators-client, indicator-network is making the unity panel segfaulting
<cyphermox> that's interesting
<cyphermox> is there a bug for it?
<cyphermox> tedg: ^
<didrocks> cyphermox: not that I know of
<cyphermox> ok then I'll give it a shot here and see what we can do
<didrocks> thanks :)
<tedg> cyphermox, I don't think so, but we weren't debugging it until the new libindicator landed as it has a bunch of changes there.
<cyphermox> right
<didrocks> probably a bad interaction, it was just surprising the day we tried to release :)
<cyphermox> meh
<cyphermox> indicator-network is nowehere near ready to be used
<tedg> No :-(
<cyphermox> (unfortunately)
<didrocks> tedg: cyphermox: we shouldn't daily release it yet then?
 * tedg wants HUD to be DONE
<cyphermox> didrocks: well, it's no loss
<tedg> didrocks, No reason not to.
<didrocks> it is, we can't test it :)
<cyphermox> i mean, then we can notice issues like the above and fix it
<didrocks> or can't test it doesn't break the default user experience :p
<cyphermox> next daily will fix this
<didrocks> like if anyone install it, he can't use unity
<didrocks> ok, if this is fixed, even if it's a few use, I'm happy :)
<cyphermox> that's a risk with any indicator, tbh
<didrocks> I know that well ;)
<cyphermox> ted will fix it :)
<didrocks> heh
<cyphermox> or I
<tedg> Well, it should get better.  No plugins.
<tedg> Plugins just suck for lots of hard to determine reasons.
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox, tedg, just reenable it whenever you can. I'll prereview for NEWing as well.
<cyphermox> well, this is getting off-topic, is there more to discuss?
<didrocks> ok, last topic (a middly big one)
<didrocks> now that we have everything's in, I guess it's time to sanity check what we don't daily release
<didrocks> so I would say:
<didrocks> 1. go over everything in head which will still have daily_release: False  (shouldn't be a lot)
<didrocks> 2. go over the ones in phablet/ and see if they need to stay there or not
<didrocks> I thought 3 people on that task would be great
<didrocks> as Mirv and sil2100 are already doing some new packaging and I'm doing the pre-NEWing, we can get on that, wdyt?
<didrocks> (and I'll add robru to the mix so that he can grow on packaging as well)
<didrocks> so that by the end of the cycle you 3 can have upload rights to a package set in ubuntu
<didrocks> does that make sense?
<robru> yeah! I will fix up the *-app packages today
<Mirv> makes sense
<didrocks> who wants to lead that effort? :)
<didrocks> (that will use emails for us 3 to contact robru ;))
<Mirv> I'm away after this week, so I'd rather not take that in my name at this point, unless only until end of this week
<didrocks> so maybe sil2100 or robru?
<didrocks> robru: interested in taking that ownership?
<robru> didrocks, ehhhhh... what is entailed by ownership?
<Mirv> robru: that you kick us if nothing happens
<didrocks> exactly :)
<kenvandine> :)
<robru> hmmmm, ok.
<didrocks> \o/
 * didrocks marks robru's name down :)
<didrocks> ok, any other question? anything else to mention?
<robru> didrocks, just 1on1 with you
<Mirv> just that since I got qtquicklayouts into PPA yesterday (a new module in Qt 5.1), I marked the 5.1 beta item now done and moved qtlocation to the 5.0.2/backports section
<Mirv> (qtlocation is not part of 5.1 but just a snapshot module at this point)
<didrocks> robru: yeah ;)
<didrocks> Mirv: do you want that in saucy?
<didrocks> or we wait for 5.1.1?
<Mirv> didrocks: definitely not, the 5.1 beta, it's a "PPA only" work item
<didrocks> (for both qtlocation and qtquicklayouts)
<didrocks> ok :)
<Mirv> qtlocation maybe, a newer snapshot, but would need fixing compiling and testing as the rest of the 5.0.2/backports/snapshots
<didrocks> ok, keep me posted if you need sponsoring
<Mirv> mzanetti promised to check what's going on in there
<Mirv> I will
<didrocks> nice work everyone! Keep the spreadsheet update please :) (I'll again move what's done tomorrow morning to the archive section)
<didrocks> have a good week
<sil2100> \o/
<kenvandine> will do
<Mirv> thanks all
<kenvandine> good night Mirv :)
<kenvandine> Mirv, and let me know when you look at qtfeedback
<Mirv> kenvandine: hehe, in an hour or two :)
<Mirv> kenvandine: will do
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> alesage, fginther: still looking at this notify-osd merge request?
<alesage> seb128, sorry just returning to :/ a few min pls
<seb128> alesage, no hurry, but if you could get it sorted today that would be good, so we can have the fix landing in saucy tomorrow morning
<alesage> seb128, can do, will update
<seb128> alesage, thanks
<seb128> brb, session restart to test intel fix for image corruption problems
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> yeah, image corruptions in firefox on my intel i5 are fixed with that git commit \o/
 * desrt loves how the media is reporting that the ps4 has "no drm"
<desrt> what the hell has gone wrong with the world?
<desrt> frog in hot water much?
<desrt> "let's turn DRM up to 11... that way, when we dial it back down to 10, people will say that it's perfect!"
<seb128> yeah...
<seb128> mterry, hey, how are you?
<mterry> seb128, hello!  Good, what's up?
<seb128> mterry, I've a quick g-c-c-unity question for you if you have a minute
<seb128> mterry, did you "clean" the code when you imported it as a new component?
<seb128> or fix some deprecations on the way?
<seb128> mterry, the color picker here uses GdKRGBA where all the upstream versions I can find use GdkColor, I'm wondering where that's coming from
<mterry> seb128, I don't recall, but I doubt it.  I try to do such things in a separate branch so that they don't get lost in the original import
<mterry> seb128, maybe I did
<seb128> ok
<seb128> bzr blame says it's there since r1
<mterry> seb128, what do you mean by upstream version?  Distro is upstream right?
<seb128> well, anyway, going back to the deprecated GdkColor since that's what libgnome-desktop use and the conversion breaks picking of solid colors
<mterry> Oh I guess you mean GNOME background panel
<mterry> seb128, OK, sounds good.  Sorry if I was responsible for some pain
<seb128> mterry, that code is an import from the old gnome-control-center code + distro patch right? I looked to the precise/quantal packages and didn't find any trace of rgba use in the upstream code or patches
<seb128> mterry, no worry, I was just trying to understand the history
<seb128> the api has
<seb128> "gtk_color_button_new_with_color has been deprecated since version 3.4 and should not be used in newly-written code. Use gtk_color_button_new_with_rgba() instead."
<seb128> so I guess somebody tried to be a good citizen
<seb128> it just doesn't play nicely with the gnome-desktop side which has not been ported
<seb128> mterry, no worry, I've a fix, I was just looking for a bit of background before submitting it
<seb128> mterry, thanks ;-)
 * Sweetshark quietly begins to sob -- which grows into a hysteric crying.
<Sweetshark> seb128: I cant testbuild LibreOffice 4.1 on the ppas as they always crap out on lack of memory. I could reduce the kind of LibreOffice even more (from a 'release' build more to a 'developer build'), but that kinda defeats the purpose (read: testing what I want to push to the repo as close as possible).
<Sweetshark> s/lack of memory/lack of storage/
 * Sweetshark mumbles "LibreOffice -- based on technology breaking your toolchain since 1985" ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, is your ppa a devirtualized one?
<seb128> I though those were using archive builders
 * seb128 has an air of deja vu
 * Sweetshark shakes an angry old man fist at feeble launchpad and reads gumpily starts reading http://wiki.debian.org/HowToSetupADebianRepository ...
<seb128> (I think there was a discussion previous cycle on how much buildd that would take)
<seb128> jbicha, hum, I'm not sure I agree with that push to kick uoa out
<seb128> that's sort of the border between distro identity and desktop one
<seb128> it's like trying to kick upstart out because GNOME prefers systemd
<Sweetshark> seb128: that limit in the ppa build is AFAIK restricted by the hardware (like real hardware in a rack) and there was "nothing to be done about it unless decommissioning those machines".
<seb128> Sweetshark, does it happen with archive builds as well?
<Sweetshark> seb128: I think the discussion was about virtualization of arm builders -- thats a different can of worms.
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks for the -intel upload
<Sweetshark> seb128: it didnt so far.
<tjaalton> seb128: yw
<seb128> Sweetshark, I don't think it is
<jbicha> seb128: other flavors aren't shipping UOA; you can't really say that UOA is Foundations
<seb128> Sweetshark, if you get devirtualized you are on archive builders, that includes arm ones
<seb128> jbicha, no other flavor is shipping shotwell?
<jbicha> this is just about the default, you can still use UOA on Ubuntu GNOME
<jbicha> you don't need UOA to publish photos online from Shotwell; (also Ubuntu Studio includes Shotwell)
<seb128> jbicha, well, those are two duplicated technologies and I would be in favor of kicking goa out in Ubuntu the same way we kick systemd init out
<jbicha> seb128: that's ridiculous
<seb128> why?
<seb128> that's not a difference in user experience
<seb128> it's a difference in technologies which provide a somewhat similar service
<jbicha> for one, nobody has cared to fix bug 1062449
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1062449 in gnome-documents (Ubuntu) "Please add UOA support for GNOME Documents" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062449
<seb128> well, rather than trying to kick uoa out of the required depends you could try to fix that one ;-)
<jbicha> I'm not really a programmer
<Sweetshark> seb128: Im not even building in the "libreoffice ppa" as that would be a pain for everyone (e.g. amd64 succeeding and i386 not and lots of broken deps abound -- but even barring such a scenario: am64 finishing first and i386 taking a few hours longer and lots of broken deps abound.) -- so I am building on ppa like this one https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-staging and copy to the end user visible ppa, if it is su
<seb128> sorry, that was not addressed specifically at you
<seb128> but yeah, I understand they are issues
<jbicha> shipping 2 webkits isn't that great either
<seb128> but still that seems a border line depends between distro identity and desktop identity
<seb128> we ship 2?
<jbicha> the qt and gtk versions
<seb128> Sweetshark, you cut at "if it is su"
<seb128> Sweetshark, but yeah, agreed, you should ask for a non-virtual ppa maybe for your builds
<Sweetshark> if it is successfully finished there (with copying binaries) ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, though seems like you got pushback from the buildds team last time because of the limited resources
<seb128> jbicha, right, the security team is looking at addressing the duplicated webkit
<jbicha> there's a few minor issues with yanking out UOA for Ubuntu GNOME (the broken Publish feature in Shotwell and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/701903)
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 701903 in UOA "If built with --enable-ubuntu-online-accounts, accounts dialog always opens the UOA one" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<jbicha> but generally speaking, GOA meets our user's needs and UOA isn't quite there yet
<Sweetshark> seb128: so essentially my libreoffice-ppas have their own private "-proposed" ;)
<seb128> jbicha, the webkit plan from vUDS was to have our own webkit wrapping and port main to that (e.g branch from webkit master, add our binding, maintain api compat for that and security)
<jbicha> it's not too hard to switch back to UOA if the balance changes
<seb128> jbicha, "our" being for the GNOME edition I guess ... fair enough, as long as goa doesn't get into the default unity install
<seb128> jbicha, but it's getting trickier when e.g shotwell doesn't put uoa integration in a separate file
<jbicha> seb128: yeah, this work is just creating alternate dependencies which Ubuntu GNOME can opt into
<jbicha> seb128: UOA was never merged upstream into Shotwell so that's an oversight in the Ubuntu patch
<seb128> it's not an oversight
<seb128> and we might get extra uoa integration this way in the futur
<seb128> GNOME refuses to have build-time options for things that are not part of GNOME
<seb128> I'm not sure why we should
<seb128> that's why I'm saying that is border desktop-distro line
<seb128> imho the online account provider is part of the distro, like the init system
<seb128> and you shouldn't get to swap those
<seb128> it's making everybody's life harder
<jbicha> on the other hand, it's a bit much to be requiring GNOME apps to depend on the Qt stack
<seb128> it's only a lib...
<seb128> but yeah, I get your point
<seb128> I guess you don't have ubuntuone either on the GNOME edition then?
<jbicha> too bad it's not just a few MB we're talking about
<jbicha> we have some Ubuntu One libraries but not the GUI
<seb128> well, good luck fighting against qt depends in the futur
<seb128> those are not going to decrease
<jbicha> I'm not opposed to having Ubuntu One included but...the design... and the failure to fix UI bugs I reported as soon as it landed by default in Ubuntu
<seb128> yeah, I was not arguing about U1
<seb128> but Qt is main part of where Ubuntu is going
<seb128> so I guess that's going to get harder over time to kick it out
<jbicha> isn't it more likely that Ubuntu will just start replacing GNOME apps with your new mobile-capable apps?
<seb128> so are long run battles and I'm not sure they are worth it
<seb128> sure
<seb128> but it means you stop getting stuff like update-manager
<seb128> software-center
<seb128> ubuntuone
<seb128> software-properties
<jbicha> so the divergence might help
<seb128> if you don't care about all the Ubuntu tools sure
<seb128> but you might wonder then why you use Ubuntu
<desrt> hi guys.  what's up?
<jbicha> Ubuntu is about more than just Unity and I'm not sure that Unity is all that much more popular than GNOME Shell is
<seb128> I'm not speaking about unity
<seb128> I never argued about the desktop choice
<jbicha> things get worse for Ubuntu if GNOME developers stop caring about Ubuntu
<seb128> just about the difficulty about swapping underlining technologies
<seb128> difficulty of*
<seb128> desrt, hey, nothing interested, you can ignore that channel for the rest of the day ;-)
<jbicha> we'll re-assess things as we go along, UG 12.10 used gnome-packagekit for instance; and we've always shipped all that extra Qt stuff until now and maybe we will again if the features we need are there
<jbicha> I don't think the GNOME Software guys care about integrating support for installing proprietary apps which makes USC look pretty attractive
<desrt> jbicha: i think seb has some pretty good points...
<desrt> (at least the canonical part of) ubuntu has come to the rather logical conclusion that unity is the only ubuntu that's worth putting substantial effort into... it's hard to argue against that conclusion, considering how reasonable it is...
<desrt> going forward i seriously doubt that there is going to be a lot of time spent on considerations for making the lower levels of ubuntu work particularly well for non-unity cases
<desrt> i don't think there will be any active blocking... but you're going to be left with a heavier and heavier bag to carry as time goes on
<walters> personally i've always found it surprising that Ubuntu hasn't more aggressively referred people who wanted "something else" to Debian
<desrt> walters: or fedora? ;)
<seb128> well, there is a demand for some "GNOME experience on Ubuntu"
<seb128> but imho wanting to clean that out of any "Ubuntu" is a mistake
<desrt> seb128: it's an interesting point though... what does that even mean anymore?
<seb128> if you go that far you can as well use another distro
<desrt> if the software centre is taken away, for example... what part of ubuntu are we still benefiting from?
<seb128> desrt, don't ask me, I support a gnome-shell UI on Ubuntu (which means with Ubuntu integration included)
<seb128> I'm not sure what's the point of trying to get a version without the Ubuntu integration
<jbicha> seb128: we're not trying to clean UG of Ubuntu; UG is a hybrid - I believe we would have been the only other desktop flavor to include Ubuntu One if it didn't look so out of place)
<desrt> seb128: i think the point is that a lot of the features that jbicha is trying to 'get rid of' are kinda half-baked
<desrt> seb128: and (importantly) gnome purists tolerate half-baked features from upstream gnome, but get upset when it's some canonical tech that's ruining their day
<seb128> desrt, I don't think "gnome-contacts doesn't support uoa" is a reason to call uoa "half-baked"
<seb128> desrt, read aseigo posts on http://blog.yorba.org/jim/2013/02/the-garden-of-the-forking-paths.html
<seb128> the meego online stack is used by meego/kde/ubuntu/...
<desrt> i try to avoid reading aseigo whenever possible :)
<jbicha> users complain about the confusing double Online Accounts; users complained about not including GNOME Documents; they aren't complaining yet about not enough integration into Unity
<seb128> right
<seb128> but "gnome-contacts doesn't support uoa" doesn't mean that uoa is half baked
<seb128> I object with the statement ;-)
<seb128> I understand why it is this way though
<desrt> seb128: uoa being included in gnomebuntu, however, _is_ very half-baked
<seb128> right
<desrt> (i don't feel like debating the other point... i have problems with both uoa and goa)
<seb128> so gnomebuntu could try to fix it ;-)
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> it's a sucking situation
<seb128> but it's not as easy as "ubuntu provided an half baked solution again"
<desrt> well, honestly that's sort of what we do
<desrt> the difference is that we seem to get more flack for it than everyone else who is doing the same
<seb128> I disagree with that
<seb128> we don't get flack from anyone for uoa
<desrt> well
<desrt> let me give you some flack, then :)
<seb128> out of GNOME users on Ubuntu because we didn't port GNOME apps to it
<seb128> you could give some flacks to GNOME because they don't support uoa the same way
<desrt> we're getting dangerously close to "which came first and who failed to talk to whom" again
<seb128> sure
<seb128> meego was there first
<seb128> and that's what we use
<seb128> it was discussed on d-d-l before goa started
<seb128> while I usually agree with you, I don't think that one is an in the same case as most mistakes
 * desrt honestly hates all of these techs
<seb128> well, anyway, arguing over that is not going to resolve the issues
<seb128> in an ideal world everybody would use the same techs
<seb128> but we are not sure
<seb128> shrugh
<seb128> but we are not *there*
<seb128> so good luck to the GNOME edition guys to patch out Ubuntu bits is the best I can say...
<desrt> seb128: and, apparently, to question their sanity for attempting to do so...
<desrt> (which is a pretty legitimate concern...)
<jbicha> desrt has long thought I was crazy for doing the Ubuntu GNOME thing :)
<seb128> desrt, well, I don't "question their sanity", I just warn them it's an uphill battle
<seb128> if they are wanting to fight it, good for them
<seb128> I would have more of a mixed approach  to the issue
<seb128> but that's me ;-)
<desrt> seb128: you'll be happier if you eat ice cream
<seb128> hum, ice cream
<seb128> where is larsu?
<desrt> see?  it's working already
<desrt> he's in the biomed building at U of T
<seb128> larsu, alter! ice cream!!!
<larsu> ICE CREAM!
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> larsu: loblaws!!
<larsu> desrt: now?
<seb128> what is "loblaws"?
<desrt> we forgot last night :(
<larsu> (yes, I'd be up for that)
<seb128> ignore that, I'm not sure I want to know :p
 * seb128 prefers to stay on the ice cream line
<larsu> seb128: a supermarket with an especially awesome ice cream vendor inside
<seb128> oohhh
<larsu> seb128: just two words: Mango Sorbet.
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> larsu, you guys should go!
<larsu> do I need to read any scrollback?
 * desrt is approx 1 hr. away
<seb128> larsu, no
<desrt> larsu: just the usual debate over gnome vs. ubuntu
<larsu> seb128: too far, and I'm in the middle of the sound widget stuff (oh man that code is ... bad)
<seb128> larsu, boring argument on uoa vs goa
<desrt> until i forcefully changed the topic to icecream
<desrt> larsu: too far?!?
<larsu> good choice.
<desrt> i mean... i know it's the other side of yonge street and stuff....
<seb128> larsu, complaining about the code? get some notify-osd hacking... ;-)
<desrt> but like, 15 minutes walk?
<larsu> desrt: ya, like 10 minutes by foot
<larsu> seb128: hehe
<larsu> seb128: this is slightly better, but only slightly
<seb128> larsu, yeah, Conor was new to Gworld as well
 * desrt ponders loblaws
<larsu> desrt: if you go we'll come
<desrt> larsu: you're recommending i don't see this movie tonight, right?
<larsu> desrt: have you seen the other two
<desrt> no
<larsu> then: definitely not
<larsu> seb128: attente is trying to find the source package that sets a particular dconf key. Do you know of any way?`?
<desrt> larsu: guess that the dconf path will correspond roughly to the gsettings schema name and that the schema file is named in the standard way
<desrt> apply apt-file
<larsu> desrt: thanks.
<seb128> larsu, what key?
<seb128> oh you mean code wise
<seb128> I though you meant "what package is setting that default"
<attente> what if the schema is just in gsettings-desktop-schemas
<desrt> attente: rdepends!!!!!
<seb128> what key is that?
<desrt> attente: good luck :)
<larsu> desrt: you're missing a 1 there
<larsu> desrt: rdepends!!!!!!!!1
<seb128> we set most of the distro defaults in "ubuntu-settings"
<seb128> that's the "override of defaults values over upstream for Ubuntu"
<attente> seb128, switch-input-source in org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.media-keys
<larsu> sound like gnome-settings-daemon to me...
<seb128> but otherwise just grep for the key in /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/
<seb128> well if that's a default
<seb128> if it's runtime, grep the archive
<desrt> seb128: do we have source archive grep?
<attente> i know g-c-c modifies it, i'm wondering what's reading it
<seb128> desrt, no :-(
<seb128> desrt, we have scripts doing it that people can run in the datacenter though
<jbicha> desrt: but dpkg -S *filename* will at least tell you what package provides a file
<desrt> jbicha: only if it's installed...
<desrt> jbicha: apt-file is the general case of this
<jbicha> yeah but apt-file isn't installed by default
<larsu> desrt: are you on your way yet? :P
<jbicha> Laney: libcamel's rdepends still build so e-d-s is ready for upload when you are
<Laney> jbicha: just waits for a solution on the desktop file thing; feel free to solve that in packaging if you want
<Laney> at least from my pov
<Laney> (upstreamable patch preferable of course)
<TheMuso> wwww/c
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-12
<Guest27271> hi all what is lite updating for UBUNTU
<jbicha_> desrt: can you help fix https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/gnome-control-center/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/revert_git_dont_hide_zoom.patch ?
<jbicha_> I'd like to hide the zoom options from Unity or GNOME Fallback but Unity registers itself on org.gnome.Shell
<darkxst> jbicha_, just use XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP?
<jbicha_> maybe, XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP by itself doesn't currently distinguish between Shell & Fallback
<darkxst> jbicha, or use dbus to check for the actual zoom interface
<desrt> jbicha: uh.  unity bug?
<jbicha> darkxst: thanks, let me try that
<desrt> unity should absolutely not be taking org.gnome.shell
<darkxst> desrt, I think compiz is to blame
<desrt> ...as with all the best 'features' of unity :)
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/UnityCore/GnomeSessionManager.cpp#L31
<jbicha> Trevinho: ^
<jbicha> darkxst: that works
<didrocks> robru: hey! Thanks for the email :) FYI, there was a merge tonight with an additional one (for daily_release: False): http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/trunk/revision/419
<robru> didrocks, heh, ok
<pitti> Good morning
<robru> pitti, good morning!
<didrocks> bonjour pitti, comment Ã§a va?
<pitti> hey robru, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! je vais bien, merci ! et toi ?
<didrocks> trÃ¨s bien! soleil et temps agrÃ©able ici :)
<robru> pitti, much better finally... and you? ;-)
<pitti> je suis en retard aujourd'hui
<pitti> nous sommes allÃ©s Ã  un concert d'hier soir
<pitti> robru: a bit tired still, but fine; what happened to you?
<didrocks> pitti: quel type de concert?
<pitti> didrocks: il pleut Ã  nouveau ici :/
<didrocks> argh :/
<robru> pitti, emergency appendectomey last week. so i am slightly lighter now ;-)
<pitti> didrocks: Die Toten Hosen
<pitti> robru: ouch
<didrocks> robru: it was just a question of weight (and taking an extra week of holidays), admit it! :-)
<didrocks> robru: kidding, welcome back again, happy to see that you feel better :)
<robru> didrocks, no, it was a real medical issue, I swear!
<robru> didrocks, next time I see you I will show you the scars ;-)
<didrocks> I trust you on this. I don't want to imagine how painful this can be :/
<didrocks> ahah
<robru> didrocks, oddly the recovery was more painful than the surgery itself. at the hospital you get really nice drugs, but when you get home you just get crappy drugs ;-)
<didrocks> ohâ¦ I hoped you got some distraction like reading/video games/â¦ to forget about the pain if the medecines are not good enough :/
<robru> didrocks, oh yeah, it was a week of distractions... I bought myself a ps3 ;-)
<didrocks> ahah, should be cheaper with the ps4 incoming :)
<robru> yeah, that's what I was hoping for ;-)
<didrocks> what games did you play with?
<robru> didrocks, I started playing GTA4 for the first time ever, dunno why it took me so long but I've been wanting to play it since forever. Also I tried out Little Big Planet but it seemed more childish than I was expecting.
<didrocks> ahâ¦ GTA4. Played since the 1 and loving the series :)
<didrocks> little big planet -> never played more than the demo
<robru> didrocks, yeah, I'm a huge fan of the series. I played San Andreas to 100% completion *twice*
<didrocks> waow, I just played once at each until the end of the main story (but doing a lot of bonuses) :)
<didrocks> the only thing I don't really compete on is the extra quests like car races or stealing X numbers of carsâ¦
<robru> didrocks, yeah, I am totally OCD about finding every hidden package and doing every side mission. ;-)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> you are worse than I!
<robru> I'm so bad ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<didrocks> robru: I guess if you really like the story side of GTA, you will love this one until the end
<robru> didrocks, yeah, the story seems good so far. nice and gritty. I'm sad that they took away bicycles though!
<didrocks> ahah, me as well, but it seems to be back on GTA5 \o/
 * didrocks can't wait
<robru> sweeeeet
<robru> I have to finish Gta4 before I can start 5 ;-)
<didrocks> heh, indeed! and you have 2 other stories (which were DLC at first)
<didrocks> one with bikers, and the other around night clubs
<robru> didrocks, oh yeah? does it change the story or should I finish the stock version first?
<didrocks> robru: finish the stock version first, those 2 are extra stories with other people, and you can cross the main story at some missions. So it's fun to see the same events from some other point of views
<robru> oh, sweet! can't wait for that!
<robru> didrocks, ok, I need to play for an hour before bed. g'night ;-)
<didrocks> robru: enjoy :)
<Mirv> GTA5 will arrive just on time, I managed to play through both of the gta4 extra episodes some time ago
<didrocks> Mirv: loved them as well! especially the story on night clubs
<Sweetshark> moin!
<didrocks> hey Sweetshark!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut
<mlankhorst> bonjour
<mlankhorst> ca va
<seb128> mlankhorst, salut, Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<mlankhorst> je suis ok
 * mlankhorst watches toes of all the french in here curl up!
<Sweetshark> mlankhorst: indeed. Next time you will need to chant the Marseillaise for joining the channel. from memory.
<mlankhorst> french don't know what pain is.. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain
<mlankhorst> so I can't have hurt them
<mlankhorst> :X
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> Laney, good morning ;-)
<Laney> oho, I see the thread!
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> haha
<seb128> jasoncwarner targetted -desktpp and not -devel list though
<seb128> that will limit the participants
<Laney> true
<Laney> i'm sure the word will get out though
<seb128> that's likely indeed
<seb128> hum
<seb128> what is it with things that segfault when you copy over a .so they are using
<seb128> when that doesn't happen when the same .so is overwritten by a package
<seb128> like I never have xorg segfaulting when updating -intel, but copying the .so with cp made it unhappy
<seb128> that happened with compiz, gtk and other stuff in the past
<seb128> oh, well, I needed to restart xorg to test the new driver anyway
<Laney> it probably unlinks and then puts a new file in
<Laney> it->dpkg
<Laney> rather than updating it inplace
<seb128> Laney, why is that better? ;-)
<seb128> does it force the loader to refresh the table pointing to the shared objects?
<Laney> if it's mmaped into a process then updating it in place will update the copy the program is using
<seb128> oh, that's a good point
<Laney> but if you remove it then the new file will have a new inode which doesn't affect the already loaded copies
<seb128> that makes sense
<seb128> so next time rm + cp ;-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> np
<Mirv> sil2100: any idea where would I find that cmake's libexec variable from?
<seb128> didrocks, btw, with the crazy landing week you missed your pilot shift ... any way you catch back a bit on that by reviewing the compiz and unity MR from Mirv that are sitting on versions for a while? ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, the oneconf one is still there as well :p
<didrocks>  seb128: that's what we discussed yesterday during the meeting
<didrocks> so yeah, I'll probably do my shift this afternoon or tomorrow morning
<seb128> didrocks, ah, sorry, IRC was in ping mode I didn't read everything in your half of the meeting
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<sil2100> Mirv: hm, never did that before, but I have some ideas, give me a moment
<sil2100> Mirv: check GNUInstallDirs.cmake from the cmake modules
<sil2100> Mirv: there is a variable CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBDIR
<sil2100> Mirv: and CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBEXECDIR
<sil2100> (since I pasted the wrong thing)
<Mirv> sil2100: thanks.. I'll try the last one, thanks for that pointer (GNUInstallDirs.cmake)!
<Sweetshark> seb128: any quick feedback on the "incompleteinternals" ideas?
<seb128> Sweetshark, did you see my email reply?
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm not sure that cleaning of the source package is going to give you that much extra space
<seb128> I would assume that it's the builddir and the build objects that take 95% of the space
 * Sweetshark looks for reply ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, rene already replied to my reply
<seb128> $ cd src && du -hs
<seb128> 242M	.
<seb128> that's not a difference there that is going to make ppa builders happy
<seb128> how much is a build using?
<sil2100> Mirv: I'll be fixing address-book-service in the meantime
<Sweetshark> seb128: checking my last local build for estimates
<Sweetshark> seb128: 20G workdir/, 4.3G debian/, 4.1G solver, 160M solver/unxlngx6.pro/installation/, 27G .
<seb128> Sweetshark, do you know what is the ppa builder disk space limitation?
<Sweetshark> seb128: no. I heard something about a 70GB disc limit, put I dont know how that boils down to partitions.
<seb128> so you are saying a lo build takes under 30G and you that's enough over what the ppa has in free space?
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, this is the size of the tree after the build -- there might be additional peak usage inbetween (e.g. using /tmp etc.)
<Sweetshark> well, skipping the tests likely wont help much (see the installation taking only 160MB as we symlink to the other dir wherever possible). but the builds choke exactly there now ...
<seb128> infinity, hey, do you know about ppa builders and available space there? how do we get ones that have enough disk to build libreoffice? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: some analysis on the example of the writer lib: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5757585/
<seb128> Sweetshark, I would like to hear back from infinity there, having 50G of disk space on a buildder doesn't seem the end of the world nowadays...
<didrocks> simple way to crash gedit: Ctrl + h, replace \n by anything :p
<seb128> didrocks, wfm
<seb128> didrocks, replaced \n by a space
<didrocks> seb128: hum I replaced with nothing, let me see on another file
<Sweetshark> seb128: Ah! I think I know why we run out of space there. When creating the installation for the subsequenttest, we first create a full copy and then run the ./solenv/bin/linkoo script, which replaces copies with symlinks. So during that time, we indeed have two copies of the libs around and one can assume that solver/unxlngx6.pro/installation/ is ~around the size of solver/unxlngx6.pro/lib bigger (that is 3.8GB).
<seb128> didrocks, replaced by nothing works fine (I just created a new document and typed random chars and enter a few time to test)
<didrocks> hum, still crashing here, but just on that file
<Sweetshark> seb128: so for running the subsequentchecks we temporarily increase the build tree from 27GB to something in the 31-32GB range and then go back to 27GB ...
<didrocks> I'll have a look at the stacktrace
<seb128> Sweetshark, that still seems a reasonable disk space to today's standard
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, if the file is not private just ubuntu-bug and add the file to the bug?
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep.
<Sweetshark> seb128: Which is why I was weeping like a willow yesterday ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: note that LibreOffice build depending on ~1/3 of main of course also has an impact.
<mlankhorst> seb128: I noticed the background drawing is weird on my nvd7 in true optimus mode, it draws only a 1024x768 rectangle, which is the initial resolution when I have no displays attached. When I light up the internal lcd the background still draws only the top 1024x768, even though my mouse can move over the entire screen.. any idea why?
<seb128> mlankhorst, what is drawing the background for you? nautilus?
<mlankhorst> yeah
<mlankhorst> restarting it helps, but still..
<seb128> not sure, I didn't see any bug about that and things work fine here when docking/undocking/adding monitors
<mlankhorst> the internal screen is connected to the intel, but I was setting nouveau up in true optimus mode (toying around with an experimental patch)
<seb128> it needs debugging, I think nautilus just gets the screen infos from gdk
<Sweetshark> seb128: I think I will just go full berserk on this one for now and disable running the tests on ppa builds ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, that's suboptimal but until we hear from the buildds guy I guess that's an option, I will ask on #ubuntu-release
<Sweetshark> seb128: thanks
<didrocks> Mirv: sil2100: sorry, I was maybe unclear, but libexec is /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/<app_name> or /usr/lib/<appname> (rather the first one for multi-arching). There should be no "libexec" in the path
<didrocks> what does CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBEXECDIR points to?
<sil2100> didrocks: it points to /usr/libexec
<sil2100> didrocks: that's why we're using CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBEXECDIR but then override it in debian/rules
<mlankhorst> didrocks: I thought the former was for libs, latter if a program in *bin required helper programs
<didrocks> mlankhorst: for instance, we have /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm/ for the helpers
<didrocks> mlankhorst: no "libexec" in path
<mlankhorst> yeah
<sil2100> didrocks: I think this should be changed in the GNU cmake module file for ubuntu
<didrocks> sil2100: agreed, anyway, we need to override it for multiarching :)
<sil2100> didrocks: so that CMAKE_INSTALL_LIBEXECDIR returns /usr/lib/<appname> instead of the default /usr/libexec
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK, for all projects that are affected?
<sil2100> didrocks: or only dbus-cpp should be multiarched?
<sil2100> Mirv: ^
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, let's try to put everything that can/needs to be multiarched set up that way
<didrocks> at least for new components
<didrocks> then, we'll go over older ones :)
<sil2100> Mirv: ok, can you multiarch dbus-cpp? I'll do the same for address-book-service then
 * didrocks sees a lot of stacks in manual publication or failures, not sure if people wait on me or dealt with them already
<sil2100> didrocks: I can deal with that :D But why so many manual publishingz?!
<didrocks> sil2100: well, looking at it will tell you :)
<didrocks> sil2100: not sure how we can have everyone looking at it first time in their morning
<didrocks> for instance, the misc stack is in manual publishing mode for 2 days, despite my ping to cyphermox yesterday (and reviewing a stack when being in manual publish mode takes no more than 5 minutes :/)
<didrocks> not sure what's wrongâ¦
<sil2100> I was usually doing that in the morning, somehow got out of sync lately though! I promise to resume that activity - I see some HUD issues though
<sil2100> hm, funny
<sil2100> didrocks: after I browse through the changes, you mind if I publish apps, media, misc and platform? (not sure about qa?)
<didrocks> sil2100: remember if there are packaging changes, just ping me for a double review (it's a kind of sponsoring as the deal is that only people with upload rights should do that manual publication)
<sil2100> didrocks: ACK
<sil2100> didrocks: a noob question - is there an easy way of checking all the diffs in a stack?
<Mirv> didrocks / sil2100: ok, will fix, now to lunch
<didrocks> sil2100: not really, it's package per package if there is a packaging diff, making an intelligent diff (basically packaging changes + build system changes)
<didrocks> sil2100: you do see them in the artefacts, right?
<sil2100> didrocks: artefacts in which job should I see?
<sil2100> Since normally I browsed LP :|
<didrocks> oh
<didrocks> no, it's way easier
<didrocks> sil2100: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Media/job/cu2d-media-head-3.0publish/ for instance
<sil2100> I looked at the prepare jobs but hm, no useful artefacts
<didrocks> if you click on the publish job
<didrocks> you have publisher.xml
<sil2100> Ah
<didrocks> for the reason of the manual publishing
<didrocks> and you have the .diff for each package with packaging change
<sil2100> hm, why didn't I see that when I checked the publish job just a moment ago? I think I'm getting blind
<sil2100> Thanks
<didrocks> sil2100: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Platform/job/cu2d-qa-head-3.0publish/
<didrocks> for the qa with multiples packaging change
<didrocks> for instance
<didrocks> sil2100: so, you always have the reason in the xml
<didrocks> and if packaging changes, they are archived
<sil2100> didrocks: ah, I know why I didn't see that
<didrocks> ah?
<sil2100> didrocks: for instance http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/16/ has no .diff, does it mean there was simply no new commits, right?
<Sweetshark> seb128: btw running "du -sh /" in my pbuilder gives 103G after the builder (plus the at least ~4GB) that we need more temporarily as discussed
<didrocks> Sweetshark: no, it means no packaging change :)
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> sil2100: ^
<sil2100> ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: look at the publisher.xml for the reason: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/16/artifact/publisher.xml
<didrocks> (view source of the xml if you want the line breaks)
<seb128> Sweetshark, :-(
<didrocks> sil2100: that's why I told that manual publishing review shouldn't take more than 5 minutes per stack ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, #ubuntu-releases says there is not a lot they can do for the ppa builders, there are still quite some old machines in the pool and until those are replaced/upgraded you will have builds dispatched on those
<sil2100> Now that makes sense ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: and again, the diff is "smart": it just shows packaging diff + all related build tools (autotools, cmake, qmakeâ¦) so that you have enough context to see why the packaging eventually changed
<didrocks> sil2100: so, for media, you can see that you have packaging change and stack dependencies failing: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Media/job/cu2d-media-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/publisher.xml
<didrocks> (or stacks in manual publishing mode)
<seb128> Sweetshark, can you join #ubuntu-release?
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, checked the misc stack diff, the changes look sane, could you ACK?
<didrocks> sil2100: packaging diff looks good to me, please publish :)
<sil2100> didrocks: no packaging changes for the apps stack, and it looks good, so publishing
<didrocks> great!
<didrocks> sil2100: we assume there is no ABI break in the dep stack which we can't publish I guess ;)
<didrocks> (think in case of a doubt to ask upstream)
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: all looks ok, media stack seems ok as well - the deps everywhere are only HUD and platform usually, which are OK (HUD being 'fails-to-build' right now though)
<sil2100> No ABI break or anything like that
<sil2100> didrocks: could you take a look at media? The diff looks sane, so I'd like to publish that
<pitti> desrt: do you happen to know what became of that "user D-BUS" (as opposed to session and system bus)?
<pitti> desrt: is that still actually relevant?
<sil2100> didrocks: platform looks ok as well packaging-wise, can I publish? No dep-problems
 * sil2100 waits ready with a -P ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: piing ;p Checked the QA stack as well, looking good so far!
<sil2100> didrocks: waiting for a green light on: media, platform and qa!
 * sil2100 needs to go to lunch now
<sil2100> I'll publish when I'm back then
<didrocks> sil2100: media -> OK, platform -> OK, qa -> OK :)
<didrocks> sil2100: please do publish when you are back :)
<Mirv> didrocks (and sil2100): hmm, dbus-cpp still - could I separate the example binaries into a multi-arch package and have the include files in architecture:all package instead?
<didrocks> Mirv: that sounds a good  plan to me (so the arch:all will be multiarch: foreign)
<Mirv> yes, multi-arch same for the binaries and foreign for the arch:all.
<Mirv> doing
<didrocks> Mirv: sorry for being silly, but if you can point me on the spreasheet again for compiz/unity precise, that would be awesome! :)
<Mirv> didrocks: there you go!
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> mfisch: hey, on bug #1031449, I guess you meant precise? (I declined raring as it's fixed as per commit in it, set fix released for saucy and opened the precise task)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1031449 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Precise) "rhythmbox leaking memory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031449
<didrocks> cyphermox: larsu: do you have anytime for https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/indicator-datetime/days-months/+merge/159214?
 * didrocks needs to find a pidgin's user
<didrocks> oh a seb128!
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, there is a new patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pidgin-libnotify/+bug/1175537
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1175537 in pidgin-libnotify (Ubuntu) "Stuck notifications (unable to clear them)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: maybe the third time will be the right one :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, let's see ;-)
<larsu> didrocks: sigh, not that again :-/
<didrocks> larsu: good morning! :-)
<larsu> didrocks: hey, how are you doing?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! yourself?
<didrocks> sun is back in France it seems \o/
<larsu> very good thank :)
 * ogra_ thought they are oracle now ... 
<didrocks> seb128: it seems you are quite opposed to the fix for bug #1027086 (I agree with you), should I just remove the sponsor subcriber to remove from the list?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1027086 in vino (Ubuntu Precise) "incorrect schema setting used for authentication-methods in vino server" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1027086
<larsu> didrocks: except that you're destroying my morning with making remember that bug... :P
<didrocks> ogra_: rohhhh
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> larsu: success \o/
<didrocks> (j/k)
<larsu> haha
<seb128> didrocks, I've no strong opinion either way, if you think the fix is fine sponsor it, otherwise yes just unsubscribe sponsors please
<seb128> didrocks, ritz seems to argue that the fix is what upstream is doing as well
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm still unsure if it worths it for precise
<didrocks> let's see once ritz is back, unsuscribing for now
<asac> was in a HO and suddenly MIC stopped
<seb128> didrocks, seems like some customer cares
<asac> [10558.761127] traps: unity-panel-ser[2300] general protection ip:7f0e04f4b986 sp:7fff8e254370 error:0 in libsoundmenu.so[7f0e04f42000+14000]
<asac> any idea what i have to restart to get away without reboot>?
<larsu> didrocks: I'll ping charles about this merge, it's his code and I'll let him make the decision
<seb128> asac, not sure, the indicator shouldn't break the device, maybe that's lower in the stack that the bug happened, e.g pulseaudio
<didrocks> larsu: thanks!
<didrocks> asac: most of the time, I kill the HO plugin and pulseaudio
<didrocks> then, opening the HO tab and it's working
<ritz> didrocks hi
<didrocks> hey ritz ;)
<ritz> didrocks  users would find this less stressful
<asac> hmm... let me see net call
<asac> thx seb128 didrocks
<asac> next call
<didrocks> the HO man :)
<ritz> for vino/dconf key
<didrocks> ritz: well, dconf-editor isn't something people should really rely on if they get stressed :) I feel then the warning in vino more annoying that the bug itself
<ritz__> one will not see any warning until unless the wrong value is keyed in
<ritz__> in which case, vino would ignore this
<ritz__> as would most gnome apps
<ritz__> didrocks , hmm, I assume we would treat this as a bug in all other apps then ?
<ritz__> or we need to "fix" this warning
<didrocks> ritz__: right, I think this is what seb128 asked as well
<ritz__> hmmm
<seb128> didrocks, ritz__: well, looking in dconf-editor most apps don't restrict the choice of values, so I guess it's ok to let a string and warn if the value is wrong, in practice only power users go tweak the value directly...
<ritz> seb128 agreed. the issue being, this was a bug with vino where choices was listed for dconf key, when it aint supposed to be
<ritz> and this allows admins ( who use dconf editor) to work
<Laney> can someone check if they can add a new Google account in UOA?
<Laney> I get Error:invalid_request
<Laney> Invalid response_type: code%26access_type%3Doffline%26approval_prompt%3Dforce
<ritz> in saucy ?
<Laney> yeah
<ritz> yup
<ritz> fails for me to
<Laney> ta
<Laney> kenvandine: ^ know anything about this?
<ritz> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14876204/error-invalid-client-when-following-five-minute-quick-start-for-php
<ritz> issue on server side ?
<desrt> pitti: why do you want it? :)
<pitti> desrt: I don't, but zyga was asking about it in #u-devel, so I'm forwarding here as you aren't there
<kenvandine> Laney, yes... that should be fixed now
<kenvandine> Laney, that was why i added that patch to eds
<kenvandine> Laney, the service file that eds provided was adding that... my worked last week ...
<kenvandine> Laney, i can still add a google account
<kenvandine> laney grep Resp /usr/share/accounts/services/*
<didrocks> sil2100: back? all published? :)
<sil2100> didrocks: yep!
<sil2100> :)
<sil2100> didrocks: I'm checking the webcreds stack now though
<didrocks> excellent :)
<sil2100> Since that one was left
<didrocks> maybe kenvandine can help?
<sil2100> I think it's fine, the diff looks good
<didrocks> ok :)
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebCreds/job/cu2d-webcred-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_account-plugins_0.11daily13.06.12-0ubuntu1.diff <- could you ACK :) ?
<didrocks> sil2100: sounds good to me
<didrocks> sil2100: so then, it's on the red side again? (unity/hud/indicators)
<sil2100> HUD, indicators, unity and webapps - HUD fails to build, waiting for Wellark or tedg, I see tedg is here so I'll poke him now
<sil2100> The rest I shall check check
<didrocks> and check? ;)
<kenvandine> sil2100, yup
<kenvandine> sil2100, i am publishing it now
<sil2100> kenvandine: publishing webcreds?
<sil2100> Ok ;)
<sil2100> tedg: boing
 * tedg puts on his spring-proof suit
<sil2100> tedg: a hud test is failing, oh noes! It seems like it's bamf related, since armhf passes
<tedg> sil2100, The ones from yesterday?  those seemed like BAMF to me.  At least it's the one throwing up error messages.
<sil2100> tedg: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142214118/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-amd64.hud_13.10.1daily13.06.12-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sil2100> tedg: actually, this time it's failing to build, as there's a unit test failing as well
<sil2100> tedg: test-application-list
<tedg> Hmm, I started getting that error on another branch last night.
<tedg> Bother.
<tedg> At least that confirms it's a saucy issue and not my branch.
<sil2100> Maybe there are some changes in bamf lately?
<tedg> sil2100, Yes, it's basically rewritten with the migration to gdbus
<sil2100> tedg: will you take a look? Give me a sign once this is resolved and I will re-run the stack then ;)
<sil2100> tedg: would be nice to have a HUD release soon, since a lot of stuff has been changing lately
<sil2100> tedg: hud and unity are rather tightly bound so we can't release one without the other
<tedg> sil2100, Sure, but I think this is only an issue with the tests.  I don't think it'll fix the stack issues you saw yesterday.
<tedg> sil2100, Not really... I mean they only share one API that hasn't changed in over a year.
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5758253/
<seb128> Laney, that's a small patch for your background panel (the personal category works with ubuntu-system-settings trunk)
<seb128> Laney, I've also dropped the entry since according to the design that panel is an icon in the grid
<sil2100> attente: ping
<attente> sil2100, pong
<sil2100> attente: on the indicator stack, it seems we get some u-g-m AP test failures, could you take a look?
<sil2100> attente: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/autopilot-saucy-daily_release/94/testReport/
<attente> sil2100, sure
<seb128> Laney, the updates that just landed include
<seb128> account-plugins (0.11daily13.06.12-0ubuntu1) saucy; urgency=low
<seb128>   [ Alberto Mardegan ]
<seb128>   * Fix Google authentication, which was broken with the lasted QUrl query
<seb128>     handling in Qt5.
<seb128> Laney, that might fix your "can't add google accounts"
<sil2100> attente: thanks!
<Laney> seb128: thanks, will apply that
<Laney> I could push my junk branch to something under that team as well
<seb128> Laney, I don't think you can do merge request against junk
<Laney> no, but then you could commit
<seb128> Laney, you should probably just merge it in u-s-s if you want peer reviews for commits, etc
<seb128> well, once you are happy enough with the first codedrop
<Laney> sure
<attente> sil2100, what autopilot version is jenkins using?
<sil2100> attente: I would have to check, but I guess the latest one in lp:autopilot
<attente> sil2100, is there anything i can do to better replicate the jenkins test environment?
<sil2100> attente: it's using autopilot 1.3.1daily13.06.12-0ubuntu1 if anything - you can check the package list if anything
<seb128> bah
<sil2100> Maybe there are some packages that are different
<seb128> is there any way on github to ask for a .patch from a diff?
<seb128> on the web ui I mean
<Laney> I think you put .patch or .diff on the end of the commit url
<seb128> Laney, \o/ thanks
<mfisch> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> mfisch: pong
<mfisch> didrocks: any questions on the rhythmbx stuff?
<didrocks> mfisch: I think I got what you meant (precise instead of raring)
<didrocks> and I sponsored that :)
<mfisch> yeah sorry about that ;)
<mfisch> didrocks: so its in proposed?
<didrocks> mfisch: well, it's un UNAPPROVED :)
<didrocks> then, you can bribe SRU team members to accept it
<didrocks> (no French on that team, so wine and bread doesn't help)
<mfisch> didrocks: just reading the process, so I'll mark the bug as In Progress since its been uploaded
<didrocks> mfisch: yeah, sounds good :)
<mfisch> didrocks: merci
<didrocks> mfisch: de rien :)
<attente> is there a way to get a backtrace from a /var/crash log?
<Laney> attente: apport-retrace
<attente> Laney, thanks!
<sil2100> attente: if you would need the 'snapshot' of the disk from the jenkins test run, just give me a sign
<sil2100> attente: as with otto it is now possible \o/
<attente> sil2100, that's good to know, thanks :)
<cyphermox> GunnarHj: thanks for your indicator-datetime patch -- I'm done testing, and just approved the merge
<cyphermox> sorry it took so long
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, related to the libtelepathy-qt5 requirement, tiagosh says that the 0.9.3.3 requirement is necessary
<sil2100> didrocks: so we'll have to get that into distro...
<sil2100> didrocks: there also seems to be a problem, the required telepathy-qt changes did not get accepted upstream yet...
<jbicha_> sil2100: could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/gnome-control-center-unity/rename-desktop-for-38/+merge/167608 for me?
<Laney> jbicha_: I pushed a patch to eds; feel free to upload it now at your leisure
<Laney> it'll need some changes for upstream but the outcome is ok as is
<jbicha_> Laney: thanks
<jbicha_> seb128: I see that UOA has individual toggle switches so that you can use say Google for Shotwell but not Empathy
<jbicha_> and UOA works with Google 2-factor authentication but GOA still has problems with that
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, I guess rsalveti is in touch with upstream, so maybe better to check with him
 * rsalveti reading backlog
<rsalveti> sil2100: didrocks: what is the issue with telepathy-qt?
<rsalveti> we uploaded telepathy-qt5 instead basically to handle the possible conflicts and issues with such patches
<didrocks> rsalveti: we need  libtelepathy-qt5-dev (>= 0.9.3.3) for telepath-ofono apparently
<didrocks> the day I checked, we had  0.9.3-0ubuntu5 in distro
<didrocks> let me recheck now :)
<rsalveti> didrocks: right, so we might need to rebase our patches
<rsalveti> I'll sync with tiago
<didrocks> rsalveti: ok, tell me if we can help you in any way :)
<seb128> jbicha_, hey, right
<seb128> jbicha_, thanks for fixing the gnome-keyring build, there is an issue with your upload though, you should use a maintscript to clean the leftover conffile in etc
<seb128> jbicha_, (which is the main reason I didn't fix it friday)
<jbicha_> seb128: ah ok, I thought it was pretty neat how the packaging was the same as what we used in the gnome3 raring ppa but the build failed in saucy
<seb128> jbicha_, the build worked when I did the update, I had it on my disk for 10 days before noticing I forgot to dput
<seb128> jbicha_, but someone updated p11-kit in between... ;-)
<rsalveti> didrocks: oh, got it
<rsalveti> didrocks: the last .3 in the package version was kind of internal, as it became native
<rsalveti> so we don't need >= 0.9.3.3
<rsalveti> just 0.9.3 is enough
<didrocks> rsalveti: ah, excellent, sil2100 ^
<didrocks> sil2100: seems that the .3 is not needed afterwards, who did you ask?
<jbicha_> Laney: should that EDS desktop have an icon?
<Laney> jbicha_: no, didn't seem to take effect, not entirely sure why
<jbicha_> kenvandine: could you kick https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/dee/have-dev-depend-on-gir/+merge/168030
<Laney> so maybe that's actually "ideally yes, but I know that it doesn't"
<kenvandine> jbicha_, done
<seb128> mterry, hey, want to get some easy launchpad karma? ;-) https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/gnome-control-center-unity/use-correct-color/+merge/168800
<seb128> mterry, that's the fix for the color issue I described yesterday
<jbicha_> seb128: do you think Saucy should still include dconf-editor by default?
<seb128> jbicha_, it doesn't hurt to have it I guess, but I've no strong opinion
<seb128> mterry, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/gnome-control-center-unity/use-correct-color-raring/+merge/169011 as well (raring backport)
<jbicha_> once your Unity MP lands, nothing will pull dconf-editor in
<seb128> we should seed it I guess
<mterry> seb128, looking
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<rickspencer3> did robert_cancel just write a euchre implementation?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, robert cancel? :-D
<rickspencer3> lol
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, from his post it sure looked like he did
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, crazy
<rickspencer3> it seems to work nicely so far!
<kenvandine> i hope he did :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, I thought he may have found an upstream project
<rickspencer3> bit it looks like pure QML
<kenvandine> looks like he started from scratch
<kenvandine> based on the bzr log
<kenvandine> just a week ago :)
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128 and Laney, just saw the note earlier. you think I should send to ubuntu-devel mailing list as well? should be fun :)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey, your call, it's always tricky to know when things are desktop or devel material, I often end up going for devel (mostly because I don't like crossposting and don't want to include both)
<jasoncwarner> seb128 I'll see how much action it gets today and tomorrow. if not much, I'll broaden it to devel for the weekend etc
<seb128> jasoncwarner, yeah, I think enough people care about the browser that it might make sense to go on devel for it
<jasoncwarner> thanks, seb128
<jasoncwarner> hey seb128, silly question, but I just updated my travel machine to sausy and noticed the toolbars are, uh, weird? is that just me or maybe a known issue?
<seb128> jasoncwarner, how weird?
<jasoncwarner> seb128: you know what, nm, rebooted and they are working. :/ spoke too soon. false alarm!
<seb128> cool
<sil2100> rsalveti: thanks for the telepathy-qt version change
<sil2100> rsalveti: I asked tiagosh, who basically is the author? And he said that some changes were needed that were only in .3
<rsalveti> sil2100: right, but that was because of the internal/ppa numbering we had
<rsalveti> once pushed to the archive I fixed the upstream version
<rsalveti> as we don't want to change the upstream version when doing packaging changes
<sil2100> rsalveti: aah, ok!
<sil2100> attente: ping!
<sil2100> attente: any luck with the u-g-m failures?
<attente> sil2100, hey, i only managed to track it down to this bug
<attente> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1063212
<ubot2`> Ubuntu bug 1063212 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in panel_indicator_entry_accessible_ref_child() from atk_object_ref_accessible_child() from append_cache_item() from g_hash_table_foreach() from spi_cache_foreach()" [High,Triaged]
<sil2100> Unity bug then, ok
<sil2100> Let's get some unity guys looking at that
<maxb> Is there any way to tell totem to default to subtitles=None, always? Mine seems to have decided to turn on subtitles whenever opening a video file that includes subtitle data
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, hey man
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yo
<rickspencer3> mind getting your euchre ppa built for the phone?
<rickspencer3> https://dev.launchpad.net/CommunityARMBuilds
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, mhall119 just pushed it into https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/collection - that should work (it's all pure QML so it doesn't need compiling)
<rickspencer3> woah
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, did you just fire that game out over the weekend?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, over that last week
<rickspencer3> pretty cool
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I was looking for a test project with a bit more meat than animal farm, and your post gave me the inspiration :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I was thinking of taking a look and seeing if I could extract a card game framework from it
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, please do
<rickspencer3> should take me like a year or less ;)_
<robert_ancell> the code is a bit unstructured, which is the downside of using something like JS
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well, you *can* make nicely laid code in JS
<mhall119> the upside is developing a card game in a few days
<rickspencer3> but, it's easy for it to get out of control
<rickspencer3> in my experience, anyway
<robert_ancell> mhall119, yep :)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, I could feel it getting out of control, but I didn't want to invest the time to do it right :)
<mhall119> robert_ancell: are you using one of the gnome card graphics packages?
<rickspencer3> lol
<robert_ancell> mhall119, yes, I rendered the aisleriot cards from svg to pngs
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, that is such a typical app developer experience to have
<mhall119> rickspencer3: I'm pretty sure that's still Facebook's guiding principle :)
<rickspencer3> my son's graduation ceremony is tonight
<rickspencer3> I'm desperate to get Euchre on my phone before then
<mhall119> I hope that's only because you already have working still and video camera support :)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, oh, the image of Ubuntu phone I'm running only shows the top 6 apps, so Euchre doesn't make the list alphabetically. So I hacked the .desktop file to 0Euchre and then debuild and install it to workaround that. Also qmlscene crashes when the screen turns off. So you might want to disable that somehow
<robert_ancell> Not sure if you've got a nicer build from somewhere (this is phablet-flash -l). Also the OSK isn't working :(
<robert_ancell> (on Nexus 4)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, hmmm, Monday's build is working fine on my Nexus 4
<rickspencer3> well "fine" within eason
<rickspencer3> reason*
<robert_ancell> This is build 158, though I had the same issues in 151.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I'm on 160
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll have to update
<robert_ancell> hmm, I run phablet-flash and now it's downloading 147..
<popey> robert_ancell: perl -p -i -e 's/expandable\:\ false/expandable\:\ true/' /usr/share/qml-phone-shell/Dash/Apps/ApplicationsFilterGrid.qml
<popey> do that on-device and all apps will show up in the apps lens
<robert_ancell> popey, \o/ thanks!
<popey> robert_ancell: np, from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper/view/head:/add_apps.sh  which i run post-flashing to re-add apps
<popey> nice work on that card game, looks great!
<popey> be good to get that in the collections ppa... https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/+archive/collection?field.series_filter=raring
<popey> so lots of people can test without monkeying with PPAs
<robert_ancell> popey, it's in there but as saucy
<popey> ah, mhall119 added it a few mins ago
<mhall119> popey: I added them to the touch-collection meta-package branch too
<mhall119> will dput that as soon as they're built
<popey> great! did you copy it for raring too?
<mhall119> popey: no, once the binaries are built I'll copy them for raring
<popey> super!
<popey> look forward to trying that (although I have no clue how to actually play that game)
<mhall119> me either, should go find instructions
<popey> i had a real-world problem with the calendar app while out at a restaurant this evening
<robert_ancell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euchre :)
<popey> someone told me they're getting married and on a specific date next year. there's no way to skip forwards a year in the calendar
<popey> which kinda threw me â»
<popey> I knew that was a problem, but this is the first time I've encountered it while dogfooding
<mhall119> popey: yeah, that's a concern for the datepicker widget too
<mhall119> popey: did you tell them to get married sometime in 2013 instead?
<popey> I did â»
<mhall119> good man :)
<popey> preferably after october "when this will work"
<jbicha_> Laney: you can open gedit from terminal now, right?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-13
<TheMuso> p/c
<pitti> Good morning
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> Mirv: thanks for the doc update, good idea :)
<didrocks> jibel: salut, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> Mirv: do you want a final review on dbus-cpp and if good, we enable it?
<jibel> salut didrocks , Ã§a va pas trop mal et toi?
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va bien, le temps reste sympa :)
<didrocks> jibel: the flipped-container model will help us on the otto side I guess, but I need to talk with ogra to steal all available infos
<jibel> didrocks, yes, but the nexus7 doesn't work yet
<didrocks> jibel: right, I'll try to flash the N4 today
<jibel> didrocks, sorry I can't help, I just have a 7
<Mirv> didrocks: yes, please. debian/copyright could have 2012-2013 instead of 2013, but otherwise ready
<didrocks> no worry! I just need to understand how those containers layers are working on the new model
<didrocks> Mirv: well, TBH, in 2014, this will be outdated :p
<didrocks> Mirv: do you think dbus-cpp-dev-examples should dep on dbus-cpp-dev? (as it's examples to use the -dev?)
<Mirv> didrocks: I don't think they need the headers as they've already compiled (against dbus, via the headers)
<Mirv> surely I can run the examples without the headers package installed, but maybe a Suggests would be in order
<didrocks> Mirv: it's just a nitpick, otherwise, the source looks good :)
<didrocks> Mirv: just building, want to check something on the .pc file
<didrocks> Mirv: everything is fine for me, you add it to a stack (if not already) and we can try relaunching that component on that stack so that I can NEW it then?
<Mirv> didrocks: ok
<Mirv> adding/checking
<didrocks> ok, ping me once done ;)
<sil2100> Mirv, didrocks: it's added already, but daily_release: False right now
<didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: so one of you get that to trunk and then deploy + relaunch?
<didrocks> sil2100: Mirv: I'll pull it in the archive admin server and then NEW it
<sil2100> \o/
<Mirv> https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/cupstream2distro-config/enable_daily_release_for_dbuscpp/+merge/169113
<sil2100> I'll browse through the stacks in the meantime
<didrocks> ok, I'll let you run that, just tell me once it's gating the archive :)
<sil2100> didrocks: as for the stacks that need manual publishing - we're still having a failure with the HUD stack (checking the progress with that in a moment), but so far the media stack looks ok for publishing
<sil2100> didrocks: the packaging changes are sane and no breakage regarding HUD
<sil2100> didrocks: as for the apps stack...
<didrocks> sil2100: I trust you, just ping me if there are packaging change to review, otherwise, publish! :)
<sil2100> didrocks: here the packaging changes have something strange in it ;p
<sil2100> didrocks: one package has a dependency listed 2 times!
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_share-app_0.12~daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> Minor thing, but still ;p
<sil2100> qtdeclarative5-accounts-plugin
<didrocks> sil2100: nice to clean in the future :)
<sil2100> didrocks: but besides that it looks ok
<sil2100> didrocks: could you just quickly re-review packaging diffs for media and apps? I'll publish them right away afterwards ;)
<didrocks> sure
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks sil2100
<sil2100> seb128: morning!
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: all good, +1 from me on both
<sil2100> didrocks: webcreds looks more or less correct as well, publishing once you ack!
<sil2100> didrocks: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/WebCreds/job/cu2d-webcred-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_account-plugins_0.11daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> (for quick access ;p)
<didrocks> thanks sil2100 for sparing my clicks in browser :)
<didrocks> sil2100: +1
<Mirv> sil2100: relaunching platform to check dbus-cpp
<sil2100> Mirv: did you redeploy?
<Mirv> sil2100: not yet :)
<sil2100> Mirv: ok ;)
<sil2100> \o/
<Laney> hey
<seb128> Laney, hello
<Laney> seb128: wie gehts?
<seb128> gut, danke! und dir?
<Laney> prima!
<Laney> wondering why I started getting system compositor review emails though :P
<seb128> the reason should be at the bottom of the email
<Laney> yeah because I'm part of https://launchpad.net/~unity-system-compositor-team but it says the desktop team joined there in april
<seb128> that seems about right
<seb128> they maybe didn't do work until recently?
<Laney> could be
<Laney> jbicha: (yes I know you're not here but it seems you read the logs... get a bouncer :P) yes I can launch gedit, not that doing it from a terminal is something I tested. why?
<seb128> pitti, hey, I commented back on the sessioninstaller merge request, not sure why but it doesn't catch on specific exceptions
<pitti> seb128: did you perhaps try "except ParsingError"?
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> pitti, I tried both "except ParsingError:" and "except DesktopEntry.ParsingError:" ... I'm sure I overlook something trivial there
<pitti> seb128: could you try
<pitti> except Exception, e:
<pitti>     print('XXXX', type(e))
<pitti> that should give you the actual type name
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> except Exception as e:
<seb128> oh
<seb128> <class 'xdg.Exceptions.ParsingError'>
<seb128> pitti, I don't get it, if I try to print the exception it doesn't work
<Mirv> didrocks: redeployed, reran, dbus-cpp built for armhf/i386/amd64 (powerpc failed)
<seb128> pitti, like if I
<seb128> except Exception as e:
<seb128>     print(e.strerror)
<didrocks> Mirv: is it a racy tests? maybe we can have tvoss having a look
<seb128> pitti, it seems to hang
<pitti> seb128: strerror? does that work? I've never seen that
<seb128> pitti, it's from http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/errors.html
<pitti> seb128: ah, so you need to "import xdg", or "from xdg.Exceptions import ParsingError"?
<seb128> except IOError as e:
<seb128>     print "I/O error({0}): {1}".format(e.errno, e.strerror)
<tvoss> Mirv, looking
<pitti> seb128: I really hate this form of import, it makes namespaces so unobvious :(
<pitti> seb128: ah, that's for IOError only, presumably
<pitti> i. e. things that have an errno
<tvoss> Mirv, got a build log for me?
<seb128> pitti, oh, ok
<seb128> pitti, the file has a from xdg.DesktopEntry import DesktopEntry
<Mirv> tvoss: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142306208/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-powerpc.dbus-cpp_0.0.1daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> pitti, let me try the import xdg
<Mirv> didrocks: maybe, dbus related
<pitti> seb128: right, so perhaps add "from xdg.Exceptions import ParsingError"
<pitti> to keep the same style
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that works ... so not obvious, hate namespaces
<seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
<tvoss> Mirv, I'm not sure, the tests are run under dbus-test-runner, not sure if that comes up correctly
<didrocks> Mirv: you can maybe retry the build directly in launchpad, just to see if it can be reproduced reliably
<didrocks> Mirv: if it pass, you can then relaunch the stack with "foo", it will catch up on the status without any upload on the ppa again
<Mirv> didrocks: ok
<Mirv> tvoss: trying a rebuild now, let's see if happens every time
<Mirv> didrocks: same result on a rebuild
<Mirv> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/142308466/buildlog_ubuntu-saucy-powerpc.dbus-cpp_0.0.1daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<didrocks> tvoss: ^
<tvoss> didrocks, interesting. Why do we build for powerpc btw?
<didrocks> tvoss: because it's part of the archs we support in saucy
<didrocks> so arch: any builds saucy
<tvoss> didrocks, ack
<didrocks> tvoss: and don't start this discussion, I have strong opinions on "we should ditch powerpc" :p
<tvoss> didrocks, okay, trying to setup a build environment that helps me to reproduce the issue
<didrocks> (especially as Qt5 doesn't support it through V8, so most of QML which will be our main desktop story, won't run on it expect if we get v8 fixes)
<didrocks> tvoss: tell us if we can help you
<tvoss> didrocks, send me a powerpc machine
<tvoss> didrocks, what's the rationale behind powerpc support?
<didrocks> tvoss: on the way! :)
<didrocks> tvoss: no strong idea, maybe infinity can help shed some light on it ^
<sil2100> didrocks: didn't we disable powerpc support?
<sil2100> Laney: ping
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, I don't think so
<sil2100> Laney: hmm, it seems that indicator-datetime started FTBFS since today
<sil2100> Laney: would you be able to help?
<pitti> seb128: I'll push the three previous sessioninstaller uploads to bzr and then do a new release with your fix
<pitti> PEOPLE, RESPECT Vcs-Bzr!
<seb128> pitti, danke
<Laney> sil2100: maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe
<sil2100> Laney: since I have no idea who to ping ;D
<sil2100> Laney: and I saw you do some commits to indicator-datetime trunk!
<mlankhorst> didrocks: poke
<Laney> sil2100: you mean the pthread thing?
<Laney> sil2100: if yes, I fixed it
<Laney> sil2100: see http://wiki.debian.org/ToolChain/DSOLinking#Only_link_with_needed_libraries
<Laney> MP incoming
<didrocks> mlankhorst: pong
<mlankhorst> any eta on unity yet?
<mlankhorst> and is it still going to land together with xserver
<didrocks> mlankhorst: so unity is in saucy as you could see on ubuntu-devel ML :)
<didrocks> mlankhorst: so we can plan that, I would prefer to have the stack green first
<didrocks> which is what sil2100 is heading to
<didrocks> then, we can decide for the D-switch-day :)
<mlankhorst> I know but it's getting painful that I have to maintain 3 xservers atm for 2 distros
<mlankhorst> erm s/distros/releases/
<didrocks> sil2100: any idea when we can start to have a green stack for unity?
<didrocks> sil2100: then, we should land that with the new Xserver ^
<didrocks> mlankhorst: who maintained the patch unity side already?
<sil2100> didrocks: *sighs* currently for sure we need to have HUD and indicators fixed, since those two issues cause many test failures
<didrocks> sil2100: can you keep mlankhorst updated?
<sil2100> didrocks: that's why I would like to have some additional people assigned to hud, indicators and unity for that
<sil2100> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> thanks :)
<Laney> sil2100: ok, there it is for you to review
<sil2100> Laney: \o/
<sil2100> Laney: awesome! Thanks :)
<mlankhorst> if xserver doesn't bump abi I'll probably upload 1.15 soon after
<sil2100> Mirv, didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/enable_address-book-service/+merge/169165
<didrocks> sil2100: approved! I'll let you deploy and run the stack
<didrocks> sil2100: pulling on the archive admin side meanwhile
<sil2100> didrocks: can I deploy without this merged yet? Just using my branch in the meantime?
<didrocks> sil2100: that's fine if you are sure to be on tip of trunk :)
<didrocks> (there is no other changes in this file anyway AFAIK)
<sil2100> didrocks: redeploying!
<didrocks> \o/
<sil2100> didrocks: done!
<didrocks> let's cross fingers
<didrocks> and get that one in!
<seb128> mlankhorst, one server at the time, please don't go for 1.15 before that get discussed/tested
<seb128> mlankhorst, also, do we have ati and nvidia binary drivers for the new xserver abi in the ppa for testing?
<seb128> sil2100, didrocks: what's the recommended way to get a SRU to raring of one of the daily landed components? just ping you to have a raring landing for that source?
<mlankhorst> seb128: not fglrx yet, but that one's always late, nvidia should already support it
<mlankhorst> iirc
<seb128> mlankhorst, well, we can't talk about landing until we get all the drivers...
<seb128> so that's to resolve first
<mlankhorst> we do have beta drivers, but tseliot may know if they're out of beta already or not
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, basically, they are all stuck in manual publishing mode, so we can land a stack if nothing is waiting meanwhile
<mlankhorst> anyway the delta between 1.14 and 1.15 is small, and almost exclusively contains bugfixes we'd want to pick up anyway..
<seb128> mlankhorst, ok, good
<tseliot> mlankhorst: I don't think fglrx supports the new ABI though
<tseliot> not even the beta
 * tseliot is already having a hard time adding support for Linux 3.10 to the drivers...
<mlankhorst> 1.14 has been out for ages..
<mlankhorst> tseliot: http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalyst13-6LINBetaDriver.aspx
<mlankhorst> it does..
<mlankhorst> or at least claims it does
<tseliot> mlankhorst: oh right that's the 13.6 version
<mlankhorst> tseliot: could we get that in the ppa?
<mlankhorst> (or in saucy)
<tseliot> mlankhorst: not in saucy but I bet it's in edgers already. So maybe we can just copy it from there
<mlankhorst> seb128: it should be fine
<Riddell> hmm, libical transitions has found some packages that don't compile anyway in saucy, gnome-panel kmymoney openchange
<mitya57> Riddell: I can look at gnome-panel, do you have a build log link?
<Riddell> sec
<Riddell> mitya57: http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/gnome-panel_3.6.2-0ubuntu4_i386.build
<Riddell> test-dbus-applet.c:187:1: error: implicit declaration of function Ã¢â¬ËunsetenvÃ¢â¬â¢ [-Werror=implicit-function-declaration] PANEL_APPLET_OUT_PROCESS_FACTORY ("TestAppletFactory",
<mitya57> thanks Riddell
<sil2100> Mirv, didrocks: if anything, I'm fixing up location-service right now - fixing linitian errors and the FTBFS
<sil2100> Adding multi-arch
<sil2100> Almost done
<didrocks> great!
<didrocks> thanks
<Mirv> sil2100: great!
<Riddell> evolution-data-server build-depends on libqt5?  interesting
<jbicha_> Laney: adding Icon=evolution to the EDS .desktop works here
<seb128> Riddell, through the ubuntu online account
<Riddell> ah
 * Sweeshark sobs ...
<Sweeshark> PPA buildd is still hanging with no space left on device ...
<didrocks> Sweeshark: buy a disk dude and send that to the DC ;)
<czajkowski> Sweeshark: always your ppa :)
<Sweeshark> didrocks: I dont need to buy a disc. Actually, I had something like 3 spare disc in my house that all could easily handle that.
<mlankhorst> you just had to break things didn't you!
<Sweeshark> czajkowski: you are suggesting it just my ppa having bad manners and I should get a different one?
<czajkowski> libre office is unique how about that :)
<mitya57> Riddell: fixed gnome-panel uploaded
 * mitya57 likes "-DGMENU_I_KNOW_THIS_IS_UNSTABLE" option
<Sweeshark> mlankhorst: Interestingly the buildd doesnt fail after an "no space left on device" -- it just hangs. If I do that with enough buildds I could easily DOS the PPAs as a whole ...
<mlankhorst> oh the power that you have as libreoffice maintainer
<mlankhorst> I bet you see cute puppies on the street too, and think that out in the open anyone can kick them :P
<mitya57> Sweeshark: looks like there is a regression in Launchpad and it doesn't kill hung builds
<mitya57> I had the same trouble with llvm-toolchain-3.3 today
<pitti> seb128: do you mind if I update gvfs to 1.17.2, or would you rather stay at 1.16 for saucy?
<pitti> seb128: git master builds fine on saucy and all tests pass
<pitti> this will also fix these unnerving "meta_journal_iterate: found short sized entry, possible journal corruption" warnings
<seb128> pitti, update is fine, assuming you deal with the breakages if there is any due to the update
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> pitti, oh, you get those as well?
<seb128> why did that start in saucy?
<pitti> seb128: I'm not sure really
<pitti> I often call evince from vim (for LaTeX stuff), and I didn't have them before
<seb128> that was not happening in raring afaik and gvfs didn't change, I was starting wonderif if my disk has issues
<pitti> but now evince is destroying my whole vim buffer wiht these
<seb128> same with gedit here
<seb128> the only thing that change is glib, I hope it's not a bug in glib
<pitti> seb128: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=eb62d9
<seb128> k
<seb128> pitti, thanks for doing the update!
<pitti> I could also just backport this, but I just landed new gphoto:// automatic tests in trunk
<seb128> updating is fine, gvfs is not on crazy refactoring an anything, and the mtp backend saw some nice improvements
<pitti> yeah, I want these, too
<pitti> and we have fairly good test coverage these days, so I'm not worried about updating
<jbicha_> pitti: do you use the ubuntu-desktop ppa for saucy?
<pitti> jbicha_: I don't ATM, no; should I?
<jbicha_> pitti: I put gnome-session 3.8 there and it builds with journald but I guess that isn't your problem
<pitti> jbicha_: we don't ship journald ATM
<attente> sil2100, i pushed a workaround for u-g-m's tests
<pitti> jbicha_: I'd actually like to just re-enable the systemd binaries, so that it's in the archive for playing around with; even installing it won't change anything in the boot sequence, so it's fairly harmless
<attente> sil2100, don't really remember why gedit was launched differently for that particular test, but hopefully the reason is gone now
<sil2100> attente: thanks!
<jbicha_> Laney: you had a note in g-terminal's bzr branch that you couldn't run gedit from the terminal, I didn't think that was still a problem...
<Laney> jbicha_: oh, yes, I kind of remember that it resolved itself but I forgot what fixed it
<Laney> you can delete that
<Laney> and re: the eds icon - feel free to ask upstream what he thinks of that
<Laney> it'll mean it's blank for ubuntu by default though
<Laney> so if possible I'd rather eds ships one
<jbicha_> also I was looking at /usr/share/accounts/applications/evolution-data-server.application
<jbicha_> and it has <translations>evolution-data-server-3.8</translations> is that correct?
<Laney> don't know
<Laney> I assume mardy knew what he was doing when he set it up
<Laney> but didn't check what the translation domain is / how UOA handles that
<jbicha_> it's autogenerated from the build
<Laney> right
<seb128> jbicha_, hey, I'm not sure your gnome-menus "restore prefix" upload from earlier today is right
<Laney> so I guess I'm redirecting you to mardy for that
<Laney> someone tell him to hang out in this channel ...
<seb128> he's on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> and -touch
<seb128> the poor guys get enough pings like that :p
<kenvandine> indeed
<Laney> heh
 * seb128 just pinged him about qml issues
<Laney> he loves feeling wanted
<seb128> we would be screwed without him
<jbicha_> seb128: does it break anything? for some reason I saw that XDG_MENU_PREFIX wasn't being set on a new saucy install so maybe that's the real issue
<Laney> seb128: speaking of not hanging out in channels, there was a discussion in #-app-devel earlier that you might find useful
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/13/#ubuntu-app-devel.html#t11:52
<seb128> jbicha_, we use /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu in Ubuntu, not gnome-applications.menu
<seb128> jbicha_, if you rename the conffile you need maintscript code to migrate to the new name and clean the old one behind
<kenvandine> seb128, do you want another channel to hang out int?
<kenvandine> s/int/in
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure :p
<pitti> jbicha_: in case you don't know, with debian/pkgname.maintscripts this can now be done declaratively, see man dpkg-maintscript-helper
<jbicha_> ok I'll look into that
<Laney> doesn't that menu stuff come from debian?
<jbicha_> yes but we were skipping one of Debian's patches
<Laney> ah, well it should be harmless if we don't set the env var
<Laney> unless it defaults to something else
<seb128> Laney, I think 3.8 default to prefixing gnome-
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-menus/commit/?id=b53758987b4d04bf9c869bfd02c0ec1d252638bf
<seb128> "gnome-session now sets XDG_MENU_PREFIX by default"
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> jbicha_, did you test your change on saucy (e.g with gnome-session 3.6)?
<seb128> or did you test with your custom 3.8 that sets XDG_MENU_PREFIX?
<jbicha_> I tested with a brand new Ubuntu GNOME I installed yesterday without ppas
<Laney> OK so it looks like we need some conffile moving then AFAICS
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> hate conffiles
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-session/commit/?id=6d7c73177858c3aeb2e65553b30dc536d4f1667d
<seb128> gsm_util_setenv ("XDG_MENU_PREFIX", "gnome-");
<seb128> so they hardcode the "gnome-"
<sil2100> didrocks, Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/location-service/fix_ftbfs_and_others/+merge/169215
<Laney> that's not in our version
<Laney> but maybe that obsoletes the g-menus patch
<seb128> Laney, right, that's in 3.8 that jbicha_ is working on
<seb128> but seems like our gnome-menus ships a gnome-applications.menus
<seb128> I wonder why, it was not supposed to
<seb128> seems like we are sitting in the middle and it's working by luck because there was a merge error
<seb128> but we are likely using the wrong applications.menu then
<Laney> that's the upstream change pointed to by the first commit you linked
<didrocks> sil2100: we shold maybe talk to tvoss about ruby-ronn, it's in universe and I don't think that functionality would justify migrating this to main
<didrocks> sil2100: no issue for now, the destination is universe, but once we will promote touch to mainâ¦
<Laney> haha, they dropped Debian menu support
 * Laney wipes away a tear
<jbicha_> is this right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5761617/
<Laney> look at debian/gnome-menus.maintscript
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, better keep that on our radar...
<jbicha_> oh that's not in the manpage but that looks nicer
<Laney> p1tti mentioned that earlier ;-)
<Laney> it's not in the dpkg-maintscript-helper manpage because it's done by dh_installdeb
<tvoss> didrocks, happy to remove it
<Laney> rickspencer3: man
<Laney> I like your wheels
<rickspencer3> hi Laney
<tvoss> didrocks, do we have something in main for doing md -> manpage?
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> Laney, it looks fancier than it is
<Laney> that's the bike way!
<rickspencer3> Laney, assuming you are referring to my sewing machine looking bicycle ;)
<Laney> also it looks super clean
<Laney> I am so lazy at doing that
<rickspencer3> hehe
<mitya57> tvoss: I think we don't even have that in universe â as Markdown is not designed for that
<mitya57> tvoss: but you can use restructuredtext...
<mitya57> ah, in universe we have pandoc
<pitti> seb128: yay, mtp is working quite a bit nicer now
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime, do the changes look ok? I could ask kenvandine and cyphermox to review that if you're busy ;)
<kenvandine> seb128, what do you think.. should system-settings be SideStage or MainStage?
<kenvandine> not sure that was defined in the design, but i would think SideStage
<seb128> kenvandine, sidestage imho
<kenvandine> agreed
<kenvandine> we'll leave it that way until someone complains :)
<seb128> do we have a device with working sidestage? ;-)
<Laney> get mpt to confirm then nobody can complain :P
<seb128> I never really played with that
<mpt> kenvandine, seb128: I hadn't even thought about that until it came up in conversation yesterday. Side stage for now, until I adapt every screen's design for a tablet.
<kenvandine> mpt, thanks
<sil2100> kenvandine: do you have a moment for a review? ;)
<kenvandine> mpt, the design definately looked like it was sidestage
<kenvandine> sil2100, sure
<kenvandine> seb128, i don't have one... :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/location-service/fix_ftbfs_and_others/+merge/169215
 * kenvandine should lobby for a manta :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: this branch does a fix for FTBFS, add multiarch and do fixes for packaging
 * kenvandine looks
<Laney> how come it doesn't work on grouper?
<tvoss> pitti, got a phone?
<kenvandine> Laney, it's treated like a phone
<kenvandine> because of the size
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> will that be changed?
<kenvandine> dunno... might be a question for tvoss :)
<kenvandine> tvoss, do you know if there are any plans to enable the SideStage on grouper?
<Laney> I was under the impression that it was simply a bug
<tvoss> kenvandine, not sure, better ask ... Saviq
<Laney> but then it's been that way for ages so perhaps that is wrong
<kenvandine> Saviq, ^^
<Laney> also I phablet-flashed this morning and got a brick out the other side
<Laney> stupid saucy :P
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> saucy goes boom on grouper
<kenvandine> :/
<Laney> but that's known from reading ogra_'s email
<Laney> so shouldn't phablet-flash not have done it?
<sil2100> kenvandine: thanks :)
<Saviq> kenvandine, tvoss that's a design question, more, but it feels like there's not enough space on grouper to do sideStage
<Saviq> Laney, ^
<kenvandine> Saviq, understand
<ogra_> Laney, hey, my email doesnt refer to phablet-flash ...  serguiens' does though :)
<kenvandine> but it might be nice to be able to enable it even though it would be small
<Laney> ogra_: No, but it did say that saucy is known broken there
<ogra_> i'm only doing the flipped images
<kenvandine> just so we can test stuff
<ogra_> Laney, yeah, both of us did
<Laney> so I wonder why phablet-flash was switched to saucy for grouper :-)
<kenvandine> Saviq, so maybe some config we can flip just for testing purposes... just a suggestion
<Saviq> kenvandine, Laney Shell.qml:289
<kenvandine> more of our people have grouper than manta
<Laney> ack
<kenvandine> cool
<Saviq> kenvandine, just change it to true or otherwise make true
<kenvandine> perfect
<Laney> we all got given Neuxs 7s so it's good to be able to do taht
<Laney> better flash back to raring first though Â¬_Â¬
<didrocks> sil2100: lp:~didrocks/location-service/fix_weak_dep
<didrocks> sil2100: grab that branch
<didrocks> and then approve it :)
<didrocks> sil2100: add that to daily, run the stack and tell me so that I can approve :) (where is the other one btw? in NEW?)
<sil2100> ACK ;)
 * didrocks goes for some exercice
<kenvandine> sil2100, yeah, after that is fixed it's ready for approval
<sil2100> kenvandine: pushed!
<sil2100> kenvandine: hmm, since didrocks is away, I have a problem with the indicator stack, maybe you can help?
<sil2100> kenvandine: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-2.1build/205/console
<sil2100> kenvandine: I'm getting such an error in the 'build' job for indicators
<sil2100> didrocks: ^ once you're back
<sil2100> didrocks, kenvandine: once the location-service merge is in, could you approve? https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/enable_location_service/+merge/169230
<sil2100> I'll redeploy the platform stack then
<kenvandine> sil2100, will do
<sil2100> kenvandine: thank you! :D
<sil2100> Sorry for so many reviews/questions
<sil2100> It's a busy time as always
<kenvandine> no worries
<sil2100> cyphermox: ping! Are you busy?
<cyphermox> sil2100: how can I help?
<sil2100> cyphermox: so, I had to re-build indicators, as we had some important changes in bamf and indicator-datetime
<sil2100> cyphermox: but hm, something happened and the build job is failing with: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'indicator-datetime_12.10.3daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1.dsc'
<sil2100> Which is completely abnormal
<sil2100> cyphermox: could you take a look? Since didrocks is out for exercise
 * Laney flashes back to android and then starts again
<cyphermox> I was alreday looking into indicator-datetime
<cyphermox> you know, the pthread error
<cyphermox> sil2100: for this one, did you rerun the prepare job for indicator-datetime?
<sil2100> cyphermox: yes, I re-ran the stack with the list of packages 'bamf indicator-datetime'
<sil2100> cyphermox: it then became yellow for some reason (?) and the build job started failing
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well it seems to me like the directory was probably move aside or someting
<sil2100> didrocks: give me a sign once you're back
<seb128> kenvandine, dpm: got it to work: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5761814/
<seb128> kenvandine, it's building the .mo and installing them during standard build, and there is a "make pot" to update the template
<kenvandine> seb128, cool
 * seb128 has translated system settings working
<Laney> that was weird
<Laney> I kept getting errors flashing back to android, but after changing USB cables everything worked flawlessly
<kenvandine> sil2100, sorry, i missed that build failure link
<kenvandine> weird error... it's like it thinks it prepared but it didn't?
<kenvandine> maybe LP rejected the upload?
<sil2100> hm, maybe? Not sure how I could check that
<kenvandine> sil2100, not sure...
<kenvandine> i guess maybe try another build?
<kenvandine> perhaps it was a transient error... like the source wasn't published yet in the PPA?
<kenvandine> sil2100, look at the PPA to see if that version is there
<sil2100> kenvandine: well, it failed even starting the build, so hm - the build step uploads the files to the PPA
<sil2100> kenvandine: and if the build step failed even that, then how am I to fix that?
<kenvandine> oh... prepare doesn't?
<sil2100> hmmm
<kenvandine> i thought prepare did that
<kenvandine> and build watched it build in the PPA
<sil2100> Maybe?
<sil2100> Ok, so I'll maybe re-run with rebuilding indicator-datetime
<kenvandine> sil2100, what's the status of dee-qt packaging?
<sil2100> kenvandine: it was fine from what didrocks and me checked, so it's ready for adding I guess?
<kenvandine> didrocks mentioned that it wasn't ready for daily release yet and was pending some changes to the packaging
<kenvandine> sil2100, ok
<sil2100> kenvandine: once I'll get a final ACK from didrocks, I'll add it and publish
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/cupstream2distro-config/move_dee/+merge/168723
<sil2100> kenvandine: argh, the same issue again ;/
<kenvandine> he said to check with you once it's finished
<sil2100> After re-running
<kenvandine> humm
<sil2100> kenvandine: ok, but first! Could you review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/enable_location_service/+merge/169230
<sil2100> As it was supposed to be enabled once the merge gets in, and it's in!
<sil2100> :D
<kenvandine> already looking
<kenvandine> i was waiting for that merge :)
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> done
<sil2100> :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: let me approve your branch once the location-service one gets in
<sil2100> Since they're both from platform ;p
<kenvandine> sil2100, well didrocks said i should copy some tests over too
<kenvandine> not sure which ones though
<sil2100> Some tests?
<kenvandine> for dee
<kenvandine> i guess make the platform stack run some of the autopilot tests from unity
<sil2100> Ah, hm
<sil2100> Right
<sil2100> Makes sense
<kenvandine> sil2100, suggestions?
<kenvandine> i don't know much about the unity stack
<sil2100> kenvandine: I would have to look at the tests, give me a moment - I'll comment on the MR then
<kenvandine> sil2100, thanks!
<kenvandine> i need to run a quick errand and grab a sandwich... bbiab
<sil2100> ACK :)
<didrocks> sil2100: back
<didrocks> (after backlogging)
<sil2100> ;)
 * sil2100 broke something in indicators jenkins ;p
<didrocks> how dared you?
<didrocks> dare*
<didrocks> do you have a link?
<didrocks> (to the past II)
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-2.1build/206/console
<didrocks> interesting
<didrocks> did someone ssh to the machine?
<didrocks> sil2100: do you see the version in the ppa?
<sil2100> didrocks: yes
<sil2100> I mean, I see the version, but did not log into the machine
<sil2100> Since I wouldn't know what to fix anyway
<didrocks> sil2100: you see that the ppa had it uploaded, right?
<didrocks> sil2100: did you first tried to fix the warning in the prepare job?
<didrocks> sil2100: I think someone did a partial rebiuld and there was an upload meanwhile in the ppa
<didrocks> turning the job to yellow
<didrocks> and so, there was a .project file
<didrocks> but no ppa preparation
<sil2100> didrocks: well, when I fired the indicator job, the prepare job was not yellow
<sil2100> At least I saw everything green besides build and check
<didrocks> sil2100: even when built failed the first time?
<sil2100> didrocks: the build failed today for the first time because of the FTBFS in datetime
<sil2100> didrocks: and prepare was green then
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, but then, when you first saw that error (in run 206), it was when the prepare went yellow?
<sil2100> didrocks: after we got the fixes in, I fired the indicator stack with bamf and indicator-datetime only, and then the prepare job turned yellow and build job failed with this strange error
<sil2100> didrocks: I later tried retriggering only the build and check jobs, but the same
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, this error is a side effect, I need to see why the .upload wasn't removed
<didrocks> sil2100: but anyway, we need to reconcile indicator-dateimt
<didrocks> datetime
<sil2100> hmmm
<didrocks> seems like Riddell doesn't look at Vcs-Bzr :/
<didrocks> sil2100: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/indicator-datetime/12.10.3daily13.06.07-0ubuntu2
<sil2100> Eeek!
<didrocks> sil2100: see the prepare message, it doesn't lie :)
<didrocks> sil2100: but I need to check why the .project file wasn't removed
<didrocks> normally the job should just have turned yellow
<didrocks> and being ignore in the build phase
<sil2100> didrocks: right, sorry about that, since the build job was throwing such a strange error I thought that the root cause is somewhere else ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: no worry, there is clearly a bug there, but it's a side effect. On the where to look: always start on top :)
<didrocks> and trust the message of it, see if it's valid :)
<sil2100> didrocks: in the meantime: I re-ran the phone stack, so address-book-service should be published (will check), and we got the location-service enabled in platform
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, saw the bug in the template FYI
<didrocks> rm -Rf indicator-datetime_* *_indicator-datetime_* indicator-datetime ubuntu/indicator-datetime || true
<didrocks> we don't rm <project_name>.project
<sil2100> didrocks: aargh
<dpm> seb128, cool, I'm going to steal that ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: address-book-service dep-waits on powerpc ;/
<seb128> dpm, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/translations/+merge/169249 for info
<didrocks> sil2100: I don't see address-book-service in NEW?
<sil2100> didrocks: so the build job is still oging
<didrocks> ah ok :)
<sil2100> Missing build dependencies: qtpim5-dev
<sil2100> Should I skip for powerpc?
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> let me see
<didrocks> normally, it should skip it now
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Phone/job/cu2d-phone-head-2.1build/55/console
<didrocks> sil2100: wasn't there another component as well?
<didrocks> thanks for the link
<didrocks> one sec, let me first fix the template while I'm at it
<didrocks> (for the other bug)
<sil2100> didrocks: in phone there's just address-book-service, since phone-app is disabled
<sil2100> OK :)
<sil2100> phew, confusing, so many things going on...
<didrocks> there was one from Mirv IIRC
<didrocks> sil2100: ah, it was failing on powerpc, I think tvoss is looking at it
<didrocks> (failing as build and really failing)
<sil2100> didrocks: which one do you mean right now? As there's so many things
<didrocks> sil2100: dbus-cpp
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, bug fixed in cupstream2distro-config, it will only be solved once we redeploy the stacks though
<didrocks> (it's in the jenkins template)
<didrocks> ok, no phone build
<sil2100> ACK
<didrocks> ok, my fix to ignore should have worked though
<sil2100> While it's still pending
<sil2100> didrocks: what should I do to unblock the indicator stack now? Redeploy the indicator stack?
<didrocks> sil2100: rather merging (or directly pushing to trunk maybe) the missing changelog entry
<sil2100> Maybe like this... not to add to the confusion, I'll let you finish fixing things first, and then once I can redeploy/re-run something, just poke me and I do it ;)
<didrocks> then rebuild with both
<sil2100> Ok
<didrocks> let me investigate on the phone stack now
<sil2100> I'll merge that change in
<didrocks> thanks :)
<didrocks> this is the kind of "it should just work" case for phone :/
<didrocks> argh
<didrocks> address-book-service_0.1.0daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1.dsc: permission denied
<didrocks> normal as it's created by root
<didrocks> not easy to reproduce though
<sil2100> ...;p
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> $ ~/work/cupstream2distro/trunk/watch-ppa -s saucy -p ubuntu-unity/daily-build
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:20,398 INFO Checking the status for address-book-service (0.1.0daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1)
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:20,398 INFO current_package: address-book-service 0.1.0daily13.06.13-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:20,627 INFO Source available in ppa
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:25,990 INFO arch: i386, status: published
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:25,990 INFO arch: amd64, status: published
<didrocks> 2013-06-13 18:38:25,990 INFO arch: armhf, status: published
<didrocks> see, it ignored powerpc ^
<didrocks> don't tell I forgot to pull in productionâ¦
<didrocks> arghhhhhh
<didrocks> "I forgot to pull in production"
<sil2100> Ouch
 * sil2100 looks at didrocks in a bad way
<sil2100> hoho
<didrocks> sil2100: well, the bright side should be that my code was good :)
<sil2100> No worries, good that it's noting more serious!
<sil2100> *nothing
<didrocks> killed the build job
<didrocks> let me relaunch the stack
<didrocks> sil2100: way better isn't it? http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/cu2d-phone-head-2.1build/56/console
<didrocks> you can see that powerpc was ignored :p
<didrocks> sil2100: you can manually publish phone
<didrocks> and then I'll NEW it
<sil2100> Doing!
<sil2100> didrocks: publishing
<didrocks> \o/
<didrocks> sil2100: NEWed!
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks!
<sil2100> didrocks: preparing MR for indicator-datetime
<didrocks> seb128: when sil2100 will ask you to new dbus-cpp (once the build failure is fixed on powerpc), you can ack it, I've reviewed it
<didrocks> seb128: same for dee-qt
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<sil2100> \o/ Thanks guys
<sil2100> Merge for dee-qt is ready, but I'm preparing a list of tests
<didrocks> yep :)
<sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/indicator-datetime/include_direct_push/+merge/169255
<didrocks> sil2100: location-service?
<czajkowski> didrocks: seb128 kenvandine any changes to LP projects/ppas need doing before tomorrow ping me else you'll need to ping wgrant and stevenk or file answers from now on .
<didrocks> I remember building it :)
<czajkowski> I'm pinging your 3 as your groups tend to need some changes from time to time
<didrocks> czajkowski: thanks for the head's up and good luck to your new endovers again :)
<seb128> czajkowski, :-( thanks, sad to see you leave Canonical, have fun in what you are going to do next!
<didrocks> sil2100: hum
<czajkowski> I'll still be around to poke you all re bugs :) don't worry http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
<didrocks> sil2100: if I take your changelog from 12.10.3daily13.06.07-0ubuntu2, there is Laney change + Riddell's one
<didrocks> sil2100: while the upload just have Riddell's one
<sil2100> didrocks: yes, the changelog entry has to be exact?
<sil2100> Since we already had something in ubuntu2
<sil2100> UNRELEASED, but still
<sil2100> Should I move that to ubuntu3 ?
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, so that when we upload a new version (the next daily), we can see that Laney didn't slack :p
<didrocks> and what's new in
<sil2100> Ah, ok ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: right, should be ubuntu3
<Laney> O_O
<sil2100> Fixing
<didrocks> Laney: it's all your fault! :-)
<didrocks> (it's not, but hey, it's Friday for me ;))
<didrocks> (and I just got a free shower on the bike, so I can complain :p)
<davmor2> didrocks: no that's your fault you are the one on the bike ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: should I cheat Laney's changelog entry date and time :D ?
<Laney> haha
<sil2100> didrocks: since the direct push has been done later than Laney's
<didrocks> davmor2: but but! at least, it's creating good memory, I race with another bike under the rain (but he did that being classy, he had a tie :p)
<didrocks> sil2100: no need to cheat on date and time, the daily bot will bump it anyway
<sil2100> ACK ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: at least, it will be realistic: only the new version will have Laney's patch
<Laney> whatever is going on
<didrocks> not -0ubuntu2
<Laney> oh I see, a naughty archive upload
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, and that's not uncharted4!
<sil2100> didrocks: pushed!
<davmor2> didrocks: that's smart not classy, Classy would be with a tails bowtie and tophat :D
<didrocks> davmor2: ahah, "bow ties are cool"
<didrocks> I heard :p
<didrocks> sil2100: way better, approving!
<sil2100> didrocks: since location-service is in platform already, hm, should I redeploy now so that it gets into the archive, or wait for reenabling dee-qt?
<didrocks> sil2100: location-service is all ready? I don't remember ;)
 * didrocks looks at his notes
<sil2100> didrocks: it should be!
