#edubuntu 2005-08-22
<cyphase> hey everyone
<cyphase> hey everyone
<wen> HI ,everybody!
<swazo> um. so how many schools/work environments have adapted this?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i got my laptop customs didn't charge any duty but i had to pay 10% VAT which is still a big amount in my currency
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sheesh!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: is it new or second hand?
<jsgotangco> its new
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cos surely you don't pay VAT on something that's already paid for?
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i know
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you may be able to claim it back.... contact cvd
<jsgotangco> but its customs *shrug*
<jsgotangco> JaneW, yeah, she gave me a form
<JaneW> jsgotangco: are you part of the laptop testing team? or are you just special? ;)
<jsgotangco> im on the test team but i don't mind being special soon :)
* jsgotangco pigs out on windows games
<jsgotangco> im downloading a daily build of the edubuntu iso, lets see if this goes well later
<jsgotangco> my first one just didnt work at all
* JaneW crosses fingers
<jsgotangco> hmm partitioning is borked?
<jsgotangco> it failed miserably *groan*
<jsgotangco> im sure i had a good burn
<ogra_> stage1 (before reboot) of the installer should be fine
<jsgotangco> let me try it again
<ogra_> at which speed did you burn it ? 
<jsgotangco> 22x
<jsgotangco> i always burn on this laptop without any problems
<ogra_> heh, never use more then 8x for bootables
<jsgotangco> i'll try to burn it again much slower
<ogra_> the data is packed very tight...
<JaneW> interesting
<ogra_> yes... mostly people dont belive you if you tell them :) until they see it working with a slower burn from the same iso
<jsgotangco> did you trigger a new build now?
<ogra_> no use for that... i'm waiting for a colony before i want to make sure our base works
<jsgotangco> ok i'm burning a new one from my recent download
<ogra_> colony 3 didnt happen as wanted yesterday... we had a bad Xorg bug (again *sigh)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra_> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13532
<ogra_> but at 3am we had solved it... i dont know why mdz hasnt started a new one...
<ogra_> (UTC 1am)
<jsgotangco> hmm 0 size
<ogra_> yep...
<ogra_> the automatic keyboard selection failed....
<ogra_> dpkg-reconfigure works fine though
<jsgotangco> poor daniels X really is pissing him for months
<JaneW> ogra_: what happened with Colony 3 yesterday? I am afraid to ask
<jsgotangco> Xorg
<JaneW> sorry just read above
<JaneW> dang
<ogra_> yep :(
<JaneW> spoke to jbailey yesterday about a volume bug
<JaneW> but I think he said it wasn't too hard to fix
<jsgotangco> buggy badger
<JaneW> jsgotangco: lol
<ogra_> such bugs are trivial (at least for a colony) but bugs that break the install are blockers
<JaneW> buggery?
<ogra_> Xorg is a heavyweight.... i'm really looking forward to breezy+1 this development cycle was no fun at all compared to hoary
<jsgotangco> indeed
<JaneW> ogra_: I am kind of glad to hear that - I thought it was just me who thought the fun had evaporated
<JaneW> this one is a slog!
<JaneW> imagine 6.04 - 5 year stable!
<JaneW> loads of pressure
<jsgotangco> pitti will be pleased
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra_> JaneW, but a lot more time for testing and development if you have a base to build on.... having no Xorg and constantly loosing librarys you need wont happen for 6.04
<JaneW> true
<JaneW> (I hope)
<ogra_> but it was necessary... we have the most beautiful X in the world now... and are ahead of all the others :)
<jsgotangco> the X borkage during hoary devel was fun.. X in breezy is no fun at all
<jsgotangco> now people end up with awful hacks
<ogra_> yep
* JaneW still has not seen evidence of any of this....
* JaneW should try d/ling and installing...
<ogra_> yes, try it...
<ogra_> keep the iso around, then you can only rsync the binary changes to it... takes only some minutes, instead of downloading a new iso every time
<JaneW> friday - my 3G ADSL cap won;t be happy ;)
<jsgotangco> you still have bandwidth caps over there?
<JaneW> yes
<jsgotangco> wow
<JaneW> for INTL traffic anyway
<jsgotangco> hmm now on stage 2
<JaneW> our telco is screwed
<JaneW> we still pay a fortune on local calls
<ogra_> most of them are :)
* JaneW 's husband LOL at a telkom call centre staff memeber the other day when he said , ' Thank-you for chosing Telkom'
<JaneW> they have a monopoly here
<jsgotangco> lol
<JaneW> he said, ' er it;s not like I had a choice!'
<ogra_> hehe
<jsgotangco> im not surprised if the call centre staff was from here or from india
<JaneW> there's a whole hate sight against them http://www.hellkom.co.za/
<JaneW> jsgotangco: actually there was some shady deal with a malaysian telly co
<jsgotangco> ouch malaysian telco - monopoly as well
<jsgotangco> ogra_, does 0817 build install nicely on you? i got frozen at 85% stage 2
<ogra_> gah, tat should have been solved 2 days ago....
<ogra_> is it stuck at a language pack ? 
<jsgotangco> it must be...im not sure i went downstairs for a bite
<jsgotangco> i dont know what is being installed
<ogra_> could you look at console 4 ?
<jsgotangco> everything is frozen
<ogra_> if there is a yes/no question about authentication, you are hit by #13496
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> i'm just burning tha 0817, lest see
<jsgotangco> ok i'm just going to pick up my wife at work i'll check again
<jsgotangco> later
<ogra_> ciao
<ogra_> JaneW, oh, we are so near.... only bug 13532 is keeping the CD to be 100% installable... and that is easy to work around after the install.... tomorrows CD will be "edubuntu colony 1" ;)
<ogra_> s/to be/from being/
<ogra_> morning mpt 
<mpt> hi ogra_
<mpt> I think I owe you an apology
<ogra_> both ogra_s are real btw ;)
<ogra_> huh ? what for ? 
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> huh ? what for ? 
* mpt cheers at the crashing gaim
<mpt> For being too busy to design anything for you before feature freeze
<ogra_> mpt, i was to busy too.... edubuntu has drawn all my time... i'll be happy if even gnome-power makes it into breezy.... dont worry
<ogra_> ther is still breezy+1 :) i guess hwdb will stay as is for breezy... probably some bugfixes, but nothing big
<JaneW> ogra_: YAY
<JaneW> ogra__: what was jeff on about, the meeting is listed on the wiki, and on this # heading, and I ave no put it in #u-m too...
<ogra_ltsp> YAY
<JaneW> who is in charge of teacher's pet?
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, we talked about it last week.... remember ? we likely wont have it in breezy time
<ogra_ltsp> but in the end that'd be me...
<JaneW> ogra_ltsp: yes I remember - but is that your own tool? I have an e-mail enquiry
<JaneW> right I see
<ogra_ltsp> http://www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<JaneW> I didn;t realise that what you were working on WAS teacher;s pet
<JaneW> :)
<JaneW> I'll fwd to you
<ogra_ltsp> i dont have the time to work further on it... and the tools we reviewed wera all not usable... ita also difficult to make one of the existing tools work with our ltsp implementation, since its revolutionary new
<ogra_ltsp> JaneW, i very much would have liked to take the guadalinex tool... but thats writte in gambas which we'll never have in main....
<JaneW> :/
<JaneW> ogra: such is life...
<ogra_ltsp> so thats a no go... teacher tool is not working with our ltsp implementation... and my tool only works half...
<JaneW> http://zontik.de/uploads/1116202837_cd.jpg <- a bit rude but funny
<ogra_ltsp> my tool would require two or three days of extra work... i'm considering to finish it after the preview is out, then the amount of work is likely to drop... i couls offer it as an addon on people.ubuntu.com
<ogra_ltsp> lol...
<ogra_ltsp> yes, the norwegians have a funny sort of humor
<Petaris> ogra: my sudo seems broken
<Petaris> I get a sudo: unable to lookup Ayumi by gethostbyname()
<ogra> doesnt happen here...
<ogra> is the user in the admin group ? 
<Petaris> admin or wheel?
<Petaris> I added the user to sudoers
<Petaris> I'll check wheell though
<Petaris> I'll check wheel too  ;)
<ogra> dont edit sudoers
<ogra> and there is no wheel group on debian systems
<ogra> (or at least there shouldnt be one)
<ogra> the admin group is the right place
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> its enabled for sudo by default
<Petaris> ok
<ogra> thats what the different profiles in the user-admin tool are for ;)
<Petaris> I don't have that tool
<ogra> didnt you install it yesterday after my suggestion ? 
<Petaris> I didn't know you had?
<Petaris> oh, was that the one that wanted to install gnome too?
<ogra> gnome-system-tools
<ogra> it wont install gnome, only the gnome libs
<ogra> but its something you should have....
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> I figured out the problem though
<Petaris> It wasn't that I wasn't a memeber of the admin group
<ogra> if you really have to edit sudoers once (which should never be the case) use visudo and nothig else...
<Petaris> I had just forgotten to setup /etc/hosts  lol
<Petaris> why?
<ogra> because it checks the syntax and cares for stuff... 
<Petaris> what syntax?
<Petaris> you just add the username
<JaneW> bye all back later for meetings etc
<Petaris> bye JaneW
<ogra> Petaris, just dont do it... the big warning at the top of the file is there for a reason
<Petaris> there is no warning, its an empty file
<Petaris> or at least it was on my install
<ogra> then your install is broken
<ogra> # sudoers file.
<ogra> #
<ogra> # This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root.
<ogra> #
<ogra> # See the man page for details on how to write a sudoers file.
<ogra> #
<ogra> thats what should be written there
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> thats odd
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i wonder what else is broken for you then
<Petaris> unless its something that gets setup after the language pack
<Petaris> which haulted
<Petaris> I've done all setup manually after that
<Petaris> coming from gentoo, most of that setup is fairly simple :)
<ogra> the end target is that you dont have to configure it at all... 
<ogra> which works quite well here for todays daily, except on esmall glitch with X autodetection
<Petaris> ahh, so it is an install for non-guru users
<ogra> but thats already solved and will be ready tomorrow
<ogra> its a ubuntu install.... 
<ogra> which is aimed at gurus as weel as to non gurus
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> Well I'm still working on configuring icewm to my specs
<ogra> the default will work for everyone... gurus will tweak it :)
<Petaris> I am using idesk for icons on the desktop
<ogra> but having a installation ready within 1h and without much interaction out of the box is the main target we have
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> I personally can't stand icons but users like them :/
* Petaris looks at his enlightenment desktop, not an icon in site
<ogra> <--- gnome guy
<Petaris> I used to like kde
<Petaris> but it was too bloated and I always had issues with kserver
<ogra> i havent touched KDE since 1.4
<Petaris> last I used was 3.2
<Petaris> I like enlightenment musch better
<ogra> i dont like it
<Petaris> I always had problems with sound in kde too, as I used xmms directly with the alsa driver and not through the ksound deamon
<ogra> i wonder why everybody still uses such old cruft like xmms there are so many newer and better integrated audio players out there...
<ogra> i like rhythmbox and muine...
<Petaris> xmms is far nicer than most of the newer ones
<ogra> hmm, arguable...
<Petaris> its simple, themeable, uses less resources, and stable
<ogra> and doesnt integrate anywhere...
<ogra> i like it if my player goes out of the way and puts itself into the systemtray to not disturb me
<Petaris> lots of ways to do that with xmms
<Petaris> look at all the aplets for gnome/kde etc for controlling xmms
<Petaris> not to mention you can use it in the console
<Petaris> remote control it from anywhere
<ogra> sure, after ages of configuring... i dont like to configure my desktop at all... and rather spend my time in development 
<Petaris> it takes only a few minutes
<ogra> thats the reason why i work on ubuntu and not on gentoo ;)
<Petaris> but you must understand I am very minimal on the desktop
<ogra> sure... but i dont even like to think about it... i want to click on my ogg file and it should just play for me
<Petaris> real graphicy looking things make me gag
<Petaris> mine does
<ogra> i think ubuntus desktop is very pretty and slim...
<Petaris> and for everything else there is mplayer
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> or totem-xine ;)
<Petaris> ubuntu slim?
<Petaris> haha
<ogra> oh, the voltage doubles
<Petaris> ogra: have you tried vlo?
<ogra> nope... 
<Petaris> er, vlc
<Petaris> sory
<ogra> whats vlo ?
<Petaris> that ones preety good to
<ogra> yes... i dont like the widget set.....
<Petaris> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
<ogra> for streaming i prefer fulendo
<ogra> fluendo even
<Petaris> never heard of it
<Petaris> I use xmms for streaming
<Petaris> or mplayer
<Petaris> console mplayer of course as the gui for it is ugly
<ogra> fluendo is a streaming server working tightly with totem
<Petaris> I can't stand totem
<ogra> its the best player out there imho
<Petaris> tried to get along with it but it kept crashing
<ogra> especially the mozilla plugin is neat
<Petaris> mplayer plugin for mozilla works well too
<Petaris> as does realplayer plugin
* Petaris wishes helix would play real content
<ogra> neither for me on amd64
<Petaris> grr
<ogra> totem works fine though
<Petaris> ogra: are you running the x86_64 branch?
<ogra> sure
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> I tried that early on but it was very buggy
<ogra> only if i test ltsp it runs in i386 mode
<ogra> its as stable as every other ubuntu
<Petaris> right, emulation mode
<Petaris> it wasn't back when I tried it
<Petaris> but it was before release
<ogra> the only missing bit for me is flash... but i'm not really after it
<Petaris> really?
<Petaris> flash I didn't have any problemsw with
<Petaris> problems even
<ogra> there is no 64bit version of flash
<ogra> so it doesnt run on amd64
<Petaris> did you try compiling openflash?
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> its buggy as hell...
<Petaris> or gplflash or whatever
<ogra> yup, tried them all
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I had not trouble with it
<Petaris> worked great
<Petaris> but I blew that system away so I couldn't tell you how I did it
<ogra> for things newer then flash4 ?
<Petaris> oh wait, I know
<Petaris> I installed a 32-bit version of ff
<Petaris> using the 32-bit emulation
<Petaris> thats how I did it
<ogra> sure that works... but i dont want to run 32bit...
<Petaris> you noticed a small slowdown but not too bad
<ogra> thats why i have a 64bit machine
<Petaris> I'm not going back to x86_64 until the apps I need can be compiled for it
<ogra> which apps ? 
<Petaris> some multimedia apps I needed
<Petaris> and a few plugins for ff
<Petaris> and the was something else that wasn't working but I can't remember what it was
<Petaris> actually, I'm quite surprised how slowly some projects are branching to x86_64
<Petaris> ogra: Where is that user-admin-tool?
<Petaris> I can't find it in apt
<ogra> gnome-system-tools
<Petaris> oh, thats the package name
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> hrmm
<Petaris> users-admin just sits there for me
<ogra> ran it with sudo ? 
<ogra> it needs admin rights
<Petaris> It came up with the enter root password dialog
<Petaris> ahh, sudo worked
<ogra> enter root password ? rather enter *your* password... its sudo based
<ogra> it should say that in the dialog...
<wen> HI ,everybody!
<Petaris> Hello wem
<Petaris> er, wen
<Petaris> I can't type today
<Petaris> ogra: I added another user but the client won't let them login, it just restarts ldm
<Petaris> what group do they need to be added to?
<Petaris> there is no ltsp group
<ogra> it should work out of the box (it does here)
<ogra> can you ssh user@localhost with this user ? 
<ogra> (on the server_)
<wen> i am wondering here everybody is teacher?
<ogra> heh, nope
<Petaris> by user at localhost you mean that users name right?
<ogra> yep
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> just a min
<ogra> can the user ssh to the server....
<Petaris> right
<wen> how will skolelinux be after edubuntu realesed?
<Petaris> ogra: no I can't
<ogra> aha
<Petaris> I'm going to try changing the password
<ogra> wen, that'd be a question pere can answer
<ogra> i dont know the release plans for skole
<Petaris> that didn't work
<ogra> edubuntu will release around Oct 10th (+/- 5days)
<Petaris> ogra: any ideas?
<Petaris> my one user can login
<ogra> not really... i dont know what eles isnt working on your tweaked system...
<ogra> it works fine here in a standard edubuntu setup...
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I will try a few things
<ogra> its very likely that your system didnt get configured through the installaer breakage.... try running base-config again
<ogra> (with sudo)
<wen> edubuntu will focus on server or desktop? 
<ogra> it will be a ltsp standalone setup for one classroom.... (which contains server *and* desktop)
<Petaris> ogra: its working now
<ogra> additionally you'll have an option to not install the server part, so you have a standalone workstation
<Petaris> I feel stupid though
<ogra> what was it ? 
<Petaris> I didn't hit ok after making the user
<ogra> heh
<Petaris> I thought it had already made it when it added it to the list
<pere> Petaris: skolelinux will still be well ahead of edubuntu when the first release of edubuntu is released.  The out of the box service configuration is state of the art, and it will take some time before edubuntu is close to catching up. :)
<ogra> ha ha ha 
<pere> Petaris: we are working on a sarge-based release, but I do not know how far of it will be in october.
<ogra> pere, we currently only have 3 things you have to adjust.... i'm not even sure if i'll make a edubuntu-config package, since its not necessary
<pere> Petaris: we are also cooperating with edubuntu, and try to help this project understand and find solutions to the problems we have discovered and solved, as well as stealing like ravens all the good solutions created by edubuntu. :)
<ogra> pere, keep in mind i only have to care for a single machine here
<ogra> :)
<pere> ogra: yes, edubuntu is picking the low-hanging fruits for the first release.  You will be have to work harder to pick at the next level. :)
<ogra> wen, if you want to set up a whole school skole is definately the way to go... for a single classrom like k12ltsp offers it edubuntu will be worth atry
<ogra> pere, yes, i'm really looking forward to that one... i guess you can teach me a lot there ;)
<pere> ogra: yes.  for small installations, or as "plugins" in a skolelinux network, I expect edubuntu to work just fine.
<pere> in kongsvinger, they installed skolelinux servers and fedore clients.
<ogra> i think we'll have a good CD tomorrow for a first impression....
<ogra> eek... why didnt they take debian or ubuntu, i imagine the maintenance will be easier...
<pere> the admin was a fedora man, "certified redhat engineer", and wanted to stay on familiar turf, while at the same time recognizing a good server config when he saw one. :)
<ogra> pere, do you guys use wwwconfig-common in your packages ? it got rejected in ubuntu, so i'll have to replace it in moodle...
<pere> no, we do not use wwwconfig-common as far as I know.
<ogra> hmm... ok
<ogra> so letting the change on moodle flow back to debian would make sense for both of us...
<ogra> nice :)
<pere> yeah.  though I am not up to date with moodle, so I do not know what kind of configuration is needed.
<ogra> it uses wwwconfig-common only to add the DB user and create the DB
<pere> right.  isn't there some SQL database config tool around for mysql and postgresql?
<ogra> isnt that what wwwconfig-common is aimed for ? 
<ogra> the idea of this tool is good, just the implementation is crappy
<pere> I believe I saw some database-common or -config, or something like that.  do not remember the details.
* pere haven't paid attention to that stuff for a long time
<Petaris> pere: does skolelinux have an ltsp install?
<pere> Petaris: working on it as we speak.  Initial test version available and uploaded yesterday.  join #ltsp if you want to test. :)
<ogra> pere, bsed on mdz's ?
<ogra> based even
<Petaris> pere: and does your ltsp branch have a lite-desktop choice
<pere> Petaris: what is that?
<ogra> pere, icewm or xfce4
<pere> Petaris: did you check out lessdisks, btw?  it is similar to ltsp, but more features.
<Petaris> pere: I don't want to suck up resources using gnome or kde
<Petaris> no
<Petaris> haven't heard of it
<pere> ah, desktop choice is unrelated to ltsp.  that is on the thin client server.  the thin client just connect to the server and use whatever is on the server.
* Petaris wonders where to put his modifications to the default icewm template
<Petaris> and how to lock it down
<ogra> isnt there a ~/.icewm ? 
<Petaris> yep
<ogra> put it there ;)
<Petaris> but I wan't to edit the default template
<Petaris> so when a user first logs on they get my modifications
<ogra> i guess the default template is in 7etc/skel/.icewm
<Petaris> I'll look there
<ogra> s/7/\/
<Petaris> don't you mean s/7///?
<Petaris> ;p
<ogra> nope
<Petaris> but then you would have \etc/skel/.icewm
<Petaris> and not /etc/skel/.icewm
<ogra> that'd be s/7/\\
<ogra> tyr it :)
<ogra> try even
<Petaris> How can I have folders and links and such automatically created on first login
<Petaris> where would I put that info
<Petaris> like the link to the shared storage space
<Petaris> and a folder for trash
<Petaris> ogra: could you make it so that enter submits the login on your next revision of ldm?
<ogra> Petaris, yp, thats planned, and that you dont have the ability to move your mouse out of the window
<Petaris> move the mouse out of the window?
<Petaris> or do you mean off screen?
<ogra> yep, a mousetrap :)
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> no over the black part
<Petaris> is there anyway to change the background color?
<ogra> not yet... and i cant promise we'll have it in v1.0
<ogra> i'm planning a config file to be ableto change the theme though
<Petaris> so I can't hack a config file then
<Petaris> bugger
<ogra> not yet... ldm is some weeks old ...
<Petaris> ogra: why didn't you just use xdm or something as a base?
<Petaris> just curious
<ogra> aks mdz, its his tool... i just hacked up the design...
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> i know he put a Suggests: in the package for sdm
<ogra> but i think thats rather for the X export version we dont use in edubuntu
<Petaris> ahh
<ogra> the way its now is more secure... encryption all over the place... doing that with a X based display manager would require some very intrusive changes 
<Petaris> does anyone here know how to have things automagically created in the users home directory
<ogra> write a script and add it to your .xsession ? 
<ogra> i would use gnomes session heandling... :)
<ogra> but i doubt that helps you for icewm
<Petaris> I'll email Paul and see if he has any ideas
<Petaris> I know he has stuff like that in k12ltsp
<Petaris> is there a list of the educational programs that will be autoinstalled?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> on the wiki
<Petaris> ok
* Petaris looks
<ogra> http://edubuntu.org/ApplicationSelection
<ogra> a bunch of this didnt make it...
<Petaris> kstarts is awesome
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<Petaris> er, kstars
<ogra> this is the actual list used to produce the CD
<ogra> search for "EduBuntu"
<Petaris> waht about tux4kids apps
<ogra> tuxtype/math/paint are in
<Petaris> cool
<Petaris> what about their desktop publishing app?  Or is that still devel?
<ogra> we have scribus
<ogra> only one app for one task...
<Petaris> tuxprint would be better for the elementary though
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> actually I like OOo draw
<ogra> thats in anyway... 
<ogra> ooo2 is the default in ubuntu... we use it in edubuntu too
<Petaris> tuxpaint is still too early in devel yet it seems
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> tuxpaint is some years old
<ogra> but anway, the list is final... 
<Petaris> er, I meant tux print
<Petaris> not paint
<Petaris> tuxpaint is solid
<ogra> yup
<Petaris> ogra: this is really starting to shape up on my side
<Petaris> I might just make my deadline
<ogra> yeah
<Petaris> I will try to keep track of everything I did so you can use that info with the lite-desktop branch
<Petaris> who is in charge of that branch anyway?
<Petaris> you said before, but I have forgoted
<Petaris> er, forgoten
<ogra> he's called vedran... you'll find him in #ubuntu-devel sometimes
<Petaris> ogra: ok
<mhz> are we ready for this?
#edubuntu 2005-08-23
<edwin> someone speak spanish?
<mhz> I do
<mhz> yo
<mhz> :)
* mhz BBL
<edwin> heh
<edwin> ola
<edwin> lei.. un poco de edubuntu en la web
<edwin> quieria averiguar mas
<jelkner> ogra: is the edubuntu is ready for use?
<edwin> heh.. se fue mhz
<jelkner> does anyone know if the edubuntu cd is ready for use/testing?
<mhz_vuelvo_luego> edwin: aun estoy en la preparacion de la cena... si me esperas un poco, con agrado te explico lo que necesites :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping?
<jsgotangco> hi
<mhz> hi there
<mhz> got 3 minutes?
<jsgotangco> sure
<mhz> ok
<mhz> I shoot
<jsgotangco> what's up
<mhz> Moin/ last time I understood the following:
<mhz> Doc team is using SVN because you all need versioning, and DocBook because of its capabilities, right?
<jsgotangco> DocBook has been used throughout any technical documentation AFAIK
<mhz> However, despite SVN is very good and mature, it is always to work off line and then submit
<jsgotangco> and very much centralized
<mhz> That forces doc team gung to carry the HD with them all the time, right?
<mhz> (if we talk about fans, of course)
<jsgotangco> contributors have their machines yes
<mhz> Also, SVN forces people to IDLE or others to submit their advances before we know the real time status of their contributions, right?
<mhz> IDLE for others.
<jsgotangco> im not following you
<mhz> hehe
<jsgotangco> SVN is being used because everyone in the team is used to it
<mhz> SVN is good BUT forces to be people-dependant
<jsgotangco> but its not just Edubuntu
<jsgotangco> its the whole Ubuntu documentation
<mhz> yes, I know
<jsgotangco> we've been talking about moving it to Baz in the near future post breezy
<mhz> Baz is gonna kick some butts
<mhz> Baz is real cool
<jsgotangco> because SVN forces us to be dependent on 1 person controlling ACLs
<mhz> yes, exactly
<mhz> Now we talk
<jsgotangco> me and mpt have been doing some Ubuntu Help on Baz but it won't come out for breezy probably
<mhz> I am a Translator, ans as such, I always wanted a tool that could let me work both off and on line
<mhz> but always keep everything on line, so I can be anywhere with any web browser and work
<mhz> MoinMoin lets me do that
<mhz> plus its control versioning is very good
<mhz> and deals beautifully with ACL's
<jsgotangco> if you're talking about a web/browser interface to do documentation, we've discussed that a long long time ago in the docteam but it fizzled out and resulted in a mini-flame war within the community
<mhz> LOL
<jsgotangco> it needs to be planned ahead
<jsgotangco> even the Gnome people have it as a bounty
<jsgotangco> i mean Google
<jsgotangco> because the problem is social, not technical
<mhz> that's why I will do my translations in MoinMoin
<mhz> and show a working alternative
<mhz> not just the idea
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> but i don't think its workable in our time frame
<jsgotangco> Sept. 8 is documentation freeze
<mhz> my only problem is I am XML ignorant
<jsgotangco> we can do so in Breezy +1
<jsgotangco> mhz, we can just parse basic docbook tags
<jsgotangco> so we have a proof of concept
<mhz> so wahteever I do, I know Moin has a Moin 2 XML something, but I have no idea what to do with that output
<jsgotangco> probably some Moin script that will transform moin tags to docbook equivalent
<mhz> ok, so you say that I just take care of moining the doc and you get it into XML ?
<jsgotangco> i know very little of Moin scripting
<mhz> np
<jsgotangco> i know the ACLs and stuff
<mhz> Moin is 100% python
<jsgotangco> because a Moin solution will be very welcome in Ubuntu
<mhz> and we can always get help from the Moin gang
<mhz> (very cool and clever guys)
<jsgotangco> a solution like that will benefit not only Edubuntu but the whole documentation project
<mhz> Well, actually, I mentioned and you can see it, Moin .po files are being kept 100% wikied
<jsgotangco> if you can work something out, we'll see and get the docteam to try it out
<jsgotangco> the end result should still be in source docbook as much as possible
<mhz> http://moinmaster.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinI18n/es
<jsgotangco> and let Moin do the front end
<mhz> exactly
<jsgotangco> but it should not hamper people from still doing docbook if they want to
<mhz> Well, I am hosting a site (always in Moin) in a few days more. this will have info about Edubuntu, Ubuntu, and 2 projects I am working on for Latin american schools
<mhz> There, I plan to host a Spanish version of Cookbook
<mhz> However, 97% of what we talked now, I am sure it is already done in Moin
<jsgotangco> ok inform us when you get it working
<mhz> Versioning has always worked perfectly
<jsgotangco> i'll just brb for lunch
<mhz> np
<mhz> I'll go to sleep
<mhz> :D
<mhz> see ya
* jsgotangco starts to rsync edubuntu colony
<highvoltage> I'm updating the tuxlab troubleshooting guide for edubuntu/skubuntu/ubuntu
<highvoltage> what would be the best way for a lab administrator to reset their password if they forget it?
<highvoltage> (the first user created with admin)
<highvoltage> afaik, they'll get a screen asking them for a password if they start into single user mode.
<jsgotangco> well in ubuntu, you just reboot the system and when you're in grub you just go into 2nd option of the kernel and you get in automatically as root
<jsgotangco> that is in the default install
<jsgotangco> then reset your password when necessary
<highvoltage> aaah
<highvoltage> ok. thanks.
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hello jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, are you feeling better? i heard you were ill
<JaneW> jsgotangco: sorry if you got up early for nothing :(
<jsgotangco> did yoga cause it? :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes still a bit fragile (feeling hungover without the pleasure of the fun beforehand)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: no that was Tuesday, if anything yoga would probably help
<jsgotangco> well if you want some good stuff i got edubuntu running now
<JaneW> jsgotangco: was a migraine, nit sure what triggers mine, I don't get them often
<jsgotangco> kinda slow though
<JaneW> jsgotangco: my mom and sister get them at least once a month
<JaneW> YAY *smile*
<JaneW> progress
<jsgotangco> wonder if its my machine
<jsgotangco> its an old 1.7Ghz celeron
<ogra> jsgotangco, i test on a PIII 900 here... doesnt feel slow normally
<jsgotangco> hm,
<ogra> still burning the nightly iso... lets see if its caused by the recent one, but i doubt it
<jsgotangco> ok i'll rsync this iso and burn again
<JaneW> OT: I just did a search to see if I am insane, and it turns out I am not the only one who has the rouble with words and nouns in particular in connection with migraines, http://www.migrainepage.com/dcforum/discussion/3452.html
<jsgotangco> you insane?
<ogra_> my GF just told me she has this too... my impression was just wrong :)
<ogra_> so dont fear youre insane :)
<jsgotangco> hmm i just installed colony 3 on a separate machine a few minutes ago and now i get an update notification for a ton of new stuff
<ogra_> jsgotangco: did you enable universe ?
<jsgotangco> no
<jsgotangco> it even has dbus
<ogra_> there were quite some uploads since the iso was built...
<jsgotangco> ahh
<ogra_> yup... see breezy changes
<jsgotangco> hmm i just noticed that yelp is now launchpad enabled
<ogra_> all gnome apps should be
<ogra_> seb128 patched libgnomeui... all apps that use it are launchpad aware
<jsgotangco> some games still aren't but we'll see
<jsgotangco> probably old stuff
<ogra_> not sure if they got rebuilt with te new libgnomeui yet
<jsgotangco> brb
<ogra_> damned
<ogra_> mdz broke edubuntu 
<ogra_> GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
<JaneW> what why?
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Wednesday 17 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. | to test our CD see: http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Wednesday 17 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. | to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<highvoltage> hello everyone.
<highvoltage> how are things?
<Petaris> Hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> ok. let's try that again :)
<highvoltage> howzit going?
<Petaris> Hi highvoltage
<JaneW> hi all
<JaneW> mvo just told me that ogra's area has no network atm...
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 22:00 UTC Thursday 18 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. | to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<JaneW> *** reminder *** Edubuntu Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 45 minutes
<JaneW> meetint NOW in #u-m
<JaneW> meeting even
#edubuntu 2005-08-24
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. MEETING NOTICE: Next meeting is scheduled for 12:00 UTC Wednedsay 24 Aug on #ubuntu-meeting. | to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<cyphase> hey everyone
<ogra> hi cyphase 
<cyphase> anyone here live in the San Francisco bay area?
<ogra> <-- gremany
<cyphase> hey ogra
<ogra> germany even
<cyphase> lol
!lilo:*! catbert is passing among you, changing ident fields from I= to i= and N= to n= for consistency
!lilo:*! affected users, about 3,500
<jsgotangco> hello
!lilo:*! Hi all. Apparently one of our servers has lost contact with the internet, we're looking at it. Apologies for the inconvenience.
!lilo:*! Another main rotation server has lost contact; apologies for the inconvenience.
<cyphase> hey everyone
<highvoltage> Is everyone angry at me? The channel is always quiet when I join :)
<ogra> hey highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi ogra :)
<jsgotangco> hi all
<jsgotangco> ogra: ping?
<ogra> jsgotangco, hi
<jsgotangco> hi, do we have a final listing already of what's going in and not, what's our best feature/software, etc.?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<ogra> thats what we have in... the commented stuff isnt moved to main yet
<ogra> 90% of the desktop seed is identical with ubuntu
<jsgotangco> hmm
* jsgotangco struggles with UK keyboard
<JaneW> jsgotangco: lol, marilize had the same problem... map it back to US - easier
<JaneW> late meetings suck... hard to do everything straight away afterwars, and feel like crap the next day :/
<jsgotangco> this doesn't even have a proper $ key
<jsgotangco> hmm we have mediawiki ok
<jsgotangco> hmm too bad for moodle and schooltool
<ogra> what? that we have mediawiki ? 
<jsgotangco> its not commented out
<jsgotangco> oh wait
<jsgotangco> we only have mysql-server
<jsgotangco> # means waiting main inclusion?
<jsgotangco> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<jsgotangco> what is edubuntu-server a meta package?
<jsgotangco> hmm no mail server
<jsgotangco> this getting hard
<highvoltage> eddie is so idealistic.
<highvoltage> ned flanders for president!
<jsgotangco> ??
<jsgotangco> simpsons?
<ogra> jsgotangco, only local transport.... we dont want the teachers to set up a mailserer for a single classroom install.... 
<jsgotangco> local transport meaning internal email?
<jsgotangco> ogra: i am having a hard time re-writing our manual in a cookbook context because tuXlab is so full featured and I have very little idea of what we currently have except those that are seeded
<jsgotangco> stuff like internet access, proxy, etc.
<highvoltage> sorry! wrong window, I meant to type that in another channel. lol.
<ogra> jsgotangco, we'll have a ltsp environment out of the box, you'll only have to give the ip range for the dhcp server, everything else will be automatically....
<ogra> jsgotangco, the thin client desktop will look like a ubuntu with the additionaly edu apps
<ogra> jsgotangco, you will reach the mediawiki setup page by accessing http://localhost/wiki/, moodle by http://localhost/moodle and schooltool in a similar way...
<jsgotangco> i thought those things are not included?
<ogra> jsgotangco, the first user you add will be the admin user, all further added users will be normal users by default, like in ubuntu...
<ogra> not *yet*, they all have main inclusion reports that are pending review
<jsgotangco> but is it safe to say they *will* be included?
<ogra> they will have to....
<Marky> hmm..
<jsgotangco> ok im installing the daily now so if i get it right, all ordinary users in the server box are automatic ltsp users
<ogra> jsgotangco, follow my instructions please... http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> but you need a thin client for that
<ogra> jsgotangco, its likely that the 20050819 iso is broken again, somehow the iso from yesterday got deleted
<jsgotangco> ok sorry i didnt notice your email on that
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra> i'm just trying to sort that....
<jsgotangco> ok so we'll have no messaging server or something similar
* jsgotangco crosses that out
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the users have evolution, they can point it to every server they like
<jsgotangco> ok so no filtering as well like squidguard
<jsgotangco> basically Ubuntu on LTSP
<ogra> yep
<ogra> all other stuff was postponed
<jsgotangco> are we still pushing for a gartoon icon set?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> its already propsed for main, just not moved
<ogra> additionally we might take sabayon for kiosk functionallity
<jsgotangco> aren't we affected by feature freeze?
<ogra> we are, why ? 
<jsgotangco> just a thought, so i guess its all about finishing those inclusion reports?
<ogra> demoting software from universe to main isnt affected by feature freeze
<jsgotangco> demote?
<jsgotangco> promote
<ogra> yes
<ogra> sorry, wrong term
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<jsgotangco> i just have too much time on my hands lately, that's all :)
<jsgotangco> night, i'll just come back later dinner first
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:JaneW] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Wed 24 Aug 12:00 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<JaneW> highvoltage: ping
<ogra> JaneW, only 5 yellow ones left :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<JaneW> :))
<ogra> only the violet ones are my nightmares:)
<JaneW> 2?
<JaneW> and the red one?
<ogra> thats what moodle causes to be violet... i have to replace the code from wwwconfig-common there
<JaneW> oic
<JaneW> comic relief -> http://www.tonight.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2843830
<JaneW> ogra: do you know if highvoltage is testing LTSP?
<JaneW> ogra: also is ThinClientIntegration testing any different in reality to edubuntu testing?
<ogra> yes, a bit, since we get more out of edubuntu testing for edubuntu indeed
<ogra> but technically its the ame
<ogra> same
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> so the LTSP part is identical?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but i'd prefer tests of edubuntu if possible :)
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> still 19h to go for my iso upload :/
<JaneW> well lets encourage ppl to test edubuntu (assuming we can again now?) and then feedback to mdz on LTSP?
<ogra> even with rsync its not faster
<ogra> as soon as i have uploaded the iso... (19h as i said... but its jumping to 4h from time to tim, so i dont know how serious i can take it)
<ogra> 53%
<highvoltage> JaneW: pong
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<JaneW> highvoltage: mdz told me last night that you are one of his offical LTSP testers... so I am jyst following up ;)
<highvolt1ge> sorry about that.
<highvolt1ge> Hi Jane.
<JaneW> ogra: contentfiltering...?
<JaneW> ogra: mdz thinks it's deferred - do you agree?
<ogra> yup, was his request
<highvoltage> strange.
<JaneW> highvoltage: mdz told me last night that you are one of his offical LTSP testers... so I am just following up ;)
<highvoltage> JaneW: afaik, yes :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: I sent him some info, and I'll send him more feedback over the weekend.
<JaneW> highvoltage: mdz needs feedback on testing, and more testers...
<JaneW> highvoltage: ok great, thanks
<highvoltage> JaneW: I just emailed elmo about the passwords for the server, he hasn't sent me any details yet.
<JaneW> mutter
<JaneW> hack them?
<JaneW> *joke*!
<highvoltage> hehe.
<JaneW> ogra: sorry but PowerManagementConfiguration you previously said 1-2 days...
<JaneW> matt said  powermanagementconfiguration isn't in desktop yet, but it _might_ be ready to go but just sitting in universe
<JaneW> is that correct?
<ogra> nope, it needs adjustment... the design is very similar to network manager and it needs similar but easier changes
<ogra> you can use it as s from universe currently to display the status of all battery driven devices, but you cant manage them
<ogra> s/as s/ as is/
<ogra> i wanted to have it ready over the weekend, but the edubuntu drawbacks were not planned and steal a lot of time now...
<ogra> (currently i need to work on nvu, but my DSL only gives me about 4k while uploading the CD, i cant even download the source for it at a usable speed)
<ogra> :(
<JaneW> :(
<highvoltage> will the edubuntu wiki be merging with the main ubuntu wiki?
<ogra> i think so....
<highvoltage> ogra: the banner on top will then say ubuntu, which is not a problem, i think. or should it say edubuntu?
<ogra> highvoltage, rather edubuntu...
<highvoltage> i wonder if you can have different banners for different pages. maybe a css hack. then again, how would the user choose that it's an edubuntu page or not?
<mpt> highvoltage: By including "CategoryUbuntu" in the page somewhere (usually at the bottom)
<mpt> er, "CategoryEdubuntu" :-)
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<cyphase> does anyone in san francisco know anything about the explosion that just happened?
<cyphase> http://www.kgoam810.com/listenlive/listenlive.pls - will have info about the explosion in SF
<cyphase> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/baycitynews/archive/2005/08/19/explosion19.DTL
<ioio24> hello
<highvoltage> hello ioio24 
<ioio24> i install ubuntu in a partition of 1GB... i install the server mode because i dont have too much space...
<ioio24> the Q is:
<ioio24> How can I now install gnome?
<ioio24> I must install first "x windows" and then gnome?
<highvoltage> sudo apt-get install gnome-desktop-environment should do it, i think
<highvoltage> it will select the dependencies and stuff you need to run gnome.
<ioio24> wau...! so simple?
<ioio24> soo simple?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> ah, wait
<highvoltage> you could just do
<highvoltage> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<highvoltage> even simpler :)
<ioio24> :))
<ioio24> the apt tool use the cd or internet to do this?
<ogra> ioio24, depends how you configure it, if you use apt-cdrom toadd the CD, it will use the CD (see man apt-cdrom)
!lilo:*! if you're a tor user with a group cloak (i.e., any cloak but "unaffiliated"), and you've been experiencing problems with your group cloak being overwritten by your tor cloak, please message me
#edubuntu 2005-08-26
* IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 :are supported by this server 
* SAFELIST CASEMAPPING=ascii CHANNELLEN=30 TOPICLEN=450 KICKLEN=450 KEYLEN=23 USERLEN=10 HOSTLEN=63 SILENCE=50  are supported by this server
-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- This nickname is owned by someone else
-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password accepted - you are now recognized
* mode/ubuntulog [+e]  by services.
-MemoServ(MemoServ@services.)- You have no new memos
<Marky> is there a biology program included in edubuntu ?
<mhz> is image 21 working?
<bz0b> hello all
<mhz_food> ogra: ping?
<ogra> mhz_food, pong
<mhz> :)
<mhz> how is your energy these days, Mr. developer?
<bz0b> hey guys
<ogra> like sunday :)
<bz0b> easy like sunday mornin'
<mhz> hey bz0b 
<ogra> heh
<mhz> :)
<bz0b> ;_
<bz0b> so
<bz0b> you guys all use edubuntu i presume?
<mhz> ogra: is it worth to downlad image 21
<mhz> ?
<mhz> bz0b: nop, not yet
<mhz> I use Ubuntu
<bz0b> oh
<bz0b> I ran it on my laptop and it was really laggy
<bz0b> but kubuntu wasent
<bz0b> weird
<mhz> ubuntu and kubuntu should be the same
<mhz> only diff desktop
<mhz> it's like I say FluxBuntu :D
<mhz> or XFCEBuntu
<bz0b> Is there XFCEBuntu?
<bz0b> OMG!
<bz0b> hehe
<bz0b> jk
<ogra> mhz, you can see it in the report.html file ... if edubuntu-server/-desktop are installable , its fine... but we had a libcairo transition the last days, i doubt thats already done
<mhz> however, I do say it may vary some dependencies and libs
<bz0b> hmm
<bz0b> if I install ubuntu in server mode
<bz0b> what does it install?
<ogra> only a base system
<bz0b> that was I can choose just the packages I want
<mhz> yep, that's the idea
<ogra> you can install what you want on top
<bz0b> does it come with anypackages
<bz0b> like wget or anything?
<mhz> it should take longer, that's it
<mhz> nop
<mhz> you can use
<mhz> APT
<ogra> :)
<mhz> like this:
<bz0b> yay
<bz0b> it has apt-get then right?
<mhz> apt-get install x-window-system xfce4
<bz0b> alright good
<mhz> plus you specify all the other packages you may need
<mhz> just keep in mind it will take longer, lot longer
<bz0b> oh i know
<bz0b> like whenever it requires a lib or something i will need to apt-get it
<mhz> alos, you may also want to install 'default' and then just apt-get your desktop
<bz0b> but i rather have it that way then have it install a lot of programs i will never use
<mhz> bz0b: apt-get will automatically call and install all dependencies at the time you install any package
<bz0b> oh i know
<bz0b> but when i compile sources
<mhz> bz0b: oh, good point
<mhz> ogra: so you would suggest I do the demo with 21?
<ogra> mhz, nope, i'd suggest to do the demo with the one linked from http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra> ... install edubuntu-server from the net and run a complete update at the end....
<bz0b> Last year, I was a student at a high school, here in california, and the teacher ran a 40 box LTSP server, I was also the Computer Club president, and will be again this year, and this year, now that that teacher is gone, another teacher that was helping us all last year is taking his place, and since I hold up most power in the computer club, I was deciding maybe to go with edubuntu
<mhz> good idea if Edubuntu suits your needs
<ogra> yup
<bz0b> But if I could get maybe like 2 good servers, and maybe 1 good /home server, we can install LTSP on the edubuntu servers, and run the 40 boxes again, except with ubuntu instead of fedora
<mhz> ogra: you mean ~ogra/ iso?
<ogra> yep
<bz0b> the thin client way
<mhz> bz0b: personally, DEB rock!!
<bz0b> Yeah
<ogra> mhz, thats proven to install fine, but is missing the edubuntu-server package...
<bz0b> but I got debowned today when using ubuntu!
<mhz> ogra: oh, good! Now I understand your point
<ogra> mhz, just follow the wikipage and you should hav a fine system
<mhz> ogra: okidoki
<bz0b> debowned is a word me and my friends came up with, like whenever I got stuck or something, he kept saying I got debowned, or debian owned
<ogra> to have the newest and shiniest in the end, run a update after you set it up
<mhz> yep
<ogra> (i havent tried 21 yet... but it will have regressions i think)
<mhz> :)
<mhz> ogra: is that the very same iso it was present on 19th??
<ogra> nope, thats from the 18th... somehow it got deleted, thats why i have it in my ~
<bz0b> where can i get some good repositories for apt-get for ubuntu
<ogra> mhz, the 19th was totally broken...
<mhz> ogra: boo! I was getting happy I did not need another download :(
* mhz downloading ogra's
<ogra> it was present on the 18th...
* mhz did not download 18th :D
<ogra> it was also present on the 19th, but vanished on the 20th... 
<ogra> lets compare md5sums before you download again...
<ogra> 5bd572786f925ee65aac391c841bd8c7
<mhz> please... can you tell me how
<ogra> md5sum breezy-install-i386.iso
<mhz> duh! that simple???????
<ogra> drops you out this hash
<ogra> if its identical, they are the same
<mhz> should it take a while before outout?
<ogra> yep...
<mhz> oh, it has dropped
<mhz> 51564dea2e9c6fd4d9af136ebf8e541
<bz0b> mhz the apt-get install x-window-system xfce4 was saying how it has been obsoleted or like available in another source
<ogra> mhz, thats a different one
<mhz> that seems to be 18th
<mhz> bz0b: hmm, first you should edit your source.list
<bz0b> ok
<bz0b> then i will apt-get update
<bz0b> and then apt-cache search xfce
<bz0b> ?
<mhzlibre> nop
<bz0b> what then?
<mhzlibre> you should uncomment the commented lines
<bz0b> i did
<mhzlibre> ohh
<bz0b> and commented cd
<mhzlibre> then, yes, u are right
<mhzlibre> :)
<bz0b> :)
<bz0b> yay it works now
<mhzlibre> cool
<bz0b> do you think xfce is any good?
<bz0b> or do you like flux better?
<mhz> ogra: sorry, could you paste again?
<ogra> what ?
* mhz is a very diff pc now
<ogra> the md5 ? 
<mhzlibre> yeps
<ogra> 5bd572786f925ee65aac391c841bd8c7
<mhz> thx
<mhzlibre> that is from 19th, right? and you say 18th was alright too?
<bz0b> wow what is all this speak of 18th 19th 20th if i may ask
<bz0b> I am completely lost
<mhzlibre> we're talking about girls
<mhzlibre> ogra: has had a diff girl each day
<mhzlibre> :D
<bz0b> yay!
<bz0b> :D
<ogra> mhzlibre, thats the one from the 18th
<mhzlibre> .oO(living in a campus is cool, sometimes)
<mhzlibre> yep, I thought so
<bz0b> wow the xfce looks great
<ogra> mhzlibre, i live in the middle of nowhere, here are no girls :)
<mhzlibre> bz0b: no, we are talking about the edubuntu daily ISO's ogra has been working on
<mhzlibre> ogra: where do you live?
<ogra> germany... in the eifel... in a 400 ppl village
<mhzlibre> ooooh
<ogra> about 10 km to the next gas station
<mhzlibre> and no girls?????????
<mhzlibre> geee
<mhzlibre> no wonder you use computers :D
* ogra has a girlfriend that cares for everything except the computers here :)
<mhzlibre> I have to say I could not resist it. Me, as latin man, need to see girls every day
<mhzlibre> LOL
<bz0b> hhahaaha
<bz0b> Latina's are hott!
<mhzlibre> hehehe
<mhzlibre> many, not all
<mhzlibre> I am married though, so I can't see girls very much, just take a quick view
<ogra> mhzlibre, http://www.grawert.net/gallery/pano/
<mhzlibre> temptation would be too much, and I could loose much too
<mhzlibre> so I just stay focus
<mhzlibre> on work
<mhzlibre> ogra: wow! very nice to live 4 days a week
<ogra> why 4 ?
<mhzlibre> I would need a little of city noise 3 days. Or I could live there 7 days a week if I had a car and city is not further than 20 mins by car
<ogra> ah
<mhzlibre> or 30 mins by bycilce
<mhzlibre> bike
* mhzlibre downloading iso 19th
<ogra> mhz, 19th wont work
<mhz> your iso?
<ogra> thats 18th :)
<mhz> oh
* mhz downloading iso Ogra'sth
<mhz> :D
<ogra> heh
<bz0b> does anyone here use bitchx?
<bz0b> how do I just between channels?
<ogra> <--xchat
<bz0b> good idea
<bz0b> j #kubuntu
#edubuntu 2005-08-27
<bz0b> hey guys
<LinuxJones> bz0b, hi
* P3L|C4N0 o/
<JaneW> morning all
<Burgundavia> morning JaneW 
<jsgotangco> hi
<JaneW> hi
<highvoltage> hi there
<Burgundavia> morning ogra 
<ogra> morning
<jsgotangco> JaneW, that email fo sabdfl is very ZA-specific :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, is it ? 
<jsgotangco> well it is a call in ZA, but he hopes it would be a model to the world
<ogra_> jsgotangco, he calls for descriptions of projects that already exist worldwide.... sure the target is ZA...
<JaneW> hi ogra
<JaneW> how are you today?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes "This is a mail to the global Ubuntu community, to ask for your help in formulating a national government strategy on Free Software for South Africa. We hope this work will also be used as a model for many countries world wide."
<JaneW> jsgotangco: the call is global, but the aim in this case is focused on SA
<ogra_> JaneW, a bit better...
<JaneW> ogra_: snap
<jsgotangco> i wanna cry
<ogra_> jsgotangco, why ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra_, Hoary and Breezy are a PITA in the laptop that was sent to me
<ogra_> thats why you got it... to have it solved in breezy+1
<jsgotangco> well yeah
<jsgotangco> its just frustrating its a nice unit
<JaneW> ogra_: how are you today?
<ogra_> JaneW, still a bit better :)
<JaneW> ogra_: good...
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i like the idea though and probably contribute some in the wiki
<jsgotangco> i will forward his email to a local list
<ogra_> JaneW, but it looks like gnome-power will be deferred :( i cant make its architecture work for us, its too similar to network-manager... mdz will slay me i guess....
<JaneW> PITAs are nice:)
<jsgotangco> ogra_, do you think a successful install will also depend on how a unit is physically placed (say on top of a bed compared to a sturday table)
<jsgotangco> it sounds silly though
<ogra_> hmmm
<jsgotangco> (considering the angle of the install media)
<ogra_> depends how crappy assembled your HW is...
<ogra_> i.e. my built in DVD in this laptop cant even read bought audio CDs, if i reburn them on DVD its fine...
<JaneW> PITA=?
<JaneW> ogra_: dare I ask if any of our frustrating situation has improved yet?
<ogra_> JaneW, a bit... 
<ogra_> JaneW, mhz made a sucessfull install yesterday if i understood him right... he has a presentation with edubuntu these days
<jsgotangco> hmmm i will be making a presentation in a local university, maybe its a good idea to show edubuntu
<ogra_> jsgotangco, do you present ltsp ? mhz is explicitly going for a ltsp install :)
<jsgotangco> well i have 2 laptops i can try
<jsgotangco> i can probably just show to the faculty
<ogra_> note that ltsp doesnt work over wireless
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> i'll do a cross cable then
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> jsgotangco, just follow the notes on http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting and dont use the daily CDs
<jsgotangco> use colony instead?
<ogra_> nope, the one thats linked from that wikipage...
<jsgotangco> okay
<ogra_> (this is sort of a edubuntu colony)
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra_] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Wed 24 Aug 12:00 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http:and tested//www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra_] : Welcome to the discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | Unstable CD image: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current - first official release due in October 2005. NEXT MEETING:  Wed 24 Aug 12:00 UTC on #ubuntu-meeting. | CALL FOR TESTERS: to test our CD see: http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<ogra_> grmpf
<ogra_> and tested
<jsgotangco> ogra's colony? heh
<ogra_> heh :=)
<ogra_> JaneW, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<ogra_> looking better :)
<ogra_> hey, i said its looking better... no reason to flee...
<JaneW> do we need an equivalent page to this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryArtwork for edubutnu?
<ogra_> heh, you seem to have the same thoughts today, i'm just creating the edubuntu-artwork package... and wanted to ask if i should simply include all wallpapers we have on the wiki now
<ogra_> i dont think we need such a page...
<ogra_> at least not the special "icons" part
<ogra_> JaneW, did you get my last msg before your line dropped ? 
<ogra_> <ogra_> JaneW, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<ogra_> <ogra_> looking better :)
<jsgotangco> wooo now language-pack-en stalls at stage 2 88%
<jsgotangco> what more can I ask :)
<ogra_> switch to tty4
<ogra_> (alt f4)
<ogra_> what does it say
<jsgotangco> hmmm i wasn't able to do that i forced to shutdown the machine
<ogra_> hmm... did you have network connection during install ? 
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra_> hmm...
<ogra_> i dont have that here
<jsgotangco> this is colony 3
<ogra_> ah, i thought you installed the edubuntu CD
<jsgotangco> oh the edubuntu cd installs fine
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> nice to hear
<jsgotangco> i am complaining about the beloved Tecra M2
<jsgotangco> Breezy's X is the most beautiful i have seen yet though
<ogra_> JaneW, http://www.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples should i put all wallpapers in the package for now to have them selectable in the theme selector ? (except the one that says "testing")
<jsgotangco> ogra_, if stage 2 still hangs i can just check on tty4 and see what's being done right?
<ogra_> yup
<jsgotangco> ok anything else or just tty4?
<jsgotangco> because its asking me a question if I should install packages, etc.
<ogra_> tty4 shows the progress of the installation
<jsgotangco> ok great i will just restart this andcheck
<JaneW> gess what's up with my link today...? :(
<ogra_> JaneW, so another time...
<ogra_> JaneW, http://www.edubuntu.org/Preview_Wallpaper_Examples should i put all wallpapers in the package for now to have them selectable in the theme selector ? (except the one that says "testing")
<ogra_> i think that makes sense
<ogra_> hmm, seems she dropped again...
* ogra_ waves to JaneW 
<ogra_> JaneW, alive now ? 
<ogra_> poor jane_
<Petaris> Hi ogra_
<ogra_> hey Petaris
<jane_> ogra: sorry this line is just ridiculous today...
<jane_> ogra: but at least I am catching up on my e-mail backlog
<ogra_> jane_: i know how that feels.... :/
* Petaris wonders if there is a way to push icons to users screens
<ogra_> Petaris: try sabayon... and create a user profile
<Petaris> You know a management interface that allows you to change client desktops easily would be wonderful, make the change and have the users logout  then back in and tada
<ogra_> we'll probably include it
<ogra_> thats sabayon
<Petaris> is that gnome only?
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> its the gnome version of kiosk mode but far more fine grained
<Petaris> I need a better solution
<Petaris> :/
<ogra_> but it does exactly what you described above
<Petaris> But I need a solution for icewm
<ogra_> thats why we didnt pick icewm for this release, there is no sane and easy solution...
<ogra_> you have to edit /etc/skel or the users ~/.icewm files... thats evil ...
<Petaris> ogra_: If you plan on having a light weight ltsp offering you will need some easy way for users to manage the client desktops
<Petaris> what is /etc/skel?
<ogra_> yup... as i said, tat will require a good thought out solution that takes time to develop... so we picked the stuff we know that works for this release...
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra_> the default files that get copied into the users home dir, some people do the default settings for icewm there
<Petaris> I suppose that one could do it with a perl script
<Petaris> oh, ok
<ogra_> sure, but on the next upgrade your changes might be lost...
<ogra_> thats why you dont just use random perl scripts for such things
<Petaris> not if that script pulls from a static config file
* Petaris has an idea
<Petaris> you could create a dumby user and set their profile up to be a template that the script pulls from to set for all users of the ltsp group
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> it could be done   ;)
* Petaris puts on his mad scientist hat and starts tinkering
<Petaris> ogra: do you know if there is a lesson pack for ktouch?
<jane_> ogra: so do we have anything workable yet?
<ogra_> jane_ sure, we already have users... mhz is about to do a presentation with edubuntu
<ogra_> jane_ Petaris is using hios own tweaked version...
<ogra_> his even
<ogra_> jane_ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
<ogra_> jane_ the one yellow one from -desktop is a bit odd but should be solved today or tomorrow (depending on pitti)
<jane_> yay
<jane_> :)
<jane_> your mood seems a lot lighter too
<jane_> so good news all round
<jane_> desktop is looking great
<ogra_> due to seb128's transition over the weekend all cdbuilds (ubuntu too) are broken currentyl, but i'm confident well have our CD ready if ubuntu builds agaion
<jane_> is server still a headache? (awaiting kamion?)
<ogra_> Kamion is needed for preseed changes on the CD... 
<ogra_> the rest should sort itself over time...
<ogra_> nvu is giving me headdaches, but i'm just tlaking with a c++ god this second who might hlep me out here
<ogra_> the moodle change is relatively trivial... and the rest of server is only pending pitti reviews
<ogra_> (which would already been done, but sabdfl requested a new version of schooltool last week)
<jane_> ok
<jane_> elaborate?
<jane_> new version of schooltool?
<ogra_> i have gotten the new schooltool packages on thursday, uploaded on friday... pitti wanted to do the inclusion report for the old version on wednesday, but would have needed a new one for the new version... so that was pending until friday...
<ogra_> they are there now... as soon as he has time for it, he'll go on with the reviews
<jane_> gah I can not get the BreezyGoal owneres to update their goals without a struggle
<jane_> and Matt is getting harsh about it...
<ogra_> yes, i can understand it.. it hurts me too to defer gnome-power, but i spent the whole weekend with it and it would still requirew too much work to get it ready this release...
<ogra_> its like admitting ou didnt make your job...
<ogra_> jane_: nobody likes to admit that he failed his goals...
<JaneW> ogra: understood but Matt is adamant that it;s now Feature Freeze so things are either in or out now...
<ogra_> i understand that but it still hurts
<JaneW> ogra: I understand his need to be tought too
<JaneW> ogra: yes, far too much has been deferred
<JaneW> but we have learned from it
<JaneW> it was unrealistic to tackle quite so many goals
<JaneW> we need to streamline better next time
<ogra_> hehe, yes, dont pick up random suggestions from users on conferences
<JaneW> and prioritise
<JaneW> nod nod nod
<ogra_> yup
<Rondom> quote: ogra_: thats why we didnt pick icewm for this release, there is no sane and easy solution.
<Rondom> does that mean icewm won't be the standard wm for edubuntu?
<Rondom> hi
<ogra_> Rondom: nope
<George> hello
<ogra_> Rondom: as you can read on www.edubuntu-org
<George> I'm doing an article on Linux in Education and I'm very interested in the edubuntu project
<ogra_> s/-/.
<George> :)
<George> ogra_: are you one of the devels?
<ogra_> yup
<George> cool
<George> ogra_: do you know much about the Skubuntu installations in S. Africa?
<ogra_> George: and jane_ is our release manager :)
<George> :)
<ogra_> George: that would be a question for highvoltage, he's skubuntu dev
<George> ah, ok
<ogra_> they presented skubuntu o our summit though
<ogra_> s/o/on
<George> is there anything you can tell me about edubuntu, as the wiki seems to be a bit of a maze
<George> and a bit thin on details
<Rondom> george: indeed
<ogra_> its a "out of the box ltsp install" with gome desktop, educational apps and a handfull of servers like mediawiki, schooltool and moodle
<George> ogra_: ah cool
<George> ogra_: what's its relationship with ubuntu?
<ogra_> all stuff we develop gets developed in ubuntu 
<George> ah
<George> ogra_: do you think you could provide me with some screenshots?
<ogra_> only the app selection that lands on the CD, the artwork and the server stuff are different
<George> ok
<Rondom> the wiki isn't a big maze, it's only sometimes difficult to find the things you need, but this is murphy's law
<George> Rondom: hehe
<Rondom> question, will there alo be live-cds for edubuntu
<George> yes, that's a point
<ogra_> currently they would look like ubuntu... there is not much difference yet... i'm just fifnishing the artwork package here so we can actually use the contributed stuff
<Rondom> yes
<Rondom> I only considered showing other people at school edubuntu wehn it#s mature enough
<George> ogra_: do you think you could send me some screenshots to publish?
<ogra_> Rondom: i planned it, but i doubt we'll have enough time this release... additionally you couldnt really use ltsp from a CD its just to slow 
<ogra_> Rondom: it would be rather a presentation tool to have a liveCD
<Rondom> you have a point
<Rondom> ltsp wasn't the thing I would use on a live-cd
<George> ogra_: please? :)
<Rondom> but I doubt linux has big chance at our school
<ogra_> George: as i said, we currently look like ubuntu... as soon as we have something i can send you shots of it indeed
<George> ah
<George> ok
<Rondom> they don't even use ff and oo, but ie and ms office
<ogra_> there is no big difference... as long as it doesnt come to visual basic driver enhancements
<George> ogra_: can you tell me a bit about the Student Control Panel?
<George> ogra_: or point me to some resources about it?
<ogra_> George: it is unlikely to be ready for this release, but it will give te teacher control over the logged in students and their running apps 
<George> ahh, cool
<George> ogra_: any screenies?
<ogra_> www.grawert.net/SCP.png
<ogra_> brb
<Rondom> ogra_, are you from germany
<jane_> hi George 
<JaneW> sorry this is really me
<George> hey :)
<JaneW> I have been bouncing between sessions today, trying to get a persistent connection
<George> heh
<JaneW> George: regarding screenshots and details etc etc
<JaneW> we don't have that much available yet
<George> ok
<JaneW> because orga is still slaving away to get the fountation put together
<JaneW> foundation even
<JaneW> and it has been a challenge to say the least
<JaneW> ;)
<George> hardly surprising :)
<George> distros are big projects
<George> heh
<JaneW> hopefully in the next couple of weeks we can make steady progress and start getting some nice look and feel stuff on top to
<JaneW> too
<George> nice
<George> I presume GNOME was used as that's the default DE for Ubuntu?
<George> (said like a true KDE dude)
<George> :)
<Petaris> Random: What type of school?
<Rondom> Petaris: do you mean me
<JaneW> George: yes we are Gnome by default (althoug that was quite a debate)
<Rondom> what do you want to know exactly?
<George> JaneW: heh
<Rondom> Petaris: are you familiar with the german school system?
