#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-27
<dholbach> hi
<tseng> hi daniel
<dholbach> hey brandon
<dholbach> how's it going?
<tseng> good thanks
<schweeb> omg it's dholbach
<dholbach> hey schweeb :)
<schweeb> how's things
<dholbach> busy :(
* schweeb is trying to get his laptop all working
<schweeb> no sound yet :-/
<dholbach> good luck with that
<dholbach> i'll be off to bed after i got rid of the mosquitoes/gnats
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> my front yard is a pond, I know all about mosquitos
<dholbach> and my lazy dog is just watching me happily, while i jump through the room and chase those bastards *GNA*
<schweeb> lazy dogs are better than any cat though!
* schweeb h8s cats
<dholbach> at least ogra's cats chase mosquitoes at his place, i was nearly envying him :)
<schweeb> heh
<dholbach> ok boys... i'm off to bed - sleep tight! :)
<schweeb> nite
<GNULinuxer> hello, I'd like to package, maintain Mediawiki for Breezy ... what is the procedure to apply?
<Amaranth> GNULinuxer: Join #ubuntu-motu
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> nevermind, my tabs are one off
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> lol
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> what is the procedure?
<Amaranth> GNULinuxer: Read the Debian New Maintainer's Guide, make a package, and submit it for review.
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> make any package or the one i intend to maintain?
<Amaranth> the one you intend to maintain
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> and where should I submit it for review?
<Amaranth> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> thanks
<Amaranth> if you have any question ask here
<Amaranth> but it would probably be better to ask them tomorrow, it's sunday and this place is pretty much dead :)
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> fine
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> it's already monday here though!
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> what is the difference between a MOTU and a maintainer?
<schweeb> MOTUs are maintainers of Universe
<schweeb> a full maintainer can upload to main
<ups> hi
<ups> i cant mark bugs as duplicate in malone
<ups> keeps giving " Sorry, a system error occurred" message
<robitaille> ups,  has it ever worked?  I know it wasn't possible a while back, but I haven't tried since.
<ups> oh
<ups> i just started looking at malone
<ups> didn't know it was broken forever
<ups> any idea where can i file bug on malone?
<robitaille> ups,  not broken...actively being worked on with new features being added very regularly.  malone is a very new piece of software
<ups> yeah, but since its being used for universe packages, some basic functionality should be there
<ups> well found where to file bug on malone
<robitaille> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/malone/+filebug
<robitaille> I just found it as well.  It took a while....  I still prefer bugzilla to malone.
<ups> in its current state, me too - but ubuntu's bugzilla is very slow on slow internet connections
<ivoks> hi
<\sh> ups: only because of heavy javascript actions in there
<ups> \sh, not quite - see #2560
<ivoks> did someone managed to start serpentine?
<\sh> ups: where? bugzy or malone?
<ups> bugzilla
<\sh> ups: but this is what I said...it's slow because of javascript action...this bloody .js file is not nice at all
<ups> actually that .js file is downloaded on every page load - and it can't be cached because of the use of SSL in bugzilla
* \sh 's head is still paining from friday
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: gday
<\sh> hey Unfrgiven
<GNULinuxer> Hello, I want to be the maintainer of MediaWiki for Ubuntu. Can anyone guide me through the process?
<Treenaks> GNULinuxer: have you read the MOTU pages on the wiki?
<GNULinuxer> Treenaks> yes
<Amaranth> GNULinuxer: Didn't we go through this 12 hours or so ago? :)
<Treenaks> so you know how to create packages, etc.
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> yes ... but I thought about talking to more people
<GNULinuxer> :)
<GNULinuxer> Treenaks> I am a bit new to *Debian* package management ... but I am experienced with GNU/Linux and I am competent
<GNULinuxer> Treenaks> I am reading the Debian New Mainatiners' Guide
<GNULinuxer> Treenaks> do I need to create the package before I apply?
<GNULinuxer> I am at the moment on Hoary ... but the package will be for Breezy,  so how do I make sure there are no incompatible changes?
<GNULinuxer> Do I need to move to Breezy now?
<GNULinuxer> anyone?
<Amaranth> GNULinuxer: Do you know how to use a chroot?
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> yes
<Amaranth> install breezy in a chroot
<Treenaks> pbuilder chroot = fine
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> so I have to install Breezy in a chrooted dir?
<GNULinuxer> oh, pk
<GNULinuxer> ok
<GNULinuxer> so I need to apply after the pacakge is ready?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> more or less
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> fine
<Amaranth> if you just want to do that one package you don't need to be a MOTU
<Amaranth> just get 3 MOTUs to review it and they upload it
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> but do I need to propose the package first?
<Amaranth> then if you have a new version of the package you only need one review
<Amaranth> GNULinuxer: no, not really
<Amaranth> just make sure debian doesn't already have it
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> fine
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> and what if I want to be a MOTU?
<Amaranth> well, you have to do a bit more for that
<GNULinuxer> like?
<Amaranth> for one your gpg key needs to be signed by someone in the strong set (this can be a PITA)
<Amaranth> i think it might actually need to be signed by someone who is a debian or ubuntu maintainer
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> ohh ... you mean he needs to know me
<Amaranth> or someone they signed and so on
<Amaranth> yeah
<Unfrgiven> \sh: i needed some help with gmetadom
<Unfrgiven> \sh: doing a build, it is somehow looking for gcc-3.4
<Amaranth> and you need to put yourself on the agenda for a community council meeting to becoming a member (after you've made a couple packages)
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> I am from India and I suspect if there are any Ubuntu maintainers here
<Amaranth> err, become a member
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> i see
<Unfrgiven> \sh: yet there is no such text in the source files. so i dont know where or why its searching for gcc-3.4
<ogra> GNULinuxer, nope, you only need someone whose key is signed and on the keyservers normaly...
<GNULinuxer> ogra> anybody?
<ogra> GNULinuxer, not anybody....
<GNULinuxer> ogra> he doesn't need to be an Ubuntu devel?
<ogra> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
<Treenaks> ogra: it forgot about my key because henkp is clueless about gpg keys
<ogra> if you make a trust path check to me with the above url, then _anybody_ who is connected to me _anyhow_ for example
<GNULinuxer> ogra> my question is, does he need to be a Ubuntu devel?
<Treenaks> ogra: try 3FA5E031
<ogra> GNULinuxer, even if its via several other people
<ogra> GNULinuxer, nope, as i said, his key has to be connected _anyhow_
<GNULinuxer> ogra> what if he is trusted but disconnected from any ubuntu devel?
<ogra> GNULinuxer, even if there are 10 persons between him and me, thats fine
<GNULinuxer> ogra> you mean he has to be linked to an ubuntu-devel anyhow ...
<ogra> GNULinuxer, yes, anyhow....
<Treenaks> ogra: hm, it works again, nevermind
<GNULinuxer> ogra> i see
<ogra> GNULinuxer, but that doesnt mean he needs to have met a ubuntu devel
<GNULinuxer> ogra> yeah I realize that
<ogra> thats what the web of trust is all about
<GNULinuxer> ogra> yes
<ogra> so if you find someone whose key is on one of the keyservers and signed, its most liekly he is connected...
<GNULinuxer> ogra> ok
<ogra> next you have to become a member
<GNULinuxer> ogra> how do i become a member?
<ogra> which means:
<ogra> make a wiki page about you
<GNULinuxer> and ?
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/DanielRobitaille is a good example
<ogra> make a substantial contributuion like:
<ogra> write a howto wiki page, make some artwork, fix a bug etc
<ajmitch> hi
<GNULinuxer> ogra> will making a package do?
<ogra> after you made these two, you set yourself on the agenda for a community council meeting...the council then decides if your contribution was enough, your wiki page is ok etc... if yes, you get a member
<ogra> GNULinuxer, sure, a package would do too, but we are short o maintainers, so it can take a while until it gets reviewed....
* ajmitch is finally finished at uni, as of this morning :)
<ogra> GNULinuxer, ask Amaranth ;) he had fun finding people to review smeg ;)
<GNULinuxer> ogra> and that's only for becoming a MOTU ... for simply submitting a package that won't be required
<Amaranth> ogra: took me 9 hours of annoying everyone who joined the channel :)
<ogra> GNULinuxer, thats for becoming a member
<ogra> Amaranth, wow
<ogra> Amaranth, thats faster then i thought
<ogra> GNULinuxer, for becoming a MOTU we have to see some more packaging work of you
<Amaranth> ogra: _everyone_
<Amaranth> ogra: several times
<ogra> which is the next step after becoming member
<ogra> Amaranth, i know, i was one of them *g*
<GNULinuxer> ogra> I got the idea ... thanks
<ogra> GNULinuxer, we have no personalized packages in ubuntu, even if people have personal favorites they care about, the most stuff is teamwork here
<GNULinuxer> ogra> true
<ogra> only exception are packages that are nonexistent in debian _and_ ubuntu....
<\sh> Unfrgiven: because of ocaml ... it's compiled against 3.4
<ogra> there you get the full responsibility
<GNULinuxer> ogra> I want to include MediaWiki because it's such an important package ... but it's not pacakged
<GNULinuxer> ogra> is there any guide to installing Breezy on a chrooted dir?
<ogra> GNULinuxer, not in debain either ?
<ogra> GNULinuxer, i dont use a chroot, but there might be one
<GNULinuxer> ogra> no, IMHO
<GNULinuxer> ogra> will building the package on Hoary suffice?
<ogra> GNULinuxer, nope, but building the source package in hoary is fine.... and afterwards building the binary in a breezy pbuilder....
<Amaranth> http://www1.apt-get.org/search.php?query=mediawiki&submit=&arch%5B%5D=i386&arch%5B%5D=all
<GNULinuxer> Amaranth> i checked the official repos
<ogra> oh, so it will be imported in our next apt-get.org import ....
<ogra> GNULinuxer, we regulary import apt-get.org stuff short before release
<GNULinuxer> ogra> fine then ... i will find some other package which doesn not have an debian/ubuntu package
<ogra> GNULinuxer, to tart the journey, try rather to fix existing broken packages, the guys in here can help you, its way easier then starting from scratch
<GNULinuxer> ogra> how can i get a list of broken pacakges?
<ogra> malone will give you a good list of universe package bugs
<ogra> launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone
<ogra> GNULinuxer, btw, Duck is in #ubuntu-devel very often recently, ask him if you can help with mediawiki ;)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: so should i set the build-depends to gcc-3.4?
<GNULinuxer> ogra> fine ... that's a lot
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: congrats on finishing!
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: thanks :)
<ajmitch> now I've really really got to get some ubuntu stuff done
<ajmitch> or else ;)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: so what now? are you working? where at? what role?
<ajmitch> working, doing php coding, same as I have been doing part-time for the last couple of months
<\sh> Unfrgiven: g++-3.4 is better
<ajmitch> build-depends on g++-3.4 wouldn't be enough, but also something in debian/rules for setting CC & CXX?
<\sh> ajmitch: it will help because g++-3.4 will be the default one..(only one on the buildd pbuilder chroot)
<ajmitch> but build-essential ought to pull in 4.0
<\sh> ajmitch: the biggest problem is, that ocaml won't compile with gcc/g++-4.X and this bug is already filed at upstream
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ok will do
<\sh> Unfrgiven: try it ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: what else of the things that I was down for, have you uploaded?
<ajmitch> \sh: I'm sorry for being away for the last week, with exams :)
<\sh> ajmitch: no problem :) i just did the packages I removed your name ;) (sorry for that again)
<ajmitch> \sh: you did socketapi, etc?
<\sh> ajmitch: no
<ajmitch> since that one worked with 3.4, I just didn't get to setting 3.4 in the rules
<\sh> ajmitch: oh i did socketapi
<ajmitch> oh alright :)
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: how exactly does one set 3.4 in rules?
<\sh> ajmitch: ad it  was working with gcc/g++-4
<ajmitch> \sh: ok, I didn't see a patch for that one iirc?
<ogra> Unfrgiven, you set the CC variable
<ogra> or CXX
<\sh> ajmitch: it's in the debdiff...I had to made an adjustment  in the configure statements
<ajmitch> it worked with an older g++ 4.0 here, and then an update of g++ from cvs caused it to break
<Unfrgiven> a simple "export CC=3.4"?
<\sh> explicitly saying: enable-shared=off and enable-static=off
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: CC=gcc-3.4
<ogra> Unfrgiven, but if your source already searches for g++-3.4 you can ignore it
<doko> ajmitch: fix the sources, if possible
<\sh> ajmitch: socketapi was compiled against this
<\sh> Toolchain package versions: libc6-dev_2.3.5-1ubuntu7 linux-kernel-headers_2.6.11.2-0ubuntu10 gcc-4.0_4.0.0-8ubuntu3 g++-4.0_4.0.0-8ubuntu3 binutils_2.16.1-0ubuntu1 libstdc++6-4.0-dev_4.0.0-8ubuntu3 libstdc++6_4.0.0-8ubuntu3
<\sh> but most strange package is hdf5 :(
<Unfrgiven> \sh: howd u get that info? looks most useful :)
<\sh> it's compiled on amd64/ia64/i386 but not on ppc
<\sh> Unfrgiven: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs
<Unfrgiven> \sh: oh ok... i was hoping that there was an apt-cache option or something :)
<\sh> nono..I'm always checking the buildlogs after I see them on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<Unfrgiven> didn't lamont leave for hp?
<ogra> does that mean he isnt allowed to spend his sparetime with us ?
<ogra> ;)
<Unfrgiven> ogra: i thought that implied that he was leaving ubuntu work altogether
<Unfrgiven> even in his spare time
<ogra> why, its his fun ;)
<Unfrgiven> a pretty stupid assumption on my part now that i think of it :)
<Unfrgiven> ogra: im a bit slow today :)
<\sh> lamont is working for HP? so I can think of having a new kernel with working IRDA drivers for my hp/compaq nc6000?
<ogra> \sh, ask mjg59, we have to supply a HP notebook kernel, since they ship with ubuntu :)
<\sh> ogra: yeah :)
<ogra> so its very likely that everything will work for you ;)
<HiddenWolf> ogra, HP ships ubuntu? oficially?
<\sh> HiddenWolf: no...they're are not allowed...they will ship it with freedos...and put a special ubuntu hp cd with the package
<ogra> HiddenWolf, yes, for some selected notebooks, outside of USA.... and not preinstalled
<HiddenWolf> which is it? :P
<ogra> \sh, i doubt it will be a special CD
<\sh> ogra: at least with hp kernel on it...so it will be special ;) or call it breezy badger
<ogra> HiddenWolf, read carefully ;) we both said the same
<HiddenWolf> "not allowed"  by their contract with microsoft? by us anti-encryption laws?
<ogra> HiddenWolf, US is not in discussion
<Treenaks> HiddenWolf: Not allowed by MS contracts, afaik
<\sh> HiddenWolf: "contract with MS"
<ogra> only the rst of the world :)
<ogra> rest even
<HiddenWolf> ogra, rest of the world is plenty. :)
* HiddenWolf wonders if they'll ship some volume
<jamessan> away work
<jamessan> bah
<\sh> back
<\sh> hmmm...does anybody has problems with Xorg? I don't mean the xkb issues, i mean that you can't type anything anymore
<torkel> \sh: I had when I tried 2.6.12, but switching back to 2.6.10 it worked
<\sh> torkel: using kde here
<\sh> I'm trying gnome just now
<torkel> \sh: I meant the kernel :-)
<Unfrgiven> goodnight all...
<\sh> somebody know where danielN is?
<ivoks> nope
<jamessan|work> \sh: I built that package for you the other day.  what would you like to see?
<\sh> jamessan|work, u mean this hdf5?
<jamessan|work> yeah
<\sh> jamessan|work, there should be an error in the end .. some .la file is a wrong .la file or something like this
<jamessan|work> I don't recall seeing an error, but the log is up at http://jamessan.com/~jamessan/hdf5.build
<jamessan|work> beware, it's long
<\sh> jamessan|work, doesn't matter download right now :)
<\sh> hmmm
<Duck_work> coin
<\sh> jamessan, thx man :) so it can be a buildd error
<ogra> GNULinuxer, may i introduce you to Duck (mediawiki packager)
<GNULinuxer> Hello Duck_work
<Duck_work> coin GNULinuxer
<Duck_work> (unofficial packager at the moment)
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: i'm Debian member, not a Ubuntu one, but if you need help, i'll try to find some time for it
<\sh> there is a problem with mediawiki?
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> I am interested in becoming an Ubuntu maintainer, member, MOTU ... how should I start?
<\sh> not with mediawiki ;)
<ogra> \sh, why not
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> I will be more than happy
<Duck_work> i'd like ot have mediawiki in Debian but have not enough time for full maintainance, i'd like to find someone motivated, possibly with comaintainership
<ogra> \sh, if even the upstream packager likes to help :)
<\sh> ogra, because there is no real structure for webapps right now, and the discussions on debian webapps is really *stupid*
<\sh> ogra, well, I would like to see a "real solution" for all webapps firwst
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> I'll be privileged if you give me the chance
<\sh> ogra, u don't read my blog, right? ,-)
<ogra> \sh, we can pass debian here and have mediawiki in ubreezy... later it can flow into debian
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: i can do the Debian sponsoring, and you could then focus on Ubuntu part
<\sh> ogra, this is not the problem
<\sh> ogra, the package itself is easy
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> that would be great
<ogra> \sh, nope, but its unlikely thet this gets solved before upstream freeze
<\sh> ogra, the structure behind it, installation of more then 1 mediawiki per host blabla
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> do you know Manoj Srivastav ?
<\sh> ogra, yepp...
<ogra> \sh, yes, but time is short
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra, then there should be the most easiest method ever: tar
<Duck_work> \sh: the package is not that easy, and happily the BIG changes in 1.4 are done so that no scripts are needed to unsure correct migration
<ogra> \sh, tar is only a base for .deb ;)
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: not really, everyone in Debian know his name
<\sh> Duck_work, how do u setup vhosts for mediawiki? specialized php.ini stuff like that for mediawiki? ,-)
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> ah
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> so how can I start?
<Duck_work> \sh: that's not done, and that's why that is not so easy, but is working and clean 1-host would be a good start
<Duck_work> for the record : "coin" means "quack" in french
<\sh> Duck_work, so for private machines it's  ok (one host) but for ISPs and ASPs (multi-host/vhost) not?
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: my base pkg is doing the base stuff, and math support seems to work not so bad, see wiki.hurdfr.org
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: it is already CDBS-ized, of course
<Duck_work> and new pear stuff is packaged too
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: the fast is php4 and php5 needs to use different deps because of template engine
<Duck_work> fact
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> yeah ... that's true
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: so you could first have a look, understand it, improve what you can, and have a look at thuis issue
<Duck_work> i guess php5 is in Ubuntu, am i right ?
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> no
<Duck_work> ho
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> it's not there
<lamont> Unfrgiven: still working on ubuntu, just not 24x7 like before...
<Duck_work> \sh: how is it solved in other webapps ?
<\sh> Duck_work, there is no solution for debian right now
<\sh> Duck_work, the only "known" solution I know is the idea from Gentoo...and even this is really shitty implementation
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: i don't remember what is missing or to improve, it was wuite fast packaging because HurdFr needed it, so the first task would be to create a todolist i guess
<lamont> \sh, ogra: mjg59 has an nc6000, afaik
<\sh> (but this implementation works in limits)
<Duck_work> \sh: people could use chrooting ;-)
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> fine ...
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: is there a new upstream release ?
<\sh> Duck_work, and there r other pitfalls to think about
<ogra> lamont, is there any laptop mjg59 ha not at his home ? *g*
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> 1.4.5 was released on 3rd June
<Duck_work> \sh: i'm not very experimented in webapps packaging, so please give us advice whenever possible
<\sh> Duck_work, we had this discussion about serendipity weblog system :)
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> it's a sec and bugfix release
<Duck_work> weblogs sux
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: so an easy work for you
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> i suppose so
<lamont> ogra: I'm sure there are some that have not been graced by his presence yet... but it's getting harder to find such an animal.
<\sh> Duck_work, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/32-Packaging-Webapplications.html this was a followup article on Isotopps (Kristian Koehntopp) article about packaging webapplications in debian/suse/redhat
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> so what do I do? create a package for Ubuntu?
<ogra> hehe
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: you should package missing PEAR deps first, the one also present in my repo
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: the problem is i can review your work, but have no Ubuntu box to test
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> i see
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: php4-gettext, php4-types, and php4-html-template-phptal
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: it is really easy
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: and probably uploading them directly into Ubuntu should work
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> so these aren't in the ubuntu repos already?
<Duck_work> ogra: is there a way to get access to an Ubuntu work box ?
<Duck_work> GNULinuxer: i don't know, they are not in Debian, that's what i know
<ogra> Duck_work, chroot on a spare partition ?
<GNULinuxer> Duck_work> i see
<Duck_work> ogra: are telling me i should be less lazy ;-) ?
<Duck_work> +you
<ogra> somehow, yes *g*
<ups> ogra, triaging on malone isn't quite possible right now?
<ups> can't mark bugs as duplicates
<ogra> ups, i havent triged bugs in malone yet... i only closed fixed ones....
<ogra> ups, file a bug about malone then...
<GNULinuxer> ups> hello Uphaar
<ups> hi GNULinuxer
<GNULinuxer> ups> what happened to MozNet? I have been long out of touch with Robin
<ups> GNULinuxer, no clue, i've been having my own share of problems with my computer, so havent kept in touch much
<ups> GNULinuxer, anyway that is OT here ;)
<GNULinuxer> ups> yep
<ups> ogra, thx, i'm filing one now
<bddebian> Good morning
<mitsuhiko> moin
<\sh> ogra, ping
<ogra> \sh, pong
<\sh> ogra, could you please do me a favor and of course a favour to riddell? please review kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts ;) so we can get it into kubuntu/ubuntu? :) and please, don't kill me ;)
<ogra> \sh, i'll do... after i can touch my laptop again..... its currently at about 80 degree
<tseng> \sh: REVIEW DAY
<\sh> hahaha...
<\sh> tseng, review day is everyday :)
<\sh> i will go home just now, and will take a bunch of to be reviewed packages ;)
* Lathiat coughs bzflag
<ogra> \sh, have a look at glom btw, dholbach wants it included, its gtkmm
<\sh> argl
<\sh> but ok
<\sh> ogra, do u know a tool for gnome which rotates the desktop background?
<tseng> \sh: whiprush has one on his laptop
<\sh> whiprush, ping
* \sh can't watch all the time the same boobs here ;)
<whiprush> pong
<tseng> whiprush: pingles
<whiprush> herro
<\sh> whiprush, tseng told me you have a tool for rotating desktop pictures for gnome?
<\sh> just like a diashow ;)
<whiprush> like, the wallpaper?
<\sh> yepp
<whiprush> oh oh, you mean randomly?
<whiprush> one moment
<\sh> yes
<ogra> \sh, ah, i thought you want it upside down or something
<ogra> like rotate :)
<tseng> haha
<ogra> to see the boobs from the other side :)
<whiprush> http://freshmeat.net/projects/wp_tray/
<whiprush> metallikop built an ubuntu deb but I don't think he's submitted it yet
<\sh> ogra, no this would squeez them ;)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> whiprush, hmmm....
<\sh> whiprush, ask him to put it on MOTUNewPackages
<whiprush> okey
<ogra> \sh, there is also a gnome hack.... google for gnoem hacks
<ogra> gnome indeed
<\sh> ogra, yeah...but this is with cron and stuff...
<\sh> wp_tray looks much more promising for the desktop :)
<\sh> cu later guys..going home :)
<bddebian> Does Firefox have it's own Mozilla source or does it just build on top of Mozilla?
<\sh> re
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> wb \sh
<ivoks> hm... can samba log which file has user accesed?
<ogra> ivoks, sure
<ivoks> ogra: i'm all ears :)
<ogra> ivoks, there are two related logs in /var/log
<ivoks> log.smbd
<ogra> i forgot which one logs it, but its logged in one of them
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> hm.. nice.. VFS modul for samba
<ivoks> audit VFS module
<ivoks> samba rocks! :)
<Riddell> how can I make a binary diff?
<tseng> if you diff the files it just tells you if they differ or not
<elmo> generally speaking, you don't.  if you're talking in the context of debian packaging, you uuencode/uudecode
<Riddell> elmo: but how do I get the diff to uuencode?
<tseng> Riddell: you want to put a file into a diff.gz?
<Riddell> tseng: I want to change some icons, so I want a file in debian/patches which does that
<tseng> yes
<ivoks> meeting today?
<tseng> i put it in debian/
<tseng> so, i uuencode the image, ut it in debian
<tseng> in rules you uudecode it
<tseng> and cp it over the stock one
<Amaranth> that's crap though, there has to be a better way
<Riddell> gets a bit messy
<Amaranth> ivoks: I thought it was tomorrow.
<ivoks> 20.?
<ogra> Riddell, look at my recent tuxmath or tuxtype uploads where i had to add icons
<Riddell> I can see a file 21_default_background_image.diff.uu which is a uuencoded diff, but I don't know how to get that
<Amaranth> oh, it's about 8 hours from now
<Amaranth> err, wait
<Amaranth> no
<ivoks> Amaranth: ?
<ogra> what ?
<Amaranth> 20 hours
<ivoks> 4 :)
<ivoks> 20?
<ogra> ivoks, 6 :)
<ogra> 22:00 UTC
<ivoks> lol, i was closer :)
<Amaranth> um
<ivoks> i tough it's 20:00UTC
<Amaranth> what meeting is that? it isn't listed
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMeeting
<ivoks> jesus!
<ivoks> i love ubuntu1!!!!!
<Amaranth> so the topic in #ubuntu-meeting is generally worthless?
<ivoks> it's very nice how gnome clock applet cooperates with evolution's calendar
<ogra> Amaranth, i havent set it.... probably dholbach knows why its wrong
<Amaranth> ivoks: since GNOME 2.8 or so, yeah
<ivoks> Amaranth: yeah.. great stuff
<ivoks> we should create webdav calendar
<ivoks> so it could be automaticly synced
<ivoks> i could do that :)
<ogra> Amaranth, it isnt wrong...
<ogra> Amaranth, the MOTUMeeting isnt even there
<Amaranth> that's what i mean
<Amaranth> i was using #ubuntu-meeting's topic to find out what meetings were coming up and when, for that it's appearently generally worthless
<Amaranth> 3 or so meeting have happened recently that weren't on there or had the wrong day/time :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ogra: meeting is here? :)
<ivoks> oh, good to know, i would miss a room at 22:00 and end up searching you all over the building :)
<Amaranth> it's here?
<Amaranth> err
<ogra> nope
<ogra> #ubuntu-meeting, as all meetings are
<ivoks> hm, ok
<\sh> ah today is motu meeting..I just lost my timeschedule
<dholbach> ogra, Amaranth: it's been a while since i've been in #ubuntu-meeting
<ogra> \sh, we are all lost without dholbach here
<dholbach> as i am in my thesis ;)
<dholbach> so we share the pain
<\sh> ogra, why?
<ogra> \sh, because he cares for all our calendars
<ogra> \sh, ...and cares to remind everyone
<\sh> ogra, hmmm...dholbach: the work of a manager is to delegate work ,-)
<\sh> and NO i don't have a clue ;)
* \sh is just a bloody operational staff ;)
<ogra> \sh, only if you have someone to take the blame.... and nobody rocks the casbah as hard as daniel wrt calendars, lists, reminders etc
<mfgalizi> I would like a package added to Ubuntu.  I'm trying to go through that Motu page and for the life of me, I cannot figure out howto submit it (I feel like a fool).  Can someone please enlighten me or point me to a doc explaining how to do so?  TIA
<\sh> ogra, so, dholbach is our manager ;) he has to take the blame, even when you made the mistake ;) see helmut  ;-)
<dholbach> ogra: the only thing that looks pretty atm is the calendar/plan for my thesis :)
<\sh> grmpf...what was the moinmoin markup for sourcecode?
<dholbach> mfgalizi: you have to add it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<Nafallo> we should have a meeting calendar to import into evo :-)
<\sh> Nafallo, the CAL format is working :)
<dholbach> Nafallo: we do
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> mfgalizi, if it already exists as debian package, put it on UniverseCandidates
<dholbach> Nafallo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<\sh> http://www3.telus.net/robitaille/ubuntu.ics
<ivoks> ics don't update automaticlly, right?
<ogra> mfgalizi, err s/already/not yet/
<dholbach> mfgalizi: oh sorry, i misread
<dholbach> mfgalizi: ogra is right
<dholbach> ivoks: unfortunately not
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> we should create something that does
<dholbach> subscribing to the calendar page is goood :)
<ivoks> based on ics
<ogra> dholbach, from evolution ?
<mfgalizi> it does not (requires xorg).  This is why I'm feeling foolish.  I dont understand how I add the package?  Edit the page?
<dholbach> ogra: no, the wikipage
<ogra> dholbach, meh
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> my evolution crashes when i try to create calendar on web
<ogra> mfgalizi, just edit the UniverseCandidates page and add t as a table entry
<ogra> it even
<mfgalizi> OK, which requires me to log in.  Cannot create an account (again, feeling so silly, appologize for these questions)
<ogra> mfgalizi, we have it as breezy goal to make adding programs easier...
<Nafallo> yay! it has meetings. I should update darkelf when ogra's xorg hits the archive.
* ogra still hopes he didnt break it just harder
<dholbach> mfgalizi: dont you have an account on the ubuntu pages yet?
<Nafallo> aha!
<Nafallo> the meeting starts at midnight tomorrow and I had to scroll
* Nafallo looks foolish :-P
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> I'm feeling hot
<\sh> (but not horny)
<ivoks> community meeting at 12:00 UTC?
<mfgalizi> nope; but I'll start there
<\sh> yepp
<Amaranth> \sh: You're not, don't worry.
<ivoks> that's strange, it's usually at middnight :)
<ivoks> omg
<ivoks> i don't see terminal window
<ivoks> lol
<dholbach> i'll be back later
<dholbach> see you
<Nafallo> dholbach: see you :-)
<Nafallo> (@midnight or so) :-)
<dholbach> yeah
<\sh> mhmm
<\sh> ogra, do u think it's a good idea to file "review bugs" in malone?
<ogra> \sh, nope
<ivoks> hm... very strange
<ivoks> bug like no bug ever :)
<ogra> \sh, lets rather ahswsle elmo a bit to get a RT for MOTU
<ogra> hassle even
<ivoks> i saw my windows in taskbar, but non on desktop
<ivoks> no, they weren't minimised :)
<Nafallo> ogra: I start wondering if I really wan
<Nafallo> ogra: I start wondering if I really want to use your X-fix ;-)
<ogra> wan ?
<Nafallo> ogra: girlfriends keyboard :-P.
<ogra> heh, it probably enables you to type whole sentences ;)
<ivoks> enter and ' are too close :)
<ogra> :)
<Nafallo> ivoks: indeed ;-)
* Nafallo want's his laptop again _soonish_ ;-)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: what X-fix?
<ivoks> well... time to check my books again :(
<Nafallo> Amaranth: xkb
<ivoks> exam is in 3 days :(
<Amaranth> Nafallo: There is a fix?
<ivoks> see you at midnight ;)
<Nafallo> Amaranth: i.e. xorg -31, still building.
<Nafallo> ivoks: see you :-)
<Amaranth> Nafallo: Last I heard you had to revert a revert of a patch.
<Amaranth> Nafallo: ah
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> we have to setup gnome and kde to use at least the same mountpoints for usbdevices
<mfgalizi> If I have already made packages for something I want added, can I mention that anywhere on the universe candidates (will it even make a difference)
<\sh> mfgalizi, u checked if there's an ITP at bugs.debian.org/wnpp?
<ogra> \sh, shouldnt that be handled underneath ?
<siretart> re
<siretart> RT for MOTU! seconded! :)
<mfgalizi> \sh, it is not mentioned there.
<\sh> ogra, well, for me, it should be checked already, and the maintainer (or to be maintainer) should be informed, that we want it in ubuntu universe..so he can work as well on ubuntu packages...and it's easier for us to recruite ;-)
<\sh> mfgalizi, right...that's the reason why we have a meeting this night :)
<ogra> \sh, about which package are we talking here ?
<ogra> \sh, kde doesnt use hal ?
<\sh> ogra, who say that?
<ogra> \sh, it would be silly to use something else
<ogra> \sh, as well as pmount
<mfgalizi> \sh, oh, ok.  well, I shall leave it blank, and edit (if necessasary) after the meeting.
<\sh> ogra, on hoary it was working , right now, kde is not able to see usb stuff, but as I understand riddel, that  kde right now has problems with hal
<\sh> mfgalizi, which packages are you refering to?
<ogra> \sh, so lets solve them...
<ogra> \sh, since hal is the base for everything in ubuntu desktop world
<\sh> ogra, yepp, but kde was mounting e.g. my usb hd with 2 parts as /dev/sda1 -> /media/sda1 and /dev/sda2 -> /media/sda2
<ogra> \sh, so you can use all the backends
<ogra> uhh, ugly
<\sh> and gnome is mount /dev/sda1 -> /media/usbstick ,->
<\sh> and /dev/sda2 -> /meda/usbstick-1
<ogra> hmm...port g-v-m ?
<\sh> thats much more ugly ,-)
<ogra> huh ?
<\sh> cause it's a harddrive ;)
<mfgalizi> \sh, libxvmcw, which is listed under UniverseCandidates now.  I just figured that I should mention I made packages for it already.
<ogra> how that ?
<\sh> libxvmcw...what purpose?
<ogra> \sh, my mother only sees a usb stick plugged into her imac.... why should it say its a harddisk ?
<\sh> ogra, but I see my hardrive via usb cable plugged in ;)
<\sh> ogra, and I never saw a usbstick with 81G + 82G
<ogra> \sh, then this needs fixage, but still, i want a usb stick to show up as such
<\sh> ogra, agreed, but you can determine the diff between hd and stick
<ogra> as i want my camera show up as camera....
<\sh> ogra, don't change the topic ;)
<ogra> sure... hal has all the info for you
<\sh> ogra, but didn't see that /dev/sda1 is formatted with ntfs
<\sh> and gnome it's trying to automount, but can't get it right
<ogra> \sh, did you talk to pitti about that ?
<\sh> ogra, no i just saw it now
<ogra> \sh, tell it to him...
<\sh> ogra, since my kde is not working anymore (wheres your patch) i'm using gnome
<siretart> mfgalizi: isn't there some work to get libxvmcw into debian? I remember an email on debian-mentors...
<ogra> just teach KDE to use X Keyborad right.... thats the drawback if you write your own implementation for everything ;)
<Nafallo> *sigh*
<\sh> ogra, well..that what i was thinking the first way
<\sh> ogra, but then I removed the kxkb session
<Nafallo> xorg isn't on archive.ubuntu.com
* ogra was astonished that the transparent menu and drop shadow crack didnt break more in KDE
<Nafallo> and seems not built on amd64 :-P
<mfgalizi> siretart, I sent that message.  It cannot be included because it depends on a libxvmcw.so.  Build depends always fail
<ogra> Nafallo, give it time
<ogra> Nafallo, i testbuilt it on amd64... so it should work
<Nafallo> ogra: I have ;-). and I know I'll have to give it more of that :-).
<ogra> yeps
<\sh> mfgalizi, i don't understand, you packaged  libxvmcw and it depends on  libxvmcw?
<siretart> mfgalizi: err, I'm a bit confused: how would it build in ubuntu then?
<mfgalizi> doh, I meant libxvmc
<mfgalizi> Debian does not have a package that contains libxvmc.so.*, which the wrapper needs (it dlopens the four different xvmc implementations).
<siretart> mfgalizi: and does ubuntu has a package?
<mfgalizi> siretart, yes: libxvmc
<\sh> ogra, what should I do with DanielN?
<mfgalizi> sorry, libxvmc1
<ogra> \sh, drink a beer ?
<ogra> \sh, wrt ?
<siretart> mfgalizi: aah, now I understand. this libxvmc.so is part of xorg, and debian has still xfree. did I get it right?
<\sh> ogra, well, I don't know where he is right, and he has to do some things to get his "motu" status next week...but he didn't show up :(
<ogra> you may move him over to me if you dont know what to do
<mfgalizi> siretart, bang on.  I guess that would have made sense for me to say
<bddebian> Yeah.. :-)
<\sh> ogra, well, if he would be here, I know what to do...but suddenly he didn't show up anymore
<ogra> \sh, he's probably busy
<bddebian> Just wait until I get my StinkPad, then look out! :)
<\sh> ogra, hmmm...I'll wait
<\sh> hi littlepaul
<littlepaul> hi \sh
<littlepaul> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/wiki/motu:chatlog_mit_daniel_holbach_in_form_eines_interviews
<siretart> :)
<littlepaul> siretart, jupp
<littlepaul> siretart, you did a good job with youre answers
<ogra> littlepaul, you should distingush a bit between Q and A in the "Weitere Fakten?" part
<littlepaul> ogra, i'll check
<ogra> :)
<ogra> littlepaul, seen that ? http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/artikel/826/54772/
<littlepaul> sure
<ogra> totally wrong, but very positive :)
<ogra> there are not 20% truth in it.... very sad for such a paper
<littlepaul> we allready talked about this article
<littlepaul> \sh, ogra my question concers the part Gibt es weitere Schnittstellen zwischen Debian Ubuntu?
<\sh> ogra, to get dholbachs glom into breezy, he must fix it
<ogra> \sh, tell it to him in an hour or two...
<\sh> I write in the wiki :)
<Nafallo> hehe
<GNULinuxer> how can I instruct pbuilder to build in a Breezy chroot?
<Nafallo> GNULinuxer: wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Nafallo> :-)
* bddebian needs to start reading
<\sh> ogra, your turn fuer kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts  ;)
<mitsuhiko> ogra: The article is funny. The editor of Addison and Weslay wrote me that they meant the Ubuntu Guide by elyps
<ogra> i thought they meant this boxed thingie thats not from canonical... you can buy it at linuxland i think
<bddebian> Is the CoC on the wiki page, the one for MOTU's or is there a seperate one for the MOTU process?
<tseng> there is only one
<Nafallo> neo! :-)
* Nafallo blames impulse ;-)
<bddebian> tseng: Was that response to me?
<littlepaul> tseng, more details? ;-)
<tseng> bddebian: yes?
<tseng> littlepaul: huh?
<bddebian> tseng: OK, thanks
<littlepaul> i meant is there a more detailed answer?
<tseng> there is only one Code of Conduct for everyone
<tseng> im not sure how to be more detailed
<littlepaul> ok
<uniq> what's the versioning policy when a package is versioned 0.4.2-1 upstream. (not in debian) Do we want to 'downgrade' to 0.4.2-0ubuntu1 or make it 0.4.2-1ubuntu1?
<tseng> er
<tseng> they actually call it foo-0.4.2-1.tar.gz
<tseng> >
<ogra> tseng, you could say that its on the wiki.... written in lack on some shady white
<uniq> it's the debian dir included with upstream.
<ogra> black even
<uniq> with/in.
<tseng> oh
<tseng> thats a bit different
<tseng> is it distributed in debian from that?
<tseng> as a native package
<uniq> no.
<tseng> well lets keep the debian package as the base then
<tseng> if thats sane
<ogra> yep
<ogra> uniq, 0.4.2-1ubuntu1 is right, since its the same package....
<uniq> i thought so. thanks.
<tseng> ogra: if -1 isnt in debian?
<Riddell> ogra: the problem is that one day it might get uploaded to debian and the real 0.4.2-1 may have changes in that the upstream 0.4.2-1 doesn't
<ogra> uniq, and you add the ubuntu1 only if you made ubuntu specific changes
<bddebian> Well it mentions SABDFL but doesn't say what that is??
<uniq> tseng: it's not in debian at all.. as far as packages.debian.org knows.
<uniq> ogra: i did.
<ogra> Riddell, so we'll get them with 0.4.2-2
<bddebian> Or should I know what SABDFL is, if I had a brain?
<tseng> bddebian: mark shuttleworth
<Riddell> ogra: that's inelegant, there might never be a 0.4.2-2
<ogra> bddebian, sure you should know... even my mother knows that ;-P
<bddebian> Hmm, strange acronym for Mark Shuttleworth
<tseng> not really
<tseng> he stole it from python
<ogra> Riddell, there might also be no package in debian
<Riddell> ogra: in which case it doesn't matter either way :)
<bddebian> ogra: Well I told you all early on that I was stupid.. :-)
<ogra> s/be no/never be a/
<ogra> bddebian, only because i told her ;)
<uniq> riddell: if it's uploaded to universe with *ubuntu* versioning it won't be synced automaticaly anyway, would it?
<Riddell> uniq: you'll get a report in bugzilla saying "you need to merge these changes"
<uniq> k.
<bddebian> So that still doesn't tell what the acronym actually stands for..
<tseng> self-appointed benevolent dicator for life
<Riddell> uniq: well I think my way is best but do it however you wish
<tseng> we should put that somewhere
<tseng> so people stop asking :(
<uniq> riddell: i agree. and i'm changing it now.
<bddebian> tseng: Ahhhh
<ogra> Riddell, i just rely on upstream to be honest and switch to -2 if he made changes....with this assumption you should have the same package, but youre right,  never know....
<bddebian> Where is the MOTU process wiki stuff at?
<ogra> bddebian, its all a aubset of the MOTU page
<ogra> a subset
<bddebian> ogra: Which is where?
* bddebian feels dumb again
<ogra> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<bddebian> Ahhh
<tseng> its searchable
<tseng> besides being in the topic
<bddebian> How come MOTU isn't linked off of wiki.ubuntu.com?
<bddebian> Or did I just miss it?
<tseng> we cant link every page from the front
<bddebian> Why the hell not? :-)
<bddebian> I am kidding btw
<bddebian> OK, am I blind again?  The page mentions the MOTURecruitment page linked below..  but I don't see a link to MOTUREcruitment??
<tseng> why cant you just put it in the address bar then
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> where are all the links gone ?
<tseng> probably broken in the transition
<bddebian> tseng: I'm not trying to be a pain, just trying to inform you folks that it's missing
<ogra> bddebian, now its there... thanks
<bddebian> Wow, that's a long list of "Needs to show up again".. :-)
<ogra> ouch... why doesnt this new wiki respect the old links anymore.... ther MOTUTeams packe is totally broken
<ogra> page
<Amaranth> MOTUFoo links just Foo
<bddebian> MOFO?
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> Amaranth, yeps, so nearly only the teams that dont exist at all have links... funny
* Amaranth is starting to think this RAM is junk
<Amaranth> i traded 512MB of pc100 ram for 512MB of pc133 ram
<Amaranth> weird things happening
<bddebian> So, I add my name to a list and I'm an MOTU?? ;-P
<tseng> no
<Amaranth> but it also might have been the 300 packages upgraded
<bddebian> tseng: I'm joking again..
* bddebian gets the feeling that he has pissed tseng off somehow
<tseng> you arent funny :)
<Amaranth> so when/where is the meeting?
<tseng> #ubuntu-meeting/2200utc
<bddebian> tseng: Well, that's nothing new.  You must not be from #d-d :-)
<tseng> nope.
<Amaranth> anyone else getting "(firefox-bin:13940): Gdk-WARNING **: gdk_property_get(): length value has wrapped in calculation (did you pass G_MAXLONG?)"?
<ogra> hmm
* ogra wonders what is recent on this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
<Amaranth> *groan*
<Amaranth> I can't load _ANY_ gtk apps
<ogra> Amaranth, doomed to kde ?
<Amaranth> eek
<Amaranth> my panel just died
<tseng> ogra: daniel had me look at that forever ago
<Amaranth> and died again
<Amaranth> and so on
<tseng> ogra: alot of it worked on x86 as i went over it
<Amaranth> this is kinda funny, really
<ogra> tseng, i'm quite sure its a hoary page
<tseng> ogra: i dont have the patience for it that he does to go over hundreds of packages
<tseng> yeah it was definately mid-hoary
<Amaranth> everything is bouncing around as the windows resize when the panel dies/comes back
<ogra> so we could clean it... i'll talk to him later
<chillywilly> bddebian: behave yourself
<bddebian> chillywilly: Why? :-)
<chillywilly> because I said so
* chillywilly just installed Ubuntu on this penguin computing beast of a server
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Not the Powerbook? ;-P
<jamessan|work> I just recently installed Ubuntu on my powerbook.  I miss wireless  :(
<bddebian> So how do I create a new login on the wiki?  Is it me again?
<chillywilly> bddebian: uh, no it's a 3U server from penguin computing
<bddebian> chillywilly: :-)
<chillywilly> I have 2 of them now with Ubuntu on them
<chillywilly> dual althlon 264's w/ 2GB RAM
<chillywilly> 246's
<chillywilly> 64Bit
<chillywilly> opteron's rather
<bddebian> chillywilly: Well I have a Dell laptop with Ubuntu that I was supposed to send to ajmitch and I am getting another Stinkpad to put Ubuntu on.. :)
<siretart> ogra: I'm working with a friend on a small project to faciliate the reviewing for facilating reviewing for us MOTUs. Are you aware of some other similar projects?
<chillywilly> you're still in the sending people free hardware business ;)
<siretart> ogra: the very first scetches can be viewed here: http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool/
<bddebian> chillywilly: Aye
<siretart> just to show the idea what I have in mind
<chillywilly> bddebian: hook a brother up...
<chillywilly> :)
<ogra> siretart, COOL !!!
<bddebian> chillywilly: What do you want now? :-)
<siretart> \sh: yes, this is a part of the idea I told you some weeks ago..
<ogra> siretart, dont stop :)
<chillywilly> bddebian: another laptop :)
<tseng> free hardware?
<bddebian> chillywilly: Another OldWorld Powerbook? :-)
<chillywilly> bddebian: erm, no :)
<bddebian> tseng: Not for you, you don't love me.. ;-)
<siretart> ogra: I would like review-tool also to build the package, so we can have a look at the buildlog
<\sh> siretart, u mean my thoughts on motumeeting?
<ogra> siretart, what langis this ?
<jamessan|work> siretart: that is pretty nice
<chillywilly> man, I really need to make myself write some documentation
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<tseng> bddebian: i just answer your questions bluntly, most people get this
<siretart> ogra: we want to write it in pyhton
<ogra> siretart, yay
<bddebian> tseng: Man, I'm kidding again..  Sorry, I'll shut up now.
<siretart> \sh: err, I'm not quite sure, but probalby ;)
<\sh> siretart, u just have a new friend :)
<chillywilly> python rocks my socks
<ogra> siretart, who is "we" ?
<siretart> ogra: I'm not quite sure about the backend. either somethin based on mini-dinstall, or completly new. have to take a closer look to mini-dinstall
<siretart> ogra: his name is Stefan Potyra, not affiliated to ubuntu (yet ;)
<siretart> he's a collegue of me at university
<ogra> siretart, and you didnt make him a MOTU yet ? shame on you !
<ogra> :)
<siretart> well, we just begun it this afternoon with designing an ER schema: http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool/ER.png
<siretart> ogra: he promised me to contribute packages ;)
<ogra> *G* just kidding ;)
<siretart> hehe
<bddebian> OK, so how do I really set up a new user on the wiki??
<siretart> bddebian: I think you need to create an account in the launchpad
<siretart> and use that one
<\sh> yeah
<ajmitch> MOTU meeting today, right?
<tseng> 2200utc
<tseng> 2.5 hours
<ajmitch> alright
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm sorry I'm such a loser.. :-(
<bddebian> siretart: Where/what is the launchpad?
<Treenaks> bddebian: http://launchpad.ubuntu.com/ says it all
<bddebian> Thx
<siretart> bddebian: see topic: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/
<bddebian> Aye, I just caught that.. After asking of course.. :-(
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<bddebian> aaaarrrrrggggghhhh
<siretart> huh? it was just a friendly greeting ;)
<bddebian> Trying to log in to wiki: "Passwords don't match" from launchpad
<ajmitch> oops :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Are you even still interested in the Dell I have?
<ajmitch> bddebian: sure, why not?
<ajmitch> hi jeff
<jbailey> heya
<siretart> does anyone use pbuilder hooks? I'd like to use the dpkg-i hook from the pbuilder examples/ dir. The problem is that it 'dpkg -i' the binary, but doesn't resolve dependencies. so I think I need to write another hook to satisfy the dependencies.
<siretart> now my question: is it somehow possible to extract the dependencies of a given .deb (or set of .debs) so that I can install them via apt-get?
<jbailey> siretart: apt-ftparchive might give your what you want in the Packages file.
<siretart> jbailey: hm. I think that information could me more easily retrieved with dpkg-deb -I <foo>.dpkg and grepping
<siretart> jbailey: but then I still would need some kind of parser, because of alternative and versioned dependencies
<jbailey> siretart: I was more thinking that you could make an apt-ftparchive, point to your stuff, and another archive and just let apt-get handle it.
<siretart> jbailey: aah, and letting apt-get do the job? this sounds sane. will look into it. thanks to the suggestion!
<jamessan> jbailey: nudge  ;)
<jbailey> jamessan: Stalker.
<jbailey> =)
* jamessan hides his "jbaily surveilance" camera
<jbailey> Bah, misspelling my nick might not trigger a highlight, but YOU STILL CANNOT HIDE!!!
<jbailey> mwahahahahah
<siretart> lol
<TMM> damn, you actually READ what's not highlighted? I never do that
<TMM> :P
<TMM> ok, I just killed a server somewhere... I was supposed to install a VPN server on it, well... it IS secure now
<TMM> too bad I've never seen the thing, and I can't go over there
<TMM> someone is going to be very pissed tommorow
<Nafallo> TMM: how could you answer something you don't see? ;-)
<TMM> I didn't
<Nafallo> or read rather :-)
<TMM> It's all in your head
<Nafallo> hehe
<\sh> damn
<TMM> you are just a figment of the line noise on my crappy cable connection
<TMM> :P
<\sh> *rotfl*
<\sh> I just got a shock right now
<\sh> i just read the first time the last sentence of the german translation of the apt-get --help text
<\sh> "Dieses APT hat Super-Kuh-Krfte."
<\sh> Super Cow Strength
<siretart> \sh: try 'apt-get moo' ;)
<\sh> oh my
<\sh> whats missing is a ascii flipper
<siretart> hehe
<Nafallo> Denna APT har Speciella Ko-Krafter. :-)
<\sh> i never read it before
<\sh> siretart, u have time?
<siretart> \sh: a bit, I'm fighting with debarchiver, but. what is it?
<\sh> I have a strange lintian error and I can't see where it comes from...everything looks ok in the package
<siretart> url?
<TMM> 'this apt has super cow powers' it is in english
<bddebian> AYe
<\sh> archive.linux-server.org/breezy.php (but give me 3 mins)
<siretart> ok
<bddebian> That cracked me up the first time I saw it
<siretart>                        Dieses APT hat Super-Kuh-Krfte.
<\sh> siretart, now ;) it's njam
<siretart> downloading
<siretart> \sh: you mean this one: W: njam: non-standard-dir-perm usr/share/ 0655 != 0755
<\sh> yepp
<siretart> \sh: try commenting out line 80 ;)
<siretart> in debian/rules, that is
<\sh> thx
<bddebian> OK, I'm in the Wiki, now what? :-)
<\sh> siretart, sometimes I'm blind :)
<siretart> \sh: no problem. same here :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: start filling things in
<bddebian> ajmitch: ??
<bddebian> Holy crap, I see the CXX list is Loooong :)
<\sh> it's just finishe
<\sh> d
<siretart> \sh: if you have time, could you have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/sfs/1:0.8-0+pre20041016.1-1ubuntu1/
<ajmitch> \sh: hmm, all done? :)
<siretart> on my machine, I only get a warning, but this boomake bails out :(
<siretart> and the most crazy fact is: it ftbfs on every arch but ia64 :/
<\sh> ajmitch, i said just finished ;) where r yours ;-)
<\sh> siretart, i will get the source just now :)
<siretart> \sh: well, the source is quite big, and it takes a loooooong time to compile :(
<siretart> \sh: but thanks!
<\sh> siretart, i have to see the sourcefiles anyways.
<siretart> \sh: ok
<ajmitch> \sh: sitting on my computer, of course :)
<\sh> siretart, well, I don't see the error itself...in arpc/rpctypes this is only warning..so where is this bloody error
<siretart> \sh: exactly. on my machine, it is just an error
<\sh> so it can only be in In function 'void nfs3_exp_disable(u_int32_t, void*)':
<lesliev> Hiya all!
<lesliev> Just busy building my first package, so hold thumbs!
<siretart> lesliev: :)
<lesliev> siretart: saw you put "mkdir -p $(CURDIR)/debian/sopwith/usr/share/pixmaps" into debian/rules for sopwith
<lesliev> .. oh, ok, I see why now
<siretart> :)
<lesliev> for the uudecode
<lesliev> how about that guessing of dependencies! That seems to be the most time consuming part
<\sh> siretart, i don't have a clue...i don't even understand what they're doing there ,-)
<siretart> \sh: you mean with fixing rpcgen, and deanonymizing the anonymous enums?
<lesliev> ah, osrry to break into your conversation ;)
<siretart> what kinda tricky
<\sh> siretart, whatever ;)
<siretart> lesliev: no problem, If you have questions, just ask :)
<lesliev> ok
<siretart> ETA to meeting: 1h
<TMM> heheh! whooo!!! it's a hardware issue ... lol
<TMM> I knew I did everything right
<Nafallo> TMM: ?
<lesliev> what meeting?
<ajmitch> lesliev: MOTU meeting
<ogra> siretart, what about a automatic lintian/linda run in your ool ?
<ogra> tool
<TMM> Nafallo, I killed a server about half an hour ago, I just got word that the thing is flaky, and it's probably not my failt that it won't boot anymore. I upgraded it from some weird woody/sarge hybrid to sarge and updated the kernel
<siretart> ogra: yes, if I get autobuilding done, this should be an easy job
<TMM> Nafallo, not for fun, but because I was supposed to install a VPN on it
<Nafallo> TMM: ahh, oki.
<siretart> ogra: right know, I think Stefan and I should work to get a first version without autobulding and automated checking done. even this should be better than via wiki
<siretart> what do you think?
<ogra> siretart, in any case :)
<siretart> ogra: do you happen to have a neat project name?
<\sh> somebody spelled my name completly wrong ;)
<doko> bash: what's wrong with it?
* \sh <- Stephan ;) 
<siretart> \sh: I think I will need your help for the autobuilding and auto{lintian,linda} stuff. do you think you could host it?
<\sh> siretart, sure
<ajmitch> siretart: autobuilding ought to be fairly simple
<ogra> siretart, i'll think about a name
<siretart> \sh: great!
<ajmitch> lintian can just be run on the deb or .changes file
<siretart> ajmitch: what would you recommend? dak or mini-dinstall? pbuilder or sbuild?
<ajmitch> mini-dinstall & sbuild, I think
<ajmitch> dak might be a bit too much
<siretart> ok. the combination of both tools, I never really worked with :)
<ajmitch> sbuild is well suited for autobuilding
<ajmitch> :)
<siretart> but I'll look into it
<\sh> ajmitch, well, pbuilder can also be used
<ajmitch> \sh: sure, it can be used..
<siretart> ajmitch: whats the advantage of sbuild over pbuilder here?
<ajmitch> umm..
<ajmitch> there's some docs on setting up a buildd chroot? :)
<ajmitch> I haven't really used sbuild, but others have recommended it
<siretart> ah, ok
<ivoks> hehe i love when web hosting providers suply contact info for their domains... it's easier to get rid of spam :)
<ajmitch> http://people.debian.org/~aba/buildd/cheat.html
<ajmitch> how to setup a buildd with sbuild..
<agile> you guys have any insight as to php5's inclusion into either/or debian or ubuntu?
<ajmitch> well, not sbuild, it seems :)
<ajmitch> agile: yes, the maintainer is working on it :)
<agile> ajmitch, would that be adam conrad?
<agile> ajmitch, btw.. you still involved with gnue these days? :)
<ajmitch> agile: yes it is, and yes I am..
<lesliev> sorry to cut in: I just built a package with dpkg-buildpackage but I didn't have a gpg key yet...
<lesliev> now I have made a key, can I just "gpg -s package.changes" ?
<lesliev> oh, there is no package.changes!
<lesliev> can I run dpkg-buildpackage again?
<lesliev> siretart: Looks like I am finally done. The package seems to install properly and I put in the .desktop stuff too.
<lesliev> What should I send to you?
<siretart> lesliev: if you have some webspace somewhere, upload it there and put a link to that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview
<siretart> for reviewing, I would need the .dsc file, the .diff.gz, and a link to the .orig.tar.gz
<lesliev> ok. But the file I should link the ubuntu page to should be the .deb I'm sure?
<siretart> no, because we cannot review nor upload binary packages
<ogra> lesliev, the .deb is not intresting
<siretart> the source package consists of the three files I mentioned above
<\sh> *yawn*
<lesliev> aha
<siretart> use dpkg-buildpackage -S or debuild -S to create these files
<\sh> finally I could upload just now my very first ubuntu debian package ;)
<bddebian> Ubuntu debian?
<\sh> debian formatted package for ubuntu ;)
<bddebian> ahhh
<siretart> :)
<lesliev> ok: http://icoc.co.za/ubuntu/
<\sh> ogra, sign now kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts ,-) NOW ;-)
<ogra> \sh, dont you have 3 signoffs ?
<ogra> err
<ogra> oh
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra, is motaboy a motu?
<ogra> not yet afaik
<\sh> so i need your signature ;)
<lesliev> Siretart: Ok, I did the -S, now there is a .changes file... Do you want that uploaded too?
<lesliev> ok, done anyway
<siretart> lesliev: the changes file is a control file for the archive software. I just need the .dsc and every file mentioned in that
<TMM> hey, can someone refresh my memory please, what is the name of the userspace bootsplash guy?
<siretart> but including the changes file never hurts. its really small ;)
<TMM> also, I've got some ideas, and solutions :) for a better way to configure laptops, and I've adapted laptop-detect and laptop-mode stuff for it, where/how do I go about to getting this out into the world?
<TMM> I know it's not universe, but I think it's useful
<lesliev> siretart: Ok, done. I have linked to the wiki too. I hope all is in order :-)
<siretart> lesliev: great! I will have a look at it soon
<lesliev> The changes file is also signed now too, yay!
<lesliev> Thanks for all the help
<siretart> youre welcome
<siretart> lesliev: Oh, I didn't notice, is tesseracttrainer a NEW package?
<dholbach> hi
<siretart> hi dholbach
<dholbach> lesliev: could you take tesseracttrainer to MOTUNewPackages instead of MOTUToReview?
<siretart> lesliev: in this case, you have to put it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-28
<lesliev> okey
<ogra> meeting :)
<lesliev> ok, done. Sorry to interrupt the meeting.
<dholbach> don't worry
* tseng hugs dholbach 
* dholbach jumps around tseng happily
<schweeb> is there a meeting now?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> you weren't invited schweeb
<schweeb> oh, fine then
<dholbach> come on
* dholbach pushes tseng away ... tststs
<dholbach> where's the ubuntu love?
<tseng> i love schweeb!
<tseng> we are like brothers
<tseng> making fun of each other
<dholbach> i see :)
<dholbach> UBUNTU LOVE!
<Nafallo> lol
<lesliev> Gotta sleep, sorry to miss out on all the love && believe I wasn't invited either!
<ajf> I created my own repository for testing and such, but when I try to upload one of my deb, tar.gz, dsc, and .changes, It gets pissed and says this:  [dpkg-source output:]  dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.tar'
<dholbach> how did you create the source package?
<ajf> with debuild (it's my own project, so there's no original source file)
<dholbach> with   debuild -S (-sa)  or something?
<ajf> no arguments, let me try that
<dholbach> this should give you the .dsc the .diff.gz (if you have the .orig.tar.gz in place)
<ajf> There is no original tarball
<dholbach> in most cases you should take the upstream tarball (without debian/ modifications) and call it   <software>_<version>.orig.tar.gz
<ajf> Yeah, but that's the thing.. i am the upstream :D
<ajf> it's straight out of my SVN
<dholbach> then   svn export ...  (i presume there's some cvs counterpart ;-))
<tseng> you need to make a release
<dholbach> do    ./autogen.sh && make dist
<tseng> to be the orig.g
<tseng> z
<dholbach> then a tarball and call it <software>_<version>.orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> after that you can do the debian/ modifications
<tseng> my friend got his phpbb hacked
<dholbach> ouch
<tseng> stupid kid, i locked it
<tseng> he lost all his data for now (we have backups
<ajf> I'm new to all this, let me try that
<ajf> how does it handle packages with '-' in the name
<dholbach> withouth problems
<dholbach> epiphany-browser for example
<dholbach> nautilus-cdburner
<dholbach> whatever :)
<ajf> excellent
<ajf> I keep my debian/ directory in SVN
<ajf> is that bad practice?
<dholbach> hmmm
<dholbach> it will mix up the .diff.gz
<dholbach> i keep this stuff separatedly
<ajf> it didn't make one that time :)
<dholbach> :)
<jamessan> keeping the debian/ directory in a VCS isn't a bad idea, as long as it's separate from the actual source
<ajf> well here, tell me if this is bad organization: https://anthracite.aca.oakland.edu/websvn/listing.php?repname=Kerberos%20Ticket%20Manager&path=%2Fdebian%2F&rev=0&sc=0
<schweeb> haha
<schweeb> I was there when that was being coded
<schweeb> except I was drinking, they were coding
<ajf> hush you
<schweeb> that you forgue?
<schweeb> haha
<schweeb> yep
<ajf> tell me why it's broke
<ajf> schweeb:
<schweeb> I can't hit that site
<ajf> @ work?
<schweeb> nope
<schweeb> it's trying to load
<schweeb> but it wont
<ajf> the cert is broken, but that's it
<schweeb> ah there we go
<schweeb> the cert window popped up on another desktop
<ajf> gg.
<dholbach> ajf: if you manage to build the package, you can upload it somewhere and get it reviewed, if you put it on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<ajf> when I try to submit it to my dak, it gives that error when moving it from unchecked
<ajf> dholbach: the app is barely working :)
<ajf> i'd rather not get people comlaining to me quite yet
<dholbach> ah ok :)
<dholbach> if you copy the stuff to a new directory
<schweeb> hah, flav got his own src tree
<schweeb> lol
<dholbach> does   dpkg-source -x bla.dsc   work?
<ajf> schweeb: not really
<ajf> dholbach: nope :( dpkg-source: error: unrecognised file suffix `.tar'
<dholbach> do you have a .tar file?
<dholbach> Depends: libkrb53, libglade2-0 (>= 2.5.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0) doesnt belong in the "source:"-stanza
<dholbach> you can drop the debian/docs-file
<ajf> ah yes
<ajf> what does this do: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<dholbach> it expands the -dev packages you specified in the build-depends to library package names
<ajf> ahh
<dholbach> (those that are actually needed during the build)
<ajf> someone on the intarweb said it's a bug in dpkg 1.13.9, but *shrug* it's only 1 post
<ajf> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-amd64@lists.debian.org/msg09651.html
<dholbach> could you upload those 2-3 files somewhere?
<dholbach> the .tar.gz the .dsc
<ajf> .changes?
<dholbach> i just want to have a look, don't need the .changes
<dholbach> hi mbeattie :)
<ajf> http://spica.admnet.oakland.edu/~forgue/debian
<ajf> I just put everything it generated there
<ajf> dpkg-source: warning: source directory `./kerberos-ticket-manager' is not <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> `kerberos-ticket-manager-0.01'
<ajf> ^^ that's interesting
<dholbach> yeah :)
<ajf> if I name it kerberos-ticket-manager-0.1, it says the same thing
<dholbach> ok, if you do it the way i said (using .orig.tar.gz and moving out the debian/ stuff out of it), you're fine
<ajf> thought I tried that,maybe i screwed it up
<ajf> same error
<ajf> I still get that warning when building it about the source directory is not <source>-<upstreamversion>
<dholbach> hm
<ajf> ah hang on
<ajf> I think I got it
<ajf> @_@
<ajf> the version in the changelog was 0.01 while the directory was 0.1
<ajf> yay for typos
<dholbach> :)
<ajf> and dak accepted it
<dholbach> woohoo! :)
<ajf> sweet. Thanks for your patience :D
<dholbach> anytime
<dholbach> bye everyone
<ajmitch> 
<tseng> hm
<|QuaD-> anyone wanna package something?
<panickedthumb> hey, on behalf of jdong and the backports team, can the MOTU import the latest sid gnubiff package into breezy universe?
<panickedthumb> there has been one major feature release and one major bugfix release since the version there now
<ajmitch> the source package is there, but FTBFS
<ajmitch> broken depends
* schweeb bows his head in defeat
<schweeb> my laptop has gotten the best of me
<schweeb> took me like a day to figure out why sound wasn't working... I thought it was an IRQ problem... it's cause the mono channel was muted @_@
<ajmitch> ouch
<schweeb> now that I have sound working, I just have to wait for mjg59 to get suspend working on SATA laptops
<ajf> IRQ conflicts don't happen anymore
<schweeb> says you 4g00
<schweeb> I have a Dell 8200 that says otherwise
<ajf> how old is that?
<schweeb> 3 yrs
<ajf> chipset?
<ajf> eh, dell hardware was crap
<ajf> (is?)
<schweeb> is
<schweeb> dunno which chipset anymore
<schweeb> it's all ICH stuff
<schweeb> ICH5?
<schweeb> both the parport driver the the snd_intel8x0 driver wanted to use IRQ7 (iirc)
<ajf> that's normal
<schweeb> well, parport hogged it completely
<ajf> gg hardware
<ajf> :D
<schweeb> tseng: wow, I love your mono notes... "Just don't install this"
<siretart> morning
<siretart> Burgundavia: ping
<Burgundavia> here
<siretart> Burgundavia: I dont know If you have seen that yet, I restructed a large part of the MOTUGames page
<Burgundavia> nope
<siretart> Burgundavia: This was with the intention to make helping us easier
<Burgundavia> yes
<siretart> Burgundavia: if you have time, could you have a look at it?
<ivoks> morning
<Burgundavia> am looking right now
<Burgundavia> looks good
<siretart> Burgundavia: Do you know some english equivalent to http://ubuntuusers.de/wiki/spiele:apt
<Burgundavia> no, but jdodson and I had a plan for fridge
<Burgundavia> basically a game of ($timeperiod)
<Burgundavia> to showcase cool games in Ubuntu
<siretart> I really like the website http://ubuntuusers.de/wiki/spiele - but it's german, though
<siretart> Burgundavia: ah, is jdodson on irc?
<siretart> Burgundavia: in MOTUNEWGames, he mentions that he has packaged 2 games. I send him a notice
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I have a broken package of openbubbles that I need to cleanup and submit
<siretart> sound great! :)
<Burgundavia> not going to happen in the next little while, as I am current in job search mode
<siretart> ah. I see.
<siretart> good luck! this clearly has priority
<Burgundavia> yes, as money runs out soon
<Burgundavia> I have been living off savings and doing ubuntu work, but that has a finite limit
<Burgundavia> hmm, going to flood p.u.c
<siretart> Burgundavia: do you have some .desktop files not integrated into ubuntu yet and not listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseGamesWithoutDesktopFile?
<Burgundavia> I can write them, if you want to do the programming side
<Burgundavia> I can probably even convince my brain and inkscape to produce an icon
<siretart> programming side?
<siretart> it just a matter of preparing a new upload..
<Burgundavia> making the package install the desktop file
<Burgundavia> well, apparently, I am very dumb
<siretart> nono, you are not ;)
<Burgundavia> I could not figure out how to get the source package to install it in the correct place
<Burgundavia> I am sure that I am missing something very simple
<siretart> Burgundavia: I will think about writing an tutorial describing this
<Burgundavia> yes, that would be great
<ivoks> ok, template done :) upload :)
<ivoks> siretart: willing to check it out? :)
<siretart> ivoks: yes, but I'm already terribly late, need to get to university now
<siretart> ivoks: give me the url and I'll look and comment later
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/ubuntu-debian.template.txt
<Burgundavia> looks good
<ivoks> thanks
<Burgundavia> for platform, do you also mean the people like MOTUGames?
<Burgundavia> gah, advogato is such a crude tool
<ivoks> Burgundavia: all MOTU teams
<Burgundavia> ok
<ivoks> Burgundavia: this is proposal for all motu teams, as decided last tnight
<ivoks> night
<Burgundavia> the current template looks quite low level platform specific
<ivoks> this is just idea how teams should aproach debian teams
<Burgundavia> yes
<ivoks> explaining them long term objectives
<ivoks> like, creating ubuntu as state of the art gamin platform
<ivoks> short term, like adding game xyz with this changes or something like that..
<Burgundavia> one of my personal goals is for every game to have a .desktop file, if appropriate, for breezy
<Burgundavia> I don't know if I can do it
<ivoks> that's a short term
<ivoks> Burgundavia: with people around you, you can do it
<ivoks> if you are alone, it will be tough
<ivoks> hard
<ivoks> :)
<Burgundavia> shouldn't be that difficlut
<Burgundavia> first get the .desktop files in
<Burgundavia> then start working on icons
<ivoks> right
<ivoks> but don't forget
<ivoks> debian prefere menu over /usr/share/applications/
<Burgundavia> yes, but that is garbage
<ivoks> so that would be something you will have to decide...
<Burgundavia> the freedesktop spec is the future
<ivoks> Burgundavia: i agree, convince debian into it
<ivoks> :)
<Burgundavia> packages should have both until debian jumps to the freedesktop spec
<Burgundavia> I am surprised that nobody has suggested it for etch
<ivoks> Burgundavia: debian invented menu cause there was no solution for menu system
<Burgundavia> maybe a case of not-made-here
<Burgundavia> however, that basically means that almost every application is going to be -ubuntu something for breezy, if we go whole hog on the .desktop files, which we should
<ivoks> that's right
<ivoks> that would be your diff
<Burgundavia> which would truly suck
<ivoks> and debian, when they will convert to freedesktop, they will take your patches
<Burgundavia> I hope that once we start, we can get good traction upstream
<DanielN_> ivoks: ping
<ivoks> yes
<DanielN_> i think i'm in unclearness about the cxx trans still
<DanielN_> just the steps again:
<DanielN_> i do my patching work (e.g renaming) then i create a debdiff between the actual version and the new one, right? after that i put that debdiff into debian/patches, create the patch rules in debian/rules and i made a debdiff again, which i provide in the bug report
<DanielN_> right?
<ivoks> phone
<DanielN_> oki :)
<ivoks> back
<ivoks> DanielN_: no
<ivoks> you are doing wrong
<DanielN_> i'm not doing it right that
<DanielN_> but \sh gave me some hints
<DanielN_> wait
<ivoks> you should do renaming
<ivoks> fix dependcies
<ivoks> etc..
<ivoks> build source (you will get .dsc)
<DanielN_> yep
<ivoks> then you will have package-version-1.dsc and package-version-1ubuntu1.dsc
<ivoks> (for example)
<ivoks> then you do debdiff
<DanielN_> yep
<ivoks> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
<DanielN_> clear :)
<ivoks> that debdiff is patch you send on bugzilla
<ivoks> you don't put it in debian or anywhere in source
<ivoks> that's just diff beetwen your and old version
<ivoks> that's it.
<DanielN_> yeah i know.. but look at \sh's comments here: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
<ivoks> you were mentioned on meeting
<ivoks> yes..
<ivoks> DanielN_: noone know what you mentioned with that patching in your debian/rules
<DanielN_> hrmpf
<ivoks> they tought all your fixes for FTBS are in that patches
<\sh> moins
<ivoks> that's why they said you are missing those patches
<ivoks> \sh: hi
<ivoks> \sh: i uploaded template, care to check it out?
<DanielN_> ivoks: aaah! no it's all clear.. i have patch stuff in debian/rules with shouldn't be there
<DanielN_> :)
<\sh> ivoks just now...right now I have to take care about DanielN_  :)
<ivoks> DanielN_: right :)
<ivoks> \sh: hehe, let's do it together :)
<\sh> DanielN_, good morning, missing motu :)
<ivoks> \sh: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
<DanielN_> \sh: i know i was a bit abwesend
<ivoks> \sh: you confused him :)
<\sh> ivoks, why? the comments are straight and clear :)
<\sh> ok...whats confusing?
<DanielN_> \sh: it's clear now
<DanielN_> :)
<ivoks> \sh: but he tought aqsislibs_c2_patch.diff should be debdiff beetween versions :)
<\sh> ivoks, oh no :(
<DanielN_> yeah.. just missunderstanded that
<ivoks> DanielN_: but other remarks are ok
<\sh> DanielN_, ok...one explanation :) I gave ogra my word to guide you
<DanielN_> \sh: cool
<ivoks> \sh: when you will have time: http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/ubuntu/ubuntu-debian.template.txt
<\sh> DanielN_, ok...I will explain :)
<\sh> DanielN_, first of all, you have upstream source patches, they go into debian/patches/ directory
<siretart> re
<\sh> those patches are fixing  bugs in upstream source
<\sh> those patches have to be applied via debian/rules file
<siretart> ivoks: I looked at your template, I like it. though, I'm not sure if the term "platform" is propriate for every team
<\sh> now, when u do a e.g. debuild -S you generate a new package_version.dsc file
<DanielN_> yep
<\sh> now, comes the debdiff patch, what debian and we need in our bugzilla for the transition
<\sh> you go to the directory, where the original dsc file and the new dsc file is laying
<DanielN_> right
<\sh> debdiff orig_package.dsc new_package.dsc
<DanielN_> jau :)
<\sh> will give you a diff file including debian/* and upstream...but the upstream is normally untouched and you only get the changes between the debian/ dir of the too...so it will show also the "new files" inside the debian/ dir, that means, replaced files, new files, deleted files etc. and after all, the upstream source patch in the debian/patches directory
<DanielN_> if there is one...
<\sh> hi siretart
<\sh> Burgundavia, ping
<siretart> huhu \sh
<\sh> DanielN_, when there is no patch for upstream, you should create one  by yourself, or if you don't need one, don't create a debian/patches dir
<DanielN_> \sh: that's what i ment :)
<DanielN_> thanks
<ivoks> siretart: back :)
<ivoks> siretart: platformX was just sinonim for something that team works on
<\sh> DanielN_, but u created one :)
<DanielN_> \sh: long time ago ;)
<\sh> siretart, http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/24-The-Summer-and-PacMan.html read about this guy in the comments ;)
<\sh> DanielN_, then remove it :)
<\sh> DanielN_, do it, remove it, send the debdiff, make me happy, let me dance around :) I want to see u as our youngest motu ever :)
<\sh> am I right? :)
<DanielN_> \sh: and as the first swiss ubuntu maintainer :)
<DanielN_> the age isn't a point that really counts imho
<\sh> ivoks, what about this as first sentence: We're the Ubuntu MOTU<insert project here> Team and we want to introduce ourselfs. Our members are: X.Y <x.y.email address> (Position in the team)\n labla
<\sh> DanielN_, the age is part of it :) it's part of your story of initiation :) if you become a motu, then it's just like the red indian tradition for young fighters to catch an eagles feather from his nest ;)
<\sh> well, I should change my job and become a writer of poems ;)
<DanielN_> \sh: lol .. you're funny :)
<DanielN_> made my day i think
<DanielN_> sou... fixing aqsis now
<\sh> siretart, can u do me a favour?
<ivoks> \sh: oh, ok, no problem
<siretart> \sh: I'm quite busy right, now, but. what is it?
<\sh> can u have a look over kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts when u have time (or ivoks ;)) I need only one last signature and then I can put into the tree...for kubuntu
<Burgundavia> \sh, here
<\sh> Burgundavia, can u give me the wiki page of the intro dev docs?
<Burgundavia> \sh, hmm, I am not really involved in that
<Burgundavia> \sh, tseng has a better idea
<siretart> \sh: uuuh, I'm not familar with kde stuff at all, but the debian/ dir looks fine
<\sh> siretart, thats all i need the rest is only text :) put your signature there ;)
<siretart> \sh: just on thing for extremly picky mode: your copyright file should state what exactly is licensed under gpl
<siretart> \sh: just putting a file COPYING in the source package doesn't suffice, the gpl would have to be correctly applied
<\sh> siretart, well, everything is under GPL
<siretart> references: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html and http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/12/msg00194.html
<siretart> but with this remark - signed, siretart :)
<siretart> links taken from here: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/sponsorship_checklist.html
<DanielN_> \sh: hope aqsis is ok now!
<\sh> siretart, u mean something like this: Copyright: 2005 Stephan Hermann ?
<\sh> to mention the copyright holder?
<ivoks> i hate macs
<siretart> yes.
<ivoks> osx sucks
<siretart> if reviewing in extremly pedantic mode. otherwise you have my blessing :)
<ivoks> it's worse than windows
<\sh> DanielN_, much better dude :) I will grab it and try to compile it on my laptop and when everything is allright, upload in your name
<siretart> ivoks: I know ppl around here who swear on osx
<ivoks> siretart: well, they didn't try to use it normaly then
<DanielN_> \sh: nice
<ivoks> man, thir implementation of CUPS is... OMG
<ivoks> their samba connection is... WTF?
<ivoks> how come all OSes works great, but those OSX never work good in heterogen enviorment
<\sh> siretart, ok, put the copyright holder (it's me) in the copyright file....the license preamble a can leave just like this...
<siretart> \sh: that should do it well
<\sh> ok...thx :)
<\sh> DanielN_, u see, even I'm learning ;)
<\sh> siretart, put your name and your comments on the page ;)
<\sh> DanielN_, building the package
* siretart notices his review tool on the todo list
<siretart> \sh: done
<JanC> woohoo!
<JanC> xkb fixed  :)
<DanielN_> yep
<DanielN_> nice to type right again :)
<DanielN_> \sh: nice build ?
<\sh> DanielN_, it's build just now...was not on my place right now :(
<\sh> wiki broken?
<siretart> Internal Server Error
<DanielN_> going out for lunch .. see ya later
<terrex> cya
<\sh> DanielN_, did u build it?
<\sh> g++ -g -O2 -o .libs/aqsis aqsis.o  ../render/.libs/libaqsis.so ../libraytrace/.libs/libraytrace.so ../libargparse/.libs/libargparse.so
<\sh> ../render/.libs/libaqsis.so: undefined reference to `Aqsis::CqPoolable<Aqsis::CqLath, 512l>::m_thePool'
<\sh> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<\sh> DanielN_, check https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
<ivoks> ok, i fixed some stuff in template
<\sh> yeah..we should provide one team email address and a gpg key for this address, signed by all members of the team
<ivoks> right
<elmo>  kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts - Konqueror shortcuts for the Ubuntu wiki and bugzilla
<elmo> ... any reason they can't just go into konqueror?
<\sh> elmo, cause it's ubuntu/kubuntu specific
<\sh> and has nothing to do with orig upstream
<elmo> ... so are most of our patches?
<\sh> elmo, the shortcuts etc. presented by kde are common to the community...we can ask upstream to have ubuntu shortcuts included in their next release or kde4
<\sh> sorry, common for kde...
<\sh> or riddell comes up with a better idea?
<ivoks> elmo: i sent you email last night, hope you got it :/
* terrex bye
<ivoks> gnome-art is great app
<DanielN_> \sh: can you say me, which file is buggy?
<\sh> DanielN_, no...but search for the missing reference
<DanielN_> aha
<DanielN_> and how?
<\sh> somewhere is a function which calls this function wich is missing...can be, that the object file is not mentioned in the library creation
<\sh> DanielN_, u r member already, right?
<DanielN_> yep
<\sh> can u remove yourself from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<DanielN_> argh
<jsgotangco> ooohh right there's a CC meeting in an hour
<DanielN_> i forget that ...
<\sh> no problem :) I'm looking right now over the new members :)
<DanielN_> hrmpf
<DanielN_> that's a silly work to find that goddamn error
<ivoks> meeting? agian? :)
<ivoks> lol
<\sh> motaboy, are u attending today the CC meeting? or r u already approved member?
<\sh> DanielN_, that's our job ;)
<\sh> ivoks, community council
<ivoks> i know
<DanielN_> \sh: i know ;)
<DanielN_> \sh: i'm removed no
<DanielN_> from the agenda
<ivoks> \sh: maybe we should show template to one or two DDs?
<\sh> ajmitch and dilinger :)
<ivoks> right :)
<DanielN_> \sh: do you build it with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot?
<\sh> DanielN_, i'm using only pbuilder
<DanielN_> \sh: me too, but i've upgraded my lap yesterday to breezy
<\sh> DanielN_, so every b-d is pulled again and clean
<ivoks> clean?
<\sh> DanielN_, me too :) and my pbuilder was always breezy :)
<ivoks> hm... lots of MB
<DanielN_> \sh: i got another error than you
<\sh> ivoks, i don't have a bandwidth ticker :)
<ivoks> lucky you :)
<\sh> DanielN_, which one?
<DanielN_> \sh: first, unmet build deps and later an error in config.status, which says that fltk library wasn't found
<ivoks> i have 5GB per month for 12 euros
<\sh> DanielN_, hmmm...
<ivoks> fltkc2
<\sh> DanielN_, no...
<ivoks> :)
<DanielN_> ivoks: damn transition :P
<\sh> ivoks, no...if then you have a b-d pulled in by libfltk-dev
<ivoks> ok, what package are we talking about?
<DanielN_> aqsis
<ivoks> so i can check it with you and, maybe help
<ivoks> uh, big source
<DanielN_> hehe.. 40MB downstream here :)
<DanielN_> mbit
<ivoks> i have 1gbit/s
<DanielN_> huh?
<DanielN_> OMFG
<ivoks> surprised? :)
<DanielN_> :)
<DanielN_> yes i am
<ivoks> it takes 60 seconds to download sagre-cd1.iso :)
<\sh> 4mbit/s at home, flat and more then 1GB/s here in the company..
<jsgotangco> wtf
<\sh> coffee and a cigarette
<DanielN_> \sh: should do the same ;)
<ivoks> DanielN_: you are too young to smoke
<ivoks> DanielN_: so, where can i find your debdiff?
<DanielN_> ivoks: please.. don't teach my in things like smoking.. there are enough other people who try that again and again ;)
<DanielN_> ivoks: it's in bugzilla, wait a moment
<DanielN_> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11387
<ivoks> DanielN_: well, those pepole are right
<ivoks> DanielN_: you are 16, right?
<ivoks> DanielN_: look, i smoke now and then, but smoking with 16 is really bad
<ivoks> you loungs aren't developed
<ivoks> so, you are doing your self a big damage
<ivoks> ok, couple of things... debdiff isn't good :)
* Nafallo has never even tested cigarettes
<Nafallo> :-)
<ivoks> Nafallo: :)
<ivoks> DanielN_: in debian/control, line 5, Build-depends
<DanielN_> \sh: sure they are right.. but i love smoking
<ivoks> DanielN_: instead of libfltk1.1-dev there sould be libfltk1.1-dev (>= 1.1.6-2ubuntu1)
<ivoks> ok, let's try to build this..
<DanielN_> ok
<DanielN_> wait
<ivoks> DanielN_: why wait?
<\sh> a few minutes away..have to do some nagra stuff
<ivoks> \sh: see you at 14:00
<ivoks> uh... lots of Makefiles
<ivoks> i'm sure there will be problems with building this on amd64
<ivoks> warning "Unknown compiler version - please run the configure tests and report the results"
<ivoks> this doesn't look good :(
<ivoks> DanielN_: do you know why there must be (>= 1.1.6-2ubuntu1)?
<ivoks> two ogras :)
<DanielN_> ivoks: no not really.. cause i thought, that if there's no special version in the build deps, the available one would be taken
<DanielN_> mhm
<ivoks> DanielN_: well, versions 1.1.6-2ubuntu1 and above are compiled with gcc4/g++4
<DanielN_> aha
<DanielN_> :)
<ivoks> DanielN_: so your app should depend on same compilers to spot errors
<\sh> back
<DanielN_> mhm
<DanielN_> aqsis is a package for though guys i think ;>
<ivoks> DanielN_: did you have problems compiling this on i386?
<DanielN_> ivoks: it's still building.. but i got compiler version warnings already
<ivoks> that's ok
<ivoks> but it's compiling nicly
<\sh> ivoks,this boost stuff i patched to recognize gcc4/g++4 as compiler
<ivoks> yeah, this should be trivial..
<ivoks> \sh: that's the only problem, right?
<ivoks> cause, i don't see anything else atm
<\sh> ivoks, the warnings were not the problem
<ivoks> sure, but it looks good without them :)
<ivoks> there is one situation...
<\sh> as I mentioned in the bug: the latest build was failing because of undefined reference :)
<ivoks> imagebuffer.cpp:1578: warning: passing 'TqFloat' for argument 3 to 'static void Aqsis::CqOcclusionBox::CreateHierarchy(TqInt, TqInt, TqInt, TqInt)'
<ivoks> float to int
<ivoks> hm.
<ivoks> i don't know much about c++, but this isn't good :_)
<\sh> ivoks, warnings ok ;) u don't know what TqFloat is actually :)
<ivoks> \sh: i think name should be very inicative :)
<ivoks> indicative
<\sh> ivoks, no :)
<\sh> I don't want to depend on the names...sometimes it's wrong ;)
<ivoks> ok, this is upstream problem :)
<\sh> do u get any undefined references in one lib at the end of the build?
<ivoks> i agree, let's check...
<ivoks> still building
<\sh> ah ok
<DanielN_> \sh: still building here
<\sh> and it's bad that they're delivering their own boost lib
<\sh> but anyways
<ivoks> \sh: libslxargs/rcdummy.cpp:typedef float TqFloat;
<ivoks> libslxargs/rcdummy.cpp:typedef  int TqInt;
<ivoks> float to int
<ivoks> bad call, upstream, bad call :)
<DanielN_> fscking disabled laptop.. 600mhz isn't ok for compiling stuff
<DanielN_> :/
<\sh> ivoks, fix it send upstream ;)
<ivoks> \sh: maybe i will
<DanielN_> uff
<ivoks> DanielN_: fix /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf
<DanielN_> maybe it'll be build until breezy is released
<ivoks> pl. error
<ivoks> \sh: warning before this error is... guess what :)
<ivoks>  warning: converting to 'int' from 'TqFloat'
<DanielN_> ouch ;>
<\sh> ivoks, yeah, but this doesn't have to do with the missing reference of this function in the lib
<ivoks> true...
<\sh> and that's the reason why it's ftbfs
<DanielN_> \sh: ftbs here too
<ivoks> i know :)
<\sh> so, somewhere somehow this objectfile is missing in library creation
<ivoks> does fedora has aqasis?
<\sh> let me try something :)
<ivoks> ok http://aqsis.sourceforge.net/xoops/index.php is useless
<\sh> I'm trying to patch it...can be there there is a missing .la reference...lemme check
<jsgotangco> wow launchpad become slower than usual
<ivoks> heh
<ivoks> works ok now
<Riddell> when is review day?
<tseng> 27th iirc
<tseng> yes
<Riddell> tseng: where is that written?
<tseng> in the topic
<tseng> and i think -devel
<Riddell> crivvens, so it is
<tseng> squinn: over here please :)
<squinn> yep yep
<squinn> sorry tseng
<tseng> thanks.
<tseng> the more questions in-meeting the longer it takes
<tseng> which isnt a problem for me, but some people in other timezeones have to be up early/late to be there
<tseng> and want to be back to bed ;)
<jsgotangco> im getting sleepy
<jsgotangco> :D
<squinn> i've not showered yet hah
<squinn> now here's another question
<tseng> k
<squinn> what would i do if i wanted a package to be upgraded
<squinn> if there is a higher, better version, but it's not in ubuntu [my pkg is in main, for example] 
<squinn> what do i do?
<squinn> the package i'm looking at is essential -- it fixed a crucial docteam bug -- and the version with the bugfix isn't even in hoary yet
<squinn> er breezy rather
<squinn> i know it wouldn't be motu
<squinn> because it's not universe
<jsgotangco> squinn, what is that?
<squinn> gnome-doc-utils
<squinn> have you ever done any work in yelp jerome, because a bug in that pkg made font really gigantic and ugly thanks to an endterm flag
<ogra> squinn, so talk to the maintainer, nd give him your patch
<squinn> we have
<squinn> if you're talking about GNOME in general
<tseng> yes make a patch
<tseng> and give it to seb128
<jsgotangco> squinn, yeah
<ogra> squinn, (seb128 is the maintainer)
<jsgotangco> seb128
<squinn> give what patch though?
<squinn> the patch we gave to gnome
<squinn> or just tell him there's a new version
<tseng> the fix
<tseng> eh whatever
<tseng> tell him about the bug then
<squinn> okay
<squinn> alright, i just found an [easy]  bug
<squinn> it says mplayer is dependent on xmms..and it shouldn't be. how can i "break" this dependency?
<jamessan|work> squinn: actually, the mplayer GUI is dependent on xmms for some odd reason.  the non-gui package isn't
<Nafallo> xmms-output plugin
<squinn> that's what i was thinking
<squinn> xmmplayer
<squinn> but what i think the reporter wants to do is install mplayer w/o xmms..and this can't be because of a plugin?
* Nafallo hates that stupid plugin :-P
<ivoks> welcome JRe
<squinn> welcome.
<JRe> hi!
<squinn> congratulations.
<Riddell> squinn: he's not in yet
<shawarma> Question: In malone there's a bug regarding mplayer... That's not even in universe!
<Nafallo> shawarma: multiverse though
<ivoks> congrats
<jsgotangco> well he's in now :)
<Lathiat> its in multiverse
<Riddell> he's in!
<shawarma> Yes... Who handles that?
<Nafallo> shawarma: it's MOTU's responsibility as well :-)
<shawarma> Nafallo: Oh! I had no idea!
<Lathiat> MotuTeamMOTM? ;)
<squinn> shawarma, i'm responding on that bug now
<JRe> thanks ;) !
<shawarma> Can you somehow show that you are working on a particular bug? E.g. assign it to yourself?
<squinn> shawarma, I saw that on Gentoo bugzilla a lot
<squinn> add self to CCs
<shawarma> Right.. But is there any way to avoid two people from working on the same thing at the same time?
<squinn> Self-assign I guess.
<squinn> But otherwise no.
<shawarma> squinn: And by self-assign, you mean just add myself to the CC-list?
<squinn> No. Assigning the bug to your email.
<squinn> as in you'd be the one who the bug is assigned to.
<squinn> But sometimes that wouldn't stop people.
<shawarma> :-D I just asked 5 minutes ago if it was possible to assign a bug to yourself.. At least that's what I tried to ask. :-)
<shawarma> How do I do that?
<squinn> Yeah, and I said I saw that happen a lot in Gentoo.
<squinn> I don't know..you have to have certain privleges I believe.
<shawarma> Another question: Do you guys all run Breezy on your system?
<squinn> I run Hoary.
<Treenaks> I run breezy
<shawarma> squinn: How do you handle building stuff for Breezy?
<JRe> hoary
<shawarma> Set up a chroot env with debootstrap?
<JRe> (+deboostrapchroot to build package)
<squinn> shawarma, what do you mean?
<schweeb> use a pbuilder
<Riddell> Mez: well done
<squinn> Oh. I don't use Breezy -- or build stuff for it?
<Mez> ty
<Riddell> ogra: konversation k3b arn't in universe so they didn't need MOTU review
<shawarma> schweeb: Right, but it's a lot easier to debug stuff and such if you're running it somehow.
<shawarma> squinn: All the stuff you do for Universe is for breezy... Or did I misunderstand something?
<ogra> Riddell, yes, but there were contributions nobody beside you and Mez knew about... we should have a solution for this...
<squinn> Um, I'm not a MOTU
<shawarma> All that goes into hoary these days are urgent security fixes, right?
<squinn> Right.
<squinn> I just bug-triage here-and-there.
<Riddell> ogra: they were discussed on #kubuntu-devel, that's the best place for those packages
<Mez> ogra - brezy-changes mailing list
<shawarma> squinn: And how do you plan on testing your contributions?
<Riddell> ogra: and I doubt you'd be very interested in those two
<Mez> I had one of the konv developers contact me when my changes got pushed through on there
<squinn> I'm getting there, shawarmaa.
<squinn> extra a
<Mez> so they noticed :D
<ogra> Riddell, right
<squinn> For DocTeam, I do all Hoary stuff, and then in about August or September, I upgrade to Breezy and make all needed changes.
<shawarma> squinn: Ok... How about the changes to mplayer that you said you were working on?
<shawarma> squinn: I'm just a little confused.
<squinn> The mplayer thing I was working on was all of dependencies.
<squinn> Is it dependent to xmms or not?
<squinn> That's the question.
<squinn> Right now, it is because of xmmplayer.
<ogra> squinn, you do doc stuff for hoary ? why that ?
<shawarma> JRe: You said you used a debootstrapchroot to build run Breezy.. Did you just copy the hoary script in /usr/share/debootstrap and made a breezy one?
<squinn> Why doc stuff or why for Hoary?
<JRe> shawarma: i follow the wiki page indications
<shawarma> squinn: The mplayer thing is not just a faulty dependency. Mplayer can fall back to using xmms to play stuff.
<JRe> shawarma: s/follow/followed/
<squinn> shawarma, like what..xmms can't play videos?
<shawarma> JRe: Oh! I didn't see that one.
<squinn> without the plugin
<shawarma> squinn: If you try playing something with mplayer that doesn't work, it tries with xmms.
<shawarma> squinn: mplayer can play audio as well as video, you know.
<squinn> i know that
<squinn> alright, got it
<squinn> thanks
<squinn> and i'm upgrading to breezy now
* squinn holds breath
<Riddell> ogra: do you have other suggestions for MOTU and Kubuntu working better together?
<ogra> Riddell, lets talk about it after the meeting.... but have a look at: http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool/ and http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool/ER.png
<ogra> it could solve this
<bddebian> Howdy folks
<squinn> what's the difference between malone/bugzilla?
<JRe> ogra: ow it's very nice!
<JRe> it's a way better than modifying the wiki page
<ogra> yeps
<\sh> time for a coffee and something to smoke
<jsgotangco> im going to bed
<DanielN_> \sh: i don't say anything now ;)
<jsgotangco> laterz
<ivoks> agree
<ogra> we wanted to go for request tracker (RT) but siretart's tol looks better tailored
<ivoks> long meeting
<JRe> \sh: craven ;) ;) ?
<DanielN_> squinn: malone is part of launchpad and will replace bugzilla, if it's finnished
<DanielN_> (if i'm right)
<squinn> right okay
<\sh> back
<ivoks> hi :)
<\sh> ogra, agreed
<\sh> JRe, what about craven?
<JRe> \sh: (cigaret brand you smoked)
<\sh> JRe, Turner Tobacco
<ivoks> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members - ah, lol
<ivoks> now it looks like i'm not even member :)
* Treenaks dismembers ivoks 
<bddebian> Doh
<Riddell> how do I get added to that launchpad page?
<bddebian> Riddell: Add yourself.  I did it yesterday. :-)
<Riddell> ah hah https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+join
<ogra> Riddell, log n and go to https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+join
<\sh> siretart, can we get in touch for the motu review tool? later this day via IM or query? :)
<ivoks> does anyone has ubuntu.com address?
* ogra raises hand
<ivoks> it seems to me that my emails are rejected (probably considerd spam)
<ivoks> ogra: ubuntu.com is just forward, right?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but it hs to be set up by elmo...
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> ogra: could I send you an email to check will it go trough?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> ogra@ubuntu.com
<ivoks> ok, sent...
<ivoks> ogra: did you get it?
<ogra> ivoks, looks like
<ivoks> ok, then fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com accepts my email
<ivoks> nah...
<bddebian> Does the Ubuntu live CD have ssh/scp on it??
<GNULinuxer> bddebian> yes
<bddebian> GNULinuxer: Thanks
<sivang> bddebian: nice to see familiar nicknames around here :-)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> Hello sivang
<sivang> bddebian: Hello hello, are you caught up on the Ubuntu epidemic as well? ;-)
<bddebian> sivang: Not yet, but I'm hoping
<\sh> sivang: did u write an email to me?
<sivang> bddebian: well, I think you're in for a nice ride. Stay tuned
<sivang> \sh: yes, I responsed to one of your threads.
<\sh> sivang, ah :)
<bddebian> sivang: Well just wait for Ubuntu GNU/Hurd.. ;-P
<sivang> bddebian: uh-ha! now this is some RAD stuff :-)
<bddebian> Heh
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> no it goes...
<\sh> now
<\sh> i hope it compiles now
<mgalvin> hi all
<bddebian> Hello mgalvin
<shawarma> What is the procedure if I fix a bug in malone? Where do I upload patches and such?
<shawarma> Well, at bug that is filed in malone, obviously.
<\sh> a link to a website  or paste it
<\sh> right now until it's working correctly
<shawarma> \sh: Oh, so eventually I'll be able to upload a patch into malone?
<tseng> dont paste it
<tseng> use pastebin
<\sh> yepp...when launchpad guys are implementing this feature
<\sh> pastebin?
<tseng> pastebin.com?
<\sh> paste it into malone ;)
<tseng> gar pastebin.ca might work better
<\sh> come on laptop i want to go home
<tseng> \sh:  i hate a lot of noise on the page
<tseng> oh well
<\sh> tseng, there should be a possibility to upload patche
<\sh> s
<tseng> of course
<tseng> we shouldnt be loosing functionality we have in bugzilla
<\sh> sh*t i have to stop my build now...have to catch the bloody bus
<\sh> laters
<ogra> hey tim__ :)
<ogra> great to see you here
<tim__> lol thanks, good to be here
<bddebian> Boy, I never got that.. ;-)
<ogra> guys, tim__ looks like a good candidate for a MOTUEnlightenment team, please help him with his first packages :)
<ogra> bddebian, not _YET_ ;)
<ogra> bddebian, but its also nice to see _you_ around ;)
<bddebian> Heh, nice out. ;-P
<tim__> hrm, this guide I'm reading is saying that building packages for libraries is a little tricker....maybe I'll start myself out w/ something else today
<bddebian> :-)
<ogra> tim__, easiest is to fix a existing package to get familiar with the internals
<shawarma> Ok, so I fixed a bug in Malone and created a patch and attached a link to it.. Then what? How do I notify someon who can actually do something about it?
<shawarma> Just shout it here?
<bddebian> Don't shout, I have a headache.. ;-)
<shawarma> :-) Ok then.
<tim__> ogra, know of a package that needs some fixin :)
* shawarma whispers that he has fixed bug nr. 1089 in Malone.
<ogra> look at malone (launchpad.ubuntu.com)
<shawarma> ogra: Me?
<ogra> shawarma, nope, tim__
<shawarma> ogra: Oh, ok. I thought there was a "notify someone with upload privs" button somewhere that I hadn't seen. :-)
<ogra> shawarma, put it on MOTUToReview in the wiki... with a link to the malone bug for now
<shawarma> ogra: Done. Thanks!
<ogra> :) thanks for the help
<DanielN> hi
<mitsuhiko> hi
<bddebian> Hello DanielN
<\sh> back
<mitsuhiko> wb
<bddebian> wb \sh
* ogra applauds \sh for a successfull kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts upload :)
<\sh> yeah..
<\sh> just recognized it...thx elmo riddell and all the others :)
<ogra> grrr, i hate these days where you try to build a package, the phone rings, you are 2h on the phone and doing a testbuild you realize your pbuilder is outdated while you phoned.... grrr
* ogra updates
<\sh> hehehe
<ogra> :)
<\sh> just like me...15 minutes for leaving work...starting aqsis build to test (2 hours of patching not included)
<\sh> and then...have leave for home because of this bloody bus ;)
<\sh> to
<\sh> hmm...stupid idea to tell this turkey guy to make the doener extra hot and extra spicy
<ogra> \sh, i hope you ordered some ayran too....
<\sh> ogra, nope...thats my pity
<\sh> ogra, is network-manager gnome somewhere in the queue?
<ogra> \sh, isnt it in main already ?
<\sh> whats the name?
<ogra> network-manager
<\sh> ahah.
<\sh> doesn't work: searches my non existent wifi lans ;)
<ogra> \sh, it still has issues, but will be the default for reezy
<ogra> \sh, ask thom abot it, he's the maintainer
<Nafallo> \sh: tell it not to search then?
<Nafallo> \sh: right click the applet.
<\sh> i can't stop it anymore
<\sh> i killall the processes and it's restarting
<Nafallo> \sh: yepp :-)
<\sh> and it's eating my cpu io
<Nafallo> \sh: but if you rightclick the applet you can tell it not to search for wlans :-)
<\sh> yeah...but i want to stop it
<ogra> \sh, even better, have a look at your syslog ;)
<ogra> depending on your HW that can be fun....
<\sh> argl..dhcp request
<ogra> i get a message every 10 sec
<DanielN> \sh: are you fixing aqsis, or not?
<ogra> mdz gets 100 messages every sec ;)
<\sh> DanielN, I just got a bad build again...need to search somewhere else..but if you have a solution :) "her damit"
<\sh> if i killall 4 processes...it's restarting 2 more
<ogra> yay... perpetuum mobile :)
<DanielN> \sh: there wasn't any time in this afternoon at work to search the bug, but i'll tell if i find it :)
<Nafallo> Jun 21 18:09:14 darkelf NetworkManager: <WARNING>^I  (): Warning: the wireless card (eth1) requires too much time for scans.  Its driver needs to be fixed.
<Nafallo> wee! :-)
<\sh> ok..reboot tut gut
<ogra> write a script that kills them and transform the extra processes into energy :)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> apt-get remove network-manager
<ivoks> hehe
<ivoks> me too
<ivoks> don't forget bind9 and resolvconf too
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> bind9 doesn't matter ;)
<siretart> \sh: sorry, doesn't look good this evening :(
<\sh> siretart, doesn't matter...I don't have much time eather..have to be in the office tomorrow morning at 5
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> ok..now i understand
<\sh> CqPoolable<Aqsis::CqLath, 512l>::m_thePool
<\sh> this aqsis needs
<\sh> but
<\sh>  static      CqMemoryPool<T, S>      m_thePool;
<\sh> this is defined
<\sh> in CqPoolable
<\sh> oh no...CqPoolable is a template
<Amaranth> shit
<Amaranth> i missed the meeting again
<\sh> you're in
<siretart> ok
<Amaranth> *boggle*
<Amaranth> i got accepted without even being there?
<bddebian> Nice
<Amaranth> <mako> i'm willing to approve him based on the fact that he's showed up to just about every other CC meeting ever :)
<Amaranth> <jsgotangco> except his approval meeting?
<Amaranth> hehe
<bddebian> whoops :-)
<DanielN> \sh: so you have it now, or not? :)
<bddebian> Where is the Ubuntu framework stuff if I wanted to try to start an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distro?
<DanielN> is there a place, where i can see if im approved as member?
<Amaranth> DanielN: just irc logs, afaik
<DanielN> Amaranth: ok, then i am :)
<bddebian> denied..
<bddebian> ;-P
<DanielN> bddebian: have fun.. see ya in, mhm... 30 years maybe?
<DanielN> :P
<bddebian> ugh?
<DanielN> or is hurd commin next year? ;>
<bddebian> It'll be soon(tm) ;-P
<DanielN> Amaranth: could you point me please to the irc logs?
<brodmann> i'm trying to extract a .run file, but everytime it extracts to the folder, when it's finished, it deletes that tmp folder
<lsuactiafner> lol do ppl know what biltong is?
<\sh> yes they know
<bddebian> We do?
<\sh> bddebian, read my blog :)
<bddebian> \sh: Link?
<\sh> linux.blogweb.de
<bddebian> Hey, where'd you get that picture of my ashtray? :-)
<\sh> DanielN, ping
<bddebian> I see no reference to biltong?
<\sh> daylight robbery
<\sh> is the title
<bddebian> I think I must be going blind..
<\sh> second page or third page
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/18-Daylight-Robbery.html
<bddebian> Ahh, thx
<bddebian> w000t, my other StinkPad showed up today.. Ubuntu here I come.. ( I hope )
<DanielN> \sh: pong with 5mins delay (i don't say for what i'm going out ;) )
<\sh> DanielN, i'M building it again, to verify my thesis right now...theres something missing
<DanielN> \sh: as i said, i'd be back in 5mins, but sounds interesting :)
<bddebian> No one knows where the derivative framework information is??
<DanielN> \sh: there now.. something new?
<\sh> no not now...let me look
<DanielN> ok
<\sh> this static variable is in libaqsistypes but it isn't include in the ld_add macro of Makefile.am for aqsis
<DanielN> ah
<DanielN> and since you're a smart guy, you have included it, right? :)
<\sh> I'm trying to, yes
<DanielN> \sh: cool.. say if i could help ;>
<\sh> have to patch a little
<ivoks> still playing with aqsis? :)
<\sh> DanielN, ocaml is ready to compile...your second opened bug :)
<\sh> ivoks, yepp
<ivoks> i'm backporting sarge's samba to hoary
<ivoks> i need 3.0.14 :(
<DanielN> why backporting just for yourself?
<ivoks> my backports will be available to others :)
<bddebian> Is it always preferred to build from Debian packages rather than build from upstream?
<ivoks> when i test them...
<ivoks> away.. not here
<DanielN> \sh: ocaml? i've taken care about that?
<DanielN> \sh: i read some irc logs on a friends blog.. you smoke 20 cigs in a week? wow nice! i'd work on that damn habbit :)
<DanielN> :( i ment
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11403
<bddebian> So have I already alienated myself from this channel too?? :-)
<DanielN> \sh: ahh... gdome2-xslt.. clear
<DanielN> bddebian: alienated??
<\sh> DanielN, what I'm doing=
<bddebian> DanielN: Pissed everyone off. :-)  90% of #d-d hates me. :-)
<DanielN> bddebian: you talked about the release cycles? or about debian/hurd?? :D
* DanielN fixes: you have talken
<bddebian> DanielN: No, I'm just generally annoying :-)
<\sh> DanielN, which blog?
<DanielN> bddebian: back to your question: i'm new to that business, but if there's a debian package already, you have to take that! it would be silly to do work twice
<DanielN> \sh: http://www.active-4.com/blog/?p=24
<DanielN> \sh: it's the one of mitsuhiko
<\sh> ah...but I'm smoking more then 20 a week.
<\sh> lets say 35-40 per day :(
<DanielN> LOL
<DanielN> 2 packages?
<\sh> one package of tobacco
<\sh> one package of tobacco and one package of cigarette paper..that means really 50 cigarettes per day
<\sh> rymthbox is not working :(
<DanielN> \sh: ah.. you're talking about the money stuff of smoking ;)
<\sh> DanielN, no I'm talking about smoking 50 cigs per day...== one package of tobacco (since a couple of months i'm smoking only hand made cigarettes)
<\sh> hand rolled ;)
<bddebian> DanielN: Because sometimes Debians patches suck?
<bddebian> Also because sometimes maintainers are lazy and are way behind upstream
<DanielN> \sh: it's much cheaper
<DanielN> bddebian: yep.. sometimes that happens
<plugwash> bddebian ideally you should cooperate with the debian maintainers
<bddebian> plugwash: Fair enough, but what if they suck? :-)
<plugwash> then you may have to consider other options
<DanielN> like packaging from scratch again?
<DanielN> i think it's better to make the debian package suitable and then tell that to the DD
<DanielN> or maintainer i mean
<bddebian> OK, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I have just dug through the Old Debian bugs and there are LOTS of them.. :-)
* plugwash checks to see if freepascal has been bootstrapped yet
<DanielN> plugwash: you're working on the freepascal package?
<plugwash> nah i don't think any ubuntu guys have
<plugwash> i'm not a ubuntu dev myself
<tseng> you could be
<plugwash> the freepascal source from debian is sitting there but it needs manual bootstrapping because it needs freepascal to build
<DanielN> plugwash: i have :)
<DanielN> or had ;)
<plugwash> DanielN well i still don't see any freepascal binaries sitting in the universe pool
<DanielN> plugwash: no
<DanielN> ftbs
<DanielN> the bootstrapping thing
<plugwash> freepascal CAN'T be built without an existing freepascal binary to build it with
<plugwash> because its written in pascal and it uses compiler features that no other pascal compiler offers
<DanielN> plugwash: yeah.. and that's why i stopped working on it
<plugwash> i asked lamont to bootstrap it and he said he would be he doesn't seem to have got arround to doing it
<\sh> hmm....i just fixed a bug which is filed at upstream but not included...i'm good, but this doesn't help
<DanielN> :)
<DanielN> nur mut
<DanielN> argh sorry... i switch between german and english channels
<plugwash> is there an official ubuntu policy on compilers that compile themselves and if so where is it documented?
<DanielN> plugwash: no idea.. as i said.. i'm quite new to that business :)
<ivoks> bddebian: why do they hate you? :)
<bddebian> ivoks: Some, I don't know.  Others I tend to annoy for some reason..
<ivoks> heh...
<\sh> ok filed an upstream bug: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1225058&group_id=25264&atid=383970
<DanielN> hi mehrfachstecker
<mehrfachstecker> hi DanielN ;)
<DanielN> \sh: arghs.. sf.net is damn slow
<DanielN> \sh: so the wiki state of aqsis is "waiting for new upstream release" ?
<\sh> no...waiting for patch :)
<DanielN> \sh: not too pingelig please :))
<DanielN> bybye
<tseng> \sh: what in the hell is that crap you keep posting on your blog
<\sh> tseng, u mean the pictures?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> mouse eggs?
<\sh> views of an sysadmin
<tseng> i see..
<\sh> watch those pictures with an ironic eye
<lesliev> hello!!
<bddebian> I AM the smoking admin!! :-)
<bddebian> Hello lesliev
<lesliev> nothing like building packages to make you feel like a newbie!
<bddebian> :-)
<ivoks> wow! this is great
<ivoks> koffice 1.4
<ivoks> and we have ubuntu packages on kde.org
<lesliev> nice!
<ivoks> \sh: i prefere gnome, it's UI is much nicer and simpler than KDE's
<lesliev> Is there really a functional difference between KDE and Gnome?
<lesliev> ie. they seem to have equivalent functionality
<Burgundavia> they are rapidly approaching similar functionality
<lesliev> A friend of mine doesn't like Gnome, but can't say why ;-)
<ivoks> funcionality is same
<lesliev> I have never had a prob with either, except for menu editing
<ivoks> but user interface is nicer in gnome, imo
<lesliev> I think KDE is better?
<ivoks> there is no better one :)
<lesliev> With menu editing
<ivoks> they are both great
<Burgundavia> I personally think that gnome is the way to go, but hey, what do I know?
<ivoks> :)
<lesliev> I am just using it because Ubuntu works best in Gnome
<lesliev> I think it's a bit of a waste that so much effort is going into both separately
<ivoks> no..
<ivoks> do you know how many great projects there are?
<ivoks> e17, xfce, fvwm, blackbox...
<Burgundavia> the freedesktop stuff is trying to bridge that gap
<ivoks> and that's the best project there is for linux desktop
<lesliev> I ran e17 for a while, I had a startrek theme that was GREAT
<lesliev> Just longed for a taskbar because the little pixtures of the desktops were too small
<ivoks> it needs some polishing and then it will be best interface
<mitsuhiko> gnome, kde, e, xfce: doesn't matter, all run quake ;-)
<lesliev> heh
<lesliev> I am running Tribes 2 mostly. Under Cedega.
<lesliev> My windows partition is gathering dust ;-)
<ivoks> i'm waiting xen to support windows
<ivoks> ok, i will leave only one server on debian
<ivoks> all other are going to ubuntu
<\sh> ok..time to sleep...
<\sh> cu tmororrow
<ivoks> night
<ivoks> hm... deutschland plays nice soccer...
<ogra> Mez, ping
<Mez> ogra, pong
<ogra> Mez, could you try to avoid the word Newbie ? (just seeing your mail)
<Mez> ogra, if you read it, we're lookign to changing the name :D
<Mez> didnt know you were on the mailing list ogra :D
<ogra> Mez, hey, every MOTU is supposed to read it...
<ogra> (some dont do it... but you cant force all people to hear the users voice ;) )
<ogra> hmm, did i scare him ?
<ivoks> what list? :)
<ivoks> -devel?
<ogra> -users
<tseng> hah, I'm supposed to read that?
* tseng furthers his poor example
<ivoks> oh, i'm reading -kernel and -devel
<ogra> tseng, sure to know whats going on...
<ivoks> ogra: how many mails per day is there?
<ogra> tseng, alternatively you could lurk in #ubuntu some hours ;)
<ogra> ivoks, 50-100 depends.....
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> many
<ogra> nah
<ivoks> i get 1000 spams daily
* ogra has forgotten about the days he had less then 300 mails a day
<ogra> (no spam)
<ivoks> ogra: i'm on lot's of lists beside ubuntu :)
<ogra> me too
<ivoks> ogra: i get maybe 5 spams
<tseng> 100s
<ivoks> but 1000 is stoped daily at server
<tseng> yay for spamassassin
<ivoks> tseng: 50% of my spams is stoped by postfix
<ivoks> 10% by amavis
<tseng> yeah i have some rules
<ivoks> and rest by sa
<tseng> in psotfix
<tseng> for non RFC stuff
<ivoks> right :)
<ivoks> reject_invalid_hostname
<tseng> i have a bunch more than that
<ivoks>  reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining, reject_unauth_destination, reject_maps_rbl
<tseng> i have less on sender
<tseng> and more on recipient
<tseng> hm
* tseng adds your
<tseng> s
<ivoks> me too
<ivoks> no, this are all recipients :)
<tseng> er
<tseng> smptd_sender_restrictions =
<tseng> smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
<tseng> i think you are mixing things up
<ivoks> nope :)
<tseng> why would you put sender restrictions for recipient
<ivoks> smtpd_recipient = reject_invalid_hostname, reject_non_fqdn_sender, reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_unauth_pipelining, permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_destination, reject_maps_rbl, permit
<tseng> oh
<ivoks> i get 500 UBE/UCE daily with this rules
<ivoks> only on my account
<ivoks> tseng: http://master.grad.hr/amavis-stats
<ajmitch> hi
<tseng> hi
<ivoks> hi ajmitch
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-29
<ivoks> ajmitch: looks like you and me aren't members yet :)
<ivoks> well... time to go
<ivoks> night all
<ivoks> 1:1 :)
<ajmitch> only accordin to launchpad..
<Mez> yeah, apparentlly Riddell isnt a member :P
<ajmitch> because the existing members haven't been imported there
<Riddell> am too
<Riddell> I was the first member
<lesliev> g'nite all!
<Thanatermesis> hi
<Thanatermesis> any person like to are a beta-tester for the packages of E17 ? (from debian originally)
<Thanatermesis> I need to adapt my packages for ubuntu users for if any ubuntu user are interessing
<ajmitch> I'd like to, if I weren't at work :)
<Burgundavia> Thanatermesis, you might find more takers in #ubuntu
<Thanatermesis> no ubuntu interessed...
<Thanatermesis> ubuntu persons speak: what is E17 ?
<Thanatermesis> hehe
* terrex taotrodiita
<mfgalizi> OK, so, I added my requested package to the UniverseCandidates site, and the location of the packages I have made too.  Now I can just wait, or is there something more I should do to get these included?
<ajmitch> yes, add them to MOTUNewPackages
<mfgalizi> k
<mfgalizi> and thats the start of the submission queue?
<ajmitch> in a sense :)
<mfgalizi> thanks ajmitch
<mfgalizi> Should it be accepted, will I be offered the opportunity to maintain? (like the Debian mentors thing)
<ajmitch> we don't have a strict concpet of maintainership as debian does
<mfgalizi> ok, well, mission one is getting it in, i'll worry about the rest later.
<ajmitch> you could certainly put up new versions for review & becoming a MOTU is much quicker than becoming a DD :)
<mfgalizi> cool
<ajmitch> mfgalizi: you may wish to put your name in the MOTUNewPackages page there..
<mfgalizi> ajmitch, under "NEW Maintiner" ?
<mfgalizi> my name is mentioned on the paged linked to by location
<ajmitch> yes
<mfgalizi> ok
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
* tseng wonders why he wanted to put all this mono stuff in main
<ajmitch> because you enjoy pain
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> He's like Jeff then eh.. :-)
<mfgalizi> ok, thanks all!
<tseng> bddebian: eh
<Burgundavia> tseng, because it builds character
<tseng> yes
<bddebian> Heh
* tseng looks over at his 43423423 hoary cds
<bddebian> You have 43M Hoary CDs?
<tseng> no, i have 70
<tseng> give or take a few
<tseng> ajmitch: did you get my mail to -devel
<ajmitch> last one I saw from you was a couple of days ago about the maintainer's guide
<tseng> yeah..
<tseng> i posted on about main reviews
<tseng> a few minutes/hours ago
<tseng> ah i have it now
<ajmitch> gmane has it
<tseng> i *just* got it
<doko> ajmitch: could you have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ginac/1.3.0-2ubuntu3/ginac_1.3.0-2ubuntu3_20050622-0050-i386-failed.gz
<ajmitch> doko: alright..
<ajmitch> doko: I'll update the existing dpatch for it then
<doko> ajmitch: thanks
<bddebian> So if I want to start doing some stuff, should I install breezy?
<ajmitch> at least in a chroot
<bddebian> pfft, chroots are for pussies.. :-)
<ajmitch> how kind of you to say so
<bddebian> Bah.. :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: You don't love me anymore either?? :'-(
<ajmitch> only when you decide to be insulting & silly again :)
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> OK, I admit I'm weird, but am I really insulting?
<crimsun> a bit grating at times.
<crimsun> the language could certainly be a bit less colourful, too.
* bddebian scrolls back and only sees one even remotely dirty word
<DanielN_> morning
<\sh> moins
<\sh> ahhhyes...my kde is running again
<Lathiat> gnome never broke! ;p
<\sh> kde also not
<\sh> but X
<\sh> Xkb at least ;) and then my .kde settings were f****up
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> its all Xs fault ;p
<Lathiat> gnome didnt get upset about buggered xkb tho,it just asked once about it? ;P
<Lathiat> </abait>
<siretart> moin
<DanielN_> argh
<DanielN_> how can i check the right version compiled with gcc4 for the build deps (talking about cxx trans)
<\sh> DanielN_: you mean gnome?
<\sh> DanielN_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<DanielN_> \sh: gnome?? no, not gnome
<\sh> whcih package?
<DanielN_> soqt
<DanielN_> unmet buld deps
<\sh> DanielN_: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/soqt/
<DanielN_> \sh: well, the build deps are the same as mine, but it doesn't build??
<\sh> DanielN_: put your buildlogs somewhere so that I can see :)
<DanielN_> it's just the same as yesterday with aqsis.. but i don't know the right version
<DanielN_> for the build deps
<DanielN_> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: doxygen xlibs-dev xlibmesa-dev | libgl-dev libcoin40-dev libqt3-mt-dev qt3-dev-tools
<\sh> in your pbuilder?
<DanielN_> no
<\sh> no?
<DanielN_> \sh: i'm building on breezy direct
<DanielN_> dpkg-buildpackage
<\sh> oergs
<DanielN_> oergs
<DanielN_> ok :)
<\sh> why don't u use pbuilder? it's easier to debug pbuilder package.dsc &> build.log
<DanielN_> \sh, ok ok.. but that doesn't solve my problem...
<DanielN_> how to find out, to what the deps must be changed
<\sh> DanielN_: i can't tell you, cause I don't know what you have installed on your main system
<\sh> apt-get install oxygen xlibs-dev xlibmesa-dev libcoin40-dev libqt3-mt-dev qt3-dev-tools
<\sh> DanielN_: pbuilder would say which package he can't fetch
<DanielN_> \sh, ok i pbuild it when i'm back from toilet ;)
<DanielN_> hm.. seems that it builds with pbuilder :/
<\sh> DanielN_: so you didn't install all the deps on your system...that's the reason why: use pbuilder
<DanielN_> :)
<DanielN_> \sh: you smoked how much today?
<\sh> 10
<DanielN_> ouch :/
<DanielN_> for me: 2 *freu* :))
<shawarma> Can someone please explain the difference between universe and multiverse?
<DanielN_> multiverse are non free
<DanielN_> if i'm right
<shawarma> DanielN_: I see. What's in "restricted", then?
<DanielN_> packages linked to stuff in main, but non free
<DanielN_> if i'm right again ;)
<shawarma> Ok... The why is restricted enabled by default, but not (un|mult)iverse?
<DanielN_> no  security fixes
<DanielN_> in universe and multiverse
<DanielN_> that's why they are not enabled
<DanielN_> by default
<Lathiat> is anyone working with the debian guys to provide security updates wereposible?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> there's at least 1 person working hard on universe security
<Lathiat> who?
<herzi> ogra: ping
<\sh> DanielN_: i will grab it now and try to upload
<DanielN_> \sh, soqt?
<\sh> DanielN_: jepp
<\sh> DanielN_: u r subscriped to breezy changes?
<\sh> DanielN_:
<\sh> Urgency: low
<\sh> Maintainer: Steve M. Robbins <smr@debian.org>
<\sh> Changed-By: Daniel Neuenschwander <neuenschwander@dev.erased.ch>
<\sh> Description:
<\sh>  libsoqt-dev - Qt GUI component toolkit for Inventor - development
<\sh>  libsoqt20  - Qt GUI component toolkit for Inventor - runtime
<DanielN_> \sh, huh?
<DanielN_> \sh, another question, what i don't understand yet: how are these debdiffs which we provide in the bts applied to the package? is this happen in the buildd's ?
<\sh> no...by hand
<\sh> or automatically via script .. but not on the buildds
<ivoks> DanielN_: via patch program :)
<DanielN_> ok guys
<DanielN_> i'm leaving.. i toke free for this afternoon, harhar ;)
<DanielN_> cu later
<ivoks> i'm holiday in croatia :)
<ivoks> s/it\'m/it\'s/
<ivoks> argh..
<ogra> herzi, pong
<ivoks> ogra: i would like to join edubuntu
<ogra> ivoks, great
<ivoks> and maybe with time, fork project :)
<ogra> are you already subscribed to edubuntu-devel ?
<ivoks> nope, will do that...
<ogra> yep, thats a good start
<ivoks> i'm thinking to start corporate team
<ivoks> that would produce server-clients enviorment
<ivoks> it very much like edubuntu, so contributing to edubuntu would be good start :)
<ogra> ivoks, that is what edubuntu is going for, yes... we start with one classroom and grow/shrink the setup in further releases...
<ogra> skolelinux is dreaming of 50000 clients and 200 servers and the like...
<ogra> so we'll try to scale up to this as near as we can :)
<ivoks> hehe
<siretart> does anyone happen to know if we have kolab (or even kolab2) in breezy?
<ivoks> i was checking that app too yestrday
<ivoks> we have koffice :)
<siretart> a friend is looking for a groupware solution, and I try to convince him of ubuntu :)
<ivoks> no, kolab isn't in breezy
<ivoks> siretart: evolution-data-center?
<siretart> ivoks: jepp. koffice and kmail and friends are the client parts. I'm talking about the server part
<herzi> ogra: i have new hula packages
<herzi> (built against hoary)
<ivoks> evolution-data-server :)
<ogra> herzi, why no breezy ?
<siretart> ivoks: do you happen to know what would be necessary to syncronize evolution calendars and tasks? what kind of server software would I need?
<herzi> i'm still on hoary (the X issue)
<ivoks> siretart: i'm checking it right now
<herzi> when i'm back from the linuxtag i'll build it against breezy
<ivoks> siretart: i think it's localhost only
<siretart> herzi: we cannot upload to hoary anymore, its released. if you want them included (I'd love to test them for my friend looking for a groupware solution), you would need to provide packages for breezy
<ivoks> siretart: but you have opengroupware and phpgroupware
<siretart> ivoks: that would be webbased only then?
<ivoks> siretart: this two work with evolution/thunderbird/outlook etc
<ivoks> siretart: no
<ivoks> siretart: webdav
<siretart> ivoks: phpgroupware have an webdav enabled server onboard nowadays?
<siretart> last time I checked that (ok, about 3 years ago), I didn't find anythin in that direction
<siretart> perhaps 2yrs.
<ivoks> siretart: i'm sure for opengroupware
<siretart> hm. he wanted to check egroupware, iirc..
<siretart> ivoks: but thanks anyway. is on the list for evaluation.
<siretart> must work on review-tool first ;)
<ivoks> http://www.instantogo.com/ - nice :)
<siretart> ivoks: yeah, I found that earlier today. but if I understood that correctly, they don't provide free downloads
<herzi> siretart: you can tell your friend to take a look at http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/packages/hula
<herzi> they should be fine for breezy too (as i also run them on sarge without recompiling)
<siretart> herzi: that'll be great. we also installed sarge on the target machine, so I would recompile for sarge anyway
<siretart> herzi: do you have a reference which lists the key features of hula?
<herzi> www.hula-project.org
<Burgundavia> hula is under pretty heavy development right now
<Burgundavia> I would choose something more stable for a production system
<siretart> herzi: would you consider hula mature enough for replacement of an exchange server for a small office?
<herzi> no
<siretart> :(
<herzi> i think you should wait about 6 months
<herzi> i'm using it for my personal email only
<siretart> ok. thank you anyway
<herzi> it mostly works
<Burgundavia> in about 6 months, once they get the gmail-style interface going, it will rock
<siretart> ic
<\sh> ogra: ping
* asw waves
<ivoks> hi/bye :)
<\sh> Anyone interessted in building a MOTU InstantMessaging team?
<asw> What is an InstantMessaging team?
<ivoks> \sh: ?
<\sh> Instant Messaging is clear I think, something like Jabber
<\sh> so, the team should build an enviroment to have a good ammount of components etc. for jabber IM and build a server base for installing a jabber im solution directly from cd ;)
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i think this could be inside one bigger team
<ivoks> like corporate team
<ivoks> with IM and groupware
<\sh> ivoks: right now theres nothing at all :)
<\sh> ivoks: the server pakcages for jabber are crap..i just updated jabberme.net/org/de with a new version of jabberd2 (compiled against hoary)
<\sh> ivoks: the components right now, are only build against jabberd1, which is, sorry to say, obsolete for the majority of jabber IM developers
<ivoks> i don't use jabber that often
<ivoks> jabber can have server on one computer and clients in same subnet?
<\sh> ivoks: u should.
<\sh> ivoks: jabber is decentralized
<ivoks> so they could use it wihtout contacting outside?
<\sh> ivoks: sure
<ivoks> didn't know that...
<\sh> ivoks: sending messages is only one small part of the jabber idea
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> what else?
<\sh> jabber, better to say, xmpp is an xml stream protocol, where u can transform one protocol data into xml , transport it via jabber server, and on the other side, there is a client which can translate the xml data into native data and display it
<\sh> or do something else with it
<\sh> e.g. pubsub
<\sh> there is a whole community which is using pubsub via jabber to get their rss feeds, or something else...
<\sh> www.pubsub.com
<ivoks> nice
<\sh> there is more
<\sh> sending mail to your im account...first it lands into your imap account, second it will be send to your IM client directly
<\sh> ok..going home now...cu later guys
<ivoks> bye
<siretart> does anybody has a better name than "review-tool"?
<tseng> lintian?
<tseng> :P
<siretart> nope. already taken
<tseng> what are you making?
<siretart> implementing http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool
<siretart> how about uma?
<siretart> :)
<JRe> siretart: may be reviewforge
<JRe> ;)
<JRe> package-forge ?
<JanC> "revu" ?
<JRe> JanC: revu is cool ;)
<siretart> We've chosen uma, reffering to the nameing scheme of dak ;)
<elmo> uma's already in use in packaged dak
<elmo> FWIW
<siretart> oh.
<siretart> I've seen it only on the "reserved for future use" list
<JRe> siretart: in which language is coded review-tool ?
<siretart> JRe: python
<siretart> # Add a user to to the uid/maintainer/fingerprint table and
<siretart> ok, found uma
<tseng> is that thing going to integrate automatic pbuild/lintian/linda testing?
<tseng> or just be a place for us to sanely comment
<tseng> dont get me wrong I already like it
<siretart> tseng: yes, this is planned for next step. we want to have basic reviewing functionality soon
<JRe> i find that rock too :)
<tseng> siretart++
<tseng> great stuff
<siretart> elmo: could you suggest an neat name? ;)
<siretart> ok, will take JanC's suggestion: revu
<JRe> siretart: yeah that is cool ;)
<ogra> siretart, elma ;) (elmo automated)
<ogra> (since it builds and tests the packages like he does)
<tseng> we could call it grover
<tseng> because he hangs with elmo
<ogra> yeah, great :)
<bddebian> Howdy
<bddebian> Quiet today.  Have I scared everyone away?? :-)
<JRe> lo
<\sh> hey jre
<bddebian> Hello JRe
<Micksa> what's the deal with the mplayer/ac3 bug?
<DanielN> hi folks :)
<bddebian> Heya DanielN
<DanielN> back from river :)
<DanielN> now fixing libyehia ;>
<bddebian> DanielN: Which river?
<\sh> DanielN: your package went through :)
<DanielN> bddebian, the Aare in bern, switzerland
<bddebian> Ahh, a little ways away from me. :-)
<DanielN> \sh, i saw .. i'm happy, thx ;)
<DanielN> bddebian, from where do you come
<DanielN> \sh, but need help again anyways.. got 5mins for me?
<\sh> jup
<bddebian> DanielN: Pennsylvania USA currently
<DanielN> bddebian, ou.. well, i think there are a huge of larger rivers in US
<bddebian> Yeah, we have the Delaware river close to us
<DanielN> \sh, i'm working on libyehia..
<DanielN> \sh, it's pulling out something about deps i don't understand, but look:
<DanielN>  libsigcx-gtk-0.6-dev: Depends: libsigcx-0.6-dev (= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
<DanielN>                         Depends: libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1 (>= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
<DanielN> but this versions _are_ in breezy already :/
<DanielN> these
<\sh> aehm
<\sh> DanielN: did u update your pbuilder?
<DanielN> \sh, yes.. but sorry.. i found it already...
<DanielN> libsigcx-0.6-dev isn't in the build deps *shame*
<\sh> hmm..
* bddebian is bored
<\sh>  universe
<\sh> 
<\sh> libsigcx
<\sh> 
<\sh> libsigcx-0.6-2
<\sh> 
<\sh> libsigcx-0.6-2c2
<\sh> 
<\sh> 
<\sh> 
<\sh> ajmitch
<\sh> 
<\sh> DanielN: ask ajmitch if he uploaded already :)
<\sh> same for libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1c2
<DanielN> \sh: i'm talking about libsigcx-dev-0.6-2
<DanielN> \sh: i'm talking about libsigcx-0.6-2-dev
<\sh> DanielN: yes :) development packages :)
<\sh> for the same libs
<DanielN> away to eat
<\sh> DanielN: if they're showstoppers for u right now, ping ajmitch :) and poke him ;)
<bddebian> Dang, where is everyone today?
<bddebian> mort_: THE moritz?
<mort_> bddebian: the one and only
<bddebian> mort_: How have you been?
<mort_> bddebian: a bit pissed of, I thought I were home by now. trains in .ch don't work anymore
<mort_> bddebian: great power outage :-(
<bddebian> :-(
<mort_> bddebian: how about you? feeling fine? /join #bub-n-bros
<bddebian> bub-n-bros??
<bddebian> mort_: I'm seeing if I can't get everyone in #ubuntu-motu to hate me like they do in #d-d   :-)
<\sh> bddebian: we signed a letter of intend to not hate anybody for stupid questions :)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> ok...away...for some hours
<bddebian> Oh man, now no one is going to be here.. :'-(
<tim__> can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial for building ur first ubuntu package?
<bddebian> tim__: I haven't read it, but you can look at this one:  https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial_2fCDBS
<DanielN> wow mort_ shows his ass up at ubuntu chans :)
<bddebian> DanielN: Watch your language.. :-)
<DanielN> bddebian, i'm sure mort_ is understanding this.. aren't you? :P
<DanielN> or interpreting it correctly
<ogra> bddebian, please dont advise people to use cdbs for their first package
<bddebian> DanielN: Yes, but I got in trouble for saying pussy last night.. :-)  BTW, I was kidding
<bddebian> ogra: Oh, sorry
<ogra> tim__, try the debian new maintainers guide and learn a bit about debhelper and friends before you switch to cdbs, you need it first :)
<Nafallo> bddebian: you should have said kitten :-)
<DanielN> ajmitch, ping
<bddebian> ogra: Do YOU know where there is info about the framework for building Ubuntu based distros?
<ogra> bddebian, i only know there is a liveCD customization howto
<bddebian> Hmm, I read on one of the pages about some framework for creating derivitive distro's.. :-(
<ogra> but for rebranding you will have to look in other corners then that
<bddebian> Well I'm mainly thinking about Ubuntu GNU/Hurd.. ;-)
<ogra> bddebian, aks Kamion in -devel if you cant find something on the wiki... i know it was planned, but i'm not sure if it was a hoary or breezy goal
<bddebian> ogra: OK, thanks
<DanielN> ogra, are there any server related things to do for MOTU ?
<ogra> DanielN server related things ?
<ogra> you mean maintaining packages of server software ?
<DanielN> well, short time ago i had a sleepless night, cause there were a huge of ideas in server stategies
<DanielN> ogra, so, not only maintaining, but bringing in new ideas in the perspective of a good server distro
<DanielN> difficult to say exactlier what i mean in english :/
<ogra> DanielN sure...
<ogra> wasnt there a MOTUServer team ? if not ? add one ;)
<DanielN> ;>
<DanielN> sounds cool
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> ogra: I think my second StinkPad showed up today.  So where should I start? :-)
<DanielN> StinkPad ?
<ogra> hmm, in malone probably...
<bddebian> DanielN: IBM ThinkPad
<ogra> bddebian, just garb a bugor two and fix it...
<bddebian> ogra: Breezy stuff?
<ogra> yep
<bddebian> ogra: From launchpad?
<ogra> hoary is non interesting for us
<bddebian> Heya herve
<ogra> yep
<herve> hello everybody!
<ogra> hi herve
<herve> how was your "fte de la musique" ? :-)
<DanielN> bddebian, Thinkpads are great with ubuntu.. have one at work
<ogra> HPs are even better ;)
<herve> DanielN, I want to sign "when" TONIGHT!
<herve> Dell aren't :(
<ogra> since the kernel gets HP patches for their HW :)
<squinn> Question.
<herve> questions are usually followed by a question mark :-)
<bddebian> smart-aXX :-)
<squinn> I'm not a packager, not even a MOTU. I just come in here to help..without being a MOTU. If I know there's a new package out, do I package it per DeveloperResources' says to, and then forward to maintainer?
<ogra> squinn, only if it wont show up in debian in time for breezy... else you would duplicate the work...
<ogra> so if you have something that doesnt exist in either of them and isnt likely to show up in debian soon, package it and put it on MOTUNewPackages
<squinn> I said that wrong, ogra.
<squinn> I meant a new version of a package currently in universe.
<DanielN> ou.. hi squinn :)
<DanielN> could someone say to me, how the win terminal services client is named in ubuntu? (i'm on wmaker, so no gnome menu)
<herve> tsclient?
<squinn> like the command?
<squinn> is tsclient as herve said
<DanielN> thanks :)
<bddebian> Only 316 bugs.  Bah, I'll have those done by the end of the week.. ;-P
<ogra> squinn, and this package is newer in debian too ?
<ogra> squinn, then we just can sync it... else poke the debian maintainer or help him wth updating the debian package
<therning> hi all!
<squinn> ogra, i'll check
<therning> I have a question about bug reporting on a universe package in Ubuntu, anyone around who might be able to answer?
<squinn> packages.debian.org
<squinn> right?
<ogra> squinn, yep
<ogra> therning, shoot
<squinn> ogra, the old version still exists in debian unstable
<therning> ogra, is reporting it in Malone enough or should I do something more? (e.g. send a mail to the Debian maintainer, or to a mailing list, or something.)
<ogra> squinn, so mail the maintainer in debian and offer to help updating, or if you dont like that, pick a package that isnt packed yet
<mort_> bddebian: oh no, that's terrible! why does #d-d hate you?
<ogra> therning, malone should be enough
<bddebian> Hello therning
<bddebian> mort_: Because I'm a PITA :-)
<therning> ogra, ok, cool... I've uploaded modified a package that solves the bugs as well, which I've noted in the bug reports... the packages are for Hoary though
<squinn> ogra, mailing the Ubuntu maintainer, correct?
<squinn> not Debian
<therning> bddebian, hi!
<ogra> squinn, nope, debian
<mort_> bddebian: maybe you should change something on you... nobody likes PITAs
<mort_> (although it reminds me off maxican food)
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> squinn, the desired process is always to fix stuff in debian and then only sync .... ubuntu has no individual package maintainers like debian
<squinn> ogra, same guy, no worries
<ogra> ah, ok
<squinn> okay, so let me get this straight
<ogra> btw, which package ?
<squinn> basically most "fixed" things in ubuntu come from fixes in debian
<squinn> amule, ogra
<ogra> ah, i guess that has to wait for the new wx packages
<plugwash> lamont any news on the bootstrapping of freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)?
<therning> thanks for your time, I'm off to enjoy the tennis
<ogra> squinn, nope, but fixes we _have_ to make should flow back....
<ogra> squinn, a newer version of a package is not a fix
<ogra> squinn, the problem is, if you do a fix only in ubuntu, you have to do it again on every update.... which is a hell lot of work
<bddebian> Well it COULD be :-)
<squinn> let me rephrase that then
<DanielN> ajmitch, ping
<squinn> all new versions of packages we get in ubuntu must be in debian first?
<ogra> squinn, so to reduce our work we should always try to get our fixes beck upstream (debian)
<plugwash> ogra that assumes that the debian package ever changes ;)
<bddebian> heh
<ogra> squinn, they _shoud_ be in debian first... sometimes that doesnt work.....
<bddebian> ogra: Debian is upstream for Ubuntu?
<ogra> sur
<ogra> e
<bddebian> Ack, I didn't know that
<bddebian> So for an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd, I would want to rely on Debian?
<squinn> i don't understand what you mean by upstream
<squinn> i've heard upstream/downstream before
<squinn> but i don't understand what they mean
<bddebian> squinn: Typically upstream means the actual package developer
<bddebian> or maintainer if you will
<uniq> upstream is where we (you) get something from - downstream is whoever uses your stuff. afaik.
<ogra> squinn, the _real_ upstream is the software developer who worte the software... he is also upstream for debian...
<ogra> squinn, since debian pulls its packages dirctly from the programmer, he is their upstream....
<squinn> ah, i understand
<ogra> squinn, we pull our packages mostly from debian, so debian is ours
<squinn> and ubuntu is the upstream for the user
<bddebian> Wow, I hadn't realized that there was that much dependency on Debian.  Hmm
<squinn> bddebian, neither did I, but I get it now.
<squinn> I just read that Breezy right now starts off as a snapshot of sid.
<siretart> re
<squinn> or any new release.
<ogra> squinn, and the coolest thing is to get your patches applied at the _real_ upstream... saves work for all parties
<squinn> And then feature goals are set, and it is updated.
<bddebian> It just never happens.. ;-)
<squinn> ogra, lemme try to use a real life example.
<siretart> elma's made good progress today, /me's currently fighting with mod_python...
<squinn> Some of my friends here at the DocTeam have a problem with yelp and gnome-doc-utils that caused a bug.
<squinn> We reported bug at GNOME bugzilla. Programmer made a patched new version.
<squinn> So there's a new version. The package in question is gnome-doc-utils, in "main".
<squinn> Our version is 0.20-0ubuntu1
<squinn> That's across-the-board, from Hoary to Breezy [unsure on Warty, probably Warty too] 
<squinn> Debian's version is 0.1.3-3
<DanielN> hrmpf
<squinn> and that version's only available in sid
<squinn> er sarge*
<squinn> sorry, sarge
<plugwash> squinn sarge is now stable btw
<bddebian> ogra: How do you differentiate yourself from Debian then?
<plugwash> its etch and sid you wan't to be looking at for debians current stuff
<ogra> bddebian, with the patches we do... there is a lot of stuff where things did/couldnt flow back
<squinn> i know that, plugwash
<ogra> bddebian, but you will se a lot of our stuff in etch
<bddebian> ogra: So if you patch a Debian package, do you try to get them to apply the patch first and then re-package, or just add an "Ubuntu" patch?
<squinn> 1.232 is latest version.
<squinn> That brings up my dilemma.
<ogra> bddebian, that would take to long, we apply it to our package...
<DanielN> hrmpf
<ogra> bddebian, but then offer it to the DD to add it to his package
<ogra> so if we are lucky, he accepts hem and we dont have to care in the next version
<bddebian> ogra: Well maybe I'm just thinking about it from the GNU/Hurd perspective but it's usually "interesting" to try to get patches applied. :-)
<ogra> bddebian, yes, sadly...
<squinn> .2.0.1 is in debian unstable hence why we have it in our main
<squinn> [we have 2.0.0-ubuntu1 which i can basically say is pretty much the same thing] 
<ogra> bddebian, but a major part actually flows back... gnome, xorg etc
<ogra> bddebian, mostly through the fact that the DD also works for the ubuntu packages
<bddebian> ogra: OK, so let me see if I get this straight.  I get foo-0.1 from Debian.  I make some patches for Ubuntu and make foo-0.1ubuntu1.  Debian does whatever and makes foo-0.2 without including the Ubuntu patches.  Now I have to re-pull foo from Debian and re-test/patch
<bddebian> ?
<ogra> yep, sadly...
<ogra> most of the patches szill apply... but not all
* bddebian needs to re-think MOTU aspirations.. :-)
<ogra> still even
<siretart> can anyone recommend a neat mod-python template engine?
<siretart> this psp stuff sucks
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<ivoks> ogra: ping
<ivoks> bddebian: hey, feeling better today? :)
<bddebian> Better than what? :-)
<ivoks> bddebian: better than "why doesn't anyone like me?"
<ivoks> :)
<ogra> ivoks, qong
<bddebian> ivoks: Oh, I already know the answer to that. :-)
<ivoks> ogra: is it ok if I start doing somethin with LDAP?
<ivoks> ogra: and what is ContentFiltering? Squid based?
<ivoks> ogra: (i'm talking about edubuntu :)
<bddebian> ogra: So what is the benefit of MOTU vs. DD?  If I became a DD, I would be helping Ubuntu as much as/more than being an MOTU??
<tseng> bddebian: it takes a very long time to become a dd
<bddebian> I know
<tseng> but it would probably help more
<bddebian> That was more of a philosophical question
<tseng> if you were interesting in sponsoring packages
<tseng> i guess
<bddebian> Well I have a few packages.  Problem is some of the attitudes that have invaded Debian (In my opinion anyway)
<ogra> ivoks, i undestood ;)
<squinn> ogra, so what do i do?
<squinn> send this fixed package to debian or ubuntu?
<tseng> siretart: are we calling it grover yet? :P
<bddebian> squinn: Both?
<ogra> ivoks, the ldap stuff is main.... leave it to mdz, but for content filtering we could really need ideas
<herve> hi ivoks!
<ivoks> herve: hi :)
<herve> long time not seen :-)
<squinn> bddebian, wouldn't debian put it in first and then we get it downstream from them?
<siretart> tseng: current work name is revu, but I like elma :) - grover is also a good choice
<ivoks> ogra: i tought creating ldap scheme for openldap, as a aditional package
<ivoks> herve: yeah.. what's up? :)
* grover does a dance
<tseng> hah
<herve> ivoks: job pressure
<squinn> hahaha
<herve> difficult ending to a project
<tseng> wow
<ogra> bddebian, yes, but in debian you are a individual maintainer, you _own_ a package, its hard to drop it it takes ages to become DD etc... in MOTU you can touch every package (ok, we have preferred ones too but still..) and its all teamwork
<ivoks> herve: i know the feeling :/
<ogra> bddebian, the models are quite different
<ogra> squinn, talk to the maintainer
<squinn> debian or ubuntu? lol
<ogra> squinn, (debian)
<squinn> they're different this time
<squinn> alright
<squinn> what should i do?
<squinn> just send source or..
<siretart> bddebian: I'd also consider that the atmosphere and the teamwork is the main difference from debian. from a developers point of view
<ivoks> ogra: contentfiltering can be done via squidguard and l7filter, depending how strong filtering you want
<ogra> squinn, first mail him and tell him what you did
<squinn> i didn't do anything yet, though, ogra
<ogra> ivoks, but how reliable is that, i heard awful stories
<ogra> squinn, ...or plan to do
<ivoks> ogra: about? squidguard?
<ogra> ivoks, yep
<ivoks> well... it's based on couple of things
<squinn> ok ogra
<ivoks> filters by word in URL
<ivoks> or by URL
<squinn> what do i plan to do, ogra?
<ivoks> so, you have total control... only it's hard do type them all :/
<squinn> i'm so confused. all i want to do is update this package for breezy
<ogra> squinn, then tell it the debian maintainer, ask him if he can update, so we can sync
<squinn> okay..
<squinn> then my whole major question
<ivoks> ogra: i would love to come to summit, but money and time are problem :)
<squinn> what in the name of any-spiritual-being-you-want does a MOTU do?, ogra
<squinn> because if a debian maintainer does the updating and packaging
<squinn> do MOTUs just fix bugs?
<ogra> squinn, nope
<squinn> Sorry, I'm sounding ignorant..but I'm just new to the whole Ubuntu structure.
<squinn> Not new to Ubuntu, I've been here since Warty.
<ogra> squinn, we package the stuff not yet in debian.... we _have_ to change things in packages for us you dont see in debian etc
<ivoks> like no-question policy :)
<squinn> But the majority of other universe packages from Debian are fixed by Debian maintainers, then, right?
<ivoks> send bugfixes to debian
<siretart> squinn: and we fix packages with ubuntu related fixes
<ivoks> right
<ogra> squinn, the ubuntu development is: 1. sync all the stuff from debian for some weeks... then freeze everything.... then fix everything and then release.... debian is only involved in the first setp
<ogra> (and in grabbing the fixes for them afterwards indeed)
<ivoks> :)
<squinn> How can one tell the difference between an Ubuntu-related fix and a global fix?
<ivoks> squinn: changelog
<squinn> And then what would be the point if we've already synced from De
<squinn> dah
<bddebian> ogra, siretart: OK, thanks.  Wasn't trying to be arguementative, just trying to understand. :-)
<squinn> ivoks, I know that. I mean how can I tell what to send to Debian and what to fix manually.
<squinn> If it's not in Debian, first, I got that.
<squinn> But if it is and it's an "Ubuntu-related fix", what do I do?
<ogra> bddebian, i didnt feel attacked ;)
<siretart> squinn: tell, us, and we'll prepare a fixes package if possible
<ivoks> if it's changing source of program, then it's debian patch
<siretart> squinn: certainly you can fix the package yourself and have it uploaded by us (after reviewing, of course)
<ivoks> if it's adding .desktop or icons, then it's debian patch
<herve> ogra, for a newly approved NEW package,
<herve> I upload it and bother elmo?
<squinn> siretart, right.
* DanielN is making a bolognese right now :))
<DanielN> ratatatataratatata :D
<tseng> herve: elmo is automated, you dont usually need to bother him.
<herve> hmmmm
<ogra> herve, if you had your three reviews, just upload
<herve> yoohoo!
<DanielN> :)
<herve> hi tseng by the way!
<DanielN> go for it herve
<ogra> herve, elmo comes back to you if he still finds errors
<tseng> hi herve
<squinn> ivoks, what makes an ubuntu patch then?
<ogra> herve, (which absolutely shouldnt be the case after three reviews)
<DanielN> ;>
<ivoks> squinn: for example, we use sudo, not su
<ivoks> squinn: so if you change startup to use sudo, it's ubuntu patch
<ivoks> squinn: if you compile it to work with xorg, instead with xfree, then it's ubuntu patch
<ivoks> squinn: you will see differences with time..
<squinn> ahhhhhh i got it, ivoks
<herve> ogra, if the package haven't regressed since I last review it, it won't!
<ogra> herve, ?? but you had your 3 cross reviews ?
<herve> and yes, that's still the package I reviewed a week ago
<squinn> hm, i can't find the source
<herve> ogra, yes, I'm the third one
<ogra> oki
<herve> I had a last whine
<herve> now fixed
<ogra> herve, go ahead
<herve> well, whine, the md5sums of the tarballs mismatched
<siretart> hm, looks like this mod-python stuff is more complicated then I thought.. hmmhmm
<squinn> yeah, i can't find the source
<squinn> yaknow why?
<squinn> it's not released yet hah
<bddebian> Pull it from "upstream" ;-P
<tseng> what happened to breezy-changes?
<squinn> bddebian, I'm talking to the upstream of the upstream right now.
<bddebian> squinn: :-)
<squinn> How often do we sync with debian?
<squinn> Once at beginning of each release?
<siretart> squinn: permanently until UpstreamVersionFreeze
<siretart> squinn: see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/2005-June/thread.html for syncs this month
<squinn> siretart, so whenever a new version or fix of a pkg ubuntu has goes into debian, it auto-syncs the package into our repos?
<siretart> squinn: it goes only the debian -> ubuntu direction, yes
<squinn> oooh that's cool
<bddebian> ooohhh, ahhhh
<tseng> ogra: what is the malone move date again?
<ogra> i think around 6th of july ?
<tseng> hm
<tseng> i wonder if he pushed my changes yet
<tseng> *looks*
<tseng> no
<tseng> (everyone should still be giving bradb feedback)
<bradb> tseng: which changes are you referring to? i'm hacking on the bug page right now based on some of the convo we had. i think you guys'll like it.
<tseng> bradb: mostly the hard-to-find assignment, and the less useful stuff hogging up Actions
<tseng> good news
<Goshawk> hi
<tseng> hi
<bradb> tseng: yep, that's exactly what i'm working on. haven't yet figured out how best to tackle the how-to-assign thing, but fully understand the confusion you and others experience (and I would too. :)
<tseng> bradb: i actually found a harder-to-use tracker :P
<herve> see you later dudes
<tseng> I literally gave up before i figured out how to file a bug
<siretart> cu herve
<bradb> tseng: whoa
* tseng has low tolerance for busy ui's
<tseng> luckily malone doesnt suffer much from that
<bradb> me too. trying to keep the fluff to a minimum in the bug UIs in Malone. doesn't take much to wind up with portlet graffiti
<bradb> so, you guys gotta keep giving me the feedback. ;) it's really useful/fascinating to listen to what goes through a Malone user's mind.
<bradb> if anybody else wants to schedule a user testing session with me, just let me know
<tseng> ill do another one after you push what you are working on now
<bradb> yeah, that'd be cool
<tseng> see how much I can confuse myself
<Goshawk> how to add a package to the universe repo?
<tseng> Goshawk: post a link to your debian sources on MOTUNewPackages on the wiki
<Goshawk> and... how to become a universe packager?
<tseng> read links starting from MOTU page
<tseng> like MOTURecruitment
<ogra> Goshawk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<Goshawk> thanks
<Goshawk> and... last question.. what about a package that is in the hoary universe repo that is very old and should be upgraded (already mailed the maintainer but got no responce)?
<tseng> you cant update hoary
<tseng> its released
<Goshawk> yes... i think for breezy, because the same package was in warty and hoary and on breezy it should be upgraded
<tseng> well update it and put the package on MOTUToReview I think it is
<Goshawk> thanks for your answers
<tseng> no problems
<ajmitch> tseng: RFP & ITP comparisons won't be as easy as I thought
<tseng> ajmitch: :(
<ajmitch> trying to match names
<ajmitch> they'll be similar, but not the same
<tseng> it might be easier when we sync to malone?
<DanielN> could someone teach me in providing an ITP in debians bugtracker ?
<ajmitch> DanielN: reportbug -B debian wnpp
<DanielN> ahhh ajmitch is around
<DanielN> :)
<ajmitch> it gives you options for ITP & RFP
<DanielN> ok thanks
<ajmitch> not for long, I'm meant to be at work in a few minutes :)
<DanielN> ok
<bddebian> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> btw, trying to ping me at 5 or 6am is unproductive ;)
<DanielN> but what about sigcx or something
<ajmitch> tseng: probably, 90% of packages should be fine I think
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<DanielN> ajmitch, could you upload it then..  by time
<DanielN> :=
<ajmitch> DanielN: still got to extract the patch from the *evil* upstream source
<ajmitch> preprocessing c++ template code with m4 is not nice
* pvaneynd_ wonders why he loses his connection after asing a question...
<ajmitch> hi bddebian
<DanielN> argh :/
<plugwash> lamont any news on the bootstrapping of freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)?
<pvaneynd_> Hello, so if I understand the UpstreamVersionFreeze idea correctly, as debian maintainer I just have to aim to have a reasonable stable version in sid at the 6th. Then it gets sucked into breezy and is frozen except for bugfixes. To get changes into the frozen universe version I need to go through the MOTU. Correct?
<ajmitch> DanielN: so I'll probably have it uploaded in a few hours
<ajmitch> pvaneynd_: yes, or we can request a sync from elmo
<ajmitch> universe freezes aren't nearly as strict as main
<siretart> pvaneynd_: we have a sync queue after UpstreamFreeze, which is handled manually.
<DanielN> ajmitch, cool.. then i can work on my lib :)
<pvaneynd_> Great. I expect few changes anyway as I go offline from the 6th (great timing). This brings me to my next question: in the community meeting there was a mention of MOTUTeam requirements. Are they different from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto ?
<siretart> pvaneynd_: well, I don't think we have any real requirements for founding MOTUTeams. If you want to found a team, then do some work and create a wiki page. and, of course, talk to us :)
<ajmitch> afaik, they should be similar - teams don't have own mailing lists
<pvaneynd_> Ok. I think I understand the process a little better. I'll try to find the gcc-4 problems sbcl has... Thanks.
<ivoks> :)
* bddebian starts his Ubuntu GNU/Hurd team..
<bddebian> :-)
<siretart> bddebian: wooohoo :)
<ivoks> :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> If they are scared of text, they should really reconsider meaning of life.
<ajmitch> ivoks?
<ivoks> ubuntu-users
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> some context would have been nice :)
<ivoks> apparently, no splash boot is scaring people :)
<ivoks> so this is my comment :)
<ajmitch> of course it's scary
<ivoks> it isn't
<ivoks> it just needs few colors
<ogra> siretart, a MOTU team must be led by a MOTU, thats the only requirement
<ajmitch> I've seen people on windows be confused by an icon being moved on their desktop
<ivoks> bringing framebuffer will bring lots of problems
<ivoks> ajmitch: good one :)
<ajmitch> bbl
<siretart> ogra: oh, yes, but nothing hinders even a non MOTU having fun doing stuff :)
<ogra> siretart, yes... but he should try either to become a MOTU or to find one for uploads ;)
<tseng> ajmitch: thats my mom
<tseng> ajmitch: she hates moved icons
<ivoks> hi doko :)
<lesliev> yoyoyo
<doko> ivoks: hi
<ajmitch> DanielN_atw: I think I've got sigcx patched from arch, testing build now
<\sh> re guys
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<siretart> HA!
<\sh> ajmitch: DanielN_atw poke you ? :)
* siretart seems to win over mod-python.. (dogfight is going on)
<ajmitch> \sh: several times, when I was nowhere near awake ;)
<bddebian> heh
<\sh> ajmitch: good ;)
<ajmitch> \sh: it's still a matter of trying to pull fixes from arch for that one
<\sh> ajmitch: what about a new version?
<\sh> or using the version directly out of the VS?
<ajmitch> the new version is the one in arch, in development, unreleased
<\sh> ajmitch: hmm...try to build it? after all, we can release a <release version>+cvs<date>-0ubuntu1 or something...
<ajmitch> \sh: that's a *maybe* :)
<ajmitch> the upstream developer is the debian maintainer
<ajmitch> we'd have to check that it's still API-compatible for libyehia to use
<ajmitch> good news is that it builds now
<\sh> ajmitch: strike :)
<ajmitch> only had to patch 3 files, after using m4 :)
<\sh> ogra: should I name the team: MOTUIM or MOTUXMPP or MOTUJabber ?
<ogra> hmm
<\sh> xmpp is the xml stream protocol behind jabber
<ogra> i wouldnt pick a particular app/protocol name
<\sh> but I like IM, cause we can be responsible for all clients as well
<ogra> yep
<ogra> and you can always have subteams
<\sh> hmmm.MOTUIV is also free
<ogra> MOTU4 ?
<ajmitch> more people recognise jabber than xmpp, I think :)
<\sh> no IV in veine
<ogra> or does that mean I V ?
<ogra> ah...
* ajmitch should add MOTUs to his gaim list >:)
<\sh> and I will propose an Ubuntu Jabber IM ;)
<\sh> no problem with administrating it...
<\sh> haha..2.0s8 is build on all archs
<ajmitch> you mean username@ubuntu.com ?
<\sh> ajmitch: thought off
<\sh> but only for members or something like this
<ajmitch> shouldn't be hard
<schweeb> hey guys
<ajmitch> you just have to convince the powers that be :)
<ajmitch> hi schweeb
<\sh> ajmitch: jabber.ubuntu.com is also possile,i could handle it on my own public jabber server ;)
<schweeb> jabber is a relatively good idea
<schweeb> for members
<\sh> but a closed one is nicer
<schweeb> right
<ajmitch> bbl
<\sh> but an open one, outsourced could be nice for the NewUserNetwork
<schweeb> indeed
<Nafallo> \sh: integrate it so that you have the same name and pass that's on launchpad :-)
<schweeb> shouldn't be too tough
<Nafallo> \sh: autoadding those in the membersgroup or something
<tseng> hi
<schweeb> wonder what launchpad is backed w/... mysql or something
<\sh> Nafallo: if it's mysql backend, np, postgresql also no pb, and berkley db also not
<Nafallo> \sh: and no public registration :-)
<\sh> Nafallo: that's the reason why I can't host it...
<\sh> jabberd2 has one limitation
<Nafallo> \sh: I know. I've played with it ;-)
<\sh> you can only have one client2server service...and c2s is handling the open or closed strategy
<\sh> i have to frickle on it
<\sh> right now, i have 5 sm's running and only one c2s
<Nafallo> ah, thought you were talking about that it's not in main ;-)
<tseng> most of the launchpad stuff is postgres
<\sh> Nafallo: jabber1 is in main...jabberd2 is in universe...updated it today, cause jabberd2-2.0s3 is terribly b0rked
<Nafallo> oh? kewl!
<\sh> tseng: no problem...auth backend for jabberd2 db, mysql, postgres and ldap
<tseng> hm do we need a jaber server?
<tseng> vs free jabber.org
<Nafallo> ehm, jabber is in universe according to my apt-cache madison :-P
<\sh> tseng: jabber.org is terrible..too many outages
<tseng> whats the advantage
<tseng> I see
<tseng> i guess we could have a directory also
<Nafallo> tseng: integration with launchpad? :-)
<\sh> tseng: and we can provide our own ssl stuff, so the internal communication is secure
<tseng> eh
<tseng> i dont want j random user sneding me IM off a bug
<tseng> i reserve IM for friends
<tseng> its more in-your-face imo
<\sh> tseng: thats one thing , but information that a bug is waiting for u can be a nice pubsub idea
<ivoks> \sh: you again :) with that jabber :)
<\sh> ivoks: sure...:)
<JanC> tseng : then just block everyone not on your contact list ?
<ogra> guys gusy gusy
<\sh> integration also with SER ;)
<Nafallo> \sh++ :-)
<ivoks> \sh: ok, count me in :)
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient
<tseng> when do we get shtoom anyway
<\sh> aporpos SER...one of my goals.
<tseng> $ apt-cache search shtoom
<tseng> $
<ogra> tseng, ask `anthony :)
<tseng> daf packaed it months ago apperantly
<\sh> i build shtoom last time
<ivoks> ok... /me is ivoks@jabber.org :)
* \sh is sh@linux-server.org ;)
<\sh> or sh@sourcecode.de ;)
<ogra> tseng, i think he waits until the audio infrastructure is sane
<\sh> email + jid ;)
<\sh> but sh@linux-server.org is my main :) so please use it ;)
<ivoks> lol, i will setup my own jabber server :)
<ivoks> yay Nafallo
<Nafallo> ivoks: :-)
<\sh> 590 people right now on the server with only one entry on jabber.org and no webpage ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: I had magicalforest.se on jabber before. but hoary didn't have jabber in main :-P.
#ubuntu-motu 2005-06-30
<\sh> Nafallo: for what do u need it in main?
<\sh> Nafallo: problem right now with ubuntu is, every component is compiled against jabberd1 and this is in my eyes obsolete.
<Nafallo> \sh: my serverpolicy is to only use stuff from main :-)
<ivoks> :)
<tseng> Nafallo: i missed spamassassin
<\sh> so on my hoary ubuntu rootie i installed some components for jabberd2 and trying to package it
<ivoks> Nafallo: and you are security team for main? :)
<ivoks> doh.. universe
<ivoks> not main
<Nafallo> ivoks: naah, that's pitti. I'm in the securityteam though :-).
<\sh> to move my postfix+cyrus-imapd+cyrus-sasl stuff from gentoo to ubuntu, I used an experimental cyrus-imapd ;) and it worked nicely with our postfix + sasl implementation
<ivoks> i use dovecot
<tseng> me too
<tseng> its much smaller
<ivoks> easy, fast
<ivoks> and has tons of options
<tseng> i dunno about easy
<tseng> the config at first is pretty bong-tastic
<Nafallo> dovecot-imap+postfix-tls :-)
<\sh> postfix backend, cyrus imapd backend, sasl backend, bind backend, and some other stuff has as database mysql running ;) so I can see everything :)
<tseng> i need to hack up postfix + dovecot to mysql again
<tseng> like i had with courier before
<tseng> if anyone has a prerolled solution, do tell
<ivoks> dovecot(imap,pop,imaps,pop3s)-postfix(tls,sasl)-amavisd-spamassassin-razor-sophos-nod32 :)
<tseng> hm hey
<tseng> i should blog it
<ivoks> dotUbuntu
<ivoks> sounds like MSPassport and .Mac
<tseng> not like mspassport
<ivoks> we should really invent something new
<tseng> its not insecure or evil
<TMM> hey, just out of curiousity, any chance for a reiser4 install option with breezy?
<ivoks> tseng: people will see it as a copy, despite better or secure implementation
<TMM> or is that one of those :"if you want it, implement it" things?
<TMM> :)
<tseng> ivoks: who cares what the little kids on osnews say about it?
<ivoks> this question should go to #ubuntu-devel
<tseng> ivoks: they can piss off, its useful
<tseng> to have a single sign in to ubuntu hosted service
<tseng> s
<TMM> ivoks, ok, sorry
<ivoks> tseng: o'm not talking about kids
<ivoks> i'm talking about buissness
<tseng> businesses need shtoom voip and malone?
<ivoks> "ok, they have .ubuntu, hm... just as MS and Apple"
<TMM> hey, just out of curiousity, any chance for a reiser4 install option with breezy?
<TMM> sigh
<TMM> my copy/paste skills suck
<tseng> TMM: crossposting is not cool :(
<\sh> TMM: wronge place to ask :) kernel is main -> main is #ubuntu-devel
<TMM> tseng, I was supposed to ask in another channel... how else am I supposed to do that? :)
<ivoks> uh, i really want to make ubuntu corporate platform :)
<ivoks> like, synced calendars, localnetwork IM, user managmend via ldap
<\sh> ivoks: kolab2  + jabber + xmpp pubsub + ical
<\sh> or replace kolab2 with hula
<tseng> Lathiat++
<Lathiat> tseng: ?
<tseng> blog comment
<Lathiat> oh,c ool
<Lathiat> yeh it rocks totally
<tseng> yeah tell him to hurry up
<Lathiat> will do
<Lathiat> microsoft is at linuxtag?interesting
<tseng> of course they are
<tseng> they are at linuxworld for years
<Lathiat> well, ive neverbeen to anythign like linuxtagor linuxworld
<Lathiat> imstuck here in asutralia :)
<Lathiat> australia :)
<Lathiat> we have linux.,conf.au, which rocks, but we dont have anythign morecommercial
<Lathiat> altho aparently.. (linuxworld?) is coming here
<djm62> I have a package error: it tries to overwrite a file owned by another package.  I can force install, but how do I fix the error?
<tseng> is it a package you made?
<djm62> no, it's a package I found compiled for (I think) breezy, and compiled for hoary
<djm62> easier than upgrading libc6 ;)
<tseng> uh
<Nafallo> tseng: it's obviously compiled for hoary and breezy? :-)
<djm62> oh, no I got the source, patched it, and compiled it on my hoary machine
<djm62> sorry, should have disambiguated that
<djm62> so the binary was for breezy, and now I have a binary for hoary
<Nafallo> djm62: that's non-supportable
<djm62> Nafallo: against policy?
<Nafallo> djm62: let me just say. good luck ;-).
<djm62> Nafallo: it works fine, my machine is good
<Nafallo> djm62: suit yourself
<djm62> the issue is, the current version of electricsheep (the server) breaks compatibility with the client included in hoary.  the hoary client doesn't work anymore.
<ogra> djm62, really ?
<djm62> the .deb package available for download isn't compatible with hoary, and this guy came into #ubuntu wanting to know how to upgrade libc6.  since people aren't meant to be using breezy yet unless they know what they're doing, I thought it would be useful to have a version of electricsheep compiled for hoary
<ogra> djm62, what does it try to overwrite
<djm62> ogra: electricsheep.xml
<djm62> (just checking exactly what)
<ogra> in xscreensaver ?
<djm62> ogra: yeah
<djm62> I guessed that that was safe enough to overwrite, and it was (it works)
<bddebian> ogra: Whom did you say I should ask about the distro framework?
<ogra> hmm.... it wont be different....
<djm62> this file: /usr/share/xscreensaver/config/electricsheep.xml
<ogra> bddebian, Kamion if he's around again
<ogra> djm62, yep
<djm62> ogra: it is different, because it mentions the version number if nothing else...
<bddebian> ogra: Ah, OK, thanks
<ogra> djm62, it also holds the options, i meant these.... i'm just wondering how that worked in hoary before, because this file shouldnt be in the electricsheep package
<bddebian> ogra: Well my Stinkpad did show up today so I'm installing.. ;-P
<ogra> goahead :)
<bddebian> The installer is doing wierd things to the display though!?
<djm62> ogra: nothing about it mentioned in the xscreensaver changelog
<ogra> djm62, nope, i would know it ;)
<djm62> ogra: obviously I was reading very closely... ;)
<ogra> djm62, i was rather wondering why it is in electricsheep too...
<djm62> ogra: I can't think where the "right" place for it would be
<squinn> hold on
<squinn> ogra, question
<ogra> djm62, /usr/share/xscreensaver/config/electricsheep.xml is the right place, but there should be no concurring files... only one is valid and given that xscreensaver can be installed without electricshhep it should be hosted in there....
<squinn> a user wants a package in ubuntu to be upgraded
<squinn> in  breezy
<bddebian> Hello again squinn :)
<squinn> hey, bddebian
<squinn> and it's updated in sid
<squinn> so how will it get from sid to breezy
<squinn> seeing as update occured 30 April 2005
<tseng> is there an XubuntuX version?
<squinn> yes
<tseng> that will block it
<squinn> ah i see
<tseng> until someone manually merges it
<ogra> yes, it might already wait in MUMs queue
<ogra> squinn, which package
<squinn> "kismet"
<ogra> err MOMs
<squinn> MUM?
<squinn> MOM*?
<ogra> Merge-O-Matic
<ogra> squinn, yes, jdub already poked me on monday about it :)
<djm62> ogra: but if I remove the file from electricsheep how will updated options be available?
<Nafallo> squinn: I've filed a bug in Malone about kismet :-)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/kismet/
<squinn> Nafallo, I'm talking about you then.
<ogra> djm62, no, thats my task... i have to move the new options of electricsheep into the new xscreensaver
<djm62> ogra: not to hassle you, just trying to make things work in the Right Way
<djm62> ogra: which scuppers the hoary version of electricsheep :(
<ogra> djm62, and rip it out of the electricsheep package (or supress its installation if xss is installed)
* ajmitch is back, briefly :)
<Nafallo> squinn: hehe
<ogra> djm62, normally hoary updates dont happen.....
<ogra> djm62, so its up to you how you handle it
<djm62> ogra: yeah, but a package like electricsheep is just the sort of thing that people will upgrade to breezy for then regret it and hate ubuntu :-/  I only built it to stop someone doing that
<djm62> it seems daft
* ogra just recognized a bit panicing that he has not a single hoary installation around anymore
<tseng> ogra: oops
<tseng> im thinking of updating my desktop when mythtv is fixed
<ogra> tseng, poke mdz... its his toy :)
<tseng> i know
<tseng> i tried to fix it myself
<tseng> its a stupid xorg include thing
<ogra> heh... xorg
<tseng> and a renamed qt lib
<tseng> libqt3c102-mt-mysql -> libqt-mt-mysql
<tseng> he is probably too busy
<ogra> yep
<tseng> or would have fixed it already
<ogra> he is
<tseng> i need to try iFolder
<tseng> to sync my /home's
<djm62> one last question...if my package works for some test installs, am I okay to put it on a webpage for cases where someone wants it anyway anyhow?  I won't bother if it's going to cause hassle to proper devs
<ogra> tseng, dont do it... it wont make you happy
<tseng> ogra: you used it?
<tseng> luis seemed to sort of like it
<ogra> tseng, nope, but i know people who tried it....
<tseng> and luis is a sane man
<ogra> thats true
<tseng> i dont want to nfs /home
<ogra> djm62, its a screensaver
<tseng> but i want to have the same files
<ogra> djm62, not libc or the kernel ;)
<tseng> w/o extra work
<djm62> :) entendu
<djm62> (people can be touchy, and I'm new to this, so I tread carefully)
<ogra> tseng, whats wrong with nfs home ?
<tseng> ogra: my main machine is a laptop
<tseng> ogra: i travel with it
<tseng> to work, appt, parent's house
<tseng> apartment
<tseng> abbreviations are bad for non-english speakers
<tseng> we should cut them out
<Nafallo> tseng: rsync+ssh?
<tseng> Nafallo: work!
<ogra> djm62, its very nice that you ask :) really.... but we have to deal with people who backport non working mono stuff and dont ask (or even test it) so i think we can afford a screensaver backport :)
<tseng> ph34r broken screensavers
<ogra> heh
<Nafallo> tseng: ehm. sync _before_ and _after_ work :-)
<ogra> tseng, just install some wireless hubs between your flat and your parents house and you are fine...
<ogra> hey and there is always gprs :)
<ogra> tseng, try ifolder and tell me about, nobody of the guys around me that tested it kept it....
<tseng> eh why is there a buy now button on ifolder
<tseng> it was all GPL iirc
<ogra> only the peer to peer mode
<tseng> well thats what i need i guess
<ogra> you have to buy the server if you want to run in server/client mode
<Nafallo> ogra: you are handling kismet? :-)
<tseng> it needs xsp? wth
<ogra> Nafallo, feel free ;)
<ogra> Nafallo, i have enough on my desk... grab and merge it if you like :)
<Nafallo> ogra: if you promise to review and upload ;-). shall I assign my bug about it to you or me? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, put me on CC
<tseng> ogra: yeah this ifolder stuff looks like alot of work
<ogra> yep
<Nafallo> k. I'll assign it to me, otherwize I might forget about it :-).
<ogra> Nafallo, i'l grab it if it takes to long (i.e. if jdub starts to bug me more about it) ;)
<Nafallo> ogra: fine :-)
<Nafallo> later today our time though. time for bed :-).
<Nafallo> night all!
<bddebian> Gnight
<tseng> oh yeah does anyone use a apt caching tool?
<tseng> if so which one
<ogra> night Nafallo
<ajmitch> I used to use apt-proxy
<ajmitch> which I'll probably switch back to now that my proxy box is upgraded to sarge
<tseng> ajmitch: is that the scary one?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> you set it as your apt source & it fetches & caches everything
<tseng> yes
* ajmitch wonders if X has stopped asking the same debconf questions 3 times each install, in the least round of upgrades
<ajmitch> s/least/latest/
<ajmitch> looks like there's a bunch of opengl games to transition to the new x.org package names
<bddebian> shit, keyboard blew on x config.. :-(
<tseng> ajmitch: hm this thing is ok
<Burgundavia> ajmitch, people on linux don't play games anyway
<riffic> hi i was told to "Step up and package it." regarding musepack plugins for gstreamer for breezy
<riffic> in the forums
<ajmitch> riffic: alright, packaged stuff before? :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Fix my warty install.. :'-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: warty? why would you run that antique? ;)
* tseng runs warty on a server
<bddebian> ajmitch: Because it's the only CD I have handy that I got at FOSDEM.. :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: so how did you break it? btw, breakage fixing is generally reserved to #ubuntu
* tseng upgrades to hoary
<tseng> i guess this is safe
<bddebian> ajmitch: I asked in there.. :-(
<bddebian> ajmitch: Dunno, the keyboard is unresponsive after getting to the timezone config.  Can't switch terminals, cant select a region, nada.. :-(
<ajmitch> fun
<bddebian> No, not really :-)
<ajmitch> and you expect that I can help?
<bddebian> I was hoping..  I want to get to work man.. :-)
<riffic> ajmitch: hah, no
<riffic> sorry =/
<riffic> but i can learn
<riffic> what version of gstreamer is being tracked for breezy anyways? no plans to use .9 ?
<ajmitch> anyone around to help riffic out? I'm at work at the moment
<ajmitch> riffic: whatever is in debian, .9 won't be API/ABI stable until 0.10, afaik
<tseng> well fluendo is going to work 100% on .9
<tseng> so it will go fast
<tseng> they have 4 or 5 guys
<riffic> http://www.gnome.org/~martink/2005/stuff/Screenshot-nautilus-hierarchical.png < this looks quite awesome
<tseng> riffic: it looks painfully hard to use on a laptop
<tseng> clicking those tiny little arrows is impossible
<schweeb> tseng: you could always double click on the entire line to get the same result
<tseng> i guess
<schweeb> is it my laptop, or is the antialiasing on those fonts screwed up... r/g/b misalignment
<tseng> im not trying that thing until it makes itin a release
<tseng> schweeb: it is
<tseng> they have a tiny shadow of odd color
<ajmitch> I wonder who uploaded rfb..
<ajmitch> ah, doko did
<dle> Greetings.  I'm an Ubuntu user.  I'm interested in becoming a package maintainer for an app not yet packaged for either Ubuntu or (afaik) Debian.  I'm wondering if I should begin this via Ubuntu or go upstream and use the debian process.  Any thoughts or recommendations?  (I just asked this in #ubuntu-devel and someone directed me here.)
<ajmitch> it'll probably be easier to get it into ubuntu
<dle> Why's that?
<ajmitch> but standards are high in both cases :)
<schweeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<ajmitch> because for debian it can take a little more hunting to find a sponsor
<schweeb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseNewPackages
<schweeb> ajmitch: or a lot more hunting
<ajmitch> schweeb: depends on how useful the software is, and how good the packaging is
<schweeb> true
<schweeb> hrm
* schweeb checks on the status of his package
<schweeb> heh, looks like it hasn't been upped since march
<schweeb> whoops
<ajmitch> ah, good to see ginac built on 3/4 archs
<schweeb> ;)
<ajmitch> broken b-d on ia64
<schweeb> is mono usable on ia64 yet?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I don't have an ia64 to test it out, sadly
<schweeb> heh
<ajmitch> although that's probably a good thing for the power bill
* schweeb pokes tseng 
* ajmitch wonders if jbailey still has that spare ia64 :)
<schweeb> I'm just wondering if when I fix gsf-sharp, I should do stuff to get it working on ia64 as well
<schweeb> if there's no mono, that'd answer that question pretty quickly :p
<ajmitch> depends if the 2 ia64 users want gsf-sharp ;)
<schweeb> eh, let's be realistic... 3 i64 users
<schweeb> *ia64
<|QuaD-> i asked a while ago, never got an answer, anyone using hoary's hula package?
<\sh> morning
<\sh> DanielN_atw: ping
<torkel> is anyone working on/responsible for security bugs in universe?
<\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUSecurity
<torkel> \sh: thanks
<Amaranth> err, was mplayer removed from breezy?
<Amaranth> nm
<Amaranth> forgot to turn on multiverse
<shawarma> Is the MOTU team subscribed to the MOTUToReview page in the new wiki?
<shawarma> IOW, can they be expected to notice changes there and do something about them?
<shawarma> Wow. This channel i sloooow today. :-)
<ajmitch> shawarma: yes, I'm also subscribed to the whole wiki at the moment :)
<shawarma> ajmitch: Wow!
<shawarma> ajmitch: How?
<shawarma> ajmitch: And doesn't that produce a sh*tload of e-mail?
<\sh> shawarma: 27th of june, review day, then we will scare the devil out of the packagers ;-)
<shawarma> \sh: Right. Too bad I won't be available for the entire next week.:-(
<danieln> morning :)
<DanielN> s
<DanielN> lol
<DanielN> never seen before that \sh isn't around :)
<DanielN> hi ogra
<ogra> hey
<\sh> DanielN: it's called dircproxy and i gives you the opinion, that i'm always here and awake ;)
<Nafallo> \sh: the proxy pokes you if you try to sleep? :-)
<\sh> no...my laptop is switched off during night normally
<\sh> but my rootserver is on 24h/30 or 31 days a month*12 months
<Nafallo> *s*
<Nafallo> seems like a similiar setup to what I have :-)
<HiddenWolf> \sh, you should take it down for kernel upgrades. :P
<Nafallo> HiddenWolf: not take it down. reboot if the updates really, really, _really_ requires it ;-)
<\sh> HiddenWolf: for kernel upgrades I will go to DC and upgrade 15 machines at once :)
<HiddenWolf> :P
<HiddenWolf> I've got enough with my one pc.
<DanielN> \sh: is it in ubuntu?
<\sh> DanielN_atw: dircproxy? yes :)
<Nafallo> and so is muh ;-)
* ajmitch hates those packages that decide to use control.in a bit too much
<bddebian> Good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<tseng> ajmitch: morning?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Thanks for nothing, now no laptop for you.. ;-P
<ajmitch> right...
<ajmitch> tseng: yeah, about bed time, just had to get this package fixed
<tseng> ah, morning tommorow
<bddebian> You're hardcore man
<ajmitch> so why have you changed your mind again on that laptop, bddebian ?
<tseng> he wants to give it to me
<ajmitch> makes sense
<tseng> he heard i was e-lite
<bddebian> ajmitch: I'm kidding, I have just been too busy/lazy to send it.  I got Hoary on the StinkPad last night though finally so now I can send it.. :-)
<Nafallo> hehe
<bddebian> l33t?
<tseng> no
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> tseng: nah, you're beyond classification
<bddebian> Of course now I have to upgrade to Breezy
<tseng> hah.
<ajmitch> bddebian: only if you're brave
<bddebian> Totally
<ajmitch> and/or stupid
<ajmitch> or you just want to fix things
<tseng> im both.
<bddebian> That's a fine line.. And you beat me too it
<bddebian> :-)
<Nafallo> nothing wrong with breezy atm :-)
<tseng> Nafallo: dude daniels is back
<bddebian> ajmitch: I got the second StinkPad just to work on Ubuntu packages
<ajmitch> no, breezy has been good enough for daily work on all my machines for awhile
<Nafallo> tseng: bwahahaha! :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: great
<tseng> bwar holy shit
<tseng> f-spot exploded (cvs)
<Nafallo> ehh
<Nafallo> f-spot exploded inside cvs? are there backups taken? :-)
<ogra> yay... libsigcx !!
<ajmitch> ogra: I just have to supress the urge to kill the debian/upstream ;)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> +i fully understand you....
<bddebian> ajmitch: Though you know me, I'm probably too st00pid to help. :-)
<ajmitch> ogra: everything is m4, preprocesses
* ogra has the same feeling for ffmpeg upstream _and_ the DD !
<Nafallo> ajmitch: you might need one of those: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80765&item=4557754396&rd=1 ;-)
<ajmitch> debian/ dir has control generated from Makefile
<ajmitch> Nafallo: tempting :)\
<Nafallo> ajmitch: hehe
<ajmitch> ogra: now I just have a few others to clean up
<ajmitch> tomorrow.. :)
<ajmitch> night all
<Nafallo> night ajmitch
<mgalvin> hi all
<mgalvin> night ajmitch
<DanielN> re
<pef> hello
<pef> I've added klibido to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages for review, can someone check it ? thank you :)
<ivoks> lol, microsoft :)) lol
<ogra> ivoks, ??
<ivoks> i can't belive it! :)
<ivoks> ogra: they decided to implement SenderID on hotmail
<ogra> hehe
<ivoks> ogra: if your mail server doesn't have SenderID, you mail will be SPAM :)
<ivoks> omg
<ogra> yep
<bddebian> wb DanielN, hello pef
<ivoks> that's like... 99.9999% of mails :)
<pef> bddebian: hello
<JanC> simple to fix: deny all mails from/to hotmail  :-P
<bddebian> heh
<ivoks> JanC: that would be revenge :)
<Lathiat> senderid etc dont work in the real world
<DanielN> ajmitch, libsigcx ping :)
<ivoks> of course it doesn't
<Lathiat> its fine if your hotmail
<Lathiat> your system is centralized
<Lathiat> you only send from a set place
<Lathiat> for just about everything else, there is no central MX to send from
<Lathiat> and getting everyone to switchover to that is a) not going to happen, b) not always possible (firewalls, etc)
<Lathiat> so any system like it just wont work
<JanC> my ISP blocks port 25 outgoing...
<Lathiat> (for everyone)
<Lathiat> JanC: right
<Lathiat> exactly
<JanC> so I have to use their relay
<JanC> (or my own server on another port :) )
<ivoks> i allways use ISPs relay
<ivoks> except on university
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> but whatif you own your own domain
<Lathiat> but you switch between 5 different ISPs relays
<Lathiat> and then you goto a conference
<JanC> many ISPs block port 25 ougoing to stop zombie relays...
<Lathiat> and that conference blocks port 25 but has a local relay
<ivoks> i have domain; grad.hr
<DanielN> har har.. had last schoolday today... just the examines are left :/
<JanC> and other spam-worms
<Lathiat> DanielN: har har i finished my exams today ;p
<DanielN> Lathiat, nice.. good luck, if you don't know the result yet
<DanielN> :)
<mehrfachstecker> DanielN: Hi
<DanielN> hi mehrfachstecker :)
<DanielN> \sh, which irc proxy are you running on you're rootie?
<DanielN> (you said, that you're connected all the time)
<DanielN> ah
<DanielN> dircproxy
<DanielN> it's like an bouncer :)
<\sh> but better...but right now I'm taking a nap
<DanielN> a nap?
<bddebian> How are you typing if you are taking a nap? :-)
<\sh> http://dict.leo.org/?search=nap
<\sh> 4th meaning
<\sh> bddebian: the wonders of a laptop;)
<bddebian> heh
<DanielN> \sh, would be nice, if you can provide your dircproxy config file to me.. i'm too faul to type one myself :)
<pef> bye!
<\sh> Riddell: ping
<\sh> access("/home/shermann/.kde/share/apps/kdevelop/pics/kdevdesigner-splash.png", R
<\sh> _OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
<\sh> access("/usr/share/apps/kdevelop/pics/kdevdesigner-splash.png", R_OK) = -1 ENOEN
<\sh> T (No such file or directory)
<\sh> write(2, "QPainter::begin: Cannot paint nu"..., 42QPainter::begin: Cannot paint
<\sh> null pixmap
<\sh> ) = 42
<\sh> looks like it tries to search in the wrong path
<Riddell> ah, the evil renaming
<\sh> Riddell: just checked it out...mv kdevelop3 kdevelop -> running
<\sh> nasty
<\sh> -> #kubuntu-devel ;)
<bddebian> I have been meaning to try kdevelop.  Is it any good?
<\sh> bddebian: jepp..but let us fix this nasty thing first,) without the designer you're helpless
<bddebian> Fair enough :-)
<ivoks> i hate jebber :)
<ivoks> jabber
<\sh> why?
<\sh> ivoks: check the planet
<herve> hello!
<bddebian> Heya herve
<\sh> Ok, presenting a new motu team: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUIM
<Nafallo> \sh: *s*
<\sh> feel free to join ;)
<Nafallo> first things first :-)
<bddebian> IM?? pfft
* bddebian creates MOTUHurd
<bddebian> ;-)
<\sh> *g*
<ogra> \sh, so your aim is to make gaim finally behave sane on the desktop ?
<herve> yeah, it's called gossip ;-)
<Nafallo> ogra: he probably will want to rip everything except jabber out of gaim ;-)
<ogra> Nafallo, _thats_ called gossip
<\sh> Nafallo: is right ;)
<\sh> all b*llsh*t i will port jbother to gnome ;)
<ogra> herve, and what do i do with my AIM and ICQ frinds ?
<Nafallo> ogra: gossip have evo-love now? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, no idea...
<tseng> gossip is the opposite of gaim
<herve> ogra, I just considered the UI and usability
<tseng> and they are both way far out from the goodness in the center
<\sh> ogra: put them in your jabber client and use transports ;)
<\sh> ogra: can u make service discovery with gaim?
<Amaranth> is there any reason we don't have gstreamer-faad?
<Amaranth> i mean, we have mplayer and ffmpeg and such, it doesn't seem any worse
<ogra> Amaranth, DONT MENTION FFMPEG !!!
<Amaranth> ok then
<Amaranth> we have gstreamer-mad
<Amaranth> gstreamer-faad isn't any worse
<ogra> (sorry if trying to fix this f*cking package since 3 days now)
<JanC> gossip can't even handle 2 jabber accounts AFAIK
<Amaranth> or is it just a matter or someone packaging it?
<\sh> gossib is crap
<\sh> last time i tried it it couldn't even handle gpg or ssl
<herve> well, sorry
<herve> I connect through SSL everyday
<Amaranth> damnit
<\sh> ok...what about tls?
<Amaranth> blobwars just bugged out on me :/
<herve> \sh, just works, don't care how :-)
<Amaranth> brb
<DanielN> herve, ping
<herve> hi DanielN
<herve> congrats for when!
<\sh> oh yes...i forgot congrats
<bddebian> For when?
<DanielN> \sh, thanks.. you helped alot :)
<DanielN> herve, is it up already? i haven't seen it yet tomorrow
<herve> I had it in my new packages filter two hours ago
<herve> bddebian, yes
<DanielN> herve, ahh ;>
<DanielN> mhm.. i love my iPod
<DanielN> :)
<bddebian> What is when?
<DanielN> a calendar script.. written in perl
<herve> "minimalistic personal calendar"
<DanielN> very geek-friendly ;)
<herve> it's like I know this package by heart now!
<DanielN> :P
<DanielN> herve, did you tested it one time?
<herve> no
<DanielN> it's cool
<herve> sounds strange, doesn't it?
<herve> I'm not that geek!
<DanielN> i've installed it on my rootie.. so i have contact to my calender from every where with ssh
<DanielN> for me it's absolut great
<DanielN> but everyone as he likes :)
<herve> I have a Palm!
<DanielN> herve, ok.. topped
<DanielN> ;)
<herve> with wifi!
<DanielN> arr.. stop
<DanielN> ;>
<Nafallo> have anyone got ccache-love inside their pbuilders? :-)
<herve> night all
<sebest> hello, i have a question about the motu wiki
<sebest> i've writtend the package for nautilus-share, and i read the comment, should i modify the package according to them?
<ogra> sebest, if the comment is from a MOTU, yes
<tseng> ogra: revu should have a special status for MOTUs
<tseng> ogra: mark us with a little star or something
<ogra> yep
<tseng> and note packages that have 3 starred reviews
<tseng> actually we need more than jsut comments
<tseng> we need to give it a + or a 0
<tseng> we need to give it a + or a -
<ogra> tseng, siretart's tool will solve it
<tseng> ok
<tseng> i dont think it does now
<tseng> but i will trust him to rock
<ogra> yep
<tseng> just as long as he understands the process, he is pretty new
<ajmitch> morning
<Firetech> evening.
<bddebian> afternoon
<ogra> noon ?
<ogra> (just to compete it)
<ogra> complete even
<jamessan|work> shouldn't that be noon-thirty?
<ogra> heh
<ogra> isnt that afternoon already.... technically....
<ogra> but night is missing too :)
<ajmitch> why is DanielN still pinging me about libsigcx? ;)
<ajmitch>  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11456
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> I meant to paste http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/sponsorship_checklist.html
<ajmitch> care if I add that to reviewing tips?
<tseng> oh deinfatly
<ajmitch> time to run to work, bbiab
<ogra> hmm, wouldnt a "make sure your packages are lintian clean" be enough ?
<bddebian> Should be
<bddebian> Provided people know what Lintian is. :-)
<ogra> they should, if they package or want to be MOTUs
<bddebian> Well that is one of the few things I DO know. :-)
<sebest> i'd like to have an advice about making package, how to make a package that can work on both hoary and breezy when the name of a dependency changed?
<plugwash> sebest did just the name of the package change?
<plugwash> or did something else important change too?
<sebest> just the name
<bddebian> afaik you'd have to build both?
<plugwash> i think debs allow for alternative dependencies but it still seems very odd for a package name to change without a good reason
<ogra> sebest, which dependency ?
<sebest> ogra i think i can fix it using shlibs:Depends
<sebest> can i put ${shlibs:Depends} in control file?
<ogra> sebest, you should always use shlibs:Depends, using fixed dependencys is evil...
<ogra> yep
<sebest> and about build depends ?
<\sh> strike
<\sh> how easy it is to code kde in python
<bddebian> eeks
<ogra> nope shlibs:Depends is derived from the build depends
<ogra> sebest, so you should have the right -dev libs in your build-depends
<plugwash> lamont any news on bootstrapping freepascal (source package fpc binary packages fp-*)
<sebest> ogra what should i put in my control file after Build-Depends ?
<lamont__> plugwash: ISTR you were going to send me email or file a bug in the bts assigned to me that pointed out which packages to build with binaries from where....
<ogra> sebest, all the -dev versions of the libs that your package needs
<plugwash> lamont__ you said youd bootstap it but i don't remember you asking me to send you any more info or telling me where to send it
<lamont__> ah, ok.
* lamont__ ponders his schedule...
<lamont__> which package are we talking about?
<lamont__> and I assume it's in debian?
<plugwash> source package fpc binary packages fp-*
<plugwash> debian has source and binaries you have source but no binaries
<sebest> ogra, there is no equivalent of shlibs:Depends for build dep?
<ogra> sebest, heh, no
<sebest> or am i missing something?
<ogra> sebest, shlibs:Depends is derived from the list in your build-depends line
<lamont__> plugwash: right.
<lamont__> debian has i386, ppc and sparc
<ogra> sebest, so you ned to popluate that manally
<lamont__> I can bootstrap i386 and ppc, fabbione will have to do spar
<lamont__> c
<sebest> ogra, oh i thought it was compute from configure.in or something
<ogra> sebest, nope... the packaging stuff is always independent from the source
<lamont__> plugwash: it'd be nice if someone were to bootstrap fpc on hppa,ia64,amd64, to round out the ubuntu family.
<ogra> sebest, and its bad habit to mix them
<lamont__> plugwash: or at least amd64
<sebest> would be great if something like this was possible because with autotools i already defined the dependencies
<plugwash> lamont hppa and ia64 aren't supported by freepascal at all
<lamont__> :-(
<ogra> sebest, yes, and your job in packaginfg is to put the right pieces in the build-depends
<plugwash> amd64 should be possible with a patch to the debian specs and a non-debian starting compiler
<lamont__> plugwash: is it's output elf, or is it C code?
<sebest> ogra, oki i got it :)
<lamont__> plugwash: if you can point me at an amd64 fp-compiler and fp-utils, I think I can probably bootstrap amd64 as well.
<lamont__> plugwash: or a set of steps to do it would work too.
<sebest> ogra is there a dep that give the whoole autotools toolchain (automake autoconf intltool, etc ) or should i put them one by one ?
<ogra> sebest, you dont run automake at build time... do this before
<plugwash> lamont__ i can't say i've ever tried to build the debs myself but my guess is you would have to install freepascal from the binary tarball then override the build deps to build a deb without an existing deb
<ogra> sebest, i mean before you start to even package it
<sebest> ogra, oki
<lamont__> plugwash: of course, the ideal solution would be a bootstrappable fpc that didn't use fpc-specific code constructs, but built enough of an fp-compiler to then build the whole thing
<plugwash> i don't have access to an amd64 system though so i can't try and bootstrap an amd64 deb myself
<lamont__> there is a binary tarball for amd64 though?
<plugwash> lemme check
<ogra> sebest, if you need any stuff of autotools (like copying over config.{sub,guess} you build-depend on autotools-dev.... but only then
<lamont__> plugwash: to the extent possible, I prefer to bootstrap all 3 (or 5) architectures at once... less pain for my brain that way
<plugwash> also iirc a patch is needed to the debian specs to let it build on amd64
<plugwash> ftp://ftp.freepascal.org/pub/fpc/dist/x86_64-linux-2.0.0/fpc-2.0.0.x86_64-linux.tar <--binary tarball of freepascal for amd64
<plugwash> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=315220 <-- info on patch needed to debian specs to allow building on amd64
<sebest> ogra, what does this mean :"please move upstream tarball to <name>_<version>.orig.tar.gz before doing debuild -S (-sa)"
<sebest> does it mean that i should change the name of my release using a "_" between name and version?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> for the orig.tar.gz
<sebest> what is the difference between this .orig.tar.gz and the .tar.gz generated by dpkg-buildpkg ?
<sebest> (sorry for all these questions :s=
<ogra> the orig.tar.gz is the original source....
<ogra> (dont worry about questions, thats what we are here for ;) )
<sebest> but in my case they are the same...
<ogra> the orig.tar.gz should be the source without debian dir
<ogra> and to package it you eithe have to tar the source dir (without debian dir) or rename the source tarball (if it didnt change)
<sebest> but i'm the author of the .tar.gz and i prefer to have the debian folder inside my sources (because i maintain it in subversion), i shouldn't do this?
<jamessan> sebest: you should maintain debian/ outside of your sources directory.  nothing wrong with keeping it under version control, but it should be separate from the upstream tarball
<sebest> and about the naming in the changelog: what are number X and Y in 0.6.4-XubuntuY ?
<ogra> ubuntu naming is only done if you do ubuntu specific changes, else stay with the debian scheme
<plugwash> sebest X is the revision of the package (ie if you have to fix stuff after the first time you package an upstream version you increase that number)
<sebest> ogra what is the debian scheme?
<ogra> sebest, see plugwash
<plugwash> ubuntuY is added if ubuntu make changes to a package from debian
<sebest> so 0.6.4-1 is enought ?
<ogra> yep
<sebest> oki
<plugwash> if its a new package/new upstream version then yes
<ogra> so if your package ever enters debian, we can autosyc itz
<ogra> which doesnt work with ubuntuX versions
<sebest> ogra, i have some problem to make the package work in debian and ubuntu at the same time
<sebest> because dependencies name where different last time i tryed
<jamessan> probably just needs to be recompiled under an ubuntu pbuilder/chroot
<sebest> afaik libnautilus-extension-dev changed between gnome 2.8 and 2.10 or something like this
<plugwash> sebest if you can make your build-deps so they work on both then just use ${shlibs:Depends} for your normal dependencies
<sebest> plugwash that was the problem, the builddep was different
<ogra> sebest, so, to come back to my initial question, which build dependency was that ?
<sebest> ogra, wait i must boot another computer to find this
<ogra> sebest, you can use packages.debian.org and packages.ubuntu.com
<sebest> ogra i think it's dbus that was rename libdbus
<sebest> dbus-glib-1-dev no?
<sebest> i think it now libdbus-glib-1-dev in breezy
<ogra> sebest, that will change in debian as well... very soon
<sebest> ogra, yes but i can't use the same "debian" folder for both hoary and breezy right?
<ogra> sebest, you have to
<sebest> but how?
<sebest> what should i put in my build deps?
<ogra> sebest, but you will need to make the ubuntuX change for te ubuntu package (or just wait two or four weeks until debian changed it too)
<tseng> hi ogra
<plugwash> can you do a build dependecy with options?
<ogra> hey tseng :)
<plugwash> i know you can for normal dependencies
<tseng> "with options"?
<ogra> you mean a logical "or" ?
<sebest> ogra ok i understand the logic but it starts to look a bit like the problem there were with rpms...
<plugwash> ogra yes
<tseng> then yes
<plugwash> i know i've seen it for normal dependencies
<ogra> plugwash, you can
<tseng> you can use an |
<plugwash> why can't you use that for the build dep in this case?
<ogra> plugwash, but in that case it wouldnt work nice
<tseng> you can...
<sebest> ogra the problem i mention is not between debian and ubuntu, but between hoary and breezy
<ogra> since tseng is ahead of debian with mono packaging and they will follow
<tseng> ogra: thats not true, they are ahead of me now :)
<sebest> i've have the same kind of problem between debian and hoary for different dependencies though
<ogra> tseng, even with dbus ?
<tseng> ogra: they are merging our package for dbus
<ogra> yay
<tseng> in experiemental
<ogra> sebest, yes, thats caused through scheduling inconsistencys between the release schedules, you cant avoid that, its one cause for the ubuntuX versions
<sebest> yeah i guess the fact they are using gnome 2.8 while ubuntu 2.10
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-01
<ogra> sebest, debian is a very wide field, which one are you talking about (sarge,sid, woody )?
<sebest> all of them
<sebest> except maybe experimental
<ogra> so its a lag of debian then...
<sebest> but as i don't use debian, should i use the ubuntuX in the name?
<tseng> 0ubuntu1
<tseng> if there is no debian version
<sebest> tseng oki
<tseng> the first part is the debian revision
<tseng> so 3.2.1-1ubuntu1 if its in debian as 3.2.1-1 and you make changes
<tseng> say debian has 3.2.0
<tseng> and you update it to .1
<tseng> its not 3.2.1-0ubuntu1
<tseng> make ense?
<tseng> sense
<sebest> yes i does, but i was using 0.6.4-0ethium1, should i name it 0.6.4-1ubuntu1 ?
<tseng> no
<sebest> for upgrading to works?
<tseng> we only respect versioning from debian
<tseng> not random 3rd parties
<sebest> oki, but what should i do for smooth upgrade?
<Amaranth> if it's not in debian yet it's -0 right?
<ogra> the first debian version will be 0.6.4-1, so it will supersede your pakage in ubuntu if you name it 0ubuntu1
<looksaus> tseng, is there a motu who's interested in music notation?
<looksaus> it would be great to have lilypond packages
<tseng> looksaus: not that I know of
<ajmitch> interested, but haven't done much with it
<looksaus> (I mean Lilypond 2.6 packages)
<tseng> looksaus: you are welcome to get involved
<ajmitch> you'd want to work with the debian maintainer for that
<looksaus> ajmitch, of course, if I were willing to invest a lot of time in packaging skill building
<ajmitch> great, it's thomas bushnell
<sebest> ogra , but what will happen when i apt-get upgrade? if the installed one is 0.6.4-0ethium1 ?
<ogra> looksaus, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUAudio
<sebest> and i name the new 0.6.4-0ubuntu1 ?
<looksaus> is he an ubuntu guy?
<ajmitch> 0ubuntu1 is higher
<sebest> ajmitch: oki thanx
<ajmitch> looksaus: no, a hurd guy :)
<looksaus> I thought so, but he could have been on both, right ;)
<ajmitch> sure
<looksaus> ogra, is it acceptable for me to put something in there?
<ajmitch> looksaus: sure it is
<ogra> looksaus, you probably should contact the guys... they dont have a MOTU to lead yet...
<ajmitch> get in touch with them first
<ogra> so this team isnt right yet.... a MOTU team needs a MOTU
<ogra> else you have no uploader
<looksaus> err... sorry... you mean I should contact the audio guys first?
<looksaus> the have them contact you?
<looksaus> then have them contact you?
<ogra> looksaus, no, have them find a MOTU so their team can actually work
<ogra> looksaus, a MOTU team without a MOTU is pretty useless... you cant upload changes....
<looksaus> ogra, I was supposing that you were the MOTU people...
<ogra> looksaus, yes, but i'm not in the audio team
<looksaus> ok
<tseng> i need to leave my computer before i get angry
<sebest> ogra, what is the next step when i have implemented the changes asked by daniel?
<ogra> looksaus, since these guys seem to have interest in audio stuff, the should either become MOTU or find one who is interested in that...
<ogra> tseng, calm down...
<tseng> im leaving :)
<ajmitch> bye tseng :)
<ogra> tseng, i'm discussing since 1h with him
<ogra> tseng, ciao, relax
<tseng> ogra: you are a champion
<tseng> see you in 20 or so
<ajmitch> irssi is really screwy today - cutting off first character of each line after the nick :)
<sebest> what happened with tseng??
<ogra> sebest, annoying discussion on -devel...
<\sh> uh again a long text
<Amaranth> ajmitch: that sucks
<Amaranth> bass
<Amaranth> hehe
<ajmitch> 0:27 < Amaranth> jmitch: that sucks
<ajmitch> 10:27 < maranth> ass
<ajmitch> yeah, it does :)
<Amaranth> i did that on purpose :D
<ajmitch> but I'm using putty on windows to connect to screen at home..
<ajmitch> which worked fine yesterday
<ajmitch> ok, ssh+cygwin works
<ogra> ajmitch, even without ssh-krb5 ? *g*
<ajmitch> ogra: be nice :)
<ogra> heh, i am....
<ogra> i'm still bound to the CoC :)
<sebest> bye all, and thanx for the advices!
<ajmitch> bye sebest
<\sh> going to bed ...
<doko>  /msg ogra wer hat Dir den Schwanz festgebunden? ;-)
<tseng> hi
<ajmitch> wb tseng
<tseng> thanks
<Nafallo> yay!
<Nafallo> my passwords are changed :-P
<Nafallo> _all_ of them :-)
* Nafallo hugs pwgen for the excellent work :-)
<Nafallo> I'm going to bed. see you all later.
<bddebian> Bah, where is everyone?
<ajmitch> I was at lunch :P
<bddebian> Heya homey
<ajmitch> making friends in #d-d again, I see?
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> Well I AM installing Breezy at the moment..
<ajmitch> great
<ajmitch> dist-upgrade from hoary?
<bddebian> Ayte
<bddebian> Uhm, aye even
* tseng waits for colony 2
<tseng> i need to wipe this clean
<tseng> loaded with crap
<bddebian> colony 2?
<tseng> colony 2.
<tseng> a group of badgers are a colony
<bddebian> Ah
<tseng> milestone builds are called colony
<tseng> 1, 2, etc
* bddebian has much to learn apparently
<ajmitch> yep
<bddebian> Shix, I keep getting md5 errors on oppenoffice.org2
<tseng> us mirror?
<ajmitch> I think I need to learn tla-buildpackage
<tseng> <3 svn-buildpackage
<ajmitch> baz is the way of the future
<tseng> seen The Aviator?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> wait, I don't think I did
<tseng> its about howard hughes
<ajmitch> right
<tseng> his torrets/panic attacks were he said "the way of the future" like 50 times
<squinn> it's the way of the future..way of the future..way of the futuer
<tseng> until they sedated him
<tseng> ya
<squinn> yeah, that was the syphillis coming to him
<squinn> syphilis + ocd  = deadly combo
<bddebian> tseng: Yes
<tseng> bddebian: that mirror is permafucked
<tseng> use another for now
* squinn is downgrading to Hoary
<bddebian> Nice.. :-(
<squinn> any work I need I can debootstrap
<ajmitch> squinn: do you find breezy a little broken?
<bddebian> Anu suggestions on a mirror?
<bddebian> s/Anu/Any
<squinn> ajmitch, a little. i'm used to unstable systems but when i can't add an email account..that crosses the lien
<bddebian> Anyone... Anyone... Beuhler
<bddebian> ajmitch: Is the an .au mirror?
<tseng> good night
<ajmitch> bddebian: dunno
<ajmitch> night tseng
* ajmitch hopes xtla gets into breezy soon
<bddebian> gnight tseng
<bddebian> Is there a list of mirrors somewhere?
<ajmitch> probably :)
<bddebian> sheesh
<bddebian> No one knows another mirror??  The Ubuntu sites and Google aren't helping much.. :-(
<ajmitch> bddebian: try uk.archive.ubuntu.com then
<ajmitch> or just archive.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> (same ip addresses)
<bddebian> thx
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> that may not work, us.a.u.c points to the same place
<bddebian> bah :-)
* bddebian tries uk.a.u.c
<bddebian> Ahh, now nautilus dies
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> how is it dying?
<bddebian> dpkg returned error 1 blah blah
<bddebian> I'm doing a -f install now
<squinn> hey, um..question for you
<ajmitch> squinn: yes?
<squinn> wait maybe nvm
<squinn> yeah, nvm
<bddebian> Hmm, seemed to have worked.
* bddebian crosses his fingers and reboots
<squinn> Okay.
<squinn> What do I do if my dpkg is damaged beyond belief
<squinn> I kind of screwed it up.
<ajmitch> how badly?
<squinn> dpkg: configuration error: unknown option log: Success
<squinn> dpkg: configuration error: unknown option log: Success
<squinn> I can't get anything to install badly
<bddebian> Cool, now X won't start and I can't use my keyboard.  Sweet
<ajmitch> squinn: ah, so configuration stuff, not 'dpkg has a totally broken status db'
<squinn> yep
<ajmitch> bddebian: breezy Works For Me(tm) :)
<bddebian> heh
<squinn> well the file i messed up i got from someone on main support chan
<ajmitch> squinn: look in /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg
<squinn> ok
<ajmitch> did you change that file?
<squinn> no
<ajmitch> what does that file have, and what version of dpkg do you have installed (latest from breezy?)
<squinn> commented stuff
<squinn> and
<squinn> where log goes
<squinn> and file i edited was  /var/lib/dpkg/info/dpkg.prerm
<ajmitch> comment out the log option
<ajmitch> it was something recently edited, and if you haven't got a matching dpkg, it might complain like it is
<squinn> as i wanted to dpkg to downgrade and it seemed to have some problems with /usr/bin/md5sum
<ajmitch> yeah, downgrading dpkg isn't going to be fun
<squinn> yes
<ajmitch> it'll most likely cause a lot of pain trying to downgrade substantial amounts
<squinn> well main concern is gettin dpkg at least usable
<ajmitch> so comment out that option
<squinn> most other files dgraded quietly
<squinn> doen
<squinn> done
<ajmitch> dpkg should be usable now
<chillywilly> hey
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly
<squinn> ajmitch, you're a god
<bddebian> Networking won't start in recovery mode?
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<ajmitch> squinn: nah
<squinn> and/or a developer
<squinn> and/or a MOTU
<ajmitch> just a motu
<bddebian> just a MOFO
<ajmitch> bddebian, as usual..
<bddebian> WTF is up with networking in Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> bddebian: nothing wrong that I know of
<bddebian> When I first installed I changed /etc/network/interfaces and it didn't do shit??
<ajmitch> because you didn't do it right??
<bddebian> d000d
<ajmitch> seriously, your 'bug report' is so vague as to be rather unhelpful :)
<bddebian> Oh, this is supposed to be a bug report?
<ajmitch> no, but saying 'it doesn't do shit' won't get much help
<bddebian> I set my interfaces file up the way I normally do in Debian and it was still using DHCP.  I couldn't set a static IP until I used the GUI interface
<ajmitch> depends if you took the interface down & put it up again
<ajmitch> since ubuntu uses the same networking packages as debian
<bddebian> ajmitch: I tried.  init.d/networking restart filed  .. stop failed.. etc
<ajmitch> and start did what?
<bddebian> failed
<ajmitch> and the logs say?
<bddebian> Oh yeah, logs
* ajmitch thinks that #u-motu shouldn't be another support channel
<bddebian> NM
<martinjh99> Morning all - Do you have any beginners documentation on creating packages?  I would like to create packages of KDE themes for my own personal repo...
<schweeb> martinjh99: the debian new maintainer's guide
<schweeb> martinjh99: it's at debian.org somewhere
<schweeb> or check https://wiki.ubuntu.com
<schweeb> there is some documentation on there
<schweeb> under the MOTU section I believe
<schweeb> there's a pbuilder howto and such
<martinjh99> I will have another look at the Debian maintainers guide - It went a bit over my head to start of with ;) Will have a look at the Ubuntu wiki as well!
<schweeb> sorry I can't help you with links, but you can find them just as easily as I can
<martinjh99> No worries about that!  I can use Google with the best of them!
<\sh> morning
<Lathiat> hm i think im heading towards the dark side
<Lathiat> im becoming fond of kde
<jsgotangco> hmm that's not so dark
<jsgotangco> what im probably using now is much darker
<Lathiat> windows?