<didrocks> yeah, it is
<didrocks> sil2100: I don't care, it will just give seb128 an extra button to push tomorrow as it's already reviewed :)
<sil2100> didrocks: I fixed the FTBFS and fixed up the few issues
<didrocks> so no hurry
<sil2100> Ok
<seb128> oh, right, didrocks is calling it a week
<didrocks> sil2100: if you add a stack to lp:cupstream2distro-config
<sil2100> seb128: hope you won't mind!
<didrocks> sil2100: remember to ask an archive admin to pull on the archive admin machine
<seb128> sil2100, don't worry
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, only when adding a new stack, yes? What about when adding a new project to a stack?
<sil2100> Since the FAQ said to contact the archive admin anyway
<didrocks> sil2100: sorry, I meant a new project to a stack :)
<didrocks> that's the whitelist basically
<didrocks> to tell what is fine to copy to the archive
<sil2100> didrocks: ok
<sil2100> didrocks: about dee-qt... since in the e-mail you said only that dee-qt you had to do a packaging change with Architecture, but nothing else
<sil2100> didrocks: is there something else that needs fixing?
<didrocks> sil2100: no, it was fine
<didrocks> eventually multi-arched if not
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, so I'll add a list of tests to add, and then get kenvandine's branch in
<didrocks> perfect!
<sil2100> And new it
<sil2100> With seb128  ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: if you don't have to list every packages from unity
<didrocks> sil2100: I think you can add "unity" from the tests packages
<didrocks> or no, everything should be there already
<sil2100> didrocks: right, since indicators
<sil2100> I mean
<sil2100> Wait, no, scratch that
<sil2100> ;p
<didrocks> :)
 * didrocks scratches
<czajkowski> didrocks: almost friday.... almost
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping!
<sil2100> kenvandine: I commented on https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/cupstream2distro-config/move_dee/+merge/168723
<sil2100> kenvandine: could you add at least those two test suites?
<sil2100> That's not all of them, but that's a good start I guess?
<sil2100> kenvandine: once those are done, I'll approve it, as dee-qt is ready now
<kenvandine> sil2100, cool, thx
<sil2100> kenvandine: do not redeploy the stack yet though, since we'll do it tomorrow maybe?
<sil2100> Or hm, actually
<sil2100> We need an archive admin anyway probably
<sil2100> didrocks: btw. about telepathy-ofono, last from the list
<didrocks> yep :)
<sil2100> didrocks: the package should be safe now, it's building and such - can I enable it?
<didrocks> so no need for .3.3, .3 has the patch
<didrocks> right?
<sil2100> didrocks: yep, the dep is fixed in trunk now
<didrocks> sil2100: let me look at my notes, one sec :)
<sil2100> didrocks: if all is ok, could you https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/move_ofono_to_head/+merge/167344 ?
<kenvandine> sil2100, we don't need an archive admin, it isn't a new package
<sil2100> This way we could have it in, maybe seb128 could NEW it tomorrow
<kenvandine> right didrocks?
<sil2100> kenvandine: ah, right, it was released already! Forgot
<sil2100> ;)
<kenvandine> yup
<didrocks> kenvandine: yep :)
<kenvandine> although we weren't daily releasing it before
<kenvandine> didrocks, does that matter?
<didrocks> kenvandine: you are talking about hat package btw?
<kenvandine> dee-qt
<didrocks> yeah, it's fine :)
<kenvandine> ok
<didrocks> kenvandine: well, you need the archive admin side for pulling the white list on the copy machine
<kenvandine> yeah, that is what i realized after responding to sil2100 :)
<didrocks> sorry, didn't backlog all the way around :)
<sil2100> ;)
<kenvandine> sil2100, so i can just add those tests by name in the stack config and it'll find them?
<kenvandine> along with unity-autopilot
<kenvandine> in testpackages
<sil2100> kenvandine: yes, just those, and also packages: you need to add like in other stacks
<sil2100> And extracheck!
<sil2100> Reenabling that
<sil2100> didrocks: so, is ofono safe to re-enable?
<sil2100> didrocks: if yes, could you approve the MR I pointed out? Or I can ask kenvandine to take a look ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: I'm building it :)
<sil2100> didrocks: with that, I think we're done for today with 'packages' stuff, just redeploing and NEWing tomorrow
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, just need the powerpc dbus-cpp fix I guess to unblock the platform stack, you will track that,
<sil2100> didrocks: uuuh, one more thing I see...
<sil2100> didrocks: the merge to indicator-datetime doesn't want to get merged ;/
<sil2100> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/indicator-datetime-saucy-amd64-ci/7/console
<sil2100> Dep problem?
<didrocks> sil2100: telepathy-ofono could use some multiarch in the future, but fine with me in the current state
<didrocks> sil2100: oh, just arch to arch: any maybe?
<didrocks> sil2100: maybe libical isn't published yet?
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, it's still in proposed:
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libical
 * sil2100 sighs :<
<sil2100> Then we're blocked with everything then
<didrocks> yep :/
<didrocks> sil2100: do we need indicator-datetime right away?
<jbicha> jenkins doesn't build against -proposed?
<didrocks> jbicha: not the upstream merger nor ppas
<didrocks> (it's the upstream merger in that case)
<sil2100> didrocks: not sure, but it's in indicators, we would have to disable it for now
<jbicha> won't that cause problems for transitions?
<sil2100> didrocks: or can we skip it somehow?
<sil2100> Since right now there's a failed build in the PPA
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, you can remove the .project file in /var/lib/jenkins/work/cu2d/head/indicator for that component
<didrocks> and rerun with "foo"
<didrocks> it will only take bamf
<kenvandine> sil2100,  for packages, since the only thing we are really testing there is dee i am just listing libdee-1.0-4
<kenvandine> sil2100, right?
<didrocks> sil2100: I directly pushed arch: any for telepathy-ofono
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks! I'm removing the .project file now
<didrocks> sil2100: did you check the deps of the network stack?
<didrocks> only qa?
<didrocks> sil2100: doesn't seem even to use autopilot
<didrocks> sil2100: so no dep should be fine
<jbicha> is there a good reason not to build against -proposed?
<sil2100> didrocks: ah, right
<didrocks> jbicha: -proposed is not always in an installable state
<didrocks> jbicha: so can have transient issues
<kenvandine> didrocks, that makes sense... but then we don't have a way to build daily releases that include transitions that are waiting in -proposed
 * sil2100 removing the file
<sil2100> didrocks: will I have to re-add that file manually later on?
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, we need to assess advantage/risks, especially when things are not published right away
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> tricky
<jbicha> but say libunity-webapps needs to be rebuilt against libpackagekit-glib2-16 for a PK transition; you'd have to do it manually
<kenvandine> we had friends broken last week because of the eds transition
<didrocks> kenvandine: indeed :)
<didrocks> jbicha: yeah, that's how we did it until now
<didrocks> jbicha: and backport the changelog to the vcs
<kenvandine> couldn't merge the branch that fixed it because it depended on proposed
<didrocks> kenvandine: this is different, this is for the upstream merger
<didrocks> (but basically the same question ;))
<sil2100> kenvandine: best to ask Didier about the package list, since in the past we had to list all needed components in that ;p Not sure if that's still valid
<sil2100> didrocks: hmmm
<didrocks> sil2100: it's still valid, I have an idea to make is simpler, but need to show you guys and get what you think :)
<sil2100> didrocks: I removed the .project file and re-run with foo, and indicators stack build failed ;p Do I need to redeploy it first?
<didrocks> sil2100: did you push your commit for the dep on https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/move_ofono_to_head/+merge/167344?
<didrocks> sil2100: ohoh, interesting!
<didrocks> sil2100: no, that should be enough, let me have a look
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-2.1build/207/console
<sil2100> That's new!
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, that's a bug in my code then :)
<didrocks> hum
<kenvandine> didrocks, can you look at the tests i added in https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/cupstream2distro-config/move_dee/+merge/168723
<didrocks> why? I tested that though :p
 * sil2100 thinks didrocks will be really happy tomorrow, since he's poked all the time
<sil2100> :D
<sil2100> Finally some peace!
<didrocks> oh yeah!
<didrocks> I'll more than appreciate that
<didrocks> zen music :p
<didrocks> I think I know what's wrong, one sec!
<didrocks> sil2100: mind trying to relaunch?
<sil2100> didrocks: foo?
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> kenvandine: you should install all binary packages from the stacks + all the deps that are not installed by default
<sil2100> didrocks: running \o/ Looks good so far
<didrocks> (the rest is good)
<didrocks> sil2100: phew! :)
<sil2100> didrocks: and pushed the dependency removal to move_ofono_to_head
 * didrocks fixes trunk now
<kenvandine> didrocks, yeah but in this case none of the other binaries from the stack are tested yet
<kenvandine> this is just to keep coverage of libdee
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah, but while we are at it, it's good to test them for instability, right?
<kenvandine> i guess that is something :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: and the day we're going to add tests, we just need to list those?
<didrocks> kenvandine: not sure, just a thought :p
<kenvandine> yeah, but adds overhead for each test run
<didrocks> I hate this "list all packages", but it's a difficult thing to handle
<didrocks> kenvandine: the install isn't a lot of time (it's 1 minute, we use eatmydata)
<didrocks> so depends on you :)
<didrocks> just know it's not costly
<didrocks> sil2100: approved
<sil2100> Awesomeful!
<didrocks> kenvandine: the tests looks like a good selection to me, so depending on what you need to test, feel free to get it merged :)
<kenvandine> i'm getting a package list now
<didrocks> kenvandine: sil2100: nice progress on the NEW packages! let's keep it going :)
<didrocks> I'll make some stats once all the daily_release: False are converted
<sil2100> Thanks! Let's hope to have all the things pending done by tomorrow ;)
<didrocks> that would be awesome!
<kenvandine> sil2100, ok, i pushed my branch
<kenvandine> can you approve it now?
<sil2100> kenvandine: checking!
<sil2100> kenvandine: hm, I think you'll have to re-merge trunk
<sil2100> Or you did that already?
<kenvandine> i did 20m ago..
<didrocks> kenvandine: 20 minutes ago? that's stone age!
<didrocks> :)
<kenvandine> indeed
 * kenvandine merges again
<sil2100> Ah, ok, maybe the CI is old!
<kenvandine> ok... merged and pushed
<kenvandine> again :)
<sil2100> Thanks!
<sil2100> kenvandine: looks awesome
<sil2100> GRRR
<sil2100> kenvandine: approved
<sil2100> But now BAMF fails to build
<didrocks> ok, time to run for me I guess!
 * didrocks waves good evening and good week-end
<kenvandine> sil2100,  thx
<kenvandine> didrocks, have a great weekend
<sil2100> didrocks: bye! Thanks for everything and have a nice weekend!
<didrocks> thanks kenvandine! have a nice day :)
<didrocks> sil2100: you too, good luck for tomorrow, you are the first to wake up, you have the keys! :)
<mfisch> can someone explain the difference between a g-properties-changed event and a g-signal where the signal is ProperyChanged?
<mfisch> I'm getting the latter from ofono
<mfisch> And I Assume that's just how ofono implemented it, as a signal rather than changing a real property?
<jcastro> "
<jcastro>     I am guessing Michael Terry is of French ancestry. I think Canadian, so quite possibly the name has to do with Deja-vu "already seen" and duplicity."
<jcastro> mterry: are you Canadian?
<jcastro> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2154109
<mterry> jcastro, :) no
<mterry> jcastro, massachusetts man, born and raised
<mterry> jcastro, funny thread
<jcastro> indeed
<jcastro> the Canadian thing had me chuckling
<mterry> jcastro, I like the bit about his Celtic ancestry
<Sweeshark> wow, that takes trolling other projects to a whole new level: rob weir triggers a special "send me a private mail so I can tell you how bad libreoffice is and why you should contribute to AOO" on the referer-URL ...
<sarnold> haha
<xnox> Sweeshark: where? =D
<Sweeshark> xnox: seems to be removed again. it applied to the links coming from http://www.italovignoli.org/2013/06/some-food-for-thought/ ...
<Sweeshark> xnox: screenshot are available upon request ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-14
<jbicha> jcastro: of course, half the Desktop team is either French or Canadian or French-Canadien
<jbicha> maybe more than half, I don't really keep track
<mdeslaur> jbicha: make sure you don't mix up all three by accident, that would be an insult :)
<jbicha> now I'm confused
<pitti> Good morning
<bkerensa> cyphermox: is there any readily available tool to chart/time how long it takes for a wifi connection to occur?
<czajkowski> I'd be very surprised to see cyphermox online at this hour
<Sweeshark> moin!
<czajkowski> Sweeshark: good morning
 * Sweeshark cries. the amd64 ppa-build has been canceled. While I dont know for sure, I assume it was someone seeing it had run out of disc space again.
<Sweeshark> And I already removed the subsequentchecks/dev-install and some 100MB from the src-tarball (the latter should have freed some 200MB).
<Sweeshark> The more I think about it, the more I come to assume, that it has little to do with changes in libreoffice (which after all killed the big binfilter stuff recently, so should still be smaller than it was before that).
<czajkowski> Sweeshark: do you know which build machine it was
<czajkowski> I know we are just getting one restarted there
<Sweeshark> czajkowski: no, maybe https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/libreoffice-nattytest2/+build/4669264 helps you see which one it was?
<Sweeshark> Im assuming now its more the dependencies of libreoffice each growing in size like cancer since we lost the CD-image limit.
<Sweeshark> czajkowski: grapping for that straw (that the box was just rebooted), Ill reschedule that build optimistically now.
<czajkowski> Sweeshark: it ran out of disc space and hung is why just asked in -ops
<Sweeshark> czajkowski: sigh
<Laney> happy happy friday
 * Sweeshark look at the line in the rules file saying "ENABLE_JAVA=Y" with a lecherous gaze ...
<czajkowski> Laney: peeka boo
<Laney> hallo thar
<Laney> last day?
<czajkowski> yarp
<czajkowski> been busy so far
 * Laney sheds a tear
<czajkowski> Laney: bah I'll see you in two weeks ;)
<Laney> true that
<Laney> is the new job working from home too?
<czajkowski> oh hell ya :)
<czajkowski> will go to the office for the first few weeks reguarly it's still in london
<czajkowski> but I also have about 30-40% of my time to travel through EMEA
<Laney> :O
<sil2100> seb128: hi! Would you mind if I gave you some packaging diffs to take a look at? Since before publishing stacks, we need to have an archive admin to ACK the packaging changes
<sil2100> seb128: it's all in one diff file usually
<seb128> sil2100, sure, go for it
<sil2100> seb128: SDK stack: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/SDK/job/cu2d-sdk-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_dee-qt_3.0daily13.06.14-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> seb128: and settings stack for now: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Settings/job/cu2d-settings-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_ubuntu-system-settings_0.1daily13.06.14-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> Both changes are sane from my point of view
<seb128> sil2100, the dee-qt one is buggy
<seb128> sil2100, the added copyright states
<seb128> "either version 3 of the License, or
<seb128> + (at your option) any later version."
<seb128> but the license is GPL-3 and not 3+
<seb128> so you either need to add the + or drop the "or any later version"
<sil2100> Ah, right, I see that now, hm
<sil2100> Let me check that package
<seb128> sil2100, the settings one is fine (it's coming from me so I will not complain :p)
<sil2100> seb128: ok, need to fix the copyright then, since it's GPL3 not 3+
<sil2100> seb128: but publishing the settings stack ;)
<seb128> sil2100, you can publish dee-qt but please fix in trunk
<seb128> sil2100, e.g that's a typo, not worth having to retest/respin the stack
<seb128> just make sure it's fixed for the next landing
<sil2100> ACK :)
<sil2100> seb128, Mirv: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/dee-qt/fix_copyright/+merge/169362
<seb128> sil2100, approved
<sil2100> seb128: thanks! Another quick one, the misc stack: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Misc./job/cu2d-misc-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_gnome-control-center-unity_1.3daily13.06.14.1-0ubuntu1.diff/*view*/
<seb128> sil2100, looks fine to me
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<Laney> fixing g-c-c ftbfs
<Laney> looks like goa dropped symbols "that were not part of the public API"... yeah...
<Mirv> sil2100: ..appr.. damnit
<Mirv> sil2100: https://code.launchpad.net/~timo-jyrinki/qtubuntu/dont_install_test_files_update_standardversion/+merge/169355
<seb128> Laney, I fixed it in the vcs already
<Laney> oh ok
<seb128> Laney, I didn't upload because I was working on some other changes and wanted to batch them
<seb128> Laney, sorry I fixed that some days ago but I figured out there was no point to upload the build fix by itself if another upload was coming
<Laney> nm
<seb128> did I forget to push?
<Laney> no, I just didn't pull
<seb128> ok ;-)
<Laney> well, rather I worked from apt-get source Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> you revealed my secret reluctance to use our branches
<Laney> BLAST
<seb128> I'm looking at libgadu and gmock-test (just stating so we don't dup work)
<seb128> lol
<sil2100> Erm
<sil2100> Mirv: so the -examples package is not valid?
<Mirv> sil2100: yeah well it was either adding that or removing it altogether, and apparently Ken knew it was just a test binary (I also sweeped the device image yesterday and nothing uses it, but still kept it around in my branch)
<Mirv> makes sense, though
<sil2100> Mirv: ok, looking good, approving!
<Mirv> thx!
<sil2100> seb128: another one, network stack: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Network/job/cu2d-network-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_telepathy-ofono_0.2daily13.06.14-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> seb128: we're missing multiarch here, but we'll be adding that soon
<seb128> sil2100, seems fine to me
<sil2100> seb128: ok! Publishing, I think that once I do that, telepathy-ofono will land in NEW, since it's possible that it has not been released
<sil2100> So it might need NEWing
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I can review it when it's in there
<sil2100> Mirv: I'll re-run the platform stack once the location-service fix gets in
<sil2100> Mirv: and publish it (along with the media stack) ;)
<sil2100> Mirv: once that is done, I hope you won't mind I finally do some appmenu coding ;p?
<Mirv> sil2100: thanks. any appmenu stuff is greatly appreciated, considering we really won't do Qt 5.1.1 upload (arrives probably around August) with the old patch! :)
<Mirv> sil2100: you may want to check out the Qt 5.1 beta1 I've made available in a PPA, or just take the latest upstream 'stable' (5.1) branch
<seb128> Laney, mono is unhappy about the new automake ... want to have a look?
<seb128> Laney, btw do you know if there is any plan to follow debian on mono 3.0.6?
<Laney> seb128: I'll pass it on and maybe look later
<seb128> ok
<Laney> and well, not right now - it's still a bit broken
<Laney> (having said that: https://bugzilla.xamarin.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9324)
<ubot2`> bugzilla.xamarin.com bug 9324 in packaging "cannot build with automake 1.13" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> Laney, seems like an easy fix at least ;-)
<seb128> looking at gtk2-engines
<Laney> I'll try to dig them out
<Laney> is someone fixing the indicators? :-)
<pitti> anyone with an nvidia or ati graphics card here?
<Laney> i'll do mono then gst
<Laney> pitti: yes, I have nvidia
<pitti> Laney: would you mind giving me the output of "udevadm info --export-db" on that system?
<pitti> (as user is fine)
<Laney> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5764102/
<pitti> Laney: cheers
<Laney> kein problem!
<sil2100> seb128: do you know if there is anything else I need to do for you to be able to NEW a package that's new and not existing yet in the universe?
<seb128> sil2100, no, which one needs newing?
<sil2100> seb128: telepathy-ofono - it was part of network stack, published an hour ago ;)
<sil2100> (through the publish job)
<seb128> sil2100, it was not published, at least it's not showing up on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<pitti> Laney: oh crap, that doesn't have a vendor/product name any more for your card
<pitti> Laney: just for completeness, that I can make sure I fix ubuntu-drivers-common properly, "ubuntu-drivers debug" output please?
<sil2100> seb128: strange, the publish job says all is ok: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Network/job/cu2d-network-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packagelist_rsync_network-head/*view*/
<sil2100> 2013-06-14 08:43:49,758 INFO Writing packagelist_rsync_network-head for being able to rsync from main machine
<sil2100> list is: [('qa', 'head')]
<sil2100> I wonder if Didier was doing anything else...
<Laney> pitti: yep, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5764117/
<pitti> Laney: thanksÂ²
<Laney> kkpp
<pitti> *chuckle*
<pitti> Laney: double negation!
<seb128> sil2100, can you retry? the lillypilly checkout was not uptodate
<seb128> sil2100, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ mentiones "Then, ping an archive admin so that he pulls the modification on lillypilly for the second-safety check process. "
<seb128> sil2100, so maybe ofono was not in the safe-to-publish list yet on that side
<seb128> sil2100, I've pulled so it should be fine if you retry
<pitti> Laney: what does "udevadm test-builtin hwdb /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.0/0000:01:00.0" say for you?
<sil2100> seb128: ok, re-publishing then
<Laney> pitti: calling: test-builtin
<Laney> error reading /etc/udev/hwdb.bin: No such file or directory
<Laney> load module index
<Laney> unload module index
<sil2100> seb128: I thought that pinging the archive admin should be done after publishing
<pitti> Laney: ack, thanks; I smell an udev bug for me
<Laney> :-)
<seb128> sil2100, well the publishing didn't happen because you have a new package which was not in the security-check-list
<seb128> sil2100, there is a second list on the other side of the publisher that checks that we don't publish things we are not meant to
<seb128> sil2100, that's to avoid having somebody e.g adding "linux" to the ps jenkins and having you guys upload the kernel when you are not supposed to have upload rights for that
<sil2100> k
<sil2100> hm, the re-run of the publisher probably did not upload anything
<sil2100> Since I think it thinks it already did previously ;/
<sil2100> 2013-06-14 09:32:08,518 INFO Copying from https://api.launchpad.net/devel/~ubuntu-unity/+archive/daily-build (Release) to https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/+archive/primary (Proposed) for saucy series
<sil2100> Although it says this?
<seb128> sil2100, get a fake commit if you need a version bump?
<sil2100> seb128: I wonder if a commit that just adds a changelog entry is enough
<seb128> sil2100, should be
<sil2100> seb128: ok, I'll try to re-run the stack
<seb128> ok
<sil2100> seb128: we have an issue in the build scripts, I need to fix that first, sorry about the wait...
<seb128> sil2100, no worry, I'm not blocked or waiting on that, I will just review when ready ;-)
<mhr3> sil2100, btw did you have a chance to look at the soname bump for unity-core? a check would be appreciated, i basically just ran sed :)
<seb128> sil2100, do you know what happened to the unity SRU for raring? it vanished from the queue
<seb128> did infinity reject it?
<Laney> seb128: See the #-release backlog
<Laney> it broke because it expired from launchpad
<Laney> they need to start using a staging PPA for SRUs
<seb128> Laney, I just looked to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/06/14/%23ubuntu-release.html and don't have a match for unity
<Laney> look for compiz
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> pffff
<seb128> that's what happen when the SRU team takes over a month to review SRUs for our main desktop
<seb128> that's ridiculous
<sil2100> seb128: uh, didn't hear anything about it
 * seb128 goes to read what happened on the TB discussion 
<seb128> sil2100, you will need to get it republished
<seb128> and hope infinity takes less than a month this time to review it
<sil2100> Mirv: ^
<pitti> Laney: FYI, filed as bug 1190947
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1190947 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[udev] missing vendor/product names of devices (missing hwdb.bin)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190947
<seb128> pitti, speaking about systemd, is that logind that suspends my box on lid close nowadays?
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> not that I noticed any symptoms of this bug :P
<pitti> seb128: it's meant to be, anyway; but our g-s-d power plugin also does it; bug 1180513
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1180513 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "lid close actions are ignored laptop always suspends" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180513
<pitti> seb128: what needs to happen is that g-s-d power inhibits logind's suspend-on-lid (that's done in 3.8, but not in our 3.6)
<Laney> ah it manifests itself in s-p-gtk
<seb128> pitti, do you know if anyone has filled a bug about "shouldn't suspend during shutdown"? I picked "shutdown" yesterday, closed my lid and found out later than it suspend on the plymouth shutdown logo
<pitti> Laney: bug 1186777
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1186777 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu) "Does not show vendor/model name any more" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186777
<Laney> got it
<seb128> pitti, when I woke it up I had 3 seconds of plymouth and shutdown finished
<pitti> seb128: I don't know about that one, no
<seb128> ok
<seb128> is systemd the right component to bug?
<pitti> seb128: I guess we need to do that in systemd-shim
<pitti> as logind otherwise doesn't know that a shutdown has been requested already
<seb128> k, I will talk to desrt when he's online
<seb128> pitti, danke
<sil2100> seb128: hmmm... I re-published telepathy and hm
<sil2100> seb128: I still can't see it in NEW
<sil2100> seb128: do we need to wait a moment?
<seb128> sil2100, the queue updates every 5 minutes let's wait a few minutes
<seb128> sil2100, otherwise we will need didrocks on monday I guess
<Laney> is libappindicator going to daily release soon?
<Laney> the build failure fix is in trunk
<Laney> (it's funny how the fix for that problem everywhere is to disable it)
<sil2100> seb128: telepathy-ofono is there \o/
<seb128> sil2100, good ;-)
<seb128> Laney, same for some of the indicator-* I guess
<sil2100> Laney: so, indicators... let me remember the status
<seb128> Laney, well, at the same time we have no hurry to fix those build issues, knowing that the next upload will build anyway
<seb128> looking to indicators stack on jenkins there are some "scary" changes in there
<seb128> e.g port the new format
<Laney> didn't check the others
<sil2100> Laney: I think we need to release indicators and unity at the same time
<Laney> libappindicator looks kind of small-ish since the last release
<sil2100> Which would basically mean we'll have to fix up HUD first for the tests to pass
<Laney> don't know what the latest change is though
<seb128> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/
<Laney> seb128: still it's good to have stuff building in the archive if possible
<seb128> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Indicators/job/cu2d-indicators-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_libindicator_12.10.2daily13.06.14-0ubuntu1.diff
<seb128> for example
<seb128> +  [ Lars Uebernickel ]
<seb128> +  * Merge lp:~larsu/new-indicator-file-format IndicatorNg: update
<seb128> +    indicator file format The old file format had some shortcomings: (1)
<seb128> +    It was impossible to efficiently reuse a menu for different
<seb128> etc
<Laney> right
<seb128> sil2100, telepathy-ofono NEWed
<sil2100> seb128: thank you!
<seb128> yw ;-)
<Laney> seb128: did you look at bluetooth yet?
<seb128> Laney, sort of, I glanced at the log, seems like a case of "turn of Werror", but I didn't start on it ... if you want to fix it, please do ;-)
<Laney> haha, OK
<seb128> I'm doing some piloting
<seb128> I missed my shift earlier in the week, I was too busy on system settings :p
<Laney> I think it's going to be that XID has a different type
<seb128> well, it has also "variable not used" warnings
<seb128> turn off Werror :p
<Laney> those are warnings
<Laney> found https://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/tomgall/oe/meta-openembedded.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c657f0e6975a283fcc8f3b748c006882fab961a
<sil2100> seb128: quick question - are we providing powerpc in the archive?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> sil2100, what's the real question? we do but qt5-declarative isn't available on it because v8 is not
<sil2100> seb128: ah, ok, I was asking because dbus-cpp (a package that will need to be NEWed pretty soon) has broken tests on powerpc and fixing them is non-trivial right now, so I wanted to disable those for powerpc
<sil2100> seb128: and have been wondering if that would be acceptable by distro
<seb128> it's not ideal, but I wouldn't block things on ppc tests
<desrt> seb128: sup?
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, <seb128> pitti, do you know if anyone has filled a bug about "shouldn't suspend during shutdown"? I picked "shutdown" yesterday, closed my lid and found out later than it suspend on the plymouth shutdown logo
<pitti> hey desrt
<desrt> are we sending shutdown requests via systemd?
<desrt> or just calling 'shutdown'?
<pitti> via logind
<desrt> so i added logic to systemd-shim about this....
<desrt> surprised to hear that it's not working
<desrt> the code is pretty simple....
<desrt> https://github.com/desrt/systemd-shim/blob/master/src/power-unit.c#L45
<desrt> when it starts a shutdown/reboot it sets 'in_shutdown' to TRUE
<desrt> if in_shutdown is true, further suspend/hibernate requests are ignored
<mitya57> seb128: thanks for uploading qt4!
<seb128> mitya57, yw
<seb128> desrt, pitti: my auth.log has "00:05:24 localhost systemd-logind[930]: System is powering down."
<seb128> so shutdown was indeed done correctly through logind
<desrt> perplexing
<seb128> is there any debug info I can provide if that happens again?
<seb128> don't worry much, it's a minor issue, I was just wondering wth my suspend led was blinking after shutdown :p
<desrt> i wonder if maybe the shutdown was going via the other route instead....
<desrt> pitti: did you remove the fallback path to pmutils in logind?
<desrt> s/shutdown/suspend/
<desrt> seb128: was the shutdown taking a really long time?
<desrt> the other thing i remember is that the shim quits after 10 seconds of inactivity....
<desrt> so shutdown, wait 10 seconds [shim quits], close lid
<desrt> in that case, that variable would be back to false again and the suspend would go through
<seb128> desrt, no, 5-10s, the user session took some 5 seconds to close, I saw the plytmouth logo some seconds later and closed the lid at this point
<desrt> seb128: 5-10s is still on the order of 10s, maybe....
<seb128> could be yes
<seb128> if that from the moment the shutdown action is called?
<desrt> yes
<seb128> could well be 10s then yes
<seb128> the user session took almost 10s to close
<desrt> sounds right, then
<desrt> i'll do a patch to keep the thing alive forever when shutting down or rebooting
<seb128> (hate how logout is slower than login)
<desrt> i bet that's the issue
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<pitti> desrt: yes, I did
<pitti> desrt: thanks!
<tedg> seb128, Are we changing BlueZ versions in Saucy?
<seb128> tedg, not planned
<tedg> K
<tedg> seb128, Do you think that's going to hit in Terrified?
<seb128> tedg, we discussed it around february, but bluez5 requires a newer version of linux that the one that was used for some touch images
<seb128> and it was not a priority
<seb128> we can still re-evaluate if there is a need
<tedg> K, I've got no reason to change, just wanting to know for making sure we get porting on the schedule.
<seb128> but there was nothing in 5 that we needed for the phone v1
<tedg> We might need to for T because of NM using it and not wanting to support an older version for the LTS.
<seb128> tedg, I doubt we will update before v1 if there is no strong reason, we don't have resources to waste
 * ogra_ doubts touch images will get any newer kernels in T
<seb128> tedg, let's see when that happens, meanwhile upstreams can port their code
<tedg> Yup, okay.
<cyphermox> bkerensa: there isn't. you'll probably just want to take the times from syslog
<seb128> jbicha, hey, I saw you tried some bugs about the sound recorder, bug #1159744 is about the issue
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1159744 in gnome-media (Ubuntu) "replacment for gnome-media" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159744
<seb128> jbicha, basically a contributor ported it to gstreamer1 but the GNOME guys said the component was deprecated and would want to take the patches/make new releases it seems
<jbicha> seb128: I'm dropping gnome-media for Ubuntu GNOME, if that fork gets packaged I don't know if we'll include it or not; I mean how often do people need a Sound Recorder app anyway?
<seb128> quite some people use one apparently
<seb128> it has been requested by oems to our oem team in the past and we had quite some bugs reports about it not working since it's broken
<Laney> we should probably remove it meanwhile
<seb128> Laney, or just apply the patch from the contributor (would avoid to have to package a new source etc)
<seb128> on that note I'm out for some exercice, be back in ~1h
<Laney> it doesn't seem to really be a patch ...
<seb128> it's mostly a rewrite port yes...
<Laney> get him to release, package it with the same packaging and rename the packages
<Laney> assuming it works etc
<sil2100> Slowly slowly unblocking stacks...
<sil2100> seb128: still around ;) ?
<Laney> run
<Laney> run fast!
<sil2100> seb128: could you ACK the diffs? I want to publish the apps stack, here are the diffs:
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_gallery-app_0.0.67daily13.06.14.1-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Apps/job/cu2d-apps-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_notes-app_1.4daily13.06.14-0ubuntu1.diff
<sil2100> robru__: ping
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping!
<sil2100> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/remove_powerd_from_packages/+merge/169479
<sil2100> kenvandine: could you check that? Since the platform stack does not work right now ;)
<sil2100> hmmm
<kenvandine> sil2100, done
<seb128> sil2100, hey, I'm back, still need me
<seb128> ?
<qengho> chrisccoulson: I think I'm hitting that same ARM instuction-set problem you discovered in December. What did you do to toolchains then?
<qengho> I'm curious if it regressed.
<chrisccoulson> qengho, the binutils update was never published (it's waiting on chromium). are you using the one from https://launchpad.net/~canonical-arm-dev/+archive/ppa ?
<sil2100> seb128: yes ;)
<sil2100> seb128: could you check those diffs and ACK?
<sil2100> I'll publish that stack then
<sil2100> kenvandine: thanks!
<qengho> chrisccoulson: er, hrm. I'm using only stock precise. Did we just change chromium build-flags or -deps?  I don't remember reverting anything here, but I'll check.
<sil2100> kenvandine: do I have to redeploy the stack for those changes to take effect?
<chrisccoulson> qengho, i suspect it will work if you use the updated binutils, assuming it's the same issue
<kenvandine> sil2100, dunno
<seb128> sil2100, those diffs look fine to me
<sil2100> seb128: thanks!
<qengho> chrisccoulson: but I can't rely on that when I give #security source packages, right?
<chrisccoulson> qengho, yes. it was always the intention to build with the fixed binutils, and publish that to the security pocket
<qengho> chrisccoulson: FWIW: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5765160/  SEGV coming up, and a branch into middle of a function is queer.
<sil2100> kenvandine: hm, maybe I'll redeploy the stack - it shouldn't hurt, right?
<sil2100> kenvandine: yes, it seems that redeployment of the stack was needed ;)
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping again ;p
<sil2100> kenvandine: it seems the list of packages we added yesterday is not enough...
<sil2100> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/platform_add_extra_packages/+merge/169496
<sil2100> robru__: poke me once you're here
<Laney> yay, found the right place to poke db5.3 to get it to build
<seb128> Laney, great
 * Laney smacks the toolchain
<sil2100> cyphermox: hi! Maybe you could approve? ^
<cyphermox> sure
<sil2100> Thanks!
<cyphermox> done
 * cyphermox goes to grab lunch
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> seb128: !
<sil2100> seb128: can you help me with another stack?
<sil2100> seb128: the platform stack, it has 3 diffs, there are 2 new packages (will need NEWing)
<sil2100> seb128: could you:
<sil2100> seb128: 1) ACK the diffs that are here http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Head/view/Platform/job/cu2d-platform-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/
<sil2100> seb128: 2) if they're ok, could you prepare lilly for the 2 new packages: dbus-cpp and location-service?
<sil2100> seb128: I would then publish and those two would appear in the NEW queue
<seb128> sil2100, is that the packages didrocks prereviewed for NEW yesterday?
<sil2100> seb128: yes ;)
<seb128> sil2100, diffs look fine
<sil2100> seb128: we just disabled the powerpc unit tests for dbus-cpp packaging-wise, since fixing them would take a while (will fix them later)
<sil2100> seb128: could you prepare things for publishing so that those can get accepted to the  queue?
<seb128> sil2100, I don't know how to do that, let me have a look
<seb128> sil2100, what I did earlier was just to pull the new stack config
<sil2100> seb128: I think it's the part to upload things to lilly?
<seb128> stacks/head/platform.cfg:    dbus-cpp:
<seb128> stacks/head/platform.cfg:    location-service:
<seb128> sil2100, I think that should be fine, they are already in the stack config
<sil2100> location-service is there as well? Ok, since we had those, but we had them on daily_release: False
<seb128> sil2100, let's try, if that doesn't work we will fix it on monday
<sil2100> seb128: then I'm publishing, if they pop up in the queue, I would be grateful for NEWing ;)
<seb128> will do
<sil2100> seb128: and now I need to pop out, so see you later and thanks!
<seb128> sil2100, it's a good time to call it a week
<seb128> sil2100, have a nice w.e!
<robru__> sil2100, hi
<robru> sil2100, actually I'm running out for breakfast in a minute, apologies for my tardiness. Just email me whatever you were concerned about and I'll take care of it when I get back.
<Laney> mlankhorst: do you ever get into a situation where someone overtakes you and then you end up riding uncomfortably fast to keep up with them?
<Eggman2013> I have installed ubuntu from a netinstall
<Eggman2013> it shows ubuntu base
<Eggman2013> i only have the console.  Does anyone know how I get kde or gnome up and running?
<sarnold> Eggman2013: try "apt-get install kde-full" as a starting point
<Eggman2013> ok thanks
<sil2100> robru: hi!
<sil2100> robru: I wanted to poke you about the webapps stack
<sil2100> robru: since the webapps-linkedin is failing to build due to a test failing
<sil2100> robru: could you take care of that? I need to weekend now ;)
<sil2100> robru: so see you around!
<mlankhorst> Laney: where? on a bike?
<mlankhorst> on a bike is simple, I just let them take all the wind and go fast myself :D
<Laney> mlankhorst: yeah
<Laney> when I feel like it's someone I should be faster than, yet somehow am not
<Laney> I did it today up this steep hill and almost died
<Laney> overtook him at the end though \o/
<mlankhorst> hehehehe
<mlankhorst> Laney: I did that a few days ago with 4 bikers all dressed up for it and with real bikes
<mlankhorst> but I was taking it easy at the calm, and the wind was against me, so I just let them carry me most of the time
<mlankhorst> (me with a normal looking bike, with stuff in my bike bags, when they slowed down i took over and carried them for a bit, was fun, but it left me totally dead at the stables I was heading to)
<mlankhorst> Laney: best way to do it is if you only go at 50-60% of your max capacity before yourself
<Laney> well that's what i thought happened at first
<mlankhorst> you definitely didn't, then :D
<Laney> he sped off past me when i was slowing down for some lights so i thought i'd be able to catch up with ease
<Laney> but then it wasn't so easy
<mlankhorst> some people have trained a lot more than you
<Laney> didn't look like a serious biker
<mlankhorst> another time I just followed a single biker in his trail, talked to him a bit, he was just taking it easy while I was definitely at 80%
<mlankhorst> (turns out a few days ago he did 100+ km in a group of 16 with 34km/h average, forgot exact distance)
<Laney> my god
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-06-16
<mlankhorst> Laney: and today I didn't manage to hang onto a biker :(
<Laney> haha
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-09
<Laney> hey hey hey
<Laney> well then!
<rickspencer3> good morning desktoppers
<rickspencer3> I guess there are some folks on holiday today?
<Laney> I feel like it's just me :P
<rickspencer3> hi Laney
<Laney> hey rickspencer3
<Laney> how's it going?
<rickspencer3> Laney, I guess this is your chance to make those changes you've always wanted to make, but couldn't convince seb128 :)
<rickspencer3> Laney, it's going pretty well
<rickspencer3> getting hot hear, rained last night, so it's going to be humid this morning
 * rickspencer3 basks in air conditioned comfort
<rickspencer3> how about you Laney?
<Laney> seb128 knows about my slippery fingers :)
<Laney> oops, xfce by default!
<Laney> yeah doing well thanks, was back visiting the family at the weekend
<Laney> the forecast rain didn't turn up, was a pleasant day
 * Laney whips sbuild
<Laney> you go faster
<rickspencer3> Laney, do you use xfce yourself?
<Laney> no I've never used it
<rickspencer3> I'm so addicted to Unity everywhere I couldn't imagine changing :)
<Laney> was just trolling :P
<rickspencer3> Laney, I used it years ago on a super slow netbook
<rickspencer3> it was actually pretty good back then, must be even better know
<rickspencer3> Xubuntu ftw :)
<Laney> hrm, I did have an eeepc back then
<Laney> I think I used gnome 2 though
<Laney> gave that away to the student radio station at the university, wonder if they made use of it
<rickspencer3> Laney, bregma do you have the ability to get screenshots of Unity 8/Mir running on the laptops?
 * rickspencer3 is making presentation for UOS
<bregma> rickspencer3, there's a way, I don't know details but Brandon has gotten screen grabs (and non-realtime video), I'll ask him when he gets on
<rickspencer3> bregma, ok, if that doesn't work, may a picture of the laptop with it running?
<ralsina_> larsu: hi, tedg mentioned you as the person to ask about messaging menu on the phone?
<tedg> ralsina_, Realizing that it is apparently a public holiday in Europe today, so he might not be around.
<tedg> ralsina_, What are you trying to do in the MM?
<ralsina_> tedg: I'll leave the question in his IRC client then :-)
<ralsina_> tedg: I need to use it from go, so I want a small example (say, in python?) that I can use as a benchmark that I am wrapping the right bits of libmessagingmenu and such
<ralsina_> tedg: I have one for the desktop but it does nothing on the phone emulator
<tedg> ralsina_, Okay, I think that charles just committed one recently, let me look.
<ralsina_> tedg: that's the one I have :-)
<ralsina_> tedg: https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/indicator-messages/lp-1315384-add-python-example/+merge/221274
<xnox> ralsina_: hm, does "$ adb shell start ofono" help on the emulator?
<ralsina_> checking...
<tedg> Hah, charles, your example doesn't work! :-)
<ralsina_> xnox: makes no difference
<tedg> ralsina_, Ah, so that one only does sources, which aren't shown on the phone today. The phone shows messages.
<charles> tedg, it worked when I tested it...
<charles> tedg, clearly it's a bug on your end ;-)
<ralsina_> charles: it works for me on the desktop but not on the phone
<tedg> ralsina_, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-messages/trunk.14.10/view/head:/libmessaging-menu/messaging-menu-message.h
<tedg> ralsina_, You need to build one of those.
<ralsina_> tedg: ok!
<ralsina_> tedg: one of which? :-)
<tedg> ralsina_, That object
<ralsina_> yes
<tedg> MessagingMenuMessage
<ralsina_> tedg: just build it and it will work? No need to do the MessagingMenuApp?
<charles> larsu, are there any special steps needed for phone? ^
<tedg> ralsina_, I think you still need the app, I'd have to look though. There's some consolidation rules that get applied later.
<tedg> i.e. if you have too many messages.
<tedg> But I imagine it's detecting based on the connection.
<tedg> Not sure how that'll work for your use case.
<tedg> charles, Public holiday today in Europe
<charles> tedg, again??
 * charles tuts at Europe
<tedg> charles, I think this one is to celebrate all the public holidays they have.
<charles> still, if the example doesn't address ralsina_'s use case of working on the phone, that's a problem. We ought to provide a working HOWTO example.
<ralsina_> charles: right now just "shows something in the messaging menu" makes me happy enough :-)
<rickspencer3> o/ JackYu
<JackYu> rickspencer3, hi
<rickspencer3> just saying "hi" JackYu :) what time is there? late, right?
<JackYu> it's 00:05 AM here:)
<chrisccoulson> qengho, any chance of an updated chromium soon? :)
<larsu> charles: nope. On the phone, you need to use MessagingMenuMessage though
<ochosi> hey larsu
<ochosi> quick question: since i guess ppl will be working more on the phone now (or on the convergence with phone), is there anything you can say as to what is planned with indicators?
<ochosi> will they remain backward compatible, will they be redone entirely?
<larsu> ochosi: I don't know. If I were to guess, I'd say they stay about the same short-term but will change long-term
<larsu> as in, when unity8 is around
 * larsu <-- bed
<ochosi> ok, thanks larsu
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-10
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Aloha!
<pitti> hey RAOF
<RAOF> You know what would be totally awesome? If gdb didn't segfault trying to load the symbols of mir_unit_tests :(
<RAOF> One of these days' yak shaving expeditions is going to be debugging the debugger :/
<pitti> RAOF: on x86? we have quite some trouble with current gdb on arm (it produces just useless traces)
<RAOF> pitti: On amd64, but yeah.
<RAOF> In other news: I've got 1.25TB of storage on this laptop. How have I managed to use over 80% of it already?
<pitti> HDs are binary, they know only two states: "new" and "full"
<didrocks> good morning!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> didrocks: comment Ã©tait ta premiÃ©re semaine dans ton nouvel emploi ? :-)
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien ! et toi ?
<didrocks> pitti: la premiÃ¨re semaine Ã©tait excellent :-) J'ai le temps de faire les choses "biens" et je veux continuer comme Ã§a ;)
<pitti> didrocks: trÃ©s bien aussi; j'ai eu un bon week-end long Ã  Zurich, avec un ami
 * pitti te donne une accolade :)
 * didrocks donne une accolade en retour Ã  pitti
<pitti> et nous avons des jours trÃ¨s chauds, 36 C
<didrocks> ici aussi, 37 hier
<didrocks> c'Ã©tait difficile de tenir
<didrocks> obligÃ© de courir Ã  7h du matin
<didrocks> je veux courir aujourd'hui avant 11h je pense
<didrocks> (il fait un tout petit peu plus frais, 34)
<didrocks> Ã§a donne envie de manger une glace !
<pitti> mon aussi, je vais courier maintenant -- il encore fait assez froid
<pitti> didrocks: en effet !
<didrocks> pitti: bonne course, Ã  tout Ã  l'heure :)
<Sweet5hark> moin.
<didrocks> hey Sweet5hark!
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: woha scary response time! too much coffee in the morning? ;)
 * dro|desrt yawns
<larsu> dro|desrt: problems sleeping or hanging out in a different timezone?
<larsu> morning everyone :)
<dro|desrt> larsu: former
<larsu> ugh, sorry
<didrocks> Sweet5hark: can be too much coffee! :)
<didrocks> hey larsu, dro|desrt
 * didrocks tries to install python3-apt in virtualenv. Maybe mvo (hey!) you do have a quick recipe?
<Sweet5hark> dro|desrt: theory: us people travel too much -- messes with the rhythm ... anyway sorry to hear that. also http://time.com/2828800/bad-habits-drain-energy/ maybe it bores you into sleep.
<mvo> didrocks: hm, unfortuantely not, you need to build it against libapt iirc but if you have a recipe I'm happy to include it in the pyhton-apt readme
<didrocks> mvo: ok, I'll give it a look then
<mvo> ta
<didrocks> mvo: once the build-deps are installed, pip install -e bzr+http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~deity/python-apt/debian-sid#egg=apt seems to be enough
<didrocks> (not sure how to only install a particular ref or tag though)
<didrocks> mvo: better is to use pip install -e bzr+lp:python-apt#egg=apt I guess
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> didrocks (or anyone else): https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/users-1406-jobin-rv is in the queue for proposed sessions for UOS
<dholbach> shall it be accepted or can anyone reach out to the guy about it?
<dholbach> hum... reading the text it looks a bit like a "this is how to do things" how-to session
<dholbach> mhall119, ^ should we talk to the guy and send him over to http://uds.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/propose-a-session/?
<didrocks> hey dholbach, agreed with you, seems more like "this is how to do things"
<dholbach> thanks didrocks
<dholbach> I'll reach out to the guy, no worries
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<pitti> hey Sweet5hark, morgen larsu!
<pitti> hey mvo, wie gehts?
<pitti> didrocks: running was nice, but starting at 8 was already quite late; sun is burning!
<larsu> hi pitti!
<didrocks> pitti: hum, I shouldn't really delay that more then. I want first to have something passing on Travis though
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I know the feeling -- "just need to fix this quickly!"
 * thumper waves
<thumper> just dropping by to say that I appreciate all you guys
<pitti> "shouldn't take more tha 5 min ... oh dear, dinner time!"
<pitti> hey thumper, how are you?
<larsu> hi thumper! What's up?
<thumper> pitti: being frustrated at dumb go code, my test fails and I'm not sure why...
<thumper> larsu: just popping in for a meeting in a few minutes
<thumper> thought I'd drop by and say hi
<larsu> :)
<pitti> what did go wrong? (SCNR)
 * pitti chips in 2 EUR into the "bad puns" savings box
<thumper> I don't know, that is why I'm frustrated
<thumper> AFAICT, trunk tests should fail in the same place
<thumper> but they don't
<didrocks> hey thumper! no time no talk :)
<didrocks> long*
 * didrocks is already broken by "it's too warm here"
<Laney> hey ho
<pitti> didrocks: I find that it really helps to close all windows and roll down the shades after 9; my flat stays pleasantly cool all day with that
<larsu> it just started to rain here :)
 * larsu is not complaining
<larsu> Laney: hi!
<didrocks> pitti: it's already 26.5Â°C, closing windows -> done since 7am :) however, closing shades is harder for me (/me hates dark)
<Laney> it's active again in here ;-)
<dholbach> didrocks, mhall119: contacted the guy and will reject his session now
<pitti> hey Laney!
<Laney> yesterday was weeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiird
<didrocks> heh :)
<didrocks> hey Laney :)
<Laney> hey
<Laney> did you guys have a nice long weekend?
<didrocks> yeah, it was great, but quite hotâ¦ how was your "normal" weekend?
<Laney> was nice thanks, went down south to visit family
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> umm /me wonders why his pc doesn't turn on
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> not bad!
<Laney> how was your extra large weekend?
<Laney> so it doesn't turn on because it's already turned on
 * Laney slowly goes mad
<seb128> lol, did it turn off instead then? ;-)
<Laney> I had the "Goodbye. ..." thing :P
<seb128> good ;-)
<Sweet5hark> seb128, Laney, pitti: gmorning.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, pitti: hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! trÃ¨s bien, merci ! c'Ã©tait un grand week-end
<pitti> seb128: et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, trÃ¨s bien aussi merci ! mais il a fait trop chaud ici, 35Â°C hier
<pitti> seb128: ici aussi; nous avons l'Ã©tÃ© :)
<seb128> pitti, l'Ã©tÃ© il fait moins chaud !
 * seb128 likes to be able to go outside
<seb128> which you can't really enjoy when it's that hot
<Sweet5hark> seb128: great. god took selfies here yesterday judging by the lightning and according to the thunders wasnt very happy with the quality ...
<mvo> didrocks: nice! I will add this to the python-apt README
<seb128> hey mvo
<pitti> seb128: I went running this morning and did some gardening in the evening; over the day it's indeed too hot, I'm barricading myself in the flat with the shades down :)
<seb128> pitti, good weather for ice cream though ! I got some yesterday ;-)
<pitti> seb128: c'est la vraie faÃ§on !
<seb128> oui, en effet ;-)
<seb128> hum, UOS starts today
<asac> any idea how i can turn off the not-working ubuntu one sync attempts? I continoulsy get notification bubbles etc.
<asac> and hi! :)
<seb128> asac, hey, uninstall ubuntuone-client?
<asac> hmm
<asac> seb128: no way to turn that off in settings?
<seb128> Laney, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/2014-06-10/ ... there is a session about the unity8 ISO at 4pm UTC, in case you want to join
 * asac purges
<seb128> asac, well, they turned the service off server side, we should really force remove the package or something
<asac> yeah i think so too
<Laney> seb128: interesting, thanks
<Laney> nobody asked the desktop team?
<seb128> dholbach asked to have a session on the schedule and I mentioned it to bregma, so I guess he did it
<Laney> fair enough
<dholbach> Laney: UOS dates were announced quite a while ago and a general call for sessions went out as well, so it's not like the desktop team wasn't asked
<dholbach> I think Michael also mailed the UE leads
<Laney> I was talking about this particular session
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> sorry
<dholbach> I misunderstood
<Laney> no worries
<dholbach> it's just that in the past dates were announced late, and this time I felt "we did better", that's why I thought I'd respond :)
<Laney> dholbach: You did, don't worry :)
<Laney> dholbach: In other news, go G+ about how I just added sil2100 to ~motu ;)
<didrocks> mvo: as Travis CI is using precise machines, that was a little bit longer than expected (had to add apt 1.0 to my ppa for requirements), but here is a log of python3-apt compiled in a virtualenv, and installed with pip: https://travis-ci.org/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/builds/27200092. There is just one test on apt for now which "import apt" to ensure it's in the virtualenv (no distro-wide
<didrocks> packages installed) :)
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> Yaaay!
<sil2100> Thank you ;)
<didrocks> mvo: click on the "install" button to see the compilation of this module
<Laney> with great power comes dput auofaijfoiaghih
<dholbach> Laney, yeeeeeeeehaw
<larsu> lol
<dholbach> sil2100, congratulations! :-)
 * didrocks guesses that means sil2100 is now a MOTU :)
<Laney> ja
<didrocks> congrats sil2100!
<seb128> sil2100, congrats!
<sil2100> Thanks! I can now BREAK THE UNIVERSE :E
 * sil2100 starts his plan
<sil2100> Ok ok, just kidding, I don't want to loose my rights right after getting them ;p
<Laney> sauron is watching
 * seb128 disable universe from his sources.list
 * davmor2 quickly signs sil2100 up to QA while he can still break stuff
<mvo> didrocks: nice!
<mvo> hey seb128 and pitti, sorry, didn't see your hello earlier, was looking at code :)
 * pitti waves to mvo and tosses some ice cubes
<didrocks> now that tests pass, time to run
<didrocks> whish me luck that I don't melt down!
<pitti> didrocks: good luck!
<pitti> bon courier !
<didrocks> merci ! je vais essayer de bien courir !
<mvo> didrocks: enjoy
<seb128> didrocks, bon courage... ;-=)
 * didrocks s'arme d'une casquette ubuntu :)
<seb128> you already received it?
<didrocks> yep, this morning
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> indeed, time to try it!
<didrocks> see you later guys
<seb128> ttyl!
 * Laney wants one of these
<xnox> hm?
<Laney> hmhm
<seb128> hmh!
<xnox> "une casquette ubuntu" -> an ubuntu helmet?
<seb128> cap
<seb128> xnox, https://translate.google.fr/#fr/en/casquette
<xnox> ah, une casquette est un petit casque
<seb128> Laney, should we just retry https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webkitgtk/2.4.3-1ubuntu1 (the armhf build)?
<Laney> no it doesn't work
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> i uploaded a fix
<seb128> k
<Laney> same breakage happened in U
<Laney> and Debian
<Laney> oh cool they have a new fix there, maybe that's better
<seb128> good to see that the fix worked in utopic ;-)
<Laney> i'll wait to see if it builds in unstable before merging it ;-)
<dholbach> seb128, can somebody respond to https://twitter.com/ajcook_/status/475792456211255296?
<seb128> dholbach, that's a question for tiheum ;-) I've no idea what are the plans for the new theme and desktop (out of convergence/getting them with unity8)
<dholbach> ok cool, tiheum: if you could respond that'd be great :)
<tiheum> dholbach, seb128, I will
<dholbach> perfect :)
<seb128> tiheum, thanks
 * didrocks is back and aliveâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, how was it? not too hot?
<didrocks> seb128: it was too hot, was hard to not stop running at some points
<didrocks> will definitively run before 8am tomorrowâ¦
<seb128> yeah, earlier is better with that weather
<didrocks> clearlyâ¦ at least cycling back was nice and refreshing
<Laney> tjaalton: can I merge weston?
<Laney> The current version FTBFS and we need to upload it for the colord transition
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, I've seen the fix for libdbusmenu is in the ci train queue, can you also care about SRUing it to 14.04? :P
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, yes that was planned, I wanted it to land in utopic first though
<Trevinho> seb128: indeed, thank you
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks for fixing that bug ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: as that was affecting some 3rdy apps (see the copy.com indicator), so it would be nice to land in stable
<seb128> right
<seb128> Trevinho, speaking of stable, do you know if the "can't resize update-manager" and "the number of pips on the launcher is wrong" issues are going to be fixed in the next Unity SRU? ;-)
<Trevinho> seb128: I hope so, the fixes are already done... The 2nd one is approved, the 1st is in my manchine still, but done :P
<seb128> ;-)
<Trevinho> anyway. I think they will... BUt there are some strange errors about the last unity version in e.u.c...
<seb128> oh?
<seb128> like?
<Trevinho> they point weird stack traces, so they look like regression, although the code mentioned has nothing to do with the latest SRU changes, and the worst thing is that the frames pointed by the stacktrance seems to be disconnected between them (i.e. there's no real code paths between them)
<Trevinho> seb128: https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/8fc148da910ae3d63758f6e96174a502860a6b95
<seb128> weird
<Trevinho> seb128: or another couple... but for some reason there are no unity symbols there, so it's also hard to undestand what it means
<seb128> could be corrupted memory/invalid free somewhere
<Trevinho> I would say there is an abi issue, if there was any chance for that, but I think nothing changed on that side
<Trevinho> might be, but I don't see much manual memory handling on new code
<Trevinho> (not to mention that non of us saw these crashes on their machines)
<Trevinho> I might give valgrind another go, but there are no informations in the bug reports about when an issue happens... so not easy to understand
<seb128> yeah :/
<seb128> could be that the bug is not new, just some other changes made it more likely to happen
<seb128> larsu, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+source/gtk+3.0/3.12.2-0ubuntu1
<larsu> seb128: \o/
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> omgyoubrokeeverything
<seb128> lol
<Laney> (who tested ubiquity?)
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> (xnox?)
<xnox> Laney: hm?
<xnox> Laney: python3.4 broke ubiquity, so haven't tested with 3.12
<Laney> gtk 3.12
<Laney> well it's uploaded now :-)
<seb128> we are going to figure out tomorrow
<seb128> or whenever next iso is built with it
<xnox> Laney: well, hopefully the image you respun is good =)
<Laney> that won't have it
<Laney> unless you mean we can freeze this one until release
<Laney> SHIP IT
<xnox> Laney: it should have python3.4 fix, and thus when image with 3.12 is build we can start the gtk theming bugs treasure hunt.
<seb128> that GTK update seems to be better on that front, we didn't have to fix themes or scrollbars this time
<Laney> yeah hopefully so
<Laney> ubiquity seems more sensitive than most things usually though
<Laney> but it should be ok i reckon
<xnox> yeah, but our theme still have bugs. Cause e.g. adwaita had fixes for elements looking odd in certain layouts, which i don't think have been applied to light-themes
<om26er> seb128, Hi! who is now working on system-settings ?
<seb128> om26er, hey, Jonas is
<seb128> he's jgdx on IRC
<om26er> seb128, US time I would assume ?
<Laney> depending on the question we might be better placed to answer
<Laney> europe
<seb128> just as on #ubuntu-touch
<seb128> he's in Oslo, european tz
<om26er> Laney, wanted my system upgrade tests reviewed
<seb128> is that https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu-system-settings/upgrade_testing_prerequisite/+merge/214722 ?
<om26er> seb128, that and upgrade testing part, which is for ubuntu-system-image
<seb128> om26er, I reviewed that one some weeks ago, did you see it's "needs information"?
<seb128> it's blocked on you to reply to the review
<seb128> no need to ping more people until that happens...
<seb128> Laney, larsu: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/177329115/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.gtk%2B3.0_3.12.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> umm
<om26er> seb128, sorry, missed that somehow. I will reply to that, I also wanted to get a sanity review of the upgrade tests but I'll first try to resolve this MR
<larsu> seb128: :( I just tried on my machine and it worked
<Laney> weird
<Laney> I tried it in a chroot...
<larsu> Laney: any clue what's wrong there? The paths look right to me...
<seb128> there are quite some tests failing in that log
<larsu> ya, I'm on it
<larsu> would be easier if I could reproduce :-/
<seb128> not sure what's going on with the image loaders
<seb128> yeah, same here, works locally
<xnox> seb128: missing a gnome-shell running ?! </troll>
<seb128> xnox, you mean systemd-shell? </troll>
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> but it's not friday
 * seb128 stops the trolling
<dro|desrt> good morning :)
<larsu> seb128: those are just warnings though, they shouldn't fail the test
 * dro|desrt feels like he walked in about 90 seconds too late
<didrocks> re good morning dro|desrt!
<larsu> dro|desrt: you again
<larsu> I mean, good morning!
 * dro|desrt spent some time reading about the bizarre web of public and private money that currently owns ontario highway 407 before going back to bed
<seb128> larsu, "  /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.12.2/testsuite/a11y/messagedialog.ui:        Contents don't match expected contents:"
<seb128> larsu, that seems a real issue/fail?
<seb128> dro|desrt, hey, still dro?
<dro|desrt> seb128: until thursday
<seb128> oh, k
<seb128> having fun doing it? ;-)
<Laney> what is dro?
<dro|desrt> reminds me -- i need to fetch and count my ballots
<dro|desrt> larsu: deputy returning officer (election official)
<Laney> no me
<seb128> Laney, http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=glo&document=index&lang=e#d
<dro|desrt> tl;dr: i'm responsible for a poll
<Laney> sounds like fun
<Laney> is this voluntary?
<dro|desrt> ish
<larsu> dro|desrt: I know...
<larsu> oh, Laney
<dro|desrt> there's pay, but i think it's somewhat below minimum wage
<Laney> you do the count per polling station?
<dro|desrt> yes
<dro|desrt> our system is fantastically transparent
<Laney> (lt-accessibility-dump:4736): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: No GSettings schemas are installed on the system
<Laney> what is this
<dro|desrt> i open the box with representatives of each candidate present and count in front of everyone... then certify the result and give everyone a copy.  if any candidate wants, they could add up all of these copies (from their representatives) and independently calculate the result themselves
<dro|desrt> larsu: XDG_DATA_DIRS fail?
<dro|desrt> *laney, sorry
<larsu> apparently your tab completion order got changed...
<dro|desrt> you two need to disambiguate before the third letter :p
<larsu> seb128: right, it changes under unity because of our patch
<larsu> seb128: but shouldn't we see the same error locally then?
<seb128> we build under unity
 * larsu is running unity
<seb128> the buildds don't
<seb128> so that might be the difference
<Laney> I built in a chroot
<larsu> seb128: right, but I would have thought it is the other way around, since we change the dialog for unity and the test was written for the original dialog
<larsu> in any case, that's probably it
<larsu> dro|desrt: and you need to be desrt|dro
<larsu> to not fuck with my tab completion
<dro|desrt> :)
 * dro|desrt often feels sorry for descender on #gtk+
<larsu> who is that?
<dro|desrt> some guy with a nick starting with 'des'
<larsu> ya, I got that much,,,
<seb128> well, at least there is no didrocks on that channel (he's using a client that gets confused often by nicknames)
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> Laney, re sbuild, it's possible the temporary vcs had the make check || trued, I commited that by error but fixed before the archive upload
<Laney> urg
<seb128> just mentioning it, in case
<Laney> yeah looks like it was commented out
<Laney> :/
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> sorry about that, the test fails locally here for some reason, I never took the time to debug it, so I usually || true them while I'm working on the packaging and then do a proper test in pbuilder or such before upload
<seb128> but I managed to commit the hack this time
<dro|desrt> larsu: get a chance to start reviewing the parser stuff yet?
<larsu> dro|desrt: no. Thanks for the reminder
<Laney> well i should be able to reproduce it then
<Laney> hopefully it's just a missing build-dep
<seb128> Laney, let me know if you want me to have a look
<seb128> no need to have 3 of us looking at the same thing
<seb128> larsu, ^
<larsu> dro|desrt: wip/new-parser?
<dro|desrt> yes
<larsu> seb128: k
<Laney> I need a new laptop or at least moar rams
<Laney> come on laptop refresh
<seb128> same here
<seb128> I had the refresh
<Laney> firefox dies on gtk buildlogs
<seb128> but I'm waiting on Dell to fix the xps
<seb128> Laney, btw, they just give you money for the refresh, so you have the option to buy before the refresh if you don't mind having some money out of the bank until the refresh lands
<Laney> seb128: yeah, still a year off though
<Laney> I kind of want to have made a laptop last for 5 years too
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> well, I'm still happy with my Dell which is 4 years old, but it's a bit heavy and I could use a bit more ram and disk
<seb128> though I'm not doing that much builds so it's fine most of the time
<Laney> yeah I have a (not Sweet5hark style, but still) decent desktop for doing builds
<dro|desrt> interesting...
<Laney> I'm going to the cafe for lunch
<Laney> will look at gtk when I get back
<Laney> just built the ~build1 version again by mistake :(
 * dro|desrt wrote a non-contention-optimised ultra-simple mutex implementation to replace pthreads in glib
<seb128> Laney, do you clean the builddir after build? or can you get back in there and run make check by hand?
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<dro|desrt> turns out in the non-contended case (which is what i wrote it for) it beats pthreads by ~25%
<Laney> it only sticks around on failed builds
<seb128> k
<dro|desrt> in the contended case, it's more like 4 _times_ faster
<xnox> latest image -> unity-settings-daemon is running, yet background is some gray color, instead of the default wallpaper =(
<larsu> dro|desrt: nice. Any specific usecase?
<dro|desrt> larsu: those numbers from the in-tree testcase
<dro|desrt> but working with the gstreamer guys pretty closely
<larsu> ah, cool
<seb128> xnox, is that a one time thing?
<xnox> seb128: cold ubiquity cd boot. I mean ubiquity-dm =) i don't care about the live session, which is probably is all fine.
<seb128> xnox, the question stands
<seb128> is that a new issue?
<seb128> u-s-d didn't really change since trusty
<xnox> seb128: i believe it used to be fine in may.
 * xnox goes to check the archive of image that i have
<seb128> weird
<seb128> did you try to boot again, in case that was a one time weirdness?
<xnox> seb128: not a one time weirdness.
<xnox> live session is fine.
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> is u-s-d running in that ubiquity-dm session?
<seb128> (like can you check the status of the job/the processes list)
<mhall119> dholbach: was that guy not planning on leading his session?
<dholbach> mhall119, err, yes - why?
<dholbach> mhall119, it looks like he submitted it to the wrong queue
<dholbach> mhall119, blueprints vs. howto-session-in-users-track
<dholbach> I mailed him and rejected the blueprint
<mhall119> ah, ok
<mterry> seb128, heyo!  So I signed us up for a unity8 desktop image session, and it got scheduled today at 16h UTC
<mterry> seb128, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/meeting/22308/unity8-desktop-preview-image/
<seb128> mterry, hey, thanks for registering that one, I saw it this morning/added myself to the participants list
<mterry> seb128, oh so I see!  Awesome
<seb128> did you ping bregma about it as well?
<mterry> seb128, I don't know if we want to prepare anything more than hashing out what we talked about in Malta into work items, but there we go
<mterry> seb128, I subscribed bregma...  Hi, bregma!  ^  :)
<seb128> mterry, I think hashing out work items is going to be good enough
<bregma> I was planning to go to Marco's session scheduled at the same time
<mterry> hrm
<mterry> I wonder how easy it is to reschedule a session
<bregma> which he may cancel if he can't come up with anything to say...  I think he was voluntold to do that session
<mterry> :)
<seb128> dholbach, mhall119: who is doing scheduling?
<seb128> shame that we have 2 unity session for the week and they got scheduled in the exact same slot
<dholbach> seb128, which one should go where?
<Trevinho> if you want I can do it later... I mean I'm flexible on times
<seb128> dholbach, the productivity with Unity one, could we get it moved to any other slot?
<seb128> Trevinho, do you have preferred time? like 6pm utc today
<Trevinho> 6pm my time?
<Trevinho> or utc
<Trevinho> mh, no it's too late as I've to go out tonight :/ but tomorrow is fine
<dholbach> Trevinho, ok - can you take a look at tomorrow's schedule and tell me where to place it?
<mhall119> seb128: track leads do scheduling, same as always
<seb128> Trevinho, tomorrow 4pm utc (6pm your time)
 * Trevinho thought to be more flexible... until recalled of that thing... :P
<dholbach> Trevinho, http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1406/2014-06-11/
<Trevinho> seb128: cool
<seb128> dholbach, ^
<dholbach> ok
<seb128> danke
<mterry> awesome!
<mterry> Can't escape so easily, bregma
<seb128> hehe
<dholbach> Trevinho, seb128: done - check the schedule to see if it's all right
<seb128> dholbach, looks good to me, thanks
<dholbach> rock on
<bregma> I see my cow has been orked in the CI-train, another delay landing the Unity8 desktop session fixes
<mterry> seb128, how do I add people to the video stream?  Do I just give out a hangout url when the time comes?
<seb128> mterry, yes
<seb128> just share the url once you started the hangout
<Sweet5hark> seb128: thanks for the sync galore!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yw!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, btw what's the status of that trusty SRU/security upload?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: out of my hands. I heard of no blockers from aconrad ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, who is handling it?
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76450 got a fix commited upstream, could you test it/backport it for utopic/trusty if it works? (I can sponsor the upload for you if you don't have upload rights for libspectre)
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 76450 in general "Documents are not rotated correctly" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ricotz> seb128, hi, thanks for the syncs, may i draw you attention to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librevenge/+bug/1328194
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1328194 in librevenge (Ubuntu) "[MIR] librevenge" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> ricotz, hey, I'm not in the MIR team... and that bug lacks some informations, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<ricotz> seb128, ah, i see
<larsu> Laney: did you find out why the gtk tests failed? Need any help?
<seb128> larsu, he said he was going out for lunch and looking at it once back, let's wait a bit
<larsu> ah okay
<larsu> just checking in. Thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> hey
<Laney> I got the failure, let's have a look
 * larsu assumes it has something to do with the dialog patch
<Laney> larsu: I guess so: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=8520282
<larsu> Laney: and without my patch this test breaks?
<larsu> because it's not adding the header bar
<Laney> larsu: Hmm I don't get the "Contents don't match expected contents" one
<Laney> the runner is supposed to set gtk-dialogs-use-header to true
<seb128> Laney, does it happen with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=Unity?
<cyphermox> howdy
<seb128> hum, no, it's supposed to be the other way around rather
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<cyphermox> Laney: seb128: care to review my u-s-s merge again? :)
<cyphermox> seb128: great, you?
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm good, thanks!
<seb128> cyphermox, sure, can do
<seb128> cyphermox, did you see my ping some time ago about the bluetooth items in the sponsoring queue btw?
<seb128> cyphermox, bug #1035431
<ubot5> bug 1035431 in gnome-bluetooth (Ubuntu) "bluetooh-wizard failed to connect to a keyboard(logitech)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035431
<cyphermox> I did, I'm doing the best I can
<seb128> no worry, just checkin
<larsu> Laney: do you see another one?
<Laney> it's in the original build log
<Laney> look for that string
<larsu> right, I saw that one
<larsu> just wondering if you're seeing something else or if it builds for you
<Laney> no I see that one
<larsu> Laney: hm? you said "Hmm I don't get the "Contents don't match expected contents" one"
<Laney> I meant "I don't understand"
<Laney> sorry, english
<larsu> ah!
<larsu> I get it now
<seb128> larsu, I though you didn't get it?
<seb128> </troll>
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 beats english with a stick
<larsu> :D
<Laney> ICH WEISS NICHT
<larsu> why do people always yell when talking German? :P
<seb128> it's not the way it's supposed to be?
<Laney> because otherwise it sounds too gentle ;-)
<larsu> lol
<Laney> anyway
<Laney> do you know why this one might be failing?
<larsu> not yet, but I'm looking into it right now
<Laney> seems like it shouldn't have changed in that case
<Laney> okay
<larsu> actually, I'm making a tea and will look into it in 3 minutes
<larsu> ;)
<sil2100> didrocks: hello! :)
<sil2100> didrocks: how are you?
<Laney> cyphermox: did you get anywhere with the modemmanager/ofono conflicts thing?
<didrocks> sil2100: hey! I think I already told you hello when I congrats you for being MOTU (not sure if you saw/read ;))
<cyphermox> next on my list
<Laney> ok
<sil2100> didrocks: ooh! :)
<sil2100> didrocks: are you super busy? Since I guess we would use your citrain-jenkins-instance expertise with one problem we're having ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: is that urgent? I'm following vUDS while trying to code
<ogra_> vUDS is dead ... long live UOS
<ogra_> :P
<Laney> vUvOvSv
<ogra_> lol
<sil2100> didrocks: webops are sniffing around by themselves now, so I guess we'll get to it sooner or later, but I would like to ask a few questions that could help us out ;) As currently we cannot build anything due to permission issue on the new jenkins ;p
<didrocks> sil2100: due to the migration? there was no staging trials before?
<didrocks> sil2100: don't ask to ask, just ask please
<didrocks> that will minimize interruptions as well
<sil2100> didrocks: so, it seems that in the new instance we're getting a permission denied on executing cow-shell
<sil2100> chroot: failed to run command `cow-shell': Permission denied
<sil2100> didrocks: this happens when the cowbuilder is started
<rickspencer3> didrocks, are you watching robbiew, right now?
<rickspencer3> he's saying there will be good sessions this week on juju GUI :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, I am, I noticed the lxc sessions
<didrocks> rickspencer3: I will have conflicting sessions on the juju GUI one though. But I plan to watch it after that :)
<didrocks> sil2100: hum, do you have cowbuilder in the sudoer whitelisted command?
<sil2100> didrocks: from what ChrisS said it seems so, besides, it would barf earlier like during executing cowbuilder itself, while it continues until it has to run cow-shell
<didrocks> sil2100: was cow tried on tmpfs before doing the switch?
<sil2100> didrocks: it's not using tmpfs right now, as we noticed problems with that
<sil2100> didrocks: so we're only having a 'bigger' jenkins
<sil2100> So theoretically everything should stay the same
<didrocks> sil2100: The only interaction with cowbuilder I have is on the sudoers thingy
<didrocks> sil2100: please check that
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, thanks ;) We'll dig further, I just told him to double-check
<didrocks> yw! keep me posted :)
<larsu> Laney: ah, it's because I add the image for messagedialogs back unconditionally
<larsu> and only hide it if we're on !unity
 * larsu is unsure if he even hides it
<larsu> dro|desrt: I think you broke building the gtk 3.12 branch with f15f13a0f
<larsu> ./.libs/libgtk-3.so: undefined reference to `gtk_menu_tracker_item_get_is_visible'
<Laney> separately, I think you need to fix the test from that earlier commit back to == 1
<Laney> and we need to add a build dependency on gnome-icon-theme-symbolic
<Laney> I think that's all the problems
<dro|desrt> larsu: interesting!
<larsu> Laney: on it
<dro|desrt> this bug makes a whole lot more sense now
<larsu> which bug?
<dro|desrt> this paramspec brokenness
<dro|desrt> this used to be a signal that had the visibility state as its argument
<dro|desrt> i changed it to use a notify
<dro|desrt> that's why it started crashing...
<dro|desrt> then i backported without looking
<dro|desrt> thinking that the bug was there all along.....
<dro|desrt> tl;dr: typesafe signal connections would sure be nice......
<larsu> yeah...
<dro|desrt> what's even funnier is that there have been half a dozen commits on top of the broken one
<dro|desrt> glad to see that i'm not the only one failing to check backports :p
 * larsu isnt
<dro|desrt> gonna test my revert first -- hold on while i jhbuild my way up :)
<dro|desrt> thanks for the catch
<larsu> np
<tkamppeter> seb128, I will do it.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<larsu> Laney: bah, this test fails upstream as well :/
<larsu> for a different ui file
<Laney> :(
<larsu> Laney: lol, it's the colorchooser one that doesn't seem to get executed on the builder because of the gsettings warning
<larsu> it also says FAIL there, so maybe that _is_ a problem
<Laney> oh yeah I see that one here too
<Laney> "widget not within a GtkWindow"
<larsu> I don't have that one
 * larsu ponders disabling the whole a11y test
<pitti> Laney, seb128: OOI, should http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/  work now? (wrt. the login failure we had on Malta)
<seb128> pitti, no, the change still didn't land
<Laney> the train is delayed
<seb128> I asked earlier today on ci-eng
<seb128> but ricmm and rsalveti just ignored my question
<pitti> ack, thanks
<seb128> I'm pondering just uploading the fix and let them sort out their silo
 * rsalveti is still behind irc
<seb128> rsalveti, hey ;-)
<seb128> pitti, is the gvfs/gphoto not handling ptp cameras anymore still on your todolist somewhere? just checking, no hurry but we need to get it fix for LTS .1 ... if you have too much to do that's fine, just let me know and I'm going to try to have a look by myself (it's just that you know the hwdb stuff better probably)
<pitti> seb128: it still works fine with my PowerShot on today's utopic
<dro|desrt> larsu: revert pushed
<dro|desrt> thanks
<pitti> seb128: can you put "udevadm info --export-db" into a pastebin with the camera connected? I can the compare with mine
<seb128> pitti, you happen to have one of the cameras that are properly tagged in the hwdb I guess ... is the fix to have tags for all the cameras that don't?
<larsu> dro|desrt: thanks
<larsu> dro|desrt: and thanks for testing ;)
<pitti> seb128: right, I have a generic PtP one; perhaps you have one which isn't covered by the "generic PtP device" rule, but a vendor/product ID match?
<pitti> E: GPHOTO2_DRIVER=PTP
<pitti> E: ID_GPHOTO2=1
<pitti> I have that on both the usb_device (N: bus/usb/002/011) and its usb_interface child
<pitti> seb128: ^ so I'm interested in how it looks for you, i. e. which of these two is the "important" one
<seb128> pitti, sorry, just got the camera, looking
<pitti> seb128: oh, actually I don't think we actually have a thing like "generic PtP device" rule
<seb128> pitti, I can't find the camera in the udevadm info log
<pitti> seb128: you can pastebin "lsusb" and the udevadm log, I can search it then
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/log
<pitti> seb128: so, I do have a matching entry in 20-libgphoto2-6.hwdb
<seb128> pitti, Bus 002 Device 007: ID 04cb:026c Fuji Photo Film Co., Ltd
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/7623970/
<pitti> seb128: thanks, so /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.3/2-1.3:1.0
<seb128> pitti, that's the gphoto --summary
<pitti> seb128: err, did you unplug/replug or switch off/on? in your pasted log it's bus/usb/002/006
<pitti> PRODUCT=4cb/26c/100
<seb128> pitti, I did it once, sorry
<pitti> right, no entry for that in 20-libgphoto2-6.hwdb
<pitti> seb128: no worries
<seb128> pitti, new log at the same people url
<pitti> seb128: ISTR that there was some "generic PtP device" fallback; I have an idea, hang on
<pitti> seb128: ok, so in your udev the ID_GPHOTO2 is on the interface, but not the device
<pitti> so apparently it wants that
<seb128> pitti, http://sourceforge.net/p/gphoto/bugs/974/ might be useful there
<seb128> e.g http://sourceforge.net/p/gphoto/bugs/974/#61f8
<seb128> pitti, that got closed as something for "the udev guys"
<pitti> seb128: so, this is tricky; most hwdb entries seem to match on both device and interface, but the generic rule only matches on teh interface
<larsu> Laney: so there are a couple of commits that fix the color chooser and about dialog brokenness in that test. Do you think we need to backport those? I'm for disabling the test until then...
<Laney> larsu: are they easily backportable?
<Laney> on the 3.12 branch at least?
 * larsu checks
<larsu> ah no, they're on master
<larsu> there are some conflicts, but nothing major
<larsu> I can fix them and push the backports to 3.12 upstream
<larsu> (if we think this is important enough)
<Laney> if it's easy then I vote for that
<pitti> seb128: I followed up to the gnome and SF bugs
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the comment on the upstream bug, would 2) be a step back?
<seb128> like going back to use udev where hwdb should be used instead?
<pitti> seb128: no, not really; and in fact that's a rather simple fix for 14.04.1
<seb128> pitti, danke
<brookswarner> hey seb128
<seb128> brookswarner, hey
<brookswarner> howzit
<seb128> pitti, let's see what upstream says
<pitti> seb128: do we have an LP bug for SRUing and linking these two?
<seb128> pitti, bug #1296275
<ubot5> bug 1296275 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "PTP Cameras not working on 14.04, works flawlessly on 12.04" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296275
<seb128> ok, it's team meeting time
<didrocks> mvo: hey, would you know by any chance of a way to suppress stdout/stderr message in python-apt (or I'll dig in)? (meeting time, you can answer in mp if needed ;))
<seb128> Sweet5hark, Laney, tkamppeter, dro|desrt, attente, larsu, KombuchaKip, didrocks: hey, it's meeting time
<seb128> (no qengho this week, he's on jury duty)
<Sweet5hark> o/
<seb128> ok, let's get started with those who are there ;-)
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you start!
<Sweet5hark> - work on getting LO 4.3 beta on utopic
<Sweet5hark> - strange build and test failures on the buildd, but not in a local pbuilder
<Sweet5hark> - finally found the propable root cause: "dpkg-buildpackage" vs. "dpkg-buildpackage -B && dpkg-buildpackage -A"
<Sweet5hark> - german project weekend: preparation and execution https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/Projektwochenende
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<sil2100> didrocks: quick update - so it seems the utopic debootstrap chroot got b0rken somehow during all the migration, after re-creating it things started working fine o_O
<sil2100> didrocks: the trusty one was fine for instance
<sil2100> Just the utopic one had issues
<didrocks> sil2100: meeting time, but thanks for the head's up!
<Sweet5hark> (prolly lots of bits and pieces I already forgot)
<sil2100> Uh, sorry!
 * sil2100 apologizes and goes away
<seb128> Sweet5hark, you might need to chase somebody from the MIR team for 4.3 new build-depends ;-)
<seb128> (Rico was asking about that earlier)
<Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, for now I build with my own copies.
<seb128> k
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> I feel like I've moved up the list ...
<Laney> â¢ Updates
<Laney> â webkitgtk (fix FTBFS on armhf) rhythmbox fontconfig gsettings-desktop-schemas poppler lcms2 rhythmbox
<Laney> â¢ SRUs
<Laney> â webkitgtk fontconfig
<Laney> â¢ appdata-tools FTBFS fix
<Laney> â¢ patch piloting shift
<Laney> â¢ Push grilo MIR to enable these plugins in totem & rb
<Laney> â¢ Push argyll MIR (upload in Debian for packaging fix) to unblock colord, later obsoleted as we removed that requirement in Ubuntu for now.
<Laney> â¢ Test mesa nouveau hang fix patches from mlankhorst, still issues.
<Laney> â¢ DMB: chair meeting, push on some outstanding issues (one of which was getting Åukasz approved, now done!), work on fixing script to generate the flavour packagesets automatically & send to DMB for comments.
<Laney> â¢ gtk 3.12 testing, work on some of the failures
<Laney> â¢ Push colord transition, now blocked on gtk
<Laney> â¢ Arrange travel & accommodation for debconf
<Laney> â¢ u-s-s: review split greeter background fixes
<Laney> â
<seb128> Laney, you did, qengho is missing and mlankhorst moved to another team
<Laney> in foundations they shuffle the order each week :-)
<pitti> seb128: mind trying https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1296275/comments/43 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1296275 in libgphoto2 (Ubuntu Utopic) "PTP Cameras not working on 14.04, works flawlessly on 12.04" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> pitti, k, trying in a bit
<seb128> Laney, that wouldn't work, we have germans on team ... and desrt
<seb128> Laney, anyway, thanks ;-)
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.54 upstream: Especially added support for sGray, sRGB, and Adobe RGB color spaces (no color management yet), but also contains support for "no-color-management" option for printer calibration (from GSoC student Joseph Simon), and all PWG Raster work of the last days.
<tkamppeter> - ghostscript: Added PWG Raster output in the sGray, sRGB, and Adobe RGB color spaces (no color management yet).
<tkamppeter> - Mentoring of GSoC students
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> dro|desrt, hey, there for the summary or skipping it?
<larsu> sleeping? I saw him around fairly early today
<seb128> ok, let's assume he's not there
<seb128> attente, your turn
<attente> hi seb128, i was in iceland last week :)
<seb128> did you have fun there?
<Laney> did you do any ice climbing?
<attente> seb128: yes
<attente> Laney: no :(
<seb128> attente, thanks, I'm going to look this week at the merge requests you have waiting
<seb128> larsu, ok, your turn ;-)
<larsu> it was a short week for me as well (Friday was a swap day and yesterday a holiday)
<larsu> I tried to involve the notifications guys again to get rid of the new timeout hint
<larsu> wrote a patch for them and reverted their stuff, but no response so far
 * larsu will ping them gently tomorrow or so
<larsu> I did some code reviews for desrt
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Sure thing buddy.
<seb128> larsu, you got comments/replies
<larsu> seb128: when?
<seb128> well at least I read some this morning
<seb128> on the i-n use-standard-timeout mr
<larsu> ah. I checked earlier today but haven't gone through bugmail since then
<seb128> (you are not going to like the replies)
<larsu> I also started looking at theme updates, but got distracted with messaging menu questions and the gtk build
<larsu> the latter of which I'm trying to fix right now
<seb128> thanks for the GTK work
<larsu> by backporting some patches
<seb128> for those who didn't follow, 3.12 got uploaded to utopic
<larsu> might not be able to finish this before eod sadly (I need to run soon)
<seb128> it failed to build due to some tests issues though
<seb128> larsu, no worry
<dro|desrt> oops.  sorry :)
<larsu> I think Laney's right, let's fix them correctly and backport to 3.12 upstream
<larsu> </larsu>
 * dro|desrt was doing a on-paper analysis of mutexes
<larsu> seb128: ah, Wellark commented on the i-n one (which is irrelevant until the other one is in)
<seb128> larsu, thanks
 * larsu needs to talk to MacSlow
<seb128> larsu, I saw a comment from Mirco somewhere as well
<seb128> not sure on which one now though
<larsu> wtf is a "technical design decision"
<seb128> dro|desrt, no worry ... want to do your update now?
<dro|desrt> sure
<dro|desrt> mostly focused on glib performance improvements this week
<seb128> larsu, (I told you you wouldn't like it)
<Laney> hahaha
<dro|desrt> merged the atomic ops improvements, looked a bit into transactional memory (and determined that we can't really provide an API for it)
 * didrocks would propose that if people aren't there on time, their turn shift to the end :)
<dro|desrt> improved the performance of gmutex by quite a lot (~3-4 times faster in some made-up examples, and showing 20% improvements in some lock-heavy real-world cases, like gstreamer)
<seb128> nice!
<dro|desrt> i'm just now doing a really detailed analysis of the latest patch to make sure it's logically sound (no races, etc)
<seb128> didrocks, I was pondering putting him at this end because of the new nickname :p
<didrocks> seb128: ahah :)
<dro|desrt> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/108626/24049741/ for numbers, btw
<dro|desrt> also did some gobject stuff
<dro|desrt> we added a new flag to GParamSpec to reflect (almost universal) best practice of how setters should always emit notify signals (since the old days, g_object_set() emits this for itself -- even if nothing changed, which is annoying)
<dro|desrt> i also finally gave up on the restriction of adding properties after class_init (proved to be too hard to fix) and firmed up the restriction on adding interfaces (removing the exceptions for c++ and C#)
<dro|desrt> as well as merging those performance patches for G_IS_OBJECT() from last week...
<dro|desrt> ^D
<seb128> dro|desrt, thanks!
<seb128> KombuchaKip, hey, do you have any status update to share?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: Submitted another iteration of my Mozilla patch yesterday (BugzillaÂ #824909). Been away the last few weeks on leave otherwise. Also resuming work on GUI for managing ACL (LP# 1247782).
<seb128> how are those bugs doing? are you getting the fixes landing?
<KombuchaKip> seb128: The mozilla iteration I am waiting on upstream and the latter bug the ball is in my court and I am not done with my first revision.
<seb128> k
<seb128> KombuchaKip, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, your turn
<didrocks> Short week (4 days, Monday was off):
<didrocks> * Continued setting up and advancing the library part of Ubuntu Developer Tools Center. Now that the threaded downloadmanager is done, I'm starting on the apt manager.
<KombuchaKip> seb128: np
<didrocks> * CI is now up, testing framework is there with testrunner and running in virtualenv, installing some mock apt packages into that bootstrapped env.
<didrocks> * Some CI train and Landing team support
<didrocks> * Will continue next week on the apt support, multithreading, testing and so on while participating to some juju UOS sessions.
<brookswarner> kombuchakip - make sure your following up with upstream please to get that patch in
<KombuchaKip> brookswarner: I am.
<didrocks> (btw, thanks to mvo, the issue with forked stdout/stderr is just fixed!)
 * mvo hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs mvo back
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> ok, my turn I guess
<seb128> 4 days only this week as well
<seb128> worked mostly on SRUs, some utopic merges, u-s-s reviews & landing
<seb128> tested/uploaded gtk 3.12, screwed up test run before upload, need to get that sorted out next
<seb128> (thanks Laney and larsu who are working on it)
<seb128> some more playing with unity8-desktop, back to working in utopic with the new lightdm, thanks robert_ancell
<seb128> </week
<seb128> need to go to a UOS session now about unity8 btw
<Laney> looks like some kind of technical problem with the hangout
<rickspencer3> arg
<seb128> so I guess it's a wrap
<seb128> thanks everyone
<seb128> Laney, yeah, neither mterry nor bregma nor me are about to start a live session
<seb128> we get an error telling us to contact our administrator
<Laney> lots of weird restrictions on those google accounts
<mterry> dholbach is trying right now
<didrocks> thanks guys!
<bregma> ah, let the professionals do their job
<Estilanda> me!
<Estilanda> how!
<Estilanda> can you please pass me the final header design please? with the right icons and stuff
<Estilanda> the ones that were approved in Mlata
<didrocks> Estilanda: hey, I guess you need to ping designers directly, like JohnLea
<Estilanda> oh, thanks! Wrong window :) Thanks!
<seb128> pitti, bug report already got some happy users, thanks again for the fix ;-)
<chrisccoulson> qengho, around? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he's on jury duties this week, he said he would do some work in the evening but maybe not be on IRC a lot, maybe try emails
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, thanks
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> and with that threaded apt manager done, I'll continue a little bit off, bit I'm signing off now! See you guys :)
 * Laney wonders what you're coding
 * Laney is off too
<Laney> bye!
<seb128> Laney, night
<seb128> pitti, do you think you could have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator/+bug/1294877 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1294877 in OEM Priority Project "usb-creator fails to wipe usb device when the device has ext4 partition" [Undecided,Triaged]
<crhrabal> Emacs or Vim?
<ogra_> ultraedit !
<crhrabal> yay I love spending money on text editors!
<dro|desrt> gedit!
<dro|desrt> (but seriously.... vim)
<pmcgowan> has anyone built system-settings using an schroot and sbuild?
<pmcgowan> Laney, ^^ seems you have
<pmcgowan> I'm getting issues resolving deps
<seb128> pmcgowan, what issues? Laney is probably eod, though he might walk back by the computer, who knows
<pmcgowan> hey
<pmcgowan> am getting unmet dependencies doing get of build-dep in the chroot
<pmcgowan> none of the specific amrhf deps will install
<seb128> can you pastebin the exact error/the log?
<seb128> is that trying to crossbuild?
<pmcgowan> yes
<pmcgowan> I tried using sbuild earlier, not doing directly in the chroot to get the deps, both had same problem
<pmcgowan> seb128, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7625153/
<seb128> if it's on utopic it's likely that some depends has a multiarch issue, that happens regularly...
<pmcgowan> ah
<pmcgowan> it is utopic
<seb128> xnox might know/be able to help there
<pmcgowan> thats a lot of packages though
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it might boil down to one buggy one and have that list hitting the same issue
<seb128>                     Depends: libc6-dev:armhf but it is not going to be installed or
<seb128> that seems weird
<pmcgowan> yeah
<pmcgowan> just doing what the wiki says to make the chroot
<pmcgowan> maybe I should try trusty base
<seb128> right, that's likely a multiarch issue on utopic
<seb128> that's one of the things we don't test well and often hits issues
<pmcgowan> i see, so maybe its not me afterall
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-11
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<didrocks> pitti: hey! courir Ã  7h, c'est difficile :)
<mvo> pitti: good morning! thanks for the jenkins forward, I saw it last night, working on the fix right now .)
 * didrocks has a sad face due to mvo :p
<didrocks> hey mvo!
<mvo> didrocks: ohhhhh? what happend?
<didrocks> mvo: you pushed some code! and thus, you broke me: https://travis-ci.org/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center ;)
<didrocks> python/pkgsrcrecords.cc:91:58: error: âclass pkgSrcRecordsâ has no member named âStepâ
<didrocks> which is exactly what your commit yesterday was :)
<mvo> didrocks: yeah, it needs the latest apt from utopic
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> but this box is on precise
<didrocks> I wonder if I can tell pip to branch from a tag or commit rev
<mvo> didrocks: so time to figure out how to pip build a specific tag I guess :)
<didrocks> mvo: hehe, we agree it seems :)
<didrocks> if not, I'll have to bzr branch somewhere
<didrocks> (you don't have a release branch, right?)
<mvo> didrocks: just the debian/sid branch
<mvo> didrocks: but that should be tags for each release
<didrocks> yeah, I saw a way to due it with pip + vcs
<didrocks> do*
<didrocks> not yet for bzr, have to look a little bit more
<didrocks> hum, seems the @ can work there
<mvo> didrocks: yeah, looks like this is what you want https://coderwall.com/p/-wbo5q
<didrocks> mvo: right, I was puzzled yesterday and didn't dig more because I tried /trunk@tagâ¦
<didrocks> seems you need /trunk/@tag
<didrocks> for bzr
<mvo> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> $ env/bin/pip install -e bzr+lp:python-apt/@0.9.3.5#egg=apt
<didrocks> Obtaining apt from bzr+lp:python-apt/@0.9.3.5#egg=apt
<didrocks>   Checking out lp:python-apt/ (to revision 0.9.3.5) to ./env/src/apt
<didrocks> works \o/
<mvo> didrocks: I guess a alternative would be to make python-apt more clever and add a  configure style test, but its python setuptools so that is not trivial (unfortunately)
<mvo> well, maybe it is
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, I spent a day again recently on setuptoolsâ¦ not that fun :)
 * didrocks pushes to unbreak Travis
<didrocks> mvo: oh btw, remember that my home server was down? It wasn't anything which broke in software like mysql or whatever. It was the SD card which went down
 * didrocks did the switch this week-end with a new one and put /var/log on tmpfs
<sarnold> didrocks: out of curiosity, was that a pandaboard? :)
<didrocks> sarnold: no, but similar, a raspberry :)
<sarnold> didrocks: ah :)
<sarnold> didrocks: I spent a few months with a pandaboard that would wedge from time to time, and eventually irssi would refuse to start no matter how many reboots I tried. I hadn't realized sd cards were so fragile..
<sarnold> cripes, mysql on a raspberry? how'd it work? :)
<didrocks> sarnold: yeah, mostly it's /var/log in my case as it's a webserver (didrocks.fr)
<didrocks> sarnold: the website and mysql are on usb drives :)
<sarnold> didrocks: ahhhh. that'd help.
<didrocks> yeah, not *that* crazy :)
<mvo> didrocks: I don't want you to have a sad face: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7627300/ - configure for poor people
<mvo> (like me)
<didrocks> mvo: looks excellent nice trick :) (even if it can see being twisted to generate a config.h from setup.py, I think it's way easier compare to what we can achieve directly with setuptools)
<mvo> didrocks: oh, I wasn't aware that it supports this kind of tests
<didrocks> mvo: there was something I found the other day, I'll give it a look again later, but it wasn't as readable as what you did IIRC
<mvo> didrocks: if you can point me to it, I'm happy to have a look - I wait for adt test runs to finish on my local machine, so I have some time :/
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! je suis retour de courier; c'Ã©tait plus facile aujourd'hui, il a plu cette nuit
<pitti> mvo: guten Morgen! danke
<didrocks> mvo: it was with https://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#configuration-file-options and what setopt was doing
<didrocks> mvo: and the feature class: https://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/src/f4170897eb2c/setuptools/dist.py#cl-664
<didrocks> (from what I read, Tarek move it from distribute to setuptools)
<didrocks> pitti: quelle chance! ici, il a plu, mais bon, il fait toujours chaudâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: ici aussi :)
<mvo> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> mvo: yw, keep me posted if you find anything interesting!
<mvo> didrocks: will do
<mvo> pitti: sorry for bothering you, but when i do lxc-ls I can see my utopic container, but when I run adt-run --- adt-virt-lxc utopic it complains that "Error: container utopic is not defined". that seems to be coming from lxc-clone -o utopic. have you seen that before?
<pitti> mvo: yes, that's trying to use per-user containers as you don't run the thing as root
<pitti> mvo: you usually want --- lxc -es utopic
<pitti> mvo: you usually want --- lxc -es adt-utopic
<mvo> pitti: oh, silly me, thanks! that does the trick
<pitti> mvo: -s -> run lxc commands through sudo, -e -> use ephemeral overlays (much much faster)
<pitti> mvo: if you use adt-build-lxc, the name is "adt-<release>", not just <release>
<mvo> cool, thanks a bunch
<pitti> mvo: gern :)
<didrocks> mvo: do you have a mock python-apt instance? (or using it to open my own fake dpkg installation where I can set a state, install pkgs and so on?)
<didrocks> seems you are using some kinds of         repo_path = os.path.abspath("./data/test-repo")
<didrocks> in the python-apt tests
<mvo> didrocks: *cough* yeah, the tests need to run in the tests dir, thats silly
<pitti> didrocks: apt.Cache(rootdir=chroot.path) is really nice for that
<mvo> didrocks: you can setup the cache with a alternative rootdir, if you then set dir::bin::dpkg to point to a shell wrapper that will work
<mvo> didrocks: the shell wrapper needs to set --force-not-root --force-bad-path --root=your-new-rootdir
<mvo> didrocks: and then you can even install into this alternative rootdir
<didrocks> and the rootdir needs to contains a Packages.gz for an archive state?