<Petaris> Rondom: no I'm not
<Petaris> I was just curious what grade levels your school serves
<Petaris> I'm K-12 here, but I'm not sure how that translates
<Rondom> after primary school we have three types of school: you have one school for the good pupils, one for the average and one for the worse pupils
<Rondom> I went to the gymnasium (a dictionary says it's "grammar school" in english), which is the school for better pupils. After that you go to the oberstufe
<ogra_> Rondom: ha ha 
<ogra_> (school for "better" pupils)
<Rondom> after finishing the oberstufe you have something similiar to the A-Levels in the english/american school-system
<Rondom> ogra_, are you from germany?
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> and i doubt that a gymnasium is a "school for better pupils"
<Rondom> yes I meant
<Rondom> good
<Rondom> but it's is a school for better pupils
<Rondom> and the realschule a school for normal pupils
<Rondom> and the hauptschule is a school for pupils who are a little bit worse
<Rondom> petaris, where are you from?
* ogra_ was at a comprehensive school that was in the same building with a grammar school... guess where more people left school with a good exam
<Rondom> don't know
<Petaris> Rondom: US
<ogra_> Rondom: not the grammar school...
<Rondom> WEll, I also went to a comprehensive school, but visited grammar school there
<Rondom> If you know what I mean
<Rondom> There's a private grammar school in neighbourhood, and it#s the same with them. They believe they are something better
<Rondom> but they aren't
<Rondom> my sister went to that school and it plays a role if you donate
<ogra_> Rondom: i just dont like the term "better pupils"
<ogra_> Rondom: its like saying people living in a third world country are "dumb people"
<ogra_> just because they dont have the abilitys people in first world countrys have.... 
<Rondom> I also don't like it
<Rondom> I don't think of me as something better, because I go to the oberstufe/went to the gymnasium
<Rondom> my neighbour used a car battery, some speakers and a "bike wagon" to have music while riding his bike
<George> ogra_: can I have that picture of the SCP published?
<Rondom> he even built a roof for the wagon, so he can use it when it's rainy
<Rondom> this is something I can't do at all
<Petaris> ogra_: www.primeur.com
<Petaris> er, http://themes.freshmeat.net/projects/ums/
<Petaris> have you seen that before
<ogra_> George: as long as you note that its vaporware for now, sure :)
<George> ogra_: heh, ok
<George> ogra_: I'll say that it's in the works and could be included as early as the second release of Edubuntu
<ogra_> George: i just produced 3 screenshots from the new artwork package (note that its interim for now... we still have to get some artwork)
<George> ogra_: where?
<ogra_> not uploaded yet...
<George> ah, ok
<mhz> re
<George> ogra_: you were educated in .uk? (just reading your comments about grammar/comprehensives)
<ogra_> George: nope, i'm german
<George> ah
<mhz> .oO(we should have something like Wikipedia... we could have "representatives" from each country/region and give a little support to them (hosting, mail, posters, t-shirts, etc) It's been sort of difficult to borrow a server, invest on t-shirts, biz cards, etc.)
<George> ogra_: what sort of control will be given to the teacher in SCP?
<ogra_> George: only the basic... "kick this pupil out", "kill this pupils apps" and "connect to this pupils desktop" actions... 
<ogra_> George: as i said before, for kiosk mode and default profiles we'll have sabayon
<George> ogra_: where connect to this pupil's desktop means remote control or just monitoring?
<ogra_> a vnc connection on one click
<George> ah, ok
<ogra_> the screenshot is a bit outdated, the "network" button looks already more intuitive here...
<highvoltage> hi there. just as i left work, and typed /quit and hit enter, i noticed someone said something to me here, but i missed it.
<highvoltage> sorry :)
<George> hey highvoltage 
<Petaris> Hello highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi Petaris 
<highvoltage> (been talking to george off-channel)
<George> :)
<JaneW> ogra: content filtering? Implemented orDeferred?
<ogra> deferred
<ogra> power management config as well
<JaneW> ogra: ok will edit page now
<ogra> JaneW, thanks, i was about to do it...
<JaneW> np
<ogra> :)
<JaneW> ogra: I like your screenshot btw..now that I have bandwidth I got a chance to see them :)
<JaneW> ogra: but what's the thing that looks like a little embryo in the Usplash screen?
<ogra> JaneW, the nautilus icon....
<ogra> you see it every time you log in...
<JaneW> oic - it's weird!
<JaneW> oh is it a shell?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but a crappy one
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> JaneW, i thought the images as they are are placeholders for now... but we can use them if nobody provides us the artwork we need
<JaneW> by=tw I know you are not the lead but do you know what's up with GraphicalPartitioningTool? I haven;t been able to get an update from Daniel Holbach
<JaneW> ogra: great, at least we have a default then. I think once the CD's are stable and installable we'll get more interest in the artwork
<JaneW> do you agree?
<ogra> JaneW, the patch was mailed to ubuntu-devel and to the UbuntuExpress guys
<JaneW> once ppl are using it they are likley to want to add to and improve it
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i added all the wallpapers from the wiki for now, i need to find out the names and mail adresses from all the submitters for the copyright notes...
<JaneW> ogra: right... mdz thinks there are bits missing... 
<JaneW> "there were a set of specific modifications to gparted that Daniel was
<JaneW> supposed to make, and we need to know which ones are still incomplete."
<JaneW> I have no seen him on line today and he hasn't responded to my mail from Friday
<ogra> ah, ok... i think he refers to the naming of mountpoints
<Petaris> hrm
<highvoltage> ogra, JaneW: how are you doing?
<Petaris> highvoltage: how do you acomplish pushing icons to users screens?
<Petaris> is it a script or do you use that gnome profile manager
<ogra> ok, nvu wont make it... there is no way to support it in main security wise...
<ogra> any suggestions, we have the choice between quanta or screem
<ogra> #?
<Petaris> ogra: is that nvu the web editor
<ogra> yep
<Petaris> I always had issues with it when I tried it
<Petaris> that was when I used dreamweaver though
<highvoltage> Petaris: it's a script, borrowed from k12ltsp
<Petaris> now I just use a text editor
<ogra> it works fine, but due to its source its not supportable
<highvoltage> Petaris: a user drags the icon to an icon on their desktop (link to the script)
<Petaris> highvoltage: ahh, ok
<highvoltage> ths script then accepts this as an argument, and copies this link to all the other users' desktops.
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<Petaris> do you know how it handles the permissions?
<Petaris> oh, wait
<highvoltage> ogra: i think quanta+ is very, very cool.
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<Petaris> I know how I could do that
<highvoltage> Petaris: i think it has a line that chowns it.
<highvoltage> Petaris: i can e-mail the script to you, if you like, it's quite small.
<ogra> highvoltage, the odd thing is that it depends on silly stuff like kfilereplace and uses documentation thats not in main...
* JaneW must go - kids are still up
<highvoltage> ogra: ok. that is silly.
<Petaris> later JaneW
<Petaris> highvoltage: yeah that would be great
<ogra> highvoltage, but it seems to work well... 
<Petaris> I will end up tweaking it for use with icewm
<highvoltage> ogra: ok. people will be able to install it from universe, so all is cool.
<highvoltage> Petaris: your email address?
<Petaris> send it to petaris@gmail.com
<ogra> highvoltage, i'd like tohave everything needed on the CD... only main goes there
<ogra> highvoltage, and having referrals all over the place to non existing docs isnt nice...
<highvoltage> Petaris: sent
<Petaris> cool, thanks
<highvoltage> ogra: i understand, no problemo.
<JaneW> cheers
<highvoltage> JaneW: cheers!
!lilo:*! "I lift this clavicle to worlds without number, and bring a new light to the Way, guiding this gate that all may prosper, those who guide and are guided, who light the Way and bask in the light so given....Behold, I open a new world!"
!lilo:*! --Greg Bear, _Eon_
!lilo:*! (Welcome to our new iteration of herbert.freenode.net, courtesy of IP Minds!)
<Rondom> can I make my ubuntu do an edubuntu by installing a meta package?
<ogra> Rondom, yes
<Rondom> edubuntu-desktop?
<ogra> edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-server are parts of ubuntu
<ogra> and edubuntu-artwork will hit the archive tomorrow i hope
<Rondom> that means if I install a hoary and modify a after-installation script to install these packages I have everything I need for edubuntu?
<ogra> Rondom, in fact our standalone workstation version will be a ubuntu with edubuntu-desktop/-artwork instead of ubuntu-desktop
<ogra> Rondom, only for the standalone workstation version
<ogra> the default edubuntu is a ltsp based thin client server ...
<ogra> workstation will be a install option like the server option is now for ubuntu...
<Rondom> whatever
<Rondom> I was only asking because I got too much ubuntu cds
<ogra> heh
<Rondom> I ordered them at two places
<ogra> CDRW is a fine invention :)
<ogra> oh, ok
<Rondom> and I reduced my orders at shipit.ubuntu-linux.org to zero, but I got three times more than I needed
<ogra> give them away...
<Rondom> that's what I plan to do
<ogra> great :) 
<Rondom> but I don't think anyone needs them
<ogra> thats whats the intention of shipit
<Rondom> yeah I ordered 25 x86, 5 amd64 and 2 ppc there
<ogra> Rondom, 1000 people at linuxtag thought different about it :) 
<Rondom> now I have around 75 x86
<Rondom> 10 amd64
<ogra> and even 500 more would have been grabbed by people if they were there
<Rondom> what do you mean by that?
<ogra> s/were/would have been
<ogra> there were only 1000 ubuntu CDs at linuxtag...
<Rondom> oh, too few
#edubuntu 2005-08-28
<cyphase> hey everyone
<jsgotangco> hi
<jsgotangco> ogra, any idea why edubuntu ogra colony is so slow in stage 1?
<ogra> nope... i didnt see a difference here...
<jsgotangco> hmm i must burn a new one much slower then
<ogra> jsgotangco, hmm, it could be because it still uses the 2.6.12-6 image....
<jsgotangco> its terribly slow i can barely appreciate it
<ogra> strange... its not different to the ubuntu CD it test 
<jsgotangco> i will just burn another copy and see
<pere> ogra: are ubuntu doing anything to speed up the boot process?  There are lots to gain.  I tested and managed to reduce the boot time by 62%.  Check <URL: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/initscripts-ng-devel/2005-August/000097.html >
<ogra> pere, we already did that for hoary...
<ogra> my laptop gets me to gdm in about 35sec
<ogra> (indeed you can still speed up more) 
<mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBoot
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBoot
<ogra> oh
<ogra> heh
<mpt> snap!
<ogra_> GRRR... every 30mins my DSL drops
<ogra_> mpt, i had a disussion with kiko yesterday... i'd like to use a comic based font for the desktop, since our target audience will be between 6 and 16, and it will fit better to the gartoon icon theme we use, what are the ui designer thoughts about that
<ogra_> http://www.grawert.net/edubuntu/
<mpt> ogra_: That seems reasonable, though it would make lots of layouts wider
<mpt> so it might be a good idea to run through all the apps you're shipping to make sure they don't overflow whatever your minimum target resolution is
<mpt> Is there a particular font you have in mind?
<ogra_> mpt, i'm only talking about the desktop font, not the apps
<mpt> (Many less-formal fonts have worse Unicode coverage)
<mpt> ok
<ogra_> i.e. the icon captions on the desktop
<ogra_> TSCu_Comic with at least 13px
<ogra_> thats what i use here now might also be 14px
<ogra_> we ship i in the default desktop, so i assume its utf8 clean
* mpt cringes at that screenshot of Firefox's default home page
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> thats only a test of my edubuntu-artwork package....
<mpt> oh, I didn't notice any special artwork :-)
<ogra_> we'll have another page there... but i'll use the css from ubuntu-artwork .. i dont want to double data if i can avoid it
<ogra_> the logo
<ogra_> :)
<mpt> ogra_: In Germany do your TV channels have their logos as watermarks on the screen all the time during programmes?
<ogra_> mostly... only during commercials they are off
<mpt> yeah
<mpt> NZ channels just started doing that a couple of years ago
* mpt doesn't like Ubuntu doing it either :-)
<ogra_> we do have a TV channel ? 
<ogra_> o_O
<mpt> ogra_: No, but the default background picture does :-)
<ogra_> ah..
<mpt> At least the background is changeable
<ogra_> its nice this way, since you can change the colors but still have the svg in front...
<pere> ogra_ mpt: thank you.  The fixes done in ubuntu seem to be ortogonal to the fixes I did, so I suspect ubuntu can speed up even more. :)
<ogra_> the readahead stuff we already have in hoary speeds up quite well...
<pere> I believe you.  :)  Reorganizing and running in parallel did that too.
<ogra_> yup
<ogra_> and both together is the speed overkill ;)
<mpt> As long as Ubuntu takes more than five seconds to start up, speeding it up is not overkill
<ogra_> you can reduce it below 5.... just rip out the bios and put a linux rom in ;)
<ogra_> ok, probably not below 5... but near this :)
<mpt> I remember in the early '90s seeing ads for laptops with Windows, Word, and Excel in ROM
<ogra_> there is a linux project for this...http://www.linuxbios.org/index.php/Main_Page
<mpt> awesome
<mpt> HP should port that to their laptops :-)
<ogra_> yeah
<Petaris> Hello janeW
<janeW> hi Petaris 
<Petaris> does upgrade work on edubuntu yet?
<Petaris> janeW: I have my icewm setup almost ready
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> Petaris, why shouldnt it ? 
<Petaris> just curios if this early release would be upgradable
<ogra> as long as upgrade on ubuntu works, it will also work on edubuntu, but keep in mind it is in development, so you might upgrade to broken stuff
<Petaris> yeah, I wasn't going to try it yet
<Petaris> I just wanted to know
<Petaris> is the artwork package ready yet?
<ogra> sure, as long as you stayed with the standards it will work flawless... if you tewakesd in non standard ways it might break your tweakage... like in ubuntu or debian
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> most of my tweaking is fairly simple
<ogra> its not about simplicity
<Petaris> and some scripts do the rest
<ogra> its about *how*
<ogra> i.e. with scripts that change defaults of packages... 
<ogra> you cant rely on that this defaults are there after an upgrade
<Petaris> yes but if it breaks it my tweaks it is simple for me to redo them
<ogra> sure, but you'll have to redo them on every security upgrade (worst case)
<Petaris> yep, until you include them  :)
<Petaris> most are just user interface tweaks
<Petaris> and things like pushing the icons to users
<Petaris> simple stuff
<Petaris> things you will need for your icewm solution
<Petaris> I will take some screenshots soon
<Petaris> so you can see
<Petaris> it is nothing fancy, just standard
<Petaris> but is the icon artwork package ready yet?
* Petaris installs samba for his users shared space
<ogra> Petaris, the icewm solution will require changes to icewm to be done right, we dont just throw random scripts around...
<ogra> thast why i said it will take longer to do it right and wont be done in breezy
<Petaris> ogra: By right you mean what, changing the icewm package to support the things it doesn't support?
<Petaris> *currently
<Petaris> I'm using idesk for the icons
<ogra> exactly...
<Petaris> one of the scripts just pushes a list of icons from a folder to the users folders
<Petaris> I don't see the icewm group adding that feature
<Petaris> to start idesk with the session I just put it in the start file for icewm
<Petaris> that is still what we would need to do
<Petaris> unless icewm desides to support icons directly
<Petaris> which might be in a future release
<Petaris> what do you have agains scripts anyway
<Petaris> most of *nix is scripts
<DanielC> Hello. How unstable is the current release of Edubuntu?
<DanielC> I want to install a Linux thin client system at a local school, but SkoleLinux has really old software.
<ogra> DanielC, http://www.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting
<DanielC> thanks
<ogra> take the image linked there and follow the instructions
<ogra> (dont take the daily, its broken currently)
<DanielC> Ok, thank you.
<ogra> note too that the image is outdated, you should update in the ed
<ogra> end
<DanielC> That's just a 'sudo apt-get update' right?
<DanielC> (and 'sudo apt-get upgrade')
<ogra> yup
<DanielC> good good. thanks for the help.
<JaneW> ogra: I thought the problem with our edubuntu wiki going to the native language default page instead of our english front page was resolved?
<ogra> JaneW, nope, worked around
<ogra> JaneW, it will be solved if the wikis are merged
<JaneW> ok, but we have another complaint...
<JaneW> http://www.edubuntu.org/ForSide
<JaneW> Norwegian or Danish....?
<ogra> looks norwegina, but i'm not sure
<ogra> Mithrandir will know
!lilo:*! Upgrading the testnet to rc6.... we're still testing some patches and have put off the production network upgrade until we're as close to 1.0 release as possible....
<ogra> it is :)
<Rondom> ogra, I asked a Danish guy
<Rondom> he said it's Danish
<ogra_> out norwegian guy says its norwegian :)
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> I think they are fairly similar...
<ogra_> yup
<JaneW> sounds different spoken though
<ogra_> Mithrrrrrrndi also said its capitalized wrong
<JaneW> to them anyway ;)
<ogra_> gah... my keyboard freaks yout
<ogra_> out
<JaneW> lol
<JaneW> ogra_: you falling asleep at your kb like highvoltage  did the other day?
<JaneW> ogra_: btw why do you have a thwip these days?
<ogra_> a thwip ? 
<JaneW> the _
<ogra_> _ _
<ogra_> ?
<mpt> It's the IRC equivalent of a beard
<mpt> The more geek you are, the longer your ___
<JaneW> lol, so yours is growing?
<ogra_> ah, yes, like santa claus :)
<JaneW> heh
<ogra_> i sometimes step on it :)
<ogra_> (no, kidding) 
<JaneW> ogra_: must grow fast...
<ogra_> heh
<JaneW> ogra_: : so how can our user get around the Norwegina/Danish front page again? I thought our admin turned it off...
<JaneW> Norwegian even
<ogra_> i guess thats a hno79 question
<JaneW> ok
<JaneW> night
<JaneW> making the long trek to the office tomorrow, so it's up early for me...
<ogra_> sleep tight JaneW 
#edubuntu 2006-08-21
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Burgundavia> hey sbalneav
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: where in canada are you?
<sbalneav> Hello Burgundavia
<sbalneav> I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba
<Burgundavia> right, now I remember
<Burgundavia> just finished hanging out with Jim and Jim and LWE and Ubucon
<sbalneav> Ah, cool
<sbalneav> Had a good time I hope?
<Burgundavia> I did
<Burgundavia> very tired now
<seba_newbie> Hi all
<Burgundavia> hey seba_newbie
<seba_newbie> I want to make a copy of a edubuntu 6.06 for a friend
<seba_newbie> i do
<seba_newbie> dd if=/dev/hdc of=imagen.iso
<seba_newbie> but i get different md5sums
<seba_newbie> is that normal ?
<seba_newbie> I want to be sure before burning
<seba_newbie> I can mount the image via loop interface
<seba_newbie> and it seems ok
<Burgundavia> why don't you just copy the cd?
<Burgundavia> dump the cd in and you should be able to right-click it and choose copy
<seba_newbie> ahh, its a DVD, not a CD
<Burgundavia> should just work
<seba_newbie> ok, i will try
<sbalneav> brb
<sbalneav> Back
<gotama> Hi! there.
<gotama> How to change the grub setup in edubuntu?
<bimberi> gotama: you can edit /boot/grub/menu.lst - what do you want to change?
<gotama> I want to add suse-linux.
<bimberi> gotama: yes, editing that file is the way.  Exactly what to put I'm not certain, but if you have the grub config on your suse partition you could get the appropriate lines from that
<gotama> I need to do this in edubuntu.
<gotama> After I edit menu.lst how do I activate it?
<bimberi> gotama: does your grub boot menu only offer edubuntu at the moment?
<gotama> Yes.
<bimberi> gotama: then you don't need to do anything else.  grub reads that file at boot time
<gotama> Ok. Thanks. I will try.
<sbalneav> Headin' to bed.  Night all
<highvoltage> good morning everyone!!!
* highvoltage 's attempt to to be less grumpy on monday mornings ^^^
<bimberi_> hehe, good afternoon highvoltage!!!
<highvoltage> good afternoon bimberi_ :)
<bimberi_> :)
<RichEd> good am / pm to all
<highvoltage> good am to you mr RichEd 
<RichEd> highvoltage: janew would like to speaks to Mr T about the cheap mpr3 players he schwangled a while ago ... do you have an email addy for him for her ?
<highvoltage> hilton@inkululeko.co.za
* RichEd bows in thanks ...
<highvoltage> *g*
<RichEd-1> GHOST RichEd i@mbc0s
<highvoltage> ouch
<highvoltage> RichEd: hope you're using unique passwords for different services ;)
<RichEd> highvoltage: yep ... various passwords, various strengths, nothing sensitive crosses over from a public to private space
* RichEd admits that was a bit silly, but only a bit :)
<RichEd> hello ogra ... how's things ?
<RichEd> highvoltage: busy with the kosher email now ... is there a Ubuntu community page that shows country loco teams ?
<ogra> fine
<ogra> just set up my ltsp minilab ... but the net connection here sucks
<ogra> luckily i dont have to care for ltsp development :)
<RichEd> well not for much longer :) after the fest, all responsibilities will fall away, no ?
<ogra> yup, on the wiki
<RichEd> tx ogra : looking now
<looksaus> I haven't installed edubuntu yet, but I do have quite a bit of experience with simple Debian+LTSP setups
<looksaus> I wonder if there is a special ldap administration tool for edubuntu
<looksaus> could someone enlighten me on that?
<RichEd> hi looksaus
<looksaus> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> you've chosen a busy week ... the dev guys are mostly wrapped up in a coding sprint at Wiesbaden
<looksaus> oh... nice to hear there's work being done:)
<RichEd> you are welcome to ask here, but you would probably get a better response from edubuntu-devel maillist
<looksaus> ok
<RichEd> do you need details ?
<looksaus> a url would be nice
<RichEd> brb
<RichEd> here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<RichEd> and here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<RichEd> also try a search across the wiki.ubuntu & help.ubuntu ... here's a good google way of searching all at once:
<RichEd> google input [+site:ubuntu.com +ldap administration tool] 
<RichEd> google input [+site:edubuntu.com +ldap administration tool] 
<looksaus> thx!
<kwak> hello room
<kwak> anybody awake?
<RichEd> hi kwak ... some people here ... but it's quiet : dev sprint week
<kwak> oic
<kwak> but people may answer my question right? im new to ubuntu, been using k12ltsp for 2 years now.
<kwak> and wanted to switch
<kwak> i wanted to know how to configure LTSP? is it ltspcfg?
<kwak> and what is the root password? i can't change to root. 
<kwak> i wanted to know how to configure LTSP? is it ltspcfg?
<RichEd> hi kwak ... sorry been busy in email
<RichEd> are you using Ubuntu or Edubuntu ?
<RichEd> kwak: ping .. check private window
<kwak> edubuntu
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 33m 38s ago, quiting: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
<RichEd> cbx33: hi :)
<RichEd> da boys are coding ...
<RichEd> and network connections seem to be going up ... and down and up and down ...
<RichEd> more so than even divine brown in the back of a taxi
<RichEd> good news from my side is that Will van der Leij is happy to take over case study etc. and manage
<RichEd> he is keen as he has a personal interest in information collation & management
<RichEd> as soon as I can get my big project email under control ... i'll be kicking off a high-level project plan which will will take over
<juliux> morning
<juliux> does somebody knows if this thinclient is working with linux ? http://cgi.ebay.de/Wyse-Winterm-3200LE-Thin-Client_W0QQitemZ250019949152QQihZ015QQcategoryZ8075QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<kwak> juliux: what's the specs of that thin client?
<juliux> kwak, they have pxe
<kwak> if it has PXE, it should work
<kwak> what is the NIC?
<kwak> you may check NICs here. etherboot.com and http://rom-o-matic.net/
<juliux> ah ok
<juliux> i know that i can sue etherboot
<juliux> kwak, i will call wyse in germany ;)
<P3L|C4N0> Features and Specifications (The Winterm 3200LE)  http://wyse.vecmar.com/winterm/products/productpage.asp?pid=4769
<juliux> P3L|C4N0, i found something form wyse but the important things are missing :(
<kwak> like what?
<juliux> like the nic 
<juliux> or the ram type
<juliux> and on the offical website is nothing about pxe :(
<kwak> well just contact them
<kwak> got to go.
<cbx33> RichEd, cool, sounds great
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> ogra, finished the kill/execute dbus functions in scp
<cbx33> also added a little something extra
<cbx33> if you get a sec take a look, I have commented out a bloc of c ode in my repo, just so I can test locally without an LTSP server
<cbx33> the exec function is primitive, but working
<cbx33> I'm thinking we could have a kinda list of apps to start like when you goto open a file that is of an unknown type
<cbx33> lemme know your thougts
<gfxstyler> hi
<gfxstyler> someone alive? 
<cbx33> gfxstyler, yup
<gfxstyler> cool
<cbx33> but I won't be for long :p
<cbx33> making lunch
<gfxstyler> i have a question related to that thin client thingy,you know about that stuff?
<cbx33> yeh
<gfxstyler> does it create a user on the server (with own directory) for each client?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> define client
<cbx33> if by client you mean each machine?
<cbx33> then no
<gfxstyler> a computer which connects to the server
<gfxstyler> yes
<gfxstyler> its not a requirement
<cbx33> users are users just like on any machine
<cbx33> sorry, any network should #I say
<gfxstyler> but they dont have to have any harddisk 
<cbx33> the clients do not have a user
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> they all use the server
<cbx33> there is a "common" harddisk
<gfxstyler> so i set up the server and its like all users use the server? 
<cbx33> called the NFS root
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> gtg
<cbx33> bbiab
<gfxstyler> see you later!
<gfxstyler> bye
<cbx33> any more questions quikc?
<gfxstyler> nope thats all :) 
<cbx33> ok
<gfxstyler> edubuntu seems to be perfect for my needs
<cbx33> give it a go
<cbx33> it's is a very cool system
<gfxstyler> im downloading + burning the cd 
<willvdl> hear hear
<cbx33> hey rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> SCP spec is about 3/4 done :D
<gfxstyler> hey
<gfxstyler> do you think an amd athlon xp 2200+ is enough to power 25 thin clients?
<rodarvus> cbx33, nice!
<rodarvus> keep up the good work!
<cbx33> gfxstyler, possibly
<juliux> gfxstyler, how much ram the server has?
<cbx33> juliux, was just about to ask that
<gfxstyler> the server has yet to be built :) 
<gfxstyler> i have 2 spare 2200+ and one 3200+ available 
<gfxstyler> but i have no mainboard supporting the 3200+ 
<cbx33> use the 3200 :D
<cbx33> then it'll kick ass
<gfxstyler> + the 3200+ gets _damn_ hot 
<juliux> gfxstyler, i have an xp 2400+ with 2.5GB ram and the maximum was 22thin clients
<gfxstyler> damn
<gfxstyler> okay so i guess i'll give the 3200+ to my school 
<gfxstyler> hurts in my heart, lol
<juliux> gfxstyler, use and athlon64 if you want to buy a new cpu
<gfxstyler> i didnt use it for a few years but still ...
<cbx33> gfxstyler, is this running in an already linux envrionment?
<gfxstyler> nope
<cbx33> windows?
<gfxstyler> every computer currently uses its own breezy system
<cbx33> ahhhh
<cbx33> ok cool
<gfxstyler> and gets managed with a script
<gfxstyler> home directory gets cleared on boot and replaced with a configuration backup made by me 
<gfxstyler> so the pupils dont mess up the system 
<gfxstyler> which worked quite well so far, but its too slow 
<gfxstyler> and the idiots complained about "what? where is the start-button? where is the windows icon? omg omg! and where is internet explorer!!" 
<gfxstyler> lol
<cbx33> gfxstyler, hehaha
<cbx33> I started a Young Linux Users Groups at the school I work at
<cbx33> they love is
<cbx33> it
<gfxstyler> w00t
<gfxstyler> good idea
<gfxstyler> i should recommend that 
<cbx33> I'm hoping to expand it this year to a 25 computer lab
<gfxstyler> a linux work group
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> we meet up twice a week
<cbx33> at lunch times, and discuss linux and free software
<cbx33> we are still on windows mostly 
<gfxstyler> first i'd have to clear some facts (prejudices about linux) 
<cbx33> I have a dual boot system with windows as the first, and the other is the NFS boot #LTSP edubuntu
<cbx33> gfxstyler, yup
<gfxstyler> its really hard to get people to linux here because they think its hard and for freaks only and windows is said to be way better and faster 
<cbx33> I've given out over 30 ubuntu discs at the school
<gfxstyler> and they measure computer speed = bootup time 
<cbx33> yup
<gfxstyler> 50 discs here :) 
<cbx33> nice
<gfxstyler> all i got
<gfxstyler> mean, i want one, too 
<cbx33> right I'm off - nice talking to you gfxstyler 
<cbx33> hope to see youn around soon
<gfxstyler> see you cbx33! 
<gfxstyler> yeah
<cbx33> bb in about 4-5 hours 
<juliux> hi jsgotangco 
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> hello juliux! hello RichEd!
* jsgotangco just arrived from holiday
<RichEd> jsgotangco: we have a Canonical phone meeting tomorrow with Intel ... you are on the agenda !
<RichEd> jsgotangco: feeling rested ?
* jsgotangco didnt do anything to bork the latest intel processor he swears
<jsgotangco> very
<jsgotangco> no net access for 3 days is bliss
<RichEd> jsgotangco: i'll need to confirm some stuff with you before the meeting .. will you be around in 30 mins ?
<jsgotangco> yes
<RichEd> cool ... juliux you wanted me earlier ?
<juliux> RichEd, when ever you want ;)
<juliux> RichEd, i am a student i have time
<RichEd> give me 5 for a coffee in and coffee out (reverse order)
<juliux> hehe
<RichEd> jsgotangco: my brain is fried too much multi-tasking ... did i send you intel links in IRC last week, or in an email ?
<jsgotangco> yes you sent me an email
<RichEd> thanks ... i'll dig it out
<RichEd> jsgotangco: got a quick 5 mins for me ?
<jsgotangco> RichEd: go for it
<bddebian> Hello
<sbalneav> Morning bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Ogra's at the sprint I see!
<bddebian> sbalneav: Got Ubuntu running on that zx81 yet? ;-P
<jsgotangco> sprint?
<hkrug1> hi i'm experienced in using ubuntu and just installed my first edubuntu 6.06.1 server. Unfortunately there were several problems most importantly: sudo does not work. The user created during installation can login on the server, but not execute sudo. What can I do ?
<sbalneav> jsgotangco: I beleive there's an ubuntu code sprint somewhere in east Europe.  I think I know the name but I'd probably get it horribly wrong.
<sbalneav> bddebian: heh, with 16 k of ram, I think it might be a bit tough :)
<jsgotangco> oh yeah in germany
* jsgotangco almost forgot
<hkrug1> Nobody out there who knows why sudo does not work just after installing edubuntu 6.06.1 ??
<jsgotangco> ?
<sbalneav> hkrug1: have you logged in as the user who you entered during the install, or are you trying to sudo from a different user?
<RichEd> hkrug1: can you be more specific "does not work"
<hkrug1> I logged in as the user whom I entered during the install.
<RichEd> yep ...
<sbalneav> what happens when you try to sudo?
<hkrug1> Then I tried sudo (more exact: thried to installed the available updates)
<RichEd> and when you try sudo [password rejected / operates as normal user / machine bursts into flame] 
<hkrug1> An error message appears
<RichEd> hi sbalneav :)
<sbalneav> Could you give us the exact error message?
<hkrug1> Any further time I try sudo: simply nothing, no message
<sbalneav> Morning RichEd 
<hkrug1> To give you the exact message I have to reboot the system, because the message appears only once. I'm doing this right now.
<sbalneav> oh just wait
<sbalneav> lets try something else quickly first
<sbalneav> Or have you already started?
<hkrug1> Already reboots ;-)
<sbalneav> ah, ok, well, we'll get it in a second then.
<hkrug1> now its up - i log into it
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Lets start a terminal
<sbalneav> application->accessories->terminal
<sbalneav> Morning ogra!
<hkrug1> done
<sbalneav> How's the sprint?
<sbalneav> ok, lets type this:
<sbalneav> sudo su -
<hkrug1> sudo su - .. it requires password ... i give the password
<hkrug1> but I'm I not root
<hkrug1> no error message
<sbalneav> ok, type 'id' and paste the results
<RichEd> sbalneav: thanks ... i've got to get into a phone conference in 5 mins ... appreciate the help
<ogra> sbalneav: hey
<hkrug1> cannot past because other system:
<ogra> got myself a usb floppy today
<sbalneav> ok, does it say something like:
<sbalneav> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
<sbalneav> ogra: Cool.
<ogra> well ...
<hkrug1> uid=1000(holgerkrug) gid=1000(holgerkrug) groups=4(adm),.....116(admin)...
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> lets do this:
<ogra> sbalneav: alaska is cool ... that thing rather disappointing 
<sbalneav> getent group admin
<ogra> *is
<hkrug1> admin:x:116:holgerkrug
<sbalneav> Hmmmm
<hkrug1> Hmmmmmm
<hkrug1> maybe I shall boot a live cd and then check the contents of /etc/sudoers ?
<ogra> did you try sudo -s or sudo -i ?
<hkrug1> ogra: not, tried them now: both do simply *nothing*
<sbalneav> ogra: sudo doesn't have something dumb like a limit of 8 char usernames, does it? :(
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> doh it doesn't afaik
<hkrug1> if I remember correct: I already used the same username on an ubuntu box
<hkrug1> sudo worked then
<sbalneav> ogra: what's up with the floppy?  With a usb floppy you'll have to plug it in with the floppy already in the drive.
<sbalneav> ogra: usb floppies are hopelessly ick.
<sbalneav> boot with a live cd, and lets check the sudoers file.
<hkrug1> OK going to boot dapper
<sbalneav> I can't see what might have gone wrong, everything look ok, and of course, we can't see the sudoers file without a sudo :(
<hkrug1> only sudoers can see sudoers
<sbalneav> :
<sbalneav> :)
<hkrug1> only sudoers and dapper drakes can see sudoers, lets see what the drake will tell use ;-)
<hkrug1> actually the drake has problems maybe with the sata raid
<hkrug1> but the drake solved the problems
<ogra> sbalneav: teh usbfloppy woud be fine if it would actually appear as a floppy with the udev line you gave me ;) we'll need to check for ID_TYPE instead 
<hkrug1> sudoers: root ALL=(ALL) ALL
<hkrug1> thats all
<hkrug1> no very many sudoers out there in edubuntu 6.06.1
<sbalneav> ogra: ah, no, that udev lines for legacy floppies.
<sbalneav> I didn't do anything for usb floppies.
<ogra> sbalneav: i'd like to find a generic way ....
<sbalneav> hkrug1: ok
<ogra> ${ID_TYPE} seems the way to go
<sbalneav> lets change it to:
<sbalneav> hkrug1: add the following line:
<sbalneav> %admin  ALL=(ALL) ALL
<sbalneav> That means anyone in the admin group should get sudo access.
<sbalneav> ogra: The problem with floppies is, ID_TYPE only gets set when the ^%(&@% disk's in the drive :(
<ogra> how did that file end up like that ? did you ever open it without visudo ? 
<ogra> (never ever use a normal editor to edit it)
<hkrug1> I know but how to change sudoers ? chmod +w and afterwards chmod -w ?
<ogra> hkrug1: sudo visudo
<sbalneav> ogra: We had to special case usb floppies with the rule: KERNEL=="sd[a-z] ",      SYSFS{bInterfaceSubClass}=="04", in "stock" ltsp.  Which is gross.
<hkrug1> ls -l sudoers results in : -r--r-------
<sbalneav> but it worked.
<ogra> from a livecd: sudo chroot /root/where/you/mounted/the/HD
<ogra> and then sudo visudo
<ogra> sbalneav: sounds good
<ogra> i first have to track a HW error that causes the kernel to create 7 devices for it :P
<sbalneav> oh, yeah, that's ANOTHER problem with usb floppies :)
<ogra> well, not with all of them apparently 
<sbalneav> floppies are the WORST thing ever.  No media detection, bad standards, unreliable.... yechhh
<ogra> and i guess we'll get a bunch of users that have more recent HW that even uses usb floppies
<sbalneav> but, unfortunately, they're still used alot.
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> you'd probably want something like:
<ogra> i think the idea of hving a permanent icon available is fine ... but we should also have the possibility to use usb floppies ...
<sbalneav> ACTION=="add", KERNEL=="sd[a-z] ", SYSFS{bInterfaceSubClass}=="04", SYMLINK+="floppy", RUN+=that bit I sent you.
<sbalneav> You at the sprint?  Talked to pitti at all?
<sbalneav> I haven't heard anything back on the latest iteration of lbmount.
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<sbalneav> So, he's either not looked at it, or I've so completely floored him with my stunning code prowess that I've left him speechless.
<ogra> sbalneav: well, pitti is rather busy, but we'll find some time to talk
<sbalneav> I'm assuming it's the first choice :)
<ogra> i talked to colin though, and he'll look again into the ssh cipher=none stuff but the suggestion came up to rather use xdmcp with kerberos enabled for the people having performance issues
<hkrug1> OK, it probably will work now. Shall I report this as a bug ?
<hkrug1> Thanks for your help!
<sbalneav> :( that makes localdev go away though.  At least the way we did it.  I can put some thought to it.  Jammcq and I had a conversation last night.  I know you're busy with the sprint, I'll send you an email later tonight.  Bottom line: lets park that option until edgy+1/upstream/september ltsp hackathon.
<ogra> hkrug1: how did the file end up that way ?
<sbalneav> It seemed to be that way right from the install.
<sbalneav> I've never seen it before.
<hkrug1> yes it was right after the install
<ogra> sbalneav: well, you cant have everything, as i understood you that ssh cipher stuff is only an issue with very low specced HW ...
<ogra> i wouldnt want the localdev overhead there anyway
<sbalneav> It'd be interesting (if you have time) to re-do the install, keeping careful note of installation prompts and answers, and see if it does it a second time.  If it does, it'd be handy to file a bug, yes.
<sbalneav> Sorry, that last one was for hkrug1 
<hkrug1> there was almost no installation prompt - it was all quite smooth
<hkrug1> ciao and thanks again
<ogra> sbalneav: found the nautilus piece .... its a 5 line patch to supress the eject/unmount item :)
<sbalneav> Oh!
<sbalneav> Cool!
<sbalneav> How about the double-icon piece?
<ogra> thats scheduled for tomorrow
<ogra> it happens with floppies as well btw :)
<ogra> we'll target it together with the "only owner shall see devices" bug :)
<ogra> hmm, actually the nautilus thing turns out to be a two liner only *g*
<ogra> oh, i whish i could use xchat ... irssi is awful ... 
<sbalneav> Why can't you use xchat
<sbalneav> ?
<ogra> but we're K-Lined from here or the port is blocked or something ...
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> That sucks
<ogra> i can only ssh into one of my servers and chat from there
<sbalneav> heh, they let ssh through, but not xchat?
<ogra> ok, BenC is fixing the floppy bug for usb floppies ...
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> dont ask
<sbalneav> OK, I wont :)
<ogra> we're connected via a 2M stadard dsl line and have only one wireless uplink ... took us until this afternoon to get that even working
<ogra> i.e. building a kind of a wireless bridge
<ogra> but it had the advantage that i had to buy the wlan card we needed for that and they had this usb floppy as special offer ;)
<sbalneav> ouch.  Hackfest with no internet access :)
<ogra> well, i dont need to care as ltsp hacker ;) i have my network always with me ;)
<sbalneav> :)
* RichEd is fried for the day ... speak to you tomorrow
<Amaranth> ogra: I have a feeling you're hitting the "more than 3 users from the same IP" problem
<Amaranth> ogra: ask nalioth or seveas to get it removed during the sprint
<Amaranth> oops, my advisor just walked in, back later
<Seveas> ogra, ip address changed again?
<Seveas> ogra, lilo whitelisted the ip from yesterday and earlier today
<Seveas> in fact, seb128 and probably others are still connected on that ip
<ogra> Seveas: no, the port over here seems blocked
<Seveas> ogra, hmm -- connection refused?
<ogra> yep
<Seveas> ogra, oddly enough others can connect -- I forwarded it to lilo
<willvdl> hmmm, never new Ghana had such a strong OSS drive
<Seveas> ogra, could you try to connect to freenode again from the conference site on port 6667 and 8001 -- lilo says it should be working now
<ogra> sbalneav: !!!!!!
<ogra> nautilus done !!
<ogra> Seveas: no go
<ogra> (for 6667)
<ogra> ok, 8001 works
<LaserJock> I use 8001 because of my nice uni port blocking :-)
<Seveas> ogra, could you tell that to others around there with connection problems
<ogra> yep
<Seveas> I'm yelling at lilo already ;)
<ogra> will do, thanks 
<ogra> the connection refused message came way to fast for being the freenode server ... dont yell at him .... i#m prett ysure its blocked here
<willvdl> http://www.csis.org/images/stories/tech/060627_open_source_policies.pdf
<Petaris> ogra: how do I re-disable the root account?
<Burgwork> Petaris, remove the password
<Petaris> Burgwork: ok
<Petaris> and thankd
<Petaris> er, thanks
<Burgwork> Petaris, I believe ubuntu sets it to a ! or something like that, which acts like it is disabled. RootSudo can help you
<Burgwork> !root
<ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
<Petaris> ok
* HedgeMage peeks in
* bddebian pokes HedgeMage in the eye ;-P
<HedgeMage> ack!
* HedgeMage sprays bddebian with Silly String
<crimsun> bah, just give him more python bugs.
* bddebian feels so loved :-)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<LaserJock> hi HedgeMage!
<HedgeMage> okay, dumb DocBook question... I'm rearranging the old Cookbook stuff to fit properly into Handbook... Cookbook has several parts with chapters in them, as does Handbook.  However, in Handbook there are some parts with distinct groups of chapters in them... what do I stick in there to seperate the groups?
<HedgeMage> hi LaserJock !
* HedgeMage hugs LaserJock 
* HedgeMage points LaserJock to her dumb docbook question ^^^^^^^
<LaserJock> sorry, was reading something
<HedgeMage> np
<LaserJock> HedgeMage: you want like Part 1, Part 2, etc.?
<HedgeMage> I already have part 1 and part 2 etc.
<HedgeMage> can I /msg you an example so I don't flood?
<willvdl> Hi folks
<sbalneav> Hello
<HedgeMage> hi willvdl 
<sbalneav> Headin' home
<willvdl> Is there anyone looking specifically at LAMS?
<HedgeMage> LAMS == ?
<willvdl> learning activity management etc.
<willvdl> kinda like Moodle but with more oomph
<HedgeMage> ahh
* HedgeMage is curious what kind of "oomph"
<willvdl> well, it's not just content collaboration but a platform for activity construction/implementation/monitoring etc
<HedgeMage> ahh
<HedgeMage> I'm not aware of something like that, but it could probably be coded :)
<willvdl> more pedagogy etc
<willvdl> I think it is being coded.
* willvdl googles
<willvdl> I know canonical have some dialogue there but haven't had time to sniff anything out yet
<willvdl> http://www.lamsinternational.com/
<Burgwork> willvdl, there is activity management being coded into ubuntu
<Burgwork> it is called pyeducation
<Burgwork> UWN covered it last week
<willvdl> thanks. I'll check
<willvdl> eish, managing bookmarks. taken me over 3 hours
<willvdl> Burgundavia, do you know if there is any cross-pollination with LAMS?
<willvdl> http://3d.aretao.com/?p=93
<willvdl> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/27
<HedgeMage> That's it... I give up on doing anything else productive this afternoon... time to go play with TT
<HedgeMage> see you all later
* willvdl looks at time
<willvdl> almost pumpkin time
<willvdl> g'night
#edubuntu 2006-08-22
<bddebian> Heya
<bddebian> Howdy
<bddebian> Hehe, whoops
<Burgwork> hey bddebian, lots of greetings there
<bddebian> Hi Burgwork
* mhz_off hates lag
<kwak> hi, how can i get admin rights to upload files to edubuntu using winSCP?
<jsgotangco> if your box has openssh server installed, users with ssh rights can upload files via scp to their $home dirs
<kwak> ping goog
<kwak> jstongo: im new to using edubuntu, been using K12LTSP and used root access privileges. I want to add a folder in /opt to be run auto by rc.local. 
<LaserJock> use sudo to get root privileges
<kwak> il try
<kwak> ok i configured screen_01 = startx but i only get grey screen, no login screen. what could be the cause
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what you are doing
<LaserJock> but usually startx doesn't give you a login screen
<LaserJock> gdm is for that
<kwak> so i should put screen_01 = gdm
<kwak> new to edubuntu. been used to k12ltsp for 2 years just switched
<LaserJock> to be honest I don't know
<kwak> great! i really need to have to working as soon as possible. anybody out there can help
<sbalneav> Eveing all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey there laserjock!
<LaserJock> kwak: can you describe what you are trying to do more (i.e. what file you are editing)?
<sbalneav> Good news.  Pitti approved the code I wrote for localdevs, so now lbmount, and ltspfs are in main!
<sbalneav> Whoo hoo
<LaserJock> \o/
* LaserJock does the Edgy LTSP dance
* highvoltage gets another ton of spoofed ogra mail
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<Burgundavia> I have noticed spam that has a picture with the spam and then random strings gleaned from a mailing list, coming to the -owners addy of the mailing lists I help run
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia 
<highvoltage> yeah, the spam I am getting is even more evil, it comes directly into my inbox, using addresses of people I know (such as JaneW or ogra)
<rodarvus> good morning
<Burgundavia> morning RichEd
<Burgundavia> hmm, haven't got them yet
<RichEd> hi Burgundavia ...
* RichEd waves to the others here
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to crash
<Burgundavia> is midnight here
<highvoltage> goodnight Burgundavia 
<highvoltage> mornign rodarvus and RichEd 
<RichEd> I am just popping my head in ... battling some kind of virus ... will probably be man down for most of the day.
<rodarvus> hey highvoltage 
<ogra> highvoltage, worse is that jelkner always answers them
<ogra> and complains the attached file didnt open ...
<Burgundavia> ogra: he is a trusting man
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> mornin ogra
<cbx33> mornin Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey cbx33
<ogra> Burgundavia, a trusting man i told about 10 times that i dont send mails with word files attached :)
<Burgundavia> some people are busy
<Burgundavia> I do actually need to crash, so as much as this is
<Burgundavia> good night all
<cbx33> nn
<cbx33> ogra: I just deleted those emails
<cbx33> I though....ogra _never_ _ever_ emails me personally :p
<ogra> well, as anybody does i guess :)
<cbx33> well as we'd been talking about artwork, I wondered if you'd sent me some artwork pictures......but then I saw the MS crap, and thought better of it !!! :p
<highvoltage> ogra: oh no! that is quite bad! (and very funny :p)
<highvoltage> morning cbx33 and ogra 
<cbx33> ogra did you get a chance to see the scp
<cbx33> mornin highvoltage 
<cbx33> mornin HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi cbx33 
<HedgeMage> just thought I'd pop on for a moment before bed
<HedgeMage> finally got some Edubuntu Handbook work done... hopefully I'll have time to get another chapter or two finished tomorrow
<cbx33> nice one HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> thanks
<HedgeMage> At this point I just want the darn thing published so I can move on to devvy things :)
<cbx33> HedgeMage: hehehe
* HedgeMage is having coding withdrawal
<cbx33> HedgeMage: I know what you mean
<cbx33> I went away for a weekend break WITHOUT A PC ???
<HedgeMage> hey, I was at my folks' place for nearly 2 weeks without internet
<cbx33> HedgeMage: how did you cope
<HedgeMage> oddly enough, I like being in the country enough that I don't miss it until I come back and realize how far behind I am
<cbx33> ogra: I'm looking at the spec, thinking about the plugins implementtation
<highvoltage> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> hi highvoltage, what's up?
<highvoltage> catching up, like always :)
<HedgeMage> heh join the club :)
<HedgeMage> OMG... I think TT may *finally* be asleep
* HedgeMage crosses her fingers
<HedgeMage> it appears he means it this time... I'm off to bed now, too
<highvoltage> ugh. Laser_away's spec has been de-approved again :(
<RichEd> willvdl: you dere bwana ?
<highvoltage> (edubuntu-dynamic-menus)
<highvoltage> hey willvdl 
<RichEd> highvoltage: why have the dynamic menus been de-approved = delay for later release or punted into touch ?
<willvdl> hey folks
<willvdl> sorry, looking at emails. not watching irc
<RichEd> willvdl: meeting on thursday 12:00-1:00 pm - Marc Schmidt - Clive's new IT director
<RichEd> okay with you ?
<willvdl> excellent
<RichEd> 12:00-12:30 will probably be him & me, with you joining at 12:30-1:00
<willvdl> take it Abrie called back? 
<RichEd> and then you & I can do 1:00-2:00
<RichEd> no Lynette ... check you email for details of her new job secondment
<highvoltage> RichEd: check the whiteboard: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<willvdl> hmmm, RichEd, I'm suprised my web queries did not point me there
<RichEd> nepad info is disconected by design ;)
<RichEd> hi orga ...
<RichEd> ogra even :P
<RichEd> (not to confuse our geman coder with a misspelt great white shark)
<willvdl> orca's are whales...
<RichEd> meant to say killer whale ... brain fuzzed today ... as you can see in a major way from the evidence above
<RichEd> highvoltage: i checked out the link, but don't see de-approved status : uds-paris (Accepted) ? am i missing something ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: Definition:  Discussion  (Needs guidance) 
<highvoltage> RichEd: that was "Approved" before
<RichEd> ahhhhhh ...
<RichEd> It may fit well with a project that has just been approved (EU funding) ... so I will keep an eye on it.
<willvdl> ooh ooh, core 2 duo has arrived
<cbx33> RichEd: has the SCP one beenapproved now?
<RichEd> cbx33: SCP ? sorry virus ravaged brain is not decoding acronyms today ...
<cbx33> student control panel
<RichEd> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/student-control-panel-completion : Definition:  Pending Approval  (Needs guidance) 
<cbx33> RichEd: ah ok
<cbx33> I've done a lot of that spec now
<RichEd> highvoltage: this does not work -> gary@imlipinux.co.za <- please adjust your dyslexia filter
<highvoltage> RichEd: lol
<highvoltage> RichEd: I was just about to say "hey, that's what it says on his businesscard" :)
<RichEd> sounds like a new local flavour of fanta !
<jsgotangco> ogra: are you aware your email is spoofed with spam at the moment?
<jsgotangco> doh
<jsgotangco> ogry?
<highvoltage> lol
<jsgotangco> ogra: you email seems to be spoofed lately :/
<highvoltage> ogry is probably an angry ogra
<Petaris> jsgotangco: At least he didn't change it to orgy
<Petaris> lol
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i think he's aware of that (as well as everyone else who is in somebody's OE address book)
<jsgotangco> ive seen him almost naked i wouldn't want to imagine more
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hehe
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: how are you doing?
<ogra> jsgotangco, yes, i noticed the 100s of answers from jelkner that he's not able to open my wordfile i sent ...
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i'm doing ok.
<jsgotangco> bwahaha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: how are you doing?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: ive been pretty busy with a top secret edubuntu project
<jsgotangco> heh
<highvoltage> i'm trying to blog on 'how i am doing', but it's difficult to figure out :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: top secret eh?
<jsgotangco> sure
<highvoltage> when I have something top secret, it's so top secret that I don't even mention that it's top secret ;)
<jsgotangco> yeah but this is the ultimate top secret edubuntu project yet
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: what's with the secrecy? don't want the world to know what you're doing?
<jsgotangco> the beast of the east
<jsgotangco> oh its no big deal really, we're just going to have edubuntu on 5,124 public schools over here
<highvoltage> is that with the indonesian woman you talked about last week?
<jsgotangco> err no
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: cool
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: sounds exciting
<jsgotangco> im flying to sg next month for an IOSN training so for me its pretty much home focused at the moment
<highvoltage> sg?
<jsgotangco> singapore
<highvoltage> aah
<jsgotangco> i havent been much help development-wise lately :(
<jsgotangco> although i'll make sure we get our SoC quiz app in universe in edgy
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: me neither :/
<highvoltage> setting up a new business is no joke, although I think most of the hardest parts are over.
<jsgotangco> i can imagine
<Petaris> Has anyone played with local apps on the ltsp setup?
<Petaris> ok, anyone know of a way to run the flash plugin on 64-bit
<cbx33> yikes I lost all graphical after an xserver-worg-core update
<cbx33> :S
<highvoltage> cbx33: many people did :(
<ogra> just run edgy, that works :P
<Petaris> hrm
<bimberi> !xorgbug
<ubotu> If X is broken after a recent update you can upgrade (i386 - see '/msg ubotu xorgbugfix') or downgrade ('/msg ubotu xorgbugfix-amd64' or '/msg ubotu xorgbugfix-ppc')
<bimberi> cbx33: ^^^^
<gnomefreak> its fixed
<ogra> its already fixed afaik ...
<cbx33> yup
<bimberi> is it propogated?
<cbx33> I just updated
<cbx33> thanks guys
<gnomefreak> the uk servers have it along with the gb but thats all im aware of atm
<cbx33> phew I was worried
<bimberi> k
<Petaris> hrm, when trying to install (via apt) firefox into the ltsp chroot I get the following error: perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C"). Error, do this: mount -t proc none /proc
<cbx33> ogra, you around?
<cbx33> do you have two seconds for little old me?
<ogra> only very partially
<ogra> i'm very busy over here  ...
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll be brief
<cbx33> I've finished the kill/execute
<ogra> yay !
<cbx33> added in a little extra for you to see too ! :p
<cbx33> Message !
<cbx33> you can send a single simple message to a client
<ogra> i'll look at it tomorrow ...
<ogra> should be done with localdev today, then i'll jump on SCP
<cbx33> like "Johnny Get off the pr0n sites"
<ogra> hahaha
<cbx33> and it pops up in a GTK dialog box
<cbx33> I was goign to look at the plugin framework later
<ogra> cool !
<cbx33> so maybe if you have some time later we can chat about it?
<ogra> not today, but tomorrow i'll plan some time for it ...
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> when you look at my branch
<cbx33> I have a portion commented out so that I can test locally
<cbx33> just ignore it
<ogra> thats fine
<cbx33> it's in the function that picks up the usernames from the grepping of the ps
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i modify that too if i test without client attached :)
<cbx33> :)
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> well enjoy I hope I havn't done too bad a job
<cbx33> It's nice and extendable
<cbx33> we'll chat about it tomorrow
<ogra> yup
<ogra> it shall go to main, so it has to pass a review by the security team anyway
<cbx33> I have a number of questions
<cbx33> but as I said they can wait till tomorrow
<cbx33> yes I guessed that
<ogra> did sbalneav show up today ? 
<highvoltage> i think he was here very early in the morning
<cbx33> I havn't seen him today at all
<Yagisan> !seen sbalneav
<ubotu> I last saw sbalneav (n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net) 8h 16m 37s ago, quiting: "Ex-Chat"
<ogra> ah, k
<cbx33> well done highvoltage 
<Yagisan> there you go ;)
<cbx33> hi Yagisan 
<ogra> right, i always forget about the bot
<Yagisan> I wish that bot is in the channels I op on sometimes
<highvoltage> :)
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<willvdl> uncanny
<cbx33> very
<willvdl> it's as if the bot pulled him into existence
<cbx33> almost freaky
<sbalneav> You talkin' to me?
<willvdl> !seen 1 Million Dollars?
<sbalneav> Are you talkin' to me?
<cbx33> sbalneav, no
<cbx33> we're talking about you :p
<willvdl> sbalneav, check the log
<Petaris> What is the best way to be able to use flash player on a 64-bit ltsp server?
<sbalneav> durrr
<sbalneav> How do I do that?  It posted somewhere?
<cbx33> Petaris, I didn't think that flash on 64bit was possible....
* willvdl looks sheepish
<Petaris> cbx33: not nativly
<bimberi> sbalneav: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/  but they're a bit behind usually
<highvoltage> Petaris: i think you have to run it from a 32bit chroot, your best bet might be to ask on #ubuntu
<Petaris> highvoltage: I figured as much
<Petaris> highvoltage: Do you know if local apps are possible on the ltsp clients yet?
<cbx33> Petaris, not yet
<Petaris> hrm
<cbx33> Petaris, I am wishing for that day
<willvdl> njrgh. internet is like a turtle stuck in peanut butter today
<cbx33> it will make edubuntu much more viable here
<Petaris> cbx33: me too
<highvoltage> willvdl: it's just 12plein bandwidth that's like that ;)
<Petaris> its sad that ltsp on edubuntu is so far behind vanilla ltsp
<Petaris> *functionality wise
<Petaris> and yes I know they have very different ways of doing things
<cbx33> indeed they do
<cbx33> we're getting local devices this release :p
<Petaris> yeah, that will be nice
<Petaris> but less useful to me then local apps would be ATM
* Yagisan likes edubuntus ltsp better then vanilla ltsp
<willvdl> highvoltage, I can't even reach apt.hbd
<cbx33> Yagisan, me too
<highvoltage> willvdl: eek
<cbx33> brb
<willvdl> but that must be something else. I should have gigabit to server but still get 1.3ms ping
<highvoltage> they upgraded the lan to gigabit!?
<highvoltage> heh, they just waited for me to leave :)
<willvdl> I'm sitting at JaneW's old desk and the switch is right behind me
<highvoltage> ah
<Petaris> Can Vanilla ltsp chroot be dropped in in place of the edubuntu one?
<highvoltage> more or less
<highvoltage> you can install ltsp.org on edubuntu just like you would on any other distro, but it's unsupported
<Petaris> highvoltage: define unsupported and then tell me what support is there for the current implementation?
<Petaris> sorry, just a bit ticked about no local apps, its going to be hell here in a few days with staff returning
<cbx33> that X bug was big
<cbx33> it's the talk of the channels
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep, local lugs here are also full of it. was a big boo-boo :(
<cbx33> I wouldn't like to be responsible for that boo boo
<Petaris> highvoltage: If I just move the current chroot and drop in the vanilla should it just work?  Or would there be other configuration to be done?
<highvoltage> there would be some small changes
<ogra> cbx33, send candy and beer to rodarvus for fixing it quickly :)
<highvoltage> just off my head, you would probably need to copy the 'vanilla', as you call it, kernels to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
<Petaris> hrm, what about the communication between the client and the server?
<ogra> you need xdmcp enabled in gdm ...
<cbx33> ogra, I'll thank him personally when I see him
<ogra> and its kind of gambling ...
<Petaris> If memory serves edubuntu uses ssh tunnels, I don't remember what ltsp uses
<ogra> i'd rather do a workstation install and use the full ltsp.org 4.2 instead of poking around and mixing up two implementations
<ogra> nobody will be able to give you support for such a mixed setup ... neither ubuntu nor ltsp.org ... 
<Petaris> ogra: Any way to do that without rebuilding the base system?
<ogra> on the other hand i dont see the problem to make local apps work in ubuntus ltsp ...
<ogra> there is an article in the ltsp wiki that should help 
<Petaris> oh?
<Petaris> you have a link?
<ogra> no, you will need to search 
<ogra> i shouldnt even be here and chat ...
<ogra>  nautilus (2.15.92.1-0ubuntu2) edgy; urgency=low
<ogra>  .
<ogra>    * debian/patches/80_suppress_umount_in_ltsp.patch:
<ogra>      - don't list umount or eject actions on ltsp,
<ogra>        patch by Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>
<ogra> yay :)
<ogra>  gnome-vfs2 (2.15.92-0ubuntu2) edgy; urgency=low
<ogra>  .
<ogra>    * The "Make it shiny for ltspfs" release.
<ogra>    * Add debian/patches/22_ignore_inaccessible_volumes.patch:
<ogra>      - libgnomevfs/{gnome-vfs-hal-mounts.c,gnome-vfs-volume-monitor-daemon.c}:
<ogra>        Do not create volumes for mount points which are inaccessible by the
<ogra>        user.
<ogra>      - Closes: LP#50554
<ogra>    * Add debian/patches/23_ignore_ltspfs_volumes.patch: Ignore ltspfs mounts
<ogra>      since the current ltspfs implementation creates associated bind mounts to
<ogra>      /media. This prevents generating two volumes for the same mount.
<ogra> double yay
<ogra> :))
<cbx33> w00t waty to go ogra 
<cbx33> ogra will we need the GPL/GNU license at the top of the scp code?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: you there ?
<jsgotangco> yes
<RichEd> heard of these guys : Axis Global - Philippines ?
<jsgotangco> hmm yes
<jsgotangco> big OEM
<bddebian> Morning
<bddebian> Hello jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey bddebian
<cbx33> ping pygi 
<cbx33> got a sec?
<pygi> cbx33, not really, sorry :(
<cbx33> ok np
<gotama> Hello There!
<highvoltage> hi gotama 
<ogra> Accepted ltspfsd 0.2-0ubuntu1 (source)
<ogra> :))))
<gotama> I setup two pcs (sever an client) to install over the network, every thing is fine.
<gotama> But how can I use my CD on the server machine?
<gotama> Going through the internet is too slow. Help please.
<highvoltage> you want to play the cd on the server and hear it on the client?
<gotama> I want to use the cd on the server to install edubuntu in the second machine.
<gotama> The second pc doesn't have cdrom.
<gotama> The installer program ask for the mirror.
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuViaNetBoot
<gotama> I want it use my CD on the server.
<gotama> Thanks boys. I'm going to take a good look to EdubuntuViaNetBoot.
<juliux> ogra, we have a booth for edubuntu on the linuxworldexpo in cologne
<ogra> cool
<ogra> when is it ? 
<juliux> 14-17.11
<juliux> 14-16.11
<ogra> hmm ...
<ogra> thats likely the date of the next ubuntu conf
<juliux> hehe always the same
<highvoltage> ogra: on the edubuntu forums, can you remember if it was decided that the forums should integrate with ubuntuforums, or whether it should be in the drupal site?
<highvoltage> (sorry, I know you should chat)
<Petaris> cbx33: Have you done anything with local apps or the fat client spec?
<ogra> Petaris, thats postponed to edgy+1 until we have proper auth meachanisms
<ogra> (fat clients)
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont remember, but there must be a meeting log
<pygi> highvoltage, hello, how's k3b? :)
<Petaris> ogra: I was just wondering if he had played with it himself?
<highvoltage> pygi: working well!
<pygi> highvoltage, with libburn? good, good :)
<highvoltage> Petaris: I've implemented fat clients for digital doorway (http://www.digitaldoorway.co.za)
<highvoltage> but it's insecure on an open network (/home is exported via nfs)
<Petaris> right
<highvoltage> and the passwd and shadow and group files are stored in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc,
<highvoltage> with symlinks from there to /etc
<Petaris> I'm haveing trouble figuring out how to start the app on the client locally
<highvoltage> it's not too much hard work to get that working on edubuntu, but also, it's unsupported, and upgrades will break.
<cbx33> Petaris, no
<Petaris> highvoltage: I am less interested in fat clients then I am in just a couple of local apps
<Petaris> ogra mentioned a doc in the wiki on local apps but I have been unable to find it
<cbx33> Petaris, it'll be good when it happens
<cbx33> but I'm gona wait till it's don properly by da man :p
<Petaris> cbx33: I saw in the meeting notes from a while back that you asked about it
<cbx33> I did
<cbx33> I wondered if it was a spec for edgy
<Petaris> so I wasn't sure if you were working on it or not
<cbx33> meee !!!!