<jsgotangco> nahh
<jsgotangco> im using Ion
<jsgotangco> heh
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> can i get kmail to cache all messages?
<jsgotangco> hmm who's the kde kingpin here
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> (aside from Riddell)
<Lathiat> \sh ?
<jsgotangco> ahh yes a krew member *grin*
<dholbach> morning
<\sh> what?
<\sh> hey daniel
<dholbach> hey stephan :)
<jsgotangco> dholbach, daniel hey
<dholbach> jerome! :)
<\sh> Lathiat: cache all messages? u mean download them into a temp memory bucket and forget about everything after the app is closed?
<\sh> or do u mean only the message list?
<\sh> the messagelist is downloaded and also saved in your .kde dir
<Lathiat> nah as in, cache the contents of all all messages
<Lathiat> so i can view them offline
<Lathiat> and online without waiting
<\sh> Lathiat: no..only download all the stuff
<Lathiat> \sh: and any idea if icanset "thread messages" on allfolders by default?
<\sh> Lathiat: w8 i have to check where it is
<\sh> Lathiat: configure kmail -> Appearance -> TAB Message List
<\sh> In the General Options there is "Threaded Messages list"
<Lathiat> ahh
<Lathiat> cheers
<jsgotangco> dholbach, its been a while since i saw/talked to you, how are you doing lately
<dholbach> jsgotangco: i'm very busy with my thesis, an exam i have to write and my move to berlin (in 8-9 weeks it's over :))
<jsgotangco> dholbach, you've been busy :)
<dholbach> i still am
<dholbach> but i'm fine :)
<dholbach> how are ou?
<jsgotangco> oh i'm doing good, a bit boring lately though
<dholbach> the MOTU world should help you get rid of tediousness :)
<dholbach> although... we have tedious work as well :)
<\sh> hmm..irgendwie schein ich doch in ein fettnaepchen getreten zu haben
<dholbach> whats wrong?
<\sh> sorry...
<\sh> i just wrote an article after I read your remark to michaels article ;)
<dholbach> what are you talking about?
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/43-Additions-to-The-Ubuntu-Community-Model.html
<dholbach> what went wrong? i read your blog entry yesterday?
<dholbach> everybody who got a NEW package into ubuntu: file an rfp
<dholbach> i'll have to do that myself
<dholbach> (figure out how that works)
<\sh> dholbach: the first guy misunderstood me :)
<dholbach> first guy? michael?
<\sh> ricardo (the comments on my article)
<dholbach> ah
<dholbach> brb
<tseng> hi dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<dholbach> brandon, how are you?
* tseng checks morning mail
<tseng> dholbach: good. are you done school yet?
<dholbach> haha :)
<dholbach> 8 weeks
<tseng> !
<dholbach> if i don't have a heart attack before :)
<jsgotangco> morning tseng
<tseng> gymnasium ist scheishause
<tseng> hi jsgotangco
<dholbach> hahahaha
<dholbach> fachhochschule in this case, but it was a near miss ;)
<tseng> fachhoch?
<tseng> ist dem "tech" schule?
<dholbach> "university of applied sciences"
<tseng> indeed.
<jsgotangco> is that word an education thing
<dholbach> it's a silly word :)
<tseng> yeah german has different types of schools
<jsgotangco> sounds silly
<tseng> starting wiht our highschool
<dholbach> haha :)
<tseng> i think you graduate when you are about 15 or 16? and can get an unskilled job
<tseng> or go onto a specialized school
<jsgotangco> schule is school?
<tseng> yes
<jsgotangco> interesting
<jsgotangco> im quite interested in the language
<tseng> well its fun, you can just throw random words together into one big long string
<tseng> fachhoch is apperantly something about science. so you get fachhochschule :D
<dholbach> hochschule would be highschool
<Treenaks> fach is a subject, hoch is high
<Treenaks> or is fach more like an occupation?
<jsgotangco> fachschule?
<dholbach> nevermind me - i shouldn't be here anyway :)
<jsgotangco> sounds fun
<tseng> dholbach: :(
<tseng> i would have studied more german if i stayed in school
<tseng> i dont have the patience for this
<dholbach> Treenaks: it's like a university, but it's a more practical, the groups are smaller - i like it better
<Treenaks> dholbach: It's called "Hoger beroepsonderwijs" in Dutch I think :) they call themselves "University" abroad
<JanC> "fach" means something like "skill"
<Treenaks> JanC: *headdesk* of course
<JanC> but not exactly :)
<JanC> "vak" in Dutch  :)
<dholbach> Treenaks: dutch is so funny :)
<dholbach> Treenaks: (you must think the same about german :)
<Treenaks> dholbach: yes ;)
<dholbach> hehe
<JanC> I think "Fachhochschule" would be "industrile hogeschool" in Belgian Dutch
<dholbach> ok... i try to find a segfault in my code ... see you later
<JanC> or maybe just "hogeschool"
<jsgotangco> im going home
<jsgotangco> see you guys later
<dholbach> bye jerome :)
<dholbach> see you later
<bddebian> Hello
<Nafallo> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi Nafallo
<bddebian> OK, thanks to ajmitch, I have Breezy running.  Someone give me a bug to look at.. :-)
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> jo
<\sh> cheers btw
<bddebian> Hello ivoks, \sh
<bddebian> So either I have to find my own bug, or you people don't believe me since I haven't done shit yet.. :-)
<\sh> ??
<ivoks> ?
* terrex dice: ahora s que s, me ausento. taluego
<\sh> ?
<ivoks> lots of questions :)
<bddebian> Sorry, I'm mainly playing around.  I think I do that too much..
<schweeb> bddebian: either go in malone and find an open one, or go through build logs
<bddebian> schweeb: I know.  I was hoping someone knew of some more n00b tasks. :-)
<schweeb> heh
<schweeb> you could work on the wiki or something
<\sh> bddebian: 1. wiki 2. malone 3. cxx that was my way
<bddebian> Well as I try to look at bugs, I am considering an MOTUn00b page ;-)
<\sh> bloody hell, i'm melting
* schweeb sits in air conditioned bliss
<\sh> since I came back from work, me too
<\sh> but this is now riddiculus
<\sh> i need a new flat
<ivoks> hm... nice...
* schweeb is simultaneously at work and at home
<ivoks> kde will do API for wikipedia
<schweeb> I love VPNs
<\sh> ivoks: sure
<\sh> ivoks: we're going on ;)
<ivoks> going on? :)
<\sh> going on with our life ;) and our desktop ,-)
<ivoks> yeah..
<\sh> but I think gnome will also do some wikipedia stuff
<ivoks> linux is looking good every day even better for desktop
<\sh> ivoks: since 4 years now
<ivoks> \sh: sure they will
<schweeb> hell, I've been using it as a desktop for like 3.5 years
<ivoks> someone will do that for windows too :) and osx
<\sh> as i wrote in my blog , linux is overdue for the desktop
<schweeb> (linux that is, not KDE)
<ivoks> schweeb: i'm using it since '98 :)
<\sh> schweeb: i'm running linux since 1995 as desktop
<schweeb> well, I've been using linux since 97, but not as a full time desktop
<ivoks> man, i need to loose weight
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> nice, v9fs in linux 2.6.13
<ivoks> ubuntu should have certificat system :)
<siretart> re
<bddebian> wb siretart
<Lathiat> v9fs?
<ivoks> plan9's filesystem
<siretart> and what kind of cert system would we need?
<siretart> do you mean a CA?
<schweeb> is there anything particularly useful about plan9, or its filesystem?
<siretart> does anyone here has experience with mod python?
<ivoks> highway is done! finally... only 3 hours to split :)
<\sh> siretart: ogra has
<ogra> huh ?
<\sh> mod_python?
<\sh> or python cgi only?
<siretart> btw, current status of revu can be seen here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<ogra> nope.... i dont abuse apache as application server ..... i have not had a case where a cgi wasnt good enough...
<\sh> ogra: but your hwdb?
<siretart> well, mod_python isn't really much more than cgi.
<ogra> \sh, cgi
<ogra> \sh, and no, the slowness isnt caused by the fact that its a cgi :)
<shawarma> hi! I need a piece of advise. I'm the package of user-profile, a new GNOME tool to change your passwd and GECOS info. The first version, I packaged had no version, so I just called it version 1.0, and my first package had the full version of 1.0-1. I made a new release called 1.0-2. Now, the author has adopted my versioning, and called his package version 1.0-3... What should I do now?
<shawarma> How do I handle an upstream version that has dashes in it?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> who's upstream?
<shawarma> A dude called Domenique Tillleuil.
<shawarma> Why?
<ivoks> shawarma: does he create debian packages as well?
<shawarma> No. That's "my job".
<shawarma> ivoks: Why?
<ivoks> hm... then ask him to version his program in x.y.z format
<ivoks> shawarma: url of upstream?
<shawarma> ivoks: Right. I'll do that, but now he has actually released a version with this version.
<shawarma> http://eros.homelinux.net:4000/~domenique
<shawarma> What am I supposed to do if I come across another piece of software with a dash in the version? Just substitute a dot?
<ivoks> The new source can be found here Debian packages will have to wait for a while but as soon as i've got them, i'll post them here :)
<ivoks> he does debian packages
<shawarma> No. I do. :-)
<shawarma> I have an "agreement" with him,that he e-mails me whenever he releases a new version, and I package it.
<ivoks> ah, ok :)
<ivoks> tell him that he has to change versioning
<ivoks> and you can apply diff to your package
<ivoks> and bump version to 1.0-3ubuntu1
<siretart> shawarma: Personally, I'd package it with upstream version 1.0.3, and mention in the changelog, that its actually 1.0-3
<ivoks> or that...
<shawarma> I think that's what I'll do, actually.
<shawarma> Thanks for the advice.
<ogra> shawarma, btw, your em-applet doesnt work :(
<ogra> shawarma, do you know if your upstream (about-me) is aware of this ? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/DotUbuntuRegistrationClient
<Lathiat> hm, is anyone working on that?
<Lathiat> (dotubuntu)
<ivoks> ok, we need meta key for mouse :(
<ivoks> presing left and right mouse key is stoopid
<\sh> strike
<ivoks> win+left = middle key
<\sh> i have my progress bar in my listviewitem
<\sh> now can I drink another beer
<Lathiat> no, you may not
<ivoks> yay! beer
<\sh> at least  I found kynaptic the first time useful :)
<Lathiat> kynaptic seems fairly useless to me
<Lathiat> doesnt even have search :\
<Lathiat> damn these kde people, they have me tempted to switch
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> Lathiat: but it has one widget built in what i needed
<ivoks> \sh is guilty! :)
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> at least the idea how to do it
<koke> hi MOTUs!
<\sh> hoi koke
<koke> are universe uploads restricted yet?
<koke> I've fixed tla-buildpackage
<\sh> if you 're motu you can upload..if it's a new package, put it on MOTUToReview  or MOTUNewPackages
<ivoks> re
<siretart> excellent
<ivoks> i hate ubuntu's cupsys
<ivoks> :<
<Lathiat> IT HATES YOU TOO
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> you just can't create user that will be unable to print :)
<ivoks> so creating a decent print server is impossible
<siretart> how to add code to wiki?
<siretart> whats the code tags?
<siretart> {{{ ok
<mitsuhiko> siretart: I can be wrong but I thing {{{ is for processors
<mitsuhiko> arr. think
<mitsuhiko> ok. I was wrong {{{#ProcessorName is for Processors
<siretart> does anyone want to play guinea pig for revu? ;)
<siretart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<siretart> anyone?
<Lathiat> so
<Lathiat> what it for
<Lathiat> motus to upload and then have it sposnored by someone else?
<siretart> Lathiat: it is aimed to be a replacement for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTOToReview and MOTONewPackages
<Lathiat> ah
<siretart> I dont like the wiki for doing reviews. so I wrote revu ;)
<Lathiat> so as a submitter, i would submit a package ?
<Lathiat> with revu
<Lathiat> and then someone woudl review it?
<siretart> Lathiat: yes, sponsors will be able to download your package from revu, and upload it to the archive then
<Lathiat> ok i can do that
<siretart> great :)
<siretart> pass me your gnupg id then, (as instructed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU)
<Lathiat> hm
<Lathiat> sorry, gimme abit :)
<siretart> n/p. I'm afk for lunch
<DanielN> ogra, ping
<ogra> DanielN pong
<DanielN> what's the state of libsigcx-gtk-xx ?
<DanielN> would be nice if they're going uploaded, cause of libyehia :)
<ogra> DanielN ask ajmitch, its his package
<DanielN> but there's a bug report on bugzilla from you
<Lathiat> siretart: incoming
<ogra> DanielN and have a look at breezy-changes, i think he already uploaded
<DanielN> hm
<ogra> some time last week
<StoneTable> ogra:  I'm working on packaging a new version of drivel (1.2.3 is in now, 2.0.1 is out).  What's the new process for getting it reviewed?
<ogra> StoneTable, are you sure there is no 2.0.1 in debian ?
* StoneTable looks
<Lathiat> seb128 asked for drivel 2.0.1 to be synced from debain yesterday iirc
<StoneTable> heh, so there is
<ogra> ah, thats what i suspected
<StoneTable> good deal
<schweeb> speak of the devil
<schweeb> seb just joined #u-d
<DanielN> siretart, rev is nice work :) is it possible to see the source.. never taked a  look over python stuff
<siretart> DanielN: I can mail you the sources. sorry, no distribution tarball available yet
<DanielN> ogra, The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<DanielN>   libsigcx-gtk-0.6-dev: Depends: libsigcx-0.6-dev (= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
<DanielN>                         Depends: libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1 (>= 0.6.4-4) but it is not going to be installed
<DanielN> siretart, would be nice.. mail it to neuenschwander@dev.erased.ch
<ogra> DanielN did it build ?
<DanielN> ogra, i'm trying to build yehia.. which has libsigcx-gtk-0.6-dev in deps
<siretart> Lathiat: you should now be able to proceed with uploading
<ogra> DanielN i know, i had yehia before, thats why i opened the bug about sigc
<DanielN> ah
<ogra> DanielN did sigcx build ?
<DanielN> ogra, never tried
<ogra> ajmitch uploaded on thursday.... so if its not in the archive you should look up its build log
<DanielN> ok.. can you point me again to the logs?
<Lathiat> siretart: yeh i have to unbreak my bzflag stuff first and its 2am and i want to sleep ;p
<Lathiat> i seem to have lost somethign somewhere and it thinks its debian native:)
<siretart> DanielN: done
<ogra> DanielN http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
<siretart> Lathiat: perhaps the orig.tar.gz?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> i'll find it later ;p
<DanielN> dam
<DanielN> damn
<DanielN> damn
<DanielN> ogra, hmm.. seems that my pbuilder want to fetch the old libsigcx
<ogra> DanielN update it
<DanielN> done it already 2 times
<ogra> what did the buildlog say ?
<DanielN> it's ok.. and when i do apt-get source libsigcx i get the transisted one :/
<ogra> Package: libsigcx-0.6-dev
<ogra> Section: libdevel
<ogra> Conflicts: libsigcx-0.5-dev
<ogra> Replaces: libsigcx-0.5-dev
<ogra> hrm....
<DanielN> on packages.ubuntu.com there is still libsigcx_0.6.4-4 and not libsigcx_0.6.4-4ubuntu1 :/
<ogra> DanielN see above (find the bug in my paste ;) )
<DanielN> mhm sorry
<DanielN> don't find anything strange
<ogra> 0.5 isnt 0.6
<DanielN> yeah
<DanielN> but should it replaces himself?
<DanielN> or what
<ogra> and that 0.6 0.5 replaces should be clear, you dont need to mention it ....
<DanielN> yeah
<ogra> yep
<DanielN> tell that ajmitch
<DanielN> :)
<ogra> DanielN hey, you wait for him :)
<ogra> so poke him to provide a fixed package ;)
<DanielN> so it _should_ replaces itself?
<ogra> yeps
<DanielN> huh... :/
<DanielN> but not conflict
<ogra> since the version didnt change, you have to force it.....
<DanielN> yeah
<DanielN> ajmitch, ping ;)
<ogra> DanielN, hmmit could also be the archive script....
<ogra> seems there is no binary ubuntu1 version  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/libs/libsigcx/
<ogra> DanielN so its probably a elmo problem...
<ogra> (or infinity)
<DanielN> yeah, it's not there, as i said :)
<DanielN> only source
<DanielN> ok then ping elmo ?
<DanielN> :>
<ogra> yep
<tseng> hi
<JanC> jaldhar but personally I don't see anything that python is useful for that perl can't do already
<JanC> try rewriting zope in perl ?  ;-)
<siretart> JanC: write code that is possible to understand 2 weeks later? *g*
<Seveas> You can do that in perl :)
<Seveas> It's just a bit hard...
<JanC> :-P
<siretart> ogra: ping
<sistpoty> I'm off for today... cya
<ogra> siretart, pong
<siretart> ogra: I havn't heard any comments from you regarding revu. do you miss some feature? do you like it?
<ogra> siretart, i havent looked at the latest version yet.... i'll do after my dogwalk, he's waiting...
<siretart> okay
<siretart> have fun! :)
<ogra> Seveas, hey, thanks for the reply in ubuntu-devel ;)
<Seveas> yw ogra
<Seveas> You are doing the good work, so thanks for that ;)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> re
<tseng> hi..
<bddebian> Hello \sh
<bddebian> \sh: Did you ever find "an html guy" ?
<ivoks> re
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<ivoks> hi bddebian
<ivoks> working hard?
<bddebian> No, I don't seem to be much help :-(
<\sh> bddebian: not right now
<ivoks> bddebian: i feel the same :(
<ivoks> arghh.... man it's too hot here
<ogra> siretart, let me see more if there is more, for now i'm fine with the tool and i think its a cool idea, but ask again if there is more to look at ;)
<siretart> ogra: I setup a wiki page for using it
<siretart> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<tseng> wee
<ogra> haha, i still looked at http://siretart.tauware.de/review-tool/
<siretart> registration is only via mail by sending me the password (signed mail please)
<siretart> ogra: oh, I should remove that page ;)
<tseng> so do you have to be a MOTU to upload?
<siretart> tseng: no. you just need to be in the revu keyring
<tseng> ohoh
<siretart> 'just'
<ogra> siretart, could you unzip the diff.gz on the fly ?
<siretart> yeah, there is no possibility to register automatically for now
<ogra> and your demo had the buidlog included, that would be also a nice addition
<siretart> ogra: thats a good point for the todo list. yes, no problems
<siretart> ogra: I cannot build on my site. this feature will be in the next version hosted by \sh
<ogra> ah, great... but we should think about a place in the DC
<siretart> DC?
<ogra> datacenter
<ogra> (canonicals)
<siretart> ogra: I'd love to have it more integrated.  no problem
<siretart> perhaps it could be a part of the launchpad? perhaps that would make authentication easier
<ogra> siretart, i'll talk with mdz and sabdfl about it.... i think for launchpad you would need to integrate it much more with the launchpad infrastructure... lets keep this in mind for v2 ;)
<siretart> :)
* siretart kicks run-parts
<ajmitch> morning
<siretart> hi ajmitch
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> ogra: about libsigcx - the conflicts & replaces on 0.5 were already there :) not sure why the build hasn't progressed to the mirrors though
<ajmitch> bddebian: what's up?
<bddebian> ajmitch: Nothing. :-(  You?
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, i grokked that later, it must be something with the archive or something holds it back for whatever reason
<ajmitch> siretart: great, so you need my gpg/ssh key & a random password for revu?
<ajmitch> bddebian: sitting at work
<bddebian> Joy
<siretart> ajmitch: thats right
<siretart> scripts to automate this are welcome ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: is the password for the website?
<siretart> ajmitch: only for that, yes
<ajmitch> since you could do uploads via scp
<ajmitch> I can't automate something which I don't have any source to :)
<siretart> hm. in principle, yes.
<siretart> ajmitch: oh, thats really no problem *g*
<ajmitch> mentors.debian.net does scp uploads :)
<ajmitch> christoph haas used to hang around here
<siretart> ajmitch: do they provide everyone with shell access?
<ajmitch> a long time ago
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> it's ben awhile since I used m.d.n
<siretart> hm. I'm using dscverify to verify the changes file
<siretart> so I would need a gpg key anyway.
<siretart> that should be a good practice for upcoming MOTUs ;)
<ajmitch> got automated lintian reports?
<ajmitch> I could also hack up something for filing debian bugs >:)
<siretart> currently, the process_uploads script just verifies if the changes file is correct and copys then all corresponding files to their location
<siretart> after that, some hooks are run for extracting the source package, run lintian and do other random things
<ajmitch> right
<siretart> but, why doesnt run-parts want to run my shell files.. hrmpf
<ajmitch> aha..
<ajmitch> chmod +x?
<siretart> already done
<siretart> aha, they may not end with .sh..
<siretart> strange..
<ajmitch> siretart: what's your gpg id?
<siretart> pub  1024D/945348A4 2005-02-12 Reinhard Tartler <siretart@tauware.de>
<ajmitch> nevermind, found it on wiki
<ajmitch> hopefully you got the mail..
<siretart> yes, I got it
<ajmitch> hmm, mutt might not have signedf it, one moment :)
<siretart> yes :)
<ajmitch> you want it signed?
<siretart> would be better. since I need your keyid ;)
<ajmitch> try now..
* ogra just sent a very angry mail to ubuntu-devel....
<ajmitch> ogra: oh..?
<ajmitch> what have we done wrong?
<ogra> ajmitch, read it, not you....
<ajmitch> will wait for it to show up in inbox
<ogra> :)
<ajmitch> can take awhile, I've noticed :)
<siretart> ajmitch: your second mail also did not get signed :(
<siretart> ah, what is your keyid?
<ajmitch> pff, it should have
<ajmitch> 61434dd6
<ajmitch> hey andrew
<siretart> ajmitch: done
<ajmitch> siretart: thanks
<ajmitch> so I ought to be able to login, right? :)
<siretart> with username 'ajmitch@ihug.co.nz', yes
<ajmitch> ah right
<ajmitch> I thought you'd have username as ajmitch
<ajmitch> logged in now
<Arrogance> hey Andrew.  :)
<siretart> perhaps the wiki page should be updated
<siretart> ajmitch: you should now be able to comment any upload
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> now I just need to be able to grab uploads easily
<tseng> siretart: can I maybe hack on the stylesheet a little bit?
<siretart> the advocating feature was intended for NEW uploads, where a upload need 3 reviewers saying 'ok'
<ajmitch> like a master Sources.gz
<siretart> tseng: your are perfectly welcome to do so!
<siretart> I'll prepare a source tarball
<tseng> the orange is a little bit much for me :)
<siretart> tseng: :)
<ajmitch> siretart: got open svn access for us all?
<siretart> ajmitch: I can give you svn access, if you want
<siretart> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu-r30.tar.gz for anyone interested
<siretart> for everyone, hmm. I'll think about it
<dholbach> HEY
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<dholbach> hey tseng
<dholbach> :)
<bddebian> Hello dholbach
<dholbach> hi siretart
<ajmitch> hey dholbach
<tseng> hi dholbach
<dholbach> did you kick off the review day already?
<tseng> dholbach: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<tseng> dholbach: siretart is the man!
<ajmitch> when does review day start?
<tseng> ajmitch: "tommorow"
<dholbach> 27th all timezones
<ajmitch> since it's the 27th here already
<dholbach> so here we go! :)
<tseng> whenever people start coming
<ajmitch> and has been for nearly 10 hours
<ogra> ajmitch, over all timezones ;)
<ogra> so it already started :)
<tseng> its review day in NZ
<ogra> yeah
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> so what shall I grab first?
<siretart> tseng: and don't forget sistpoty. he was here today ;)
<dholbach> i'll start in 20 minutes ;)
<ogra> ajmitch, go ahead, start reviewing :)
<tseng> that is a very gross nick
<ogra> dholbach, its already 27th
<ogra> dholbach, you said all TZ :)
<ogra> so ajmitch should start reviewing... :)
<dholbach> yeah, but it'll start in 18 minutes for me
<bddebian> Yeah ajmitch, do something for once. ;-P
* tseng will do a few this time tommorow
<ajmitch> I'll do most of mine tonight
<ajmitch> since I can't take too much time out of work :)
<ajmitch> has MOTUToReview been cleared of old packages?
<ajmitch> like Unfrgiven's iptraf that was uploaded?
* ajmitch will start with that, I think :)
* ogra still tries to calm down...
<dholbach> we should move all of them to "done"
<tseng> great idea
<dholbach> ogra: what's wrong
<tseng> is "done" really relevant/
<ogra> dholbach, read y last mail to -devel
<dholbach> ogra: in a minute
<ajmitch> some aren't done, but are just irrelevant
<ajmitch> like the selinux packages by trulux are mostly for main, and handled separately
<ogra> i'm really upset... this guy ignores me ... and rants about "universe is unsupported", "you should backup before using universe pgk's"
<tseng> haha
<tseng> yes.
<ogra> grr
<tseng> openbox will totally fuck your box, dudes
<ogra> what a ignorant *censored*
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> calm down
<bddebian> Such hostility :-)
<dholbach> don't feed the troll
<ogra> dholbach, i try to...
<ajmitch> go outside, have a cigarette... :)
<ogra> :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: GREAT idea! ;-)
<ajmitch> ok, lathiat's bzflag has been sitting there, not uploaded..
* ajmitch reviews :)
<ajmitch> oh why did the debian maintainer make it a native debian package??
* siretart updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU with all questions (and answers) I got today
<Seveas>  tomboy (0.3.2-4ubuntu7) breezy; urgency=low
<Seveas>  .
<Seveas>    * Rebuild for this weeks d-bus API
<siretart> ajmitch: I asked him
<Seveas> are we having api-of-the-week contests?
<Seveas> :)
<siretart> ajmitch: he is also upstream and releases for debian first
<dholbach> siretart: an encrypted mail?
<ajmitch> siretart: just because he's also upstream doesn't mean it should be a native package
<siretart> dholbach: signed and encrypted would be best
<dholbach> ok
<ajmitch> since it requires a ~9MB upload for even a spelling mistake in the control file...
<siretart> ajmitch: I didn't want to mess with him
<siretart> I think I have his email somewhere around here
<ogra> Seveas, only for dbus :)
<siretart> ajmitch: ah, here: <quote>Just that I normally do the debian package before making the actual release tarball. For most releases the two tarballs are identical. </quote>
<ajmitch> how very irritating
<ajmitch> I'm still downloading the files to review..
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-02
<dholbach> i'm reviewing bum
<tseng> im reviewing CSS :)
* siretart needs to get some sleep. sorry :(
<siretart> dholbach: I replied you. you should be able to login now
<dholbach> siretart: ROCK
<dholbach> siretart: thank you
<siretart> n/p
* Mithrandir tickles dholbach
<dholbach> Mithrandir: muhuhuahahahahaa :)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: how's the ROCK show going?
<dholbach> Mithrandir: which one are you talking about? i feel like attending at least 3 at the same time :)
<Mithrandir> dholbach: the Ubuntu one, naturally.
<tseng> oh man this is looking nice
<tseng> one minute
<dholbach> Mithrandir: we're having a review day atm :)
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, got anything done?
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: reviewing-wise?
<ajmitch> it's just starting
<HiddenWolf> heh, right.
<HiddenWolf> It's midnight for me.
* HiddenWolf is going to hug his pillow
<dholbach> REVIEW DAY! NOW!
<dholbach> woohoo!
<bddebian> Midnight is the perfect time to start!
* HiddenWolf reviews dholbach; are those pink socks, you're wearing?
* HiddenWolf grins
<dholbach> HiddenWolf: MAN! THIS IS UBUNTU! I'm NAKED! THIS IS POLICY!
<dholbach> man... he didn't get it
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, now you've given me nightmares!
<dholbach> sissy ;)
<HiddenWolf> dholbach, naked nerd is just scary.
<dholbach> hahahaha
<HiddenWolf> Have fun guys
<dholbach> bye HiddenWolf, sleep tight
<HiddenWolf> Go MOTU, Go. :)
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
<ajmitch> hey \sh
<tseng> guys
<tseng> http://tseng.ath.cx/images/revu.png
<tseng> check this out.
<ajmitch> ooh shiny
<ajmitch> looks good
<\sh> strange..after 2 hours in the office, all my beer is blowing with the wind
<\sh> tseng: nice :) absolutely
* ajmitch wishes he could have a beer at the moment
<bddebian> ajmitch: They won't let you drink at work?  WTF? ;-)
<\sh> ajmitch: all my alcohol in my blood is gone since 2 hours
<ajmitch> \sh: you need more
<ajmitch> bddebian: I know, very restrictive here
<siretart> tseng: woah, looks great!
<tseng> im just ripping it off from the wiki really
<ajmitch> my hours are reasonably flexible, since I'm doign 30 a week
<siretart> tseng: is it just the stylesheet?
<tseng> siretart: yes
<\sh> ajmitch: no thx...i will smoke one or two cigarettes thats all and then to bed
<tseng> i think i made one change to html so far
<tseng> maybe 2
<tseng> just adding the header
<\sh> ah...our review day started
<ajmitch> \sh: beer helps you relax & get to sleep :)
<tseng> siretart: ill tar it up and send it to you
<siretart> tseng: great! :)
<\sh> ajmitch: i had too many beers today ;)
<tseng> siretart: it is messy, just a few minutes hacking
<siretart> ah, huhu \sh
<\sh> hey siretart
<tseng> siretart: but i think it alreayd looks alot nicer
<siretart> absolutly!
<tseng> siretart: tseng.ath.cx/revu.tar.gz
<ajmitch> this is where baz can be helpful :)
<tseng> ajmitch: hahah
<tseng> ajmitch: i just did "save page as" in firefox
<siretart> tseng: integrated. thank you
<ajmitch> hmm, bzflag could be reasonably hard to review
<tseng> siretart: rock!
<ajmitch> the diff between the 2 source trees is ~3MB :)
<tseng> siretart: oh, i changed the class of the div around login
<tseng> siretart: class=login
<tseng> </3 the boxes around the form
<tseng> and i changed Num of comments to "Comments"
<tseng> the line break in the th is teh suck
<siretart> tseng: ah, I see. mom
<tseng> man we rock so hard
<ajmitch> looks much much better now
<tseng> the other pages could use some love later
<tseng> i didnt fetch them
<siretart> tseng: please send me an email with gnupg id and email, I'll give you svn access. thats easier for us all ;)
<siretart> and password
<tseng> sure
<ajmitch> centralised source repositories.. they can be annoying now :)
<tseng> is the actual live checkout autoupdated?
<siretart> ajmitch: darcs is also very fine ;)
<tseng> sent btw
<siretart> no. I have to checkout that manually
<siretart> ok, then I'm choosing the pw ;)
<tseng> maybe i should make the header outside the conent div
<tseng> so i can make it full width
<tseng> siretart: can you give me review access also please?
<ajmitch> I need to package something new so it can get uploaded for review :)
<tseng> there should be an easier way for new people to get upload access in the future
<tseng> at least as easy as it is now on the wiki
<tseng> hey like..
<tseng> they post their GPG key in a form
<ajmitch> you still want to have manual approval
<tseng> it sends thema  confirmation email (signed) to that address
<ajmitch> especially if you're autobuilding
<tseng> and they can confirm
<tseng> does that make sense?
<ajmitch> since an malicious package can still screw up an autobuilder
<tseng> er, not signed, encrypted
<tseng> with their login info
<dholbach> apart from some tiny things, bum is ready to go
<tseng> ajmitch: how would we know any better if it were more manual than this?
<siretart> tseng: done
<tseng> ajmitch: if we never heard of the person
<tseng> siretart: you are on the ball
<siretart> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: unfortunate name though :)
<dholbach> haha :)
<siretart> tseng: does a svn work? I just commited your changes (so far, still missing a bit)
<tseng> yeah um
<tseng> how do i specify my user to svn?
<tseng> my local user is "brandon"
<siretart> ah. hm..
<siretart> svn co http://tseng@siretart.tauware.de/svn/revu
<siretart> does that work?
<tseng> no
<siretart> ph
<siretart> oh
<tseng> oh
<siretart> tseng: I renamed your user to brandon, is that better? ;)
<tseng> uh sure
<tseng> works
<tseng> thanks :)
<siretart> :)
<tseng> its checkout http://blah --username foo, btw
<siretart> oh
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> kat, here i come ;)
* tseng fixes Comments bit
<tseng> siretart: first checkin!
<tseng> rock!
<siretart> :)
<tseng> siretart: will this run on my local apache w/o extra modules?
<tseng> hm i guess i have no DB
<siretart> tseng: hm. it needs mod-python and postgres
<tseng> yeah nm
<\sh> going to bed...cu todays morning :) and today is reviewday
<siretart> would need some haking to turn the queries of. Or you hack around in scripts/Comments.py
<siretart> not sure
<tseng> yeah i wont screw with it
<siretart> gn8 \sh_away
<tseng> my method for doing it the first time was ok
<tseng> save the static html from firefox
<tseng> for hacking
<siretart> ok. but I'm off for bed, too - really need some sleep
<tseng> yep
<tseng> cya
<dholbach> how's the review party going on other places? :)
<ajmitch> paid work seems to get in the way :)
<dholbach> :))
<schweeb> lol
<ajmitch> only thing I uploaded was a package you didn't quite fix properly for cxx transition, dholbach  ;)
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> oh well
<ajmitch> no big problem
<dholbach> you know... other work got in my way
<dholbach> ;()
<dholbach> ;)
<ajmitch> etting up libsvncpp-dev (0.8.0-1ubuntu1) ...
<ajmitch> cannot create dhelp file '/usr/share/doc/libsvncpp0/html/.dhelp': No such file or directory
<schweeb> next weekend I should actually have some time to upload a new gsf-sharp... although I doubt anyone actually uses it :P
<ajmitch> simple missing c2 :)
<ogra>  schweeb beagle does
<dholbach> ajmitch: i worked on this one?
<ajmitch> schweeb: I'm sure you've got at least 1 user
<ajmitch> dholbach: rapidsvn, according to changelog
<schweeb> ogra: did it get added as a depend?
<dholbach> ajmitch: that must have been AGES ago
<schweeb> I seem to remember you had to enable a compile option to get it to use gsf-sharp
<ogra> schweeb, nope, but it uses it if available
<ajmitch> dholbach: or maybe not, who know? :)
<dholbach> hrm
<schweeb> only if you enable at compile time, I believe, ogra
<dholbach> did anybody test uploading to revu?
<ajmitch> dholbach: doesn't matter at all
<dholbach> ajmitch: yeah ;)
<ajmitch> dholbach: haven't got something to upload yet..
<schweeb> I'll bug tseng about it after I upgrade
<ogra> schweeb, nope, i think it works if installed...
<dholbach> i have 6-7 packages
<ajmitch> I could upload pnet 0.7.0?
<dholbach> will siretart have to review packages so they show up on it, after uploading?
* ajmitch checks to see if it builds :)
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> they should show up within 5 minutes
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> how can i add comments?
<dholbach> it says "Sorry, no Commenting for contributors"
<dholbach> and i do have an account
<ajmitch> you've logged in?
<dholbach> yes
<ajmitch> hmm, I get similar
<dholbach> i'll at least upload all the crack i have ;)
* ajmitch not logged in, tries again
<dholbach> uploading feels GOOD ;)
<ajmitch> commenting works for me
<ajmitch> grr, patch didn't work properly, needs -p3 to apply
<ajmitch> simple-patchsys only tries up to 2
<dholbach> if commenting works, REVU is LOVE :)
<ogra> rvue _is_ love :)
<ajmitch> oh good, looks like my package might build now ;)
<dholbach> i hope i didn't confuse  revu  and  ubuntu  when i uploaded ;)
<ajmitch> almost time for a debian upload
* ajmitch will be back in 30min-1hr ;)
<dholbach> ajmitch: you could comment
<dholbach> HRM
<dholbach> maybe i'm just in the looser-keyring or something
<tseng> schweeb: huh?
<schweeb> tseng: does beagle use gsf-sharp if it wasn't enabled at compile time?
<tseng> it uses it if its in the chroot
<schweeb> so it needs to be there on compile time
<tseng> YES
<tseng> yes
<schweeb> i.e. needs to be a build-dep
<tseng> yes
<dholbach> ans the package should depend on it, so the user has it too ;)
<tseng> that would be shlibs/clilibs stuff
<schweeb> of course
<tseng> hopefully
<tseng> schweeb: gsf-sharp is probably all wrong at this point
<tseng> the mono dh_ stuff moved around
<schweeb> yea
<tseng> ill fix it for the next beagle
<schweeb> I'm gonna redo the package in the next week or so, maybe
<tseng> they ar edoing new releases of evo-sharp and gst-sharp
<tseng> eh if you want it, sure
<schweeb> depends when you do another beagle
<tseng> a few weeks
<schweeb> I should be able to have something by then
<tseng> well it will be a new upstream at the same time
<dholbach> i'll call it the day - good night
* ajmitch returns
<karlheg> What if beagle could index files on .iso images?  I've got .iso that contain lots of HTML --- magazine archives.
<ajmitch> it should be fairly trivial
<ajmitch> considering you can open isos in file-roller from nautilus
<karlheg> ajmitch, or, perhaps soon, 'pmount' them and traverse them as a file system.
<karlheg> I've had trouble with file-roller and some isos that... I can't recall; something to do with either having or not having rockridge? or Joliet?  I don't know much about it.  I reported it then; it may be fixed now.
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I just meant that the code exists in userspace for reading isos, so a beagle plugin would be fairly easy
<Lathiat> if you could pmount isos, that would rock
<ajmitch> ask pitti about it then :)
<karlheg> I filed a wishlist in bugzilla, and it got marked as assigned, so perhaps it will be done.
<karlheg> It should be relatively easy for them to make it able to do that.
<karlheg> ajmitch, Sure... do you think that's better than pmounting it?  Hmmm... what about auto-pmount ?
<karlheg> I wonder if 'autofs' can do that somehow?
<ajmitch> I don't see a pressing need to mount stuff
<karlheg> Huh.  I guess you don't need pmount for that really.  If all the iso files are in a conffile or central location, a shell script map can easily allow autofs mounting of iso images.
<Lathiat> but there not
<karlheg> Your program, your call.
<ajmitch> that's the problem
<Lathiat> i just downloaded an iso
<Lathiat> i wantto mount it
<ajmitch> I've got several isos scattered around the file system
<Lathiat> if you can read the iso file as your user
<karlheg> If it works, it's fine with me.
<karlheg> One thing I don't like about beagle is the binding of f12.  I use that key in Emacs.
<Lathiat> i see no problem in lopback mounting it
<karlheg> Can the binding be changed for Beagle?
<ajmitch> Lathiat: btw you picked a great package for someone to review with bzflag :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: eh?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: oh, to 'test'? :)
<ajmitch> no, just to try & pick out your changes
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> right
<ajmitch> since a diff between debian & ubuntu is about 3MB
<Lathiat> yeh i need to fix them
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch> due to build evilness
<Lathiat> there was this one thing
<Lathiat> i class was being defined down the bottom of a file
<ajmitch> and the fact that it's a native debian package & the author should be soundly smacked around a bit
<Lathiat> and references from the top
<ajmitch> figuratively, of course :)
<Lathiat> which built fine with g++-3
<Lathiat> but not 4
<Lathiat> but no idea how it biltin the first place
<Lathiat> ajmitch: heh yeh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: i was tryign to figure out if that was my fault or not
<Lathiat> maybe i should repackage it not to suck ;p
<ajmitch> sadly the upstream author is the debian maintainer
<Lathiat> heh
<ajmitch> which still doesn't excuse a native package, imho
<Lathiat> ajmitch: if it helps any, i personally changed almost nothing
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> but I still have to check for accidental changes & seeing what you did do
<Lathiat> jut added a hack "class <blah>;", change some mcpu to march and fixed the build-deps
* Lathiat nods
<ajmitch> the pain of reviewing :)
<Lathiat> tanks ajmitch
<Lathiat> have fun ;)
<ajmitch> oh I'm sure I will..
<ajmitch> 1 issue is that the version number seems to autogenerate
<ajmitch> eg in some files (.lsm, .info, .spec) the version number is the date you built it :)
* Lathiat looks around puzzledly
<|QuaD-> anyone feel like packaging somethign (ajmitch, Lathiat, hint hint ;) )
<ajmitch> and that it has Makefiles in there that get generated... such a mess
<ajmitch> |QuaD-: maybe
<|QuaD-> ajmitch: http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/deskbar.html or http://gaim-assistant.tulg.org/
<|QuaD-> gaim assistant is cooler, other is more useful
<ajmitch> so why don't you want to package them? :)
<|QuaD-> ajmitch: i do, i tried to package gaim-assistant, couldn't do it, no i just don't have time
<|QuaD-> to learn
<ajmitch> have you put these on UniverseCandidates?
<|QuaD-> no
<ajmitch> do so
<|QuaD-> on the wiki?
<ajmitch> yes
<|QuaD-> ok
<ajmitch> since I know I don't have time for making/testing a new package at the moment :)
<|QuaD-> ajmitch: np :)
<ajmitch> hi Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi
<ajmitch> Amaranth: is smeg 0.7.5 usable witht eh current gnome-menus?
<Amaranth> i'm not sure
<ajmitch> today is review day, so I thought I'd check it out..
<ajmitch> & ask you before I checked it :)
<Amaranth> TIAS :)
<Amaranth> i don't even have access to a machine that can run smeg
<Amaranth> i won't for at least a week, maybe two weeks
<Amaranth> great
<ajmitch> ouch
<Amaranth> and my domain expires in 15 days
<ajmitch> can't renew it?
<Amaranth> no $$$
<Amaranth> and no credit card
<ajmitch> ah..
<ajmitch> not healthy
<bddebian> smeg?  Hehe, sounds too much like smegma
<Amaranth> that's part of the reason i like it
<Amaranth> plus the whole red dwarf thing
<Amaranth> and it's 'Simple Menu Editor for GNOME'
<Amaranth> the menu entry is 'Smeg Menu Editor', which is sort of like 'Damn Menu Editor' or 'Fucking Menu Editor' :D
<ajmitch> which should probably be changed
<ajmitch> :)
<Amaranth> no one knows what it is
<Amaranth> except british people who would think it was funny, i'd bet
<bddebian> No smegma is d*ck cheese
<ajmitch> which is why I think it should change
<|QuaD-> ajmitch: one was on there, and i added the other :)
<Amaranth> bddebian: I don't care what smegma is, I'm talking about smeg.
<Amaranth> ajmitch: You can patch it if you want, upstream is staying 'Smeg Menu Editor'
<Amaranth> Unless you can think of a totally new name.
<HostingGeek> I found area 51! anyone intrested?
* Lathiat watches the feds rock up at HostingGeek's place and take him away
<HostingGeek> ok ok ok I will tell you
<HostingGeek> Follow these instructions:
<HostingGeek> 1. http://maps.google.com/
<HostingGeek> 2. Click on 'Satelite' (top right hand button)
<HostingGeek> 3. Search: Rachel, Nevada Tikaboo Peak
<HostingGeek> 4. Scroll to the left of the map a bit (left of 'Little a Le Inn') until you find a round white circle (a dried up lake)
<HostingGeek> 5. Zoom in just south of the lake - note the landing strips and buildings
<HostingGeek> Congratulations, you have just discovered the US' top secret 'Area 51' base. It isn't on the maps, but it is on the freely available satelite images!
<ajmitch> don't spam this channel, please
<ajmitch> it's rather annoying
<dholbach> hi
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<siretart> moin
<siretart> gnarf. there was a typo in the process upload script.. :/  - sorry
<dholbach> hey you two
<dholbach> so i'll upload again, right?
<siretart> look first
<dholbach> and how can i add comments?
<siretart> I think all your uploads schon now be there
<dholbach> ok
<siretart> 78 mails from the cronjob :)
<dholbach> siretart: it gives me "Sorry, no Commenting for contributors" - any idea for that?
<siretart> mom
<siretart> dholbach: I forget to put you on reviewer. sorry. now you should be admin
<dholbach> super, thanks for that
<siretart> admins can delete any comment, reviers only their own comments
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> moins siretart
<dholbach> hey stephan
<\sh> hey daniel :)
<dholbach> siretart: who of you all worked on this?
<DanielN_atw> morning
<dholbach> hey other-daniel ;)
<crimsun> too many Daniels
<dholbach> *snigger*
<\sh> i need to do my normal office work first, before I start with reviewing :)
<siretart> dholbach: sistposty (doing the db stuff like ER schema, and sql querys) and me. tseng updated the style.css yesterday
<dholbach> you guys absolutely ROCK
<dholbach> this is brilliant
<siretart> I'm sure it has some  children's diseases, but I wanted to get a somehow working version online ASAP
<dholbach> absolutely
<siretart> thanks :)
<dholbach> i'll announce it on the motu report
<dholbach> now we just need an rss feed for the comments and everybody's fine ;)
<dholbach> if nobody of you does it, i'll happily hack on this post-breezy :)
<siretart> :)
<siretart> rss feeds. hmm. I'm sure in python this is a 3 liner, if you know the right module ;)
<dholbach> python2.4-librdf :)
<siretart> I know there must be something ;)
<dholbach> *ARG* UPSTREAM! SHIPPING! CRACKFUL! debian/! *ARG*
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | IT'S REVIEW DAY TODAY! JOIN US AND FEEL THE LOVE!
<Treenaks> uh.. Review Day.. where's the HOWTO ;)
<dholbach> it's pretty straight-forward: 1) have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU{ToReview,NewPackages}, 2) grab a random package, 3) leave complaints, slander, notes on improvement, comments on the wiki
<dholbach> that's it :)
<dholbach> oh wait, we're ubuntu, no slander then :)
<dholbach> siretart: added a feature request ;)
<siretart> dholbach: yes, the "old" tag is already implemented in the db (flag "isArchive"). The button "Archive this" is missing in the "actions" coloumn
<siretart> I'll have to add that button and processing. I'll see into it later today. now I need to go to university
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> thank you very much for doing this
<dholbach> and have a nice day :)
<siretart> bye!
<ivoks> siretart: ping
<dholbach> ivoks: he ran to university
<ivoks> siretart: good python book: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Python :)
<ivoks> oh, ok
<DanielN_atw> elmo, ping
<ivoks> so, review day!
<dholbach> yeah!
* dholbach hands out "REVIEW DAY" caps to everybody :)
<ivoks> yay!
<ivoks_reviewer> let's start.
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
* Amaranth knows enough to package, not review packages
<ivoks_reviewer> maybe breakfast first is better idea :)
<Amaranth> plus i'm on a 200Mhz Pentium with 64MB RAM, 56k dialup, and Windows ME
<Amaranth> so yeah, i don't think i can help
* Amaranth kicks things
<Treenaks> Amaranth: Windows MEH
<Amaranth> Treenaks: Yeah, it sucks.
<Amaranth> And I'm stuck like this until next monday or even the monday two weeks from now.
<dholbach> does the wiki work for you? editing/login-wise?
<dholbach> thesaltydog: once you fixed that stuff, i think i can give my ok :)
<dholbach> thesaltydog: hi fabio, by the way ;)
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I'm working now on it. Thanks!!
<dholbach> \sh_reviewtime: if you can still access the wiki, would you be so kind and make a note that NEW NewPackages should go to  http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/index.py ? (and drop a link to [:REVU]  for explanation)
<JRe> siretart: congrats for REVU  :)
<dholbach> bbl
<Amaranth> siretart: Does that thing automatically run lintian and linda or do people upload the logs from those along with the package?
<ivoks_reviewer> yeah! revu!
<thesaltydog> dholbach, done.
<Riddell> review day today?
<Amaranth> yep
<Lathiat> ajmitch: howd bzflag go?:)
<Amaranth> no one ever plays bzflag anymore
<Amaranth> just tossing that in there :)
<Lathiat> dude
<Lathiat> if you dont play bzflag, you suck ;p
<Amaranth> Lathiat: X problems prevent my playing
<Amaranth> something in mesa changed or something and something in a driver needs to be updated or something
<Amaranth> yes, i have no idea
<Amaranth> i filed a bug, they told me to use CVS (ha!)
<Lathiat> haha
* Amaranth goes to play continuum
<Amaranth> the only good thing about being on a windows machine is playing this
<ivoks_reviewer> nvidia?
<Amaranth> ati radeon 7000
<Amaranth> i remember something about t_vertex, whatever that is
<Lathiat> hrm wtf
<Lathiat> nvidia drivers are not working
<ogra> happy review day everybody
<Lathiat> hrm wonder whats broken :\
<AwayWolf> Lathiat, running 2.6.12?
<Lathiat> AwayWolf: yeh
<AwayWolf> Lathiat, restricted-modules didn get rebuild
<Lathiat> nah im running the nv drivers
<Lathiat> for some reason the GL stuff isnt working
<Lathiat> s/nv/oficial nvidia
<JanC> official nvidia driver is in restricted-modules
<Amaranth> err, don't you need linux-restricted-modules for that?
<JanC> so that won't work with a .12 kernel yet...
<AwayWolf> Lathiat, drivers are built against the kernel, so if you get a new kernel, you need new drivers, so a new module, or a 2.6.12 enabled compile.
<Lathiat> no
<Lathiat> like
<Lathiat> i downloaded them
<Lathiat> and built them against 2.6.12
<Lathiat> etc
<ogreview> Lathiat, if you ran the nidia driver before, your mesa lib was exchanged, so software rendering is broken
<ogreview> Lathiat, thats normal
<Lathiat> ogreview: yeh and i just reran the isntaller again and its still happening
<ivoks_reviewer> nvidia doesn't work in breezy yet
<ivoks_reviewer> nvidia-glx needs to be repacked, wrong dependecys
<dholbach> the kubuntu guys had a great idea: they use   package-upstreamversion-0ubuntu0.<package-version-before-upload>
<dholbach> that's ingenious - that should be policy
<Lathiat> ivoks_reviewer: dude, you dont get it
<dholbach> installed packages even get superseded by 0ubuntu1 once it's in the archive
<Lathiat> i installed the official package from nvidias site
<Lathiat> which has worked fine for a long time.. seems to have stopped now for some reason
<ivoks_reviewer> ah...
<ivoks_reviewer> sorry :)
<\sh_reviewtime> dholbach: u don't need to have a shlibs control file when u r using cdbs :)
<ivoks_reviewer> i did thtat too, and sometimes nvidia fails...
<dholbach> \sh_reviewtime: it has a lintian override
<\sh_reviewtime> dholbach: yes, and it's wrong :)
<\sh_reviewtime> dholbach: see my review comments for katapult and kbandwidth :)
<dholbach> \sh_reviewtime: that should be used only in EXTREMELY obscure cases
<\sh_reviewtime> dholbach: it's a simple fix to get rid of the overrides
<dholbach> one should fix the issues, not just the warnings ;)
<\sh_reviewtime> DEB_SHLIBDEPS_LIBRARY_kbandwidth := kbandwidth and DEB_SHLIBDEPS_INCLUDE_kbandwidth := debian/kbandwidth/usr/lib
<\sh_reviewtime> (cdbs style)
<ivoks_reviewer> herzi: ping
<ivoks_reviewer> herzi: ?
<ivoks_reviewer> :)
<ivoks_reviewer> not here...
<herzi> ivoks_reviewer: pong
<ivoks_reviewer> herzi: i'm checking your hula
<ivoks_reviewer> herzi: hula (0.1.0+svn162-2) unstable; urgency=low
<ivoks_reviewer> it shouldn't be unstable, but breezy
<herzi> svn162?
<herzi> i already uploaded svn230
<ivoks_reviewer> http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/packages/hula - wiki says that ;)
<ivoks_reviewer> then 240?
<herzi> ya
<ivoks_reviewer> http://www.blaubeermuffin.de/packages/hula/svn240/?
<herzi> yes
<ivoks_reviewer> i can't find diff.gz
<ivoks_reviewer> neither the source
<ivoks_reviewer> or, at least, debdiff :)
* herzi uploads it
<ivoks_reviewer> debdiff would be fine if the package is allready in breezy
<siretart> Amaranth: I installed a hook for lintian/linda. should work now
<jsgotangco> hula is in universe?
<ogra> jsgotangco, old news :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, it in since hoary ;)
<ivoks_reviewer> jsgotangco: yep
<jsgotangco> wow
<jsgotangco> i didnt know that
<dholbach> thanks to incredible herzi :)
<jsgotangco> someone should package mediawiki then
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> dholbach, who still misses every CC meeting ;)
<ogra> herzi, ^^^
<herzi> ogra: last monday i needed to be in bed early because i was driving to linuxtag the day after
<herzi> (where the gnome-people and the ubuntu-guy gave out more than 1000 ubuntu cds sets)
<dholbach> ROCK ON!
<ogra> hmm, wasnt the last CC around noon ?
<ogra> at least for us german
<ogra> people
<herzi> it was?
<dholbach> wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar knows ;)
<ogra> 12:00 or 14:00 iirc
<dholbach> at some stage we should start splitting out the libraries of hula, even if it's tedious work
<\sh_reviewtime> ogra: not this time :)
<herzi> the next one it at midnight, so i might get that one
<dholbach> herzi: excellent
<ogra> \sh_reviewtime, last time
<\sh_reviewtime> last time yes ;)
<herzi> dholbach: yeah, i still need to ping the guy who wants to package it for debian, if we're cooperating for both distros it'll be more easier then
<Amaranth> herzi: You were the one that had to take them 1000 CDs because the 400 they got were gone the first day?
<herzi> we spent 400 in 2 days :D
<hsprang> hi!
<ogra> hey hsprang
<hsprang> am i already too late to prevent you from reviewing th FAI package i made some months ago?
<hsprang> hey ogra
<ogra> hsprang, not if you upload a new one right away ;)
<hsprang> ogra, hmm, i guess there may be some troubles with it that would make reviewing of the old one waste of time.
<hsprang> as i di'nt have the review day in mind i am not prepared, but yes,  i could see what i can do to get into it today
<hsprang> should i just renmove it from the list for until i have a new one?
<dholbach> yeah, that sounds good
<hsprang> done. as getting the new package done involves installing a new machine as install server that was lost last week in a disk crash i can't do a promise, but i'll try!
<ogra> hsprang, grea :)
<ogra> +t
<hsprang> ogra, you mean the disk crash? :)
<ogra> heh, nope :)
<hsprang> ogra, actually, yes, backup was good and now i know to use smarttols...
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> would somebody attach a note to MOTUNewPackages that the page is considered to be a "transitional object" - provide a link to REVU and the REVU documentation
<Amaranth> note to self: when you only have 64MB of ram, don't open 1000 comment slashdot stories in firefox
<ogra> Amaranth, if you happen to only have 64MB, use dillo... or better lynx :)
<jsgotangco> ever since I've been using Ion, things have been very fast on my side
<Amaranth> ogra: Windows
<ogra> Amaranth, lnyx for windows :)
<Amaranth> don't want to use lynx, i'd rather not use http at all
<jsgotangco> how does review day actually work? just review stuff in universe and what needs love?
<dholbach> jsgotangco: we're processing MOTUToReview and MOTUNewPackages
<dholbach> on the wiki
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<dholbach> reviewing NEW packages and make sure they're in a rocking state, before we get them in
<jsgotangco> candidate packages
<dholbach> yeah
<jsgotangco> alright, its time for me to retire for the day
<jsgotangco> bye everyone
<jsgotangco> have fun!
<ogra> ivoks_reviewer, you reviewed ion3 ?
<ivoks_reviewer> yes
<ogra> ivoks_reviewer, did you testbuild it ?
<ogra> its ftbfs
<ivoks_reviewer> :))
<ivoks_reviewer> sorry
<ogra> Amaranth, wasnt smeg already approved ? its sill on MOTUToReview
<ivoks_reviewer> damn...
<ivoks_reviewer> i'm using gcc-3.4 :((
<ogra> oh
<ogra> ivoks_reviewer, in you pbuilder ??
<ogra> your even
<ivoks_reviewer> i don't have pbuilder
<ogra> ivoks_reviewer, use it :)
<ivoks_reviewer> pbudiler means downloading same file couple of times...
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it caches
<ivoks> i should build one :)
<ogra> yep
<Riddell> ogra: what's broken with ffmpeg?
<ogra> Riddell, are you an assembler guy ?
<Riddell> ogra: nope
<ogra>   error: PIC register '%ebx' clobbered in 'asm'
<ogra> tons of that .... on i386
<ogra> all other arches build fine
<Riddell> ogra: it compiled successfully
<Riddell> or does it need rebuilt?
<ogra> Riddell, the new debian package ?
<ogra> Riddell, the current hoary version segfaults on amd64
<Riddell> right, sounds broken then
<ogra> yep
<ogra> but until this debian package i needed to patch a lot to make it even compile on amd64... at least this is solved with the new version, but i386 still breaks
<ajmitch> hi all
<ajmitch> what's new?
<ivoks> grrrr
<ivoks> pbuilder sucks :)
<ajmitch> jeff! :)
<ajmitch> hi mpt
<mpt> hi ajmitch, I have a simple question
<mpt> All the games I've installed from universe have no sound
<jbailey> andrew!
<mpt> Is that the sort of thing MOTU maintainers have the capacity to fix?
<mpt> or is it Too Hard?
<ajmitch> if we could track it down.. it's possibly the sound server you're using
<ajmitch> I stay away frmo sound issues mainly
<mpt> ajmitch: not to get all jwz on yo ass, but presumably if I switched from whatever sound server I'm using now to whatever one a given game needs, sound in everything else would stop working, right?
<ajmitch> I wouldn't know :)
<ajmitch> I don't have any soundserver & everything just works fine
<niran> mpt, installing polypaudio as an esd replacement usually fixes sound problems for me
<ivoks> i'm bad reviewer :(
<niran> mpt, well, it replaces them wth less annoying problems, like not having a gnome startup sound
<mpt> heh
<mpt> Help, I'm stuck in the 1980s
<ivoks> :)
<mpt> So, should I report bugs about that for universe packages, or not bother?
<ivoks> i don't use soundserver and everything is ok
<niran> ivoks, is that with dmix?
<ivoks> yes
<niran> ah.
<ivoks> but dmix isn't that good
<ajmitch> mpt: might as well
<mpt> ok, ta
<ajmitch> better to have an issue that we can close, imho
<ivoks> pardon, dmix is ok :)
<ivoks> xine wouldn't start anymore :(
<ivoks> yay! xine, muine and rhythmbox in same time
<ogra> ajmitch, libsigcx should appear soon in the archive (it had NEW binaries)
<ogra> ajmitch, in other news we have REVIEW DAY today !! :)
<ajmitch> I'm surprised that they didn't check the NEW queue previously :)
<ajmitch> and I know, I started reviewing about 12 hours ago ;)
<ajmitch> took a look at bzflag, screamed in horror & searched for the nearest blunt instrument
<ajmitch> (not due to Lathiat's changes, of course)
* Lathiat hides
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> you had to pick the ugliest package..
<Lathiat> sorry ;p
<Lathiat> ahah
<Lathiat> i got some time off, i should pet somemore
<Lathiat> any recommendations for less ugly packages? ;)
* ivoks is still building pbuilder enviorment :(
<ajmitch> take a look at the list of packages to merge
<ajmitch> I should run up a list again for people to check :)
<Lathiat> are you saying its  not possible to have an uglier package? ;)
<ajmitch> oh no, it's certainly possible
<ajmitch> since we are pulling from debian
<Lathiat> :)
<ajmitch> I should build better python code
<ajmitch> this script takes an age to run
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> ajmitch: dont knwo anything about python-apt by any chance?
<sladen> ajmitch: try: import psyco
<ajmitch> sladen: yeah, might work
<ajmitch> Lathiat: I know a bit
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.dhis.org/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/source_list.20050627.2350
<Lathiat> Just wondering if I can use it to access a package cache that is not the one on the system
<ajmitch> this is a list of source package comparisons
<ajmitch> yeah, by setting the apt configuration
<ajmitch> I don't think there's another way, you might want to ask mvo when he's around
<Lathiat> sweet
<ajmitch> but iirc that was what he told me :)
<Lathiat> ajmitch: i assume i can do that from within the script tho right?
<Lathiat> looks like your tool is doing just that?
<Lathiat> ah just parsing package lists
<Lathiat> i suppose i could do that instead
<ajmitch> what are you trying to create?
<ajmitch> I'm just reading in the source lists, running a comparison across every package I see
<tseng> hi
<Lathiat> an apt-proxy like thing where you approve what updates go into the cache
<ivoks> hi tseng
<ajmitch> in the most inefficient way possible
<ajmitch> hi tseng
<Lathiat> SUS style (people were tlaking about it earlier)
<ajmitch> tseng: btw this tool will also see what's in breezy but not in debian
<tseng> cool
<ajmitch> I wrote it awhile back
<ajmitch> just got to write something to grab wnpp bugs nicely
<ajmitch> I can see we've got our work cut out for us in terms of merges
<tseng> python stuff?
<ivoks> ok, anyone using pbuilder? :)
<ajmitch> tseng: a decent amount, but not all
<tseng> python merges should be easy
<ajmitch> some we can just ignore
<ajmitch> Debian version of xfree86 is newer : 4.3.0.dfsg.1-14 vs 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu26
<tseng> beat up the debian maintainer until he merges it
<ajmitch> they are easy
<tseng> hm well
<siretart> ok, uploads can now be archived by admins
<tseng> we dont care about xfree so much :)
<ajmitch> some zope packages for me to deal out some loving to
<tseng> whats your url again?
<tseng> im at work
<tseng> ^ siretart
<ivoks> siretart: hi
<ivoks> siretart: i can't login to revu :)
<ajmitch> siretart.tauware.de/revu
<ajmitch> if that's what you mean?
<tseng> yes
<ajmitch> so many dholbach uploads on revu.. :)
<ajmitch> ${python:Depends}, python (>= 2.4)
<ajmitch> hmm..
<siretart> ivoks: use your complete email address as login
<ivoks> siretart: i am..
<siretart> ivoks@grad.hr
<ivoks> right
<ivoks>  login for user "ivoks@grad.hr" failed, please retry
<ajmitch> maybe you forgot your password? :)
<siretart> hm. rechecking password
* siretart can login as ivoks.. hmm
<ivoks> hm
<siretart> have you enabled cookies?
<ivoks> maybe i'm typing wrong pass :)
<ivoks> sure
<ivoks> it's pass that's wrong..
<siretart> hehe
<ivoks> hm...
<siretart> do you remember your pass now?
<siretart> ;)
<ivoks> well, i think :)
<siretart> show in your sent mail folder *g*
<ivoks> siretart: it's crypted :)
<siretart> well, yes ;)
<ivoks> i would need your private key :)
<siretart> can you login now?
<ajmitch> siretart: when you say admins can archive uploads - you're the only admin? ;)
<siretart> no, dholback is too
<ajmitch> ah..
<ivoks> pbuilder is making me crazy :)
<tseng> i wonder how i got 1px off in the th
<tseng> compared to the td in the style sheet
<tseng> and only on the left side
<siretart> ok. i'm off now, have fun!
<ajmitch> I think it's about time for me to sleep
<ivoks> bye
<ajmitch> night all
<ivoks> night!
* ajmitch will try & review some tomorrow :)
<tseng> bye ajmitch, siretart
<siretart> n8 ajmitch
<ivoks> so, revu is for uploading packages?
<tseng> eh
<tseng> it will eventually replace the wiki page
<tseng> and enhance our workflow in reviewing
<ivoks> ok... but we should upload reviwed packages or we should review packages on revu?
<ivoks> Lathiat: ping
<\sh> the system of reviewing via wiki page is not working properly...if one motu is reviewing, and found some errors, then the errors must be fixed first, before another motu can review again
<ivoks> ok
* tseng throws some fud at kiko
<tseng> whois kiko-fud
<tseng> blah.
<ivoks> do sources have to have .diff.gz?
<tseng> ivoks: they dont *have* to to work
<tseng> ivoks: but its a very bad thing not to
<dholbach> ha... the wiki works again :)
<ivoks> bzflag from Lathiat is example of such package
<tseng> that would mean you are changing the upstream tarball to include debian/ and such
<dholbach> hi you two
<tseng> ivoks: this is called a native package
<ivoks> hi dholbach
<tseng> ivoks: if its that way in debian, its sortof proper to keep it that way
<tseng> but its gross
<ivoks> all right, thanks tseng
<tseng> hi dholbach
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i could use /var/cache/apt/archives for pbuilder
<tseng> you could
<tseng> I am using apt-proxy now
<tseng> for all my machines and pbuilders
<tseng> morn bradb
<dholbach> can i assume that   "../libtool: line 2358: 10778 Segmentation fault      ( ${SED} -e '2q' $lib | grep "^# Generated by .*$PACKAGE" ) >/dev/null 2>&1"   is not supposed to happend under any circumstances and the buildd is just wrong? :)
<tseng> dholbach: im having a similar problem
<dholbach> ppc buildd?
<tseng> dholbach: dh_makeclilibs segfaults on x86 buildd
<tseng> maybe others ive not looked
<dholbach> oh hm
<dholbach> well
<tseng> only on one package
<kiko-fud> tseng, tseng
<tseng> i havent managed to summon infinity yet
<tseng> welcome to review day, kiko
<ogra> haha
<bradb> hey tseng
<kiko> omg, reviewday
<dholbach> yeah kiko, you'll help us with the review day - AWESOME!
<ogra> kiko, so show us your work, we'll review it ;)
<tseng> ogra: yeah i dont trust his shoddy packages.
* kiko denies 
<ogra> hehe
<kiko> next!
<dholbach> tseng: infinity and kamion just explained, that random segfaults on powerpc happen from time to time, they hope the ppc64 kernels (some time this week) will clear it up
<tseng> hm
<tseng> that doesnt say anything for x86
<ivoks> re
<tseng> hi
<ivoks> oho, tseng, long time no see:)
<ivoks> bzflag seems to be ok
<Lathiat> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> Lathiat: hi
<ivoks> Lathiat: i just want to ask you did you forget bzflag diff
<ivoks> but i see it's native package...
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> it is
<Lathiat> but thats not my fault
<ivoks> i know
<Lathiat> ajmitch was looking at it yesterday
<ivoks> i wanted to ask you before i checked
<ivoks> after i checkes, everything is ok
<ivoks> checked
<Lathiat> heh ok ;p
<ivoks> tseng: ok, now that i checked package, i should upload it to revu?
<tseng> hm the idea is to upload it first
<tseng> and then comment on it
<ivoks> ok :)
<tseng> anyway, it doesnt matter this time
<tseng> you can use the wiki
<ivoks> i did use the wiki
<tseng> ok then
<tseng> sold
* Lathiat smacks thehammer
<tseng> revu will be easy to keep track of
<tseng> but next time
<ivoks> Lathiat: W: bzflag-server: manpage-section-mismatch usr/share/man/man6/bzfquery.6.gz:132 6 != 1
<ivoks> Lathiat: and README.WIN32?
<Lathiat> hrm did i break that or is it broken in the debian package?
<Lathiat> i basically touched as little as possible
<ivoks> that's in debian
<Lathiat> i'll fix that
<ivoks> cause it's upstream's README
<ivoks> oh, my wifi-radar got bad reviews :)
<tseng> networkmanager > *
<Treenaks> tseng: oh it works now?
<tseng> mostly
<Treenaks> tseng: last week it couldn't connect to my (wep-encrypted) network at home
<ivoks> i don't like nm depending on bind :(
<tseng> ivoks: eh it runs a local caching name server
<tseng> im not entirely sure why thats needed
<ivoks> why?
<ivoks> we should try not to start new services
<ivoks> if not really needed
<tseng> meh
<ivoks> bind for dhclient is really not needed
<Treenaks> afaik it uses bind to do lookups, because you can reload bind & have "new working DNS"
<Treenaks> but if you edit resolv.conf, you need to restart the apps as well
<tseng> < daniels> tseng: i assume because kicking all apps to re-read resolv.conf
<tseng>           (*cough*FIREFOX*cough*) is a pain in the arse
<tseng> ah
<tseng> that makes sense
<mgalvin> hi all
<ivoks> hm..
<ivoks> so, we will end up running DNS on desktop systems :)
<Treenaks> ivoks: scarily, yes..
<siretart> .oO( reviewing via revu is really more fun than via wiki... :) )
<ivoks> even microsoft didn't do that :)
<ogra> ivoks, i do...
<tseng> well i think IE still fucks up iof you change DNS
<ivoks> ogra: ?
<ogra> ivoks, having a caching DNS locally is a fine thing.....
<Treenaks> ogra: locally: yes. but on 127.0.0.1?
<ogra> having bind running as this local dns is overkill
<ogra> Treenaks, nope, indeed
<ivoks> we should have something else
<ivoks> not bind
<ivoks> djbdns :)
<ogra> i just run pdnsd normally
* Treenaks shudders at the thought of powerdns
* Treenaks blames his employer
* Lathiat shoots ivoks 
<\sh> siretart: u have it running already?
<siretart> \sh: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu
<siretart> \sh: uploading should already work, but I have to add uploaders to my keyring and database manually
<siretart> \sh: and many checkins since yesterday ;)
<\sh> siretart: hmmm....use this as logo: http://www.mattel.de/images/pr/heman.jpg
<\sh> siretart: and if u have time this evening lets get it running on the root server :)
<\sh> siretart: u rock :)
<\sh> siretart: and what do u want to use for autobuilding, sbuild or pbuilder?
<ivoks> Lathiat: why? :)
* ivoks isn't popular here :)
<siretart> \sh: LOL at the logo :)
<Lathiat> i just have a grudge against djb ;p
<siretart> \sh: yes, lets do that later this week
<ivoks> it was a joke :)
<ivoks> oh, ion3...
<siretart> \sh: for autobuilding: I would prefer sbuild, because others recommend it, and thats the software our buildd's are using. The output would be more even more comparable this way
<ivoks> that's trivial to fix
<siretart> but I never setup a sbuild, though
<\sh> siretart: ok...i will try it on my laptop first :)
<siretart> great :)
<bddebian> Howdy
<ivoks> one question
<ivoks> if i create file in /etc, in postinst script
<ivoks> do i have to add /etc in .dirs?
<mgalvin> are package reviews being done yet?
<ivoks> all day :)
<pef> hello
<\sh> siretart: sbuild looks promising...I will do a test setup this evening...lets see ;)
<mgalvin> cool, could someone take a look at my cegui package?
<mgalvin> and mmsrip?
<bddebian> Hello pef
<kiko> hey
<kiko> I am having a problem with a silly java package
<mgalvin> i would like to get it into breezy since its a dep for other packages I am wokring on
<kiko> Setting up sun-j2sdk1.5 (1.5.0+update03) ...
<kiko> mv: cannot stat `java': No such file or directory
<kiko> update-alternatives: unable to rename java to /usr/bin/java: Invalid cross-device link
<kiko> I suspect this means that the damned package doesn't assume /var and /usr are on separate devices
<kiko> is there a way to do all the unpacking etc a directory under /usr, such as /usr/tmp?
<tseng> you cant make a hardlink between devices
<tseng> if thats what its trying
<ogra> kiko, yep... see man dpkg
<pef> I have corrected the errors in my package in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages, it's klibido, someone can check it ? thank you
<tritium> Hello all.
<kiko> tseng, seems to be doing that, stupid package.
<ogra> kiko, but note that we have blackdowns java in multiverse soon
<tseng> blah andyfitz left
<ivoks> i'll kill dholcbach :)
<kiko> ogra, man dpkg == no love
<siretart> ogra: blackdown in multiverse? they don't share the braindead distribution terms of sun?
<siretart> that would be great news!
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<kiko> they do afaik
<tritium> bddebian, how are you?  :)
<ogra> kiko, dpkg --unpack package_file ...
<bddebian> tritium: Useless, how about you?
<\sh> pef: u talked to the maintainer guy from klibido?
<tritium> bddebian, no change here.
<pef> \sh, yes, and I took his package for reference
<ivoks> help! help! :)
<\sh> pef: and why don't u use it directly, if it's coming from upstream=
<ivoks> if I create file via potinst script, then it will not be removed on purge
<ivoks> how to fix that?
<Riddell> \sh: anything I need to do, anyone needing poked for review stuff?
<kiko> ogra, wtf does that unpackage to? :)
<pef> \sh, because it doesn't install correctly without compiling the package from source http://klibido.sourceforge.net/ "Ubuntu Linux: The Debian package doesn't work on Ubuntu. However, after adding the deb-src to sources.list, it can easily be rebuilded on Ubuntu"
<ogra> kiko, unpacking ?
<ogra> kiko, *g*
<ogra> kiko, anywhere in /var/lib/dpkg i think
<ivoks> ogra: could you help me out a bit?
<\sh> pef: use the source package...(diff.gz,.dsc, orig.tar.gz) and rebuild it with the correct build-deps
<\sh> pef: cause if your package goes into ubuntu universe, u have to file an ITP with debian, and if there is already one, we have a syncing problem
<\sh> Riddell: ?? :)
<kiko> ogra, nope
<\sh> think I will go home..and work further from home :(
<\sh> bbl
<ogra> ivoks, sorry, phone....
<ivoks> ogra: ok.. will wait :)
<pef> klibido will be soon in the official debian repository, and I have already built an ubuntu package for it (from the official debian package), where should I put it for review ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages is inadequate no ?
<tritium> JRe, ping
<JRe> tritium: pong
<tritium> JRe, I just noticed that you've packaged krecipes, and intend to contact me regarding merging our packages.
<JRe> tritium: right
<tritium> JRe, you're welcome to take it from me outright, if you like.
<ivoks> mgalvin: ping
<JRe> tritium: you were forst packaging this so take a look at my package and if there is something youf dinf good, feel free to take it ;)
<pef_aw> JRe, hi ;)
<tritium> JRe, that's kind of you to offer, but if you want to maintain it, I think that's fantastic.
<JRe> hi pef_aw
<mgalvin> ivoks, pong
<ivoks> mgalvin: i get 404 for your sources
<mgalvin> er, i just moved them, one sec...
<tritium> JRe, if you like, I'll take a look at your changes.  I take it from your comment that you split out the libraries into a separate package?
<ivoks> i found them
<ivoks> 404 again :)
<ivoks> ok... working
<mgalvin> ok try now at http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/ubuntu/packages/source/
<mgalvin> ok
<ivoks> not good
<ivoks> cegui-mk2 (0.2.1-1) unstable; urgency=low
<ivoks> should be 0.2.1-0ubuntu1 breezy
<ivoks> fix that, ok mgalvin?
<mgalvin> ok, that one, i was trying to get into debian and the maintainer has the updated package I made but hasn't uploaded it yet
<mgalvin> i will make that change so that we don't have to wait on him for now
<ivoks> that't reminds me...
<ivoks> do we check for RFP reports on packages?
<ivoks> E: Couldn't find package libxerces26-dev
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> oh, universe...
<tritium> JRe, I like what you've done.  Those changes were needed.  Since you're more focused on kubuntu, I'd like to let you have krecipes.
<JRe> tritium: okay if you prefer it this way ;)
<tritium> JRe, it's beneficial for both of us, and you've taken the next step, so go for it.
<JRe> tritium: okay :)
<ivoks> finally!!!!!
<ivoks> my CoC is approved
<ivoks> :)
<tritium> JRe, thanks for doing that :)
<ivoks> don't get any wrong ideas :)
<tritium> heh
* bddebian is not touching that comment :-)
<JRe> tritium: bah the program rock, end user should appreciate it (like my girlfriend...) ;)
<koke_> hi MOTUs!
<tritium> JRe, good.  I'm glad it'll work out :)
<koke_> exams over! :)
<tritium> congratulations, koke_ :)
<ivoks> hi koke_
<ivoks> koke_: good job!
<koke_> and only 3 days more of work :)
<koke_> summer is here
<koke_> I've been victim of SoC gossip :)
<koke_> everybody thought I was accepted into Google SoC
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> you aren't?!
<ivoks> :>
<koke_> nope :( but I'll do FindingPackages anyway :)
<ivoks> that would be great
<koke_> so... I've heard it's review day... what is left to be done
<koke_> I need to recover my skills after so much study :)
<ivoks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages
<ivoks> take a pick :)
<ivoks> or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview
<mgalvin> ivoks, i made those cegui changes and the new package is up on my site
<mgalvin> i also updated the links on the wiki
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> i'm building the old one
<ivoks> looks good
<tritium> JRe, okay, I removed krecipes from my list.  :)
<tritium> (on MOTUNewPackages)
<JRe> tritium: okay i'll work on this package for now!
<JRe> tritium: i'l look if there is a new upstream version first :)
<tritium> JRe, excellent.  Thanks again.
<ivoks> mgalvin:  libcegui-mk2-0: description-synopsis-starts-with-a-capital-letter
<ivoks> mgalvin: but that's debian problem...
<mgalvin> ok, i'm on it
<tritium> ogra, has Willis been around lately?
<ivoks> mgalvin: sorry, should've told you all mistakes in same time...
<ogra> tritium, i havent seen him
<tseng> Lathiat: huh.. ever used dovecot with krb5
<ogra> ivoks, so how can i help you ?
<ivoks> ogra: um... ah, yes!
<tritium> ogra, okay, thanks.  He expressed some interest in gourmet.  Perhaps I should consider letting him package it, given my present work load.
<ivoks> ogra: if i create file via postinst script
<ivoks> ogra: it doesn't get removed on --purge
<ivoks> ogra: how to fix that?
<ogra> ivoks, with a post/prerm script ?
<ivoks> ogra: right, but that will remove it on dpkg --remove to?
<ogra> it should, yes
<ivoks> hm... is that a problem? it's a configuration file for wifi-radar
<ivoks> and, if i create file via postinst script, do I need to add etc in debian/dirs?
<ogra> it should work without that...
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> mgalvin: i will give it OK but change that few things, ok?
<mgalvin> ivoks, ok, i made the changes already and am building the new package, it will be up on my site soon, thnx
<ivoks> np
<mgalvin> ivoks, just so you know, the new cegui is up on my site
<\sh> hmmm...i need some ubuntu hoary cds for friday
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> what's on friday?
<\sh> php usergroup meeting in cologne
<ivoks> uh, time for break..
<ivoks> and a shower :)
<\sh> and strange that the cds for patrick arrived 2 weeks ago and my cds not *grmpf*
* \sh sits down and is drawing some ubuntu cd covers 
<ivoks> \sh: i got reply from mako, finally :)
<ivoks> time to go...
<ivoks> see you
<\sh> harharl...octave2.1 is going through..nice I can work again
<tritium> \sh, that's good news
<\sh> tritium: at least my cxx stuff on my todo can be finished :)
<tritium> :)
<Lathiat> tseng: no (wrt krb5)
<siretart> \sh: sistpoty has written a decent readme, check svn. this should be enough information to setup postgres and co
<\sh> siretart: k
<mgalvin> siretart, ping
<tritium> see you later
<siretart> mgalvin: pong
<mgalvin> siretart, hi, the cegui maintainer is not going to upload cegui to debian for now so I have prepared it to be uploaded directly to breezy...
<mgalvin> ivoks OK'd it and i wondered if you could take a look at it, i would like to get it into breezy since its a dep for ogre
<siretart> mgalvin: I'm currently at work, will review it if I get home (few hours)
<mgalvin> siretart, ok, no rush, i just wanted you to know its ready, thnx
<ivoks> Yes, I had similar problems and I gave up. I installed wifi-radar which
<ivoks> does the job beautifully.
<ivoks> oh, how nice is to hear this from users :)
<uniq> anyone up for reviewing a new version of my ipodslave package? - http://frode.kde.no/ubuntu/ipodslave/
<ivoks> kswap.h?
<uniq> yes, it's needed because it's no longer used in kde.
<uniq> i've notified the author of ipodslave. but for now i must include it.
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> someone with more expirience whould review this...
<JDahl> I've noticed the Ubuntu bounty about Python scripting across Gnome applications - did anyone ever pick up the ball on that? I've recently become quite interested in Python scripting for Gnumeric, but their interface is very rudimentary.
<t_> hi
<bddebian> Hello t_
<t_> hi
<t_> sorry to be a noon but what is motu?
<bddebian> Master Of The Universe
<t_> master of the univers i get it!
<t_> doh!
<t_> just being nosey really
<t_> easiest linux idtro ever BTW
<RzR> hi
<t_> hi
<RzR> i have a package ready , debian pple do not want :)
<t_> sounds dubios
<RzR> the package is very simple see http://rzr.online.fr/q/Proxy
<t_> not on this link...
<DanielN> mh
<DanielN> i don't get fixed it
<DanielN> dammit :/
<DanielN> invalid use of void expression
<t_> I shuld have RTFM - sorry guys! Bye.
<DanielN> why?
<DanielN> what's the problem?
<mitsuhiko> hey guys, does anyone know who I can ask something about the ubuntu hardware database?
<tseng> mitsuhiko: ogra
<dholbach> re
<tseng> hi
<ogra> mitsuhiko, me
<bddebian> wb dholbach
<ogra> mitsuhiko, but why do you ask in -motu ?
<mgalvin> hi dholbach
<dholbach> how's the review party going?
<dholbach> siretart: thanks for the reviews - i'll have a look at them
<mitsuhiko> wb
<mgalvin> how can a specify that a package is only for i386? nvidia-cg-toolkit x86 version
<dholbach> in the Architecture: field
<mgalvin> if the package is only for i386, should i also make the -doc only for i386?
<siretart> hi folks!
<dholbach> mgalvin: good question
<mgalvin> hi siretart
<dholbach> mgalvin: maybe not
<\sh> i would say all, cause it's independent
<\sh> *yawn* re guys..this sleep was good :)
<siretart> wb \sh :)
<siretart> dinner, too ;)
<dholbach> siretart: you're on the news, erm i mean http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNewPackages ;)
<mgalvin> i left it as all for now, but it just seems incorrect to be able to install docs on an arch where the package itself cannot be used
<dholbach> siretart: will uploads of fixed packages open a "new thread"?
<siretart> dholbach: wooot! :)
<siretart> dholbach: I have planned a flag in the db schema to differentiate between NEW and updated packages, but I haven't written the cronjob checking that yet
<dholbach> siretart: maybe you could link to the MOTUNewPackagesPolicy and PackagingTips/ReviewingTips at REVU
<dholbach> siretart: so it'll be a new one?
<siretart> dholbach: good, Idea will add links in a second
<dholbach> take your time :)
<tseng> dholbach: no, he is too fast
<siretart> dholbach: I planned that a cronjob would check the package index from the archive and check if the package is already there
<\sh> dos anybody know a good start for sbuild?
<lamont__> \sh: define "start"
<\sh> start == howto?
<siretart> \sh: http://people.debian.org/~aba/buildd/cheat.html is recommended often
<dholbach> i'll be cooking and then do another 2-3 hours of review action :)
<siretart> dholbach: have fun :)
<dholbach> siretart: we need color indicators of how many "advocates" there are for a package ;)
<tseng> we do.
<dholbach> . o O { poor siretart }
<siretart> dholbach: excactly what I had in mind: NEW Packages get another color, and with 3 advocates again another one
<\sh> siretart: thx
<dholbach> siretart: with 1 2 3 :)
<dholbach> siretart: so we see what we can concentrate on, to get it in fast ;)
<siretart> ppl who want to speed up development are always welcome to contribute some code ;)
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> ;)
<\sh> siretart: should we create also wanna-build and buildd stuff?
<\sh> well, actually i will setup a buildd now, and then let's see if we can have fun
<siretart> \sh: thats the part I didn't really understand completly, but as far as I understood it, we would only need wanna-build and buildd if we would want to build packages on other host, maybe on different architectures
<siretart> \sh: sbuild seems to be the part how is started by buildd to do the actual building
<siretart> s/how/that/
<dholbach> shall we add the    package-upstreamversion-0ubuntu0.<package-before-upload-to-ubuntu-revision>   pattern to our policy?
<\sh> siretart: hmmm...so only sbuild then, no wanna-build cause it will send requests to the buildd
<siretart> \sh: I think so. yes
<siretart> dholbach: what problem do you want to solve with that policy?
<lamont__> sbuild builds packages, buildd drives packages based on what is out-of-date in the archive
<\sh> lamont__: well, we need only sbuild
<lamont__> \sh: right
<\sh> so i setup sbuild now, and testit....the trick behind it, it's the source repository, right?
<siretart> dholbach: I've seen your reply. will add -i flag to lintian call
<dholbach> siretart: you can more easily see if somebody fixed something in the meantime and a potential 0ubuntu1 (once it's uploaded) even overrides the package you may have installed locally
<lamont__> debootstrap --variant=buildd breezy chroot-breezy ...; create the right magic in /var/debbuild both in and out of the chroot; mount /proc and /dev/pts in the chroot
<dholbach> siretart: the kubuntu guys came up with it and i like it
<lamont__> that's about all there is to it
<lamont__> oh, and create the user in the chroot, and make sure that fakeroot got installed
<siretart> sounds easy.. on my list :)
<lamont__> \sh: as long as the chroot's sources.list point to a source repository, you can build that way, you can also sbuild -dbreezy foo_1.1.dsc
<\sh> lamont__: thx :)
<siretart> dholbach: sounds not bad. I'm not sure how often we will have that problem, but it doesn't seem to hurt is anyway
<dholbach> i'm going to upload - what? - 4 packages ;)
<dholbach> 4 new :)
<lamont__> install -d -m0775 -o${U} $root $root/home/${U} ${root}/build/${U} \
<lamont__>             ${root}/var/debbuild ${root}/var/debbuild/srcdep-lock
<lamont__> for correct values of U and root
<\sh> hmm....
<siretart> >> sudo mount --bind /proc /tmp/proc
<siretart> mount: permission denied
<siretart> thats the problem I cannot do it here
<\sh> lamont__: debootstrap --variant=buildd breezy chroots/breezy/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/archive ==> no breezy.buildd
<lamont__> \sh: which debootstrap are you running?
<\sh> argl...it's on hoary ;)
<\sh> damn
<lamont__> yeah - you need to install the one from breezy
<tseng> ive been bootstrapping hoary and dist-upgrading the chroot
<\sh> lamont: not possible, run-deps are not fitting...
<tseng> rather than screw around with pulling back glibc
<jbailey> tseng: Downgrades from breezy glibc to hoary glibc are a bit finicky.
<tseng> jbailey: yeah which is a good reason to avoid it
<lamont__> \sh: then download it, unpack it, and copy foo/usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy* into the real place
<\sh> lamont: only the breezy* from /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/?
<lamont__> because there aren't any real changes other than adding the script
<lamont__> the others should be identical
<\sh> breezy.buildd is not in this dir...anyways
<lamont__> from breezy?
<\sh> yepp
<bddebian> What do you folks use for maintainer and such, do you just leave it blank?
<\sh> 0.3.1.3ubuntu1
<tseng> we havent figured out a good process for the maintainer field yet
<tseng> in most cases we make tiny changes that dont really make sense to change the maintainer
<tseng> but that still wrongly indicates bugs belong to debian
<bddebian> tseng: This is not from Debian
<dholbach> that's what the Bugs: field is for
<tseng> well then the maintainer is the person who made the package
<bddebian> Good, I'll put tritium then. :-)
* lamont__ puts his name in the changelog, and lets dpkg-buildpackage do what it wants
<lamont__> I don't change the control file
<mgalvin> i put my nvidia-cg-toolkit package up on MOTUNewPackages for review, there are some lintian errors, but i don't think these are fixable since it a prebuilt binary
<lamont__> mgalvin: iz restricted?
<mgalvin> i haven't built this type of package before, so any advice is more than welcome
<\sh> ok will go via hoary to breezy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | IT'S REVIEW DAY TODAY! JOIN US AND FEEL THE LOVE! | NEW package? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<mgalvin> lamont__, yes
<ogra> dholbach, i think your breezy goal needs to switch to green now ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:dholbach] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | IT'S REVIEW DAY TODAY! JOIN US AND FEEL THE LOVE! | NEW package? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<dholbach> sorry for the noise
<ogra> dholbach, so JaneW will give you a gold star :)
<dholbach> ogra: it's not just MY goal, but siretart achieved QUITE A LOT with this
<dholbach> ogra: measuring the gold-star-ness of ExpandingUniverse isn't very easy ;)
<ogra> dholbach, doesnt matter, mention his part in the comments
<dholbach> we should something for UniverseCandidates and MOTUToReview as well
<dholbach> that'd be sweet
<bddebian> You should write step-by-step how-to's for morons like me too!! ;-)
<ogra> dholbach, but revu fullfillst te spec ;) so you can switch to the light green state.... if the tool is used day to day and apt-get.org is in switch to dark green (e.g. finished)
<dholbach> i already thought about it: a good way of measuring, how much people like a special app might be counting unique WikiNames of personal pages
<\sh> siretart: u have mail :)
<ogra> bddebian, thats tsengs/ajmitchs goal ;)
<dholbach> ogra: i'm a bist hesitant: you forget UniverseCandidates and gnomefiles.org/kdelook.org or whatever :)
<siretart> \sh: just a moment ;)
<ogra> dholbach, but then you wil never achive the goal, you need to set milestones
<\sh> siretart: u r the rocker of the month :)
<bddebian> ogra: Bah, but they already hate me. :-)
<ogra> bddebian, thats ok ;)#
<dholbach> ogra: i don't mind blue/green/yellow in this special case ;)
<ogra> dholbach, but canonical (JaneW especially) des
<ogra> does
<mgalvin> lamont__, its a dep of ogre3d which is used by many games
<dholbach> ogra: let me think about it
<ogra> dholbach, and siretart deserves to be put onto the goals page for that ;)
<ogra> as well a \sh
<ogra> as
<ogra> dholbach, you might also rip me off as second and put these two in ;)
<\sh> ogra: whatever it is...ask me first :)
<ogra> \sh, fame
<\sh> ogra: ah go away with fame :)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> siretart: ^^
<siretart> :)
<\sh> ogra: I'm not a monkey ;)
<ogra> \sh, siretart, you both deserver a lot of fame for that :)
<ogra> -r
<\sh> siretart: what should be the name of our sbuild?
<\sh> peggy, march, bud, steve, marcy, al ?
<siretart> \sh: done
<\sh> i'm up for marcy, the chicken ;)
<siretart> \sh: elma, of course
<dholbach> \sh: ouch :)
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> elma?
<\sh> ok elma :)
<siretart> \sh: ogras suggestion: elmo automated :)
<\sh> hahahahha
<\sh> *howl*
<dholbach> dinner
<ogra> yay
<\sh> hanging the user information for elma
<\sh> Enter the new value, or press ENTER for the default
<\sh>         Full Name: Elmo Automated
<\sh> elma is setup :) congrats elmo :)
<ogra> hihi
<\sh> now i need a picture of elmo in a short skirt for the mails ;)
<dholbach> oh man... poor elmo
<\sh> s/poor/famous/
<ogra> GUYS !!!
<ogra> <ogra> sabdfl, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ do you tink we could have a vserver for that ?
<ogra> <ogra> its python :)
<ogra> <sabdfl> ogra: yes, with pleasure
<siretart> great :)
<dholbach> woohoo! :)
<\sh> ogra: we need to setup a sbuild for that...
<siretart> ogra: what kind of vserver is that?
<siretart> ogra: vmware? linux vserver?
<ogra> siretart, no idea yet, but they are located in the canonical DC
<ogra> linux vserver
<ogra> so we have plenty of bandwith
<siretart> ogra: thats the same problem as with tauware: linux vserver cannot run sbuild's :(
<ogra> hmm a pbuilder instead ?
<siretart> ogra: same problem: without the capability CAP_ADMIN, I cannot bind mount /proc and /dev/pts in the chroot
<\sh> no...sbuilder
<ogra> i would suggest you just go on like planned for now, and we put it on the TB agnda for detailed discussion
<siretart> and I don't think you would want to provide us with CAP_ADMIN
<siretart> that'll be best
<ogra> siretart, doesnt CAP_ADMIN work in a chroot ?
<siretart> ogra: it does, but with CAP_ADMIN, but that's quite insecure
<siretart> i'm no expert with linux vserver, but I think with CAP_ADMIN its possible to break out of the vserver.
<ogra> hmmk
<siretart> better let's ask if its possible to run sbuild in the vserver and decide then
<ogra> lets see what TB says then
<siretart> jep
<\sh> lamont__: in the /var/lib/sbuild/source-depencies-stable what should I put there?
<lamont__> \sh: empty file
<lamont__> since that matches what the buildd will have.
<lamont__> that file is used to provide a list of build-deps for packages that may or may not have them listed.
<lamont__> ubuntu doesn't use it at all - you must have good build-deps
<\sh> ah
<dholbach> brb
<ogra> gah
<ogra> In /etc/fstab add a line like this as root user (in Ubuntu after
<ogra> installing root account has NO password so just type: su <ENTER> and
<ogra> voila, you're root as ANY user)
<bddebian> w00t
<ogra> idi$%
<\sh> woot?
<bddebian> w00t == like yahoo or yeah haw, etc
<\sh> na thats clear
<\sh> ogra: do u have hoary cds at home?
<\sh> at least 20-30?
<ogra> \sh, 2
<\sh> haha...
<ogra> i386 only
<\sh> crap..i need some for friday
<\sh> and my delivery is not there...
<\sh> and if I have luck, my gpg will be much more strong then now ;)
<ogra> :)
<\sh> ogra: php ug meeting...and there r some devs of php around :)
<\sh> and some guys from o'reilly
<ogra> nice
<\sh> yepp..sebastian bergmann (php5 dev and book author) invited me and his next book will be released by o'reilly ;)
<\sh> now it goes...lets try sbuild
<siretart> ok, revu should now have its worst children diseases fixed. now some reviewing and then for the feature requests ;)
<\sh> siretart: can't login
<\sh> and again
<\sh> damn
<siretart> rechecking
<siretart> \sh: use username 'sh@linux-server.org' and the password you provided in the email
<\sh> ah
<\sh> elma@server3:~$ sudo rm -Rvf chroot-breezy/
<\sh> rm: cannot remove directory `chroot-breezy//dev': Device or resource busy
<\sh> rm: cannot remove directory `chroot-breezy//tmp/dir.MSZFoh': Device or resource busy
<\sh> damn
<Nafallo> umount ;-)
<\sh> sudo umount chroot-breezy/dev : umount: dev/: device is busy
<ogra> \sh, umount -l
<\sh> thx
<\sh> -l dangling ;)
<dholbach> siretart: what was your complaint on marlin exactly? that i forgot the year of the copyright? like 2002-2004?
<siretart> dholbach: yepp, the year. http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html has a good template
<bddebian> Isn't it wrong that gourmet says it is GPL but doesn't have a copy of the GPL license?  At least not that I can see
<dholbach> siretart: ylright
<\sh> something i'm doing wrong
<\sh> crap, what is it
<dholbach> unfortunately new uploads break REVU slightly
<dholbach> especially if we should take the "new version policy" into account
<ogra> bddebian, ask upstream to add a copy
<\sh> lamont__: Can't create lock file chroot-breezy//var/lib/sbuild/srcdep-lock/install.lock: No such file or directory <- normal for the first run, or should i install sbuild inside the chroot?
<lamont__> you need to create those directories in the chroot, owned by the user that's running sbuild
<siretart> dholbach: err, huh?
<\sh> lamont__: k thx
<dholbach> siretart: if you have at the index page
<dholbach> siretart: you'll see two clamtk entries :)
<dholbach> siretart: sorry, that's what i meant
<dholbach> siretart: and i'm sure if i upload *-0ubuntu0.2, i'll get another entry
<siretart> dholbach: no, thats intended. because they are 2 different uploads
<dholbach> siretart: don't you think it'll clutter the site all up?
<dholbach> siretart: but i can see what you mean
<siretart> dholbach: I see your point, but I also want do be able to look at older uploads
<siretart> dholbach: so older uploads should be archived immediatly
<dholbach> siretart: so we always have to upload a package we built with -S -sa
<siretart> dholbach: for the time being, yes. Until someone figuers out how to fetch the orig tarball from the archive
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> siretart: "...you might find the packages..." -> "...you might find the pages..." :)
<dholbach> siretart: but now i'll stop complaining ;)
<siretart> gnarf. thanks
<siretart> nono, please go on :)
<siretart> dholbach: I already have implemented a nuke facility but disabled the link to nuke off old downloads
<\sh> a jetzt ja eine insel
<dholbach> oh, ROCK
<\sh> bc_1.06-17 is building ;)
<siretart> \sh: w00t! :)
<\sh> ah another error
<\sh> Can't open average time db /var/lib/sbuild/avg-build-times
<\sh> Can't open average space db /var/lib/sbuild/avg-build-space
<siretart> perhaps touching them helps?
<sistpoty> hi together
<\sh> lets see
<sistpoty> r u just fiddling with revu?
<siretart> sistpoty: huhu. yes, some kind of "finetuning", see svn log
<siretart> ;)
<sistpoty> g
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<dholbach> you guys ROCK!
<sistpoty> thanks
<dholbach> sistpoty: you're from nrnberg as well?
<sistpoty> siretart: I'm just trying to get the css w3c-validated... can i update on tauware?
<\sh> siretart: no
<sistpoty> dholbach: yes, (actually from fuerth)
<dholbach> ah cool
<dholbach> if i should be there, i'll ping both of you for keysigning and beerdrinking ;)
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> sistpoty: just commit, ill update
<sistpoty> k
<sistpoty> commited
<siretart> updated
<siretart> sistpoty: i'm implementing the nuking now, dholbach is right, the page will fill up too quickly
<sistpoty> kk
<sistpoty> siretart: could you update again?
<dholbach> the problem is that comments/advocates will be lost, right?
<sistpoty> yes
<siretart> dholbach: the comments/advocates count for the upload
<dholbach> hrmbl
<dholbach> this will force people to have a look at it again and again
<\sh> mmm
<siretart> dholbach: see, what happens if packages actually gets uploaded in the archive? do you really want all old comments months ago to reappear?
<dholbach> no, absolutely not, if it's uploaded to ubuntu
<siretart> dholbach: what if the package gets uploaded, and later someone else prepares another upload. the comments from the old upload are most probably not valid anymore
<dholbach> hrm
<siretart> yeah. thats the reason why commenting/advocating is so upload-centric
<\sh> no..can't get it
<\sh> lamont__: need another hint ;)
<dholbach> siretart: if a package gets uploaded you can nuke everything related to that package
<lamont__> \sh: sup?
<\sh> Can't open average time db /var/lib/sbuild/avg-build-times
<\sh> Can't open average space db /var/lib/sbuild/avg-build-space
<siretart> dholbach: I have a script (nuke_upload) ready whys deletes all comments and the upload tuple itself from the database. deleting the files on the filesystem must go manually atm. thats the reason why I havn't it enabled yet
<dholbach> ok, i see
<lamont__> chown shermann /var/lib/sbuild /var/lib/sbuild/ /var/lib/sbuild/srcdep-lock
<lamont__> \sh: both in and out of the chroot
<\sh> ahhh :)
<dholbach> siretart: i really don't want to complain, you did awesome work, i'm just thinking about it
<sistpoty> hm... maybe when there is new upload, we could give links to the old upload on the details page
<\sh> another try
<\sh> ROCK!
<\sh> thx lamont__ you're my favorite
<\sh> it works
<\sh> now for the bloody mod_python stuff
<\sh> siretart: sbuild works :)
<siretart> dholbach: yes, I did think also alot about this one, but I considered the way it is now because it was easy and quick to implement
<siretart> \sh: great :)
<\sh> lamont__: can I say to sbuild where it should store the resulting binary packages?
<siretart> \sh: did you understand how the scripts in hook.d work? revu would 'just' need another hook for elma/sbuild
<lamont__> \sh: sbuild stores them in .
<\sh> lamont__: right, but no way to say: put it there, instead of "."?
<lamont__> not that I know of
<siretart> dholbach: but you're right. there is absolutly room for improvment. still I think the current state is also more comfortable to use than the wiki
<\sh> siretart: no i don't have a clue right now...I have to read
<siretart> \sh: the scripts in hook.d are called with the directory in incoming as only parameter.
<\sh> siretart: where is "hook.d" be places? in the chroot or in the main sbuild user dir?
<\sh> s/places/placed/
<siretart> \sh: it's in the svn. it can be anywhere, you have to adjust that in scripts/process_uploads.sh anyway
<\sh> siretart: so it doesn't have to do anything with sbuild...only with revu
<siretart> dholbach: 'nuke' links enabled. be careful, no confirmation is asked ;)
<dholbach> hehe :)
<siretart> \sh: jepp!
<\sh> ok
* tseng > home
<dholbach> bye tseng
<ogra> hmm, tseng is bigger then home
<ogra> must be a small house
<siretart> or a really big tseng ;)
<Mithrandir> actually, he overwrote everything in his home with himself.
<Nafallo> hehehe
<ogra> *g*
<Mithrandir> which will make him surprised when he gets there, I guess.
<ogra> lol
<siretart> ok. Now everyone with upload permissions to universe should be able to upload to revu, too!
<dholbach> wooho
<siretart> they cannot login, though, because they have not a password set. but uploading is a start :)
<siretart> whops. I think I found a problem
<siretart> the uploads have a signed .changes file. so anyone could fetch the changes file and upload it to the archive.. hmm
<siretart> I think I'll just delete the changes file after processing, what do you think?
<ogra> siretart, but they have also signed changes files if they are in publich personal archives, whats wrong with that ?
<ogra> i.e. if i upload a package to my personal arch, i uploas dsc, diff.gz, orig.tar.gz and changes.... so you could grab it there anyway
<siretart> ogra: yeah, but perhaps there are some problems with the package, someone else grabs the package and uploads it to ubuntu. the upload will be accepted, because your key is also in the uploaders keyring of ubuntu
<dholbach> siretart: could we have a column for advocates per package/upload? ;)
<siretart> dholbach: yes. already on my list
<dholbach> excellent *hug siretart*
<siretart> :)
<dholbach> ok uploaded a bunch of fixed packages
<dholbach> siretart: !!! :)
<siretart> dholbach: was easier than I thought :)
<dholbach> count() is your friend ;)
<siretart> what do you like better, 3(1), or 3/1?
<dholbach> ()
<siretart> ok
<dholbach> and an update of the title row maybe to indicate what's going on
<siretart> yep, thats another file ;)
<dholbach> what about the main uploaders? can they add comments too?
<dholbach> seb128 and mvo did some reviews
<dholbach> fabbione as well
<siretart> dholbach: as soon as they mail my a password
<siretart> mail me
<dholbach> ah ok
<siretart> ah "lost password" link would be great, too, but thats too much for this evening ;)
<dholbach> i STRONGLY URGE each and every motu to USE REVU! NOW! upload your crack and shorten the lists on MOTUNewPackages, kthxbye
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> yippie, i got revu working on my own machine :) i'll document things in the readme g
<siretart> sistpoty: w00t! :)
<siretart> sistpoty: r47 checked in
<\sh> hmmm....what about a mailinglist ?
<sistpoty> would be great... as well as commit mails :)
<\sh> i need a mailinglist...and I'm too lazy to setup mailman in my environment now ;)
<siretart> \sh: mailling list for commit mails or uploads?
<siretart> I think my mailman setup could still work here.. hmm lets see
<\sh> siretart: commit mails, or buildlogs ;)
<siretart> \sh: ah. good idea ;)
<\sh> and I can't login ;)
<\sh> no doesn't work
<siretart> sistpoty: I enabled the commit mails for both of us
<sistpoty> siretart: cool :)
<sistpoty> n.b. is apache2 in ubuntu the same package as in debian (does the config-directory-structure differ?)?
<siretart> sistpoty: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/apache2/ <- here is the difference to debian
<siretart> no changes to directory structure
<sistpoty> thx
<siretart> hm. mailman seems to be a bigger building site here..
<siretart> does anyone know frode doeving?
<\sh>  siretart can u look whats up with the login?
<uniq> siretart: it's me.
<siretart> \sh: did you use your email address as login name?
<dholbach> uniq: may i introduce you to siretart  :)
<uniq> dholbach: thanks :)
<\sh> sh@linux-server.org
<siretart> ah, hi uniq  - never read you before :)
<siretart> yes
<siretart> uniq: I will add you to the keyring, but please get your key signed by someone in the strong set
<siretart> uniq: this is a requirement for motus anyway
<uniq> siretart: i'm working on it.. it's kinda hard where i'm located geographically.
<dholbach> uniq: where are you?
<uniq> northern norway, not even close to mithrandir and the others.
<siretart> uniq: hm. I see..
<dholbach> uniq: we have a process for that, you could send a copy of your keyID (you have to take it to a notary or bank or something, so they verify who you are) - send all this via snailmail to mako
<uniq> dholbach: oh.. nice. that's probably easier and less expensive than a flight +++ to have it signed.
<\sh> siretart: can u provide me with a apache config for mod_python...which packages
<dholbach> uniq: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnsignedGpgKey
<dholbach> so how's the review day going on?
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<dholbach> review party! :)
<ivoks> hey dholbach
<ivoks> i fixed wifi-radar :)
<dholbach> i saw it
<dholbach> excellent
<ivoks> review uber alles :)
<dholbach> will you upload it to revu?
<ivoks> glady
<ivoks> gladly
<dholbach> i'll give my signature after another look
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> revu rocks
<ivoks> yeah? great
<tseng> ogra: i was redirecting myself
<ogra> tseng, ahh, yes...
<ogra> :)
<siretart> uniq: you got mail
<uniq> siretart: thanks.
<siretart> you're welcome
<ivoks> siretart: great job with revu!
<siretart> ivoks: thanks, but there is still a lot of work todo!
<ivoks> siretart: we are here to help you
<ivoks> ok, uploaded to revu
<dholbach> ivoks: i remove it from MOTUNewPackages, ok?
<\sh> sistpoty: ping
<ivoks> dholbach: ok
<\sh> http://revu.ubuntu.linux-server.org/
<\sh> ROCK
<\sh> anybody has a clue if mod_python is running with user/group settings when I set them in apache2?
<siretart> \sh: I think it should run as user www-data
<\sh> siretart: but sbuild user is elma ;)
<\sh> i need to get this in sync
<ivoks> user/group
<ivoks> not www-data
<ivoks> that's why there is suexec
<tseng> ugh
<ivoks> lilo flood :)
<tseng> i wish he knew what a wallop was
<katzor> hi guys, i tried to build a deb but it fails to sign...
<tseng> im on 2 other networks and neither sends me global messages. certainly not begging for more money
<\sh> rock guys..
<\sh> anonymous uploads with new permissions runs ;)
<tseng> hm
<\sh> we're coming to the end ;) lets make some python stuff running
<dholbach> katzor: hi, did you change the entry in debian/changelog to read your name and mail adress?
<katzor> no
<katzor> oh, yes i did
<dholbach> you have a gpg key?
<katzor> yes
<katzor> it gets shown when i pgp --list-key
<ivoks> revu is revulution :)
<dholbach> maybe set DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL?
<dholbach> ivoks: left a note :)
<katzor> i'll try
<GazerWork> dholbach, I'm not sure if I understood well your last commentary about my package (ceferino)
<dholbach> GazerWork: hey :)
<ivoks> thanks guys
<dholbach> GazerWork: dpkg-source -x *.dsc wants a *_0ubuntu2.orig.tar.gz
<ivoks> i'm still not familiar with cdbs, so that will wait for next release
<dholbach> ivoks: it's lovely :)
<dholbach> GazerWork: <package>_<upstream-version>.orig.tar.gz would be ok
<dholbach> ivoks: hm, maybe use dpatch?
<dholbach> ivoks: at least your patch should be in debian/
<GazerWork> dholbach, but the package is ceferino_0.95.orig.tar.gz (0.95 is upstream version)
<ivoks> it is in debian/patches
<katzor> still, it says gpg: skipped `Martin Schmeisser <SchmeisserMartin@gmail.com>': secret key not available
<katzor> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<GazerWork> dholbach, why dpkg-sorce whats _0ubuntu2.orig.tar.gz ?
<GazerWork> *hants
<dholbach> GazerWork: let me have another look
<GazerWork> dholbach, thx
<dholbach> katzor: is this exactly what gpg tells you?
<katzor> ja
<katzor> oh, yes
<ivoks> dholbach: i'll checkout dpatch and do some changes tomorrow then
<dholbach> ivoks: it's easy to use
<GazerWork> katzor, try gpg -K to see if your secret key is listed
<ivoks> i'm sure it is
<ivoks> but it's 00:00 and i didn't drink water few minutes ago :)
<dholbach> just add the targets as mentioned in /usr/share/doc/dpatch to debian/rules and then dpatch-edit-patch my-brilliant-patch
<dholbach> ;)
<uniq> uhm. dput ate my ppc debs too.. oh well..
<dholbach> uniq: source packages should be fine
<dholbach> GazerWork: daniel@bert:~$ LC_ALL=C dpkg-source -x ceferino_0.95-0ubuntu2.dsc
<dholbach> dpkg-source: failure: cannot read ./ceferino_0.95-0ubuntu2.tar.gz: No such file or directory
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
<katzor> dholbach, that lists my pub keys
<uniq> dholbach: i know, just hoped dput would choose only source packages when i .changes as an argument.. but the .debs were uploaded too..
<siretart> uniq: please upload with full source (option -S -sa) and no binaries to revu (just in case ;)
<GazerWork> dholbach, oks, I'll fix that
<dholbach> uniq: what did you pass to debuild?
<uniq> dholbach: i use pbuilder.
<GazerWork> katzor, try using -k<keyid> when call dpkg-buildpackage
<dholbach> katzor: if you really have a gpg key with the same userID, i have no clue - you may want to ask on #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> uniq: yeah, but for building the source package before
<uniq> dholbach: i have source packages and all.
<dholbach> uniq: i'm sure you invoke something like    debuild -S -sa
<katzor> ill try, thanks for your effort guys!
<siretart> katzor: better build without signing (-us -uc) and sign your .changes with "debsign" afterwards
<dholbach> uniq: how do you "update" source packages once you did a change?
<uniq> dpkg-source -b source-dir/
<katzor> GazerWork s Method hekped
<katzor> *helped
<katzor> thanks
<dholbach> uniq: try    debuild -S   in the source tree (and -sa if you have to upload orig.tar.gz as well)
<uniq> dholbach: after dpkg-source -b i run pbuilder build package.dsc
<dholbach> uniq: yeah, that's good, but we're talking about the step before pbuilding :)
<GazerWork> Kaloz, you're welcome
<uniq> dholbach: ah.. stupid me :)
<dholbach> uniq:   debuild -S   gives you the nice .dsc and .diff.gz and adds the information which files are going to be uploaded to .changes, if you add   -sa   you upload .orig.tar.gz as well
<dholbach> uniq: don't worry - it took me ages to get the hang out of this ;)
<uniq> there. finally.
<uniq> ipodslave uploaded.
<dholbach> NICE
<ivoks> dholbach: i have to put my patch in source tree, not debian tree?
<dholbach> ivoks: all the stuff you add/change goes into debian/
<siretart> uniq: there was/is a small bug with the key. please use 'frode@lnix.net' to login in future
<ivoks> i know that, that's why i'm asking
<GazerWork> dholbach, done :)
<ivoks> dpatch-edit-patch: Error: "/home/ivoks/dcc/wifi-radar-1.9.4/debian/patches" is not the toplevel directory of a Debian package, aborting.
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> ivoks: invoke dpatch-edit-patch from wifi-radar-1.9.4/
<uniq> siretart: ok. thanks.
<dholbach> sorry for being unclear
<ivoks> ah, ok :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-03
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> my bad, should've check man :)
<dholbach> GazerWork: excellent, i'll have another look
<ivoks> uh... i'll check this tomorrow :)
<siretart> woah, sudden load of 18 on my vserver
<siretart> but doesn't seem to be caused by me or revu..
<siretart> what a shok
<dholbach> i felt the disturbance in the force ;)
<dholbach> somebody at least liked 2 of my packages
<dholbach> i'm so happy!!!
* sistpoty is innocent :)
<uniq> siretart: nice system. great improvement from the wiki.
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> phew... writing README-files is exhausting
<lsuactiafner> sistpoty : yeh it is
<ivoks> siretart: problem in revu?
<ivoks> E: wifi-radar_1.9.4-0ubuntu2_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<dholbach> ha, old lintian
<ivoks> it aborts checking of source
<siretart> yeah, tauware.de is running debian stable atm
<siretart> (no I cannot change that now ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> ok, i have hoary on my servers
<siretart> can I install lintian/linda from breezy without hazzles?
<dholbach> they are scripts
<ivoks> siretart: you could create whole chroot for service :)
<dholbach> python/perl
<siretart> hm. ic
<dholbach> GazerWork: finally :)
<siretart> well, revu on tauware is just for development anyway.
<siretart> ok, but now I really need to get to bed
<GazerWork> dholbach, I did it :D
<dholbach> good night siretart and thanks for the work
<siretart> gn8 folks! see you tomorrow
<uniq> gnite.
<dholbach> siretart: you're going to be a MOTU too soon? ;)
<ivoks> siretart: yeah, good job!!
<sistpoty> gn8 siretart
<siretart> if something really breakes, sistpoty has shell access and should be able to fix things ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: you're going to be a MOTU too soon? ;)
<siretart> hehe
<sistpoty> omg
<siretart> n8 sistpoty, thanks ivoks, bye dholbach :)
<dholbach> bye :)
<sistpoty> dholbach: hm... i would like to, but for the next two month i should concentrate on my study (got two "diplom"-exams)
<dholbach> sistpoty: ha... :)
<dholbach> ich bin an der diplomarbeit und hab meine letzte klausur in zwei wochen ;)
<dholbach> but we needed the review day desperately, so i took half a day off :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<ivoks> damn gksu
<ivoks> i'm off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 ivoks
<dholbach> bye ivoks
<ivoks> sorry, didn't do much today as I hoped... but I'll do in days to come
<ivoks> n8!
<uniq> nite.
<uniq> maybe the listing order should be reversed.. so motus can start at the top and finish the first packages first.
<\sh> mmm..
<\sh> dput.cf how can i give a password to the login for method ftp?
<\sh> sistpoty: ping
<\sh> guys, anybody against public ssh key method?
<\sh> for uploading for revu?
<sistpoty> pong... sorry was just smoking a cigarette
<\sh> sistpoty: some points against public ssh key uploading?
<\sh> no ftp method
<\sh> (or someone gives me a working config for vsftpd with named and anonymous uploads) ;)
<dholbach> \sh: why?
<\sh> dholbach: because I'm a vsftpd noob ;)
<\sh> named accounts I can handle, but dput not
<dholbach> those files are signed, that's why we don't need ssh or whatever :)
<sistpoty> \sh: not really... will this work with dput? (have no experience with dput :()
<\sh> and i have no experience with vsftpd :( cause anonymous download works, but upload not
<dholbach> sistpoty: it does an anonymous ftp upload, runs some checks before, nothing serious :)
<ajmitch> hi all
<ajmitch> have I missed anything? :)
<tseng> ajmitch: yes, you are the new MOTMOTU
<dholbach> REVIEW DAY GOING ON! :)
<tseng> ajmitch: congratulations
<tseng> *hide*
<ajmitch> hah
<dholbach> i seem to have missed something as well ;)
* tseng hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> REVU rocks so hard
<ajmitch> there hasn't been a TB/CC meeting, so I know it couldn't happen :)
<tseng> yep
<ajmitch> and won't
<sistpoty> dholbach and \sh then anonymous ftp should be the choice, if dput doesn't support public ssh key uploading (at least i think, that siretart had this in mind)
<ajmitch> oh, for access to revu source, so I could fix the glaring speeling misteaks
<ajmitch> sistpoty: dput works fine with scp
<sistpoty> ok... no objections any more :)
<ajmitch> mentors.debian.net uses that method :)
<dholbach> oh shoot, i forgot - have to get up early tomorrow
<dholbach> i think i'll call it the day
<ajmitch> http://mentors.debian.net/cheese.php
<ajmitch> hah
<\sh> frmp
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i can try to give you access to the subversion-repo... just send me a mail what password you wish (daemon@poleboy.de)
<\sh> 500 OOPS: vsftpd: refusing to run with writable anonymous root
<ajmitch> "using thes service" -> "using this service" kthx
<\sh> ok...when I remove the write permission to the home dir of the ftp user then I can login via anonymous
<dholbach> good night
<\sh> but then I can't write
<sistpoty> good nite, dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<sistpoty> hm... sorry, haven't tried vsftpd either
<ajmitch> what do the letters in the advocating column mean?
<ajmitch> true/false?
<sistpoty> yep
<sistpoty> spelling mistake fixed :)
<tseng> whiprush: hi
<ajmitch> perhaps that should be a bit clearer :)
<sistpoty> kk :)
<tseng> dinner time, bbl
<Unfrgiven> hi all
<tseng> hi Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> how are you?
<tseng> good thanks
<tseng> you?
<ajmitch> hey Unfrgiven
<tseng> dinner suggestions?
<ajmitch> steak & chips
<tseng> hm
<tseng> its hard to go out for that here by yourself
<tseng> you look stupid
<ajmitch> I've been wanting to have that for dinner for awhile
<tseng> yep its a good one
<tseng> i especially like cheese fries with bacon
<tseng> chips are fries here
<tseng> and crisps are chips :)
<ajmitch> that's because your language is funny
<tseng> arent crisps from the US?
<tseng> wikipedia says "It is believed that the original potato chip recipe was created by Native American chef George Crum, at the Moon Lake Lodge in Saratoga Springs, New York on August 24, 1853"
<Unfrgiven> tseng: im good
<Unfrgiven> been fairly busy lately so havent been on irc much
<tseng> and they were called Chips :D
<tseng> ajmitch: it is you who are silly.
<tseng> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_chips
<whiprush> hey tseng, Unfrgiven, ajmitch, *.*
<tseng> whiprush yo yo
<tseng> whiprush: muine should be in
<Unfrgiven> and also the fact that i managed to get addicted to both Grand Theft Auto San Andreas & Battlefield 2 did not help :)
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: howdy dude
<whiprush> yeah I saw, haven't gotten to it yet though
<whiprush> hey Unfrgiven
<whiprush> how are things?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: i had a question regarding the intro developer docs. should creating/configuring chroots and pbuilder be in the document?
<ajmitch> tseng: as you can see, we make it simple & call everything chips
<tseng> Unfrgiven: definately
<Unfrgiven> tseng: i have started adding those bits it but it is blowing out the size
<tseng> Unfrgiven: but its mostly written on the wiki, just formatting
<tseng> hm well its important
<ajmitch> where on the wiki is it?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: its no longer the *really short* document we intended it to be
<tseng> hm
<ajmitch> it can't be too short if you want people to get some value from it
<tseng> how long is it :)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: i agree its important. but then we need to accept that the document is likely to be > 20 pages
<\sh> Wrong Password
<\sh> every single time..with a bloody ftp client i can upload
<tseng> 20 pages for pbuilder?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: 20 pages total...
<Unfrgiven> tseng: not just pbuilder :P
<tseng> when we say short, we mean significantly shorter than Debian New Maint
<\sh> anyways..tomorrow i will find a solution
<\sh> night all
<tseng> Unfrgiven: what all is in it at this point?
<Unfrgiven> \sh_away: nite dude
<tseng> Unfrgiven: i dont think ive seen anything since UDU
<tseng> to have a reference
<ajmitch> are you wanting it for modifying packages, or creating new packages?
<Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah i havent made it public yet.
<ajmitch> since debian NM guide is very much tailored for new
<tseng> as specced it was "unpack and examine an existing package, than roll your own"
<ajmitch> right
<tseng> Unfrgiven pretty much has creative lisence at this point, imo
<tseng> its his project to complete as it makes sense
<ajmitch> ok
<tseng> :)
<Unfrgiven> tseng: so far we have an intro/rationale, packages required (and what each one is for taken mostly out of the DNMG), chroot, pbuilder, creating new packages, updating existing new pacakges, a tips & tricks type section which is akin to a quick reference
* ajmitch remembers trying to package something based on the  debian docs
<tseng> Unfrgiven: rock
<tseng> Unfrgiven: yeah i really feel pbuilder is essential to the MOTU experience
<Unfrgiven> the quick reference is things like a checklist of steps required to package something... so someone who knows what each step is but cant remember the list of steps can read it as they pacakge till they memorise
<tseng> it forces good habits
<tseng> yep thats a good one
<Unfrgiven> tseng: agreed. i just wanted to set length expectations :)
<tseng> tbh the length is less important than the language and conent maybe?
<tseng> in terms of not scaring people off
<tseng> i was pretty daunted by NM
<Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah same here. but we said we wanted a short document as well to not scare off people
<ajmitch> NM is ok if you get the right application manager
<tseng> ajmitch: i mean, the guide
<Unfrgiven> some alternatives i thought of was to perhaps put the chroot and pbuilder stuff as an appendix
<sistpoty> g'nite together
<tseng> Unfrgiven: you could, but its 100% required for motus to use it
<Unfrgiven> so as to keep the focus on packaging rather than setting up the development environment
<tseng> you could, but i think its bad to give them the option to do it sloppily the very first time
<Unfrgiven> tseng: i know. and the packaging instructions are going to basically say that pbuilder is used to build a binary from a source package. i dont intend on even mentioning that there are other ways to do it
<tseng> im willing to compromise on # of pages for covering the real world requirements
<ajmitch> reminds me that I should try & update my pbuilder base
<Unfrgiven> one of the things ive noticed with debian packaging is that there are many ways to do it.
<Unfrgiven> which can be daunting
<tseng> thats very true
<ajmitch> Unfrgiven: of course
<Unfrgiven> the document is sposed to show the *right* way to do it
<ajmitch> do you really expect debian developers to agree on something?
<tseng> its not really right
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: of course not :)
<tseng> but there is a pretty consistany *MOTU* way of doing things
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> but cdbs+dpatch isn't always the best way to package something, for example
<Unfrgiven> tseng: yeah and the document should reflect that
<tseng> ajmitch: thats why there is cdbs-edit-patch
<tseng> *hide*
<Unfrgiven> tseng: does that even work fullly yet?
<tseng> Unfrgiven: sure does.
<tseng> i use it pretty reguarly
<tseng> but dpatch should be the one documented
<tseng> its more common
<Unfrgiven> ok.
<Unfrgiven> does the cdbs-edit-patch offer any distinct advantages over dpatch?
<tseng> yes, its a completely normal patch
<tseng> i can send it to other maintainers or upstream
<ajmitch> which failed with my package
<tseng> ajmitch: hm now that you mention it, what was i having trouble wiht..
<Unfrgiven> tseng: ah right. and do you still need to modify debian/rules to have the patches applied like dpatch or is it taken care of?
<ajmitch> my patch needed -p3
<tseng> patching inotify into muine it wanted to make another muine subdir
<ajmitch> simple-patchsys only tries up to -p2
<tseng> Unfrgiven: there is simple-patchsys.mk in cdbs
<tseng> Unfrgiven: that handles normal patches
<ajmitch> it was -p3 because of tarball.mk, though
<Unfrgiven> interesting. is there any real docos on cdbs-edit-patch? like if i need a 00list file, etc...
<tseng> you do not
<tseng> only put the patches in debian/patches
<tseng> and add simple-patchsys.mk
<Unfrgiven> too easy!
<ajmitch> it's very easy to use
<Unfrgiven> :)
<tseng> it magically works, for better or worse
<ajmitch> not quite foolproof, of course
<tseng> cdbs can actually be terribly confusing at some points
<tseng> because there is so much abstracted
<Unfrgiven> where does it not work right?
<ajmitch> blame jbailey :)
* ajmitch  hides
<tseng> Unfrgiven: -p3, apperantly
<ajmitch> that's just one example
<tseng> lets stick to dpatch
<tseng> if no one minds
<tseng> in terms of the guide / new maintainers
<Unfrgiven> yep sure thing
<whiprush> tseng: this inotify thing is pretty sex.
<jbailey> Blame me all you want, just make sure you ask ajmitch for help first ;)
<tseng> whiprush: damn right
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> jbailey: who's working on cdbs2 at the moment?
<jbailey> ajmitch: dilinger and I both.
<whiprush> tseng: just some of the other plugins and it'll rule.
<tseng> i did them
<Unfrgiven> jbailey: and hows the progress? :)
<tseng> im just not sharing
<whiprush> woo
<jbailey> Unfrgiven: It works.  Needs documentation and a test suite and we roll it out.
<tseng> whiprush: ruffle is crashing for me something fierce with mono 1.1.8
<ajmitch> jbailey: great, somewhere that I can play with it? :)
<Unfrgiven> jbailey: OMG! you're going to write documentation? already sounds better than cdbs1 ;)
<jbailey> ajmitch: build-common module on alioth.
<jbailey> Unfrgiven: It already has more docs than cdbs1
<jbailey> ajmitch: err, svn.debian.org
<Unfrgiven> jbailey: thats great, cant wait to play around with it.
<ajmitch> jbailey: right, google found it :)
<whiprush> tseng: ah, ok, so it's just not me.
<tseng> whiprush: you have it too?
<whiprush> yeah
<tseng> whiprush: test this
<tseng> its on playlist refill right?
<whiprush> even if I build it from source
<whiprush> yeah
<tseng> on certain songs
<whiprush> as soon as it empties and is supposed to fill, boom.
<tseng> ok turn off same artist/genre/audioscrobbler
<tseng> and try a fill again
<whiprush> ok
<whiprush> sec
<jbailey> Unfrgiven: It won't make UVF On July 7th, so look for it in Breezy+1 or probably early August in Debian.
<tseng> breezy+1
<tseng> mmmm, crack
<ajmitch> jbailey: how about universe for breezy?
<Unfrgiven> ajmitch: great idea!
<ajmitch> if we're allowed, of course
<tseng> the "we are supposed to be toking on the big launchpad bong" release
<Unfrgiven> tseng: when is launchpad releasing?
<ajmitch> when it's done :)
<tseng> Unfrgiven: we are supposed to build breezy+1 with it afaik
<jbailey> ajmitch: I guess could do it as a separate package for breezy.
<Unfrgiven> oh right... i thought it was in the breezy timeframe
<tseng> malone will be released in a few weeks
<tseng> which is scary, more of you need to be doing user testing
<Unfrgiven> its working now? last i checked (several weeks back) it kept having "internal errors"
<tseng> its still pretty crackful stuff
<tseng> Unfrgiven: there are a few
<ajmitch> jbailey: I'm guessing that the various cdbs rules would need to be migrated, eg gnome, python?
<jbailey> Yes, the syntax makes no attempt to be compatible.
<jbailey> speciically and PACKAGE/FOO: rules have to be completely rethought.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'll try & rework the gnue packages when it's near ready then :)
<jbailey> I haven't done the python stuff yet for cdbs2.
<jbailey> If you feel like diving in, I'd love it.
<jbailey> BEcause I know you have *so much* spare time. =)
<ajmitch> oh of course I do :)
<ajmitch> I'm not studying now ;)
<jbailey> We're not promising that the first release has every feature of the original.  The only features that get into the new version will have testsuites and some sanity to them.
<ajmitch> you know how much I love distutils
<ajmitch> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
<bddebian> ajmitch: What are you up to man?
<ajmitch> work
<bddebian> Oh yeah :-(
<ajmitch> you know, the thing that pays the bills :)
<bddebian> Oh believe me, I know. :-)
<ajmitch> how's your job going?
<bddebian> OK, but lots of hours. You?
<ajmitch> ok, but not fulltime work
<ajmitch> so I don't have as many hours
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> What does status patch in UniversCxxTransition mean?  Does that mean a patch has already been done?
<ajmitch> that there's a patch in debian BTS for it
<ajmitch> UniverseCxxTransition doesn't really record what we've done, afaik
<bddebian> Damn, I just don't know what to try to help with. :'-(
<ajmitch> ah, that is a problem
<ajmitch> there's still abit of c++ stuff to do
<ajmitch> most likely to be apps that FTFBS
<bddebian> ??
<ajmitch> fail to build from source
<ajmitch> ie, they crash & burn during compile
<tseng> whiprush: are you running mono1.1.6
<bddebian> ajmitch: I know what FTBFS is, I was asking what was a problem, and what C++ stuff :-)
<ajmitch> whatever happens to FTBFS that can be tracked to c++ ;)
<bddebian> ack, you're killing me dude
<bddebian> :-)
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch wishes ogra were around to bug..
<bddebian> ajmitch: Is c++ stuff on a different list?
<ajmitch> there is CxxLibraryList for the libs, and CxxApplicationList I think
<ajmitch> but that would be an overall list of c++ packages\
<ajmitch> not just apps that have issues
<bddebian> Oh
<ajmitch> since it would be a little hard to tell just what has issues
<ajmitch> many have been re-uploaded to get them to build against a new c++ abi
<ajmitch> but we have to check build logs for failures
<bddebian> Is: AC_CHECK_LIB(resolv, __res_search, foo, bar), valid?  This link says to use AC_TRY_LINK_FUNC() but that bombs.
<ajmitch> I have no idea :)
<bddebian> I was asking in general, but thanks for responding :-)
<bddebian> Sometimes I hate autoconf
<ajmitch> I don't seem to stay logged into revu for very long
<GazerWork> hi guys, a simple cuestion, executable files for a game package must be installed en /usr/games ?
<jamessan> GazerWork: http://www.nl.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.11
<GazerWork> jamessan, oh, I see, thx :) ... and what about game tools?, like level editors ?
<jamessan> those would just be a normal program, so I'd say /usr/bin
<GazerWork> jamessan, oks, thx
<skvidal> 'lo all
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Hello skvidal
<skvidal> was looking for \sh or siretart or sistpoty about REVU code but it doesn't seem like they're around
<Amaranth> um, shit
<Amaranth> "the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled unaniumously against Grokster today"
<Amaranth> i think this means i can get in trouble for pymusique :/
<skvidal> Amaranth: the ruling isn't as bad as it seems, really.
<Amaranth> oh
<skvidal> Amaranth: but people actively encouraging copyright infringement in the work are going to have trouble.
<Amaranth> i see, promotion
<skvidal> promotion is where it becomes sticky, right. You should expect a whole new batch of lawsuits, though.
<skvidal> the real question is whether or not apple will get one
<skvidal> their rip. mix. burn. campaign sure sounded like active promotion of copyright infringement
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> oh, that reminds me
<Amaranth> when the iPod came out in AUS the only way to put music on it was to rip CDs which afaik is illegal there
<skvidal> ripping cds isn't illegal
<skvidal> you're not circumventing copy protection when ripping cds
<Lathiat> It is in australia
<Lathiat> and still is
<skvidal> oh
<skvidal> sorry
<skvidal> you said AUS
<Lathiat> hasnothign to do with copy protection circumvention
<skvidal> I read that as US
<Amaranth> yeah
<Lathiat> or well, it could
<Lathiat> i just ripped a cd lastnight
<Amaranth> so apple was promoting copyright infringement there
<Lathiat> i've broken the lawn ow
<Lathiat> even though i paid $25 for the cd
<skvidal> Lathiat: I broke the lawn once too
<Amaranth> still are, unless they opened their store there
<Lathiat> you think thats bad
<Lathiat> thcheck this out
<Lathiat> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/0,2000061791,39199258,00.htm
<Amaranth> today was a big news day
<Lathiat> my life as a sysadmin just got scarier
* Lathiat sighs
<Amaranth> oh, those two sysadmins?
<Lathiat> yep
<Lathiat> there from an ISP in my city
<Amaranth> you're slower than slashdot
<Amaranth> that's sad :D
<skvidal> Lathiat: we run a bittorent server here, too, but the content is pretty much safe :)
<Lathiat> skvidal: thats not the problem
<Lathiat> the problem is
<Lathiat> i admin a box with1 500 users
<Lathiat> (www.bur.st)
<Lathiat> which provides free accounts
<Lathiat> every so often people do dodgy shit
<Lathiat> all of a sudden, now, i could be accountable for their actions
<skvidal> Lathiat: yeah - free accounts suck
<skvidal> sorry
<skvidal> that makes it hard to keep up with them
<Lathiat> skvidal: even if they werent free
<Lathiat> you get the same on commercial hosting
<Lathiat> we generally dont have tooo  much of a problem
<Lathiat> we screen accounts with a good application process
<Lathiat> mostdodgy people dont even get an account
<Lathiat> but shit happens
<Lathiat> they cant do much if they dont donate money
<skvidal> Lathiat: in us law there are a number of safe harbors for service providers
<skvidal> often referred to as common carrier rules
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> and i thought that held here too
<Lathiat> but these fuckers have just set precedent
* Lathiat sighs
<Lathiat> it better get thrown out
<Lathiat> or something
<skvidal> I'd be curious if it holds and if it doesn't damage the industry in the process
<Lathiat> at least with us
<Lathiat> wedealwith things at the first sign of dodgyness
<Lathiat> we've hada coupleletters, we dealt with the people responsible
<Lathiat> or well,icouldnt find one
<Lathiat> so i guess we could at least hold that we take care to deal with these problems
<Lathiat> the other stupid rulingis about things that can be used for illegal purposes
<Lathiat> no matter the lawful uses
<Lathiat> sure it wasworded 'with the prime intent of promoting sharing copyrighted files' (well, somethign like that)
<Lathiat> but it still screws well
<skvidal> which is one thing I appreciated about the grokster ruling today
<Lathiat> yeh thats exactly whatiwastalking about
<skvidal> it more or less pinned most-everything on intent and actions to promote the intent
<Lathiat> im glad it said that
<Lathiat> but still
<Lathiat> it leaves room
<Lathiat> to argue etc
<skvidal> certainly but it's better than a blanket (all p2p is bad)
<skvidal> b/c then things like torrent.gnome.org wouldn't be possible
<Lathiat> 'the world is fucked, sigh'
<whiprush> ogra: around?
<Amaranth> common carrier laws don't apply for servers in the US either
<Amaranth> well, they sort of do
<Amaranth> you'll get one notice to do something about the account, then they come after you
<Lathiat> sounds like those notices were only emails too
<Lathiat> which is totally bogus
<Amaranth> yeah, that sounds rights
<Amaranth> err, right
<Lathiat> theyre hardly legally binding, no confirmation of reception
<Lathiat> etc
<Lathiat> it should be registered mail
<Lathiat> before they can get all legal about it
<doko> ajmitch: ping
<ajmitch> pong
<doko> I'm missing a bug report for rapidsvn ;-)
<ajmitch> ah, sorry :)
<doko> not needed anymore this time, I did see it yesterday.
<ajmitch> I noticed zope (2.6) is in need of merging, what are your plans for it?
<ajmitch> actually it's been like that since may :)
<doko> we should drop it. we'll talk about zope at debconf5
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> when is debconf5?
<robitaille> ajmitch:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar
<robitaille> July 10th to 17th
<doko> ajmitch: libsigcx is missing the patch in bugzilla. why?
<doko> ogra, ajmitch: see 10975
<\sh> moins
<siretart> moin
<siretart> do we have some wiki page explaining basics with gnupg and whats about the 'strong set'?
<ivoks> howdy!
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hey dude
<\sh> hey Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> \sh: need some help with ACE and gmetadom
<Unfrgiven> \sh: neither build on gcc 3.4/4.0
<Unfrgiven> \sh: i cant seem to find patches on the redhat bugzilla
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ok..i will check it out this evening :) if you r ok with it
<Unfrgiven> \sh: is there anyway to setup a gentoo chroot?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: i suspect gentoo would have patches
<\sh> Unfrgiven: i can check it
<\sh> or you can download the portage tree
<Unfrgiven> \sh: are you sure thats ok? i dont want to unneccesarily overload you with work i committed to
<\sh> Unfrgiven: no its ok...I have the things on my todo :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: thanks very much :) i'll send you my debdiffs so at least you wont have to repeat the steps ive already taken. k?
<\sh> Unfrgiven: yeah...great :) sh@sourcecode.de :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: oh and if/when you resolve it be sure to tell me how you fixed it... so that i may learn :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: sure :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: right now, I'm working with siretart on his rocking review tool :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: kewl :) ive been a bit busy with life lately so i wasnt able to participate in the review day :(
<Unfrgiven> \sh: you wouldn't believe it! i got gmetadom to build.... finally!!!
<Unfrgiven> \sh: maybe ill have similar luck with ACE!
<Unfrgiven> \sh: gmetadom debdiff is uploaded... you should now be able to do gtkmathview
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<ivoks> hi
<ogra> \sh, ?
<ogra> \sh, could you fix this as soon as possible please: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=44904
<ogra> *g*
* Lathiat grins at ogra
<Treenaks> ogra: why not ask tseng ?
<ogra> Treenaks, hmm, good idea :)
<ajmitch> hi ogra, *
<ogra> hey ajmitch
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<ogra> ajmitch, ok if i upload your libwpd changes ? i applied your patch
<ogra> (somehow mdz assigned the bug to me)
* ogra uploads
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> nice idea
<\sh> Unfrgiven: thx :)
<tseng> Treenaks: ogra_ ?
<ogra_> tseng, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=44904
<tseng> erm..
* tseng froths at the mouth
<ogra_> tseng, i think we should make a metapackage called portage that installs the gentoo filemanager *g*
<ogra_> so we always have something to point people to ... and it might be funny :)
<tseng> no thanks
<ogra_> (see: apt-cache show gentoo)
<tseng> yeah I know it
<schweeb> ogra: it's quite unfortunate that that had to be the focus of the Debian NMG
<tseng> hm
<ogra> schweeb, the NMG is older then gentoo :)
<tseng> schweeb: it was written before gentoo as a distribution was known
<schweeb> I understand
<schweeb> just saying
<schweeb> it's unfortunate
<tseng> no need to be a hater really
<ajmitch> ogra: doesn't worry me who uploads changes :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, but i like to notify at least :)
<ajmitch> I more or less forgot about it once the bug was filed :)
<tseng> schweeb: so.. gmime is my second to last package
<tseng> schweeb: beagle being the top of the mountain
<schweeb> ?
<tseng> FIX YOUR S*IT
* tseng jokes
<schweeb> gmime?
<tseng> yes?
<schweeb> I did gsf-sharp
<tseng> werent you asking me about gmime the other day
<schweeb> gsf = g structured file, afaik
<schweeb> no
<tseng> eh
<tseng> ok
<schweeb> gsf
<tseng> well then we need that too
<schweeb> silly mr hale
<tseng> ill take beagle deps starting with G and ending in -sharp for $500 please
<schweeb> lol
<ogra> heh
<schweeb> well, I'll be busy most of this week
<tseng> theres only a dozen or so
<schweeb> had a datacenter fail yesterday
<tseng> gecko, gtk, glib, gnome, gsf, gmime
<tseng> etc
<tseng> my poor brain
<schweeb> datacenter failure is pure pain
<tseng> schweeb: good think you have lots of tape
<schweeb> I should still be sleeping ffs
<tseng> :(
<tseng> schweeb: we are so meeting in boston
* schweeb upgrades to the latest breezy crack
<schweeb> tseng: when is that?
<tseng> october I think
<schweeb> hopefully I get the time off work/school/*
<schweeb> which con is that?  a GNOME one?
<tseng> yes
<schweeb> it'll be entertaining watching jorge at a gnome con
<tseng> schweeb: you mean humping everyones leg?
<schweeb> it'll be like a little kid in a candy store... but only if the little kid is hyped up on crack and caffeine
<tseng> yep
<schweeb> the only good thing about this datacenter failure, is I get to sit back and yell at other groups until my shit gets fixed
<tseng> oh man thats the best
<schweeb> (which, we still have a bunch of HBA cards still down - NOT GOOD)
<tseng> Oh
<tseng> i need to totally pimp my boss on ubuntu support contracts today
<tseng> do we have any meetings today?
<tseng> TB
<tseng> ah, Unfrgiven is on the list today
<\sh> so...revu laeuft
<\sh> oh sorry,
<\sh> revu is running :)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> now we have to backbort lintian and linda from breezy to hoary
<ogra> huh ?
<tseng> :(
<\sh> so all the tests are not mixed up
<ogra> what for ?
<\sh> E: kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts_0.1-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file breezy
<\sh> N:
<ajmitch> so it doesn't complain about the distribution
<ogra> ah, the server runs hoary, now i get it
<ogra> but this only is a one line patch i guess
<\sh> ogra: i wouldn't run breezy on the server right now ;)
<tseng> eh rebuilding the packages would be just as easy
<ogra> heh
<tseng> as digging out the patch
<tseng> and rebuilding the package :)
<tseng> debian has a newer lintian than us i think
<\sh> i will rebuild the package...I mean it's not official and I would put it into backports repos ;)
<tseng> dave beckett was telling me my standards version was old
<tseng> my lintian doesnt know about a newer version :)
<ajmitch> alright..
<ajmitch> Debian version of wings3d is newer : 0.98.29b-1 vs 0.98.26-1ubuntu1
<ajmitch> Breezy version of atom4 is newer : 4.1-1build1 vs 4.1-1
<ajmitch> lincvs exists in universe but not debian
<ajmitch> Breezy version of tcm is newer : 2.20+TSQD-1build1 vs 2.20+TSQD-1
<ajmitch> now to do RFP/ITP lookups
<chrissturm> hey guys, darcs doesnt build because of the cpp transition. what do i need to do to update the deb and submit it?
<\sh> darcs?
<jamessan|work> distributed version control system written in haskell
<chrissturm> should be in main anyway :)
<\sh> chrissturm: i will have a look this evening
<\sh> oh..
<\sh> then: #ubuntu-devel ;)
<chrissturm> (i mean) should be move there
<chrissturm> once :)
<\sh> so it's universe? then i will have a look this evening on this package...
<\sh> send me a reminder mail please :)
<chrissturm> ash: i can also do it if you give me some help
<\sh> chrissturm: check the libs (think about the c2) check https://wiki.ubuntu.com//CxxLibraryList for the correct transistion packages
<chrissturm> ash; how do i display the build dependencies?
<\sh> create a bugzilla entry for darcs...and attach a debdiff patch so i can grab it, apply it, rebuild it, and upload it
<Lathiat> chrissturm: well, apt-get build-dep <package>will install them
<Lathiat> nfi how to display them
<\sh> apt-cache showsrc <package>
<chrissturm> lathiat: that wont work because it has missing dependencies because of the c2 transition
<chrissturm> thx \sh
<\sh> chrissturm: which b-ds are missing?
<chrissturm> ash: it depends on libgmp3
<\sh> main
<\sh>    gmp
<\sh>    libgmp3
<\sh>    libgmp3c2
<\sh>    4.1.4-6ubuntu1
<\sh> so it should build with: libgmp3-dev or something
<chrissturm> yep
<\sh> chrissturm: it's already done :)
<\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10648
<\sh> it should build
<chrissturm> \sh: darcs needs to be fixed to use the c2 package
<chrissturm> \sh thats what i want to do
<\sh> chrissturm: apt-get source darcs
<\sh> cd darcs-<version>
<\sh> cd debian
<\sh> vi control
<chrissturm> thx
<\sh> give be the build-depends: line please :)
<chrissturm> Build-Depends: ghc6 (>> 6.2), tetex-extra, libcurl3-dev, debhelper (>> 4.0), tetex-bin, tex4ht | latex2html | hevea, exim4 | mail-transport-agent, dvipng
<chrissturm> \sh: ghc6 isnt installable
<\sh> aha
<\sh> now i need to know what ghc6 is :)
<chrissturm> haskell compiler
<chrissturm> ghc6 - GHC - the Glasgow Haskell Compilation system
<chrissturm> looks like this is going to be more work :)
<ogra> looks like ghc6 only needs a recompile
<chrissturm> i'm getting the source right now
* \sh has a compile problem right now...
<\sh> hope the patch is working now
<chrissturm> when i do apt-get build-dep ghc6 it shows it cant satisfy the deps. how can i know what dep he is missing?
<\sh> chrissturm: pbuilder :) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<chrissturm> \sh, thx
<bddebian> Howdy
<chrissturm> \sh: do i need pbuilder if i already run breezy?
<\sh> chrissturm: sure..clean build environment and u see whats going wrong
<chrissturm> ok
<\sh> ogra: do u think it's a good idea to put revu on berlios`
<\sh> ?
<ogra> \sh, nope.... wait until we get the server in the DC
<\sh> ogra: i mean for development...so that debian can participate
<\sh> ogra: revu.ubuntu.linux-server.org ;)
<ogra> \sh, you mean the source ?
<\sh> yep
<\sh> now we have to hack the sbuild functionality in it
<ogra> \sh, just make a source package ;)
<\sh> hahaha  :)
<ogra> they can grab it
<\sh> ah...today is TB meeting right?
<bddebian> TB == Technical Board?
<ogra> i do the same with gnome power... netsnipe gets notified about every new package, i package it without -ubuntuX version... so i'm his upstream and he is mine *g*
<kiko> ogra, 10h to bugday?
<kiko> or was it postponed?
<chrissturm> hmm, pbuilder failed for me: I: Configuring dpkg-dev...
<chrissturm> W: Failure while configuring base packages.  This will be attempted 5 times.
<ogra> kiko, nope.... i'll have to write that announcement today...
<chrissturm> and then /usr/bin/apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot o pen shared object file: No such file or directory
<\sh> chrissturm: did u setup it the right way?
<chrissturm> i followed the howto on the wiki and replaced hoary with breezy
<chrissturm> \sh: doesnt seem so :D
<\sh> u r running breezy or hoary?
<chrissturm> breezy
<\sh> then u don't need the way over hoary to breezy :) replace from hoary howto: hoary with breezy ;)
<kiko> ogra, what does the great mdz say?
<chrissturm> \sh: sorry, dont get it
<chrissturm> i followed the howto, and replaced hoary with breezy.
<\sh> chrissturm: u r running breezy, so forget about hoary. check the howto, and replace every "hoary" word with "breezy"
<ogra> kiko, he said we would do it in any case iirc
<chrissturm> thats what i did
<ogra> kiko, you were there...
<\sh> chrissturm: and the update from hoary to breezy at the end?
<kiko> ogra, but my memory is worth jack foobs
<chrissturm> \sh: i did this:     sudo pbuilder create --distribution breezy
<ogra> kiko, smoke less pod ;)
<chrissturm> and every time the howto said hoary i used breezy instead
<chrissturm> the -create failed
<ogra> kiko, and drink less alcohol
<ogra> kiko, and wear a hat in the sun ;)
<\sh> chrissturm: ok..u adjusted the /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
<chrissturm> yep. does pbuilder write a log file?
<kiko> ogra, I'll need to write that all down if I am to remember it
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> u copied the files from /etc/apt/* to /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/
<\sh> u set allow-unauthenticed
<chrissturm> \sh: yep
<\sh> chrissturm: and u removed 99update-notifier from /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/apt.conf.d/
<chrissturm> right
<chrissturm> maybe pbuilder is broken
<\sh> it will write to /var/cache/pbuilder ...
<\sh> no i'm running it here on breezy :)
* chrissturm tries again
<chrissturm> is it normal that i have both /etc/pbuilderrc and /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc?
<chrissturm> never mind, its a link :)
<chrissturm> \sh: i'm clueless now
<bddebian> Does all of the stuff on UniverseCandidates not have a Debian equivalent or should Debian be checked first?
<chrissturm> can someone help me getting pbuilder running?
<\sh> chrissturm: ask auf #ubuntu-devel about pbuilder...I'm a bit busy right now :(
<chrissturm> thx
<chrissturm> ok, i get it. its not possible to install breezy with pbuilder directly, i need to first install hoary and then update to breezy
<chrissturm> i thought the wiki was outdated and i can go to breezy directly
<Lathiat> hm, i installed breezy directly
<Lathiat> oh well )
<chrissturm> well, lets hope it works with hoary first, then breezy
<chrissturm> ok, first hoary then update to breezy worked
<\sh> ogra: we need to have a meeting just before dholbach will leave for berlin ;)
<ogra> \sh, yes...
<bddebian> Am I just asking dumb questions or something?
<\sh> bddebian: debian should be checked first
<bddebian> Thank you
<bddebian> If it's in Debian, how do you folks pull it?  Do you add a deb-src for Debian or just grab it manually?
<chrissturm> hmm, the build deps are in *.dsc and in debian/control. do i need to change both?
<chrissturm> (when using pbuilder)
<\sh> debian/control
<\sh> then debuild -S
<\sh> and then sudo pbuilder <package>.dsc
<chrissturm> thx!
<ogra> or -S -sa if its a new upstream version
<chrissturm> ok, so if i just fix build deps i just use -S
<ogra> and use fakeroot if working on the source package, not sudo or root
<ogra> (where root tasks are needed)
<\sh> and send the debdiff to bugzilla (it's the best right now)
<chrissturm> hmm, this darcs stuff seems to be too much for me right now. darcs depends on ghc6, ghc6 depends on haddock, and  haddock build depends on ghc6 | ghc5
<ogra> its a compiler, isnt it ? compilers are most often depending on themselves
<chrissturm> yeah. but how do i work around this?
<ogra> so you need one working copy installed at leas, to bottstrap them
<ogra> i.e. having a ghc binary installed from tgz, then build haddock on it without the ghc build dep, then build ghc on top of that as a package and rebuild haddock with the added build dep on ghc.... you have to reak the circle once and fix it afterwards
<ogra> s/reak/break
<chrissturm> hmm, where do i find debuild?
<Lathiat> install devscripts
<Lathiat> and it appears
<Lathiat> i think
<\sh> apt-file search debuild
<chrissturm> thx. i thought it was in build-essential
<\sh> devscripts: usr/bin/debuild
<ogra> chrissturm, sudo apt-get install apt-file ;)
<ogra> apt-file update && apt-file search debuild
<ogra> oh, missing one sudo
<chrissturm> np, thanks for all the help
<Lathiat> hmmq
<Lathiat> apt-file is missing a dependancy on curl
<chrissturm> lathiat: works for me
<Lathiat> chrissturm: because you already ahd curl installed proabbly :)
<chrissturm> hehe, prolly :)
<chrissturm> ogra: the trick with breaking the circle and closing it afterwards, how will that work on the build servers then?
<Lathiat> chrissturm: depending onthe situation it may require some manual handling
<chrissturm> hehe, who needs haskell anyway.
<ogra> ghc ?
<ogra> :)
<chrissturm> sad, because darcs is really nice
<\sh> chrissturm: u wanna give up?
<chrissturm> how do i install the ghc binary into the pbuilder chroot
<chrissturm> ?
<\sh> via hooks
<chrissturm> \sh: i thought it would be easier....
<\sh> or it should fetch the ghc5
<\sh> or an old ghc6 binary..if it's correct what you showed me
<chrissturm> ok
<chrissturm> \sh: there is no ghc6 or ghc5 binary because both depend on libgmp3
<\sh> well, lets see if I can find the time ;)
<ivoks> hi all
<bddebian> Hello ivoks
<\sh> ivoks: u can upload now? ,-)
<chrissturm> \sh: if you could look at it that would be really great. its just too much for me since i'm very new to building debs and pbuilder. :D
<ivoks> \sh: didn't try :)
<ogra> guys, TB meeting time has changed to 17:00 UTC
<ivoks> oh
<ivoks> 90 minutes
<ogra> yep
<\sh> argl...i hope I can manage it...
<\sh> ok...going home :) tb is much more important then sitting here ;) and waiting for tickets :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> so... new X are coming in september?
<ivoks> breezy will be frozen when that happens :(
<l337> but we have the.... BACKPORTS!!!
<\sh> re
<\sh> hmmm...a quick shower would be good...so...:)
* siretart is off for today. bye
<siretart> cu tomorrow
<uniq> cu.
<\sh> siretart: meeting ;)
<\sh> 17UTC ;)
<tseng> hi..
<\sh> hey tseng
<siretart> \sh: sorry, I cannot attend. Tuesday evening is a very bad day for me :(
<siretart> \sh: perhaps you can represent the revu team? you know now almost every details, and the most critical feature is elma anyway
<siretart> but I will read the backlog ;)
<\sh> siretart: sure..
<siretart> *wave*
<\sh> siretart: have fun and a good evening :)
<siretart> thanks :)
<\sh> revu is growing
<ogra> TB meeting in 10 minutes !
<\sh> added revu to agenda ,-)
<\sh> ogra: can you provide me with your source for the logfiles of lamont? we would like to incoorperate your syntax highlighting to elma :)
<ogra> oki, i'll mail it to you
<\sh> ogra: thx :)
<ogra> my server will be happy if it looses some load :)
* ivoks hopes \sh took the shower :)
<\sh> yes :)
<\sh> ogra: where is the goal list? the one on uduwiki?
<ogra> yep
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: where are you when we need you? :))
<\sh> he sleeps?,-)
<ivoks> he thinks meeting is at 22:00
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> we should put him in topic
<\sh> no..he sleeps..:)
<ivoks> he's from australia?
<\sh> yepp
<Lathiat> indeedly
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | please file universe bugs in https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs | IT'S REVIEW DAY TODAY! JOIN US AND FEEL THE LOVE! | NEW package? go here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/ || Welcome Unfrgiven as new MOTU *rock*
<tseng> ogra: so Unfrgiven was approved?
<ogra> yep :)
<ivoks> motu team grows
<ivoks> i'm no longer last on the list :)
<tseng> ogra: great, i was going to come ++ him
<tseng> but had to lunch
<ogra> he is through :)
<\sh> but psst...it's a surprise for Unfrgiven ;)
<ivoks> ok :)
<Amaranth> someone else got approved for something without being at the meeting?
<\sh> no. DanielN_atw is due in two weeks
<Amaranth> whew
<\sh> and we need to guide him more in those 2 weeks
<\sh> so please support him whenever possible...cause i will have less time next week
<ivoks> np
<ivoks> we should upload all new packages to revu? even those on wiki?
<\sh> ivoks: w8t :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> just for few minutes :)
<\sh> we will migrate all the stuff to a new server:) but u can upload right now
<ivoks> siretart really did great job
<\sh> yeah...and it's running on revu.ubuntu.linux-server.org right now :) i'm hacking elma support in ;)
<ivoks> i know it's your server :)
<ivoks> debian, right?
<\sh> ubuntu :)
<ivoks> with broken linda and litian
<\sh> hoary
<ivoks> oh, that's something new
<\sh> not for long:)
<\sh> siretart can't install a sbuild
<\sh> but i can...so we try to move it to my server and try to establish the build environment
<ivoks> great
<ivoks> it would build automaticly
<ivoks> time for revu :)
<\sh> looks like
<ivoks> ok guys, i could provide machine with root access
<ivoks> with 200GB of disk space
<bddebian> ivoks: Sounds perfect to an Ubuntu Hurd archive. ;-)
<ivoks> :)))
<ivoks> hurd maniac
<bddebian> :-)
<ivoks> gigabit link, lot's of space, distro we want, enviorment we want... not interested? :)
<ivoks> and no, no hurd :)
<bddebian> :'-(
<ivoks> bddebian: do you have team for hurd?
<bddebian> ivoks: No, I haven't done anything yet.  I'm trying to gather some more info.
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> if you decide to work on it, let me know
<bddebian> Plus I was hoping to get a little more exposure to the Ubuntu "world" first :-)
<ivoks> maybe i could set some enviorment for you
<bddebian> Well I want to talk to Jeff in more detail also, but I knew he is VERY busy. :-(
<Lathiat> im pondering an alpha port
<Lathiat> ive got my hands half on 10 dual 800mhz alphas
<bddebian> That's cool
<Lathiat> i washoping to talk to someone to see whats involved
<Lathiat> and whether i have the time to look at it :)
<Lathiat> and whether itdbe worth it :)
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> Lathiat: hahaha...i just was thinking about distcc and ccache buildd over lan and wan ;)
<\sh> hooking distcc inside a pbuilder or sbuild env and ccache as well ;)
<Lathiat> heh
<ivoks> ok, see you guys
<\sh> cu ivoks :)
<tseng> hi
<bddebian> Hello tseng
<Lathiat> tseng: hrm muineis pretty goodnow, all itneeds is to automatically continue queueing stuffin my playlist not haveme do it myself :)
<tseng> Lathiat: it does dude
<tseng> preference tab
<tseng> refill playlist
<tseng> in ruffle
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> look at that
<Lathiat> hiding heh
<tseng> when you get to the last song
<tseng> it gives you 10 more
<Lathiat> nice
<tseng> but
<tseng> if i turn on "same artist/genre/audioscobbler" in the main window
<tseng> it causes segfaults somehow
<tseng> (please debug this for me :)
<Lathiat> well
<Lathiat> min edidn tsegfault
<Lathiat> but i didnt get new songs on the end
<tseng> well
<tseng> did you load the track list in ruffle
<tseng> you did something wrong :)
<tseng> on preferences again, import tracks
<Lathiat> i have keep filled etc
<tseng> no
<tseng> import tracks
<Lathiat> i did that
<tseng> it goes across with a pgoress bar for a few minutes
<tseng> ok
<Lathiat> i could generate a list and add that
<Lathiat> that works good
<tseng> well fix your shit, then
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> its broken
<tseng> you're broken
<tseng> *G*
<Lathiat> sif
<Lathiat> i'll break you ;p
<Lathiat> ok after restart it worked
<tseng> rock on
<Lathiat> its not segfaultingbut ater turning all of those on it just doesnt add anythign to the playlist anymore
<tseng> um
<Lathiat> (genra/artist/scrobbler)
* tseng shrugs, if you find a fix tell me
<tseng> i have not figured out the cause you
<tseng> yet?
<Lathiat> nope
<Lathiat> i'll fiddle later
<Lathiat> its bedtime now
<ivoks> Unfrgiven: still sleeping? :)
<herve> heya!
<ivoks> herve:
<bddebian> Howdy herve
<ivoks> we have a new member
<ivoks> Unfrgiven
<herve> hehe
<herve> congrats to him then!
<ivoks> yep
* tseng dies
<ivoks> ok, network manager looks good, but it would be nice if it would have menu entry or applet entry :)
<tseng> still no planet gnome
<tseng> ivoks: NOPE
<tseng> ivoks: its too elite
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> tseng: can we use something different than bind9?
<herve> wow, 424 messages in breezy-changes?
<herve> I don't remember being offline for that long
<tseng> ivoks: ask thom
<ivoks> that bind is really killing me
<\sh> oh...thunder and lightning are coming :)
<ivoks> i'll try to work something out...
<herve> ok got it, the C++ transition is over
<ivoks> herve: apps aren'y
<ivoks> herve: apps aren't
<herve> \sh, you lucky!
<ivoks> i had rain allready here :(
<herve> ivoks, but I think I read their upload announce
<\sh> herve: no...some packages are left..
<herve> ha ok
<herve> the automatic process doesn't cover 100%
<ivoks> ok, what can I do for MOTU?
<ivoks> i want to do something
<ivoks> :)
<bddebian> Me too :-)
* herve wants holidays
<ivoks> bddebian: let's think of something...
<ivoks> bddebian: no, hurd isn't an option
<ivoks> :>
<bddebian> ivoks: Hurd! Doh, you beat me to it.. :-)
<herve> there are probably bugs in malone...
<herve> did I say "probably"? :-)
<ivoks> yes, there are...
<bddebian> Yeah but they're "hard" ;-)
<ivoks> ok, i'll fix mozilla-liferea
<ivoks> it should depend on firefox, not mozilla-browser
<ivoks> or |
<herve> api compatible?
<ivoks> i'll check it first
<\sh> hmm..cdbs
<ivoks> i want to do it!
<ivoks> i never did a bugfix :(
<herve> nothing much
<herve> synchronizing with debian is another task
<ivoks> ok, how do you do sync?
<ivoks> changelogs are different
<jamessan|work> ivoks: according to liferea's site, it requires mozilla. firefox isn't enough.
<herve> as I learnt it
<herve> you get the latest debian package
<ivoks> jamessan|work: ok
<herve> and put back any appropriate ubuntu patch
<ivoks> but it opens links in firefox
<herve> forget the ubuntu changelog
<ivoks> ok
<herve> it opens links in the gnome default browser I think
<jamessan|work> ivoks: well, that's probably it just using the default... yeah
<ivoks> herve: yes
<ivoks> i ment to say it can open links in firefox
<ivoks> herve: and then just add changes in changelog?
<herve> I think it's just giving "http://..." as an argument to the executable
<ivoks> nope
<ivoks> it uses mozilla
<herve> ivoks, add an entry versionned ubuntu1 saying "Resync with Debian"
<ivoks> it needs mozilla
<Burgundavia> wow, gnome-terminal is now lightning fast
<ivoks> herve: yeah, i know that..
<herve> or better, all changes are merged and you just upload the debian source package
<ivoks> Burgundavia: yep, much faster
<herve> not to download for me ;-)
<ivoks> ok, i understand how
<ivoks> d/l debian and ubuntu source
<ivoks> apply ubuntu's patches to debian source
<herve> ... where appropriate :-)
<ivoks> and do regular ubuntuization of package
<herve> scott's site may help for having the diff
<ivoks> herve: of course
<ivoks> liefrea uses mozilla to render pages inside the liefrea
<herve> I think of 3 I'll merge soon
<Unfrgiven> hey all
<Unfrgiven> meeting is over already?
<\sh> Unfrgiven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Unfrgiven> i thought it was 20:00 UTC?
<\sh> *hugs* welcome to the MOTU
<Unfrgiven> hey \sh!!! thanks :D
<Unfrgiven> OMG IM SO EXCITED
<Unfrgiven> WOOOHOOOOOO
<\sh> congratulations and celebrations :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: u know what to do now? :)
<\sh> (after drinking the bottle of champagne?)
<Unfrgiven> well i guess i have to now look at learning dput?
<Unfrgiven> its 5:50 am here.... i thought the meeting was at 20:00 UTC?
<herve> yo, Unfrgiven!
<herve> welcome to the fearless motu club!
<Unfrgiven> according to my watch it sez 19:51 UTC
<Unfrgiven> herve: thanx dude :)
<\sh> yeah..it was a bit earlier cause mdz couldn't attend at 20 utc
<herve> Unfrgiven, I saw an announce on the ubuntu-dev list
<Unfrgiven> \sh: ah ok....
<Unfrgiven> man im so pumped!!!!
<Unfrgiven> this is exciting stuff
<\sh> Unfrgiven: anyways, you're approved MOTU now
<bddebian> Congrats Unfrgiven
<Unfrgiven> \sh: thanks very much for your support. i just read the irc log :)
<Unfrgiven> ogra: thanks for yours too :)
<Unfrgiven> bddebian: thanks :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: for what? u did the job :)
<\sh> and I'm just burning my laptop again...
<Unfrgiven> \sh: for all your help and speaking for me :)
<\sh> 2 pbuilders at the same time...one hoary one breezy...*ugs*
<Unfrgiven> hehe cool :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: ah come on :)
<\sh> hello rain? where r u?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: since the meeting is already done, i might just get a bit more sleep :)
<\sh> hehe :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: although its gonna be hard to get some i should really try!
<herve> \sh, try to dance around!
<Unfrgiven> \sh: so i guess ill cya on irc in a few hours :)
<\sh> I'm just finished with build gmetadom :)
<\sh> Unfrgiven: tomorrow morning for me yes :)
<herve> Unfrgiven, where are you located?
<Unfrgiven> \sh: cool :) with my debdiff?
<Unfrgiven> herve: Australia
<\sh> Unfrgiven: check breezy-changes :)
<Unfrgiven> \sh: hmmm havent got that mail yet....
<Unfrgiven> \sh: guess it'll happen soon :)
<\sh> will come in 5 mins at least :)
<Unfrgiven> for now im going to head off... and talk to you all shortly
* Unfrgiven jumps for joy!
* Unfrgiven and then somehow tries to sleep again :)
<Unfrgiven> good night all :)
<\sh> cu Unfrgiven  :) sleep well :)
<herve> night
<Unfrgiven> thanks :)
<herve> so I guess C++ uploads are still frozen?
<\sh> Changed-By: Ankur Kotwal <ankur.kotwal@gmail.com>
<ivoks> damn nv driver
<JanC> I see there was some talk about linode vservers during the meeting, why not use a real server ?
<\sh> JanC: I'm using a real server :) but i think canonical has some deals with them. and a vserver is good enough for some things
<JanC> linode vservers seem to be more expensive than dedi servers at some hosting providers like hetzner...
<\sh> JanC: yes, but hetzner is sorry to say, more shiddy then 1&1 and schlund and hosteurope together
<ivoks> i offered my server, but no... :)
<mitsuhiko> nothing is more shiddy than hosteurope
<JanC> I have no problems with hetzner
<\sh> it's around the corner here ;) so i can be there really fast :)
<JanC> of course we use it only for hobby stuff
<JanC> not for a webshop or anything that needs high availability  :)
<\sh> JanC: well we have there 1/2 rack at hosteurope and 2tb free traffic so it's ok :)
<JanC> :)
<JanC> we have "only" 350 GiB traffic a month ;)
<JanC> and it's mainly used for mail at the moment  :)
<\sh> Summary for  51 IPs:   87.922,39    407.475,46    495.397,85
<\sh> 87GB IN 407GB OUT :)
<herve> hi daniel
<robitaille> which daniel?
<robitaille> we are a few around here...
<herve> well you, you just arrived
<robitaille> hi :)
<robitaille> when you just arrive in a channel, you never know if you are jumping right in the middle of another conversation
<herve> but I find calling people by their nickname so impersonal :-)
<uniq> \sh: can i just re-upload a updated version of a package to revu, and the old source will be replaced - or will it make a new entry?
<robitaille> in my case, when I see "daniel", I keep thinking it is for "daniels"
<ivoks> when I see Ante, i think of my self :)
<ivoks> not many Antes arround :)
<siretart> back from course. good evening everybody!
<herve> hello
<siretart> uniq: a new entry will be created, because revu lists "uploads"
<uniq> siretart: ok thanks.
<ivoks> siretart: revu did good
<uniq> revu did very good.
<ivoks> on meeting
<siretart> :)
<siretart> I'm happy to hear that. just go on and use it! :)
<ivoks> you know what would be good?
<ivoks> connect revu with jabber
<ivoks> \sh: i saidd jabber :)
<siretart> ivoks: uuuh, that would be great. if you know how to do it, write an interface, I'll happily include that :)
<ivoks> so it would send message on upload/review
<ivoks> siretart: i could try
<uniq> siretart: so.. when i do a change (as for ipodslave the copyright change) the idea is that i shouldn't upload anything?
<siretart> ivoks: dholbach already requested rss feeds
<ivoks> uniq: upload, but do a + on version
<ivoks> siretart: heh, that would be good too
<siretart> uniq: time will teach us best practices how to use revu. I think every to revu should be prepared with the intention to get it uploaded to universe.
<ivoks> i think \sh and I could workout jabber thingy
<siretart> uniq: revu is just a tool for faciliating the reviewing and sponsoring itself.
<uniq> siretart: sure. it would be good with a function to 'update' the online sources without creating a new entry in the list.
<uniq> for tracking comments on each package.
<siretart> uniq: you mean a possibility to update uploads.. hmm. that would be great. but I'm unsure how to implement that
<ivoks> siretart: on upload, search database for same name of package, if egsist, replace it, leaving comments
<uniq> siretart: yes exactly.. update uploads. could be as simple as a 'delete-old-sources' button in the webinterface.
<siretart> \sh: thanks for your standing in at the meeting. I just read the backlog: ROCK!
<uniq> or.. even better something like ivoks idea  :)
<siretart> uniq: that button (it's called "nuke upload") is already available and only available for the admins atm
<siretart> uniq: do you think it would help to allow users to nuke their own uploads?
<ivoks> we would have busy server :)
<uniq> siretart: also. i miss the possibility to add comments to my own uploads. an example is kio-locate where i have a intentional linda error.. would be ok for me to be able to tell the reviewers that somehow.
<uniq> siretart: yeah.. would be great imho.
<ivoks> ok, we should download the revu source
<ivoks> and create patches
<ivoks> lot of words never did any good :)
<siretart> ivoks: hm. the current implementation of the database scheme differentiates between source packages and uploads. perhaps you should look at the ER schema to understand this
<siretart> uniq: ok, you conviced me. contributors definitly should be able to comment
<ivoks> siretart: i didn't review it, but i intend too
<ivoks> but first, let's get some sleep :)
<ivoks> n8 all
<siretart> ivoks: hehe :) - gn8 ivoks
<mitsuhiko> gn8
<uniq> gnite ivoks.
<\sh> siretart: ah :)
<\sh> siretart: i updated the code a bit ;) directories are shown now with <dir> instead of a "-" ...and now I'm writing on a sourcedir parser ;)
<uniq> siretart: maybe a option to just re-upload the diff would be good? - if it's easy to implement. for huge packages uploading the orig is a pain.
<uniq> 'nuke everything except orig.tar.gz' or something like that.
<uniq> just throwing out ideas here.. :)
<siretart> \sh: rock!
<siretart> uniq: I'm not quite sure how to detect if an upload updates another one. I'd rather implement something which downloads the origtarball from the archive if not supplied
<uniq> siretart: it's not always in the archive.
<siretart> uniq: could you please check if you can comment on your own uploads?
<uniq> sure.
<\sh> siretart: what about a webinterface for uploading .dsc and .diff.gz if a sourcepackage is already there?
<\sh> after the first review
<siretart> uniq: yes, that's the difficulty. But I think a script which checks if the orig.tar.gz is in the archive and if yes, downloading it would help. if its not there, then many (in fact most) following automated tests would fail
<siretart> \sh: that could be a solution: to offer an different upload way via webinterface. in that case, only the .dsc and diff.gz would be necessary to upload
<siretart> good idea, will think about it how to implement
<\sh> and changes as well
<siretart> of course. thats part of the source package. in fact, a new source package would have to be uploaded
<\sh> yeah but when uploading with -sa, the source.changes will be uploaded as well
<\sh> sorry without -sa
<siretart> yeah
<uniq> siretart: it's still the one at tauware.de right? - in that case, no, i can't comment on my uploads.
<siretart> hm
<siretart> uniq: is your login the same as the email mention in the headline of details.py?
<uniq> yes.
<siretart> hm. ok. debugging
<herve> night all
<\sh> hmm...debugging jabberd2_cvs20050628
<\sh> sistpoty: welcome :) heard the good news?
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<sistpoty> do you mean, that sbuild works?
<\sh> sistpoty: sbuild works, i'm trying to put it now into revu...
<sistpoty> great :)
<\sh> sistpoty: and we will get a new home for revu and elma :)
<\sh> thx to mark and tb :)
<sistpoty> very cool :)
<uniq> siretart: now i can add comments.
<uniq> and just for my own packages too. great work siretart :)
<siretart> :)
<uniq> you might want to remove "advocate this upload" for contributors.
<siretart> huhu sistpoty :)
<siretart> uniq: just finished :)
<uniq> and one more thing.. the login information is sendt whenever you reload the front page.. is that necessary?
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> uniq: you mean the string "logged in as foo@example.com"?
<uniq> siretart: no, my username and password.
<uniq> ehm. wait.
<siretart> uniq: err, ah, I think I understand you, but I think that's the way webapplications are intended to work
<\sh> sistpoty: we need u as member and motu :)
<siretart> ACK! :)
<sistpoty> thanks, i'm honoured... :)
<sistpoty> but give me at least one month time (next exam is exactly one month away)
<sistpoty> and /me didn't start learning for it yet :(
<siretart> sistpoty: you mean bs?
<sistpoty> exactly
<bddebian> heh
<siretart> oh
<siretart> well. thats absolutly possible in 4 weeks..
<sistpoty> yes... but i don't want to have too many distracting things when i should learn g
<Mithrandir> tseng: beagled becomes happy if you have symbolic links which points to themselves
<siretart> sistpoty: wise decision :)
<sistpoty> uniq: do you mean the postdata that is sent (if you reload after login)?
<uniq> yes.
<siretart> uniq: press ctrl-l and then enter on the main page
<tseng> Mithrandir: you mean unhappy?
<siretart> uniq: now reloading should work without resending postdata
<uniq> siretart: what should ctrl-l do?
<Mithrandir> tseng: yeah, unhappy.
<tseng> yeah
<uniq> i use konqueror.
<tseng> Mithrandir: file a bug? :)
<siretart> uniq: get the cursor in the url bar
<Mithrandir> tseng: that is, it throws an exception in file_filter.
<Mithrandir> tseng: nah, I prefer to nag you on IRC.
<Mithrandir> :P
<tseng> Mithrandir: when gnome bugzilla is back, that is
<Mithrandir> tseng: I'll see if I remember
<tseng> oh, they are rewritting the filters anyway
<uniq> siretart: correct. it works. but it's not optimal :)
<tseng> Mithrandir: can you bug me if it happens in the next upstream?
<Mithrandir> sure
<tseng> or is that too far off
<Mithrandir> tseng: there's loads of scary warnings here, like: DEBUG: Caught SocketException -- we probably need to launch a helper: Connection refused
<tseng> Mithrandir: beagle likes to talk to you
<Mithrandir> tseng: it's chatty, yes
<Mithrandir> tseng: it appears to work, though. :-)
<tseng> thats a big plus
<Mithrandir> (on i386, though)
<tseng> i really need one of these whining amd64 users to be filing bugs
<tseng> or to pool their money and get me and amd64 :D
<Mithrandir> I'm going to start doing that once I finish moving house
<tseng> that would be rad
<Mithrandir> amd64s are cheap.
<tseng> i helped trow, their lead i think, install breezy on amd64
<tseng>  a few weeks ago
<tseng> Mithrandir: that doesnt mean i want to drop a few hundred dollars on it to help users make it work. im already investing my time
<tseng> they arent *that* cheap
<Mithrandir> tseng: true.
<JanC> tseng : I'll try breezy amd64 on a turion in the comming weeks  :)
<Mithrandir> tseng: shame you're on the wrong continent or I could have given you my old once I get my dualcore sometime in the fall
<tseng> if you have a bit of time to be filing bugs upstream for amd64 stuff that is obviously not a packaging issue
<tseng> that would really help out
<tseng> anyone for that matter. everyone who complains to me about amd64 is wasting their time as I cannot work with upstream on test cases etc
<tseng> Nafallo: THIS MEANS YOU
<tseng> :D
<tseng> great, no mail from infinity
<tseng> Unfrgiven: congrats
<tseng> Unfrgiven: sorry i didnt make it to ++ you
<ajmitch> morning
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-26
<antinobody> no...
<siretart> fbond: done
<fbond> thanks!
<antinobody> I'm debdiffing the dapper package vs the debian unstable
<antinobody> and for some reason it complains about not finding the public keys
<fbond> need to install debian-keyring, maybe?
<fbond> (is that what that package is called?)
<crimsun> I've never gotten that, and I don't have debian-keyring installed.
<antinobody> indeed it is weird
<antinobody> I'll try that, I suppose
<fbond> which public keys is it looking for, yours , or someone elses (the package developers)
<antinobody> elses
<antinobody> it has mine
<fbond> anyone like to look at midisport-firmware on revu?  Just uploaded after re-working the maintainer files (that download/install/remove firmware)?
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> is that free?
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> hi bddebian
<antinobody> hi bddebian
<antinobody> well, the debian-keyring makes it stop complaining about one of the keys
<antinobody> I have the ubuntu-keyring, so I dunno what's up
<bddebian> Hello antinobody
<fbond> crimsun: not exactly free.  MidiMan/Maudio allows the firmware to be distributed with the source package of my package
<antinobody> any way to check what pub-key a .dsc was produced with?
<antinobody> then at least I could figure out which one was left
<fbond> my package is stripped of firmware, and re-downloads the source package at install time
<bddebian> Ack, dinner time
<crimsun> fbond: err, ok. So a multiverse candidate.
<fbond> crimsun, yes, I suppose it would be multiverse...
<fbond> I guess my control file should say so.
<fbond> vim didn't like multiverse in there, though
<fbond> be nice is vim was trained for ubuntu control files
<crimsun> fbond: no, the component override is handled server-side
<fbond> component override ... haven't heard that phrase before.  How does the server know that midisport-firmware belongs in multiverse?
<crimsun> fbond: the archive team sets that in an override on the server.
<fbond> hmm, revu is not showing the most recent version of my package ... how long is the delay between scans of incoming?
<TheMuso> Hey all.
<crimsun> fbond: June 25 18:05 ?
<crimsun> 'lo TheMuso, arrived home safely I take it?
<TheMuso> Indeed I did.
<TheMuso> And feeling a lot better after a good night's sleep. :)
<fbond> crimsun, that date/time is correct, but the details are for the previous upload...
<fbond> perhaps my previous mistake of uploading a binary package disrupted the normal order of things...
<fbond> ok, nm, just fixed
<crimsun> time for great bzr justice.
<fbond> gotta run ... also uploaded "lash" to revu, if anyone has time for that
<fbond|away> if anyone is graciously looking over my packages, please hold up for a few, I hadn't uploaded .orig.tar.gz files.  thanks, and sorry.
<TheMuso> Hey LaserJock
<TheMuso> I gather you got home safely?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, relatively. I got really sick the last day and am trying to figure out what all I need to replace from my stolen wallet
<LaserJock> TheMuso: basically, the good was really good, but the bad was really bad ;-)
<TheMuso> Ouch. That really sucks.
<LaserJock> yeah, well ...
<crimsun> sorry to hear
<crimsun> sounds like a pretty standard dev conf, then ;)
<LaserJock> at least nobody lost their laptop, that I know of
<crimsun> something really crappy normally occurs at each dev conf
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I know how it feels
<crimsun> heh, I'm still awaiting my luggage from Baltimore, MD
<crimsun> last I checked it was in Dallas, TX
<TheMuso> I'm just lucky that nothing of mine went missing for my first trip alone. :)
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah, this was my first trip overseas. I can't I'm exactly eager for my next trip
<TheMuso> crimsun: Now that really sucks.
<crimsun> eh, it could be worse. My house could have been obliterated by a hurricane.
<TheMuso> True that.
<LaserJock> crimsun: I managed to stuff everythin in my carry on so I wouldn't have to worry about loosing luggage
<TheMuso> Where do you live anyway?
<crimsun> TheMuso: Greensboro, NC
<TheMuso> Ah ok
<crimsun> LaserJock: I normally haul my own luggage, but all the flights were overbooked so I was forced to check it
<crimsun> anyhow, back to Scott's bzr pages
<LaserJock> crimsun: bummer
<LaserJock> crimsun: the "no more source packages" stuff?
* ajmitch had better start packing, flight leaves in <24 h
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Where you off to?
<ajmitch> australia
<ajmitch> aka west island
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<LaserJock> heh
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> crimsun: unfortunately I didn't get to go to any of the BOFs for that, I'm really interested in it
<fbond> so ... what's involved with getting packages contributed to Ubuntu into Debian after that?
<fbond> or is there a document I can reference?
<crimsun> you're going backward
<crimsun> if you want it in Debian, get it into Debian first. It'll be autosynced into Ubuntu.
<fbond> Hmm.  What happens to packages accepted via REVU?
<crimsun> I mean, you can swim upstream, but it takes more effort.
<tseng> hi crimsun
<fbond> Right.
<crimsun> revu is specific to Ubuntu currently. Debian has a separate admittance process per se.
<crimsun> 'lo tseng
<fbond> I had a few packages in dapper that went in via revu.
<fbond> They need to go back into revu to get into edgy?
<crimsun> fbond: no, once they're in Ubuntu, they're in.
<crimsun> (unless you request them to be removed)
<tseng> dsd said nice things about you
<crimsun> tseng: heads-up in case you use rxvt-unicode*: Decklin has changed the semantics of rxvt-unicode-lite, and it no longer support Xft fonts by default, which will become apparent once 7.7-4 (or newer) is synced
<tseng> crimsun: ok, i dont use lite
<crimsun> ah, ok.
<tseng> i have 60gb
<fbond> so if a package is in Ubuntu, then someone else submits the same package to Debian, does the Debian package take precedence on the next Ubuntu-Debian sync?
<crimsun> fbond: no, there's a permanent delta at that point, which is unfortunate (and has occurred in the past)
<fbond> So, in the interest of minimizing delta, it would be good to try to get a revu'd pacckage into Debian, right?
<crimsun> fbond: before getting it into Ubuntu, yes
<fbond> and if it's too late for that?
<crimsun> then go ahead and get it into Debian. The next packaging revision, just manually take the Debian source package as authoritative
<crimsun> it's normally not an issue unless the orig.tar.gzs differ
<crimsun> since all you'll be adjusting is the diff.gz
<fbond> I see.  In your opinion, is it worth the extra effort it would take to get the package into Debian?
<crimsun> absolutely.
<crimsun> it's not really extra effort per se
<crimsun> it's just a different route
<fbond> I understood that getting anything into debian is quite time-consuming...
<LaserJock> fbond: I've done 2 packages from scratch, one I did via REVU -> Debian and the other I did straight to Debian and had is synced into Ubuntu
<crimsun> fbond: that [mis] conception is exaggerated
<fbond> ok.
<LaserJock> yeah, especially if your package has already gone through the REVU proccess
<fbond> is there a different approach to take on the way into debian if a package has already been revu'd?
<LaserJock> mine took 2 days to get uploaded into Debian unstable after it was already in Dapper
<fbond> what is the correct entry point into Debian?
<LaserJock> you should look to see if an ITP (intent to package) bug has already been filed in Debian
<fbond> already checked that
<fbond> I check for any package I'm working on, got burned in Dapper cause I duplicated efforts with someone in Debian
<LaserJock> k, so then you can file one
<LaserJock> I personally found the debian-mentors mailing place a good spot to plug into Debian
<LaserJock> mailing list
<fbond> ok
<fbond> 1. file ITP 2. join debian-mentors, send email explaining situation ???
<LaserJock> you want to send a RFS (Request for Sponsor) email to debian-mentors
<fbond> debian and their acronyms
<fbond> used to run debian before ubuntu -- not dissing debian
<LaserJock> yeah, but then we have MOTU so ... ;-)
<fbond> true
<fbond> funny, when I was in high school, I did audio engineering for a small-town hip hop group called Master of the Universe
<fbond> this is in rural New England, by the way (if you are American and that means anything to you)
<LaserJock> here is a good resource if you haven't seen it already: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html
<fbond> anyway, thanks for the input, I'll get on the Debian case, I guess
<fbond> ok, dinner time, see y'all around
<LaserJock> it really is worth it to get stuff in Debian
<fbond|away> noted.  talk to you soon, and thanks again.
<LaserJock> np
<Toadstool> re
<havoc> hiya
<crimsun> bddebian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangria
<bddebian> I know what it is, I just didn't think tseng drank
<Toadstool> hi bddebian & crimsun
<crimsun> re Toadstool
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<zul> hey
<crimsun> re zul
<bddebian> Hi zul
<Toadstool> hey zul
<LaserJock> hi everybody
<bddebian> LaserJock!!
<bddebian> LaserJock: How was Gay Paris?
<LaserJock> interesting
<Toadstool> heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> I had a lot of fun, but am very glad to be back
<bddebian> Why's that?
<bddebian> Don't like hairy women?
* bddebian hides
<Toadstool> :)
<LaserJock> I got pickpocketed on the subway
<LaserJock> and got a cold on the last day
<Toadstool> er, Paris...
<bddebian> Crime in France?  Not possible
<LaserJock> but my laptop made it ok so that's good
<Toadstool> grah, meeting this morning at 9am and it's 3am...
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<bddebian> Eeks
<bddebian> Gnight Toadstool
<LaserJock> cya ToadZzZztool
<bddebian> Not that any of you care but I
<bddebian> 'll bbiab :-)
<sean> hello
<antinobody> hmm...it appears I killed my pgp-key
<antinobody> again
<antinobody> these keys and I do not get along well
<zul> LaserJock: did you get a french taunting a la monty python?
<LaserJock> no, it would have been funny
<LaserJock> I thought about it when I was walking around Notre Dame
<zul> so where is the next conference going to be so i can start saving ;)
<LaserJock> not sure, I heard mutterings of Brazil and Florida/LA
<zul> florida would be good
<LaserJock> but it's totally up in the air at this point
<zul> heh...we could leave some users in east la
<LaserJock> I think south america would be fun, but from what I say in Paris, the internet connections might be a problem
<LaserJock> s/say/saw/
<zul> la is a bit expensive
<LaserJock> perhaps, Paris was quite expensive
<zul> especially if you get picked pocketed
<LaserJock> heh, yeah
<antinobody> Brazil isn't cheap either
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> the food is cheap
<LaserJock> and probably better than that steak tartar or whatever it was
* jsgotangco cringes at 4 coke
<LaserJock> yep
<jsgotangco> im supposed to be at work today but i didn't because my back is still aching after a 15 hour flight
<LaserJock> I've got a bad cold
<LaserJock> I've been throwing up all morning
<LaserJock> but at least I'm home ;-)
<zul> sounds more like the flu
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> it sure made the 24 hrs of travel fun :-)
<zul> when i was a kid i puked all over the flight stewardess it wasnt fun
<antinobody> everyone loves travelling sick
<antinobody> one of the few great joys of life
<jsgotangco> yeah its nice to have real food after a week
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: well, I haven't been able to keep much of anything down, but I could sure smell the McDonalds when I got into LAX ;-)
<ajmitch> joy
* ajmitch is going to be travelling tonight/tomorrow
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: you missed a lot of stuff happening around 3-4am saturday hehee
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: ?
<jsgotangco> when people started coming back to the hotel
<LaserJock> I got up about 4am
<LaserJock> but was just in the room
<jsgotangco> but were you at the lobby?
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> what happened?
* jsgotangco keeps mum
<LaserJock> I was sick and didn't want to drink so I went back to the hotel with Claire and elmo
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: you were in the lobby?
<jsgotangco> we went with you remember i was with BenC and Klaus
<LaserJock> right
<jsgotangco> Claire still had a bottle of wine and we finished it up
<jsgotangco> and we stayed in the lobby till 4 i think
<LaserJock> sounds like I didn't miss out on much ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh we had good stories
<LaserJock> any mao?
<LaserJock> I wanted to play again
<jsgotangco> no not at all, just finishing up the wine
<jsgotangco> i just helped elmo and claire clean up the equipment after that
<LaserJock> ah
<TheMuso> Hey jsgotangco.
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: hey had your rest already?
<LaserJock> I could of helped but highvoltage needed to be up early so I didn't want bother him
<TheMuso> Yes I have. It is 12:08PM here. :)
<TheMuso> SO I have been up for a while.
<TheMuso> Will just have another early night tonight, and I should be fine.
<jsgotangco> me too i just have a bad back at the moment so i skipped work
<TheMuso> heh
<shawarma> Hi all!
<jsgotangco> hi!
<LaserJock> i have a feeling I won't be going to work tomorrow
<LaserJock> hi shawarma
<LaserJock> I wonder if my lug knows about mao
<LaserJock> I need to try it again
<shawarma> LaserJock: Heh... I've thought of playing Mao as well. I've been trying to find proper translations for all the common phrases, but it's not really that easy.
<shawarma> When "failure to x" doesn't even translate very well at all, it's kind of hard to get anywhere. :-)
<LaserJock> shawarma: what language do you need it translated in?
<shawarma> LaserJock: Danish.
<LaserJock> you're Danish?
<shawarma> Yes...
<shawarma> What did you think?
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> dang, you're English is so good I thought maybe you were American
<jsgotangco> well he did look english to me though
* shawarma wonders if that actually counts as a compliment
<jsgotangco> hahha
<LaserJock> well..
<Unfrgiven> did you guys just read that freenode has been hacked - passwords maybe compromised. http://tgmandry.blogspot.com/2006/06/worlds-largest-foss-irc-network.html
<shawarma> Anyone in their right mind uses a crap password for IRC anyway.
<imbrandon> Unfrgiven, we lived it last evening that you
<whiprush> hi Unfrgiven, been a long time.
<Unfrgiven> whiprush: hey dude. yeah it has. how r u?
<imbrandon> s/that/thank
<whiprush> good good
<jsgotangco> hey whiprush
<crimsun> (I have no idea who would possibly want my passwords, as they're all beyond my own comprehension, but whatever...)
<Unfrgiven> imbrandon: right so im very late to panic :)
<whiprush> hi jerome
<imbrandon> heh and anyone would not be very smart to use a secure password for a unsecure netwrok,if they had i'm sure they went in a fury of changing password last night
<jsgotangco> too bad i didnt see that much of paris at night
<shawarma> jsgotangco: Yeah. I didn't even see the Eiffel tower.
<imbrandon> heya jsgotangco
<imbrandon> heya crimsun
<LaserJock> shawarma: no?
<jsgotangco> heya
<shawarma> shawarma: No, I kind of kept procrastinating it until there was just no time left.
<jsgotangco> the night we went out last friday was the first time  BenC left at the hotel
<shawarma> jsgotangco: Me too.
<jsgotangco> gee
<LaserJock> I made it to a few places before my wallet was stolen
<shawarma> LaserJock: Really? Bummer.
<LaserJock> but at like 17 eur per trip I couldn't got that often anyway
<jsgotangco> at least i was able to see some artwork in paris
<LaserJock> yeah, I didn't make it there
<LaserJock> Notre Dame was the best for me
<jsgotangco> man my back is really hammered
<LaserJock> from the flight?
<ajmitch> lucky chap
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> schiphol is so big and i had my backpack full so
<imbrandon> incase anyone isnt paying attn to notices ....
<antinobody> watching all those joins scroll down is kind of theraputic
* ajmitch wonders what the big statement will be
<ajmitch> since I can't be bothered joining :)
* antinobody will tell ajmitch when he knows
<antinobody> ajmitch by the way, network-manager made my head hurt, so I went back to learning on k3b
* ajmitch thought someone was already handling k3b
<antinobody> they are
<antinobody> I'm just using it as practice
* antinobody doesn't know what one's no one is working on anyway
<ajmitch> mostly universe stuff
<antinobody> s, pero qu
<imbrandon> antinobody, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates is a good place to check if you like KDE stuff
<antinobody> oh!  that huge list below the smaller list
<antinobody> Ha!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<antinobody> hey bddebian
* jsgotangco uninstalls teamspeak =)
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon, antinobody
<shawarma> antinobody: I'll take on network-manager by the way.
<shawarma> I kind of volunteered to make it do "the right things[tm] " at UDS.
<antinobody> shawarma cool
<antinobody> I think I'll look at abakus
<crimsun> you're a brave person
<antinobody> it seems simple enough
<antinobody> he is
<crimsun> (n-m is a thorn)
<ajmitch> crimsun: brave and/or foolish
<shawarma> crimsun: I know. I've worked on it before.
<shawarma> crimsun: Keybuk had some particularly interesting swear words about it. :-)
<antinobody> ajmitch the big announcement was just the whole compromised staffer account from yesterday
<antinobody> now they're taking questions
<ajmitch> terribly exciting
<antinobody> Oh indeed, you're missing a hellova party
<ajmitch> I'll survive
<antinobody> yeah, the only difference for abakus is the use of dh_iconcache.  No need to change the package
<imbrandon> right considering thats in the kde.mk now
<antinobody> kde.mk?
<imbrandon> antinobody, include debian/cdbs/kde.mk is in the rules
<imbrandon> and kde.mk includes dh_iconcache now
<imbrandon> so when its sync'd and built its not needed as long as thats the only change
<antinobody> I see, so then abakus can be synced
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> as long as that is the only change from the version in debian
<antinobody> Do you know where the schedule for Edgy is?
<imbrandon> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/EdgyReleaseSchedule.ics
<imbrandon> theres a wiki page too but i dont have the link right off
<antinobody> I found the wiki
<antinobody> should I list abakus as done==Y, SYNC?
<antinobody> Or is there someone I'm supposed to mention this to?
<antinobody> On the https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates
<imbrandon> yea list it as Y sync and your name , and no Riddell check that page as needed
<imbrandon> thats the reason its there
<antinobody> graca
<antinobody> s
<imbrandon> if you find one that needs merged, work on merging it and then makrk it as merg and upload to revu then link to your revu upload on the wiki entry
<imbrandon> it will get looked at as time permits Riddell or others
<antinobody> cool, thanks for the help
<imbrandon> np
<antinobody> I feel almost like I'm doing something useful
<imbrandon> heh
<antinobody> I suppose this means I have to make a REVU account...
<antinobody> Do I have to join ubuntu-universe-contributors to upload merged packages to REVU, imbrandon?
<crimsun> "ubuntu-universe-contributors"?
<imbrandon> no , follow the wiki instructions for uploading to revu
<antinobody> all right
<imbrandon> you need to send a pgp key
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> btw
<antinobody> right, right
<imbrandon> whats ubuntu-universe-contibutor?
<antinobody> I've deleted two of those already
<imbrandon> a MOTU ?
<antinobody> MOTUs are automatically members
<antinobody> but it's on the REVU wiki
<imbrandon> erm ok, never noticed that group on LP but in any case its PROBBLY something for revu2 , not to worry about it atm
<antinobody> This team holds all members, which may upload to revu. At the moment, Revu2 is not finished yet. However, to faciliate key management with http://revu.tauware.de, this group was created. When revu2 is finished, we will keep this group. This team was described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec
<antinobody> it appears to be for refu2 indeed
<imbrandon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<imbrandon> ^^ hats what you need to follow for the current revu, not to say that wont change for revu2 but thats not working atm
<imbrandon> s/hats/thats
<antinobody> pssh, I'll worry about that when I finish merging agistudio
<imbrandon> you might shoot off the email with the key and such as its not an automatic process
<imbrandon> might take time
<imbrandon> ;)
<antinobody> right, right
<antinobody> hmm
<antinobody> It is not necessary to GetYourKeySigned, but it is a good idea anyway. In order to upload to REVU, you will need to be added to the REVU keyring. Be sure that you have a [WWW]  Launchpad account and that you have added your GPGKey to it. Then ask to [WWW]  be added to the Ubuntu Universe Contributors team. One of the REVU admins will add you then to the group (== Upload rights for REVU). You don't need a password to upload packages, only 
<antinobody> .
<antinobody> What is this e-mail you speak of?
<antinobody> the wiki does not mention it
<antinobody> ajmitch know anything about using REVU (being an admin and all)?
<LaserJock> antinobody: I'm not sure if the Launchpad stuff is fully working yet or not, but I think it might be
<antinobody> worth a shot I suppose
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> siretart will probably email you if not
<antinobody> all righty
<antinobody> what's the debian/watch file do?
<antinobody> it seems to list the source page, but why exactly?
<antinobody> it isn't in the debian version, so I'm curious if it's just something we do, or what?
<anibal> antinobody, it's used by uscan
<antinobody> gracas anibal
<tritium> antinobody: to check for new versions upstream
<antinobody> y tritium
<anibal> antinobody, it's also to display new version of upstream releases at pages http://like qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=anibal
<antinobody> anyone know what the Standards Version is?
<antinobody> I feel ignorant again
<crimsun> what it is in Ubuntu Dapper [or in Debian Sid] , or what it signifies?
<crimsun> the answer to the latter is in the Policy
<crimsun> which, not coincidentally, is also related to the Standards-Version
<crimsun> [http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Standards-Version] 
<antinobody> ok, so if that increases with the Sid release, that change should go into Egdy
<antinobody> Also, if /packaging/debian/control still lists only the build-depends for debian and they're different in Ubuntu that needs to be fixed, right?  (the Dapper version didn't change that file)
<Laser_away> it's kinda subjective, IMO. It usually just whatever is current whenever you package it
<crimsun> antinobody: generally try to minimise deltas against the Debian source package
<antinobody> Still referring to the Standards version?
<crimsun> the Ubuntu source package as a whole.
<antinobody> crimsun of course
<antinobody> crimsun change as little as possible was my assumption
<crimsun> as little deviation as possible to get it to build in pbuilder/sbuild
<antinobody> what was the changelog command?
<antinobody> dch -i ?
<tritium> yes, antinobody
<antinobody> what is the etiquette on a changelog?
<crimsun> try not to duplicate upstream changelog.
<crimsun> that's about it.
<antinobody> the merging howto reminded to me add in the dapper ubuntu changelog
<antinobody> then basically type "Resycronize for Edgy"
<antinobody> for mine
<crimsun> yep
<crimsun> I tend to be a bit more verbose, but that's just my approach
<antinobody> Well, I didn't have to do much with this one, so verbosity seemed unnecessary
<antinobody> raphink hey!
<raphink> yop
<antinobody> I managed to merge a package
<raphink> great :)
<antinobody> now I have make sure it works
<raphink> :)
<antinobody> someday I'll figure out why I have to ping -c 3 us.archive.ubuntu.com every time I want to get a file using the terminal
<raphink> huh?
<antinobody> apparently my modem/router rewrites some file or another periodically
<antinobody> and it makes it difficult to access files
<antinobody> particularly through apt-get install
<antinobody> and similar methods
<raphink> ah
<raphink> :(
<antinobody> no s porque
<antinobody> I need to eat not
<antinobody> I'll return in a bit
<raphink> ok
<raphink> antinobody: you'll be the first one to test the new system for REVU
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> antinobody: I just added you to the universe-contributors group. You should be able to upload to REVU using your GPG key now
* crimsun wonders whether bound branches (in bzr) are a good idea if his branch work is done primarily on a laptop lacking viable Internet connectivity
<Hobbsee> hi crimsun
<crimsun> hi Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Hey again all.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> How goes it?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it goes good :)  I  met Pia :)
<TheMuso> Cool! At the education expo?
<Hobbsee> nope
<Hobbsee> at uni
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<antinobody> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<antinobody> raphink thank's for that REVU add
<raphink> antinobody: hope it works :)
<antinobody> hmm...something isn't working in pbuilder
<antinobody> I have tmake, but it thinks I don't
<Hobbsee> antinobody: is tmake listed as a build-dep in the package you're trying to build?
<antinobody> s
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> is tmake in the repos for the pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> and if it's new, have you tried pbuilder update?
<antinobody> repos for the... huh?
<antinobody> I'll try that
<antinobody> Oh, no, wait, I just created this pbuilder env like 15 minutes ago
<antinobody> that's silly, sean, it can't be new
<antinobody> hmm, no luck
* crimsun pokes bzr push with a stick
<crimsun> (I think I might be going about this completely incorrectly)
<antinobody> hmm, well, I have no idea what to do at this point
<Hobbsee> antinobody: you have universe enabled in the repo, i take it?  stupid question :P
<crimsun> antinobody_: what's the issue?
<antinobody_> I'm going to go to sleep, I'll try this again in the morning
<antinobody_> ajmitch I'll upload the package, to see if REVU will let me, but it's untested (pbuilder problems), so I'll leave a note to that effect
<ToadZzZztool> 'morning
<antinobody> morning
<antinobody> ajmitch raphink how long after uploading should I expect it to take before a package appears on http://revu.tauware.de/
<freeflying|away> antinobody: no more than five mns
<antinobody> Hmm, it appears we are in the more than five minutes category at the moment
<antinobody> hay un problema, no?
<antinobody> I need to learn how to use those upside-down ?
<antinobody> At least I figured out why the pbuilder couldn't find tmake
<crimsun> you didn't have universe enabled in the pbuilder's apt sources?
<antinobody> nope
<antinobody> twas a problem
<crimsun> yeah, that's what Hobbsee was referring to 64 minutes ago
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> that long, hey?
<antinobody> she may have referred to it right as I got booted, I didn't hear it
* Hobbsee better make sure that she doesnt miss work on that basis!
<antinobody> Oh well, thank's for attempting to help me
<crimsun> 01:39 < Hobbsee> is tmake in the repos for the pbuilder?
<crimsun> 01:39 < Hobbsee> and if it's new, have you tried pbuilder update?
<crimsun> 01:39 < antinobody> repos for the... huh?
<crimsun> 01:39 < antinobody> I'll try that
<antinobody> Oh!  That
<crimsun> you don't appear to have been booted right afterward  :p
<antinobody> I feel stupid again
<antinobody> nope
<antinobody> Just ignorant throughout
<Hobbsee> hi Lure
<antinobody> hello Lure
<Lure> hi all
<antinobody> I think I need to harass ajmitch or raphink over REVU not letting me upload (although, now that the problem's sorted out, I suppose I should test the package first...)
<crimsun> well, don't feel bad
<antinobody> I rarely do, I rather like learning new things, even if I have to feel stupid for a moment to do so
<crimsun> I keep attempting to bzr push, and the branch just doesn't appear via LP's Web interface
<antinobody> though I need to get to sleep soon
<antinobody> class in the morning
<crimsun> so all I have to show for 4 hours of work is another 900 MB of HD space used
<antinobody> Yay!  that's more than I usually have to show
<Hobbsee> antinobody: ajmitch is afk and very busy
<antinobody> he is, I noticed
<antinobody> raphink is likely busy as well
<antinobody> I may just test the package, try to dput it again, and if it fails again, mention it tomorrow
<Hobbsee> ajmitch wont be here tomorrow :P
<antinobody> Hobbsee I was going to mention to ajmitch, because I'm his test subject for the REVU keyring via launchpad method
<antinobody> Oh well, eventually it will get worked out
<Hobbsee> antinobody: ah okay.  FYI, he's in transit in a few hours
<Hobbsee> like, in two hours time
<antinobody> it's allright, let him get his travel things taken care of, I'll see if I can't get raphink, or another REVU admin's help, if this doesn't work
<raphink> wait a min
<antinobody> mmhmm
<antinobody> wait, for what?  I'm confused again
<crimsun> (he's checking)
<antinobody> I see...
<raphink> I'm at work
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> not available
<antinobody> naturally, don't get in trouble over something silly
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee is surprised at all these working people on irc.
* antinobody vaguely remembers what it was like to get paid for doing things
* Hobbsee gets paid to be an idiot.
* antinobody wants Hobbsee's job
* Hobbsee works in a shop, unrelated much to computers.
<antinobody> I'm way more qualified
<Hobbsee> no you dont :P
<antinobody> At the moment, I'm enjoying my studenthood, so you may be right
<antinobody> what does you do?
* Hobbsee works at a supermarket, on the registers.
* antinobody used to work in retail, but his roommates both worked at a supermarket
* antinobody worked the registers mostly as well, but did some sales
<antinobody> I haven't had a job in 7 or so months, I don't do well mixing school and work
<antinobody> my brain gets all pissy and bored with the job being boring vs. the school being complicated and difficult
<Hobbsee> ouch
* Hobbsee mixes school, work, linux and other bits.  it's kinda fun.
* antinobody is impressed by Hobbsee's juggling skills
<Hobbsee> s/school/uni
<antinobody> Ha!  just as well the package didn't upload
<Hobbsee> sheesh!
<antinobody> it's broken
<antinobody> hee-hee, oops
<Hobbsee> ah yeah, usually not a good idea to upload broken stuff
<antinobody> I was gonna leave a note about it not being tested...
<antinobody> looks like that one thing I thought didn't need changing did, oh well
* Hobbsee shakes her head.
<antinobody> ha, that probably applies to pretty much any mistake made while merging
* Hobbsee thought you were *always* supposed to test before upload
* antinobody imagines you are, but wanted to test if his REVU uploads worked before going to sleep
<antinobody> I was testing their new system
<antinobody> let's see if that fixes the problem
<antinobody> wait a minute...that was the dapper package, not mine
<antinobody> ...that's just weird
<antinobody> Hobbsee ha!  I was wrong, my code isn't broken!  But...apparently the old code was...see now I'm confused again
<Hobbsee> hehe, rgith...
<antinobody> It's TRUE
<antinobody> I swear!
<antinobody> I'm just not sure how
<antinobody> try to pbuild the dapper source for the agistudio package
<antinobody> it errors when it tries to compile midi.cpp
<Lathiat> yikes
<Lathiat> liek 3 weeks of mergres
<Lathiat> i think i might get stuck into em this time round
<antinobody> well, I tried to dput it again, and now I'm going to go to sleep, and if it isn't on REVU when I wake up, I'll figure out what to do then
<crimsun> ok, so apparently sftp is barfing, which explains why the branch is never getting created.
<tseng> hi crimsun
<crimsun> now why the hades is it barfing?
<crimsun> hi tseng
<raphink> wb Lure
<Lure> raphink: moving between meeting rooms ;-)
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> monitoring the network :s
<Hobbsee> hi raphink
<raphink> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ping?
<nexu> how do i add more repository to OTHERMIRROR with pbuilder?
<raphink-work> nexu: see the wiki : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<nexu> been there
<nexu> done that
<nexu> but trying to add a 2nd repo doesnt seem to work overhere
<raphink-work> nexu: you add it to the sources.list of your pbuilder
<raphink-work> you don't add it to the conf
<raphink-work> in the apt.conf dir
<antinobody> raphink-work ha!  the lauchpad.net REVU thing didn't work
<nexu> you mean the sources.list INSIDE the pbuild ?
<antinobody> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
<antinobody> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'universe' of file 'agistudio_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.dsc'
<raphink-work> antinobody: can you see that with siretart ?
<antinobody> huh?
<raphink-work> antinobody: he programmed that, but you're the first to try it ;)
<raphink-work> siretart:
<raphink-work> antinobody: ...
<raphink-work> are you sure you uploaded to revu antinobody?
<raphink-work> I think you uploaded to ubuntu ;)
<raphink-work> or tried to at least ;)
<antinobody> hmm...quizs
<raphink-work> you have to use `dput revu *changes
<raphink-work> not dput directly
<raphink-work> unless you've set revu to your default hots in dput.conf
<raphink-work> s/to/as/
<antinobody> where is dput.conf?
<antinobody> oh /etc/
<raphink-work> as most conf ;)
<antinobody> ha!  well, that helps
<antinobody> I'm going to wait for the upload, then go back to sleep
<siretart> err, huh?
<siretart> raphink-work: did you update the revu-keyring, as instructed in my email?
<raphink-work> hmm let's see
<raphink-work> ah right
<raphink-work> I'll do that :)
<raphink-work> hehe
<raphink-work> *blush*
<siretart> raphink-work: the keyring is not updated automatically, you still need to run 'revu-key update' by hand
<raphink-work> let's see
<raphink-work> siretart: I can't add revu-admins as admin to universe-contribs
<raphink-work> it won't let me
<raphink-work> for some reason
<antinobody> the file name is dput.cf, by the by
<siretart> raphink-work: perhaps you need to be owner or something. I've done that now
<raphink-work> ok
<raphink-work> thanks
<antinobody> so...should I try this one more time?
<raphink-work> yes you can try again antinobody
<raphink-work> be sure to upload to revu, not to ubuntu ;)
<raphink-work> won't let you upload to ubuntu anyway so there' s no risk ;)
<raphink-work> what is the package you're trying to upload antinobody?
<Riddell> is there a general motu equivalent of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates ?
<antinobody> agistudio
<antinobody> Riddell this was in one of the mail-list e-mails http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/todolist.txt
<antinobody> But that's all I've see so far
<antinobody> raphink I can't upload it at the moment, because I tried to upload it before you updated the key
<raphink-work> ah right
<raphink-work> let me purge the package
<raphink-work> is it agistudio antinobody?
<antinobody> gracas raphink-work
<antinobody> yeah
<raphink-work> ok
<raphink-work> go on now
<antinobody> success!
<antinobody> well, uploading anyway
<antinobody> now I wait
<raphink-work> in 20 seconds it'll be one
<raphink-work> on
<antinobody> We do need to set up a wiki like Riddell was talking about at some point...
<lucas> antinobody: for what ? whole of ubuntu ?
<antinobody> aye
<lucas> why not just use LP bugs for this ?
<lucas> using a wiki means duplicating information
<antinobody> is that what's been used in the past?
<Riddell> lucas: LP bugs are hard to see all in one place if there's on 1000 different packages
<antinobody> lucas
<antinobody> es verdad
<lucas> yeah, but it's easy to write a script to follow the bugs
<raphink-work> your package is online now antinobody
<antinobody> it is indeed
<antinobody> I'm very happy
<Riddell> but so long as kubuntu isn't duplicating anything it's all good
<antinobody> thank you for the help raphink
<raphink-work> you're welcome
<antinobody> two down, many to go
<antinobody> sleep must I now, again
<nexu> when signing
<nexu> does it use the information based on the Maintainer field in control ?
<slomo> nexu: no, it looks at the latest changelog entry
<sivang> morning all
<sivang> hey slomo :)
<slomo> hi sivang :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi sivang
<zul> hey
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<sivang> howdy folks
* sivang hugs slomo 
<sivang> slomo: do you know if there's MOM bug list already for universe?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hows it going
<sivang> hey Kamping_Kaiser
<sivang> Kamping_Kaiser: fine, good
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<slomo> sivang: afaik MoM will start to run this evening... but better ask scott about it
<sivang> slomo: ah, right, then that's also waht I know.
<slomo> bbl
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ping
<Hobbsee> hi ll
<Hobbsee> *all
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi zul :)
* Hobbsee is absolutely trashed.
<lucas> ogra: it's not really easy to exclude packages with a debian suffix in the version, since many packages have 'debian' in their versions for other reasons
<ogra> well, ok then ...