<mvo> didrocks: well, depends on how far you want to go, you can only include etc/apt/sources.list and call cache.update() so that it gets it itself
<mvo> didrocks: or you can provide static data
<mvo> didrocks: in var/lib/apt/lists/foo_Packages
<didrocks> mvo: pitti: thanks! I guess that's the info I needed :) I'll work on that today to have what I need under tests :)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> didrocks, lut!
<pitti> bonojur seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut! Ã§a va ?
<Laney> hey hey
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you?
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien ! j'ai couru tous les matins cette semaine, avant qu'il fait chaud :)
<pitti> hey Laney, good morning
<pitti> seb128: et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, tu es comme Didier ;-)
<seb128> je viens de me lever moi !
<pitti> seb128: je ne peux pas aller Ã  Taekwondo aujourd'hui, Ã  cause de USO
<pitti> UOS
<seb128> tu as une session qui t'intÃ©resse ce soir ?
<pitti> seb128: pas une, deux Ã  meme temps..
<Laney> hey seb128 & pitti
<pitti> langpacks for touch and systemd for servers
<Laney> I'm doing good thanks!
<Laney> seems it's not as warm here as it is for you guys ...
<didrocks> seb128: j'ai aussi couru pour info (Ã  6h50)
<didrocks> c'Ã©tait difficile par contre ce matinâ¦ le corps n'Ã©tait pas rÃ©veillÃ© :)
<didrocks> Laney: well, it's "only" 31 today \o/
<Laney> nice...
<Laney> is that "shut all of the blinds"?
<didrocks> I don't, I don't like darkness :)
<didrocks> already, shut all windows
<didrocks> stay on the north side
<didrocks> and suffer
<Laney> work from the cold shower
<didrocks> I would really like a water proof laptop and work from a swimming pool
<didrocks> *that* would be life!
<Laney> expenses time!
<pitti> didrocks: my wife has a Toughbook for work, that might do :)
 * didrocks files one
<ogra_> you can have your rain back if you want !
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, yeah! I don't see the water proof part though :)
<ogra_> and that golfball sized hail
<didrocks> ogra_: waow, any damage?
<ogra_> nope, luckily not
<ogra_> we have a large glass brick wall (4x3m) ... it was like a concert having the hail hammer it
<Laney> don't want to be outside in that...
<ogra_> astonishingly nothing broke, even the solar panel on the roof is still fine
<Laney> seb128: pmcgowan: There's no dep problem with cross-building u-s-s for armhf that I can see
<Laney> it doesn't build though, but for another reason
<Laney> /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libapt-pkg.so: undefined reference to `std::__throw_out_of_range_fmt(char const*, ...)@GLIBCXX_3.4.20'
<Laney> this reason
<Laney> say what
<seb128> Laney, hum, abi change somewhere?
<seb128> didrocks, 6h50, Ã§a pique les yeux !
<pitti> seb128: non, c'est un bon temps, dans l'Ã©tÃ© :)
<pitti> Laney: in case it happened recently: seems we recently switched the default g++ compiler from 4.8 to 4.9? at least my dist-upgrade this morning brought this in, and marked 4.8 for auto-removal
<Laney> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Feb 26 14:21 /usr/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-g++ -> arm-linux-gnueabihf-g++-4.8
<Laney> I think the cross building defaults are done separately
<didrocks> seb128: ouai, c'est ce que je me suis dit :)
<seb128> larsu, Laney: did you get anywhere with the GTK build?
<larsu> seb128: working on it right now
<larsu> trying to find commits to backport from master
<larsu> Laney: I'm having trouble with the gcc 4.9 update, maybe that's related?
<larsu> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/gcc-doc_4%3a4.9.0-3ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):
<larsu> ah, install-info is missing the --dir-file parameter
<Laney> hm?
<larsu> install-info: No dir file specified; try --help for more information.
<Laney> you get that when upgrading?
<larsu> yes
<Laney> ddddddooooooooookkkkkkoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<larsu> postinst has the install-info lines, but they're missing that param
<larsu> haha
<Laney> oh yeah, me too!
<larsu> unrelated to your issue of course (now that I've had an actual look at it)
<Laney> actually mine is different, that's weird
<Laney> Error in `/usr/share/doc-base/gcc-4.9-itm', line 29: format `html' already defined.
<larsu> for the same package?
<Laney> gcc-doc
<larsu> right
<Laney> There must be at least one such a section. If there are more, each of them must register files in different formats (e.g. having two Format: HTML sections in one control file is not allowed).
<Laney> dear oh dear
<Laney> ah yes, if I fix that then I see your error
<Laney> okay, building u-s-s without proposed works
<larsu> I wonder why I don't get that one
 * Laney suspects the new apt
<seb128> mvo !!!
<Laney> let me check this theory first :P
<seb128> Laney, do you know if sbuild complaining about "grep: debian/control: No such file or directory" a standard gotcha or something
<Laney> never seen that
<Laney> how did you get it?
<seb128> sbuild -d utopic --host armhd ubuntu-system-settings*.dsc
<seb128> hf
<seb128> (sorry typing from another box)
<Laney> did you build the chroot right?
<Laney> I think you can get No such file or directory if you try to execute wrong-architecture binaries
<Laney> mk-sbuild utopic --target=armhf
<seb128> I created it using "mk-sbuild --target=armhf --skip-proposed utopic"
 * Laney tries
<Laney> also yes, it does build with downgraded apt
<seb128> Laney, is sbuild logging somewhere?
<seb128> in fact it does "E: Core build dependencies not satisfied; skipping"
<Laney> it makes a .build file in the current directory
<Laney> I just made a new chroot and it seems to be working for me
<Laney> yeah it built
<Laney> that doesn't let me be very helpful, sorry
<seb128> Laney, do you see what's wrong in http://paste.ubuntu.com/7627690/ ?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> Please generate a key with 'sbuild-update --keygen'
<seb128> Laney, thanks, that seems to work
<seb128> shrug, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CrossCompile could mention it
<seb128> or is the "Note - you may want to use -n to disable sbuild's automatic build log email feature which is enabled by default" the suggested workaround for that issue?
<Laney> let's make it so
<Laney> no
<Laney> there we go
<seb128> Laney, should I just add $ sbuild-update --keygen to the first section there?
<Laney> I did it ;-)
<seb128> thanks ;-)
 * seb128 does the same to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CrossBuilding
<mvo> seb128: hm, what failed? Laney do you have the full output of the failed gcc-doc?
<seb128> mvo, <Laney> /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libapt-pkg.so: undefined reference to `std::__throw_out_of_range_fmt(char const*, ...)@GLIBCXX_3.4.20'
<Laney> mvo: don't worry about gcc-doc, that was a separate problem
<Laney> mvo: just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1328838
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1328838 in apt (Ubuntu) "Can't x-build ubuntu-system-settings with 1.0.4ubuntu1: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libapt-pkg.so: undefined reference to `std::__throw_out_of_range_fmt(char const*, ...)@GLIBCXX_3.4.20'" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> seb128: eehhh
<mvo> seb128: no idea right now, can check after lunch
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> could be a doko issue...
<mvo> pitti: for the click autopkgtests I assume I should do the same as I do for apt, i.e. run against the installed click instead of the build tree click (or would it make sense to run against both?)
<pitti> mvo: right, against installed click; you can run the tests against the built click during package build, there's little need to repeat them in autopkgtest
<pitti> mvo: also, for autopkgtest you often don't need to run the entire upstream test suite; it's usually enough to exercise some "smoke test", i. e. make sure you can build and install some click package
<mvo> pitti: the integration tests are pretty heavyweight currently as they build a full click buld chroot
<pitti> ah
<pitti> mvo: and you don't want to do that during pacakge build then, I suppose?
<mvo> pitti: yeah
<mvo> pitti: it will take forever on a slow arch
<mvo> pitti: the unittests are run of course
<pitti> mvo: right, so run them against the installed click in autopkgtest (but notice that we also run the autopkgtests on armhf)
<mvo> pitti: ok, will do
<mvo> pitti: thanks for your help :)
<pitti> gern!
<seb128> pitti, hey, did you see my ping about that udisk bug yesterday? do you think it's something you might have cycle to look at? (just asking, if you don't that's fine, we just need to find somebody to look at it then)
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/oem-priority/+bug/1294877
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1294877 in OEM Priority Project "usb-creator fails to wipe usb device when the device has ext4 partition" [Undecided,Triaged]
<pitti> seb128: yes, I did (and I also saw it in bug mail); not my top priority right now, but I suppose I can get to it in the next weeks
<seb128> pitti, ok, if you start looking at it, please let me know ... I'm going to do the same if we do work on it
<pitti> seb128: will do, thanks
<seb128> pitti, ara pinged about it, it's making the recovery-media-creation tool, used on oobe pre-installed system, bug for quite some users
<seb128> so it's on the LTS .1 tofix list
<tseliot> seb128: hey, I can't find the new unity-settings-daemon in trusty. How's the SRU going?
<seb128> tseliot, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=unity-settings-daemon
<seb128> tseliot, you might want to gently ask the SRU team about getting it reviewed from the queue ;-)
<seb128> tseliot, having it accepted would let us free the silo as well, which would be welcome
<tseliot> seb128: oh, ok, I thought you'd deal with that too
<seb128> well "deal with that"
<seb128> I can ping them
<seb128> I'm not in the SRU team myself, so I can't review/approve it
<tseliot> seb128: somehow I thought you were part of that team. If you could ping them for me, that would be very welcome
<Laney> tjaalton: did you see my q about weston yesterday?
<seb128> tseliot, k
<tseliot> seb128: thanks
<Laney> tjaalton: ah sorry, just saw your /away
<didrocks> phew, finally got some start of the apt test env in the chroot I need :)
<seb128> didrocks, did you fix your issue with the new python-apt version?
<didrocks> seb128: oh yeah, quite early in the morning even :)
<seb128> nice
<didrocks> mvo: based on what you told me this morning, shouldn't apt.apt_pkg.config.set("Dir::Bin::dpkg", "/usr/bin/dpkg2") should fail cache.commit() as it doesn't exist?
<didrocks> I wonder why cache.commit() returns true even if the stdout is: debconf: DbDriver "passwords" warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission non accordÃ©e
<didrocks> (permission denied)
<didrocks> so maybe it never goes to execute dpkg?
<mvo> didrocks: thats a red-herring
<mvo> didrocks: with dir::bin::dpkg change it should fail, does it not do that?
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, same output and "True"
<didrocks> mvo: and it can't install it anyway, I'm not root in that ipython
<didrocks> mvo: do you know where you have those kinds of tests? Maybe basing on that, I'll be able to see what I'm doing wrong or missing
<didrocks> (python-apt doesn't have test overriding dpkg binary)
<mvo> didrocks: https://github.com/mvo5/apt/blob/debian/sid/test/integration/framework#L124
<mvo> didrocks: but if you point me to the code you have I can poke around too
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, that's some shell scripts, let me try to give you a minimal test you can play with, one sec
<didrocks> mvo: here is a simple gist: https://gist.github.com/didrocks/afc625607feab0432e4e
<didrocks> it can't install the package because: /usr/bin/dpkg2 doesn't exist (nor the deb)
<mvo> didrocks: thanks, I get to it in some minutes, still wrestling with adt, I got distracted by the fact that the unittests fail badly in there and I tried to figure out why, I suspected that LD_PRELOAD is problematic but I can't see anything in adt-run that would prevent it
<mvo> (LD_PRELOAD is used in the tests to mock certain libc/libclick symbols)
<didrocks> mvo: it wouldn't be the first time (even not at canonical/ubuntu) that I hear about LD_PRELOAD puzzling devs for some tests failing :) good luck!
<mvo> didrocks: its just hard to debug, oh well
<xnox> mvo: hm, i thought eatmydata is ldpreloaded when running tests, or maybe i am wrong. Let me check.
<mvo> xnox: yeah, that used to be the case, not sure if it still is
<dro|desrt> saluton, amikoj!
<xnox> seb128: porce #ubuntu-desktop sessao Espanol?
<xnox> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1406-unity8-desktop-preview-image
<xnox> seb128: hm looks like somebody translated it.
<didrocks> funny :)
<seb128> xnox, wth?
<seb128> xnox, seems it was done in http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uos-1406-unity8-desktop-preview-image/rev.309
<xnox> seb128: scrolling through history "unnamed participants" translated it all
<seb128> or 308 even
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> yeah, 308, "unamed
<didrocks> "
<didrocks> at least, it's easy to revert (I was going to do that)
<xnox> seb128: yeah, i've revert it now.
<xnox> (well added english back in)
<seb128> well, I copied the workitems to the blueprint
<seb128> so I don't care much about the notes
<Laney> haha
<tjaalton> Laney: yeah go wild wild weston :)
<xnox> not sure if we need to check other etherpads for portugeese.
<Laney> tjaalton: thanks, already did it ;-)
<ogra_> seb128, time to expense a spanish class :)
<tjaalton> Laney: cool
<seb128> lol
 * xnox ponders if google translate did it!
<pmcgowan> seb128, so my deps problem resolved itself but I saw there were issues with ftbfs
<xnox> seb128: lol, google translate did it
<seb128> xnox, google!
<seb128> pmcgowan, there is an issue with libapt today it seems
<Laney> you can build it without utopic-proposed
 * Laney has been doing just that for the MP that just went up
<seb128> yeah, I cross built earlier today (using utopic without proposed enabled) and it worked
 * dro|desrt eyes clang, suspiciously
 * dro|desrt is a big fan of compilers that claim to be other compilers but don't implement their features
<larsu> hm? Because clang uses gcc's command line syntax?
<dro|desrt> more like because it defines __GNUC__
<larsu> oh.
<larsu> morning dro|desrt :)
<dro|desrt> my atomic improvements broke clang :(
<larsu> is anyone using that in production?
<larsu> oh, osx I guess
<dro|desrt> freebsd 10 as well
 * dro|desrt got a bug filed this morning
<dro|desrt> (regular jhbuilding doing its job...)
<didrocks> mvo: after a break on other things, I retried to have a look, seems like pkg.marked_install is always False, even after the mark_install() call, so maybe the first issue is that? (and so commit() would be almost a no-op, hence the no failure)
<mvo> didrocks: hm, you can set apt_pkg.config.set("Debug::pkgProblemResolver", "1") to see why this is
<mvo> didrocks: sounds like some dependency that can not be installed maybe?
<didrocks> mvo: oh, that would be possible
<didrocks> mvo: however, mark_install(), even with the pkgProblemResolver set doesn't return anything
 * didrocks reloads the cache
 * didrocks tries with a simplier fake repo, with a couple of packages
<didrocks> which are all installable
<mvo> didrocks: you made me clone it now
<didrocks> mvo: no no, concentrate on your adt tests, I didn't want to annoy you (yet ;))
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, STOPPPP! it was because of the deps of my mock (abrowser)
<didrocks> mvo: weird that mark_install() doesn't say a thing and that commit() returns True
<mvo> didrocks: *cough* api sucks
<mvo> didrocks: it should probalby return false or raise if it can not be installed
<mvo> didrocks: tests are postponed for now btw
<mvo> didrocks: well, I made them work
<didrocks> mvo: right, I would have expected mark_install() to raise or return False
<didrocks> I understand that for "commit()" there is nothing to do then :)
<didrocks> ok, so now that it uses my wrapper, next step, seems it wants "var/lib/dpkg/available"
 * didrocks fulfills one by one all requirements :)
<mvo> didrocks: silly dpkg
<mvo> ;)
<mvo> didrocks: hm, we currently always return None, so returning true/false shouldn't be too terrible API wise
<didrocks> mvo: ah, that would be nice, as I think it's as that moment that we can take the best counter-solution
 * didrocks creates all files and directories one by one for this poor dpkg :)
<didrocks> ah, interesting error this time:
<didrocks> dpkg: error processing archive /home/didrocks/work/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/tests/data/apt/testpackage2_0.0.1_all.deb (--install):
<didrocks>  error setting ownership of `/tmp/root/usr.dpkg-new': Operation not permitted
<mvo> didrocks: fakeroot
<mvo> didrocks: does that help?
<didrocks> mvo: indeed
<didrocks> so --force-not-root isn't enough
<didrocks> but at least, installing and removing through apt in the chroot works now :)
 * didrocks puts all the directories and file creation recipe in setUp()
<larsu> seb128, Laney: pushed gtk 3.12 test fixes to lp:~larsu/gtk/3-12-test-fixes (sorry it took so long)
<larsu> ah wait, that one patch doesn't apply
 * larsu should wait until building the package before announcing stuff
<seb128> larsu, waiting ;-)
<larsu> hm, this change must be introduced by an earlier patch...
 * larsu quilts
 * larsu slaps himself
<seb128> larsu, what was it?
<larsu> seb128: the one patch I added needs to be a revert, but wasnt
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> speaking of which, it would be cool if there was a "revert diff" tool
<seb128> (mentioning it in case somebody knows of one ;-)
<larsu> patch -R?
<Laney> interdiff diff /dev/null
<seb128> larsu, patch -R works to apply a reversed patch, not to add it to a quilt serie
<seb128> you need to apply then diff manually
<seb128> Laney, thanks
 * seb128 tries
<larsu> right, I do it in a vcs checkout
<larsu> and do a diff after
<seb128> right
<seb128> which I usually do
<larsu> could also use git revert, which does the same thing
<seb128> but it's a few steps
 * seb128 notes the interdiff tip from Laney
<larsu> and all of a sudden, bzr bd doesn't want to build anymore
<larsu> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: dpkg-dev (>= 1.16.0)
<larsu> this worked 5 minutes ago
 * larsu pushes anyway for Laney and seb128 to have a look
<seb128> larsu, did you uninstall anything?
<seb128> dpkg -l | grep dpkg-dev
<larsu> iU dpkg-dev
<larsu> I didn't install or uninstall anything - and I can't right now because of the gcc-doc failure
<seb128> k
<seb128> well, it's Uinstalled
<seb128> it was just failing before hitting the build-depends check before, because the patch was not applying
<larsu> doesn't it usually print what patches it tries to apply?
<larsu> anyhow, please have a look at the branch when you have time
<seb128> it does, but at the build time
<seb128> not when preparing the source iirc
<seb128> it's prepare the source (which failed before because patch didn't apply)
<seb128> check build-depends
<seb128> build
<larsu> okay
<seb128> Laney, there? can you throw that to your sbuild?
<larsu> any news on the gcc-doc thing?
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-defaults/1.128ubuntu2
<seb128> larsu, it's published, you might want to refresh/retry
<larsu> just did, same issue
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> well it might be that you need manually hacking around
<Laney> did you get the new one?
<seb128> if it hits issues with the old version
<seb128> like in the prerm of the installed one
<larsu> Laney: trying to find out, but the version of gcc-doc seems different from the gcc-defaults one?!
<seb128> larsu, can you pastebin the log of your error?
 * larsu cleans the cache just in case
<larsu> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7628968/
<larsu> ah, the old script crashes but it doesn't try the new one since there isn't one
<larsu> this is an interesting case
<seb128> larsu, try to sudo rm /lib/dpkg/info/gcc-doc.prerm
<larsu> there's no lib/dpkg
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> larsu, /var/lib/dpkg/info
<larsu> yep
<larsu> seb128: thansk!
<seb128> larsu, worked?
<larsu> yes
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> larsu, and now you know why people want system-image updates ;-)
<seb128> Laney, can you test build lp:~larsu/gtk/3-12-test-fixes ?
<Laney> ok
<seb128> Laney, I don't have a clean utopic chroot
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> seb128: ya
<larsu> it did work for Laney in the chroot before, no?
<Laney> no
<larsu> ah okay
<larsu> good :)
<Laney> only when the tests were accidentally disabled
<Laney> you went for the disabling tests route?
<larsu> yes, but not the full dump-a11y test, only the offending ones
<larsu> I spent some time trying to untangle the fixes, but it was close to impossible
<Laney> okay
<larsu> some widgets only got updated after 3.12, but the test fixes for those were in the same patches
<Laney> shouldn't the revert be a part of your other patch which makes the change?
<Laney> you want it in the patches submitted upstream I think
<larsu> hm, good point
<Laney> or the test should ensure the setting is true
<larsu> it does
<Laney> why does it fail then?
<larsu> I guess it simply didn't work at all
<Laney> or you changed something for the true case too maybe
<larsu> I'll put the reverts in the patches, but I need to change location first. will be back in 10 minutes or so
<Laney> this is okay for distro
<Laney> but I think you want the upstream bug to have it too one way or another
<Laney> seb128: this builds
<larsu> Laney: not sure tbh - nobody seems to have cared about the tests until now
<seb128> Laney, let's ship it!
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<seb128> Laney, did you want to do the upload or should I?
<Laney> i can
<seb128> ok, thanks
<Laney> larsu: that sounds concerning
<seb128> I'm going to let you do it, since you seem to have changes to do in mind
<Laney> don't they get run in continuous or something?
<seb128> it's going to be easier than me trying to understand what's the status of the discussion between you and larsu
<larsu> Laney: ah wait, the tests only fail on unity,n o?
<Laney> no
<Laney> there's no unity inside the build chroot
<larsu> okay, then nobody noticed?! this is on the 3.12 branch
<larsu> not sure if that has continuous testing
<Laney> strange
<Laney> larsu: http://paste.debian.net/104486/ I was getting at something like this
<Laney> or maybe check both true and false with 2 and 1 respectively
<Laney> uploaded, btw
<larsu> Laney: ah, right. This would mirror the code in a11y-dump.c
<larsu> ya, I'll add that to the patch
<Laney> that kind of thing
<Laney> yep
<larsu> still, the colorchooser is broken upstream. I'm preparing a patch myself now instead of trying to backport it from master (becasue of the untabgling problem I talked baout earlier)
<Laney> yep
<Laney> three breakages, this is only for one of them
<seb128> Laney, larsu: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.12.2-0ubuntu2 ... GTK build is happy!
<larsu> yay
<didrocks> mvo_: ok, now that I can play with "weird" states, I can see that for instance, if dpkg returns 1, error() from InstallProgress isn't called, but finish_update() still is (even if you raised an exception around commit()â¦ Not sure if that's wanted.
<seb128> charles, tedg: we can discuss it there if you prefer, less noisy
<seb128> tedg, "logout" is well hidden to start, since indicator-session has no icon in the panel, then it doesn't work...
<charles> heh
<charles> that's not the first time indicator-session's lost its icon :/
<seb128> charles, it's under unity8, I never saw it there I think
<charles> so the real test would be to see if indictor-session -> logout works under unity8
<charles> since it's not, the next test would be
<charles> to watch dbus and see what indicator-session is calling when Logout gets clicked
<seb128> charles, tedg: https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/logout/+merge/216373 didn't land
<seb128> I would think it's a pre-require?
<charles> seb128, that'll need to land in order for logout to work property, yes
<seb128> ok, so that explains why it doesn't work
<charles> ya
<tedg> charles, Should we just wait and silo these together?
<seb128> tedg, you were wrong saying that it should work on stock utopic it seems
<tedg> Yeah, I didn't realize that hadn't landed.
<charles> if com.canonical.Unity.Session isn't sitting on the bus, indicator-session will fall back to making the gnome logout call
<seb128> it would make sense to silo them together
<seb128> though we can as well land indicator-session now it if creates no new issue
<charles> it doesn't create any new issue
<charles> but we won't know that it works until the two patches are tested together
<seb128> right, there is little point landing it
<seb128> out of the freeing that silo
<charles> well, there is that
<charles> I don't mind either way
<tedg> I'm happy either way. Like getting the MR queue down, it's kinda dead code.
<tedg> (today)
<seb128> tedg, the only issue is that it might have bugs, but we are not going to know until we have unity8 to test
<seb128> but then we add a bugfix mr to the unity8 landing if that's the case
<tedg> Yup, it's pretty straight forward on our side. I wouldnt' expect too many bugs, but you never know until you can test it.
<tedg> Integration is hard :-)
<seb128> tedg, so what do you want to do? land it or clear it?
<charles> let's see what timeframe paulliu is looking at for ux-gnueabihf/libQt5Core.so.5.2.1
<charles> cd /tmp/buildd/unity8-7.88+14.10.20140606bzr849pkg0utopic212/obj-arm-linux-gnueabihf/tests/mocks/liblightdm/single-passphrase && /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_symlink_library liblightdm-qt5-3.so.0 liblightdm-qt5-3.so.0 liblightdm-qt5-3.so
<charles> make[4]: Leaving directory '/tmp/buildd/unity8-7.88+14.10.20140606bzr849pkg0utopic212/obj-arm-linux-gnueabihf'
<charles> /usr/bin/cmake -E cmake_progress_report /tmp/buildd/unity8-7.88+14.10.20140606bzr849pkg0utopic212/obj-arm-linux-gnueabihf/CMakeFiles  35
<charles> Built target MockLightDM-single-passphrase
<charles> make[3]: Leaving directory '/tmp/buildd/unity8-7.88+14.10.20140606bzr849pkg0utopic212/obj-arm-linux-gnueabihf'
<charles> Makefile:126: recipe for target 'all' failed
<tedg> Heh
<charles> gah, sorry. I was cleaning my clipboard and it went off
<charles> let's see what timeframe paulliu is looking at for his MR
<tedg> Pinged in #ubuntu-unity
<seb128> thanks
<mvo_> didrocks: uh, that sounds wrong
<didrocks> mvo_: ok, I'm not *that* crazy then :)
<mvo_> didrocks: it might be a artifact or a bug
<mvo_> didrocks: is your code somewhere?
<mvo_> didrocks: I would like to have a look again
<mvo_> didrocks: oh, error() is only called when there is a dpkg error (like a error condition reported by dpkg)
<mvo_> didrocks: is that maybe misleading?
<didrocks> mvo_: oh sorry, didn't see your message (this windows was focused, so no notification)
<didrocks> mvo_: so, I just exit 1 in my dpkg wrapper and I don't see error() to be called
<didrocks> mvo_: I'll clean this up and give you a real test case tomorrow morning, does this work?
<mvo_> didrocks: aha, thats expected (but I agree that its a bit counter-intuitive)
<mvo_> didrocks: maybe the error() docstring needs to be clear that its about errors from packages :/
<mvo_> didrocks: but +1 for tomorrow, need to prepare a session
 * mvo_ waves
<didrocks> mvo_: should the update_done() still being called?
<didrocks> yeah, let's discuss that tomorrow :)
<didrocks> enjoy your session!
<Laney> seb128: nice, looks like it's blocking on aptdaemon test failure though
<Laney> which started with the new upload
<Laney> mmmmmvvvvvooooooooooooooooooo
<mvo_> Laney: *weeehhh*
 * Laney screams into the sky
<mvo_> Laney: sorry for that, I will look at it tomorrow morning
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what's the status of the webbrowser fix for unity8-desktop-mir sessions?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it was just mentioned in the session about desktop running clicks
 * tedg likes watching mvo read irc
<tedg> :-)
<mvo_> tedg: :) its this whole UOS is a bit confusing, but I feel like I should help the people watchng the video later when there is no live-irc to watch
<mvo_> in parallel
<tedg> mvo_, Yeah, in general the sessions happen in context of lots of stuff.
 * mvo_ nods
<tedg> mvo_, They might be interesting from an archaeological perspective someday :-)
<mvo_> lol
<mvo_> I'm sure I will enjoy watching myself (sorf-of) young in 20y time
<tedg> Heh. In a loop. On the holi-projector.
<seb128> tedg, rsalveti, charles: the recent indicator-datetime landing started recommending ubuntu-touch-sounds ... which is not described in the changelog, and an universe packages, which creates a component mismatch entry ... does one of you plan to handle the MIR for that source?
<seb128> (did that upload got reviewed by somebody with upload rights?)
<rsalveti> I did the landing, and the changelog describes the change to use a different alarm sound, but indeed not the new package
<rsalveti> but my mistake, forgot to check mir
<seb128> rsalveti, ignore the question about upload rights, so days I forget you are in that set ;-)
<seb128> rsalveti, ubuntu-touch-sounds isn't big, it might be fine to bring on the desktop ... was the recommends for touch, or?
<seb128> because touch doesn't use recommends
<seb128> so either we need to lower that to suggest and rely on the seed to install the sounds
<seb128> or we want to bring the sounds on the desktop as well and need to MIR it
<seb128> either way works...
<rsalveti> the package is already seeded
<rsalveti> guess the goal would then to use the same sound on desktop
<rsalveti> charles: ^
<rsalveti> not sure why the sounds are specific to touch
<seb128> well, that's a bit weird, that package only has ringtone and messages sound atm, I think we picked one of those for alarms because we don't have anything better yet
<rsalveti> they should just be part of the generic ubuntu sounds package
<charles> well, right now we're not playing sounds on desktkop at all
<charles> that will probably change as the convergence story comes together
<seb128> rsalveti, yeah, it's one of those pieces where it was easier to add a new source
<rsalveti> right, but this will be used by unity8-desktop
<seb128> the layout and licences are differents
<seb128> right, I expect unity8-desktop to seed it
<rsalveti> so I guess it might just be easier to MIR it
<seb128> k
<seb128> I can do that tomorrow if you want
<rsalveti> seb128: that would be lovely
<charles> seb128, thanks
<seb128> k, on my list
<seb128> rsalveti, charles: yw
<xnox> ** (unity-settings-daemon:2261): WARNING **: Ignoring unknown module 'org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.background'
<xnox> hm?
<seb128> weird indeed
<seb128> where do you have that?
<seb128> bbiab
<tedg> charles, Testing this indicator-power change is kinda a pain, trying to get rid of 20% battery to test the icon with youtube videos.
<charles> tedg, that's just one of the burdens you have to shoulder
 * charles wonders if there's an app out there deliberately built to burn cycles
<charles> (besides Thunderbird, that is)
 * tedg thought that was youtube
<xnox> seb128: that's in lightdm logs
<xnox> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1329056
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1329056 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm does not start under systemd" [Undecided,New]
<xnox> seb128: but i think the logs are miss-matched.
<xnox> seb128: as in, they are not from the actual boot failure.
<seb128> hum, weird one
<robert_ancell> RAOF, up?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Yo!
<RAOF> Stupid irc client...
<robert_ancell> hah, left it on?
<RAOF> No, it just took a strangely long time to resync this morning.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, any update on Mir / GTK+ support?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: The eventloopy bits, or the other stuff?
<robert_ancell> all of it :)
<RAOF> I should be able to propose a merge of the eventloopy bit either tomorrow or early next week.
<RAOF> Then... we need to design an API for surface-relative surface creation.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, any futher thoughts on why we don't just do absolute positioning
<RAOF> Well, we'd need to expose quite a lot more information than we currently do to make that useful.
<robert_ancell> Such as?
<RAOF> And I remain unconvinced that we'll never want to use the flexibility that not exposing the absolute positioning allows.
<RAOF> We'd need to expose where the is in the screen coordinate space, after some (but probably not all!) transforms are applied.
<RAOF> s/the is/the window is/
<RAOF> And update that as, eg: zoom level changes.
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-12
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Given we know the dimensions of the output, we want to know our logical position within that box. Where we are on screen is actually up to the shell, a client just wants its windows to be logically layed out inside that bo
<robert_ancell> x
<robert_ancell> In a multi-window app, the windows are not relative to eachother, but we probably want to place them in a particular space
<RAOF> What do you mean by a particular space?
<RAOF> Oh, by âsurface relativeâ I *don't* mean âmoves with the parent surfaceâ (except for special types, like popovers).
<robert_ancell> I mean I have two windows in my app (both toplevel) which are rectangles in some particular space (i.e. the monitor size). They should be placed so they relate to eachother in some way (one on the left, one on the right perhaps)
<robert_ancell> It would be arbitrary to say place window B relative to A
<robert_ancell> They are really placed more based on the monitor than each other
<robert_ancell> Decorations of course make this a bit impossible
<RAOF> But people are going to be able to move those windows freely around?
<robert_ancell> yeah, the shell can do what it likes
<robert_ancell> It feels like relative positioning where the windows aren't linked in movement (i.e. useful for things like tooltips) doesn't give us any advantages
<RAOF> Well, I can easily give you an abstract coordinate space to work in, as long as you don't mind that it doesn't map to an output.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, that seems appropriate to me
<RAOF> But this also seems like an API that's there because that's how it's currently done; will an app ever care that the window is 10 units to the right rather than 20 units to the right?
<RAOF> ie: Would it perhaps make more sense for the API to allow the application to say âput this window to the right of that oneâ
<robert_ancell> But do we have a good definition of what "to the right of" means? Won't that be shell dependent
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> But that's the case with a coordinate space, too.
<RAOF> And, in your example, the user can move the windows around themselves, so it's clearly not critical that the A be to the left of B.
<RAOF> And if the API has _explicit_ semantics, rather than the implicit semantics of a coordinate space, shells have a better chance of doing the right thing.
<RAOF> eg: I'm a tiling shell; I care not at all for your pesky coordinates! But âplease put A left of Bâ still makes sense in the tiled world.
<robert_ancell> I'd like to see the list of logical positioning
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ok, but subwindows (i.e. tooltip/menus) they do use a co-ordinate space relative to their parent window?
<RAOF> Right.
<robert_ancell> so when can I have that :)
<RAOF> After you get eventloopyness :)
<RAOF> That bit shouldn't be terribly hard to do.
<RAOF> Although it means fiddling with IPC, which I find endlessly awkward.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, and grabs - are they just "this child surface receives all events for its relatives"?
<RAOF> Of course, that's the Mir bit that you can get; Unity8 will get support for that on its own timeline.
<RAOF> Urgh, grabs.
<robert_ancell> yes
<RAOF> Yeah, need to work out exactly what we mean by them.
<robert_ancell> Client level grabs seem fairly sound to me, I can't think of another method to do them
<robert_ancell> Obviously anything higher than that is not allowed
<robert_ancell> You could almost implement client level grabs entirely in libmirclient I guess
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> Is that what we want, though?
<RAOF> That means we'll have different behaviour for eg: menus to what we currently have.
<RAOF> Actually, you could implement client-level grabs in the toolkit.
<robert_ancell> But is that just a hangover of the "X way to doing things"? As I can see all we want for menus is to get the motion events and click events inside the menu surface, and just handle clicks outside them (to dismiss them). Any other clients surface that gets an event should give some sort of focus out event which is sufficient to dismiss the menus
<RAOF> That does mean that you need to click on the owner's surface in order to dismiss menus without doing something else.
<RAOF> I'm not sure to what extent that's a problem.
<RAOF> What I was thinking of doing is handling the dismissal for you - when clicking outside a surface of type popover (or whatever) we kill the popover.
<RAOF> (And don't otherwise deliver the event)
<robert_ancell> I was also wondering if that's sufficient (I think it might be)
<robert_ancell> food for thought. Speaking of food... bye!
<RAOF> Lunch!
<didrocks> mvo: hey! tell me when you get some time to have a look at this "done" callback which is called
<mvo> didrocks: now?
<didrocks> mvo: sure!, so git clone git@github.com:didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center.git
<didrocks> then, the easiest is to create a virtualenv I guess (as per README.md):
<didrocks> $ virtualenv --python=python3 env
<didrocks> $ env/bin/pip install -r requirements.txt
<didrocks> $ source env/bin/activate
<didrocks> and finally, to get a test which pass, but with all debug infos:
<mvo> didrocks: hm, ubuntu-.*-center is taken ;) and is has to be centre and its a bad omen :P
 * mvo hugs didrocks - just kidding of course
<didrocks> nosetests -c log-confs/debug_test.cfg tests/small/test_requirements_handler.py:TestRequirementsHandler.test_error_in_dpkg
<didrocks> mvo: ahah, really true! Totally forgot about that discussion
 * didrocks hugs mvo back
<didrocks> tell me if you see the test_error_in_dpkg test running (and passing) with all debug logs printed
<mvo> didrocks: its building
<mvo> didrocks: ok, tests is there now and runs and passes, what should be different :) ?
<didrocks> mvo: so, you should have as debug message:
<didrocks> 2014-06-12 09:01:05,002 [udtc.network.requirements_handler] DEBUG: ['testpackage'] install update: 0.0
<didrocks> 2014-06-12 09:01:05,114 [udtc.network.requirements_handler] DEBUG: Install for ['testpackage'] ended.
<didrocks> I wouldn't expect the last one (the install ended)
<didrocks> look at udtc/network/requirements_handler.py
<didrocks>                 logger.debug("Install for {} ended.".format(self._bucket['bucket']))
<didrocks> line 161
<didrocks> in finish_update()
<didrocks> from         class _InstallProgress(apt.progress.base.InstallProgress):
<didrocks> which is the install progress handler I installed on commit()
<mvo> didrocks: ok, give me a sec to read over the test etc
<mvo> didrocks: sorry, took a while to read through this stuff (and I was distracted for a sec)
<mvo> didrocks: so, why should finish_update() not be called? its done, even thought there is a error
<mvo> didrocks: don't get me wrong, I'm asking so that I can improve the docstrings :)
<mvo> didrocks: not to blame you that you use it wrong :)
 * mvo creates a feature/didrocks branch
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, and you told error() were for errors outside of dpkg, right?
<mvo> (and I should add that the name "finish_update" really sucks
<mvo> didrocks: yeah, error() is called for error message that dpkg --status-fd generates
<didrocks> (sounds like a method naming chosen by a French :p)
<mvo> didrocks: its terrible, sometimes I whish I could have a timemachine
<mvo> to talk to my former self about certain decisions :/
<didrocks> hum, so the only way is the exception that is raisedâ¦ which is fine I guess, but the docstring should mention finish_update is always called unless error() is called, and that error is only for errors inâ¦
<didrocks> mvo: but that would create some time corruption!
<didrocks> don't do it, please ;)
<didrocks> at most, leave a paper on your former desk :p
<mvo> didrocks: hm, finish_update should be always called, is that different from what you see?
<didrocks> hum, let me try to see if I can raise an error()
<mvo> didrocks: how does http://paste.ubuntu.com/7632429/ look?
<didrocks> mvo: sounds good!
<mvo> didrocks: I will look into the other issues you raised too (i.e. returning boolean states for the mark_install and friends) and provide a installprogress that logs or some file etc but one step at a time :)
<didrocks> I can't reproduce the error though
<mvo> didrocks: so keep the feedback coming
<didrocks> mvo: will do! thanks for fixing those :)
<mvo> didrocks: you can't reproduce that finish_updates() is not always called?
<didrocks> no, I thought I would raise an error first for my current test case
<didrocks> like testpackage and testpackage2
<didrocks> trying to install them together
<didrocks> with testpackage2 breaks (I tried conflicts as well) testpackage
<mvo> didrocks: it seems like the (few) people using python-apt are so used to its warts that they don't see those (obvious) problems, so your feedback is very valuable
<mvo> didrocks: best is to have a breaking maintainer script
<mvo> didrocks: i.e. postinst with exit 1
<mvo> didrocks: to trigger the error() method
<didrocks> mvo: will create a package like that in a sec
<didrocks> mvo: on the other one, shouldn't I get any feedback when I try to ask for something I can't?
<didrocks> like this testpackage and testpackage2
<didrocks> it's installing happily testpackage2, unmarking testpackage for install
<didrocks> before commit()
<mvo> didrocks: the resolver will not allow it
<mvo> didrocks: yeah, it will "fix" it for you unless you use "auto_fix=False" in mark_install()
<mvo> didrocks: in which case iirc commit() will raise a exception if you try to commit a broken cache (might be worth double checking though and is probably a good test-case for python-apt itself)
<didrocks> ah ok, it's not on of my use case I guess (handling that manually), but as I was trying to get some more testingâ¦ :)
<didrocks> let me check with auto_fix=False
<didrocks> just to see :)
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, so it sent error()
<didrocks> as I tried to commit a broken cache()
<didrocks> (so not only broken maintainer script)
<didrocks> no exception though
<didrocks> ah, sorry, one exception as well
<didrocks> so:
<didrocks> 1. calling error()
<didrocks> 2. raising SystemError
<mvo> ok
<Laney> hey hey
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Laney!
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> I got told off in #ubuntu-ci-eng overnight!
<Laney> other than that good ;-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> what did you do this time?
<Laney> it's quite fine today 22Â°
<seb128> same here, nice to be back to less hot weather
<Laney> "broke the rules by doing an upload without using ci train in the first  place.
<Laney> "
<seb128> lol
<seb128> tell them than french train are not working this week (which is true, they are unhappy about changes being discussed)
<Laney> grrrr
<seb128> what source did you upload?
<Laney> I think it was dbus-test-runner like months ago
<Laney> I even did a merge proposal ...
<seb128> oh
 * Laney grump
<seb128> right, they landed that this night
<seb128> ignore them, they like to complain
<didrocks> hey seb128, Laney!
<seb128> lut didrocks, wie gehts?
<didrocks> seb128: don't start speaking about french trainâ¦
 * didrocks will have to suffer from this in few hours :)
<didrocks> otherwise, good!
<seb128> heh
<seb128> did you go for morning exercice today?
<didrocks> not yet, was planning to go in 15 minutes
<Laney> hey didrocks
<didrocks> finishing up as many tests as possible before :)
<Laney> how's being an apt client treating you?
<didrocks> for testing, I'm getting a lot of questions ;)
<didrocks> but nicely, mvo is fixing up the documentation on my feedbacks :)
<didrocks> so I should be done in a couple of hours to finish those tests (already at 70%)
<mvo> Laney: I'm looking at the aptdaemon adt issue right now
<Laney> mvo: awesome, thanks!
<Laney> did you fix the apt issue too? ;-)
<mvo> Laney: almost!
<didrocks> Laney: apart from being grumpy to be layed off the train, everything's good? :)
<mvo> Laney: for some reason my adt-run behaves differently from the jenkins one for the apt tests, but I'm close
<Laney> mvo: I meant bug #1328838
<ubot5> bug 1328838 in apt (Ubuntu) "Can't x-build ubuntu-system-settings with 1.0.4ubuntu1: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libapt-pkg.so: undefined reference to `std::__throw_out_of_range_fmt(char const*, ...)@GLIBCXX_3.4.20'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328838
<Laney> are you running adt in the proper VM-y way?
<Laney> or is it lxc?
<Laney> I forgot what the proper way is currently. :(
<mvo> Laney: I guess not, schroot or lxc
<seb128> mvo, Laney: slangasek reverted to gcc-4.8 default because of an ABI change in c++ in 4.9 it seems ... maybe that's what hit libapt there?
<seb128> gcc-defaults (1.128ubuntu4) utopic; urgency=medium
<seb128>   * Revert default to 4.8, due to as-yet-undiagnosed C++ ABI breakage
<seb128>     (LP: #1329089).
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1329089 in location-service (Ubuntu) "g++-4.9 binary incompatibilties with libraries built with g++-4.8" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329089
<seb128> just mentioning it in case
<Laney> oh, could be
<mvo> yeah, that sounds more like it
<Laney> can you do a uss cross-build to see?
<Laney> that apt went to release so it should happen there too
<Laney> now
 * seb128 tries
<seb128> Laney, do I need to do anything to update my chroot or just run the sbuild command and see if that success?
<Laney> it updates itself before building, so you should be fine
<seb128> k, seems it's doing that
<Laney> you can do sbuild-update -udcar <chroot> every now and again to update in the base chroot which means it has to do less each time
<seb128> it's upgrading gcc and installing 4.9
<seb128> ok, thanks
<didrocks> actually, I was really pessimistic telling a couple of hours. All tested now :)
<didrocks> (creating the framework is always soooo long compared to add tests once it's done)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> and https://travis-ci.org/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/builds/27384556 \o/
<didrocks> I should try to disable fsync() for dpkg, I guess it's what are making the tests longâ¦
<didrocks> hum, --force-unsafe-io
<didrocks> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613428 -> seems raphaÃ«l doesn't really agree to use that though
<ubot5> Debian bug 613428 in dpkg "dpkg --force-unsafe-io still calls fsync()" [Normal,Open]
<Laney> seb128: Still breaks here
<ochosi> arr, tiheum just left. anyhow, hi everyone! wanted to ask whether there were plans for moving to the new icon theme in 14.10
<Laney> hmm I didn't get apt 3 yet though
<seb128> Laney, where does it stop? it's 45% built here
<Laney> same
<seb128> ochosi, wait for tiheum to be back
<seb128> we don't know
<seb128> ochosi, ^
<seb128> lol
<seb128> or not
<ochosi> oh crap :)
 * seb128 is afaik for a bit
 * ochosi has the feeling he's being ducked
<ochosi> tiheum: hi there! quickly wanted to ask whether there were any plans yet for the new icon theme in 14.10 (we talked about it during the 14.04 cycle, i'd be interested to add support for xubuntu to it)
<ochosi> :/
<Laney> haha
<ochosi> someone has an unstable connection there
<didrocks> ok, the win is 9s with eatmydata, let's keep it
<Laney> mvo: waah, indeed it does build again with apt ubuntu3
<Laney> which used 4.8 ...
<mvo> Laney: cool
<Laney> uncool!
<mvo> hm? at least we know the issue now
<mvo> no?
<Laney> well we know it's not apt's fault
<Laney> still don't like toolchain bugs :)
<mvo> we know its a subtle abi break in 4.8 vs 4.9
<mvo> and we even have a bugnumber
 * Laney throws this hot potato to doko
<chrisccoulson> mvo, my ears prick up at "4.8", "4.9" and "subtle abi break"
<chrisccoulson> what's this? :)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.9/+bug/1329089
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1329089 in location-service (Ubuntu) "g++-4.9 binary incompatibilties with libraries built with g++-4.8" [Critical,Confirmed]
<chrisccoulson> mvo, ah, interesting. I wonder if it contributes to bug 1328697?
<ubot5> bug 1328697 in Oxide "utopic build crashes at startup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1328697
<mvo> didrocks: https://github.com/mvo5/python-apt/compare/feature;didrocks?expand=1
<mvo> didrocks: more after lunch
<seb128> Laney, I've a silo with u-s-s, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-001/
<seb128> Laney, do you want me to include lp:~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/timedate-tests-wait in it?
<Laney> might be a good idea
<Laney> let's wait for CI
<seb128> k
<seb128> the silo is a bit stucked atm anyway, so no hurry
<seb128> need to wait mterry
<seb128> he added depends on libunity-mir
<seb128> which is not available on all archs and restricted our set
<Laney> what's that for?
<seb128> Laney, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/13/%23ubuntu-touch.html#t18:48
<seb128> is the reply I got back then when I asked
<Laney> I see
<seb128> Laney, u-s-s crossbuild worked for me btw, though dpkg-shlibdeps displayed some weird unresolved symbol errors for c++ atexit symbols
<Laney> yeah don't know what that is
<Laney> did you try with proposed?
<Laney> apt only migrated 33 minutes ago
<seb128> no
<Laney> you might have had the old one then
<Laney> I think I got confused by the versions and thought it had gone in earlier
<seb128> well, it migrated now?
<Laney> still, this new one works
<seb128> great
 * Laney looks at colord/gtk transition
<darkxst> hey seb128, Laney
<Laney> larsu: it failed again :(
<Laney> colorchooser
<Laney> hey darkxst
<Laney> what up homie
<larsu> Laney: impossible!
<darkxst> have had a pretty bad cold this week, so not a whole lot really
 * larsu wonders why it works for him
<darkxst> am liking the cool weather though!
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I bet it's still warmer than here
<Laney> larsu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7633244/
<Laney> 10149
<Laney> sorry for the huge log
<darkxst> seb128, Larsu so CSD's etc are fixed in the gtk+ 3.12 upload? i.e. ok to upload things that use GtkHeaderBar once gtk propagates?
<darkxst> Laney, aren't you guys having a heat wave? we have winter so a somewhat mild 10-15C most days
<Laney> it's about what you'd expect for june
<Laney> 20-ish
<larsu> darkxst: there are no fixes for header bars on windows in those patches
<larsu> and there won't be
<darkxst> larsu, so what is happening with headerbars then?
<darkxst> apart from the usual Ubuntu GNOME wants them, and Ubuntu doesnt....
<larsu> we're keeping the old apps afaik
<larsu> and make header bars work on compiz if people want to use an app without a title bar
<Laney> you can do patches to make them conditional
<Laney> Trevinho is fixing compiz to at least make them work properly
<Laney> so for non-Ubuntu-default apps you can update them I think
<Laney> I'd wait until this compiz work goes in though
<darkxst> Laney, I don't think its possible to patch the apps, that properly use the GtkHeaderBar API
<darkxst> in that case gtk needs to be patched
<seb128> hey, csd apps are not ok, no
<seb128> compiz/unity still don't handle them
<larsu> darkxst: I looked into that and came the conclusion that it's not feasible without a big amount of work
<seb128> even when they do, we need to see how much UI regression it creates
<seb128> well, that's only about things used by default on Ubuntu desktop, universe apps ... it's up to app writers to let their users down, we can't fix the universe
 * larsu remembers that quote. "We can't fix the universe"
<ochosi> darn, what good are MOTUs if they can't ^ ?
<darkxst> quite a few of our core apps are in main, since you guys stole them ;)
<Laney> sure you can patch things to not set a headerbar
<seb128> "stole" them
<seb128> it's rather that GNOME took over things just because they happen to be hosted on their infrastructure
<ochosi> can't headerbars be shown conditionally, depending on the environment/desktop?
<seb128> but let's not start arguing over that, it's not going to be constructive
<seb128> ochosi, they can, it's "just" extra code for upstreams
<seb128> but they need to get used that they don't get and UI working on GNOME and other desktops for free
<ochosi> sounds like a snippet that should be provided upstream, i guess that's always going to be the same code, no?
<seb128> they have to do work to support the different envs
<seb128> which most don't like, because it used to not be this way
<Laney> no, it's modifying part of your UI
<Laney> you have to put the stuff in the header somewhere else instead
<Laney> which is going to be different per app
<ochosi> simple: toolbar
<seb128> iit would be weird to have a toolbar with a cog icon only in it
<ochosi> i actually patched our theme in xubuntu (as a test) and when you hide the "close" button (we had the double-window-border issue) it looks just like a toolbar
<darkxst> seb128, I was being somewhat sarcastic with that comment, but it is a real problem!
<ochosi> right, that would be weird, but often headerbars have >1 item
<seb128> darkxst, I know it is :/
<larsu> let's please not talk about this again
<larsu> changing application's UI under their feet is not a good idea
<seb128> so yeah, we are making unity handle those
<larsu> if they want to support different desktops, it's pretty easy to do so
<seb128> then we need to sort out the core apps issue
<larsu> *how* it is done depends on the app
<seb128> the default is "do not update, we need to sort them on the case by case"
<seb128> the solutions can be
<larsu> like seb128 said, it's not just a matter of converting a headerbar to a toolbar
<seb128> - changing the app/patching it
<seb128> - using a different one for Ubuntu
<seb128> - doing a fork of the current version to use in Ubuntu
<seb128> - other ideas?
<darkxst> seb128, headerbar dropping window controls and traditional titlebar (for unity etc)
<seb128> dropping control is not enough
<seb128> you end up with having the app title in the wm decoration and then under it in a weird bar
<Laney> aaaaaaaaaanyway!
<seb128> do we have a list of the apps that people want to update and are blocked on that?
<seb128> gedit is likely on that list
<seb128> nautilus
<seb128> we should have a blueprint with the list, so we can take notes for each case
<darkxst> seb128, nearly all the 3.12 apps are using headbars
<seb128> I tried eog this week and it didn't seem to have those
<darkxst> terminal is the only one I can think of that isnt, but that is blocked by other stuff
<darkxst> right, eog might not, sushi doesnt but thats not in main
<seb128> well, so
<seb128> step 1 is to land the unity support
<seb128> then we can start testing and see how things look
<darkxst> and step 2, UG runs of time again!
<seb128> better suggestion?
<seb128> "let's update, screw Ubuntu Desktop users, and see what we can do to sort it out" is not a better option
<ochosi> i know flavors maybe aren't as important as unity, but it'd also screw over xfce-based flavors
<seb128> right
<darkxst> seb128, no that is not an option, and you know good well, we (well mostly I) have spent a good deal of time, making things compatible
<seb128> likely some other less-used desktops as well
<Laney> it's not just you
<Laney> larsu did some patches last cycle
<seb128> Trevinho is adding support to unity
<seb128> so we are working on it
<darkxst> Laney, I meant from the ubuntu GNOME side
<seb128> but yes, it's likely to take some time and put Ubuntu GNOME in a difficult position again
<seb128> the easiest way to avoid that is to just fork the apps that you really want to update
<seb128> the forks could be on our side
<Laney> urgh
<seb128> but just have a source for the old version and one for the new one
<darkxst> seb128, it totally makes no sense for us to for upstream code
<darkxst> ^fork
<seb128> well, we have choise between, screw users, fork, patch, find other apps to use
<Laney> decide we like headerbars
<seb128> that's the "screw users" option
<seb128> they are never going to be consistent with things using wm decorations
<seb128> nor they fit our design
<darkxst> yes I get that but there needs to be a solution
<seb128> well, I listed the options I see
<seb128> neither are great
 * larsu votes for "screw users"
<seb128> not sure how much patching having different UIs required
<larsu> seb128: a lot. If we want the newest apps in the gnome flavor, we should think about forking
<larsu> but that's probably a lot of work as well
<Laney> I don't know how fair it is to call it screwing users
<Laney> it's not like we have a massive amount of consistency currently
<darkxst> right there are already apps in main using psuedo-headerbars like nautilus
<Laney> anyway I think patching to work without headerbars is most desirable and forking would be very sad
<Laney> they're like opposite ends of the spectrum to me
<larsu> darkxst: nautilus uses a pseudo-headerbar? How so?
<larsu> Laney: also the most work
<larsu> Laney: I agree though, that would be the best outcome
<darkxst> larsu, like the top toolbar minus window controls etc
<seb128> Laney, we are mostly consistent on things like menus and windows behaviours
<larsu> darkxst: but it has a titlebar and a proper window menu
<larsu> but yeah, this is where the line between headerbars and toolbars gets blurry
<Laney> like did we screw users by including the webbrowser-app?
<Laney> I think it's not very good to use that kind of term
<Laney> but yeah, first we need to get the support in compiz
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I don't think the new webbrowser-app fits well on desktop atm
<seb128> sorry for the wording :/
<seb128> would "user experience regression" be betteR?
<larsu> firefox -> webbrowser app is quite a UX regression
<seb128> webbrowser-app is a user experience regression yes, and I'm not happy about it either
<Laney> I'd rather you avoid trying to label it at all :)
<Laney> You present a list of options and each has different positives and negatives
<Laney> eventually we take a decision
<seb128> that's fair enough
<Laney> It's clear that the csd fix is a prerequisite to anything which involves using that stuff though
<Laney> now, /me moves on to fixing stuff :P
<Laney> there's a weird problem with dbus-activation of whoopsie-preferences in u-s-s
<darkxst> Laney, I have hit a couple of wierd dbus-activation bugs since mid-way through trusy
<darkxst> trusty
<Laney> I blame Qt or my own shitty code :)
<Laney> what problems?
<Laney> actually it's evan's code, not mine ;)
<darkxst> no Qt, just stuff not activating
<darkxst> somewhat randomly at that
<Laney> it activates if I poke the interface with gdbus
<Laney> so I blame our code
<darkxst> but it always works when you call it with gdbus
<Laney> ha
<darkxst> Laney, I orginally thought it might have been related to changes in glib, but couldnt track anything down
<darkxst> well not anything useful
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> this is totally not random
<darkxst> Laney, I don't have a solid test case though
<Laney> gtk went in
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> thanks mvo!
<seb128> Laney, thanks for looking at it and pinging people about the issues as well ;-)
<Laney> and doing the colord transition!
<Laney> :P
<Laney> it was a good team effort
<seb128> heh
<mvo> seb128: your welcome, sorry for causing the blockage in the first place
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<Laney> larsu and seb128 and mvo and ricotz
<Laney> gooooo team
<seb128> indeed! ;-)
<larsu> a "gooooo team" is a team made of goo?
<Laney> funny, I did just see this video from chrisccoulson ...
 * larsu tries to figure out Laney's build failure now
<chrisccoulson> hah
 * seb128 notices that chrisccoulson is there when people talk about funny videos
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
<larsu> Laney: did you build gtk from my branch or did you copy the patches over?
 * larsu is wondering whether you forgot to copy a11y-test-update-color-chooser-output.patch
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, how busy are you with the split greeter crazyness?
<mterry> seb128, a little busy, what you got?
<seb128> mterry, the wizard is creating issues, see my comments on the merge request
<seb128> mterry, basically we need to make either the wizard or the unity-mir code optional and turn it off on archs where unity-mir doesn't exists
<mterry> seb128, ah right, I saw that comment
<mterry> seb128, yeah OK.  I can look into making unity-mir optional
<seb128> mterry, do you think you can work on that or do you need help doing it?
<seb128> bregma, hey, do you need help testing the unity update for utopic? I see it's in a silo for some days
<bregma> seb128, no, we've been using it to test running AP tests against silos so we can get back to the level of automated tech we used in 2013
<bregma> we're done with that for now, I'll be marking it as tested soon
<seb128> bregma, great, thanks
<Laney> larsu: I merged the branch
<Laney> look at the log, you can see the patch being applied at the top
<Laney> larsu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7633244/ line 2045
<Laney> you should set up sbuild so you can reproduce ;-)
<larsu> Laney: ah, right. Fun.
<seb128> bregma, not sure if something changed, or if it was random behaviour and I'm lucky today, but unity8-desktop-mir keeps working after suspend/resume cycles now (using the platform-api ppa that is about to land)
<bregma> goody, because taht was causing me inconvenience
<seb128> is it working for you as well?
<bregma> seb128, I'll be testing it in a few minutes, I'm bottlenecked on test machines at the moment
<seb128> k
<bregma> seb128, Unity8 now wakes up properly when I close my laptop lid and re-open, except I seem to lose the keyboard input after that
<bregma> mouse and touch seem to work, though
<seb128> same here
<bregma> I'll test on my other machine
<seb128> I didn't test keyboard at first
<seb128> I was happy being able to scroll on the dash with the touch screen ;-)
<bregma> there's a brief time when it wakes up after sleeping where the keyboard send input to the terminal, then a flash on the screen and the input stops
<bregma> you need to be quick to see it
<bregma> hmm, my other machine does not seem to want to run Unity 8 after I install the PPA, investigating....
<bregma> I see "Ubuntu Platform API: Selected module is invalid -- Aborting" in the log, I'll try again....
<seb128> bregma, do you have qtubuntu-desktop installed/uptodate?
<bregma> all I did was a dist-upgrade with the PPA in the sources
<seb128> bregma, dpkg -l | grep ubuntu-application-api2-desktop
<bregma> yes, everything seems to be installed from the PPA
<seb128> k, I was getting that error before upgrading qtubuntu-desktop and getting ubuntu-application-api2-desktop
<seb128> you probably have another issue
<bregma> ah, yes, I had a custom upstart script for the session (to handle changing the scaling factor)
<bregma> I moved it out of the way, Unity 8 starts fine
<bregma> if by fine you mean teeny-weeny 300 DPI display
<bregma> ...aaaand yes, I get the same lost keyboard when I close and open the laptop lid
<Trevinho> seb128, larsu, Laney: as I said (to larsu) the only concern I've with headerbars in unity (excluding the design point of view, which is is pointless now), is that if the LIMs are enabled, then you'll  miss the application menu. But the good Larsu told me that the idea is to move out things from menubar and showing a menu-button, instead... And this would do
<Trevinho> the work.
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, I overlooked that issue :/
<Laney> mmm
<Trevinho> seb128: for 14.04 there won't the the problem, since not exporting the hint will make us free to use the title-bar anyway with no troubles... But for U is different
<seb128> Trevinho, indeed
<seb128> Trevinho, the LTS also doesn't have apps using CSD
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, not the main one,... but you know people will install from universe or with time passing, from ppa...
<Laney> where does shell put it?
<seb128> Trevinho, right, well that's the issue of those app writers and their users then
<Laney> at the top always isn't it
<Trevinho> Laney: by shell you mean unity? Becase if you use local menus, they will go into the app decoration itself...
<Laney> Trevinho: I meant gnome-shell
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, ok... that was my 1st guess, but then you mentioned "top", and you know... :)
<Laney> :P
<nessita> hello everyone! question, I'm running trusty will all updates installed, and the X is crashing a lot to me (not sure whether is X, unity or something else)
<nessita> I thought nouveau drivers were the issue, so I installed nvidias, but I still get often X freezes and crashes
<seb128> nessita, hey!
<nessita> any recommended procedure to debug?
<seb128> what happens exactly?
<nessita> seb128, the X session freezes, but audio keeps going if I was listening to music, for example
<nessita> I can not change to a text console
<nessita> after 2 minutes, I get the lightdm screen again
<seb128> no apport report?
<nessita> when I re-login, I get the crash report window, I enter the root password and click on 'Yes' (willing to help)
<seb128> could you send your Xorg.0.log(.old) after getting the issue?
<nessita> seb128, but I never get a LP page opened
<nessita> so I'm not sure which bug is this (if there is any)
<seb128> right, reports are sent to errors.ubuntu.com on stable release
<seb128> you can go to system-settings -> privacy, there is a link to your reports
<nessita> ah!
<nessita> checking
<seb128> or you could look manually to the crash report
<nessita> so I can not see my report, apparently, link is https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/ad871aca-f245-11e3-9ffa-fa163e339c81
<nessita> but I get "Sorry, you are not a member of a group that is allowed to see the data from error reports. Please fill out this form to request access."
<nessita> the othe report I have is https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/33c9fac2-f1a0-11e3-88c1-fa163e707a72
<nessita> seb128, this is my /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old https://pastebin.canonical.com/111604/ (I just rebooted from a crash that never recover by itself)
<nessita> I don't see any obvious error in there, though
<nessita> seb128, can you see my reports?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> one is a systemd-logind/cgmanager one
<seb128> the other one an Xorg one
<nessita> so today I had a crash this morning, re-login, installed nvidia drivers and rebooted. Then I had another crash I just rebooted from, but I got no apport crash prompt
<nessita> I had to hard-reboot
<seb128> do you have any recent crash in /var/crash?
<nessita> not even alt+sysrq was responding and CPU usage was super high
<nessita> checking
<seb128> seems like a kernel issue to me
<seb128> it's weird in those cases that vt switch doesn't work
<seb128> or sysrq
<nessita> seb128, crashes from today are _lib_systemd_systemd-logind.0.crash and _lib_systemd_systemd-logind.0.upload only
<seb128> nessita, your report matches https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1322679
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1309025 in systemd (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1322679 systemd-logind assert failure: cgmanager-client.c:6322: Assertion failed in cgmanager_list_children_sync: proxy != NULL" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> nessita, some comment mentioning removing cgroup-lite or lxc to resolve the issue
<seb128> stgraber is assigned to the bug
<seb128> the assert are not the same on both bugs, not sure if they got wrongly duplicated or not
<nessita> hum, my daily work depends on LXC
<seb128> stgraber, ^ do you know if that's a correct duplicate?
<seb128> nessita, that report might be another issue than your xorg one though
<nessita> right, I was about to ask
<seb128> the Xorg one seems to be in libexa.so but doesn't have debug infos
<larsu> Trevinho, seb128: the application menu is merged with the menu bar when shelshowsappmenu is false
<seb128> do you still have the report in /var/crash?
<nessita> seb128, I haven't removed anything from there
<nessita> also, grepping on older logs in /var/log, I see things like
<nessita> /var/log/kern.log.1:3710:Jun  7 22:25:03 dali kernel: [38658.518253] compiz[9565]: segfault at 81dcec90 ip 00007f41ae7c6e56 sp 00007fff8b995d20 error 6 in libdrm_nouveau.so.2.0.0[7f41ae7c5000+5000]
<seb128> larsu, that's a bit orthogonal to LIM relying on compiz decorations?
<seb128> nessita, seems like that's yet another issue, in nouveau this time
<nessita> seb128, right, but I switched to nvidia this morning and had a crash as well (of course I can not confirm is the same issue)
<larsu> seb128: well, if LIM is enabled and we don't have compiz decorations (because of csd), then the app will get a traditional menu bar
<larsu> which has the app menu merged with the win menu
<seb128> larsu, is it?
<seb128> or are we going to "eat" the menu
<larsu> if we unset the xsettings, it is
<seb128> but not have it render anywhere, because that particular window has no decoration
<larsu> afaik
<stgraber> seb128: it's probably the same issue, yes. We're yet to actually understand what the issue is though...
<seb128> stgraber, ok, thanks, I just wanted to make sure the duplicate status is correct
<larsu> seb128: no. GtkApplicationWindow inserts a menu into the window when ShellShowsMenubar is false
<seb128> larsu, but are those settings by-app?
<larsu> ah wait
<larsu> right.
<larsu> they aren't
<larsu> so we'll eat the menus in that case :)
<seb128> right
 * larsu <-- a bit slow today apparently
<seb128> blame the heat!
<larsu> this is a weird edge case, because most applications using a header bar won't have a window menu
<larsu> but might have an app menu, which can be displayed in the header bar, but again only when the xsetting is false
<larsu> I hate LIM
<nessita> seb128, I think the crash from this morning is related to nouveau indeed, my first freeze today matches this from the kernel log:
<Laney> like add it to or create a gear menu in there?
<nessita> Jun 12 11:34:26 dali kernel: [ 8609.142610] nouveau E[  PGRAPH][0000:01:00.0] DATA_ERROR INVALID_VALUE
<nessita> Jun 12 11:34:26 dali kernel: [ 8609.142618] nouveau E[  PGRAPH][0000:01:00.0]  DATA_ERROR
<nessita> Jun 12 11:34:26 dali kernel: [ 8609.142626] nouveau E[  PGRAPH][0000:01:00.0] ch 2 [0x001fb14000 Xorg[1559]] subc 2 class 0x502d mthd 0x0604 data 0x00104600
<nessita> Jun 12 12:04:49 dali kernel: [10431.572929] nouveau E[Xorg[1559]] failed to idle channel 0xcccc0000 [Xorg[1559]]
<nessita> stgraber, anything I can help regarding debugging? I'm hving crashes once a day approx (not completely sure is that exact issue though)
<nessita> seb128, anything you need from my /var/crash?
<seb128> nessita, clean it and ping me again next time you have a lock/issue/report, so we have a clean state to work on
<seb128> nessita, the current situation is a bit of a mix and not easy to debug
<nessita> seb128, ack!
<nessita> seb128, confirm you want me to run sudo rm /var/crash/* ?
<seb128> nessita, yes
<seb128> Laney, your cinnamon upload is blocked in proposed because it wants cogl15 and we are on cogl20, could you have a look to it?
<Laney> seb128: my upload?!?!?!?!?!">Â£K$?Â£K4w/r.s/fs
<Laney> is it blocking $stuff?
<seb128> Laney, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#cinnamon
<Laney> wasn't that blocked manually?
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cinnamon/1.7.4-2ubuntu6 has your name on it!
<Laney> did it get fixed?
<seb128> Laney, I removed the tag, it didn't seem to make sense
<seb128> since that package is neither in trusty nor utopic
<seb128> but the bug mentioned is an nvidia one, I don't have hardware to try
<Laney> I'm not sure it's a great idea
<Laney> this has rcbugs in Debian and isn't in testing
<Laney> I think we want someone to merge 2.x
<seb128> right, that sounds like a better idea indeed
<Laney> I know people do want this in, but what it misses is someone looking after it
<Laney> that's how it ended up out of the release
<Laney> if we get that, great
<Laney> hopefully it's syncable so that might just be a matter of watching bugs
<seb128> right, I noticed it because it's showing on the update-excuses list
<seb128> and it seemed desktopish
<seb128> +1 if we can sync from Debian
<seb128> it would make some happy users, without extra work from our side
<Laney> okay, climbing time, see you!
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, Was there a reason why XI2 wasn't a new extension? Seems kind of odd to completely replace all the requests of XI1 but still live in the same extension
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Versioning makes it reasonable.
<RAOF> robert_ancell: There's no reason a client should do both XI v1 and XI v2 at the same time, so...
<RAOF> (Except, you know, toolkits)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, obviously it works fine, but it means that you drag around the legacy of XI1 forever for no benefit
<robert_ancell> Perhaps it was easier to implement in xorg that way since both extensions would use the same code
<RAOF> XI1 was going to hang around forever anyway.
<robert_ancell> really?
<RAOF> I think there have been 2 extensions removed in the history of the X server?
<robert_ancell_> I think I saw more than that, perhaps they weren't in xfree86/sorg
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-13
<Laney> hey hey HEY!
<mvo> hey Laney!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> happy friday!
<mvo> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey mvo, wie gehts?
<mvo> seb128: I'm in really good mood, I got a slackline and installed it in the garden yesterday
<Laney> hey mvo et seb128
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<seb128> mvo, lol, I first read that as "I got slackware and installed it"
<mvo> seb128: and you? how is the real world?
<mvo> seb128: LOL
<Laney> not bad!
<Laney> apparently the "hottest day of the year" today
<seb128> good! we have blue sky & not crazy hot weather
<mvo> seb128: yeah, 'cause I hate systemd and its the last hideout ;)
<mvo> (kidding, I don't care much about the init system really)
<Laney> how dare you
<mvo> Laney: really? we had that last week, it was really hot
<Laney> give back your Debian license right now
<seb128> Laney, how hot is that?
<mvo> Laney: *weeeeeh* you mean as a DD I *must* *always* *have* *strong* *opinions* ?
<seb128> we had 36Â°C on monday
<Laney> â posted on 10 init threads in the past year
<Laney> yeah don't laugh at us :P
<Laney> I think the previous hottest was 26
<ogra_> now it is 26.5 ?
<Laney> could be!
<ogra_> :)
 * seb128 refrains a lol
<Laney> I'm quite happy if that is the maximum we get all year ;-)
<seb128> yeah, over 30Â°C starts being annoying
<mvo> seb128++
<Laney> seb129?
<darkxst> try 43-45Â°C, thats about our usual max over summer, luckily its winter now and we have nice mild 10Â°C days!
<seb128> with over 40Â°C I guess everybody stick to "find some place with AC and stay in there"?
<darkxst> well I do! not sure what the people without AC do, go shopping perhaps!
<seb128> shrug
 * seb128 shakes fist at xnox and ubiquity
<xnox> seb128: cepasa? 3.12?
<seb128> the "replace Ubuntu install" partitionner option destroyed the win8 and recovery partitions on that machine
<xnox> seb128: or just general cd brokenes
<xnox> seb128: i've filed several requests to get windows8 from MSDN to fix that.
<seb128> xnox, no, I just nuked the win8 from my cousin trying to install the LTS
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> I hope there was no important datas on that disk :-(
<xnox> seb128: excellent, did you make "windows 8 recovery usb stick first" ?
<seb128> no
<xnox> seb128: cause now you don't have any way to reinstall windows 8
<xnox> \o/
<seb128> yeah, thanks, I know
<seb128> no win8, no data
<xnox> who needs that stuff anyway =)
<Laney> :/
<seb128> xnox, not funny
<seb128> we shouldn't even propose that option if it has risks to nuke disks
<seb128> xnox, I guess you don't know of any way to recover the partitions or datas?
<xnox> seb128: i've used testdisk successfully before.
<Laney> tjaalton: do you know anything about libinput?
<xnox> seb128: you should be able to still guess partition tables & detect ntfs and recover things that ubuntu didn't blast over
<seb128> Laney, it's used by clutter and needs a MIR!
<seb128> xnox, let me try that
<xnox> seb128: so eveyrthing sans first 10GB should be recovarable.
<Laney> seb128: xactly
<xnox> seb128: ideally boot into livecd and install testdisk into live to operate on the drive, et.al.
<seb128> xnox, trying that, thanks
<tjaalton> Laney: did RAOF package that already, or am i thinking of something else..
<Laney> tjaalton: It's packaged
<Laney> clutter wants to pull it into main
<tjaalton> ah
<tjaalton> i think Mir will use it eventually
<Laney> that's interesting
<tjaalton> so MIRing it now would make sense in the long run
<Laney> as it's part of the wayland project
<Laney> but cool
<Laney> who would be good to do the MIR? :-)
<tjaalton> hehe
<tjaalton> mlankhorst is off today, as am i
<tjaalton> so if you need it now maybe someone else :)
<Laney> doesn't have to be now
<Laney> I was just browsing excuses and saw this
<tjaalton> i can file the paperwork on monday
<Laney> that would be great
<Laney> thanks!
<Laney> now go enjoy your day off :P
<tjaalton> already by the pool with a cold pint of Mythos ;)
<tjaalton> but yeah, next week
<seb128> Sweet5hark, hey
<Sweet5hark> seb128: hm?
<seb128> bregma, hey, just as a fyi, I kicked a rebuild for unity8-desktop-session changes in silo 008, since the platform-api landed (so the changes got applied on the new trunk/can be tested)
<bregma> saw that, thanks
<bregma> it'll likely land today
<seb128> great
<seb128> I'm going to test it in a bit
<desrt> moin
<seb128> xnox, help! ;-)
<seb128> xnox, so I gave up on getting back win8 on that box and installed trusty
<seb128> but after install/reboot I'm greeted with a "Operating System Not Found" and not with grub
<seb128> do you know what the issue could be?
<ogra_> did you check the UEFI boot order etc ?
<ogra_> (in the BIOS)
<seb128> ogra_, where there is only one OS shouldn't that be the one booted?
<seb128> ok, changed the boot mode from UEFI to legacy and it boots Ubuntu...
<ogra_> probably ... i just know that i have to fiddle with that when susie accidentially booted into windows on her laptop ... it switches to the builtin windows boot manager in UEFI at times
<seb128> ogra_, well, the issue is that ubiquity nucked all the windows partitions, including boot and recovery
<seb128> (when picking "reinstall over the existing Ubuntu installation")
<ogra_> ah, nice :P
<seb128> "nice"
<seb128> indeed
<xnox> seb128: bah. that's quite bad.
<xnox> seb128: i'd reinstall again.
<seb128> xnox, well, it's booting when the bios is in "legacy mode"
<xnox> seb128: it means that bios preffered legacy boot over UEFI boot. And since our media is dual, it did boot in BIOS mode for installation.
<xnox> when you were originally booting external media
<xnox> it's nicer / faster & better graphics to boot in UEFI mode all the time.
<seb128> there is no way to reinstall grub in uefi mode from the installed system?
<xnox> there is
<xnox> do you still have UEFI partition though left?
<seb128> how do I know? I doubt it
<xnox> seb128: open disks
<xnox> seb128: and check if it has one at the begging
<seb128> there is a 274M and a  1.5G unknown type ones
<xnox> "Partition Type" EFI System as the first one in the begging
<seb128> well type "basic data"
<seb128> no
<xnox> 1.5G unknown type could be intel rapid start volume
<xnox> 274M is that FAT partition?
<xnox> can you mount it & check what it has?
<xnox> overwise i would reboot into bios, make sure it preffers UEFI only for all boot types & reinstall.
<seb128> no, it fact that "non allocated space"
<xnox> or just stick with legacy boot
<xnox> =)
<xnox> seb128: it's not like, grub1 was ever removed from the archive and main =))))
<xnox> seb128: and i did fix bugs with using grub1 on trusty =)))))))) lolz
<seb128> xnox, shrug
<seb128> the bios was in UEFI mode when I booted the USB stick, I'm unsure how doing another install is going to be different
<xnox> that's very weird then
<xnox> you should have ended up with an UEFI install
<seb128> well, I didn't install over the disk but picked a / partition
<seb128> so maybe that's an issue?
<seb128> xnox, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI#Creating_an_EFI_partition states I need to create an EFI partition if I want to be able to use UEFI boot
<seb128> ubiquity is not doing that for me in manual partitioning mode
<xnox> seb128: we reuse/hide that fact typically.
<xnox> seb128: EFI system partition is nothing more than a FAT32 partition with a type id changed to "EFI"
<xnox> (or was it fat16?!)
<seb128> xnox, well, typically seems like if you don't do manually partitioning ... let me install over the disk
<Saviq> seb128, bregma, hey, silo 008 is built with session logout, will you do the desktop testing (I can do a phone ACK)?
<xnox> seb128: so, you originally booted with (a) uefi mode (b) went into manual partitioning (c) picked existing ubuntu partition (?!) for a reinstall and that resulted in grub-pc, instead of grub-efi?
<bregma> Saviq, absolutely
<xnox> Saviq: bregma: \o/
<seb128> Saviq, I'm about to test on desktop yes, though we can't test the logout part until unity8 and indicator-session changes land, right?
<Saviq> seb128, they're in the same silo, why wouldn't you be able to test?
<seb128> xnox, sort of, (c) selected manual mode, created a new partition, used that to install /
<xnox> seb128: you didn't trust auto-resize, right? (or it wasn't offered)?
<seb128> Saviq, ignore me, I didn't realize that silo had been reconfigured since this morning
<seb128> xnox, it wasn't offered
<Saviq> seb128, ok, I'll do that ;)
<xnox> seb128: tah.
<seb128> desrt, hey, sorry I just remembered that forgot to reply to your greeting earlier ;-)
<desrt> seb128: no worries :)
<desrt> DRO is over :p
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> happy to be "free" again? ;-)
<desrt> yup
<desrt> results weren't bad either
<desrt> my particular ballot box was overwhelmingly NDP -- > 50%
<desrt> and NDP won that district.... but liberals won overall
<seb128> cool
<seb128> charles, tedg, Saviq, bregma: sorry I though we were here earlier, and I got sidetracked by people asking things
<seb128> the dbus-monitor log has "No such object path '/org/gnome/SessionManager/EndSessionDialog'"
<bregma> ** (process:2497): WARNING **: /build/buildd/indicator-session-12.10.5+14.10.20140613/src/backend-dbus/actions.c:638 on_open_end_session_dialog_ready: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownObject: No such object path '/org/gnome/SessionManager/EndSessionDialog'
<seb128> no RequestLogout
<charles> hm, ok
<charles> sounds like a problem on the i-session side then
<Laney> bug #1329792 seems real
<charles> seb128, just to make sure, this is with the lp-1296814-logout-using-unity-session branch right?
<ubot5> bug 1329792 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "GtkVolumeButton do not let me to change volume" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1329792
<seb128> charles, it's with https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-008
<seb128> charles, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/177551784/indicator-session_12.10.5%2B14.04.20140410-0ubuntu1_12.10.5%2B14.10.20140613-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<seb128> is the codediff for indicator-session
<charles> k
<seb128> Laney, indeed
<seb128> Laney, going to make larsu happy :/
 * larsu reads scrollback to become happy
<charles> seb128, I'm going to be afk in a little bit taking my wife to work, after that I'll see if I can get a unity8 env running on my system and try 008 on my own and track down the problem
<seb128> larsu, <irony> sorry
<ogra_> to late !
<ogra_> TGIF :)
<charles> seb128, downside is, eta ~90 min before I start on that
<larsu> seb128: what are we talking about? The volume button bug?
<seb128> charles, ok, let me know if I can help providing debug infos
<seb128> larsu, yes
<seb128> charles, well, no worry, that can wait for monday to land
<seb128> though I'm a bit annoyed that we grouper the iso autologin fix with unrelated changes
<larsu> seb128: any idea what could be wrong there?
<seb128> because it means we are blocking the iso fix
<seb128> bregma, Saviq: ^ just as a fyi
<seb128> larsu, no :-( I see a + displayed a bit downer on the UI, I wonder if that's a stacking or rendering issue
<larsu> interesting. I'll put it on my TODO
<Saviq> seb128, hmm, sorry, we did discuss it this morning, only probably we expected this to be working and landable...
 * larsu has to finish reviewing desrt's parser patch today
<Saviq> seb128, if you want, drop unity8 and i-session again from there and land u8-d-session alone
<seb128> Saviq, yeah, we should have taken Laney's login fix alone and then grouped everything else
<seb128> mterry, thanks for the MIR approval btw ;-)
<mterry> seb128, I only wish they were all so easy  :)
<seb128> hehe
<bregma> the logout fix getting added to the unity8-desktop-session silo took me by surprise too
<seb128> bregma, I'm going to move Laney's fix to its own silo, land that and reconfigure the logout one without that mp, if that works for you?
<bregma> wfm
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Saviq, bregma, charles, Laney: k, I landed the unity8-desktop-session autologin fix and I'm rebuilding silo 008 on top of that landing now (only including the session changes)
<Laney> cool, thanks
<Laney> what does on top of mean?
<seb128> I waited for the fix to be in trunk before kicking the rebuild
<seb128> so it means the silo includes the fix
<Laney> oh there's another change to that package, I see
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok, calling it a week, time for some tennis and w.e!
<seb128> have a good w.e everyone
<seb128> see you next week
<Laney> bye seb128 !
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-06-15
<BigWhale> Why on earth did this started to appear on 14.04 ... NotImplementedError: Surface.create_for_data: Not Implemented yet.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-08
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> good morning pitti!
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: gut danke! Superwetter hier :)  Und dir?
<pitti> larsu: hier auch, fantastisches 4-Tage-Wochenende
<pitti> larsu: mein erster Drachenflug! war fantastisch!
<larsu> pitti: toll!
<didrocks> good morning
<larsu> bonjour didrocks!
<didrocks> hey larsu
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a va bien, merci ! j'ai eu un week-end magnifique !
<pitti> didrocks: my first-ever kite flight, it finally happened :)
<didrocks> kite flight?
<pitti> didrocks: http://piware.de/fotos/Drachenflug-Jun15/
<didrocks> ah nice, you weren't scared before jumping? :)
<pitti> didrocks: no, not really -- the guy has done this for 18 years :)
<pitti> didrocks: excited yes, but not scared at all
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<didrocks> re seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<seb128> pitti, nice view from the kite ;-)
<pitti> seb128: absolutely! it feels just amazing
<pitti> the landing with a tandem kite is a bit funny/rough, you basically just slam into the field on your belly and knees
<pitti> on a single-person kite you land/run on your feet, much more elegant :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> pitti, touch people were looking for you on friday, they needed a vivid overlay langpack export I think
<pitti> seb128: GunnarHj wrote me, he plans to do a langpack update soon
<pitti> * Building ubuntu-docs during next week
<pitti> * Full export and moving to -proposed around June 15-17
<pitti> * Testing June 18 - June 24
<pitti> * Moving to -updates around June 25
<seb128> pitti, no, I'm speaking about touch
<seb128> they want one for OTA4 which is supposed to be rolled out to customers this week
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1460144
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1460144 in Canonical System Image "New swipe actions tutorial needs translations" [High,In progress]
<seb128> though seems like German still didn't get translations on e.g https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated
<pitti> ah, we still do daily RTM langpack uploads
<pitti> so that's not what they want any more, then? can/should we stop the RTM ones?
<seb128> rtm?
<seb128> right, I think that's superseeded by the vivid-overlay ppa
<seb128> to check with sil2100 & Mirv I guess
<pitti> hm, somehow I remember setting up langpacks for the overlay, it's been a few weeks
<pitti> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay
<pitti> last update from June 1
<pitti> we only do weekly, as that's what LP gives us
<sil2100> pitti: yeah, we don't need RTM updates anymore, the overlay ones are sufficient
<seb128> k
<pitti> (see https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+language-packs)
<pitti> sil2100: oh cool, then I'll kill that job
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<pitti> sil2100: do we still use RTM for anything? i. e. ddebs and the like?
<seb128> sil2100, somebody might want to email the translators about https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1460144
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1460144 in Canonical System Image "New swipe actions tutorial needs translations" [High,In progress]
<seb128> sil2100, seems like e.g the german translators didn't pick those up, https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated
<sil2100> pitti: I'm not aware of any current use-cases, it's just for legacy stuff and bug-tracking currently
<sil2100> seb128: do you know if only german is affected?
<seb128> sil2100, you mean? I'm sure other teams didn't pick up the new strings yet
<seb128> but on the bug pat listed german and spanish as needed
<seb128> vrruiz did the spanish translations
<seb128> I know the french team did pick those up
<seb128> so I guess we would need a least a german translator
<seb128> maybe pitti or mvo can help there
<sil2100> Yeah, I think this is important as we at least try to have the spanish and german translations correct and usable, we'll try to poke someone for this too
<seb128> in fact spanish still needs to be validated
<seb128> https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/es/+translate?show=untranslated
<pitti> sil2100, seb128: doing the German ones
<pitti> meh, folks really need to add translator comments
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, the "Got it!" is a button that let you dismiss the tutorial
<seb128> if that's what you are refering to
<seb128> like "understood"
<pitti> with a highly context sensitive language like English it's impossible to do good translations from just one or two short words
<seb128> it confused the french translators, had to change it
<pitti> "Mobile"
<seb128> ah
<pitti> as in, "a mobile phone"? a mobile data connection? opposite of "fixed"?
<seb128> let me check
<pitti> the first and second are very different words
<seb128> pitti, the tutorial has
<seb128> <number>
<seb128> "mobile"
<seb128> so it's to indicate the number is the one from a mobile phone
<seb128> like in the contacts list you have land line/mobile/home/work/...
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
<pitti> ok, done
<mitya57> attente: in https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel, all addMenu() calls are in #ifdef IS_QT_4..#endif blocks
<mitya57> attente: Probably upstream tried to work-around the Qt bug, and now they can remove the work-around and use addMenu() again
<seb128> pitti, can you validate the one on https://translations.launchpad.net/messaging-app/trunk/+pots/messaging-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated as well?
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<pitti> seb128: heh, that's my own translation from a minute ago :) I'm not proud of that (it sounds a bit unwieldy), but I can't think of a better one
<pitti> seb128: done
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, yeah, translations are shared between components so it suggested it there
<Laney> ahoy
<willcooke> morning Laney, nice day for it
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts? how was your w.e?
<Laney> willcooke: yeah, at last
 * Laney actually used sun cream at the weekend
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> seb128: good! we had our space 4 cycling ride
 * willcooke didnt and is now a bit red
<Laney> that was first dreamt up in our sprint room in london
<Laney> we got on the news
<seb128> what is that?
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<seb128> did you bike to the moon and back? ;-)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> E.T style?
 * Laney uploads it
<Laney> probably should have compressed this somehow
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/pob.mov
<Laney> firefox can't play that for me but totem can
<Laney> and now ... u-s-d is crashing on my desktop :(
<Laney> assert failure in gsd_rr_something
<seb128> Laney, you didn't even speak!
<seb128> cool to see things happening
<seb128> I wonder what % of daily trips are made with bikes e.g in .nl
<seb128> not sure where to place the 10% goal mentioned there in perspective to what is currently done in the u.k and other places
<Laney> I think it's about 30% for all trips in nl
<Laney> higher if you measure specific things like travelling to school or commuting
<Laney> nottingham is like 2.4%
<seb128> that's quite a difference...
<Laney> the power of design
<seb128> yeah, unsure how much there is also mindset playing there
<seb128> it's like that if you made a town with perfect infrastructure for bike in .fr or .uk you would still guess twice less people biking that they have in .nl
<Laney> maybe so, they have 40 years of this stuff already
<Laney> a worry is that if we don't get instant results then this small piece of momentum we have currently will evaporate
<larsu> Laney: just two days ago I was thinking that we need more bike lanes now
<larsu> the ones we have are so successful that they're becoming overcrowded
 * seb128 wishes for less bikes here
<larsu> might be only during the sunny days though... (of which we don't have that many)
<seb128> (sorry guys)
<larsu> seb128: pah!
<seb128> it's quite more stressing to be pedestrian here
<Laney> hey larsu
<larsu> hm? Same as with cars, no?
<seb128> no, cars are on roads
<larsu> or is everyone riding their bike on the sidewalk?
<larsu> hi Laney
<seb128> not taking side walks and going in small alleys where you don't expect them
<Laney> I was reading this blog by a bike guy who moved from uk to berlin
<Laney> https://departmentfortransport.wordpress.com/tag/berlin/
<seb128> no, people are just doing crazy stuff with bike
<larsu> seb128: ugh. Clearly bikes should be on the road or bike paths
<seb128> and drive fast in narrow stpace
<seb128> they act like they owned the street and are often dangerous to pedestrians
<seb128> at least with cars you know where to expect them
<darkxst> seb128, or cars/trucks could respect bikes? Ive been run off the road by taxi's, doored' by idiots and had trucks buzz so close they were mere millimeters from hitting me
<larsu> Laney: that street is shitty for bikes, there are better ones parallel to it
<darkxst> hey all btw
<larsu> hi darkxst
<seb128> darkxst, no doubt cars/trucks should respect bikes
<larsu> seb128: clearly this is just a problem of policy and enforcment
<seb128> darkxst, but bikes should also respect pedestrians
<darkxst> seb128, they don't in Melbourne!
<seb128> bikers have the same issues than car drivers
<seb128> people seem to never car about those who are slower/less heavy than them
<seb128> darkxst, I don't say they do
<darkxst> seb128, probably a few bad eggs, most cyclists do care
<Laney> yeah conflict is a big issue
<larsu> seb128: I ride a bike and I do care :P
<Laney> they often try to proposed shared cycle and foot paths here as a cheap/easy solution
<seb128> larsu, I drive a car and I do care about bikes and pedestrians
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> seb128: I never said you didn't :)
<seb128> larsu, right, just playing along your reply :p
<darkxst> I come across walkers and horse riders all the time, and when we do, slow down and have a chat
<larsu> seb128: in general, drivers are pretty good. The problem is that the bad ones are *really* bad
<seb128> yeah, same for bikers
<larsu> seb128: like going 100 on a 50 street, like I saw yesterday. With lots of pedestrians next to a park...
<seb128> right, those people are crazy
<larsu> where you should be going 30 just to be careful
<darkxst> Laney, anymore thoughts on what to do with the extra shell extensions? demote to proposed until debian update them?
<Laney> darkxst: if you want, that's your stuff
<darkxst> Laney, that would be my call, I don't think they belong in the archive really
<Laney> WTF is going on with usd :(
<didrocks> seb128: you don't want to be able to run docker on desktop next?
<seb128> didrocks, no!
<seb128> who cares about docker :p
<didrocks> okâ¦ that's still a valid use case I guess
<didrocks> but your call
<seb128> yeah, as are other programs
<seb128> but Laney suggested we don't need that hack and mvo agreed
<Laney> I guess they can keep that on core, it's clearly not going to be the long term solution
<didrocks> well, as long as we don't have a way to add system users to snappyâ¦
<seb128> they are working on a solution to make group adding work with libnss-extrasusers
<didrocks> I just think that some people will install the snappy docker framework on ubuntu personal
<didrocks> and will surprised it doesn't work
<seb128> yeah, could be
<seb128> well, we can do tweaks once the image is working
<seb128> maybe libnss-extrasusers is going to be working before the personal image :p
<didrocks> let's see ;)
<seb128> larsu, your scrollbar work removes the bg from progressbars widgets it seems
<seb128> they look like a border only rather than a bar since friday, I reverted to the archive version and that fixed it
<larsu> seb128: hm that might well be, I saw some problems with that but thought I removed them
<larsu> seb128: do you see that problem in gtk3-image-factory as well?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I first noticed in update-manager
<larsu> ok, I'll have a look
<seb128> confirmed with the factory
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> after I get this device running :/
<seb128> what's the issue? are you blocked on something?
<larsu> indeed, the gradient is missing
<larsu> seb128: just trying to debug why it doesn't boot with systemd
<larsu> seb128: orange line + big time + small date is the lock screen?
<larsu> it seems frozen five minutes ago
<larsu> (I booted 2 minutes ago)
<larsu> backlight still changes when touching and I can turn the screen on and off
<seb128> larsu, http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ubuntu_Phone-welcom-screen.jpg
<seb128> that's the lock screen
<larsu> no that's not it
<larsu> it's only the date part
<larsu> no flower and no indicators
<seb128> weird
<seb128> it's like most services didn't start then I guess
<larsu> also no adb shell...
<seb128> right
<larsu> which is only enabled after unlocking
<seb128> since you are locked, no shell
<larsu> which is very annoying
<larsu> can I change that somehow?
<seb128> larsu, install a working image, install openssh-server, then change to systemd
<seb128> then enjoy the joy of being able to ssh while locked
<larsu> if the network's up before the failure I'm seeing...
<larsu> ah okay, this too was a systemd isseu
<larsu> turns out fastboot -c *does* work
<seb128> larsu, you can also "sudo touch /userdata/.adb_onlock"
<seb128> to allow adb while locked
<larsu> thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> Laney, can you retry the desktop-next iso build? ;-)
<Laney> umm, nope, looks like I can't ssh in
<Laney> I got a new ssh key with the laptop, let me ping IS
<seb128> thanks
<ochosi> Laney: woot, yours already arrived?
<ochosi> mine was finally shipped off today, so i suppose it'll be here before the official ETA of june 23rd
<Laney> ochosi: ya, it arrived on friday
<ochosi> nice, so even earlier than the corrected projected date
<Laney> hidpi and browsers is pretty :(
<ochosi> hah, you got the QHD+ version?
<Laney> indeed
<ochosi> yeah, the web isn't really ready
<ochosi> so i got the FHD version (also for battery life's sake)
<Laney> unity and gtk's scaling both work well
<ochosi> cool, i'll have to test that
<Laney> firefox doesn't even have an option to set a default zoom level
<Laney> you need an extension for that
<ochosi> that's meh
<ochosi> what about midori?
<Laney> don't know
<Laney> epiphany seemed quite good though
 * didrocks *cough* chromium *cough*
<Laney> (also with gestures)
<Laney> ah chromium has better sizing but for some reason its UI is huge
<ochosi> mhm, that would've been my next question (epiphany)
 * Laney has a note to ping chad about that :)
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/omg.png
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> did you compare this with Chrome?
<Laney> nein
<ochosi> wow, that's really pretty... sad
<Laney> I think it only very recently got hidpi stuff at all
<Laney> at least in Chromium
<ochosi> also, odd how the locationbar looks ok
<didrocks> chrome 43
<ochosi> seems to be only a font-size problem
<ochosi> Laney: and the touchpad works fine?
<Laney> yes although I want to turn off the right click area completely
<Laney> and just use two finger tap for that
<Laney> haven't done it yet though
<Laney> fn and ctrl are swapped compared to the macbook I had before (for 5 years)
<Laney> that's a bit annoying :)
<didrocks> yeah, needing to get some used to for such changes
<seb128> Laney, let me know if you get any reply from IS or if I should try to nag Colin or somebody else to retry the build
<Laney> seb128: done already, just need to set up the host keys and stuff
<seb128> great, thanks
<Laney> ok, it is running
<Laney> now seriously, I have no idea what in the hell is going on with my desktop and usd
 * Laney tries an old kernel just because
<seb128> trying to apply a buggy config?
<ochosi> Laney: hmm, right-click area doesn't sound very practical. but i'll see when i get mine
<seb128> try moving the monitors.xml away?
<Laney> I think it's before it gets there but yeah will try
<Laney> (it broke on lightdm too)
<seb128> weird
<seb128> lightdm doesn't use the user config, so not like that
<Laney> well I think I copied a monitors.xml somewhere a while ago
<Laney> but it definitely didn't change so it would be weird if that broke
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> ya, still fails
<seb128> new gtk issue?
<Laney> I've been running that for weeks
<Laney> gsd_rr_config.c:661
 * Laney needs to rebuild with noopt
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208560074/buildlog_ubuntu_wily_i386_ubuntu-desktop-next_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> now it wants me to add all the groups you made me drop on friday :-/
<Laney> I thought you copied the list from the system?
<seb128> yes, I did
<Laney> is this some later change?!?!?!
<Laney> "during setup"
<seb128> guess so
<Laney> this seems to have seeded packages
<seb128> not sure to understand what's going on
<Laney> I guess those weren't in it earlier on
 * didrocks goes for a run before it's too warm outside
<Laney> so you have to change the bits that are outputted to /etc/... but leave the hashes the same
<Laney> :/
<Laney> fun process
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy
<didrocks> thx
<seb128> Laney, like you would apply the diffs from the log to 00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early ?
<Laney> I think so
<Laney> I think the hash is the values just after debootstrap
<Laney> and then there is another check after all of the seeded packages have been put in
<Laney> but that doesn't check the hash again
<Laney> (it seems)
<seb128> right
<seb128> so basically it's putting back the version I had on friday ;-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> without docker and stuff
<seb128> just docker, which was a custom hack on the side
<seb128> let's see how that goes, trying to do a local build over lunch, it takes some time but I don't want to abuse the cdimage builders too much
<Laney> I should do it for just one arch
<flexiondotorg> Laney, I'm just back from vacation.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, can we discuss this please? - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1456597
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1456597 in ubuntu-mate-settings (Ubuntu) " ubuntu-mate-settings 0.4.5 release [debdiff attached]" [Wishlist,New]
<Laney> flexiondotorg: in a minute, fixing something atm
<Laney> flexiondotorg: you can get your previous sponsor to upload it if you really want to
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Thanks. I'll contact some other sponsors. I understand you're concerns and I am making upstream changes where possible.
<Laney> okay
<flexiondotorg> Laney, I'd like to understand the XDG_CONFIG_DIRS idea you suggested. Not encountered that env before.