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I'm not that clever
<Petaris> hrm
<cbx33> sorry bud
<cbx33> i know thereis a wiki document
<cbx33> hang onI'll try and find it
<Petaris> local apps wouldn't be nessessary here if flash were avaliable for x86_64
<cbx33> ah i see
<Petaris> I found the fat client wiki, but I'm assuming thats not it
<cbx33> hence why I don;t use 64bit just yet
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I can't find it
<cbx33> there was one
<cbx33> think it's been deleted
<Petaris> I wish adobe would release a ner version that has that support
<Petaris> x86_64 isn't exactly new
<cbx33> no I know, but....
<cbx33> not a lot we can do about it atm
<Petaris> boycot adobe  :)
<ogra> Petaris, there is a debian doc how to run firefox in a 32bit chroot on amd64 machines ... 
<ogra> its nothing you need local apps for at all
<Petaris> ogra: I don't suppose you have a link to that?
<ogra> if i look that up now, local devices wont happen today ... which will delay me even more
<ogra> its somewhere on alioth.debian.org
<Petaris> ok, I'll look there
<Petaris> cbx33: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=160318&highlight=32-bit+chroot
<cbx33> Petaris, too much like hard work
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I'll stick with i386 for now
<cbx33> !!! hehehe
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hehehe - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cbx33> sorry ubotu 
<Petaris> cbx33: just thought you might find it interesting
<cbx33> indeed I did
<cbx33> I'll probably try it out 
<cbx33> on my machine at work
<cbx33> as it is 64 bit, and I need flash sometimes
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> what was the command to regenerate the ssh-keys for the clients?
<Petaris> was it just ltsp ssh-keygen
<ogra> in case anyone wants to test:
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-August/004260.html
<ogra> (in edgy only indeed)
<ogra> :D
<ogra> lucasvo, ^^^
<lucasvo> ogra: apt-get install ltspfs?
<ogra> lucasvo, get that version of ltsp
<ogra> sudo apt-get install ltspfs on the server
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ apt-get install ltspfsd
<ogra> for the client
<lucasvo> ltsp-server is already the newest version.
<ogra> i havent added a echo "fuse" >> /etc/modules to the postinst script yet 
<ogra> so you need to do that manually
<ogra> and the user needs to be in the fuse group
<lucasvo> which user?
<ogra> the user that uses localdev
<ogra> which other user would i mean :)
<lucasvo> I don't know, maybe an ltsp user?
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> what other user would use thin client devices ;)
* ogra just listens to music from his usbdisk via an usb headset with rhythmbox, both attached to a thin client 
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> oooh 
<cbx33> you showoff ogra
<ogra> hehe
<cbx33> ogra I wanted to as ka quick SCP related question
<cbx33> well not just SCP
<cbx33> teachers...ie people who are goign to use SCP, I dn;t know about you, but me being an administrator of a school system
<ogra> they shut down the net and lock the room in 2 min
<cbx33> I don;t want them having sudo access
<cbx33> you know our ACL lets root send to the system bus for SCP
<cbx33> what about having a %admin% group
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> which teachers could be a part of
<ogra> we have the admin group ;)
<cbx33> instead of using sudo
<ogra> that wont work
<cbx33> why?
<cbx33> just curious
<ogra> the admin group is what gives you sudo
<cbx33> oh
<ogra> see /etc/sudoers :)
<cbx33> what abotu a teaacher group?#
<ogra> no
<ogra> make SCP run as a special user like willow
<ogra> bye
<cbx33> b-y-e? :S
* cbx33 doesnt understand and spontaneously combusts
<lucasvo> ok, it's not working on first attempt
<Petaris> cool, I have flash workign
<Petaris> er, working
<cbx33> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> where did ogra go
<Petaris> what was the command to regenerate the ssh-keys for the clients?
<Petaris> I thought it was something like ltsp-update ssh-keys
<Petaris> ahh, nevermind
<Petaris> ltsp-update-sshkeys
* willvdl wonders why the alsa drivers require libncurses
<willvdl> ah, alsamixer. course
<crimsun> that's not the drivers; that's alsa-utils.
<crimsun> heh, I just scrambled to check whether I had made a packaging error. I was fairly certain there was nothing that built against or depended on libncurses5{-dev,}
<crimsun> $ apt-cache depends alsa-base alsa-source linux-sound-base |grep ncurs 
<crimsun> $ 
<cbx33> Hi Amaranth 
<Amaranth> hey
<Amaranth> just got internet turned back on at my house
<cbx33> woohooo
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> 300 unread emails :/
<Amaranth> i just checked them yesterday when i was at the library
<Petaris> bugger, I just found out were going to be about 650,000 US in the whole this year
<Petaris> I wonder if they are going to cut staff
<Petaris> at the very least I bet my budget dissappears
<cbx33> Petaris, how much is your budget a year
<willvdl> crimsun :)
<willvdl> sound issues on ALC883
<Petaris> cbx33: 10k US
<cbx33> how many people?
<Petaris> about 100 staff and 635 students
<Petaris> 200 workstations
<Petaris> *including the two 25 client ltsp labs
<cbx33> that is a tiny budget
<Petaris> yeah
<Petaris> but its usually one of the first things to get chopped
<cbx33> mine is about $16000 this year
<crimsun> willvdl: sorry, I have no idea what "sound issues on ALC883" refers to (missing context entirely)
<cbx33> last year we had $400,000 :D a kind of grant
<willvdl> crimsun, my alsa comment was worse. 
<Petaris> cbx33: nice
<Petaris> cbx33: What type of org do you work for?
<cbx33> I work for a secondary school in the UK
<Petaris> ahh
<crimsun> willvdl: I really have no idea what you mean. Are you implying you're having issues in Ubuntu [Warty? Hoary? Breezy? Dapper? Edgy?]  with the HDA Realtek 883 codec?
<willvdl> crimsun, yeah, sorry was typing too slow
<crimsun> willvdl: Which Ubuntu release? Are you running the latest errata kernel (2.6.15-26.46)? What sort of issues?
<willvdl> 2.6.15-26-686 
<willvdl> trying to patch the alsa drivers with an Acer patch
<crimsun> which acer patch in particular?
<LaserJock> hmmm, I wonder if it is bed time in Germany
<crimsun> it's getting fairly late at night. Are you referring to o gra's bedtime (is there one?) or other people's?
<willvdl> hmm, lost it
* willvdl scratches head
<LaserJock> crimsun: all the disto sprint people seem to be gone
<LaserJock> oliver, rodrigo,  richard
<crimsun> they're probably all getting smashed. I certainly would be.
<Burgwork> rodrigo is probably drinking away the pain of breaking so many people's computers :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> poor guy
<Burgwork> given he is not an X guy, I feel sorry for him
<Burgwork> but given we almost lost Luis Villa, I don't
<LaserJock> I'm feeling like -updates and the point release did not work very succesfully
<LaserJock> we put out this LTS release, and then we have a ton of updates some of which break previously working packages
<Burgwork> updates has, this X issue was one
<Burgwork> the point release works
<Burgwork> this X is the only piece I have seen that breaks anything
<LaserJock> I've heard people say that they had issues with the point release
<LaserJock> ah, well lower scale stuff
<LaserJock> doko uploaded a completely uninstabllable matplotlib
<LaserJock> to universe -update
<LaserJock> caused some problems
<crimsun> I know of a Via patch that hasn't been merged into linux-source-2.6.15 yet, too
<LaserJock> and then didn't care to fix the package
<crimsun> people will continue to howl, but that's just the price we pay as volunteers
<LaserJock> people wondered why it was called LTS if it needs so many updates and they updates aren't very well tested
<crimsun> to be fair, it wasn't well tested upstream, either
<LaserJock> what wasn't the via patch?
<crimsun> the X server one
<LaserJock> ah
<crimsun> heck, I think there were only -two- confirmations
<LaserJock> well, it seems like a problem to me when -updates decreases the stability of the release
<LaserJock> I guess it's something mdz, et al. have to worry about
<LaserJock> :-)
<willvdl> ah, found it: https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=2378
<LaserJock> but uploading packages you haven't even test installed seem a little ...
<crimsun> willvdl: so you need acer-alc883-fix2.diff?
<willvdl> trying that one now
<crimsun> willvdl: will you pastebin your ``lspci -nv'' output so I can confirm it's relevant to you?
<willvdl> snd- modules are howling in dmesg
<willvdl> eish, internet v slow...
<willvdl> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21424
<crimsun> willvdl: yep, was just discussing that in #alsa about an hour ago
<willvdl> worth checking logs?
<crimsun> not really, I just need to sanity-check that patch
<crimsun> the pci_subdevice id looks suspicious
<crimsun> (not yours but in the patch)
<willvdl> set to zero
<crimsun> yes, that's probably meant to mask off anything, which would be incorrect
<willvdl> yet some claim success. I suspect my problem is elsewhere
<crimsun> well your sub{vendor,device} ids match, so it probably _does_ work, but I need to make sure the id isn't a snafu
<willvdl> hmm, no luck with either patch
<crimsun> you should only need the second
<crimsun> did you unload all the alsa modules then load the fixed ones?
<willvdl> yip. dmesg comes alive
<crimsun> what syntax?
<willvdl> sorry, missing you here?
<crimsun> what commands did you use to unload and reload the sound drivers?
<willvdl> modprobe -r
<willvdl> modprobe snd-hda-intel model=acer
<crimsun> hopefully not ``modprobe -r'' by itself?
<willvdl> no :) removed all the snd- mods
<crimsun> you shouldn't have needed to pass the model parameter at all
<willvdl> tried without too
<willvdl> angon, didn't "actually" unload the modules cause of the dependencies...
<crimsun> you need to be very thorough, because I'm not willing to patch the kernel with a bogus patch.
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure this pci_subdevice is completely wrong
<crimsun> 0x0000 does _not_ match 0x0102
<willvdl> darn, can't force module removal.
<crimsun> please force the specific subdevice model
<crimsun> i.e., change:
<crimsun> { .pci_subvendor = 0x1025, .pci_subdevice = 0/*0x0102*/,
<crimsun> to:
<crimsun> { .pci_subvendor = 0x1025, .pci_subdevice = 0x0102,
<willvdl> in the patch no doubt
<crimsun> in the source
<Petaris> Hi mhz
<mhz> Petaris: hi there
<willvdl> should I configure with sequencer?
<ggeller> Is there a way to tell which version of the Edubuntu 6.06 install disk I have?
<crimsun> willvdl: that's orthogonal to your speaker working.
<ggeller> My install is failing at the "building LTSP Chroot" step, similar to what was described in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2006-March/001152.html
<willvdl> ggeller, the reference speaks of prior 6.06 release
<ggeller> OK.  Any idea why my install would get to that step then die with just a black screen?  I happened twice in a row.
<willvdl> hmm, happened to me once. are you wanting to build a server?
<ggeller> I didn't ask for a server, just the standard install.
<willvdl> have you tried a workstation install?
<ggeller> I guess not.  I told it what partition to use on my hd.  Maybe I need to look at the pre-partitioning options more carefully.
<ggeller> I just selected "Install to hard disk" as the first step.  This time I'm doing "Install a workstation".
<willvdl> unless of course you want a thin-client server :)
<ggeller> It seems to be working now.  Thanks for the help.
<pygi> highvoltage, poke?
<Burgwork> pygi, how goes it?
<pygi> Burgwork, great, what about you? :)
<Burgwork> not bad
<pygi> fighting with libburn & friends :)
#edubuntu 2006-08-23
<HedgeMage> hi Burgwork 
<pygi> HedgeMage, !!!
<HedgeMage> hi pygi :)
<Burgwork> hey HedgeMage 
<HedgeMage> What's up?
<Burgwork> not much
<Ilusion> HI. :)
<Ilusion> looks crowded in here... 
<Ilusion> anyone up for answering inanae n00b questions?
<Ilusion> Hello?
<Ilusion> :)
* Ilusion is stumped with edubuntu cross architechture LTSP setup...
<Ilusion> :(
<Ilusion> Anyone? Buhler?
<Burgwork> Ilusion, what is your issue>?
<Ilusion> follwoing instructions here:
<Ilusion> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup
<Ilusion> get to the point where I try to mount the /opt/ltsp from the live cd booted machine
<Ilusion> command:
<Ilusion> sudo mount <yourserverip>:/opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp
<Ilusion> I get ""mount point /opt/ltsp does not exist"
<Ilusion> I can ping the server and there are only 2 machines on that hub, so I know the server is up and ok...
<Burgwork> you need to run the live cd on a client
<Ilusion> did that
<Ilusion> :)
<jsgotangco> good morning
<Burgwork> you also need to install the ltsp on the live cd
<Burgwork> "Install the ltsp-server package on the liveCD "
<Ilusion> ah.. more misinterpretation from me then.. I assumed the text meant the next example line would perform that task...
<Burgwork> no, it would not
<Burgwork> you can edit the text to be better, however
<Ilusion> I think I may do that as there have been two areas on that howto that stumped me.. this being the second...
<Ilusion> is the ltsp somthing I can install using hmmm whats the command... ap-get or somthing like that?
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> ltsp-server is a package name
<Ilusion> is the syntax in that doc somewhere?
<Burgwork> search for it in synaptic
<Ilusion> synaptic?
<Burgwork> or run apt-get install ltsp-server on the command line
* Ilusion is big linux n00b.. sorry for inane q's....
<Burgwork> no worries
<Burgwork> the goal of Edubuntu is to be make it easy for non-techy teachers to be able to instlal it
<Ilusion> thats sorta me.. i just have the "wrong" tech background... 15-20 years of novell/windows... :)
* Burgwork has just proven that you need no actual Edubuntu skills to help people out, as he has never installed Edubuntu
<Ilusion> woo! that worked.. its getting the package...
<Ilusion> i had to use sudo beforre apt-get though.. (im making notes so i can update that page... :)
<Burgwork> yep
<Ilusion> last install i did was slakware in 1996... :)
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco 
<Burgwork> hey jsgotangco 
<Ilusion> of linux that is..
<jsgotangco> hi
<Ilusion> done a few novell suse installs, but those dont count ;)
<Burgwork> ideally, apt shoudl undertsand arches, so that you could say "apt-get install i386:ltsp-server'
<Ilusion> nutz. i didnt set a pri-dns in my dhcp so my client cant find the archive. can i set a pri dns using like ipconfig?
<Burgwork> edit /etc/resolv.conf directly
<Ilusion> ok, i got resolv.conf up in nano, I added nameserver <ip address of my pri dns> and saved it... 
<Ilusion> but i cant resolv my name server domain...?
<Ilusion> is the syntax like a hosts file?
<Ilusion> i.e. <name> tab <IP>?
<Burgwork> nameserver IP
<Ilusion> hmmm i did that...
<Ilusion> looks like maybe the default gateway isnt setup in dhcp either... dangit...
<Ilusion> ok, i just fixed the errors in the dhcp, is their a "ipconfig -renew" type command?
<Ilusion> to force the client to renew its IP address via dhcp?
<Ilusion> nvrmind.. found i could do this with the GUI tool... 
<Ilusion> :)
<Ilusion> ok, back to apt-getting now... :)
<Ilusion> cool! it mounted and its building the clinet.. hmm in the doc it says to take a coffe break, as it will take a long time.. since my client is an old k6450 with 128m of ram.. i think i"m gunna go home and let it run over night. Thank you for your help!! :)
<bddebian> Howdy
<kwak> hi, how do i refresh ltsp setup?
<sbalneav> Refresh as in update the packages?
<sbalneav> You can respond either here, or #ltsp :)
<kwak> anybody knows how to install flash player, adobe acrobat, and java?
<gnomefreak> kwak: is it 32 bit ubuntu?
<kwak> yes
<gnomefreak> kwak: enable multiverse and universe repos and than sudo apt-get update than sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree sun-java5-jre and i cant remember acroread i think is the package
<kwak> sorry newbie in ubuntu. how do i enable multiverse and universe?
<kwak> repos
<gnomefreak> !repos
<ubotu> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and !easysource
<kwak> oic. il try it and check also the docs
<kwak> thanks ubotu
<kwak> i've heard the the another version of edubuntu will come out in two months. im using 6.06, will i be able to upgrade it without wiping the disk?
<gnomefreak> kwak: yes
<kwak> ok good. i got hit failed in updating repos. 
<kwak> it's not block on my content filter. 
<kwak> but still failing.
<kwak> i got this message as well
<kwak> E: couldn't find package...
<kwak> well, i already enabled all repos, and reload successful, but when i apt-get install, can't find the plugin. i also look for a guide in google and found one. but still cannot find the file. what could be wrong.
<Burgundavia> kwak: what areyo u looking for?
<Burgundavia> flashplugin-nonfree
<kwak> yes
<kwak> i tried to issue this command
<kwak> sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
<kwak> im here
<sbalneav> ok, how did you add the repo?
<sbalneav> do this:
<kwak> i used software properties and synaptic
<sbalneav> click on system->administration->Software Properties
<kwak> yes did that.
<sbalneav> Well, you didn't do it right, or it would have worked :)
<sbalneav> So follow along with me...
<kwak> i even checked everythingk
<sbalneav> What does the top one say:
<kwak> sorry
<kwak> wrong message
<kwak> ok i will follow
<sbalneav> Should say: Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (binary)
<kwak> in the installation media?
<sbalneav> Correct
<kwak> yes it is ubuntu 6.06
<kwak> then
<sbalneav> Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Binary)?
<kwak> yes
<sbalneav> ok, read what it says underneatth
<kwak> ok. now i got it. i should click edit and check multiverse.
<kwak> :)
<sbalneav> if you've got it right, it should say 4 items:
<sbalneav> Officially supported
<sbalneav> Restricted copyright
<sbalneav> Community Maintained (Universe)
<sbalneav> Non-free (multiverse)
<sbalneav> Then it should work.
<sbalneav> Lots of people in #ubuntu will try to get you to edit the file by hand...
<sbalneav> They're smoking crack.  Use the tool: it's much easier, and less error prone.
<kwak> hehehe
<kwak> yeah. but i don't ind command
<kwak> line
<kwak> have class. thanks sbalneav
<sbalneav> np
<kwak> 7 students are using now. is teachertool installed in edubuntu?
<sbalneav> That I don't know.
<LaserJock> I sure wish ogra was on :(
<kwak> hi again sbalneav: do you know how to disable the shutdown button from client workstation.
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> that one's a bug
<sbalneav> ummm
<sbalneav> hold on...
<sbalneav> It's something you set in the gconf editor, but I can't quite find it
<sbalneav> still googleing
<kwak> i will try google also.
<kwak> somebody shutdown the server then i it does't bott anymore
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> Umm, are you subscribed to the edubuntu mailing list?
<kwak> not yet.
<sbalneav> I'll look it up, and post something there tommorrow.
<kwak> well it's working again after reboot
<sbalneav> It's fixed in the next version already.
<sbalneav> it's just a case of looking up what the fix is.
<sbalneav> Search the edubuntu mailing list archives.
<sbalneav> I think it's been covered already.
<LaserJock> I believe so, although I can't remember the fix either
<kwak> k
<magnon> Burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> magnon: pong
<magnon> Does ubuntu have some support/service manager now?
<Burgundavia> yes, support is lead by Jeff Bailey
<Burgundavia> out of montreal
<Burgundavia> hey rodarvus
<magnon> so he's very much asleep now then :P
<Burgundavia> magnon: very much so, yes
<rodarvus> good morning
<magnon> anyone in europe on that team?
<rodarvus> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> magnon: no, the entire support team is in montreal
<Burgundavia> however, they report to Jane
<magnon> l2go worldwide :P
<Burgundavia> jane will be waking up and at work in about 2 hrs, I expect
<magnon> sounds good :)
<Burgundavia> night
<jsgotangco> hey rodarvus
<rodarvus> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hows things?
<magnon> morning ogra :)
<ogra> hey magnon ! :)
<magnon> glorious morning!
<magnon> btw, does anyone know of a mac terminal thas sucks less than Terminall.app?
<magnon> -l
<willvdl> ola
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> brb
<kwak> anybody uses edubuntu for 25 clients? i want to know the performance. I noticed that the response is a little slow.
<ogra> kwak, try turning the clients to 16bit colors, that speeds up a lot ... we default to 24bit currently (will change in the edgy release)
<kwak> ogra: how do i do that? and when is the edgy release?
<ogra> edgy is released in october
<ogra> you create a file called: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<ogra> put in the following two lines:
<ogra> [default] 
<ogra> X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<ogra> then reboot the clients :)
<RichEd> hi kwak - are you Edwardson Pedragosa from my inbox ?
<kwak> yes
<RichEd> hi ogra 
<ogra> morning
<kwak> hi RichEd.
<RichEd> please (as a kind note) reailise that I am not the best person to mail with your individual user queries :)
<kwak> i did a first test of my edubuntu server this morning.
<kwak> np
<RichEd> you will get better & faster reponses here in the channel ...
<RichEd> i will also give you the mail lists in a sec ... those go to me and a bunch of other people, including the community ... who may be awake while others are sleeping
<RichEd> how's the server ? look good ?
<kwak> doing fine. i just experienced locked up this morning. The client clicked the hibernate button.
<cbx33> Mr OG !!
<cbx33> you got some time for your old buddy cbx33 to talk about SCP? :p
<jsgotangco> hey you
<jsgotangco> bribe him with wine
<cbx33> ogra: can we get hibernate taken off the shutdown menu?
<cbx33> RichEd: any news on the "pack" stff?
<cbx33> sorry guys I know I'm being incredibly verbal today, but I may not be able to make the meeting, so I'm trying to get sorted all I can now
<cbx33> hi jsgotangco how are you
<cbx33> brb - 5
<jsgotangco> pretty good i had a haricut and bought stuff for myself
<RichEd> kwak: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<RichEd> kwak: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<RichEd> hs jsgotangco hi cbx33 
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd how's the day
<RichEd> cbx33: yep ... Will is taking the lead ... he digs organising information as a passion of his :)
<RichEd> so you can expect a proj plan around case studies & info packs to emerge, probably by tomorrow afternoon.
<kwak> RichEd: thanks, i just joined that mailing list this morning
<willvdl> we can chat about case studies in the meeting. need to feel out some opinions
<RichEd> jsgotangco: bit wobbly ... still shaking off a head virus that was fighting with me yesterday ... thanks for asking
<cbx33> willvdl: Hi
<cbx33> oh not again
<cbx33> ....grrr
<cbx33> I hate working support
<kwak> how the question earlier: removing hibernate buttong?
<kwak> button?
<cbx33> heheh
<RichEd> hi will ... we'll discuss in theedubuntu meeting today and again 1-2-1- tomorrow after NEPAD
<willvdl> excellent
* cbx33 is hoping he can get to some of the meeting
<cbx33> Lisa has to go to hospital today so I have to leave work early
<RichEd> i need to do 1 year and 3 year plan for education ... all divisions have a task due 31 august ... i'll need your help with that
<cbx33> the new minutes are up
<RichEd> so we will have a big section on: targetted documentation & info for various audiences
<cbx33> RichEd: w00t
<cbx33> I hope ESA will help out there
<jsgotangco> RichEd: the GILAS project only aims internet access so I guess we're a good sell here
<willvdl> cool. I'm uploading my planned activities around Africa in general to the wiki today
<RichEd> cbx33: hope it is not serious ? 
<cbx33> RichEd: nope
<cbx33> thankfully
<RichEd> jsgotangco: yep, i've done the reading and cleared my understanding. will offer directed help, not tangential :)
<jsgotangco> reduced cost of deployement because the platform is free is a good motivator
<cbx33> bbiab guys
<cbx33> currently network cabling in one room
<cbx33> then running back here to speak to you guys
<cbx33> :p
<willvdl> http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/06/ubuntu_linux_a_threat_to_mac_o.html
<willvdl> from ubuntu-marketing
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<pygi> morning highvoltage 
<highvoltage> morning pygi 
<cbx33> mornin highvoltage 
* pygi is looking into libisofs rewrite today :-/
<highvoltage> mornin' cbx33 
<highvoltage> how are you all today?
<pygi> highvoltage, good, good, will get libisofs rewrite today probably :)
<pygi> what about you?
<highvoltage> going good, we're preparing for a big meeting we're having with 120 schools tomorrow
<pygi_> <pygi> highvoltage, good, good, will get libisofs rewrite today probably :)
<pygi_> <pygi> what about you?
<highvoltage> 10:11 <@highvoltage> going good, we're preparing for a big meeting we're having with 120 schools tomorrow
<highvoltage> :p
<pygi_> highvoltage, oh, nice :)
<RichEd> ogra : just checking if you will be attending the meeing today ? I'm presuming not
<RichEd> highvoltage: good luck for the meeting 
<pygi_> RichEd, you've got another mail
<RichEd> pygi_: will check in a few mins ...
<pygi_> oki
<highvoltage> RichEd: thanks
<ogra> RichEd, thats totally depending on connectivity over here ... my laptop is up and down ... but i'll try to attend
<ogra> btw, sabayon works on ltsp with the recent version, even with xnest ;)
<ogra> (got it running here currently)
<RichEd> ogra: i'm getting traffic crawl & disconnects & lookup failures my side as well ... problems not confined to your pipe today :)
<ogra> well, for me its surely the line here :) our setup is a bit crappy and under heavy load
<cbx33> ogra: when do you think you'l have time for me and SCP? just asking so I can plan my day, I'll probably be unavailable from about 12 - 7 UTC
<cbx33> so I can either sqeeze it in now
<cbx33> or later in the evening?
<cbx33> if any of those times are good for you?
<RichEd> pygi_: I've already been giving it some thought ... will mail or pvt you soon ...
<cbx33> brb
<pygi_> RichEd, thanks
<RichEd> ping pygi_
<RichEd> question on "public/private information" : Is the info that Ubuntu is being tested on HPC (High Performance Comuting) boxes public domain ? Can a comunity member delivering an Ubuntu presentation at a University in Hungary next month mention this as a high level comment. No specific vendor mention, just that is an area we are being called into ?
<jsgotangco> we do have kernels tuned for such and the server team are doing other platforms suited for HPC
<jsgotangco> as for sites we know, i cannot say
<willvdl> RichEd, are we UTC+1 or +2? keep forgetting...
<RichEd> willvdl: UTC = GMT for all intents & purposes as South Africans
<RichEd> UTC stays as is ... GMT shifts when daylight savings becomes involved ... that's how I have it in my brain ... we have no daylight savings here so equivalent to me
<willvdl> yeah but I can never remember when daylight savings turns on
<willvdl> http://www.timeanddate.com/ <- they have a meeting planner
<RichEd> willvdl: go into #ubuntu-meeting meet me there
<RichEd> i'll show you some tricks ogra taught me
<rodarvus> I've just noticed we have Edubuntu meeting in one hour from now
<rodarvus> ogra and I have another meeting in one hour
<ogra> do we ?
<rodarvus> unless we just chose not to attend it :)
<highvoltage> rodarvus: that is not an option!
<highvoltage> :)
<rodarvus> highvoltage, right ;)
<ogra> lunchtime !
<pygi> highvoltage, you shall soon drop mkisofs :)
<highvoltage> pygi: really? can libburn make bootable cd's without mkisofs?
<pygi> highvoltage, libisofs....but it doesn't support eltorito yet...I know how to do basic implementation tho (without multiple boot entries)
<pygi> soon we'll have entire rewrite ready -- from 5k lines to 3k lines..and new implementation has new features :)
<pips1> hi all
<highvoltage> hi pips1 
<lucasvo> ogra: how many times do I have to tell you?
<lucasvo> ogra: why the heck am I subscribed to the same ML twice?
<pips1> hey lucasvo
<pygi> lucasvo, calm down pls :)
<lucasvo> pygi: well, I asked about 4 times...
<lucasvo> pygi: and its crap to get them twice
<highvoltage> lucasvo: I get everything thrice
<lucasvo> pips1: got to go now... I'll be back and answer in query in half an hour
<pips1> highvoltage hehe
<pips1> lucasvo oki
<ogra> lucasvo, i told you 4 times now that we just copied the users from -devel t -users, if you dont want to be on one of them please usubscribe ...
<ogra> :)
<pygi> lol
<RichEd> ------ edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ---- 1 minute ----
<RichEd> ------ edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ---- now ----
<lucasvo> pygi, ogra: And I told you a hunderd times that I am subscribed to edubuntu-users TWICE
<lucasvo> and once to edubuntu-dev
<lucasvo> I only need the -users once
<ogra> lucasvo, how should that work ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't know
<ogra> i only noticed that your mails come in twice if you send them 
<lucasvo> ogra: but I know I get them twice
<ogra> but mailman doesnt allow one address to be subscribed more than once to one list by design
<lucasvo> yeah
<lucasvo> is there a majordomo?
<pips1> back here
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: the biggest notable difference i could find in edgy was gaim2
<highvoltage> it's a *huge* improvement on the gaim in dapper.
<jsgotangco> really
<highvoltage> yep
<willvdl> highvoltage, does it handle irc better?
<jsgotangco> hopefully this doesn't get borked
<jsgotangco> i have no machines at the moment except this laptop
<highvoltage> willvdl: i normally use irssi for IRC, I didn't like IRC on Gaim previously, irssi just works well, so I stick to it
<highvoltage> irssi also works in screen, which is a big ++
<jsgotangco> yeah
<willvdl> ah. tarted off using gaim for irc until I realised I couldn't do pvt msg's
<jsgotangco> really? im pretty sure you can
<highvoltage> you can
<willvdl> could receive them but couldn't send
<highvoltage> yes you can :)
<jsgotangco> double click on the nick you want to send a pvt?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage-gaim: show off
<highvoltage-gaim> heh
<willvdl> :P
<pips1> Has anyone ever seen hauntedpalace, toxictoadz, ulinskie in #edubuntu?
<highvoltage-gaim> i have seen toxictoads in #edubuntu only once
<jsgotangco> ulinskie has been very busy at her work lately
<willvdl> !seen hauntedpalace
<highvoltage> at least, I have :)
<ubotu> I haven't seen hauntedpalace recently
<pips1> (they are all listed in LP as members of edubuntu-website)
<pips1> I am just trying to get an idea of who might be available to help :-)
<pips1> jsgotangco: so you know ulinskie..
* pips1 reads LP page
<pips1> https://launchpad.net/people/loco-philippine-team wow!
<highvoltage> pips1: that team needs some major re-form, really. all of them expressed interest to help
<highvoltage> pips1: they just need some management and co-ordination
<highvoltage> pips1: there are many people who would like to help, who doesn't really participate in IRC
<pips1> yeah, let's get them going :-)
<jsgotangco> pips1: ive met her a few times already
<jsgotangco> pips1: you will find her attractive
<pips1> I would like to know who works for a school, or currently study in school...
<jsgotangco> she does
<pips1> ah, good to know
<pips1> isn't there a plugin for firefox that opens all links from a page as separate tags?
<pips1> s/tags/tabs
<pips1> ach, I meant ff extension, not plugin, of course
* pips1 is browsing addons.mozilla.org
<willvdl> interesting, edubuntu installs on my new machine, but ubuntu  hangs on uncompressing the kernel
<sbalneav> Morning all!!
<pluto_> night for me
<willvdl> ola
<sbalneav> ogra: pingity
<pluto_> hey does  anybody have problems capturing audi from mic?
<pluto_> *audio
<willvdl> what hardware?
<DanielC> Hello everyone. I'm having a problem that is a bit hard to reproduce. If I boot up several (~5) clients right at the same time they all fail when trying to mount /opt/ltsp/i386.
<DanielC> If I boot up any one client (or two) they boot up fine.
<sbalneav> DanielC: Do you get a message like: "Waiting for NFS?"
<DanielC> The error is "mount: PRC: Timed out; mount: nfsmount failed: Bad file descriptor"
<DanielC> RPC
<DanielC> "RPC timeout" is similar to "waiting for NFS", right?
<sbalneav> what do you have for networking hardware?  10 base T?  100 base T?  Switch or hub?
<DanielC> Uhmm.... dunno.
<DanielC> The cards are old.
<DanielC> So 10 base is a safe bet.
<DanielC> Switch most likely.
<sbalneav> I'm willing to bet it's a hub
<DanielC> Hmm...
<sbalneav> You see that sort of thing on a hub: the clients start dropping packets, and it usually shows up as NFS timeouts.
<DanielC> I see.
<sbalneav> 5 clients booting at exactly the same time will generate a lot of traffic.
<sbalneav> if you don't have a switch in place to moderate the traffic, you'll get a ton of collisions.
<DanielC> And the room should be able to boot 20 clients at the same time.
<DanielC> If we have a switch, but all the cards are old and 10-base, would that cause the same problem?
<sbalneav> then you'll definitely want to make sure you've got a switch.
<sbalneav> No, shouldn't.  The machines will be slower, but they should function.
<sbalneav> And if they've got 10 meg cards, it's unlikely they have a switch. :)
<DanielC> Well, we're reusing the old computers but I *think* we installed the switch or hub ourselves.
<DanielC> I'll go ask the other people and see what we have.
<DanielC> Thanks for the help!
<sbalneav> No problem.
<crimsun> willvdl: (btw, the patch for your speaker problem was submitted yesterday [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2006-August/001033.html] )
<willvdl> sweet.
<willvdl> for the record, running on travelmate 4220 series (4222WLMi)
<pips1> lucasvo: ping
<mhz> RichEd: hi there
<mhz> hi all
<pips1> hi mhz
<mhz> pips1: hi
<pips1> how are things in Chile?
<mhz> pips1: well, in Chile, regarding Education?
<mhz> or in general
<mhz> ?
<pips1> in general
<jsgotangco> how's the moin scene in chile :P
<mhz> jsgotangco: hey! you piece of hacker! :D
<mhz> pips1: in general, interesting scenarios in economics, social, and politics
<mhz> in education, Students are still forcing the Gov. to make serious modifications to education sys
<mhz> jsgotangco: still smoking, drinking, and monitoring mobile porn?
<jsgotangco> shhhhh
<jsgotangco> oh i will probably escape the shackles of the mobile porn industry soonish
<mhz> hehehehe
<ogra> sbalneav, pong
<mhz> ogra: hi there
<mhz> ogra: do we get any Marketing/Stand Edubuntu material shipped with CD's upong 'special-request' ?
<pips1> mhz: that would be nice indeed :-)
<mhz> I know we could apply to stickers and some few tshirts for LoCo's
<mhz> and panflets
<mhz> or leaflets
<pips1> mhz, oh right, there are student protests
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> in Chile? yes
<pips1> are they still going on? in santiago, or in other places too?
<mhz> Santiago and regions
<mhz> lastime, protests lasted about 3 weeks
<mhz> no stdudents going to school for long time, it is not good
<pips1> valparaiso
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> mhz, thats a RichEd question ...
<mhz> ogra: okis, thx
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey!   How's the sprint!  Saw the update on the xnest bug!  rodarvus need any help with the nbd stuff, or is there something else I can kick in on?
<bddebian> Hello
<mhz> ping RichEd 
<willvdl> mhz, I think he's feeling a bit ill
<mhz> oops
<mhz> willvdl: thx
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
* willvdl listens to the sad sound of his new core 2 duo overheating
<ogra> that makes a sound ? 
<willvdl> does in XP
<LaserJock> ogra: hi!
<ogra> hey
<willvdl> course if it reallllly overheats then it makes an oozing sound
<LaserJock> ogra: I wanted to ask about edubuntu-dynamic-menus
<LaserJock> is it dropped for Edgy completely?
<ogra> yes, unless you implement it before sept 7th 
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wanted to do a mockup this week
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if I can make it very functional before the 7th
<LaserJock> a question I had was if we wanted to us /etc/group for user->group mappings or use a seperate tool
<LaserJock> s/tool/file/
* mhz prefers /etc/group but... he's a face in the crowd ;)
<ogra> me too
<ogra> /etc/group already has a GUI ;) 
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> although it might be a little odd to seperate out menu groups from other groups
<ogra> i just used it to add local device support for ltsp users as well ... by switching on/off the fuse group
<LaserJock> I figured the easiest thing to do initially would be install some .menu files and create some groups
<mhz> oh, true too
<LaserJock> and then figure out a way to get the .menu files to the users
<LaserJock> either somehow setting XDG_DATA_DIR or by having a update-tool that would drop the menu files in each ~/
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> and would that work for e.g. 200 users ?
<LaserJock> I would hope so
<LaserJock> that's what we need to test
<mhz> what kind of env. would it be ideal to test it?
<mhz> I mean, can we emulate 200 users ?
<LaserJock> hehe, an LTSP school lab
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I can always create a bunch of users on my machine
<mhz> yeah, i thought you'd say something like that
<mhz> me too
<LaserJock> probably not 200
<mhz> hmm, I can test it on a cibercafe with 10 clients ;)
<ogra> LaserJock, is there no way to not touch ~/ ?
<ogra> we should urgently avoid touching it if any possible
<LaserJock> that's what alacarte does
<LaserJock> that's why I was thinking of it
<LaserJock> but I can look in the sabayon code and see how they do it
<sbalneav> ogra: OK, leave the mods to ltspinfod to me.
<sbalneav> I'll do that tonight.
<ogra> LaserJock, ignore sabayon, look what xdg offers there 
<LaserJock> well, we still need to set XDG_DATA_DIR on a per user basis
<LaserJock> maybe kiosktool would shed some light on that
<LaserJock> I'd like to keep it simple
<ogra> right
<LaserJock> the thing is, as far as I can see, nobody thinks about this sort of thing
<ogra> thast why i thin a /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/<group> dir added to the system default would be the right way
<ogra> and then just drop per group .menu files in there  
<Burgwork> LaserJock, sabayon drops a complete profile in a .zip file
<LaserJock> Burgwork: over the user's ~/ ?
<ogra> and have a tool that starts in /etc/X11/Xsession.d that sets the variables right on a per group base
<Burgwork> no, wherever you ant
<LaserJock> k
<Burgwork> LaserJock, talk with whiprush, he uses sabayon extensively
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, but how do I get that tool in. That seems like a pretty invasive change?
<Burgwork> building default sabayon profiles also allows end users to edit them via sabayon
<Burgwork> rather than have to hack up our own tool
<LaserJock> yeah, but sabayon is pretty much a no-go IMO because you cannot have a user belong to more than one profile
<Burgwork> no, you can't
<ogra> LaserJock, not 1% as invasive as touching all users homedirs
<LaserJock> XDG has some mergeing built in
<Burgwork> right
<Ilusion> might I trouble you folks with a query or two? :)
<LaserJock> ogra: true :-)
<LaserJock> grrr, I sure wish edgy wouldn't mess up all my mounting
<LaserJock> I booted this morning and now I have no /home
<Ilusion> I installed a edubuntu amd64 iso on my amd64 3500 machine... I then tried to PXE boot the my 800mhz WS's and they complain they are not amd64s.. So I got pointed here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup and followed those instructions, the system still complained about not be amd 64.. 
<Ilusion> so, I got advice on the mailing list to do this: just do the following:  sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64 sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386  after the setup finished you have a running environment for i386 clients 
<Ilusion> i did that, now the ws's get a DHCP address and then stop with "no os" at all :(
<ogra> urgh
<ogra> these instrctions are only for incompatible CPU versions 
<ogra> like powerpc clients on intel or amd64 servers
<Ilusion> ok, so about the second advice...
<Ilusion> "sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64 sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 "
<Ilusion> that appeared to work, but its not giving it out to the ws's
<ogra> that wont work
<Ilusion> nutz
<ogra> these are two commands
<ogra> you cant issue them in one line
<ogra>  sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386
<Petaris> I just wrote a mass user creation script if anyone is interested
<Ilusion> ah.. i know that.. i issued them on two lines as two commands... they worked individually
<ogra> ok
<Ilusion> i now have an /opt/ltsp/i386 folder
<ogra> does /opt/ltsp/i386 exist and have a system in it ? 
<ogra> ok
<LaserJock> ok, how about this:
<ogra> are you on dapper (6.06) ?
<Ilusion> yep (6.06 AMD iso)
<LaserJock> 1) create groups in /etc/group
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> try that command
<LaserJock> 2) install .menus in /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/<group>
<ogra> and then try to boot a client again
<ogra> LaserJock, sounds good so far
<LaserJock> 3) place script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/  that check what groups a user belongs to and checks if any of those groups are in /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/<group>
<LaserJock> and then sets XDG_DATA_DIR accordingly
<ogra> yep
<Ilusion> did the sudo ltsp-update-kernels.. it seems to work (no discerabler errors produced) and then retried PXE booting the WS, still gets IP via dhcp then times out asking for OS..
* Petaris notes the script (as it is) is only usefull if you use generic users ie, elem1, elem2, ...
<Ilusion> cr@p. "worK" calling me... Be right back! :)
<Petaris> but you can specify the basename, the starting number, the total to create, and the password
<LaserJock> ogra: ok, should I rewrite the spec? I think that we can do that before sept. 7th.
<ogra> you can rewrite the spac afterwards ;)
<ogra> *spec
<LaserJock> heh, ok
<LaserJock> I have a much clearer idea of what to do
<ajayc> RichEd: ping
<mhz> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19980118
<mhz> lol
<Petaris> mhz: hahaha
<mhz> yup, just loved it
<ggeller> My Edubuntu 6.06.1 install konked out in the middle.  Is there a way to restart it?
<ggeller> Ctrl-Alt-F2 doesn't bring up another console.  I just see a black screen.
<cbx33> ping the pygi_ 
<mhz_off> bye all
<mhz_off> RichEd: please email me when you could be ok to meet on IRC
<cbx33> hey mr ogra 
<cbx33> I have 10 minutes before my sister comes to visit
<cbx33> anychace you could squeeze me in?
<kendrick> hello!
<kendrick> i'm lead developer of Tux Paint. someone emailed me today saying they were trying to install Tux Paint on a PPC Edubuntu install, and it claimed that Tux Paint isn't available for it...
<kendrick> it's actually more confusing than that, he said it /installed/, but when he went to /launch/ it, it complained:
<kendrick> "It went fine, all installed, but Tux Paint claims that it isn't available for that platform when I try to launch it."
<kendrick> i've got _Ku_buntu on an _Intel_, so i really have no idea what he's talking about.  can someone here give me a hand? :)
<Ilusion> Hi kendrick! I can't help with the issue you describe but I wantedto say THANK YOU for tux paint! It is a wonderful program! :)
<kendrick> :)  you're welcome!
<kendrick> is there some kind of package list for edubuntu? (similar to packages.debian.org?)
* Ilusion is a n00b.. trying to get edubuntu LTSP to work.. not very luky so far
<kendrick> i know for a fact that tux paint works on PPC ebcaus one of the developers uses it :)
<Ilusion> 4 months of linux experience after 15 yrs of netware/windows...
<kendrick> feels good, huh? ;)
<Ilusion> so i'm just a leech here.. :)
<Petaris> kendrick: I would help you debug but no ppc here
<kendrick> not that i ever spent 15yrs doing windows, but... i can imagine *shudder*
<kendrick> Petaris: heh
<sbalneav> Ilusion: What problem are you having?
<Ilusion> kendrick - look here to see the classroom I'm supporting..
<Ilusion> http://www.notepad.org/jackies/
<Ilusion> all of those have tux paint :)
<kendrick> awesome :)
<Ilusion> sbalneav- TIA :) Ok, heres the saga:
<Petaris> tux paint is really popular at the elementary  school here
<kendrick> :D
<Petaris> tux typing would be too if it didn't suck resources like a blackhole
<kendrick> i thought they were working on that :)
<kendrick> Petaris: was this ltsp?
<Petaris> yep
<Petaris> I think they are working on it, but I don't know that the problem has been solved yet
<Ilusion>  I installed a edubuntu amd64 iso on my amd64 3500 machine... I then tried to PXE boot the my 800mhz WS's and they complain they are not amd64s.. So I got pointed here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup and followed those instructions, the system still complained about not be amd 64.. 
<Ilusion> so, I got advice on the mailing list to do this: just do the following:  sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64 sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386  after the setup finished you have a running environment for i386 clients 
<Ilusion>  did that, now the ws's get a DHCP address and then stop with "no os" at all :(
<Petaris> Ilusion: sometimes you have to run ltsp-build-client a quite a few times to get it to actually finish and not just error out
* Petaris notes that this is just _his_ experiance with it
<Petaris> I run dual opteron servers here
<Ilusion> when i ran ltsp-build-client, i didnt see any obvious error messages... it appeared to finish cleanly..?
<Petaris> hrm
<Ilusion> how would I check?
<Petaris> did you restart
<sbalneav> I've never done a cross platform install before...
<Ilusion> heh... <old windows guy> of *course*! ;)
<Petaris> at the very least restart tftpd
<Petaris> hrm
<sbalneav> My immediate suggestion would be: install edubuntu on a ia32 platform, grab the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir, and rsync/scp it over to the x64 box
<kendrick> heh
<Petaris> ogra: I noticed that some clients are still booting to tty1 instead of tty7
<Petaris> *on dapper
<Petaris> kendrick: I would just nix the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir and run ltsp-build-client again
<Ilusion> so sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386 then build again?
<kendrick> Petaris: Ilusion, you mean. :)
<Petaris> oh, yeah
<Petaris> Ilusion: yep
<Petaris> isn't it -Rf though?
* Petaris looks
<Petaris> oh, its either
<Ilusion> the weird thing is that the PXE station is getting an IP via DHCP, but its not getting offered the boot image...
<kendrick> ok, well, i told the fellow who asked about Tux Paint on PPC that Edubuntu _claims_ it's "in universe, for all three platforms", so i dunno wtf is going on :^/
<kendrick> hopefully he can find someone in the edubuntu community who can help him. worst case, he can install from source. :)
<kendrick> thanks and take it easy!
<Ilusion> thanks again for your program ! :)
<Petaris> later kendrick 
<kendrick> you're welcome! enjoy! :) :)
<pygi> highvoltage, poke, poke, good news!
<Burgwork> pygi, good news?
<Burgwork> hey th1a 
<pygi> Burgwork, yes, cdrskin (libburn-on-cdrecord layer) now 99% supports audio burning
<pygi> we just have some rough edges
<Burgwork> does that replace cdrecord?
* pygi nods :)
<Burgwork> the newly CDDL cdrecord
<pygi> eh, not in that way :)
<Burgwork> I was referring to the actual thing
<pygi> well, cdrskin provides syntax same as cdrecord
<pygi> meaning, you can use cdrskin to work with k3b without cdrecord :)
<Burgwork> cool
<Burgwork> what are other distros doing about the cdrecord issue?
<Burgwork> it strikes me that it would make sense to have a common thing
<pygi> well, everybody thinking about libburn & frontends (cdrskin && genisofs)
<sbalneav> Excuse my ignorance, but what is "the cdrecord issue"?
<pygi> Burgwork, ubuntu isn't using cdrskin :)
<pygi> sbalneav, most distros dropping cdrecord
<sbalneav> Oh?  Howcome?
<pygi> sbalneav, licence issues and "Joerg" issues
<sbalneav> Ah.  I've heard rumours he can be a bit of a bear.
<Burgwork> he recently changed the build system to cddl
<pygi> schilly makefileystem :P
<pygi> Burgwork, I know I've got a lot of mails about libburn ^_^
<Burgwork> yep
<pygi> Burgwork, you wanna burn cd's without cdrecord? I would be grateful :)
<Petaris> anyone know if there is an IRC channel for PAM anywhere?
<Petaris> more specifically for pam_mount
<sbalneav> Heading home for the day.
<sbalneav> Be on later tonight.
<cbx33> ping pygi 
#edubuntu 2006-08-24
<bddebian> Howdy
<jsgotangco> hi!
<bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> wahooo!!!
<bddebian> ??
<LaserJock> I can set menus!
<bddebian> Ah
<LaserJock> hmmm, but I can only give it one menu at a time
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> \o/
<LaserJock> well, I can manually create dynamic menus :-)
<mhz> LaserJock: really?
<mhz> how?
<LaserJock> well, I set up a couple .menus
<mhz> oh, i see
<LaserJock> then I create a file per user that merges the ones I want
<mhz> so, teacher decides which .menu to use?
<mhz> or load for students?
<LaserJock> the teacher will use /etc/groups
* mhz trying to understand then
<LaserJock> Then I use a script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ to set XDG_CONFIG_DIR by user
<LaserJock> I just need to work on all the automation
<mhz> ooooh
<mhz> get it now
<mhz> LaserJock: but.... IIRC, you dont encourage the use of command line interfaces :D
<LaserJock> so when a student logs in the XDG_CONFIG_DIR is set to /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/<user>
<mhz> nice
<LaserJock> which contains a .menu file that merges the .menu files from the groups that they belong to
<mhz> LaserJock: I like the idea
<LaserJock> so all the teacher should need to do is add the student to the chemistry group
<LaserJock> and then perhaps run an "update menus" script that produces all the user .menu files
<LaserJock> and then it should just work
<LaserJock> the problem is that you can only set .menu per user
<LaserJock> so I need to do the merging in that one .menu
<LaserJock> I had wanted to do it by just giving XDG_CONFIG_DIR multiple dirs
<LaserJock> but it just picks the first applications.menu it finds :/
<mhz> hmmm
* Yagisan waves to LaserJock and mhz 
* mhz waves back to Yagisan, the Mr. Security Man
<LaserJock> hi Yagisan 
<mhz> Yagisan: unfortunately, i am on my way off now :(
<Yagisan> oh. no matter, I'll catch up with you later then mhz 
<mhz> Yagisan: best regards and whishes to you and your family
<mhz> bye all
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> evening bddebian
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<RichEd> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 4h 21m 4s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<jsgotangco> hey
<RichEd> greetz jsgotangco : how are you in mind & body today ?
<jsgotangco> pretty boring day
* RichEd does a quick song & dance accompanied by the sounds of african drums in the background
<jsgotangco> heh not doing much all day lately
<RichEd> hi will
<willvdl> hi RichEd
<RichEd> willvdl:  you beat me to it :)
<RichEd> hi 
<willvdl> uploaded some stuff on homepage at canonical wiki
<RichEd> thanks ... will check now ...
<willvdl> mainly marketing stuff
<willvdl> hmmm, lost yesterdays mail when my new PC broke down
<willvdl> what time am I meeting with you again today?
<RichEd> ping willvdl : msg window ...
<willvdl> using 3g card so have to be in windows currently...no /msg
<RichEd> HP chap : Clive's new IT head 12:00-12:30 general intro with me 
<RichEd> Clive's new IT head 12:30-1:00 NEPAD eschools with me & you
<RichEd> you & me for another hour after that
<willvdl> got it. thanks. see in about an hour
<DanielC> Hello. Some times my clients boot into a graphical login, and some times into a tty. I haven't managed to find a clear pattern.
<DanielC> It's not something consistent. The same machine will do one or the other at seemingly random times.
<DanielC> I doubt that it's a driver problem, since you can press Ctrl+Alt+F7 and get the GUI.
<DanielC> But that is something that would freak out many elementary school teachers.
<cbx33> what is LAMS all about
<magnon> awww this is so cute
<magnon> I just heard from the IT lead on a school I worked with who had a little kid come and tell him about how he asked his mom if her computer could run ubuntu, and she didn't understand what it was, and he was so sad because he couldn't have it
<magnon> /W 2
<cbx33> awwww
<cbx33> magnon: that's a shame
<magnon> but still very cute :)
<DanielC> magnon: Give him an Ubuntu LiveCD.
<DanielC> magnon: His mom can manage that.
<DanielC> Seriously, schools that have Ubuntu installed should have a stack of CDs to give out.
<DanielC> magnon: Is giving him a LiveCD an option?
<DanielC> You'll get a family to hear about Ubuntu and they'll tell their friends.
<acersales> hi i am typing a 'clear' command on the console and gettting the error 'terminal is not a console'
<DanielC> that's weird.
<acersales> i know but any way to reset reconfigure something ? 
<DanielC> sorry, no idea.
<acersales> ok 
<acersales> any idea guyz ? 
<gnomefreak> acersales: what terminal are you using?
<acersales> gnome terminal
<gnomefreak> dapper?
<acersales> yes
<gnomefreak> 2.14.2?
<acersales> u mean the kernel ? 
<gnomefreak> no the version of gnome-term
<acersales> how to check ? 
<gnomefreak> apt-cache policy gnome-terminal
<gnomefreak> or help>about
<acersales> yes it is 2.14.2
<gnomefreak> k hold ona  sec i have someone running it for me
<acersales> do you think it will help to reconfigure ? 
<acersales> if i do it as root it works ? 
<acersales> what can be the problem / 
<acersales> ?
<gnomefreak> you can try
<acersales> ok thanks
<gnomefreak> acersales: try reinstalling it by running sudo apt-get install --reinstall gnome-terminal
<acersales> ok 
<gnomefreak> acersales: can you run echo TERM in terminal
<acersales> now i am reinstalling it 
<gnomefreak> Seveas: oh hell your in here
<Seveas> gnomefreak, ?
<gnomefreak> looks like it should be echo $TERM
<gnomefreak> Seveas: acersales is having the issue
<gnomefreak> i just left dapper to hopfully fix my nvidia issues
<Seveas> acersales, dpkg -l gnome-terminal | cat
<acersales> yah then ? 
<acersales> that reinstall doesnt work gnomefreak 
<Seveas> acersales, what's the output of the command I gave?
<gnomefreak> acersales: run the command Seveas gave you
<acersales> should i paste it here ? 
<acersales> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
<acersales> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
<acersales> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
<acersales> ||/ Name           Version         Description
<acersales> +++-==============-===============-============================================
<acersales> ii  gnome-terminal 2.14.2-0ubuntu1 The GNOME 2 terminal emulator application
<acersales> it is working fine with the root user 
<gnomefreak> acersales: su or sudo?
<acersales> only 'clear' command does work with normal user
<acersales> works fine
<Seveas> acersales, eh? You just said it didn't work...
<acersales> with the user doesnt work 
<acersales> with the root it works
<acersales> when i do su 
<Seveas> <acersales> only 'clear' command does work with normal user
<acersales> goes in as root
<acersales> t work
<acersales> yes you are right
<Seveas> thn what doesn't work?!?
<acersales> only clear command is the problem
<Seveas> ok, you alternate between saying it doesn't work and it does work... make up your mind and be clear about what fails please...
<acersales> ok i type again 
<acersales> only from my user side i cannot use command 'clear' it gives the error 'terminal is not the console'
<acersales> from root i can use this command normaly
<Seveas> is clear aliased to clear_console perhaps?
<acersales> yes
<acersales> i did again and still the same error
<Seveas> why have you aliased clear to clear_console?
<Seveas> you shouldn't do that
<acersales> aliased means creal symbolic link ? 
<Seveas> clear_console indeed behaves like this (and it should)
<acersales> aliased means create symbolic link ? 
<Seveas> acersales: what's the output of this command: which clear 
<acersales>  terminal is not a console
<Seveas> ...
<Seveas> acersales: what's the output of this command: which clear 
<acersales> no output i deleted clear command now from the /usr/bin
<acersales> :D
<Seveas> ...
<acersales> because just now i messed with clear and clear_console :(
<acersales> anyway to bring it back ? 
<Seveas> sigh, I give up on this...
<acersales> thanks no problem 
<acersales> >:D< i will try to bring it back :
<acersales> takecare bye
<Yagisan> anyone here set up a fresh dapper install with apt-cacher ?
<DanielC> Can anyone imagine why a client might boot into the GUI some times and other times go to a tty?
<Yagisan> DanielC, no, but when it does ctrl+f7 shows the GUI
<DanielC> yes, it does.
<Yagisan> DanielC, it annoys me too, as it happens at random :(
<DanielC> I just fear that this would give a very bad impression.
<DanielC> Ok, so it happens to you too...
<Yagisan> DanielC, it's been happening since breezy. I counldn't narrow down the cause, and I don't think ogra did either
<Yagisan> DanielC, but I've not tried edgy yet so it may well be fixed
<DanielC> Well, if we don't know the cause, I wouldn't expect it fixed :)
<DanielC> Well, thanks for the help!
<DanielC> At least I know not to waste a lot of time on this.
<Yagisan> np DanielC 
<ogra> cbx33, whats up with SCP ? i just merged your changes ... there is no startup script in the dbus dir and it seems the conf file isnt installed either ....
<ogra> (its kinda odd, mark just wanted to look at it ...)
<ogra> also what are scp-server, scp-client and non-root-scp-client ?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ok hang on
<cbx33> i'll fix up 
<cbx33> gimme 10 mins
<cbx33> ogra, ~I forgot to copy the ACL to my bzr repo
<cbx33> I'll do that now
<ogra> take your time ... he's gone to the next project now (time is very short here due to the X desaster)
<cbx33> bugger
<cbx33> sorry dude
<cbx33> I thought you'd have one for some reason
<ogra> dont worry ... i'll try to catch him later again and revert to my versin for now so he can at least see how it looks like :)
<ogra> copying the acl wont help, the dbus files are not in place
<cbx33> which dbus files?
<ogra> the service must be started ...
<cbx33> oh restarted you mean
<ogra> to listen  on the system bus 
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> no 
<ogra> not restarted 
<ogra> the service must be installed in /etc/dbus-1/event.d
<ogra> and i dont see the code in the student-control-panel binary thats using it ... but i might not look close enugh
<cbx33> ogra, I did n't add a file to event.d
<cbx33> there is one for hal
<ogra> hal ???
<cbx33> but it worked without
<cbx33> ok my bzr repo now has the student-control.conf file to be palced in the system.d folder in dbus
<cbx33> then you just need to run non-root-scp-client on the listenting machine
<ogra> to make a namespace properly available to dbus it needs to be in the event.d directory with a sequence number in the name
<cbx33> ok that wasn't present in the tutorial I read
<cbx33> but I will create one of those
<cbx33> but, it does "work" so you can see it in action
<ogra> thats why i said to look at willowng and just copy it from there
<ogra> its doing the right thing
<cbx33> I did, but at the time I didn;t understand willowng
<cbx33> so I got it from the dbus homepage
<cbx33> I will go back and do that...my apologies
<cbx33> scp-server and scp-client can be ignored.....they are now removed from the repo
<ogra> you only need a /etc/dbus-1/event.d/60StudentControlPanel and add the management code (that sends the messages to the student-control-panel binary )
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll cerate one now
<ogra> s/messages/messages)/
<cbx33> gimme like 10 mins
<cbx33> thoguht I shoudl be done in 5
<cbx33> ogra, I'm confused
<cbx33> this event.d file
<cbx33> is fine if there is a central service/server 
<cbx33> like willowng
<cbx33> but we don't have one
<ogra> we should have one 
<cbx33> we have SCP
<cbx33> and the listeners
<ogra> just copy whats done in willowng
<ogra> treat the student-control-panel binary like willowng-config
<ogra> s/listeners/listener/, right ?
<cbx33> well a listener for each user
<cbx33> who is logged in
<ogra> right ...
<ogra> started by Xsession.d
<cbx33> ogra, do you remember when we had our discussion a while ago and I said there was SCP, a server part, and a listener
<cbx33> and you said we don't have a server part
<ogra> no server part
<cbx33> so I scrapped it
<ogra> exactly 
<cbx33> so what is it that the dbus init is meant to start
<ogra> you need a service on dbus indeed so dbus is aware of the namespace and the ACL can apply
<ogra> thats the part that gets started from event.d
<cbx33> I havn't written one of those
<cbx33> the service
<cbx33> but the ACL's still work fine
<ogra> the ACL and definition is in the .conf file in system.d
<cbx33> what would this service do
<ogra> like willowng does it
<cbx33> ogra, yes it is
<cbx33> I have done that too
<cbx33> but....I'm sorry for being thick here, I can;t see what the "service" actually does
<ogra> well, how would the ACL work if you dont apply it to dbus via a service you install in event.d ?
<cbx33> ;) I dunno but it works
<cbx33> the name space is setup
<ogra> but not corryctly
<cbx33> there are more conf files in the system.d but they don;t have event.d files either
<ogra> just copy willowng
<Cadet> hi
<Cadet> has anyone got a copy of the ubuntu font ?
<cbx33> ogra, gnome-power-manager, bluez, and notification-daemon all have ACL's
<cbx33> in system.d
<cbx33> but do not have service files in event.d
<cbx33> only hal does
<ogra> /etc/dbus-1/system.d/student-control-panel.conf <- ACL
<cbx33> are you saying they are wrong?
<ogra> /etc/dbus-1/event.d/60StudentControlPanel <- namespace listener for dbus
<ogra> .../XSession.d/XY-SCP <- client 
<ogra> and code in SCP itself that sends the messages
<ogra> thats the structure we need
<cbx33> I totally see all of that
<cbx33> I understand what yo uare saying
<ogra> thats good :)
<cbx33> but what does that namespace listener do? - I has no function
<ogra> how else would you make dbus use the acl ? 
<ogra> you need something that has root permissions in the backend 
<cbx33> ogra, would you do me a favour and try it?
<ogra> else SCP wouldnt be able to exec anything  
<ogra> oh, no ... wait
<ogra> we dont ...
<cbx33> the listener does
<ogra> the client executes it itself ...
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> sorry, i'm confusing myself here ... we all had a short night ...
<cbx33> sorry ogra, I wasn't clear
<cbx33> I'm not that great at explaining what I mean sometimes
<ogra> no, i was confused :)
<ogra> we dont need the event.d stuff ...
<cbx33> phew
<cbx33> ok guys
<cbx33> oo-bun-to or You-bun-to
<cbx33> :?
<cbx33> hi JanisLee 
<cbx33> whoops
<cbx33> jsgotangco, 
<ogra_> ubuntu :)
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> ogra_, very funny
<cbx33> ogra_, did it work now?
<cbx33> ogra, did you get my mail ?
<StephenL> I'm trying to get Xorg to accept remote connections.  No matter what I try, -nolisten tcp gets set somewhere.
<StephenL> What do I need to change to disable that option?
<ogra> a) you shouldnt do that, its horribly unsafe (you can take screenshots from sniffed traffic, and read passwords in plain text)
<ogra> b) you *can* eable xdmcp support in gdm
<ogra> just use gdmsetup for that ... but note that our ltsp implementation doesnt support it for security reasons
<StephenL> so how can I get thin clients to connect if it isn't listening
<StephenL> ?
<ogra> ubuntu ltsp uses ssh
<ogra> did you follow the gettingstarted guide from the channel topic
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> who broke that 
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | Read before installing: http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
<bddebian> Hello
<ogra> (the last link)
<ogra> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Hi ogra
<StephenL> ogra: yes, I have read that but I'm not doing a network or pxe boot.
<ogra> well, ldm (our login manager) wont wor on normal systems ...
<ogra> *work
<StephenL> I'm trying to connect with a neoware thin client.  It supports xdm.
<StephenL> Do you know what I need to enable without using dgmsetup.  I'm ssh'd to server so dgmsetup won't work.
<ogra> and there is no way to netboot with that ? 
<StephenL> yes, there is but I can't throw another dhcp server in here. I would have to run it on an alternate port and that's a pita.
<ogra> there is a section in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom for xdmcp
<ogra> add:
<ogra> Enable=true
<ogra> below 
<StephenL> I added that to the [xdmcp]  sectioin
<StephenL> It still starts X with --nolisten tcp
<ogra> that should suffice ... did you restart gdm ? 
<StephenL> yes and even rebooted
<ogra>  --nolisten tcp shouldnt have any influence on xdmcp ...
<ogra> thats only for stuff like xhost
<StephenL> oh
<StephenL> hmmm, still won't connect.