<lucas> all packages with debian in name or version only account for 67 packages anyway
<ogra> i didnt know there are other packages using it as version a suffix
<lucas> xarchive 0.2.8.6+debian-1 0.2.8.6+debian-1
<lucas> xfonts-ayu 1.7+0a+0debian1-2 1.7+0a-1ubuntu1
<lucas> xmms-kjofol 0.95.0debian3-3 0.95.0debian3-3
<lucas> xresprobe 0.4.23debian1 0.4.23debian1
<lucas> zssh 1.5c.debian.1-1 1.5c.debian.1-1
<lucas> for example
<ogra> only xresprobe seems to match the pattern here
<zul> jsgotangco: has your pictures been uploaded yet?
<lucas> also, I'm doing this part in bash, so I'd prefer to avoid doing complex matching here :-)
<tseng> hi jsgotangco
<lucas> anyway, the script is on tiber:~lucas/mergescountdown/, so if you want to fix it ... :)
<ogra> after i found out how to fix the breakage debian has done to ltsp :)
<tseng> f%$#%^#$ Launchpad Team Membership Notifier
<tseng> can i turn it off?
<Lathiat> the problem was, i beleive
<Lathiat> everyone was an administrator
<Lathiat> so they changed it
<Lathiat> so ti wont happen now
<Lathiat> ?
<jsgotangco> zul: uploading now
<jsgotangco> tseng: hi! (sorry i was downstairs cooking late dinner for my wife)
<tseng> no problem
<tseng> i am watching lewing give a talk of f-spot
<tseng> (!)
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<StevenK> Hobbsee?
<CarlFK> is this a resonable place to get help with apt-get build-dep wine ?
<CarlFK> (and whatever other fun may ensue)
<zul> not really its more #ubuntu
<tuxmaniac> re
<bddebian> Heya gang
<havoc> hiya
<Kamping_Kaiser> :L)
<bddebian> Hello havoc
<antinobody> Morning people
<antinobody> hello bddebian
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<bddebian> Heya antinobody
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian havoc Kamping_Kaiser and antinobody
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi Hobbsee  :)
<zul> arrrgh!!
<Hobbsee> argh?
<Kamping_Kaiser> :O
<zul> Hobbsee: people who want to do gentoo on ubuntu
<antinobody> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> zul: ah yes, got to love them
<zul> actually i want to smack them
<antinobody> zul but that's LIKE love
<zul> its tough love
<antinobody> heehee, I was missing some letters in my debuild on that merge...
<Hobbsee> haha
<antinobody> zul well put
<Hobbsee> zul: if they're doing that, they'll probably be developers eventually :P
<Hobbsee> well, we can hope, anywya
<zul> Hobbsee: maybe..
<Hobbsee> wishful thinking :P
<zul> but if you want to become a developer you dont start out by wanting to recompile verything...sounds more like an ex-gentoo user
<antinobody> raphink s ests todava all, the upload is fixed (I think...)
<antinobody> zul technically those two things aren't mutually exclusive, even if they aren't necessrily conected either
<Hobbsee> zul: that is true
<tseng> bddebian: i was not drinking, it was a certain someone else
<bddebian> Ahh :-)
<bddebian> Hi tseng :-)
<Riddell> siretart: any plans to fix the cdbs build failure?
<raphink> antinobody: which I'm not todavia por aqu
<antinobody> lo siento raphink
<antinobody> you will be missed
<raphink> by whom?
<antinobody> dunno, but I'm sure someone will miss you
<raphink> ah
<raphink> I know someone is missing me already ;)
<raphink> but that's it
<antinobody> it's 8 in the morning here, and I only got like 5 hours of sleep, so I might not be on top of things just yet
<antinobody> so if I say random nonsensical things more than usual, that's my excuse
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> that's my excuse antinobody
<antinobody> Hobbsee I'm not sure I believe the implied fact of it being 8 in the morning in Australia too
<antinobody> Unless they changed something about the timezones when I wasn't looking
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> no, about the lack of sleep
<antinobody> Ahhh, I see
<antinobody> yeah, this is nothing, during the last two weeks of class, I went like 7 days straight with less than 3 or 4 hours a night
<antinobody> it was unpleasant
<antinobody> I still have nightmares
<allee> antinobody: pkging agistudio, right?
<allee> I wonder why pixmap still goes below /usr/X11R6/... and not /usr/share/pixmaps ?
<bddebian> allee: Because it's broken
<bddebian> Does it use xmkmf?
<antinobody> bddebian: asking me or allee?
<bddebian> Whoever is having the issue :-)
<allee> bddebian: no idea just looked at the diff in revu.  afaics the xpm installed by dh_install ;)
* allee looks away :)
<bddebian> Well dh_install will just install to whatever dirs make & make install install to by default
<antinobody> allee how does it affect the xpm?
<allee> bddebian: right and dh_install gets told to install below /usr/X11.
<bddebian> No, dh_install doesn't get "told" to do anything :-)
<allee> antinobody: /usr/X11R6 is obsolete with Xorg 7.
<antinobody> I'm still new to this whole process, mistakes are possible (although that I'm pretty is just a change I carried over from the dapper version)
<bddebian> antinobody: There were a lot of broken packages in dapper with that issue
<bddebian> antinobody: Does it build with xmkmf?
<antinobody> mhmm, xmkmf isn't in the build-deps, I know that much?  How would I tell?
<bddebian> How does it "make" in debian/rules?
<allee> bddebian: it's qt app so I assume it uses tmake.
<antinobody> I think allee is right
<bddebian> What package is this?
<allee> antinobody: just replace usr/X11R6/include/X11/pixmaps with usr/share/pixmaps
<allee> bddebian: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2508
<antinobody> I'll do that, thanks allee
<allee> antinobody: np
<allee> antinobody: if you feel like it, send a e-mail to debian maintainer.  AFAIR sid uses xorg 7 too.  So it's better fixed once in debian pkg
<antinobody> allee that shouldn't be a problem, since they put it in /usr/share/agistudio
<allee> antinobody:
<allee> -debian/agistudio.xpm	usr/share/agistudio
<allee> +debian/agistudio.xpm	usr/X11R6/include/X11/pixmap
<allee> antinobody: remove all the usr/X11R6 stuff. The only the .desktop, dh_desktop and watch file remains.  All worth merged into debian pkgs.  Then pkgs can be automaticly synced fromd debian in the future.
<allee> s/The/Then/
<allee> antinobody: the agistudui.1 patch should be deleted also.  1.2.2 is a new release.  So I assume year 2006 is correct not 2003
<antinobody> give him a 2006 copyright?
<allee> antinobody: who is 'him'?
<antinobody> Oh, you mean get the right date for the top of the file (I thought you wanted an update to the copyright at the bottom, which would be odd>
<Riddell> siretart: ok, I've fixed cdbs (hopefully)
<Riddell> siretart: but how the heck did you merge that?  can't we keep the changes from debian as patches?  there's already a new debian version to merge
<antinobody> allee all right, those changes should be up soon.  I'm still fuzzy on exactly what you wanted me to tell the debian maintainer though
<allee> antinobody: wait I check debian diff and yours (before give brain dead hints;)
<antinobody> hmm...the debian version pbuilds fine, is there any reason we shouldn't just sync the file?  The only change is the /usr/share/pixmaps vs. /usr/share/agistudio
<antinobody> ?
<slomo> antinobody: depends on whether the change is still necessary... not all changes we do make it build but could fix something else
<allee> antinobody: checked it: kubuntu added a agistudio.desktop,  debian/watch file and dh_desktop.  IMHO all worth to be merged into the debian pkgs.
<allee> antinobody: I would suggest when you are done with it, open a debian bug report with the output of
<allee> interdiff -z agistudio_1.2.2-1.diff.gz agistudio_1.2.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<allee> and ask Jarno Elonen to merge the changes.
<antinobody> ok, I'll take care of that, hopefully tonight (I need to get ready for class now)
<antinobody> thanks for the help allee
<allee> antinobody: no need to hurry.  Thx for taking care of agistudio!
<allee> err, I mean: no need to hurry with the upload.  Of course the class has priority ;)
<antinobody> heh, of course
<siretart> Riddell: I've imported them in different bzr branches
<siretart> Riddell: so it should be quite easy to see what patched come from
<Riddell> siretart: does it say that anywhere?
<antinobody> the dh_iconcache thing has been integrated into kde, right?
<bddebian> antinobody: Yes, it was put in kde.mk or whatever it's called
<antinobody> was it integrated into GNOME as well?
<antinobody> or does it not apply to GNOME, and I'm silly.
<LaserJock> it isn't specific to DEs
<antinobody> hmm?
<LaserJock> dh_iconcache is generic, it doesn't depend on the desktop environment (KDE, Gnome, XFCE)
<antinobody> right
<antinobody> that makes sense
<siretart> Riddell: yes, on https://launchpad.net/products/cdbs/+branches
<Riddell> siretart: groovy
<antinobody> my main question is, if dh_iconcache is the only difference between a dapper package and a sid package, can they be synced?
<Riddell> siretart: so I just made a couple of changes to cdbs, how do I get those into your bzr?
<antinobody> or need the changes be retained
<siretart> Riddell: what was your base from where you started working on? the latest debian or latest ubuntu package?
<Riddell> siretart: latest ubuntu
<siretart> Riddell: ok. checkout the ubuntu branch
<siretart> bzr checkout sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/cdbs/ubuntu
<siretart> then cd into that dir, and do a 'rm -rf *'
<siretart> then copy your working copy over it
<LaserJock> antinobody: not necessarily
<siretart> then use 'bzr diffstat' or 'bzr st' and bzr 'diff' to see what has changed in your working copy
<siretart> if you are happy with what you did, use 'bzr commit' to commit your changes
<Riddell> siretart: ok, thanks
<siretart> Riddell: when you do the next merge, I'd propose the following procedure:
<antinobody> LazerJock, hmm, I'll have to look further into that later then.  I was told earlier that syncing would be fine in those cases, because of the kde.mk integration, but I realized later the KDE isn't the only desktop environment
<siretart> Riddell: checkout the debian branch, do the rm -rf dance, copy the latest debian version to it, and commit your branch
<antinobody> or even our primary one...
<LaserJock> antinobody: right, for KDE packages using CDBS it is now fine to sync
<siretart> Riddell: then go to your ubuntu branch, and do a 'bzr merge ../ubuntu'
<siretart> Riddell: now resolve the conflicts, and bzr commit it
<LaserJock> antinobody: but I'm not sure if Gnome has dh_iconcache in the gnome.mk and there are lots of packages that don't use CDBS
<siretart> I find this much easier, because bzr helps you to track what files actually changed
<siretart> Riddell: ah, and if you introduced new files, don't forget 'bzr add'!
<antinobody> LaserJock:  I see, so for okle it should be fine to sync then, for example
<siretart> Riddell: ideally, we don't need dpatches anymore with bzr. just put every patch in a new bzr branch, and merge all 'feature branches' into the 'mainline' branch. that makes upgrading to new upstream and merging new debian changes way easier, because the conflicts gets way more isolated
<LaserJock> antinobody: does it use kde.mk in debian/rules? I don't have the source in front of me
<LaserJock> siretart: how is that going to work when pushing changes upstream?
<siretart> LaserJock: well, bzr diff makes it quite easy to extract patches
<allee> LaserJock, antinobody: no rules  is 'old style' makefile that runs dh_* scripts
<Riddell> siretart: I do hate dpatch :)
<siretart> Riddell: so do I
<antinobody> allee, gracas
<antinobody> I suppose that one stays unchanged then
<LaserJock> siretart: yeah, but if upstream is using dpatch etc. and then we start using bzr for everything
<LaserJock> it seems like we are deviating quite a bit
<siretart> LaserJock: ah, so you don't mean the upstream authors, but debian, right?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> sorry
<siretart> LaserJock: well, I think it depends on taste. you don't need to manage/introduce feature branches, but you can
<siretart> LaserJock: if you do, you have to convert them manually
<siretart> LaserJock: perhaps one can write a bzr plugin to faciliate the dpatch<->feature branch conversion
<LaserJock> yeah, that might be handy
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey bddebian
<LaserJock> siretart: ping?
<bddebian> Ack, my karma is dropping... :-)
<highvoltage> bddebian: that's so ongodly of you
<bddebian> Grrr
<nexu> how can i query a repository content thru apt?
<LaserJock> what do you want to find?
<LaserJock> apt-cache and dpkg are the usual tools
<nexu> LaserJock: i want to see or it has i386 or amd64 packages
<LaserJock> for a particular package?
<nexu> yeah
<LaserJock> apt-cache show <package> and look for the Architecture field
<nexu> hmm ok
<nexu> i did that, i though there might be another way
<nexu> to query for specific architecture packages
<bddebian> nexu: You can try grep-dctrl
<nexu> ?
<nexu> grep-dctrl ?
<bddebian>  grep-dctrl lets you do some 'magic' on Packages files
<nexu> gotta love ctrl-w in xchat
<nexu> -_-
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> just in case anyone else is on a flaky connection for that first bzr push, you might want to do it from a stable one.
<crimsun> otherwise you'll end up sftping in, walking the tree by hand, rm * && cd .. && rmdir blah ad infinitum
<LaserJock> hmm
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<crimsun> hi
<grifg> hello
<LaserJock> hi grifg
<bddebian> Hmm, looks like there is no /etc/aliases.db in sendmail anymore.  This is now /etc/aliases?
<jrib> hi, I've created my first package and would like to upload it to revu.  My launchpad account is https://launchpad.net/people/ribeiro.  Is there anything else I need to do before I can upload?
<LaserJock> do you have a gpg key jrib
<jrib> LaserJock: yep, uploaded it to launchpad account as well
<LaserJock> jrib: I think you need to join the LP team at  https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors
<Erlang> what's that team?
<LaserJock> the team of Ubuntu Universe contributors ;-)
<jrib> LaserJock: thanks, it says it's pending approval for membership now
<LaserJock> k, so an admin will have to approve you before you can upload
<jrib> alright, I'll check back later then
<Erlang> that's the new way to subscribe to REVU?
<LaserJock> yeah, LP integration has been a long time goal
<highvoltage> LaserJock: anyone can upload to REVU, right?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: your gpg key has to be added to the revu keyring
<LaserJock> highvoltage: so we don't have bots uploading packages, etc.
<highvoltage> how do i do that?
<highvoltage> (add the gpg key to the keyring?)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, I think now you can join the ubuntu-universe-contributors LP team and it should work
<highvoltage> cool, i'll do that tomorrow. i think i'll have my first package that i can upload tonight. i'll try to upload it tomorrow morning, so that the motu's can rip it apart :)
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<LaserJock> highvoltage: what kind of package?
<Erlang> cool cool
<highvoltage> LaserJock: xulrunner
<bddebian> ack
<bddebian> highvoltage: Fix that for Hurd will ya? ;-)
<highvoltage> bddebian: hehe! of course!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: what? Really?
<bddebian> Actually I sort of have a patch for it :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep, why?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I didn't think xulrunner worked yet
<highvoltage> i don't really know if it works either :)
<highvoltage> i just downloaded 1.8.0.1 and started packaging it :)
<highvoltage> (downloaded at the summit)
<highvoltage> it seems to be more or less firefox... without the actual firefox xul in it :)
<highvoltage> it's only about 1MB smaller than firefox or thunderbird, so perhaps when this will one day be implemented, ff and tb will each only require a one MB package.
<LaserJock> bah, it's really that big?
<highvoltage> 8.9M    xulrunner-1.8.0.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<slomo_> highvoltage: xulrunner already is in debian and edgy
<slomo_> pool/universe/x/xulrunner/xulrunner_1.8.0.4-1.dsc
<highvoltage> it is? heh, ok. ogra said that we can't have epiphany yet because xulrunner isn't packaged. i guess i'll have to find something else to experiment with...
<highvoltage> although, i did learn quite a bit with this already.
<ogra> highvoltage, its packaged in debian
<highvoltage> slomo_: thanks.
<ogra> but to get it to main you will need someone of the main devs commiting to care for it
<highvoltage> ah yes, right.
<ogra> and iwj (the ff maintainer who knows the code best already refused to)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: obviously you need to become a core-dev ;-)
<highvoltage> i wonder why iwj would refuse too. it seems that it will become essential in the future.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: at the pace i've been learning about packaging, that's ages away from now!
<slomo_> highvoltage: because it isn't that clear yet whether it will be used as a base for firefox/thunderbird/etc at all
<highvoltage> although, i've learned to sleep less in paris. if i can manage to go to bed this late every night i might just learn faster :)
<slomo_> highvoltage: at least from what ian said... and until they didn't decide he won't get his hands on xulrunner
<highvoltage> slomo_: aah. i thought it was going to happen. my bad.
<highvoltage> then it makes sense. he's time is too valuable to waste on something that might not happen.
<LaserJock> I sure hope something happens, lots of packages depend on firefox when they really don't need to
<slomo_> i think everybody hopes that it will happen ;) it doesn't make much sense to have a copy of that large bunch of code in firefox/thunderbird/etc
<highvoltage> yep. it really seems like a *lot* of shared codes between the apps. and 8-9MB extra space on the Ubuntu cd's would surely be welcome.
<spacey> well also really nice not to have firefox installed
<spacey> if you use epiphany for example
<highvoltage> yep.
<spacey> firefox is a monster =)
<highvoltage> does ubuntu universe accept packages if the package contains an executable, but not a manpage?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you should have a manpage
<highvoltage> ok.
<highvoltage> that's the only problem my package still has. i think i'll compare it to the real package tomorrow to see if i've done bad or ok.
<crimsun> highvoltage: absolutely not. Pony bribery is rumoured to work, though.
<highvoltage> crimsun: now that you mentioned it... i added creating a pink pony gtk theme, gdm login and wallpaper as a 37th level priority on my todo list ;)
<crimsun> highvoltage: best picture ever: http://www.personalponies.org/images/PonyMagic.jpg
<_ion> Brushing Llandalf is fun.
<_ion> http://johan.kiviniemi.name/pictures/misc/llandalf
<highvoltage> crimsun: hehe
<siretart> Riddell: would you mind committing your cdbs branch to the supermirror?
<LaserJock> siretart: is the tiber mailman down?
<highvoltage> there's a tool that helps me edit changelog.Debian and gzips -9 it again, right?
<slomo_> highvoltage: why would you gzip it`
<highvoltage> lintian tells me to.
<highvoltage> if i don't, it gives a warning that its not gzipped.
<LaserJock> wha?
* highvoltage unzips it to get exact error message
<slomo_> some debhelper script should do it for you ;)
<siretart> LaserJock: mailman should still work, but the webinterface is borked. I need to move it
<slomo_> highvoltage: dh_compress
<LaserJock> siretart: ok, I was trying to admin some stuff for ubuntu-science but the wiki comes up
<siretart> right. thats the problem
<Riddell> siretart: no time just now, might only get round to it tomorrow
<siretart> Riddell: ah, I assumed you had an uncommited branch lying around on your harddisk
<siretart> LaserJock: I'm on it
<LaserJock> siretart: np, just wanted to make sure you were aware of it
<bddebian> Ack, later folks
<siretart> LaserJock: http://lists.tauware.de/listinfo/ubuntu-science
<siretart> LaserJock: list address didn't change, I just tuned my apache
<LaserJock> siretart: hmm, still gives me the wiki
<rpedro> hi
<rpedro> where can I file a bug for a package from universe repository?
<rpedro> especifically audacity
<LaserJock> same place as Main bugs
<rpedro> nvm
<rpedro> sry, thx
<LaserJock> launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug I think is the URL
<LaserJock> rpedro: np, just trying to say that all the bugs are in one place
<rpedro> but I don't know that they accept bugs for packages from universe at launchpad
<LaserJock> sure, Universe is an offical Ubuntu repository
<LaserJock> in fact, Universe used launchpad before Main did
<rpedro> ok, will try the link from channel topic
<siretart> LaserJock: please retry, should work now
<siretart> LaserJock: if not, try flushing your browser cache
<LaserJock> siretart: works now
<siretart> cool
<siretart> LaserJock: please try to moderate some mails and tell if I missed something
<LaserJock> siretart: seems to work fine
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-27
<siretart> LaserJock: cool. thanks for testing
<jrib> if anyone wants to find some newbie mistakes, my first package of a gaim-plugin that has two sources files is here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2511 .  lintian is saying "bad-distribution-in-changes-file edgy", can I just ignore that?
<slomo_> yes, just ignore that
<fbond> siretart: revu password recovery is failing, varying from not getting the encrypted string, to getting a traceback (IOError: Broken pipe)
<zul> argh...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<zul> hey
<bddebian> Hi zul
<zul> hey bddebian how is it going?
<bddebian> Same ol' man, you?
<zul> watching bad 80s videos and xen
<bddebian> Heh
<fbond> siretart: ping?
<nexu> hmmm
<nexu> when does it show new upload to REVU ?
<nexu> nm
<nexu> lol
<nexu> hmm
<nexu> i still miss one package
<nexu> which doesnt show ther
<chillywilly> anyone here know of a amd64 kernel that has xt_connmark and xt_CONNMARK modules built in? the generic kernel maybe?
<chillywilly> ther "server" one doesn't seem to
<chillywilly> suppose I could just look at the packages ;P
<bddebian> Yeah, ya bum :-)
<chillywilly> :-o
<chillywilly> this page is taking a while to load
<chillywilly> lalala
<chillywilly> ok, that was pretty useless
<chillywilly> tried to look at the files in the package with the web interface and it timed out and said it couldn't find the package
<fbond> anyone here a revu admin?
<LaserJock> i'm guessing not until ajmitch wakes up
<fbond> ah
<fbond> thanks
<fbond> I believe revu is having some pretty serious technical difficulties
<LaserJock> what's going on?
<fbond> revu can't recover passwords and isn't moving uploads from incoming, updating page, etc...
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure if siretart has narrowed down the problems
<fbond> oh, are the problems known?
<LaserJock> well, stuff seems to not work once in a while
<LaserJock> and and admin needs to clean out the queue
<nexu> actually
<nexu> i just uploaded
<nexu> and recovered a password
<nexu> like 1h ago
<LaserJock> yeah, it seems to do it sporadically
<jdong> is there any place where I can request packages for universe packaging?
<fbond> hm
<jdong> Automatix users want ManDVD, and there are currently no debian packages of it
<jdong> it's a simple one-binary C++/KDE program
<nexu> setup your own repo till than ?
<LaserJock> currently we are using a wiki page for packaging requests
<jdong> LaserJock: which page is this?
<jdong> nexu: I will for now; but it'd be cool to have this in Edgy without relying on unofficial repos
<crimsun> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New
<jdong> crimsun: thanks very much
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates was what I was thinking about
<crimsun> Candidates is linked from New ; I used New intentionally for the links to WNPP
<crimsun> (and mentors.d.n)
<LaserJock> heh
<jdong> yep; figured that part out
<jdong> the package I wanted was on none of the listed lists
<jdong> so I'm having an automatix developer put it on the candidate list
<nexu> who maintain this page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<crimsun> "the community"
<bddebian> nexu: Thanks for volunteering :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<zul> spoon!
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> jdong: I had a question for you. I just got an email for what looks like a scilab 4 backports request
<LaserJock> bug #50840
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50840 in dapper-backports "scilab 4" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50840
<crimsun> that one's already triaged.
<crimsun> no movement until it builds in Edgy -> pool, etc., etc.
<LaserJock> umm, but there isn't any scilab 4 packages
<LaserJock> so what is there to backport?
<crimsun> meaning it doesn't exist upstream even?
<crimsun> upstream upstream
<bddebian> Uhm rejectage :-)
<LaserJock> yeah upstream upstream exists
<bddebian> Oh
<crimsun> then it's a viable backport req
<nexu> bddebian :] 
<crimsun> it just needs to get into Edgy first, etc.
<LaserJock> yeah, like that's going to happen
<bddebian> Why not?
<LaserJock> it's orphaned in Debian and it doesn't exactly have the greatest license
<crimsun> why, is it blocked on Duke Nukem Forever's release or something?
<jsgotangco> haha
<crimsun> LaserJock: eh, it's a backport req. The world ain't gonna end [yet] . :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, I just thought that you had to have a package to backport before you made a request ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: What crack do you smoke man.  And do you have any to share? ;-P
<crimsun> LaserJock: generally, yes, but I've become a bit more lenient isntead of rejecting straightoff. ;)
<crimsun> on the other hand, my typing has taken a nosedive
<LaserJock> well, I wasn't going to reject it, I just wondered if somebody sneaked in a package I didn't know about :-)
<crimsun> apt-get install zomgponies, word
<zul> yay xen is finally compiling
<bddebian> crimsun: :-)
<crimsun> zul: rockin'
<zul> crimsun: er with 2.6.16
<crimsun> zul: still, nifty
<crimsun> (yeah, getting it compiling with our 2.6.15 would be a major feat)
<zul> next make the deb and see if it works ;)
<zul> crimsun: 2.6.17
<bddebian> crimsun: Know anything about this one? :-)  Bug #5683
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 5683 in insight "insight: merge new debian version" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5683
<crimsun> must have been some other crimsun, hmm
<crimsun> ah well.
<crimsun> hey, the bug status is still valid. Neat.
<crimsun> there, notified.
<crimsun> thanks bddebian
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> It still needs merged?
<crimsun> oh yeah
<crimsun> (6.1+cvs.2004.08.11-1ubuntu1)
<bddebian> Ah
<crimsun> neat, time for some bzr branching
<antinobody> all that and I STILL have the wrong package uploaded to REVU.
<antinobody> hello everybody
* jdong notes that rhythmbox 0.9.5 has landed in edgy :)
<jdong> and it even is satisfied by the dapper build environment :)
<crimsun> awesome, more crack
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> edgy is supposed to be crackful, right?
<crimsun> to some degree
<bddebian> Heya antinobody
<antinobody> hey bddebian
<antinobody> I think I finally got the right agistudio merge uploaded to REVU, and it only took like 4 tries
<bddebian> Nice
<antinobody> I've decided upon an ignorance-based learning system for this merging thing
<antinobody> I'll try to merge something, and when I inevitably find I don't know what they hell I'm doing
<antinobody> I beg people to explain things
<antinobody> Eventually, the theory is I'll know what I'm doing
<crimsun> noble but flawed
<crimsun> it relies on someone else knowing what {s,}he's doing
<LaserJock> heh
<crimsun> I don't at all mind punting all questions to bddebian or LaserJock, though =)
<antinobody> lol
<bddebian> antinobody: Well I have been thinking that for years now and I still don't know shit :-)
<antinobody> any of you know why our package uses /bin/ksh, and the debian one uses /bin/sh (package is arson), for example?
<antinobody> bddebian, true, but the shit you don't know piles much lower than the shit I don't
<bddebian> Hmm
<LaserJock> crimsun: me and bddebian? we don't know anything, we are just stupid enought to talk around here ;-)
<antinobody> it's the SHELL = in the make file
<bddebian> LaserJock: Amen brother :-)
<LaserJock> except I think bddebian's karama perhaps says something else ;-)
<crimsun> antinobody: I only see that in doc/arson/Makefile
<antinobody> it seems you spend the occasional moment working on bugs
<antinobody> crimsun: you're right, I misread
<bddebian> moi?  Nah :-)
<crimsun> antinobody: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:8w_Z0ecqF3MJ:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BddebianIsAGod+bddebianisagod&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera
<crimsun> pwned.
<bddebian> Oh come on man...
<antinobody> ha, crimsun is listed as one of the folks you pale in comparison to
<crimsun> I find it humorous that LaserJock is listed as having most recently modified that wiki page   *whistles*
<antinobody> heh, I wonder what the most recent change was...
<LaserJock> crimsun: humorous
<LaserJock> ?
<bddebian> mwuhahaha
<bddebian> antinobody: I added those names when that stupid page was created :-)
<antinobody> olah Hobbsee
<bddebian> Uhm, I think that is hola?
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee :-)
<antinobody> it is
<antinobody> hola
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<antinobody> I can speak it, I can write it, and I can read it
<antinobody> spelling is another matter
<bddebian> hehe
<antinobody> of course, I'm not so much perfect with any of those either
<antinobody> I see...the shell changes depending on who built the package.  That's why it's different in the two doc files.
<antinobody> Or I'm wrong
<antinobody> again
* LaserJock adjusts a certain wiki page
<antinobody> so, the differences in the doc/arson/Makefile aren't important?
<crimsun> antinobody: no, you're correct. And no, they're not important since Makefile is regenerated each build.
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!  you made it back all right then?
<jsgotangco> you speak as if we are still in the dark ages of aviation heh
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: dark ages? I thought that was just France ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> hoho
<antinobody_> Is there a reason this :
<antinobody_> static uint ArsonCdrdaoProcess::calcTime(
<antinobody_> -		uint hrs, uint mins, uint secs);
<antinobody_> now doesn't work, and has to be changed to this :
<antinobody_> static uint calcTime(uint hrs, uint mins, uint secs);
<antinobody_> did some specific rule somewhere change?
<crimsun> are you looking at 0.9.8beta2-4.3 from Debian?
<antinobody_> s
<crimsun> that's an NMU addressing GCC 4.1 specifically
<antinobody_> although this came up with agistudio as well
<crimsun> you'll need that for Edgy
<antinobody_> Right, I thought it was a compiler upgrade
<antinobody_> In that case, I think the only thing that needs to be changed in arson is the dh_iconcache thing, (I'm right in thinking arson doesn't use kde.mk?)
<crimsun> yes. 4.1 is much more strict.
<crimsun> no reference to "kde.mk" in debian/rules at least
<antinobody_> yeah, ever other difference seems to be either a comment, or in the doc/arson/Makefil (or clearly part of the upgraded package)
<antinobody_> is there a reason we have the dh_iconcache included in these packages and debian doesn't?
<antinobody_> Or did I touch on some kind of political issue of some sort
<antinobody_> with that question
<crimsun> yes. Debian [desktop]  is discussing the ramifications of incorporating dh_iconcache. "They" may wish to adjust its semantics.
<crimsun> s/may//
<antinobody_> what the theorized ramifications?
<crimsun> you'll have to check debian-desktop for that; I don't track it
<antinobody_> that may not be worth the effort, another day, when I've accumulated more boredom maybe
<antinobody> I believe apollon can be synced.  But someone who knows more might want to verify that.
<crimsun> not unless dh_iconcache has been incorporated in Debian
<antinobody> I thought apollon used kde.mk?
<crimsun> oh, yes it does.
<crimsun> yep, a sync is fine
<antinobody> ha!
<Hobbsee> crimsun: does it use cdbs?  and a separate kde.mk file?
<antinobody> half-way to needing two hands to be able to count the number of times I've been right
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes, and yes.
<crimsun> if kde.mk doesn't handle it, then apollon needs a merge.
<Hobbsee> true.  does kde.mk handle it in debian?
<crimsun> doubtful
<Hobbsee> so, how does it get synced then?  syncing's where there's no changes, right?
<antinobody> pssh...how do I verify that?
<crimsun> does kde.mk handle it in Ubuntu?
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure it does, since I touched a few packages for Dapper.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yeah, we changed them so that they did
<LaserJock> if Ubuntu's kde.mk handles it then we don't have to merge
<crimsun> right, so it can be a straight sync.
* Hobbsee hacked cdbs, so anything without a separate kde.mk would get the dh_iconcache
<crimsun> the only outstanding delta for apollon is the dh_iconcache change
<Hobbsee> crimsun: explain syncs and merges before i get confused please?
<Hobbsee> which one has changes, and which one doesnt?
<crimsun> oh, I misunderstood your earlier question.
<bddebian> Hobbsee: A sync comes straight from Debian as is
<crimsun> yes, apollon uses cdbs; no, it doesn't use a separate (non-cdbs) kde.mk
<bddebian> A merge requires some tweaking in Ubuntu
<Hobbsee> bddebian: right, that's the way around i thought it was.
<antinobody> merge = changes, sync = no changes from debian sid, nochange = no change from dapper package
<antinobody> I belive
<Hobbsee> yep
<crimsun> so while Dapper's apollon has the delta, we can drop it for Edgy
<crimsun> [because kde.mk handles it] 
<Hobbsee> but if the package has a separate kde.mk, i expect we'd have to merge it, as debian isnt suppporting dh_iconcache, is that right?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: correct, but see my above correction
<crimsun> apollon doesn't include its own kde.mk; it uses cdbs's
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yeah, of course
* antinobody thanks Hobbsee for hacking cdbs
* Hobbsee has a very good memory of all this iconcache stuff :P
<crimsun> yeah, I touched a few packages myself for Dapper
* Hobbsee just wished that she found out before doing most of the iconcache fixes that we could hack the cdbs
<Hobbsee> oh well.
* antinobody doesn't have a good memory of anything, and is therefore intensely jealous of Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hah
* Hobbsee wishes she didnt have a good memory of some things.
<crimsun> well, the good news is that those deltas can just go poof
<Hobbsee> antinobody: i only did about 40 or so of them - i think the final count was...46?
<Hobbsee> yep :)
* antinobody senses a grass is greener debate
<bddebian> hehe
<antinobody> yeah, I remember that, that was my first contribution to ubuntu
<antinobody> I spent like 9 hours trying to learn to package
<antinobody> ended up getting like 3 hours of sleep
<crimsun> bah, just assign them to bddebian =)
<antinobody> crimsun, that's your solution to everything I take it?
<LaserJock> right
<crimsun> antinobody: well, I don't expect him to wake me up in the morning, but within hurd and ubuntu, sure!
<crimsun> (j/k, of course)
<bddebian> What are you assigning to me now? :-)
<crimsun> I think you just got network-manager
* bddebian runs
<antinobody> oops, I accidently broke the wiki page for a second (I saved an old edit after a new edit, which ironically changed nothing, but confused the page)
<antinobody> oh well, better now
<Hobbsee> crimsun: exactly :P
<antinobody> I see network-manager has a reputation here
<crimsun> it rocks when it works. it's quite frustrating when it almost works.
<antinobody> it's working on my super-duper Dell Inspiron 1000 at the moment
<antinobody> tis quite nice
<crimsun> ipw*?
<antinobody> what is ipw*?
<crimsun> wifi chipset
<Hobbsee> works mostly here - it's just a problem with ndiswrapper.
<antinobody> Linksys wpc54g
<antinobody> although the ndiswrapper hasn't managed to change it to wlan0
<antinobody> it's still eth1
<antinobody> hasn't been a problem though
<antinobody> ver. 3
<antinobody> there was a problem with the pre-installed drivers (bcm43xx)
<antinobody> I should probably check if there's a bug report on that, and write one if there isn't
<crimsun> atheros, I take it
<antinobody> I probably won't though
<Hobbsee> antinobody: cards with marvell 88w8335 chipsets wont work with ndiswrapper > 1.15, i really need to file a bug about that.
<crimsun> wow, nothing > 1.15?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> 1.15 works, and had a nice fix for removing marvell chipsetted cards, but nothing above that works - you cant get a lease.
* Hobbsee couldnt see anything of much use in dmesg etc, but isnt really good with those things yet
<Hobbsee> what would happen if we pulled wine from the repos at all?  seeing as it's always out of date?
<Hawkwind> It's not out of date right now
<bddebian> You would get a lot of 'wineing'? ;-P
<Hawkwind> 0.9.16 is the latest and it's available
<Hawkwind> LOL bddebian
<Hobbsee> hehe true
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: indeed.  but a stable repo for a continually changing app seems a bit silly
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: That is true
<Hawkwind> And since wine is really considered beta....Probably best to put it elsewhere
<Hobbsee> there's plenty of beta software in the repos, it seems - named beta anyway
<LaserJock> well, there are different meanings to beta I suppose
<LaserJock> like "unstable"
<Hobbsee> true
<antinobody> Hobbsee it seems we're both lazy with the bug reporting
<Hobbsee> antinobody: how so?
<Hobbsee> i tend to fix the bugs, not file them :P
<Hobbsee> well....interesting definition of fix
<antinobody> we both have bugs to file that we aren't we haven't bothered to file yet
* antinobody needs to hear more about Hobbsee's interesting definition of fix
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, well, if it was on LP, then i'd file it.  but it looks to be needign to be filed on sourceforge or a mailing list, and that kinda sucks.  and i have to take the encryption off the router again to do it
<Hobbsee> to get the outputs
<bddebian> Well gnight folks
<Hobbsee> night bddebian
<antinobody> gnight bddebian
<antinobody> I should really do my math homework.  And for that reason, I should really learn how to use latex
<Hobbsee> hehe
<antinobody> all right, enough fun for one evening, I'm going to go do homework now.  Enjoy life, and try not to go sane while I'm gone.
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Mithrandir yawns
<Hobbsee> morning Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> hello Hobbsee.
<Mithrandir> getting up after five hours of sleep is definitively too early.
<Hobbsee> ouchy
<Hobbsee> that's why i didnt do it :P
<Mithrandir> also getting up at six in the morning is hard.
<Hobbsee> yep
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* antinobody whistles
<antinobody> did any of you know that multivariable calculus is boring as hell?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> dont tell me that :P
<Hobbsee> i think that's one of the bits for next semester.
<antinobody> oh, sorry
<antinobody> hehe, it's probably going to be better this time than last time
<antinobody> the first time I took the course, it was in the evening, and I kept falling asleep
<antinobody> by the first test, I realized I hadn't caught anything from the course, and just dropped it
<Hobbsee> lol
* Hobbsee has that problem in the morning classes - still too asleep to take anything much in.
* antinobody has a problem with evening classes, mornings aren't so good
<antinobody> ha! which given our time difference means we have problems at roughly the same time
<antinobody> So the next time I'm struggling to stay awake, I'll take some solace in the fact that you're probably suffering too, and for some reason, someone else suffering too makes people feel better
<antinobody> always thought that was odd
<antinobody> dammit
<antinobody> avida has three packages
<antinobody> I'm too lazy to merge three packages
<antinobody> Auto-adaptive genetic system for Artificial Life research?  that may be too complicated for me on principle
<antinobody> oh...the source is the same for all three...
<antinobody> clearly my understanding of packaging is still limited, because I'm confused again
<antinobody> interesting...the dapper version of knoda uses hk_referentialintegrity.h, and the sid version uses hk_font.h in it's place
<antinobody> I don't know much about the new libraries, but they don't sound similar...
<antinobody> ...two, not new. two
<antinobody> also, Hello DarkMageZ nixternal_ and erez, solamente porque
<kelmo> moin
<antinobody> hola kelmo
<antinobody> I spelled it right that time!  I think
<TheMuso> antinobody: Does your IRC client have tab completion?
<antinobody> qu es eso?
<antinobody> er, what is that?
<antinobody> it's konversation
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> antinobody: type ho<tab> and it should go to hobbsee
<antinobody> Hobbsee: it does!
<Hobbsee> :)
<antinobody> Hobbsee: TheMuso kelmo fun
<antinobody> Ok, enough of that
<antinobody> What has Hobbsee been up to all these many days, by the way?
<Hobbsee> exams, pretty much
<Hobbsee> and meeting people :)
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: http://bootsplash.org/14_3.jpg
<antinobody> the latter is fun
<antinobody> the former less so I find
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: What is it supposed to be?
* TheMuso cbb going into X to look.
<jsgotangco> ooppss sorry you're in the terminal hehe
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: that's the group pic we had in paris
* Hobbsee just discovered that i guy she met many years ago (like, about 10) is actually online.
<TheMuso> oh
<TheMuso> I need to look then. Thanks.
<antinobody> Hobbsee: cool
<antinobody> Hobbsee: My roommate often gets bored an looks up people she used to know
<Hobbsee> antinobody: true...except when you're tryign to meet up with someone who you only have a vague idea of what they look like, so dont know if they're the same person or nto
<antinobody> Hobbsee: hee, that can be a problem
<TheMuso> Meh. SOmeone can point me out. I'm there somehwere.
<antinobody> Hobbsee: did you meet them originally in person?  Or is that why you don't know what they look like?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: the one that i met with yesterday, i'd seen some pictures of.  the one i've found today who i used to talk to a bit (brother of a friend) i've not met up with
<Hobbsee> and havent a clue what he looks like either now, really
<antinobody> true, people tend to change a bit over 10 years
<antinobody> I used to be a tall gangly short-brown-haired aqward pre-teen
<jsgotangco> TheMuso: beside dholbach
<antinobody> now I'm a tall gangly long-brown-haired ackward 20-year-old
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: That tells me heaps. :)
<Hobbsee> it may not be 10 - i dont remember exactly when it is
<antinobody> Hobbsee: I'm not going to quote you on it, don't worry
<Hobbsee> heh
<antinobody> Here violent crime is high enough, people are typically skiddish about meeting people they know online.  I can't figure out which came first, the fear or the actual violence
<antinobody> it's a very confusing problem
<antinobody> what causes such things.  I envy people who live places where things are less violent.  Such as most other places...
<antinobody> hmm...I study too much social science, I do.
<TheMuso> I find it fun meeting people online, and then meeting them in person. Often the impression that you get of them from talking online is different to what you find when you meet them in person.
<jsgotangco> yeah
<antinobody> I would imagine it's usually different.  Much is lost in typed conversation, after all
<antinobody> but outside of this whole thing, I rarely meet people via the internet.  Mostly I meet people through friends, work, or school, so I can't say I know that particular experience
* TheMuso had that experience with Paris.
* Hobbsee is meeting more people over the internet now than she used to
<Hobbsee> it's still scary :P
<Hobbsee> different levels of scary based on who they are
* antinobody was too new to go to the Paris thing.  And too poor.
* TheMuso looks forward to meeting Hobbsee in person.
<TheMuso> I can put a name to the voice, but not to a face.
* Mithrandir ended up being enganged to a girl he met on IRC.
<jsgotangco> well i met most of the people in sydney before it was nice seeing them again and meeting new people
<TheMuso> Or what I can see of people's faces anyway.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i suspected as much :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: what, you have no picture or something?
<TheMuso> Kinda hard to explain.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: we lived in the same city, though, so we met up in person fairly quickly.  And I had seen her once before we talked on IRC.
<TheMuso> For example, I can't remember what jsgotangco looked like, but can kinda remember what keybuk looks like, as well as Riddell.
<antinobody> If the next convention ends up being in LA like they mentioned, I might bus down there, if I can come up with somewhere to stay cheaply enough
<TheMuso> iit all depends on how different people look from each other.
<Mithrandir> I'd be very unhappy if the next conference was in the US.
<jsgotangco> me too
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: ah okay
<TheMuso> I would be as well, I must admit.
* antinobody understands why TheMuso and Mithrandir feel so
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah, true.  well, i probably look different to most people around here
<antinobody> but it would be awfully convenient for me
* Hobbsee doenst really care, as she'd be unlikely to be going
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Sure you would. Just do heaps of work for the community and put your name down.
<TheMuso> Worth a shot at the very least.
<antinobody> actually, unless it comes up on one of the very few weeks when I'm not in school, I'm in the same boat as Hobbsee
<TheMuso> You gotta think positive about these things. I have wanted to go for well over a year, and I got there in the end. So I'm happy I stuck to it.
<antinobody> I believe that may be part of what she's referring to
<TheMuso> Maybe, but even to get an invite and to have to turn it down is still something. You know you have/had the chance there, and you are being recognised for your work.,
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: true
<TheMuso> Of course it is.
<jsgotangco> thats true working face to face makes a difference
<Hobbsee> yeah, uni gets in the way - even though i'm told "go anyway" it means an awful lot of uni work to catch up on
<TheMuso> jsgotangco: Damn right it does.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Well it is something to think about at any rate.
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I went to .au for two weeks in the middle of my last semester.. it still worked out.
<Hobbsee> i guess
<Hobbsee> unfortunately, it'd likely be towards the end, not the middle
<TheMuso> Come on, that doesn't sound very convincing.
<Hobbsee> oh hang on....
<Hobbsee> i dont know, i think it ends up being towards the end
<antinobody> toward the end of what?  school?
<Hobbsee> of semester
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I guess it'll be in early November.
<antinobody> oh, the NEXT convention
<Mithrandir> since FinalRelease is Oct 26th.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: At the very very least, you have to come to LCA 07.
<antinobody> where is LCA?
<TheMuso> Australia.
<Hobbsee> antinobody: sydney
<jsgotangco> sydney
<TheMuso> Sydney
<jsgotangco> january
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: that's likely, yeah.  we'll see.
* jsgotangco will definitely be in LCA
<TheMuso> Come on. You are happy to cat away and be part of the community on the net, but you don't wanna meet people face to face?
<antinobody> heh, I should just take a term in sydney during the winter, for the sake of going to that.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i've got no idea what's happening in january.  i say likely, because if i say yes, then find "oh no, i cant do this" suddenly, then people get annoyed
<Yagisan> hmm. I see a chance to annoy in person, er I mean meet you fine folks
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
<jsgotangco> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe - i thought i was the one to annoy everyone else
* Yagisan advises if he has time to visit, his lack of a laptop will make him obvious
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: besides, people in person are scary you know :P
<Yagisan> evening Hobbsee
<rob> sigh
<rob> anyone with revu foo around?
<Hobbsee> rob: siretart?
<rob> dolphin
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: No they're not. Wel, maybe if you can see them. :)
<rob> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of dolphin_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: hehe
<rob> need it deleted
<TheMuso> I wouldn't get annoyed if you had to pull out of LCA. Besides, you have to pay for entry AFAIK.
<TheMuso> This will be m first LCA.
<TheMuso> Anyway.  hope to meet you in person at some point Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i'm sure you will.  especially if you're at slug in july
<TheMuso> I'll be there. It is ard to pull me away from SLUG events. :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* siretart just cleared revu incoming again
<rob> thanks :)
<Hobbsee> bye all
<rob> bye Hobbsee
<Kamping_Kaiser> later
<TheMuso> What a way to disconnect. :)
<Amaranth> That's how I look when I close the lid on my laptop.
<kelmo> hi siretart
<siretart> kelmo: huhu kelmo
<siretart> kelmo: re: wpasupplicant, I wanted to mail you later today. currently, I can only test static wep and unencrypted wifis, both working fine with latest svn for me
<kelmo> siretart: cool, nice to know. any comments regarding the other package "additions" (init script)?
<kelmo> siretart: and, i can wait until later today for an answer about that, so no rush ;-)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<kelmo> siretart: the init script 'wpa-ifupdown' (not directly related to wpa-roam)
<siretart> kelmo: well, it didn't explode for me yet. and I didn't notice malfunctions either
<kelmo> siretart: thats good, there was no intention to make things malfunction ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: ;)
* rob wonders why revu isn't picking up his changes to his package
<kelmo> siretart: well, when you agree, i'll ping Kyle for a new upload, maybe in a day or two?
<rob> I've dputted a new dolphin package about half an hour ago and its still not showing
<siretart> kelmo: I think its okay for upload now. but let's keep the RC bug still open
<siretart> kelmo: at least for this weekend
<kelmo> siretart: sure, wasn't going to touch that yet
<siretart> ok
<kelmo> will prepare it tonight then, thanks
<rob> hmm, so I tried dputting it again, and get the 533 error again
<rob> :(
<crimsun> sigh.
<crimsun> uploads being silently blackholed. Again.
<rob> oh, goody, its not just me
<rob> still bites though
<crimsun> not to revu, to Ubuntu proper.
<rob> oh
<rob> so whats up with revu then?
<crimsun> I think the queue needs to be manually processed
<rob> does it get "stuck" sometimes?
<crimsun> I think the frontend is somewhat disconnected from the backend currently
<jsgotangco> ickk
<rob> for the last 12 hours at least :(
<crimsun> yeah, it has been processed by hand a few times since
<crimsun> ah well, I'll worry about this key situation later. It's becoming a consistent pain in the ass.
<kelmo> siretart: ok, it has been requested
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Lathiat> gr thought i'd have a look at automatix and it bnlows away your sources.list without warning
<Lathiat> mistake that idea was ;p
<rob> yeah, its pretty ugly, that thing
<rob> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu sums it up nicely
<Lathiat> (i have mirrors of all the ubuntnu repos etc as such my sources.list points at that)
<Lathiat> haha
<zul> hey
<siretart> \sh_away_away: is there sth wrong with jabberme.net?
<CarlFK> I need to make a deb that is just a shell script and 3 dependencies - I have looked at making .deb  howtos and got lost - any advice for making a 'simpler' (no compiling) one?
<Toadstool> CarlFK: you may want to have a look at a simple source package such as ketchup
<chillywilly> the shorewall guy is telling me that I have incompatibilities with this kernel and my iptables
<jpatrick> hi Spec
<chillywilly> I am using the amd64 server kernel
<Toadstool> hey jpatrick
<jpatrick> hey Toadstool
<Spec> heya
<Spec> jpatrick: it's up, whee. :)
<Toadstool> hi Spec
<jpatrick> Spec: yeah :)
<Spec> jpatrick: i looked over your(?) config, it seems good, is kubuntu-es pointing to the same IP?
<jpatrick> No idea
<jpatrick> Spec: appartently it asks for two ips when there only is one
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jpatrick> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi jpatrick
<Spec> kubuntu-es.org -> 72.36.139.42
<Spec> dc.ubuntu-us.org -> 69.60.114.106
<Spec> so, you should move the site over completely first, and then switch dns over
<Hobbsee> rob: ping
<jpatrick> Spec: will have to wait for the webmaster then
<Spec> 'k
<jpatrick> Wait he's on
<jpatrick> Spec: what the 72.36.139.42 for?
<Spec> that's where kubuntu-es is pointing to right now
<Spec> whoever controls dns for that needs to change it to the new server, right?
<CarlFK> Toadstool: thanks - I just might get it this time
<Toadstool> np :)
<jpatrick> Spec: yes, it also needs two DNS numbers :/
<Spec> why?
<jpatrick> that's what it asks for
<Spec> where? o.o
<jpatrick> Spec: http://www.piensasolutions.com/
<slomo> siretart: ping?
<siretart> slomo: pong
<slomo> siretart: we can get a nice, new ffmpeg from debian... shared libraries and all ;) do you have some time to do it? i'm already busy with many other things :(
<siretart> slomo: I'm using those libraries in xine-lib for debian/experimental (which is currently in NEW)
<siretart> slomo: you mean I shall merge debian's ffmpeg? I can do this, but I can't promise that I get today to it
<slomo> siretart: well, a sync + adding epoch will do probably... but i meant getting all (build-)rdepends to build against the shared version which is the real work :/
<jpatrick> Spec: any idea?
<siretart> slomo: do you have an idea how many package we speak of? I count xine, vlc, mplayer.
<slomo> siretart: 20 maybe...
<slomo> siretart: it isn't needed to get it done NOW but would be nice to have it before release :)
<siretart> slomo: oh yes, we should declare that as release goal for motumedia team
<slomo> siretart: sounds good :) you'll make a list of all packages?
<slomo> and i merge ffmpeg for now
<siretart> slomo: I'm not sure how to identify them all
<Spec> jpatrick: you could just put the same ip for both
<nexu> any MOTU admin here?
<slomo> siretart: grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends or something... libavcodec-dev, ffmpeg, libpostproc-dev libavformat-dev are the candidates to look for
<siretart> slomo: ah, I think I understand now what you mean
<siretart> slomo: there were some concerns that a dynamically loaded ffmpeg would decrease performance, at least on i386
<siretart> we have to examine this
<slomo> theoretically it should
<slomo> but it shouldn't be very much ;)
<slomo> i wouldn't care for it... let's better make pitti happy for security updates, etc ;)
<siretart> I've also heard that this objection wasn't true for modern binutils/gcc anymore
<jpatrick> Spec: http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snap57oi.png
<slomo> siretart: at program start it should make a small difference... but that's it
<slomo> at least afaik... you're the one who had compiler stuff at university already ;)
<CarlFK> Toadstool: can you point me to a page that explains what the files are?  like ketchup's debian/control is "4" - what is 4?
<siretart> it's not that easy
<siretart> dynamic shared objects with elf are a science for themselves..
<Toadstool> CarlFK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Packaging/Tips?action=show&redirect=PackagingTips for example
<slomo> siretart: ffmpeg is uploaded now
<slomo> i have to do some of the packages anyway for libraw1394-8 transition
<siretart> slomo: cool!
<slomo> hrm
<slomo> seems like all package may only need a rebuild
<slomo> unless the ffmpeg guys broke the API again
<Spec> jpatrick: what is meinhosting?
<jpatrick> a hosting company
<Spec> so you're switching from them to the ubuntu server?
<jpatrick> Yes
<Spec> so in dns just put www.kubuntu-es.org, and put the IP i gave you earlier
<Spec> and for the bottom one i guess try to put kubuntu-es.org
<jpatrick> Spec: ERROR: The server IP is not correct
<Spec> you changed ns8.meinhosting.com -> www.kubuntu-es.org ?
<jpatrick> yes
<Spec> and this is for DNS right?
<jpatrick> Yes
<Spec> well, keep trying i guess, all i know is www.kubuntu-es.org needs to point to 69.60.114.106
<jpatrick> Spec: look at /etc/hosts on ganges ?
<Spec> where did .107 come from?
<jpatrick>  /etc/network/interfaces
<Spec> I just did: ifconfig eth0:1 69.60.114.107
<Spec> can you point kubuntu-es.org to that IP?
<jpatrick> invalid ip
* Hobbsee throws a few bouncing cows at ogra as well
* ogra hides
* ogra hopes it were no mad cows
* Hobbsee finds ogra and screams at him.
<ogra> wheee
<Hobbsee> hehee
* ogra hides even more
<imbrandon> crimsun, ping
* Hobbsee finds ogra, screams at him more, rinse and repeat at infinitum.
<Hobbsee> crud!
<Hobbsee> now i'm gonna get yelled at, i think :P
<ogra> nah :)
<Hobbsee> i think mum's up, and it's 2am, and she's already angry at me.
<Hobbsee> mind you, if she is still angry, then maybe she'll leave me alone.
<ozamosi> Hobbsee: run! Go to sleep!
<Hobbsee> heh....this is starting to become routine, it sounds like :P
<imbrandon> lol
<ozamosi> Yesterday, when it was 5am and my mum got up to go to work, I was still up, but I think I managed to fake sleeping :)
* imbrandon wonders how the deity makes mom angary
<imbrandon> lol @ ozamosi thats why i love living on my own, then again my wife could be pretty angary if i dident come to bed ;)
<Hobbsee> ozamosi: hah
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: not if she's asleep anyway?
<imbrandon> if she is asleep its ok but if she wakes up for something and i'm on the computer, lol , all hell ...... well you can imagine
<Hobbsee> hehe, yeah
<Hobbsee> anyway, nigth all
<imbrandon> gnight Hobbsee sleep well
<imbrandon> dream of wifi cards that work without ndiswrapper
<imbrandon> ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ogra> night Hobbsee
* Hobbsee really beds now.
<Hobbsee> exit
<Hobbsee> gah.
* Yagisan blinks and looks around.
* Yagisan mutters to himself. typical - I'm always the last to go to bed
<_ion> Yeah.
<Yagisan> it's only 3am. anyway, I've finished making promotion screenshots for my pet project, so I should drag myself to bed
<_ion> Tue Jun 27 19:58:58 EEST 2006
<chillywilly> I just upgraded to dapper amd64 but shorewall no longer logs to /var/log/messages like it used to
<Yagisan> _ion: Wed Jun 28 03:18:25 EST 2006 here
<TeacherTodd813> Someone has created a Debian package that's currently in the unstable branch on the Debian site, but it's not in the Ubuntu lists.
<TeacherTodd813> How hard would it be to make it Ubuntu-friendly?
<imbrandon> TeacherTodd813, if its un unstable it will most likely get synced to edgy
<TeacherTodd813> What would I have to do to use it with Dapper?
<TeacherTodd813> I mean, I'm willing to try packaging it for the Universe, but I need to know what I'm in for.
<TeacherTodd813> Does the existence of a Debian package simplify things, or do I have to start from source anyway?
<ogra> TeacherTodd813, you can only ask the backports team to try to build the edgy package in dapper
<ogra> if that works they'll do a backport
<TeacherTodd813> Does learning how to do this involve hours, days, or weeks of work?
<ogra> just wait for it to be synced
<bddebian> YEARS ;-)
<TeacherTodd813> Ouch.
<ozamosi> Hey, if you're lucky, you may be able to install the debian package (no guarrantees it will work, of course)
<TeacherTodd813> Yeah. I read the little note that said, "Installing Debian packages could hose your system."
<TeacherTodd813> Or something like that.
<ogra> thats right
<ogra> dont do it ...
<TeacherTodd813> I'm planning to move my lab at school, which is currently Windows, to Ubuntu.
<bddebian> TeacherTodd813: Nice.  Have you looked at Edubuntu?
<ogra> apt-get build-dep <package> && apt-get source -b <package> && sudo dpkg -i <package>
<TeacherTodd813> But I teach programming, and I need my Scheme interpreter...
<ogra> thast how you can use debian packages from deb-src lines in your sources list ...
<ogra> never use binarys not built for ubuntu
<TeacherTodd813> So that would download the source and compile it locally?
<TeacherTodd813> Would it do cool things like stick the program in the menu?
<bddebian> If it has a .desktop file
<ogra> if it doesnt, bddebian knows how to help you getting one in ;)
* bddebian runs away ;-)
<TeacherTodd813> But, seriously, if I were very motivated, and had summers off, how long would it take to package something for Ubuntu.
<TeacherTodd813> And does having a Debian package already help?
<bddebian> TeacherTodd813: It depends on your skill level.  You might be able to do it in a few hours.  Or if you are an idiot like me, it might take years. :-)
<TeacherTodd813> (I did manage to compile from source and install it, but that's just not nearly as cool, doesn't make it available for everybody else, and doesn't get automatic updates.)
<bddebian> Well SOMEONE has to package up those "automatic" updates too ya know.. ;-)
<TeacherTodd813> Yeah. But I'm thinking of my students.
<phanatic> evening
<Gloubiboulga> export SOMEONE=bddebian
<TeacherTodd813> I'm hoping to inspire some people to run Ubuntu at home.
<Gloubiboulga> hi phanatic :)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: Heh, thanks buddy :-)
<phanatic> heya Gloubiboulga and bddebian :)
<Gloubiboulga> hehe, hi bddebian :)
<phanatic> siretart: ping
<TeacherTodd813> Thanks for the input, everybody.
<nexu> " /usr/share/locale/locale.alias is also in package locales"
<nexu> how do i solve that?
<bddebian> nexu: Take it out :-)
<nexu> but ... i never put it in o_O
<crimsun> imbrandon: pong
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<imbrandon> hey , i was wondering if you could tell me the best way to debug a hardlock, i have a driver that hardlocks the system every time its loaded and unable to get a console etc i dont know how to debug
<imbrandon> or even doa usefull bug report
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> "blah.ko dosent work" kinda sucks
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<crimsun> hi bddebian
<imbrandon> is dmesg cleared on every reboot ?
<imbrandon> becosue the only thing i can do is hit power
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<crimsun> dmesg, the kernel ring, is active per-boot
<crimsun> it's logged to /var/log/kern.log
<crimsun> if you're extremely lucky, something will be in there
<crimsun> otherwise, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSystemCrash
<imbrandon> ahh well its the rt8185 driver compiled from source from realteck site , kk thanks, i just wasent sure where to even start
<imbrandon> realtek*
<crimsun> if it won't respond to alt+sysrq, that's pretty bad shape
<nexu> crimsun:
<nexu> ius there a difference between how locale.alias is deal with on amd64 than i386 ?
<crimsun> nexu: not that I'm aware, why?
<nexu> crimsun: i have ppl that cant install the package i made on amd64 because of locale.alias file
<nexu> i'm not its not even in the .deb
<nexu> so i have no idea why it doesnt install for them
<crimsun> please ask them for ``dpkg -D3773 -i foo.deb'' output
<crimsun> barring that, strace -fF
<nexu> i'm telling him to get on fnode
<nexu> i'm not a relay messenger
<nexu> x_x
<nexu> crimsun: check on #bmp
<ivoks> uh
<jpatrick> hi
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<ivoks> hi
* ivoks so happy
<ivoks> last missing app for linux i needed is here
<bddebian> w00t
<ivoks> bricscad
<crimsun> would someone please import 0xC88ABDA3 from keyserver.ubuntu.com and confirm its expiration date?
<Gloubiboulga> pub   1024D/C88ABDA3 2003-06-23 [expires: 2007-06-26] 
<bddebian> Gah, beat me to it :-)
<Gloubiboulga> hehe
<crimsun> Gloubiboulga: excellent, thank you
<Gloubiboulga> crimsun, np
<crimsun> apparently despite my having taking steps to use an unexpired key (I uploaded to wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net 2 days ago), it still hasn't synced.
<crimsun> when in doubt, swiftly kick the key in the pants.
<bddebian> heh
<crimsun> hah
<bddebian> ho
<crimsun> indeed, my hackaround has succeeded
<crimsun> never again will I upload to wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net.
<bddebian> Grr, why the hell does my edgy pbuilder keep using dapper repos??
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<LaserJock> cause you aren't telling it to do the right thing? :-)
<bddebian> Even if I pass mirror= and/or othermirror= it still uses dapper
<LaserJock> are you using --overide-config ?
<LaserJock> or whatever it is
<bddebian> Yep
<bddebian> and --distribution edgy
<LaserJock> and are you using sources.list in /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/?
<bddebian> Well that is the issue.  If I change that it will dick up my dapper pbuilder won't it?
<bddebian> I have my pbuilder-edgy script.  Is there some way I can make a unique pbuilderrc for that?
<LaserJock> bddebian: the way I used to do it was have seperate pbuilderrc and apt.config/ in ~/ for each pbuilder
<LaserJock> but now I just use the script that comes with pbuilder and I haven't had any problems that I know of
<bddebian> Hmm, OK, thx
<crimsun> the script is far easier to use in 99% of the cases
<bddebian> Are you referring to pbuilder.sh ?
<crimsun> /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh
<Sp4rKy> hi
<bddebian> crimsun: That's the one I used for /usr/local/bin/pbuild-edgy
<bddebian> Heya Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> hey bddebian
<Sp4rKy> i've few strange issue with audacious packaging :/
<Sp4rKy> E: audacious: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libaudacious.so.2.0.0
<Sp4rKy> so i've tried to create my own shlibs.local file
<Sp4rKy> but i've this  :
<Sp4rKy> max@Sp4rKy-laptop (22:06) /home/max/audacious/audacious-1.0.0 #dpkg-shlibdeps -O ~/ppp/usr/bin/audacious
<Sp4rKy> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of libaudacious.so not recognized
<Sp4rKy> shlibs:Depends=libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.9.0), libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libcairo2 (>= 1.0.2-2), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.3.0), libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.5.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.12.3), libx11-6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxext6, libxfixes3, libxi6, libxinerama1, libxml2 (>= 2.6.24), libxrandr2, libxrender1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)
<Sp4rKy> and no line started by "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency"
<Sp4rKy> so i don't need to create a shlibs.local filoe, right ?
<crimsun> you can make an override for it
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: but why do i have this message ?
<Sp4rKy> all the output is :
<Sp4rKy> max@Sp4rKy-laptop (21:50) /home/max/e17apt #lintian /var/cache/pbuilder/result/audacious_1.0.0-1_i386.deb /var/cache/pbuilder/result/audacious-dev_1.0.0-1_i386.deb
<Sp4rKy> Tried to issue unknown tag unknown-interpreter
<Sp4rKy> E: audacious: ldconfig-symlink-referencing-wrong-file usr/lib/libaudacious.so -> /tmp/buildd/audacious-1.0.0/debian/audacious/usr/lib/libaudacious.so.2.0.0 instead of libaudacious.so.2.0.0
<Sp4rKy> W: audacious: non-dev-pkg-with-shlib-symlink usr/lib/libaudacious.so.2.0.0 usr/lib/libaudacious.so
<Sp4rKy> E: audacious: no-shlibs-control-file usr/lib/libaudacious.so.2.0.0
<Sp4rKy> W: audacious: package-name-doesnt-match-sonames libaudacious
<Sp4rKy> Tried to issue unknown tag unknown-interpreter
<Sp4rKy> zsh: exit 1     lintian /var/cache/pbuilder/result/audacious_1.0.0-1_i386.deb
<bddebian> aaaahhh why doesn't this work...
<Sp4rKy> i've no personnal ldconfig "symlinkage"
<bddebian> crimsun: How do you use that script?
<crimsun> bddebian: I don't. I use conffiles.
<bddebian> crimsun: How do you do that?
<LaserJock> I just do something like "pbuilder-dapper create" and then "pbuilder-dapper update" or "pbuilder-dapper build *.dsc"
<LaserJock> brb
<crimsun> bddebian: I have separate conffiles for each flavor from hoary{,-backports}, breezy{,-backports}, dapper{,-backports}, and edgy
<bddebian> crimsun: Aye, but where?  And how do you tell pbuilder which ones to use?  Do you use --configfile?
<crimsun> bddebian: ~/.pbuilder{,hoary{,-backports},breezy{,-backports},dapper{,-backports}}
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> bddebian: ~/.pbuilderrc.{,hoary{,-backports},breezy{,-backports},dapper{,-backports}}
<crimsun> my ~/.pbuilderrc. always tracks the current dev
<Sp4rKy> pleassseeee
<bddebian> So, ~/.pbuilderrc.edgy will get picked up automagically?
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: You are building a library in the package
<bddebian> Did you intend to?
<crimsun> bddebian: no, if I invoke pbuilder, I get an error intentionally. I moved /etc/pbuilder{rc,/pbuilderrc} into /usr/local/pbuilder/  and deliberately named ~/.pbuilderrc. (instead of ~/.pbuilderrc) so that I /have/ to use --configfile
<crimsun> bddebian: that way I'm forced to think about which pbuilder I want to use
<crimsun> (when you do things the hard way, you want to make sure you have some sort of checks in place)
<Gloubiboulga> grr, thunderbird send my mails with the wrong address
<Sp4rKy> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> crimsun: This is in my script, shouldn't it do the same thing?
<bddebian>    sudo pbuilder $OPERATION \
<bddebian>       --configfile $HOME/pbuild-edgy/pbuilderrc \
<bddebian>       --basetgz $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION-base.tgz \
<bddebian>       --distribution $DISTRIBUTION \
<crimsun> bddebian: I don't know what you have in $HOME/pbuild-edgy/pbuilderrc
<crimsun> (the point of the script is to mitigate the need for multiple conffiles, so...)
<bddebian> Well I'm trying to split the difference :-)
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: for the first lintian error, you shouldn't have that path hardcoded.
<LaserJock> bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16652 is my pbuilder-dapper script
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: for the first lintian warning, .so goes in audacious-dev, not in audacious
<LaserJock> bddebian: all you would have to do is replace DISTRIBUTION to get edgy
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: for the second lintian error, you can either create an override or use a .local.
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: like i've said, i haven't hardcoded this path (i think) and i haven't create any symlink :/
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: wait, what binary packages does your source package generate?
<bddebian> Laser_away: Have you actually created an edgy one yet? :-)
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: /usr/bin/audacious
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: /packages/ not executables
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: oups , audacious and aoudacious-dev
<bddebian> Sp4rKy: You need to make sure the .so stuff goes to audacious-dev package, not audacious
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: so where does libaudacious come from?
<bddebian> This is stupid
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: hopefully you're not generating a libaudacious binary package?
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: no
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: do you have this source package posted publicly?
<crimsun> bddebian: gimme a sec, I'll try the script route
<Sp4rKy> crimsun: yes (audacious at revu)
<crimsun> bddebian: sec, just double-checking my adjustment
<bddebian> I think I'm an idiot
<bddebian> Well I know I'm an idiot but I think I did something stupid
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure all you need is one line
<crimsun> just verifying
<bddebian> Hmm, can you not use the ~ in a config file?
<crimsun> I don't for sanity reasons.
<crimsun> you shouldn't have to use a conffile at all
<bddebian> Hah, got it
<bddebian> POS
<crimsun> zing.
<bddebian> zing?
* bddebian starts merging insight ;-)
<crimsun> the only line you needed was:
<crimsun> --othermirror deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu $DISTRIBUTION universe main restricted multiverse \
<bddebian> If you say so :-)
<crimsun> I just verified it.
<crimsun> works fine
<bddebian> Hmm, insight is only upgraded on i386 and m68k
<crimsun> it's upgraded at all?
<bddebian> crimsun: For i386 and m68k:  6.3.50+cvs.2005.11.16-1
<crimsun> heh, pretty spectacular failures on the other arches
<bddebian> :-)
<sivang> have universe mergers started already?
<ogra> sivang, see the release schedule
<crimsun> make[4] : *** [../.././bfd/doc/bfd.info]  Error 1
<crimsun> due to missing makeinfo
<bddebian> heh
<sivang> ogra: ah right, I had issue setting it up in my evo ;-)
* sivang goes for the wiki page
<imbrandon> hrm is there an edgy script for --> /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts
<crimsun> just add texinfo to the build-depends, that would work.
<bddebian> crimsun: Bring it over?
<crimsun> bddebian: err?
<bddebian> crimsun: Should I try to build the newer version?
<crimsun> bddebian: sure
<StevenK> Ouch! UVF is in the middle of July.
<crimsun> imbrandon: ...?
<bddebian> imbrandon: No, you have to build a dapper pbuilder then update afaik
<crimsun> imbrandon: are you /running/ edgy?
<imbrandon> no makin a dpbuilder for edgy in dapper
<imbrandon> s/d//
<crimsun> dapper's pbuilder has no such script.
<crimsun> unless you copied it by hand, only 0.3.3.0ubuntu3 [edgy]  has it
<sivang> crimsun: I recall Scott saying that if you use LC_ALL="C" then it works, otherwise it explodes
<imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ ./pbuilder-edgy create
<imbrandon> W: /home/brandon/.pbuilderrc does not exist
<imbrandon> Distribution is edgy.
<imbrandon> Building the build environment
<imbrandon>  -> running debootstrap
<imbrandon> /usr/sbin/debootstrap
<imbrandon> E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/edgy
<ogra> imbrandon, just upgrade a dapper pbuilder
<crimsun> imbrandon: ...that's precisely what I'm saying.
<imbrandon> kk
<ogra> see the PbuilderHowto
<crimsun> imbrandon: if you want to use the scripts, the easiest way is simply to add that one line I pasted above for bddebian
<crimsun> 16:53 < crimsun> --othermirror deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu  $DISTRIBUTION universe main restricted multiverse \
<imbrandon> i am
<imbrandon> thats in ./pbuilder-edgy
<crimsun> I named mine pbuilder-edgy.sh
<imbrandon> yea same thing
<crimsun> oh, you didn't remove --distribution
<crimsun> that's the other adjustment I made
<imbrandon> no i dident , hrm here is what i use exactly, lemme pastebin it
<crimsun> it falls back to dapper when you remove the --distribution line
<crimsun> then because of --othermirror it will dist-upgrade to edgy automatically after dapper base is bootstrapped
<imbrandon> ahh ok, but please scan this to make sure
<imbrandon> but i will remove --distr
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16658
<crimsun> http://pastebin.ca/73447
<imbrandon> crimsun, hrm ok so i create it with no --distro and then add it back with "edgy" and update
<imbrandon> ?
<imbrandon> hrm that wont work
<imbrandon> becosue the dir names
<imbrandon> gah
<crimsun> imbrandon: just cp /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh over and apply the diff I gave you
* imbrandon kicks pbuilder
<ogra> If you want to rebuild a package from universe or build a new one that needs a package out of main you will need to edit /etc/pbuilderrc again, changing:
<ogra>     OTHERMIRROR="deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy universe multiverse"
<ogra> Now you need to update your chroot with the new configuration:
<ogra>     sudo pbuilder update --distribution breezy --override-config
<bddebian> Uh oh, I think I started something :-)
<ogra> replace breezy with edgy there
<ogra> thats quoted from the wikipage
<ogra> and works well here
<imbrandon> orga but i'm running multipals of the from scripts and base dirs i already have created, i would rather understand why i'm changing somehting than just to change it
<imbrandon> IE there is no edgy debootstrap yet for dapper
* bddebian adds texinfo build-dep to insight and tries a pbuild
<crimsun> imbrandon: the reason my diff works is precisly due to what ogra pasted
<imbrandon> gah but .... ok i'm not explaining myself correct
<ogra> because there is no edgy debootstrap for dapper you need to upgrade a existing chroot ... whats so problematic about that  ?
<imbrandon> orga becouse i based my dirs off off $distrobution , personal problem i guess
<sivang> anyways the result is the same, so what should you care?
<imbrandon> right right
<sivang> imbrandon: :-)
<sivang> imbrandon: I did not get the problem about how you based your dir off of $distrobution? is this s special way to name the chroot's root dir?
<imbrandon> sivang, misundersatand ing by me
<imbrandon> crimsun, i put that patch on and still get ......
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> checking system version (for dynamic loading)... ../.././tcl/unix/configure: line 7061: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
<bddebian> ../.././tcl/unix/configure: line 7061: `        OSF*)'
<imbrandon> err nevermind crim
<tefera> a friend needs to join https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-am. but the menu boxes that hold the "join" link do not apear on the page. we tried wih other pages. It seems it works on some not on the others.
<crimsun> imbrandon: ?
<imbrandon> i got it nm
<imbrandon> thanks though
<crimsun> k
<bddebian> crimsun: You think the error above just needs a reconf?
<crimsun> bddebian: more than likely, but I haven't test-built
<yipe> no this isn't right...
<bddebian> crimsun: OK, dumb question time.  autoreconf -f -i -s fails.  How the hell do I know when to use that vs autoconf, etc?
<crimsun> bddebian: autoreconf should do all that for you (instead of invoking aclocal, automake, autoheader, autoconf)
<crimsun> bddebian: what does it fail on?
<bddebian> /usr/share/aclocal/KXL.m4:6: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_KXL
<bddebian> configure.in:2121: error: possibly undefined macro: AS_FOR_TARGET
<bddebian>       If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow.
<bddebian>       See the Autoconf documentation.
<bddebian> autoreconf: /usr/bin/autoconf failed with exit status: 1
<slomo_> bddebian: you may need to set a newer default automake version via update-alternatives
<bddebian> slomo_: There is a newer version that 1.9?
<bddebian> s/that/than/
<slomo_> no
<bddebian> Later folks.  Thanks for your time/patience crimsun :-)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-28
<cypher> i was trying packaging
<LaserJock> good for him :-)
<LaserJock> I'm glad he let us know
<LaserJock> for what it's worth, to get an edgy pbuilder I just did:
<LaserJock> copy pbuilder-dapper to pbuilder-edgy
<LaserJock> changed DISTRIBUTION to edgy
<LaserJock> copied the dapper base.tgz to edgy-base.tgz
<crimsun> that's way more work than necessary.
<crimsun> two-line diff above somewhen
<LaserJock> ran pbuilder-edgy update --override-config
<crimsun> you've already got the script; make /it/ do the hard work ;)
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see why that would have helped me out much
<crimsun> you apply the diff and run ``./pbuilder-edgy create'', and it does it all for you?
<crimsun> to each his/her own, of course
<LaserJock> ah, but I didn't want to create I wanted to just update
<LaserJock> although it might not have mattered
<LaserJock> I figured an update might pull less packages
<crimsun> the version I pasted above is a dapper->edgy dist-upgrade
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't see how that could be but I'll take your word for it ;-)
<crimsun> by removing the --distribution line, it defaults to dapper. It creates a dapper pbuilder, then with --othermirror it updates && dist-upgrades to edgy after the dapper base is in place.
<LaserJock> ahhhhh
<LaserJock> sneaky
<crimsun> "efficient"
<LaserJock> these scripts have really made pbuilder a lot easier for me
<LaserJock> I was getting lost in all the pbuilderrc and apt.config/ stuff
<crimsun> they're definitely clean
<LaserJock> so do we have a merge list yet?
<crimsun> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-June/000709.html
<LaserJock> well, but MoM lists
<LaserJock> are we going to use the same list system we did in dapper?
<crimsun> no idea. I think we're waiting on:
<crimsun> 19:07 < Keybuk> getting mom fed with sufficient kittens first
<LaserJock> yeah, that's what prompted my question
<LaserJock> I suppose I can run through my Science list and start working on the ones I know
<crimsun> yep, that's a good idea
<bddebian> Heya gang
<anibal> where can I find documentation about merging packages?
<bddebian> There is a wiki page on it
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
<bddebian> Thx crimsun
<anibal> crimsun, thanks
<LaserJock> I also wrote a section in the Packaging Guide ;-)
<anibal> and how I go about uploading my packages?
<anibal> LaserJock, what's the URL, please?
<crimsun> anibal: straight from Debian, or?
<LaserJock> anibal: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<crimsun> anibal: straight Debian syncs would be handled by the MoM admin (here, Keybuk)
<crimsun> anibal: but I'm not sure what packages you're referring to
<anibal> crimsun, yep, but some have a small diff because I'm still not using the same init files
<anibal> crimsun, http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=anibal
<anibal> I'm interested in merging my packages soon after I upload them to debian
<anibal> LaserJock, thanks
<crimsun> anibal: ok, when they're in Sid, just merge them and upload them to Ubuntu (if you're in the Launchpad ubuntu-dev group)
<anibal> at the moment, I'm very interested in mergin the NFSv4 packages
<anibal> I'm not in the  Launchpad ubuntu-dev group yet, I guess I'll need someone to sponsor me first
<crimsun> anibal: libnfsidmap will be synced
<crimsun> nfs-utils will require a merge
<crimsun> I'm happy to look at it when you deem it ready
<crimsun> (dang, the version of libnfsidmap is pretty old in dapper)
<anibal> crimsun, what's your email address, please?
<crimsun> anibal: crimsun@ubuntu.com
<anibal> crimsun, thanks
<crimsun> I'm having a terrible time mistyping madison<->source this evening
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I just have general spelling problems
<bmonty> hi everyone
<crimsun> hi bmonty, StevenK
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bddebian> Hiya bmonty
<bmonty> hi crimsun, LaserJock
<bmonty> ....and bddebian!
<bmonty> so merges are open now?
<crimsun> ja
<bmonty> what is the link to the merge page?
<crimsun> the MoM list? I don't think there's an official one yet
<bmonty> ok, so we can't really start working merges yet then
<LaserJock> we can do them manually :-)
<bddebian> Aye, if I weren't stupid :-)
<bmonty> but there is no list to say which packages couldn't be merged automatically, right?
<zul> hey hub
<hub> hi
<LaserJock> bmonty: if they are already merged then there is nothing for MoM to do I suppose
<LaserJock> we have a list of what packages need syncing or merging
<bmonty> url?
<LaserJock> bmonty: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/todolist.txt I guess
<LaserJock> but I'm using my own list for MOTU Science
<zul> heh arent you special ;)
<LaserJock> zul: of course ;-)
<LaserJock> not really, I make the list with lucas' program so ...
<bmonty> I think it would make more sense to let MoM merge packages and then fix the ones that can't be done automatically
<bmonty> or is the plan to not use MoM for edgy?
<crimsun> afaik keybuk's poking MoM atm
<zul> its going to work this time...i can feel it in my bones
<LaserJock> hehe
<bddebian> heh
<zul> wohoo...it worked
<carl_> apt-get source wine - is there a way I can specify verion 0..9.15 (current is 16)
<crimsun> you can specify versions that are in the repo, sure.
<crimsun> 0.9.9-0ubuntu2 is the version in the repo (in dapper)
<crimsun> so no, by default you cannot get 0.9.15 or 0.9.16 or whatever.
<carl_> thanks.
<carl_> I found 12 and 16 - but no 15
<crimsun> you must be using upstream's deb repo
<carl_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildingWineFromSource
<carl_> i followed that
<bddebian> where the heck has ajmitch been, I haven't seen him for a couple of days?
<crimsun> he's travelling to .au
<bddebian> Ah
<LaserJock> hmm, mentors.debian.net has been redone
<ajmitch> bddebian: travelling, and coding :P
<LaserJock> written in Python
<crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, looks nicer.
<bddebian> ajmitch: Well that is a switch..
* bddebian ducks
<LaserJock> I wonder if they made it more REVU like ;-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: and this is why I should avoid here more often
<bddebian> :-)
* bddebian hugs ajmitch
<zul> both of you are slackers in my books
* bddebian kicks zul
* zul punches bddebian 
<zul> hah..
<ajmitch> thanks zul
<zul> no problem
<bddebian> Grrr
<bddebian> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/X11_defaults/': No such file or directory
<ajmitch> so fix it then
<bddebian> Well I want to just copy that dir over but these damn cdbs packages are just too "magical" for me
<bddebian> crimsun: Any chance you could help me for a sec?
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: not great, mum's angry at me.
<Hobbsee> so if anyone wants to invite me out for the day or something, that'd be good hehe
<bddebian> Sure, come on over ;-P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<bddebian> I think it would be a long ride for the day though ;-)
<crimsun> bddebian: what's up?
<bddebian> crimsun: I can't figure how how/where this crap is installing to
<bddebian> All the install files point to debian/tmp/foo but that isn't where they are installed..?
<crimsun> bddebian: what's the dh compat level?
<bddebian> OH, heh, hmm ,hang on
<bddebian> Is that in compat?
<crimsun> debian/compat or exported from debian/rules
<bddebian> compat has 4
<crimsun> ok, so generally that will use debian/$package instead of debian/tmp. What does debian/rules do to install?
<bddebian> The files are ending up in debian/$package/foo
<bddebian> It's cdbs
<crimsun> right, ok.
<bddebian> How much detail do you want from install:?
<crimsun> debian/rules posted will suffice
<bddebian> http://pastebin.us/748
<crimsun> bddebian: well, just looking at debian/rules, DESTDIR needs to be realigned
<crimsun> why it's told to install into debian/tmp/usr is beyond me
<crimsun> seems pretty wrong
<crimsun> .oO( why is DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET even set? )
<bddebian> Dunno, I "borrowed" the rules file from scilab 3.0 ;-)
<crimsun> I'd start by killing that DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET line
<bddebian> Should I remove that and make the .install files do $package/foo/bar ?
<crimsun> yep, that's what I'd do
<bddebian> Hmm, I still need a DESTDIR or --prefix don't I?
<crimsun> only if it's not handled by cdbs
<bddebian> OK
<bddebian> Hmm, something just isn't right
<crimsun> well, if something's not right, discard the old packaging and start afresh
<Toadstool> 'morning
<bddebian> Heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi bddebian
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<bddebian> crimsun: Well I thought about that but I know little to nothing about cdbs and I hate to change the build system
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
* crimsun points bddebian to LaserJock's packaging guide section on cdbs ;)
<crimsun> he's the maintainer, too, so you get to flame him
* crimsun ducks
<LaserJock> ouch
<bddebian> Where's the best place to get that?
<LaserJock> actually, if you find it lacking then you get to rewrite it ;-)
<crimsun> System> Help> System Documentation
<LaserJock> bddebian: on your computer
<crimsun> (I think? I don't have yelp installed)
<LaserJock> naughty crimsun
<crimsun> hey, I've had to sacrifice to get pbuilders on this machine
<bddebian> Pfft isn't there a web page somewhere
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> go to help.ubuntu.com
<bddebian> I don't have the Luxury of having my Ubuntu machines handy at all times :(
<LaserJock> or you can buy a print copy at lulu.com/ubuntu-doc
<bddebian> Ah OK, thx LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: yes, have an honest to goodness Ubuntu box to work on is indeed a luxury
<bddebian> Well I have 3 Ubuntu boxes at work but I can't really "work" on them ;-)
<LaserJock> the only Ubuntu box is a 1.3 GHz P4 with 256 MB of RAM and somebody else working on it :/
<LaserJock> so I try to sneak a quick (yeah right) build in when I can
<bddebian> Well I have 1 laptop with kUbuntu, a Dell P4 desktop with Ubuntu, and a Compaq Proliant ML350 that I killed trying to upgrade to edgy ;-)
<crimsun> I have, uh, a Pentium 233 MMX.
<bddebian> WHAT?
* bddebian puts crimsun on the hardware list :)
<crimsun> this a state university. We don't have funds.
<crimsun> (the Canonical-sponsored laptop doesn't count because it's not "mine")
<bddebian> You have no machine of your own?
<LaserJock> crimsun: that's what federal grant money is for
<crimsun> LaserJock: hah, if only. In actuality, it goes to subsidize visas and foreign students (which is fine by me).
<LaserJock> hmm, got us 4 new iMacs
<LaserJock> but yeah, people cost a whole lot of money
<bddebian> crimsun: I can get you a desktop if you want one.  Or possibly a laptop in a couple months but the laptops are harder to come by
* jsgotangco waves at bddebian =D
<crimsun> bddebian: I'm good, but thanks for the consideration
<jsgotangco> hehe
<bddebian> jsgotangco: Where are you ?  Shipping overseas is mega-expensive
<jsgotangco> just kidding ;)
* jsgotangco has enough amd64 hardware at home
<bddebian> Ack, I wish I had an amd64
<bddebian> And hadn't given away all my NewWorld Powerbooks
<bddebian> Oh and a Sparc.. :-)
* jsgotangco wished he learned about automotive electronics before
<jsgotangco> my car alarm just got busted and my car wont start i had someone fix it up
<bddebian> Yeah, that sucks
<bddebian> Ah bedtime, thanks again crimsun.  And LaserJock
<crimsun> 'night
<TheMuso> Looks like MOM has not choaked yet.
<TheMuso> is it the same as before? Do we file a bug report about the merging of packages we wish to take a lock on as it were?
<LaserJock> TheMuso: not sure
<crimsun> TheMuso: that's what people have been doing
<TheMuso> crimsun: Ok thanks.
<crimsun> I've been doing it differently; the packages I've touched are all in bzr
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<Hobbsee> i have a wishlist.   that we have a "developer" label that gets attached to our nicks at the forums :P
<crimsun> if you're a Canonical employee, that's already the case
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I don't want a huge target like that hung round my neck
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> good point
<bluefoxicy> it wouldn't be around your neck
<bluefoxicy> it'd be painted on your forehead
<TheMuso> crimsun: What are you doing about your bzr trees? Are you using the new launchpad stuff to mirror/publish them?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you don't already?
<crimsun> TheMuso: yep
<TheMuso> Ok.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't post of the forums
<ajmitch> s/of/on/
<LaserJock> hmm
* TheMuso used to love forums about 4-5 years ago, but now he dislikes them, as they aren't as efficient as mailing lists.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: having an Ubuntu member tag seems like a cool idea
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: that it does
<LaserJock> it does?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> as in, that it does, as in, yes that sounds like a good idea.
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> it's getting late and I'm still sick
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe listing LP karama as well as the forum beans
<crimsun> I dunno, I agree with ajmitch. We should have something like tor for ubuntuforums.
<crimsun> "A Ubuntu member"
<crimsun> which one? who knows?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: something that makes us sound like we know what we're talking about
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<crimsun> Hobbsee: well, it wouldn't be like ubuntu.member.hobbsee. It'd be more like ubuntu.member.
<Hobbsee> yes
<crimsun> but being a member only implies long-standing contribution =)
<Hobbsee> yeah
* antinobody puts his hands in the air like he just don't care
<antinobody> hello rraphink
<rraphink> yo antinobody
<antinobody> rraphink I hear tell of an impending REVU day?
<rraphink> antinobody: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-motu ML?
<lucas> anybody has some news about the merge run ?
<antinobody> rraphink pienso
<lucas> seems not all merges were generated
<lucas> (or maybe only main ones ?)
<TheMuso> Universe packages were also done.
<TheMuso> As far as I can see.
<lucas> not all of them, then ?
<TheMuso> Probably not.
<TheMuso> Hrad to tell since all the dirs appear to be there that are normally there in the archive.
<TheMuso> I haven't really had a good look I must say.
<lucas> librmagick-ruby is missing, for example
<TheMuso> Well perhaps the debian/ubuntu versions were the same, or something. I dunno. I was expecting a particular package to be there, and it wasn't, so unless something hsa really gone wrong somewhere, I expect that things are ok.
<TheMuso> You'd have to ask keybuk ok.
<TheMuso> s/ok/however/
<antinobody> Where do I look for non-kubuntu packages that need merging?  Or is there anywhere?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: there was a list on the mailing list
<Hobbsee> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/todolist.txt
<Hobbsee> i think
<lucas> my list includes both main and universe packages, so it might not be a good idea
<antinobody> Hobbsee: I remember that, but I wondered if there wasn't something on launchpad
<Hobbsee> ah ok
<Hobbsee> there migth be
* Hobbsee doesnt know
<lucas> if you are interested in a specific subset of packages, you could use multidistrotools to generate something such as http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ruby-packages.html
* TheMuso checks that URL for the package he was looking to merge.
<antinobody> lucas one problem is knowing which one's are done?
<TheMuso> Is edgy safe to dist-upgrade to yet?
<lucas> well, you are probably supposed to file a bug
<lucas> TheMuso: no
<lucas> TheMuso: use a chroot
<TheMuso> Thats what I am thinking. Thanks.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: upgrade anyway :P
<crimsun> TheMuso: yes, it is. Well, save udev among others is broken.
* Hobbsee is tempted to
<crimsun> You might need a working udev.
<crimsun> I hear that's overrated, though.
<TheMuso> Meh. Will go with chroot then. I set asside partitions for this very reason.
<Hobbsee> hmm.
<antinobody> I've been using it for a while, actually
* Mithrandir waves
<crimsun> 'lo mith
<TheMuso> Hey Mithrandir.
<antinobody> Then again, I probably wouldn't know if the thing was broken or not
<antinobody> hola Mithrandir
<lucas> probably is, it's probably quite ok to dist-upgrade to edgy now, but it might not be in the next days :-)
* TheMuso goes and grabs the edgy debootstrap package.
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir!
<Hobbsee> lucas: what in particular is happening in the next few days?
<lucas> Hobbsee: people start merging stuff
<antinobody> Oh, I'm sure I won't break ALL the packages I merge
<Hobbsee> lucas: true, i was thinking in terms of major breakage, although i guess that counts
<Hobbsee> hehe
* antinobody start's reading "Abortion and Infanticide" for his seminar class
* antinobody looks forward to reading ethical philosophy on abortion, because it's so clearcut and easy to make sense of
<antinobody> Why do I punish myself with these classes?
<crimsun> so you can appreciate the clarity of blaming yourself for coding incorrectly.
<crimsun> coding complexity pales in comparison to human complexity.
<antinobody> crimsun: you make a bizarre kind of sense
<crimsun> everything's bizarre at quarter past three in the morning.
<crimsun> alright, I'm starting my merges with 'z' and working backward.
<antinobody> it's also bizarre at quarter past 12 in the morning, on the other side of the country
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure these merges are for main only.
<crimsun> oh wait, no
<crimsun> here are some universe ones in 'n'.
<crimsun> nope, these are main.
<TheMuso> crimsun: I did see one package from universe in s.
<zakame> hi
<crimsun> hi zak
<zakame> hello crimsun
<zakame> so MoM has started
<tseng> yes, it has
<rob> have revu been fixed yet?
<aoneko> hello eveyone
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> morning sivang
<rob> hi
<jsgotangco> hi sivang!
<rob> so foolish me tried to upload again thinking revu was fixed..
<rob> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of dolphin_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<sivang> re rob , jsgotangco
<Kamion> could a member of ubuntu-dev please confirm #50995?
<Mez> malone 50995
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50995 in wide-dhcpv6 "Please sync wide-dhcpv6 (universe) from unstable" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50995
<Kamion> Toadstool: (sorry, but for hopefully obvious reasons we need confirmation of sync requests from somebody who could ordinarily upload the package in question)
<Mez> Toadstool, do you have access to REVU?
<Kamion> revu does sync reviews as well as merge reviews?
<Kamion> seems a bit pointless, you can just download the source package from Debian :)
<Mez> oh sorry -thought it was a merge :D
<Mez> I'll download and check it in a pbuilder :d
<Kamion> I don't give a damn about build checking, I want confirmation that all the existing Ubuntu patches have been applied
<Toadstool> hi Kamion, Mez
<Kamion> the buildds are perfectly good at finding out whether it builds :)
<Mez> Kamion, and that - dont worry - I know what I'm doing
<Mez> lol
<Kamion> personally I'd advise that you guys not overly waste time on pbuilder-checking syncs
<Mez> if I could get putty to work
<chuck> heylo
<Toadstool> Kamion: yeah, ok, I understand a motu has to check :)
<Toadstool> hi chuck
<sivang> Kamion: have you already synced the source?
<Kamion> sivang: no
<Kamion> I'm asking for confirmation from an ubuntu-dev member before syncing the source
<Mez> Kamion: looking at the changelog-  looks like the upload to ubuntu was just that - an upload... or the author wasnt very descriptive in his changelog
<sivang> Kamion: so the check needed is to see if upstream (debian) applied all our patches in?
<Kamion> sivang: yes
<sivang> Kamion: okay, I can do that if you give me some minutes :-)
<zul> Kamion: do you want me to sync grub and grub-installer tonight?
<Toadstool> Mez: i'm the packager and i didn't know about syncs when I first put this package on REVU
<Toadstool> that's why the changelog entry is so... useless :p
<Mez> I'll let sivang do it - I cant get putty working :(
<Kamion> zul: not grub-installer please
<Kamion> feel free to do grub though
<zul> Kamion: not a problem
* sivang fetches the edgy source and the sid source.
<sivang> hmm, searching on p.d.o takes ages
<sivang> screw it, I'll set up a debian chroot
<Toadstool> sivang: you can use packages.qa.debian.org too
<Kamion> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/wide-dhcpv6/
<Kamion> no need to search
<Toadstool> indeed
<AnAnt> is there something wrong with REVU today ?
<sivang> Kamion: ah, right , DoH
<AnAnt> I uploaded two programs there, but I don't see them on website
<sivang> Kamion: thanks
<Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, it seems that there's a problem with the uploads
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: ok, I was afraid that the problem is on my side
<sivang> Kamion: sid's version has extra 08_common.h-missing-macros.dpatch , other wise they are the same
<Toadstool> sivang: look at debian/patches/00list, this patch is disabled :)
<Toadstool> just kept it for history :p
<sivang> Toadstool: ah, doh, right :-)
<sivang> Kamion: so it's good to sync :)
<Kamion> sivang: ok, thanks
<Toadstool> thanks sivang :)
<Toadstool> and Kamion :)
<sivang> Toadstool: my pleasure :)
* sivang notes this took a while since he got a phone call at the middle.
<Toadstool> heh
<sivang> ;-)
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: ping , I've compiled SLIM , but need some help can I pm you?
<Toadstool> neenaoffline: quickly, yes, I'll have to leave in a few minutes
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: pm'ed you !?!
<neenaoffline> Toadstool: Thanks :)
<jenda> Where can one access the repos through html - if possible at all?
<Hobbsee> jenda: packages.ubuntu.com
<jenda> thanks :)
<Riddell> who wants to play the name to face game?!
<imbrandon> face game ?
<Riddell> only 6 gaps left
<Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/group-photo.txt
<Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/ubuntu-distro-summit-paris-group.jpg
* ajmitch plays
* Hobbsee wouldnt know.
<jsgotangco> lol
<imbrandon> heh i wouldent know any of them ;)
* TheMuso would be no help.
<jsgotangco> i think that's Troy Sobotka or something beside seb
* imbrandon cant even pick Riddell out of the crowd
<Hobbsee> ah ha!  i got some of them!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: top left :P
<Hobbsee> that's one of the few i could pick!
<imbrandon> hehe
<Riddell> ah, artwork Troy
<jsgotangco> the forum guy is Roald Hopman
<jsgotangco> beside BjornT is Frank Schoep i think
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> it is
<lifeless> the guy bside keybuk was teh anthropologist
<jsgotangco> this is a really nice group photo
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: indeed
<imbrandon> yea
<Hobbsee> and i'm not in it - awesome!
<imbrandon> lol @ Hobbsee
* Hobbsee breaks cameras.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: um... Why is that awesome?
<imbrandon> next release season ;)
<imbrandon> nah Hobbsee you just drive on the wrong side of the car ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: because i hate photos, and they always look like absolute *crap* with me in them!
<TheMuso> I don't believe that for one second.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it's so true, i usually end up with one really white eye.
<Hobbsee> so it looks a bit like i've only got one eye
<Hobbsee> or i get really bad red eye
<TheMuso> I'll take your word for it.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> p.d.o is SLOW
<TheMuso> Hey StevenK.
<Hobbsee> it's always slow
* StevenK waves.
<Hobbsee> hiya StevenK
<ajmitch> good evening StevenK
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> sup StevenK
* TheMuso knew that would happen.
* Hobbsee is splatted on the floor.  ouch.
<TheMuso> Do you two know each other in real life?
<StevenK> Ish
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<ajmitch> 'real life'?
<zul> Hobbsee: its because you always have red eye isnt it
<imbrandon> ajmitch probbably "in person" ;)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: not yet.
<TheMuso> Right.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: isn't irc 'in person'? :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch its about as much "in person" as talking to someone on the phone ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: well, that works too :P
<imbrandon> in person means "face to face" to me
<imbrandon> ;0
<Riddell> anyone know the bold guy between klaus and jim here?  http://bootsplash.org/_DSC8015.JPG
<Riddell> jsgotangco, lifeless ^^
<ajmitch> imbrandon: oh right
* ajmitch has met a few people here in person :)
<zul> and they ran away screaming
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> of course
<ajmitch> they never let me out of the country after that...
<jsgotangco> Riddell: sebastian heinlein (glatzor)
<zul> well they let you in australia for some reason
<jsgotangco> beside celso
<ajmitch> zul: fools..
<DanielC> What is the process for contributing your very first package to Ubuntu if you are just a regular guy like me?
<zul> upload to revu
<Riddell> thanks jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> revu
<DanielC> zul: Maybe I should talk to someone about what I want to contribute and find out if it's ok...
<ajmitch> DanielC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU being the info about REVU
<DanielC> *click*
<DanielC> Ok, so REVU is the method of getting comments on a proposed package...
<ajmitch> yes, it's somewhere that you can upload a package & we can view it
<ajmitch> and comment on it
<ajmitch> and then once approved, a MOTU uploads it
<DanielC> My idea is simple. There is a very good user guide for OpenOffice.org and I'd like a package that downloads it and puts it somewhere like /usr/share/doc
<DanielC> Would this be alright?
<ajmitch> is the user guide not redistributable by itself?
<DanielC> The license is GPL and Creative Commons By.
<DanielC> yes it is.
<DanielC> it's free as in freedom.
* tuxmaniac does not get the reason why User guides must be packaged!
<ajmitch> then it may be better to package the guide itself, rather than making an installer package
<DanielC> I just thought that having it available in synaptic would make more people find it.
<DanielC> e.g. if you search for "OpenOffice" you'd see it.
<ajmitch> sure
<tuxmaniac> DanielC> Ah. Ok.
<DanielC> :)
<DanielC> I could try to get fancy and add a menu entry to it somewhere. Either in OOo or the Gnome menus. How would the MOTUs feel about that?
<DanielC> Is it ok to fiddle with menus?
<jsgotangco> :)
<DanielC> I'll take this silence to mean that there is no straight answer to my question. :)
<shawarma> Is it possible to mess up a package so bad that it doesn't even show up on revu?
<DanielC> Are there any naming conventions I should observe?
<tuxmaniac> DanielC> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<ajmitch> shawarma: yep
<DanielC> *click*
<ajmitch> shawarma: what did you break?
<tuxmaniac> DanielC> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<DanielC> Thanks.
<shawarma> ajmitch: libgfshare. can you just remove it?
<ajmitch> shawarma: sure
<ajmitch> done
<shawarma> Excellent.
<shawarma> thanks
<DanielC> Would it be alright to call the package 'openoffice.org-guide' ?
<DanielC> That would make the package easier to find and its function obvious from the name.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jsgotangco> hey
<bddebian> Hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey
<DanielC> Do I need to install lintian and linda if I just want to make my own packages?
<DanielC> (to submit to universe)
<lifeless> you should install lintian
<DanielC> ok
<lifeless> IIRC that comes in with devscripts
<DanielC> It doesn't actually...
<DanielC> I ask because it has a lot of dependencies (most related to libxml).
<Hawkwind> So install libxml
<Hawkwind> It got installed here when I installed devscripts
<DanielC> It's not libxml, but several things related to it. I assume they are libraries built on top, or language bindings. But yes, I bit the bullet and installed it all.
<Mithrandir> if you're going to do package work you'll end up installing lots of stuff.  Just get over it.
<sivang> DanielC: if you're concerned about installed dependencies, you can always use a chroot for that
<DanielC> Thanks.
<DanielC> I don't actually mind installing stuff I need. It was really just a question.
<DanielC> What's a few megabytes for a modern hard disk?
<DanielC> :)
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: ping
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ping
<bddebian> Yo
<Hobbsee> bddebian: want to upload for me?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: you know you want to :P
<Toadstool> *silence*
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: not enough convincing :)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: you could, if you wanted :P
<Toadstool> yeah well if I was a motu I might consider it ;)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: you're not?
<bddebian> Toadstool: So, sign up :-)
<Hobbsee> haha
* Hobbsee is tempted to.  really tempted.
<Toadstool> bddebian: I'm planning to, just a few more packages in universe and I'll try
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> You can take my place.  I'm useless lately :'-(
<Toadstool> some wise devs told me only one package is not enough to check my packaging skills :p
<DanielC> Question: In the debian/control file, what is the code name for the section "Documentation (universe)" ?
<Toadstool> DanielC: doc
<DanielC> Thanks.
<Toadstool> :)
<Toadstool> bddebian: you're not that useless you know :)
<bddebian> Bah :-)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: haha, true
<Toadstool> grah... is REVU broken?
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: i think so, my upload isnt showing
<Toadstool> yeah, mine as well
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: well, i could call up ajmitch and yell at him, if he has his mobile on :P
<Toadstool> heh
<zul> yeeah i bet he would love that
<Hobbsee> could be fun to try though.
<zul> do it in a whiney voice, and then go is it done yet how about now
<bddebian> heh
<DanielC> In debian/control, is it alright to leave Depends: blank? The package in question is just a user guide, it doesn't depend on anything.
<bddebian> DanielC: Yes
<DanielC> Thanks.
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<bddebian> Gnight jsgotangco
<DanielC> In debian/copyright, in the Authors section, what if the package has 24 authors? Do I list them all? If so, is it a comma-separated list as one big line?
<azeem> it's mostly free-form I think
<DanielC> ok, can it span multiple lines?
<azeem> yeah, I think so
<DanielC> thanks
<DanielC> Names preceded by a space I guess?
<DanielC> Or you mean that the whole 'copyright' file is free form?
<azeem> DanielC: there's no mandated form, but most people follow one, yes
<azeem> I am not sure where you want to put a space
<DanielC> Ok. So I'll just do something that looks very similar to the sample on the packaging guide.
<DanielC> This file doesn't require compilation. Can I just leave the "rules" file blank?  (i.e.  `touch debian/rules`).
<Laser_away> Hobbsee: pong?
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: do we have documentation somewhere on chroots, or how to check if a deb installs in a pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> i hear both are possible, but neither is documented terribly well, that i can see
<imbrandon> pbuilder login
<imbrandon> dpkg-query -l|grep <pkg>|grep ii
<Laser_away> Hobbsee: the packaging guide has a section on how to make a chroot
<Hobbsee> Laser_away: i couldnt find it, but okay
<imbrandon> hold on Hobbsee i got it bookmarked
<Laser_away> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html
<fbond> any news on status of REVU repairs?
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<Hobbsee> right, ok, thanks
<bddebian> Hmm, why would my pbuilder apt cache not be getting updated?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: try with override config?
<Hobbsee> or just delete it, then recreate
<bddebian> I always run update with override-config
<Hobbsee> weird
<bddebian> Isn't there some way inside of pbuilder login to save my changes on exit?
<zakame> pbuilder login --save-after-login?
<zakame> erm, inside, my bad
<bddebian> zakame: ?
<zakame> bddebian: well you'd do pbuilder login --save-after-login to get into the chroot, do stuff there, and exit, saving changes
<bddebian> Ah, thanks
<zakame> but since you said `inside of pbuilder', that's a bit more trickier
<zakame> (i.e., when you've done a pbuilder login already)
<bddebian> zakame: No, you hit what I meant :-)
<zakame> ah, that's good :)
<zakame> anyhow, gn8, I see none of my previously-merged pkgs are in MoM now :/
<bddebian> Doh
<bddebian> Gnight zakame
<bddebian> zakame: Oh, good, leaves you plenty of time to work on X then ;-P
<bddebian> OK, I am getting pissed off.  sudo pbuild-edgy login; apt-get update && apt-get install x11proto-gl-dev  works fine
<bddebian> sudo pbuild-edgy build foo.dsc which build-deps x11proto-gl-dev fails
<bddebian> WTF?
<zakame> log?
<bddebian> Of what, the build error?
<zakame> yeah
<bddebian> Building dependency tree... Done
<bddebian> E: Couldn't find package x11proto-gl-dev
<bddebian> W: Unable to locate package x11proto-gl-dev
<bddebian> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
<bddebian> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<zakame> hm weird
<bddebian> zakame: Aye, no kidding :-)
<bddebian> zakame: Any ideas?
<siretart> hi folks
<shawarma> The revu queue is still processed every 5 minutes, right?
<jpatrick> think so
<shawarma> Can anyone see what's happening with my upload of libgfshare?
<shawarma> Well, apart from "not much" :-)
<shawarma> hmm.. be back in an hour.. maybe something has happened by then. :-)
<siretart> shawarma: could you please join the launchpad group 'ubuntu-universe-contributors' and ping me again?
<siretart> hey rraphink
<bddebian> Hi siretart, rraphink
<siretart> huhu bddebian
<sivang> siretart: do you have to be in that team to be able to upload to REVU?
<rraphink> hi bddebian && siretart
<allee> bddebian: apt-get update does not run before a pbuild.  Try sudo pbuild-edgy login; apt-get install x11proto-gl-dev
<raphink> sivang: from now on, yes
<allee> hi raphink
<raphink> hi allee :)
<sivang> raphink: ah nice, using launchpad's auth server ?
<siretart> sivang: the plan is to implement 'real' launchpad authentication
<raphink> sivang: not yet, just using LP GPG keys
<sivang> ah...
<siretart> sivang: up to know, the keyring (and only the keyring) is synced from the launchpad group
<sivang> siretart: and before it was just done manually?
<siretart> sivang: yepp
<raphink> yes sivang
<sivang> I see
<raphink> we would add each key manually
<sivang> nice, so this is not just as the archive works
<sivang> as when someone is approved for ubuntu-dev, the archive tools automatically white least his GPG key
<sivang> (for upload)
<sivang> s/not//
<bddebian> allee: I know thanks but I ran sudo pbuilder update --override-config prior to the build attempt
<sivang> siretart: yes, it's probably a good plan to use LP's authentication for that sort of things
<Toadstool> re
<bddebian> wb Toadstool
<Toadstool> ah we have to join 'ubuntu-universe-contributors' to be able to upload to REVU now?
<Toadstool> nice
<raphink> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey raphink
<Laser_away> siretart: ping?
<LaserJock> brb
<siretart> laserJock: pong
<shawarma> Anyone care to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2521 (libgfshare) ?
<LaserJock> siretart: unping, sorry
<slomo_> shawarma: hm, isn't this library by Kinnison? i wonder why he didn't package it himself yet :)
<shawarma> slomo_: Yes, it is. He didn't even want the /debian dir in his bzr repository. :-)
<slomo_> shawarma: i wouldn't want it to be there too :P any idea why doesn't he want to package it?
<shawarma> slomo_: Nope.
<shawarma> slomo_: He DOES know that I'm uploading it.
<slomo_> ok... i'll take a look at it then :)
<slomo_> shawarma: don't install lib*.so.* in the -dev package... only in the runtime one
<slomo_> shawarma: i would also recommend to use debhelper compat level 5 (and b-d on debhelper (>= 5)) and don't shipping the .la file
<shawarma> slomo_: Hmm... I wonder why lintian doesn't bitch about that.
<slomo_> on the .deb packages it probably does ;)
<shawarma> slomo_: Nope.
<shawarma> slomo_: Quiet as a grave.
<slomo_> weird
<shawarma> slomo_: But -dev is just .a and the headers?
<slomo_> and the .so link
<slomo_> (and .la if you want to ship it)
<shawarma> but that's not the usual procedure?
<shawarma> shipping the .la, that is.
<slomo_> they caused problems in the past and now everybody wants to drop them if possible
<shawarma> slomo_: Ok.
<shawarma> slomo_: Why up the dependency on debhelper? It works fine with less, so why put stricter dependencies on it?
<slomo_> libgfshare-dev should also depend on libc6-dev
<shawarma> slomo_: "debhelper compat level" means debian/compat, right?
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> and if you raise that you need to raise the required debhelper version too
<shawarma> slomo_: Ah. good point.
<shawarma> slomo_: Shouldn't the libc6-dev dependency be added automatically by something? Like dh_shlibdeps or something?
<slomo_> and update Standards-Version to 3.7.2
<slomo_> no you have to add it yourself
<slomo_> dh_shlibdeps only adds dependencies on shared libraries
<shawarma> Hmm... We should really fix dh_make to set these things correctly.
<shawarma> slomo_: Ah. Yeah, that makes sense
<slomo_> hm and i remember that your name was written with  instead of o ;)
<bddebian> OK, I have determined that cdbs sucks :-)
<slomo_> other than the package is fine
<slomo_> bddebian: why? ;)
<bddebian> slomo_: Too much "magic", I can't tell wtf it's doing :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: have you read the pertanent .mk files?
<slomo_> shawarma: ping me when you uploaded an updated version :)
<Toadstool> bddebian: it's not that much "magic" when you've read some of the files in /usr/share/cdbs ;)
<shawarma> slomo_: Sure. Thanks!
<LaserJock> shawarma: take a penalty card and say that you are doing so ;-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: LOL!
* shawarma takes a penalty card
<shawarma> slomo_: changelog is in utf-8?
<slomo_> yes
<slomo_> but it must be the same as in your gpg key id
<LaserJock> I'm starting to see a relationship between mao and packaging
<slomo_> so if you have o there don't change it or make a new uid ;)
<slomo_> LaserJock: now you know why everybody was playing mao ;)
<shawarma> slomo_: Good point.
<bddebian> Toadstool: Well I read LaserJock's document and that didn't help :-)
<LaserJock> doesn't suprise me
<LaserJock> I don't know anything about CDBS really
<LaserJock> well, I know the concept, I just have never needed to use it
<shawarma> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2521&upid2=2522
<slomo_> shawarma: ok, advocated :)
<shawarma> slomo_: Cool. Thanks!
* LaserJock can't remember his REVU login info
<sivang> shawarma: does Kinnison know you are using cdbs for that? :)
<_ion> There should be a standard for HTTP authentication by signing a challenge string with your PGP key. Of course browsers would present the whole thing to the luser with a neat, simple UI.
<shawarma> sivang: I've told. Maybe he wasn't listening. :-)
<shawarma> sivang: Is he not fond of it?
<sivang> shawarma: IIRC, to say the lesat of it :-D
<shawarma> sivang: Well... Sucks to be him then. :-)
<shawarma> sivang: Maybe that's why he was alright with me maintaining it in Ubuntu. :-)
<_ion> cdbs sucks, it makes things too easy and maintainable. debhelper sucks, it makes things too easy and maintainable. Oh, and we shouldn't be using file systems either, they make things too easy.
<bddebian> huh?
<_ion> Just joking.
<_ion> While being very tired, i might add. :-)
<shawarma> _ion: IIRC, you are free to define your own authentication methods in http.
<_ion> shawarma: I'd like to stress the word "standard". Let's say i define such an authentication method. No browser is going to support it, and neither are the popular webapp frameworks.
<_ion> Such a thing should come from W3C or something. :-)
<shawarma> _ion: You could propose it. :-)
<shawarma> _ion: it doesn't differ a lot from client certificates, though.
<_ion> The existing PGP infrastructure (keyservers, web of trust) could be used for many cool things. I'd like to see a PGP-based solution instead of one using SSL certs.
<_ion> "Note: As of NCSA HTTPd 1.4.1, support for PEM/PGP encryption was removed in order to bring NCSA in compliance with the Internation Treaty on Arms Reduction to which the United States of America is a signatory. We hope to have an improved version available with NCSA HTTPd 1.5 from an export controlled server."  <http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/docs/PEMPGP.html>, dated 1995-09-08
<Toadstool> 'night everybody
<_ion> 'ght
* bddebian hugs dholbach
<paniq> errrch.
<paniq> ubuntu desktop requires libglib2.0-0 2.10.3, but libglib2.0-dev wants 2.10.2
<paniq> and a few more
<paniq> oh no.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hey LaserJock, have you seen this site?  http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-29
<LaserJock> bddebian: hmm, no
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> I like how there are lots of little sites with Debian packages that nobody bother's to put in the archives
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> They built scilab with debhelper :-(
<LaserJock> at least they are sane ;-)
<bddebian> Heh :-)
<bddebian> Oh well gotta head home, talk to you all later
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<crimsun> oh god, eye-stabbity sound fun
* crimsun gets some coffee and prepares to get dirty
<theCore> is it possible to get mplayer source package?
<crimsun> do you mean upstream upstream or the version we use?
<crimsun> the former is at www.mplayerhq.hu; the latter is ``apt-get source mplayer''
<theCore> well, I just need the debian/ folder
<theCore> apt-get source doesn't work with mplayer
<crimsun> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/multiverse/m/mplayer/mplayer_0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu8.diff.gz
<crimsun> yes it does.
<crimsun> do you have the deb-src line for multiverse?
<theCore> Hmm... maybe not
* theCore hides
<theCore> deb-src for multiverse was missing
<theCore> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> np
<nexu> is it save to dist-upgrade to edgy for dbus atm?
<crimsun> I wouldn't.
<crimsun> you /may/ be able to get away with using it in a chroot
<nexu> so how about just using the dbus 0.62 from edgy in dapper?
<ajmitch> morning
<crimsun> 'morning ajmitch
<crimsun> nexu: you have rope, of course you can hang yourself
<crimsun> nexu: why is 0.62 critical?
<nexu> crimsun: x_X
<nexu> crimsun: dev testing
<nexu> crimsun: no its not critical
<crimsun> nexu: then use edgy in a chroot
<nexu> k
<nexu> or i might go copmile dbus 0.62 myself ...
<crimsun> sure, you're free to do whatever
<nexu> just asking :>
<nexu> yeah wait, i'll brb..gonna jump off a flat
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi zul
<ajmitch> morning jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> good morning ajmitch
<zul> hey ajmitch how is the land down under?
<jsgotangco> heh
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:crimsun] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) | http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) | [Edgy MoM]  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<ajmitch> so much work...
<zul> quit complaining ;)
<zul> hehehe...someone said merge
<crimsun> probably not a good idea to use edgy's sudo
<ajmitch> how broken is it today?
<crimsun> bug 51246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51246 in sudo "1.6.8p12-4ubuntu1 update causes parse errors" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51246
<ajmitch> a good thing I enable root on my systems
<TheMuso> there is a newer version.
<TheMuso> (edgy)luke@marlon:~/Projects/Ubuntu_Development/edgy/sources/speech-dispatcher$
<TheMuso> apt-cache show sudo | grep Version
<TheMuso> Version: 1.6.8p12-1ubuntu6
<TheMuso> No sorry, that is an older one.
<TheMuso> thanks for the heads up.
<LaserJock> hmm, this is interesting. Anybody know how to remove lines from a file without reading the whole thing?
<zul> sed
<Kyral> grep :P
<LaserJock> don't you still have to read the whole file?
<crimsun> your question is phrased a bit strangely
<Kyral> quickest way to nuke blank lines is....
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorry
<Kyral> grep -v ^$ <file>
<LaserJock> got an email from my local LUG, a guy has a 2.3 GB file that he wants to remove the first 300 lines of
<Kyral> yikes
<LaserJock> so he wants to remove the lines without having to deal with the rest of the file
<azeem> that's possible with either head or tail I think
<Kyral> how many lines?
<Kyral> total?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> lots I'm guessing
<azeem> hrm
<Kyral> well, you can do it with tail
<Kyral> but you need to know the number of lines
<azeem> that would write out everything, no?
<truz_`24> run wc on it :-)
<Kyral> tail -n (number of lines infile - 300) >> newfile
<Kyral> wait
<LaserJock> the first thing he tried was sed '1,300d'
<azeem> I think he wants to evade the "newfile"
<Kyral> tail -n (number of lines in file - 300) filename  > filename
<Kyral> there you go
<crimsun> ick
<truz_`24> isn't that going to read the file into memory?
<crimsun> tail +301 foo
<azeem> Kyral: that still writes stuff, no?
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> well, TECHNICALLY
<Kyral> but it clobbers the file with itself :P
<Kyral> > clobbers whatever the target is, >> appends :P
<azeem> well, "write stuff" as in shove 2GB in memory and later back on disk
<truz_`24> so how can u move the file pointer 300 lines down?
<Kyral> dunno
<Kyral> oh I KNOW!
<truz_`24> I know you can do it with a c program
<Kyral> vim <file>
<crimsun> you don't need wc, just use tail by itself
<truz_`24> so there has to be a *nix utility to do it
<Kyral> then in vim
<azeem> Kyral: dude
<Kyral> 300dd :P
<azeem> I think a small C program should be easiest
<Kyral> you'd still need to load it into memory doncha?
<truz_`24> no
<azeem> Kyral: no
<truz_`24> You just move the file pointer down
<Kyral> heh, been a while since I messed with C++ File I/O
<Kyral> and I was never good at it in the first place
<Kyral> Ruby FTW :P
<zul> LaserJock: you could use perl :)
<LaserJock> somebody suggested:
<LaserJock> BYTES=$(head -300 nameofbigfile.txt | wc -c)
<LaserJock> dd if=nameofbigfile.txt of=truncatedversion.pl ibs=$BYTES  skip=1
<bmonty> has anyone decided the process for requesting syncs?  open a bug and subscribe the archive team?
<crimsun> that's what I've been doing, and the ones I've opened have been processed within a couple hours of my filing them
<bmonty> are you addind build logs and such or just requesting the sync?
<crimsun> I've titled all mine: "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync foobar version-# from Debian Sid"
<crimsun> in the bug report I've linked to REPORT and underneath it said "Ok to override Ubuntu change{,s}"
<bmonty> ok, thanks crimsun
<crimsun> I keep a browser tab open to the june '06 edgy-changes, and it refreshes every 3 minutes
<bmonty> what is the URL for that?
<crimsun> that way I can Find before I ../grab-merge.sh
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-June/thread.html
<zul> crimsun: how does that script work...
<crimsun> zul: grab-merge.sh basically wgets
<zul> yeah i know that part but what arguments does it take?
<crimsun> source package name
<zul> ah ok...so something like grab-merge.sh abuse-sdl right?
<bmonty> zul: yup, except I'm working that one ;)
<zul> bmonty: er that was an example
<bmonty> zul: ok, just wanted to make sure we don't duplicate any effort
<crimsun> yeah, bmonty and I have history of toe-stomping ;)
<bmonty> crimsun: :)
<bmonty> for the record I'm going to work the package that have my name next to them in the universe list
<crimsun> yeah, that's what I'm doing
<zul> good idea
<crimsun> (except I'm taking bzflag atm)
<TheMuso> What does one do with the changelog if the only conflicting files are config.sub and config.guess?
<TheMuso> Do we change the MOM entry to one of our own?
<bmonty> TheMuso: request a sync
<bmonty> you would want to override the ubuntu package with the version from debian
<TheMuso> Ah but the package I am working on has ubuntu-specific changes. A sync is not the right thing to do in this instance.
<TheMuso> But the only conflicts are those I mentioned.
<bmonty> get the latest debian version, add the ubuntu changes, include the ubuntu changelog entries in the new version
<bmonty> and the changelog entry could be something like "Resynchronize with Debian."
<bmonty> changelog entry for the new version that is
<TheMuso> Ok.
<LaserJock> TheMuso: but make sure to include old Ubuntu changelog entries
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah I know. Mom has done all of that for me, except the config.* changes, which are moot anyway.
<bmonty> hmmm...I wonder if MoM could be configured to ignore bootstrap files?
<bmonty> doh, I just made a mistake :(
<bmonty> forgot to use the -v option on dpkg-genchanges
<LaserJock> doh
<crimsun> hmm, you're not using the merge-genchanges?
<crimsun> (I don't, but I pass its contents to debuild)
<bmonty> I'm not using merge-genchanges...where do I get it?
<crimsun> it'll be in ../
<crimsun> that is, one level above the extracted source
<bmonty> ok, I see it
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi bmonty
<zul> TheMuso: ping
<TheMuso> hmm ok. Looks like the grab-merge.sh script can't handle versions with a : in them.
<TheMuso> zul: pong
<zul> TheMuso: new grub has beep support
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> Grub 2 you mean?
<zul> nope grub1
<zul> er...for edgy
<bmonty> TheMuso: yeah, I had the problem also
<crimsun> looks like it just needs to be escaped
<crimsun> just ping keybuk about it tomorrow
<ajmitch> I guess I should do some merges before bddebian does them all
<bddebian> pfft
<crimsun> love finding merge candidates that are really syncable
<bddebian> If there is install/foo:: in a cdbs rules, is that just for $package foo?
<bddebian> I still don't understand how the hell scilab-3.0 builds and 4.0 seems to install completely differently
<bmonty> this control file is totally screwed
<bmonty> package A depends on package B, and package B has it on the conflicts line and conflicts itself
<crimsun> the conflicts aren't versioned?
<bmonty> nope
<crimsun> bddebian: yes, just for foo
<bddebian> bmonty: Nice
<bddebian> crimsun: Then how the f**k is scilab-3.0 building
* bddebian is getting very confused
<crimsun> that's usually a sign to move on to another package and come back to it after a space
<bmonty> is it policy for a package with python2.3-foo and python2.4-foo to conflict each other
<bddebian> crimsun: If that is the case then cdbs will build in debian/foo/ right?
<crimsun> bddebian: given an adequately high dh_compat, yes
<bddebian> 4?
<crimsun> yes, it should
<bddebian> Then why the hell do the .install files look like this: ?
<bddebian> debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/X11_defaults/
<bddebian> debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/config/
<bddebian> debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/contrib/
<bddebian> Of course now that I look at it, I'm not quite sure why it's broken into three binaries anyway
<crimsun> the install files be broke
<crimsun> anyhoo
<crimsun> back in 90 mins
<Hawkwind> crimsun: We're timing you, not a minute late you hear!
<Hawkwind> Heh
<shawarma> If anyone would care to take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2524 it would be much appreciated.
<ogra> shawarma, hey its nearly 4:30 what are you still doing here ?
<jsgotangco> same for you ogra :P
<ogra> :P
<ogra> i have an excuse, i had a meeting with debian ltsp :P
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> no, actually i was planning to be in bed 2h ago :)
<jsgotangco> sounds like it went well...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> shawarma, at a first glance through my tired eyes the packaging looks fien
<ogra> *fine too
<bddebian> Fuuuuck
<zul> no thanks
<bddebian> Ah Mr. Knowitall, you want to help me with this? :0)
<shawarma> ogra: I've got another exam tomorrow that I'm trying to prepare for.
<shawarma> ogra: Somehow packaging random software seems more appealing. :-)
<shawarma> ogra: For some odd reason I never manage to get any sleep before any of my exams. I always stay up *all* night preparing for them.
<bmonty> good night everyone
<shawarma> bmonty: G'night.
<chillywilly> anyone know how I can have a certain script/command executed when I power up a laptop that was hibernated via gnome-power-manager?
<imbrandon> chillywilly, might have better luck asking in #ubuntu ( as this is the packagers chan )
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<rob> when using pbuilder I'm getting the following error: I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd
<rob> and ideas?
<crimsun> happens periodically, just retry
<rob> I have been for the last 8 hours or so
<crimsun> does it load for you in a Web browser? (it does here)
<rob> yes
<crimsun> hmm.
<crimsun> you might be able to get away with using --nonet
<crimsun> that is, presuming you have docbook as a build-dep
<crimsun> hmm
<rob> docbook2x, yeah
<crimsun> ah, you may need docbook-xml then
<crimsun> since docbook-xml is only a Recommends for docbook2x
<rob> hmm, never needed it before
<crimsun> I dunno beyond that, sorry
* rob tries it
<AnAnt> lionelp: u there ?
<lionelp> yep
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks for your comments on vim
<lionelp> oh, you're welcome :)
<AnAnt> lionelp: I need to understand few stuff though
<AnAnt> lionelp: where can I get the release that's in edgy ? (I did enable dapper-backports)
<lionelp> search vim on http://package.ubuntu.com with edgy release
<AnAnt> lionelp: does that mean that I have to do update in pbuilder ? as I am always building for dapper
<lionelp> you will find it
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> that edgy release won't work for dapper I guess, right ?
<crimsun> different toolchain. It may not work.
<AnAnt> ic
<AnAnt> crimsun: errr, that answer was for which question ?
<crimsun>  < AnAnt> that edgy release won't work for dapper I guess, right ?
<AnAnt> crimsun: ok, thanks
<AnAnt> lionelp: you said "release should be set to edgy, not expermental". does that mean that I have to do update in pbuilder ? as I am always building for dapper
<AnAnt> lionelp: btw, I left that 'release' as is from the Debian repos
<lionelp> If you plan to build package for REVU, you should update you pbuilder to dapper yes
<lionelp> AnAnt: I understand, but we are talking for packages in Ubuntu, not Debian. So we use Ubuntu release, not Debian
<AnAnt> lionelp: you mean update to edgy ?
<dsas> Don't you want an edgy pbuilder?
<lionelp> your pbuilder yes
<lionelp> not necessary your complete machine
<AnAnt> lionelp: what if I left pbuilder at dapper (ie. didn't update it to edgy), that won't be correct ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: the thing is I build packages so that they would also work for my dapper
<lionelp> you can build your package for dapper ever if your changelog is for edgy
<lionelp> but that alose means that you will not do a complete check
<lionelp> also
<AnAnt> ic
<lionelp> you can have several pbuilder
<AnAnt> lionelp: let me make sure I understand correctly. So I don't have to update my pbuilder to edgy, but in the changelog I should put the word edgy instead of 'unstable' or 'experimental', right ?
<lionelp> right
<lionelp> in that case, your source package will be correct
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<AnAnt> lionelp: should I put ubuntuX in  version the release ? or that does not matter ?
<lionelp> you mean the package version number or the Ubuntu release ?
<AnAnt> huh?
<lionelp> for ubuntu release in changelog, you only use codename ("dapper", "edgy")
<AnAnt> like ubuntu0 or ubuntu1 , in version yes
<AnAnt> is that a must or optional?
<lionelp> it is a must as it is a build for Ubuntu
<AnAnt> k
<lionelp> you should add "ubuntu1" at the end of the Debian package rebuild
<lionelp> (and if you do another package version ubuntu2, etc.)
<AnAnt> btw, I thought REVU was for both Ubuntu & Debian, or am I wrong ?
<lionelp> no, it is only for Ubuntu
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks a lot
<AnAnt> was there a problem with REVU yesterday ?
<AnAnt> nothing that I uploaded yesterday is there
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: you need to be a part of the REVU maintainer group to be able to upload
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: well I am I guess, because I did upload stuff before
<lionelp> AnAnt: it is quite new
<AnAnt> lionelp: new ?
<lionelp> before, you did not have to be a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors to upload in revu
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> new system
<Hobbsee> anyone know what libhamlib-dev got replaced by?
<AnAnt> so, how to be member?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: join it, and wait for approval
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<crimsun> Hobbsee: hamlib-dev ?
<AnAnt> now, I am mixed up, what is this channel for & what is #launchpad for ?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: b-d is libhamlib-dev
<Hobbsee> crimsun: where does hamlib-dev exist?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: libhamlib-dev is only valid in Debian testing/unstable (and thus Ubuntu Edgy)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yes, so why cant my edgy pbuilder find it?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: libhamlib* actually replaces hamlib*
<crimsun> Hobbsee: because hamlib 1.2.5-6 hasn't been synced yet.
<Hobbsee> crimsun: right, so i just ignore this package until it has been synced?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: right
<lionelp> AnAnt: this channel is for contributing to the Universe repository of Ubuntu
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ...or file a sync request for hamlib
<crimsun> Hobbsee: which you shouldn't need to do, since it'll be synced automatically
<Hobbsee> yeah
<lionelp>  #launchpad is for talking of launchpad the collaborative tool that Ubuntu used to manage the distro
<AnAnt> oh
<lucas> somebody has a script to file a "request sync" bug ?
<sivang> morning all!
<Hobbsee> morning sivang!
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: ok, so I am now registered, I can upload using dput now ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: have they approved you yet?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: they ?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: Registration completed successfully
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: that's what I got
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: yes, but there's a difference between registration and approval
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: also I got that I am "not an active member of any Launchpad teams."
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: how do I know about approval ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: what's your launchpad page?
<AnAnt> https://launchpad.net/people/aelmahmoudy
<Hobbsee> raphink: ping?
<raphink> pong?
<raphink> what's wrong?
<AnAnt> that rhymes
<raphink> hehe
<anibal> crimsun: ping
<Hobbsee> raphink: can AnAnt get approval to the REVU group?
<raphink> haven't seen a request
<Hobbsee> raphink: apparently he just joined
<raphink> havent received anything
<raphink> let me have a look
<anibal> raphink: could you please review my first ubuntu package?
<raphink> anibal: haven't got time for that now
<raphink> AnAnt: please request addition to the group, then i'll approve you
<AnAnt> raphink: where's that ?
<raphink> AnAnt: add a GnuPG key to your LP account prior to do that, too
* StevenK wonders where MoM lives now.
<TheMuso> What is the revu launchpad team for?
<raphink> AnAnt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<raphink> TheMuso: getting upload rights to REVU
<AnAnt> ic
<TheMuso> Um ok. I thought that wasn't needed.
<anibal> raphink: what do I need to get into REVU?
<Hobbsee> anibal: get approval to join https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members
<nexu> get the page about how to join REVU basically
<raphink> anibal: same question as AnAnt, same answer : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<nexu> get to read*
<raphink> so I don't feel like I write doc for nothing ;)
* nexu read them
<nexu> :)
<AnAnt> I did join REVU long time ago
<AnAnt> but it seems that system changed or so
<raphink> AnAnt: it changed last week
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> REVU is heading towards LP integration
<Hobbsee> raphink: that's got nothing about the recent launchpad team that you have to be added to, to upload, that i can see
<Hobbsee> raphink: (thank goodness for that!)
<raphink> Hobbsee: I'm not sure to understand your sentence
<raphink> but if I understood it, my answer is : "you don't need to be added to the team if you're already on REVU"
<raphink> but new REVU uploaders need to
<rob> I'm on both :)
<Hobbsee> raphink: now you have to join the group at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members to upload - that doenst seem to be in that revu page
<AnAnt> raphink: ok, I requested to join universe team now
<raphink> Hobbsee: I updated the page though :s
<AnAnt> and imported my gpg key in launchpad too
<raphink> Hobbsee: please read the page again, carefuly ;)
<Hobbsee> raphink: can you give me a section of text you're referring to - i cant see it
<raphink> It is not necessary to GetYourKeySigned, but it is a good idea anyway. In order to upload to REVU, you will need to be added to the REVU keyring. Be sure that you have a [WWW]  Launchpad account and that you have added your GPGKey to it. Then ask to [WWW]  be added to the Ubuntu Universe Contributors team. One of the REVU admins will add you then to the group (== Upload rights for REVU). You don't need a password to upload packages, only to log 
<raphink> .
<Hobbsee> raphink: ah right
<raphink> I fixed it last week
<raphink> :p
<raphink> ok added new members
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) | http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) | [Edgy MoM]  https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<AnAnt> raphink: thanks, so now I can use dput as I used to do before ?
<ajmitch> raphink: ran revu-key update on tiber?
<ajmitch> it takes a little while
<raphink> ajmitch_: it's running right now
<raphink> yes it takes some time
* ajmitch didn't want to run it while you were doing so :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> update done
<AnAnt> ok, I have a question, when I make a new version of a software, it doesn't create a .orig tarball, is that correct ?
<ajmitch_> hi \sh
<AnAnt> hmmm, didn't upload still ?!
<dsas> AnAnt: I believe that the upstream .orig file shouldn't have changed so there's no need for a new one.
<AnAnt> dsas: it did change, what I meant, is that it doesn't call the original tarball .orig
<AnAnt> dsas: it called it freedict_1.4-1ubuntu0.tar.gz
<ajmitch> AnAnt: it shouldn't be creating a tarball at all
<AnAnt> without .orig
<ajmitch> you must make the .orig.tar.gz by renaming the upstream tarball
<sivang> hey \sh
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee> welcome back ajmitch
<ajmitch> for a few minutes, at least
<AnAnt> ajmitch: ok, the thing is this, there was freedict-1.3, I added another dictionary to it, hence I thought I would bump the version to 1.4, is that ok so far ?
<AnAnt> ajmitch: hence, I renamed the source directory to freedict-1.4
* StevenK wonders how one takes ownership of a merge/sync.
<StevenK> File a bug in LP, as per usual?
<AnAnt> ok, fixed it
<AnAnt> btw, I still can't upload anything
<AnAnt> although I am now a contributor in universe
<AnAnt> dput doesn't give me a problem
<StevenK> Are people grabbing onto merges/syncs?
<tseng> yes
<tseng> grab some
<StevenK> How are we declaring ownership?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o rjls]  by ChanServ
<AnAnt> btw, I still can't upload anything, although I am now a contributor in ubuntu universe. Although dput is not giving any errors, but I see nothing that I have uploaded today on REVU. Can anyone help ?
<ajmitch> what have you uploaded, and with what version?
<AnAnt> bitlbee-1.0.3
<AnAnt> what u mean, what version ?
<ajmitch> the exact version
<ajmitch> as given in debian/changelog
<AnAnt> bitlbee (1.0.3-1ubuntu0) edgy
<Amaranth> err
<Amaranth> should be 1.0.3-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> and you didn't put your gpg key on launchpad
<ajmitch> so there's nothing for the keyring update script to grab
<AnAnt> why ubuntu1 ?
<AnAnt> ajmitch: I did
<AnAnt> oh, that was a ssh key
<ajmitch> AnAnt: it's not listed on your launchpad page
<AnAnt> sorry
<AnAnt> what is the keyserver ?
<ajmitch> just use the openpgpkeys link on the left
<ajmitch> the key should be on any of the common keyservers
<AnAnt> oh ok, done
<AnAnt> waiting for the email, thanks
<AnAnt> ok, I put my PGP key, and tried to upload again, now dput gives me error 553
<ajmitch> because the files are already there
<ajmitch> and the key isn't synced across yet
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> ajmitch: umm, how do I know if it is synced or not
<ajmitch> you would have had to ask one of us
<AnAnt> ajmitch: you mean, that after the key is synced, the files I uploaded (before putting the key) will be on REVU ?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well
<ajmitch> the files are still there
<ajmitch> I'll remove them, and you can upload again
<ajmitch> btw, you should not change the upstream version of freedict just because you made a change to it, unless you are upstream yourself
<AnAnt> oic
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> I did issue dcut command
<ajmitch> that's like adding a patch to firefox & calling it firefox 1.6
<ajmitch> dcut doesn't work for revu
<AnAnt> oh
<zul> hey
<ajmitch> hi zul
<zul> hey ajmitch how goes it?
<ajmitch> alright, you?
<zul> good just having breakfast
<yvesC> hi.
<yvesC> I would see pysycache in universe. http://pysycache.org/ . It's software for 3-6 kids, mouse-based amusement.
<yvesC> pygame based.
<AnAnt> ajmitch: thanks, I am uploading now
<AnAnt> ajmitch: as for freedict, when I add the new dictionary, I get this problem in dpkg-buildpackage  "dpkg-source: cannot represent change to ara-eng-20041030.tar.gz: binary file contents changed"
<ajmitch> which is why you can't add in binary files like that, but have to do workarounds like with uuencode, etc
* StevenK waves.
<AnAnt> oh
<StevenK> Wahh.
<StevenK> It's been that long since I merged and synced that I've lost all my clues.
<TheMuso> StevenK: yeah. if you are out of the loop for even a couple of weeks, it can sometimes take a while to catch up.
<ajmitch> hi StevenK
<Gloubiboulga> Hello MOTU world
<TheMuso> Hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hello TheMuso :)
* StevenK ponders how to debug a failing test in a build.
<StevenK> While watching xemacs21 build.
<StevenK> My poor amd64. xemacs21 is a bitch to build.
<TheMuso> heh
<ajmitch> peddle faster!
<StevenK> I'm already peddling at 2.8GHz
<lfittl> siretart: ping
<siretart> lfittl: yes?
<ajmitch> hi siretart
<lfittl> siretart: could you approve my membership for the ubuntu-universe-contributors team, so I can upload to revu again?
* ajmitch approved
<ajmitch> siretart: I'll sync keys again
<lfittl> ajmitch: thanks :)
<ajmitch> since it was still in the history of another shell
<Gloubiboulga> is there an edgy chroot on tiber?
<Gloubiboulga> edgy pbuilder*
<raphink> not yet I think
<Gloubiboulga> thanks raphink, et salut ;)
<raphink> non y'a pas je confirme
<raphink> il faudrait en faire un
<\sh> salut:)
<Gloubiboulga> guten tag \sh
<raphink> hi \h
<\sh> ok...let's wait until 800GB are formatted with ext3 *boring*
<\sh> just FA Installing an ubuntu 6.06 server :)
<Hobbsee> hi \sh
<Hobbsee> & raphink & Gloubiboulga
<\sh> huhu raphink, Gloubiboulga, Hobbsee, and all the rest of the motu crew :=)
<Gloubiboulga> hello Hobbsee
<raphink> )
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee splats on the ground.
* ogra brings a shovel
<Hobbsee> thanks ogra
* Hobbsee is shoveled into a little ball of hobbsee goo.
<ogra> heh
* Mithrandir shakes Hobbsee a little so she gets back her usual form. ;-P
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee remains as hobbsee goo.
<ajmitch> hm, hobbsee jam
<Hobbsee> hehh
<chipmonk010> im having some trouble uploading to revu is this the place to ask?
<AnAnt> chipmonk010: when was your last successful update ?
<chipmonk010> this is the first one
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: are you part of the REVU group in launchpad?  see the topic
<chipmonk010> yes was just added a few minutes ago
<chipmonk010> i tried uploading yesterday and the upload froze now im getting  Error '553 Could not create file.'
<chipmonk010> i tried using dcut to remove the partially uploaded file *.dsc but no luck
<ajmitch> because dcut can't be used on revu
<ajmitch> and you need to ask an admin
<Hobbsee> i think you'll probably need a revu admin to remove the partially uploaded .dsc file?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch is volunteering :P
* ajmitch sighs
<chipmonk010> lol
<StevenK> Oh, damn.
* StevenK wonders if dcut works for upload.u.c
<Hobbsee> you know you want to ajmitch
<ajmitch> I already did it
<Hobbsee> oh good
<TheMuso> Don't pressure the poor bloke, come on guys.
<StevenK> I ought to run merge-genchanges
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: :P  whyever not?
<chipmonk010> thanks guys
<TheMuso> Maybe because he might have other things to do?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: what, like sleep?
<Hobbsee> nah...it's not even midnight yet.
<Hobbsee> :P
<sivang> StevenK: merge-genchanges is part of dpkg?
<StevenK> sivang: No, MoM's grab-merge.sh generates it.
<ajmitch> StevenK: how bad was your upload of xemacs21?
<sivang> StevenK: hmm, I should finally go and read Scott's email about edgy MOM
<chipmonk010> oh before i upload again, my package is a fix for the mythv package already in the repos, is revu for new packages only?
<StevenK> ajmitch: I should have run merge-genchanges, and didn't.
<ajmitch> StevenK: which means?
<chillywilly> yo
<StevenK> ajmitch: The .changes file contained only my changes, not every change since the last version in edgy.
<TheMuso> So where are you guys putting your merged packages for those who aren't MOTUs yet?
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: no, you can upload there
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: revu
<TheMuso> ah ok
<ajmitch> StevenK: so that only matters for what's on the changes list
<ajmitch> it's not going to be a bad upload
<ajmitch> sure, some people will yell at you & all
<StevenK> Well, it's my first upload.
<StevenK> And I'm a pedantic bastard.
<chipmonk010> Hobbsee: ok cool thanks again
* TheMuso ponders getting a snack before the meeting...
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you've just got time
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<lfittl> could somebody review and upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2539 for me? (just a new upstream version, no new package)
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, I'm having a look
<lfittl> :)
<chipmonk010> i successfully uploaded a package to revu but i cant see it at http://revu.tauware.de/ nor can i recover my passwd does ne one know could i have to do something more the dput?
<lfittl> chipmonk010: the package takes approx. 5 min after your upload until it shows up
<chipmonk010> its been like 45mins still nothin
<lfittl> chipmonk010: then ask one of the revu admins about it
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: what's your login for launchpad?
<chipmonk010> Hobbsee: "chipmonk010"
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: join this team:  https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members
<Toadstool> re
<Hobbsee> heya Toadstool
<chipmonk010> Hobbsee: im already a member
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<lfittl> chipmonk010: is this your upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2541 ?
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: oh yeah.  sorry - thought it was sorted by alphabetical order
<chipmonk010> yes thats it! thanks
<lfittl> np ;)
<chipmonk010> Hobbsee: did u do something or did it just show up?
<Hobbsee> chipmonk010: i didnt do anything to it
<chipmonk010> Hobbsee: strange oh well thanks neway
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, some files are missing in you packages, but maybe it's an upstream problem (investigating)
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: which files do you mean?
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: I am also part of upstream, so I can fix this too
<Gloubiboulga> libloki.so.0 for example
<lfittl> what file should that be?
<Gloubiboulga> which should be a link to libloki.so.0.1.5
<lfittl> whats the reason to have this link?
<Gloubiboulga> it gives you the soname
<Gloubiboulga> 0
<lfittl> the soname is the full version, since every release changes the ABI
<Gloubiboulga> hmm
<sivang> shawarma: ping
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: what are the other files that you think are missing?
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, only this one actually
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: do you think there is something wrong about the soname?
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, not really _wrong_ but usually you find soname like .0 or .0.x, but I've never seen a so.0.1.5
<Gloubiboulga> actually, I've seen it once, but it's been changed :)
<Gloubiboulga> if the ABI changes in a new release, you just have to switch from .0 to .1, that's not a problem I guess
<Gloubiboulga> but I'm not good enough about that to tell you "that's the way it works"
<Gloubiboulga> maybe someone else could confirm (or not ;) )
<lfittl> then lets ask, anybody here who has enough experience with sonames to help us out?
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > objdump -x  /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7 | grep SON SONAME      libssl.so.0.9.7
<Mithrandir> bah
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > objdump -x  /usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.7 | grep SON
<Mithrandir>   SONAME      libssl.so.0.9.7
<Mithrandir> so they cerrtainly exist.
<Gloubiboulga> ok...
<Mithrandir> certainly, even
* Gloubiboulga shuts up now
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: could you upload it then? :)
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, yep, sorry for the noise
<Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian
<lfittl> no problem ;)
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga
<lfittl> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<Gloubiboulga> lfittl, thanks you ;)
<Gloubiboulga> s/thanks/thank
<DanielC> I'm thinking of making a package that would add a menu entry to OpenOffice.org (it'd add Help > User Guide). Are there any problems with changing OOo menus?
<DanielC> I mean... would it get rejected on that basis?
<Hobbsee> BOO!
<bddebian> ahh
<Birthday_Kaiser> lol.
* Hobbsee doesnt understand why teh fonts are quite so small.
<Birthday_Kaiser> they arnte very big :)
<Hobbsee> no, but why are the defaults so small?
<Hobbsee> i think someone needs to do some DPI work with edgy
<Birthday_Kaiser> some funny kde reason probalby :)
<Hobbsee> Birthday_Kaiser: this is gnome
<Birthday_Kaiser> Hobbsee, :o
<Birthday_Kaiser> its your comjpute :P
<Hobbsee> ;P
<Hobbsee> indeed
<Birthday_Kaiser> lol
<Hobbsee> this is a live cd
* Birthday_Kaiser huggles Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee huggles Birthday_Kaiser 
<Birthday_Kaiser> yay
* Birthday_Kaiser huggles bddebian 
* Hobbsee wants to configure xterm BLACK!
<Birthday_Kaiser> you dont have xterm :OP{
<Hobbsee> white on light grey does not work.
<Hobbsee> sure i do, that's what i'm chatting from
<Birthday_Kaiser> no, your using gnome-terminal
<Hobbsee> i started xterm specifically
* Birthday_Kaiser didnt think xterm was on the live cd
<Hobbsee> Birthday_Kaiser: seems to be,j ust hidden
<Birthday_Kaiser> Hobbsee, hehe. like the ohter 1200 apps ;)
<bddebian> Heya Birthday_Kaiser
* Hobbsee pokes and prods bddebian 
<Birthday_kgoetz> hey bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: ?
* Birthday_kgoetz just crashed....
<Hobbsee> bddebian: no apparent reason why
<Birthday_kgoetz> i keep crashing ;'(
<bddebian> Hobbsee: OK :)
<bddebian> Birthday_Kaiser: So is it your birthday?
<Birthday_kgoetz> bddebian: yep :) for 24 hours :)
<Birthday_kgoetz> bddebian: i'm 20 today :), the sad thjin is i have spend teh last 2 hours hugging  people online ;)
<bddebian> Egads, I could be your father :)
<bddebian> Birthday_kgoetz: Well happy birthday
<Birthday_kgoetz> thanks bddebian :)
<Birthday_kgoetz> omfg. the laptop crashed launching xchat :(
<Hobbsee> hey now, you *have* xchat, dont complain :P
<Birthday_kgoetz> lol
<Birthday_kgoetz> what do you think this is, some ubuntu default crap :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Birthday_kgoetz hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee hugs the invisbile person in return
<Birthday_kgoetz> yay for mandarines and beer
<Birthday_kgoetz> and Hobbsee :)O
<Birthday_kgoetz> imbrandon: !
<Hobbsee> hiya imbrandon
<Hobbsee> is imbrandon visible?  hmmm...
* Birthday_kgoetz needs to get his cloak fixed
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
<imbrandon> hey Birthday_kgoetz
<Hobbsee> indeed
<Birthday_kgoetz> hi imbrandon :)
<Hobbsee> ooh!  imbrandon is visible!
* Hobbsee kicks gnome
<Birthday_kgoetz> :(
<Hobbsee> why isnt there some form of ksnapshot equivalent?
<imbrandon> heh
<Birthday_kgoetz> ksnapshot?
<Birthday_kgoetz> printscreen?
* Kamping_Kaiser huggles Hobbsee  bddebian and imbrandon 
* Hobbsee huggles the invisible one
* Birthday_kgoetz sighs. crashed again.
* Birthday_kgoetz needs to get a new sytesm... stabilty is an isseu :(
<Hobbsee> bddebian: Kamping_Kaiser imbrandon http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6869/screenshot4su.png <-- why i'm having trouble.
* Birthday_kgoetz blames xgl 3rd party repo - my edgy sytem was more or less stable untill i turned on that 3rd party crap :(
<imbrandon> whats that irssi ?
<Birthday_kgoetz> whats the problem :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, in xterm, on a dapper livecd
<Hobbsee> Birthday_kgoetz: see the effects of white on light grey
<Birthday_kgoetz> hehe
<Hobbsee> and tiny text
<Hobbsee> it's not so bad blazingly bright, at the right angle.
<Hobbsee> but right now, i'ts unreadable
<imbrandon> umm thats just irssi config
<Birthday_kgoetz> in xterm your on your own, i can only help in gnome-term
<Birthday_kgoetz> :)
<Hobbsee> rock!  it'd be readable there!
<Hobbsee> anyway, i'm going to sleep
<imbrandon> gnight Hobbsee
<Birthday_kgoetz> shes gone :(
<Birthday_kgoetz> :'(
<fbond> is the only thing currently broken in revu password recovery?
<fbond> anyone know?
<fbond> I see a lot of revu action, but I'm locked out, and have been for several days
<fbond> I never bothered memorizing my password cause it was so easy to just recover it
<imbrandon> see the last item in the topic
<imbrandon> revu has been updated with LP intergration
<zul> this is not good.."touch: setting times of `patch-stamp': Function not implemented
<zul> edgy chroot
<ogra> mount proc
<zul> duh...thanks ogra
<hub> what is the color difference in MOM output
<hub> light green vs medium green?
<sivang> so, grab a pbuilder, and the new set of Mom scripts, and start merging right?
* Birthday_kgoetz hugs hub  and sivang 
<sivang> hey Birthday_kgoetz , happy birhtday :)
<sivang> how do e co-ordinate who is working on which package?
<Birthday_kgoetz> hi sivang :)
<Birthday_kgoetz> whats mom?
<hub> Birthday_kgoetz: my name is hub, not hug
<hub> Birthday_kgoetz: MoM = Merge-o-Matic
<Birthday_kgoetz> :S
<Birthday_kgoetz> oh, lol
* Birthday_kgoetz genrates random affection
* zul does an evil laugh
* hub updates his pbuilder
* Birthday_kgoetz looks at sleep
<Birthday_kgoetz> hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi Birthday_kgoetz
<Birthday_kgoetz> :)
<LaserJock> wild guess here, but I'm getting the feeling it's somebody's birthday :-)
<Birthday_kgoetz> LaserJock: :) what gave it away :)
<hub> so if I resolve a merge from MoM, I'll just dput it to universe?
<Toadstool> re
<hub> do I need to apply to that: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+members ?
<LaserJock> hub: that's for people who want to upload to REVU
<hub> ah right
<hub> I"m already in Ubuntu-dev
<LaserJock> yep, so i think you can just upload the merge
<hub> I know I can upload to universe
<hub> I was asking if that was the right thing
<hub> I'll do it
<Tonio_> hi all
<_ion> Bono estente.
<bddebian> Heya Tonio_
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<highvoltage> hey bddebianisagod and LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how are things?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: still sick, but got a driver's license
* bddebian kicks highvoltage ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh. i wish i could say that :)
* highvoltage limps around the channel
<LaserJock> highvoltage: could say what?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I told you to stay away from those French hookers.. ;-P
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that i got my drivers' license!
<highvoltage> bddebian: if only they could stay away from him, too!
<bddebian> :-)
* highvoltage hopes that LaserJock's wife isn't reading
<LaserJock> I'm talking to her on the phone
<LaserJock> It's the stupid subway system
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I had a driver's license at 16, not having one is really bad for me
<hub> I have 2 drivers license
<hub> one European, one north american
<LaserJock> still haven't gotten new credit and atm cards though, they should be arriving anyday
<hub> LaserJock: what happened?
<hub> you lost everything?
<LaserJock> hub: yeah, pickpocketed on the Paris subway
<highvoltage> LaserJock: i have a learners, my biggest incentive for a license is so that i can buy a better car. at the moment it's an 1989 citi golf
<hub> LaserJock: never happened to me
<hub> LaserJock: and I have taken the subway for YEARS
<highvoltage> hub: where do you live?
<hub> highvoltage: Ottawa, Canada
<hub> highvoltage: used to live in Paris' burb
<hub> and Lille
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I had to learn to drive early growing up on a ranch, I could drive decently well by the time I was 12
<highvoltage> wow. i only learned to drive when i was about 22.
<highvoltage> (well, drive car, at least)
<hub> I got my license at 19
<hub> in France the age is 18 anyway
<highvoltage> 18 here too.
<hub> you can drink before you can drive ;-)
<LaserJock> well, I had to get a driver's license at 16 so I could drive myself to university ;-)
<highvoltage> we can only drink from 18 too. and smoke.
<LaserJock> smoke at 18, drink at 21 here
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wow. we seriously need more liberal laws here :)
<hub> in France, they don't care
<hub> anybody can buy smokes
<hub> and bozze
<Toadstool> I've seen kids smoking at 10 in France :(
<bddebian> w00t
<highvoltage> hub: well, that explains why Paris is so dirty ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<Toadstool> heh
<highvoltage> i've seen kids smoking at 12 in cape town too, but at least they throw their cigarette buds in the bin when they're done ;)
<LaserJock> but at least you go to Subway next to Notre Dame, Paris can't be all that bad
<hub> highvoltage: compared to what?
<Toadstool> LaserJock: as a tourist Paris is a nice town :)
<highvoltage> hub: cape town, durban, london
<LaserJock> Toadstool: if you keep you wallet ;-)
<highvoltage> even jo'burg.
<hub> only been to london
<hub> not significantly cleaner
<Toadstool> LaserJock: that's because the guy noticed you were a foreigner ^^
<hub> that's because I never put the wallet in the back pack or the back pocket of the jeans
<hub> seriously
<Toadstool> yeah
<LaserJock> I put it in the front to be careful
<highvoltage> london was cleaner than paris was now when i was there last year.
<zul> heh when i was in nairobi some kids stole my dad's mirror from his car
<highvoltage> at least london has signs "This is a high pick-pocket area" in certain areas :)
<bddebian> LaserJock: You were an Evil American so you were a target ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: of course :-)
<Toadstool> tss :)
<highvoltage> bddebian: which evil nationilty are you?
<LaserJock> at least I had a great bunch of friends around :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: :)
<hub> highvoltage: they have the same announcement in paris subway... in French
<bddebian> highvoltage: I am the most Evil of Americans :-)
<hub> highvoltage: anyway. Rule #1 pickpockets are everywhere
<highvoltage> hub: hehe
<hub> rule #2: not seeing any, see rule #1
<LaserJock> anyway ...
<LaserJock> everybody got there edgy pbuilders ready to go?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Sort of :-)
<LaserJock> were we going to do a REVU day today?
<hub> mine is working
<LaserJock> I'm still trying to grab all the -updates and -security stuff on my Dapper box :(
<Toadstool> mine is broken 'cause the local mirror doesn't have the latest cpio version... :(
<fbond> whenever anyone has a second, I'd love to be approved as a universe contributor
<LaserJock> fbond: did you join the LP team?
<fbond> that's what I need approval on
<LaserJock> as long as you have joined, then somebody will be around to approve it when they can
<fbond> ok
<LaserJock> they are notified by email when you join
<LaserJock> I think siretart is the one that can approve
<crimsun> beware that sudo, cpio, and binutils are all horked on Edgy currently
<chillywilly> ajmitch: what time is it there?
<LaserJock> crimsun: I thought they were fixed recently (at least cpio)
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
<crimsun> LaserJock: the first two should be
<crimsun> LaserJock: binutils bug only rears its head in stripping
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> this release cycle is so short, I sure hope things like that  can get ironed out soon
<hub> how often update MoM listing?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I almost have scilab-4.0 nailed, I think
<crimsun> who's uploading merges with MoM still listed in the changelog? :)
<bddebian> Not I
<bddebian> OK, now I am really confused.  I did a pubilder login --save-after-login, apt-get update, and exit
<bddebian> And when I pbuilder build foo, it still can't find x11proto-gl-dev
<LaserJock> bddebian: can you put your source package up somewhere?
<bddebian> It's not mine
<LaserJock> who's is it?
<bddebian> Hobbsee's
<bddebian> But it works in her and imbrandon's pbuilders
<LaserJock> bddebian: oh, then that's quite odd
<bddebian> Aye
<crimsun> bddebian: you don't have x11proto-gl-dev in http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Packages ?
<bddebian> crimsun: If I do an apt-get install from pbuilder login, it works fine
<crimsun> ...but?
<bddebian> pbuilder build doesn't get it
<crimsun> got the source package posted?
<crimsun> dsc would be fine for starters
<bddebian> No, Hobbsee sent it to me via e-mail
<bddebian> Though it might be on REVU by now
<bddebian> ksudoku
<crimsun> yeah, that is on revu
<crimsun> got something funky in your pbuilder, perhaps?
<bddebian> Aye but I can't figure out what..
<crimsun> and the pbuilder's up to date n' all?
<sivang> hey slomo , 'sup? :)
<bddebian> I did both a 'sudo pbuild-edgy update --override-config' and tried 'sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login' and apt-get update inside
<bddebian> OK, dumb question.  What is PREFIX vs. DESTDIR?
<crimsun> prefix is the actual prefix of the path where file are installed
<crimsun> normally, /usr
<crimsun> destdir is the destination where compiled source is installed into
<bddebian> Ah, hmm
<bddebian> Man this stupid scilab package is making me feel more stupid than usual :-(
<crimsun> so for Debian/Ubuntu packages, prefix is normally /usr, and destdir is normally $(pwd)/debian/$package
<bddebian> Well this is what Scientific Computing is doing for scilab..  $(MAKE) -e install PREFIX=$(CURDIR)/debian/scilab/usr DOCNAME=scilab
<crimsun> so they're using PREFIX where packages normally use DESTDIR?
<crimsun> can you post the Makefile?
<bddebian> crimsun: According to Debian.readme, they specifically aren't touching the configuration files
<bddebian> But they are using normal debhelper stuff, not cdbs
<crimsun> right, but I would need to see the Makefile to understand its semantics
<bddebian> Oh, sorry, hang on
<crimsun> (well, its syntax but the semantics of the call)
<Spec> when is uds-paris?
<LaserJock> it was last week
<crimsun> it happened already
<Spec> oh, cool
* Spec wrote a spec and it got approved :)
<LaserJock> which one?
<Spec> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/auto-unmount-notifications
<LaserJock> ah
<bddebian> crimsun: will a makefile.in do?
<crimsun> bddebian: erm, well, we'll see
<bddebian> I guess I can make one
<Spec> LaserJock: it's not a very impressive spec, but it should've been implemented since breezy ;p
<crimsun> no, usability improvements are impressive regardless
<crimsun> lots of small improvements win
<crimsun> what is most annoying to me at the moment is that external storage via usb/firewire isn't unmounted pre-suspend-to-{ram,disk}
<LaserJock> to me there seemed to be a lot of activity around usability and a11y in Paris
<crimsun> as there should have been imnsho
<LaserJock> I wish I could have gone to all the BOFs :-)
<LaserJock> it was really hard picking and choosing
<bddebian> Damn, apparently I REALLY don't understand cdbs :'-(
<crimsun> there is simply too much inanity in #ubuntu atm
<bddebian> crimsun: If you get a sec:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/scilab4/
<crimsun> I'm firewalled on 8000
<crimsun> pretty much firewalled on everything save 80, 22, and 21.
<crimsun> (sec, I need to find another host)
<LaserJock> crimsun: bummer, I feel your pain, although not quite that much
<uniq> i can mirror for you if you want.
<uniq> http://ubuntu.lnix.net/misc/scilab4/
<uniq> there you go.
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> crimsun: It seems like even with PREFIX set, it tries to create the $package dir under debian/tmp
<crimsun> bddebian: right, so they're using PREFIX where DESTDIR normally is
<crimsun> prefix/destdir a non-issue
<crimsun> what dh_compat?
<bddebian> crimsun: Yeah, the do weird crap like prefix=$PREFIX
<crimsun> any .installs?
<bddebian> 3 of them
<bddebian> Compat 4
<crimsun> does debian/rules force it into debian/tmp/ ?
<bddebian> I am trying to.  Or do you mean theirs?  scilab-3.0 cdbs did
<crimsun> what do the .installs use?
<crimsun> meaning scilab-4.0's
<bddebian> I know but the scicomputing package or mine?  scicomputing only builds 1 binary
<bddebian> They use debhelper
<crimsun> whichever package you're having problems with
<bddebian> Ah, mine has the following, witch is wrong:
<bddebian> debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/X11_defaults/
<bddebian> debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/config/
<crimsun> (hi barry!)
<bddebian> ?
<bddebian> Did you mean what are the .install files?
<bddebian> crimsun: Did I lose you?
<crimsun> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: the "yes" was in response to the .install
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh, sorry.  scilab.install, scilab-doc.install, and scilab-bin.install
<crimsun> bddebian: right, do those use tmp ?
<bddebian> The first two lines of scilab.install is what I posted above
<crimsun> nod, and fixing those results in...?
<bddebian> What do you mean by "fixing" those?  My package doesn't install in temp unless I hack that PREFIX= line
<crimsun> source package would work best. Offline for 30 minutes.
<bddebian> And even then it's screwed
<zul> hey
<bddebian> Howdy
<bddebian> crimsun: I have to head home.  Thanks for your time and hopefully I can catch you later on..
<bddebian> Later folks
#ubuntu-motu 2006-06-30
<LaserJock> hmm, I need to figure out a way to make an RSS feed tracking Debian uploads of a given set of packages
<LaserJock> same thing for Ubuntu as well
<zul> wtf with vim 7?
<fbond> ok, now I am on ubuntu-universe-contributors, but I still need to recover my password from revu... anyone like to help me with this?
<zul> might have to ask a revu admin if one is around
<LaserJock> fbond: have you uploaded a package yet?
<fbond> yes, I've uploaded several
<fbond> is it correct that there is revu breakage?
<fbond> I'd like to respond to a comment on a package...
<LaserJock> fbond: ok, so then put in your email and hit "Login"
<fbond> I apologize, I'll keep my password safe from now on, but I had previously just counted on easy recovery
<fbond> done that
<LaserJock> fbond: and then did you click on "recover"
<fbond> yes
<LaserJock> and what did you get?
<fbond> I reported this problem here the day before yesterday or something
<fbond> I get either no encrypted string, or an IOError due to broken pipe
<LaserJock> hmm
<fbond> it varies between the two
<fbond> yes, it is broken
<fbond> as far as I can tell, anyway...
<LaserJock> and did you email the admins?
<fbond> no, I suppose that would be a good next step
<fbond> I spoke with someone here
<fbond> I understood it to be a known problem
<LaserJock> fbond: whether it is know or not it will likely take an admin to fix it :-)
<fbond> yes, I thought I had been speaking with siretart, who is an admin, yes?
<LaserJock> yes, he's the guy
<LaserJock> so as long as he know about it then it is in good hands
<fbond> okay I will send him an email, anyway.  don't recall for sure if I had gotten a positive resonse from him that a fix was in progress.
<fbond> in any case, it'd be handy to just get the encrypted password, one way or another.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> nice, and I have 2 accounts, only 1 of which is a reviewer :-)
<sivang> night motus
<LaserJock> cya sivang
<sivang> laters LaserJock
<Toadstool> g'night everybody
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jsgotangco> hey bd
<ajmitch> hello
<jsgotangco> good morning ajmitch
<ajmitch> good morning jsgotangco, how are you?
<bddebian> Hi jsgotangco, ajmitch
<jsgotangco> im good just arrived too early at work though
<ajmitch> heh
<zul> all the more reason to slack off and doing what you want to do but not suppose to
<jsgotangco> heh exactly!
<jsgotangco> heh this is the first time i heard of a package named beautifulsoup
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs
<TheMuso> How does a non-MOTu go about filing a sync request?
<LaserJock> I think the same was as a MOTU, but I'm not sure if that makes sense
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ping?
<bddebian> Wow LaserJock, that is some power ;-)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> imbrandon_: you actually here? :-)
<imbrandon_> kinda ;)
<imbrandon_> sup ?
<zakame> hi all
<zakame> bddebian: how's the x11proto thing? =)
<ajmitch> hi zakame
<zakame> I'll be bound to manila in a few moments
<zakame> heya ajmitch
<bddebian> zakame: Hi.  Still b0rked :-(
* bddebian grovels at crimsun's feet
<DarkMageZ> ooo, what application is b0rked?
<bddebian> DarkMageZ: No, my pbuilder environment for some reason
<DarkMageZ> oh
* DarkMageZ should probley set one of those up for building proper dosbox packages
<LaserJock> bddebian: did you try building a new one from scratch?
<bddebian> No not yet
<bddebian> I've been trying to build your damn scilab-4 for 3 days now :-)
<zul> argh...give up
<bddebian> I can always count on you for support zul
<LaserJock> well, I gave up after ~ 15 min.
<bddebian> It shouldn't be that difficult really
<bddebian> But the 3.0 packaging is wrong imo and I don't know cdbs for shit :-(
<zakame> hmm, do you keep a tee of the pbuildlogs?
<bddebian> zakame: For my broken pbuilder or for scilab?
<zakame> the broken pbuilder building scilab
<bddebian> My broken pbuilder isn't my scilab problem :-)
<jsgotangco> zakame: what will you be doing here?
<zakame> jsgotangco: school, bookhunting, and laptop
<jsgotangco> wow that SoC money sure came in handy :P
<zakame> hehe
<zakame> well I'm not buying just yet, just looking around
<zakame> I might cosider that acer ferrari though :P
<jsgotangco> yeah i saw the sale
<jsgotangco> its pretty good deal but i hate Acer
<zakame> how come?
<jsgotangco> their designers don't know anything about form factor
<bddebian> zakame: Here is pbuilder problem:  http://pastebin.us/810
<zakame> ah
<bddebian> But if I do a pbuilder login apt-get update and apt-get install x11proto-gl-dev, I get it ??
<jsgotangco> the acer ferrari being sold cheaply is almost 2 years old and already discontinued, the ones they sell now use carbon fiber
<zakame> what's scilab's B-D line?
<zakame> in debian/control?
<zakame> jsgotangco: ah
<bddebian> zakame: That's not from scilab, that is from Hobbsee's ksudoku
<zakame> bddebian: what's the B-D line anyhow?
<bddebian> Hmm, this is interesting
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/edgy/ksudoku$ dpkg-source -x ksudoku_0.3-4ubuntu1.dsc
<bddebian> dpkg-source: error: syntax error in source control file ./ksudoku_0.3-4ubuntu1.dsc at line 22: found start of PGP body but no signature
<crimsun> argh
<crimsun> (I'm pretty sure I asked you about the source package, the dsc specifically, some hours ago)
<bddebian> crimsun: I thought we were talking about scilab?
<crimsun> bddebian: that was later
* bddebian bows head in shame
<bddebian> Well now at least you all know how stupid I really am so you can stop with the God cracks :-)
<crimsun> 15:34 < bddebian> crimsun: If I do an apt-get install from pbuilder login, it
<crimsun>                   works fine
<crimsun> 15:35 < crimsun> ...but?
<crimsun> 15:35 < bddebian> pbuilder build doesn't get it
<crimsun> 15:36 < crimsun> got the source package posted?
<crimsun> 15:36 < crimsun> dsc would be fine for starters
<crimsun> (to be fair, I should have looked at the dsc myself, but I was reading an abstract at that time)
<bddebian> It's interesting that the build process actually started..
<crimsun> it'll do that.
<crimsun> cf. someone's problem with pbuilder foo_source.changes
<bddebian> crimsun: Have any patience left for me for scilab? :-(
<crimsun> bddebian: got a few dozen things going on atm, try in 1 hr.
<bddebian> OK thx
<crimsun> (and don't block on me, either. This channel's full of helpfuls.)
<bddebian> No one else will put up with me :-)
<TheMuso> Hey all. If a package hasn't had anything in it related to python before, and one wants to add some files that need to be placed in the python site-packages dir, is there a debhelper command or a variable that one can use to copy the files into the right python<version>/site-packages directory?
<bddebian> man dh_python ?
<TheMuso> No I don't think so. Thats only for working out dependancies.
<TheMuso> Or should I just assume a particular python version?
<crimsun> we use python-support now.
<crimsun> python-<version>/site-packages is the older way
<crimsun> now-> Edgy
<TheMuso> does python-support put them in the right place?
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<TheMuso> Ah, it has a debhelper hook.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Did your ksudoku get uploaded?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: no idea
<Hobbsee> bddebian: it's not on edgy changes yet
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i didnt ask anyone else to puload it
<TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
<crimsun> TheMuso: np
<crimsun> Hobbsee: do you feel it's ready?
<crimsun> I can it for tomorrow morning
<Hobbsee> crimsun: um, i think so
<Hobbsee> crimsun: that admin/cvs message is still there, even though the directory gets moved in the clean
<crimsun> Hobbsee: that's fine, it really should be stripped from the original tarball
<crimsun> dpkg-source will ignore deletions
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Tsk, tsk, CVS dirs :-)
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> bddebian: :P
<bddebian> The rest of the Lintian stuff is crap :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i didnt do it!  it's debian's fault!
<Hobbsee> yeah hehe
<Hobbsee> crimsun: if you're in an uploading mood, i've got various other packages listed on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuEdgyPackageUpdates as done - for syncs or merges
<crimsun> Hobbsee: you can file sync requests
<crimsun> the template I've been following is to file a bug on the source package entitled "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync source_package version-revision from Debian Sid", then in the bug report I link to MoM's REPORT and say "Ok to override Ubuntu changes"
<crimsun> then I subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Hobbsee> crimsun: right, yep
<sladen> chillywilly: /etc/acpi.d/resume.d/NNfoobar
* bddebian tries a pbuild on ksudoku again
<crimsun> /etc/acpi/resume.d/ , but yeah
* bddebian debates whether or not to upload ksudoku...
<Hobbsee> bddebian: did it work this time?
<bddebian> Yeah, I'm an idiot
<bddebian> I ripped out the CVS dir though.. ;-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: heh, how?
<bddebian>  find ./ -name CVS |xargs rm -rf
<bddebian> Then took out the rm .admin/CVS from rules :-)
<Hobbsee> what, from the .orig.tar.tz?
<bddebian> No, just from the extracted source
<Hobbsee> oh ok
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Uploaded
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yay!  thanks!
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Well it's good to be of SOME use ;-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: of course you're of use!
<Hobbsee> bleh.  it froze.
<TheMuso> heh
<Hobbsee> my machine isnt behaving very well at the moment
<TheMuso> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<Hobbsee> trying to mess with teh desktop installer
<bddebian2> Damn, I am sooo close
<bddebian2> For some reason the libs dir doesn't install to my prefix... :-(
<bddebian2> Well she builds, but she's still screwed up a little..
<bddebian2> Gnight folks
<ajmitch> afternoon
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee
<Toadstool> 'morning
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi.
<Fujitsu> Hmm.
<Fujitsu> Lag.
<Hobbsee> heh, fun
<shawarma> sivang: pong
<sivang> shawarma: hi, have you managed to eventually upload libgfshare ?
<shawarma> Sure.
<shawarma> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2522
* sivang downloads the source
<Hobbsee> hi all
<shawarma> hi Hobbsee
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
<zul> hey
<Hobbsee> hi shawarma and StevenK
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<StevenK> Ow!
<Kyral> Morning
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> hi
<tuxmaniac> bug 51241
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51241 in gaphor "Gaphor fails to run" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51241
* Yagisan waves. Anyone here use cmake ?
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<zul> hi zakame
<zakame> heya Hobbsee zul, here in Manila now
<zakame> heh, I forgot to /away earlier
<bddebian> Heya gang
<raphink> hi bddebian
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey
<bddebian> Hi raphink and Kamping_Kaiser :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<raphink> hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey mate
<raphink> do you guys have an idea if there's a tool to remove all the symbolic links pointing to a file?
<bddebian> rm?
<raphink> rm only removes the file
<raphink> itself
<raphink> but it won't remove the symbolic links pointing to it
<raphink> it'll just leave them broken
<bddebian> Isn't there a remove for ln ?
<raphink> I know the symlinks system is only one way
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> doesn't seem so
<jsgotangco> good evening
<raphink> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hello raphink how are you?
<raphink> pretty good
<raphink> although I'm stuck on something
<raphink> but I'll find a way ;)
<Hobbsee> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2556
<Hobbsee> oops
* Hobbsee warns all people that merges are MUCH easier with the MoM.
<zul> yeah i know i already did one ;)
* Hobbsee has just leanred.
<raphink> I still do my merges manually
<raphink> I've tried with the MoM in Dapper
<raphink> and somehow I didn't find it easier
<raphink> but I guess it is if you take some time to understand how it works
<Hobbsee> true
<sladen> how do I get a package from  non-free into multiverse?   Just put a sync request into launchpad?
<sladen> raphink: you can't find the sym links pointing to a file without doing a full search of the harddisk
<raphink> sladen: that's what I thought
<raphink> and even fiind might not have an option for that I guess
<raphink> sladen: and yes about the non-free
<raphink> it seems to be the best way
<raphink> if it builds on edgy
<sivang> hey slomo :)
<sivang> sladen: yo
<slomo> hi sivang :)
<raphink> hi sivang
<sivang> sladen: did you see my PM I left on your detached irc window?
* sivang hugs raphink , sladen 
<sivang> and sladen
<sivang> err, slomo
<slomo> sivang: nope :(
<sivang> slomo: no, that was for sladen :)
<sivang> slomo: so it's okay.
<slomo> sivang: oh ok ;) sorry
* raphink hugs sivang
<ivoks> howdy
<raphink> hi ivoks
<ivoks> i'm having some troubles with one package
<ivoks> anyone familiar with dpatch? actully, this is patch issue
<ivoks> or isn't :)
<ivoks> well, here it is:
<ivoks> patch_opts="-g0 -f --no-backup-if-mismatch -F0 -U ${workdir:+-d ${workdir}}"
<sivang> ivoks: what's the issue?
<ivoks> patch doesn't take -U argument
<sivang> ivoks: hmm, I've never had to deal with dpatch special opts like this so far..
<ivoks> sivang: do you have any idea what maintaner wanted to do with that -U?
<ivoks> sivang: me neither...
<sivang> ivoks: let's see in depatch's manual
* sivang pokes
<ivoks> uh
<ivoks> i get it
<ivoks> he wanted to add arguments to dpatch
<sivang> ivoks: how did you find that out?
<sivang> ivoks: which package is that btw?
<ivoks> but hplip
<ivoks> without but
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> hm... but -U isn't is neither in patch nor dpatch
<ivoks> sivang: this is source from debian unstable
<sivang> ivoks: sorry, I've lost you :)
<ivoks> sivang: :)
<ivoks> i'll just remove -U and see what I get
<sivang> ivoks: cool
<ivoks> i get compiled package...
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> i'll contact him to find out what's up with that
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<phanatic> hi people
* Yagisan waves hello
<phanatic> hey Yagisan
* Yagisan cries. autotools hates me. cmake hates me.
<bddebian> Yagisan: cmake hates everyone :-)
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<Yagisan> bddebian: I have what I think is a simple cmake file
<Yagisan> bddebian: but it hates it
<Yagisan> bddebian: running make gives me errors out the wazoo
<bddebian> :-)
<LaserJock> siretart: ping?
<phanatic> siretart: ping
<phanatic> :)
<Yagisan> bddebian: it's blatantly ignoring the include files,
<LaserJock> raphink: ping?
<raphink> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> raphink: got a REVU problem
<raphink> that is bad news
<raphink> what is that?
<LaserJock> bluekuja just uploaded an upgrade of gtorrent-viewer and it seems stuck in the incoming queue
<raphink> ah right
<raphink> I'll have a look
* raphink is translating again
<raphink> kbarcode
<raphink> it's horrible
<raphink> the guy who translated this into french (hopefuly he's not here) just can't speak english, nor french
<bluekuja> raphink, the package was already inside, but I uploaded a new version
<raphink> np bluekuja
<raphink> it's fixed now, try it again
* bddebian does the "summon crimsun dance"
<bluekuja> raphink, I re-upload it?
<raphink> yes bluekuja
<bluekuja> oki perfect
<bluekuja> done
<raphink> bluekuja: please subscribe to the ubuntu-universe-contributors group on LP
<raphink> having your GnuPG key in your LP account
<raphink> then ping me
<bluekuja> ok
<LaserJock> bddebian: ubuntu-science is going to start gettting flooded by your bugs? ;-)
<bluekuja> raphink, done
<bluekuja> waiting approval
<raphink> I'll go there blue
<bddebian> LaserJock: Of course :-)
<raphink> which is your account bluekuja?
* bddebian stops working on scilab4
<LaserJock> smart move
<bddebian> Acutally I have it
<bddebian> I just have some directory issues to work out
<raphink> hop
<raphink> let's approve
<raphink> now let's wait soem time for the revu-key update
<raphink> i'll tell you when it's done bluekuja
<LaserJock> raphink: so key issues get stuck in incoming as opposed to rejected?
<raphink> no they get stuck in rejected ;)
<raphink> the changes file is put into rejected
<LaserJock> ah
<raphink> which blocks the system for this package
<LaserJock> makes sense
<bluekuja> raphink, my account is bluekuja
<raphink> yes I figured bluekuja :)
<bluekuja> great :)
<bluekuja> i have to run
<bluekuja> will you be on later?
<bluekuja> anyway you can leave me a pm when done
<raphink> done :)
<raphink> hh
<bluekuja> lol great
<bluekuja> thanks a lot
<bluekuja> see you later
<bluekuja> LaserJock, will be you here later?
<raphink> upload again it should work
<bluekuja> ok uploading
<LaserJock> bluekuja: yeah, when it's up I'll have a look
<bluekuja> perfect
<bluekuja> cya guys
<raphink> it'll be on in 3 minutes
<raphink> should be on :)
<raphink> in 3 minutes that is :)
<raphink> cya bluekuja
<Spec> was there a revu day?
<raphink> not yet I think
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure what happened, it looked to me like it was supposed to be yesterday
<raphink> LaserJock: ah?
<raphink> mayb
<Spec> what does compat mean?
<raphink> I'm too busy with work
<LaserJock> Spec: that's the version of debhelper the package conforms too
<Spec> ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> so if you are using debhelper 5 then compat should have 5
<raphink> this translation is horrible
<raphink> never saw that ever before
<LaserJock> bddebian: do you know why sometimes debian/tmp is used and other times debian/<packagename>?
<Spec> my compat was 4, but debhelper is 5
<Spec> lintian doesn't check for that?
<bddebian> LaserJock: debian/tmp used to be the default afaik.  It's older.  The new method is debian/$package or whatever
<LaserJock> yeah, but both work, right?
<bddebian> Yep
<LaserJock> do you know if that is a dpkg-buildpackage thing?
<bddebian> In fact for a multi-binary package (like scilab ;-) ) sometimes it's easier to build everything in debian/tmp then split out the files with install or foo.install files
<LaserJock> hmm, I would have thought debian/$package would have been better for multiple binaries
<bddebian> Well if they are "clean" it is
<bddebian> If there is the appropriate build targets in the makefiles for example
<Spec> raphink: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2444  - you say GPL license terms is incomplete, but I don't see why...any clues? :p
<LaserJock> you should have a copyright year
<LaserJock> like "Copyright (c) 2006 blah blah blah"
<Spec> where? in the sourec?
<raphink> by the way Spec if  you look closely, I didn't say it, Lionel did :)
<LaserJock> in debian/copyright
<raphink> I just sponsored his comments
<Spec> bah
<LaserJock> but in the source too
<Spec> i thought for sure you said it this time :p
<LaserJock> hehe
<Spec> in the source there is a date, 2005
<raphink> hehe
<LaserJock> k
<Spec> so, "Copyright (c) 2005 Roman Kagan <roman_kagan@email.address>"
<Spec> in debian/copyright
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> at least that's what I think his comment was about
<raphink> exactly
<raphink> it's the most important part in debian/changelog almost
<raphink> without this line, the copyright is void
<Spec> in debian/changelgo?
<raphink> sorry copyright
<raphink> doing too many things at the same time ;)
<Spec> oki, just re-uploaded :)
<raphink> ok :)
<Spec> i was worried i missed a copyright statement in changelog
<Spec> but i was thinking to myself ... w-hat :p
<LaserJock> lol
<Spec> ok, backup tape-rotation time, whee!
<Spec> the best part of fridays
<Spec> i wish firefox would show a diff of a webpage when you refresh and the content changes
<raphink> ok as some of you have noticed, there are key problems on REVU, due to the new system getting the keys from LP
<LaserJock> yeah, that would handy
<raphink> if you experience upload issues
<raphink> please request addition to the ubuntu-universe-contributors gruop
* raphink is gonna post on the motu ml
<raphink> :)
<Spec> how do we request addition to the ubuntu-universe-contributors group?
<LaserJock> Spec: you go to the LP page and hit "
<LaserJock> join
<raphink> :)
<raphink> easy, heh?
<phanatic> Spec: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors/+join
<LaserJock> or that
<raphink> if you know how to join group on orkut, friendster or whatever stuff of the kind
<raphink> you're good enough to join groups on LP ;)
<Spec> wow, that tested my limits of comprehension...it was close, but i managed to click the 'join' button.
<raphink> and now it's gonna be hard to deal with the flow ;)
<raphink> Spec: yeah :)
<Spec> so i do have to resubmit to revu after i get accepted?
<raphink> hop
<LaserJock> raphink: is the revu-tool thingy automatically run on new uploads?
<raphink> nope
<raphink> we don't want it to run automatically for now
<raphink> we want to be able to check stuff before building the packages
<raphink> in case there are some hard links in the makefiles for ex
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> weird, does this make sense in a clean: rule?
<LaserJock> i
<LaserJock> bah, that's not it
<LaserJock> ii
<LaserJock> freaking heck
<raphink> ??
<raphink> breathe
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16850
<Yagisan> any cmake users here ?
<raphink> that is very ugly imo LaserJock
<LaserJock> seems odd for a clean rule at least
<raphink> yes
<LaserJock> raphink: this seems odd to me too http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16851
<LaserJock> why whould you need cross-compiling info in a source package?
<raphink> bah
<fowlduck> I have an issue while packaging pyflag, and while I have worked out more than a few of them, this one has me stumped: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16852
<fowlduck> this is during the pbuild build
<fowlduck> anyone have any ideas?
<bddebian> Looks like you are missing a header file somewhere
<fowlduck> bddebian, thats what i figured, or a python library.
<fowlduck> not a clue how to find out which one though
<fowlduck> or which one is missing
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> it's not very clear indeed
<bddebian> pyerrors.h
* fowlduck bands his head on the keyboard
<bddebian> But you do have -I/usr/include/python2.4
<bddebian> Hmm
<fowlduck> hmm, pyerrors.h?
<fowlduck> this is pretty fun, otherwise.  fixing the issues and learning to package. :)
<bddebian> fowlduck: Check config.log or earlier in the build process and see if something is trying #include pyerrors.h and is failing
<fowlduck> ok
<fowlduck> quick question, where is the config.log?
<bddebian> Oh, is io.c including pyerrors?
<bddebian> It should be in the build dir if it is creating one
<fowlduck> not seeing the config.log
<fowlduck> it must be including it
* fowlduck bands his head on the keyboard
<fowlduck> bangs*
<LaserJock> dude, that's going to hurt your keyboard ;-)
<raphink> how many keyboards a week do you usually break fowlduck?
<fowlduck> don't worry, i have replacements
* _ion feels sorry for the poor keyboard. :-(
<fowlduck> hehehe ;)
<fowlduck> so, any ideas on how to fix this anyone?  something I can look into, or try?
<raphink> fowlduck: yes, do whatt bddebian suggested
<fowlduck> bddebian, io.c has #include <Python.h> at the top
<bddebian> Ah
<fowlduck> but there is no Python.h in the lib directory, hmmm
<bddebian> No, it's in /usr/include/python2.4
<fowlduck> so it should be putting that into the pbuild env
<bddebian> ??
<bddebian> This line should be taking care of that for you:  -I/usr/include/python2.4
<fowlduck> where should that line be?
<bddebian> That means include this dir when looking for header files
<bddebian> It's already there
<bddebian> Is the package build-depending on python2.4?
<fowlduck> oh, ok
<Spec> now that I'm in ubuntu-universe-contributors, should I re-upload to revu?
<fowlduck> is it possible that some of the included header files in Python.h are missing?
<Spec> hmm, i suppose i should wait until the .changes file leaves the incoming/rejected folder :-/
<phanatic> what can i do if siretart has sponsored an upload to dapper-updates for me, but the package is still not in the archive?
<fowlduck> bddebian, do you suppose that building it outside of a pbuilder environment would fix the issue? :)
<bddebian> fowlduck: Possible but unlikely.  Most likely it's failing earlier in the process
<raphink> Spec: what package is it?
<bddebian> fowlduck: Might not hurt to try it
<Spec> raphink: cxacrufw
<raphink> Spec: the .changes file will not leave the folder unless you ask me to ;)
<raphink> ow you can upload again
<raphink> s/ow/now/
<fowlduck> bddebian, so I should run over the output with a fine-tooth comb then, ok.  Thanks for your help! :)
<fowlduck> bddebian, oh, and can you give me a hint at what to be looking for at all?
<fowlduck> pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?
<bddebian> fowlduck: Any errors :-)
<Spec> yay, uploaded :)
<fowlduck> bddebian, don't be too specific now! ;D
<raphink> great
<Spec> so, i get to promote ubuntu next week at a conference in san diego, we have some crazy large number of cds waiting for us already :)
* Yagisan kicks cmake. Find my includes you evil #@!$@!!!
<fowlduck> LaserJock, by the way, the packaging docs now are absolutely fantastic.  Well-done, I know you had a hand in them.
<LaserJock> oh, thanks
<LaserJock> lots of people helped
<LaserJock> edgy's will be better
<bddebian> fowlduck: sudo dpkg-buildpackage -us -nc > build.log 2>&1
<fowlduck> well, cheers to them too.  the rocked the house on that one
<fowlduck> bddebian, ooh, i'll pop that right in there.
<Yagisan> bddebian: could you take a look at something for me. This look right to you ? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16854
<fowlduck> bddebian, doing the same for the pbuilder thing too, i have a doctor's appt to head off to, but I'm sure I'll pester you later.  Thanks for everything again. :D
<raphink> LaserJock: that's good to hear :)
<raphink> to know that people use the packaging guide :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I got a couple of those today
<LaserJock> weird
<raphink> converted 2 of my colleagues to kubuntu in a week :)
<Spec> from?
<bddebian> Yagisan: Looks reasonable but I'm certainly no expert
<raphink> one from debian
<raphink> the other from windows
<Spec> nice
<raphink> although they're both long time linux engineers
<Spec> debian's probably easier than from windows
<raphink> Spec: well the windows guy have been a linux system admin for years, but had not tried the linux desktops for years, too ;)
<raphink> Spec: so he had stayed with the idea of KDE 2
<bddebian> OK, if anyone is bored, has time, wants et help, etc, please check out:  http://www2.bddebian.com:8000/packages/ubuntu/scilab4/
<raphink> and GNOME ... not even sure it existed back then
<Spec> understandable, i'm on windows right now but work on debian servers :-/
<raphink> Spec: :p
<raphink> bad guy
<Spec> not by choice, of course
<bddebian> If you install it, you have to modify /usr/lib/scilab-4.0/bin/scilab and fix the SCI path
<Spec> vmware and putty are what i use most on windows, :p
<raphink> Spec: my company will try to force us to use windows
<raphink> we are about 50 engineers where I work
<raphink> 95% using linux or bsd
<Spec> hehe
<raphink> on our desktops
<raphink> and I hope the company won't manage to have any of us switch
<Spec> it'd be easier if i used ubuntu as a desktop
<Spec> terminals are better than putty
<raphink> way better
<Spec> and i could do actual work on my system instead of having to ssh everywhre else
<Yagisan> bddebian: I thought so too but I end up with this when it runs :( http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16855 and I know those files are there
<raphink> that's what I showed to my colleague today
<Spec> but alas, policy is policy :p
<raphink> how easier his life could be with a linux desktop
<raphink> instead of 10 putty windows
<Spec> and the occasional 'cmd'
<raphink> haha
<Spec> so bad looking next to putty :-/
<raphink> well I test the debian packages i do on my own machines
<raphink> before building them on a remote one
<raphink> if they have me on windows, I won't be able to do that anymore
<Spec> i build my packages in vmware/ubuntu :-/
<raphink> argh
<raphink> what a shame/waste of time&energy
<Spec> but don't worry
<raphink> not to talk about money
<Spec> i putty to my vmware session
<phanatic> bluekuja: i've made some comments to gtorrent-viewer
<raphink> lol*
<raphink> stupid policy
<Spec> can't copy/pate as well into vmware :p
<raphink> :(
<raphink> and dealing with the ssh keys is horrible with putty iirc
<raphink> we should just try to build a network stuff that will be impossible to use on windows
<raphink> so they have no choice but to keep us on linux
<raphink> otherwise productivity will get down by 90%
<raphink> I have some colleagues who almost never used windows
<bddebian> Yagisan: I assume you are running this from /tmp/3/ ?
<Yagisan> bddebian: of course
<raphink> Spec: ok let's try to build your package
<bddebian> Yagisan: Dunno man, sorry.  It sure looks like it should work..
<bddebian> Yagisan: In this file: /tmp/3/engine/portable/include/de_base.h  what does the include for dd_def.h look like?
<Spec> raphink: lintian is giving an error?
<Spec> E: cxacrufw; DH_COMPAT is greater than the major version of debhelper depended on.
<Spec>  DH_COMPAT is set to a version greater than the major version of
<Spec>  debhelper that is depended on. This may cause things to break.
<raphink> Spec: I don't know, it's just beginning to build
<Spec> sorry, that was linda
<raphink> Spec: what version of debhelper does it depend on?
<Spec> hah
<Spec> 4.0.0 :-/
<Spec> i should up it to 5.0.7
<raphink> hehe yes
<raphink> and the standards verson is too old, too
<Spec> what should the Standards-Version be?
<raphink> check the verson of debian-policy in edgy
<raphink> :)
<Yagisan> bddebian: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16857
<Spec> the version of debian-policy in edgy....moo?
<Spec> hmm, i don't think my pbuilder environment is even edgy
<raphink> heh
<raphink> Spec: you're building packages for edgy now
<raphink> so you should test them in edgy
<raphink> either in a pbuilder, a chroot, or an installed environment
<raphink> preferably a pbuilder
<bddebian> Yagisan: No, I mean de_base.h.  How does it include dd_def.h?
<Spec> :o), i just switched it to edgy, it had been dapper
<Spec> the package, that is
<raphink> ok
<raphink> yes
<raphink> and the dependencies have to be, too
<Spec> how do i find debian-policy in a pbuilder environment?
<raphink> so you have to use edgy's dehelper version
<raphink> Spec: you don't
<Spec> oh, good.
<raphink> but you can check packages.ubuntu.com if you don't have a machine on edgy or a chroot
<raphink> or you can use motutools imo
<raphink> although I never used them
<Spec> in pbuilderrc i just change DISTRIBUTION=edgy and update?
<Yagisan> bddebian: oops. sorry. This one http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/16858
<raphink> no it's not enough Spec
<raphink> and not even necessary
<raphink> you have to update your apt.conf/sources.list
<raphink> and run update --override-conf
<raphink> to force pbuilder reading it's conf again
<raphink> s/it's/its/
<bddebian> Yagisan: And both of those files are here: /tmp/3/engine/portable/include ?
<Spec> "Upgrading for distribution edgy"... :)
<Spec> but this doesn't change how dpkg-buildpackage does it's thing, do I have to do anything for that to be edgy-compliant?
<raphink> Spec: check that is downloads files for edgy an dnot dapper
<raphink> Spec: dpkg-buildpackage?
<raphink> you don't build using that
<raphink> I mean if you use a pbuilder
<raphink> you just debuild -S -sa
<raphink> then you pbuilder the dsc
<Spec> i use dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S -rfakeroot -kMYKEY
<Spec> and pbuilder to actually build it
<raphink> hmm ok
<Spec> yeap, it's downloading files for edgy
<raphink> if you prefer :)
<Spec> well, either way, that's fine if i'm using the dpkg-buildpackage on dapper?
<raphink> Spec: as long as you build the deb in edgy, yes
<raphink> imo
<Spec> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/cxacrufw-0606301515/lintian
<Spec> why does that say unknown target distrobution edgy?
<raphink> that's because it checks from breezy
<raphink> (it's not even dapper)
<Spec> raphink: but in all reality, my built deb doesn't matter because it gets built on revu, right?
<raphink> so just ignore it
<Yagisan> hmm. X crashed on me :(
<Yagisan> bddebian: yes. All the includes needed are there
<Spec> better than init crashing i suppose
<raphink> Yagisan: was it painful?
<Yagisan> Spec: well, I lost all my work anyway, ao it's a moot point
<Yagisan> s/ao/so
<Yagisan> raphink: yes. My head hurts now
<bddebian> Yagisan: Sorry man, I just don't know and I have to head home.. :-(
<Yagisan> bddebian: thanks anyway. I might as well go to bed and sleep on it. Unless a cmake guru is around.
<Yagisan> right. 6am, I'm off to bed
<bddebian> Gnight Yagisan
<bddebian> I'm off fo a bit too, later folks
<Spec> *slow*, raphink where do i find standards-version in packages.ubuntu.com?
<raphink> Spec: search for the debian-policy packages for edgy
<raphink> and check the version of this package
<Spec> aaah
<Spec> so Standards-Version should be 3.7.2.1
<Spec> or just 3.7.2 ?
<raphink> 3.7.2 is fine
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> yeah, i think the last .1 is just for typos or something
<raphink> yes it's a small revision
<Spec> ok, reuploaded with fixes
<LaserJock> phanatic: ping?
<phanatic> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> phanatic: .desktop files are generated durning the build process?
<phanatic> yeah, from the makefile
<LaserJock> ah
<kbrooks> Hi. :-)
<Gloubiboulga> evening MOTU world
<Gloubiboulga> hello kbrooks
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hello phanatic
<Spec> raphink: wanna rebuild it? :o)
<raphink> sure let's see
<Spec> hehe
<Spec>  This package appears to conform to a newer Standards-Version that has
<Spec>  been released. One of us is incorrect.
<Spec> looks good to me... :o)
<Spec> except i can't see the .changes file off revu - i don't have permission, that's odd
<raphink> Spec: rebuilt
<Spec> whee,
<Spec> i'm going to call it a day :p
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> :)
<Spec> i kinda wonder what the security update for gpg involved
<raphink> you can read aboiut it in the changelog i'm sure
<Spec> crash and possibly arbitrary code execution patch, whee
<Spec> okay, g'bye :)
<Toadstool> re
<raphink> wb Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey raphink
<raphink> :)
<Toadstool> er, I suppose the latest cdbs and debhelper versions will be synced soon, I'd like to use cdbs & python-central for mmpython :)
<sivang> Toadstool: what does it enable you to do ?
<Toadstool> it installs python modules in /usr/share/python-central/<package> and byte-compiles them for each python version on the system
<Toadstool> you don't need python2.X-foo packages anymore
<sivang> oh cool,
<Toadstool> (short summary but that's the idea)
<sivang> is doko going to make this part of the new toolchain ?
<sivang> Toadstool: what is mmpython ?
<Toadstool> i think since he's the Debian maintainer for pycentral
<Toadstool> +so
<Toadstool> sivang: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2520
<Toadstool> :)
<sivang> Toadstool: but wouldn't that fill the system with lots of different version of python ?
<sivang> oops, I meant
<Toadstool> ?
<sivang> fill it with many version of the same module per each python version? isn't the previous way of having one python on the system bad?
<sivang> s/isn't/it/
<Toadstool> nope it creates symlinks to /usr/share/python-central/<package> files for each python version installed
<crimsun> not bad but inflexible
<sivang> Toadstool: but it has to make sure all modules are executable by the oldest available interpreter on the system? how does it keep ABI ?
<Toadstool> it's the maintainer's job to make sure it works
<Toadstool> there's a special debian/control field
<Toadstool> XS-Python-Versions for source packages and XB-... for binary ones
<Toadstool> I'm not an expert, see http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ for more info :)
<sivang> Toadstool: this is already supported in debhelper in debian?
<Toadstool> yep
<sivang> or , in dpkg for that matter
<Toadstool> in dh_python
<sivang> I see. nice to learn about new stuff we're going to get from upstream ;)
<Toadstool> heh
<Sp4rKy> raphink, thx for planfacile 553 error , works now :)
<sivang> laters folks, be back in a bunch
<raphink> we need a volunteer to test a bug
* lionelp raise his hand :)
<raphink> thank you lionelp
<raphink> :)
<raphink> ok here it is
<Hawkwind> lionelp: Brave soul you are :P
<raphink> mkdir patch
* lionelp think he should have been quiet :)
<raphink> chgrp floppy patch
<raphink> chmod g+s patch
<raphink> cd patch
<raphink> apt-get source patch
<raphink> ls -l
<raphink> :)
<raphink> what are the group ACLs on files and folders?
<Hawkwind> Heh interesting
<raphink> Hawkwind: did you try it?
<raphink> dpkg-source breaks the sticky bit rule when extracting the package
<raphink> so the extracted folder doesnt get the right group ownership
<lionelp> ls -l
<lionelp> total 260
<lionelp> drwxr-xr-x 5 lionel lionel   4096 2006-06-30 23:28 patch-2.5.9
<lionelp> -rw-r--r-- 1 lionel floppy  49672 2004-10-25 18:38 patch_2.5.9-2.diff.gz
<lionelp> -rw-r--r-- 1 lionel floppy    564 2004-10-25 18:38 patch_2.5.9-2.dsc
<lionelp> -rw-r--r-- 1 lionel floppy 201926 2004-04-06 22:13 patch_2.5.9.orig.tar.gz
<raphink> yes lionelp
<Hawkwind> drwxr-xr-x 5 hawkwind hawkwind   1856 2006-06-30 16:29 patch-2.5.9
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy    49672 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.diff.gz
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy      564 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.dsc
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy   201926 2004-04-06 15:13 patch_2.5.9.orig.tar.gz
<raphink> and patch-2.5.9 shouldn't be lionel lionel
<Hawkwind> Heh
<lionelp> raphink: the sticky bit is for new created files
<raphink> it should be lionel floppy instead
<Hawkwind> Yep.  Did the same here too
<lionelp> that is the case for the diff, the ds, the orig.tar.gz
<raphink> lionelp: no file should be created in this folder with another group than floppy
<raphink> now LaserJock and I are wondering if it's patch's fault
<raphink> so let's try that :
<raphink> rm -rf patch-2.5.9
<raphink> tar xvzf patch_2.5.9.orig.tar.gz
<raphink> ls -l
<raphink> the extracted folder hsa the right ACL this time
<raphink> now
<Hawkwind> drwxr-sr-x 4 hawkwind floppy   1784 2003-05-20 11:19 patch-2.5.9
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy  49672 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.diff.gz
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy    564 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.dsc
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy 201926 2004-04-06 15:13 patch_2.5.9.orig.tar.gz
<raphink> gunzip patch_2.5.9-2.diff.gz
<Hawkwind> That time it's correct
<raphink> patch -p 0 < patch_2.5.9-2.diff
<raphink> ls -l
<Hawkwind> drwxr-sr-x 5 hawkwind floppy   1856 2006-06-30 16:32 patch-2.5.9
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy 364636 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.diff
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy    564 2004-10-25 11:38 patch_2.5.9-2.dsc
<Hawkwind> -rw-r--r-- 1 hawkwind floppy 201926 2004-04-06 15:13 patch_2.5.9.orig.tar.gz
<raphink> Hawkwind: how about ls -l patch-2.5.9 ?
<raphink> don't give the details
<raphink> just tell me if you get the right ACL _inside_ the dir
<Hawkwind> Yes, all hawkwind/floppy
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I get that too
<raphink> but funnily enough, LaserJock doesn't
<Hawkwind> Hmmm strange
<raphink> I'll report against dpkg-source for now
<raphink> there's no reason why dpkg-source should override this rule
<raphink> this is a security issue
<Hawkwind> No it shouldn't.  Seems strange that it does as that could be a security issue
<Hawkwind> Heh :)
<raphink> ;)
<raphink> found that while hacking on revu to try setting a sticky bit on folders ;)
<Hawkwind> Very interesting indeed
<raphink> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/51468
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51468 in dpkg "dpkg-source doesn't respect group sticky bit" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<raphink> can you complete/comment?
<lionelp> raphink: having a quick look in dpkg-source, it creates a temporary dir and lot of stuff. It is not just an extract
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> I guess
<raphink> dpkg-source is a huge script
<lionelp> raphink: this bug should not pushed to Debian ?
<lionelp> I saw :-(
<raphink> I guess
<lionelp> hard to read at this time :)
* lionelp cheking on his Debian
<raphink> hehe
<raphink> it's hard to read perl at all times
* raphink had to read object perl today
<raphink> commented by a dev :s
<lionelp> same on Debian Sid
<raphink> lionelp: does the bug exist there, too?
<lionelp> yes, it behaves the same (loose acl / sticky bit)
<raphink> bugs.debian.org is stuck
<lionelp> yep
<lionelp> You can reach bugs on packages.qa.debian.org
<raphink> that's because we're two people tryin gto access it at the same time
<raphink> ;)
<lionelp> But you will learn that dpkg have 582 bugs opened :-(
<raphink> ouch
<raphink> can you find the one we need?
<lionelp> I am trying...
<raphink> well
<Hawkwind> raphink: You still want me to comment on the 51468 bug report or wait ?
<raphink> sure you can comment if you have things to day :)
<raphink> say
<Hawkwind> I've always got things to say.  Just a matter of should I say them or not :)
<raphink> can't find anything about sticky bit on debian
<raphink> maybe http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=238460 was not fixed properly
<raphink> and caused the bugt
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 238460 in general "Subject: general: apt-get source: certain files in some packages are owned by a" [Important,Closed] 
<raphink> although it's not sure
<Hawkwind> According to that they feel it's fixed in the latest dpkg, which it doesn't appear to be actually from what we've seen
<raphink> yes
<lionelp> raphink: this one is better : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=341506
<raphink> Ubugtu: wake up :p
<raphink> grr
<raphink> yes I saw this one, too
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-01
<raphink> might be linked
<raphink> but not sure
<raphink> :s
<bddebian> Heya gang
<raphink> wb bddebian
<siretart> bddebian: heyho!
<siretart> bddebian: you are converting scilab to cdbs, eh? ;)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> cdbs!
<crimsun> ooh, I like the Updated Merges link
<bddebian> siretart: It is cdbs :-)
<bddebian> Hi raphink
* raphink discovered about dbs a few days ago, in an old package
<bddebian> siretart: I'm just trying to build 4.0 instead of 3.0
<phanatic> good night everyone
<raphink> night phanatic
<bddebian> Gnight phanatic
<LaserJock> crimsun: what link?
<bddebian> LaserJock: At the bottom of the merges pages
<bddebian> I assume
<bddebian> Shows you updates to merged packages
<LaserJock> oh, I never reached the bottom before ;-)
<bddebian> siretart: Want to look at scilab for me? :-)
<siretart> bddebian: no, but the debian maintainer is wondering about your package..
<LaserJock> heh
<bddebian> siretart: That bad?
<LaserJock> what debian mainainer?
<bddebian> And which maintainer?
<siretart> bddebian: you seem to have forgotten a 'make clean' ;)
<bddebian> I thought he orphaned it
<siretart> daniel 'panthera' baumann is preparing a 4.0 upload
<bddebian> In what year?
<siretart> oh, now he tells the upstream clean was broken. anyway, its late for me
<bddebian> siretart: Is he on OFTC?
<siretart> he is
<bddebian> siretart: Would he mind if I talked to him?
<siretart> bddebian: just do, I told him to contact you via email
<raphink> time to upgrade my server to edgy
<raphink> tadaaaaa
<siretart> brave boy.. :)
<rob> yep, my thoughts too
<raphink> lol
<raphink> not my laptop though
<rob> I'm only just upgrading my chroot for building packages now
<raphink> mhm
<raphink> that's what I was doing so far
<raphink> but my /var disk is dying
<raphink> so I can't use my chroot anymore
<raphink> so heh
<raphink> time to upgrade the server
<raphink> :)
<raphink> no choice
<rob> ouch
<rob> good, err, luck :)
<raphink> :)
<raphink> well it works fine with chroots and pbuilders
<raphink> so it should be fine
<siretart> well, edgy is still a kinda 'moving target'
<siretart> you cannot really predict what gets changed/updated in what way
<siretart> which I find 'interesting' for servers..
<raphink> yes I know
<raphink> but it doesn't matter
<raphink> :)
<raphink> it's a test server ;)
<rob> I was just about to say I hope thats not a mission critical server
<siretart> hm. I could create another xen instance...
<raphink> rob: no it's just my frontal lol
<raphink> thing crucial
<raphink> it's a personal machine
<rob> ah, still, ouch
<raphink> I surely wouldn't put my working desktop on edgy
<rob> yep
<rob> I was considering setting up a second partition for an edgy desktop to test with, but my poor 40gig hard drive is bursting at the rivets
<rob> I wonder if I can beg the Minister of War and Finance for another?
<crimsun> do you have a specific answer in mind?
<rob> probably will be "no"..
<imbrandon> LaserJock, ping
<LaserJock> imbrandon: pong
<bddebian> Well, all that scilab work for nothing
* raphink is gonna change the kubuntu wallpaper for edgy dev :)
<raphink> just for fun :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: really?
<LaserJock> :(
<crimsun> why nothing?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, he is going to do it with debhelper :-)
<crimsun> ah, well at least it'll get done.
<bddebian> I guess it was a decent learning experience
<bddebian> crimsun: We will see :)
<LaserJock> crimsun: well, he told me it was a week away like in Feb. or something
<LaserJock> hopefully it will indeed be soon
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'll annoy the crap out of him like I do crimsun.  It'll get done just to shut me up ;-P
<LaserJock> bddebian: eeexcelent ;-)
<bddebian> Damn, I see crimsun is busy :-)
<LaserJock> xmakemol! \o/
<bddebian> huh?
<azeem> ah, new upstream version
<zul> hey
<bddebian> Hey zul
<zul> hey bddebian how goes it
<bddebian> Fine thanks. You?
<zul> good
<bddebian> Ack, gotta run, catch you all later
<zul> time to test new grub..
<fowlduck> howdy people
<LaserJock> hi fowlduck
<jsgotangco> good morning
<fowlduck> I'm still getting everything setup to start packaging from home, I'll be with ya later LaserJock....MUHAHAHA.....
<rob> hmmkay
<fowlduck> sorry, long day
<rob> :)
* LaserJock runs
* Kyral grabs LJ
<Kyral> You ain't going anywhere :P
<LaserJock> why not? ;p
<Kyral> Uuuuu
<Kyral> I because I said so
<Kyral> thats hwy
<fowlduck> good enough for me
<Kyral> yah thats it :P
<LaserJock> fine
* jsgotangco pickpockets LaserJock
<LaserJock> dang, I just got my new credit cards today
* Kyral stuffs LJ into a linear accelerator and launches him skyward
* fowlduck feeds LaserJock burritos until he's so full he thinks he'll explode then places him on a Tilt-A-Whirl
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: no driver's license yet i assume?
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: I got that first, took about 1hr at the dmv
<LaserJock> I drive a lot so it was pretty important
<fowlduck> LaserJock, lol
<fowlduck> I drive a lot, maybe I should get a driver's license
<LaserJock> it would be bad to not have a license here
<jsgotangco> well should be anywhere
<jsgotangco> you could get jailed
<jsgotangco> well you *should* be jailed driving without one
<Erlang> what is the Merge-O-Matic?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Erlang: Automatically merges packages from Deiban
<bddebian> Err Debian even
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Erlang> okay.
<jsgotangco> Mom!
<Erlang> *subject shift*, is there an official form to request a backport?
<bddebian> Erlang: I think a bug report on LP, but don't quote me
<jsgotangco> there's an LP entry for that
<LaserJock> Erlang: it's a close relative of Keybuck's ;-)
<bddebian> hehe
<jsgotangco> but its mostly backport *fixes* rather than actual backport apps
* jsgotangco slept too late after watching too much football
<LaserJock> really? we can't but our crackful edgy stuff in there? ;-)
<Erlang> okay, so backports are mostly for fixes?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Nah, that's dapper-updates ;-P
<LaserJock> Erlang: I don't know, if you want it file a bug and see what they say :-)
<jsgotangco> Erlang: according to LP
<jsgotangco> A backport is a fix that is uploaded to an already-released version of a distribution  for example, to fix a security vulnerability or critical data-loss bug.
<jsgotangco> =)
<Erlang> oh, okay.  nevermind then.
<LaserJock> what?
<LaserJock> that's not right
<LaserJock> that's what -security and -updates are fore
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: file a bug =)
<Erlang> It'd be cool to have an authoritative opinion on that...
<bddebian> Erlang: LaserJock is THE authority around here :-)
<LaserJock> well, I think the TB is pretty authoritative
<LaserJock> bddebian: hah, hardly
<Erlang> the TB?
<LaserJock> Technical Board
<Erlang> ok
<LaserJock> in a TB meeting not terribly long ago the backporting policy was discussed
<LaserJock> siretart made a wiki page about it, you might try looking it up
<jsgotangco> Erlang: if you need the authority on software packaging LaserJock is DA MAN
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> what the heck, I'm starting to feel like bddebian
<jsgotangco> don't be surprised if he makes a dpkg replacement soon =D
<Hobbsee> hi all
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: heh, I don't think so
<Erlang> I myself wouldn't have any problem being told I'm good.