<Laney> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Yeah, already reading that ;-)
<flexiondotorg> I'll poke around the code of the apps in questions to see if the use XDG.
<flexiondotorg> *they use
<Laney> flexiondotorg: I think I'm basically suggesting that if they don't then they should do ;-)
<Laney> tjaalton: hi, do you know if xmir made x break abi?
<Laney> [    81.641] (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so: undefined symbol: xorgMir
<Laney> wtf, I don't see exp1ubuntu2.2 in the archive?
<Laney> I feel like I'm disconnected from reality this morning
<Laney> oh yes, confirming my insanity further, I was typing -intel and not -nouveau :(
<Laney> works after a rebuild
<Laney> larsu: do you have a patch for the gnome-screenshot white flash issue hanging around?
<larsu> Laney: no.. didn't I give that to you at some point?
 * larsu cannot find it
<Laney> ah, don't know :(
<larsu> oops
<Laney> why does this work from jhbuild?
<larsu> dunno. Different gnome-screenshot?
<larsu> I forgot what the issue there was...
<larsu> wait - gnome doesn't use gnome-screenshot at all anymore, does it?
<Laney> no but we do
<larsu> right, and running that against gtk in jhbuild makes it work?
<Laney> I get different behaviour with our version
<Laney> it prompts for a filename by default
<Laney> bet there's a patch
<larsu> yes
<larsu> it is
 * Laney applies this one
<larsu> brb
<Laney> ah yes this happens
<Laney> I suppose because gnome-screenshot just exists otherwise
<Laney> larsu: I think the fix was to stop setting the visual on the flash window
<attente> mitya57: hey, i was referring to master at this commit: https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel/commit/05fd858ef84da971a98d4f68b25f4bd897676b43. when i tried running from that point, it still doesn't see those submenus properly
<Laney> s/exists/exits/
<Laney> hi attente!
<attente> hi Laney!
<Laney> what's up
<tjaalton> Laney: it probably did, blame ancell :)
<Laney> tjaalton: bah!
<Laney> should $package have changed its name?
<tjaalton> what pkg?
<Laney> that's what I'm asking
<Laney> there's nothing about xmir in nouveau's depends
<tjaalton> i'm not sure how the drivers became depending the module..
<tjaalton> i'm away this week, vmware already got rebuilt because of something, maybe the same issue
<tjaalton> tseliot: ^
<tjaalton> so perhaps all the video drivers need to be rebuilt..
<Laney> it seems like it had an exported xorgMir symbol before but doesn't now
<tjaalton> because xmir is no longer a module but a server of it's own
<tjaalton> see the recent announcement
<Laney> ah hmm
<tjaalton> so a well-tested transition ;)
<Laney> I think
<Laney> that when I rebuilt nouveau it probably built without the xmir patch being active any more
<Laney> #ifdef XMIR
<Laney> #include "xmir.h"
<Laney> #include "xf86Priv.h"
<Laney> #else
<Laney> typedef struct xmir_screen xmir_screen;
<Laney> #define xorgMir 0
<Laney> #endif
<Laney> and XMIR isn't defined any more after the new upload
<Laney> (that xorgMir symbol was exported in xf86Priv.h)
<Laney> tjaalton: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1462994 fyi
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1462994 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "2:1.17.1-0ubuntu4 broke xmir ABI" [Undecided,New]
<tjaalton> Laney: thanks!
<larsu> pitti: my problem turns out to be lightdm dying in a loop, because it can't call ActivateSession()
<pitti> larsu: hm, but adb also keeps failing?
<pitti> larsu: or, I guess you actually got that working now, to find out the ActivateSession() error?
<willcooke> A pigeon just flew in to my window at full speed.
<willcooke> I'm pretty sure its dead
<willcooke> #birdnews
<ogra_> :(
<davmor2> willcooke: man no wonder none of our messages get to you
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> Laney, is that gnome-screenshot hidpi patch a variant from https://code.launchpad.net/~woodrow-shen/gnome-screenshot/fix-hidpi.trusty/+merge/248486 ?
<Laney> I saw it there, going to give some feedback soon
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> I think gnome-screenshot isn't very active upstream
<seb128> Laney, no it's not :-/
<seb128> is your patch fixing the linked bug?
<seb128> or just addressing part of the issue?
<Laney> should do, let me close it
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> see you!
<pat__> cyphermox, hey just ran into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1436330 its still busted using the latest in proposed
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,Fix committed]
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
<willcooke> g'night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-09
<pitti> Good morning
<thumper> o/ pitti
<pitti> hey thumper!
<pitti> Laney: could you please verify bug 1444402 so that this can hit -updates soon?
<ubot5> bug 1444402 in systemd (Ubuntu Vivid) "LXC with r/w sys and udev keeps trying to unmount bind mounts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1444402
<larsu> good morning!
<pitti> good morning larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> pitti: great thanks! And you?
<pitti> good, thanks!
<larsu> pitti: so lightdm couldn't call ActivateSession() for me because it tries to activate the *current* session (and I was logged in via ssh)
<pitti> larsu: on the phone with systemd? or what's the context?
<larsu> pitti: ya
<pitti> larsu: oh, so does it boot if you don't have usb attached?
<larsu> pitti: got it to work after dist-upgrading and linking /sbin/init manually
<pitti> ah, cool
<larsu> yes, it boots fine
<larsu> but no lightdm
<larsu> it crashes in a loop
<pitti> err, that's not what I call "fine" then :)
<larsu> well, "finer" than it did before :P
<pitti> but if you can at least adb/ssh in, that's a nice foot in the door
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> where does lightdm log to?
<pitti> /var/log/lightdm/
<larsu> or shall I start it with -d in the unit?
<pitti> you can try (I'm not much of an expert with debugging lightdm, I mostly just look into /var/log/lightdm/)
<pitti> larsu: also look into the session logs
<pitti> larsu: i. e. ~/.config/upstart/ and stuff
<pitti> larsu: e. g. I had to fix bug 1451784 which had the same effect
<ubot5> bug 1451784 in ubuntu-touch-session (Ubuntu Wily) "ubuntu-touch-session fails to start under systemd" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1451784
<pitti> larsu: and there the error was in ~/.xsession-errors
<larsu> pitti: I don't know much about lightdm either. It says it cannot activate a user session, so it tries a "greeter session" (whatever that is)
<larsu> and fails because it can't find a configuration for that
<pitti> larsu: I suppose we don't have a greeter on touch
<pitti> larsu: anything in ~/.x-e?
<larsu> pitti: right, I assumed so
<larsu> lol...
<larsu> init: unrecognized option '--user'
<pitti> larsu: but that's the bug above
<pitti> larsu: what's your ubuntu-touch-session version?
<larsu> pitti: 0.108+15.04.20150407-0ubuntu1
<larsu> this is too old :/
<larsu> pitti: ya, that's why I was laughing
<larsu> how am I not getting the new package?
<pitti> install a current image?
<larsu> err... this is what I thought I did
<larsu> I followed https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<pitti> larsu: Usually the "devel" channel is ancient (maybe that got fixed now)
<pitti> larsu: try devel-proposed?
<pitti> you want that for development anyway
<larsu> BAH
<larsu> ok
<larsu> pitti: thanks. Why is our documentation outdated?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> larsu: not sure; /me not a phone dev
<pitti> larsu: anyway, I think "normal" users want a stable channel, and devs should really use devel-proposed, which updates more or less daily
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a peut aller, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien
<larsu> didrocks: morning!
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<larsu> pitti: fair enough. Still frustrating
<larsu> didrocks: turns out my bug was because I'm on an old image (who knew -devel is old...)
<larsu> pitti: thanks for your patience :)
<didrocks> larsu: don't talk to me about channel namingsâ¦
<didrocks> (and also out of date ubuntu-device-flash args which don't have stable parameters)
 * larsu stops talking to didrocks about channel namings
<didrocks> :p
<larsu> didrocks: what? They don't?
<didrocks> no
<didrocks> change $randomly
<didrocks> of course, all automation based on itâ¦
<didrocks> but well, if you ask for stability you are said to be anti-"agile"
<larsu> ah, you mean when they added the "touch" command?
<didrocks> that or change --foo in --bar
<didrocks> or add new --baz as being required
<didrocks> like the release version now
<mitya57> attente: Sure, but there was also https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel/commit/ba4369f6126a9828bb39528a43ee67ed6c1189ff
<mitya57> (after your commit)
<mitya57> And in https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel/commit/a64d64a4dffae3a56b6fd5a617b6c8ffb6b97546 the ifdefs were added
<mitya57> So I am sure it's a problem (or intended behavior) of this code, not a bug in Qt.
<mitya57> Also, I have limited internet access this week, so I am slow at replying.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> bah, typeahead stopped working in gtkfileselectors :-/
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> oh, right, it's that day of the week
<didrocks> yeo
<didrocks> yep*
<seb128> pitti, it seems that langpacks were not changed in the overlay ppa, do you know if Lucaz worked on that? I can do it now, just don't want to dup work
<pitti> seb128: I didn't get any status updates since we talked yesterday either
<seb128> pitti, k, let's wait for him then
<didrocks> he told he had an issue with it, right?
<seb128> didrocks, where/when?
<seb128> I was off for tennis in the evening
<didrocks> We noticed issues with our language pack generation mechanisms
<didrocks> which do not seem to be working for our stable overlay PPA.
<didrocks> in the landing team email
<seb128> oh, right
<seb128> that's the issue yes
<seb128> we agreed to manual patch those 4 strings translations for at least de/fr/es
<seb128> which is what I was asking about
<seb128> as a workaround
<didrocks> ah ok
<didrocks> so yeah, nothing more
<seb128> the issue with the overlay is that it's not translated/translatable in launchpad
<seb128> we have translations pages/templates for the ubuntu series and for trunk
<seb128> so vivid/wily/trunk
<didrocks> yeah, that makes sense
<seb128> but the overlay is none of those
<didrocks> ok, so only patching the .po files and reuploading
<seb128> yeah, for that one
<seb128> then we need to figure a proper way
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> didrocks, on your livecd-rootfs desktop-next change, Colin noted on the review that it might makes sense to use symlinks to ubuntu-core for some of the hooks, any reason you didn't do it?
<seb128> mvo_, ^
<didrocks> seb128: I would need to find my IRC logs, there was something, one secâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> the PM went on the fact that we'll probably deviate in the hooks
<didrocks> like you did with removing docker for instance
<didrocks> feel free to symlinks those which makes sense though
<seb128> k, thanks
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> wie gehts?
<Laney> kernel panic this morning
<Laney> xps 13 fun!
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> oh :-/
<Laney> otherwise good
<didrocks> argh
<seb128> didrocks, re :p
<didrocks> morning Laney :p
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> fine, yourself?
<seb128> Laney, didrocks, we got a desktop-next snappy i386 build ;-)
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-desktop-next/+build/29166
<seb128> it failed on amd64 though, unsure why
<didrocks> seb128: nice!
<Laney> woo!
<seb128> "+ cp -ar boot/vmlinuz-3.19.0-20-generic boot/vmlinuz-3.19.0-20-generic.efi.signed /tmp/tmp.yiVA0lx2A0/assets/vmlinuz
<seb128> cp: target '/tmp/tmp.yiVA0lx2A0/assets/vmlinuz' is not a directory"
<seb128> now to figure out how to make an image from those tarballs
<willcooke> seb128, @ image - NICE!!!
<seb128> willcooke, hey!
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> willcooke, waiting on sergiusens to be online now, mvo said he probaly knows how to make an image from those files
<willcooke> cool
<seb128> the current tools download the files from a server, they don't use local versions
<seb128> one way would be to publish the desktop-next files to the server, but it's not handy for local testing and bootstrap of the image
<Laney> system-image server?
<didrocks> it's assembling from a json file
<seb128> Laney, yes
<seb128> or whatever u-d-f uses to build the image
<didrocks> but yeah, would be better to get that copied in the server file
<Laney> seems that hook needs updating to take care of secure-boot stuff
<Laney> somehow
<seb128> you mean? the amd64 buildlog?
<Laney> ye
<Laney> i386 doesn't have that
<seb128> right
<Laney> and it looks like core doesn't have the signed stuff either
<seb128> https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/goget-ubuntu-touch/uefi/+merge/256869
<seb128> is how core gets its uefi/secure boot working
<Laney> maybe ask him to fix it up for us ;-)
<seb128> Laney, yeah, let's see :-)
<Laney> pitti: let me see - hope that instance is still up
<Laney> I have wily on the real system now
<Laney> might help to enable proposed...
<seb128> speaking about the image build or something else?
<Laney> no, some sru
<seb128> k
<pitti> Laney: cheers!
<seb128> pitti, just as a fyi we patched/uploaded to the vivid overlay ppa the langpacks for ca/de/es/fr/it/pt
<pitti> seb128: cool, thanks
<seb128> so we should be fine for the ota now
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> patching the langpacks?
<seb128> Laney, in the overlay ppa yes
<seb128> you didn't follow the discussion on ci-eng yesterday I guess?
<Laney> no
<Laney> I think it's okay if I don't know :-)
<seb128> basically the ppa has no translations support
<seb128> translations.l.n has templates for ubuntu series and trunk
<seb128> but the ppa is random content
<Laney> oh right I can see where this is going
<seb128> so langpack miss strings that are specific to it
<Laney> so you miss new strings
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we had 4 new ones in dialer/messaging for that ota
<seb128> so we just distro patched those in main languages to be able to roll the ota out as planned
<seb128> still need to solve the infra issue
<seb128> like by using wily/trunk strings and merging template or something
<seb128> or changing back from a ppa to a rtm distro
<seb128> tbd
 * Laney rebuilds packages for broken devhelp files
<Laney> silly gtk-doc
<Laney> xnox: can you remind me where the place to set ubiquity's start page is please?
<Laney> I want to get it to start straight at the slideshow
<xnox> Laney: you may run the slideshow demo runner in the slideshow upstream branch.
<xnox> Laney: or you can reorder the "pages" plugins. oh wait the slideshow in ubiquity is not a page, but a hidden notebook.
<Laney> I need to see it as it is in ubiquity
<xnox> Laney: tweak it to be not hidden.
<xnox> e.g. skip to it.
 * Laney twirls
<xnox> purge partman plugin, and then ubiquity becomes a dummy app =)
<Laney> ok, neat, don't see the bug that I thought I did
<xnox> Laney: what bug? scrollbars?
<Laney> ya
<xnox> Laney: they come and go, depending on the gtk changes, language, running "installer" for real, overlay scrollbars (missing, getting renamed, changing pixel size) etc.
<Laney> I thought I saw them when I installed wily on this laptop the other day
<Laney> but they aren't there in this vm
<Laney> (Y)
<xnox> Laney: i had to fix them each overlay-scrollbar and/or gtk update =(
<Laney> overlay-scrollbar is gone
<Laney> muhahah
<xnox> well. as long as the themeing that we apply to webview is correct than it's all good.
<xnox> Laney: did you drop ubiquity-dm force loading overlay-scrollbar modules then?!
<Laney> not yet but that's harmless
<xnox> *mostly
 * Laney meows
 * ogra_ moos
 * davmor2 bah humbugs
<Laney> larsu: do you run with hidpi scaling?
<Laney> GDK_SCALE=2 gedit -> the toolbar is huuuugeeeee
<larsu> Laney: nope
<larsu> isn't the point that it is huge?
<Laney> not that huge
<larsu> hm, this does look a bit too large indeed
<larsu> looks like 4Ã
<Laney> gtk_toolbar_set_icon_size (toolbar, GTK_ICON_SIZE_SMALL_TOOLBAR); makes it right
<Laney> but doing this feels wrong
<larsu> clearly
<larsu> fonts are too large as well
<Laney> the default seems to be LARGE
<larsu> something is multiplying that factor twice
<larsu> oh wait, fonts appear huge but seem to be twice the height from my normal font
<larsu> Laney: using the slider in system settings Â» displays makes it look similarily huge
<Laney> that sets the same scale factor
<Laney> you can use the env var to just do it once
<happyaron> willcooke: weekly update sent to you
<willcooke> thx happyaron
<larsu> Laney: not quite. Gdk can only do integer scaling, whereas the slider does floating point
<Laney> only for unity
<innopark> my ubuntu desktop always gets hangs up
 * Laney aahs
<Laney> I played with the slider and now my mouse pointer has gone
<seb128> larsu, Laney, is the unity panel title "wrongly styled" for you as well? text used to be bold and isn't anymore, unsure if that's due to new gtk
<larsu> seb128: still bold for me. You mean the title of the application, right?
<Laney> It isn't bold here and I don't have 3.16 on the laptop yet
<seb128> larsu, yes
<seb128> same issue in compiz titles in fact
<seb128> not only in the unity panel
<seb128> Laney, wily or vivid?
<seb128> I'm pretty sure it was bold in vivid and wily until like a week ago
<larsu> compiz titles?
<Laney> wily
<seb128> larsu, wm decorations
<Laney> checked iso, bold vivid and not bold wily
<seb128> k
 * Laney phews at gtk not being to blame :-)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> did we change the theme in wily? I guess not
<seb128> unity didn't change either afaik
 * seb128 scratches head
<larsu> hm, maybe I should reboot?
 * larsu still sees bold titles
<Laney> probably not worth everyone looking at it
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, Trevinho, ^ is that a known issue?
<seb128> larsu, maybe just restart compiz?
<larsu> seb128: indeed. thanks. Now here's a question:
<larsu> WHY ARE MY WINDOW TITLES NOT BOLD ANYMORE?????
<Laney> when did you boot?
<Laney> /log in previously
<larsu> Laney: 7 days ago
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, I started noticing yesterday, that issue is less than a week old
<Laney> 'kay
<seb128> Laney, larsu, I had a glance to wily-changes and didn't see anything obvious, I'm not going to debug today but feel free to have a look
<pitti> larsu: wow, were they bold before? I honestly can't remember
<pitti> (normal font here as well)
<larsu> pitti: I just restarted compiz and saw the immediate effect
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: It's not a known issue to me, but I do see what you're talking about.  Trevinho would probably know more though.
<larsu> pitti: my outrage was mostly to troll seb128 :)
<seb128> pitti, yeah, e.g http://cdn5.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/03_in_the_windows_title_bar.png
<didrocks> my precious panel!
<seb128> lol
<pitti> didrocks, Laney, desrt: ooh, coming to debconf too? looking forward to it!
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> did you get some email?
<didrocks> same question than Laney ;)
<pitti> Laney: Michelle just pointed me to the travel doc
<Laney> ah
<didrocks> ah, there is a travel doc :p
<pitti> I was talking to her about plumbers vs. debconf conflict, and that I self-booked debconf already
<Laney> going to be fun
<Laney> I'm thinking about being there for some of debcamp too
<pitti> I wanted to, but we'll attend a wedding on Aug 15 in Magdeburg, so I'll only arrive on Sun
<Laney> there's a half week gap or so between guadec and debconf
<Laney> probably won't go home for that
<pitti> Laney:  when is guadec?
<Laney> I think 7th-12th including the hackfest days
<Laney> and debcamp starts the 9th
<Laney> so I'm not sure yet exactly how I will divide myself up
<seb128> didrocks, going to debconf this year?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, not far, has to go at least once I guess :)
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> I was pondering going as well
<seb128> but seems like my name is not on the list
<seb128> oh well, another time ;-)
<Laney> it's not finalised yet
<Laney> (afaik)
<Laney> willcooke: get this man on the list!
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, where did you guys ask to be on the list?
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<Laney> I think there was some mail a few months ago
<Laney> and I did some light nagging since
<seb128> k
<Laney> basically ask $boss
<seb128> yeah, I guess :-)
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> seb128: we discussed it in our last sprint as well IIRC
<didrocks> Laney: we can write up something around the line: "the German in Germany" (note the non s at German) ;)
<seb128> lol
<Laney> die Deutsch in Deutschland
<Laney> (die?)
<pitti> seb128: I also just signed up myself about a month ago, I didn't know that Canonical was sponsoring
<pitti> Laney: "Der Deutsche in Deutschland"
<Laney> larsu: any idea about the toolbar thing? should I file a bug?
<Laney> pitti: isn't that plural?
<pitti> not if it was supposed to be for "the German" (single person for seb128), I thought that was the intent?
<Laney> ya
<Laney> ah I get this now, thanks!
<pitti> plural would be "die Deutschen"
<larsu> Laney: sure
<Laney> cool
<didrocks> Laney is only getting half of my joke :/
 * didrocks organizes a protest then
<Laney> I got it man
<attente> mitya57: yeah, those commits were added to workaround the submenu problem. if you check out the tree at https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel/commit/05fd858ef84da971a98d4f68b25f4bd897676b43, it still doesn't work, so we can't revert those two commits
<mitya57> attente: OK, then I'll look at it when I return to normal internet (maybe on Friday or weekend)
<mitya57> Re-added to my TODO :(
<mitya57> Err, I meant :)
<attente> mitya57: ok, thanks :)
<larsu> desrt: this should work no: gsettings list-keys org.gnome.Terminal.Legacy.Profile:/org/gnome/terminal/legacy/profiles/b1dcc9dd-5262-4d8d-a863-c897e6d979b9/
<larsu> someone's asking in #ubuntu-devel
<desrt> list-keys has no dependency on path
<desrt> so i'm not sure why you'd give one
<larsu> list-recursively, sorry
<larsu> it shows me default values, no matter which path I pass
<larsu> desrt: ^
<desrt> interesting.
<desrt> that may be a bug.
<larsu> ok. was thinking I might be doing something wrong
 * larsu passes this info on
<jdstrand> seb128: hey, this is a total throw a patch over the wall situation: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11672890/. I'm using it for dnla in rhythmbox and have no particular reason to choose 15000 (it is just high enough for me :)
<jdstrand> seb128: fyi only in case you find it interesting
<jdstrand> if you don't want to do anything with it, that's fine too
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, I'm not familiar with that feature, how annoying is the "requiring the user to ask for more"?
<seb128> jdstrand, could you maybe throw it on a bug in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=rhythmbox just in case upstream is interested?
<jdstrand> seb128: how I experienced it was I opened a playlist. it download 1000. I could play and do whatever with those 1000 and wasn't blocked by ui. but there was a button at the bottom right that said I could download another 1000
<jdstrand> seb128: so, depending on the playlist, I might have to click it 5, 8, etc times
<jdstrand> seb128: and you have to do that each time you open the playlist
<sidi> Hi, I need to trace all the processes starting and exiting in my unity session from the moment Ligthdm creates the session. I get a series of weird crashes that I can-t reproduce with unity --debug and I can't identify which processes are crashing
<xnox> sidi: ~/.cache/upstart & ~/.xsession-errors
<xnox> should have everything
<sidi> xnox, thanks. Does .cache/upstart contain all processes or only the ones that crashed?
<xnox> sidi: it contains stdout/stderr of all upstart managed user processes. the rest of unmanaged things end up just in ~/.xsession-errors
<sidi> Also is there anything I can do to find out which processes execve'd which ones, apart from injecting a lib that watches execve? My compiz is actually crashing on a dlopen() call so that wouldn't work well...
<xnox> cause session leader is upstart, and that logs to ~/.xsession-errors as everything gets reparented to it on death.
<xnox> sidi: you should look into proc_cn proc connector. That will tell you everything from the kernel =)
<xnox> sidi: https://outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/07/01/reporting-all-execs/
<xnox> has a link to kees' source code, compiles with a makefile from his junk folder and runs amazing.
<sidi> ah cool, thanks!
<xnox> that will tell you _everything_ that execed by who and what and where.
<sidi> Cool I'll make a run with that once done with .cache/upstart
<xnox> sidi: mind need to tweak the mask of the events reported to get all details, cause it's a firehose that track threads et.al.
<xnox> initctl status
<xnox> initctl list
<xnox> may help to narrow things down quickly, if managed.
<jdstrand> seb128: ok, reported
<sidi> one last thing, I haven't used ubuntu in a while... I see there's no compiz-dbg package, do I have a way to tell apt-get to give me a package with debugging symbols on, or should I build that myself?
<xnox> sidi: google for debugsyms repository
<sidi> xnox, I'm willing to spend time reading logs... I need to figure out what's going on anyway
<sidi> Awesome, thanks xnox
<seb128> jdstrand, thanks!
<qengho> ahem.
<larsu> *cough*
 * didrocks taps on the mic
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> hey
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun  9 15:31:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong, happyaron(out), laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, tkamppeter, themuso (out), robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> didrocks, let the tap alone, it's not beer time
<larsu> o/
 * larsu thinks about having a beer
<seb128> lol
<dgadomski> o/
 * larsu doesn't have beer at home
 * didrocks put the beer back in the fridge then
 * FJKong feel sleepy
<didrocks> puts*
<larsu> lol
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: attente
<attente> refreshed the gtk source package with some patches to fix the build, and merged the wip/mir-unstable branch into upstream gtk
<attente> spent some time debugging the fcitx-qimpanel qt5 indicator without luck, hoping mitya57 has more luck with it
<attente> finished the apparmor client api changes, writing regression tests
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<qengho> FJKong: because of beer, or because it's almost midnight for you?
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: desrt
<FJKong> qengho: 23:33 for me
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: dgadomski
<larsu> willcooke: desrt is excusing himself
<dgadomski> hello everyone
<dgadomski> * I was off for most of the last week
<dgadomski> * improved and delivered patch to bug #753755 to Debian, waiting for their response, in parallel I'm running testing in VMs with different network configurations
<dgadomski> * a user reported a problem with no sound after installing Vivid. It works while running Trusty LiveCD, but fails on Vivid - even with the latest available kernel. The hardware is: Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 02). Investigating that further. Did you hear about any
<ubot5> bug 753755 in Software Updater "upgrade from 10.10 to 11.04 impossible" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753755
<dgadomski> Did you hear about any regressions in the sound area in Vivid?
<willcooke> dgadomski, dont think so, drop Luke an email to see if he knows anything though
<dgadomski> thanks willcooke, that's all from me today
<willcooke> thx dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> * Was for most of the week at SDK sprint, got synced up with the team and incoming features (for developer experience convergence mostly).
<didrocks> * Reported and got some of the first SDK-related issues fixed. Here is my personal list of bugs and tagged "devexp": http://bit.ly/1FVUp2j
<didrocks> * Ubuntu Make 0.8.1 release fixing Android NDK as google pages changed (bug report + test failing to proove it)
<didrocks> * Reinstantiated Ubuntu Make test machines as were down due to IS breakage
<didrocks> * Short week (4 days)
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thx didrocks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> analyze crash file of sogou-qimpanel, it's about cell dict problem
<FJKong> give feed back to sogou engineer, waiting for fixing
<FJKong> research on "slow on first time call out IM"
<FJKong> continue on "right click menu on input window"
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thx FJKong
<willcooke> goodnight FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. Release fcitx 4.2.9, providing better xkb support  (through
<willcooke> libxkbcommon) along with other fixes
<willcooke> 2. Work out the product requirement document for sogoupinyin-2.0
<willcooke> series with product manager
<willcooke> 3. Working on the problem of automoc generated contents when combined with ECM
<FJKong> rush to bed...
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Updates: gsettings-desktop-schemas gtk-doc glib (in progress)
<Laney> â¢ Finish up gtk3.0 fo realz, upload, stuck in proposed
<Laney> â Fixed a load of test regressions (only one was related - a deprecation and fatal warnings)
<Laney> â Tied with gnome-shell, do some updates with that, blocked atm
<Laney> â Check that no o-s didn't make ubiquity slideshow have scrollbars (thought it had done), seems it didn't
<Laney> â¢ Rebuild some packages which were built with gtk-doc 1.23 & had broken devhelp files
<Laney> â¢ Get a hidpi laptop(!), find some bugs, fix a couple & nag about some others
<Laney> â¢ Fix up yelp headerbar-as-toolbar patch re: upstream review
<Laney> â¢ Chat about/help fix desktop-next snappy build - some code advice, some cdimage changes, some triggering of builds
<Laney> â¢ Help (more? can't remember if I did this the week before) with some robustification of boottests
<Laney> â¢ Debug system breakage which turned out to be due to new xmir, filed a bug which it seems robert_ancell fixed
<Laney> â¢ Some SRU verification and checking on test regressions for the SRU team
<Laney> â¢ Some chats about totem patch, need to upload still
<Laney> FIN (no unicode â¹)
<seb128> busy week for Laney
<didrocks> â¢ Closed the front gate (thanks mailman)
<willcooke> thx Laney
<seb128> Laney, what is blocking gtk atm?
<Laney> demoting some shell extensions to proposed
<seb128> k
<Laney> want to work on that in a minute?
<seb128> sur
<seb128> e
<Laney> gnome guys don't care if they are in or not
<Laney> so seems fine by me
<Laney> thanks
<seb128> +1
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> hey
<larsu> - overlay-scrollbars: review Laney's drop-gtk3 patch (thanks!); dropped background hacks; themed them orange
<Laney> didrocks: Ã6
<larsu> - started helping pitti out a bit with migrating touch to systemd
<larsu> (and wasted some time debugging issues on the wrong image)
<larsu> </larsu>
<larsu> - prepared for the sales meeting
<Laney> you should put the </ as part of your paste
<larsu> why?
<Laney> that came in the middle :)
<larsu> oh. sorry.
 * larsu curses irssi
<Laney> PARSE ERROR
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: qengho
<larsu> Laney: not well formed xml, but might be ok as html5
<qengho> - Cr release 43.0.2357.81 into T,U,V,W any second now.
<qengho> - Flash plugin updated upstream today, but no one sent us notice beforehand. :(
<qengho> - mir ozone refresh. Trying to make the ozone interface break less often. Coming along really well, for once.
<qengho> ^D
<willcooke> thx qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: seb128
 * Laney hopes this new chromium has nice(r) hidpi chrome
<seb128> â¢ took some tries but got snappy to boot on my uefi config
<seb128> â¢ debugged desktop-next snappy image build
<seb128> â updated u-s-s to not try to pull the touch system-image service on snappy systems, they conflict
<seb128> â fixed some small livecd-rootfs in the desktop-next codepath, thanks Laney for helping!
<seb128> â iterated over issues and fixes until today where we got a first working build (i386 only, amd64 having secure boot issues)!
<seb128> â¢ u-s-s
<seb128> â fixed charge graphs rendering glitches
<seb128> â added mechanism to list panels only if a file exists, used for the update/snappy
<seb128> â backported a stack of commits to the vivid branch
<seb128> â¢ joined some discussions about convergence&settings
<seb128> â¢ tested telephony-service build fixes to be able to confirm the silent mode bugfix from previous week
<seb128> â¢ next: continuing fun trying to get the snappy image working, we have device/rootfs tarballs now but not yet a bootable image
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thx seb128
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: seb128
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - first packaged builds of LibreOffice 5.0~beta1 and ~beta2 on vivid
<Sweet5hark> - breaks on amd64 due to some l10n/helpcontent foo -- fixing that right now
<Sweet5hark> - beta2 isnt going to be published for public consumption, "cant move cursor" is kind of a blocker
<Sweet5hark> - beta3 will be there soon
<Sweet5hark> - some conference and affiliation-foo
<Sweet5hark> - push some 20 refactoring patches upstream (and broke OSX :/)
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thx Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Synced CUPS from Debian
<tkamppeter> - Added last changes of our CUPS package to Debian's GIT repository of CUPS
<tkamppeter> - Made starting ippusbxd (daemon for IPP-over-USB printers) working with systemd.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs
<willcooke> thx tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * More upstream Speech Dispatcher development work, moving more code to Glib and moving to GSettings.
<willcooke> * Started further discussions with Qt and Mir folks to get a11y moving forward for the unity 8 desktop again.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Updated wily to run new XMir
<willcooke> - Updated Launchpad XMir bugs to be filed in correct location
<willcooke> - Investigated XMir window manager options
<willcooke> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316" | Desktop Weekly Meeting 2015-06-09 | Current topic: Any other business
<willcooke> News:
<willcooke> I will be out next week and the week after for baby related business
<willcooke> Seb can you run the meetings?
<seb128> sure
<willcooke> I'll probably be on email and stuff - I certainly won't be far from a computer
<Laney> don't do it man
<larsu> willcooke: I might not make the Friday 1:1 due to travel. Will let you know.
<willcooke> larsu, sure thing, no problem
<larsu> willcooke: also, go further away from a computer
<larsu> ;)
<didrocks> :)
<willcooke> I don't know if I can do it, but I will try
<larsu> it's hard. We've all been there
<willcooke> How will I see pictures of cats though???
<willcooke> These are the questions no one is answering
<larsu> sometimes there are animals outside which look like cat pictures
<willcooke> ???
<willcooke> Hrm
<willcooke> Well, I'll try it
<larsu> outside is this place beyond your front door
<Laney> the place through the open gate
<Laney> :|
<larsu> HAHA
<Trevinho> seb128: titlebar text depends on gnome wm settings...
<seb128> Trevinho, so I guess a setting change in the gnome updates, thanks
<Trevinho> seb128: so... Not sure if that changed (I noticed the issue, but I didn't look at the setting change yet)
<Trevinho> seb128: there are two things in action there
<willcooke> anything else for meeting before we wrap?
<Trevinho> seb128: one is "use the same of system font", and "titlebar font"
<seb128> willcooke, don't think so
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Breaking your systems: GTK 3.16 - file bugs with tag "gtk316"
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun  9 15:49:09 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-06-09-15.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks call
<willcooke> all
<didrocks> seb128: did you document what you did to get snappy to boot on your uefi config?
<larsu> Trevinho: I don't think that controls whether the font is bold, though
<seb128> didrocks, no, it was code fixes and they are in wily
<didrocks> seb128: oh nice!
<seb128> didrocks, so it's just "use the current u-d-f version"
<didrocks> great news
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> oh yes
<Laney> it is that titlebar-uses-system-font pref
<seb128> Laney, yet another one to add to ubuntu-settings override I guess?
<seb128> I can do it if you want
<Laney> if you want, I don't care either way
<Laney> unbold looks good to me
<larsu> indeed
<larsu> setting it to false makes the title bold again
<seb128> I like bold better
<larsu> I agree with seb128
<Laney> GO FOR IT!
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> Laney: as of the last update, epiphany is unbearably slow
<larsu> did you notice something?
<Laney> update of what?
<larsu> I assume webkit
<larsu> but don't know for sure
<Laney> no sorry
<larsu> just seeing it in an epiphany web app
<Laney> does it use webkit2?
<Laney> actually neither version has been updated for a while
<larsu> weird
<Laney> epiphany itself was though
<Laney> but that's not our team, more ubuntu gnome
 * Laney slippery hands
<larsu> hihi
<Laney> BAH
<Laney> no-change rebuild of gtk -> now caught up with some random other test failures
<Laney> this situation is bad
<larsu> non deterministic tests?
<Laney> they might be real
<Laney> not caused by this though
<larsu> irght
 * Laney needs to go drink tea outside
<Laney> can't face this right now
<Laney> back in 5
<larsu> enjoy!
<Laney> "did president obama drink beer in the morning, and if he did - is it okay in bavaria?
<Laney> we hear live from a bavarian beer merchant"
 * Laney is looking forward to hearing this item on the radio
<larsu> haha
<desrt> 3g tethering on train = slow
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_fourfm
<desrt> train's wfii = worse
<Laney> ok, brb!
<larsu> desrt: don't travel during meeting times ;)
<Trevinho> larsu: well, depends on what font you've set as system and what as titlebar (if not system one is used for titlebar)
<desrt> srsly... they use the wifi on this thing as a selling point
 * desrt wants money back
<seb128> Laney, larsu, Trevinho, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/15.10.3
<Laney> nice
<Laney> see you!
<didrocks> see you Laney
<willcooke> g'night all
<asterai> Hi guys, )))
<asterai> I registered on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ and now i looking for a some trivial task.
<asterai> My some on help me, to delegate(assignate) a task?
<asterai> *May
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-10
<robert_ancell> bregma, I'm updating the metacity package and it changes the soname for libmetacity-private. This means compiz-gnome needs to be rebuilt. Have you done a migration like this before?
<robert_ancell> bregma, bug 1463645
<ubot5> bug 1463645 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Update metacity to 3.16" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463645
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Good morning! We seem to have some SRU autopkgtests failing due to test environment changes.
<RAOF> I understand that you're on the hook for doing something about that? :)
<pitti> RAOF: in trusty mostly, right?
<RAOF> pitti: Yah.
<pitti> RAOF: yeah, some of the tests fail because they expect their build dependencies to be installed
<RAOF> Right.
<pitti> we could fix them in trusty by SRUing the fixed tests if we care, but for the user that'd be a no-op update
<pitti> we don't have the old infrastructure any more which ran tests with the null runner
<RAOF> There was another one that seemed odd; âfailed to find parent run by non-rootâ seemed to be the relevant output.
<RAOF> But I can't remember which particular adt job that was.
<pitti> RAOF: haven't seen that one -- is that a jenkins or a test error message?
<RAOF> It looked like it was an test runner error message.
<RAOF> It didn't look like it had actually started running the tests.
<pitti> RAOF: then these should just be retried; might be just another jenkins glitch?
<RAOF> Might be? It was one of the gvfs rdepend failures, which seemed to have hung around for some time.
<pitti> RAOF: looking at the trusty gtk+3.0 rdeps
<pitti> deja-dup: missing dbus-x11 test dep
<pitti> notify-osd: doesn't say (darn parallel test runner), but presumably missing xvfb or something such (also fixed in utopic and later)
<pitti> ubuntu-release-upgrader> not sure, there are multiple errors there; "None is not true" doesn't help much
<pitti> perhaps due to missing at-spi-core or so ("The name org.a11y.Bus was not provided by any .service files", but that's just a warning)
<pitti> update-manager> 'HTTP Error 405: Method Not Allowed'
<pitti> may be due to changed proxy settings; we can't just switch that back either
<RAOF> Oooh, I downloaded the log!
<RAOF> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11688382/ is the log with the weird non-root message.
<RAOF> http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-gvfs/lastBuild/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/
<pitti> apport> not sure about that, but it never succeeded in trusty with teh current infrastructure either; needs a test fix backport and closer investigation
<RAOF> trusty-gvfs
<sarnold> that's a string from gvfs
<pitti> gvfs> "Did not find a parent process that runs as non-root"> that was fixed in gvfs-testbed in utopic, needs backport
<RAOF> Ah, good.
<pitti> RAOF: ah, so that's what you saw, right
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> It didn't look like it actually got to running a test, but clearly it did.
<pitti> so, we could fix the tests if/when we SRU these packages, but not sure if we should do SRUs *just* for test fixes
<pitti> there's loads of them; the current infrastructure wasn't really meant to run trusty tests; we knew that a lot of the ones in trusty were broken and only worked due to the deficiencies of the null runner
<RAOF> So, we can basically ignore trusty SRU adt failures, then?
<pitti> the ones which never succeeded since we turned on SRU testing for trusty, yes
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti RAOF
<pitti> or, we have to fix them all, but that's a rather large undertaking
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<RAOF> Hey seb128
<RAOF> pitti: Can we detect those never-passed ones, and not show them on pending-sru as regressions?
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<pitti> RAOF: replied to the ML
<pitti> RAOF: yes; preferably through the britney override branch (I think slangasek and bdmurray discussed that yesterday, not sure of the outcome), and if that doesn't work, we can hack the history file
<RAOF> infinity was also talking about it this morning.
<pitti> RAOF: e. g. http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Vivid/view/AutoPkgTest/job/vivid-adt-click/ looks like an "honest" regression somewhere
<pitti> vivid regressions should be fairly real; utopic still has some infrastructure related regressions, trusty's are mostly due to a completely different infra
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> seb128: 32 bits of visual studio code coming in next ubuntu make release
<seb128> didrocks, oh, nice ;-)
<larsu> bonjour!
<seb128> hey larsu
<didrocks> morning larsu
<larsu> hi seb128, didrocks! Ãa va?
<pitti> hey willcooke, hello larsu
<larsu> hi pitti :)
<larsu> morning willcooke
<seb128> larsu, oui, et toi ?
<larsu> seb128: nickel, merci!
<Laney> hey hey
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> yo dawg
<Laney> what is up?
<larsu> sun!
<larsu> very up
<Laney> not here
<larsu> :/
<Laney> lend me a bit
<larsu> come on over
<Laney> oh yeah good plan
<Laney> brb plane
<willcooke> goodly morloade Laney
 * larsu makes some tea for Laney 
<Laney> ahoy willcooke
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Mr Laney
<larsu> pitti: what's responsible for mounting the filesystem writable when /userdata/.writable_image is there?
<larsu> booting with systemd makes it ro for me again
<ogra_> larsu, the initrd
<larsu> hm, that shouldn't have changed though, right
<ogra_> but !
<ogra_> i'm not sure core allows that at all :)
<ogra_> your desktop-next is based on core, not touch
<larsu> talking about tough
<larsu> *touch
<ogra_> ah, k
<ogra_> yeah, thats the phone initrd
<larsu> weird
<ogra_> the initrd does the low level partition mounting and feeds all writable paths into fstab ... the boind mounting of the writable b its then happens from whatever processes fstab (mountall, systemd-fstab)
<Laney> it puts something in kmsg
<Laney> mounting or mounting in developer mode or something
<Laney> so you can see if it reads the file right
<ogra_> so i guess systemd-fstab behaves a little different to mountall here
<ogra_> (or you end uzp with the writable partition in fstab, which shouldnt be the case)
<ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch/wily/view/head:/scripts/touch#L316
<larsu> ogra_: thanks! fstab lists the rootfs as ro, even though writable_image is there
<larsu> Laney: nothing of the sort..
<ogra_> larsu, with a partition name ?
<larsu> no, /dev/root
<ogra_> /dev/root / rootfs defaults,ro 0 0 is fine
<larsu> but then there should be something mounting / as rw?
 * ogra_ must admit he hasnt used writable by default in ages ... remounting rw for the moment i need it feels a lot cleaner
<larsu> fair enough :)
<ogra_> but our tests that run for every build are all on writable devices
<ogra_> (the CI automation stuff too)
<larsu> ya, it worked fine until I linked /sbin/init to systemd
 * larsu is trying to find the cause now
<ogra_> as Laney said, check dmesg for "initrd: mounting system.img (image developer mode)"
<ogra_> to make sure the initrd side is fine
<larsu> ya, it doesn't say this
<ogra_> wow, thats weird
<ogra_> what phone is that ?
<Laney> "(user mode)" seems to be the other case
<larsu> nexus 4
<ogra_> /sbin/init doesnt have any effect at that point in the boot
<pitti> larsu: hm, I don't know I'm afraid
<ogra_> (or, well, shouldnt have :P )
<larsu> ogra_: I did a dist-upgrade as well, maybe this isn't init's fault. let me check
<ogra_> urgh
<larsu> so ya, I get that message in dmesg now
 * larsu <- confused
<Laney> pitti: have you seen the chromium-browser autopkgtest failure (ENOSPC)? any way the node can get some more space?
<pitti> Laney: FYI, for your upower build, I'm on the broken umockdev
<Laney> hah
<Laney> hello!
<Laney> I'm fixing the gjs (real) failure right now, F*Y*I :)
<pitti> I'm waiting on LP to import 0.8.10-2 from Debian, then I'll sync, and the tests should be happy again
<pitti> Laney: LibO fails on that as well, looking
 * Laney blehs at people disabling testsuites
<Laney> s/disabling/|| true-ing/
<seb128> libO keeps sending "dual jenkins emails"
<seb128> it fails
<seb128> or it's fixed
<seb128> it fails
<seb128> oh it's fixed
<seb128> ...
<pitti> hm, neither / nor /run/shm is full on alderamin
<Laney> it's failed on wazn and aldebaran too
<Laney> seems systemic
<pitti> perhaps they have finally exceeded our default VM size of 10G
<pitti> err, 50G
<Laney> surely not
<pitti> but that would be gross
<pitti> hm, wait
<pitti> none             16G  200M   16G   2% /run/shm
<pitti> jibel: ^ didn't these machines use to have 64G?
<pitti> Laney: ok, that might be it; running locally to confirm, but it seems somehow these machines lost a lot of RAM
<pitti> Laney: so I guess I'll invent an override mechamism to run these big packages on an overlay in /tmp/ instead of /run/shm/
<davmor2> pitti: did you repartition?
<pitti> davmor2: no, I don't have root on these machines, and partitions are fine
<davmor2> pitti: meh sorry something else all together
<pitti> hah, we already have that mechanism
<pitti> ./etc/adt.d/linux:USESHM=false
<pitti> ./etc/adt.d/libreoffice:USESHM=false
 * pitti will enable that for chromium-browser then; but why did libo fail then
<pitti> http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Wily/view/AutoPkgTest/job/wily-adt-chromium-browser/lastBuild/ARCH=i386,label=adt/consoleText definitively has -o /run/shm
<pitti> but http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Wily/view/AutoPkgTest/job/wily-adt-libreoffice/lastBuild/ARCH=i386,label=adt/consoleText doesn't
<pitti> jibel: ah, wazn and albali do have a 32 G /run/shm, so I guess alderamin just never had
<jibel> pitti, yeah, alramin was the only machine with only 32G of RAM
<jibel> alderamin*
<pitti> jibel: I added USESHM=no for chromium-browser and re-ran; stil not sure about libo, I'm investigating
<pitti> bah
<pitti> http://d-jenkins.ubuntu-ci:8080/view/Wily/view/AutoPkgTest/job/wily-adt-chromium-browser/39/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/consoleFull
<pitti> same "disk full" without /run/shm/, so that isn't it
<pitti> and running this locally on alderamin works fine
<jibel> pitti, with the same base VM?
<pitti> yes; re-running the exact command from the jenkins run now, with -proposed
<pitti> and watching df in the VM
<pitti> tmpfs           2.0G   69M  1.9G   4% /tmp
<pitti> hah! that would be it
<pitti> Laney: ack, looking at that; auto-mounting /tmp as tmpfs seems to be from systemd 220, seems our patch to not do that doesn't work any more
<Laney> pitti: ah, right, so it's at least a real regression somewhere
 * Laney wonders why shotwell started failing in the same way again
<Laney> passes on my real system :(
<pitti> Laney: umockdev
<pitti> Laney: libudev 220 changed behaviour a bit, umockdev needs to follow along
<Laney> ah
<pitti> Laney: should reproduce with --apt-pocket=proposed -U
<Laney> probably; I just ran d/t/...
<Laney> is that breaking gvfs too?
<Laney> I wish adt-run would say in which way test-deps are unsatisfiable
<pitti> Laney: it usually does
<pitti> Laney: well, it calls apt-get with Debug::pkgProblemResolver
<pitti> that isn't very readable I'm afraid
<pitti> but at least it's there
<pitti> Laney: gvfs> yes, the Gphoto test uses umockdev too
<pitti> Laney: and ubuntu-drivers-common
<Laney> pitti: ah, right, yes - the output is further up
<Laney> it's readable if you know how - for kde-gtk-config it's quite simple looking anyway. :)
<seb128> Laney, can you retry desktopnext cdimage build?
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> I'm goign to set up this team
<Laney> (later)
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, oh, I forgot to follow up after the meeting yesterday about those gnome-shell-extensions/gtk, what was that?
<seb128> Laney, also you retried desktop-next on amd64 only?
<seb128> mvo, livecd-rootfs 500-move-kernel-to-device-tar.binary has its name on it ... maybe you can help there :-)
<seb128> mvo, " cp -ar boot/vmlinu?-* $TMPDIR/assets/vmlinuz", where is that boot/ coming from?
<seb128> it fails on amd64 for desktop-next with
<seb128> "+ cp -ar boot/vmlinuz-3.19.0-20-generic boot/vmlinuz-3.19.0-20-generic.efi.signed /tmp/tmp.WKlc3yv5h0/assets/vmlinuz
<seb128> cp: target '/tmp/tmp.WKlc3yv5h0/assets/vmlinuz' is not a directory
<seb128> E: config/hooks/500-move-kernel-to-device-tar.binary failed (exit non-zero). You should check for errors."
<seb128> I guess there is a /boot/vmlinuz, should we mkdir mkdir -p $TMPDIR/assets/vmlinuz before the cp then?
<seb128> hum, that's a stupid suggestion :p
<seb128> I guess that's not mean to be a dir
<seb128> so the issue is likely that we have several matches for vmlinu?-*
<Laney> seb128: the others are going to fail no?
<seb128> likely due to the uefi variant
<Laney> oh wait, it'is i386 that works
<seb128> Laney, yes
<Laney> teehee
<seb128> Laney, i386 is the one I'm interested in ;-)
<seb128> that's the one that builds
<Laney> gtk> test regressions to fix first
<seb128> k
<Laney> that's what I was talking about with p itti
<Laney> great fun
<mvo> seb128: from the kernel we install in our livecd-rootfs
<mvo> seb128: do you guys install a kernel too?
<Laney> ok i386 going
<seb128> Laney, thanks :-)
<seb128> mvo, I guess we do :-) unsure why/how though, that image should be similar to ubuntu-core, just with extra seeded binaries
<seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-touch.wily/view/head:/desktop#L64 doesn't include linux-*
<mvo> seb128: I think we don't do it via the seeds, irrc its black magic
<mvo> seb128: hold on a sec
<seb128> mvo, yeah, I just don't understand that magic, I'm a muggle ;-)
<mvo> seb128: I think you need to set KERNEL_FLAVOURS some lines earlier, I can add that for you
<ogra_> yeah, it isnt handled by seeds
<ogra_> comes from a live-build var
<seb128> mvo, ogra_, how/why is that different between ubuntu-core and ubuntu-desktop-next?
<seb128> they have the same livecd-rootfs hooks basically
<ogra_> seb128, not sure, let me take a look
<seb128> ogra_, thanks
<ogra_> (i havent touched core before)
<ogra_> (at least on that level)
<mvo> seb128: I don't know, I don't know why it wasn't added it to desktop-next
<seb128> well, for sure they are different
<seb128> mvo, is it in ubuntu-core?
<mvo> seb128: but really, this code-duplication that we need is bothering me (quite a lot)
<mvo> seb128: one sec, let me point you at the code line
<seb128> mvo, yeah, me too, I tried to symlink those hooks yesterday but build failed then
<seb128> "cp: cannot stat 'config/hooks/03-boot_with_systemd.chroot': No such file or directory"
<mvo> seb128: well, its ok for now, but longer^Wshoter term this is becoming a nightmare
<seb128> right
<seb128> need to fix that
<mvo> seb128: not blaming you :)
<mvo> seb128: don't get me wrong, the tools just have not kept up with the task we now throw at them
<seb128> I've to admit I didn't sit down trying to understand the livecd-rootfs details
<seb128> I'm just poking around
<mvo> seb128: *cough* I doubt many people do
<ogra_> seb128, line 412 in live-build/auto/config adds the kernel
<ogra_> OPTS="${OPTS:+$OPTS }--linux-packages=linux-image"
<ogra_> seb128, i guess you want to add "ubuntu-desktop-next" to the case in line 368
<seb128> ogra_, ok, good spot, thanks
<seb128> mvo, thanks as well ;-)
<ogra_> :)
<mvo> ogra_: well, if we do that they will not install recommends anymore
<ogra_> oh, right
<mvo> ogra_: so we need another if ! ubuntu-core
<ogra_> then you want to duplicate the whole thing or some such
<mvo> ogra_: which is frankly all terrible and spahgeetty
<seb128> ogra_, mvo: in fact it seems didrocks did that
<seb128> ogra_, mvo, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/livecd-rootfs/trunk/view/head:/live-build/auto/config#L206
<seb128> l220
<seb128> 			OPTS="${OPTS:+$OPTS }--linux-packages=linux-image"
<mvo> seb128: I'm not sure thats enough, it may need KERNEL_FLAVOURS, but again I don't know the ins/outs
<seb128> mvo, so adding a "                        KERNEL_FLAVOURS=generic" line?
<ogra_> it definitely needs more additions now that you are snappy based
<mvo> ogra_: meh, sorry, I don't want to come across negative, the or thing is probably a good start, we could move the other ubuntu-desktop-next after ubuntu-core and override the apt recommends to true again
<seb128> ogra_, like?
<mvo> still not great but if its close together and we add a comment it would be ok I guess?
<ogra_> seb128, look at the ubuntu-core stuff ...
<ogra_> while you dont want the dropping of recommends it adds a ton of extra packages etc
<seb128> ogra_, well, it mostly install packages, that we don't need because our seed is complete/has recommends
<mvo> I really wish we had somthing declarative where you can say "project ubuntu-desktop-next(ubuntu-core):\n  apt_recommends = true\nextra_package += ["foo", "bar"]
<ogra_> seb128, add_package install ubuntu-snappy ... and the like
<ogra_> also enabling universe for system-image-cli
<ogra_> etc etc
<seb128> ogra_, but ubuntu-snappy is installed, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208626439/livecd.ubuntu-desktop-next.manifest
<ogra_> ah, k
<ogra_> well, all i mean is you should go over all the lines there and see that you end up with the same bits installed
<seb128> right, we added those to our desktop seed
<seb128> unsure why core is not doing that
<seb128> like
<seb128> "
<seb128>                         # some workarounds because the seeds are not quite
<seb128>                         # corrent at the moment
<seb128> 		        add_package install dbus"
<Laney> seems to just be the flavour thing
<seb128> I don't understand why that needs to be there as a hack
<ogra_> dropped recommends ?
<ogra_> though yeah, one could have seeded that :)
<seb128> couldn't dbus be seeded?
 * ogra_ has no idea why it wasnt 
<seb128> yeah :-)
<ogra_> perhaps because you dont want it in certain images
<ogra_> cloud ?
<ogra_> hmm, no, its in the generic part of the code
<Laney> is there an ubuntu-core seed?
<Laney> I think this SUBPROJECT thing is because there is ubuntu-core and ubuntu-core-system-image
<Laney> yes indeed, there is
<Laney> so maybe this can be cleaned up now?
<Laney> also the broken indentation in that block makes me twitch
<ogra_> well, ubuntu-core still builds the ubuntu-core tarballs on cdimage
<ogra_> which are used by many projects as cheap chroots
<Laney> yes
<ogra_> (and i agree about the indendation)
<seb128> Laney, it's a vcs and you have commit access, feel free to fix the indent ;-)
<Laney> I am doing
<seb128> cool
<Laney> done, please pull
<Laney> mvo: It looks like you've not got LP generating Task: for your seed - intentional?
<Laney> I think it'd be feasible to move those manual installations there and then we could merge the desktop-next and core bits
<Laney> at least that block
<Laney> Maybe there's a project I can file a bug on? :)
<mvo> Laney: hm, I have Task headers for some bits, no? what am I missing :) ?
<Laney> mvo: e.g. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-core.wily/view/head:/core-libs-dev don't have them
<mvo> Laney: oh,core-libs-dev will go away, sorry. task: ubuntu-core is the one we use
<Laney> Maybe so, but those packages don't have Task headers which indicates that ubuntu-core isn't being processed
<mvo> Laney: a while ago there was this idea to have core-libs/core-libs-dev so just like ubuntu-sdk-libs/ubuntu-sdk-libs-dev so that we can re-use the click chroots environment. but that never got enaywhere
<Laney> it needs to be in lp:ubuntu-archive-publishing scripts/cron.germinate
<mvo> Laney: there are a bunch of packages with a ubuntu-core header, no?
 * mvo is probably confused
<Laney> mvo: Seems to come from ubuntu.wily/system-image seed
<Laney> is that your thing?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so, ironically, I think I am getting punished for not using umake
<rickspencer3> I tried writing some Go code and go build kept complaining that certain members weren't in a certain class
<rickspencer3> I assume this is because I have an out of date Go from the archives and need to use ubuntu make to get the fresh stuff ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: not sure if I should \o/ in some way :p
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> didrocks, brace yourself, I may come back and ask for help with umake :)
 * didrocks is away for a long long time ;)
<davmor2> didrocks: not sure that's what rickspencer3 meant when he said brace yourself :p
<didrocks> davmor2: I will argue "ENOTNATIVESPEAKER"
<davmor2> hahaha
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: that one is always helpful
<davmor2> didrocks: you speak better English than I do French so that doesn't wash sorry ;)
<mvo> Laney: yes
<mvo> Laney: sorry for the delay, meeting
<Laney> no worries
<didrocks> davmor2: what do you mean? j/k ;)
<Laney> larsu: do you want to try to get https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/overlay-scrollbars in?
 * Laney hasn't tried it yet, mind
<seb128> Laney, that has issues, progressbar have no bg with it
 * seb128 tried it
<Laney> oh right, did you report that already?
<seb128> IRC report :p
<seb128> larsu confirmed/said he would have a look
<Laney> ok
<larsu> what seb128 said
<seb128> oh, other gtk316 issue
<seb128> in nautilus sidebar, the equivalent of ~1.3 rows of space is empty at the bottom
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/nautilus.png
<seb128> oh, also
<seb128> gnome-tetravex: /usr/@DATADIRNAME@
<seb128> wth!
 * seb128 looks at that
<larsu> looks like the undershoot rule doesn't apply there...
<seb128> larsu, speaking about which issue?
<seb128> weird, the gnome-tetravex debs in Debian don't have the issue and we are in sync
<seb128> different intltool or something?
<larsu> seb128: nautilus
<seb128> larsu, undershoot, is that having to do with the scrolling overshoot?
<seb128> or...?
<seb128> do you see the issue as well?
<larsu> seb128: yes, undershoot is when there's more content at an edge. I see the issue too (haven't until now because my nautilus is usually large enough)
<Laney> seb128: can you file a "gtk316" bug so it doesn't get lost?
 * Laney has trying the 3.16 update on the list
<larsu> gtk316 assignee:larsu :(
<Laney> maybe that fixes it :)
<Laney> jhbuild run nautilus doesn't work :(
<larsu> Laney: is the nautilus on your system still running?
<seb128> larsu, Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1463848
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1463848 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "[gtk 3.16] sidebar has unused space at the bottom" [Undecided,New]
<larsu> seb128: thanks
<Laney> thx
<seb128> yw!
<Laney> larsu: I quit it first, it's an assertion failure
<larsu> uh oh
 * Laney tries the 3-16 branch
<seb128> is calling nautilus -q or nautilus from a command line also giving you
<seb128> gtk_icon_theme_get_for_screen: assertion 'GDK_IS_SCREEN (screen)' failed
<seb128> GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid (NULL) pointer instance
<seb128> g_signal_connect_object: assertion 'G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed
<Laney> no
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> Laney, can you retry deskotp-next on amd64? want to see if the livecd-rootfs update made a difference there
<seb128> Laney, I see what you are trying to do :p
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> fail
<Laney> I guess I have to still do it >:(
<seb128> meanwhile can you start a build? I would like to see the result before going off for tennis in ~1.5 hours
<Laney> running
<seb128> thanks
<popey> willcooke: in your mail you suggested installing unity8 on desktop, what method would you recommend? (I'm on Wily on my Intel laptop)
<popey> willcooke: tbh I'd rather not install on my main machine simply because then it means flip / flopping between two sessions (unity7 and 8)
<popey> willcooke: would way rather have a machine dedicated to this so I can continue working / file bugs / build clicks etc on main machine while doing testing on second machine.
<willcooke> and we'd rather not rework everything we've done to get the U8 snappy image out ;)
<popey> well it was clearly prematurely expired, surely? given we have a requirement for click based desktop
<willcooke> who is we?
<willcooke> How about this:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC
<popey> that is broken here :(
<popey> i get a blank screen when i login to that unity8 session
<willcooke> is blank screen this:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8-lxc/+bug/1383497
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1383497 in unity8-lxc (Ubuntu) "TTY switching does not work when running Unity8 in the LXC" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> popey, we never had a click based desktop and I don't see how that would work, click is a good simplified format to distribute apps, it's not something you build a desktop from
<popey> I dont mean click distributed desktop
<popey> I mean, a desktop build which is similar in setup to the phone build
<popey> which is based off debian packages and click packages
<popey> which I truncated as "click based" sorry.
<seb128> desktop-next was not different from install unity-desktop-session-mir on your normal wily and logging into that from the login manager
<seb128> why can't you just do that?
<seb128> installing*
<willcooke> qengho, you around?
<seb128> mvo, same error with the kernel flavor set :-/
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208754412/buildlog_ubuntu_wily_amd64_ubuntu-desktop-next_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> cp: target '/tmp/tmp.nawPuZ1kD7/assets/vmlinuz' is not a directory
<seb128>  cp -ar boot/vmlinu?-* $TMPDIR/assets/vmlinuz
<seb128> wonder if the *uefi/signed variants don't make several matches to "boot/vmlinu?-*"
<seb128> should have added a ls debug line in there, I was pondering doing that for that upload
 * willcooke -> EOD 
<mvo> seb128: meh, :( is the script run with set -ex ? but I guess thats not helpful
<mvo> seb128: we really need a livecd-rootfs that can run locally
<mvo> (IMNSHO)
<ogra_> mvo, i was pondering to update rootstock-ng ... that runs it locally
<mvo> ogra_: I wonder if there is anything that blocks getting that support for upstream livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> mvo, it is a complex setup if you want to do the same as the buildd does (stacked chroots in onion model)
<mvo> ogra_: right, stillâ¦
<ogra_> mvo, well, there is the BuildLiveCD.sh script upstream
<mvo> ogra_: aha, part of live-build?
<ogra_> which is essentially the thing that gets executed on the buildd
<ogra_> no, part of livecd-rootfs
<ogra_> but that doesnt help you since you need to first get the setup in place that LP does when provisioning the buildd
<ogra_> (which is what rootstock-ng does)
<mvo> ogra_: yeah, I write some code for this a long time ago and then it didn't get anywhere and I lost interesst :/ but everytime I need to debug a failure I whish I hadn't
<ogra_> mvo, well, as i said, its probably just 10min of work to update rootstock-ng and make it build wily images (and to build core instead of the hardcoded touch)
<ogra_> i wrote it in a way (explicitly) to not be a generic tool
<ogra_> would just need some generalizing again
<rsalveti> "funny" how we keep having this same issue over and over and over
<ogra_> yeah
<Noskcaj> Laney, Would you mind syncing gjs from exp now you've uploaded it to there?
<Laney> I'm certainly going to do that, can't right now though
<Noskcaj> ok
<Laney> LP needs to know about it first
<robert_ancell> Laney, I was about to track down how to sort out the libpeas / Debian Python issue - thanks for doing that.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-11
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<larsu> bonjour #desktop!
<seb128> hey larsu & desktopers
<didrocks> re larsu, seb128
<pitti> bonjour seb128 et larsu
<pitti> comment allez-vous ?
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128> et toi ?
<larsu> hi didrocks, pitti, and seb128!
<pitti> seb128: moi aussi ! except for being a bit sore from basketball, but that's just a normal Thu morning :)
<pitti> larsu: how is your phone today? :)
<larsu> pitti: it's pretty good now. I've been able to solve all issues except that the read/write image
<larsu> pitti: already started converting units (and getting rid of the ones we don't need anymore)
 * larsu is reading a lot of man pages
<larsu> gotta stop for today though and translate some slides for a sales meeting :)
<pitti> larsu: oh, that sounds like good progress! You are converting the remaining ones in lxc-android-config?
<pitti> larsu: please let me know if you have questions or run into trouble
 * pitti hugs larsu
<larsu> pitti: yep. Will do thanks :)
 * larsu hugs pitti back
<willcooke> Morning all
<willcooke> what's libpeas?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<larsu> willcooke: morning. A library for handling plugins in apps
<larsu> (think gedit, totem, etc)
<willcooke> thx larsu
<willcooke> Do we think #1440504 is something we should target for this cycle
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpeas/+bug/1440504
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1440504 in libpeas (Ubuntu) "libpeas-1.0-0 depends on both libpython2.7 and libpython3.4" [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, Laney said he would look at it
<willcooke> seb128, well, he said "when and if" ;)
<willcooke> is that Laney speak for "I'll do it"?
<larsu> woah why is that? Different deps on introspection stuff?
<seb128> unsure...
<seb128> willcooke, I think it's a way to see "in due time" ... do you consider that a top priority?
<seb128> we should do it this cycle if we can
<seb128> but I don't think it needs to be done this week
<willcooke> That's cool, I don't mind - but I have heard talk of getting Python 2.x off the install CD / out of the image for a while, so if that's blocking then I would like to get it done
<seb128> yeah, that's not "blocking"
<seb128> it's part of a stack remaining and not the most difficult item
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=python3
<seb128> "port software-center to python3" is on this list
<willcooke> ah, lolz
<seb128> ubuntu-sso-client as well
<willcooke> got it
<seb128> sessioninstaller port to python3 too
<willcooke> thanks, I have some scope now :)
<seb128> so yeah, some of those need quite some upstream work and have no allocated ressources atm
<willcooke> cool, thanks for helping me understand
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> I've a big pitti on my g+ today
<pitti> seb128: oh, from the canonical pitti? I forgot to remove the auto-generated github link in my daily report yesterday.. :)
<seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/pitti.png
<seb128> :-)
<pitti> heh, yeah
<seb128> pitti, stop staring at me, I didn't do it!
<seb128> :p
<pitti> seb128: it's not my angry face!
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> pitti has an angry face? /me doesn't believe
<seb128> I was going to say
<pitti> yeah, it doesn't come out very often
<Laney> hullo
<pitti> try saying "TTIP", and you'll see it :)
<pitti> Laney: oh hai!
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hey pitti seb128
<Laney> what's up?
 * Laney is outside in the sun
<seb128> Laney, can you see the screen with this reflective glass?
<Laney> a bit
<Laney> I'm going to go inside in a minute
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> what's crackin'?
<larsu> got the sales thing today
<larsu> translating some remaining slides to German right now. "fun"
<larsu> you?
<Laney> oh yeah
<Laney> what is the general theme?
<larsu> ubuntu â designed for government
<larsu> it's about all kinds of public sector use
<Laney> ah, advertising the keylogging feature
<Laney> ^o)
<larsu> actually quite interesting :)
<Laney> willcooke: It means "someone needs to analyse the reverse dependencies first" by the way
<willcooke> thx Laney
<Laney> I was mainly intercepting robert_ancell doing this in Ubuntu
<willcooke> gotya
<Laney> he's welcome to do that first bit ;)
<Laney> pitti: did you see that LO is still ENOSPCing?
<pitti> Laney: yes, and I know exactly why
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> |o/
<pitti> Laney: (and glibc and chromium-browser)
<Laney> \o|
<Laney> |o|
<pitti> Laney: I'm just preparing the systemd upload which will fix this :)
<pitti> Laney: *\o-*
<seb128> systemd issue?
<Laney> gooooooooooo team!
<pitti> mounting /tmp/ as a tmpfs
<pitti> I didn't notice as I do that anyway
<pitti> we now have a solid fix for that (plus a new autopkgtest)
<Laney> ah, I thought ubuntu2 was for this but now I see the changelog
<pitti> I had an initial bandaid yesterday
<pitti> but mbiebl and I discussed how to make this less brittle
<Laney> http://www.nottinghampost.com/Giant-indoor-trampoline-park-coming-Nottingham/story-26674935-detail/story.html
<seb128> Laney, found a new sport? ;-)
<Laney> tempting!
<xnox> RFP of gtk-nocsd
<xnox> =)
<xnox> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=788076
<ubot5> Debian bug 788076 in wnpp "RFP: gtk3-nocsd -- LD_PRELOADable library to disable GTK+ 3 client side decoration" [Wishlist,Open]
<xnox> Laney: can one play ulitmate freezby on that ?! =)
<seb128> gtk-nocsd!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> they should add something in there to stop drawing the window controls
<larsu> omg
<Laney> SEED IT
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> let's do some string comparisons whenever we create any GType!
<larsu> surely that will make things faster :/
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> is that your first time seeing that?
<larsu> ya
<larsu> the README is gold: "Even worse, this may break some window manager or compositors.
<hyperair> fwiw, i think ld-linux does some string comparisons for looking up symbols as well
<hyperair> as does dynamic_cast<> in C++
<larsu> indeed, and this is just when registering the type
<larsu> so not all that bad
<hyperair> yeah
<hyperair> what README are you talking about anywya?
<larsu> https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
<seb128> somebody should just fork gtk ;-)
<hyperair> well, sounds like the typical disgruntled non-gnome gtk-using developer..
<hyperair> this sentiment seems to float around the lxde and xfce communities
<seb128> kde, unity as well
<seb128> most of !GNOME I guess
<larsu> people were always complaining about gnome and gtk
<larsu> this is not news
<larsu> even in the 2.x days ... and still, everyone continues to use it
<seb128> unsure
<seb128> devs didn't complain much about gtk2, out of maybe things being stalling/the toolkit not being modern enough
<larsu> exactly
<larsu> it was too slow, now it's too fast
<larsu> always something to complain
<seb128> the main issue with the GTK3 way and what alienates most users is the tendency to replace things with uncomplete/not ready solution
<seb128> like "that's the new way, it works for us but doesn't do everything you might need, don't worry we are going to fix it in the next cycles"
<larsu> yeah, it adopted the GNOME way of doing things :)
<seb128> meanwhile if you want/need those things, sucks to be you
<seb128> like you wm doesn't handle csd?
<seb128> or you need different decoration order/side that from th GNOME ones?
<seb128> sorry, can't do, wait a few cycles
<larsu> seb128: ya, taking out the GTK_FRAME_EXTENTS check was bollocks
<larsu> I'm not saying that this is the best way to handle a project
<larsu> but noone has done it better so far
<larsu> just a lot of complaining
<seb128> yeah :-/
<hyperair> seb128: lol, that whole "that's the new way" thing has been the way a lot of open source projects have been going
<hyperair> GNOME isn't the only one doing this
<hyperair> arguably, it might be the same bunch of people involved
<hyperair> but there was what, HAL, upower, udisks, and udisks2 before that that went the same way
<hyperair> and then there's the systemd pattern of course
<hyperair> all your projects are belong to systemd
<hyperair> s/^/systemd-/ on all project names!
<hyperair> okay nuff ranting from me
<pitti> sorry, I missed the start of that conversation over my "keyboard broke" fuss here -- what's the "new way"?
<larsu> pitti: feel free to ignore
<Laney> https://twitter.com/GermanQuatsch
 * Laney learns MÃ¤usespeck
<ogra_> yummy !
<ogra_> the pic is wrong though
<ogra_> http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-05/15/10/enhanced/webdr01/enhanced-buzz-11894-1431699200-9.jpg
<ogra_> thats the real MÃ¤usespeck :)
<ogra_> (quite different from mashmellow mice)
<Laney> they don't look like mÃ¤use any more!
<Laney> maybe after some heavy processing
<ogra_> its only their bacon ...
<ogra_> your breakfast bacon doesnt look like a pig either :)
<Laney> speak for yourself
 * Laney Henry VIII
<ogra_> lol
<davmor2> willcooke: 15.10 i386 had a very short play last night, trackpad is stupidly sensitive and most of the apps closed instantly other than that looks fun so far :0
<davmor2> :)
<Laney> most of the apps closed instantly?
<Laney> bug report please?
<ogra_> does desktop have a very short app lifecycle ?
<ogra_> :P
<davmor2> Laney: will do when I have 5 minutes, settings app was the only one that seemed to stay open
<pitti> Laney: chromium-browser now doesn't fail any more on ENOSPC, but fails on an entirely different reason
<pitti> grep: webserver-out: No such file or directory
 * Laney NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo
<Laney> wait, this isn't blocking gtk ;-)
<Laney> although I am about to sync glib, so I probably do still care
<pitti> I retried glibc and libo as well now
<Laney> qengho: maybe you could take a look at https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/wily-adt-chromium-browser/lastBuild/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console once you're around?
<pitti> Laney: right, this looks like an honest test regression with the new upstream versoin
<Laney> nod, or at least the test harness
<Laney> either way it needs looking at
<Laney> seb128: can you demote-to-proposed gnome-shell-extension-autohidetopbar gnome-shell-extension-redshift gnome-shell-extension-suspend-button gnome-shell-extension-weather gnome-shell-timer please?
<Laney> the tests are passing again now
 * Laney lunches
<Laney> demote-to-proposed is in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools, btw
 * Laney has blocked them in proposed-migration so they don't go straight back in
<seb128> Laney, what is "demote to proposed"?
<seb128> isn't that just deleting from wily and keeping only the proposed pocket version?
<seb128> thanks for pointing the tool ;-)
<Laney> no, there is no proposed version
<Laney> it copies it there and deletes the wily one
<Laney> so that it goes back in if e.g. it gets synced
<seb128> I see
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> enjoy lunch ;-)
 * Laney is deciding what to have
<Laney> thank *you*!
<qengho> Laney: Perhaps not that error?  "tar: Unexpected EOF in archive"   I'll look at others.
<pitti> qengho: oh, amd64 failed with that
<pitti> qengho: we mean the i386 one ("grep: webserver-out: No such file or directory
<seb128> same on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/wily-adt-libreoffice/67/ARCH=i386,label=adt/
<qengho> pitti: Yes, got it. Fixed. Will propose replacement soon.
<pitti> qengho: \o/ cheers!
<Laney> qengho: ah, there was another run and I linked to lastBuild - unhelpful of me
<Laney> build 42
<Laney> seb128: it went in \o/
<seb128> Laney, larsu, well done ;-)
<Laney> let the complaints commence
<gogis_> ok, so here I am :)
<gogis_> I know C/++, Python, Pascal, quite Java... I also understand Assembly and I can learn other languages quickly... can I somehow help with the development of ubuntu?
<gogis_> hey there :)
<Laney> hi gogis_
<Laney> you sure can if you want to
<gogis_> Hi Laney
<Laney> what area do you want to work on? desktop / server / phone?
<gogis_> I would personally prefer to work on desktop, but in the end, it doesn't matter, I would do whatever
<Laney> well I always think the best way to get motivated at the start is to work on something which you have a personal interest in
<Laney> that is either a bug which annoys you or an application you like
<gogis_> Laney: Yeah, I agree
<gogis_> Laney: Ok, but how do I get in touch with the developlment team, how do I know what exactly to do?
<Laney> you found us
<Laney> e.g. here is the bug list for rhythmbox https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox
<gogis_> well, nice... where do I get the source codes and what should I do, when I fix some bug?
<Laney> here's some documentation: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/traditional-packaging.html and then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue is how to get it reviewed
<Laney> it's a bit complex at the start
<gogis_> yeah, I see
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good page too
<gogis_> thank you, Laney :)
<gogis_> what do you do, for example?
<Laney> I work on the desktop mainly, fixing bugs and helping to maintain and integrate the software which makes it up
<Laney> also working with the projects that develop the software we use
<Laney> can I get seahorse's gpg-agent to forget my key after a timeout?
<Laney> it seems to be keeping it unlocked forever which is disturbing me
<ogra_> Laney, +1
<ogra_> just took me 45min to even find what i have to do after mv'ing ~/.ssh around
<ogra_> evo didnt want to talk to dbus anymore and stuff
<Laney> DDTTâ¢ :)
<ogra_> fun is ... if ssh <IP> doesnt work ... but ssh localhost "ssh <IP>" does :)
<seb128> Laney, mvo, ogra_, do you have any opinion on http://paste.ubuntu.com/11696900/ ?
<Laney> I have no idea, try slangasek?
<seb128> Laney, k
<Laney> sorry
<seb128> no worry
<ogra_> seb128, if you have multiple vmlinuz-* files it would only copy the last ona anyway, no ?
<ogra_> (i.e. when you have vlinuz-* and .signed and .efi.signed and whatever)
<mvo> seb128: no opinion, I wonder how we can convey better that any change in the file needs to be done in two places :/ maybe we could sh "source" the one from the other?
<mvo> seb128: if symlinks do not work
<Laney> why don't symlinks work?
<ogra_> does the x86 image use a vfat for the boot partition too ?
<seb128> ogra_, no, because it would be "cp vmlinuz vmlinuz.signed dir/vmlinuz"
<seb128> ogra_, or that work only if dir/vmlinuz is a dir
<seb128> which it's not
<ogra_> yeah
<seb128> mvo, yeah, unsure but that's another topic, I don't want to block getting an image to build on making livecd-rootfs design sucks less
<seb128> Laney, because they don't, I tried this week
<Laney> haha
<ogra_> what do you mean by "suck less" livecd-rootfs is a beauty
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208713546/buildlog_ubuntu_wily_i386_ubuntu-desktop-next_BUILDING.txt.gz
 * ogra_ hides somewhere 
<Laney> I believe you that they don't
<seb128> Laney, cp: cannot stat 'config/hooks/03-boot_with_systemd.chroot': No such file or directory
<mvo> seb128: ok
<Laney> I want to know why and whether that can be fixed instead :P
<seb128> Laney, ^
<seb128> Laney, patches are welcome :-)
<Laney> like cp -L or so
<Laney> ...
<seb128> I don't understand how livecd-rootfs works
<seb128> what is the relative dir and where it's copied
<seb128> so I don't understand why it's failing
<ogra_> it unpacks the linux package in the chroot you are currently in
<ogra_> so the kernel ends up in boot/
<seb128> ogra_, the symlink issue Laney is asking is something else
<seb128> I tried to symlink hooks
 * ogra_ doesnt see whats complicated about that 
<seb128> but that results in a "cp: cannot stat 'config/hooks/03-boot_with_systemd.chroot': No such file or directory"
<seb128> so somewhat the symlink doesn't resolve
<ogra_> yeah, that wont work
<seb128> slangasek is happy with the change
 * seb128 uploads
<seb128> "You have been added to ubuntu-desktop-next-release"
<seb128> I feel like Laney is on something
<Laney> MUHAHAHA
<seb128> :-)
 * willcooke -> EOD
<seb128> Laney, is that you hammering desktop-next i386 rebuilds?
<Laney> ye
<Laney> has this one hung?
<Laney> oh no, just moving  slowly
<Laney> I'll check on it later, got to go climbing now
<Laney> should post to the iso tracker if I got the config right this time
<Laney> & then in theory self service rebuilds should w ork
<Laney> (i386 only until I push the change)
<Laney> ok, see you!
<seb128> Laney, have fun
<Sweet5hark> sneaky changes in configure defaults that create hope: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/commit/88f94fa76ffbfc3abba885480d7d2d2e05107d0a
<seb128> Laney, pitti, can you one you sponsors http://paste.ubuntu.com/11697411/ to debian for me?
<seb128> can't commit to the svn either for some reason
<seb128> where I can ssh to svn.debian.org
<seb128> bah, going for some exercice
<seb128> bbl
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-12
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! gut, danke!
<pitti> c'est un beau matin, avec beaucoup du soleil !
<seb128> ici aussi !
<pitti> seb128: do you know what happened in http://paste.ubuntu.com/11697411/ ?
<pitti> seb128: did they use a broken intltool or something to wrap the tarball?
<seb128> pitti, no, I don't really
<seb128> the issue is due to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~intltool/intltool/trunk/revision/742
<seb128> pitti, I copied what Laney did in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/202626076/gnome-bluetooth_3.8.2.1-0ubuntu11_3.8.2.1-0ubuntu12.diff.gz
<seb128> but using intltoolize on the source should probably work as well
<seb128> they probably rolled the tarball with intltool 0.50 which still had that definition
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<pitti> seb128: ah, so you already committed the fix now
<seb128> pitti, yes, figured out my commit issue
<pitti> seb128: what's the effect if you don't apply this patch? 3.16.0-1 builds just fine
<seb128> pitti, if you build -1 with current intltool the translations are installed in a directory /usr/@DATADIRNAME@/locale
<seb128> current ubuntu package has that
<pitti> ./usr/share/locale/ast/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-tetravex.mo
<seb128> dpkg -l | grep intltool ?
<pitti> seb128: 0.50.2 in sid
<seb128> pitti, that's the old version
<pitti> seb128: ah, so this only applies to the experimental version?
<seb128> Ubuntu has 0.51
<seb128> yes
<seb128> the commit I pointed before is only in the newest version
<pitti> seb128: i. e. do you want/need that uploaded to sid? (trying to add a justification for the half-NMU)
<seb128> pitti, it's in pkg-gnome, I though you were in that?
<seb128> no, don't bother
<pitti> I am
<seb128> I just wanted to keep the package in sync
<pitti> just not in Uploaders:, but I guess I don't have to be
<seb128> yeah, you don't, that's autogenerated from the previous uploaders in pkg-gnome
<pitti> seb128: so if that were me, I'd do a -1svn1 upload to ubuntu now
<pitti> keeps it autosyncable, and avoids an unnecessary sid upload
<seb128> pitti, k, let me do that then, thanks ;-)
<willcooke> o/
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> good morning :)
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, you are european tz today? ;-)
<willcooke> The boy thought he should come and poke me in the face at 6am
<willcooke> and then climbed in my bed and went back to sleep
<willcooke> I was checking email on my phone anyway, figured I might as well get up
<didrocks> I guess it was his way to tell "dad, brings some money home"
<willcooke> hehe
<seb128> lol
<larsu> morning!
<didrocks> re larsu!
<willcooke> hey larsu
<larsu> hi guys :)
<larsu> how's things?
<willcooke> good!  How did you get on yesterday?
<willcooke> I thought it was today for some reason
<seb128> hey larsu
<larsu> willcooke: it was, but they changed it for $MANAGER_REASONS
<larsu> hi seb128
<willcooke> larsu, ohhh.  Was it fun?
<larsu> willcooke: was good. A bit dull, but they were very interested and asked tons of questions
<willcooke> great!
<willcooke> Well, thank you *very* much for doing it
<larsu> definitely fun to see that world
<larsu> not sure if I would do it again :)
<larsu> willcooke: sure!
<willcooke> larsu, @ do it again - acknowledged!
<larsu> willcooke: feel free to ask if it comes up again. Just not sure yet :)
<larsu> hm, the launcher is showing two irssi again
 * larsu blames Laney's gnome-terminal wrapper
<seb128> willcooke, btw, we got desktop-next-snappy to build on amd64 now and a channel up for it, having issue with u-d-f to generate the image now, but it's getting there
<seb128> u-d-f needs some changes to know about the new channel and partition scheme update (they are coded to 1G that isn't enough for the personal image)
<didrocks> seb128: hum, I don't remember if I pushed or still have the branch changing it
<seb128> didrocks, "it"?
<didrocks> seb128: it's quite easy to find in the source code
<didrocks> the limit
<didrocks> there are the uefi partition part and the traditional grub one
<seb128> didrocks, just tried http://paste.ubuntu.com/11700710/
<seb128> but u-d-f bails out on
<seb128>  "issue while mapping partitions: more partitions then expected while creating loop mapping"
<seb128> which might be something else
<didrocks> oh, interesting
<didrocks> didn't get that one
<seb128> waiting on sergiusens, he knows that tool better
<didrocks> you only changed the grub part, without uefi
<didrocks> though
<seb128> mvo, ^
<didrocks> (not sure which one you are using)
<didrocks> unsure about the other error though
<seb128> I'm testing on i386 atm, so likely grub
<seb128> mvo has the same issue on amd64 though
<didrocks> yeah, the 2 issues are unrelated for sure
<seb128> yeah, I wonder if the channel/partition scheme is different between core and personal
<seb128> and if u-d-f doesn't handle it
<didrocks> can beâ¦
<didrocks> I modified the limit to install core at the time
<didrocks> (and have more space)
<didrocks> mvo: you probably want to change diskimage/core_uboot.go for the future as well
<seb128> why did you need that for core?
<seb128> the 1G should be enough there
<mvo> didrocks: its just hacking around right now, this need some proper work
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, the change is unconditional with your patch
<seb128> mvo, recompressed the device tarball in .xz locally, it's down from 148 to 120, not 78, something is weird with the file we get from the channel
<didrocks> seb128: but both file (the one you got changed and the core_uboot) one are both for core as well
<didrocks> just one is for uefi, the other for grub
<seb128> right
<didrocks> the proper patch needs to have conditions
<seb128> or that needs to be a command line option
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> (but I guess better to mirror the config for now as there is already some duplication to not wonder later "why this one is 4 and this one 1?"
<seb128> yeah
<willcooke> seb128, udf? Ubuntu Disk ??
<willcooke> seb128, also.... woooo!  Thank you!
<seb128> willcooke, no, https://code.launchpad.net/goget-ubuntu-touch
<seb128> willcooke, the go tool used to write snappy images
<seb128> build/write
<willcooke> oooh, neat
<willcooke> oooh, random email PGP encrypted
<willcooke> from what looks like a dummy account
<willcooke> do I bother decrypting it?
<willcooke> Subject: Xmir
<seb128> it's robert_ancell playing tricks on you?! ;-)
<willcooke> hahaha!
<willcooke> oh, it's from a guy who wants to know how to run Xmir
<willcooke> totally legit
<willcooke> and disappointing :)
<seb128> lol
<Laney> hello
<larsu> morning Laney!
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<willcooke> ello laney
<willcooke> Laney, Thunderstorms today \o/
<Laney> larsu: I hate owning that wrapper, I don't even use it, can someone else please just take it over from me?
<Laney> willcooke: really?
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday
<Laney> better bring that washing in!
<willcooke> :D
<larsu> Laney: didrocks uses it.... *cough*
<Laney> I just get pinged when it breaks
<larsu> I guess everyone using gnome-terminal on ubuntu uses it :D
<Laney> but I don't even make use of its facilities
<Laney> so I will never see that myself
<larsu> ah, fair enuogh
<willcooke> didrocks, found out what was wrong with my webcam, I had a TV tuner plugged in and it was trying to use that instead
<didrocks> willcooke: interesting, do you have any tool to switch your input video source?
<willcooke> didrocks, I was fiddling to get SDR working, so I had some crazy kernel modules loaded
<didrocks> willcooke: that's the risk when you play with too many toys :)
 * Laney stabs dbus-test-runner
 * Laney screamcries
<Laney> tedg: please to help with the testsuite?
<Laney> pitti: I guess you're on the udisks2 failure?
<pitti> Laney: looking
<Laney> ah, didn't mean to distract you, figured you would be there already
<Laney> it's not glib's only blocker atm :)
<Laney> dbus-test-runner/ppc worked after 3-4 retries though ...
<Laney> but making things work that way makes me feel unclean
<pitti> Laney: can reproduce locally, I'll investigate this today
<Laney> sure, no rush, thanks
<Laney> "general: rework menus of nautilus"
<Laney> this might be a hard update ...
 * Laney may pick something else for now :)
<ochosi> hey Laney
<ochosi> just had a discussion within the xubuntu team about which milestones to join, and i was wondering what "I put myself down for nusakan (cdimage) pres butaning for A2 and B1." actually means
<Laney> You need someone in Canonical to run the scripts which publish the images
<Laney> nusakan is the machine which we do that on
<ochosi> ok, i guess there were just several words there i have never heard before :)
<ochosi> butaning?
<ochosi> (i know what bhutan is and what butane is)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> just read it as running the scripts
<Laney> press button :)
<ochosi> oh, so "butaning" ~ "buttoning"?
<ochosi> ah hehe, nice
<Laney> It's some meme that I don't even know the origin of
 * Laney fails at internet
<ochosi> there are days when i feel too old for memes
<ochosi> (luckily there are also other days!)
<Laney> anyway
<Laney> hopefully we get volunteers
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> well we've done one last cycle, but we just lost the person knowing the most about it (elfy)
<Laney> you lost elfy?
<ochosi> well yes
<Laney> bleh, shame
<ochosi> i don't know any details (and i'm not sure i want to), but it was connected to the community council / kubuntu turmoil somehow
<ochosi> so yeah, no fun
<Laney> ya
<ochosi> i might have to take on more QA duties within xubuntu now, so i'm not a huge fan of stepping up for the b1 release if i don't have to (sorry :/ )
<Laney> it's not essential to have the milestone if flavours don't want it
<ochosi> yeah i know, we discussed it a bit
<ochosi> let's see who else replies after me
<seb128> Laney, oh, btw, in case you didn't notice we have an amd64 build from desktop-next now ;-)
<Laney> nice!
<Laney> does the channel work?
<seb128> no
<seb128> well "work"
<seb128> it's configured/available
<seb128> but the image build fails
<seb128> could be client side u-d-f issue though
<seb128> c.f what I just wrote on #snappy
<Laney> fair enough
<Laney> getting there
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> we have most of the pieces in place now
<Laney> how will you flash onto a laptop?
<seb128> you write an image with u-d-f and dd that to an usb stick
<seb128> then you boot that and you dd to a disk I guess
<seb128> the "installing" part is in the snappy team backlog
<seb128> having an image you can kvm boot or dd on an usb stick is already going to be a first step for testing
<Laney> what is ubuntu-device-flash doing there?
<seb128> it's fetching tarballs from the server and combining them into a bootable image
<seb128> dealing with creating partitions and such
<seb128> and unpacking things where they should be
<seb128> doing the a-b scheme etc
<Laney> can't we just make that thing straight away with the image build?
<seb128> mvo, ^ ?
<seb128> I'm unsure why we need the client side tools indeed
<Laney> s/just// ;-)
<seb128> seems like it would be easier to download an img you can dd
 * Laney dislikes that
<Laney> we used to call it the "categorical just" in computer science
<seb128> I guess they have their reasons
<Laney> "isn't that just a <really complicated mathematical thing>?"
<seb128> "it's only code" :p
<seb128> Laney, one thing the u-d-f client side is useful for is that it let you tweaks bits of the image
<seb128> like the size of the rw partition
<seb128> or enabling dev mode or ssh
<seb128> well, I guess it makes sense in the snappy vision
<seb128> there is an ubuntu-core base
<seb128> then modular snaps for different hardware platforms and such
<seb128> so you can combine locally the bits you need
<seb128> rather than having to host imaged for every combinaison
<seb128> images
<dgadomski> hello
<dgadomski> seb128: do you remember the gvfs + samba + ACL issue we discussed some time ago? bug #1464645
<ubot5> bug 1464645 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Samba shares over gvfs do not respect ACL rules" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464645
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<seb128> not really no
<seb128> reading
<seb128> is that the thing you emailed the list about?
<seb128> e.g being able to specify mount options?
<dgadomski> seb128: yes, that's the same thing
<seb128> k, I do remember yes
<seb128> we didn't have a bug about that?
<mvo> seb128, Laney: doing that on cdimage would be ideal, we need to make it bootable there which is a bit tricky, kpartx is used for that right now and that requires root
<dgadomski> seb128: I am not aware about any such bug
<seb128> dgadomski, so all the previous discussions were not based on a reported bug?
<dgadomski> seb128: not a lp bug at least ;) I just wanted to know if that is even possible to implement before filing a bug
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> dgadomski, if none of our users reported the issue so it must not be important ;-)
<dgadomski> seb128: yeah, probably it's just affecting specific environments
<dgadomski> seb128: do you think it is possible to implement it by providing extra mount options by an env variable or a gsetting?
<seb128> dgadomski, unsure what would be the right level to specify the mount options
<seb128> maybe pitti has a better idea about that, he knows that stack better
<dgadomski> I've been reading the gvfs code and it's architecture is pretty specific, I'm not entirely sure what is possible with that implementation
<seb128> is gvfs event the right layer for that?
<seb128> or would udisks be better?
<dgadomski> if I understand it correctly there is a single mounted fuse filesystem reflecting all kinds of other filesystems with specific backends
<seb128> the fuse mounts are for clients that don't use gio/gvfs right?
<seb128> otherwise the specific backends don't go through that
<seb128> e.g samba uses libsamba
<seb128> not the fuse mount
<dgadomski> is it? I was getting an impression that there is only one fuse mounted at /run/user/<uid>/gvfs and it just maps all the shares inside that single fuse
<dgadomski> i.e. when I mount a samba share it is not displayed as a separate mount, it's just displayed as a dir below /run/user/<uid>/gvfs
<seb128> no, I think that's just an addition to allow non-gnome apps to access the mounts
<seb128> right
<seb128> the gvfs backend don't have fs access points
<seb128> if you talk to a smb://... uri it talk to gvfs which talks to the server using libsamba
<dgadomski> oh, I see
<seb128> the fuse mounts are an extra feature so legacy apps/non gnome ones can access the mount
<dgadomski> so I have confused that mechanism for the standard one
<dgadomski> so you suspect this has to be done on a non-gvfs level?
<seb128> dgadomski, no, in fact I'm unsure what your issue is
<seb128> the bug you report is one with the gvfs fuse compat mount
<seb128> but that mount is not used if you e.g edit a smb file with gedit
<seb128> so if you have a more specific user facing issue, fixing the fuse mount is not going to resolve it
<seb128> you should better open a bug explaining the user issue
<seb128> e.g "mount a server; edit a file in gedit; save; notice the file permissions are wrong"
<seb128> or whatever issue you are actually concerned about there
<dgadomski> seb128: you are right, I misunderstood the problem while I was reporting the bug, I'll fix that
<seb128> thanks
<dgadomski> thank you seb128
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> bah, GTK
 * seb128 kicks the fileselector not letting you type the letter of a file or folder anymore
<seb128> oh, typical gtk :-(
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748672
<ubot5> Gnome bug 748672 in Widget: GtkFileChooser "type-to-find doesnt work anymore" [Normal,New]
<seb128> "It's not a bug; the removal of the type-ahead search was very much intentional:"
<seb128> though mclasen hits he sort of want to fix just, they just did the typical "let's do what we want throwing things on the way and fix later"
<Laney> ya this is bad
<mvo> *urgh*
<Laney> larsu had a mini argument with them about it
<Laney> maybe it's easy to put back on, can you file a gtk316 bug?
<mvo> this makes me want to have a different toolkit
<seb128> Laney, right, going to do that in a bit
<seb128> it's a one liner revert
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=8f9c8120b9d8a4cfa9ed1777da37f7a2d618a3a6
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=71bd1c7e2c5252b5103bf029e437787e0a002951 as well
<Laney> I am wary of saying that :)
<Laney> it might have been in january but who knows what happened since
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1464654
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1464654 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "can't typeahead in the fileselector anymore with gtk 3.16" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> thx
<seb128> yw!
 * Laney tries LP git for gstreamer packaging
<seb128> nice!
<seb128> could be a topic to discuss at Debconf ;-)
<Laney> I should just be able to push an 'ubuntu' branch to LP
<Sweet5hark1> libreoffice-5.0.0~beta3 building since 2 hours. and -- oh, wonders -- amd64 seems to be fixed.
<willcooke> \o/
<ogra_> where is the snap ?
<Laney> no trolling, it's not fri... oh wait
<ogra_> lol
 * didrocks snappifies ogra_
 * ogra_ feels snappy now 
<didrocks> I don't trust this guy, put him in a sandbox! :)
 * didrocks hugs ogra_
 * ogra_ hugs didrocks 
<mdeslaur> has anyone else noticed that software-center in vivid doesn't show application icons anymore?
<ogra_> mdeslaur, i have them here
<ogra_> most are the generic box though ...
<mdeslaur> ogra_: this is what I'm seeing in vivid: http://snag.gy/ahDyp.jpg
<mdeslaur> yeah, all the generic icons instead of the application ones
<ogra_> right, but there are still apps that have a proper icon
<ogra_> (gparted, inkscape etc)
<mdeslaur> a few work, but on utopic, I get all of them
<ogra_> weird
<mdeslaur> this is utopic: http://snag.gy/s7hND.jpg
<mdeslaur> mvo: where does software-center get it's icons from?
<seb128> mdeslaur, guess what?
<seb128> it's a new-gtk issue...
<seb128> I bet it has to do with the change to enforce the icon size
<mdeslaur> seb128: why, of course is it :)
<seb128> first thing I tried, use gtk 3.12 and ... bingo, it works
<mvo> seb128: meh, on vivid?
<seb128> mvo, yes
<mvo> :(
<mdeslaur> awesomesauce
<seb128> mvo, you might need to force the icon size you request
 * didrocks whistles "backward compatibility"
 * seb128 whistles "gtk"
<mvo> seb128: we have a mail-thread about the maintenance just now, don't we :)
<seb128> mvo, yeah ;-)
 * mdeslaur gets popcorn
<mvo> lol
<mdeslaur> seb128: just rename it snappy-software-center
<mvo> seb128: I can not even release, I don't know where the debian dir is, I'm happy to fixup stuff, but then it needs to become something that I can actually bzr-buildpackage
<seb128> oh, more fun
 * mvo stops complaining and writes code
<mvo> mdeslaur: hahaha
<seb128> reviews are broken
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1462211
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1462211 in software-center (Ubuntu) "submit_review_gtk3.py throws an exception" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> works with old gtk as well
<seb128> invalid property n_rows on a GtkGrid
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> bug #1445745
<ubot5> bug 1445745 in software-center (Ubuntu) "Not able to write a review (Unable to show 'none')" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1445745
<seb128> " It appears that the Glade utility uses an "n_rows" property field on GtkGrids that is no longer good"
<didrocks> it's a way at least to not have bad reviews on software-center because there very few icons showing up ;)
<seb128> lol
<mdeslaur> hehehe
<desrt> hello from ottawa
<seb128> hey desrt ;-)
<seb128> how is ottawa?
<pitti> hey desrt!
<desrt> it's a beautiful city :)
<pitti> desrt: oh, following the women's soccer championship?
<desrt> and it's filled with people who have a lot of the same concerns as we often do...