<StephenL> I work for a school district and we are going to test replacing windows boxes in labs with these thin clients booting to edubuntu.
<StephenL> The problem is I can't change the dhcp servers.
<ogra> can yu make up a separate network ? 
<ogra> so the server has two interfaces, one is a client ot the existing dhcp and the other one serves the thin clients on a physically parted net ? 
<StephenL> Yes, that's a possibility.  But I would need a dhcp server in each lab.  Doing it like this I can have I server and have the clients connect to it from wherever.  I can configure these thin clients to connect automatically on startup to the server  so they don't have to network boot.
<ogra> o way to get them netbooting at all ? 
<StephenL> No, not really.
<cbx33> ogra, SCP ok now?
<ogra> bzr pull doesnt revela anything new
<ogra> *reveal
<cbx33> are you puling from LP
<ogra> ah, right, that doesnt mirror that often
<ogra> so lets see how the package looks now
<StephenL> Is there a logfile that I can look at to see why the client can't connect?
* ogra pbuilds
<cbx33> I havn't done the pacakge yet
<cbx33> :S
<ogra> ah, then it cant work indeed
<DrkLrd> RichEd, ping
<RichEd> hi DrkLrd ...
<RichEd> hi others : cbx33 ogra 
<DrkLrd> RichEd, yes yes finally i gave the presentation and they LOVED it!!!
<cbx33> hi RichEd 
<DrkLrd> they agreed to have it on a few PC;s
* RichEd pats DrkLrd  on the back ... well done !
<DrkLrd> thanks RichEd 
<DrkLrd> now i go to a regional level expo
<DrkLrd> and there i get a Projector too
<DrkLrd> :)
<RichEd> three cheers ... hip hip horay !
<ogra> cbx33, whats self.smess ? 
<ogra> it chokes on that
<cbx33> :S was fine when I ran it
<cbx33> lemme check
<RichEd> cbx33: Will has started the planning for brochures ... it's on a Canonical wiki page ... i'll mail you it in HTML
<ogra> cbx33, ah, right you redid tha glade file
<ogra> *the
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> well, I had to add the message
<cbx33> it may be that I add that as a plugin
<cbx33> to test the framework and provide an example
<ogra> noisy errors on the console
<RichEd> cbx33: sent ...
<ogra> please use # for comments in the future ... ctrl+v in vi is handy here ... so i can easier see where you commented out stuff
<cbx33> ok sorry ogra 
<cbx33> ogra, oh?
<cbx33> whiat erroes
<ogra> well, john and pete arent logged in ;)
<ogra> so its hard to get their processlist 
<ogra> we need better errorhandling here 
<ogra> if i enable the userlist stuff its fine
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> as I said that was my testing
<ogra> yay
<ogra> a message pops up :)
<DrkLrd> now it time for some serious contribution
<DrkLrd> bugs bugs where are those darn bugs
<cbx33> ogra, are yo ua happy chap?
<jsgotangco> let's try xorg bugs ;)
<ogra> cbx33, totally !
<cbx33> I was thinking for teachers, it may be nice to scrap the command line interface, or have it as an advanced option, and to have icons to start apps on the clients machine
<ogra> cbx33, i want the dialog you get with alt-f2
<ogra> so they can just select from a list ...
<cbx33> yeh
<DrkLrd> jsgotangco, those are some intelligent bugs they run so fast
<cbx33> ok I'm sure we can lift that
<ogra> but its a beautiful proof of concept already
<jsgotangco> ;)
<jsgotangco> scp? yeah it seems to have effectively replaced ogra
<jsgotangco> heh
<DrkLrd> jsgotangco, i got a spray here what u got with u?
* jsgotangco hides from ogra
<ogra> and the dialogs you use should really react on "enter" :)
<jsgotangco> DrkLrd: its been weeks since i last triaged xserver-xorg bugs, but september will be pretty much free for me ;)
<DrkLrd> hmm thats a dynamite ready
<ogra> cbx33, we should drop the status column from the proclist
<ogra> its useless
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> DrkLrd: but triaging bugs for edubuntu means having it fixed for ubuntu as well, or the other way around
<ogra> and i'll look into adding icons for apps that have .desktop files
<cbx33> you like the auto updating list?
<DrkLrd> jsgotangco, true
<ogra> yup :)
<cbx33> so....looking at that, what do you want me to work on next?
<cbx33> has Mark seen it yet?
<ogra> also some procs shouldnt be listed ... we nee an exclusion list  of things like x-session-manager
<cbx33> ogra, yes I thought that too
<cbx33> ogra, did I do ok?
<ogra> totally, thanks a lot 
<ogra> if we get that a bit more in shape, even if it doesnt make the deadline, we'll suggest it for classroom management 
<ogra> the ui needs some small changes ...
<cbx33> ogra, well, as I said what do you want me to work on now?
<ogra> and we need better eror handling ...
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> but in my exp that always comes later :p
<ogra> and indeed it needs to be packaged properly
<cbx33> at least it doesn't fall over now if no one is logged in :p
<cbx33> ogra, but of course
<ogra> yep :)
<cbx33> I closed the two bugs on LP
<ogra> great !
<j^2> hey all
<cbx33> so gimme a lost of what you want me to work on and I'll do it
<j^2> i have a couple questions about edubuntu
<cbx33> did my email make sense ogra 
<cbx33> shoot j^2 
<j^2> i'm trying to create a locked down network, only access to certian websites and maybe internal messaging, is there a pretty easy way to do it?
<j^2> with edubuntu, or should i stick with ubuntu?
<cbx33> ogra, does willowng have a whitelist ?
<ogra> an easy one is only in edgy
<ogra> yes
<ogra> it has
<cbx33> j^2, in edgy it'll sooo easy
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> but its not packaged for dapper (and not 100% finished yet)
<j^2> ahh
<j^2> no worries, i just need to set it up test as a proff of concept
<rkd> ogra, do you know if willowng's content-filtering should work?
<ogra> rkd, i think the bayesian filter part is still buggy .. but wait for Amaranth, he wrote it and can tell you
<rkd> i'm trying to write a kde frontend for it, i've got domain-filtering working, but content-based stuff doesn't work, either in my frontend or the included willowng-config
<rkd> ok, sure
<j^2> also, could i only give access to like only firefox and nothing else?
<cbx33> ogra, this is something that would be cool for us
<cbx33> I was thinking, about this....
<cbx33> at school we have some security software in windows that watchs for windows with a certain title and closes them, and applicatin processes too
<cbx33> could we incorporate into SCP the ability to only allow certain processes to run
<cbx33> or to block those that we don;t want to run
<cbx33> like, we don;t want a kid to browse the web, we add it to the list, 
<cbx33> the listener service then constantly checks for those services and shuts them down
<cbx33> teachers would kill for that kind of control here
<cbx33> we don;t use it in our software cos it's crap and doesn't work
<sbalneav> ogra: ping!!!
<rkd> cbx33: couldn't you do that with linux groups?
<cbx33> rkd, you mean user groups?
<cbx33> as in /etc/groups
<rkd> chgrp web /usr/bin/firefox; chmod 750 /usr/bin/firefox, then add and remove students from the web group
<rkd> yeah
<cbx33> rkd, nah
<cbx33> that's too primitive
<cbx33> we need finegrained control
<cbx33> it may be you only want to block a certain user from running an app
<cbx33> a certain student
<rkd> it'd probably work better than hunting down and killing firefox processes for certain users every so often
<rkd> cbx33: so remove that user from the web group
<cbx33> but what if they already have it open
<cbx33> RichEd, got it
<j^2> granted i guess i could uninstall the apps from the main boot image righ?
<j^2> sorry i was AFK for i bit
<rkd> ok, point
<j^2> i'm at work
<j^2> ...*sigh*
<rkd> but there are flaws with just killing certain processes; they could work around that with symlinks or something
<rkd> maybe a mix of both? groups as a preventative measure, a kill interface as a proactive measure?
<cbx33> rkd, possible
<cbx33> killing a process with the right signal shouldn't cause any harm
<rkd> yep
<cbx33> but manipulating the groups, hmm....I wouldn't like to do that on a minute by minute basis
<rkd> it's not really 'minute by minute'
<cbx33> could be
<cbx33> kids coming up to a teacher
<cbx33> I've finished my work, can I go on the internet now
<cbx33> "yes little jimmy, let me just unlobck you"
<rkd> if students only needed web access for part of a lesson or something, yeah, i guess
<rkd> even so, frequent group modifying isn't that bad; this is the kind of thing the permissions system was made for, after all
<cbx33> well yeh
<cbx33> I dunno, personal preference I guess
<cbx33> I'll see what ogra says
<LaserJock> RichEd or rodarvus: you guys seen oliver?
<RichEd> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@p54A830BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 44m 53s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<RichEd> :)
<LaserJock> darn, Is he gone for the evening?
<RichEd> hi mr electric kilt :)
<LaserJock> hehe, hi Mr. JaneW
<RichEd> he's at sprint ... so may be tied up ...
<LaserJock> are you at the Sprint?
<RichEd> or lack of connectivity ...
<RichEd> or out for dinner ...
<RichEd> Nope. Me's sitting in darkest Africa bwana.
<LaserJock> RichEd: ah, I thought you might be there.
<cbx33> LaserJock, he was around
<cbx33> I was talking to him, then he dissapeared
<cbx33> his net connection has been awful
<LaserJock> !seen rodarvus 
<RichEd> cbx33: 44m 53s ago IN FACT + ABOUT 10
<ubotu> rodarvus is on IRC right now!
<Burgwork> LaserJock, that means their interweb died
<LaserJock> :(
<Burgwork> notice that they both quit at the same time?
* RichEd apologises for caps ... blames his keyboard
<Burgwork> too early for dinner
<LaserJock> I was going to say that I almost got the dynamics specs to a first implementation
<Burgwork> very cool
<LaserJock> s/dynamics specs/dynamic menu spec/
<RichEd> Burgwork ? rodarvus  is here but inactive connection is still live but idle
<cbx33> I thought you were shouting at me RichEd 
<cbx33> :(
<Burgwork> anybody seen amaranth? the version of willowng in the archives it broken
<Burgwork> RichEd, but the fact they are were both active until the exact same time means their interweb-ish stuff is dead
<RichEd> too far away cbx33 ... shouting wouldn't help from here
<cbx33> Burgwork, no....I heard that from someone else though
<Burgwork> I guess the truck stalled
<RichEd> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> pong
<rodarvus> ogra and I were in a meeting with the rest of the ubuntu development team and sabdfl
<rodarvus> LaserJock, RichEd: (but we are leaving in a minute) any message you would like me to forward to ogra?
* RichEd is fine : was just trying to help laserjock with a locate
<LaserJock> rodarvus: can you just tell ogra that I have a very rough dynamic-menus implementation
<rodarvus> sure, I'll tell him
<LaserJock> I'll probably send you guys an email when I have something usable
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get to work (the wife is waiting), I'll bbl
* RichEd needs to feed the sprogs ... until tamarra ... adious
<Burgwork> RichEd, that made absolutely no sense
<rkd> "RichEd needs to feed the children...until tomorrow...goodbye"
<RichEd> I needs to feed my offspring ... Quinn & Griffin ... So I will be off IRC until tomorrow ... Goodbye until then.
<rkd> (i think)
<RichEd> rkd : 10 points
<rkd> w00t
<Burgwork> right
<cbx33> ping pygi got time for that chat
<pygi> cbx33, not really :(
<cbx33> okies
<cbx33> np
<cbx33> ogra liked my SCP work :p
<pygi> cbx33, nice
<mhz> RichEd: ping
<mhz> hi all
<LaserJock> hi mhz 
<mhz> LaserJock: good results with menus?
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> LaserJock, excelletn
<cbx33> howz it all going
<VladimirBG> hello
<LaserJock> hi VladimirBG 
<VladimirBG> I'm interested in improving edubuntu, yet I have virtualy no programing experience
<VladimirBG> I don't know if just suggestions would do
<sbalneav> Suggestions are always welcome.
<mhz> VladimirBG: what do you mean by 'improve' ?
<VladimirBG> what would be the most effective way for me to express them?
<rkd> VladimirBG: or beta testing, or graphic design work, or advocacy work...
<sbalneav> English? :)
<VladimirBG> I am advocating it, yet, it's dificult to adept it for use in a school in Serbia without full language support
<VladimirBG> also, a few other app and better documentation would go a long way
<rkd> VladimirBG: so why not help with translation and write documentation?
<VladimirBG> I'd like to help, what software can I use for translation? 
<sbalneav> VladimirBG: The stuff that comes already in your head! :)
<mhz> VladimirBG: most of translations are taken care via Rosetta interface
<sbalneav> On any app, click on "help"
<mhz> at launchpad sitre
<sbalneav> then "Translate this application"
<mhz> site
<VladimirBG> one more important thing, testing app needs to be made bulitproof for cheating
<VladimirBG> in a way that while taking the test one cannot multi-task or access other apps or the internet
<Burgwork> VladimirBG, the testing app is under development
<Burgwork> http://py-education.sf.net/
<pygi> highvoltage, poke? :)
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@p54A830BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 4h 42m 34s ago, quiting: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<cbx33> :(
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<cbx33> hey pygi
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> surely you have time for me now :p
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I'm j/k
<pygi> I will have time in 5 minutes, as soon as I fix this mess of mine which broke a lot of stuff :)
<cbx33> oooh nice
<cbx33> just ping me
<cbx33> I'm just setting up a Counter Strike Source server for my brother in law
<cbx33> eh?
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> irssi tells you when it's a new day 
<pygi> cbx33, I'm ready
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> wanna take it into pm?
<pygi> cbx33, whatever suits you
<cbx33> Hi LaserJock_ 
<cbx33> I'm baaaaccckkk
<LaserJock_> ack
<cbx33> hehe
<StephenL> What file can I add startup programs to?
<LaserJock> You can do it via graphical tools but I'm not sure what file it goes to
<StephenL> Yeah I know how using the gui, but I'm trying to figure out what file it goes to.
#edubuntu 2006-08-25
<Burgwork> oh
<Burgwork> LaserJock, if he comes back, you need to a .desktop file to /etc/xdg/autostart *I think*
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> yes, I saw that when I was working on the menu stuff
<LaserJock> should have thought of that
<bddebian> Hello
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: hey. two issues. The package of willowng in edgy is borked. It says it is starting willowng but then doesn't
<Burgundavia> 2nd: gnome people are complaining of broken buttons in alacarte
* gnomefreak hasnt found anything broken about alacarte in edgy or dapper i saw a bug or 2 on it and i cant repruduce them
<Burgundavia> gnomefreak: right
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: Dealt with the alacarte stuff the best I could, what willowng issues are you referring to?
<LaserJock> Amaranth: does content filtering work in willowng?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> although the current package lacks working training code
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: hmm, now it is working
<Burgundavia> I take that back
<LaserJock> A guy I know is worked on a pykde port that he'd like to get inculded and he said that domain filtering worked but content filtering didn't
<Amaranth> perhaps he meant the GTK gui?
<LaserJock> no
<Amaranth> i know that's broken, hoping to have some downtime during school tomorrow to poke
<LaserJock> ok
<Burgundavia> no, the filter itself was not starting
<Burgundavia> so the UI would fail
<Amaranth> hrm
<Burgundavia> a saner thing would be to have the GUI start but notified the user the filter is not active and offer to start it
<Amaranth> I suppose. :)
<Amaranth> ooh, new nvidia drivers
<LaserJock> if he contributes a pykde port would you consider putting it in the package? like willowng-config-kde or something?
<Amaranth> sure, as long as he makes it work with the current build system
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> cool
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: is the UI instant apply?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Burgundavia> do I need to configure the browser to use the proxy?
<Amaranth> yeah, that part isn't working yet :)
<Amaranth> and if firefox doesn't honor gconf's proxy settings it probably won't ever work
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I use epiphany
<Amaranth> yeah, i don't actually set the gconf stuff yet
<Amaranth> it's on my "must be done for fear of death" list ;)
<Amaranth> or "Things to Do - IMPORTANT"
<Burgundavia> why not a transparent proxy?
<Burgundavia> or at least an option for one
<Amaranth> that was the original plan, someone on the ubuntu-dev team said it was a really bad idea
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> things which assume no proxy might break
<Amaranth> indeed, things break
<Amaranth> not many things but no breaking is better
<Burgundavia> any idea specifically what?
<Amaranth> hmm...i wonder if i can get \sh to include a patch for WINE that makes my game work</random>
<Amaranth> no idea, squid's website might have examples
<Burgundavia> minor gripe, your packing is a little off on the first tab
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> look at the glade file and cry :P
<Burgundavia> you need a UI designer
<Burgundavia> sadly I can draw it but glade makes me cry
<Amaranth> you mean a person or a program?
<Burgundavia> the program
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> let me try again
<Amaranth> do you mean i need a person to design things or a program to help me create a glade file?
<Burgundavia> the latter mostly
<jsgotangco> look for glatzor, he could help, he did g-a-i and home backup
<Amaranth> i used the glade program to make my glade file
<Amaranth> if i had coded that XML beast by hand i would have shot myself
<highvoltage> sorry, I had a highlight from someone yesterday, but there is too much scrollback for me to catch up.
<highvoltage> good morning, #edubuntu
<jsgotangco> hello
<highvoltage> hello jsgotangco 
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: pygi was looking for you
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: ok :)
<Burgundavia> sadly it appears you are continuing to miss each other, despite being in mostly compatible timezones
* Burgundavia laughs
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> yesterday I had virtually no PC time
<highvoltage> we had a big meeting with all the local schools
<jsgotangco> hey highvoltage i got the chance to watch codebreakers in full last night ;)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: wow! i haven't even seen it in full yet!
<jsgotangco> how come i didnt see you there heh
<highvoltage> lol
<highvoltage> jsgotangco++
<jsgotangco> Inkululeku was mentioned
<jsgotangco> along with digital doorway
<jsgotangco> wow pluto was demoteed
<Burgundavia> Dear Pluto, Your status has a planet has been removed, effective August 24th, 2006, CE. We regret to take this drastic action but we have found that the planetary club was getting sadly crowded, with lots of your rowdy friends trying to join. Please add some mass and years and then we will reconsider. Yours, IAU
<highvoltage> eek
<highvoltage> what if the plutonians declare war on us?
<Burgundavia> they are merely dwarfs
<highvoltage> dubya would like that, it would give him a carreer boost :)
<Burgundavia> We will fight in orbit, we will fight in the asteroid belt, we will never surrender
<highvoltage> "Pluto is an axis of evil"
<Burgundavia> no, Pluto, Charon and Xena are the axis of evi
<highvoltage> :)
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: what is required with https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-xfce-desktop
<Burgundavia> I see it has been deferred
<jsgotangco> bwahaha
<jsgotangco> axis of interplanetary evil
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: it's basically changing the xubuntu-desktop metapackage to be 'edubuntu friendly'
<Burgundavia> right
<highvoltage> ie make sure the menu's are more or less the same, and that all the features available for the edubuntu desktop works on Xfce
<jsgotangco> really???
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: more or less :)
<highvoltage> when i say that, i don't mean that Xfce should have all the features of gnome
<Burgundavia> wonder why it go deferred. That seems like an afternoon of work plus some testing
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: have you seen this?? http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjr/index.html
<highvoltage> but that if we say sabayon works on edubuntu, it sould work with the alternative edubuntu desktop as well
<Burgundavia> right, that is an issue
<Burgundavia> because sabayon requires gconf
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: no, i haven't, but it looks quite nifty
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: know what it costs?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: you should direct those last two comments at jsgotangco
<Burgundavia> it is a solid state thin client
<highvoltage> oh sorry, prices are on the page :)
<highvoltage> solid state++
<Burgundavia> disklessworkstations stuff is cheaper and it supports LTSP
<jsgotangco> it shouldt go beyond $90 in bulk
<jsgotangco> i will probably get an eval unit for testing with the foundation
<highvoltage> aaah, I've seen some of their other products
<highvoltage> norhtec sent me a pamphlet with some of their products earlier this week
<highvoltage> i forwarded it to jason, he's interested in some of their machines for the freedom toasters
<jsgotangco> should be good stuff
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Bonez56_> hi all, i am building a PC for a family with kids aged 5 and 11, and they want MS windows + *buntu. In your opinion, would I be better off going with Ubuntu or Edubuntu?
<Bonez56__> any suggestions?
<RichEd> highvoltage: re norhtec ... do you think it is worth starting a relationship with them ? asking them what linux they pre-install and inviting them to get their h/w certified for ubuntu / edubuntu OEM
<Burgundavia> Bonez56_: edubuntu is ubuntu with ltsp and education games, plus a new theme
<Burgundavia> Bonez56_: thus, you can give them eudubntu and still get office, et.c
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes that sounds worth while
<highvoltage> RichEd: i think both them and canonical could benefit from that, potentially
<RichEd> :) already filled in their contact form asking for a mail and a chat
<RichEd> schweet thanks
<ogra> cbx33, mark  was very impressed by SCP yesterday (i actually had the opportunity to show him the upcoming edgy stuff for 10 mins yesterday)
<cbx33> ogra, really ?
<cbx33> Cool !
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> I think I figured out the plugin framework stuff too
<cbx33> so I'll give that a go later on today
<ogra> nice :)
<cbx33> did he give any feedback on things to change?
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> there wasnt enough time to go through everything
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> Iwouldn't have thought there would have been
<ogra> he just took a quick look at the new upcoming apps and wanted a demo of the localdev stuff
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> have you made any changes to my code...?
<cbx33> as in
<cbx33> shall I merge with you, or havnt you merged yet?
<ogra> i only enabled the userlist detection ...
<cbx33> ok cool
<ogra> i think we can just switch to your code completely .... i'll merge it and take that as a base for further development
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> we should urgently look if we can get it backported to dapper if its in a useable state
<cbx33> had a good chat with LaserJock last ngiht
<cbx33> ogra, yeh that'd be cool
<cbx33> we sorted out some of the dynamic menus stuff
<ogra> classroom management comes up more often ...
<ogra> good 
<cbx33> well, I hope to have something to shw for plugins by the end of the day
<ogra> cool !
<ogra> plugins isnt really critical though 
<cbx33> well, 
<cbx33> what else do you want me to work on that is critical
<cbx33> and I'll pool my resources there instead
<ogra> just go on with SCP :)
<cbx33> ok, plugins it is.......
<cbx33> I'll try to get my head round the VNC stuf too
<cbx33> but that requires me to have an LTSPsetup
<cbx33> which I have but isnt so easy to coordinate
<ogra> right
<ogra> and vnc to the currently running display has very funny sideffects ... been there 
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> ogra, pessulus was the other thing
<cbx33> I was talking with someone yesterday about the ability to lockdown applications
<ogra> well, there is a howto for pessulus somewhere, jdub once pointed me to it, but i dont have the url anymore
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> is that a high priority?
<cbx33> can it lockdown apps that are allowed to run?
<ogra> i'm not sure, it can at least forbid the user to open a terminal or start a browser, so i think it can
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> we discussed having a listening app which had a list of apps, the user was "allowed" to ue
<cbx33> use
<cbx33> could even be our listener process
<cbx33> it will kill any process that isn't on the list
<ogra> thats not very elegant ... it rather should avoid them from starting at all
<cbx33> how can we do that ?
<RichEd> highvoltage: NohrTec responded ... do you have any info on this for me ?
<ogra> no idea ... 
<RichEd> " We have tested Mepis which is based on Ubuntu core. "
<cbx33> we'd need something that interrupts
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> well lemme just say....that's how its done on the M$ platform in a lot of cases
<ogra> but killing apps while they start up is evil
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> the other option was playing with groups....and permissions
<cbx33> but I didn't like that idea
<ogra> might break defaults etc ... i.e. imagine a half in place firefox profile because it was kiled over and over ... and now you enable the user to use ff again ... it will be broken
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> groups and permissins would be a proper way, but a hell lot of administration effort ... and we'd have to chaneg a lot (and maintain the changes)
<cbx33> we need a system that intervenes before users run processes......
<cbx33> ogra, yes
<ogra> whats wrong with having the menu items removed and disabling the use of the commandline and alt-f2
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what about them bringing in bash scripts
<cbx33> that they run off a usb stick
<cbx33> infact do we have the capability to stop them executing anything fro ma local device?
<RichEd> --> meeting approx 2 hours <--
<RichEd> (as in I will be away)
<cbx33> ok RichEd 
<cbx33> thanks for the chat yesterday
<cbx33> did you get my last comments
<RichEd> just saw them now ... so a last comment on that topic ... because you're ahead, you'll be behind :)
<RichEd> as in : there is a greater adoption of cellphones per capita in thailand than in the US
<RichEd> why ?
<cbx33> eh?
<RichEd> protection of capex investments in old infrastructure by companies, and lobbyists
<RichEd> and the UK suffers the same issues with m$ industry vs oss industry
<RichEd> have to dash
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> take care
<highvoltage> RichEd: Mepis was previously Debian based, and now they're Ubuntu based
<cbx33> hi willvdl 
<willvdl> hey cbx33
<cbx33> howz it going?
<willvdl> it's all good. you?
<cbx33> yeh yeh going good
* willvdl smells burning
<willvdl> urk
<willvdl> cbx33, did you read the Marketing mail from RichEd?
<cbx33> yes i did
<cbx33> sounds great
<willvdl> just some initial thoughts. trying to seperate the canonical and ubuntu specific stuff
<cbx33> yeh
<willvdl> but I reckon I should move it to the ubuntu-marketing channels/lists/team
<cbx33> i saw that
<cbx33> how do you see the leaflet/pamphlet moving foward?
<cbx33> there is a lot of ideas in that email?
<cbx33> how will you decide which is best to use to implement?
<willvdl> well, after a chat with RichEd yesterday things were put in context.
<cbx33> great !
<cbx33> right I'm off for a while guys
<willvdl> We have a _limited_ opportunity as such for leaflets, i.e. we could get one or two templates printed with a big ubuntu/canonical print run
<cbx33> bbl
<cbx33> willvdl, yes
<willvdl> I'll mail you
<cbx33> that makes sense
<cbx33> willvdl, please do
<DanielC> ogra: Sound is already enabled :(  Here is my lts.conf  http://pastebin.com/775545
* DanielC wonders if lts.conf is case-sensitive (e.g. [Default]  vs [default] )
<RichEd> hi all ...
<highvoltage> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> hello highvoltage : Good meeting .. thanks. I think we can progress on quite a few fronts. I'll get some high-level clearance on general directions, and then we can get some actions under way. 
<highvoltage> RichEd: yep
<highvoltage> RichEd: thanks
<RichEd> Tell me where I can read more on Mepis ?
<RichEd> Pliss. Tankyew.
<highvoltage> the same place where we read more about everything :)
<highvoltage> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEPIS
<highvoltage> they have links from that page to the mepis page, mepis on distrowatch, etc
<highvoltage> so that should give you pointers to more information if you'd need it.
<RichEd> tx.
<RichEd> hi ogra & rodarvus : has it been going well ?
<highvoltage> where is ESA on help.ubuntu.com
<DanielC> ESA = European Space Agency?
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Schools Advocacy
<DanielC> ah :)
<willvdl> Endangered Species Act?
<willvdl> highvoltage, only seems to be on doc.ubuntu.com
<RichEd> highvoltage: on the wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<highvoltage> willvdl, RichEd: thanks :)
<willvdl> urk. there's a wiktionary too
<sbalneav> Morning all
<willvdl> ola
<willvdl> did anybody read this? http://crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml;?articleId=192203540
<RichEd> ping will
<willvdl> pong
<RichEd> can you pvt will ?
<RichEd> all: this is a useful diagram: linux distro timeline: http://www.kde-files.org/content/files/44218-linuxdistrotimeline-6.8.2.png
<willvdl> sorry... upgraded kernel and need to isnert nozomi module for 3g
<RichEd> check your email
<willvdl> thanks
<bddebian> Howdy
<StephenL> Is there a good way to map a users home directory to their active directory home directory at logon?
<hlabs> guys i need some help. In edubuntu is there any way to convert video to flash viceo                    
<hlabs> i meant flash video
<sbalneav> hlabs: I don't think so, what is it you're trying to do?
<sbalneav> maybe you can do it another way
<hlabs> i am trying to convert my home video to flash video. Like turn it into flv format          
<sbalneav> ok, I guess my question is, WHY does it need to be in flash format?  
<sbalneav> I think the "ffmpeg" program will convert things FROM flash to mpeg, which is more standard for linux.  Google turns up the following:
<sbalneav> http://www.jadmadi.net/2006/06/22/ubuntu-howto-converting-flv-to-mpg/
<LaserJock> ogra: you around?
<LaserJock> ogra: I'm nearing a working dynamic-menus
<LaserJock> ogra: it wasn't as easy as I had hoped (just setting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS) as it only picks up the first menu it finds
<ogra> wow !
<LaserJock> so what I did is set up a /users/ folder in /usr/share/edubuntu-menus/ that houses the applications.menu for each user
<LaserJock> and then I just point XDDG_CONFIG_DIRS there
<LaserJock> here is my Xsession.d script: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21651
<LaserJock> it might be pretty bad (I'm not very good at shell scripting) but it works so far
<sbalneav> LaserJock: is that the whole of it, or is there more stuff?  If you want to send me a tarball, I can do some testing this weekend.
<LaserJock> well, I'm currently writing a python script (edubuntu-menus-update) that is used to actually write the applications.menu
<LaserJock> I can send you an email when I get it fully functional
<LaserJock> I'm sure it will all need tweaking
<sbalneav> ok, be glad to help write and/or test anything you need help with.
<LaserJock> in particular I'm concerned about slowing down login with all the stuff I'm doing
<scythe> hi
<sbalneav> Hello
<LaserJock> the one thing I have left to do in that script is what happens when somebody removes a user from the menu groups
<ogra> phew
<ogra> that was a hard day
<sbalneav> I can imagine
<sbalneav> You never said
<sbalneav> did the infod stuff do what you want?
<ogra> and i'm really upset about Keybuks behavior
<ogra> i havent seen it yet 
<LaserJock> what got taken out?
<ogra> did you mail it to me ? 
<sbalneav> Yes
<ogra> LaserJock, nothing
<sbalneav> yesterday
<ogra> oh
<sbalneav> Need me to re-mail it?
<ogra> LaserJock, pitti approved the localdev packages in advance, taking my word that the fixes would come soon
<ogra> Keybuk did accept them last friday ... 
<ogra> but removed them from main today ...
<ogra> that breaks ltsp now and thus the next knot CD 
<LaserJock> :/ can you get them back in?
<ogra> but we got it sorted last minute 
<ogra> (only mdz and me are left in the room... he'll shut down the net soon)
<LaserJock> ok
<sbalneav> Tell mdz Scott says "Is he coming?!?!?!?!"
<ogra> sbalneav, hmm, the last mail i got from you is the floppies mail
<ogra> sbalneav, he wont
<sbalneav> ?!
<ogra> i told jammcq already
<sbalneav> poo.
<sbalneav> ok, hold on, I'll resend.
<LaserJock> ogra: do you want me to email you a tarball when I get this thing working?
<LaserJock> I don't want to bug you too much, but I'd like to not have the spec dropped either
<LaserJock> :-)
<sbalneav> ogra: telnet <server> 9100
<sbalneav> getcfg SERVER_LANGS
<sbalneav> getcfg SERVER_SESSIONS
<sbalneav> sent, btw
<ogra> LaserJock, sure ... lets talk on the weekend if i have some decent internet access 
<ogra> cool !
<LaserJock> ogra: you will be back at your home?
<ogra> i'll hack that up in ldm asap
<ogra> LaserJock, tomorrow afternooon
<LaserJock> ah cool
<LaserJock> alright, I'll keep working away in the mean time :-)
<LaserJock> thanks ogra
<ogra> cool that you make it happen ...
<sbalneav> err did I say 9100?
<sbalneav> 9200
<ogra> heh
<ogra> netstat would have told me :)
<sbalneav> feniks$ telnet localhost 9200
<sbalneav> Trying 127.0.0.1...
<sbalneav> Connected to localhost.localdomain.
<sbalneav> Escape character is '^] '.
<sbalneav> getcfg SERVER_LANGS
<sbalneav> en_AU.utf8
<sbalneav> en_BW.utf8
<sbalneav> en_CA.utf8
<sbalneav> en_DK.utf8
<sbalneav> ...
<sbalneav> and:
<sbalneav> feniks$ telnet localhost 9200
<sbalneav> Trying 127.0.0.1...
<sbalneav> Connected to localhost.localdomain.
<sbalneav> Escape character is '^] '.
<sbalneav> getcfg SERVER_SESSIONS
<sbalneav> /usr/bin/gnome-session
<sbalneav> Connection closed by foreign host.
<ogra> SEXY
<ogra> !!!!
<sbalneav> Did you get the email?
<sbalneav> should be ~83k
<sbalneav> it's already gnuifies
<ogra> yup, here
<sbalneav> we should rename it to something else.  ldmsessd, or something
<LaserJock> DanielC: ping
<DanielC> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> DanielC: did you see that openoffice.org-starter-guide was mentioned in the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter :-)
<DanielC> LaserJock: Cool! No I didn't know that!
<DanielC> LaserJock: Do you have a link?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue10
<DanielC> *click*
<DanielC> Thanks for telling me!
<LaserJock> under New Apps in Edgy
<DanielC> page loading...
<DanielC> I see it! Yay!
<DanielC> I'll show Jean and the other writers. They'll be very happy.
* Burgwork is glad he makes people happy by mentioning them
<LaserJock> yep
<DanielC> :)
<sbalneav> OK, I'm heading off for a lunch walk.  Be back in an hour.
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<LaserJock> hi P3L|C4N0 
<P3L|C4N0> hi LaserJock 
<Burgwork> hey pygi 
<pygi> hello Burgundavia 
<pygi> Burgwork, *
<cbx333> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi cbx333 
<cbx333> oh shucks
<cbx333> you can call me cbx33 
<cbx333> howz it going LaserJock 
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> good
<cbx333> howz Dynamic Menus
<LaserJock> pretty good
<cbx333> cool
<cbx333> I'm just about to start some test code for the plugin framework of SCP :D
<LaserJock> cbx33:  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/21651
<cbx33> ooooooh
<cbx33> :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
<cbx33> pygi, I have the plugin framework well on the way
<pygi> cbx33, congrats, I knew you can do it
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> now I have a quick question for you
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> oh actually
<cbx33> nevermind
<pygi> Somehow I knew it ! :)
<cbx33> I can figure it out
<cbx33> hehehe :p
<pygi> hm,oki :)
<cbx33> no no I'll figure it out myself
<cbx33> I gotta learn right
<pygi> oki, if you saw yo
<neurogeek> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I last saw mhz (n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz) 20h 5m 9s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<cbx33> pygi, it is working
<cbx33> and I mean WORKING
<cbx33> I have everything I need to integrate it into SCP
<pygi> cbx33, congrats :)
<pygi> did it the way we talked?
<cbx33> yes
<pygi> good :)
<cbx33> I'll jump some code up to bzr soon you can take a look
<cbx33> basically ther eis a plugins directory
<cbx33> the code looks through there for any file named .py
<cbx33> and loads it as a module
<cbx33> it the runs the register function inside that module
<cbx33> and gets the class name of the plugin
<cbx33> and then from that
<cbx33> creates a list....that's right a list....
<cbx33> where each element in the list is a callable object to hte plugins class
<cbx33> s/hte/a
<cbx33> so we have a list we can step through to create the plugins menu :D
<cbx33> I'm thrilled it works
<cbx33> ogra is gonna be happy I hope too
<pygi> :)
<cbx33> pygi ok, I just started using try and except
<cbx33> you knew there would be one question
<cbx33> basically when the code runs the register function
<cbx33> if that function is not there I have used try and except to say it is not a valid module file
<cbx33> but after that in the loop of going through each plugin I try to load the modules class....
<cbx33> what would be the best way to say....if the try fails
<cbx33> don't do anything else in the for loop...and move to the next iteration?
<cbx33> pygi.......:( :p
<cbx33> should the code that comes after be put into the try block?
<cbx33> no...that's not right
<cbx33> I could flag it
<cbx33> and set the flag if it fails
<cbx33> and then only execute subsequent code if the flag is false/true ???
<cbx33> but I wonder if there is a better way to do it?
<cbx33> nevermind
<cbx33> I found it
<cbx33> continue statement
<cbx33> :D
#edubuntu 2006-08-26
<cbx33> HEY rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33
<LaserJock> rodarvus: hi!
<rodarvus> hi LaserJock!
<rodarvus> it is about time I should be in bed, but I'm not feeling like it, really
<LaserJock> rodarvus: and how is the X master and Edubuntu chief doing today?
<rodarvus> I'm not edubuntu chief :) (and really just temporary X mantainer, until we can find the right person to hire ;) )
<LaserJock> fine
<rodarvus> but I'm fine, thanks for asking - a little tired after a rather busy week
<rodarvus> eager to get back home soon, etc
<LaserJock> yes, I bet
<rodarvus> these developers conferences are great, but you *really* want to get back home after a whole week
<LaserJock> heh
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> must be exhasting
<LaserJock> rodarvus: so how is the distro sprint compared to the developer summit?
<rodarvus> really different
<rodarvus> it was totally "getting work done" oriented
* cbx33 hopes he can get to the next summit
<rodarvus> paris sprint was a lot of brainstorming
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> where is the next sprint gonna be?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to turn into a shell programmer here
<LaserJock> sprint or summit?
<cbx33> LaserJock, go go go
<cbx33> summit
<LaserJock> not exactly sure, rodarvus might know better than me
<LaserJock> I've heard Brazil and LA/San Diego
<rodarvus> next summit is supposed to happen in November, after Edgy is released
<rodarvus> don't take my word as official, though
<rodarvus> no commited place, until now
<cbx33> ok
<rodarvus> (no really reason to be in Brazil though, in my humble opinion, its too far from europe and US)
<LaserJock> yeah, but the food sounds great!
<rodarvus> haha
<rodarvus> true
<cbx33> rodarvus, has there been any places tooted?
<rodarvus> food is great here
<rodarvus> in a general sense, yes
<rodarvus> I don't have details on it, though
<Burgwork> LaserJock, canonical is talking north america
<LaserJock> north america?
<LaserJock> doh
<cbx33> woohoo
<cbx33> heheh
<Burgwork> vancouver was raised as a good place
<Burgwork> by me
<cbx33> if I get funding that is
<rodarvus> north america would be great, in my opinion (but again, don't take it as official, or even as an indication it would be there)
<LaserJock> Burgwork: of course ;-)
<cbx33> heheh
<rodarvus> I just think it would be nice to have a conference there for the first time
<Burgwork> mine is from a night of drinking with the canonical crew, so don't believe me either
<bddebian> Hello
<rodarvus> the big pro would be to have more contributions from US
<LaserJock> I think Vancouver would be excellent
<rodarvus> the big con is that its getting harder and harder for strangers to go to US
<cbx33> yeh
<Burgwork> vanoucver removes that issue
<LaserJock> of course those silly people up north already got Montreal ;-)
<LaserJock> it would be nice to have good internet, it seems like a big annoyance  when the connection isn't great
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> anyone know how to help me with my network 
<cbx33> I have an ipw2200 device
<cbx33> I just modprobed the driver
<cbx33> but how do I set it up
<rodarvus> type iwconfig
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> shows nothing
<cbx33> :(
<rodarvus> if the card is recognized (probably as wlan0)
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> i ge a big fat 0
<rodarvus> you just have to configure it on System->Administration->Networking
<rodarvus> oh
<rodarvus> thats strange
<cbx33> yes
<rodarvus> ipw2200 is pretty straightforward
<cbx33> lspci shows it is present
<cbx33> 0000:02:04.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys, A Division of Cisco Systems [AirConn]  INPROCOMM IPN 2220 Wireless LAN Adapter (rev 01)
<cbx33> any other ideas?
<rodarvus> nothing extra should be needed
<rodarvus> does dmesg tells you anything?
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> [4305010.395000]  ipw2200: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200/2915 Network Driver, 1.1.1
<cbx33> [4305010.395000]  ipw2200: Copyright(c) 2003-2006 Intel Corporation
<cbx33> [4305010.395000]  Warning: PCI driver ipw2200 has a struct device_driver shutdown method, please update!
<rodarvus> it was apparently recognized correctly
<cbx33> yeh
<crimsun> is this dapper or edgy?
<cbx33> dapper
<crimsun> $ grep -i ipw /proc/interrupts
<cbx33> nothing
<crimsun> that's problematic.
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> any ideas o wise one ?
<crimsun> xt-pic or io-apci being used?
<crimsun> io-apic, even
<cbx33> how do I check?
<cbx33> as I'm not sure?
<crimsun> err
<cbx33> ok nm
<crimsun> INPROCOMM IPN 2220 apparently uses a completely different driver
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> ok
<crimsun> you have to use ndiswrapper according to http://www.frexx.de/nutz/acer-aspire-1522wlmi.html#wlan
<cbx33> ok
<crimsun> (which explains no irq being allocated for it)
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> excellent crimsun you're a gem
<cbx33> do I have to compile the ndiswrapper kernel module myself?
<crimsun> already included (modprobe ndiswrapper)
<cbx33> cool
<crimsun> you'll want to check a howto on the wiki/forum
<crimsun> I have only rudimentary exposure to ndiswrapper
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I have used it once before
<cbx33> crimsun, I have it oloaded and working
<cbx33> you know how to use WPA?
<crimsun> I'm comfortable configuring /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf if that's what you're asking
<cbx33> heheh yeh supposed I am
<crimsun> I've used network-manager once, and it left a sour taste
<cbx33> I found a howto about configuring wpa_supplicant
<cbx33> http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/index.php/WPA
<crimsun> so it really depends which tool you wish to use
<cbx33> not network-manager
<cbx33> i looked at that earlier and had the same reaction as you
<cbx33> does that howto look ok?
<cbx33> w00t working
<rodarvus> network manager is ok. its only problem is that it won't work with most cards
<rodarvus> but if you have a card it works well (such as the ipw 3945) its ok
<pete_> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, edubuntu-desktop is currently broken :(
<LaserJock> because of scribus, which is because of python-tk
<LaserJock> but I can't figure out why python-tk won't install
<crimsun> because the new python2.4 subsumes it.
<crimsun> I nearly merged it, but I'm glad Matthias did it
<LaserJock> subsumes?
<crimsun> apt-cache show python2.4|egrep '^(Conflicts|Replaces)'
<cbx33> nn all
<cbx33> thanks again crimsun 
<crimsun> np
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> note 'python-tk (<< 2.4.3-2)'
<LaserJock> so do we have to do a bunch of fixes for that?
<crimsun> no, python-tk just needs to be merged.
<crimsun> I presume he'll do that, too.
<LaserJock> hmm
<crimsun> http://merges.ubuntu.com/p/python-stdlib-extensions/REPORT
<crimsun> I think there's a bug open on it
<LaserJock> ok
* HedgeMage peeks in
<ggeller> How much diskspace does the edubuntu workstation install use?
<nixternal> i just fired up Edubuntu Edgy, upgrading it now. let me just say good job...i think it is the hottest looking setup, the icons are great, the wallpaper owns...im a KDE guy and I like this Gnome look ;)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Evening bddebian!!
<Burgundavia> nixternal: you will get converted
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> my panel is fubarred right now
<nixternal> Burgundavia: when i click on "Applications", the menu flashes, and is unusable...any clues?
<Burgundavia> nixternal: right, so that is it trying to draw the menu and failing
<Burgundavia> something is corrupting it
<nixternal> lovely
<Burgundavia> given it (and the kde menu) are dynamically generated out of .desktop and .menu files, I have no idea where to even start looking
<Burgundavia> welcome to edgy
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> hi nrdb
<LaserJock> ;-)
<nrdb> I know edubuntu comes with ltsp, is this setup to run from the live cd?
<nrdb> LaserJock: hi
<Burgundavia> nrdb: not currently
<LaserJock> nrdb: no Edubuntu uses the alternate cd for LTSP
<nrdb> Burgundavia: I thought it would be hard to do.
<nrdb> LaserJock: So if I wan't to use LTSP I need to download something other than edubuntu?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> edubuntu is what you want
<LaserJock> just not the live cd
<nrdb> So I would need to install it.
<LaserJock> you want the install cd on http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/6.06.1/
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you can't run LTSP without installing it
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: there is a plan afoot to create such a scd
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: an Ubuntu project
<LaserJock> ?
<Burgundavia> yep, mithrandir was going to work on it
<nrdb> Could it be done by setting up a loopback file with all the configuration needed by LTSP?
<LaserJock> hmm, that would be interesting for sure
<LaserJock> great for showing off to the boss ;-)
<mx> uhm.. how do i detect which video driver is loaded into memory?
<LaserJock> hmm, perhaps lsmod?
<nrdb> One thing I have been wondering about it the there was any demand for a bizubuntu aimed at seting up a small company, maybe with a book keeping app etc.
<nrdb> mx: could you look at the video driver in the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?
<mx> i'm trying to figure out if ctrl+alt+backspace reloads the xorg.conf file
<LaserJock> it does
<mx> alright
<LaserJock> nrdb: I sure think so, I was talking with my wife's aunt who runs a small business
<mx> thanks
<LaserJock> nrdb: she would love to switch to Ubuntu but she needs small business software
<nrdb> does anyone know how much data is needed by LTSP per client approx. ?
<nrdb> LaserJock: Kontact is a good organiser.
<LaserJock> nrdb: data?
<nrdb> LaserJock: config files etc. on the server.
<LaserJock> nrdb: she needs tax software and management stuff. I'm not sure what all
<LaserJock> nrdb: hmm, not sure
<nrdb> LaserJock: have a look at http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/5692/1/ does this help.
<nrdb> LaserJock: I looked at GnuCash a while back.
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<nrdb> LaserJock: The only reason I didn't go further with GnuCash is that it keeps its data in a flat file, I thought this might get slow after several years of data had accumulated.
<nrdb> with edubuntu to install it you can't use the LiveCD you need to use a serperate CD correct?
<LaserJock> nrdb: you want the install cd
<LaserJock> at the URL I gave ^^
<nrdb> LaserJock: I thought so, I will see about downloading it.
<mx> alright.. i'm trying to mount an ntfs partition for general access.. how is that different from a regular mount?
<mx> what i'm doing now is sudo mount, and then sudo konqueror and try to change the permissions, which returns an error (havent really looked into chmod)
<nrdb> mx: ntsp writing isn't supported by the kernel.
<mx> i'd just like to read it
<mx> i can get into it with sudo konqueror, but i cant change permissions from the same place
<mx> mx@mx-desktop:~$ wine fgf*
<mx> wine: could not load L"Z:\\home\\mx\\fgf172.exe": Module not found
<mx> ... wtf?
<mx> shoot, wrong window
<nrdb> just asked on the #ltsp it seems that ltsp has a base install of about 125Mb with each client using a further 100b or so, so to mount a file via a loopback device does seem doable, and have the LiveCD handle clients as well.
<sbalneav> 2
<cbx33> hi bluekuja 
<pygi> morning all
<cbx33> long time no see
<cbx33> My PyGi !
<cbx33> goood mornin to you
<pygi> morning cbx33 
<pygi> how is you?
<cbx33> I'm GREAT 
<cbx33> looking forward to finishing off the plugin implementation today
<cbx33> how about you
<pygi> cbx33, great, just fixed big bug in libburn
<cbx33> nice
<pygi> nice for your plugins cbx33 :)
<cbx33> yeh i hope so
<cbx33> yeh i hope so I'm afraid they'll be rather limitied
<cbx33> you see because we're using dbus for communication to client sessions
<cbx33> maybe these plugins might need to have a client and server class
<cbx33> so they can talk to each other over dbus
<cbx33> what do you think pygi ?
<cbx33> at the moment the plugins only function on the SCP side
<cbx33> so they do have root access
<pygi> root access!!!
<cbx33> well
<cbx33> they are running un der sudo
<pygi> I know, I know
<cbx33> ping ogra 
<cbx33> have I got some news for you
<cbx33> and I need a quick chat about the plugins....it really is a quick chat
<gboutwell> Can someone help me set-up a networked printer?  I'm most the way there, but it's asking for me to select an ppd file and I have no idea why or where to look for these files.
<cbx33> gboutwell, those files deine your printer
<cbx33> define
<cbx33> goto linuxprinting.org
<gboutwell> cbx33: nm... I found where they where and reselected the driver and it's not asking me for it anymore.
<cbx33> ok cool
<gboutwell> No... I'm trying to get it to print the test page..
<cbx33> oh
<gboutwell> s/No/Now/
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> howz it going?
<gboutwell> Good I think... Helps if the printer is turned on.
<cbx33> heheh of course :p
<gboutwell> Looks like that did it... ty
<cbx33> np, I didn't do much
<gboutwell> how do I get it to keep username... It seems to be keeping password, but not user name
<bddebian> Howdy
<gboutwell> are there any issues with upgrading edubuntu to dapper?
<cbx33> hiya bddebian 
<bddebian> Hello cbx33
<cbx33> howz it going bddebian 
<bddebian> Oh OK, thanks
<bddebian> You?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> going really well
<cbx33> just wrote a simple plugin framework in python for SCP
<cbx33> :D
<bddebian> Cool
<cbx33> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> hi cbx33!
<cbx33> howz it hanging
* rodarvus needs to wait another 12 hours before returning home
<rodarvus> this is getting borinng :)
<bddebian> "this" ?
<rodarvus> this == waiting in the hotel
<bddebian> Ahhh
<gboutwell> How can I make edubuntu remember the username & password for a SMB networked printer?
<gboutwell> username & password in this case != the one logged in to edubuntu
<DrkLrd> RichEd-1, ping
<cbx33> rodarvus, :(
<cbx33> is ogra still around?
<rodarvus> he left about 5 hours ago
<rodarvus> I'm the last one here
<cbx33> oh dang it
<cbx33> wanted to ask him a question
<rodarvus> he is probably home by now
<rodarvus> its jut unlikely he has the steam to work on a sunday, after traveling :)
<cbx33> sunday
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> it's saturday
<cbx33> well for me anyway
<gboutwell> I pressed install on a big list of Software Upgrades, it greyed everthing out but I don't see any hour glass or progress... is it froze or is it just doing it all behind the scenes?
<cbx33> run top in a terminal windows
<cbx33> and see if it's working
<gboutwell> what am i looking for in top?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> update-manager
<cbx33> apt
<cbx33> I can't try it seeing as I just updated
<gboutwell> no apt... update-manager is there...
<cbx33> and
<cbx33> is it....working?
<cbx33> w00t - plugin handler is working perfectly
<gboutwell> guess it was just a big list... if finally came-up and showed what it was going to update and is now d/ling them
<gboutwell> if I follow the upgrade-manager's link to dapper upgrade instructions am I going to break edubuntu or is edubuntu ok with an dapper upgrade?
<cbx33> hey pygi 
<cbx33> breezy -> dapper ?
<gboutwell> cbx33: yes
<pygi> cbx33, what with that? :)
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> gboutwell, should be cool
<cbx33> pygi, the plugin interface works with SCP
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> all plugins are read and added to the context menu
<pygi> cbx33, I know
<cbx33> how did you know?
<cbx33> I only just finished it
<pygi> cbx33, :)
<pygi> I have sources :)
<cbx33> pygi, can you add actions to an actiongroup and specify parameters?
<cbx33> an action is usually ('Add to Favorites', None, 'Add to Favorites', None,
<cbx33> 				'Add to Favorites', self.on_add_fav)
<cbx33> but the self.on_add_fav
<cbx33> i need to pass a parameter
<cbx33> I don;t particularly want to create a wrapper function for it
<cbx33> someone suggested lambda
<cbx33> like so ('Disconnect', None, '_Disconnect', None,
<cbx33> 				'Disconnect', lambda self = self: self.logout_user(self.userlist.get_selection()))
<cbx33> but when run, the self, thinks it's applying o the menuitem
<cbx33> and we get this error
<cbx33> AttributeError: 'gtk.Action' object has no attribute 'logout_user'
<cbx33> you got any bright ideas
<cbx33> oh i think i got it
<cbx33> :)
<pygi> :)
<cbx33> another bug fix
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> and we're done
<cbx33> pygi, you got a few minutes to chat about pessulus ?
<pygi> cbx33, I never used that
<cbx33> oh ok....
<cbx33> from the looks of things
<cbx33> it can't be used in the way ogra wants
<cbx33> in his spec
<scythe> hi
<cbx33> gnomefreak, that sux
<cbx33> hi scythe 
<cbx33> the docs of pessulus state, that if you run pessulus as a non-privilaged user
<gnomefreak> hmmmm
<cbx33> the settings will be stored in your own user
<cbx33> which is what we want
<cbx33> basically a centra admin
<gnomefreak> and its not?
<cbx33> can run pessulus to lockdown users systems
<scythe> I'm testing edubuntu first time. looks very nice, but the ubuntu servers seem to be verly slow :(. while installing edubuntu the installer downloads the language packs for DE, this takes about 45 till 60 min. are there any other servers which could be used? and can I transfer the language packs to other edubuntu hd installs, that I don't need to download them again and again?
<cbx33> but....if you are a sudo and run pessulus, it modifies the settings globally
<cbx33> which is not what we want
<cbx33> we want to lockdown each user
<cbx33> the only way I could see of doing that
<cbx33> is to run pessulus as the user you are tryingto edit
<cbx33> and get it to display on the admins screen
<cbx33> if that makes sense ?
<cbx33> scythe, might be worth you wetting up and apt-cacher
<cbx33> but don't ask me how to do it
<gboutwell> scythe: you can set-up an proxy...  technically you can figure out where it d/ls the packages and copy them to the same location on other installs and it 'should' find them as already d/led and not re d/l them.
<cbx33> gboutwell, good idea
<cbx33> gnomefreak, any ideaS?
<gnomefreak> cbx33: so we want it to do what it does as sudo without the sudo
<cbx33> run as sudo -> modifies EVERYONE (not wanted)
<cbx33> run as normal user -> modifies JUST YOU (wanted)
<cbx33> but we want, as a super user....to modify someone elses 
<cbx33> so as ADMIN I want to run pessulus as JOHN so it modifies only JOHN's account
<scythe> gboutwell: ok, I hope that the language packs are normal debs which were downloaded to /var/apt/cache
<cbx33> make sense?
<gnomefreak> cbx33: yes
<cbx33> scythe, should be
<cbx33> gnomefreak, can you think of a way to do that?
<scythe> cbx33: fine :)
<gnomefreak> cbx33: i can think of a few but hmmmm one is change program source to do that or maybe a config file or even wrtie a script for it :( all 3 ways are not easy
<scythe> and are there alternative servers for debs? cause the default ones are very slow. about 11kb/s :/
<cbx33> yeh
<gboutwell> cbx33: sudo su JOHN -c pessulus ?
<gnomefreak> all 3 ways assuming its open source
<cbx33> hmm hang on
<cbx33> what pessulus?
<cbx33> it is
<cbx33> Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
<cbx33> Xlib: No protocol specified
<cbx33> presumably because john doesn't have permission to export to my display?
<gboutwell> cbx33: Yeah... If forgot about that...
<cbx33> gnomefreak, I'd prefer not to change program source if I can
<gnomefreak> i know
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra wouldn't like it
<cbx33> heheh
<gnomefreak> lol
<cbx33> guess I'll have to find another way
<gnomefreak> give john permission to export to you disply?
<cbx33> but then I'd have to do that for every user
<cbx33> makes my display very insecure
<gnomefreak> point
<gboutwell> cbx33: pessulus-run-script JOHN   where pessulus-run-script grants just john xdisplay on your display, runs pessulus and then revokes his xdisplay on your display ?
<scythe> is it possible to resrict changing backrounds, screensaver, etc. for normal users? 
<cbx33> gboutwell, possible
<cbx33> but I'm still vulnerable during that time
<gboutwell> cbx33: Yeah... it's essentially an priveledge escalation...
<cbx33> indeed
<gnomefreak> cbx33: im afraid that is man, website, nor -h tells you than its changing source or making a hack that will do it
<gnomefreak> s/is/if
<cbx33> gnomefreak, yeh
<cbx33> I'll speak to ogra when he get's back
<gboutwell> cbx33: does it have an command-line interface?
<cbx33> what we want is a pessulus option to run as another user
<cbx33> gboutwell, no
<cbx33> nevermind I'll take a ganders at the source and see what I can do
<gboutwell> cbx33: ugh... if it did, then you could build an UI and call the commands and avoid the problem entirely.
<cbx33> gboutwell, or i could just skip pessulus entirely and modify gconf myself
<cbx33> :p
* gboutwell prepares to upgrade to dapper from edubuntu breezy...
<cbx33> go go go :p
<cbx33> hmmm seems like the edgy version of pessulus doesn't have any new features either
<gboutwell> openoffice.org in dapper is essential openoffice.org 2 right?
<lucasvo> yes
<gboutwell> ok... just reviewing what the upgrade would do, noticed it removed oo.o2 packages and installed oo.o packages... figured it was still oo.o2, but double checking anyways.
<gboutwell> Whelp... It'll be a bit... going to take over an hour to d/l all the packages...
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> gnomefreak, I found a way to do what we never thought possible
<cbx33> sux
<gnomefreak> lol
<cbx33> a package called sux
<cbx33> su for X
<cbx33> works like a charm
<cbx33> except pessulus doesn't work great
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> pygi, you around?
<pygi> cbx33, not really right now
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> cbx33, how may I help you'
<pygi> ?
<cbx33> it's fine
<pygi> no, no, shoot!
<cbx33> i was gonna ask if you had a chance to think about my plugins idea.....
<pygi> Lately, I am always busy, so... :)
<cbx33> having the server and client part?
<pygi> ah, server-client?
<cbx33> yes
<pygi> ergh, you are faster :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> No, but if you mail me I am bound to respond in some time  :)
<cbx33> i just wondered if you thought it was a good idea?
<cbx33> I know how to do it
<cbx33> :p
<pygi> might be good idea, yes
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> you twisted my arm I'll do it
<cbx33> right after I do the pessulus implementation
<pygi> It's always my fault for everything!
<cbx33> but tbh pessulus seems a little non-functional
<cbx33> heheh
<pygi> poke vuntz about it
<cbx33> did he write it?
<pygi> yup
<cbx33> pygi, he seems to be away
<cbx33> hopefully he'll be back later
<pygi> cbx33, he's always away...he'll poke you
<cbx33> hehe
<lucasvo> how can I make my ltsp client use 1024x786 resolution?
<lucasvo> anybody can help?
<cbx33> rodarvus, heheh this is going good
<cbx33> plugin framework done and pessulus integration :D
<cbx33> now it's just the server / client enhanced plugins left
<rodarvus> cbx33, weekend hacking session? :)
<rodarvus> nice.
<cbx33> rodarvus, I'm always hacking I told you that yesterday
<cbx33> well lisa has a tonne of work on from her american bosses and we hade to take a raincheck on a family party
<cbx33> so....I thought.....hehehe....w00t time for some scp hacking
<cbx33> rodarvus, you got a sec?
<rodarvus> sure, go ahead
<LaserJock> arg, no ogra
#edubuntu 2006-08-27
<sbalneav> Evening all
<toddobryan> Is there a howto anywhere for setting up a lab with independent workstations? Something that talks about syncing configs, binaries, accounts, etc?
<toddobryan> I realize thin clients would be much easier, but I don't have a powerful enough server, and the machines are good enough to run on their own.
<sbalneav> toddobryan: Are you talking about simply setting up (n) copies of edubuntu, and having them look all the same?
<toddobryan> That and having them stay in sync.
<toddobryan> If I realize that I need to modify something, I don't want to do it 30 times.
<toddobryan> Like adding a bookmark to the default Firefox or something.
<sbalneav> Simplest to that would be to have the not-too-powerful server be an nfs and ldap server.  That way you'll have shared home directories, and common login authentication.
<toddobryan> OK. That's what I've been leaning toward.
<toddobryan> I also thought about a cron script that rsync large parts of /etc, /usr, etc., on boot. With a command that students could run to do it manually if needed.
<sbalneav> Well, that's not easy, even on a thin client.  Remember: every user has their own home directory, so if you want to automatically add a bookmark to everyone's setup, one way or the other, you'll have a bunch of accounts to set up.  Simplest is to set up a webpage/portal that has the common links, etc, and set everyones homepage to that.
<toddobryan> Is there anything like All Users on Windows, or does that not exist?
<sbalneav> Not really.  The tighter security model for Linux makes that a touger thing to do.
<toddobryan> You're right, though. A web page with all the links is probably the best way to go.
<toddobryan> I can even make it local on the nfs mount.
<toddobryan> I assume I can create a /home/share folder that's world readable, but only-me writable.
<sbalneav> Yup, that's easy enough to do.
<toddobryan> OK. So I guess I should figure this out and make a Wiki page. NonThinClientLab
<bddebian> Hello
<nonickname> anyone know the details about how netbooting works?
<pygi> hello all
<bddebian> Heya pygi
<pygi> hey bddebian, what's up? :)
<bddebian> Trying to mull over some bug fixes. You?
<pygi> libburn,as always :)
<bddebian> You mean you aren't done YET? ;-P
<pygi> bddebian, lol!!
<pygi> bddebian, when we do a laughing session? :P
<bddebian> I laugh at myself daily :-)
<pygi> I mean, but YET is very, very...
<pygi> ehm :)
<pygi> bddebian, you wanna bugs? I have one just for you to fix :)
<bddebian> I can try I suppose
<pygi> bddebian, wow, sec then :)
<pygi> bddebian, http://libburn.pykix.org/ticket/1
<pygi> seems doable?
<bddebian> pygi: I can look but I'm certainly no hacker
<pygi> bddebian, :)
<pygi> bddebian, ok, want something easier?
<pygi> or you wanna work on #1? :)
<bddebian> Do we have the source in Ubuntu?
<pygi> of what? libburn? nop, not yet, but on the wa
<pygi> way*
<bddebian> pygi: Well where can I get the source from? :-)
<pygi> svn co http://libburn-svn.pykix.org/trunk libburn_pykix
<pygi> do that :)
<bddebian> Pulling now
<bddebian> Hmm, OK, where do I start? ;-P
<pygi> bddebian, :)
<pygi> bddebian, what about putting eltorito support into libisofs? that should be easier task
<pygi> you have spec here:
<pygi> http://www.phoenix.com/NR/rdonlyres/98D3219C-9CC9-4DF5-B496-A286D893E36A/0/specscdrom.pdf#search=%22el-torito%20specification%22
<bddebian> Is bug 1 talking about this macro? BURN_DRIVE_WRITING_LEADIN
<pygi> bddebian, nop :)
<pygi> or perhaps it is...I haven't looked into that ticket yet, that's why I'm giving it to you :)
<bddebian> Well the bug is a little cloudy to me, added to the fact that I'm an idiot...
<bddebian> The only place in the code that I see that the LBA is determined/defined is in the TOC_ENTRY_PLBA
<pygi> bddebian, ah, as I said, feel free to choose bugs
<pygi> implementing eltorito support in libisofs shouldnt be too harfd
<pygi> hard*
<pygi> but nevertheless, sorry for bugging, just continue what you was doing :P
<pygi> I'll have to work on it someday anyway :)
<bddebian> pygi: I'd love to help, I'm just kind of stupid :-(
<pygi> bddebian, lol, why constantly saying that :P
<bddebian> Uhm, because it's true?