<bddebian> LaserJock: Why is that?
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)  did my stuff work?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Worked For Me(TM)
<bddebian> Didn't they hit the archive?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: yay.  no idea, i just turned the computer on
<bddebian> Ah
<Hobbsee> and my edgy partition is kinda screwed at the moment
<LaserJock> noo wayy ;-)
* Hobbsee pokes LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> the merging doc could be simplified to include the MoM stuff...
<Erlang> ah, well, I'm gonna fill a but about updating Erlang to 10.b.10.  Just making sure it builds out of the box on Dapper.
<LaserJock> Erlang: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto in case you haven't found it
<jsgotangco> see ya guys later, we're heading for imax today =)
<bddebian> Nice, enjoy
<LaserJock> oh cool
<Hobbsee> jsgotangco: enjoy
* Erlang needs to be updated on Dapper.
<Erlang> Sorry.  I just love how that looks.
<bddebian> Hmm, shite, ajunta doesn't build in edgy pbuilder
<Hobbsee> ahha
<Hobbsee> it hates you
<Hobbsee> why this time?
<bddebian> creating libanjuta-devhelp.la
<bddebian> /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libwnck-1.la: No such file or directory
<bddebian> libtool: link: `/usr/lib/libwnck-1.la' is not a valid libtool archive
<bddebian> make[4] : *** [libanjuta-devhelp.la]  Error 1
<Hobbsee> bddebian: and where is that file?
<bddebian> Good freakin question.  I haven't looked yet :-)
<Hobbsee> looking now
<Hobbsee> bddebian: b-d on libwnck-dev
<Hobbsee> that should solve your problem
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Trying now, thanks
<Hobbsee> bddebian:  :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon!
<imbrandon_> heh LaserJock , we have a hard time getting online at the same time ;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> brb
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee: got my new iBook running ;)
<imbrandon_> Sysinfo for 'shuttlepod': Linux 2.6.15-23-powerpc running KDE 3.5.3, CPU:  at 0 MHz (24 bogomips), , RAM: 618/628MB, 81 proc's, 55.0min up
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: yay!
<Hobbsee> 0 MHz?  :P
<imbrandon_> lol i think the konvo scipt is messed up
<imbrandon_> script*
<LaserJock> nice, 24 bogomips
<imbrandon_> lol
<imbrandon_> brb
<LaserJock> doh, I've been /query'ing his other self
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Still no worky
<Hobbsee> bddebian: darn!  that's what package p.u.c says the file is in
<Hobbsee> what was the erro r this time?
<bddebian> Same thing but I'm in pbuilder login now :-)
<Hobbsee> er, what?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: I did a pbuilder login so I can check it more closely
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ah ok
<bddebian> Gah, it needs libtool
<bddebian> #$!#@$%
<LaserJock> oh, nice swearing
<bddebian> :-)
<Hobbsee_phone> hehe
<Hobbsee_phone> bddebian: why dont you teach the devs something too?  :P
<bddebian> 'cause I'm stupid
<Hobbsee_phone> sure you can
<Kyral> Night people
<Hobbsee> bye Kyral
<Hawkwind> Kyral: Sleep well
<ajmitch> evening
<Gloubiboulga> hi ajmitch
<phanatic> morning
<rob> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey rob
* rob makes love with his gpg backup cd
<phanatic> siretart: ping
<siretart> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hi siretart, sysinfo is still not in the dapper-updates archive. what went wrong?
<ajmitch> hello siretart
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<siretart> phanatic: sysinfo? err, I don't really remember, did I upload it for you? didn't I bounce you the ACCEPTED mail?
<siretart> grr. why dpkg-buildpackage doesn't exclude my .bzr directory anymore.. hmm
<phanatic> siretart: yeah, you were sponsoring it. i got the mail, but still no package available...
<siretart> phanatic: ah, I think I remember keybuk asking me who approved the upload
<siretart> phanatic: perhaps you should mail keybuk/mdz about that
<phanatic> siretart: ok, i'll do that
<phanatic> siretart: i mailed keybuk, waiting for an answer :)
<looksaus> I have a somewhat exotic keyboard layout: an iBook with Belgian keyboard
<looksaus> I wonder what I could do to make it really well supported
<looksaus> right now, the console keymap is quite ok, but the X support for it is almost nonexistant
<looksaus> I would like to get a clean Belgian iBook layout, integrated with Ubuntu
<looksaus> any suggestions on where to start?
<kelmo> moin
<kelmo> hi siretart, got a minute or two?
<AnAnt> lionelp: thanks for your comments, as for kchmviewer, when I made it (a month or two ago), there wasn't a debian package, anyways, the kchmviewer I provide does not depend on KDE, only QT
<AnAnt> lionelp: the previous version of kchmviewer (v1.3) that was on Ubuntu, was depending on KDE
<AnAnt> lionelp: as for other packages, ok, if I find a package on debian I won't send it to REVU, I was told before that it is OK
<AnAnt> I got a question about REVU, why doesn't it email me the comments that people send on packages I upload ?
<AnAnt> or at least email me with a notification that there is a comment
<AnAnt> errr, nevermind, it seems I should subscribe to some list
<ajmitch> because noone hacked that in to email uploaders directly, just the mailing list
<AnAnt> k, thanks
<AnAnt> lionelp: seems you are away, so later then
<siretart> kelmo: heyhi
<siretart> heyho, that is
<kelmo> hehe
<kelmo> siretart: launchpad #51351
<siretart> kelmo: just wanted to talk to you about that
<kelmo> siretart: from the limited information on that report, i think its fixed in svn
<siretart> wow! that was fast
<kelmo> and the env issue should also be addressed
<kelmo> *should*
<kelmo> lets test it out
<siretart> regarding the Keybuks new world order about an ifupdown replacement, I think this is this spec: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/replacement-networking
<kelmo> ah, cool
<siretart> looking at the whiteboard, it looks like we will stay with ifupdown in edgy
<kelmo> will have a read
<kelmo> well, it would take quite some work
<kelmo> okay, seems it still needs more thought
<siretart> perhaps edgy+1, perhaps netconf-devel comes with something new earlier..
<kelmo> yeah, about that
<kelmo> is netconf-devel alive? just a bit quiet?
<siretart> well, there are some interested ppl subscribed, but noone seems to have time atm to work on it
<siretart> I think anyone is invited to discuss and hack
<kelmo> there is code and specification drafted somewhere?
<kelmo> and/or
<kelmo> i could not yield much with google
<kelmo> but possibly would be interested in helping in some form or another
<siretart> I'm not sure, I think there is only the mailing list archive
<siretart> the idea was to craft a ifupdown replacement in python first, test it, and port it then to c++
<DanielC> Hi all. I'm learning to make .deb packages and have a question: dh_testdir "makes sure that you are in the correct directory when building a package". Which directory is that? The base package directory? The debian subdirectory? The src subdirectory?
<DanielC> I assume that it's wherever I would normally run ./configure. Is that right?
<kelmo> siretart: i am pretty confident I've accounted for the ifstate debian<=>ubuntu divergence
<kelmo> siretart: is there anything todo on launchpad for that? or maybe worth requesting another upload?
<kelmo> siretart: i guess some testing/confirmation would also be in order
<siretart> kelmo: I need to leave for lunch now
<siretart> kelmo: I'm trying to convert my system to the wpa-roam mode, but I'm having some troubles
<siretart> (wpa_cli doesn't block here)
<siretart> will investigate later
<siretart> cu later
<kelmo> seeya
<kelmo> DanielC: usually in the parent directory to the debian one
<DanielC> kelmo: Thanks.
<kelmo> ie ./debian should exist in your building path
<DanielC> I think I understand...
<DanielC> So, on debian/rules, after I run dh_testdir, I can reasonably assume I'm in the parent directory of 'debian'... right?
<kelmo> the path `./debian/rules' kinda suggests that
<DanielC> kelmo: Since the 'rules' file is in the 'debian' directory, it's not obvious to me that dh_testdir is equivalent to 'cd ..'. That's why I ask.
<kelmo> DanielC: $(CURDIR) env variable is set somewhere
<DanielC> ok
<kelmo> DanielC: you could assume that $(CURDIR) is where you are working from, iirc
<DanielC> Ok, that's useful. Thanks.
<\sh> moins
<kelmo> gday \sh
<lfittl> does somebody have time to upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2568 for me? (already reviewed and uploaded yesterday, but the buildds override some flags, so it FTBFS)
<sivang> lfittl: hi, what was the buildds problem with your package?
<lfittl> sivang: for some reason CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS is set to "" when built by the buildds but not when built by p
<lfittl> builder
<sivang> lfittl: I see, do you have enough advocates for the package ?
<lfittl> it is just an update, and I got one yesterday, so I would say yes ;)
<sivang> lfittl: cool, do you know if this update is likely to come from debian ? because if so, and your changes are adopted upstream, we'd better wait for it to sync or file a sync request
<sivang> ajmitch, siretart : what do I need to do to become a MOTU review, and be able to do logins in REVU, test builds etc?
<sivang> lfittl: I just want to amek sure I go through the right administrativa before I Upload :)
<sivang> raphink , siretart , ajmitch : also, is thre and easy way to get the source from REVU for local testing?
<lfittl> sivang: it was not updated in debian for a long time, so I took over maintainership for ubuntu last november
<raphink> not yet sivang
<raphink> in REVU2 there'll be a deb-src repository
<raphink> it's part of the specs
<bigon> hi, I have a question... are the new packages in debian automaticaly synced in edgy? and if not how can I ask a package to be added in universe?
<raphink> they should be synced imo
<bigon> ok thx
* Yagisan waves G'day
* StevenK waves to Yagisan.
<Yagisan> hey StevenK, what's up ?
<StevenK> Not much. Trying to motivate myself after watching the footy.
<StevenK> It isn't working.
<Yagisan> StevenK: I'm wondering why cmake hates me. Followed the tuts' and the scripts look right, but it claims it can't find my headers
* StevenK returns ENOCLUE when passed cmake.
<Yagisan> StevenK: autotools replacement.
<Yagisan> StevenK: has human readable build scripts ;)
<StevenK> Ah.
<Yagisan> StevenK: but hates me just as much ans autotools does.
<\sh> Yagisan: latest cmake version?
<Yagisan> \sh: yep. Edgy's
<StevenK> Yagisan: I'd believe that auto* is large enough to have a personality, but I don't know about cmake ....
<\sh> Yagisan: ah...that reminds me to provide some new kde4 and qt packages for our fellow KDE core devs
<Yagisan> brb - daughter still sick
<\sh> but I don't have the drive to do it now
* \sh 's sick, too..summer flue
<havoc> that sucks
<havoc> our neighbor and his family are really sick too, so I cut their lawn for them yesterday
<kelmo> my mums got the shits ;-) (literally ;-)
<sivang> raphink: I'll just fetch for the source then with wget
<raphink> sure sivang
<Yagisan> kelmo: now imagine a 2 year old like that. On carpet. I await your pity.
<\sh> I traveled by train last monday to karlsruhe, when I started in cologne, it was 20 degrees C outside, in the train, the aircondition was set to -10 degrees C something like that, and when I arrived in karlsruhe, it was 35 degrees C, so I just catched it...
<havoc> 35C is damn hot
* havoc doesn't like anything over 20C
<\sh> havoc: well, soccer championships in germany, what do you expect from the weather ;) we need to provide a good environment for brasilia...
<havoc> bah
* \sh is so sad, that argentina lost yesterdays match against germany
<sivang> hmm?
<sivang> sivan@swirl:~/src-pkgs$ wget http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libloki-0607010730/libloki_0.1.5-0ubuntu2_source.changes
<sivang> --15:57:38--  http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/libloki-0607010730/libloki_0.1.5-0ubuntu2_source.changes
<sivang>            => `libloki_0.1.5-0ubuntu2_source.changes'
<sivang> Resolving revu.tauware.de... 69.60.114.100
<sivang> Connecting to revu.tauware.de|69.60.114.100|:80... connected.
<sivang> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
<sivang> 15:57:44 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
<sivang> lfittl: do you know why I can't get that file? :)
<ajmitch> sivang: because you shouldn't, and you don't need it
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, this is something special to REVU ?
<\sh> no..it's purpose :)
<ajmitch> yes, it's called filesystem permissions
<sivang> ajmitch: no, I meant, that file...
<ajmitch> you know that a .changes file is what is uploaded
<sivang> ajmitch: it's left over from the build attempt, I see, so I shouldn't need it anyways
<sivang> ajmitch: yes
* Yagisan curses cmake again.
<ajmitch> and that some MOTU could put a package up for review, and then some random person could decide to grab the changes file & stick it in the archive
<ajmitch> since that changes file has the signature needed
<sivang> ajmitch: right, I see. btw, what do I need to do to become a REVU registered reviewer?
<ajmitch> ask someone with access
<sivang> ajmitch: k, thanks
<sivang> hmm, LP is slow today or is it just me ? :)
<sivang> lfittl: going over the source now
<lfittl> sivang: thanks (sry, was away from the computer)
<siretart> kelmo: still around?
<siretart> kelmo: ok, I got back, and everyting seems to work now (without that I changed anything, of course)
<siretart> I assume that there were some strange association failures..
<sivang> siretart: can you set me up as a reviewer in REVU?
<sivang> siretart: I'd like to help lfittl with his package
<siretart> sivang: sure. whats your email/id in revu?
<sivang> siretart: not sure :)
<siretart> oh. what email do you use to login?
<sivang> in LP ?
<siretart> in revu
<sivang> I never logged in
<siretart> oh. ok.
<lfittl> siretart: it should be sivan@ubuntu.com
<siretart> please send me an gpg encrypted email with your requested password
<sivang> lfittl: ;)
<lfittl> ;)
<sivang> siretart: I already sent something with my GPG to be able ot upload to REVU
<sivang> siretart: does that count as something ?
<kelmo> re siretart
<siretart> sivang: well, you upload stuff to ubuntu, no? so you can become a reviewer. please email me your requested password
<siretart> kelmo: I will keep wpasupplicant in inspection
<sivang> siretart: okay, thanks :)
<kelmo> siretart: i think something was lost in translation of last sentence ;-)
<kelmo> observation perhaps?
<siretart> err, I meant I will keep an eye on wpasupplicant
<siretart> currently it works for me
<siretart> unfortunately, I don't have wpa networks near me to test atm :(
<kelmo> i do ;-)
<kelmo> siretart: well, we've got some great feedback lately, so that keeps me happy, and I hope you too ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: of course!
<siretart> kelmo: I think we can close the pseudo RC bug in the next upload
<siretart> urgency=low
<kelmo> siretart: do as you see fit
<siretart> ok
<kelmo> am half thinking about pushing an upload candidate to kyle again this weekend, but am wary that it may be too soon
<kelmo> what do you think?
<siretart> I'm undecided as well.
<siretart> sivang: you are sending me empty mails?
<siretart> kelmo: lets ask him around wednesday. so that everyone had the complete weekend to test the package
<kelmo> siretart: yep, sure
<sivang> siretart: sorry, that was a mistake, sending you a good one shortly
<kelmo> siretart: gn8 then, until next time ;-)
<algor> how use wpa wireless?
<AnAnt> lionelp: ok, I just checked kchmviewer, as I told you, my package doesn't require KDE
<sivang> guys, has anyone tried to burn something using edgy?
<sivang> cdrecord: Operation not permitted. Cannot send SCSI cmd via ioctl
<sivang> ^^
<DanielC> Help:  debuild gives the error "no-copyright-file" but I do have a debian/copyright file. Does anyone know what this means then?
<sivang> interestingly, nautilus-cd-burner fails without explenation
<AnAnt> DanielC: dunno, but check the permissions of that file
<DanielC> AnAnt:  Just checked... the are 644.
<AnAnt> DanielC: dunno then
<DanielC> Ok, thanks.
<DanielC> It also warns "description-starts-with-leading-spaces" but in debian/control the description says:  "Description:Getting Started guide ..."  (ie. I don't see any leading spaces)
<AnAnt> DanielC: well, I think that there must be a space
<AnAnt> DanielC: I just checked a control file here, and there is a single space after the colon
<AnAnt> DanielC: also the long description, each line has a single leading space
<DanielC> Ah.
<DanielC> My long description starts with 2 spaces.
<DanielC> Thanks. The spaces warning is now gone.
<AnAnt> k
<DanielC> Is there any reason why I shouldn't have a list in the extended description?
<DanielC> debuild says "possible unintended list in description"... well I do have a list in the description (a list of chapters).
<AnAnt> dunno
<DanielC> ok
<lfittl> sivang: finished with your review?
<Yagisan> ok. any favourite cross-platform build systems guys ? (excluding autotools -too complex, and cmake - too stubborn)
<lfittl> maybe scons?
* Yagisan looking again.
<jsgotangco> man ascii worldcup is weird hehhee
<Yagisan> I wish cmake worked. It looked perfect :(
<lfittl> what is the problem with cmake?
<Yagisan> lfittl: it refuses to find my includes, even though it is specifically told where they are
<Kamion> Could somebody please check and verify bug 51347?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51347 in librpcsecgss "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync librpcsecgss 0.13-1from Debian sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51347
<Yagisan> lfittl: and gives me 3 screens worth of errors for my trouble
<lfittl> Yagisan: did you ask on the mailinglist what the problem could be?
<Yagisan> lfittl: no.
<lfittl> Yagisan: maybe its something simple, because not finding the includes sounds like a problem that is easy to solve if you know the system good enough
<sivang> lfittl: had a problem with my network, I will upload shortly :)
<lfittl> sivang: perfect :)
<sivang> siretart: how do you sponser an upload for someone? just dput with the changes file but with your key sign , and his names will be on edgy-changes ?
<siretart> sivang: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-beyond-pkging.en.html#s-sponsoring - though I prefer using debsign
<Yagisan> lfittl: what to have a look at the output ? I can quickly pastbin it.
<Yagisan> s/what/want
<lfittl> Yagisan: I don't know cmake good enough, sry, but simply ask on the mailinglist ;)
<sivang> siretart: sent you an encrypted password email
<sivang> siretart: let me know if you got it
<sivang> lfittl: where is the upstream source for libloki published ?
<lfittl> sivang: http://www.sf.net/projects/loki-lib/
<sivang> lfittl: thanks
<sivang> come one sf.net, let's see your first page :)
<sivang> ah, finally
<lfittl> :)
<siretart> lfittl: you want to package libloki?
<lfittl> siretart: I already packaged it
<sivang> lfittl: almost done :)
<lfittl> siretart: and I also maintain it since last year
<sivang> lfittl: are you going to be maintaining it in debian as well?
<siretart> lfittl: nice. there are really nice concepts in alexandrescu's work
<lfittl> sivang: I was planning that since months, but I have not found time to talk with madduck about this yet (he is the old maintainer)
<lfittl> siretart: I know, it is a really useful library :)
<siretart> sivang: you don't really care about encrypted mails, eh? ;) - anyway, I updated your password and your access level
<sivang> siretart: did it arrive to you unencrypted?! O_o
<siretart> sivang: yes, it was signed only
<sivang> siretart: oh crap
<sivang> siretart: I'm a bit lost today :)
<siretart> lfittl: you should really talk to madduck soon, I read somewhere that he welcomes comaintainers
<sivang> I did clean sign instead of ascii armor
<sivang> clear, even
<siretart> lfittl: you can find him often on irc.oftc.net
<sivang> siretart: thanks, nonetheless
<lfittl> siretart: k, will try to talk to him tomorrow
<sivang> lfittl: I see you mentione on the changlog that the LDFLAGS and CFLAGS ftbs fixup was accepted upstream, why , then are you patching it in the package?
<lfittl> sivang: because the fix is not released, only commited in cvs
<sivang> lfittl: I see, okay, which means you will need to repack upstream source when they fix it :-)
<siretart> lfittl: alexandrescu is still working on it?
<sivang> huh?
<sivang> dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open ./debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory
<sivang> dpkg-source: error: syntax error in parsed version of changelog at line 0: empty file
<lfittl> siretart: he sometimes contributes new stuff, but the bug fixing is primarily done by Peter Kmmel, Richard Sposato and me (I work on the makefiles)
<sivang> -rw-r--r-- 1 sivan sivan 1879 2006-07-01 16:00 changelog
<siretart> lfittl: ah. I see
<sivang> this is in libloki-0.1.5/debian
<sivang> siretart: any idea? ^^
<sivang> siretart: (I downloaded that upstream tarball, and applied lfittl's diff to it and attempting a test build)
<sivang> hrm, this is the same with lfittl's source from REVU
<sivang> lfittl: did you have any trouble building it on your edgy?
<siretart> sivang: err, huh?
<sivang> siretart: weird issue with dpkg-parschangelog
<siretart> sivang: call it again from ..
<lfittl> sivang: I built it under dapper with an edgy pbuilder and it worked without any problem
<sivang> siretart: let me try
<sivang> libloki-test/libloki-0.1.5$ dpkg-parsechangelog
<sivang> Source: libloki
<sivang> Version: 0.1.5-0ubuntu2
<sivang> Distribution: edgy
<sivang> ....
<seaLne> is there a problem uploading to revu just now?
<sivang> works fine on its own
<sivang> doing so from debuild explodes
* sivang updates his chroot
<AnAnt> There is a package that I have uploaded before, I made some changes again to it. can I only upload the diff as I am on  a low bandwidth connection ?
<AnAnt> is anyone there ?
<phanatic> hi people
<sivang> lfittl: did you package the test directory as well? ( and have it usable from the debian package)
<lfittl> sivang: no, because some tests fail on non-x86 architectures
<sivang> lfittl: okay, how can I test the the package is operational after I have installed your packages ?
<sivang> lfittl: (like a small test prog , tomake sure linkage is okay etc)
<lfittl> sivang: you can't right now, but do you think it is necessary? (most library packages don't include test programs, only some include examples in an extra package)
<sivang> lfittl: well, I am not holding it as somethiing I want to see before I upload, just wanted to try it to see if we're uploading something that works or provides anything :-)
<sivang> lfittl: how do you make sure your packaging is right if you don't try to use the library as it's installed on your ubuntu systme?
<sivang> lfittl: (that is, to make sure stuff dynamically linked against it works)
<lfittl> sivang: I run the tests and use the includes and libraries from the system, instead of the ones included with the source
<lfittl> sivang: not the best solution, but I will improve this with future releases
<sivang> lfittl: cool, how can I do that as well?
<lfittl> sivang: you must change some parts of the makefile
<lfittl> sivang: change the first two lines of test/Makefile, simple remove -I../../include and -L../../lib
<sivang> lfittl: I need to leave export LDLIBS = -lloki
<sivang> lfittl: right?
<lfittl> yep
<sivang> k, sec
<sivang> yay, it builds
<lfittl> :)
<sivang> g++ --shared  -L. -o singletondll.dll singletondll.o -lfoo -lloki
<sivang> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lfoo
<sivang> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
<sivang> ^ ?
<sivang> this is when doing
<sivang> make[1] : Entering directory `/home/sivan/MOTU-review/libloki/libloki-0.1.5/test/SingletonDll'
<lfittl> hmm
<lfittl> how are you calling make?
<sivang> just make ;-)
<lfittl> from which directory?
<sivang> from the /test dir
<sivang> should I be doing this one level up?
<lfittl> if you call it from test you have to use "make OS=Linux"
<sivang> lfittl: ah :)
<lfittl> :)
<sivang> yay, seems to be working !
<lfittl> nice :)
<sivang> ./SmallObjBench is nice
<sivang> anyway, sign and upload now
<lfittl> thanks for testing, and also thanks for uploading ;)
<sivang> lfittl: I had pleasure doing so, this is REALLY interesting library
<lfittl> sivang: I know, hopefully more people will start using it, it really allows you to create complex programs more easily
<sivang> Successfully uploaded packages.
<sivang> Not running dinstall.
<sivang> lfittl: ^^
<lfittl> ^^
<sivang> lfittl: yes, let's hope more and more people will use it indeed :)
<lfittl> sivang: something different, do you know if the upstream version freeze on July 13th also applies to universe?
<sivang> lfittl: IIRC we try to keep it that way, but exceptions can be considered on a specific basis. Better talk to ogra or dhlobach wheren they are here
<sivang> or even siretart -
<sivang> siretart: ^^
<sivang> lfittl: packages is accepted, now just wait for it to bin build
<lfittl> yep, I know ;)
<sivang> lfittl: did you get confiramtion email ? :)
<lfittl> siretart: no, but I am subscribed to edgy-changes
<sivang> lfittl: ah, cool
<CarlFK> running for dumbest question of the day: I thought I started a wiki page describign how to build a .deb from src - like a generic version of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildingWineFromSource
<CarlFK> but now I can't find the page - anyone seen it?
<sivang> anyway, some weekend time is in place now
<sivang> laters all
<siretart> lfittl: yes, UVF freeze applies to all components of ubuntu
<lfittl> siretart: k, and completely new packages are accepted until feature freeze?
<siretart> jupp
<lfittl> good :)
<siretart> is Robin Sonefors around?
<ozamosi> siretart: yes, that's me.
<siretart> ozamosi: you are in the lp group?
<ozamosi> Yes.
<crimsun> I ought to trawl revu
<crimsun> there's a /huge/ backlog
<siretart> crimsun: got my email regarding b-m-p?
<crimsun> siretart: let me check e-mail; I may need it resent
<crimsun> siretart: I see it, reading now
<crimsun> siretart: sure, I'll handle the merge. Our orig.tar.gzs /should/ differ since the default skins are different.
<siretart> crimsun: I think this is unfortunate, since it confuses merging. if you could add a note about this in debian/changelog, perhaps I won't get confused next time ;)
<siretart> crimsun: btw, is there a debian bug about this?
<crimsun> siretart: well, I could just drop the Ubuntu skin altogether so we can revert to Debian packaging
<crimsun> I'm not terribly keen on maintaining extra deltas
* siretart neither. it costs ressources while merging
<siretart> reverting to debian is only possible if a new orig.tar.gz arrives at debian
<siretart> crimsun: perhaps it would be wise to reupload the orig.tar.gz with 'ubuntu' in its name (and adding a note in debian/changelog)
<siretart> crimsun: we do this with xine as well, in order to avoid confusion
<siretart> and debian is using 'dfsg' for this
<crimsun> no one has stated either way that the default skin in the Ubuntu packaging is pleasing or disgusting, so I'm inclined to just rework the orig.tar.gz (for clarification)
<crimsun> added to TODO
<ivoks> anyone interested in providing some feedback? :)
<ivoks> (non-HP printer required)
<Yagisan> ivoks: for what ?
<ozamosi> I'm trying to use motu-tools to sync a package, but I get an error message that seems to say that getSubjectFromWeb has a regex that doesn't match.
<ozamosi> Am I doing something wrong, or is something broken?
<ivoks> Yagisan: to test one dirty hack that should auto-install usb printers
<ivoks> Yagisan: it's a plain bash script
<Yagisan> ivoks: will it kill an existing usb printer setup on dapper ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: nope
<Yagisan> ivoks: ok. What would you like me to do. Should be a nice distraction from my cmake woes
<Yagisan> ?
<ivoks> Yagisan: well, first of all, what printer is that?
<Yagisan> ivoks: lsusb thinks it is "Bus 001 Device 003: ID 04a9:1056 Canon, Inc. BJC-2110 Color Printer" but the plastic badge says BJC-2100SP. cheap n nasty.
<ivoks> Yagisan: i tested this with HPs only, but i think it should work with non-HP too, that's why i need someone to test it :)
<ivoks> Yagisan: do you accept dcc?
<ozamosi> ...please? Somebody?
<lifeless> ozamosi: perhaps if you give some more detail
<ozamosi> python lpbugs.py -u -b 51526 -s Gives me "AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'"
<ozamosi> The traceback is here: http://pastebin.ca/76535
<ozamosi> What details do you want?
<lifeless> I want someone familiar with it to jump in and help ;)
<ozamosi> That's a valid wish ;)
<lifeless> Yagisan: any idea
<ozamosi> That's odd... The regex in the code searches for ", but launchpad has  - that's not the same character...
<Yagisan> lifeless: no. My python is almost non-existent.
<ozamosi> Ah, that fixed it!
<AnAnt> anyone here ?
<DanielC> I'm here :)
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> I uploaded a package before, and now I did some changes, can I just upload the diff file ?
* DanielC hopes that there is someone here who knows the answer to that...
<AnAnt> so do I
<crimsun> no, upload the entire source package again.
<AnAnt> k
<AnAnt> lionelp: you there ?
<lionelp> eh, how can AnAnt think that a french can be there during bresil-france :)
<tuxmaniac> :((
<lionelp> tuxmaniac: are you brasilian ?
<tuxmaniac> lionelp> nope.
<tuxmaniac> lionelp> Indian. Yesterday I wanted Argentina to win.. Today I wanted Brasil to win.
<Yagisan> ah, I can see the sunrise
<Yagisan> right then
<Yagisan> I'm off to bed
<Yagisan> bye all
<crimsun> 'morning :)
<_ion> Everyone loses.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-02
<LaserJock> hmm, pretty dead in here
<rob> bored?
<crimsun> some of us are at work :)
<crimsun> and spent an hour chasing down a difference between /bin/echo and bash's built-in echo
<rob> I'm going to the show shortly :)
<crimsun> rob: nice
<LaserJock> I just got home from shoping with the wife, etc.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<LaserJock> bddebian: how's it going?
<bddebian> OK, I guess, thanks.  You?
<LaserJock> bddebian: not bad, trying to read *all* my email
* tseng looks at the thread "Tracker in Edgy" and dies slowly
<bddebian> tseng: :)
<tseng> I will try not to go on swearing for the next hour
<bddebian> Ah, go ahead :-)
<tseng> I would go so far as to say Beagle should be the alternative to Tracker
<tseng> as Tracker uses nearly no memory in comparison
<tseng> brilliant deduction
<tseng> it doesnt even have its own ui, only a nautilus patch
<LaserJock> tseng: I wouldn't worry too much
<tseng> I am not worried, I am frustrated
<LaserJock> ah, well then I can understand that
<Erlang> why?
<LaserJock> although I've never found beagle very useful, it seems much more mature than tracker
<tseng> have you read the thread?
<tseng> it starts out "woo blue sky idea, someone please do my work for me"
<tseng> and ends with hypothetical corner cases deep in the kernel
<tseng> courtesy of John Moser
<Erlang> many threads kinda end up that way on tech mailing lists.  I did not pay much attention, but I see your point.
<tseng> I will just refrain from replying as it has gone into reiser4 fanboing
<LaserJock> yeah, there was like only 1 or 2 emails in the thread that actually had anything to do with tracker/beagle
<zakame> huhu
<LaserJock> hi zakame
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<zakame> hi LazerJock bddebian! =)
<zakame> looks like I'll be in Manila longer than usual
<bddebian> Oh?
<Hobbsee> hi all
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch_
<zul> hey
<zakame> heya Hobbsee
<zakame> hey zul
<Hawkwind> Hey ya Hobbsee, bddebian and zul
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<Hobbsee> hi Hawkwind
<zul> anyone running edgy on amd64?
<zul> if they are wanna test something for me? ;)
* Hobbsee isnt
<bddebian> Heya Hawkwind, zul
<Hawkwind> zul: Not I, or I'd test it for ya
* Hobbsee is still repairing her system.
<bddebian> I still need to get an amd64 box :-(
* zakame will be looking for one today
<zul> hmmm...must fiddle with qemu then
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon
<TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya ( /me kicks osx )
<imbrandon> hey TheMuso
<imbrandon> any irssi gurus in here ?
<LaserJock> just a casual user here
<imbrandon> heh whats the file that stores the default nickname and default server
<imbrandon> and autojoin chans etc
<LaserJock> .irrsi/config
<imbrandon> cool thanks
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<imbrandon> bah i hate kern updates, brb
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Gloubiboulga> morning
<Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> anyone feel like uploading something for me?
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, sure
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: thanks :) uploading in a sec - forgot to debsign it
<Gloubiboulga> ok
* Hobbsee sets an alias for debsign, to actually include the darn key!
* Hobbsee pokes revu
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right, it's uploaded, will grab you teh link in a sec
<Hobbsee> oh, stupid dput!  it didnt upload the .orig.tar.gz!
<Gloubiboulga> poor dput ;)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kdiff3/kdiff3_0.9.90.orig.tar.gz is the .orig.tar.gz.
<Gloubiboulga> I think dput only does what he's asked to do :p
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, ok
<Hobbsee> it should have uploaded them all with the .changes file.
<Gloubiboulga> have you use scott's merge-buildpackage?
<Gloubiboulga> used*
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yes
<Hobbsee> or hang on, did i use that, or his genchanges?
* Yagisan waves hello
<Gloubiboulga> hi Yagisan
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: want me to use teh buildpackage, and reupload?
<Yagisan> meh - I lost a day.
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, as you want
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: it doesnt matter to me - that way has worked before.  revu package is at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2572
* Gloubiboulga looks
<Hobbsee> thanks Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, the .diff.gz is really big
* Hobbsee looks
<Gloubiboulga> there's a lot of .pot file changes, but maybe it's normal for KDE apps (I don't know how translations work for you)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: two upstream releases between this and the last ubuntu release - that got anything to do with it?
<Hobbsee> but you're right, there are
<Gloubiboulga> the debian diff is smaller
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: wow, it's way smaller.  i'm not sure what happened there
<Gloubiboulga> maybe a MoM 'bug'
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: the debian patch is huge, too
<Gloubiboulga> yes, cause the ubuntu and debian diff.gz are really different
<Hobbsee> why?
* Hobbsee is kinda lost now.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: sheesh!  the debian patch is bigger than the .orig.tar.gz!
<Gloubiboulga> yes...
<Gloubiboulga> I'd just apply the changes manually to keep the diff as small as possible with debian
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, i'm not really confident with that patch now - it looked okay to me before, but...something seems to have borked
<Gloubiboulga> hello raphink
<Hobbsee> hi raphink
<raphink> yop Gloubiboulga && Hobbsee
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, I think so too
* Hobbsee tries not to pass out.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: what, as in, grab the debian source, do the patches manually, then upload it?
<Hobbsee> do i still use the merge-buildpackage?
* Hobbsee damn well REFUSES to pass out!
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, yes, do that and run merger-buildpackage
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: merger-buildpackage?
<Hobbsee> what's that?
<Gloubiboulga> it will generate a very nice source.changes including all the debian hcanges
* Hobbsee only knew about a merge-buildpackage
<Gloubiboulga> err, merge-buildpackage (typo)
<Hobbsee> right :P
<Gloubiboulga> use grab-merge.sh to get the source
<Gloubiboulga> s
<Hobbsee> yep
<AnAnt> lionelp: are you there ?
<lionelp> Yes :)
<lionelp> Sorry, yesterday I was away
<lionelp> and night, I was in front of my TV for brazil-france :)
<lionelp> AnAnt ?
<lionelp> Oh, you have just uploaded kchmviewer
<AnAnt> lionelp: yup
<AnAnt> lionelp: did u see what I said yesterday ?
<AnAnt> lionelp: also I fixed something in freedict
<lionelp> I saw, but I dot not remember anymore
<AnAnt> lionelp: regarding kchmviewer, the difference between my package & the one in Debian is that mine doesn't need KDE, ie. builds against QT only
<lionelp> yep, I just scroll to see what you told yesterday
<AnAnt> lionelp: I wish I know how to make several variants, ie add a variant to compile against QT only, and leave the original variant which compiles against KDE, but I am still weak in packaging
<lionelp> KDE support is useless ?
<Hobbsee> AnAnt:  um, why do you want to make a QT package only?  which of the KDE packages were involved in making the KDE version?
<Hobbsee> what does debian/control say for each version?  (in particular, the deps and build-deps)
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: it's the build-deps that are different in the source package
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: which build-deps?
* Hobbsee is a KDE-ish person.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: libqt3-mt-dev
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: libqt3-mt-dev  in my package
<Hobbsee> yep
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: kdelibs4-dev in the original package
<AnAnt> original=Debian
* AnAnt is anti-KDE person.
<AnAnt> lionelp: yes, it is not needed
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: it does provide useful features
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: as what ?
<raphink> programs built with with qt look horrible
<Hobbsee>  However, it may be compiled
<Hobbsee>  with full KDE support, including KDE widgets and KIO/KHTML.
<raphink> and they don't have all the functionalities from KDE
<raphink> just as Hobbsee said
<lionelp> Hi raphink :)
<raphink> if this program is called Kchmviewer, it's because it's aimed to be built in KDE
<raphink> hi lionelp
<Hobbsee> interesting that the ubuntu version only needs kdelibs4c2a...
<AnAnt> as for freedict, I added an arabic-english dictionary (from ftp.dict.org)
<raphink> AnAnt: if you're anti-kde, I suggest you port the program to gtk
<raphink> instead of preventing KDE people from using the KDE programs to the full
<AnAnt> raphink: I wish I know how to do so
<raphink> there are guides to learn gtk
<raphink> :)
<AnAnt> raphink: well, that's why I want to add a variant in the control file with compiles against QT only, but dunno how
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: for those kde haters, it's not that hard to grab the source, pull out the kde dep, and recompile it.
<raphink> yes
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: that would require two packages, unless you used an | i guess
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: what | are you talking about ?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: yes, I want to do like VIM for example, it can create several binary packages
<raphink> Hobbsee: no that does require to build two packages
<Hobbsee> raphink: ah okay
<raphink> AnAnt: your package will still need to build-depend on kdelibs
<raphink> since you'll be using it for one of the two binaries
<Hobbsee> raphink: you cant do a b-d on kdelibs4c2a|libqt3-mt-dev?
<Hobbsee> good point
<AnAnt> oh yes !
<raphink> ;)
<AnAnt> can't I do kdelibs4c2a|libqt3-mt-dev ?
<raphink> well that works if you build your package in your env
<raphink> but not in a pbuilder
<Hobbsee> presumably that only works for deps, not build-deps
<raphink> like sbuilder/pbuilder
<Hobbsee> ah yes
<raphink> it makes no sense for build-deps
<raphink> because you can't choose the one to use in a pbuilder/sbuilder
<AnAnt> why not for pbuilder ?
<raphink> and this is what is gonna be used to build the package eventually
<raphink> AnAnt: because you just give it the .dsc and it builds
<AnAnt> raphink: so ?
<raphink> so the package has to be clear as to which build-deps to use
<AnAnt> raphink: it will build the 2 variants, right ?
<raphink> no
<raphink> it will grab the first working lib
<raphink> in that case, kdelibs4c2a
<AnAnt> raphink: why does it build several variants in VIM then ?
<raphink> and not the second one, since the rule says |
<raphink> AnAnt: because there are several packages defined in debian/control
<raphink> and rules to build all the variants in debian/rules
<AnAnt> raphink: well, I want to do that too
<AnAnt> raphink: I just don't understand what to do in the rules file
<raphink> and debian/*.install files to tell which file goes in which package
<raphink> AnAnt: grab the vim package and study it ;)
<AnAnt> hmmm
* raphink has to run to the church :)
<Hobbsee> raphink: enjoy :)
<raphink> thanks
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: if you were to do that, you'd have to build two files, whihc is more inconvenient than building one.  then again, you'd only install one presumably
<Hobbsee> it's still confusing.
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: fine, I'm satisfied in building two files, it's a one time thing
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: but I see it is a nice feature to have 2 variants, one for KDE/QT, another for QT only
<Hobbsee> and doing updates for it, at infinitum, i think
<Hobbsee> maybe not
<Hobbsee> maybe the next maintainer would just axe the qt only port.
<Hobbsee> hmmm
<Hobbsee> AnAnt: you an ex-gentoo user, by any chance?
<AnAnt> Hobbsee: nope
<crimsun> is there are a large prospective userbase for the Qt-only package?
<AnAnt> crimsun: dunno
<antinobody> hello motuies
<crimsun> hi
<antinobody> hi crimsun
<Hobbsee> hi antinobody
<antinobody> hey Hobbsee
<antinobody> how goes along the merging?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: one that seems to have borked, otherwise okay :)
* Hobbsee was out before
<antinobody> Hobbsee: I'm told to ask you about merge-o-matic?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: you got told that by the edgychanges link?  glad someone reads it
<Hobbsee> antinobody: yes, there is a mergeomatic, it makes our lives much easier for merging
<antinobody> Hobbsee: What is it, exactly?
<Hobbsee> antinobody: merges.ubuntu.com
<antinobody> Hobbsee: right, like the link in the topic
<Hobbsee> antinobody: yep, that's it
* Hobbsee is tryign to get a copy of the history file associated with what keybuk told me.
<Hobbsee> then again, it would be on the logs, to
<Hobbsee> o
<Hobbsee> !logs
<Hobbsee> ah
<crimsun> people/~fabbione/irclogs/
<Hobbsee> yep
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs Hobbsee 
* Hobbsee hugs Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Hobbsee> antinobody: just grabbing the log of it now, and condensing it a bit
<antinobody> Hobbsee: How does one update the thing?  When a merge is finished, is there a mechanism for reporting that?  I remember something about a bug report...
<Hobbsee> antinobody: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-2006-06-30.html - start where keybuk says "Hobbsee: in case nobody's said already, could you use the -v<last_version_in_Ubuntu> option to debuild when building merged uploads.."
<Hobbsee> antinobody: poke a MOTU to upload it for you, or file a bug about it, assign it to MOTU reviewers
<antinobody> Hobbsee: thanky
<Hobbsee> antinobody: oh, and upload to REVU
<antinobody> right, right
<lfittl> If I want to help with merging, how can I request a sync if I am no MOTU?
<Hobbsee> lfittl: ping a motu, like maybe StevenK?
<Hobbsee> or just ask if there's anyone who wants to review a package
<lfittl> Hobbsee: k
<StevenK> Hey, no dobbing me in.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: :P
<DanielC> I just made a .deb for edgy; and 'debuild' gave me the error "bad-distribution-in-changes-file edgy"
<DanielC> Isn't it called "edgy"?
<siretart> DanielC: it is, but lintian isn't updated yet
<DanielC> Ok. So this warning is safe to ignore?
<DanielC> lintian also says "no-copyright-file". But I do have a debian/copyright file. :(
<DanielC> How about this lintian error: package-uses-debhelper-but-lacks-build-depends ?
<DanielC> This package doesn't have any dependencies.
<StevenK> Lintian is talking about Build-Depends, not Depends, there.
<StevenK> They should appear in the first stanza in debian/control if the package needs anything more than build-essential to build.
<DanielC> Ok... so should I add a Build-Depends and leave it blank?
<StevenK> No, Build-Depends: debhelper
<DanielC> The package doesn't need anything to build.
<DanielC> Ok...
<StevenK> Evidently, it needs debhelper.
<DanielC> I'm using debhelper (the dh_*) files.
<DanielC> I mean..., I'm suing the dh_* helper scripts.
<DanielC> You might notice that this is my first time making a .deb file :)
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> debhelper isn't build-essential, so you need to Build-Depends on it explicity.
<DanielC> Ok. I guess I got confused by the fact that this package isn't even compilable software; it's just documentation...
<DanielC> But I guess that in this context build doesn't imply "compile".
<DanielC> I just ran debuilder again. Problem fixed. Thanks!
<_ion> You should build the packages with pbuilder/sbuild (i.e. using a chroot) in order to find problems with build-deps.
* DanielC is running 'pbuilder create' now...
<jsgotangco> yay
<DanielC> what does pbuilder create do? I just know that pbuilder told me to run that.
<DanielC> Ok, I think I understand now, based on the man page... let's see... the best way to build Debian packages is through a chroot environment. I take that to mean that it's a directory with a minimalist Debian installation in which you chroot.
<DanielC> and `pbuilder create` will create this directory.
<DanielC> Am I close?
<Gloubiboulga_> yes
<DanielC> Ok, I'm learning :)
<DanielC> Where can I find this directory?
<Gloubiboulga_> it creates a chroot then tgz it to use it again when you run 'pbuilder buil'
<Gloubiboulga_> if you've not changed the default config the .tgz is stored in /var/cache/pbuilder
<DanielC> Ok, I see it. It's base.tgz
<Gloubiboulga_> yes
<DanielC> I wonder how I managed to put a file in there without being root...  pbuilder doesn't have the suid bit set...
<DanielC> stupid me, I was root.
<Gloubiboulga_> hehe
* _ion _always_ uses sudo, so he never accidentally runs stuff as root.
<DanielC> So do I...  but I actually used 'sudo' this time... that's why it's embarrassing.
<DanielC> I pressed the "up" arrow key, and edited a command that had used 'sudo' before.
<DanielC> Do you normally run pbuilder as root or as a regular user? The packaging guide has "sudo" on it.
<DanielC> But I'm surprised that you'd need root privileges to make debs.
<Gloubiboulga_> you can set up pbuilder to run it as a user, but I always uses 'sudo pbuilder'
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> Any reason for that?
<Gloubiboulga_> yes, laziness ;)
<DanielC> ok :)
<lfittl> does somebody have time to request a sync for 44 packages that I just checked? (really simple ones, just build-dep fixes for dapper that were also fixed in debian)
<StevenK> I run pdebuild, which then execs sudo pbuilder
<DanielC> Does anyone know what this pbuild warning means:  warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)
<StevenK> DanielC: It's harmless
<DanielC> Ok, thanks.
<StevenK> DanielC: It comes from dpkg, I think
<DanielC> Ok, the LOGNAME message was the only error (but it got printed many times). Does that mean that my package works correctly? (although debuilder gave other errors like "no-copyright-file", etc?)
<Gloubiboulga_> if you find a .deb in /var/cache/pbuilder/result it worked
<DanielC> Well, I knew that it "worked" before in the sense that it made a .deb and the .deb installed correctly.
<Gloubiboulga_> using pbuilder?
<DanielC> But debuilder threw a few warnings that I figured I should correct. Like, it thinks I have no copyright file.
<DanielC> Yes, pbuilder produced a .deb
<Gloubiboulga_> ok
<DanielC> I haven't tried the .deb from pbuilder, but I guess it should work too.
<Gloubiboulga_> I guess
<jsgotangco> best to try it out to know =)
* DanielC removes the old package to try the one from pbuilder
<DanielC> works
<DanielC> Is there a way to prevent the creation of the directory /usr/share/doc/{$package} ?
<DanielC> The .debs always create this directory and it ends up empty except for the changelog file.
<Gloubiboulga_> you should find the copyright file in the directory too
<DanielC> nope
* DanielC remembers how debuilder complained about not finding a copyright file.
<Gloubiboulga_> then lintian is right :)
<DanielC> :)
<Gloubiboulga_> do you have a debian/copyright file in your sources ?
<DanielC> yes
<Gloubiboulga_> hmm
<Gloubiboulga_> and do you call dh_installdocs in your rules?
<DanielC> ah
* DanielC adds dh_installdocs
<Gloubiboulga_> :)
<Gloubiboulga_> it will install the copyright file
<Gloubiboulga_> *always* use it
<DanielC> Ok, now it installs the copyright file. And I learnt something new today :)
<DanielC> Now lintian says:  copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl
<DanielC> How do I make the copyright file do that?
<Gloubiboulga_> you can look at some other copyright files ;)
<DanielC> Yes, I'm looking at the debian-policy copyright file... but I can't see anything...
<Gloubiboulga_> look at the last paragraph of the file
<Gloubiboulga_> "On debian systems..."
<dooglus> speedy: make /etc/iftab with lines like:  eth0 mac 00:00:11:22:33:44
<dooglus> spacey: then it will always use the same interface names
<dooglus> um - speedy
<dooglus> wow - wrong channel, wrong nick... just wrong!
<DanielC> Gloubiboulga_: Got it, thanks. None of the sample sources I had here had that line, but I got the sources for gaim and that one did have it.
<Gloubiboulga_> DanielC, great
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Gloubiboulga_> wb Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Gloubiboulga_ :)
<Gloubiboulga_> what time is it for you Hobbsee?
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 02 2006, 21:09:24
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga_: not late ^
<Gloubiboulga_> ok :)
<DanielC> Is there a way to change the default doc install to something other than /usr/share/doc/{$package} ?
<tseng> no
<DanielC> ok
<_ion> Fortunately.
<tseng> right.
<DanielC> ?
<DanielC> I just didn't want to pollute the user's ../doc/ directory with many directories that are related. I thought they should all be in one common directory.
<tseng> if they arent the same source package
<tseng> they arent related
<DanielC> ok...
<DanielC> A good example of this would be if we wanted to put all the OpenOffice.org documentation files in the same directory (/usr/share/doc/openoffice.org/).
<DanielC> Is this sort of thing "not done" ?
<tseng> no, it isnt.
<DanielC> Ok.
* DanielC goes and fixes his .deb files
* Yagisan waves hello.
<tseng> hi Yagisan
<DanielC> hi
<ajmitch> hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> how is everyone today ?
<sivang> @time Israel
<Ubugtu> Current time in Israel: July 02 2006, 14:36:21
<sivang> yay
<sivang> Ubugtu: you are getting smarter on a daily basis!
* Yagisan discovered that right after he committed his new non-functional cmake based build system, he instantly got bug reports, but no patches
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh
* StevenK waves to ajmitch.
<StevenK> ajmitch: How is sunny downtown western Sydney?
<ajmitch> good evening StevenK
<ajmitch> sunny?
<ajmitch> where's this 'sun' you talk of?
* ajmitch has seen more sun in canberra
<StevenK> Sleeping, at the moment.
<ajmitch> figures
<ajmitch> typical australian :)
<DanielC> How can I find out if a package is installed by default in Ubuntu?
<Lathiat> rdepends it
<Lathiat> see if any of the ubuntu meta packages depend on it
<Lathiat> ?
<Lathiat> its a little more complex than that but it'd give you an idea?
<DanielC> Ok, that should work... thanks.
<Lathiat> or try apt-get remove it and see if ubuntu-desktop wants to go
<Lathiat> :)
<DanielC> :)
<\sh> or just ask
<zanaga> I'm trying to get python-lxml to work on edgy. It's in depwait and waiting for pyrex and python-setuptools, so i merged the changes from debian. Is there a place to dump them to so you guys don't need to redo the work.
<\sh> ajmitch: sorry to ask, but where can I see who is doing which merges_
<ajmitch> \sh: currently, I don't know - people have been taking ones that they've touched last
<\sh> ajmitch: grmpf...because I have to stop some people taking sip4, pyqt, pykde etc.
<ajmitch> hm, why is that?
<\sh> ajmitch: because they are ready on my laptop :
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> get someone to upload them asap
<ajmitch> StevenK looks to be volunteering
<\sh> oh stevenk has main rights? :)
<ajmitch> not that I know.. darn
<\sh> or I just wait for tuesday
<ajmitch> yeah
<DanielC> Ok, mono-common does not "rdepend" on ubuntu-desktop (or almost anything) so that means mono is probably not installed by default?
<ajmitch> no, it's not currently
<DanielC> Ok, thanks.
<\sh> or I could adjust grab_merge with our lpmerge script
<StevenK> I do not have main rights.
<StevenK> If you're volunteering to bestow them on them....
<StevenK> Er, s/them on them/them on me/
<ajmitch> night all
<Gloubiboulga> night ajmitch
<AnAnt> do openssl & gnutls conflict with each other ?
<tseng> not that I can see
<tseng> Conflicts: ssleay (<< 0.9.2b), libssl, openssl (<< 0.9.6-2), libssl096-dev (<< 0.9.6-2)
<tseng> Conflicts: gnutls0, gnutls0.4
<tseng> just with old versions of themselves
<lifeless> check provides
<lifeless> but I would not expect them to conflict
<AnAnt> tseng: is it preferrable to compile packages against openssl or gnutls ?
<\sh> depends on the license
<AnAnt> \sh: the software supports both
<\sh> AnAnt: there was something with licenses of openssl
<Hobbsee> hiya \sh
<bmonty> openssl requires that you put a notification that the software is linked with openssl
* Hobbsee wishes whoever is bashing her head with a large brick STOPS!
<bmonty> Hobbsee: just start drinking again :)
<\sh> hey Hobbsee.how is life?
<Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi bmonty \sh and Yagisan
<Hobbsee> \sh: good, ajmitch is over here at the mometn :)
* Hobbsee looks for the info on how to upload the key to the keyserver.
<\sh> Hobbsee: ajmitch is next to you? ;)
<\sh> gpg --send-key
* Hobbsee is now all official
<\sh> gpg --send-key <your keyid>
<Hobbsee> \sh: not anymore
<Hobbsee> \sh: i dropped him back at the hotel
<tseng> poor guy
<Hobbsee> \sh: thanks :)
<tseng> all that dropping makes for a sore bum
<Hobbsee> tseng: heh, yeah, having to put up with me
<\sh> Hobbsee: couldn't he sleep outside in front of your house? ;)
<Hobbsee> \sh: hahaha
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you didn't let him stay. poor guy.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: i live with parents, remember?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: so did my wife. It didn't stop me >:)
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: but, yeah, I can see how that makes things hard
* Hobbsee rolls her eyes.
* Yagisan takes notes for when his kids get older
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: ohh, they are all white now.
<Hobbsee> they are?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: your eyes
* Hobbsee rolls them again
<Hobbsee> right.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you'll meet one of my monsters^Wangels tomorrow
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe, so i hear
<Hobbsee> i hear i'm allowed to come :P
<\sh> oh keysigning down under ;)
* \sh signs now madducks key
<Hobbsee> \sh: no, ajmitch did that earlier
<Hobbsee> he said my licence didnt look much like me though :P
<Yagisan> \sh: you can sign mine, but I'll need to post the details to you ;)
<\sh> Yagisan: hehe...next ubuntu conf? whereever it is
* Yagisan tries to fit in the envelope and fails
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: you're really working with an unsigned key?
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: yeah. most people here mett me at UDU, but that was with my old key, before a expensive problem occurred
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah right.  get ajmitch to sign it tomorrow?
<Yagisan> yep.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: possibly you too
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: me to sign?  could be done
<Yagisan> \sh: when I can next afford it, I'll see you at an ubuntu conf
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: why not ?
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: didnt think i could sign
<\sh> Yagisan: yeah, when I can afford it, right, that was the problem ;)
<Yagisan> brb - kids
<_ion> SIGCHLD
<Hobbsee> hehe
<\sh> oh my, they are shooting here..
<Hobbsee> they what?
<\sh> bombs, canons i don't know
<\sh> a war in germany
<mc__> hi,what knowledge is needed to become a motu?
<Hobbsee> eek
<_ion> Hmm, SIGCHLD wouldn't really be so funny, as it means the child just terminated. :-)
<\sh> mc__: debian packaging skills, coding knowledge
<Hobbsee> mc__: there's a link on wiki.ubuntu.com about it IIRC.
<\sh> ok..now my key has a photo id as well :)
<\sh> if anyone has time, and can have a look over kbilliards on revu, would be nice :)
<AnAnt> what's the difference (in functionality) between openssl & gnutls ? I mean, is there some protocols supported in openssl but not in gnutls ?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> moins bddebian
<bmonty> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi \sh, bmonty
<Hobbsee> hi bddebian
<bddebian> and Hobbsee again ;-)
<Hobbsee> :P
<bmonty> do we want to keep around CXX transition packages? debian fam has a libfam0c012 that depends on libfam0 which is the real package, we dropped libfam0c102 in ubuntu
<Yagisan> re
<\sh> bmonty: I would get rid of it
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: you can sign the key of anyone whose identity you can establish to your satisfaction
<\sh> bmonty: I wonder why debian has it still
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah right
<bmonty> \sh: I don't know, I thought about getting rid of it, but I don't think it hurts, and we can sync the package instead of keeping a -ubuntu version
<\sh> Hobbsee: did oyu read madducks blog (or debian planet) about his experiement with his ID of the "Transnational Republic"?
<Hobbsee> \sh: no
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on...maybe
<Yagisan> \sh: I saw it on DD
<Hobbsee> i'd have to have the link to check
<Yagisan> \sh: it was a valid id, just not a government id
<\sh> Hobbsee: http://blog.madduck.net/geek/2006.05.24-tr-id-at-keysigning
<Yagisan> \sh: like eg a student id card
<\sh> Yagisan: no...it's a real ID from the transnational republic...no faked user data actually...
<\sh> Yagisan: I signed madducks key just because of that ;)
<\sh> Yagisan: http://www.transnationalrepublic.org/ :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> the idea of keysigning etc is kinda flawed anyway - ditto ID for proof of age for cigarettes, pubs, clubs, etc
<\sh> the problem with keysigning is, I could give you an ID card from my government, but can you assure that it's really me? or just another stephan hermann with the same face?
<dsas> It's just a question of whether or not you trust the TR to totally check madducks passport.
<Yagisan> \sh: I didn't say it was fake, I just said it was like a student id card.
<dsas> it's like me signing hobsees key because ajmitch says it's right.
<Hobbsee> it's exactly like me accepting a NZ driving licence with a birthdate that could well be fake, cos i've not seen NZ drivers licences apart from work before - but we have to accept them, as a drivers licence
<\sh> dsas: I am trusting madduck, because we said something before we met, and that was the point...and that's why I don't do any keysigning party anymore..because I don't know the people...I never talked to them...
<Hobbsee> true
<dsas> \sh: That's a good stance to take.
* Hobbsee didnt have a clue about the keysigning, really
* Hobbsee just asked, then typed what she was told to type
<tseng> you shouldnt freely admit that :)
<Hobbsee> well, yeah
<tseng> sortof defeats the purpose
<Hobbsee> shhh :P
<Hobbsee> no, like i figured out the email based stuff later
<\sh> dsas: but I talked to all the people I signed keys with...so I am sure, that they are who they said they are. It's so easy to get a forged ID card nowadays, and I'm not able to check if the ID is real or not...
<Hobbsee> but the actual getting the fingerprint, i pretty much stuck my laptop next to his so he could type his in
<Hobbsee> \sh: exactly.  i dont even want to think about what'll happen with work when we take the first incorrect ID and they find out.
<dsas> \sh: If you talk to someone and know them and you're just using the ID as validation then that's fine. If you're *only* relying on the ID then as you point out, you're less sure that they're telling the truth.
<Yagisan> I need to meet people before signing keys, but as long as I'm sure they are who they say they are, I'll sign. after all, I just vouch they are who they say are, not that they are a good person.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: my fingerprint is on my business cards.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: so you can validate it at home
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe, that's true.  that's like at work "i vouch that i saw that the counting of the drawer was done at this time.  i in no way, shape, or form say it's accurate"
<Hobbsee> true
* Hobbsee was surprised actually - dad didnt think i was crazy when i told him i'd got my key signed.
* \sh needs some business cards, too
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: to be honest, I never do keysigning on a pc at the meet
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: fair enough
<Yagisan> I'll check the fingerprint @ home, them do it from my box
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: so, if I bring a kid that looks like me - is that proof of who I say I am ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee figured that she had *all* of her ID here, so may as well do it
<tseng> signing after the meet doesnt buy you mich imo
<tseng> much
<Yagisan> nope, but I don't have to use someone elses laptop to do so.
* Yagisan is too broke to get his own
<tseng> someone elses laptop is different
<\sh> and if you do it at home, nobody can watch over your shoulder when you type your passphrase ;)
<Hobbsee> true
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: You see 3 people got spam again today, 2 of which were me and you :(
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yeah, i thought i saw that.  i created a new filter for it, but it didnt want to filter.  i've had that spam before, and i'm not exactly sure why they're getting our emails in particular
<Hawkwind> Strange.  I tried to filter it as well and couldn't get it to.  I'm wondering if it comes through again if it will filter then or not as there are times I can't get things to filter on the original version
<Yagisan> woot. I figured out what was wrong with cmake
<bddebian> Yagisan: What was it/
<bddebian> ?
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: i've had about 6 of them
<Yagisan> bddebian: it wasn't emitting my defines (-DFOO stuff) correctly
<bddebian> Ah
<Yagisan> bddebian: we now crash and burn on one of my errors instead now :)
<bddebian> hehe
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: All 6 of them have been the same and they still won't filter you mean ?
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yeah, but i didnt try filtering them
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Ah ok.  Well hopefully we don't get anymore, or these filter from now on
<Hobbsee> yeah
<bddebian> OK, ajunta is really starting to piss me off
<Hawkwind> Heh, anjuta is a royal pain at best
<bddebian> I had good luck with it in dapper but it's killing me in edgy for some reason
<sivang> bddebian: what are you trying to do with it?
<bddebian> Build the new version from Debian
<sivang> bddebian: ah :)
<sivang> bddebian: I thought you were having issues creating autoconf cruft for your program using it ;)
<bddebian> Nah, I don't actually USE any of the programs I build ;-)
<sivang> bddebian: you see, there's the problem :-)))
<bddebian> One of many :-)
<bddebian> Ahhhh, #Q@$RQ$#^T56.   libwnck-dev 2.15 doesn't have libwnck-1.la
* Yagisan feels bddebian's pain
<\sh> anyone care to upload one merge?
<\sh> bddebian: you care,right ?
<bddebian> Not anymore ;-P
<\sh> please
<bddebian> Sure bud, what you need?
<\sh> http://archive.linux-server.org/
<\sh> the kdiff source packages
<\sh> and do a debuild -S -v0.9.88-5ubuntu2 -sa -k<your keyid>
<\sh> in the source dir :) thx :)
<\sh> merged, tested and works
<bddebian> \sh: Do I really need the -vblah ?
<\sh> bddebian: yes...last version is 0.9.88-5ubuntu2 :)
<\sh> so we need to provide the last 2 changelog entries since 0.9.88-5ubuntu2 :)
<bddebian> Ah
<bddebian> \sh: uploading
<\sh> bddebian: thx a lot
<bddebian> \sh: No, thank YOU :-)
<\sh> bddebian: care to take another one?
<\sh> looks like I'm on drugs again ;)
<sivang> are those main uploads ?:)
<\sh> no
<\sh> the main ones are laying still on my laptop :)
<sivang> :)
<\sh> so if anyone wants to take it
<bddebian> \sh: Sure
<\sh> bddebian: again on archive.linux-server.org
<\sh> afterstep
* bddebian isn't "good enough" for main
<\sh> debuild -S -v2.1.2-3ubuntu1 -sa -k<your id> ;)
<\sh> oh no..wait
<\sh> shit...
<\sh> I'm stupid
<sivang> \sh: sponsering upload worked for me without doing -k, is it mandatory ?
<bddebian> Uh oh too late
<\sh> damn
<\sh> too fast...
<\sh> ok...let's hope for another version from debian upstream *grmpf* it should be a sync
<\sh> bddebian: thx
<bddebian> Sorry
<bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> heya bddebian
<\sh> bddebian: no...my fault :)
<tuxmaniac> bo
<\sh> bddebian: I didn't see the tree because of the forrest ;)
<\sh> my change on afterstep went upstream
<\sh> I need to learn this new mom system...it's different from older times
<\sh> ok...laters crew...need to go for a while
<sivang> laters \sh
<\sh> alps-light1 is a sync, I requested it
<\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alps-light1/+bug/51608
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51608 in alps-light1 "sync request of alps-light1_1.2.2-2 from debian unstable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<\sh> ok..gone
<bddebian> Later \sh
* Yagisan dances a little jig
<Amaranth> so i take it python2.5-* will never exist?
<Amaranth> now i feel stupid about using python2.4-* in depends :P
* bluefoxicy wonders about rewriting glob2 and nexuiz with cdbs and submitting a glob2 0.8.19 and nexuiz 2.0 package
<azeem> bluefoxicy: what's the problem with the current packages?
* tseng wonders how bluefoxicy turned a thread about tracker into rambling about obscure kernel corner cases
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  lol I know :P
<bluefoxicy> azeem:  oh, I just hate old-school debian/rules with 500 lines of dh_*; plus the nexuiz on REVU is 1.2 and 2.0 is out (and has awesome shit like a campaign mode et al)
<bluefoxicy> (also I found at least on windows that Nexuiz 2.0 gets 60fps with the same set of effects that 1.5 got 20fps with)
<azeem> I thought you were talking about the packages in unstable
<tseng> rewriting a package with cdbs is pretty shit
<tseng> if it isnt your package
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  pisses the maintainers off too much?
<tseng> we'll end up with a huge diff and possibly an angry DD
<bluefoxicy> DD?
<tseng> debian developer
<bluefoxicy> oh
<tseng> and an angry ubuntu dev every time he has to sync to debian
<tseng> and merge your crazy huge diff
<bluefoxicy> debian packages can't use CDBS?
<tseng> please don't do it.
<tseng> they can, if the maintainer wants them to
<azeem> Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
<tseng> we aren't in the business of repackaging things
<bluefoxicy> azeem:  does debian even have nexuiz?  I thought that went straight at REVU
<azeem> I was quoting from its control file in unstable
<azeem> [2006-06-27]  Accepted 2.0-1 in unstable (low) (Bruno Fuddl Kleinert)
<azeem> pretty recent addition
<bluefoxicy> sweet.
<bluefoxicy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1634 was the last I saw
<azeem> sounds like the same guy
<bluefoxicy> lol@revu:  FSF address is out of date  <-- I copied the FSF address on there from debian/license in gzip or something
* bluefoxicy guesses he'll re-upload paxutils later.. when he remembers how
<lionelp> bluefoxicy: oh, I made comments on paxutils
<lionelp> I may have writent "FSF address is out of date" :)
<lionelp> because she is :)
<lionelp> I know that lot of documents are still comporting the old address
<lionelp> but you can write the good one in debian.copyright
* azeem doesn't think that is very important
* bluefoxicy will get to it
<ryanakca> yay! I finished putting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool in alphabetical order!
<\sh> re
<\sh> tseng: ping
<tseng> \sh: hi
<\sh> tseng: can you do me a favour and approve https://launchpad.net/bugs/51608
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51608 in alps-light1 "[not dev]  sync request of alps-light1_1.2.2-2 from debian unstable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<\sh> keybuk doesn't trust my senses ;)
<tseng> I am worthy of approving things?
<tseng> oh
<\sh> tseng: it needs a motu to say "yes, please, sync it's ok what \sh wrote"
<tseng> you kicked yourself out of motu
<tseng> right
<\sh> tseng: yes
<shawarma> At UDS, dholbach talked about trying to postpone uvf for universe. Does anyone know the status on that?
* tseng looks
<\sh> tseng: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/alps-light1/REPORT
<tseng> no
<tseng> i dont like mom :)
<tseng> i poke around in debian/ myself
<\sh> the change was the c2a change last time I did the merge..now it's in debian
<\sh> there are no ubuntu changes anymore :)
<tseng> approved
<tseng> you should sign yourself up for motu
<\sh> I'll try to reactive my rights on tuesday at TB meeting
<tseng> good luck
<\sh> tseng: and someone has to reactivate again my membership for MOTU...removing doesn't mean, I can join again, removing means "disabled status"
<tseng> I still dont see why you did that
<tseng> but ok.
<tseng> good luck
<tseng> glad you are back
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-25
<LaserJock> hi TheMuso minghua and ScottK 
<nixternal> hi TheMuso minghua ScottK and LaserJock ;)
<TheMuso> heh the list grows.
<LaserJock> hola nixternal 
<ScottK> Heya LaserJock
* ScottK hopes he wasn't too pointed last night...
<ScottK> nixternal missed all the fun by going to be early.
<athena> .....
<LaserJock> ScottK: certainly no more than I
<YannDinendal> Hi
<YannDinendal> I do I know the maintener of a package
<YannDinendal> ?
<ScottK> YannDinendal: What package?
<Flannel> YannDinendal: apt-cache show [pkg] 
<YannDinendal> thanks
<YannDinendal> checkgmail
<ScottK> YannDinendal: Maintainer is MOTU as a team.  We don't have individual maintainers in Ubuntu.
<crimsun> ScottK: / nixternal: revision 13 pushed.
<YannDinendal> ok
<YannDinendal> I would like to learn about packaging, do you think it would be possible for me to package the new version and submit it to the MOTUs ?
<ScottK> YannDinendal: Yes.
<YannDinendal> (soryr, I don't speak english very well, I'm french)
<YannDinendal> ok
<ScottK> This is the place for it.
<YannDinendal> is it the same way to package something from scratch or to update a new version ?
<TheMuso> persia: Damn you are thorough with package reviewing. :)
<ScottK> YannDinendal: Not a problem. In general, you make your updated package and upload it to REVU.
<ScottK> !REVU | YannDinendal
<ubotu> YannDinendal: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<YannDinendal> ok :)
<ScottK> Ask questions here.
<jrib> yep, it's friendly here
<YannDinendal> I have never made a package before... is there some tutorial anywhere ?
<YannDinendal> I've found some on the wiki, but it's for building the package, not update it
<ScottK> Someone else feel free to jump in here.  I've got other stuff going on that really needs my attention....
<YannDinendal> ok
<jrib> YannDinendal: have you seen https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/updating-chap.html ?
<jrib> oh that's about patching, that's not really what you want
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
<StevenK> TheMuso: You mean your registrar doesn't mail you reminders?
<TheMuso> StevenK: It does.
<TheMuso> What happened though, was that I had a domain I no longer wanted to auto renew, which I turned off. But thanks to screwy web pages, it must have done it for both domains or something.
<StevenK> Ahhh
<RAOF> Time to apply for membership to the bugsquad.  I'm sick of having to leave bugs I triage with the wrong importance.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Why don't you apply for MOTU?
<RAOF> I don't have nearly enough experience, surely.
* RAOF should probably write his wiki page, though.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Think about it. You seem to knwo your stuff, particularly in relation to python packaging.
<RAOF> Maybe.  I do plan to apply some time, I'm just not sure that it's now :)
<bipolar> I'm trying to build a deb for a library. This is my first attempt at one. I'm having trouble withe the dh_install step. It's telling me "dh_install: libncreport-dev missing files (usr/lib/lib*.a), aborting" but I don't have any static libs. is there a way to get around this?
<crimsun> well, does debian/libncreport-dev.install list "usr/lib/lib*.a"?  If so, that's a fairly obvious and glaring error.
<RAOF> bipolar: It sounds like your debian/libncreport-dev.install file might include a reference to those static lib files?
<bipolar> hmm... ok. it was auto generated by dh-make :)
<bipolar> RAOF: thanks!
<RAOF> Don't forget to thank crimsun, who was also right, and faster :)
<bipolar> crimsun: oh... thanks!
<nixternal> crimsun: did you use qt4 designer for your gui or no?
<crimsun> nixternal: yes.  (See the status whiteboard...)
<crimsun> "DONE: initial cut at Qt 3 version (Qt 3 Designer-based)
<crimsun> DONE: initial cut at Qt 4 version (Qt 4 Designer-based)"
<nixternal> yup, thanks
<Rumba> how do i generate a list of automatically installed packages?
<bipolar> Yay! My package works :)
<Rumba> bipolar: what package?
<bipolar> Rumba: libncreport. It's a library to write SQL Reports in Qt4
<Rumba> bipolar: aha, thanks
<bipolar> I worked with the developer to split this lib out of a standalone program so others could use it. it's pretty cool
<bipolar> there is also a report designer. it creates the XML report that this lib parses and displays/prints
<bipolar> now that I know what I'm doing (a little bit) I'll package that up too
<Rumba> bipolar: it looks cool indeed. (actually it's cool whenever any libs are split out of monoliths, so it doesn't even need to be particularly cool.) :)
<bipolar> :)
<bipolar> I also setup a trac page for the project, and I'm trying to port the designer to qt4 (it's currently qt3)
<bipolar> http://ncreport.longbros.com
<bipolar> the developer wrote this thing and never even used scm
<RAOF> Uuurgh.
<Rumba> bipolar: i hope it's not a maintainer job only, do the devs cooperate?
<bipolar> Rumba: oh, yes. It's just one guy, but we've been working together.
<Rumba> cool
<bipolar> he hasn't submitted anything new since I setup svn though :P
<bipolar> hasn't been that long
<bipolar> I think he only works on it when people ask him to
<Rumba> :)
<Rumba> sometimes devs are just too focused
<bipolar> hehe
* bipolar runs off to bed, finaly, at 1:30am
<bipolar> gnight all
<TheMuso> /ms/c
<AndyP> Rumba: 'aptitude search ~M' should give you a list of automatically installed packages
<Rumba> AndyP: oh, so aptitude has a different definition of automatically installed packages to that of synaptic. whatever packages i manually marked as "automatically installed" in synaptic are not shown here in aptitude. are you familiar to this issue?
<Rumba> AndyP: even more interesting: apt-get does detect the manually marked ones (in synaptic) as being automatically installed and lists them all
<AndyP> Rumba: yes, i believe the latest updates to apt in debian are working towards resolving the inconsistency between aptitude and the other apt tools in that area... until then, there's inconsistency because aptitude keeps separate data about automatically installed packages, or something
<Rumba> AndyP: can i force aptitude to adopt the apt-get/synaptic list (by, say, purging aptitude, erasing its automatically-updated packages list, and reinstalling it)?
<AndyP> Rumba: only if you have the new aptitude which was recently uploaded to debian unstable, i think
<Rumba> AndyP: from what you know, will gutsy include this new aptitude?
<AndyP> Rumba: it doesn't have it at the moment but i don't know if it will... common sense tells me it's too bleeding edge to be added to gutsy at this stage but the ubuntu devs have been known to pull things out of the bag
<Rumba> AndyP: and i don't suppose there's any apt-get equivalent to 'aptitude search ~M', is there?
<man-di> AndyP: the needed aptitude is only in debianexperimental so far
<StevenK> TheMuso: Bug 122058 is assigned to you, have you uploaded it yet?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122058 in openipmi "Merge openipmi (2.0.11-1) from debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122058
<StevenK> TheMuso: Since a merge is not necessary.
<AndyP> Rumba: i not sure that ubuntu's apt-get treats automatically installed packages as a special case like aptitude does yet
<AndyP> man-di: sorry, yes, experimental
<AndyP> Rumba: the appropriate literature is http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/06/msg00379.html  and http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/06/msg00896.html if you want to follow it up
<Rumba> AndyP: there's "apt-get autoremove", for instance. and the list of autoremovable packages is also shown at every install/uninstall ("The following packages were automatically installed and..."). i just want to know how to get that list generated with no grep hacks and not just as "side effects" of installing/uninstalling something.
* AndyP looks
<Rumba> AndyP: thanks a lot for the links
<AndyP> Rumba: can't find anything similar in apt-get/apt-cache/dpkg, sorry
<Rumba> AndyP: thanks a lot anyway
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach 
<Nightrose> hey dholbach
<AndyP> good morning dholbach 
<dholbach> hi ajmitch, hey Nightrose, hey AndyP
<dholbach> how's it going?
<Nightrose> fine here - and you?
<dholbach> fine too - thanks :)
<Fujitsu> Good afternoon, everyone.
<AndyP> hi Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Hi AndyP.
<TheMuso> StevenK: No I haven't.
<TheMuso> bluefoxicy asked me to do it, I assigned myself, and thought of checking Mom. I then asked him to ask i you don't mind him doing it.
<TheMuso> I certainly haven't looked at it in detail yet.
<TheMuso> sorry, bluekuja 
<TheMuso> bluefoxicy: Sorry, didn't mean you. Damn tab completion.
<nixternal> man, Python is not my friend
<ajmitch> python > nixternal?
<nixternal> so far it is...Java and C++ seem much easier to me...but I have to keep playing with Python
<ajmitch> oh man
<nixternal> you get used to doing iterations and testing in similar ways, and then switch to Python which do them differently...gets confusing
<ajmitch> java & C++, automatic -1
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> C++ is the winner
<ajmitch> if c++ is the winner, I don't want to be playing that game
<nixternal> what would take me an hour or so with Qt and C++, has taken me hours of getting nowhere
<nixternal> hehe
* RAOF is currently trying his hand at some C programming again, and would love to have to be able to gripe about C++
<ajmitch> RAOF: gripe away
<nixternal> Lisp FTW
<RAOF> I'd love to be able to gripe about C++, ie: be actually coding in it.  As it is, I'll need to gripe about OO being hard in C :P
<RAOF> And, for the love of god, why do I have to write yet another list/vector implementation?
* ajmitch wonders if he can unsend an email :)
<nixternal> I am wondering if that is in reference to something "special"
<nixternal> and if so, don't you have to first "send it"?
<ajmitch> haha
<nixternal> ;p
<ajmitch> check your inbox
<nixternal> as long as it isn't as bad as Hobbsee and the Vista stuff :)
<ajmitch> ah, I should have changed the From: address
<ajmitch> oh well
<shawarma> nixternal: Huh? Hobbsee and Vista? What did I miss?
<nixternal> awww :) thanks
<nixternal> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<shawarma> Good morning all, by the way. :)
<nixternal> not a whole lot :)
<ajmitch> hello shawarma 
<Fujitsu> Hi shawarma.
<shawarma> 'morning, ajmitch, Fujitsu.
<nixternal> mornin' to you as well shawarma 
<dholbach> hey shawarma
<shawarma> Good morning, dholbach!
<Burgundavia> hey shawarma
<shawarma> Hi, Burgundavia.
<jerome_> hello all
<jerome_> could someone please review my package on revu : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5720 ?
<jerome_> It's an update for python soya
<jerome_> which should fix bug #117840
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117840 in soya "Wishlist: Update python-soya package" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117840
<jerome_> and bug #115607 and bug #72884
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115607 in slune "[apport]  slune crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115607
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 72884 in balazar "Balazar crashes at startup." [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/72884
<jerome_> Anyone please ?
<dholbach> jerome_: I can take a look in a bit - doing something else atm
<jerome_> dholbach : thank you very much
<dholbach> np
<dholbach> in the future, if you find nobody checking your package, best to mail ubuntu-motu@ or ubuntu-motu-mentors@
<jerome_> ok i'll keep that in mind
<dholbach> rock
<dholbach> jerome_: I'd personally wrap the lines in debian/changelog - but it's ok, uploaded it
<dholbach> no need to go through an extra review iteration for that
<dholbach> once we use bzr for reviewing this will be so much easier... just a simple commit, no re-uploading of a tarball, etc :)
<jerome_> dholbach : so I just have to wait know ?
<dholbach> it's uploaded
<dholbach> it should be built in 2h or something
<jerome_> dholbach : thank you very much
<dholbach> no problem
<dholbach> thank YOU for taking care of the fix
<jerome_> 1st package inside :)
<dholbach> ROCK :)
<jerome_> let's go for the second :)
<dholbach> yeah - hope to see you as a MOTU soon ;-)
<jerome_> well not this year cause I'll be very busy at school, but next year for sure!
<dholbach> great :-)
<jerome_> dholbach : are there any chances that I can get the right to backport this to feisty ?
<dholbach> jerome_: best to ask the backport guys - there's a backport team you can subscribe to the bug report
<jerome_> dholbach : ok I will do that
<dholbach> right-o
<AndyP> dholbach: coincidentally to your conversation in -devel, i've just been looking at the new mergeant version for bug #2383
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2383 in mergeant "mergeant version is very old" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/2383
<dholbach> yeah, we need libgnomedb3 for that
<dholbach> it's in debian gnome-pkg's team svn
<dholbach> fernando asked the maintainer of that package why it's not in debian yet, so we could sync it
<dholbach> I forgot why
<AndyP> hmm
<dholbach> it'd be lovely to have the new mergeant version in
<AndyP> debian's libgnomedb3 changelog in svn has quite a large changelog
<dholbach> yes, it'S been a lot of repackaging
<dholbach> ah, something about using openssl to make a md5 hash and license problems due to that
<dholbach> 3.0.1 upstream release should fix that
<dholbach> ... which does not seem to be out yet?
<AndyP> nope, latest is still 3.0.0
<dholbach> right :-/
<dholbach> maybe we could get you, fernando and the debian maintainer in touch to package a svn version or something
<dholbach> the API is supposed to be stable, so that might be a possibility
<dholbach> (if the fix has landed in svn already)
<AndyP> sounds like a plan
<AndyP> if it has landed, as you say
<dholbach> that way I could package libgnomedbmm3 too
<dholbach> fix has landed 2007-05-17 - gnome bug 437212
<ubotu> Gnome bug 437212 in widgets "gnome-db-entry-password uses openssl to generate md5 hash" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=437212
<crimsun> dholbach: every package that depends on libglademm-2.4-1c2a will need a rebuild
<dholbach> crimsun: really? not just those that were built during the time of the 'changes' glib?
<crimsun> dholbach: pavucontrol and paman are examples that weren't built at all - they were carried unchanged from feisty
<Fujitsu> Is that why lots of things (at least everything depending on gconfmm) is dieing with undefined symbols? Or is that another somewhat similar error?
<crimsun> yes, that's a side effect, too
<dholbach> then we'd have to rebuild everything depending on gtkmm and glibmm
<crimsun> very likely, although I haven't tested those
<Fujitsu> None of the stuff I looked at yesterday builds any more, due to what looks like a glademm change.
<dholbach> did you use 0ubuntu2?
<Fujitsu> I have it on my local machine, and I don't recall upgrading since building them.
<dholbach> that might fix it
<dholbach> 76 source package depending on glibmm
<Fujitsu> I don't think it did, but I'll try again.
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<Fujitsu> 0ubuntu2 of glibmm?
<dholbach> libglademm
<crimsun> I had to wait until 0ubuntu2 of libglademm-2.4-dev was available to rebuild paman and pavucontrol
<dholbach> doesn't hurt to have the latest of gtkmm, glibmm and libglademm
<crimsun> 0ubuntu1 caused FTBFS
<Fujitsu> I've got 0ubuntu2 of {glib,glade}mm
<dholbach> I think I'll upload them all proactively
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Sounds good.
<RainCT> Morning
<dholbach> crimsun, Fujitsu: glib is still b0rked
<dholbach> so I rebuilt stuff in vain
<dholbach> I'll just have to rebuild everything I uploaded since glib was broken, not 'everything'
<Fujitsu> dholbach: What's actually wrong with glib?
<dholbach> <seb128> http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/glib/trunk/gobject/gtype.h?r1=5497&r2=5560 is the breakage
<dholbach>  http://svn.gnome.org/viewcvs/glib/trunk/gobject/gtype.h?r1=5560&r2=5582 is the next commit
<dholbach> that broke the ABI for c++
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<bmm> Any MOTUhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685
* bmm hit return way to soon
<bmm> Any MOTU: the ccbuild package is looking for comments or a second advocate. Please see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5685 for more information
<bashelier> bmm: let me have a look ;)
<bashelier> bmm: is it possible to add a debian/watch ? otherwise, very good package, just have to find a MOTU for an other +1 :)
<coNP> anyone with an idea when Mithrandir will be available?
<coNP> oh I guess I picked the wrong nickname
<pochu> coNP: he's in -devel
<coNP> okay but I wanted to bug him with an universe package :)
<coNP> hey pochu, by the way :)
<pochu> howdy coNP :)
<pochu> I've seen you're going for membership tomorrow, aren't you?
* coNP tries
<pochu> I'll try to be there! :)
<coNP> shouldn't i?
<pochu> why not? :)
<porthose> Any MOTU:  the ampache package is looking for comments.  Please see http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5730 for more information.
<bmm> bashelier: I'd have to find an example for debian/watch on sourceforge packages, not looked for it yet.
<bashelier> bmm: here is one, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/DebianWatch ;)
<bashelier> http://sf.net/<project_name>/<tarball_name_with_regex>
<coNP> Hey MOTUs, anyone up to review my Openbox / Obconf packages?  (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5589, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5569). Hobbsee suggested me to contact Mithrandir but he said he doesn't have time for this right now. So any reviews would be appreciated.
<bmm> bashelier: thanks!
<imbrandon> porthose, commented
<porthose> Thanks 
<Ind[y] > How can I make a .deb file for my Python program?
<AndyP> Ind[y] : do you have any deb packaging experience already?
<Ind[y] > AndyP: no
<AndyP> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<Ind[y] > AndyP: ok. thank you.
<AndyP> Ind[y] : plus http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy which has python specifics (oh joy :)
<AndyP> bah, too eager
<RainCT> why does http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html have double copyright? :P
<AndyP> RainCT: good question
<norsetto> Hi, quick question (I hope) for the REVU guys: how do I know if my GPG key has  been added to the REVU keyring?
<RainCT> norsetto: trying to upload something, I think
<norsetto> well, thats what I did and didn't get any feedback .......
<norsetto> Also, can't log in (and my key has an elgamal secondary key)!? So, I was wondering if I can check in any other way
<RainCT> norsetto: the login is created when you uploaded something
<norsetto> yeah, that what I did (or at least, I think I did)
<mruiz> hi all
<norsetto> Any way I can check if upload was OK? Should have I got a rejection somehow?
<norsetto> dholbach: Hi Daniel, Cesare here. Hope you didn't mind me fiddling with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Reception
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<dholbach> hey norsetto
<dholbach> norsetto: I'm about to take my lunch break - ok if I check it out later on?
<norsetto> dholbach: good idea, I'm about to do the same
<dholbach> alrighty - thanks for your work on that
<AndyP> ScottK: hello
<ScottK> Hello AndyP
<AndyP> ScottK: could you point me in the right direction to get involved with the debian python team?
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> AndyP: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam should have all you need to know.  If you find it doesn't, please take notes and once we get it figured out, update the page.
<AndyP> ScottK: great, thanks
<Rumba> how do i get a list of _all_ packages that are _marked_ as autoremovable (i.e. not just those ones that are currently removable (i.e. are not used by any other packages))?
<mok0> What does it mean "to NMU a package" ??
<AndyP> mok0: non-maintainer upload... it's a debian thing, we don't worry about it in ubuntu
<xxxxx1> good morning all! :)
<mok0> OK, but lintian complains that NMU is not mentioned in changelog
<AndyP> mok0: it does that, don't worry about it
<RAOF> Is there any tool for Gnome similar to Kompare (as in: viewing the contents of a diff/patch and the side-by-side changes)?  apt-cache search and synaptic don't bring up anything that looks good.
<mok0> AndyP: ok, thx
<AndyP> RAOF: meld?
<AndyP> RAOF: i haven't used it myself but it might do what you want (and i've heard good things about it)
<RAOF> Excelllent.  apt-get away.
<RAOF> Bah, except it won't load a pre-existing diff. :/
<zul> some mention my name?
<mok0> I have 6 packs sitting in REVU, ready for a review, in case someone has a profound urge... :-)
<AndyP> RAOF: d'oh, sorry
<RainCT> how can I check if a pbuilder environment was created successfully? I closed the window where it was generating it by mistake and don't know if it finished or not..
<imbrandon> moins Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
<RAOF> AndyP: That's OK, it still helped.  I'm now building a merged kvm package :)
<AndyP> RAOF: good stuff :)
<_MMA_> imbrandon: PM
<zul> hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi zul :)
<norsetto> Anyone from REVU to assist a poor lonely soul?
<Hobbsee> norsetto: what's up?
<norsetto> Tried to upload a package to REVU, but, don't know whats happened
<persia> norsetto: Which package?
* RAOF wills kvm to build faster.
<norsetto> reconstructor, on May 27
<norsetto> never got any feedback, don't even know if the upload was succesfull
<persia> norsetto: Looking now...
<Hobbsee> norsetto: is it shown on revu.tauware.de ?
<norsetto> and if I try to login I can't (even though I had a Elgamal secondary key)
<norsetto> well, I tried searching, but the system is ... shall we say ... not really norsetto-friendly :)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> norsetto: I don't see the package in any of the usual places (ready for review, archived, or rejected), but I think rejected gets cleared out every once in a while, so if it was rejected, it might need a new upload.
<norsetto> should I get notified if it was rejected?
<Hobbsee> only packages older than 6 months get rejected
<Hobbsee> er, cleared out
<persia> Hobbsee: Even from incoming/rejected?
<norsetto> ok, so it never was uploaded I guess (that would also explain why I can't login too)
<Hobbsee> persia: dunno about rejected
<persia> norsetto: That might be it.  Would you mind trying again?
<norsetto> At least, how could I check if the my key was added to the keyring?
<persia> norsetto: An upload is probably the easiest way to check.
<norsetto> OK, I'm trying a new dput right now
<norsetto> Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de; Doing nothing for reconstructor_2.5-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<TheMuso> norsetto: dput -f
* persia triple checks
<StevenK> Or, rm the .upload the file
<StevenK> TheMuso: Did you see my message?
<RAOF> Wooo!  One working KVM package.
<persia> norsetto: Delete your source.upload file, and try again.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Re the merge, yes, I thought I responded.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Oh, mind saying it again?
<TheMuso> StevenK: No I hadn't touched the merge. I decided to check MoM to see whos merge it was originally, and suggested that you should be asked about it.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Knowing that you prefer to be asked re your merges.
<TheMuso> c
<StevenK> Ahh, nice.
<TheMuso> ugh kvm
<norsetto> Successfully uploaded packages.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'm waiting for packages.debian.org to update and then I'm going to file a sync.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Right.
<TheMuso> StevenK: You might want to tell bluekuja 
<persia> norsetto: They arrived safely, and should be processed sometime in the next five minutes.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Have done so already.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok.
<norsetto> OK, thanks, anything I can do about the login?
<norsetto> dholbach: Oh Wonderfull, Allmighty, AllPowerfull Daniel, would you have some time to have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5734? <insert animation of a god's adoration here>
<RAOF> Huzzah.  Anyone who feels like some kvm-sponsorship are now welcome to imbibe the choice juices of bug #122113.  And it's time for bed.  Good night all!
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122113 in kvm "[Merge]  Please merge kvm-28-4 from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122113
* persia suggests that bug 121940 might have also been a good choice before looking at 122113
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121940 in kvm "KVM newest version request (dup-of: 119254)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121940
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119254 in kvm "Fails to create KVM context on linux-image-2.6.22-6" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119254
<Bixente> Hi. I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5727
<norsetto> dholbach: Oh Wonderfull, Allmighty, AllPowerfull Daniel, would you have some time to have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5734? <insert animation of a god's adoration here>
<norsetto> gods, they are never there when you need them.......
<jrib> what's the policy on line endings?  python-opengl installs a bunch of examples to /usr/share/doc/python-opengl/Demo/ with ^M at the end of each line.  python handles this fine though, so not sure if this is bug worthy
<mok0> Where is a good place to ask about license related issues?
<persia> jrib: It's generally not bug-worthy.  Most of that comes from upstream, and is rather painful to patch.
<persia> mok0: This is a good place to start, although you'll rarely get an authoritative answer.
<mok0> OK. A license that is not restrictive, except it contains a requirement to keep the copyright notice in the source code, and a "disclaimer" section, what would that be?
<jrib> persia: thanks
<persia> mok0: It sounds like a BSD-ish license to me.  Which license?
<mok0> Look here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27127
<persia> mok0: Yep, that's http://www.gnu.org/licenses/info/BSD_3Clause.html
<mok0> persia:  so that would be ok with Ubuntu?
<persia> mok0: Absolutely.  You can't use /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD, as it's the University of Melbourne, rather than the Regents of the University of California, but as long as you include the license in debian/copyright, you're all set.
<mok0> persia:  good, so I'll go ahead and package this.
<persia> mok0: http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html is a good resource to check licenses.  if the license you're looking at isn't already listed there, it provides some standard questions to ask yourself when trying to decide if it is acceptable.
<mok0> persia:  ... should I hold back on uploads to REVU, I have 6 packages sitting there already?
<mok0> persia:  thx for the links
<persia> mok0: No need to hold back, but if you have open comments, you should prefer reuploading to new packaging, and if you don't have open comments, you should request advocation.
<mok0> persia:  well, I'm a bit stuck on wulfware, I uploaded the mods we mailed about, but the rest of the packages are ready for review
<Hobbsee> coNP: picking a time when people are wroking really hard on a tribe release to ask for a sponsor to debian isnt smart, FYI
<persia> mok0: Sorry I haven't gotten back to you on that - there doesn't seem to be a trivial solution :(  Have you requested reviews of your other packages as well?  If not, it's worth posting a link.
<mok0> persia:  Here is the link for wulfware http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5733
<mok0> But theseus is pretty far along in the process: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5674
<persia> mok0: I'm not REVUing right now, but thanks: perhaps someone else will look at them.
<mok0> persia:  That would be nice. Seems like the MOTUs are somewhat understaffed :-)
<RainCT> how can I update a package to a newer version? download the new one, copy the debian directory there, check the patches (if any) and update changelog?
<persia> RainCT: Basically.  There's a more detailed guide available under MOTU/Recipes on the wiki
<persia> RainCT: Additionally, if the package is also distributed in Debian, it's worth checking with the Debian maintainer to see if they're already planning an update soon.
<RainCT> persia: ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: ping
<RainCT> persia: argh, it's closed source now :(     (and now, I didn't need 30 minutes to discover this, I had not looked at it until now :p)
<persia> RainCT: Which package?
<RainCT> persia: njam (http://www.guacosoft.com/njam/), it only provides binaries and says something about a demo on the copying file
<persia> RainCT: Ah.  Too bad.  Sometimes it's worth checking the AUTHORS file to see if perhaps there is still an open fork around, but in this case, it looks fairly dead.
<Nightrose> \sh ping?
<RainCT> where can I find something to package? I've looked at like 30 games in happypenguin and all either are commercial or have already a package for ubuntu on their website (I send a mail to those about submiting them for inclusion in universe), and the only one I found that I could try is ITP in Debian :(
<Hobbsee> RainCT: there are plenty of bugs with the tag "needs-packaging"
<RainCT> Hobbsee: well, will check again, but last time I looked there I only found stuff that looked to difficult or too boring :P
<RainCT> persia: thanks for checking that
<YannDinendal> RainCT, If you want to package something, there is one I'ld like to do but as I'm very noob on the subject, this one seems too difficult to start with...
<jussi01> Hobbsee: (and you other aussies) did you see the dvd special at harvey norman?
<Hobbsee> i havent been to harvey norman in yeras.  why, what is it?
<StevenK> I also avoid Hardly Normal like the plague.
<jussi01> 50 lg dvd's for 15$
<jussi01> Usually me also...
<\sh> Nightrose, pong
<\sh> Nightrose, just got the message from marc :)
<\sh> Nightrose, I don't know...I need to go home first...
<Nightrose> \sh: ok fine - would be nice to see you booth there
<Toadstool> g'morning!
<\sh> Nightrose, could you send the address and the meeting point to sh@sourcecode.de ? :) thx :)
<Nightrose> \sh: ok will do ;-)
<\sh> Nightrose, cool thx :) and thx for the information :)
<Nightrose> \sh: yw - sorry again it's so short notice
<\sh> Nightrose, no problem....I think I'll try to convince my GF to come with me :)
<Nightrose> \sh:  perfect ;-)
<coNP> Hey Hobbsee! Sorry I don't wanted to offend / press anyone. I am only pinging someone once a week or so...
<Hobbsee> coNP: no problem - was just a FYI
<Hobbsee> coNP: you might ask a DD to upload that to debian for you
<Hobbsee> as it seems that he's either forgotten or misunderstood about uploading it to debian, then syncing it
<coNP> okay I might try it in a few days
<Hobbsee> coNP: after tribe 2 is out, probably
<coNP> Hobbsee: I also thought of that
<Hobbsee> :)
<coNP> So thanks FYI :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> ping dholbach 
<hendrixski> Is there a separate command for creating debian packages from Qt applications?
<dholbach> mruiz: pong
<mruiz> dholbach: I updated another package ;-) 
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> why don't you drop me a mail with the link to the revu page?
<mruiz> I'm creating my REVU account
<dholbach> ah ok
<mruiz> What's the procedure to create one ?
<persia> mruiz: REVU accounts are automatically created upon upload - there's no need to create the account first.
<persia> mruiz: On the other hand, you must first be a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors.
<dholbach> it should be all on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<mruiz> persia, I do
* mruiz reading about REVU
<hendrixski> I didn't see anything on the debian maintainers guide, but it also says that dh_make is for programs that can be installed by ./configure, make, make install ... and qt apps are qmake, make install.  So is there something i should be doing differently when packaging qt apps?
<mruiz> persia, I need to be added to the REVU uploaders keyring. How can I do it?
<persia> mruiz: Have you registered your GPG key in launchpad, and joined ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<mruiz> persia: yes
<persia> mruiz: In that case, ask here (you just did), and wait 10-15 minutes whilst I sync the keyring.
<mruiz> thanks persia 
<persia> hendrixski: CDBS has a kde.mk and a qmake.mk, which might be an easy way to handle that (if you're willing to investigate CDBS).
<mruiz> Which files should I use whit dput: my devel directory or pbuilder results ?
<hendrixski> persia, I've been thinking about reading up on CDBS... I understand it's not a universally adopted tool?
<mok0> hendrixski:  It's a black box
<hendrixski> mok0, oh... we don't like those in the open source world
<mok0> hendrixski:  I've tried it and I don't like it. You loose control
<jussi01> hendrixski: here is the nicest link i have been able to find... https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<persia> mruiz: You'll need a source.changes file.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU is also a good source of info (and yes, there is a current effort to merge these).
<sacater> hey all, its been over 3, nearly 4 weeks since my membership was approved, but I have heard no further news, is anything going wrong?
<persia> hendrixski: Not universally adopted, but widely adopted.  It's perfectly safe to use, and much easier in the simple case (but perhaps more confusing in the non-simple case).
<persia> jussi01: That is indeed the best documentation there is, excepting the makefiles themselves.
<jussi01> persia:  dholbach pointed that one out to me...
<jussi01> :D
<persia> mok0: How do you lose any more control than with debhelper?
<hendrixski> jussi01, :-) cool .... though... when I searched it for "qt" it came up with 0 results
<persia> sacater: That's normal.  The big change is that you should now be a member of ubuntumembers (which you are).
* jussi01 wonders if maybe he should apply for membership sometime...
<mok0> persia:  with debhelper only you have more control 
<persia> hendrixski: Install CDBS, and take a quick look at /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/qmake.mk - it should include some of the rules you might otherwise need to write.
<persia> mok0: How?
<mok0> persia: If you need to do anything out of the ordinary, like run autoconf etc.
<sacater> persia: why does it take so long :(
<persia> sacater: What are you expecting?
* hendrixski installing cdbs as per persia's receomendation 
<sacater> persia: @ubuntu email address, planet ubuntu syndication
<sacater> that sort of stuff
<persia> mok0: You might be interested in autotools.mk.  Also, see "Basic custom build rules" in section 2 of the CDBS manual (at the link jussi01 posted)
<pleia2> sacater: just try to send an email to your launchpad name @ubuntu.com and see if it works
<pleia2> sacater: adding yourself to the planet is something you have to do yourself: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu
<sacater> pleia2: i tried an email and it failed
<pleia2> might be time to follow-up then :) I was approved during the same meeting you were and my address is working
* hendrixski is confused by the qmake.mk file :-(
<persia> hendrixski: Basically, if you are using CDBS, and you include qmake.mk, it calls qmake instead of make to build things (as I understand it).  The rest is just extra CDBS magic.
<hendrixski> aahh, Ok
<persia> mruiz: sync completed.  Please proceed to upload :)
<hendrixski> persia, so... if I were to not use cdbs... then I'd have to replace make with qmake in debian/rules much the same way that the qmake.mk file does?
<mruiz> thanks persia 
* hendrixski goes to look at the rules files in the packages he's been trying to mimic 
<persia> hendrixski: You don't have to do ti the same way, but yes, you probably want to use qmake instead of make (or both, or whatever is common for Qt packaging).
<coNP> can I archive a revu upload myself?
<Hobbsee> no
<coNP> if not please do that for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5732
<persia> coNP: OK.
<coNP> actually I want a never one
<coNP> newer* but with the same version number
<Hobbsee> done
<persia> coNP: In that case, just upload the newer one - it will overwrite.  You can leave a comment on the old one saying you don't want a review.
<Hobbsee> you can just upload it over the top, and i'tll overwite
<persia> Hobbsee: You're faster than my browser search :)
<Hobbsee> :P
<coNP> it sdoes not
<coNP> it says "already uploaded"
<persia> coNP: Do you have a source.upload locally?
<Hobbsee> remove the .upload file
<coNP> thanks persia & Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> or use -f
* persia disapproves of -f:: it overrides too many other things as well.
<ScottK> RainCT: We don't have "ITP" in Ubuntu.  It's just a bug tagged "Needs packaging" that is marked.  I tagged your open invaders bug.
* hendrixski goes to tinker with replacing make with qmake
<Hobbsee> persia: that is true - care is needed with it
<mruiz> I was uploading a package to REVU, but I had a problem and the upload was unsuccessful. How can I "delete" the existing file in the server ?
<ceros> does dcut work on REVU?
<ScottK> ceros: No.
<ScottK> Unless of course I'm wrong.
<Hobbsee> it doesnt work on revu
<ceros> so when do rejected files get deleted from ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/
<ScottK> ceros: When you ask a REVU admin to delete them.
<ceros> are you an admin?
<ScottK> No, sorry.
<Hobbsee> ceros: which package?
<Hobbsee> mruiz: ^
<ceros> alien-arena and alien-arena-data
<Hobbsee> done
<ceros> thanks
<mruiz> Hobbsee: nginx
<ceros> Hobbsee: why aren't people allowed to overwrite files?
<Hobbsee> ceros: they are...
<ceros> i've tried dput -f
<Hobbsee> usually
<ceros> doesn't work for me
<Hobbsee> !doesnt work
<ubotu> Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.
<sacater> pleia2: i tried the planet ubuntu link and it keeps failing
<sacater> pleia2: go #sacater please
<Hobbsee> mruiz: done
<mruiz> thanks Hobbsee  ;-)
<jussi01> lol at that factoid Hobbsee... :D
<hendrixski> lol @ doesn't work
<Hobbsee> :D
<Hobbsee> i like ti
<Hobbsee> sacater: see !doesnt work
<ceros> Hobbsee: i've even made sure there were no *.upload files anywhere
<hendrixski> awww... they changed !anything ... now it's just
<hendrixski> !anything
<ubotu> So, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.
<jussi01> heheh
<RainCT> xDDD
<Hobbsee> ceros: there's nothing on revu about it at all.
<RainCT> ScottK: it also needs the tag if it already has someone assigned?  (sorry was away)
<ScottK> RainCT: Yes because that's the only way one can query to get a list of packages.  Basically, in Ubuntu, "Needs Packaging" covers both ITP and RFP.
<RainCT> ScottK: okay, thanks
<RainCT> if I make a package, what maintainer should I set? MOTU or myself?
<sladen> RainCT: the maintainer willbe autoamtically set
<RainCT> ah right, thanks sladen
<ScottK> RainCT: But for a new package it makes sense to set it to MOTU and then add yourself as XSBC: Original-Maintainer.
<RainCT> how can I get the build dependencies, just running ./configure and writting the name of the package where everything it looks for is?
<Hobbsee> pretty much.  it's trial and error
<Hobbsee> well, it'll fail in the configure, usually
<Hobbsee> when it doesnt find what it wants
<ceros> RainCT: use 'objdump -p <binary> | grep NEEDED
<ceros> after you built them
<ceros> RainCT: for each file listed such as libfoo.so.6, run
<ceros> dpkg -S libfoo.so.6
<ceros> see also http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dreq.en.html#s-control
<Q-FUNK> keescook: actually, -amd also builds on amd64
<RainCT> ceros, Hobbse: thanks :)
<RainCT> so build-essentials needs to be added or can it be left out?
<Hobbsee> it can be left out
<Hobbsee> RainCT: it's a depends of debhelper, via dh-make
<RainCT> ah ok
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: pong
<YannDinendal> Hi
<YannDinendal> I'm begining with packaging...
<YannDinendal> and I've got an error 
<YannDinendal> when running debuild -S -sa
<YannDinendal> dpkg-source : avertissement : Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<YannDinendal> what should be the version number ?
<jussi01> YannDinendal: you need to set motu as your maintainer, and yourself as xsbc maintainer.
<YannDinendal> ok
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<YannDinendal> usually, this package is merged from debian...
<YannDinendal> should I wait for it
<YannDinendal> or is it ok doing an ubuntu version directly ?
<nixternal> depends on how long you have to wait for it :)  usually what I do is contact the DD in charge and let them know their is a new upstream release, and usually that same day they will have it updated so I can merge/sync it
<YannDinendal> ok
<YannDinendal> I've contacted him
<nixternal> if I don't hear back in a few days I will then go ahead and create the updated package..but then again that is my personal preference...don't think it is a "rule" or anything
<YannDinendal> he is waiting for his "sponsor" (or something like that) to upload it
<nixternal> ahhh
<YannDinendal> in fact, I would at least make it myself, even if it's not used, so I can learn how it's done
<nixternal> so the person maintaining the package isn't a DD then, just a new maintainer...ya those are fun
<nixternal> YannDinendal: do it then, I always do that...I sit here when it is slow and create packages to learn different things all the time
<pleia2> shush nixternal, I'm a NM ;P
<nixternal> pleia2: me too :)
<pleia2> :)
<YannDinendal> ok thanks nixternal 
<nixternal> my sponsor is hardcore though, she finds more things that persia does, which I never thought possible
<nixternal> s/that/than
<pleia2> nice
<jussi01> lol
<pleia2> one of my sponsors makes more mistakes than I do half the time (poor fellow)
<nixternal> lol
<pleia2> webcalendar is on -11 or something lovely
<YannDinendal> so who should I put in xsbc maintainer ? the debian guy or me ?
<pochu> YannDinendal: the one who was in the 'Maintainer' field before you changed it
<mruiz> nixternal, Did you find an advocate (NM)?
<RainCT> ceros: isn't the other code that's in the page you said me better (the long one)?
<YannDinendal> :/
<YannDinendal> I don't remember where is set the mainteners fields ?
<YannDinendal> *are
<ScottK> YannDinendal: In debian/control
<RainCT> YannDinendal: debian/control
<YannDinendal> :)
<keescook> Q-FUNK: it didn't for me.  :)
<keescook> Q-FUNK: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amd/2.7.6.5~20060905-0ubuntu1
<nixternal> mruiz: yes, the same guy that signed my key is working with me teaching me all of the ropes. He has been a DD since 1995...it is kind of liking trying to keep up with an F1 car in a Yugo :)
<nixternal> s/liking/like
<keescook> Q-FUNK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27145/
<sacater> pleia2: #sacater again please
<pleia2> k
<mruiz> nixternal, :-)  I'm also waiting in the NM queue... Nyon contacted me and I replied one month ago. I'm waiting for comments  ;-)
<nixternal> did you get all of the crazy questions yet?
<mruiz> yes :-) the first round 
<nixternal> did you grab the list of questions you will get from alioth? they are on there somewhere, to help you prepare a little :)
<YannDinendal> I've got another problem with debuild -S -sa...
<nixternal> signing the .dsc?
<YannDinendal> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
<YannDinendal>  signfile checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1.dsc Yann Brelire <yannbreliere@gmail.com>
<YannDinendal> gpg:  Yann Brelire <yannbreliere@gmail.com>  a t ignor: la cl secrte n'est pas disponible
<YannDinendal> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: la cl secrte n'est pas disponible
<YannDinendal> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<mruiz> nixternal: yes... My advocate gave me the link to prepare the test ... useful!
<YannDinendal> debuild: fatal error at line 1155:
<nixternal> lol
<YannDinendal> running debsign failed
<nixternal> mruiz: awesome! those help a lot
<nixternal> YannDinendal: you can try to use -k<keyid>
<YannDinendal> I have a pgp key but I don't know how to use it
<YannDinendal> ok
<nixternal> i.e., for me I do -k2e2c0124
<nixternal> not guaranteeing it will work, but it does every now and then for me
<YannDinendal> ok I try it
<nixternal> that is why I tend to use dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k2e2c0124 in a script, it always works for me
<YannDinendal> thanks nixternal, debuild -S -sa -k350876D5 worked well for me ! :)
<nixternal> rock on!
<jussi01> dammit...
* jussi01 kills flash...
<YannDinendal> nixternal, now I've run   sudo pbuilder build checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1.dsc
<YannDinendal> it worked
<nixternal> gotta love it
<YannDinendal> but what have been done ? ^^ created the package ?
<mruiz> I'm using Gutsy as VMware image... and I don't have enough space.  Is it recommended to delete some directories from /var/cache/pbuilder ?
<jussi01> mruiz: use pbuilder clean
<nixternal> YannDinendal: it tested the build and created the *.deb files in /var/cache/pbuilder/results
<YannDinendal> oh great !
<YannDinendal> so now, what should I do ? test the .deb ?
<RainCT> can I use a backslash in debian/control to break a line?
<mruiz> thanks jussi01 
<jussi01> :)
<geser> RainCT: no, its rfc822 format
<geser> see the Description field how to break long lines
<YannDinendal> nixternal, thank you very much, the deb installs very well. I'll look around for other informations about how to submit it after lunch
<nixternal> glad I could help
<RainCT> geser: and how can I do that? I've found in http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description that it says that it's allowed, but it doesn't say how :S
<geser> lines starting with whitespace count as continuation lines
<geser> e.g "Description: line1", " line2", " line3"
<RainCT> ah ok, thank you
<lucas> nxvl: pong
<Q-FUNK> keescook: was that pastebin on amd64?
<keescook> Q-FUNK: yup.
<keescook> I'm not sure there are 64bit motherboards with that amd driver, though, so I figured it was okay.  :)
<Q-FUNK> keescook: ok.  good to know.  looking at configure, though, would suggest that this can build on amd64 as well.
<ceros> RainCT: the long one in that page might list off unneeded dependencies
<RainCT> ceros: yes, noticed it. over half of what it said weren't needed XD
<Q-FUNK> keescook: why didn't this do to main, btw?
<RainCT> on debian/copyright, should I only list the copyright holder or all contributors?
<keescook> Q-FUNK: do you mean why is it in universe?
<Q-FUNK> keescook: yes
<keescook> you'll have to check with bryce, I'm not sure the status of getting various video drivers in main
<mruiz> see you all!
<bryce> hi
<Q-FUNK> keescook: are you the one who spoted the arch issue, btw?
<bryce> Q-FUNK: I don't know offhand why some drivers are in main and some aren't.  Presumably some are considered in more widespread use than others.
<Q-FUNK> bryce: getting this into main would be desirable, especially from an LTSP perspective, as there's a plethora of thin clients using that chipset.
<bryce> Q-FUNK: feel free - the directions for getting stuff into main are here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<RainCT> can somebody help me with the debian/rules file? i've no idea what to do there :/
<coNP> RainCT: I guess it is a standard Makefile
<RainCT> well, I neither know Makefiles
<YannDinendal> hi again
<YannDinendal> how do I submit a package for inclusion in universe ?
<ScottK> !REVU | YannDinendal
<ubotu> YannDinendal: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<YannDinendal> thanks :) (I had heard of it but I didn't remember if it was this indeed)
<YannDinendal> "Your GPG key needs to have an Elgamal secondary key in order to allow encrypting data as well as signing it." 
<YannDinendal> how do I know if my key have ElGamal ?
<geser> if you took the defaults when you generated your key, you should have a DSA/ElGamal key
<YannDinendal> ok :)
<geser> you can also check the output from gpg --list-key yourkeyid
<geser> for DSA/ElGamal you should get a line starting with "pub   1024D/" (the DSA key) and a line with "sub   2048g/" (ElGamal sub-key)
<YannDinendal> yes it's ok :)
<YannDinendal> in which directory should I execute dput ?
<YannDinendal> /var/cache/pbuilder/result ?
<geser> the directory doesn't matter, only the file you dput
<YannDinendal> ok
<geser> dput revu yourpackage_source.changes
<geser> dput will find the other files in the same directory as the .changes file
<YannDinendal> yes it worked :)
<RainCT> what's the dh_ to install the .desktop and .xpm files?
<RainCT> or is a mv OK for those?
<geser> dh_desktop
<RainCT> does that copy the xpm too?
<geser> but it currently only registers them, you have to install them manually
<geser> see man dh_desktop
<RainCT> geser: thanks
<geser> you can use dh_install to install both to the right location
<porthose> Any MOTU:  the ampache package is in need of advocates/comments.  Please visit http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5730 for more details.  Thank you
<RainCT> geser: is the dh_desktop ok after   install: build [...]  dh_installdirs   ?
<geser> I'm not sure right of my head, but yes. You can look where other packages call it.
<RainCT> geser: ok, it's in   binary-arch: build install
<YannDinendal> hum... I did   dput revu checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1_source.changes   but I forgot asking to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring so I think it had'nt worked...
<RainCT> I get this when trying to upload to revu: Checksum doesn't match for /home/rainct/Desktop/WIP/open-invaders_0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<jabra> how often is lts versions released
<RainCT> ah ok, forgot to debuild again
<RainCT> jabra: I think gutsy+1 will be, iirc
<YannDinendal> jabra, every 3 versions I think ?
<YannDinendal> oh no... that would be gutsy... so I don't know
<YannDinendal> is there an admin who could re-sync the REVU keyring ?
<jabra> which is it
<jabra> 6 months or 1 year ?
<RainCT> jabra: the time between each release? 6 months
<jabra> so gutsy is lts ok
<jabra> great 
<jabra> thanks
<YannDinendal> no I don't think so !
<nixternal> gutsy is not LTS
<RainCT> jabra: Gutsy will be on October, but I don't think gutsy is LTS
<ScottK> Gutsy in not LTS
<nixternal> gutsy+1 MAY be LTS, but that hasn't even been decided on as of yet
<ScottK> Heya nixternal.  I see the quality of your sucking up has definitely improved.
<nixternal> it is working isn't it :)
<YannDinendal> How do I know if my upload in REVU worked ?
<nixternal> well, now just need to see that LP change come through, and we will see if the "sucking up" really worked :)
<nixternal> YannDinendal: in about 5 minutes check revu :)
<coNP> anyone could help me why http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27155/ happens?
<YannDinendal> ok :)
<ScottK> nixternal: Wanna fix some courier troubles for somebody?
<nixternal> hehe
<ScottK> nixternal: It has to go to tech board too (although that's been a rubber stamp so far).
<nixternal> coNP: sudo apt-get -f install
<nixternal> oh wait
<nixternal> that is a pbuild
<coNP> nixternal: it seems to build "out there"
<YannDinendal> nixternal, should I re-upload it ? as I uploaded it without being registered...
<CarlFK> is there a motu mail list?
<nixternal> is this a gutsy pbuilder?
<nixternal> YannDinendal: wait a minute or two first
<coNP> nixternal: yes 
<nixternal> hrmm
<YannDinendal> CarlFK, ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<RainCT> CarlFK: ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<coNP> with "pbuilder update" before build
<CarlFK> wow, tied to the second... 
<CarlFK> thanks
<YannDinendal> lol
<nixternal> coNP: was the 2.18.0-2ubuntu1 uploaded recently or something? it is acting like it isn't "there" yet
<ScottK> nixternal: See the comments to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/courier/+bug/86802 if you want to fix something else that needs fixing.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 86802 in courier "Can't change location of maildir in courier-imap" [Undecided,Fix released]  
<nixternal> ScottK: looking now
<ScottK> coNP: Try running pbuilder update and then try to build again of the 2.18 whatever version is in the repos
<coNP> nixternal: it says it is not going to install python-gnome2-desktop, but does not explain why not
<ScottK> coNP: Yes it does
<nixternal> coNP: it could be that it isn't being picked up yet
<coNP> of course I did a "pbuilder update" 
<nixternal> it could be one of those packages that you need to wait a couple of hours, and then do another pbuilder update, and try again :)
<nixternal> I hate those, but I have seen a few of them here recently
<coNP> okay thanks
<coNP> but "outer" apt-get dist-upgrade seems to be able to fetch the same package
<nixternal> ScottK: ya, that bug is filled witha  bunch of mumbu jumbo :)
<nixternal> is it a courier issue, a maildrop issue, a packaging issue...or just an issue ;p
<RainCT> Any MOTU please check this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5741.  The first one to comment gets a link to images with cookies :P
<ScottK> nixternal: It's probably an issue in many of the courier binary packages.  I just fixed courier-imap since that's what the bug was about.
<ScottK> nixternal: You could probably take my fix from 0.53.3-5ubuntu1 and just apply it to all the other binary packages for which it's relevant.
<nixternal> I will grab it here in a few...I need some food, I feel myself getting weak ;p
<pygi> who is willing to sponsor? :)
<YannDinendal> [/home/yann/sources/test]  dput revu checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<YannDinendal> Already uploaded to revu.tauware.de
<YannDinendal> Doing nothing for checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<YannDinendal> but it isn't here : http://revu.tauware.de/ :(
<mok0> Delete the .upload file
<YannDinendal> ok
<YannDinendal> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1.dsc
<YannDinendal> so it seems to be already there
<mok0> Have you published your gpg public key?
<YannDinendal_brb> yes
<mok0> When?
<YannDinendal_brb> https://launchpad.net/~yannbreliere
<YannDinendal_brb> 2 monthes ago I think
<mok0> OK :-)
<Q-FUNK> keescook: -amd just got accepted by debian, it seems
<mok0> YannDinendal: you may have to ask an admin to clear your old files from REVU
<coNP> oh I guess I got it
<coNP> it was my fault, sorry
<mok0> YannDinendal_brb: you could try dput -f revu ....source.changes
<YannDinendal> same error with -f
<YannDinendal> Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<YannDinendal> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<YannDinendal> rejected by the upload queue management software.
<YannDinendal> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.tauware.de):
<YannDinendal>   checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1.dsc: 
<YannDinendal> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1.dsc
<YannDinendal> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<mok0> I've had that only once, when I used the i386.changes file instead of the source.changes
<mok0> somehow it locks up if it has a binary .deb
<YannDinendal> is there an admin who could check if it has been uploaded ?
<YannDinendal> on this page : http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=yannbreliere@gmail.com
<YannDinendal> Now paste the text below, and enter EOT<return>
<YannDinendal> there is nothing below :(
<RainCT> !REVU | RainCT
<RainCT> please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5741
<ScottK> RainCT: Is putting (RainCT) in your e-mail address still valid?  I thought that was the RFC 822 pretty name delimiter.
<RainCT> ScottK: neither pbuilder nor dpkg-buildpackage complain, and that's how I've it in my GPG ke
<RainCT> s/ke/key
<ScottK> ok
<ScottK> RainCT: Last line of description should be [2 space]  Hompage: [URL}
<ScottK> without any actual { or } in it.
<RainCT> ScottK: ok. is there any other problem with it?
<YannDinendal> ScottK, can you see if my package have been uploaded ? it seems it didn't work :( I don't know what to do...
<RainCT> ScottK: homepage like that? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27171/
<YannDinendal> it is checkgmail_1.12-0ubuntu1_source.changes signed with yannbreliere@gmail.com
<ScottK> RainCT: That's all I saw on a quick scan through.  That's all I have time for right now.
<ScottK> YannDinendal: Did you join the "Contributors of Packages to Universe" team on launchpad and then ask to have the REVU keyring re-syched after you did?
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, thanks. how can I upload it again?
<RainCT> with -f ?
<YannDinendal> yes, I'm in "Contributors of Packages to Universe" and asked a re-sync but I don't know if it have been done
<ScottK> RainCT: It you rebuild and resign the package, I don't think you'll need -f, but if it won't take it, then yes, -f.
<ScottK> YannDinendal: Normally someone will tell you if it has (I'm not a REVU admin, so can't).  Otherwise it's automatically done I think once per day.
<YannDinendal> ok
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, thanks
<RainCT> ScottK: I think REVU marked the new one as older :S
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=5744&upid2=5741
<ScottK> RainCT: It's fine http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=5741&upid2=5744 you just need to start from the new one and diff to the old one.
<RainCT> ScottK: then shouldn't the files listed above be updated? because clicking on open-invaders_0.2-0ubuntu1.diff still shows the old one
<Ng> hey folks
<Ng> if I have a package which has a bunch of dpatch patches and I want to add a new patch to the package, can I easily convert a regular patch to a dpatch patch?
<Ng> (I hope that makes sense)
<ScottK> RainCT: Look at the new upload at upid=5744
<ScottK> Ng: Yes.
<Ng> ScottK: excellent :)
<ScottK> Ng: Use dpatch-edit-patch (it has a very nice man page) and apply the patch inside dpatch-edit-patch.
<Ng> ScottK: thanks, I'll check that out :)
<RainCT> ScottK: ah ok, thx again :)
<Ng> btw, is there some kind of policy with respect to applying patches to things? I'm specifically looking at vdr which has some patches disabled in the debian versions that I'd really like to see enabled in ubuntu
<ScottK> Ng: I think you'd want to understand why they are disabled.  
<ScottK> Ng: Generally we like to respect the Debian maintainer's choices unless there's a good reason  not to.
<Ng> ScottK: ok, I shall make enquiries. I'm happy building it for myself if not :)
<xxxxx1> bye all!
<RainCT> MOTU's please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5744
<nixternal> RainCT: in debian/rules, just remove all of the #dh* stuff if you aren't using it
<nixternal> cleaning purposes only
<RainCT> nixternal: ok, but I think all packages I've seen have them
<nixternal> ya, same here, but I have been informed that if they aren't being used to remove them by DDs
<nixternal> I guess they (Debian, some of them) like a tidier file
<porthose> MOTU's please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5730 thank you.
<RainCT> nixternal: okay. should I also remove lines 3-7?
<RainCT> * 3-10
<nixternal> I do, but I have noticed some of those who tell me to remove the commented out lines, they leave it
<nixternal> actually, when I create packages now I use CDBS, so I remove it all :)
<ScottK> If it's something that you'll never use (like dh_perl in a Python package) it really ought to be removed.  
<RainCT> ok, uploading.
<ScottK> nixternal: I sent your python-scipy patch (along with others) to Debian.  Thanks again: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=430588
<ubotu> Debian bug 430588 in python-scipy "Python-scipy unable to find umfpack" [Normal,Open]  
<nixternal> oooh, I am movin' on up, to the east side
<crimsun> duh, you're a deity.
<ScottK> Well if they apply the patches I just sent them, the next one will be a sync...
<crimsun> we're graced with the presence of multiple Community Council members
<nixternal> hah, a deity nevah!
<nixternal> ey
<nixternal> ?
<ScottK> Who's the other one?
<nixternal> I don't even see one
<ScottK> I just made a bug won't fix 23 minutes after submission. At least he can't complain no one reads the bugs.
<nixternal> hahahaha
<crimsun> "I was recently nominated and 
<crimsun> approved to join the Kubuntu Community Council in which I so graciously hold 
<crimsun> a seat."
<crimsun> that's obviously Rich
<crimsun> Sarah's one
<crimsun> Jordan's one
<crimsun> Daniel's one
<crimsun> we're just mere peons
* ajmitch grovels
<nixternal> oh
<nixternal> Jordan is one?
<nixternal> man, I am so out of the loop
<nixternal> wait a second, you and ajmitch are council members too!
<crimsun> well, he's Edubuntu Council
<nixternal> ahh, see didnt' even know they had one I don't think
<ajmitch> nixternal: only a mere motu council person
<nixternal> ya, but my fate is in your hands, so strike the "mere" from that one :)
<ajmitch> hardly worthy of even licking your shoes
<nixternal> hahhaaha
<ajmitch> I see poor calc is getting grilled on the MC list
<nixternal> ya he is, and he has WAY more experience than I do
<nixternal> he has a bunch of things that make me think +1 easily
<nixternal> DD, Canonical employee, but it could be the last name ;p
<ScottK> Except is application read "Canonical hiered me, so I need to be a MOTU" and this is the community driven part of the distro.
<nixternal> oh
<ScottK> Except I can't type.
<nixternal> hehe
<ajmitch> ScottK: yet he needs to go through MOTU in order to upload his packages
<ajmitch> it's the only way to core-dev
<ScottK> Right.  It's a hard problem.
<nixternal> hey, he is cool by me, as long as we get some insite as to what Canonical is doing behind our back :)
<RainCT> nixternal: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5750
* ajmitch is very much inclined to give +1
<ScottK> That's why I said in my message I was glad I didn't have to decide.
<nixternal> and just as long as he doesn't "accidentally" shoot one of us in the face during a hunting trip
<nixternal> I bet he gets that joke all of the time
<ScottK> ajmitch: I agree on the +1, but think there should be some kvetching along the way.
<nixternal> you know it!
<nixternal> VP Cheney isn't from Texas is he? :)
<ScottK> No
<calc> hey i'm not related to Dick
<ScottK> Wyoming
<nixternal> hahahah calc!!!
<calc> he's originally from Mass i think
<nixternal> I didn't catch your last name until a little while ago
<nixternal> and of course the jokes started flowing :)
<calc> he was head of haliburton or something like that which was based in Texas, but he's not related to me even in the slightest, heh
<calc> my family has lived in the south US for at least 180 years (afaik)
<TheMuso> Hi folks.
<porthose> Halibuton is based on Duncan OK
<ajmitch> hello calc :)
<calc> porthose: pretty soon Dubai
<calc> porthose: there is a huge Haliburton office in northeast Houston
<ajmitch> calc: you've been hanging around ubuntu channels & doing small things for awhile, no?
<calc> ajmitch: more or less yea
<ajmitch> that's what I thought
<calc> ajmitch: i've been hanging around irc for 8.5 years ;)
<calc> on freenode anyway
<ajmitch> yeah I know, I've been around #debian-devel for awhile too :)
<calc> been in the ubuntu channels since late 2004 when they started up
<nixternal> calc: that doesn't say much for character...I have been around for a long time as well (IRC) and now look at me ;p
<calc> nixternal: true :)
<nixternal> 8.5 years ago ey, so that long, something tells me prior to IRC, you may have been a Mud user? :)
<calc> nixternal: i've been an irc user for ~ 12.5 years before that I was on BBS back into the mid 80s
<nixternal> yup, Mud BBS was the greatest!
<calc> didn't get internet access until around feb/mar 95, which was also when i started using linux
<nixternal> ya, that is the same here...I was in the military...had super fast internet and a lot of floppies :)
* calc coughs after reading ScottK's assessment of his post to motu-council
<nixternal> and a Packard Bell
* calc probably could have worded it better, heh
* nixternal goes to school
<ScottK> calc: You told it straight which is fine with me.
<RainCT> good night
<calc> ScottK: ok :)
* pochu wishes calc good luck
<calc> does stefan potyra use irc?
<crimsun> sispoty is his IRC nick.
<crimsun> sistpoty
<calc> ok he's just not online right now then
<ajmitch> calc: seeing what an appropriate bribe would be?
<calc> ajmitch: heh something like that ;)
<ajmitch> sigh, why does gutsy-changes use the maintainer field now, instead of Changed-By?
<calc> ajmitch: i sent him an email and hadn't heard anything back yet so was wondering if he was on irc..
<crimsun> I think it uses both
<calc> ajmitch: to annoy you obviously ;)
<stgraber> ajmitch: it's a known bug
<crimsun> I'm getting it and ubuntu-motu is getting spammed
<ajmitch> calc: I suspected as much
* calc tries to locate his reset debian password
<Fujitsu> Bug #122086
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122086 in soyuz "From: header in -changes@ mails are wrong" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122086
<ajmitch> calc: you lost it?
<TheMuso> How reliable is LVM in gutsy currently?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: I haven't lost data yet
<crimsun> I'm using LVM fine
<calc> ajmitch: i forgot what it was, long hard to remember string
<TheMuso> What about snapshots/
<ajmitch> though I've still had to manually run lvm in the initramfs to boot
<crimsun> I'm not that sophisticated, sorry
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I've been using it for 1.5 months, though haven't rebooted in a couple of days.
<TheMuso> Right.
* TheMuso ponders switching a non-critical box to gutsy.
<Fujitsu> Snapshots work fine, or I wouldn't be able to use sbuild.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-26
<Fujitsu> I'm not brave enough to try root on LVM on crypto in a development release, though.
<TheMuso> ok sounds good. Looks like I'll make the change when tribe 2 comes out.
<Ng> StevenK: thanks for the tip, dpatch-edit-patch is very cool :)
<Ng> we'll ignore the fact that the patch I'm using is complete junk ;)
<TheMuso> {dpatch,cdbs}-edit-patch both rock.
<TheMuso> Or whatever the cdbs simple patchsys one is called.
<TheMuso> Revu. Like using dial-up again.
<calc> TheMuso: ouch, dialup, i remember that from the 80-90s ;)
<TheMuso> calc: I was on dial-up from 1997-2004.
<TheMuso> And most of that was 28.9.
<TheMuso> 28.8 even
<calc> i got my first faster than dialup in early 1998
<calc> of course that was because i worked for a telco
<calc> got free isdn then later dsl
<TheMuso> nice.
<calc> when i stopped working there in late 2002 i actually had to pay for broadband and it was slower than what i got free, heh
<calc> i had fullrate adsl for free while i worked there which was 8Mbps in theory, actual download speeds were in the high 5Mbps range
<calc> very useful for my Debian KDE work
<calc> i think uploads were around 640Kbps
<calc> maintaining large packages over dialup would be very painful
<crimsun> I use a shell myself.
<calc> its going to take over 12m just to download the source of oo.o on broadband here
<crimsun> come next week, however, I'll hopefully have fios, but I'm not too sure about that.  Cable will suffice.
<calc> hmm how fast is fios there?
<crimsun> no idea, I'm on 56kbps dialup, so anything's going to be faster.
<calc> crimsun: yea i hear fios is much faster than even cable/adsl in design anyway, so should help you out a lot
<calc> crimsun: whether they actually let you do something useful with that speed though is a question
<TheMuso> What is fios?
<calc> lol
<calc> crimsun: I believe running xserver-xgl on gentoo for a samba server is the bestest thing evar.
* calc is looking at an old irc log
<calc> TheMuso: fiber to the curb
<TheMuso> Ah.
<calc> TheMuso: well it expands to something else but that is the gist
* TheMuso would love to see that in the broadband backwater that is Australia.
<calc> TheMuso: where you pay per byte... that wouldn't be too much good would it? ;)
<TheMuso> calc: From what I have read from some people commenting about net usage in general, there is a prediction that the whole world will eventually be paying for the quota they use in some way or another. unlimited is not sustainable long term.
<calc> well at least at the time i was working for the telco/isp average utilization was so low that there was no need
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<calc> things may have changed since then but even at that time .au had major caps on bandwidth usage
<TheMuso> But times ar echanging, with more content going online.
<calc> iirc the average usage even for dsl was in the low 10s of kbps, less than what a dialup user could do
<TheMuso> calc: Its actually not bad once you get used to it. Our biggest problem is our monopolistic telco.
<calc> we had whole neighborhoods on a single backend T1
<TheMuso> Wow.
<calc> several years ago a 10Mbps unlimited connection could be had for (iirc) $3K/mo for providers
<calc> so per GB charges would need to be pretty low to be reasonable
<TheMuso> Well a majority of our traffic is not local, so we have to pay for the long pipes somehow.
<calc> yea that is true
<calc> hmm at those old prices (dunno what current are) its ~ $1/GB so I guess that was still kinda expensive
<calc> for the provider i mean
<calc> so they can't afford for lots of users to be using several hundred GB/mo
<TheMuso> keescook: Thanks for cleaning up ubuntu-{sync,cd}. I mean to rework them more so soon, but thats a good start.
<calc> but if you actually set the cap to say 50GB/mo you average usage will be much lower than that so you end up making a fairly large profit
<TheMuso> yeah.
<ajmitch> since then, we've seen things like bittorrent & youtube & various other things come along
<keescook> TheMuso: sure!  I was in there doing work anyway, figured I'd poke around at it.  :)
<TheMuso> I actually think once they are reworked more, that they would be useful scripts for testers.
<TheMuso> Save them the hastle of worrying about how to rsync images.
<calc> ajmitch: yea average usage has likely increased a bit especially with the combination of things like youtube and myspace
<TheMuso> ajmitch: He don't remind me. Internode recently hiked prices, claiming such reasons for doing so.
<pygi> bashelier, around?
<ajmitch> calc: please don't swear
<nixternal> ajmitch: how is myspace swearing? everyone has found your account ont here :)
<ajmitch> nixternal: you must be thinking of hobbsee's myspace page
<ajmitch> http://myspace.com/creamier_oak
<StevenK> Oh twitch.
<StevenK> I don't even need to see it to remember my eyes bleeding.
<ajmitch> hah
<calc> ajmitch: er i'm confused, or blind, did i swear?
<calc> that page is scary
<ajmitch> calc: the m word
<calc> oh ok
<ajmitch> the page isn't as scary as its owner
<TheMuso> lol
<calc> almost as scary as the size of the ooo diff.gz
<calc> 73018011 for dapper
<StevenK> Yowch!
<ajmitch> oh dear
<StevenK> How the heck is it 73Mb?
<calc> ooo=build dir is 313mb
<TheMuso> ouch
<TheMuso> But OoO is a beast.
<TheMuso> I'll bet there is a lot of optimization that oculd be done to it.
<TheMuso> could be
<calc> bbl
<nixternal> ajmitch: gahahahahahahaha! why did she do that?
<StevenK> ln -s /usr/bin/oowriter latex
<nixternal> my lord, it made me feel like I was at a greatful dead concert
<StevenK> nixternal: She got strongarmed into creating it, and wanted to make it as irritating as possible.
<StevenK> I think she was sucessful.
<nixternal> well, she accomplished her goal
<ajmitch> with style
<nixternal> hehe, and a pony!
<pygi> bashelier, do poke me when you're around
<bashelier> pygi: I'm always around :p
<pygi> bashelier, I poked you a while back, and you werent :P
<bashelier> omg
<pygi> bashelier, as I hear you have ppc/sparc available?
<LaserJock> what's a good way of stripping off the last character in a string in a bash script?
<StevenK> There's a few ways. cut springs to mind
<StevenK> As does sed
<bashelier> pygi: a sparc, but it doesn't work anymore for now... I'm trying to get it working again :/ Is it about brasero ?
<pygi> bashelier, yes, again! :P
<bashelier> ^^
<pygi> I have a feeling second upload will fail *again*, but I think I've got it now
<bashelier> pygi: we could try a cross compiler for a first test
<pygi> this time I check tho :P
<StevenK> As does bash ${} expansion
<pygi> bashelier, later on today, thanks. it's 1:37AM, and I am going crazy entire day over k3b and brasero
<LaserJock> StevenK: thanks, I couldn't figure out how to do it easily with cut
<LaserJock> bash expansion might be the way to go
<bashelier> pygi: np, sweet dreams ;)
<StevenK> LaserJock: The problem with cut is you need to count. var2=$(echo $var | cut -b1-$(echo $var | wc -c))
<pygi> bashelier, no sleeping yet
<pygi> bashelier, gotta be sure if it'll fail (and it will :P)
<StevenK> Err, $(($(echo $var | wc -c) - 1))
<pygi> bashelier, and I have an exam in 6 hours, so .. not sure I should sleep :P
<bashelier> ^^
<StevenK> LaserJock: Clear as mud? :-)
<LaserJock> StevenK: sure ;-)
<ajmitch> or the other answer - "Use python"
<StevenK> LaserJock: Okay, I have a snippet with cut I can pastebin.
<pygi> bashelier, wake me up when it reports failure pls :P
<bashelier> pygi: will do
<ajmitch> var="foobar"; python -c"print '${var}'[:-1] "
<StevenK> $(echo $var | cut -b1-$(($(echo $var | wc -c) - 2)))
<StevenK> That's much more fun!
<ajmitch> I'm sure it is
<calc> back
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well, this is supposed to go into a package so it it'd be nice if it was clean
<LaserJock> I suppose it's not being used at build time so it shouldn't matter a whole lot actually
<LaserJock> StevenK: that seems to work just fine
<pygi> bashelier, it started building!!!
<bashelier> pygi: yep, I've noticed that :)
<pygi> bashelier, fail on ppc/sparc tho :-/
<pygi> which I kindof assumed, but it's still evil =)
<pygi> bashelier, rock on, I managed to break even i386 build xD
<bashelier> ^^'
<bashelier> ./scsi/scsi-get-configuration.h:864: error: expected ',', ';' or '}' before 'uchar'
<pygi> yea, well, lol anyway
* pygi prepares a new patch
<bashelier> looks like you'll have to check the #ifdef sources :p
<pygi> bashelier, no, I refuse
<pygi> I've got better idea
<pygi> bashelier, you get your sparc up
<bashelier> pygi: can't do that right for now, sorry, to noisy, and there are a few people sleeping in this house :)
<bashelier> pygi: but I can set up a chroot with a cross compilier, and see if we get the same error
<pygi> bashelier, sure, please do so
<bashelier> pygi: currently debootstraping ;)
<bashelier> pygi: just a short question... did you try to build latest upload in a pbuilder before uploading ?
<pygi> bashelier, ergh, no. that was indeed my fault
<pygi> but ergh
<pygi> I know the problem anyway
<nixternal> hola jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> morning
<pygi> bashelier, tell me when you're ready
<bashelier> pygi: should be in 10 minutes
<pygi> bashelier, fine by me, thanks
<porthose> MOTU's please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5730 thank you
<pygi> bashelier, poke when it's done :)
<RAOF> Does anyone have a net-connected Gutsy machine with virtualisation hardware?  If so, it'd be nice if you could test bug #122113.  The debdiff worked for me last night, but I won't be able to test against the new kernel untill tonight.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122113 in kvm "[Merge]  Please merge kvm-28-4 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122113
<bashelier> pygi: the chroot and the cross chain are ready, I'm installing the b-d now
<pygi> bashelier, k, lemme prepare debdiff
<pygi> bashelier, pm me with your mail
<TheMuso> o/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<crimsun> persia: I've uploaded the wxwidgets2.6 fix
<crimsun> I got your bug email about three minutes after the dput completed
<crimsun> (back in 20 mins - coffee shop closing)
<persia> crimsun: Thanks for the note.  I'm still building.  I'll push 2.8 when I'm done testing.
<TheMuso> Afternoon Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hiya TheMuso :)
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
* ScottK needs dramamine for that myspace page.
<Hobbsee> hrm?
<Hobbsee> which myspace page?  mine?
<ScottK> Yes
<Hobbsee> :)
<ScottK> It was in the scrollback...
<Hobbsee> heh, right
<Hobbsee> havent read that yet today
* RAOF remembers that his server is once again internet connected.  Woooo irssi!
<ScottK> Re FIOS, I have the slow FIOS and I think it's 7mb down and 2 up.
<ScottK> crimsun:^^
<crimsun> ScottK: unfortunately not available in my neck o' the woods, but cable will be loads faster than my current.
<crimsun> ok, time to use update notifier for this alsa-{lib,utils} business.
<ScottK> Ah.  Too bad.  
<persia> How long is reasonable to wait for a build?  An attempt at a candidate wxwidgets2.8_2.8.4.0-0ubuntu2 has now taken over 150 minutes, and the last arch-all build on the buildds was only 39 minutes.
<porthose> Any MOTU:  please REVU ampache http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5730 thank you 
<nixternal> persia: did you notice anything funky in the build log? I know if for some reason your package has .docbook or .xml files, building them takes a few because the build machines don't have internet access
<Toadstool> heya!
<persia> nixternal: The build log is fairly clean so far - it's currently regenerating man pages (and has been for the last hour, but wihout much output).  The extra-long build is local, so I don't think the internet access is the issue.
<superm1> hi motu's, I finally got around to updating this if anyone can take a gander: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5752 (gtk2-engines-mythbuntu)
<nixternal> hrmm, that is odd, seeing as I built wxwidgets 2.8.4 on Saturday at Barcamp for a wxwidgets talk, which was about as dray as a desert
<persia> porthose: Are you sure that CC-by-nc-nd is GPL compatible?
<nixternal> it isn't
<nixternal> none of the CC licenses are, unless that has recently changed
<porthose> persia: not sure will have to check
<persia> nixternal: I'm not sure about that: I thought CC-SA was GPL compatible.
<nixternal> I thought it was, but then the FSF said no
<nixternal> that is just what I think, that isn't a definite
<persia> nixternal: Ah.  I thought the FSF was only complaining about CC-BY-SA, but I can't find CC-SA (without BY) in the current CC license recommendations, so perhaps it doesn't matter any more.
<nixternal> it may not..there is a #fsf on here, however I idled for 3 days without one word typed or question answered
<porthose> persia: is this in reference to the flash module
<persia> porthose: Specifically, your package contains both work that is cc-by-nc-nd and work that is GPL.  I don't think you can mix them in a single package (but this statement does not represent legal advice).
<porthose> persia: well you know more about it than I do so I will take your advice
<persia> nixternal: I usually rely on http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/ as a source of FSF opinion.
<porthose> persia: I will get with upstream and see if we can get that particular component removed.  I believe all it is, is a flash player which is really not needed
<persia> porthose: Alternately, you might be able to have a separate package that uses public interfaces to connect (although I'm in no way familiar with ampache).
<porthose> persia: thank you for the look
<persia> porthose: No problem.  It's also good practice to note the status of the package in your request (such as "Please review ampache (link), it's waiting for a second advocate"): this helps reviewers understand  what they would be expected to do when reviewing.
<porthose> Sure will
<superm1> nixternal, its a shame barcamp was just this past weekend.  i'll be in town visiting my family this next saturday :(
<nixternal> ya, it was a very good time
<nixternal> CoDLUG event on Sunday though :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: there is a CC-GPL license
<superm1> what's CoDLUG?
<nixternal> College of DuPage Linux Users' Group - out in Glen Ellyn
<nixternal> LaserJock: I thought they got rid of that one?
<superm1> ah
<superm1> what time is the event?  I might be able to stop by and make an appearance before i head back
<LaserJock> nixternal: hmm, it's on their website, I don't know
<nixternal> oh, I was just reading something about the FSF and CC while researching licenses, and the FSF saying it wasn't compatible anymore or it was gone
<jsgotangco> i believe the FSF doesn't even recognize CC
<nixternal> I know at a recent Peter Brown talk he stated they didn't anymore due to something, that something I can't remember
<persia> jsgotangco: For which meaning of recognise?  There are at least comments about CC licenses on the FSF site, and I've seen CC mentioned in email from FSF people.
<jsgotangco> probably the past, must have changed stance in later versions
* jsgotangco couldn't recall either
* persia thinks licensing is dark and murky, and it is best to use either GPL, or the GPL-incompatible license of the package one needs to share code from.
<LaserJock> LGPL perhaps
<porthose> persia: until I am told otherwise I am going to treat these two licenses as incompatible.  I am contacting upstream right now to resolve this
<persia> LaserJock: That's a nice one, but it's now deprecated by the FSF.
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> in favor of what?
<RAOF> What, the LGPL?
<persia> LaserJock: GPL (no, not ideal)
<persia> porthose: Thanks.
<LaserJock> well that's pretty idiotic, IMO
<LaserJock> I'd maybe go with MIT then if they're getting rid of LGPL
<RAOF> Yeah.  I like the LGPL.  Is the MIT broadly similar?
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach 
<porthose> dholbach: good am
<LaserJock> RAOF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_license
<ajmitch> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hi LaserJock, porthose, ajmitch
<jml> Or, for more information than you can stand: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical
<porthose> jml: thanks will check it out for sure
<LaserJock> nixternal: why do you think the LGPL is deprecated by FSF?
<crimsun> because nixternal said so, and he's a leading Vista proponent.
<nixternal> I have no clue honestly
<nixternal> I am trying to figure out this damn ASP.NET crap
<crimsun> (I'm fairly certain many FSF members feel the LGPL is underutilised - it is, after all, part of the impetus behind the rename)
<LaserJock> I read on wikipedia LGPL article that people thought it was deprecated because of the "Why you shouldn't use the Lesser GPL for your next library" FSF article
<jussi01> Morning all!
<DarkSun88> Good Morning jussi01 
<jussi01> hello DarkSun88
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Sorry.  My mistake.  It's recommended for "special circumstances" only.
<porthose> persia: does ubuntu have a legal department to answer such questions?
<persia> porthose: I'm not aware of a specific legal forum in Ubuntu, but I've not investigated deeply.  Someone else might be able to answer your question better.
<porthose> persia: didn't know so I thought I would ask
<Hobbsee> porthose: email ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com asking
<LaserJock> debian-legal is also pretty good for these discussions
<porthose> Hobbsee:  sure will
<Hobbsee> porthose: as in, they'rethe archive admins, so decide on what goes in
<jussi01> morning dholbach
<dholbach> re
<dholbach> hi jussi01
<porthose> will try both I need to get this hammered out thanks to all
<jussi01> persia: Im still very confused about what I need to do about mnemosyne...
<LaserJock> hmm, the idea of the LGPL seems very cool to me, but it still seems library-specific and a bit long
<TheMuso> LaserJock: The LGPL is used for a bit of GNOME code afaik.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: gnome-speech is one that I know of.
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Because some of it can be linked against proprietary code.
* minghua believes the whole gstreamer platform is (re)licensed to LGPL
<crimsun> yes.
* Fujitsu believes that Gentoo is evil and should be removed from these servers ASAP.
<Amaranth> alacarte is LGPL :)
<RAOF> Why is faad2 listed on DaD but not on MoM?  Also, does anyone plan to merge it?
<porthose> Ok for those that are interested CC-BY-NC-ND is not compatible with GPL as per debian legal http://people.debian.org/~evan/ccsummary.html
<persia> porthose: Good job hunting that down.  Best of luck with upstream.
<porthose> persia: but now we know for sure, thanks for your help 
<Treenaks> Argh! My (compiz) windows now fade/unfade when I change focus.. annoying!
<RAOF> Treenaks: ccsm->animation->focus animation->none
<Treenaks> RAOF: that's new.. ok thanks
<crimsun> RAOF: I asked slomo about it two weeks ago; it's better left unmerged.  Debian's changes include questionable new source that aren't license-friendly.
<StevenK> RAOF: MoM has a blacklist and DaD doesn't.
<RAOF> crimsun: Ok.  That's a bit silly of them :P
<RAOF> THanks.
<RAOF> Maybe I'll add "don't merge" as a comment to it, then?
<crimsun> well, at least a reminder to inspect the license(s) carefully would be useful.
<nixternal> asp.net has my head spinning
* Treenaks hands nixternal perl ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> if only it was a perl class
<Amaranth> Treenaks: that's a featue
<Amaranth> err, feature
<Amaranth> We were deciding what animation options to use and keybuk saw the focus fade so it got added to the spec
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> persia: I need to delete one file in REVU. Can you help me? The package is gproftpd
<persia> mruiz: Best practice is to ask the channel generally (there are several who can help).  It will take me a minute or so...
<nixternal> it would be nice if you could delete your own packages like you can on mentors
<persia> mruiz: Should be fine now.  Try uploading again.
<persia> nixternal: These deletions are to clear the queue from failed uploads, rather than removing the source from REVU (which is a separate issue).
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> still, I would like to be able to remove, unless they have been commented on
<nixternal> then again, allowing that will only cause revu to become a testing ground for people to upload, say hey look, and then go on about their business
<mruiz> thanks persia ;-)
<persia> nixternal: While I believe that there should be more workflow-friendly ways to use REVU, I'm really not sure about allowing deletion.  Keeping it there means that the next person who wants to try their hand at packaging the software can start from the past effort, rather than starting anew.
<nixternal> persia: very true
<persia> Personally, I'm hoping that PPAs get ironed out sufficiently that C-U-U can add comments to needs-packaging bugs in LP and subscribe U-U-S for review (which just seems easier to track).
<persia> (add comments *with PPA URLs* to needs-packaging)
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> any MOTU please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5750
<persia>  stgraber: I just wanted to check on bug 82343.  Does this still need backporting to feisty?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 82343 in cryptsetup "init.d/cryptdisks doesnt create symlinks in /dev/disk/by-*" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/82343
<mruiz> see you later !
<persia> RainCT: It's good practice to mention the packagename and the status (initial upload, needs first advocate, needs second advocate) :)
<stgraber> persia: I think so, but I just did the debdiff, I'm not myself concerned by this bug
<RainCT> persia: ok, will remember that
<persia> stgraber: Ah.  Sponsorship has been requested: if sponsored, would you be following up?
<porthose> good night all
<dholbach> so who's going to package and upload ubuntu-dev-tools?
<TheMuso> dholbach: If you want that done very soon, I might remove ubuntu-sync and ubuntu-cd, as they need major reworking, as they assume too many things.
<TheMuso> And I don't think we should put out scripts that assume too much, particularly if it comes to where files should be found.
<dholbach> TheMuso: maybe just remove them from setup.py - so they don't get installed, but stay in the source tree
<TheMuso> dholbach: Good idea.
<TheMuso> I guess we should also make sure all scripts have a header on them explaining copyright/license as well.
<dholbach> yes, that'd be good
<persia> RainCT: openinvaders doesn't build for me :(  The tail of the build log is at http://pastebin.ca/589907.  Any suggestions?
<stgraber> persia: yes
<persia> stgraber: OK.  Thanks.
<RainCT> persia: let me try again on pbuilder
<coNP> Can any REVU admins please archive http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5704 for me?
<jussi01> coNP: you can archive it iirc
<coNP> jussi01: how could I do that?
<jussi01> Please help to keep this site tidy. If you think, an upload should be nuked, please post a comment stating this. If you find an upload already accepted in the archive, please 'archive' that upload. Archiving uploads is absolutly harmless, and can easily be undone. On new uploads, packages are automatically 'unarchived'. Thank you
<coNP> I want to archive but do not know how to do that... :)
<RainCT> persia: it's building for me with dpkg-buildpackage. pbuilder isn't working (it says "hostname: Unknown host" after unpacking the .tgz), but yesterday it was :S
<Fujitsu> coNP: Done.
<coNP> thanks Fujitsu 
<coNP> Please confirm that I am not able to do that on my own
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure if you need reviewer privileges to do it.
<Fujitsu> And I haven't got a checkout of the code around.
<coNP> okay, np
<persia> coNP: If you log in, do you see "Archive" links on the main page?
<coNP> I only see "archived uploads"
<persia> coNP: Then one does need to be a reviewer to archive (but one doesn't need to be a REVU Admin).
<coNP> cool, thanks
<RainCT> persia: and I don't see any call to PACKAGE_DATA_DIR on src/init.cc so I don't know why it complains...
<RainCT> persia: do you get the same problem if you ./configure & make the source from the .orig?
<persia> RainCT: Haven't tried that yet.  I'm still stuck on why it complains about init.cc:64.  I'll give that a shot.
<RainCT> persia: thanks :)
<persia> RainCT: I get a similar issue with `./configure && make`: it's still complaining about PACKAGE_DATA_DIR in init.cc:64
<persia> RainCT: Found it: declare.h defines GFX_SHIP (and the similar) to be PACKAGE_DATA_DIR"/"PACKAGE"/ship.pcx" (and similar).  It looks to me like the #include "config.h" line in src/init.c isn't finding config.h (although it might be something else).
<RainCT> persia: what's if you add   #include "../config.h"    after line 32 on init.cc?
<persia> RainCT: The build doesn't crash until I hit input.cc:64, so it fixes it (for one file) :)
<persia> RainCT: The confusing part is that I have liballegro4.2-dev installed in the chroot, so I wouldn't even expect to reach that point.
<RainCT> persia: do you also have liballegro4.2 (without -dev) ?
<persia> RainCT: Yep (it's a dependency)
<RainCT> persia: :S. well, should I add a patch for that?
<persia> RainCT: I'd wait until you can get it building in your pbuilder again, and patch it to make it work there.  I'm guessing that there's a missing build-dep (but I don't know which).  Once you've gotten that working, upload again, and try to get someone with a different architecture to try to build it also.
<RainCT> persia: it should work on my pbuilder (it did yesterday). it isn't failing to build it now but it's the entire pbuilder that fails
<persia> RainCT: Right.  I'm guessing there was a package update in the meantime which killed it, but it's hard for you to test without a working pbuilder or sbuild :(
<TheMuso> Is MoM broken for universe? it seems that a package, thuban for example, was synced back in May, yet it still appears in MoM.,
<RainCT> persia: I'm creating the pbuilder environment again, let's see if it works then
<persia> TheMuso: There was a new Ubuntu-local upload in May
<TheMuso> persia: Ah, so I see.
<TheMuso> has anybody found that requestsync doesn't always get the correct/any changelog to include in the email?
<RainCT> persia: same, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27249/
<persia> RainCT: Interesting.  Does pbuilder have some debug option that might help to determine the issue?
<persia> RainCT: Alternately, does pbuilder work to compile something else?
<RainCT> persia: it doesn't even update (sudo pbuilder update)
<persia> Could someone who uses pbuilder please help RainCT to debug this issue?
<TheMuso> I could if I still had a pbuilder set up. :p
<jussi01> RainCT: is this on revu, i have pbuilder and i can give it a run through if it helps...
<RainCT> jussi01: yes, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5750
<jussi01> RainCT: without reading back too much, with pbuilder you need to run sudo pbuilder update --override-config if you have changed config files...
<RainCT> what i've seen now is that it says "upgrading for distribution feisty", but it's a gutsy environment
<RainCT> (created with: sudo pbuilder create --distribution gutsy    --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy universe multiverse")
<pygi> bashelier, poke
<jussi01> RainCT: ok, im not that much of an expert with it.... Ill run it through my feisty pbuilder anyway
<RainCT> ok, thanks
<bashelier> hey pygi 
<pygi> bashelier, can we get sparc on? I wanna be sure ^^
<pygi> bashelier, I overslept the exam btw :p
<bashelier> pygi: ok, I'm going to see if I can get it working right now, but I'm not sure at all :)
<pygi> bashelier, no worries now, I poked fabbione already so you don't have to turn it on :P
<bashelier> pygi: ok, thanks :)
<pygi> bashelier, thank you ;)
<bashelier> pygi: I hope your patch will work ;)
<pygi> same :p
<RainCT> "shingouz: unfortunately that looks like ubuntu has either a config problem or the original pacakges are somehow weird." (on #debian)
<persia> RainCT: Which package?
<RainCT> persia: that's about pbuilder
<jussi01> RainCT: seems to build fine here
<persia> jussi01: feisty, or gutsy?
<jussi01> feisty
<persia> jussi01: Hm.  Let me try that (I've been failing in gutsy).
<jussi01> here is a pastebin of the build if you want to see... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27251/
* RainCT is purging pbuilder
<jussi01> :)
<persia> jussi01: Thanks.
<jussi01> persia: np's. works in feisty for you?
<persia> RainCT: It looks like the build failure is either X86_64 specific or something odd about sbuild (I get the same error with feisty).
<RainCT> persia: what should I do so, patch the .cc files?
<persia> RainCT: Do you have access to 64-bit hardware to try to replicate?  If so, please test.  If not, try to find a volunteer to test / help with the patch.  I'm worried that just adding the extra include for ifndef LINUX_ALLEGRO might cause a different issue.
<RainCT> persia: I don't know anybody with 64bit
<persia> RainCT: At least I'd be willing to test build a couple times, let me know if you have a candidate.  Also, do you want me to send you buildlogs?
* ajmitch has an amd64 here
<RainCT> ajmitch: could you try if  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5750 is building for you please (to be sure that it's a problem related with 64bit)?
<DktrKranz> gpocentek, could I ask you a couple of questions regarding your comment in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5709?
* persia idly notes that dh_desktop is only meaningful when a MimeType is defined in the .desktop file.
<ajmitch> RainCT: sure
* ajmitch fetches at dialup speeds
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: yes
<DktrKranz> thanks :)
<DktrKranz> first one
<DktrKranz> chmod +x stuff
<DktrKranz> I inserted it because I received this lintian warning: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27176/
<gpocentek> hum
* gpocentek doesn't a browser at hand
<gpocentek> +have
<DktrKranz> np
<gpocentek> but I have wget hehe
<DktrKranz> :)
<DktrKranz> this is a summary: "This file starts with the #! sequence that marks interpreted scripts, but it is not executable."
<gpocentek> DktrKranz: I see
<gpocentek> in fact the problem is the #!/usr/bin/python in the .py files of the module
<gpocentek> it shouldn't be there, since a module is supposed to be imported, not executed
<DktrKranz> it sounds correct
<DktrKranz> I'll ask upstream if he can remove them
<DktrKranz> or adjust
<DktrKranz> in the meanwhile, should I ignore it?
<gpocentek> you can patch the sources to drop the #!* if you don't want to wait for upstream to do it
<DktrKranz> I already included dpatch to fix a couple of things
<DktrKranz> it's not a problem to fix it
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'll inform upstream
<DktrKranz> second one
<DktrKranz> shouldn't dh_desktop be used only when MIME types are present?
<DktrKranz> see also malone 119241
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119241 in debhelper "dh_desktop should only call update-desktop-database if MimeType field exists " [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119241
<persia> DktrKranz: That's under discussion in Debian, using it now wastes a small amount of CPU time for users installing the package.
<DktrKranz> it includes extra stuff, not needed this time
<DktrKranz> persia, I see, thanks
<DktrKranz> I think it should be omitted, for now
<ajmitch> RainCT: fwiw, open-invaders failed to build on amd64
<ajmitch> (on gutsy)
<persia> ajmitch: Was the problem with init.cc line 64?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> trying a feisty pbuilder run now
<RainCT> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> same thing for feisty
<RainC1> ajmitch, persia: what's if you apply this patch? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27257/plain/
<persia> RainC1: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27258/
<RainCT> persia: well, then I'll put "architecture: i386" util the author corrects this issue (I'm in contact with him, will report it)?
<persia> RainCT: That's a safe alternate solution.  Be sure to note why somewhere (perhaps in the changelog entry or debian/README.Debian-source) so that if one of the 64-bit porters around wants to work on it, they know it probably just needs a patch, or if there is a new upstream, the updater knows to change the Architecture: if the upstream changelog includes 64-bit support.
<persia> RainCT: Also, if you can find someone who could try powerpc or sparc, you might be able to include more architectures (which is always good).
<DktrKranz> I uploaded modified package of oggconvert in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757 following your advices. When you have time, could you please review it? Thank you.
<ogra> \sh, hey
<RainCT> persia: okay, thanks
<RainCT> Does anybody here have a sparc or a powerpc?
<TheMuso> RainCT: I have a powerpc.
<RainCT> TheMuso: could you please try building http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5750?
<TheMuso> RainCT: Yep, just a second.
<TheMuso> Just have to go back to dial-up to download it. :p
<ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<RainCT> hi Hobbsee
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey ScottK, ajmitch 
<zul> hi Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
* RainCT things it would be good to rename this channel to #ubuntu-hello :)
<Hobbsee> hiya
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> RainCT: I've just finished downloading, and will now ensure my build environment is up to date.
<TheMuso> Then I'll test builde.
<ajmitch> RainCT: it's only celebrities like Hobbsee that get greeted that way
<Hobbsee> hah
<RainCT> TheMuso: thanks
* Hobbsee is no celebrity
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yes miss release team person
<Hobbsee> heh
* Hobbsee doesnt have access to the archive, though.
* Hobbsee can say "do it" and it gets done.
<mok0> Hobbsee: hail oh MOTU master!
<geser> mok0: not mistress?
<mok0> geser: mastress perhaps
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: doesn't matter, we're still not worthy
<TheMuso> RainCT: Build commencing.
<Hobbsee> mok0: Queen.  I dont like the term mistress.
<mok0> ajmitch: we are yet to learn to control the Force
<mok0> Hobbsee: I said master, geser is the one to suggest "mistress"
<Hobbsee> okay, and geser in there then :)
<ajmitch> mok0: oh no, I'll never get to that level
<TheMuso> persia: How do you get sbuild to use the build-deps from the source package you want it to build, and not check the archive?
<geser> Hobbsee: does it fit that you are the queen and dholbach only the prince?
<TheMuso> rofl
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: ^^ re what I asked persia.
<xxxxx1> good morning all! :)
<\sh> moins ogra
<Hobbsee> geser: not sure.  why would dholbach be the prince?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I've always just assumed it uses the build-deps from the source, but I'm not sure about it.
<mok0> I have been packaging some binary-only software (for local installation only). I have made binary packages directly, but it seems somewhat tedious. Any thoughts?
<TheMuso> Sorry it does. I was missing a file.
<Fujitsu> That might do it.
<TheMuso> persia: Sorry, was missing a file. Sorted.
<TheMuso> RainCT: Ok, starting for real now. Just fetching build-deps.
<ScottK> mok0: It's a little tedious the first time around, but if you've set yourself up to use the packaging system, you'll thank yourself every time you have to do an update.
<geser> Hobbsee: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonobacon/524563148/in/set-72157600295669688/
<Hobbsee> heh
<mok0> ScottK: I was wondering if it is better to build a "source" package
<Fujitsu> mok0: Definitely.
<Fujitsu> It means you don't have to start from scratch each time.
<ScottK> mok0: Yes if you have the source.  When you said binary only, I assumed you didn't have it.
<mok0> ScottK: I dont have the source; programs are distributed as binariers
<mok0> binaries
<persia> TheMuso: Sorry for the late response.  Glad it's working for you :)
<ogra> \sh, http://www.ksta.de/html/artikel/1182404870319.shtml
* ScottK really doesn't know much about that - doesn't use any binary only programs.
<mok0> ScottK: I wish I could avoid it, unfortunately many people in my field only give away binaries :-(
<TheMuso> RainCT: Failed to build. let me know if you would like a build log.
<mok0> I have another batch of software that includes source, but with restricted licenses that prevents you from redistributing. I package everything to distribute on our local network (~25 workstations + servers)
<RainCT> TheMuso: was the problem with init.cc line 64?
<mok0> But I will upload everything I can to REVU
<TheMuso> RainCT: Yep.
<mok0> ... have 7 packs sitting there right now, waiting for review...
<mok0> (nudge-nudge)
<RainCT> TheMuso: ok, thanks
<ScottK> mok0: Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding...  Uploading to REVU is distribution.
<mok0> ScottK: I know, I only upload software with GPL or similar
<ScottK> mok0: OK.  I figured, but thought it better to make sure than stay silent.
* TheMuso is finding that the more he uses sbuild, the more he is liking it.
<mok0> ScottK: :-) btw, a lot of software comes with "academic licenses" that are free for academics but not for "for-profit". I think that doesn't qualify for Ubuntu
<ScottK> No.  I'd think not.
<ScottK> Good morning calc.  What IRC link?
<mok0> ScottK: that's what I figured!
<Hobbsee> morning calc 
<TheMuso> Heya calc.
<ajmitch> calc!
<ajmitch> oh man, CC meeting
<ajmitch> I'm obviously up too late
* Fujitsu might attend this one... I haven't been to one in about 6 months.
<calc> ajmitch: hello
<calc> ScottK: hmm?
<RainCT> are paste.ubuntu-nl.org submissions stored forever?
<ScottK> calc: You pinged me last night and said something about an IRC log/link that you'd gotten from (I think) sistypoty.
<calc> ScottK: oh yea, the one with mark about beryl
<calc> ScottK: from march
<ScottK> Ah.  That one.
* ScottK is never hesitant to speak up.
<Fujitsu> That was an interesting discussion.
<ScottK> Is not always a good thing mind you.
* Fujitsu sets ajmitch on ScottK.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: ?
* ScottK needs to go wash out his eyes with holy water.
<ajmitch> bah
* ajmitch is off to sleep
<RainCT> persia: put architecture as i386-only and wrote a long notice about the issue on debian/README.debian, uploading now
<persia> RainCT: Sounds good (but disqualifies me as a reviewer)
<ScottK> persia: Was the package otherwise good from your perspective?
<persia> ScottK: It eyeballed well, but I can't build, so I haven't run the lintian/linda checks.  Also, I didn't grep -ri copyright yet.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Eyeballed well from you says a lot.  RainCT, let me know when you have a new upload and I may have time to look at it.
<RainCT> ScottK (and other MOTUs):  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5758 (Open Invaders, i386 only, needs first advocate)
<afflux> I have a source-package that contains a file called asdf.py, I want it to get installed to/as usr/sbin/asdf (without the trailing .py). What (debhelper?) command should I use? dh_install asdf.py usr/sbin/asdf would result in usr/sbin/asdf/asdf.py
<ScottK> afflux: You need to mv it in debian/rules.  If you download the pyspf source package, you can see an example.
<afflux> okay, thank you
<TheMuso> RainCT: `is the package supposed to work on other architectures?
<TheMuso> And have you looked into trying to fix it, or asked upstream about it?
<RainCT> TheMuso: I don't know, but the website only provides binaries for i386
<TheMuso> RainCT: Ok.
<afflux> can anyone guide me through packaging an application written in python (a single file using python-tk)?
<afflux> I guess I got something wrong: I should use python-support or python-central for settung up the dependencies, right?
<ScottK> afflux: Yes.  Python-support is generally simpler for simple packages
<ScottK> RainCT: open-invaders is building now.  Just have a few minor editorial comments so far.
<afflux> should python-tk should be in the binary-package depends (hardcoded?) or rather in the build-depends?
<afflux> ScottK: ^
<ScottK> afflux: Does your package have a setup.py
<afflux> ScottK: no
<ScottK> afflux: With Python packages, it works a lot better if you have proper distutils support before you package it.
<ScottK> afflux: I'd find another package that uses python-tk and look what they did (apt-cache rdepends python-tk)
<afflux> okay
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<superm1> Hi ScottK
<ScottK> Hi superm1
<superm1> ScottK, have a few moments for a revu this mornin?
<ScottK> Perhaps
<superm1> cool: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5752 : gtk2-engines-mythbuntu
<ScottK> superm1: I will look if I can.  I'm pretty sure I don't know enough to get that package a complete review (I'm a ubuntu-server and kubuntu user, so gtk2 is pretty foreign to me).
<superm1> ScottK, It's a pretty simple cdbs based package using a debian/install for the theme.  I think the biggest possible trouble with it is debian/copyright if anything
<superm1> (there is no code actually compiled during package build for the engine)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> RainCT: Commented
<ScottK> RainCT: Yes.  Before you ask - There really should be a man page.
<persia> Does anyone have a good pointer to recent (post-Dapper) documentation on requesting a sync from a non-Debian source?
<ScottK> persia: Since where to sync from is a standard part of a sync request, why would any such documentation be needed?
<persia> ScottK: That was my fear.  I was hoping for some guidelines on sync sources, but I'll just document the repository in the request, and wait for feedback from those acting upon it.
<ScottK> If it's a repository we've never sync'ed from before, I'd probably e-mail the archive admins and discuss it first.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: alsa update is telling me to run asoundconf(1) set-default-card macro do i just run that in terminal?
<persia> ScottK: That's a good idea (and such a list is part of what I'd expect to find in the documentation I sought).
<ScottK> persia: Good thing you've got a lot of experience writing MOTU documenation.  Once you get through this, I know you'll do the right thing...
<RainC1> ScottK: thanks for reviewing it
<persia> ScottK: Of course :)
<ScottK> RainC1: You're welcome.  Thanks for contributing.
<RainC1> where can I read about manpages (and packaging them)?
<jussi01> RainC1: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-manpage
<RainC1> jussi01: thanks
<jussi01> :)
<RainC1> how can I validate a 'menu' file?
<Burgundavia> shawarma: you missed an "on purpose" joke
<persia> RainC1: Lintian does some basic checking (as "Informational").
<persia> RainCT: Spec is http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30046/2/menu-one-file.html#ch3 (although there is probably a more official source).
<jussi01> hmmm, do e still use menu files?? arent they replaced by .desktops?
<persia> jussi01: They aren't replaced at all, but Ubuntu doesn't use the Debian menu system by default.  It's still good practice to include the file, as it will be important if the package goes to Debian, adn can be shown in the Debian menu for those that enable it.
<shawarma> Burgundavia: aw.. who? where?
<Burgundavia> shawarma: your blog post
<shawarma> Burgundavia: orly?
<Burgundavia> ya rly
<jussi01> persia: aaahh, gotcha
<shawarma> Burgundavia: Oh, yeah, I see it.
<RainCT> in the .sgml, are dhfirstname and dhsurname those of the upstream author or packager?
<RainCT> because it says "Fill in your name" but then it uses it as copyright holder and author
<persia> RainCT: About the manpage?  If you're drafting it, you're the author (and the default copyright holder).
<RainCT> persia: yes. ok thx
<RainCT> should I leave debian or change it for ubuntu ("this manual page was written by ..., for the X system")
<persia> RainCT: Are you planning to push it back to Debian in the near future?  If so, Debian is good.  If not, Ubuntu is acceptable.
<RainCT> persia: ok, then Debian :)
<tarzeau> make it "This manual page was written by .., for YOU!"
<RainCT> lol
<persia> ScottK: FYI: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2007/06/msg00053.html
<RainCT> wow.. what a great connection I've.. 64 bytes from eh-in-f99.google.com (72.14.207.99): icmp_seq=5 ttl=234 **time=1462 ms**  XDD
* RainCT is going to restart the 3G modem
<ScottK> persia: Yep.  Just wanted to warn everyone.
<zakame> good evening
<persia> ScottK: My apologies: I should have been more clear.  My pointer is a followup to the email you forwarded - specifically covering coordination with upstream.  If you're interested, you might want to follow that thread (which isn't as widely crossposted).
<ScottK> Ah.  It's not that I'm especially interested as I thought others might be.  Thanks though.
* RainCT   *self.head* | *home.wall*
<Q-FUNK> keescook: here's the latest.  http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/x/xserver-xorg-video-amd/xserver-xorg-video-amd_2.7.6.5+git20070208-5.dsc
<Q-FUNK> keescook: you're welcome to keep the maintainer as-is, since I'm tracking bugs both in debian and ubuntu.
<keescook> Q-FUNK: cool; once it's accepted in Debian, we'll just sync it directly.  nice!
<ogra> keescook, any objections to get it to main ?
<Q-FUNK> keescook: how much time do we have until the big final freeze for Goaste?
<Q-FUNK> ogra: funny, I was gonna ask about that. :)
<keescook> ogra: I haven't looked it over in that regard, is there an MIR for it?
<RainCT> well guys I'll come back later, this crap connection isn't opening a single site
<ogra> keescook, not yet but i'll add one, would help a lot for ltsp to have it in main for geode clients
<keescook> Q-FUNK: we've got time before the _final_ freeze for gutsy.  :)  bryce was just trying to get it in for tribe2 originally.
<Q-FUNK> keescook: it was accepted in debian last night, btw.
<keescook> ogra: yup, cool.  certainly seems well maintained.  :)
<ogra> good :)
<Q-FUNK> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=q-funk@iki.fi
<Q-FUNK> -4 is in NEW, because of the -dbg target I added since -2 (only -1 was in NEW initially)
<Q-FUNK> but this is just minor changes to an existing package, so it shouldn't take long to get into unstable.
<afflux> It's driving me crazy. my package (a single-file python application, depending on python-tk) has only python-dev, python-support and debhelper in the build-depends and in the "Depends:" line "${python:Depends}, python-tk". When building in pbuilder it says it doesn't know the substitution variable ${python:Depends}. When building w/o pbuilder "python" is in the depends-field as supposed.
<afflux> What am I doing wrong?
<zakame> there's a dh_python or somesuch in debian/rules, right?
<afflux> dh_pysupport, yes
<ScottK> afflux: You can ignore the python:Depends warning.
<afflux> ScottK: well, then I don't have "python" in the depends..
<ScottK> afflux: ${python:Depends} will work in Depends (but not build-depends, IIRC).
<ScottK> The ${python:Depends} gets passed on to a part of the packaging system that understands it despite the warning.
<ScottK> Anyone up to give me a hand with an odd debian/watch problem?
<persia> ScottK: Sure.
<ScottK> persia: The package is pyyaml.  On my debian-qa page: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=scott@kitterman.com it claims it doesn't match, but when I run uscan in the source package it seems to match.
<ScottK> Help
<afflux> ScottK: I think it wasn't really clear what my problem is... http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27279/
<ScottK> afflux: Looking
<afflux> ScottK: no hurry
<ScottK> OK.  I understand now.
<ScottK> afflux: I don't think that will be an actual problem with your package.  I wouldn't worry about it.
<mruiz> hi all
<afflux> so noone would hit me because of that if I upload that to revu? ;)
<mruiz> ping dholbach 
<dholbach> mruiz: pong
<ScottK> afflux: As an example, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/i386/python-yaml/3.05-1 has only ${python:Depends} as Depends and see how it came out.
<ScottK> afflux: I don't think anyone will find a problem with that.  What I think you may be seeing is a pbuilder issue.  I'd ask you to research it further and maybe file a pbuilder bug.
<afflux> okay, thank you
<leonel> hello everyone !
<ScottK> Hello leonel
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: do you have a moment to proofread?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: sure
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: si this tribe 2?
<Burgundavia> not yet, need to write that
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue46
<Burgundavia> need to clear that before I start in on Tribe 2
<persia> ScottK: My apologies, but I can't replicate the problem reported on the QA page in any of gusty, feisty, or sid with that source (and I don't have an Etch chroot).  The file looks clean, and it grabs the desired source correctly when non is available.
<persia> s/n is/ne is/
<ScottK> persia: Thanks for looking.  I guess I'll whine to debian-qa then.
<mruiz> dholbach: As you know, I'm updating packages. Is it needed to update Standards-Versions in debian/control ?
<dholbach> mruiz: no, that's another change we need to merge, when we merge with debian again
<dholbach> mruiz: it doesn't make much sense
<mruiz> ok :-)
<mruiz> dholbach: thanks for your comment to add "Closes/Fixes LP: #n" or  in debian/changelog . Useful!
<dholbach> (LP: #n)
<mruiz> yes!
<mruiz> dholbach: thanks for your uploads... mi first contribution to Ubuntu (in devel)! ;-)
<dholbach> yeah :-)
<pygi> mruiz, congrats
<mruiz> thanks pygi 
<pygi> mruiz, if you ever need any help, do poke
<mruiz> pygi, sure !
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: just proof read and sanity check?
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: s/between MOTU and Launchpad development team./between the MOTU and Launchpad development teams./
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: s/ethusiasts/enthusiasts/
<ScottK> Burgundavia: I'd also say he's 'the' liaison, not 'a' liaison as I don't think there are others.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: changed
<LaserJock> are you guys talking about me? ;-)
<ScottK> Shhh ...
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<cbx33> ping imbrandon 
* Hobbsee fixes typos and such
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: done
* nixternal does the "I finished my ASP.NET programming midterm" dance
<nixternal> the only person in the entire class to do so at this time, and I have yet to pay attention ;p
<LaserJock> good for you :-)
<nixternal> our teacher could teach her way out of a wet paperbag, but thanks to google, blood, sweat, and tears, it is finally finished!
<nixternal> that was the biggest pain in the arse
<Hobbsee> :D
<nixternal> if any of you ever think about taking a asp.net class, DON'T!
<LaserJock> I don't think my uni offers any language-specific classes, at least I couldn't find any
<nixternal> IIT, UIC, all of the tech schools here do
<mok0> Is that a two-way merge?
<ScottK> nixternal: But won't that be really useful with your Vista setup?
<nixternal> I actually used Vista for the first time last night
<nixternal> not really used, but checked it out
<ScottK> Finally, a confession...
<nixternal> and my lord, I don't know if it is because I haven't used windows in a super long time, but Vista was confusing to me
<nixternal> i.e. trying to change the resolution was a little difficult at first
<nixternal> I will admit, Windows stayed consistant for a long time, but they really screwed the pooch with Vista
<nixternal> it does look pretty imho
<pygi> nixternal, patience ;)
<pygi> don't hold me for my word, but watch out for new nautilus outside the gnome project =)
<pygi> you'll be impressed =)
* ScottK sat next to a guy who had Vista for a few days during a test event and the pretty looked boring by the 2nd day to him.
<nixternal> guess I will have to check out gnome when that happens
<nixternal> ScottK: probably the same here, I am not one for the eyecandy as I am for the functionality, usability, and speed
<superm1> nixternal, you used it for the first time last night?  I thought you were the the big vista proponent as indicated by !nixternal ?
<superm1> :)
<nixternal> hehe, nope, honestly was the first time...I don't know how that started *cough*crimsun*cough*
<superm1> nixternal, what is the CoDLUG event this weekend and what time Sunday?
<nixternal> 10am to 4pm, and from 12pm to 4pm Ubuntu Chicago will be doing their little thing as well
<nixternal> everyone just gets together and hangs out, every now and then we have a good talk
<geser> LaserJock: Hi, should the Ubuntu TeX team be also bug contact for the latex-beamer package?
<nixternal> I am hoping for a good talk on Symfony this weekend though
<superm1> well i'll see what time my brother's grad. party is, and I might be able to stop by
<nixternal> cool
<nixternal> don't forget your gpg key if you do stop by
<superm1> will i be signing anything?
<nixternal> just my key and anyone else who has one :)
<superm1> ah :)
<mruiz> What is better in debian/changelog : (Closes LP: #n) or (Fixes LP: #n) ?
<LaserJock> geser: I'm not sure, I wanted to kinda keep it small to start with
<nixternal> LP: #n
<nixternal> no closes or fixes according to the spec, just (LP: #n)
<LaserJock> geser: latex-beamer belongs to MOTU Science at the moment
<geser> shouldn't MOTU science be set up as bug contact in that case?
<mruiz> nixternal, thanks :-) From the official  announcement: "You can place any explanatory text that you like around it, so long as the pattern "LP: #" precedes the bug number."
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> I just read that as well :)
<tsmithe> can i get reviews for all the ubuntustudio-* packages on revu?
<nixternal> different from the spec, but you are correct
<nixternal> speaking of Ubuntu Studio, wow what a hit it was at Barcamp this weekend when they were doing MythTV stuff
<geser> LaserJock: I stumbled across bug #122139 but I haven't checked it yet
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122139 in latex-beamer "latex beamer class unusable since tex upgrade" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122139
<tsmithe> nixternal, really? wow
<tsmithe> _MMA_, ^^
<nixternal> I was impressed, this weekend if you were using Linux, you were using something *buntu, Debian, or Foresight
<mruiz> nixternal, for more information: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000298.html
<nixternal> and the *buntu side outweighed the others like 10 to 1 I am willing to bet
<tsmithe> \o/
<nixternal> mruiz: ya, that is where I just read that
<mruiz> :-)
<nixternal> they had 1 or 2 ubuntustudio boxes running movies all weeekend long..I was impressed..I never had the urge to do a setup like that before until really seeing it in action
<_MMA_> :)
<tsmithe> cool
<nixternal> now I just need you guys to send me some money ;p
<_MMA_> ;)
<nixternal> no I said money, not a :)
<nixternal> hehe
<superm1> #/join #ubuntu-chicago
<superm1> whoops .
<nixternal> ya, that will work ;p
* tsmithe wonders (well, actually he doesnt) that MOTUs always hide when he asks for reviews :p
<pygi> :P
<jussi01> lol
<LaserJock> geser: oh, that's no good. I was going to try beamer out :/
<tsmithe> LaserJock, wanna pass your eye over my packages?
<geser> LaserJock: therefore it would be good if the TeX group would be bug contact for it :)
<ScottK> Is there a process for asking the archive admins for approve a universe upload when Main is frozen or is it just harrass whoever you can catch?
<geser> LaserJock: isn't the MOTU Science team bug contact for its packages?
<pygi> ScottK, whoever you can catch
<geser> ScottK: either ask politely or wait. They are processed unregularly.
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: thanks
<ScottK> geser: Was kidding about the harrass part.
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: no problem
<LaserJock> geser: yes
<geser> LaserJock: I'm asking because LP doesn't list a bug contact for latex-beamer
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> to MOTU Land: kiko appologizes for the "Triaged bugs disappear" bug, it was indeed a regression and will be fixed today
<RainCT> Hi
<ScottK> LaserJock: Great and thanks to both of you for following up on it.  It might be useful to suggest they look at their pre-release test procedures and see what they might change to catch such a regression before the release in the future.
<LaserJock> yes, kiko said they will probably start redirection LP Beta Testers to edge before a rollout
<LaserJock> to do just that
<ScottK> LaserJock: Sounds good.
<lousygarua> Did anyone thought of creating some kind of ''motu rating system'' so when u search for a new package u can see if determine if it's already stable and mature or it's still just a piece of crap in development?
<LaserJock> well, the rating system in in Add/Remove Applications is sort of for that
<pygi> but *very* sortof
<LaserJock> heh, yes
<LaserJock> bbl
<lousygarua> Laserjock: pygi: too 'sortof'
<mruiz> hi. I was building a package (updated) with pbuilder and got an error during the process: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27289/ Any ideas?
<AndyP> mruiz: 01_gconf-breakage.diff is failing to be applied for whatever reason... maybe the source file has changed?
<mruiz> AndyP, then  I have to update the patch...
<AndyP> mruiz: or remove it if the bug it fixes has been fixed upstream (best case scenario)
<mruiz> AndyP, in this case, I have to update it :-(
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hello DarkSun88 
<DarkSun88> Hi xxxxx1 
<LaserJock> nifty, dell added a new laptop to the Ubuntu line
<pygi> LaserJock, url?
<ScottK> Any news on if people are buying them?
<LaserJock> just go to dell.com/ubuntu and hit Shop for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> I just got an email from a guy in my LUG
<LaserJock> who works for a local Dell distributor
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5766  please review again :)
<pygi> LaserJock, which one is new?
<LaserJock> 1420N laptop I think
<pygi> right
* pygi is thinking of getting a new macbook instead of his current 12'' laptop
<pygi> a bit expensive, but :-/
<LaserJock> well, I was reading an interesting forum thread about Dell not selling Ubuntu machines to businesses
<LaserJock> or educational institutions
<LaserJock> which is sad because I was thinking of trying to buy one for my lab
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I called about this. Got the same result as the thread. I have a small-business card :(
<LaserJock> I think it *must* be because of RHEL and SLED
<LaserJock> because I don't see how it would make any difference
<LaserJock> I should try it with my bosses uni card and see what happened ;-)
* _MMA_ *shrugs* I was just told it wasnt offered as a option for businesses. But I agree with you .
<LaserJock> well, it sucks because I was going to make that a big selling point
<LaserJock> my uni basically *only* buys Dell and Apple
<LaserJock> so if I can get an Ubuntu box through the academic Dell section then it's very cool
<_MMA_> Thats a common case. Id love to see Dells official response/position.
<ScottK> Cool.  I did some work last year that may have, in a VERY small way, contributed to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/07/us_navy_loves_open_source/
<Adri2000> crimsun: bug #120278: can we close the vlc task?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120278 in vlc "[Gutsy]  VLC Crashes instantly fails to Start" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120278
<RainCT> any revu admin there?
<RainCT> is it normal that the .orig.tar.gz isn't uploaded on dput if I've already submited the same package a few times?
<ScottK> RainCT: How did you build the source package?
<man-di> RainCT: dput uploads what is listed in the .changes file
<RainCT> man-di: oh, why isn't it there then? (I did debuild -S)
<man-di> RainCT: debuild -S -sa
<man-di> -sa forces inclusion of orig tarball if pacakge is not -1
<Q-FUNK> bryce: ?
<bryce> heya
<RainCT> man-di: ok, thanks. was using -sa before but since iirc I saw it without it on the Debian guide I stopped using it
<Q-FUNK> bryce: I just replied to your e-mail.  see if you agree with the overall issues and if you have any idea on how to best resolve this.
<bryce> ok
<man-di> RainCT: normally you dont need -sa but for REVU you need it
<RainCT> man-di: ah ok
<Q-FUNK> bryce: my main idea is to regroup all Geode ODM around a single mailing list and git server where they can freely discuss patches and commit them, similar to kernel.org but Geode-specific. 
<Q-FUNK> bryce: the main obstacle is AMD's commitment to the OLPC and how it leaves others such as the Linutop and Pepper in the dust.
* bryce nods
<RainCT> ScottK: with build the source package you meant debuild?
<ScottK> RainCT: As in did you debuild -S -sa?  If so, the orig.tar.gz should be included.
<RainCT> ScottK: yes, man-di appointed me about that. it's now online there http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5770 :)
<ScottK> Did you see my comment?
<RainCT> ScottK: now yes. (the description was mostly copy-pasted :p)
<ScottK> OK.  Just remember that the description shows up lots of places (like packages.ubuntu.com) and so if it's written poorly, it reflects poorly on Ubuntu.
<RainCT> ScottK: sure the signature line should be cut into two in the changelog? never seen it like that
<ScottK> RainCT: I don't think so, but I will confess to being unsure.  The actual changelog entries must be wrapped at 79 chars, but the signature line I don't know.
* ScottK looks over his sholder for help....
<RainCT> (if there's any REVU admin here, uploads 5766 and 5768 are incorrect duplicates of 5769)
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, wrapped everything beside that. uploading now
<ScottK> OK
<RainCT> does revu automatically delete uncomplete downloads?
<RainCT> s/uncomplete/incomplete
<coNP> RainCT: I think, no
<RainCT> then, is some body here that can delete them?
<ScottK> RainCT: No need.  They are superceded, but kept for history for (I think) 6 months.
<RainCT> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of open-invaders_0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ScottK> It's useful to diff new uploads and only look at the changed parts.
<ScottK> RainCT: dput -f your update.
<RainCT> I already have the -f there
<ScottK> Ah
<coNP> ScottK: I guess it is an incomplete upload that would need dcut, what is not supported
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> RainCT: If you have an incomplete upload like that you need a REVU admin to delete it (I'm not a revu admin).
<RainCT> yes, I realised that I had forgot something on half of the download and aborted it. that's why I'm asking if it gets deleted autoamtically
<crimsun> gnomefreak: yes
<ScottK> Ah.  Next time don't do that.  You need a REVU admin.
<ScottK> Let it finish and then upload the new one when you are ready.
<crimsun> gnomefreak: it's a usability bug; there's a bug open on it, and it will be fixed post-Tribe 2
<gpocentek> Q-FUNK: hello! I couldn't find the xserver-xorg-video-amd package in debian, is it already in the archive, or is it somewhere else?
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: it's in unstable
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: a newer version awaits in NEW
<gpocentek> ok
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: what sort of Geode hardware do you use?
<gpocentek> Q-FUNK: LX700 (on the linutop)
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: oh, a fellow linutop user :)
<Q-FUNK> ah, Gauvain
<Q-FUNK> j'aurais du alllumer
<gpocentek> hehe :)
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: well, it's already in Gutsy at the latest version, while Lenny has a slightly older version. my current release is in my own repository.  you're still mentioned in the changelog.
<gpocentek> ok
<gpocentek> did you manage to run it with an OLPC kernel?
<Q-FUNK> I haven't tried.
<gpocentek> I tried and it crashed everything
<gpocentek> ok
<crimsun> gnomefreak: bug 122252 if you want to sub.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122252 in alsa-lib "libasound2: user unfriendly update message re. default card" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122252
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: are you subscribed to the AMD Geode list?  please do, if you're not.  we need as much leverage as we can to help make AMD's Geode code as ODM-neutral as possible.
<gpocentek> ok, I'm going to subscribe
<Q-FUNK> gpocentek: bryce is drafting a plan to put together a git repository for all Geode ODM to contribute code to.  you might wanna give him your contact info and keep in touch.
<gpocentek> yep
<gpocentek> Q-FUNK: do you have an url for the geode ML, google doesn't help me
<RainCT> any REVU admin?
<ScottK> They rolled out fix for Triaged no showing up in default searches on LP.
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> can anyone shed any light on this
<cbx33> I have two machines on the network
<cbx33> they can ping each other fine
<cbx33> local nmap show a whole host of ports open
<cbx33> but I can' ssh or vnc to either from either
<cbx33> any ideas?
<RainCT> wouldn't that go on #ubuntu? (just say it because there are more people there)
<_MMA_> Odd..
<cbx33> RainCT, yeh i suppose
<cbx33> the other day I did setup some ip aliases
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> maybe the router is still holding onto those
<RainCT> ah, and REVU's please check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate)
<gnomefreak> coNP: it built here fine :)
<coNP> gnomefreak: yep as I said I forgot a pbuilder update
<gnomefreak> coNP: ok
<geser> cbx33: what's the error message from ssh?
<cbx33> nothing
<cbx33> just hangs
<geser> hmm
<cbx33> wireshark shows data leaving one pc
<cbx33> but nothing being returned from the other
<cbx33> even though PING works
<calc> got +1 from stefan :)
<calc> now i just need a vote from one of the remaining people... ajmitch, dholbach, etc :)
<xxxxx1> bye all
<RainCT> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate), thx
<Ademan> anyone know why gtkradiant (http://www.qeradiant.com/top/) hasn't been packaged yet?
<man-di> Ademan: because nobody did it
<Ademan> really? awesome
<man-di> Ademan: are you volunteering?
<Ademan> yep
<Ademan> but like
<Ademan> i've got a lot on my plate at the moment
<Ademan> so in the near future, but not this month probably
<man-di> ...who doesn't...
<Ademan> heh
<Ademan> well either way that's totally a package i'd be interested in doing
<man-di> cool
<Ademan> it seens a svn checkout is really the only way to get source of it though, no source releases..
<man-di> Ademan: some upstreams are *really* nice :-(
<Ademan> lol
<Ademan> by the way, if i'm not mistaken, packages should never install to /usr/local   right?   since /usr/local is really just for from source or from a binary installer stuff right?
<man-di> rigth, stuff should go to /usr
<mok0> Ademan: or /opt, according to FSSTD
<man-di> mok0: but not according to Debian policy
<mok0> man-di: ok didn't know that
<crimsun> StevenK: got a minute to look at bug 122417?  As I see it, this problem is intractable; some portion of hardware is going to be bitten by "too quiet" and some portion, by "too loud".  What do you think of simply not restoring the state (volume) on boot and letting KDE's Kmix, GNOME's mixer_applet2, or Xfce's xfce4-mixer handle the restore on user session login?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122417 in alsa-modules-i386 "[Gutsy]  Volume is too high in new install on HP Pavilion dv8220" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122417
<dan> hi all, anyone familiar with iozone benchmarking tool?
<blueyed> TheMuso: regarding bug 121458 - what should I do best? Send the (fixed) debdiff upstream to Debian?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121458 in httptunnel "[patch]  fix broken --stdin-stdout option that writes to stdin" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121458
<RainCT> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate), thx
<RainCT> good night (and please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 :P)
<gnomefreak> jdong: i subscribed you to a bug i would like to speak to you about when you get time.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-27
<DktrKranz> TheMuso, could I ask you a question about your comment in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757 ?
<ScottK> DktrKranz: His comment seems straightforward.  What was the question?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, I'm unable to determine which empty files he is referring
<DktrKranz> surely I'm wrong
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> Do you have debian/dirs and debian/docs files?
<DktrKranz> I've got debian/oggconf.dirs and debian/oggconf.docs actually
<ScottK> Are they empty?
<ScottK> Gotta run.
<DktrKranz> no
<TheMuso> ah I see what you are talking aobut.
<TheMuso> about even
<TheMuso> I applied the diff from revu, which didn't delete those files.
<DktrKranz> ah, sorry for that
<TheMuso> np
<DktrKranz> I didn't mention I renamed them
<TheMuso> I saw that you did in the diff, its just that they weren't deleted. No problem, all sorted.
<TheMuso> I'll give it another look over once I've gone through my morning email batch.
<DktrKranz> ok, thanks for your time :)
<TheMuso> No problem.
<ajmitch> morning
<TheMuso> Heya ajmitch.
<DktrKranz> night all
<tarzeau> yay http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/ now with ubuntu-best-friends links
* ajmitch should see if there's a standard way of packaging eggs
<pygi> ajmitch, we package eggs? :)
<ajmitch> yes
<jmg> ajmitch: python-pyinotify was a packaged egg
<ajmitch> I'm sure there are several
<ajmitch> but I know that it can be simplified
<pygi> afaik egg is just like a tarball
<pygi> kindof
<ajmitch> yes, it is
<ajmitch> with some extra info
<pygi> indeed :)
<pygi> that's why I said "kindof" :)
<ajmitch> jmg: pyinotify has nothing egg-specific about it
<ajmitch> aha, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonFAQ
* calc sees ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> you do?
<calc> hehe
<ajmitch> hah, cool
<ajmitch> WARNING: 'python-mechanize' is maintained in the 'Svn' version control system at:
<ajmitch> 'svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-zope/python-mechanize/trunk'
<calc> ajmitch: got a +1 from stefan today
<ajmitch> on doing 'apt-get source python-mechanize'
<ajmitch> calc: that's good
<calc> also got the ooo security update uploaded :)
<ajmitch> after much pain & anguish, I presume
<calc> ajmitch: downloading lots of stuff yea
<calc> ajmitch: the update was easy just required several GB of downloads
<calc> took around 4hr between dapper/edgy builds
<gnomefreak> mem leaks are not fixable in feisty are they?
<nixternal> depends on how "extreme" they are I am guessing
<gnomefreak> nixternal: it fails to allow you to use java apps. i have fixed version (not fixed for that but fixes that in my feisty repo.
<nixternal> what is failing?
<gnomefreak> hold on ill get bug number
<gnomefreak> bug 122442
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122442 in sun-java6 "Memleak in Sun Java 6 on ubuntu feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122442
<gnomefreak> lock up on eclipse, frostwire, he uses my java and it works fine
<nixternal> ahhh, I don't get the lock on eclipse, but the Frostwire issue was reported a while ago at Frostwire...is it an Ubuntu problem, or a general Sun Java 6 issue?
<gnomefreak> i dont know but gutsy's current java6 fixes it. this is after asac's patch for firefox symlink
<nixternal> ahh, OK, that might explain why I don't have the problem :)
<gnomefreak> i put newest ff in repo than had to bring java to fix the symlink issue and that java fixes teh issue with frostwire and eclipse
<DarkSun88> G'night.
* Fujitsu just got one of those evil Google job offers.
<jmg> Fujitsu: based at mountain view?
<Fujitsu> jmg: All three of them, yes. Very practical.
<AndyP> Fujitsu: my commiserations
<superm1> Fujitsu, evil?
<Fujitsu> superm1: Well, Google is evil, so their job opportunities must be.
<jmg> Fujitsu: are you going to accept?
<jmg> Fujitsu: are you going to work on goobuntu?
<pygi> Fujitsu, a lot of people are getting that lately
<pygi> jmg, it's just the interview now :)
<jmg> Fujitsu: are you pH.D?
<Fujitsu> pygi: I know.
<TheMuso> Sounds like spam...
<TheMuso> To me anyway.
<TheMuso> .c
<TheMuso> ugh
<jmg> pygi: 'job offer' generally implies an offer to begin employment, eg, the interview process has already concluded
<pygi> jmg, yes, but google never does that
<Fujitsu> jmg: Well, wrong terminology on my part.
<pygi> jmg, it's a scout that messaged him
<pygi> TheMuso, why spam? :P
<jmg> request for interest
<jmg> expressions of
<vbabiy> Hello Everyone
<pygi> hey vbabiy 
<vbabiy> I am a developer and I would like to start helping out the Ubuntu team where should I start
<superm1> vbabiy, particularly you wanted to help out with packaging?
<superm1> or getting apps you develop into ubuntu?
<vbabiy> well I have not start any apps yet, I was hopping to join a development team
<superm1> vbabiy, most of the apps in ubuntu are developed outside of ubuntu from upstream sources
<superm1> So is there an app you wanted to help out with?
<vbabiy> Not one in general
<vbabiy> I wish there was a quicken being developed for Linux
<vbabiy> for business accounting 
<superm1> you might want to get with the gnucash guys then
<vbabiy> ok
<superm1> what this group in ubuntu does is focuses around getting upstream apps into ubuntu and packaging them up into debian source packages
<superm1> as well as merging packages from debian
<vbabiy> superm1: okay what would we the best way of packaging up mplayer for svn to a deb package
<superm1> so if that sounds interesting to you like something you'd like to help with, take a look at the sites in the topic
<superm1> as well as
<superm1> !packagingguide | vbabiy 
<ubotu> vbabiy: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<vbabiy> okay I will take a look at that
<vbabiy> thanks alot superm1
<superm1> gl vbabiy, hope to see you in here joining to help :)
<vbabiy> I plan on it
<AndyP> !contribute
<ubotu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<vbabiy> I owe the community for create such a beautiful  OS 
<AndyP> that's worth a read too
<_Enchained> hi Motus
<_Enchained> nobody ?
<AndyP> a lot of us aren't MOTUs :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> I used to do that, and was told the same thing.
<_Enchained> ok
<superm1> TheMuso, would you have a few moments for a revu?
<TheMuso> superm1: Sure, as soon as I finish looking at some other stuff.
<superm1> cool great.  the url is at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5776 when you get a moment
<TheMuso> thanks
<_Enchained> TheMuso tou're motu ?
<_Enchained> you're *
<_Enchained> are you* (in correct english :x)
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Yes I am a motu.
<_Enchained> I've updated a package to review (+advocate :p) if you have any time
<_Enchained> (It had a +1)
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5777
<superm1> _Enchained, in looking is there a reason why you don't list AUTHORS as a doc?
<_Enchained> forgot it maybe :s
<_Enchained> should I put INSTALL and REDME in docs ?
<_Enchained> README*
<superm1> _Enchained, i'll see if anything else stands out after the build finishes
<superm1> _Enchained, the build looks clean :).  I would also ship those other two docs, if you look at the debian new maintainers guide, pretty much all top level docs are shipped (http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-docs)
<TheMuso> _Enchained: if you want to add those files, and let me know when you've updated it, I'll do my review from that point.
<_Enchained> yes
<_Enchained> in a few minutes
<_Enchained> (it's a little package)
<TheMuso> Sure.
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Oh a couple more things, before you go much further...
<_Enchained> yes?
<TheMuso> _Enchained: You don't need dh_installexamples, dh_installman and dh_link in debian/rules.
<TheMuso>  /c
<TheMuso> ugh
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5778 but a new (with corrections is incoming)
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<TheMuso> I still have it open in my browser.
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Ok, I see the new upload.
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Why did you remove NEWS?
<_Enchained> it xas empty
<_Enchained> was*
<TheMuso> ah ok.
<_Enchained> 5778 is not the latest
<TheMuso> Ok your newer one hasn't appeared yet.
<_Enchained> (the incoming one have dh_ ... removed)
<TheMuso> Anyway, I am running a test build.
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5779
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Ok, running a test build of your package.
<_Enchained> thx
<_Enchained> (If you can, there is also a package to remove from REVU)
<TheMuso> Do you mean to be archived?
<_Enchained> I don't know
<_Enchained> deleted I think
<_Enchained> It's a software not developped and maintened anymore
<TheMuso> Right.
<_Enchained> and cause problems ti build
<_Enchained> to*
<TheMuso> Whats the name of the package/
<_Enchained> gmencoder
<TheMuso> Ok will have a look. I am not a revu admin, but if needs archiving, I can do that.
<TheMuso> _Enchained: Done.
<_Enchained> Ok thx
<_Enchained> (I go to sleep now)
<TheMuso> Ok, +1 for the package.
<RAOF_> bluekuja: Hey, I looking at your gst-plugins-farsight merge (bug #114444) that's been stalled for nearly a month.  Are you going to finish that, or shall I?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114444 in gst-plugins-farsight "merge gst-plugins-farsight-0.12.1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114444
<TheMuso> RAOF: I think there is a reason why that wasn't competed. I remember conversation about that in here at some point, but can't remembre exactly what was said, unless I was to go log digging.
<TheMuso> completed even
<RAOF> Possibly because of the dh_gstscancodecs failure?
<TheMuso> Dunno.
<RAOF> Ok, I'll leave it for a while.
<TheMuso> Ok guys, no other deriv has look.
<TheMuso> They have artwork, /c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> woops wrong window.
<ajmitch> crimsun: very sad to see you leave core-dev at the end of gutsy
<TheMuso> ajmitch: hear hear!
<tritium> ajmitch: oh my, really?
<ajmitch> TheMuso: very apt, given the subject of his mail
<ajmitch> tritium: yes, apparantly he won't be online much for ~3 years
<TheMuso> ajmitch: haha
<tritium> Wow.  Is this on the -devel mailing list/
<tritium> ?
<ajmitch> tritium: yes
<TheMuso> -devel-discuss I think.
<ajmitch> right, they both end up in 1 mail folder here
* tritium looks
* TheMuso is not on -devel-discuss.
<tritium> That's depressing.  So soon, too.
<RAOF> Can we get him a "leaving Ubuntu" present?
<StevenK> Heh
* RAOF is serious.
* ScottK was actually planning to offer to buy him lunch after he moves since he's moving very close to where I live.
<Fujitsu> :(
<tritium> ScottK: where is he moving to?
* StevenK kicks packages.d.o HARD
<StevenK> Damn it all, *update*
<ScottK> Maryland, USA
<TheMuso> StevenK: Are your feet sore yet?
<TheMuso> Witha ll the kicking you do.
<RAOF> Also, it seems that the dh_gstscancodecs error of the farsight merge bug is due to a bug in upstream's build system
<StevenK> TheMuso: Come here, I'll kick you. :-P
<ScottK> StevenK: I'll hold while you kick.
<StevenK> RAOF: I figured you were, I just have no idea what.
<TheMuso> What? And make your feet even more sore? I don't want to hurt you.
<RAOF> StevenK: An "I ruled ALSA" shirt, signed by the sabdfl?
<RAOF> :)
* ScottK notes that the individual in question is logged on an although away, will have the scrollback.
<StevenK> RAOF: "I maintained ALSA for Ubuntu in over 4 releases, and all I got was this crappy shirt" ?
<ScottK> just in case anyone was thinking of trying for a suprise...
<RAOF> ScottK: Maybe he can suggest a present :)
* ajmitch is just having too much fun with php & ldap today
* ScottK has never seen fun, php, and ldap in the same sentence before.
* AndyP has... but with negatory verbs included
<ajmitch> ScottK: it's actually not too hard, just a thin wrapper around the standard ldap lib
<TheMuso> How busy is devel discuss?
<RAOF> Not terribly.
<AndyP> not very busy usually... sometimes there's a hot topic which people like to jump on but usually it's quiet
<TheMuso> Right.
* TheMuso ponders joining it after all this time.
<ScottK> It depends greatly on whether or not a controversial Launchpad change has just been announced.
<ScottK> ;-)
<ajmitch> it's better than sounder
<RAOF> Heh.
<ajmitch> where they're holding the annual debate over mail replies, top-quoting, etc
<ScottK> Annual isn't so bad.  I'm subscribed to one list where it seems to come up weekly.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<ScottK> Good evening Hobbsee
<RAOF> Afternoon, Hobbsee 
* TheMuso might exchange subscription to sounder for devel-discuss.
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee .
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, ScottK, RAOF and TheMuso :)
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: that'd be smart
<SlimG> Is there a indirect way of displaying the copyright file content?
* RAOF wonders whether gst-plugins-farsight 0.12.1 is partially broken on sid.
<Hobbsee> SlimG: /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/copyright
* Hobbsee hugs locate
<SlimG> Hobbsee: indirectly, I was thinking if there is an app/script to display the copyright file of a package nicely formatted? Like man <package> does for /usr/share/man/man<category>/<package>.<category>.gz  ?
<RAOF> Anyone feel like testing and/or sponsoring bug #122113?  I think it'd be nice to have working virtualisation for Tribe-2 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122113 in kvm "[Merge]  Please merge kvm-28-4 from Debian Unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122113
<Hobbsee> SlimG: hmm.  no idea.
<ajmitch> interesting, http://www.klikit.org/
<ajmitch> RAOF: you'd have to get it by the scary release people
<ajmitch> or is it not in main yet?
<RAOF> ajmitch: It's not main, though?  I thought only main packages required revu
<RAOF> Yeah, it's not main.
* RAOF should probably spell "review" correctly" :)
<Hobbsee> it's not in main.
* Hobbsee could ack it, but not shove it thru the archive anyway.
<ajmitch> interesting, I'm sure it was promoted
<ajmitch> given that it was mentioned in the tribe 1 announcement
* RAOF will check, but it wasn't when I started the merge :)
<SlimG> Hobbsee: Mkay, I guess the copyright file is formatted to be directly human readable and doesn't need to be preformatted
<ajmitch> RAOF: I just checked, it's not
<jmg> whats so great about klikit?
* RAOF doesn't like "You and the community are,  and will always be,  the main voice behind any decision".  Although I suppose that might work better for a distribution than, say, the Beryl project ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> RAOF: it's all good when the community is small.
<RAOF> And consists mainly of developers?
<Hobbsee> well, not even that
<jmg> Hobbsee: like bittorrent, it doesnt scale?
<RAOF> bluekuja: Ping, re: gst-plugins-farsight
<guest334> What is the current procedure for requesting GPG keyring sync on REVU? I've emailed two different @tiber.tauware.de addresses with no response.
<Hobbsee> guest334: ask on here :)
<Hobbsee> jmg: yeah
<guest334> What details should I provide for the request?
<guest334> Just the GPG key id?
<RAOF> Just that you want the keyring sync'd.
<ajmitch> amazing, mako on the board of the FSF
* ajmitch notes that the revu keyring is synced by cron nightly
<guest334> And this sync is with keys registered on launchpad? Some of the online Ubuntu documents imply that one has to explicitly make a request for a specific key, and receive a response, before being able to upload.
<Hobbsee> guest334: those ones are out of date.  it's with the ubuntu-universe-contributors team in laucnhapd
<Hobbsee> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<AndyP> bashelier: ping? did you package the new upstream version of podbrowser? bug #122392
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122392 in podbrowser "podbrowser depends on Gtk2::Ex::PodViewer 0.16, but 0.14 in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122392
<guest334> My question is with respect to REVU upload. I have registered with launchpad and am a member of the ubuntu-universe-contributors team. Do I need to do anything else?
<Hobbsee> guest334: it's done
<Hobbsee> guest334: you should be able to upload now
<guest334> I'll give it a try. Many thanks.
<SlimG> I've created a simple repos, but when I'm installing packages from it I get a warning that says this is "untrusted packages" What do I have to change/add in the repos to make the packages trustworthy?
<joejaxx> you need to sign the Release file
<StevenK> And add the key you signed the Release file with to the apt keyring.
<SlimG> joejaxx: How do I sign the Release file?
<SlimG> I've got a rsa keypair
<StevenK> gpg --sign --detach-sign -a --output Release.gpg Release
<guest334> Upload successful. Thanks again.
<SlimG> StevenK: Thank you!
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<StevenK> SlimG: It seems to be a black art - that came from script.
<StevenK> A script, that is.
* ajmitch wonders if TheMuso's kvm inserts 'ugh' each time that happens
<TheMuso> ajmitch: No.
<TheMuso> I am just well aware of it when it happens.
* StevenK chuckles.
<TheMuso> Well as of Gutsy, I won't be using speakup any more, so it shouldn't happen any more.
<RAOF> Woooo!
<joejaxx> speakup?
* joejaxx googles
<joejaxx> SlimG: yes that is the command the one StevenK gave you
<TheMuso> speakup, otherwise known as a Linux console reader, that has been coded so badly its not worth looking at the code, unless you really want to feel sick.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: ah ok :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: What are you switching to?
<TheMuso> StevenK: GNOME.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Speaking of, did you know JAWS on Vista sucks big time?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yes.
<StevenK> Ahh. :-)
<TheMuso> And not likely to get much better any time soon.
<TheMuso> But like I care.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Bart brought a new laptop with Vista Ultimate. I loaded JAWS, and Bart discovered it has a half a second pause before it starts talking.
<TheMuso> ouch
<StevenK> TheMuso: Within the first day, the thing had blue screened twice, too.
<TheMuso> Ok thats certainly not good.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Early the next day, it was getting Ubuntu-ified.
<TheMuso> heh
<jmg> heh
<jmg> isnt vista supposed to be highly accessible?
<jmg> you shouldnt need jaws?
<StevenK> The built in speech is worse than JAWS
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well I have finally been able to get my hands on a copy of ttsynth/IBM ViaVoice.
<TheMuso> StevenK: And you wouldn't believe what shared library it needs to run...
<StevenK> TheMuso: g++ 2.95...
<TheMuso> libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3
<TheMuso> from gcc-2.95
<StevenK> Yes, that's what I said. :-)
<TheMuso> Yeah I know, but I wnated to be more pedantic. :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: I've set up ViaVoice on four or five Ubuntu machines, I'm well aware. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: So I don't see it having a bright future.
<jmg> wasnt viavoice EOL'd years ago?
<StevenK> Didn't IBM just up and drop lsr?
<TheMuso> yep.
<TheMuso> They're known to do things like that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I can see it requiring what it did a few years ago, which was a seperate chroot because of the age of the shared libraries it used.
<TheMuso> Yep.
<StevenK> Which is a pity, since outloud isn't bad.
<TheMuso> Its a wonder Ubuntu/Debian still has gcc-2.95 around.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well its a very very popular voice in the blind community, particularly on Windows.
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> I wonder why Bart and Sean use JAWS then, as opposed to ViaVoice.
<TheMuso> Probably because of what Jaws can do.
<TheMuso> Just guessing.
<AndyP> bug #122224 - does my comment make sense and if so, how do i request a rebuild of saods9?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122224 in saods9 "Error while loading libtifftcl1.0.so" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122224
<TheMuso> I use outloud/viavoice/whatever you want to call it on my notebook, and find it very useful.