<desrt> pitti: BSDCan
 * pitti was watching on Sun and yesterday
<didrocks> desrt: /!\ soccer discussion detected
<desrt> didrocks: no kidding :)
<desrt> too many europeans here :)
<didrocks> :)
<desrt> it's like a critical mass thing
<desrt> pitti: i didn't realise it was here until yesterday when we randomly happened upon the stadium :)
<pitti> didrocks: okay, okay, I STFU :)
<seb128> mvo, if you fix issues dobey can probably help you to roll a package update then
<pitti> enjoying "ze games"?
<seb128> didrocks, you should enjoy woman soccer, Lyon has the best team in France ;-)
<seb128> be proud of your city ! :p
<pitti> and it's muuuuch less commercialized than men's soccer
<desrt> professional sports are lame
<seb128> here come the curling man ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: really? I even didn't know it
<desrt> man.. curling sure is swell
<desrt> but even it's starting to get 'more professional' unfortunately :(
<desrt> but i mean... seriously
<desrt> look at what it turns into
<desrt> the contest is who has the best drug chemists to better hide drugs
<desrt> and who can give the biggest bribes to fifa or ioc without getting caught
<didrocks> oh, it's time for Tour de France again ;)
<didrocks> (saw chemist, hiding drugsâ¦)
<dobey> huh?
<desrt> didrocks: ya.. another fine example
<seb128> hey dobey
<dobey> oh, hmm
<seb128> dobey, mvo might need help to get s-c package updated ;-)
<seb128> unsure if you changed things when you were working on it
<dobey> i made it non-native. but i'm sure mvo has sufficient upload permissions and can easily just throw a patch in debian/patches to quickly SRU something if needed
<desrt> keynote talk right now is being given by the guy who invented environment variables
<pitti> desrt: ah, long env var vs. dconf discussion after that? :-)
<desrt> i don't know if dconf would run on a PDP.  i'm rather certain it didn't exist in the 60s :)
<desrt> just told an amusing story of how "void" got invented
<desrt> ritchie was originally against it until he realise that he could save a single instruction :)
<pitti> desrt: ah, otherwise everything would have had to return int?
<desrt> ya
<pitti> saves a pop off the stack, I figure :)
<desrt> i guess they probably used a register
<pitti> so, saves a LOAD reg, 0?
<desrt> ya.. basically
<seb128> dobey, what vcs do you use? lp:software-center has no debian dir
<dobey> seb128: indeed it doesn't. as i said, i changed it to be a non-native package. and UDD package import for it has been broken for a long time, so lp:ubuntu/software-center also is not up to date, so you need to use pull-lp-source for it
<seb128> dobey, mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-center/gtkgrid-deprecated-nrow/+merge/261855
<seb128> dobey, well, non-native could have been full source including debian/ dir in the vcs
<seb128> dobey, mvo, do you know what part of the code loads the icons on the main view?
<dobey> seb128: if debian/ is in the upstream source tree, that is a native package. using non-native version numbers in the changelog and then including a bzr bd config file to tell it to create a non-native package using the tree, is evil
<dobey> seb128: i do not. i'm not sure which parts of the main view are html versus gtk+ either.
<seb128> dobey, hum, k
<dobey> seb128, mvo: i guess i could do the minimal work needed to convert software-center back to a native package and move it over to landing via ci train, if that would make things easier going forward.
<seb128> dobey, that would be nice
<dobey> seb128: i'll see if i can find a little time to do that, after i finish what i'm currently working on
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<pmcgowan> seb128,  I am not getting xchat notifications since going to vivid I think  is there a way to check if the plugin is working/loaded
<seb128> pmcgowan, go to the preferences, plugins and see if it's loaded
<pmcgowan> seb128, sorry where?
<seb128> pmcgowan, using xchat or xchat-gnome?
<pmcgowan> seb128, xchat, and I see it in the messaging drop down
<pmcgowan> but nothing is showing up
<seb128> pmcgowan, yeah, that's orthogonal
<pmcgowan> nice word
<seb128> it means it's a known app, not that the client is enable/sending messages
<seb128> I'm using xchat-gnome
<seb128> unsure where the plugins options are under xchat
<seb128> look in the menus/preferences?
<pmcgowan> looking
<pmcgowan> says its loaded
<seb128> what plugin?
<pmcgowan> indicator.so from xchat-indicator
<pmcgowan> messaging indicator
<pmcgowan> wonder if I just reinstall it
<seb128> pmcgowan, better?
<pmcgowan> yeah its working after restarting the app
<pmcgowan> weird
<seb128> weird it is
<davmor2> pmcgowan: it's vivid nothing surprises me
<seb128> larsu, Laney, desrt, you good people, is one of you having this year #gtk+ logs maybe?
<seb128> Laney, you win, I wish unity was in git now :p
<Laney> seb128: yeah what are you after?
<Laney> ha, how come?
<seb128> Laney, there was a discussion about gtk_icon_theme_has_icon () that doesn't work anymore/the same way after gtk update
<seb128> that bite andyrock/unity like previous cycle
<seb128> I don't remember the details
<seb128> but I think software-center not loading icons is the same
<seb128> Laney, with git I could grep through historical changes in unity that mention gtk_icon_theme_has_icon in their diff I think ;-)
 * seb128 read about that,never tried
<seb128> well, maybe bzr can do the same but I don't know how
<Laney> #gtk+.log-20140722.gz:21/07 13:26:03 <ricotz> mclasen, hi, do you know if it is intended that gtk_icon_theme_has_icon() returns false for icons located in e.g. /usr/share/pixmaps while gtk_icon_theme_load_icon() properly loads it?
<Laney> ?
<seb128> Laney, that's it!
<seb128> that's bitting s-c as well
<seb128> what was the outcome?
<Laney> no solution
<seb128> bah
<Laney> mclasen hinted it was not intentional
 * seb128 shakes fist at gtk
<seb128> let me try to see what unity did
<seb128> Laney, thanks! you just had a beer_owned++, can collect at Debconf ;-)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you found it?
<seb128> Laney, not yet, but at least it confirms it's what I though
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/bamf/lp-1407192/+merge/246749
<seb128> using gtk_icon_theme_lookup_icon() instead
<Laney> ++
<seb128> mdeslaur, did you open a bug about the s-c icon thing? if not I would welcome one that I can use for a SRU
 * seb128 fixed 2 s-c/gtk bugs now today, I might go for a third one ;-)
<Laney> smells like a new maintainer
<seb128> ^_^
 * seb128 uncommits and delete mps
<seb128> me, touching s-c? never...
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> fix the black bar plz
<Laney> the "Show technical items" one
<seb128> shrug, it's happening, people taking me for the maintainer!
<seb128> is that a theme issue?
<Laney> HAHA nice try!
 * Laney shields lars_u
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-base1.0/+git/gst-plugins-base1.0
<Laney> breaking new ground
<seb128> nice!
<seb128> working fine so far?
<Laney> basics do
<Laney> I wanted to have it under code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-base1.0 but that's not there yet
<Laney> and I don't know what the workflow should look like either
<Laney> like should I push the branches which are shared with Debian or not?
<seb128> good question, is that needed to merge from them?
<seb128> I guess not
<seb128> we can just pull from debian location
<seb128> but consistency/having things stored together is nice
<Laney> then it's more complex to checkout
<Laney> and weird if we want to go ahead
<Laney> (going to catch a train, bbiab from it assuming there is signal)
<seb128> Laney, have fun
<mdeslaur> seb128: I haven't. Still want one?
<seb128> mdeslaur, yes, please
<mdeslaur> ok, one sec
<seb128> thanks
<mdeslaur> seb128: bug 1464722
<ubot5> bug 1464722 in software-center (Ubuntu) "No longer displays most application icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464722
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, mvo, dobey: https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-center/gtk-has-icon/+merge/261867
<seb128> mdeslaur, you should be able to edit the installed version if you want to test that
<mdeslaur> seb128: yep, that worked
<seb128> mdeslaur, great
<seb128> I'm going to upload to wily now and SRU next week
<mdeslaur> cool, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, in fact SRUed while I was at it
<seb128> on that note I'm going for a walk, back in  ~1h to deal with backlog and calling it a week
<seb128> have a good w.e for those going now
<mdeslaur> cool
<mdeslaur> bye!
<Laney> yo homies
<willcooke> happy weekend all
 * willcooke -> EOD
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-13
<mitya57> attente, hi, are you online?
<attente> mitya57: hi, how's it going?
<mitya57> attente, I have run "im-config -n fcitx", logged out/in, but when I try to start fcitx-qimpanel, it says "Fcitx not running"
<mitya57> And when I try to start Fcitx it says that it can't find the configuration files
<mitya57> ...And when I try to run fcitx-config-gtk3 it says "The name org.fcitx.Fcitx-0 was not provided by any .service file" and then segfaults :(
<attente> mitya57: do you have the exact error for it not finding the configuration files?
<mitya57> Hm, I have just installed fcitx-data, and now the message is different
<mitya57> (ERROR-15848 /build/buildd/fcitx-4.2.8.5/src/lib/fcitx/ime.c:535) No available Input Method
<mitya57> (ERROR-15848 /build/buildd/fcitx-4.2.8.5/src/lib/fcitx/instance.c:437) Exiting.
<mitya57> Perhaps I need to install some other package
<attente> mitya57: you can try installing fcitx-pinyin
<attente> it's probably getting that error since it needs at least one available engine installed
<mitya57> It worked \o/
<mitya57> And fcitx-qimpanel starts
<attente> nice :)
<mitya57> Now the Skins menu is working, but the Virtual Keyboard isn't
<attente> are you running it from the commit i mentioned?
<attente> 05fd858ef84da971a98d4f68b25f4bd897676b43
<mitya57> No, I used master and dropped the ifdefs
<mitya57> I tried to select a different skin and now there is no (root) menu at all :(
<attente> mitya57: it probably crashed and reverted back to the fcitx default indicator
<mitya57> Ok, after "rm -rf ~/.config/fcitx-qimpanel/" it's working again
<mitya57> Now let me look what happens with the Virtual Keyboard menu
<mitya57> Hm, because of daemonization I can't really use gdb :/
<mitya57> OK, I managed to make it work
<mitya57> attente: http://wstaw.org/m/2015/06/13/qimpanel_png_750x750_q85.jpg
<mitya57> The two other menus are working as well
<attente> mitya57: is the QT_5 configure option enabled?
<attente> because i think it's QT_4 by default
<attente> also for gdb, you can 'set follow-fork-mode child'
<mitya57> Yes, I used "cmake -DQT_5=ON -DQT_4=OFF  ../"
<mitya57> I can send you the patch I used
<mitya57> (Or submit it upstream as a pull request)
<mitya57> attente, anyway: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11707665/
<attente> mitya57: that is definitely working for me, thanks!
<mitya57> You are welcome :)
<attente> mitya57: feel free to propose upstream :)
<mitya57> OK, will do now
<attente> mitya57: thanks! :D
<mitya57> Sorry that it took too long :)
<happyaron> attente: my indicator-keyboard does not grab keys for ibus anymore
<happyaron> is that a bug or something wrong at my side?
<attente> happyaron: hey, you mean the input source switching shortcut in gnome-control-center? or ibus itself, because we patched out that behaviour for ibus iirc
<happyaron> attente: well, I mean I cannot type Chinese with ibus+indicator-keyboard
<happyaron> but it works in a gnome-shell session
<attente> happyaron: seems to be working over here, is it possible u-s-d crashed or something like that?
<happyaron> u-s-d is running
<happyaron> no hint for it's crashing
<attente> happyaron: no idea... all the variables are set properly by im-config too right?
<happyaron> no problem with that
<happyaron> fcitx not running but installed, manully set to use ibus and re-login
<happyaron> well I'll try with a fresh installation later
<attente> yeah.. i've no idea. is there any activity on ibus' bus when you type?
<happyaron> no
<happyaron> ibus didn't recieve anything...
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-06-14
<happyaron> attente: fresh installation works, wonders why...
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-13
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktoper
<seb128> hoi pitti! had a good w.e?
<pitti> seb128: bonjour ! oui, samedi Ã©tait calm, et le voyage Ã  Athens aussi
<seb128> oh, tu es en GrÃ¨ce ?
<pitti> seb128: ogra et moi avons regardÃ© le match hier soir :)
<pitti> seb128: oui, kernel/foundations/security sprint
<pitti> there are worse places indeed
<pitti> there's just almost no internet
<ogra_> well, it slowly drips through the wire(less) ... just a matter of patience
<ogra_> :)
<seb128> pitti, well done on winning your first match yesterday ;-)
<ogra_> well ... it wasnt pretty though
<ogra_> (but yeah, the result counts in the end)
<sil2100> I heard we also won our first match
<Sweet5hark> moin
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark, how are you? had a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> Nice weekend, saw a good soccer game yesterday ;)
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> good game Sweet5hark
<Laney> moin
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Trevinho> morning people
<Sweet5hark> well, the best thing about the game was that there had been some rightwing nutjob ranting about players with immigration background along the lines of "nobody wants boateng as a neighbor". The whole net exploded with "Neuer (our goalie) is very happy to have boateng as neighbor" memes when boateng did his magic defending the goal ...
<willcooke> hey Trevinho
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> hi willcooke
<Laney> what up
<Trevinho> back to EU, at least... In London, so maybe still UE for just two weeks more :'-(
<seb128> good morning u.k
<seb128> oh, Trevinho already up?
 * Trevinho feels uk too
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, Bringing on Schweinsteiger at 90mins only have him score 1 min later was great fun
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, for a while too :)
<Trevinho> seb128: although I'm already back on the correct timezone
<seb128> good, aligned on the european, keep it this way!
<Trevinho> not sure how long it will last
<seb128> europeans
<Trevinho> :D
<seb128> how was the hackweek?
<seb128> did everybody had a good w.e?
<seb128> we had a nice sunny saturday
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: oh, yeah. his first goal in a national game since 2011. Go in, make a goal with the first ball contact, game over.
<Trevinho> nice, on friday we also di the "run unity8 in your desktop now" session, and we got some nice stuff working including telegram app, file manager and other stores apps... plus libertine stuff
<seb128> which is good because this weeks is going to be rainy
 * Trevinho doesn't see sun since two weeks
<seb128> :-/
<Trevinho> or well, real sun.
<willcooke> Trevinho, saw that - excellent!  I have a plan though.....
<seb128> Trevinho, well, telegram&co ... the touch or desktop versions?
<willcooke> Trevinho, lets get xmir working in mir on x, and then fire up u7 :)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, touch versions
<seb128> why wouldn't those work?
<seb128> on unity8
<Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, that was my plan too :-D
<seb128> they are built for it
<Trevinho> inception
<willcooke> Trevinho, \o/
<cimi> Trevinho is at Cimis now :P
<seb128> it's the new London office? ;-)
<Trevinho> soon andyrock will join too
<Trevinho> so... Mini sprint at cimis :-D
<cimi> I can kick him out of the wifi if he doesn't behave D
<Trevinho> seb128: wanna join?
<cimi> :D
<seb128> Trevinho, that would be nice :p
<cimi> I have faster internet than the office and much better coffee B)
<cimi> you guys are welcome
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, they do work... but.... Desktop and phone experience might be different, so.... Not everything always went ok in stock mode
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> seb128: and there are various crashes, or things bringing down the entire shell... So, things to do.
<seb128> I can imagine
<cimi> I have a telegram click for amd64 if anyone wants
<Trevinho> but overall, things are growing... So...
<seb128> upload it to the store!
<cimi> yeah sprint was positive
<Trevinho> cimi: do that
<cimi> really good
<cimi> productive
<cimi> nice vibe
<Trevinho> and best food in a sprint ever
<cimi> prague 2010 excluded
<cimi> that sprint had excellent food
<Trevinho> you were young.. a freshment sprint for you... you'd misunderstand for sure :)
<cimi> it set the bar way too hight :)
<cimi> *high
<cimi> and then the following year we had Dublin :')
<cimi> seb128, you might remember dublin
<Trevinho> ah, seb128... back in topic... I just remembered we didn't land https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/gtk/lp-1574693-shadows/+merge/293082 yet.
<cimi> after a couple of days I thought they were just freezing and then defrosting the food we didn't eat, so one day left a mark on a slice of cake and found the very same slice the day after :)))
<Trevinho> seb128: as for the USD thing I was waiting some gsd reviews, but upstream isn't much in the mood of approving the whole thing, so I'd just land our side for now
 * Trevinho has to improve a patch, though
<seb128> Trevinho, k for landing usd, we can always improve things later after review, and that would unblock some SRUs
<seb128> cimi, I remember Dublin, not sure about the food being the best though
<seb128> oh, you said the good food was Prague, indeed :p
<cimi> seb128, it was the worst
<alexarnaud> Hello world !
<willcooke> morning alexarnaud
<alexarnaud> willcooke: how are you ? Could you reply to my mail please :) ?
<willcooke> alexarnaud, did you resend it?  Cos I still dont have it
<alexarnaud> willcooke: really? Yes, I can.
<willcooke> alexarnaud, send it to my other address, I'll msg it to you
<willcooke> alexarnaud, got it!
<alexarnaud> willcooke: thanks you. I've re-send it.
<willcooke> alexarnaud, got it to my Canonical account as well this time
<alexarnaud> willcooke: nice
<willcooke> Laney, when you get a mo, please could you take a look at this review?  https://code.launchpad.net/~willcooke/ubuntu-themes/progress-bars/+merge/297169
<willcooke> I think I got all the niggles out now
<willcooke> would be nice to have that in 16.04.1
<Laney> it's on my list already
<Laney> but thanks for the poke
<willcooke> oh nice one, thanks Laney
<willcooke> I was thinking about making a PPA for some wider early testing
<willcooke> when it comes to version numbers for the PPA - should I use something like "14.04+16.04.20160415-0ubuntu50"
<willcooke> (I've never made a PPA before)
<willcooke> oh, reading a bit more, sounds like "3" would be wiser
<willcooke> ah, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<happyaron> seb128: hey, I wonder what's the status of nm-applet's 1.2.0 SRU? cyphermox said he uploaded something, but it's not in -proposed yet
<seb128> happyaron, hey, the SRU queue is public, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=
<seb128> but yeah, the SRU team hasn't reviewed much past week it seems
<seb128> I can't really help there, maybe try to ping the SRU member of the day from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Publishing
<willcooke> anyone seeing issues alt-tabbing or alt-graveing between Nautilus windows?
<seb128> not me
<seb128> what sort of issues?
<seb128> but I don't use the by-app switcher
<willcooke> when copying files from a USB drive I can't alt-tab to the copy progress dialog
<willcooke> I'll start a fresh session later a open a bug if it's real
<seb128> oh
<seb128> that's bu g#1575452
<seb128> that's bug #1575452
<ubot5> bug 1575452 in unity (Ubuntu) "Copy/move dialog cannot be switched to" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575452
<willcooke> oh, indeed it is
<seb128> I showed it to Trevinho and andyrock in Prague :-)
<willcooke> wonder why I couldnt find it in LP
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> and I even added it to trello
<willcooke> ?!
<seb128> well, you run the import script
<Trevinho> It was a "feature"... :-)
<seb128> that's what you said in Prague indeed :p
<Trevinho> not that I like, eh... it just that there's even some custom code in order to have that behavior, although, maybe alt-tab should be skipped
<Trevinho> or everything
<qengho> g'morning, all.
<willcooke> hey qengho
<seb128> Trevinho, unsure what was the rational but I think in Prague you agreed it was wrong excluding the copy dialog from the alt-tab list?
<seb128> hello qengho
<jbicha> I believe bug 1573052 needs to be re-opened
<ubot5> bug 1573052 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[packaging] gnome-software provides a broken symlink of /usr/lib/gs-plugins-9/libgs_plugin_xdg_app_reviews.so on Ubuntu 16.04" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1573052
<hikiko> seb128, ping :)
<hikiko> could you help me a little with the ppa again?
<seb128> hikiko, contentless ping pong
<seb128> sure
<hikiko> I think I've done something wrong when I built the packages
<hikiko> because when I try to run the dput command
<hikiko> I get this error:
<hikiko> http://pastebin.com/dkmGGU9V
<hikiko> I don't have a .sig or .asc
<hikiko> I used this command to package compiz for example:
<hikiko> $ dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -S -nc -d
<seb128> hikiko, do you have a gpg key associated to the email you used in debian/changelog?
<hikiko> oh, no :) my launchpad key is associated to my gmail and I used the @canonical.com in changelog
<seb128> k
<hikiko> so, what should I do? create another key or change the email?
<seb128> well you can debsign -k<keyid> *.changes
<seb128> to sign
<hikiko> only the .changes file?
<seb128> that does sign the .changes and .dsc
<hikiko> or the dsc/tarball too?
<seb128> the tarball is not signed
<seb128> but its md5 is in the changes
<seb128> you can also use the -k option on the dpkg-buildpackage line
<seb128> but not need to rebuild the source to sign only
<hikiko> right, but it's good to know for next time
<seb128> hikiko, oh, also you used "-us -uc" in the command you gave, which are the explicit options to not sign
<hikiko> \m/
<hikiko> copied that from a tutorial
<seb128> that's good for local builds
<seb128> but if you want to upload to an archive/ppa you need to sign
<hikiko> dpkg-buildpackage -k <myid> is ok?
<hikiko> or should I add other options too?
<seb128> hikiko, you need the -S" if you want to build a source
<hikiko> maybe I should remove -nc too to build the whole tree
<hikiko> and -d
<seb128> you could yes
<seb128> but not needed
<hikiko> mmm I had this line in .devscripts: DEBSIGN_KEYD=<keyid> but dpkg-buildpackage ignored it :/
<hikiko> KEYID*
<hikiko> anyway :)
<hikiko> also seb128 one final question:
<hikiko> there are instructions on how to delete/add packages to ppa but I wonder if there's some way to update the existing packages next time I have a change (or I just dput the new ones when I have a change?) and if there's any tool local or lp side that can show the ppa changes
<Trevinho> hikiko: just dput the new one with increased changelog version
<hikiko> for example the changelogs of each package in each commit or something that would help me to see what I push everytime
<Trevinho> hikiko: or you can delete the old src from ppa web ui
<seb128> hikiko, try DEB_SIGN_KEYID
<hikiko> thanks :)
<hikiko> btw how can someone track the changes in the ppa? for example if I update it every week, is there any tool that could show me something like ppa "snapshots"
<hikiko> so that I keep track of the progress in this ppa?
<hikiko> week 1: package 1 state, package 2 state, package 3 state
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> hikiko, the tool used to update the changelog is "dch"
<seb128> you usually "dch -i"
<seb128> or -v if it's a new upstream version
<seb128> then rebuild/sign/upload
<hikiko> so I can update the changelog and then use it to track the changes :)
<Trevinho> seb128: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1482 works for me, so when you want you can hit the publish button
<hikiko> seb128, thank you very much :)
<seb128> hikiko, yw!
<seb128> Trevinho, want me to give it a try?
<Trevinho> seb128: if you want to double-check..
<Trevinho> seb128: mostly the screensaver parts, but they seem to work fine here
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm unsure how to test those
<Trevinho> seb128: things like that when screen is locked there's no auto-mount
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> seb128: or well, check where screensaver or session-manager proxies are used. I tested most of them, but if you want a quick check too, feel free
<seb128> k
<jbicha> pitti: I don't know if this is still your area, but do we still have a reason not to have poppler-data on the DVDs but install it after install?
<jbicha> see bug 1591528
<ubot5> bug 1591528 in poppler (Ubuntu) "Merge poppler 0.44.0-3 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591528
<happyaron> seb128: ok, pinged infinity
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<seb128> happyaron, seems it worked ;-)
<willcooke> thanks seb128 happyaron
<seb128> willcooke, yw!
<willcooke> happyaron, would you reply to Chih-Hsyuan's email?
<willcooke> happyaron, just to say its in progress
<happyaron> ok will do
<happyaron> was always wondering how to reply his emails...
<happyaron> seb128: yeah
<willcooke> happyaron, I think just a "it's in progress" is fine
<happyaron> ok
<jbicha> seb128: could you mark bug 1573052 as triaged? the fix isn't in Ubuntu yet (or in attente's PPA)
<ubot5> bug 1573052 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[packaging] gnome-software provides a broken symlink of /usr/lib/gs-plugins-9/libgs_plugin_xdg_app_reviews.so on Ubuntu 16.04" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1573052
<seb128> changed to fix commited
<seb128> which we usually use when there is a fix in upstream git
<jbicha> thanks, that's an annoying bug because g-software isn't bugfree yet and a lot of people see that error and think it might be responsible for whatever problem they're having
<andyrock> back to stockholm :D
<andyrock> this city wants me here
<seb128> did the u.k refuse you?
<andyrock> seb128: nope i never left :D all swedish SAS pilots are basically on strike
<andyrock> i'll try again tomorrow :D
<seb128> lol
<attente> seb128: do you know what debian/outfile is? dh_make seems to output it, but i'm not sure what it's for
<seb128> attente, no idea sorry
<seb128> just delete it? ;-)
<seb128> or ask Laney, he knows those details usually
<Laney> not heard of that one
<seb128> sounds like it could be a bug
<Laney> don't see it as a string in dh-make either
<seb128> like it's supposed to be a variable
<Laney> I call shenanigans
 * Laney stares at attente 
<attente> it's definitely producing debian/outfile...
<seb128> Laney, attente, https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/dh-make.git/commit/?id=ec6863b4ad75e83bab2c5720aca122c1a6e4ca09
<seb128> attente, what dh-make version do you have?
<seb128> I guess could be that bug/fix ^
<attente> seb128: 2.201604
<seb128> k
<seb128> that's it then
<qengho> Hah.
<attente> lol
<seb128> update to 2.201605
<attente> so that should be debian/source/format?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> we should probably SRU that update to the LTS
<seb128> if you want to do it... ;-)
<attente> sure :)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> seb128: any chance you can make me an admin of ubuntu-desktop?
<Laney> or make a gtk320 ppa
<seb128> Laney, enjoy your new admin rights ;-)
<Laney> leaving the dmb has some downsides
<Laney> thanks!
<attente> seb128: do we sru the version in yakkety or just the one commit?
<seb128> attente, depends if the other changes are SRU worth
<seb128> Laney, yw!
<attente> seb128: what do you think? https://paste.fedoraproject.org/378560/83376414/
<attente> don't know enough about packaging to know what's important or not
<attente> i can look into it a bit later
<seb128> attente, depending how much you want to bother, I would probably SRU 201605
<seb128> the SRU team is going to want a bug with testcase by logical change
<seb128> so depends if you want to create some extra ones
<seb128> it's a bit on the too-much side to my taste
<seb128> but it enforce testing things rather than including a bunch of fixes to figure out later than one has a regression
<jbicha> Laney: if you're using GTK 3.20, you'll need to rebuild webkitgtk, webkit2gtk and aisleriot
<Laney> That's the tip of the iceberg
<Laney> (I've been using it for a while already)
<jbicha> you haven't been using the gnome3 staging xenial ppa?
<jbicha> and it needs firefox 48 Beta (or the patched FF 47 in the staging ppa)
<jbicha> libreoffice-gtk3 needs to be fixed but it's not installed by default
<Laney> be calm
<Laney> there's going to be time to fix things, no need to brain dump now
<Laney> (will certainly appreciate help!)
<desrt> hi #u-d!
<desrt> hackfest is going awesome so far
<seb128> hey desrt!
<seb128> nice to read
<seb128> what are the topics?
<desrt> this morning was really useful
<desrt> we came up with a plan for gtk4
<desrt> ...and gtk5, and gtk6, and gtk7...
<desrt> i'm gonna write a blog post soon
<seb128> going to bump the major version on regular timelines?
<desrt> once per two years
<seb128> cool
<desrt> and gonna have like 4.8, 5.8, 6.8, etc as "forever stable" versions, fully parallel installable
<desrt> caveat: 4.0 â 4.2 â 4.4 â 4.6 are going to be unstable (but we do soname)
<desrt> but we are going to be very upfront about that and basically say "this is for gnome -- everyone else use the stable one...."
<desrt> if a gnome app following unstable starts getting unmaintained then other gnome people can step in and fix it...
<attente> seb128: is there a way to sru a new package for xenial? https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snap-desktop-links for lp:1580740
<seb128> attente, yeah, I think uploading a new package is fine
<seb128> attente, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text= as another example
<willcooke> dinner, bbl
<attente> seb128: thanks
<seb128> yw
<willcooke> night
<tsimonq2> qengho: hey, I was told to ping you regarding the chromium-browser package in Ubuntu. In Debian, the chromium package is at 51, but in Ubuntu, it's still at 49, and 50 is FTBFS. I would like to help with getting the chromium-browser package in Ubuntu working again and updated to 51. Would it be wise to fix the FTBFS then update the package to 51, or vice versa if applicable? dobey on
<tsimonq2> #ubuntu-devel said that you would be the one to ping
<qengho> tsimonq2: Hi!
<tsimonq2> hey :)
<tsimonq2> oh, but to clarify, Xenial has 50, but with security updates
<tsimonq2> and that passed fine
<dobey> i was about to say. i'm pretty sure i have 50 installed :)
<qengho> tsimonq2: I upload to a PPA here and test and copy. It's going okay for all except Y. I hoped to fix soon. https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage
<tsimonq2> yeah, I'm on Yakkety, I've been using saiarcot895's PAA for the dev branch
<tsimonq2> *PPA
<tsimonq2> oh okay
<qengho> tsimonq2: If you can figure out that build error on Y, it will be easy. https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+build/9852104
<tsimonq2> qengho: so do you have it under control or can I help?
<tsimonq2> oh okay :)
<tsimonq2> qengho: then can we get 51?
<qengho> tsimonq2: I would be happy if you discover it. If not, I'll get to it soon.
<qengho> tsimonq2: Yes! :)
<tsimonq2> qengho: awesome :)
<tsimonq2> the offending line fwiw: dh_strip.pkg-create-dbgsym: strip --strip-debug --remove-section=.comment --remove-section=.note --enable-deterministic-archives debian/chromium-browser/usr/lib/chromium-browser/obj/net/libnet_extras.a returned exit code 1
<tsimonq2> qengho: how would you usually update releases? do you do it automatically or is it all manual? if it's the former, I'd like to try locally to see if it builds
<qengho> tsimonq2: https://code.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/yakkety-working
<tsimonq2> OH I see
<qengho> tsimonq2: Note that the X (yay!) and Y (FTBFS) debian/ are pretty much the same.
<tsimonq2> qengho: well how do I build it locally? the README instructions aren't working
<tsimonq2> let me be more specific, hold on...
<tsimonq2> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 'get-packaged-orig-source'.  Stop.
<tsimonq2> that pretty much sums it up ^
<qengho> tsimonq2: "bzr bd"
<tsimonq2> \o/ thanks
<qengho> tsimonq2: If it works on your machine but not on the build servers, then you are in the same place I am. :)
<tsimonq2> qengho: so is the README outdated or am I just reading it wrong? :)
<tsimonq2> qengho: maybe I'll upload to a PPA and try then
<tsimonq2> because if it works in a PPA, maybe it just needs a rebuild in the server
<qengho> tsimonq2: Nice. Beware it might be too large for a private P A. And rebuild didn't work. And all architectures failed.
<qengho> tsimonq2: I hope I'm not scaring you off. :P
<tsimonq2> qengho: totally fine, I've dealt with worse :)
<tsimonq2> and hey, I'm happy to be working on a package that I use and know how to use quite a bit :)
<tsimonq2> qengho: while I'm waiting for this, I might as well mention that in Chromium, there is a PR pending that only keeps support for supported releases and adds Yakkety in src/build/install-build-deps.sh
<tsimonq2> that i authored
<tsimonq2> so I'm sorta familiar with the Chromium workflow, not entirely
<qengho> Oh, for upstream? Nice.
<tsimonq2> yep :)
<tsimonq2> O_O I ran out of space on my /home partition
 * qengho passes tsimonq2 the liquor.
<tsimonq2> qengho: I can't, I'm 14 ;)
<qengho> Oh man.
<tsimonq2> qengho: but I appreciate the thought :)
<tsimonq2> stupid me, I was building in a tmpfs... :/
<tsimonq2> working fine now! :P
<Laney> desrt: what do you think distributions are going to ship in your new scheme?
<Laney> if we ship an 'unstable' gtk and then want to update it, that's an abi transition post-release
<Laney> or does each unstable one still get normal point releases?
<tsimonq2> qengho: ...I'm still getting the "Cannot write: No space left on device"
<tsimonq2> error, but df -h shows: /dev/sda2             130G   65G   59G  53% /home
<desrt> Laney: you will ship all of them
<tsimonq2> *shurg*
<tsimonq2> * *shrug*
<desrt> just like there is gtk2 and gtk3 now, there will be gtk2/3/4/5/6
<larsu> will there be a 7 as well?
<desrt> larsu: you can make a difference.  please give generously.
 * larsu looks around
<Laney> desrt: I mean the 4.0 4.2 4.4 4.6
<Laney> we can only have one of those
<desrt> yes.  you will ship the latest.
<desrt> well, you will do it like:
<desrt> libgtk-4-dev, plus libgtk-4-0, libgtk-4-2, libgtk-4-4, etc
<Laney> nope
<desrt> in the usual way that soname transitions happen... you keep the old non-"-dev" package in the archive until everything is rebuilt
<desrt> nope?
<Laney> everything has to be rebuilt
<desrt> yes... that's what i'm saying.
<desrt> but the soname will help with that... you can rebuilt over time
<Laney> for debian and ubuntu these will be blocked in unstable or proposed until that's complete
<desrt> cool
<Laney> which means everything depending on those gets backed up too
<desrt> seeing as those things that get backed up are going to be gnome programs, and gnome releases on the same schedule as gtk anyway, that seems pretty reasonable
<desrt> new gnome release = of course you have to build it
<desrt> fwiw, smcv was an active participant in this discussion
<Laney> i'm worried that it will not be this neat in reality
<desrt> so are we
<Laney> like if the build fixing person is on holiday for a bit
<Laney> or random developer needs a new feature
<desrt> we are pretty deeply concerned about bus factor
<Laney> but isn't on your schedule
<desrt> both in terms of upstream maintainer and package maintainer
<Laney> are stable releases still normal?
<Laney> 4.2.1
<desrt> yes.  of course.
<desrt> "SRUable"
<Laney> okay
<Laney> because doing that in a stable release would be fucked
<desrt> and once we hit 4.6.x we will probably just keep doing micros there
<Laney> so, good :-)
<desrt> :)
<Laney> the rest of it is still scary
<desrt> this is why i wrote this "caution" paragraph
<desrt> in practice this is gonna be pretty fine for gnome.... we have a release team too...
<desrt> as for the others: probably better if they stick with the stable.... if they don't, you can choose not to package them
<Laney> i don't control all the "you"s
<Laney> we would need some policy that says that this shit is quick to remove
<desrt> smcv's take on this is interesting
<desrt> suggestion is: don't do it
<desrt> but if an individual package maintainer wants to put themselves on the line as the "person responsible", then they can
<desrt> and if upstream disappears, it falls to the package maintainer
<Laney> do what?
<desrt> ship independent projects using unstable gtk
<desrt> his words "a bus factor of 2 is twice as good as a bus factor of 1"
<desrt> i think most people will probably just want to avoid the pain... unless they have a very compelling reason
<desrt> all in all, we'll see how it goes... people will figure out how it goes... policies will be made.... it'll work itself out
<Laney> you won't get to random DD that's found cool-project-of-the-day and uploads it
 * larsu hugs Laney
<desrt> imho, that's a debian policy problem
<Laney> that's what I said, we would need a policy that lets us remove that stuff
<desrt> on the other hand, (again, channelling smcv), cool-project-of-the-day, when it stops building, will be marked as having a release-critical bug and dropped from testing
<Laney> we can't have an Ubuntu release (milestone, whatever) blocked by that
 * Laney snuggles larsu 
 * desrt joins the snuggles
 * larsu giggles
<desrt> ...this is getting weird
 * flocculant is off now ... 
<larsu> because we're in the same room?
<Laney> frittata time
 * Laney periscopes himself cooking dinner
<larsu> enjoy!
<desrt> Laney: *hug*
<desrt> it's all gonna be good :)
<Laney> i've had years of poppler and eds transitions
<Laney> these things are sad
<Laney> hope yours are less so
<desrt> in some ways they will be worse
<desrt> the first transition is going to _suck_
<desrt> we'll get better at it
<Laney> this is something which is quite fine in the flatpak world
<desrt> this is nothing new for the distro world either
<larsu> Laney: I think you meant to say snappy
<Laney> it's not new, but it is a pain point
<Laney> larsu: oh yeah, schanppi too
<ochosi> oh, late evening everyone :)
<Laney> ahoy ochosi
<ochosi> yeah, surprised to see you around at this hour :)
<ochosi> i just read the gtk4 post and now i'm skimming through all kinds of channel history to read some of the comments :)
<ochosi> desrt: this is all very interesting. with xfce we waited for a series of gtk3 releases without too many API breaks and then with gtk3.18 it felt like that had come around and then came 3.20 :)
<ochosi> but good to know it's really going to be 3.26
<desrt> 3.26 is an estimate
<ochosi> just wondering whether we should suspend our porting efforts until then
<desrt> it could be 3.24, 3.26, 3.28
<desrt> but when it happens, you will know which one it is
<ochosi> having a moving target is just extremely painful (and ifdefy)
<desrt> nod.
<ochosi> and xfce doesn't have the manpower anyway
<desrt> if you can wait, i'd consider waiting
<desrt> at the same time, not _much_ will change in terms of app-facing API
<ochosi> :)
<desrt> we still follow the same basic rules that we've been following this whole time... we're not going to start going crazy with gtk 3
<ochosi> yeah, i supposed so
<desrt> so if you want to spread out the work over time, it makes sense to start now
<ochosi> we'll probably have to do that
<desrt> you may have to redo 10% of it or something, but that's maybe nicer than saving 100% of it for later... particularly if you'll have the same manpower problems at that time
<ochosi> i would've just hoped not having to target a single gtk3 version for the next xfce release (ya know, we only release every two years ;))
<ochosi> any suggestion from your side on that? originally i was thinking of 3.18 or something, but now it seems targetting below 3.20 doesn't make too much sense
<ochosi> (which means we have to redo at least all the included css :'()
<Laney> man
<Laney> I hope the theme API stays stable
 * Laney cries
<ochosi> and the worst part for xubuntu as a distribution is: possibly we can ship xfce in gtk3 for one release, but not the next (if ubuntu main decides to go with the next gtk3)
 * seb128 is not going to comment in that discussion ;-)
<ochosi> simply because xfce upstream won't be able to keep up
<desrt> Laney: lol.
<seb128> nobody is really
 * ochosi pats Laney on the shoulder knowingly
<seb128> I've been Cced on eclipse discussions speaking about going back to gtk2 as default because they can't keep up with gtk3 issues between series
<desrt> once we have 3.26 or whatever, it's stable forever
<desrt> seb128: tell them that gtk3 will be stable "soon" =)
<larsu> seb128: that's what we're trying to fix
<larsu> seb128: hi seb128 :)
<seb128> hey larsu
<Laney> you get to rewrite all of the theme every 2 years instead? :P
<desrt> better than once per 6 months
<seb128> larsu, well, you "fix" it only if you maintain old series which I doubt is going to happen in practice
<seb128> if you don't you just force everybody to move over or be screwed
<seb128> so in practice you don't fix anything
<seb128> but let's see
<ochosi> so in practice everybody is gonna be screwed? :p
<desrt> seb128: you just said that people are planning to go back to gtk2 because they like that better
<ochosi> larsu: do you miss all of this already? ;)
<desrt> we're about to give people a gtk3 that's just as stable as gtk2
<desrt> why are you bitter about that?
<seb128> desrt, yeah, they like it better but it sucks
<seb128> it's not touch friendly
<seb128> when you report bugs against it you get laught at
<seb128> etc
<desrt> i'm sorry... you can't have it all
<desrt> "new features!  fix stuff!  change everything!"
<desrt> "... WHY DID YOU CHANGE IT?!"
<seb128> somewhat other platforms manage to move forward while not breaking in incompatible ways
<ochosi> +1
<seb128> ask didrocks to tell you about what google does next time you see him ;-)
<desrt> other platforms have an order of magnitude or 2 more developers....
<seb128> right, I'm not saying it's easy or doable
<seb128> just that other platforms do it
<ochosi> :>
<seb128> and we are not going to win devs if we screw them
<seb128> having good reasons or not
<desrt> at worst, this policy just aligns us with what Qt does
<desrt> new incompatable (but parallel installable) major releases on a timeline measured in years
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> though 5 to 10 years is a better timeframe to break things
<seb128> more frequently than that is not going to get you appdev sympathy
<desrt> ...and then you get people complaining that gtk2 is stable, but too damn old
<desrt> and it's not like we really break you once per two years.  you can stay with the old one forever.
<seb128> yeah, but nobody is going to fix bugs on those series
<desrt> gtk is a free software project in which people do work that they think is valuable
<desrt> if people want to step up to fix bugs on stable releases, because they think it is valuable work, we would welcome them with open arms
<desrt> nobody has really done that, though
<desrt> so apparently nobody really thinks that it's valuable enough
<seb128> somewhat true
<seb128> though in practice some people do
<seb128> but their patches never get reviewed
<seb128> and they go away
<desrt> we should get better at that
<desrt> i'll admit
<desrt> (we're talking at the hackfest now about how to fix this)
<seb128> (great)
<ochosi> desrt: i appreciate all your efforts and that you're a small team - and sorry to get back to "my problems" :) - but what would your advice be now for a small desktop like xfce?
<ochosi> which version can we meaningfully target with a stable release - obviously maximizing the hope that distros can ship it with "some gtk3 version" without major breakage?
<ochosi> i'm still focused on the present situation ("road to 3.26" or so), not the overall long term strategy
<ochosi> would you recommend to just target 3.20 (and exclude all distros that ship something below) or even try to target 3.22 already (knowing that it'll take a few more months until we're release-ready)?
<desrt> we're talking about your situation in the room
<ochosi> (atm we're caught in <=3.18 | >=3.20 ifdef hell)
<desrt> opinion: start porting now.  release in a year.
<ochosi> and target whatever is around until then? :)
<desrt> we're not going to be able to commit to a specific gtk version being the "last 3 stable" until the gnome release team gets involved
<desrt> more or less, ya
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> thanks for discussing this
<ochosi> (honestly)
<ochosi> seb128: how invested is ubuntu desktop in gtk anyway atm? i thought you guys were moving towards qt with convergence?
<seb128> ochosi, we try to keep up with upgrades as best effort thing
<seb128> Laney stepped up to redo the them and update to 3.20
<seb128> if he didn't do that I think we would probably have stayed on 3.18 for some cycles
<ochosi> what, so 16.10 is definitely going to go 3.20?
<ochosi> Laney: did you really think that through? :]
<seb128> ochosi, don't make him think too much
<seb128> I think the guy is slightly crazy
<seb128> but let him run for it, he might get us there ;-)
<ochosi> (sry, don't have time to follow your discussions during the day because of $dayjob and the last i heard was you had put off 3.20 for at least another release)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well i've looked at what's to do there (and i likely will have to do it myself for xubuntu), it's definitely not nothing
<ochosi> i think rebasing on top of adwaita is the only feasible way
<seb128> I don't know
<seb128> but Laney has been head down full time on the theme for like 10 days
<seb128> we don't see him much on IRC anymore
<seb128> he seems to have it mostly done now though
<ochosi> wow, nice
<seb128> unsure how much impact it has on other things and other flavors
<ochosi> well, same impact it had on you
<seb128> we can't really land screwing other flavors
<seb128> and I doubt he's going to want to port your theme as well
<seb128> so dunno what happens to the landing then
<ochosi> haha, meh ;)
<ochosi> tbh it's not just that
<ochosi> all applications that have some css embedded (and quite a few do) will need updates as well
<seb128> right
<seb128> most are GNOME code though
<seb128> and they fixed their stuff
<ochosi> hah, you'd think
<seb128> well, most of non GNOME don't use gtk3 :p
<ochosi> i know of at least two apps off the top of my head which are not
<ochosi> yeah yeah
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i helped port lightdm-gtk-greeter to gtk3 and it has custom css
<ochosi> then there are some xfce apps that i worked on where i tried to be "modern" and keep up with gnome
<ochosi> anyway, if we know in advance, maybe we can get most of that fixed / ifdefd
<ochosi> but still, it'll boil down to how many ppl want to sit and code in their free time during the summer
<ochosi> i gotta get some sleep now
<ochosi> thanks for the discussion though
<ochosi> night everyone!
<ochosi> and thanks for the advice, desrt, we'll see what model we'll end up with...
<desrt> ochosi: thanks for hanging in there ;)
<desrt> we're trying to get better.  this new system is the first big step.
<ochosi> well what i can already tell you as a positive feedback is that now at least there seems to be an announced longterm roadmap
<ochosi> so that is helpful either way
<desrt> thanks for the feedback =)
<ochosi> i'll try to be more communicative about all this, just don't have enough free time these days
<ochosi> anyway, off to bed now
<robert_ancell> jbicha, did you file bug 1592001 upstream?
<ubot5> bug 1592001 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) ""OS Updates is now installed" is bad English grammar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592001
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-14
<hikiko> hi
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, good morning! wie gehts?
<Sweet5hark> good.
 * Sweet5hark is sitting on his new ergonomic chair that was delivered yesterday. veeery goood.
<seb128> nice
<seb128> I've an appointement from 10 to 11, going now for ~1.5h, bbl
<willcooke> morning all
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> evening TheMuso
<Laney> hiyaaaaa
<willcooke> hi Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> what goes on
<willcooke> Laney, hoping to join the snappy playpen this morning
<willcooke> Gonna get my snap on, yo
<Laney> aw snap
<willcooke> Get me a crocodile sandwhich, and.....
<willcooke> *sandwich
<popey> willcooke: had any reports of gnome-software not launching on clean 16.04? Getting reports of it on G+ https://plus.google.com/u/0/113265616461398876314/posts/baxfS6azWGF
<willcooke> popey, that error is a red herring, and harmless
<willcooke> but no, I don't think we've seen a general issue with it not loading
<popey> hmm
<willcooke> urgh G+ is slloooowwww
<willcooke> in fact, it looks like G+ has gone away
<willcooke> wth
<willcooke> popey, for some reason G+ is broken for me right now
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1573052
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1573052 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[packaging] gnome-software provides a broken symlink of /usr/lib/gs-plugins-9/libgs_plugin_xdg_app_reviews.so on Ubuntu 16.04" [Low,Fix committed]
<alexarnaud> Hello willcooke, seb128 and all !
<willcooke> hey alexarnaud
<Trevinho> Hello
<willcooke> morning Trevinho
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<Laney> how's it going?
<Trevinho> allright, London weather isn't the best for this season, but having fun anyway :)
<Trevinho> you?
<Laney> so wet
<Laney> not me
<Laney> but the surrounding area of planet earth
<Laney> Trevinho: just uploading some fun things for you
<Laney> :D
<Laney> don't understand WTF is up with unity-greeter
<Trevinho> Laney: mh, so your going to break the desktop? :-)
<Trevinho> Laney: what happens with the greater?
<Laney> weird stuff like if you press escape the entry disappears
<Laney> break> just in a ppa for now :P
<seb128_> hey again there
<Laney> hi seb128_!
<Laney> nice tail
<seb128_> hey Laney
<seb128_> thanks
<seb128_> connecting from a different computer while my main one is online home
<Laney> nice
<Laney> where are you?
<seb128_> decided to work a bit from outside before getting lunch and coming back
<seb128_> I had an appointement in town
<Laney> having a skinny mocaccino
<seb128_> getting some coffee atm
<seb128_> haha
 * Laney could have one of those right now
<Laney> minus the skinny
<seb128_> :-)
<seb128_> on other news autumn is back
<seb128_> and it sucks
<seb128_> 17Â°C and rainy
<Laney> INDEED
<seb128_> wth
<Laney> keeping things watered at the allotment though
<Laney> if not giving them the sun to grow ...
<seb128_> right
<Laney> it is supposed to be like this all week
<seb128_> indeed :-(
<Laney> it's the apocalypse coming
<Laney> aka vote leave
<seb128_> it was fun to feel welcome in your country
<Laney> i was talking to some local politicians in the pub the other day
<seb128_> going to miss that
<Laney> they had been out campaigning for remain
<Laney> but were quite depressed
<seb128_> oh?
<seb128_> well it's the usual bs
<seb128_> people put all issues on the current institutions
<Laney> the anti immigration message is winning the day
<seb128_> have migrants issues? it's the e.u!
<seb128_> right :-/
<seb128_> I don't get it
<seb128_> on some things you can argue
<seb128_> like economics impact
<seb128_> but migrants are not created or enforced by the e.u
<seb128_> oh well
<seb128_> I still hope remain wins
<seb128_> the pools tend to voice angry people and those are the ones wanting to leave
<Laney> this week is labour's turn to lead the campaigning apparently
<Laney> see if they manage to do some messaging
<flocculant> Laney: all pretty depressing ...
<Laney> flocculant: do some short selling of uk company shares
<flocculant> I can afford to buy 1 share :p
<Laney> or currency trading
<Laney> there's money to be made here somewhere!
<flocculant> :)
 * Laney gels his hair and drives around in an open topped car
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<seb128_> next time we come to London we can play monopoly with some of those wortless british pounds!
<Laney> haha
<flocculant> I think they're hoping to get back to when a pound weighed a pound
<seb128> back on my main irc ;-)
<Laney> yeah boi
<willcooke> hey seb128
<seb128> hey Laney willcookel :-)=
<flexiondotorg> desrt, This is interesting reading - https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/ :-)
<Laney> Trevinho: I added you to a card which links to the PPA and lists some outstanding issues
<Laney> if you could help that would be grrrrreat
 * Laney goes to lunchies
<Laney> amazingly the sun has come out
<jbicha> attente: what do you think of bug 1592382?
<ubot5> bug 1592382 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Updates are notified even when they are installed automatically" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592382
<andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/gtk/lp-1574693-shadows/+merge/293082
<seb128> andyrock, I don't know that part of the code enough to comment, I trust you/trevinho but would be good to have desrt to have a look in case she has any comment
<seb128> she did the reviews for the patch when it landed
<andyrock> ok, just because people started to complain
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> yeah, I saw that bug report
<seb128> thanks for fixing it!
<seb128> are you in London now btw? ;-)
<seb128> oh, and hey andyrock!
<andyrock> i actually forgot I had a branch since Prague's spring
<andyrock> *t
<andyrock> i'm in the aiport
<andyrock> *airport
<andyrock> and hey seb128
<andyrock> \me forgot to say 'hey' this morning
<seb128> :-)
<Trevinho> andyrock: so, all flights going today?
<andyrock> nope the pilot of my flight is Danish
<Trevinho> Just another reason for swedish people to love danish
<Trevinho> Laney: thinking to the white BGs with new gtk, could be somehwhat similar to what we were getting in xenial with calendar app?
<Trevinho> Laney: that had a custom theme, but still shown the issue only in unity
<Sweet5hark> serious thunderbolt and lightning here
 * Sweet5hark better unplugs the laptop.
<Laney> Trevinho: don't know
<Laney> I think the background support is patched back in by Ubuntu though
<willcooke> The calendar background specifically was fixed upstream by moving the background colour out of the code and in to CSS.  (Dont know if that's relevent)
<Trevinho> mh i see
<Trevinho> willcooke: ah!
<willcooke> Trevinho, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765664
<ubot5> Gnome bug 765664 in User Interface ".view style cannot be overridden by external CSS" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Trevinho> willcooke: that's fine. Although the weird thing was that even without css change, the bg wasn't white in platforms != Unity
<desrt> hihi
<Laney> Trevinho: Let me take the white background issue for now please
<Laney> would rather you focus on the unity ones if that's okay
<Laney> morning desrt
<Laney> you are the internet's #1 enemy I see
<Trevinho> Laney: sure, that's why I was wondering this.. .If this somewhat related to our missing suppor to clientside decorations as gtk would like
<seb128> desrt, hello, how is the hackfest going?
<seb128> don't read the internet comments!
 * willcooke tears himself away from learning qmake to start the meeting
 * Laney recycles last week's update
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: isnt that a welcome excuse?
 * seb128 recycles too
<desrt> seb128: excellent!
<desrt> talks about portals today
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 14 15:31:31 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic:
<Laney> Trevinho: The unity ones are probably the selectors not matching
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock (airport), attente(hackfest), desrt(hackdest),  dgadomski, fjkong, happyaron, hikiko(out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<Trevinho> Laney: as for that is likely
<Laney> you've got some custom css in there that I should think n eeds refreshing
<Trevinho> o/
<willcooke> desrt, attente - are you really here?
<seb128> hey!
<desrt> willcooke: i am here and will is 3m away
<Laney> miles
<desrt> that is not the standard meaning of "m" in the SI system
<Laney> moons
<larsu> desrt: that's less than 3m
<Laney> moos
<Laney> ..."Have you mooed today?"...
<qengho> 1.5 centifurlongs.
<desrt> larsu points out that it's more like 2.5m
<desrt> "from laptop to laptop"
<desrt> i rounded up
 * larsu gets measuring tape
<Trevinho> larsu: get your rule out
<Trevinho> ruler*
<willcooke> right, lets kick off
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> 1. [BUG:1582430] spinning wheel when opening Rhythmbox from
<willcooke> Dash/Launcher WHEN it is already playing music - COMPLETED
<willcooke> 2. [BUG:1460649] Can't unlock screen with last day password (before
<willcooke> expired) - WIP
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: attente
<willcooke> shall we come back to attente?
<willcooke> yes
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> "did i disconnect or something?" he says
<desrt> hi
<desrt> i'm at the hackfest, making uncontroversial blogposts
<willcooke> :D
<desrt> we were talking about gtk release stuff yesterday... today we talk about portals, which is nice
<desrt> tomorrow will be something else :)
<desrt> attente will be reconnected soon
<desrt> eof
<attente> hey, sorry, back
<willcooke> desrt, any news on the relocatable work you were doing?
<desrt> right!  i should discuss that this afternoon
<desrt> will let you know
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: attente
<desrt> i generally have a good vibe
<attente> prepared sru for g-s, lp:1590508, making one quick change
<attente> packaged snapd-xdg-open, sru for lp:1580740, needs sponsoring
<attente> dh-make srus for lp:1592134 and lp:1592136
<attente> minor fix to mp for lp:1392699
<attente> ubuntu software snap promotion
<attente> gtk hackfest this week, menu api re-factor discussion, i think we're mostly converged on a decent api
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * found and reported 2 samba bugs (regressions): bug #1592326 & bug #1592327, reported upstream, debugging & working on a fix
<ubot5> bug 1592326 in samba (Ubuntu) "Permissions not inherited by files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592326
<ubot5> bug 1592327 in samba (Ubuntu) "force create mode not enforced on newly created files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592327
<dgadomski> * started working on a darktable snap - still struggling with some issues to run it correctly
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> hi
<FJKong> * bug tracking could not switch to sogou im in some app
<FJKong> in processing
<FJKong> * some warning output when installing package
<FJKong> * bug 1534492 can't use fcitx in ubuntu-sdk-ide, could not be reproduced yet after upgrading
<ubot5> bug 1534492 in Ubuntu SDK IDE "Can't use fcitx for Chinese with QtCreator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1534492
<FJKong> * snappy learning
<FJKong> * public holiday
<FJKong> eof
<willcooke> thanks FJKong - good news about the fcitx im & the sdk
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: happyaron
<happyaron> hey
<happyaron> * some follow up on nm issues
<happyaron> * meet with Sogou guys for mobile version, report pending
<happyaron> was on holidays during Thursday to Friday
<happyaron> eof
<willcooke> thanks happyaron
<willcooke> glad to see the nm srus are moving
<willcooke> and could you take a look at the email from cking re zfs
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: hikiko
<willcooke> - OEM project:
<willcooke> |-- document weeks 2,3
<willcooke> |-- installed tools, client (connection issues see mail)
<willcooke> |-- setup the windows partiton etc
<willcooke> - Compiz/Unity
<willcooke> |-- scale option in compiz to skip intermediate fade steps:
<willcooke>     https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/compiz/compiz.speed-up-scale
<willcooke> |-- u7 uses the scale and expo options in low gfx mode:
<willcooke>    https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.skip-expo-scale-fading-steps
<willcooke> |-- ppa with low gfx mode changes:
<willcooke>    https://launchpad.net/~hikiko/+archive/ubuntu/lgfx
<willcooke> - Awaiting review:
<willcooke> |-- shadows for shaped windows: https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.shadows-on-existing-pixmaps
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: larsu
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: Laney
<willcooke> old habbits
<Laney> â¢ theme, now in ppa:ubuntu-desktop/gtk320 for your testification & Trevinho is helping out on some remaining issues, thanks pal xxx
<Laney> â¢ discuss some API design with hughsie
<Laney> â¢ merge gtk+3.0 gtk+2.0 baobab adwaita-icon-theme, rebuild aisleriot for ppa
<Laney> â¢ help with some cdimage issues
<Laney> ðµ
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<seb128> how are we looking on landing or not the new gtk?
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: qengho
<willcooke> oops, sorry seb128
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> can be a aob topic
<willcooke> ack
<qengho> * snaps.
<qengho> ** Chrome/chromium security policies coming along. jds is taking most of the hard stuff.
<qengho> ** claimed dekko mail client.
<qengho> ** some work on tor browser.
<qengho> ** minecraft some, but mostly making notes for MSFT to do it now. :(
<qengho> * Still workign on Chromium FTBFS in builders on Y. Works locally. Same debian/ as 16.04, which works. Need to mimic build-server more.
<qengho> * /me lives 5 blocks from that club in Orlando. Me and my immediate tribe are okay. Helicopters overhead are distracting.
<qengho> * away tomorrow
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> glad you're all ok
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ snaps mostly this week
<seb128> â¢ did snaps for gnome-logs (git gnome-3-18), gucharmap (git trunk), started on evince but it has relocation issues, looked at brasero but probably more work that it's worth (integration with command line utilities and relocation and the project is not that active)
<seb128> â¢ reported some snapcraft and snapd bugs, joined some IRC/gitter discussions
<seb128> â¢ usual rounds of SRUs testing, sponsoring and bug triage
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> - updated snap from upstream beta1 to beta2
<Sweet5hark> - moved from monkey-patching to a git-format-patch/git-am patch queue
<Sweet5hark> - tried a full l10n build, that loops unfortunately, so punted for now
<Sweet5hark> - made LibreOffice aware of the bundled JRE
<Sweet5hark>   (Unfortunately, for now one still has to go to Tools->Options->Advanced and check the option field for the JRE -- but at least one doesnt have to search for the JRE path)
<Sweet5hark> - first run doesnt just create config and exit, its now restarted to show a start center on the first run
<Sweet5hark> - disabled the crashing gtk3 filepickers in the default config, using the LO internal ones for now
<Sweet5hark> - uploaded and prepared with some basic metadata, but of no use as devmode and store current do play nice together
<Sweet5hark> - thus uploaded to pcc and blogged about it
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<Sweet5hark> oh, speaking of filing snapd/snapcraft issues, yeah should do that
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark - nice going on the snap
<willcooke> please do
<willcooke> oh, could you append a known issues to your blog post?
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, ^
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Started working on putting some snaps together, got flac and vorbis-tools essentially building, but trying to make sure I haven't missed anything that needs to be included but is not... More reading and learning to do, also hitting a snag when trying to check out from git via https, will ask relevant folks if I am unable to work it out myself. The cdparanoia snap is yet to be started, since that requires accessing particular
<willcooke> hardware, and I am not  up to speed on making sure thats possible yet.
<willcooke> * Continued working on some alsa related merges, haven't finished due to prioritising snaps.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - Phone: Reviewed Marc Oliver Gern's printing UI design in Unity 8 by his Google document and had a video call with him.
<tkamppeter> - splix: Synced from Debian.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Added quirk rule for Dell PostScript printers to pdftops.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released version 1.9.0 with the CUPS page accounting, which was incomplete for long time. Also new in this release: Debug lodding in cups-browsed, fixed hang on system shutdown with systemd, fixed gstoraster error output, many dosumentation fixes.
<tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting: Updated Ricoh's PPDs on the site and downloadable PPD packages.
<tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2016: Guide students through their projects
<tkamppeter> - Bugs
<tkamppeter> Any news about LSB SRU?
<willcooke> I chased again on Monday, will speak to them later on
<tkamppeter> Seems that it will get more urgent in the form of OpenPrinting distro-independent drivers using snap instead of LSB.
<willcooke> I thought I saw it in the queue, but it was a fix for W
<tkamppeter> Will Snap replace the LSB soon (in general)?
<willcooke> I don't know, I think there will be some work to do on the interfaces first
<willcooke> so, probably not a priority
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Attended Unity8 sprint:
<Trevinho>  - got unity8 running in mir on X (and fixed the issues preventing the whole thing
<Trevinho>    to work if it was inside an LXC container)
<Trevinho>  - fixed some qtmir issues that caused an app (unity8 shell) not being properly
<Trevinho>    focused, and thus not getting input events
<Trevinho>  - Fixed unity8-dash running in proper Mir instance (when unity8 is launched)
<Trevinho>  - Discussed about how to manage menus from both native and libertine apps in u8
<Trevinho>    + Assigned on getting a component to bridge stuff between mir and X surfaces
<Trevinho>  - Got assigned on porting unity8 menus to use ListItemLayout components
<Trevinho>    and then adapting the UI to be usable in pointer-mode
<Trevinho> Â· For few days in London:
<Trevinho>  - Working with SDK/design people for the menu stuff
<Trevinho>  - Created some fake Menu models for testing stuff
<Trevinho>  - Implemented first standard menus
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho, great stuff :)
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Snapping up GTK+ apps / filing issues with snappy
<willcooke> - LightDM work for split greeter / fix issues with Unity 8
<willcooke> - Fixed up GNOME Software review average calculation
<willcooke> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-06-14 | Current topic: any other business
<seb128> I was wondering what we think for the gtk update
<seb128> and if more help is needed from other team members
<seb128> Laney, ^ you probably have the best overview there
<seb128> do you have notes somewhere on what is still to do?
<seb128> things like maybe the mir backend needing a refresh (was that tested?), knows apps that have an issue
<Laney> some on https://trello.com/c/EXpA6lKW
<Laney> would have to get a mir patch if needed before uploading of course
<Laney> should hope there's not much that wasn't merged in for 3.20
<seb128> k
<seb128> let us know if you need help with some fo the remaining things
<seb128> also unsure how much other flavors are going to be an issue for landing :Ã¨/
<seb128> xubuntu seems like they have the same issue than us, need to find resources to get their theme updated
<Laney> usual issue isn't it
<Laney> but someone has started working on that
<Laney> i found a bug with a patch
<seb128> great
<seb128> k, that was it from me I think
<Laney> trying the ppa would be good
<Laney> and I would really like to not be the only person fixing theme issues
<seb128> I don't even have an y box atm
<Laney> going from 1 to 0 to 1 people knowing the theme
<Laney> not ideal
<seb128> but I'm going to try to give it a try in a vm
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> well willcooke knows a bit about it and helped previous cycle
<seb128> otherwise l_arsu never found somebody to step up helping
<seb128> so I've a feeling it's going to be the same here
<willcooke> oops, sorry, was talking elsewhere
 * willcooke reads
<attente> is anyone available to sponsor this sru? https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1580740
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1580740 in Snappy "[SRU] Cannot open a browser link from a snap that provides a link" [High,Triaged]
<willcooke> @ themes - happy to pitch in where I can.  Also, a new hire can use that as a good learning excercise
<seb128> attente, did it land in yakkety yet?
<meetingology> willcooke: Error: "themes" is not a valid command.
<seb128> needs that before SRU
<Laney> I mean
<Laney> I have to be able to get off this onto appstream stuff soon
<willcooke> speaking of new hires - 3 interviews over the last week - will feedback today (really)
<Laney> and for that I would like to be able to not have to switch back to theme all the time if possible
<Laney> wishful thinking :P
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm with you in theory
<seb128> in practice I don't see anyone stepping up
<seb128> so if you don't do it, it's just likely that gtk stales on its current version
<seb128> or maybe somebody from Ubuntu GNOME steps up...
<seb128> or one of the new hires when we get them
<seb128> anyway, if anywant wants to help there please do!
<Laney> fine
<willcooke> MATE might be able to offer a little help, since their themes are not a million miles away from ours
<Laney> I was hoping someone on our taem
<Laney> but if I have to be alone so be it
<seb128> sorry Laney :-/
<Laney> at least Trevinho is going to help out a bit now
<seb128> :-)
<attente> seb128: hasn't landed, what's involved there? do i just need to change the debian/changelog release name?
<seb128> attente, yes, and use different versions for the series
<Laney> I would like to go work on gnome-software upstreaming too, since nobody is doing that either really
<Trevinho> Laney: I'm about to run my VM with the stuff in
 * Laney snuggles Trevinho 
<Laney> jbicha: thanks for the fixed nautilus
<Laney> and firefox
<seb128> willcooke, I think we are done on that topic
<willcooke> thanks guys, Laney I can lend a hand if you need something fixing.
<jbicha> Laney: nautilus 3.20? it still has some issues
<willcooke> Laney, also see if Robert can help with the u/s
<Laney> jbicha: background work
<Laney> s
<Laney> apart from crossfading
<willcooke> oki, let's wrap the meeting, thanks everyone
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Tag "gtk318" for gtk 3.18 bugs please and thanks
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 14 16:06:52 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-06-14-15.31.moin.txt
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> nautilus 3.20 has small icons too
<Laney> happy seb128 is happy
<Laney> also REALLY BIG ones
<jbicha> the REALLY BIG ones are default :/
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> jbicha: previous version didn't even have the option for small ones
<jbicha> so I updated bug 1583403 yesterday (sorry for the long bug description)
<ubot5> bug 1583403 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Install button still shows after Installing app" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583403
<jbicha> I feel that shouldn't be too difficult to fix
<jbicha> but if I were going to try to look at fixing it, I don't know where to go to get the Ubuntu-specific work
<attente> jbicha: there's a branch on git.gnome.org: wip/ubuntu-xenial
<Laney> debian/README.source tells you which branch
<Laney> wip/ubuntu-xenial
<Laney> that bug is known though, you should check if attente didn't start working on it already
<attente> i've looked into that and it wasn't easy to fix (for me at least)
<jbicha> ok, I tried looking there but there's a lot of ubuntu branches!
<jbicha> it's probably not easy for me either but at least I have a little better idea of the problem than I did before
<Laney> luckily the apt plugin is going to mostly die in a fire for Y
<jbicha> sure, but there are some small things that are big annoyances to xenial users
<Laney> 'for Y' does imply that things need fixing in it for X
<jbicha> what do you think of bug 1592382? and setting org.gnome.software download-updates false
<ubot5> bug 1592382 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "Updates are notified even when they are installed automatically" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592382
<attente> i'm not sure what we can do there. the bubble is pretty useless tbh since it doesn't even say to open gnome-software to do the updates
<attente> we can probably just remove it entirely
<attente> (there used to be a button that would launch g-s, but we've disabled it since it shows the ugly notification dialog)
<jbicha> +1 for disabling the popups and just have update-manager do updates for now
<Trevinho> Laney: do you have a sumarize of what changed in gtk3.20 theme handling?
<Laney> Trevinho: yep, https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2015/11/20/a-gtk-update/ and https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2015/12/22/css-boxes-in-gtk/ and https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2016/04/29/yet-another-gtk-update/ and https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/chap-css-overview.html and https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/chap-css-properties.html are tabs that I had open for like 3 weeks
<Laney> Trevinho: go to the widget factory and use the inspector to select something, then look at "CSS nodes"
<Laney> those are the things you now select in CSS to style
<Laney> and! the documentation now covers these - most widgets have a "CSS nodes" section in there
<Laney> for example look at https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkScale.html
<Laney> to style the slider you can do "scale > contents > trough > slider { border: 1px solid red; }" for example
<jbicha> attente: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767378#c5
<ubot5> Gnome bug 767378 in General "Disable app folder feature when run outside of GNOME" [Normal,Assigned]
<attente> jbicha: want me to cherry pick for the sru?
<seb128> attente, jbicha, at some point we need to iterate and upload that SRU, we can do another one with the next round of fixes after that one
<attente> seb128: it looks like a safe cherry-pick. i'm ok with taking it
<seb128> k
<attente> actually... never mind. i don't think that setting is used in 3-20
<attente> let's leave it till the next one
<seb128> attente, re snapd-xdg-open, did that get reviewed/acked by the snap team?
<seb128> looks like mvo would be a good person to sponsor that one
<attente> seb128: maybe. he did help quite a lot with merging the changes
<jbicha> attente: the patch in comment 5 doesn't need a setting
<seb128> he's not online atm, I'm going to try to talk to him tomorrow morning
<jbicha> I'm ok with waiting until the next g-s sru, it's up to y'all
<attente> jbicha: it seems safe to me. i'll take yours from the bug
<jbicha> attente: ok, it's lp bug 1590152
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1590152 in GNOME Software "Disable "app folder" feature when run outside GNOME Shell" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590152
<attente> jbicha: thanks
<Laney> night!
<seb128> night Laney
<attente> seb128: hey, everyone here is about to leave for lunch, but i updated the g-s sru to include jbicha's changes too
<seb128> attente, thanks, my understanding was that Laney said he would sponsor that SRU, he called it a day but I'm going to sort it out with him tomorrow morning
<seb128> attente, enjoy your lunch!
<seb128> dinner time, bbl!
<davmor2> seb128: are you on a intel box on 16.10 do you have any issues with mouse ala https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<flocculant> davmor2: pretty sure it's a xfce/lxde thing - but could of course be completely wrong
<davmor2> flocculant: would seem odd to me to only affect one or the other desktop if it is the driver it should affect everything or nothing I could be completely wrong of course. It just seems odd.
<flocculant> davmor2: only seems to be xfce or lxde people pinging the bug
<flocculant> could be wrong ofc
<davmor2> flocculant: indeed, have both moved over to gtk3 yet?
<flocculant> not afaik - we're kind of half and half ish - ochosi would be able to give more there
<davmor2> flocculant: I wonder if that might be part of it?  again could be completely wrong
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> from what I've seen it's not *buntu - but more general
<flocculant> I got lost chasing down bugs from here there and everywhere
<alexarnaud> Good night all ! See you tomorrow !
<willcooke> qqqqqqmaaaaaaaaaaaaake
 * willcooke shakes fist 
<davmor2> willcooke: I'm getting a feeling here yes, yes, it's coming through nice and clear now, you have issues with qmake
<willcooke> it is full of llies
<willcooke> lies
<willcooke> :)
<davmor2> willcooke: :D
<willcooke> in fairness, it's almost certainly my fault
<davmor2> willcooke: I would of blamed you either way ;)
<willcooke> ha
<willcooke> safe bet
<seb128> davmor2, no, I'm on the lts until at least .1
<willcooke> right, enough for today
<willcooke> night all
<mhall119> hey guys, now that snapd is becoming available on other distros, are we going to be able to get the Gnome Software backend for it included into upstream?
<robert_ancell> desrt, was there a reason why you didn't go with GTK 5 is unstable, 6 is stable?
<robert_ancell> attente, still online?
<attente> robert_ancell: yeah
<attente> robert_ancell: how's it going?
<robert_ancell> attente, good
<robert_ancell> attente, I was wondering if you'd done any work on upstreaming the G-S snap work
<robert_ancell> I had a branch locally I was cleaning up, I think we should see what we can get upstream
<attente> robert_ancell: not really. i rebased on top of master, but not very much there is upstreamable (wip/william/cherry-pick-4)
<robert_ancell> attente, what's the purpose of the cherry pick branch?
<robert_ancell> And I've lost track of the other branches - Should we still have both wip/ubuntu-changes and wip/ubuntu-xenial?
<attente> i did the cherry pick hoping to make it more clear what parts of the delta serve what purpose
<attente> for the sru i've been using wip/ubuntu-xenial
<attente> robert_ancell: which is your branch?
<attente> oh, it's local
<robert_ancell> attente, so I should delete wip/ubuntu?
<robert_ancell> wip/ubuntu-changes I mean
<robert_ancell> And we'll make a wip/ubuntu-yakkety at some point in the future?
<attente> sure
<robert_ancell> gone
<robert_ancell> attente, the wip/temp/*-rebased branches still valid?
<robert_ancell> attente, also, do you own all of wip/attente/*, wip/william/*, wip/williamhua/* ?
<attente> robert_ancell: i do, but i can clean those up tomorrow. for the temp branches, i don't need them but maybe Laney might want the non-corrected one
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-15
<nityanandi> Hello. I would like some help installing wireless network in Ubuntu 16.04 please
<nityanandi> TP-Link Archer T8E using Broadcom 4360 chipset. The proprietary drivers allow connection to router but no internet service is available.
<dobey> nityanandi: #ubuntu is the help channel
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> hey seb128!
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> how is your team week going?
<pitti> seb128: it's going quite well actually!
<pitti> apart from having shoestring and yoghurt can internet
<seb128> but you have some sun right?
<pitti> half of my week's TODO is done
<seb128> can't have it tall!
<pitti> plenty :)
<seb128> all
<seb128> oh, nice
<seb128> what do you focus on this week?
<pitti> seb128: working with cking on arm64 kernel FUBAR, with cyphermox on network yaml, with tdaix on java testing automation, discuss some boot speed isuses, etc.
<seb128> oh, boot ... do you guys plan to optimize back the desktop start? it has been a while we didn't look at that
<pitti> seb128: for 16.10 this is just about some low-hanging fruit
<pitti> we found two
<pitti> fwupd takes two full seconds in "early" desktop start, that seems very expensive
<pitti> and gnome-software could probably start later, rather than slowing down the desktop start
<pitti> and in QEMU cloud images we should ues MODULES=dep, speeds up kernel boot time by a second (1.5 s -> 0.6 s)
<pitti> everything smaller than that is post-16.10, and needs some proper infra for gating on boot speed regressions
<seb128> pitti, right, I pointed out the gnome-software start-with-session thing before 16.04 when we added the service
<seb128> but it was late in the cycle and people were still fighting with landing features
<pitti> seb128: I don't see a bug for it yet, I'll file one
<pitti> also need to find what this "fwupd" thing is
<seb128> yeah, I didn't file one, I just argued against gnome-software to be a permanant service
<seb128> it's the service handling firmware updates
<seb128> superm1 is maintaining it, best to talk to him when he's online
<pitti> filed bug 1592678
<ubot5> bug 1592678 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software starts very early in the session, slowing down boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592678
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> I should get a bootchart on my box just to have a look
<seb128> mvo, hey
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> mvo, attente was looking for somebody to sponsor his snap xdg-open package, I think you already did the code review, do you think you could sponsor the package as well?
<mvo> seb128: sure
<seb128> mvo, bug #1580740 has the package, but let me do a pre-NEW type of review first, no point uploading if there are things to fix to let it in ;-)
<ubot5> bug 1580740 in Snappy "[SRU] Cannot open a browser link from a snap that provides a link" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1580740
<mvo> seb128: ok, I prepare the upload now (testbuilding in a clean env etc)
<mvo> seb128, attente: uploaded to yakkety
<seb128> mvo, thanks!
<mvo> yw
<seb128> yeah, looks fine for new
<seb128> mvo, is snappy going to use it already today if installed?
<seb128> or does it need integration in snapd of some way?
<seb128> ah, attente wrote what is needed on the bug
<seb128> the xdg-open script on the core image
<mvo> seb128: a new os snap is needed, if you do "sudo snap refresh --channel=beta ubuntu-core" it should work
<seb128> you might it's already in the os snap I just need to refresh today?
<seb128> or I need to refresh once it's in there but that's not the case yet?
<mvo> seb128: its already in the os snap in the beta channel but not yet in stable yet
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> hello
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> wie gehts?
<pitti> heey Laney, good morning
<Laney> hi seb128 and pitti
<Laney> i'm depressed by the weather and the news
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> need some emergency kittens
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> what's in the news?
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> brexit?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> I'm going! though weather is unfriendly here as well
<willcooke> The old people are going ruin it for us
<seb128> and we have workers in the building fixing the roof which is noisy
<seb128> I wonder if I'm going to relocate to some outside location to work
 * seb128 sends some tea and kittens to Laney
<Laney> meow
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> thanks for a start up info pitti
<willcooke> and the bug
<pitti> hey willcooke
<willcooke> looks like something we should take more of a look at
<willcooke> The fwupdate bit especially, since it's also causing issues with usb mice
<pitti> willcooke: we identified some low-hanging fruit here, and that seems to be one
<pitti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bootspeed
<seb128> pitti, do you have a reference chart up somewhere?
<pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/bootchart-xenial-qemu.svg
<pitti> I thought I added it to the bug
<sarnold> you did :)
<seb128> pitti, sorry, I didn't read the bug, just the title on irc
<sarnold> (I was curious, since apparmor is often blamed for slow boots, I just wanted to see how much it affected your current situation... I was quite happy with what I saw :)
<pitti> there's still dozens of "little papercuts"
<seb128> Laney, did you want to sponsor the gnome-software SRU for attente or should I try to have a look to that today?
<pitti> but before we address lots of little optimizations we need some better infra, and 16.10 is not the time for that
<sarnold> definitely the fwupd and gnome-software blobs look like huge papercuts :)
<pitti> and these two are also new regressions in x
<pitti> and total overkill from an engineering POV
<Laney> seb128: I didn't get asked to, did you?
<Laney> is there a package?
<seb128> Laney, he has updated bug #1590508 several times this week
<ubot5> bug 1590508 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "SRU more minor fixes to GNOME Software" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590508
<Laney> ok
<Laney> how do you know which one of those is final?
<Laney> I mean I wouldn't have known at #6 that #7 was coming, or #8 or #9 - is there going to be a #10?
<Laney> saying that I'm happy to sponsor it if only I get asked
<Laney> :)
<seb128> let's wait for attente to get online and sort it out
<seb128> any of those versions was good to upload afaik
<Laney> okay
<seb128> it's just that attente is on the overcautious side and never clearly claim "let's upload that one"
<seb128> and he got pinged a few times for more fixes
<Laney> attente: I'll upload what is there now if you give me the nod
<seb128> so he included those
<Laney> at some point we need to cut over to the next upload
<Laney> and get what is stacked pushed out
<seb128> right
<dpm> Sweet5hark1, I've had LO's toolbar looking too dark to actually use it for a while, do you know if there is any workaround for that? It looks like this atm -> http://i.imgur.com/ZzEoTre.png
<andyrock> monring guys
<Sweet5hark1> dpm: install libreoffice-style-human or -sifr and select that in tools->options->libreoffice->view instead of breeze?
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<willcooke> andyrock, which country are you in?
<dpm> that did it, thanks Sweet5hark1!
<Sweet5hark1> dpm: yw!
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, hey
<ricotz> Sweet5hark1, could you do a 5.1.4~rc2 ppa upload?
<Sweet5hark1> ricotz: yes, will try to get that still today.
<ricotz> great
<andyrock> willcooke: uk :D
<andyrock> willcooke: I'm in london right now :D
<andyrock> watching Marco cleaning dishes
<seb128> hey andyrock!
<seb128> you guys had fun?
<seb128> I saw some pictures of a row of italians waiting for pasta to be served ;-)
<andyrock> hey seb128
<andyrock> yeah quadrispro cooked for us :D
<Laney> the italians are invading!
<ogra_> better brexit quickly then !
<Laney> bahaha
<Trevinho> seb128: ahah, yeah... Pasta all'Amatriciana... So, tomato, and looooots of lardons :-D
<flexiondotorg> attente, I hear you worked on adding Snap suuport to gnome-software.
<flexiondotorg> attente, Is there an API/library others can use to add Snap support to other software "centers".
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, snapd has a lovely REST API
<Trevinho> Laney: we're here for a a campain... To prevent the UK to do the mistake of leaving our "beloved" EU... (or maybe we're giving a reason to?)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, looking it out now...
<flexiondotorg> I lead Ubuntu MATE. We have a little Software Boutique application and are very keen to add Snap support.
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Thank you :-)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/docs/rest.md
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Thank you!
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, nw, please let us know if we can help.
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Will do.
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Is the implementation for gnome-software in gnome-software?
<flexiondotorg> Or another package?
<willcooke> it's in gnome-software and a plugin
<willcooke> lemme see
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, sorry, got lost down a rabbit hole of cgit
<seb128> willcooke, flexiondotorg, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/rancell/snaps&id=82b15e9a34dc1cbce7da24e0771a9c7a259ff15d
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/rancell/snaps&id=82b15e9a34dc1cbce7da24e0771a9c7a259ff15d
<willcooke> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<seb128> lol
<seb128> sorry
<willcooke> that's amazing :)
<flexiondotorg> Hah!
<seb128> Trevinho, u-s-d landed as you probably noticed from the merge emails
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, thanks
<seb128> time for some SRUs
<seb128> unsure if we should do one or several rounds
<Trevinho> seb128: well, I can verify some issues, so we can have things quickly in
<Trevinho> laney too I guess
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, seb128 Our Trello is updated. Thank you :-)
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, very exciting stuff :)  shout if you need anything
<flexiondotorg> Will do. Just information gathering right now.
<seb128> Trevinho, yeah, it's just that the more we include the higher the chance of an issue and the need of a respin
<seb128> Trevinho, I would probably let the screensaver/proxy changes out for a first SRU
<seb128> Trevinho, do you want to have a look to the SRU or should I?
<Trevinho> seb128: if you want proceed without silo you can do that I guess, or, if silo is needed I can do that
<seb128> unsure about silo, I did the previously without one because it was easier
<seb128> oh and because bzr push lp:unity-settings-daemon/16.04 was failing and I couldn't be bother debugging why that doesn't work
<attente> Laney: hiya, i'm not going to add more changes to the sru, so that debdiff in comment #9 should be uploaded
<Laney> hi attente
<Laney> do you have a tarball handy?
<attente> Laney: i'll push it to the ppa
<seb128> hey attente, how are you?
<attente> seb128: i'm good, how about you? just catching up on the backlog
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> sorry for mentioning your nick a few times
<seb128> I should use Laney's underscores technic!
<attente> no worries :)
 * attente adds a highlight for attent_e
<seb128> lol
<attente> seb128: so the xdg-open thing is in y now?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but m_vo said only the beta channel has the os snap with the needed changes
<attente> ok
<flocculant> lots of desperate hope to not ping people going on here :)
<attente> Laney: https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software-stable/+files/gnome-software_3.20.1+git20160614.1.edcffc1-ubuntu-xenial.orig.tar.xz
<Laney> merci
<Laney> gimme a bit
<mhall119> hey guys, I'd like to see Software support a snap:// kind of URL, so I can get the design team to make us up some "Get the Snap" kind of button upstreams can put on their website, like they have for Android and iOS, where should I file that wishlist bug?
<ogra_> in launchpad
<ogra_> :P
<willcooke> mhall119, me & seb128 were talking about this exact thing this morning :)
<seb128> not exactly
<seb128> but related
<willcooke> mhall119, please drop a comment here:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software
<willcooke> comment/bug
<seb128> mhall119, willcooke, the distro|format-neutral/recommended url scheme is https://www.freedesktop.org/software/appstream/docs/sect-AppStream-Services-UrlHandler.html
<mhall119> seb128: that expects the appstream name though doesn't it?
<desrt> hello, hackers!
<mhall119> I can do appstream://org.gnome.Cheese or something like that and it works
<mhall119> but I can't do appstream://krita and get the snap
<seb128> right
<seb128> unsure if the appstream thing can work for snap
<seb128> it's a backend thing, but maybe it only makes sense for applications with a .desktop
<seb128> Laney or attente should know better
<Laney> no
<Laney> i don't
<willcooke> seb128, do you know if we could stop trying to build  krb5 on ppc64el ?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krb5/+bug/1592841
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1592841 in krb5 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS on ppc64el, blocks updates of all packages depending on krb5, for example CUPS" [Critical,New]
<Laney> no way
<Laney> look at reverse-depends src:krb5
 * willcooke looks
<willcooke> Laney, any ideas who might be able to try the suggested "-O2"?
<willcooke> tkamppeter, ^
<Laney> willcooke: tkamppeter could
<Laney> You can turn on ppc64el for PPAs.
<seb128> willcooke, it's likely a 5 liners in debian/rules and locusofbourg pointed tkamppeter to a similar diff done to another package and told him how to test in a ppa
<seb128> see #ubuntu-release
<willcooke> ah, another conversation is happening
<willcooke> ta
<Laney> you could probably try to fix that warning directly too
<tkamppeter> seb128, willcooke, I have seen the changes on cowdancer, I can apply the same changes on krb5 and attach a debdiff to the bug.
<seb128> please do then
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<Laney> tkamppeter: test it in a PPA
<tkamppeter> seb128, willcooke, would this help?
<seb128> you can also test in a ppa
<Laney> then you will know
<seb128> yes, but please test as well
<seb128> just enable the arch in your ppa
<seb128> and upload there
<tkamppeter> Laney, how to activate ppc64el in my PPA?
<willcooke> tkamppeter, click "Change details" on the PPA screen
<willcooke> then there is a tick box
<tkamppeter> willcooke, thanks.
<willcooke> np
<Trevinho> seb128: for your pleasure https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity-settings-daemon/kbd-toggle-ret-value-fix/+merge/297479
<Trevinho> seb128: i'd setup a landing with the queue signal patch too
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, fyi, tested here, it does crashed actually when kbd backlight was turned off
<seb128> k
<seb128> Trevinho, why did you remove the GError definition? error is still used no?
<Trevinho> seb128: no, is a different function... and gcc didn't build it
<Trevinho> seb128: also upstream got rid of those
<Trevinho> seb128: https://github.com/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/blob/master/plugins/power/gsd-power-manager.c#L262
<seb128> Trevinho, again you mixed unrelated cleanups with actual changes, which confused me :p
<seb128> the first chunk has nothing to do with the fix
<seb128> it's just remove unused variables
<Trevinho> seb128: eh, I could have done two branches... but it was just 2 lines ...
<seb128> right, it's fine for this time
<seb128> and it's removals
<seb128> so it doesn't mess up much with blame
<xnox> happyaron, heya
<happyaron> xnox: hey
<Trevinho> seb128: they're in two different commits though
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> seb128: so annotate will see them
<seb128> right
<seb128> Trevinho, approved
<Trevinho> thanks
<Trevinho> seb128: I've approved the other too, if robert has something against it, he can still speak up later
<Trevinho> but to me is sane
<seb128> yeah
<Laney> i broke eeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything
<Laney> firefox, gnome-terminal, my laptop
<seb128> what did you do?
<seb128> time for some exercice here
<seb128> I'm probably going to at least read backlog when I'm back
 * davmor2 calls the exorcist and sends him to Laney 
<seb128> but have a good evening for those who call is a day
<Laney> nn!
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<tkamppeter> Laney, willcooke, seb128, tried the cowdancer method but did not work: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265534248/buildlog_ubuntu-yakkety-ppc64el.krb5_1.14.2+dfsg-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<tkamppeter> Laney, willcooke, seb128: Probably too old deb package build method, did not yet find out yet from where the -O3 is coming here.
<Laney> Your patch didn't work
<tkamppeter> Laney, this is the problem. the build method seems not to support the variables which control the edit of CFLAGS.
<tkamppeter> Laney, can I somehow remove this package from my PPA to not need to waste a release number for each attempt?
<Laney> Not easily
<Laney> tkamppeter: I think you need to pass the DEB_ variables to the $(shell ... dpkg-buildflags)
<Laney> $(shell ... DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_STRIP="${DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_STRIP}" DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND="${DEB_CFLAGS_MAINT_APPEND}" dpkg-buildflags --export=configure ...)
<Laney> or something like that
<Laney> you know, in this case it's probably easier to fix the function to sidestep the warning in the first place
<Laney> really gone now
<Laney> o/
<robert_ancell> desrt, are you working on gsettings/snap stuff?
<desrt> it got pushed when i started working on relocation
<desrt> but ya
<desrt> i understand that the interim solution involves just letting everything read the user's dconf database for the time being
<desrt> robert_ancell: at the hackfest right now... will be able to talk more next week
<robert_ancell> desrt, ok
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-16
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning, do you have time today to look at sponsoring bug 1588913 or bug 1588938 ?
<ubot5> bug 1588913 in gnome-documents (Ubuntu Xenial) "SRU: New upstream release (3.18.3)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588913
<ubot5> bug 1588938 in gnome-taquin (Ubuntu) "[UIFE] Replace gnome-taquin 3.18 CC-BY-SA 2.0 images" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1588938
<robert_ancell> jbicha, LGTM
<robert_ancell> jbicha, uploaded
<jbicha> robert_ancell: thanks! I think people have been pretty busy lately because the sponsoring queue had been filling up
<robert_ancell> jbicha, always :) But always willing to respond to a direct request
<hikiko> hi
<TheMuso> Hey hikiko.
<hikiko> Hi TheMuso
<hikiko> How are you ?
<TheMuso> hikiko: Not too bad thanks. Yourself?
<hikiko> I'm fine, thanks
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<hikiko> hi seb128 pitti
<qengho_> Hi.
<hikiko> hi qengho_
<hikiko> 02:27 am?
<seb128> hey pitti hikiko qengho
<qengho> I'm out-of-phase a bit. :)
<seb128> pitti, still enjoying Greece?
<hikiko> are you in greece pitti ?
<hikiko> where?
<pitti> yes, kernel/foundations/security sprint in Athens
<pitti> I'm enjoying the sun during the morning run and on the roof terrace in the evening
<hikiko> oh, I thought you came for holidays...
<pitti> otherwise, haven't seen much yet
<pitti> but I have the Saturday for some tourism
<hikiko> :D
<Laney>  ahoy
<Laney> I was like "yay it's friday"
<Laney> but then the inconvenient truth came along
<didrocks> #fail :)
<Laney> and slapped me upside the head
<seb128> hey Laney!
 * Laney holds didrocks 
<Laney> we're going to be okay
<Laney> hi seb128!
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> good!
<Laney> So Wet
<seb128> weather turned good yesterday evening, had fun at tennis it was quite sunny from 7pm to 8:30pm
<seb128> too much sun at some point, couldn't see the ball well, but I'm not going to complain!
<Laney> haha
<Laney> lucky
<seb128> it's still ok this morning but they forecast rain again from this afternoon/evening until sunday :-/
<Laney> there was some flooding down the road from here yesterday
<seb128> urg
<Laney> https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13475027_10154318709373750_1714004059012618914_o.jpg
<sarnold> wow :/
<Laney> and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUAaLheUI-I&feature=youtu.be
<Laney> that's the way I go to get to the climbing centre
<Laney> good job yesterday was a day off :-)
<Laney> looks like someone fixed tkamppeter's problem for him https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265683650/krb5_1.14.2+dfsg-1_1.14.2+dfsg-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<seb128> thanks Steve!
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 - further to the email I just sent, I've put a meeting in the calendar for tomorrow on spec. Let me know if it doesnt work
<seb128> willcooke, I was just going to reply, I can make it work, I usually meet people for lunch from 12 to 13 but I can skip tomorrow
<willcooke> seb128, we can probably get it finished by 12 if that helps?
<willcooke> I have a thing at my kids school until 11 (your time) - so we could start at say 11:15 for 30 mins?
<seb128> wfm
<seb128> I can be a bit late to lunch
<seb128> I mean if we go over the half an hour
<seb128> it's not a strong commitement
<seb128> but yeah, starting a bit earlier is nicer
<seb128> deal for 9:15utc?
<Laney> k, what evssssssssssssssssssss, i'm easy
<hikiko> seb128, ping :) I have another ppa problem... when I upload my packages to my ppa unity fails to build for amd64 and compiz fails for both i386 and amd64 and I don't understand the problem from the buildlog... would you like to get a look when you have a moment?
<seb128> hikiko, sorry, what ppa/can you share the logs url?
<hikiko> https://launchpad.net/~hikiko/+archive/ubuntu/lowgfx?field.series_filter=xenial
<hikiko> the ppa
<hikiko> and the logs:
<hikiko> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265701977/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.unity_7.5.0+16.10.20160606.1-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz unity on amd64
<hikiko> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265713158/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.compiz_1%3A0.9.12.2+16.10.20160606.2-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz compiz on amd64
<hikiko> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265713412/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-i386.compiz_1%3A0.9.12.2+16.10.20160606.2-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz compiz on i386
<hikiko> it's that ppa I am trying to create...
<hikiko> also here are the steps I followed:
<hikiko> https://ufuntu.wordpress.com/2016/06/10/creating-an-ubuntu-desktop-ppa/
<Trevinho> morning
<seb128> hikiko, seems like bugs in the package for compiz
<seb128> and in tests (maybe flacky/needs retries?) for unity
<seb128> Trevinho might know better/be able to help you
<seb128> Trevinho, hey!
<hikiko> hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi hikiko
<hikiko> Trevinho,
<Trevinho> seb128, hikiko: there should a branch from muktupavels who fixed some tests
<Trevinho> it has not merged though since it wasn't running in some archs
<hikiko> I might disable all the tests for that ppa then
<hikiko> since it's not official
<seb128> Sweet5hark, if you don't touch anything, just go to prime,strip there and then "snapcraft prime" you should get a new snap without having to rebuild
<Sweet5hark> seb128: backing up /snap right now.
<seb128> Sweet5hark, k, let me know how that goes/if it works
<Sweet5hark> seb128: still running, but looking good: usr/local/lib/libreoffice/program did shrink to 1/4th pre-squashing.
<seb128> woot
<Trevinho> hikiko: yeah, just use cmake flags properly in that case
<muktupavels> Trevinho: I did not fix tests...
<muktupavels> do you have time to review my merge proposals?
<hikiko> i did fix a test
<hikiko> but that was merged
<Sweet5hark> seb128, willcooke: -rw-r--r-- 1 bjoern bjoern  287M Jun 16 11:50 libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, is that the final size?
<willcooke> like, it's done building
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: yes, final size.
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, O_o
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, nicely done sir!
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: note for a real release we still need l10n. So with that we will end up at ~500MB without symbols.
<willcooke> Sweet5hark, ack
 * Sweet5hark currently writes blogpost.
<dpm_> Sweet5hark, good work!
<dpm_> Sweet5hark, quick question: do translations work, though?
<dpm_> I know they don't work in other snaps, but the LO one might be different
<dpm_> so if they do not work, it might be worth leaving them out until we get snaps to support them
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: https://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2016/06/16/a-third-of-a-libreoffice-snap/ <- blogpost with details, will show up on libreoffice.org/planet.documentfoundation.org soon.
<dpm_> nice work Sweet5hark
<willcooke> thank you Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> dpm_: in general translations should work. Currently the build with l10n loops in snapcraft -- weird, dunno why. So no l10n included for now.
<Sweet5hark> dpm_: expect 100 l10ns to add around 200MBs still.
<Sweet5hark> dpm_: or half to double that.
<dpm_> gotcha, thanks!
<seb128> Sweet5hark, well done
<mhall119> willcooke: ping, I've dug a bit more into the LO snap and there is something strange going on
<willcooke> mhall119, the new one or the old one?
<tsdgeos> is there anyone we can tell at google about google-talkplugin_5.41.3.0-1_amd64.deb checksum being broken?
<mhall119> willcooke: libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta1-hotfix1_amd64.snap
<mhall119> is there a newer one?
<willcooke> mhall119, https://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/libreoffice-5-2-0-beta2-as-a-snap-package/
<mhall119> downloading now
<willcooke> tsdgeos, I don't know anyone.  Maybe qengho?
<mhall119> well that's much smaller, isn'tit
<willcooke> :)
<mhall119> debug symbols, is that why it had 600MB+ .so files?
<willcooke> mhall119, ya
<mhall119> willcooke: it looks like the snap include LibreOffice SDK, is that working?
<mhall119> willcooke: the snap still contains ./home/bjoern/ which looks to have some recursion going on, not sure if there's more fat to trim off there or just cleanup
<willcooke> mhall119 -> Sweet5hark
<mhall119> it looks to contain a copy of usr/ in there
<mhall119> some of it anyway
<mhall119> du -sh ./home
<mhall119> 297M	./home
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: the sdk is included, not tested (its a pain to test it)
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: urgh, ./home. yeah. thats https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapcraft/+bug/1592873 for you
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1592873 in snapcraft (Ubuntu) "snapcraft packs full paths to the build location" [Undecided,New]
<Sweet5hark> I manually deleted the added paths each time so far, but not after rerunning snapcraft after stripping.
<Sweet5hark> urgh.
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: note though, while it is ugly, its likely not using extra space as the files there are duplicates of the ones in ./usr/local and squashfs should thus compress them down to ~nothing.
<mhall119> Sweet5hark: ack
<mhall119> Sweet5hark: were you able to fix the problem with the window menu not appearing on other distros?
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: not aware of that.
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: And if I fixed it, I would still wait 6 hours for the rebuild.
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: speaking of menus though, it sounds like it might be a gmenumodel/dbus/unity thing? IOW we build with support for exporting menus via dbus in snapcraft, but other distros are ... different.