<pygi> nah
#edubuntu 2007-08-20
<sbalneav> Evening all
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, you around, dude?
<LaserJock> sure am
<sbalneav> Cool.
<sbalneav> I'm starting to get to the point where I'm going to start adding a lot to the handbook over the next few weeks.
<sbalneav> Now that the main development cycle's done.
<sbalneav> Anything you'd like me to keep in mind while I'm adding content?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> not entirely sure
<sbalneav> ok.
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to be able to do things as topics
<sbalneav> Right, that's what I was thinking of, but I don't know what that means in practical terms. I.e., I add things to THIS file instead of THAT one, etc.
<tidalbobo> hay. i have a problem with edubuntu installation on a p3 PC
<tidalbobo> after installing any Educational applicvations will not start. i get message saying that "your computer type is not recognised(i386)"
<LaserJock> well, I don't think that's a big deal right now
<tidalbobo> has any one got this experiance?   need some help pls
<LaserJock> I think it's more keeping it mind while you're writing
<LaserJock> that we need logical chunks
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> that seems like a 64bit/32bit mismatch or something
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I was thinking the other day of having an Edubuntu Bug Squashing Day sometime soon
<sbalneav> It was today.
<sbalneav> I've killed 3 :)
<LaserJock> I noticed
<LaserJock> we've got a lot of LTSP bugs too though
<LaserJock> I'd really like to have our edu apps in good shape for release
<sbalneav> I'm certainly happy to help with any edu apps I can.  Any particularly thorny ones sticking in your craw?
<sbalneav> tidalbobo: What's the output of "uname -a" on your box?
<sbalneav> Gcompris seems to have a lot of bugs.
<sbalneav> "use gcompris on logout".  Man, THAT one needs a bit more info.
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> tidalbobo: Still with us?
<tidalbobo> sbalneav: it was installed from the CD i got from SHIPIT service.
<sbalneav> OK, so, what version did you get? An 64 bit version, or an i386 version?
<tidalbobo> sorry right now i dont have access to the system, but all i did was simple install the CD i got. i presume its the correct one, as the CD says its for x86 intel boxes
<tidalbobo> definityly 32 bit. the cd casing says its for intel pentium.  Also my cpu is detected correcly as P3 coppermine i686.
<sbalneav> OK, so what's the exact error message you're getting, when you try to click on which application?
<tidalbobo> but what makes me wonder is that GNOME is the window manager. for GCompris and Educational suits dont you need to have KDE running?  is this the reaon?
<tidalbobo> sbalneav: let me give u a discription of the situation.
<sbalneav> Please do.
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: you don't need KDE
<tidalbobo> The installation is successful.  I can login and do most of the things. Openoffice runs, all games work etc.  How ever the "educational"  menu is missing.
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: did you use the Desktop CD?
<LaserJock> or wait, nevermind
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: you'll need to get the Classroom Server Addon CD for the educational apps
<tidalbobo> When i go to "add applications", and try to add GCompris or some educational application, i get the error saying that my computer (i386) is not supported.  This happens only for certain applications. Others work fine
<LaserJock> ok, I know the problem then
<LaserJock> easy fix :-)
<tidalbobo> i used the stanalone version. yes, it should be the desk top CD.
<tidalbobo> ;)  u do? wonderfuk
<LaserJock> it's actual the Server CD
<tidalbobo> wonderful.  pardon the typo
<LaserJock> but you did the Workstation install I'm guessing
<tidalbobo> yes.
<LaserJock> OK, and did you have it hooked to the internet while installing?
<tidalbobo> no. i couldnt get the modem to work.  so no internet
<LaserJock> ok, that's the problem
<LaserJock> so is it possible for you to download an .iso somewhere?
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: the problem is that the educational apps aren't shipped on the 1st CD anymore
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: so you need to either download them or get the Classroom Server Addon CD
<sbalneav> tidalbobo: What kind of modem do you have?
<tidalbobo> its a rockwel
<tidalbobo> ok.   if thats the case, can i get the addon CD and install that on top of the existing installation?  then i should ba able to get the applications to work?
<sbalneav> Ah, a winmodem.
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: yes, the Addon CD is for just that
<tidalbobo> grate.  i can do that.  what got me misled was the error message saying that "my computer was not suppotred"  i think ill suggest the error message be changed to refelect the true nature
<tidalbobo> my contribution to edubuntu development
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: yes, I have no idea why that does that
<LaserJock> it's an odd message
<tidalbobo> yes. ill try you recomendation.   then will put a bug/issue on the dev list so that someone can look in to it.  Since edbuntu is targetted at educators, who might not be gurus in linux, some problem like that can easliy defeat them during the installation itself..
<tidalbobo> not a good way to start
<tidalbobo> sbalneav: thank you
<sbalneav> np
<LaserJock> tidalbobo: it works fine unless you don't have internet available during install
<LaserJock> but I kinda think this *has* to be a general Ubuntu issue
<LaserJock> I don't see why it would be edubuntu-specific
<tidalbobo> i think the warning is from the pakage-manager. 1st of all, it does not seem to recongnise my syste. hence the message identifing it as a i386. Am i correct?
<LaserJock> no, I don't think it's really anything like that
<LaserJock> that's the weird part
<LaserJock> It knows your system just fine and that it is i386
<tidalbobo> oh.. then im lost. if thats corerct, why does the message say "not supported" ? mysterious
<LaserJock> yes, that's what I'm saying
<LaserJock> the message doesn't say anything that correct :-)
<LaserJock> the real problem is that you don't have the repositories enabled
<LaserJock> and it's looking for your CD to install the apps
<LaserJock> but a lot of the edu apps aren't on the CD
<tidalbobo> i see.
<LaserJock> but it shouldn't show you apps that you can't install
<LaserJock> I think we need to stick some documentation somewhere about that
<LaserJock> I've seen it at least 3 times in here
<tidalbobo> well if its a thing that keeps on repeating, better to address the issue once and for all.
<tidalbobo> i agree with you.
<LaserJock> I'll have a chat with the Add/Remove Applications guy when I get a chance
<LaserJock> and see what's going on with that
<tidalbobo> sbalneav: thanks
<tidalbobo> will update you on what happens on my box
<sbalneav> Well, late here, and my holidays are over.
<sbalneav> Back to work tomorrow :(
<sbalneav> I'm off to bed.
<sbalneav> Night all!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<LaserJock> ogra, RichEd-1: my CMPC arrived this morning :-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yessir!
<sbalneav> What for can I do you?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, so what are your ideas for documentation
<LaserJock> I was a bit preoccupied the other day
<LaserJock> I'm guessing first thing is to go through the Handbook and "fix" anything
<LaserJock> I know I need to put in new shots for the Addon CD
<sbalneav> Cool.
<sbalneav> Well, I need to add a TON of documentation on LTSP, on all the new features, i.e. scalability support, etc.
<sbalneav> I'd like to have a section on lockdown and desktops using Sabayon and Pessellus
<sbalneav> Maybe list some different network topology strategies for Edubuntu classroom setups. With pictures.
<sbalneav> What's  a good package for drawing network diagrams?  I usually use Dia.  That good enough quality for the handbook?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: that'd probably work fine
<sbalneav> I know we'd like to get some more edu apps documentation in there.
<sbalneav> Is Will still around?
<LaserJock> kinda'ish I think
<LaserJock> he was off surfing for a while ;-)
* sbalneav just discovered folds in vim thanks to ogra
<sbalneav> Who else is contributing to the handbook these days besides you, me and Will?
<ogra> sbalneav, it can get annoying at times
<sbalneav> I love it!
<sbalneav> Meeting now, afk.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: umm, nobody much
<LaserJock> ogra: is there a way to like save the Windows XP image on the CMPC?
<ogra> boot it as ltsp client and dd the disk to an image from commandline ?
<LaserJock> have you tried that before? that sounds that might work ok
<ogra> i actually never tried it with XP
<ogra> but it worked with the metasys image i have
<ogra> (didnt try to restore any of the others yet)
<LaserJock> I've got my CMPC here at the lab connected to the uni VPN, quite interesting
<LaserJock> but of course I want to blow away Windows and get something better on there
<LaserJock> ogra: do you dd images over to get *buntu on there?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> even thoug i could just cp them on a partition as well
<ogra> as image files
<LaserJock> so do you boot it as a thin client over a patch cable?
<ogra> right
<ogra> then i log in on console and fiddle with what i like
<LaserJock> stupid LTSP question, but how do you tell it where the "hard drive" is?
<LaserJock> since you're working on the server
<ogra> i'm not
<ogra> i'm logging in locally :)
<ogra> and use /dev/sdb :)
<LaserJock> ohhhh
<ogra> or was it sdc ?
<LaserJock> not sda?
<ogra> not here afair
<ogra> i must admit i havent booted the thing since some weeks now
<ogra> anyway, i was gone already ... damned nightly ad-hoc meetings ...
* ogra is off again
#edubuntu 2007-08-21
<sbalneav> Evening all
* boyam salutes sbalneav 
<LaserJock> hmm, any ltspers awake over here?
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> hello sbalneav!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1cos(0)!11
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<boyam> hi there, does anyone know if bug 38410 listed on launchpad has been transferred over to sabayon yet?  I banged my head against the wall on this issue until I found the workaround listed in the bug as of 8/17/2007.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 38410 in sabayon "sabayon blocks ssh based ltsp logins if not user profiles are created" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/38410
<boyam> yea yea allo knowing ubotu...i know you knew about it....smartalic..lol
<sbalneav> Not sure if it's been transferred over or not.
<sbalneav> That was one of my little inspiriations.
<sbalneav> I'll check with ogra and see if we can get it in.
<sbalneav> What's really needed is for Sabayon to return different levels of error code, so that we can detect the difference between a missing profile, and a serious error.
<boyam> sbalneav, i agree...and i do realize Sabayon is still under development...those guys have done a heck of a job....works well...when it works....
<boyam> thanks sbalneav
<sbalneav> boyam: If there were more hours in the day, and maybe once we get all the bling in that we want in ltsp5, I might take up developing on Sabayon, since it's a fairly closely related technology to ltsp, but for now, I just don't have the time.
<boyam> sbalneav, understandable...i like to sleep as well....lol
<ogra> sbalneav, do you have any clue where to get a list with the oss drivers that are still needed for some clients ? ubuntu disabled all oss stuff and i want it re enabled but the kernel team needs a list ... i have kahlua on it so far ...
<ogra> the sis7019 source is sadly not licensed at all ... else i'd get it in :/
<sbalneav> Geez, I really don't know.  Sound was never really my thing.  Wonder if jammcq's around, he may know, see if he knows.
<sbalneav> Hold on, I'll phone him
<ogra> not around
<ogra> its not that urgent :)
<ogra> i just want it solved before release :)
<sbalneav> Hey, strike while the iron is hot.
<effie_jayx> ogra,  ping
<ogra> effie_jayx, pong
<effie_jayx> ogra,  Hi, Iam from venezuela. and there is a slight chance that classmate pc's come very soon. how is edubuntu working with the Classmate PC's
<sbalneav> Left him a message on the telly-phone.
<JanetFLorida> can anyone tell me how to increase swap for LTSP clients?
<ogra> JanetFLorida, create the file /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf on the server
<ogra> JanetFLorida, put SIZE=64 in there for 64MB swap per client ...
<JanetFLorida> do i need to reboot to take effect? I started another client, /tmp/file* don't show any new swap files, all old 32mb's
<ogra> did you properly shut down from ldm ? it shoul have deleted the old file then during shutdown
<ogra> i'm not sure it creates a new one if an old one exists
<effie_jayx> ogra,  could you tell me if it is too dificult to install it. I belong to el LoCo Team in venezuela and we are trying to look at edubuntu as a platform for education there
<effie_jayx> ?
<ogra> effie_jayx, followig the udb devicde installation instructions from the wiki should work
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<effie_jayx> ogra, about hardware... it is intel
<effie_jayx> so can we expect the drivers to just work?
<ogra> no
<effie_jayx> I see
<ogra> the wireless driver wont work (not intel) and suspend/resume wont
<effie_jayx> the wireless is not intel?
<ogra> rt73 from ralink
<ogra> its cheaper i guess :P
<effie_jayx> ogra, is it hard to get it to work?
<effie_jayx> use windows drivers? or the like?
<ogra> you can compile the module from sourceforge but wont have network-manager support ...
<ogra> anyway, i have to go now ...
<effie_jayx> ogra,  thanks for the insight
<LaserJock> OK, so I'm trying to set up my laptop as an LTSP server for my CMPC
<LaserJock> however, it appears it can't find the dhcp server
<LaserJock> I'm just running it via a patch cable so I would've thought it would "just work"
<LaserJock> ogra: you around buddy? :-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: pingy pingy
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Pong.  Back from lunch
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm trying to set up my laptop as an LTSP server
<sbalneav> Cool
<LaserJock> sbalneav: just using a patch cable to go from the laptop eth0 to the "thin client"
<sbalneav> Does your laptop have gigabit network card?
<LaserJock> I installed ltsp and ran the ltsp-build-client or whatever itis
<LaserJock> but the TC doesn't see the dhcp server on the laptop
<sbalneav> Whoa, what was that
<sbalneav> Anyway, LaserJock, here's the question:
<sbalneav> Are yoy using a REGULAR patch cable, or a crossover cable?
<LaserJock> just a chunk of cat5
<sbalneav> If you have a gige card in your laptop, you can use a regular.
<sbalneav> if it's only a 100 meg lan card, you'll need a crossover.
<LaserJock> ?
<sbalneav> either that, or a small switch to put in between the two
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure my laptop doesn't have a gige card
<sbalneav> the gig ethernet cards have, built into them, the circuitry to reverse the send/recieve lines, so you can use a straight thru cable.
<sbalneav> 100 meg doesn't
<sbalneav> ok, then you need a crossover cable.
<sbalneav> If you were here, I could make you one in 5 minutes. :)
<LaserJock> any old store like Best Buy should have a crossover cable?
<sbalneav> Yeah.
<sbalneav> They should have it.
<LaserJock> my wireless router would work but it's already got a dhcp server running on it
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> Having a xover cable's a good thing to have in your arsenal anyway.  Well worth the investment.
<sbalneav> Buy a long one.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you gonna be around this evening?
<sbalneav> I will be!
<LaserJock> k, I'm gonna swing by Best Buy on the way to work and then this evening I'll give it a go
<LaserJock> this ClassmatePC is a lot of fun, but I need to get Windows off
<sbalneav> ogra: Still around?  I've got the security problem licked, I think.  I'll test tonight.
<sbalneav> the ltspfs-nodm tree's where I'm doing my work.  Once everything's going ok, I'll port all the changes there over to the mainline ltspfs tree.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I found a 14 ft. crossover at CompUSA for $15
<LaserJock> sbalneav: Best Buy wanted $22 for a 7 ft. "Geek Squad" crossover cable
<sbalneav> There you go!  Excellent
<LaserJock> so tonight we'll see if that works
<LaserJock> what I did was set up eth0 as 192.168.0.1
<LaserJock> and used that in the dhcpd.conf
<LaserJock> so I'm guessing that *should* work
<sbalneav> Should, yeah
<LaserJock> ogra: anything I can do for Tribe 5?
<sbalneav> Headin' home, be on later
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: yes, I did
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  I talked to ogr a a little while ago. thanks for the heads up. there is a chance that my government might get some
<effie_jayx> 40 f them are comming in october and we wanted to see or talk to someone who has used ubuntu on them
<LaserJock> cool
<effie_jayx> INTEL is planning to bring them with a closed source linux distro...
<LaserJock> yeah, metasys or something like that
<effie_jayx> actually there is one called Rxart
<effie_jayx> argentinian
<effie_jayx> the whole Free software comunity is in uproar
<effie_jayx> here in venezuela. and we are proposing Ubuntu or any other linux distro that is FREE as in freedom
<effie_jayx> even though it is intel the one who decides
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  the closed source Linux distributor in argentina claims that getting his linux to work was a pain  and that he had to do some "Low level programing to get it to work"
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: well, eventually there will be an *buntu for the classmatepc
<LaserJock> effie_jayx: ogra got it pretty much working in a couple days
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  in the time being there is a way for installing it
<effie_jayx> LaserJock,  and good thing is there is a nationa compani that already installs Ubuntu and Guadalinux
<LaserJock> right now I've got Window XP on mine, that's what they shipped it with
<LaserJock> but it's kinda buggy
<modster78> heloo
<LaserJock> modster78: hi
<modster78> any one point me to a guide for runin local apps on ltsp?
<LaserJock> modster78: I'm not sure that we have one, you might ask #ltsp though
<modster78> ok thx im jst stuck on how to get this sort of thing going
#edubuntu 2007-08-22
<monteslu_> how do i reset the keyboard setup for all users to be a standard US keyboard?
<monteslu_> my quotes currently look like this  instead of  " and I have to hit the key twice to get it.
<wantok> um. shift+key?
<monteslu_> no, the apostrophe is without shift+, but that broken too btw
<monteslu_> notice the funny  ?
<wantok> ah
<wantok> hehe
<wantok> do you know what keymap you have?
<monteslu_> no idea, nor how to fix it.
* wantok isnt sure if he can help for all users
<wantok> i think its a per user setting.
<monteslu_> im on edubuntu 7.04
<monteslu_> I guess I chose wrong doing the initial server install
<wantok> was there a keyboard setting during install?
<monteslu_> it something system wide
<monteslu_> yeah, it asked me to type in keys and it would guess which layout it had
<monteslu_> bad move
<monteslu_> I should have said no and just picked US
<monteslu_> maybe it something in xorg
* wantok fires up a terminal
<wantok> is this just a terminal thing, or system wide?
<monteslu_> system wide
<LaserJock> monteslu: what does env| grep LANG give you?
<monteslu_> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<LaserJock> hmm, I know how to do it for an individual user
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how it's done system wide
<monteslu_> it cool. Il work on it more tonight. bbl
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav!!
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I've been waiting for you, mwuahahaha
<sbalneav> :)
<LaserJock> ok, so crossover cable worked
<LaserJock> but it can't find tftp
<sbalneav> Excellent.
<LaserJock> I get a timeout
<sbalneav> ok, well, first things first.
<sbalneav> What's your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file look like, and what's the ip address of your fixed interface?
<LaserJock> ok, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34606/
<LaserJock> and my eth0 is 192.168.0.1
<sbalneav> ok, looks fine.
<sbalneav> netstat -an | grep :69
<LaserJock> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:695             0.0.0.0:*
<LaserJock> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:69              0.0.0.0:*
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> Can't find tftp. or can't find the FILE it needs via tftp?
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<LaserJock> so I get dhcp
<LaserJock> TFTP ....
<LaserJock> PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout
<sbalneav> You running gutsy?
<LaserJock> Feisty
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> What's the client?
<LaserJock> ClassmatePC
<sbalneav> That's pretty standard.
<sbalneav> got stuff in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp?
<LaserJock> in i386/ yeah
<sbalneav> k
<LaserJock> I see pxelinux.0
<LaserJock> and kernel stuff
<sbalneav> can you paste the result of ifconfig eth<whatever>
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34610/
<sbalneav> seems ok
<sbalneav> just on the off chance something's amiss
<sbalneav> invoke-rc.d openbsd-inetd restart
<LaserJock> no help :(
<LaserJock> is there anything special I need to do because I'm using Ubuntu and not Edubuntu?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> dpkg -l | grep tftp
<LaserJock> ii  tftpd-hpa                                  0.43-1ubuntu2                              HPA's tftp server
<sbalneav> that's ok
<sbalneav> lets do this.  Add the line:
<sbalneav> next-server 192.168.0.1
<LaserJock> in dhcpd.conf?
<sbalneav> after the "option subnetmask"
<sbalneav> in dhcpd.conf
<sbalneav> then restart
<sbalneav> invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
<LaserJock> nope :/
<sbalneav> Wierd.
<sbalneav> Humour me.
<sbalneav> change the ip address of the fixed interface to 192.168.0.254
<sbalneav> and remove the next-server line.
<sbalneav> and restart dhcpd again
<LaserJock> change the actual interface? not just in dhcpd.conf
<sbalneav> yes
<LaserJock> now, what about the gateway?
<sbalneav> I'm wondering if something's hardcoded somewhere.
<sbalneav> doesn't matter.
<LaserJock> I wasn't sure what to do with the gateway
<sbalneav> You're not going to be routing through anywhere.
<LaserJock> trying
<LaserJock> nope
<LaserJock> sam thing
<LaserJock> hmm, my other interface wouldn't be interfering would it?
<sbalneav> what's the ip address of the other interface?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: do you remember ogra having any problems with netbooting his Classmate?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> and I've netbooted mine.
<sbalneav> they should work fine.
<LaserJock> my other interface is on 192.168.1.
<sbalneav> If it's on .1, that should be fine.
<sbalneav> anything in /var/log/daemon.log, or messages?
<LaserJock> in messages ther's a lot of eth0: link down
<LaserJock> eth0: link up
<LaserJock> etc.
<LaserJock> ohhhhhhhh!!!!
<LaserJock> I'm an idiot!!!
<LaserJock> I allow only 192.168.1.* in /etc/hosts.allow
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> Well, nonstandard config, eh.
<sbalneav> 20 raps on the knuckles for YOU! :)
<LaserJock>  log/daemon.log was full of tftp saying connection refused
<LaserJock> well, I've been broken into before, I've tried to tighten the ship
<sbalneav> The great thing about Unix/Linux in geneal is, if there's something wrong, you can work through it/check in a log/SOMETHING, and find the answer.
<sbalneav> On windows, you'dve just got a bluescreen, and that's that.
<LaserJock> yep, exactly
<LaserJock> daemon.log told me exactly what the problem was
<sbalneav> Man, I've done a TON of updates today.
<sbalneav> Fixed the security problem in ltspfs
<sbalneav> simplified a ton of code.
<sbalneav> cleaned up jetpipe some more
<sbalneav> eliminated about 5 crufty files out of the tree
<sbalneav> I is MOTORING.
<sbalneav> just testing stuff now.
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> \o/ \o/ \o/
* LaserJock hugs sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Woooooorkin?
<LaserJock> it's .... alive!!!
<sbalneav> Alive's always good.
<sbalneav> Careful, once you get bitten by the thin client bug...
<LaserJock> ldm!
* LaserJock hugs ldm
<sbalneav> That's the OLD ldm
<sbalneav> Wait'll you see the NEW ldm
<LaserJock> ok, now when go to a console
<LaserJock> can I log in locally to the client
<LaserJock> or is logging in on the server?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ^^
<sbalneav> Which, a character console on the terminal?
<sbalneav> alt-f1 you mean?
<LaserJock> alt-f1
<sbalneav> That would be on the client, and there's no logins defined there.
<sbalneav> you'd have to set a root password in the chroot
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> passwd
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well see if that works
<LaserJock> sweet yeah
<sbalneav> Man, what a night.
<sbalneav> Heading to bed.
<sbalneav> night
<LaserJock> anybody know where ldm gets it xsession info?
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<jsgotangco> hi
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock
<highvoltage> RichEd-2: are you here at govtech? sabdfl and mdz are giving real nice talks
<LaserJock> highvoltage: govtech?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: oh, right. govtech is an expo for technology in local government
<highvoltage> people who decide things in government visit govtech and look at new technologies that government can use. there's a big open source awareness here this year.
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> I wonder if they do anything like that here for state and local governments
<zsh> highvoltage, hi, for which government is this govtech?
<highvoltage> zsh: south african
<RichEd> hello highvoltage
<RichEd> hey LaserJock got your toy I see :)\
<wantok> hi RichEd
<highvoltage> hey RichEd
<wantok> highvoltage, h
<wantok> hi
<zsh> hi
<highvoltage> hi wantok
<RichEd> mr goetz ... another nick change ?
<RichEd> highvoltage: where is govtech happening ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: CTICC
<wantok> RichEd, only for a few days.
<RichEd> highvoltage: is mdz here as well ? in cape town ?
<highvoltage> RichEd: he is indeed, he's speeking in the Audi Auditorium atm
<highvoltage> mark gave a keynote speech just before
<RichEd> and did it go down well ?
* RichEd looks for a web link
<LaserJock> RichEd: yes yes, I've showed it off to my boss and labmates
<LaserJock> RichEd: they love the notetaking thingy
<RichEd> LaserJock: and were they impressed with the device / price etc as a whole ?
<LaserJock> well, "I can't type on this thing"
<LaserJock> and some of the "Why wouldn't I just buy a real laptop"
<RichEd> "the fatty finger syndrome ?"
<LaserJock> but then I discussed the educational aspect
<LaserJock> not as a personal laptop for professors ;-)
<LaserJock> it's very light and has a long battery life
<LaserJock> right now I basically can go all day on a charge
<LaserJock> since I'm not doing a lot with it
<LaserJock> I've been testing out the Windows install they're using
<LaserJock> while trying to get my LTSP setup going so I can start working on putting Edubuntu on it
<LaserJock> I don't think they're going to be able to do much with Windows until they get bigger drives
<RichEd> LaserJock: you can get an image from oliver ...
<LaserJock> doing much of anything cause it to run out of memory
<LaserJock> then bad things start happening
<LaserJock> they put MS Office 2003 on it (which surprised me) but I'm not sure how you'd use it for much
<LaserJock> RichEd: yes, I need to
<zsh> of which device are you speaking?
<RichEd> zsh: the intel classmate PC
<LaserJock> Intel ClassmatePC
<LaserJock> it definitely seems speedy enough
<zsh> and how is it compared to the olpc?
<LaserJock> I don't have an olpc to specifically compare
<LaserJock> but I imagine one of the big things is that the classmate runs a regular OS
<LaserJock> so Windows XP, Madriva-derived, SUSE-derive, and Ubuntu/Edubuntu
<zsh> I had the chance to try a olpc for 10 minutes
<zsh> has the classmate a touchscreen?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> at least not this version
<LaserJock> it's a 7" 800x480 screen
<LaserJock> Celeron M 900MHz processor
<LaserJock> 2GB flash drive
<LaserJock> 256MB RAM
<LaserJock> intel graphics, raylink wireless
<RichEd> http://www.classmatepc.com/ <- zsh
<zsh> thx
<LaserJock> on the app level I think the screen resolution is the killer
<LaserJock> on Windows they've got a fairly nice app that somehow zooms/compresses the screen so 1024x768 fits
<LaserJock> or something like that
<zsh> "approximately 4 hours Usage" hmm
<LaserJock> and it takes ~ 2hrs to charge back up
<zsh> can I set a dummy audio device in pulseaudio?
<zsh> because I have no audiodevice on my ltsp-server and flash crashes sometimes firefox
<zsh> so I think a dummy audio device would solve the problem
<pawan1234> hi
<pawan> hi
<pawan> how to install edubuntu
<RichEd> pawan
<pawan> yes
<RichEd> just insert the CD and boot
<pawan> cant it be used as a live cd
<RichEd> decide if you want to dual boot (keep old partition) or complete install
<RichEd> pawan ... you'll need to check that ... what CD version do you have
<pawan> i have edubuntu 7.04 for pc and server
<pawan> i have currently installed ubuntu windows xp and windows 2008 server on my pc
<pawan> now i am going to install edubuntu
<pawan> hello
<pawan> what type of partition to use for edubuntu
<zsh> pawan, what to you mean with "type"?
<pawan> ext3 ext2
<zsh> pawan, take ext3
<pawan> how much space to allocate
<zsh> pawan, for a default install?
<pawan> yes
<zsh> how much do you have?
<pawan> 3.3 GB
<zsh> want you use ltsp?
<pawan> whats that
<pawan> !itsp
<zsh> the thinclient setup
<pawan> ok
<zsh> I guess not
<zsh> 3.3 gb should be enough
<zsh> for the default install
<pawan> how much space to allocate for the root and swap
<zsh> you can use your swap partition from ubuntu
<pawan> is it
<zsh> btw, if you have ubuntu, why to you want install edubuntu?
<pawan> just to have a look at some new features
<zsh> is your ubuntu also feisty?
<pawan> yes feisty 7.04
<zsh> you get the edubuntu feisty stuff with "sudo aptitude install edubuntu-desktop"
<pawan> no need to install edubuntu
<zsh> no
<zsh> ohh
<zsh> what have I done?
<zsh> which app/script creates: .asoundrc.asoundconf?
<zsh> how can I file a bug against flashplugin-nonfree?
<ogra> zsh, whats your issue ?
<ogra> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+filebug BTW)
<zsh> I have on my feisty ltsp-server no soundcard and I watch a youtuby video
<zsh> firefox crash at the end of the video
<ogra> ouch
<zsh> if I have:  pcm.!default { type null }
<zsh> ctl.!default { type null }
<ogra> unlikely we can do anything about that but file izt anyway
<zsh> as asound.conf it don't crashed
<ogra> its likely the plugin uitself thats crashing
<zsh> I think so
<zsh> but with this asoundrc I get "..to many files open on /dev/null" but firefox/flashplugin don't crashes
<ogra> and if you need to set sound to the null device its likely the old bug that flash doesnt close its device sockets (which the libflashsupport package works around, but it doesnt fix the real issue)
<zsh> hmm, it seems so
<ogra> you have libflashsupport installed i assume ?
<ogra> (the one from the FAQ page)
<zsh> no
<zsh> from which?
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFAQ
<ogra> or ... https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFAQ as you like
<zsh> wow, every week I find new edubuntu docs
<ogra> yeah ... they are pretty badly organized
<ogra> but there is work going on constantly, so eventually we'll have them all in the edubuntu handbook
<zsh> ogra, this would be great
<zsh> ogra, I only have to install this deb?
<ogra> yes, on the server
<ogra> it will add a layer that circumvents the bug in flash ...
<ogra> but note that package isnt supported and not packaged very well either
<zsh> ok
<zsh> thx
<zsh> ogra, and do you know if it is possible to add the nxclient-screen script?
<ogra> i want to talk with Gadi before so we dont produce duplicated work ... i havent met him yet
<zsh> who is gadi?
<ogra> one guy from #ltsp who cares for the screen scripts ...
<zsh> ok
<zsh> we use the script, I told you
<zsh> only 1 small bug so far, the nxclient starts a second time
<zsh> so on login, you have to cancel the 2. nxclient
<zsh> I don't know why I can't fix this
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === in 10 mins
<zsh> RichEd, is the meeting open for everyone?
<ogra> yes
<RichEd> always :)
<zsh> ok, I will listen
<zsh> bye, I have to go
<nosrednaekim> ogra: hey ogra, are you around?
<ogra> nosrednaekim, in the edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting atm
<nosrednaekim> ogra: ok.... when is that finished?I have to talk to you.
<ogra> just talk then but dont ecxpect immediate answers :)
<nosrednaekim> ogra: ah ok :) I asked riddell about his offer to mentor someone porting the Thin Client Manager to Qt, and he said to talk to you. Not neccesarily for mentorship, but for how it is coming along I guess.
<ogra> ah, well, the code is a mess, i'm just starting to try to get it sorted so it works again in gutsy ... but pete did at least do a proper frontend/backend split so adding a QT gui instead of thin-client-manager-gnome shouldnt be problematic
<nosrednaekim> ogra: So there are a lot of problems with the backend, but making a QT4 frontend shouldn't affect that?
<ogra> well, lots of probs is to much ... it used to work and needs adjustments for the new ldm ...
<ogra> the code is in very bad shape thats the prob ...
<ogra> i'm missing the spare week to go through it and clean it up from the ground up
<nosrednaekim> So would now be the best time to write a frontend, or should I wait till you have that spare week?
<ogra> but if you use the communication layers the studentcontrolpanel.py module provides you should be fine for frontend stuff
<ogra> well, you should wait until you see the next upload (saying that i fixed userlist polling)
<nosrednaekim> ok, thats great.
<ogra> without that being fixed you woont get the basic list of users to work with in your gui+
<nosrednaekim> alrighty... I suppose I'll need a full thin client set up. To you have a tutorial handy?
<nosrednaekim> ogra: ^^
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<ogra> or use the edubuntu server Cd on a system with two NICs, it will set up everything automativcally
<nosrednaekim> ogra: :( I don't have a system with two NICs. In fact, I don't have any computer that I could try it on if it requires a dedicated server.
<ogra> it doesnt
<ogra> its just esier than manually setting it up
<nosrednaekim> ogra: looks like I'm manually setting it up. Thanks.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> hi sbalneav :)
<sbalneav> Hey there RichEd!
<moquist> got a weird TC auth/session/login problem.
<RichEd> hi moquist ...
<moquist> I've got two servers (they belong to a client) and one allows TC logins, the other does not
<moquist> RichEd: hey
<moquist> RichEd: good news. we're going Edubuntu across the board. :) :) :) :-D
<RichEd> ogra asked if you had any status answers on moodle for gutsy ?
<RichEd> moquist: \o/
<moquist> RichEd: mysql is going, need to add postgresql; I've heard from pitti on that and just need to sit down to figure it out/do it
<moquist> I've got a package in REVU
<moquist> (since the server came back up)
<ogra> moquist, re-uploaded ?
<moquist> I don't think anybody's REVUed it yet, though...
<moquist> ogra: yes, re-uploaded (yesterday, once I realized REVU was back)
<ogra> cool !
<moquist> anyhow,  here are two LDM logs, where one works and one doesn't. if somebody could take a glance at it I'd appreciate any advice:
<moquist> http://rafb.net/p/DwFFJD33.html
<moquist> http://rafb.net/p/55RGWo71.html
<moquist> I cranked the ldm ssh logging up with -vvv
<moquist> the user(s) I'm testing work fine on the server
<sbalneav> What happens on login?
<moquist> /var/log/auth.log looks normal on both servers (i.e., pam_winbind fails ('cuz I'm not testing a Winders(TM) user) and then ssh auth succeeds)
<moquist> sbalneav: can you be more specific?
<ogra> teh only intresting log is ~/.xsession-errors
<moquist> on the TC I see the spinning wheel and then X restarts
<moquist> ogra: Oh... I'll grab that, then. :p
* moquist thought ldm.log was pretty interesting...
<moquist> (in general)
<sbalneav> Like, does the greeter come up at all, or do they log in and it restarts, etc.
<ogra> well thats about the ssh probs ... usually you will have session probs oif one login works and the oither doesnt
<moquist> sbalneav: ah. yep, the greeter looks fine, I enter un/pw, [the server auth.log shows that authentication succeeded, ldm.log on the client shows that we've sent the ssh command, ldm.log shows that the server has closed the connection] , then X restarts and I get a fresh greeter
<moquist> ogra: right. makes sense.
<sbalneav> yeah, it's something on the server side.
<moquist> so the .xsession-errors file I want lives server side?
* moquist checks
<ogra> right
<ogra> in the users home
* moquist nods
<moquist> No profile for user 'moquist' found
* moquist scratches head
<moquist> not sure that's the problem
<moquist> I'll have to log back out of this TC to check
<monteslu> moquist, that's what happened to me until I put the ssh keys from the second edubuntu server onto the server that the client was booting from... but it's probably something totally different :)
<moquist> yeah, in my scenario I've stopped dhcp on the other server so I know the TC has the right host keys
<monteslu> i did the same
<monteslu> only one dhcp server, but two ldm servers
<moquist> well, I meant during testing.
<monteslu> oh, right
<moquist> long term I'll have two dhcp servers
<moquist> so we'll have to copy the ssh keys over
<ogra> moquist, uninstall sabayon
<ogra> or add the user to a profile, then it will work
<ogra> thats bug 38410 btw
<moquist> ogra: awesome. thanks.
<highvoltage> heh, it's nice having Burgundavia here, he's doing all my work :)
<ogra> highvoltage, so you are invaded bycanadian burgers ?
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, although only one of them is here at the moment (the loud one)
<highvoltage> (here being the govtech expo)
<highvoltage> madpilot is trying to get a local pilot license so that he can fly here. canadians have way too much money :)
<ogra> heh
<Riddell> ogra: merging your seeds, do you want tangerine-icon-theme?
<sonjag> I have edubuntu fiesty installed at a school, and would like to be able to play shockwave games on ltsp clients. Is this possible? I read on the restricted formats page that it's not supported. Any workaround?
<ogra> Riddell, hmm, we dont use it, is that the new ubuntu default ?
<ogra> sonjag, ask adobe to provide shockwave for linix :)
<ogra> *linux
<ogra> there is no linux version at all ...
<sonjag> So they have flash but not shockwave? Bummer!
<Riddell> ogra: dunno, you'd have to ask dholbach, I'll leave it out
<ogra> Riddell, ok ... i assume it wouldnt do any harm beyond eating CD space ... we use gartoon anyway so its not important to have for edubuntu
<LaserJock> ogra: ping
<ogra> LaserJock, about to leave, whats up ?
<LaserJock> ogra: I just wondered if you had an Edubuntu image for CMPC available
<LaserJock> or could make one available somewhere for me
<LaserJock> I got LTSP working and dd'd the existing WIndows
<boyam> If I convert edubuntu to ubuntu CE are there any ltsp gotchas I need to be aware of....such as tftp being blocked once dansguardian is installed and running...is it pretty straight forward?
<LaserJock> boyam: dansguardian is pretty tough to figure out sometimes from what I've seen on the forums
<LaserJock> sometimes you get no network at all
<LaserJock> but I suppose you could try it and see :-)
<LaserJock> boyam: are you wanting dansguardian specifically?
<boyam> LaserJock: ouch...no network defeats ltsp's purpose...
<LaserJock> well, I'm not saying that's the way it always happens
<LaserJock> but I've seen several cases where people lose their network after installing dansguardian
<LaserJock> but I don't think there's an inherent reason why it shouldn't work
<LaserJock> I'd think especially if you've got 2 nics and are separating LTSP network from outside internet
<boyam> LaserJock, not exactly ...i saw ubuntu CE was out there so I didn't want to reinvent the wheel if it's already been done
<LaserJock> boyam: well, I can't give a resounding endorsement of CE, but I think you can turn dansguardian off after installing it
<boyam> LaserJock, I'll look into it and give it a go.....
<boyam> thanks
<LaserJock> wow. the Edubuntu meeting this morning was nice and short
<jollis> I am having problems with the gnome settings daemon on login to the server
<jollis> I have searched google an no good replies
<jollis> Any thoughts?
<sbalneav> jollis: What trouble are you having?
<jollis> won't login, frozen
<jollis> it also takes a long time to get to the error screen
<sbalneav> This happening for all users, or just for one?
<sbalneav> When the user is logged out, make sure there are no processes running as that user,
<sbalneav> and rm -rf /tmp/gconfd-user
<sbalneav> ie, my username is sbalneav, so rm -rf /tmp/gconfd-sbalneav
<jollis> I will try another user, and your suggestions and get back with you
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so, I got ltsp working great, was able to dd the existing Windows partition over to my laptop as a backup
<sbalneav> Cool!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I logged in via ldm to see what all the LTSP hubbub is all about
<LaserJock> it's quite amazing
<LaserJock> only thing is that hit pegs my laptops CPU
<LaserJock> and one time it overheated it and it shutdown
<sbalneav> That's due to the ssh encryption of everything over the wire.
<LaserJock> for just 1 client should it be *that* CPU intesive?
<sbalneav> Shouldn't.  I'd check your laptop.  It'll be dust-clogged somehow.
<sbalneav> I run 40 clients off of one server.  this one:
<LaserJock> I've recently dusted it out
<LaserJock> I does run hot, especially in this weather
<LaserJock> but like literally, the CPU was pegged
<LaserJock> from the moment I logged in to LDM
<sbalneav> sputnik:  1.46
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> odd.
<LaserJock> I mean, it was worse than compiling from source or something like that
<sbalneav> Got anything whacky animated on your desktop, or were you also logged in on the laptop as the same user?
<LaserJock> I was logged in as the same user on the laptop
<sbalneav> ahhh
<sbalneav> yeah.
<sbalneav> Gnome doesn't like more than one person logged in at a time.
<sbalneav> A problem we need to get gnome to fix, exentually.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: so that'll account for the CPU usage?
<sbalneav> yeah, gconf gets all whacky, starts sucking air.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> I was going to create a separate user for it anyway, just thought I'd give it a go while I was there
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I was actually surprised how fast bootup and login is
<LaserJock> I was expecting a long wait from all horror stories you guys had at Sevilla ;-)
<sbalneav> Well, there's kindof a line you cross at about 700 mhz
<LaserJock> I can't imagine how fast the new ltsp is going to be
<LaserJock> I see
<sbalneav> if you're BELOW 700 mhz, things start getting exponentially slower everytime you drop 100 mhz
<sbalneav> if you're above 700mhz, things don't get much faster, really.
<LaserJock> what speed is the average TC on the market today?
<sbalneav> The problem is: ltsp caters to a LOT of older slower hardware.
<LaserJock> sure
<sbalneav> Well, in the $300 range, it's about 650-700 megs, so they're ok
<LaserJock> that's a pretty penny if you've got to do a whole lab
<LaserJock> I suppose that's why you see a lot of PIIs and PIIIs used
<sbalneav> Well, the box jammcq had was like a $100 box.
<sbalneav> The problem with those is: they're like 250 mhz.
<sbalneav> So they were painful.
<LaserJock> heh, makes this CMPC look like a very cheap TC
<sbalneav> But now, mine boots in under 90 seconds.  With ltsp 4.2, they booted in 42 seconds, but ltsp 4.2 was so finely tuned, and we'll never get quite that level of ability to tweak startup scripts in ltsp5.  But, in my view, 90 seconds isn't that long, and a perfectly acceptible wait.
<sbalneav> Especially since, once it's booted, it's just as fast, performance wise, as ltsp4.2
<LaserJock> sure
<jollis> has anyone encountered a NFS over TCP not available issue?
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't get how https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/48402 is an Edubuntu bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 48402 in edubuntu-meta "Gnome WEP key hex entry '0' parsed to 'o'" [Medium,New] 
<LaserJock> oh ubotu is in here
<jollis> this issue occurs and stops clients from booting (NFS over TCP error)
#edubuntu 2007-08-23
<nosrednaekim> ogra: hey remember me? I've been doing some research on thin clients, and I don't have the hardware to do it. Is there any other way to test thin-client-manager? would it work between VM's?
<monteslu> no reason it shouldn't work in VMs
<nosrednaekim> monteslu: like from one VM running the server to another VM running the client?
<monteslu> you can even have a VM pxe boot on a host only network
<monteslu> nosrednaekim, exactly
<nosrednaekim> monteslu: meaning I could make my VM host the ltsp host?
<monteslu> you could do that too :)
<monteslu> but I'd just have the host as whatever, an make the ltsp server and client different vms
<nosrednaekim> monteslu: yeah.. ok, probably safer that way.
<monteslu> just make sure that the server and client are on the same virtual network
<monteslu> and give each vm only one virtual NIC
<nosrednaekim> yeah... i'm going to have to read up on VM networking :)
<monteslu> neat things you can do with it
<monteslu> the simplest is probably just the default "bridged"
<monteslu> that way your host can talk to the VMs on the same network.
<monteslu> and make sure you don't have a different DHCP server running when fire it all up
<nosrednaekim> heh... I'm totally confused... I'll do a bit of reading and come back if I have any problems ;)
<monteslu> I'll be around :)
<monteslu> here or in #ltsp, and I know jammcq in #ltsp has done stuff with vmware as well
<nosrednaekim> thanks.
<nosrednaekim> ok.
<cje> hi, does anyone here have any experience using Adobe Shockwave on Edubuntu?  I am a volunteer supporting a public middle school in San Francisco with FOSS.  We are getting ready for the new school year, and one of the teachers would like to use this site:  http://www.explorelearning.com .  Thanks in advance.
<LaserJock> sbalneav!!!
<sbalneav> Evening!
<LaserJock> it's running great
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out the resolution
<LaserJock> 640x480 is a bit painful
<sbalneav> So... thin client.  Kinda growing on you. eh?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it's using like no CPU now
<LaserJock> and it runs so fast on the Classmate
<sbalneav> Back
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | please help testing the tibe5 isos: https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/isotesting/build/Edubuntu
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<sbalneav> Goooooood morning everyone!
<joebaker> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning!
<joebaker> Which Edubuntu Tribe 5 iso image should I test
<ogra> joebaker, follow the link in the topic
<ogra> the isos themselves are at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<joebaker> I suppose the most important install path is the server and server add-on since
<joebaker> people without broadband connections would be solely dependent on the combination
<joebaker> of these two CDs.
<ogra> right
<ogra> even only the server ...
<ogra> addon didnt change since last tribe ...
<ogra> even having regression testing might be good thats no high prio
* Riddell politely waits for edubuntu test results
<Riddell> ogra: ETA for test results?
<ogra> heh, just pinged in -devel
<LaserJock> RichEd-1: alive? :-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you're looking for patches for gnome-screensaver?
<sbalneav> Yes!
<sbalneav> Do you have launchpad-fu?
<LaserJock> it's not a launchpad thing, I don't think anyway
<sbalneav> They're patches that ogra applied
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I think what you want to do is grab the source package
<LaserJock> and look in debian/patches/
<sbalneav> Hmm, have to do it for gutsy then, my home box.
<LaserJock> I see 03_fix_ltsp-fading.patch
<LaserJock> and 04_force_blank_only_on_ltsp.patch
<sbalneav> How long are they?
<LaserJock> are those what you're looking for?
<sbalneav> Could you pastie them?
<LaserJock> sure
<sbalneav> Wonder what ascii are we could come up with for a hug?
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34816/
<sbalneav> Thankee
<LaserJock> that's payback for telling me I should log in as a different user on the TC ;-)
<Nubae> hi... I have a quick question, I'm running LTSP and the clients seem to be freezing and looping at the point of starting the nbd-client process
<Nubae> oh... running edubuntu feisty btw
<sbalneav> Man, I'd LOVE get a gnome-core dev, tie him/her to a chair, feed him/her jolt cola and dingdongs and not let him/her up until gnome was multi-login capable.
<sbalneav> Then Gnome would be perfect.
<Nubae> I get Startubg NBD client process, screen goes black and then goes back... and the same process repeats
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hehe
<Nubae> anybody seen this before?
<LaserJock> hmmm
<sbalneav> This is for nbd swapping, I'm assuming?
<Nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> I think I was having that last night when i was using the wrong X driver
<sbalneav> How much ram in the client?
<Nubae> yeah thought it might be X, if I go to a shell, it works
<Nubae> 1 gig
<sbalneav> Ah, yeah.
<sbalneav> Prolly X
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure it's X trying to start and failing
<Nubae> ndb swapping I turned off... just to see, get the same problem...
<sbalneav> try something like XSERVER = vesa, to see if it comes all the way off.
<Nubae> ok... so just play with XSERVER settings?
<sbalneav> up, sorry.
<Nubae> Its on Vesa now
<sbalneav> yeah.
<sbalneav> Wierd.  What kind of chipset?
<LaserJock> Nubae: I think nbd is just the last process that gets started before X starts
<Nubae> ATI radeon mobility x1450
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> yeah
<sbalneav> Try the "radeon" driver, maybe?
<Nubae> I've tried ati as the xserver setting... and vesa
<Nubae> wouldnt vesa work no matter what?
<sbalneav> it's SUPPOSED to.  :)
<Nubae> ok, I'll try radeon...
<LaserJock> if I remember right vesa doesn't work with x???? cards
<LaserJock> or something
<Nubae> heh, damn ATI and linux
<LaserJock> I've read that somewhere recently anyway
<LaserJock> although I thought it was gutsy that was having that problem
<sbalneav> Man, I wish intel would get off their tush and release a agp card version of their graphics chipsets.
<LaserJock> I'd probably buy one
<LaserJock> even if it wasn't that fast, I don't do much
<Nubae> cant I just use framebuffer?
<sbalneav> Could try that.
<Nubae> damn... radeon doesnt work either
<Nubae> xserver=fbdev, right?
<LaserJock> I think you might be stuck with fglrx as the only driver that works for that card
<Nubae> ok, and is that available under the ltsp chroot?
* Nubae pulls his hair out... 2 days with LTSP
<Nubae> fglrx no go
<Nubae> so... basically x1450 doesnt work under LTSP at all?
<LaserJock> Nubae: you gotta install the ATI proprietary driver first
<Nubae> ok, but where? from a ltsp shell login?
<LaserJock> well, it's gonna have to be in the ltsp chroot
<Nubae> allright, thanks a lot for your help... I'll try my luck
<paolob> Hi guys! What software do I use in order to configure a cisco router? something like windows' hiperterminal
<lns> paolob, kinda offtopic...but try minicom
<Riddell> well, I can't set your topic, but tribe 5 is out
#edubuntu 2007-08-24
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> sbalneav!
<LaserJock> heh, I'm stalking you
<LaserJock> I've been waiting 1.5 hrs for you to show up ;-)
<sbalneav> Well, I'd always hoped to be stalked by Christie Brinkly, or Gisele Bundschen, but, you'll do in a pinch, I suppose :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> ok, local devices
<LaserJock> now, I believe the user has to be added to the fuse group, right?
* sbalneav checks the magic 8-ball
<sbalneav> "Answer is certain"
<LaserJock> ok, well I don't have a fuse group
<LaserJock> should I?
<sbalneav> Did you check the libfuse dpkg install script? "if ["$USER" = "LaserJock" ] ; then exit; fi
<sbalneav> Yes, you should.
<sbalneav> got ltspfs package installed on the server?
<sbalneav> Wow, I'm full of beans tonight :)
<sbalneav> Must be in a good mood :)
<sbalneav> Install the ltspfs package.  That'll pull in fuselibs which will add groups.
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't have ltspfs
<LaserJock> just ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone
<sbalneav> Then add yourself to fuse group, log out, log in, and.... magic!
<LaserJock> hah, it worked
<LaserJock> amazing
<electric_penguin> question about italc can any help?
<RichEd> hey there mr savage
<RichEd> I had a mate at school called Bruce Savage ... went on to sail for South Africa in the olympics
<RichEd> cbx33: Jill sent me some more artwork samples ...
<cbx33> yes I was about to reply
<cbx33> howz it going RichEd
<highvoltage> RichEd: isn't there a radio DJ who's name is also Peter Savage?
<RichEd> highvoltage: I am trying to remember his first name, ex capital radio ... now does voice overs for Top Billing
<highvoltage> RichEd: that's the one, yes
<RichEd> highvoltage: Kevin Savage
<RichEd> anyone who is interested ... check out the artwork samples here and make comments:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer
* RichEd is back in 30 min
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | feisty (7.04) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download | Tribe5 development release is out: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/gutsy/tribe-5/
* mode/#edubuntu [-o ogra]  by ogra
<RichEd> hi ogra
<ogra> hey
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer <- new samples added ... I dig #1 global
<RichEd> see what you think
<ogra> i think she loves our logo to much, but beyond that .... BEAUTIFUL !!!!!!
<ogra> WOW
<ogra> i think if the shadow behind the logo would just be a bit more fuzzy so its not as much in the foreground that would suffice
<RichEd> cool ... can you add a comment to the page
<ogra> will do
<jsgotangco> thats nice
<RichEd> I think the global one has some great elements: earth (geography and global village) old writing like sailing records (history) maths & biology etc.
<RichEd> jsgotangco: not bad for a granny who usually illustrates kids books working with with pen & paper !
<ogra> yes, its perfect for a default
<jsgotangco> wow
<ogra> we need it at 1600x1200 for the final version
<ogra> so it scales down to all sized
<ogra> *sizes
<jsgotangco> bbl
<RichEd> add that all to the comments on the page, it is easiest to have it all in one place for her to refer to ... and then we can also save the comments / specs for later guidance for any other volunteers
<ogra> yup
<gordon> anybody to help me with x11vnc?
<highvoltage> froud: long time no see!
<froud> highvoltage: yip, I am still kicking. Good to see you 2
<Nubae> hi, anyone here got experience setting up ltsp with ATI video cards?
<ogra> Nubae, you want the prorietary driver ?
<Nubae> I guess so, I've tried, using fbdev, ati, vga, fglrx (guess this isnt precompiled for ltsp) and nothing works as the XSERVER setting
<Nubae> I'm running laptops with radeon x1450 mobility
<Nubae> I can get it to shell with the screen_07=shell command... but thats about it
<ogra> its just not installed by default (teh binary blob drivers are loaded into a tmpfs on boot, that would eat 15M of syour ram, so we dont install tehm by default)
<ogra> which release is that ? feisty ?
<Nubae> ah, ok... feisty yeah
<Nubae> but is it normal that no other driver works?
<ogra> it should fall back ro vesa by default if it cant detect a matching driver and you didnt fiddle with the lts.conf file
<ogra> *to
<Nubae> vesa doesnt work either
<Nubae> at the point nbd-client starts up, screen goes black, as if it were starting up X
<Nubae> then goes back to console, then repeats
<Nubae> I'm pretty sure its the graphics card that is giving me problems, but could it be something else?
<ogra> can you check what drive gets detected by default with SCREEN_07=shell and checking the generated xorg.conf in /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
<ogra> *driver
<Nubae> yup, just a sec
<Nubae> so leave XSERVER empty then?
<ogra> dont modify the default lts.conf ;)
<ogra> its only used for overriding autdetection nowadayxs
<Nubae> ok, this might seem like a stupid question, but where do I add users to use the ltsp environment...
<Nubae> ?
<ogra> on the server
<Nubae> yeah, I added a user there and added them to the fuse group
<ogra> the ltsp client doesnt have any users and root is locked ...
<ogra> if you log in in an X session you are actually logging in on the servers desktop, soyour users need to be created there
<Nubae> yeah, I added a user there, put him in the fuse group and gave him all permitions...
<ogra> right, thats fine then
<Nubae> do I need to restart dhcp?
<ogra> no
<ogra> only if you make changes to the dhcpd.conf
<Nubae> weird... cant login
<ogra> got X ?
<Nubae> no X on the ltsp... just shell
<ogra> you wont be able to log in
<ogra> as i said, there are no users in thin clients and root is locked
<Nubae> ok... problem is I cant get to anything but shell
<ogra> add SCREEN_07=shell or set a rootpw in the client chroot
<ogra> (go with the first)
<Nubae> i did screen_07=shell
<ogra> that should give you an open shell on tty7
<Nubae> not open
<ogra> (no login prompt)
<Nubae> asking me for login and password
<ogra> ctrl-alt-f7 ?
<Nubae> soh!
<Nubae> thanks
<ogra> ok :)
<Nubae> :-)
<Nubae> ochams razor
<ogra> so have a look at the xorg.conf and check which driver was detected
<Nubae> vesa
<Nubae> I'm guessing I have to build the fglrx driver in the ltsp environment, right?
<ogra> can you run startx ands check what output you get on teh console ?
<ogra> no
<ogra> you dont have to build anything in ltsp5 ;)
<ogra> its all there
<ogra> or easily installable
<Nubae> ok, sounds cool
<ogra> whyt does startx give you ?
<Nubae> VESA(0) No matching modes
<ogra> bad
<ogra> what kind of monitor do you have there ?
<Nubae> its a laptop
<Nubae> Asus
<ogra> widescreen ?
<Nubae> 17inch wxga+
<Nubae> widescreen yeah
<ogra> ddcprobe vesa
<ogra> run that, see if it properly reports its modes
<Nubae> seems to
<ogra> weird
<ogra> then xorg should pick them up ...
<ogra> anyway
<ogra> do you have a xorg.conf that works with these laptops ? (from a former install or so)
<Nubae> nope... theyve got windows installed on them
<Nubae> but I can I look for one on the web
<Nubae> could it be changing the res might help?
<Nubae> I've got 1440x900 received by dtiming
<ogra> the card should work with something free as well, i'll happily help you to get fglrx going, but would like to find out why it doesnt work with vesa at least
<Nubae> yeah, same here, its a weird issue
<Nubae> btw... you're being a great help, thankyou...
<ogra> did the ddcprobe command return any standard modes like 1024x768 or so ?
<ogra> or only widescreen ones
<Nubae> let me retry
<Nubae> I just did a dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
<Nubae> added 1440x900 and startx dies with the same error, vesa no modes found, no screens present
<Nubae> but yeah lots of modes found up to 1600x1200
<Nubae> I've been looking for a xorg.conf on the web, but they are all with fglrx
<ogra> right
<ogra> lets get that then
<Nubae> ok
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-386
<ogra> that command will install the kernel driver for fglrx
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
<ogra> this installs the Xorg driver
<ogra> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<ogra> that copies the new initramfs with the restricted drivers to the tftp dir you boot from
<ogra> now set XSERVER=fglrx and it should work
<ogra> oh, indeed, all these commands need to be run on the server
<highvoltage> it would be nice if restricted-manager integrated nicely with ltsp
<highvoltage> (on the server, of course)
<ogra> it should integrate with ltsp-manager ;)
<ogra> if i ever get that done :P
<highvoltage> :)
<Nubae> hmmm... internet works, but apt-get doesnt
<ogra> we have a spec for update-manager integration r-m shoudl work similar here :)
<Nubae> apt-get update... no go
<ogra> Nubae, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update ?
<ogra> check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf ...
<ogra> might be wrong ... if so, just copy the one from /etc over
<Nubae> nope, its correct
<Nubae> ping google.com works anyway from the chrooted env.
<ogra> whats the error with apt-get update ?
<Nubae> file not found
<ogra> which file ?
<Nubae> main packeges and restricted
<Nubae> let me check sources.list
<Nubae> ok... thast the problem
<Nubae> its empty
<Nubae> just the install CD
<ogra> right
<Nubae> copy from normal root should work right?
<ogra> copy over the servers one
<Nubae> ok
<ogra> and apt-get update it indeed
<ogra> i wonder if its sensible to just copy that over on CD installs ...
<ogra> its very unlikely that you actually use the CD in the chroot after install
<Nubae> hardly use the CD on normal installs... its a pain that it asks u for it all the time
<ogra> right
<Nubae> and u get the failed errors if the cdrom is not in the drive when u do a apt-get update
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'll see that i get that fixed for gutsy
<Nubae> but guess not everyone has internet 8-)
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'd guess the majority of our users wont have broadband even but still ...
<ogra> its unlikely you upgrade ltsp from CD
<Nubae> yeah, its the same in regular ubuntu too though
<Nubae> so, I've got a question... I've got a pretty high end setup here... HP Proliant G5 server with 4 gigs ram, gigabit ethernet throughout and duo core2 laptops with 1 gig ram...
<Nubae> will I loose out using ltsp instead of regular install?
<ogra> no
<ogra> simkply because you have to do your maintenance only on one machine you will always have an advantage here ....
<Nubae> thats what I thought... ltsp is always advertised for low end setups, but guess high end benefits just as much
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> its a bit of a waste, but the advantages weight it out imho
<Nubae> I guess, but new laptops with a decent size screen are all core 2 duo now
<Nubae> and this school absolutely wanted laptops
<Nubae> with big screens :-/
<ogra> which somewhat defeats the purpose :)
<ogra> what did you pay per laptop ?
<Nubae> 900 $
<ogra> woah
<ogra> with think clients you would have made it for half the price even with 20" screens
<Nubae> I know... but they wanted laptops
<ogra> yep
<ogra> their choice ...
<Nubae> at least I have vista and xp installed too, in case they need that crap for anything
<Nubae> hopefully not, I wont support it
<Nubae> crossover with various win apps should suit them fine
<ogra> just be careful with the licensing :)
<Nubae> ah yes... wine then
<ogra> crossover or wine on ltsp enable you to use single user apps in a multi user env ... you usually break the licenses with that
<Nubae> yeah crossover has a server version
<Nubae> wine is free so I'll stick to that
<Nubae> from what I understand its the same anyway
<Nubae> without fancy frontend
<ogra> i'm not talking about wine or crossover ... i mean the apps you  run through them
<ogra> the windoews apps with the restricted licenses
<Nubae> oh ok...
<Nubae> I'll let the school know, not to use more than one computer at a time :-/
<ogra> not sure what MS piracy ploce would say about that though ...
<ogra> *police
<Nubae> well, right now, I'm migrating the school from a windows only system with NO licenses for any software
<ogra> heh
<ogra> improvement at least :)
<Nubae> I live in Spain, and no one pays for anything here
<Nubae> its terrible
<Nubae> I know very few companies that have licenses for their software
<ogra> but every village has its own linux distro at least :P
<Nubae> all of the schools in the area run pirated windows
<Nubae> well... in theory everyone should be using linux
<Nubae> in practice no one is
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i guess spain had the most linux distros per headcount of inhabitants in the world :)
<Nubae> I just dont get it... the perfect garden of eden is staring them in the face and they continue to spend money on useless products
<Nubae> hehehe, yeah indeed
<Nubae> its great for creating custom solutions... if only people would use it
<ogra> yeah
<Nubae> I was looking into molinux, which has a great small business management software integrated
<Nubae> gesticam its called
<Nubae> u can stick it on a usb stick and use wherever u want
<Nubae> its the perfect solution
<ogra> from gutsy on ubuntu will hhave ebox as default solution
<Nubae> the problem is that business law and tax laws change so much from location to location
<Nubae> having something truly universal is gonna be difficult
<ogra> http://www.ebox-platform.com/
<ogra> its a spanish product afaik
<Nubae> really? wow, have to check that out then
<Nubae> hey what is ltsp-update-sshkeys used for?
<Nubae> I read u need to use that whenever u change IPs... but which ones?
<ogra> the one of the NIC your thin client network is connected to on the server
<ogra> in gutsy it gets some extra functions so you can add more servers (ldm has a server selection menu in gutsy so you can have per department servers etc)
<Nubae> great... still needs a lot of documentation... but its a wonderful solution ltsp
<ogra> yeah
<Nubae> when I'm done, I'll try and help out in any way I can
<ogra> we'ree missing a lot here WRT docs
<Nubae> ok, testing with fglrx
<Nubae> yes!
<ogra> :)
<Nubae> beautiful... thanks... I should write up a how to for ati users
<ogra> yeah, put it under https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP if you are done
* ogra goes for a coffeebreak, bbl
<Nubae> yeah I will, thanks again
<Nubae> does beryl work through ltsp?
<jbarry> hi all I would like to ask on how to remotely shutdown the clients from an admin logon session
<sbalneav> Morning all
<jbarry> hello all, can anybody help me on how to remotely shutdown LTSP clients?
<highvoltage> jbarry: I don't think that has been implemented yet (or even feature-requested, for that matter)
<highvoltage> ogra: is it in ltsp-manager perhaps?
<ogra> highvoltage, ltsp-manager is a mockup
<highvoltage> aaah, I thought it was the latest incarnation of the student control panel
<jbarry> i was using client manager but it has only disconnect
<sbalneav> jbarry: I just posted something about this last night to the ltsp-discuss list
<highvoltage> well, fortunately it's easier to get a feature into a mockup than into a real tool :)
<ogra> there is no way yet, we havent found a safe way to do that yet
<jbarry> i was hoping to like issue an init 0 to a client
<sbalneav> jbarry: Check the ltsp-discuss list.  I implemented a solution.
<highvoltage> ogra: in terms of security?
<jbarry> ok ill go look
<sbalneav> My way's not particularily safe, but it works.  :)
<ogra> highvoltage, i dont see a way witrhout opening a port wide
<ogra> sbalneav, ltsp-discuss != ltsp-devel ?