<TheMuso>  /c
<TheMuso> damn
* TheMuso is ready to rip speakup from the kernel and break it into several thousand more pieces.
<StevenK> Heh heh
<StevenK> AndyP: You upload a -Xbuild1 version.
<StevenK> AndyP: I'm happy to do so for you, if you wish.
<AndyP> StevenK: that would be great, thanks
<StevenK> AndyP: It will sit in UNACCEPTed until it gets shoved in.
<StevenK> Just due to the archive being frozen.
<AndyP> StevenK: ok, i'll poke the bug to reflect that
<nixternal> oi oi
<joejaxx> hello nixternal 
<nixternal> hiya joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
<StevenK> AndyP: Just doing a test build locally.
<AndyP> StevenK: oh ok, hope it's a simple one :)
<StevenK> AndyP: It's a rebuild-only upload, sure, but what you need to realise is that this package was last touched at this point in Feisty's release cycle, and the toolchain and dependant packages have moved on since then.
<StevenK> fitschan.c:29177: warning: value computed is not used
<StevenK> fitschan.c:29201: warning: value computed is not used
<StevenK> Oh, yummy. And the line numbers scare me.
<AndyP> StevenK: yeah i understand that, which is why i'm hoping
<AndyP> hmm :/
<AndyP> StevenK: you should've told me to do the test build, you know ;)
* StevenK shrugs.
<ScottK> AndyP: He'd have probably done it again anyway.
<StevenK> Yes.
<StevenK> It's not that I don't trust you ... Oh, wait, it is. :-)
<AndyP> heh
<StevenK> AndyP: No offense meant, of course.
<AndyP> StevenK: none taken :)
<StevenK> I have an internal list of people I trust to not check their work carefully, for which I will usually skip the test build. Everyone else gets a test build and scrutiny.
<AndyP> technically i shouldn't be trusted at all, my gpg key has no signatures ;)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and that internal list is 1 line long?
<StevenK> It isn't, actually.
<ScottK> Shorter?
<Hobbsee> i was assuming 1 line for a title...
<StevenK> I'm not going to name names, but it's six.
<TheMuso> StevenK: IMO no such list shoudl exist. if the person doesn't have upload rights to a part of the archive, you test build/check anyway.
<TheMuso> Thats what I do.
<StevenK> TheMuso: The checklist I have for promoting people to the list is arduous ...
<Fujitsu> vgthbjnkop'[
<AndyP> sounds like the debian NM process
<Fujitsu> Damnit.
<Fujitsu> People typing over my shoulder.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Right.
* ajmitch doubts he'll be on StevenK's list, since he never asks StevenK to upload stuff
<StevenK> AndyP: Much less stressful, and doesn't involve them applying - Don't call me, I'll call you, etc.
<AndyP> :)
<StevenK> Well, yeah, I've had to have seen your work first. :-)
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> saods9 blows up.
<AndyP> ho hum
* StevenK investigates further.
* TheMuso tairs his hair out at lazy people on the ubuntu accessibility list. You tell them to search for what they want, but they *NEVER* listen, and keep asking the stupid questions over and over again.
<TheMuso> I don't respond to them, and most people don't, but they still ask.
<TheMuso> I wish I could give these people a bloody reality check.
* TheMuso thinks that they have been spoon fed all their lives, and expect the same from the online community.
<StevenK> Whoa.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Chill. :-)
<ScottK> TheMuso: Feel better now that you got it all out?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Oh I'm over it now.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Its just that I wish you could tell thes epeople to look themselves or get lost.
<StevenK> Quote the bible at them? Help comes to those who help themselves, etc, etc?
<TheMuso> heh that could be an option...
<jetole> hey guys, I know this may be the wrong room to ask but #ubuntu is over crowded with no one who has answered yet so I hope someone can please give me a quick solution, when you un install software and the un install script for that software is failing which never allows apt-get to do anything about it and it reruns every time, how do I force this software off my system? vmware-player in this case
<lifeless> well
<crimsun> what does dpkg tell you?  Is it the package's prerm script?  Look there.  /var/lib/dpkg/info/foo.prerm
<lifeless> for starters please file a bug
<lifeless> so that we can fix the maintainer script
<lifeless> secondly, follow what crimsun asks you ;)
<ScottK> If you are using the version from the Ubuntu repositories.
<lifeless> good point :)
<calc> otherwise file a bug with whoever you got the package from :)
<jetole> well I don't think it is a bug, I think I manually installed two versions of required libs, one not current which caused the issue
<jetole> but I am about to look at what crimsun just said
<lifeless> what do you mean by 'manually installed'
<jetole> synaptic
<jetole> my mistake, not a download from vmware but I did select it from ubuntu repositories
<lifeless> then its a bug
<calc> lifeless: he may mean selected vs automatically pulled in (but i'm not certain)
<lifeless> you should not be able to wedge the system installing things from ubuntu
<lifeless> if you can, its a bug. You can therefor its a bug. Please file a bug with the error that occurs
<lifeless> we can immediately look at that to help debug whats going on and fix it for you
* StevenK sighs at CVS.
<jetole> right, I see a simple shell script here that is returning errors from another shell script, can change this to #!/bin/bash => exit 0 and have it remove it?
<jetole> and ok, I will file a bug report
* StevenK sighs that converting from CVS to SVN with 7 years of history is nigh on impossible.
* Fujitsu sighs that using SVN and losing immediate access to all history is probably better than using CVS.
* jetole is about to backup this file and make the changes I just suggested
<lifeless> StevenK: use the launchpad import service; convert to bzr
<StevenK> lifeless: Private source for $WORK.
<lifeless> StevenK: we do more than 7 hears history just fine. Alternatively you could use the cvs-import plugin for bzr
<Fujitsu> Use cscvs manually, then.
<Fujitsu> Or that.
<StevenK> Besides, the CVS repository in questions is roughly 5Gb.
<lifeless> which for entire conversions is possibly a better option that cscvs.
<lifeless> StevenK: and?
<StevenK> I've haven't tried selling people on bzr.
<lifeless> 'bzr svnserve' :)
<lifeless> ok, ok, thats still a little immature.
<StevenK> SVN fell over because there is roughly 17,000 tags in the CVS repository.
<AndyP> tags is one thing i wish subversion would do better
<Fujitsu> Merging is what I really hate about Subversion.
<StevenK> Merging in Subversion is better (only a little) than CVS.
<AndyP> i've never actually done merging with it but from what i hear, i'd dislike it
<ajmitch> it's not nice
<Fujitsu> bzr's merging is nice.
<StevenK> I don't mind how it does tags, I just wish the CVS to SVN conversion script would offer tags/<module>/<tag name> as opposed to tags/<tag name>.
* StevenK sighs. "cvs update: conflict: "blah" is modified but no longer in the repository."
<jetole> ok guys, I just traced it down to vmware having a problem stopping virtual ethernet which occured in /etc/init.d/vmware, I found the line within the script and had it return 0 which seems to have fixed everything, so thanks for your help guys
<StevenK> And add results in, "already exists, with version number x"
<lifeless> jetole: cool! don't forget the bug :)
<jetole> I am going to do that right now
* AndyP sleeps
<StevenK> You're talkative for someone sleeping.
* ScottK kicks AndyP so he'll roll over and be quiet.
* ScottK then goes to bed now that the noise level is lower.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<ajmitch> night ScottK 
<Toadstool> Hola!
<Hobbsee> hiya Toadstool 
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee!
<Toadstool> 'sup?
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: do you want the honest answer?
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: i'm looking at going to buy a new pair of boots.
<Toadstool> ew 
<Hobbsee> :P
* Toadstool runs away before she answers honestly another time
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> it is a bit, yes
<Toadstool> :)
<lifeless> you've got nothing on clan
<Hobbsee> lifeless: haha, i know.
* Hobbsee is not a girly girl.
<lifeless> I was just referring to the shoe purchasing compulsion :)
<Toadstool> girly girls are boring
<Hobbsee> yeha, i figured :)
<Toadstool> do you guys check whether a package could be useful before uploading or not?  when I look at REVU I sometimes feel like "wtf is this weird package for?"
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: we try to.  msot of the stuff on REVU sits there for ages
<jmg> Toadstool: the use case for many things is quite small
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: i suspect it needs someone to take ownership of the problem and such
<jmg> Toadstool: but the fact that someone goes to the effort of packaging and uploading means its useful to at least 1 person
<Hobbsee> or they're looking for experience
<jmg> yeah
<Toadstool> 1 person is quite a small set compared to the maintainance work involved 
<Hobbsee> the problem i see is that they upload it once, then never update it again, in a lot of cases
<jmg> i picked a simple app when i started packaging that i didnt use
<jmg> perhaps a voting system for revu
<jmg> that let the packages that are most wanted bubble to the top
<jmg> and the stagnant ones that 0 people want sink to the bottom
<jmg> i dunno
<Toadstool> jmg: that would imply that other people than reviewers actually care about what is rotting on REVU
<StevenK> That only works for new packages. REVU is not only for new packages.
<dholbach> good morning
<Toadstool> 'morning dholbach!
<Hobbsee> hiya dholbach!
<dholbach> hi Toadstool, hi Hobbsee
<RAOF> Any DDs want to sponsor the Specto package I've finally been able to test on Sid?  http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=specto
<RAOF> Afternoon dholbach
<dholbach> hiya RAOF
<Toadstool> RAOF: although there are a few DDs around, you'd better ask on #debian-mentors or #debian-ubuntu @oftc imo
<StevenK> RAOF: I can look at it when I've beaten saods9 into shape.
<Toadstool> nevermind :)
<RAOF> Toadstool: I've just had offers of sponsorship here, which is why I asked first :)
<RAOF> StevenK: It shoud be pretty simple, it's essentially the same pacakge uploaded to Feisty (it took me a while to get around to getting a working Sid install to test it on :-/)
<StevenK> I need to update my sid chroots, but they exist. :-)
* RAOF built a Sid VM, which is why I've been touching KVM :)
<Toadstool> alright, too much wine, 11pm, gotta be at work early tomorrow morning, off to bed, have a nice $time_of_day!
<StevenK> Ahh
<RAOF> Also, I needed an i386 install to test democracyplayer in, 'cause there seems to be strange i386-only bugs.  But not anymore :)
<nixternal> anyone here running IPv6 right now?
* TheMuso returns.
<Toadstool> nixternal: yep
<nixternal> Toadstool: dmesg |grep IPv6 |awk '{print $4}'
<nixternal> what does that give you?
<nixternal> I need to get a new router that does ipv6
<nixternal> probably not the best way to test for IPv6
<Toadstool> nixternal: gives me "routers" twice and "tunneling" once
<nixternal> dmesg |grep IPv6 and msg me the output if you wouldn't mind
<nixternal> unless of course you know a simple command that will test to see if you have ipv6 lovin' goin' on besides dmesg
<Toadstool> I don't mind at all but it's not useful
<nixternal> heh, it is just useful I guess if you don't have ipv6 ;)
<StevenK> ping6 ::1 ?
<Toadstool> nixternal: like a /whois showing that I am connected to freenode using IPv6?
<nixternal> I need somethign where I can test it for this app I am writing
<StevenK> Try and bind to an IPv6 socket
<nixternal> well I can bind here to an IPv6 socket, but my network isn't IPv6
<nixternal> hrmm, ifconfig, and then test with a mask might be the best way
<Toadstool> nixternal: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27374/ <-- is it IPv6-ish enough for you :)
<Toadstool> +?
<nixternal> Toadstool: that rocks! thanks
<RAOF> Oh, pants.  There's a reason g729 isn't enabled by default in the gst-farsight build system.  It's patented. :/
<RAOF> So, I can either fix the build system, or work out whether or not it's albe to be included in Universe.
<StevenK> RAOF: I strongly suspect the answer is no.
<dholbach> HAPPY HUG DAY
<RAOF> Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
<DarkMageZ> g729?
<RAOF> But we ship a bunch of other patented stuff in Universe, right?
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: It's a VoIP codec.
<RAOF> Crappy quality, but extremely low bitrate (8kbps)
<StevenK> I seem to recall G.729 is not distribuate (sp).
<StevenK> Mainly because I *think* it attracts royalatly payments.
<RAOF> Yeah.  Their glossy site does suggest that.
<StevenK> Geez, why can't I spell?
<StevenK> RAOF: How long do you think specto will take to test build and upload?
<RAOF> StevenK: A couple of minutes?  I'm not entirely sure how much inspecting/testing you want to do, but it's pretty simple.
<RAOF> Also, lintian/linda clean :)
<StevenK> 0.2.0-1 is what you're trying to get in?
<RAOF> 0.2.1-1
* RAOF checks the mentor.net page!
<RAOF> And it says version: 0.2.1-1
<StevenK> I was guessing the version, based on what's in Gutsy.
<StevenK> Can I impose on you for a diff of debian between what's in Gutsy and 0.2.1-1?
<RAOF> Ah.  Yeah, we rolled all the feisty fixes into a new bugfix release :)
<RAOF> Certainly.
<RAOF> StevenK: Just the packaging changes, or the whole debdiff?  It's a new upstream version, so the full debdiff is a bit big.
<StevenK> RAOF: "Can I impose on you for a diff of debian"
<RAOF> Bah, sorry. :/
<StevenK> RAOF: May I suggest reading glasses? :-P
<RAOF> StevenK: www.cooperteam.net/code/specto-packaging.debdiff
<RAOF> Except it's not actually a debdiff.  Too much merging :)
<jmg> what does RAOF stand for?
<RAOF> running around on fire
<jmg> revolutionary army of fascists?
* RAOF goes back to fixing gst-farsight's build system.
<StevenK> Why no dh_iconcache?
<RAOF> StevenK: Because Debian doesn't have dh_iconcache.
<RAOF> At least, it didn't last time I checked.
<StevenK> Surely that means you can't sync it, then?
<RAOF> Bah.  True.  I'll need to merge.
<StevenK> RAOF: You could test -x /usr/bin/dh_iconcache && dh_iconcache in debian/rules
<RAOF> StevenK: Oooh, didn't think of that.  Sneaky.
* StevenK smiles
<StevenK> They don't pay me the big DD bucks for nothing.
<RAOF> Want me to roll up a new package, then?
<StevenK> Er, wait, they don't. :-P
<StevenK> RAOF: Slap a new source package together and I'll look at it later tonight.
<RAOF> Ok.
<RAOF> When is later tonight for you, again? :)
<StevenK> And e-mail me your street address so I can bill you.
<StevenK> :-P
<StevenK> RAOF: Um, "at some point before I go to bed" :-)
<RAOF> What I mean is "where are you again?" ;)
* RAOF has a horrible memory for irc nicks :)
<StevenK> Roughly 20km west of you, you dork. :-P
<RAOF> Ah, sorry :)
<RAOF> *blush*
<StevenK> I have a pretty horrible memeory, too, but I can at least remember those who are in the same city as me. :-P
<RAOF> But your nick is too similar to ScottK's, too!  At least mine is memorable :P.  Not a lot of nick collisions with "raof" :)
* StevenK kicks ScottK
<StevenK> I was here first!
<StevenK> :-P
* pygi kicks StevenK 
<pygi> stop kicking people
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> urgh
<StevenK> pygi: You first. :_P
<pygi> StevenK, me what?
* TheMuso wonders how many people from Sydney will end up being MOTUs in the next several years.
<StevenK> There's two so far.
<StevenK> Er, three.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> you cant count
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Hm.  My autotools foo is not strong, but it really does seem like ENABLE_G729 is being unconditionally defined.  The appropriate line is "AC_DEFINE(ENABLE_G729, , [Compile ...] )"
<pygi> RAOF, nobody is an autotools expert
<RAOF> :-/
<pygi> After all this years, I actually tend to think not even it's creators understand it
<TheMuso> Its very convoluted.
<TheMuso> IMO.
<TheMuso> Yet its very powerful.
* TheMuso needs to learn how to use it for a few projects he is going to be working on, and having to implement it from scratch.
* RAOF is learning it in order to make the Tao project's build system sane enough to build packages from.
<TheMuso> Fun.
<TheMuso> Tao?
<RAOF> Ah, if I edit configure.ac in a patch, I'm going to need to manually call automake in debian/rules, right?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<RAOF> TheMuso: OpenGL/game stuff bindings for C#
<TheMuso> Autoconf as well I think.
<TheMuso> ah.
<RAOF> autoconf calls everything for you in the right order, right?
<TheMuso> RAOF: automake is only for Makefile.am I *THINK*
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's right.
<TheMuso> No, autoconf is one of the bits that needs calling.
* TheMuso found a good doco on it.
<RAOF> autoreconf?
<TheMuso> Let me see if I can dig it up.
<RAOF> Yeah, it's autoreconf that I'm thinking of.
<RAOF> I've got the autotools pdf from a recommended site on my laptop.
<TheMuso> RAOF: http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/
<TheMuso> Is one.
<RAOF> Oooh, haven't seen that one.
<TheMuso> there is a lot of stuff out there. Its just a matter of finding it.
<RAOF> Actually, yes I have.  That's the goat book :)
<RAOF> Now I need to remember where to put that in the cdbs build system...
<RAOF> So much for the "simple" gst-plugins-farsight merge :)
* minghua just patches configure.ac and configure, to avoid adding autotools to Build-Depends
<minghua> (not necessarily elegant, of course, but Works For Me)
<RAOF> Might be a good way to do it.  How do you get the configure patch?  Just run autoreconf?
<crimsun> autoconf.
<RAOF> Ah, since it wouldn't need to touch anything else.  Yeah, of course.
<minghua> I run the whole set of autotools, since I need to relibtoolize anyway, and I think autoreconf should have the same effect
<minghua> and I don't see any reason not to believe crimsun
<RAOF> Yeah, he's right.
<TheMuso> superm1: When you are around, I have left a comment for gtk-engines-mythbuntu.
<minghua> pay attention to your timestamps though, you may need some "touch"es to avoid automatic autotools invocation
<RAOF> Thanks.
<RAOF> minghua: Or, apparently, you can just not have autotools as a build-dependency. and it'll try but not error.
<minghua> RAOF: yes.  somehow the "missing" script can do everything.  but I consider that a very bad form for packaging.  just personal opinion, though.
<RAOF> minghua: Ok, so I'd want to touch configure, presumably?
<minghua> no, most likely you want to touch configure.ac to an older timestamp
<minghua> at least that's what I've done this afternoon
<minghua> check aclocal.m4 (if you have one) and config.h.in, and touch configure.ac to the same timestamp as the older one
<RAOF> Ok, I'll try that.
<minghua> I know very little about autotools though, the above recipe is from trial and error
<TheMuso> I think its arguable as to whether the generation script, commonly called autogen.sh should be included in releases.
<RAOF> It normally isn't, and I wholeheartedly support that.  The release should already have a build system :)
<TheMuso> Yeah.
<TheMuso> Except when the screw something up. :p
<TheMuso> But usually one only has to track down the repo for the package, and extract the script themselves if they want it.
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Bah.  What cdbs rule gets run after patching but before configure?
<shawarma> RAOF: makebuilddir
<shawarma> RAOF: I think.
* jussi01 throw RAOF the cdbs documentation... https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<StevenK> RAOF: Where is the source for specto hiding?
* RAOF is reading said documentation.  It's still not obvious :(
<RAOF> StevenK: The original tarball?
<StevenK> RAOF: Well, the .dsc and friends.
<RAOF> On mentors.net?
<RAOF> I haven't quite finished the new upload, you're trick had a small flaw :)
<RAOF> (Being that if test -x failed, the build would fail because of that error)
<StevenK> test -x ... && ... || :
<RAOF> Oh, I stuck "true" after the ||.
<StevenK> : / true. Same thing
<RAOF> StevenK: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/s/specto/specto_0.2.1-1.dsc
<RAOF> Sorry for the delay, just checking that it actually built this time :)
<StevenK> Heh
<RAOF> StevenK: I'm going home now, I'll be on later if you need any more changes to Specto.
<StevenK> RAOF: Aye, I'll start looking soonish
<RAOF> Thanks
<coNP> hey StevenK, I was told you can help me to get Openbox into Debian / Ubuntu
<NeilW> Quick question on Packaging if I may.
<NeilW> Is there a neat script anywhere to generate the standard signatures
<StevenK> coNP: Yup, Hobbsee dobbed me in.
<NeilW> You know the -- Fred Blogs <Fred@somewhere.org>  Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:05:50 +0200
<NeilW> Or do I need to roll my own...
<TheMuso> !ask | NeilW 
<ubotu> NeilW: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<coNP> NeilW: run dch -i int the source directory
<StevenK> coNP: Do you need help with anything, or which stage are you at with the packaging?
<coNP> StevenK: I guess I made a package for Ubuntu and uploaded to REVU. Hobbsee said it is better to get it into Debian and sync later. I guess the order is not so important, the most important is to keep the diff low
<coNP> Actually Openbox guys are very friendly. You don't really need any patches. They tend to fix bugs quickly.
<StevenK> coNP: Okay, so if you want to get into Debian, I can look at your package on REVU and look at uploading it to Debian.
<coNP> StevenK: it is an Ubuntu package. Isn't it a problem?
<StevenK> coNP: Fix the version number to be a -X, and the distribution in the changelog to be unstable, and change the Maintainer in debian/control, and then I can have a look.
<Bixente> Hi
<Bixente> I'm looking for someone to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5727
<coNP> StevenK: should I change the maintainer to me?
<StevenK> coNP: Based on what I've heard, yes.
<Hobbsee> coNP: if you intend to take it over, yes.
* coNP tries to :)
<StevenK> coNP: And mention "New Maintainer." in the changelog.
<coNP> StevenK: Should I indicate somewhere that I am not a DD? Or you will take care of "implementation details"?
<TheMuso> Bixente: I'll have a look in a while. I have the page open in my browser now, so I shouldn't forget.
<StevenK> coNP: No, I'm just your sponsor.
<Bixente> TheMuso: thanks
<NeilW> In the package I have a template configuration file and a script that copies it into place in the user home directory. Where on the directory tree do template config files live?
<coNP> StevenK: is it a problem that I produce the pacakge from the latest Ubuntu one? Should I get the latest Debian one?
<geser> NeilW: I would put it in /usr/share/<packagename>
<StevenK> coNP: You should make sure you have all of the changelog entries from both Debian and Ubuntu.
<StevenK> coNP: All of the changes from both would be nice, too. :-)
<coNP> okay, so it is not a problem that the debian one contains ubuntu versions as well?
<StevenK> No, I don't think so.
<coNP> StevenK: should I include all news that happened between 3.3 and 3.4?
<StevenK> coNP: Only if they fix Debian bugs.
<NeilW> geser: OK.
* RAOF is now back, if Specto questions need to be answered
<StevenK> RAOF: Hobbsee distracted me with Kubuntu helping.
<StevenK> However, the package looks okay.
<RAOF> Yay!  Thanks.
<StevenK> RAOF: Uploading to ftp-master (via ftp to ftp-master.debian.org):
<RAOF> StevenK: Thanks muchly.  That was very quick :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Successfully uploaded packages.
<StevenK> RAOF: Like I said, my bill is in the mail. :-)
<RAOF> :)
<asac> hey ... anyone here is geeky enough to run gutsy and have an encrypted wifi setup?
* minghua wonders how much StevenK charges
<asac> :)
<RAOF> asac: As in WPA?
<StevenK> $250 per 10 minutes. Extra $50 if the package is uploaded.
<StevenK> So I figure RAOF owes me $550. :-P
<RAOF> Check's in the mail,
<asac> RAOF: no idea ... do you see bug 121228
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121228 in network-manager "[gutsy]  segfault retrieving passphrase for WiFi network" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121228
<StevenK> RAOF: I bet. :-P
<RAOF> It might bounce if you try to cash it, ghough.  I'm not sure how many banks cash goodwill checks :)
<StevenK> Hah
* coNP tries to be *quick*
* StevenK ponders what to get for dinner.
<coNP> StevenK: from $550? Seems to be a hard decision... :)
<StevenK> Hah
<geser> asac: I could test it on my notebook today evening if it isn't to late for you
<StevenK> Yeah, $550 in Monopoly money because RAOF is a cheapskate. :-P
<jussi01> lol
<RAOF> asac: I've been using WEP+network-manager successfully on Gutsy since I started.
<asac> geser: hmm we need to decide if the fix i have should go to tribe ... so it might be too late
<RAOF> asac: I'm currently in Sid, but I can boot back to Gutsy if you want.
<asac> geser: anyway, thanks I will keep you as a backup in case i can't find another tester
<RAOF> (To test WPA/WPA2/WEP/Unencrypted)
<asac> RAOF: do you use network-manager applet as well? and it doesn't crash?
<asac> RAOF: that would be so great
* TheMuso returns from dinner.
<DarkMageZ> RAOF, you are aware of the security risks of WEP?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Tell me what I want for dinner. :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: eh
<TheMuso> heh even
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: Yes.  Sadly, the crappy card I have in my not-laptop doesn't handle anything else.
<RAOF> asac: Yes, I use nm-applet
<RAOF> DarkMageZ: And WEP is very much better than nothing :).  You need to actually want to break WEP, wheras unencrypted... :)
<RAOF> asac: Back in a moment in Ubuntu.
<jussi01> gah, someone tell me if i can burn a cd image to a dvd...
<jussi01> and it will work..
<TheMuso> jussi01: Should do.
<TheMuso> an iso is an iso is an iso.
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> cause i only have a spindle of dvds, no cds...
<DarkSun88> Salve
<jussi01> DarkSun88: you put that on open wounds...
<jussi01> :P
<DarkSun88> :D
<TheMuso> heh
<DarkSun88> Salve == Hi
<DarkSun88> ;)
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> TheMuso: it doesnt like me...
<jussi01> :(
<TheMuso> Probably says to use a CD right?
<jussi01> some crap about media...but yeah, in essence
<jussi01> gah, i can even test the cd, cause i dont have one... grrrrrrrr
<RAOF> asac: That's a "confirmed on ipw3945 + amd64" :/
* RAOF is now back in Sid, which doesn't suffer from that problem :)
<asac> RAOF: hey
<asac> RAOF: wait
<asac> RAOF: its not about confirming
<RAOF> Oh, sorry.
<asac> RAOF: its about testing a fix
<asac> RAOF: so you see the bug?
<RAOF> ...
<asac> RAOF: please do: apt-get source gnome-keyring
<RAOF> Can you give it to me again?
<asac> then patch it with this patch:
<asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8214851/gnome-keyring_2.19.4.1-0ubuntu1_2.19.4.1-0ubuntu2.diff
<asac> e.g. cd gnome-keyring-*; patch -p1 < /tmp/gnome-keyring*diff
* RAOF will need to dget gnome-keyring.
<asac> RAOF: fwiw, the bug this patch is coming from is bug 122502
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122502 in gnome-keyring "[PATCH]  memory leak + error handling glitch in gnome-keyring-proto.c:gnome_keyring_proto_decode_find_reply" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122502
<RAOF> Thanks.
<asac> RAOF: do you want me to provide packages or can you manage to build with that patch?
<RAOF> Oh, I can build with that patch.
<asac> RAOF: rock
<RAOF> If you've got packages, it might be easier though :)
<asac> RAOF: i only have amd64 ones atm
<asac> RAOF: if they are of any help
<RAOF> As luck would have it, I'm on amd64
<asac> oh cool
<asac> RAOF: wait a sec
<RAOF> Rather than me trying to get my Ubuntu pbuilders to work on Sid (no network in Gusty ;)), your packages would be awesome :)
<asac> RAOF: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/gnome-keyring/
<RAOF> Thanks.
<TheMuso> Bixente: I have left a comment.
<RAOF> asac: I'll test those now.  Rebooting...
<Bixente> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> Bixente: You're welcome.
<bashelier> zakame: ping
<RAOF> asac: Ok, that's a no.
<asac_> RAOF: sorry connection went down
<asac_> .e.g provider :)
<RAOF> asac_: Same crash for me.
<asac_> ok thanks
<StevenK> Oh damn.
<StevenK> vmware-server doesn't built against 2.6.20
<ajmitch> vmnet problems?
<StevenK> vmmon
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> iirc there was a simple fix
<ajmitch> mostly because I had it running against 2.6.20 for a long time :)
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK downloaded the -any-any patch
<asac> RAOF: i have another test for you ... this should fix the crash ... question is if it makes your wireless work as well.
<asac> RAOF: still available for that?
<RAOF> asac: Ok, yeah.
<RAOF> asac: I'll be having dinner soon, but I can test before that.
<RainCT> hi
<TheMuso> Hi RainCT.
<asac> RAOF: its in same directory
<asac> its gnome-network-manager-applet 
<RAOF> Ok.
<asac> aeh network-manager-gnome :)
<RAOF> Can I get the url again?  I've lost backlog.
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/gnome-keyring/
<RainCT> please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate)
<StevenK> Gah!
<StevenK> And now vmware tells me it won't run 64 bit guests on this hardware.
<StevenK> Does it want a written invitation?
<shawarma> StevenK: It's vmware server?
<StevenK> shawarma: Yup
<RAOF> asac: Bing.  You have a winner.
<RAOF> asac: Not only does it fix the crash, but I still have wireless :)
<asac> RAOF: great ... one more thing
<asac> RAOF: please try if downgrading keyring 
<asac> still fixes this
<shawarma> StevenK: Yeah, I think I got that too. I'm using workstation instead. What does server actually do differently?
<StevenK> shawarma: I'm not sure at all. I'm very close to downloading a trail of workstation.
<StevenK> trial, even
<StevenK> shawarma: I try and select "Ubuntu 64-bit" and it tells me I can't.
<ajmitch> it's lying
<ajmitch> I run 64-bit guests with no problems
* StevenK tries it.
<StevenK> And it blows up.
<ajmitch> I've never had it complain at me
<StevenK> "The process exited with an error: End of error message."
<StevenK> Very helpful!
<ajmitch> sigh, no headers for my running kernel
* ajmitch hunts on launchpad
<StevenK> Hum.
* StevenK gets a better error message.
<ajmitch> scattered all over the place...
<RAOF_> asac: A good test for that is to log off and log on againt?
<RAOF_> asac: Because that seems to work
<ajmitch> ok, now I can't compile on 2.6.22, probably due to a previous hack
<ajmitch> I think I'll give up on that for now :)
<RAOF_> asac: Did you get that? I'm not sure if I was fully connected before I sent it.
<StevenK> Gah!
<StevenK> It wants VT and my processor doesn't have it.
<ajmitch> odd
<asac_> RAOF_: sorry was offlnie again (sucky provider)
<asac_> RAOF_: did you say anything?
<RAOF_> asac_: Yes, I did :)
<RAOF_> asac: A good test for that is to log off and log on againt?
<RAOF_> asac: Because that seems to work
<asac_> RAOF_: last i asked if you can try to downgrade gnome-keyring again
<StevenK> ajmitch: What cpuflags does your amd64 have?
<RAOF_> asac_: Yup.  Downgraded, logged off, network-manager still works.
<ajmitch> flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt lm 3dnowext 3dnow pni lahf_lm cmp_legacy
<asac_> RAOF_: great ... thanks a lot
<ajmitch> nothing unusual for an original athlon64 x2
* StevenK nods
<RAOF_> asac_: Anything else before I have some dinner?
<StevenK> VMware says the same thing as VirtualBox. Woot.
* StevenK considers installing on metal to test.
<asac_> RAOF_: no ... you deserve your dinner now
<asac_> tribe-2 testers will be grateful for your testing :)
<RAOF_> Now, if someone could push the KVM merge, we can have working network-manager and kvm :)
<StevenK> RAOF_: Mention that to pitti in -devel?
<RAOF_> asac: Wow, your network really does suck.
<asac> RAOF_: yeah ... it didn't suck for a month or so .... but apparently all this rain and lightning we get atm is causing problems 
<TheMuso> Reminds me of the stories I hear about relating to lots of rain and telephone lines here in Australia.
* TheMuso wouldn't be surprised at the number of dead lines after the rain we have had recently.
<StevenK> Before I moved house, rain used to make the DSL bounce around.
<TheMuso> fun
<StevenK> Until the phone went dead after 2 days of rain, and it turned out our cable wasn't water proofed.
<jbailey> Hey'all!  Been a while since I uploaded to Universe and have two questions.  1) Does the tribe-2 freeze affect universe?  2) If there's a bug I want to fix, do I have to file the bug and close it, or can I just upload the fix straight away?
<StevenK> jbailey: 1) Yes. Packages don't need to be reviewed, but they need a manual shove. 2) Either is fine.
<TheMuso> jbailey: Firstly, all uploads for universe go through with manual shove, bu are not subject to review.
<TheMuso> bah StevenK beat me.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Beat you. :-P
* StevenK grins and high fives TheMuso
<TheMuso> StevenK: You have a visual advantage with stuff like that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Meh. You can so read better than I can. :-P
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<jbailey> Cool, thanks.
<jbailey> It's not urgent, so it can cheerfully sit in the queue.
<ajmitch> jeff!
<jbailey> Just, making nethack-gnome play well with composite is not work related, and I keep forgetting to upload it outside of work hours. =)
<ajmitch> hah
<StevenK> Hah
<jbailey> Heya Andrew
<StevenK> My employer doesn't know exactly how much Ubuntu work I do at $WORK ...
<TheMuso> StevenK: I was wondering about that... :p
<jbailey> StevenK: Y'know, that's just not true in my case ;P
<man-di> StevenK: jbailey does 100% Ubuntu work at work...I guess
<StevenK> man-di: I'm well aware of that.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Hrm?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I thought it was time given to you to use, due to use of Ubuntu.
<jbailey> Actually, I do very little these days since I'm in support now.  But if it's something I care about in main, certainly noone will make noises about me fixing it while at work.
<StevenK> TheMuso: ... Partly
<TheMuso> StevenK: Right.
<ajmitch> jbailey: how's the family? :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Terribly cute!
<jbailey> ajmitch: Angie's now totally up and around.  Leif is occasionally taking a (some noun that isn't step but is used for crawling)
<jbailey> It's hard to believe that he's almost 4 months ow.
<jbailey> +n
<ajmitch> good progress :)
<StevenK> Geez. It seems like it was only days ago you were blogging about the new arrival.
<StevenK> Having just arrived, that is.
<jbailey> It's been hard to find time to post.
<StevenK> Oh wait, it was. Damn lag.
<StevenK> :-P
<jbailey> I finally unloaded the camera onto a family-only flickr site, and wound up adding like 150 photos.
<StevenK> I should get around to emptying my camera.
<StevenK> Last photos I have of my uncle before he passed away last weekend.
* StevenK sighs
<jbailey> Ouch.  Best to get those to safe keeping, then.
<StevenK> Right, now to try and break/test this machine.
<StevenK> Hrm. Now where is the CD testing checklist?
<StevenK> Hrm. That's not so good.
<RainCT> some MOTU please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate)
<Bixente> TheMuso: I updated the package, if you have time to review it. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5784 thanks
<TheMuso> Bixente: No problem.
<TheMuso> Evening once again Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso 
<jbailey> So I've sent it off.  Since I don't care how quickly it gets in, can I safely just wait for the freeze to be off, or should I actively ask someone to nudge it through?
<Hobbsee> jbailey: what is it?
<TheMuso> jbailey: Waiting is fine.
<ajmitch> I suspect it'll just get pushed through next time an archive admin is bored
<TheMuso> jbailey: I'd say it will get in soons anyway.
<ajmitch> so maybe todayish
<jbailey> Hobbsee: nethack, with a patch to make nethack-gnome work with composite enabled.
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<jbailey> So totally non-urgent.
<jbailey> It'll just make my wife happy when she sits down to a new machine. =)
<Hobbsee> :)
<jbailey> "Happy Wife, Happy Life" - Koichi Tohei
<jbailey> Thanks all.  I should probably do motu'ish stuff more often so I don't have to be reminded of things all the time.  But, ah well. =)
<TheMuso> Bixente: Great work.
<Bixente> TheMuso: thanks a lot :)
<TheMuso> Bixente: You're welcome.
<TheMuso> Bixente: Still needs another MOTu to review it and give it the nod before it gets uploaded.
<Bixente> TheMuso: ok
<jussi01> F###n shrinkwrapped cds...
<TheMuso> jussi01: heh
* jussi01 went and bought a sngle cd...
<StevenK> ...and burnt a coaster?
<TheMuso> haha
<pygi> use a sane cd-recording backend pls :)
<TheMuso> pygi: Whats your definition of sane?
<pygi> TheMuso, :)
<jussi01> yeah...
<StevenK> Nero?
<jussi01> lol
<pygi> StevenK, no
* StevenK scoffs.
* jussi01 will use k3b...
<pygi> StevenK, libburn ^^
<StevenK> pygi: Heh
<pygi> StevenK, what? :)
<TheMuso> pygi: If there is a command-line utility using that library, I'll give it a shot, otherwise, meh.
<jbailey> Hmm.  I don't think I actually got around to mentioning it here.  We're looking for a packager for commercial ISV stuff, the posting is up on http://www.ubuntu.com/employment
<pygi> TheMuso, there is ofcourse
<pygi> TheMuso, sudo apt-get install cdrskin
<TheMuso> hmmm ok.
* pygi looks that ubuntu stuff
<TheMuso> So how does wodim compare/differ?
<TheMuso> In terms of the code used.
<pygi> TheMuso, completely new code =)
<TheMuso> pygi: Right.
<TheMuso> Why should I use cdrskin?
<pygi> TheMuso, because it works better :p
<pygi> should be one reason that is enough :)
<TheMuso> Not convinced.
<pygi> ok, then because libburn is the future ^^
<TheMuso> according to whom?
<TheMuso> Is wodim likely to start using it for example?
<pygi> according to everyone
<pygi> TheMuso, no, but wodim is likely to be discontinued :)
<TheMuso> Right.
<pygi> developers would be advised to use libburn, while users will use cdrskin if they need command-line utility :)
* RAOF thought that the/a brassero dev suggested against it being used by default because libburn wasn't mature?
<TheMuso> Whats the earliest version of libburn that you recommend?
<pygi> TheMuso, I recommend using newest :)
<pygi> RAOF, Phillipe? :)
<TheMuso> Well until I move to gutsy, it can wait.
<pygi> TheMuso, feisty has newest as well
<pygi> ergh
<pygi> no it doesn't :-/
<RAOF> pygi: I forget.  I don't keep referrences :)
<TheMuso> pygi: Well it can wait.
<pygi> TheMuso, you could compile it yourself ^_^
<pygi> RAOF, I'm telling you =)
<TheMuso> Wodim/DVD+rw-tools is all I need atm.
<pygi> if you say so ^^
<TheMuso> Until I move to gutsy.
<TheMuso> Is nautilus using libburn yet?
<pygi> TheMuso, no, upstream isn't responding :)
<pygi> But I'm after it
<TheMuso> Right.
<pygi> TheMuso, any more questions? :)
<pygi> RAOF, Brasero in gutsy has libburn/libisofs enabled by default
<TheMuso> pygi: Not at this moment, no.
<jussi01> well anyway, it burnt fine... 
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> seee you all after install...
<pygi> TheMuso, oki ^^
* pygi sometimes bugs too much about it, but oh well :)
<TheMuso> Theres nothing wrong with that.
<pygi> TheMuso, seriously tho ... it has strong advantages over the existing solutions, and it's really supposed to replace them
<StevenK> Like not linking against libschilly?
<TheMuso> pygi: I hope it will allow software to properly copy CDs with several sessions on them. :)
<pygi> not yet ofcourse because we don't have mkisofs replacement (because libisofs is not ready yet), but still ...
<pygi> TheMuso, it already does ;)
<TheMuso> pygi: Well once I am in gutsy, I'm there. That has been lacking somewhat for a while.
<pygi> well, kindof :) Libisofs doesn't support multisessions yet, but you can burn multi-session disks with libburn
<pygi> StevenK, hehe :)
* TheMuso was thinking of audio CDs with data tracks at the end.
<pygi> mixed cd's?
<TheMuso> pygi: Yeah.
<pygi> we'll see :)
<pygi> let's hope it'll all turn out nicely :)
* TheMuso ponders whether he wants to go for any of the new uus bugs...
<ajmitch> yes, you do
* ajmitch is off to sleep
<RainCT> please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: heh, and goodnight.
* RainCT is thinking on make a bot that'll automatically asks to review the package every 15 minutes ;P
<xxxxx1> good morning all! :)
<TheMuso> Hey xxxxx1.
<xxxxx1> hello TheMuso 
* ScottK wakes up and kicks StevenK back many hours later ...
<StevenK> Ouch!
* StevenK kicks ScottK again
<ScottK> Careful, I might start to like it.
<ScottK> Oddly enough when someone gets my name wrong, they almost always call me Steve.  I have no idea why.
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> When people on the phone get my name wrong, they call me Dave. I have no idea why.
<zul> hah reminds me of the kids in the hall song 
<StevenK> Funnily enough, we have a Dave at work, and so if they're painful on the phone, I don't correct them... If they call back, they say that they were talking to Dave ...
<ScottK> That works.
<StevenK> Doesn't it. :-)
* ScottK is a one man company, so that approach wouldn't help here.
<Hobbsee> haha
<TheMuso> Well folks, don't just stand around gass bagging, clear the uus queue.:p
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'm testing a Kubuntu amd64 CD, kthxbye
<lfittl> RAOF: you synced kvm version 28 from debian, are you sure that the ubuntu kernel has a compatible module? (I would guess that the kernel module is older than version 28)
<lfittl> err, not here anymore
<StevenK> lfittl: Considering the bug report says that it works with kernel version blah, I'm assuming it does.
<lfittl> ok, thanks :)
* TheMuso remembers RAOF explicitly saying that he tested it with the newest kernel.
<lfittl> perfect
<StevenK> And I checked that again before I signed and uploaded the merge...
<zul> StevenK: uh...have you guys double checked with BenC
<StevenK> zul: I haven't, I'm not sure if RAOF has. Why?
<zul> just to make sure alot of people use kvm and they would be "upset" if it breaks
<pygi> rproenca, ? :P
<rproenca> hi pygi :)
<StevenK> zul: If he tested it and it works, what's the problem?
<pygi> why are you changing names :P
<rproenca> rproenca: stands for "Rafael Proena" :)
<pygi> aha :)
<StevenK> And it's *Gutsy*, things are allowed to be broken.
<rproenca> that's my name :)
<zul> StevenK: I didnt know if he tested it, no probs then
<pygi> rproenca, I know :P
<afflux> someone available for review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5762
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<coNP> StevenK: I guess I won't have time till the weekend for the openbox packages
<coNP> StevenK: I hope this is not a problem, tribe2 is coming, etc.
<StevenK> coNP: Okay. I'm ready when you are.
<coNP> okay, just FYI
<coNP> (I've learnt a lot from Hobbsee :D)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: isnt on the release team though
<RainCT> please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5773 (Open Invaders, i386, needs first advocate)
<ScottK> RainCT: Did you fix all the lintian/linda warnings on the binary?
<RainCT> ScottK: beside the NMU warning, yes
<ScottK> OK.  That can be ignored.
<ScottK> RainCT: You uploaded a dirty source (I can tell because it has open-invaders.6 in the diff.
<ScottK> RainCT: Build your man page inside the debian dir and then rm it after installing.
<ScottK> +	docbook-to-man debian/open-invaders.sgml > open-invaders.6 change to +	docbook-to-man debian/open-invaders.sgml > debian/open-invaders.6
<ScottK> RainCT: ??
<RainCT> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> Make sense?
<RainCT> yes (first I had not seen the "change to", but yes you're right :))
<RainCT> ScottK: uploading..
<ScottK> Did you build it?
<RainCT> yes
<ScottK> OK.
<norsetto> siretart: Hello Reinhard ... I'm having some problems to login in REVU. Perhaps you can help?
<jussi01> whats the problem norsetto ?
<jussi01> someone else may be able to help...
<ScottK> RainCT: Your source still has a copy of open-invaders.6 in it (not in the debian dir).
<RainCT> ScottK: yes I'm uploading again
<ScottK> OK
<norsetto> jussi01: thanks! Well, I'm trying to login for the first time. I give my email as userid, leave password empty but the system refuses login. AFAIR I generated my key with an Elgamal secondary key
<RainCT> ScottK: Always I upload I've to forget something and remember just after pressing Enter... :/
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> RainCT: Next time if you tell me you've uploaded, but decide the upload isn't ready to be looked at, please let me know so I don't waste time figuring it out for myself.
<norsetto> In case it helps here is the error message: "login for user "cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com" failed, please retry or recover"
<jussi01> norsetto: you need someone to sync the keyring
<RainCT> ScottK: I said 'uploading...', not 'uploaded'
<ScottK> Yes and so I was looking for it.
<norsetto> jussi01: But I can upload with no problems!?
<RainCT> ScottK: ah, sorry then
<jussi01> norsetto: no, you need to wait for the sync
<ScottK> norsetto: When did you join the contributors team on Launchpad?
<norsetto> jussi01: sorry, I'm a bit thickheaded, I don't understand ... I have been uploading packages for the last couple of days already
<jussi01> norsetto: and they are appearing?
<jussi01> on revu?
<mruiz> hi all
<ScottK> Hi mruiz
<norsetto> jussi01: indeed they are - scottk: joined on 2007-05-27
<mruiz> hi ScottK 
* jussi01 handpasses this one to ScottK
<ScottK> norsetto: Then your key in on the REVU box.
<norsetto> scottk: well, yeah, so why can't I login!?
<ScottK> norsetto: Dunno.  I have a desktop and a laptop.  Login works on the desktop and not on the laptop.  I have no idea why.
<norsetto> lol
<ScottK> siretart is actually who I think you need to talk to.
<norsetto> Tried to but I think he is in a meeting
<ScottK> norsetto: If there's a comment you want to leave on a package, I can post it for you.
<norsetto> Well, thanks! I emailed directly the reviewer in any case, but in the future I would like to personally bugger people less
<jussi01> heh
<ScottK> norsetto: OK.
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5787
<RainCT> ScottK: oh. it seems the manpage isn't being installed. doesn't dh_installman do that?
<ScottK> You have to tell it which to install.
<ScottK> dh_installman debian/open-invaders.6 (or something close to that)
<RainCT> ScottK: ah ok. have you seen anything more to change or do I upload it again?
* ScottK hasn't had time to look.
<ScottK> EthanP: If you decide you want to try and build clamav for Dapper, let me know and I'll help you out.
<EthanP> thanks ScottK
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> RainCT: Let me know when you think you have a good package.
<RainCT> ScottK: ok. I'm just trying to install it before uploading again
<ScottK> OK
<RainCT> ScottK: found a typo in the manpage :p. and, is it ok to change the copyright to "this manual page was written by [...]  for you and is released into the public domain."? (just find it looks stupid if there is more license than manual :P)
<RainCT> s/copyright/author
<ScottK> You don't actually need to put the entire license in the manual.  
<RainCT> ScottK: it isn't, but there are 7 lines telling that it's on the GPL and 6 about the game xD
<ScottK> OK.  Well I'd suggest just leave it.  There are complications in some places about moral author rights and other stuff I dunno about.  If you make it GPL, it's all very clear.
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, debuilding then.
<ScottK> OK.  Let me know when it's ready to be looked at.
<RainCT> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5788
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> RainCT: I haven't done a lot with desktop apps yet (I'm pretty new as a MOTU), but aren't you supposed to use dh_iconcache?
<RainCT> ScottK: *reading about it*. isn't that for the icons that are shown on the top-left of the windows?
* ScottK doesn't really know for sure so figured he'd give you the joy of researching it.
<jussi01> heheh
<RainCT> ScottK: well, it says it's for icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor or /usr/share/icons/gnome (the included icon goes to /usr/share/pixmaps) and that some applications crash if they don't find the icon (and that one is a icon for the menu entry, not the game itself), so I guess it isn't needed there
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> I'll continue looking then.
<jgamio> hi everybody I want to learn to pack. Somebody can give a link to read about this topic.
<RainCT> jgamio: hi. http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<jgamio> RainCT: thank you
<EthanP> thanks ScottK
<RainCT> jgamio: you're welcome ;)
<RainCT> jgamio: if you're interested in contributing with Ubuntu you can also look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment (there are also many other links about packaging)
<RainCT> ScottK: how does it look?
<ScottK> It built.  Just about to look at the .deb.
<norsetto> siretart: Reinhard, are you with us?
<Baby> is that an invocation? :P
<ScottK> RainCT: You said you ran lintian against the .deb, right?
<ScottK> Hello Baby.
<Baby> hi ScottK! :)
<siretart> norsetto: sorry?
<RainCT> ScottK: no, I looked at the lintian file in revu
<ScottK> RainCT: That's against the source package, not the binary.  You also need to run it against the binary.  See my comment.
<norsetto> siretart: can I ask you a question?
<ScottK> !question | norsetto
<ubotu> norsetto: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<norsetto> siretart: can I ask another question? ;)
<norsetto> Hey, I summoned him, I can ask questions!
<RainCT> what means FSSTND?
<norsetto> I think you scared him now
<Hobbsee> RainCT: try google it?
<siretart> no, I'm just busy
<norsetto> OK thanks, I'll send you an email if that is ok with you
<ScottK> RainCT: Run lintian -i filename.deb for details.
<RainCT> ok thanks
<RainCT> ScottK: how can I avoid it installing usr/doc/open-invaders/COPYING ? removing the COPYING file in debian/rules?
<ScottK> RainCT: Yes.
<RainCT> ScottK: just like this "rm COPYING"? it says "*** No rule to make target `COPYING', needed by `all-am'."  Stop. when building
<ScottK> RainCT: Sorry.  Misread your question before.  
<ScottK> RainCT: Wouldn't it be rm debian/usr/doc/open-invaders/COPYING in any case.  I'm sorry, but I'm about out of cycles for reviewing right now.
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
<bethko> Where should I be to talk about web cam plug in play support for Ubuntu? It is really needed.
<SlimG> bethko: I think some of the issue is the licensing for the more frequently used webcam drivers
<bethko> The drivers exist
<bethko> Someone just needs to make it so when you plug in the cam it works.
* Hobbsee suggests bethko be that someone...
<ogra> bethko, then you need to ensure udev and hal know it 
<ogra> ... and know what to do with it ...
<bethko> You have the contact info for these?
<bethko> those?
<ogra> bethko, ??? 
<ogra> just write a patch and attach it to a bug ;)
<SlimG> bethko: udev and hal isn't persons if that's what you thought ;)
<bethko> Ok, I gathered that, what is the contact info? Address? #something? etc...
<bethko> I also was on the phone just now
<bethko> I hate phones.
<SlimG> bethko: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal and http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev.html if that's what you wanted to know
<ScottK> nixternal is a MOTU now, so feel free to pile on him asking for reviews.
* nixternal goes to the sotre
<nixternal> store
<nixternal> ya the store
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> sotre is southern? since notre is north?
<Hobbsee> nixternal: review everything on revu, kthxbye.
<nixternal> hahaha, what about the daily-live test?
<ScottK> nixternal: Do both at the same time.
<nixternal> hahah
<nixternal> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> that means I cannot multitask correctly
<nixternal> i tend to lock up and blue screen ;p
<ScottK> Not with Vist, no.
<Hobbsee> you need a firmware upgrade.
<calc> what is the difference between the motu and ubuntu-dev groups?
<nixternal> calc: congrats to you as well!
<calc> nixternal: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> calc: ubuntu-dev == motu + core
<coNP> Hobbsee: yes
<coNP> :D
<calc> Hobbsee: oh ok, but why are some people direct members of ubuntu-dev?
<nixternal> or flat out core-dev == god (who do you say that in zimba?)
<calc> Hobbsee: hold over from the way it used to be done?
<nixternal> s/who/how
<Hobbsee> i dont know.  dont remember
<calc> nixternal: i'm waiting until after i do my first real ooo upload to apply for core-dev
<calc> Hobbsee: ok
<Hobbsee> especially not at thsi time of night
<nixternal> calc: I will wait another year and a half like I did for MOTU :)
<ScottK> calc: They made some changes in the way teams worked earlier in the year.
<geser> Hobbsee: wasn't there some move from the motu team to the ubuntu-dev team a few months ago?
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody!
<ScottK> They made the MOTU team and just decided to let the existing direct core members time out.
<ScottK> err that's ubuntu-dev members
<calc> ScottK: oh ok
<RainC1> can somebody help me with that please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27445/
<RainC1> (the ChangeLog is empty so I guess that's why it doesn't get compressed, but I don't know how to delete it, neither the COPYING file)
<geser> RainC1: delete them from debian/tmp after make install
<RainCT> geser:   rm debian/tmp/ChangeLog debian/tmp/COPYING    ?
<Hobbsee> geser: something like that.  not sure
<geser> yes, something like that. You need to find out the correct path below debian/tmp where they are
<geser> probably debian/tmp/usr/doc/open-invaders/COPYING and debian/tmp/usr/share/doc/open-invaders/ChangeLog
<geser> or don't call dh_installchangelogs (for the ChangeLog)
<RainCT> geser: it says they don't exist. and I'm not passing ChangeLog to dh_installchangelog
<RainCT> geser: ("after make install" means after this or? $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/open-invaders install)
<geser> yes
<geser> RainCT: is that an other open-invaders package as on REVU?
<RainCT> geser: it's here http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5788
<geser> RainCT: you call "dh_installchangelogs ChangeLog" in the binary-arch target
<geser> and this installs the empty changelog
<RainCT> geser: I've already removed that locally
<RainCT> geser: should I upload?
<geser> and that warning about the ChangeLog file is still there?
<RainCT> yes
<azeem> if ChangeLog, AUTHORS, etc. are empty that usually means upstream doesn't know about automake's `foreign' option
<RainCT> (AUTHORS isn't empty)
<azeem> ok
<azeem> then it only means upstream doesn't care about proper changelogs :)
<RainCT> :P
<gpocentek> nixternal, calc: welcome in the team :)
<nixternal> thanks gpocentek 
<nixternal> in order to do reviews on revu, it says to send your password. which password are they trying to phish from me?
<man-di> geser: I didnt knew you are german before ;-)
* tsmithe pokes about reviews for the *ubuntustudio* packages on revu
<tsmithe> for those in the know, i've updated the licence of ubuntustudio-sounds to CC-By-SA
<tsmithe> which is the same as ubuntu-artworks
<tsmithe> *ubuntu-artwork
<LaserJock> what was it before?
<tsmithe> artistic with a rather restrictive clause. somewhat contradictory i thought...
<LaserJock> how did you change it? :-)
<tsmithe> got in touch with the team and the author, and updated the COPYING and debian/copyright files
<DktrKranz> when you have time, could you please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757? thanks
<bashelier> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> bashelier: pong
<bashelier> LaserJock: hello, I've made the merge of lintian, and I'd like to ask you if I can file the bug :) here is the debdiff: http://paste.stgraber.org/1904
<Kmos> can some MOTU to a sync of bug 121924
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121924 in libapt-pkg-perl "Please sync libapt-pkg-perl 0.1.21 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121924
<Kmos> *do
<geser> Kmos: have you talked with mvo about it?
<Kmos> not yet.. he's testing ubuntu tribe-2
<Kmos> i'll talk now
<Kmos> geser: [20:26]  <mvo> sync is ok
<Kmos> geser: can you do it ? :)
<LaserJock> bashelier: looks good
<geser> Kmos: ACKed
<Kmos> geser: thanks
<Kmos> geser: ddclient 3.7.2 is released, but their own changelog doesn't have any entry
<bashelier> LaserJock: thanks, shall I give you the bug number back ?
<Kmos> but it's available from sourceforge
<Kmos> i've done the package
<Kmos> geser: they also applied one patch from ubuntu package
<Kmos> from 3.7.1
<LaserJock> bashelier: you filed a bug for the merge?
<bashelier> LaserJock: I am now
<geser> Kmos: did you put it on REVU already?
<Kmos> geser: no
<LaserJock> bashelier: well, you don't have to if you don't want to
<LaserJock> well, actually, I'm not sure if the Main freeze is over
<LaserJock> bashelier: better go ahead and file the bug, attach the debdiff, and assign it to me
<Kmos> lionel: any new about bug 119545
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119545 in jabberd2 "Please merge jabberd2 s11-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119545
<lionel> upload is ready
<lionel> I'll do it in few min
<Kmos> so i can put it fix commited
<lionel> when it will be uploaded
<Kmos> ok
<Kmos> lionel: you used (LP: #119545) in changelog ?
<Kmos> :)
<lionel> Kmos: yep. So it will be fixed released
<Kmos> nice, thanks
<lionel> np :)
<ScottK> nixternal: You should be able to archive kplayer yourself now...
<nixternal> ScottK: I can't though, maybe have to wait for revu to sync with LP?
<bashelier> LaserJock: done, bug #122658, thanks :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122658 in lintian "Please merge lintian (main) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122658
<ScottK> nixternal: There was something like that.  I think a REVU admin had to set me up.
<AndyP> bashelier: did you see my ping about podbrowser?
<bashelier> AndyP: nope, sorry :/
<LaserJock> nixternal: what do you need?
<AndyP> bashelier: bug #122392 - seems to be a library version problem
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122392 in podbrowser "podbrowser depends on Gtk2::Ex::PodViewer 0.16, but 0.14 in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122392
<nixternal> money? Access to revu
<bashelier> AndyP: yup, I've spotted that but the package has been uploaded before I could package new version of the lib, doing now ;)
<LaserJock> nixternal: what kind of access?
<AndyP> bashelier: ok cool :)
<nixternal> in order to review and to be able to archive my old stuff on there I guess
<Kmos> [20:32]  <LaserJock> well, actually, I'm not sure if the Main freeze is over
<Kmos> yes, it's frozen for tribe-2
<Kmos> still frozen =)
<LaserJock> Kmos: yes, I just checked the topic in -devel ;-)
<Kmos> :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: woah, you made MOTU!!
<LaserJock> I didn't see it was final
<nixternal> LaserJock: yes, this morning mdz added me :)
<tsmithe> nixternal, yay congrats!
<AndyP> nixternal: congrats :)
<nixternal> thank you
<Kmos> nixternal: nice work!
<Kmos> just to be different :)
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> thanks
<tsmithe> nixternal, as your first task (or whatever) you can sponsor my *ubuntustudio* packages!
* ScottK stands back and watches people with packages for REVU dogpiling nixternal...
<tsmithe> ScottK, a bit quicker and that would have been pre-emptive :p
* nixternal goes to the store again ;p
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> ScottK, but thanks for volunteering for that noble task ;)
* ScottK is busy bug fixing at the moment.  Sorry.
<tsmithe> hehe i guess that's a tad more noble
<LaserJock> nixternal: I'll set you as a reviewer in a sec
<ScottK> Or more precisely trolling for an archive admin to let clamav 0.90.3-1ubuntu2 (source) out of jail...
<tsmithe> haha
<nixternal> thanks LaserJock, no rush of course ;)
<tsmithe> yes there is!
<bashelier> AndyP: Newest version on remote site is 0.17, local version is 0.14
<bashelier> :)
<zul> lionel: ping
<lionel> zul: pong
<mok0> pooof
<zul> lionel: ill take care of xen tools tonight myself
<bashelier> zul: why ? :)
<lionel> zul: Ok, no problem for me
<zul> bashelier: huh?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh no, what have we done?
<bashelier> zul: is it about bug #122554 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122554 in xen-tools "Please merge xen-tools (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122554
<zul> bashelier: yes
<bashelier> zul: I can do it right now but... if you want to do it yourself go on ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: heah, I didn't vote for him ;-)
<zul> bashelier: i have to do somethings to it so people can install gutsy with it
<zul> hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I must have been drunk...
<LaserJock> or paid off ...
<LaserJock> but I don't think he's got that much money ;-)
<ajmitch> haha
<norsetto> ajmitch: Could you perhaps help me? I'm having a login problem in REVU
* ScottK thought it was because nixternal volunteered to be the new alsa maintainer.
<nixternal> nevah
<ajmitch> norsetto: the problem being?
<norsetto> can't login .....
<YannDinendal> neither do I...
<ajmitch> norsetto: are you in the LP group, is your key in the keyring, have you successfully uploaded a package & it appears on REVU?
<YannDinendal> but I guess I have more problems than you ^^
<norsetto> yes to all:  login for user "cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com" failed, please retry or recover
<YannDinendal> ajmitch, are you admin or something ? I don't know if my package was uploaded and I can't login :( 
<ajmitch> YannDinendal: yes, but I'm leaving for work Real Soon Now
<YannDinendal> ok
<LaserJock> YannDinendal: what package?
<YannDinendal> checkgmail 1.12 (my very first package), yannbreliere@gmail.com
<YannDinendal> LaserJock, in fact, I can't retrieve my password
<YannDinendal> gpg returns "None"
<LaserJock> YannDinendal: can you try uploading it again?
<YannDinendal> ok
<ajmitch> norsetto: what happens when you try to recover password?
<LaserJock> I cleared chekgmail out of the rejected queue the other day
<norsetto> nothing, I was never able to login (it says something about copying text but there is nothing to copy)
<YannDinendal> LaserJock, great ! it worked :D
<LaserJock> YannDinendal: yeah, I think you tried to upload before the keyring was synced
<LaserJock> it looks ok now
<LaserJock> norsetto: what package did you upload?
<ajmitch> norsetto: you don't have a special sign-only gpg key or something, do you?
<YannDinendal> norsetto, I had the same problem yesterday, and today it showed something wich didn't return anything in gpg...
<norsetto> ajmitch: no
<ajmitch> YannDinendal: difference is that I can see that norsetto has an account (and password) registered there
<norsetto> laserjock: reconstructor, I tried with a new key today which I guess is not yet synced
<LaserJock> norsetto: right, I see a rejected email
<YannDinendal> ajmitch, ok, but how do I get an account ? 
<ajmitch> YannDinendal: by havnig a successful upload
<ajmitch> norsetto: that could be a problem
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I'll let you resync & handle it, I have to run off for work in a min
<norsetto> what, the new key?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: sure
<nixternal> hey, what package is responsible for providing the disc name when you are looking at a LiveCD in Windows?
<LaserJock> norsetto: I'm resyncing the keyring now, it'll take a few minutes
<norsetto> thanks ajmitch!
<YannDinendal> ajmitch, ok thanks, now the thing encripted decripts well :)
<LaserJock> norsetto: when that's done you can reupload the package and it *should* work
<norsetto> Laserjock: thx, I changed the key today in desperation, thinking it could be an elgamal problem
<LaserJock> ah yes, that would be a problem :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<norsetto> Laserjock: should I retry or is a tad too early?
<LaserJock> too early
<LaserJock> it's still syncing
<LaserJock> that's why we only have a daily cron job for it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<bashelier> AndyP: bug #122392
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122392 in podbrowser "podbrowser depends on Gtk2::Ex::PodViewer 0.16, but 0.14 in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122392
<LaserJock> norsetto: ok, go for it
<norsetto> going .....
<norsetto> gone
<LaserJock> wait for it ...
<norsetto> the suspense is killing me, I'm out of fingernails already
<norsetto> no wait, I forgot the bottom set :-X
<LaserJock> norsetto: yeah, it made it
<LaserJock> \o/
<nixternal> norsetto: hahahahahahahha, you forgot the bottom set, I don't know if I should puke or laugh, but I like it :)
<norsetto> yeah, I can see it but still:  login for user "cesare.tirabassi@gmail.com" failed, please retry or recover
<LaserJock> so did you recover?
<nixternal> norsetto: recover
<nixternal> then do the gpg lovin' to get that silly like 3408UROJFjfjla password
<nixternal> oops, sorry LaserJock, didn't mean to post your password
<jussi01> lol
<norsetto> ALLELUJA!
<norsetto> thanks guys ...... an hug to each
<norsetto> double to nix (arms and legs :))
<LaserJock> no problemo norsetto, thanks for contributing to Universe ;-)
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta try to get some real work done
<LaserJock> bbl
<YannDinendal> LaserJock, now that I have made my first package wich would anyway have been merged from debian...
<nixternal> haha, wait a sec, that kind of sounded perverted
<norsetto> =-O
<YannDinendal> do you know where I can find a package to do, that is not already maintained by somebody ?
<LaserJock> nixternal: dirty mind
<LaserJock> YannDinendal: sure
<nixternal> come on, he was trying to hug my arms and legs
<nixternal> ;p
<LaserJock> YannDinendal: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<mok0> I'm looking at the Upload & build queue in LP -- how does that work? Is it an automated build?
<YannDinendal> thanks LaserJock 
<LaserJock> now I'm off
<YannDinendal> are there some easier than other ?
<ajmitch> yes, automated build once it's in the build queue
<YannDinendal> ok
<mok0> ajmitch: what's the turnaround there? It seems there are still pretty old packs sitting there
<ajmitch> ok, at work now, time to shutdown this box
<ajmitch> back later
<ajmitch> sorry
<mok0> c ya
<xxxxx1> bye all
<norsetto> cheers guys.....
<ScottK> mok0: Generally the lag isn't very bad at all for getting packages built.
<mok0> ScottK: I was just wondering... the current package has been building for 5 hours...
<ScottK> Some of them take a long time to build.
<jussi01> can someone mention a c# compiler? please...
<mok0> ScottK: This is latex-cjk-chinese-arphic .... no wonder :-)
<mok0> ScottK: Did you read my blurp on the ubuntu-science list today?
<ScottK> No.  I'm not on that list.
<mok0> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> jussi01: I'm sure nixternal would know about Windows stuff like that.
<jussi01> ScottK: lol
<nixternal> nope, can't say that I do, nice try though
<jussi01> seriously though...
<AndyP> mono should have a c# compiler... mcs or gmcs i think
<ScottK> jussi01: Don't you have to look at mono for that?
* mok0 thinks mono too
<pygi> AndyP, yes ... gmcs being the newer one
<AndyP> right
<jussi01> thank you all :d
<jussi01> im trying to compile ifolder
<ajmitch> heh
<mok0> jussi01: apt-get install mono :-D
<ajmitch> planning to package it?
<jussi01> ajmitch: no, but now you mention...maybe when i get to it..
<ajmitch> well, I know that there are already people looking at it
<jussi01> oh, ok :D
<jussi01> hmmm,  are mcs/gmcs not in the repos?
<mok0> jussi01: mono-gmcs - Mono C# 2.0 compiler
<jussi01> mok0: ahh, thanks
<mok0> jussi01: np :-)
<AndyP> could a MOTU have a look at bug #122633 and perhaps process a rebuild, thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122633 in twinkle "[Gutsy]  Incorrect dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122633
<geser> AndyP: will do it when I'm back home
<AndyP> geser: thanks
<jussi01> hmmm, can some one help me with this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27487/
<AndyP> jussi01: looks like you don't have the libstdc++ library installed
<AndyP> or it can't find it for some other reason
<man-di> jussi01: aptitude install build-essential
<DarkSun88> Hi all
* jussi01 cries...
<jussi01> I have it installed... what could be wrong? 
<mok0> jussi01: It's looking for the std C++ library...
<mok0> jussi01: try linking with g++
<jussi01> hmmm, enlighten me... how?
<mok0> g++ CSPObjectIterator.o CSPropertyIterator.o ... etc
<jussi01> Im all confused tonight...
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> It's being linked by /usr/bin/ld
<mok0> but you can use g++ as a linker
<jussi01> ok, please excuse me for appearing so dumb, but what else do i need in the etc part of your instruction?
<mok0> perhaps I'm the one being dumb :)
<mok0> I am suggesting to take line 1 of your paste, and replace /usr/bin/ld with g++
<mok0> just do it in the term
<AndyP> wouldn't g++ just call ld to do its linking?
<mok0> Yes but it passes stdc++ etc
<mok0> you could also add -lstdc++ and see it that works
<jussi01> hmmm... mok0 so I edit the makefile?
<mok0> Just copy the line to the terminal and try it first
<jussi01> ok
<mok0> BTW, do you have libstdc++5 installed?
<mok0> maybe it's a missing dependency
<jussi01> mok0: yes
<mok0> jussi01: yes what?
<mok0> :)
<jussi01> yes its installed
<mok0> Ah
<mok0> Also the -dev ?
<jussi01> yeah, hang on, the dev should pull the normal one, correct?
<mok0> jussi01: yes 
<jussi01> yeah, they are installed
<mok0> It's gonne work now. I can feel it
* mok0 sighs
<mok0> Then why the **** can't it find the library?
<jussi01> I have no idea... :(
<jussi01> and the g++ command you gave couldnt find the files, where am I supposed to run it?
<mok0> Something strange is going on in that makefile
<mok0> you should run it in the same directory that contains the .o files
<jussi01> ok...
<mok0> ... so you have libstdc++5-3.3-dev  installed, yes?
<jussi01> yes
<mok0> Is this the mono stuff from earlier you are working on?
<jussi01> mok0: yeah, its a dependency of the mono...
<jussi01> http://forgeftp.novell.com/ifolder/client/released/3.2.5347.1/src/simias-1.2.5347.1.tar.gz
<mok0> ok
<mok0> ... a C++ program?
<jussi01> ummm, I guess
<jussi01> mok0: http://www.ifolder.com/index.php/Download
<mok0> Looking at your paste again, it has a weird -L directory
<mok0> ../../../external/flaim/lxx86/gcc3/release .... what the h is that?
<jussi01> hang on, ill give you the whole make output...
<jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27497/
<jussi01> mok0: 
* mok0 looks
<mok0> jussi01: Hmmm, weird. Can you just do an ls /usr/lib/libstdc++* ?
<jussi01> jussi@jussi-laptop:~/Desktop/simias-1.2.5347.1$ ls /usr/lib/libstdc++*
<jussi01> /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5      /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6
<jussi01> /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5.0.7  /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.8
<jussi01> jussi@jussi-laptop:~/Desktop/simias-1.2.5347.1$  
<jussi01> maybe i need to get rid of the 6 one?
<mok0> no that's not it;  I have them too
<mok0> But I dont see a .so 
<jussi01> does the build work for you?
<mok0> Haven't tried it
<jussi01> ok
<mok0> I could do it, wait a minute
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> :)
<mok0> downloading...
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> thanks a million for helping, i appreciate it
<mok0> did you use any specific configure flags?
<jussi01> no
<jussi01> just ./configure
<jussi01> hello persia
<mok0> Ah, I have no C# compiler :-)
<persia> hello jussi01
<jussi01> mok0: mono-mcs is the one it likes
<jussi01> hows things this morning persia?
<mok0> hmm, I got a different compile error..
<jussi01> which one?
<jussi01> i had a couple which i fixed...
<mok0>  error CS1518: Expected `class',  ... etc
<superm1> hi persia 
<jussi01> mok0: weird
<jussi01> i jst had a couple of missing libs...
<persia> hi superm1
<mok0> jussi01: which libs?
<mok0> jussi01: rephrase, which packages?
<jussi01> libxml2 + dev and pkg-comfig
<jussi01> config even
<jussi01> mok0: do you have mono installed?
<mok0> I installed mono-mcs like you suggested
<jussi01> yeah, I also insatlled just mono
<mok0> I'll try that
<mok0> Nope. Still fails with same errors :-(
<jussi01> hmmm
<mok0> Are you running Feisty?
<jussi01> where is jdong... he is a mono boy...
<jussi01> mok0: yes
<mok0> This is uphill...
<jussi01> yeah...
<mok0> The compiler croaks on the file IAuthService.cs
<mok0> 3 errors.
<jussi01> its just weird
<mok0> Did you just unpack; configure; make?
<AndyP> you're using mcs? gmcs is the newer compiler (as pygi mentioned earlier)
<jussi01> AndyP: it doesnt like gmcs
<AndyP> ah ok
<mok0> It doesn't like mcs either :-)
<jussi01> hmmm, Ive just discovered a dapper repo, and about  a million people complaining about how hard it is to compile...
<ajmitch> giving the exact error would help
<jussi01> ajmitch: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27497/
<mok0> Yeah, configure doesn't accept gmcs
<ajmitch> give me a few minutes, this system is running excruciatingly slow
<jussi01> ok
<ajmitch> due to me testing some code I wrote, oh well :)
<jussi01> hehe
<mok0> ^C it :-)
<ajmitch> simple to fix, you need something like /r:Mono.Posix
<ajmitch> I remember helping someone with this problem only a few weeks ago
<jussi01> huh?
<mok0> heh
<jussi01> ajmitch: let me remind you... [00:24]  <jussi01> Im all confused tonight...
<jussi01> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-28
<ajmitch> sorry, /r:Mono.Posix.dll
<ajmitch> and?
<mok0> He's on Linux
<ajmitch> so?
<ajmitch> that's why it uses Mono.Posix
<mok0> It doesn't look like linux syntax
<ajmitch> it ids
<ajmitch> s/ids/is/
<jussi01> ajmitch: go easy on me, :) where do i put that?
<ajmitch> in the makefile
<ajmitch> or .build
* ajmitch is just grepping irc logs
<mok0> Ah, its a switch on the mcs command
<ajmitch> yes
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<mok0> line 39
<ajmitch> 16:33 < tepsipakki> ajmitch: /d:MONONATIVE did the trick :)
<jussi01> hiya TheMuso
<jussi01> ok, so where in the makefile do i put it?
<mok0> you have to edit Makefile.am
<jussi01> ok
<jussi01> im there
<superm1> TheMuso, thanks for the catch on any/all on the gdm-theme.  I updated it again if you'd be able to look it over once more
<TheMuso> superm1: Let me get through my morning email backlog, and then I'll be able to have a look.
<jussi01> ajmitch: where do i put it ?
<superm1> k TheMuso thanks
<ajmitch> jussi01: given that I haven't got the source in front of me, I can't tell you
<jussi01> heh...ok
<jussi01> ajmitch: there is Makefile.am http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27506/
<mok0> jussi01: I think you want to try to edit src/FlaimProvider/FlaimWrapper/Makefile.am
<mok0> because that's where your build fails
<mok0> Add a line FlaimWrapper_CSCFLAGS = whatever ajmitch said
<jussi01> mok0: ate the end? start?
<mok0> There's a section that starts with FlaimWrapper_Target = $(LIB_PREF)...
<mok0> put it right there
<mok0> after that line
<mok0> If you grep for CSCFLAGS you can see those funny flags
<mok0> in Makefile
<jussi01> so: 
<jussi01> FlaimWrapper_Target = $(LIB_PREF)FlaimWrapper$(SHARED_LIB_EXT)
<jussi01> FlaimWrapper_CSCFLAGS = /r:Mono.Posix.dll
<mok0> Look ok
<jussi01> :)
<mok0> Looks ok
<mok0> Now run make
<TheMuso> calc: Congratulations!
<jussi01> nope, doesnt like me... do i have to do ./configure again?
<mok0> yes. 
<mok0> that will generate a Makefile from your Makefile.am
<mok0> you can grep and see if your switch is now in the Makefile
<jussi01> still gives me the same error...
<jussi01> :(
<AndyP> try /d:MONONATIVE - ajmitch said that too
<mok0> #&*?!!%&!!!
<jussi01> yeah, I just did...
<jussi01> freakin thing...
<mok0> Usually helps to sleep on it :-)
<jussi01> mok0: good idea... its 1.45 here...
<jussi01> ill try again tomorrow...
<mok0> OK see you later!
<jussi01> ok, goodnight, and thankyou once again..
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> did he neglect to run autoreconf, or automake?
<AndyP> :)
<AndyP> wow, only 44 merges left to do according to MoM... seems like a good number for this stage in the cycle
<TheMuso> That could go up at any moment.
<AndyP> really? i thought the debian autosyncing was finished
<TheMuso> I think packages that need merging still appear.
<TheMuso> But I am not sure.
* ajmitch wonders if the rc bugs list is actually working
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.net.nz/~ajmitch/missing-fixes-rc.html <-- I think it's sane, but that's just the voices speaking
<ajmitch> some problems there with case sensitivity again
<geser> as long as Debian maintainers upload new packages merges will appear and till the next Debian freeze is a long time
<ajmitch> may as well start filing syncs to fix rc bugs
<geser> ajmitch: can you add a timestamp to that page so one can bug you if it doesn't get updated anymore?
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I guess so
<geser> wordpress is also on the rc-list :(
<ajmitch> ok, done
<ajmitch> geser: that's expected, this only works by version number
* ajmitch refreshes page
<geser> it would be good if not every wordpress upload fixes a security bug
<ajmitch> it would be good if wordpress never had security problems
<pygi> ajmitch, :P
<ajmitch> there are some debian-specific (for now) bugs
<_Enchained> hi Motus
<_Enchained> I've a package waiting for +2 :)
<_Enchained> (thx TheMuso)
<_Enchained> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5779
<geser> this +2 sound almost like from a role-playing game: Ubuntu package +2 :)
<_Enchained> lol
* AndyP casts Unmetdep causing 5 damage. It is dark, you are likely to be eaten by a bug.
<AndyP> sorry :)
* _Enchained got the sabdfl sword to fight the bugs
<_Enchained> +100XP
<pygi> _Enchained, I can burn your sword
<pygi> so it's useless
* _Enchained throw a WindowsVista CD to pygi +2000 damage
<_Enchained> ...
<pygi> _Enchained, sorry, you didn't use the correct software to record the cd, so I gain 2000 energy
<nixternal> hey, what is the "REAL" difference between any and all for Architecture: in debian/control?
<nixternal> don't they both create an architecutre independent package?
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> "all" is arch-independent.  "any" isn't.
<TheMuso> There is a big difference actually.
<TheMuso> makes sense if you think about it.
<AndyP> all creates a package for all arches, any can create a package for any arch (i think)
<ScottK> crimsun: Do you have a moment for a PM?
<crimsun> ScottK: sure
<superm1> nixternal, any will run a build on every possible architecture, all only does one build
<crimsun> nixternal: any normally must be compiled into arch-specific object code.
<nixternal> superm1: and I just read that right as you said it, all == 1 package for all, and any == 1 package for each
<nixternal> now that makes sense to me
<TheMuso> superm1: gtk2-engines-mythbuntu given a second ack, and uploaded. Thanks a lot for your work.
<superm1> thanks TheMuso and nixternal for the revu's and upload
<TheMuso> superm1: You may have also seen my comment for blueheart.
* StevenK sighs. packages.d.o sucks. Hard.
<superm1> I forgot all about that upload.  I'll have to take a look. :)
<nixternal> TheMuso: the reason I asked about the all and any is because the 'nautilus-wallpaper' package has any, and I had noticed that for an icons package it was recommended to use all. wouldn't it make sense for a wallpaper package to do the same? arch all that is
<TheMuso> nixternal: Gah I totally missed that. Let me have anothe rlook.
<TheMuso> another even.
<nixternal> woohoo, I found one :)
<TheMuso> nixternal: No thats corect. If you look closer, nautilus-wallpaper is an extension, which is a shared object
<TheMuso> If you build it, you will notice usr/lib/nautilus/extensions-1.0/libnautilus-wallpaper.so.0.0.0
<nixternal> ahh, that it is
* nixternal acks then
<nixternal> shall I make it my first upload? :)
<TheMuso> May as well.
<nixternal> rock on
<TheMuso> I'd make sure that it builds and looks sane though first, just to be sure.
<StevenK> nixternal: Gah, who let you in? :-P
<TheMuso> Just so you get in the habbit.
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> already did :)
<TheMuso> Goodo.
<StevenK> nixternal: Congrats. :-)
<TheMuso> nixternal: Yeah, congratulations!
<nixternal> first thing I do, I dget the .dsc, build it, and while building it I go through and look at the dir in revu
<nixternal> thank you!
<nixternal> hahaha, this is sad, I don't even know what to put after dput ;p /me looks at /etc/dput.cf
* nixternal is so used to dput revu ;p
<TheMuso> dput ubuntu changesfile
<persia> nixternal: foo.changes
<TheMuso> remember to sign it.
<StevenK> I've set my default to be ubuntu
<_Enchained> nixternal thanx for your review
<nixternal> persia: ya, that I know :)
<nixternal> _Enchained: no problem
<StevenK> From time to time I've managed to upload to Ubuntu when I meant Debian.
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<nixternal> ubuntu is the default here as well
<_Enchained> for the arch, all is for java package for example, which is arch independant
<nixternal> I dput 2 debian packages to revu, so don't feel bad
<nixternal> but neither one of them showed up on revu
<pygi> patience, they will ;P
<nixternal> dunno, the last time I did it was a month ago
<nixternal> well, it said the upload was successful. at this point, successful means to me that WW III wasn't kicked off ;)
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> nixternal: Oh, it was, it's just very quiet at this point.
<LaserJock> anybody had problems mounting vfat in gutsy?
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> LaserJock: do usb sticks count as vfat?
<nixternal> at least I mount them as vfat, and I haven't had an issue
<ScottK> nixternal: In Gutsy, not Vista.
<StevenK> Muahaha
* nixternal creates a .changes that uploads melissa.virus.32
<nixternal> teehee
<nixternal> that wouldn't do anything fortunately
<StevenK> Except for you.
<nixternal> hrmm
<nixternal> Host 'heavymetal', running Linux 2.6.20-16-server - Cpu0: Pentium III 797 MHz; Up: 4d+16:45; Users: 1; Load: 0.27; Free: [Mem: 8/376 Mio]  [Swap: 831/831 Mio]  [/: 15011/18415 Mio] ; Vpenis: 27.2 cm;
<nixternal> well, that is my server, don't say much about my laptop :)
<StevenK> % ssh i sh ~steven/vpenis.sh
<StevenK> 136.0cm
<StevenK> That's my server.
<nixternal> damn, hahahaha
<geser> what happens when Hobbsee calls this script?
<nixternal> I knew it was only a matter of time, that is why I didn't say what I was going to say
<nixternal> ahh hell
<nixternal> damn StevenK, your server is hung!
<StevenK> Muaha
<StevenK> What, hung like several horses?
<StevenK> Ahem.
<geser> StevenK: keep care that your server doesn't get more enlargement spam
<nixternal> hehe
<StevenK> That server doesn't even have an MTA, so that isn't a problem.
<ajmitch> StevenK: how is merkel hung?
<LaserJock> hmm, a reboot fixed the mounting problem
<nixternal> once you upload a package from revu, do you archive that package?
<crimsun> yes.
<nixternal> k, thanks
<StevenK> % ssh merkel.debian.org sh vpenis.sh
<StevenK> 1773.0cm
<StevenK> Holy crap.
<crimsun> you also write an email to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c stating it was uploaded
<ajmitch> haha
<nixternal> crimsun: c/p the email that I received from the upload?
<crimsun> the relevant portions, sure
<nixternal> roger
<nixternal> anyone working to automate revu more than it is at all? i.e. doing this automagically? i.e, back to the frontpage type buttons, breadcrumbs, and anything else you can think of?
<ajmitch> nixternal: start hacking
<ajmitch> source is available
<StevenK> That's about as useful as "Patches welcome"
<AndyP> is it easy to install revu locally to test any changes you might make?
<nixternal> ajmitch: cool
<nixternal> that is all I needed to hear :)
* pygi thinks that ajmitch's primary task is to bug people to work more 
<nixternal> ajmitch: speaking of your snowstorm this past week, South Africa supposedly seen snow today/yesterday according to the news
* TheMuso returns
<LaserJock> nixternal: well, Mark told me he wants REVU to be incorporated into Launchpad
<LaserJock> hence things like PPA and bazaar
<LaserJock> nixternal and TheMuso it helps doing stats if you prefix your REVU emails with REVU: ;-)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah I know. I noticed that after I had sent the message.
<AndyP> PPA?
<nixternal> LaserJock: OK, I followed TheMuso as an example, so it is his fault ;p
<TheMuso> nixternal: Sure you have seen other posts to the list that have done it properly. Why even I did the correct thing earlier on when I uploaded another revu package.
<nixternal> LaserJock: tell mark in order to get REVU in LP, the LP has to be GPL'd ;)
<TheMuso> haha
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> LaserJock: and I seriously hope you were joking about REVU being incorporated into LP
<crimsun> no, it's not a joke
<nixternal> why do they want everything in LP? so when they do the deal with Microsoft everything is in one location?
* nixternal waits 1 hour and that post will be all things Linux FUD
<ajmitch> pygi: yes, and?
<StevenK> nixternal: Oh dear. Bitter much?
<nixternal> no, that was a joke :)
<nixternal> actually, maybe a bit of sarcasm actually
<crimsun> so yes, bitter.
<crimsun> don't worry, many MOTU are.
<ajmitch> he's still learning
<ajmitch> give him time
<nixternal> well, the LP thing is nice and all, but with it, you can't support this philosophy you preach, at leas that is what I feel
<nixternal> open source and free software all over ubuntu.com. that would be like RMS using Outlook for email
<nixternal> well maybe no that extreme ;p
<nixternal> not*
* TheMuso is not bitter.
<nixternal> that's not what she said
<TheMuso> if I was bitter, I wouldn't do this any more.
<nixternal> me either :)
<nixternal> when the Trinity goes, I go :)
<TheMuso> heh
<nixternal> ajmitch, LaserJock, and crimsun of course :)
<crimsun> I was never part of it.
* nixternal can picture ajmitch walking down theh road of Linux with a hobo like sack on a stick, with revu hanging out of the top of it
<LaserJock> nixternal: the problem is that REVU hasn't been updated, we don't have a lot of time for such things
<AndyP> ah, personal package archives
<LaserJock> nixternal: having the archive, bugs, package reviewing, etc. all in one system is nice
* AndyP burns another TLA
<nixternal> LaserJock: is there a list of things that people would like to see with revu?
<LaserJock> there is a REVU2 spec
<nixternal> LaserJock: that is very true what you just posted
<LaserJock> from like Montreal or something
<nixternal> OK, I will take a look at it
<nixternal> holy moley
<nixternal> montreal was like 2 years ago already
<crimsun> I don't mean to sound down, but the real problem is intractable.  We will not have enough manpower to handle it until several years from now.
<nixternal> a little over a year ago
<jsgotangco> man that was like only yesterday ;-)
<nixternal> hehe
<LaserJock> crimsun: what is "it"?
<ajmitch> nixternal: I've never been part of it either
<crimsun> LaserJock: the package review issue.
<LaserJock> crimsun: agreed
<crimsun> LP is not a panacea.
<nixternal> bah, horsepoop, you are a part of the trinity, I do't care what you say :)
<ajmitch> nixternal: if I was, you wouldn't be able to disagree with me
<LaserJock> no, but I brought it up because I don't know how much we want to put into a system that will be obsoleted
<nixternal> well, I think revu has one up on mentors though seeing as people can leave info right there
<nixternal> ajmitch: I can't disagree with you, I know where I stand your holyness
<LaserJock> let's see, I think the trinity was bddebian, imbrandon and myself? is that right?
<TheMuso> Speaking of bddebian...
<pygi> ajmitch, nothing, nothing :)
* TheMuso hasn't seen him lately.
<ajmitch> pygi: no, it wasn't nothing
<LaserJock> TheMuso: nope, probably has a life or something
<nixternal> bddebian is moses and imbrandon is ........holy smokes my bible portion of the brain just relapsed
<TheMuso> lol
<pygi> ajmitch, meh, you can't accept a joke?
<TheMuso> LaserJock: heh yeah. Unlike us. :)
<ajmitch> pygi: no, I can't
<crimsun> pygi: remember, many of us are bitter.
<pygi> ajmitch, ah
<pygi> crimsun, meh
<LaserJock> TheMuso: yeah ;-)
<LaserJock> everyone who's bitter raise their hand!
<nixternal> there is a pyramid going with those last 3 lines
* TheMuso keeps his hands firmly on the keyboard.
<nixternal> what am I supposed to be bitter about?
<LaserJock> everything of course
<nixternal> I think you all hold a different bitterness than I do maybe
<crimsun> I'm not bitter now.  There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
<ajmitch> life, the universe & everything
<LaserJock> crimsun: really? good for you
<crimsun> now whether it's an explosion or heaven is another matter altogether
<nixternal> hahaha
<LaserJock> my tunnel of dispair is just getting darker
<LaserJock> no light yet
<nixternal> I haven't even found the damn tunnel yet
* TheMuso has never had any light, but is still not bitter.
<TheMuso> s/had/experienced/
<LaserJock> well, speaking of LP, I had a good talk with kiko
<ajmitch> kiko is cool though
<nixternal> how could I be bitter towards Ubuntu/Kubuntu? it is given to me for free, I am allowed to work with super cool people (including you all, sometimes), and it has opened a lot of doors for me here in Chicago, and soon next door to crimsun 
<LaserJock> he really opologized for the "triaged" and "changelog doesn't close bug" regressions
<nixternal> I am bitter about how we are community ran, yet there is quite a bit of non-community stuff/ideas that gets thrown upon us w/o warning. not bitter, but annoyed
<LaserJock> and it sounds like they are going to start redirecting Beta Testers to edge in a week or so
<nixternal> ajmitch: he is cool, and so are the rest of the full-timers, but I don't think it is there fault really
<LaserJock> so there should be quite a bit more testing before rollout
<nixternal> nice
<LaserJock> I'm also going to start tracking the milestones better
<LaserJock> now that they are actually using them
<AndyP> launchpad needs its own hug day
<LaserJock> they're called Fix-it-Fridays ;-)
<nixternal> AndyP: the people who work on launchpad need a hug :)
<AndyP> nixternal: don't we all :)
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock> one thing we'll have on the next rollout is bzr smartserver
<nixternal> java class extensions are rediculous...cool idea, but my lord slow as all hell
<LaserJock> so bzr checkouts should be a lot faster
<nixternal> LaserJock: ya, we have a local bzr dev for canonical in chicago, he has provided some neat insite on bzr and its future
<nixternal> I am trying to get him and Sussman in the same room together for a talk
<ajmitch> yeah, we have a local bzr+lp developer here in dunedin, who I've had lunch with a couple of times
<nixternal> Sussman actually admitted they use Bzr at Google
<ajmitch> he's in london this week though
<RAOF> LaserJock: Yeah, jml recently pushed that bzr+ssh code :)
<TheMuso> /aw
<ajmitch> LaserJock: yay!
<ajmitch> it took about an hour to checkout a branch today
* jml waves
<ajmitch> a recent cvs import
<ajmitch> hey jml :)
<nixternal> hiya jml 
<ajmitch> see, we can't get away from the lp developers
<nixternal> ajmitch: like I said, not their fault I don't think :)
<LaserJock> we should also be to set/change tags via email
<nixternal> they are creating an amazing product
<ajmitch> jml almost seemed normal when I met him...
<nixternal> LaserJock: I like that idea
<nixternal> hahaha ajmitch 
<jml> ajmitch: that's one of the nicest things anyone has said about me in a while
<ajmitch> heh
<nixternal> gahahaha
<crimsun> hmm, setting/changing tags via email.  It wasn't too long ago that someone mentioned not liking Debian BTS...
<LaserJock> heah, Debian BTS doesn't like me
<LaserJock> ;-)
<RAOF> ...because you can only do stuff by email?
* StevenK has a soft spot for the BTS.
<nixternal> Debian BTS takes some getting used to, but once you do (and create email templates like I did in advance), it is actually quite nice
<nixternal> it is quicker than LP for me at times
<StevenK> Maybe because I've been using it for roughly six years
<nixternal> definitely quicker than KDE Bugzilla
<LaserJock> I really just haven't gotten used to it
<LaserJock> LP is the only bug tracker I feel comfortable with
<nixternal> there needs to be a solid document that shows off everything Debian BTS in one location, not 6
<LaserJock> which probably says how much I've used other bug trackers
<nixternal> Debian documentation is horrible, not the main docs like d.o/doc, but the other docs
* RAOF likes LP more than any other bugtracker I've tried.
<LaserJock> when BTS gets a web frontend I'll be happy
<StevenK> nixternal: There is. The soure.
<StevenK> source, even
<RAOF> LaserJock: Yeah.
<nixternal> to find out everything Debian has about debian/rules, your breakcrumb list would be 2 miles long
<LaserJock> another thing slated for the next LP rollout is automatic "Needs Info" exipring
<RAOF> Cool.
<nixternal> awesome!
<StevenK> Why? I don't think so. debian/rules is just a makefile.
<AndyP> you mean Incomplete
<crimsun> right, Incomplete, I presume.
<nixternal> so that way there I don't get yelled out for closing a bug that hasn't been touched for 2 years and was never repeatable
<RAOF> :)
<nixternal> StevenK: sorry, not debian/rules, debian/control is what I meant
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not sure what exactly the time limit will be
<crimsun> it's a bit humorous that many people repeatedly ignore "Incomplete/Needs Info" but will yell upon "Invalid/Won't Fix/Rejected"
<StevenK> nixternal: Even so, I still disagree.
<nixternal> my debian/rules files are at most 5 lines because of cdbs, unless I am doing relibtoolization
* RAOF goes to file 2 debian bugs so we can sync python-pyinotify and gst-plugins-farsight next time.
<nixternal> StevenK: there is the NM Guide, the DD Guide, and neither one of them contains everything there is to know about debian/control. But there are about 4 or 5 wiki pages that have info and explanations that the 2 docs don't and so forth
<nixternal> a lot of personal pages that need to be easily navigated to as well for packaging information
<LaserJock> I like the Debian Policy personally
<nixternal> that is a good read
<LaserJock> once I got over being overwhelmed
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> ya, it has quite a bit to stomach
<LaserJock> now I know, in general, where everything is
<StevenK> Debian Policy should contain mostly everything.
<nixternal> I have a binder now where I have printed out all of the Debian docs
<LaserJock> so I can quickly find what I need
<AndyP> it's an excellent reference but i wouldn't read it at bedtime
<LaserJock> and it actually describes stuff
<LaserJock> nixternal:  they should put it on lulu.com so people can order printed copies
<nixternal> heh, I read all of the docs at bed time
<LaserJock> I'd spend so much in ink printing out all that stuff
<nixternal> I read 1 chapter of python, go over packaging docs/dd docs, and stuff like that while I fall asleep
<LaserJock> I don't really read anymore
<nixternal> ya, I have blown a lot of ink printing them, and when there is an update, it gets printed as well
<LaserJock> they should have print diffs ;-)
<LaserJock> so you only print out the pages that are different
<StevenK> I don't print stuff out. You can't grep dead trees.
<nixternal> damn LaserJock, that is a good idea
<TheMuso> StevenK: Agreed.
* LaserJock quickly registers a project on LP and uploads an empty bzr branch
<nixternal> StevenK: nope, but when you are lying in bed and your significant other is snoring, and...
<nixternal> well you read :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: get to flowcharting it, I will work on the Qt4 frontend for it
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> the only thing I'm reading these days is C++
<nixternal> I am getting ready to give a Java and Qt4 demonstration here
<StevenK> nixternal: I read novels in that circumstance.
<nixternal> LaserJock: same here as well
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get my brain wrapped around it
<nixternal> StevenK: Playboy isn't a novel!
<LaserJock> I *used* to read novels (Lord of the Rings, Narnia, etc.)
<nixternal> LaserJock: it is actually fairly easy once you understand it, I think I picked it up way quicker than I am with Python truthfully
<LaserJock> but now I just work on Ubuntu 'til the last possible minute
<LaserJock> nixternal: really?
<nixternal> 'til the last possible minute' == LaserJock get yo ass to bed now! from the wife :)
<LaserJock> I was productive with python from day one
<LaserJock> exactly
<nixternal> ya, I suck at Python
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I could do Hello World that well in C++
<LaserJock> well, I'm not quite that bad
<nixternal> I am getting better, I have written a small Qt4 app that will eventually enable/disable IPv6 for KDE if you are on an IPv4 network. this decreases the DNS lookups to clients that aren't there, and speeds up browsing in Konqui 
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> #include <iostrea>
<nixternal> using namespace std;
<LaserJock> but I have a hard time keeping track of all the different things, pointers, constructors, destructors, types, etc.
<nixternal> int main(){ cout << "HELLO WORLD!"; return 0; }
<RAOF> nixternal: Oldschool.  New compilers require std::cout :)
<nixternal> well, I was confused with them for a while myself, but this java course has made it so clear now that it isn't even funny
<pygi> nixternal, wrong, you'r missing the "m" in include :)
<nixternal> huh?
<nixternal> hahahaha
<crimsun> RAOF: he included a default namespace.
<nixternal> I sure am
<nixternal> yup
<RAOF> Bah. Missed that :)
<nixternal> using namespace std;
<nixternal> hehe
<pygi> RAOF, works without it :)
<StevenK> crimsun: Bah, I was about to say that.
<nixternal> I was working on it
<RAOF> pygi: Even if you include <iostream>, rather than <iostream.h>?  It's been a while since I've tried :)
<nixternal> but the brain to finger mechanism froze again
<StevenK> nixternal: Again? Or still?
<pygi> RAOF, you aren't actually supposed to include iostream.h :)
<nixternal> still I guess
<nixternal> include "iostream.h" if it is in the source dir maybe :)
<RAOF> pygi: Yes, I know.  You also aren't actually supposed to use the un-namespaced "cout" :)
<pygi> RAOF, but he did use: "use namespace std;" :)
<LaserJock> hmm, "How many Ubuntu devs does it take to write Hello World in C++"
<pygi> LaserJock, 0.1 :)
<nixternal> haha
<RAOF> pygi: Oh, I thought your "works without it" was "works without namespacing at all"
<nixternal> I just wrote it, all I forgot was the m
<pygi> RAOF, no :p
<RAOF> I've recently started hacking on a compiz plugin, which needs to be in C.  Man, I wish it was python :)
<StevenK> RAOF: To do what?
<pygi> RAOF, C rocks, leave C alone :)
<LaserJock> well, I'm going to head home, perhaps I'll do some C++ tonight. I figured out what a constructor that has a parent constructor looks like
<pygi> LaserJock, :-D
<RAOF> pygi: If I wanted to deal with memory allocation, I'd use assembly.  I'd like a language where I can ensure that memory is freed when an object leaves scope, thanks. :)
<pygi> RAOF, you don't bash on C, or you'll have to deal with me :)
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK sighs at packages.debian.org again, and constructs a sync request manually.
<RAOF> StevenK: A different (radial) window-switcher idea (yeah, I know they already have 2).  It'll group windows by the owning application, though, and that only really works in a radial-type idea.
<gnomefreak> anyone have link to the NEW query for packages waiting for push to archives?
<StevenK> gnomefreak: launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue ?
<gnomefreak> StevenK: ty
<StevenK> RAOF: I love how CompComm can group multiple windows into one.
<StevenK> They still need a better name than CompComm
<RAOF> Compiz-Fusion is the final name.
<StevenK> Aw
<RAOF> Check out the Gutsy packages :)
<StevenK> I quite liked the name 'Coral' which I heard a few times.
<RAOF> Pretty much no-one else did :)
<StevenK> Awww.
<RAOF> Importantly, none of the developers did, and so they finally made an actual decision.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I've had to construct a few manually.
<RAOF> So, back to topic: I've patched configure.ac and configure.  How can I prevent the build from trying to re-autotools?  Can anyone suggest a source package which does that with cdbs?
<StevenK> RAOF: Hrm. It shoudn't.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I've done a whole bunch, I just prefer not to. :-)
<nixternal> argh, I guess the java upload today removed my damn netbeans
<ajmitch> yay!
<ajmitch> nixternal: btw, define "being on an ipv6 network"
<RAOF> StevenK: Oh, is that maintainer mode?  Checking timestamps and trying to re-gen configure & Makefile.in ?
<ajmitch> having a default ipv6 route set? link-local addresses?
<StevenK> RAOF: I have no idea...
<StevenK> RAOF: I tend to find out stuff about autotools, and then forget it within an hour out of sheer self-defense. :-)
<RAOF> :)
<ajmitch> trying to defend your sanity? it's a lost cause
* RAOF will try playing with the patch again.
<StevenK> That cause was lost long ago.
<crimsun> mm, compiz in gutsy has come a long way
* StevenK is rsyncing a Live CD so he can see.
<pygi> crimsun, mvo was on it all day and night for ages :P
<ajmitch> crimsun: I still don't like it, it slows down windowed opengl stuff too much
<StevenK> I'm entirely unsure if rsync is actually downloading the whole lot or not. :-/
<StevenK> Hrm. It's hit 1.54MB/s and it's on 2Mbit, so I think it's skipping bits.
<RAOF> Huzzah!  In case anyone else is interested, a cdbs rule which is run after patching but before configure is post-patches :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: cool thanks for the tidbit.
<ScottK> Is it to late to join the bitter club?
<TheMuso> Yes, the club has been dispanded.
* ScottK slinks off in the corner for some lonely bitterness then ...
<StevenK> Its also been disbanded.
<TheMuso> No bitterness here.
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> head not screwed on this morning
* TheMuso can be a shocker at english sometimes
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :P
<StevenK> TheMuso: ... Sometimes?
* StevenK runs and hides.
* TheMuso pulls the Ethernet cable from StevenK's machine.
<TheMuso> ...or wireless AP
<ajmitch> TheMuso: that's like switching off his life support
<ajmitch> you're just evil
<StevenK> Right then.
<TheMuso> Not nearly as evil as some around here.
* ajmitch looks for the hobbsee
<TheMuso> Even then I don't think anybody is evil.
<LaserJock> back
<StevenK> ajmitch: I daresay I'm not going to be here much from this afternoon until tomorrow evening, so I don't think so.
<ajmitch> welcome back, mr LaserJock 
<ajmitch> StevenK: oh well
* StevenK has unpleasant things to deal with.
<ajmitch> work?
<StevenK> Worse.
<LaserJock> life?
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> My uncle passed away on the weekend, and I'm dealing with that fun.
<gnomefreak> is there a such thing as an easy merge?
<LaserJock> oh, that's uncool
* gnomefreak wants to start easy
<RAOF> Aw, man.  What files do I need to touch to prevent configure trying to re-autotools stuff.
<gnomefreak> StevenK: sorry to hear that
<RAOF> gnomefreak: Oh, yes, definitely.
<LaserJock> StevenK: sorry to hear that 
<StevenK> LaserJock, gnomefreak: Thanks.
<RAOF> StevenK: Sorry to hear that.
<ajmitch> StevenK: ah, sorry
<RAOF> gnomefreak: For example, if gst-plugins-farsight's upstream build system wasn't broken, it would be an easy merge :/
<StevenK> The bigger problem is that my uncle is going to buried quite close to where my father is buried, which is bringing up a lot of other fun stuff, too.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Sorry to hear that. I will have to face a similar situation soon anyway, as my grandmother has cancer in the liver, and has only been given months to live.
<TheMuso> So yeah, fun time ahead ofr me also.
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> I'm just not used to seeing an image on my computer and twitching from memories.
<LaserJock> mhm
<ScottK> StevenK: My condolences.  No fun at all.
<LaserJock> nixternal: still around?
<ScottK> TheMuso: You too.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Twill be a while yet. I am not worrying over it at this point.
<nixternal> LaserJock: I am heading home
<nixternal> give me about an hour
<LaserJock> nixternal: fine be that way ;-)
<TheMuso> heh
<LaserJock> nixternal: I just wanted to ask you if you use kdevelop
<ajmitch> sigh, a sign I really should update & upload this code I have
<wolfeon> is there any way to release a package after a release which was accidently not included ?
<wolfeon> php-interbase was not released for fiesty
<wolfeon> possibly not in gutsy right now too
<ajmitch> only by backports
<wolfeon> ajmitch: aww, damn it :(
<wolfeon> oh well ;)
<wolfeon> I don't need ibwebmin, its just nice to have.. 
<StevenK> And only then if php-interbase makes it back into Gutsy.
<wolfeon> StevenK: yeah...
<StevenK> Personally, I'd rather it didn't. PHP is a pile of crap and Interbase is worse.
<wolfeon> I've no idea why it was not included, did some mysql shill come around and ignore it on purpose? ;)
<wolfeon> StevenK: oh, I couldn't give a flying leap about interbase. Firebird has made great progress since the release of the interbase source code
<StevenK> No, the reason is that php is in main, and interbase is in universe, and a package in main can't Build-Depend on something in universe.
<StevenK> Firebird is just as bad.
<wolfeon> StevenK: I've seen plenty of firebird 1.5 apps run forever, and stable
<wolfeon> and fast
<wolfeon> its only 5 gigs, but it is fast as mysql for what I'm using it for.
<wolfeon> I actually am eager for a Firebird 2.2 release, they're really beefing it up.
<wolfeon> *2.1, heh
<LaserJock> I've just been mad at them ever since they took Firefox's name ;-)
<wolfeon> LaserJock: pfft :P I think it was funny.
<wolfeon> LaserJock: Mozilla is big and stronger, I'm surprised they didn't keep the name and force FB to change theirs :)
<nixternal> LaserJock: yes I use KDevelop, but not as often as I would like :)
<nixternal> I use Kate more than anything really
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to write a makefile
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone
<LaserJock> I noticed Kdevelop sets up a lot of stuff
<joejaxx> :)
<nixternal> kdevelop creates the bones of one for you
<nixternal> ahh, ya
<nixternal> I have written 1 makefile my entire life, and that was for a kde sys admin app back in the 90s :)
<nixternal> I picked about 20 other makefiles to make this one :)
<LaserJock> you'd think for all the packaging I've done I could figure out how to write an apps Makefile
<StevenK> LaserJock: What's the problem?
<LaserJock> nixternal: btw, kdevelop's C++ Hello World is a bit bigger than yours
<LaserJock> well
<nixternal> haha, it is huge
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, I'm creating something from scratch
<nixternal> I believe it also has its own header file that comes with it as well
<StevenK> LaserJock: Do you need to compile something, or are you just installing things?
<LaserJock> compiling
<LaserJock> I'm creating an app from scratch
<StevenK> So you need a rule to compile the application, and another to install it.
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if I need all the autotools stuff
<StevenK> I doubt it.
<LaserJock> what I'm doing is creating a plugin for an app
<LaserJock> but I want to build the basic function first standalone
<StevenK> LaserJock: Right, I think I know what the problem is. You're unsure of how to write a Makefile from scratch, right?
<LaserJock> StevenK: exactly, I've only done like single file Fortran and Python apps
<StevenK> LaserJock: I'm happy to pastebin a incredibly simple Makefile for you.
<LaserJock> StevenK: that'd be cool
<StevenK> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27559/
<StevenK> I'm pretty crap at writing Makefiles, but they get the job done.
<LaserJock> StevenK: so I'd have app1.cc and app2.cc, right?
<LaserJock> and if I need a library do I put that in CFLAGS ?
<StevenK> Yes. And you can either put it on the $(CC) line, or in CFLAGS.
<nixternal> man, that is a nice and easy makefile :)
<StevenK> $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -o app $^
<StevenK> That's a better rule.
<wolfeon> LaserJock: I try to stay away from autohell
<wolfeon> LaserJock: autohell is nothing but a waste of time
<StevenK> $^ expands out to "all targets this current one depends on"
<StevenK> LaserJock: Correction posted, now with a clean rule.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Does that help?
<jburd> Can gcc builds on Ubuntu include the bounds-checking patch for gcc?
<jburd> That can greatly help developers iron out boundary access violations.
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, but I can't build Hello World :/
<crimsun> jburd: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+filebug
* RAOF punches the air!
<RAOF> Touching all of "configure.ac aclocal.m4 config.h.in Makefile.in Makefile.am" prevents re-autotooling.
<RAOF> Should I bother trying to find the minimal set?
<crimsun> you shouldn't need to touch both Makefile.in and Makefile.am.  In fact, touching the former should suffice of those two.
<RAOF> crimsun: Yeah, I though as much.  Thanks.
* RAOF browses the wiki "Tracker is a synergy of technologies...".  Wow.  I didn't know that was the collective noun for technology :)
<LaserJock> StevenK: do you have any idea why your makefile would cause something to not build?
<ajmitch> RAOF: of course, marketing doesn't need to make sense
<RAOF> But this is in the "tracker-by-default" spec wiki page.  Some non-marketing person wrote that :)
<LaserJock> StevenK: I tried c++ -Wall -g -o hello hello.cc and it works
<LaserJock> but make all doesn't
<ajmitch> RAOF: I suspect it was cut & pasted, or put there by someone who actually cares too much about tracker :)
<RAOF> :)
<AndyP> StevenK: bug #122746 - small debdiff for a new saods9 bug if you're not busy/jaded :) or i could subscribe u-u-s instead
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122746 in saods9 "couldn't read file "/usr/lib/tcllib1.8/base64/base64.tcl"" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122746
<LaserJock> StevenK: nvm, it's $(CC) that's the problem
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ah.
<RAOF> LaserJock: Does it complain about missing libstdc++?
<StevenK> AndyP: Hum? I thought I fixed saods9.
<AndyP> StevenK: yup, you got it to build...
<RAOF> Because, last time I tried, that's what "gcc -Wall -o test test.cpp" would do.
<StevenK> AndyP: Which means that bug is fixed, or still neds to be fixed?
<LaserJock> hello.o:(.eh_frame+0x11): undefined reference to `__gxx_personality_v0'
<AndyP> StevenK: still needs fixing (it's a runtime loading problem), it's against your newer revision of it
<RAOF> LaserJock: I think -lstdc++ should fix that.
<StevenK> Sigh, I see.
<StevenK> LaserJock: Set CC = g++ a the top of the makefile
<LaserJock> RAOF: how weird, that work
<LaserJock> worked
<LaserJock> is that because I was using gcc ?
<LaserJock> instead of g++
<AndyP> StevenK: i blame the messy code, myself, those hardcoded paths are criminal
<StevenK> AndyP: Agreed.
<StevenK> AndyP: I think upstream needs to be taught a lesson. With an elephant gun.
<AndyP> or an elephant
* StevenK grins
<AndyP> squish squish
<StevenK> Actually, it gets better. Have a look at the Windows paths.
<StevenK> +     source C:/cygwin/home/joye/saods9/lib/tcl8.4/http2.5/http.tcl
<StevenK> +     source C:/cygwin/home/joye/saods9/lib/tcllib1.6/base64/base64.tcl
<jburd> Who's writing Makefiles manually? ;-)
<lifeless> fark
<RAOF> LaserJock: Yes, I believe so.
<AndyP> StevenK: i'm speechless
<RAOF> ...
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's pretty special
<StevenK> Indeed.
<LaserJock> \o/ I can make hello world!!!
<ajmitch> congrats
<lifeless> /o\o/
<lifeless> /oXo/
<LaserJock> now I just gotta figure out how to do libxml2 and push/pull xml over http
<StevenK> AndyP: You forgot to add use_tcllib_1.9 to 00list
* AndyP slaps himself
<StevenK> AndyP: I've done it, I'm doing a test build now.
<AndyP> StevenK: thanks... i really should stop staying up til 5:30am
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<RAOF> Heya Hobbsee!
<ajmitch> welcome back, TheMuso 
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, RAOF, TheMuso :)
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<TheMuso> Sparky has been again.
<StevenK> AndyP: Looks fine.
<AndyP> StevenK: good-o, thanks for looking at it
<StevenK> AndyP: Successfully uploaded packages.
<RAOF> Woho!  gst-plugins-farsight merge (bug #114444) is (finally) ready for sponsorship, I think :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 114444 in gst-plugins-farsight "merge gst-plugins-farsight-0.12.1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/114444
<minghua> does anyone happen to know some documentation about removing .la files and patch .pc files to use private required lib list?
<StevenK> RAOF: Don't look at me, you reached your quota for the week yesterday.
<StevenK> RAOF: :-P
<RAOF> Now, to file a bug against the broken debian package!
<RAOF> StevenK: It'll keep :)
<TheMuso> i'LL TAKE T IF NOBODY ELSE WANTS IT.
<TheMuso> S/TI/IT/
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> TheMuso must *really* want it
<TheMuso> i AM NOT FUSSED EITHER WAY.
<RAOF> And then to file a bug against broken upstream build system!
<ajmitch> TheMuso: caps!
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Figured that out. Thanks.
<TheMuso> its just that I am busy with something else, so if someone else wants it, take it, otherwise I am happy to do it.
<ajmitch> funny comment in an email: "Seb is a good MOTU (used lot of his packages :) )  & I am sure he means well."
<ajmitch> talking about seb128
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> what was that in reference to?
<ajmitch> latest email on -devel-discuss
<LaserJock> nvm, I found it
<minghua> are core developers considered MOTUs (if they didn't join MOTU specifically)?
<lifeless> yes
<StevenK> AndyP: Are you able to test that the other saods9 bug is fixed?
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, they aren't specifically members of ~motu anymore
<LaserJock> but they are members of ~ubuntu-dev
<lifeless> and ubuntu-dev is a member of motu I think you'll find
<AndyP> StevenK: the other one?
<Hobbsee> lifeless: what happens if Team A is a member of team B, and team B is a member of team A?
<minghua> thanks, lifeless, LaserJock.  this team relationship always confuses me
<minghua> still funny to hear seb128 referred as an MOTU though
<Hobbsee> minghua: it's shirish.  what do you expect?
<StevenK> AndyP: Lemme find the number
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: now now
<StevenK> AndyP: #122329
<minghua> Hobbsee: actually I don't read his email anymore after the SI unit thread
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> now there's a thought.  blocking his entire address
<Hobbsee> but people quote him...
<AndyP> StevenK: i'll give it a try
<lifeless> Hobbsee: heat death of the universe
<lifeless> Hobbsee: actually from a math persepective its easy - its just a graph cycle so you stop scanning out when you see an entity you've already looked at, and you consider a team looked at *before* you expand it.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: riiiight
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Now's the time to try it with ubuntumembers and kubuntu-members while all the LP devs are sleeping.
<Hobbsee> heh
* ajmitch hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> i'd prefer not to do that
<dholbach> good morning
* dholbach hugs ajmitch back
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
* Hobbsee will just add various kubuntu-interested type people to kubuntu members, if they're already in ubuntumembers
<pygi> morning dholbach 
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach :D
<Hobbsee> ScottK: mainly because i dont want any random gnomer to be able to commit
<dholbach> hi pygi
<TheMuso> Heya dholbach.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree.  I just thought if you were going to experiment, it'd be fun to give them a nice first thing in the morning present.
<lifeless> ScottK: *cough*, I'd rather you didn't. manual SQL to fix things is such a nuisance.
<lifeless> ScottK: *and*, *I'm* not sleeping.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
* ScottK didn't know you were an LP dev.
<lifeless> :)
<lifeless> I help lp by running the review team amongst other things; I keep meaning to write more LP code than I do, but yeah. 
<ajmitch> not only an LP dev, one of the longest serving employees
<ajmitch> lifeless: are you #1 or #2?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: lifeless lives about an hour from me, i think.  so it'd be good to avoid pissing him off.
<ajmitch> hehe
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Understand.
<ScottK> Good for you anyway...
<TheMuso> haha
<lifeless> ajmitch: depends if you count 'full time' or 'employee'
<lifeless> ajmitch: Scott counts from 'full time', I count from 'started work' :)
<ajmitch> right :)
<AndyP> StevenK: that bug's still there
* ScottK admires dholbach's persistence with shirish in #ubuntu-bugs, gets tired watching, and goes to bed.
<ScottK> Good night.
<StevenK> AndyP: Woot.
<dholbach> night ScottK
<Hobbsee> dholbach: just hasnt been driven insane yet
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
* LaserJock stabs Makefiles with a big sharp knife
<AndyP> $ make bleed
<minghua> LaserJock: do you plan to reply to the mail to -science about Ubuntu Science Edition?  How usable is Edubuntu Live CD for him?
<StevenK> LaserJock: What's the issue now?
<TheMuso> imbrandon!!
<LaserJock> StevenK: well, I wanted to add libxml2
<LaserJock> StevenK: but I can't figure out how to get it to pick it up
<StevenK> LaserJock: Add -lxml2 to the CFLAGS?
<LaserJock> right, no go
<LaserJock> it doesn't seem to like CFLAGS
<LaserJock> I put in an echo $(CFLAGS) and it doesn't print anything
<RAOF> LDFLAGS?
<StevenK> Can you pastebin what it says?
<LaserJock> in fact I commented out the whole $(CC) line and it gave the same thing
<minghua> handmade Makefiles should die
<LaserJock> minghua: be nice :-)
<LaserJock> StevenK: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27580/ has Makefile and result
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<minghua> huh?  you are allowed to stab it, but I'm not allowed to say it should die? :-P
<StevenK> pubchem.cc:105: error: exit was not declared in this scope
<StevenK> LaserJock: You're missing #include <cstdlib>
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I suppose that is hypocritical
<StevenK> Anyway, you should return 0, not exit 0
<LaserJock> StevenK: ok, but g++ -o pubchem `xml2-config --cflags` pubchem.cc `xml2-config --libs` worked just fine
<LaserJock> I don't understand the difference
<minghua> also I think LaserJock needs -I instead of -l
<StevenK> LaserJock: Because your shell expands ``, and make doesn't.
<LaserJock> oh
<minghua> damn, -I and -l are almost indistinguishable in dejavu sans
<StevenK> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27581/
* RAOF resists the temptation to reply to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=486437
<LaserJock> StevenK: hmm, same thing
<Hobbsee> RAOF: haha.  reply regardless
<StevenK> Ugh.
<LaserJock> minghua: regarding Ubuntu Science Edition, yes I am planning a reply
<LaserJock> minghua: I'm just trying to figure out how to say "Think of the kittens!!!"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<StevenK> Oh, I know why.
<minghua> LaserJock: okay, I'll wait then, you definitely know more about Edubuntu than I do
<StevenK> LaserJock: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/27582/
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I'm not sure that Edubuntu will be sufficient
<nixternal> yay me, release notes are 99.9% finished, until JR wakes up and adds more stuff for me to fix :)
<LaserJock> minghua: but I'm not convinced a Science Edition will really work
<minghua> LaserJock: I know, but I really hate distro fragmentation
<LaserJock> there are so many different science apps for so many different fields
<LaserJock> I *am* planning on building some metapackages for Edubuntu that might be helpful
<minghua> and I don't believe there will be _one_ "science edition" that fits all
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: good response @ the kubuntu thread
<minghua> a "Biophysics edition", perhaps.  or more likely, a "Protein Folding Edition"
<minghua> LaserJock: I agree metapackage sounds the right way to go
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: hope so, I hate speaking for the Kubuntu folks
<jml> I wonder what a Humanities edition would look like.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: forums people are just...uneducated.  and dont think outside teh forums word
<Hobbsee> *world
<LaserJock> StevenK: closer, but not quite
<LaserJock> StevenK: I've got to go to bed though
<LaserJock> I'll try to thrash around with it again tomorrow
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, then it's our job to "educate" them then ;-)
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, we'll see
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i have a few billion things i want to do.  that one falls to someone else.
<minghua> BTW I just read today that there is a Ubuntu Muslim Edition
<LaserJock> minghua: I'm more inclined to see a nice way to create custom CDs for individual departments
<LaserJock> yes
<StevenK> LaserJock: Right.
<LaserJock> it's been around for a while
<LaserJock> as well as Ubuntu Satanic Edition
<StevenK> Ubuntu Satanic has been around a while.
<LaserJock> I think I also heard of a Buddist or Hindu edition
<LaserJock> I think Muslim was started before Satanic but I'm not postive
* minghua is curious what a buddist edition would add
<lifeless> add or remove
<AndyP> ah religion, i expect there'll be a vi edition without emacs or nano at some point
<LaserJock> right, off to bed, thanks a ton StevenK 
<jsgotangco> put all those google apps running on linux and make default google bookmarks and you have Google OS
<jsgotangco> :D
<jsgotangco> (they just released google desktop for linux btw)
<AndyP> i thought they already had a goobuntu
<AndyP> internally
<AndyP> hi Fujitsu 
<dholbach> can somebody give reconstructor  ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5798 )  a second review? I gave it my OK already.
<Fujitsu> Hi AndyP.
* Fujitsu returns from the land of dead Dell AC adapters with incredibly long waiting times for replacements.
<StevenK> Ha. Ha ha. Hahaha
<StevenK> Should have bought IBM. :-P
* Fujitsu is on a Pentium II or so, which was just revived after several years in storage.
<AndyP> ouch
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Can you test build and sponsor these uploads of texlive and openoffice.org? :-P
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hehehe. No.
<LaserJock> minghua, Fujitsu: quick question. I got a new ubuntu-motu-science list. Should we make that the bug contact? so we can use the current ubuntu-science for discussion?
<Fujitsu> I'm now mostly working from a screen session on the new AMD X2 at school, so it's not too bad.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Might as well.
<LaserJock> or would the reverse be better?
<minghua> yay for new list
<Fujitsu> I personally think the list shouldn't be used for bugmail at all, and it should be sent directly to people in the team.
<minghua> I don't know, it would be nice to have the discussion list on official server, but that means moving for everyone
<minghua> I am indifferent on using list as bugmail contact
<Fujitsu> But that probably is only practical if LP provides an option for people to opt-out of LP bugmail for a team... and I can't see that happening.
* TheMuso returns and wonders what the topic of conversation is.
<ajmitch> m/win 44
<lifeless> indeed
<ajmitch> time for me to go & enjoy the cold
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: How cold is it around your place?
<ajmitch> frosty enough
<Fujitsu> Mmm... Sounds nice.
<ajmitch> yeah
<man-di_> ajmitch: you just spoofed me
<ajmitch> ?
* AndyP decides it's finally bed time
<Fujitsu> Parts delivery should be 10-15 working days upon of the payment
<Fujitsu> confirmation only. 
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<Fujitsu> Right over the school holidays, too.
<man-di_> ajmitch: you wrote "frosty enough" and I thought "is this work related?" (The company I work for is called "Enough software"
<ajmitch> oh dear
<man-di_> note to myself: Dont highlight "enough" in all channels
<ajmitch> no, you'd get far too many highlights
<ajmitch> anyway, back later
<superm1> LaserJock, when did you request your list?
<Hobbsee> geser: *raised eyebrows*
<Hobbsee> geser: well, as everyone knows...on the interweb, the men are men, the women are men, and the little girls are FBI agents...so you'll have to figure that one out yourself.
<dholbach> can somebody give reconstructor  ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5798 )  a second review? I gave it my OK already.
<TheMuso> dholbach: Ok, will look it over.
<dholbach> gracias TheMuso
<jussi01> good morning all
<TheMuso> Hey jussi01.
<dholbach> hey jussi01
<jussi01> hi TheMuso dholbach
<jussi01> hmmm, make install shouldnt require sudo should it?
<jussi01> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27595/
<minghua> jussi01: it should.  you can use fakeroot though
<jussi01> minghua: ok, thanks :)
<minghua> jussi01: sorry, I misunderstood
<Ng> jussi01: make install is writing to system directories (/usr/local in this case), so it absolutely will need root to work
<minghua> jussi01: so you are installing to /usr/local?
<minghua> then you need real sudo
<jussi01> minghua: yeah, I just used real sudo and it worked:)
<jussi01> thanks
<minghua> or add yourself to some group that can write to /usr/local
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> gah, this is such an annoying program to compile...
* jussi01 asks again for the command to find what package a certain file is in... (gdk-2.0.pc) 
<geser> jussi01: apt-file or packages.ubuntu.com
<minghua> jussi01: dpkg -S if you have it installed
<minghua> jussi01: in this case libgtk2.0-dev
<TheMuso>   /aw Away
<jussi01> thank you, both of you :D
<jussi01> hmmm... you guys must be reall sick of me... but if someones got a minut, could they help me with this? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27598/
<Monk-e> Dammit jussi01 I'm really sick of you now!
<Monk-e> ;)
* jussi01 tickles Monk-e
<minghua> wow, c# compiling error
<minghua> not something I can help
<jussi01> yeah, ouchies huh...
<jussi01> maybe i should poke ajmitch about it. he was really helpful last night :D
* pygi looks
<jussi01> :)
<pygi> what's up with so many warnings o.O
<ajmitch> jussi01: hm?
<pygi> and why mcs instead of gmcs?
<pygi> o well
<ajmitch> pygi: why do you assume that gmcs must be used?
<jussi01> ajmitch: i got the one from last night to compile. but it was only a dep for this
<pygi> ajmitch, I don't, but I'd suggest that
<ajmitch> pygi: I don't understand why
<jussi01> pygi: i have both installed
<pygi> ajmitch, ah :)
* pygi shall just be quiet for the rest of the day
<ajmitch> unless it uses C# 2.0 libs, it doesn't need gmcs
<pygi> true that, but ...
<Monk-e> jussi01, perhaps it's that?
* ajmitch can't tell just from this whether it does use C# 2.0 features
<jussi01> ajmitch: what do you need?
<jussi01> netsplit!!
<pygi> hehe
<jussi01> ajmitch: source is here http://www.ifolder.com/index.php/Download
<ajmitch> sigh, why do I let myself get sucked into these things
<jussi01> me hugs ajmitch
<jussi01> gah, stupid /
<geser> ajmitch: because you are a nice person?
<ajmitch> geser: I'm not, you should know that
<pygi> geser, you just stated the wrong phrase!
<jussi01> lol
<TheMuso> ajmitch: What have you been sucked into?
<jussi01> TheMuso: helping me...
<ajmitch> helping get ifolder to compile
<TheMuso> Ah.
<mok0> ifolder... we were looking at it last night. It's a bitch
<ajmitch> which is a hopeless task, most days
<jussi01> mok0: I managed to get that dep to build
<mok0> jussi01: wow
<jussi01> just trying to get i folder to work....
<mok0> :-D
<jussi01> mok0: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27598/
<mok0> you mean, after all that hard work, it doesn't run ;-)
<jussi01> mok0: no, it doesnt build
<jussi01> yet
<ajmitch> of course you can't distribute simias :)
<mok0> jussi01: not knowing 1 bit about C#, it's hard to see what's going on
<ajmitch> although COPYING states GPL, there are source files which state otherwise
<mok0> jussi01: but looks like pretty sloppy programming with all those errmsgs
<ajmitch> ugh, can't even get that far compiling simias on amd64
<ajmitch> ../../../external/flaim/include/flaim.h:1247: error: operator new takes type size_t (long unsigned int) as first parameter
<mok0> ajmitch: that's the kind of stuff you always meet when porting stuff to amd64
<jussi01> ajmitch: och
<ajmitch> one doesn't expect it of quality novell software
<mok0> ajmitch: You said it
<jussi01> lol
<ajmitch> though "quality novell software" seems like an oxymoron some days
<jussi01> ehheheehhehe
<mok0> this is inferior of most free software projects
<mok0> jussi01: you'll just have to patch it up. A big project, though.
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> don't  bother
* jussi01 cries...
<ajmitch> ifolder isn't that special anyway
<mok0> sounds pretty cool, /me thinks
<mok0> any alternatives using std. tools? rsync?
<jussi01> ajmitch: can you recommend some thing else, cross OS, that allows me to directly share a file at a half decent speed?
* ajmitch doesn't know, sorry
<jussi01> :(
<mok0> rsync is usable, but doesn't have a pretty interface
<jussi01> well if someone does, please let me know!
<jussi01> mok0: it needs a pretty interface for my non-nerdy friends
<mok0> apparently Suse succeded in packing it
<pygi> jussi01, it hasit
<pygi> it has it*
<pygi> forgot who, but some of ubuntu folks were working on it
<mok0> jussi01: maybe you should take a look at their .spec file to figure out what they did
<jussi01> pygi: can it be used in winblows though?
<pygi> jussi01, python & pygtk ... so why not?
<pygi> (if we're talking rsync interface;P)
* jussi01 knows nothing about rpms...
<ajmitch> is unison crossplatform?
<ajmitch> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/
<ajmitch> looks to be
<mok0> unison looks cool
<jussi01> it does... :D
<mok0> there is a debian package for unison...
<jussi01> mok0: where?
<jussi01> !netsplit
<ubotu> netsplit is when two IRC servers of the same network (like Freenode) disconnect from each other, so users on one server stop seeing users on the other. If this is happening now, just relax and enjoy the show. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
<jussi01> :P
<mok0> google is your friend
<mok0> I read it on unison's webpage
<ajmitch> or you just aptitude install unison
<mok0> gotta go, see you later
<jussi01> heheh
<jussi01> later mok0
<dholbach> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> dholbach: You're welcome.
<elmargol> I have a package that uses .install files to say wich files are included. how can I exclude a file?
<elmargol> The package uses wildcards /usr/lib/packagename*.so
<dholbach> elmargol: either you remove it in the binary-install target from debian/tmp/usr/lib/ or you make the .install files explicit
<white> anyone here using 915resolution?
<white> Fujitsu: *hint* :)
* minghua used to
<minghua> but 915resolution is no longer needed with the new intel driver
<white> yeah well ...
<white> minghua: time to test the package here? http://developer.skolelinux.no/~white/debs/915resolution/
<white> you might have to rebuild it
<white> it is built under a sid environment
<minghua> white: I use sid.  But what for?
<siretart> nixternal: congrats!
<white> minghua: to test the package?
<minghua> white: if I already use the new intel driver, does 915resolution have any effects?
<white> nah, but you might want to deinstall the new driver and check with 915resolution ;)
<white> siretart: hi :) thanks for signing fuddl's key :)
<minghua> white: Err... maybe later, I don't have my laptop at hand anyway.
<siretart> white: hi, and sure! :)
<white> anyone else?
<siretart> white: in fact, I already signed him ages ago, but he seem to have forgotten to upload that signature that time
<white> hehe
<ajmitch> hi siretart, white 
* siretart waves to ajmitch 
<siretart> ajmitch: how are you?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<siretart> returned save home from debconf7. yay :)
<ajmitch> excellent, how was it?
<siretart> just installed tribe-7 on my new X60s. compiz's running fine here. double-yay :)
<siretart> debconf7 was great. really. met lots of interesting people
<Ash-Fox> I quite like debconf1.5.13 :(
<white> ajmitch: hi :)
<white> ajmitch: what do you think about applying for debconf8? :)
<white> i might give it a go
<ajmitch> white: to talk?
* ajmitch would love to go, but most likely won't
<white> well to have a great time i thought :)
<white> and yeah we will also find a topic to talk about, if that is desired
<ajmitch> though it's not as far next year :)
<white> ajmitch: think about it, you could visit me first in melbourne and then we could fly to Argentinia :)
* ajmitch would have time to learn spanish this time round :)
<white> how long do you fly from melbourne to Argentinia?
<ajmitch> about 12 hours or more
<ajmitch> flatmate is from chile, he ended up flying to NZ from .ar
<white> ah well nothing compared to the trip from Germany to Australia :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> or NZ->spain->NZ within a couple of weeks
<white> . o O(which reminds me that I will fly back to Australia in 1,5 weeks)
<ajmitch> oh, you're not back in melbourne yet?
<white> nope, right now I am on holidays here in Germany
* ajmitch had a friend there suggesting I apply for work at the company he works for
<white> ajmitch: yeah it is about time that you come to Melbourne ;)
<ajmitch> yeah, I haven't been there for nearly a year now
<white> on the other hand I might want to travel a bit in Australia, so is it worth to see the area you are living?
<ajmitch> going to visit NZ?
<white> oh, i always forget that you are living in NZ
<ajmitch> heh
<white> well it is somewhere on my todo list (depending on the time and the money)
<ajmitch> NZ is much closer than Argentina
<white> :)
<white> Argentina might be sponsored though (which is the only way I could get there :) )
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> only way I could get there, too
<white> hmm i have to check when we have to apply though
* ajmitch would love to get out of NZ for a change :)
<ajmitch> mmm, sounds like a nice place for debconf8
<white> jip :)
<white> we should really keep an eye on it, but I somehow need to know soon, if I get sponsoring.
<white> otherwise i need to book flights for Germany and other things :(
<ajmitch> yeah, plus there's other stuff in .au in mid-july which i hope to go to, would need time off work for both
<ajmitch> maybe a 3-4 week holiday for them :)
<ajmitch> U$S 14 in rooms of four people (U$S 15.5 in a triple, U$S 17 in a double).
<ajmitch> cheap accomodation :)
<DktrKranz> \sh, hey!
<\sh> moins DktrKranz 
<DktrKranz> long time, how are you?
<\sh> well, doing some kernel work for the company....dealing with opensuses build service etc. 
<DktrKranz> i read at it
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'm happy you're still around :)
<ajmitch> ok, sleep time, night all
<jussi01> night ajmitch
<white> good night
<DktrKranz> could you please take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757 ? thank you
<afflux> anyone available for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5762 ? thanks in advance...
<pygi> nixternal, congrats
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<xxxxx1> hi all!
<gnomefreak> what package holds debuild?
<StevenK> devscripts
<gnomefreak> hmmmmm thought i had that already
<gnomefreak> ah ty
* Hobbsee waves
* ScottK waves back.
<Hobbsee> :)
<xxxxx1> hello Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hiya
<mruiz> hi all
* Fujitsu walks in.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
<gnomefreak> a debdiff is concidered a patch right?
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Yes.
* gnomefreak thinks yes
<gnomefreak> ok cool ty
<ScottK> shawarma: ping.
* ScottK diffed the Edgy/Feisty clamsmtp postinsts and the only difference between them that causes exit 2 and looked susipicious to me was the newaliases thing I fixed.  Am still interested if you see something else.
<ScottK> shawarma: ^^
<ScottK> shawarma: The tricky part being I've seen that bug on a machine that has newaliases (just checked) so you must be right that it's something else.
<imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/index.php/2007/06/28/google-desktop-for-ubuntu/
<imbrandon> gtk front for slocate? hehe
<shawarma> ScottK: I told you about the adduser call, no?
<ScottK> You mentioned it.  I'll go look again.  I'd forgotten.
* ScottK gets more coffee first.
<Ash-Fox> imbrandon, the echo line should be, sudo bash -c "echo deb http://dl.google.com/linux/deb/ stable non-free >> /etc/apt/sources.list"
<imbrandon> Ash-Fox, whoops your right, not enough caffeine yet
<imbrandon> thanks
<Ash-Fox> No problem ;)
<Ash-Fox> Wow, Google desktop managed to get my laptop upto 64c
<Ash-Fox> It only manages 60c when running Second life
<ScottK> shawarma: I think I got it.  The adduser bit tries to set home dir to /var/spool/clamsmtp and it doesn't exist yet.  That is clearly wrong, but I'm not sure how that is going to relate to an upgrade.  More looking around ...
<shawarma> ScottK: The reason I suspect that command line is just the "exit 2" or whatever it says. The bug report explicitly said that the postinst script returned 2.
<ScottK> Right.  I think that makes sense.  
<ScottK> Non-existant home directory is the only error I get when I run it in a shell, so I'll go about fixing that and cross my fingers.
<TheMuso> Whats the name of the firefox 3 package?
<Hobbsee> gran-pariso or something
<TheMuso> ok
<RainCT> Hobbsee: is it in the repos? :o
<StevenK> RainCT: It is, actually
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> if it built
<RainCT> but in Gutsy :(
<StevenK> Firefox 3 is firefox-granparadiso
<TheMuso> StevenK: yeah I was able to track it down from what Hobbsee said.
<ShinyMonster> bah.  i knew it was close
<TheMuso> Ok. Who needs a package reviewed/
<RainCT> I need help correcting one :p
<TheMuso> RainCT: Got an URL for me?
<RainCT> let me upload
<TheMuso> RainCT: Ok.
<ScottK> If the postinst creates a user, then the postrm script should delete it, right?
<StevenK> ... Debatable
<ScottK> How about if the option is purge?
<StevenK> Still debatable :-P
<StevenK> What does Policy say?
* ScottK hasn't looked - was hoping for the easy way out.  
* ScottK will look.
* minghua remember reading something about this on a certain list recently
<afflux> TheMuso: me ;) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5762
<TheMuso> afflux: Ok.
<ScottK> minghua: Do you have a link to the archive perhaps?
* TheMuso will do one, then he is hitting the sack.
<LaserJock> minghua: hi again
<afflux> thank you
<minghua> ScottK: I don't even remember which list :-(
<minghua> sorry
<ScottK> OK.
<minghua> hi there LaserJock
<TheMuso> afflux: Please ensure to run lintian/linda on your source packages, as well as built debs.
<LaserJock> minghua: ok, so I'm going to remove the list as a team contact for MOTU Science
<RainCT> TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5802
<LaserJock> minghua: and let the bugmail go directly to members
<TheMuso> RainCT: I'll see how I go. Am feeling a little tired, so I may have to leave it till tomorrow.
<minghua> LaserJock: have a time to write an announcement?  need any help?
<afflux> TheMuso: do you mean these lintian errors? http://paste.stgraber.org/1919
<afflux> TheMuso: some told me I shouldn't worry about the second one. What to do with binary-arch if it's not needed?
<TheMuso> afflux: I have put one up on revu which is from the source package.
<TheMuso> afflux: Just put it in there.
<afflux> okay, thank you
<ScottK> StevenK: Policy manual is VERY silent on the issue.  The only thing I could find was debian bug #291177.
<ubotu> Debian bug 291177 in debian-policy "[PROPOSAL]  Policy for user/groups creation/removal in package maintainer scripts" [Wishlist,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/291177
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<StevenK> Hum.
<LaserJock> minghua: I'll write something up. I want to give the ~motu-science team a little shake ;-)
<minghua> yeah, things are rather dormant right now
<TheMuso> RainCT: Sorry, I'll have to look tomorrow. Its just about midnight here, and I would like to get some sleep.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<RainCT> TheMuso: ok, good night
<RainCT> Well, can then someone else help me with this please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5802 . (It's just avoid that a file gets installed, but I don't know how to do it, info at the bottom)
<ScottK> StevenK: It seems to me that if one is purging one ought to leave the system as it was found prior to installing the package, but there's no policy and lack of purging the user isn't the cause of the bug I'm hunting, so I guess I'll leave it.
<minghua> ScottK: there are debates about what purging really means, and I remember "deleting the sql database or not when purging sql" is one of them
<StevenK> ScottK: Sounds sensible.
<ScottK> Well if the sql database was installed by the package when it was installed, then that would make sense.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<minghua> I don't know about sql databases, let's take another example
<Adri2000> StevenK: can I merge devscripts? (you're the last uploader)
<minghua> when installing cvs, it creates /var/lib/cvs/ (or something similar) as the repo
<StevenK> Adri2000: I was waiting for tribe 2 to be released. I have an upload ready.
<minghua> then people can add stuff in the repo
<minghua> so when I purge cvs later, should it "rm -r /var/lib/cvs"?
<ScottK> minghua: OK.  I can see that one being tricky.
<Adri2000> StevenK: ah. I have at least 2 changes two do. I'll give you a diff
<StevenK> Adri2000: Great, I'll happily integrate them.
<LaserJock> that reminds me, I have a lintian merge waiting ;-)
<Adri2000> StevenK: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/requestsync.diff
<Adri2000> * requestsync: - Don't confirm the bug when -s (sponsorship) is passed - Giving base version as a third argument works again, thanks Kjell Braden (LP: #119313)
<LaserJock> etank: ping
<nixternal> imbrandon: do you like the Google desktop thing? I am somewhat interested in trying it out.
<LaserJock> I'm avoiding it
<LaserJock> because I'm sure if I install it then the complete Google takeover of my life will be complete
<LaserJock> I wear their t-shirts, use their pens .. *sigh* ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock, haha me too
<norsetto> G'day, I have the usual, very interesting (yawn), question about licenses .......
<imbrandon> nixternal, i havent used it much yes
<imbrandon> yet*
<nixternal> hehe
<imbrandon> LaserJock, i have a google t on today lol
* LaserJock ^5s imbrandon 
<nixternal> it looks like it could be somewhat useful, but then again, superkaramba looks useful at time :)
<norsetto> Can we package an application licensed with the EPL (under multiverse I guess)?
<LaserJock> norsetto: got a link for EPL?
<man-di_> norsetto: why not in univserse?
<norsetto> Got this one http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html which says its not compatible with GPL
<man-di_> norsetto: Eclipse is already in universe and is licensed under EPL
<man-di_> norsetto: thats correct, its not GPL compatibles, but that doesnt meant its non-free
<norsetto> OK, so the answer is that we can ... good :)
<man-di_> norsetto: it depends on your usage of the app
<man-di_> norsetto: when you explicitely link GPL code you are lost
<man-di_> thats not allowed
<norsetto> Do we need to state something, anything, particular in Debian/copyright?
<man-di_> norsetto: just state the EPL
<norsetto> the question is not about usage, but packaging. If we can make a package for an EPL licensed application, and distribute it (in universe)
<man-di_> norsetto: its your job to make sure you are allowed to use all dependecies you need
<mruiz> hi all
<man-di_> norsetto: I meant packaging
<man-di_> norsetto: usage is a another case
<etank> LaserJock: whats up
<norsetto> OK, so if the application requires GPL dependancies we can't package it !?
<ScottK> norsetto: Dependencies are probably OK.  It's build-deps that are likely problematic.  You can't link to GPL code.
<man-di_> norsetto: right
<man-di_> ScottK: nope
<ScottK> No?
<man-di_> ScottK: build-depends and depens are important for distribution
<etank> nixternal: the Goggle Desktop thingy is kinda cool
<ScottK> man-di_: OK, but linking is the key issue, right?
<man-di_> ScottK: linking and distributing
<ScottK> OK.
<norsetto> which means in any case we can only distribute binaries
<man-di_> you are not allowed to distribute a combined work of GPL and EPL parts
<man-di_> ScottK: users can use it, its up to them, but you may not distribute it this way
<nixternal> I might have to check it out
<ScottK> In this clamsmtp postinst I'm debugging the maintainer changed grep clamav>/dev/null to grep -q clamav>/dev/null.  It looks to me like he should have ditched >/dev/null, but leaving it is harmless.  Any opinions?
<ScottK> nixternal: Definitely, given your love of proprietary systems.
<nixternal> hey now, watch it!
<nixternal> :p
<nixternal> it is funny, because people here in Chicago get a kick out of the !nixternal thing, because they see me as this big anti-proprietary guy
<nixternal> my clients, if they haven't switched to Linux, they have been dropped...and most have switched and I have yet to get one major trouble ticket from any of them yet
<ScottK> Of course it's funny in Chicago.
<nixternal> heh
<nixternal> hrmm, it seems the latest netbeans patch is evil
<mruiz> I got this error while I was building a package in pbuilder: "configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is required for intltool". 
<mruiz> I suppose that libxml-parser-perl must be added as Build-depends. Any idea?
<ScottK> mruiz: Sounds reasonable.
<imbrandon> err ajmitch round?
<Hobbsee> he'll be asleep
<nixternal> why hasn't the package I uploaded yesterday shown up at all anywhere? leads me to believe I did something incorrect kind of
<ScottK> StevenK: It is looking to me like if I'm using gpg-agent/pinentry debuild can't cope (it says user cancelled signing), but if I use debsign or dpkg-buildpackage it all works fine.  Even though it's Perl, I looked at the debuild source anyway (and then looked away to preserve my sanity).  Are you familiar enough with debuild to know if there is a likely place to focus on?
<ScottK> nixternal: Which package?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: he's gone to bed
<nixternal> nautilus-wallpaper
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks.  Maybe he'll read the scrollback.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds like your stuff is botched - debsign copes fine with pinentry-qt
<nixternal> is it because it is new and the archive admis have to look it over?
<Hobbsee> use with -k<keyid>
<Hobbsee> nixternal: what's the question, sorry?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  Debsign is fine, it's just debuild.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: debuild calls debsign.
<nixternal> just don't see the package I uploaded yesterday yet..it is new
<Hobbsee> you can use -k<keyid> with debuild too
<ScottK> Understand.  Yes.  That also fails.
<Hobbsee> nixternal: is it in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?batch=500 ?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: odd.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: sounds like a setup problem
<ScottK> nixternal: I see it in the NEW queue
<nixternal> I do too...OK
<nixternal> I overlooked it before
<ScottK> That's where it should be.
<LaserJock> minghua: list situation seem reasonable to you?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK, but except for adding use-agent to gpg.conf, I haven't changed any setups related to gpg or to debuild.
<minghua> LaserJock: sure, I prefer official list.  how many subscribers have you migrated?
<LaserJock> 30
<minghua> not bad, quite a small number IMHO
<LaserJock> well, I sent invitations to 30, got 3-4 done already
<LaserJock> it is, I think a lot because of all the bugmail we got
<LaserJock> who wants to wade through all that crap ;-)
<nixternal> LaserJock: you do of course
<minghua> I took the opportunity  to unify the addresses I use to subscribe lists
<LaserJock> well sure, but already get so much that 20 more/day isn't too much ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: I at least read all the titles of the bugmails :-)
<LaserJock> the reason I had the bugmail sent to the list to start with was because it was virtually impossible to sort before
<minghua> yeah, I remember those days
<LaserJock> but now that I got kiko to add in a email header and a footer to the bugmails it *should* be easy to sort for everyone
<Hobbsee> ScottK: hrm.  did you have the link to which agent it was?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: is the contents of ~/.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf...
<Hobbsee> pinentry-program /usr/bin/pinentry-qt
<Hobbsee> no-grab
<Hobbsee> default-cache-ttl 600
<Hobbsee> ?
<ScottK> I do not have all that as I'm trying to find the minumum stuff needed for S/MIME.  Looking at the phrase "no-grab" I think I just added some things to the list of "Minimum".
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: that's part of the gpg agent config - to say *which* agent you want touse
<ScottK> Right.  I only have pinentry-qt installed and it was found without that, but I expect I'll need to add it.  Back in a sec.
<Hobbsee> :)
<jussi01> hei all, with cdbs, do i add DEB_SRCDIR = $(CURDIR)/src before or after the "include" bits ?
<Hobbsee> after, i think
<jussi01> ok, thanks :)
<ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: Still no luck with debuild.
<ScottK-laptop> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27640/
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: that's bizarre!
<ScottK-laptop> Agreed.
<ScottK-laptop> Before I go start leaning on people to use agent by default, I want to make sure it doesn't cause problems.
<Hobbsee> indeed.
* ScottK-laptop chooses to blame debuild here.
* ScottK-laptop would really like it if StevenK were awake so we could discuss it.
<jussi01> hmmm, can i change cdbs at all to use ./config instead of ./configure ?
<jussi01> or do i need to use debhelper?
<Hobbsee> ScottK-laptop: well, i could call him.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's probably not that urgent.  
* ScottK doesn't want an angry StevenK here to discuss a potentially imaginary debuild problem.
<Hobbsee> but i cant guarentee that a) he'd answer.  b) he would be impressed or c) that his wife would be impressed
* LaserJock crosses his fingers as he hits Enter on his first Main upload
* ScottK expects his wife wouldn't appreciate femail voices on the phone for him in the middle of the night.
<jussi01> good luck LaserJock
<jussi01> :)
<jussi01> lol ScottK
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> ScottK: his wife should recognise who i am...but yeah.  i wouldnt risk it.
<Hobbsee> yay, LaserJock!
<ScottK> Reminds me of when I was growing up there was a man with the same first and last name as my father who was apparently a frequent love 'em and leave 'em type.  Also had a unlisted phone number.  So when girls would try to find him, they'd sometimes call my Dad.  My Mom did NOT appreciate him getting calls from cute young things in the middle of the night even though she knew they had the wrong person.
<LaserJock> ScottK: nah, she'd be like "the Ubuntu freaks *again* ?"
<Hobbsee> haha
<ScottK> It also turned out that Gary Kitterman had a father with the same first name as my Grandfather.  It wasn't funny the day we got a call saying that Don Kitterman (my Grandfather's name) had died.
<ScottK> Really odd since Kitterman is a very rare name.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Does dpkg-buildpackage call debsign too?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> debuild is only a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackag
<Hobbsee> e
<LaserJock> wow, it works
<Hobbsee> :D
<ScottK> OK.  Then I'll fiddle with this and see if I can replicate it somehow...
<LaserJock> if I remember right, debuild = dpkg-buildpackage -r fakeroot + lintian
<LaserJock> well, my first upload was a sponsorship
<LaserJock> so I could blame it on somebody else if it killed everybodies computer
<Hobbsee> hehe
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can someone check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 ) please?
* jussi01 pokes people about his question...
* shawarma hugs lionel for uploading jabberd2
<jussi01> [19:28]  <jussi01> hmmm, can i change cdbs at all to use ./config instead of ./configure ?
<jussi01> [19:28]  <jussi01> or do i need to use debhelper?
<azeem> jussi01: there's a cdbs variable you can override I think
<Toadstool> jussi01: DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/config
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody
<jussi01> thanks Toadstool. 
<Toadstool> jussi01: CDBS doc: grep -rin $(random_word) /usr/share/cdbs/* :)
<jussi01> Toadstool: ?
<Toadstool> nevermind
<jussi01> hehe..
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can a MOTU please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
<jussi01> Toadstool: got to remember im quite new...
<jussi01> :)
<ivoks> i'm looking at all this 'index search tools'
<ivoks> they all do scheduled indexing
<ivoks> why? linux has inotify; it is trivial to create tool which would look at dir and have a record of a file which is created at that moment
<ivoks> pyinotify+sqlite and that's it
<ivoks> no need for periodic indexing
<ivoks> any toughts?
<Toadstool> ivoks: Beagle uses inotify if it is available, afaik
<ivoks> it does?
<ivoks> that's great then
<Toadstool> http://beagle-project.org/Inotify_Kernel
* ivoks hides :)
<Toadstool> heh
<ivoks> i really tought i have brilliant idea :)
* jussi01 smack things going wrong... why cant something go right?
<LaserJock> just so everybody know, I *hate* UUIDs
<jussi01> lol
<Toadstool> who doesn't?
<ivoks> UUIDs are soooooo great, LaserJock be quiet :)
<LaserJock> I made a disasterous mistake and let Fedora7 format my swap partition
<LaserJock> and now I can't for the life of me get it back
<LaserJock> I somehow don't have the right recipe
<jussi01> lol
* jussi01 hands LaserJock a bigger hammer...
<ivoks> LaserJock: vol_id <partition>?
<tsmithe> hello all
<jussi01> tsmithe: !
<tsmithe> hi jussi01 
<LaserJock> ivoks: yes I do that, but it seems to change every time I reboot
<ivoks> that happend to me once
<LaserJock> so I can get it to work, but then when I reboot it's toast again
<ivoks> initrd
<LaserJock> it's really annoying because it's on my laptop so I can't hibernate
<LaserJock> ohhh, do I need to recreate my initrd?
<ivoks> did you fix initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume?
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think so
<ivoks> check it out :)
<ivoks> also, /etc/blkid.tab - but i this one is automaticaly generated
<ivoks> s/i/i think/
<LaserJock> hmm, I think the conf.d/resume is the key
<LaserJock> I remember fixing this once before
<ScottK-laptop> Hobbsee: I'm ready to blame debuild.  Debuild calls debsign, but dpkg-buildpackage doesn't.  It calls gnupg directly.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<Hobbsee> i dont remember which my scripts use - i think dpkg-buildpackage
* ScottK-laptop will file a bug...
<jussi01> hmmm, can someone tell me where im going wrong? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27646/ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27649/
<Hobbsee> jussi01: i'd try s/ DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(DEB_SRCDIR)/config/ DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(DEB_SRCDIR)/config
<jussi01> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> no problem
<Toadstool> jussi01: why do you override DEB_SRCDIR?
<Toadstool> jussi01: it screws up your DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT override since it makes it expand to DEB_CONFIGURE_SCRIPT = $(CURDIR)/$(CURDIR)/src
<Toadstool> +/config
<jussi01> Toadstool: oh... well i need to caues the source is in /src
* ScottK-laptop won't file a bug.  Just re-write one.  It's a known issue: Bug #78165
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
<Toadstool> jussi01: then use DEB_SRCDIR = src, I'd say
<jussi01> Toadstool: ok, i took that line from the cdbs docs...
<imbrandon> drive by irc spam ( hey i dont do it often ) , digg me up please http://digg.com/linux_unix/NATIVE_Google_Desktop_for_Ubuntu_with_Debs_and_Screenshot
<Treenaks> imbrandon: I still don't like the adding of a key through wget/http ;)
<mruiz> hi all
<mruiz> I was building a package in pbuilder and I had problems while patches were applying: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27650/ 
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can a MOTU please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
<ScottK> mruiz: That means the patch wouldn't apply.  You need to either fix it or update it.
<mruiz> ScottK, I did it... my new patch (updated to use it with new upstream version) : http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27651/
<ScottK> StevenK: If you are looking at updating devscripts, please have a look at Bug #78165 when you do....
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent or gpg-agent" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
<vijay2000> Hi all can anyody solve this error for me plz http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27652/
* ScottK looks at bug: #122863 and hopes LaserJock's first upload wasn't for texlive....
<ScottK> err Bug #122863 even
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122863 in texlive-bin "package texlive-base-bin 2007-11 failed to install/upgrade: post-installation script spawns thousands of processes" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122863
<vijay2000> Hi all can anyody solve this error for me plz http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27652/
<ivoks> source of pam-pgsql should depend on libpq-dev
<ivoks> not postgresql-dev
<ivoks> as it is in feisty
<vijay2000> so should i replace postgresql-dev with libpq-dev in the build-depends
<ScottK> You can use libpq-dev | postgresql-dev if you are worried about backporting the package.
<vijay2000> ok
<ivoks> right
<vijay2000> but i already added libpq-dev along with postgresql-dev 
<ivoks> not both
<vijay2000> Build-Depends: libpam0g-dev, postgresql-dev, debhelper (>= 4.0), libmhash-dev,libpq-dev
<vijay2000> oh ok 
<ivoks> both can't work, since there is no postgresql-dev
<ScottK> The "|" is the key.
<ivoks> | means this or that
<vijay2000> oh i didnt get that 
<ivoks> low battery - bye :)
<ScottK> Bye ivoks
<vijay2000> ivoks: bye and thanks
<geser> vijay2000: you can replace postgresql-dev with libpq-dev as postgresql-dev is since breezy a transitional package
<mruiz> ScottK, I updated the patch because the old one didn't work :-(
<ScottK> mruiz: What patching system does the package use?
<jussi01> hmmm, if its looking for qmake, which package do i need? qt3-dev-tools?
<vijay2000> hi all the new source code i downloaded for pgsql is libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.bz2 .now this is not getting uploaded when i use dput 
<vijay2000> can i rename the file to libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz
<zul> mmmm...i love crack aka ubuntuforums
<geser> vijay2000: you have to bunzip2 and gzip it
<vijay2000> can u give me the syntax ?
<minghua> !info libpam-pgsql gutsy
<SlimG2> I've buildt my own repos but are having problem when aptitude installing from it, It fails to fetch one specific .deb complaining about "wrong size", I've checked that the .deb filesize and the "Size: <filesize>" in the "Packages" file match, what could be wrong?
<ubotu> libpam-pgsql: PAM module to authenticate using a PostgreSQL database. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.5.2-9ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 15 kB, installed size 80 kB
<geser> vijay2000: bunzip2 libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.bz2 && gzip libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar
<geser> renaming doesn't work as a tar.bz2 is not a tar.gz
<vijay2000> i'm trying to upgrade libpam-pgsql from 0.5.2-9 to 0.6.3
<mruiz> ScottK, no patching system: is only one patch... diff -Nurp old new > 01.diff and then I moved it to debian/patches
<ScottK> mruiz: Then you need a patching system to install the patch.
<mruiz> ScottK, another question: is the same : foo.patch and foo.diff ?
<ScottK> In general terms yes.
<ScottK> If you look in the MOTU section of the wiki there is a good MOTU School session on patching systems.  I'd suggest you go have a look.
<mruiz> I'm reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<jussi01> *cough* help? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27654/ 
<DktrKranz> jussi01, try with libqt4-dev
<DktrKranz> Build-Depends
<mruiz> ScottK, ... the package is using CDBS, then I have to using cdbs-edit-patch...
<LaserJock> nixternal: hehe, so I'm guessing you tried Google Desktop ;-)
<jussi01> DktrKranz: thanks
<nixternal> yup. it is nice and not-so-nice at the same time
<DktrKranz> jussi01, I'm not a KDE expert, but shouldn't use qt4?
<ScottK> mruiz: Yes
<DktrKranz> I see you use qt3
<jussi01> DktrKranz: maybe, what package should I have?
<DktrKranz> try with libqt4-dev
<DktrKranz> if you see more errors
<DktrKranz> you can count on packages.ubuntu.com
<DktrKranz> just use "Search the contents of packages" :)
<DktrKranz> anyone to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5757?
<vijay2000> hi 
<vijay2000> i have a file libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz and the upstream version file is pam-pgsql_0.6.3-0ubuntu1.tar.gz. now i am not getting a.diff file being generated
<vijay2000> is it because one file is of the filename libpam and the other is of the name pam 
<RainCT> vijay2000: you have to uncompress them to create the diff
<vijay2000> i dont get you 
<jussi01> DktrKranz: better... but still... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27655/
<RainCT> vijay2000: how are you trying to create the diff?
<DktrKranz> jussi01, I fear you should use qt3
<vijay2000> well it will get created when you do a debuild which didnt get created in this case 
<geser> vijay2000: mv libpam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz pam-pgsql_0.6.3.orig.tar.gz
<DktrKranz> jussi01, restore previous build-deps and add libqt3-headers
<geser> the source pacakge name is pam-pgsql
<vijay2000> i just have to rename it 
<vijay2000> got it 
<tobiasschulz> MOTUs: can somebody please check jeliza ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5791 )?
<RainCT> is the Makefile.in file generated on ./configure or does it contain information to create the Makefile?
<Toadstool> it is used by ./configure to generate Makefile
<RainCT> ok thanks
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> Hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<LaserJock> sistpoty!!!
<sistpoty> hi LaserJock
<jussi01> DktrKranz: Im getting the same errors a the first time. any other ideas?
<DktrKranz> jussi01, sorry but my knowledge of KDE is very limited :(
<DktrKranz> I hoped it could go
<jussi01> DktrKranz: yeah. fair enough. I expect im just missing something somewhere. just got to figure out what...
<LaserJock> ah man, can't the make the GPL *shorter* ?
<LaserJock> I hate having to read these things, it always makes me feel like I'm missing something
<DktrKranz> jussi01, try searching for packages which include such headers
<LaserJock> if the license is smarter than I am I get a little nervious :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what's up?
<LaserJock> trying to read GPLv3
<LaserJock> your blog post sent me down a rabbit trail
<LaserJock> I wanted a nice diff so I can see just what they are changing
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, IIRC drafts contains insertionss and deletions from older versions
<LaserJock> overall I think this thing is way to big
<LaserJock> I suppose legally they've got a lot of work to do
<zul> LaserJock: do you want a gplv3 for dummies with amusing cartoons?
<LaserJock> but how are people supposed to reasonably know what it all means
<LaserJock> if I release code under a license I want to be darn sure I know what it means
<LaserJock> and I kinda feel like GPL is sort of beyond that point
<LaserJock> zul: yes
<LaserJock> actually, I like the way Creative Commons does it
<LaserJock> where they have like little paragraph blocks that give you the plain english version
<LaserJock> then you click on the link to get the full legalese
<yosch> LaserJock: they also have visual representations of the working model of the license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/
<yosch> which is quite nice
<LaserJock> yeah, exactly
<RainCT> yeah! got the damn package validating :)
<yosch> LaserJock: it's been done for other licenses too: http://scripts.sil.org/OFL&_sc=1#9ccf5052
<yosch> but it only represent the overall model, it cannot (should not) replace the legalese
<RainCT> I've to do some changes on Makefile.am, Makefile.in and configure. what do you recommend me, dpatch?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think it would've been nice if they had creative-commons-like summaries
<LaserJock> I look at the GPLv3 and I think to myself "OK, now what does any of this mean for me", "What are the implications?"
* RainCT agrees
<sacater> hey me and a friend are trying to make a new version of ubuntu (senubuntu, http://launchpad.net/senubuntu), can we get a repo space or something for packages
* gnomefreak might be going nuts but doesnt libpng12-dev support APNG?
<luisbg> sacater, what's senubuntu about?
<peanutb> Senior Ubuntu
<peanutb> (ubuntu for Seniors)
<LaserJock> sacater: according to the new Canonical trademark policy they don't want you using that naming scheme
<RainCT> luisbg: "    This project is a form of Ubuntu which is aimed to help those who are interested in Linux but may have some sort of impairment"
<LaserJock> sacater: rather Ubuntu <insert whatever> Remix
<LaserJock> sacater: and you would have to talk Launchpad folks, right now I don't think you can get repo space
<sacater> eeep
<sacater> eeeep
<sacater> then what can we call it
<LaserJock> I'll leave you to figure that out
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Accessability Remix ?
<sacater> so can we have ubuntu in the name anywhere?
<sacater> Ubuntu Senior Edition?
<sacater> Impaired Edition?
<mok0> Senilubuntu
<_MMA_> sacater: Im sorry man. I gotta ask why? Ill go to PM if you want.
<sacater> go to #sacater
<sacater> mok0: :P
<LaserJock> sacater: please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DraftTrademarkPolicy2007
<LaserJock> sacater: and talk to the accessability team
<sacater> k#
* gnomefreak has to be missing something :(
<sacater> sigh
<sacater> that is a VERY big kick to the nuts
<mok0> sacater: why not create a virtual package that pulls in everything "extra" you want for your edition, and campaign for that, instead of a completely new distro?
<sacater> mok0: like a meta-package
<mok0> I think Ubuntu Christian Edition is ridiculous
<mok0> sacater: yes
<mok0> Next will be Ubuntu Islamic Edition
<mok0> Ubuntu Buddist
<mok0> etc
<jussi01> mok0: why not?
<_MMA_> mok0: Ubuntu Islamic Edition Is coming. As well as "Jewbuntu".
<mok0> I just think it's stupide
<mok0> s/e//
<troy_s> mok0: If it is stupid, the nature of evolution will kill it.  
<troy_s> mok0: No need to get panties in a twist.
<mok0> Yup
<peanutb> did you guys see ubuntu Satanic Edition?
<jussi01> lol
<mok0> Ubuntu Queer
<_MMA_> peanutb: Best distro ever.
<LaserJock> hang on guys
<peanutb> I know. Im running it
<sacater> gothbuntu
<mok0> Pwnbuntu
<LaserJock> let's try to keep it civil
<sacater> LaserJock: i am :P
<AndyP> +1
<mok0> sorry, couldn't resist :-)
<_MMA_> sacater: So are you gonna answer in your channel or continue here?
<jussi01> yeah
<LaserJock> people are free to do what they want with Free software, that's kinda the point
<peanutb> how about a Customized cd with the accessibility packages already installed (by way of the metapackage
<mok0> Like an Ubuntu add-on -- I like that 
<sacater> we dibs it!
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Yes. I just worry about "brain-drain".
<mok0> Isn't that what Canonical call "a remix"?
<LaserJock> _MMA_: I wouldn't really worry about that, tbh
<AndyP> _MMA_: good brains tend to flock to each other
<ajmitch> morning
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Is that a shot at sacater? (kidding)
<LaserJock> I think in *general* we can enourage people to only create derivatives where there seems to be necessity and demand
<RainCT> can build have two targets (like  build: patch build-stamp) ?
<troy_s> AndyP: As do not so good brains.  Wait, I mean opposites attract... wait... I need another cliche.
<AndyP> ajmitch: morning
<LaserJock> RainCT: yes
<peanutb> so Ubuntu CE is necessary?
<peanutb> and demanded?
<zul> hey ajmitch
<Q-FUNK> any pulseaudio expert here? ;)
<RainCT> LaserJock: thx
<luisbg> lol
<SlimG2> !ask | Q-FUNK
<ubotu> Q-FUNK: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<LaserJock> peanutb: yes it is
<LaserJock> at least in enough supply to make lots of people use it
<Q-FUNK> very well.  how do I stop PA from producing choppy sound?  it blurps all the time while playing ogg's from rhythmbox
<peanutb> then how is the supply of old people much different?
<LaserJock> well, that's different
<LaserJock> Ubuntu's default installtion has accessibility software in it
<_MMA_> Q-FUNK: crimsun is a guy to ask if he's not too busy. (which is often the case)
<peanutb> LaserJock, such as?
<sacater> LaserJock: we dont think it has enough
<Q-FUNK> _MMA_: ah, he does pa too? I knew about alsa, but not pa.
<LaserJock> sacater: then work on it
<LaserJock> peanutb: such as what? accesibilty software?
<sacater> LaserJock: that is precisely what we want to do!
<LaserJock> sacater: but that doesn't help Ubuntu as a whole
<peanutb> LaserJock, OSK
<peanutb> Magnifier
<sacater> LaserJock: it can help the elderly or impaired
<troy_s> sacater your needs would be better met working with the most incredible Henrik Omma than trying to do work alone.
<LaserJock> why not work with the accesibilty team to make Ubuntu work for those people?
<troy_s> sacater: He has not only the ears and eyes of Canonical, but he also is perhaps one of the most industrious folks I have met.
<LaserJock> there are several people within Ubuntu interested in accesibilty
<_MMA_> LaserJock: "sacater: well it seems a little dead IMHO"
<LaserJock> heck, we have several Summer of Code projects for accesibilty
<sacater> whoa
<troy_s> sacater: The problem with Accessibility is that it doesn't come with the wonderful 'glory' of the more mainstream elements, and as such, the team is only as strong as the few dedicated individuals that it currently has to push things forwards.
<sacater> i based that on what peanutb told me :P
<peanutb> I based that on what i saw on the main page.
<ajmitch> accessibility is something that *should* be in the core distro, not just in a specialised version
<troy_s> Well it is.
<peanutb> Yes. But it isint
<LaserJock> sure it is
<peanutb> whats the OSK then?
<peanutb> wheres the magnifier
<LaserJock> it certainly could be better
<LaserJock> but there's definately been work
<sacater> which is what we were aiming to do
<ajmitch> if you feel that it's not good enough, please don't split off into yet another little project
<LaserJock> sacater: no, that is not what you are aiming for
<LaserJock> you are aiming to make a derivative
<LaserJock> and making work that *should* be done in Ubuntu ... not
<LaserJock> if accessibility is *that* important it should be in Ubuntu proper
<sacater> but it isnt...
<AndyP> .e points at the System->Preferences->Accessibility menu... magnifier and OSK seem to be there
<sacater> not in xubuntu it isnt :P
<AndyP> s/./\/m/
* ajmitch sighs
<AndyP> sacater: so get on board, make things better :)
* sacater stands down
* sacater pets peanutb 
<troy_s> sacater: Start by sending email to Henrik and see what you can do.
<LaserJock> if you would care to do your homework, Ubuntu ships 7 apps specificly for accessibilty
<peanutb> 7.04? since when?
<sacater> LaserJock: does it ship dasher, on-screen keyboard (good one), text reader, etc
<troy_s> sacater: Orca yes.
<sacater> Dasher*
<LaserJock> gnome-accessibility-themes gnome-mag gnome-orca onboard brltty brltty-x11 xcursor-themes and espeak
<LaserJock> now, you may have reasons to add/change the list
<_MMA_> sacater: But whats "etc..." Does a couple more apps warrant a remix? Flavor? Whatever..
<LaserJock> but obviously work is being done
<LaserJock> so please try to help existing effort
* sacater closes down senubuntu :(
<sacater> the dream is lost...
<shawarma> sacater: What was it?
<sacater> to make a special accessibility edition for ubuntu
<sacater> senior ubuntu
<sacater> senubuntu
<shawarma> Ah.
<LaserJock> sacater: no, the dream is not lost
<ajmitch> even that name... it just doesn't sound right
<LaserJock> the dream is to make Ubuntu better for people with imparments, right?
<LaserJock> then nothing is lost
<sacater> hmm
<sacater> i s'pose
<LaserJock> rather refocused
<praveen> hi does any one know how to change the logo next to Applications menu in the top panel ?
<_MMA_> praveen: Please see #ubuntu, #ubuntuforums or search the forums.
<praveen> k thnk u
* sacater closes senubuntu
<xxxxx1> bye all
<sacater> peanutb: where are ya
<peanutb> Im trying to call i
<peanutb> U
<_MMA_> sacater: Talk to TheMuso. I know he has done a bit with those packages.
<sacater> peanutb: you arent even online!
<peanutb> on what? MSN?
<sacater> no
<sacater> gizmo
<peanutb> im on right now
<sacater> not according to this thingamy
<peanutb> I just get your voice mail
<sacater> sacater phone home
<sacater> i think..
<RainCT> Hey some MOTU please advocate Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only). (Source and Binary validate with both lintian and linda.)
<AndyP> RainCT: i don't think you need XSBC-Original-Maintainer with a new package, just if you're changing one with a debian revision
<tsmithe> AndyP, i'm pretty sure you do :) unless you're using an @ubuntu.com address for the Maintainer
<tsmithe> also, /me joins the queue for those wanting reviews
<tsmithe> could someone take a look at *ubuntustudio* on revu, please?
<mok0> AndyP: New policy
<AndyP> tsmithe: really? that seems strange... how can there be an original maintainer if it's the first time it's been packaged?
<tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField explains better than i can
<mok0> AndyP: It was mentionen on the ML a couple of weeks ago
<mok0> mentioned
<AndyP> tsmithe: that page seems to hold up my argument...
<mok0> AndyP: The MOTUs require it now
<ScottK> No, Ubuntu requires it now.  It's for Main and Universe both.
<AndyP> "If the Maintainer field contains an ubuntu.com email address, no modifications are made" and "If the Maintainer field is modified, the old value will be saved in a field named XSBC-Original-Maintainer" ... in this case it's a new package so the maintainer field hasn't been modified and there's no "old value" because it's a new packaging
<ScottK> AndyP: You can put yourself in there.
<ScottK> Maintainer MUST be an ubuntu.com (or kubuntu.org) address for an Ubuntu/Kubuntu package.
<AndyP> ScottK: yep it is... ubuntu motu devs in this case... but i just can't understand why you'd add XSBC-Original-Maintainer to a newly packaged package
<tsmithe> just to show that you are the maintainer but you don't have an @ubuntu.com address, if that is the case
<sistpoty> in case you don't have an @ubuntu address, I'd rather use the uploaders field, but that's only my opinion
<ScottK> Because that's not what they were thinking about when they wrote the devscripts updates?
<tsmithe> ScottK, hehe
<AndyP> sistpoty: the uploaders field sounds more logical, yes
<AndyP> but we don't use that
* tsmithe does agree with AndyP, but it's nice to be consistent, and that is the policy now
<AndyP> tsmithe: this isn't in the policy :)
<AndyP> (this = what to do with new packages)
<tsmithe> well, i don't care what noun you use.
<tsmithe> it's part of the regulations for new packages, if you so wish
<AndyP> tsmithe: i mean it's not in those regulations (assuming you're talking about the wiki page mentioned above)
<tsmithe> well, i don't know. the page is unclear. however, it is true you need an @ubuntu address as maintainer, and you can put XSBC-Original-Maintainer if you want to be more visible.
<tsmithe> that's my interpretation, at least
<AndyP> tsmithe: ok, i'll agree with you that it's unclear and end the debate there :)
<tsmithe> :)
<sistpoty> hm... it would be interesting to find out what packages were originally created for ubuntu. however neither the original-maint field nor using uploaders can be used for this
<AndyP> sistpoty: would you need to search for -0ubuntuN revisions?
<sistpoty> AndyP: no, in case an ubuntu package was taken as origin for a then maintained debian package (e.g. glest, though not yet released in debian iirc)
<AndyP> ah i see what you mean
<sistpoty> (also, it would be good to have it somehow indicated in the control file, then it would be much easier to find out=
<LaserJock> I don't see why people would have to use XSBC-Original-Maintainer for packages created in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> shouldn't Uploaders work just fine?
<ScottK> Makes sense to me.
<RainCT> AndyP: are you still looking at it? :)
* jussi01 wonders if there is now someone around with the appropriate knowledge and time to help him... http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27665/
<ajmitch> maybe #kubuntu-devel would know :)
<AndyP> RainCT: just went to get a cup of tea, i'll cast my eye over it again if you want (i'm not a MOTU though)
<jussi01> ajmitch: was that for me? 
<RainCT> AndyP: ah. well, thanks for looking at it
<RainCT> any MOTU around that can look at a package?
<ajmitch> jussi01: yes
<jussi01> ajmitch: thanks :)
<RainCT> can some MOTU please look at Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only)? (Source and Binary validate with both lintian and linda.)
<bigon> hi, is there any revu admin here? I've a package stuck in incoming
<sistpoty> bigon: what package?
<ajmitch> hello sistpoty 
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch
<bigon> sistpoty: telepathy-sofiasip
<sistpoty> bigon: you're in the keyring?
<bigon> sistpoty: well I was, but I didn't upload a package for a while
<sistpoty> bigon: oh, it's a binary package
<sistpoty> bigon: please upload only source packages to revu
<bigon> sistpoty: ark
<bigon> sorry
* ajmitch goes to turn on the killer cron job
<sistpoty> bigon: I've deleted it
<bigon> sistpoty: thanks
<sistpoty> np
<sistpoty> omg ajmitch *g*
<sistpoty> ok, /me is off to bed... 
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<ajmitch> night
<RainCT> good night
<Q-FUNK> what was the trick to make a postinst verbose, to be able to debug it, again?
<persia> ScottLij: Take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<LaserJock> ScottLij: also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is a good read
<geser> Q-FUNK: set -x for bash
* persia seconds Laserjock
<LaserJock> in fact maybe I should go read it now ...
<AndyP> heh
<Q-FUNK> geser: ah yes, that was the one.  thanks!
<Q-FUNK> ogra: found
<Q-FUNK> ogra: it turns out that it has nothing to do with the keyboard.  xserver-xorg just plains hang if there's no monitor to probe via ddc, for some reason, when installing via a chroot.
<Q-FUNK> ogra: putting -x on top of the postinst showed that it actually froze at xresprobe, not quite at keyboard detection.
<jussi01> ok, someone tell me how stupid I am. n o actually dont. but please tell me how with a debelper rules file to reroute the pathe where the sources are to /src
<persia> jussi01: Is there no toplevel makefile, just one in src/?
<jussi01> persia: correct
<geser> can't you do: make -C src thetarget ?
<_MMA_> persia: Can you give a eye to the ubuntustudio* packages?
<persia> _MMA_: Sure, I'll take another look.
<_MMA_> thanx
<jussi01> geser: almost everything is in src, config, make etc
<_MMA_> brb
<geser> jussi01: doesn't cd src and than calling make from the rules files don't work? (make -C src does the same)
* persia recommends cd $(CURDIR)/src in both configure-stamp: and build-stamp: for this.
* jussi01 gives it a go.  :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-29
<persia> Does anyone have an opinion on whether the package contents and the packaging consitute a single work or are considered a collation for licensing purposes?  Is the resulting binary package a "combined work", and if so, must the packaging and upstream licenses be compatible?
<nixternal> man, good question
<nixternal> I think if you look at it, a single binary package that was licensed under a CC license and a package that is GPL, would make it a combined work I think
<nixternal> then again, that legal mumbo jumbo is to much for me at times..yup, here comes the headache now
<persia> nixternal: That's my thought.  Note that it is considered permissible to ship incompatibly licensed material in the same package so long as the parts are separately derived, and the code stack for each executed piece is licensed cleanly (see thread starting at http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/12/msg00029.html)
<LaserJock> well, when you start patching and stuff I think you might make the claim that it's a combined work
<LaserJock> but I don't think, in general, it's considered a problem
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<persia> LaserJock: Huh?  If it's a "combined work", and one of the licesnses is GPL and the other GPL-imcompatible, how is this not a problem?
<nixternal> I don't think its a problem, but in a way it is a combined work. you create application A, and I created a package of application A. now, in order for it to be a problem possibly, the package itself might have to be considered an application in its own
<nixternal> well ya, the licensing has to be compattible
<nixternal> persia: are you thinking about Google Desktop :)
<persia> nixternal: Not specifically, although that may also be a good example.
<LaserJock> persia: usually that isn't a problem
<persia> LaserJock: Is there an official opinion somewhere, or do we just not care?
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure
<LaserJock> but packaging is in general considered public domain
<LaserJock> unless specifically noted otherwise
<persia> LaserJock: I'm guessing that Canonical Legal can get away with a bit of "lots of people can upload, sorry for the mistake", but I don't want to cause the problem :)
<LaserJock> why would there be a problem?
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  That makes sense.  I was previously advised that it was best practice to specifically license packaging: should I not so advise uploaders?
<LaserJock> no, I think it's an ok practice
<LaserJock> because it's clear
<persia> LaserJock: If the licensor of something wanted to complain about incompatible licenses.
<LaserJock> heh, if they complain we can change it
<LaserJock> but I would think there would be a whole lot of problem in debian
* _MMA_ wonders if this is about any of his ubuntustudio packages. ;)
<persia> _MMA_: As an example only
<pygi> hey etank 
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<nixternal> http://code.google.com/p/google-desktop-for-linux-mirror/downloads/list
<nixternal> heh, rfc_uuid was originally developed by microsoft...interesting
<persia> LaserJock: Yeah.  That was my thought (and I also think we try to follow Debian licensing policies).
<etank> howdy pygi 
<etank> and everyone else too :)
<nixternal> I wonder if they still hold the patent for it, if so you are violating Microsoft, and if it is with a baseball bat, keep on violating!
<gnomefreak> for a package to show up on my Lp page under maintainence report i have to be listed as maintainer?
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> just set Maintainer: to MOTU and join up! :)
<bigon> could someone have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5811 ?
<LaserJock> persia: I would venture to say most packages in Debian do not license the packaging
<LaserJock> but I think for completness and correctness it's good to do so
<gnomefreak> nixternal: problem there is motu looks at that page to see what you have done and you cant join motu until they have approved you part by looking at that page
<gnomefreak> so i guess i should start keeping track
<LaserJock> and obviously if you're going to do it, it should be compatible with the package
<minghua> I don't think blindly encouraging licensing the packaging is a good idea
<minghua> unless the package is single-lincensed, and the packaging uses the same license
<LaserJock> exactly
<minghua> but I do very little REVU work, do my opinion doesn't really matter
<LaserJock> in fact, I would recommend against using GPL for licensing packaging in general
<minghua> actually, make that "very little MOTU work" :-(
<LaserJock> I would explicitly do as close to public domain as possible
<LaserJock> so there wouldn't be any problems in the future
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: you are totally right, that is a big issue
<persia> LaserJock: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html encourages one (and is listed as part of the ftp-master reject FAQ).
<nixternal> gnomefreak: I don't have any packages I specifically maintain in Ubuntu
<nixternal> same goes in Debian, except for one package. I set KDE Extras to maintainer and me as an uploader
<gnomefreak> i do but i either have motu or mozillateam as maintainers
<LaserJock> persia: "Ideally you include a license statement for your Debian packaging also" note the ideally part ;-)
<gnomefreak> what about adding my name next to the maintainer?
<nixternal> all of my packages listed on my LP page weren't uploaded by me. Is that what you are referring to?
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Hence "encourages" :)
<gnomefreak> nixternal: i have uploaded a few and fixed a bunch but nothing on my Lp at all
<nixternal> gnomefreak: if you want to be the maintainer of a package then do it...I was joking about the MOTU part in a way :)
<nixternal> orly
<nixternal> who has been uploading your fixes and what not?
<gnomefreak> a few people :) but they will be there when i go for motu
<minghua> persia: the mail and examples with in from the d-d-a list is very nice, but those requires careful consideration from the maintainer's part
<nixternal> that is odd, I never uploaded anything, others have, yet I got credit for it
<gnomefreak> nixternal: same here
* nixternal looks at your page so I know what is going on a little more clearly
<nixternal> only thing I pay attention to is boogs in LP :)
<gnomefreak> ;)
<nixternal> interesting, your page doesn't list a thing
<gnomefreak> i just said that 
<gnomefreak> lol
<nixternal> hahaha
<nixternal> I know, but I wasn't clear because you said people uploaded for you
* gnomefreak last uploader for iceape and nspluginwrapper
<gnomefreak> they did upload for me as i cant
<nixternal> ahh ya that's right, you are doing that stuff
<nixternal> didn't I see your name in the gutsy-changes list though for those uploads?
<gnomefreak> i dont know i didnt see it
<nixternal> I am looking now
<Kmos> gnomefreak: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/date.html
<nixternal> gnomefreak: gwget2 sound familiar?
<gnomefreak> yes i remember that as well
<nixternal> that is the only thing I see in the gutsy-changes with your name on it
<nixternal> and that should at least be on your page
<nixternal> that is weird
<pygi> nixternal, it's not 
<pygi> new uploads are either -motu or core-dev
<gnomefreak> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/003026.html
<nixternal> pygi: I understand that, as I had 1 or 2 new uploads, and yet they are on my page when someone else obviously uploaded them in the past
<pygi> nixternal, true, they should be on his page tho
<nixternal> ya, that is what I thought
<pygi> nixternal, it is however possible we're not tracking that anymore
<pygi> since *new* maintainers for stuff are motu or core devs
<pygi> no one else
<pygi> so perhaps all goes to them
<nixternal> ya, but if gnomefreak creates/recreates a package and signs it, he should get recognition for it no matter who uploads it
<persia> I think we're tracking the "Changed-By" tag in source.changes, so it depends on how the uploader processed the upload.
<gnomefreak> so what is suggested on how to track this
<nixternal> gnomefreak: well there is always <release>-changes which documents everything, well almost everything, the recent LP updates broke the *-changes updates
<nixternal> gnomefreak: I might ask an LP admin what is up unless someone here knows for a fact the issue at hand
<gnomefreak> ok so as long as you are under changed by: than it should show up in LP?
<minghua> from the little REVU work I've done, many MOTU hopefuls can't even get the upstream copyright/licenses correct in debian/copyright file
<minghua> persia: ^^^
<persia> minghua: I'm seeing that too, which is actually one of the sources of my questions.  Most of my REVU comments are licensing related (although I also note when packages have forgotten to use lintian and linda).
<minghua> persia: yeah, so as LaserJock said, the REVU land is far from "ideally" yet, so maybe we can leave the packaging licensing alone for now :-)
<persia> minghua: I'm just one commenter.  It doesn't block other's uploading :)
<jussi01> heh, I find licensing the hardestmost tiresome part of packaging...
<jussi01> damn, my stupid / key...
<jussi01> never works
<nixternal> I find it the easiest :)
<nixternal> I have a few Debian svn projects checked out, so I refer to them when I have questions...most of the time I can just copy and paste into the license and roll with it. In it for a minute or two and then on to something else
<jussi01> hmmm...maybe Ive just had dodgy lincensed packages... right persia?
<minghua> IIRC, LP credits "uploaded packages" if you are the uploader ("changed-by") and your keyring is in LP
<jussi01> damn, ive got bad typo's tonightt
<persia> jussi01: Yep.  As long as upstream is clean about licensing, it's usually pretty easy (although people sometimes make mistakes anyway).
<minghua> I agree copyright/licensing varies a lot from package to package
<alex-weej> i'm just building some simple packages that i plan to distribute
<alex-weej> am i ok using "dpkg-deb -b"?
<LaserJock> hmm, let me think a little
<minghua> it took mplayer like three years to get that part right
<LaserJock> I think LP should take it from changelog
<minghua> LaserJock: I think it's the .changes
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i agree, atleast thats the easiest way to track accutual changes
<LaserJock> the uploader is determined from .changes
<LaserJock> but that's different
<LaserJock> I think
<LaserJock> oh heck, now I'm getting myself confused
<LaserJock> I filed a bug about one of these
<minghua> LaserJock: why?  as long as you don't build with -m option, the changed-by line in .changes should be same as the first entry of debian/changelog
<LaserJock> well yes
<LaserJock> that's what I'm meaning, sorry
<LaserJock> like I said, I'm confusing myself
<minghua> I'm afraid you are starting to confuse me as well...
<jussi01> ok, i give in... someone tll me how to make it work? please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27685/
<LaserJock> ok, LP should keep track of both the person in the changelog and the person who signed/uploaded
<LaserJock> the first is done by Changed-By: , right?
<persia> LaserJock: Changed-By is the last changelog entry.
<LaserJock> right
<nixternal> jussi01: there either isn't a makefile in the root directory, or ./configure was never run ;p
<LaserJock> and the second is determined from the gpg signature
<nixternal> I think you know that though, that is what I am being a smart ass on that one 
* jussi01 calls for hobbsee and her stick...
<jussi01> :P
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> jussi01: is this the package where the makefile and what not is in src/ ?
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: do you have an example package & version that should show up on your LP page?
<jussi01> nixternal: yes...
<geser> jussi01: you need the right summoning
<jussi01> geser: yes....
<minghua> LaserJock: yes.  and I don't even know where debian keep the information about the signer/sponsor.  the only place I can check it is the qa.d.o page (besides looking through -devel-changes list archive, of course)
<AndyP> am i correct in thinking there's a Q&A session in an hour?
<AndyP> ish
<LaserJock> minghua: LP just started keeping that info not long ago
<jussi01> I have this in my rules file right now, 
<jussi01> cd $(CURDIR)/src/
<jussi01> 	make
<jussi01> what should it be?
<nixternal> jussi01: that is exactly what I was going to ask
<nixternal> I have a similar thing with an icon package, and that is what i did
<nixternal> err, maybe not...let me look
<jussi01> nixternal: I can read your mind :P
<minghua> LaserJock: oh?  would you show me a pointer please?
<minghua> s/show/give/, I suppose
<persia> jussi01: You probably also want that before ./configure
<nixternal> hrmm, maybe it wasn't the icon package...wth package was it now
<jussi01> persia: config works
<nixternal> now that is odd, the config works but the makefile doesn't
<jussi01> config looks like: $(CURDIR)/src/./config but i tried that with make and it didnt work....
<LaserJock> minghua: as to what?
<minghua> LaserJock: LP keeping track of the sponsor info
<LaserJock> well, I don't have much of a pointer
<LaserJock> I don't think they actually do anything with it yet
<LaserJock> other than I think they use it in soyuz to send the Accepted/Rejected emails
<minghua> oh, I see
<minghua> so sponsor and uploader both receive the accepted/rejected mails now?
<nixternal> I have a tip: don't play leaf frog with a unicorn!
<nixternal> argh, LEAP
<nixternal> jeesh, blew my own damn joke
<jussi01> nixternal: thanks.... :P
<LaserJock> minghua: well, no, right now just the sponsor
<LaserJock> I filed a bug to also get the sponsoree an email too
<LaserJock> we had a few cases where somebody uploaded a package from REVU and it took a while for the archive admins to get to them
<LaserJock> and the sponsor was kinda MIA so nobody knew what happened to the packages
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: yes i have a few
* minghua is not sure whether the sponsor or the sponsoree is more deserving the mail (if we can only have one) :-P
<LaserJock> minghua: well, that's why I said both need it
<LaserJock> ;-)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/003733.html
<gnomefreak> thats one
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: ahh, I found the problem
<LaserJock> or at least the problem with that one
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: check out https://launchpad.net/~gnomefreak-ubuntu/+packages ;-)
<gnomefreak> lol ok shall i give you another or 2?
<gnomefreak> that just took a a day to get there
<LaserJock> gimme more of them
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/002583.html  another one a bit further of a date
<LaserJock> what happened with that one was that you don't have your @ubuntu.com address in your LP account
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/2007-June/003026.html
<LaserJock> so it created a new account
<gnomefreak> ah
<gnomefreak> damn
<LaserJock> so you need to merge those 2 accounts
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: ok let me see if i can pull it up
<LaserJock> oh my gosh
<minghua> So we are already past Debian Import Freeze, and all future syncs needs requests?  That seems a bit early to me.
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: I found the other ones
<gnomefreak> omg
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: is there a fast easy way to do this?
<minghua> Considering the state in unstable right now.
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop-effects/+packages
<gnomefreak> ah
<LaserJock> my only thought there is that the contact email for ~ubuntu-desktop-effects is yours
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: there was my ubuntu.com one but i changed it
<geser> minghua: yes, during the feisty cycle it was also so early
<minghua> during feisty it's better because Debian is pretty much frozen
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
<minghua> I expect a bumpy road ahead
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: ah that would do it
<minghua> hope the archive admin (or whoever in charge) can keep up with sync requests
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, I asked about that but I don't think I got much of a response
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: ty the duplicate accounts would be the wrong ones?
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: yes, well only gnomefreak-ubuntu
* minghua still remember the old days (dapper?) when sync requests stay weeks to get processed
<minghua> not good memories
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do with the desktop-effects ones other than put a link to those on your wiki page
<LaserJock> minghua: there are significantly more archive admins now, but I know what you mean
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: ok ty i might have to do that thank you for finding them
<LaserJock> I'm having LP devs looking at what it takes to have MOTUs do archive admining
<minghua> LaserJock: let's wait and see then.  If the processing time is short, I don't mind submitting requests, it's good QA.
<LaserJock> minghua: during at least parts of dapper there was only elmo. Now there are 9 archive admins
<minghua> Anyway, I should concentrate on getting my Debian packages in shape, then worry about sync requests.
<persia> LaserJock: Full archive admining, or just SYNC approvals?
<LaserJock> persia: for MOTU?
<persia> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> the full thing of course
<LaserJock> it can then be limited to what we need
<LaserJock> but I want LP to have the needed changes
<LaserJock> so when we decide we need to do something and TB agrees it'll be there
<persia> LaserJock: Ah.  That'd be nice (I'm especially interested in binary removals).
<LaserJock> oh yes, binary removals would be excellent
* ajmitch doesn't know if we'd get the whole range of super powahs
<ajmitch> like NEW
<LaserJock> well, there's a difference between the social constraints and technical constraints
<LaserJock> I want to make sure there aren't any technical reasons why we can't
* persia isn't sure about NEW - licensing is hard, murky, and dangerous
<LaserJock> whether the TB/Ubuntu Archive lets us is entirely different, and in my opinion we really shouldn't do much
<LaserJock> I really wouldn't want MOTU doing NEW
<LaserJock> I think syncs, sru pushing, and binary removals would be the real use cases
<persia> LaserJock: Are you drafting a spec?
<LaserJock> well, not exactly
<LaserJock> I filed a bug and was going to write a spec when we were having issues with SRUs
* jussi01 is going to bed...night all
<LaserJock> we almost got -proposed admining rights, but LP wasn't ready
<persia> LaserJock: That's another use case I'd like to see: removals from -proposed.
<LaserJock> but now that the SRU process has changed and we don't have motu-sru anymore I've had to Won't Fix that bug for now
<LaserJock> persia: yes
<LaserJock> but I just told kiko and cprov yesterday that I don't want them to forget about it
<LaserJock> but it's not high priority right now
<LaserJock> I think cprov was working on a spec
* persia thinks a w.u.c spec would be preferable to a w.l.c.c spec, for better MOTU input.
<LaserJock> in fact I believe my "motu-sru should admin -proposed" bug was slated for 1.1.8
<LaserJock> persia: yes, that is an issue
<LaserJock> I tried to get access to w.l.c.c ;-)
<persia> LaserJock: Specific individuals having access doesn't help: policy is that the contents of w.l.c.c cannot be exported (despite the subscription bug).
<LaserJock> I said "don't expect me to work on a spec if I don't even have read-access to the wiki"
<Kmos> I'/quit
<LaserJock> but they (well one person) didn't go for it
<minghua> What exactly is binary removal for?
<persia> minghua: For when a package is no longer built for an architecture, but we still ship the old (buggy, uninstallable) version.
<LaserJock> or
<LaserJock> like say in Debian, we get towards the end of the release and we have really crappy packages
<persia> minghua: Currently processing is a bit slow.  My binary removal requested for Breezy was processed for Gutsy.
<LaserJock> we can pull the binaries before release so people don't try to install uninstallable junk ;-)
<minghua> I see.  I though such things are automatically done in Debian
<LaserJock> they are
<persia> minghua: Yes (in Debian)
<LaserJock> we don't have anything in Ubuntu
<ajmitch> persia: "a bit slow" indeed
<LaserJock> you just file a bug and sub ubuntu-archive
<minghua> But I do realize that Debian and Ubuntu have rather different archive management.
<ajmitch> that's because we don't have 3 archives
<LaserJock> my removals have only take a week or two
<ajmitch> not in the same way debian does
<LaserJock> we're missing Testing :-)
<persia> LaserJock: I suspect it was because someone tried to submit a patch to fix mine :)
<minghua> we copy all the binary packages in feisty when we open gutsy, right?
<LaserJock> persia: ah yeah, mine were all "dead upstream, buggy package, and Debian got rid of it"
<persia> minghua: Right (a spec to rebuild for new releases would be nice too)
<persia> LaserJock: That's a package removal (not binary removal).  I usually get those processed in a month or so.
<LaserJock> oh, right
<minghua> By "copy", I mean "keep the same binary package, generate a new Packages.gz for gutsy based on those", of course
<LaserJock> hmm, i don't know that I've ever had a binary removal done
<LaserJock> usually they just pull the source package and leave the binary
<LaserJock> minghua: yep
<LaserJock> I think we'd have a whole lot of FTBFS if we rebuilt each release
<LaserJock> it's annoying when you get a new package from Debian and it FTBFS
<persia> LaserJock: That's the idea.  I found a package that was shipped FTBFS in feisty, as the binary worked fine, but the tools to generate it has changed, so it could not be patched locally.
<LaserJock> and you go back and we've had the same binary since Hoary or Breezy
<minghua> Well, according to the gutsy schedule on wiki.u.c, we should just finished the _second_ archive rebuild test.
<ajmitch> minghua: funny
<persia> minghua: That's mostly main.
<LaserJock> Main
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I believe they have quite a component-wide testing setup
<LaserJock> iwj I believe worked a lot on that stuff
<minghua> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule  # it should be the first rebuild, sorry
<LaserJock> Universe is just the cruft of the packaging world ;-)
<persia> it would be nice if the tools ran on universe, and the output was somewhere.  No committment to fix it, but so that we could see the issues and fix them if we have time.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, I've wanted to ask but haven't had the time to follow up on it
<minghua> lucas did that for feisty once, I remember
<persia> LaserJock: No rush.  You've a full plate already :)
<minghua> although rather close to release date
<LaserJock> of course it's probably all like MoM so we won't be able to see what's going on ;-)
<LaserJock> yes, he ran it through on that grid thing he's got access too
<LaserJock> 40,000 nodes or something
<ajmitch> heh
<minghua> BTW, lucas is doing that for debian on weekly/biweekly basis now
<LaserJock> didn't it take him something like 4-7hrs to rebuild Universe
<ajmitch> it didn't take long, at least
<LaserJock> I can't imagine what it would take on my machine
<minghua> http://people.debian.org/~lucas/logs/2007/  # for those interested and didn't know
<ajmitch> weeks
<broonie> LaserJock: The limit on how fast it can be built is the time taken for openoffice.org to build :)
<minghua> anybody want to guess which package is the second in building time after OO.o? :-)
<Nafallo> kernel-source
<Nafallo> linux-source even
<LaserJock> broonie: right, makes sense
<geser> how long does it take to build OO.o?
<Nafallo> geser: 12h on the buildds IIRC
<Nafallo> could be more :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: that's not all of Debian thuogh
* Nafallo starts launchpad ;-)
<minghua> LaserJock: the people.d.o url?
<LaserJock> yeah, that list looks too short for all of Debian main
<LaserJock> I wonder how long it would take to build OO.o on my "shiny" new Ultra 10 ;-)
<ajmitch> ask calc :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> I'm sure  he'll put in a special laserjock build flag
<minghua> LaserJock: those are the ones that FTBFS
<Nafallo> oooh. it's only 9h now :-D
<minghua> LaserJock: for a full one, see e.g. http://people.debian.org/~lucas/logs/2007/06/19/sym/
<geser> the kernel takes only like 4 hours, latex-cjk-chinese-arphic takes 7 hours
<Nafallo> ha! 12h on i386 :-)
<Nafallo> OO.o that is
<minghua> the package that take the second longest time to build is latex-cjk-chinese-arphic, an arch:all package
<minghua> yeah, geser beats me
<minghua> I can't find the mail about top 10 now :-(
<geser> minghua: latex-cjk-chinese-arphic had once a FTBFS because it didn't generate some output and the buildd timed out
<minghua> geser: yeah, wouldn't happen for Debian.  :-P
<minghua> IMHO that package is not properly constructed, and it can be made to take less time to build, but what do I know.
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: just out of curiosity can a LP adminn move those packages from ubuntu-desktop-effects to my account? im keeping link anyway but just wondering if i should ping one tomorrow about it
<LaserJock> gnomefreak: I really don't know. I assume that a database admin could do it, but in general I don't think they like manually mucking around in the DB
<LaserJock> but you could always ask ;-)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: ok ty ill try whats worse they can say? no?
<LaserJock> pretty much
<alex-weej> i have some python code that i want to package up
<persia> gnomefreak: Open a support request from answers.launchpad.net asking for the LP accounts to be merged.
<alex-weej> i tried to cheat and use dpkg-deb -b but it included all of the file ownership properties
<alex-weej> so now i have stuff installed on my system owned by "alex"
<alex-weej> how do i do this properly
<alex-weej> given that i don't actually have a build process (it's all python)
<alex-weej> i just so desperately want to build a package out of this and it's all going against me
<LaserJock> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot should work
<LaserJock> if you install fakeroot
<minghua> "don't cheat"? :-)
<alex-weej> is dpkg-deb "cheating"?
<RAOF> Yeah, pretty much.
<persia> alex-weej: You might want to have a setup.py for your "build process".
<RAOF> Even data-only packages like mplayer-themes use dpkg-buildpackage :)
<minghua> "fakeroot debian/rules clean && fakeroot debian/rules binary" is probably the bare minimum for building a package
<LaserJock> persia, geser: we should have the Debian ftp-master "Grounds for rejection" material "ubuntuized" on the wiki
<alex-weej> persia: to do what exactly?
<persia> LaserJock: Yes, but also reviewed by the archive admins to adjust for differences (build-dep must be satisifed for main, etc.).
<alex-weej> persia: literally nothing needs to be built
<alex-weej> persia: unless you want my setup.py to read "pass" :P
<azeem> alex-weej: but installed
<azeem> doesn't setup.py install things as well?
<alex-weej> i don't know
<alex-weej> i've never seen one
<lifeless> setup.py installs things
<alex-weej> i wasn't aware there was a convention
<LaserJock> persia: yeah
<alex-weej> can i not just use a make file?
<minghua> alex-weej: do you have a source package or not?
<lifeless> alex-weej: you don't need to install things though
<persia> alex-weej: I've not actually packaged anything with python, but other packages seem to use setup.py to install everything to the right locations, and the packaging wrapper scripts use this for a build process.
<alex-weej> minghua: no.
<LaserJock> minghua: I think the answer is now
<lifeless> alex-weej: you can just have debian/rules copy the files to the right places
<LaserJock> s/now/no/
<lifeless> alex-weej: and then use python-central etc
<minghua> LaserJock: yeah, should've guessed earlier
<alex-weej> lifeless: i don't see what i can put in the rules script
<lifeless> alex-weej: the best thing for you to do is to apt-get source $a-python-project
<RAOF> alex-weej: What lifeless said :).
<LaserJock> alex-weej: the stuff to install the files
* persia recommends a newer python project with a recent upload date
<LaserJock> alex-weej: and build a binary package
<alex-weej> wait - so i need to "fake" an install?
<RAOF> alex-weej: You can check out the specto package, that's pure-python only.
<azeem> alex-weej: yes - you install with a DESTDIR of $(curdir)/debian/<package> usually
<alex-weej> can i do this without touching autotools?
<azeem> dh_builddeb will make a .deb out that tree
<azeem> alex-weej: sure, you can run any command in the debian/rules
<RAOF> alex-weej: Yes.  You can use the python distutils.
<alex-weej> RAOF: tell me more!
<RAOF> alex-weej: apt-get source specto :)
<alex-weej> done
* persia notes that http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy has useful hints, and that "CDBS + distutils" makes this especially easy.
<RAOF> Now, there's a setup.py, which uses python-distutils to do all the installing stuff.
<alex-weej> so this is kinda like a python version of a makefile?
<RAOF> alex-weej: Indeed.  Exactly so.
<alex-weej> still feels like overkill, but i guess i've got to do it at some point
<alex-weej> is this stuff re-usable for building rpm?
<RAOF> Yes.
<RAOF> It's just like a makefile, it'll presumably help when building rpms.
<alex-weej> distutils has nothing to do with debian?
<alex-weej> ok
<RAOF> Indeed.
<RAOF> It's part of python.
<minghua> LaserJock: is ubuntu-science@tauware.de already moderated?
<LaserJock> distutils is like a Makefile for python
<LaserJock> minghua: should be yes
<minghua> LaserJock: and I assume -motu-science@l.u.c is moderated in the first place?
<LaserJock> minghua: hmm, have you gotten any messages from either list?
<LaserJock> minghua: yes, as far as I could tell
<LaserJock> I haven't used the mailman interface much
<minghua> LaserJock: yes, I did, the one from you replying the science edition, on both list.
<LaserJock> oh, ok good
<minghua> Now I want to reply that, to both list, but I am subscribed with different addresses.
<minghua> :-(
<LaserJock> oh, well I can change your address in the tauware one
<minghua> LaserJock: oh, I remember I can change it myself now.
<alex-weej> i don't think i'm cut out for packaging
<minghua> LaserJock: I'll do it, thanks for the hint. :-)
<LaserJock> alex-weej: it's alright, just take a deep breath :-)
<LaserJock> alex-weej: the actual packaging part isn't so bad
<RAOF> alex-weej: Once you get past the initial overwhelming, it's actually fairly simple.
<LaserJock> if you want to distribute your software you'll mostly likely want to use distutils anyway
<alex-weej> i need to build basically 3 packages out of a load of files i have
<alex-weej> am i going to need 3 * all this effort?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> one source packagec can build multiple binary packages
<alex-weej> LaserJock: it's actually all just prototype stuff in python atm. i expect to replace some of it with C.
<LaserJock> well, it'll be a good character-building experience, as my dad used to always say
<alex-weej> oh jeez, thanks :P
<LaserJock> actually if you do much python it's probably not bad to learn how to do a setup.py
<alex-weej> i'm RTFMing right now
<LaserJock> I've done one by just copy-n-modify
<LaserJock> and it was only like 10 lines long
<alex-weej> it seems very simple for distributing python modules
<alex-weej> but i actually need stuff in /etc/xdg/autostart and stuff
<LaserJock> well, you could just use a makefile too if you want
<LaserJock> I think you can distutils where to install stuff too
<alex-weej> maybe that will be easier to knock up
<alex-weej> so what do i do, make an installation process
<alex-weej> then run it via some fancy tool to make a deb out of it?
<LaserJock> something like that ;-)
<alex-weej> where am i wrong?
<LaserJock> first thing is to be able to build from source
<LaserJock> then you can build a source package, debian/rules ,etc.
<RAOF> alex-weej: Actually, you can get setup.py to put stuff wherever you want to.  For example, specto installs stuff into /usr/share/icons, eetc.
<alex-weej> ok - i have no "build" remember
<LaserJock> yes you do
<alex-weej> LaserJock: what, the install?
<LaserJock> debian/rules is used to build the .deb
<persia> alex-weej: If you put everything in the right place with distutils, there are tools that will automatically build a package with all the right pieces.
<LaserJock> so the build: rule will be empty, but there's much more to do
<minghua> well, you need to be able to give another person a tarball, and instructions of "run the following commands, and it's ready".  Those instructions are the "build".
<alex-weej> maybe i should make an actual, bona fide "source" package first
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> well, make your app "build" from source first
* minghua goes home, be back later.
<LaserJock> then build a source package (an Ubuntu one)
<LaserJock> then build a binary package from the source package
<alex-weej> sounds like a plan
<alex-weej> i take it in my Makefile i need to provide a means for some tool to change the installation destination?
<alex-weej> or can i cheat, here?
<alex-weej> with checkinstall or whatever
<lifeless> huh
<alex-weej> i have /usr/lib/whatever hardcoded in a couple of my files
<lifeless> you don't need to do anything to your code, debian/rules can do it all
<lifeless> oh, if you have paths in your files you have to fix that
<alex-weej> damn
<lifeless> you shouldn't need to do that in python, ever.
<alex-weej> it's not python
<alex-weej> it's .desktop
<lifeless> I suggest what you should do is add a setup.py, and read the python distutils documentation
<lifeless> such that your .desktop is a created file
<alex-weej> this is looking more and more like autotools :(
<alex-weej> .desktop.in? :P
<RAOF> Yes.  Any sensible source package is going to need to be able to installed where the user wants.  Which means changing such things as Desktop files to point where they need to :)
<lifeless> its important to remember that software building is pretty much universal
<lifeless> using python does not remove the build process per se
<lifeless> building software is in the general sense much more than mere compilation
<alex-weej> the only use case i want to support is people double clicking on a .deb file to get some files on their system
<lifeless> and autotools exists because there is a problem to be solved; its true that autotools is nasty but thats for different reasons.
<alex-weej> and that means that my paths don't need to change (for now)
<lifeless> alex-weej: if you only care about Ubuntu, then hardcode the path sure. 
<alex-weej> lifeless: ok - for now
<alex-weej> i've made a makefile to install my files
<alex-weej> and it works
<persia> alex-weej: You shouldn't need hardcoded paths in your .desktop file anyway.  The Exec= should be in the $PATH, and the Icon= should be in the icon load path.
<alex-weej> persia: the Exec line is "python /usr/lib/blabla"
<persia> alex-weej: Create a /usr/bin/blabla.sh file that calls that (or install the executable python to /usr/bin and use #!), and have the .desktop file point to just blabla.
<alex-weej> but then if i DO install it to /usr/local, it will be confused for whatever is in /usr
<persia> alex-weej: Right.  Sorry.  Have a shell fragment or executable python installed to $(PREFIX)/bin, and expect the user to arrange the path properly so that Exec=blabla works.
<RAOF> Yeah, and /usr/local/bin is in $PATH before /usr/bin generally anyway.
<alex-weej> ok i meant it the other way
<alex-weej> :P
<alex-weej> i will sort it out eventually
<alex-weej> my biggest problem is figuring out this rules stuff
<RAOF> Having stuff in /usr/local/bin will hide stuff in /usr/bin?  That's by design, so that locally installed programs can replace packaged programs.
<alex-weej> right but then when i actually want to run /usr/bin/blabla, it will kick off /usr/local/lib/blabla/whatever.py
<alex-weej> which i don't want
<alex-weej> (unless the paths are hardcoded)
<persia> alex-weej: If you have a working distutils-compatible setup.py, http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy has some example rules files.
<persia> alex-weej: There shouldn't be two things with the same name on the system.
<alex-weej> there shouldn't be war in the middle east either... :P
<RAOF> alex-weej: Aaah, I see.  You're trying to manually call python on your script?  Either the script doesn't need any other files, or you should be making and installing a python module and importing it into the script.
<persia> alex-weej: Right.  So the user is responsible for configuring their personal $PATH to either choose /usr/bin/blabla or /usr/local/bin/blabla depending on what they want.
<RAOF> Either way, you don't need to care.
<alex-weej> persia: what i'm saying is that calling either /usr/bin/blabla or /usr/local/bin/blabla will actually launch the same python script in /usr/local
<alex-weej> which isn't ideal
<alex-weej> if i explicitly want to launch the non-local version it should just work
<persia> alex-weej: Why would it launch in the undesired place?
<alex-weej> because i'm supposedly removing the hardcoded paths from the scripts/.desktop files
<persia> alex-weej: PREFIX=$(echo $0 | sed s/(.*)/blabla)//) should allow a shell fragment to pick the right one at runtime, and executable python in bin/ should have the right environment anyway.
<RAOF> alex-weej: I'm not quite sure what the problem is.  You want to run "myprog".  If the user has installed a copy of "myprog" into /usr/local/bin, that's what they expect to run.
<alex-weej> there is no problem at all
<alex-weej> i'm hardcoding the paths. ;)
* RAOF is still not sure why you need to.  Anyway...
<javier_galicia> coool
<alex-weej> this is wayyy more complicated than i thought it was, think i'll have to postpone
<alex-weej> sorting this out seems to be more LOCs than my actual program
<alex-weej> or maybe i can convince someone here that my software is so cool that they'll be the downstream maintainer ;)
<alex-weej> thanks for your help guys, i'll be back to finish the job eventually
<RAOF> They'll still want you, as upstream, to actually have a build system :P
<RAOF> They might submit one for you, though :)
<alex-weej> RAOF: hehe
<LaserJock> exit
<LaserJock> blah
<jrib> is  #!/usr/bin/python  preferred over  #!/usr/bin/env python  ?  I've always preferred the latter but the debian policy menu only mentions the former
<RAOF> #!/usr/bin/python.  Using "#!/usr/bin/env python" means that the process shows up as "python" rather than "scriptname" in top, etc.