<mhall119> Sweet5hark: but it should only do that on Unity, not other DEs, even on Ubuntu
<mhall119> it appears to be trying to do it regardless of DE (at least from the comments I've seen about it)
<Sweet5hark> mhall119: well, reminder we are running a _beta_ using an _experimental_ gtk3 backend right now. speaking of which, Im surprised that the dbus-menus work in gtk3 at all.
<mhall119> Sweet5hark: I understand that, which is why I'm asking about bugs rather than comlaining :)
<Laney> attente: "This example is not really production quality" ????
<seb128> Laney, what example?
<attente> Laney: that's the description that comes back from snapd, ev already knows about it
<Laney> I know
<Laney> are you sure you want to upload with this as a featured app?
<Laney> is it going to be fixed soon?
<attente> let's wait to see what he says
<attente> snapd also isn't giving us the correct icons for those featured snaps either
<Laney> can if you want
<Laney> but it doesn't look very great
<Laney> indeed
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> it's down to on much we are asked to get that change in
<seb128> willcooke, ^ do you know?
<willcooke> I don't, that requirement passed me by.  I'll find out though
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> attente: this gs_plugin_add_popular looks shady
<Laney> in snappy
<Laney> what is it doing?
<attente> manually adding those curated snaps, but since there are fewer than 7, populating the last three or so with other apps from the other backends
<attente> otherwise the randomization will most likely not show those few curated snaps
<attente> at some point for the next sru we have to read the list from an xml file online
<Laney> you're supposed to just add to the list and let g-s choose which ones to show
<Laney> is it some kind of requirement to promote the snaps?
<Laney> most of them come from actual popular apps according to ubuntu reviews
<seb128> Laney, yes, I think there was requirement to promote snaps
<Laney> this is weird though
<seb128> weird like?
<Laney> in order to promote 4 snaps we remove every single popular app from the archive
<Laney> other than 3 random ones
<seb128> we for sure don't remove anything from the archive
<Laney> no
<Laney> parse it differently
<seb128> rigtht, just making it clear for people lurking here
<seb128> I didn't look at the actual patch
<seb128> I would expect the 3 other picks to still be in the most popular ones
<Laney> currently the picks are things that ubuntu reviews has at â¥ 4 stars
<seb128> but I guess that's not what the code does?
<Laney> the remaining 3 will still be popular by that definition
<seb128> k
<Laney> but it will always only be 3 things
<seb128> well, that's what we have been asked to do
<Laney> and the other 4 will *always* be the same 4 snaps
<seb128> also it's temporary until there are most snaps a xml we can consume
<seb128> then things are going to not always be the same
<seb128> but yeah, it's basically what I was pinging willcooke about
<seb128> knowing how much that change is a strong requirement
<Laney> I think it's a buggy requirement
<seb128> e.g if we can delay it to next round
<seb128> right, I agree with that
<Laney> even if the XML exists
<Laney> promoting something just because it is delivered in a particular way is weird
<Laney> same with the big banner featured app too
<Laney> the code deletes all the other ones so it's always going to be this shout thing
<seb128> how is the big banner decided?
<seb128> I'm a bit less sure than you on the "it's wrong to promote new things"
<Laney> you can put them in the list
<Laney> so they get the same chance as everything else
<seb128> depends on how much you want to promote them :p
<Laney> It's not that interesting to users how it gets delivered
<Laney> the exception being if you have the same thing delivered in two different ways
<Laney> then you might want to show the one you think is best
<Laney> I have to go to a vote remain debate(!!!!)
 * Laney stayed late yesterday to go early
<Laney> but I pushed gnome-software to bzr, so if you think it's good
<Laney> then upload
<Laney> the description and icons can be fixed on the server as far as I know so if those are the only problems then they don't require any more code changes
<Laney> I would upload to y and then add a backport entry for the SRU with ~ubuntu16.04.1 or something
<Laney> the package will be the same
<seb128> Laney, enjoy the debate
<seb128> I read in the news that some remain campain woman got shoot
<seb128> and that they suspended the campain?
<Laney> https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/vote-in-another-europe-is-possible-nottingham-event-tickets-25924580117
<Laney> yeah i heard something about that
<Laney> grim
<Laney> byeee
<seb128> Laney, let's see what willcooke says about the snaps recommends, but I agree on principle that it's wrong to promote them if they don't bring value, but you could argue than if confined the snap env brings value (more secure)
<seb128> Laney, bye
<jbicha> snaps are kinda experimental right now to be promoting them heavily to LTS users
<seb128> jbicha, what makes you think they are experimental?
<seb128> snapd was released as part of the LTS on the iso
<seb128> with a proper stable version
<jbicha> they are under heavry development, look at the changelog for snapd alone since 16.04 was final
<seb128> right
<seb128> doesn't mean they are experimental or unstable
<seb128> they just lack features
<jbicha> ...compared to the .debs also available in the Software app
<seb128> right, nobody is removing the debs
<seb128> but yeah I agree it's a bit early to promote them to LTS users
<seb128> well at least for desktop apps
<seb128> but they picked only things that work well
<seb128> so why not
<jbicha> ok, I haven't looked at snaps much to have any more specific issues to report, I was just piggybacking off Laney's skepticism
<jbicha> and obviously snaps will continue improving
<jbicha> thanks
<seb128> thank you for the feedback :-)
<jbicha> I guess it does say "Editor's Picks"
<jbicha> here's a specific issue: the Cassandra database is featured but I don't believe it has a .desktop file
<jbicha> and thus isn't something the Software app is designed to show
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> the snap backend should be able to display the info page for any snap
<seb128> that just looks poor atm
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/262901733/krita_ubuntu_software.png
<jbicha> the Software app intentionally excludes things that aren't "apps"
<seb128> backends decide what are apps though
<seb128> like the snap backend could flag any snap as one?
<jbicha> same thing for Jenkins
<jbicha> I mean you've got bugs like bug 1553211 which are closed more or less as WONTFIX where users are complaining that
<ubot5> bug 1553211 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "gnome-software does not treat recommends and suggests as plugins to applications | impossible to install "technical" packages (plugins, kernels...) | Ubuntu desktop no longer provide graphical method to install non-GUI software components" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1553211
<jbicha> Software only allows installing or uninstalling a portion of Ubuntu's packages
<jbicha> so it's inconsistent that snaps aren't being filtered the same way
<seb128> right
<jbicha> I'll just file a bug then :)
<seb128> thanks
<jbicha> oh wow, I'm still on snapd 2.0.2 since newer versions are stuck in y-proposed
<seb128> attente, Laney, let's roll the snap picks/featured changes out of that SRU while it's still be discussed, ok?
<seb128> willcooke, ^
<attente> seb128: ok
<attente> willcooke: should we also roll back the snap name/summary change for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1555569
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1555569 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[snaps] Show human-readable names for store apps" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> *I* think so
<willcooke> I think "Jenkins" vs "Jenkins automation ser.." is better
<willcooke> and I think we should pause that until the store guys have their fix in
<attente> for one-word snaps like jenkins, sure, but for something like the calculator snap, you'd get "ubuntu-calculator-app"
<attente> still would rather roll that back though
<willcooke> +1
<seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
<willcooke> cheers seb128
<davidcalle> willcooke: so, do you take work items here instead? :)
<willcooke> damn it davidcalle, I told you not to call me at work
<davidcalle> lol
<seb128> those frenchies, no manners
<willcooke> I thought you'd finished for the day seb128!?!
<willcooke> wooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<willcooke> my snap works!
<seb128> yeah, just hanging around watching the news with the laptop, waiting for dinner to be ready
<seb128> which it just is
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> enjo
<willcooke> y
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> well done for the snap
<seb128> bbl
<willcooke> l8r
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-17
<RAOF> Dear GNOME Shell: Focus stealing prevention is really useful. Maybe you've heard of it? >:(
<qengho> RAOF: I'm surprised there's no plugin that uses a webcam to watch your eyeballs' attention.
<RAOF> qengho: Haven't looked :)
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> any idea what this might mean: Failed to create file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/gschemas.compiled.O3TBJY': Permission denied
<hikiko> I try to build the packages of a ppa
<hikiko> and compiz fails with:
<hikiko> cp: will not overwrite just-created 'debian/tmp/usr/share/gnome-control-center/keybindings/50-compiz-navigation.xml' with 'obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk/gnome/50-compiz-navigation.xml'
<hikiko> cp: will not overwrite just-created 'debian/tmp/usr/share/gnome-control-center/keybindings/50-compiz-windows.xml' with 'obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/gtk/gnome/50-compiz-windows.xml'
<hikiko> debian/rules:29: recipe for target 'override_dh_install' failed
<hikiko> make[1]: *** [override_dh_install] Error 123
<hikiko> sorry :)
<hikiko> I should use a pastebin for the last 2 lines
<hikiko> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/265713158/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.compiz_1%3A0.9.12.2+16.10.20160606.2-0ubuntu2_BUILDING.txt.gz (buildlog)
<sarnold> feels like there may be two files in the source tree named 50-compiz-navigation.xml
<sarnold> hmm, it doesn't seem to be mentioned enough times in the log for that to be it. :/
<hikiko> I have no idea what might be the problem :s
<Laney> morning
<Laney> today it really is friday
 * Laney checks
<hikiko> happy Friday Laney !! :D
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday!
<seb128> hey hikiko
<Laney> how's it going?
<hikiko> hi seb128
<seb128> Laney, good! a bit tired though, also having the feeling I didn't do much this week, being hitting my head against snap for most of the week, though at least I've the feeling I learnt things and I'm getting somewhere
<seb128> but didn't do much distro work, SRU, sponsoring, etc
<Laney> seems like that's the priority
<seb128> yeah, it's going to be good, just other things pile up a bit on my todo and I like to clear those out regularly
<seb128> but at the same time the SRU team seems to slack on reviews atm
<seb128> maybe because most of them are in Greece enjoying the sun :-)
<seb128> Laney, how is it going with you? still head down in gtk theming?
<seb128> how was the brexit debate yesterday?
<Laney> it was cancelled
<Laney> because an MP got killed so all of the campaigning was off
<Laney> today too
<Laney> I didn't find out until after I got there
<Laney> I got SO wet riding there
<Laney> was making puddles on the floor from my dripping clothes
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> well good thing you didn't have to sit down wet for some hours
<seb128> yeah, the campain off is the thing I read just before you left
<seb128> I didn't know the meeting you were going to was an official thing though
<seb128> I though it was a local debate
<Laney> sort of
<Laney> but they decided to as well
<Laney> guess that was decided late on
<seb128> k
<seb128> do they know if the shooting had to do with her politic position on the brexit?
<Laney> taking a little break from full time theme while waiting for Trevinh_o to come with some fixes ;-)
<Laney> although I have to sponsor somethign from w_i_l_l_c_o_o_k_e
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> haha
<Laney> apparently the guy shouted something like 'put britain first' so maybe
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> don't make the boss wait!
<seb128> though he's not around yet it seems, so can still slack a bit :p
<Laney> going to upload g-s first
<Laney> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/log/src/plugins/gs-plugin-snappy.c?h=wip/ubuntu-xenial <- revert the top three there
<Laney> poor other will
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> that branch looks wrong
<seb128> oh, ignore that
<seb128> you filtered on one source
<seb128> I was going to say that it misses the other fixes that are supposed to be in the SRU :p
<Laney> the other ones are good
<seb128> but yeah, +1 on those 3 to be reverted
<Laney> presumably
<Laney> :P
<seb128> let's see
<seb128> but they should
<seb128> we trust a_ttente right?
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> ok refresh, they are gone
<Laney> soooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 * Laney makes a tarball
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> hikiko: your compiz package is weird by the way
<Laney> -rw-rw-r-- 1 laney laney 218M Jun 17 09:10 ../compiz_0.9.12.2+16.10.20160606.2-0ubuntu2.tar.gz
<willcooke> moin
<Laney> did you delete the orig.tar.gz? because it got converted into a native package
<Laney> and it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuge
<Laney> hi willcooke
<hikiko> :s
<hikiko> I didn't have any orig.tar.gz I think
<Laney> are you working from a bzr branch?
<hikiko> yes
<Laney> use: bzr bd -S to make a package
<seb128> hey willcooke
<hikiko> Laney, should I delete this package from the ppa
<hikiko> and add a new one?
<hikiko> or it will be overwritten?
<Laney> just upload a new one with a higher version number
<Laney> like change 20160606.2 to 20160617.1
<Laney> run "dch"
<Laney> then edit the version string at the top
<Laney> then if you look at compiz..._source.changes it should reference three files - .orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, .dsc
<hikiko> so, 1st: dch, then bzr bd -S, then dput?
 * seb128 got an evince snap working, including opening backends from the correct locations and loading translations
<seb128> but quite some manual hacking
<seb128> trying to get more things working without manual poking in the builddir
<Trevinho> Morning...
<Laney> and *then* get compiz from xenial (apt-get source compiz) and debdiff <old.dsc> <new.dsc> and you can see if it only contains the right changes
<seb128> hey Trevinho!
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Laney> what's up
<hikiko> done :D I'll wait for the build, Laney, thanks a lot!!
<Trevinho> Hi Laney
<willcooke> Taleo is the biggest pile of....
<seb128> Trevinho, how is London? did you sleep at the office?
<Laney> tally ho
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, we can put back the meeting to 9:30utc if you prefer, the people I was planning to lunch with can't today
<willcooke> seb128, Laney wfm - I'm just catching up on the 1st round filter, so a few more mins would be good
<Laney> don't mind
<seb128> k, let's do :30 then
<Laney> gives me more time to put clothes on
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 doesn't want to picture that
<willcooke> Laney, we dont mind
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> it's good to work for such a liberal company
<hikiko> mmm Laney :) 1 more question... I dput the new packages and they are "successfully uploaded" but I don't see any changes on launchpad
<hikiko> is this normal?
<Laney> did you get an email?
<Laney> and was the package signed?
<Laney> normally it only takes 2 minutes
<hikiko> it seems to be signed:
<hikiko> Good signature on /data/canonical/staging/unity_7.5.0+16.10.20160606.1-0ubuntu4.dsc.
<hikiko> but I received no email
<Laney> and the _source.changes?
<Laney> and what command did you use to upload it?
<hikiko> dput ppa:hikiko/lowgfx unity_....changes
<hikiko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/17427420/ that's the log
<hikiko> and that's the changes:
<hikiko> http://paste.ubuntu.com/17427427/
<hikiko> and I did the same for compiz before unity
<Laney> not sure why you wouldn't have had a reject mail
<Laney> is it the ~ in ppa:~?
<Laney> I always do ppa:laney/ppa
<Laney> but I'm not sure if the other form is an error
<hikiko> oh
<hikiko> I got one buut in the canonical email :s although I use the gmail for lp
<hikiko> Rejected:
<hikiko> Launchpad failed to process the upload path '~~hikiko/lowgfx':
<hikiko> Could not find person or team named '~hikiko'.
<hikiko> \m/
 * Laney is the best guesser
<hikiko> true :)
<willcooke> yay, spam from Gitter.
<seb128> same here, I hate when new service you use do that
<seb128> it makes me want to unsubscribe
<seb128> "that's how you thank me by using your service, by spamming me, great"
<seb128> by->for
<willcooke> and Gitter is awful
<willcooke> so slow
<Laney> k, gnome-software is uploaded
<Laney> looks like someone is reviewing now too
<Laney> good times
<seb128> Laney, an already approved
<seb128> good timing
<willcooke> seb128, Laney oki, I'm done with the CV sift.  So ready when you guys are
<seb128> now wfm
<seb128> my snap just finished building
<seb128> but that I start debugging now or after the meeting is the same
<seb128> might be better if I start after so I don't stop in the middle of something
<Laney> not for me
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> boooo
<willcooke> Laney is still naked
<willcooke> ping when you're ready Laney
<Laney> just need to get tea and have a piss
<Laney> 5 minutes
<willcooke> LOLOL
<Laney> also TMI
<willcooke> Tea for me too
<Laney> but you demanded it
<willcooke> \o/
<seb128> hum, coffee
<Laney> right
<Laney> just need to install lastpass /o\
<Laney> something broke firefox yesterday and I lost my extensions
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> i'm there homies
<willcooke> omw
<willcooke> seb128, ^
<seb128> willcooke, oh, I was waiting for the url but I guess it's in the invite, coming!
<willcooke> Just use Google calendar man
<Trevinho> seb128: ahaha, no no sleeping there... :-D, but almost... As we left our staff in there and so we hacked for a while during the night
<Trevinho> seb128: we're back to italy though.... Minisprint continues in Florence
<seb128> oh ok, enjoy!
<andyrock> hey guys
<willcooke> morning andyrock
<seb128> hey andyrock
<flocculant> pitti: I thought those systemd-resolved bugs were dupes - but the only ones I could find were fix released, and I still see it pretty much every day here  *shrug*
<willcooke> Interesting read:  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/4ofu01/how_do_employees_and_other_canonical_insiders/
<willcooke> via popey
 * seb128 reads
<qengho_> Yeah, I saw that on the g+ or something.
<Laney> Everything that's used gets flamed
<Laney> Try being GTK this week :-)
 * Laney shouldn't be allowed sweets
<pitti> flocculant: yeah, I just committed the real fix to the packaging git
<pitti> flocculant: they are more or less all different expressions of the same root cause
<pitti> flocculant: and I don't see much point on spending much time on those
<flocculant> pitti: I did think so - but could only find fixed bugs so reported them - I assume I can un-private the dupes I did report ?
<flocculant> thanks though :)
<pitti> flocculant: disabling dnssec indeed made the crashes much less likely, but it was still a race condition
<pitti> flocculant: un-private> sure
<willcooke> qengho, you're up and about early :)
<flocculant> pitti: okey doke - thanks for replying :)
<qengho> willcooke: Depends on reference frame. I'm in Taiwan where it's 18:40 now.
<willcooke> oh yeah!  Nice!
<willcooke> qengho, how's the humidity?
<qengho> willcooke: Awful, which is to say, "same as Florida's".
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> working holiday?
<qengho> I came within 100m of Canonical's office today.
<qengho> Laney: Normal working, just in a different place for ~6 weeks.
<Laney> Nice
<Laney> Go do some hardware enablement
<Laney> they love it in there
<seb128> lunch, bbl
<qengho> AFAICT, my previous plan for losing 5kg this summer is doomed.
 * Laney considers heading down t'allotment at lunch
<Laney> rain forecast for the evening
<Laney> those courgettes need to go out gosh darn it
<mhall119> willcooke: pong
<willcooke> hey mhall119
 * willcooke wonders what he was going to speak to mhall119 about
<mhall119> willcooke: hey, so the thing on G+ is about the KDE desktop app store
<mhall119> basically they need the same kind of work that went into Gnome Software to make it find and install snaps
<willcooke> ah
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> oki, so flexiondotorg is doing the same in the MATE store too, so they should all chat
<willcooke> mhall119, I can point you to the REST API for the store, one sec...
<flexiondotorg> Yep, happy to collaborate.
<mhall119> for the store or for snapd? I thought Software was speaking to snapd
<flexiondotorg> I'll be implementing in Python.
<willcooke> doh, snapd
<willcooke> it is the wisdom flexiondotorg
<willcooke> :)
 * mhall119 doesn't know what Discover uses, but it's probably C++
<flexiondotorg> So I'm planning to add snap support to Ubuntu MATE Software Boutique.
<mhall119> which is why I didn't volunteer to help them myself
<willcooke> a REST interface should be simple either way
<willcooke> mhall119, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/rest/
<willcooke> mhall119, and then of course, they are welcome to ask questions here
<willcooke> or we can set up a HO, whatever
<willcooke> and take a look at the g-s bits as well, link coming up...
<willcooke> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/rancell/snaps&id=82b15e9a34dc1cbce7da24e0771a9c7a259ff15d
<mhall119> thanks willcooke
<willcooke> mhall119, nw
<Trevinho> finishing a branch just before of the Italy match... nothing better
 * Trevinho in EU 2016 mode.
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> Trevinho, good luck ;-)
<didrocks>  /!\ football reference alert
<flexiondotorg> I can talk to the snapd socket :-)
<flexiondotorg> https://github.com/msabramo/requests-unixsocket
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, congrats \o/
<Trevinho> Bah... Until we win, everything's fine... :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, nice game/goal?
<Trevinho> seb128: goal nice, game boring... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FP3WDRA2pQ
<Trevinho> (higher quality https://streamable.com/8ai5)
<seb128> Trevinho, nice one indeed
 * Laney tries landing the same branch in two places by creating two MPs
<Laney> wonder if this works
<desrt> hey peeps
 * desrt starts to decompress a bit
<Laney> unxz desrt.xz
<Laney> is it over?
<desrt> more or less
<desrt> there were a few people left this morning
<desrt> it was a pretty good week.  i made the front page of /r/linux twice :p
<Laney> building bridges
<desrt> we may want to discuss strategy in terms of how we deal with this in ubuntu...
<desrt> ultimately, i think it's gonna be pretty OK
<Laney> did smcv moderate my comment yet?
<desrt> dunno?
<Laney> noooooooooooope
<desrt> having smcv at the table was really useful to the discussion
<desrt> distros++
<desrt> he has an interesting viewpoint.. in his ideal world, only the stable x.6.x releases ever end up in a debian stable release.... meaning that from now on, they will ship whatever gnome version that falls on
<desrt> (testing/unstable will follow the party, of course)
<desrt> it probably makes sense to do something like this for LTSes too
<Laney> it only really works if the cadences are aligned
<desrt> ish...
<Laney> if .6 comes out 1 year before the LTS / stable freeze then you need to not package the .0 and .2
<desrt> in ubuntu we probably want a cycle or two to let the release firm up, as usual
<Laney> so LTS - 2 LTS - 1 and LTS all have the same gnoem release
<desrt> and then break again in LTS+1
<Laney> and testing and unstable for a year
<Laney> plus freeze time
<Laney> so 18 months
<desrt> that doesn't make sense
<desrt> the release will go in _before_ the freeze time, according to what you say
<Laney> it's whatever is current when the freeze happens
<desrt> so the release is getting older concurrently with the freeze
<desrt> (which is sort of the usual case anyway)
<Laney> the usual case is whatever GNOME release was stable at freeze time
<Laney> now it's the latest .6 release at freeze time
<Laney> which, in the worst case, could be pretty old already
<desrt> right
<desrt> ah.  so you're actually concerned about the case where the cadence lines up _too_ well
<desrt> ie: new release comes out before the new debian release, but during the freeze
<Laney> for debian you should think about the freeze date, not the release date
<Laney> 'release when ready' and that
<desrt> sure
<Laney> sabdfl made this offer to align schedules a few years ago
<desrt> i'm just saying that the freeze thing has always meant that debian is releasing 6+ months old software
<Laney> maybe people want to do this now :)
<desrt> ya... i already tried to push back the stable date to 3.28
<desrt> those present wanted 3..24
<desrt> we landed on the theoretical 3.26 as a compromise
<desrt> 3.28 would let it land 6 months before our LTS... which is perfect
<desrt> wait... i'm off by one... 22 is this fall, 24 is spring 2017, 26 is fall 2017... so 3.26 actually is perfect for us
<desrt> we end up releasing 6-months-old GNOME in the LTS... which is pretty much what we aim for these days anyway
<desrt> anyway... we'll see how the plan actually ends up working out
<Laney> 3.20 -> 16.10, 3.22 -> 17.04, 3.24 -> 17.10, 3.26 -> 18.04 LTS
<Laney> that would be the normal cycle anyway
<desrt> if we keep the 6 months delay thing up
<desrt> so at least as far as we go, we're in sync
<Laney> 5th February 2017
<Laney> that's debian
<desrt> *shrug*
<desrt> we discussed the possibility of debian syncing up with us... since we're the ones who have the release schedule set in stone for the past decade
<desrt> (and the other distros tend to drift, at least a bit)
<desrt> but ultimately it seems like it doesn't make a lot of sense since debian isn't about fixed release dates..
<desrt> the only thing that you could do is have fixed freeze dates (irrespective of the actual time of the last release) so that even if a release is later than expected, it won't drift the schedule over time
<Laney> they've been kind-of trying to do that lately
<desrt> in any case, we have another 18 months of status quo... and maybe even better than status quo.... people are already starting to think about this new approach in really positive ways
<desrt> there was a lot of "well, we don't have to break that now... we can wait for 4.0..." being thrown around
<desrt> anyway... i managed to convince everyone that we should have relocatable libraries (at least) as a matter of course -- no hardcoding of paths ever
<desrt> as a general policy for gnome platform libraries
<desrt> but the scope of the problem also increased in size... the new API sort of has to do 'all the things' now... and on windows and mac, too
<desrt> so... yay...
<desrt> meanwhile, it seems that will had a lot of success with the menu positioning stuff.... i got a picture of him making diagrams at a whiteboard... this guy is the next mpt
<desrt> http://imgur.com/aAmihMe
<attente> D:
<desrt> that pic is solid
<desrt> like, profile pic material
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, I've got a primitive class working. I can query some aspects or snapd and install/remove snaps :-)
<flexiondotorg> Good point to finish for a Friday I think.
<seb128> desrt, is there a list somewhere of relocation-issues in GNOME? or a bug to discuss those?
<desrt> Probably it will be more like a good gnome goal
<desrt> I will open a bug about the patch soon
<seb128> great
<seb128> on that note calling it a week
<seb128> have a good w.e desktopers!
<Laney> byeee
<Laney> happy weekend!
<willcooke> congrats flexiondotorg
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-06-19
<tjaalton> how can I prevent shotwell from starting up when attaching media with photos on it? it's not on the default apps list
<tjaalton> dpkg --purge shotwell worked
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-12
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<jibel> morning
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> any chance to get vala accepted https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/0.36.3-1~git1
<oSoMoN> hey ricotz
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<jamesh> hi seb128
<seb128> hey jamesh, how are you?
<duflu> Hi seb128, ricotz, oSoMoN, jamesh, didrocks, jibel
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, duflu, jamesh
<duflu> Hello world
<jamesh> good.  My brother was visiting for the weekend (he's on a six month contract working in Cairns)
<jamesh> so of course he was complaining about how cold it is here ...
<didrocks> hey duflu, jamesh
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> morning willcooke
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey oSoMoN willcooke Laney
<seb128> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> hi Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> did everybody had a good w.e?
 * willcooke -> sunburnt 
<duflu> Morning willcooke, Laney
<seb128> willcooke, played golf?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, plus some gardening
<willcooke> it was really windy so I didnt realise the sun was so strong
<duflu> OK, silly question: What Intel architecture does ILK stand for? It must be in the _past_ despite sounding like one that's in the future....
<willcooke> duflu, at a guess I'd say the LK bit of ILK is probably "lake"
<duflu> willcooke: Yes but it must be in the past. The only I-Lake appears to be in the future :)
<willcooke> duflu, Ironlake, 2009?
<duflu> willcooke: Winner! Probably... thanks
<willcooke> duflu, not sure that's a CPU.. Wikipedia says "Gfx controller and memory controller hub"
<duflu> willcooke: Yes, still correct. That's why I could not find it. This doc mixes and matches all the codewords
<willcooke> ah :)
<Laney> hey seb128 oSoMoN didrocks duflu willcooke
<Laney> what's new?
<duflu> <insert witty comment about British politics here>
 * Laney nods gravely
<oSoMoN> I had an excellent week-end, went camping with friends, got loads of sun, beer, BBQ and fun with kids, lost track of time until late in the evening yesterday
<oSoMoN> how about you seb128?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, awesome!
<willcooke> Yesterday I made this work:  https://www.banggood.com/433Mhz-Decoding-Transceiver-USB-Transfer-Frequency-Module-For-Smart-Home-p-1123784.html
<duflu> willcooke: Actually that makes sense. Not long after ILK they started being properly integrated GPUs, so referred to by the CPU arch
<willcooke> duflu, ahh, right - so that was the last of the "discrete" gfx cards?
<duflu> willcooke: Yes, will discretely separate on the motherboard
<duflu> -will +well,
<willcooke> seb128, Laney  -  I've got a call with AWS tomorrow which looks like it will overlap with the start of the meeting.  Would one of you be able to drive this week please?
<andyrock> good morning my fellow desktoppers
<andyrock> _)
<oSoMoN> good morning andyrock
<willcooke> morning andyrock
<Laney> willcooke: ok
<Laney> hi andyrock
<Laney> you good?
<andyrock> elaction night in italy (for majors but still)
<andyrock> so a bit tired :D
<andyrock> you?
<Laney> i'm good!
<Laney> got lots of beans and rhubarb and some gooseberries off the allotment yesterday ;-)
<andyrock> Laney: time for a cake
<Laney> yeah need to do something more interesting than fool
<andyrock>  I mean it's time for you to prepare a rhubarb cake :D
<Laney> it is time
<Laney> RIGHT NOW
<Laney> BYE!
<didrocks> anything you want but rhubarb please :)
<Trevinho> Hey people...
<Trevinho> Back in the European countryside... :-|
<Laney> you don't know what you're missing
<Laney> hey Trevinho
<Laney> you don't fool me with that face
<Laney> I saw your pictures
<Laney> you love being back
<Laney> and rightly so!
<Laney> â¥
<didrocks> Laney: well, rhubarb's bitterness first ;)
<andyrock> Trevinho moves with the summer
<andyrock> now that in Italy is summer is back again
<willcooke> 1 stick of rhubarb to 1 kg of sugar :)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> something like that
<didrocks> just to hide the taste :p
<Trevinho> Laney: Ahahahahah... Well just because I can get good pizza again :-D
<Trevinho> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/A0FfyquJ/20170611_212326.jpg
<Trevinho> andyrock: exactly... ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, I can do as well for the meeting
<seb128> Laney, as you prefer
<Trevinho> seb128: hi seb128
<seb128> hey andyrock Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, had a good trip? happy to be back on the old continent?
<andyrock> willcooke: seb128 btw this is the ppa https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/+archive/ubuntu/software-properties-lp
<andyrock> it should be stable enough
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> I moved the switch in updates panel
<willcooke> nice andyrock, thanks
<andyrock> the password is user1@ubuntu.com - password1 - otp 1111
<willcooke> andyrock, we have the livepatch meeting this week too - so can you arrange a demo?
<Trevinho> seb128: very good trip (China airways has an amazing airbus a350-900, never had a such silent flight [really I didn't either noticed we were taking off].. With legs support)
<andyrock> there are no notifications yet but I guess yes
<andyrock> this should work
<seb128> andyrock, ah, nice
<Trevinho> seb128: and... Staying in Rome for 2 days was great.... I love that city. Not sure how long I'll stick to my place tho :-)
<andyrock> I've to remove a couple of hacks, but from the user point of view should be the same
<seb128> Trevinho, :-)
<Laney> seb128: you can do the next one ;-)
<Laney> did you get back ok & have a good weekend?
<seb128> Laney, thanks, let's do a rotation, I do it next time there is one to lead :-)
<seb128> yeah, trip back was fine
<seb128> 1 hour from office to airport gate
<jibel> duflu, I don't think screen not blanking during video playback is a duplicate of bug 1692762
<ubot5> bug 1692762 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[screensaver] Screen never blanks in Gnome Shell when using LightDM" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692762
<seb128> I was back home unpa
<jibel> duflu, in my case I am using gdm
<Laney> covfefe?
<seb128> I was back home unpacked/showered by 19:30
<Laney> nice
<duflu> jibel: Ah, yes there was another bug for GDM.....
<duflu> Somewhere
<seb128> w.e was nice, friends over on saturday, walk in the wood to avoid the heat yesterday, then french open conclusion on tv
<seb128> how was your w.e?
<duflu> jibel: Yeah sorry, it's opposite. I'll update your bug with additional thoughts
<jibel> bug 1647213 maybe ?
<ubot5> bug 1647213 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[screensaver] Automatic screen lock never locks or blanks the screen using Gnome Shell and GDM" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1647213
<jibel> but screen blanking works fine, just video playback is a problem
<Laney> seb128: got some new house plants, went to a new pasta restaurant, allotment, climbing
<Laney> good weekend!
<oSoMoN> jibel, duflu:Â Iâll look into bug #1697373 , it could very well be that chrom[e|ium] is not using the appropriate d-bus iface to request inhibiting screen blanking
<ubot5> bug 1697373 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Do not dim/lock the screen when a video is playing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697373
<jibel> oSoMoN, okay, let me know if you need more info
<duflu> oSoMoN, yes. Just commented on it. We should keep the topic in the bug...
<jamesh> oSoMoN: here's the relevant code: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/master/device/power_save_blocker/power_save_blocker_x11.cc
<jamesh> it's using the org.freedesktop.Screensaver and org.freedesktop.PowerManagement interfaces
<oSoMoN> jamesh, ack, IÂ was thinking that maybe PowerSaveBlocker::Delegate::SelectAPI() incorrectly detects the DE and selects the wrong API, but need to look further into it to confirm
<jamesh> oSoMoN: except that function seems to treat Unity and GNOME the same
<duflu> Seems that DPMSEnabled() depends on an XDisplay. So Xwayland would need to be OK with providing DPMS
<duflu> else NO_API
<duflu> Yes, 'xset dpms ...' commands fail on Wayland
<duflu> Even with Xwayland
<duflu> and 'xset q' says "Display is not capable of DPMS"
<jamesh> xdpyinfo would give you the list of supported extensions
<duflu> jamesh: Yes, but the extension being present is not the same as the Xwayland display being capable :)
<duflu> Xwayland loads the DPMS extension and says "no"
<jamesh> ah.
<duflu> oSoMoN: Upstream Xorg/Xwayland is different, but Ubuntu seems to use dpmsstubs.c for Xwayland...
<duflu> Bool
<duflu> DPMSSupported(void)
<duflu> {
<duflu>     return FALSE;
<duflu> }
<Laney> ah man, forgot to bring my headphones to the library
<duflu> Sorry, I'll keep it down
<duflu> Or make dinner
<Laney> ok, NOW I'm on Shell
<Laney> keep looking top right for the time :(
<chrisccoulson> I keep looking on the wrong monitor for the time
<Laney> not seen it on multiple monitors yet
<jibel> with the extension to move it to the top right it's okay. I miss the world clock in the indicator though.
<chrisccoulson> Laney, it's not great on multiple monitors. Particularly when you're working on the secondary screen, with application menus on the other monitor
<seb128> jibel, https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/697/panel-world-clock/ might work?
<ricotz> gnome-clocks can add several locations/timezones to date/time dropdown
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi
<jibel> ricotz, how? I tried but nothing appears in the indicator
<ricotz> jibel, I simply added some locations in gnome-clocks and then they appear in g-s
<chrisccoulson> hi ricotz
<ricotz> same goes for gnome-weather
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, did you notice the ubufox proposals?
<chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah
<chrisccoulson> I'm getting rid of that though
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, I see
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, also *please* answer even if it is days later
<jibel> adding locations to gnome-clocks doesn't add anything and gnome-clocks does not even start on a fresh installation
<ricotz> jibel, oh, sounds like dependency missing
<jibel> seb128, and the extension fails to run
<seb128> :-/
<seb128> do you get any error trying to start gnome-clocks?
<jibel> seb128, no
<seb128> just hanging?
<jibel> seb128, it returns immediately and nothing printed on the console
<seb128> is there any corresponding process already started?
<jibel> seb128, hold on, it was already running
<seb128> :-)
<jibel> killed and restart and it works
<seb128> including adding locations to the shell?
<jibel> seb128, I can add locations to the clocks but are the location supposed to be shown somewhere else?
<jibel> seb128, I mean in the panel for instance
<seb128> in the calendar applet from whell
<seb128> shell
<jibel> nope
<seb128> worth reporting an upstream bug then I guess
<seb128> jibel, it's supposed to be like in https://bug745111.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=297802
<seb128> well that bug shows a RTL issue but the the items are at the bottom so it gives an idea how it should be
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, have you tried running the latest chromium on x86 too? I didn't try that last week with the other bug, but I just tried it now. It crashes on startup on every release except zesty for me
<jibel> seb128, right, that's what I expect too but there is nothing below the calendar
<seb128> jibel, try maybe to desactivate the extension that move the clock just in case?
<seb128> and did you try to restart the session/shellÂ§?
<jibel> i'll reboot again after my meeting
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, no I hadnât :/ thanks for reporting
<jbicha> seb128: perhaps users do prefer window buttons on the right?
<jbicha> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/12/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-extensions-poll-results/
<seb128> jbicha, hey
<seb128> jbicha, you never give up do you :-)
<jbicha> well you said you thought our users preferred left?
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> it's close
<kenvandine> imo with apps using the gtkheaderbar, it can be a little awkward with the controls on the left, for some apps
<seb128> jbicha, I said they might, also I'm not convinced that readers for that website are an accurate representation of the Ubuntu userbase but we don't really have other data or easy ways to get those
<kenvandine> yeah, survey's are really tough
<kenvandine> the users that are mostly likely to complete them are the ones that want change
<seb128> jbicha, in any case I don't strongly care either way, I just don't like the way people hate on what Ubuntu has been doing and are so eager to kill/undo things we have been doing just for the sake of doing like others are doing (which isn't a sign of better)
<kenvandine> seb128, my only argument for moving them is it can feel weird for some apps that utilize the headerbar
<kenvandine> like gnome-software puts a status icon on the top left while it's busy
<seb128> yeah
<kenvandine> and to stop it, it looks like the maximise
<kenvandine> similar
<kenvandine> apps like these assume the controls on the right
<seb128> it's more standard with other OSes on the right and left creates some bugs
<seb128> it's just a change for our users
<kenvandine> yeah, it'll be hard for me to get used to moving them to the right myself :)
<kenvandine> but personally i think we'd be better off moving them again
<seb128> tricky balance to annoy your existing users to please potential new ones that you might end up not getting
<kenvandine> yeah
<mitya57> That apps' assumption is wrong in any case. No matter what is default, buttons on left should be a supported option and not cause confusion.
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> true
<cyphermox> seb128: I think caribou is missing a subscription by ~desktop-packages for its MIR> bug 1685867
<ubot5> bug 1685867 in caribou (Ubuntu) "[MIR] caribou" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685867
<kenvandine> the only app i recall seeing that seemed awkward with the buttons on the left was gnome-software
<kenvandine> but there might be others
<cyphermox> seb128: but also, I think there should be some work done to merge ~desktop-bugs and ~desktop-packages, since both are meant to just track which packages you want to get the bugs for -- anything in main for the desktop team should pretty obviously be tracked.
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, we use ~desktop-bugs afaik
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> wth
<seb128> I don't find the team in the list
<seb128> add myself as admin
<seb128> refresh
<seb128> and now the team is subscribed
<cyphermox> well, according to all doc in the MIR team and according to the "master list" it's ~desktop-packages
<cyphermox> ta
<seb128> well it's not me (I think?)
<Beret> given a USB key pre-loaded with an Ubuntu daily image - is there a way to determine which daily it is by chance?
<Beret> any metadata anywhere that would give that away?
<seb128> cyphermox, where is the page that lists the official team?
<cyphermox> Beret: .disk/info
<kenvandine> we were confused by this a few weeks ago
<Beret> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> seb128: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/m-r-package-team-mapping.html
<cyphermox> that comes from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/view/head:/package-subscribers#L107
<cyphermox> seb128: also, sorry, I only pick on you because you're the last admin reachable on that list, I do realise this is old stuff, hence why the need to merge both lists
<cyphermox> cf. https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+members#active
<seb128> cyphermox, it's not anyone was still looking to those report pages :p
<cyphermox> seb128: well, the team list report is not all that interesting
<cyphermox> the point is just that anything in main should have some team responsible for, and getting the bug mail
<seb128> cyphermox, anyway we have been using  ~desktop-bugs mostly for those in recent cycles I think
<seb128> at least I did use that one and got often pinged to do the subscription
<seb128> dunno who just did the caribou one
<seb128> kenvandine?
<kenvandine> nope
<kenvandine> at least not today
<kenvandine> i think i did some a few weeks ago
<seb128> dunno who did then
<kenvandine> magic
<Laney> I did caribou on 11 May
<jbicha> gnome-tweak-tool's headerbar is a bit odd with 3 window buttons on the left (it increases the size of the left sidebar)
<cyphermox> could be on my request
<kenvandine> it was on our MIR list, so probably
<jbicha> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/783557
<ubot5> Gnome bug 783557 in shell "3.26 redesign: left window buttons aren't on the left" [Normal,New]
<cyphermox> I must have failed to follow through asking for the other team's subscription
<Laney> should we do a script to move everything over from desktop-bugs to desktop-packages?
<seb128> Laney, k, dunno why Steve commented on the bug saying it's not done
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/caribou/+subscriptions lists it
<cyphermox> Laney: the other way around, I think
<seb128> Laney, desktop-bugs is the right one no?
<cyphermox> since you already use desktop-bugs, and it has more admins, etc.
<Laney> I don't know what right means
<Laney> I thought you were saying that right means the ones the reports look at
<seb128> I think desktop-bugs is the one we have been historically using
<Laney> not that it really matters
<Laney> well it's the one I'm admin of, so the only one I could have used :p
<jbicha> maybe desktop-bugs is not used by component-mismatches?
<seb128> but I don't care strongly either way if somebody wants to reverse that
<seb128> jbicha, component-mismatches uses teams for what?
<jbicha> or packages?
<seb128> for what?
<jbicha> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html
<seb128> I didn't even know component-mismatches cares about bugs subscribers
<cyphermox> jbicha: that's just code, trivial to change.
<jbicha> sure
<seb128> I like how people reply to questions with urls
<seb128> not sure if I should feel offended by the suggestion I don't know the url of component mismatch ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: it shows some packages as unsubscribed if it doesn't find one of the right teams subscribed
<seb128> jbicha, I don't think those categories matter much
<seb128> but yeah we should probably make it look at the right set
<jbicha> we could just ask slangasek what it was exactly that he saw; I was just guessing
<seb128> on e.u.c the package set is "ubuntu-desktop"
<seb128> so we do have mismatches between different tools and reports
<seb128> and it's confusing
<seb128> but that "team mapping" things is poorly defined
<seb128> or documented
<cyphermox> there's a point to having something separate from the ~ubuntu-desktop and whatever are MIRed packages.
<Laney> the packageset is different from the 'owner'
<cyphermox> indeed.
<seb128> what's the difference?
<Laney> upload rights
<Laney> vs canonical's support commitment
<seb128> which one define the group of packages we care about?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, Cr. in Artful - I can't move the window with touch. Works elsewhere. Any ideas?
<seb128> because imho we want to look at the same set of packages for e.u.c and component mismatch
<seb128> no?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> main / universe is a support thing
<Laney> so it probably makes sense for component mismatches
<Laney> and I think errors.ubuntu.com can look at team subscribers already
<seb128> indeed
<Laney> maybe you do want both there
<seb128> I don't know, I'm a bit confused now
<Laney> like: what are the biggest problems in the packages my team supports commercially? and: what are the biggest problems I can directly fix?
<seb128> I think we want one way to list the packages we "care about"
<seb128> and know about issues in that list
<Laney> you can answer both with the options available on errors currently
<seb128> errors, component mismatch, release targetted bugs, etc
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, then we need to decide on what we standardize between desktop-packages and desktop-bugs
<seb128> does anyone know the history of why we got a second one
<seb128> and how they have been used?
<seb128> to me the one has always been ~desktop-bugs
<seb128> pedro is the owner of the other one
<seb128> and it has only 4 members
<seb128> I think he might have created it to make qa reports for desktop
<Laney> no clue
<cyphermox> the story that was relayed to me was that there was a disagreement in what the packages should be that desktop looks at.
<seb128> that's probably true :-)
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+related-packages is empty
<seb128> I guess that page is not what tells you what packages you are subscribed to?
<cyphermox> nope
<seb128> ah
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-packages/+packagebugs
<cyphermox> in that sense, having a split between what you use to get mail vs. what you care about makes "some" sense, but nothing that couldn't be achieved by mail filters either
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> anyway ~desktop-packages has things that are not owned by use
<cyphermox> how so?
<cyphermox> because all that is in there is what the desktop team is supposed to be responsible for supporting
<seb128> us
<seb128> no, ~desktop-bugs is
<cyphermox> not according to the MIR team doc.
<seb128> it's a wiki
<seb128> whoever edited that got it wrong
<seb128> we are not maintaining e.g quilt
<seb128> or texinfo
<cyphermox> or whomever forgot to update things after changing the team?
<seb128> could be
<seb128> or iputils
<cyphermox> could also be that you inherited quilt/texinfo at some point because it was pulled in by something else the desktop needed.
<cyphermox> because at this point, we're looking at hysterical data, and no amount of trying to reason it will bear much fruit
<cyphermox> (ie. I don't know, I wasn't there)
<seb128> nice try but you are not dumping those of us no :p)
<cyphermox> and also, I understand it might not make sense to you, but that's the current state of things, if things need to be shuffled around, then that would be up to managers to get to agree about it.
<Laney> there's a bit of a fiction about it all isn't there
<Laney> even if it says quilt, nobody really thinks that the desktop team maintains that
<cyphermox> Laney: there's a lot of things which just always happen to be grey area too
<cyphermox> Laney: in theory, it means the desktop team would be responsible for it, if it's in that list
<seb128> in any case those list have a stack of old deprecated-moved-out-of-main things or even deleted from current ubuntu
<seb128> like xchat-gnome
<cyphermox> ie. on rls-aa-(incoming|tracking) it would show "desktop-packages", and some people might skip over that section
<Laney> it's a lot like copyright review
<seb128> we should probably clean whatever list we decide we want to use
<Laney> you get things in shape for the start
<Laney> and then nobody cares
<seb128> yeah
<cyphermox> Laney: of course
<seb128> until somebody comes back to you saying that the some bug is sorted under your section on some reports
<Laney> but I'm peanut gallery so I should stop commenting :-)
<cyphermox> seb128: well, then we're also all kind of intelligent enough to get to a consensus.
<cyphermox> ie. quilt may be listed there, but someone would either fix it regarless of the team, or more likely, correctly deem it as not being release critical?
<seb128> you could use that argument for any package and argue that those lists are useless
<seb128> (which I mostly think they are)
<cyphermox> I don't think so. It helps to make sure it's easy for you to look at the bugs you care about in late release, for instance
<cyphermox> when looking at rls-aa
<seb128> (except that people sometime do come telling us that we need to fix something because it's sorted under our section)
<cyphermox> or when you work on component-mismatches, NBS,  etc.
<Laney> I wouldn't work on those things by owner
<Laney> would for actual bugs though, so maybe it has some value there
<seb128> ~desktop-packages is wrong in any case
<seb128> it lists things like amarok
<cyphermox> Laney: for some people it makes it easy to target just the things that have the biggest effect for their team.
<seb128> which we never owned/touched
<seb128> or akonadi
<seb128> please use ~desktop-bugs
<seb128> we can add things to it if you feel like it's missing components
<seb128> but it's the list we maintained
<cyphermox> it's not up to me to fix this, sorry
<seb128> who is it?
<seb128> can you forward to whatever is right?
<cyphermox> I'm just there to review the MIRs, and make sure teams subscribe to the packages they want MIRed.
<seb128> k, well we have been using ~desktop-bugs for that for years, check MIR records
<seb128> so please accept that one as valid
<cyphermox> I can submit an MP for the list itself, sure, but otherwise you should as a team conduct a review of both teams to clean things up
<seb128> and let the dual team things to be sorted out by whoever cares
<cyphermox> as far as I can tell, ~desktop-packages is what has been used for MIRs, and I've been asking about subscribing things for a few weeks now
<cyphermox> well, since i've been reviewing desktop MIRs
<seb128> weird
<seb128> I wonder who has been subscribing that team to MIRs
<seb128> since it requires an admin and pedro and I are the only ones
<seb128> and pedro is not around/active for years and I've not been doing it
<cyphermox> didrocks1: opinion on the team subscriber thing? since you do promotions and have been in the desktop team before?
<cyphermox> seb128: I don't know, but I know it's a mess. There's historical data that seem to show either team have been used in the past
<cyphermox> ie. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/1189180
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1189180 in Cheese "[MIR] cheese" [Critical,Fix released]
<didrocks1> (backlogging)
<cyphermox> what one shows desktop-packages.
<cyphermox> s/what/that/
<cyphermox> I think 2013 was post-pedro?
<seb128> yes
<cyphermox> devhelp has both, but no MIR bug...
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1536870
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1536870 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-software" [Undecided,Fix released]
<seb128> "Ubuntu Desktop Bugs subscribed to gnome-software."
<seb128> but it has "desktop packages" as well
<cyphermox> yeah
<seb128> wonder how that team is ending up here
<didrocks1> I was never a fan of this bug reports subscribing
<didrocks1> I feel it's a little bit like a fallacy, nobody is actually watching when you have more than 100+ packages
<cyphermox> it does serve as a check that the team really does care about it when they agree to subscribe the team
<cyphermox> (and you can then use it to search for bugs you're subscribed to anyway)
<seb128> anyway, I don't think we are going to reach an agreement here
<seb128> and I don't think it really matters or anybody really care about what those assignment lists state
<seb128> so if somebody wants to consolidate those datas/make them less controversial they care start a discussion
<seb128> otherwise let's just move on and keep doing what we have been doing
<cyphermox> I don't have the time to consolidate this
<seb128> right, so let's move on
<cyphermox> right, so I'll just keep asking you for subscribing bugs?
<seb128> to ~desktop-bugs?
<seb128> :-)
<cyphermox> to ~desktop-packages, since that's the team used for the reports.
<seb128> anyway, I'm just remove myself from ~desktop-packages
<Laney> hahaha
<seb128> that leave us without admin
<seb128> at which point you need some launchpad admin to unblock you
<seb128> asked Steve on #ubuntu-devel
<Laney> just did a systemd offline update on my debian vm
<Laney> still boots ...
<seb128> is that default/activated in Debian now?
<seb128> or did you opt in for testing?
<seb128> but cool :-)
<Laney> it's what gnome-software offers
<Laney> the UI was ugly as hell though
<Laney> Installing foo [============] scrolling down the screen
<seb128> due to lack of Debian theme for that mode?
<Laney> I guess so, but I'm not sure how themable it is atm
<Laney> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/SystemUpdates/ that thing
<jbicha> seb128: yes, it's default in Debian because Debian's GS does PK and that's the only way PK updates in GS work right now; Debian GNOME still includes Synaptic
<kenvandine> sarnold, we're still waiting for the security review for gdm, is someone working on that?  bug 1686393
<ubot5> bug 1686393 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gdm3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686393
<sarnold> kenvandine: I hope to re-start it this afternoon
<kenvandine> sarnold, cool
<kenvandine> thx
<willcooke> seb128, Laney - thinking of adding a generic "Make Wayland work more good" card to Trello.  We need to spend some time looking in to it for nvidia etc.  Related:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781075
<ubot5> Gnome bug 781075 in general "GDM won't load Wayland session with latest Nvidia proprietary drivers, even though Wayland is now supported by Nvidia" [Normal,Resolved: notgnome]
<willcooke> s/thinking ofadding/I have added
<willcooke> it's in proposed for now, but let's discuss tomorrow in our meeting
<robert_ancell> willcooke, can you remember Gustavo's IRC nick?
<willcooke> robert_ancell, hi!  it's niemeyer
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-13
<RAOF> Hey, now that we're on the hook for GNOME Shell, could we please implement some sort of attempt at focus-stealing-prevention, rather than the current approach of âit's hard, let's go shoppingâ?
<duflu> RAOF: I know that's your pet peve. Mine is the lack of precision in libinput... Generally though we're keen to not do the development downstream so please feel free to remind upstream.
<jamesh> duflu: with that xwayland DPMS issue that came up last night, would there be any downside to xwayland claiming to support DPMS and then doing nothing?
<jamesh> the X11 extension provides no way for clients to query the state, after all
<duflu> jamesh: Yes, the downside is that diagnostic tools like xset would then report it's working and the screen would still blank when it shouldn't
<jamesh> but would you want legacy apps causing the screen to blank?
<duflu> jamesh, We implemented it in Xmir. Just need to find (or wait for) some sensible wayland API to implement it
<duflu> jamesh: Yes. Anything that can blank the screen in Unity7 right now isn't causing us pain
<duflu> jamesh: My analysis is still a little bit of a guess. Would be useful to debug and confirm still
<jamesh> duflu: I think you are correct, looking at that part of the chromium source
<jamesh> for Chromium in particular, it doesn't seem to do anything with the DPMS extension other than query whether the screen supports it
<jamesh> it then uses completely different means to prevent blanking
<jamesh> which is a little weird
<duflu> jamesh: Oh....
<duflu> jamesh: So it uses a screensaver API to block it?
<jamesh> duflu: for GNOME and Unity, it is talking to org.gnome.SessionManager on D-Bus
<jamesh> but it won't even attempt that if DPMSCapable() is false
<duflu> jamesh: Yeah that's weird. Sounds like a fix might go in Chromium. But not Xwayland
<jamesh> could probably verify with an LD_PRELOAD hack
<duflu> Because returning false when you don't support it is absolutely right
<robert_ancell> RAOF, that annoys me too...
<robert_ancell> (the focus thing)
<robert_ancell> jamesh, would you be interested on working on some gnome-software bugs?
<jamesh> robert_ancell: sure.  What needs looking at?
<robert_ancell> jamesh, basically what's in the Trello board with the gnome-software tag
<jamesh> okay
<robert_ancell> jamesh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1690280 might be a good one to start with
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1690280 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Classic confined snaps don't install" [High,In progress]
<robert_ancell> It needs a design to be worked out for warning the user appropriately of the risk of a classic snap
<robert_ancell> Then work with gnome-software upstream to make that work
<robert_ancell> And finally some backporting to older releases
<robert_ancell> But there's a patch in the bug report which does the actual installing
<robert_ancell> But let me know if anything else looks interesting. A lot of them have some work done but happy to handover
 * robert_ancell -> EOD
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, jibel, et seb128 ! comment allez-vous ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va pitti, et toi ?
<pitti> Ã§a va bien ! j'aime le temps d'Ã©tÃ© :)
<didrocks> oui, pareil ici, c'est agrÃ©able :)
<andyrock> morning!
<oSoMoN> willcooke, good morning. Just saw your question about chromium window in artful and touch, sorry I missed it yesterday
<oSoMoN> no idea what that could be though
<oSoMoN> does it have client-side decorations, or a regular title bar?
<duflu> Confusingly, when I was fixing my first light-themes bug I found gtk likes to use 'csd' to refer to the decorations that are actually server side decorations. The client side decorations where in the CSS that was /not/ called 'csd' :)
<Laney> moin
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> -where + were
<oSoMoN> good morning Laney, seb128
<seb128> and bbiab, I need to move, be back in 10min or so
<duflu> 'lo
<jibel> bonjour pitti! Ã§a va bien, moi aussi j'aime le temps estival :)
<jibel> (new word for you maybe 'estival') ;)
<willcooke> morning all
<pitti> jibel: c'est trÃ¨s proche de "festival" :-)
<willcooke> oSoMoN, nw!  Regular title bar.  Also I noticed Firefox is the same.  And it doesn't give the correct hints to the shell to show the OSK when needed.
<willcooke> oSoMoN, Shall I log some bugs?
<oSoMoN> willcooke, please do
<jibel> pitti, indeed. Un festival estival! ;)
<pitti> jibel: ð
<Laney> hey pitti
<pitti> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<seb128> back
<Laney> pitti: nicht schlecht, danke - gestern habe ich zu shell gewechselt (?????)
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> Laney: sehr gut!
<pitti> Laney: I tried to switch to Shell like three times, and switched back as it was wasting so much screen space compared to unity..
<pitti> seb128: sehr gut, danke! und dir und dem Mini-Seb?
<seb128> duflu, pittis, auch sehr gut, maar ein bisschen mÃ¼de
<duflu> uh, wie bitte?
<duflu> :)
<duflu> Oh, right
<pitti> mauvais sommeil?
<duflu> pitti, thanks for the quick turnaround
<duflu> and sorry my German is too rust
<duflu> rusty
<pitti> you're welcome
<koza> morning
<Laney> syncpackage: Error: The source package 'gilb2.0' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in experimental, experimental-security, experimental-updates or experimental-proposed
<Laney> that message made me WAT on two counts
<pitti> what's the other count?
<willcooke> oSoMoN, is this the right place for bugs?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium
<Laney> First one is that glib2.0 didn't exist when I knew it did :-)
<pitti> ah, I thought the first count was the typo
<oSoMoN> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser
<Laney> and the second one is the concept of experimental{-security,-updates,-proposed}
<Laney> yeah
<pitti> oh, indeed :)
<Laney> took me some seconds to see it
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<Laney> ubuntu-bug chromium-browser!
<Laney> oh that reminds me that u-d-t FTBFSed
<Laney> should probably fix that
<oSoMoN> right, ubuntu-bug is preferred
<Laney> launchpad doesn't mail for sync ftbfses and britney didn't tell me it was stuck in proposed either
<Laney> such bugs
<willcooke> urgh
<willcooke> Laney, "xdg-open: no method available for opening https://bugs.fooooooooo"
<willcooke> wait
<seb128> willcooke, what did you do this time!
<willcooke> humm.  I installed Chrome.  Then it asked if it could be the default, and I said yes
<willcooke> now restting firefox to be the default and trying again
<willcooke> nope
<willcooke> same problem
<seb128> artful?
<willcooke> ya
<seb128> willcooke, $  xdg-settings get default-web-browser
<seb128> ?
<seb128> $ xdg-settings get default-url-scheme-handler https
<Laney> thx seb128
<seb128> Laney, for?
<Laney> handling the query
<willcooke> Laney, google-chrome.desktop
<seb128> yw I guess? :-)
<willcooke> however, I told firefox to be the default
<willcooke> oh, it's because that's an old terminal
<willcooke> doing it in a new terminal shows firefox.desktop
<willcooke> seb128, ditto - shows firefox
<seb128> I guess xdg-utils is having an issue, let me see if I get that here
<seb128> willcooke, if you "xdg-open https://bug" you get the same error I guess?
<willcooke> seb128, so turns out the bug is:  open a terminal, install chrome, set chrome to be your default, do all this while leaving the terminal open.  Go back to that original terminal and xdg-open is "broken".  If you open a new terminal, everything works fine
<seb128> k, so xdg-utils is a bunch of shell script
<seb128> it probably isn't dynamic enough
<andyrock> i guess it depends on the way it sets the enviroment variables
<andyrock> iff it uses env variables to deal with this
<seb128> willcooke, so you started chrome from the same command line?
<seb128> in practice most users are probably going to install or start the browser from the UI
<willcooke> seb128, probably not - probably started it from the UI
<willcooke> I think it's just that that terminal session needed to reread some "stuff"
<willcooke> anyway, minor issue imo
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but how did you try to open the url?
<seb128> I would have expected that clicking on an http link in e.g tomboy to open the new handler
<seb128> or any other graphical component
<seb128> k, dropping offline for a bit
<seb128> going for lunch and trying to work for a new place after that
<seb128> bbl
<willcooke> laney, when you get a mo. can you try operating nautilus with touch?  I'm seeing very odd behaviour.  It's like it thinks I want to select some files with a mouse-drag, but it won't stop doing the drag, and then there are a load of artifacts left over (the outlines of the rubberband).  Curious if I'm just doing it wrong
<willcooke> operating = opening files and folders
<Laney> willcooke: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/nautilus.mp4
<Laney> it got messed up because of hidpi but you get the idea
<Laney> that's all touch
<willcooke> Laney, interesting, thanks.
<willcooke> man, hidpi looks nice
<Laney> are you on wayland?
<Laney> this is X
<Laney> and yeah, it's boss
<Laney> not boss for battery life but you can't have it all /o\
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> ah, perhaps this is a wayland thing then
<Laney> yeah just went to wayland, messed up there
<Laney> do we have a tag or something for wayland bugs?
 * Laney has the jibel white terminal outline too
<willcooke> no white terminal outline here, odd.
<Laney> lucky~~~~~
<willcooke> Laney, shall I log a bug against Nautilus for the oddness?
<willcooke> and just tag it "wayland" for now?
<Laney> willcooke: I guess start there, but it's probably going to end up being a gtk/mutter thing
<Laney> can reassign tho
<willcooke> ack, thx
<willcooke> Laney, next question, do you know of any screen recorders that work with Wayland?
<Laney> shell has something built in
<Laney> CAS-r I think
<Laney> that's it, not tried it on wayland though but I assume that it works there
<willcooke> seems to, thanks
<Laney> np
<willcooke> humm, not sure it's really a bug now.  Meh, I will log it anyway and we can ignore if needed
<willcooke> Laney, seems ubuntu-bug auto-adds the "wayland-session" tag, so shall we stick with that
<Laney> noisy https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wayland-session
<Laney> well
<Laney> maybe those should be triaged
<willcooke> yeah, it's not too bad, there are some that can probably be detagged right away
<willcooke> I'll take a quick look now
<chrisccoulson> does anybody use banshee these days?
<oSoMoN> haven't used it in years, should I give it another try?
<willcooke> Laney, some very minor triage done.  Only about 5 bugs
<oSoMoN> trying banshee now, how the heck do I quit the app? (and stop playback, while at it)
<oSoMoN> pause and close works, apparently
<oSoMoN> looks like closing the window only hides it while thereâs something playing back, and exits the app when nothing is playing back ?
<willcooke> I think RBox does something similar
<Laney> willcooke: thx
<Laney> do we want to try to /fix/ some of this stuff?
<willcooke> Well, we have a requirement from OEM to make sure touch works well on Shell, so some of the usibility issues, yes we should try and fix.  What I'm not sure about is do we want to start on them this cycle.  I don't think we'll get much time to do everything else, and we'll uncover a new one every day.
<willcooke> So I think if we say that making Shell work well with touch is an 18.04 goal, then we should have a good list of issues by the start of the next cycle
<Laney> I meant Wayland issues
<willcooke> The ones which directly impact Shell, perhaps - see above.  But, e.g. "Application foo doesn't work on Wayland.." then probably not
<Laney> Yes of course.
<didrocks> oSoMoN: that's exactly the behavior. I was requested in 2010 to implement this design (it's probably a distro-patch, I don't remember)
<willcooke> Laney, are you chairing the meeting today?  If so I'll forward you the updates from those who aren't here
<Laney> yes, thanks
<chrisccoulson> Is someone adding the whoopsie settings to the control centre?
 * didrocks would like we have a discussion about whoopsie again btw
<didrocks> (maybe not for 17.10, but 18.04)
<chrisccoulson> what sort of discussion?
<didrocks> like going back to the sane report-bug behavior: disabling once released
<didrocks> and opt-in in the installer
<Laney> chrisccoulson: don't think we thought about / assigned that yet
<chrisccoulson> Laney, awesome. I'm glad to be useful once in a while
<chrisccoulson> Now, why isn't it finished yet?
<chrisccoulson> :)
<Laney> I heard you were looking for work to do :)
<jbicha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=wayland
<jbicha> I've just been using the 'wayland' tag
<Laney> looks like that overlaps with wayland-session
<jbicha> except wayland-session is automatically added if someone happens to run GNOME on Wayland so the bugs may not be Wayland-specific at all
<seb128> if I retry "autopkgtest for python-dbusmock/0.16.7-1: amd64: Regression â»" on update_excuses, does it retry with the same version or with the current archive one?
<pitti> seb128: with the current one
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> it doesn't really have any other chance anyway, 0.16.7 is gone
 * seb128 retries those
<pitti> yes, 0.16.8 ought to fix stuff
<seb128> pitti, technically it's in the librarian
<seb128> or whatever the launchpad db is called
<pitti> yes, but we only use apt and our repositories (consciously)
<seb128> but yeah archive is easier
<seb128> good
<seb128> jbicha, hey, were you waiting for eds to be binNEWed to upload evolution?
<jbicha> seb128: yes
<seb128> jbicha, how did you notice it has been NEWed? I'm a bit curious :-)
<seb128> just from the -devel discussion
<seb128> (I don't think we notify uploaders about binNEW?)
<jbicha> I noticed because I happened to check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+queue?queue_state=0
<jbicha> I was a bit early uploading evolution as the new e-d-s binaries haven't even been published yet!
<seb128> yeah, I was going to say
<seb128> you could as well have uploaded it weeks ago and let depwait do its thing
<Laney> ooh my astrantia has been sent
<seb128> hum
<seb128> how do one tell update_excuses to consider new versions of tests?
<seb128> bluez still has "autopkgtest for python-dbusmock/0.16.7-1: amd64: Regression â»" but I retried it and it worked with 0.16.8-1
<seb128> but seems like the migration script is not considering the new version
<Laney> it will get it the next time proposed-migration runs
<seb128> great
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> it looked like there was an update since the retry which is why I asked, but maybe things were not uptodate yet for some reason, let's see on the next one
<seb128> k, moving places before the meeting
<seb128> bbiab
<Laney> oooooooooooooh
<Laney> #startmeeting Desktop team 2017-06-13
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 13 15:31:48 2017 UTC.  The chair is Laney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey hey
<andyrock> hey
<Laney> wait
<Laney> I need to find the log from last week to get the names
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<didrocks> :)
<oSoMoN> ð½/
<kenvandine> o/
 * Laney can't do 13-7
<heber> o/
<Laney> andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<Trevinho> o/
 * Trevinho forgot about the unmeeting... It was better when it was at midnight :-/
<jbicha> o/
<Laney> Trevinho: everyone forgets about it :|
<seb128> lol
<Laney> let's GO
<Laney> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: andyro
<andyrock> hey
<seb128> I didn't but was not around, had to stop for some errands before the real meeting
<andyrock> #1. Changed the design of canonical-livepatch + software-properties, as suggested by mpt
<andyrock> #2. Deployed u1 and livepatch-token mock services in canonicstack
<andyrock> #3. Created ppa with a demo
<andyrock> #4. Fix failing test in unity7 + published new unity7 with the fix in artful
<andyrock> #5. WIP: Removing some hacks in the canonical-livepatch gui (in particular communicate with sockets to enable/disable service and check the status)
<andyrock> # eow
<Laney> nice
<Laney> I would try that but I've got no LTS installs :P
<Laney> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: dgadom
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> unfortunately nothing desktop-related this week
<dgadomski> eof
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> topic is too long
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | more pink killer = more help | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: dgadom
<Laney> thanks dgadomski, maybe next time ;-)
<Laney> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: didroc
<didrocks> :p
<Laney> argh
<Laney> lose
<didrocks> (title is hardcoded)
<didrocks> * snapcraft-desktop-helper:
<didrocks>  - gtk settings init: theme fixes. Got an issue reported on the forum fixed back today. Implemented the necessary file sharing in snapd in unity7 interface (we will need to rename it at some point in "desktop" interface IMHO). That's now merged, pending on a snapd release.
<didrocks>  - add other fixes to launcher (add more default theming). Did the same for our GNOME platform snap.
<didrocks>  - strip down the size by removing ubuntu-app-platform (old SDK) support and Mir for desktop support. Branched though so that people can easily readd them if they need it.
<didrocks> * amazon:
<didrocks>  - rebase the snap on the version 1.0
<didrocks>  - retested fully with rescratching the whole config (with and without the snap). The same blocker persists. Amazon guys acked the issue.
<didrocks>  - discuss with security team and provide the base snap to get an interface working (at least, up to the point we are blocked on)
<didrocks> * discussed some client-specific snap workshop organization
<didrocks> .
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: duflu
 * Laney pastes
<Laney> * PulseAudio:
<Laney>   - SRU of A2DP Bluetooth audio fixes to xenial:
<Laney>     . Moving slowly, but still moving:
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue?queue_state=1&que
<Laney> ue_text=pulseaudio
<Laney> * BlueZ:
<Laney>   - Proposed upgrade to 5.45: bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1696075
<Laney>   - Drafted docs for git usage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Deskto
<Laney> pTeam/Bluetooth/BluezGit
<Laney>   - Blocked on a spurious test failure in a downstream:
<Laney>     . bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1696480
<Laney>     . Wrote, proposed and landed an upstream fix for python-dbusmock.
<Laney>     . No bluez fix required.
<Laney>     . Unblocked: Pitti released the fix to Ubuntu today.
<Laney> * Video acceleration:
<Laney>   - Tested a variety of players, videos, and hardware, in order to...
<Laney>   - Worked out test cases (specific videos and target threshold)
<Laney>   - Now I'm confident I know exactly what to do, and in what order.
<Laney> * Ubuntu Themes:
<Laney>   - Fixed the most visible and annoying Ambiance theme bug in artful Gnome:
<Laney>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-themes/+bug/1693613
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1693613 in Ubuntu theme "Ambiance/Radiance headerbar has more padding on top than on bottom" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> * Daily bug maintenance across gnome-shell, bluez, pulseaudio and mir.
<Laney> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ Joined Core Dev
<jbicha> â¢ Pushed latest security release (2.16.3) of webkit2gtk in to Debian 9 "Stretch" just before the deadline. No promises for future updates but we'll see how it goes.
<jbicha> â¢ Became GNOME Tweak Tool's maintainer. Did a 3.25 and a 3.24 release and let people know about some 3.25 improvements via my blog.
<jbicha> â¢ Started discussion of several default apps on the ubuntu-desktop list
<seb128> jbicha, congrats on coredev
<jbicha> â¢ Vala 0.36 transition
<jbicha> thanks
<jbicha> eof
<kenvandine> jbicha, congrats!
<Laney> nice one
<Laney> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: jamesh
<Laney> only people with short nicks are allowed from now on
<didrocks> :p
<Laney> * xdg-desktop-portal/snap prototype: The snapd changes and
<Laney> xdg-desktop-portal changes are working, with a snap being able to talk
<Laney> to e.g. the proxy resolver interface.  I should have the
<Laney> xdg-document-portal changes ready shortly, which is needed for the
<Laney> file picker portals.  Next step is to put builds of the prototype into
<Laney> a PPA.
<Laney> * gnome-software: Robert asked me to look at a few bugs here.  I'm
<Laney> starting on installation of snaps with classic confinement.
<Laney> #topic heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: heber
<Laney> guessing it's you ;-)
<heber> Hey guys! For the QA side:
<heber> * Desktop test plan in progress.
<heber> * Ubiquity and smoke jobs more stable and reliable.
<heber> * First version of Job for running desktop tests on HW in progress.
<heber> * Started discussing/defining some foundations needed before starting automating post install/upgrade tests.
<heber> EOF
<Laney> nice
<Laney> is that still running at the platform-qa-jenkins?
<heber> correct
 * Laney nod
<Laney> thanks!
<heber> https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/Artful/
<Laney> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: kenvan
<kenvandine> * Enabled the mir backend in gtk and patched out the need for content-hub
<kenvandine> * In updating my gnome snaps to use the gnome-3-24 snap I found some more packages that needed backports for xenial, so I backported those in the gnome-3-24 PPA
<kenvandine> * Finished off the blog post on the poll results, and worked with marketing to get that published on insights.
<kenvandine> * Had a great call with the gnome design team and gnome-shell maintainers
<kenvandine> * trying to organize having mpt join us at guadec for a day to talk about status icons
<kenvandine> * eof
<kenvandine> s/*//g
<kenvandine> :)
<Laney> nice
<Laney> design day sounds good ;-)
<kenvandine> yeah, we plan to discuss the status icons api there
<kenvandine> mpt would be a great addition to that
<didrocks> kenvandine: on backport in the PPA, does it means that people who will want to use that platform snap will have to install the PPA? Do we have instructions for this?
<Laney> we should get a topic list going so we don't forget to raise stuff
<kenvandine> didrocks, yes... and there will be instructions
<didrocks> "will" ok :-)
<Laney> also
<Laney> kenvandine: do you have commit access at gnome?
<kenvandine> didrocks, once we get a few snaps done and in the store i'll be posting about that on insights
<Laney> might be an idea to commit that de-content-hubification patch
<kenvandine> Laney, i used to :)
<kenvandine> not sure about now
<Laney> so we're vanilla again when there's a point release
<kenvandine> Laney, i wanted a little time to make sure those that wanted the mir backend are cool with having it without the pasteboard
<didrocks> kenvandine: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com sounds a better place for this :)
<seb128> kenvandine, didrocks, do we need to use the ppa? or should we just build a -dev snap from it?
<kenvandine> didrocks, even better :)
<didrocks> seb128: no -dev snap
<Laney> ahah
<didrocks> that was requested, worked on, and nacked
<kenvandine> bummer
<kenvandine> that would have been cool
<didrocks> we can publish a tarball though
<didrocks> let's discuss that maybe this week?
<seb128> I though kde sort of did it for their framework
<didrocks> they do a tarball
<seb128> just building a tar for the snap builddir
<seb128> from
<seb128> but yeah
<didrocks> +1 on the tarball
<seb128> it's probably too much to discuss in that topic
<didrocks> but let's discuss that maybe tomorrow?
<seb128> *meeting
<seb128> +1
<kenvandine> +1
<Laney> mmmmmmmmmooooooooooooving on
<Laney> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ New glib2.0
<Laney> â¢ ubuntu-dev-tools test (FTBFS) fix & upload to exp
<Laney> â¢ Had a planning meeting in London to try to discuss priorities / what to do this cycle, TBA
<Laney> â¢ gnome-software
<Laney> â Rebased on master
<Laney> â some more codec fixes
<Laney> â working on dropping apt backend now
<Laney> â should be ready to test/upload this week
<Laney> â¢ Fixed a crash bug in gnome-terminal
<Laney> ð
<Laney> oh and I switched to Shell on both machines and played with that
 * Laney is living the extension free life
<Laney> for now
<kenvandine> Laney, awesome :)
<Laney> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium 59.0.3071.86 promoted to stable last week but Chris found two issues with my packages (bug #1696965 and bug #1697496), working on them to get an update to users asap, and updated my test plan to ensure I catch this kind of regressions much earlier next time
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium beta to 60.0.3112.24
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium dev to 60.0.3112.20 then 61.0.3124.4 (looking into arm64 build failures on zesty and artful)
<oSoMoN> â¢ my packages for libreoffice 5.3.3 got sponsored into artful, thanks Seb!
<oSoMoN> â¢ started on debian merges, did gconf 3.2.6-4, thanks again Seb!
<ubot5> bug 1696965 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "First renderer process doesn't render page for chromium 59.0.3071.86 in KVM" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696965
<ubot5> bug 1697496 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium 59.0.3071.86 crashes at startup on x86" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697496
<oSoMoN> â¢ working on a script to automate debian/copyright generation for chromium
<oSoMoN> ðð¨ð¡
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> gconf, woah!
<seb128> :-)
<oSoMoN> yeah, gotta start somewhere :)
<seb128> it was an easy one, one revision in Debian to merge
<Laney> nod
<seb128> good job with it oSoMoN :-)
 * Laney usually fakemerges those ones
<Laney> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ reviews & sponsoring for the team (libreoffice 5.3.3, bluez 5.45, pulseaudio SRU, gconf merge)
<seb128> â¢ 2 days of planning work in London
<seb128> â¢ NEW review of e-d-s update for artful
<seb128> â¢ replied to ubuntu-desktop@ emails about suggested new desktop components
<seb128> </Week>
<Laney> oh yeah
<Laney> didrocks forgot the kde new reviews in his summary
<didrocks> Laney: I don't count Tuesday on my report :)
<didrocks> so for next one
<Laney> ahah
<didrocks> (mine is ready on Tuesday morning)
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> <spoil />
<didrocks> :)
 * Laney counts right up to 16:36 or so
<Laney> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: tkampp
<Laney> WELL!
<Laney> tkamppeter: let us have your status please ...
<Laney> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: Trevin
<Trevinho> Â· Joined the Fractional Scaling GNOME Hackfest
<Trevinho>  â¦ Setup various hardware to run GNOME with jhbuild and fractional scaling branches
<Trevinho>  â¦ Wrote an algorithm to pick the closest fractional levels close to integers that we can pick as logical size (to still have integer resolutions)
<Trevinho>  â¦ Updated gnome-control-center to support new configuration API and to show available scaling values per selected resolution
<Trevinho>  â¦ Some fixes in gnome shell toolkit to paint things taking in account the resource-scale
<Trevinho>  â¦ Fixed the fullscreen animation when using resource scaling in wayland
<Trevinho>  â¦ Defined al algorithm (to be tuned, as per discussion with vendors) to pick the preferred scaling value for each resolution (to be used as default)
<Trevinho>  â¦ Various other random fixes
<Trevinho>  â¦ Lots of other discussions (http://go.3v1n0.net/FactorialScalingJournal)
<Trevinho>  â¦ Writing a resume of it
<Trevinho> Â· Back to Europe :(
<Trevinho> ð
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> ladies and gentlemen, our new wayland expert
<didrocks> \o/
<Trevinho> not really... but.. getting into it :-)
<kenvandine> woot
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> Trevinho, we are going to miss having you online at the same time as us :p
 * Laney has a shadows bug in wayland if you want to look :P
<Laney> haha
<Laney> le troll
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah... :-D
<Laney> oh, tkamppeter just emailed me
<Laney> #topic tkamppeter 2
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: tkampp
<Laney> - CUPS: Did some tests for automatic queue creation and for needed changes on
<Laney> cups-browsed. Found a crash in the new code in the CUPS library and reported
<Laney> it upstream. Requested also a feature that clients can distinguish between
<Laney> permanent and temporary CUPS queues.
<Laney> - cups-filters: Tests upstream work for making it working with the new CUPS
<Laney> which by itself auto-creates print queues.
<Laney> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Student project coordination and mentoring.
<Laney> - Bugs.
<Laney> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: robert
<Laney> - LightDM / gnome-shell work - decided too hard to get done for 17.10
<Laney> - Refactored gnome-software snap plugin refining, should be more efficient
<Laney> reliable.
<Laney> - Investigating default GNOME apps on Ubuntu
<Laney> - Booking things for Snappy sprint
<Laney> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment | Desktop team 2017-06-13 Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<jbicha> seb128: are you able to handle removals like LP: #1695928 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<Laney> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Upcoming/in-progress work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/0T55ivzN/ubuntu-desktop-17-10-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | requests paired with a pink killer will be given preferential treatment
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 13 15:58:42 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-06-13-15.31.moin.txt
<jbicha> it looks like I entangled the UOA removal with the Evolution 3.24 transition (address-book-service needs to be rebuilt or removed)
<didrocks> thanks everyone!
<seb128> Laney shuting the AOB door without countdown :p
<Laney> I waited 1 minute :P
<oSoMoN> NOB
<Laney> hahah
<Laney> in (british) english that is rude
<seb128> jbicha, technical I could yes, I didn't give enough consideration to that list of packages to know if I agree they should go from the archive and not stay in universe though
<jbicha> seb128: do you know who else I should ping about Unity8 removal?
<oSoMoN> man, Iâm talking slang without even knowing it
<Laney> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nob
<Laney> (rude!)
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> "Typically used as an excellent cheap insult. "
<jbicha> I think gnome-weather is fairly uncontroversial for inclusion in ubuntu-desktop, unless we want to avoid gjs apps
<seb128> jbicha, try xnox he seemed eager to press the delete trigger
<seb128> jbicha, gjs apps is one question, the geolocation service used is another one, how reliable the service is a third one
<jbicha> I believe it's the same geolocation service used by the Night Light feature
<seb128> still doesn't tell me which one it is
<seb128> we should probably talk to the owner of that service before DOSing  by making our default install ping it on regular basis :p
<jbicha> seb128: is geoclue specific enough for what you're asking?
<seb128> not really
<seb128> there was a question on whether it's fine to hit that service by default
<seb128> and if we respect they guideline
<jbicha> the weather service or the location service?
<seb128> both
<seb128> whatever servers we make use of by using those features
<seb128> they might have conditions stating that it's not fine to use their service like we do
<seb128> or in commercial products or whatever
<jbicha> I believe the Red Hat desktop ships gnome-weather by default so commercial is unlikely to be an issue
<seb128> they maybe have an agreement with redhat
<seb128> I just don't know
<seb128> but I think we need to figure that out
<seb128> and talk to whoever is hosting the service
<seb128> to at least let them know what's going on
<seb128> also I don't know if we are fine having our default desktop "pinging" to third party servers by default
<seb128> my other issue is that whatever is returning a location is picking weird places, but that's a minor annoyance
<seb128> like it shows me the weather for "zestienhoven airport"
<seb128> I'm not in an airport and I don't even know where that place is
<jbicha> I think we already do ping 3rd-party servers for stuff (Firefox, fwupd, etc.)
<seb128> fwupd is being discussed and we are not sure we like it
<jbicha> seb128: it sounds like you need the Maps app too then! ;)
<seb128> :-)
<jbicha> I don't understand what's not to like about firmware updating
<seb128> what is not to like is not the firmware update
<seb128> is having all ubuntu install pinging a third party server
<chrisccoulson> I was wondering about this the other day actually
<seb128> our users really didn't like when we suggested doing that toward one of our servers
<jbicha> well, the captive portal detection will be the same basic thing
<seb128> it might be controversial for some of our users as well yes
<seb128> we should at least have a discussion about what services we are using, the impact
<jbicha> at least for desktop, you can't use a web browser without pinging large numbers of 3rd party servers so I think the concern is overblown there
<seb128> and document that we are doing so
<jbicha> gnome-control-center has a Privacy pane where you can disable Location
<seb128> maybe that should be off by default
<jbicha> it makes sense to add the Captive Portal detection there (or to the Network panel)
<jbicha> disabling those features and services by default isn't actually helping our users IMO
<jbicha> anyway, I'm done with my AOB for today's mtg now :)
<willcooke> Laney, those images on the maps thing were purely for my benefit - somewhere to put what they told me other than email.  I think I've worked it out now, and I'm trying to edit the maps
<Laney> willcooke: ok, just looked like some random pictures to me ;-)
<willcooke> Laney, :) yeah.
<willcooke> This master SVG is a conundrum
<Laney> what is the problem?
<willcooke> Laney, http://imgur.com/a/aa3yf
<willcooke> Laney, the current border is in blue, and it needs to move to the yellow
<Laney> isn't that kashmir?
<willcooke> think so
<Laney> disputed region
<Laney> is this request legitimate?
<willcooke> interestingly Google maps shows something different to me than it does to the guy who reported it (who is in India)
<willcooke> legal say it is
<Laney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir#/media/File:Kashmir_region_2004.jpg
<Laney> it's that green bit?
<willcooke> Laney, hmm, I think so.  Most of it at least
<jbicha> willcooke: Wikipedia says that Pakistan controls the northern part of Kashmir, although the whole thing is disputed
<willcooke> right, I think that ties up with what I'm doing
<Laney> you're putting it as part of india?
<Laney> well, if you've got the OK :P
<willcooke> I'm going to edit it, and then run it past legal
<Laney> willcooke: if I'm going to be reviewing this then I would appreciate their statement on the merge request to ward off any backlash
 * Laney thinks this is very sensitive
<Laney> night all
<willcooke> Laney, roger that.  night
<oSoMoN> night all
<cyphermox> jbicha: I have some issues with the last evolution upload... it disable 02_nss_paths.patch, which clearly won't apply but is still very required.
<cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/~cyphermox/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/7896475/+listing-archive-extra
<cyphermox> (disregard the failure on amd64, it's unrelated to that patch)
<jbicha> cyphermox: feel free to upload that, and if you'd like to update https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evolution/ubuntu too, that would be great
<jbicha> maybe we should mention that repo in the Vcs fields
<jbicha> eventually it will move to git
<cyphermox> ok
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-14
<jibel> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN, jibel
<jibel> hi duflu
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, jibel
<jibel> hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks :-)
 * didrocks doesn't feel lonely anymore here \o/
<seb128> haha
<flexiondotorg> Morning didrocks seb128 and the other desktopers
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg!
<jamesh> morning
<seb128> I'm trying to go back to start a bit earlier but still mostly failing
<didrocks> morning jamesh ;) (sounds like people look at IRC on UK-o-clock :p)
<seb128> evening jamesh
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<seb128> how is everybody doing?
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> ar'noon jamesh
<didrocks> evening* even
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> hey willcooke, pre-hey Laney
<willcooke> :))
<willcooke> any....second.....now......
<didrocks> tic tac tic tac
<willcooke> koza, shall will skip bluetooth meeting today?
<Laney> morning
<willcooke> morning Laney
<koza> willcooke, if you feel so; no meeting then seems so.
<Laney> seb128: planted some Cosmos, was watering them in when the chimes went ;-)
<Laney> how's it going?
<seb128> hey Laney :-)
<seb128> good! today shapes to be a nice day
<seb128> sunny and still not too warm
<seb128> had some good sleep
<seb128> you?
<seb128> bah, jbicha rebuilt bluez with new e-d-s just as it was ready to migrate and now it's blocked
<Laney> :/
<Laney> the old one would have been able to go in
<Laney> yeah I'm good
<Laney> didn't win the pub quiz last night but had some free beer
<seb128> better this way!
<seb128> it wouldn't be anything special to win it if you did that every second week
<flexiondotorg> I knocked up a patch for indicator-session last night.
<flexiondotorg> Please could one of you cast an eye over the merge proposal diff and let me know if it looks sane?
<seb128> url?
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-integration/+merge/325600
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE is going full on indicator support in 17.10. indicator-session was the last indicator missing some MATE integration.
<seb128> so you use the indicator and plan to keep doing so?
<seb128> nice
<flexiondotorg> We've been using some indicator as an options for ages.
<seb128> xnox, ^ see, indicators are still being used
<flexiondotorg> But most of the panel layouts in Ubuntu MATE will only offer indicators now.
<flexiondotorg> The Ubuntu MATE community asked for the initial indicator support and have been pressing that is it fully supported.
<andyrock> morning
<flexiondotorg> And the Mutiny layout started as a kind of joke, but it will be a fairly authentic Unity 7 interface in Ubuntu MATE 17.10 :O
<flexiondotorg> andyrock o/
<Laney> flexiondotorg: got a screenshot of that?
<Laney> hey andyrock
<muktupavels> flexiondotorg: XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP can have multiple desktop names...
<Laney> yeah you need to split it on : and compare each part
<Laney> g_strspit and g_strv_contains are your friends
<Laney> split
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> hey seb128
<andyrock> preparing coffee to start the day
<andyrock> you?
<Laney> what's the andyrock approved way to prepare coffee?
<Laney> I imagine some science lab of equipment for some reason
<seb128> andyrock, day is started for a bit but I could do with another coffee :-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> I imagine the opposite :p
<seb128> real italian, no complex machine, just old school pot or something
 * Laney has one of these https://ineedcoffee.com/clever-coffee-dripper-review/
<andyrock> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/png4sOb1/2017-06-14-103336.jpg
<andyrock> seb128
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> andyrock, that's what I was expecting :-)
<flexiondotorg> muktupavels Laney OK, I'll add a split for XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP
<flexiondotorg> Laney I grab a piccy a bit later.
<willcooke> wow! http://www.surveykshan.gov.in/
<willcooke> Laney, had the go-ahead from legal now.  Can you help me to test the changes to the maps?
<didrocks> gnome-maps upstream contributor!
<willcooke> alas, only libtimezonemap
<didrocks> willcooke: you can turn this as library maintainer in C with glib! :)
<Laney> willcooke: that website doesn't work for me
<Laney> can you provide a screenshot on the bug report please?
<willcooke> Laney, same.  That was the official source it was suggested to use, but it doesnt seem to have anything useful.  Spoke to Katherine and she's sent it over to the our lawyers in India for confirmation
<willcooke> so perhaps just park this for now
<willcooke> I'll screenshots now
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I'm scared of this bug
<Laney> but thanks for taking it on :-)
<willcooke> :) kinda wish I hadn't ;D
<willcooke> seb128, OEM release for this is end of July: https://trello.com/c/TzygcVy7  I've put a "due date" of a week Monday, is that do-able?
<seb128> willcooke, yes, it's on my list of things to look at for this week
<willcooke> seb128, merci
<seb128> de rien
<flexiondotorg> Laney http://imgur.com/gallery/ub7ot
<Laney> flexiondotorg: nice, that's not a bad likeness
<flexiondotorg> Close enough.
<flexiondotorg> Laney I've pushed splitting of XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-integration/+merge/325600
<Trevinho> flexiondotorg: lovely :-D
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, neat!
<jbicha> seb128: sorry about delaying bluez' promotion, could you review evolution in NEW since you did e-d-s?
<jbicha> seb128: Laney: last night slangasek did not want to accept evo because he didn't like the idea of bloating the Package lists with an installed-tests package
<Laney> I saw that
<Laney> I replied on #ubuntu-release
<Laney> But there's nothing I can actually do
<Laney> Get it through Debian and then it won't be the Ubuntu Archive Team's responsibility
<jbicha> I'm not sure that slangasek is even hard-blocking it, he just doesn't want to approve it himself?
<Laney> 'k, then maybe you can find another AA to do that
<jbicha> Laney: I haven't heard from xnox yet about LP: #1695928
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<jbicha> would it be better for me to undo dropping e-d-s-online-accounts for now so that we can rebuild address-book-service to finish the Evolution transition?
<jbicha> unity8 depends on a binary from address-book-service
<Laney> what's the problem with rebuilding it?
<xnox> jbicha, =)
<xnox> i am happy to remove everything, but didn't review your list
<jbicha> address-book-service build-depends on e-d-s-online-accounts
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I'm good with removing it I guess, but not an AA
<jbicha> unless there's a differnet problem? (I didn't try with -proposed disabled) https://bicha.net/address-book-service-rebuild.txt
<jbicha> I pinged you because you were involved in some of the unity8 removal discussions
<jbicha> and slangasek was involved as the AA previously so I can ping him when we agree on a list?
<Laney> I don't know that that can happen quickly
<Laney> but if you can identify a subset that lets this move forward, maybe that can
<Laney> looks like you woke xnox up, so over to you two if you don't mind
<xnox> hahah
<jbicha> xnox: it's a big long list of interconnected dependencies so I don't know if there's more data I could provide to make the list clearer?
<jbicha> for normal removals, I'd probably paste the output of reverse-depends into the bug but that would be a lot of pasting here
<willcooke> GNOME Shell -> Power Settings -> When I press the power button -> I can only suspend, not power off.  Anyone know if Is like that by design?
<qengho> willcooke: Sounds like a bug for the reason that it's bewildering.
<willcooke> qengho, :) I think that was hibernate vs suspend
<willcooke> pressing the power button to turn the power off seems kinda normal to me :)
<willcooke> also, HI! qengho
<qengho> Howdy!
<willcooke> qengho, are you at your new place yet?
<qengho> Nope. Moving physically in about a week.
<jbicha> willcooke: yes it is like that by design, there is or will be an option in Tweak Tool for that setting
<willcooke> Exciting!  Good luck!  Will you be allowed on IRC still? ;)
<willcooke> jbicha, thx!
<mdeslaur> data loss is by design?
<willcooke> mdeslaur, as in suspend for ages and the battery dies?
<mdeslaur> yeah
<jbicha> a direct Power Off action by pressing the Power Button (sometimes accidentally) is bad
<willcooke> I can't remember, but I /think/ it uses hybrid suspend where it will save to disk and power off when the power gets too low.  But that probably only works on newer machines
<jbicha> Tweak Tool's implementation will call it Power Off but it will be "interactive" where it gives you a 60-second countdown with an option to really Power Off right now (like the software Power button in GNOME Shell)
<jbicha> GNOME does not support hybrid suspend yet
<willcooke> I thought upowerd did that for you?
<qengho> Hope this isn't offtopic, but I don't see why hybrid didn't always work. Write out the boot-recovery at lid close, and go to soft suspend, and if the soft suspend ever perishes from lack of electicity, then it has a way to boot to recover.
<mdeslaur> I thought hybrid needed a swap partition?
<qengho> Yes.
<willcooke> ahh, that could be it
<mdeslaur> and we just switched to swap files :P
<qengho> Though swap files could have worked with a smart loader, and grub is smart enough. Lilo wasn't.
 * jbicha blames xnox for everything again :)
<didrocks> the issues are some graphics card which can't restate their state properly (weren't serialized) like, some nvidia cards AFAIK
<ogra> mdeslaur, well, so we only support hybrid on laptops with separate HDD-battery ... easy ...
<jbicha> gnome-control-center has a new maintainer so maybe it's possible to get Power Off added back to Settings>Power>Power button
<jbicha> I'm trying to get the needed setting added back to gnome-settings-daemon first: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/781108
<ubot5> Gnome bug 781108 in power "Add power off option to power off button" [Enhancement,New]
<willcooke> Maybe it's not really a problem, I mean you can poweroff from the menu easy enough
<jbicha> but it's also a GNOME Design decision so it may be stuck in Tweak Tool or a distro patch to gnome-control-center
<seb128> jbicha, hey, sorry I'm busy in meeting, I have a look after that one is over
<jbicha> np, thanks :)
<seb128> jbicha, btw do you plan to work on the network-manager merge/update? that would be welcome if you want to do so
<seb128> seems like everybody else is currently busy
<seb128> I can try to help with that maybe next week but things tend to land on my todolist so it might get pushed back
<jbicha> willcooke suggested that I maybe work with ochosi on that merge to give him more merging practice?
<seb128> jbicha, he suggested oSoMoN, but Olivier is currently busy with chromium updates and then is going to look at libreoffice updates next week
<seb128> so maybe for next round
 * Laney is interested to try the captive portal stuff
<jbicha> oops, wrong O name :(
<Laney> was wondering if we want to put the required file on an ubuntu.com server somewhere
<didrocks> is it possible to put it on people.canonical.com for now just for testing?
<jbicha> Laney: the captive portal thing is blocked by a few things, we'd like to have an option in gnome-control-center (Privacy or Network) to disable it but enable it by default
<Laney> it's just a URL in a config file AIUI
<Laney> so yes
<Laney> what things?
<jbicha> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29600
<didrocks> hum, I bet the config file isn't per user
<jbicha> I think the proposed 204 response isn't supported by NM yet?
<jbicha> the g-c-c bug is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/737362
<ubot5> Gnome bug 737362 in Privacy "Privacy panel is missing switch to disable captive portal detection" [Normal,New]
<Laney> I doubt it's been magically worked on
<Laney> but the merge would bring Debian's implementation which is okay as an opt-in
<seb128> we should update n-m in any case, even if that's without that feature in a first iteration
<Laney> I am not proposing blocking on implementing it.
<seb128> I didn't suggest you were
<seb128> I was mostly saying that for jbicha
<didrocks> I can ask my fedora friends if there is anything they did as a privacy feature. I would be surprised they didn't
<jbicha> cyphermox: is there a problem with letting Debian exp's new nm-config-connectivity-debian pkg in to artful?
<jbicha> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-utopia/network-manager.git/tree/debian/20-connectivity-debian.conf?h=experimental
<jbicha> didrocks: Fedora's solution was to make the config snippet a separate package that privacy-sensitive users can uninstall (like Debian has now done)
<jbicha> it works but a toggle switch in g-c-c would make it nicer
<didrocks> hum, but it means multiple users (yeah I know, not trendy) can't select for themselves?
<didrocks> g-c-c would need to be per-user, or global with a polkit
<didrocks> switch*
<jbicha> yes, the current implementation is system-wide, but isn't networking generally system-wide too?
<didrocks> yeah, it just means it's not just a settings to implement, a little bit more is needed, but both can be handled
<didrocks> just wanted to be sure we are all talking about the same thing :)
<jbicha> oh, address-book-service fails to build at the same spot even without -proposed enabled :(
<jbicha> I did test the evo transition first but that was back in April :(
<jbicha> oh, vala
<jbicha> ricotz: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/323996548/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.address-book-service_0.1.2+17.04.20161124.1-0ubuntu1~ubuntu17.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<jbicha> "incompatible get accessor type"
<jbicha> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/address-book-service/trunk/view/head:/3rd_party/folks/dummy/lib/dummy-persona-store.vala
<seb128> jbicha, new evo binNEWed
<Laney> yay
<jbicha> thanks, now we just have to figure out vala
<ricotz> jbicha, looking
<ricotz> jbicha, pretty crude and minimal fix though https://paste.debian.net/plain/971468
<ricotz> folks itself had a lot of those issues
<Laney> argh
<Laney> just CRASH already
<jbicha> ricotz: thank you very much, your fix worked :)
<Laney> seb128: bluez is green again now ;-)
<Laney> jbicha: don't forget evolution-indicator
<Laney> night all!
<willcooke> see ya Laney
<jbicha> Laney: thanks, have a good evening
<jbicha> Laney: btw my wife doesn't like your definition of "nob"
<jbicha> she cites https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nob
<Laney> jbicha: is your wife 300 years old?
<Laney> I speak the language of the street yo
<Laney> check yourself
<jbicha> well she's writing like a clean sort-of-fantasy novel (without magic) and she wants to use the word for the aristocrats
<jbicha> so how common is the street meaning?
<Laney> very
<Laney> if you went up to somebody and said 'nice nob'
<Laney> they probably wouldn't be very pleased with you
<jbicha> lol, ok
<Laney> but in a historical context that other definition is ok
<Laney> might get a smile :P
<Laney> see you!
<oSoMoN> Laney, isnât the offending meaning originally supposed to be spelled with a "k" ?
<oSoMoN> the 5th definition at https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nob seems to suggest that
<jbicha> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/knob
<oSoMoN> that seems to confirm it
<willcooke> night all
<ricotz> jbicha, any more vala-related failures?