<sbalneav> Well, there is a separate ltsp-devel list, but not many people ever use it :)
<ogra> meh
<ogra> i'm only subbed to -devel
* ogra adds the 68st ML to his evo :/
<sbalneav> Oh, you're missing out on all the fun :)
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ogra> ah, well, over 500 mails a day ... i doubt adding more gains more fun
<sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34897/
<sbalneav> it's exCEEDingly gross.
<sbalneav> but, for someone who wants the functionality....
<sbalneav> It's better than the old infod, which didn't have a password at all :)
<ogra> what i was thinking about was some kind of monitor we start from an ldm rc script ... that monitors a dir thats owned by the logged in user
<ogra> so we just need to drop stuff in that dir and the client picks it up on next poll
<ogra> indeed that doesnt help if nobody is logged in
<ogra> but it has slightly more safety
<sbalneav> yeah, that's the problem
<sbalneav> Personally: IP controlled powerbars :)
<sbalneav> One assumes something under snmp could handle this somehow, but then that means running an snmp agent on each box.  Urrrgh
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> My solution's ugly, the password's sniffable.
<ogra> same prob .. thenm we can leave a port open as well :)
<sbalneav> right.
<ogra> lets put that up for speccing in boston :)
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Volunteer btw
<highvoltage> ogra: what if, the server writes shut-down information on a file in the chroot? and if the client sees a file that exists, it shuts down?
<ogra> highvoltage, wont work
<highvoltage> ko
<ogra> not with the squashfs implementaition at lest
<highvoltage> well, nbd makes it easy to add additional mounts
<ogra> with nfs this would work though, but only locally
<ogra> hmm, thats actually an idea
<highvoltage> the shut down file wouldn't need to be in the chroot, could be in a control directory in the server on a seperate moun too
<ogra> right
<highvoltage> and it could be mounted on bootup, so you know the shares come from the same server
<ogra> yup
<ogra> even from initramfs if we want
<highvoltage> that's what I was thinking
<ogra> even though i'm getting cauitious about the initramfs stuff
<ogra> i'd love to move *everything* configuration related in there, but that would make it extremly hard for other distros
<ogra> so we need to keep the balance here
<highvoltage> ah, that's a very good consideration
<ogra> well, i'm seeing them all struggle at the same point
<ogra> redhat tried with anaconda for building the boot image and didnt get it working ....
<ogra> opensuse had the same with kiwi
<ogra> so they all heave probes wwith the initramfs creating step
<ogra> *probs
<highvoltage> hmmm
<boyam> ogra: she did an awesome job on the artwork...I likey likey. I agree with your suggestion to tone it down....I'd use them all as backgrounds though
<ogra> yeah, lets see how space we have left on the CD in the end ... i'll try to add as many as i can
<boyam> :)
<Nubae> hi again...
<Nubae> So, I've got LTSP working fine now, on ati, but looking at the ltsp based xorg.conf I see its using ati as the video driver instead of fglrx, is this normal?
<ogra> not if you set XSERVER in lts.conf ... that would be a bug then
<Nubae> this morning Ogra was kind enough to help me out getting the fglrx drivers installed
<Nubae> oh.. hi Ogra
<Nubae> :-)
<ogra> hey
<Nubae> well... I did set fglrx in XSERVER yeah
<Nubae> thought it was odd
<ogra> it is ... thats a bug ...
<Nubae> ok... and if I change it locally in xorg.conf, will that fix it?
<ogra> but it shouldnt happen in gutsy
<ogra> no
<Nubae> hmm... so what shall I do to get fglrx working? I'd like to use blender on these machines and I'm gonna need the proprietary drivers
<ogra> if you save the xorg.conf to the server and copy it into the chroot, then you can point to it with the XF86CONFIG_FILE variable and use the static file
<ogra> speeds up booting a lot btw
<Nubae> the variable... where does that go? in lts.conf?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> and the path needs to be relative to the chroot
<ogra> (/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/my-xorg.conf becomes XF86CONFIG_FILE=/etc/my-xorg.conf)
<Nubae> allright, out of curiosity... the actual xorg.conf that is in each ltsp computer, is that not a copy of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf?
<ogra> no, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf gets overwritten during client boot
<Nubae> right... so when I edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf on the ltsp terminal
<ogra> then its gone on next boot
<Nubae> riiight... gotcha
<ogra> since all writeable bits in a booted client sit in ram
<ogra> if ram is gone, data is gone ....
<Nubae> makes total sense... now... I've got 120 gigs on each computer... is there a way to use those drives under ltsp?
<Nubae> make them central storage somewhow?
<obiyoda> Hi all. Does edubuntu only serve out dhcp address to thin clients?
<Nubae> obi... no
<obiyoda> Thats what I thought but. I have a windows pc in one of my labs for multimedia stuff and it isn't grabbing an ip address from the edubuntu server.
<ogra> Nubae, well, you could try to tweak teh chroot with some kind of network filesystem like GFS or AFS and export them to teh net... but that requires at least tw machines to be online constantly
<ogra> *two
<ogra> obiyoda, it depends on your setup ...
<Nubae> yeah defeats the purpose
<obiyoda> Right now it is a vanilla setup from the cd. Do I need to tweak the dhcp config files.
<ogra> if you have a server with two network cards, it will use one interface for the thin clients (and for serving the dhc stuff) and one interface where it acts as client on another LAN
<ogra> *dhcp
<Nubae> if you're not careful, the thin client dhcp can end up serving the other network card
<obiyoda> Yes that is my setup the two cards. One is the internal lab the other is going to a dsl router
<ogra> if you have only one interface we dont start the dhcp server at all (since we assume your network might have one already and dont want to cause conflicts)
<ogra> right
<ogra> if your windows box is sitting on the internal lab network it should get an IP
<ogra> by default the dhcp server wont attach t the outbound interface
<ogra> *to
<obiyoda> I also have a network enabled printer that should be grabbing an ip address but I can't tell if it is. Is there a way on the server to see which addresses have been leased?
<Nubae> syslog should tell u
<obiyoda> ahh never mind the printer is now showing up now under nmap. So I will check my windows box settings and see why it is being such a beast
<obiyoda> nubae: thanks
<obiyoda> ogra: thanks also for your help I will be back in a bit
<ogra> :)
<Nubae> <cntrl><alt><del> wont work to reload the new xorg will it, have to restart the terminal client right?
<ogra> yes
<Nubae> btw... dont know if this another bug or not, but X_MODE doesnt work either
<ogra> its unsupported up to feisty :/
<ogra> the xserver-xorg package simply desnt accept it
<ogra> fixed in gutsy where we use a new mechanism for x detection
<Nubae> sounds like gutsy is gonna be a big step forward
<Nubae> at least for edubuntu
<ogra> for ltsp :)
<ogra> it is, yes
<ogra> it radically changed some things
<ogra> like dropping nfs
<Nubae> yeah sorry... didnt wanna undermine the already massive amount of work done ;-)
<Nubae> really, no nfs?
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS
<ogra> it boots about three times as fast
<Nubae> lol... I copied the xorg.conf line for line from chroot ltsp and now X wont start
<Nubae> ok... stupid me.. when u open up a terminal session... ssh into the server, then open up a tabbed terminal, you are automatically logged into another ssh session to the server, instead of to ltsp terminal
<ogra> right
<ogra> scp from the client console ;)
<Nubae> but isnt it logical for it to open a new terminal session in the tab instead of copying it?
<Nubae> ok... I'm a little stupid maybe here... but... when u open a terminal session its always from the root of the server?
<ogra> i you are in X its always on the server
<ogra> *if
<Nubae> but if I open a terminal session in X, then how do I check the local xorg.conf?
<Nubae> I was trying to view it from the console...
<ogra> you cant ...
<ogra> right, that works
<Nubae> so.. have to less it from a shell session?
<ogra> on the thin client console you can see the locally used file ... in X you are always on the server
<ogra> right
<Nubae> but not from applications->accessories->terminal
<ogra> right
<Nubae> ok, just trying to get my head around this, its confusing
<ogra> if you log in graphically its like you are locally sitting on the server
<ogra> imagine a thin client like additional keyboard/mouse/monitor to the server
<Nubae> ok, yeah its just another X session
<ogra> s/to/on/
<Nubae> but then the extra xorg.conf created locally doesnt work that way :-)
<ogra> right, it needs to be in the client chroot
<ogra> the stuff under /opt/ltsp/i386 is what the client mounts readonly during boot ...
<ogra> if the file lies in there you can access it on a running client
<Nubae> read only... but writes to ram
<ogra> right
<Nubae> gotcha.... think I've got it now
<ogra> in the old nfs days we mounte a tmpfs and copied all files we needed writeable into that, thne changed them wher needed
<Nubae> slower I take it
<ogra> nowadays unionfs does that for us
<Nubae> its still difficult to access local config files that have been changed though
<Nubae> like xorg.conf
<ogra> you change them in /opt/ltsp/i386
<Nubae> yeah but if they aren't always saved
<Nubae> autodetection and then flush after exit... or am I getting confused
<Nubae> if I edit the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf that is there, its not gonna work, I need to grab the xorg.conf from ram
<ogra> no
<ogra> you need to copy the xorg.conf from ram to the server
<ogra> and dont call it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf
<ogra> then point the lts.conf var to it
<ogra> call it /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf-custom or so
<Nubae> yeah I've done all that, thats y I'm saying... its not that simple to edit config files
<Nubae> maybe this is an exception
<ogra> you just need to keep in mind that you shouldnt edit on the cliet :)
<Nubae> how would u get the ram based xorg.conf then? or do u mean, u shouldnt have to be getting the client xorg.conf thats in ram
<Nubae> ideally
<ogra> log in on console
<ogra> scp /etc/X11/xorg.conf <your_user>@server:/tmp/xorg.conf-custom
<ogra> use an existing user of teh server for <your_user>
<Nubae> yeah I've got all that... but logging into the console by changing the lts.conf to get there seems complex for most users
<ogra> well
<Nubae> btw... is there a page where all the lts.conf options are shown for ubuntu?
<ogra> you are special :)
<ogra> there are not many thin clients out there using ati cards :)
<Nubae> really? seems it would be half the market
<Nubae> nvidia bein the other hald
<Nubae> half
<ogra> thin clients usually dont have nvidia or ati cards :)
<ogra> the have via, trident or any other embedded graphics chip usually
<Nubae> what about users that are using graphic intensive programs
<Nubae> cant imagine blender running on an s3
<Nubae> wow... smart to hit the reboot button on a terminal session
<ogra> heh
<Nubae> well, after all this, I realised I was looking at the servers xorg.conf when I thought I was looking at the local rammed xorg.conf, as luck would have it the server has an ati card too
<Nubae> so guess fglrx is working fine after all
<ogra> :)
<Nubae> u know, if u have the fglrx driver loaded and have screen_07=shell on, the screen goes black and freezes
<ogra> might be an fglrx bug i notced console switching doesnt work sometimes on the ati systems i use with it
<ogra> not much we can do about bugs in the binary drivers :(
<Nubae> I can console switch allright, just cant get into shell session with fglrx driver loaded
<Nubae> well, at least I know its working... just one last question and I promise I'll leave u alone ;-)
<ogra> try SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_06=shell ....
<ogra> then tty6 should have a shell
<Nubae> can I Install Beryl as I normally would, or not?
<Nubae> regardless of the problems its known to have with ati...
<ogra> you should use compiz, not beryl ...
<ogra> but you are aware that fglrx doesnt have composite support ?
<Nubae> not proper support, but I've seen it work
<ogra> not with a default X server
<ogra> only with Xgl which we dont support and which will surely be tricky to set up in the client
<Nubae> yeah dont the proprietary drivers also support some sort of internal composite?
<Nubae> maybe thats nvidia
<ogra> nvidia does
<ogra> and the ati driver does with some cards
<ogra> fglrx does it only through Xgl which adds a layer inbetween and is nearly as bd as using plain software rendering
<ogra> s/ati/radeon/
<Nubae> yeah, ok, forget it then... I was so explicit about asking for nvidia containing laptops...
<ogra> you mean ati
<Nubae> no, I wanted them to get nvidia containing laptops
<ogra> ah
<ogra> but they did get you ati
<Nubae> yeah :-) might as well have been s3
<ogra> you could try if the ati driver supports composite with your card though ...
<Nubae> gonna look it up, but setting it up is just as In would nin a normal install right?
<Nubae> only thing that I would change is the xorg.conf which has now been hard linked to a file in chroot
<Nubae> ok, well, thankyou again for all your help, really you've been terrific, and I promise I'll give back to the community by writing up a how to for ati cards... including composite, if I can get it to work
<ogra> yay
<ogra> enjoy your ltsp :)
<Nubae> do u guys actually get paid? or am I asking something I shouldnt be ;-) ?
<ogra> i am, yes
<ogra> i'm working for canonical and doe edubuntu and ltsp
<Nubae> just you?
<ogra> for these two ? yes
<ogra> i would be nothing without sbalneav though :)
<Nubae> and u do online help and software development?
<ogra> well, less support, more development usually, but i had a hard week with the tribe5 release and needed some relaxation today
<sbalneav> I get paid to develop LTSP.
<sbalneav> Ogra pays me in beer :)
<ogra> HAHAHA
<ogra> :)
<ogra> right
<Nubae> u guys are in SA?
<ogra> <- germany
<sbalneav> I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
<sbalneav> I do it because I love it.
<ogra> i do because i have to
<Nubae> yeah I can feel the love too... I used to be a gentoo user
<ogra> (living in germany i mean)
<Nubae> before the entire politics destroyed the distro
<Nubae> now ubuntu seems to be miles ahead of everything else
<sbalneav> Got tired of waiting for things to compile? :)
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> Sorry, low blow :)
<Nubae> true, some years ago, it actually made sense to make things that little bit faster
<sbalneav> I'm one to talk.  I spend more time waiting for ltsp-update-image to finish than I do USING the image :)
<Nubae> with todays hardware.. theres no point
<Nubae> yeah but you're doing it to beta test I'm sure
<sbalneav> We've managed to attract some good people.
<sbalneav> yeah, test, test test.
<sbalneav> 8 years ago I was looking for a thin client solution, and bumped into ltsp.
<sbalneav> Loved it so much I became one of the code devz
<sbalneav> devs, sorry
<Nubae> it is great I must say... I cant even imagina how much time I've saved with 40 computers in this School I'm setting up right now
<cliebow> sbalneav Rocks!
<sbalneav> And I got involved in Ubuntu and Edubuntu because that was the first distro that actively sought us out to work towards getting LTSP tightly integrated.
<cliebow> we all do..
<Nubae> I was gonna setup K12 first
<Nubae> seemed to be more active
<Nubae> but I didnt like the idea of a rpm based distro
<Nubae> ltsp and ubuntu are pretty new friends though
<Nubae> not that much info on the web at all
<sbalneav> Yeah, we're developing so fast, docs are suffering.
<ogra> new friends since 2,5years :)
<boyam> sbalneav: now if we can knudge you over to saboyan....get that project up to date ...it'll make me happy :)
<sbalneav> In the old days, LTSP docs were good, because we had two guys working with LTSP that JUST did doco.
<ogra> we're not new :) we just suck a lot wrt docs
<sbalneav> Now, it's the old problem: do I write code, or write docs.
<sbalneav> We're WAY better than we were.  At least the handbook has SOMETHING in it now.  And I'll be adding more over the next couple of weeks.
<ogra> boyam, we'll get there ...
<ogra> yeah, i'll have to look after TCM ... :/
<ogra> its such a mess
<sbalneav> ogra: Where's the bzr repo for it?
<ogra> well ...
<ogra> the last one *might* be petes,
<ogra> but best might be to just create a ew one from the source package
<Nubae> well, like I said, Ill be glad to help writing upn something for getting ltsp working with ati
<sbalneav> You gonna do any work for tcm this go-round?
<ogra> sbalneav, bugfixing
<ogra> the userlist stuff is totally f*cked up
<sbalneav> How fast can you throw up a bzr repo?
<ogra> that nedds to be done at least
<sbalneav> Get one up, I'll give you a hand.
<ogra> not tonight anymore
<ogra> ill try to get it up over the weekend
<sbalneav> What time's it there? 8-something?
<ogra> 9:10pm
<sbalneav> Cripes, I was up last night working 'till 1am
<sbalneav> slacker :)
<Nubae> I've got composite 0 in extensions, setting it to 1 should turn it on right?
<ogra> sbalneav, recovering from tribe
<sbalneav> heheh, just razzing you.
<Nubae> in local rammed xorg.conf
<sbalneav> When you put one up, shoot me an email.
<ogra> Nubae, you shouldnt need to do anything but check the checkbox in the desktop-effects applet
<ogra> (wile using the ati driver)
<Nubae> fglrx
<ogra> if it works it will just switch over
<ogra> fglrx wont work
<ogra> fglrx is fine fo GL but doesnt have composite as i said before
<Nubae> ok, well ati wont work at all, so no composite I guess
<Nubae> ok, when u said some ati cards have composite u meant with ati driver
<ogra> didnt you have ati in the xorg.conf right after you installed fglrx ?
<ogra> i thought you said something like that
<Nubae> I was looking at the servers xorg.conf which happens to have an ati card
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> to many ati cards in this world
<sbalneav> ogra, you gonna do the big merge on Monday?  I got one more ltspfs bug to fix that I know of.
<Nubae> edubuntu used to come with tons of educational apps
<ogra> Nubae, they are on the server-addon CD now
<ogra> didnt fit on one CD anymore
<Nubae> ahh... k
<ogra> sbalneav, before monday i hope
<sbalneav> Gonna be in chat on the weekend?
<ogra> we'll see
<ogra> susie is grumbling already ... that i'm still typing
<ogra> and we need to pick up a new guinea pig she bought (first female in the herd)
<sbalneav> Go! Don't piss off your better half.
<Nubae> indeed
<ogra> but i'd like to get some stuff done ...
<ogra> so we'll see ....
<Nubae> si there a list somewhere of the education software that comes with edubuntu (addon disc)?
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Any able to tell me how to run a script at logout for an LDM user (ltsp thin client)
<cberlo> ogra: Help?  :)
<sbalneav> Which version of ltsp?
<sbalneav> feisty?
<cberlo> edgy
<cberlo> got 99.9% of what I want working, now I just need to be able to unmount some remote shares at logout...
<sbalneav> Probably modify ldm
<cberlo> sbalneav: Okay.  Where does that live, and how do I make my mods permanent across upgradeS?
<sbalneav> Look at the "ssh_remote_command" variable at about line 180 or so
<sbalneav> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin
<sbalneav> and you don't. :)
<sbalneav> If you modify a distributed package, you'll have to maintain the mods yourself.
<cberlo> Alright, it's a start.
<sbalneav> You could also probably put something in for pam sessions, that or /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<sbalneav> you'd have to play around a bit.
<cberlo> I like that idea better -- where would you put the pam stuff for logout?
<cberlo> I'm currently using libpam-script
<sbalneav> Dunno.
<cberlo> LOL
<sbalneav> I'm merely making suggestions of where you can do investigating.
<cberlo> Sounds decent.  :)
<cberlo> Thanks.  Gotta run for the weekend!  Have a good one!
<cbx33> ping encompass
#edubuntu 2007-08-25
<cberlo> Hi folks.
<LaserJock> hi cberlo
<cberlo> Anyone familiar with how the login process opens and closes sessions?  I'm trying to find where to look for specifics on that (without delving into source code) and keep getting resources with users having problems.  I don't have a problem, I just want to trick kick off a script when login ends the session (or does "logout")
<Kamping_Kaiser> know how in gdm, not ldm *heh*
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<sbalneav> Just picked up my copy of "300" on DVD today.
<pfein> hi, I'm installing xubuntu for my landlord's 8 year old daughter... any suggestions on packages?  games, educational, etc..
<boyam> pfein, gcompris is asuite of games/activities......may help to survey the young lady and your landlord to find likes and dislikes...so you can get a feel on what to try out...
<pfein> boyam: yeah, someone else suggested that.  Unfortunately, I'm leaving town in a few days... guess we're gonna find out just how easy (x)ubuntu really is. ;-)
<pfein> It's an older laptop that was headed for the trash (and came with a severely infected Win98 install, so anything's better).
<pfein> I guess I can just pick through http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/metapackages/edubuntu-desktop
<pfein> boyam: anyway, my landlord's mexican & they speak spanish at home... his kids know some english, but anything ESL-oriented would be helpful (vocabulary especially).
<pfein> thx
<gduteil> hello
<gduteil> bonjour
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: You about?
<edgherna> help please
<sbalneav> edgherna: Still here?
<edgherna> yes
<sbalneav> What do you need?
<edgherna> i not speak english good
<edgherna> configure thin-client-manager-gnome
<edgherna> for pc not thin-client
<sbalneav> Well, it's not designed for standalone pc's.  It depends on there being thin clients.
<sbalneav> If you need to administer a regular box, you can just install openssh-server, and ssh in, and do what you need.
<edgherna> control aula by linex
<sbalneav> Or, if you need graphical remote access, you could set up something like VNC, or FreeNX
<edgherna> I remain with vnc
<edgherna> another thing
<edgherna> it knows some documentation to install ldap in edubuntu
<sbalneav> Check the edubuntu-users mailing list.
<edgherna> and not been able to find something good
<sbalneav> David Trask posted some good documentation on that there.
<edgherna> I need it because I have two servants ltsp and need to share the
<edgherna> whatever
<edgherna> I need it because I have two servants ltsp and need to share the
<edgherna> accounts
<edgherna> it excuses, but as I arrive at edubuntu-users mailing list?
<sbalneav> Search on the edubuntu.org site.  As well, wiki.ubuntu.com has ldap information on it.
<sbalneav> ok, heading away from keyboard for a bit.  Good luck
<LaserJock> anybody want to do some Edubuntu bug triage/squashing?
<obiyoda> If I use the chroot and install programs in there will those programs be run on the thin clinets
<obiyoda> hardware
<SimonAnibal> obiyoda, I don't believe so. The fact that they are thin clients means the only thing they do is show you what being run on the server, I thinik
<SimonAnibal> think
<obiyoda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ltsp-Local-Apps that just made me wonder if it was at all possible yet
<SimonAnibal> obiyoda, You got me.
<obiyoda> SimonAnibal, I think it is something planned for in the future I just don't have time to figure out if it is possible right now. From my limited research it looks possible. But with classes starting monday I don't have the time to dig into it.
<obiyoda> But it looks interesting none the less
<SimonAnibal> nodnod, I think it's the next evolutionary step in thin clients
<SimonAnibal> let the thin client machines with the extra muscle carry some of the weight
<obiyoda> which would be nice especially when flash is such a resource hog on linux
#edubuntu 2007-08-26
<Brian___> edubuntu is good for collage :-p
<ti-grrr> i loaded edubuntu today on a server that used to be a k12ltsp. i have noticed that it seems alot slower than k12ltsp. are there any tips?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<sbalneav> !pastebit
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebit - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<sbalneav> night all
<Nubae> hello
<Nubae> I'm trying to enable usb disks and pendrives on a ltsp system (on the terminals) using a script I found at the ubuntu wiki... but it says its for 4.2, and doesnt seem to work
<Nubae> is there a easy way to do this?
<Nubae> anyone?
<Nubae> invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed. <-- I get this error with dbus, and I cannot seem to fix it... anyone run into this problem?
<Nubae> this is in a chrooted ltsp env.
<aalib> hey dude
<Nubae> hi aalib
<aalib> i need help!!
<aalib> big help!
<Nubae> well me too... dont think anyone is around...
<Nubae> tell me your problem and I'll tell you mine :-)
<aalib> hehe
<Nubae> (02:42:58 PM) Nubae: invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed. <-- I get this error with dbus, and I cannot seem to fix it... anyone run into this problem?
<Nubae> (02:43:26 PM) Nubae: this is in a chrooted ltsp env.
<aalib> got problems with my ati drivers
<Nubae> hah, well there I can help you
<Nubae> just went through that
<Nubae> with ltsp?
<aalib> itsp???
<Nubae> LTSP
<Nubae> terminal server
<aalib> btw im N00b itseems
<Nubae> ahh... ok
<Nubae> so, normal edubuntu install then?
<aalib> jst ubuntu 7.04
<Nubae> why u here on edubuntu then?
<Nubae> anyway... u need the fglrx driver to install ati on ubuntu in most cases
<aalib> hw do i do dat
<Nubae> well, can u get to X at all?
<aalib> nopes?
<aalib> X?
<Nubae> hehe, ok, best bet is to check one of the many how tos in ubuntuforums.org
<aalib> cheking
<Nubae> gotta run
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, I added a check to ltsp-update-image to check and see if proc's mounted.
<dv310p3r> Hello
<dv310p3r> I am looking for some help with edubuntu
<dv310p3r> Anyone?
<sbalneav> dv310p3r: What's your problem?
<dv310p3r> I have installed Edubuntu after running the Live CD first, and it doesn't seem to be the same thing. The live CD was perfect for my kids, but the actual install is void of all the apps that the Live CD had.
<dv310p3r> I want to run something that the kids can use without having to log in.
<dv310p3r> Right now, i am installing the Add On cd, but everytime I try to add something, it has a conflict of some sort or another.
<dv310p3r> Anyone there?
<dv310p3r> Bueller?
<sbalneav> dv310p3r: You need to install the second cd
<sbalneav> edubuntu got so big, it wouldn't fit all on one cd, so all the educational apps got put on the second cd.
<Nuba1> hey sbalneav... working on a weekend :-)
<sbalneav> Hello Nuba1
<Nuba1> we talked the other day... I have a massive issue with hald and dbus
<Nuba1> they're broken in the chroot environment
<Nuba1> seems circular problem cause I cant remove or install stuff to a big extent without getting back to the same point
<sbalneav> Well, we've done no work on hald and dbus in the chroot.  It doesn't surprise me it doesn't work.
<Nuba1> oh
<sbalneav> In fact, one of the major things that holds us up is that dbus isn't network aware.
<Nuba1> oh and how would I connect a usb drive then?
<Nuba1> pen drive
<sbalneav> The way we do it now.
<sbalneav> pen drives work fine in edubuntu.
<Nuba1> hmmm... well thats what got me into this mess, trying to get a pendrive on the local system to work
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
<Nuba1> ok... I went through a similar wiki... but I'll do this one too
<Nuba1> I've probably messed up my local apt-get now with this hald and dbus issue... can I remove them somehow and get back to the default
<sbalneav> You, of course, made a backup copy of your chroot before you started playing with it?
<Nuba1> well... ummm
<Nuba1> god... I was gonna make a backup when everything was working properly 8-)
<Nuba1> so... install a copy of edubuntu on another disk and copy over chroot?
<sbalneav> mv /opt/ltsp/ /opt/ltsp.mucked_up
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client
<Nuba1> ok, thanks a lot
<sbalneav> And, once you've got a clean chroot created...
<Nuba1> back it up :-)
<sbalneav> a quick cp -r /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.pristine saves a lot of waiting.
<Nuba1> yeah can see the benefit in that now :-/
<Nuba1> so, XGL is not supported at all under LTSP?
<sbalneav> No, trying to do fancy graphics over the wire just isn't a good idea.
<sbalneav> Well, off to the beach for the day.
<Amaranth> large textures over the wire == ouch
<Nuba1> enjoy, thanks a lot
<sbalneav> I'll be afk 'till tonght
#edubuntu 2008-08-18
<BigUrsis> is there anyone from conical that can give me a few minutes?
<mu3en> hey. where is the best place to ask for some advanced configuration of thin client input devices?
<LaserJock> ogra: had any time to look at denemo?
<stgraber> ogra: How can I make my chroot to work when NFS exported (rwdirs) ?
<stgraber> I remember that was specified on some wiki page but can't find it anymore ...
<Lns> Anyone know what permissions/group memberships are necessary to be able to kill other users' processes?
<Lns> Would 'admin' group be sufficient?
<LaserJock> Lns: should be, that's essentially (I can become root)
<LaserJock> stgraber: just tried out Alpha 4 addon CD
<LaserJock> we need to do a KDE3 -> KDE4 transition in our dependencies on KDE Edu
<LaserJock> keduca, kverbos, and kvoctrain were dropped (which make it impossible to install edubuntu-desktop)
<Lns> LaserJock: ty =)
<LaserJock> and parley, step, and marble have been added (though I'm not sure yet if they are in main)
<LaserJock> yep, they're all in Main
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't suppose you'd mind if I messed with the seeds/edubuntu-meta/edubuntu-app-install  to get KDE Edu fixed?
<LaserJock> hi bdoin
<bdoin> hi
<LaserJock> bdoin: how is gcompris going?
<bdoin> I am still porting it to use the goocanvas instead of the deprecated gnomecanvas. it brings some new exiting feature and I refreshes the user interface
<bdoin> it's really a long work to move a such large piece of code
<bdoin> and in the mean time I have to maintain the current release. today I added support for ukrainian
<bdoin> LaserJock: and about you, what are you working on by now
<LaserJock> trying to finish the PhD at last
<LaserJock> I've been away from Edubuntu for a while but am trying to get back into it a bit
<bdoin> makes sense ;)
<LaserJock> bdoin: had any complaints about Ubuntu since the translations were fixed?
<bdoin> no complaints at all. it's like we got everything right this time
<LaserJock> good good, that's nice to hear
<LaserJock> we've got a few bugs in Launchpad which I'll be having a look at
<LaserJock> I'll forward any on that aren't because of packaging problems
<bdoin> yes please
<LaserJock> bdoin: can you see if http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=520829 is properly filed?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 520829 in general "wrong dutch grammar: "het letter" should be "de letter"" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<LaserJock> I've not used bugzilla much, and got a bit confused
<bdoin> LaserJock: this bug really belongs to NL
<LaserJock> bdoin: I see, I just wasn't sure
<bdoin> you can play the sound boards/voices/nl/misc/click_on_letter.ogg
<LaserJock> so Gnome NL translates gcompris sounds?
<LaserJock> or does Gnome NL need to decided what the proper usage is
<LaserJock> s/usage/translation/
<bdoin> no, voices comes from independant translators
<LaserJock> ok
<bdoin> I forward the bug to the maintainer, will see
<LaserJock> ok, thank you
#edubuntu 2008-08-19
<LaserJock> ogra: I fixed the KDE3->KDE4 stuff last night
<LaserJock> ogra: the edubuntu-addon-* packages are a bit messed up now. I'm going to try to get them fixed up today
<spective> I've just upgraded an edubuntu install to Hardy, and am getting errors stating that the filesystem is read-only. (e.g. /tmp) I'm not certain where I should be looking regarding this...
<spective> (it currently stalls at the /etc/rc.local script.)
<spective> It appears that /etc/fstab is unconfigured...
<spective> It appears that /etc/rcS.d/S32ltsp-client-setup is supposed to populate /etc/fstab with entries including /tmp...
<spective> But by the time it is run, /etc is already on a r/o filesystem....
#edubuntu 2008-08-20
<coolio> i have this "kinit: boot error "any tips
<coolio> when i go to cntrl:alt 1/2/3/4/ i try to login but it times out
<LaserJock> morning Edu people
<ogra> LaserJock, hey ! thansk for taking care of the metapackage ... (sorry still no denemo love from my side)
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> I'm was working on the Harvest list for Edubuntu yesterday
<LaserJock> got a couple knocked off
<LaserJock> ogra: have you even had a chance to look at new denemo deps?
<ogra> i'd like to discuss them with the studio guys (persia and TheMuso mainly) i know there is work going on to sanitize jack for main
<ogra> persia is likely asleep atm (1am in tokio)
<LaserJock> well, I did talk to persia about it briefly
<ogra> what did he suggest ?
<LaserJock> it sounded like jack was maybe feasible but some of the other stuff (csound perhaps) he didn't see making it into Main
<ogra> i dont want to lose the note editing function we dont have anythig else that does offer this
<LaserJock> well, I was looking around for other note editors
<LaserJock> but they all have the same problem
<ogra> we could add LaTex :P
<LaserJock> well, which part of the problem is more concerning to you?
<LaserJock> lilypond or libaubio
<LaserJock> I could probably get a MIR for lilypond in, but the audio stuff is much more difficult, IMO
<ogra> both should be possible to get to main i heard
 * ogra thinks he remembers discussing aubio before with pitti
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> ogra: I was looking at the NBS list yesterday and I did notice that several of the deps are needed for other packages too
<ogra> right, i think thats why pitti said it wouldnt be a prob
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I don't want to take more of your time
<LaserJock> ogra: don't do more than you're supposed to. I'll work on getting the CD in shape
<ogra> well, i will do some more on edubuntu soon again
<ogra> stil waiting for the final signoff for cmpc
<LaserJock> cool
<chao1> hello. does anyone here know of a program that is for both windows and ubuntu that works like the thin client environment? I was reading about it and lost the link. I can't remember the name. But some of what it does is: allows the teacher to monitor and control the students desktop. Allows the teacher to let the classroom see her/his desktop, send im to the student, etc.
<ogra> italc
<chao1> yes thats it
<chao1> thank you
<LaserJock> ogra: have you looked at xaos? a sync isn't good?
<LaserJock> I did a test build last night and it at least built
<ogra> LaserJock, i only noticed the bug
<LaserJock> I didn't test it out so I have no idea if all the bits work properly
<ogra> does debian include the .desktop file and icon ?
<LaserJock> oh, good question, let me check
<ogra> the upstream changes should be fine
<ogra> there were ubuntu users involved in getting the UTF-8 support going, so i dont expect probs here
<LaserJock> yep, there is a .desktop and icon
<ogra> oh, coool !
<ogra> sync then :)
<ogra> i'll fix bugs if they come up
<LaserJock> yeah, I think a sync will actually close both of the ones on Harvest
<LaserJock> the UTF-8 issue is one
<ogra> i mean any upcoming ones if you dont test ;)
<ogra> xaos os a handsome package :)
<ogra> *is
<ogra> so i dont mind fixing things before release ... and updates before 8.10 are unlikely
<LaserJock> mhm
<ogra> xaos is in a very nice way nt very active and pretty stable ...
<LaserJock> ogra: btw, not sure if you saw but I talked to bdoin in here a bit about gcompris
<ogra> no, i didnt
<LaserJock> I asked if he'd been getting any more complaints about Ubuntu (there were quite a few ~ feisty/gusty)
<LaserJock> and he said no, everybody seems content
<ogra> great
<LaserJock> yeah
 * ogra pats LaserJock's back ....
<ogra> all your credit :)
<LaserJock> btw, I just found out that our Chemistry Department computer lab may convert from Windows to Edubuntu
<ogra> geez !
<LaserJock> well, some sort of Edubuntu/Ubuntu/Chemistry application mix
<LaserJock> I'm thinking of making a custom CD for it
<LaserJock> anyway, I'd been wanting to get away from those awful Windows computers forever
<LaserJock> and I was talking to the guy I'm teaching for this semester and he mentioned they were going to try to convert it
<LaserJock> he's a big Ubuntu fan and so is one of the profs
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> ogra: still around? I've got a quick question for you
#edubuntu 2008-08-22
<neil_d> I have a LTSP setup with the server having access to the internet, can I stop the clients ?  The clients do log in as different users.
#edubuntu 2008-08-24
<leap> hello
<leap> anyone home
<leap> i have some Questions
#edubuntu 2009-08-17
<ace_suares> cprofitt:
<ace_suares> cprofitt: hi I was cleaning up the wiki the last month
<ace_suares> untill it got really quiet here
<cprofitt> hello ace_suares
<ace_suares> hi cprofitt
<ace_suares> you are from doc-team?
<cprofitt> I am actually from the beginners team...
<ace_suares> he he arent we all beginers ;_0
<cprofitt> and we work with the doc team to take on editing the wiki and cleaning things up
<ace_suares> which wiki? help.ubuntu.com?
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam
<cprofitt> ace_suares, all of it
<ace_suares> cool
<ace_suares> I was doing wiki.edubuntu.org but that is the same ias wiki.ubuntu.com
<ace_suares> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/WikiCleanupEffort
<cprofitt> I believe so
<cprofitt> I believe same wiki -- different skin
<ace_suares> so kind request not to do stuff with the deubuntu stuff, but mail or Im me instead
<ace_suares> there is lots that needs chage! but the 'team' is on holiday or elsewhere. No new date for a meeting and so on. So I am in limbom pretty much.
<ace_suares> limbo
<ace_suares> sorry 'edubuntu stuff'.
<cprofitt> well... join the beginners team
<cprofitt> and we can work on it anyway
<ace_suares> cprofitt: yes I may
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam
<cprofitt> its an active, active team
<ace_suares> I am wondering why the edubuntu team didn't redirect me to the beginnersteam right away
<cprofitt> with people who are very willing to assist you find a niche
<cprofitt> lol...
<cprofitt> not sure...
<ace_suares> yeah we had loooong dicsussion on why they dont have enough manpower
<cprofitt> I have never talked to anyone on the edubuntu team
<ace_suares> basically, becasue they scare away new people :-)
<cprofitt> lol
<cprofitt> the beginners team has grown a great deal...
<ace_suares> so but there is a whole beginnersteam, then that should also help edubuntu
<cprofitt> we attract new people like moths to a flame
<ace_suares> I may pop in this week.
<cprofitt> sounds good
<ace_suares> Also look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/CategoryEdubuntuProposedForRemoval
<cprofitt> #ubuntu-beginners
<cprofitt> is our channel
<ace_suares> okay
<cprofitt> I will take a good look
<cprofitt> this is another project that has activity -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<ace_suares> cool project! I'll check it.
<ace_suares> The page you mentioned - recipes - is imho ready for deletion. But I have to wait on the team whenever they dehibernate to give the final word.
<ace_suares> cprofitt: you may read www.suares.an, www.suares.an/rkcs, and other page dealing with ltsp. Maybe you can advise me on the linux advocating. And try to watch the you tube on my homepage too.
<cprofitt> I will...
<cprofitt> where is .an?
<cprofitt> looks almost German...
<cprofitt> Netherlands?
<ace_suares> cprofitt: really click on the youtube link on the home page - then you'll know :-))))))
<ace_suares> bye for now
<cprofitt> see ya mate
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mhall119|work> morning
<Ahmuck-Sr> ace_suares: do u know how many documents there are located about iTalc?
<Ahmuck-Sr> iTALC service not running - "There seems to be no iTALC service running on this computer or the authenticaton-keys aren't set up properly.  The service is required for running iTALC.  Contact your administrator for solving this problem. [OK]
<HedgeMage> hi, all
<Lns> hi HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi, Lns
<davew> Are you around Ahmuck-Sr
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes
<davew> Just a thought I had, could Kiosk be installed on Ubuntu
<Ahmuck-Sr> davew, yes
#edubuntu 2009-08-18
<alkisg> !ltspfsd
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ltspfsd
<alkisg> !info ltspfsd
<ubottu> ltspfsd (source: ltspfs): Fuse based remote filesystem daemon for LTSP thin clients. In component main, is optional. Version 0.5.10-0ubuntu1 (jaunty), package size 23 kB, installed size 168 kB
<alkisg> !info ltspfsd-core
<ubottu> Package ltspfsd-core does not exist in jaunty
<alkisg> Hmmm
<alkisg> I've debianized ~30 greek educational apps, and I'd like to put them in a DVD similar to the edubuntu add-on CD, so that when the users inserted the DVD, update-manager would be automatically invoked to install packages. How would I do that?
<dgroos> Good Morning!
<dgroos> Schools starting soon and server's ailing--I can't authenticate into Synaptic.
<dgroos> When I try to launch Synaptic via the menu it won't let me authenticate, but when I sudo synaptic it works fine.
<dgroos> I'm also having lots of problems getting FreeNX and iTALC working.  I wonder if the issue is connected?
<dgroos> Also, can't get firefox to launch as localapp with ltsp-localapps firefox, anymore.  it was working...
<dgroos> ...been googling for almost a week... no luck!
<sbalneav> How do you do authentication?
<sbalneav> Local password, ldap, etc?
<dgroos> sbalneav: I forgot to mention, I've only got this problem with synaptic on a thin client--on the server I can authenticate into synaptic!
<dgroos> I use local password, at least I don't use LDAP
<dgroos> Although!  I think this problem started when I added a program to start to look into ldap authentication...
<dgroos> ... and there were some installation questions it asked me when I was installing it--think I pretty much skipped through the questions...  I bet I messed up :(
<dgroos> according to the old logs... It was: auth-client-config, libpam-ldap, and libnss-ldap that I installed.
<sbalneav> yep, that would screw uyour config
<dgroos> :(
<dgroos> hmmm... from a bug report I think I found someone who might be able to help... I'll get back...
<alkisg> I have a repository with educational apps, how can I put them in a DVD so that update-manager would be able to read the packages from it?
<sbalneav> alkisg: Not sure.  Is it already an actual *repo* or just a collection of .deb's?
<alkisg> It's a repo
<alkisg> I tried putting the /pool and /dist folders in a CD, but update-manager didn't like it :)
<alkisg> And I'm seeing a reference about a /disk folder in the apt-cdrom man page, but I can't find any info about it...
<sbalneav> Not sure, then.
<sbalneav> I've created web repos before (long ago), but never a cddrom one
<alkisg> If you've done that long ago, I bet you haven't seen reprepro... it makes maintaning a repo really really easy
<sbalneav> heh, I did it manually using apt and dpkg tools :)
<sbalneav> Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it.
#edubuntu 2009-08-19
<Ahmuck-Sr> something odd's going on with the server.  photos that are copied to the folder are not all there
<Ahmuck-Sr> i've got a raided drive, and every now and then it says drive numbering has changed.  could this be the cause, it's not mirroring correctly ?
<sbalneav> yeah, sounds like data corruption.
<sbalneav> You've got backups, yes?
<sbalneav> If not:
<sbalneav> 1) stop writing right now.
<sbalneav> 2) take a backup
<sbalneav> 3) take another backup
<sbalneav> 4) fix raid array
<sbalneav> New builds for Sabayon being published in my ppa
<mhall119> sbalneav: is Sabayon for Gnome only?
<sbalneav> mhall119: yep
<mhall119> anything like it for XFCE?
<mhall119> I assume Sabayon just works on gconf?
<sbalneav> Does gconf magic, allows you to place default files in home directory, some mozilla and openoffice defaults too.
<sbalneav> Evening ace
<alkisg> !seen LaserJock
<ubottu> I have no seen command
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> alkisg: That cool command is only in #ltsp
<alkisg> Good afternoon. Bah, the bot here sucks :-/
<sbalneav> not in the ghetto ubuntu channels where they can't run a decent bot :)
<alkisg> To be fair, this one also has some nice things, like...
<alkisg> !info sabayon
<ubottu> sabayon (source: sabayon): system administration tool to manage GNOME desktop settings. In component main, is optional. Version 2.22.1-0ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 117 kB, installed size 3044 kB
<Ahmuck-Sr> has anybody here seen the progress  made on the sabayon editor, lockdown, and deskto editor ?
<sbalneav> per your question, no.
<sbalneav> At least, not entirely
<Ahmuck-Sr> sabayon working now is a great achievement imho.  kudos to you
<sbalneav> Firefox and OpenOffice.org are part of the the "new breed" of applications that don't simply read their config files, but need to write to them too.
<sbalneav> What you would be able to do with firefox would be to provide a "user.js" file for some defaults/
<sbalneav> Anything in your .xsession-errors about sabayon-apply?
<Ahmuck-Sr> i know that some peeps, lns, alkisg (?) had been working on something similar.  sabayon works great for what it's doing but i'm wondering about the expandability of it
 * Ahmuck-Sr grumbles about applications changing the way things worked
<sbalneav> AFAIK, they're reviving TCM which controls terminalsm not profiles.
<sbalneav> but where's their website?
 * alkisg has no part in tcm-ng
<Ahmuck-Sr> anywho, the whole menu is wonderful
<Ahmuck-Sr> the lockdown is wonderful
<Ahmuck-Sr> i'm wondering how far now sabayon can be taken.  i understand it is a complicated beast
 * alkisg would like to develop a user-manager coupled with locked down capabilities some day...
<sbalneav> Yes it is.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i guess i'm looking down the road, and wondering if a push shouldn't be started to get a flexible type of user/group/class, etc manager with plugin in options for apps
<Ahmuck-Sr> for example, i'd like to be able to lock scribus options to start, ie page size, margins, auto text frames, etc.  (dont' even know if this is possible)
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: sure, that's what I'm thinking about, but what do you mean "push"? Push who?
<sbalneav> It can be taken as far as people have time, and effort, to move it.  I'm basically committed to becoming an upstream contributor for sabayon
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Unless you'd like to write something new from scratch, I think sabayon's it.  :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg: in general, a push in that direction
 * alkisg thinks developers are needed, not pushing :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> i think sabayon is wonderful, and i'll be using it to death, but i'm wondering how complicated it is to modify
<sbalneav> Hugely
<Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg: i think you misunderstand "push" in the context i'm using it in
<Ahmuck-Sr> push == define direction
<sbalneav> Sigh.
<alkisg> Yeah I get what you mean..
<alkisg> There's a lot of "defining directions" in edubuntu, and only a little "implementing" - like sbalneav does
<sbalneav> I've been over this about 1*10^999999999 times
<mhall119|work> I bet that's exageration
<sbalneav> People can "push" all they want.
<sbalneav> Butt. In. Chairs. Writing. Code.
<sbalneav> THAT gets things done.
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Sr: why don't you start a Launchpad project and start making blueprints
<Ahmuck-Sr> lot's of us have no coding ablities at all
<sbalneav> My butts in my chair working on Sabayon.  Lets concentrate on THAT for the moment.  Like I say, anything in your .xsession-errors?
 * mhall119|work 's butt is coding for employment at the moment
<Ahmuck-Sr> but we understand teachers, administrators and their needs, and what it's going to take to get it into the school systems
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: And lots of us who do don't want to have to start projects from scratch again, but would rather fix things that are already there.
<sbalneav> Can you see anything in your .xsession-errors file regarding an error from sabayon-apply?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr?
<Ahmuck-Sr> brb
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://pastebin.be/20404
<Ahmuck-Sr> does sabayon save settings, ie, proxy settings in firefox?
<Ahmuck-Sr> one of the things were going to encounter is needing a proxy for all kids under 18, but customized bookmarks for children between age groups, ie, 0-5, 6-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-18
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: AFAIK, proxy's are not saved by sabayon, but, as I indicated before, you COULD use sabayon (i think) to distribute a custom user.js file.
<sbalneav> Or, even better, and much more fool proof: just set up transparent proxying.
<Ahmuck-Sr> we've got a box with ipcop and transparent proxy.  our isp offers two different types of proxy, one for adults, and one for kids
 * Ahmuck-Sr thinks that a custom user.js file might be best
<Ahmuck-Sr> mhall119|work: blueprints for classroom managment?
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/231-touchtable.html
<Ahmuck-Sr> 59,000, however this table is possible for about 300.00
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck-Sr: blueprints for whatever management tool you want
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: did you get my pastebin?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Yes.  Doesn't appear that the profile for "user" was found.
<Ahmuck-Sr> not sure what that means
<sbalneav> What's the contents of /etc/desktop-profiles/users.xml, and what zip files do you ahve in that directory?
<sbalneav> Well, you're logging in as "user" right?
<Ahmuck-Sr> no, as myself.  i did a search and replace and replaced me with user
<sbalneav> ok, so what does the contents of your user.xml look like?
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://pastebin.be/20406
<Ahmuck-Sr> often we get parents in that have trouble getting their kids to quit.  i'm thinking i can terminate their session with iTalc
<sbalneav> ok, so you said you were logging as yourself, which you've mapped to "user" in your pastebin.  In the users.xml, you've got users "class1, class2, and class3" mapped to the profile.  So unless you also add YOURSELF as using the profile, you won't get it.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i logged in as class1
<Ahmuck-Sr> so i need to add myself so class1 can see the profile?
<sbalneav> ok, I'm confused.
 * Ahmuck-Sr knows
<sbalneav> When you pasted the .xsession-errors, you pasted as yourself, correct?
<Ahmuck-Sr> created profile "Children"
<Ahmuck-Sr> then added users class1 - 3
<Ahmuck-Sr> then booted thin client, and logged in as class1
<Ahmuck-Sr> profile is default, not modified with sabayon
<Ahmuck-Sr> ah, yes
<Ahmuck-Sr> pasted as myself.  so ur wanting the thin client .xsession-errors
<sbalneav> ok, and could you then paste class1's .xsession-errors so I can see if there's any errors from sabayon-apply?
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://pastebin.be/20407
<sbalneav> Ah, that's better.
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav> MainThread 2009/08/19 12:16:02.4299 (sabayon-apply): Applying profile '/etc/desktop-profiles/Children.zip' for user 'class1'
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav> MainThread 2009/08/19 12:16:02.7594 (sabayon-apply): Fatal exception!  Exiting abnormally.
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav> MainThread 2009/08/19 12:16:02.7606 (sabayon-apply): Traceback (most recent call last):
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/usr/sbin/sabayon-apply", line 111, in <module>
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>     profile.apply (is_sabayon_session)
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/userprofile.py", line 392, in apply
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>     delegate.apply (is_sabayon_session)
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/sources/mozillasource.py", line 454, in apply
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>     target_pref.read()
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/sources/mozillasource.py", line 664, in read
<sbalneav> #
<Ahmuck-Sr> ?
<sbalneav>     self.parse()
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/sources/mozillasource.py", line 718, in parse
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>     (match.start(), match.end(), key, value))
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/sources/mozillasource.py", line 76, in dprint
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav>     debuglog.debug_log (False, debuglog.DEBUG_LOG_DOMAIN_MOZILLA_SOURCE, fmt % args)
<sbalneav> #
<sbalneav> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
<sbalneav> So, looks like there's a munched dprint somewhere
<sbalneav> mozillasource.py line 76
<sbalneav> checking
<Ahmuck-Sr> ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1429:(_snd_pcm_hw_open) Invalid value for card
<Ahmuck-Sr> ALSA lib pulse.c:272:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused
 * Ahmuck-Sr thinks that's my sound issue
<Ahmuck-Sr> well, i'll be here, but need to step away for a bit and get some pressing issues elsewhere corrected
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: ok, found the bug.
<sbalneav> I'll fix it, and push a new version
<Ahmuck-Sr> u r so kewl
<alkisg> Yey! After struggling for some hours, I finally got gnome-app-install to recognize my edu-app CD as an add-on :) http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/gnome-app-install.png
 * alkisg wishes there was documentation on how to build such an add-on CD :-/
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Ping
<Ahmuck-Sr> pong
<sbalneav> Hey, should be a 0ubuntu3 package for sabayon
<Ahmuck-Sr> what is your app?
<sbalneav> if you've got a minute, give it a go, see if it works.  Hopefully sabayon-apply should succeed now.
<sbalneav> My PPA?
<sbalneav> Have you added it to your sources.list yet?
<sbalneav> If you do that, then you'll just get the updates as I make 'em
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: see custard ?
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: working on it
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: See my response?
<sbalneav> Not even worth worrying about until we see source.
<Ahmuck-Sr> source posted
<sbalneav> Ah, ok, he's just done it.
<sbalneav> At this point, I've got 3 months worth of work invested in Sabayon.
<sbalneav> If I stop working on it now, to try to learn a new codebase, we won't have anything for karmic.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i wouldn't advise ditching sabayon yet
<sbalneav> So at this point, I'm just going to continue on with getting Sabayon going.
<sbalneav> After karmic's out the door, then we can evaluate what'll be better.
<Ahmuck-Sr> well, i wasn't saying one was better than the other, and i'm using sabayon right now
<Ahmuck-Sr> no go
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: no change on client
<sbalneav> Clean out class1's .xsession-errors with a :> .xsession-error, log out and in again as class1, and pastebot the .xsession-error
<sbalneav> prolly another crasher in there.
<sbalneav> I'm at work, and we're running hardy here, so I can't test it myself until later.
<sbalneav> hey dgroos
<sbalneav> You available tonight?
<dgroos> howdy sbalneav!
<dgroos> Well... it's my wife's birthday :)
<sbalneav> Ah
<dgroos> What you working on?
<dgroos> Just kidding
<sbalneav> Well, as someone who's been married 18 years, I can sympathise that that would be more important :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> wife's birthday == !available
<dgroos> Sabayon :)
<sbalneav> Old joke:
<sbalneav> Two Vikings are sitting in a pub
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://pastebin.be/20409
<dgroos> Ah good, a Viking Joke for a Minnesotan!
<sbalneav> One says to the other: "I want to perform a deed that will be remembered and talked about for the rest of my days!!"
<sbalneav> Other viking says: "That's easy: just forget your wife's birthday"
<sbalneav> :)
<dgroos> :)
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: LOL
<dgroos> Yes, in our 21 years married I've made more than 1 memorable act :)
<sbalneav> Fixed ONE bug in that line, now there's another one.
<dgroos> How's Sabayon going?
<sbalneav> OK
<sbalneav> Well, we're definitely making progress
<dgroos> YES!
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: OK, how you feel about a little direct editing? :)
<sbalneav> lets go to:
<dgroos> It has been exciting.
<sbalneav> /var/lib/python-support/python2.6/sabayon/sources
<sbalneav> and open up mozillasource.py
<sbalneav> right, and now joshiggins (hi josh, I see you there) has another new toy to play with
<joshiggins> Hello
<dgroos> Yes, hi Josh
<Ahmuck-Sr> been there
<Ahmuck-Sr> er there already
<sbalneav> hokiedoke
<dgroos> and Ahmuck-Sr.
<sbalneav> lets go down to line 717
<sbalneav> and just comment out the two lines that compose the dprint
<sbalneav> joshiggins: I'd love to look at custard, but I'm far enough into sabayon that at this point, it makes more sense to   continue that on for the moment.
<joshiggins> No problem
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: i've tested it, and it crashes
<joshiggins> ah
<joshiggins> A good sign
<joshiggins> Any message?
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: # iirc ?  for commenting out
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: not sure yet.  when it didn't worked i purged it
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: will it work on a system that has sabayon on as well?
<sbalneav> # is correct
<Ahmuck-Sr> or is there a conflict
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: and now save ?
<sbalneav> Yessir
<joshiggins> Ahmuck-Sr: Shouldn't conflict...
<sbalneav> joshiggins: Did you just write this?
<sbalneav> Or has this been in development for a bit?
<joshiggins> sbalneav: I wrote some scripts a while back but packaged it up recently with a GUI in Gambas
<sbalneav> You committed to the idea of gambas?  Or if we were to look at getting a python/glade interface going, would that be ok with you?
<sbalneav> Reason why is: gambas isn't in main
<joshiggins> sbalneav: Sounds like a better idea
<sbalneav> So if we switch at some point to custard, it means pulling in/having to promote a bunch more packages.
<sbalneav> ok
<joshiggins> Yeah I see what you mean
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Any improvement?
<sbalneav> I'm definitely interested.  I'll have a look at it tonight, for sure.
<sbalneav> I think I saw someone ask.  GPL?
<joshiggins> Yes its all GPL
<sbalneav> And the really *big* question: you in this for the long haul? :)
<joshiggins> Definately
<sbalneav> Well, that's a + in custard's favour then :)
<joshiggins> :)
<sbalneav> Here's what I'd suggest we do:::::
<sbalneav> why are my keys reeeepeating sometimes?
<sbalneav> bleh
<sbalneav> Lets get sabayon working to the point where we have SOMETHING for karmic.  Getting a brand-new-never-seen-before package in the door at this point's going to be next to impossible.
<Ahmuck-Sr> no change
<sbalneav> Still dying on that line in xsessiooooon-erros?
<sbalneav> ahhhhhh
<sbalneav> gh
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Email me your .zip profile in /etc/destop-profiles, so I can play with it tonight.
<Ahmuck-Sr> no change
<Ahmuck-Sr> pm ur e-mail
<sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp.org
<sbalneav> it's pretty public :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: what i saw about using the .config files is what interested me
<sbalneav> joshiggins: then, post karmic, lets re-do the interface python/glade, and we'll want to switch to Xephyr from Xnest.  Xnest's "dead upstream", and Xephyr handles more of the X extentions than Xnest does.
<sbalneav> If custard's going to fit the bill, lets push to get it ready to rock-and-roll for the LTS release.
<joshiggins> Sounds like a plan
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: i've a question, does sabayon deal with kde apps?  and other adds?
<sbalneav> no, sabayon's Gnome only
<dgroos> sbalneav: I've got commitments through much of tomorrow but can put in an hour or two starting at 5:30 or 6:30 tomorrow morning.  Also, can do an hour or two tomorrow night.  I think you are in the same time zone as I? (4:08 PM here).
<sbalneav> Yep
<sbalneav> I'm in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
<sbalneav> Tomorrow night would be fine.
<dgroos> Yes, I've seen your sig--I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: u going to the conference in september?
<dgroos> Good, I'll get on line...
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Which, Ubuntu?
<dgroos> hmmm... let me show my ignorance--which conference?
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: would custard allow me to do kde and gnome ?
<sbalneav> Nah, rocket man doesn't like me anymore :)
<joshiggins> Ahmuck-Sr: yes, as long as everything is put in .dot files in the user's home dir
<alkisg> joshiggins: how do you deal with paths? E.g. if a configuration file contains /home/username1, does that change to /home/username2 when it's applied to user2?
<alkisg> (e.g. wallpaper=/home/username1/firefox_wallpaper.png ==> wallpaper=/home/username2/firefox_wallpaper.png)
<joshiggins> alkisg: put simply, not yet
<alkisg> k..
<joshiggins> i'd imagine that paths such as that should use $home in place of username1,2 etc
<Ahmuck-Sr> i saw it psoted in ltsp yesterday
<sbalneav> Okay peoples, I'm heading off home for dinner.  Be on in the evening.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: I'll look at your profile, see if I can duplicate your error.
<Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg: weren't u or lns working on something?
<sbalneav> Keep watching (the skies|my PPA)
<sbalneav> cheers
<alkisg> joshiggins: that would be ideal, but unfortunately when a user sets the wallpaper, $HOME isn't used...
<Ahmuck-Sr> i'm stepping out for a bit myself
<alkisg> ciao sbalneav
<dgroos> sbalneav--conference?
<joshiggins> alkisg: ah, okay....
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: no, Lns is working on tcm-ng, and I'm thinking of starting a task-based profile editor, but it's months or years away...
<Ahmuck-Sr> task based ?
 * Ahmuck-Sr looks up tcm-ng
<alkisg> Yeah, to avoid problems with paths etc
<alkisg> E.g. a specific plugin to change the gnome-wallpaper, another one for kde wallpaper,
<alkisg> another one to clear the firefox cache etc
<Ahmuck-Sr> isn't a desktop just a desktop in ubuntu
<Ahmuck-Sr> kinda "unified" or "ubuntu-fied"
<alkisg> ubuntu != kubuntu
<alkisg> (gnome != kde)
<joshiggins> alksig: if these paths are stored in text files( e.g. dump of gconf tree) surely a script could run through and replace occurences of username1 with username2
<alkisg> joshiggins: the problem is that search and replace won't know the context, where to actually do the replacing
<alkisg> So if a user is named "a" and the second user "b", there's going to be a problem... :)
<alkisg> banana => bbnbnb :D
<joshiggins> alksig: Ah yes, we're assuming each username is going to be unique
<joshiggins> which wouldn't work
<dgroos> alksig--not following all you are saying, can you manage privledges by groups, such as a 'level1' group, level2 group etc, then just move students in and out of groups?  or, is that kind of the way the Sabayon works?
<alkisg> dgroos: applying the profiles is a totally different problem
<dgroos> That way one could just manage users with a program such as 'users and groups'.
<dgroos> I'm thinking about how Apple does it with their Workgroup Manager.
<dgroos> They may have changed it since I used it regularly 3 years ago.
<alkisg> dgroos: yeah, that's what I was thinking, e.g. see here a mocup i've made: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png
<dgroos> second to last column PID, last GID?
<alkisg> Yeah but columns should be configurable, so not really important
<dgroos> sure
<alkisg> Users should be able to be read from passwd or ldap etc...
<Ahmuck-Sr> manage groups, users, machines
<Ahmuck-Sr> and appliations
<dgroos> 'read from' = 'authenticate'???
<joshiggins> this seems like its rolling 3 utilities into 1
<joshiggins> explaination:
<alkisg> I meant that the program should be able to retrieve the user list from either /etc/passwd, or ldap, or other sources
<Ahmuck-Sr> i had an outline once, but i'm a bit sleepy and tired currently
<dgroos> Teachers like parallel structure--less to learn...
<Ahmuck-Sr> server boots, identifies machines & hardware
<alkisg> joshiggins: yes, I think that profile management is better if integrated with users/groups management
 * alkisg is a teacher
<Ahmuck-Sr> user manager or group manager allows lock of certian devices
<Ahmuck-Sr> applications, etc.
<Ahmuck-Sr> we hit the problem of managing groups and on occasion an errant user
<Ahmuck-Sr> so user needs to belong to multiple groups
<dgroos> alkisg: cool--what/where do you teach?
<alkisg> dgroos: Greece, Ioannina
<joshiggins> alkisg: I'd agree with that
<alkisg> joshiggins: the problem is that users-admin is C-based, and won't easily support plugins, and isn't easily extensible
<alkisg> So a new users manager should be written first, and the profile-editing plugins would come later...
<alkisg> Fedora has such a manager, but it's too distro specific :-/
<dgroos> alkisg: At the University?  Computer science might I guess :)
<alkisg> dgroos: no, secondary schools (12-18 y.o.), and yes, I teach computer-related lessons
<joshiggins> I'm currently at secondary school in England
<dgroos> alkisg: cool.  You have a link to your program and can it localize in English or Spanish?
<dgroos> joshiggins: you teaching or studying there?
<alkisg> dgroos: it's not a complete program yet; I was just trying out pygtk. It'll take me months to write such a program
<Ahmuck-Sr> i understand pardus has an editor as well as suse
<Ahmuck-Sr> are they distro specific as well?
<joshiggins> studying there, although the ICT faculty is a joke
<dgroos> I actually meant info about your school/classes.
<joshiggins> Well I'm studying ICT here, 1 year left
<dgroos> joshiggins: cool, secondary in England is 15-18 year olds? or ?
<joshiggins> yes, I'm 17 :)
<dgroos> alkisg: actually, I was asking if you had a link to a page telling about your school (by program I meant your department or curriculum or classes).
<alkisg> Ah ok sorry
<alkisg> Well I don't have one specific school - in Greece most schools are public, and some teachers go to a different school each year
<alkisg> ...and all of them have the same classes
<dgroos> joshiggins--you know, one thing so cool about irc (ok I'm a newB) is that it provides a space for us all to meet, and what one thinks and says is what matters :)
<dgroos> joshiggins: nice to have you at #edubuntu, hope you stick around.
<dgroos> alkisg: teachers move around here as well, though not so much.
<joshiggins> dgroos: Nice to meet you, I've been using irc for 43 mins now :)
<alkisg> dgroos: here's some stuff about the greek edu system: http://www.ekep.gr/english/education/deuterobathmia.asp
<dgroos> Also, every teacher has his/her own curriculum, more or less, but the educational goals--called 'standards' at the moment, are mandated as are testing.
<alkisg> dgroos: at some point teachers here go to a specific school until they retire; but in my city there are too many informatics teachers, and I'll need maybe 20 years to be appointed to a specific school :( (I've been a teacher for 10 years so far)
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks I'll check it out.
<joshiggins> alkisg: Do you use Linux for teaching?