<etank> i just learned something new
<etank> thanks RAOF 
<jrib> me too, thanks RAOF 
* RAOF learnt that while wondering why his program wasn't coming up as "specto" :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I've wondered that as well
<alex-weej> RAOF: not necessarily true i don't think, an app can call some function to set its name
<etank> i met my learning quota for the week :)
<RAOF> alex-weej: Probably, but why not just use #!/usr/bin/python and get it for free :)
<etank> i have to leave before i learn something else
<alex-weej> because your python interpreter might be in /usr/local ;)
<jrib> yeah, that's why I think it makes more sense
<etank> so does that mean that #!/usr/bin/env pythong is better
<alex-weej> import ctypes; libc = ctypes.CDLL("libc.so.6"); libc.prctl(15, "ZOMGNAME", 0, 0, 0)
<alex-weej> robbed from cohoba ;)
<etank> especially if publishing the script for others on differnt distros to use?
<alex-weej> maybe that dun't work actually, :(
<alex-weej> it seems to work for killall
<alex-weej> but that supposedly is PR_SET_NAME (set process name) from libc
<TheMuso> Good afternoon Hobbsee .
<Hobbsee> hiya TheMuso 
<ajmitch> hello TheHobbsee, TheMuso 
<Hobbsee> hi aj
<TheMuso> Heya ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
* ajmitch is glad that he upgraded his sarge box to etch
<ajmitch> now I can see utf-8 stuff properly on irc
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee 
<ajmitch> a critical feature
<Hobbsee> hiya LaserJock!
<TheMuso> superm1: have you fixed up gtk2-engines-blueheart yet?
<superm1> TheMuso, not yet.  Just got home.  I'll fix it up tonight
<superm1> and upload it
<TheMuso> superm1: No hury.Just thought I'd bring it up, as its just about ready to go.
<superm1> TheMuso, thx for the reminder.  I'll ping you as soon as i get it up
<TheMuso> superm1: np.
<superm1> TheMuso, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5815
<TheMuso> superm1: Ok, will have a look after lunch.
<superm1> k
<joejaxx> does anyone know how takes care of most of the java-based applications in universe/multiverse?
<joejaxx> s/how/who/g
<persia> joejaxx: ~motujava
<joejaxx> persia: thanks
<joejaxx> ah ok interesting
<guest> I uploaded a package to REVU a few days ago, but it has not received any comments. How do I go about finding a sponsor for my package?
<joejaxx> poke someone about it
<persia> guest: Make an annoucement here, with the package name, the current status, and the REVU URL.  You will probably want to do that again for each upload.
<joejaxx> persia: have you ever seen this? http://tinyurl.com/2owew2 i thought it was interesting
<persia> joejaxx: I hadn't seen that.  Looks like a good presentation, although a little short as documentation :)
<guest> Thanks for the response persia. The package name is "imageinfo" and the REVU URL is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5780 . Could you please be a bit more specific about the "current status"?
<joejaxx> persia: yeah :)
<persia> guest: That's perfect.  Status isn't official, so there's no real standards.  I like to know if it's new, it's an upload fixing issues waiting for an advocate, or if it's been advocated or needs a second advocate.  I've also seen people who are having issues with a particular portion say something like "Could you look at the install rule, and help me understand what's wrong?".
<guest> persia: Ah, I understand. It's the first upload of this package to REVU, and has no advocates.
<guest> persia: Any more status information I should provide?
<nixternal> OK, what is the recommendend process if someone uploads to REVU when there is already a package in either Debian or Ubuntu, or both?
<nixternal> so far I have gone through 4+ package in a matter of minutes, and we already have the packages
<nixternal> I responded with information letting them know this package is in the repos and that a patch to update it either via Debian or Ubuntu is the way to go..am I correct with that?
<ScottK> nixternal: Bug fixes or new upstream releases?
<nixternal> new upstream releases
<ScottK> REVU for that is fine if it looks like someone else isn't active with it.  I did that with libnetaddr-ip-perl.
<ScottK> Of course that hadn't been updated in years.
<ScottK> And I needed the updated version for a build-dep of another package.
<ScottK> IIRC it was the first package I had uploaded.
<nixternal> cool...now I feel bad for requesting them to gimme some patchin' love :)
<ScottK> New upstreams aren't done with patches.
<nixternal> well, I don't mean patches, but getting either Debian to udpate so we can sync/merge
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> It's not rare for someone do upload the same or an older version than we have.  Those should just be archived with a nice note.
<nixternal> ya
<ScottK> Getting Debian to update is best, of course, but if the maintainer is present, it'd probably already be done and if the maintainer is absent, then it's really tough.
<ScottK> Go look at the last time libnetaddr-ip-perl was touched in Debian and ask yourself how I'd have managed to get that updated.
<nixternal> hehe, it was the same for krename and almost plucker
<nixternal> but it seems there is plucker dev activity again
<ScottK> I saw this of course from the perspective of being the vastly experienced 4th newest MOTU whereas you are the newbie 2nd newest MOTU who can benifit from sitting at my feet and learning.
<nixternal> I was talking to the DD today and he was excited like a kid in a candy store
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> ~ 6 hours until the MOTU meeting, so I guess I better go get some sleep.
<ScottK> Good night all (including nixternal).
<nixternal> hehe, g'nite
<nixternal> 6 hours til motu...oh wow
<nixternal> that is way to early
<ScottK> Agreed.  I have to set the alarm a little earlier than usual.  You being futher west, you might as well just stay up.
<nixternal> heck no, I stayed up to late last night
<LaserJock> darn, we've got to rotate times once in a while ;-)
<nixternal> oh ya, you are 2 hours behind me
<nixternal> so you could stay up :)
<ajmitch> oh, MOTU meeting tonight?
<ajmitch> do I have to be there?
* Hobbsee waves
* RAOF hugs
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> heya RAOF!  going to slug tonight?
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch!
<ajmitch> are you going to SLUG, Hobbsee?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: No, going to see Transformers with SpockSoc :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: no idea.  i just realised that it was on tonight, and that i wasnt working
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: apparantly there's a MOTU meeting as well
<lifeless> say what
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: oh really now?
<lifeless> SLUG, beer++.
<Hobbsee> er?
<Hobbsee> lifeless: heh
<Hobbsee> lifeless: do you know if Spiv is going?
<lifeless> T-90
<lifeless> hes not
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> lifeless: darn
<lifeless> Hobbsee: harass him on #bzr then :)
<Hobbsee> lifeless: haha
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<Hobbsee> lifeless: i believe TheMuso is being slack, and isnt coming either
<Hobbsee> doesnt seem like there will be a high turnout.
<jml> Hobbsee: I might go to the next one.
<lifeless> jml: next SLUG or next motu meeting?
<jml> slug
<lifeless> well, at least to the beer beforehand right ?
<Hobbsee> lifeless: you and beer...
<Hobbsee> lifeless: the promise of beer isnt terribly exciting to me
<jml> lifeless: What I know about packaging could be written on the back of a postage stamp
<lifeless> Hobbsee: its not exciting, just pleasant to have in the company of friends.
<lifeless> Hobbsee: *exciting* is a whole nother ball game.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: this is true
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: oh thanks.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Just don't consider my current location.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: hehe.  of course
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<TheMuso> nixternal: Ah didn't even think to check whether there was anything similar in the archive. Good catch.
<gpocentek> good morning
<gpocentek> once again I can't attend today's meeting :(
<Hobbsee> :(
<dholbach> hey gpocentek
<gpocentek> hey Hobbsee, hey dholbach 
<Hobbsee> hiya
<ajmitch> hey gpocentek 
<ajmitch> sorry to hear that
<gpocentek> heloo ajmitch 
<gpocentek> I've been really really busy these past months but it will change next week :)
<ajmitch> finishing up at a job?
<gpocentek> (new job)
<ajmitch> aha
* ajmitch has been busy, but with the same job :)
<ajmitch> interesting post on planet debian about the age of packages
<ajmitch> I wonder how old some of ours are
<persia> ajmitch: Much the same: except for a few exceptions, we probably have all the oldest (including exim-doc-html, last built pre-Warty).
<ajmitch> persia: except that we rebuilt everything when it was imported for the first time
<ajmitch> I believe we didn't start with a debian binary base
<ajmitch> though I may be wrong
<persia> ajmitch: As far as I know, everything was rebuilt pre-Warty, and we started from scratch, rather than a Debian binary base, although the build machines at that time ran something more akin to Debian pre-sarge, so the rebuild differences should have been fairly minor (excepting the *really* old stuff).
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> we've had full archive rebuilds since then, and thrown away the resulting binaries, to get build logs
<ajmitch> they are meant to be a regular thing now
<persia> ajmitch: Right, but it's the throwing away of the resulting binaries that is annoying: as Lucas points out, there are improvements to debhelper, the build chain, etc.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> we don't know what binaries will fail, eg due to optimisations, etc
<ajmitch> all we have is compile logs & a few packages that may have test suites
* persia has renewed determination to draft a "source imports for each new release" spec someday in the future
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> can you imagine the churn for users?
<shawarma> ...and mirrors.
* ajmitch thinks we'd need partial package updates before that
<ajmitch> hey shawarma 
<shawarma> ahoy
<shawarma> It's not impossible, but it's *very* involved.
<persia> ajmitch: WRT churn: aren't users expected to dist-upgrade anyway?  Separately, "partial package updates"?
<ajmitch> persia: lots of data files that would unnecessarily be downloaded again
<ajmitch> there are ways around redownloading everything
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  Yes.  The delta-download ideas that have been floating about for the past couple years.
<ajmitch> users are expected to dist-upgrade, but that only grabs changed packages. your proposal would change *everything*
* ajmitch doesn't want to download vegastrike-data multiple times :)
<persia> ajmitch: You should try uqm-music or uqm-voice :)  Also, haven't I made you download vegastrike-data about once a release anyway?
<ajmitch> yeah, you have
<ajmitch> and I've downloaded uqm-* before :)
<persia> ajmitch: Just for fun, it looks like there might be another snapshot pulled before gutsy releases (no, not me).
* ajmitch hates
* persia reconsiders, and thinks instead about a rebuild of everything not updated by UpstreamVersionFreeze to avoid duplicate churn
<ajmitch> heh
* juss01-bed wakes up... hi everyone...
<ajmitch> hi
<juss01-bed> hiya ajmitch
<StevenK> persia: As long as it works, why rebuild it?
<persia> StevenK: It might FTBFS, it might not work, etc.  Essentially, nobody in either Debian or Ubuntu has looked at the package for the last release.  Rebuilding would at least flag FTBFS issues.
<man-di> persia: In debian the whole archive is rebuilt weekly to find FTBF
<man-di> S
<man-di> persia: some developer has access to grid5000
<man-di> s/weekly/regularly/
<persia> man-di: Right.  Still, that relies on someone fixing it.  At least I've encountered a couple packages that were not rebuilt in Feisty, and became FTBFS due to build-dep changes in the months beforehand.
<man-di> he and some helpers report FTBFS as they get them
<man-di> persia: right
<man-di> persia: I just wanna say that FTBFS are found an reported early
<man-di> fixing is another issue
<persia> man-di: I think that's a good thing.  Also, if the packages are updated in Debian, Ubuntu will usually pull the fix, which would show as a rebuild for my purposes.  I'm only thinking about the packages that haven't been updated at all  (I remember finding one in Sarge that hadn't been uploaded in over 1000 days).
<man-di> persia: http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=242 might be interesting to you
<persia> man-di: That's actually the impetus for me thinking about it again :)
<man-di> ah ;-)
<RainCT> Hi
<siretart> morning
<siretart> does anyone happen to know how to make i810 in gutsy to reconsider (reprobe) my external VGA without restarting the x-server?
<ajmitch> hi siretart 
<siretart> hi ajmitch 
* jussi01 is really confused....
* jussi01 finally has an idea...
<jussi01> hmmm, this is a stupid question, but if it cant find the command make, what package is missing?....
<persia> jussi01: `dpkg -S $(which make)` suggests make :)
<geser> TheMuso: Hi, we have currently drupal 5.1 twice in the archive: once as drupal-5.1 (source drupal) and drupal5 (source drupal5). Can we drop one?
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<jussi01> hi DarkSun88
<joejaxx> Good Morning Everyone
<TheMuso> geser: Yes, drop the drupal source package.
<ajmitch> yay, drop drupal!
* ajmitch files bug requesting removal of php* from the archive
<geser> should we add a Replace:/Conflicts: drupal-5.1 to drupal5?
<geser> looks like it isn't necessary
<pygi> ajmitch, heh 
<TheMuso> geser: I'd say not.
<TheMuso> Time to burn a tribe 2 CD.
<TheMuso> Does anybody here use CD-RWs for testing?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: i am at the moment, yeah
<TheMuso> Are they limited to only burning at 4x?
<Q-FUNK> is anyone in core dev working on sound system integration?
<StevenK> Depends on your burner and the media
<RainCT> can some MOTU please look at Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only)? (Source and Binary validate with both lintian and linda.)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know that, but many burners can burn CD-RW at fast speeds, yet much media I have seen only works at 4x.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: haha i just saw your bug lol
<StevenK> TheMuso: Also affected by things such as DMA and bus speed.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: :)
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know that, but when one is able to burn CD-Rs at 8/16x speed, its the media.
<AndyP> good morning folks
<TheMuso> Hey AndyP.
<joejaxx> Good morning AndyP :)
<AndyP> hey TheMuso, joejaxx :)
<joejaxx> :)
<afflux> anyone can help me with http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5804 ? I use dh_pysupport and ${python:Depends} but it doesn't add python to the Depends. Any ideas what's wrong?
<ajmitch> afflux: uncomment export DH_VERBOSE=1 & paste the buildlog on pastebin
* ajmitch is too tired to think properly :)
<TheMuso> lol at edubuntu having powerpc+ps3 ports images.
<afflux> ajmitch: http://paste.stgraber.org/1926
<AndyP> afflux: i just tried building it and it threw an error because there's no configure-stamp rule
<afflux> jep, noticed that too
<afflux> i'll upload the clean version
<afflux> s/clean/cleaner(
<afflux> argh... s/(/\// ;)
* ajmitch shrugs, headache is not helping
<persia> When a REVU package has been uploaded, and rejected by the archive admins, how many advocates does it need to be reuploaded after the issues are fixed?
<dqdev> hello all. Sorry to ask here, but it's quite urgent. A need a library (libg2c.so.0) for 32bit. I have a 64bit machine and this library for the 64bit is installed. But where do I get the one for the 32 bits?
<AndyP> dqdev: libg2c0 according to packages.ubuntu.com
<dqdev> i should find it there?
<afflux> eh, no
<afflux> I think he wants lib32g2c0
<dqdev> FOUND!
<dqdev> cool guys! It works!!! Thanks a million!
<TheMuso> Well that was fun. Booted tribe 2 on my notebook, and it got into the GNOME desktop, and froze hard.
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> it is Tribe 2 :P
<TheMuso> I know that
<joejaxx> :D
<joejaxx> i wonder if tribe 2 will solve my currently arisen IBM HDAPS+Ubuntu problem
<geser> MOTU meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now
* TheMuso throws away a CD-RW. Dud!
<dholbach> how was yesterdays's MOTU Q&A sessions?
<geser> there was one?
<Ng> joejaxx: out of curiosity, which problem is that?
<dholbach> geser: yes, I was busy with lots of other things, so I didn't realize :-(((
<dholbach> maybe we should move them to #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-meeting
<dholbach> so we don't forget about it in a hurry (not many of us are in #ubuntu-classroom)
<geser> was there an announcement for it somewhere?
<geser> the frigde didn't list it
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: it was my area, but I'm leaving as of Sept.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: oh
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: feel free to join the ubuntu-audio LP team and begin there
<Q-FUNK> ok
* Ng notices his hdaps seems to have stopped working
<Ng> not that I use it for anything ;)
<afflux> In case anyone has an idea about my dh_pysupport problem in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5820, feel free to add comments. I'll leave for lunch now. ;)
<joejaxx> Ng: everytime i lift my laptop enough for the hdaps to kick in my lcd and backlight turns off and no keyboard input is accepted
<dholbach> geser: dunno if there was - we should make sure it's there next time
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: I've mainly been going nuts trying to get PA to work out of the box without me having to disable gnome system sounds or stop every other application any time I need to use skype or view youtube.
<Ng> joejaxx: erk
<joejaxx> Ng: and the only thing i can do is force shutdown
<joejaxx> or i could try ssh into my laptop and shut it down that way but i do not have opnssh-server installed at the moment i should probably do that
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: I've had the most luck using it in esound integration mode
* joejaxx goes to install openssh-server
<geser> joejaxx: and then go back and shut it down over ssh?
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: meaning installing pulseaudio-esound-compat and pavucontrol, using `asoundconf set-pulsesaudio`, and compiling and installing libflashsupport (http://adhd.irule.net/~crimsun/libflashsupport_feisty/)
<joejaxx> geser: well when it happens i will attempt to ssh in and shut it down instead of force shutdown
<joejaxx> and the bad thing is
<joejaxx> this happens on feisty
<Adri2000> ScottK: can we do the DaDandMoM item before clamav? because Lutin is a bit busy atm and he is going to leave
<ScottK> OK with me.
<Hobbsee> what exactly is this item about?
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: come again, about the asoundconf part?
<Adri2000> ScottK: thanks
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: we sent a mail about it, wikipage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaDandMoM
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: i saw tha tmuch
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: asoundconf set-pulseaudio  is a convenience macro available as of Feisty; executing it from the command prompt configures ~/.asoundrc and ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf as appropriate
<ScottK> StevenK: Did you see my devscripts whining in the scrollback about Bug #78165
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent or gpg-agent" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
<StevenK> I did. You might have seen me talking about it in -devel, too.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: any way to use this gloally?
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: the workhorse is the PulseAudio alsa-lib plugin located in the libasound2-plugins binary package, which is a Recommends of the pulseaudio binary package.
<siretart> has there been a decision about REVU in #ubuntu-meeting? I see only arguments, but no conclusion.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: sure, cp ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf to /etc/asound.conf afterward
<persia> siretart: About REVU days?  It will become an agenda item.
<ScottK> StevenK: No,  I haven't read the devel scrollback yet.
<siretart> persia: aha? ok.
<StevenK> ScottK: Ah ha
<ScottK> siretart: I was just making a joke about since you were late for the meeting you got volunteered for things because you weren't there to defend yourself.
<StevenK> [21:05]  < StevenK> cjwatson: My plan at this point is to take DISPLAY, 
<StevenK>                    GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET and XAUTHORITY, and put them somewhere, 
<StevenK>                    clean out the environment, run dpkg-buildpackage with -uc 
<StevenK>                    -us, add the three back and invoke debsign.
<ScottK> StevenK: Sounds excellent to me.
<crimsun> Q-FUNK: the GUI to handle this will be part of asoundconf-ui (https://launchpad.net/asoundconf-ui)
<ScottK> For gpg-agent, it looks like DISPLAY is all that's needed,
<ScottK> That's all I set and it works fine.
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<Q-FUNK> crimsun: nice
<StevenK> ScottK: seahorse-agent needs GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET, and maybe XAUTHORITY.
<ScottK> OK.  I think there's no harm in setting them.
<StevenK> And it won't affect the build.
<persia> StevenK: seahorse-agent works fine for me with only DISPLAY
* ScottK looked at the debuld source and if I knew any perl at all, it'd be easy to fix.
<StevenK> Wanna bet? debuild is a *mess*
<StevenK> And I get paid to write Perl.
<ScottK> StevenK: No.  Don't wanna bet.  All Perl I read looks like a mess, so I can't tell the real messes from regular perl.
<StevenK> Heh
<geser> StevenK: and what about reading perl?
<ScottK> geser: No one reads perl. It's a write only language.
<StevenK> Heh
<ScottK> geser: Note that StevenK doesn't argue that point.
<StevenK> Of course I don't, I agree.
<crimsun> sorry to bail; movers are here.  Offline until sometime Monday (2 Jul)
<ajmitch> bye crimsun 
<ScottK> crimsun: Enjoy the move.
<Q-FUNK> bye crimsun
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> On a project I'm working on the main dev needed a Ruby library after having used a Perl library.  Despite having worked with/customized the Perl library for several months, when he got confused by the RFC, he went and got the Python library to use as a reference...
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<Q-FUNK> interesting.  crimsun's config trick works out of the box on feisty.  :) however, the sound output is choppy. :(
<TheMuso> Where do I find the desktop effects in gutsy for GNOME?
<xxxxx1> morrrning all
<xxxxx1> :)
<siretart> hi xxxxx1 
<TheMuso> nvm, found it.
<TheMuso> thats weird. Won't let me use them on a Radeon 7500, yet in Feisty, it works fine.
<ajmitch> dri problems?
<StevenK> It's using vesa?
<ScottK> StevenK: I've now read the -devel scrollback.  Thanks for taking on the devscripts bug.
<TheMuso> dunno. Need to look.
* TheMuso needs a new keyboard...
<TheMuso> Ah ok, AGP failed to initialize, disabling DRI.
<TheMuso> Sounds like a kernel thing.
<DarkMageZ> i'm attempting to build a new package. but during the configure it bums out cause it can't find opengl. so i fed it libglu1-mesa-dev but it's still not happy. what else could it be after?
<AndyP> DarkMageZ: you might need to be more explanatory than "bums out" :)
<StevenK> libglu1-mesa-dev is not OpenGL
<StevenK> libgl1-mesa-dev is, however
<DarkMageZ> StevenK, libgl1-mesa-dev is a dependency of libglu1-mesa-dev
<DarkMageZ> AndyP, complains about no opengl and quits.
<persia> DarkMageZ: You may get a better response with a URL to a pastebin of the buildlog.
* ScottK sits back and catchs up on the news of the day now that MOTU meeting is over and notes the rich irony of a shiny new Labour Prime Minister having a mail workers strike to great him on his second day in office.
<ScottK> Just for something completely different.
* TheMuso decides to do a PowerPC test of tribe 2, as the last thing for the night, even though it isn't officially supported.
<DarkMageZ> here's what i get when i tell pbuilder to build it. http://pastebin.ca/595277
<DarkMageZ> nvm. it was after glut3
<ScottK> The ubuntu-clamav team is created if anyone is motivated to join....
<pygi> :)
<StevenK> ScottK: Guess what?
<ScottK> Yes?
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 steven users 395K 2007-06-29 23:07 devscripts_2.10.5ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<ScottK> Cool.
<StevenK>       + Keep DISPLAY, XAUTHORITY and GNOME_KEYRING_SOCKET environment variables around for safe keeping before we destroy the environment, and re-set them before running debsign. (LP: #78165)
<StevenK> I'm still chuckling to myself over "before we destroy the environment"
* ScottK was going to guess in the opposite direction...
<ScottK> Yes, very good.
<StevenK> ScottK: Would you be willing to test it?
<ScottK> Sure, but I need -i386 (I'll build it).
<StevenK> I'm happy to do so, I just threw it at sbuild which is amd64 only for the time being because I'm still not sure if I want to move in with it.
* ScottK will be here for roughly 45 minutes and then offline for several hours.
* persia notes that sbuild is very friendly, and using schroot with exported $DISPLAY is a handy way to test.
<StevenK> ScottK: Same, since it's 11:18pm
<StevenK> ScottK: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/devscripts_2.10.5ubuntu1_i386.deb
<ScottK> StevenK: Assuming this is good, you'll send the patch to Debian?
* ScottK downloads...
<Adri2000> StevenK: you got my patch for devscripts?
<StevenK> Adri2000: Yes, that's applied too.
<Adri2000> cool
<StevenK> Adri2000: Just don't do +++ scripts/requestsync.py.new, that irritates me because then I have to edit the patch
<Adri2000> right :)
<ScottK> StevenK: Just thought to ask this ...  This'll install OK on Feisty, right?
<StevenK> Actually, it won't.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Glad I asked.
<StevenK> Rebuilding it for Feisty, hold on.
<ScottK> OK.  Sorry I forgot to mention that.
<Adri2000> StevenK: I don't see the fix for bug #119313 in the changelog
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 119313 in devscripts "requestsync can't handle third parameter (basever) but advertises it in usage" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/119313
<StevenK> Adri2000: Right, I'll mention that.
<StevenK> ScottK: Download it again, should be fine
<ScottK> OK
<Adri2000> 16:24:07 <Adri2000> * requestsync: - Don't confirm the bug when -s (sponsorship) is passed - Giving base version as a third argument works again, thanks  Kjell Braden (LP: #119313)
<Adri2000> StevenK: you probably didn't get it, because it didn't hilight you
<ScottK-laptop> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27765/ - Urgh.
<StevenK> I can Conflict against it. :-)
<ScottK-laptop> That's a dependency of all the kde-dev stuff.
<StevenK> Like I said ... :-)
<ScottK-laptop> I'll remove it to test your fix, but ....
<StevenK> Yeah, not sure what to do about that one.
<StevenK> Let me think about it.
<persia> ScottK-laptop: That's an outstanding issue anyway (and what drove me to sbuild rather than debuild).
<StevenK> Adri2000: Changelog updated locally, thanks.
<ScottK-laptop> The fix works great with gpg-agent/pinentry-qt.
<ScottK-laptop> StevenK: Thanks.
* ScottK-laptop looks at persia to test with seahorse-agent.
<persia> StevenK: Would you mind pushing the sbuild (amd64) output to wedontsleep?  Alternately, I'll take source :)
<StevenK> persia: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/devscripts-buildlog
<persia> StevenK: Um.  My apologies - I'm painfully unclear :(  I meant the binary .deb, so I could comply with the previous request for seahorse testing.
<StevenK> Ah ha.
<StevenK> persia: It is for gutsy, is that okay?
<persia> StevenK: Sure.
<StevenK> persia: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/devscripts_2.10.5ubuntu1_amd64.deb
<persia> Just to make sure I'm testing the right thing: I should remove DEBUILD_PRESERVE_ENVVARS=DISPLAY from ~/.devscripts, build something, and see if it gets signed?
<StevenK> Well, see if it runs seahorse-agent, so yes.
<persia> Appears to work fine :)
<StevenK> Excellent.
<StevenK> Adri2000, ScottK: I'm going to ponder this kdesdk-scripts thing, so I won't upload yet.
* persia deletes ~/.devscripts as no longer useful
<StevenK> persia: Does that kdesdk-scripts versus devscripts have an LP bug?
<ScottK> StevenK: Can't you just use update-alternatives for that file?
<persia> StevenK: Not to my certain knowledge (although I haven't searched).
<StevenK> ScottK: It's one possibility. Another is to fix kdesdk-scripts.
* ScottK is pretty sure we could get Hobbsee to update kdesdk-scripts for U/A.
<ScottK> Is it inherently broken?
<ScottK> Is there a valid reason for it to have it too?
* ScottK has no idea.
<StevenK> Depends if they're different.
<StevenK> At this point, I need to investigate further.
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks for the fix.
<dholbach> Can somebody please confirm that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMenuHeader is what we agreed on in the meeting?
<dholbach> I don't want to announce something wrong
<persia> dholbach: Looks right to me, but I might add both REVU days to save and update issues next week.
<dholbach> ah right, yes
<persia> s/and/any/
<dholbach> done... cheers
<persia> So, if a package on REVU was uploaded, and rejected by the archive admins, what's the policy on reuploading with fixes?  Does it need two new advocates?
* ScottK is curious too.
<persia> ScottK: We could collude :)
* ScottK is out the door in about 1 minute for a meeting.
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming you wouldnt need 2 again
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming 1 would suffice
<dholbach> yeah
<Hobbsee> seeing as the only thing that had changed was the licencing
<Hobbsee> which will go for the admin's approval again anyway
<persia> Right then.  On the strength of those responses, I'm uploading :)
<ScottK> persia: Which package?
<persia> ScottK: gizmod
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> EthanP: I'm on my way out the door, but we had the meeting already.
<ScottK> EthanP: See the ubuntu-clamav team on LP.
<EthanP> Yeah -- sorry about that
<ScottK> No problem.
<EthanP> LP?
<ScottK> Launchpad
* EthanP needs to be educated
<ScottK> EthanP: Maybe persia will educate you as I really need to be leaving. 
<EthanP> Scottk:  Right on, I think that I may have found something
<persia> EthanP: It'll be a while before the minutes are posted (I'm to bed soon), but the transcript is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<EthanP> Persia:  Awesome, thanks
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clamav in case you didn't find it.
<ScottK> Bye all.
<RainCT> btw, did my mail about Open Invaders arrive to the MOTU mailing list?
<Hobbsee> yes
<persia> RainCT: That's probably not the best place to advertise though - people on IRC tend to have more time than those only reading mail :)
<RainCT> persia: ok. saw some request there and thought I'd send it too :p
<CrummyGummy> Hi all, I have a debian deb and I want to convert it into and ubuntu deb. What is the easiest way to do this? Or is there no easy way?
<RainCT> CrummyGummy: well, they are the same
<persia> CrummyGummy: If you have a dsc, just recompile for Ubuntu.  If you only have a .deb, you can se if it works (it often doesn't).
<CrummyGummy> Thanks
<AnAnt> Hello, if I get a source package from Debian repos & build it under Ubuntu, then I found a bug, is it appropriate to report it to Debian guys ?
<AnAnt> or should it be built/installed in Debian to do so ?
<RainCT> AnAnt: it should be reported to Debian :)
<AnAnt> RainCT: well, I just asked at Debian, they said that I should install it under Debian first before reporting bug :)
<RainCT> AnAnt: yes, but if you didn't change anything it will probably be there (unless it's related on a dependency or something)
<AnAnt> RainCT: ok, here's what happened
<AnAnt> RainCT: I found that the problem is that it doesn't work in Feisty, but it worked in Gutsy
<RainCT> AnAnt: ah, then it's not a Debian problem
<AnAnt> RainCT: ok, thanks
<RainCT> yw
<RainCT> can some MOTU please look at Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only)?
<DaveMorris> hey guys.  Is there an official way to request for programs to be packaged and added to the repo's
<Hobbsee> file a bug, with a needs-packaging tag
<DaveMorris> under what though? 
<RainCT> DaveMorris: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
<Hobbsee> ubuntu
<DaveMorris> thanks
<nixternal> http://livestream.fsf.org:8800
<nixternal> ya, I am spamming that :)
<nixternal> 10 more minutes until gplv3 announcement!
<sacater> peanutb: hi
<sacater> peanutb: you present?
<RainCT> nixternal: any human-readable page about what GPL3 features that GPL2 hasn't?
<nixternal> it is there somewhere...I was just looking at it the other day
<jussi01> hello all
<nixternal> hiya jussi01 
<jussi01> hey nixternal
<jsgotangco> hi
<nixternal> howdy jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hey
<Toadstool> g'morning everybody!
<nixternal> do you know if your family here got hit hard by the rains this week?
<nixternal> howdy Toadstool 
<nixternal> mornin' here as well :)
<Toadstool> heya nixternal 
<jsgotangco> nixternal: nope they're fine
<jussi01> morning Toadstool
<nixternal> oh wait, you are a little earlier than me as well
<nixternal> jsgotangco: good to hear...there was a lot of damage
<Toadstool> nixternal: yeah, 9am here
<jsgotangco> yeah i heard
<nixternal> California time! maybe one day I will live there again, but my plans seem to be taking me east now
<Toadstool> hi jussi01 
<jussi01> @now helsinki
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Helsinki: June 29 2007, 18:59:36 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 4 days
<Toadstool> nixternal: I wish I could stay longer but I have to go back to France in september :/
<nixternal> hehe, California can get addicting for sure
<Toadstool> hmm, looks like I missed yet another MOTU meeting 
<jsgotangco> how come the chicago tribune prioritized iphone coverage over taste of chicago
<jsgotangco> heh
<nixternal> money?
<RainCT> can some MOTU please look at Open Invaders (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5807, i386 only)?
<geser> RainCT: looking at Open Invaders: why do you need the libs in Build-depends?
<RainCT> geser: it isn't building without them, or?
<geser> normally you only need the -dev packages
<geser> e.g. libxext-dev depends on libxext6. so you don't need to list libxext6 in B-D
<RainCT> ah ok
<geser> installing libxext-dev will install lbxext6 and it's dependencies
<RainCT> ok let me check the build dependencies
<geser> you also don't need to list libstdc++6-4.1-dev there. it's an indirect dependency from build-essential
<RainCT> ok, that's all?
<geser> you could test if Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), autotools-dev, libdumb1-dev, libaldmb1-dev, liballegro4.2-dev, libxext-dev, docbook-to-man is enough
<geser> I did get further yet with reviewing
<geser> RainCT: drop the "A" from Description (see http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-synopsis)
* Hobbsee wonders why there's a separate .install file
<geser> RainCT: I see that you have usr/include/open-invaders in debian/dirs. Does this game install headers?
<RainCT> Hobbsee: I think that's cleaner, don't like rule files :p
<geser> RainCT: you are missing dpatch in Build-Depends
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<RainCT> geser: yes, there are header
<RainCT> s/header/headers
<RainCT> files that get installed: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27797/
<geser> does it support plugins or for what one could use the headers?
* man-di hates upstream maintainers working *against* packagers. See the red comment on http://foo2qpdl.rkkda.com/
<RainCT> geser: eh.. dunno :p
<geser> if there is no use for the headers don't put them inside the deb
<RainCT> geser: how can I do that? (that they don't get installed)
<AndyP> man-di: that's weird... doesn't the license just have a non-redistribution clause?
<man-di> no
<man-di> AndyP: its packaged for debian and synced into Ubuntu main
<geser> RainCT: one solution would be to rm the usr/include dir after calling make install in debian/rules
<man-di> I spoke with one of the debian maintainers of the driver and he said he has big problem with upstream and he needs to check each single file in the package if its allowed to be distributed
<geser> RainCT: if you are in contact with upstream you could bring to their attendtion that the FSF address in src/*cc is outdated
<AndyP> man-di: you're right, that's rather annoying
<man-di> AndyP: the bad thing is that I need a package for a printer of our company which is supported by another package from the same author
<geser> RainCT: that's all I've found
<RainCT> geser: ok thanks
<geser> np
* RainCT is trying to build with the new deps
<geser> have you also added dpatch to B-D?
<RainCT> yes
<RainCT> builded :)
<RainCT> geser: is this normal (on Feisty)? "Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libc6"
<RainCT> ok nevermind :p
<RainCT> geser: rm: cannot remove `usr/include/open-invaders/': No such file or directory
<geser> have you tried with debian/tmp/usr/include/open-invaders/ ?
<RainCT> yes, but let me try again, had put it on the wrong place :$
<RainCT> have I said I don't like rule files? lol
<RainCT> geser: no, isn't working :(
<RainCT> I've tried with debian/tmp/usr/include/open-invaders/, usr/include/open-invaders/ and debian/usr/include/open-invaders/ (why not? :P)
<geser> still the error: No such file or directory?
<RainCT> yes
<RainCT> (I put it on debian/rules just after   $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/open-invaders install)
<geser> I've only an amd64 here so I can't test the build myself
<RainCT> geser: isn't it possible to avoid those files installing in another way? like with a parameter on the ./configure or something?
<geser> you can still patch the Makefile to not install them
<pygi> o no, rproenca is back!
<RainCT> geser: how can I do this?
<rproenca> pygi: hi. :)
<rproenca> pygi: Have you already started the development of that python binding for libisofs?
<RainCT> geser: I'm thinking.. what's about set the include dir to /tmp/crap and try to delete that? lol
<pygi> rproenca, hahaha
<pygi> rproenca, did you? XD
<RainCT> geser: or would that be the same?
<rproenca> pygi: nops, I gues :P
<rproenca> *guess
<pygi> rproenca, that's bad
<geser> RainCT: as I can't test the build, I can't provide you a solution, sorry
<RainCT> geser: GOT IT :D
<RainCT> geser: $(CURDIR)/debian/open-invaders/usr/include/open-invaders/
* RainCT is uploading
<rgl> hi
<Kmos> rgl: boas
<rgl> I need to create a package for dovecot sieve plugin, but I have some doubts about it.  To build the plugin, the dovecot sources (arealy built) need to be arround... how can I make a package like this?
<pygi> rgl, build depend on dovecot-dev if something like that exists? :)
<rgl> pygi, there is no -dev pkg no :|
<rgl> pygi, so the first step is to create one? :D
<pygi> rgl, heh, no
<RainCT> geser: thanks :)
<rgl> pygi, dovecot does not really have .so files.
<pygi> rgl, got it =)
<RainCT> some MOTU please review Open Invaders http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5822 (i386 only)
<RainCT> geser: (you can't advocate if you don't try to build it, or?)
<rgl> pygi, humm, so what shold I do then? :D
<geser> RainCT: I wouldn't feel confident without a test build to advocate it
<rgl> gag!  the sieve plugin is already bundled with the package!   so sweet!
<pygi> rgl, :)
<YannDinendal> hi
<jekil> i have a trouble with cdbs, any hint? http://rafb.net/p/WsTVCK82.html
<YannDinendal> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5794 nixternal asked me to "possibly create a patch for the update and file a bug on Launchpad" because this is a new version of an existing package
<YannDinendal> but I don't know how to do...
<coreymon77> hi everyone
<coreymon77> is nayone here
* peanutb is here
<coreymon77> hi
<peanutb> hello
<coreymon77> im wondering how i can submit to get a program into the apt repos
<peanutb> I dont really know
<Nafallo> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Nafallo> coreymon77: ^
<coreymon77> its not really an ubuntu package
<coreymon77> and not mine either
<coreymon77> im jsut helping the person out
<coreymon77> its a podcatching program called icepodder
<coreymon77> its the continuation of the ippoder/castpodder project
<Nafallo> coreymon77: then tell him to put it on revu? :-)
<Nafallo> !info icepodder
<ubotu> Package icepodder does not exist in feisty, feisty-seveas
<Nafallo> !info icepodder gutsy
<ubotu> Package icepodder does not exist in gutsy
<coreymon77> the developer wants to get it onto the repos, but jsut hasnt had the time
<RainCT> some MOTU please review Open Invaders http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5822 (i386 only)
<ScottK> coreymon77: The odds of someone else having more time/being more motivated are low.
<coreymon77> what he means by not having enough time is that he doesnt knwo how to get it up there and is too busy with the program to look, but said that if anyone can find it out for him, he would be more than glad to do it
<ScottK> RainCT: Diff eyeballs well.  My machine I test with isn't currently up and running, so I'm not going to build it now, but it looks pretty good at a glance.
<jekil> i have a trouble with cdbs, any hint? http://rafb.net/p/WsTVCK82.html
<ScottK> Anyone who is interested in testing/packaging clamav and it's redepends for in-service Ubuntu releases, join up here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-clamav/+members
<RainCT> :)
<sommer> I'd like to help test clamav...just joined
<ScottK> Ah.  There you are.  You might want to update your LP profile to include your IRC nick.
<ScottK> sommer: What Ubuntu versions are you running?
<sommer> ScottK: Feisty, but plan to have Gutsy T2 installed this weekend.
<sommer> I'll update the nic too...thanks for the heads up
<ScottK> OK.  I approved your membership.  
<ScottK> sommer: What do you use clamav with?
<sommer> ScottK: currently using it with clamav-milter to scan internal mail.
<ScottK> OK.  That'd be good to test.  Using Sendmail or Postfix?
<sommer> ScottK: sendmail
<ScottK> Good.
<ScottK> sommer: Go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Clamav and volunteer yourself as a clamav-milter person.
<ScottK> EthanP: You too ^^^ for whatever you are using.
<EthanP> ScottK:  I was wondering -- what's the advantage of backporting ClamAV versus just rolling a new binary?
<ScottK> EthanP: Not sure what you mean?
<sommer> ScottK: will do.
<xxxxx1> bye all
<EthanP> ScottK: I read the meeting notes and it sounded like you want to backport V7's Clam package, but were suggested that the deps were seriously different.  I'm wondering, if it's that difficult, why backport?
<EthanP> ScottK: Or am I seriously misunderstanding the situation (very likely) :)
<ScottK> The clamav is Dapper and Edgy has a large number of security vulnerabilities and is effectively unsupportable.
<sommer> EthanP: could you point me in the direction of those meeting notes?  I'm feeling a little behind...heh
<EthanP> Sommer:  Sure -- give me a sec
<ScottK> So, if you want a current/useable clamav package you need at least 0.90.2.
<EthanP> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-current.html
<sommer> thanks
<ScottK> Unfortunately there are interface changes and so you can't just backport clamav without backporting updates to the stuff that uses it.
<EthanP> Right -- from the sound of it, you wanted to backport the binary.  I don't know the Ubuntu specifics all that well, but why backport when you can roll an all new binary with .90.2 -- or will it have new deps no matter what?
<EthanP> ScottK:  Nevermind -- I just re-read your least message
<ScottK> It will have new deps no matter what.  We'll backport the source and build it for the target environment.
* EthanP bonks his head
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> It's painful no matter how you slice it.
<ScottK> EthanP: Welcome to the club.
<EthanP> Now that I think about it, I had to update a whole lot of stuff to get it to build.
<EthanP> mostly development libraries, IIRC
<EthanP> Ack!  It's coming together in my head really slowly.  So you're saying that I just broke a whole bunch of apps that may use ClamAV on my production server.  ...greeeeeeeat
<ScottK> EthanP: Did you compile it directly or use an Ubuntu package from a later release?
<EthanP> Built directly from a tarball
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> EthanP: What are you runnig that uses clamav?
<EthanP> MailScanner
<ScottK> Oh, right.  Forgot about that discussion.
<ScottK> From an Ubuntu package?
<EthanP> nope -- installed from source
<sommer> ScottK: you don't like MailScanner?
<EthanP> Sommer:  It reportedly has issues with Postfix
<ScottK> sommer: Not with Postfix, no.  With other MTA's it's probably fine.
<sommer> ah
<sommer> I use it with sendmail...seems to work well.
<minghua> anyone can give some suggestions about packaging an upstream that only builds executable binaries and static library?
<ScottK> EthanP: You might want to send a test message with one of the EICAR virus test signatures in it and see if it gets detected.
<EthanP> ScottK:  Oh, I've totally tested it.  I used eicar, and then a newer (real) virus that .82 wasn't able to pick up due to the new signature format
<ScottK> sommer: With Postfix the use internal private interfaces to integrate and they don't get it right.  They lose mail.
<ScottK> EthanP: Then you're likely OK.  If you installed a current mailscanner and a current clamav, it's probably fine.  This is the kind of thing I want this team to test out.
<EthanP> (I used "Trojan.Small-2631")
<ScottK> If it finds any of them, it'll find all of them.
<EthanP> ScottK: I still need to update MailScanner
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> EthanP: You need to look into amavisd-new is what you need to do....
<ScottK> ;-)
<EthanP> Yeah, I looked at that.  I may do it, but will update MailScanner from source in the meantime.
<ScottK> OK.  It's your mail to lose in the meantime.
* ScottK would like to find someone to test Gutsy's clamsmtp.
<EthanP> I have never had a problem with ti dropping mail
<ScottK> It's not frequent.  It comes up about once a month on postfix-users.
<EthanP> So it *does* happen.  It sounded like it was only likely to happen if the postfix API changed
<EthanP> (maybe, once again, I didn't read carefully enough)
<ScottK> It definitely happens when the Postfix API changes (lots) it happens rarely otherwise, but happens.
<EthanP> Isn't the Postfix API supposed to be stable?
<ScottK> As I said the other day, the fact that the Mailscanner devs absolutely do not understand the dangers of using internal private interfaces makes all their product suspect in my book.
<EthanP> aha
<ScottK> EthanP: It's the internal interfaces that are the problem 
<EthanP> So MailScanner should be using the external interfaces -- ie the mail queues?
<ScottK> The Postfix devs are VERY careful with the documentation and stability of the public interfaces.
<ScottK> Actually they use the mail queues which are internal for Postfix.  They should be using SMTP, LMTP, or a pipe to connect.
<EthanP> oic
<ScottK> Their attitude seems to be that queue file formats SHOULD be public/stable, so we are going to pretend that they are.
<ScottK> Scares the daylights out of me.
<jussi01> arrrggh... pink...
<EthanP> Yeah -- all of my shell scripts work with around MailScanner too -- using the internal queues
* EthanP ducks
<ScottK> As I said, your mail to lose if you mess it up.
* EthanP nods
<ScottK> The only issue that comes up more often is Cisco Pix SMTP fixup.
<EthanP> Now, if I only had time to set up AMAVIS.
<EthanP> Oh great, we're behind a PIX 515.
<ScottK> Just turn the effing SMTP fixup off.  Even if it worked, you wouldn't need it.
<jerome_> ScottK: if it builds under feisty it's enough , or I should also test for gutsy ?
<ScottK> jerome_: Which?
<EthanP> FWIW, we move 10K messages a day across this server and (AFAIK) have not dropped a single one.  But ima look into what it will take to build a good AMAVIS and build a plan for when I get back from vacation.  I'll also look at our PIX config and see if SMTP fixup is on.  I don't think that it is.
<ScottK> SMTP fixup hits often enough that I think you'd know it if it was.
<jerome_> ScottK : indeed sorry, bug #78367
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78367 in mosml "extend mosml package to include optional libraries (patch included)" [Wishlist,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78367
<ScottK> jerome_: Gutsy.  We're developing for Gutsy now.
<EthanP> ScottK:  Cheers!
<ScottK> Cheers.
<jerome_> ScottK : ok
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ScottK> Hell sistpoty.
<ScottK> Err Hello.
<ScottK> Sorry.
<sistpoty> hi ScottK
<ScottK> Sticky O key.  I swear.
<sistpoty> hehe
* sistpoty tries to get used to german keyboard layout again, as we have american keyboards at uni
<sommer> ScottK: I just read through the meeting notes EthanP posted and just so I'm clear on what was decided we're going to try a backport?
<ScottK> sommer: That's the theory.
<sommer> cool sounds like a hoot...where do we start?
<ScottK> First thing is a list of WTF we need to test to find out what would be broken by a backport.
<sacater> with debdiff do you compare new to old or vv
<sacater> i can never remember
<ScottK> old.dsc new.dsc > patchname
<sommer> okay...just add the package/lib/whatever to the wiki as we find em?
<ScottK> sommer: apt-cache rdepends packagename is a good way to get started.
<sommer> heh...thanks I was just googling on how to find which packages depend on a certian package.
<ScottK> jdong: You around?
<ScottK> jdong: While we're on virus scanning, I'm gonna whine about the clamtk backport for Feisty.  The current Feisty clamtk is VERY dangerously broken because it'll run and think it's scanning, but never actually manage to find a virus.  The backport solves it....
<RainCT> what was the command to search in what package a file is?
<persia> RainCT: `dpkg -S file` or `apt-file search file`
<RainCT> thanks :)
<RainCT> good night
<nixternal> hi kids! do you like violence? wanna see me stick nine inch nails through my eyelids?
<nixternal> I just heard someone drive my house blasting that song..I haven't heard that in forever
<sacater> hey, im on a mates server for irssi, but his timezone is 8 hours behind me. Is there anyway to make the clock on my profile 8 hours forward by terminal commands
<sistpoty> gotta go to bed now... cya 
<ScottK> sacater: Add 8 to the number in your head every time you read it.
<AndyP> modulus 24 :)
<ajmitch> heh
<sacater> ScottK: :(
<AndyP> sacater: change the TZ environment variable (on etch tzselect gives you a list)
<jussi01> good morning persia!
<persia> Good evening jussi01
#ubuntu-motu 2007-06-30
<TheMuso> jbHey folks.
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> hey folks
<persia> Hey TheMuso.
<persia> TheMuso: Could I convince you to change the license on the packaging for the ubuntustudio-* stuff?  The packages look great, but I'm concerned about GPL vs. CC-BY-SA.  Is this a copy of GPL packaging, or is it yours?
<TheMuso> persia: Its not my call. I am a member of the team, and have been asked to state the deal with the licensing on their behalf. I am noexpert, so take it up with them please. If anything, I am with you on this one.
<persia> TheMuso: I ask you because you hold copyright on the packaging for the last two packages a reviewed :)
<TheMuso> Well I'd have to have another look. Which ones are they?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> But I didn't choose the license.
<TheMuso> Its just because I did packaging work on them.
<TheMuso> No actual artistic work.
<persia> TheMuso: Right.  It's only the packaging license that bothers me.  I'll get you a list in a moment.
<persia> TheMuso: My apologies.  Apparently it's only one for you: ubuntustudio-screensaver (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5764).
<TheMuso> Well I haven't even really looked that one over, but I did have a hand in the packaging.
<persia> TheMuso: It looks great to me except for " The Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Luke Yelavich and is licensed under the GPL, see above." on CC-BY-SA content.
<TheMuso> So what should it be?
<ajmitch> hey TheMuso 
<TheMuso> Hey ajmitch.
<persia> TheMuso: Almost anything else.  I'd recommend CC-BY-SA for maximum compatibility, but PubDom, X11, or BSD would all also be compatible.
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> gah I hate licenses.
<TheMuso> Always does my head in.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks :)
<TheMuso> persia: So I can get a better understanding, how is GPL and the CC-BY-SA incompatible?
<persia> TheMuso: It has something to do with the attribution.  See http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses and http://people.debian.org/~evan/ccsummary.html for opinions by people who actually understand licensing (I just search the web, and have a set of rules of thumb).
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Well how then do the ubuntustudio guys think that the other artwork packages have similar compatible licenses?
<persia> TheMuso: They followed the example of ubuntu-artwork :(
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> SO how does ubuntu-artwork get in?
<persia> TheMuso: More generally, _MMA_ and I agreed yesterday that the licensing should probably be fixed, rather than propagate the bug.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm not sure - it looks like a bug to me.
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> So its just the debian packaging thats conflicting with GPL correct?
<persia> TheMuso: Rather the debian packaging is GPL, so the combined work of the binary package cannot be distributed for upstream CC-BY-SA.
<TheMuso> Right
* TheMuso ponders whether he should just completely fix up screensaver, and re-upload to REVU.
* TheMuso doesn't want to tread on toes.
<TheMuso> Yet Toby Smithe hasn't been around alot.
<persia> TheMuso: I think that's easiest, as otherwise we need to document your approval of changing the license somehow.
<TheMuso> persia: Whats easiest?
<persia> ***TheMuso ponders whether he should just completely fix up screensaver, and re-upload to REVU.
<_MMA_> persia: Wait. So you mean to say we need to change the license on the contents and not the package?
<TheMuso> ah
<persia> _MMA_: either works, but changing the packaging license is likely easier.
<_MMA_> Yes. We cant change the contents.
<_MMA_> TheMuso: The screensaver should just be whatever the Ubuntu one is right?
<TheMuso> _MMA_: I don't know.
<_MMA_> ok
<TheMuso> I am no license expert.
<_MMA_> Well I was saying we just copy that one.
<_MMA_> I thought thats what we did anyway.
<persia> _MMA_: As far as I know, that is what you did.  I'm just picky about licenses (having had too many archive-admin rejects from things I advocated).
<minghua> I only read the IRC discussion and didn't check the packages, but I am going to jump in anyway:
<minghua> I believe the Ubuntu stance is that cc-by-sa is okay to enter archive
<minghua> but I agree with persia that cc-by-sa package with packaging licensed to GPL is definitely a no-go
<persia> minghua: Absolutely.  There's no problem with CC-BY-SA, just mixing with GPL is not OK.
<_MMA_> persia: I see. We'll probably uncover another bug. ;)
<_MMA_> (darn router)
<minghua> persia: BTW I just commented a REVU package to use the same license as upstream for packaging :-)
<persia> minghua: That's my general recommendation, although I don't have any objections to compatible licenses (e.g. CC-BY-SA content with BSD packaging).
* TheMuso ponders which way to go for screensaver
<TheMuso> and notes he doesn't have a lot of time before he has to go.
<minghua> persia: my case was LGPL upstream and GPL packaging.  I think it's ok, but I would prefer simple situations.
<persia> TheMuso: May as well go CC-BY-SA: it's the easiest choice, and makes debian/copyright nice and short.
<TheMuso> persia: ubuntustudio-default-settings is a bit of a hack, and I wish that wasn't uploaded, as I would rather do that myself.
<minghua> It's not like you're going to lose anything by changing you packaging from GPL to LGPL
<persia> minghua: Yeah.  That falls under "recommendation" rather than "advocation block" for me.
<TheMuso> I need to fix a few things in it that are against sanity.
<persia> TheMuso: Archive it and do it differently :)
<minghua> persia: Definitely.  I put it to "things should be fixed" section.
<TheMuso> persia: Yep ok.
<TheMuso> Just don't have time today and won't be able to for the next week.
<persia> TheMuso: Maybe leave a comment then.  Toby might be around, and can have a go.
<TheMuso> who uploaded it?
<TheMuso> I don't remember doing so.
<persia> TheMuso: Toby
<TheMuso> ah
<TheMuso> thought so
<persia> TheMuso: On the other hand, that one doesn't have any licensing issues :)
<TheMuso> persia: I know, as I created it from the ground up.
<TheMuso> anyway, time to go start getting ready.
<persia> TheMuso: have a good trip.
<TheMuso> persia: Thanks.
<peanutb> Is it bad if i uploaded a Multiverse package change to REVU?
<persia> peanutb: Probably not.  Is it a new upstream version?
<peanutb> upstream?
<peanutb> I just made a small change to include the logo for acidrip.
<persia> peanutb: To ask differently, is the change an upgrade, or just a patch?
<peanutb> persia, just a patch
<persia> peanutb: REVU isn't really the right place for patches.  You'll get a faster response by attaching a debdiff to the bug.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some instructions (under "Preparing New Revisions").
<persia> peanutb: Also, which package?  I'd like to archive the REVU upload.
<peanutb> ok. I didnt really read that. The debdiff is on the bug. Its called acidrip
<peanutb> Thanks for helping a stupid person such as me with this.
<persia> peanutb: No problem :)  I'm archiving the REVU upload now.  Please request sponsorship with ubuntu-universe-sponsors for this.
<peanutb> ok thanks again
<DktrKranz> we prepared a spec to provide some php5 packages which are no longer included in php5 package in main: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/php5-universe
<DktrKranz> we would like to propose this brand new package before feature freeze
<minghua> the mail sent to -devel-discuss about checksums is interesting
<DktrKranz> is it worth presenting it to some MOTU Meeting?
<persia> I don't think you need to present it at a meeting.  The spec looks straightforward (not that I know much about PHP5 packaging).  I suspect you just need REVU and uploading.
<DktrKranz> it's on REVU ready for review
<DktrKranz> but last word should be pitti's
<DktrKranz> anyway, we will be happy to start fixing packaging mistakes
<minghua> DktrKranz: so the "we have a separate php-interbase source" in php5 changelog is wrong?
<DktrKranz> minghua, yes
<DktrKranz> (as of today)
<DktrKranz> we had in feisty
<DktrKranz> but it is no longer the case
<DktrKranz> see package-removals.
<minghua> DktrKranz: why is it dropped?
<DktrKranz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt
<DktrKranz> obsolete source package
<DktrKranz> it was uploaded but never kept synced with php5
<DktrKranz> so it was dropped
<DktrKranz> in gutsy
<minghua> I see
<DktrKranz> php5-interbase was never uploaded IIRC
<DktrKranz> php5-imap and php5-mcrypt did
<minghua> php5-interbase is in the removal list, so it should have been uploaded at least some time
<DktrKranz> probably yes, I don't remember correctly
<DktrKranz> they never reached gutsy, though
<DktrKranz> and there are several packages requiring them
<DktrKranz> so we should take it into consideration
<DktrKranz> (or at least I think so)
<minghua> DktrKranz: is the merging strategy agreed on?
<minghua> regardless the situation, I don't see much point discuss this in a MOTU meeting
<minghua> if the php5 main maintainer (I assume pitti) approves, and there are enough manpower to keep it in sync with Debian php5 source, I don't see any controversy
<DktrKranz> the major point is: how can we manage sync with php5 in main?
* persia thinks the issue is really only the resources to keep it up to date
<persia> DktrKranz: I don't think a little skew is an issue.  if you have a dedicated team, and someone uploads new versions within a couple days, it should be OK.
<DktrKranz> we can arrange it
<DktrKranz> it's not a problem
<DktrKranz> there are only few files to look at
<minghua> yeah, as long as there is a promise to keep things in sync for each alpha/beta release, I would say it's okay
<minghua> temporary version mismatch always happen
<DktrKranz> we need to coordinate with php5 maintainers in order to avoid a double php5-* if some universe depends will be dropped or promoted
<minghua> DktrKranz: it would be nice if you can clarify the status of the php5-{interbase,imap,mcrypt} packages in gutsy on the spec, though
<DktrKranz> minghua, could you explain that?
<minghua> DktrKranz: The question I asked about php5-interbase earlier.  I should be able to find answers on the spec IMO.
<siti> Hi, are there any tools (I am thinking of making one) that integrates a sane distributed source code management (git etc) with the debian packaging.  I ask this because my experience of creating debian packages is truly awful, especially modifying patches.
<DktrKranz> I'm going to add that ASAP
<persia> siti: You might be interested in svn-buildpackage and bzr-buildpackage
<siti> persia: cheers
<minghua> there is gtk-buildpackage IIRC
<minghua> git-buildpackage*
<siti> ok
<persia> Wow.  apt-cache search buildpackage shows support for quite a few VCSs.
<siti> minghua: yes, but it's not in ubuntu :(
<minghua> siti: even not in gutsy?
<siti> I will have a play on the bzr one and see if it's similar to what I was thinking :)
<siti> I will have a look on gutsy, one sec
<persia> siti: It's new in gutsy.
<siti> ok
<minghua> although I doubt those *-buildpackage things are exactly intended for the usage siti described
<minghua> (I have only looked at svn-buildpackage, though)
<siti> minghua: yeah you're right, these just build from git/bzr/* source code
<persia> siti: I may have misunderstood then.  What are you seeking to do?
<DktrKranz> well, if you could have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5701 for a first review, we can begin fixing package
<siti> what I am after is something that manages the debian/* the source code, automatic cleaning (no stupid writing rules), maintaining patches to the source code, allowing for bumping with good merging/conflict resolution
<siti> sorry I haven't expalined it to well, but do you see what I mean?
<siti> have you guys played with dpatch-edit-patch and wanted to kill it?
<minghua> siti: and you want to keep track of the git repo of upstream, right?
* minghua uses dpatch-edit-patch and is mostly happy with it
<AndyP> i've found dpatch-edit-patch quite handy
<persia> siti: Ah.  *-buildpackage allows VCS of debian/, CDBS automates a lot of the rule-writing, I actually like dpatch for maintaining patches, although some people report quilt to be better, and you might want to look at DaD for automated merging (although there are still bugs).
<siti> well, optionally would be nice, if the package does not use git then the tool could grab a new version manually
<minghua> I've heard quilt is better, too.
<AndyP> quilt is nice too, after you get your head around the stack idea ;)
<siti> well just a simple flaw in debian-edit-patch is: I am creating a patch, I edit some of source code, and I want to test it, if I try and test it the patch is screwed
<minghua> how so?
<persia> siti: Generally, packaging is encouraged of upstream releases (uscan helps automate this), but see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/CommonPackagingMistakes/ChangingTheOrigTarball for an example get-orig-source: rule that can help automate grabbing new VCS snapshots.
<siti> because by me building I made some generated files
<minghua> you are using dpatch wrong
<siti> how am I mean to use it then?
<minghua> generate a patch, then run "debian/rules patch", then test
<minghua> don't test/build/whatever in the dpatch generated temporary tree
<siti> what about all the **** packages that die after a second build?
<persia> Generally, I generate a patch, build a source package, and test build the source package.
<persia> siti: Those are bugs.
<minghua> which packages die after a second build?
<minghua> file bugs and they'll be fixed
<siti> lol
<minghua> (most likely there is already a bug filed in Debian)
<siti> why is there no automated testing of the double build problem?
<persia> siti: No, really.  There's a couple people trying to fix that for every Debian package, and if you find any new packages with the problem, it would be a great help to make sure they are reported.
<minghua> there is, currently, in Debian
<minghua> that's why I asked which packages those are
<siti> well we could make those people obsolete and free to work on decent things ;)
<siti> xkeyboard-config for one
<siti> iirc gksu/libgksu
<minghua> I don't see Debian bugs on either gksu or libgksu
<minghua> xkeyboard-config is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=424112
<ubotu> Debian bug 424112 in xkeyboard-config "xkeyboard-config: FTBFS if built twice in a row" [Important,Open]  
<siti> seriously, if I get my idea in action, I think maintaining debian packages will be twice as easy ;)
<siti> problem is no one would move to it knowing the slow debian devs ;)
<minghua> siti: I don't know what you idea is, and I honestly don't see how your VCS based build system question is related to the "fails to build twice in a row" bugs
<siti> you could automate cleaning by using a VCS
<persia> siti: What if you have local changes that you haven't yet published, and want to test?
<siti> that's where a DVCS shines :D
<minghua> then instead of publishing source packages, you need to publish a VCS repo
<minghua> not necessarily a bad idea, but I don't see it happening soon
<siti> well it's a bit different for a DVCS, and an export function to the old format would be good, although the generated patches might be strange
<AndyP> i'm pretty sure i've heard this idea before, not that i understand it fully, but i can't remember where from
<siti> AndyP: maybe in your head, because it's such a good idea ;)
<minghua> If the implementation is there, I think many people will be interested.
<siti> yeah, hopefully it's not to hard to make
<siti> and one cool advantage is upstream can just cherry pick :)
<minghua> I want to point out though, such an system can never be enforced, at least not in Debian
<minghua> especially considering there are so many VCS floating around
<siti> those rebels :p
<minghua> siti: FYI there are quite a few DDs in this channel.
<siti> yeah, I am just joking with them
<minghua> (and I am a Debian package maintainer, not DD though)
* persia points at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/no-more-source-packages
<siti> persia: thanks
<pleia2> actually I think a lot of us in here are debian package maintainers
<DktrKranz> minghua, I edited a bit the spec
<AndyP> persia: bah, you beat me to it :)
<minghua> DktrKranz: That clarified all my questions, thanks.
<DktrKranz> thanks to you :)
* minghua doesn't really like the "no more source packages" idea
* persia rather likes source packages.
<siti> minghua: have you used a DVCS?
<minghua> siti: not really.
<siti> the current package model reminds me of projects that email each other the source code ;)
<siti> ie: it's very difficult :p
<minghua> I have bzr installed and did a branch once.  I use svk regularly.  But mainly my experience is on svn.
<siti> ok
<AndyP> i'd like to try the idea just to see what it's like, but i have my reservations
<minghua> siti: well, the current model predates most DVCS, so you can't really blame that
<siti> yeah I wasn't blaming them, just saying new stuff is out that's better ;)
<minghua> the current model perhaps even predates widespread use of email now that I think about it
<persia> siti: It's somewhat like emailing patches, but there shouldn't be that many pending changes to a package (if it's broken, fix it).  Most of the interesting effects you get with DVCS are more interesting for the upstream code.
<minghua> siti: that's why I am saying if implementation is there, people will be interested
<persia> minghua: No.  Debian is post emailed patches.
<minghua> persia: I said "widespread" :-P
<minghua> although I admit source packages is not a thing end-user should worry about, so widespread email usage is probably irrelevant
<siti> but the end user is a developer in a lot of cases
<siti> ;)
<minghua> not really. especially for ubuntu
<AndyP> devs are the vocal minority
<siti> :D
* persia thinks this depends on the definition of "a lot".  The number may be thousands, but it is still less than a tenth of a percent of users.
<minghua> a lot of ubuntu users even consider "rebuild a source package" an impossible task, and prefer to download binary packages from untrusted internet sites
<minghua> which is really something I frown upon
* persia wonders why apt-get --build install isn't more popular
<AndyP> $graphical_apt_frontend doesn't support it, perhaps
<minghua> persia: perhaps because the default installation doesn't have a deb-src line in sources.list? :-)
<persia> AndyP: Yep.  That's probably it.  Hmm.  That'd be an interesting feature.
<AndyP> :)
<persia> minghua: I think that's a side effect of AndyP's note - my memory is that default Debian did include deb-src (although I last installed Debian afresh for potato, so I could very well be wrong).
<minghua> persia: They don't for sarge and etch, I'm sure.
<minghua> There is a commented off line, though.
<persia> minghua: Makes sense.
<minghua> also, apt-get --build install is not particularly a small task if you don't have build-essential and various -dev package installed
<persia> minghua: True.  Also, the dependencies can interfere with the current system if it's not done in a chroot.
<minghua> persia: I am curious.  Any examples?
<persia> minghua: Still, it's better than apt-get.org :)
<persia> minghua: "interfere" was perhaps too strong a word.  Rather, install extra unwanted software, perhaps generating extra menu items that are confusing.
<minghua> well, considering even automatix is praised a lot somewhere else, I'll refrain from complaining about apt-get.org, and just accept that I don't understand the users
<minghua> persia: yeah, extra menu items is annoying
<minghua> that's probably my main reason for not installing KDE
<minghua> (and less download for upgrade, I think)
<persia> More specifically, `dpkg --get-selections > my.selections && apt-get build-dep foo && apt-get --build install foo && sed /foo/d < my.selections | dpkg --set-selections` isn't guaranteed not to leave a footprint.
<minghua> I think dpkg --set-selctions doesn't do the actual removal of the packages?
<minghua> anyway, that line is too hard for me to digest
<persia> minghua: No, you're right.  One needs to follow up with something to actually process the removals.
<minghua> persia: and why did you removed foo from my.selections?
<persia> minghua: The whole point was to install foo.  Thinking about it, I probably wanted to add foo, rather than deleting it.
<minghua> :-)
<minghua> and you probably want to consider reinstalling foo as well
<persia> minghua: Why?  Unless I put it in a repo, won't I not get the local copy?
<persia> Alternately, skip the install: have apt do only the build, and use gdebi for the install.
<minghua> no, I mean if I already have foo installed, but it's broken (say, obsolete dependency) and can be fixed by a rebuild
<persia> minghua: Right.  So, I rebuilt it locally, and installed the local copy.  Why reinstall?
<persia> Or do you mean apt-get --build --reinstall install foo?
<minghua> but your old and new "dpkg --get-selections" list will both include foo
<minghua> and you don't want to have two "foo" lines there
<minghua> that's all I meant by "you probably want to consider..."
<persia> minghua: Ah.  In that case, since the version didn't change (no changelog update), it won't cause any issues to just leave my.selections alone.  I was thinking of the case where foo was uninstallable for some reason, and the user really wanted it.
<minghua> persia: I don't really know what "apt-get --build install" do, though
<persia> minghua: It downloads the source, calls dpkg-buildpackage, and installs the result.
<minghua> yes, yes.  I am just pointing out another user case for rebuilding a pristine source package
<persia> Right.  Now, if only there weren't so many drawbacks regarding implications to the rest of the system of having all the build-deps installed, I'd think we were close to a spec for a graphical rebuild tool :)
<minghua> persia: in that case, you also want to add "apt-get install build-essential" in your long line :-P
<persia> minghua: Doesn't apt-get build-dep foo do that as well?  Hmmm....
<minghua> I don't think so
<minghua> persia: in any case, such a tool as we just discussed will be of limited use, as most end-users want an updated/changed source package to build anyway
<persia> minghua: Yeah.  There's lots of reasons why such a tool is only for limited use.  Aside from updates, and system consistency, one needs to consider the support headaches of that many custom builds.
<minghua> I was looking at www.getdeb.net and was surprised that such effort will attract so many users and developers
<minghua> yeah, if we have such a tool, it really should change the package version number
<persia> Copyright Canonical?  Interesting.  While www.apt-get.org seemed a reasonable response to the opacity of Debian processes (especially during the long DAM freeze), I would think that Ubuntu's processes were open enough that it wouldn't be necessary.
<persia> (it = getdeb)
<minghua> well, that's why I say I was surprised
<minghua> It seems to me that site is just a pretty site that publish all REVU uploads
<Flannel> eh?  getdeb isn't copyright canonical
<persia> Flannel: Yes it is (in part).  See the bottom of the front page.
<minghua> and my cynical side thinks it probably is
<Flannel> persia: no.  Read the line again.
<Flannel>  2007 Joo Pinto - GetDeb - www.getdeb.net
<Flannel>  2007 Canonical Ltd. Ubuntu and Canonical are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd.
<persia> Flannel: If there's no Canonical input, " 2007 Canonical Ltd. " either represents an assignment or a misattribution.
<Hobbsee> well, the trademarks are ubuntu's i suspect
<Flannel> persia: I believe that's a "Ubuntu and Canonical are C Canonical"
<persia> 
<AndyP> it's certainly ambiguous
<Flannel> Right.  But he's not up on the legalities, apparently.
<Flannel> http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=getdeb&tld=net
<minghua> maybe they took some website design?
<persia> Flannel: Ah.  That's not quite accurate.  I suspect "Ubuntu and Canonical are trademarks of Canonical Ltd." would mean that.
<Flannel> it's certainly not owned by C
<gouki> getdeb.net is owned by a guy on my LoCo Team
<persia> gouki: Ah.  You might mention the copyright attribution then.  It may not be correct (although this does not represent legal advice).
<gouki> persia: yeah, sure thing. I'll talk to him ASAP!
<persia> Sorry for the delay.  Any comments on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-06-30 before I officially publish?
* ajmitch wonders if freenode is breaking again
<persia> It might just be a persistent client.
<ajmitch> well there were several people that dropped offline with excess flood
<persia> Right.  But only one seems to be continually bouncing.
<ajmitch> yep
<persia> So, in the absence of criticism, I'm publishing the minutes.
<Burgundavia> can I interest any MOTU is writing up a short bit on the MOTU meeting for the UWN?
<persia> Burgundavia: Can you give me an example of a previous writeup?
<Burgundavia> this would be the first
<persia> Burgundavia: OK.  What size?  What tone?  (I'm happy to draft something, but I don't know what I'd be writing).
<Burgundavia> the key bits would be mention where you need help, what the community can do
<persia> Burgundavia: OK.  So, for the recent meeting, a short paragraph covering decisions and a highlight of the upcoming events (as listed in Daniel's mail)?
<Burgundavia> basically, yep
<persia> Burgundavia: Something like http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/27901/ ?
<persia> (with line breaks) :)
<Burgundavia> persia: looks good, but I would add bits about how people can help you
<Burgundavia> remember, this is part of an outreach tool
<persia> Hmm...  I'm not so strong with community outreach.  Anyone else?
<Burgundavia> You could say: The MOTU team is looking for help with BLAH, BLAH AND BLAH. A great way to get involved is at the upcoming Hug Day at ....
<persia> Burgundavia: At issue is more that I don't have good replacements for BLAH, BLAH, and BLAH, aside from bug triage and bug patches.
<Burgundavia> what about the clamav stuff?
<persia> Burgundavia: It certainly needs resources, but those working on it need a repository to which to upload.  Depending on how PPA works, it might not be so bad (this is under investigation).
<Burgundavia> ok
<persia> Burgundavia: I think the key bits are really the HUG Day and the Q&A sessions - most REVU users will be happy to have a REVU day, but more submissions to REVU doesn't necessarily help.
<Burgundavia> cool, ok
<minghua> REVU apparently doesn't need outreach
<minghua> outreach only makes the queue longer, I suppose :-)
<minghua> Burgundavia: do you think the ordinary reader of UWN knows what MOTU is?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<persia> minghua: Depends on how you look at it.  The existence of getdeb makes me think REVU needs outreach, but I don't think we're currently staffed to handle increased volume.
<minghua> persia: True.  But I am also thinking that getdeb may have its place
<minghua> I am not very optimistic about the package qualities on getdeb
<persia> minghua: Really?  Wouldn't backports + more REVU be a cleaner solution?  That way the packages should be better quality, and users should be happier.
<minghua> persia: the key is _more_ REVU
* persia notes that the backports team backlog is also large enough
<Burgundavia> there are some things that cannot go int eh archives
<minghua> so far I don't see a clear solution to get more reviewing power
<Burgundavia> getdeb has some questionably legal stuff
<minghua> s/power/manpower/
<persia> Burgundavia: Some, but a lot of it is legal (or could be with a couple emails), but just shiny.
<minghua> yeah, the top downloads seem most in the "released yesterday" category
<Burgundavia> it looks like getdeb sucks a lot of people away
<persia> minghua: The recent revised MOTU process should get more people, and I'm hoping REVU2 will provide better workflow.  I believe part of the problem with REVU is that it's hard to know what you've already done.
<minghua> persia: maybe, I always think that REVU, or on a tangent topic, Debian, is not very good at attracting people to join and help is the high technical standard
<minghua> persia: that of course is from my limited, and most likely not typical, experience
<minghua> I've seem quite a few cases that people simply consider "reviewing all the license headers in source" and "run lintian/linda and fix the errors and warnings" an annoyance
<persia> minghua: Regarding Debian, I think part of that is that the process is fairly opaque - it's really hard to know how to get involved.  Regarding REVU, I think that a better workflow with faster responses would help: most of the contributors I've seen have been happy with the comments, so long as they come with a bit of explanation.
<minghua> s/seem/seen/
<persia> minghua: Yep.  There's lots of that.  Perhaps a more collaborative REVU - people propose packages, and others work on them until it's good.
<minghua> persia: as I said, perhaps different experience
<minghua> I don't know.  I also feel the real problem is that for a certain package, the people who are really interested in it and capable of packaging is relatively few
<minghua> input method packages are a very good example
<minghua> which is most of my experience coming from
<persia> minghua: Really?  With the exception of system infrastructure (like IMEs), I suspect that most packages could be intially constructed by a motivated user with a bit of knowledge, and made good with the help of someone more familiar with debian packaging.
<minghua> take the package I reviewed today as example, it's a science related package.  It has sit in REVU for quite a while, went though a few review cycles, but still plenty of lintian warnings.
<persia> For infrastructural things - it's rather different: there's too many things that can go wrong (like my intention to write a quick patch to make scim & anthy work for french locales :))
<minghua> persia: Science related stuff is another example.  Maybe I am always interested in the "minority market" packages. :-)
<persia> Were the lintian errors mentioned in previous reviews?
<Burgundavia> most of the stuff packaged is the latest crack or games
<minghua> no, it FTBFS in the first review
<persia> Burgundavia: Games are good, crack needs review.
<persia> minghua: For Science packages, is there anything special that can go wrong easily?  I would think the only domain-specific issue would be non-free data.
<minghua> persia: oh, for science stuff, the sticky point is that many upstreams are not very competent programmers themselves
<persia> Ah.  So there ends up being a lot of work just to get the build system working, 64-bit clean, etc.?
<minghua> so you are more likely to see hand-made makefiles, not aware of the 64bit issue, don't know how to properly build a shared library, those kind of stuff
<persia> Right.  Frustrating that, and not something easily addressed by MOTU (even with infinite MOTUs working on packages).
<StevenK> ScottK: The licensecheck bug is due to Feisty, and doesn't affect Gutsy.
<minghua> persia: Yeah.  I am just saying: I am willing to do REVU review work, and I think I am competent enough on packaging, but there is simply no package that I'm interested.
<persia> minghua: Ah.  I've only reviewed one package so far in which I'm actually interested.  For me, it's just part of the responsibilities of being listed as a reviewer.
<minghua> And when I find one, sometimes the packaging work is poor, and frustrates me.
<minghua> persia: That's why I am not in motu-reviewers team. :-P
<minghua> I have been feeling I don't really need to be an MOTU for quite some time.
<minghua> I haven't reviewed or sponsored packages since probably mid-feisty, most of my universe packages are direct sync from Debian, and I have good relationship with many MOTUs that I can easily ask for a sponsor upload.
<jmg> hey all
<nixternal> way to loud in here
<nixternal> howdy jmg 
<jmg> whoa, source for restricted modules is massive
* jmg -> beer
<jmg> where is the debian/rules file for linux-source-2.6.22?
<man-di_> jmg: apt-get source linux-source-2.6.22
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> seems like the sound problems I was having was directly due to rhythmbox
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, extra sound distortion?
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for the debuild fix and working through the checklicense question.
<ajmitch> DarkMageZ: yes
<ajmitch> and it was irritating
<jmg> ugh
<ajmitch> I was playing around with the main volume controls, didn't think to look for the little volume icon in rb
<jmg> wait
<ajmitch> far too many volume controls 
<jmg> fsck
<highvoltage> hey ajmitch, how are you?
<jmg> far too much work to get gutsy kernel on this box, but i really need it :/
<persia> ajmitch: Remember, this allows you to degrade your sound as much as you want :)  If you only had one control, you'd be stuck with the maximum available bitrates.
<ajmitch> hey highvoltage 
<ajmitch> persia: yeah, helpful
<ajmitch> so tempting to just order a new monitor
* ajmitch hugs Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey all
* Hobbsee hugs ajmitch back :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: what's up?
<jmg> O bug #117282, thou all destroying yet unconquering whale, from hells heart i stab at thee.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 117282 in linux-source-2.6.20 "2gb SD card not usable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117282
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: w.r.t?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: life, the universe & everything
<jmg> I cant even dd the fucking card under Feisty
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well,  i survived work
<jmg> er 
<Hobbsee> just
<jmg> fscking
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: yay!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah.  le sigh
<jmg> using ubuntu is breaking my social life
<ajmitch> hard day at work?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: rosters were stuffed, as usual.  but i particularly like the fact that *2* customers were bitching, at once, on different issues, while i was serving other customers entirely.
<ajmitch> that sounds like fun
<Hobbsee> oh yes
<ajmitch> I'm lucky that I rarely have to deal directly with clients
<Hobbsee> including continuing to bitch, after they'd gotten their refunds/changes/whatever else they wanted.
<ajmitch> a good exercise in patience
<Hobbsee> nah, a good exercise in keeping control of 10 things at once, and not letting the bitching customers get to you, nor get their way faster.
<ajmitch> ah, looks like gutsy-changes may be fixed to honour Changed-By again
* persia celebrates
<Hobbsee> yay!
<RainCT> Morning
<Hobbsee> hiyua
<RainCT> persia: what's on?
<persia> RainCT: ajmitch reports improvements to gutsy-changes to give appropriate credit for patches.
<RainCT> nice :). how will that work?
<persia> RainCT: It will use the name and email from Changed-By: as the From: address, rather than the name & email associated with the signature.
<ajmitch> it was only broken for a few days
<ajmitch> and I think it was using the Maintainer address, not the signature
<RainCT> and where will that be shown?
<persia> ajmitch: As usual, you're completely correct.
<persia> RainCT: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/gutsy-changes/
<ajmitch> 'as usual'?
<ajmitch> you're on crack
<jmg> grrrrr
* jmg stabs BenC with a spoon
<persia> At least in my experience.  Maybe you're only right when you correct my mistakes: I don't pay as much attention other times :)
<RainCT> I mean in what package
<jmg> wtf
<RainCT> bdmurray: ping
<DarkMageZ> ajmitch, probably http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436192
<ajmitch> yeah, I knew it was related to the gain stuff
<RainCT> if in a Debian package there's a not needed file (in /, not debian/) but it anways doesn't get installed (that file), should it be deleted on the next debdiff?
* ajmitch probably shouldn't add a "me too" there
<ajmitch> RainCT: I don't think it needs to be deleted
<ajmitch> there are plenty of files that don't get used (eg win32 build files) that you wouldn't delete
<persia> RainCT: No.  The upstream tarball should be left alone as much as possible.
<RainCT> ok, that's what I tought too :)
<RainCT> thanks
<persia> RainCT: There is a semi-exception for native packages, where the file is no longer required due to other changes, but these should ideally be handled in Debian.
<RainCT> (can someone check my comment on bug 108742?)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108742 in acidrip "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108742
<cbx33> I forget do I debuild -sa or -S?
<cbx33> or which
<cbx33> grrr
<persia> cbx33: It is a new upstream, or just a new revision?  If the former, you want -sa.  if the latter, you don't.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks
<persia> RainCT: Looks good.  A couple notes: dh_installdirs can take multiple arguments, which is sometimes cleaner.  Ideally there should be a blank line between each rule in debian/rules.  Deletions cannot be processed by the diff.gz, so the deletion of ./1 is probably OK (this may have been an error from a previous packaging).  I'm also confused by your comment on Maintainer.
<RainCT> persia: about dh_installdirs, the previous maintainers were putting one at each line, that's why I've said to do the same
<persia> RainCT: Ah.  Yes.  The rule that one attempts to mirror existing packaging as much as possible overrides the rule that one should strive for a short and easy to read debian/rules.
<RainCT> and about maintainer, in his second debdiff he changed Debian's to XSBC-O-M but did not put the Maintainer: {motu list}
<cbx33> dh_pysupport: debian/vcsfrenzy/usr/lib/python-support/vcsfrenzy doesn't contain modules for any supported python version
<cbx33> what the heck does that mean?
<cbx33> I just have some simple py files in there
<RainCT> persia: but in his first debdiff he put MOTU as Maintainer, so that's why I say that was ok
<persia> RainCT: Right.  That just wasn't clear to me from your comment.
<persia> (perhaps it will be clear to Paul, so no worries)
<cbx33> anyone got a secto help out with this python marlarky?
<RainCT> persia: what do you mean with the about the deletion of "./1"? that it won't be deleted anyways?
<persia> RainCT: Hmm.  Let me look at the package in some detail (reviewing mentoring of patching is too far removed for real understanding).
<cbx33> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~petesavage/vcs-frenzy/trunk/files/petesavage%40ubuntu.com-20070630095338-6p7c56m6x2gmlb5y
<cbx33> gives me the above error
<cbx33> what am I doing wrong :S
<persia> RainCT: ./1 was in diff.gz as a new file, and appears to be cruft from the original packaging.  Removing it is safe (it's likely the result of using 2&>1 rather than 2>&1).  On the other hand, it doesn't break anything, so removing it without changelog, and without notifying the original maintainer is not the best idea (although it's perhaps worth checking to see if this is an Ubuntu-only addition, in which case deletion is best).
<RainCT> persia: ok. thanks
<persia> RainCT: So, to restate: removing files provided in orig.tar.gz should be avoided, unless required.  Adding files in diff.gz outside debian/ should be avoided.  Fixing the latter is OK, but if the problem exists outside Ubuntu, it's better to get the fix outside Ubuntu rather than patching.
<jussi01> persia: !
<jussi01> :)
<persia> Hello jussi01
<bdmurray> RainCT: pong
<jhansonxi> Any Ubuntu Wine team members here or are they not part of MOTU?
<RainCT> bdmurray: ping? :)
<jhansonxi> pong
<bdmurray> RainCT: I'm headed out the door. What is up?
<jhansonxi> Are any Wine team members in this channel?
<jhansonxi> or is Wine not part of MOTU?
<superm1> jhansonxi, i believe the maintainer for wine is running up against the council to become part of MOTU
<superm1> i'm not sure of the handle they use though
<superm1> its saturday though, you might not find them in here today either way
<RainCT> bdmurray: just wanted to know if you have you assigned bug 118655 to you for some reason?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118655 in acidrip "control file for acidrip has wrong homepage for project" [Low,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118655
<bdmurray> RainCT: Not particularly.
<bdmurray> RainCT: Feel free to take it.
<RainCT> bdmurray: ok. (I ask because there is a patch for bug 108742 in progress and I'd like to add the fix for this to it)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 108742 in acidrip "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108742
<bdmurray> RainCT: cool, that'd be great. have you seen 118992?
<bdmurray> bug 118992
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118992 in acidrip "[gutsy]  acidrip crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118992
<bdmurray> RainCT: It broke for a while and then magically fixed itself.
<RainCT> bdmurray: no, I've just looked at the easy ones
<bdmurray> RainCT: heh, well it seems to be working now but I am worried about it getting broken again the author hasn't worked on it in quite a while afaict.
<bdmurray> RainCT: anyway gotta run thanks for catching / finding that bug
<RainCT> bdmurray: ok, good day
<RainCT> (s/day/afternoon :p)
<siretart> anyone able to upload to ubuntu around and can test something for me?
<ScottK> Upload to universe ...
<ScottK> siretart: Is that sufficient?
<siretart> sure
<siretart> I'm trying to upload g-wrap, but I don't get any response
<siretart> as in ANY response
<ScottK> OK.  Want me to try to upload it?
<siretart> I've done other uploads in the mean time, which did get accepted
<siretart> yes, that would be very kind
<siretart> ScottK: http://paste.debian.net/31714
* ScottK looks
<siretart> that's the debdiff I wanted to upload
<ScottK> OK.  I'm just getting my brain fired up here, so it'll be a few minutes.
<hugelmopf> is the sync request process (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess) also applyable for packages which are completely new in debian unstable (and not in ubuntu yet), or only for ones which have a newer version then the existing one?
* ScottK was at the airport until 4AM last night waiting for someone to get out of customs/immigration.
<ScottK> hugelmopf: New packages too, but you need to say that in the sync request AFAIK.
<siretart> ScottK: if you prefer the debdiff per mail, I can do that
<hugelmopf> ScottK: ok, thanks. which package do i file the bug against?
<ScottK> Ubuntu
<ScottK> No package
<ScottK> siretart: No problem.
<siretart> thanks!
<hugelmopf> ScottK: thanks!
<ScottK> siretart: AFAICT you didn't do the maintainer mangling in debian/control ...
<siretart> ScottK: ah?
<ScottK> siretart: Should I change that?
<siretart> ScottK: yes please
<siretart> I still wonder if that's a reason to ignore uploads, though...
<ScottK> siretart: Just noticed you diffed the previous Ubuntu version and not the Debian version.  Sorry.
<siretart> ah, yes
* ScottK goes and tries again...
<ScottK> siretart: Uplaoded
<siretart> ScottK: and accepted?
<ScottK> siretart: I didn't get the accepted mail yet, but it said "Successfully uploaded packages."
<siretart> ScottK: same here
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I guess we wait and see then.
<siretart> StevenK: still nothing, no?
<siretart> ScottK:  still nothing, no?
<siretart> StevenK: never mind
<ScottK> siretart: Still nothing.
<siretart> gnarf. need to bug #launchpad, then..
<ScottK> siretart: Yes.  It looks like doko uploaded a new gcc about 5 minutes after I uploaded yours and it's showing up/building.
<siretart> :/
<bur[n] er> can I get help on packaging a simple pygtk app into a .deb here?
<ScottK> bur[n] er: You are in the right place.
<ScottK> Not very many people seem to around today though.
<bur[n] er> well bummer on that last point
<bur[n] er> ScottK: you familiar with packaging?  is it fairly complex?
<bur[n] er> I have this project http://code.google.com/p/gitso/
<ScottK> Yes and sometimes.
* ScottK looks
<jussi01> lol...
<jussi01> sometimes...
<bur[n] er> it consists of one .py file that could just be moved somewhere like /usr/bin and i still need to make a .desktop file
<bur[n] er> and it needs to depend on two apps in universe
<jussi01> bur[n] er: ScottK is one of the MOTU's, ie. MASTERS of the universe... 
<jussi01> :)
<ScottK> bur[n] er: The first thing I would do for your app is look into Python distutils and make a good setup.py.
<ScottK> Once you have that, doing the Debian packaging is easy.
<bur[n] er> so setup.py should do everything like moving stuff to /usr/bin, copy the .desktop somewhere, etc?
<ScottK> bur[n] er: Yes.  You will also want stuff like a changelog, COPYING file, man page, and stuff.
* bur[n] er found http://docs.python.org/dist/setup-script.html that look right?
<bur[n] er> i have a changelog
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> Which Ubuntu release are you running?
<bur[n] er> uhh... gutsy right now
<bur[n] er> but this app works on dapper on up
<ScottK> bur[n] er: OK.
<bur[n] er> is a man page just a text file?  wow, this seems like it has to be way more complex before I can make a .deb
<ScottK> What I'd suggest doing is downloading the source package for pypolicyd-spf (as in apt-get source pypolicyd-spf) and have a look at that.
<ScottK> It's slightly more complex than your package, but it has all the stuff (except the .desktop bits) that you'll need to deal with.
<bur[n] er> or I can just tell people to download my tarball and extracy the .py to run it ;)
<ScottK> bur[n] er: Yes, you can, but wouldn't it be better to get into the official repositories?
<bur[n] er> at least until another day
<bur[n] er> no it would, but I was thinking I could bang this out in 20 minutes ;)
<bur[n] er> I'm off to a concert at Red Rocks... thanks for the help though
<ScottK> bur[n] er: Additionally it's better to work within the packaging system (i.e. your own .deb is better than just using distutils).
<ScottK> bur[n] er: If you had done this a few times, you probably could.  The first time will take longer.
<bur[n] er> yeah, I'll be back sometime soon though
<ScottK> bur[n] er: If your package will work on Dapper +, you can get it into the Gutsy repostitories and then request a backport.
<ScottK> !REVU| bur[n] er
<ubotu> bur[n] er: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<bur[n] er> I'm not worried about that so much.  Even a .deb that people could double-click would be all I'm after
<ScottK> You'll want to into that.
<ScottK> You'll want to look into that to get into the repos.
<bur[n] er> exaile and pidgin are successful and they're not in the repos 
<bur[n] er> thanks again
<ScottK> bur[n] er: Once you have a proper package made up, getting it into the repos is actually quite easy.
<ScottK> exaile is in the repos.
<bur[n] er> oh
<ScottK> pigdin is in the repos for Gutsy.
<ScottK> And pigdin is just gaim which is in the repos.
<bur[n] er> ok, bad examples.  In any event, I'll be back!
<ScottK> OK.
* bur[n] er idles
<ScottK> bur[n] er: In fact, a new exaile was just uploaded today.  I'm waiting for it to build and then I'm going to try and round up people to check and see which bugs are fixed.  Do you use exaile?
<ScottK> Good $TIME_OF_DAY calc.
<jussi01> ScottK: do you know of any qt native browsers other than knoq?
<jussi01> konq even?
<ScottK> Nope.
* ScottK hasn't investigate.
<ScottK> investigated...
<jussi01> I just removed konq, an now I want to replace firefox with something native...
* ScottK actually likes konq.
<jussi01> I dont, its slow and annoying...
<tsmithe> persia has me in a twist re compatibility between gpl2 and cc-sa
<tsmithe> surely if the packaging is gpl2, and the package is cc-sa, then that is ok?
<tsmithe> (as the packaging and package do not necessarily link together)
<ScottK> tsmithe: Why not just make the packaging cc-sa?
* ScottK always just licenses the packaging with the same license as the package.
<ScottK> That way there's no confusion.
<tsmithe> ScottK, yes, that was my idea. but in the case i cannot contact the original packager, am i allowed to adopt and change the licence?
<ScottK> Ah.
<tsmithe> heh
<ScottK> No.  All you can do is license your mods to the package differently.
<tsmithe> thought so :)
<tsmithe> so that leaves me back with the original question
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> What happened to the original packager?
<tsmithe> he's not been around for a while due to personal issues, and so i've (temporarily) adopted the package[s]  for ubuntustudio so that we can get a move on :)
<tsmithe> i guess i could give it a shot and try and get his permission for a licence change
<ScottK> Who is it?
<tsmithe> "Janne Jokitalo (AstralJava) <janne.jokitalo@dnainternet.net>"
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> The simplest solution would be to ask and get permission.
<ScottK> Be sure to note that in debian/changelog.
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> i've just sent off an email
<tsmithe> i'm doing similarly for ubuntustudio-sounds' contents licence
* tsmithe grabs some chow
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<jekil> i have a trouble with cdbs, any hint? http://rafb.net/p/WsTVCK82.html please
<geser> jekil: 404 Not Found
<jekil> geser: sorry http://rafb.net/p/Lot1i329.html
<geser> jekil: it's a python software. See how other python packages use cdbs
<geser> it looks like it uses python distutils for setup and cdbs has a class for it
<ScottK> In that case it should be dead simple.
<jekil> geser: i use it
<jussi01> jekil: heres some useful docs if you dont have them already: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<ScottK> jekil: Paste your debian/rules file.
<geser> then I wonder why it looks for configure
<jekil> http://rafb.net/p/7NxyIj32.html my rules
<jekil> jussi01: i know it
<jekil> i can imagine why this search for configure
<jekil> s/can/cant/
<geser> does it also happen if you comment out the kde class?
<jekil> geser: yes
<ScottK> jekil: Not sure if if would make any difference, but you have DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM 		:= pysupport, on my packages that work, I have DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport with no spaces.
<ScottK> jekil: I'd also suggest looking at the setup.py for the program to make sure it's not doing something odd.
<jekil> ScottK: thanks. now i check
<jekil> ScottK: same error :( setup.py is clean
<jekil> i think the error is raised from cdbs
<RainCT> a little off-topic question if you allow me. if I'm doing a Python application, and want to provide a script to install, uninstall and purge, what is better? create a custom script or can/should that be done with a makefile?
<Kmos> RainCT: makefile i think
<Kmos> do the autoclean stuff
<Kmos> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-01
<RainCT> Kmos: ok will have a look at it then yesterday
<mr_pouit> geser: Debian #429971 (for gambas)
<ubotu> Debian bug 429971 in gambas "gambas: Please remove postgresql-dev from your build-depends as it doesn't exist in the archive" [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/429971
<mr_pouit> it seems it doesn't need a merge anymore
<geser> argh, ftp.debian.org is still outdated. I looked in the old diff.gz
<geser> mr_pouit: thanks for notifing my, I've updated the bug now
<RainCT> good night
<porthose> Hey MOTU's could you please take a look at ampache http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5829 it is looking for it's second advocate
<LaserJock> StevenK: around?
<minghua> LaserJock: I reviewed one of the REVU packages by the guy mentioned "Science Edition" on -science list
<LaserJock> minghua: oh, good. How was it?
<minghua> It seems he doesn't run lintian on his packages.  Do you think it proper to send him a private mail encouraging him to do so?  Public mail to list?
<LaserJock> private mail is fine if you don't want to embarrass him but that's a quite common issue
<minghua> Well, the comment is public anyway, but yes, private mail is probably better.
<minghua> Basically I want to send to list so that people realize "if you want people giving serious reviews, build with pbuilder and run lintian/linda".
<minghua> At least that's my threshold for reviewing packages.
<LaserJock> makes sense
* LaserJock stabs Makefiles again
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: What'd they do now?
<LaserJock> well, I can't figure out how to write a simple one that works
<LaserJock> it's easier to just have a shell script with the g++ line :/
<StevenK> LaserJock: As soon you try to include the libxml stuff, it's no longer a simple Makefile. :-)
<LaserJock> StevenK: heh, true
<LaserJock> but you'd think it'd be a tad easier to do a Makefile than do it with one long line in the shell
<LaserJock> but no
<LaserJock> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/28031/ is my latest attempt, with error
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if I need to add -c to the %.o rule
<Fujitsu> I know, you should use... SCons!
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ummm ... no thanks
<StevenK> There's a good reason for that error.
<StevenK> You don't pass any .c file to gcc!
<Fujitsu> Shouldn't the linking not be done in %.o, also?
<LaserJock> StevenK: ohh heck, the $^
<LaserJock> wahoo!
<LaserJock> the universe make sense again
<StevenK> I managed to explain makefiles in a way that made sense?
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> better than what I found googling anyway
<StevenK> I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be insulted or not. :-P
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> sweet, now I can go back to learning libxml2
<StevenK> % cat NEWS 
<StevenK> No news is good news!
* StevenK smirks
* Fujitsu hopes this Feisty upgrade will go smoothly... It's been upgrading through Hoary->Breezy->Dapper->Edgy already.
<Fujitsu> *upgraded
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-23
<kostmo> it looks like there are only symbolic links in the /usr/bin directory - no subdirectories
<kostmo> aside from the executable files, of course
<RAOF> kostmo: Your first .py file requires the second to exist before it works?
<neversfelde> do I have to run the full pbuilder procedure every time, or ist there a way to get a shorter build?
<kostmo> RAOF: that's correct
<RAOF> Then you'll need to make a rather more proper python package.  You can check out the specto package for an example.
<lifeless> neversfelde: 'ccache'
<neversfelde> lifeless: thx, I'll take a look at it
<neversfelde> ah, got it in the pbuilder howto
<directhex> neversfelde, use a chroot rather than what pbuilder does (extract a base chroot, install all build-deps every time)
<neversfelde> will try it tomorrow, gn8 now and thx for your help
<nxvl> siretart: around?
<RAOF> Hm.  Something's strange in our python/gtk stack; Miro has a broken folderchooser on Intrepid, but it works fine on Sid.
<RAOF> This may be due to havinrg 2.13.3 in Ubuntu and 2.12.10 in Sid.  Interesting.
<borschty> hi, how can i configure pbuilder to include updates from updates and proposed?
<RAOF> borschty: pbuilder login --save-after-exit (or similar), edit the appropriate files, aptitude update.
<StevenK> --save-after-login
<RAOF> Ah, right.
<RAOF> Something of that kidney.
<borschty> ah ok, thanks
<StevenK> Also, 'apt-get clean' before you logout.
<StevenK> Otherwise pbuilder happily includes /var/cache/apt/archives/* in the base tarball
<RAOF> :)
<AnAnt> Hello, when is the next sync with Debian ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: All the time?  Or, rather, when an admin next runs the autosync script, I think.
<AnAnt> gpm needs to be sync'ed , the current package in Intrepid has some issues
<RAOF> Oh?  You're one of those crazy mouse-on-the-console users?
<RAOF> :)
<AnAnt> yup
<RAOF> Have you filed a sync bug?  Is it a sync?  There are currently Ubuntu changes.
<AnAnt> what does that question "is it a sync" mean ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: Is it a sync, or a merge?  Can the current Ubuntu changes be dropped?
<RAOF> Also, what are the current bugs, and are they actually fixed in Debian?
<AnAnt> yes, gpm_1.20.4-1 & -2 fixes several bugs in Debian
<AnAnt> -2 is now in unstable
<AnAnt> as for Ubuntu changes, I dunno what is -D_GNU_SOURCE for
<AnAnt> but that Ubuntu change is not in Debian
<chubs_> Hi, I'm not entirely sure if this is the proper place to be asking this, so feel free to scream at me (or direct me to the right area). I'm trying to build a package in pbuilder against a hardy chroot, but the package requires yamp .7, which is in the intrepid repos. Even if i set the mirror to the intrepid universe it won't update the package, and I can't build it
<RAOF> AnAnt: Heh.  apt-cache showsrc gpm suggests that Debian's gpm package has been merged, but not yet built, or possibly FTBFS.
<RAOF> chubs_: You'll need an Intrepid chroot.  Alternatively, how did you set the mirror to Intrepid?  It's entirely possible that change didn't stick.
<chubs_> raof: I don't want to build it againts intrepid packages, as it's intended for use on hardy. I guess I never considered that that might be alright (would it?). Anyways i set it in the pbuilderrc and i'm positive the change has stuck
<chubs_> it gets packages from the mirror every time
<chubs_> just won't upgrade any
<RAOF> AnAnt: In fact, looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/gpm/1.20.3~pre3-3.1ubuntu1 suggests that the new gpm package FTBFS.  Feel free to fix this ;)
<AnAnt> RAOF: well, maybe they should try 1.20.4-2
<PMantis> Hi. I struggled to create a couple packages, but it works! However, when the package is upgraded, the config file is replaced w/o question. I've seen some packages ask if it should overwrite, option to diff, etc. How?
<RAOF> AnAnt: Maybe.  Again, feel free to merge ;)
<AnAnt> RAOF: I built it on hardy without any problems
<RAOF> But it (presumably) still needs the _GNU_SOURCE change.
<RAOF> Unless you know that's not needed...
<RAOF> Alternatively, ask in #ubuntu-devel.  gpm seems to be in main.
<StevenK> I daresay _GNU_SOURCE was added due to a libc change
<StevenK> (Difference in toolchain between Ubuntu and Debian)
<StevenK> PMantis: Is the config file marked as one?
<AnAnt> ah
<PMantis> StevenK: Probably not, I don't know how.
<StevenK> PMantis: If it's installed under /etc, and you're using debhelper > 5, it should be automatically
<RAOF> Anything installed under /etc should be automatically marked as a config file.
<PMantis> Hmmm Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), cdbs
<RAOF> Or, listen to the more-experienced StevenK :)
<PMantis> heh
<AnAnt> RAOF: where should I put it after merge ? REVU ?
<RAOF> You should attach the debdiff against the debian version (and possibly one against the previous Ubuntu version) to a merge bug.
<RAOF> Note that gpm doesn't seem to be up on merges.ubuntu.com; I'm not sure why this is.
<AnAnt> what does that mean ?
<RAOF> Possibly that merges.ubuntu.com hasn't been updated since gpm 1.20.4 entered Sid?
<RAOF> Possibly some other problem.  It's easier to pull merges from m.u.c; there's a bunch of stuff already done for you.
 * StevenK notices his name on 3 manual merges
<StevenK> Er, make that six :-(
<chubs_> Is it okay to build a package intended for hardy installation inside intrepid? Is it just a dependency thing or will it screw stuff up?
<chubs_> intrepid chroot*
<StevenK> chubs_: If it's intended for Hardy, build it against Hardy, otherwise you might depend on a toolchain package version that isn't in Hardy.
<chubs_> stevenk: I figured i should, just building the package requires yasm .7, which is only in the intrepid repos.
<StevenK> Which means you should start by back-porting yasm
<chubs_> I'll go off and learn how to do that. I saw a backporting section and figured it didn't apply. Thanks for the help!
<StevenK> chubs_: No trouble.
<AnAnt> 1.20.4-2 is building in PPA
<AnAnt> StevenK: _GNU_SOURCE is needed if package does not build, right ?
<StevenK> AnAnt: May be needed, it depends on the error
<AnAnt> ok
<PMantis> I'm not going to worry about the config file issue right now... but I *really* wish my apt repo was secure. When I add a Release.gpg, apt-get cannot download Release...
<bliZZardz> Hello!
<kostmo> If I have a python application that can be installed with a "setup.py" script, how can I wrap that as a .deb package?
<RAOF> kostmo: By calling 'setup.py' in debian/rules.  Or using the CDBS magic.
<kostmo> ok, I tried that, but I get a 'permission denied' when I run debuild.
<kostmo> it seems to be actually installing the python application into my system, when all I really want to do is roll the .deb package
<RAOF> Right.  So, you'd need to set the install path when using setup.py.
<AnAnt> RAOF: ok, gpm built on my PPA (https://launchpad.net/~aelmahmoudy/+archive) how do I file a merge bug for gpm ?
<kostmo> the line that gets permission denied is: copying build/lib/rocket_backend.py -> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages
<kostmo> will setting the install path via setup.py make some kind of chroot environment?
<RAOF> kostmo: Yeah, you need to set the install prefix to something that isn't system-wide.
<kostmo> ok, once I do that, is there an easy way to grab the list of files that setup.py installed and pass them to dh_install?
<RAOF> kostmo: You won't have to.  You should get setup.py to install the files to where they need to be (generally $(CURDIR)/debian/$pkgname)
<RAOF> AnAnt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Launchpad/Guide
<AnAnt> RAOF: thanks
<kostmo> ok, now I'm running this in my debian/rules: python setup.py install --prefix=`pwd`/debian/`dh_listpackages`/usr
<kostmo> and it gets past several commands after the line "running install_lib"
<TheMuso> Those backticks probably won't get properly expanded. Since debian/rules is a makefile, you probably want something like $(CURDIR)/debian/
<persia> kostmo: I suspect you want $(CWD) in place of `pwd`
<kostmo> but then it stops at this:
<kostmo> running install_data
<kostmo> creating /usr/share/pyrocket
<kostmo> error: could not create '/usr/share/pyrocket': Permission denied
<persia> or $(CURDIR) is even better :)
<persia> If you get that error, it usually means your setup.py isn't honoring your prefix request.
<kostmo> it honored it for the py_modules keyword, but not for the data_files keyword, it seems
<ScottK-laptop> Where do you tell setup.py to install it?
<ScottK-laptop> kostmo: ^^^
<kostmo> this was the line from setup.py: data_files=[('/usr/share/pyrocket', ['joystick.svg', 'pyrocket.png'])]
<kostmo> my rules file says: python setup.py install --prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/`dh_listpackages`/usr
<ScottK-laptop> kostmo: IIRC for data files in distutils /usr is assumed.  Try leaving that off.
<kostmo> what if I want the same installation behavior whether my application is installed via setup.py directly or via a .deb?
<RAOF> The same thing applies; 'python setup.py install --prefix=/foo/bar' should stick _everything_ under /foo/bar
<RAOF> kostmo: You might want to pastebin your setup.py; that's likely to help people to help you.
<kostmo> i'm going to try omitting the usr part quick
<kostmo> I'm also getting a lintian error: E: pyrocket_0.5_i386.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file hardy
<ScottK-laptop> You'll want to call it 0.5-0ubuntu1
<RAOF> You'll also want to make it arch: all rather than arch: any
<kostmo> RAOF: in my control file, it already does say Architecture: all
<kostmo> I'm not sure where that i386 is coming from
<kostmo> Here is my setup.py: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22286/
<kostmo> debuild now completes, but the files that the setup.py installed do not copy into my system when I install the .deb file
<kostmo> do I need to respecify all the files in the *.install file for dh_install?
<kostmo> and here is my debian/rules file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22289/
<nxvl> and where is the package itself?
<nxvl> already in revu?
<bliZZardz> is it necessary that i have to fix some bugs(etc) before i can apply for a team?
<nxvl> nop
<nxvl> but the administrators won't accept you if they aren't sure you are woking
<nxvl> so you need to show some work
<nxvl> and make you known
<nxvl> for example
<nxvl> i started working on the server team on my early stages
<bliZZardz> nxvl :i was looking at some bugs in Pythonista, but wasnt sure of teh fixes as most of them require some expertise in the modules
<nxvl> but i didn't get approved on the LP team until i demostrate some work on the team
<bliZZardz> i am comfortable with Python, and hence am looking at contribution on the same lines. Can you guide me to some suitable starting points?
<ScottK-laptop> bliZZardz: If you can find bugs in python packages worth fixing (you figure out the python) we will help you learn to package the fix.
<nxvl> that is quite a big horizont
<nxvl> the python guy here is ScottK-laptop
<nxvl> but it's more important to find the type of packages you want to work with
<bliZZardz> ok.
<bliZZardz> nxvl : exactly. that is where i am going berserk.
<bliZZardz> ScottK-laptop: can you give me a few good starting tips. I did not quite understand " If you can find bugs in python packages worth fixing"
<nxvl> because to be comfortable with python doesn't mean you will be comfortable with pygtk or pyqt (if it exists)
<ScottK-laptop> bliZZardz: Perhaps have a look at Bug #241352 and tell me what you think.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241352 in enthought-traits-ui "mayavi2 willnot run" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241352
<bliZZardz> ok..give me few mins - let me have a look at it
<nxvl> so you need to focus on your packages of interes
<nxvl> for example i'm also comfortable with python, but i work on C packages because im interested in server stuff
<bliZZardz> so - most of the problems are with python packaging? ultimately leading to upstreams?
<nxvl> well yes
<nxvl> we use to work with upstream a lot
<nxvl> but not always
<nxvl> so you will need to code also
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: btw, i finally started my nm process
<nxvl> :D
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Great.  You may beat me at the rate I'm going.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: my advocate will be kees, i'm really happy
<bliZZardz> nxvl, ScottK-laptop : i would be more interested in development than packaging
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: we are not far away in the list :D
<ScottK-laptop> bliZZardz: OK.  What are your interests?  KDE, Gnome, server?
<nxvl> in developing what?
<bliZZardz> ScottK-laptop : anything in python. would prefer something on server, also applications are fine.
<nxvl> heh
<ScottK-laptop> bliZZardz: Do you use KDE or Gnome?
<bliZZardz> gnome
<nxvl> so python is your new toy and you want to play with it?
<nxvl> or something like that?
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Are you writing your centralized server admin stuff in Python?
<nxvl> lucas: hi!
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: not yet
<bliZZardz> nxvl : nope. i have been doing lots of application programming, which is like lot more boring stuff. not want to build more on top of that
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i'm writing lenses now
<pwnguin> hey, if anyone's into python packaging
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: and i think augeas will have enought lenses for intrepid+1
<pwnguin> i have a fun bug
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: so i will start writing it then
<bliZZardz> pwnquin : share it, let me try
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> you will have to package a lot
<pwnguin> its fixed in debian
<nxvl> but also to write code
<nxvl> so is not so packaging oriented
<pwnguin> so a novice might be able to figure it out
<pwnguin> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gnome-games/+bug/234865
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 234865 in gnome-games "Package glchess fails to install and ask removal of gnome-games" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<pwnguin> technically, i think its part of main :/
<ScottK-laptop> Looks like python-support needs to be updated in Intrepid then.
<bliZZardz> pwnguin : am a n00b on it, but can you guide me as to how one goes on fixing it(so that i can get a flavour of it)
<pwnguin> well, this one's got a patch in debian, so you'll need to look there
<pwnguin> bliZZardz: from a packaging perspective, have you done anything like read the guide yet?
<bliZZardz> pwnguin :this one : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide ?
<pwnguin> I think so. there's also a video by dholbach
<bliZZardz> pwnguin :i went though the video - one in youtube.
<bliZZardz> let me read the guides more and ask Qs(if i have any)
<bliZZardz> quick Q -> is packaging the first step for a Ubuntero?
<pwnguin> uuh no?
<pwnguin> if i remember correctly, you just need to sign the CoC
<bliZZardz> pwnguin : CoC?
<Flannel> !coc
<ubottu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<Flannel> See also: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct
<bliZZardz> and after that?
<pwnguin> after that you live by the code?
<bliZZardz> :)
<bliZZardz> i meant - CoC -> Packaging -> and then?
<persia> bliZZardz: It's not really a direct progression.
<bliZZardz> persia : Hi. ok.. i understand that some time is required in it
<persia> There are lots of different ways to help Ubuntu.  Those participating in the community are encouraged to sign the CoC.  After that, it's best to do as much as you like.
<pwnguin> bliZZardz: we try to avoid declaring a hierarchy
<pwnguin> except maybe sabdfl
<persia> This can be packaging, it can be artwork, it can be documentation, it can be testing, it can be community work, or really anything else.
<persia> This channel mostly concentrates on packaging.
<bliZZardz> ok.
<pwnguin> there is a percieved Ubuntu developer path of Ubuntero -> Member -> Motu -> Core Dev
<bliZZardz> pwnguin : what is sabdfl ?
<pwnguin> Mark Shuttleworth
<Flannel> !sabdfl
<ubottu> Mark "sabdfl" Shuttleworth is our favourite cosmonaut, the founder of Canonical and the primary driver behind Ubuntu. You can find pieces of his thinking at http://www.markshuttleworth.com
 * pwnguin thinks the bot should know more about "Self Appointed Dictator For Life" and less about astronauts
<nxvl> sabdfl the nearest we have to a Big Boss
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl HUGS persia 
<bliZZardz> aha... bdfl and sadfl!
 * bliZZardz smiles
<pwnguin> yes
<bliZZardz> this forum has been amazing...thanks for the members patience. i will read up more and contribute to the max.
<bliZZardz> q: request for a mentor can happen only after i contribute something? I am clueless sometimes and need some experienced eyes to correct me :)
<ScottK-laptop> bliZZardz: You can ask anytime, but it's not mandatory to have one.  You can also just work with various people here in the channel.
 * ScottK-laptop thinks that is actually better because you learn more from different people.
 * bliZZardz concurs
 * bliZZardz hopes to get some nice tshirt with ubuntu on soon ;)
<ScottK-laptop> My upstream project update that I hoped to get released/uploaded to Debian prior to DIF is done and uploaded.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i have a doubt on the debian-policy
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: a package can Suggest a package outside of main?
<pwnguin> yes?
<pwnguin> afaik, universe/multiverse were enabled by default a while ago
<persia> pwnguin: It's a somewhat false perception.  While that sometimes happens, there are people who each any of those states directly
<pwnguin> persia: of course
<nxvl> i mean in debian-policy, not the ubuntu adaptation of it :P
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You mean can it suggest something non-free or contrib?
<persia> nxvl: Suggest is OK, Recommends is not OK.
<pwnguin> some of the core devs are now approved on a "dont touch the kernel" basis etc
<bliZZardz> can i suggest a package to be included?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: yep
<persia> pwnguin: There's been a couple now.  It's not just kernel.
<RAOF> pwnguin: "Self Appointed"?  "South African", right? :)
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Then what persia said.
<ScottK-laptop> Actually one of them was you may touch ONLY the kernel.
<nxvl> persia: yes, i know that Recommends, Depend and Build-Depends aren't ok, but i was unsure about Suggests
<pwnguin> hence the etc
<persia> SCottK: I suspect the policy will move back into alignment, with Recommends-by-default.
<nxvl> persia: i'm reading the new policy (3.8)
<nxvl> and i think it's post-default_Recommends
<persia> nxvl: It is.  Debian had recommends-by-default much earlier than Ubuntu.  Ubuntu currently allows main to recommend universe, but that will likely change.
<nxvl> persia: intrepid will we a nightmare
<wgrant> Is it allowed, or just not explicitly forbidden?
<persia> (unless main/universe ceases to mean anything before such a rule is implemented)
<wgrant> Which may well happen.
<persia> wgrant: It was explicitly allowed at one point, which is part of why recommends-by-default was delayed.
<wgrant> persia: Ah, I hadn't realised.
<wgrant> Is such policy actually documented anywhere?
<persia> Not as such.  There was a mailing list thread about it some long time back, and it basically reached consensus as "doesn't matter".  When recommends-by-default came in Debian, it was blocked in Ubuntu due to that consensus.
<persia> (As I remember and understand: ask someone more intimately involved with apt packaging to get a better story)
<ScottK-laptop> slangasek suggested MIRs would be required for stuff to stay recommends if it was in Universe.  Not sure if he was speaking policy or perspective.
<persia> ScottK: It's a result of the current implementation of main.  Without either an MIR or recommends-removal, it's hard to make a CD.
<persia> Whether such an implementation accurately reflects intentional policy is a different matter.
<ScottK-laptop> BTW, not all installs have Universe enabled.  It was just enabled for new installs.  Upgraders may not have it enabled.
<persia> That's not such a huge impact.  Even with recommends-by-default, apt will allow installs/upgrades cleanly (but with a different package set).
<dholbach> ggood morning
<persia> It's about how packages are selected for a CD, or for the images.
<nxvl> dholbach: guten nacht mein freund!
<dholbach> nxvl: sleep tight :)
<nxvl> i still have some time here
<nxvl> but it's funny how you wake up at the same time i go sleep
<nxvl> :D
<dholbach> :-)
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> i didn't told you (i think)
<nxvl> they confirm me the next Packaging Jam
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<nxvl> i will have a 4 hours session
<dholbach> hi geser
<dholbach> nxvl: NICE - that's great - is there a lot of excitement in your loco?
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> they are really exited about the GBJ
<dholbach> ROCK :)
 * dholbach hugs nxvl
<nxvl> so they are making me run some packaging jams to have more people be able to fix some bugs :D
 * nxvl HUGS dholbach back
<dholbach> :)
<RoAkSoAx> hi guys!! anyone know which package provides mozilla-xpcom
<nxvl> for example RoAkSoAx is in charge of running he's city GBJ
<nxvl> :D
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, still can't build after doing the patch by hand, now it shows checking for MOZILLA_COMPONENT... configure: error: Package requirements (mozilla-gtkmozembed >= 1.7 mozilla-xpcom >= 1.7) were not met:
<nxvl> using pbuilder?
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i'll do the GBJ if i get my things done by that date
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, yep
<ScottK-laptop> Debian accepted my upload, so I think it's time for me to go to sleep.
<ScottK-laptop> Good night all.
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, what could be wrong?? i'm guessing have to add a new build-dep?
<nxvl> did you merged the build-depends as i told you to do?
<RoAkSoAx> yeaaaaah
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> then dunno
<nxvl> :D
<RoAkSoAx> maybe it is because i have to make a change in the patch or maybe i missed something i'll check T.T
<RoAkSoAx> lol it built with a supposed old library
<nxvl> dholbach: i'm just going to sleep, can you please help RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> i'm going to sleep too
<RoAkSoAx> i'll take a look at it tomorrow :)
<dholbach> sleep tight RoAkSoAx and nxvl
<RoAkSoAx> thanks dholbach, have a nice day :)
<RoAkSoAx> chau nxvl
<nxvl> well good night!
<nxvl> read you tomorrow!
 * nxvl HUGS everyone
<siretart> nxvl: now im around :)
<nxvl> siretart: i'm just going
<nxvl> but
<nxvl> can you please take a look at augeas?
<nxvl> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=augeas
<nxvl> http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/sponsor-pkglist?action=details;package=augeas
<nxvl> siretart: if you have some comments on it please send me an e-mail or comment there
<nxvl> siretart: i will be really thankful if you give it a look
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> now i'm gone
<bliZZardz> ScottK: looked at Bug #241352 in enthought-traits-ui (Ubuntu) . Quite interesting.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241352 in enthought-traits-ui "mayavi2 willnot run" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241352
<bliZZardz> can someone correct me w.r.t Bug #242275 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242275 in pidgin "problem with any contacts..." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242275
<bliZZardz> ScottK, persia, pwnguin : anyone there?
<persia> bliZZardz: For myself, I'm not more likely to check an IRC channel for being pinged.  That said, I'm not the best person to answer that: you likely will find help in #ubuntu-bugs for the best way to help with triage.
<Pasteurized> hi all
<bliZZardz> Hello
<Pasteurized> I want to request a sync for Midori web broswer 0.0.18
<Pasteurized> I was building my own deb package for Hardy when a Midori dev told me to ask for a sync here
<dholbach> Pasteurized: make sure you follow the steps on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<persia> Pasteurized: Have you reviewed the Ubuntu changes, and confirmed they are no longer required?
<persia> Given our preference for not implying Ubuntu is Debian, I suspect it needs a merge, rather than a sync.
<persia> (or maybe just a backport)
<elmargol> Pasteurized, does flash work now using midori?
<Pasteurized> I didnt try yet the .18
<persia> Pasteurized: There's an .18 in intrepid (and a different one in Debian experimental).  You might want to try one of those first.
<Pasteurized> I could use the .18 Intrepid version on my hardy ?
<elmargol> no epiphany-webkit  package jet :(
<Pasteurized> Or maybe it'll better to finish my package building of v0.0.18 and install it
<persia> Pasteurized: Only if you really want.  As two other people already packaged .18, I'd think you might save yourself some effort if you used one of theirs.
<Pasteurized> ok, so now I just need to know where to find it (I was hoping to find it one getdeb.net)
<Pasteurized> find it on getdeb.net*
<persia> Pasteurized: You can get source from launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/midori
<persia> There are binaries compiled for intrepid, but they may not work if you are running hardy.
<persia> If it works for you, please request a backport so others may also share.
<persia> !backports
<ubottu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<Pasteurized> I have a dependency error (libpango1.0-0) while installing .18 on my hardy
<persia> Pasteurized: Try recompiling the source against hardy then.  That might solve it.
<Pasteurized> i'm going to try it
<amikrop> I guess dustutils' deb packages, are not "valid", right?
<amikrop> * distutils
<RAOF> amikrop: Does distutils actually have a deb target?
<amikrop> RAOF: Hmm... it seems not....
<RAOF> Heh.
<amikrop> :P
<ianm_> hi RainCT
<\sh> emgent: bug #227859 I'll take care of it when my buildds are updated
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227859 in esperanza "Please merge esperanza 0.4.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227859
<ianm_> RainCT: should screenruler be showing up in hardy at this point?
<RainCT> Hi ianm_
<RainCT> ianm_: not yet, I'm looking for someone who can upload it to Debian. Then it'll be for a while in the "NEW" queue (this can be just some days or up to a few weeks) and finally it will be in the Debian sid repos and will be copied into Intrepid's (once it's there you/me can request a backport for Hardy).
<ianm_> wow what a process :)
<persia> ianm_: There are also shorter processes, but that one is used to increase the number of users who will benefit from the new package.
<amikrop> In debian/rules, what entries are necessary?
<amikrop> I mean, which "make" entries are required?
<persia> amikrop: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
<persia> Please do include get-orig-source and patch if they have meaning for your package (non-native or patched, respectively)
<amikrop> persia: ok, thanks
<amikrop> Do I need the dh_test* commands?
<persia> amikrop: If you do.  What are you trying to accomplish, and how would the presence or absence of dh_test* help?
<RainCT> yes, dh_testdir and dh_testroot
<amikrop> persia: Alright, I understand :-)
<persia> RainCT: Those are certainly not required (although they are likely to be helpful)
<RAOF> If a package has an ubuntu revision, do we append build1 for rebuilds?
 * RAOF looks at the uninstallable monodevelop
<amikrop> Doesn't dh_clean call the clean debian/rules entry?
<RAOF> amikrop: No
<amikrop> I ask this, because I don't see $(CURDIR)/build deleted after each package generation.
<persia> RAOF: No, just bump the Ubuntu revision.  "build1" is code for "We built this too soon, and need to rebuild, but still want to sync, and Soyuz still doesn't support binary NMUs".
<RAOF> persia: Thought so.
 * RainCT would say "dh_clean is called as part of clean", but better doesn't say nothing as he only knows cdbs :)
<RainCT> s/nothing/anything
<\sh> amikrop: dh_clean is being called inside clean: target
<amikrop> ok
<Tooba1> hello. Some days ago I created a package for Debian, but I'm not finding any sponsor. What should be changed in it to try to get it uploaded in Ubuntu Universe? (Is there any useful link?) (I just joined the REVU Uploaders team)
<persia> RainCT: dh_clean can make clean: easier, but one is free to delete all the modified files differently if one prefers.
<persia> Tooba1: In 95% of cases, the change is to switch the version to -0ubuntu1, the target to intrepid, and the bug closure syntax in debian/changelog.
<RainCT> persia: yes, I know it's possible to create a package without debhelper at all, but that doesn't really make sense in most cases :)
<RainCT> imho
<persia> RainCT: Why not?
<amikrop> persia: I have this http://paste.ubuntu.com/22316/ debian/rules but $(CURDIR)/build stays on, after the generation, and I can't see why.
<Tooba1> thanks, so I'll take a look at other package for those points
<Tooba1> s/ckage/ckages
<RainCT> Tooba1: and change the Maintainer to be MOTU if the current address isn't @ubuntu.com
<wgrant> And also think very carefully about whether you want to do it.
<Tooba1> You mean, remove my address?
<RainCT> Tooba1: you can keep it in a XSBC-Original-Maintainer field
<Tooba1> ok
<RainCT> persia: well, because it's doing the same work yourself (and note the "imho" :))
<amikrop> persia: Neither $(CURDIR)/debian/files is removed (although I have removed -k from dh_clean). It seems the "clean" entry is never called :-/
<persia> RainCT: Where it is indeed the same work, I agree with you.  I can imagine a package construction where it isn't, but perhaps I'm thinking too deeply :)
 * RainCT syncs the REVU keyring
<persia> amikrop: What happens if you call debian/rules clean?
<amikrop> $ ./rules clean
<amikrop> dh_clean
<amikrop> dh_clean: cannot read debian/control: No such file or directory
<amikrop> make: *** [clean] Error 1
<RainCT> amikrop: cd .. ;)
<persia> amikrop: That would be the issue.  debian/control is definitely required.
<amikrop> persia: debian/control is present
<persia> RainCT: Is dh_clean so broken as to only work from that location?
<RainCT> persia: iirc, yes
<persia> Bah!
<amikrop> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22317/
<amikrop> persia: The logs say that the "clean" entry was called, but neither dh_clean, nor my custom "rm -fr" had any effect.
<amikrop> The logs didn't output any error message, though.
<RainCT> amikrop: it calls it *before* building, to ensure that the source is clean
<RainCT> but not afterwards
<amikrop> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22316/
<RainCT> if you want to clean-up after dpkg-buildpackage you've to execute   fakeroot debian/rules clean    manually
<amikrop> Look here, I have "clean" after "build" next to the "install" entry.
<persia> Yeah.  That would fix it.  Looks like the source isn't clean.
<amikrop> install: build clean
<persia> Could also try with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot (or debuild)
<amikrop> first "build", then "clean"
<amikrop> Did you understand what I say?
<amikrop> I mean, I think I tell it, first to build, then to clean.
<RainCT> persia: uhm.. isn't fakeroot now used by default with dpkg-buildpackage, when it's enabled?
<persia> Looking at your log, it's doing clean before build.
<RainCT> amikrop: ah I see, yes, it does it twice
<persia> RainCT: Is it?  I still see people suggest -rfakeroot (and have been using debuild alone for some time now)
<RainCT> but it's doing it before install
<RainCT> persia: from the manpage, Â«if  none  has been specified, fakeroot will be used by default, if the command is present.Â»
<persia> Aha!  That's a sane improvement.
<Tooba1> even if I'm not the maintainer, I still have to sign the package with my GPG key, right?
<RainCT> amikrop: try:    binary-indep build install clean
<RainCT> Tooba1: if you are not going to upload it to Ubuntu yourself, not really
<amikrop> RainCT: Why? In debian/rules, in the "install" entry, I have written build, and *then* clean. Why does it reverse order?
<Tooba1> I know
<Tooba1> I mean to upload to REVU
<RainCT> amikrop: like now it's doing:   build, clean, install, binary-indep
<RainCT> Tooba1: ah, indeed
<persia> amikrop: There's no requirement that make enforce dependencies in a given order.  Additionally, dpkg-buildpackage calls several rules, rather than just one.
<amikrop> The order is defined in .PHONY, you say?
<amikrop> RainCT: How can I change that order?
<RainCT> amikrop: uhm.. if you move the clean to binary-indep it woul be     build, install, clean, binary-indep     but I'm not sure if binary-indep also creates files, so it might still not work
<amikrop> OK, I will try it.
<RainCT> (in which case, if I'm not wrong, the solution would be to move the dh_* stuff from binary-indep to real-binary-indep or something and have     binary-indep: build install real-binary-indep clean)
<RainCT> btw, why do you want it to clean up automatically? I can't recall any package doing this
<persia> RainCT: Not cleaning up tends to cause the failure-to-build-twice-in-a-row bug
<amikrop> OK. What do you recommend me to do? Cleaning up automatically? Not doing so? And how to do the right thing?
<RainCT> persia: no, dpkg-buildpackage calls the 'debian/rules clean' before building
<persia> RainCT: Right.  Different definition of "automatic" :)
<amikrop> I mean, if you recommend to clean up automatically, how should I do this, and if you don't recommend to clean up automatically, where to place my clean commands, and how to act?
<RainCT> :)
<amikrop> In a word, what do you suggest?
<persia> amikrop: If you have a well defined clean: rule, the build tools should take care of it.
<persia> Drop the dependency from install:
<amikrop> The entries nect to someentry: are dependencies?
<amikrop> *next
<persia> Yes.
<amikrop> persia: And how "dependencies" work? If we have "someentry: foo bar", that means for "someentry" to work, "foo" and "bar" must be defineD?
<amikrop> * defined
<persia> Yes, and then make will ensure foo and bar are present before processing someentry (unless foo or bar are defined in .PHONY, in which case they get processed regardless of presence)
<RainCT> persia: btw, what is .PHONY for?
<persia> RainCT: .PHONY indicates to the make processor that the rule should always run, regardless of the presence of a file of that name.
<persia> When processing dependencies, make will ensure that if any dependency is updated, the rule will be rerun making the newer file, although .PHONY complicates this.
<persia> Think about the case where there is a .c file, and an executable.
<persia> The rule to make the executable depends on the .c file, and generates the executable file.
<bliZZardz> anyone lookedat Bug #242303?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242303 in firefox-3.0 "Indeterminate font selection of firefox 3.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242303
<persia> If the .c file is newer than the executable, it will be run again.  If the .c file is older than the executable, it will not be rerun.
<persia> If you add a .PHONY clean rule, it will always run clean, even if there is a file called clean in the target directory.
<amikrop> persia: So, how do you recommend to have my debian/rules file?
<persia> amikrop: I tend towards CDBS, but you've not gone that way, and I don't suggest you change now.  Just don't have install depend on clean.
<amikrop> http://paste.ubuntu.com/22324/
<amikrop> Is that alright?
<RainCT> persia: thanks for the explanation
<RainCT> amikrop: if it's a Python package, you've to make use of either dh_pycentral or dh_pysupport
<RainCT> so that they take care of byte-compilation
<amikrop> OK. What about the .PHONY? Do I really need it?
<amikrop> persia: So, you recommend CDBS? Is that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#head-3111e8aa0617da09b4fb3f0f2b1df8fa19f5d33d enough to read to get started? Will CDBS integrate well with Python's dustutils? Is it easy? Will it cover my needs? Sorry for the many questions :P
<persia> amikrop: I don't do much with python, but I believe there's a simple example in the CDBS documentation
<amikrop> * distutils
<RainCT> amikrop: with cdbs, you just have to include a file for distutils and that will do everything
<amikrop> So, you guys, recommend CDBS over manual DebHelper?
<mok0> amikrop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/CDBS
<RainCT> see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<mok0> amikrop: For simple stuff, yes
<amikrop> Okay. Thank you, all.
<persia> amikrop: Be warned: CDBS is magic.  When it works, it's nice.  When it doesn't work, it can be difficult to understand.
<amikrop> persia: Yes, from what I 've read, that is what I thought, too :(
<bliZZardz> persia : CDBS more used for Py modules?
<persia> bliZZardz: There's a wide variety of packaging methods.  Take a look at those in the Python team SVN repo
<LucidFox> Farewell, OOXML.
<LucidFox> http://osnews.com/story/19893/Microsoft:_ODF_Has_Clearly_Won
 * TheMuso is going to see if he can get the sponsors queue down to 75 or less by the time he goes to bed. Anyone care to join me to make things happen more quickly?
<bliZZardz> What is sponsors Q?
<TheMuso> bliZZardz: The sponsors queue is a team in launchpad that gets subscribed to bugs that ubuntu contributors file when they want to get a package change uploaded to Ubuntu.
<bliZZardz> TheMuso : link please
<TheMuso> bliZZardz: http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<bliZZardz> how does it work?
<TheMuso> bliZZardz: I suggest you read the links that are given on that page, to apges on the Ubuntu wiki about the sponsorship process.
<TheMuso> tjaalton: Re bug 239915, it seems that the latest Debian revision builds successfully on amd64, without needing a merge. Granted I can't test on ia64 for example, but I'm wondering whether this change is still needed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239915 in vdr-plugin-console "Please merge vdr-plugin-console 0.6.0-37 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239915
<directhex> TheMuso, honestly, who runs vdr on itanium?
<TheMuso> directhex: Yes I know, but if we can avoid an FTBFs even on an architecture that isn't officially supported, its a bonus.
<Tooba1> the list at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ should be automatically updated after uploading with dput, right?
<directhex> TheMuso, well, i don't have anything vaguely debianish on ia64, so can't help with that. want some sles rpm's building, i can see what i can do
<TheMuso> directhex: I don't really think its worth worrying about.
<siretart> tjaalton: hey, I've noticed that you seem to care and maintain the vdr packages in hardy and intrepid, is that right?
<TheMuso> Yay! 8 more merges to get below 100 in the queue!
<TheMuso> Well, some of those are bug watches, but meh.
<Nitrofurano> hi! i'm looking for people may get interested on packaging wxBasic!
<dholbach> TheMuso: we have 41 people in Ubuntu Universe Sponsors - it should be no problem to get the queue cleared :)
<TheMuso> dholbach: Should be, yes I agree. Is... Not at the moment.
<directhex> i'm waiting for a package or two to hit unstable before i can get merging dealt with
<Nitrofurano> people used to package projects using wxWidgets may be skilled enough to package wxBasic?
<directhex> TheMuso, a few packages listed on merges.ubuntu.com appear to only need syncing now. is there a proper way to mark them as no longer needing merging?
<TheMuso> directhex: Not on MoM.
<TheMuso> directhex: What is supposed to happen is that they vanish from MoM once they are synced, but MoM doesn't appear to be updating.
<Tooba1> forget my last message; now my package appears in http://revu.tauware.de, I just had given wrong dput arguments
<Nitrofurano> btw, i registered over 100 projects on launchpad.net - how can MOTU people see them and check the possibility of packaging them?
<directhex> Nitrofurano, IMHO, a very important rule of packaging is "only package things you personally use"
<TheMuso> directhex: Totally agree.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<TheMuso> Hey sistpoty|work.
<sistpoty|work> hi TheMuso
<ScottK> Nitrofurano: Most MOTU are pretty busy.  They've no shortage of stuff to work on, so if you want something packaged, the most reliable way to get that done is learn how and do it yourself.
<Nitrofurano> thanks...
<Nitrofurano> i'm having difficulties to packaging even following the usual documentation (from debian and ubuntu documentation webpages)
<Nitrofurano> the reason of some projects i registered at launchpad were projects were only available as source and i had difficulty on compiling them, as well having them officially packaged would be easier to newbies istall them, as well would make them more visible, at least from Ubuntu users...
<Nitrofurano> but the most i were using were wxBasic and sdlBasic anyway...
<Nitrofurano> Miriam Ruiz tried to start packaging sdlBasic, but she has lack of time and with some specific difficulties compiling it...
<Nitrofurano> Maybe people used to package wxWidget-based tools could help packaging wxBasic as easy, since they used to have preinstalled wxWidgets libraries, and have the experience enough, than me constantly getting frustrating on hugelly trying and getting no results...
<Nitrofurano> a goal would be if some wxWidgets-based packager would enjoy somehow wxBasic, and getting interesting on help packaging - what do you all think?
<Nitrofurano> thanks! :-D
<Nitrofurano> Personally i had some very naif experience on making .deb files from .sh scripts with 'ar' command - but the result is hugelly amateur - and my make/configure experience is completelly disastrous...
<Tooba1> I'm not a big Launchpad expert, but does it even make sense to register on Launchpad projects that 1) you don't develop 2) use none of Launchpad's features and 3) already have an official site? I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/sdlbasic/, and don't understand how it's useful.
<TheMuso> Tooba1: If it already has an official site/version control repository with code, the only real use is to store bzr branches for ubuntu-specific changes if any. Otherwise, yes IMO it is useless.
<Tooba1> sure. I'm afraid this is the second case.
<broonie> Don't the project pages get created automagically for anything with an Ubuntu package?
 * TheMuso does one merge before turning his attention elsewhere, like a meeting he is attending, then bed. :)
<TheMuso> broonie: No afaik.
<Tooba1> broonie: I think what you say applies only on apps' packages
<broonie> Interesting. There were certainly an awful lot created in that way at some point in the past.
<Tooba1> not on apps themselves
<broonie> Tooba1: I'm not sure what you mean by an "apps package"?
<broonie> Obviously, the automagic creation is based on the name it's packaged with...
<Tooba1> maybe I used the wrong words, but I mean the difference between https://bugs.launchpad.net/blender and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blender
<Tooba1> AFAIK, the first is not created automagically
<TheMuso> Ok, thats enouh for this evening. The total number of entries in the uus queue is now below 100, at least for a while.
<Tooba1> Nitrofurano: are you sure all those 100 and over projects registered on launchpad have a sense?
<sistpoty|work> excellent TheMuso!
<TheMuso> sistpoty|work: Thanks, the queue still has a fair bit of stuff left to be processed, but its size is hopefully reduced somewhat.
<sistpoty|work> :)
<broonie> Tooba1: No, the first one appears (or used to appear) all by itself too.
<mouz> can someone please nuke touchfreeze on REVU? It was intended for my PPA.
<TheMuso> mouz: Simply log into revu, and archive it. As simple as that.
<dholbach> TheMuso: THANKS for sending that mail :)
<TheMuso> dholbach: wow that was quick, np anyway.
<Tooba1> broonie: you're right. They are (were?) registered by http://launchpad.net/~registry
<Tooba1> bye
<lukehasnoname> oh my GOD Brainstorm isn't slow anymore
<Nitrofurano> all those 100 and over projects have sense, specially when i'm seeing some of them becoming packaged anyway...
<Nitrofurano> a personal project i registered there, https://launchpad.net/bitmapdump, is dependant on both sdlBasic and wxBasic - be welcome running it! :-D
<mouz> TheMuso: I don't understand: I'm logged in but I can not find the option to archive the package
<Nitrofurano> registered there also a game, depending on sdlBasic: https://launchpad.net/bwekamba
<TheMuso> mouz: Its on the index page.
<sistpoty|work> TheMuso: iirc only reviewers/admins can archive a package
<sistpoty|work> (but I'll archive it right now)
<TheMuso> sistpoty|work: Right.
<mouz> TheMuso: there is a link to archived uploads, there is a paragraph about nuking and archiving, but there is no option to do the action of archiving. I do not see it. Is a package 'accepted' (see mentioned paragraph) when it is in the list? If not: maybe I can not archive because of that?
<TheMuso> mouz: As sistpoty|work said above, only reviewers/admins can archive. I'd forgoten about that.
<wgrant> mouz: You lack the privileges to archive things. By 'accepted' it means accepted into Ubuntu.
<mouz> TheMuso, wgrant: thanks.
<sistpoty|work> mouz, TheMuso: I just nuked it
<mouz> ok :)
<huats> I am merging a package with 2 patches named 03_XXXXX and 03-XXXX (one of them is from debian the other from ubuntu). Would it be a good idea to rename the ubuntu one ?
<huats> and in the changelog, do I explain all the ubuntu changes that I drop (because added in debian or upstream) or just the remaining ones ?
<bliZZardz> hi - would be this the right forum to ask for some help w.r.t a bug. I can see the fix(or the lack of it). need some help in structuring it
<geser> huats: I'd rename the Ubuntu one, just to avoid confusions
<geser> huats: I usually only mention the remaining changes
<huats> geser: thanks geser
<huats> that was my opinion too :)
<jdstrand> zul: re bug 239129, I don't think there is a way to nominate for release just one of the several packages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 239129 in net-snmp "[CVE-2008-0960] Multiple SNMP implementations HMAC authentication spoofing" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/239129
<zul> jdstrand: gimma sec
<zul> jdstrand: dont think so
<jdstrand> zul: I am responding to the comment you made in the report
<zul> jdstrand: heh I didnt make that comment though :)
<jdstrand> oh heh, of course you didn't :)
<Kopfgeldjaeger> could somebody have a look at bug #240191 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240191 in postr "Please backport or SRU postr 0.12.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240191
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: What is the problem with the current version in Hardy?
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: It does not work because of authentication problems with flickr AFAICS.
<ScottK> OK.  To get this in as an SRU, then you need to edit the bug to include a test case.
<ScottK> Describe in detail how to demonstrate the problem and then how to test if it's fixed with the new package.
<ScottK> Assume the person doing it knows nothing about the package.
<ScottK> Add that and then ping me.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> OK
<Yannig> Hello
<Yannig> Can someone help me?
<Yannig> I'm coming here on part of Martin Pitt: there is an Occitan dictionary (myspell/hunspell) and I'd like it to be packaged for Ubuntu (in order to have it in language-support-oc).
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<dholbach> Yannig: try talking to pitti on #ubuntu-devel
<dholbach> Yannig: you could try ArneGoet1e too, although I guess he'll be asleep
<Yannig> Thanks dholbach
<emgent> TheMuso: ping
<norsetto> greetz
<jpds> even' norsetto
<norsetto> jpds: hi there
<norsetto> Can everybody please shut up for a second? I'm getting confused with all these talks.
<DktrKranz> bla bla bla
<geser> norsetto: it's so entertaining right now
<norsetto> ah, I knew you two had to keep talking :-)
 * DktrKranz hides
 * norsetto takes the bus to DktrKranz lost tiny village somewhere in Padania
<DktrKranz> we have just fog, really hard to discover
<lukehasnoname> Where is the root FTP folder by default in Ubuntu?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, if you lose yourself along the way, stop in maranello and ask Raikkonen, he will tell you
<norsetto> DktrKranz: hey, I might even get a lift ;-)
<DktrKranz> better, you will have your ride pimped :)
<devfil> DktrKranz: call Xzibit
<DktrKranz> devfil, Xzibit is for U.S. version, we should call GdV
<devfil> DktrKranz:  then call Fat Joe and Lil' Jon
<lukehasnoname> Where is the root FTP folder by default in Ubuntu?
<bdoss> If anyone has a spare moment, would they be able to take a look at this? It would be much appreciated: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22428/
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> lukehasnoname: I guess that depends on the FTP server. But maybe it's /var/ftp or so
<lukehasnoname> I realized that Ubuntu doesn't have an "official" ftp program like it does with web
<norsetto> bdoss: and what can we do about your problem?
<bdoss> norsetto: was wondering if anyone else had experienced the same problem
<directhex> lukehasnoname, nautilus
<directhex> oh, you mean server
<norsetto> bdoss: if you tell us at least the name of the package, we might be able to check
<lukehasnoname> ya, I figured out what I need to know I think
<lukehasnoname> thanks though directhex
<bdoss> norsetto: it's an internal package hosted by our department that's not kept on the main ubuntu mirrors
<directhex> then your debian/control is wrong
<norsetto> bdoss: ok, can you paste the control file? Is your archive consistent?
<ScottK> bdoss: It's hard to know exactly what the problem is without the actual package.
<bdoss> norsetto: can do, one second
<bdoss> norsetto: the problem originated when we changed the "Section" field in the debian control file
<norsetto> bdoss: so you may need to change the archive override
<bdoss> norsetto: here are the current control files, the base package first and the dependency listed second: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22432/
<bdoss> norsetto: i'm not familiar with changing the archive override, for the most part everything in the Packages and Sources file in our mirror's directory seem up to date
<ScottK> What is the exact (and complete) error you get when you try to install.
<bdoss> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22433/
<bdoss> ScottK: additionally, I have checked the incoming folder in mini-dinstall can nothing was in it
<ScottK> And you did apt-get update before the install so apt knew about the current versions of everything in the archive?
<bdoss> ScottK: yes
<norsetto> bdoss: what does apt-cache say about lcsee-mail-setup?
<ScottK> Did you look in /var/log/dpkg to see if there were any hints about it there?
<bdoss> bdoss: apt-cache policy can find the package in our repository with 500 as the pinning
<directhex> is that apt-get or aptitude?
<bdoss> err.
<bdoss> norsetto: apt-cache policy can find the package in our repository with 500 as the pinning
<norsetto> bdoss: and the correct version?
<bdoss> ScottK: I didn't think to check there, but I will next time I encounter it (going to replicate ASAP)
<bdoss> norsetto: yes
<bdoss> norsetto: everything I've looked through seem fine, and I've even searched some of the config files in the repository but could find nothing -- my gut tells me there's something wrong with our database? maybe was corrupted somehow? mini-dinstall has been failing periodically on our mirror recently
<norsetto> bdoss: I can't pinpoint any particular issue with this info, try to regenerate the whole archive, it can't make matter worse
<RoAkSoAx> asac, ping
<bdoss> norsetto: ok, thanks for the help
<lukehasnoname> Â£68 today
<norsetto> bdoss: np
<asac> RoAkSoAx: ?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, need your help :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, you merged blam the last time right?
<bdoss> ScottK: thanks for the help as well
<ScottK> Such as it was ...
<RoAkSoAx> asac, im trying to merged it fro intrepid, and i have some questions about it... in the Build-Deps you changed libxul-dev (>= 1.8) for xulrunner-1.9-dev right? the thing is that now, i updated the autotools rerun patch, but if i use xulrunner-1.9-dev instead of libxul-dev in the Build-Deps, it won't build... and it builds when using libxul-dev
<asac> RoAkSoAx: did you keep the patch (if any)?
<sebner> norsetto: ping my big bear
<RoAkSoAx> asac, i kept 10_xul1.9.patch and updated the 99_autotools_rerun.patch
<asac> RoAkSoAx: how does it fail then?
<sebner> asac: will annoy you tomorrow with a question about monodevelop =)
<norsetto> sebner: big and hairy ...
<RoAkSoAx> asac, when using xulrunner-1.9-dev in the build-deps instead of libxul it shows: checking for MOZILLA_COMPONENT... configure: error: Package requirements (mozilla-gtkmozembed >= 1.7 mozilla-xpcom >= 1.7) were not met:
<norsetto> sebner: good news I hope? Shall we call you doktor already?
<sebner> norsetto: PASSED!!! :D
<RoAkSoAx> but when using llibxul-dev (>= 1.8) it builds
<asac> RoAkSoAx: most likely the autotools rerun patch isnt right then
<norsetto> i.e. sebner sounds good
<sebner> norsetto: thanks
<sebner> norsetto: btw
<asac> RoAkSoAx: do you see libxul-embedding in the "patched" configure.in ?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: if so. look in "patched" configure and see if its in there too
<sebner> norsetto: you konw. *I* am an ubuntu contributor so don't even *think* about it that I just copy&paste the last changelog entry. have you even looked at the flightgear debdiff? I suppose no ;) I usually paste the old changelog entry so the sponsor can look at the changes exactly
<asac> sebner: whats up with monodevelop?
<asac> you gecko-cli merge missing?
<asac> gecko-cil ;)
<sebner> asac: bah, have to look closly. I'm really tired. passed today my exams aka abitur in germany ;)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, yep i see them im both
<norsetto> sebner: What are you bubbling about? what is the problem?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: post config.log
<sebner> norsetto: Your comments (flightgear). You complained about things that aren't in my debdiff ^^
<asac> sebner: congrats !
<sebner> asac: thx :D
<norsetto> sebner: and what would that be?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, asac, autotools_rerun patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22439/ ...  xul1.9 patch  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22440/
<sebner> norsetto: debian/control: we can keep the debian standards-version and also remove the relative changelog entry
<norsetto> sebner: yes?
<sebner> norsetto: remove config.sub config.guess from debdiff
<sebner> not in my debdiff ...
<asac> RoAkSoAx: config.log ;)
<norsetto> sebner: what, the config files?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, and there's no config.log (or where can i find it) ?? (im a newbie :P)
<asac> RoAkSoAx: build the package. if it fails there should be a config.log :)
<asac> either in the top level dir (next to the configure.in file) ... or otherwise run find -name config.log in the build tree ;)
<asac> there should be one
<sebner> norsetto: one of your comments was: "remove config.sub config.guess from debdiff" <-- but in my debdiff aren't that files to delete ....
<norsetto> sebner: ok, anything else?
<sebner> norsetto: I'm suprised why we now go back to debian/menu and debian/copyright because you changed that
<norsetto> sebner: yes, its not worth to keep that delta
<sebner> norsetto: ^^, you should have told me earlier :)
<norsetto> sebner: why? What is the added value of a contributor brain then?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, ok this is the error showed: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22443/ and there's no config.log generated
<sebner> norsetto: well, it's true that I'm brainless today (at least) ^^
<leleobhz> gn8 guys!
<sebner> norsetto: what's now worth keeping? the .xpm? what else?
<norsetto> sebner: just read it again tomorrow with a fresh mind
<sebner> norsetto: kay ^^
<sebner> gn8 folks =)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, the error showed is: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22443/ and there's no *.log generated
<asac> RoAkSoAx: looks wrong :)
<asac> RoAkSoAx: did you merge debian/rules too?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, nopee, this is my debian/rules: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22450/
<asac> RoAkSoAx: yeah. that should be auto discovered
<asac> cant tell if you dont find you config.log :)
<asac> my guess is still that configure or so isnt applied properly
<asac> as it doesnt try libxul-embedding-unstable ... which would be available if xulrunner-1.9-dev is installed+
<asac> and libxul-embedding-unstable comes before mozilla-gtkmozembed in configure.in for me
<asac> RoAkSoAx: go in the patches build tree and run:
<asac> ./configure --help
<asac> and paste the output
<RoAkSoAx> asac, here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22451/
<asac> RoAkSoAx: look at line 89
<asac> the autoconf rerun patch is not properly applied
<asac> or even configure.in is not properly applied
<asac> there should be libxul-embedding-unstable in the options
<asac> if you look at the xul 1.9 patch you should see that
<asac> RoAkSoAx: ok i think i see whats going on. its indeed that mozilla-gtkmozembed is tested in configure.in before libxul-... is tested
<asac> so flip that order in the xul patch ... and update autoreconf patch
<asac> e.g. move the test for mozilla to test end of the tests
<Falken> Hi, my package needs to be reviewed : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<RoAk> asac, sorry lost my inet connect for some secs, the last thing i read was <asac> if you look at the xul 1.9 patch you should see that
<RoAkSoAx> asac, in both patches that's changed
<RoAkSoAx> -  --with-mozilla[=mozilla|firefox|thunderbird|xulrunner|seamonkey]
<RoAkSoAx> +  --with-mozilla[=mozilla|firefox|thunderbird|libxul-embedding-unstable|xulrunner|seamonkey]
<RoAkSoAx> and here:
<RoAkSoAx> -	AC_HELP_STRING([--with-mozilla@<:@=mozilla|firefox|thunderbird|xulrunner|seamonkey@:>@],
<RoAkSoAx> -		       [Whether to use mozilla, firefox, thunderbird, xulrunner or seamonkey gtkmozembed (default: mozilla)]),
<RoAkSoAx> +	AC_HELP_STRING([--with-mozilla@<:@=mozilla|firefox|thunderbird|libxul-embedding-unstable|xulrunner|seamonkey@:>@],
<RoAkSoAx> +		       [Whether to use mozilla, firefox, thunderbird, libxul-embedding-unstable, xulrunner or seamonkey gtkmozembed (default: mozilla)]),
<RoAkSoAx> (sorry for flooding)
<asac> RoAkSoAx: thats all ok . the order of the tests further down is what matters
<asac> in the patch you see that firefox is tested before libxul-embedding
<asac> if you look in configure.in you will see that mozilla i even tested before
<asac> move mozilla test further down
<asac> or pass --with-mozilla=libxul-embedding-unstable to configure in debian/rules
<RoAkSoAx> asac, this one? +elif test "x$with_mozilla" != "xmozilla" -a "x$with_mozilla" != "xfirefox" -a "x$with_mozilla" != "xthunderbird"-a "x$with_mozilla" != "xxulrunner"-a "x$with_mozilla" != "xseamonkey"-a "x$with_mozilla" != "xlibxul-embedding-unstable"; then
<RoAkSoAx> i should move xlibxul-embedding-unstable before the xxulrunner?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: no before the "mozilla" even.
<asac> its mozilla that causes issues here
<asac> RoAkSoAx: better pass --with-mozilla=... as configure flag in debian/rules
<asac> moving things in configure.in is an ugly hack if you can just use --with-mozilla :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, oh so i just pass --with-mozilla=... in debian/rules and that should be good enough?
<TheMuso> emgent: Hi. What can I do for you?
<tbielawa> hey RoAkSoAx long time no talk
<RoAkSoAx> asac, so i would have to left my debian/rules like this?? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22458/ _(adding the build, is it ok??)
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, heya!! yeah pretty long time, how ya doing?
<tbielawa> RoAkSoAx, good! playing WoW is not condusive to getting MOTU things done
<RoAkSoAx> tbielawa, hahaha yeah i'm back to packaging after a Few weeks of playing NFS Pro Street and finishing my thesis :)
<asac> RoAkSoAx: if you pass just one option it could work :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, so i should just pass libxul-embedding-unstable, right?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: y
<asac> RoAkSoAx: oh. it wont work
<asac> RoAkSoAx: figure how to do that properly with CDBS
<asac> cdbs
<asac> but you dont need me for that I guess ;)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, haha yeah, but just to be sure i just need to create a new patch, patching debian/rules by adding " build: ./configure --with-mozilla=libxul-embedding-unstable "
<RoAkSoAx> right?
<asac> no
<asac> but you will find a way to add that configure option ... i am sure
<asac> hint: you never patch debian/rules
<asac> there are hundreds of packages that add configure flags through cdbs :)
<asac> look at one of the none-trivial gnome packages for instance
<RoAkSoAx> asac, oh ok :) i'll investigate then :D thank you very much for your help
<Laney> RoAkSoAx: You just need to set DEB_DH_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
<Laney> Sorry, DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, thanks :D
<rawler> can someone help me figure why pbuilder considers libqt4-opengl-dev to be "a virtual package" ?
<rawler> (for hardy)
<emgent> TheMuso: if you have time please see bug #229097+
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 229097 in ikvm "Please merge ikvm 0.34.0.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/229097
<TheMuso> emgent: Ok I'll probably get to it some time today.
<rawler> $(dpkg -L ï»¿libqt4-opengl-dev) seems to have some files installed at least, so not sure what pbuilder means by virtual?
<emgent> TheMuso: nice, thanks :)
<rawler> I've tried adding universe to the fakeroot, but that doesn't seem to have helped.. anyone's got any ideas?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-24
<RoAkSoAx> one question, in build-depends, is it ok to put like this: mono-gmcs (>= 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1) or could it just be like this: mono-gmcs (>= 1.9)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, is this ok for debian/changelog??: - debian/rules: Added configure flag to pass libxul-embedding-unstable as default
<asac> RoAkSoAx: does it work?
<RoAkSoAx> asac, yep
<RoAkSoAx> it builds
<asac> good
<asac> RoAkSoAx: yes, document remaining changes
<asac> and add that youa dd ed the configur flag to fix build-bustage :)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, is it ok like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/22463/ ???
<asac> RoAkSoAx: why not. maybe make one sentence out of the last changelog entry
<RoAkSoAx> asac, ok thank you very much for your help. i really appreciate it :D
<asac> RoAkSoAx: welcome
<asac> RoAkSoAx: are you here regularly?
<Laney> RoAkSoAx: The LP syntax should be (LP: #xxxxxx)
<asac> i am about to update gecko-sharp ... once that is done blam might need a respin or something
<asac> cannot tell for sure right now ;)
<asac> just wanted to let you know
<RoAkSoAx> asac, yeah i'm usually around... just ping me when you update gecko-sharp to check it then.. i'll wait before i suscribe it to u-u-s
<asac> RoAkSoAx: no, go ahead and get your merge in now
<asac> we can fix it once the gecko-sharp update gets in
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool then ;)
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, ok ;)
<RoAkSoAx> asac, oh btw.. would it be better to have  mono-gmcs (>= 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1) or  mono-gmcs (>= 1.9) in Build-Depends?
<asac> RoAkSoAx: depends on what the requirements are. if you need at least the 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1 package then you need to specify that
<asac> if you just need any package build from >= 1.9 upstream release
<asac> use the latter form
<RoAkSoAx> asac, the build-depends in hardy was mono-mcs (>= 1.1.17) and in debian is mono-gmcs (>= 1.2.6), so i guess i just can leave it like the newer debian... without raising it right? or it would be better to change it to >= 1.9.1
<RAOF> Unless you know that it'll fail with < 1.9, you should leave it at >= 1.2.6
<asac> RoAkSoAx: depends on whether it would build with 1.2.67 ;)
<asac> err 1.2.6
<asac> most likely thats a theoretical question
<RoAkSoAx> yeah, so i'll leave it with 1.9.1
<asac> why 1.9.1?
<asac> i'd say if you are unsure, just leave it at whatever debian maintainer says
<RoAkSoAx> asac, ok, will do, thanks :)
<RAOF> The pkg-cli-apps team is generally pretty good about that :)
<emgent> hi RAOF
<RAOF> emgent: Howdie.
<emgent> RAOF: have you time for one fast upload ?
<RAOF> emgent: Not right now, but I may later?
<emgent> ok np
<emgent> Bug #242517
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242517 in tmsnc "Stack-based buffer overflow in tmsnc CVE-2008-2828" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242517
<emgent> for intrepid it`s ready.
<emgent> i go to work for other ubuntu version
<emgent> hi persia
<rawler> ok, I've got this software I want in Ubuntu... I've registered a packaging-request (bug#242481) and created an amateurish package that seems to include the most important stuff (I.E SHOULD be basically ok to include as-is)... is there anything else I should do to ensure MOTU doesn't miss it before Intrepid?
<persia> rawler: Upload it to REVU for comments and corrections.
<persia> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<rawler> persia: ok, thanks.. will look into it..
<rawler> ok, the REVU-page tells me to ask here for keyring-sync.. someone awake with a quick-button? :)
<sommer> hey all, I was taking a look at the ldapscripts package and had a question about the debian/patches/help-options.patch file
<sommer> the file references several bin/*.patch files that aren't in the original source... should those be there?
<sommer> nm, they're in the bebian package as well... so I guess they belong :)
<rawler> oh, well.. no REVU-admin awake.. I guess I should go to sleep anyways.. see you all in the morning.. :)
<persia> rawler: I'll do a sync: sorry for being distracted
<rawler> *ahh* no probs at all.. :)
<persia> rawler: sync complete.  Try an upload...
<rawler> great! thanks.. :)
<rawler> but, ehm.. I already did an upload before, and that "worked" (as in, I was allowed to upload).. will that create problems?
<persia> rawler: Which package?
<rawler> well, it seemed to have worked anyways.. I'm in.. thanks a LOT.. :)
<rawler> btw, is REVU the same system that MOTU uses for uploads?
<ScottK> rawler: No.  MOTU upload direct to the archive.  REVU is for package review.  dput is generally what we use to upload to the archive though.
<rawler> nevermind.. i MUST go to bed.. I'll move my apartment in two days, so quite some things to do the next days..
<rawler> ok, thanks for the help.. see you!
<SpookyET> hi
<SpookyET> I find this annoying, yet useful
<SpookyET> bzr tag $(head -n 1 debian/changelog | sed -e 's/[^(]*(\([^)]*\).*/\1/')
<persia> SpookyET: You might also find the parsechangelog script useful.
<SpookyET> persia: link?
<gnomefreak> dont we have skype in repos?
<pwnguin> gnomefreak: medibuntu does
<StevenK> I didn't think it was distributable?
<gnomefreak> pwnguin: thanks
<pwnguin> cannonical might
<SpookyET> persia:  dpkg-parsechangelog | grep Version | sed 's/Version: //'
<SpookyET> A little more readable, I suppose
<SpookyET> ..
<StevenK> cut -d\  -f2
<StevenK> :-P
<SpookyET> ?
<StevenK> SpookyET: You can use 'cut -d\  -f2' instead of sed 's/Version: //'
<SpookyET> true
<crimsun_> pssht, awk '/^Version/ {print $2}'
<SpookyET> I had a fail push to launchpad. Now, I got a lock until 2:31
<SpookyET> always wanted to learn awk
<SpookyET> I suppose you can use perl and python as well
<StevenK> I was suggesting cut since it's a little more light weight than sed
<RAOF> SpookyET: You can't just bzr break-lock?
<SpookyET> RAOF: the lock is on the server
<StevenK> SpookyET: That's what break lock does
<SpookyET> did nothing
<SpookyET> bzr break-lock;bzr push
<StevenK> No, you need to provide the remote repo
<StevenK> bzr break-lock <URL>
<SpookyET> should not it use the default
<SpookyET> bzr push --remember
<SpookyET> fixed. thanks
<kgoetz> hi motus. i tried to dput a package to a ppa on LP, but forgot to specifiy a target. dput uploaded and (amidst other messages) told me: "Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com)". does this mean i've accidentally attempted to upload to ubuntu?
<kgoetz> trying again with correct config loads to ppa.launchpad.net, so i'im guessing i did. :( is there some action i need to take to de-clutter the build cue before itgets around to rejecting the upload, or just leave it be?
<ScottK> It means you tried to upload to Ubuntu.  It'll get rejected.
<ScottK> It's not a problem.  Everyone has done it.
<TheMuso> I would think that if your key wasn't in one of the keyrings, it would reject it outright, before anyone saw it in any queue.
<kgoetz> thanks both. do i wait for a rejection email, or it'll throw it out silently?
<kgoetz> oh, emails here
<kgoetz> " Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.: \o/ thank you!
<kostmo> I'm trying to get debian/rules to use my setup.py to prepare the package, but the resulting .deb will not install the python files
<kostmo> does anyone have experience rolling .deb's of python applications?
<kostmo> my setup.py: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22513/
<kostmo> and debian/rules: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22514/
<wgrant> superm1: Around?
<superm1> yeah.  wgrant
<superm1> glanced over vlc and nothing stood out, but i was holding off a response until i could more throroughly look
<wgrant> RIght, thanks.
<wgrant> It seems to work fine.
<superm1> i say push it, and if we catch something we'll fix it
<wgrant> Sounds good.
<wgrant> I'll mangle the version, as our upstream tarballs are named oddly.
<superm1> how are you going to handle that?
<wgrant> Hopefully we can fix that once they finally get around to releasing 0.9.0
<superm1> i was wondering about htat
<wgrant> I just need to throw a 'release.' before the 'e' in the Debian version.
<wgrant> And take not to merge it manually.
<wgrant> *note
<superm1> ah didn't realize you'll have rights to fix it in debian
<wgrant> No, I don't.
<wgrant> I'll just rename the tarball in Ubuntu.
<RAOF> kostmo: You should, at least, be using one of dh_pysupport or dh_pycentral
<wgrant> Until 0.9.0.
<superm1> oh okay
<wgrant> Argh. The tarballs differ, of course.
<wgrant> Damn.
<wgrant> Because of the embedded x264 and co.
<RAOF> Why is it so hard for AV guys to release and use _libraries_?
<superm1> maybe can you get siretart to change the name in debian?
<superm1> or add an epoch possibly
<wgrant> No point.
<wgrant> It'll be for a few months at most.
<superm1> RAOF, everyone goes around and adds support for their own set of patches
<superm1> it sucks
<superm1> but everyone's come to live with it
<wgrant> I'll just make the tarball 0.8.6.release.e+debian or something.
<wgrant> And hope they upload 0.8.6h at some point soon.
<wgrant> Oh blergh.
<wgrant> Ours has a +x264... at the moment, so it'll have to be +xdebian or so.
<superm1> this is getting worse and worse
<superm1> i am really starting to think epoch's sound more attractive
<wgrant> Upstream has 0.8.6h though, so this shouldn't be for long.
<wgrant> But the .release will be here for a while.
<kostmo> I am also getting a lintian error: file-in-etc-not-marked-as-conffile
<wgrant> An epoch is overkill if we just have to wait for a new minor upstream version...
<kostmo> the details of that error message don't tell you how to fix it
<wgrant> kostmo: You probably want to use CDBS' distutils support which makes debian/rules trivial.
<kostmo> I don't know much about CDBS.  Thanks, I'll look into it.
<superm1> wgrant, have you asked siretart when he is getting 0.8.6h in debian?
<wgrant> superm1: I hadn't. As it has had a number of NMUs lately, I don't think it likely it will be soon.
<superm1> wgrant, okay well just make sure you document what to do in the cases of merges/updates until 0.8.6h then i suppose in a README.Ubuntu or something
<wgrant> I've got it in the changelog.
<wgrant> As it fits in two lines, and the changelog is fairly long otherwise.
<superm1> k :)
<moosepants> Hi Masters. I am currently building a package for the new Subversion 1.5 for Hardy. When I'm done is there a repo where someone would be interested in having this put, considering it's not going to be an official upgrade path?
<nxvl> you can use ppa
<nxvl> or try to upload it to intrepid
<persia> moosepants: Which version of subversion?
<moosepants> 1.5.0
<persia> moosepants: Looks like there were still some issues with perl, Java, and ruby on Friday.  I'd probably recommend a PPA for now.
<man-di> moosepants: Debian has subversion 1.5.0 already. What dont you just sync it?
<persia> The official upgrade path is likely to be a merge with Debian 1.5.0dfsg1-1, and then a possible backport to Hardy.
<moosepants> persia: When is that likely to occur?
<persia> man-di: Are the issues that keep it in experimental resolved?  I thought the candidate was a work in progress.
<man-di> I dont know, I'm not involved in that. I just thought that its ridicolous to start another packaging of subversion
<persia> moosepants: I'm not sure of dates, but I'd suspect that the remaining issues with 1.5.0 will be resolved in the next few weeks.  That will push past DIF, but it's a sufficiently high-profile pplication as to when it gets merged.
<persia> Err.  It's a sufficiently high profile application it will likely be merged in a few weeks.
<persia> Were I you, I'd start playing with the Debian revision, and see how well it works for you, rather than duplicating the work.
<persia> man-di: That I'd agree with
<man-di> persia: I hoped so. :-)
<moosepants> Hrm. Well, we need it nowish (I have been holding off some big merges awaiting merge-tracking), so I'll have a go with the Debian version, although I'm 95% done making my own package, provided it tests OK
<persia> moosepants: You might look at the changelog for 1.4.6dfsg1-2ubuntu1: it likely has fairly clear hints about what ubuntu modifications are useful.
<RAOF> The merge is likely to be fairly awkward; I looked at merging a not-1.5 version to fix the libsvn-perl-rebuild-against-5.10 problem, and there was all sorts of fun awaiting.
<RAOF> But if you're just interested in a working svn 1.5, simply building the debian package against hardy should be reasonable.
<moosepants> RAOF: Cool, thats what I'm in the middle of now.
<dholbach> good morning
<moosepants> persia: Where did you look to see that there were issues on Friday?
<nxvl> dholbach: good $TIME_IN_YOUR_TZ
<dholbach> nxvl: and the same to you :)
<persia> moosepants: I was reading the changelog on the version uploaded to Debian experimental on Friday: indicated some issue with Java, and a couple extra patches for perl and ruby.  There is often benefit to looking at the code referenced by the changelog entry if one plans to extend it.
<\sh> moins
<moosepants> persia: Cheers, I will have a look myself. I am pretty new to the debian/ubuntu packaging world, so have little idea. Thanks anyway
<siretart> wgrant: superm1?
<siretart> morning folks!
<polo> helloooooooooo
<siretart> wgrant: if you want to work on vlc, I very much welcome you to prepare the latest upstream release as maintainer upload to debian, which I'll happily sponsor for you. xtophe, the vlc guy caring for the debian package seems to be pretty MIA and we badly need a fixed vlc in debian rather soon
<wgrant> siretart: Evening.
<wgrant> siretart: Sure, I'll see what I can do about preparing 0.8.6h tonight.
<wgrant> It has had 3 NMUs since the last MU :(
<siretart> wgrant: yeah, that's really unfortunate
<wgrant> Oh dear. It has a few bugs open.
<siretart> but it seems xtophe touched the team's svn last week
<siretart> hmmm
<siretart> vlc (0.8.6.f-1) UNRELEASED; urgency=medium
<wgrant> That's still rather prehistoric.
<siretart> hm. I see
<YokoZar> Will update manager install a (new) recommends to a package?
<persia> YokoZar: Yes, unless the user has configured it otherwise.
<YokoZar> persia: umm, how does one configure update-manager?
<wgrant> siretart: Well, it looks like he's onto it, so I won't interfere.
<siretart> he's onto it since quite some time. feel free to poke him as well ;)
<persia> YokoZar: Either fiddle with apt.conf, or use arguments to apt-get to set policy.
<persia> update-manager uses either python-apt or synaptic internally, depending on the type of upgrade.  In either case, it accepts base apt configurations, and in the synaptic case, it also follows synaptic configuration.
<dholbach> let's do some sponsoring - who's in for it? :)
 * dholbach looks at wmifs
<DktrKranz> I did some earlier, about ten bugs
 * dholbach high-fives DktrKranz :)
 * DktrKranz hugs dholbach 
 * wgrant is a bit busy trying not to strangle vlc developers.
<dholbach> wgrant: sponsoring will make you think of something else - voilÃ ! :)
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> They don't bother to release security patches, and they've recently moved to git, so the SVN revision references in the tickets on their bugtracker aren't useful to find patches :(
<DktrKranz> elegant way to say: "stop what you're doing and go processing u-u-s queue" :)
 * dholbach looks at windowlab
<wgrant> I was going to do some yesterday, but then realised I was no longer in u-u-s, so couldn't unsubscribe them.
<dholbach> wgrant: adding you
<wgrant> dholbach: Thanks.
 * dholbach hugs wgrant
<dholbach> done
<directhex> i wonder if i have anything awaiting sponsorship in universe
<directhex> just main, i think
<dholbach> at least the sync requests should be easy to ACK
<directhex> i'm awaiting a couple of packages to go into debian before sync requesting, too
<persia> Why are sync requests easier to ack than other diffs?  Oughtn't one be reviewing past Ubuntu variation?
 * persia encourages sponsoring, just doesn't understand that point.
<DktrKranz> right, syncs merges and standard debdiffs need the same attention. I'm focusing on merges/syncs right now, just to be sure to get rid of them before DIF
<wgrant> persia: It's easier to trust Debian than a Contributor. It's pretty easy to check if the diff is incorporated in Debian, not so easy to check that a Contributor diff is correct.
<dholbach> persia: I wasn't trying to say that one thing deserves more attention than another.
<persia> wgrant: I guess.  I'm more worried about useful Ubuntu variation going missing, but maybe my experience isn't typical.
<dholbach> also the description in sync requests is often more explicit
 * dholbach looks at lasso
 * dholbach looks at giftrans
 * dholbach looks at memaker
<directhex> hm, nope, i got nothin' in universe currently
<directhex> or nothing waiting, anyway
<directhex> xsp i want to see updated in debian first, but i could put out a 0ubuntu1 package if pushed
<persia> directhex: Better to wait for Debian to ensure the same orig.tar.gz,  If you want to prep a debian update candidate, ask the maintainer if help would be welcome.
<directhex> persia, done and done. he's just busy.
<directhex> i'll take a peek at monodevelop, that would be useful
<directhex> ehm, looks like it's unbuildable on intrepid right now
<highvoltage> ~
 * dholbach looks at planner
<directhex> hm, uninstallable, not unbuildable. automatic versioned dependencies are old. just needs a rebuild
<directhex> bleh! someone already did it, as a 1ubuntu2 package. stupid merge-o-matic
<directhex> that was a waste of time
<siretart> wgrant: oh, I see you uploaded a new vlc 3 hours ago. I've refreshed the patches for version 0.8.6h in the debian svn
<wgrant> siretart: I did, so we can easily merge from Debian now.
<siretart> wgrant: moreover, I think we agreed on dropping the x264 and faad copies so vlc can be promoted to universe again
<wgrant> siretart: x264 is in multiverse, and we now depend on it.
<wgrant> So unless we can promote it, vlc can't go back.
<sebner> DktrKranz: ping
<DktrKranz> sebner: 150 euros... ehm... pong
<sebner> DktrKranz: rofl
<sebner> DktrKranz: my libnxml merge. What sense does it make to keep the versioning on cdbs? I introduced it to fix gutsy backport but how big is the change that this version gets backported intrepid->hardy->gutsy?
<mok0> Hi
 * sebner winks mok0 
<mok0> Long time no see
<sebner> mok0: you or me? ^^
<mok0> me
<mok0> Long time no see me
<DktrKranz> sebner: bug number?
<sebner> DktrKranz: bug #225626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225626 in libnxml "Merge libnxml 0.18.2-3 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225626
<sebner> mok0: then welcome back ^^
<mok0> sebner: thx. Not quite back though
<mok0> sebner: working on a manuscript
<DktrKranz> sebner: current cdbs version is higher than the one you mention, but if you try to backport it in the future, you'll get FTBFS
<DktrKranz> since we keep merging clean-la.mk
<sebner> DktrKranz: for gutsy but not for hardy
<DktrKranz> what if someone wants it for dapper?
<DktrKranz> (or any supported series <= gutsy)
<sebner> DktrKranz: then we reintroduce the fix. But the chance isn't that high since no one requested a backport of the hardy version to gutsy
<DktrKranz> I agree, usually backports requests are for current stable release
<sebner> DktrKranz: so go and upload it and stop complaining :P
<DktrKranz> but I'm not a backporter, maybe you can ask them advices :)
<sebner> bah
<wgrant> siretart: Is x264 in multiverse purely due to patent concerns?
 * sebner --> lunch
 * directhex patents frivolous software patents
<Laney> dholbach: re: giftrans. Does depending on a non-existant package as part of an alternative matter?
<DktrKranz> soren: network-manager-{vpnc,openvpn} are out-of-date looking at GNOME SVN, mind if I have a look at them?
<mok0> Hmm, how do you configure terminator?
<soren> DktrKranz: Not at all. In fact, I'd be thrilled if you did. I been neglecting them big time.
<DktrKranz> soren: sure. I'll have a look (since I had some crashes with vpnc), not sure when, though.
<cbx33> hey guys
<cbx33> can someone tell me why
<soren> beacuse
<soren> gah..
<wgrant> Definitely.
<soren> because, I mean.
<cbx33> ocsinventory-server appears on http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/o/ocsinventory-server/
<cbx33> and on pacakges.ubuntu.com
<cbx33> ahhhh
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> no
<soren> No?
<soren> Aw... Too bad. :)
<cbx33> but apt-get can't find it
<wgrant> cbx33: Because you haven't got your sources.list setup properly, I would suggest. But that can't be right.
<soren> cbx33: How exactly can't apt-get find it?
<wgrant> There's an arch-indep binary published in both Hardy and Intrepid. All looks good to me
<siretart> wgrant: it is an mpeg4 encoder, so yes
<wgrant> siretart: Lovely.
<siretart> wgrant: I think it even was in debian at some point but got removed
<cbx33> nevermind
 * cbx33 found the problm
<cbx33> this box is a gutsy box
<wgrant> cbx33: Heh, that would do it.
<cbx33> damn box
<wgrant> siretart: Yep.
<wgrant> How I love software patents.
<wgrant> I guess we'll have to carry that Debian diff forever.
<siretart> wgrant: however we can and should work on minimizing it
<siretart> (the diff)
<wgrant> siretart: It's pretty small now.
<siretart> oh, cool
<wgrant> There's pulse, and x264.
<wgrant> And xulrunner 1.9.
<siretart> wgrant: would you mind uploading backports of vlc to the motumedia ppa, at least for hardy?
<wgrant> And no iceape.
<wgrant> siretart: If you add me to motumedia, sure (I probably should join anyway). I left a while ago due to bugmail, but I can route that elsewhere now.
<siretart> wgrant: done
<wgrant> siretart: Danke.
<wgrant> siretart: Apart from the pulseaudio plugin diff itself:
<wgrant>  9 files changed, 64 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)
<wgrant> So it's pretty small.
<siretart> wgrant: oh, nice
<siretart> is the pulseaudio plugin diff something that would be applicable to debian as well?
<wgrant> Possibly.
<wgrant> It's in the 0.9 branch upstream.
<siretart> then please file a bug with the patch attached
<wgrant> Will do.
<siretart> thanks
<wgrant> siretart: Ah, it's already there. Debian bug #471069.
<ubottu> Debian bug 471069 in vlc "[patch] pulseaudio support" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/471069
<siretart> wgrant: excellent. thanks
<siretart> now we "only" need some hands to actually integrate them in the debian branch
 * siretart really should focus more on ffmpeg
<wgrant> siretart: The Debian vlc maintainer doesn't seem tooo inactive.
<siretart> no he isn't. I see xtophe from time to time in #videolan
<siretart> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi siretart
<wgrant> siretart: I'm currently rolling an update to fix all vlc CVEs open in Hardy...
<wgrant> I think it builds now.
<siretart> wgrant: cool. thanks
<wgrant> Indeed it does.
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sistpoty|work> woohoo, maybe we'll do a FAUmachine release soon, thanks to your ideas siretart :)
<siretart> sistpoty|work: cool! :)
<rawler> hey.. REVU complains about my tetzle-package, says that lintian thinks the Standards-Version is to high.. (3.8.0).. my local lintian on Hardy does not complain, should I still downgrade Standards-Version?
<sebner> rawler: no
<wgrant> rawler: No. I'll throw a newer lintian on there some time tonight.
<rawler> okies.. great.. :)
<rawler> btw, how long is it usually before someone has time to review a submitted package? hours, days or weeks?
<sebner> rawler: depending on how much you pay and how annoying you are
<wgrant> siretart: Any objections to me installing a backported 3.8.0-compatible lintian on spooky?
<rawler> sebner: I don't pay, and I'm mildly annoying? :)
<sebner> weeks then :P
<wgrant> It is recommended to ask in here no more than once a day.
<wgrant> Somebody will likely take notice of one of your requests.
<rawler> heh.. allright.. I'm just asking since I'm in the process of moving my apartment, so got lots of other stuff to do as well, and wants to know roughly what to expect, for planning.. :)
<Laney> I generally just put stuff in the queue and wait, normally takes a few days
<rawler> Laney: great.. thanks.. :)
<rawler> btw, how important is the manpage of a single-binary game? (a QT4-puzzle-game)
<rawler> or rather, how important is the missing-manpage lintian complaint?
<wgrant> siretart: It looks like vlc 0.9.0 will be out in a month, so the Pulse addition in Debian may not be necessary.
<RAOF> rawler: I, personally, wouldn't sponsor a package at this stage without a manpage.  They're easy enough to write.
<emgent> morning
<Laney> dholbach: Did you manage to fix that mouse problem you were having on Intrepid?
<dholbach> Laney: no - do you have it too?
<Laney> dholbach: Yeah, I just booted it up and it's stuck to a tiny area on the top left
<dholbach> Laney: regarding the "| xf86-common" - having it shouldn't matter
<dholbach> Laney: did you find anything out about it already? any bug report or anything?
<Laney> dholbach: No, doing a bit of poking now
<Laney> and I'll get you a new debdiff in a sec
<dholbach> Laney: take your time - I have a bunch of other things to finish first - but I'll get to it
<dholbach> Laney: keep up the good work! :)
<Laney> Thanks :D
<gnomefreak> for backport packages how is archive admins related to the process?
<jpds> gnomefreak: they do the backporting with their sscripts
<sebner> persia: \o/ for the uqm-content sync but what about the merge :P
<gnomefreak> jpds: so i would have one of them spin it and push?
<persia> sebner: As soon as I can figure out git packaging properly, Debian will have a new revision with those changes.
<sebner> persia: ah true you told me. YEAH sync :D
<sebner> ember: ah gratulation!!!
<jpds> gnoeif you're in the ~ubuntu-backporters team, yes
<jpds> gnomefreak: ^
<gnomefreak> jpds: thanks
<jpds> gnomefreak: otherwise, file a bug and wait for a backporters to approve it.
<gnomefreak> jpds: its been there for over a month and they were subscribed
<gnomefreak> noone touched it and i would really like to get my plate cleaned up a bit
<wgrant> gnomefreak: Filed against <release>-backports?
<gnomefreak> wgrant: no i tried but it wouldnt allow me
<gnomefreak> i tried caps and no caps
<wgrant> gnomefreak: There is no restriction on filing bugs against projects...
<gnomefreak> wgrant: Launchpad doesn't know of any source package named 'hardy-backports' in Ubuntu.
<sebner> persia: when is the new u-u-c emblem introduced? or isn't that possible since the election escalated ^^
<persia> gnomefreak: launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+source/foo
<jpds> gnomefreak: lp.net/hardy-backports
<persia> sebner: Err.  Right.  I'll go look at doing that now.
<wgrant> gnomefreak: Project, not sourcepackage.
<geser> Hi *
<sebner> persia: *thanks*. wuhu. new icon for me \o/  xD
<gnomefreak> wgrant: thanks so i can mark gutsy and hardy as invalid once *-backports is set?
<persia> mok0: I'm looking at the wrench: it's 16x16, and I need 14x14.  Shall I trim one pixel from each edge, or do you want to resize in a more complicated way?
<mok0> persia: the other emblems I have looked at are also 16x16, but displayed as 14x14 in the html
<persia> mok0: OK.  LP tells me it wants 14x14.  If you're sure, I'll put it as is.
<mok0> Yes, try it and see what happens :-)
<mok0> persia: I presume the browser scales it
<sebner> mok0: congratulation =)
<mok0> sebner: thx :-)
<mok0> I guess the wheel emblems can be used for something else
<persia> mok0: It rejects it because it's not the right size.
<sebner> mok0: I totally agree that a wrench represents me ^^
<mok0> persia: do you have imagemagick?
<persia> I've tried a couple crops, and either it looks funny, or the proportions are wrong.
<persia> You want the results of an imagemagick resize?  OK :)
<mok0> persia: 2 secs
<wgrant> gnomefreak: Please do.
<gnomefreak> wgrant: i am
<gnomefreak> thanks
<gnomefreak> pulseaudio isnt default in gutsy right?
<sebner> gnomefreak: nope, since hardy
<gnomefreak> thats gonna be an issue than :(
<gnomefreak> gutsy+flash 10=not gonna work
<sebner> DktrKranz: so, new debdiff for libnxml?
<persia> sebner: https://launchpad.net/people/+me
<sebner> dholbach: I found the mistake what caused the linkchecker FTBFS. README.txt should be README, Now it the question how I change that in debian/rules (cdbs). or I annoy upstream to cut this .txt thing ^^
<sebner> persia: looks wired ^^
<sebner> dholbach: ah wait. the workaround is to comment out binary-post-install/linkchecker:: in debian/rules ^^
<persia> sebner: When does it seek README?  You can probably get away with a custom hook (and it's not worth bothering upstream about, although Debian may be interested)
<sebner> persia: I can comment out rm $(DOCDIR)/README  since it seems that it doesn't get copyed there. neither with nor without .txt
<persia> sebner: Ah.  That works.
<sebner> persia: HRMPF maybe I should add it in debian/linkchecker.docs   -.-
<persia> sebner: Not if it was previously deleted post-install.  Are the contents interesting to users?
<sebner> persia: written in this file: See doc/en/index.txt
<persia> That would not be interesting to users, so it doesn't belong in debian/linkchecker.docs :)
<sebner> persia: so I can comment out this binary-post-install/linkchecker:: rm $(DOCDIR)/README.txt   in debian/rules?
<sebner> persia: sure since this file isn't there -.-
<persia> sebner: As long as you understand what it was supposed to do, and why it isn't needed anymore, you can comment it out.
<sebner> persia: I'll write a super long and great changelog entry :P
<sebner> persia: btw, xgalaga got orphaned now
<directhex> is it a big loss? </blasphemy>
<sebner> lol
<sebner> directhex: dunno, I just merged it last time (persia forced me :P) but I don't know if it's good or bad ^^
<persia> Being orphaned just means that it's maintained by the Debian QA team, rather than anyone else.  it's not  poor reflection on the package.
<persia> We *really* ought merge/sync orphan notices though, as it changes the appropriate contact point for questions about packaging.
<sebner> persia: I never merged a package before that has only the changelog entry with "Orphaned" ^^
<persia> sebner: It's pretty easy.  Just changes to changelog and control.
<sebner> persia: I know. But it's somehow funny ^^
<persia> Why funny?
<sebner> dunno XD. Don't try to understand me ^^
<sebner> persia: do you want to upload my fix for linkchecker?
<persia> sebner: Maybe.  It's late here.  I've promised myself to do a review of the sponsors queue tomorrow, so if the queue is slow, it may be me.
<sebner> persia: ah sry, I didn't look at the time for your timezone. Well, I subscribe u-u-s then
<joejaxx> anyone know how to get pbuilder to not cancel a root tarbal creation because it runs into problems (specifically the package state of intrepid)
<AnAnt> persia: Hello
<norsetto> boo
<soren> Yikes.
<norsetto> sorry ...
<amikrop> Hello. I am packaging a testing/toy Python application I made, with CDBS, for practice/experimentation/experience. The source files are: "setup.py" (the distutils setup script), "bar.py" (a dummy module), "main.py" (the main python script that imports "bar") and "foo", a bash executable for executing "main.py". How will CDBS handle "foo"'s case?
<amikrop> I think I need everything to go in /usr/lib/foo, apart from foo that will go in /usr/bin (in order to be in the PATH).
<amikrop> Or, is it made otherwise? I mean, bar.py goes into /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages and main.py does into /usr/bin?
<amikrop> s/does/goes
<cocoa117> hi, does anyone know when will this issue solved with Ubuntu hardy 8.04 on AMD64 platform?
<cocoa117> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=484758
<ubottu> Debian bug 484758 in openoffice.org-gtk "openoffice.org-gtk: Menu displaced after the last gtk upgrade" [Important,Open]
<amikrop> What do I have to install, to use CDBS with Distutils?
<amikrop> Generally, what do I need to install to use CBDS?
<cocoa117> ubottu, u know about it?
<ubottu> cocoa117: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<amikrop> * CDBS
<amikrop> !cdbs
<ubottu> Factoid cdbs not found
<amikrop> (I found out, the package "cdbs".)
<bliZZardz> cocoa117: were you able to reproduce the issue?
<cocoa117> sure
<cocoa117> just don't know where and how to report
<cocoa117> i was hoping the bug has been fixed
<cocoa117> blizzardz, i have to remove the openoffice.org-gtk package for my oo to work
<cocoa117> can't really use it when it can't open a file
<sebner> norsetto: with fresh mind I'll fight flightgear soon =)
<norsetto> sebner: remember to lower your flightgear before landing
<cocoa117> i have got ubuntu 8.04 on AMD64, with apt manger i have following repository clicked, hardy-security, hardy-updates and hardy-backports. The system is all up to date
<cocoa117> the openoffice.org is version 2.4.1.1-ubuntu1
<sebner> norsetto: ^^ yes, thx for the hint with the lintian warnings. It's just that I won't change things like bumping the s-version to 3.8.0. Our goal is to *reduce* the delta :P
<cocoa117> the OpenOffice works fine without installing openoffice.org-gtk package, which is 2.4.1-1ubuntu1
<cocoa117> after install it, the open file menu hung after click it
<sebner> cocoa117: this isn't a support chan. try #ubuntu
<amikrop> During `$ dpkg-buildpackage` (CDBS and Distutils) I got this: `error: package directory 'bar' does not exist`. The setup.py is here: http://dpaste.com/58842/ ("setup.py", "foo" and "bar.py" are in the same directory).
<amikrop> Things worked just great, straightforward and simply, with CDBS (and Python's distutils). :-)
<tbf> there is a tool for comparing debian package versions on command line....
<tbf> ....what's its name again?
<ogra> dpkg ;)
<DRebellion> Hi! Could someone spare a minute of their time to review my package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio ? Thanks ;)
 * tbf reads the man-page of dpkg again
<ogra> tbf, dpkg --compare-versions 1 gt 2 || echo false
<tbf> ogra: oh! thanks alot.
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<norsetto> howdy
<norsetto> DktrKranz: any news about dudus and dcordero ?
<DktrKranz> norsetto, unluckyly no :(
<norsetto> DktrKranz: ok, this means we should consider them MIA?
<DktrKranz> I guess so
<sebner> norsetto: what about Update of the Builds-Dependence to debhelper to >>5.0.0 ?
<norsetto> sebner: leave it as debian did
<sebner> norsetto: so I suppose also debian/watch  <-- since debian maintainer complained that we put extraload on the main mirror since we comment out the other mirror
<norsetto> sebner: who complained and where?
<sebner> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=480502
<ubottu> Debian bug 480502 in flightgear "Fix include ubuntu changes" [Unknown,Open]
<mandarin> hi, i have a question. why is the eclipse package so old? it's still version 3.2.2
<ScottK> No one was interested to update it.
<norsetto> sebner: you would have to ask huats why he made that change. If I remember it correctly, it just wasn't working.
<sebner> ScottK: wasn't that a java issue? since debian is also waiting for the newest version to come out and package
<huats> sebner: what is it about ?
<sebner> norsetto: kay, I'll check. And I decided to fix all the lintian warnings and give him a nice debdiff
<norsetto> sebner: check with him also with the file extension (yes, it should be png) and the download location
<norsetto> huats: ^^
<sebner> ^^
<norsetto> huats!!!
<huats> norsetto !!!
<norsetto> huats: its about flightgear, do you remember why we changed the watch file?
<sebner> norsetto: but isn't his reaction funny: What's wrong with the .desktop file xD
<huats> norsetto: I changed it ? sure ?
<huats> I don't remember I did...
<norsetto> sebner: yeah, don't be bothered by that
<sebner> norsetto: ok ok, we'll fight down the delta :)
<norsetto> sebner: if the default mirror used by debian works, don't bother to change it, its not worth a delta
<sebner> norsetto: so all in all we'll just keep the icon thing, hmm?
<norsetto> sebner: possibly, but check if it can indeed be downloaded and change the extension in copyright
<norsetto> sebner: and don't forget the desktop change
<norsetto> sebner: IMHO also the docs change its worth keeping
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: I now think there's no need for an SRU for bug #240191 . The authentication and uploading images works fine here, probably the problems appeared with a later version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240191 in postr "Please backport or SRU postr 0.12.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240191
<ScottK> Kopfgeldjaeger: Please say so in the bug.
<sebner> norsetto: Newest version on remote site is 1, local version is 1.0.0
<sebner>  => remote site does not even have current version
<sebner>   xD
<ScottK> Is this a sourceforge watch file?
<norsetto> sebner: which one is that? Check the regex and check directly what is the name of the tarball there.
<sebner> norsetto: mirror -> FlightGear-1.0.0.tar.gz
<sebner> ScottK: nope
<ScottK> OK.  If it was, then I'd blame the Debian sourceforge magic.  It's been funky lately.
<norsetto> sebner: ok, so it is likely the regex
<sebner> norsetto: I suppose a "version=1.0.0" is missing, hmm?
<norsetto> sebner: its not worth fixing this, just keep the one from Debian and alert the DM about the problem
<sebner> norsetto: great :) I will prepare a debdiff soon :)
<sebner> ScottK: for courier we can't say "it's not worth fixing this", hmm :P
<ScottK> Which bug?
<ScottK> We just say it nicely.
<sebner> ScottK: sry I mean:" just keep the one from Debian"
<ScottK> Oh.
<sebner> just a joke ;)
<norsetto> huats: do you remember about the flightgear icon?
<sebner> norsetto: at least the download link isn't working anymore
<norsetto> sebner: yes, thats why I would like to hear from huats if he remembers anything about it
<huats> hum
<huats> I might remember a few stuffs
<huats> there was no icon at all
<huats> so I went in the sources of the flightgear and I found in an old version that icon
<huats> that I've converted in xpm I think
<norsetto> huats: ok, so it was in an old tarball? hmmm, the link we have in copyright doesn't work anymore
<huats> hum
<huats> it was  the good link...
<huats> no way to find it in google cache ?
<norsetto> sebner, huats: Josh Babcock is mentioned in the changelog and also in emails in the flightgear-devel list (http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel%40flightgear.org/msg35007.html)
<sebner> norsetto: so?
<huats> sebner: so you can contact him :)
<huats> norsetto: sorry for not being really helpful
<sebner> norsetto: 2 days left ;)
<huats> I am in the middle of the regular meeting of the french loco... and since I am the new leader I am leading it :)
<norsetto> sebner: so, what are you waiting for?
<sebner> norsetto: finding the correct words :P
<norsetto> huats: hey leaders always say they have something urgent to do and leave the meeting to go and smoke a cigarette ;-)
<sebner> lol
<norsetto> sebner: you can also check if the icon is in the tarball already, or if it is only included with the windows package; in both cases there should be some documents about it
<norsetto> sebner: it doesn't hurt to show some initiative, don't expect there will always be somebody to tell you what you have to do
<sebner> norsetto: understood, thx
<sebner> norsetto: for W: flightgear source: debian-watch-file-missing-version
<sebner>   I'd need the next flightgear version right?
<sebner> + to know
<norsetto> sebner: I don't know by heart, what lintian -i says?
<sebner> norsetto:  The first non-comment line of debian/watch should be a version declaration.
<norsetto> sebner: ok, thats the version=3 whatever line
<norsetto> sebner: if you check man uscan it says what that should be
<sebner> norsetto: ah I see, I was just wondering if I should write the next programm version there xD
<norsetto> sebner: no, no, its the watch file format version
<sebner> norsetto: yeah ^^, so now fixed all lintian warnings. just the icon thing is missing. I sent a mail to Josh Babcock since it's not in the tarball and my wlan sucks so I can't download big things
<norsetto> sebner:ok, thx for all the work, lets wait for Josh now
<sebner> norsetto: well, I just try to show some initiative ;)
<norsetto> sebner: please do ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: I'm just really surprised that some debian maintainers doesn't want icons -.-
<norsetto> sebner: I don't think he doesn't, he needs to make sure that the icon is licensed correctly
<sebner> norsetto: maybe in this case but I think generelly
<norsetto> emgent: any news about eggdrop?
<emgent> norsetto: not now, i worked in flybook for ubuntu intrepid these days
<emgent> if sebner dont work to it i will do this night
<RoAkSoAx> what's need to be done to eggdrop?
<norsetto> emgent: ok, please lets try to have it before tommorrow night
<sebner> emgent: hmm norsetto forgot to told you. eggdrop is yours. so I assigned it to you ;)
<emgent> ok norsetto sebner np i will do.
<sebner> fine
<RoAkSoAx> what's need to be done to eggdrop? add the ssl patch and that's about it?
 * norsetto thinks that adding a statement about why debian bug 374568 won't be fixed was not a big effort
<ubottu> Debian bug 374568 in eggdrop "eggdrop: SSL support" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/374568
<rzr> hi
<rzr> I just submitted a debian sync, should I do something more before the debianimportfreeze  day ?
<ScottK> Did you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug?
<rzr> just did now
<ScottK> Then you're done.
<ScottK> Weird.  Someone just /msg'ed me on a completely different IRC service about Ubuntu clamav packages.
<rzr> ScottK: how long could it take now ?
<ScottK> Depends on how much time sponsors have available.
<ScottK> Lots of requests, not so many sponsors.
 * ScottK would guess days, but not weeks.
<Kopfgeldjaeger> ScottK: Added it to bug #240191
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240191 in postr "Please merge postr 0.12.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240191
<ScottK> Thanks.
<norsetto> ScottK: did he check if that works in Intrepid?
<ScottK> norsetto: The bug was filed against a previous version, so I don't think it's needed.
<norsetto> scottk: what I mean is that there is a chance this is just a sync (assuming python-nautilus is not needed as a dep). If (as I suspect) is needed than yes, we need to merge.
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, what's need to be done to eggdrop ?
<emgent> add new ssl patch
<directhex> ssl? check for security holes!
<RoAkSoAx> i think i did that already, would you take a look at it?
<emgent> we know directhex
<emgent> RoAkSoAx: Bug #236620
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236620 in eggdrop "Merge eggdrop 1.6.19-1 from Debian(Unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236620
<emgent> if you like work to it, for me sounds good.
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, should i attach my debdiff there?
<emgent> i should work in other package too
<emgent> RoAkSoAx: sure.
<emgent> RoAkSoAx: you like work to it or not ?
<emgent> tell me now if you like, i should know it :)
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, i just attached the debdiff
<emgent> ok nice.
<emgent> RoAkSoAx: tested ?
<ScottK> norsetto: I was more worried about do we need an SRU than the merge.
<RoAkSoAx> ember, just builded it
<emgent> norsetto: can you take a look for upload it ?
<RainCT> emgent: ping
<emgent> RainCT: pong
<RainCT> emgent: what's with pam-fprint's libpam-dev dependency?
<emgent> libprintf-dev and other stuff
<emgent> just a moment launchpad is very slow
<emgent> RainCT: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/fprint-demo
<emgent> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libfprint
<emgent> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/fprint-demo
<emgent> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/libpam-fprint
<emgent> done :)
<emgent> RainCT: thanks for ACK
<emgent> s/libprintf-dev/libfprint/
<emgent> Queued:  	4 hours ago
<RainCT> emgent: yeh, but it resolves the libpam-dev dependency correctly, or?
<emgent> Estimated build start: 	2008-06-28
<emgent> argh
<emgent> RainCT: sure, it`s correct
<RainCT> okay :)
<emgent> libfprint include libfprint0 and libfprint-dev
<emgent> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfprint/0.0.6-2
 * RainCT guesses he should get an intrepid pbuilder :P
<emgent> heheh :)
<emgent> anyway all package is in Ubuntu Flybook TEAM PPA
<emgent> build and work fine
<emgent> see also my post in planet.u.c
<RainCT> uhm.. that's evil, the pbuilder chroot hasn't nano instaÅled and I've to edit the sources.list with vim :(
<emgent> RainCT: in pbuilder search libfprint-dev deps.
<RainCT> how can I save with vim?
<ivoks> sounds like heaven to me :)
<ivoks> :wq
<emgent> RainCT: :wq!
<RainCT> thanks
<ivoks> i've tested fprint-demo on hardy
<ivoks> works great :D
<emgent> sure :)
<RainCT> :)
<ivoks> looking forward to usable pam module ;)
<emgent> pam-fprint too
<ivoks> 'night
<RoAkSoAx> emgent, should i suscribed it to u-u-s or wait till norsetto takes a look at it?
<emgent> RoAkSoAx: feel free so subscribe u-u-s now
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool thanks :)
<RainCT> well, good night
<emgent> if norsetto have time, will upload it :)
<emgent> RainCT: thanks and good night.
<RainCT> yw
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-25
<zul>  /msg kees wth with the mod_cache stuff?
<kees> :)
<kees> I need to sort it out with slangasek
<kees> zul: ^^
<emgent> heya
<moosepants> Hi guys. I see someone has published Subversion 1.5 for Intrepid. I downloaded the source this morning and built it for Hardy. Is there a place I can chuck this for people to test/etc? Should I bother?
<moosepants> source package etc that is
<zul> moosepants: you can place it in your ppa if you wish
<moosepants> zul: Yes might do that, at least for the guys here at work anyway
<pwnguin> hey, if i see a change log that goes (in increasing chronological order) unstable, feisty, unstable, feisty, does that mean debian pulled from ubuntu?
<ScottK> pwnguin: No.  It means it's been merged from Debian multiple times.
<pwnguin> ok
<ScottK> If you want to see a package where Debian pulled from Ubuntu, look at klamav.
<ScottK> You won't be suprised when you see who did it.
<pwnguin> klam or clam?
<ScottK> klam
<pwnguin> i see
<moosepants> Hi, perhaps someone here can help. I downloaded a package source for Intrepid, and pbuilt it under Hardy. I have discovered a problem now, and would like to build it against a different library
<moosepants> The source.orig doesn't have the /debian directory, so do I edit the .dsc file?
<moosepants> or can debuild create the /debian from the dsc?
<Laney> moosepants: You can use dpkg -x <.dsc file> to unpack the source package.
<moosepants> Laney: Thanks, I'll give it a whirl
<arvind_khadri> hi...i wanted to know that how do we create a *.deb out of say a text editor code written in C
<moosepants> Laney: Sorry, I think I already have the contents of the source package - the source.orig.tar.gz, the source.dsc and source.diff.gz file. However, the source.orig.tar.gz file doesn't contain a /debian directory. I presume the debuild process creates the .dsc from the /debian directory - I want to do the reverse
<Laney> moosepants: The diff.gz will contain the debian changes.
<Laney> So if you unpack the source package using the command I gave you then you'll get a package-version directory which will have a debian/ subdirectory that you can edit
<ScottK> moosepants: dpkg-source -x FILENAME.dsc will unpack the source package with the debian dir in it.
<ScottK> Laney: It is dpkg-source though, not dpkg.
<Laney> ScottK: Yes, of course.
<RAOF> arvind_khadri: By making a source package based on the C source code.  You probably want to check out the PackagingGuide.
<moosepants> ScottK, Laney: Thanks, I'll give this a go and see how I fare. Cheers
<ScottK> Cheers.
<arvind_khadri> RAOF thanks...can you please direct me there
<RAOF> arvind_khadri: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<arvind_khadri> RAOF, thanks a lot
<RAOF> There may be a newer version; that was just the first one I stumbled upon when browsing wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<arvind_khadri> RAOF, oh ok...i would check out for the new version
<ScottK> RAOF and arvind_khadri: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<ScottK> That's the most current.
<arvind_khadri> ScottK, thanks to you too
<moosepants> ScottK: After changing the library in the control, rebuilding the dsc and trying to pbuild it again I get a unmet dependency because the library I have changed to is a virtual package.  Why is this failing?
<ScottK> What library?
<moosepants> ScottK: libneon26-gnutls-dev (the package source I originally grabbed from Intrepid uses libneon27-gnutls-dev, and am backporting to Hardy). The package is Subversion, and I have seen a bug (that I am experiencing also) that is likely caused by libneon27-gnutls
<arvind_khadri> is it necessary that we have a make file in *.deb too...it is only meant for the *.tar right??
<ScottK> arvind_khadri: It's not needed unless you can't use the upstream one.
<ScottK> moosepants: What is the exact error you get?
<persia> arvind_khadri: debian/rules is traditionally a Makefile, which often makes an additional Makefile unnecessary.
<ScottK> IIRC it's required by policy to be a make file.
<arvind_khadri> persia, oh ok...
<moosepants> ScottK: Well I run pbuild and it does the thing where it grabs the deps. And I get the line "E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed." before it cleans up and exits. Further up I read "The following packages have unmet dependencies:  pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libneon26-gnutls-dev which is a virtual package."
<moosepants> I can epaste it (or whatever its called if you like... ?)
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.  I've seen packages with different interpreters, but hadn't realised those were policy violations.
<ScottK> Pastebin.
<moosepants> ScottK: ;)
<ScottK> persia: There are a few of those.  I can't remember for sure if it is policy or it will soon be policy.
<ScottK> !pastebin | moosepants
<ubottu> moosepants: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<persia> ScottK: It's listed as "must" in 3.8.0.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> There we have it.
 * persia hasn't checked diffs to determine when it became policy
<moosepants> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22762/
 * ScottK wrote his first README.source this week.
<ScottK> The short version is see man cdbs-edit-patch.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> moosepants: My recommendation is modify your pbuilder to use the 'classic' version of satisfydepends.
<moosepants> ScottK: Thanks, I'll look into it (I only started using it yesterday =] )
<ScottK> Look in /etc/pbuilderrc
<crimsun_> libneon26-gnutls-dev is in universe.
<ScottK> Ah.  moosepants Is universe enabled on your pbuilder?
<moosepants> ScottK: Ah.. probably not. I'll have a look in the rc file
<ScottK> crimsun_ may have it figured out better than I do.  I'd look at that first.
 * ScottK wonders why "Launchpad Design and Usability Engineer" is listed as an Ubuntu job?
<pwnguin> because canonical is special, duh.
<moosepants> ScottK, crimsun_: After uncommenting the line that specifies the components, and do a pbuilder update, it still only pulls from main. Do I have to do a complete pbuilder create again?
<ScottK> No.
<crimsun_> update --override-config
<nxvl> when are revu days?
<nxvl> are there some programmed already?
<persia> nxvl: They were once announced for every wednesday, but nobody has been leading them.
<persia> nxvl: This being wednesday somewhere, you might advertise your package, and see if anyone comments.
<nxvl> persia: i have, on the server-team list
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> then hope that the small overlap of people will look at your package
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> also they talked about it in today's server meeting
 * ajmitch decided to miss that meeting
<persia> nxvl: Asking here is more likely to target a MOTU to review, unless it's server-team specific :)
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's because canonical have a wish to hire inside the ubuntu community, if they can.
 * ScottK doesn't think it's accurate to describe it as an Ubuntu job.
<persia> That page is frustrating for all sorts of reasons.
<persia> I liked it better when there was another position posted, but it went away.
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> talking about the LP jobs?
<Hobbsee> yeah
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: good $TZ_TIME_OF_DAY
<nxvl> dholbach: i was waiting for you
<nxvl> dholbach: i replied to you on revu
<nxvl> dholbach: the amd64 error seems to be a weird/random error
<dholbach> nxvl: aha?
<wgrant> It's not OOo, so it can't have weird/random errors!
<nxvl> dholbach: i have build augeas on my ppa and it build for amd64
<dholbach> nxvl: alright - I'll take a look later on
<nxvl> dholbach: i also made some changes early today (in this tz) and uploaded again, maybe it fixes the build error
<nxvl> but, how did you build it? pbuilder or just debuild
<nxvl> ?
<dholbach> pbuilder
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> weird
<wgrant> jpds: Are you planning to have Bugzilla 3.0.4 synced from Debian? It's there now.
<kirkland> dholbach: hi there, would you have time to review a package merge of mine, and sponsor an upload?
<kirkland> (or anyone else for that matter...)
<kirkland> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/audacious/
<kirkland> ^ audacious merged for intrepid
<kirkland> tjaalton: hey, it looks like you were the last one to upload, perhaps you might reivew?
<persia> kirkland: It still needs a merge?  I thought nenolod had put together the necessary distribution detection in the build system.
<kirkland> persia: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/audacious/REPORT
<persia> nenolod: ?
<nenolod> i haven't had an opportunity yet.
<nenolod> it'll be in 1.5.2.
<persia> nenolod: Is that likely in a few weeks, or should we merge again for now?
<nenolod> i'd merge, cause 1.5.2 does not have a set release date yet.
<nenolod> we're looking at mid-july probably.
<persia> nenolod: Makes sense.  Thanks.
<dholbach> kirkland: would you mind following  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ? I'm doing a bunch of sponsoring right now and I'd process it in the queue (or somebody else if I'm too slow) :)
<kirkland> dholbach: oh, sure, no problemo!
<dholbach> rock on!
<wgrant> Hmm, I find it interesting that (on LP) canonical-server's emblem is ubuntu-server's emblem but with an Ubuntu logo on top.
<kirkland> nenolod: persia: any chance one of you can review/upload?  I have filed a bug in LP: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/242841
<ubott2> Launchpad bug 242841 in audacious "please merge audacious_1.5.1-1" [Undecided,New]
<persia> kirkland: neither of us has permission to upload that :)
<kirkland> ah, okay, no worries
<persia> Wait, it's in universe?  I thought it was in main.
<kirkland> i should call it a night anyway
<kirkland> persia: yeah, universe
<persia> kirkland: I'll look at it later then.
<nenolod> the merge is fine
<nenolod> bbl
 * dholbach takes a look at libjibx-java
<wgrant> ScottK: Bug #217256 has CVE-2008-183[5-7] associated with it, but I can't see any relevance. Can you please confirm their status?
<ubott2> Launchpad bug 217256 in clamav "ClamAV Upack Processing Buffer Overflow Vulnerability" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217256
<pwnguin> gah i hate the forums
<pwnguin> there's a bug report in a closed forum that's valid; i'd like to add a reply to tell him to subscribe in LP, but it's closed so no comments =(
<persia> wgrant: Would you mind reminding me of the incantation to allow Java to work in a build chroot?  I'm not finding your several prior repetitions in my logs.  I promise to write it down somewhere useful this time :)
<slytherin> persia: Just got your mail. Is the time for meeting in UTC?
<persia> slytherin: Yes.  You may also want to join #ubuntu-java, which seems to have a little more traffic now, although still not much.
<wgrant> persia: echo "buildd shared/accepted-sun-dlj-v1-1 boolean true" | debconf-set-selections
<wgrant> That's what I've found from my logs, though there might be something else - I'll check the rebuildd chroots.
<persia> wgrant: Thank you very much.
<wgrant> That seems to be all.
<directhex> i think the opensuse build service has a package to set that setting as part of their debbuntu buildds
<wgrant> Hopefully it will be unnecessary soon, anyway.
<jpds> wgrant: yes, I know, I haven't had time to file the request tho..
<wgrant> jpds: Thanks.
<pwnguin> wgrant: ive a question about xournal -- have we really not merged with debian since feisty?
<wgrant> Just wondering, as it has its share of CVEs.
<wgrant> pwnguin: We have new upstream releases, but have not merged with Debian.
<wgrant> And I'm not TIL any more, so...
<pwnguin> right, but you started it ;)
<pwnguin> we're fine
<wgrant> I did introduce a new upstream release, but merged with Debian soon after.
<pwnguin> i just wanted to make sure i wasnt crazy
<wgrant> Has there been anything to merge?
<pwnguin> doubt it
<wgrant> It seems odd that we've had two well-spaced uploads by different people, but no merges.
<pwnguin> the latest debian upload happened in  june 3rd
<pwnguin> as an NMU
<wgrant> Aha.
<wgrant> New upstream release?
<wgrant> (sorry, eating at the moment, so can't really check much)
<pwnguin> basically they're catching up with ubuntu ;)
<wgrant> We're ahead in something? That'd be a first.
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> i was reluctant about it, but we've got precedent and a really angry upstream
<wgrant> Oh, did you NMU it?
<pwnguin> nope
<wgrant> Or angry about us?
<pwnguin> angry about us
<wgrant> With our X changes?
<pwnguin> for not shipping a new version in hardy
<wgrant> Did they bother to tell us pre-release?
<pwnguin> nope
<wgrant> Then they should run off and complain to themselves.
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i might ask in a week or so if there's any plans
<pwnguin> for intrepid
<wgrant> We can't actually feasibly monitor 12000 upstreams, I'm sorry.
<pwnguin> but they're really not what you'd call a reliable upstream release engineer
<wgrant> Heh.
<pwnguin> two releases in the past year shipped with point releases days later because of terrible bugs
<pwnguin> with simple fixes at least
<wgrant> If they want to interact with Launchpad and get somebody on their side to upload it, that might be good.
<pwnguin> im reluctant to suggest to an MIT math professor and fedora user that they should switch to a closed source LP
<pwnguin> what does this "interact with launchpad" entail for them?
<DktrKranz> Does anybody know if there's a list of compatible hardware for Ubuntu Mobile Edition?
<wgrant> File bugs if they notice issues with the Ubuntu package, I guess.
<wgrant> persia: ^^?