<jbicha> I'm sure there are, but that one was blocking the Evolution 3.24 transition
<jbicha> I haven't done tried rebuilding the vala rdepends yet
<ricotz> if a git.gnome.org based package is failing there is likely a commit upstream you can cherry-pick
<jbicha> I'm asking the folks maintainer to do a new release
<jbicha> you have some sort of ci for gnome vala packages now?
<ricotz> oh, I see folks didn't get a release
<ricotz> valabot ci isn
<ricotz> valabot ci isn't new, but more known now ;)
<ricotz> http://paldo.org:8010/builders
<ricotz> of course gnome-continuous catches things too
<jbicha> ricotz: did you want to try vala rdepends rebuilds in a PPA so we can see what needs to be fixed?
<ricotz> jbicha, https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/red/+packages
<jbicha> did you delete all the ones that passed?
<ricotz> yes
<jbicha> address-book-service, anjuta, gnome-builder, shotwell, valabind are good now
<ricotz> bamf and zeitgeist too
<gQuigs> is there a page/policy describing why the dev release doesn't get Firefox updates?  (I thought it didn't get chromium either, but it appears to get them)
<jbicha> unless we ignored armhf and ppc64el, firefox would be stuck in -proposed anyway, maybe that's not a good reason and maybe we should just drop those binaries there
<gQuigs> jbicha: seems those are being ignored anyway.. I only see latest builds for  amd64, arm64, i386 in -security.. (but there is an attempt to build them)
<oSoMoN> night folks
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-15
<jbicha> duflu: hi, do you want to push your bluez packaging to the bzr branch?
<duflu> jbicha: I can copy it, but the plan is to keep it all in git. Let me find the docs
<duflu> jbicha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bluetooth/BluezGit
<jbicha> ok, could you update the Vcs fields in debian/control the next time you upload?
<duflu> otp...
<jbicha> duflu: have you used git-buildpackage before?
<duflu> on the phone
<jbicha> lol
<jbicha> ohâ¦
<duflu> jbicha: Sorry. Too many people want my attention simultaneously....
<duflu> jbicha: Yeah I didn't want to update the official URL in case the main bluez maintainer didn't like it
<duflu> So it is "proposed"
<jbicha> I thought *you* were the bluez maintainer :)
<jbicha> so have you used gbp and have you seen http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep14/ ?
<duflu> jbicha: Nope, but noted thanks
<jbicha> gbp is pretty popular in Debian
<duflu> jbicha: Sounds pretty similar. So that's good.
<jbicha> you can do 'gbp import-orig' for instance
<duflu> jbicha: I'm a purist though, so would lean toward plain git commands (it's complicated enough already). I'm not saying no, but also not thinking about it today
<duflu> Trevinho: Are you around? (and if so in what country?! :)
<Trevinho> duflu: yes...
<Trevinho> duflu: although I'm in Italy :-D
<duflu> Hah. Jet lag
<Trevinho> and no, it's not jatlag...
<duflu> OK, you're just crazy. I knew that
<Trevinho> I was synced, just... Some night hacking that didn't end so well :|
<Trevinho> :-)
<duflu> Trevinho: Any thoughts on https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/ubuntu-themes/fix-1693613/+merge/325369 ?
<Trevinho> and escaping strings around
<Trevinho> duflu: yeah, i saw it... I've not tested it, but it looks right from the source
<Trevinho> I'll check it ASAP
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<willcooke> morning all
<willcooke> or afternoon
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> How goes didrocks?
<willcooke> Is the sun out?
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, crazy night with lightning strokes and heavy rain, but all sunny and blue sky today
<didrocks> how about you?
<willcooke> Ooh, lucky!  No such fun here.  chrisccoulson will be annoyed that he missed out :)
<willcooke> Looks like it's going to be a nice day today, but quite windy still
<Laney> tag
<willcooke> what is up Laney
<didrocks> hey hey Laney
<Laney> the great nob debate rumbles on
<Laney> oSoMoN: no, unless you want to be Wrongâ¢
<willcooke> ah ha, speaking of which...
<Laney> hey didrocks, hey willcooke ;-)
<Laney> how's it going?
<willcooke> http://www.nhaines.com/blog/2017/06/01/looking-ubuntu-1710-wallpapers-right-now/
<willcooke> err
<didrocks> good good! yourself?
<willcooke> wrong link
<willcooke> https://twitter.com/ProfBrianCox/status/875042690840354819
<willcooke> right link ^
<didrocks> ;)
<Laney> argh
<Laney> not a good face to see in the morning
<willcooke> XD
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, willcooke, yeah, I'm jealous about the lightning :)
<chrisccoulson> I had to get the sprinkler out yesterday
 * Laney should go water the allotment today
<didrocks> how warm is it?
<didrocks> and how far is your allotment btw?
<Laney> not super hot, should be about 20 later
<Laney> but hasn't rained for a few days
<Laney> it's about 10 minutes on the bike
<Laney> maybe slightly less
<didrocks> oh, still a little bit far from your home
<Laney> the one 2 minutes down the road is full :'(
<didrocks> how does it work, you just rent, or is it some kind of getting selected process?
<Laney> you get on a waiting list
<Laney> and then when a space comes you get offered it
<didrocks> that's nice
<Laney> i think it's like Â£40 a year
<Laney> quite cheap
<didrocks> indeed, definitively worth it
<seb128> back
<willcooke> hey seb128, how was the space?
<seb128> willcooke, it's nice, I'm staying here for the day
<willcooke> nice!
<seb128> it's quite big
<seb128> they have quiet space, "normal" space with coffee and quiet music in the back, meeting rooms to book or a few small "first arrived, first served" ones
<seb128> special quiet seat with high back for videocalls
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> sounds good!
<Laney> is it near enough to your place?
<seb128> it's like 20 min door to door
<seb128> I'm probably too lazy to go every day, but it's not too bad
<seb128> sounds good for 2 or 3 times a week
<Laney> nod
<andyrock> good morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> hey flexiondotorg
<oSoMoN> hey andyrock
<seb128> hey andyrock
<willcooke> seb128, Laney - just chatting to jibel about the first testing day - do you think we should wait for gdm?  Any ideas when that will happen?
<seb128> blocked on security so no idea
<willcooke> seb128, ack, thx
<seb128> yw
<seb128> dropping offline for a bit to grab lunch
<seb128> bbiab
<willcooke> http://www.techrepublic.com/article/ubuntu-17-10-finally-an-exciting-ubuntu-release/
<willcooke> Some factual mistakes, but positive none the less ^
<Laney> haha
<Laney> could have asked for a fact check
<Laney> still, nice enough
<darkxst> hey desktoppers
<willcooke> hey darkxst
 * willcooke -> errunds bbl
<darkxst> anyone heading to GUADEC? I should be ;)
<Laney> darkxst: yeh, some of us are
<jbicha> Laney: I'm leaving the config-connectivity pkg out of this first NM 1.8 upload to not get the update stuck in the new queue
<jbicha> it's not too hard to test the feature without the package though
<seb128> jbicha, hey, thanks for the nm 1.8 merge!
<jbicha> well I rebooted and my wifi still worked so hopefully I didn't break anything ;)
<seb128> hehe
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<jbicha> xnox: what do you think of phase 1 from LP: #1695928 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1695928
<Laney> jbicha: what's wrong with the new queue?
<Laney> queuebot says it went in there anyway ...
<jbicha> I think it's a bit controversial whether we want a Debian config-connectivity package in Ubuntu
<jbicha> if there is one, my understanding is that it should point to Ubuntu/Canonical servers
<Laney> I don't think I can be bothered to argue about it
<Laney> so, whatever
<jbicha> me either, but the new queue is a good opportunity for someone to say "wait, no"
<Laney> so then we'd discuss it with them if that happened
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> you did what you did, that's it, let's move on
<Laney> thanks for doing it
<jbicha> maybe we can do that after 1.8 gets in to artful; I'd hate to have it stuck in the new queue because of that question
<seb128> jbicha, did you use a vcs to do the n-m update?
<jbicha> seb128: yes, butâ¦
<seb128> which one?
<seb128> (just curious, and I'm in an hangout where people are discussion what vcs to use to maintain n-m, if we want to keep using gbp)
<jbicha> https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/log/?h=artful
<jbicha> why would we *not* want to use gbp
<willcooke> jbicha, are you free for a hangout real quick?  on n-m 1.8
<jbicha> the "but" is because I branched "master" to "zesty" and force pushed "master" and "upstream" and "pristine-tar" from Debian, and then made an artful branch
<seb128> jbicha, the n-m upload is in New?
<jbicha> yes
<seb128> I though you said you let the connectivity out to avoid New
<seb128> I probably misread what you said
<jbicha> the connectivity package could be controversial, the new gir package is not
<Laney> It got accepted.
<seb128> oh ok
<Laney> It could have been re-uploaded it somebody insisited on rejecting a new not-installed-by-default package containing a configuration file.
<Laney> oops, I said let's move on
<Laney> :-)
<jbicha> willcooke: I would need more notice for video chat, sorry
<seb128> woot, responsive archive admins doing NEW reviews
<willcooke> jbicha, np at all.  I'll catch up with you later and see if you're free next week around this time?
<jbicha> yes, just let me know the time in advance :)
<willcooke> cheers jbicha
<tsimonq2> Hello :)
<tsimonq2> What's left in the archive for Unity 8 things that depend on Qt, i.e. things we should be concerned about if wanting to do a Qt transition?
<seb128> tsimonq2, looks at the lib you want to transition rdepends?
<tsimonq2> seb128: I don't understand what you're saying?
<tsimonq2> I'm working to get Qt 5.9 in the archive.
<tsimonq2> I wanted to know if there's anything I should watch out for before this lands
<tsimonq2> (we're going to rebuild in a PPA first, but still)
<seb128> tsimonq2, use rmadison or such to know what is using the librarie you are transitionning
<tsimonq2> seb128: On it.
<gQuigs> tsimonq2:  relevant bug ^ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center-signon/+bug/1695928 ..  (what's on it's way out)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1695928 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Please remove obsolete UOA packages" [Undecided,New]
<tsimonq2> Oh, thank you.
<tsimonq2> gQuigs: You know if we have a status update on that at all?
<tsimonq2> (nothing in the bug)
<seb128> tsimonq2, I mean the archive is public you can look at the rdepends yourself without asking here
<tsimonq2> seb128: I was just looking for something just like gQuigs gave
<tsimonq2> But you're right, seb128
 * tsimonq2 exits
<davidcalle> willcooke: hey, remember our chat the other day? Suddenly snap:// links work from insights.ubuntu.com, are you aware of any recent change that could explain it?
<willcooke> davidcalle, yeah, I totally fixed it
<willcooke> davidcalle, lies!
<davidcalle> Ahahaha
<willcooke> gald it works, that's great news.  Maybe Thibaut had it fixed?
<davidcalle> No, because it doesn't work for at least one other person in Marketing
<davidcalle> If you can give it a try, there is a link on the word "vectr" in the install instructions there: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/13/vectr-a-fresh-take-on-vector-graphics-edition-on-linux/
<willcooke> davidcalle, testing
<willcooke> davidcalle, http://imgur.com/a/rijs8
<willcooke> boom!
<davidcalle> Magical code fairies
<davidcalle> thanks for confirming :)
<willcooke> yw
<willcooke> woo, finishing on time today!  Night all
 * oSoMoN EOD, have a good evening everyone!
<flexiondotorg> jbicha Could you take a look at this for me please?
<flexiondotorg> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/06/13/vectr-a-fresh-take-on-vector-graphics-edition-on-linux/
<flexiondotorg> Damn
<flexiondotorg> Wrong URL.
<flexiondotorg> jbicha This one - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-integration/+merge/325600
<flexiondotorg> I saw you'd recently made a change an uploaded.
<jbicha> flexiondotorg: could you use bileto for it? also, I don't think the added suggests there are useful
<muktupavels> flexiondotorg: have_mate_program does not follow code style... also you can probably store is_mate somewhere so you dont have to repeat same check multiple times?
<robert_ancell> https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/06/15/developers-use-spaces-make-money-use-tabs/
<robert_ancell> For all you tab loving developers out there, repent!
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-16
<immu> how can i upgrade to artful?
<jbicha> duflu: Laney added the whoopsie settings task as proposed in trello earlier this week
<duflu> jbicha: OK, thanks
 * duflu is now winning at Friday. 4K 60FPS video playback with 3% CPU
<jamesh> and I got a confined test application to pop up a trusted file picker and be able to read a file from a directory it can't access
<jibel> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<didrocks> good morning
<flexiondotorg> jibel oSoMoN didrocks Morning
<immu> hey
<jamesh> Some details on getting my xdg-desktop-portal demo working: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/xdg-desktop-portal-proof-of-concept-demo/1027
<Laney> morning
<willcooke> morning!
<willcooke> Laney, allotment joke:  Someone keeps putting more soil on my allotment.
<willcooke> The plot thickens.
<Laney> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOHOOOOOOOO
<Laney> that took a second to sink in, a sure sign of a good joke
<didrocks> morning Laney, willcooke
<Laney> seen "curl https://icanhazdadjoke.com"?
<seb128> good morning UKers
<Laney> hey didrocks! hey seb128!
<Laney> happy ... friday ...
 * Laney checks to make sure that is true
<Laney> indeed it is
<didrocks> yeah \o/
<seb128> happy friday!
<andyrock> morning!
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<andyrock> hey seb128
<andyrock> not bad not bad
<didrocks> Laney: I am a little bit clueless about where is your amazon upload. I can see in -changes the removal you did, but didn't find where you added your new one (and set it by default on G-S schema)
<didrocks> Laney: I'm checking this in preparation of the migration script, as I think some translations for that item will be in order
<Laney> hi didrocks
<Laney> hey andyrock!
<Laney> didrocks: it's a package called ubuntu-web-launchers and the gsettings default is set in ubuntu-settings
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/17.10.3
<didrocks> Laney: ah, you did add to that one, perfect, thanks!
<Laney> didrocks: I guess the migration should remove it if the user removed it from Unity?
<Laney> I didn't think about that
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, that, I need to check the .desktop name as well if it's the same, or do the translation, and so on
<Laney> nod
<didrocks> no worry, I'll handle it
<Laney> it's different
<Laney> thanks
<didrocks> yeah ;) multiple configs, but easy enough :p
<Laney> â¥
<didrocks> I need to check as well ubiquity with a new install
<didrocks> IIRC, we didn't add it by default at first in Unity, then, there was a script adding it in the live session
<didrocks> (so that it's not on the installed version)
<didrocks> or we added it and then ubiquity was removing it from the installed session?
<didrocks> I don't remember
<didrocks> one or the other, but needs to check
<didrocks> need*
<didrocks> no, it's good, we have it by default, and as ubiquity isn't installed, first unity run removes it. Need to check if the shell has the same behavior
<didrocks> (we added ubiquity-gtkui.desktop though, not ubiquity.desktop)
<jamesh> willcooke: it's still waiting on one PPA build, but these instructions cover getting xdg-desktop-portal talking to a snap: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/xdg-desktop-portal-proof-of-concept-demo/1027
<willcooke> jamesh, wow!  That's awesome!  Thanks and congrats!
 * willcooke reads
<seb128> willcooke, on snappy topic https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/in-progress-snapcraft-2-32/1015
<seb128> "Stakeholders, if there's something you're missing and would like to get it into this release, please speak up!"
<seb128> I wonder who they consider stakeholders though
<seb128> and it's snapcraft not snapd
<seb128> but still interesting
<willcooke> ahh, right
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> I expect Trevinho, kenvandine and didrocks probably have some suggestions.
<willcooke> please comment on that thread if you do chps
<willcooke> chaps
<willcooke> thanks for spotting that seb128
<seb128> np
<didrocks> TBH, we don't really have anything on the snapcraft side AFAIK, it's really more on the snapd one where we will get things needed
<seb128> Ken has items for snapcraft
<seb128> especially about handling of libs that are coming from content sharing
<seb128> snapcraft currently tries to be clever and copy them over in your snap
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> most of the blockers otherwise are more on the snapd side
<didrocks> I guess he got an answer on the forum to do what I suggested some times ago: the tarball
<didrocks> (which should remove that issue)
<didrocks> we should do that btw, create a release asset and change the part to reference the tarball
<didrocks> would need kenvandine to comment here though so that we can coordinate ^
<seb128> the tarball wouldn't solve his issue I think
<seb128> his case is that he uses the framework
<seb128> + he needs libgtksourceview that isn't in the gnome platform
<seb128> so he adds it as a stage-package
<seb128> or that package depends on libgtk
<seb128> and snapcraft pulls in libgtk then
<didrocks> ah, with an additional package, sure
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> good one, I was thinking about "framework usage only" (which we still need to do)
<seb128> right
<didrocks> going to be complex for this libgtksourceview deps + framework though
<didrocks> nothing is telling you are were compiled against the same ABI
<didrocks> s/are//
<seb128> yeah, we should probably just build gtksourceview from source
<seb128> stage packages make things more complex
<seb128> also the tarball idea works
<seb128> but it's not integrated with our tools and infra
<didrocks> but yeah, mixing stage-packages which has potentiel deps on tarball should have a way to raise a warning
<didrocks> well
<didrocks> there is no infra and it's known
<seb128> sort of
<didrocks> the technical decision was made by people nacking the -dev snap
<seb128> you can build from launchpad using a ppa and autoupload to the store
<seb128> which we currently do
<didrocks> yeah, from packages, not tarball
<seb128> right
<didrocks> but we'll have to find a way to publish that tarball (manually or automatically)
<didrocks> unsure how we can do that from a launchpad snap ppa or b.snapcraft.io
<didrocks> (I think it's *not* possible)
<seb128> same here :-/
<didrocks> so, that removes the "autobuild/autoupload case"
<didrocks> something we should raise
<didrocks> in that same thread
<didrocks> useful to discuss, we find new issues :)
<didrocks> seb128: feel free to amend: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/strip-files-included-by-a-content-interface-from-prime/1007/4?u=didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the post, looks good to me
<seb128> let's see what they reply
<didrocks> yep
 * kenvandine waves
<oSoMoN> hey kenvandine
<duflu> willcooke: OK, here's a start, and a plan. Possibly too conversational but it's the first version... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntelQuickSyncVideo
 * willcooke reads
<willcooke> wow
<willcooke> this is great
<willcooke> Will play with it later on
<willcooke> thanks a lot duflu, great stuff
<duflu> willcooke: No problem. I need to finish up...
<andyrock> seb128 Laney what's the correct way to build a debian package with a recipe when the source code and the debian folder are in different branches?
<andyrock> e.g. lp:~ubuntu-desktop/snapd-glib/ubuntu
<andyrock> i've this https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/+recipe/snapd-glib-daily-2
<andyrock> but it's complaining about missing gtk-doc.make
<Laney> I've not set up a recipe before, sorry :(
<Laney> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/Recipes
<Laney> the nest-part packaging thing looks helpful for you maybe
<flexiondotorg> Laney can I request a favour.
<flexiondotorg> I'd really like to land this - https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/indicator-session/mate-integration/+merge/325600
<flexiondotorg> For Alpha 1 so I can line up some testing of the new indicator stuff in Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> I've got other package updates ready to upload, but they reference indicator-session in the panel layouts.
<Laney> flexiondotorg: ok
<Laney> Trevinho: there's no reason not to use g_auto* stuff in indicators is there?
<flexiondotorg> Laney cheers.
<Laney> the issue is it makes the code compile on gcc/clang only
<seb128> andyrock, I've never tried that, maybe have a look to what Laney pointed you out and let me know if you still doesn't manage to get it work, I might be able to have a look
<andyrock> i'm using merging
<andyrock> nesting should not be necessary
<andyrock> but it's failing to autogenerate that file
<andyrock> I'm debugging
<Laney> ok, well your question sounded like you wanted to know how to do that
<Laney> let us know if you need more help
<seb128> jbicha, you noticed that the n-m update has autopkg issues?
 * Laney stares at Trevinho 
<Trevinho> Laney: no I don't think so... Where was it?
<Laney> Trevinho: nowhere, I just want to suggest it in a review
<seb128> good morning Trevinho
<Laney> hey Trevinho btw
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> happy friday to you
<ahayzen> Hi everyone, I have a Dell XPS with an Ubuntu OEM install which has a recovery partition on the SSD, and was wondering if anyone knows what happens if one selects "install and erase" in the installer for Ubuntu 17.10 or Ubuntu GNOME 17.04. Will it retain the recovery partition or wipe it?
<jibel> ahayzen, install and erase wipes all the partitions. If you want to keep your data on some partitions, select custom partitioning
<ahayzen> jibel, ok, but there isn't an automated way to keep the recovery partition but still do a clean install ?
 * ahayzen wonders if that is a usecase that shouldn't require doing custom partitioning
<jibel> ahayzen, I don't tihnk so, unless there is an OS installed on the partition in which case you can do a side by side installation
<ahayzen> jibel, ok thanks for the info :-)
<jibel> yw
<Trevinho> ah, hey Laney (and seb who left), sorry I'm lost in too many conversations :-D
<Laney> Trevinho doesn't love us :'(
<seb128> that's because we don't use enough our hands when speaking
<Trevinho> Laney: I do love you guys!
<Trevinho> But I?m really bad at multi-tasking
 * Laney hugs Trevinho 
<Laney> apt build-dep ./
<Laney> what a command
<didrocks> yep! :) used to have scripts for this
<Laney> yeah, RIP mk-build-deps
 * oSoMoN calls it a day
<oSoMoN> have a great week-end everyone
<Laney> see you oSoMoN, have a good one
 * didrocks too, have a good week-end :)
<jbicha> ricotz: do you have any pointers for how I should figure out the remaining vala rdep failures?
<jbicha> â¦unless you wanted to work on them?
<ricotz> jbicha, I have got some fixes upstream for e.g. font-manager, gnome-pie, gnome-pomodoro
<ricotz> so better make sure those packages which failed in the past are actually still failing
<jbicha> ok, I guess was thinking more specifically about the Unity-related failures
<ricotz> jbicha, if you have a recent failure and you have no clue what it is about then point me to it
<jbicha> ricotz: indicator-sound today: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/324229477/buildlog_ubuntu-artful-amd64.indicator-sound_12.10.2+17.10.20170605-0ubuntu1~ubuntu17.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<jbicha> I just don't enough about vala to try figuring these out without more study
<jbicha> I just picked it from your list, it's not particularly urgent except that we'd like to figure these out before 17.10's release :)
<ricotz> jbicha, ok
<ricotz> will take a look after dinner
<willcooke_> happy weekend all!
<willcooke_> night
<Laney> me too, laters alligaters
<ricotz> jbicha, indicator-sound: https://paste.debian.net/plain/971752
<jbicha> thanks!
<ochosi> jbicha: humm, i knw that question comes a bit out of the blue, but what's the plan with indicators or what is their future without unity?
<ochosi> i really like them and i guess we would like to keep them around in xubuntu
<jbicha> ochosi: I think you should look into what's needed to get sunweaver 's version to work in Xfce https://sunweavers.net/blog/node/58
<jbicha> if his versions can support Unity, then there's no need to keep the old Canonical versions
<jbicha> (but maybe he should just use the existing Ubuntu package names in that case too :) )
<ochosi> jbicha: right, i had never heard of that at all. i'll start reading
<jbicha> it's pretty much new except that as sun_weaver points out, he's been working on it behind the scenes for a long time
<ricotz> jbicha, libgnome-games-support has a fixed upstream version
<jbicha> yes, I saw that, I'm just waiting for a DD to upload it to Debian
<jbicha> (I asked mcatanzaro to do a new release last night)
<ricotz> jbicha, regarding synapse, there are patches upstream to fix it
<ricotz> ah, I see
<jbicha> font-manager is fixed now in artful
<jbicha> ricotz: you're synapse upstream?
<jbicha> I think I'll just wait for you to make a new release then :)
<ochosi> jbicha: ok so from what i read there, it would be best to just replace the indicator stack in ubuntu with that of sunweaver/debian
<ochosi> and i guess that xubuntu would just be compatible with it as long as there are no api breaks
<jbicha> ochosi: sure, but I don't think sunweaver runs Unity so someone needs to make sure that things work with Unity7
<jbicha> I think the namechange itself is a kind of api break
<ochosi> jbicha: yeah, that's why i meant, if it replaced the indicator stack in ubuntu there probably wouldn't be the need for the renaming
<jbicha> kenvandine[m][m]: if you're still around, could you review https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2824 otherwise I can ping you next week
<jbicha> and https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2823
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-17
<pisi0[m]> Do you have any news about GNOME 3.26? Did the ubuntu developers discuss it?
<jbicha> pisi0[m]: we're waiting until later in the release cycle to decide https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-April/004907.html
<pisi0[m]> jbicha: Thank you for info
<jbicha> ricotz: I'm probably going to "fix" midori's build failure by just removing it from Ubuntu :|
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-06-18
<robert_ancell> jbicha, hi
<robert_ancell> jbicha, still confused by bileto...
<jbicha> robert_ancell: happy Sunday (!)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, oh, congrats on the core membership!
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/indicator-sound/build-with-vala36/+merge/325859
<robert_ancell> oh, I just have to approve the MPs?
<jbicha> I'll talk to Seb next week about seeing whether Core Dev should be part of those indciator teams
<jbicha> yes
<robert_ancell> jbicha, what's the "private set" issue?
<jbicha> that patch came straight from ricotz so I assume he knows what he's doing with vala :)
<jbicha> the other MPs were mine
<robert_ancell> jbicha, the indent issue is not just a warning, it must fix a bug right? Or was 'pos' not being used?
<jbicha> I don't know anything about dee, I just guessed there :|
<jbicha> it fixed the build but I didn't know how to test functionality for it
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I thought the comment was a bit misleading as it has actually changed the code
<jbicha> robert_ancell: if you want, I could ask Ken about that next week since he's touched dee more in the past
<robert_ancell> jbicha, MPs all updated
<jbicha> that's amazing work on gnome-software 3.20
 * robert_ancell misses the Unity volume indicator that didn't plonk itself in the middle of the screen over the video you're watching
<jbicha> the Xenial branch was always too confusing for me to do much with it before
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I still can't believe I got to the end of it
<robert_ancell> We do still have 44 patches, which is a bit scary.
<robert_ancell> I'm going to a sprint with hughsie in a week though so I'll see if we can reduce that a little
<jbicha> robert_ancell: you're running Artful now, right?
<robert_ancell> yep
<jbicha> robert_ancell: did you get the gnome-software update I pushed yesterday? Add-ons>Fonts and Input Sources now works from the homepage :)
<robert_ancell> I didn't notice, but nice work!
<jbicha> hughsie did the work, I just pointed out the issue to ximion and cherry-picked
<robert_ancell> The lack of 'bzr cherry-pick' always annoyed me. Such a handy feature
<robert_ancell> Sure you can do 'bzr merge -c' but it doesn't have the same nice feel
<jbicha> robert_ancell: the part about bileto I have the most trouble with is its handling of commit messages
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dee/1.2.7+17.10.20170616-0ubuntu1
<robert_ancell> huh, It didn't pick up my change?
<jbicha> I had the same problem with indicator-sound where I wanted to give ricotz credit for writing the patch
<robert_ancell> Is there a bug open about that?
<jbicha> maybe if I had rebuilt after changing the commit messageâ¦
<jbicha> I don't think bileto is being actively developed
<robert_ancell> ah, that would be it
<robert_ancell> It must just copy over after the MP is approved
<jbicha> robert_ancell: sorry to keep asking you stuff on the weekend, but what do you plan to do with LP: #1640605 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1640605 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Fails to build due to failing tests" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1640605
<jbicha> should we just disable the tests?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, pretend it doesn't exist?
<robert_ancell> I would
 * robert_ancell will be glad to see the back of unity-greeter. It has much bit rot.
<robert_ancell> I hope the forked versions will tidy up and live a long life.
<jbicha> slick-greeter doesn't integrate with Ubuntu indicators but whatever
<robert_ancell> jbicha, yeah, seriously disabling the tests makes sense to me, because it's more work than it's worth to try and fix them.
<jbicha> robert_ancell: can I drop unity-greeter's recommends on lightdm too?
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I noticed there was an older fork the other day on github, not sure what it's state is
<robert_ancell> jbicha, and change to a suggests?
<jbicha> I don't think we want someone who has GNOME installed and then installs Unity to have that lightdm/gdm debconf question
<robert_ancell> jbicha, ah, sure
<robert_ancell> It's really only there for completeness, there's probably not a lot of people who install unity-greeter and wonder why it doesn't work without lightdm.
<jbicha> gnome-shell all the way back to Xenial has an alternate dependency on lightdm to stop that question from now on (the SRU just landed for that)
<robert_ancell> nice
<robert_ancell> I hear my son has woken up, that's me for until they head back to bed (though not sure if I'll be doing much tonight, I think the g-s rebase work is all done now)
<robert_ancell> jbicha, nice to catch up!
<jbicha> good :)
<robert_ancell> bye
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-11
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<Laney> ello!
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey didrocks, wb seb128!
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> seb128: good holiday? nice tan? tasty food? relaxed?
<seb128> great holidays, very nice food & relaxed
<Laney> we went to watch a friend do a running race at the weekend, and also go to the beach :>
<seb128> not so much sun though, but we mostly avoid the rain so I'm not complaining
<Laney> you could be english
<seb128> hah
<Laney> people sitting on the beach in a storm
<Laney> WE'VE COME AWAY ON HOLIDAY AND WE'LL BLOODY WELL ENJOY IT
<Laney> *eats sand filled sandwich*
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> you good didrocks?
<didrocks> Laney: my ears aren'tâ¦ It's been a nightmare for more than a week. Not a lot of sleep :/
<Laney> :((((((((
<didrocks> so, not a really good week-end
<Laney> is there a treatment option?
<didrocks> I don't feel the doctors necessarily knows
 * Laney hugs
 * didrocks hugs back
<seb128> brb, changing location
<seb128> (back online)
<didrocks> jibel_: do you plan merging the ubiquity branch yourself? I don't have access (also, you didn't review the bionic ones, is it on purpose?)
<Nafallo> o/
<Saviq> hey all, do you guys know anything about disappearing app icons in the Ubuntu session in 18.04? I think they go away on screen lock and come back on alt+f2, r
<jibel_> didrocks, merged.
<didrocks> jibel: thx! Should I prepare a changelog and upload? (same for bionic branches?)
<jibel> didrocks, Yes, you can proceed with a release in cosmic. I'll test bionic now
<didrocks> xnox: hey, how do you release the ubiquity branch? gbp buildpackage -S doesn't have the bzr hooks since you move to git?
<didrocks> jibel: release commit will be http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ddP8VKXZYV/ if you want to push it
<seb128> Saviq, launcher icons? is that specific to some icons? maybe Trevinho knows but I didn't see that issue mentioned before
<Saviq> seb128: sorry, failed to be clear, tray/indicator icons
<Saviq> but only those for apps
<seb128> so the appindicator extension
<seb128> that's a Trevinho topic for sure :)
<seb128> are those electron apps?
<jibel> Saviq, like bug 1714504 ?
<ubot5> bug 1714504 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu Artful) "App indicator is not always displayed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714504
<Trevinho> Saviq: yeah, I got them once happening, but I wasn't unable to debug things properly, as the shell was registering correctly, but something on the UI side wasn't working
<Trevinho> since then, I never had it
<Trevinho> Saviq: is that something happening for all the apps, right?
<Trevinho> or just a subset of them?
<Saviq> Trevinho: yes, they all disappear
<Saviq> and then a alt+f2 r brings them back
<Trevinho> Saviq: yeah, I saw that happening once. I saved some debugging infos, but wasn't able to understand the deeper reason in a first look, I think I saved some logs from there though
<Saviq> jibel: yeah that sounds like it
<Saviq> oh wow upgraded from 13.10, kudos
<Trevinho> Saviq: is the `org.kde.StatusNotifierWatcher` name exported, right?
<xnox> didrocks, ./debian/rules update; debuild -S
<Trevinho> Saviq: also RegisteredStatusNotifierItems has elements?
<didrocks> xnox: ok, I have to ignore .git then, thx!
<xnox> didrocks, the hook was ./debian/rules update-local -> which is same as update, but error out if any changes detected and do not touch the debian/changelog.
<Saviq> jibel, Trevinho: fwiw "Ubuntu appindicators" extension was off here - but turning it on/off doesn't seem to matter
<xnox> didrocks, i did not look into hooks yet, or how this can be done in git. Possibly simply needs to be done as part of the clean target, and detect if there is a git repo.
<Trevinho> Saviq: yeah, it's loaded anyways in the ubuntu session
<didrocks> I'm adding -I to ignore git dir, thx xnox
<xnox> hm... it should be autoignored, are we not 3.0 (native) format?!
<Trevinho> what's weird is that also after a restart and lock it doesn't work anymore, but then isn't easily reproducible
<xnox> ah
<xnox> $ cat debian/source/options
<xnox> compression = "xz"
<xnox> tar-ignore = ".bzr-builddeb"
<didrocks> xnox: yep :p I can change that
<Saviq> Trevinho: right now I have the icons so don't think checking those dbus paths would be meaningful, will report back on the bug then
<xnox> yeah, that needs changing probably, and possibly we want to use tar-append
<xnox> didrocks, thanks!
<Saviq> Trevinho: but yeah, locking the session and back - they're gone
<Trevinho> the upstream issue is https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/issues/133
<gitlab-bot> ubuntu bug 133 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator "[bug] reload gnome-shell to show icons" (comments: 2) [Open]
<ubot5> Error: Ubuntu bug 133 could not be found
<Saviq> Trevinho: and yes to both dbus questions
<Trevinho> Saviq: it happened to you to a new lock/unlock cycle?
<Saviq> Trevinho: alt+f2, r â icons show; Super+L + unlock â icons gone
<Trevinho> Saviq: and when they're gone dbus is all ok, right?
<Saviq> Trevinho: yes
<Saviq> and yeah that upstream issue seems exactly that
<Trevinho> let me hack something so we can see if we can get some more info
<olj001> hello everyone
<olj001> can someone help me with installation and running live cd? :P
<Saviq> Trevinho: on a related note, is there a way to get chrome-gnome-shell work with snapped firefox? I suppose we're missing a gnome-shell interface?
<didrocks> jibel: scratch my request for pastebin, as there are multiple commits now, I'll just push a branch so that you can pull/push
<didrocks> annoying to not have those ubiquity commit rights :/
<didrocks> jibel: just pull and push from didrocks/master, it's based on master, and what's now in cosmic: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+ref/master
<jibel> didrocks, ask to be in ubuntu-installer team
<didrocks> yeah, let me request for team inclusion on launchpad
<Trevinho> Saviq: if you do Alt
<Trevinho> Alt+f2 -> "lg" and enter
<Trevinho> then you do this
<Trevinho> imports.ui.main.panel._rightBox.get_children().forEach((e) => { print(e.get_child().get_children()[0].get_children()) })
<Trevinho> what you get on your journalctl /usr/bin/gnome-shell ?
<Saviq> Trevinho: e.get_child() is null
<Trevinho> mhmh, it's like the whole panel area isn't showing properly
<Trevinho> can you install an extension such as https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1162/emoji-selector/ and see if that's hidden?
<Trevinho> Saviq: speaking of extensions though I've to check, chrome-gnome-shell can accept stuff from stdin too and that could break things if called from a confined place
<Trevinho> Saviq: anyway from inspector you can also try to navigate
<Trevinho> justs
<Trevinho> write `imports.ui.main.panel._rightBox.get_children()`
<Trevinho> then from the results go deep to see if you can find presence of AppIndicator Instances
<Trevinho> to that call returns
<Trevinho> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tpcnFoaY/
<Trevinho> in that case could be that a child isn't actually added as actor, as for sure the appindicator instance (the model) was created when I tried
<Trevinho> kenvandine: hey, please check https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/133
<gitlab-bot> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 133 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "desktop-exports: cleanup XDG dirs management" (comments: 0) [Open]
<kenvandine> Trevinho, will do!
<Laney> break things, black screen for a few hours, hackhackhackhackhack, see gdm again
<Laney> this is life atm
<Laney> the joy of seeing a user switcher after being deep in the mine
<Laney> it's a sad life
<kenvandine> :)
<didrocks> jibel: and here is the ubiquity bionic SRU in UNAPPROVED: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/+git/ubiquity/+ref/bionic, same, just pull and push to the "bionic" branch please
<k_alam> jbicha: Please review my merge requests for Unity. They are still pending. Thanks.
<jbicha> k_alam: sorry, I'm not working on Unity right now. Please at least make sure they show up on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<k_alam> jbicha: Ok. But only one is showing there. Not sure why..... Any idea if anyone else can review ?
<jbicha> make sure there is a bug for the issue and that ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed
<jbicha> you can try asking in #ubuntu-devel too
<jbicha> I doubt I'm the only one to have done sponsoring for you in the pastâ¦
<jbicha> and bye :|
<jbicha> reposting in case you missed my replies
<jbicha> make sure there is a bug for the issue and that ubuntu-sponsors is subscribed
<jbicha> you can try asking in #ubuntu-devel too
<jbicha> I doubt I'm the only one to have done sponsoring for you in the pastâ¦
<k_alam> jbicha: I just subscribed those ....but it is still not on qa page?...may be it takes time to update?
<jbicha> yes, the page is automatically updated periodically, it should show up in a few hours there at least
<k_alam> Ok. Thanks. :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-12
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Saviq> morning
<didrocks> hey seb128, Saviq
<seb128> hey Saviq, re didrocks
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today? did you recover?
<willcooke> hey seb128, I'm "ok", I dont think I'll be around all day today, but want to get caught up on email and stuff and then probably take off again around lunch.  Would you mind running the meeting?
<didrocks> hey willcooke, I don't read any "thhhh", so sounds like your speech is back to normal :)
<willcooke> :))
<willcooke> No hangouts for me
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> willcooke, I can do, sure
<willcooke> thanjks
<willcooke> (my typing isn't any better)
<willcooke> So yeah, the whole process was pretty quick, maybe 20 mins, but then it was still bleeding in the evening, so I have to go back in and get some stitches.  Again, easy enough.
<didrocks> were you fully asleep when they did it?
<willcooke> But today the drugs are all worn off and I'm feeling a bit swollen and sore, and my neck hurts for some reason
<willcooke> nah, just a local
<willcooke> quite a lot of them though
<willcooke> I shut my eyes so I couldnt see the needle :))
<didrocks> heh, wise choice
<willcooke> *have to go back in -> *had* to go back in.  i.e. all done
<willcooke> It was a lot less scary, drawnout and painful than I was expecting though.
<willcooke> Just need to make sure I dont get an infection
<willcooke> anyway, on to nicer topics, how was your holiday seb128?
<didrocks> yeah, look out for infections, that's the worst part (but now that it's been 2 days, you would surely know already if you got oneâ¦)
<willcooke> oh really?  wow
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> yeah, when I got some, it was really quick, like a day after
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> willcooke, good mostly, baby got a gastroenteritis on the friday we started the holidays though, he threw up in the car like 3 times and managed to get us as well ... but after that the holidays were great :) a bit of rain but otherwise weather was nice, we managed to relax and had great food & walked around a lot :)
<willcooke> oh boy, sorry to hear that seb128, glad it worked out
<Laney> hey didrocks!
<seb128> hum, we started converting some VCSes to git?
 * seb128 notices that by random pocking but didn't see anything in his emails&co backlog
<Laney> It's not random, I converted things when I worked on them.
<seb128> my poking was random :p
<seb128> I meant that I saw one of those by "luck"
<seb128> or just because I crossed it while following other things
<Laney> OK, how do you suggest they get noted?
<Laney> Vcs fields should be up to date
<seb128> I think it would be good to have a post stating that we started on that process
<Laney> ok
<seb128> and maybe a summary of how those are bootstrapped
<seb128> so different people do it the same way
<seb128> and we don't end up having things slightly different depending on who did the conversion
<seb128> I don't know if we have a "how too migrate a vcs" today?
<Laney> I don't have time to write that up
<Laney> If someone other than me wants to do that, talk to me
<Laney> I'll walk them through it and then we can write it up together
<seb128> k
<seb128> I'm going to mention it during the meeting
<seb128> let's see if there is any taker
<Laney> mutter and gnome-shell would be good ones to update if someone wants to work on updates.
<Laney> Olivier was doing it but he's off now so someone else should pick that up
<didrocks> yeah, he started doing it, but those guys with childrenâ¦ :)
<seb128> Trevinho was keen to work on that
 * didrocks still sees ubuntu-report sadly in unapproved for days :p sil2100, did you get a chance starting reviewing it?
<didrocks> (and hey!)
<seb128> does anyone here has thunderbolt3 device to verify bug #1773378 ?
<ubot5> bug 1773378 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Bionic) "New thunderbolt panel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773378
<sil2100> didrocks: hey! I did, left a comment aaages ago on one of them and still didn't get any answer :<
<sil2100> (by 'ages ago' I actually meant 'a week ago' ;p)
<didrocks> sil2100: on one of the bug?
<sil2100> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-report/+bug/1765614
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1765614 in ubuntu-report (Ubuntu) "Incorrect regex for GPU info" [Undecided,Triaged]
<didrocks> sil2100: need to check my filters it seemsâ¦
<didrocks> I didn't see it, sorry
<didrocks> answering right now
<sil2100> Thanks! :)
<didrocks> sil2100: so, you don't copy anymore from bionic to cosmic?
<didrocks> as at the start of the cycles, when unchanged, this is normally what's done
<didrocks> if you prefer me to do another upload for cosmic, I'm fine
<didrocks> I think those rules should be written down though :)
<didrocks> last mail on this bug for me was: "Didier Roche (didrocks) has assigned this bug to you for ubuntu-report in Ubuntu Bionic:"
<didrocks> ah, just after you commented
<didrocks> that explains :)
<sil2100> didrocks: it's a bit too late in the cycle I'd say, and SRU members generally don't do automatical forward copies ;) At least I never heard of this being something this team does without explicit request
<didrocks> sil2100: so yeah, keep me posted if you do the binary copy or if you prefer a separate upload for cosmic.
<sil2100> I think this was the main reason why other SRU members didn't touch this package
<didrocks> ok, let me upload 1.1.0cosmic thus!
<sil2100> I mean, I might still not know all the practices in the SRU world, but I'd suppose that if it was something only I didn't know about then some other SRU member would review the package and forward copied already
<didrocks> yeah, they could have warned though :)
<sil2100> Seeing that the package was ready for quite a while - which is a bit strange, since yeah, this could have just been published to bionic and bin copied at the start of the cycle ;p
<didrocks> yeahâ¦
<didrocks> anyway, let's move forward
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks! I'll review and accept it in a moment then after you upload to cosmic o/
 * didrocks debugs why the gdb prebuild hook tells me I'm not in a git repoâ¦
<didrocks> which indeed, I'm not in the build area, so why does he wants to execute this? (and why not an issue in other projectsâ¦)
<didrocks> sil2100: uploaded
<sil2100> didrocks: thanks! Approving once I get this one thing finished
<didrocks> sil2100: thanks a lot :)
<Trevinho> Laney: as per mutter and gs on git, I've done them already... I can push the branches for carmic and bionic after some cleaning up
<Laney> hello Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi Laney
<Laney> ok, I'll look at them
<seb128> ok
<seb128> it's meeting time!
<didrocks> hey o/
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 12 13:30:14 2018 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha (out), jamesh (out), jibel/heber (out), kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN (out), seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> o/
<Nafallo> morning :-)
<seb128> seems like we don't have many people awake
<seb128> still digesting their lunches? ;)
<seb128> anyway, let's try to get start
<seb128> started even
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, hey, are you around? I didn't see you active today yet
<seb128> I guess not
<seb128> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: dgadomski
<seb128> dgadomski, hey
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> Sadly I have nothing desktop-related this week to share
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<seb128> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> o/
<didrocks> * Telemetry:
<didrocks>   - discuss and review with j_ibel about metrics, how we should group and display themâ¦
<didrocks>   - uploaded ubiquity + SRU with relevant modifications to telemetry for 18.04.1 and OEM mode.
<didrocks> * Apport
<didrocks>   - look at existing apport/whoopsie integration. Raised some options of what we could do to have a "Remember this answer" in the UI (complex because button names changes in whoopsie, and it has dozen of different UI configuration it can present).
<didrocks>   - implement my proposal, sent an email for review before going further, meaning adapting all UI tests to the new layouts.
<didrocks>   - fix apport still proposing sending crashes when launched manually even if the system prevents reporting.
<didrocks> * Communitheme:
<didrocks>   - investigate Qt theming options. We have basically 3 options:
<didrocks>     + depending on GTK2 (using the gtk2 theming), with one official Qt package from Qt usptream.
<didrocks>     + using kvantum engine (existing communitheme for it). However: it's one more version of tge theme to maintain, the engine is a mostly a single file with 18k lines, upstream doesn't want to relicense the engine (a library) under LGPL. It's currently GPL and so, not compatible.
<didrocks>     + Have a theme written without any engine, basing on Adwaita-Qt: more work.
<didrocks>   From this, I would be tempted to go with #1, and then revisit once we can remove gtk2.
<didrocks>   - other sync up on upcoming name and logo for communitheme.
<didrocks> * Misc:
<didrocks>   - a community member did some small comments on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/merge_requests/2, fixed them. No news from upstream still.
<didrocks>   - 360 reviews
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 2 in gnome-shell "Volume slider overdrive" (comments: 21) [Opened]
<didrocks>   - some sponsoring
<didrocks> .
<seb128> didrocks, the theming question ... unsure what's best, is there a community hub topic for it?
<didrocks> yes, one sec
<seb128> gtk2 is mostly out of the default installation at this point
<didrocks> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-testing-communitheme-qt/6375/
<seb128> k, thanks
<didrocks> let's discuss that afterwards?
<seb128> thunderbird is the only thing that kept gtk2 on the iso
<didrocks> yeah, that's why I'm torned
<seb128> but yeah, let's discuss after the meeting
<seb128> thanks didrocks
<seb128> #topic jamesh
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: jamesh
<seb128> snapd/evolution-data-server:
<seb128> * contacts and calendar interfaces were merged to master last week:
<seb128> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5184
<seb128> snapd/portals:
<seb128> * a branch adding auto-start of the document portal has got review
<gitlab-bot> snapcore bug (Pull request) 5184 in snapd "interfaces: add {contacts,calendar}-service interfaces" (comments: 4) [Closed]
<seb128> approval, but still needs to be merged:
<seb128> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5271
<gitlab-bot> snapcore bug (Pull request) 5271 in snapd "cmd/snap: attempt to start the document portal if running with a session bus" (comments: 3) [Open]
<seb128> * with this branch merged, we have everything needed for file
<seb128> open/save portals to work on an 18.04 install using the X11 session
<seb128> (provided xdg-desktop-portal{,-gtk} packages are installed).
<seb128> * Wayland support requires a mutter patch:
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1774560 -- the
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1774560 in xdg-desktop-portal-gtk (Ubuntu) "xdg-desktop-portal-gtk malfunctions on Wayland: wl_display@1.error(zxdg_imported_v1@36, 0, "set_parent_of was called with an invalid child")" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> patch is included in 3.28.2, so if we plan to push that out as an
<seb128> update it might not be worth patching this independently.
<seb128> snapd/snap-uri-handler:
<seb128> * I haven't quite got this to the stage of a PR: I am putting together
<seb128> a stub snap command that can handle "snap://" URIs by installing the
<seb128> gnome-software snap, and then invoking it with the given URI.  This is
<seb128> intended as a way to handle Ubuntu systems without gnome-software
<seb128> installed, and non-Ubuntu systems without a snap capable
<seb128> gnome-software.  I am still testing out the implementation, and should
<seb128> have a PR ready for review shortly.
<seb128> #topic jibel/heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: jibel/heber
<seb128> - Reviewed MPs for ubiquity in Cosmic and Bionic (currently in bionic-proposed for verification)
<seb128> - Maintenance of the CI infrastructure (disks are filling up with leftovers from dead jobs, still investigating)
<seb128> - SRU verification of gnome-software in bionic
<seb128> - ubuntu-report: continued the work on the dashboard
<seb128> - Bug reports brought to our attention by Foundations for 18.04.1
<seb128>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/1767468
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1767468 in nux (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04, then uninstalling unity disables hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1752938
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1752938 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Upgrading Ubuntu 18.04 disables GPU hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> - Bug blocking automated tests:
<seb128>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1771751
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1771751 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "autopilot tests - default installation fails in plugininstall with "permission denied" messages" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> - No rls bugs
<seb128> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: kenvandine
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> * Prepared screenshots and draft of blog post for Hyper-V desktop image
<kenvandine> * Updated slot name in gtk-common-themes from gtk3-themes to gtk-3-themes as requested on the auto-connection request https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/auto-connection-of-gtk3-themes-icon-themes-and-sound-themes-interfaces/5118
<kenvandine> * rls bug #1773213 uploaded gnome-online-accounts privacy policy link fix to cosmic and SRU to bionic
<ubot5> bug 1773213 in gnome-online-accounts (Ubuntu Bionic) "U1 login dialog missing link to the privacy policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773213
<kenvandine> * Currently updating all the GNOME snaps to handle the slot rename to gtk-3-themes
<kenvandine> â¾
<didrocks> auto-connection \o/
<kenvandine> didrocks, it's been granted :)
<didrocks> communitheme core team is very happy, we discussed it privately :)
<didrocks> yeah!
<kenvandine> great
<c-lobrano> oh, yes we are :D
<seb128> thanks kenvandine
<seb128> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: Laney
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> he might be having another day without a working graphical session while fighting systemd user sessions?
<Laney> nah
<seb128> ah!
<Laney> â¢ some more iterations of systemd stuff, making wayland work, improving the startup program to close any lingering units, restructuring everything
<Trevinho> :-D
<Laney> â¢ autopkgtest - rabbitmq got an out of memory again, tried to make our stuff more robust against that by making the messages persistent (delivery_mode=2)
<Laney> â¢ internal review stuff
<Laney> small list, big content
<Laney> â
<Laney> xz -9
<seb128> thanks Laney, no spamming, way to go!
<seb128> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> just came back from 2 weeks holidays yesterday, trying to catch up with things while dealing with HR reviews
<seb128> </start of week>
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<seb128> no tkamppeter?
<seb128> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<seb128> I didn't get his summary
<seb128> kenvandine, do you have it?
<kenvandine> no, he's still traveling
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> sprint would be his
<kenvandine> :)(
<seb128> I guessed so, would be nice to have some details about what happened during that week but that's not for today I guess
<seb128> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, hey :)
<Trevinho> hey, give me 1 sec pleas :)
<seb128> 1
<seb128> 0
<seb128> done
<seb128> Trevinho, summary?  ;)
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed some bash issues on the snap desktop helpers, and some refactory (plus reviews)
<Trevinho>   - https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/133
<Trevinho> Â· Cherry-pick of gdm3 upstream fix:
<Trevinho>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+git/gdm3/+merge/347812
<Trevinho>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+git/gdm3/+merge/347813
<Trevinho> Â· Prepared a fractional scaling PPA:
<Trevinho>   - https://launchpad.net/~3v1n0/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-fractional-scaling/+packages
<gitlab-bot> ubuntu bug (Pull request) 133 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "desktop-exports: cleanup XDG dirs management" (comments: 0) [Open]
<Trevinho> plus...
<kenvandine> Trevinho, thx for those fixes!
<Trevinho> Â· Fractional scaling fixes, more tests and some refactory (since I was there)...
<Trevinho> Â· Nautilus rework for recursive query flags
<Trevinho>   https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/merge_requests/249/
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 249 in nautilus "Recursive query flags" (comments: 23) [3. Review Ready, Opened]
<tkamppeter> hi
<Trevinho> Â· Other nautilus fixes here and there (various commits in that MR plus others)
<Trevinho> g-s reviews
<Trevinho> ðï¸ (forgot other things, sorry I was late)
<seb128> thanks Trevinho
<seb128> #topic rls bugs reviews
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: rls bugs reviews
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html#
<seb128> bug #1752938
<ubot5> bug 1752938 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Upgrading Ubuntu 18.04 disables GPU hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752938
<seb128> (the other ones are assigned to people that are not around and didn't send a status update for those)
<Laney> they should be nominated
<didrocks> Trevinho: as you did the git branch (I can't find it in launchpad, under ~ubuntu-desktop), do you take back from where Olivier stopped for the GNOME Shell/Mutter updates?
<didrocks> (those are on the list)
<seb128> Laney, bug #1765261 is for example
<ubot5> bug 1765261 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Bionic) "[regression] Ubuntu 18.04 login screen rejects a valid password on first attempt (if starting with Shift key). Usually works on the second attempt" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765261
<seb128> or nominated to cosmic you mean?
<seb128> it is for bionic
<Laney> no, untagged maybe then
<Laney> i.e. the incoming list ought to be kept clean
<seb128> right
<seb128> let's untag then
<seb128> k, done
<seb128> then bug #1752938
<ubot5> bug 1752938 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Upgrading Ubuntu 18.04 disables GPU hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1752938
 * seb128 reads the comments
<Trevinho> didrocks: oh, no... I did them already since long time (even before bionic) so i was using them
<didrocks> Trevinho: are you going to tackle the udpates then or should I?
<Trevinho> didrocks: you mean the point releases?
<seb128> seems like a duplicate of bug #1767468
<ubot5> bug 1767468 in nux (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04, then uninstalling unity disables hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767468
<seb128> which is bug #1768610
<ubot5> bug 1768610 in nux (Ubuntu) "leftover conffile forces GNOME is software rendering" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768610
<Trevinho> didrocks: I've branches based on *.2 for both
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ that's assigned to you, what's the status?
<seb128> I raised it before going in holidays
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, I remember the ping, I didn't remember I was the asignee :|
<seb128> :/
<seb128> please have a look/get that fix uploaded, we need that for .1
<Laney> nominate it
<Laney> imho
<seb128> yes
<seb128> I untagged the other ones since they are all targetting bionic and assigned
<seb128> let's target that one
<seb128> and that's it for incoming
<Trevinho> yeah... ok, I also I've lots of other things for .1, so... It's not easy to get them all done.
<didrocks> so, I think we should get the G-S/mutter updates sorted out
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<didrocks> Trevinho: are you taking back osomon's tasks and get that sponsored?
<seb128> I guess that's part of the catchup I didn't do it
<seb128> Olivier was working on those before being off?
<didrocks> or should I? Sounds like you have a branch ready, unsure how much this is a duplicate of Olivier's work though
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> *didn't do yet
<Trevinho> didrocks: as said I've things more or less done already
<didrocks> Trevinho: duplication :/ we discussed it at last meeting though
<didrocks> but ok, please have a look at what he's done
<Trevinho> didrocks: well, thing is that was just the way I'm using for cherry-picking stuff, so it has been the usual way for making packages for me since some time
<seb128> k, so it looks like the -tracking list has all its unassigned bugs as fix commited
<didrocks> Trevinho: so, assigning bugs to you?
<Trevinho> didrocks: but a part the fact I was also keeping the bzr stuff around for me, it's basically just https://gitlab.gnome.org/3v1n0/gnome-shell/commits/ubuntu/bionic/resource-scale
<didrocks> Trevinho: please steal them :)
<didrocks> why on gitlab? didn't we tell we were using launchpad? /me all confused
<seb128> didrocks, Trevinho, let's wrap the meeting and we can discuss that
<didrocks> yeah
<Trevinho> didrocks: it's my branch, for temporary work...
<seb128> I don't think there is anything to do on -tracking
<seb128> everyone is fine with that?
<Trevinho> didrocks: that's just an hosting I've used... not the proposal or anything else
<Trevinho> didrocks: it's just I'm used to do git push gnome-mine :D
<Trevinho> as I keep both downstream and upstream stuff int the same local repo
<didrocks> seb128: +1 for -tracking
<Trevinho> but... a part that repo has also the resource scale stuff since will asked them for a PPA, the rest is just upstream + ubuntu patches applied, and fixing someone else
<seb128> k
<Laney> seems ok to me
<seb128> so Till emailed me his status update meanwhile
<seb128> so
<seb128> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<seb128> - cpdb-libs, cpdb-backend-cups: Investigation of code to do the improvements needed for getting these packages into Main.
<seb128> - Google Summer of Code 2018: Mentoring of the students on Common Print Dialog Backends and printer auto-selection by job.
<seb128> - Google Summer of Code 2018: First round of student evaluations, all OpenPrinting students have passed.
<seb128> - Performance review.
<seb128> - Bugs.
<seb128> #topic aob
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: aob
<seb128> other things to discuss?
<didrocks> nothing meetingly, there is Qt/Communitheme we should discuss after the G-S update thingy
<andyrock> hey guys I just woke up
<andyrock> sorry I missed the meeting
<seb128> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-06-12 | Current topic: andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, your turn :)
<andyrock> * 360 reviews
<andyrock> * Updated fix for LP: #1773213
<andyrock> * Updated fix for LP: #1770686
<andyrock> * Updated MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/software-properties/new-auth-dialog/+merge/345483
<andyrock> * Self review
<andyrock> * Still working on new auth dialog in gnome-software
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1773213 in gnome-online-accounts (Ubuntu Bionic) "U1 login dialog missing link to the privacy policy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1773213
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1770686 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "Hide livepatch widgets in flavors without an online account panel in gnome-control-center" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770686
<seb128> thanks andyrock
<seb128> and that's a wrap, let's discuss theme and shell updates then
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 12 14:07:15 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-06-12-13.30.moin.txt
<seb128> thanks everyone
<Nafallo> thanks :-)
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> Trevinho: so, back at my question, when I asked if you are going to handle the .2 updates, it seems it's a no, and that the branch isn't suitable for launchpad, or are you?
<didrocks> I'm just trying to get if I should do it or not :p
<Trevinho> didrocks: I said I was ok to do it :)
<Laney> haha
<Trevinho> didrocks: the branch is totally suitable for launchpad (I'd move to git anyway at this point)
<didrocks> Trevinho: ok, so, please look at what osomon did, there is maybe some stuff to pick from his work
<Trevinho> yes I noted that :)
<didrocks> and so, steal the bug assignee to you :)
<didrocks> thanks!
<Trevinho> didrocks: the reason the branch wasn't in lauchpad is just that I did it for different purpuses, so I just pushed it in the gitlab instance, as I prefer to read things there from a web ui, but it's just a remote, nothing else
<didrocks> Trevinho: no worry, just push them there, once Laney checked them :)
<didrocks> I just don't want to trash osomon's work and have correct assignee tracking
<Trevinho> no, I won't..
<didrocks> ok, my second question was for c-lobrano, do you have a hilight on communitheme? :p
<c-lobrano> didrocks: hehe, I always forget to remove it :D, sorry to have interrupted the meeting
<didrocks> no worry, was funny :)
<didrocks> c-lobrano: get an hilight on the new secret name :p
<c-lobrano> :D
<Nafallo> secretnametheme sounds worse!
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> nonameyettheme
<didrocks> Nafallo: no, it's secretcommunithemename
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> ok, so who is interested in discussing Qt theming?
 * Nafallo hides quickly
 * didrocks feels the general excitement on that topic
<seb128> well, I would not depends on gtk2 at this point
<didrocks> so, that left us with one option
<seb128> option 3 seemed nice, but it's more work
<seb128> so that's easy to say when you are not doing the work :p
<didrocks> yes
<didrocks> and I don't know who is going to do it TBH :p
<didrocks> I think forking from adwaita-qt is doable
<didrocks> BUT
<didrocks> adwaita-qt is GPL
<didrocks> when it's a lib, so technicallyâ¦
<seb128> it's basically a new theme to do?
<didrocks> indeed
<didrocks> then, I don't know if we can consider this to be a way to draw something
<didrocks> and so, GPL is fineâ¦
<didrocks> seb128: https://github.com/FedoraQt/adwaita-qt
<didrocks> then, Qt has some mechanism via QGNOMEPlatform (to package) to match the current gtk theme with the Qt theme to use
<didrocks> if you look at style/ there is quite some code
<seb128> if we depends on gtk2 it basically means no work?
<didrocks> yes, it's MIRing qt5-style-plugins
<didrocks> removing the Qt dep
<didrocks> (as we did at the time with indicators)
<didrocks> to not pull the whole Qt
<didrocks> and with an env variable, it's using the gtk2 theme
<didrocks> it's what is maintained as part of the Qt project
<didrocks> as long as we have thunderbird pulling GTK2, it's ok, but it's not future-proof
<seb128> it's a bit tricky to know what should pull in the gtk2/style plugins in that case
<seb128> but that's not a new issue
<seb128> so yeah, maybe that's the best for now
<seb128> we can figure out another plan later on if needed
<seb128> or see if someone volunteer to work on a new theme without the engine
<didrocks> yes, I guess at least for 18.10, that's a good compromise
<didrocks> but yeah, would be awesome to have logic like "if you have this and that installed, and only in that case, please install this"
<didrocks> not a new issue though, as you told :)
<Nafallo> seb128: I suppose I should have a thunderbolt 3 thing to try your gnome-control-center SRU?
<seb128> Nafallo, yes, you need a device to auth
<Nafallo> I've tried a little so far. installed it and apparently I have to fix my BIOS settings :-)
<Nafallo> hmm. I wonder if the Dell docks I need to buy for my XPS13 regardless sooner or later uses that...
 * Nafallo starts with BIOS settings regardless
<Trevinho> tjaalton: hey, can we get https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=d7297b00444b0e2cd936fbfb08206a575ab8c29d cherry-picked (and in bionic)? :)
<Trevinho> should finally fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/883319
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 883319 in X.Org X server "xrandr --scale restricts area in which mouse moves" [High,Fix released]
<tjaalton> Trevinho: 1.20 is in proposed
<tjaalton> should include that?
<Trevinho> tjaalton: ah, great... yeah it seems it's in 1.20
<Trevinho> tjaalton: when you've a moment also consider https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106432 (I've sent it to the ML too, waiting...)
<ubot5> Freedesktop bug 106432 in Lib/ICE "authutil: save IceAuthFile on XDG_RUNTIME_DIR if set" [Normal,New]
<Nafallo> seb128: bah. can't test. looks like I've got a different issue with my thunderbolt controller :-/
<seb128> Nafallo, thanks for trying
<Nafallo> seb128: I didn't say I'd give up ;-)
<Nafallo> but it might take a little longer :-P
<tjaalton> Trevinho: I don't see it on the list, have you subscribed?
<tjaalton> the bugzilla is a black hole for patches.. but they'll migrate to gitlab soon-ish
<Trevinho> tjaalton: mh no, it's in review queue I guess
<tjaalton> moderation queue, yes
<Trevinho> Laney: https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/gdm/merge_requests/2
<gitlab-bot> GNOME bug (Merge request) 2 in gdm "debian/patches/daemon-gdm-session-record.c-open-close-the-utmp-database.patch" (comments: 0) [Opened]
<tsimonq2> Trevinho: Just an FYI on https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3286
<Trevinho> tsimonq2: looks good, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-13
<duflu> Morning seb128
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> hey duflu didrocks (and bbiab, dropping kid for the day)
<jibel> Good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> duflu, about bug 1775743, ubuntu is the only OS on the machine ?
<ubot5> bug 1775743 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[regression] Cosmic daily images 20180606-11 install but then never boot (stuck in grub)." [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775743
<duflu> jibel, yes I've tried 3 different laptops. All completely wiped each time
<jibel> could you attach the logs from /var/log/installer?
<duflu> jibel, next time :)
<duflu> It's a very time consuming bug
<jibel> I know :)
<duflu> jibel, if you have older images handy I can probably bisect it down to an exact image by tomorrow
<sil2100> duflu: hey! As mentioned on the bug, last week we did release a new grub2 package which potentially might have regressed something
<sil2100> Since there were some architectural changes there
<sil2100> duflu: but what worries me is that I cannot reproduce it on a VM
<sil2100> jibel: when you tested this on a VM, did you install -desktop as well?
<duflu> That doesn't worry me. I wouldn't be able to do most of my job if I was confined to VMs. So many hardware issues
<sil2100> It worries me since I don't have an easy way to reproduce it, and the fact that it works on my VM makes it even harder to explain
<sil2100> Since the changes we did should either work for a setup or not
<jibel> sil2100, I've no problem with cosmic on VMs
<jibel> and yes I tried desktop, it's the only image I use
<sil2100> hm, I suppose it might be a bit difficult to create a one-off image with all the grub2 bits reverted, especially since there's the signed bits
<sil2100> Since most of the logic changes were in shim-signed and grub2-signed
<jibel> duflu, is secure boot enabled?
<jibel> sil2100, which version of grub introduced these changes?
<duflu> jibel, usually no. Because these machines I only use for Ubuntu. But sometimes yet
<duflu> yes
<seb128> hey again desktopers :)
<jibel> hey again seb128
<seb128> lut jibel, how are you?
<jibel> seb128, I'm fine, thanks.
<jibel> and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<sil2100> jibel: grub2-signed 1.96 and shim-signed 1.36
<jibel> sil2100, 1.96 only affects efi systems?
<sil2100> Potentially these changes should only affect UEFI installations, yes
<jibel> okay, let me try in a vm with uefi then
<sil2100> I only tried server on both BIOS and UEFI on a VM and they worked, so maybe you'll have more luck with desktop
<sil2100> hmmm
<jibel> sil2100, I confirm it's reproducible in a uefi vm
<sil2100> Might not be grub indeed as per what duflu mentioned, looks like it got broken a bit earlier
<jibel> sil2100, with latest cosmic desktop image
<sil2100> jibel: thanks
<sil2100> Strange I didn't have the issues with the subiquity server image, but maybe I need to re-test
 * sil2100 will do that now
<jibel> sil2100, for you or foundations?
<jibel> sil2100, subiquity uses a different method of installation afaik
<sil2100> jibel: yeah, I'll try both subiquity and regular debian-installer based server now, maybe it's not related to grub but something touching the installer?
<sil2100> I would really not want my first ever grub2 landing to cause big issues as such
<sil2100> ;)
<jibel> sil2100, I bet you can reproduce with d-i
 * didrocks realizes we didn't talk about git at the team meeting and documentation
<didrocks> I'll handle it I guess, finding one exemple like gnome-session, and writing docs on it, like how to update, how to apply a patch, udpate a patchâ¦
<didrocks> basing on debian's doc and how to convert for us in launchpad
<seb128> didrocks, right, I remembered after the meeting yesterday, we were already busy discussing some other aob with the theme and the gnome-shell update
<seb128> thanks didrocks!
<didrocks> yw seb128 ;)
<seb128> Laney, ^ if you want to help him a bit
<Nafallo> morning
<didrocks> hey Nafallo
<seb128> duflu, just as a fyi I'm still dealing with post-holidays catching up and performance reviews&co and don't have anything for the bluetooth meeting so I'm going to skip that one
<didrocks> I have a question on bluetooth! but unrelated to your meeting :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> ask!
<duflu> seb128, yes I was about to say that. I have been away 4 days, and koza is an "unknown" on the invite
<seb128> duflu, let's skip
<didrocks> is there a way to create a rule or so so that you rfcomm bind automatically when a particular device is connected?
<didrocks> like, avoiding "sudo rfcomm bind â¦"
<didrocks> which requires root
<duflu> seb128, on that note though I do have bluez 5.50 awaiting sponsorship some time
<didrocks> (and then, there is the bug duflu triaged that /dev/rfcomm* doesn't have correct permissions)
<duflu> didrocks, I don't know that command myself. What bug do you mean?
<didrocks> duflu: bug #1014992
<ubot5`> bug 1014992 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Cannot use rfcomm as regular user. Permission denied." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014992
<didrocks> and I would like to avoid "sudo" in rfcomm connect 1 <addrr>
<didrocks> their fix is to disable modemmanager, but doesn't cover the create a /dev/rfcomm part as non root
<duflu> jibel, it sounds like we are skipping the meeting
<duflu> Morning willcooke. We ere about to skip the meeting unless you want it?
<duflu> +w
<willcooke> morning, +1
 * willcooke isnt really with it yet anyway
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<seb128> able to speak today? ;)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Bit better today, still a bit achey, but fine
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> but I slept funny and now my neck /.shoulder is playing uop
<willcooke> up
<willcooke> it's an old injury and flares up every now and then
<willcooke> Don't get old kids, it sucks
<Laney> hi
<willcooke> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hi willcooke seb128
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> alright thanks, been potting some new houseplants
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> what's up homies?
<didrocks> nothing special, yourself?
<Laney> not a lot!
<sil2100> jibel: as expected, I was able to install and boot with subiquity on UEFI no problem - but of course I could reproduce it with the d-i installer for server
<sil2100> jibel: so yeah
<sil2100> At least I know what was wrong with my testing
<duflu> didrocks, I can't add any expertise to that bug other than if it needs progressing then upstream reports go in https://bugzilla.kernel.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Drivers&component=Bluetooth
<didrocks> duflu: ok, thanks for looking!
<didrocks> weird that we can't pair RFCOMM bluetooth device via g-c-c
<Laney> didrocks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/git I just added some basic thing about converting a repo for the first time
<Nafallo> morning willcooke :-)
<willcooke> o/
<Nafallo> morning Laney
<Laney> hey Nafallo
<seb128> duflu, oh, I just saw your mention of bluez waiting for sponsoring, I can have a look to that today
<didrocks> ok, I'll edit those as needed
<jibel> sil2100, good, I'll let this bug with you then since you broke the image ;)
<seb128> didrocks, talk to Bastien? :p
<duflu> seb128, yeah it was in the status report I didn't send due to leave yesterday. No hurry so I didn't push the point
<didrocks> seb128: yeah ;)
 * jibel notes the testing gap and to add uefi to automated installer tests
<duflu> didrocks, and no bluez is not a kernel component. It only shares the kernel tracker
<sil2100> jibel: I did not! As per duflu's comment it was broken before my upload! ;p
 * duflu shrugs
 * duflu shrugs at didrocks at least
<didrocks> argh :p
<duflu> sil2100, over the coarse of my long weekend that actually wasn't the most annoying installation bug I found. There is also bug 1776578 :)
<ubot5`> bug 1776578 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installation stuck at "Installing the 'grub2' package..." every time. Kernel crash every time." [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1776578
<duflu> -coarse +course
<seb128> k, changing location, bbiab
<willcooke> didrocks, hey!  I just noticed that on my x270 I can enabled over-amplification, but the slider doesnt allow me to go > 100%.  If I plug headphones in, then I can.  Is that expected?
<willcooke> Likely something funny in the drivers here, since dock audio is a bit funny anyway
<didrocks> willcooke: it's only if the output allows to have over amplifications, some don't
<willcooke> didrocks, so would you expect it to be greyed out if not supported (the on/off button that is)  - or -  it would be there, but do nothing?
<didrocks> willcooke: the thing is that the option is global
<didrocks> so, if you have multiple output devices, it will impact them all
<willcooke> got it, thanks didrocks
<didrocks> in the proposed set of patches, I tried to ahve it per device
<didrocks> that was nacked by upstream
<didrocks> (it complexifies the logic a lot ofc, you ahve to track devicesâ¦)
<willcooke> kk, nw
<didrocks> yeah, not the best UI :/
<didrocks> Laney: is there any reason why we push upstream/latest to launchpad? Do you know if this is used to rebuild the tarball which is in pristine-tar or should we just keep it locally?
<Laney> well the upstream tags are made with reference to commits on this branch
<Laney> so the next person to do work needs to be working from the same place
<didrocks> ah right, for further cherry-picking
<didrocks> so, it's more to get everything in one place
<Laney> it'll go onto the upstream branch, merge the git tag and then the delta from the tarball, and make an upstream/x.y.z tag out of that
<Laney> so you need it around to make that work
<didrocks> yeah, that's what I meant by "help reconstructing the tarball"
<Laney> righto
<Laney> but I think that it probably actually uses the tags for that
<Laney> not that I've looked :-)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> ok, sounds good
<didrocks> we should try to pull and push from different locations automatically for that branches
 * didrocks looks if we can set that in config
<Laney> you can do that somehow
<Laney> so that git push <branchname> works
<didrocks> yeah, I saw a global config
<didrocks> trying to find a local one or one we can add to the repository
<didrocks> ahah! branch.<name>.pushRemote sounds promising
<Laney> it's local config though I think
<didrocks> I think it's in .git
<didrocks> let me try
<Laney> I'm sort of OK with that - if you `git push -u' then it'll set it up for you
<didrocks> as long as we don't have to manually git push for upstream/latest, I'm fine
<didrocks> or we will never have it updated
<Laney> why not?
<didrocks> because people will pull from matest to update upstream/latest
<didrocks> and will never think about updating the launchpad upstream/latest branch
<Laney> git push lp ubuntu/master upstream/latest pristine-tar ubuntu/<tag> upstream/<tag>
<Laney> that's my muscle memory
<didrocks> maybe yours, I doubt everyone will :) git push should just DTR I think
<seb128> +1
<seb128> those syntaxs are chinese to me at least :p
<Laney> ffs
<seb128> well if there is no other way and that people have to learn long/complex commands that's the way it is
<seb128> but if we can do simple things to just work that's better
<seb128> imho
<Laney> please
<Laney> PLEASE
<Laney> move away from asserting this is some insanely complex system
<Laney> didrocks: look into push.default in git-config
<Laney> probably you want "matching"?
<didrocks> Laney: nope, doesn't work as it's different remote
<didrocks> not different branch
<didrocks> but pushremote works
<Laney> how does that make a no argument "git push" work?
<seb128> Laney, I'm not saying that, just that a 2 arguments command is easier to remember than a 8 arguments one
<didrocks> git push origin -> push every tracking branch to origin repo
<didrocks> so, you end up with:
<didrocks> [branch "upstream/latest"]
<didrocks>         remote = upstream
<didrocks>         merge = refs/heads/master
<didrocks>         pushremote = origin
<didrocks> for instance
<Laney> ok, not no argument, I thought that's what you wanted
<didrocks> well, you have to define the origin you push to
<didrocks> but at least, we'll have the upstream/latest and pristine-tar branches push with your changes
<didrocks> without being out of sync and so on
<Laney> When the command line does not specify where to push with the <repository> argument, branch.*.remote
<didrocks> (and as it's a local config, people can opt-in or not)
<Laney>        configuration for the current branch is consulted to determine where to push. If the configuration is
<Laney>        missing, it defaults to origin.
<Laney> maybe this works already
<didrocks> it does
<didrocks> just tried :)
<didrocks> so, maybe we should add that as well
<didrocks> let's see, anyway, I think people will try/review and we'll iterate on the workflow
<Laney> k
<didrocks> however:
<didrocks> $ git branch -vv
<didrocks> * upstream/latest 0bd90ca34 [upstream/master] region: Show scrollbars if needed
<didrocks> doesn't show the push remote, can be a first patch to git! :p
<Laney> :>
<Laney> what is "git push" pushing with your configuration if there are changes on multiple branches?
<Laney> all of them or just the current one?
<didrocks> all of them
<Laney> Trevinho: I just uploaded your gdm, do you want to handle the merge? (for practice)
<didrocks> well, all of them which is tracking the default remote
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, ok
<Trevinho> Thanks
<Trevinho> Laney: have you seen the nux thing too?
<didrocks> I'll try with additional new untracked branches and so on to confirm
<seb128> good morning Trevinho!
<Laney> Trevinho: the bug?
<Trevinho> seb128: hi
<didrocks> yes, it doesn't add any untracked branch
<Trevinho> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/1768610
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1768610 in nux (Ubuntu) "leftover conffile forces GNOME is software rendering" [High,In progress]
<Laney> Trevinho: yeah, that, is Andrea going to review or?
<Trevinho> Laney: I've also prepared sru branches and bileto tickets, but I will update them
<Trevinho> Laney: well, since it's 99% debian change I would go with you
<Trevinho> I wanted to ask him yesterday, but I thought it was more for you
<Laney> /o\
<Laney> you always add some random extra thing in :P
<Trevinho> Laney: of course... I don't like partial solutions
<Laney> like renaming the conffile
<Trevinho> Laney: removing and the renaming it
<Trevinho> That's optional of course, but since it's not a conf file there's no point of treating it like that
<Laney> right, is that correct?
<Laney> why not a mv_conffile?
<Laney> oh a symlink?
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> I don't think you can hack the policy in that way really
<Trevinho> Laney: that's that guidelines say... Not me
<Laney> my laptop just froze long enough to type 1198 "i"s
<Trevinho> Mh, I get freezes too, but I wasn't able to get anything from gdb
<Laney> and there's loads of Jun 13 11:35:21 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: Key repeat discarded, Wayland compositor doesn't seem to be processing events fast enough!
<Laney> Trevinho: ok, where's this policy reference? :-)
<Laney> 10.7.2
<Trevinho> Debian maintainer guide 5.3
<Trevinho> I mentioned in the commit msg I thought, no?
<Laney> dunno, I'm looking at the diff
<Laney> If the program you're packaging requires every user to modify the configuration files in the /etc directory
<Laney> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> ok that time it crashed completelyy
<Laney> Jun 13 11:51:18 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: Key repeat discarded, Wayland compositor doesn't seem to be processing events fast enough!
<Laney> Jun 13 11:51:18 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: (EE)
<Laney> Jun 13 11:51:18 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: Fatal server error:
<Laney> Jun 13 11:51:18 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: (EE) Error sending request: Resource temporarily unavailable
<Laney> Jun 13 11:51:18 nightingale org.gnome.Shell.desktop[3732]: (EE)
<Trevinho> Laney: well it talks about editing that, but that's the way to make sure that an /etc file is not a conffile, as in this case should not be at all
<Laney> why not?
<Laney> I mean I don't see why this one is different to any of the others in there
<Trevinho> Laney: in fact I think they're all wrong
<Trevinho> Laney: it's a distro-provided file not to be broken or changed by the user
<Laney> this isn't really a policy to fix randomly in one SRU
<Trevinho> those are scripts which are sourced, and while in some cases they might change settings, in this specific case it's not
<Trevinho> Laney: not "randomly", anyway if you prefer I can not SRU that bit, but it's a matter of principle to me
<Trevinho> for not being a conffile
<Laney> well fine, but I think you should take this up with the X maintainers then
<Trevinho> mh, well, I see the point for having Xsession.d in etc, and both for historic reason this can't be changed, but... Also because it could be used for user configurations, so it's fine to be in /etc to me, what's is wrong is the distro to threating it wrongly
<Laney> maybe you want to ask for a way to put files in /usr
<Trevinho> nope, since otherwise the order is compromised
<Trevinho> I mean, that's an option too.. but
<Laney> not necessarily, the order could be sorted by filename for example
<Laney> anyway this is not a debate for me to have
<Laney> sorry :(
<Trevinho> I know it's nothing crucial, but I don't like the status quo and this is a clean way to fix it imho
<Trevinho> considering we can't really change the wold, but we can change a package
<Trevinho> world* (x11)
<Laney> It's a hack, it's against policy and it's changing just one package when the alleged issue applies to more
<Laney> soryr Marco
<Laney> If you want to try to get someone else to approve it instead of me, you can feel free
<Trevinho> Laney: it's not against the policy... it is based on the policy. An hack is what they propose too (as no other tools are provided to do things in a cleaner way). And while they mention a different scenario is, it has to be interpreted and can totally applied to this scope.
<Laney> I don't really want to argue about this any more
<Trevinho> but as I said, doing a bzr uncommit won't be a problem, but I wanted to point out this to underline where the issue is, and that we can have it fixed also don't worry about this later (if might happen)
<Trevinho> hey :), it's just talking eh,  but while I was aware and pretty expecting you didn't like :-D, I wanted to propose it anyway for some discussion, in a productive way. As to me this would be the way to go for all those files, and just starting from one (that is coincidentally  causing troubles)
 * Laney thinks that was supposed to be a PM :P
 * Laney hugs Trevinho 
<Trevinho> Laney: ahah, no, just to underline there's no drama :-D
<Trevinho> or maybe to make it for the interested audience
<Laney> ohohoh
<Trevinho> we could actually start fighting for "real", as any reality tv show, just in order to get people watching it :-D
<Laney> jelly wrestling at the sun sprint
<Laney> that's already on my list
<Trevinho> ahaha
<Trevinho> Laney: in the mean time I've updated https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+git/gdm3/+merge/347812
<Laney> ð
<Laney> looks nice, thanks, /me test builds
<Trevinho> don't spoil me now, eh... i still believe that my crusade against the conffile was right :-D
 * Trevinho that's for the audience
<Laney> :( trolled
 * Nafallo muches popcorn
<Trevinho> Laney: I also reverted the nux commit...
<Trevinho> the SRU test case would be complicated though...
<Trevinho> I don't know how people can test this upgrade at all
<Trevinho> removing the file was quite easier to check :)
<seb128> Trevinho, the SRU test case is easy
<seb128> - install xenial
<seb128> - upgrade to bionic
<seb128> - sudo apt-get remove nux-tools
<seb128> - log into your session
<seb128> - check glxinfo (or other equivalent)
<Trevinho> seb128: eh, no... that's too generic
<seb128> ?
<seb128> that's how the people who reported the bug got the issue
<Trevinho> ah, wait... ok.
<seb128> and a valid wait to test it
<seb128> the test case doesn't need to be the most minimalistic way to test
<seb128> just one way to confirm the problem is fixed
<Trevinho> yeah, that's fine... I was thinking to the case of unity+gnome installed
<Trevinho> but, that's just a consequence of the fix
<seb128> ?
<seb128> the bug report is "GNOME session uses software rendering"
<seb128> the fix purpose is to make sure that doesn't happen when not necessary
<Trevinho> yes. That could happen also in the case that unity has not been removed, but that tool fails
<Trevinho> for any reason, thus leading to the same situation
<seb128> right
<seb128> well you can add another testcase if you wish
<seb128> like rm the binary :p
<Trevinho> so, I've also covered that case
<seb128> or edit it in vim to corrupt it
<seb128> or whatever
<seb128> but that's not needed by the SRU process
<seb128> what I described is good enough for the SRU
<Trevinho> ok, fine
<Trevinho> all bileto tickets are running
<Laney> BI LE TOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 * Trevinho is missing was missing it
 * Trevinho was missing to hit ctrl+backspace too
<Laney> SRU team hates reviewing bileto SRUs btw
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> Trevinho: do you have an idea for handling people that already removed it without purging?
<Trevinho> Laney: eh, as they don't have the tools, but I think fixed a bit
<Trevinho> Laney: the only thing I was thinking is doing a purge from another package that is going to be installed instead, but not that I like the solution...
<Trevinho> I mean the symlink thing was gold compared to this :)
<Laney> I don't think there is a good solution :(
<Laney> actually asked in #debian-devel about that earlier and nobody had a good idea
<Laney> rm_conffile from like mesa or something would be OK as long as the file is put back if they reinstall nux-tools later on
<Trevinho> Laney: that's why I also wanted to get rid of the conffile at all
<Trevinho> Laney: in this way there won't be such problem either
<Laney> stop engaging me in this argument please
<Trevinho> ahaha, that's just I'm saying the rationale behind it (https://wiki.debian.org/ConfigPackages this also mentions something)... And don't keep it hard.  It's just we're in a land of cases where clean solutions aren't always feasible, thus...
<Trevinho> Laney: anyway doing a purge from postinst of ubuntu-desktop (or any other choice) for example would work, but really I don't like it
<Laney> I don't think there *is* a good solution
<Laney> I only say mesa because that's the pkg that is going to have (most) problems with this
<Laney> i.e. you have a problem because you have this installed
<Trevinho> Laney: true, I was thinking higher level like ubuntu-desktop since it's something that as a desktop we want it to be fixed when ubuntu-desktop is there, while we don't care if the user has other broken config.
<Trevinho> Laney: anyway... thanks for approvals
<Trevinho> but, I moved the a, b branches to another one since they don't include the m4 change
<Laney> I just did the ones that were linked from the bug
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, you did wel.... I didn't update it yet as I was waiting for bileto results
<Trevinho> Laney: I can self-approve btw as they're just the same - the m4 change
<Trevinho> https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/nux/x11-conffile-on-unity-only-ab/+merge/347867
<Laney> sure if you link to the one where I approved for reference
<Trevinho> yep
<Trevinho> that was the plan
<Trevinho> Laney: when you've a sec, feel free to publish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/active?search=1768610
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho, that's what they did for upstart but they had an easier job that the package has been removed from the archive
<Laney> seb128: that being?
<seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/358113353/xorg_1%3A7.7+19ubuntu4_1%3A7.7+19ubuntu5.diff.gz
<seb128> DOH, sorry :)
<Laney> thx!
<seb128> np!
<Laney> yeah I think you have to like check if the thing is removed
<Laney> because it's still around
<Laney> bit more complex as you say
<andyrock> morning all
<Laney> same idea though
<Laney> hey andyrock, how's it going?
<seb128> hey andyrock
<andyrock> Laney: I'm good thanks you?
<Laney> top
<Laney> top QUALITY!
 * Laney checks Trevinho's diffs carefully ;-)
<didrocks> ah, it wasn't me adding it as a conffiles
 * didrocks started to become crazy
<didrocks> I added it for lightdm to check (but as a non file in /etc)
<didrocks> then, it's all Lukasz's fault adding it to Xsession.d :p
<didrocks> (but TBH, not real other alternatives)
<didrocks> and yeah, +1 on the issue for non real conffiles, but not something to change in a SRU ;)
<didrocks>  /end-arg ;)
<Laney> all published
<didrocks> pristine-tars is going to be interesting vs merging vs debian
<didrocks> I wonder how much they will match the same hash, how we are going to document merging from debian (reimporting current debian pristine-tar branch)
<Laney> git will probably merge it ok
<didrocks> yeah, needs experimenting
<Trevinho> didrocks: happy you agree on that, right not to SRU it, I was fine to do it for cosmic, since it was thee though, but not really relevant. :)
<didrocks> Laney: something is probably fishy in my config
<didrocks> Laney: gpb import-orig ../tarball created a commit in upstream/latest as well
<didrocks> with a tag upstream/3.28.2
<didrocks> which it then imported in the ubuntu/master branch
<didrocks> so, up to latest commit
<didrocks> it's like it couldn't match the upstream tag and import only what was required
<didrocks> ah, tag format for upstream is tag: GNOME_CONTROL_CENTER_3_28_1
<didrocks> I guess that's why the match didn't happen and it just took latest and went nuts
<didrocks> I'm surprised that upstream/latest is | | | | Author: Michael Biebl
<didrocks> | * |   commit 83b100dc96d318975a1db465ac955c49ba4bf22b (tag: upstream/3.28.1, debian/upstream/latest)
<didrocks> upstream/latest isn't supposed to be pure upstream repo?
<didrocks> and track upstream/master?
<didrocks> it seems that it's always an additional commit, I guess it's linked to how pristine-tar is working
<Laney> that's the delta between the tag and the tarball
<Laney> upstream/* branches reflect the tarball's contents
<didrocks> the delta is not in pristine-tar?
<Laney> if you look you'll see merge commits
<didrocks> I thought upstream/latest was upstream/master for instance
<Laney> pristine-tar tells you how to get from a git object to a tarball
<Laney> no it's not
<didrocks> and pristine-tar is the delta between upstream/latest and tarball
<Laney> it's the upstream release artifacts
<Laney> it *contains* all of the upstream commits
<Laney> but it is not identical to the branch upstream has
<Laney> because tarballs often contain generated files and those are stored in there
<didrocks> yeah, that's what I thought was in pristine-tar, but ok
<didrocks> so basically, you merge upstream/master into upstream/latest?
<didrocks> instead of being in sync?
<Laney> I never touch upstream/ branches manually
<Laney> gbp does that
<didrocks> how can gbp knows upstream repo thus?
<didrocks> it didn't invente those upstream commits
<Laney> it knows what format to look for tags in
<Laney> because it knows what version it's trying to import
<Laney> this doesn't always work though, and in those cases you can pass --upstream-vcs-tag to tell it
<Laney> jbicha has been asking upstreams to use consistent tag naming to make this work automatically in more cases
<didrocks> hum
<Laney> with some success
<didrocks> but on https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+git/gnome-terminal/+ref/upstream/latest
<didrocks> you have like 47a9491... by Christian Persch <chpe@src.gnome.org> on 2018-05-02
<didrocks> which is an upstream commit
<didrocks> I wonder how come it knows the upstream remote repo url
<didrocks> and from what branch it's pulling from
<Laney> so you go gbp import-orig ../gnome-terminal-3.28.2.tar.xz
<didrocks> yep
<Laney> or probably gbp import-orig --uscan
<Laney> gbp can figure out the version from that
<didrocks> sure
<Laney> and then it goes and looks at all the tags it has in the repository
<Laney> finds the 3.28.2 one and uses that
<didrocks> how can it find the 3.28.2, from where does he fetch from?
<Laney> you did git fetch upstream before
<didrocks> ahhh, you mean, it's looking at the remote you added locally
<didrocks> but not in a local branch
<didrocks> ok, I got it
<didrocks> then, it's doing the magic on upstream/latest and pristine-tar
<Laney> right, you can have commits around but not on any local branch
<didrocks> (upstream/latest is quite a misleading name)
<Laney> just "known" to git
<Laney> ok, well that's what dep14 specifies
<didrocks> yeah, it's weird that's it's upstream/, and not something not really coming from upstream :)
<Laney> it makes more sense if you think of the tarballs
<didrocks> yeah, I can see that, however, the goal is to easily cherry-pick as well :)
<didrocks> but ok, I think I got it
<Laney> you can still do that
<didrocks> I guess gbp import-orig fetch on all origins, before importing correct?
<Laney> that happens in the <distro>/ namespace though
<Laney> I don't think so
<didrocks> ok, so if you don't fetch
<didrocks> or the tag is invalid
<didrocks> and it doesn't find it
<didrocks> it's taking silently latest commit
<Laney> from where?
<didrocks> ah no, it won't, it's just that my setup was skewed by tracking upstream/latest on usptream/master
<didrocks> as it was my understanding at the time :)
<Laney> aha
<Laney> not actually sure what happens if it can't find the tag, hopefully gives an error
<didrocks> I'll give it some tries
<didrocks> but ok, I need to change some of the repo layout I tried to explain :)
<didrocks> btw, dep14, does you have a link?
<didrocks> http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep14 is 404
<Laney> looks like it moved to https://dep-team.pages.debian.net/deps/dep14/
<didrocks> thanks, google wasn't my friend
<didrocks> ok, more of that tomorrow I guess! :)
<didrocks> time to sign off
<Laney> think this pages.debian.net stuff happened recently with the salsa move
<Laney> see you!
<didrocks> yeah, I guess related to salsa move
<didrocks> bye ;)
<willcooke_> night all
<tsimonq2> Hey, so I'm going through Qt 4 removal bugs and autopilot-qt came up. Is this something that's still used, needed, or wanted?
<tsimonq2> It would be great if someone could comment on bug 1757600 either asking for its removal or clarifying the status of it going forward.
<ubot5`> bug 1757600 in autopilot-qt (Ubuntu) "Please port your package away from Qt 4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1757600
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-14
<tjaalton> duflu: hi, don't mark oem project bugs as dupe of distro bugs, those are needed for process tracking ;)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> tjaalton, OK no problem. I had a hunch that was so. Just grouped the 3 bugs that shared the same upstream link
<duflu> Morning didrocks and tjaalton
<tjaalton> duflu: yeah, i didn't bother searching for the the original bug.. thanks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<tjaalton> and good evening to you :)
<duflu> tjaalton, you don't have to. LP tells you the list of bugs when you add an upstream link
<tjaalton> oh indeed
<duflu> tjaalton, actually only mid-afternoon. We're not really that distant ;)
<tjaalton> hmm where's my foxclocks when I need it ;)
<tjaalton> huh, not available for tbird anymore
<jamesh> if you've got gnome-clocks installed, you can add extra clocks to the gnome-shell notification tray
<duflu> biab
<tjaalton> jamesh: okay, installed and enabled some.. but how to get them show up?
<jamesh> tjaalton: I just have a "World Clocks" section that shows underneath the calendar in the notification tray
<jamesh> it just shows any time zones I added in gnome-clocks
<tjaalton> jamesh: indeed, after restarting the shell
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> It's been a while since I said that
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> more than once
<duflu> Going well, you seb128?
<seb128> I'm good!
<seb128> played tennis yesterday, slept well,  and it's sunny today
<seb128> I'm still not done with performance reviews though :/ hopefully today
<didrocks> good luck :)
<seb128> thx!
<duflu> Sounds like Seb's in the best possible mood, not counting the effect of the task itself
<duflu> Or should be
<Laney> ð
<seb128> hey willcooke Laney, how is the big island today?
<didrocks> morning willcooke, Laney
<willcooke> hi seb128, didrocks
<willcooke> Grey today
<Laney> ð¨ð¨ð¨ð¨
<Laney> +
<Laney> âââ
<Laney> didrocks: ð«ð·?
<Laney> aw, our font doesn't have the flags
<Laney> talking in emoji is very limiting
<xnox> i see french flag
<xnox> in hexchat... i think i see all the emojis you posted....
<Laney> I get a big F R in squares
<duflu> o/ Laney
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<didrocks> I see something weirdâ¦ A mixed F and R with ? ;)
<Nafallo> I'm getting Laney
<Nafallo> morning, or something.
<Nafallo> I've had meetings
<didrocks> Laney: I really have some doubts that we'll be able to easily merge back from debian the latest/upstream and pristine-tar branches
<didrocks> as importing new version will definitively end up with different commit hashes
<didrocks> so, basically, we should be able to "merge" them, I doubt we can just fast forward
<duflu> didrocks, sounds like you're using DEP-14. It's possible (not completely sure) that my alternate approach would solve that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bluetooth/BluezGit
<duflu> Although DEP-14 is so common that common knowledge is an advantage too
<didrocks> duflu: well, I guess we settled on DEP-14, didn't we?
<duflu> didrocks, yeah every project other than Ubuntu-BlueZ uses DEP-14
<didrocks> sounds weird, we should be consistent
<duflu> Well I didn't know DEP-14 existed at the time. And in the end it was still pleasing to come up with something arguably better. So not a waste of effort
<Laney> didrocks: ok, is merging a problem?
<didrocks> Laney: I don't think so, it's just that we will never have the same branches than debian for those
<didrocks> and as the goal was to increase collaboration with debian, it means the same repo can't be used for both ubuntu and debian contributions
<didrocks> or if debian is happy to have those merge commits, I think it's fine
<Laney> don't understand that bit, what is wrong with pushing merges
<Laney> right
<didrocks> unsure if debian will take it
<didrocks> but if you think that's ok, great :)
<Laney> don't think it'd be a problem to have those branches non fast forwarding either (i.e. reset)
<didrocks> good then
<Laney> nice effect is that the best path is to get uploads in debian ;-)
<Laney> I guess if people have/get access to the repos on salsa they can push upstream/* and pristine-tar there directly too, that might save some effort
<didrocks> agreed
<Laney> #workflownerds
<Laney> it's always a bit scary typing my password into a black screen
<Laney> ...what if it didn't lock and IRC is focused...
 * Laney yolo
<duflu> Laney has all the fun
<duflu> Says the guy trying to do linear algebra instead of having dinner
<duflu> Night
 * Laney goes cross eyed
<didrocks> Laney: any idea why gbp push doesn't push the debian-branch referenced named? (ubuntu/master for instance)
<Laney> no sorry, I've never used that command
<didrocks> it seems to be a convenient way to pull/push all related branches
<didrocks> like debian-branch, upstream-branch and pristine-tar branch
<didrocks> I see it does for the last 2
<Laney> --help of those tools usually says what it thinks the branches are
<didrocks> hum, doesn't seem it does for that one :/
<didrocks> oh sorry
<didrocks> yeah, it dose
<didrocks>     --debian-branch=DEBIAN_BRANCH
<didrocks>                         Branch the Debian package is being developed on,
<didrocks>                         default is 'ubuntu/master'
<didrocks> so, sounds like all good, but it still doesn't push itâ¦
<Laney> sorry, I'm not sure :(
<didrocks> you always checkout/pull manually in each branch?
<Laney> I've used gbp pull I think, maybe?
<Laney> probably?
<Laney> definitely have used gbp clone
<didrocks> yeah, gbp pull DTRT
<didrocks> as gbp clone
<Laney> but never the push one
<didrocks> only gbp push isâ¦ weird
<didrocks> so you checkout and push the 3 branches manually?
<Laney> no, you don't need to check a branch out to push it
<didrocks> correct
<didrocks> let's forget about gbp push
<Laney> but git push remote <list of branches>, yes
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> or just git push for "origin"
<didrocks> ok, let's go with that
<Laney> if it should work and doesn't, then that is maybe a bug that you could look into
<Laney> if you wanted
<didrocks> yeah, trying to get the doc up first, but then, why not
<didrocks> it's python, not perl :)
<didrocks> which made my day
<Laney> :3
<Laney> i'm too stupid for this
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<seb128> do something else for a bit, new ideas might come from stepping back?
<Laney>         gdk_set_allowed_backends ("x11");
<Laney> that'll probably do it :-)
<Laney> think I need to do something to make xwayland work
<willcooke> gnight all
<Wimpress> greyback: Any chance you're online for a not work related question?