<alkisg> Yes, I've been using ubuntu/ltsp in the last 2 years, in 2 different schools
<Ahmuck-Sr> we do
<dgroos> Your situation is similar to here then, for ICT teachers, that is.  Sorry to hear about that.
<dgroos> joshiggins: cool, someone even newer than I! ;)
<dgroos> Ahmuck-Sr--ever get your server going again after the power outage in the community space you have developed?
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes, i'm on it :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> ordered to fast, and ordered the wrong psu, so i was down a week
<Ahmuck-Sr> and a half
<dgroos> :(
<Ahmuck-Sr> *shrugs* ... it works now.  mostly
<joshiggins> Ahmuck-Sr: back to sabayon now?
<dgroos> and I'm heading home.  Nice chatting.
<Ahmuck-Sr> joshiggins: for the time being, yes
#edubuntu 2009-08-20
<Lns> For your idle reading pleasure: http://blog.logicalnetworking.net/index.php/lnsblogs/the-false-focus-of-technology-in-educati?blog=5
<sbalneav> Sigh.  Haven't solved the problems yet, but I *do* understand them a lot more :)
<joshiggins_> hi #edubuntu
<Plisk> joshiggins_: Hi Josh!
<joshiggins_> Plisk: What TZ you in?
<Plisk> joshiggins_: GMT+3, you ?
<joshiggins_> GMT+0
<joshiggins_> Its very quiet
<Plisk> UK ?
<Plisk> yea, quite a bit
<joshiggins_> Yes UK
<Plisk> nice, quite a lot of ppl i talk and see recently from UK :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<dgroos> Hi All
<dgroos> While working on a thin client I open Synaptic from the menu.  It asks me to authenticate, I put in my password and it doesn't accept it, and up pops the authentication dialog box, again.
<dgroos> HOwever, if I type sudo synaptic in the terminal, put in my password, synaptic opens!
<dgroos> And
<dgroos> If I'm sitting at the server, I CAN open synaptic via a menu with no problem.
<dgroos> this started a week or two ago--time blurs.
<dgroos> any ideas?
#edubuntu 2009-08-21
<dgroos> good evening all
<dgroos> sbalneav, I've been experimenting with Sabayon--want some log files?
<sbalneav> Nah, paneldelegate's pretty broken, and probably the source of most of the problems now.
<sbalneav> I've got it failing quite a bit.
<sbalneav> Oh, as for your auth problem, have you tried restarting dbus?
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> Might have a new version.
<sbalneav> huh
<sbalneav> lots of panel operations, no dumps or crashers.
<sbalneav> We may have a winner here
<sbalneav> ok New version of sabayon pushed.
<Lns> sbalneav: !! =)
<Lns> you rock and stuff
<sbalneav> I'm not smart.
<sbalneav> just doggedly determined :)
<Lns> you must be getting a pretty good grip on gconf through all this, eh?
<sbalneav> better than I did.
<sbalneav> here's the laugh: debian wants me to be the maintainer for sabayon  :)
<Lns> It would be interesting for you to do a braindump on what you think are relevant keys in gconf for ltsp type setups..almost like a master list of tweaks to make things work well/better
<Lns> nice! hahaha
<sbalneav> they've actually dropped the package since it's so brookeeen
<Lns> wow..that's saying a lot for debian... ;)
<sbalneav> Oh, that's easy
<sbalneav> take a look at the gnome administrators guide
<sbalneav> they've got a whole SECTION on gconf stuff for low bandwidth/low memory usage.
<sbalneav> it's actually a pretty good guide.
<sbalneav> hold on, I'll find the link
<Lns> wow
<dgroos> Sbalneav--I did a lengthly test of Sabayon and it seem basically ready for prime time :)
<Lns> well i've read most/all of the gconf section of the gag
<sbalneav> http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/2.26/system-admin-guide.html
<sbalneav> dgroos: Check the one building now when it's done
<sbalneav> 0ubuntu4
<sbalneav> I've (I think) fixed several crasher bugs that were in paneldelegate.py
<dgroos> I created a limited user profile, eliminating most games etc.
<Lns> sbalneav: well also what i was thinking was lockdown / multi-user geared keys
<dgroos> Then I applied it to a couple of users. that too went fine,
<Lns> sbalneav: did you see my paste from yesterday?
<dgroos> then I logged in as one of those users and... it worked!
<sbalneav> Good, I'm glad we're making some progress
<sbalneav> Lns: yeah, you were crashing in paneldelegate.
<Lns> ah
<Lns> what about the 12/24hr time changes, desktop launcher stuff?
<Lns> same deal?
<sbalneav> yeah
<Lns> sweeeet
<sbalneav> I think
<Lns> hehe
 * Lns will test
<sbalneav> exactly
<sbalneav> wait 'till this versions up on lunchpad
<Lns> eta?
<sbalneav> just dputted it
<sbalneav> usually takes about 10 minutes to build
 * Lns suggests a new nickname for launchpad...lunchbox
<sbalneav> yeah, I usually call it lunchpad or lunchpod
<Lns> haha
<Lns> thought that was a typo ;)
<sbalneav> no, deliberate :)
<sbalneav> It'll be so nice when people ask "so how do I manage my desktop profiles?" and we don't have to say "...errr, ummm, welllll...."
<dgroos> Do I take this to mean that in a few minutes there will be a new version of sabayon to test in 10 or so minutes?
<sbalneav> yeppers
<Lns> ogra!
<sbalneav> Evening ogra
<Lns> sbalneav: agreed. I am looking forward to having a whole set of apps stable and ready to make any ltsp admin's life easier =)
<Lns> I definitely think we should make a metapackage for the apps once they are all ready (and add more later as they become ready). I'm totally willing to do docs for them all, and even videos
<sbalneav> ok, build's done
<Lns> xvidcap is awesome =)
<dgroos> OK--I got an e-mail from someone in Ghana asking for my help in setting up a server.
<dgroos> Must have thought I knew something because I'm working at it :)
<dgroos> However, it did give me a huge idea...
<dgroos> I've been working all summer (literally) on setting up this jaunty server.
<dgroos> Well, when I'm done I'll clone it and put it on 2 other servers for 2 other GCoS classrooms as well.
<dgroos> Here's the idea...
<dgroos> I bet someone who knew what they were doing could set up a great server w/localapps etc in just a couple of days time (right?)
<dgroos> Then, put this image available on line--people can download it and with clonezilla (works for beginners such as myself) burn it onto their server and voila!
<dgroos> Of course there need to be parameters such as a 2 nic system, but really, not much else, I think.
<dgroos> Cool, ay?
<Lns> dgroos: good idea, though it's trivial enough to get ltsp going through ubuntu alternate CD..the only things you really have to do by yourself you'd want to anyway (IP network, # of NICs, localapps installed, etc)
<Lns> Maybe there's a way to integrate the alternate CD installer for LTSP in a package?
<Lns> (I think I asked ogra that a while back and he said it wouldn't work that way)
<dgroos> OK, may seem trivial--but I've been working, with knowledgeable people's help for WELL over 1 hundred hours this summer!
<Lns> dgroos: what were your major hangups?
<dgroos> Ahh... let me see what I can dredge up...
<dgroos> iTALC, still not working
<dgroos> Local apps and NAT
<dgroos> Local Apps were working but aren't now
<Lns> sbalneav: hmm, feature request of confirmation dialogue when removing a profile?
<dgroos> Installing CmapTools on the chroot to use it as a local app.
<Lns> dgroos: what's cmaptools?
<dgroos> Making flash work satisfactorily
<sbalneav> I'd have to dig into the gui code for that.  I'm pretty bad at ui's but it makes sense.
<dgroos> CmapTools is the cat's meow.
<Lns> sbalneav: yeah.. i was just surprised not to be presented with one
<dgroos> it's not open source though--just free ware :(
<Lns> dgroos: what was the hangup with flash? that's got to be the easiest thing :)
<sbalneav> What I'd rather have first is a way to apply profiles based on GROUP membership, as opposed to userid
<Lns> sbalneav: +1
<Lns> or either?
<Lns> sabayon acls ;)
<dgroos> it's a concept mapping tool that has a server component so several people can simultaneously concept map on the same map!
<sbalneav> well, we can do it easily enough as a shell script, but I'd like that at least to be in the gui
<Lns> dgroos: interesting
<dgroos> Lns: to gnash or not?
<Lns> dgroos: is gnash even usable yet?
<dgroos> Well, I didn't know that...
<Lns> hehe
<dgroos> Things are supposed to work but... only if you know detail x...
<Lns> there's a great howto on the ubuntu ltsp page for installing flash (written by yours truly ;) )
<dgroos> And, I'm sure I've used it!!!  (thanks!)
<Lns> dgroos: well its a license issue too.. but there's a flashplayer-nonfree package iirc that does it for you (though it's usually not the latest/greatest)
<dgroos> As a matter of fact, we (and I say we because a local volunteer has been helping tons) are currently trying to get firefox to run as a local app again and... for several hours haven't had any luck!
<dgroos> As a matter of fact...
<dgroos> that volunteer, jimrockford, is sitting next to me at my dining room table at this very moment, trying to get it working...
<jimrockfor> yo
<dgroos> So, while it seems that it is a bunch of trivial things, really, really it isn't.
<Lns> haha
<dgroos> I'm very excited about Sabayon and think I'll give the new update a run...
<sbalneav> I'd be interested in any crashers you get.
<Lns> i can't really help w/localapps..perhaps one might pick up the 'ltsp-manager' project ogra started a while ago, or maybe pick up the 'easy-ltsp' software to integrate easy install/configure of localapps in the chroot
<dgroos> Hmmm... I'll check into them.
<Lns> neither one will do any good for edubuntu right now..they need to be worked on
<Lns> sbalneav: any cleanup necessary for users that have been 'used' before for profiles ? I'm still getting a bunch of settings not applied
<Lns> i'll try with a new user too
<dgroos> I'll try with a new user as well...
<Lns> basically nothing worked with an existing user except for a (nonfunctional) desktop launcher i created (I changed background, 12->24hr time, removed applets and added new ones, changed gtk theme)..
<Lns> new user works :)
<dgroos> Hey--should sabayon-admin have a home directory?
<Lns> sbalneav: another request :) when exiting profile editor, a dialogue to prompt on saving it?
<dgroos> BTW--I'm using KUser instead of GNOME's Users and Groups app.  Hope this won't cause problems with sabayon since it is KDE not GNOME?
<Lns> holy crap, the lockdown section is awesome!
<Lns> !!!
<Lns> wow...everything is looking good at first edit of a new user. I'll have to try editing existing users, using them to change things, then logging out/in/changing in sabayon...
<Lns> I'm out for the night..thanks sbalneav for all the good work!! I can't believe how extensive this tool is getting
<dgroos_> Have a good eve Lns.  sbalneav--I'll be doing a good bit of sabayon testing this eve...
<Lns> bye dgroos_ =)
<dgroos_> sbalneav: I'm editing user profile: "level1".
<dgroos_> Now, jimrockford got firefox to again work as a localapp (!yea!)
<dgroos_> So... I launch firefox in the user profile but I don't know if it is running locally--wait this doesn't make sense to ask...
<sbalneav> it won't be.
<dgroos_> right.
<dgroos_> scratch my question.
<sbalneav> And I have absolutely NO idea how well Sabayon will work with localapps.
<dgroos_> so--since you are here-- if I disallow erasing the history or set some particular proxy in the firefox prefs, can I get that so the student can't change the prefs?
<sbalneav> I'm not an expert in Firefox lockdown myself.
<sbalneav> Heh, got two kids, but never needed to lockdown anything :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> ur the exception
<Ahmuck-Sr> nn, got to go
<dgroos_> I've got 2 and never did with them either, but
<dgroos_> Later Ahumck-Sr
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: remember, this education, and kids will do all kinds of things, not just ur kids
<sbalneav> heh, remember, I don't work in education :)
<dgroos_> For sure.  In idle time I've considered analogies to help non-teachers understand this.
<sbalneav> I understand it completely
<sbalneav> I just don't happen to agree with it.
<sbalneav> I don't think education is served by locking enquiring minds out of things, myself, personally :)
<dgroos_> Well... I'd hazard a guess that if you were a middle school teacher for a week you would reframe that principle...
<dgroos_> like, we don't let kids drive when they want--we expect them to have a certain level of skill and maturity.
<sbalneav> I volunteered lots at schools, and taught several volunteer classes on Chess, Computers, etc.
<dgroos_> I don't want to start to argue against free and inquiring minds--that polarizes things.
<sbalneav> And there's a big difference between driving a car, and driving a computer.  If one mishandles a car, one can kill oneself, or others.  If one mishandles a computer, the wost that happens is an account reset/restore, or a reboot :)
<sbalneav> However, I'm here to provide the working tool for people to do the lockdown who want it.
<dgroos_> Very true.  That wasn't my point at all.
<dgroos_> It's like a paradox--you have to create the space (the environment, the task, the social sphere, etc) so that it is both bounded (ie  has limits--provides limited choices) and is unbounded (ie encourages free-creative thinking).
<dgroos_> without the first you have chaos, without the second you have prisons.
<dgroos_> So... when properly used, Sabayon will help allow for creative, fun, learning community.
<dgroos_> I'll step of my soap box now :)
<sbalneav> You don't have to convince me, I know people want it, that's why I'm working on it.
<sbalneav> I disagree with the principle myself personally, but I don't allow my personal philosophy to colour what needs to be done for the sake of edubuntu.
<sbalneav> I am, however, never shy about sharing my opinions :)
<dgroos_> Thanks, over a beer sometime--I buy :)
<sbalneav> Well, lets see if others make out ok with this sabayon first before I kill off more braincells with beer :) I may kill the one that sort of understands the byzantine obfuscation that is paneldelegate.py :)
<sbalneav> After I get sabayon at least funtional, then I have to get (in the dwindling time left YIKES) the edubuntu handbook into some kind of shape
<sbalneav> I still haven't had a look at that new piece of software that's a sabayon replacement.  We'll need to evaluate which is best.
<sbalneav> What would be IDEAL (for people looking for proxy redirects) would be some kind of patch to firefox to have it use Gnome's standard proxy setting, rather than it's own built in stuff
<sbalneav> that way, an administrator could just set a mandatory gconf key ONCE, and the whole system would be proxied.
<sbalneav> Ho/win 2
<sbalneav> meh, too many windows open in irssi
<dgroos_> There are firefox extensions that do this, I think, though probably nothing for 3.5.
<sbalneav> extentions are their own nightmare.
<sbalneav> there doesn't seem to be a "good" way to install extentions globally
<dgroos_> yes--
<sbalneav> Linux used to be great for multi-user setups.  All configs were text files in /etc/. As an admin, you set things up, and everything just worked.  Of course, users if they wanted customizations either had to figure out how to create their own .files, or just deal with the deafults.
<dgroos_> I'm looking into squidguard, but that's another area of study...
<sbalneav> Now, things are so "easy to use", things are ALL customizable out of your $HOME, and it's next to impossble as an administrator to provide nice, neat global defaults.
<sbalneav> Lots of people use squidguard or dansguardian.
<sbalneav> Combine that with standard iptables transparent proxying, and you've got a nice, "non-overridable" solution.
<dgroos_> Ah... maybe next summer :)  Or, the district guy can help me on this if he makes the time but like all tech people in education he is way overbooked...
<dgroos_> You know--sabayon seems ready for prime time.  right?  I'm not getting error messages, things aren't crashing, they are just... working :)
<sbalneav> \o/
<sbalneav> I'll have to see if I can get someone to sponsor an upload.
<dgroos_> sponsor an upload?
<sbalneav> Well, these packages are only in my ppa
<sbalneav> for all my years of work on Edubuntu, I'm not actually authorized to upload anything to the "real" package archive :)
<dgroos_> hmmm... I've heard others frustrated about that, but you've got the years--have you requested permission?
<sbalneav> So, I'll have to get someone like LaserJock or HighVoltage to do it for me.
<sbalneav> Well, it's like debian: a meritocracy.  You have to:
<sbalneav> 1) "Pay your dues"
<sbalneav> 2) Prove your proficiency
<sbalneav> 3) Ask.
<sbalneav> I've done 1, certainly
<dgroos_> Well, I'm mighty impressed with your sabayon work and I've heard from several sources in the know that this is not easy stuff.
<sbalneav> 2) I'm never sure on, as I sometimes make mistakes, so it's unlikely I'll ever do 3
<sbalneav> Most people want to go directly to step 3, and when they find out they're expected to do a little work before they get the keys to the castle, they usually disappear pronto :)
<dgroos_> May be time to #3
<sbalneav> If I don't have the authority, I don't have to bear the responsibility :)
<sbalneav> I'm an old fart: I cut my teeth on the wget http://website/package.tar.gz ; tar xzvf package.tar.gz ; cd package; ./configure ; make install era
<sbalneav> all this fancy-schmancy packaging stuff comfuses me sometimes :)
<dgroos_> in Gregorian calendar that would be...?
<dgroos_> I max out at paper or plastic ;)
<sbalneav> I just turned 41
<sbalneav> Been using GNU/Linux since October 1993
<sbalneav> Been on the internet since 1985
<sbalneav> Been windows free since 1999 :)
<dgroos_> cool
<dgroos_> sbalneav: is there a way to make it so that at students in the entry level can't just right-click on the desktop and access their appearances preferences?
<sbalneav> I beleive that's in the "lockdown" section
<dgroos_> Thanks--I'll check tomorrow.  Something interesting.  When jimrockford was updating the chroot, it gave the messages that several things related to the 1 users Ive got in the test 'level1' group didn't get saved.  I'll try to recreate tomorrow and send you those lines from terminal.
<dgroos_> have a good eve :)
<sbalneav> thx
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you could put your packages up on revu if they're ready
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ping
<sbalneav> highvoltage: pong
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hi!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: have you ever uploaded something to revu before?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Remember, I'm completely sucky when it comes to packaging
<sbalneav> I'm not even motu. :)
<andv> highvoltage, any problem wih revu?
<highvoltage> andv: nope
<andv> highvoltage, I saw you asked to sbalneav before about revu
<andv> I thought you add some issues with it
<andv> * had
<highvoltage> sbalneav: no it's just that uploading to revu is the same as uploading to a PPA, so I wondered if you might want to upload the sabayon packages to revu, if we can get 2 people to review and approve we could get it in before feature freeze
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and from the sounds of it you're comfortable uploading to the PPA.
<ogra> highvoltage, its in main
<ogra> just give it to me and i'll upload ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: aah, so that also means that we don't have to worry about next week's feature freeze :)
<sbalneav> ok, how do I get it to you?  Is it something you can just grab from my ppa?
<ogra> its bugfixes allover
<ogra> feature freeze only applies to new upstream versions
<highvoltage> ogra: aah
<ogra> i'm assuming sbalneav's changes only apply ubuntuX revisions anyway
<sbalneav> Well, no
<sbalneav> it's using the latest upstream
<sbalneav> 2.27.91
<ogra> which should be in karmic, no ?
<sbalneav> 2.27.1 is in karmic
<ogra> 2.27.0-0ubuntu1
<ogra> aha
<ogra> its a minor bump, still fine
<sbalneav> yeah
<ogra> 2.28 would require an exception
<ogra> 2.27.1 should be fine
<sbalneav> .91
<highvoltage> ogra: here's where sbalneav's PPA is: https://edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/ppa
<ogra> and along that, all of gnome has a rolling exception anyway
<ogra> where does that .91 come from ?
<ogra> does upstream actually have a .91 release ?
<sbalneav> yes
<ogra> (and is your packaging based on the ubuntu package ?)
<sbalneav> just got released a couple of days ago, from some patches I sent upstream
<sbalneav> Yes, I think so, the debian dir I stole from the old version of sabayon
<ogra> how old
<sbalneav> umm
<ogra> could you repackage based on what is in karmic right now ?
<highvoltage> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/sabayon/2.27/
<sbalneav> the standard jaunty version
<ogra> else the merge is really hard
<ogra> (the ubuntu changes that are in atm need to be carried over)
<ogra> sabayon already had three or more uploads in karmic
<sbalneav> Yeah, my karmic box is at home, and powered off right now, but I could make a karmic ppa tonight
<ogra> cool !
<ogra> ping me if thats done
<sbalneav> Will do.
<ogra> base it on 2.27.0-0ubuntu1
<sbalneav> okiedoke
<ogra> (yours will need to be versioned 2.27.91-0ubuntu1 then)
<sbalneav> Well, the jaunty ones I have in my ppa are 2.27.91-0ubuntu4, right atm
<sbalneav> Will that cause a problem?
<ogra> no, but for karmic you should use a proper ubuntu versioning
<ogra> the version is ok for jaunty
<ogra> sbalneav, hmm, you should always use ~ppaX for your ppa packages
<ogra> (for the future :) )
<ogra> update-manager looks for that suffix and makes sure ~ppaX packages get superseded with the ones from the main archive on release upgrades
<ogra> uploading a jaunty 2.27.91-0ubuntu4~ppa1 will help
<ogra> (to your ppa, for people having it enabled in jaunty and upgrading to karmic)
<sbalneav> So, I should use (in the future) 2.27.91-0ubuntu~ppaX?
<sbalneav> dur
<sbalneav> you just said
<ogra> 2.27.91-0ubuntuX~ppaX
<sbalneav> geez, LEARN TO READ SBALNEAV
<ogra> preferably
 * sbalneav dopeslaps self
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> I can do that there thing
<highvoltage> ogra: LaserJock is inbetween Internet connections at the moment looking for a new house. could you perhaps sponsor some Edubuntu seed changes as well (assuming that I get to figure out exactly what must be done)
<ogra> sure
<alkisg> "What would be IDEAL (for people looking for proxy redirects) would be some kind of patch to firefox to have it use Gnome's standard proxy setting, rather than it's own built in stuff" ==> sbalneav this is possible now... you can tell firefox to use the default system proxy, and then use lockpref to lock down that setting.
<wima> i read here http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#session-dispatching that when LDM_SERVER is set, users cqn select a server from the list in LDM
<wima> Is this implemented in ubuntu 8.4?
<wima> sorry, i mean 9.04
<dgroos> sbalneav: is what alkisg is saying relate to what I asked you last night about locking down firefox prefs with Sabayon?
<alkisg> dgroos: http://www.pcc-services.com/kixtart/firefox-lockdown.html
<alkisg> This is firefox-based locking, not gnome-based. Works fine nevertheles..
<sbalneav> wima: yes, it is
<wima> i didn't see where to select the host though. maybe i overlooked
<sbalneav> On the login screen, lower right corner.
<sbalneav> You have to set up multiple servers, though.
<dgroos> alkisg: wow!  This is great.  It talks about firefox 2.x--do you think it might work with firefox 3.5?
<wima> yes
<wima> but i see now that the client cannot resolve the hostname
<alkisg> dgroos: in jaunty (firefox 3.0) it's really really easy, you just make a user.js file and put whatever lockpref()s you want there
<alkisg> I suppose it'll work with 3.5 as well.
<sbalneav> wima: If you want hostnames, probably best to put them in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/hosts, then rebuild the ltsp image
<alkisg> dgroos: try it: create a /etc/firefox-3.5/pref/user.js file, and put this in it: lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr");
<alkisg> If you get a locked down home page, then it works.
<alkisg> lockPref("network.proxy.type", 5); ==> makes firefox always use the gnome proxy settings.
<wima> ok
<wima> strange...
<wima> when i do cat /etc/resolv.conf
<wima> i get an input/output error
<dgroos> alkisg: Thanks--I'll try this.  Not at my server right now but will be in about 2 hours--can't wait to try this!  I'll let you know :)
<alkisg> k
<wima> ON THE CLIENT THQT IS
<wima> sorry for the caps
<wima> strange keyboard :)
<wima> sbalneav: is /etc/hosts not overwritten by something?
<wima> if i check on the client, 'server' and the client are in there, but not the servers i defined
<alkisg> wima: /etc/hosts getrewritten on each boot
<alkisg> *gets
<wima> right. i just saw it. it says so in the top of the file :)
<wima> any ideas how i can make the client resolve the servernames then?
<alkisg> wima: you can put entries in /etc/hosts.ltsp
<alkisg> This gets automatically included while the new etc/hosts is being created
<sbalneav> When did we start overwriting /etc/hosts?
 * sbalneav shakes head
<sbalneav> We didn't used to.
<alkisg> sbalneav: don't know, but it's in initscripts/ltsp-setup
<sbalneav> We used to append to it, not overwrite it.
 * sbalneav shrugs
<wima> should the client not use the dns server?
<alkisg> wima: it doesn't, by default. Use the lts.conf variable named DNS_SERVER, along with SEARCH_DOMAIN (both needed)
<ogra> sbalneav, you need to recreate it
<wima> ah. thanks
 * alkisg thinks that the dns server that comes from dhcp should be respected...
<ogra> you could hae a one liner in it but its moot
<ogra> *have
<sbalneav> alkisg: file a bug.  Probably should as default value
<ogra> yes, resolv.conf could be handled nicer
<alkisg> now with the udhcp script it's ok
<ogra> not really
<alkisg> Why not?
<ogra> since the ltsp-setup script still forcefully overwrites it
<ogra> the code could surely be more elegant than te sledgehammer it is now :)
<alkisg> Yeah udhcp sets DNS_SERVER is if itsn't already set, so it takes effect after ltsp-setup
<alkisg> It "fakes" it so it's considered to be an lts.conf variable
<alkisg> (if DNS_SERVER isn't already set, that is...)
<wima> the hostnames resolv now (i added them to hosts.ltsp) but still no way to select the host :(
<sbalneav> !bug 416998
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 416998 in sabayon "sabayon-admin should be a system user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416998
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://www.mind360.com/games/internal/face_it
<dgroos> Earlier alkisg said: "create a /etc/firefox-3.5/pref/user.js file, and put this in it: lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr") and this can lock down users start pages, for example.  Did anyone try this and get it to work?  I don't seem to get it to work.
#edubuntu 2009-08-22
<dgroos> I can't add computers in iTALC on my thin client network.
<dgroos> nor are there any computers in the auto-detect group though 2 users are logged into thin clients.
<dgroos> I've used this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc to no effect though it's for Hardy, I know.
<dgroos> This page seems to provide even older info: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment
<dgroos> I've spent many hours on this to no avail--any help I'd greatly appreciate.
<LaserJock> hola Edubunteros
<LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage: around?
<davidgroos> Good morning/afternoon alkisg: would you expound further on your lockdown method for firefox?
<alkisg> davidgroos: hi, did you try it and got stuck somewhere? Or should I start from the beginning?
<davidgroos> well... :)
<alkisg> OK. You're using jaunty, right?
<LaserJock> hi guys
<davidgroos> I tried it, didn't work, did a good bit of googling, now my google search doesn't work on the firefox running as a localapp :)
<davidgroos> Yes Jaunty
<davidgroos> good morn LaserJock
<alkisg> Hi LaserJock! Could you please answer a quick question? I'd like to make a cd similar to the edubuntu add-on CD and put some proprietary greek edu apps in it. I already have them in an apt repository, but I can't find any tools that would help me create a cd from the repo...
<alkisg> E.g. there's an "appinstall" folder there for gnome-app-install, but I can't find *any* docs for it
<LaserJock> alkisg: hmm, the easiest way might be to use AptOnCD
<LaserJock> oh, you're wanting to do the same installer thing?
<alkisg> Yup
<alkisg> I'd like it to be as easy for the end user as possible. So I wouldn't want them to install aptoncd to access the contents...
<LaserJock> hmm, there's a certain flag that gets passed to gnome-app-install
<LaserJock> but I don't really know how that's detected in our CD
<alkisg> By trial and error I've seen that if I have an "ubuntu" soft link in the cd, then gnome-app-install is launched
<LaserJock> the best person to ask is mvo in #ubuntu-devel, he's the guy that wrote gnome-app-install and the one that added that feature
<alkisg> But official docs? None whatsoever :(
<LaserJock> no, no docs
<LaserJock> code == docs in this case
<alkisg> Thanks! That's what I was looking for :)
<alkisg> Thanks man
<LaserJock> gnome-app-install is supposed to get replaced at some point in the future
<LaserJock> but I hope it's replacement would have a similar feature
<alkisg> davidgroos: I don't know about localapps, the locking method works fine for standalone PCs though. It also works in LTSP without localapps.
<davidgroos> in the chroot (/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/firefox-3.5) there is nothing in the firefox pref file.  In the regular root the pref has a few things--
<alkisg> So I can help you do it outside the chroot, and then you could try to do it inside the chroot yourself.
<davidgroos> OK can you help with stand alone and I can probably get it from there...
<alkisg> OK.
<davidgroos> 'great minds...' ;)
<alkisg> 1) echo 'lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr");' | sudo tee /etc/firefox-3.0/pref/user.js
<davidgroos> I made a user.js file
<alkisg> 2) That's it.
<alkisg> :D
<alkisg> Your start page should be locked after that. Restart firefox to check it out.
<davidgroos> and used same permissions 644 as the firefox.js file...
<davidgroos> now, I cleared out what I had put in there yesterday...
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock
<davidgroos> so will re-type what you put above...
<alkisg> Copy/paste it
<LaserJock> highvoltage: hey!
<davidgroos> YES!
<alkisg> Heh :) The home page setting should even by grayed out, completely disabled in the preferences dialog..
<alkisg> davidgroos: I have a template user.js with all the firefox settings, but with greek comments. If you want I can updload it to pastebin and you can get it through google translate for the comments to be translated in english.
<davidgroos> Awesome! Thanks! :)
<alkisg> davidgroos: http://pastebin.ubuntu-gr.org/m318e29f6
<alkisg> They're all commented out initially, so you just uncomment/edit the ones you want.
<davidgroos> Cool, I'm signing out of this irc client and will re-enter as ... dgroos (so I can copy-paste!)
<alkisg> ok
<dgroos1> hmmm... it copied all of the line numbers--will those get in the way?
<alkisg> Yes. Better click here to download it as plain text: http://pastebin.ubuntu-gr.org/pastebin.php?dl=m318e29f6
<dgroos1> hmmm... seems to be empty?
<alkisg> It shouldn't be, it's ok for me. Anyway, just copy it from the previous url, but not with the line numbers. Use the box at the end of the page, this doesn't have line numbers.
<dgroos1> cool
<dgroos1> ok, copied it into the user.js file, noticed that you had uncommented the one line: lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr"); and I opened firefox-should I have logged out/in?
<alkisg> No, but I think you have to close firefox for the changes to take effect.
<dgroos1>  I'll try again!
<dgroos1> hmmm... I'll delete the user.js file, would you type in that command you gave at first to create the file?  I closed the irc client that had it.
<alkisg> (04:56:40 Î¼Î¼) alkisg: 1) echo 'lockPref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr");' | sudo tee /etc/firefox-3.0/pref/user.js
<dgroos1> thanks--first, why is there now a user.js and user.js~ file?
<alkisg> gedit made a backup when you saved it
<dgroos1> user.js~ is the backup?
<alkisg> yes
<dgroos1> OK--works like in a charm in 3.0 however it doesn't work in 3.5.
<alkisg> You have 3.5 in jaunty?
<dgroos1> yes, I figured I go with the newer firefox
<alkisg> OK but you should put user.js in /etc/firefox.3.5 then
 * alkisg wonders how dgroos1 installed firefox 3.5...
<dgroos1> I put it both in firefox-3.0 (as per your command) and in firefox-3.5 (by altering your script)
<dgroos1> oh you-know, I waved my hand over the computer and it installed itself ;)
<dgroos1> actually, there are blogs on the internet on how to do it and I did it but in the process of making it work as a localapp the guy whose helping install the server jimrockford, uninstalled and reinstalled it a few times to make it work.
<dgroos1> and in the meantime I've forgotten--too much water over the dam...
<alkisg> Yes I asked because there are lots of blogs out there that advice people to add the mozilla daily ppa to their sources. That's a really bad way to install firefox. Anyway.
<dgroos1> ... or terminal commands passing through my brain :)
<dgroos1> Yes, did the daily thing and it was problematic.  since then it is in jaunty restricted, I believe.
<dgroos1> as of 1 week ago, I believe.
<dgroos1> Is there a problem with that?
<alkisg> I don't know.
<alkisg> I tried with karmic 3.5, and it worked by putting user.js in /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.2/defaults/preferences/
<alkisg> *I mean firefox 3.5 in Karmic
<dgroos1> I'll try to put it there!  so I just alter the command to make user.js install there?
<alkisg> Yes
<dgroos1> strange!  I've only got /usr/lib/firefox-3.0.13/ and /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.3pre/
<alkisg> OK, put it in 3.5.3pre
<dgroos1> this is strange because I'm running 3.5.1 on the server, and 3.5.2 on the localapp
<alkisg> dpkg -l 'firefox*' tells you the version you're running
<dgroos1> seems like it is left over from installing from the ppa.  Can I delete it and it will re-create the proper one?
<alkisg> I don't know.
<dgroos1> ok i'll try
<dgroos1> I meant, I'll try the dpkg -l 'firefox*'
<dgroos1> so I did and got this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/257567/  seems like a bunch of stuff
<alkisg> So you have firefox 3.0.13 and firefox 3.5.3.
<dgroos1> Yes and 3.5.2 running as a local app (according to the 'about mozilla firefox in the help menu--though it calls it Shiretoko)
<alkisg> ...because you said "(05:53:36 Î¼Î¼) dgroos1: strange!  I've only got /usr/lib/firefox-3.0.13/ and /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.3pre/"
<alkisg> You have these folders because that's the firefox version you have.
<dgroos1> Shiretoko is the one that is in restricted, I believe.
<dgroos1> they call it Shiretoko because they have firefox 3.0 as the official jaunty firefox and don't want to confuse brands...
<dgroos1> but, I'm confused.
<dgroos1> is there a pastebin for images?
<alkisg> imageshack?
<dgroos1> arg... can't...upload...screenshot...anywhere
<dgroos1> I'm rebooting client, I'll be back
<dgroos> alkisg: nothing like a good reboot.  Here are links showing the 'about' screens, do they not give accurate info?: http://yfrog.com/0kscreenshotaboutshiretokp and http://yfrog.com/2iscreenshotaboutmozillafp
<alkisg> dgroos: that's the local app firefox. dpkg -l 'firefox*' showed you the server firefox.
<alkisg> The second screenshot though says 3.5.1, and you don't have 3.5.1 (according to dpkg -l).
<alkisg> dgroos: did you try to put it in /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.3pre ?
<dgroos> no--got sidetracked, will do now.
<dgroos> Works! :)
<dgroos> Thanks.
<dgroos> I'm going to install it in the chroot and rebuild it so available to the localapp.  I'm pretty sure it will work.
<dgroos> and to deal with can-o-worms...
<dgroos> I'm going to purge 3.5 from regular root and just install shiretoko from restricted.  Sound reasonable?
<dgroos> be back
<dgroos> alkisg: works as localapp on thin client :)  Thanks for generously sharing your user.js file as well.  I'll now try to customize it in english.
<Meiki> Hi - could someone help me with an IP address issue that I'm having. Please look at http://pastebin.com/m575e62fd, I can bind public services to the first IP, but not to the others (*.87- onwards).
<alkisg1> dgroos: you're welcome
<dgroos> alkisg1: babelfish is quite a polyglot, check this out: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpastebin.ubuntu-gr.org%2Fm318e29f6&lp=el_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
<dgroos> alkisg: I'm fixing the translation as I customize it (with logic not knowledge of Greek, unfortunately) and have 2 questions:
<dgroos> 1.  Will the directory /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.2/defaults/preferences/ get overwritten when a new version number of firefox updates?
<dgroos> 2. It would be fantastic if I could assign a certain user.js config file with a different group.  So, all students in, 'level1' would use the most restrictive user.js, students in 'level3' would use the least restrictive user.js file.  Is this possible?
<mhall119> dgroos: maybe with symlinks?
<mhall119> I assume they have separate profiles, right?
<dgroos> mhall119: you mean the groups?
<mhall119> however edubuntu sets them up
<dgroos> As far as I understand, the user.js file is not in a location that is specific to a user or a group, but I think you are
<dgroos> saying that I could sym-link this file into an appropriate directory that would/could exist in a group's folder?
<dgroos> up till now I didn't know that a group had it's own folder :)
<dgroos> I'm looking for it now...
<dgroos> not finding a folder for groups--not sure I get your idea.
<mhall119> I may be misunderstanding
<dgroos> mhall119: thanks for trying.  alkisg showed me a way to lockdown preferences for users.  I create a file called, 'user.js' with all of the lockdown settings.
<dgroos> and I put that in a particular location and
<dgroos> it becomes the required settings for firefox.
<dgroos> I would like to be able to increase the computer rights of a student as they demonstrate sufficient responsibility with computers.
<dgroos> So, I'd like to have 3 versions of limits on the computer:
<dgroos> level1, level2, level3.  I'm doing this with sabayon.
<dgroos> Sabayon doesn't do firefox prefs, however, so this is an additional layer.
<dgroos> more sense?
<alkisg> dgroos: what kind of firefox settings do you want to set per group?
<dgroos> alkisg: Good question. Upon closer examination there aren't any of the permissions in the preference pane that need to be specific to different responsibility-level groups.  I guess I'm thinking more about whitelists and blacklists.
<alkisg> Better do that with squid, not firefox.
<dgroos> I'm hoping to get help w/district person on squid guard with that.
<dgroos> Yes :)
<alkisg> It's easy for a user to run his own version of firefox or other browser and override any settings you impose to him
<alkisg> But he can't overcome a transparent proxy.
<dgroos> Is there any way besides using another version of firefox from a flash drive that they could overcome the prefs I'm setting?
<alkisg> They could run e.g. google chrome locally
<alkisg> But other than running another browser, I don't think a non-admin can overcome the lockPrefs
<dgroos> where does that program come from?  can I just delete it from the server?
<alkisg> What program? The other browser? They can e.g. download it from the internet
<alkisg> Student: (1) runs locked down firefox, (2) goes to mozilla.com, (3) downloads firefox, (4) runs firefox locally with his own permissions
<alkisg> You can't really lock that scenario.
<alkisg> Unless you prohibit them from running programs, which is far fetched
<dgroos> got it.  Thanks for letting me know.
<dgroos> The main thing really is making it non-trivial to break the rules, not impossible or even improbable.
<joshiggins_> Anyone home?
<dgroos> Afternoon Josh, or that would be, Evening for you :)
<joshiggins_> Evening for me
<blkdg> hi, is anyone here using edubuntu on powerpc ?
<blkdg> thanks anyhow
#edubuntu 2009-08-23
<Ahmuck-Sr> boot from a usb drive
<Ahmuck-Sr> bypass a transparent proxy via tunneling
<Ahmuck-Sr> boot from a usb drive to bypass firefox and os altogather
<Ahmuck-Sr> dgroos:
<dgroos> howdy Ahmuck-Sr!
<dgroos> Ahmuck-Sr: if some pseudo-named person comes to this irc, asking how to bypass firefox prefs, don't tell, ay? ;)
<Ahmuck-Sr> dgroos: sure thing
<ulead> im barry kauler
<dgroos> Any idea what the lockPref command is for locking down the firefox prefs that control private browsing and deleting history?
<mhall119> does anyone know of any easy to to disable all internet access for a given user account?
<alkisg> mhall119: some person in #ltsp once proposed iptables for this: iptables -m owner -A OUTPUT -j DROP
<mhall119> yeah, I'm looking into iptables now
<mhall119> thanks
<alkisg> ...and another variant he proposed: iptables -m owner -A OUTPUT -j DROP --gid-owner STUDENT_GID
<alkisg> dgroos: to find the lockpref commands, (1) you reset all firefox preferences (2) you change the preference you care about (3) you go to about:config and sort the changed settings first.
<dgroos> alkisg: Cool. how do you sort the entries in about:config by most recently changed?  I don't see it.
<dgroos> I've tried unsuccessfully over the last couple of weeks to get iTALC to see the clients, trying all permutations that come to me.  Please someone direct me to an up to date install instructions for Jaunty/LTSP.
#edubuntu 2010-08-23
<alkisg> Good morning
<janimo> Hi, I have a few minutes ago mistakenly copied some packages (shotwel) to edubuntu PPA, is there an easy way to undo that?
<janimo> shotwell loibraw and gexiv more specifically
<alkisg> Delete them?
<alkisg> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/edubuntu-updates/+packages
<alkisg> janimo: I think if you're to delete them, better sooner than later, before people update their PCs... :) stgraber, highvoltage what do you think? ^^^
<janimo> shotwell luyckily is not in the default install, but indeed I'll go delete them
<janimo> alkisg: thanks, I did a request for deletion
<janimo> apparently these were the only two packages in the edubuntu stable updates ppa??
<alkisg> janimo: "request for deletion"? if you don't have the rights to delete them, I believe I can do it for you...
<alkisg> I think those are the only packages there, yes
<janimo> Launcpad PPA deletions all llook like a 'request for deletion'
<janimo> not sure if theypass throgh a human
<janimo> but that is the text
<janimo> at least to me all deletions look like that (with the need to supply a reason)
<alkisg> No, it just takes some time to be removed
<janimo> ok then
<alkisg> Because someone may be downloading them at that time, and deleting them immediately would break his system (apt-get command etc)
<janimo> yes
<janimo> although if it is a busy PPA and it indeed check for such things, then it may be stuck ther eindefinitely
<alkisg> I don't think so, I think it will refuse new downloads...
<iRy> ne help to install Qualcomm Gobi firmware on lucid?!
<alkisg> For generic ubuntu questions, try #ubuntu, you'll get more answers there.
<iRy> thx
#edubuntu 2010-08-24
<daafies> hi all, would the latest edubuntu run ok on a celeron m1.2 ghz with 1G mem?
<daafies> or is installing xubuntu  and ubuntu-edu-blah a better option?
<daafies> awesome
#edubuntu 2010-08-25
<wolfraven> Hello Room!  Can anyone help me with edubuntu resources.  I need good resources for developing a presentation to our Schools board of directors on why we should expose our students to edubuntu....
<wolfraven> I am sure this wheel has already been invented several times and I really don't feel like spending too much effort reinventing it if someone can show me where the wheel yard is :)
<wolfraven> We are about to receive a large donation of computers and we are in the early stages of discussing our computer resource implementation plan and I feel we should utilize edubuntu for many reasons, just wonder if anyone knows links to presentations that will highlight those reasons.
<chris143> having problems with client audio on ubuntu 10.04 ltsp-standalone-server.. SOUND=True, but no sound... verified the client audio capabilities already using 8.04 ltsp server that works with audio.. fresh install of 10.04 not an upgrade.. any ideas?????
<chris143> installed 10.04 alternate CD but did not choose LTSP at install.. later I installed ltsp-standalone-server... all other client features work (localdev, video etc.) but no sound.. where should I look?
<chris143> having problems with client audio on ubuntu 10.04 ltsp-standalone-server.. SOUND=True, but no sound... verified the client audio capabilities already using 8.04 ltsp server that works with audio.. fresh install of 10.04 not an upgrade.. any ideas?????
<Bokica> hi
<Bokica> i need a little help
<Bokica> can somebody tell me from where i can download edubuntu 7.1
<Bokica> because all links that i found was death
<Bokica> ??
<highvoltage> Bokica: Hi
<highvoltage> Why Edubuntu 7.10? It's ancient :)
<Bokica> yeah i know
<Bokica> but i really need that version
<highvoltage> Bokica: http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/7.10/
<Bokica> how i cant found this :(
<highvoltage> Bokica: note the big warning in red text and also keep in mind that it's unsupported and probably insecure in a bunch of other ways
<Bokica> thanks a lot
<highvoltage> Bokica: I wondered that too, since it was the first result when I Google searched it ;)
<Bokica> :D
<Bokica> i cant opened that page before
<Bokica> i dont know why
<Bokica> thanks a lot againg
<Bokica> again*
<highvoltage> you're welcome
<highvoltage> ooh, Edubuntu meeting time!
<alkisg> oops
<Ahmuck-Jr> hi. an alternative to using edubuntu in the classroom besides ltsp would be a private cloud?
<Ahmuck-Jr> hi HedgeMage
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbleavene around anymore?
<dgroos1> Hi Ahmuck-Jr
<alkisg> He hasn't shown up for a long time
<alkisg> Too much work, I guess...
<dgroos1> Yeah, I was wondering about Scott as well.
<dgroos1> Did he say adios or...?
<Ahmuck-Jr> did he leave after me?
<Ahmuck-Jr> hi dgroos long time no chat
<Ahmuck-Jr> sorta :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> has the edubuntu team looked at anything besides ltsp?
<dgroos1> sometimes these things can be a bit too asynchronous...
<Ahmuck-Jr> such as ldap/nfs, etc. combo or cloud ?
<alkisg> To satisfy what needs?
<Ahmuck-Jr> well, ltsp simply didn't work for us
<alkisg> ldap and nfs can be installed on edubuntu, sure... there are how-tos for that
<alkisg> Why not? I mean, what are your specific requirements?
<Ahmuck-Jr> in edubutu, does it cover multiple stable setups?
<Ahmuck-Jr> alkisg: something that works :)
<alkisg> ltsp works for thousand of people
<alkisg> Maybe your needs are different, but you need to state them if you want us to propose something to you
<dgroos1> Ahmuck-Jr.  may I guess that it is the challenges of using LTSP on top of all the other challenges of using open source software in general or might I say technology in general?
<dgroos1> ...the problem solving never seems to end...
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, i went through about 5 different machine configurations, and something didn't work quite correctly on each platform.  the next step was buy new machines, and that wasn't in the budget
<dgroos1> on that note :) ... alkisg:  I've just got my computers set up and am testing sch-scripts...
<Ahmuck-Jr> sound, SDL, video, firefox/flash, something
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: well, if it's a hardware problem with linux (no drivers for specific hardware), then you'd need different hardware or OS, edubuntu doesn't have any drivers that linux doesn't already have
<dgroos1> I can relate--wondering how to make sound work properly right now, but it isn't the challenge in front of me at this second...
<alkisg> So, if one standalone edubuntu installation doesn't work for you, there's no point in looking at nfs, ldap etc
<alkisg> That comes *after* the hardware is working
<Ahmuck-Jr_> standalone worked great
<Ahmuck-Jr_> it was through ltsp that it failed
<alkisg> Then try fat clients, it's like standalone installations
<Ahmuck-Jr_> sorry, i timed out
<alkisg> With central authentication + nfs
<Ahmuck-Jr_> alkisg: like i said, another set of machines, not in the budget
<Ahmuck-Jr_> but i have wondered about private clouds
<Ahmuck-Jr_> and if anybody tried them
<dgroos1> alkisg: can you help with this sch-script question?  I'm running sch-script on a client right now and tried to share a screen and got this...
<dgroos1> sch-scripts error: XAUTHORITY is not defined
<dgroos1> /usr/share/sch-scripts/scripts/server/runas-sudo-user: 1: cannot create /var/log/sch-scripts.log: Permission denied
<Ahmuck-Jr_> seriously, i'm not here to bug about ltsp, but rather to find out if anybody has tried other "classroom" confiuraitons
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr_: I've tried fat clients, they work great for me. Boot in 13 seconds instead of 50 locally, and have nfs + cental authentication out of the box.
<alkisg> (with ltsp)
<alkisg> dgroos1: where are you seeing those messages?
<Ahmuck-Jr_> thanks
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr_: and, google earth, firefox, flash etc everything works fine, they're exactly like standalone installations
<dgroos1> Ahmuck-Jr_ would it be helpful if there were an image of a server, basically all set up with just a few things to customize that already all the programs, NAT forwarding (pretty much) plugins installed, etc?
<Ahmuck-Jr> alkisg: i know it works for you.  didn't for me
<alkisg> You tried fat clients? That's lucid-only...
<Ahmuck-Jr> never bothered with lucid.  closed the ltsp lab by that point
<alkisg> Right, that's what I'm saying, it's something new
<dgroos1> That is what I would like, a huge disk image that I could use Clonezilla and blast it onto my server...
<Ahmuck-Jr> lucid is pre-setup?
<alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
<alkisg> Fat client support in ltsp was implemented in lucid, not before
<alkisg> It's an alternative to thin clients, a completely different model
<dgroos1> alkisg: I see them on the terminal.  To start sch-scripts I typed in a client's terminal: sudo sch-scripts
<Ahmuck-Jr> so anybody hear from Scott?
<alkisg> dgroos1: so, you're using a thin client setup (with localapps), you have sch-scripts installed on the server and sch-client on the chroot, and run sch-scripts from a client, and get a xauthority error?
<dgroos1> and when I do commands on the gui, there is output on the terminal.
<dgroos1> hmmm... not sure if I installed sch-client...
<alkisg> Are the clients autodetected?
<dgroos1> YES!
<alkisg> ***before logging in to ldm***?
<dgroos1> yes
<alkisg> OK, then you have sch-client installed
<alkisg> Does lock screen etc work?
<dgroos1> lock screen did, control did not.  Also, couldn't get the full name option to work.
<alkisg> OK, let's take this one by one
<alkisg> (you're not using our setup instructions, as they're specific to our setups, so you might be missing something)
<dgroos1> sure
<alkisg> Do you have x11vnc installed on the chroot?
<Ahmuck-Jr> alkisg: i hear your going for your masters?
<alkisg> (it's installed automatically for us, it's on the sch-client "Recommends:" list)
<dgroos1> not sure I'll check
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: no, I got that already, I'm doing my phd currently (taken a leave of absense from teaching)
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah
<Ahmuck-Jr> btw, noticed greece was in trouble financially, how did that affect you?
<alkisg> They cut off about 200â¬ from our salaries... but after the EU ...loan (I don't know the word) it looks like it's going to stabilize now
<dgroos1> I went to synaptic, typed in x11vnc and it says that it's installed...
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: so, if standalone edubuntu installations are working for you, what more are you looking for? Ease of installation? Shared /home?
<alkisg> dgroos1: no, not on the server
<alkisg> Hmmm wait
<alkisg> Thin clients, so yeah, on the server
<alkisg> So you're seeing the clients with thumbnails, and when you double click on them, you get that xauthority message?
<dgroos1> Yes, also then.
<alkisg> OK. Does teacher "broadcasting" works?
<alkisg> (showing the teacher screen)
<dgroos1> I think I translated that as, 'share teacher screen' and it also doesn't work, giving the identical xauthority error
<dgroos1> One thing is, I think that it things the teacher screen is the server and not the thin client I'm logged into.  Is that possible?
<alkisg> It may be, in our case the teacher is always sitting at the server. But I'm interested on fixing that, if that's a bug...
<alkisg> (btw we just implemented a "create a bunch of users" feature, it'll be out in september)
<dgroos1> cool :)
<alkisg> dgroos1: if you run echo $XAUTHORITY, you do get something, right?
<alkisg> (on the thin client, logged on as the "teacher")
<dgroos1> In a new terminal I typed that in and a blank line was returned.
<alkisg> Then there's something very wrong with your setup... hmm...
<alkisg> Let me boot a thin client and compare..
<dgroos1> You know, I'm also accessing the server via NX and tried to type in echo $XAUTHORITY and there too a blank line was returned...
<dgroos1> And, I logged into the server via ssh as another user and got the same blank line returned...
<alkisg> dgroos1: can you try closing sch-scripts, and running this?
<dgroos1> ready... :)
<alkisg> sudo XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority sch-scripts
<dgroos1> it opens sch-scripts.  When I try to share-screen it give 4 lines of this: cat: /proc/2424/environ: Permission denied
<dgroos1> then produces multitudes of lines of this: ** (vinagre:6541): WARNING **: Resolving failed: Timeout reached
<dgroos1> forgot to mention, it opens a Remote Desktop Viewer window.
<alkisg> OK, let me try running sch-scripts locally from a thin client (as opposed from the server), and I'll tell you in a while how that goes for me.
<dgroos1> 'k
<Ahmuck-Jr> l8r
<dgroos1> alkisg: I just went to the server (I've had the door unlocked) and tried sch-scripts on that and it didn't work like it had before.  I wonder if NX interferes with it?
<alkisg> dgroos1: if problems happen, the sch-scripts sometimes needs restarting to get right again.
<alkisg> Now problems happened because you run sch-scripts on a thin client, and the code wasn't ready for that
<dgroos1> So... in other words, something has happened to my install as it used to work on the server, at least.  should I reboot the server?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> sudo restart sch-scripts
<alkisg> But you'd have to reboot the clients though
<alkisg> I saw the problem, trying to get sch-scripts to run from a thin client...
<alkisg> (it's not only xauthority, it's dbus too)
#edubuntu 2010-08-26
<alkisg> dgroos1: can you test 2 things?
<alkisg> 1) sudo gedit /usr/share/sch-scripts/scripts/server/runas-sudo-user
<alkisg> exec "$@"
<alkisg> # Now, check some necessary environment variables
<alkisg> (i.e. put the exec line right above that comment)
<alkisg> 2) double click on a client. vinagre will open, but not show anything. Go to the menu and enable reverse connections. It should then work fine.
<alkisg> (i'll fix both of them properly of course, but in the mean time that should get you going...)
<dgroos1> alkisg: I tested with some restarting clients and sch-scripts and things work great again at the server.
<alkisg> OK, try those above, they should allow it to work on thin clients too. ^^^
<dgroos1> I've really got to run (actually bike :)) home as I'm way late for dinner! but I'm going to copy these fixes and get back to it tomorrow morning when I get back to school.  Thanks so much!
<alkisg> OK, bye bye!
 * alkisg is a biker too :)
<dgroos1> what's the motor, you or mechanical?
<alkisg> Me
<alkisg> Sold the mechanical one :)
<dgroos1> as well, for me, though I've still got the mechanical one hanging around under a tarp :)
<alkisg> dgroos1: OK, I properly fixed it, here's the correct "runas-sudo-user" script: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/annotate/head%3A/sch-scripts/scripts/server/runas-sudo-user
<Ahmuck> dgroos1: looking over your video tutorial
<Ahmuck> dgroos1: i'm not a programmer, but i'd be willing to work with you when i have time to assist you.
<coz_> hey guys... I have noticed this occurring with edubuntu but lucid in general.... there are times...frequent times...that when opening synaptic the system freezes
<coz_> I have to  go into text console   as root   killall synaptic   log in... open  software sources first then open synaptic for it to work
<coz_> any suggestions?
<dgroos1> Good morning all
<coz_> dgroos1,  good morning
<dgroos1> coz_: I've not had that issue with Synaptic, yet, though not used it much, usually I do the sudo apt-get install thing.
<coz_> dgroos1,  same here but at times...when doing support I need to opne synaptic  and this seems to be a consistent issue
<dgroos1> I wish I had some good advice but the level of specificity would be something like "try googling" :)  sorry I can't help.
<dgroos1> alkisg: (8:08 + 8 = 16:08) and good afternoon.
<dgroos1> alkisg: looking at the logs, it looks like you came up with a more permanent solution.  Will I need to re-do the translations after I add said file to it's location on the server?  Do I just restart sch-scripts afterwards?
<coz_> dgroos1,  no problem I found one report on it with no solutions however
<dgroos1> Ahumck: Saw your comment from last night.  I think that would be cool.
<dgroos1> I must say that that video is lns, not mine.
<dgroos1> Seems like one of the first things we need to do is to create a wiki page linking to help videos that we feel are good.
<dgroos1> Maybe with comments about what version they apply to, what they are good at explaining, how to improve, etc.
<dgroos1> That way we don't have to reinvent the wheel and it respects the work people have done.
<alkisg> dgroos1: no, just copy that one file over the existing one. A problem still remains though, that if the teacher starts sch-scripts from a thin client, they'll be able to "see themselves"
<alkisg> So maybe "lock screen" could even lock their screens, not sure. I'll have to look into that too.
<dgroos1> alkisg: I was kinda embarresed about this last night so I didn't mention it but when I was experimenting with the 'lock screen' function the first one I locked was my own :)
<alkisg> Heh
<alkisg> Temporarily, select the other users beside the one operating sch-scripts. I"ll solve that too soon.
<dgroos1> And then I went to another computer, logged in as a different user, opened up sch-scripts and unlocked it from there--it worked!
<alkisg> (when we were programming this, we never thought the teacher wouldn't sit on the server :D)
<dgroos1> Can you remind me the name of the file that contains the translations?
<alkisg> sch-scripts.glade? you don't need to touch that at all
<dgroos1> right, that was it.  I need to back it up so that when I do the update and it overwrites that file, I'll simply copy/paste between my translations and the new glade file.
<alkisg> Right
<alkisg> But there's no automatic update yet, you need to copy a file manually
<dgroos1> btw -- how about a new name for sch-scripts, like, 'greek-goodness' or something catchy like that :D
<dgroos1> OK
<alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/annotate/head%3A/sch-scripts/scripts/server/runas-sudo-user
<alkisg> :P
<alkisg> It's probably a bad name, I got carried away because we use the *.sch.gr domain for schools here. Maybe something "classroom administration" related...
<alkisg> In 2 years, we'll rewrite it from scratch and properly add internationalization and everything. Plus a new name. :)
<dgroos1> Classroom Administration or CA for short.  People in California and Canada would like that!
<dgroos1> alkisg: Works!!!
<dgroos1> Couple of questions...
<alkisg> Shoot
<dgroos1> Is there a way to make it so that a users full name shows up under the thumb nail of their screen?
<alkisg> Not yet, but we thought of adding an option for that later on (like it's now for the "users" panel)
<alkisg> i.e. users > show full name, we'll add that to the terminals menu too
<dgroos1> That would be a useful feature.  Is there a way to know which screen corresponds to which computer besides keeping a list that corresponds ltsp# with computer location? (Also I know about show properties.)
<dgroos1> Arrg... just realized I've got a meeting that starts in a few minutes... be back in an hour or so...
<alkisg> Me too, in 2 hours, bye
<dgroos1> alkisg: My other question is maybe more important...
<dgroos1> A different question: our set up is different than yours. We've got 2 classrooms running on the same server.  Is there a way to use groups such that you make all users of 1 teacher in one group...
<dgroos1> and all users of the other teacher in another group...
<dgroos1> and then by selecting a group on the left, only the computers used by the users in that group show up.
<dgroos1> Otherwise, there might be 20 computers in my class and 20 in the other class, making 40 thumbnails that would need to be managed, though half wouldn't be of interest to me...
<Ahmuck> grouping by mac address
<Ahmuck> with different tabs for different groups
<dgroos1> Ahmuck: that would be a great solution--not sure if it works on sch-scripts is the thing.
<dgroos1> Have you seen sch-scripts?  It's the Greek answer to iTALC in a sense, customized for their setting.  I've installed it and after translating the interface it is great, much more stable/quick than iTALC.
<Ahmuck> i've seen a screenshot
<Ahmuck> anybody know why sbeanlves dropped out?
<dgroos1> alkisg: my other question starts here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/08/26/%23edubuntu.html#t16:51 (didn't realize you were out of the room).
<alkisg> Hmm....
<alkisg> dgroos1: No, currently there's no such possibility. For us, when we have multiple classrooms, we also have multiple servers (2 low-end servers are cheaper than 1 high-end server for us)
<alkisg> We could add such a grouping option, but I don't think anyone will do it now. So that too would have to wait 2 years :)
<dgroos1> Makes sense.
<alkisg> (a lot of ui changes would be needed, to add/remove classrooms, which gets unecessarily complicated for our needs)
<alkisg> We could make a "group" option in the background though, if it suits you
<dgroos1> Right.
<alkisg> E.g. if the teacher is in group "classA1", we can arrange that he only sees students that belong to the same group, "classA1"
<dgroos1> I do appreciate you working with me on this...
<alkisg> So, not really classroom related, but group related
<dgroos1> That, actually, is what I was imagining when I saw the 'group' function on the left side.
<alkisg> The group management there is to better organize the students, their files etc, but not for PC management
<dgroos1> Do you mean that only the clients which were logged-in by students in group x would show up when clicking on 'group x' in the group tab?
<alkisg> E.g. "add these users to classC1", and then "select classC1 and classC2 and delete all their files because they graduated", stuff like that
<alkisg> dgroos1: no, I mean a new option not currently shown in the iu
<alkisg> ui
<alkisg> "show only users that belong to group X"
<dgroos1> How possible would that be to make something like that?
<dgroos1> It would be perfect for our use.
<alkisg> There's a problem with the computers though, before the users log in
<alkisg> Computers don't belong to groups. So nah, groups are not a good idea, it would have to be mac-address or hostname based
<dgroos1> Right, because they would show always.  However, it would be a start because, at least I wouldn't see any screens of any student logged in unless they were in my class.  And if I could sort clients in the view window by logged in or not? then all unused clients would be at the bottom.
<alkisg> dgroos1: unfortunately I don't want to give much time on sch-scripts development right now, because of my phd. But, let me think about it for a while, I may come up with an easy to implement idea that would work for you.
<dgroos1> Thanks! :)
<alkisg> dgroos1: we could put a filter in a menu, either an ip filter or a hostname filter
<alkisg> E.g. "show only computers with hostname=classroom-a*"
<alkisg> You'd have to "connect" each hostname with each mac address to dhcpd.conf or lts.conf for this to work, but that would have to be done anyway to separate the classrooms
<alkisg> Unfortunately, currently sch-scripts doesn't store its settings "per teacher", so the teacher would need to do it every time it starts sch-scripts.
<alkisg> (we could add support for per-teacher settings too though in a few lines)
<dgroos1> alkisg:  just got back to computer... It sounds like you are saying that, I could make a list that would connect a hostname with MAC addresses and that one could filter based on hostname? but...
<alkisg> (yup, that's what I'm saying, and a new "filter box" would be added to the toolbar - better there than a menu)
<dgroos1> ... it would be lost upon restart or teacher logout/login BUT with a few lines of code, it could be saved?
<alkisg> The filter would be lost (currently) when starting sch-scripts, so the teacher would need to type "classa" to the filter each time it starts sch-scripts
<alkisg> Yes, with a few lines it could be saved
<dgroos1> Man that would be sweet...
<dgroos1> Would you do that?
<alkisg> Nope, but I'm trying to convince phantomas in #linux.sch.gr to do it
<dgroos1> :)
<alkisg> If you want come over to that room and tell him too :P
<dgroos1> ah... with my forceful text... ;)
<alkisg> (he's also with limited time for development for the next 2 years though :()
<Ricmat> I need some suggestions regarding how to implement Edubuntu over 20 computers that already have Ubuntu 10.04 installed....
<alkisg> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop?
<Ricmat> I'm trying to avoid downloading edubuntu 20 times on 20 different computers....
<alkisg> Check for apt-proxy, it uses caching so that you download updates/packages only once
<Ahmuck-Sr> clonezilla
<alkisg> Also, one handy way to execute commands to multiple computers is clusterssh
<Ahmuck-Sr> if the computers are all the same
<alkisg> I used to use that before switching to fat clients.
<Ahmuck-Sr> boot, and image the drive to multiple computers
<Ahmuck-Sr> drbl or clonezilla, this is the way we've done it b4
<alkisg> You install ssh, setup passwordless ssh, and then execute commands to all clients at once
<Ahmuck-Sr> install, configure one, and then clone many
<Ahmuck-Sr> or yes, use a proxy, mod the sources file and then always use the proxy for updates, etc.