<pwnguin> theres tons of bug reports in the xournal sourceforge related to ubuntu, but mostly it looks like its because we're the only usable group around ^_^
<pwnguin> DktrKranz: you'll know its compatible because it was sold to you preinstalled, I'd say
<wgrant> Does his pet distro not have it?
<wgrant> pwnguin: I know persia runs it on some strange hardware.
<pwnguin> wgrant: xournal appears to only be available in fedora 7
<pwnguin> but maybe im reading their website wrong
<wgrant> Aren't we up to Fedora 9?
<directhex> yes
<pwnguin> i think so?
<wgrant> Oh, Fedora 7 and only 7?
<directhex> nice to see fedora's met its goal of having a proper ps3 version by fedora 7
<directhex> (/sarcasm)
<directhex> of course, ubuntu's now officially junk on that front, so glass houses & all that
<wgrant> directhex: I believe that kernel fixes are on the way, though they won't make 8.04.1.
<pwnguin> how do you upgrade a kernel fix when it wont boot?
<pwnguin> dist-upgrade from 7.10?
<wgrant> pwnguin: By waiting for 8.04.2 or a specially-rolled PS3 image, I would suggest.
<directhex> wgrant, perhaps one day the ps3 will be a second class citizen, rather than third class
<wgrant> directhex: Or perhaps people should be using proper PCs.
<wgrant> And leaving gaming consoles to be gaming consoles.
<pwnguin> directhex: wake me up when ubuntu runs on the wii :P
<pwnguin> till then, go bug BenC, since he's the one who's using a PS3 as a video player
<slytherin> how are the ps3 kernel images compiled?
<wgrant> Same way as the rest, no?
<pwnguin> one bit at a time?
<pwnguin> or maybe byte
<pwnguin> it should just be a ppc image
<pwnguin> its not like you get great access to the awesome hardware underneath
<directhex> you get some cell access, which makes for an interesting tinker toyu
<Hobbsee> directhex: of course, this is the advantage in not having totally-volunteer based stuff, instead of only mostly-volunteer based stuff.
<Hobbsee> directhex: still, you can be one of the ones who is personally responsible for it, if you want it
<Hobbsee> there's another guy already doing stuff with it, and has been in #ubuntu-devel over the past few weeks about it, iirc.
<directhex> i lack the required kernel wrangling knowledge
<Hobbsee> then get it.
<Hobbsee> armchair wishing, while it might be fun, really doesn't get you anywhere.
 * Hobbsee is sure there's documentation around, if you're determined enough to find it.
 * ajmitch wanders in, sees a whole lot of complaining, wanders out again
 * wgrant complains about ajmitch's hasty exit.
<Hobbsee> but, y'know, clearly it's unfair that a volunteer hasn't put in the time and effort to do what you want to see done...
<pwnguin> which volunteer?
<pwnguin> its just a slight bit unfair when colin and ben start something and walk away. but not enough to trigger my sympathy gland :)
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: i thought it started with an X.
<pwnguin> i dont follow
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: yeah.  likewise, it's unfair when any person stops writing a program or functionality that I want.  Or don't start writing it in the first place.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: oh, right.  any volunteer.
<Hobbsee> the guy who keeps being in -devel about it starts with an x, iirc.
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: well, there's this bit nobody rembers about the CoC
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: stepping down responsibly means not getting rid of mission criticla systems.
<pwnguin> where it says step down gracefuly. i'd argue that looking for replacements is part of that
<Hobbsee> and such
<directhex> there's work, and there's banging your head against a brick wall. using the fedora example, patches to get the distro working "out of the box" have been festering in the fedora bugzilla for over a year, but those who can implement the back-end changes required are disinterested in doing so
<directhex> at any rate, moaning about ps3 linux feels FAR more productive than fighting with kerberos on mac right now.
<pwnguin> but this is a bit unfair. colin did notify everyone that he was stepping down, to my recollection
<Hobbsee> so, what you're syaing is that anyone who develops something, and has it in ubuntu, is required to provide support for it indefinetly, and to give users other possibilities for it, indefinetly, no matter when the last time they did something on it was.
<Hobbsee> i'm afraid i can't agree with your interpretation of the CoC then.
<pwnguin> yes, you've perfectly summarized my sentence with a paragraph
<Hobbsee> the GPL doesn't even require that, to my knowledge.
<pwnguin> i dont know enough about the ps3 situation to really place any blame for the state of the community (or lack thereof)
<pwnguin> being that i lack 600 dollars
 * Hobbsee wonders how many of the ubuntu developers are prepared to support anything they write, for the rest of their earthly lives.
<pwnguin> i never said that, you did :P
<StevenK> pwnguin: Right, so I wrote Linda, a package checker, and it was in Ubuntu. It's since been removed, but if you want to use it, you'll ask me for support because I wrote it?
<Hobbsee> as a summary of your statement, yes.  Which you then agreed with.
<pwnguin> theres no reason to get snippy; apparently i misplaced a </sarcasm> tag
<directhex> it's the "if it doesn't work for you, fix it or bugger off" snippiness. i use it all the time in #mythtv-users
<pwnguin> directhex: no its "sarcasm reads like idiocy online" snippiness
<directhex> i assume everything i read is idiocy. especially on docs.info.apple.com
<pwnguin> well thanks.
<pwnguin> anyways, im of the general put up or shut up scenario with a community supported ps3 image. colin's a smart person, i imagine he made it clear how things stood when he started it and how things stood when he left
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: interesting that you class things as snipy and as sarcasm, when people naturally pull apart your claims.
<pwnguin> ^ that is missing some thougt
<Hobbsee> gives you a great way of not expanding your views at all.
<Hobbsee> s/expanding/supporting/
<sebner> damn wlan -.-
<james_w> persia: hi, are you still ok for tomorrow?
<sebner> \sh: you seem to have great fun with Leonov, hmm :)
<sebner> dholbach: linkchecker fixed and uploaded. \o/
<dholbach> sebner: I uploaded it :)
<sebner> dholbach: ha! nice. I never know if nobody comments. and I couldn't find a changes_file
<sebner> dholbach: anyway. dirty but working :D
<dholbach> no, that's fine
<sebner> dholbach: but strange since in Debian it doesn't FTBFS but also there it should :\
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<james_w> hi sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi james_w
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<\sh> sebner: you not? :)
<sebner> \sh: I didn't use it yet. I can't even start it ^^
<\sh> sebner: why not? what's the problem? read the README ;)
<sebner> lol
<sebner> \sh: ah. readme seems to be interesting xD
<sebner> \sh: nice but it seems that the Qt version is somehow forwad
<jdstrand> \sh: hi! are you working on the ruby1.9 merge?
<jdstrand> \sh: I am going to take it if not
<\sh> jdstrand: please do :)
<jdstrand> \sh: ok
 * sebner is too afraid to take on of \sh merges ^^
<tjaalton> TheMuso: re: vdr-plugin-console; I think that merging vdr (which I'll do next week) should make the change obsolete. After that, most of the plugins should be syncable
<kostmo> how does one make a newline in the package description in debian/control?
<kostmo> the method described in http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Description doesn't work for me
<sistpoty|work> kostmo: with " ."
<geser> " ." doesn't work for you?
<kostmo> lol my bad
<kostmo> i forgot "." was a "full-stop character"
<kostmo> I was thinking "newline" for some reason
<kostmo> can text be bolded or formatted in any other way in the description?
<sebner> geser: fire up your ACK-script. I have some syncs in u-u-s queue :P
<sistpoty|work> kostmo: not really. only thing is that two leading spaces will iirc create verbatim text (useful for e.g. lists)
<kostmo> ok, thanks
<kostmo> so I finally got all the kinks worked out of my package and successfully uploaded it to my PPA, I would now like to get it into Universe
<kostmo> it says that one should file a Launchpad bug for needs-packaging -- is there a template for this kind of bug?
<geser> kostmo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages/ExamplePackageRequest
<kostmo> ah, thanks!
<tjaalton> siretart: re:vdr; yes, I am. mostly offline this week, but if you have questions you can mail me and I'll answer when I get back
<siretart> tjaalton: I wanted to ask you to provide backports of your vdr packages for hardy, if applicable/necessary
<siretart> tjaalton: in the MOTUMedia ppa. I started to do so in the past, but if you are preparing uploads to intrepid it would be less efford to upload them to the ppa as well
<tjaalton> siretart: right. I'll merge vdr next week and file sync-requests for the plugins as necessary. backporting should be easy
<siretart> tjaalton: cool. I'll add you them to the motumedia team, so that you can upload yourself. just apply to the team and I'll approve you
<tjaalton> siretart: ok, I'll apply next week when I have more bandwith ;)
<siretart> ok
<DktrKranz> soren: new network-manager-vpnc snapshot uploaded to intrepid. You maintain it in Debian, biebl was thinking to move it to collaborative maintenance under pkg-utopia team, can I be of any help?
<soren> DktrKranz: Er... It's already there.
<soren> DktrKranz: "Maintain it in Debian" is not exactly accurate, though.
<soren> I'm *supposed* to.
<DktrKranz> soren: ah, I noticed right now...
<soren> Every time I have to work on it, I end up spending a few hours yelling and screaming at GNOME's svn and then at svn-buildpackage and more often than not, I give up at some point.
<DktrKranz> soren: anyway, if you need help/manpower/anything, I'd like to help
<sebner> DktrKranz: huhu, so new debdiff for libnxml? yes or no?
<DktrKranz> sebner: prepare it, so sponsors will choose between them :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: *you* are my sponsor :P
 * DktrKranz looks at his reference book, no indication he is sebner's soley sponsor :P
<geser> DktrKranz: your copy is outdated :)
<sebner> geser: ha! thx :P
<DktrKranz> geser: already? damn!
<DktrKranz> wasn't it 0.6.6?
<sebner> geser: thx for ACKing my syncs. How big is the queue currently?
<DktrKranz> sebner: I see 64 bugs waiting
<sebner> DktrKranz: great. so the times are over with >300 waiting bugs ^^
<DktrKranz> well... if you look at subscribed bugs you'll get 92, but I usually look at http://tinyurl.com/6dawf8
<sebner> I see :)
<DktrKranz> and it was > 300 because of DebianMaintainerField bugs :P
<sebner> ^^
<DktrKranz> now they're gone (only 2 missing, but pending upload)
<sebner> good we fixed them *grins*
<DktrKranz> sebner: don't worry, there will always be :)
<sebner> ^^
 * directhex awaits a merge in main. and one in debian
<azeem> anybody whether LaserJock is really busy recently, or just not on IRC a lot?
<sistpoty|work> azeem: afaict he's really busy with his PhD
<wgrant> azeem: He is taking a break from Ubuntu, for reasons which sistpoty|work has mentioned.
<azeem> k, I shall send him a mail then
<sebner> persia: uqm-music and *-voice is debian new \o/
<wgrant> sebner: Didn't we just sync from Mithrandir's repo within the last couple of days?
<sebner> wgrant: yes
<sebner> wgrant: but Debian didn't want to include them because they are so big but now it's in new
<wgrant> sebner: Aren't they no more than a couple of dozen megabytes?
 * wgrant looks.
<sebner> wgrant: dunno. but Debian didn't want them. They are/were talking about a data repo. dunno
<james_w> \sh: isn't there a typo in the Replaces: of clalsadrv?
<james_w> libclasadrvc2 instead of libclalsadrvc2
<james_w> I assume it's no longer important, as now we are post-hardy these can be dropped?
<\sh> think so
<james_w> it appears the packages in question were pre-dapper.
<mouz> I packaged touchfreeze (with apachelogger's help). I hope one or two motu would like to review the packaging. The needs-packaging bug is bug 240636. I uploaded it to revu (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=touchfreeze).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240636 in brasero "close without saving dialog duplicates hotkeys" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240636
<mouz> oeps wrong bug
<mouz> bug 240637
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240637 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] touchfreeze" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240637
<Jazzva> I have prepared 3 merges, if anyone is willing to review. All of them are mozilla extensions, and since our and Debian packaging for extensions differs a lot, all are prepared by grabbing orig.tar.gz from debian, updating the source, and then modifying our packaging, if needed. The packaging is available in bzr branches mentioned in the bugreport.
<Jazzva> bug 241160, bug 241669, bug 241671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241160 in livehttpheaders "Please merge livehttpheaders 0.14-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241160
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241669 in foxyproxy "Please merge foxyproxy 2.7.5~dfsg.1-1 from debian unstable to intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241671 in ctxextensions "Please merge ctxextensions 4.1.2008050601-1 from debian unstable to intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241671
<Jazzva> Thanks :)
<wgrant> Jazzva: Is it really necessary to have such a deviation from Debian?
<wgrant> That is generally strongly frowned upon.
<Jazzva> wgrant, mozilla team prepared package mozilla-devscripts, which contains xpi.mk script. It makes extension packaging and maintaining a lot easier
<wgrant> Jazzva: Are you attempting to push this to Debian?
<Jazzva> wgrant, there are plans to include mozilla-devscripts package in Debian, but for now it doesn't exist there. That's why such a big difference exists
<wgrant> Jazzva: Right, that's fine then.
<Jazzva> wgrant, yes, when mozilla-devscripts is included in debian, I suppose they'll start using xpi.mk, so the merge changes won't be so big.
<Jazzva> s/is/gets
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<norsetto> hallo all
<geser> Hallo norsetto
<norsetto> hi geser
<persia> DktrKranz: There's not a list, but it ought at least boot on anything McCaslin or Menlow.
 * persia should put up a wiki page
<persia> james_w: Certainly.  10:00, right?
<persia> sebner: Indeed.  Life is amusing that way.  Anyway, we'll pull from Debian when we can, as the err.no packages are likely to not be there after lenny (as the domain is changing).
<james_w> persia: great. My email says "10:00 UTC on Thu 26th June"
<persia> james_w: Right.  Any pet bug you want reviewed in the session?
<james_w> persia: not that I can think of. Perhaps petitioning #ubuntu-bugs might get you something.
<persia> james_w: Good idea
 * persia is happy at the idea of someone else picking the stacktrace
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me where has this document moved - http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
<jpds> slytherin: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<persia> Well, it didn't exactly move, but it's roughly the same content.
<slytherin> In the packaging guide the example copyright file contains word 'The Ubuntu Packaging:', is it appropriate?
<persia> slytherin: In which context?  At the top, or at the bottom?
<slytherin> persia: at bottom, where it specifies packaging copyright
<slytherin> I mean shouldn't it be debian packaging or simply packaging
<persia> slytherin: I usually just say "Packaging" there.
<slytherin> persia: thanks
<persia> On the other hand, it's not wrong as long as the package is only done for Ubuntu: someone ought negotiate or change it if they want to put it somewhere else.
<persia> Probably better if the guide dropped the word "Ubuntu" in that context.
<persia> slytherin: Would you mind fixing that?
<slytherin> persia: I will do it.
<persia> slytherin: Thanks.
<slytherin> geser: had advocated my package on revu and left minor comments. I fixed those and re-uploaded it. Now the main page says no advocates. Ii is a problem, isn't it?
<geser> slytherin: not really, I just need to check the package again and readvocate it
<slytherin> geser: Ok. Take your time, I am in no hurry. :-)
<persia> slytherin: More generally, when you update a package, previous advocations are removed, as there is no guarantee your changes are also advocated.  As you've just seen, often a quick ping will get you back your advocation.
<slytherin> :-D
<geser> slytherin: as your changes were minimal a look at the debdiff was enough for me to check the changes and readvocate.
<slytherin> geser: Thanks. :-)
<tarheelcoxn> I have a pbuilder problem. http://pastebin.com/f59859618 ... Could someone please tell me why the install of the pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy.deb package fails the way it does? more importantly, how do I fix it?
<Jazzva> norsetto, for bug 227577, when you say to just keep Ubuntu package as is and the rest, you mean not to mention Debian's changelog entries?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227577 in imagezoom "Please merge imagezoom 0.3.1-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227577
<norsetto> Jazzva: yes, forget debian, keep the package as an ubuntu one
<norsetto> Jazzva: just bump version to 0.3.1-0ubuntu2 with those changes and its good to go
<Jazzva> norsetto, but maybe it's better to mention it as a merge (true, a big one), and get our version higher than Debian's, which will remove it from MoM.
<DRebellion> tarheelcoxn, I have had a very similar problem today with pbuilder.
<DRebellion> Will post my log
<Jazzva> norsetto, also, when we start merging with Debian at some point in future, their changelog entries we skipped will show up.
<tarheelcoxn> DRebellion: excellent
<DRebellion> http://paste.ubuntu.com/22939/
<DRebellion> Any ideas?
<norsetto> jazzva: so what? It doesn't make any sense to marge with debian if the only diff is that they add the homepage field in debian/control.
<geser> tarheelcoxn: have you universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<geser> DRebellion: the same question for you too ^^
<Jazzva> norsetto, I thought it might be confusing for someone who works later on this (or similar) package, when our and Debian's changelog entries get mixed up.
<DRebellion> geser, I have this in /etc/pbuilderrc: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<DRebellion> geser, I have to go for a short while. tarheelcoxn, I will be interested to see the outcome. ;)
 * tarheelcoxn looks at his rc
<geser> DRebellion: please also check inside your pbuilder: pbuilder login and then "cat /etc/apt/sources.list" and check if universe is also listed
<tarheelcoxn> looks like I only had main enabled
<tarheelcoxn> geser: thanks good catch.
 * tarheelcoxn tries again
<tarheelcoxn> it works this time
<tarheelcoxn> @geser++
<tarheelcoxn> DRebellion: edit your /etc/pbuilderrc and try again
<DRebellion> geser, will do
<DRebellion> geser, hmm, only main is listed
<DRebellion> geser, after I changed the /etc/pbuilderrc , I just did pbuilder update. Should I have created a brand new chroot?
<geser> DRebellion: try pbuilder update --overwrite-config
<DRebellion> geser, I have just edited the /etc/apt/sources.list inside the chroot and am now running apt-get update
<DRebellion> geser, that should fix it, right?
<geser> DRebellion: that works too but only if you do pbuilder login --save-after-login else your changes get discarded
<DRebellion> geser, damn
<DRebellion> geser, okay, will do pbuilder update --overwrite-config
<tarheelcoxn> after I had changed mine I did a sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd
<tarheelcoxn> now I know about --overwrite-config :)
<DRebellion> tarheelcoxn, i believe there is also --override-config
<DRebellion> geser, Error: Unknown option [--overwrite-config] was specified
<geser> DRebellion: then it's --override-config :)
<DRebellion> geser, right
<geser> I didn't look it up in the manpage and apparently remembered it wrongly
<DRebellion> geser, thanks. Its working now. :D
<tarheelcoxn> @geser++
<LimCore> hi, is this a good place to discuss general ubuntu "wish" idea?
<directhex> LimCore, depends. what's your opinion of "patches accepted" as a reply?
<Falken> Hi everyone
<Falken> I'm still looking for MOTUs to review my package. Can someone have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<Falken> thanks in advance !
 * cody-somerville takes a peek.
<cody-somerville> Falken, maintainer field must be a Ubuntu e-mail address if I remember correctly.
<cody-somerville> Falken, see your e-mail to: XSCB-Original-Maintainer
<cody-somerville> and Maintainer to: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> (or whatever it is).
 * ScottK hands Falken and cody-somerville https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<Falken> thanks for the advice, I'm having a look
<ogra> well, only for packages that are actually in debian, no ?
<ScottK> ogra: No.  All packages.
<ogra> huh?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-26
<ogra> who would care ?
<Falken> I'm sorry, you mean I'm not supposed to put my own email address in the maintainer field ?
<ogra> thats only for compliance to an agreement we have with debian
<ogra> you surely wont see me putting XSCB-Original-Maintainer in an ubuntu only package
<cody-somerville> ogra, you have a ubuntu e-mail address?
<ogra> (despite being totally pointless)
<ogra> cody-somerville, sure
<cody-somerville> ogra, and is that the e-mail you put as the maintainer?
<ogra> in the packages i build for ubuntu only i do, yes
<cody-somerville> so you're already following the policy :P
<ogra> h, indeed
<ogra> sorry for the noise then :)
<Falken> flabber is an original package, so ... in this case what should I do ?
<cody-somerville> Falken, since you don't have a Ubuntu e-mail address, set the maintainer to Ubuntu MOTU Developers
<cody-somerville> and set yourself as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<Falken> oh ok I see
<Falken> thank you !
<cody-somerville> No problem. :)
<norsetto> _##(&@_#(%&@+#% took me a minute to find where they have hidden the "subscribe somebody else" button now
<moosepants> Hi guys. Is this the right/wrong channel to ask about a problem I am having backporting a package, and a specific issue I am having with the resultant package?
<crimsun_> as good as any given good debugging information.
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto: i already patched eggdrop with ssl support and uploaded the debdiff  to the merge bug... (in case you where wondering... i told emgent i wanted the merge :) )
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: ok, thanks, have you subscribed u-u-s?
<RoAkSoAx> norsetto: yep :)
<norsetto> RoAkSoAx: perfect
<moosepants> Alright, It comes back to my mission to backport the Subversion 1.5 package put up to Intrepid (by Doku). I have rebuilt his package source under Hardy, and am experiencing an SSL problem, which is a noted bug in the Debian package people. The problem is reportedly an issue with libneon27-gnutls. So I rebuilt my package against libneon26-gnutls, but am experiencing the same issue. Is there something I should look at to find more info on why this
<moosepants> is happneing?\
<tacone> where to ask about python packaging ?
<Falken> ScottK, I just uploaded the modified package, is there a need for a revu admin to sync each time we upload, to actually see it on the website ?
<Falken> Hi tacone, did you check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python ?
<crimsun_> moosepants: what issue?  How have you been debugging (gdb, ...)?
<tacone> Falken: that's my bible but doesn't answers my questions
<Falken> :D
<tacone> ok, switching to #python
<moosepants> crimsun_: I think the issue is with client certificate validation. The server is asking for a resend of the certificate, and something is going wrong somewhere.  http://www.nabble.com/Bug-480041:-subversion:-Breaks-client-certificate-negotiation-td17111865.html details the Debian Bug.
<crimsun_> moosepants: ok, I'll look when I'm less busy.  In the meantime, don't block on me (don't wait for me to respond immediately, as someone else likely will help).
<moosepants> crimsun_: it's ok, i don't spinlock ;)
<Falken> cody-somerville : do you mind checking it again ? :D
<moosepants> Could someone running hardy and the subversion off the repo (1.4.x) please pastebin me an ldd of their /usr/bin/svn?
<Laney> !paste
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<Laney> moosepants: http://paste.ubuntu.com/22976/
<Laney> (amd64)
<moosepants> Laney: Thanks very much :)
<Falken> I'm sorry I'm being impatient with my first package ever :P should I just wait for someone to review it someday ? or hassle everyone with it until it's done ? :D
 * tacone votes for hassling
<swegner> If I want to create a modified version of an ubuntu package for uploading to a PPA, is there a particular naming scheme I should use for the package?
<ScottK> tacone: #python isn't going to know about Debian packaging for Ubuntu.
<ScottK> What's the problem?
<tacone> ScottK: to my knowledge there are 2 chances: packaging with or without distutils.
<ScottK> Yes.
<tacone> ScottK: I had a setup.py problem, including recursively a dir.
<ScottK> If you use distutils it's generally dead easy.
<tacone> I couldn't find anything about it.
<ScottK> How many levels of recursion and why?
<tacone> at least 3 levels of recursion. it's a theme directory. each theme as subdirs. and I would like to not impose limits, as they could require maintenance.
<tacone> ScottK: on the other hand debian/rules should handle that nicely. Am I wrong ?
<ScottK> You can do it in setup.py too.
<tacone> just checked, no I ain't.
<tacone> ScottK: how ?
<tacone> ScottK: to my knowledge I have to write python code to do that.
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> But it's not hard.
<ScottK> For debian/rules you'd have to write shell to do it.  It's about the same.
<tacone> not really
<tacone> I've mistaken
<emgent> hello people
<moosepants> emgent: hello person
<tacone> ScottK: I am trying to adapt the previous package. there's a <packagename>.install file which contains the required dirs
<ScottK> Yes.
<tacone> seems like the list get passed to a cp command or something like that.
<ScottK> I that'd do it too.
<ScottK> mkdir actually.
<ScottK> err, yes.  cp.
<tacone> I have also a .dirs file, which doesn't seem strictly required (but for empy dirs I guess)
<ScottK> Yes.  That's what it's for.
<ScottK> For making directories, not necessarily empty.
<tacone> ScottK: now package installs.but python files are putten in /usr/share/pyshared/<dirname>/*
<tacone> is that correct ?
<ScottK> If you are using python-central, yes.
<tacone> ScottK: yes I am.
<moosepants> Hiy'all, whats the major difference between libneon and libneon-gnutls ??
<crimsun_> moosepants: the former is compiled against OpenSSL; the latter is compiled against GnuTLS.
<moosepants> crimsun_: Why then, would the 1.4 subversion package be compiled against libneon, whereas the 1.5 package in Intrepid (by Matthias), is compiled against libneon-gnutls
<moosepants> I just compiled my 1.5 package against libneon and it works fine
<crimsun_> moosepants: documented in Debian 478142
<ubottu> Debian bug 478142 in subversion "subversion: svn "SSL negotiation failed:" in lenny since 4/15/2008" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/478142
<moosepants> crimsun_: Hmm interestingly I got the same results as Debian 480041 until I switched back to using libneon (openssl). I wonder if I can be bothered tracking this down or just waiting to see what becomes of 480041...
<ubottu> Debian bug 480041 in subversion "subversion: Breaks client certificate negotiation" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/480041
<moosepants> In fact, I think I'll put my findings down in 480041 and see where we go from there. Thanks all.
<tacone> should the ubuntu version number be incremented when packaging a new upstream version ?
<persia> tacone: Typically it should be reset.  For example 0.1-2ubuntu1 becomes 0.1-0ubuntu1 for a direct upstream update.
<persia> Err.  0.2-0ubuntu1
<persia> It's generally considered better to try to coordinate with Debian, and then merge with 0.2-1 creating 0.2-1ubuntu1
<tacone> persia: the package is not from debian
<persia> tacone: In which case, there's no expectation of coordination.  0.2-0ubutnu1 will do fine.  Just attach the diff.gz to a bug, and make sure that orig.tar.gz is generated from debian/rules get-orig-source
<tacone> persia: should I generate the diff even if upstream source structure changed totally ?
<persia> tacone: The diff.gz, not a package diff.
<tacone> err. ok. (gosh) I am going to document my self a little about that.
<persia> tacone: More expansively, the debdiff against the previous version of the package is not likely to be comprehensible, due to upstream changes.  On the other hand, there will still be packaging, so you'll get a diff.gz and an orig.tar.gz. when you build the source package.  It's this diff that is useful for the sponsors.
<tacone> ok
<tacone> thanks
<nxvl> kees: around?
<jeff__> #ubuntu-meeting
<moosepants> if I change my pbuilderrc so that I am building for Feisty for instance (on my Hardy), will this delete all of the packages etc it downloaded for my Hardy pbuild environment?
<moosepants> (Or will they remain in cache)
<persia> moosepants: I don't use pbuilder, so I may be incorrect, but I believe that it supports multiple parallel chroots, as long as you give them different release names.
<moosepants> persia: Thanks. I guess I'll suck it and see
<persia> So you'd do something like pbuilder --create again for Feisty, and then you'd be able to target either environment when you build something.
<persia> What you *really* don't want to do is try changing /etc/apt/sources.list inside pbuilder, which will confuse the link between contents and names.
<moosepants> persia: Yeah I just wondered if I needed to do something so that there was a base.tar.gz for Feisty, and one for Hardy, but it might be clever enough to handle it all internally
<ScottK> In my experience it is, but I don't do it exactly that way, so no promised.
<persia> I think if you have two different base.tar.gz files, you're all set, although no promises, given my unfamiliarity with pbuilder.
<ScottK> promised/promises.
<moosepants> We'll see... Cheers
<nxvl> Amaranth: you are the man i was looking for!
<nxvl> Amaranth: i need some help on graphics programming
<nxvl> Amaranth: i need an easy way to do a ball which moves on a b-spline curve
<nxvl> (prefered in python, but not limited to)
<wgrant> ScottK: /me chokes. Does somebody really think they can get ClamAV into main?
<ScottK> wgrant: Yes.  I was sitting next to kees when I brought it up at UDS and he didn't even hit me.
<ScottK> wgrant: Bottom line is that it'll be painful, but if we want to be taken seriously as a server distro, Canonical needs to suck it up and support it.
<wgrant> ScottK: I can't see how it can even slightly be considered.
<wgrant> If we have to backport every minor upstream release to every series...
 * persia suspects ScottK of being the person who ends up sucking up and supporting it
<wgrant> ScottK: How do other distros do it? Backport new versions?
<ScottK> That's how opensuse does it.
<ScottK> They don't seem to worry about what it breaks.
<wgrant> Maybe some almighty Canonical folks can talk sense into ClamAV folks?
 * ScottK has some hopes on that front.
<wgrant> And maybe I should attack the Intel driver in Intrepid for reducing my monitor brightness often.
<ScottK> That's probably not even the most shocking MIR that will be in the stack.
 * ScottK just finished a MIR for Sendmail.
<wgrant> What's worse?
<wgrant> WHy!? Milters need it?
<ScottK> Yes.
<wgrant> Haha.
<ScottK> Promote the source and libmilter
<wgrant> They couldn't be split?
<ScottK> Then I can unsplit amavisd-new and don't have to split clamav.
<ScottK> Since the binary stays in Universe no split is needed.
<ScottK> I discussed it with pitti today and he was OK with no split.
<wgrant> OK.
<ScottK> With clamav we probably want to roll to new versions if we can do it safely as even with security patches, the old versions don't find viruses very well.
<ScottK> So the big thing is getting the regression testing right.
<wgrant> I suspect you'll be asked to write some thorough qa-regression-tests suites for it...
<ScottK> Many of the libclamav rdepends are unmaintained/minimally maintained in Debian, so I'm going to see about getting them removed.
<ScottK> Actually kees already has one that's pretty decent.
<wgrant> That's an interesting way to solve it.
<wgrant> I saw it.
<wgrant> It's pretty basic, but covers things like RARs and mboxes...
<ScottK> The trick here is that clamd has a stable interface and so is safe to update, but libclamav does not.
<ScottK> So if the packages that use libclamav are either robustly maintained or removed, then jumping versions isn't so hard.
<wgrant> Right.
<ScottK> My record on that so far is pretty good.
<wgrant> Does the interface really need to change, or are they just doing it to be annoying or not knowing what they're doing?
<ScottK> I got two complaints taking dapper from 0.88 to 0.92 and none updating Feisty and Gutsy.
<wgrant> Not bad.
<persia> What broke in Dapper?
<ScottK> Their position is "We aren't 1.0 yet, so we can do whatever we want."
<wgrant> ScottK: Are they ever going to go 1.0?
<ScottK> There was a function that python-clamav dropped due to a clamav change that broke a custom 3rd party package and one person had a dansguardian configuration problem.
<ScottK> wgrant: WINE went 1.0.  Anything can happen.
<wgrant> ScottK: True.
<ScottK> The python-clamav problem was solved by packaging and backporting python-pyclamd that did something similar.
<persia> ScottK: Ah good.  Local issues only.
<ScottK> Yes.  We tested the cr@p out of it and the rdpends before jumping back to Dapper.
<wgrant> I'm not sure I like seeing this in an upstream changelog: 'Dates can now be in the year-range 1-9999'
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm sure the users appreciate it deep down
<wgrant> I wonder what on earth they're doing that means implementing their own date storage format...
<ajmitch> if they even knew what the issues where
<ScottK> The guy with the dansguardian problem asked me what the heck had motivated us to update.  I said 19 fixed CVEs and he thanked me even though it broke his sysytem.
<wgrant> It should probably be noted somewhere prominent in the packaging that such updates will occur...
<wgrant> (and why)
<persia> Package long description even?
<wgrant> That is one place I was thinking of.
<ScottK> Except that clamav is currently a sync from Debian.  I'd like to keep it that way and they handle it differently.
<ScottK> sgran just points at volatile.
 * ScottK had a grave bug filed against the klamav package in etch (I'm the maintainer) that it didn't work with the packages from volatile.
 * ScottK closed it.
<ajmitch> grave? that's interesting, to say the least
<ajmitch> saying that a release version doesn't work when you upgrade stuff underneath it
<ScottK> I don't think the reporter understood different repos.
<ScottK> I tried to explain it in a reasonably nice way.
<Gralco> how do i edit .bashrc
<wgrant> Gralco: By asking in #ubuntu. This isn't a support channel.
<tacone> I can't figure out how to procede when dealing with a new upstream version. It has a complete different source tree. I can successfully build it with pbuilder, but I don't know how to generate the diff from the previous package. I also can't figure out reading the wiki.
<tacone> does anyone has some url to read or the time to indicate me the right route ?
<ScottK> tacone: When you make the source pacakge (debuild -S -sa) that will produce the diff.gz you need to provide.
<tacone> ScottK: do I need an original tarball somewhere to base the diff on ?
<ScottK> You will need to have it locally, but the MOTU that reviews the package will fetch it from upstream themselves.
<tacone> ScottK: a pastebin is worth thousand words. http://pastebin.com/m17d5b16b is that ok ?
<tacone> should I keep memaker-0.9.4 and ï»¿memaker-0.9.5 in the same dir like that ?
<ScottK> That's not a problem.  You want to provide the 0.9.5 version of memaker_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<ScottK> It's way late here, so I need to get to bed.
<tacone> ok, good night.
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: hi!
<ajmitch> hello
<dholbach> hi nxvl, hi ajmitch
<nxvl> dholbach: i was thinking today while reading a lot of mails
<nxvl> dholbach: for intrepid we have a lot of contributors (more than i see for hardy)
<nxvl> and the sponsoring queue is growing and growing
<nxvl> it may be because the old devs are focused on 8.04.1, but since your work is to bring more developers i feel like i need to talk to you abut this
<nxvl> since the queue is a bottle neck for some new contributors
<persia> nxvl: That is always the way, for each release.  Since feisty, the sponsor queues have grown faster in each release.
<nxvl> persia: yes, but last release was manageable
<dholbach> nxvl: I realised this too and am going to push for more sponsoring and more review
<wgrant> The queue is fairly short now.
<wgrant> We're at least keeping up.
<nxvl> persia: this time is growing at surprising speed
<persia> nxvl: As will this release.  It tends to be worst a little before DIF, and then get much better.  It gets messy again around betafreeze, and then gets better
<nxvl> dholbach: maybe (as i raised the idea earlier on the cicle) there can be some sponsor days, as we have (or use to) revu days
<persia> nxvl: For me, each release since feisty has grown faster than the previous.  I'm not surprised, but it is fast.
<persia> nxvl: We discussed sponsoring days in the past, and even tried it for a bit.
<nxvl> persia: yes, but for example i have a diff waiting since 30 Abril
<persia> The finding was that scheduled sponsoring days reduced regular sponsoring by the sponsors.
<persia> nxvl: Which queue?
<nxvl> main one
<persia> Right.
<nxvl> Bug #225005
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225005 in gnupg "Please merge gnupg 1.4.6-2.1 from debian sid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225005
<persia> Someone ought sort the main queue, and have a process :)
<slangasek> if you mean the gnupg merge, well, I think I need to be more proactive about refusing merges that dholbach assigns to me
<slangasek> at least during 8.04.1, I just haven't had any time to get to them all :/
<nxvl> slangasek: i'm not complaining about you, just the whole process, it was just the first example which comes to my mind
<nxvl> slangasek: sorry if you understand otherwise
<slangasek> nxvl: well, I'm suggesting that I may not be representative of the process either
<slangasek> I suspect that currently, most of the main sponsors are doing a much better job than I am personally
<nxvl> and also i'm not trying to say that the people aren't doing a good job
<nxvl> because thay are
<nxvl> i have got packages sponsored really fast
<persia> slangasek: For main, it has historically depended heavily on the specific package, with some packages getting sponsored quickly, and some bugs languishing in the queue for over six months.
<nxvl> but the number of contributor are growing to fast now
<nxvl> and based on what persia said it will grow more for intrepid+1
<slangasek> well, if it's a question of the number of contributors growing too fast, then I think we need a better model than having each of them repeatedly requesting individual sponsorship for package uploads...
<wgrant> Hopefully the number of MOTU will also grow.
<persia> Personally, I'm of the opinion that Ubuntu has outgrown main/universe, and that this is part of the issue.
<wgrant> persia: We have a spec to solve that, as I believe you've seen.
<persia> wgrant: Yep.
<dholbach> it will always require people willing to review and sponsor :)
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, and there is where i was going
<persia> slangasek: It's mostly an issue for those packages that aren't cared for by a specific team, and are just in main.  Nobody tends to merge those patches, and as a result, it gets skewed.
<slangasek> nxvl: oh, actually, I'm afraid <sigh> that your merge in 225005 is no longer valid, it's against a version of gnupg that's no longer in the Debian archive :/  Could you update to a more recent version (either current testing, or current unstable), or do you want me to fish -2.1 out of snapshot.debian.net?
<nxvl> dholbach: you are making a wonderful job making new people come into the community, but you have somehow forgot developers, and making them review and sponsor
<persia> We've had a couple people be mostly main sponsors, but not for very long each: it's not always clear whether any given package fits into that category.
<dholbach> nxvl: I haven't forgotten that - I look at the queue every day and poke people every day
<dholbach> but I agree that we need more efforts there
<wgrant> nxvl: Unfortunately we can't really be made to sponsor, and it's not always the funnest of tasks.
<slangasek> persia: I'm saying that if the number of contributors is growing fast enough that they're overloading the sponsorship queue in general, then having more sponsors is not a very appropriate answer, because you eventually run into scalability problems there too (problems that can be mitigated by ubiquitous revision control, but we're not there yet)
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, that i know, remember that i'm always in that queue, and i always see your comments first
<nxvl> dholbach: but it will we awesome if more people like you triage the bugs on the sposoring queue
<wgrant> NMSP would make everything very nice, slangasek.
<slangasek> NMSP?
<Hobbsee> no more source packages.
<persia> slangasek: ubiquitous version control doesn't solve it alone, as most of the potential contributors aren't likely to look at the same package twice, so wouldn't have VCS access.
<wgrant> Everything done in a VCS.
<Hobbsee> certainly, looking at why we have inactive people, particularly in teh areas of sponsoring, would be a good idea.
<persia> If it's just proposed branches, that might make sponsoring simpler for some people, but it still leaves sponsoring to be done.
<wgrant> slangasek: It was an Ubuntu/Launchpad spec some time ago, but it seems to have faded into distant memory.
<Hobbsee> but i say that as a case of 'armchair development'
<slangasek> persia: I'm just saying that there's a built-in scalabilty limit to the "one contributor, one sponsored upload" model, which is that at some point you have too high a rate of collisions between multiple uploads being prepared at the same time.
<persia> slangasek: Understood.  We've rarely had that conflct: the conflict is more often that someone who could sponsor doesn't bother to check if there is anything available to sponsor and duplicates the work.
<persia> That said, as we grow, we may encounter that issue.
<nxvl> also if the contributors continue growing more than the MOTU's (which is an obvious bahavior) you will have more problems
<nxvl> and you will end with a the MOTU's just reviewing the contributors work
<nxvl> and not making things done
<persia> nxvl: More problems, or just more unsponsored upload candidates?
<nxvl> which is also a bad thing
<nxvl> persia: i mean if we start trying to have more sponsors
<persia> nxvl: We've traditionally had about three times as many contributors as members of ubuntu-dev.  If about 10% of ubuntu-dev does sponsoring, we tend to keep up.
<persia> (with exceptions, and occasional lapses)
<nxvl> well, yes
<nxvl> but the thing is that some work is needed on these side
<nxvl> s/side/front/
<persia> If we're seeing faster relative growth of contributors than ubuntu-dev (e.g. more than 3:1 new starter rate), I suspect the problem is that there is some issue with people joining MOTU, and would like to see that addressed.
<nxvl> and it also isn't a good idea to depend on dholbach doing to
<nxvl> something is needed
<nxvl> and we need to thing about why and how
<persia> nxvl: I don't: I'm one of the UUS admins, and wrote the UUS policy.  That said, I think there could be improvement in UMS, but am not sure of the right solution given the sensitivity of some packages.
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> UMS is more sensitive and not much new contributors use it
<persia> UUS lags sometimes, but I don't think the issue is growth, but rather interest.  I've seen less traffic in this channel during this release cycle than any previous, which makes me wonder about activity.
<nxvl> i'm thing more on UUS
 * dholbach takes a look at creox and vtk
 * wgrant has been far too inactive recently.
 * persia thinks UUS is doing OK, if it maybe has a few days of lag
<persia> Or maybe not.  Three weeks is a little long.  Still, I expect it to catch up soonish.
 * Hobbsee vaguely wonders how to make MOTU, and sponsorship, more interesting.
<nxvl> that's what i'm saying
<nxvl> is not that it's doing wrong
<nxvl> just that in not a far away future it won't be enought
<nxvl> and better to start thinking on how to better it now that later
<wgrant> We could use the Canonical mind control ray to steal DDs.
<nxvl> heh
<persia> That hasn't tended to improve MOTU activity in the past though.
<nxvl> why it must be so funny when someone mentions DD's in this channel
<Hobbsee> persia: no, as they tend to get paid to work on a specific part of main
<wgrant> That wasn't the mind control ray I was thinking of.
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, I was thinking that DDs not already hopelessly busy tend to have a focus on specific packages, rather than hitting tens or hundreds as MOTU tend to do.
<Hobbsee> persia: true
<Hobbsee> persia: i wonder if our MOTU's have transitioned to act more like DD's, then.
<persia> Some of them seem to have done so.
<wgrant> TIL can induce that.
<Hobbsee> i guess it's natural that most would, though
<persia> Personally I feel that concepts like "touched-it-last" and "ping the last uploader" and "assigned merges" have contributed to that.
<persia> Part of why I dislike all of those.
<nxvl> persia: but to "split" one or other way the MOTU team into subteam will also make it more scalable
<wgrant> nxvl: Perhaps - we'll see what happens if the archive is reorganised...
<persia> nxvl: We did a lot of that in Feisty, and it didn't tend to work.
<nxvl> well i mean to do subgroups like pythonistas
<Hobbsee> wgrant: that won't really affect motu, though?
<nxvl> not to split the archive
<Hobbsee> well, it will a bit with flavours, but not otherwise.
<persia> Hobbsee: Well, it affects MOTU in that it's about upload permission, but it oughtn't affect MOTU targets.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: It will take a few large chunks of packages and give them a set of specific uploaders of significant size
<persia> nxvl: That's exactly the sorts of subgroups we used in Feisty.  Most of them were dead teams in Gutsy, and there were lots of complaints about lack of active MOTU.
<nxvl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams
<nxvl> like this
<nxvl> i don't think even the half of them are active
<wgrant> As persia said, that seems to generally fail.
<wgrant> Regrettably.
<wgrant> Because it should have been a good idea.
<wgrant> It seems to work in Debian.
<persia> It certainly sounded good.
<persia> I think it works in Debian because it is bringing people together, rather than splitting them apart.
<nxvl> hyeh
<persia> I think there is value to having ubuntu-python, ubuntu-ruby, ubuntu-java, etc.
<nxvl> yes it could be
<persia> I think there is also value in having MOTU.  On the wiki, on the Teams page, MOTU is described as the QA developers.
<persia> We are the people who fix the bugs in all the packages that aren't getting enough attention: some of these packages have no Ubuntu maintainer, some just aren't watched carefully enough.
<nxvl> yes
<pwnguin> which packages have ubuntu maintainers?
<persia> I like to think of MOTU as being a sort of super Debian QA team, with every day being open for 0-day NMUs.
<wgrant> pwnguin: Those will be more obvious once the reorganisation occurs.
<nxvl> well, i tend to watch the packages i'm interested in back from debian
<persia> pwnguin: Some packages are specifically maintained by the Desktop team or the Mobile team or the Kubuntu team, etc.  Most packages don't have specific maintainer teams.
<persia> wgrant: For some subset of packages, it is encoded in the Maintainer field of the source package...
<pwnguin> so mostly main
<nxvl> pwnguin: nop
<persia> pwnguin: Well, not those maintained by the Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, or Xubuntu Studio teams.
<nxvl> pwnguin: there are a lot of packages maintained by those teams on universe
<persia> nxvl: Good point.  Desktop and Server teams both have a few packages in universe, don't they?
<pwnguin> so we do have successful teams in MOTU
<wgrant> persia: True, but that's not overly reliable.
<nxvl> persia: yes we have
<persia> wgrant: True.
<pwnguin> they're just not what you thought they'd look like
<nxvl> most of my contributions to the server team are in universe
<persia> pwnguin: Which?  You mean the flavour teams?  None tend to be exclusively MOTU.
<dholbach> so a quick round of feedback: what keeps YOU from doing sponsoring right now? :-)
 * persia has a long list of things needing to be done, and keeps leaving sponsoring near the bottom
<dholbach> all you upload-privileged folks in here :-)
<nxvl> dholbach: i'm not a motu :D
 * RAOF is actually looking at aptoncd sponsorship right now, but generally it's time or the lack thereof.
<Gralco> I wish I know a think or two about package managing
<nxvl> dholbach: and don't have upload privileges
<nxvl> :P
<Gralco> knew*
<wgrant> dholbach: It's not the most interesting of tasks, and what limited time I have at the moment goes to other tasks.
<nxvl> Gralco: it's not hard
<RAOF> Also, there's a fair amount of context switching involved in sponsoring other people's packages.  I need get up to speed with the current package, what needs to be done, _and_ work out how it's been done.
<Gralco> well your probably much older than me
<nxvl> Gralco: it just need one or 3 weeks of dedicated work playing, reading and learning, and then just practica
<nxvl> Gralco: don't bet
<Gralco> me and dedication are not very good friends
<Gralco> although I've tried
<dholbach> but you've all done sponsoring before - do you think anything changed along the way?
<nxvl> Gralco: same here
<nxvl> Gralco: but it's really funny
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> Gralco: also you can see dholbach's videos
<Gralco> nxvl wanna help me
<nxvl> Gralco: they are very intructive
<Gralco> I think I have
<nxvl> Gralco: well, since you are here i think you are in europe or some tz near
<Gralco> I got lost, I understand gpg pretty well
<nxvl> Gralco: i use to be here until this time
<nxvl> it's 1 o'clock here
<Gralco> I live in the US
<Gralco> 2 here
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> so i can
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> but not now
<Gralco> huh
<nxvl> i will go sleep in a bit
<Gralco> oh
<nxvl> dholbach: not me
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> did someone know a ToDo list tool that manages priority?
<pwnguin> evolution
<pwnguin> it integrates into the gnome clock too
<nxvl> to bloat for todo list
<pwnguin> na
 * nxvl give it a try
<Gralco> what does UDS do
<pwnguin> it has progress, categories, due dates and more. it doesn't have bloat, it has features ;)
 * nxvl doesn't find the priorities
<pwnguin> the default is not good for mere mortals
<pwnguin> theres a column you can add
<pwnguin> just right click on the coluumn tabs
<pwnguin> it only supports 3 priorities but
<pwnguin> you could file a bug asking for closer compliance with LP status
<nxvl> i only need 3 priorities
<nxvl> well, maybe whislist
<nxvl> but 3 are fine
<nxvl> i can use low as whislist
<pwnguin> i saw a tech talk at google about assigning a dollar value to your todo list
<nxvl> mm
<pwnguin> and maybe an hour weight
<nxvl> but i can't see priorities on gclock
<nxvl> mm, still now what i was looking for
<nxvl> but i seems closer that having 3 Sticky notes
<pwnguin> thats a good point. the default sorting order seems to use due ddates
<pwnguin> its a very corporate rules and managemant based program
<nxvl> yep
<pwnguin> life has no due date
<persia> Oh, it has one, just most of the ink has washed away, so it's hard to read
<nxvl> i want just to see all my ToDo task in the order i write them and separate by priorities
<pwnguin> was there a meeting going on about the long term health of motu?
<persia> Not a meeting.  Just people talking.
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> just nxvl making noice
<nxvl> :D
<pwnguin> hope i didnt interrupt anything
<nxvl> and some people taking notice
<nxvl> :P
<persia> nxvl: No, it's good to make noise if something bothers you.  I only wish everyone did.
<nxvl> persia: yes, i was just trying to be funny, i kind of sleepy now
<persia> Not that every problem is soluable, but it's at least easier to understand a problem when it's expressed.
<pwnguin> you know what bothers me? the terrible developer support tools in ubuntu
<wgrant> pwnguin: Like?
<persia> pwnguin: What tools would you like?
<pwnguin> eclipse CDT
<wgrant> Oh, so not Ubuntu developers.
<pwnguin> wgrant: thats not entirely true
<persia> pwnguin: Oh, you mean the programs shipped have issues?  That needs bugs and patches :)
<pwnguin> persia: that needs more than MOTU can provide, but i think motu feels the pain
<wgrant> pwnguin: Why does it affect us
<wgrant> *?
<wgrant> We don't often develop applications, and particularly not with strange memory-hogging IDEs.
<pwnguin> because you're losing people interested and potentially productive
<nxvl> persia: yes, i find more usefull to talk about the problem that just complain about it at some point
<wgrant> pwnguin: Application development on Ubuntu != development of Ubuntu.
<pwnguin> wgrant: take a look at pdebuild
<wgrant> Eclipse has little application to MOTU.
<wgrant> pwnguin: What does it do?
<persia> pwnguin: It's a balance.  That said, perhaps you'd like to coordinate a general effort to improve the development tools avialable in Ubuntu, working with upstreams and maintainers to get them as good as they can be?
<pwnguin> the description seems pretty clear
<pwnguin> persia: the trouble is going to be finding like minded individuals
<pwnguin> I dont think wgrant is alone in his opinion
<persia> pwnguin: That's just marketing.
<pwnguin> i hate that word, when used as an euphamism for advertising
<persia> It's not advertising alone though.
 * nxvl doesn't like eclipse
<persia> I agree it's a malapropism, but don't have a better word.
<nxvl> i try not to use Java aplications
<directhex> monodevelop!
 * nxvl is getting sick
<pwnguin> persia: but seriously, the eclipse problems are endemic; i've documented a small portion of it here: http://jldugger.livejournal.com/6274.html
<nxvl> why to use and IDE if i can use VIM?
<directhex> better memory footprint than eclipse, can't argue with that
<directhex> nxvl, GUI design, easy breakpointing, code completion, section folding?
<nxvl> i have glade
<pwnguin> directhex: i met a guy last week who refused to upgrade from 7.10 because monodevelop wasn't meeting his needs. i need to talk more with him about it
<nxvl> the others vim supports them
<nxvl> also
<nxvl> i don't make GUI development
<directhex> some of us can just about remember ctrl-x and ctrl-v for cutnpaste, but not much eyond that
<wgrant> pwnguin: So, um, I'm still failing to see what these Eclipse issues have to do with Ubuntu.
<wgrant> directhex: THen you're probably not going to have much success remembering how to code.
<nxvl> you still have a mouse and middle click
<StevenK> Presumably we should just fix them. Apparently.
<pwnguin> wgrant: developers are your best fountain for new MOTU, no?
<directhex> pwnguin, i'd want to hear about that
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> need to sleep
<nxvl> see you
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> i was almost forgeting
<directhex> wgrant, i generally need an API reference open at all times
<StevenK> pwnguin: New MOTU -> Developers -/> Eclipse ?
<nxvl> dholbach: did you try to bouild augeas?
<directhex> the joys of vodka as a student
<nxvl> build*
<wgrant> Hmmm, did KDE devs take over GNOME for Intrepid? I just found... a nested menu.
<StevenK> pwnguin: Most developers I know wouldn't touch Eclipse with a large barge pole
<wgrant> (in Applications)
<wgrant> StevenK: Same.
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> i think he isn't here
<pwnguin> StevenK: is that because it sucks, or because they wouldn't even want to end up where it's supposed to be going?
<nxvl> dholbach: if you try to build it and build/fails, please drop me an email. Thanks!
<StevenK> pwnguin: Because they don't need or want an IDE.
<nxvl> good night!
<dholbach> nxvl: will do
<persia> pwnguin: Typically people who are good upstream developers are not also good package maintainers: there are different concerns for each activity, and by working collaboratively, the two tend to create a better final product.
<nxvl> and have a nice day
<wgrant> What does an IDE give me that Vim doesn't?
<wgrant> Other than bloat?
<nxvl> dholbach: oh! so you didn't have change to test it yesterday?
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> if you find some time to do it today, let me know :D
<persia> wgrant: GUI Integration.
 * nxvl HUGS dholbach 
<wgrant> persia: For developing GUIs, you mean?
<moosepants> wgrant: I dont care about you in particular. However, many companies employing grad students use eclispe because the students are very familiar with it. Thats a sizable market for Ubuntu, that might go elsewhere to get the Eclipse support
<pwnguin> i think i've not commiunicated something essential here: I'm not saying existing MOTU should use eclipse.
<wgrant> If I'm using Vim there's no GUI to integrate with.
<persia> wgrant: I mean little clicky buttons to build your project with the target build system, launch the debugger, etc.
 * persia uses vim
<StevenK> But we just take upstream Eclipse ...
<wgrant> moosepants: Are these problems Ubuntu-specific?
<nxvl> persia: true, maintaining a package and developing one are 2 REALLY different tasks
<wgrant> persia: Oh goody. Clicky click click.
<persia> nxvl: Yep, but complementary.
<nxvl> persia: indeed
<wgrant> Programmers have to write code, so why do so many have a phobia of typing in their editor?
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> well, you'd be offended by my latest idea then
<persia> wgrant: One doesn't need to write code with an advanced IDE.  One only draws the widgets, drags the actions, and uses the default autobuilder.
<wgrant> I'm offended by a lot of GUIs which make things 'easier'.
<wgrant> persia: Ew. No.
<pwnguin> im all for 'easier'
<persia> I've even seen some that let you draw UML, and develop the application on your behalf.
<pwnguin> unless you had some ironic meaning behind easier
<StevenK> So have I, but not under Linux, thankfully.
<persia> pwnguin: As someone who has used a number of different UML -> code generators, I find vim easier: at least I can track down a bug.
 * pwnguin hates UML
<pwnguin> but thats another story
<persia> pwnguin: But surely it's easier to draw some interfaces and state diagrams than to write code...
<moosepants> Hometime Ciao
<wgrant> pwnguin: I quoted 'easier' for a reason.
<wgrant> pwnguin: I don't see how searching around to work out which icon means "Build damnit" or whatever should be any easier than typing 'make', for a programmer.
<pwnguin> unless its' ant
<pwnguin> or scons
<wgrant> pwnguin: But then you've probably made an infrastructure choice mistake.
<lifeless> :)
<pwnguin> ive done nothing of the sort, but upstream may have
<persia> pwnguin: If upstream did that, you probably wanted make anyway, to parse debian/rules
<pwnguin> true
<pwnguin> i'll put it on my todo to write a coherent essay on why build tools lead to a better ubuntu above and beyond fixing a few bugs in eclipse or whatnot ;)
<\sh> moins
<wgrant> pwnguin: Shouldn't one lobby the Eclipse developers to fix Eclipse?
<devfil> persia: are you ready to review a package similar to wxwidgets2.8?
<persia> devfil: Not at all.  Which package?
 * persia is a little frightened
<devfil> persia: crystalspace, I'm working to make it human..
<pwnguin> wgrant: yes. but even the project lead is lobbying Eclipse developers to fix eclipse :(
<wgrant> pwnguin: So it's unlikely to haelp if we do.
<wgrant> devfil: That would be very good, but brave.
<devfil> wgrant: I'm working to fix some lintian warnings and I've done
<persia> devfil: I'll wish you luck.  I can't say I'm as familiar with that as I am with WX, so I'm not sure how well I can review it.
<devfil> persia: if wx required 3 MOTUs, this will require a review of almost 6 MOTUs
<persia> devfil: Maybe, but at least this doesn't have as many rdepends :)
<devfil> persia: sure :)
<tacone> hello, I am trying to figure out how produce a diff.gz anyone willing to help me ?
<persia> tacone: Sure.
<tacone> oh, nice.
<persia> My memory is that you were updating an existing package.  Is that correct?
<tacone> persia: yes.
<tacone> persia: but the source changed a lot
<persia> Does the package already have an get-orig-source rule?
<tacone> persia: totally different dir structure.
<tacone> persia: I don't see it in debian/rules
<persia> tacone: Doesn't really matter what happened upstream: that can be mitigatd.
<persia> Right.  OK, first step is to create a get-orig-source rule in debian/rules
<persia> This rule should construct an orig.tar.gz file based on the newest available upstream.
<persia> Is there a watch file?
<tacone> persia: no watch file
<persia> OK.  How does upstream distribute the code?
<tacone> launchpad
<tacone> bzr branch
<persia> Does upstream distribute tarballs for the project releases?
<tacone> let me check
<tacone> persia: not yet.
<persia> tacone: OK.  First step is to get them to do that.
<persia> It's important that there is a single official upstream tarball.  Not having that leads to lots of confusion if the package ever gets into any other distribution.
<tacone> persia: am I blocked until then ?
<persia> tacone: Not completely, but likely.  Some sponsors will upload with an untrusted orig.tar.gz, but most won't, and very few will before there's evidence of discussion with upstream to try to get one.
<tacone> persia: couldn't we simulate I have a tarball and go through the steps anyway ?
<tacone> persia: I can obtain a tarball later, just asking for that. I know the upstream author.
<persia> tacone: OK, but you'll need to create the tarball.
<tacone> I will.
<tacone> persia: I did one before with debuild I guess
<tacone> in one of my previous attempts. looks fine.
<persia> tacone: No, you need to do one with tar.  It's an upstream tarball.
<tacone> ok
<tacone> how should I call it ? .orig ?
<tacone> persia: should I call it memaker-0.9.5 or memaker-0.9.5.orig ?
<persia> tacone: You want memaker_0.9.5.orig.tar.gz
<tacone> err, yes
<tacone> ok done
<tacone> persia: another question before we proceed. the current mantainer is peter savage. shuold I keep it or change it to ubuntu-motu ?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: currently, my answer to that is that i have limited time, and i've got other stuff that i'd like to see happen.  at this point, a lot of that is outside of ubuntu.  That being said, i've not forgotten how messy the sponsorship queue used to get, and it's low S/N ratio, and it's somewhat hard to get beyond that.  ie, i don't want to waste time on it, if it's not actually in order.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: do you have the feeling that a lot of proposed patches still need more work?
<kahrytan> Hello
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i have the feeling of that, yes, having seen them last cycle.  However, i've not looked at it this cycle, and things may have changed - as in, hopefully those people from last cycle have become more clueful, and the people who are new also have some level of clue.
<kahrytan> has anyone seen DreamLinux's installer>
<Hobbsee> kahrytan: wrong place.  we don't write the installer.
<kahrytan> then who?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: right now I have the feeling that we've a LOT OF GOOD STUFF in the sponsoring queue - I don't have to ping people back a lot
<Hobbsee> kahrytan: evand is the installer guy.  he might not be up yet.
<dholbach> there's also #ubuntu-installer
<wgrant> Wow. That's impressively outdated.
<wgrant> They have Beryl.
<persia_ume> tacone: My apologies: I'm having an IO storm.  Did you get the orig.tar.gz?
<tacone> yes
<persia_ume> Great.  Next step is to try to apply the old diff.gz against the new upstream.  First thing to do is look to see
<persia_ume> what is in the diff.gz.  Check to see if there is anything outside debian/ with lsdiff -z
<tacone> guess I am already lost
<persia_ume> tacone: You have the old diff.gz, right?
<tacone> persia_ume:  memaker_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.diff.gz ?
<persia_ume> Right.  Inspect that file with lsdiff -z
<tacone> nothing outside debian. seems natural, the previous version was the initial packaging.
<persia_ume> tacone: OK.  Anything in debian/patches ?
<tacone> nothing.
<tacone> persia_ume:  http://pastebin.com/m4f7a13cc
<persia_ume> Great.  Now untar the upstream tarball into a directory with the name memaker-0.9.5
<tacone> ok
 * persia_ume wants the mouse pointer to stop shifting every 10 seconds, and Alt-F2 to actually be received :(
<tacone> persia_ume: untarring the new one ?
<tacone> 0.9.5 or 0.9.4 ?
<persia_ume> Now, in the upstream directory, run zcat ../memaker*diff.gz | patch -p1
<persia_ume> The new one.
<tacone> no new /debian for now ?
<persia_ume> tacone: You'll want to start from the old debian/, which is in the old diff.gz, which the above command wil a
<persia_ume> will apply
<tacone> I ran ï»¿zcat ../memaker*diff.gz | patch -p1
<persia_ume> and now you have a debian/ directory?
<tacone> guess I missed on change of dir
<tacone> trying again
<tacone> ok
<persia_ume> You want to run the command in memaker-0.9.5/
<tacone> I have debian now
<tacone> yes
<persia_ume> next, you want to update the changelog.  use dch -i
<tacone> ok
<persia_ume> Change the version to 0.9.5-0ubuntu1, the target to hardy, and add your known changes.
 * RAOF thinks persia_ume may mean "Intrepid"
<persia_ume> Err.  Yes :)
<persia_ume> muscle memory is a frustrating thing.
<tacone> persia this is ok ?
<tacone>   * Upstream source directory structure changed.
<tacone>   * Now depends from python2.5 See: LP: #214401
<Gralco> can anyone help me with trying to get into the motu team
<persia_ume> I'd have said "New Upstream Version" for the first line, but otherwise, yes.
<tacone> persia: http://pastebin.com/m294d3ccc
<tacone> do I miss any blank line or some formatting ?
<persia_ume> Gralco: Best way is to start fixing bugs.
<tacone> persia_ume: done
<Gralco> persia_ume how do I do that, I have already triage some
<persia_ume> tacone: Due to a bug that I thought was fixed, I don't have a good way to tell right now.  Let's assume it to be correct.
<tacone> persia_ume: ok
<persia_ume> Gralco: Of the bugs you triaged, do you understand any well enough to fix the code to not have the bug?
<persia_ume> tacone: Next, review debian/rules to see if the build commands are still correct.
<Gralco> persia_eme: no not really
<persia_ume> Gralco: That will be the first step then.
<tacone> persiai don't have enough knowledge to understand them, but I didn't change the rules, and it builded on pbuilder
<Gralco> persia_ume: how do fix the code for the bug
<persia_ume> Gralco: It depends on the bug, but usually with a text editor.
<tacone> something wrong in the rules.
<persia_ume> tacone: OK.  Next is to review debian/copyright and make sure the licensing is still correct.
<Gralco> persia_ume: but how would i know what to change in the code
<tacone> persia_ume: http://pastebin.com/m5dc596c4
<tacone> look at line 28 to 31
<tacone> is that required even with pycentral ?
<tacone> and btw I changed that path.
<persia_ume> Gralco: Understand the bug.  Read the code.  Experiment.
<tacone> the copyright seems correct.
 * Hobbsee looks at this list.
<Gralco> perrsia_ume: is there a with fix a bug
<persia> tacone: OK.  If you're confident with those, take a look at debian/control to see if anything needs tweaking.  Changing to python2.5 might have an impact (and might not)
<tacone> persia: python2.5 should be ok
<tacone> persian should I copy paste the new debian/control ?
<tacone> persia: shuold I keep the original mantainer ?
<persia> tacone: Is the maintainer not MOTU?
<tacone> Pete Savage <petesavage@ubuntu.com>
<tacone> persia: also, I already have tweaked the /debian dir (using the previous one as the base)
<tacone> shuold I simply copy in the changed files ?
<persia> If the Maintainer isn't MOTU, you should talk to the maintainer: there is typically a reason for that.
<persia> What files changed, beyond changelog?
<tacone> memaker.install, control
<tacone> I wiped memaker.dirs
<tacone> nothing more.
<persia> OK.  If you're sure about those changes, no reason you can't reapply them.  Just be sure.
<tacone> sure
<Hobbsee> dholbach: right.  done 2 (which close 2 other bugs too)
<persia> Once you are done, you can create the updated source package with debuild -S -us -uc
 * dholbach high-fives Hobbsee :)
<tacone> persia: ok. here we are. now ?
<persia> tacone: Look in the parent directory.  There should be a diff.gz
<tacone> oh
<tacone> I missed you're last msg
<tacone> n
<james_w> hi siretart, we're you planning to work on the backuppc merge, or would you like me to take it>
<dholbach> james_w: regarding bug 242781 - should we be able to sync the package soon again?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242781 in cedar-backup2 "cedar-backup2 2.18.0-1ubuntu1 FTBFS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242781
<tacone> persia: I have a pair of warnings
<james_w> dholbach: yup, next Debian upload, as long as that doesn't break anything.
<tacone> persia: http://pastebin.com/m330dc715
<dholbach> james_w: do you think you can point that out in the changelog (if the case should ever occur to you again?) :-)
<dholbach> james_w: makes it easier for the next person to do a merge :)
<dholbach> anyway - no big deal - taking a look at it now :)
<tacone> persia: BTW. I have now  memaker_0.9.5-0ubuntu1.diff.gz. is that the only thing I need to upload in launchpad ?
<james_w> dholbach: sure, I was just wary of claiming something that may not be true later on. A good dose of hedging should cover me though.
 * james_w hugs dholbach 
<persia> tacone: The Original Maintainer issue is because you haven't coordinated with Pete.
 * dholbach hugs james_w back :)
<persia> The out-of-date-standards-version is because the package hasn't been updated to 3.8.0.  Since you're already packaging a new upstream, now is a good time for the update, but you probably want to revisit your blocking issues (upstream tarball, watch file, talking with non-MOTU maintainer) first.
<persia> (well, not that the maintainer is non-MOTU, but that the package is not MOTU-maintained)
<tacone> sure. I'll contact him in a short while
<tacone> thank you persia
<tacone> going afk
<tacone> have a good day
<siretart> james_w: please go ahead, I'm rather focused on other stuff atm, sorry :(
<james_w> siretart: no problem, just checking that you wouldn't mind less work :-)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: that's 4-a-day already then :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: please unsub u-u-s from https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sopwith/+bug/242229
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242229 in sopwith "Please sync sopwith 1.7.1-3.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<dholbach> Hobbsee: want me to make you member of the team?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: nope.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i quit the team :P
<Hobbsee> dholbach: besides, doing this is already making me cry
<Hobbsee> (@ lp)
<dholbach> done
<Hobbsee> thanks
<Hobbsee> so, that's 5, right?  :P
<dholbach> :)
 * Hobbsee looks at the rest of these sync requests
<Hobbsee> zul: shouldn't 241012 be marked fix released?
<Hobbsee> ah, yes
<DktrKranz> today is DIF, do we need motu-release exception to process merges from now on?
<dholbach> no
<persia> DktrKranz: No official response has been forthcoming.  One member of motu-release has expressed that there should be no requirement for freeze exception approvals of any sort.
<DktrKranz> that's good, I hope this will be clarified a bit, but I think motu-release ACK would be a bottleneck now
<Hobbsee> persia: i'll second that.
<persia> Yeah.  We've never had that level of review in the past, and imposing it now seems a little heavy.
<persia> I don't mind some process, but think it ought be light, and not bottleneck on only a few people (this does not represent an advocation of process, just a willingness to accept sanely proposed process)
<DktrKranz> probably we should stop to bring in  heavy transitions with merges
<DktrKranz> this would require ACKs, IMO
<Hobbsee> dholbach: were you wanting to deal with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/asterisk-prompt-es/+bug/241395 (looks like you've touched it once)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241395 in asterisk-prompt-es "Please sync asterisk-prompt-es 1.4-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)." [Undecided,Incomplete]
<persia> Maybe.  For Hardy, I proposed that we shouldn't do any transitions affecting more than 10 packages.  We did a couple, but they were painful (we had little choice, given that DIF left us halfway on a couple)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it's free for anybody to deal with it - if I come across it later and somebody else has done it, that'S fine :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: wrong answer :P
<dholbach> ... that depends :)
<dholbach> soren: do you have an opinion about bug 241395?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241395 in asterisk-prompt-es "Please sync asterisk-prompt-es 1.4-1 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241395
 * Hobbsee wonders where sebner is
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee: at school (exams)
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: ahh
<DktrKranz> He's busy with real life right now (even if it doesn't seem so)
 * Hobbsee hits the bug with the wontfix stick.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: 241395?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: nope
<dholbach> ah ok
<Hobbsee> dholbach: soundkonverter
<dholbach> nm then
<Gralco> i dont understand how to fix bugs
 * Hobbsee scratches head.
<Hobbsee> sebner does the weirdest fakesync bugs.
<Hobbsee> well, patches.
<Hobbsee> oh, hm.
<Hobbsee> this...doesn't make sense.
<Hobbsee> and there's no rainct.
<Gralco> ahhhhh its 5 am
<Hobbsee> dholbach: now, if we've taken a package from debian, and made changes to it...why do we have a differing tarball to debian now?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Which package?
<Hobbsee> shouldn't the changes be made in the .diff.gz, and not modifying the original tarball?
<wgrant> That shouldn't possible unless we've got a new upstream
<Hobbsee> wgrant: boson
<dholbach> Hobbsee: sometimes it's a new upstream version we shipped before (repacked tarball, etc)
<Hobbsee> wgrant: we don't.  that's why i'm wondering.
<persia> Hobbsee: Happens sometimes if we grab upstream first.
<Hobbsee> persia: it doesn't look like we have, though.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<wgrant> Ehem.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: \sh made a versioning mistake.
<Hobbsee> at least, not this time.
<wgrant> boson (0.13-1ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<wgrant> * new upstream release
<persia> wgrant: That wasn't based on the experimental version?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: look one down.
<wgrant> persia: The changelog doesn't say it was.
 * wgrant checks.
<wgrant> persia: Ah, it was.
<persia> Hmm.  What does "nativied" mean?
<Hobbsee> persia: i presume it's denglish for "made native"
<persia> Hobbsee: In which case, it would explain differing tarballs, if we're native, and debian isn't.
<wgrant> Ahaha.
<wgrant> I see.
<wgrant> Debian 0.13-1 was native.
<wgrant> So our 0.13-1ubuntu1 has an Ubuntu-created upstream tarball.
<wgrant> So he made it non-native.
<wgrant> Nice of Debian to not note that change in the 0.13-2 changelog...
<\sh> hmm?
<\sh> wgrant: what?
<persia> Aha!  That would do it.
<persia> \sh: boson
<persia> wgrant: Likely the result of svn-buildpackage confusion and brown paper bags.
<\sh> oh darn
<wgrant> persia: And ignoring dpkg-buildpackage warnings...
<persia> wgrant: Well, sure.
<txwikinger> Does anybody know whty the package freeguide is in multiverse instead of universe even it seems to be gplv2?
<slytherin> txwikinger: as far as I know it needs Sun java to build and run which is in multiverse
<slytherin> txwikinger: last time I checked it doen't build with any Free java compilers/sdk
<txwikinger> hmm.. I think the questioner stated that it works with openjdk
<txwikinger> ok.. I will give an answer.. thanks a lot
<slytherin> txwikinger: is there any bug for this?
<slytherin> txwikinger: or help ticket?
<txwikinger> No a question
<txwikinger> yes .. help ticket
<devfil> persia: ping
 * \sh wasn't wrong then? ;)
<Hobbsee> wgrant: deal with it, if you feel so inclined :)
<slytherin> txwikinger: Tell him if he is sure it works then file a bug, some one will look into it
<txwikinger> I will say  when the decision had to be made it was not running with any free java environment but this will be looked at again
<txwikinger> and I can create a bug fot looking at it again
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Deal with what?
<Hobbsee> wgrant: boson
<slytherin> txwikinger: Ask him to file a bug and also make sure that his 'java' binary does not point to sun java. He may have both installed and thught that it works with openjdk
<wgrant> Hobbsee: I'm unfortunately studying for my last exam tomorrow.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: oh darn.  i thought yours were over!
<txwikinger> slytherin: right
<wgrant> Hobbsee: One more tomorrow.
<Gralco> going to bed guys
<Gralco> night
<slytherin> persia: free for a quick review? geser has already advocated package
<persia> slytherin: Not now: I'm prepping for a class in a bit.  Maybe afterwards, but I've a frustrating backlog.
<slytherin> persia: what class? in #ubuntu-classroom?
<devfil> persia: if you want to take a look at crystalspace: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crystalspace/+bug/242961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242961 in crystalspace "Please merge crystalspace 1.2-20080206-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<persia> slytherin: reading and using apport retraces.
<james_w> Apport session starting now in #ubuntu-classroom if anyone is interested.
<Hobbsee> and another done
<Hobbsee> smarter: hey there
<soren> dholbach: Hmm... I'm not sure at all, but it /looks/ sane.
<dholbach> soren: Ok
<smarter> hey Hobbsee
<siretart> question from #ubuntu-classrom: what was the bug number of the nicotine bug again? (sorry, I arrived late)?
<dholbach> siretart: https://launchpad.net/bugs/180363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 180363 in nicotine "nicotine crashed with IndexError in _parse()" [Undecided,New]
<siretart> thanks
<slytherin> Does anyone have any idea why do I always get - RPC failed on the node 'ejabberd@pspl1-desktop': nodedown - error on my ejabberd instalation?
<Laney> Are we in DIF yet or is there still time for a cheeky merge or two? ;)
<dholbach> there's definitely time for a merge or two :)
<Laney> \o/
<BugMaN> hi dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi BugMaN
<gnomefreak> good morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi gnomefreak
<directhex> still waiting for some packages i prepped to hit debian. i really don't want to go for a 0ubuntu1 package
<BugMaN> dholbach: i subscribe many bug to italian translator team :)
 * dholbach -> walking the dog + lunch (STARVING)
<dholbach> BugMaN: good luck with getting them all fixed! :)
<BugMaN> dholbach: yeah
<gnomefreak> dholbach: i sent someone here he has a bzr branch and has been building it. He wants it added to intrepid he filed a bug report and i told him to talk to someine in -motu to see what else he needs to do
<dholbach> gnomefreak: if he follows https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess all should be good
 * dholbach really gets lunch now :)
<gnomefreak> dholbach: thanks and have a good lunch
<sebner> persia: you may remember that today is DIF (uqm) ;)
<sebner> norsetto: huhu
<persia> sebner: Yep, and I'm prepared to break the rules to get it both correct and a sync, as I know I'm not going to be able to work on it until the weekend.
<sebner> persia: ^^ kk
<ScottK> directhex: Then you should wait.  There's no rule saying a sync can't be requested when it's appropriate.
<sebner> persia: and what happens if a package doesn't get merged until DIF? Then we need a Exception?
<persia> sebner: Anything that isn't merged by DIF is officially late.
<ScottK> sebner: To the extent an exception is needed it means some developer thinks it's worth uploading.
<sebner> ah kay
<Hobbsee> sebner: i dealt with one of your bugs today.  soundkonverter, iirc.
<sebner> Hobbsee: Ah true, I read
<sebner> ScottK: is that a sign if at least one sponsor refuses to upload my stuff to force me to apply? ^^
<persia> sebner: Bug number?
<sebner> persia: ah you want to upload the other stuff but not uqm xD
<persia> sebner: Right.  I won't upload uqm because it will be a sync as soon as I figure out enough about git.
<sebner> persia: ah true, to told me. ^^
<sebner> persia: bug #225626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225626 in libnxml "Merge libnxml 0.18.2-3 from Debian(Unstable)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225626
<sebner> tseliot: alberto! Intrepid is unstable. stopp testing new nvidia driver and upload it :P  (Please) :)
<tseliot> ï»¿sebner: there are still decisions which we have to make. I doesn't depend only on me
<sebner> tseliot: kay but you have packages ready you told me =) I just don't want to manual install it. so dirty ..
<tseliot> ï»¿sebner: don't worry, I can't distribute them yet
<sebner> persia: I also can offer you 3 merges and a fakesync =)
<sebner> tseliot: them. since my exams are over and I'm waiting since days/weeks to play games again :\
<sebner> *damn xD
<tseliot> sebner: sorry but we have to make sure that nothing breaks despite NVIDIA's behaviour
<sebner> tseliot: did I say that intrepid is unstable? ^^ ok ok np. I understand your concerns. any est plan?
<tseliot> ï»¿sebner: unstable, ok, but deliberately breaking it (with consequences on future updates) is not an option
<sebner> tseliot: okay. so you also can't tell an estimated release date?
<tseliot> ï»¿sebner: no, sorry
<sebner> ok np
<sebner> tseliot: thanks for the informations
<colinl> hello
<colinl> \sh: there's been no activity on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/claws-mail/+bug/241587 , is anything going wrong with it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241587 in claws-mail "bugfix batch for Hardy's Claws Mail" [Undecided,New]
<\sh> colinl: nope...I didn't had the time to deal with it...
<colinl> ok :)
<\sh> colinl: I'll try that tomorrow...promised
<colinl> thanks!
<sebner> \sh: I merged gnunet for you :) you may want to review it?
<\sh> sebner: assign the bug to me :)
<sebner> fine thx
<sebner> \sh: now you are subscribed and assigned xD
<norsetto> any motu-sru member wishing to check bug 242635?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242635 in trousers "The package cannot be removed if the daemon fails to start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242635
<DktrKranz> norsetto: in intrepid you uploaded only --oknodo, is the other point already fixed?
<norsetto> DktrKranz: it is
<norsetto> DktrKranz: sorry, I should have mentioned that
<Falken> Hi MOTU, my package is looking for reviewers ! see http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<Falken> thank you !
<DktrKranz> norsetto: done.
<norsetto> DktrKranz: danke
<DktrKranz> go and destroy 8.04.1! :)
<Ng> the import freeze is pretty soon, isn't it
<Ng> presumably it's still possible to have things synced across after that? Terminator isn't going to have a release today or tomorrow, but we should do in the next week or two and would very very much like to get that in intrepid (actually it's possible we might manage another release before october and that would be our 1.0)
<Hobbsee> yes, i'ts possible.
<persia> Ng: Anything not merged by DIF is officially late.  That said, feature Freeze isn't for a bit, so it's not too hard to get an update in, as long as it doesn't break too much, or someone really wants it.
<persia> Past FeatureFreeze, it gets hard.
<Ng> persia: we've got people testing packages of the new one from PPA so we should catch any regressions
<persia> Ng: Excellent :)  Note that in addition to regressions, there's possible impact on other things: in the case of terminator, I expect those to be mild.
<Ng> persia: yeah, nothing should be depending on us or anything like that
<Ng> thanks
<sebner> norsetto: Josh sent flightgear icons to me xD The bad news are that he doesn't run this site anymore. The good news are that he will (try) to include the png's into the cvs repo
<norsetto> sebner: ok, good news at last
<sebner> norsetto: to I can point to the cvs repo in the copyright file?
<norsetto> sebner: no, is he mentoning something in his email about copyright for the icons?
<sebner> norsetto: unfortunately not
<norsetto> sebner: well, then I think we have to forget about his icons for the time being, we need a clear statement that we can use his work
<sebner> norsetto: well, I'll ask him again and we just ignore/break DIF
<\sh> sebner: you are running intrepid?
<sebner> \sh: yes and I tested the gnunet la. thing ;)
<\sh> sebner: just asking
<sebner> \sh: pfff. I'm a u-u-c guy xD
<sebner> \sh: though I'm wondering why we don't want the dependency line in the .la files
<Laney> geser: Don't suppose you remember this change? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/vegastrike/0.4.3.debian-1ubuntu2 - would it have been to fix a FTBFS?
<mouz> What channel would be best to ask questions about ISO testing (intrepid)? I tried #ubuntu-testing but no answers there (not many people in it btw).
<rproenca> mouz: maybe -devel?
<mouz> rproenca: ok, i will try -devel
<rproenca> is there anyone here with a couple of minutes willing to sponsor an upload for me?
<ScottK> rproenca: Put it in a bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: 11 bugs done today.  do i get an award?  :P
<rproenca> ScottK: OK. It fixes what was mentioned in this bug comment here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/aptoncd/+bug/159721/comments/32
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159721 in aptoncd "failed to install packages from backup dvd" [Undecided,Fix committed]
 * ScottK looks
<persia> mouz: -testing is likely the right place, especially if you're using the tracker, but it's not a very active channel, and mostly in UTC+5-10 timezones.
<persia> Err.  UTC-5 to UTC-10 timezones
 * dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<ScottK> rproenca: Then attach the updated debdiff to that bug.
<dholbach> :)
<rproenca> ScottK: I will do that. Thank you.
<Laney> Don't suppose I could be cheeky and ask someone to last-minute-before-dif-sponsor bug #243241 for me please? I wouldn't usually but it's blocking the vegastrike merge. ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243241 in vegastrike-data "Please merge vegastrike-data 0.4.3-5 (Universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/243241
<sebner> norsetto: Yes, these are my work, but derivative of the banner at
<sebner> www.flightgear.org. The entire FlightGear project is GPL'd, so these
<sebner> would fall under that license as well.
<persia> Laney: Are you doing vegastrike and vegastrike-data as two different bugs?  Can they not be done together?
<norsetto> sebner: ok, just mention author, copyright and license in debian/copyright if you want to include them in this release. Once (and if) we get them in the tarball they should be covered by the tarball license
<norsetto> sebner: and of course keep all the emails archived for future reference ...
<sebner> norsetto: sure, if I include them I just copy them/it to debian/ ? But we are still using the .xpm icon?
<norsetto> sebner: you can't (yet) ship a binary in debian/
<sebner> norsetto: so I point to the cvs?
<persia> Rather, you can't (yet) ship a binary in diff.gz.  Shipping in debian works just fine.
<directhex> uuencode!
<persia> You can ship foo.png.uu, and build-depend on sharutils in order to uudecode it at build-time.
<norsetto> sebner: if you want to include the icon you have two choises: either convert it to a text readable format (xpm, svg, etc) or uuencode it and uudecode it at build time
<norsetto> sebner: which is a longer version of what persia said
<persia> .sng works for that as well.
<Laney> persia: Well, they're two packages so I'm doing them as two bugs
<persia> Although with .sng, you still have to construct .png at build time (this requires imagemagick)
<sebner> norsetto: we have already a xpm. so to save time I think we use it again for now and the next release hopefully includes the png files already
<norsetto> sebner: so, if the xpm we have already is derived from that png, we are ok
<Laney> If it doesn't have to be done like that then I guess I can request sponsorship as one
<persia> Laney: I'd do them as one bug, just because they really need to get uploaded together.
<Laney> (although I suspect vegastrike is going to turn out to be a sync)
<persia> I certainly hope vegastrike is a sync.  Are you sure that vegatrike-data still suffers from the python issues with 2.5?
<sebner> norsetto: as I said ^^but I still point to the cvs where the png is
<norsetto> sebner: what do you mean point? you mean add the link as a download location for the icon? Is the icon there already?
<sebner> norsetto: I don't think that this goes so fast
<norsetto> sebner: so, what do you want to point!?
<Laney> persia: Has the behaviour of 2.5 changed in this respect?
<sebner> norsetto: just to the cvs repo where the icon will be in a few days?
<rproenca> StevenK: and what if I wanted to release that package as a new upstream version (I am the application developer, btw) in Intrepid? The thing is that I have changed several things in the source code in the bzr tree and I think it is time to release those changes into Ubuntu's repository as well. Additionally I've updated the translations (synced from rosetta)
<persia> Laney: Unfortunately, I've run into sufficient airflow issues that I don't play anymore, so I can't say.  On the other hand, I thought I pushed all the changes to Debian SVN when last I merged (although I may be mistaken)
<norsetto> sebner: sure, write that in copyright: "the icon would have been downloaded from this cvs, its just that its not there yet, but I was promised it will be there ... eventually"
<rproenca> StevenK: let's say, 0.1.98-1, against the current 0.1.98-0 in intrepid
<sebner> norsetto: seems that copyright things are really really strict :\
<persia> sebner: In many parts of the world, violation is sufficient justification for restrictions of liberty.
<sebner> persia: I understand that copyright things are really important though most users don't even know that there is a copyright file or are interested in such things ..
<Laney> persia: The Debian package at least doesn't have this patch, that's all I can say. It's also the same upstream version, which means IMO that the merge and sync can go ahead separately.
<persia> sebner: Maybe, but it's still not nice to give somebody something for free, and have them become guilty of receiving stolen merchanidse.
<sebner> kk
<sebner> norsetto: so I'm fine if I just ship it in debian/. as persia said that's allowed. and take your .xpm again
<Laney> persia: Ah, it looks as though the bug (bug #95932) was against 2.5 anyway
<persia> sebner: It's permitted to ship binaries in debian, but you can only technically do it if you happen to be upstream, and include debian/ (which we don't like).  In nearly every case, debian/ is entirely within diff.gz, which cannot handle binaries.
<norsetto> sebner: make sure that the xpm we have already was derived from the same png, or do it again yourself, or ask for the png to huats if you want to be 100% sure
<sebner> norsetto: yes but I have to link to the png in copyright. That's my problem
<sebner> persia: ah kk
<huats> norsetto and sebner hello guys
<huats> hey persia
<sebner> hu huats
<persia> Laney: Right, I just thought upstream might have fixed it differently.
<persia> Good afternoon huats.
<sebner> huats: I suppose it was fg-128.png :P
<norsetto> sebner: why? Just say that "the icon blah blah is derived from the icon blah blah with permission from the original author blah blah"
<huats> persia: when was the apport session this morning ?
<huats> I went to the meeting room many times
<huats> and I never saw it :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 95932 in vegastrike-data "vegastrike-data python files are not pep0263 compliant and fail with python2.5" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95932
<sebner> norsetto: bah and why do you always told me that I have to show a link where the png can be downloaded?
<norsetto> huats: 10 UTC, and it was in #ubuntu-classroom ;-)
<huats> sebner: you suppose well (AFAIR)
<sebner> huats: I'll check, thx
<huats> norsetto: rrrrggggg I went to -meeting :(
<norsetto> sebner: do you have such a link? (no) do you want to ship that icon already? (yes) so, what else do you want?
<persia> huats: 10:00 UTC, but in -classroom.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/IntrepretingApportRetraces
<sebner> norsetto: I thought we have to show *always* a link and if we don't have one -> waiting
<norsetto> sebner: you can't have the butter and the money for the butter (ask huats what it means, but don't let him tell you the rest, you are too young for that ...)
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> norsetto: thx for all the help. I'll have a debdiff ready in time :)
<huats> ;)
<huats> thanks persia
<persia> huats: Feel free to ask if you have any questions after review.  I don't have nicotine in front of me anymore, but would be happy to answer.
<huats> :)
<huats> thanks persia
<huats> I'll have a look tonight I think
<huats> and I am sure it will be really interesting
 * norsetto thinks that, somehow, "I don't have nicotine in front of me anymore" sounds funny
<erUSUL> why on earth would a openssl security update require a reboot???
<geser> Laney: re vegastrike: I don't remember this change anymore. But from the changelog I'd say it was when I a FF exception for boost and needed to rebuild everything with it and needed to touch/update this patches.
<Laney> geser: Right, thanks. I guess we can go with Debian again now then
<geser> Laney: if it's the only change and the Debian package builds in intrepid then yes
<Laney> geser: Well, not the only change, but all of the others are OK to sync too.
<Laney> and yes, it b/i/r/ fine (with the vegastrike-data merge)
<persia> Well, and the boost changes that already happened :)
<DRebellion> Could someone spare a moment to review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio thanks ;)
<Laney> Merging is great for finding fun games
 * Laney gets addicted to xdigger
<norsetto> I guess this is a record, complaining that we don't have yet a fix committed upstream 22hrs ago
<persia> norsetto: Sometimes we get them at the same time :)
 * sistpoty|work heads home
<sistpoty|work> cya
<norsetto> persia: should I expect an answer to my last email?
<persia> norsetto: You should, and within the next couple hours.
<persia> (it's near the top of my list)
<norsetto> persia: ok, thx
<angelo> tacone????
<angelo> mi hanno mandato qui
<jpds> !it | angelo
<norsetto> there is actually an italian film whose title is "Mi ha mandato tacone"
<jpds> norsetto: Oh, I'll remember that for next time.
<ubottu> angelo: Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie!
<norsetto> or was that "Mi ha mandato Picone" ? Oh well
<norsetto> yeah, "mi manda Picone": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087716/
<Saj0577> Ubuland - Free hosting For ubuntu/open source users if your intrested please join #ubuland we need some input from potential users.
<rzr> Jazzva: around ?
<rzr> Jazzva: I managed to build jabbin
<Jazzva> rzr: I'm here... Go ahead and upload to REVU, and reassign the needs packaging bug :)
<rzr> I am about to see if the debian voip team is interessed into comaintaining it
<Jazzva> ok
<rzr> would you like to help on this too ?
<Jazzva> rzr: sure, but I can't before Saturday...
<rzr> take your time
<rzr> i am about to prepare my holidays too
<Jazzva> Ok, I'll ping you on Saturday to see how can I help you.
<tillux> I'm still trying to build a .deb package from source.tar.gz or svn-sources... the package I want to build is a library (cegui); If I do not edit anything in the debian/ folder except the control file, I'll get .debs just containing the docs... if I edit the debian/rules file (uncomment #dh_install) dpkg-buildpackage will exit with an error: "ï»¿dh_install: cegui-dev missing files (usr/include/*), aborting"
<tillux> what's the mistake I made?
<rzr> cegui ? is it the one Orgre3d uses ?
<tillux> rzr: yes
<rzr> ogre is packaged for while no ?
<tillux> "for while"?
<tillux> anyone?
<sebner> norsetto: you don't want it?  ^^
<norsetto> sebner: everybody goes through the u-u-s queue, you are not special
<sebner> norsetto: not true. I'm not special for *you* ;)
<sebner> +just
<norsetto> sebner: btw, when you changed the clean rule, you have forgotten to call make clean, or is it not needed anymore?
<johanbr> Lutin: I saw you uploaded the 0.23.3 version of Empathy, but it failed to build. Any chance of a new one? I saw the package is in debian unstable.
<norsetto> sebner: I also asked you to change the license pointer from GPL to GPL-2
<sebner> norsetto: for both? the icon and programm?
<tillux> ï»¿I'm still trying to build a .deb package from source.tar.gz or svn-sources... the package I want to build is a library (cegui); If I do not edit anything in the debian/ folder except the control file, I'll get .debs just containing the docs... if I edit the debian/rules file (uncomment #dh_install) dpkg-buildpackage will exit with an error: "ï»¿dh_install: cegui-dev missing files (usr/include/*), aborting"
<norsetto> sebner: the pointer to /usr/share/common-licenses
<sebner> norsetto: I see. I really forgot it
<norsetto> sebner: remember that in the future, GPL now points to GPL-3 by default
<Gralco> was there an #ubuntu-classroom session today?
<sebner> norsetto: yes, thanks. sry what do you mean with clean?
<sebner> huhu ember
<sebner> huhu emgent
<sebner> ^^
<emgent> Hi ember
<sebner> norsetto: ah I noticed
<norsetto> sebner: see the comment, its also possible that that is not needed anymore, you should check
<sebner> norsetto: /me is asking himself how
<emgent> hi Cesare, morituri te salutan :)
<norsetto> sebner: you can check what both targets are doing, either testing or by checking the code
<norsetto> sebner: you can also build twice and check if all files are cleaned by the clean rules
<sebner> norsetto: thanks for the hints =)
<norsetto> emgent: suicide or a pious soul finally is freeing us from you ;-)
<norsetto> sebner: mind you that to do the double build with pbuilder needs you to add an appropriate hook
<sebner> norsetto: --save after login?
<sebner> *logout
<sebner> or something like that xD
<norsetto> sebner: nope, a real hook
<sebner> norsetto: well I'll check what both targets are doing
<emgent> norsetto: lol :)
<tillux> humm. why doesn't dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot work correctly, when enablin dh_install in debian/rules ?
<norsetto> sebner: raphink did a script for revu some time ago that did that
<geser> tillux: in which target is this? not all targets are run as root so fakeroot should fake it
<sebner> raphink: around? =)
<norsetto> sebner: you can also do it manually, just add a B01 hook which just opens a shell (/bin/bash < /dev/tty > /dev/tty 2> /dev/tty). I've never done it this way, just experiment
<tillux> geser: as it's a lib, it ought to be /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib or whatsoever
<tacone> norsetto: ?
<norsetto> tacone: ?
<tacone> I was pinged some year ago by you and angelo
<tacone> some hour (but seemed like years :-))
<sebner> norsetto: did you see that somebody prepared a (not wanted) debdiff for eggdrop?
<norsetto> sebner: yes, he coordinated it with emgent
<emgent> true
<norsetto> tacone: yeah, I don't know who he is, he just jumped in and looked for you
<sebner> norsetto: ah but we didn't want it that way IIRC
<norsetto> sebner: its ok, I discussed some more with kees and we agreed that is better to keep it this way
<sebner> norsetto: bah
<norsetto> sebner: its just a license issue, there is no technical problem behind it, it doesn't require to split the package in two
<sebner> norsetto: before taking flightgear I wanted to do that and then I'd have been for nothing :P
<norsetto> sebner: I asked you to talk with him about this btw, long long ago ...
<sebner> norsetto: to kees? O_o *never noticed that*
<kees> er hm?
<kees> oh, eggdrop.  what's been decided?
<norsetto> sebner: ^^
<sebner> xD
<sebner> norsetto: besides that 2 issues is the debdiff ok or didn't you take a close look?
<norsetto> sebner: go on, discuss the issue with him, he won't bite you (well, not too badly anyway)
<emgent> kees: about eggdrop now ssl patch included in the same package
<emgent> but i think that is good use "eggdrop-ssl" in the future
<kees> it's a violation of the GPL to ship eggdrop as a binary linked to openssl
<kees> the only way to avoid this is to either  a) get the eggdrop author to make an exception to his license for the non-GPL clauses of openssl, or  b) port the SSL patches for eggdrop into gnutls.
<emgent> uhm
<norsetto> nixternal: is it possible to add multiple email addresses to the -motu list? I need to send (I hope temporarely) my emails through a different provider, and they are stopped for moderation
<emgent> kees: when you have time can you add Bug #172283 in your todolist ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 172283 in wireshark "[wireshark] multiple vulnerabilities" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172283
<kees> emgent: sure
<emgent> thanks
<sebner> norsetto: I think they do the same but make clean throws an error
<norsetto> sebner: what error? You know why?
<sebner> norsetto: /usr/bin/make -i clean
<sebner> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/sebner/merges/flightgear/flightgear-1.0.0'
<sebner> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.
<sebner> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/sebner/merges/flightgear/flightgear-1.0.0'
<sebner> make: [clean] Error 2 (ignored)
<sebner> buh 4 lines
<sebner> no pastebin
<norsetto> sebner: ah, that means very simply that there is no clean rule, so forget about adding one
<sebner> norsetto: ha!
<sebner> norsetto: but distclean?
<norsetto> sebner: I hope there is a distclean target ...
<sebner> norsetto: yes, ^^
<sebner> norsetto: so only the license pointer, any other issue?
<norsetto> sebner: I just skimmed it, I don't remember anything else jumping to my eyes
<sebner> norsetto: kay, then I upload a new debdiff
<sebner> norsetto: again thanks. Working with you is always great because I learn many things from you =)
<norsetto> sebner: wait until I present you the bill
<sebner> norsetto: hrhr, you can when I write my motu application next month. (hmm or better later since I'm missed a lot of knowledge)
<huats> norsetto: hey
<huats> norsetto: just a quick and fast question
<norsetto> huats: yes
<norsetto> huats: that was the quick and fast answer :-)
<huats> is it needed to be a MOTU to help you on the reception ?
<huats> ;)
<norsetto> huats: no, but you need at least to be a President
<huats> if not, I'll be happy to help you
<huats> ;)
<norsetto> huats: ok, I'll add you to the team :-)
<sebner> norsetto: ha! got that mail. come on be my valentine (or mentor) Xd
<norsetto> huats: I will send you an email about a couple of things we need to do
<huats> I am sure you'll find lots of people way more interesting than myself to help you... but if there is a place left here I am
<huats> :)
<huats> norsetto: sure
<huats> go ahead
<huats> I might just answer this WE
<huats> but I will
<huats> ;)
<norsetto> huats: what is your launchpad id?
<huats> christophe.sauthier
<norsetto> huats: welcome to the team :-)
<huats> norsetto: thanks !
<Falken> hey norsetto, what is that reception you're talking about ?
<norsetto> Falken: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<Falken> thanks :D
<sebner> gn8 folks =)
<RainCT> good night
<wgrant> siretart: I wonder what my chances of getting  most of the vlc binaries moved to universe are, if I put the x264 plugin in its own package.
<wgrant> (the vlc source would have to remain in multiverse so it could build the x264 binary, of course)
 * norsetto really wishes we could do that for mplayer too
<wgrant> norsetto: As do I, but it's not modular.
<norsetto> wgrant: well, a man can always dream
<wgrant> Although, hmmm.
<wgrant> Maybe we could do the same, and keep the mencoder binary in multiverse.
<wgrant> I'll have to check out what exactly Debian leaves out other than the encoding bits.
<norsetto> wgrant: I thought we discussed that and concuded we couldn't
<blairzajac> hello, i uploaded a package to revu libfile-fnmatch-perl a while back, how do i ask or talk to about getting this reviewed?
<norsetto> blairzajac: offer bribes of an appropriate amount (us$ not accepted obviously)
<blairzajac> norsetto: lol
<norsetto> blairzajac: ops, freudian slip, I wrote us$ instead of US$ :-)
<wgrant> norsetto: I wasn't privy to those discussions, apparently.
<blairzajac> hmm, i'm on the subversion dev team, maybe i should ask our debian maintainer, who we just granted commit rights to
<norsetto> wgrant: in the motu m.l., you are subscribed, aren't you?
<wgrant> But I can't see that there'd be anything wrong in the vlc case - it's only in multiverse due to dynamically linked build-depends, and it is clear that nothing but the x264 plugin is linked against the lib in question.
<wgrant> norsetto: Of course. I don't recall the dicussion, though. I'll search it up.
<norsetto> blairzajac: if he has upload rights for ubuntu that would be a good solution for you
<blairzajac> norsetto: it would be a favor to ask of him, since it's a totally unrelated package
<wgrant> Ah, right, found it.
<norsetto> blairzajac: who is he, if I may ask?
<wgrant> norsetto: I can't see any replies.
<blairzajac> norsetto: Peter Samuelson
<norsetto> blairzajac: no, never heard of him (but I'm pretty new here anyway)
<norsetto> wgrant: this was the first email: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-May/003966.html
<ajmitch> norsetto: a DD
<norsetto> ajmitch: a destroyer!
<wgrant> norsetto: Ah, not the thread that I found.
<norsetto> wgrant: and a followup in June: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-June/003969.html
<blairzajac> norsetto: but in general. how does one get packages reviewed?  is there a place to ping?  just make noise?
<norsetto> blairzajac: if you can get your package into Debian that would really be the best, we would get it from them anyway
<norsetto> blairzajac: otherwise this is the right place for asking
<blairzajac> norsetto: in my reading around, my sense was that it's easier to get into Ubuntu, but I guess that's not the case?
<wgrant> siretart has some unfortunately good points :(
<norsetto> blairzajac: it is actually true
<norsetto> blairzajac: next time also hand out a link, it helps, I'm on my way to bed otherwise I would have looked at it myself
<blairzajac> norsetto: ok, thanks for your help, appreciate it, here's the link for anybody else reading http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libfile-fnmatch-perl
<nxvl> jcastro: around?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-27
<norsetto> blairzajac: I'll give it a better look tomorrow but looks pretty good, just two things:
<norsetto> blairzajac: the standards version is now 3.8.0 (not your fault, time passed away unfortunately)
<norsetto> blairzajac: since your icense is the same as perl, you need to have pointers in copyright to /usr/share/common-licenses/Artistic and /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<norsetto> blairzajac: not sure if Perl-5 is GPL-2 or GPL-3, just use the right one
<norsetto> blairzajac: also, your watch file doesn't seem to work
<norsetto> blairzajac: also, please file a needs-packaging bug in LP and close it in your changelog with (LP: #xxxxx). You don't need all that stuff in changelog, just initial release will do
<mitsarionas> hi all...could someone help me with automake/autoconf?
<blairzajac> norsetto: thanks!
<zachtib> hey, i have a packaging problem... i'm making a package that is split into multiple binary packages, all of which have some python in them.  the files are getting moved to /usr/share/python-support, but then each binary package's files go into a separate subdir after that... how can i get them all in the same directory the way it was before I spilt the package?
<zachtib> i've been googling for a couple hours now :-/
<persia> zachtib: The presumption is that you are splitting the package in a way that makes the separate pieces logically distinct.  While there are ways to force things to again be in the same directory, why would you want to split the package if the contents are collocated?
<zachtib> well, there's a daemon and multiple UI's, i want the daemon in one package, then each UI in another, but then there's also some shared module that I have in a common package
<persia> That makes sense.  Now, why ought they share the same directory?
<zachtib> well, i know when they are in different directories, it crashes, which i'm assuming is because they can't find some of the common modules
<persia> That sounds like insufficient namespace separation to me, which would be a bug.  Is the code perhaps not written to be sufficiently modular to do what you expect?
<zachtib> that might be the case, and if so i'll work with the devs to fix the issue
<persia> zachtib: Good luck.  Note that without seeing the error, I'm just guessing: it could be that there's some file that needs to be in a different place, and it's just an artifact of the way the package was split.
<zachtib> one sec, lemme reproduce and pastebin
<zachtib> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23223/
<zachtib> that may or may not be the error that's causing trouble, i'm rebuilding now
<zachtib> yeah, it's pretty much the same error
<persia> That fragment clearly indicates that the code sought is not stored in the expected place.  That said, it's not likely you can differentiate between the code to be loaded being stored in an unexpected or misnamed directory from loading code that makes incorrect assumptions about the relative relationship to code to be loaded without investigation of the code concerned.
<zachtib> ok, i think i may have left something out when i split the package, i'm gonna go check over my scripts again
<persia> It's worth checking documentation on the modularity of the affected package, and ensuring that your package split and the expected modular breakdown match: this may require patching some module names.
<persia> On the other hand, this approach may not be successful, as it may be that the code is constructed in such a way that you cannot split the package in the way you desire. (it's neither simple or desireable to have two binary packages provide separate components of a single module)
<emgent> ls
<emgent> ups, wrong terminale session
<zachtib> oh wow, yeah, i missed a lot of .py files >.<
<persia> zachtib: Excellent news: you're now no longer communication blocked, and can proceed with your plan :)
<zachtib> yep, till my next error at least
<zachtib> the project was meant to be modular from the ground up, but i think i'm the first one to actually try and build multiple binaries out of it
<emgent> night
<zachtib> persia, got my package working, thanks for the help :)
<persia> zachtib: Great news!
<persia> There's a completely unadvertised MOTU Meeting on in #ubuntu-meeting, if anyone is available to attend.
 * ScottK jumps in.
<foxbuntu> Hi all, I was wondering if someone would mind a quick review of my package to provide a +2 for it
<foxbuntu> mythbuntu-apple-trailers
<StevenK> foxbuntu: Can you post a URL to it?
<foxbuntu> StevenK, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythbuntu-apple-trailers
<swegner> Is there a standard way to package icons to be installed using cdbs?
<StevenK> foxbuntu: Personally, I'm not so sure about having the source in <unpacked dir>/usr/share/mythtv. It should be installed there by debian/rules, but probably not in the upstream tarball, surely?
<foxbuntu> StevenK, I am the upstream now, but i am not really sure what you are asking?
<StevenK> foxbuntu: When you unpack the .orig tarball, the source isn't in ., it's in ./usr/share/mythtv
<superm1> a variety of the mythbuntu-* packages store it that way already
<StevenK> In the source? Why?
<superm1> no need to complicate things and make a rule for moving it around
<superm1> you know exactly where it will end up
<StevenK> It's three files, you add a debian/install file, and stop caring. :-)
<superm1> well when the packages start to grow at least
<superm1> some of them are shipping a ton of settings files say for example
<superm1> but either way its a matter of opinion
<StevenK> I've just never seen it done that way before
<StevenK> Does mythtv-frontend being installed ensure the mythtv user and group exist?
<superm1> mythtv-common does
<superm1> which is a dependency for mythtv-frontend
<StevenK> Right. In any case, the packaging for mythbuntu-apple-trailers looks good.
<StevenK> foxbuntu: ^
<foxbuntu> StevenK, thanks
<foxbuntu> StevenK, did you add a comment +1?
<StevenK> Just fighting with REVU to do so now
<foxbuntu> thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> hi!
<geser> Guten Morgen dholbach
<dholbach> hi geser, hi nxvl
<nxvl> i have been thinking today about we talk last night
<nxvl> and i think that maybe a process like debian's NM would be good
<nxvl> (not so bottle necked as debian, but that's the idea)
<dholbach> nxvl: what would you like to change?
<siretart> Guten Morgen, MOTU!
<nxvl> dholbach: the mentors program
<nxvl> in my experience with it, is too short
<dholbach> nxvl: and what in particular would you like to change?
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> first to have some standars for mentors
<nxvl> so the people mentoring a new contributor to have some "steps" to follow
<nxvl> and make it more extensive
<nxvl> i was drop by my own really early as i feel it
<dholbach> we never announced the mentors programme really publically and even then we did not have enough mentors
<geser> Guten Morgen siretart
<dholbach> I'm not sure that introducing standards for mentors is going to help with that particular problem
<nxvl> well i was more thinking in having steps for new contributor
<siretart> 'steps'?
<nxvl> and not to hardly say mentors: this are the standars
<dholbach> like?
<nxvl> just: here you have some suggestions that you can follow
<jscinoz> Hey guys, im working on a number of packages, and i've run into a problem with cowbuilder, basically i cannot run multiple instances of it simultaneously as it gets dpkg admin directory locked errors, any ideas what i'm doing wrong?
<nxvl> jscinoz: have you tried pbuilder?
<jscinoz> nxvl, yes but its far slower than cowbuilder due to the extracting of the base tarball each build
 * nxvl loves pbuilder
<RAOF> sbuild-on-lvm FTW!
<jscinoz> cowbuilder is still prettymuch pbuilder just cow directory rather than tarball
<jscinoz> but any ideas why they seem to ebe sharing a common /var/lock?
<nxvl> dholbach: actually i don't think the process isn't good, just that can be better, and i'm thinking on ways to improve it
<jscinoz> hmm
<jscinoz> anyone else notice that /var/lock is mounted on tmpfs while in a chroot (cowbuilder), causing breakage when using multiple cowbuilders at once?
<StevenK> /var/lock and /var/run have been tmpfses since Feisty.
<jscinoz> does that behaviour break pbuilder/cowbuilder for anyone other than me then?
<StevenK> I don't recall it breaking pbuilder.
<jscinoz> basically because it seems /var/lock is common amoungst all chroots, multiple simultaneous builds fail with DPKG administrator directory locked
<jscinoz> when trying to satsify build depends
<TheMuso> ?c
<huats> morning everyone
<gnomefreak> doko: did you merge fontconfig?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Iulian> Heya sistpoty
<sistpoty|work> hi Iulian
<norsetto> cheerio
<geser> Hi norsetto
<norsetto> hi geser
<huats> hey norsetto and geser
<huats> norsetto: dont you should have sent me an email about the mentoring :) ?
<norsetto> huats \!*
<huats> norsetto: !!
<norsetto> huats: its ready to go, will send it around 1700
<huats> norsetto: take your time for the mail, but don't forget it !
<huats> ;)
<huats> no pb
<geser> Hi huats
<norsetto> huats: would you be available to have a chat tonight? Anytime between 2200 and 0100 ?
<huats> norsetto: not realy sure
<huats> norsetto: can I confirm that later ?
<norsetto> huats: ok, let me know when you see my email
<huats> sure
<PMantis> ï»¿Does anyone have a URL they can give me stating that deb packages are typically built to install to (for example) /usr/sbin instead of /usr/local/sbin ?
<directhex> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html#s9.1
<superm1> could someone take a look at this debian/control and tell me why it's even getting attempted to be built on anything that is not i386,lpia,or amd64? http://paste.ubuntu.com/23307/
<superm1> i get mail about it FTBFS on these other platforms, but both binary packages shouldn't be touched on them
<directhex> superm1, can i see a failed build log?
<superm1> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15644065/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-sparc.coreavc_0.1~svn65-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sistpoty|work> superm1: afaict that's normal... architecture in debian/control will just cause a FTBFS on architectures not in there
<superm1> sistpoty|work, well how can i keep it from building on those other arch's then?
<sistpoty|work> superm1: iirc the only way that the package won't get attempted to build is via p-a-s
<superm1> what's p-a-s?
<superm1> soyuz thing?
<superm1> like a soyuz override
<sistpoty|work> superm1: not really, it's package-arch-specific shared by debian and ubuntu, ask lamont or elmo for details ;)
<sistpoty|work> (and yes, it's a override database)
<sebner> hiuhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<directhex> superm1, your standards-version needs updating while you're at it
<superm1> directhex, not if its based on an old standards and will be backported
<superm1> :)
<directhex> yay, backports are a world of fun
<superm1> sistpoty|work, well i'll ask elmo about details when he's around.  for getting this solved though, should i just file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive then?
<superm1> to tell them to override it
<sistpoty|work> superm1: iirc the right thing is to mail elmo and lamont (and there's a third person in p-a-s, I just forgot who)
<sistpoty|work> \sh: didn't you recently ask for an updated entry in p-a-s and hence know the procedure?
<directhex> i see nothing wrong with the control file, so it must be something silly, such as sistpoty|work's suggestion
<\sh> sistpoty|work: yes..ask lamont,elmo or infinity
<sistpoty|work> \sh: a, thx... superm1 ^^
<directhex> so why does LP ignore the Architecture line?
<directhex> i mean, isn't the entire effing point of it so you don't need some kind of magic override database with the same goddamn info in it?
<superm1> thanks \sh
<sistpoty|work> directhex: it doesn't ignore it, it does the right thing, which is to fail the build
<directhex> sistpoty|work, it's intentional! if it was meant to attempt to build on that arch, then it'd be listed in Architecture!
<sistpoty|work> directhex: the p-a-s layer exists mainly to ease porting, and because maintainers are often wrong in regards to architecture
<Hobbsee> superm1: u-a can't do anything about overrides, last i knew.
<Hobbsee> it's only lamont / infinity / elmo iirc.
<superm1> okay :)
<directhex> sistpoty|work, if it's to ease porting, then it's implemented wrong - it should either assume the packager isn't thick (and allow the porters to override on a per-package basis) or assume the packager isn't thick, and only bother the porters with FTBFS issues (because nobody wants to see mess caused by trying to build obviously i386-only junk on hppa)
<geser> superm1: http://cvs.debian.org/srcdep/Packages-arch-specific?root=dak&view=markup is the current P-a-s list used both by Debian and Ubuntu
 * directhex grumbles
<superm1> surely its not identical in both.  we have packages not present in debian
<sistpoty|work> directhex: well, p-a-s is just an override on a per-package basis (everything that's not in there imo takes the values from the architecture field)... that the uploader gets the ftbfs mails is a different question though, and nothing debian specific ;)
<geser> sistpoty|work: isn't the default that it's given to every buildd and will fail later because of the Architecture line?
<sistpoty|work> geser: not too sure actually, that at least happens *if* there's s.th. in p-a-s
<sistpoty|work> geser: however that may be true as well
<sistpoty|work> geser: oh, indeed, since coreavc is not in p-a-s
<persia> superm1: It is identical for both distributions.  Perhaps eventually Soyuz will move away from P-a-s, and use the extracted information from the architecture field, but it isn't so implemented yet.
<superm1> persia, so that means if elmo/infinity/lamont fix it, they will be adding this override in debian for a package that (currently and possibly never) isn't present there?
<persia> superm1: Precisely.  The reason it is those three people is because of the role they have in Debian.  The fact that it matters for Ubuntu is only accidental.
<superm1> geez.  that makes more sense why ~ubuntu-archive cant touch it then
<persia> Yep.  I heard once that the long-term goal was not to use P-a-s, but that it was leftovers from dak, which is why it is that way.  If such a plan isn't in place, it likely makes more sense to branch P-a-s for administration by buildd-admins.
<vhaarr> Hey, the latest audacious (1.5.1-1ubuntu1) segfaults on launch -- should I file a bug or is it enough to mention it here?
<vhaarr> if I start it from a terminal I just get a message saying "Segmentation fault" and no stacktrace or anything.
<james_w> vhaarr: please file a bug
<vhaarr> james_w: any other details I can provoke somehow, or logs that I should include?
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<vhaarr> right
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace
<james_w> those pages should help you provide information about the segfault.
<james_w> also, you should look in /var/crash to see if you have any audacious crash files
<james_w> if you do then running "apport-cli -c <file>" on one will file a bug using apport which may be easier than getting the backtrace yourself.
<vhaarr> james_w: actually I dont have apport installed, would that make it easier to generate a backtrace in the first place? If I install apport and try to run audacious again, I mean.
<vhaarr> there are no logs in /var/crash
<james_w> there won't be if apport isn't installed
<james_w> it may be easier to install it and use that, I don't know.
<vhaarr> I am not sure how apport works, does it use some sort of kernel hooks? Perhaps I would have to restart for it to work after installing.
<vhaarr> I'll try
<vhaarr> ah, heh, someone reported the same bug 3 minutes ago :p
<vhaarr> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/243539
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3 in rosetta "Custom information for each translation team" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243539 in audacious "audacious 1.5.1ubuntu1 segfaults at starting" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<vhaarr> I was just about to file it
<persia> I'd really like to see a full apport trace for that: the supplied trace has missing symbols.
<vhaarr> the trace I generated with gdb is exactly the same as in the report already
<vhaarr> I installed apport, but it does not provide any dialog when I reproduce the segfault
<vhaarr> (or any log in /var/crash)
<persia> Frame #2 in threads 1 & 3 has no symbol?
<persia> (and we should probably take this to #ubuntu-bugs)
<k0p> !help
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-motu's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://tinyurl.com/5zfb6t - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<k0p> someone can help me to re-sync my key to upload on revu?
<sistpoty|work> k0p: sure, give me a minute
<k0p> ok. :) thanks
<sistpoty|work> k0p: hm... are you a member of the group revu-uploaders on launchpad?
<sistpoty|work> k0p: nevermind, found you already
<k0p> sistpoty|work, yeap. I make a upload to revu. But I don't have sucessful. I forget ask to re-sync.
<sistpoty|work> k0p: good. resync will be completed in a few minutes. I'll then put back your upload, so it should show up with in the next 10 minutes
<k0p> sistpoty|work, so.. I need re-upload files?
<sistpoty|work> k0p: no, you don't... the files are all still there, just in the rejected queue, but I'll free them ;)
<k0p> oh thanks for spot files. sorry mistakes :)
<sistpoty|work> k0p: no problem
<Laibsch> Hi
<Laibsch> I am trying to build a package from bzr. I have put debian/ into a separate bazaar branch, too.  debuild now complains about the debian/.bzr/ directory and binary, unrepresentable changes in there.  How can I get debuild to ignore that directory?
<ember> Laibsch try debuild -i.bzr
<Laibsch> looking good
<Laibsch> Thanks, just what I needed.  I wonder why that is not mentioned in the man-page
<sistpoty|work> Laibsch: debuild passes the parameters to dpkg-buildpackage, which in turn passes them to dpkg-source (when a source package should get built)
<sistpoty|work> Laibsch: hence you can find it in the one of those man pages
<Laibsch> Ah, yes right
<Laibsch> I got bitten by that before (looking for stuff in the debuild man-page when it was an option for one of the scripts it called)
<norsetto> hmmmm, how de we reserve channels for meetings? The fridge!?
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: ubuntu-news-team list (cf. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-June/000428.html)
<norsetto> thanks super-master sistpoty|work (even though I still have to find how to actually do the bloody thing)
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: you mean how to register a meeting?
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: yes, how to check if the room is available and book it
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: that's a good question... it used to be on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event (but that doesn't display anything for me atm.)
<norsetto> sistpoty|work: neither for me, so, at least I'm not blinder than usual
<sistpoty|work> heh
<persia> norsetto: If your meeting is soon, the #ubuntu-meeting topic can be a good guide for room availability.  If you want #ubuntu-classroom, talk to james_w or pleia
<norsetto> persia: OK, I set it through the topic, thx
<persia> norsetto: You really want to set it by sending a note to the ubuntu-news-team, as the bot will overwrite your /topic update at the time of the next meeting.
<persia> I only meant to suggest that reading the /topic was an alternate mechanism to get the list of events whilst that fridge page was blank.
<norsetto> persia: well, never mind, as long as the room is free I'm happy
<persia> norsetto: It's usually free around that time, but I still encourage you to send a quick email, just in case :)
<porthose> norsetto: 20:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting for the mentoring reception meeting sounds good, will be there :)
<norsetto> porthose: cool
 * DktrKranz kicks at himself for bogus twisted-calendarserver upload :/
 * norsetto didn't know that totem could use mplayer as the backend
<porthose> norsetto:  I have emailed everyone on the "status" list, requesting an update. :)
<pochu> hi all!
<sistpoty|work> hi pochu
<pochu> hey sistpoty|work
 * sistpoty|work needs to head home, cya
<Technoviking> how do I create a .dsc file for a new pakage
<azeem> dpkg-source does tat
<azeem> that*
<directhex> debuild -S -sa?
<Technoviking> azeem: is there a guide to dpkg-source somewhere
<azeem> there's the manpage
<azeem> but probably using debuild or dpkg-buildpackage -S is better
<Technoviking> how do I get past gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available
<RainCT> Technoviking: what are you using, debuild?
<Technoviking> RainCT: yes
<RainCT> Technoviking: debuild -S -sa -k<your email address>
<RainCT> or use  dch  to sign the last changelog entry with your name and email
<RainCT> (supposing that you have a GPG address and the variables DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL are exported)
<norsetto> porthose: thanks
<porthose> norsetto: np
<Technoviking> doing  debuild -S -sa -kmike.basiner@ubuntu.com
<Technoviking> still get error, gpg is setup on this machine
<RainCT> Technoviking: and you have a GPG key for e-mail address mike.basiner@ubuntu.com?
<RainCT> (on your machine)
<Technoviking> RainCT: yup
<RainCT> Technoviking: isn't there a 'g' missing?
<Technoviking> needed key and not e-mail
<RainCT> Technoviking: ie, basinger and not basiner
<Technoviking> mistyped in irc, was ok in terminal
<RainCT> ah
<RainCT> it should work with the e-mail then... :S
<Technoviking> e-mail work not after using gpg key
<Technoviking> must have a gpg problem somewhere
<Technoviking> lets see if pbuilder will work now
* Laibsch changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Subtitles for your movies
<Laibsch> Oops, sorry
<Laibsch> Wrong window
<Laibsch> Can somebody please change that back?
* Laibsch changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: ï»¿The topic for #ubuntu-motu is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | 8.04 is released: Let's fix any SRU-worthy bugs before the users try the package. | Intrepid open, go wild! https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | TODAY - Another day!! Keep working.
<Laibsch> Done
<sistpoty> hi folks
<norsetto> sistpoty: who are you?
<norsetto> sistpoty: hmmm, I guess you are the poorer brother of sistpoty|work
<sistpoty> norsetto: yes... imagine sistpoty|work in the evening, with a beer at hand *g*
<norsetto> sistpoty: cheers :-)
<sistpoty> cheers :)
<grimko> hi all, I'm very new to this but I'd like to create a program that would warn the user if disk space runs low
<grimko> I've already made daemons in Perl or bash, and the idea would be to send a message to the notification area (that's just for a quick start)
<johanbr> grimko: That already exists, I think it's part of gnome-volume-manager.
<grimko> the problem is that I got no idea how to send a message to this notification area :)
<grimko> volume ?
<grimko> johanbr, not in hardy in my opinion
<johanbr> It's there. See /usr/share/doc/gnome-volume-manager/changelog.Debian.gz
<grimko> ok, I'll have a look thx
<ScottK> sistpoty: Did you have a chance to have a look at nxvl's packaging of augeaus yet?  It's got some library stuff in it, so I suggested to him it'd be good for you to have a look.
<ogra> grimko, beyond that the libnotify-bin package has a binary called notify-send that you can use from scripts
<grimko> thx ogra, I'll take a look there too :) do you know if the low space running notification exists somewhere ?
<ogra> i did, i didnt run out of space in hardy yet :)
<ogra> *it did
<sistpoty> ScottK: no, not yet... is it on revu?
<ogra> i'm not sure about the current satatus though
<ScottK> Yes.  I think I may have spelled it wrong though.
<ScottK> Just a moment.
<ScottK> sistpoty: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=augeas
<sistpoty> thanks ScottK, will take a look
<ScottK> Great.
<pgib> hello ubuntu-motu fellows.  I am not an Ubuntu user myself, but I am a developer of the application LMMS.  lmms.sf.net.  The package is already in universe.  We are about to release an alpha of the next major version.
<pgib> How do I get in touch with the correct maintainer so we can make sure the next version will be properly supported by Ubuntu?  Thanks!
<pgib> I looked around on the motu pages, but.. it doesn't seem to be helpful for me
<norsetto> pgib: we merge lmms from Debian, therefore if you get it there we will eventually get it too
<pgib> norsetto: OK. that makes sense.  I guess there is a schedule saying when the last merge will be before intrepid?
<porthose> pgib: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<pgib> OK. thanks for all your help
<norsetto> pgib: we are free to merge before freeze, after that you need an exception
<pgib> Ah yesturday... we missed it
<tacone> not that freeze I guess
<norsetto> pgib: no, feature freeze on August 18th
<pgib> June 26th: Debian import freeze
<tacone> pgib: follow the link to know what it means :)
<pgib> yeah I'm waiting.. the page is slow
<pgib> OK makes sense.
<sistpoty> oh, that reminds me that I wanted to write a mail due to DIF
<pgib> So do I just need to bother you guys again once we have the new version in Debian?
<norsetto> sistpoty: you can't write mail after DIF
<norsetto> pgib: please do, we accept all currencies
<sistpoty> norsetto: hm... I guess I didn't dist-upgrade to a post DIF state :P
<norsetto> pgib: and major credit cards
<pgib> lol. ok :)
<pgib> thanks for clarifying everything for me.  You should see me around in a few weeks once the package has sat in Debian for a little while
<getaceres> hello
<pgib> greetings
<norsetto> pgib: see you
<getaceres> I'm trying to make a package but I have a problem trying to set the version
<getaceres> I need it to be 1:3.1-1 but dh_make fails if I try to use that directory name (package_name-1:3.1)
<getaceres> how can I force the version number (if possible using dh_make)
<azeem> why the 1:?
<getaceres> I want to update an Ubuntu package that has this number in the version
<getaceres> it's at the version 1:3.0.2
<azeem> ok, so why do you use dh_make?
<azeem> dh_make isn't for updating, AFAIK
<azeem> maybe look into uupdate
<getaceres> because the sources are not debianized and Ubuntu packagers haven't updated the source package to version 3.1 yet
<getaceres> so I cannot use the sources from the original
<azeem> that's what uupdate is for
<azeem> or just copy over the debian/ directory, run dch -i, and change the version number accordingly or something
<getaceres> ok, I'll try, thanks
<james_w> I have a package here that does "ln -s /usr/bin/foo debian/bar/usr/lib/bar/foo"
<james_w> does that shake out to do the right thing in the binary package?
<james_w> yes, it does apparently. It just didn't look right.
<james_w> by right thing I meant have "/usr/lib/bar/foo -> /usr/bin/foo" in the binary package.
<sistpoty> james_w: if /usr/bin/foo is in the depends of the package the link looks good... however the harder question is: why would you want to do such a link?
<james_w> sistpoty: ah, all the files are in the same package.
<james_w> I was just worried that it might get confused due to the absolute target.
<sistpoty> james_w: but then it still doesn't make sense to me imho
<james_w> a "cp" would obviously be wrong.
<james_w> I think the code is there for compatibility, "foo" moved to /usr/bin, but this makes sure you can still call /usr/lib/bar/foo
<sistpoty> but /usr/lib/bar/foo is not meant to be called directly. Do any depends call it?
<sistpoty> (or was it an error in the first place, and should have been in /usr/bin all the time, and scripts might rely on it?)
<sistpoty> s/depends/rdepends/ btw ;)
<james_w> not sure I'm afraid, I'm not familiar with the package, it just caught my eye, so I wanted to check.
<sistpoty> james_w: yeah... good catch :)
<james_w> thanks for the help
<sistpoty> np
<huats> norsetto: there I am
<getaceres> thank you for your help. It worked, now I have my package updated
<DRebellion> Would somebody mind giving my package a review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio Thanks ;)
<sistpoty> ScottK: finally commented on nxvl's package
<ScottK> sistpoty: Thanks.  I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but it looks like an interesting idea.  I'm glad he's working on it.
 * sistpoty must admit that he doesn't look at packages on REVU because he thinks them useful... at least most of the time :)
<ScottK> I don't normally hunt down reviewers without a good reason.
<sistpoty> heh :)
<norsetto> huats, porthose: hi guys sorry for the delay
<huats> norsetto: no pb
<huats> we are in meeting
<huats> I mean ubuntu-meeting
<huats> nxvl is not here yet
<norsetto> huats: I think porthose left already?
<huats> nope
<pochu> do .xpm icons need to call dh_icons?
<sistpoty> pochu: no idea, but I guess they should (otoh an icon cache should find newly added icons by itself, but that's not up for discussion *g*)
<huats> raphink: are you around ?
<huats> slomo__: are you around too ?
<pochu> sistpoty: ok, it won't hurt adding it if they don't anyway :)
<pochu> emgent: I'll call dh_icons in debian/rules and sponsor it, if you are OK ^
<emgent> ok nice
<emgent> but if i remember well it`snt necessary
<pochu> emgent: and build-depend on debhelper >= 5.0.51~ for it, that's fine for backporting to hardy, right?
<emgent> pochu: yes, backported in my PPA for test and work fine
<pochu> I mean, hardy's debhelper is >= 5.0.51, right?
<pochu> let me see
<pochu> yes, that's fine for gutsy too
<pochu> ok, uploading
<emgent> yes
<emgent> thanks pochu
 * sistpoty will be right back after a reboot
<emgent> hi no0tic :)
<no0tic> hi emgent
<jpds> evening no0tic
<no0tic> hi jpds :)
<sistpoty> hm.. things to not write on irc when on intrepid: "brb after reboot" *g* (epic fail!)
<ffm> is it too late to submit a package for intrepid?
<ScottK> No.
<ffm> ScottK: How long do I have?
<sistpoty> ffm: until FeatureFreeze (see wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule)
<pgib> August 28th I think
<pgib> I just asked the same question :)
<ffm> sistpoty: merci.
<sistpoty> ffm: de rien ;) (which is the only french I know *g*)
<aib> what can I do to help push a package that is currently in Debian's unstable branch into the next release of Ubuntu?
<aib> specifically, I am interested in the Debian unstable package libsoqt4-20. This is an SoQt thats linked against Qt-4, whereas the SoQt currently in Ubuntu is linked against Qt-3. Here's the url: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libsoqt4-20
<RoAkSoAx> aib, i believe libsoqt4-20 is already in the Intrepid repos: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=intrepid&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=libsoqt4-20
<aib> Nice.
<aib> that saves me a lot of work ^_^
<sistpoty> hm... /me is about to step motu-release on the feet: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23375/
 * sistpoty decides to step people on the feet
<ScottK> sistpoty: Thanks.  What I most want from motu-release this time is to not feel like it'll all fall apart if I get distracted, so thank you for stepping up.
<sistpoty> ScottK: not too sure if I did the right thing... but I think pointing out what went wrong is important, even if it hurts ppl.
<ScottK> I agree.  We'll see how it goes.
<sistpoty> hm.. /me has another entity to step on the feet.
<sistpoty> lol, that's so funny, while digging to find the "MC must vote after 12 days", I've seen so far ScottK's *motu* application and nixternal's
<sistpoty> damn, who else did I process back then *g*
<sistpoty> superm1: for sure ;)
<mario_limonciell> 12 days.  ha
<mario_limonciell> i think my app was open what like 100 days?
<sistpoty> mario_limonciell: at least that's what I thought, that MC came to this conclusion once... but mail-archive doesn't really support my memory ;)
<mario_limonciell> i thought i remembered reading  that too though
<mario_limonciell> and thinking to myself, oh this app will be closed out since no one responded in 12 days
<Laney> Can I kindly ask a backporter to look at and hopefully ACK bug #226587 please? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226587 in hardy-backports "Please backport xmonad and xmonad-contrib 0.7-1 from intrepid to hardy" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226587
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-28
 * sistpoty keeps on stepping people on the foot
<pochu> we could switch MC applications to answers.launchpad.net which expires unanswered tickets after 15 days :P
<daskreech> Hello
<daskreech> Will Virtualbox 1.6 have a package for hardy?
<pochu> bug 240856
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240856 in hardy-backports "Please backport virtualbox-ose 1.6.2 from Intrepid to hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/240856
<pochu> daskreech: ^ if that is approved, then yes (in the backports). So if you test it and give some feedback there, that would be appreciated
<daskreech> pochu: Oh you ^_^
<daskreech> gracias
<pochu> de nada :)
 * sistpoty is off to bed... gn8 everyone
<daskreech> NIght
<emgent> night.
<nxvl> emgent: have a beer in my name!
<cyberix> How does python library naming work?
<cyberix> there are lots of packages that are called python-pysomething
<cyberix> but then pycrypto is just called python-crypto
<cyberix> instead of python-pycrypto
<cyberix> "Public modules should be packaged with a name of python-foo, where foo is the name of the module."
<cyberix> So the module name of pycrypto is mere crypto
<cyberix> Did I get it right?
<pochu> cyberix: right
<pochu> if you do 'import crypto', then it should be python-crypto
<jscinoz> Does anyone else here use cowbuilder and run into problems building multiple packages concurrently, it would appear that /var/lib/dpkg is shared amoung all running chroots, any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
<DaskreecH> hi stdin
<DaskreecH> Have you ever used quote ?
<stdin> hey
<stdin> don't think so, what is it?
<DaskreecH> Dunno just noticed it gets installed by default
<stdin> on intrepid? (I have Hardy here)
<DaskreecH> On hardy
<nxvl> i think i have use it
<nxvl> it's just eastern egg
<nxvl> or something
<DaskreecH> nxvl: What is it for?
<stdin> "which quote" shows nothing, probably a bash built-in
<nxvl> it's kind of fun
<nxvl> DaskreecH: tipe quote on the terminal
<DaskreecH> I know :)
<nxvl> type*
<DaskreecH> stdin: it's a function
<stdin> ahh, I know what that is
<nxvl> is just to put quotes to a string
<stdin> it's from bash_completion
<DaskreecH> ah ok makes sense now
<nxvl> (i was confusing it with other tool which just prints famus quotes on the terminal)
<DaskreecH> ok well what I was really here to ask about was a bug :)
<DaskreecH> https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240856
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240856 in hardy-backports "Please backport virtualbox-ose 1.6.2 from Intrepid to hardy" [Undecided,New]
<DaskreecH> What's the likelihood of that happening?
<DaskreecH> is there license issues with backporting 1.6.2 to hardy?
<YokoZar> ScottK: I hope I did this right: I reset https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/240755 to confirmed to request a slightly newer version of the Intrepid package to replace the Wine backport
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240755 in hardy-backports "Please backport Wine 1.0 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Medium,Confirmed]
<kostmo> I'm getting a "native-package-with-dash-version" error from Lintian
<kostmo> it was suggested that my package be named pyrocket-0.5-0ubuntu1
<eboyjr> Will this help?: http://lintian.debian.org/tags/native-package-with-dash-version.html
<kostmo> I've seen the error explanation, but I don't understand how to fix it
<persia> kostmo: You need an orig.tar.gz in the parent directory when you build the package.
<persia> e.g. pyrocket_0.5.orig.tar.gz
<persia> s/e.g./i.e./ (Oops)
<kostmo> so starting from a clean package build, should I actually run debuild twice?
<persia> Not usually, although it can help detect certain classes of bugs.
<persia> Typically, one just renames the upstream tarball.
<kostmo> I'm not sure how to generate the orig.tar.gz file, actually
<kostmo> I'm packaging up my own program, btw
<persia> kostmo: Download the tar.gz file from upstream.  Rename it.
<persia> Ah.  Therein lies the confusion :)
<persia> You'll want to wear two different hats, and think about the program two different ways.
<persia> Firstly, make a perfect version with no debian/
<persia> Bundle that up into a tar.gz file and put it on the internet.
<persia> Next, rename the tarfile to orig.tar.gz, and add all the packaging information.
<kostmo> does it matter where (or at all) I put it on the internet?
<persia> Then, when you run debuild -S, you'll get a diff.gz with the packaging, and a .dsc.
<persia> It doesn't matter where you put it.  People tend to put them on the project homepage, and host them on the same service that hosts the code.
<persia> You want to have an internet-accesible archive of releases so you can construct a working watch file, to provide notification when the version in the distribution differs from the version upstream.
<kostmo> ok, so the orig.tar.gz doesn't have to have any kind of installer (i.e. more like a fend-for-yourself piece of code)?
<persia> As your project grows, you probably won't have time to focus on both packaging for each distribution and doing all the upstream work: creating this separation of concerns early makes that transition easy later.
<persia> Well, your life will be easier if your setup.py takes an install argument for a raw install.
<kostmo> ok
<persia> But no, no nice packaged installer to integrate with the distribution.
<persia> You'll likely want a slightly different set of packaging information to be able to integrate into each of Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, SuSE, slackware, etc.
<kostmo> under what circumstances would the distribution's version differ from my upstream version?
<kostmo> i.e. why do I need a 'watch' file?
<persia> kostmo: Well, firstly getting new upstream versions into released stable distributions is hard, so most distributors aren't likely to do that.
<persia> Secondly, as the number of distributions that packages pyrocket grows, you may not be watching them all, so it helps to have automated notification when there is a new upstream, for those packaging the updates for the given distribution.
<ScottK> YokoZar: Generally one files a new bug, but I think that will work.  Is it really worth another backport?
<kostmo> so the effectiveness of this watch file depends on having a stable URL for the upstream code?
<YokoZar> ScottK: Well if the backported one is going to be SRUed, then I think so.  The changes to the .desktop file to make it say "Wine Windows Program Loader" instead of "Wine Windows Emulator", but more importantly it also adds an association for .msi files.  If we also update shared-mime-info, then users will be able to double click msi files.
<ScottK> OK.  Sounds reasonable.
<kostmo> I hadn't considered starting a sourceforge project, but I guess I could
 * cody-somerville disturbingly just realizes he missed the MOTU-SRU meeting.
<persia> cody-somerville: It's important to stay on top of these things :)
<cody-somerville> ScottK, how did it go?
<ScottK> IIRC it went fine.
<ScottK> It's very late here and I'm not entirely awake.
<ScottK> Ask me again tomorrow.
<tooba1> hey, how is it possible that in REVU several packages have an empty Lintian file, while running Lintian gives lots of errors/warnings? I uploaded a package, and its Lintian file was correctly generated, but in other cases (e.g: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=playonlinux, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gedit-regex-plugin), it didn't happen
<geser> tooba1: my guess would be different versions of lintian
<tooba1> there are HUGE differences!
<tooba1> but, principally, the point is:
<tooba1> isn't the file automatically generated on server? So where would be the different Lintian versions?
<geser> the file is generated on the server, but I don't know which lintian version is there installed
<geser> if you run lintian on your system you might use a different version
<geser> and it also depends if you run lintian on the source package or on the binaries (debs)
<geser> revu checks only the source package
<tooba1> ok, I get it. Anyway, this is very strange, since there are a lot of things missing, so I think it's more probable that it's run with lots of "exclude" arguments (on the server)
<tooba1> the server doesn't have the binaries, as I see
<tooba1> I think it checks the ".changes", as I do
<wgrant> geser: I installed the latest backported lintian about a week ago - it definitely supports 3.8.0.
<geser> tooba1: then playonlinux and gedit-regex-plugin are lintian clean (at least the source packages)
<wgrant> tooba1: We can't risk building the packages, so we don't run it on binaries. Just sources.
<tooba1> wgrant: right. But running "lintian xyz.changes" means checking sources, right?
<wgrant> If it's a source-only changes, yes.
<emgent> morning
<tooba1> well... I thing that looking at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gedit-regex-plugin, you'll get the point. The "lintian" is empty, I attached a lintian report
<geser> Hi emgent
<tooba1> they're all source changes, obviously
<emgent> geser :)
<tooba1> (right?)
<wgrant> And it indeed runs on the .changes.
<tooba1> wait
<wgrant> All of those are binary issues.
<tooba1> here's a more interesting example
<wgrant> Except for the lack of intrepid.
<tooba1> exactly that
<wgrant> Your lintian is broken and/or out of date.
<geser> tooba1: you can also run lintian just on the .deb or the .dsc
<tooba1> I get it
<wgrant> It would be optimal to automatically build each upload, but that would imply development of a virtualised building infrastructure.
<tooba1>   ok
<geser> wgrant: doesn't revu run on a sparc machine? so it isn't the fastest either for building packages
<tooba1> but it's awful that lintian is not able to spot changes that ARE in the source files...
<wgrant> It's a 5 year old UltraSparc III, right.
<tooba1> anyway, [OT]
<wgrant> tooba1: It is...
<tooba1> thanks for the clarifications
<wgrant> tooba1: What didn't it pick up?
<tooba1> package-contains-empty-directory, readme-debian-contains-debmake-template, copyright-lists-upstream-authors-with-dh_make-boilerplate, copyright-without-copyright-notice, extended-description-is-empty, section-is-dh_make-template, script-not-executable, binary-without-manpage, extra-license-file, extended-description-line-too-long, unknown-section, python-script-but-no-python-dep
<tooba1> (in just 2 packages :-)
<wgrant> The second, third and fourth could be picked up, but the rest are binary issues.
<tooba1> yep
<tooba1> no wait, why not ï»¿"extended-description-is-empty"?
<wgrant> Because that's a binary attribute.
<wgrant> Though you should in general be able to check that in debian/control.
<wgrant> I don't believe it's required by policy, though.
<tooba1> aha
<k0p> hi all.
<k0p> I'm trying fix some issues in my package. What's binary-arch-rules-but-pkg-is-arch-indep ? can I make a package for 'all' arch?
<persia> k0p: That is a report that it appears debian/rules is calling the binary-arch target even when the package is architecture-independent.  You likely want to check the rules structure carefully.  `make -p -f debian/rules` may help, although it may confuse.
<k0p> persia, really nice. thanks for the help.
<k0p> :)
<persia> k0p: You may find that running lintian -iIv is more informative than lintian alone, for these expansions to be automated.
<k0p> persia, gh. I don't know the lintian command
<k0p> thanks :D
<k0p> persia, one more question
<k0p> the package on revu only have comment when does it have errors?
<cyberix> I considered packaging Astro Chicken, but then I changed my mind -> http://cs.helsinki.fi/u/twruottu/ss/astro_chicken.png
<cyberix> And no, I don't have a written permission to publish this screen shot
<tooba1> k0p; the package has comments when someone commented it :-)
<tooba1> it may have errors nobody noticed
<tooba1> it may have comments not regarding errors
<tooba1> tipically, the only systematic method of finding (many) errors if lintian
<tooba1> you build your package, then run "lintian nameofthepackage.changes"
<k0p> hmm yeap.. now I understand. I don't need upload to see the lintian file
<k0p> lol
<tooba1> right...
<tooba1> moreover, the lintian file you see when you upload shows a very small part of the potential errors, because it runs on the package not compiled
<tooba1> bye
<cyberix> k0p: Congrats. You are one step closer to being a perfect packager.
<k0p> lol
<k0p> cyberix, so far...
<cyberix> k0p: Not that far. It seems you found revu. Now you are getting one step closer every day.
<k0p> I would like that my package should be able in 8.10
<k0p> may be it not possible, right?
<k0p> is it late?
<cyberix> k0p: It is still possible
<cyberix> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<cyberix> k0p: k0p You should get it in before FeatureFreeze
<cyberix> (sorry for two nicks)
<cyberix> :-P
<k0p> hehe
<k0p> :)
<k0p> 28 th august right?
<cyberix> getting it in means that you must get two sponsors in revu and get someone to upload it before the FeatureFreeze
<cyberix> yes
<k0p> yeah ... but I don't have sponsors .. not yet :)
<k0p> i'm fixing issues on my package
<cyberix> Of course the package may be sent back to revu, if there is some big problem with it
<cyberix> But revu is trying to make sure there is nothing wrong with it before it gets uploaded
<k0p> hmm of course
<cyberix> There is one revuday each week
<k0p> cyberix, but in revu nobody make package.. only make sources
<k0p> really?
<cyberix> That is the day when you are supposed to ask sponsors
<k0p> I don't understand so much . .revu is compiling ?
<k0p> build packages? or what's that?
<cyberix> no
<cyberix> reviewing
<cyberix> so, if you want to be efficient you should fix all reported issuesduring the week between revu days, so you can ask for sponsors on each revu day
<cyberix> you can only ask for sponsors, if you have fixede all reported problems
<k0p> hmm
<k0p> yeah
<cyberix> then it is likely that someone looks at your package and reports more problems
<k0p> what the day of revu?
<k0p> so may be in next week my package found a sponsor?
<cyberix> In theory yes, but if you are very new at packaging you'll probably get error reports instead
<cyberix> :-)
<cyberix> revu day is announced in the topic of this channel
<cyberix> I'm not sure which weekday it currently is
<k0p> cyberix, well .. I have 4 Errors and 2 Warnings...
<cyberix> humans can usually find more errors than lintian :-)
<wgrant> cyberix: There isn't one at this time.
<cyberix> but ofcourse it makes no sense to ask humans before you have fixed the easy ones
<cyberix> wgrant: How is that?
<k0p> cyberix, of course.
<wgrant> cyberix: Nobody is running REVU days.
<cyberix> wgrant: Each day is a "revu day" then?
<wgrant> I guess that each day is equally REVU-friendly, perhaps.
<k0p> cyberix, in changelog.. intrepid is a versiong right?
<cyberix> I suppose revu days appear closer to release when people are busy
<cyberix> k0p: interpid is the codename for Ubuntu 8.10
<cyberix> k0p: So, you are working with the Umit package?
<k0p> yeap
<k0p> how you guess?
<cyberix> packager email address sounded similar to your (nick)name
<k0p> is intrepid or interpid?
<k0p> yeah
<k0p> :)
<cyberix> intrepid
<k0p> hmm
<cyberix> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intrepid
<cyberix> Does Umit depend on nmap or is it standalone?
<k0p> depend of nmap
<k0p> may be the error about bad-distro-name is because I don't have 8.10 installed.. I have 8.04
<cyberix> I think my 8.04 didn't complain about intrepid
<k0p> hmm
<k0p> cyberix, umit (0.9.5-ubuntu1) intrepid; urgency=low
<k0p> looks like fine?
<cyberix> I think the version number should be 0.9.5-0ubuntu1
<cyberix> but ofcourse you have to make that change to each place where you specify the version number
<k0p> right
<cyberix> k0p: Ok. I get the bad distro name error too
<cyberix> so it should be ok
<k0p> is n't 0.9.5-0ubuntu1?
<wgrant> cyberix: One only specifies the version number in a single place unless one is doing strange things that shouldn't be done.
<k0p> wgrant, but the trouble is in intrepid :/
<cyberix> Oh I forgot
<wgrant> k0p: Install lintian from hardy-backports.
<k0p> wow
<k0p> Online it don't appear
<wgrant> Hm?
<k0p> I don't have one error and one warning
<cyberix> Because they have a newer version of lintian there
<wgrant> Online where?
<k0p> wgrant, revu
<cyberix> revu of course
<wgrant> On REVU? I upgraded lintian there last week.
<k0p> wgrant, yeah.. I'll update lintian from backport
<k0p> thanks for the help
<k0p> :)
<wgrant> np
<cyberix> k0p: You should till change the version number to 0.9.5-0ubuntu1
<cyberix> That is something lintian won't warn about
<wgrant> It should, though.
<cyberix> Well, lintian doesn't report Ubuntu specific stuff, right?
<wgrant> cyberix: It doesn't, but it might be nice if it did.
<cyberix> k0p: I'm happy to see that someone is trying to package umit for Ubuntu.
<cyberix> k0p: I recall I wanted to try it out sometime, but didn't because there was no package.
<k0p> cyberix, I already make one package
<k0p> well.. We're working hard to release stable version
<k0p> before august
<k0p> after that we need to merge lot of features that was develpmenting in other branches.
<cyberix> You just have to figure out which version of nmap will ship with intrepid
<k0p> cyberix, it isn't a problem
<k0p> >=4.50
<k0p> right?
<cyberix> sure
<k0p> :)
<cyberix> btw specify the version requirement only, if umit really doesn't work well with older versions of nmap
<k0p> I have a working about native-package-with-dash-version
<k0p> hmm ok
<k0p> give me a second
<k0p> umit working nice with older version. . 4.20 it's nice. but I don't have totally sure about that
<k0p> i'll verify it
<cyberix> You can just say nmap in dependencies, without a version requirement
<cyberix> If upstream tells you not to use versions older than x, then that is valid reason for setting the requirement.
<k0p> cyberix, I do it
<k0p> ok
<cyberix> Now I have to do some household hacking
<cyberix> :-D
<k0p> hehe :)
<cyberix> See you later, and good luck with the project
<k0p> good luck
<k0p> thanks a lot for your help
<cyberix> no problem
<AnAnt> Hello. could some review those: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ubuntume-gdm-themes  ,                                                                           |
<AnAnt> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume
<persia> AnAnt: I'm going to discourage the use of REVU for package updates (like those), as they have an even greater chance of being ignored than other things on REVU.
<persia> That said, looking now.
<AnAnt> persia: errm, I don't understand
<AnAnt> persia: I mean, how would package updates be reviewed then ?
<persia> AnAnt: REVU is for new packages, not already in the archives.  For updates to packages already present, submitting a diff as a bug is preferred.
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> Mind you, for native packages, this doesn't always work, and you'll have to submit the entire tar.gz (which is part of why I don't like native packages).
<persia> AnAnt: Anyway, I know you, and know you maintain these packages, and know that they likely ought get updated, so unless I can find something extra wrong, I'll upload them this time: just please use a bug to update them in the future.
<AnAnt> sure thing
<AnAnt> thanks
<AnAnt> persia: btw, regarding webstrict, the maintainer is trying to get it in Debian
<AnAnt> persia: anyways, he'll need to make changes, seems that debian don't have openjdk yet
<AnAnt> persia: oh, for java based software, should the package build-depend on openjdk or on default-jdk
<persia> AnAnt: Ah.  Right.  I think there was an effort to do that.  You might ask on #debian-java on OFTC to check the current status.
<persia> That said, if it can build on gcj, that would be far preferable.
<AnAnt> persia: how about default-jdk ?
<AnAnt> persia: btw, thanks for the link !
<k0p> cyberix, are you there?
<persia> k0p: It's generally best to ask your questions and look for whoever is about to answer: you may need a specific person, but even then, telling them what you seek can help them form an answer when they return, in case you are not watching at that moment.
<cyberix> k0p: I'm here
<cyberix> k0p: I'm having a coffee break from household hacking
<bliZZardz> is DBus part of Gnome?
<jpds> bliZZardz: I think it's idenpentant of the DE: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
<persia> bliZZardz: GNOME relies on DBUS, but other things do as well.  Why?
<bliZZardz> persia : bon jour! well, i was just exploring DBUS, hence curious to understand it - was not sure whether it is 'still' being used
<persia> bliZZardz: It is very much in use.
<bliZZardz> persia : any good place/link to understand GNOME better(except for the code:P )
<persia> bliZZardz: gnome.org?
<persia> That said, I think the code is better: I'd recommend looking at session, panel, and menus primarily.
<bliZZardz> persia : any specific reasons for that rationale?
<persia> bliZZardz: I found it more useful?
<bliZZardz> persia : useful as in??? gtk code that can be used in other ways?
<k0p> persia, ok.
<k0p> sorry
<k0p> i'm trying to solve native-package-with-dash-version warning. it's cause is set as debian native package? I would like know how solve this
<persia> bliZZardz: Useful in understanding how GNOME works.  For GTK code, look at your favorite GTK application.
<persia> k0p: You need an orig.tar.gz file.  Then rebuild.  That's it.
<k0p> persia, just make a rename?
<persia> Right.  rename the upstream tar.gz file to match the naming convention for orig.tar.gz, and you should be good.
<k0p> persia, thanks. silented this warning
<bliZZardz> persia : you know of any channels/forums wherein i can application deisgn questions/queries?
<persia> bliZZardz: I don't.  Sorry.
<DRebellion> Could someone review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=monkeystudio Thanks ;)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi sebner
 * sistpoty reboots again, and hopes to be right back *g*
<DktrKranz> reboot? what does this word mean?
 * sistpoty grumbles a little bit about being forced to use the nv driver instead of the blob
<sebner> sistpoty: you too? ^^
<sistpoty> yep
<sebner> sistpoty: kernÃ¶l?
<sistpoty> sebner: 2.6.26-2-generic
<sistpoty> (lrm doesn't seem to contain nvidia blob any longer... /me wonders where it went)
<sebner> sistpoty: kay. though also compiling and using that thing on the old 2.6.24 kernel isn't working :(
<persia> sistpoty: Which version of libdrm do you have?
 * DRebellion gumbles a little bit about never getting a review :P
<sistpoty> persia: 2.3.0-4ubuntu1
<persia> Oh well.  No nouveau either then
<persia> DRebellion: Yeah.  This cycle has been weak on reviews.  Sorry about that.
<DRebellion> persia, by cycle, do you mean up to alpha1?
<persia> DRebellion: I mean intrepid
<DRebellion> oh, right
<DRebellion> =
<DRebellion> =(
<\sh> sebner: do you want to work on an SRU?
<kostmo> hey all, I have uploaded my package to REVU, am I supposed to get an e-mail with login information? Package is here: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=2611
<sebner> \sh: depending on how urgent it is since today I haven't got really time to work on it but tomorrow
<sistpoty> kostmo: just try to log in with your email address and give no password, then there'll be a "recover password" link
<\sh> sebner: bug #241587 check the debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 241587 in claws-mail "bugfix batch for Hardy's Claws Mail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241587
<\sh> sebner: check if it works on hardy etc :)
<sebner> \sh: so many patches to test O_o . I never used claws mail so I have to waste time for setting it up correctly and test then every patch?
<\sh> sebner: no..the patches are coming from upstream....
<\sh> sebner: just make a "run test" the more in-deep testing we are doing via -proposed
<sebner> \sh: ah ^^ kk. ok if tomorrow?
<\sh> sebner: I trust upstream in this..colin was very helpful...
<\sh> sebner: sure :)
<sebner> \sh: np, Will do and ping you tomorrow about it then
<\sh> sebner: I'm busy with leonov release tomorrow and in the evening I'm watching EM finals ;)
<sebner> \sh: bah! but me too. except the leonov thing xD
<sistpoty> doko: ok if I grab crystalspace merge from you?
<Lutin> johanbr: looking at the empathy buildlog would have shown you that it failed because some packages it relies on were broken at the time it was built
<johanbr> Lutin: Right. Do you know if those packages have been fixed?
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, devfil was looking at it, he should have a debdiff ready
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: ah, thanks... didn't find a bug on lp, so I assumed it wasn't taken yet
<Lutin> johanbr: I gave it back on i386, built fine, waiting for it to go through NEW
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: and just in time... as at this moment dl of the source packages finished *g*
<DktrKranz> heh
<johanbr> Lutin: Alright. Thanks.
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, FYI bug 242961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242961 in crystalspace "Please update crystalspace to 1.2.1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242961
<sistpoty> DktrKranz: ah... I guess I was confused that the title didn't contain "merge" *g*
<guest22> Can someone please help with an (apparently) difficult question on the appropriate version number to assign to a package to be uploaded as a stable release update?
<DktrKranz> sistpoty, probably because he was trying to get package in shape again, since it requires much love
<DktrKranz> and I guess merge is not enough :P
<devfil> sistpoty: in Debian package fails to build, I've merged it and updated it to the latest version
<guest22> There's a significant bug in the package which is currently in hardy (version 0.25-0ubuntu1) which has been fixed by a new upstream release which is now in intrepid as 0.26-0ubuntu1. What should the version number be for the hardy release of 0.26, since 0.26-0ubuntu1 is already taken by the intrepid release, and 0.26-0ubuntu2 incorrectly implies that it follows the intrepid release?
<DktrKranz> guest22, 0.26-0ubuntu1.1
<DktrKranz> mh... no, I misread
<DktrKranz> 0.25-0ubuntu1.1 should fit
<guest22> DktrKranz: But the new release for hardy would be based on 0.26 upstream, so surely 0.25-xxx is incorrect?
<devfil> guest22: 0.26-0ubuntu0.1
<DktrKranz> guest22, if new upstream release is a bugfix release, you can use 0.26-0ubuntu1~hardy1
<guest22> devfil and DktrKranz: any suggestions on which is preferred, 0.26-0ubuntu0.1 or  0.26-0ubuntu1~hardy1 (yes, it is a bugfix release)?
<devfil> guest22: ~hardy1
<guest22> devfil and DktrKranz: OK, thanks to both of you for the advice. One additional question:  the wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates mentions uploading to release-proposed, but doesn't give any more details. Do I just do dput to hardy-proposed? If so, where do I find the dput config for this upload target?
<devfil> guest22: in changelog use hardy-proposed
<DktrKranz> guest22, just attach a debdiff for hardy-proposed to a bug report, subscribe motu-sru for approval and wait for sponsors to upload package for you.
<guest22> DktrKranz: Ah, so I just ignore the additional instructions at the StableReleaseUpdates wiki, eg. "4. Upload the fixed package to release-proposed with the patch in the bug report ..."?
<DktrKranz> guest22, yes. This is managed by developers who have upload rights.
<DktrKranz> as much as following steps
<guest22> DktrKranz: OK, thanks. It really would be useful to have better documentation for package maintainers so that one doesn't have to clarify everything on IRC.
<guest22> Apologies for the heresy, but the Fedora people really are ahead in this respect.
<DktrKranz> guest22, it's a work in progress, We hope to have something better soon.
<guest22> DktrKranz: Sure, I understand.
<DktrKranz> thanks for bringing us bugfix releases :)
<guest22> DktrKranz: No point in going to the effort of getting a package accepted, and then ignoring bugs, eh?
<DktrKranz> we usually don't ignore bugs, there have been cases where updates were problematic (e.g. new version had new features, which do not fit well with our policy), but the great majority of bugs are processed successfully.
<DktrKranz> if new release is just bugfix, it's just the matter to find some test cases to check if bugs are addressed correctly
<highvoltage> does canonical use livecd.sh to build the squashfs images in ubuntu?
<geser> DktrKranz: re the apache2-mpm-itk SRU: does intrepid need to be fixed now? as I assume that apache2 will see some more uploads till release, apache2-mpm-itk will need some more rebuilds till then
<krzysz01> i just fogured out that sometimes when making .debs have to copy binaries makeally to (your package)-(version/debian/(your package)/(whatever directory on the filesystem the binary should be added to)
<ScottK> geser: It's good to keep it in sync as you go.
<DktrKranz> geser, let's have it in our radars. Maybe we can  milestone it for 8.10 or RC
<krzysz01> I have built a package of my project. what do i do now?
<geser> ScottK: ok, will do a rebuild
<ScottK> I may be a little paranoid about it because I ended up forgetting one on another package for Hardy and had to do an SRU.
<DktrKranz> that's would be a shame
<geser> ScottK: I have made several rebuild of apache2-mpm-itk already so I hopefully don't forget it till release (and it should pop up when I check unmet deps before release if it needs a rebuild). That's also the reason why I catched it that apache2-mpm-itk needs a rebuild when I saw the apache2 SRUs on hardy-changes.
<ScottK> geser: If you want to wait to upload it, I'm OK.  If it was me, I'd upload it.
 * DktrKranz will process more SRUs when able to boot new 2.6.26, VMware is not working properly with 2.6.24 and intrepid :S
<tacone> DktrKranz: virtual box 1.6.2 should be able to support the new kernel. http://virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog
<DktrKranz> tacone, yes, but VM images provided by canonical are for VMware only, I need to port them to virtualbox
<geser> ScottK: I've no problem doing a upload right now (at least I don't forget to close the bug later), but it isn't a top priority right now knowing that it will break again (hardy had 5 rebuilds (and 1 new version))
<tacone> DktrKranz: didn't know canonical provids vm images. virtualbox should be able to import them, although last time I tried (many months ago) it didn't worked.
<DktrKranz> oh, and why my clock says it's 20:47 when it's 21:17? is NTP broken?
<johanbr> NTP will not set the clock if the difference is too big.
<DktrKranz> tacone, I'll have a try with new kernel benC uploaded last night
<tacone> DktrKranz: nice.
<DktrKranz> johanbr, sometimes it just goes out of sync, it does it automatically. I'll move to manual
<johanbr> If ntpd can't keep your clock synced, something is wrong.
<DktrKranz> it does on a random basis, sometimes it's synced
<DktrKranz> and sometimes not (as of now)
<johanbr> Probably either you're syncing with a bad server, you have a very jittery network connection or your internal timesource is unreliable.
<sistpoty> hm... as promised, mail about DIF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23581/ anything I missed, should be clearer or other comments?
<ScottK> sistpoty: I'd take the bit about new versions being good out.
<ScottK> Other than that, I'm good.
<sistpoty> ScottK: you mean like that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23582/
<sistpoty> ScottK: do you think it's clear enough, that ppl. won't start to ask if a merge should still be done?
<ScottK> I think it's good.
<sistpoty> ScottK: ok, thanks for reviewing :).
<sistpoty> hm... apt and it's recommends are really annoying... it somehow decided to install (upgrade?) frozen-bubble after an apt-get -f install in order to test the wordpress merge
<highvoltage> heh, that's actually more funny than annoying.
 * highvoltage is a bit scared of the apt-recommends thing
<sistpoty> well, f-b is one of the ~30 packages it draws in
 * sistpoty still blames the perl transition *g*
<highvoltage> does it pull in the reccommends from the recommended packages too?
<sistpoty> highvoltage: I assume it does. not too sure though (and imo most packages it draws in for me are ones that are just upgraded... though a apt-get upgrade holds these back)
<highvoltage> I guess it will just take some time for everyone to get used to it.
<sistpoty> oh, nice... the first apt-get -f install failed. now it draws in even more packages. apt's behaviour appears somehow random to me *g*
<sistpoty> hm... I'm just trying a very interesting upgrade, which might remove parts of kde for me. so in case I won't be on irc tomorrow, figure out what went wrong *g*
<highvoltage> screen and irssi dude ;)
 * highvoltage ducks
<sistpoty> nah, I want some clicky stuff at least (kvirc) *g*
<sistpoty> highvoltage: I mean can irssi inform me if I'm highlighted via try bubble opening? (imo a killer feature of kvirc)
<sistpoty> s/try/tray/
<highvoltage> yep
<sistpoty> damn *g*
<highvoltage> I think nixternal blogged about how to do that at some point
<highvoltage> it doesn't do it out of the box, but iirc it's quite easy to implement
<sistpoty> heh, so it involves fiddling with stuff... /me rather fiddles with source packages *g*
<highvoltage> http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.03.22/notify-works-in-kubuntu/ and http://pthree.org/2007/03/21/irssi-gui-notify/ explains
<sistpoty> I mean I'm even to lazy to recompile the nvidia blob (which I used to do on unstable) and instead use nv *g*
 * highvoltage is too lazy to even buy nvidia
<sistpoty> well, back then ati didn't offer docs yet *g*
<sistpoty> oh nice link!
<highvoltage> by some sheer luck, all my machines just happen to have intel display chips, which happen to work beautifully in ubuntu
<sistpoty> well, as I have very much fun of playing games, nvidia used to have the best opengl driver, so that's what I bought
<highvoltage> I must admit, I have an Nvidia card lying around too. I bought it because I needed a DVI port, which my onboard card didn't have
<highvoltage> but in the end I got a mac mini which had a dvi port. luckily it has an intel chip onboard.
<ppp> Gday all. I posted on the motu list, no feedback, is there any particular reason why its taking 2 years to get tripwire updated?
<sistpoty> ppp: #ubuntu-motu please for universe stuff
<sistpoty> oh, he, wrong tab *g*
<sistpoty> sorry
<sistpoty> ppp: we've synced tripwire right from unstable. as we're a small team, we cannot care for every package in ubuntu alone, but rather rely on debian/unstable there
<ppp> Ok thank you, so I should take the matter up with Debian?
<sistpoty> ppp: hence the best way to get a new upstream version (apart from doing it yourself) is to file a whishlist bug against debian/unstable for tripwire
<sistpoty> yes
<ppp> Right, I can contribute well on testing but Im not a packager, so I will discuss with Debian
<sistpoty> ppp: if a version number of a package doesn't contain "ubuntu" then, it's usually straight synced from unstable
<ppp> Good to know thanks
<cyberix> What should happen after a new upstream version of a package gets released?
<sistpoty> ppp: I guess just filing a wishlist bug against debian bts is the best way to proceed (iirc daniel baumann, the debian maintainer does quite a good job)
<cyberix> Who should do what?
<cyberix> I suppose some one has to do something, so the package will get updated
<sistpoty> cyberix: if it's a local package in ubuntu, it's best that the package updates it (since he/she knows it best)
<sistpoty> cyberix: likewise there is the option to file a bug, but we're quite lacking behind in regards to sponsoring
<sistpoty> cyberix: finally, if the source is unstable, the best way is to file a bug there... bonus points for attaching s.th. usable in regards to a new upstream version
<sistpoty> s/package/packager/ in the first sentence :)
<cyberix> sistpoty: "s.th. usable" == new source package?
<sistpoty> cyberix: for example
<sistpoty> cyberix: however don't focus too much on providing a "patch"... it's imho not too likely, that a new upstream version will just get uploaded from such a patch
<sistpoty> (but rather that the corresponding maintainer will do it on his/her own)
<krzysz01> i have a pjoject readfile. i built a package and put it into my ppa check it out (krzysdrewniak on launchpad)
<cyberix> sistpoty: How about a case where I am that maintainer ;-)
<sistpoty> cyberix: you mean in unstable?
<cyberix> yes
<sistpoty> cyberix: then write a mail to youself requesting a new upstream version :P
<cyberix> X-D
<cyberix> I wonder, if I'll ever understand how this works
<cyberix> Has anyone ever updated an Ubuntu package to new upstream version?
<directhex> technically no
<directhex> i've prepared a new debian package though
<cyberix> How should I provide an icon for files with a certain mime-type?
<bluefoxicy> the hell?
<bluefoxicy> "Who knows?  Maybe you'll go down in Income Investor history as the one who crafted our motto -- a part of the whole.  Ubuntu, indeed."
<bluefoxicy> oh god
<bluefoxicy> "Ubuntu describes .... While it may not be well known outside South Africa (except perhaps in South Boston)"  ROFL
<neurobuntu> will debs that are compiled in debian work in ubuntu? and visa versa?
<cyberix> neurobuntu: They might
<cyberix> neurobuntu: There is no guarantee
<neurobuntu> ok thanks
<sistpoty> hm.. I'm doing s.th. wrong. I tried to process the sponsors queue today, but I only found one thing to upload, out of 10 or so rejects.
<kostmo> I was wondering if any Ubuntu Developers would be willing to review/sign off my package: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/242910
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242910 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] pyrocket" [Wishlist,In progress]
<sistpoty> kostmo: I'll take a look in a few minutes
<kostmo> thanks!
<sistpoty> kostmo: any reason for the version 0.5-ubuntu6 in debian/changelog (why not use -0ubuntu1)?
<sistpoty> kostmo: also, your upload is targeted at hardy instead of intrepid
<kostmo> sistpoty: I was getting lintian warnings on my system, which the PPA and later REVU would treat as errors, and at least the PPA wouldn't let me re-upload the same version
<kostmo> so I kept incrementing the version number until I got it right
<kostmo> I was wondering whether I should put intrepid in there
<kostmo> I know it works on Hardy, because that's the system I have
<sistpoty> kostmo: yes, you'll need to put intrepid there, as hardy is released, and hence we cannot add new packages to it
<kostmo> ah ic
<kostmo> can you put multiple release codenames in the changelog?
<sistpoty> no
<kostmo> I haven't downloaded the alpha/beta of Intrepid for testing on my machine
<kostmo> would I need to do that first?
<sistpoty> kostmo: you should do so, at least in a chroot ;)
<kostmo> when you say chroot, do you mean for building the package?
<kostmo> I'm not sure how you would run intrepid in chroot, or what that means exactly
<sistpoty> kostmo: both for building it and for testing it
<sistpoty> kostmo: s.th. like "sudo deboostrap /path/to/chroot intrepid"
<sistpoty> kostmo: then you can test it inside the chroot with chroot /path/to/chroot
<emgent> hello there
<sistpoty> hi emgent
<kostmo> is there a tutorial/walkthrough you could point me at for this chroot procedure?
<emgent> sistpoty: hi man :)
<sistpoty> kostmo: man debootstrap should give you a starting point...
<sistpoty> kostmo: others than that, I'm not sure if there's a tutorial
<kostmo> I'm looking at that now... it says you can use a URL for a mirror?
<sistpoty> kostmo: then use your ubuntu mirror of choice ;) (probably its debootstrap /path/to/chroot intrepid <mirrorlocation>(
<sistpoty> (straight from my memory though()
<kostmo> so does that mean I don't have to download a livecd for intrepid?  I've never tried a distro pre-release before
<sistpoty> kostmo: no,  debootstrap will download the necessary packages to well, create a minimal chroot for intrepid
<geser> kostmo: pyrocket commented
<sistpoty> geser: cheater :P
<geser> sistpoty: I saw after I commented that you do an real-time review
<sistpoty> geser: well, I was more busy with chroot issues than reviewing :P
<sistpoty> kostmo: heh, now you've got two comments for your package ;)
<sistpoty> woohoo... another package from ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue uploaded :)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-06-29
<sistpoty> aaaaahhh... all my mail seems to be gone
<sistpoty> dear kmail, please don't shock me like this, sincerely yours, stefan.
<cyberix> If I send a patch for Hardy, should I send the patch for Intrepid too?
<persia> cyberix: The general rule is that nothing not fixed in intrepid will be uploaded to hardy.
<geser> cyberix: for an SRU?
<persia> To avoid confusion, I'd recommend putting both patches in the same bug.
<cyberix> no, just a small patch
<cyberix> Actually there is no use to ship this for Hardy
<persia> cyberix: Any change to hardy at this point is an SRU, even a just a 1-bit change
<cyberix> I'm just trying to understand how the processes work
<cyberix> k
<cyberix> so it is stable instead of source :-)
<geser> has someone an idea what went wrong during this build? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15562990/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.libgnupg-interface-perl_0.36-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sistpoty> geser: hm... "which gpg ... gpg (GnuPG) not found at Makefile.PL line 21." might give some clue?
<persia> sistpoty: But build-essential depends on dpkg-dev, which depends on gnupg
<sistpoty> persia: which doesn't mean that Makefile.PL is correct thought ;)
<persia> sistpoty: True.
<geser> sistpoty: it builds in my pbuilder
<sistpoty> geser: hm... strange
 * persia tries in sbuild, to see if it is due to pbuilder-satisfybuilddepends
<sistpoty> persia, geser: oh, dpkg-dev doesn't b-d on gnupg
<persia> !
<sistpoty> (at least not 1.14.20ubuntu1)
<persia> How did that become Suggests: ?  That's rather unexpected.
<geser> but gnupg is installed (see the gpg signature check after the source is extracted)
<persia> No, that's just me reading apt-cache output wrong.
<persia> geser: There's something very odd: that buildlog also has "sh: gcc: not found"
<sistpoty> hm... dear kmail, don't disconnect me from the outside world, by not letting me receive mails from a local mbox. thanks.
<persia> Builds cleanly in my intrepid sbuild chroot.
<sistpoty> persia: hm... however it has: "Setting up g++-4.3 (4.3.1-1ubuntu2) ..."
<persia> sistpoty: Right, which is why I thought "sh: gcc: not found" was odd.
<persia> I find it especially odd right after "Toolchain package versions: ... gcc-4.3_4.3.1-1ubuntu2"
<geser> if I understand the Makefile.PL correnctly the second "gpg" in the line "which gpg ... gpg" should come from the system() call, right?
<persia> geser: Right.  I would have expected "/usr/bin/gpg"
<persia> I think that system($gpg_find) is returning nothing, and the second gpg is coming from 'die "gpg (GnuPG) not found";'
<geser> yes, you are correct
<geser> perl -e "system('which gpg')" returns here /usr/bin/gpg
<persia> Looks like this was the first build since edgy.  Maybe this is a case of someone hand-adjusting things.
<geser> persia: gcc-4.3 only provides /usr/bin/gcc-4.3, /usr/bin/gcc is in gcc but that's also installed
<persia> geser: Still, it's odd to see a report that gcc is not found.
<geser> true
<geser> someone messing with $PATH?
<persia> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/3087635/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.libgnupg-interface-perl_0.33-6_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz looks rather different: Makefile.PL likely changed a bit upstream.
<persia> Could be the common situation with arch:all that the Debian build wasn't run in a sanitised chroot...
<geser> but why does the same source package build in my pbuilder and your sbuild but not on the buildd?
<persia> Do you have gnupg installed in your chroot?  It seems to be in mine.
<bobbo> sistpoty: thanks for sponsoring my memaker upload :)
<sistpoty> bobbo: thanks for providing a debdiff in the fisrt place ;)
<bobbo> sistpoty: hehe, my pleasure
<geser> persia: I have, but how did dpkg-source (on the buildd) check the gpg signature without gnupg? (gpg: Signature made Tue Jun 24 07:31:19 2008 BST using DSA key ID 9725F63B)
 * sistpoty goes to bed now... gn8 everyone
<geser> persia: the "sh: gcc: not found
<geser> " seems to be normal now
<geser> it's also in successfully build logs, e.g. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15590444/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.apache2_2.2.9-2ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<persia> That's very odd.  Maybe the "gcc" package isn't installed, or poorly configured, or something.
<geser> "Setting up gcc (4:4.3.1-1ubuntu2) ..." seems ok to me
<persia> geser: I have to agree that gpg is installed.  I don't know why "which gpg" wouldn't work.
<geser> persia: n8, I'll try to ask the buildd admins if they have an idea why libgnupg-interace-perl FTBFS  (and also about the "sh: gcc: not found" thing)
<LaserJock> is anybody using sbuild+some apt cacher with both Debian and Ubuntu ?
 * persia checks the default /bin/sh in the sbuild schroot
<persia> No, I seem to have dash, so that's not it.
 * persia is baffled
<geser> persia: a reason why gcc and gpg are not found could be that /usr/bin is not in the PATH for some reason on the buildd
<persia> geser: Maybe, but why would it be able to call dpkg-source (also in /usr/bin)?
<persia> Further, dpkg-source checks for the existence of /usr/bin/gpg, but then calls gpg without a prefix path.
<persia> It's backticks rather than system(), but that oughtn't be sufficient to make it work or fail.
<geser> does it get called as "dpkg-source" or "/usr/bin/dpkg-source"?
<geser> hmm, dpkg-source calls gpg without the full path to do the signature check, so PATH seems to be ok
<persia> Right.
<geser> what about giving it back to the buildds and hope that it gets tried on a different buildd?
<persia> That's why they put the button there :)
<geser> nothing changed :( still FTBFS
 * geser goes to bed now
<persia> geser: Sleep well.
<RAOF> Hm.  Gnome-do-plugins in Ubuntu has a do-plugins as its source package, but gnome-do-plugins in Debian has gnome-do-plugins as its source package.  I'm rebasing the Ubuntu package on the Debian package; do I upload as gnome-do-plugins and ask for removal of do-plugins?
<wgrant> RAOF: Please... do.
<RAOF> wgrant: :P
<RAOF> wgrant: Do you know if I need to ask for the removal of do-plugins source before uploading gnome-do-plugins?  Otherwise there'll be a binary package name conflict, and I'm not sure how those get dealt with.
<wgrant> RAOF: As long as the version is greater, it will be fine.
<wgrant> They'll go through binary NEW, but then dominate the old binaries, so your new ones won't be removed with the old source just because they have the same name.\
<wgrant> Grmph. Why is Full Circle Magazine recommending Webmin?
<wgrant> And 'sudo su'?
<wgrant> Ehem, and they used a pre-Hardy interview...
<wgrant> And they recommend using Debian packages. Ew ew ew.
<Flannel> wgrant: Where?
<wgrant> Flannel: To which bit?
<\sh> moins
<Flannel> wgrant: Um, all of them if theyre convienent
<jpds> wgrant: I think you can find them lurking in #fullcirclemagazine ;-=
<jpds> moin \sh
<wgrant> jpds: Ah, perhaps.
<wgrant> Flannel: I glanced through the latest edition (#14).
<wgrant> They're fairly easy to find with any search functionality.
<Flannel> wgrant: Alright, thats all I needed to know
<Flannel> Didn't want to start from 0
<Iulian> G'morning
<sistpoty> hi folks
<geser> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi geser
<sistpoty> hm... last nights dist-upgrade with many kde parts getting upgraded left me with a gnome session... epic fail *g*
<geser> sistpoty: it's part of the hidden master plan to convert all kde users to gnome :)
<sistpoty> haha
<elky> i like the sound of this plan...
<RAOF> Hm.  I'm just trying Intrepid KDE.  Again.
<RAOF> Is the display settings panel _meant_ to do anything, or just look (not) pretty? :)
<jussi01> someone remind me of the build a .dsc command?
<RAOF> sbuild -d intrepid foo.dsc ? :)
<RAOF> On the other hand: dear GTK: please implement something like the smooth animation of the output list.
<jussi01> no, the dpkg one?
<RAOF> Is there one?
<jussi01> hrm... /me goes to google more
<RAOF> You dpkg-source -x it, then dpkg-buildpackage the extracted source.
<RAOF> (or debian/rules binary, if you're confident it's policy-compliant :))
<jussi01> RAOF: ahh, yeah thats the one
<jussi01> RAOF: its just a personal thing, nothing for ubutnu atm.
<RAOF> Um.  Why does Kubuntu default to playing a 'ding' every time I press a button?
<wgrant> RAOF: Because it's kool.
<RAOF> Gah!  KDE is so easy to break!
<RAOF> I seem to have created a panel covering my entire second monitor.
<wgrant> Nice!
<wgrant> KDE4 or not?
<RAOF> Kwin now believes that maximise about 30x20 pixels in the top left corner, too.
<RAOF> KDE4
<RAOF> Hm.  It is apparently imperitive that I don't alt-tab, lest kwin consume 100% cpu and lock the desktop.
<persia> RAOF: Just use the panel on your second monitor to control which app you are using.  That way you won't need the keyboard at all :)
<RAOF> The panel on my second monitor is entirely empty, and unresponsive to mouse clicks :)
<RAOF> Maybe it's not even a panel?  Maybe something just decided to fill my second monitor with all black.
<RAOF> Oooh, maximising works again!
<RAOF> I was going to spend some time using kde to file some bugs, but kubuntu appears to be composed entirely of bugs.  I must be an expert kde-breaker.
<StevenK> "I'd file bugs, but maybe what I think are bugs are really features."
<persia> Everything in a feature, for the right use case...
<RAOF> The biggest "feature" seems to be semi-awareness of dual head.
<RAOF> It knows my laptop's running at 1680x1050, so the panel is 1680 wide.
<RAOF> However, when it started up my two monitors were cloned.  Thus, the desktop is the size of the smaller of the two.
<RAOF> Sadly, this means that the left hand side of the panel, containing, among other things, the launcher, is offscreen.
<StevenK> Teehee
<RAOF> W.T.F?
 * RAOF blinks again.
<persia> Right-justification is always correct :)
<RAOF> Pressing the "configure this panel" button (not labelled as such in any way, of course) brings up, among other things, 3 arrows.
<RAOF> In some as yet undiscovered way, these three arrows influence the size of the panel.
<StevenK> That sounds intutive.
<RAOF> As well as some left/centre/right justification boxes.
<RAOF> Also intuitively: selecting the text which is left justified causes the panel to be right justified on my right hand monitor.
<RAOF> Centre works as expected, but the right-justification button causes it to be right-justified on my left monitor.
<RAOF> Hm.  How do I make the clock show 12h time?  Hint: it doesn't involve right clicking on the clock, apparently.
<StevenK> RAOF: You switch to Ubuntu?
<RAOF> Entirely possible, yes.  I'd like to file at least _some_ bugs first, though.
<RAOF> Such as "has no concept of multi-head"
<persia> Could anyone explain why pycentral might report "pycentral: pycentral pkginstall: not overwriting local files", as in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14327059/DpkgTerminalLog.txt?  Is this likely due to user customisation, or is it a packaging issue?
<geser> persia: looking into /usr/bin/pycentral this seems to be set from the option "overwrite-local" in /etc/python/debian_config
<geser> I don't have it set in my /etc/python/debian_config
<wgrant> persia: I've seen the problem with a Dapper upgrade.
<geser> man pycentral mentions this option in the FILES section
<wgrant> But it doesn't look like it could be the problem here.
<persia> So, do I need to do anything to the package to fix it, or just leave it alone?  (I'm processing NBS, so like to minimize actual changes)
<wgrant> In my case, python-opengl didn't conflict with python2.4-opengl, so pycentral refused to overwrite the python2.4 opengl bits.
<wgrant> Adding a conflicts against it was the solution there, but it could be a local installation in this case.
<persia> Should python-csound conflict with python2.5-csound, just to be sure?
<persia> It currently Provides: it, which makes me think that such a package used to exist (or maybe python2.4-csound)
<geser> the provides are generated: Provides: ${python:Provides}
<emgent> morning
<persia> geser: Right.  I'm just wondering if it needs a conflicts, or if bug #227651 is not really valid.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227651 in csound "package python-csound 1:5.08.0.dfsg2-1ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227651
<persia> Grumble.  Publisher appears out of date for glib2.0-dev on archive.ubuntu.com :(
<wgrant> persia: Hm?
<wgrant> There is no glib2.0-dev, is there?
<wgrant> And all right libglib2.0-devs are there..
<persia> Err.  Right.  libglib2.0-dev.  1ubuntu2 is in packages for amd64, and 1ubuntu3 is in the pool (1ubuntu2 is gone).  I presume it will catch up soon.
<wgrant> Oops.
<wgrant> That is a bug.
<wgrant> Though it may be a sysadmin bug.
<persia> Yep.  The first package I ran worked, but the ~12:00 UTC run seems to have befuddled it.
<persia> Is the bug likely to be a Packages.gz construction issue, or just a timing issue?
<wgrant> Um, glib2.0 has been a sync for three weeks now.
<wgrant> No ubuntuX.
<geser> persia: hardy or intrepid?
<wgrant> Oh, right, Hardy makes more sense.
<wgrant> I forget that it still exists.
<persia> geser: intrepid.  I'm tesing bare package install now, rather than looking at a build failure, just in case I did something wrong.
<wgrant> What's the full version you want?
<wgrant> 'Version: 2.17.2-1'
<wgrant> That's in amd64 Packages.gz on a.u.c.
<persia> Right.  I'm not sure where I got the error.  I may have inadvertantly spelled intrepid h-a-r-d-y.
<wgrant> Heh
<krzysz01> A have a project readfile. i have made .debs for it and they are in my ppa (krzysdrewniak on launchpad) check it out.
<krzysz01> what should i do now?
<krzysz01> i made a .deb of wine 1.0
<persia> krzysz01: What is your goal?
<krzysz01> i'm trying readfile into the repos, but it needs some polishing still
<persia> krzysz01: Are you up for polishing it, or do you need review?
<krzysz01> i am adding some new features before i submit it for review
<krzysz01> i'm still working on it
<persia> krzysz01: Then the answer to the question "what should i do now?" is "add some new features before submitting it for review".
<krzysz01> stay tuned it will probably be good when i get to 1.0
<krzysz01> see ya
<DktrKranz> bah... packages.{ubuntu.com,debian.org} are not responding
<persia> DktrKranz: packages.qa.debian.org, launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/$(pkgname)
<DktrKranz> unluckily, I needed them for some tests, so I guess I have to wait
<devfil> persia: can you please take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crystalspace/+bug/242961 ? I need 2 sponsors for it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242961 in crystalspace "Please update crystalspace to 1.2.1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<persia> devfil: I really know nothing about crystalspace, except that it's a mess.  Anyway, why do you need two sponsors?
<devfil> persia: it is a new package
<DktrKranz> NEW? mmh
<devfil> persia: a new huge work as wxwidgets2.8
<devfil> not new package, new version, sorry
<DktrKranz> probably it deserves four eyes to look at it, but it's not NEW :)
<rzr> there are a few RC  in crystal space affecting debian's release
<devfil> rzr: this is why I upgraded it to the latest stable version
<rzr> good job
<devfil> rzr: I also asked Debian maintainer to let me work at it (NMU), but I didn't receive any reply for now
<rzr> i know him personnaly
<rzr> he's offline now
<rzr> can you NMU it ?
<devfil> rzr: yes
<bliZZardz> what is NMU?
<devfil> bliZZardz: Non Maintainer Upload in Debian
<geser> Non-Maintainer Upload (Debian)
<rzr> only DD can NMU packages right?
<bliZZardz> and does that mean that people who do not maintain it, contribute a patch/feature?
<devfil> rzr: I don't know, if I do it, probably, Debian maintainer should sponsor it
<DktrKranz> rzr, DD can upload packages, but everyone can propose a NMU if there's RC or release-goal bugs
<rzr> devfil:  well I would attach a debdiff to the bug first
<bliZZardz> i was exploring Dbus yday, i need some mentor to help me out understand it better. Would this be the right forum?
<persia> rzr: A debdiff of a new upstream?  Isn't that hard to read (and might it be impossible to generate given binary changes in the upstream tarball)?
<persia> bliZZardz: For some very limited types of questions, yes.  For deeper questions, probably not.
<bliZZardz> persia : and that would be?
<bliZZardz> persia: you :) ?
<persia> Not I, no :)
<devfil> rzr: why Debian maintainer of crystalspace is offline?
<rzr> he probally has a life :)
<DktrKranz> not so bad, after all
<sistpoty> bah, rl is overrated *g+
<DktrKranz> bliZZardz_,  I guess the most qualified person is pitti, but he's on holidays at the moment and he's a very busy developer
<bliZZardz_> DktrKranz : presently i am doing some triaging, but i would like to get into Dev - hence am looking out for some mentors. I am comfy with Python.
<DktrKranz> whoa! I've just become a DM! \o/
<persia> DktrKranz: Congratulations!
<DktrKranz> persia, thanks
<bliZZardz> DM? (deb mentor?)
<DktrKranz> bliZZardz, well... if you're comfortable with dbus (or utopia-related stuff), pitti has some mentoring slots available
<bliZZardz> DktrKranz: just started with DBus..need some initial pointers
<DktrKranz> so I guess triaging bugs should be good at the moment
<DktrKranz> personally, I haven't any documentation available
<bliZZardz> DktrKranz: what abt projects(in python) that have mentoring slots available?
<DktrKranz> bliZZardz, for python related bugs, you may want to look at pythonistas bugs
<bliZZardz> DktrKranz : yes - am there.
<DktrKranz> cool :)
<bliZZardz> just getting a feel of the bugs ; looks like most of them need complete module knowledge
<DktrKranz> I'm sure there are some entry-level bugs
<DktrKranz> eventually, you can look at bugs marked as bitesize
<\sh> we made it ! http://leonov.tv/content/leonov-launchpad-desktop-client-first-coming
<persia> \sh: Congratulations.  Nice job.
<\sh> persia: thx :)
 * \sh is sweating like hell
<devfil> \sh: great job!
<persia> \sh: The bugs will come.  Have no fear :)
<bliZZardz> persia : LOL ")
<\sh> persia: seele was reviewing our work already...so I have a lot of them already :) and no, I don't fear any bugs :)
<sistpoty> \sh: apt-cache showsrc leonov doesn't yield a result... please fix :P
<persia> sistpoty: Please file a needs-packaging bug to request new software :p
<DktrKranz> ACK from me, please upload to NEW queue :D
<\sh> sistpoty: lol
 * sistpoty is now off again, enjoying the weekend... cya
<tacone> \sh: congratulations :) when will we be able to download bug informations for offline usage? (ok ok.. jocking)
<\sh> tacone: please file a wishlist report (seriously) :)
<\sh> tacone: I thought about that already, tbh
<tacone> \sh: I feared you would have asked that.
<tacone> ehehe
<tacone> \sh: seems I can't mark it as wishlist myself https://bugs.launchpad.net/leonov/+bug/243960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 243960 in leonov "Please store bug information for offline usage" [Undecided,New]
<\sh> tacone: done :)
<tacone> \sh: nice
<\sh> ah da nixternal
<\sh> phew...
<nixternal> yay power
<persia> nixternal: You're one of those kubuntu folk right?  Are you guys chasing NBS yet?  There seems to be a few packages listed...
<\sh> nixternal: dude, you are also mentioned in our announcement :)
<nixternal> what announcement?
<\sh> nixternal: check p.u.c
<nixternal> persia: dunno, ask Riddell...I have been working to much lately, so unfortunately I haven't been that close to what is going on
<nixternal> hehe, \sh...that has come along quick man...I liked reading the posts seeing how much it changed almost daily
<nixternal> good job!
<geser> \sh: p.u.c is ambiguous: people.u.c, packages.u.c, planet.u.c :)
<\sh> nixternal: that's only the beginning of something really bug^Wbig
<wgrant> popcon as well!
<wgrant> I wonder if any other letter is as ambiguous.
<nixternal> geser: ya, I did packages.ubuntu.com at first :P
<\sh> damn...b.u.c is missing...beer.ubuntu.com ;)
<nixternal> then I went, OH! Planet!
<\sh> packages is pkg.u.c. ;)
<Riddell> persia: NBS?
<geser> siretart: Hi, as you seem to care about ffmpeg-free: should "ffmpeg-config --libs avformat" result in the same output as "pkg-config --libs libavformat"?
<geser> I ask because I stumbled about a package which FTBFS (moc) because ffmpeg-config still lists "-la52"
<persia> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<persia> Looks like either there's a lot of changes expected, or lots of rebuilds to process.
<Riddell> changes are expected, since we moved to KDE 4
<persia> Riddell: OK.  I won't poke them then.  Thanks.
<siretart> geser: ffmpeg-config will go away in the next upload. please make the package use pkg-config instead
<geser> siretart: I've done that. I just wondered if the output of ffmpeg-config should match the output of pkg-config as long as ffmpeg-config still exists.
<siretart> geser: it probably should. that's one of the reasons why we want to get rid of ffmpeg-config
<persia> Does anyone have a good ddeb recovery hook for sbuild?  I'm generating ddebs, but throwing them away, which doesn't seem ideal.
<devfil_> persia: wow, a lot of upload today
<persia> devfil_: Trying to clean up some of the outstanding transitions for universe.
<devfil_> persia: good job
<AnAnt> Hello
<devfil_> hi AnAnt
<persia> Bah.  Uploaded things out of order again :(  At least the retry button works.
<AnAnt> persia: that brainstorm discussion is dead ?
<devfil_> persia: nobody is perfect
<persia> AnAnt: I think so.
<AnAnt> persia: ok, I know I'm asking for a big thing, I mean about glibc
<persia> -ECONTEXT
<AnAnt> huh ?
<AnAnt> what's that ?
<persia> Context error, meaning I have no idea about what you are writing
<AnAnt> persia: the suggestion I mentioned on brainstorm post
<laga> persia: i prefer this: http://heresabunnywithapancakeonitshead.com/
<AnAnt> is packages.ubuntu.com working ?
<persia> AnAnt: Oh, right.  Alternate calendars.  I have no idea how that might work, but think it deserves it's own idea on brainstorm, rather than getting mixed in with that one.
<AnAnt> is there a problem with packages.ubuntu.com  ?
<i4x> hi everyone!
<i4x> I want to use a .deb package to install some files, but I'm not sure where to put them. I'm using the openweakhardy/PackagingA tutorial and the only problem I have is to install that files!
<i4x> where do I put them? in ed-0.9/debian/ folder??
<i4x> I created 'ed-0.9/debian/tmp/mp/' and 'ed-0.9/debian/tmp/database/' folders. made the 'debuild -us -uc' and it returned no errors!
<persia> i4x: What kind of files?
<i4x> but when installing, the postinst can't find the folders and ....
<i4x> persia: I need to install: /tmp/database/mp.sql  and /tmp/mp/runner (script)
<bobbo> AnAnt: yeah package.ubuntu.com is down for me too
<bobbo> s/package/packages
<nhandler> I have a quick question. The package I am working on comes with .desktop files (not the debian directory). The package does not have a patch system in place. Should I add a patch system to the package in order to modify the .desktop files? If so, which type of patch system should I use? Or should I just modify the .desktop files in the debdiff?
<persia> i4x: You really don't want to install anything to /tmp.  Why not install the sql into /usr/share/$(package)/$(package).sql, and embed the script in the postinst?
<geser> nhandler: I'd only add a patch system for big changes
<nhandler> geser, So for this instance, it would be better to modify something outside of the /debian directory in the debdiff than to add a patch system?
<persia> nhandler: I'd recommend checking other packages by the same maintainer, and possibly introducing a patch system that matches their style.
<geser> nhandler: especially if the package has already some changes (from Debian) adding a patch system isn't wise (for small changes) as you end with some changes as patches (Ubuntu) and some changes applied directly (Debian)
 * persia very strongly agrees with geser about packages with changes in diff.gz
<i4x> persia: the script will be installed to init.d to run at startup, and the database will only be used once by postinst that installs the database and then removes it.
<geser> nhandler: depending how much you want to change, I wouldn't add a patch system just to change a few lines in a .desktop file
<persia> i4x: For the init script, investigate dh_installinit.  For the sql, I still think it belongs in  /usr/share/$(package)/$(package).sql for later reference by the user.
<nhandler> geser, It looks like I'll just be adding Icon lines to a few .desktop files that are in the package. I might also be making a few minor changes to the .desktop files to make them validate.
<persia> geser: I've had more success getting patches into Debian when I follow the maintainer's style, which is why I recommend that research.
<i4x> persia: I know there are some .ex files as init.d.ex .. but I don't understand so much to use them.  and, are you saying to install the sql to /usr/share/ï»¿$(package)/$(package).sql ? if so, how?
<persia> i4x: Put it in debian/ then add it to your $(package).install file.
<i4x> persia: hm, ok.. I'll search for the *.install file..
<persia> i4x: read the manual pages for dh_install and dh_installinit
<nhandler> persia and geser: It looks like the Debian maintainer only has 7 packages. I'll look at them and see if I can find a preferred patch system. If I can't, I think I'll just include the changes in the debdiff
<i4x> persia: thx, I'll do that! (y)
<nhandler> persia, I just checked all 7 of the Maintainer's packages. None of them use a patch system. In this case, do you agree that I should just include the changes to the files that are outside of the debian directory in the debdiff?
<persia> nhandler: Very much so.
<nhandler> geser and persia: Thank you for your help. I'll go and make the changes now.
<porthose> warp10: ping
<alex-weej> i'm looking to build the debian package for nautilus-open-terminal on Hardy
<alex-weej> the version for Debian Experimental requires a newer version of libpango (i guess because it was just built against it)
<alex-weej> how do i get the source from DebExp?
<ScottK-laptop> If it's in experimental, it's probably there for a good reason.
<alex-weej> there's nothing much experimental about nautilus-open-terminal
<alex-weej> it gets about 3 commits a year
<ScottK-laptop> One was is to go to packages.qa.debian.org, find the package package page, and then dget -x the .dsc.
<alex-weej> thanks, i see the DSCs
<ScottK-laptop> It might be building against the new libpango is the only reason it's there.
<alex-weej> ScottK-laptop: that got me a .orig.tar.gz and a .diff.gz
<ScottK-laptop> Did you use -x?
<alex-weej> (sorry, i'm used to apt-get source wiping my bottom for me)
<alex-weej> yes
<ScottK-laptop> It should have unpacked the source too then.
<ScottK-laptop> If it didn't, you can dpkg-source -x filename.dsc to unpack it.
<alex-weej> it bombed here" dscverify: can't find any Debian keyrings
<ScottK-laptop> So it couldn't verify the signature.
<ScottK-laptop> IIRC, the package with the Debian Keyring in it is deceptively called debian-keyring.
<ScottK-laptop> I've got a little X windows problem here, so I'll be back (hopefully) in a little bit.
<ScottK-laptop> Hopefully that will be better.
<alex-weej> OK, nautilus-open-terminal package in Debian Experimental builds fine on Hardy
<alex-weej> and works as expected
<alex-weej> what do i need to do to get it pushed into Hardy Universe?
<ScottK-laptop> It needs to get into Intrepid.
<alex-weej> can it then go via hardy-backports->hardy-updates?
<ScottK-laptop> Not usally.
<ScottK-laptop> What bug are you fixing to get it updated?
<alex-weej> the on-desktop behaviour drops you in $HOME previously
<ScottK-laptop> Is there a bug?
<alex-weej> it was fixed, with the old behaviour being in a gconf option
<alex-weej> a long time ago
<alex-weej> and 0.9 was released on 28 February 2008, so the debian packages have just been lagging
<ScottK-laptop> Intrepid already has 0.9
<alex-weej> oh... hmm... i probably should have just used that
<alex-weej> haha, oh well
<alex-weej> yay, now to just drop the habit of typing cd ~/Desktop every time i open a terminal
<ScottK-laptop> alex-weej: I don't think this qualifies for -updates.  It's not a regression, data loss, or crash issue.
<ScottK-laptop> You could get the new version in -backports.
<alex-weej> ok, is it a lot of effort?
<ScottK-laptop> No.
<alex-weej> what do i do?
<ScottK-laptop> You've already done virtually all the work (testing).
<ScottK-laptop> !backports | alex-weej
<ubottu> alex-weej: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<ScottK-laptop> You file a bug against the hardy-backports project as described above.
<alex-weej> got it, thanks
<ScottK-laptop> alex-weej: Ping me when it's done and I'll approve it.
<alex-weej> well... i haven't really tested it properly... :S
<alex-weej> i mean, it works
<alex-weej> maybe i should use it for a bit first
<ScottK-laptop> For backports, the standard is "Builds, installs, runs" - You pass that.
<ScottK-laptop> More testing is welcome, but you've done the minimum.
<ScottK-laptop> Note that backports is not enabled by default for what are generally considered good reasons ...
<ScottK-laptop> Actually we have very few problems.
<alex-weej> yeah of course
<alex-weej> ok just a mo
<alex-weej> ScottK: you beat me to the original bug :P
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<alex-weej> i will link it in the backport request
<alex-weej> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports/+bug/244017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 244017 in hardy-backports "Backport nautilus-open-terminal 0.9 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Undecided,New]
<ScottK-laptop> alex-weej: Mark it confirmed to show you've tested it.
<alex-weej> done
<ScottK-laptop> alex-weej: Approved and passed to the archive-admins.  It should get backported the next time the process backports.
<alex-weej> cheers
<i4x> ppl, I'm trying to understand how to use 'dh_install', but I'm confused.. anyone knows how to use it and gives me an example? I just need to understand how the package recognizes the folders/files to install and moves them!
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: Did you read man dh_intall?
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: yes, I did!
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: Did you see the bit about "debian/package.install"?
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: I've no '($package).install' file..
<ScottK-laptop> Make one that lists the files you want installed.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: do I have to modify anything in rules?
<i4x> ok, but where do I create it? debian/ ?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<i4x> and what should I put there?
<ScottK-laptop> A list of the files to install.
<i4x> '/folder/to/create/file' ?? only?
<i4x> and will the 'package.install' be recognized automatic while debuilding? or should I run 'dh_install' something?
<ScottK-laptop> Is your debian/rules cdbs or debhelper?
<ScottK-laptop> If it's CDBS, it's automatic magic.  If it's debhelper, dh_install needs to be called, but it's in the standard template.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: "# Sample debian/rules that uses debhelper."
<i4x> 'standard template'?
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: what do you mean with ï»¿'standard template'?
<ScottK-laptop> When you run dh_make to start making a debhelper based package, it makes a standard rules file.  That's what I mean.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: "ï»¿dh_install needs to be called, but it's in the standard template." it means that the rules (standard template) calls 'dh_install' ?
<i4x> if so, my problem is resolved. if not, how when and how do I call dh_install?
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: Please pastebin your debian/rules.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop:  http://pastebin.com/d400d5b5d
<ScottK-laptop> Looking
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: Look at line 74.  It's commeted out.  Remove the "#" and you should be good.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: ok, I'll do that! another 2 questions: since the package has the name 'ed-0.9', should I create 'debian/ed-0.9.install' ? and to use 'dh_installinit' is the same thing as 'dh_install', isn't it?
<ScottK-laptop> No and No.
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: so, what name I call the 'package.install' file?
<ScottK-laptop> ed.install
<ScottK-laptop> -0.9 is the version.
<ScottK-laptop> jdong: Just because it's summer vacation for you doesn't mean you're off duty on backports.
 * ScottK-laptop just ack'ed ~20 for Hardy.
<nxvl> siretart: around?
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: I'm having this problem: "cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//tmp/mp/runner': No such file or directory" after 'dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp'
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: Try it without the /tmp
<i4x> * ï»¿"cp: cannot stat `debian//tmp/mp/runner': No such file or directory"
<ScottK-laptop> I suspect you also need $(curdir)/debian (that's from memory so the syntax may not be perfect.
<i4x> the problem is in the both '/' in the middle!
<i4x> 'rules' has 'dh_install --sourcedir=debian'
<i4x> and the 'ed.install' has 'tmp/mp/runner' .
<i4x> but it puts 2 '/' in the middle!
<i4x> but ScottK-laptop, do you know why it puts the // between 'debian' and 'tmp/mp/runner' ?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: is there any doc somewhere on how to test you .debs?
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: No, but I don't think it matters.
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Context please?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i still have an rpath issue with augeas, but i don't know how to test the .debs to see if they still have it
<ScottK-laptop> How do you know you still have it?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: because siretart say i still have it (after reviewing it)
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.
<ScottK-laptop> Does lintian run against the .deb complain about it?
<nxvl> and i don'y want to try to fix the problem, upload it, and wait for someone to tell me it's already fixed or not
<nxvl> i have run it
<nxvl> but nothing shows up
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Have you seen http://wiki.debian.org/RpathIssue
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: yep
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: What happens when you grep aclocal.m4, configure.in or configure.ac for hardcode_into_libs
<i4x> ScottK-laptop: it makes the 'cp' return: ï»¿ï»¿"cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//tmp/mp/runner': No such file or directory". So I think that the problem is there!
<i4x> * "cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp//mp/runner': No such file or directory"
<ScottK-laptop> i4x: At this point I usually login to my pbuilder chroot, use debuild to build the package and then see what dirs/files are present when it dies.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: a lot of "yes" show up
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Then based on that wiki page, I'd say that's how you know.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: yes, but the problem is: should i use a patch system? or should i run sed on the debian/rules (this hasn't worked early)
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: I'm not sure.  I'd tend to go with patch system.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: but patch is before configure
<warp10> porthose: pong
<porthose> warp10: can I send you a pm :)
<warp10> porthose: for sure! BTW, I'm just reading your mail :)
<porthose> cool that's what it's about
<porthose> warp10:  email me with what you decide please, have to get ready for work (sigh)
<warp10> porthose: no problem at all about a new mentee for me. BTW, once big Cesare expressed some concerns about people mentoring people speaking the same mother-tongue
<norsetto> warp10: I'm not big, I'm just weight-challenged
<warp10> norsetto: heh... speaking about the devil...
<norsetto> warp10: yes, its part of the guidelines we discussed, try to avoid mentor-mentee of the same mother-tongue
<porthose> norsetto: np have another I can send warp10 after I do the work  thing
<porthose> warp10: would that be Ok
<warp10> norsetto: I definitely agree. BTW, no problem for me on taking a new mentee (also because David is a little busy at now)
<warp10> porthose: sounds good!
<norsetto> porthose: sure, how are things going? having fun :-) ?
<porthose> norsetto: getting organized and trying to make my first match
<porthose> norsetto:  but alas duty (work) calls,  bye
<norsetto> porthose: bye
<warp10> bye porthose
<norsetto> warp10: say the truth, you are also looking forward to working on Sunday, or Christmas Eve
<warp10> norsetto: I like to work on Sunday, but not on Christmas Eve, indeed!
<bobbo> warp10: hey Andrea!
<warp10> Ciao bobbo! How do you do?
<bobbo> warp10: un-banned from the computer :D
<bobbo> unfortunately im on holiday for a week tomorrow, then have a job all summer, but at least i can check my emails
<warp10> bobbo: unbanned? great! Intrepid really needs your help to be a rocking distro!
<bobbo> warp10: hehe, 30 uploads so far in Intrepid, itll be rocking already :P
 * norsetto didn't even know there was a way to see how many uploads one did
<warp10> bobbo: 30, really? sounds great!
<bobbo> norsetto: i wrote my own PHP+MySQL app to log my uploads, i add the details into the db then it shows a load of statistics etc about it
<bobbo> warp10: hehe, i think its around 28 at the moment, but i have some to add in when my server gets back up
<warp10> norsetto: Dktrkranz wrote a small python script to get the ranking
 * warp10 runs the script
<norsetto> bobbo, warp10: interesting, how do these scripts work? bobbo one I guess is local, but the dktrkranz one I guess is operating on the LP db?
<bobbo> norsetto: yeah mine is local, Dktrkranzes sounds interesting
<warp10> norsetto: nope, it gets data from <distro>changes@ mailing list
<norsetto> warp10: ah, I didn't know the uploader was in those emails
<bobbo> warp10: have you got a link to that script?
<warp10> norsetto, bobbo: http://paste.beeseek.org/36
<bobbo> warp10: thanks :D
<warp10> bobbo: ;)
<norsetto> warp10: ah, ok, thats not the uploader then
<warp10> norsetto: nope, it's just the "changed by" field.
<warp10> bobbo: you are 23rd in the list, with 26 packages
<bobbo> 26 packages, almost 30 (ish) :P
<norsetto> warp10: I guess one could also see the uploader by checking the gpg key though
<bobbo> 1	Jonathan Riddell (266 packages) o.0
<warp10> norsetto: well, I would like to modify that script using gpg keys to make a sponsors ranking, indeed
<warp10> norsetto: it shouldn't be that difficult
<norsetto> warp10: the difficult bit would be to collect all the gpg keys
<warp10> norsetto: indeed. That would probably require some work with Launchpad
 * norsetto wonders who root was
<warp10> norsetto: the real mysterious one is 141	??????? (1 packages)
<norsetto> warp10: also, i was surprised to see that siretart had only 1 upload, until I saw that he is uploading with his real name too :-)
<warp10> :D
<i4x> norsetto: are you there?
<norsetto> i4x: yes sir
<i4x> norsetto: already there? I'm having problems building a package.. because it puts 2 '/' between 'debian' and 'tmp/mp/database.sql', returning error.
<i4x> *still there?
<norsetto> i4x: that shouldn't be a problem; anyhow, check dir names in debian/rules (and perhaps also debian/*.install)
<i4x> I checked!
<i4x> norsetto: debian/rules has '	dh_install --sourcedir=$(CURDIR)/debian'  and debian/ed.install has 'tmp/mp/database.sql'
<i4x> I can't understand why appears '//' between  'debian' and 'tmp/...'
<i4x> norsetto:
<i4x> dh_install --sourcedir=/home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian
<i4x> cp: cannot stat `/home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian//tmp/mp/temporario': No such file or directory
<i4x> any idea?
<norsetto> i4x: the path seem wrong, you should use relative paths only unless you want things to fails in chroot, pbuilder, etc.
<warp10> Any REVU admin around?
<jpds> warp10: key sync?
<geser> i4x: and that path is really there?
<warp10> jpds: no, REVU still sees me as a contributor, I would like to fix that
<jpds> warp10: One moment please.
<i4x> norsetto and geser: this is the path: 'ï»¿/home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian/tmp/mp/'
<i4x> but I just need one '/', not 2.
<jpds> warp10: "Altering warp10@ubuntu.com to level reviewer"-
<geser> i4x: what gives "ls -l /home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian//tmp/mp" ?
<warp10> jpds: mmm... my login is warp10@libero.it, but if you can change it to warp10@ubuntu.com I would prefer it. If I try to login with @ubuntu.com, it says "There is no REVU account for warp10@ubuntu.com, yet."
<i4x> geser: that returns: ls: cannot access /home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian//tmp/mp: No such file or directory
<jpds> warp10: You'll have to upload a package with that email.
<jpds> warp10: Unless you'd prefer to use the old login.
<warp10> jpds: I am seen as a contributor with the old login. BTW, I should upload a package within days, that should fix everything
<jpds> warp10: OK, ping me when you've uploaded with the new email and I'll bump the level.
 * jpds goes to bed. Night all.
<nxvl> why do we install recommends by default
<nxvl> is a mess
<nxvl> :S
<geser> i4x: the extra / should hurt, does "ls -l /home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/ed-0.9/debian//tmp" work?
<warp10> jpds: great. Thank you so much!
<norsetto> i4x: the problem is surely not the doubl /
<geser> nxvl: :) just file bugs about wrong recommends
<i4x> norsetto and geser: it seems that 'debuild' removes the folder debian/tmp !!
<i4x> and then, when needed, it can't find it!
<geser> yes, the clean target gets called before build
<i4x> geser: what should I do?
<i4x> :S
<nxvl> geser: all?
<nxvl> :D
<geser> nxvl: if all are wrong then yes
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> they ALL are wrong
<nxvl> :P
<geser> i4x: can you pastebin your debian/rules?
<geser> nxvl: now you have a good reason to fix it now :)
<i4x> sure!
<i4x> geser: ..a moment, please!
<i4x> geser: http://pastebin.com/d312c383d
<nxvl> geser: i mean, the recommends are not strictly necesary and they affect the choose option
<nxvl> it's just wrong
<i4x> geser: should I move 'dh_install --sourcedir=$(CURDIR)/debian' before 'dh_clean' ?
<geser> no, your rules file looks ok
<i4x> geser: do you have any idea?
<geser> not yet
<albert23> i4x: do you have a file debian/compat? If so, which value is in it?
<i4x> albert23: 5
<geser> i4x: can you make the whole source package available? so I can look at it
<i4x> iupiiiiiii!!
<i4x> it seems it worked!!
<i4x> geser and albert23: I changed debian/rules with 'dh_install --sourcedir=/home/i4/Desktop/final/package2'
<i4x> and moved the folder 'tmp' from debian/ to ï»¿/home/i4/Desktop/final/package2/
<i4x> now the tmp is available to dh_install !
<geser> how did you create the files in debian/tmp before?
<geser> i4x: I guess you don't need the --sourcedir anymore which has also the advantage that other people can build the package too
<i4x> geser: before, I moved the files to debian/tmp..
<geser> i4x: which is bad as dh_clean removes the debian/tmp dir as that's where usually make install temporarily installs the build source and dh_install moves the files from there to the specified locations
<i4x> and this is only a practice exercise. I'm making a mini-project to Sistem Programming (school).. but as I ever wanted to know how the packages are made, I decided to deliver de mini-project in one package! so I don't need to burn virtual-machines nor a big manual to the teacher evaluate! now, the teacher just installs the package!
<i4x> geser and albert23: thank you a lot for the help and time spent! See you someday.. I hope have some time to start building some decent packages! and learn how to fix some bugs! :D
<nxvl> siretart: around?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-22
<p3rror> hello
<p3rror>  i uploaded a package using dput
<p3rror> but it still invisible in the revu.ubuntuwire.com website
<p3rror> please can you tell me what happened ? maybe there are a delay
<lifeless> how long ago did you upload it?
<p3rror> euh... i did it at 13h00 GMT
<p3rror> and here is the contenent of my  dput.cf
<p3rror> [revu]
<p3rror> fqdn = revu.ubuntuwire.com
<p3rror> incoming = /incoming
<p3rror> login = anonymous
<p3rror> progress_indicator = 2
<p3rror> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<ajmitch> p3rror: and what package did you upload?
<p3rror> a python module named python-ipcalc
<ajmitch> try uploading a source-only package (built with debuild -S)
<ajmitch> revu won't accept binary uploads
<p3rror> done
<p3rror> Successfully uploaded packages.