<greyback> Wimpress: online now, in case you are
<Wimpress> greyback: Thanks. I was going to ask if you would go on my mate podcast, but he's changed plans now.
<Wimpress> *mates
<greyback> Wimpress: no worries!
<DIRT> anyone use the new gnome desktop on a 2 in 1?
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-06-15
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> good afternoon duflu
<jibel> hi everyone
<duflu> Hi jibel
<jibel> Hello duflu
<didrocks> re jibel
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, happy friday! how are you!
<seb128> ?
<duflu> Painful sinuses, but good in general. You seb128?
<seb128> I'm good, it's friday, I slept well and I'm done writting performance reviews (just mine left to do)
<Nafallo> morning
<jibel> I'll do some SRU verification today, there is ubiquity with the telemetry fixes and gnome-initial-setup in bionic. Is there anything else you'd like to land?
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html has quite a list
<seb128> not a lot that needs testing though, maybe bolt if somebody has thunderbolt devices
<Nafallo> ubuntu-report needs more verification as well :-)
<jibel> seb128, yeah, but I was just wondering if there was anything urgent in this list
<jibel> I don't have any thunderbolt device
<seb128> jibel, not that I know, but thanks for asking!
<seb128> k, don't worry, oem has I'm going to nag them :) (they did the g-c-c panel testing, I forgot to ask about bolt at the same time)
<Nafallo> seb128: what I love about their test is the hardware. that TB16 is what I'm planning to get long-term for my home office :-D
<seb128> hehe
<Nafallo> morning willcooke :-)
<willcooke> morning
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<didrocks> hey Nafallo, willcooke
<Nafallo> salut didrocks :-)
<Nafallo> it's a good morning when you find a way to get paid to make network cables ;-)
<duflu> Huh. I just noticed there's a whole layer of texture being painted behind the Gnome wallpaper. Wonder if that's universal and hurting the fill rate
<didrocks> ahah ;)
<Laney> meh got that intel bug again and had to restart
<Laney> anyway MORNING AND HAPPY FRIDAY!
<duflu> Hi Laney
<Nafallo> morning Laney :-)
<Laney> hey duflu and Nafallo
<Laney> what better way to start the day than you two?
<duflu> most of the other ways?
<Nafallo> :-O
<duflu> It's me, not you, Nafallo
<Laney> the fake news media again
<Nafallo> I've heard that enough to believe it, duflu ;-)
<seb128> (back online)
<seb128> good morning U.K (assuming those arrived while I was disconnected)
<seb128> hey Laney, willcooke, happy friday!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> happy friday to you, are you good?
<seb128> yes! it's friday, I slept well and I'm almost done with that reviews business
<seb128> you?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<didrocks> Laney: so, it seems that if it can't find the tags, gbp just import as one commit without inserting upstream commits in upstream/latest. I'm searching if there is an option to abort in that case
<Laney> moin didrocks
<Laney> didrocks: that'd be good, something in debian/gbp.conf
<Laney> seb128: I'm alright, we went out for "craft beer week" last night and had some tasty stuff ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: I look at its man, as well as the one for gbp-import-orig, but I don't see nothing
<didrocks> anything*
<Laney> maybe we should have a list of patches to work on somewhere
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> because this is going to happen for sure (a mistake in that case)
<didrocks> I wonder if that didn't happen already anyway ;)
<didrocks> (at least, in debian)
<Laney> it's probably possible to fix it up by re-merging or something
<Laney> but still would be nice to enforce
<didrocks> I wonder if as an interim solution, instead of commenting out upstream-vcs-tag, we can set it to something
<didrocks> it won't find it
<didrocks> and so, have to enforce manual --upstream-vcs-tag option
<didrocks> need to rollback current import test to give this a try
<Laney> if you make a list somewhere, let me know please because I want to put https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888313 on it
<ubot5> Debian bug 888313 in git-buildpackage "please allow git remote configuration (e.g. for upstream remote)" [Wishlist,Open]
<didrocks> Laney: let me add a section at the end of the wiki page, easier
<didrocks> I'm unsure about gbp push, I only see drawbacks compared to git push + tags autopushed
<didrocks> but at least, that one + yours
<Laney> â¥
<didrocks> it's a little bit a PITA to rollback an existing import, hum
<jibel> didrocks, how to you determine the physical screen size?
<jibel> in ubuntu-report
<jibel> I get 0mmx0mm
<didrocks> Laney: ok, good news, tag is enforced if you have the option in gpb.conf
<didrocks> jibel: xrandr line, corresponding to each monitors
<didrocks> for instance: HDMI-1-2 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 160mm x 90mm
<didrocks> (it's giving thus 160mmx90mm)
<jibel> didrocks, okay, thanks. xrandr returns 0 in a vm so it's correct
<didrocks> actually, that makes sense
<didrocks> I could probably filter the data if you feel so to not be published
<Nafallo> or use it for detecting VMs ;-)
<didrocks> we have as well GPU info for that :)
<jibel> didrocks, it's fine. I was just checking if 0 was expected or an error
<didrocks> errors or unfound content should just be ignored
<didrocks> (as the rest) so not part of the final report
<didrocks> Laney: I don't really like the history by default of latest/upstream, it's merging everything (so you end up with an earlier commit for 3.29.x and a more recent for 3.28.x for instance, depending on the order of your merge)
<Laney> if you're merging an earlier series, probably start using upstream/3.28.x
<didrocks> I think a check "if more recent tag" would be good, otherwise, force a lastest/3.28.x branch for instance, wdyt?
<didrocks> sounds like we are in aggreement :)
<Laney> that's the dep14 recommendation anyway
<didrocks> yeah, the thing is that it should be enforced to avoid mistakes IMHO
<Laney> how would you do that?
<didrocks> just for the tags in latest/uptream
<didrocks> if there is a later version in those tags than the version you try to import, error out
<didrocks> (if your upstream-branch is still latest/upstream in that case ofc)
<Laney> talking about a patch to gbp import-orig?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> so that latest/<branch> never "goes back"
<Laney> worth a bug upstream on gbp probably to see what they think
<Laney> it's upstream/latest btw :P
<didrocks> yeah, typing too fast ;)
<jibel> sil2100, about bug 1775743, did you try to downgrade grub?
<ubot5> bug 1775743 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "[regression] Cosmic daily images 20180606-11 install but boots only to grub prompt on EFI systems" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1775743
<sil2100> jibel: no, not yet, since the image was broken before the grub-signed/shim-signed changes were released
<Laney> woohoo
<Laney> Xwayland stuff is working
<willcooke> hi robert_ancell!
<seb128> k, I'm done catching up with the backlog of IRC logs, meetings, emails, etc from the weeks while I was away and the reviews from the week fried me up so I don't feel like start on something else now
<Laney> beer time?
<didrocks> you should just enjoy your week-end :)
<seb128> tdlr I'm going to call it a week and go for a walk, I keep IRC open and will read backlog/respond if there is anything for me before closing it
<seb128> Laney, ice rather :)
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers, let's relax and see what next weekl brings!
<Laney> ttyllllllllllll
<didrocks> bye seb! :)
<willcooke> night all, have a good weekend
<k_alam> jbicha: Hi, Can you please take some time out and review sharing-panel merge ? I also completed libnm-port. The problem is libnm branch uses some helper files which are already included in sharing-panel branch (I didn't start the libnm port). So every time u-c-c updates I have to rebase everything which is not easy in bzr. Once the former gets merged it can be backported so LTS users do not get that error either.
<k_alam> Atm, sharing-panel merge is blocking libnm and other merge requests.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-10
<marcustomlinson> morning
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> duflu: hey, how are you?
<duflu> marcustomlinson, going well. You?
<marcustomlinson> pretty good today thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> relaxing weekend
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<duflu> I suspect "all" is few
<marcustomlinson> morning willcooke
<willcooke> hi duflu marcustomlinson
<willcooke> yeah, lots of public hols today
<Trevinho> morning from Italy!
<willcooke> Hi Trevinho, not on holiday today as well?
<duflu> Hi Trevinho. Thanks for landing things... some of it was past a year old :/
<duflu> As luck would have it I was thinking about those last night. I must have sensed you
<Laney> yo
<duflu> Hi Laney
<marcustomlinson> hey Trevinho and Laney
<Trevinho> willcooke: no, no... in-da-house
<Trevinho> duflu: np
<Trevinho> and hi duflu, marcustomlinson and Laney
<Laney> o m g
<Laney> moin duflu marcustomlinson Trevinho
<duflu> Trevinho, do the other residents remember you?
<duflu> :)
<Trevinho> duflu: no, we did presentations before xD
<Laney> Trevinho: what's the next travel plan?
<GunnarHj> Good morning, Laney! Time to talk about https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+git/gnome-settings-daemon/+merge/368409 ? As a first step I'd like to know if the approach is reasonable.
<Trevinho> Laney: calm a bit... then Sardinia and some more southern italy. As I've to show the best to Dayana :-)
<Laney> :>
<Laney> GunnarHj: what is initial setup doing when it runs?
<Laney> isn't it putting things in KEY_INPUT_SOURCES ?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Not on Ubuntu, AFAIK.
<GunnarHj> Laney: And it doesn't run when you "Try Ubuntu".
<Laney> I'm thinking that it looks weird to test for how something was done rather than what it did
<Laney> and the previous code looks (to me) like it did the latter
<GunnarHj> Laney: The idea is to make sure that the function runs 1. when you "Try Ubuntu" and 2. at first login. The file in ~/.config comes in hande to achieve that.
<GunnarHj> s/hande/handy
<Laney> so what you're doing is running that add_ibus thing even when there are some input sources already defined
<Laney> on the first login and the live session
<GunnarHj> Laney: Yes.
<Laney> do we know what it's set up with and in what way it's not sufficient?
<Laney> how is that set up? casper/
<Laney> ?
<GunnarHj> Laney: I don't much about the code involved in the installer. One weird thing is that it behaves differently if you launch "Try Ubuntu" from the Ubiquity welcome screen compared to when you "Try Ubuntu before installing" from the isolinux menu. The bug is only present for the former case.
<GunnarHj> Laney: But keyboard configuration in general is a can of worms. My hope is that we can make this attempt to at least make sure that an IBus method is present for Chinese, Japanese, etc. live sessions.
<Laney> GunnarHj: What do you think about checking if it's maybe_convert_old_settings() grabbing it from somewhere? I can see references to the (old?) org.gnome.libgnomekbd.keyboard schema in casper and ubiquity, at least.
<Laney> I'd be happier if we knew why it was getting set up wrongly, and ideally if we could fix that place directly
<Laney> I guess it'd be possible to add some debugging into that function to see what it's doing
<GunnarHj> Laney: One question is what's the most right or wrong way wrt the XKB layouts. But isn't answering that question beyond the scope of the bug, which is only about a missing IBus method?
<Laney> I'm trying to identify why the existing call to add_ibus_sources_from_locale() isn't happening - presumably because the 'old' settings are being set up
<Laney> If that's true, then it might be the right fix to have maybe_convert_old_settings() call add_ibus_sources_from_locale()
<Laney> maybe_convert_old_settings() makes a stamp file so it only runs one time
<GunnarHj> Laney: But why would maybe_convert_old_settings() run when you "Try Ubuntu" from the Welcome screen but not from the isolunux menu?
<Laney> I can guess
<Laney> The "Try Ubuntu" screen runs a desktop environment to show you the GUI
<Laney> as part of that it starts up a few g-s-d bits
<Laney> Guess is that this causes the stamp file to be created (because it runs that function), and it's not run a second time when you click "Try Ubuntu" to start GNOME Shell
<Laney> second guess would be that something actually does directly set up the input sources
<GunnarHj> Laney: My hope was to avoid to dig too deep into this. :)
<GunnarHj> Laney: Especially since I don't know how you test things involving the installer.
<Laney> Try moving add_ibus_sources_from_locale() into maybe_convert_old_settings() and see what happens
<Laney> oh, how did you test this then?
<GunnarHj> Laney: I have tested on an existing install, and kind of simulating first Chinese/Japanese logins. But that kind of test could well be done if I move the call into maybe_convert_old_settings().
 * Laney nods
<Laney> Make sure it goes towards the end of the function, so all the other bits get run too and it respects the stamp file
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok. Didn't notice the stamp file before. Will probably do so now.
<Laney> ð
 * Laney needs to go back to juju land for a bit now
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for input!
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-11
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<Trevinho> morning crew!
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, Trevinho
<Trevinho> didrocks: hi!
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, hi Trevinho
<marcustomlinson> Goeie mÃ´re didrocks duflu oSoMoN Trevinho
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN, euro-Trevinho, marcustomlinson and willcooke
<Laney> yo thar
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning Laney
<marcustomlinson> morning Laney and willcooke
<oSoMoN> mornin' marcustomlinson, duflu, Laney, willcooke
<Laney> bloomin HECK it's wet
<Laney> hi duflu marcustomlinson oSoMoN willcooke
 * willcooke has a leak this morning 
<willcooke> in the ceiling
<didrocks> hey Laney, willcooke
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: that totally sucks...
<seb128> hey again, looks like a disconnected earlier!
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson Trevinho
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> everyone had a good w.e (&monday)?
<Laney> hi didrocks
<seb128> hey Laney
<didrocks> salut seb128
<oSoMoN> leaks suck, good luck identifying and fixing it willcooke
<Laney> moin seb128
<Laney> what weekend?!?!?!
<willcooke> Looks like its coming from around the bottom of an upstairs window then running down inside the wall.  Meh, nothing I can do about it now other than get a bucket.
<Laney> grim
<Laney> is it in the new bit?
<oSoMoN> seb128, I slept a lot, sunbathed and had bbq, I think that qualifies as a good week-end :) you?
<willcooke> Laney, yeah
<willcooke> It can't rain all day, can it
<Laney> you've done it now
<willcooke> :D
<duflu> Welcome back seb128
<seb128> oSoMoN, w.e was good and relaxing, weather not that great here though
<duflu> willcooke, the rain stopped briefly here, till you said that
<willcooke> ha
<duflu> But it's a novelty and I love it
<duflu> If only I had fixed all the roof leaks in summer
<Trevinho> Ah hey seb128
<Trevinho> had good weekend?
<seb128> hey Trevinho, quite good indeed, we are in France enjoying the nice food :)
<seb128> Trevinho, we got called out on planet GNOME (https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2019/06/09/on-ubuntu-updates/) for still not having gnome-shell 3.32.2 SRUed to disco, do you think we should have done that SRU and dropped the ball?
<seb128> Laney, same for glib?
<seb128> I'm not blaming, I just wonder if we agree we are late/should aim at fixing that
<seb128> or if we believe those updates are not that important and it's a bit unfair as a comment
<Trevinho> seb128: hm IIRC the branch was prepared but blocked because of a regression mhmh
<seb128> Trevinho, can you find the regression and comment on the blog with that data?
<seb128> the regression reference*
<Trevinho> seb128: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.32.1-1ubuntu1~19.04.1 blocked as per https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/66c2476d86f4d697ff373f99f20c6134c6b5fab3
<Laney> seb128: I don't need calling out, GLib is on the list and you can see that from my update on the hub
<Laney> I'm not happy with the tone of those posts one little bit and I don't think we should be giving people the impression that ranting like that results in us jumping to a load of work
<seb128> Laney, right, fair enough, there is a bit of true that we are not always on top of SRUing stable update but there was no need/point to call out on specifics
<seb128> k, meeting
<seb128> sorry a bit late
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun 11 13:32:43 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic:
<Laney> s/the hub/discourse/ ððððððððððððððððððððððð
<seb128> Roll call: didrocks, duflu (out), jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> \o
<oSoMoN> o/
<kenvandine> o/
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> empty
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> out of the ones we already discussed previous week and that still need sorting out
<seb128> bug #1786344
<ubot5> bug 1786344 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Default IBus input method ignored in live session" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1786344
<seb128> Gunnar nominated this one
<seb128> I don't think it has enough heat to be rls tracked
<seb128> I suggest assigning to Gunnar and deleting the bionic specific target
<seb128> he can still pursue the SRUing
<marcustomlinson> ðð»
<seb128> k, next
<seb128> bug #
<seb128> bug #1734887
<ubot5> bug 1734887 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Cosmic) "No caps lock indicator on login screen" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734887
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ do you think that is going to land in 3.30 serie?
<Trevinho> let me see
<Laney> does that affect whether we consider it rls?
<seb128> I don't know
<Trevinho> I think we can propose a cherry pick in case.
<seb128> hum, /me ponders
 * Laney thinks not
<Laney> either we want to fix it or we don't
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> indeed if we consider important we can still do ourself
<seb128> I think it would be nice to fix
<seb128> but probably not important enough to be rls targetted
<Trevinho> a list of nice to have if upstream agrees let's say
<seb128> k, let's untarget it?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> thx
<Laney> dunno why duflu is still doing that, did someone have a word?
<Trevinho> I prepare the cherry pick anyways we'll see if it lands
<seb128> I mentioned it to him, will do again
<Laney> thx
<seb128> that's it for bionic
<seb128> #topic rls-cc-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: rls-cc-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> nothing to discuss, still the era thing unsorted and that capslock one
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> same, nothing new
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the cups one was discussed previous week but I had forgotten to edit post meeting, done now
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> nothing unassigned there
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> tkamppeter, kenvandine, what's the status of sorting out the n-m autopkgtest regression post removal of those deprecated libs?
<kenvandine> I'll check with Till, he's out today
<seb128> thx
<seb128> oSoMoN, the libreoffice one is something on your list?
<Laney> I made a card for it
<Laney> maybe check there first if you're going to be leading this section?
<oSoMoN> there's this one test that's become flaky in eoan, it needs investigating
<seb128> k
<oSoMoN> in the meantime Iâve triggered a new test run
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I didn't intend to "lead", I just though it would be the same as previous week so I asked directly about the n-m status
<seb128> then there was 1 left, it seemed pointless to ask you to ask about that one only
<seb128> thx for making the card, I try to be aware/handle that part better next time
<Laney> ok, well I usually make the cards around meeting time, for reference
<Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libr/libreoffice/eoan/s390x
<seb128> noted
<Laney> that doesn't obviously say "flaky" to me by the way
<Laney> more like new openjdk-lts might have impacted it
<Laney> maybe we get lucky though
<seb128> doookoooo
<seb128> :p
<seb128> but yeah, needs investigating
<oSoMoN> Laney, look at older failures
<seb128> thx oSoMoN Laney
<xnox> seb128:  or like tdaitx  ;-)
<Laney> I mean I see a few crosses
<Laney> what do you mean?
<Laney> anyway, if it's flaky...
<Laney> ....
<Laney> it shouldn't be
<oSoMoN> indeed
<oSoMoN> I'm filing a bug to not forget about it
<Laney> cool
<marcustomlinson> :)
<Laney> there's a card too, such tracking
<seb128> good, that's it for that section then
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Meeting - 2019-06-11 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> other topics?
<didrocks> if a kind AA (not me) from ubuntu-desktop team could review grubzfs-testsuite, that would be awesome :)
<didrocks> (ok, there is just one candidate matching that description :p)
<Laney> kind?!?!?!?
<didrocks> ahah
<Laney> ð
 * Laney slaps self
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 gets the hint
<seb128> didrocks, will do
<didrocks> thx ;)
<seb128> other topics? ;)
<Laney> network-manager on bionic, gnome-shell on disco
<Laney> are those well handled (particularly the first one) or do people need help?
<Trevinho> should we organize for guadec?
<Trevinho> g-s is fine
<seb128> kenvandine, can you speak about n-m/bionic since Till is out? what's the status of unblocking that one?
<Laney> Trevinho: false positive or you have a fix or what?
<Trevinho> Laney: I've already submitted a fix for that
 * Laney is getting daily spam emails from Brian
<Trevinho> merged to master, 3.30 is a bit different diff so done other pick
<seb128> Trevinho, we need another upload with the fix then?
<Laney> 3.32 branch?
<Trevinho> might be the case to do our patching only
<Trevinho> yeah sorry
<Laney> go bug for reviews, if no luck we can distro patch
<Laney> imho
<Trevinho> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/607/
<kenvandine> seb128: last week Till verified the split DNS issue was fixed with the systemd update in bionic
<Trevinho> if you want to help with reviews...
<seb128> kenvandine, that's the systemd part but doesn't address the n-m regressions that leaded to have -updates reverted, right?
<Laney> Trevinho: thx
<kenvandine> i think he's still trying to understand the regression
<seb128> k
<seb128> but yeah, it feels like we don't have a good handle on this one
<Trevinho> seb128: so to answer, yes. although IMHO is quite low priority
<seb128> unsure how we can unblock it
<Trevinho> is something happening on shutdown
<Laney> it's blocking the SRU from being offered to people
<seb128> Trevinho, well, "low priority", our current SRU is blocked from reaching users until that's sorted out
<Trevinho> or reload... which would be anyways covered by session
<Trevinho> sure, sure... I'm saying from the bug point of view. indeed I fixed it promptly because of that...
<seb128> if you believe that's a non issue for users and should be unflagged please talk to Brian about it asking him to do that
<Laney> I'll go ping in #gnome-shell if Marco is too shy :-)
<seb128> thx!
<Trevinho> I am :-)
<seb128> k, that should be it for now on those I guess
<seb128> other topics?
<seb128> 30 seconds
<Trevinho> as for guadec?
<Laney> seems like an internal one
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> but you are right, let me try to get that ball rolling
<Laney> cool
<seb128> but we don't need the team for it, so let's wrap
<Trevinho> we can address it  internally indeed.... just as a reminder ;-)
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun 11 14:07:12 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-06-11-13.32.moin.txt
<seb128> thx everyone!
<oSoMoN> thanks
<Trevinho> thxxxx
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<didrocks> thx
<GunnarHj> seb128: Sorry for bothering you through that 18.04.3 milestone. Didn't know you followed it up so closely, it was merely a note to myself. But yes, I will probably SRU it. I.e. if I ever will please Laney with a reasonable eoan fix. :)
<Laney> GunnarHj: Looking better, will try to review properly soon (or anyone else can if they have time)
<Laney> thanks for that
<GunnarHj> Laney: Yw. I have tested it back and forth through simulating Chinese/Japanese installs, and I'm really curious to see if it makes a difference once it ends up on a daily build ISO.
<kenvandine> sigh... another long list of USN refreshes
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, makes you dread security updates, doesn't it? ;)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: yeah... the rebuilds are trivial
<kenvandine> but then i need to do some testing of them
<kenvandine> and promote...
<kenvandine> seems i get them 20 packages at a time
<oSoMoN> good evening all
<Laney> Trevinho: want to prep MPs for experimental/eoan/disco?
<Trevinho> Laney: k
<Laney> THANKS!
<Trevinho> will do later/tomorrow
<willcooke> night all o/
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine: hey, could you please trigger these autopkgtests for me? (Requires upload rights):
<marcustomlinson> https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=eoan&arch=s390x&package=libreoffice&ppa=marcustomlinson/libreoffice&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.2.4-0ubuntu2~ppa1
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: sure
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<kenvandine> marcustomlinson: done
<marcustomlinson> ðð»
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-12
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va bien !
<pieq> c'est la French connection tous les matins, ici :)
<seb128> oui :-)
<pieq> jamesh, hey, it's ePierre from the snapcraft forum :) Thanks for your answers regarding access to /var/lib, very much appreciated!
<jamesh> pieq: hi
<jamesh> no problem
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Morning didrocks, oSoMoN and jibel
<duflu> Afternoon jamesh
<jamesh> hi duflu
<pieq> didrocks, I opened an issue regarding the snap recipe for ubuntu-report: https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-report/issues/28 ; jamesh has provided an answer that works for me, so if you ever decide to push the snap version instead of the deb, you may want to remember this :)
<pieq> salut jibel
<jibel> salut pieq
<jibel> Ã§a va?
<oSoMoN> morning duflu
<oSoMoN> hey jamesh
<oSoMoN> salut jibel, pieq
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> pieq: oh nice, thx! Will have a look, as long as it supports completion and so on, that's great!
<didrocks> pieq: do not hesitate to PR so that I can rereview it
<pieq> jibel, oui Ã§a va et toi ? It's been raining a lot in Taipei these last few days, which is bad (especially to walk the dog) but also good (the temperature is finally livable!)
<pieq> didrocks, oh ok! I would have to find a way that works on both debian and snaps though. So far I've only tried jamesh 's trick on my own snap which uses --devmode (cause I'm lazy and all)
<didrocks> yeah, reading that, this is why we couldn't snap it
<didrocks> there was first an issue with core18, you couldn't build it against
<didrocks> and then, confinement, classic isn't an option and there is no interface for this
<pieq> didrocks, why isn't classic an option? is ubuntu-report supposed to work even on Ubuntu Core?
<didrocks> pieq: I got some informal discussion with the snap team and the classic confinement would be nacked apparently, they prefer someone to take the time to develop proper interface
<pieq> interesting!
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<marcustomlinson> morning
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
 * marcustomlinson is feeling bleh this morning :/
<duflu> :{
<marcustomlinson> picking up some cold/flu thing since yesterday
<willcooke> hi duflu
<willcooke> bad luck marcustomlinson.  Don't solider on if you're ill
<marcustomlinson> morning willcooke
<marcustomlinson> I'll see how it goes
<Laney> \o
<Laney> o/
<marcustomlinson> \o/
<duflu> o/
<marcustomlinson> could someone with upload rights please trigger this for me? could someone with upload rights trigger this for me pretty please: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=eoan&arch=s390x&package=libreoffice&ppa=marcustomlinson/libreoffice&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.2.4-0ubuntu2~ppa1
<marcustomlinson> whoops how did that happen ?? ð¤
<marcustomlinson> message seemed to disappear so retyped it
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, done
<oSoMoN> and good morning!
<willcooke> hi Laney. oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> thanks oSoMoN :) and good morning to you
<oSoMoN> and good morning willcooke & Laney
<seb128> hey again desktopers
<willcooke> morning seb128
<seb128> (laptop suspended/irc disconnected during morning erands)
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> keeping dry :)
<seb128> improvement!
<Nafallo> o/
<willcooke> hi Nafallo
<oSoMoN> hey Nafallo
<Laney> hi marcustomlinson duflu oSoMoN willcooke seb128
<duflu> Morning seb128
<marcustomlinson> mornign seb128 and Nafallo
<duflu> and Nafallo
<Laney> & Nafallo !
<seb128> hey Laney duflu marcustomlinson
<Nafallo> someone sitting on good documenation about creating udebs? ;-)
<Nafallo> otherwise I'll just base it on flash-kernel and try to figure it out :-D
<seb128> Nafallo, https://d-i.debian.org/doc/internals/ch03.html#idm459 ?
<Nafallo> thanks seb128 :-D
<Nafallo> that gives an additional primer indeed
<duflu> seb128, if using the "June - Started" column, do we still use "In Review", or just keep it "Started"?
<seb128> duflu, keep it "started" for now, we can adjust the workflow later if needed
<seb128> duflu, if we move it out of the june columns we loose visiblity on the fact that it was targetted for this month
<duflu> Yes
<seb128> we could create a "june - in review" if needed, but I'm not sure the column is big enough that it's required so let's try without it this month
<seb128> and do a round of feedback at the end of the month
<duflu> seb128, should we rename "In Progress" to "Long Term - Started" ?
<duflu> Otherwise people might think "In Progress" represents everything in progress
<seb128> duflu, hum, good point. I renamed it to "non targetted work -  started"
<duflu> Cool
<seb128> duflu, are you the one moving proposed/backlog on the top left?
<duflu> seb128, yeah just getting a feel for the ordering/appearance. I am done now so feel free to change it
<seb128> k
<seb128> let's keep the june one on the left for the month
<seb128> I plan to do a round of feedback/comment after that iteration
<seb128> but I think the ones on the left are the most visible ones, and what we want to see/focus on/be reminded of is the current priority work
<seb128> not the endless list of backlog items that is sitting on the board
<duflu> That makes sense. I was just wondering if it made more sense to order the columns chronologically
<duflu> seb128, I suspect you will want to pick that vmwgfx regression bug out of proposed ;)
<seb128> duflu, urg, indeed, SRU regressions in the LTS are not good :-/
<seb128> Trevinho, ^ https://trello.com/c/gn0J5Qgb/169-bug1832138-login-screen-never-appears-on-vmwgfx-but-setting-waylandenablefalse-fixes-it-bionic-updates-regression
<Trevinho> seb128: I'm actually affected by that in a VM I've and while looking at it since long time, I've never understood what's the problem, but indeed isn't a crash. But something in the very low level
<Trevinho> mutter starts and everything, the problem seems to be more related to the drv
<duflu> Trevinho, yes that's also the part of mutter I changed in the latest update
<duflu> Also...
<duflu> Good morning Trevinho
<duflu> Good night all
<seb128> Trevinho, hey. Duflu said that bug started happening following a SRU in bionic, that might tell us what change is triggering the issue and give more clues about the problem?
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128, do you have time to sponsor the SRU-MP at bug #1831144? (Patch picked from upstream.)
<ubot5> bug 1831144 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu Disco) "GNOME control center UI does not update dconf setting for magnifier mouse tracking m ode" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831144
<seb128> GunnarHj, I add it to the backlog
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok.
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, I can look at see if I can get to a point where I start from a bionic VM, dist-upgrade for each upgrade
<Trevinho> but look a bit complicated to track this way
<seb128> Trevinho, check with Daniel first tomorrow maybe? he perhaps started poking to find the commit?
<Trevinho> mh ok
<Trevinho> the annoying thing is that with vmplayer I can't either create snapshotts without copying the disk making such process a bit more annoying
<jibel> boot the disk image with qemu?
<oSoMoN> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-testing-chromium-browser-deb-to-snap-transition/11179
<seb128> oSoMoN, great, which reminds me we said we wanted a discuss about disk space
<oSoMoN> seb128, yes, I implemented a check that won't attempt to import an existing profile if there isn't enough space on disk
<oSoMoN> seb128, https://git.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/+git/snap-from-source/commit/?id=41c779916fcfda62080f346d118e6cc8acab436c
<oSoMoN> happy to discuss further and to refine, of course
<seb128> oSoMoN, oh, nice, well done :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, "when running the snap for the first time, an existing chromium user profile in $HOME/.config/chromium will be imported"
<seb128> oSoMoN, maybe add a "unless there is enough disk space available on disk"?
<seb128> isn't*
<seb128> -on disk
<oSoMoN> seb128, done
<tkamppeter> seb128, the n-m autopkgtest got solved, when I looked after it last week the fix was doine, probably by the person who uploaded the changed n-m in the first place.
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<seb128> tkamppeter, oh? can you give details?
<Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/n/network-manager/eoan/amd64
<Laney> doesn't look solved to me
<seb128> tkamppeter, ^ also there doesn't seem to have been an upload to port away from the missing bindings so unsure how it could have been resolved?
<seb128> kenvandine, tkamppeter, that's probably sometime that we should deal with on higher priority, we have been sitting on that for over a week
<kenvandine> agreed
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: what was the fix?
<Laney> cyphermox did some work, and then it was handed over to tkamppeter to finish because it wasn't finished
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~network-manager/network-manager/+git/ubuntu/+ref/gir-nm
<Laney> possibly tkamppeter was confused and thought that cyphermox was saying it was done
<seb128> kenvandine, tkamppeter, https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/06/03/%23ubuntu-desktop.html has the ping/details
<seb128> Laney, (thx for the summary / details)
<Laney> np
<cyphermox> ^ basically, I think the port hangs on the callbacks
<cyphermox> not sure, but I haven't really done any meaningful glib in a long while, and much less in python
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: look into that ASAP
<kenvandine> we need to get this resolved
<willcooke> night all.  See you all next week probably (depending on what I do on Friday)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, what migrates snap-store from candidate to stable? Manual?
<robert_ancell> And how is the candidate revision (131) greater than the edge revision (122) !?
<kenvandine> Edge is dead
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: manually promote from candidate
<kenvandine> robert_ancell: I have a version built in candidate now that I'll promote tomorrow after some testing
<kenvandine> For a USN refresh
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, Thanks. the candidate contains the use of the new media API (didn't notice that change was missing in snap-store) so it's the last thing that's blocking the removal of the old screenshot support in snapd (https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6582)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-13
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
<didrocks> good morning duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> morning all
<Laney> yo de yo
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, Laney
<Trevinho> morning folks
<didrocks> and a Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi didrocks
<Laney> hi Dan Rock and Mark Trevor
<Trevinho> duflu: hey still here?
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson, Laney and Trevinho...
<duflu> yes?
<Laney> hello Dieter der Vogel
<Trevinho> night duflu!
<duflu> Trevinho, not yet. Only 4pm
<Trevinho> So, as per the vmwgfx regression, as I was telling seb in one of my machine I was affected by that although not sure i did a bionic dist-upgrade, but more i upgraded to cosmic few days after release but and then to disco, but iirc this happened when switching to disco.
<marcustomlinson> Who's Euan Lone talking to?
<Trevinho> in that machine, what I've isn't anything crashing, more not showing things but the buffer per se is there.
<Trevinho> so something lower level
<Laney> yo Marcello Tonioli
<Trevinho> duflu: as for https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/613 I expect upstream prefers always to keep crashes around more than avoiding them, when the solution isn't the final one.
<Trevinho> but if can replicate that?
<duflu> Trevinho, I closed that and am working on an alternative. But I also explained why I disagree with crashing in this case
<Trevinho> the only case I might think could be an issue is the case where a window isn't added to the window group actor (and thus not destroyed) or not deleted from the windows list when syncing the stack.
<Trevinho> duflu: I know, but I expect that while we might use it as distro-patch I don't see that being accepted considering the upstream modus operandi
<duflu> That's fine. It's not a critical issue and I will work toward whatever upstream prefer
<Trevinho> for sure that foreach covers the case where windows aren't in the window group, and I should have done that before, so that's not wrong.
<duflu> I agree it is correct. I was saying it's just not the only fix we should have
<duflu> Trevinho, can you propose that fix too?
<Trevinho> I also expect not to do much, in my tests I never got there with a populated list
<Trevinho> k
<duflu> Because yours might fix the root cause, but doesn't prevent regressions. Mine (and v2 of mine) also prevents regressions so we don't see it again.
<duflu> We shall see how upstream feels about them
<Trevinho> but I expect that in the sync case we're forgetting some window... Following the over-complicated logic, I can't find the issue easily, but maybe I'm missing the point where we remove the window from the list, but we never add it back to the windows list... nor destroy it (or that's not either destroyed ever)
 * duflu nods
<Laney> you should probably be talking in #gnome-shell ...
<Trevinho> right :)
<oSoMoN> Laney, didrocks: are you familiar with the image build infrastructure? I'm looking at bug #1832656, trying to understand why that build failed to contact the snap store while installing the updated chromium-browser
<ubot5> bug 1832656 in ubuntukylin-meta (Ubuntu Eoan) "chromium-browser deb->snap transition breaks ubuntukylin image builds" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1832656
<oSoMoN> I suppose the build environment has restricted network access
<didrocks> oSoMoN: the image build has restricted network access, but can contact the snapstore
<didrocks> I didn't look at the bug yet, but FYI, it happens that there are glimps sometimes and the image fail to build due to network issue on the snapstore
<didrocks> (so, if it's a one time build failure, ignore it)
<didrocks> ah, but you are doing this when installing the deb
<didrocks> oSoMoN: did the previous build used the same deb: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/eoan/ubuntukylin/ ?
<didrocks> (yesterday, there was a store/network outage during image build)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, no, the previous successful build used the old deb that doesn't install the snap
<didrocks> yeah, that's what I see
<didrocks> so, the debs are installed in a chroot
<didrocks> which copies resolv.conf and such
<didrocks> I'm unsure though that it has all the settings for the snap store there
<Laney> It'll be because of network access, indeed
<didrocks> (like snapd isn't running for instance)
<Laney> in livecd-rootfs we pass SNAPPY_STORE_NO_CDN for example, that's probably important in this area
<didrocks> yeah, so this env variable is certainly not in the chroot ^
<Laney> I would guess that this is reproducible if you make a pkg in a PPA that has Build-Depends: chromium-browser
<oSoMoN> interesting, I'll test that
<Laney> nice that you don't have to build the browser to iterate on fixes
<Laney> did StÃ©phane avoid this for lxd by switching the seeds?
<Laney> that might be more correct btw
<oSoMoN> yeah, certainly, but it would be good to figure out the problem anyway
<oSoMoN> I don'
<Laney> it'll be hard to do the environment variable for only image builds
<oSoMoN> I don't know what StÃ©phane did, will ask him
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PyKKVNpnPm/
<Laney> can anyone explain this? :(
<Laney> there clearly is a WantedBy there
<didrocks> Laney: missing reload <unit>?
<Laney> I tried a systemctl daemon-reload
<didrocks> yeah, so not thatâ¦
<Laney> /o\
<Laney> bah
<Laney> it's to do with that drop-in file
<Laney> if I remove it, it works again
<oSoMoN> Laney, your guess seems correct, a PPA build cannot contact the snap store: https://launchpad.net/~osomon/+archive/ubuntu/foobar-test-chromium-browser-builddepends/+build/16944565
<Laney> oSoMoN: cool, so you can't really (easily) have such packages in build-depends
<Laney> unless they do something like "if [ -e /CurrentlyBuilding ]; then export SNAPPY_STORE_NO_CDN=1; fi
<oSoMoN> I guess in the case of chromium-browser that's not really a problem, who would want to build-depend on a browser anyway? but that means that seeds need to be updated to install the snap
<Laney> (package builds set that, not actually 100% sure if image ones do)
<Laney> s/set that/create that file/
<Laney> would be interesting to me to know if that env var does make it work
<oSoMoN> this comment suggests that seeds were updated when lxd was transitioned to snap:Â https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxd/+bug/1788040/comments/12
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1788040 in OpenStack LXD Charm "Replace LXD deb by snap in Ubuntu 18.10" [Medium,Triaged]
 * Laney cries
<Laney> what ever is wrong with this
<didrocks> 380 zfs tests for grub menu generation!
<ovrh> Hey everyone, I think I messed up my video drivers again and I can't figure out how to get it back to work. I installed slimbook (from the ppa) and powertop this morning to try and see if I could get longer battery life for my laptop (which I didn't), but now that I connected it back to power and my second monitor, it absolutely fails to recognize it
<ovrh> I removed slimbook and powertop already
<ovrh> But still, every time I was attaching the hdmi cable, the whole laptop would freeze slow and nothing else would happen. So I fired up nvidia-settings, switched the setting to the nvidia card from in there, and restarted, but still nothing
<ovrh> The laptop doesn't seem to freeze anymore when I plug in the monitor with the hdmi, but it doesn't appear to recognize it at all. Went in "Displays" but there's nothing there
<ovrh> Any idea what else could be messed up?
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, Laney, seb128, sorry, it looked for me that cyphermox has done it, I have even seen a fixed nm.py script what was missing.
<tkamppeter> It was this one giving me the confidence: https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/commit/?h=gir-nm&id=6fb84a283f0587a894c00dcf9f13f3c35744a5d3
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: yeah, cyphermox said he things it's hanging in a callback
<kenvandine> after his port
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: we need this fixed asap
<kenvandine> s/things/thinks :)
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, I will look into it, but I probably also do not have more GLib/gir knowledge than cyphermox.
<kenvandine> tkamppeter: poke around and find people to ask.  Maybe Laney might be able to give you some hints after you do some debugging
<tkamppeter> kenvandine, I will look into what comes out in the logs and then ask.
<Laney> yeah (although I'm off tomorrow and Monday)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i moved the USN refresh card for chromium to done based on the date the latest revision was published
<kenvandine> we now have an empty list
<kenvandine> which won't last for long :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, thanks, and sorry for not doing it myself. I have multiple builds of the various branches of chromium snap going, and each single build takes a long time to complete, so it's hard to tell for sure when the refresh is actually done
<oSoMoN> but at least it's being actively handled :)
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> the list is much more for mine since i have so many to juggle
<kenvandine> i'm just glad mine build quicker :)
<tkamppeter> cyphermox, hi
<tkamppeter> cyphermox, do you have any log from the failed nm.py after the port to gir1.2-nm-1.0?
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> it's trivial to test though, you can just run it via autopkgtest -U -s . -- qemu <whatever VM>
<tkamppeter> cyphermox, so this is what you did and where you observed the error?
<cyphermox> there is no error, it just hangs and eventually autopkgtest times out
<tkamppeter> cyphermox, OK.
<tkamppeter> cyphermox, thank you, I will try it.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-06-14
<jibel> hi all
<duflu> Morning jibel
<duflu> Must be early
<jibel> 7am
<jibel> usual time
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<apw> moin
<apw> i am running a fully up to date eoan (upgraded forever from intrepid or something)
<apw> and in the last few days I have noticed that the screensaver is no longer locking etc
<apw> anyone else seen this ?
<duflu> apw, you mean the lock screen? Not an animated screensaver
<apw> duflu, whatever the gnome defualt is, yes
<apw> the 'showing background and asking my password' thing
<apw> does not seem to be engaging any more
<apw> a manual M-l triggers it just fine and it functions correctly
<apw> and it does engage on suspend, it seems to be the timed engagement that is not working
<apw> i wonder if this settting is wrong (not that i have changed it)
<duflu> No idea, sorry. But if you can identify an offending package upgrade that would help
<apw> "Lock screen after blank for: <Screen turns off>"
<apw> what on earth does that even mean
<duflu> I suspect you're meant to ignore the "blank for" in that case
<duflu> A better design would have been to put those words in the combo box
<apw> ok i've flipped it to 5m to see if that makes more sense
<marcustomlinson> good morning jibel duflu didrocks apw
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> happy friday :)
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> could someone with upload rights please trigger this for me? https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=eoan&arch=s390x&package=libreoffice&ppa=marcustomlinson/libreoffice&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.2.4-0ubuntu2~ppa1
<marcustomlinson> didrocks: ^ ?
<didrocks> marcustomlinson: and done!
<marcustomlinson> didrocks: ðð»
<GunnarHj> jdstrand: Hi Jamie, did you see Olivier's ping at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-testing-chromium-browser-deb-to-snap-transition/11179/17 ? It would be great if the chromium snap confinement could make those (and possibly one or two more) files available to the snap.
<jibel> tseliot, I forgot to ask, do you have a list of the drivers available in each release with their version? Otherwise I'll do it.
<tseliot> jibel: no, sorry
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-08
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Hi callmepk 
<callmepk> hi duflu 
<jibel> ho all
<jibel> hi*
<duflu> Hi jibel and seb128 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you? had a good w.e?
<duflu> seb128, I'm good but the weekend was pretty average. How was yours?
<seb128> it was alright, nothing fancy but at least it was relaxing
<duflu> Though I lost a portion of it when the coffee machine broke. Then I was busy researching, replacing it and rearranging the kitchen
<duflu> They don't make/sell the cheap pod machines I use anymore, apparently
<seb128> coffee is important :) which brand did you pick after your research?
<duflu> seb128, Delongi(?)
<duflu> Delonghi
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<seb128> duflu, sounds italian :)
<seb128> lut didrocks, how are you? good w.e?
<duflu> seb128, made in Romania
<duflu> biab
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut seb128 ! Week-end sans particularitÃ© :) et toi ?
<seb128> didrocks, un peu pareil, rien de spÃ©cial :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy Monday!
<didrocks> happy Monday oSoMoN!
<luna_> morning
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN and luna_ 
<didrocks> hey luna_ 
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<oSoMoN> good morning luna_, duflu 
<marcustomlinson> g'day callmepk duflu jibel seb128 didrocks oSoMoN luna_
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson 
<luna_> hey didrocks oSoMoN marcustomlinson 
<callmepk> Hi marcustomlinson jibel seb128 didrocks oSoMoN luna_ 
<luna_> hey callmepk 
<oSoMoN> mornin' marcustomlinson, callmepk 
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> and callmepk 
<seb128> lut oSoMon, t'as passÃ© un bon w.e?
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, luna_, callmepk, how are you? had a nice w.e?
<oSoMoN> seb128, trÃ¨s bon week-end, et toi?
<seb128> bon w.e, rien de bien spÃ©cial mais reposant
<marcustomlinson> weekend was bleh to be honest
<callmepk> great! busy getting ready to move to a new apartment. and you seb128 ?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, oh :(
<seb128> callmepk, w.e was fine, we didn't do much but at least it was relaxing
<seb128> well, as relaxing as it gets with little kids around at least
<Laney> hey
<duflu> Laney
<duflu> Hi Laney
<Laney> duflu
<Laney> I liked that style of greeting
<duflu> I'm freaked out. My doorbell half tried to play Close Encounters
<duflu> It plays odd tones depending on interference
 * duflu wonders if everyone has been taken by aliens now
<luna_> is not
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> bzzzzzzzzap
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson & didrocks 
<Laney> what's up
<didrocks> noth special for this new week, and you? :)
<oSoMoN> duflu, I watched E.T. with my daughter last night, should I check my doorbell now?
<oSoMoN> sup Laney 
<duflu> oSoMoN, I'd be more concerned about her anxiety after that
<marcustomlinson> I still think it's pretty mad how ET never actually says "ET phone home"
<duflu> ð½/
<oSoMoN> no E.T. emoji?
<duflu> Don't think so...
<duflu> ð¾
<duflu>    ð¾
<duflu>    ð¾
<Laney> didrocks: made some elderflower "champagne", that's about the most interesting thing!
<Laney> hey oSoMoN 
<Laney> you good?
<didrocks> Laney: sounds interesting :)
<Laney> should be yummy
<marcustomlinson> Laney: and your house smelt of elderberries?
<Laney> yep, still does, got some left over
<marcustomlinson> :)
 * marcustomlinson thinks the monty python reference was lost there
<Laney> I've never seen monty python
<Laney> along with everything else
<Laney> well, actually, I have seen ET
<Laney> and Titanic, that's about it
<marcustomlinson> and does ET say "ET phone home"?
<marcustomlinson> well I haven't watch a single star trek, apparently that's a bad thing
<Laney> https://youtu.be/6xZif3WmG7I?t=140 seems so
<marcustomlinson> Laney: well done!
<oSoMoN> Laney, I'm good, thanks!
<Laney> youtubing is probably cheating right
 * Laney high fives oSoMoN 
<marcustomlinson> I also don't think H. G. Wells books are that great
 * marcustomlinson is gonna get shot
<oSoMoN> marcustomlinson, that's two of us then (re star trek)
<Wimpress> Morning all o/
<oSoMoN> mornin' Wimpress 
<duflu> Morning Wimpress 
<marcustomlinson> hey Wimpress
<duflu> Also good night
<sunweaver> ahayzen: oerheks: thanks
<GunnarHj> Hello Laney,
<GunnarHj> Wondering if you have any Debian contact to get a new package through the NEW queue. The reason for my question is this:
<GunnarHj> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/ibus-typing-booster_2.8.2-1.html
<GunnarHj> 6+ weeks and still no response.
<Laney> GunnarHj: No I don't have any special contacts, sorry. You can try your luck asking in #debian-ftp if you want
<GunnarHj> Laney: I might.. Are you saying that if the desktop team wants a new package in both Ubuntu and Debian, you need to wait that long? Or maybe you start with Ubuntu only...
<Laney> Depends on the situation, we might upload it to Ubuntu explicitly and then sync over when it gets into Debian later on
<GunnarHj> Laney: I see. Thanks!
<seb128> kenvandine, jamesh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1881232 sounds like something we should keep an eye on
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1881232 in snapd "AppArmor blocks ibus input when IBUS_USE_PORTAL=1" [High,Confirmed]
<jibel> xnox, hi, ubiquity 20.04.3 fails to build with a patch against partman-swapfile that fails to apply. Can you have a look?
<xnox> yeah
<kenvandine> seb128: thx
<Trevinho> seb128, Laney: Hey, so for the mutter/adwaita story... I have https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/4083.1/+packages ready in theory, but as I was telling seb on friday, the root problem seems to be https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/adwaita-icon-theme/-/commit/2c9109dfb729c0094883f08be2680505d7ed7dad as it makes not load the SVGs, now... we don't care having it in
<Trevinho> ubuntu I assume, so maybe would be just better to revert this in our adwaita and that's it?
<Trevinho> Olivier did it for the SRU
<Trevinho> so not sure if we want to preserve this change, although would imply some delta with debian, otherwise we can just include the pngs as I did and we keep less diffs with debian's debian/control
<Laney> Trevinho: root issue with what?
<Trevinho> Laney: of the mutter build failure
<Trevinho> well test failure
<Laney> it's built in that silo
<Laney> what's the remaining issue?
<Trevinho> Laney: the silo is fine, I was just mentioning that there's another way to fix this, if we prefer that way
<Trevinho> if you're fine with that, then please publish it :)
<Laney> ah
<Laney> but you're talking about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adwaita-icon-theme/3.36.1-2ubuntu2 no?
<Laney> we could consider dropping the .svgs because of this couldn't we?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, well if we prefer to have just pngs then the fix I did is fine
<Laney> Trevinho: point is we don't *just* have pngs, we have the svgs too, i'm saying those could be dropped to save some space
<Laney> or is there some reason to have those?
<Laney> bah mutter isn't in desktop set either
<Trevinho> Laney: well, I think we can drop the svgs if we don't depend in the loader anyway
<Laney> right
<seb128> the sets are about to be updated which should fix adwaita, we should ask to add others problematic ones to the exceptions if needed
<Laney> the sets are already updated
<seb128> ah
<seb128> Trevinho, so you should have access to upload adwaita now :)
<Laney> silo is copied
<seb128> thx
<seb128> I don't know much about those icons
<seb128> but do we have png for all useful sizes? if we drop the .svg isn't that going to create issues at some sizes?
<Trevinho> seb128: I don't think, at the end yaru has them all in svgs
<Trevinho> so for the desktop as whole, I wouldn't bother
<seb128> why do we install adwaita at all if yaru has all the icons?
<seb128> sorry for the naive questions :p
<Laney> laney@nightingale> dpkg -L adwaita-icon-theme | grep --color=none svg | xargs ls -1 -l | awk '{print $5}' | paste -sd+ | bc                                                                                                       ~
<Laney> 526149
<Laney> its not a huge saving anyway
<Laney> (yaru might want to think about encoding them to pngs too, apparently its way faster to load those)
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<marcustomlinson> hi hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi guys!
 * Laney nods hellsworth 
 * hellsworth raises coffee mug to cheers Laney from a distance
<didrocks> hey hey hellsworth 
<hellsworth> o/ didrocks 
<jdstrand> jamesh: hey, re bug #1881232, can you comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1881232/comments/1 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1881232 in snapd "AppArmor blocks ibus input when IBUS_USE_PORTAL=1" [High,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-09
<mwhudson> do any of you guys maintain nux still?
<mwhudson> it looks like it just needs to stop passing -Werror
<callmepk> good morning
<duflu> Morning callmepk 
<callmepk> morning duflu 
<jibel> hi all
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi jibel and seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, average to good today. You?
<seb128> I'm alright
<didrocks> good morning
<luna_> morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks and luna_ 
<didrocks> hey luna_, duflu 
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<marcustomlinson> morning diskdroppers
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<didrocks> after seb and his launchpaddid :)
<marcustomlinson> morning didrockers
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey oSoMoN
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN and marcustomlinson 
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu
<Laney> yo
<Laney> mwhudson: feel free to JFDI that I'd say
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, Laney 
<Laney> ^/w 47
<Laney> ah
<Laney> AHHHH
<Laney> AHHHHHHHHH
<Laney> hey oSoMoN 
<didrocks> good morning Laney 
<Laney> \o didrocks 
<duflu> Morning Laney
<mwhudson> Laney: i jf did it
<mwhudson> (and it migrated even, amazing)
<Laney> YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<Laney> hey duflu 
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master 0c0e758 Marco Trevisan * pushed 28 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/OYY2
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master 3130772 Jonas Ãdahl src/backends/x11/ cm/meta-renderer-x11-cm.c cm/meta-renderer-x11-cm.h meta-stage-x11.c meta-stage-x11.h * stage-x11: Move view management to renderer * https://deb.li/3hiOC
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master 63fc71f Jonas Ãdahl src/backends/meta-screen-cast-stream-src.c * screen-cast-src: Notify about the stream being closed after dispatch * https://deb.li/v5Th
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master a1bc2e0 Carlos Garnacho src/backends/x11/meta-seat-x11.c * backends/x11: Implement ClutterSeat::touch-mode for the X11 backend * https://deb.li/3o7Pc
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master b425f11 Carlos Garnacho clutter/clutter/clutter-seat.c src/backends/native/meta-seat-native.c src/backends/native/meta-seat-native.h * backends/native: Drop external keyboard detection for ::touch-mode * https://deb.li/S7B7
<KGB-1> mutter ubuntu/master c211f7b Simon McVittie (16 files in 7 dirs) * New upstream version 3.36.2+12+gb425f1153 * https://deb.li/3bYKd
<KGB-1> mutter signed tags 9638346 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.3-1ubuntu1 * mutter Debian release 3.36.3-1ubuntu1 * https://deb.li/3gS3F
<Laney> \o\ 
<Laney> early morning for you Trevinho!
<Trevinho> eheh, well not too much :-D
<KGB-2> mutter signed tags abb45f0 Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.1 * mutter Debian release 3.36.3-0ubuntu0.20.04.1 * https://deb.li/a7my
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 6d9d9b6 Marco Trevisan * pushed 21 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3uYj4
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal fadfca2 Carlos Garnacho src/backends/meta-remote-desktop-session.c * backends: Ensure remote desktop dbus interface state * https://deb.li/rAHV
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 3daf912 Carlos Garnacho src/backends/meta-remote-desktop-session.c * backends: Make uniform checks on remote desktop input dbus methods * https://deb.li/3I2sg
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 36f5a0a Carlos Garnacho src/wayland/ meta-wayland-data-device.c meta-wayland-data-device.h * wayland: Send clipboard offers to all data devices from the same client * https://deb.li/MnbN
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 493aeb6 Carlos Garnacho src/wayland/ meta-wayland-data-device.c meta-wayland-data-device.h * wayland: Send primary offer to all data devices from the same client * https://deb.li/ikrUx
<KGB-2> mutter ubuntu/focal 6e6183e Jonas Ãdahl src/backends/ meta-renderer.c meta-renderer.h x11/nested/meta-renderer-x11-nested.c * renderer: Change 'set_legacy_view()' to 'add_view()' * https://deb.li/fYJV
<KGB-2> gnome-shell signed tags ad3719d Marco Trevisan ubuntu/3.36.3-1ubuntu1_20.04.1 * gnome-shell Debian release 3.36.3-1ubuntu1~20.04.1 * https://deb.li/iW7Dx
<Trevinho> gbp forgot some tags...
<oSoMoN> seb128, do you reckon https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blobandconquer/1.11-dfsg+20-1.1ubuntu1/+build/19429052 is worth blindly retrying ? ("Build killed with signal TERM after 150 minutes of inactivity")
<seb128> oSoMoN, it probably is, I clicked the button, let's see
<seb128> oSoMoN, seems to be hanging on the retry :/
<oSoMoN> darn
<seb128> oSoMoN, https://github.com/alexdantas/zatacka.debian/pull/3 you fixed the build-depends but not the depends, I fixed the patch for Ubuntu but I can't push to your salsa branch, could you fix the mp there?
<oSoMoN> seb128, zatacka only has "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}"
<seb128> oSoMoN, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/345576849/zatacka_0.1.8-5_0.1.8-5.1.diff.gz
<seb128> that's missing in the Vcs
<seb128> so alright, your mp is fine, sorry for the false warning
<seb128> mitya57, hey, do you know how the desktop is handled in gnome-flashback? I'm trying to understand bug #1882531
<ubot5> bug 1882531 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "desktop context not localized" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882531
<mitya57> seb128: gnome-flashback now handles the desktop itself. It is the new code, most likely just not translated to German yet.
<mitya57> I think you can reassign it to gnome-flashback.
<seb128> mitya57, can you reassign/comment?
<seb128> or I can do it if you prefer
<seb128> also do you know why it's being implemented there again rather than using the existing extension?
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun  9 13:30:12 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic:
<kenvandine> o/
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), heather, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<marcustomlinson> \o
<Trevinho> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<seb128> ok, let's get started
<Laney> o\o\o\o\
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1881811
<ubot5> bug 1881811 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Groovy) "Values cleared when scrolling in standard filter dialog" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881811
<hellsworth> o/
<hellsworth> oh right just in time.. it's a super minor corner case but a real bug nonetheless
<seb128> which has been nominated without waiting for the tag review
<hellsworth> seb128: what do you mean? i added the incomming tags
<seb128> the bug has lines for bionic/focal/groovy
<seb128> which are unassigned by existing
<hellsworth> oh just because it exists in all of them so i added all 3 incoming tags
<seb128> the nomination process is usually that we add those lines when we accept the nomination
<seb128> no
<hellsworth> oh i see
<seb128> someone did 'Target to series'
<seb128> and added those series
<hellsworth> that was me
<seb128> k
<hellsworth> ok sorry about that
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> so going back to the topic
<hellsworth> k
<seb128> it's existing in bionic already, had one report, is cosmetic and seems minor/corner case
<seb128> I would vote wontfix
<hellsworth> i agree
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, the bug hasn't been confirmed upstream, did you intend to work on a fix yourself? if not, I'd say wontfix
<hellsworth> i did not intend to work on it myself
<seb128> k, so we have agreeemnt on wontfix
<seb128> I will do that and delete the targetting, otherwise it will show up in our next section of targetted by not assigned bugs
<hellsworth> i think i need some process discussion separately :)
<hellsworth> ok thanks seb128 
<seb128> k, let's do that ehre after we are done with the meeting
<seb128> or in query if you prefer
<hellsworth> yes
<seb128> that's it for incoming
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1881094	
<ubot5> bug 1881094 in OEM Priority Project "Support kernel 5.4 Intel sound driver on bionic" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881094
<seb128> k, so it's an oem request and they are on it
<seb128> so I think nomination makes sense I'm just going to assign to Kai who submitted the patch
<Laney> someone need to sponsor it or?
<seb128> probably, I've added to my backlog
<seb128> pulseaudio is busy atm, there is already another SRU in process so we need to clear that one off before
<seb128> but yeah, I will handle the uploading part
<Laney> good, it sucks in focal :p
<seb128> focal is grrr
 * Laney had another 'no outputs, no inputs' after starting a session today
<seb128> since we regressed build on riscv which is blocking the current SRU
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> let's not get sidetracked too much :p
<seb128> next
<seb128> bug #1881137
<ubot5> bug 1881137 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-440-server (Ubuntu Focal) "Introduce the new NVIDIA 418-server and 440-server series, and update the current NVIDIA drivers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881137
<Wimpress> I thought we assigned that one last week?
<seb128> I just understood what it means for the ubuntu-drivers-common to be grey
<seb128> you guys said it was deleted
<seb128> but it needs to be delete for bionic/focal as well
<seb128> I'm doing that now
<seb128> k, now u-d-c really vanished
<seb128> sorry for the confusing
<seb128> bug #1881811	
<ubot5> bug 1881811 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Values cleared when scrolling in standard filter dialog" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881811
<seb128> that's the one we discussed earlier
<seb128> bug #1882042
<ubot5> bug 1882042 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] Linux,Ubuntu,18.4,CI,OLP15,PRTS, Audio/video is out of sync/lag when enter Suspend during playback" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882042
<seb128> another oem/pulseaudio
<seb128> I assign to Hui and I'm going to do a batched upload with the other fix
<seb128> k, that's it for bionic
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> noise aside there is bug #1882402
<ubot5> bug 1882402 in ubuntu-drivers-common (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu-drivers allows installation of (nvidia-340) drivers, which are broken/break things (Kubuntu 20.04)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882402
<seb128> (I will try to clean the remaining noise after the meeting)
<seb128> tseliot, ^ do you know about this? is that something that needs to be owned/targetted?
<seb128> it doesn't seem to have enough information to be decided on to me
<seb128> looks like a driver bug maybe?
<seb128> I vote wontfix for now, or at least incomplete with info needed
<tseliot> seb128, definitely incomplete
<Wimpress> It's an interesting GPU hybrid configuration for sure.
<tseliot> yes, we haven't enabled that yet
<tseliot> I have a MP in a branch, and support for that will land sooner or later, just not with the 340 driver
<seb128> k, I've notfixed it and asked for at least an apport-collect
<seb128> tseliot, feel free to comment as well if you have more informations
<seb128> let's move on
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1881540
<ubot5> bug 1881540 in zsys (Ubuntu Focal) "Enable trim support for ugprading users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881540
<didrocks> TBH, all zsys tasks are backport from 0.5
<seb128> didrocks, you nominated it do you plan to own the focal part? should it be assigned to you?
<Laney> I don't think we need to consider that for rls or not, just assign it
<didrocks> seb128: they are all assigned normally, launchpad may have timeouted
<seb128> k, fixing
<didrocks> thx :)(
<Laney> MINUS ONE DONT FIX IT EVER
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks> tooooooooooooooo late
<didrocks> can regress if you wish :)
<seb128> :p
<seb128> bug #1882583
<ubot5> bug 1882583 in software-properties (Ubuntu Groovy) "[SRU] Enable support for Victoria Cloud Archive" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1882583
<seb128> Corey is handling those so I'm just assigning to him
<seb128> (he pinged me on IRC yesterday)
<seb128> that's it for focal
<seb128> #topic rls-gg-bug
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic: rls-gg-bug
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1881699
<ubot5> bug 1881699 in linux (Ubuntu) "No analog output" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1881699
<jibel> please fix it ;)
<seb128> pulseaudio didn't change since focal
<seb128> sounds like rather a kernel bug from Daniel's comment?
<seb128> unsure what to do with it to be honest
<seb128> I would tend to rls-gg-notfixing since that's one report and pulseaudio didn't change
<jibel> to be honest audio is a terrible experience
<seb128> other opinions?
<Laney> get it tried on another machine?
<hellsworth> if it's a kernel issue, could we reassign it to kernel?
<seb128> it has a linux target already
<Laney> I do agree we have some problems with audio at least from my experiences here
<Laney> so would be good to get a bit of investigation done to discover the extent
<jibel> with my previous machine is was terrible too
<seb128> I agree with the audio situation being suboptimal
<jibel> but not having analog output when you plug an audio jack is really bad 
<seb128> I'm going to card some investigation on the board
<seb128> but we are limited in capacity until we get that job opening again :/
<seb128> does it work on focal on the same machine? (e.g from a live session)
<jibel> I can try
<seb128> thx
<seb128> I will try on my xps with a daily iso later on
<seb128> f and g
<seb128> keeping it tagged meanwhile so we can rediscuss next week with more data
<jibel> people on various forums have been reporting similar issues on Carbon X1 7gen
<jibel> I'm ready to help debugging the issue if anyone has the knowledge to investigate
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1860697
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1860697 in linux (Ubuntu) "Sound doesn't work on Lenovo X1 Carbon 7th with 20.04" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> anyway, we should investigate/talk to oem about the carbon 7th situation if it's still an issue
<seb128> but let's do that out of the meeting
<seb128> moving on
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the items there have been discussed
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> so
<seb128> xorg-server/r-cran-gwidgetstcltk
<seb128> the r-cran problems are being investigated by people on +1 maintenance from the reports
<seb128> glib/libxmlb http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libx/libxmlb/groovy/amd64
<seb128> could be real
<seb128> does anyone want to poke at that one?
<seb128> libreoffice/s390x is waiting on the fontforge fix that is fix commited in Debian to land
<seb128>  network-manager-applet (1.8.24-1ubuntu2 to 1.16.0-1ubuntu1) in proposed for 5 days
<seb128>     Depends on libnma
<seb128> that needs MIR team to react to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnma/+bug/1881906
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1881906 in libnma (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libnma" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> didrocks, do you know if it's fine to just promote since that's a split of existing code to a new source?
<seb128> (network-manager-applet's library moved out to its own component)
<didrocks> seb128: it just needs some soft packaging check, I can do it for EOW if you donât mind
<seb128> didrocks, would be nice, thanks
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozjs68/68.9.0-1/+build/19405581
<seb128>  Missing build dependencies: libemail-address-xs-perl 
<seb128> I need to raise that on #ubuntu-release, I don't understand what's going on
<seb128> according to rmadison that binary is missing on i386
<seb128> but it built on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libemail-address-xs-perl/1.04-1build2/+build/17929789
<seb128> udisks2 failures need investigation, I did that sync I will look at the problem
<seb128> gnome-shell probably just needs a retry after Trevinho's fixes landed
<seb128> and that's it
<seb128> so anyone interested to poke to libxmlb's failure?
<seb128> I will card, feel free to grab it, if no-one does it will be assigned
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-06-09 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> anything else?
<Wimpress> Not for me. 
<didrocks> nothing
<oSoMoN> I'll take a look at the libxmlb failures, please assign the card to me
<seb128> oSoMoN, thanks
<seb128> k, on that note let's wrap
<Trevinho> seb128: I may look that build issue in a s390x cloud instance
<seb128> thanks team!
<kenvandine> :)
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> #endmeetin
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.36 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/z29JJK3q/gnome-336
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun  9 14:09:56 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-06-09-13.30.moin.txt
<Laney> that mozjs thing is weird
<seb128> Trevinho, gnome-shell you mean?
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> Laney, I'm wondering if the first thing to try is just a no change rebuild upload?
<Laney> The following packages have unmet dependencies: lintian : Depends: libemail-address-xs-perl but it is not installable
<seb128> Trevinho, it should simply be retried now that that adwaita fixes landed no?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, although it's true that mutter-common should be there for such archs,
<Trevinho> seb128: should
<seb128> hellsworth, if you had process questions you can ask now
<hellsworth> right ok.. so when there's a new bug that exists, no matter how many series, it should only be tagged incomming for the development series - correct?
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: why did you ask if i was planning on fixing the 1881811? what did i do that indicated that?
<Trevinho> Laney: even weirder as it's in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libemail-address-xs-perl/1.04-1build2
<Trevinho> but.... https://packages.ubuntu.com/groovy/libemail-address-xs-perl has not the i386?
<Trevinho> ah, well it's never there, so...
<seb128> hellsworth, the tagging is not an issue, you can tag for any serie you think it should be consider for
<Trevinho> but still, it built 
<hellsworth> ok can tag but just don't "target"
<seb128> the point I was raising/discussing is the 'target to serie'
<seb128> yes
<hellsworth> ok gotcha
<seb128> well you can target if you plan to work on fixes for those series
<seb128> it's up to you as a maintainer
<seb128> it's just by team policy we don't want targetted but unowned items
<luna_> Desktop Meeting in 2 hours or it has already been right?
<seb128> luna_, it just finished
<hellsworth> but it would be possible to say we'll fix some of the series and not others. but having them all targeted in the bug at least documents that it's a known wontfix issue in those series
<luna_> seb128: ah will read the log after i am done watching some Dreamhack Online CS:Go Tourney
<luna_> thanks
<hellsworth> seb128: ok so only target to series i plan on fixing, right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> and then assign
<hellsworth> (and after a discussion with the team)
<hellsworth> ok
<seb128> we don't have a good way to mark things as impacting a serie
<seb128> or to tell them appart of things we commited to fix/consider important
<seb128> so we decided to just target for things important enough to be owned and tracked
<hellsworth> ok.. yeah i was looking at targeting to mean impacting
<seb128> right, in theory targetting as you did is right
<hellsworth> thanks. makes more sense now.
<seb128> but it doesn't play nicely with our precess atm
<seb128> np!
<hellsworth> :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, IÂ forget, do we have this process documented somewhere? it's not obvious how it works for external observers/newcomers
<hellsworth> good question..
<Laney> seb128: the problem is lintian isn't installable
<Laney> I think that libemail-address-xs-perl thing needs bringing back
<Laney> probably a new dep
<seb128> oSoMoN, not that I can remember sorry
<seb128> Laney, no change upload needed or is there another way?
<oSoMoN> that would be a good thing to do, at some point
<seb128> I think people mentioned copy over itself?
<seb128> oSoMoN, it's likely it exists but I just don't know where... maybe ask bdmurray if he knows?
<Laney> copying back probably works
<Laney> let me try
<seb128> thx
<Laney> can't make copy-package do what I want
<Trevinho> seb128: g-s built though https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.36.3-1ubuntu2/+build/19413155
<seb128> Trevinho, great
<oSoMoN> seb128, the libxmlb test failures seem to be transient, I managed to reproduce only once in a chroot, other test runs pass. can you retry?
<seb128> oSoMoN, done, would still be good to report upstream if possible
<oSoMoN> yes
<oSoMoN> running the test in an infinite loop, IÂ managed to trigger the failure again
<seb128> oSoMoN, so yeah, probably just unlucky that it failed twice in a row on the infra, or depending of the performances of the machine/load/something
<oSoMoN> yeah, we will soon know, the test started running again
<didrocks> fed up with the Shell locking up on the shield
<didrocks> then kill -> it restarts, but you have a black screen
<didrocks> go to gdm and try unlocking -> just switch tty
<didrocks> but still black screen with the cursor
<didrocks> and if you kill the session, go back to gdm, log in again
<didrocks> you have the wallpaper and shield again (which you can unlock this time)
<didrocks> no crash file, nothing
<didrocks> and nothing in logs I can spot :/
<didrocks> (apart from a bunch of juin 09 17:33:54 casanier audit[562537]: AVC apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="snap.snap-store.ubuntu-software" name="/var/lib/snapd/hostfs/usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache" pid=562537 comm="p>)
<didrocks> and I need to reboot because the mic is locked
<didrocks> bbiab
<Laney> seb128: could you merge lp:~/ubuntu-archive-tools/libemail-address-xs-perl and then run the script pls?
<Laney> needed to get the binary to come back
<seb128> Laney, that ~ was confusing :p merged/pushed
<Laney> heh
<Laney> you need to ./update-i386-whitelist https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/i386.focal/i386+build-depends.sources
<seb128> Laney, still focal or groovy in the url?
<seb128> I did it with groovy, it's printed output but I don't understand what's it's doing / how then?
<Laney> I guess groovy yeah
<Laney> didn't notice that
<seb128> did that act/did what is expected?
<Laney> ah sigh
<Laney> it's got focal hardcoded in the source
<seb128> ah, it's prompting me to commit to the packageset, I hadn't noticed that prompt
<Laney> I think you need to pass '-s groovy' or fix default_release in the source
<seb128> k
<seb128> oSoMoN, libxmlb retry worked
<seb128> Laney, k, commited, hopefully I did the right thing/it works
<Laney> seb128: looks like it's there, thx!
 * Laney tries the copy again
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, thanks! I'm filing an upstream bug
<seb128> Laney, thx for guiding me with the steps
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx
<Laney> np
<oSoMoN> IÂ can make the test fail with the old libglib2.0 too, so the issue is not triggered specifically by the version in -proposed
<Laney> didn't appear on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/groovy/i386/libemail-address-xs-perl tho
 * Laney tries copying from focal
<Laney> now that did work!
<Laney> so should automatically clear out the mozjs68 build once that publishes et
<Laney> c
<luna_> Reading the log now :)
<didrocks> xnox: was the diff in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/481850660/partman-swapfile_1_2.diff.gz on create_swapfile intended? This isnât mentioned in the changelog (only the other change is) and ubiquity has exactly this patch (hence the FTBFS on your ubiquity upload)
<xnox> didrocks:  i know, i am fixing it.
<xnox> didrocks:  i think like years ago i uploaded the patch to experimental. but it was stuck in NEW.
<xnox> didrocks:  hence i "distro patched it in ubiquity"
<xnox> didrocks:  many years pass
<xnox> didrocks:  i finally bother to sync partman-swapfile
<xnox> didrocks:  so comparing that the things are the same, and then will drop the distro patch
<xnox> (from the vendored stuff inside ubiquity)
<didrocks> xnox: my other theory was a cp from ubiquity/debian/lib back on the second upload by error :p
<xnox> didrocks:  it's part towards cleaning everything up in ubiquity
<xnox> hahhahahhaha
<xnox> didrocks:  i think it is intentional finish.d should not be interactive
<didrocks> yeah, sounds better
<xnox> original UX was bad
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozjs68/68.9.0-1/+build/19405581 woot
<callmepk> good morning
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-10
<jibel> morning all
<duflu> Hi jibel 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128. How goes?
<seb128> duflu, hey! a bit tired but alright, you?
<duflu> jibel, btw those AMD stats are still ~1% (?)
<duflu> seb128, yeah I got a reasonable sleep so feel good. Could be better though. Still experimenting with new pillows
<jibel> duflu, I didn't have a look yet
<jibel> salut seb128 
<seb128> lut jibel, comment Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<luna_> morning
<jibel> seb128, Ã§a va bien, on avance bien sur l'encryption, c'est motivant
<didrocks> good afternoon duflu 
<seb128> jibel, super :)
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va ?
<seb128> hey luna_
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va aussi :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<marcustomlinson> morning callmepk jibel duflu seb128 didrocks luna_ oSoMoN
<callmepk> Morning marcustomlinson jibel duflu seb128 didrocks luna_ oSoMoN 
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, callmepk, oSoMoN 
<seb128> lot oSoMoN, hey marcustomlinson, callmepk, how are you today?
<oSoMoN> morning marcustomlinson, callmepk, didrocks, seb128 & everyone else :)
<marcustomlinson> seb128, hey! a bit tired but alright ;)
<callmepk> I am great! how are you seb128?
<seb128> callmepk, I'm alright thanks
<duflu> Hi marcustomlinson, callmepk, oSoMoN, world
<Laney> \o
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<duflu> Hi Laney
<Laney> hey seb128 duflu 
<Laney> yeah doing good, don't know why we have this second winter though, that's not ok imo
<Laney> you?
<duflu> I'll swap you. We're over a week into actual winter and it's still 24 degrees
<Laney> It's going to peak at like 13 today
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<Laney> Definitely up for a swap
<Laney> hey didrocks!
<didrocks> cking: hey, FYI, after a final round of testing Iâm going to upload zfs-linux if you donât have anything else to upload. It readds zsys support which was dropped in previous debian merge by accident I guess, add encryption support and now that the upstream PR on the dep loop with encryption is accepted (not merged yet), Iâm backporting it.
<popey> Hey. My laptop ran out of space in /boot (zfs) 131MB size and each initrd was 82MB so it blew up. I tried updating, but for some reason my laptop locked up (i915 issue). I rebooted and now it won't even give me grub. Is there a "boot from live cd, and here's how you mount zfs pools to fix it" type guide?
<didrocks> popey: I donât think there is this guide, but it will be good to have. In groovy, we blocked autosnapshotting when reaching 80% of max capacity (the SRU is waiting for reviews). The fact that grub doesnât even start is another bug assigned to foundation (but from their meeting discussion, it sounded like itâs a WONT FIX for them)
<didrocks> so, we only have a mitigation on the ZSys side, but it will be good to have at least grub fixed to prevent this to happen (even without snapshots, you can file up your ZFS disk and then, canât boot)
<juliank> popey, didrocks I had a user on reddit recently that had issues with recovery as well, I got him to mount datasets individually which worked for him, as automatic mounting was borked or something, despite the pool being i,ported to /mnt
<juliank> popey: FWIW, the steps should be zpool import BPOOL /mnt, zfs mount -a AFAIUI
<juliank> and then you should see it in /mnt/boot AFAIUI
<juliank> but I might be wrong
<juliank> their grub only got to a commandline, it was terrible
<juliank> and I guess zpool import and individual zfs mount per dataset would work too
<didrocks> I think you meant zpool import rpool -R /mnt && zpool import bpool -R /mnt/boot && mount /dev/sda1 (if efi is there) /mnt/boot/efi && mount --bind /mnt/boot/efi/grub /mnt/boot/grub
<didrocks> so that you can chroot then in /mnt and do what you need
<juliank> ah yes, you need to run grub-mkconfig/update-grub
<didrocks> juliank: FYI, the grub issue is bug #1867542
<ubot5> bug 1867542 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub stuck on loading kernel, fails to ls zfs and swap partitions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867542
<cking> didrocks, i'm not going to upload zfs in the next 10 days or so
<cking> so please feel free to upload
<didrocks> cking: will do! There is some unknown if the upstream PR is really fixing the issue. Iâm going to upload it and track upstream development, commenting there as needed
<cking> i'm only planning to add kernel driver related bugfixes now such as compat shims for 5.8+ kernels etc
<cking> and they can wait until you are done
<didrocks> ack, Iâm going to upload right now (j_ibel and I just finished testing)
<cking> cool
<didrocks> will be good for us to talk about the performance discussion we started whenever you have time
<cking> the latest code as the AES crypto accelleration and I've SRU'd the first round of this to focal
<Laney> seb128: when you get a minute you can revert that change to the i386 script we did yesterday (just the script bit)
<Laney> it appears in the output now so doesn't need a special case any more
<popey> didrocks (sorry, was afk). Well that's disappointing. I guess I need to figure out a way to recover the data on my laptop and wipe it
<didrocks> cking: I meant the other discussion, where Matt raised about init_on_alloc
<cking> didrocks, ah, yes, that's on my TODO list for next week
<didrocks> popey: feel free to raise it on the bug I linked, I agree that grub not booting is concerning
<didrocks> cking: excellent!
<didrocks> popey: tell me if the commands I gave is working for you
<didrocks> we can turn that into a wiki page on zsys project
<didrocks> popey: I hope our ZSys 0.4.6 will hit focal soon (once out of UNAPPROVED), which will mitigate the issue, but not prevent people to file up their disks with ZFS and making grub not booting
<popey> will do. i'm on vacation so booted into windows right now. need to get this fixed before next week. will have a play with it later.
<didrocks> popey: keep us posted and enjoy your holidays :)
<popey> will do, thanks.
<ricotz> oSoMoN, thanks for the firefox patches :)
<oSoMoN> ricotz, you're welcome, I'm glad you noticed and this didn't conflict with the update to 78.0~b5
<seb128> Laney, you are confident it's not needed anymore? there are other similars entries in the script that haven't been cleared out in the past so I prefer to check (sorry, days are short enough atm so I don't want to spend time trying to understand what's happening exactly with the bootstraping and the i386 process)
<Laney> seb128: well, try remove it and run the script on dry-run, but yeah I am
<seb128> Laney, confirmed and commited
<Laney> danke!
<seb128> bitte!
<ogra> tsk ... germans 
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there oSoMoN :)
<oSoMoN> seb128, tjaalton: for xorg-server 2:1.20.8-2ubuntu3, the r-cran-gwidgetstcltk autopkgtests on armhf and ppc64el need to be retried with an additional trigger on the version in proposed (r-cran-gwidgetstcltk/0.0-55.1-3)
<seb128> oSoMoN, thx, I'm doing that
<oSoMoN> cheers
<tjaalton> oSoMoN: ah, I forgot that part earlier today
<kenvandine> sigh... libjpeg triggered another USN refresh of like everything
<seb128> :(
<seb128> snaps are hard work to maintain
<Laney> wtb auto rebuild + re-publish on USN
<seb128> would be nice
<oSoMoN> this requires at least some minimal amount of automated testing, but yeah, that would be nice (and something we should work on)
<kenvandine> i'
<kenvandine> i've got some automation
<kenvandine> i'd really like to trigger the rebuilds from trello :)
<kenvandine> card created -> rebuild -> move to needs testing when the build finishes
<kenvandine> last week it was time consuming because i had some snaps that were failing to build since branching gnome-3-36 and some others that needed updating so i did it all at once
<marcustomlinson> lp scripting ftw
<marcustomlinson> youâll also need to do things like build sdk snaps before platform snaps before app snaps
<marcustomlinson> oh actually, the sdk would need to be published to stable before the platform picks it up
 * marcustomlinson tries pulling his spanner out of the works
<marcustomlinson> kenvandine, do platform snaps still build from candidate sdk snaps?
<kenvandine>  candidate
<marcustomlinson> ok ignore my comment about publishing to stable first then
<kenvandine> but still, we need to trigger the platform from the sdk build
<marcustomlinson> right
<marcustomlinson> and having the apps build after sdk and platform snaps is nice because itâll confirm they build with the new bases
<marcustomlinson> Oh sorry no, those do pull from stable
<kenvandine> YEAH
<kenvandine> whoops :)
<kenvandine> what i really want is build.snapcraft.io to support gitlab like it does for github
<kenvandine> then we can use the API to trigger builds 
<kenvandine> and
<kenvandine> we'll get more builds for free
<marcustomlinson> but your automated test thingies from cwayne confirm apps build with new platform builds right?
<kenvandine> that doesn't build
<kenvandine> it's a screenshot of the running app from the candidate channel
<marcustomlinson> ah, but against a candidate platform?
<kenvandine> so when a content snap is updated i can quickly see that some of the snaps load and look right
<kenvandine> yes
<marcustomlinson> or candidate apps using stable platform :P
<kenvandine> and gtk-common-themes from candidate
<marcustomlinson> ok cool
<marcustomlinson> just checking ;)
<marcustomlinson> so technically it should be: build sdk snaps -> build platform snaps -> test -> release -> build app snaps -> test -> release
<marcustomlinson> that first test would have to be against test snaps
<marcustomlinson> ones that build against the new sdk
<marcustomlinson> perhaps cwayne could add a build step to the testing?
<marcustomlinson> /s/new/candidate
<marcustomlinson> anywho :) goodnight all
<hellsworth> ogra: is there something special i need to do to get UC20 to boot in kvm? I've tried my same qemu-virgil command used for ubuntu-core-18-amd64.img, but used on the current beta of ubuntu-core-20-amd64.img and i just get a preboot screen saying invalid signature.
<ogra> there should be an unsigned image ... not sure the signed one works i kvm (better ask in #snappy, i haent done much with core20 yet... specifically on obsolete arches like x86 ð )
<ogra> *havent
<hellsworth> ha
<hellsworth> ok
<hellsworth> thanks
<PaulePanter> Dell Lattitude and Precision laptop get into a state, where they do not boot with power cable unplugged. :/
<PaulePanter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1661741
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1661741 in Dell Sputnik "[Dell Inc. Latitude E5470] suspend/resume failure" [High,Fix released]
<PaulePanter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1871491
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1871491 in Dell Sputnik "Dell Precision 7740: Resume failures related to AC/battery" [Undecided,New]
<PaulePanter> Any help appreciated.
<PaulePanter> They are part of Dellâs Sputnik program, so I am pretty suprised, there is such a bug, and nobody cares.
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-11
<guiverc> has anyone been able to write groovy ISO to thumb-drive & boot on hardware; I grabbed ubu-stud, xub, ubu, kubu, sunday night (AU est) & all failed, again grabbed with lubu & failed too.. groovy; 4 thumb-drives & written from two boxes..  (repeat of #ubuntu+1 question; "unable to find medium container a live file system \n Attempt interactive netboot from a URL?"
<duflu> A month ago, yes :) I haven't tried it since then
<guiverc> thanks duflu, I zsync'd lubuntu sunday morning (melb time) & no issues... today fail ... but I seem to wear-out thumb-drives thus why I've not raised lp bug report..
<guiverc> the issue maybe only on old BIOS boxes; just booted on EUFI thingy & getting different reaction..
<guiverc> i can boot 20.04 (groovy daily) on uefi box, not older BIOS (multiple boxes tried)
<guiverc> i'll raise a bug report...  :) thanks duflu 
<guiverc> it's not all BIOS boxes; impacts only older (maybe)
<duflu> guiverc, I've just grabbed the latest image and will do some evening testing soon. You can also make modern machines into legacy "BIOS" machines in the BIOS settings
<guiverc> duflu, I've now tested numerous boxes, mentioned in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/1883040 ; most BIOS actually pass it turns out..
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1883040 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "groovy daily won't boot anymore on some older BIOS boxes" [Undecided,New]
<duflu> Stupid me. I've been advocating for years that people should download each daily image to help ISO triage, and I didn't
<guiverc> we gotta work within the number of hours in our day
<duflu> I mean "ISO bisection"
<guiverc> xnox, no focal ISO at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/408/builds/214469/downloads - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/1876525
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1876525 in Ubuntu QA Website "Link to download information - results in 404 not found" [Undecided,New]
<duflu> guiverc, try http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/focal/daily-live/
<guiverc> thanks duflu 
<guiverc> I'll grab it tonight.. (avoid bandwidth quota issues.. zsync says heaps of change..)
<jibel> guiverc, I fixed the links for lubuntu and ubuntu. I've to go through each series manually. It'll take a moment to fix them all
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks 
<duflu> Hi jibel, didrocks, oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<guiverc> thank you jibel 
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, duflu 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<jibel> hello world
<duflu> Hi seb128 
<didrocks> salut jibel 
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, jibel 
<duflu> Back in a bit
<marcustomlinson> good morning duflu jibel didrocks oSoMoN seb128
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson 
<jibel> didrocks, salut
<jibel> didrocks, does https://paste.debian.net/1151539/ look good to you?
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, I didnât spot any typos compared to yesterday
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson 
<PaulePanter> If Canonical people working on Dell (Sputnik project) and with contact to Dell are in here, itâd be great if you looked at https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1871491.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1871491 in Dell Sputnik "Dell Precision 7740: Resume failures related to AC/battery" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> hey duflu didrocks jibel marcustomlinson oSoMoN, how is it going today?
<jibel> today is wet
<jibel> like it's raining all the sky forgot to rain over the last 3 months
<seb128> PaulePanter, hey, the most recent comment on that bug state it was a bios issue and fixed with the update published by Dell, what do you expect us to look at exactly?
<seb128> jibel, enjoy being sitting at the computer in a dry place :)
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128, yeah doing alright, you?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm fine thanks!
<didrocks> (enjoyâ¦ doing perl and debian patches :p)
<seb128> good old perl!
<didrocks> old -> yeah
<didrocks> good -> we can debate :p
<didrocks> perl -> definitively perl
<jibel> I switched to emacs to write debian patches in perl
<jibel> somethings wrong with me today obviously
<didrocks> too many wrong things in one sentence
<didrocks> it could be worse with s/write/read
<oSoMoN> seb128, I'm good, thanks! it's been raining heavily for the past two days here, and the sky is still very grey, looking forward to the sun coming back
<seb128> hopefully for the w.e ;)
<PaulePanter> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1866343
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1866343 in Dell Sputnik "Dell Latitude 5480/5488: Resume failures related to AC/battery state" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<PaulePanter> seb128: The last comment in https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1661741 asks to re-open the report.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1661741 in Dell Sputnik "[Dell Inc. Latitude E5470] suspend/resume failure" [High,Fix released]
<PaulePanter> seb128: I asked the user to clarify in https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1661741.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1661741 in Dell Sputnik "[Dell Inc. Latitude E5470] suspend/resume failure" [High,Fix released]
<PaulePanter> seb128: Maybe my issue is different after all.
<Laney> greetings
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<duflu> ðLaney
<Laney> jibel: I get the perl part, but the emacs part is where you need to be saved
 * Laney sends help
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson duflu 
<oSoMoN> hey Laney 
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<seb128> PaulePanter, right, it's a bit unclear if there is still an issue and what it is, I think it would help to have a clean report after testing on focal with updated bios if that's stil an issue there
<seb128> Laney, you are gnome-session co-maintainer now right? could you try to review https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/-/merge_requests/46 ? it's a change the oem team cares about
<didrocks> hey Laney 
<Laney> hi oSoMoN seb128 didrocks 
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thx
<jibel> Trevinho, is there a way to switch between all the windows of all the workspaces with alt tab? I've org.gnome.shell.app-switcher current-workspace-only set to false but it works only for super tab 
<jibel> I'm on g-s 3.36.3-1ubuntu2
<didrocks> I was wrong, itâs another schema, same key name but another schema
<jibel> nvm the key is window-switcher
<didrocks> I think we should have both having the same value by default, no?
<didrocks> either both to true (window switch and application switcher) or both to false
<didrocks> (Note that having different defaults is upstream, we donât override any of them)
<popey> didrocks finally got some time to try and fix my laptop, booted into 20.04 live, and tried the first command which is "sudo zpool import rpool -R /mnt" which fails saying it's used by another system and I need to use -f, is that okay?
<didrocks> popey: yes, the issue is that itâs not been properly umounted (due to the error on boot)
<didrocks> so -f is fine
<popey> ok
<didrocks> (itâs to avoid 2 different systems mounting the same disk while running)
<popey> these mount commands aren't right. I end up with /boot/boot and /boot/efi and /boot/grub in the chroot, which doesn't look right
<didrocks> popey: hum, as I wrote them from memory. I probably did miss something :)  sorry is was zpool import bpool -R /mnt (not /mnt/boot)
<didrocks> it*
<didrocks> this is why we need to take some time to put that in ZSys wiki until the grub issue is fixed (if ever fixed)
<popey> I think my best course is to backup and nuke this
<didrocks> popey: at least, if you wait for a couple of weeks, you can setup encryption with groovy :)
<popey> Hah! I'm not falling for this again! :D
<popey> I remember upgrading away from an LTS sat next to you at a sprint some years ago.
<popey> never again :D
<didrocks> but we got it working at the end! Remember this :)
<didrocks> and you really wanted to try the new Yaru :p
<popey> Fair
<didrocks> Iâll try to get to a screw up system (full disk) next week and write that recovery wiki page
<popey> sweet
 * popey finds a 2TB disk to backup onto
<jibel> Laney, we're trying to decrypt a user volume on login using systemd. With gdm, ssh or login from a tty the user session is activated properly including the mount home dir. But it doesn't with sudo or su. With these tools the session is not visible in loginctl. Do you know why there is a difference between gdm/ssh and sudo/su/login/..., and if it's on purpose?
<didrocks> Note that we checked that all pam configuration are calling pam_systemd.so
<didrocks> (even those not opening this logind session)
<jibel> Laney, for example with ssh I see in the journal "Started Session 53 of user u."
<jibel> but nothing with su
<ddstreet> jibel you're using 'su -' to create a login session?
<ddstreet> or 'su -l'
<jibel> su -
<jibel> but there is not difference with -l, logind is not called at all
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi guys
<didrocks> hey hellsworth 
<hellsworth> o/ didrocks 
<Laney> jibel: didrocks: not sure, I know logind isn't started via su/sudo but not exactly how
<Laney> did you look at the different things in /etc/pam.d/?
<jibel> yes, we added a pam_exec after each line of each pam config file to trace the calls. And we just know that pam_systemd doesn't ask logind to create a session with su or sudo but cannot figure out why.
<jibel> ah actually "pam_systemd(su-l:session): Not creating session: Already running in a session or user slice"
<Laney> makes sense
<Laney> use machinectl shell or something
<didrocks> ok, we can workaround all that by an elegant solution based on .automount units with IdleTimeout
<Laney> did you look into what homed is doing with decrypting on login? feels like a similar problem
<jibel> not yet
<didrocks> Laney: the issue is that no systemd integration for helping ZFS is wanted upstream
<didrocks> Lennart was clear on a bug report about that
<didrocks> so, weâll see
<Laney> right, I think it's a homed pam module rather
<Laney> ok, see you monday!
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end Laney 
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, fontforge/s390x is now built in groovy-proposed, so IÂ retried https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.4.4-0ubuntu1/+build/19401810
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: thank you so so much!
#ubuntu-desktop 2020-06-12
<callmepk> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN 
<oSoMoN> hey duflu 
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128 
<seb128> hey duflu, happy friday! how are you? getting ready for the weekend? :)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> seb128, Happy Friday. Yeah I will enjoy the rest. How are you?
<duflu> Hi didrocks 
<didrocks> hey duflu 
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> duflu, I'm fine, a bit tired but it's friday so it's alright, should be alright after some coffee
<didrocks> salut seb128, bon vendredi
<seb128> didrocks, merci, Ã  toi Ã©galement !
<didrocks> 'ci
<pieq> Hello everyone!
<pieq> I noticed a refugar "+1 maintenance report" on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, but I'm not sure what it's all about exactly. Is there a Wiki page or something to explain it?
<seb128> pieq, hey, yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlusOneMaintenanceTeam
<seb128> pieq, the wiki page is old but that initiative got some staffing again recently
<seb128> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlusOneMaintenanceTeam/Status also
<pieq> merci seb128 !
<seb128> de rien :)
<ricotz> good morning desktopers!
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hey, am I correct that you filed a bug regarding a backport of python 3.6 to xenial?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1644845
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1644845 in General "Unable to build with python 2.7/3.5 on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS" [S3,Resolved: wontfix]
<seb128> hey ricotz, how are you? happy friday!
<ricotz> seb128, hi, thanks, I am fine, looking forward to the weekend
<ricotz> how are you?
<duflu> Hi also pieq and ricotz 
<marcustomlinson> hey duflu oSoMoN seb128 didrocks pieq ricotz
<duflu> 'lo marcustomlinson 
<oSoMoN> good morning seb128, didrocks, pieq, ricotz, marcustomlinson 
<oSoMoN> ricotz, I didn't file that bug, but I discussed the problem with other ubuntu devs, and the consensus was not to try backporting, instead we should distro-patch firefox to build with python 3.5
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson, oSoMoN 
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ack
<seb128> ricotz, a bit tired but alright, I'm also looking forward some extra rest in the weekend :)
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<KGB-0> mutter ubuntu/master Daniel van Vugt * [open] merge request !65: Fix blurry wallpaper (upstream mutter!1003) (LP: #1862308) * https://deb.li/3tEpd
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1862308 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Desktop wallpaper is slightly blurry" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1862308
<duflu> Feel free to ignore that for a while because I'm starting my weekend
<duflu> o/
<seb128> kenvandine, do we have any process to flag snapd issues we might consider important/that need debugging?
<seb128> kenvandine, bug #1858636 sounds like one of those, comment #34 sounds interesting
<ubot5> bug 1858636 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "snapd generates incomplete fontconfig caches, result in emoji rendering issue in chromium" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1858636
<seb128> or #29 rather
 * kenvandine looks
<seb128> the cache generated by snapd lacks NotoColorEmoji.ttf comapred to the one done by deb triggers
<seb128> kenvandine, note that duflu wrote in there that it breaks chrome (deb) for him, so it's not a problem with use of snaps but rather snapd which doesn't generate a cache properly matching which is available
<seb128> fontconfig keeps being a fun topic :/
<kenvandine> seb128: indeed... no fun at all
<kenvandine> chromium isn't using the platform snap and doesn't include NotoColorEmoji.ttf in the snap
<seb128> kenvandine, it's not about chromium, read what I just wrote on the channel
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i did
<seb128> snapd overwrite the /var/cache/fontconfig/ cache right?
<kenvandine> i didn't think that was the case
<kenvandine> but it must be
<seb128> seems like it does it in a way which is buggy and as a result even debs are buggy
<seb128> if it doesn't then the comments don't make sense
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> it is very interesting
<kenvandine> my most recently modified cache files end in cache-6
<seb128> is there a way to force the snapd cache refresh to see what it gives?
<kenvandine> the older ones are cache-7
<kenvandine> that would be a question for mvo
<kenvandine> seb128: i think  you are right...
<seb128> kenvandine, I tagged it rls-ff-incoming, I don't think anyone owning snapd follows that process though, what's the right way to raise the issue to the snap team?
<seb128> oSoMoN, ^ fyi
<seb128> kenvandine, I confirmed by doing 
<seb128> $ rm /var/cache/fontconfig
<seb128> $ snap refresh --edge core
<seb128> $ fc-cat /var/cache/fontconfig/* | grep NotoColorE
<seb128> -> not mention
<seb128> $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig
<seb128> $ fc-cat /var/cache/fontconfig/* | grep NotoColorE
<seb128> -> things listed
<kenvandine> please add that to the bug report
<kenvandine> and i'll make sure they see it
<oSoMoN> seb128, ack, thanks for raising it
<seb128> kenvandine, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1858636/comments/37
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1858636 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "snapd generates incomplete fontconfig caches, result in emoji rendering issue in chromium" [Medium,Confirmed]
<oSoMoN> it's a funny and tricky bug, and mgedmin did a very good job of investigating it in depth
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> nice that we made a step forward
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> this is pretty bad
<seb128> it's annoying and had regular comments
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, seen that?Â  https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/firefox-snap-77-cannot-download-anything/18167
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: thank, i hadn't seen that
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i don't think they really meant download, it was save
<kenvandine> downloads shouldn't touch the portals
<kenvandine> but it does want portals for the file chooser
<oSoMoN> yes
<oSoMoN> well by default firefox always prompts the user where to save a downloaded file
<oSoMoN> so the file chooser is invoked, unless the user has ticked a checkbox to always perform the same action
<kenvandine> oh it does?
<kenvandine> hmm
<kenvandine> if he's really running bionic he should have had the portal packages too
<kenvandine> which is weird
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth 
<hellsworth> hi there
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: i've confirmed downloads work fine on stock 18.04
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: however... save as does not
<kenvandine> i've reproduced the same denial
<kenvandine> it's being denied by snapd
<oSoMoN> so the problem is valid, although incorrectly worded
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, interestingly i reproduced it on stock 18.04.4, then on fully updated 18.04.4 (including latest core from stable) which has snapd 2.45 
<kenvandine> i installed snapd 2.45.1 and it worked
 * kenvandine comments on forum
<oSoMoN> have a good week-end everyone