<Ricmat> Let me go back a bit.  I'm a linux novice, but managed to get ubuntu 10.04 installed on 20 school computers.  The computers are all connected to the internet, but I've not yet figured out how to connect to each other.  They have CD drives, but not DVD drives.  If possible, I don't want to reinstall a total distribution over the top of my original installations which I've spent many weeks tweaking.  I'd just like to get *only
<Ricmat> * the stuff related to edubuntu, and install that on top of what I already have.  Sorry if this is a stupid question....
<alkisg> Ricmat: you can ping to any computer by appending a ".local" to its name
<alkisg> E.g. ping pc01.local
<alkisg> So they're already configured to talk to each other
<alkisg> You can select one of them to be a server, if you don't already have a server
<alkisg> Install apt-proxy there, and setup the others to use that server for downloading packags
<alkisg> packages
<Ricmat> Ah.
<alkisg> If you google for apt-proxy, you'll find a lot of how-tos
<alkisg> The "server" one should better have a static ip. Not necessary, but much easier this way.
<Ricmat> OK - so I install apt-proxy to e.g. computer number 1, then download the 2.3GB edubuntu distribution to the same machine.   Then I set up all computers to use that machine (with a static IP) to use that machine as the server.  And more info is available about apt-proxy?  Am I restating this properly?  BTW I can set up the "server" to have a static IP.
<alkisg> Ricmat: no
<alkisg> You install apt-proxy to computer 1, and then install edubuntu-desktop to all of them
<alkisg> That automatically takes care of downloading everything only once
<alkisg> So, you'll download much less than 1Gb
<alkisg> (not sure about the exact size of the dependecies of edubuntu-desktop)
<alkisg> But you dn't need the distribution if you already installed ubuntu
<alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptProxy
<alkisg> (edubuntu-desktop says it needs to download 350 MB on my ubuntu PC, so I guess you'll need about that)
<Ricmat> I'm not sure how to download only the edubuntu related additions to ubuntu.  At the edubuntu web site, the only options seem to be for the total 2.3GB distribution.
<alkisg> Ricmat: that's the only command you need, after configuring apt-proxy: sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<alkisg> Or, if you don't want to use a command, just install edubuntu-desktop from synaptic
<alkisg> That will get you a full edubuntu desktop
<Ricmat> OK - I'll give that a try.
<Ricmat> Thanks for your help.  This is the first time I've tried this forum (and even had to install Xchat just to do that!).
<alkisg> There's a web front end too
<alkisg> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=edubuntu
<alkisg> Also, the preinstalled empathy program has irc support
<alkisg> But xchat is also a good choice
<alkisg> highvoltage: maybe we could add a link to webchat.freenode to the edubuntu.org page?
<alkisg> ...many teachers don't know how to use irc...
<Ricmat> The edubuntu.org page is where I saw the IRC reference.  I'm actually at home on an XP computer, so I don't use empathy.  BTW - the networking aspects of ubuntu were way down on my to-do list, but now that the start of school is almost here, it got elevated suddenly.
<Ricmat> Bye for now.
<alkisg> Bye, good luck
<Akihiko> I have a problem.
<Akihiko> Whenever i try to install Ubuntu, it is stuck at the loading screen.
<alkisg> For general ubuntu questions, you can try in #ubuntu, you'll get more answers there
<Akihiko> They're assisting someone else
<alkisg> There are hundends of people there, I'm sure they can help more than one in parallel - that's how they usually do it
<alkisg> If you don't get an answer, try again after a while, or even try the mailing lists or the forums
<highvoltage> alkisg: good idea
<alkisg> Yeah embedding is a good option, we use that in http://www.ubuntu-gr.org/webchat
<highvoltage-edub> hmm, just need to adjust height...
<highvoltage> alkisg: it links from the community page now
<alkisg> Cool!
<alkisg-web> And the size is fine
<highvoltage> cool
#edubuntu 2010-08-27
<wolfravenous> I am a teacher trying to setup an edubuntu LTSP system, I have setup K12LTSP in the past, about 5 years ago, but wanted to try edubuntu for the new school I am at, but I am not having any luck can anyone help me?
<wolfravenous> I have setup and installed the software but my test thin client doesn't connect and I don't know how to check from the server to see if it is actually working as an LTSP server and broadcasting
<wolfravenous> downloaded a GUI tool from the software center, ltsp-manager, but when I launch it from a command line it pops up a window that says "select LTSP network" but the window is completely blank?
<wolfravenous> is there anyone in here or is all 23 idents just robots???
<HedgeMage> wolfravenous: Calm down...many of us idle here when we aren't at our computers.  The rest of us won't answer unless we know the answer, that's IRC manners.
<joe__> He all...
<HedgeMage> wolfravenous: I'm sure if you hang out a while, someone with LTSP experience will wake up.  It's not my area of expertise.
<HedgeMage> hi, joe__
<joe__> Funny :) I'm here for LTSP help :)
<HedgeMage> lol, then I'm afraid I won't be of much use to you.
<wolfravenous> Ok thanks, I was begining to worry the community page told me to setup IRC and come here for help
<wolfravenous> was afraid there was noone here
<joe__> I'll try anyway :)  I'm at the very begining... Ever get the LTSP to work on the live cd?
<joe__> I don't seem to get it to offer a DHCP response
<joe__> I'll try #LTSP... Thanks!
<HedgeMage> wolfravenous: np :)
<HedgeMage> wolfravenous: The manners on IRC can be a little odd to newbies :)
<wolfravenous> I probably made a major mistake, I have an old SCSI server, without DVD rom, so I put an IDE card in a PCI slot then cabled the IDE card over to the DVD rom in my tower and installed the software on the SCSI server that way.
<wolfravenous> I had two 10/100 NICs installed in the server when I setup the LTSP immediately after the Edubuntu install.
<wolfravenous> I setup the LTSP on Eth0, and tried to test LTSP with my tower, but the CD I burned from ROM-o-Matic wouldn't recognize the Onboard NIC in my tower, SO,
<wolfravenous> I went out an bought a Giga NIC to put in the server, and put the other 10/100 in my tower.
<wolfravenous> Now the ROM-o-matic CD recognizes my towers (thin client) NIC and tries to boot as a thin client but the server didn't seem to be broadcasting DHCP.
<wolfravenous> I went back into the servers network settings and it had named the new Giga NIC eth2
<wolfravenous> I changed the name to eth0 but it still doesn't seem to work.
<wolfravenous> I even tried downloading the LTSP-Live package from the software center and running that again to establish a "live" LTSP but still no dice!
<HedgeMage> :/
<wolfravenous> Problem is I am completely new to edubuntu so I don't even know where to start, in K12LTSP five years ago I might have had a clue but I haven't delt with this stuff in five years, heehe
<wolfravenous> HedgeMage: Wow, community has changed in 5 years, just went to LTSP channel and asked simple ? of how to check to see if Eth0 is broadcasting DHCP and noone replied out of over 60 idents.
<HedgeMage> wolfravenous: it's a Thursday night (at least here in the US) and it's conference season in the tech world (for example Drupalcon is going on right now, not sure what else)
<HedgeMage> edubuntu tends to be oddly active in the afternoons (US time) which is abnormal for open source channels in general
<wolfravenous> HedgeMage: then went to k12ltsp channel and I was alone in there?  What happened to the K12ltsp community or do you know???  I am in the US, GA to be exact.  Used to run K12 and evangalize Linux up in NC.
<HedgeMage> Ahh, I got married in Augusta, GA many moons ago :)
<HedgeMage> k12ltsp seems to have dried up a long time ago, though not as long ago as debian-edu
 * squidly waves
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> if any UK based folk want to express why IT teaching in school sucks please go here http://royalsociety.org/Education-Policy/Projects/ and tell the royal society, they are doing a call for evidence on the subject. It would be good to have a bunch of responses emphasising the importance of programming and Open Source software above teaching proprietary word processing applications as IT
<Ferdinand> Hi
<Ferdinand> any person here?
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Ferdinand> in the Edubuntu version 10.04 has been chosen, as a wallpaper, a picture of Mads Rosendahl. It is actually a modified image from one of my photographs. A I do not care to be used as wallpaper for Edubuntu, in fact I presented as background for Ubuntu. The problem is that I'd like authorship was recognized in Edubuntu documentation and the wiki.
<Ferdinand> my original photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferranreyes/3940702899
<alkisg> Thank you for the background Ferdinand. highvoltage ^^^ ?
<Ferdinand> what?
<alkisg> I'm just pinging a person that might know more about the wallpaper
<alkisg> Just stick around for a while until he sees your message, if you have time...
<Ferdinand> ah, thx :)
<Ferdinand> i'm spanish and my english is poor, sorry :$
<alkisg> No problem. If you're in a hurry, you can also leave an email, I'm sure he'll contact you later on.
<Ferdinand> In the past i try to contact with mail to canonical and edubuntu but i never had a response
<Ferdinand> i can expect
<Ferdinand> hi?
<Ferdinand> alksig new news?
<alkisg> Fedriandn: from me? No, I don't know anything about the wallpapers.
<alkisg> You can also leave an email for highvoltage to contact you
<Ferdinand> how can i leave an email for he?
<Ferdinand> alking you can give me his mail?
<alkisg> Ferdinand: you can send a mail to the edubuntu mailing list
<alkisg> It's on the ste
<Ferdinand> but for this i need subscribe me at the mailing list no?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> But your mail will be needing moderation
<alkisg> (i.e. it will stay for a few days if you are not subscribed)
<Ferdinand> ok, thx!
<Ferdinand> alkisg what's the best mailist? Edubuntu-users?
<alkisg> Either that, or edubuntu-devel
<Ferdinand> ok thx
<mhall119> highvoltage: can you tell me again where the edubuntu seed files are?
<highvoltage> mhall119: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.maverick
<mhall119> thanks
<priyanksingh_> how to wireless boot the clients through ltsp??
<dgroos> I'm confused.  I went to update my chroot and got a bucket of errors.  So I went to check the sources.lists that is in my chroot (/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt) and there were just 3 lines there!  I assumed that I had already populated that but I guess not...
<dgroos> So, how do I do that since my server is arch of 64 and my clients are 32?
<dgroos> Or am I totally off base!?
<alkisg> dgroos: what are those 3 lines? e.g. in "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid main restricted universe multiverse" ==> even multiverse is there
<dgroos> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid main restricted universe multiverse
<dgroos> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid-security main restricted universe multiverse
<dgroos> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid-updates main restricted universe multiverse
<dgroos> nothing more.
<alkisg> Yup, that's fine, are you looking for something more?
<dgroos> Don't I need stgraber's and your ppa's?
<dgroos> and besides, I get a boat load of errors of not finding repositories (Including the ones I just mentioned)
<alkisg> Is your resolv.conf correct?
<alkisg> (sorry, visitors, bb in a while...)
<dgroos> I just 'fixed' it... so not sure...  I'll un-fix and see what happens...
<dgroos> for sure.
<mhall119> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide
<mhall119> starting my UGJ early
<Ricmat> Hello again.....I got some good suggestions yesterday, but can't figure something out.  Once you have set up a computer with apt-proxy, how do you get the other computers on the subnet to go to that computer to download software from there - instead of going to the internet?
<Ricmat>  
<alkisg> dgroos: to add mine or stgrabers ppa, use add-apt-repository in the chroot
<mhall119> sorry Ricmat, I'm not familiar with that
<alkisg> (those go in /etc/apt/sources.list.d - you should already have mine if you have sch-client)
<Ricmat> In "Software Sources", "Other Software" , "Add", there's an option to enter the complete APT line of the new source repository.  My "server" has a fixed IP, but where is the Edubuntu stuff that I downloaded to the server machine.?  Or am I in the wrong area here totally?
<alkisg> Ricmat: is that on a client, trying to make it use apt-proxy on the server? (I didn't see what you said above...)
<Ricmat> Yes - I've installed apt-proxy on the server, and downloaded the edubuntu software to that server.  The server has a fixed IP.  I'm trying to set up clients to install from that server instead of going to the internet.
<alkisg> Did you follow the steps in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptProxy ?
<Ricmat> I haven't gone through the document although I do have it.  I was hoping (beyond hope?) that there would be some easy setup from e.g. "software sources" or something.  I'll try to go through the document on a client and see what happens.  When it says "deb" is that something to do with "Debian" or is it a command?
<alkisg> For apt-proxy, you need to go through that document
<alkisg> The server cache cannot be used without a program
<alkisg> You can *copy* the cache though, manually, if that seems easier to you (it isn't)
<alkisg> /var/cache/apt/archives/
<Ricmat> OK - wish me luck!
<alkisg> ==> that's where the .deb files are. If you manually copy all those files, then the clients won't download much data
<alkisg> ...of course you'd need to do that for every major update afterwards too... that's why I'm saying apt-proxy is better, because you'll do it just once and never bother with it anymore.
<Ricmat> OK - at this point, I think I'll just download everything from the net.  I need to have this stuff up and running X20 by Monday morning.....
<Ricmat> Thanks for trying, but I guess I'm more of a windows guy.  :-(
<Ricmat> When I get more time, I'll come back and see if I can make this all work.  Bye for now.
<mhall119> Nice Qimo review on Linux Today: http://maketecheasier.com/review-of-qimo-linux-for-kids/2010/08/26
<highvoltage> mhall119: whoah, nice!!!
<highvoltage> (@ the app list stuff)
<highvoltage> and nice review on qimo too
<mhall119> thanks
<highvoltage> we should link to that wiki page from the screenshots page
<mhall119> the list and pages were generated from the seed files + apt-cache with a bit of Perl magic
<highvoltage> really nice
<mhall119> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide/AppDocScript
<mhall119> for future reference
<dinda> mhall119: can you send me your email addy?  have some good news :)
<highvoltage> dinda: that list kind of helps that issue you mentioned where people keep asking what's included :)
<dinda> highvoltage: yes, that's exactly what we've been looking for :)
<dgroos> hi alkisg.  I've done lots of further attempts and reading and it looks like that I first need to resolve the issue of my /etc/network/interfaces defines the WAN-facing nic as using dhcp not static.
<dgroos> I can't get firefox to work on clients with a static setting.  Do I need to do the resolv.conf fix for firefox?
<dgroos> ...on lucid?
<dgroos> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LocalAppsResolvConf
<alkisg> OK, let's get this from the start. You don't need a static ip on the wan side, but do you want one?
<mhall119> highvoltage: my list doesn't have things like sabayon or ltsp
<mhall119> just the contents of ubuntu-edu-*
<mhall119> so it's not everything in Edubuntu
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah yes, I'll mention that on the page
<dgroos> Yes--the server already changed the ip once and that was a hassle since I didn't know what it had changed to...
<mhall119> highvoltage: is there a seed file for those kinds of things?
<mhall119> ah, desktop-gnome, I see it
<alkisg> dgroos: so you want a static wan ip? there are two ways for that, either with network manager and no /etc/network/interfaces, or vice-versa
<alkisg> (I usually go for the network manager because it enables the teachers to see the connection info)
<dgroos> As per instructions from several web pages I got rid of network manager
<alkisg> OK, then post your interfaces to pastebin
<dgroos> it seemed to be causing issues when I was trying to do something...
<dgroos> right
<alkisg> Nah, network manager is fine. Both ways are fine - just a matter of preference...
<dgroos> here it is: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/MTCqTr1w
<dgroos> I know that the defined address for eth1 is superfluous.
<alkisg> You have 3 nics?
<alkisg> How are they wired to your network?
<alkisg> (you can also change their names if it suits you)
<dgroos> Yes, and hoping to do bonding with the 2 gig cards, but for now eth2 isn't plugged in.
<alkisg> Are those cards pci-e or just pci?
<dgroos> how do I check?
<dgroos> Add-on NIC is probably the simple variety, the other 2 were built into this prof. grade server.
<alkisg> physically, pci-e cards are very small on their bottoms. But maybe you can also find out with `lspci | grep Ethernet`...
<alkisg> I'm guessing pci-e then, ok
<dgroos> The gig cards show something like: 03:01.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5704 Gigabit Ethernet (rev 10)
<dgroos> The wan facing nic (fast ethernet) is: 06:02.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 (rev 08)
<alkisg> dgroos: also, paste the result of route -n
<alkisg> (you'll need a gateway defined for eth1)
<dgroos> http://ltsp.pastebin.com/UzjN1kH1
<dgroos> That looks weird-- having multiple lines for eth0 and eth1?
<alkisg> Make a backup of your interfaces, run `sudo stop networking`, put this: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/imW9fE8v and then run `sudo start networking`
<alkisg> (you'll lose your net connection for a while of course)
<dgroos> ah... better go to my laptop :)
<alkisg> Also, paste your /etc/resolv.conf
<alkisg> (it should be kept with no modifications, but better be cautious...)
<dgroos> I type: sudo stop networking
<dgroos> it replies: stop: Unknown instance:
<alkisg> No problem, go on with the rest...
<dgroos> (question--I've got proc mounted or something, in another terminal window--is that an issue?)
<alkisg> No, but there's a small posibility that you might need a server reboot if stop/start networking won't make it
<alkisg> (for the changes to take effect)
<dgroos> upon typing sudo start network I get, "networking stop/waiting"
<dgroos> ...though internet works on localapps thin client.
<alkisg> What does `ifconfig -a` tell you now?
<dgroos> http://ltsp.pastebin.com/PyTWXaCC
<alkisg> dgroos: hmm is it easy to reboot the server, so that we don't try more start/stop stuff?
<alkisg> (lucid changed networking from init.d to upstart...)
<dgroos> for sure, I set up ilo :D
<dgroos> famous last words... :(  I'll call someone to open the room...
<alkisg> Ah, you don't have physical access? Ouch, you should say that before, to do better checking... :)
<dgroos> well, I had ilo working fine before... :)
<alkisg> What is "ilo"?
<dgroos> "integrated Lights Out" or something.  In other words, it is a special NIC on the server that is used to do remote management, like power on or restart the server when it becomes non-responsive.  I've not had it become unresponsive like this..s
<dgroos> alkisg: ok, got physical access, fixed ilo, did reboot.
<alkisg> dgroos: is the network working?
<dgroos> Yes, client rebooted and firefox on client as well.
<alkisg> OK, what's next?
<dgroos1> static ip?  here's my network file: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/nHPx7mpa
<alkisg> dgroos1: it is static now, isn't it?
<alkisg> (with the new interfaces file I gave you, eth1 got 10.51.0.199 == static...
<dgroos1> I thought so but there are too many unk variables for me at the moment...
<dgroos1> OK, let me check if I can update my chroot...
<dgroos1> oh yeah, do I need to mess with this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LocalAppsResolvConf
<alkisg> No, that's for 9.04
<dgroos1> ... sigh...
<alkisg> (and it isn't even needed for updating the chroot)
<dgroos1> when trying to update the chroot I get a bunch of these:
<dgroos1> Err http://us.archive.ubuntu.com lucid Release.gpg
<dgroos1>   Temporary failure resolving 'us.archive.ubuntu.com'
<dgroos1> I googled and goggled but to no avail...
<alkisg> Try this:
<alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<alkisg> ping www.google.com
<alkisg> What do you get?
<dgroos1> do I unmount first?
<alkisg> No need
<dgroos1> nothing...
<alkisg> What's the result of this?
<dgroos1> it waits till I hit control-C and still no output except ^c
<alkisg> (on the server):
<alkisg> (outside the chroot)
<alkisg> cat /etc/resolv.conf
<alkisg> cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/resolv.conf
<dgroos1> There's the problem!: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/4Ra4DH5G
<dgroos1> it was in the resolve.conf in the chroot!
<dgroos1> I guess they should be the same?
<alkisg> Yup
<alkisg> sudo cp...
<dgroos1> right, then rebuild client then things should be hunky dory, perhaps!
<alkisg> You don't need to rebuild the client to update the image
<alkisg> First update, then rebuild
<alkisg> Also, that resolv.conf doesn't matter for the thin clients, it only matters for the updating
<dgroos1> I actually meant update image.  Is rebuilding doing the apt-get update and so on?
<dgroos1> OK
<alkisg> Well, with rebuild we usually mean ltsp-build-client
<alkisg> update == apt-get update etc and ltsp-update-image
<dgroos1> I see, don't have to do that, I think.
<dgroos1> should I reload the new image (logout/login)?
<alkisg> If you want. Logout won't do it though, a reboot will be needed
<alkisg> But if you were having problem with firefox on the thin clients, it shouldn't matter
<alkisg> (because resolv.conf on the thin clients is generated dynamically upon boot)
<dgroos1> right--it auto reboots upon logout after image update...
<dgroos1> OK I'll try w/out...
<dgroos1> Thanks alkisg, I'm now able to advance further in updating the chroot.  When I get to the point where it says:
<dgroos1> Lastly, let's exit the chroot, unmount /proc, run ltsp-update-kernels  (in case there was a kernel upgrade in the chroot) and rebuild our NBD  thin-client image
<dgroos1> but then the code pasted tells a different order:
<alkisg> dgroos1: why don't you do all that with sch-scripts?
<alkisg> It takes care of everything automatically
<dgroos1> exit sudo ltsp-update-kernels sudo umount /opt/ltsp/i386/proc sudo ltsp-update-image
<dgroos1> Well, I was concerned that it might do something that is needed on the Greek setup but that would do something I didn't want on mine...
<alkisg> You just invoke the update menu, or the "get a shell inside the chroot" menu etc
<alkisg> Where are you getting that code above from?
<dgroos1> (If you can tell me which is correct order of events I'll edit the wiki page on: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
<alkisg> The best way is to use the ltsp-chroot script for that
<dgroos1> OK, in sch-scripts?
<alkisg> no, let me rephrase it:
<alkisg> sch-scripts does everything from a menu, but not all people have it, so never mind that
<alkisg> ltsp-chroot is a script contained in upstream ltsp
<alkisg> Currently, you have it there: /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/ltsp-chroot
<alkisg> But it's an old version (yeah even on lucid)
<alkisg> On newer versions it'll go on /usr/bin
<alkisg> So, instead of the wiki page telling people to do what's inside ltsp-chroot, why not download it instead for previous versions?
<alkisg> (that's what I proposed in the mailing list some days ago)
<alkisg> Here's the most recent version, in ltsp-upstream: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/server/scripts/debian/ltsp-chroot
<alkisg> So I think that the wiki page should tell people to download that file, save it to /usr/bin, and just use that for updating
<alkisg> (for newer ltsp versions, they'll already have it in /usr/bin, preinstalled...)
<dgroos1> I say you proposed that on the e-mail and replied and asked you a question an hour or 2 ago :)
<alkisg> Sorry, didn't get what you mean with that :-/
<dgroos1> basically, I was asking to where you copy that file!
<dgroos1> OK I copied it there but can't read if ownership/permissions are correct since with ls -la of /usr/bin/ there are too many items and it goes way off the page.
<alkisg> dgroos1: ls -lha /usr/bin/ltsp-chroot
<alkisg> sudo chmod +x /usr/bin/ltsp-chroot
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot --mount-proc --copy-resolv-conf --mount-package-cache apt-get update
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot --mount-proc --copy-resolv-conf --mount-package-cache apt-get dist-upgrade
<alkisg> Something like that.
<alkisg> (you don't need --copy-resolv-conf, you already copied it, I'm just saying...)
<dgroos1> Got this after :27:58 comment: ERROR: ltsp chroot not found: /opt/ltsp/amd64
<dgroos1> umount: /opt/ltsp/amd64/proc: not found
<dgroos1> umount: /opt/ltsp/amd64/var/cache/apt/archives: not found
<alkisg> Do you have an amd64 chroot or an i386 one?
<dgroos1> *command
<alkisg> --arch i386
<dgroos1> i386
<dgroos1> but the server is 64 itself
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot --arch i386 apt-get update
<alkisg> Or you can just run: sudo ltsp-chroot --arch i386
<alkisg> That will get you a shell inside the chroot
<alkisg> See all the options in the source page: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head%3A/server/scripts/debian/ltsp-chroot
<dgroos1> OK did this command, then... ?
<dgroos1> will check that out...
<alkisg> OK let me give you a full example:
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot --mount-proc --arch i386
<alkisg> apt-get update
<alkisg> apt-get dist-upgrade
<alkisg> exit
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-update-image
<alkisg> That updates your chroot.
<dgroos1> so I would do... sudo ltsp-chroot --arch i386 and then the others?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> If you want to mount /proc too, you just add that parameter
<alkisg> It gets unmounted automatically
<alkisg> You can also parameters (like ARCH) in a config file, /etc/ltsp/ltsp-chroot.conf
<dgroos1> This is probably easier but to eyes blurry from hours of troubleshooting...
<dgroos1> You really saved me, again!
<alkisg> ...maybe we should write a wiki page specifically for ltsp-chroot...
<dgroos1> YES!  I can do those!
<dgroos1> :D
<alkisg> :D
<dgroos1> How about updating the kernel?  I would like to fix this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -u && sudo ltsp-update-image --force
<alkisg> (that's on lucid only, for previous versions it should be: sudo ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -u && sudo ltsp-update-image && sudo ltsp-update-kernels)
<alkisg> Erm, sorry
<alkisg> When you say updating the kernel, when do you mean?
<alkisg> When a new kernel is available in the repositories?
<alkisg> apt-get dist-upgrade takes care of that, so forget about the update-initramfs -u
<alkisg> ltsp-update-image && ltsp-update-kernels are still needed
 * alkisg thinks he should probably take some time to rewrite that awful wiki page.. :-/
<dgroos1> Do I add the --arch 32 like this: sudo ltsp-chroot --arch 32 update-initramfs -u && sudo ltsp-update-image --force
<dgroos1> ?
<dgroos1> (I got errors about /opt/ltsp/amd64...
<alkisg> dgroos1: as a user, would you like that wiki page to tell you about LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS and other internal stuff, or would you prefer that page to use ltsp-chroot in its instructions?
<alkisg> --arch i386
<alkisg> Not 32...
<dgroos1> (where do I write that in the command you gave me?)
<dgroos1> right :P
<alkisg> Execute the series of commands that I wrote above, in the "full example"
<dgroos1> I did:
<alkisg> Ah, ok, about the kernel
<alkisg> A new full example:
<dgroos1> sudo ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -u && sudo ltsp-update-image --force
<alkisg> sudo ltsp-chroot --arch i386
<alkisg> apt-get update
<alkisg> apt-get dist-upgrade
<alkisg> (that gets you a new kernel, if available)
<dgroos1>  and got: ERROR: ltsp chroot not found: /opt/ltsp/amd64
<alkisg> exit
<dgroos1> OK
<alkisg> Wait. You got an error with that? :
<alkisg> (11:33:28 Î¼Î¼) alkisg: sudo ltsp-chroot --mount-proc --arch i386
<alkisg> ?
<dgroos1> to answer your wiki question, I like explanations but the main thing is what I have to do.  Does that answer your question?
<alkisg> Yes, it tells me we should delete half of that page
<alkisg> That page contains explanations about how stuff is implemented. It doesn't tell people how to do their work easily.
<dgroos1> This is what I did/got: mrg@gcos-server:~$ sudo ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -u && sudo ltsp-update-image --force
<dgroos1> ERROR: ltsp chroot not found: /opt/ltsp/amd64
<alkisg> dgroos1: forget that command
<alkisg> Try this one: sudo ltsp-chroot --mount-proc --arch i386
<alkisg> Do you get an error with that?
<dgroos1> no error!
<alkisg> OK, you're inside the chroot with proc mounted, with LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false etc
<alkisg> You did half of the wiki page. Let's go on. Do you want to update your kernels?
<dgroos1> OK :)  I'll believe you!
<dgroos1> yes...
<alkisg> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<dgroos1> good--it said 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded
<alkisg> That completely updates your chroot, including the kernel. But it doesn't update the server copy of the kernel (we'll do that below)
<alkisg> OK. Next: exit
<dgroos1> so looks like I'm up to date?
<dgroos1> yes, and unmount?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> After `exit`, the /proc is unmounted and you're outside of your chroot
<alkisg> No, you don't bother with mounting/unmounting
<dgroos1> right
<alkisg> Now, to update the server copies
<alkisg> For Lucid: sudo ltsp-update-image --force
<alkisg> For less that Lucid: sudo ltsp-update-image && sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<alkisg> But, you still need --arch in your case
<alkisg> So, sudo ltsp-update-image --force --arch i386
<alkisg> Or, for less than lucid, sudo ltsp-update-image --arch i386 && sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<dgroos1> oops, I already did sudo ltsp-update-image --force...?
<alkisg> If it runs, it's ok then, it autodetected your arch
<alkisg> *chroot
<dgroos1> cool.
<alkisg> That's all
<dgroos1> :D :D
<alkisg> So, 4 lines in total
<dgroos1> and 5 hours later... :D
<alkisg> ltsp-chroot, apt-get update && dist-upgrade, exit, update-image && kernels
<alkisg> If you think that's simpler than what's already on that wiki page, we should rewrite it...
<dgroos1> I really appreciate all the troubleshooting you did with me to fix my chroot/networking issues as well as updating stuff.
<dgroos1> Yes it is!  I'd volunteer, but my mind is mush right now...
<dgroos1> and I couldn't speak from understanding...
<dgroos1> My project wouldn't succeed without all of this help.  Let me know how I can be of help someday...
<alkisg> You're welcome. If you're still around 2 years from now, I'll ask for some language proofreading when we internationalize sch-scripts ;)
<dgroos1> Con Mucho Gusto!
<alkisg> Heh, and maybe a spanish translation too :P
<dgroos1> I speak it more or less fluently, my reading/writing, well, I'll ask my wife for help on that!
#edubuntu 2010-08-28
<mhall119> highvoltage: are there Maverick DVD images for Edubuntu yet?
<mhall119> nevermind, I found them
<highvoltage>  /win 33
<mhall119> only 33?
<mhall119> uploaded screeshots for kmplot, kwordquiz and parley to screenshots.debian.net
<mhall119> the should appear on the wiki pages I made yesterday as soon as the debian admins approve them
<mhall119> they'll also appear in the Ubuntu Software Center too
<highvoltage> mhall119: nice!
 * mhall119 be jammin
<mhall119> I was surprised those were the only 3 missing a screenshot
<mhall119> also, showed my son Marble, he thought it was awesome
#edubuntu 2010-08-29
<notgoogle> Edubuntu? school debian for Germany?
<mhall119> um....yes?
#edubuntu 2011-08-22
<alkisg> jbicha: I tried the gcompris package from your ppa in my Lucid box a few days ago, it seems to run fine. It's supposed to have a lot more features and stability than the older version.
<alkisg> But we're only using LTS releases here so we can't do extensive tests and give appropriate feedback...
<jbicha> alkisg: thanks, I'm surprised you used it from my PPA
<alkisg> I saw the bug report and I thought I'd comment on it, that's why I put your ppa, but no time for proper testing to report back :(
<jbicha> I deleted it from there fairly quickly as I was just experimenting with it
<alkisg> Ah sorry not your ppa, I tried it from this one: https://launchpad.net/~aapo-rantalainen/+archive/gcompris
<alkisg> (linked from in the bug report)
<jbicha> oh ok, my dev PPA gets broken stuff in it & I delete regularly, I don't expect people to use it
<jbicha> gcompris is so huge, it's difficult to really test it anyway
<alkisg> Yeah.. I'd put my kids to do it, but the last weeks they've been sitting a lot in front of screen so I turned off their PCs for the rest of the summer :D
<highvoltage> bon matin
<Damianos> So anybody using Edubuntu 11.04?  I read on the Edubuntu  page that it comes with "Gnome Classic"...does that mean Gnome 2.x or Gnome 3?
<ewl> "Ubuntu Studio does not currently use Unity. As the user logs in it will default to Gnome Classic Desktop (i.e. Gnome2)." under "Ubuntu Studio" at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ReleaseNotes. So I guess it's Gnome2?
<brunolambert> Damianos: it is gnome2
<Damianos> sweet, thanks!
<brunolambert> but it does contain Unity too
<brunolambert> I do not remember which one is the default
<Damianos> It says Gnome is the default
<Damianos> *It = web site
<alkisg> 11.04 doesn't have gnome 3 at all, does it?
<Damianos> Well, I think I'm going to ride it out on 10.10 for a while. Once the dust settles I may look into LMDE or straight Debian, but that won't be for at least a year.
<Damianos> alkisg: I just read on a forum that you need to do Gnome 3 via PPA so I guess Gnome 2 is what they're calling Gnome Classic in 11.04
<alkisg> Yes, I think gnome classic is the session, not the framework, as opposed to unity
<alkisg> All of them use gnome 2 in 11.04
<Damianos> ok
<alkisg> I.e. metacity, gnome-panel etc
<Damianos> The net is littered with A LOT of complaints over the DE situation in 11.04
<Damianos> It certainly has me avoiding it like the plague
<Damianos> It's a weird time in Linuxland....many distros seem to be in an awkward transitional phase right now
<Damianos> Despite all the complaining I see...I can actually see myself getting very used to Gnome 3...I don't mind waiting for implementations to mature either since GIMP 3 will be here before too long as well
#edubuntu 2011-08-23
<dgroos> Good Morning!
<highvoltage> good morning dgroos
<dgroos> highvoltage: how are things 'up north'?
<dgroos> (and east, technically)
<highvoltage> dgroos: good and there?
<jbicha> highvoltage: I was looking for an edubuntu developer to make a decision on bug 692295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692295 in Baltix "[FFe] Update gcompris to 9.6.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692295
<dgroos> Pretty good.  First day for teachers was yesterday and even though I'm not a teacher this year (on a study leave this year) I was back in class.
<highvoltage> I saw that in my inbox and I've been meaning to comment on it
<jbicha> I'm probably just too impatient...
<dgroos> I'm supporting the teachers using the classroom set ups with computers.
<dgroos> alkisg: ping
<highvoltage> jbicha: not at all, I just have too many distractions
<highvoltage> dgroos: oh great!
<dgroos> highvoltage: is it just my reader or have your blog posts on edubuntu been, well, truncated?
<highvoltage> dgroos: I think I've been hit by some wordpress bug, sometimes my feed gets truncated. I should probably look into that... :)
<dgroos> wordpress is kinda like that...
<alkisg> or here, dgroos: pong :D
<dgroos> alkisg: howdy
<alkisg> Hey dgroos, how are you?
<dgroos> pretty good/pretty busy
<dgroos> And yourself?
<alkisg> Exactly the same :)
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> I'm taking this year off so that I can concentrate on my dissertation but I'm also supporting 'my' teachers. :)
<dgroos> I want to install sch-scripts into the new fat client on which I'm working.
<dgroos> The image is on the server I used last year though I did delete the thin client image.
<dgroos> I already installed the client and am wondering about the server sch-scripts app.
<dgroos> How can I launch it if I can't gain super-user permissions?
<dgroos> (I saw you say on a forum that you can't sudo with fat clients).
<alkisg> dgroos: the sch-scripts client connects to the sch-daemon network service through a server socket in /var/...
<alkisg> A fat client doesn't have access to that socket
<alkisg> So, even if you could sudo, you wouldn't access the sch-daemon, so sch-scripts wouldn't work
<alkisg> So the teacher needs to either sit on the server, or on a thin client
<alkisg> The sch-scripts GUI won't work if it's ran from a fat client
<alkisg> So, the best you can do, is to ssh -X or vnc to the server, and run sch-scripts from there. Or to use a thin client for the teacher. Or something similar.
<dgroos> That was it--I thought you were running it from a fat client but it was from the server...
<alkisg> Or to use remoteapps
<alkisg> Maybe that last is the best option
<dgroos> hmmm remoteapps--I'll look it up.  Thanks!  I'll come back with a question, perhaps :)
<alkisg> dgroos: markit wants to sponsor an i18n sch-scripts version, we may have a new i18n sch-scripts version soon
<dgroos> :D congrats and great and thanks!
<dgroos> alkisg: and, if I can help with the translation en_us let me know, I'd like to help.
<alkisg> dgroos: very nice, I'll tell the other dev doing the i18n to send you the translations for proof-reading
<alkisg> As our english of course are not good enough for main language :)
<dgroos> also, I could help during the end of Dec with Spanish as I'll be with my Guatemalan-inlaws who could help.
<dgroos> I say again yer English is good very! than mine. :)
<alkisg> Sounds good too, but it might be better for the first spanish teacher that actually uses the program, to do the translation too
<dgroos> sure.
<alkisg> (translations need maintanance over time, as anything else in the software world)
<dgroos> (as I experienced!  Just let me know)
<dgroos> I've had no luck finding any info on how to use ltsp-remoteapps.  Do I just type: "ltsp-remoteapps sch-scripts"?
<dgroos> (I'm backing up my server at the moment and can't test.)
<alkisg> You also need some lts.conf setting about remoteapps
<alkisg> Let me find the exact name...
<alkisg> REMOTE_APPS=True
<alkisg> And you'll need to do something about the sudo part
<alkisg> (sudo sch-scripts, might not work with remote apps and need to edit sudoers instead)
<dgroos> In some list-server e-mails Todd O' wrote the following about using fat clients: "I was able to get root access by doing:"
<dgroos> $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 passwd -u root
<dgroos> $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 passwd
<dgroos> and setting the password.
<dgroos> does that relate?
<alkisg> dgroos: the clue here is "you almost never need sudo on fat clients"
<alkisg> Let's start there. WHY do you need sudo?
<dgroos> Quoted from above: "alkisg: (sudo sch-scripts, might not work with remote apps and need to edit sudoers instead)"
<alkisg> On the server
<dgroos> just trying to make sense of that statement...
<alkisg> Ah ok let me explain more
<alkisg> If you were sitting on the server and tried: sudo sch-scripts, what would happen?
<alkisg> You'd get a password prompt
<alkisg> Remoteapps unfortunately won't allow a text-based prompt etc
<alkisg> So you'll need a way around that problem
<alkisg> With sudoers, you can configure certain users or groups to be able to run "sudo sch-scripts" without the need of a password
<alkisg> All this on the server
<alkisg> So, when you try "ltsp-remoteapps sudo sch-scripts", you won't get a password prompt from the server, and it'll just run
<alkisg> Makes a bit more sense now?
<dgroos> got it.  So how might I find a how to about setting this up?
<dgroos> :)
<alkisg> Let me give you my greek page, I think google translate will be enough...
<dgroos> :D
<alkisg> http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?topic=3211.0
<dgroos> Thanks!  (of course our district has a filter on that page because of 'proxy avoidance' but I'll find a work around!)
<alkisg> Basically it's this:
<alkisg> sudo VISUAL=gedit visudo
<dgroos> interesting--I put it into google translate and it went through :)
<alkisg> And in the end of the file:
<alkisg> teacher ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/sch-scripts
<alkisg> Haha google rocks :D
<dgroos> so I can put this line several times: teacher ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/sch-scripts  but just using a different name for the different teachers?  Do you think there will be issues if 2 teachers are using this concurrently?
<alkisg> You can use a group there instead if you prefer, but yeah of course you can put it several times
<alkisg> I think groups need a % in their name (syntax-wise)
<alkisg> The sch-scripts daemon is designed to have as many GUI connections as you like
<alkisg> So not a problem for concurrrent users
<dgroos> I'll put this dialog on my blog for future reference, thanks :)
<alkisg> So it would be:
<alkisg> %teachers ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/sch-scripts
<kukac> Hi, I am just installing edubuntu 11.04 and I have difficulties with ltsp and unity
<kukac> Could someone help me?
<kukac> please
<alkisg> Such as?
<kukac> I have a server and when I chroot to client, I cant install software on client side (eg. italc-client), because apt tries to load some place called ftpmaster....
<alkisg> And how is that related to unity?
<kukac> alkisg: unity is other question. I purged it, but I get always some alerts telling me that it cant load unity. I choosed classic interface, but it does not count, it seems
<alkisg> To set classic-gnome as the default session instead of Unity in Ubuntu >= 11.04, put LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome" in lts.conf
<alkisg> About the chroot and apt-get install problem, put the output of this command to pastebin: cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
<kukac> alkisg: concerning ltsp, I suppose that I should not see both server interface on client, but I do. It seems that it is not the chrooted environment I get, but the server's one
<alkisg> kukac: you have a misunderstanding there
<alkisg> When you sit on a thin client, you actually sit on the server
<alkisg> Not in the chroot
<alkisg> All the user programs, the session, openoffice, firefox etc run on the server
<highvoltage> a thin client is typically a bit small for me to sit on
<alkisg> So whatever commands you issue on gnome-terminal, they also run on the server, and show your server nics etc
<highvoltage> (but some servers are just the right size)
<kukac> alkisg: I see then.
 * alkisg will never ever learn to use prepositions correctly :D
<kukac> alkisg: in the ltsp ubuntu help, I read that I should install italc-master on server and client on the chroot, but when I install master, a client is installed too and I cant install anything in chroot
 * highvoltage was just joking :)
<alkisg> Btw what's the correct preposition there? "at a thin client"?
<highvoltage> I think so
<highvoltage> I guess I would've said "If you're on a session on a thin client, you're actually on a desktop session on the server" or something like that
 * alkisg promises that he'll remember that for the next 2 minutes :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'll keep you to that!
<alkisg> kukac: Meh someone should just delete that italc ubuntultsp wiki page, it's too badly written,  I don't think anyone managed to follow it
<kukac> alkisg: oh! and there is not any acceptable online help?
<kukac> alkisg: oh! and there is any acceptable online help?
<alkisg> Sorry but I've helped tooo many people install italc, I don't think I can do it just one more time, but if you search the irc logs, you'll find the necessary steps at least 10 times :)
<alkisg> But the #edubuntu and the #ltsp logs
<alkisg> *Both, not but
<kukacs> alkisg: I am kukac on edubunt here
<alkisg> Did the unity / LDM_XSESSION directive work?
<kukacs> alkisg: I am trying to find it
<alkisg> sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<alkisg> And there, put:
<alkisg> [Default]
<alkisg> LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome"
<alkisg> And reboot the clients..
<kukacs> alkisg: i have two line only in that file: [default]
<kukacs>   LDM_THEME=edubuntu
<alkisg> Put a third one, the one with LDM_XSESSION
<alkisg> Don't put [default] twice, leave it just once in the top
<alkisg> Or at the top, or on the top, or whatever :P
<kukacs> alkisg: it seems that I dont have ldm installed
<alkisg> kukacs, you do have ldm install in the chroot
<alkisg> *installed
<alkisg> Don't worry about it, just try putting that line
<kukacs> alkisg: I am checking
<kukacs> alkisg: this alert message is resolved, thanks
<kukacs> alkisg: what should I do with this italc thing?
<kukacs> alkisg: this is the chrooted apt source.list http://paste.ubuntu.com/673383/
<alkisg> The first line isn't correct
<alkisg> deb http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu natty main restricted universe multiverse
<alkisg> See /etc/apt/sources.list for the correct line
<alkisg> And if you didn't do anything weird, file a bug in edubuntu about it
<kukacs> alkisg: it seems that there is no network connection in chroot environment under /opt/ltsp/i386
<alkisg> sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/
<kukacs> alkisg: should I move to debian edu maybe?
<kukacs> alkisg: in place of edubuntu?
<alkisg> That's your call, I'm using ubuntu/ltsp for years without problems
<kukacs> alkisg: this resolv.conf helped, it is networking now. you are a wizzard
<kukacs> alkisg: should I install then italc-client there? in chroot?
<alkisg> kukacs, as I said, I don't have the appetite to go once again through the italc installation steps...
<kukacs> alkisg: my other problem, with italc, that it found only the main desktop login as client, but not the real client
<alkisg> I helped more than a dozen people, not one of them corrected the wiki...
<alkisg> If you want search through the irc logs
<alkisg> You'll find the steps there more than 10 times
<kukacs> alkisg: I am searching, thanks
<kukac> alkisg: what do you think, this description is correct? http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/italc
#edubuntu 2011-08-24
<reuss_> hi, I have some problem with dhcp in ltsp: this is a mixed network with clients that boot from pxe, the others not. The problem is with these last ones: they could not connect to the internet. Any clue? Please...
<reuss_> I would like to ensure that the ltsp server become a simple network gateway for the non pxe booters.
<reuss_> I would like to add Hungarian keyboard for all users. how to do it?
<alkisg> sudo dpkg-reconfigure console-setup, either on the server or the chroot
<alkisg> The best option is to select Hungarian language on installation, all is done automatically then
<stgraber> highvoltage: 16s for 139M, not too bad :)
<highvoltage> nice
#edubuntu 2011-08-25
<highvoltage> stgraber: what's the wallpaper settings like for lightdm? will it follow the gconf defaults for stretch/zoom/pan/etc or would it have to be specified in its configuration?
<highvoltage> (zoom works best since it's centers the wallpaper horizontally, stretches vertically and cuts off the extra parts on the side)
<stgraber> highvoltage: AFAIK it doesn't support configuration
#edubuntu 2012-08-20
<spearwielder> I'm a local IT guy trying to fix a computer, and haven't dealt much with edubuntu previously, so I thought I'd come here with my issue
<spearwielder> basically the client upgraded recently [from 10.10 to 11.04 I think], and now the system won't boot
<spearwielder> well, it boots, but seems to immediately crash upon trying to display anything graphical
<jocarter> so you get a grub menu at least?
<jocarter> can you get into the recovery mode option?
<spearwielder> it ends up with what looks like a login screen [with broken image], an error message, and the mouse/keyboard nonfunctional
<spearwielder> last dmesg log line is [20.010700] [drm] initialized overlay support
<spearwielder> no grub menu loads, no
<jocarter> which display chip? and did they previously install a proprietary driver?
<spearwielder> all hardware tests appear to be normal
<spearwielder> I'm not quite sure how to look up the display chip or driver into
<spearwielder> *info
<jocarter> how did you initialize the upgrade?
<jocarter> also, you could perhaps boot from a live cd (if you have one), typing "lspci" from a command line will show you which display card it has (among other things)
<spearwielder> I didn't do the upgrade, it was done by the user
<spearwielder> it was brought to me because it no longer works
<jocarter> ok.
<jocarter> I doubt the user did something like an "apt-get dist-upgrade" in that case :)
<spearwielder> very possible
<spearwielder> I'm tempted to tell him that it's fucked and just reinstall
<spearwielder> I can get all of his data too, so that's not an issue
<spearwielder> but I'm not really sure it's worth the time spent trying to repair it
<jocarter> as a side-note, the 'upgrade' option on the dvd actually wipes out the rest of the system except for /home
<jocarter> so you might be able to just pop in a 12.04 disc and choose the upgrade option and install any other software that was previously installed
<spearwielder> hmm, that's a thought
#edubuntu 2012-08-21
<jocarter> thanks, queuebot
<jocarter> http://www.junauza.com/2012/08/best-educational-linux-distributions.html
<stgraber> nice
<jocarter> we need an 'edubuntu in the press' section on the website that links to all of these
 * jocarter needs some edubuntu website time badly
<smartboyhw> Hi, how can I contribute to Edubuntu by testing?:)
<jocarter> smartboyhw: we need lots of upgrade testing, if you could test 11.04 -> 12.04 -> 12.10 upgrades for i386 and amd64 that would be great. even better if you could report on it to the edubuntu-devel mailing list
<smartboyhw> Er, I don't saw people testing the new daily of Edubuntu 12.04.1, should I do that too?
<ThiagoNalli> There edubuntu chat in Portuguese of Brazil?
<jocarter> smartboyhw: well, I know for a fact that stgraber and I are testing those :)
<jocarter> ThiagoNalli: there used to be a channel for that, but unfortunately it died down
<smartboyhw> Hi, I am back!
<ThiagoNalli> jocarter, thanks
<smartboyhw> jocarter: Downloading 11.04 iso, will test after download:)
<jocarter> smartboyhw: great
<smartboyhw> jocarter: I will leave the test for tmr. I think that will take a very long time to upgrade in my VM.
<jocarter> smartboyhw: ok, whenever you have the time. thanks!
<smartboyhw> Ok
<jocarter> stgraber: oops, I get busybox on i386 ltsp live
<jocarter> (that's on kvm though so maybe it's just weirdness)
<stgraber> jocarter: it's working here
<alkisg> http://www.guiadopc.com.br/analises/27107/review-edubuntu-12-04.html
<jocarter> alkisg: cool!
<alkisg> (of course not mine, just found it while googling)
<jocarter> nice that the portuguese translations also worked in the screenshots :)
<jocarter> "Upon installation, you will be asked to choose the number of packages in the system will be any friendlier. This option of choice is undoubtedly the smartest choice of the maintainers of the system, it allows choosing the target audience."
<jocarter> nice going stgraber :)
<stgraber> :)
#edubuntu 2012-08-22
<ogra_> jocarter, yo
<jocarter> hellogra_
<ogra_> jocarter, what happened to that tablet you wanted to send, do i have to worry that customs ate it or was it simply not sent ?
<jocarter> ogra_: it was sent around 3 weeks ago iirc
<jocarter> ogra_: I think I forwarded you the tracking number but the email was all in french :)
<ogra_> ugh
 * ogra_ goes fishing in his spam folder
<jocarter> ogra_: I don't think alkisg got it yet either, it was sent by cheap mail so we're not sure how long it would take. I thought that you would have gotten it by last week already, at last.
<ogra_> ok, i'll watch out for it
 * jocarter will just forward it again
 * alkisg hasn't gotten it yet... when was it shipped?
<stgraber> jocarter: it was sent with canadapost, so the tracking number is useless
 * alkisg checks his mail again
<jocarter> yeah once it leaves the country it is't tracked anymore
<stgraber> (I just checked and they just say that it was billed...)
<stgraber> well, AFAICS it wasn't even tracked in the country ;)
<alkisg> Ah ok if tracking is useless no need to check mails :D
 * ogra_ finds the last main from jocarter as "EMEA RMB Results for 1 May 2012"
<jocarter> ogra_: oh well. it seems it will get there when it gets there then :)
<ogra_> yep
<alkisg> stgraber: did you get it to boot edubuntu?
<ogra_> i'm just wondering where that mail went though ... i dislike losing mails
<stgraber> alkisg: nope... apparently our models are slightly different from the ones the kubuntu folks have, making the bootloader quite unhappy
<stgraber> I received a UART to USB cable yesterday and I have a tablet that's been taken apart to get to the pins, so I might be able to get some debug output eventually
<alkisg> Ouch... I hope I get that sysadmin job for this year, will give me time to fiddle with it
<alkisg> Btw could some of you guys sign my ssh key? I'm thinking of applying for a DM in the future, and I only got one DD signature so far, so I'll need "another trust path"...
<alkisg> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=alkisg&op=vindex
<alkisg> (first one)
<alkisg> bbl :)
<ogra__> jocarter, thanks for the mail, that doesnt have my phone number anywhere on it
<ogra__> jocarter, if you send something to europe you need to put that into the docs for customs, else they will send it back if they cant contact me
<ogra__> i guess for alkis it will be the same
<jocarter> ogra_: I checked with pierre-luc, he did include your phone number, at least
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> then i'll just wait for the call
#edubuntu 2012-08-23
<neta_> hi
<neta_> hi
#edubuntu 2012-08-24
<Guest88311> I dont want to be guest 88311
<jocarter> stgraber: did you see? someone did actually send an email about weblive :)
#edubuntu 2012-08-25
<humph> Hello all, I need some help please with information which I cannot find. I have an Edubuntu 12.4 server running. I am able to boot thin clients which have pentium and dual core processors, but when I try and boot thin clients like HP T5300 with 533MHz processor & 512MB ram it goes about half way and freezes before obtaining the desktop from the server. I test this same thin client on an OLD centos LTSP it worked. However I would li
<jocarter> humph: your paragraph cut off at "I would li..."
<jocarter> humph: are you familiar with using lts.conf? perhaps that thin client needs to use a vesa driver for the display, you could find that information in the ltsp manual (I need to pop out for a bit but will be back later)
<humph> Sorry ran out of room "I would like to use the modern Edubuntu"
<Jak_Atackka> Hello! I'm scouring the Linux-related IRC channels of the internet, hoping that someone can help me. I'm trying to configure my bootloader, but for whatever reason it won't save any changes I make to the .cfg file. It's on a separate /boot partition (/dev/sda1), because my motherboard is UEFI-only. Does anybody know how I can set it so changes I make to the /boot partition are permanent?
<solv> Is there anyone here who has setup LDAP authentication on edubuntu 12.04.  I can get the list of users from the openLDAP server (a clearOS box), but I can't get either lightdm or ldm to log me on with those users, it just sits at the login screen.  Have followed both the ubuntu wiki for LDAP Client authentication and the LTSP guide...at the end of my rope
#edubuntu 2012-08-26
<issa> I have installed edubuntu on 20 student computers, and the teacher's computer as well .... i tried to setup epoptes but no luck any help ?
<alkisg> issa: did you follow the installation page?
<alkisg> http://www.epoptes.org/installation
<alkisg> If so, at which point are you having problems?
<issa> i thought that it is shipped by default
<alkisg> Ah sorry I didn't try out the default installation recently
<alkisg> So up until now, you basically didn't do anything related to installing epoptes/epoptes-client?
<alkisg> No key transferring etc?
<issa> no
<issa> correct me if i am wrong ... teacher's pc must run epoptes, each student pc must run epoptes-client
<alkisg> Right, but the epoptes public keys need to be transfered to the client computers, and also an /etc/hosts entry needs to be added
<alkisg> AFAIK in edubuntu it only works out of the box for ltsp (remotely booted computers)
<alkisg> For standalone clients like yours, you need to follow some parts of the installation page I pasted above, especially the keys transferring part
<alkisg> So, on a client, put "ip-of-teacher-ip server" in /etc/hosts, and then run: sudo epoptes-client -c
<alkisg> *ip-of-teacher-pc
<alkisg> E.g. 192.168.0.1 server
<issa> great, do i need any special configuration on the teacher's pc ?
<alkisg> No, just to add the teacher in the epoptes group and logout/login for the change to take effect
<issa> thanks a lot .... i will try it later on today :)
<alkisg> Remember to put the word "server" there, not the actual hostname of the teacher pc
<issa> ok
<alkisg> If it doesn't work with the first try, read the installation page for more details, or come back here :)
#edubuntu 2013-08-19
<smartboyhw> stgraber, highvoltage: I noticed that the dash icon in 13.10 is now the Ubuntu one, not the Edubuntu version. I have a workaround here, so should I propose a merge proposal for edubuntu-artwork for that?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yep, that would be nice
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, https://code.launchpad.net/~smartboyhw/ubuntu/saucy/edubuntu-artwork/fix-unity-dash-launcher-icon/+merge/180843
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: thanks, I've taken wednesday off for the lts point release, will catch up on all my edubuntu todos then as well.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, great. I will be here to test the images:)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ah, good. I'm on paperwork duty for 12.04.3 (release notes and announcement for Ubuntu) but should still have some time to help with Edubuntu as needed (however I'm flying tomorrow so won't be able to help much until Wednesday)
<stgraber> highvoltage, smartboyhw: that patch is wrong, you're missing matching changes to the dpkg divert logic and we need to make sure the upgrades will work properly (old divert removed, diverted copy restored, new divert put in place)
<stgraber> running with that existing patch would cause a file conflict with unity and file overwrites everytime edubuntu-artwork or unity get updated (that and divert a non-existing file too)
<highvoltage> stgraber: perhaps comment that on the LP merge request? (fwiw)
<stgraber> highvoltage: done
<highvoltage> coolies.
<smartboyhw> stgraber, how to fix then?
<smartboyhw> I thought it should be the same as before:_
<stgraber> smartboyhw: you'll need to also change debian/edubuntu-artwork.postrm and debian/edubuntu-artwork.preinst
<smartboyhw> stgraber, got it:)
<smartboyhw> stgraber, pushed a new revision to the branch, plz check
<highvoltage> diverts are always a pain to work with. probably one of the most risky aspects of debian packaging.
<smartboyhw> :0
<smartboyhw> Oops, should be :)
<stgraber> yeah, I'll need some extra time to think of all the possible upgrade scenari and make sure we don't end up with dangling symlinks or leftover files on disk
<stgraber> at least it's good to see that the unity folks finally decided to abolish their stupid abi-specific icon directory
<smartboyhw> stgraber, \o/:)
<smartboyhw> stgraber, so can you review the merge-proposal again? The files you told me are fixed already
<stgraber> smartboyhw: not today and probably not this week, sorry I'm busy
<smartboyhw> Alright
<smartboyhw> Wait till Wednesday for highvoltage then
#edubuntu 2013-08-20
<highvoltage> stgraber: do we know more or less when the lts test images will become available!
<highvoltage> (heh, I meant question mark there not exclamation)
 * smartboyhw asked on #ubuntu-release already...
<smartboyhw> No answers yet though:(
<stgraber> highvoltage: Steve is the release engineer for that one, so probably not until he wakes up
<stgraber> (I'll be on a plane very shortly so I'm not going to start doing any release work before I get back home)
<highvoltage> stgraber: k
<kidinklin> hy
#edubuntu 2013-08-21
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, so, we are supposed to test things right?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yep, I'm syncing the images still (getting around 200kB/s so it takes a bit of time)
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: and have a meeting in an hour or so. check the test cases on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/301/builds and report any issues on launchpad and link there
<highvoltage> (if you're going to do some iso testing :) )
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, I will, but I have Ubuntu Studio here as priority;P
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: coolies
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, I do wonder though: Why does the edubuntu-devel and this channel sound so quiet?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: ah, edubuntu-devel doesn't actually exist formally/officially
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: this channel is actually for both.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, edubuntu-devel mailing list
<smartboyhw> ...
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: ah yes.
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: things have indeed been quiet recently. we had some discussion last week to get some more of the samba work implemented that's high priority for 14.04.
<highvoltage> but things are a bit stagnated at the moment and it would be nice to get some nice momentum going again.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, OK
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, BTW, you'd better update your Ubuntuosphere box in the website, since there are new flavours now.
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yeah I haven't touched that site in 8 months.
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: will give some attention there too some time.
<highvoltage> (ah you meant the edubuntu site)
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yes, I really don't like the edubuntu site currently. we had lots of ideas for it but ran out of steam. I'd like a simpler less noisy theme for it some time.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, alright
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, you did say that you'll have time to review the m.p. for edubuntu-artwork today..
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yep. I ended up having to work today but will still be able to get to it :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: the current images are good for testing right?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, which ISO are you currently downloading to test?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, eh, I mean, amd64 or i386..
<smartboyhw> Or BOTH?:O
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, and wait, why are you downloading THAT?
<smartboyhw> highvoltage,  for 12.04.3 it would be http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/precise/dvd/current/
<stgraber> highvoltage: they may be good. Please start by testing LTSP (live and post-install) as we had some problem with it for alternates and I'm not sure whether Edubuntu should get respun too
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: oops, yes http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/precise/dvd/current/ is what I actually meant (copied and pasted wrong tab)
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: sorry for almost sending you on wild goosechase!
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, phew:P
<smartboyhw> Which arch are you downloading currently? amd64 or i386?
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: I'm starting with i386, starting in a few mins or so
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, OK I will go with amd64 then
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: great
<highvoltage> well, LTSP Live is fine at least.
<highvoltage> we should probably check that actual 64 bit thin clients also work some time.
<stgraber> well, they won't with Edubuntu
<stgraber> since we only ship 32bit chroots, but I usually check with the alternate
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok good (that it's at least checked on alternates)
<stgraber> highvoltage: however we don't have alternate on > 12.04, so it's just tested on the lts ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I suppose very few people use 64 bit on thin clients anyway. still nice to know that it still works :)
<highvoltage> my saucy dvd's are also almost finished syncing. going to give them some attention too later tonight.
 * smartboyhw is still zsyncing the Precise amd64 ISO
<highvoltage> i386 is good for live ltsp + installed.
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, heh, I think I have to sleep now, still not yet finished download of amd64 Precise:(
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: ok. I'm around half-way with amd64 so no problem
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, great:)
<highvoltage> stgraber: edubuntu 12.04.3 i386/amd64 looks good and past the test cases. I'll poke some more and see how it goes with the others before marking as ready-for-release
#edubuntu 2013-08-22
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, wow, 12.04.3 testcases are fully completed, you can mark them as ready now:)
<JustinMarks> Hello everyone.
<highvoltage> smartboyhw: yeah I just wanted to go through them again and check that all the apps open fine and whether there are any serious bugs worth noting
<highvoltage> stgraber: 12.04.3 also gets a new xorg stack right?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<highvoltage> stgraber: hey
<highvoltage> stgraber: I was out all night. have I missed anything yet?
<stgraber> highvoltage: not really, we'll know more soon but there's a good chance we'll release tomorrow instead
<stgraber> things are starting to look good but we had to respin kubuntu and xubuntu earlier today (their alternate images) and we're still trying to get wubi to work
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah ok. the edubuntu isos are looking good at least.
<stgraber> cool
<stgraber> highvoltage: did you do any change to the release notes on the wiki or are they good as they are?
<highvoltage> stgraber: ah, I checked the etherpad and the notes on the website, but didn't review the wiki notes...
<highvoltage> stgraber: which page is taht?
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes
<highvoltage> stgraber: is edubuntu affected by the wubi bugs that affected xubuntu/kubuntu?
<stgraber> highvoltage: xubuntu and kubuntu had kernel version problems but that wsa because they were alternate images, we're fine
<highvoltage> ok
<stgraber> highvoltage: and for wubi, the bugs are related to the version available on the website not that on the media, so we should be fine there too
<highvoltage> ok some version numbers have been updated, I'll just update that on the wiki page
<highvoltage> oh right, we inherit that section from a common section.
<highvoltage> stgraber: wiki page looks good.
#edubuntu 2013-08-25
<smartboyhw> highvoltage, when will you merge my branch?:P
<Soroush731> join #wirelessarmy
<Soroush731> join #wirelessarmy
#edubuntu 2015-08-17
<langxm> hi
<langxm> if games in edubuntu are rebuild in javascript
<langxm> children can use the games everywher
#edubuntu 2015-08-18
<dgroos_> Using ltsp-pnp/ on Ubuntu 14.04 (server is 64, clients 32, using pae version on server) Prob: FAT clients donât boot. I get:
<dgroos_> Trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default Could not find kernel image: vmlinuz
<dgroos_> ideas? There is an image at /opt/ltsp/â¦
<dgroos> oops, meant to post in #ltsp, am moving thereâ¦
#edubuntu 2016-08-28
<crusie> hi, we have a lot of old laptops laying around and we just recently enrolled in google apps for education - so we could use more computers for the students. I was thinking about using lubuntu, since its lightweight and runs just fine on my test laptop. would you think edubuntu runs just as fine ? also is it possible to do a network automated install? we have mdt at our school and it would make my job so much easier
<highvoltage> lubuntu is probably better for an old laptop, you can find ubuntu-edu bundles in the software centre that gives you the same apps as on edubuntu
#edubuntu 2017-08-21
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [0.7.9-153-g16a7302f-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 0.7.9-233-ge586fe35-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-08-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.16-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.10-0ubuntu1~16.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-08-25
<Costas> Hello everyone, does anyone know if edubuntu is still active?
#edubuntu 2019-08-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (disco-proposed/main) [19.1-1-gbaa47854-0ubuntu1~19.04.1 => 19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~19.04.1] (core, edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [19.1-1-gbaa47854-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [19.1-1-gbaa47854-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 19.2-21-ge6383719-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-08-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-flashback (focal-proposed/universe) [3.36.3-0ubuntu1 => 3.36.4-0ubuntu1] (edubuntu)