<ajmitch> yeah, that's just dput reporting that the ftp part didn't break
<p3rror> great
<p3rror> well right now i can see my package is the new packages list
<ajmitch> looks like it's there, good
<p3rror> yes ajmitch
<p3rror> thanks for support
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys. On a merge I'm working on, during build process, It does this: a2x -f manpage debian/apgdiff.1.txt ad I get this: DEPRECATED: apgdiff.1.txt: line 21: old glossary list syntax
<RoAkSoAx> and this: a2x: xmllint not found: skipping validity checking
<RoAkSoAx> do you know what can be wrong with it, and/or a place where explains how can I resolve the DEPRECATED warning of the manpage?
<skorpius> hello room
<skorpius> can someone tell me any good video editor exept kdenlive and cinelerra
<Ampelbein> skorpius: this is not the right place to ask, you get better help in #ubuntu.
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ping
<vorian> RoAkSoAx: PONG
<vorian> :P
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, how's it going :) ?
<vorian> good
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, happy fathers day :) you are a dad right?
<vorian> how are you doing?
<vorian> yep, i have 5 chillens
<vorian> thanks :)
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, I'm doing well. Do you have little time to help me out with something?
<vorian> sure thing
<vorian> or i'll try, at least :)
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ok. I'm mering apgdiff, during build process i get this warning: DEPRECATED: apgdiff.1.txt: line 21: old glossary list syntax
<vorian> hmm
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, and this is because of ':-' in this file: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/201198/ after each option... so, I was wondering if removing ':-' is the right thing to do, since I've done that and now it does not shows that warning
<vorian> is apgdiff.1 in the debian directory?
<vorian> hrm
<vorian> odd
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, so having :- after each option is the right syntax?
<vorian> it would give you a warning otherwise
<vorian> on line 3, and 6 and 10 and 14 and 20
<vorian> etc...
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, (i'm not pasting the complete file) but yes, if I remove the :- from version it shows the warning on line 6 and so on
<vorian> ah, ok
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, so, what I'm actually saying is if i need to delete that :- or add something else instead so that that warning is not showed
<vorian> it would seem appropriate to drop it, but I'm not entirely sure
<vorian> it should be
<vorian> -- option x
<vorian> so, yeah no colon/hyphen
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ok because when i drop the :-, the manpage (after built) it shows like: --version displays apgdiff version
<RoAkSoAx> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/201199/
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, do you know where can I find an explanation on the syntax used on a plain text manpage?? I guess they should explain that there...
<masterkernel> Hello, I am in need of a reviewer for my package, kernelcheck. It is a GUI tool that can automatically (custom) build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with any patches the user wants.
<masterkernel> Link: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<vorian> RoAkSoAx: sorry
<vorian> got distracted for a moment
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, np :)
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, so anyways... what do you think I should do, Or should I just leave it as it is?
<vorian> i would leave it
<vorian> untouched
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ok Will do then. Now I have a second question, during build process it also shows me this : a2x: xmllint not found: skipping validity checking.
<RoAkSoAx> it does not affect the build process, but adding libxml2-utils to Build-Depends will make that warning go away... so... since it actually does not affect the build process, should I add that package to Build-Depends (or Build-Depends-Indep), or where should it go?
<vorian> /usr/bin/xmllint
<vorian> does it build-dep on libxml2-dev
<vorian> ?
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, Build-Depends-Indep: docbook-xml, docbook-xsl, xsltproc, asciidoc   Build-Depends: ant, debhelper (>> 7), quilt, default-jdk
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, or should it go under Recommends?
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, never mind what I just said under Recommends since it's only needed during the Build Process
<vorian> i would think it would need to be a build dep based on the verbage you used
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, I have tested it under Build-Depend-Indep and the warning is no longer showed
<vorian> good
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, so that would be the actual fix then. Every time I get a problem like that I should check for a package that makes warnings like that go away and just add them t Build-Depends, even though if they are not actually needed for the building process?
<vorian> yes - just be careful about where the packages come from
<vorian> as far as main/universe/multiverse
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, ok cool thanks. That's it. :) Thanks for your help
<vorian> no problemo
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, now it shows me: a2x: failed: xmllint --nonet --noout --valid "debian/apgdiff.1.xml" and I'm guessing it is because of the ":-" in the .txt file
<vorian> possibly
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, yes I have just tested it and it's because of the ':-'
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, do you know where can I find a howto or anything that show's me how should the syntax be for a manpage in a .txt file?
<vorian> i don't know a specific place - I usually google for examples
 * vorian hates manpages
 * RoAkSoAx is starting to hate them :)
<RoAkSoAx> vorian, well I've been searching for it but have not find anything that would help me out... well I'll keep searching I guess
<vorian> mostly because they seem to be the most time-consuming part
<vorian> http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Man-Page.html
<vorian> that's for groff
 * vorian must depart
<vorian> see ya later RoAkSoAx
<RoAkSoAx> see ya vorian take care :)
<RoAkSoAx> thnks for the help
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> good morning
<PaulOwen> ahoy dhobach
<PaulOwen> even dhoLbach
<dholbach> hi PaulOwen
<PaulOwen> so here it's mighty happening i guess? first time on this
<nellery> hey dholbach!
 * PaulOwen jumps and waves
<dholbach> hiya nellery
<dholbach> PaulOwen: if you're interested in ubuntu development and everything, head to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted :)
<PaulOwen> im just about to notice that the acpi thing im dling has kdelibs in it, not too sensible when im not on kubuntu i suppose?
<PaulOwen> aaah is this pure developers channel? im totally wrong here if so :)
 * PaulOwen woot it's rushing by...
<ak4d7>  hi everyone i need help recovering a ubuntu installation after crashing it with a compiz configuration now it won't login or start
<PaulOwen> hi ak4d7, medic is on his way
<ak4d7> medic?
<PaulOwen> okay, ive just read this is masters of the universe, not mark of the unicorn or whatever
<PaulOwen> yeah, help, i guess, but maybe only for developers
<ak4d7> i have tried uninstalling gnome and installing it again
<ak4d7> im no developer but i need help
<PaulOwen> i guess i'll type /list and see if theres a newbie channel for us
<siretart> PaulOwen: try #ubuntu
<PaulOwen> that list thing is extra fun on isdn
<PaulOwen> ah thanks siretart :)
<PaulOwen> i wonder how they always come up with this channel names
<ajmitch> good evening
<directhex> hiya ajmitch
<PaulOwen> good night and good luck and thanks for scripting this totally astonishing application, bugfix, doomsday device right now
<PaulOwen> peace :D
<ajmitch> that was a bit random
<directhex> ajmitch, did you see the 3-page hit piece against me on itwire? yays! ^_^
<ajmitch> couldn't be bothered reading past about halfway down page 1
<directhex> but sam is a journalist! it says so on the internet!
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> so when does his writing turn into something coherent?
<ajmitch> but I'm impressed that you're getting so much attention :)
<directhex> try applying vodka
<ajmitch> I only have beer :(
<directhex> yeah, well, shows what happens if you put your head above the parapet Â¬_Â¬
<ajmitch> oh well, someone has to do it
<directhex> i can't afford to blog again until july, sadly
<ajmitch> bandwidth costs for getting hit so often?
<directhex> ajmitch, precisely
<ajmitch> what, you haven't got the cheque from MS for your advocacy yet? ;)
<directhex> i'll ask them tomorrow
<ajmitch> ah, good plan
<directhex> Summary for June 2009
<directhex> Total bandwidth used 	6704 MB
<directhex> Total allowed 	3600 MB
<slytherin> directhex: where is the link?
<ajmitch> and I wonder why I don't have a blog...
<directhex> slytherin, to what i wrote, or itwire's subsequent rambling?
<slytherin> directhex: ITWire's rambling
<\sh> directhex: you need more Bandwidth?
<StevenK> 3.6GB a month?
<StevenK> Geeez, my provider for my VPS allows 200GB
<\sh> I'm on a 2TB/month plan...
<ajmitch> StevenK: but is that based in a civilised country with regards to data caps?
<StevenK> ajmitch: The VPS is in the US.
<ajmitch> as I expected
<ajmitch> unlike trying to host a server in NZ, with a cap of 10 GB international traffic per month
<StevenK> Hah. Ouch.
<ajmitch> this is why we have predominantly NZ clients :)
<directhex> \sh, i need to have a serious think about what to do on the bandwidth front, certainly
<ajmitch> \sh has contacts...
<directhex> slytherin, http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25799/1231/
<\sh> directhex: apache2 + php wordpress
<\sh> +mysql + wordpress == no problem...no ssh account...if you can live with that...I can help you out :)
<directhex> \sh, thanks for the offer, but i'd rather pay for something with ssh access
<\sh> s/wordpress/{wordpress,drupal,s9y,django}/
<directhex> \sh, for now i'm simply ignoring my webhost in the hope that they ignore me.....
<directhex> i like wordpress. it's nice 'n' easy
<\sh> directhex: when I find the time...I'm going to upgrade my rootserver plan to a new machine with XEN possibility..so it's also possible to have ssh accounts...
<directhex> \sh, well, time is the eternal issue isn't it :)
<directhex> on a related note, i need to finish packing for hamburg
<\sh> directhex: right now, yes...this week I'm @home...and the upcoming 4 weeks I'm working in a datacenter in Frankfurt...my wife is already happy about that..
<StevenK> \sh: Happy smiley or happy sarcastic?
<Hobbsee> directhex: just get a linode.  problem solved ;)
<\sh> StevenK: I have a 8 weeks old little boy @home..do you think my better half smiles happy when I'm 4 weeks gone from home?
<StevenK> \sh: Hah, right.
 * directhex packs his UDS Crew t-shirt for the microsoft-sponsored event on wednesday
<StevenK> directhex: +10,000 for Linode
<directhex> StevenK, i was considering a VPS, certainly
<directhex> StevenK, wasn't really looking at linode as i really prefer uk-based hosting. but it's an option
<directhex> StevenK, problem is, i suck & have no idea about configuring apache to do all the gubbins i want :)
<Hobbsee> directhex: won't take you much to learn.  I managed
<StevenK> directhex: Apache is easy :-)
<StevenK> directhex: My rates are very reasonable if you want help :-)
<directhex> i'm sure i'm supposed to pipe up with "mod-mono!" or somesuch, but i really like wordpress.
<directhex> okay, all packed, i hope
<stefanlsd> BloGTK has a fix we need in Jaunty that prevents the app from working.  For it to work in Jaunty, if the user has it installed, we need to delete ~/.BloGTK/BloGTK.conf. Should we do this in the SRU? Or just let the user know they should do this?
<Laney> you can't touch the users home directory
<stefanlsd> Laney: ok. thanks
<gaspa> slytherin: hi!
 * Hobbsee is getting really bored with the persistent X deaths
<\sh> stefanlsd: another sane idea would be to let the app (bloGTK) do the migration of $HOME/.BloGTK/
<\sh> stefanlsd: but I think that's too much new feature for an SRU
<stefanlsd> \sh: yeah. thanks. I agree. To big a change for an SRU. I dont think the app is too widely used as is.
<\sh> hmm..gwibber is totally borked on jaunty...
<mok0> \sh: Huh? Gwibber works fine for me...
<\sh> mok0: gwibber just segfaulted here for me..
<mok0> \sh: yikes
<RainCT> TheMuso: this may interest you: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20263/
<kpirc> I need a reviewer for my 'cadabra' package on REVU (it's a symbolic computer algebra system with graphical front-end). Any takers?
<slytherin> kpirc: does it use java?
<mok0> ydrkkk... util.F:110: internal compiler error: in replace_reg, at reg-stack.c:701
<statik> hello world! i'm working on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6112 , and I'm not sure the right/best/proper way to drop some files from being included in the binary package. any hints?
<statik> dholbach: thanks a million for the review comments
<hyperair> statik: rm them manually, or use dh_install -X
<hyperair> man dh_install for more information
<statik> hyperair: if i rm them manually, thats directly touching the source and is frowned on, right?
 * statik reads dh_install man page
<hyperair> nonono
<hyperair> you rm them in debian/rules
<hyperair> after the dh_install call, you rm them from debian/<pkg>
<hyperair> for example
<statik> ok, thats making more sense
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> -X is a better approach for this
<hyperair> if you use dh7 style, it's trivial to add this to debian/rules.
<statik> so i just need to figure out which rules target to override then I think
<hyperair> yep
<hyperair> er you're using dh7 right?
<hyperair> just do override_dh_install
<hyperair> i mean create a rule by that name
<hyperair> then run dh_install -Xfoo -Xbar
<hyperair> inside that rule
<statik> looks like i'm currently using 6, but I could bump it to 7
<statik> hyperair: thanks!
<hyperair> look into man dh
<DktrKranz> statik: I've commented two packages of yours, while at it you can consider adopting them.
<DktrKranz> I think they apply for simplesetting too
<hyperair> adopting? O_o
<DktrKranz> hyperair: adopting changes :)
<statik> DktrKranz, thanks for the feedbacks, I'll be working on them today. Yes, i've read the review comments for all 4 packages I have in revu right now, and will definitely be applying the same advice/fixes to all of them
<hyperair> ah. heheh
<statik> DktrKranz, I don't have a deep knowledge of the difference between python-support and python-central, any reason that I shouldn't just switch as you suggested?
<dholbach> statik: no worries
 * statik reads http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonFAQ
<hyperair> i find pycentral just plain confusing
<DktrKranz> statik: there's no reason to switch if you are familiar with pycentral. both do the same job, and you can skip their logic, pysupport is friendlier to use and more robust during upgrades
<slytherin> does anyone have any idea what all cards are expected to have kernel mode setting enabled drivers in karmic?
<DktrKranz> anyway, I wrote it's up to you. it's not strictly required. keep in mind Debian would like to merge them to have a central point, though
<slytherin> NCommander: ping
<NCommander> slytherin, pong
<slytherin> NCommander: Do you think powerpc arch should also switch to grub2. Is it feasible?
<NCommander> Feasible, es, I dunno if its wise
<slytherin> NCommander: what doubts do you have? From functionality point or installation point?
<NCommander> I don't know enough abotu GRUB2 to say either way
<slytherin> hmm
<geser> does someone now a package (build-)depending on a lib*-gcj package? or how to resolve "dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: couldn't find library /usr/lib/gcj/itext-2.1.5.jar.so needed by debian/pdftk/usr/bin/pdftk (its RPATH is '')"?
<geser> that file is certainly there
<slytherin> geser: why is that package build depending on -gcj package?
<geser> slytherin: it's for bug 384515
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 384515 in pdftk "pdftk - Files - Sun confidential code" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/384515
<geser> the patch from Fedora uses the gcj build version of libitext-java
<geser> shouldn't it link against libitext-java-gcj at all? pdftk is written in C++ but also uses Java
<masterkernel> Hello, I am looking for a reviewer for my package, kernelcheck - an automated tool that can (custom) build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with any user patches.
<masterkernel> Link: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<slytherin> geser: let me take a look at the patch
<hannesw> hi there... I'm trying to build openjdk-6 with pbuilder and get this:
<hannesw> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<hannesw>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libpulse-dev (>= 0.9.12) but it is not installable
<hannesw>                                  Depends: pulseaudio (>= 0.9.12) but it is not installable
<hannesw> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
<hannesw> Remove the following packages:
<hannesw> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<hannesw> any idea?
<geser> slytherin: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=331737 and see also https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=471811#c11 for some additional steps needed during the build
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 471811 in itext "RfE: Need CNI sub package to resurrect pdftk" [Medium,Closed: rawhide]
<kpirc> slytherin: no, it's C++
<slytherin> hannesw: probably your pbuilder chroot is not updated
<hannesw> thanks for the hint, slytherin
<geser> hannesw: login into your pbuilder and see why the mentioned packages can't be installed
<slytherin> geser: can this be a simple change of modifying classpath or jni path during build?
<hannesw> ok, i think it was the old chroot - didn't update it from jaunty.
<hannesw> thanks, guys
<geser> slytherin: gcj links it fines, the executable seem also to work, but building the deb fails as dh_shlibdeps can't resolve the library
<slytherin> oh, I understood the problem wrong then.
<geser> slytherin: the ldd output for the build executable http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/201521/
<geser> therefore I tried to find an other package using a -gcj package so I could see how it's done there
<slytherin> geser: see if there is any reverse build dep of libjogl-jni
<geser> none
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> doko: Hi, do you know of a package build-depending on a lib*-gcj package? I'm trying get pdftk link against libitext-java-gcj which works fine (if I'm doing it correctly) but building the deb fails as dh_shlibdeps can't resolve the linked itext-2.1.5.jar.so file
<slytherin> geser: how about libaccess-bridge-java-jni or libgtk-jni
<geser> slytherin: reverse-build-depends doesn't find anything for them
<ximion> Hello!
<ximion> I updated the Smile package at REVU, the Smile author has included the GPLv2 now in /copying . But REVU doesn't find the license. Is there a link or something missing to make REVU find the license? (Packege: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/smile )
<Laney> it probably wants to be COPYING
<Laney> but it doesnt matter so much
<ximion> okay
 * hyperair wonders if anybody uses thunderbird 3.0 with enigmail
<ivoks> superm1: are you here?
<superm1> ivoks, yeah what's up?
<ivoks> superm1: hi; i've noticed /etc/modprobe.d/dmks.conf
<ivoks> superm1: i'm preparing one package to use dkms and i need some options for modprobe
<ivoks> superm1: should i add options to dkms.conf?
<superm1> ivoks, specify them in the dkms.conf for the package and dkms adds them to the modprobe for you
<ivoks> oh, didn't know about that
<superm1> although a little poorly named for nowadays, it's the MODULES_CONF directive
<ivoks> superm1: thanks!
<superm1> np
<ivoks> superm1: yep; works beautiful ;)
<Nrrd> hi guys, I just want to clarify something regarding an SRU patch related to bug #364745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 364745 in blogtk "blogtk crashes on start" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/364745
<Nrrd> are the changelog notes in the karmic release good enough for the SRU release? or should I be more indepth with the SRU? (I've used the correct numbering methodology BTW)
<Laney> changelogs should always be as verbose as they can imo
<Laney> where, what, why
<Nrrd> Laney: blogtk, severe regression as it crashes on startup due to deprecated functionality in python 2.6 rev 60976
<Nrrd> Laney: the changelog mentions all of that except for the severe regression bit
<Nrrd> Laney: would this cover it in the changelog? http://paste.ubuntu.com/201661/
<statik> scottK: you know lots about python packaging, any chance you have a minute to give me some advice on how to deal with stripping OS X resource fork gunk out of this package? I've tried the override_dh_install: thing that was suggested earlier, but it doesn't seem to be working. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/python-simplesettings
<Laney> Nrrd: looks good
<Nrrd> sweet, I'll do a summary in the bug, attach the debdiff (again! :) ) and get that sent into SRU then.  Cheers.
<ScottK> statik: Maybe on Friday.  I'm on a bit of a deadline today and will be offline mostly tue - thurs.  Ping me then if you haven't got it sorted.
<statik> ScottK: of course, np. hope you hit your deadline
<POX> statik: just add `find . -name "\._*" -delete` to clean rule
<statik> POX, thanks! would I add an override_clean: target since I am using cdbs and debhelper7 ?
<POX> clean:: should be enough, cdbs *and* dh7?
<POX> oh, you're not using sequencer, right
<statik> POX: i'm not really sure what sequencer is. I've got a really really simple rules file
<statik> i can pastebin it
<POX> simpler than /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny ?
<statik> POX: here is what I currently have. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/201667/
<POX> clean is not defined in this file, so just use "clean::"
<statik> POX: thanks very much for your help, I will try that now
<POX> and you can use rules.tiny, it will do the same
<POX> pysupport is default
<statik> POX, oh cool, does it handle the egg thing also?
<statik> excellent, looks like adding clean:: solved half of it. I still need to figure out why SOURCES.txt is getting changed during the build
<statik> POX, is there any way to get those files deleted before setup.py is run? I think that is what is causing SOURCES.txt to be modified
<POX> I'm not sure about --single-version-externally-managed
<POX> I think it's default as well, but please check it
<statik> sure, will look at that now
<POX> statik: there is and you already did it
<POX> (clean rule)
<statik> POX: huh, thats strange then. when I look at the diff.gz that is generated something during the build has changed SOURCES.txt to include references to those ._* files that I deleted
<statik> although the ._* files are left out of the diff.gz now
<POX> you can remove SOURCES.txt in clean rule as well, it's regenerated
<POX> ... every time you invokde setup.py install
<statik> ooh, that should do it then. POX, thanks a million for helping me with this.
<statik> yep, that totally fixed it. hurrah!
<POX> well, I'd propose to package it for Debian, but I doubt you will convince us it's worth packaging ;-) (/me just scanned simplesettings/__init__.py)
<statik> POX: believe me, i don't want this package for it's own benefit. It's one of the dependencies for windmill though, which I want very much
<statik> i'm working on the windmill dependencies first, then will work on packaging windmill
<POX> is it better than webtest?
<statik> i haven't used webtest before
 * statik reads about webtest.canoo.com
<POX> http://pythonpaste.org/webtest/
<statik> this is probably a silly question, but what is the right way to see what the current Standards-Version is? I'm confused about whether it is 3.8.1 or 3.8.2
<POX> in debian: rmadison debian-policy; in ubuntu (probably): rmadison ubuntu-policy
<statik> POX: ah, webtest is cool. windmill is higher layer, it lets you test javascript is working as expected in the browser. i'm using zope.testbrowser rather than webtest, but webtest seems nice too.
<statik> http://www.getwindmill.com/
<nhandler> statik: The version is also at the bottom of http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<statik> excellent, thanks
<nhandler> POX: You would want to use 'rmadison -udebian debianpolicy'
<nhandler> s/debianpolicy/debian-policy/
<POX> nhandler: I was thinking about ubuntu-policy package
<nhandler> POX: ubuntu-policy isn't the best thing to go by, as it doesn't necessarily need to be in sync with debian-policy (although it usually is)
<POX> well, doesn't Standards-Version in Ubuntu packages refer to ubuntu-policy?
<nhandler> POX: No. At least I do not believe that we ever made that policy. That would also cause issues for packages synced from Debian
<ScottK> It's also recently we've had a distinction.
<nhandler> ScottK: You mean relatively recently. It was a couple of months ago
<ScottK> Yes, so this is probably the first time the versions aren't in sync
<nhandler> ScottK: ubuntu-policy is based on debian-policy, so we have always had some ubuntu modifications (ubuntuX). However, the version itself it usually in sync with debian-policy (i.e. We have ubuntu-policy 3.8.2.0ubuntu1)
<ScottK> nhandler: Look how far back the ubuntu-policy package goes
<nhandler> Is LP karma messed up again, or did cjwatson just get a LOT of karma since the last time I checked
<nhandler> ScottK: Yeah, I see. I said it was only a couple of months ago it was created
<ScottK> nhandler: I was responding to "We have always had ..."
<nhandler> ScottK: Yeah, we have always had an ubuntu delta since the package was created ;)
<masterkernel> Hello, I am looking for a reviewer for my package, kernelcheck - an automated tool that can (custom) build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source with any user patches.
<masterkernel> Link: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<Technoviking> I uploaded a debdiff for a bug in LP. Anything else I need to do to get this fix into Jaunty?
<ajmitch> Technoviking: subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponors?
<Technoviking> ajmitch: never mind it is a bug in main :), epic fail
<ajmitch> ok, ubuntu-main-sponsors then :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-23
<aboudreault> How to extract a source package (to rebuild it) with dpkg-source
<aboudreault> i get an error "public key not found"
<directhex> ignore that error
<aboudreault> but my package is not extracted
<aboudreault> ha..... wait.
<aboudreault> i think it's another problem.
<aboudreault> my old dpkg-buildpackage replace the proper .dsc.
<aboudreault> thanks.
<ScottK> superm1: I'm looking at http://www.dell.com/home/laptops and wondering what happened to Latitude laptops.  Are they gone or just renamed?
<superm1> ScottK, they're not for general consumer purchases, you have to come from a different entrance to the website
<superm1> "For Small and Medium Business"
<ScottK> superm1: OK.  Thanks.  I guess I never saw the consumer version before.
<ScottK> Right.
<lifeless> latitude get worldwide warranty and stuff
<lifeless> consumer models don't
 * ScottK has only ever had Latitude.
 * masterkernel wonders if it has always been this quiet in here
<ajmitch> it varies in here
<masterkernel> when are most of the motu reviewers in here
<ajmitch> probably during the day in the US or europe, I think
<ajmitch> again, it varies
<aboudreault> what does that mean? dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /opt/pdflib-lite/lib/libpdf.so.6
<aboudreault> What can I do for that ?
<RAOF> aboudreault: It looks like that means that something in your package is linking to /opt/pdflib-lite/lib/libpdf.so.6, and this file isn't being managed by dpkg, so dpkg-shlibdeps can't work out what package add to Depends.
<aboudreault> How can I make it to be managed with dpkg ?
<aboudreault> In fact, I did an apt-get source, added an option and tried to recompile
<RAOF> Ah.  So, that's not actually being linked in to your package?
<aboudreault> yes it is. because I've added a "--with-pdf" option to the package. So, now it's a dependency
<RAOF> So, this won't be a problem if you're just trying to make a local package.
<RAOF> Because that file isn't in a package, but you don't care because you don't need correct dependencies.
<aboudreault> haa... your are right. I've installed that library manually because there is no package.
<aboudreault> So, I can surely tell dpkg to ignore that dependency?
<RAOF> The build isn't failing, is it?  I didn't think that was a fatal error.
<aboudreault> yes it is
<RAOF> Hm.  Well, you could write a shlibs.local file, I guess.
<aboudreault> good, I'll google that. thanks for the hint :)
<aboudreault> it's look like I have to specify a "package name" that is supposed to contain the file in the shlibs.local file
<RAOF> Yeah.  Pick an installed package; let's call it libc6
<aboudreault> that's what's I thought.... strange hack, but that will work.
<mattschafer> 'Evening.
<mattschafer> I'm new to packaging and would like to work on one of the pieces of software that I use.  I found several pages in the Ubuntu wiki about how to get started.  There's a lot there, and I'm trying to get my brain wrapped around it all.  Can someone give me a few tips and pointers?
<mattschafer> Or perhaps answer a few introductory questions?
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<RAOF> That's probably where you want to be :)
<ScottK> mattschafer: As questions as you have them and people will generally answer.
<mattschafer> RAOF:  I've read through all of those.  Thanks for the links.
<mattschafer> So my first basic question is this:  I found the package I want in the Debian being_packaged list.  However, it's been there with no other activity I can find for over 19 months.  Does this mean that I ought not to start an Ubuntu packaging attempt?
<ScottK> mattschafer: Is it an RFP bug or an ITP bug?
<mattschafer> Oh, let me check.  I think it was ITP, but I'll confirm.
<mattschafer> It's an ITP:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=449031
<ubottu> Debian bug 449031 in wnpp "RFP: chandler-desktop -- Personal Information Management application" [Wishlist,Open]
<ScottK> mattschafer: Either way if it's been that long it shouldn't stop you.  Since it's an ITP, you might email the person and see if they are still interested, got any useful work done you might leverage, or perhaps ran into some reason it couldn't reasonably be packaged.
<mattschafer> ScottK:  Right.  That's a good idea.
<mattschafer> Okay, I need to read the PackagingGuide in detail.  There are many large areas where the package doesn't comply with the Debian guide.  Same is probably true for Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Debian/Ubuntu packaging are about 98% the same.
<persia> And it's not important if the package complies with the guide, so long as it complies with policy.
<persia> There's lots of ways to construct a correct package.
<mattschafer> One of the developers of Chandler Desktop said that he started the process of learning packaging about 18 months ago, but then had to pull back from the project.  He said that there are some MOTUs that may have history from his initial discussions back then.  I think he even went to a MOTU conference.  How might I find those folks?  Or is it not important, as others will pick up when I dig into it?
<mattschafer> persia:  So the guide is not policy?  Is there an Ubuntu packaging policy doc somewhere?
<persia> mattschafer, I believe the Ubuntu policy is in the Ubuntu debian-policy package.
<mattschafer> Ah.  I was looking for it online.
<persia> But except for a few minor notes related to maintainers, merge changes, etc. they are the same.
<mattschafer> I see that there is both a debian-policy package and an ubuntu-policy package.
<mattschafer> I'll install those.  Thanks.
<persia> Then it's the ubuntu-policy package :)
<persia> As for finding people, I suspect the majority were just helping package, rather than specifically interested in chandler (although I may be mistaken).  If there's a package on REVU, you might check the comments, but I think you"re better off just taking a fresh start.
<mattschafer> Okay, here's another question.  Is it better to start by packaging for Ubuntu; or is it better to package in Debian, then let Ubuntu pick it up?
<mattschafer> persia:  Probably true.  Those efforts happened so long ago.
<persia> Doesn't really matter where you start.  Best to have it in Debian when you finish.
<persia> In other words, the answer to that question depends on whether you personally find us or the debian-mentors group a better match to your personal work methods.
<mattschafer> Ahhhh.  I don't know any of you.  :)
<mattschafer> I just started looking into this about 3 days ago.
<persia> Well then.  Start here.  When you get your package in good shape, get it into Debian.  Maintain it there, unless you need to have a difference especially for Ubuntu.
<mattschafer> Sounds good.  Thanks.
<mattschafer> I think my first steps are to contact the Debian maintainer in the ITP, start reading the packaging guides and policy manuals, and create an account in Launchpad.
<persia> That's a good start :)
<mattschafer> Then start digging into the source tree to see how I might tame that beast.  (It's pretty wicked in there.)
<persia> Indeed.  When you get stuck with that part, ask specific questions here.
<persia> (we might just point you at the policy manual, but we might have a good answer)
<mattschafer> I know of three packages that they compile and include within Chandler Desktop that have modifications not integrated by upstream.
<mattschafer> In at least one case, the modifications are "bordering on a fork"
<mattschafer> So I'll have my work cut out for me, I bet.
<mattschafer> Do you think the weekly packaging training sessions would be useful?
<ajmitch> I'd hope they have some use :)
<persia> You might want to review the logs.  They tend to explain one or another way of doing things fairly verbosely.
<mattschafer> Hmm.  More specifically:  Do you think they'd be useful for someone literally completely new to packaging?  Or do you need some familiarity to make sense of it?
<persia> Attending them regularly can be interesting, if you'd like to learn about other ways of packaging stuff.
<mattschafer> Okay, great.  Just found the page of logs.
<persia> Depends on the class.  Some assume familiarity, and some don't.  it also depends on who attended: they are usually structured to be educational to those present, rather than to make educational logs.
<mattschafer> Well, thanks for all of your help.  I think I have enough to keep me busy for the next several evenings.
<dholbach> good morning
<MTecknology> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hiya MTecknology
<MTecknology> dholbach: so, how's life?
<dholbach> I'm slowly waking up and reviewing a bunch of patches atm
<dholbach> how are you?
<MTecknology> doing ok
<MTecknology> feeling kinda sad, I might need to make a ban
<iulian> G'morning dholbach!
<dholbach> heya iulian!
<slytherin> persia: geser: Can either of you please try building lucene2 from debian unstable and file a sync request if it builds? I tried twice on my laptop but unit tests are failing. Not sure what the issue is, but I suspect it is because of space constraint. The unit test seems to write a lot of data.
<persia> slytherin, I'm having some HW limitations right now.  Dunno if I can build it.
<slytherin> persia: ok. By the way, did you manage to check the powerpc chroot taken from buildd?
<persia> slytherin, I did.  It didn't fail for me.  Dunno why.
<slytherin> surprising
<geser> slytherin: trying to build right now, but given that I've seen "[junit] Test org.apache.lucene.search.TestRemoteCachingWrapperFilter FAILED" I don't know if it makes sense to let it build further
<cjwatson> nhandler: my karma's been rising fairly steadily for a while - I think I've just been busy in ways that LP notices ;-)
<slytherin> geser: I don't remember which test was failing. I had kept the laptop on overnight as the build takes lot of time (specifically unit tests).
<ttx> iulian: ping
<iulian> ttx: Hey
<ttx> iulian: thx for looking after the tomcat6 merges :)
<ttx> iulian: I was wondering if we should not just sync them though.
<ttx> iulian: Debian might actually be right in their use of openjdk- vs default-
<ttx> iulian: on the build-depends side, tomcat6 doesn't build with gcj so it makes sense to force openjdk-6-jdk
<ttx> iulian: on the runtime depends side, as long as they keep the "| java6-runtime-headless" it isn't worth keeping the delta
<iulian> ttx: Oh, so, do you recommend to change it back to openjdk?
<iulian> I can do that right now.
<ttx> iulian: well, the package was originally done in Ubuntu and later adopted by debian, so it's not really "changing it back"
<ttx> iulian: it's more accepting their changes :)
<iulian> Ah
<iulian> Right
<ttx> iulian: the only somewhat wrong thing in there is the libservlet2.5-java depends
<ttx> but that's not worth keeping the delta
<iulian> ttx: Hmm, could you please enlighten me a bit about libservlet2.5-java?
<ttx> iulian: it all comes from the default-java things, that point to different options based on arch
<ttx> iulian: default-jre-headless usually points to openjdk-6-jre-headless but can also point to gcj on some arch
<ttx> iulian: if the library requires Java 6 it makes sense to write "openjdk-6-jre-headless | java6-runtime-headless"
<ttx> to force Java 6 options
<iulian> Ah-ha.
<ttx> iuian: however if it requires only Java 2...
<ttx> iulian: "openjdk-6-jre-headless | java2-runtime-headless" is a bit too much
<ttx> "default-jre-headless | java2-runtime-headless" is better
<ttx> but that's just being picky
<ttx> and it's more for affecting debian than us (since we have our default-java uising openjdk-6)
<ttx> iulian: so if they are happy with it, we should probably be as well
<iulian> ttx: That being said, should we accept their changes and stay in sync with Sid?
<ttx> iulian: I'd say so. Haven't tested the last release though.
<ttx> iulian: let me check how they did the tomcat-juli.jar thing
<iulian> ttx: Excellent, thanks!
<iulian> My lappy somehow freezes when building packages or removing large files, I have no idea why :-(
<hyperair> bad i/o scheduler?
<iulian> Probably, no clue.
<iulian> I don't remember it freezing in this way back when I was using the ext3 fs.
<hyperair> oho.
<hyperair> are you an intel gpu user?
<iulian> hyperair: Nah.
<iulian> hyperair: Is this bug known?
<hyperair> iulian: i had it when intel's GEM memory usage hit ~2G or so. then it'd start fighting with disk io for cache
<up_the_irons> is this the right channel to ask whether it is possible to view the changelog of a package w/o installing it?  (like hypothetical "apt-cache showchangelog <foo>")
<dupondje> up_the_irons: not really, but u can just check it on packages.ubuntu.com
<up_the_irons> dupondje: ok thanks
<directhex> apt-listchanges
<up_the_irons> directhex: thanks
<DktrKranz> Laney: have you already read at mok0's email in ubuntu-motu?
<Laney> no
 * mok0 wakes up..
<Laney> good timing, I only *just* came back online
<Laney> was reading my emails
<DktrKranz> \o/
<Laney> oh
<Laney> yeah don't do anything about that just yet
<mok0> Laney: You care about Haskell?
<Laney> 6.10.4 is coming soon
<Laney> I do!
<mok0> Laney: cool
<mok0> (Must admit I know nxt to nothing about it)
<Laney> I was wondering if there's some kind of status page to write stuff like this
<Laney> "don't worry about this, it's under control"
<mok0> Laney: just reply to my message.
<Laney> I will, but I bet most people won't see it
<Laney> it would be better if we had a whiteboard
<Laney> replying anyway
<mok0> Laney: yes... some kind of status of all packages, like MoM perhaps
<Laney> even more coarse than that, just a list of bullets
<Laney> MOTU current affairs or something
<Laney> dholbach: do you know of anything like this?
<mok0> Laney: why don't you make one on the wiki and link to it from MOTUs team page?
<Laney> I will if nothing exists already
<mok0> Laney: the hard thing about these pages is keeping them current
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> Don't know what we can do about that, besides recording date + submitter
<mok0> Laney, Even MoM has problems, if a merged package appears in a new version, the old comments still hang around
<mok0> Laney: yes, and target release
<Laney> maybe split it up by release cycle
<mok0> :)
<mok0> Beat you to that one :-)
<dholbach> Laney: I hope that harvest will have something like that for all kinds of things in a few weeks, I'll just be quite busy in the next 2 weeks and not get around to doing something about it
 * mok0 thinks we need to ask the supreme leader to relax the release schedule... releases are getting increasingly buggy
<Laney> we're just guinea pigs for the LTS release anyway:)
<mok0> Laney: well the ground troops can wear out
<mok0> Laney: and the LTS can become a "phhhfft" rather than a "BOOOM"
<dholbach> so for now I guess the wiki is the best option
 * mok0 hugs dholbach
<dholbach> soon I'd hope we could have a ftbfs.csv generated and add it to harvest
<dholbach> or unmetdeps.csv or whatever
<gaspa> dholbach: here I am ... :P
<gaspa> i was thinking to put geser's page results on harvest.
<dholbach> gaspa: sure do it :)
<gaspa> is that what you said before?
<gaspa> dholbach: I mean... you said that you'd like to have a ftbfs.csv ... if results like geser's page goes well, we had already much work done.
<dholbach> sure, add it to harvest-data
<Laney> wait, wasn't there an ubuntu developers news thing?
 * Laney starts the cogs spinning
<Laney> james_w: I think you were involved with it?
<Laney> hi jcfp
<jcfp> hi Laney
<jcfp> thanks for looking at that patch :)
<Laney> no worries, sorry I forgot about it in the house move... :(
 * mok0 excuses his ignorance, but what is this harvest thing you're talking about?
<hyperair> isn't that the low hanging fruit thing?
<Laney> yeah
<mok0> url?
<Laney> some way of finding stuff to work on... I never figured out how to get anything from it sadly
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest
<dholbach> it's not superduperhelpful at the moment
<dholbach> but I plan to put some work into it this cycle
<Laney> there's a big list of patches, and you're supposed to check if we want to take them AFAICS
<mok0> dholbach: of course you could make a tutorial in #ubuntu-classroom
<Laney> there were tutorials in open week
<gaspa> there's also the output of edos on karmic :P
<dholbach> mok0: what kind of tutorial?
<gaspa> edos-{build,}decheck, I mean
<mok0> dholbach: you know, teaching a class
<dholbach> about what?
<mok0> dholbach: harvest
<dholbach> I hope to make it intuitive soon :)
<mok0> dholbach: of course
<mok0> dholbach: oh, I see you have patches from fedora too cool
<dholbach> it's a bit broken right now, that's why I'd prefer to not put too much work into it in its current form
<dholbach> the plan is to django-ify it
<dholbach> and I'll put some work into kicking that effort off into two weeks or something
<mok0> dholbach: ah, django... have been wanting to learn that a long time now
<dholbach> cool, I'll note you down as people to speak to when it becomes a bit clearer what needs doing to make harvest useful again :)
<mok0> dholbach: please do!
 * dholbach hugs mok0!
<mok0> :-)
<highvoltage> hey motus
<mok0> What kind of device does the armel buildd run on, does anyone know?
<mok0> Marks mobile phone perhaps...
<highvoltage> I'm doing a cat << EOF | uudecode > image.png
<highvoltage> but the data that follows contains backticks that are interpreted
<highvoltage> what can I do so that everything that follows just goes to uudecode?
<mok0> highvoltage: why do you need that cat << EOF stuff? uuencode will handel embedded input
<mok0> s/handel/handle
<highvoltage> mok0: I want to put it in a dpatch file, persia suggested I do it like that
<mok0> highvoltage: you are supplying a png for the app?
<highvoltage> mok0: yes
<mok0> highvoltage: just uuencode the file, and save it as *.png.uu in debian/
<mok0> highvoltage: at install time, uudecode the file from debian/ and install it
<highvoltage> mok0: I could do that, but persia said I get extra points if I do it inside the patch :)
<mok0> highvoltage: I understand the challenge, but I don't see the point
<mok0> highvoltage: better to make it as simple as possible
<highvoltage> mok0: ok
<mok0> highvoltage: you can _create_ a png.uu file via a patch, and then uudecode it
<persia> Hrm?  That doesn;t make sense.
<mok0> highvoltage: personally, I like putting stuff like that in debian/ easier to maintain
<persia> dpatch is an executable shell script.  Makes sense to use it.
<persia> Otherwise, yeah, just stuff a file in debian/ and unpack in rules.
<mok0> persia: that's mis-use of dpatch IMHO
<persia> mok0, Hrm?  Why.  dpatch is shell scripts precisely to support odd stuff like that.
<Laney> whoops, I think I posted to ubuntu-motu from the wrong address
<mok0> persia: I think that's not very intuitive. dpatch is for applying patches
<persia> Laney, just cancel when you get the moderation mail and repost.
<persia> mok0, Well, it depends.
<soren> Laney: I'll accept it
<Laney> I'll just wait for it to be accepted
<Laney> thanks soren
<soren> Laney: There.
<persia> it's not intuitive to create, but it's intuitive to use, because the patch changes the file, as one would expect.
<Laney> too kind
<mok0> persia: can you give me an example of a package where dpatch is used to run scripts?
<persia> Every single dpatch is a shell script.
<soren> Laney: And added that address as an acceptabl sender.
<Laney> oh, awesome
<mok0> persia: well, they have the shebang line I know that
<highvoltage> persia: so if I'd want to use cat in the dpatch file, would I need to escape all the backticks?
<Laney> I try not to use it for Ubuntu stuff but that's not the fist time I've got it wrong
<persia> highvoltage, Yes.
<highvoltage> persia: perhaps in this particular instance mok0's way would be better?
<persia> highvoltage, mok0's way is both more common and easier.
<mok0> persia: but that's just used to start dpatch in a "clever" way
<mok0> highvoltage: ;-)
<persia> mok0, and this is why :)
<highvoltage> ok I'm not going to do the cat thing in dpatch then to make things simpler for a future maintainer
<mok0> persia: so I could hide an evil script in there and take over the buildd's hehehe
<persia> The point being that using dpatch to place the binary allows one to comply with the guideline to easily allow the source to be patched with debian/rules patch and no fuss.
<highvoltage> (I'll get my extra points some other way ;) )
<persia> otherwise, one needs to make debian/rules more complicated
 * persia prefers simple debian/rules
<persia> mok0, No, you could take over the build instance, same as you could if you just stuck something in debian/rules.
<mok0> persia: rules is a documentation of how the package is built
 * Laney wonders what the MOTU Reporting Page is for
<mok0> Laney: reporting indecent behaviour among the MOTU?
<persia> Laney, We're supposed to do a monthly report.  Nobody has volunteered to be our monthly reporter for a very long time.  Are you up for it?
<persia> mok0, Well, it depends.  I like the idea that one gets the patched source with a single command more than I like the idea that debian/rules documents the build.
<Laney> persia: Not really. Apart from a lack of time, I see a lack of interest too. I was just searching for an existing MOTU whiteboard
<mok0> persia: matter of taste I guess...
<persia> I suppose one could do uudecode stuff in patch:, but I don't like to complicate things.
<persia> Laney, whiteboard?  Towards what end?
<persia> mok0, Indeed :)
<Laney> documenting goings on of note
<Laney> specifically "Don't panic about all the uninstallable haskell packages" in my case
<persia> Wasn't there an initiative to coordinate with the News team to publish those?
<mok0> persia: our chat started with my ML email a while ago
<persia> Oh, for that, send a note to ubuntu-devel@
<Laney> yeah, I pinged James earlier because my distant memory has something like this
<mok0> persia: the point is that email are not remembered very long. What we need it Google Wave :-)
<mok0> s/it/is
<persia> mok0, Erm, maybe.  In this instance, I think email is better, because the information is only meaningful for a moderate amount of time.
<mok0> persia: that's true, and a wiki page needs to be kept up-to-date
<Laney> I guess I'd intend it to contain ongoing items of work, not really sure
<persia> Right.  Wikis are bad for this sort of thing, unless you've only a few people.
<persia> Laney, For ongoing work, there was MOTU/TODO, but it's now very out of date.
<mok0> Laney, persia, if you Re: the original status message in email, it will be grouped by a modern threaded mail client
<mok0> Actually, it might be better just to have a continuing thread on the mailing list, where new versions of the text are posted
<Laney> I'm not worried about updating the status, it's more about letting people know what's going on so they don't worry or duplicate work or ...
<persia> Right.  Because this is a one-time notice, use email.
<persia> For lots of other things, email isn't best.
<persia> Personally, I very much dislike the update-through-email model.
<persia> But then again, I don't much like email, so perhaps I'm biased.
<Laney> reminds me of Usenet FAQs
<mok0> Perhaps, if there was an automated posting at the beginning at each month, it would appear at every web summary page
<mok0> Laney: right
<Laney> that's too much imo
<Laney> the point of a wiki was to be simple, but it's been pointed out that this is perhaps unnecessary
<mok0> Laney: 90% of the info on the wiki is outdated
<mok0> Laney: or feels that way
<Laney> I am very much not surprised by that
<Laney> I find the wiki clunky and hard to navigate and use, so pretty much don't.
<mok0> Laney: when google wave appears we should replace it
 * Laney runs before he gets himself into "you fix it" territory :)
<mok0> Laney: it's like archaeological culture layers... you have to live on top of them
<Laney> it's fine to read as individual pages of documentation (where it's still current) though
<mok0> Laney: right. There are 10% of the pages that are relatively maintained
<persia> Well, I'm not sure that as much as that is maintained, but there's lots that hasn't gotten that stale as well.
 * mok0 sighs
<Laney> Maybe we need something more like the git community book and less like a wiki
<persia> Hrm?  Why?
<Laney> (for MOTU docs)
<persia> How does that change anything?
<Laney> mainly with regards to organisation and consistency
<persia> Changing the format doesn't change the contents meaningfully.
<Laney> Well it wouldn't just be a straight port, but editing too
<Laney> I don't think that organic growth is producing the best quality documentation
<persia> Ah, but that would require editors and structure, which would require people doing it.
<persia> I'd personally rather those who can be developers be developers, and I don't trust those who can't be developers to document it correctly.
<Laney> yes, it would require a big initial push
<persia> In other words, it's up to us to document it best we can.
<slytherin> does anyone have any idea if the package sync script will be run at least once before DIF?
<persia> We've done a couple reviews and edits of the MOTU sections of the wiki previously.  Feel free to lead another :)
<Laney> slytherin: It was going to be done today if it hasn't already
 * mok0 has argued for a MOTU blog
<slytherin> Laney: it hasn't already.
<persia> slytherin, Should be run every ArchiveAdmin day through DIF day.
<Laney> mok0: You could hack wordpress to use lplib auth!
<persia> mok0, Doesn't really help.  Timeliness, lack of utility over time, etc.
<mok0> persia: perhaps but it's not as  prolific as a wiki
<persia> mok0, Hrm?  How do you mean?
<mok0> persia: there will be "pages" and there will be "blog entries". The former typically for documentation, the latter for temporary messages.
<persia> Erm, except what temporary messages don't belong on ubuntu-devel@ ?
<mok0> persia: the "pages" will be a single text file, not a bunch of #included segments from who knows where
<persia> Oh, I don't like that either, but dholbach was the last person to drive a wiki cleanup, and did it that way.  Feel free to unwind it if you have the time and patience.
<mok0> persia: I don't :-)
<persia> Right.  I don't think changing the format changes anything.
<mok0> persia: I propose moving everything to a blog :-)
<persia> Hard to have static docs in a blog.
<mok0> persia: no, you just have a "page"
<persia> And pages link to other pages, and we can all edit the pages?
<mok0> persia: yep
<persia> And there's a special page that shows the recently changed pages, and another than shows the new pages?
<mok0> persia: sort of like a wiki ;-)
<persia> and you can get RSS feeds from these?
<mok0> persia: yes
<persia> Yeah.  That's my point :)
<persia> You're just changing the format of the entries.
<mok0> persia: seriously, Google Wave will turn everything around
<persia> Seriously, I don't think this is a problem that technology can address.
<persia> The problem is that nobody wants to handle the docs.
<mok0> persia: have you watched the video?
<persia> And the one person who did step in an try to do it did it in a way nobody else wants to use.
<persia> I've watched the video, but I still say it's irrelevant.
<slytherin> Laney: persia: looks like sync has been done but the changes are not advertised on karmic-changes mailing list.
<mok0> persia: well, that's your prerogative if you do the work
<persia> slytherin, autosync generally isn't advertised there.
<slytherin> I thought it was
<persia> mok0, Indeed.  I don't blame that person, I just say that's where we are.  Redoing everything is just makework.
<mok0> persia: I guess
<mok0> persia: we are too pressed with these damn semi-annual releases
<persia> So, I'd rather fix it.  If there's a specific issue with our specific underlying technology, that's diffe3rent.  To me, the problem is entirely social.
<mok0> persia: with all this release work, there is no time to improve our infrastructure. That is my point
<mok0> persia: -devs are wearing out fast, and newcomers don't know the history
<persia> mok0, Well, that's not strictly true.  Some of us could, and some of us have in the past.  Just nobody is doing it now.
<mok0> persia: you said that last year :-)
<mok0> persia: and will be saying it a year from now
<persia> Yes.  Nothing much has changed since then.  It remains true.
<mok0> persia: I could change if we were heard by the top of the pyramid
<persia> I doubt I'll be saying that a year from now.  if we don't update the infrastructure, we will lose the game.
<mok0> persia: exactly
<persia> What do you mean "I could change if we were heard by the top of the pyramid"?
<mok0> persia: many MOTUs move on to do main work
<persia> Ah, yes.
<persia> That's why I believe in ArchiveReorganisation.
<mok0> persia: I mean that the semi-annual schedule is wearing everybody out
<persia> Well, the schedule isn't going to change.
<persia> Perhaps we're not doing it right, as less of us used to do it before.
<mok0> persia: we are just patching the same bugs over and over b/c there is no time to submit to upstream
<persia> We spend a lot of time doing more merges past DIF.  This is good for users, but not specifically required.
<persia> Hrm.  That's an interesting perspective.
<mok0> persia: that's because many bugs are solved by upstream updates
<persia> I know.  They also cause some bugs.  It's not clear what is the right answer.
<persia> Originally, the right answer was to sync sid, and fix all the bugs over six months in a small subset of packages for each flavour.
<persia> Of course, that has changed significantly, and MOTU is a large part of that change.
<mok0> persia: they do, but ultimately the responsibility is in upstream's hands
<persia> But it does make the problem different.
<mok0> persia: was there any discussions at UDS along these lines=
<mok0> ?
<mok0> s/was/were
<mok0> Of course, we could choose to just make 1 release of Universe every year
<persia> Not that I attended, but UDS tends to be light on MOTU topics, mostly because nobody schedules any, usually because only a minority of active MOTU are present.
<mok0> I see
<persia> See, I'm not sure how one release of universe could work.
<persia> But again, I don't think Universe is a useful entity to consider.
<mok0> No, it would be hard esp. if the toolchain is updated
<persia> Right.
<persia> So, we're stuck doing what we can.
<persia> And we do best if we can pass patches, etc. upstream.
<mok0> persia: you are right unfortunately
<persia> Just remerging stuff is probably a waste of time.
<persia> Of course, if there's a package you use, and you want it newer, go ahead.
<mok0> persia: well, at the same time we  all have an ambition that a release be the "latest and greatest"
<persia> But if you aren't using it, and it's not horribly broken, I'm not sure why it's being updated.
<persia> I don't.
<persia> My ambition is that my computer works better each release.
<mok0> persia: users do, and so do the tech bloggers
<persia> As a result, I tend to only fuss about patches on packages that happen to be installed on my computers.
<mok0> persia: of course
<persia> Sure.  We all have different motivations to do what we do.
<mok0> There are things that have been really good, f.ex. the Python 2.6 transition
<persia> Right.
<mok0> I think user's appreciate that
<persia> Indeed.  Those are good for lots of reasons, which is why more of us chip in to get them done.
<bddebian> Heya gnag
<bddebian> Err gang
<masterkernel> can someone tell me what constitutes a package review?
<persia> masterkernel, In what sense?
<masterkernel> persia: what do motu developers do when they review packages?
<persia> How do you mean "review".  As in a new package?
<masterkernel> sorry, yes
<directhex> masterkernel, check it against debian packaging policy & guidelines, usually
<directhex> masterkernel, or some approximation thereof
<persia> Generally check for policy compliance (including licensing), following of best practices, that the package compiles, installs, and works, etc.
<fenris-> persia: sorry dc
<masterkernel> it just seems like my package is screaming "stay away from me!!!", esp. on mentors.debian, because the sponsor there would bear responsibility for the package since i am anonymous
<mypapit> fakap fenris-, misscall aku pg td
<mypapit> fenris-, wtf with that
<fenris-> tersalah tekan
<mypapit> fenris-, lepas tu x jawab sms
<persia> masterkernel, I believe being anonymous is not policy complaint, although being pseudonymous is, although I may be mistaken.
<mypapit> wtf wtf
<masterkernel> persia: theres a debate on that over on mentors: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/06/msg00601.html
<persia> masterkernel, I'm not surprised.  There's been debates here before.
<masterkernel> persia: it seems like pseudonyms are legal copyright holders, as long as the person can be verified (according to country)
<masterkernel> i guess it would be in my best interest to promote it within the debian community and see if i can get users to push for it to be added
<persia> masterkernel, From what I understand, that is true in most jurisdictions, but I've never heard of anywhere that anonymous was OK.
<masterkernel> as long as I can go to the office and easily identify myself, there is a checkbox on the form that says "this work is registered under a pseudonym" and the work would use that
<persia> masterkernel, It depends on where you are.  I actually looked stuff up for someone once.  They lived in the US, and in their state, it wasn't possible, but in Virginia it was, and Virginia was nearby.  I don't remember their state.
<persia> The issue was with the registration of aliases, and how that worked.
<ryanprior> Hello there. I'm a developer for the Ecere project (http://ecere.com) and our first free and open-source release is in the release candidate stage. We expect to put out our official release within the next couple weeks. We really want to get our packages into Universe for Karmic -- is anyone interested in sponsoring us?
<directhex> ryanprior, are you intending on doing the packager work yourselves (sponsorship) or requesting that someone else do that work (needs-packaging)?
<slytherin> slomo: Do you mind me updating the gst-plugins-*-multiverse packages to bring them in sync with their universe counterparts?
<slomo> slytherin: no, please do that
<ogra> directhex, is there a chance we could get mono-desbugger on armel ? :)
<ogra> *debugger even
<directhex> ogra, the debugger needs to be partially rewritten per-arch o_o
<ogra> its currently not Architecture: any
<ogra> ok
<directhex> ogra, i.e. if you write that support, i'll love you forever, and probably miguel too ;)
<directhex> but it's not arch:any because it just isn't :(
<ogra> NCommander, ^^^^ your way to get a rupert signed by miguel :)
<ogra> yeah, understood
<NCommander> What's a rupert?
<ogra> something you urgently want :)
<ogra> belive me
<NCommander> So port mono-debugger to ARM?
<ogra> really
<directhex> ogra, ruperts ran amok at UDS!
<ogra> yeah ... after your TB excess :)
<NCommander> Christ, after finishing TB2, I probably can easily make that happen
<ogra> directhex, i know, you gave me one :)
<ogra> its sitting on my desk
<ogra> NCommander, rupert > chumby
<ogra> (though not as multifunctional i must admit)
 * NCommander hasn't plugged his chumby in
<NCommander> I'd like to see if I can stream TV to it
<ogra> the advantage of a rupert is that you *dont need to plug it in* :)
<ryanprior> directhex: we intend to do the package work ourselves, but we are not expert debian packagers, so we could use some guidance. I think sponsorship is most appropriate.
<directhex> ryanprior, then you want revu
<slytherin> slomo: oh, by the way, do you plan to upload next version of totem to Debian unstable (instead of experimental)?
<ryanprior> directhex: That would be #ubuntu-revu ?
<directhex> ryanprior, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<slomo> slytherin: of course not :) it needs new totem-plparser and the api of it can still change and that would be a nightmare
<slytherin> slomo: Ok. I will try adding experimental repository and see how good new totem works.
<slomo> slytherin: very good but you probably want totem and gstreamer git for even better experience ;)
<slytherin> slomo: I am particularly looking for better DVD playback.
<slomo> slytherin: except the missing support for non-ac3 audio it works good... with menus and everything
<slytherin> slomo: sound good.
<directhex> yays!
<directhex> that reminds me, i need to try out vlc's supposed support for bloo rays
<slytherin> slomo: I suppose I can do apt-get upgrade from testing. I mean I hope appropriate conflicts/replaces are added to the new packages.
<slytherin> directhex: do you have blu ray drive?
<slytherin> directhex: one of my friend tried on Windows, it didn't work. Not sure what all things he tried.
<directhex> slytherin, i have a drive, and have dumped most (some?) of my discs. afaik vlc doesn't have any aacs cracking functions, but it now has support for disc dumps
<slomo> slytherin: should work, yes
<Adri2000> bddebian: around? how did you generate the autotools changes for djplay?
<bddebian> Adri2000: I think just autoreconf -fvi
<bddebian> Hmm, maybe it needs a gettextize run?
<Adri2000> I ran lots of auto* things, including autoreconf with -f and -i, but it is still looking for glib-config
<kpirc> I need a reviewer for my 'cadabra' package on REVU (it's a symbolic computer algebra system with graphical notebook frontend). Any takers?
<mok0> Hm, twtr is vry good fr learng 2 mking shrt & concse sntences
<iulian> Heh.
<mok0> :)
<ville__> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule, Aug 27 is the FeatureFreeze time. So I suppose I have time until that to package a new app for Karmic?
<ville__> karmic universe that is
<bddebian> Adri2000: You applied my patch first?
<mok0> kpirc: I'll bit
<mok0> kpirc: bite
<kpirc> mok0: thanks!
<Adri2000> bddebian: no
<kpirc> mok0: it should be relatively painless, it has been on REVU for quite a while now and I think most obvious problems have been fixed.
<mok0> kpirc: oh, yes, I remember it now, I've revu'ed it before
<bddebian> Adri2000: yeah, you would have do do that first, I think I hacked out the glib-config with pkg-config
<mok0> kpirc: ... and modglue made it into jaunty afair
<kpirc> mok0: yes, modglue is in, so all dependencies are now in the official repos
<mok0> kpirc: Super, should be easy then
<mok0> kpirc: gimme 10-15 mins
<kpirc> mok0: ok, no prob
<Adri2000> bddebian: ok, will try that. but I'd be interested in what changes you made
<bddebian> Adri2000: Isn't there a patch on BTS?
<Adri2000> there is
<bddebian> Those should be the changes I made and then just autoreconf'd
<Adri2000> but I mean what changes besides autoreconf
<Adri2000> the patch includes the autoreconf changes
<Adri2000> so I don't know what is from you and what is from autoreconf
<Adri2000> (apart from the debian/changelog and debian/control changes of course)
<Adri2000> your patch works indeed
<mok0> kpirc? Oh, you left
<bddebian> Adri2000: Oh, sorry I usually strip those out.  I think the only real change I made was the one to configure.ac
<Adri2000> bddebian: ok
<geser> al-maisan: Hi, I've looked at some of your sync requests and wondered myself why you didn't find any remaining changes
<al-maisan> hello geser, I saw your comments yesterday but did not have time to follow up.
<al-maisan> let me take another look and I will come back to you.
<al-maisan> another look at the packages in question that is,
<geser> ok, no hurry
<masterkernel> Anybody want to review kernelcheck? - automated tool used to (custom) compile any 2.6 kernel with any user patches
<masterkernel> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<hyperair> masterkernel: don't bump the ubuntu version in every upload to revu
<hyperair> masterkernel: a NEW package should always be either -1 or -0ubuntu1, depending on whether it's debian or ubuntu's NEW
<hyperair> ah kernelcheck's a python app eh... why don't you go maintain it in debian-python then? =p
<hyperair> much easier than poking random people on debian-mentors
<hyperair> masterkernel: you're missing copyright headers for your .py files by the way
<masterkernel> hyperair: so for each edit to the package i should do -1ubuntu1 -2ubuntu1 and so forth?
<hyperair> nonoo
<hyperair> only for each upload to the ubuntu archive, must the version be different
<hyperair> as long as you're still uploading into revu, just use -0ubuntu1
<masterkernel> oh ok
<c_korn> hello. why does this autoconf test fail if there is libavutil-dev, libavcodec-dev and libavformat-dev installed? http://pastebin.com/d30a49a85
<masterkernel> and the copyright headers should have that short gpl segment at the top?
<hyperair> masterkernel: yes.
<hyperair> c_korn: pkg-config isn't installed, i suppose.
<c_korn> hyperair: pkg-config is installed. "checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes"
<hyperair> c_korn: how very strange. why don't you pass it through sh -x =\
<hyperair> sh -x ./configure
<hyperair> or bash -x ./configure
<c_korn> hyperair: ah, nice. I did not know this option. will give it a try.
<hyperair> have fun. it's got very cryptic output, considering it's an autoconf script =p
<hyperair> i'd poke around the configure script myself
<hyperair> add a few echo's here and there
<ryanakca> Is there a reason why dpkg-source -x <foo>.dsc would hang?
<ryanakca> rgreening: Are you in a reviewing mood? Feel like reviewing and ack'ing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kobby , please?
<hyperair> ryanakca: plenty. e.g. patch hung, or tar hung, due to some disk i/o failure..
<ryanakca> hyperair: Is there a way to manually extract it?
<\sh> tar -xvzf <upstream>_<version>.orig.tar.gz
<\sh> cd <upstream>-<version> ; gunzip ../<upstream>_<version>-<package release>.diff.gz ; patch -p1 < ../<upstream>_<version>-<package release>.diff.
<rgreening> ryanakca: If I get some time tomorrow, though my week I booked with $WORK :(
<c_korn> hyperair: sh -c ./configure did not output many debug lines: http://pastebin.com/de50c570
<ryanakca> rgreening, \sh: thanks
<nellery> I think just cd <upstream>-<version>; zcat ../<upstream>_<version>-<package release>.diff.gz | patch -p1 should work shouldn't it?
<\sh> nellery: yeah..that could be a  shortcut...but to understand how a debian source package works in general...the long version is much better ;)
<nellery> ah
<nellery> ryanakca: having a look at kobby.
<\sh> c_korn: are you trying to build it in pbuilder or sbuild ?
<\sh> c_korn: if not, and you are building it on your local system, just type e.g. pkg-config --libs-only-l libavcodec e.g.
<c_korn> \sh: it is sbuild. I need to test it locally in a schroot actually.
<hyperair> c_korn: i said sh -x, not sh -c
<hyperair> that said, you should use bash -x instead
<c_korn> hyperair: that was a typo in my message. I used sh -x
<c_korn> hi j
<c_korn> hi joaopinto
<\sh> c_korn: and pkg-config --list-all will give you all known pkg-config package names
<hyperair> #
<hyperair> + exec /bin/bash ./configure --build i486-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --mandir=${prefix}/share/man --infodir=${prefix}/share/info CFLAGS=-g -O2 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,defs
<hyperair> see that?
<joaopinto> hello c_korn :P
<hyperair> if it's not run in bash, it'll exec /bin/bash
<c_korn> hm, configure is a sh script actually.
<dupondje> somebody in here can release a new version of busybox into karmic ? :s
<\sh> dupondje: ->
<hyperair> c_korn: yes it is, but it ends up calling exec /bin/bash in the end
<\sh> #ubuntu-devel is the right place
<hyperair> c_korn: either way i'd poke around the actual configure script. are you sure the configure script is up to date?
<ryanakca> nellery: Thanks
<c_korn> hyperair: autoreconf failed. said it could not find libtoolize but the libtool package has been installed in the schroot. I will try the pkg-config from the configure script first
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> try which libtoolize
<dupondje> how can I get a update of busybox into Karmic ?
<c_korn> hyperair, \sh: eh, it was a missing comma in control avoiding that all dependencies have been installed. shame on me :-(
<andrew_sayers> c_korn: I don't suppose you've been bitten by bug 391165, by any chance?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391165 in dpkg "Dpkg::Deps mishandles newlines in Build-Dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391165
<andrew_sayers> (If so, how do we nudge someone into fixing it quick?)
<c_korn> andrew_sayers: the comma was missing at the end of a line.
<andrew_sayers> In Build-Depends?  That sounds the same to me.
<andrew_sayers> (The bug is that debuild should catch that stuff, but doesn't)
<c_korn> andrew_sayers: yes, in Build-Depends
<andrew_sayers> c_korn: Hmm, okay.  I've tracked a bug in Kaffeine back to the same cause.  If it's a common issue, I'll make a bigger noise about it if it doesn't get any attention.
<ryanakca> nellery: Fixed
<c_korn> andrew_sayers: as I see you already attached a patch.
<nellery> ryanakca: excellent, I'll have another look shortly
<ryanakca> nellery: thanks
<andrew_sayers> c_korn: Yeah, it's a trivial fix, it's just a matter of getting someone to apply it... then rebuilding every package in Ubuntu :s
<c_korn> why that?
<c_korn> do they all depend on dpkg?
<andrew_sayers> Okay, more precisely, any debian/control file could have the same bug, and nobody would notice until people filed a report on the resulting problem.
<andrew_sayers> I guess we could just download all the debian/control files, and see which have missing line-end commas.
<james_w> andrew_sayers: subscribe the sponsors to your report to get it reviewed
<andrew_sayers> james_w: You mean ubuntu-main-sponsors?
<james_w> yup
<andrew_sayers> james_w: Ta :)  Should I do the same for Kaffeine?  It's a fairly serious regression with a one-character patch.
<andrew_sayers> (bug 365770)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 365770 in kaffeine "Screensaver starts while playing a Video with Kaffeine (missing build-dependency on libxtst-dev)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365770
<james_w> andrew_sayers: yeah
<andrew_sayers> james_w: Done.  Thanks for the pointer.
<ryanakca> nellery: replied, I don't think there's anything to do about the watch file, I explained the situation in the comment
<masterkernel> hyperair: copyright headers added. i'll be back on later
<mok0> Heh, watching Trailer Park Boys -- hillarious
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-24
<mok0> "@antifacista45xx is a perl script with an array of pro-khamenei slogans, and @Avi0wn3d is a python script to counter it." Yay Python!
<qiyong> does cvs have a startup script in init.d or is it startup by inetd?
<ajmitch> I suspect inetd, but I haven't used cvs for several years (thankfully)
<ajmitch> you should probably check in the package
<lifeless> inetd
<lifeless> but, don't use cvs. thanks
<qiyong> so cvs has no standalone mode?
<qiyong> lifeless: user insists cvs, period
<lifeless> it doesn't.
<lifeless> if you're writing you should use it via ssh anyway
<qiyong> it doesn't support standalone?
<lifeless> thats correct
<qiyong> i have to use pserver for windows clients
<MTecknology> Time for me to learn how to packlage... I'm going to package my own junk soon enough
<nhandler> :)
<MTecknology> nhandler: it's a scary road I'm about to embark upon
<MTecknology> I tried to fix bugs in packages once and I failed horribly
<nhandler> MTecknology: If you are interested, we do have a mentoring program you can join
 * MTecknology is interested
<nhandler> MTecknology: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<MTecknology> cool
<ryanprior> Hi there, I'm trying to build a source package to upload to REVU. When I run the suggested command, "dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot", I get an error about a missing debian/changelog file -- this suggests to me that building the package really isn't so straightforward.
<lifeless> ryanprior: you need to *have* a package to be able to build it. Upstream tarballs are not packages.
<ryanprior> I tried to Google for a tutorial on building a Debian source package, but while there are lots of tutorials on building binary packages, I couldn't find one for building source packages.
<RAOF> ryanprior: You'd be looking for !packagingguide
<ryanprior> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<ryanprior> I will take a look.
<ajmitch> packages that break on python2.4 annoy me
<lifeless> ajmitch: any particular reason?
<ajmitch> because it interrupted my upgrading of packages to the latest karmic version :)
<ajmitch> it's a new package in karmic that just appears to have the wrong python version info
<ajmitch> since it relies on features from 2.5
<MTecknology> Is this link supposed to be an empty tarball? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<MTecknology> this part - wget http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.4.tar.gz
<ajmitch> MTecknology: it's not empty when I download it
<MTecknology> oh...
<MTecknology> spelling error in the wiki....
<ajmitch> what is the spelling error?
<MTecknology> They tell you to make an empty directory and create a tarball over top of the one you just downloaded
<ajmitch> no, it doesn't
<ajmitch> it says to do that if there isn't a tarball
<MTecknology> oh..
 * MTecknology needs to learrn how to stop skimming text when not in class
<ajmitch> it could be clearer, but it's not a spelling error
<lifeless> what I hate is patch systems that wedge themselves
<MTecknology> !find dh_make
<ubottu> File dh_make found in cli-common-dev, debhelper, dh-make
<RAOF> lifeless: What would be an example of that?
<ajmitch> looks like we get to remove zope 2.x & plone from ubuntu
<ajmitch> which will drop one of the big rdepends of python2.4
<lifeless> RAOF: whatever evolution uses
<RAOF> :(
<lifeless> having done a build, pull from upstream, do another build, and it bitches
<lifeless> can't undo the patch, can't redo it, can't fix it.
<lifeless> arrgghh
<MTecknology> you guys should remove evolution :)
<MTecknology> it's one of the biggest reasons I build up from a cli install :P
<persia> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpatrick!
<persia> Could someone please gently get RAOF to fix his connection?
<ajmitch> A fine example of Australian telecommunications infrastructure, I'm sure :)
<persia> Quite likely.
<persia> But I don't know the magic codes to not only get him off the channel until he sorts it, but off the server (as it's flooding several channels)
<ajmitch> you'd probably need to convince some freenode staff of that
<lifeless> I'll see about ringing him
<persia> But I think they'd prefer to hear from delegated contacts, which is why I made the call above.
<persia> lifeless, Thanks.
<ajmitch> now that's service
<persia> The power of global initiatives with local implementations.
<marnold> question a package of mine just hit Debian as import freeze is not yet in effect do i need to do anything for a sync or does it just happen?
<ajmitch> it'll happen
<ajmitch> the 'autosync' isn't fully automatic, it's triggered by an archive admin
<marnold> it did
<marnold> that was fast
<ajmitch> so, no problem to worry about then?
<marnold> nope just wondering
<slytherin> can anyone please explain the meaning of << before version string when specifying dependencies?
<ajmitch> slytherin: 'strictly earlier' is the wording that policy uses
<slytherin> ajmitch: what does that mean in plain words?
<ajmitch> less than
<slytherin> and how is that different than simply <
<ajmitch> such as conflicts: foo (<< 1.2.3)
<ajmitch> "The deprecated forms < and > were used to mean earlier/later or equal, rather than strictly earlier/later, so they should not appear in new packages (though dpkg still supports them). "
<ajmitch> debian policy is a good resource for that
<ajmitch> They're effectively the same, but use << & >> where needed
<ajmitch> in the conflicts case that I used, it'd be better to use Breaks instead
<slytherin> ajmitch: thanks for help. I will use <<
<MTecknology> Anyone know who Luigi Gangitano is?
<persia> MTecknology, https://launchpad.net/people/ is a useful tool
<MTecknology> persia: except that it's just a blank profile
<persia> MTecknology, click on "Related Software"
<MTecknology> persia: but that doesn't tell me if he's ever in here :P
<MTecknology> makes me assume he is
<persia> With no direct uploads to Ubuntu, it's unlikely that this would be a good place to find such a person.
<persia> Of course, there are exceptions to that guideline.
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hiya iulian!
<mok0> Anyone here know about Tor networks?
<mok0> They've been advertised as safe for iraniasn to use but I don't think they are
<dholbach> mok0: I have no idea
<ttx> mok0: well it depends on definitions of "safe". Authorities should still be able to know they are going through a Tor network.
<ttx> since first-hop would be telling them that.
<mok0> ttx: All the gov. has to do is to operate an exit node
<mok0> ttx: and they can perform end-to-ebd traffic analysis
<mok0> end-to-end
<ttx> mok0: with enough noise that should prove quite difficult
<mok0> ttx: security through obscurity is not enough if you are in a completely  controlled society
<persia> mok0, It's all about balancing the cost of tracking vs. the cost of the information.
<persia> It's probably safe to use Tor for generic surfing to places popular throughout a given controlled area.
<persia> hard to identify a specific person if there is sufficient cover.
<ttx> mok0: also you can pick nodes
<persia> But that gets into game theory, etc.
<mok0> persia: in a situation where the life of the regime is threatned, I don't think cost matters
<ttx> (at least entry and exit ones)
<mok0> A swedish security guy was able to recover a large number of email addresses and passwords by running an exit node
<ttx> mok0: of course, exit nodes get unencrypted traffic. So if the encapsulated traffic is not encrypted, he would sure get vereything in it
<persia> mok0, Right.  Cost of data.  So, it may be sufficient for regular browsing.  It may not be sufficient for subversion.
<lifeless> thats more to do with unencrypted protocols beyond tor
<persia> For subversion, you want deep back-channel communication anyway.
<ttx> mok0: people don't necessarily get that tor doesn't protect you froim eavesdropping on exit nodes.
<ttx> mok0: that's what the swedish research shows.
<persia> (e.g. Have a set of servers that check the time via ntp over the net.  have them synchronised locally before checking.  Have the pattern of times that the servers check be meaningful)
<mok0> I am just concerned b/c iranians are told to use Tor networks on Twitter
<ttx> tor is a powerful in experienced hands. I wouldn't recommend it as the solution to all evil since you can get it wrong if you don't understand how it works.
<lifeless> mok0: they are also told to use http proxies, which are if anything less secure still
<ttx> s/powerful/powerful tool/
<mok0> lifeless: yes, but that is for surfing
<mok0> What the regime wants is to stop people from uploading videos and pictures
<mok0> Proxies allow peope to surf and get information INTO the country
<persia> So, it's possible to create a model where the information can be tracked by pattern matching.
<mok0> persia: yes
<persia> But as long as there are collaborators, it's harder.
<persia> For example, Alice uses tor to get her video into UbuntuOne.
<persia> She shares it to Bob.
<persia> Bob waits a random period of time (6-14 hours) before sending it in encrypted mail to Chris.
<persia> Chris dumps it on a torrent server.
<lifeless> if you want secure, freenet is better
<lifeless> its just abysmally slow
<persia> Malcom has a hard time matching Alice's activity to the torrent contents.
<mok0> persia: yes, that involves several steps
<mok0> But if the gov. is monitoring the network in general, and they have Tor exit nodes, they can find out who is sending videos to CNN for example
<mok0> Only if the Tor network is very very large, they may not get enough packages to do it
<persia> mok0, as does anything that is to be secure.  Any process is subject to tracking at the level of intelligence used to prepare it.  The smarter your automation, the smarter the cracking automation has to be.  Human-level automation tends to get expensive quickly (but look at Bletchley Park for a counterexample)
<mok0> persia: yes
<persia> Anyway, tor is a tool.  Potentially a useful tool.  Relying solely on tor is better than nothing, but perhaps not sufficient.
<mok0> In combination with encryption Tor might be rather safe
<mok0> lifeless: What is freenet?
<mok0> lifeless: n/m got it from Mr. Google
<mrooney> dholbach: morning dholbach, just watching your video on upgrading a package :)
<slytherin> bigon: ping
<slytherin> slomo: ï»¿can you please take a look at latest gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10 upload whenever you get time. I plan to do similar changes to -ugly-multiverse when updating the package. Also ugly-multiverse will have replaces on -bad-multiverse (<< 0.10.13) because of x264 plugin move.
<ziroday> Hi, are there any plans for pidgin 2.5.7 to be stuck in backports?
<slytherin> ziroday: the fix for yahoo should land in -updates but I don't know if anyone is actually working on it.
<ziroday> slytherin: ah okay, thanks!
<bigon> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> bigon: I was wondering why telepathy-idle is a suggests for empathy instead of recommends. We aren't shipping any other IRC client in default install, right? So if empathy is replacing pidgin then -idle should be recommends IMHO.
<bigon> good question, I'm not sure tp-idle (and empathy support) is 100% functional
<slytherin> I am not running empathy latest release. So can't really comment on that. If there are builds for hardy in PPA I will try.
<slomo> slytherin: as long as it builds and can be installed i'm fine with it ;)
<slomo> slytherin: or do you have any specific questions?
<slytherin> slomo: nothing specific
<slytherin> slomo: Just so you know, I plan to keep updating the -multiverse packages. :-)
<slomo> ok :)
<slomo> perfect, it seems nobody every touched the packages after me ;)
<slytherin> slomo: right, in fact ugly-multiverse is not updated as per upstream since hardy.
<slomo> :)
<slytherin> slomo: I just remembered one question. I enabled mplex plugin which uses mjpegtools library. The plugin is supposedly needed by brasero to create video DVD. Am I correct that this plugin should reside in bad-multiverse package (considering mjpegtools build-dep).
<slomo> slytherin: yes
<kirrus> Hi
<kirrus> Can someone have a look at patching this bug: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/387215 .. motu-swat?
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable (https://launchpad.net/bugs/387215/+text)
<kirrus> We've had at least 4 servers cracked using this bug so far, so I'd guess it's probably pretty critical, but so far no-one's got past www-data shell (matter of time)
<popey> !info phpmyadmin
<ubottu> phpmyadmin (source: phpmyadmin): MySQL web administration tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 4:3.1.2-1 (jaunty), package size 3527 kB, installed size 13132 kB
<popey> kirrus: I can't help but think that perhaps you should remove the /config/ directory which would work around this?
<kirrus> popey: we've been resetting permissions, so that the files aren't writable by www-data, but we have a fair few servers. It's far easier to deploy an update, than a chmod ;)
<popey> sounds like you need landscape ;)
<kirrus> popey: landscape costs too much money :(
<kirrus> the directors are against anything closed being deployed on our network.. and we have a majority of debian systems still, tho Ubuntu is slowly growing across the systems
<sakjur> kirrus: is it possible to access those servers with SSH?
<sakjur> You should be able to deploy a bash-script through SSH on those and then just patch it that way
<kirrus> sakjur: yes, some, all from our internal management box, but we've not got a way of automatically deploying scripts on them yet - the passwords are stored in the wrong place for us to just be able to easily script a change over ssh. In the process of preparing to deploy clusterjob...
<sakjur> I mean, if landscape is too expansive, that's maybe a good way to do simple tasks, it still takes a while, but well, well
<sakjur> kirrus: can't you use SSH-keys?
<kirrus> sakjur: Yes. But we're not allowed to ssh-key our management box to anything, because if that box is cracked (would be hard), the nefarious individual would have easy access to all the servers
<sakjur> kirrus: so you need to do things on place?
<sakjur> whoops
<sakjur> gotta go to my job
<sakjur> sorry
<porthose> huats: would you please renew my membership to Mentering Reception
<huats> porthose: done
<huats> so feels free to handle a few people :P
<porthose> thx on my todo list for today :)
<andrew_sayers> I've started looking for errors in debian/control files that were missed because of bug #391165.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 391165 in dpkg "Dpkg::Deps mishandles newlines in Build-Dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/391165
<andrew_sayers> I've found 32 so far, with more likely to come.  Is there anything I should know before I post 32 identical bug reports?
<andrew_sayers> (Well, each with minor changes to a template)
<Adri2000> bddebian: there is still the @GETTEXT_PACKAGE@.mo problem though, and I didn't manage to find a solution with my basic autotools skills. do you have any idea how this could be fixed?
<Laney> andrew_sayers: You should file these against Debian too if they affect there
<andrew_sayers> Laney: as well or instead?
<Laney> as well
<andrew_sayers> Phew :)
<andrew_sayers> Anyway, will do.
<Laney> and please make sure that dpkg bug gets fixed there too
<andrew_sayers> Okay, I'll file a report for that in Debian.
<Laney> thanks a lot
<bigon> slytherin: maybe if you could open a bug about empathy and tp-idle so I will not forget
<slytherin> bigon: I will log a bug. I was hoping I could try latest version. But there doesn't seem to be an easy way for me.
<bigon> slytherin: you cannot upgrade to jaunty?
<slytherin> bigon: I can not upgrade my office machine to jaunty right now. Busy with releases. And laptop at home is ibook (powerpc), so I will have to compile all the packages myself.
<slytherin> I mean build the packages.
<directhex> ?
<directhex> ppc is still built
<slytherin> directhex: the latest releases of empathy are either in karmic or in telepathy ppa.
<bigon> yeah all the packages are still built on ppc
<bigon> ppa build ppc
<slytherin> ppa does not support ppc, right?
<directhex> isn't it possible on a per-team basis to get ppc access on a ppa?
<directhex> i.e. ppa packages built on a main archive buildd
<bigon> slytherin: oh right my bad
<ScottK> It is possible to have a non-virtualized PPA.  I think there are three at the moment.
<ScottK> e.g. it's not easy to get.
<bddebian> Adri2000: Did you try gettextize?
 * slytherin feels nice for reporting FTBFS bugs in Debian. :-)
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/391529
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 391529 in wammu "on karmic alpha 2, wammu: Depends: python-xml but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> could somebody check, its a fix for wammu in it :)
<dupondje> as python-xml is removed, dependency is removed also, its not needed anymore
<slytherin> dupondje: does wammu work after removing dependency? I mean which python module does it use then for xml functions?
<dupondje> compiled it without
<dupondje> everything seem to work
<dupondje> mailed developper and he says: It was needed in some older python versions (something like 2.2, I'm
<dupondje> not sure)
<slytherin> dupondje: it may be only runtime dependency. Just make sure.
<dupondje> slytherin: there is a XML export function
<dupondje> works perfectly
<dupondje> without the python-xml :)
<slytherin> dupondje: cool
<dupondje> and if the developper says its not needed :) well :D
<slytherin> dupondje: you may want to add that additional information to the bug
<dupondje> done
<masterkernel> hi all, i need 2 reviewers for my package, kernelcheck (automated tool for custom compiling any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source)
<masterkernel> REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
 * maxb wonders why it's called kernelcheck if it doesn't check kernels, but builds them
<maxb> :-)
<loic-m> When everything from a previous merge has been done upstream and in Debian, and it can be converted to a sync, is it enough to request a sync and detail the reasons in the launchpad request?
<Hobbsee> loic-m: yes
<loic-m> Hobbsee: as far as keeping the ubuntu changelog, is that done automatically?
<RainCT> loic-m: Yes. You can read more about sync requests here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<RainCT> loic-m: And yes fixing the changelog is automatic
<Hobbsee> loic-m: in the package, or on launchpad?
<loic-m> Hobbsee: meaning when merges become sync, what happens to the previous Ubuntu entries in changelog - do we have to do something, or is it done automatically?
<Hobbsee> loic-m: you don't have to do anything.  We take debian's version of the package, so they are lost
<Hobbsee> (although launchpad will still tell you bits of them, and you can download old versions of the source that have them still)
<loic-m> ok, thanks a lot
<masterkernel> maxb: don't worry there's a reason. I had originally used the program to check the kernel in the master kernel thread with the latest one to see if i needed to update it (there's still evidence of that if you download v. 1.0)
<masterkernel> then somehow it evolved into compiling kernels. idk how
<RainCT> Hobbsee: Oh. May it be that "aptitude changelog" gets the changelogs from Launchpad and so includes entries from Ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> RainCT: i don't think it gets the changelog that is shown up on the launchpad souce packages page.
<loic-m> RainCT: that's what I thought too, since there might still be useful stuff in there
<Hobbsee> RainCT: (and i doubt it does, in reality.  Have you actually vound an example of this?)
<Hobbsee> loic-m: er, why would there be?  wouldn't everything be duplicated from upstream & debian?
<Hobbsee> loic-m: beyond timeline data, that is
<RainCT> bug numbers, for instance. or knowing who worked on it
<loic-m> Hobbsee: I tend to look at previous Ubuntu changelog entries to get an idea of who has worked on what in package when I need to ask questions ;)
<Hobbsee> RainCT: well, that entire branch of code gets overwritten, so, thus, no one from ubuntu did happen to work on the debian branch?
<Hobbsee> loic-m: right :)
<slytherin> loic-m: for syncs, use of requestsync is preffered. :-)
<Laney> loic-m: just use Launchpad for this info
<Hobbsee> RainCT: oh, aptitude changelog will grab it from changelogs.ubuntu.com, btw
<loic-m> Launchpad is slow...
<loic-m> slytherin: thanks, it's also faster ;)
<Laney> I have a quick search to open the source package page, so it's no slower than typing aptitude changelog
<RainCT> Laney: good idea, I've just set up on too (only had one for bugs so far)
<Laney> RainCT: nhandler posted some good ones a while ago
<Laney> I use pts and lp the most often
<bddebian> Adri2000: Is djplay upstream dead/unresponsive?
<mok0> sebner: Flightgear is now in the archive
<mok0> Go vote up my idea http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20362/
<ogra> mok0, already exists
<mok0> ogra: you mean the idea or the tracker
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+hwdb-submissions
<ogra> it will soon be possible to attach hwdb entries to bugs
<mok0> ogra: it's not _quite_ what I had in mind
<mok0> ogra: I don't see where the hardware is
<ogra> in the submission entries
<ogra> there is also a real DB thats not accessible yet
<ogra> but its in the works
<mok0> ogra: don't see it
<ogra> ?
<mok0> ogra: Each piece of hardware should be like a Bug, where you can have comments etc.
<ogra> right, thats what the database will have
<ogra> currently it collects the xml data and in parallel stores the items in a db ... atm only the xml files are accessible, but the db will get a frontend, so you can look up your intel98236 graphics card in the future there
<mok0> ogra, so those XML files are the raw data that will be parsed to make an entry for each component ?
<mok0> ogra, well, go an vote it up then :-)
<ogra> well, its already in the works :)
<ogra> not sure it needs extra votes
<mok0> ogra: heh ok, glad to hear it. If you guys need some input I'm available :-)
<ogra> mok0, cr3's team is working on that
<ogra> they also do checkbox (the collecting client)
<mok0> ogra: is there a team on lp for that=
<mok0> ?
<ogra> no idea, ask cr3 :)
<mok0> ogra, ok thanks!
<cr3> mok0: hi there, I'm trying to catchup the backlog... and I need coffee. one moment :)
<mok0> cr3: allrighty
<al-maisan> how do I figure out what package a particular file belongs to? Like '/bin/ls' for example?
<mok0> al-maisan: dpkg -S bin/ls
<mok0> al-maisan: but that only works for files installed on your system
<Laney> apt-file
<Laney> works for all afaik
<mok0> It does
<cr3> mok0: ok, so I finally caught up with the backlog. if you are speaking of the hardware database in launchpad, this is unfortunately not something I'm working on
<mok0> cr3: ah, ogra told me you were
<cr3> mok0: I'm sorry to have to bounce you around like this but abel is the one working on that
<cr3> mok0: I work on the commercial side of hardware testing, certification.canonical.com, but not on launchpad
<mok0> cr3: ok, thanks, I'll get in touch with him, then
<mok0> cr3: I just wrote up that Brainstorm entry a couple of days ago, I didn't know about the project
<mok0> cr3: so, I am intersted in hearing about it , and if there are things I can do to help
<cr3> mok0: what you mentionned in this channel sounds like this page: http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/
<mok0> cr3, yes, but within LP, so we could link bugs to it etc
<cr3> mok0: however, I don't agree with that kind of hardware database which contains subjective information about hardware apparently works with an arbitrary release of ubuntu
<clk> I'm just about to roll a new package, how far off is karmic? can I submit packages for inclusion into karmic at the moment? and when does jaunty go into feature freeze?
<mok0> cr3: there may be crashes in a program that only pops up with particular hardware
<cr3> mok0: I think hardware compatibility should be far more structured than bugs. there is an intrinsic difference between the two: bugs are transient whereas hardware sticks around for much longer
<mok0> cr3: and we have not good way of tracking that atm
<mok0> cr3: you have obviously thought a lot more about this than I have
<cr3> mok0: apport does a pretty good job of gathering as much information as possible when a crash happens
<mok0> cr3: right, but it's not directly visible to users or developers
<cr3> mok0: the only problem is that the apport information attached to a bug doesn't necessarily gets structured in such a way that it would be possible to correlate the crash to a particular piece of hardware, hence my obsession on structuring this information properly
<mok0> cr3: sounds right
<\sh> cr3: is there any way as a normal user to see the certified HW vendors from canonicals site?
<cr3> mok0: I may have thought about it a bit more, but I think we're both trying to scratch the same itch :)
<clk> Sorry I meant to ask > When is karmic going into feature freeze?
<cr3> \sh: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification
<mok0> clk the info is on the wiki somewhere
<clk> thanks mok0 i'll take a look
<cr3> mok0: man, that hardware in the wiki is a nightmare to manage, I really need to get back to the doc folks about that
<\sh> cr3: thx :) btw...did HP send you some blade examples? bl7000c enclosure and some bl460/465/480/485/495c blades? I wonder if ubuntu just works out of the box...actually I'll see that anyways next week ;)
<mok0> cr3, it's difficult to foresee the kind of workflow involving the hwdb + LP that would be useful to have
<cr3> \sh: no blades: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/list/?search=HP
<\sh> cr3: I read the list..that's why I asked, if they are trying to certify their money makers also for Ubuntu...
<cr3> mok0: you've actually put your finger on the problem: it is specifically because it is difficult to foresee that LP has been reluctant to introduce the hwdb too quickly.
<clk> one more question, if someone 'nominates' a package for release into a the next version of Ubuntu, does this just mean they would like it to be in the next version or does it mean something more significant?
<cr3> \sh: yeah, I hope we'll get to test blades too!
<\sh> cr3: what can I do to give you some infos about compatiblity of those blades...I'm going to start to deploy ubuntu (8.04 and 9.04) on those servers..I wonder if you would like to have some infos
<cr3> \sh: the best you could do is informally send the outcome of your testing to me on irc or by email
<cr3> \sh: if you could run checkbox-cli and submit the information to launchpad, that would also rock
<\sh> cr3: cool..will do that :)
<iulian> ttx: 'ey.  tomcat6 has just been uploaded this morning.  We can sync it next time with unstable.  What do you say?
<ttx> iulian: sounds like a plan. Will let you know if I find any objections in the meantime :)
<iulian> ttx: Excellent, that would be be great indeed :)
<iulian> s/be//
<mok0> cr3: thanks
 * mok0 was afk for a while
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/391529 <- sponsorship wanted :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 391529 in wammu "on karmic alpha 2, wammu: Depends: python-xml but it is not installable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<clk> I'm packaging a GUI used to interface with ghostscript, obviously this package wont work if ghost script is not installed, so should I make ghostscript a dependency or should I just assume anyone installing the gui package will already have ghostscript?
<azeem> clk: the former
<dstansby> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I'm having:
<clk> thanks azeem
<dstansby> # Regenrate make files using fpcmake.
<dstansby> fpcmake -r -Tall
<dstansby> Processing Makefile.fpc
<dstansby> Error: Target "go32v2", package "rtl" not found
<dstansby> make: *** [configure-stamp] Error 1
<dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
<dstansby> debuild: fatal error at line 1334:
<dstansby> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -S failed
<dstansby> That's the error message I'm getting :(
<azeem> dstansby: that's an upstream build system error/problem
<azeem> you will have to debug it
<dstansby> I'm trying to build a source package that's in the ubuntu repos
<azeem> dstansby: do you use pbuildert?
<azeem> pbuilder*
<dstansby> The command I'm using is 'debuild -S'
<azeem> are the Build-Depends installed?
<dstansby> I'll just check
<dstansby> azeem: It seems some of them weren't. I assumed that they were though, because in the past when I've tried to build without deps I've got an error message telling me which deps were missing
<dstansby> Thanks a lot, it's all working now :D
<azeem> you usually don't need (all) Build-Depends to build a source package (i.e. debuild -S)
<azeem> in this case, apparently some are needed
<al-maisan> hello geser, how are things?
<al-maisan> Can we have quick chat re. bug #389624?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389624 in opendchub "Sync opendchub 0.7.15-1.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389624
<clk> azeem, any idea what the postscript gui interface "section" would be in the the debian/control file?
<clk> whould I just put that as misc?
<clk> *would
<azeem> what toolkit?
<clk> azeem, any idea what the postscript gui interface "section" would be in the the debian/control file?
<clk> whould I just put that as misc?
<azeem> 17:55 < azeem> what toolkit?
<clk> sorry if I missed your reply azeem my wifi kept dropping
<azeem> 18:02 < azeem> 17:55 < azeem> what toolkit?
<cpl> is there an easy way to find out what "section" a package belongs to in the repo without looking at the debian/control file of the said package?
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ apt-cache showsrc vinagre | grep Section
<pochu> Section: gnome
<azeem> cpl: you can look at the package at packages.ubuntu.com
<cody-somerville> cpl, Can you elaborate on what you're trying to do?
<azeem> or apt-cache
<pochu> cpl: the control file may not be right anyway
<cody-somerville> cpl, As the value in the control file may be overriden in the repository
<cpl> azeem, I was looking at packages.ubuntu.com but I couldnt find the section name on the packages page
<pochu> cody-somerville: yeah, apt-cache will show the right one though :)
<cody-somerville> pochu, indeed
<cpl> any pointers on how I can use apt-cache to get the section name
<cpl> apt-cache search showpkg ghostscript brings up nothing
<cpl> wait
<cpl> nevermind
<cpl> I'm an idiot
<cpl> actually, I still can't find it
<azeem> cpl: what command are you running?
<cpl> apt-cache showpkg ghostscript
<azeem> who told you to rnu showpkg?
<azeem> run*
<cpl> no-one
<cpl> you said use apt-cache
<cpl> I wasn't sure exactly what to do so I looked at the documentation
<azeem> why don't you follow pochu's advice from above?
<cpl> That's what I though I was doing
<cpl> *thought
<azeem> did you compare the two command-lines?
<azeem> and/or read everything pochu said?
<cpl> good point, I didn't see the first thing he said
<cpl> thanks
<Adri2000> bddebian: I tried gettextize but I still have errors. upstream looks dead though the author sent a mail to the ml a few days ago saying she planned a release soon. I may ask her to update all that autotools stuff
<cpl> Does anyone have experience of the Aladdin Free Public Licence
<cpl> the FSF dont classify it as a true free license, looks like it's ok to distribute and modify the source as long as it's not resold, I assume that's suitable for the repo?
<ScottK> cpl: If it has a non-commercial clause it'll have to go in multiverse
<cpl> That's ok
<ScottK> cpl: I'm not familiar with the license, but if that's the only issue it's probably fine for multiverse.
<cpl> Reading through it, I don't see any other issues. Thanks ScottK
<bddebian> Adri2000: Yeah, I tried gettextize too and I even removed IT_PROG_INTLTOOL and got different results but still broken.  I already sent the issue to Melanie (the upstream author). :)
<Adri2000> bddebian: oh, ok. sent directly to her or on the ml?
<Adri2000> and when did you send it?
<bddebian> Adri2000: Directly to her and about 2 hours ago :)
<bddebian> Sorry, more precisely 3 hours and 15 minuts ago :)
<Adri2000> ok ok :) well tell me when you get an answer
<genii> Hello. Is there some place .deb pre/postinst pre/postrm scripts get cached and used other than perhaps /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.scriptname  ? I had an error in the postrm, manually fixed it there (/var/lib...postrm) which allowed removal. But then after install of the new package with the fix, it seems to be using the old version for some reason.
<\sh> grmpf...what was the url on LP for the NEW queue again?
<iulian> \sh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+queue
<ethana2> packaging the wizardpen 0.7 driver
<ethana2> It consists of some binary code and a couple .fdi files with a bunch of devices in them
<ethana2> Type of package: single binary, multiple binary, library, kernel module, kernel patch or cdbs?
<ethana2> It's for most non-wacom graphics tablets
<ethana2> I'm /thinking/ kernel module...
<ethana2> but the .fdi files aren't a kernel thing I don't think
<\sh> iulian: found it already, thx :)
<\sh> if nobody objects I'll take some universe merges from the top of the mom list...
<\sh> still 20 minutes to go for new software rollout..need to do some work
<ScottK> \sh: It's after DIF, so I think it's a free for all.
<\sh> ScottK: good .. let's see how many I can get removed from that list
<geser> DIF is already in effect?
<\sh> geser: tomorrow
<\sh> 25th
<ScottK> \sh: Right.  I was a day off.
<\sh> ScottK: I think a couple of hours don't matter ;)
<masterkernel> tomorrow? in that case, can i pay someone to review kernelcheck? ;) jk
<\sh> DIF == debian import freeze
<\sh> not feature freeze
<geser> masterkernel: DIF not FF
<masterkernel> *sponsor
<ebroder> Any motu-stu types around? I've got a few bugs that I've been trying to get somebody to look at for a few weeks now
<pochu> ebroder: stu?
<ebroder> Sorry - sru :)
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys, do you know if there is a way which packages are using a specific dependency???
<RoAkSoAx> s/way/way to know/
<ebroder> aptitude search ~Dpackage
<geser> RoAkSoAx: apt-cache rdepends
<RoAkSoAx> thanks geser ebroder  :)
<loic-m> Does anyone know a bit about handling outdated config.guess files? I'm reading /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz, but I end up with the new file also in the diff.gz as in-source patch
<loic-m> And the README doesn't suggest using a patch system
<ebroder> loic-m: cdbs will handle preserving the original for you
<loic-m> I'm copying the new config.guess/sub during the clean target
<ebroder> loic-m: That's the wrong target to do it in
<loic-m> ebroder: the package isn't using cdbs, I can't really change that
<ebroder> loic-m: clean doesn't always run before builds
<ebroder> loic-m: you want to do it in your configure target or whatever
<loic-m>  /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz advertises doing it during that target though.
<geser> try rm the old ones in clean and copy the ones from autotools-dev in configure or build
<geser> this should keep the diff.gz small
<loic-m> geser: even though the README says otherwise?
<ebroder> loic-m: ==geser. The .diff.gz can't track deleted files
<loic-m> ebroder, geser, thanks a lot
<geser> yes, therefore the deletion doesn't appear in the diff.gz
<ebroder> I honestly have no idea why the README would say to copy them in in the clean stage...
<loic-m> If I paste the file during the configure target, I have to do it before calling configure, don't I?
<ebroder> loic-m: Yes
<ethana2> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev libx11-dev libxext-dev xautomation xserver-xorg-dev libsysfs-dev
<ethana2> Does that mean that they're just not /installed/ or that they're not available at all?
<ebroder> ethana2: That they're not installed
<loic-m> thanks
<ethana2> ebroder: do I have to install them on my actual OS, or can I do that in pbuilder or something?
<geser> ethana2: inside your pbuilder is enough
<ebroder> ethana2: pbuilder should do that for you, though
<ethana2> I tried..
<ethana2> I'm going through the debian guide..
<geser> and?
<ethana2> so it doesn't have ubuntu stuff
<ethana2> this was dpkg-buildpackage that I treid
<ethana2> can I just throw a tar.gz at pbuilder?
<geser> did you pass any options to dpkg-buildpackage?
 * RoAkSoAx gives up on trying to fix an unmet dep :S
<geser> ethana2: you pass the .dsc to pbuilder
<geser> RoAkSoAx: which one?
<ethana2> geser: how do I get a .dsc again?
<RoAkSoAx> geser, trying to solve revelation http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28050618/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.revelation_0.4.11-4ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ebroder> ethana2: debuild -S
<geser> dpkg-buildpackage -S (you might need to install a subset of the build-depends) or debuild -S (which is nearly the same)
<RoAkSoAx> geser, in my pbuilder the unmet deps are this: libgdl-1-0: Depends: libgdl-1-common (= 2.26.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not installable
<ethana2> ah yes
<ethana2> ebroder: thanky'
<geser> RoAkSoAx: ah the python-gdl case :)
<RoAkSoAx> geser, yeah!! where libgdl-1-0 has been renamed to libgdl-1-2 python-gdl tries to install libgdl-1-0 instead of libgdl-1-2
<geser> RoAkSoAx: bug 389728
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389728 in gnome-python-extras "Uninstallable in Karmic due to bad dep on libgdl, FTBFS if rebuilt" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389728
<RoAkSoAx> geser, yes I was actually trying to fix that :)
<fabrice_sp> Hi. When building playonlinux in KArmic, it seems ${python:Depends} is substituted with python2.5. Any clue about what's happening?
<fabrice_sp> only python2.6 and python-support is installed during the build of the package
<geser> fabrice_sp: check the scripts, there is probably somewhere python2.5 set as interpreter
<ebroder> fabrice_sp: I think there are a couple of variables/files in the debian/ directory that can change the package to use 2.5
<fabrice_sp> thanks geser and ebroder: I'll check the debian files again (didn't found anything before)
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, can this be it: playonlinux-3.5$ grep -sr python2.5 *
<RoAkSoAx> python/tools/get_wineversions.py:#!/usr/bin/python2.5
<RoAkSoAx>  ??
<geser> if the file is included in the deb then it's probably it
<fabrice_sp> okkkk
<fabrice_sp> I'll patch the file, and see what happen, then. Thanks RoAkSoAx !
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, welcome :)
<geser> make it use /usr/bin/python and the dependency on python2.5 should be gone
<fabrice_sp> ok. Thanks again!
<cpl> I'm packaging something that needs qmake to be used before make, how do I go about this?
<ebroder> cpl: cdbs has a qmake class
<cpl> the packaging instructions on the wiki only really cover simplistic packages, alot of real world stuff seems to throw questions that the wiki doesnt answer
<cpl> ebroder, this is my first package
<cpl> ebroder, I'm not using cdbs
<cpl> I'm using debhelper
<cpl> the wiki says it's the most common
<ebroder> cpl: I can't help you, then. I've never written debhelper packages
<cpl> ok thanks
<pochu> cpl: look at real packages :)
<cpl> pochu, I have, but it seems lots of packages have so many little differences depending on how the devs want you to compile their app that there isn't really a standard
<cpl> If I could find another package that requires a qmake before install I think that would be good to look at
<cpl> even then the specifics will probably be too different to be helpful
<cpl> could I just do the qmake to create the makefile then package that?
<cpl> or would that be me editing things I'm not supposed too?
<cpl> maybe I could do the qmake and make it a diff/
<cpl> ?
<cpl> or patch
<Stupendoussteve> I believe running qmake would generally be done as part of the package compilation
<Stupendoussteve> and in debian/rules
<cpl> Stupendoussteve, I'll read up on how to edit the rules file in detail
<Stupendoussteve> cpl: Does qmake run instead of configure?
<cpl> Stupendoussteve, Yes
<cpl> it appears so
<Stupendoussteve> Should be easier to put it into the rules file then
<cpl> mkdir build && cd build && qmake ../activitydiary.pro
<cpl> from the install file ^
<cpl> So that's what needs to be done in debian/rules ?
<Stupendoussteve> Not their steps, but debian/rules usually has a call to the configure script, modifying it to use qmake instead shouldn't be too difficult
<Stupendoussteve> may take some trial and error to get it right though
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, geser : it worked! I'm submitting my debdiff to Ubuntu for sponsoring, and will forward it to Debian.
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, awesome! :)
<cpl> Thanks Stupendoussteve , I'll see what I can do
<Stupendoussteve> Make sure you have qmake in the build-depends as well
<cpl> yeah I do
<cpl> Stupendoussteve, can I use rules to make the dir that the install file says you need to make?
<cpl> or is that not something you should do in rules?
<Ampelbein> cpl: i have not read all the conversation, but you could look at qt-creator, qzion or qedje packaging. those are with a build-dep on qmake, maybe you can get a clue there?
<cpl> Amaranth, I'll take a look, the way this wants to be built seems overly specific though
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys do you know which package contains  include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/hlibrary.mk ?
<ebroder> RoAkSoAx: dpkg -S $FILE
<ebroder> Or if you don't have the package installed, `apt-file search $FIE`
<ebroder> *$FILE
<masterkernel> RoAkSoAx: haskell-devscripts in karmic
<fabrice_sp> haskell-devscripts
<fabrice_sp> too late ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> but not in Jaunty right?
<fabrice_sp> nop
<masterkernel> nope
<fabrice_sp> only karmic
<fabrice_sp> (http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=karmic&searchon=contents&keywords=hlibrary.mk)
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks masterkernel fabrice_sp
<masterkernel> when is feature freeze for karmic?
<RoAkSoAx> masterkernel, I believe it's around 27 of August
<masterkernel> ok thanks
<fabrice_sp> masterkernel, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
<yurii> Hi- is there a .pdf guide for packaging?
<pochu> there's the packaging-guide in pdf
<yurii> a URL for it?
<pochu> or the Debian's new maintainers guide
<pochu> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<yurii> a .pdf version
<yurii> not web
<cpl> I cant figure out what gtk2.6 is
<cpl> I cant find a package even close to that name
<pochu> yurii: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.en.pdf
<cpl> must mean libgtk2.0-0
<pochu> yurii: and https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/pdf/ubuntu/C/packagingguide.pdf
<pochu> but this one is outdated
<nhandler> I have the complete packaging guide in docbook format if you are interested in converting that to pdf
<cpl> can anyone tell what exactly this means?> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: autotools-dev
<nhandler> cpl: Install autotools-dev
<cpl> how is that unmet? I'm asking for it via the Build-Depends
<Ampelbein> cpl: you don't have the package autotools-dev installed
<cpl> in debian/control
<nhandler> cpl: How are you building the package?
<cpl> debuild
<Ampelbein> cpl: then you must install the build-deps manually.
<cpl> Amaranth, then what's the point of Build-Depends ?
<Ampelbein> cpl: it defines what packages are needed to build the package. (my name is ampelbein, btw)
<cpl> if that doesnt pull the packages for me, how are end users going to use the package?
<Ampelbein> cpl: these are the dependencies needed to build, either resolved via pbuilder-satisfydepends or by manually installing them.
<bddebian> Adri2000: She responded.  She
<masterkernel> cpl, build-depends are different from depends
<bddebian> will put the patches upstream before the new release but could use some help on the translation stuff :(
<Ampelbein> cpl: end users usually don't build packages themselfs. btw: if the package is already in the repositories, a 'sudo apt-get build-dep <foo>' installs the needed packages to build.
<cpl> Ampelbein, ok, assuming autotools-dev was never automagically places on the Build-Depends line by dh_make, how would I of known I need it?
<cpl> at compile time, I get no missin dep error when I remove it from the Build-Depends line
<Ampelbein> cpl: if your package doesn't use autotools you don't need the -dev package.
<Ampelbein> cpl: autotools is the aclocal, automake, autoconf stuff
<cpl> Ampelbein, How would i find out
<cpl> dh_make entered it into the control fine automatically
<cpl> *file
<cpl> although compilation errors dont mention the dependency
<cpl> I now realise I had Build-Depends and depends mixed up by the way
<Ampelbein> cpl: sorry, got a disconnect.
<cpl> Ampelbein, How would i find out
<cpl> dh_make entered it into the control fine automatically
<cpl> although compilation errors dont mention the dependency
<cpl> I now realise I had Build-Depends and depends mixed up by the way
<Ampelbein> cpl: you are supposed to check the build-depends manually. it depends on the software you are trying to package what you need.
<cpl> How is this done manually?
<Ampelbein> cpl: check what libraries the software links to, which programs are being called in the makefile. most of the time, the authors have a INSTALL file which lists the software needed.
<cpl> yeah, thing is, none of those places list this as a dependency
<cpl> so why would dh_make put it in the debian/control file?
<Ampelbein> cpl: because the author of dh_make thought it would be a good idea to have it listed by default?
<azeem> cpl: because somebody convinced the dh_make guy that this is important
<azeem> I have an idea who it was
<Ampelbein> cpl: autotools are widely used.
<cpl> Ampelbein, well, this is the only package job I have looked at where dh_make has added this to the control file
<azeem> the rationale is probably that for new ports, config.guess is outdated, so better have it copied over by dh_make
<cpl> anyway, I'll roll with this and see how it goes
<azeem> cpl: maybe it checks the timestamp
<cpl> I just hate it when a tool does something I cant explain
<azeem> and if it decides the shipped config.guess copy is too old, does the autotools-dev stuff
<azeem> no diea
<azeem> idea*
<Ampelbein> cpl: azeem just made me think: your package may build on i386 or amd64 but perhaps not on ia64 or lpia because config.guess is outdated. so you may not need the package to build on your architecture, you may still need it on others.
<azeem> well
<azeem> lpia doesn't need a special config.guess I think
<azeem> and ia64 has been supported since 2000 or so
<cpl> Yeah I understand why it might be needed, I'm just confused as to why dh_make added the dep, I've seen dh_make do that before
<azeem> the last time this was problematic was for the Debian GNU/kFreeBSD port I think
<azeem> and some more obscure ports
<cpl> I've never seen
<cpl> **
<azeem> cpl: dh_make isn't really authorative
<cpl> also turns out this app has deps that aren't even listed in INSTALL
<cpl> lol
<Ampelbein> azeem: yeah, i just could not remember a more fitting architecture. i wanted to simply give an explanation.
<azeem> it makes some weird choices sometimes; e.g. I usually throw away its debian/rules
<azeem> cpl: INSTALL usually only contains generic installation instructions
<azeem> look at configure.{in,ac} or README for better information
<cpl> Gotta love how vague some developers are within the documentation
<ajmitch> many developers will just use the standard boilerplate for that stuff
<ajmitch> documentation isn't as fun to update
<cpl> checking for flex... no
<cpl> checking for lex... no
<cpl> You need the 'flex' package
<cpl> make: *** [config.status] Error 1
<cpl> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libglade-2.0, libgalde2-dev, xorg-dev, flex
<cpl> I know I need flex, that's why it's on the Depends line....................
<ajmitch> Build-Depends
<cpl> I see
<ajmitch> stuff that's required to build the package goes into Build-Depends (and Build-Depends-Indep)
<cpl> I didn't know it was needed to build the package
<cpl> I thougt it was needed to compile the app
<ajmitch> you do now
<azeem> cpl: flex is a build tool
<azeem> not a runtime thing
<cpl> *thought
<cpl> ok
<ajmitch> building the package is compiling the ap
<azeem> cpl: what do you think building the package entails
<ajmitch> s/ap/app/
<azeem> cpl: and remove those libraries and -dev packages from Depends
<cpl> azeem, so where do I specify what dependencies the user needs?
<cpl> for aptitude
<azeem> cpl: in Depends
<azeem> but the libraries are auto-calculated
<cpl> ?
<azeem> what is unclear?
<cpl> yes
<cpl> the wiki is no where near detailed enough about this
<azeem> for more details, see the Debian policy
<cpl> I though I had to tell aptitude, via debian control, what the dependencies are
<azeem> btw, xorg-dev is probably wrong in Build-Depends as well; you should specify the X libraries (e.g. libx11-6)
<azeem> cpl: shared libraries can be much better figured out dynamically
<azeem> see man dpkg-shlibdeps
<cpl> So I shouldnt mention anything to do with dependencies?
<azeem> you should review the Depends: line after package build and add anything which is missing, and rebuild
<cpl> So, if the package install fails due to a missing dependency, then and only then should I add that dependency to the control file?
<azeem> I don't think I said that
<cpl> I dont understand how I would review the depends
<Ampelbein> cpl: it won't fail to install if you missed a dependency. the reason is that the depends: line says apt, what packages are needed to install. you have to see if the application works correctly.
<azeem> by looking at them
<cpl> Ampelbein, THe last time I built this package I didnt tell control that it needed gtk+-2.0 and it failed to install on any machine except mine
<cpl> I dont get why this is so hard for me to understand
<azeem> cpl: your control file was wrong then
<azeem> and/or your debian/rules
<azeem> because this kinda stuff is exactly what is being auto-detected
<cpl> Is there a more concise set of documentation for this process anywhere?
<azeem> 23:20 < azeem> see man dpkg-shlibdeps
<cpl> yes, those are docs for one utility
<azeem> cpl: generally, if you don't mess around with the dh_make generated rules/depends, it should just work
<cpl> that doesn explain the whole packagine process
<azeem> cpl: it's not something you can learn in 10 minutes
<Ampelbein> cpl: thats what the packaging guide is for.
<cpl> cpl, I know it's not, I've been looking at the wiki on and off for a while now
<cpl> it just seems to miss lots if important info
<azeem> is the wiki the same as the packaging guide?
<cpl> yes
<Ampelbein> cpl: see also the debian new maintainers guide, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<cpl> are the debiand docs directly transferable to ubuntu?
<cpl> *debian
<ajmitch> for the most part, yes
<azeem> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete looks pretty useful to me
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys, I'm working on a python 2.6 transition. Should the I made changes in aclocal.m4 and configure better be in a patch or should I just apply them directly to those files?
<ajmitch> probably in a patch, but get the package fixed in debian as well if it's not already
<cpl> azeem, it is useful, but after reading it I still wasn't sure exactly what was happening in certain parts of the process
<azeem> cpl: certainly most of the above mistakes are explained there
<cpl> azeem, if that were true I wouldnt of messed the depends line up
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch, ok thanks
<cpl> it doesnt say anything about "auto calculation"
<azeem> cpl: maybe you skipped that part
<cpl> no
<cpl> it doesnt tell me what the build process is actually doing
<azeem> "Depends: The list of packages that the binary package depends on for functionality. For hello, we see ${shlibs:Depends}, which is a variable that is used by dpkg-shlibdeps to add the shared library packages needed by the binaries to Depends:. See the dpkg-source(1) and dpkg-shlibdeps(1) man page for more information. "
<cpl> yeah, that really doesnt go into enoguh depth
<cpl> for someone that has never dealth with this before
<cpl> and the man pages
<azeem> it doesn't say you should add build depends there, though
<cpl> The list of packages that the binary package depends on for functionality
<cpl> to me that says you should
<azeem> "binary"
<cpl> yes
<cpl> the build process is making a binary package
<azeem> and you install the binary package
<cpl> yes
<cpl> But
<azeem> so you get the binary package as a result of the build process
<cpl> rite, so it's only logical to conclude that you put your deps on that line
<cpl> so the binary package will call for them via the package manager
<cpl> when you are installing
<azeem> right
<azeem> so what does that have to do with building?
<cpl> nothing, it doesnt say it does
<azeem> why do you need the X headers to install your binary package?
<cpl> but it does say you shoudl list dependencies
<cpl> which is what I did
<cpl> azeem, I dont know, that what INSTALL says
<cpl> *that's
<cpl> INSTALL says you need xorg-devel
<cpl> which is now known as xorg-dev
<azeem> the INSTALL is the source-compile-install documentation
<cpl> yes, and I'm compiling the source into the package
<cpl> actually
<cpl> I see your point
<cpl> damn
<cpl> If I'm making these mistakes via the documention I'll be very surprised if other less persistent people haven't, and just given up
<azeem> cpl: well, you're certainly welcome to provide feedback on the packaging guide I guess
<azeem> (though I have nothing to do with it)
<cpl> When I've got some experience under my belt I certainly will
<azeem> maybe you are right, and it should start off with an explanation of terms - what is a binary, what is a source package, how do you build a binary from a source package
<cpl> I think an top down explanation of the process would of helped
<cpl> then specific details and processes afterwards
<azeem> it's difficult, a lot of people are not interested in the details and just want a black box that provides them with a working .deb
<ripps> Is there anybody here with a good understanding of notify-osd? I'm trying to help Qball, the developer of gmpc, to get his libnotify plugin to properly display album images in the notify-osd popups.
<cpl> azeem, thank you very much, I know have the package built
<cpl> would you say the best way to keep my chroot clean is to rm it after every package job?
<cpl> I dont like the idea of devel packages laying around that I dont need anymore
<ajmitch> that's why pbuilder or sbuild is usually suggested for building
<ajmitch> pbuilder unpacks a tarball for the chroot for each build & cleans it up afterwards
<cpl> I looked into pbuilder, the packaging guide starts off by getting you to install it
<cpl> but then it doesnt use it
<cpl> So i set up a chroot instead
<cpl> I'll have to find some decent documentation for pbuilder
<cpl> As I have no idea how to do anything within it once i've installed it
<cpl> and created a distro with it
<ajmitch> once it's setup, it's mostly as case of sudo pbuilder build foo_1.2.3-4.dsc
<cpl> got the package working
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys do you know if the requestsync script is buggy or something?
<cpl> now I have to go back and sort the copyright details out
<cpl> haha, that should be fun
<RoAkSoAx> it shows me this error: IOError: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.
<ajmitch> probably the most annoying part of it all
<ajmitch> RoAkSoAx: and have you managed your credentials for requestsync? :)
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch, 1. I don't know what that means and 2. I was request syncs couple of weeks ago and did not have any issues
<RoAkSoAx> never mind I missed a -s
<ajmitch> I was about to ask if you read the manpage as it said
<ajmitch> because that's been requestsync's behaviour for a little while now
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch, yeah well in the help says that the -s option is optional. however it showed me that message (with python errors) if I didn't use that option... so I just used it and was ok
<RoAkSoAx> any python packager expert around?
<Ampelbein> RoAkSoAx: just ask you question, maybe someone can help.
<RainCT> RoAkSoAx: Just ask. If you get no answer here you can also try in #debian-python on OFTC.
<RoAkSoAx> well I'm trying to merge sugar-hulahop, and I'm adding support for python2.6 and I just would like someone to review my patch to see if the changes that I've done are the right thing to do. Here is my patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/203192/
<RainCT> RoAkSoAx: looks good to me, if it works
<pochu> huh
<pochu> isn't aclocal.m4 autogenerated?
<pochu> you should likely autoconf the page
<pochu> or autoreconf
<pochu> or autohell :)
<pochu> or aclocal even
<RoAkSoAx> RainCT, thanks.
<RoAkSoAx> pochu, so I should do autoreconf ? any guide that I can follow?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-25
<pochu> RoAkSoAx: I'm no autoreconf expert...
<pochu> 'autoreconf -fiv' may be a start
<pochu> or you may just need to rerun aclocal
<RoAkSoAx> pochu, Ok. Well I'm just trying by doing: aclocal and it creates the aclocal.m4 file
<RoAkSoAx> OK so, I've run aclocal and it generates an aclocal.m4 file that does not include the changes I need to have python2.6 support, so should I just summit my patch?
<Ampelbein> RoAkSoAx: was there an error displayed when running aclocal?
<RoAkSoAx> Ampelbein, aclocal: configure.ac: 27: macro `AM_CHECK_PYTHON_HEADERS' not found in library
<Ampelbein> RoAkSoAx: sounds like that is the problem? (Disclaimer: I don't know it) ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> Ampelbein, not actually, I've deleted that line just to test and the same thing
<RoAkSoAx> well the changes in the aclocal file are actually changing for example from site-packages to *-packages and adding python2.6 to the list of interpreters, but it's not doing that automatically, so that's why I made manual changes since those changes are required to add support for python2.6
<maco> did dh_make go away?
<maco> i have at least 50 other dh_* commands, but no dh_make
<azeem> it's in its own package
<maco> did it used to be part of the debhelper package?
<azeem> no
<ajmitch> as far as I know, it's always been in dh-make
<maco> oh. alrighty
<nhandler> Packaging Training session about pbuilder in #ubuntu-classroom in 7 minutes
<james_w> it seems that requestsync over mail no longer does the sponsorship check
<RoAkSoAx> james_w, what error does it shows you?
<james_w> none
<RoAkSoAx> so what seems to be the problem then cuz I've also had some issues with it earlier today
<directhex> jjam
<directhex> james_w, it's lacked appropriate sponsorship checks (i.e. motu can requestsync directly to main without sponsorship) for a while
<Ampelbein> james_w: i just tried requestsync and it tells me that i need sponsorship. the resulting mail has "status new" and subscribe "ubuntu-universe/main-sponsors" (whichever is appropriate)
<Ampelbein> james_w: for universe: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203269/
<Ampelbein> james_w: for main: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203270/
<james_w> hey
<james_w> sorry, phone call
<james_w> I'm seeing quite a few bugs subscribe ubuntu-archive directly
<james_w> the common theme is that they are filed by mail
<ajmitch> james_w: I'm guessing that they're all filed by MOTUs, if it's the bug that directhex was referring to?
<james_w> nope, by others
<ajmitch> hm
 * ajmitch can't easily test that
 * directhex sponsors ajmitch for effort
<ajmitch> directhex: sure, I'll setup another identity & apply for MOTU then :)
<directhex> you should be part of debian front desk. even more useful!
<ajmitch> still trying to read through that thread on -project
<ajmitch> my mind is melting
<directhex> ?
<ajmitch> the thread about DAM & front desk
<ajmitch> it's a long read
<Ampelbein> james_w: were those reports filed before May 23rd? (or shortly thereafter). the check for sponsoring was changed with version 0.74
<james_w> there were some before
<james_w> some today, but I don't know what version they were using
<directhex> nhandler, i get home from work at ~1810. day of the week doesn't bother me
<directhex> nhandler, i can do a session from work as a general "probably" i.e. if a cluster explodes, i need to cancel with 0 notice
<Ampelbein> james_w: just tried with version 0.73, it fails to detect i need sponsoring: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203273/
<directhex> nhandler, otherwise i need to limit ~1810 as a minimum start time
<Ampelbein> james_w: so i guess that there's the problem and 0.74 should go to jaunty-backports as well.
<nhandler> directhex: It is up to you when you want to do the session.
 * ajmitch isn't quite qualified for those packaging sessions
<nhandler> lol ajmitch
<james_w> Ampelbein: thanks for checking
<ajmitch> I need to catch up on the latest toys
<Ampelbein> james_w: you're welcome.
<ajmitch> like most of the contents of ubuntu-dev-tools which I've never used :)
 * nhandler needs to finish looking through devscripts
<ajmitch> devscripts is fine, it hasn't changed much in the last few years
<directhex> nhandler, i would be happy with a 1830 session - can you please send me an e-mail reminder? i'm filled with free memory-destroying vendor-paid alcohol
<ajmitch> directhex: what would you teach?
<nhandler> ajmitch: True, but I still haven't looked at all of the tools. I'm looking at it now since it is a Debian NM question
<nhandler> directhex: So you want to lead a session on July 16th at 18:30, correct? Are you going to cut the session short or simply go until 19:30?
<directhex> ajmitch, truth, justice, and the $NATIONALiTY way
<nhandler> james_w: I hope you don't mind me doing a little session scheduling for July
<directhex> nhandler, i'd go until 19:30. actually, I'm on BST, so subtract 1 hour from the above? or am i totally lost in timexones...
<james_w> nhandler: of course not :-)
 * james_w hugs nhandler 
<nhandler> directhex: Isn't BST UTC+1 right now?
<directhex> nhandler, yes
<nhandler> james_w: Also, at the session earlier today, they expressed an interest in a python packaging session to go along with the java one we had and the upcoming perl one
 * ajmitch is glad to be in a nice sane timezone
<directhex> i'm extra confused as i'm in europe/berlin timezone to0day
<nhandler> directhex: So 18:30 UTC would be 19:30 BST
<james_w> nhandler: excellent
<ajmitch> nhandler: what else do you have on the books?
<directhex> nhandler, okay, so... a 1800 utc session is more than fine then.
<nhandler> directhex: Great. Do you have a title for your session?
<directhex> nhandler, should i blame the alcohol, or my stupid understanding of timezones?
<nhandler> ajmitch: The only currently scheduled session other than the one directhex will give is the one the pkg-perl team is doing
<nhandler> There are some ideas for future sessions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
<directhex> nhandler, try for "Mono packaging: quick, easy, and awesome"
<directhex> nhandler, but PLEASE email me a reminder. i'll forget otherwise
<directhex> for this i blka
<directhex> blame the booze
<nhandler> directhex: Ok, thanks a lot. I'll take care of updating the necessary schedules. It will be on the Fridge, but I will also email you ;)
<directhex> thanks!
<directhex> now, it's 25 to 4am. bedtime!
<nhandler> Night directhex, and thank you
<vorian> nhandler: you are teaching teh pbuilder pwn eh?
<ajmitch> vorian: he taught, and we were enlightened
<vorian> shucks
<nhandler> vorian: I linked to the Ninja wiki and hooks
<vorian> traitor
 * ajmitch wonders how that is traitorous
 * vorian is medicated atm, so pardon crazy
<ajmitch> this isn't you normally?
<vorian> heh, good point
<ajmitch> this channel attracts crazy
<vorian> the importatnt thing is if nhandler was able to recruit anyone over to the darkside
<nhandler> Hey, who are you calling crazy, crazy?
<nhandler> vorian: Quintasan expressed an interest in packaging the core KDE stuff
<vorian> fantastic
 * ajmitch hasn't been seduced by the dark side yet
<vorian> we really should get a extras type team together to look after the non-core stuff a bit closer
<vorian> nhandler: though art missing from a channel
<qiyong> what's the differences b/w syslog and messages from /var/log ?
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys what is the difference between "dh_installchangelogs -i" and "dh_installchangelogs -i Changelog" in debian/rules?
<nellery> RoAkSoAx: the Changelog is just specifying the name of the upstream changelog. The -i is unrelated to this, it specifies to act on indep architectures
<nellery> the -i option is specified in the debhelper manpage I think
<RoAkSoAx> nellery, k thanks, will take a look at it :)
<nellery> there's just no option necessary to specify where the upstream changelog is
<RoAkSoAx> nellery, ok thanks :). Now, should we remove "only in patch2: unchanged:" from debdiff's ?
<StevenK> RoAkSoAx: diff will ignore those lines, so you should be okay
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks StevenK :)
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> nhandler: thanks for that great packaging training session!
<dholbach> who wants to give another session at any of the open dates on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training ?
<fabrice_sp> Good mornibg dholbach ! You scared everybody asking for a trainer ;-)
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> what fun stuff do you have for us today? :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: I didn't know I was the entertainer for this place :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: how about doing some sponsoring or giving a session at any of the open dates on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training ?
<ajmitch> you liven the place up
<ajmitch> yeah, I was talking to nhandler about what he wanted for that earlier
<dholbach> there's a lot of requests on the page :)
<ajmitch> & I have the sponsoring list open, don't worry :)
<dholbach> yooohooooo!
<dholbach> :)(
<ajmitch> 06:00 UTC is about the only timeslot there that'd be suitable for me I think
<ajmitch> of the requests there, maybe the one of packaging a php web app, however I'd probably need a fair bit of time to prepare something suitable, because they can be downright evil :)
<dholbach> sounds great
<dholbach> it's completely fine if you just prepare ... say ... 15 minutes of hands-on session and just keep on answering questions
<ajmitch> web apps that require the installation pages to have write access to the directory all the code is in make me cry a bit
<ajmitch> sure
<dholbach> yeah, I think I know what you mean :)
 * ajmitch had that issue recently with silverstripe
<ajmitch> plus other issues regarding licensing which are a little harder to solve
<dholbach> plus the usual bundling of "packages"
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> besides that, I have a php5 merge to redo now
<dholbach> asomething, bigkevmcd and I are looking into packaging civicrm which has a lot of these problems
<dholbach> ok... enjoy
 * dholbach will take the dog for a walk
<ajmitch> see you in a bit :)
<didrocks> DktrKranz: Hi Luca, are you there for a python 2.6 transition question ? :)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: sure, but I'm taken with some things at work, so I could lag a bit
<didrocks> DktrKranz: no pb :) I'm trying to merge planner which uses pysupport. Nothing special so, I updated .install files but pkgbinarymangler hates me because of files in site-packages... I tried to include /usr/share/python/python.mk without any success. The rules file is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203412/
<DktrKranz> didrocks: any *.install files hard-coding site-packages?
<didrocks> DktrKranz: no, they all have *-packages. Do you want the source package?
<DktrKranz> didrocks: that would help
<didrocks> DktrKranz: dget http://www.didrocks.fr/temp/planner_0.14.4-1ubuntu1.dsc (no hurry, when you have some time to take a look at it :))
<DktrKranz> didrocks: testbuilding
<didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks :)
<DktrKranz> didrocks: mmh, it seems a cdbs bug, but I'll dig it deeper
<didrocks> DktrKranz: ok, that's what I thought (python stack seems to be broken: if I try to build the current package, I got the same behavior)
<DktrKranz> didrocks:
<DktrKranz> checking for python version... 2.6
<DktrKranz> checking for python platform... linux2
<DktrKranz> checking for python script directory... ${prefix}/lib/python2.6/site-packages
<DktrKranz> checking for python extension module directory... ${exec_prefix}/lib/python2.6/site-packages
<didrocks> DktrKranz: in the configure traces, yes. I'm currently seeing that. I thought that adding /usr/share/python/python.mk will change the behavior
<DktrKranz> didrocks: what about running autoconf? it's hardcoded in configure, recreating it would have some good, I'll try it
<didrocks> DktrKranz: oh, good idea
<DktrKranz> didrocks: that doesn't work, it gets overwritten each time :/
<DktrKranz> didrocks: see debian #524176
<ubottu> Debian bug 524176 in automake1.10 "AM_PATH_PYTHON should honor python's idea about the site directory" [Unknown,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/524176
<lesshaste> hi all
<lesshaste> I have been told to enable boot logging and post the output ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/389930 ) but this feature has not worked for ages and does nothing in jaunty.  Do they just mean /var/log/dmesg ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 389930 in grub "grub menu skipped after shutdown" [Low,New]
<lesshaste> I really can't see how a dmesg output could help as it never says anything about grub
<didrocks> DktrKranz: good catch :)
<lesshaste>  any ideas?
<DktrKranz> didrocks: it has been implemented in Ubuntu already, just I've no enough automake knowledge to understand its logic
<DktrKranz> e.g. if there's any AC_* variable to set
<didrocks> DktrKranz: I will ask doko for it, though
<didrocks> DktrKranz: thanks a lot for your help :)
<slytherin> lesshaste: What do you mean by bootlogging? Does it have anything to do with bootchart?
<doko> didrocks, DktrKranz: you need to regenerate the aclocal.m4/configure
<lesshaste> slytherin, no.. I mean bootlogd and /var/log/boot.. see the bug report request by Scoott
<lesshaste> Scott H
<didrocks> doko: so, autoreconf shoud do the trick?
<doko> yes
 * didrocks testing it
<DktrKranz> didrocks: there seems working good
<DktrKranz> *here
<ripps> Hey, I need a expert MOTU's help, I'm creating an alternative mpd package that runs in the userspace, but if someone has had mpd installed before hand, it's /etc/mpd.conf will interfere. What's the proper way of going about replacing it. I don't think I should just straight out delete it without asking the user
<didrocks> Indeed, it's working. Thanks DktrKranz and doko :)
<Laney> ripps:  you can ask a question with debconf
<Laney> or move it to another file and show the user a prompt saying what you did
<ripps> Laney: any good examples of debconf?
<Laney> hmm, not sure
<Laney> I think exim uses it and maybe mrtg
<ripps> Laney: I see bunch of packages when upgrading ubuntu ask what I want to do with old configs, whether I want to replace, keep, or merge them. How can I get that?
<Laney> that's just dpkg conffile handling
<Laney> google around for dpkg conffile
<jpds> ripps: That has nothing to do with two separate packages sharing the same configuration file lcation tho.
<Laney> yeah sorry
<ripps> Hmm... maybe ucf can help...
<geser> a package should not modify a config file from an other package
<c_korn> hm, what package is missing to make ld happy? "ld: cannot find -lfb" I tried the xserver-xorg-core package.
<geser> does it happen during linking?
<c_korn> yes, http://pastebin.com/d156b2a1f
<c_korn> hm, maybe this fb lib is some library from the freebasic compiler
<geser> that would be my guess too
<c_korn> ah, it is in /usr/lib/freebasic/linux/libfb.a so I have to move it to /usr/lob
<c_korn> *lib
<geser> no, better add -L/usr/lib/freebasic/linux to the linker call/flags
<mok0> I lost my wireless (proprietary) broadcom driver in the last kernel upgrade... now I can't get it back... :-(
<geser> the pastebin shows that it tries the right thing but uses /usr/local/lib/... instead of /usr/lib/...
<slytherin> c_korn: fb could be frame buffer as well.
<slytherin> mok0: which chipset?
<mok0> slythering bmc4312
<slytherin> mok0: Does it require binary only firmware? And did you try installing bcmwl package?
<mok0> slytherin: When I installed jaunty, I just had to activate the restricted driver in jocket
<slytherin> mok0: So you are on karmic now?
<mok0> slytherin: apt-cache doesn't know it
<mok0> slytherin: no, jaunty
<mok0> slytherin: I have to get video-drivers from ~ubuntu-mobile to get full resolution
<mok0> slytherin: they don't have karmic yet
<slytherin> mok0: Then you probably lost only firmware, although it should not happen. See if jockey helps you. If not try installing b43-fwcutter.
<mok0> slytherin: jockey has nothing in the list .... it did b4 the upgrade
<slytherin> mok0: paste the output of dmesg on pastebin
<mok0> slytherin: uhm... the machine is not on the net :-)
<mok0> slytherin: I'm on my workstation now
<mok0> slytherin: I can't get wire-net where I am
<slytherin> mok0: Ok. See if you see any firmware loading problems in dmesg output. Search for b43
<mok0> slytherin: nothing there
<slytherin> mok0: check if 'lsmod |grep b43' shows anything.
<mok0> slytherin: nothing
<slytherin> mok0: Try 'sudo modprobe b43' and then check dmesg output.
<mok0> slytherin: the drivers are not there, and are also blacklisted
<mok0> ah
<mok0> slytherin: b43 loaded now
<slytherin> mok0: why is the driver blacklisted?
<mok0> slytherin: by default I guess... I commented-out b43
<mok0> Still no drivers in jockey, thoug
<slytherin> mok0: no it is not blacklisted by default
<mok0> slytherin: I never touched that file before
<slytherin> mok0: Then your chipset probably needs other driver.
<mok0> slytherin: I guess...
<mok0> the file "blacklist-bcm43xx" is not a part of any package
<mok0> so must be generated in config step
<juli_> Hello MOTUs, could you please advise. I want to package Cobertura lib. Currently 1.9.1 release is available but I need Cobertura 1.9. Is it allowed to package 1.9 which is tested and stable enough instead of 1.9.1?
<slytherin> mok0: I am guessing b43 does not support your chipset.
<slytherin> mok0: in any case, after loading the module, did you check if any wireless connections show up in network manager?
<mok0> slytherin: probably not... the problem is I don't know what driver it was running before
<geser> juli_: sure
<slytherin> juli_: Sure. if 1.9.1 is kind of alpha/beta then it is recommended to package lower but stable version.
<mok0> slytherin: nope nothing
<mok0> slytherin: could be a regression on the kernel
<mok0> It worked right after primary install
<juli_> sladen, 1.9.1 is released 4 months ago and it  pretends to be final. But I'm not sure about it since some tests fail for me.
<mok0> I stayed with 2.6.28-11-lpia because of the graphics, but they updated the psb drivers, and not wireless is gone...
<slytherin> mok0: do you still have old kernel? You can try booting to that and check which driver it is.
<mok0> slytherin: I do
<slytherin> juli_: some tests as in unit test? Are you packaging the library because some other application depends on it?
<juli_> slytherin, netbeans depends on it
<slytherin> juli_: hmm, then you should package the version that works.
<geser> juli_: just package the version you need
<juli_> slytherin, geser thank you!
<mok0> slytherin, the graphics are acting up
<mok0> ah
<mok0> Yep wireless works
<ajmitch> building a package where it gets compiled 4 or 5 times ends up not being fun
<mok0> slytherin, now it's using the "Broadcom STA wireless driver"
<geser> ajmitch: so many different flavours?
<ajmitch> geser: yeah, unfortunately
<ajmitch> times like these I think a computer upgrade is overdue :)
<slytherin> mok0: now you can check which driver was loaded in dmesg output
<mok0> slytherin: it's called "wl"
<mok0> slytherin: where would that driver be located (filesystem)?
<slytherin> mok0: 'modinfo wl', you should have path of driver file. then dpkg -S filepath to check which package contains that file. Then see if corresponding package is installed for your latest kernel.
<mok0> slytherin: nice tricks I'm learning here :-)
<mok0> slytherin: the file is not part of any package
<slytherin> mok0: impossible
<slytherin> mok0: what command did you use?
<mok0> dpkg -S volatile/ wl.ko
<slytherin> mok0: you need complete path
<mok0> slytherin: same result
<mok0> slytherin: it might be compiled in place, or unzipped or something
<mok0> slytherin: nvidias drivers are compiled when you install the package
<slytherin> mok0: Ok. Then it is possible that it is done using dkms. In that case I think you need to install -headers package for latest kernel installed.
<mok0> slytherin: yes... I am currently very puzzled...
<mok0> slytherin: at least now I know what kernel module I need
<mok0> slytherin: but it really should have been re-installed with the new kernel version
<slytherin> mok0: can you tell em complete path of the module?
<mok0> slytherin: I've just been using the update-manager thing
<mok0> slytherin: /lib/modules/2.6.28-13-lpia/volatile/wl.ko
<mok0> slytherin: sorry  that 13 is a 11
<slytherin> mok0: this doesn't look like standard path. So you may be right that module is compiled inline.
<mok0> slytherin: It might come from linux-restricted-modules-lpia
<mok0> slytherin: it does
<slytherin> mok0: Looks like that package is not in repositories. So if you used some PPA better talk with its owner. In this case you should discuss with #ubuntu-mobile
<mok0> slytherin: ubuntu-mobile is only for the psb X-driver
<slytherin> mok0: still, if there kernel made your wireless go away, you should talk with them.
<mok0> slytherin: The package is called linux-restricted-modules and it contains the broadcom stuff
<mok0> slytherin: it wasn't their kernel, it was Ubuntu's
<mok0> slytherin: from jaunty-update
<slytherin> mok0: then ask kernel team on their channel to check if they messed anything in the update
<mok0> slytherin: I will... thanks a LOT for your help I am much further now
<ttx> slytherin: note that Java-related builds in karmic are currently failing because of bug 392104
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392104 in ca-certificates-java "[Karmic] Update to ca-certificates 20090624 prevents ca-certificates-java from installing" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392104
<geser> ttx: what a timing. I've filed 392103 probably a few seconds before you :) (duped it to your bug now)
<ttx> geser: argh :)
<ttx> geser: i've a dirtyfix patch on that bug, though I expect Phillip kern to fix it properly in Debian very soon
<slytherin> ttx: thanks for info.
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<\sh> fabrice_sp: ping bug #373873
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373873 in librep "Sync librep 0.17.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373873
<dholbach> Ampelbein: let us know in #ubuntu-meeting when you're back
<dholbach> Ampelbein: don't worry - you're not confused, we moved the meeting an hour early because anant couldn't attend later on
<ivoks> does anyone knos how to create a package from scratch without reading the docs or debian n-m-g? :)
<ivoks> s/knos/know/
<geser> hope for a godly inspiration
<micahg> can I make a sync request here
<micahg> since it's the last day?
<jpds> micahg: No, the archive admins only take bugs reports.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> well, let me ask then, do you guys plan on moving in php 5.3 or is it dependent on getting into unstable sometime soon?
<micahg> it's going to be released very soon
<micahg> and if it's in, will it just replace the current version
<micahg> I just want to know if it's worth filing a sync request for 5.2.10 if 5.3 will replace it later
<fabrice_sp> \sh: yes?
<\sh> fabrice_sp: is there any update on the debian sync?
<fabrice_sp> no: the debian maintainer told me that is was working in Debian with PPC and don't see the point of adopting the changes
<fabrice_sp> and I've not been able to find someone with ppc knowledge to check it
<\sh> fabrice_sp: well...in case of no PPC knowledge (as I don't have) I would say, let's merge it, and when it's a problem later on, we can SRU it without the change
<fabrice_sp> and why not doing at at the contrary if Debian is saying there i no issues?
<\sh> fabrice_sp: because I don't trust the maintainer (he's new) and upstream is not always correct ;)
<fabrice_sp> I mean sync it from Debian and SRU if it fails
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> I'll do the merge then :-)
<fabrice_sp> can you just unsubscribe MOTU form there, and I'll update the debdiff
<fabrice_sp> s/form/from/
<\sh> fabrice_sp: do you not have upload powers?
<fabrice_sp> no: I'm only a u-u-c :-)
<\sh> Don't get me wrong on my last statement...there was a reason why we had this change to our package...and from my web of trust I do trust our people more then others...but that's just me.
<\sh> fabrice_sp: ah ok...happy to be your sponsor :)
<fabrice_sp> cool: I'lll do the merge, and ping you ;-)
<\sh> fabrice_sp: go for it :)
<elzary> Hi, I've got an app I'm packaging which makes use of a library (bundled with the app) where abouts do I credit the author of the lib in the copyright file?
<elzary> also, it's under public domain, where would I say that?
<elzary> the rest of the app is gpl
<slytherin> elzary: what do you mean by library bundles with app?
<elzary> Can I put the lib developers name in the "upstream authors" section of debian/copyright? or is that reserved for the devs of the app?
<elzary> slytherin, I'm not quite sure how else to explain
<slytherin> elzary: where is the source of the library?
<elzary> with the source of the app to be packages
<elzary> *packaged
<elzary> it's just one .c file
<slytherin> elzary: You can have multiple copyright/license sections in debian/copyright file.
<slytherin> bigon: any idea why telepathy-glib failed to build on sparc/powerpc? There is a unit test failure, but I am not able to make out the root cause from build log.
<elzary> slytherin, ok thanks, shall I also list the dev for the library as an upstream developer or not?
<elzary> or just put his name in the copyright section?
<elzary> and not the upstream dev bit
<slytherin> elzary: you should in my opinion.
<elzary> ok
<elzary> Are there any conventions I should adhere to when listing the second license?
<elzary> or can I just say: Within this application there is a library that has been placed into the public domain?
<elzary> and do I need to name the library or give it's location?
<slytherin> elzary: You can simply say, file.c is placed into public domain
<elzary> I dont want to repo admins to be confused
<elzary> oh rite
<elzary> that should do
<elzary> thanks
<elzary> I'm just trying to tread carefully in the copyright file
<slytherin> elzary: you need to specify the path of .c file in the repo. as in folder1/folder2/file.c is in public domain
<elzary> yeah
<elzary> if something is in the public domain has the upstream dev forfeited any claim to copyright?
<elzary> if so I won't list him in the "copyright" section
<elzary> or should I?
<\sh> elzary: you have to...but that's my interpretation between copyright and license
<elzary> ok
<elzary> THere isn't a date for the copyright though
<elzary> I guess I can't really help that
<\sh> elzary: no webpage? no google fragment on this?
<elzary> \sh, yes but
<elzary> it only talks about recent developments in the software
<elzary> the dev that worked on this version is long gone
<elzary> this is an old library, it's had alot done to it since this guy made the release
<\sh> ask upstream :) they should know what they are using ;)
<elzary> ?
<elzary> I don't understand
<elzary> They aren't relevent
<\sh> elzary: it's only one or more files which are having a new license...so upstream should know about the history of the used stuff...
<elzary> \sh,  please excuse my ignorance, I've done alot of reading around packaing and I don't see how your suggestions play a part
<elzary> some guy public domained some software years ago
<elzary> then someone else took over, re-licensed and re-released an altered version
<\sh> shermann@buildserver01:~/packages/karmic/dojotoolkit/dojotoolkit-1.3.1$ ls -la debian/copyright
<\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 shermann shermann 84794 2009-05-25 07:02 debian/copyright
<\sh> e.g. this is my copyright file for dojotoolkit...
<elzary> yes
<elzary> I think I need to re-explain
<elzary> I have an application I am packaging, all the copyright stuff is sorted
<elzary> except: I have found one file with someone elses name onit
<elzary> and a public domain release message
<\sh> there are only a few files, which are not under the same license as the dojotoolkit itself...so people who are developing upstream software should know about the history of the tools they are using...if there is no copyright date publicly available from webpages or similar, the upstream devs should know since when the guy started it
<elzary> So you're telling me to contact them and ask them what year this guy released this file?
<\sh> elzary: that's the plan, yes :)
<elzary> Hypothetically, what if they dont know?
<elzary> after all, it has no version number and was released a few years ago by a dev who is no longer around
<\sh> the version number is not important...dev X wrote a piece of problem solving software, somewhat around year X and release it to the public domain in year Y...public domain doesn't have to do anything with losing copyright...diff between license/usage policy and the work done by dev X (the work done by Dev X will always be his work...even being released under public domain)
<elzary> I'm contacting them now, all I know is this library was written AT LEAST 4 years ago
<elzary> and the name of the developer
<elzary> another quick question, is it right to list this guy as an upstream developer just because one of his libraries(un-beknown) to him is being used>
<elzary> ?
<\sh> elzary: if upstream doesn't know anything else then you, you can state that file/lib XY was developed by Dev X, he has the copyright at least since <release date of upstream software> most probably before ... that's all we can document inside debian/copyright
<elzary> I see
<\sh> as said...lib X can rely on software Y, upstream developer is always of lib X...and upstream is using a software which is (C) by dev Y...so you need to state this...the dev Y has nothing to do with your upstream package..but dev Y can always object against distribution (in the way the license is allowing that) of his source, without even telling upstream about it
<\sh> that said, software Y is shipped with upstream source ...
 * \sh had problems regarding software being (C) by Dev X , licensed under (L)GPL but patented by Frauenhofer so, there are three different views to discover and a lot of money to be paid ;)
<truthordare> hy all..i feel so difficult to understand the "packaging" process.. i tried to learn debian's..but that was hard too..so confusing about the different tools and everything.. aarg.. i know to code in java  and c/c++..also i can learn any new language as required.. can i be of any help?
<elzary> truthordare, it's not perfect but check this out > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<truthordare> i almost made a package using debconf.. so confusing..and i have totally forgot
<truthordare> okay am reading that now.. thanks elzary
<slytherin> truthordare: debian process is not different from ours
<elzary> \sh, there are many ways in which you can word such statements, do the repo admins have a rigid preference or do they just care that it's clear?
<\sh> elzary: I don't know who our archive admins are today...but regarding some debian packages in the past..I would say, they are sometimes rigid but mostly want a clear statement
<\sh> debian packages here means really uploaded to debian...not ubuntu
<elzary> yeah I'm specifically doing this ubuntu, if it works on debian then so be it. If there are rigid rules on how things need to be worded then there should be docs
<elzary> the documents are pretty vague when it comes to anything that isn't totally straightforward
<elzary> I'll just make it clear, they can always send it back with comments if there is an issue
<truthordare> althoutgh i dropped my debian plans.. i actually almost made it..by adopting an orphaned package.. but by the time my mentor asked me for the final package for submission.. i kinda gave it up... then i switched to fedora..but quickly gave it up coz i hated yum more than i hated my ex-gf..i have been using ubuntu since then..been 3 years..i have also been an erly user.. i still have 5.x cd that was shipped to me ;)...
<\sh> elzary: we are not lawyers, that's the thing :)
<bigon> slytherin: maybe ask on #telepathy but it's the same thing on debian
<\sh> truthordare: building packages for redhat/suse has almost the same quality standards/difficulty level as debian packages (without making any diff between Debian and Ubuntu)
<slytherin> bigon: just discussed it there. the test is broken on big endian machines. A fix has been committed. I am testing the fix.
<truthordare> i now run 9.04 64bit + vmware on my workstation rig.. 8gbram, q9550. its a breeze... i just use xp on my laptop..(for playing cod4)
<truthordare> i hated about yum..was the fact..u could never install pacjages from ur local cd/dvd..u needed to create a yum local repository.. well may be i am wrong..but i could never install a single thing from my dvd's unless i created local hdd repos
<\sh> truthordare: I would say you don't know the diff between yum & rpm and apt-get/aptitude and dpkg...but could be just me
<truthordare> and not to mention..a lot of crashes... and my mind was playing games...i couldnt resist putting blame on redhat for each crash i encountered... it was like a beta project..
<truthordare> i only use apt-get for all my install needs.. its very convinient... in fedora..i had to use yum and it wasnt yummy for me... i asked many people..but i couldnt solve.. i had to create local repo's(copy of all packages in the dvd into my hdd partition/folder) inorder to install packages with dependencies
<mok0> truthordare: fedora is waaay behind getting a sensible dependence treatment in place
<mok0> truthordare: fedora's packaging pollicy is basically absent
<\sh> mok0: well...that's not true...SuSE is calculating all needed deps during their builds on open build service via a patched version of RPM...even for debian packages and repositories they can create
<truthordare> all people i knew..were pretty comfortable with it..coz they only did network installs..so they already created network servers with repo.. anyway..thats my past.. the point is.. apart from slackware.. its from ubuntu i have learnt a lot and been most useful for me.. in many ways...so i wanted to contribute my skill to either ubuntu/deb..but since i havent used deb since sarge.. i am now looking to ubuntu to put my skills to use ;)
<savvas> on the other hand, they're waay in the future concerning tempting new packages :P
<mok0> \sh suse != fedora
<\sh> mok0: the problem is more novell != redhat...reinventing the wheel is somewhat a hobby of RH
<\sh> the same goes for novell in some cases
<mok0> \sh, well, redhat _did_ invent the RPM format
<\sh> mok0: actually one guy who worked for RH invented the RPM format...and RH didn't want to let some some improvement in so we had a fork of RPM
<mok0> But one problem is that the core packages are done by redhat and they don't give a sh*t about compatibility with fedora
<mok0> well, I'm not up to speed on RPM, since I switched to Ubuntu/Debian I haven't looked back
<mok0> It's too far back, can't see nothing no more
<mok0> :)
<\sh> mok0: RH pissed of many good RH people in the past...and some of the good people are still working for RH and are on Fedora Community boards...I do see them every time when I'm on some conventions regarding FOSS :) RH is not bad, but they do think about their revenue ... (applies to novell, too :))
<truthordare> can i ask a silly quest.. why does ubuntu need to get into livecd to be installed??..i thought initially they had a normal setup procedure that was less resource hungry and more faster(time to boot into live).. there must be some reason for it..just cant figure by myself
<\sh> truthordare: desktop cd != alternate cd
<mok0> truthordare: there's an alternate cd
<mok0> truthordare: the normal cd is so ppl can see what it looks like before installing
<truthordare> in older times there was desktopcd that installed directly if we wanted to..or we could go to live...
<truthordare> there are 2 options.. 1)go to live cd 2) install..
<truthordare> why need the 2nd option then?
<mok0> truthordare: on the live cd there's an install icon on the desktop
<truthordare> then why put the option on the bootmenu?
<mok0> truthordare: hm, I usually use the alternate can't remember the details of the live
<truthordare> if there is an option..which is right... it must have offered a different install than just booting into live.. the first reason why anyone will want to take the 2nd option is coz he knows he wants to install and not "see a demo"..
<\sh> alternate cd or alternative installation via text-mode d-i is nothing for the not-trained user...we want the not-trained user to use ubuntu just as you use windows
<\sh> therefore the live cd is a better starting point
<truthordare> the livecd is good.. its excellent...
<\sh> install what you see before
<mok0> Of course not many users could install windows if their machine came w/o OS
<truthordare> but the install option is redundant in the boot menu
<\sh> mok0: anyone can install windows and screw their systems ;)
<mok0> heh
<truthordare> ubuntu had a sleek install system before
<mok0> Seriously, if computers were sold without OS the competition would be fair
<truthordare> i mean which didnt need to go to live boot up
<mok0> truthordare: a choice was made to do it that way
<mok0> truthordare: not a big deal imo
<\sh> mok0: hmm...if we wouldn't have computers, we would write more on paper and send more snail mails ... but humanity had bad luck ;) thx mr. zuse ;)
<truthordare> my main prob was.. my graphics driver didnt detect well... so i had low res.. and the install inside the livecd..was a "blind" tab+enter luck testing..many times needed to do from scratch...
<mok0> truthordare: hm, what graphics card is that?
<truthordare> i had once on my lap..nvidia 8400ms
<mok0> oh
<slytherin> truthordare: Ubuntu still has the text only installer. It is called as alternate CD.
<mok0> new nvidia cards are always painful
<truthordare> then i had on my workstation.. intel'sntegrated on dg45id mainboard
<mok0> yo, slytherin I solved my wireless problem
<slytherin> mok0: how?
<mok0> slytherin: I had to run lrm-manager
<truthordare> slytherin : i wouldnt want 2 diff cd's in my hand just to install the same os..
<mok0> slytherin: under the NEW kernel :-)
<slytherin> mok0: who suggested that?
<elzary> \sh,  can I msg you the paragraph of text I left in the copyright file for public domain stuff?
<truthordare> may be the text only installer could have coexisted with the live.. may be as a hiddenoption that normal users wont enture to... yea.i'm just dreaming.. ;)
<\sh> elzary: sure :) email addr is on lp
<elzary> \sh, I can just private message you, reply to this so I can open a priv windows please :)
<elzary> i missed /msg of that hahah
<elzary> Didn't somebody once mention something about XMMS libraries that can't be in the repo or am talking nonsense?
<elzary> As this app makes use of a .c course file from XMMS 1999
<elzary> *source
<slytherin> elzary: xmms is removed from repositories. That is the only thing I know.
<elzary> I'm sure one part of XMMS being bundled with this app won't be a problem
<elzary> I can't see why it would anyway
<truthordare> i will read the link that elzary had given me..and i wil come again later.. btw..in what ways can i be most helpful?? i have coding skills.. but i am open to any objective that is a priority for the community...
<slytherin> truthordare: fix FTBFS.
<elzary> lol
<slytherin> truthordare: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs
<truthordare> okay. i will try to start with the amd64 ones..i can test it natively... then may be i can use hw virtualization for the others.. i will try my best and will come back to here.. ;)..
<truthordare> so these packages are broken?? i mean they dont currenly work on that platform?? so right now a older release is used intead ??
<truthordare> wait... ohh...this is the new development branch....
<slytherin> truthordare: these packages fail to build currently in karmic (current development release).
<truthordare> normally who fixes them?? the package maintainer for that package..right??
<slytherin> truthordare: in Ubuntu there is no one package maintainer. It is a team. For core packages it is core developers, for universe/multiverse packages it is MOTU tesm.
<slytherin> team
<elzary> slytherin, does that apply to all packages?
<slytherin> elzary: yes
<elzary> like, if I put my name on a package as package maintainer would the repo admins remove that and put team instead?
<elzary> assuming it gets into multiverse or universe
<fabrice_sp> \sh, I've just update Bug #373873, just in case you're still here ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 373873 in librep "Sync librep 0.17.3-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/373873
<\sh> fabrice_sp: set in progress and assigned to me...will take it tomorrow early morning :)
<fabrice_sp> great! Thanks ;-)
<\sh> fabrice_sp: thank you :)
<truthordare> i just checked one... makefile errors..mostly... so its about the packaging tools and the rules...etc.. safe to assume that the source code has no compilation/linkage errors ?
<slytherin> truthordare: yes
<slytherin> elzary: put your name as XSBC-Original-Maintainer.
<elzary> slytherin, dh_make added me to the Maintainer line automatically though
<truthordare> okay... i will read the guide and then...initially i would need a little help to get started..once i get the feel of it.. i'm sure i will be able to solve many build errors...
<elzary> I'll move it to the line you said and shall I put anything in the Maintainer line?
<slytherin> changing maintainer is very trivial task. get your package in shape
<truthordare> is there any "set" procedure that is used to solve most of these?
<elzary> slytherin, it is in shape, I'm just polising off the copyright file
<elzary> and other administrative things that would annoy the repo admins should I get them wrong
<truthordare> slytherin : has the people who solved these found it to be repititive task?? if so there must be a straight forward troubleshooting/solving documentation somewhere...
<truthordare> or is it trial and error?
<slytherin> truthordare: AFAIK, there isn't
<slytherin> bigon: I am done testing the FTBFS fix from upstream. I have debdiff ready for ubuntu. Or do you want to push it to Debian first?
<truthordare> okay....so it is a bug...and we really dont know where... if its not a problem caused by the ubuntu packaging environemnt then it mostly will be an upstream prob..so wait till patches are released..and then test it and try the builds again... right??
<bigon> slytherin: yeah I will push it to debian
<slytherin> truthordare: upstream will not know it fails to build until you tell them.
<truthordare> how can i keep track of the status of the ftbfs?? imean how do i know if i am not trying to duplicate someone's effort??..like say  i dont want to try build something that is being corrected by someone else...
<slytherin> bigon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/203747/ please feel free to make adjustment as per Debian.
<truthordare> okay..i will c all later..hopefully with some success.. ;)
<elzary> I've got an AUTHORS file that lists loads of names and mentions one or two things they did for the application, bits of coding, bug fixes etc. I shouldnt mention these people in the debian/copyright file should I?
<LarstiQ> StevenK: ugh is that pyqwt5 package ugly
<Quintasan> elzary: if they are in AUTHORS file then I think you should.
<elzary> Quintasan, some of them aren't authors though
<elzary> like, one of them contributed hardware
<elzary> one wrote a config file
<elzary> the list has at least 20 names
<Quintasan> oh, if that's the case you can list only coders
<elzary> I'm ready to get this package sponsored, I just have no idea what to do with the COPYRIGHT files
<Quintasan> that's what I would do
<elzary> I'm thining that I might just not bother
<elzary> far to many edge cases, and I just dont know what to do
<Quintasan> COPYRIGHT should contain appropriate license and you should have same license in debian/copyright
<fabrice_sp> elzary, you should mention the copyright as it is mentioned in the header of the source files
<elzary> fabrice_sp, yeah that's what I have been doing
<fabrice_sp> I mean, mention the authors
<fabrice_sp> this way, everybody sohuld appear :-)
 * Quintasan started to write same thing
<elzary> fabrice_sp, so what about the AUTHORS file
<elzary> there are only 4 people who really coded
<fabrice_sp> it's an upstream file: just leave it there
<elzary> ok
<elzary> great
<elzary> thanks
<fabrice_sp> the copyright is all about copyrights ... :-)
<fabrice_sp> not coders
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
<elzary> fabrice_sp, in the upstream author section should I also list the names of the people who wrote the 3rd party libraries that bundle with the app?
<elzary> or should I just leave that to the copyright section?
<fabrice_sp> their nema should appear in the source headers of the corresponding file,  if the source is there
<fabrice_sp> s/nema/name (need to go to bed! :-9 )
<elzary> they are in the source files
<elzary> but I need to put them in the copyright file too right?
<elzary> and mention the different license that particular code is released under
<fabrice_sp> for the files they own, yes
<fabrice_sp> exactly
<elzary> fabrice_sp, one more quick question before you go
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<elzary> when I list the copyright holder should I list what file they own next to their name or should I leave that to the "license:" section where I talk about the different licenses?
<elzary> I have about 8 names in the authors /copyright list, only one of them is the guy that coded the app I'm packaging the rest are the library devs
<fabrice_sp> are you using the new/not yet approved format?
<fabrice_sp> for license file, I mean
<fabrice_sp> (this one: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196)
<elzary> erm?
<elzary> Not sure
<elzary> I'm using the template that dh_make gave me
<elzary> so I guess that's a no
<fabrice_sp> use this one: it's easier, I think, when you have a lot of files with several licenses
<elzary> It looks better
<elzary> Is this format being accepted into universe?
<fabrice_sp> yes
<elzary> I'll look into it
<fabrice_sp> and most of the 'new' packages are done using this format
<elzary> maybe I'm being to pedantic with this?
<elzary> hmm
<elzary> ok
<fabrice_sp> last time I submit a package, I've been requested to use this format for copyright file
<fabrice_sp> s/submit/submitted
<elzary> I'll use it then
<elzary> will dh_make be updated at some point?
<fabrice_sp> good :-)
<fabrice_sp> hmmm, don't know. Perhaps when this format will be officially approved
<elzary> I'll be submitting this package for sponsorship into universe tomorrow at this rate :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> you know you ahve to use the REVU tool?
<fabrice_sp> have
<fabrice_sp> !REVU
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<fabrice_sp> (it works! :-) )
<elzary> fabo, yeah I know about revu
<elzary> fabrice_sp, ^
<fabrice_sp> good
<fabrice_sp> when you have it uploaded, ping me if I'm still here, and I'll have a look (even if I can't advocate it :-) )
<elzary> Thanks :D
<fabrice_sp> Have to go to sleep. Bye!
<maco> any core folks around that can sponsor the debdiff on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/392286 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 392286 in aspell-en ""blogs" and "blogger" not recognized by aspell" [Undecided,New]
<elzary> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=196
<elzary> ^ really makes the process of making a good COPYRIGHT file easier
<ajmitch> maco: sure, give me a minute & I'll take a look
<maco> ajmitch, thanks
<maco> packing gconf-cleaner...it's a gtk tool to clear cruft out of a user's gconf settings. what Section should i put in debian/control? "gnome" or "utils"?
<maco> *packaging
<ajmitch> flip a coin
<ajmitch> probably gnome, I guess
<maco> gconf-editor's in utils
<maco> i guess only officially gnomey things get the gnome section
<maco> maintainer should be motu, right?
<ajmitch> either that or Ubuntu Developers
<ajmitch> I'd check because of the archove reorganisation that's coming
<maco> oh, that changes that?
<maco> what about the xsbc-original-maintainer....that only happens on imports from debian, right?
<ajmitch> "#
<ajmitch> Otherwise, the Maintainer field will be set to Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com> "
<ajmitch> you can set it to yourself
<ajmitch> that seems to be the common practice
<maco> ok
<ajmitch> aspell-en uploaded
<maco> thank you
<gaspa> is there some problem with  ca-certificates-java package?
<elzary> under Files: * in the proposed new copyright file format, do I list everyone that has there name in at least one source file?
<elzary> because no one owns EVERY file, just some, or a majority of
<dtchen> gaspa: bug 392104
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392104 in ca-certificates "[Karmic] Update to ca-certificates 20090624 prevents ca-certificates-java from installing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392104
<gaspa> dtchen: ok.thanks.
<LarstiQ> ScottK: I think bug 342782 is done now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 342782 in pyqwt5 "python-qwt5-qt4 will not install on Jaunty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/342782
<ScottK> LarstiQ: Cool.  Uploaded or needs sponsoring?
<LarstiQ> ScottK: I didn't extensively test all combinations, that should still happen I guess. But it builds, installs, and with everything in the right location afaics
<ScottK> LarstiQ: Progress in any case.  I'll try and have a look at it tonight or tomorrow.
<LarstiQ> ScottK: it's past my bedtime, if you could test and upload/sponsor that would be swell.
<LarstiQ> cool
<LarstiQ> good night
<elzary> The new/proposed style COPYRIGHT file in debian/ asks me what license the files in debian/* are under
<elzary> I assume I'm the owner?
<elzary> If there a default license or what?
<elzary> *is there
<directhex> most people use the same license as for the app itself
<savvas> elzary: if you created the packages, then yes, you are the author/owner :)
<elzary> ok
<elzary> I'll out the deb/* files down as GPL-2 then
<elzary> *put
<mok0> They're already talking about Jacko as if he were dead....
<mok0> ... apparently that is the case...
<Ampelbein> wut?
<Ampelbein> mok0: thanks for sponsoring lighttp, bug 326899. I have a question though: You mention that the way I patched the autotools-files was not correct. I reran autoreconf after making the changes and put the resulting diff into an extra patch. What is the difference between this and running autotools on the buildd?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 326899 in lighttpd "provide lighttpd-dev package" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/326899
<DktrKranz> mok0, everyone confirms here
<mok0> Ampelbein: hmm, I don't remember exactly
<mok0> DktrKranz: yeah, BBC reports he died
<elzary> mok0, not being self centred or anything, I wonder if they will refund my ticket for his concert in london -_-
<mok0> elzary: all ticket holders are to make claims against the estate
<mok0> elzary: he probably already spent your money
<elzary> lol
<elzary> I dont think it's true
 * mok0 is overly cynical
<elzary> no good source
<elzary> they all link to tmz
<elzary> which is balls
<mok0> CNN is talking about him in the past tense
<elzary> mok0, yeah but they are basing that on a bad source
<elzary> unless he ran off with the money to live in netherlandv2, epic scam and all
<elzary> hmmm
<ajmitch> it'd be bad to run an obituary & then he lives... :)
<mok0> ajmitch: they have it written already
<ajmitch> they usually have them prepared & stored for when something bad happens
<Ampelbein> mok0: hmm, ok then. because I thought it was better to run autotools locally and not on the buildd.
<ajmitch> noone wants to be last with the news :)
<nellery> Ampelbein: congrats on joining MOTU :)
<mok0> Ampelbein: I remember now. No don't do that
<Ampelbein> nellery: thank you very much!
<mok0> Ampelbein: better to run autotools when building
<nellery> Ampelbein: can I go ahead and kick you out of the sponsoring queue?
<mok0> Ampelbein: patches to Makefile.in etc. are hard to maintain
<nellery> I only see bug #392116
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 392116 in python-adodb "Please merge python-adodb 2.10-1 from debian/unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392116
<Ampelbein> nellery: yeah, that's the only one currently needing sponsoring.
<mok0> "We're following the situation as it develops" I have news for Wolf: It's not gonna develop
<Ampelbein> nellery: I can upload this tomorrow, when I'm added to the team. Or you could sponsor the package, if you have the time.
<Ampelbein> nellery: ;-)
<Ampelbein> mok0: the desktop-team does that (patching autotools) all the time, it's not that hard actually.
<mok0> Ampelbein: don't know about that, but it's bad practice
<mok0> Ampelbein: some people argue that autotools should _always_ be regenerated
<mok0> Ah, Jacko is no longer dead
<mok0> He's in a coma now
<Laney> Uri Geller is commenting on the BBC now...
<Laney> 24 hour news is such fun
<Ampelbein> mok0: ok, thanks for the info.
<mok0> Laney: we have live pictures from a chopper circling the hospital
<Laney> yeah those too
<mok0> stupid, huh
<mok0> ... In the meantime, back in Iran, axing people...
<mok0> Oh, that was Uri..,. thought I saw my spoons bending
<directhex> what hope does some middle eastern country have in keeping people interested versus celebrities?
<ajmitch> mok0: but that other news is so important!
<JontheEchidna> 10 minutes ago he's dead according to times: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/26/2609021.htm?section=entertainment
<JontheEchidna> or, according to times 10 minutes ago he's dead
<mok0> Yeah this is the work of Iranian spies and Ahmadinejad to remove attention from the slaugtering
<JontheEchidna> heh
<directhex> JontheEchidna, all "dead" stories link back to tmz.com
<directhex> who are not trustworthy
<ajmitch> directhex: it's on the internet, it must be true
<Laney> search michael jackson on twitterfall.com
<JontheEchidna> oh, not times, ABC
<Laney> such fun
<mok0> He's been looking like a zombie for a while now
 * ajmitch orders everyone back to productive work :)
<Ampelbein> i don't know, but i had a small laugh looking at tmz. "michael jackson dead" and "click here for live chat" ;-)
<ajmitch> 145 outstanding merges in universe, DIF is today, right?
<mok0> LAt times changes it's mind
<Ampelbein> ajmitch: yes, it is.
<ajmitch> and people care about michael jackson on a day like today...
<mok0> DIF is 10 days earlier this time
<ajmitch> first up on the list is asterisk
 * ajmitch tracks down the person who TIL
<ajmitch> conveniently a loco member
<directhex> am i the only one who really really misses pidgin's ability to stack multi-network contacts when using empathy?
 * ajmitch hasn't even tried out empathy yet
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-26
<masterkernel> hey all, i'm still in need of 2 reviewers for kernelcheck: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<ajmitch> geser: mind if I take the nevow merge?
<mok0> empathy is for sissies. Good night folks
<qiyong> what is the ubuntu server chann name?
<qiyong> what is src group for?
<qiyong> what user should my cvs run as?
<tsimpson> try #ubuntu-server
<qiyong> i often get connection reset error when i mirror archive.ubuntu.com
<qiyong> where should I complain ? tsimpson
<tsimpson> I think #canonical-sysadmin
<lifeless> qiyong: are you a registered mirror?
<qiyong> lifeless: no, i just installed apt-mirror, and use it.
<lifeless> could be your nearest server has issues
<qiyong> tsimpson: i'm not registered, should I go to #canonical-sysadmin still?
<lifeless> but yes, #canonical-sysadmin is probably a good place to go
<savvas> is the debian import freeze active ?
<ajmitch> savvas: I believe the autosyncs have stopped, though I've seen no announcement of it yet
<savvas> ok thanks
<qiyong> lifeless: i think i connected to archive. not archive.country.
<qiyong> lifeless: otherwise, they'll get into archive.coutry. directory\
<qiyong> ok, no one answer me in the server chann, can anyone tell me what src for and what user should cvs run as here?
<lifeless> depends on you
<lifeless> whatever you want
<lifeless> it'll be terrible no matter what
<qiyong> ?
<qiyong> lifeless: ?
<lifeless> ?
<RAOF> I think lifeless is suggesting that CVS is a terrible choice of VCS, no matter what your requirements are.
<maco> *giggle*
<ajmitch> maco: oh, bryce said that you should produce a patch for hunspell as well :)
<ajmitch> he added the extrawords.txt processing to hunspell today
<maco> ajmitch, yes i saw you talking about me in -devel
<maco> i didnt even know about hunspell
<ajmitch> get a patch, I'll get something uploaded
<ajmitch> if not right away, then at least after I get home from work
<savvas> ajmitch: should a bug report be created for new package sync requests?
<ajmitch> savvas: they should once DIF is in effect, which I believe it is
<savvas> oki doki :)
<ajmitch> maybe an archive admin will do a rather late autosync & prove me wrong :)
<asomething> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze says DIF starts today (25th)
<savvas> asomething: It's the 26th today, GMT/UTC at least :)
<asomething> savvas: I've got about an hour and a half left of the 25th still in NY =)
<ajmitch> asomething: and you should know from release days that it's never exactly on 00:00 :P
<ajmitch> though it is usually funny watching people get their hopes up in the release party channel
<persia> I doubt there's going to be another sync run.
<persia> DIF is more the day the archive-admins stop doing something, rather than one of the deadlines where one needs to sneak under the wire.
<ajmitch> though it is a soft deadline for merges today as well
<persia> Oh, right.
<ajmitch> soft deadline being that they ought to be done by now, and we still have a lot in universe
<ajmitch> time for a busy weekend, I think
<persia> Indeed.
<ajmitch> with this sort of weather here, there's not much else I can do :)
<StevenK> I didn't do one yesterday on purpose. I can't see the autosyncer running again until karmic+1
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's what I expected
<persia> Oh, right.  You're Thursday, which makes DIF early :)
<ajmitch> he stoled our syncs?
<persia> No, he just did them real fast like, before we were paying attention.
<ajmitch> oh right
 * ajmitch will still blame it all on StevenK 
<persia> ajmitch, Oh my.  That is an interesting pressure pattern.  I suppose you'll be wet for the next couple weeks even
<ajmitch> and some of my friends are going off skiiing next week too :)
<bddebian> Isn't ajmitch always all wet?
 * bddebian hides
<ajmitch> great to see bddebian as helpful as ever :)
<ajmitch> we missed you, honest
<bddebian> That's me )
<bddebian> All I do these days are QA uploads and package removals! ;-)
<ajmitch> all the exciting bits
<bddebian> All the sclub work as always :)
<bddebian> Err schlub even
<ajmitch> bddebian: that's ok, we understand what you're trying to say :)
<Jazzy> hi
<Jazzy> is this the right channel for ubuntu questions
<Jazzy> or should i join a different one
<ajmitch> #ubuntu for general support
<nhandler> Jazzy: It depends on the type of question. #ubuntu is for general Ubuntu support. This channel is mainly for packaging related stuff
<Jazzy> okay i just need general support
<Jazzy> thank you
<kees> anyone working on wireshark 1.2.0?  I was testing it out and thought I'd upload it if no one else was already doing it.
<dtchen> feel free; i have a local package but won't have time to upload it
<fabrice_sp> Good morning!
<ajmitch> hello
<fabrice_sp> Hello ajmitch ;-)
<fabrice_sp> Can someone have a look at Bug #345208? I'm not sure it's in the correct state for a sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345208 in pythonmagick "[SRU]PythonMagick is not usable because of undefined symbols" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345208
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> Ampelbein, gaspa: I just added you to ~motu - congratulations again :)
<mkep> can someone help me with the debuild command.  I need to install it but it always gives me something about a mail server.
<fabrice_sp> good morning dholbach
<fabrice_sp> Ampelbein, gaspa, congrats!
<dholbach> hiya fabrice_sp
<vkfwb> I am looking for someone who can help me facilitate an update to Ubuntu package of fwbuilder; I am the author and project lead, our upstream package has been updated and we'd like to see Ubuntu packages updated too
<vkfwb> the package has been updated in debian already
<cjwatson> what version?
<vkfwb> uh, v3.0.5
<cjwatson> we have that in karmic already
<vkfwb> great
<vkfwb> would it be possible to make it appear in updates for jaunty and possibly earlier ubuntu ?
<cjwatson> we don't normally update stable releases to newer upstream versions
<vkfwb> oh
<ripps> vkfwb: packages in debian are automatically synced into the latest version of ubuntu, for older versions, you'll have to setup a ppa
<cjwatson> except in some very limited circumstances -
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<cjwatson> jaunty-backports etc. might be a possibility; see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<cjwatson> those two links should tell you all you need to know
<vkfwb> ok, thanks
<vkfwb> reading them now
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hiya ajmitch
<dholbach> hey cjwatson
<dtchen> sheesh, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit with these uscan warnings
<ajmitch> dtchen: such as?
<dtchen> ajmitch: fairly straightforward corrections of warnings about code.google syntax
<ajmitch> how many of them is it worth doing an upload for though?
<dtchen> i'd say all, but i'm just pushing diffs to BTS and adding to Launchpad where there's already an existing reason to upload
<ajmitch> right, that's sort of what I meant
<gaspa> dholbach: thanks \o/
 * TheMuso is doing liblouis as its moving to main, and requires some other fixes.
<TheMuso> Is there anywhere I can document that?
<noodles775> Hi lifeless! When you're not so busy, can you take a look at the following for me? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/sphinxbase
<geser> ajmitch: go ahead (nevow merge)
<lifeless> noodles775: well for starters, address the ! warning at the top of the page :)
<noodles775> lifeless: ah, yes. OK, will do (sometime in the next week). thanks!
<ajmitch> geser: great, only problem is they dropped all the patches & so dropped quilt from build-depends :)
<ajmitch> I think the python 2.6 change for it should go to debian anyway
<slytherin> gaspa: congratulations. :-)
<gaspa> slytherin: thank you! :)
<AnAnt> Hello
<slytherin> AnAnt: Welcome to the @ubuntu.com community. :-)
<AnAnt> slytherin: thanks
<directhex> all the cool kids have an @ubuntu.com
<AnAnt> so, I got a question regardign sl-modem package
<AnAnt> it used to have a binary package (sl-modem-source), that package used module-assistant to build an sl-modem-modules-<KVERS> package
<AnAnt> now, I made sl-modem-source use DKMS  only and not module-assistant
<AnAnt> now how can I make sl-modem-source conflict/replace sl-modem-modules-<KVERS>  ?
<AnAnt> slytherin: if you find out about the velocity/ant thing, could you reply me ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: Sure.
<AnAnt> thanks
<geser> hmm, have them a Provides perhaps or a common dependency you could conflict with?
<persia> AnAnt, You'd have to make it conflict with each package.
<persia> (which is a long and ugly list)
<persia> geser, Problem is m-a packages only depend on the kernel.
<AnAnt> persia: and unpredictable list !
<persia> AnAnt, not so unpredictable.
<persia> Oh, right.  I understand.  non-repo versions...
<AnAnt> yup, non-repo versions that's the problem
<persia> Make sl-modem-daemon Depend on sl-modem-source (>> foo), which does the DKMS hack.
<persia> Oh, nevermind.  That won't work.
<AnAnt> sl-modem-daemon doesn't need to Depend on sl-modem-source actually
<persia> I don't think there's a safe upgrade path for non-repo kernels.
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> You could list all the recent kernel versions for Debian and Ubuntu (including all supported series).
<AnAnt> how ?
<AnAnt> rmadison ?
<geser> what about a check in preinst if sl-modem-modules-* is installed and failing the installation then?
<persia> So, etch, lenny, last 2-3 in testing, last 2-3 in sid, dapper, dapper-updates, hardy, hardy-updates, intrepid, intrepid-updates, jaunty, jaunty-updates, last 2-3 in karmic.
<directhex> geser, i like it
<persia> geser, So have preinst configure bomb out if it would cause a conflict?
<geser> yes
<persia> And then expect new modules to be built with an kernel update using the new package?
<AnAnt> I dont understand that last question
<persia> Well, it's easy enough to test if there is already a sl-modem module built for the current kernel, and not do the DKMS build in that case.
<slytherin> Wait a minute. When the old sl-modem-source (which used module-assistant) is removed won't it automatically remove -modules-<KVERS>
<persia> The trick is then doing the DKMS build for a kernel update.
<persia> slytherin, Except "sl-modem-source" isn't being removed: it's just an upgrade.
<slytherin> persia: isn't that like remove and install new version?
 * persia checks http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts
<persia> slytherin, Not quite.
<slytherin> persia: if it wasn't like that the postrm script would not get executed for upgrade cases.
<AnAnt> slytherin: nope
<persia> postrm gets called, but with different arguments (prerm /postrm remove vs. prerm/postrm upgrade)
<persia> AnAnt, You might be able to do something with "preinst upgrade" to hunt and kill modules packages.
<persia> Except you don't really want to kill the current modules if they are in use for the network connection used to download the upgrade...
<AnAnt> slytherin: sl-modem-modules-_KVERS_ does not Depend on sl-modem-source
<persia> I think I like geser's suggestion of just not doing anything on install if there is a modules package.
<slytherin> AnAnt: I was assuming that module-assistant also removed the modules package. I used sl-modem-source long time ago. So do not actually remember.
<persia> Err, a modules package for the current kernel.
<directhex> correct me if i'm wrong, but since sl-modem-modules-foo is not in the archive, it's perfectly policy-compliant NOT to Conflicts: with it
<AnAnt> directhex: yes, but I got a user screaming at me probably because he got this issue
<AnAnt> not screaming, but he seems upset
<directhex> AnAnt, well, i like the preinst hack
<AnAnt> I'm trying to understand it
<persia> directhex, Erm, kinda.  It's not polite to leave cruft on user systems that you put there in the first place.  If the user pulled it from some third party, it wouldn't matter so much.
<persia> directhex, More importantly, without something, upgrading the package from the previous version fails always, which is usually considered a packaging bug.
<directhex> persia, well, politeness sure. but i don't think there's any policy reason to have a list of conflicts with half a million kernels in it - hence why the preinst seems like a good idea
<AnAnt> hmmm
<AnAnt> would there be a failing upgrade path even ?
<persia> AnAnt, yep.  goes like this:
<AnAnt> I just looked again at the bug LP 375148, and I think there is another problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375148 in sl-modem "no more /dev/ttySL0 device node" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375148
<persia> new package unpacks, postinst-configure is called, that does the DKMS magic, the DKMS stuff tries to install, that tries to overwrite existing files, that causes an error, dpkg gives up as unconfigured.
<AnAnt> oh, I didn't know the DKMS will fail if it tried to overwrite a file installed by a deb
<AnAnt> I thought that this only happens in dpkg
<persia> Maybe it doesn't, but I think it should.  Otherwise you end up with a file that two packages think they control.
<AnAnt> I don't think that it should do
<AnAnt> dkms is not apt/dpkg thing
<persia> If it doesn't, that's probably a bug in DKMS (that packages should be able to be removed completely on purge)
<AnAnt> huh ?
<persia> AnAnt, So, there exists some .ko file, either provided by DKMS or by sl-modem-modules-KVER
<persia> It's important that the file is never provided by both of them.
<persia> Otherwise, it's not safe to clean up.
<AnAnt> ok
<persia> because you can end up with something like removing sl-modem-modules-KVER removing the DKMS-provided file.
<persia> So you need to make sure that the file that would be created by DKMS isn't already present.
<AnAnt> is that really a problem ? that will get rebuilt on the next reboot, right ?
<persia> And if it is, don't do the DKMS bit until later (next kernel upgrade)
<persia> Huh?  I didn't think modules were rebuilt on reboot.  I thought they were rebuilt on kernel upgrade.
<AnAnt> superm1: ^
 * persia wanders off for a bit
<AnAnt> persia: well, I see DKMS doing something at startup
<AnAnt> ok
<slytherin> AnAnt: I think dkms has some sort of daemon which keeps watch for installed/upgraded kernels.
<AnAnt> slytherin: yeah, but how about startup ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: superm1 is the right person for anything related to DKMS.
<AnAnt> yeah
<slytherin> AnAnt: the dkms transition of sl-modem-source was done in jaunty, right?
<AnAnt> slytherin: yes, but module-assistant support was still there
<slytherin> AnAnt: and intrepid version had only module-assistant support right?
<AnAnt> yup
<AnAnt> intrepid or hardy, I don't remember
<AnAnt> yes, intrepid
<AnAnt> ok, about that preinst thing
<AnAnt> wasn't there a way in module-assistant that makes it autobuild a new package for every new kernel update
<AnAnt> there was some auto switch I recall
<slytherin> AnAnt: I can check on my PC what all happens when installing and removing sl-modem-source. But this testing will only happen next week
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<qiyong> i want to upgrade from jaunty to karmic, how advices and procedures?
<MTecknology> So, if I develop solid packages for the repos and the community really likes them, would I be able to have it in the universe?
<MTecknology> dholbach: I see you!
<geser> MTecknology: sure
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<slytherin> qiyong: take backup of your important data. :-)
<MTecknology> dholbach: I'm watching your tutorial video
<MTecknology> at 0400...
<MTecknology> I had an hour long fight with audio first
<qiyong> slytherin: procedures?
<qiyong> sladen: only by changing apt conf?
<qiyong> slytherin: ^
<slytherin> qiyong: 'sudo update-manager -d' should work
<qiyong> slytherin: is it equivalent to change apt conf?
<MTecknology> and video freaked thank you totem+firefox
<slytherin> qiyong: AFAIK, but I have never used it
<MTecknology> geser: I'm really hoping to become motu, but I have a few projects I want to synch up first. Then hopefully get some other devs to push on everything so I can leave the project
<MTecknology> 1hr to dload the first video :D
<therm> hello everybody
<therm> if somebody has the time it would be nice if he would review this: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jameica
<therm> thanks
<directhex> Build-Depends-Indep: sun-java6-jdk ?
 * gaspa is listening an italian radio talking about opensource.... wow
<therm> thanks directhex, I am not really shure where the difference is between Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep
<therm> english is a "foreign-language" for me
<therm> or what did you mean directhex?
<geser> therm: does it really require sun-java and doesn't it build with openjdk?
<ximion> could someone please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/smile ? REVU still shows a copyright warning, but the copyright is surely included.
<ximion> hello!
<ximion> oh, wrong posting order ;-)
<therm> no it doesn't work wiht
<therm> no it doesn't work with openjdk, I talked to the upstream author about this and he said that this is why some encryption does not work there...
<ximion> therm: Your package could depend on the generic package default-jre
<gaspa> ximion: if I remember well...
<gaspa> yes ,it's inside BIB_ManSlide/Help/gpl-2.0.txt, so that warning could be ignored, imho
 * slytherin had forgot how beautiful REVU looks these days. :-)
<ximion> gaspa: It is also in ./copying
<gaspa> right
<gaspa> ximion: I really like the last line of rainct comment  :D
<gaspa> ;)
<ximion> gaspa: Me too ;-)
<gaspa> ximion: i've uploaded it in mentors.debian.net.. it's still waiting for a sponsor.
<therm> ximion: but does this package provide suns-jre? or what is it doing?
<ximion> therm: It depends on the system's default java runtime (In ubuntu Karmic it is the openjdk)
<slytherin> ximion: does the application have a home page?
<ximion> gaspa: Thanks!
<gaspa> slytherin: yes. smile.tuxfamily.org
<slytherin> because the control file does not seem to include it, as REVU is not showing it.
<therm> ximion: but if I would use this the application wont run properly
<therm> it does not run with openjdk
<ximion> therm: okay, the the sun-java runtime is necessary. (Strange... I'll also try to run it with openjdk)
<therm> ximion: You can try but you will see that it will fail on startup by throwing an error
<therm> at least this behavior was in jaunty and intrepid
<slytherin> therm: you can ask upstream authors what kind of APIs are they using which are not present in openjdk
<kpirc> I need a 2nd advocate for my cadabra package now up on REVU. Any takers?
<gaspa> ximion: uh... isn't enough "rm -f $(CURDIR)/debian/smile-slide.png", rathen than: [ ! -f $(CURDIR)/debian/smile-slide.png ] || rm $(CURDIR)/debian/smile-slide.png
<gaspa> just cosmetic, but it's cleaner imho
<\sh> whoever revuadmin is online...please click on fedora-ds-admin and see the error...
<therm> slytherin: I will ask him, but I am not shure if he knows that really
<ximion> gaspa: Yes, I'll change this
<gaspa> ximion: ;)
<ximion> therm: okay, it does really not work with openjdk... But I have not tried to compile with the openjdk-libs
<therm> ximion: okay
<therm> ximion: I have problems with the copyright-file, jameica uses libs that are under a different but opensource license, how to say that in this file?
<directhex> therm, "uses" how?
<directhex> therm, other libs on the system, bundled source, bundled binaries?
<ximion> gaspa: Done.
<therm>  bundled source, I think, otherwise lintian would throw an error, right?
<directhex> no, lintian doesn't moan about binaries
<directhex> are there any .class files?
<therm> no they are jar-files
<directhex> containing class files? that's not allowed
<directhex> look at it this way:
<directhex> a severe security bug is found in a bundled binary lib
<directhex> now what?
<therm> I took a look in the orig.tar.gz, and yes there are class-files in the libs shipped with the upstream code
<therm> an now I have to package all other libs?
<therm> d
<directhex> yes
<directhex> you need to package the required libs separately - and you need to regenerate a new orig with the closed-source stuff removed
<slytherin> therm: you need to package them if they are not already available in repositories.
<therm> in germany we would say "oha"^^
<directhex> the life of a java packager, eh
<therm> I already used as much libs as possible from repositories. So the libs wich are left are not in there.
<therm> Ok I will package them
<slytherin> therm: what libraries are those?
<therm> you may have an look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hibiscus also, this is the real application wich needs jameica
<slytherin> therm: what are the libraries that are not available in repositories?
<therm> slytherin: There are two from the same upstream author wich I packaged here bevor but moved them to archive and swtcalendar, nanoxml, jakarta_commons
<slytherin> therm: jakarta commons is in repository
<therm> the libs from upstream are: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnds http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnutil
<therm> slytherin: aha, how is the name of the package? I didnt found that
<slytherin> therm: nanoxml is in repositories as well. the package names for jakarta commons - http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libcommons
<slytherin> not sure which one you need
<therm> ok I will try to get it work with them, thanks
<therm> means that I have to package swtcalendar, libwilluhnds and libwillunutil
<ximion> Can someone (who has enough time) please review my packaging of the libqt4intf-library? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libqtintf4
<ximion> The library is used by Pascal (and other languages) developers to use Qt4 in their application. It is a complete wrapper for Qt4.
<ximion> Unfortunately, you can't test the library without an application that uses this. The Lazarus-Package sometimes needs this lib.
<ximion> (Just as information)
<therm> slytherin: Upstream wrote an email to answer your question: He said that he means that it should run with openjdk also but really does not work with GCJ, because this uses an different crypto-extension
<therm> slytherin: and that he does devolop it for suns java
<slytherin> therm: which means you can use default-jdk as build dependency and default-jre as runtime dependency.
<therm> slytherin: ok, I will change this
<therm> slytherin: but how does my package now provide that it didnt run with GCJ? I dont wont the users of this program to get confused becaus its not starting^^
<slytherin> therm: your package must be having some shell script to start it right?
<therm> yes
<slytherin> therm: in that shell script you can check if the java runtime is openjdk or not.
<therm> slytherin:  Ok I will try
<therm> I have another question: What happends if the package is uploaded to universe, how to upload new versions of this application?
<slytherin> therm: you need to find a sponsor for any version you need to upload to universe until you become motu and gain upload rights.
<therm> slytherin: ok
<ximion> Is someone there who could check http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/projectm-jack , a ProjectM-visualizer for JackAudio and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libprojectm-qt , a library needed by ProjectM-Jack?
<therm> slytherin: Upstream wrote another email and he is worrying about that libs might be not in the right version, so that this could bring problems
<therm> slytherin: but this is a general thing, how is this solved?
<therm> slytherin: isnt it?
<slytherin> therm: I am not sure how I can help here. This is completely trial and error.
<therm> slytherin: What happend if I need app-1.2 in karmic but its only 1.1, is there a possibiliety to upgrade this?
<therm> slytherin: so that jameica runs properly
<MTecknology> My laptop is hanging w/ an error message when I turn it off. I can't read the whole thing. Where can I dig this up at?
<slytherin> therm: yes, file a bug, prepare the new version of package if possible and then subscribe appropriate sponsors team to the bug.
<MTecknology> offtopic - but you guys are smart..
<slytherin> therm: which app is that by the way?
<therm> therm: app=lib, some jakarta lib maybe
<therm> therm: ok that answers my question
<therm> I am uploading a new version of the package jameica, I changed nanoxml and jakarta libs from repos
<therm> and the default-jre/jdk
<slytherin> therm: are you done packaging its dependencies as well, those which are not repositories?
<therm> slytherin: no not at all, but you might have a look at what I was preparing some weeks ago, there I wanted to package this libs:
<therm> slytherin: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnutil
<therm> slytherin: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnds
<therm> slytherin: I know that for example descriptions are not the right one, but maybe you find bugs
<slytherin> therm: I hope you have verified that packages build properly using pbuilder.
<therm> slytherin: so if they are ready, only swtcalendar must be packaged
<therm> slytherin: how do you mean that?
<therm> slytherin: Ok I see, in that packages there it has to be default-jre/jdk also
<therm> slytherin: In wich section must do I have to put upstreams libs?
<slytherin> therm: I don't understand the question.
<therm> slytherin: In my control-file for libwilluhnds there is a section lib, but lintian throws an warning: W: libwilluhnds: unknown-section lib
<therm> slytherin: what do I have to put there instead
<slytherin> therm: I don't remember offhand. Check debian policy (google). I am a bit busy right now.
<therm> ok
<therm> therm: hehe, sometimes its just an "s" to put afterwards ;-)
<therm> I now have an error by uploading jameica via dput: Uploading jameica_1.7-0ubuntu1.dsc: 553 Could not create file
<therm> This existing file may have been previously uploaded partially
<gaspa> dholbach: what should I do to be added to u-u-s ? just asking here?
 * gaspa can make a  couple of somersaults, too
<dholbach> gaspa: let me see who is admin of the team
<gaspa> dholbach: persia
<gaspa> ok, let's ask him :P
<dholbach> gaspa: DktrKranz and TheMuso too
<gaspa> k
<gaspa> dholbach: ah, the Italian Mafia
<gaspa> :D
<gaspa> DktrKranz: can you add me to u-u-s? ( without paying, please )
<DktrKranz> gaspa: you have to pay anyway, you have to refund "famiglia"
<gaspa> DktrKranz: totopalma will take care.
<gaspa> as usual
<DktrKranz> ok, but don't give us enough visibility, dholbach already noticed us
<dholbach> who's totopalma?
<dholbach> I have a few bills to pay
<DktrKranz> dholbach: historically, I asked 150 euros/upload, and everyone asked totopalma to pay me, so feel free to send bills to him :)
<dholbach> nice
<DktrKranz> gaspa: done, call toto now
<dholbach> I still need to do my taxes... maybe totopalma can do that too?
<DktrKranz> probably
<gaspa> only if you join "italian family" group :)
<dholbach> gaspa: I guess that's one of teams you only expire from when you're dead :-)
<warp10> dholbach: totopalma is the Godfather
<dholbach> it's fine, I'll do my taxes on my own
<DktrKranz> dholbach: ... or when we decide one should
<DktrKranz> but yes, generally people are not so good when they leave
<warp10> DktrKranz: indeed: all the guys who left the famiglia are in "geriatrix" now
<ryanakca> Why do I get the following when I try to upload to REVU?
<ryanakca> Uploading to revu (via ftp to revu.ubuntuwire.com): Uploading kobby_1.0~beta3-0ubuntu1.dsc: 1k/2k451 Failure writing to local file.
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> dholbach: I searched glibc's bugzilla for a bug related to non-solar calendars but I found none
<AnAnt> dholbach: you sure you saw one for glibc ?
<dholbach> AnAnt: probably not
<AnAnt> I remember I saw a request, but on a mailing list
<AnAnt> but no one answered it
<dholbach> it might make sense to talk to somebody about it who have a bit more clue about it than I do :)
<AnAnt> there: sources.redhat.com/ml/libc-alpha/2004-06/msg00165.html
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<masterkernel> Hi, I'm looking for a reviewer or two for my package, kernelcheck - a a project that is designed to automatically build any 2.6 kernel from the upstream source. KernelCheck can help users fix hardware problems and improve boot time by customizing the kernel configuration.
<masterkernel> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<stefanlsd> dholbach: running a packagejam tomorrow. will let you know how it goes :)
<dholbach> stefanlsd: excellent
<dholbach> take pictures and blog about it :)
<stefanlsd> will do :)
<ryanprior> I'm new to debian/ubuntu packaging and have a few questions.
<ryanprior> My package already has its own configure and makefile scripts. Do I still need to include debian/rules?
<ryanprior> Also, how do I sign my source files?
<geser> ryanprior: yes, as debian/rules has the information how to exactly build the deb, e.g. which options to pass to configure, how to actually build and install the software (mostly just calling the Makefile from upstream), any additional steps (like remove unneeded files, etc.)
<geser> when you call debuild -S to build the source package it tries to sign them (if you didn't disable it) but you can sign it also afterwards with debsign
<AnAnt> Hello, does anyone know of a package for a perl module that uses debhelper not CDBS ?
<ryanprior> What sort of rules file should I use for my package?
<ryanprior> dh_make created this huge rules file that I don't really understand -- do I need to use that?
<ryanprior> Is nobody here? Am I asking the wrong question?
<ximion> ryanprior: Are you new to debian-packageking?
<ryanprior> I am.
<ximion> then you should read some tutorials or the debian-packageking-guide before you start.
<ximion> CDBS is a smart way to create small rules-files
<ryanprior> I've read the Ubuntu packaging guide and the Debian packaging guide. I'm just trying to make sense of them.
<ximion> simply use
<ximion> dh_make --cdbs to create the template
<ximion> ;-)
<ryanprior> so should I delete my current rules file and use that?
<Bb7> I am having trouble with a package that MOTU is responsible for:  clearsilver
<Bb7> actually it is python-clearsilver, described here
<Bb7> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clearsilver/+bug/386970
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 386970 in clearsilver "clearsilver module is not available for python 2.6" [Undecided,New]
<ximion> ryanprior: Yes, delete the whole debian directory if you have not already done something useful
<Bb7> yep thats it.  I wish I knew how to help fix the package but by the time I figure out how to contribute we will all be retired
<ryanprior> ximion: Okay, I deleted my debian folder, ran that command, and edited the files
<ryanprior> should I be able to debuild now?
<ximion> ryanprior: Try it! If all variables are st correctly, it will work.
<ximion> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/CDBS for details
<ryanprior> woohoo, it is working
<jmarsden|work> Is there a good reason the PPA builders are showing me a 5+ hour queue delay?  Seems unusual...
<ryanprior> ximion: My package build failed at the end.
<ryanprior> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/204425/
<ryanprior> I don't understand what went wrong.
<ryanprior> I see a permission denied for /usr/share/doc/ecere, but shouldn't fakeroot fix that?
<ximion> ryanprior: Hmm... Is fakeroot installed and registered correctly? Also please check if the DESTDIR-option is parsed by the makefile.
<ximion> I've never seen this fakeroot error
<ximion> maybe someone else knows there more.
<ryanprior> How do I know if it's registered correctly?
<ryanprior> It's installed, but I never did anything to register it.
<ryanprior> Also, I don't know anything about the DESTDIR-option. It's not mentioned in the guide.
<ryanakca> nellery: ping, feel like reviewing and re'acking kobby?
<nellery> ryanakca: hey, busy right now, but might get a chance later today
<nhandler> nellery: If you do sponsor kobby, be sure to include the change to the description.
<nellery> nhandler: alright.
<nellery> keeping the watch file as is?
<ryanprior> My fakeroot appears to be broken, and during the end-stage of building the package it crashes. Has anyone else had that problem? How can I test whether fakeroot is installed properly?
<nhandler> nellery: As long as this is the only version that will not work with the watch file, I have no objections to leaving it broken for right now. We won't be using it much in Ubuntu anyway since it will be maintained in Debian.
<wvdial> hey guys i have a complain
<nhandler> wvdial: What is your complaint?
 * nhandler hopes it isn't about him
<wvdial> you have on you rep a game which is called over god
<wvdial> and when you enter the game you will find this word written like this over God
<ryanprior> "For too long has humanity been ruled by cruel and disputatious gods! Fly through the various layers of the Celestial Oversphere to unseat those who control the universe."
<wvdial> god != God
<ryanprior> It's polytheistic sci-fi fantasy.
<nhandler> wvdial: If that is in the actual application, you will want to talk to the application's author to get it fixed
<wvdial> god can go with alot of thing botha sun
<wvdial> but God is Gid
<wvdial> is God
<wvdial> God cant work with any meaning but God
<wvdial> the only one God the creator
<wvdial> of every thing  you got me
<ryanprior> The idea of God and gods are deeply embedded in fantasy culture, borrowing from ancient mythos and modern day beliefs as well as the writings of various fantasy authors. Rarely is the intention to make any statement about the God Yahweh of Abraham, and this game does not appear to be an exception. However, you can talk to the author and ask for clarification, if that would be helpful.
<wvdial> and who is the author
<wvdial> so i can talk to him
<ximion> ryanprior: I mean the DESTDIR option of the makefile. Have you tried reinstalling fakeroot?
<ryanprior> wvdial: the author appears to be Linley Henzell
<wvdial> and how i can talk to him
<ryanprior> from the man page: Overgod was written by Linley Henzell <l_henzell@yahoo.com.au>
<ryanprior> ximion: I did reinstall fakeroot, no luck.
<ximion> Which ubuntu release do you use?
<ryanprior> 9.04
<ryanprior> i686
<wvdial> is he still in your muto grup
<wvdial> is he still in your muto group
<ryanprior> I'm not sure he ever was. Somebody else may have packaged his game.
<wvdial> can you help me to talk to some one who is Official in your group
<wvdial> coz this subject is very important to me
<wvdial> how come any one could be over god
<wvdial> God
<ryanprior> how indeed
<jmarsden|work> wvdial: 1 Chron 16:25 -- YHWH is above all other gods... so is your issue about capitalization within the game?
<wvdial> God != god
<jmarsden|work> wvdial: So you want *what* changed in the game to reflect that?  What is the issue, specifically?  And why do you think it is a packaging issue?
<wvdial> if you can change in the game ok
<wvdial> if you cant can you delete from your rep
<jmarsden|work> wvdial: Please state specifically what you want changed, and whether this is a packaging issue or something in the upstream software
<wvdial> ok
<wvdial> the game over god
<wvdial> when you enter the game
<wvdial> you will find the word over god written over God
<wvdial> the first over god is ok
<jmarsden|work> And this was done by Ubuntu packagers?  I doubt it.  If you download the original software sources is this screen different in them?
<wvdial> the second over God is not ok
<wvdial> i don`t know
<jmarsden|work> Sounds like you need to persuade the game author to make such a change.  This isn't a packaging issue.
<wvdial> i did`nt download  the orignal one
<masterkernel> wvdial: you're best off reporting this to the upstream maintainer: http://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=1351345
<jmarsden|work> So go do your research (download original sources and compile/run it) and then you will know.  If it is in fact a packaging bug, file a bug in LaunchPad.  if not... talk to the game author.
<wvdial> can`t you delete this game from your rep
<wvdial> coz any way it will still on it`s same in your rep
<wvdial> coz any way it will still on it`s same shape in your rep
<jmarsden|work> Not everyone shares your worldview... you'd need to demonstrate the bug is severe enough to constitue a breach of Ubuntu policy... if you believe it is indeed that severe, file a bug with appropriate justification.
<masterkernel> on another note, can someone review kernelcheck (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck)? I heard it was revu day ;)
<wvdial> but don`t you agree with me that is wrong
<wvdial> and god is not God
<wvdial> and no one is over God
<wvdial> and how come to some one to be over god
<Laney> It's really not clear what you mean
<wvdial> what didn`t you  understand from my words
<masterkernel> apparently instead of overgod, the author wrote overGod in their program
<masterkernel> on the main page
<wvdial> yes
<masterkernel> or rather OverGod
<wvdial> the name of the pack is over god
<wvdial> the name in the game is over God
<wvdial> that is the problem
<Pici> wvdial: I think it was suggested that you speak to the creator of the game for that, or if you feel that it is something that the MOTU is to deal with, to file a bug on that pacakge detailing your concerns.
<ryanprior> I'm still trying to get my package to build. I have hard-coded paths in my makefile -- do I need to get rid of those? Are there environment variables I should be using to keep things sane? Right now the package build fails (you can see output here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/204425/)
<wvdial> so what is the steps that i should take if i want  you to delete this game
<wvdial> from your rep
<Pici> wvdial: you need to file a bug on that package on launchpad detailing why you think it is unsuitable for the repositories
<wvdial> and how can i file that bug
<wvdial> and to whom should i send that file
<Pici> wvdial: which file?
<wvdial> <Pici> wvdial: you need to file a bug on that package on launchpad
 * gaspa is becoming curious and it's going to install this game. :P
<Pici> wvdial: Sorry, 'file' means to submit a bug.
<Pici> wvdial: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/overgod
<wvdial> and do you think what i`m talking about is consider a bug
<Pici> wvdial: I have no opinion on the matter, nor am I a motu
<ScottK> wvdial: I think that your view is only one perspective of many.  Lots of people in the world have a different opinion.  If Ubuntu tries to conform to any particular religious viewpoint, then it's in an impossible situation.
 * ScottK goes with notabug.
 * ScottK adds that there are Ubuntu derivatives focused on audiences with particular religious world views.
 * gaspa installed overgod and do not see any uppercase "G" char
<ryanprior> I'm not positive that it's an invalid bug -- it's probably a good policy to avoid or patch packages which are identifiably and needlessly offensive to some particular group.
<wvdial> i agree with you   but you have to respect  others  religious
<wvdial> i agree with you scottk  but you have to respect  others  religious
<ScottK> wvdial: The only way to do that completely is to prohibit any mention at all.
<ScottK> wvdial: No one forced you to install the game.  If you don't like it, uninstall it.  I think it's you that are being disrespectful.
<ScottK> wvdial: You are the one that is suggesting the archive should be scoured of any religious references to views other than yours.
<ScottK> ryanprior: Either we get a policy saying all mention of any religious topic is prohibited or it's notabug.
<ScottK> wvdial: We also have the sword packages for biblical study that probably offends some other religious group.  Do you think those should be removed?
<wvdial> nooooooo
<wvdial> just the word over god
<ScottK> wvdial: Right.  You can't have it both ways.  Either you accept stuff that's OK for other people's religious perspectives or we can't have any of it.
<ryanprior> ScottK: we don't need to ban games that have female characters, but if a game were submitted which was basically Asteroids with a needlessly misogynistic back-story, we might refuse to package that or modify the package.  Here we have Asteroids with an apparently needlessly anti-theist back-story.
<ScottK> ryanprior: I agree, but I don't see it as related.
<wvdial> scottk you can pack biblle qran twrah
<ScottK> wvdial: I didn't understand that.
<wvdial> just dont pack apps that don`t respect those religious
<ryanprior> In any case, this IRC channel is not a great place for discussion. An e-mail to the mailing list might be more appropriate.
<ryanprior> That is, for this discussion.
<wvdial> ok
<wvdial> can you give me ana email
<wvdial> can you give me an email
<wvdial> to send my complaint
<ScottK> wvdial: Would you also prohibit a game that had an anti-communist theme?
<wvdial> i`m not in a place to prohibit
<ScottK> The problem is neither are we.
<ScottK> Once you start to engage in censorship it's hard to draw lines.
<wvdial> i just want  every on use your rep  fell respectable
<ScottK> If it was part of the default install, then I think you'd have a point.
<wvdial> ya i know but when you see some thing like this it`s a huge insult not for me but for my God coz if it was  for me as a person it`s not a problem but it come to God then i have to  change it
<wvdial> it`s Just a stupide game when you enter it you Just find a big label  which contain the word over God
<ScottK> wvdial: I understand your feelings on the matter.  I do not understand why just not entering the game doesn't solve the problem for you, why you don't want other people who view it differently to be able to play this game?
<RoAkSoAx> when packaging from scratch, which patch system is preferable to package it with, cdbs, dpatch, or quilt?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: That is up to you
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, ok thanks :)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Two separate questions: 1.  what kind of helper system: debheper or cdbs.  That will help answer the patch questions.
<ScottK> But nhandler is right, it's up to you.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok thanks. And in case is a python app ?? or it makes no diference ?
<ScottK> No different.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok thanks :)
<wvdial> coz if i`m in the street and  i saw a drawing  insult God i`ll remove the word of the insult
<sebner> ScottK: I personally not believe in god but I'm really wondering why most people who "believe" think god is more important then themselves
<ScottK> wvdial: You might also get arrested for defacing someone else's property.
<ScottK> sebner: If you believe in an intelligent being with the power of creation, it follows pretty logically.
<wvdial> yes
<RoAkSoAx> sebner, because people might need to believe in something to "keep their lives on track"
<ScottK> JFTR, I count myself as a believer, so my position on this isn't a function of me being anti-religious
<sebner> ScottK: ah right, good that I don't believe in such a thing. One thing less to worry about
<ScottK> But I think we've crossed the line into being WAYYY off topic
<sebner> RoAkSoAx: right but sad
<wvdial> yes i agree
<ScottK> sebner and RoAkSoAx: I also think that your negative characterization of religious people is disharmonious to the purpose of this channel.
<wvdial> is there any email that i can  mail it to try to get that game removed
<sebner> ScottK: I'm sorry that you get this impression but all I've said is that I don't believe in god and think it's "sad" to do so which does not seem like a negative characterization because I have no problem with any religion at all
<ScottK> wvdial: I believe it's ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com would be your first stop.  If you don't get satisfaction there, we have an entire process for dispute resolution.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, oh no I'm not characterizing anything nor saying I'm not a believer. I do believe in God, however I'm just saying an opinion. For example, it is sad how many people kill in the name of God.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: OK.
<ScottK> Not a big deal, I just think we should move on.
<RoAkSoAx> true :)
<wvdial> yes  and i hope  God  guide all of us to the right to follow and  to do
<sebner> ScottK: now you have to lecture him too :P
<ScottK> sebner: I don't think so.  I don't see that as having any potential for being viewed negatively.  If you're a non-believer, what he just hoped for is a no-op and nothing to get excited about.
<sebner> ScottK: right, I think I'm just worried about the potential censorship
<ScottK> sebner: In many cultures such things are very standard and appropriate and I think you're being narrow minded to be annoyed at me for not chiding more for it.
<ScottK> sebner: If you had told him that mention of God made you unconfortable, then you'd have a point.
<sebner> ScottK: gna I'm fine now. I had a tough day, I'll head to bed and everything is fine then
<ScottK> sebner: OK.  Have a good night.
<evanrmurphy> hey all
<sebner> ScottK: thx, you too
<evanrmurphy> Trying to learn pbuilder. I currently have a chroot set up for jaunty but wanna switch it to karmic. When I run "sudo pbuilder update --distribution karmic --override-config" it aborts with an error. Could somebody help me out?
<soren> If you share the error message, maybe someone can.
<evanrmurphy> soren: Here's the whole thing: http://paste.ubuntu.com/204487/. Thanks for your time.
<evanrmurphy> I guess it's failing to download for some reason... (?)
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: I'd suggest changing to using a different mirror and trying again.
<soren> evanrmurphy: http://astromirror.uchicago.edu/ubuntu/dists/karmic/main/binary-i386/Packages 404's for me as well.
<evanrmurphy> ok!
<gaspa> anyone accustomed with mingw packages?
<evanrmurphy> jmarsden|work, soren: Can you tell me where the mirror is specified? I changed the server in Software Sources but it still tries uchicago on the pbuilder update. (I'm running Jaunty, btw.)
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: /etc/apt/sources.list
<jmarsden|work> Check in both your main machine and in the chroot environment...
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: You can use sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login and modify /etc/apt/sources.list
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: So then am I modifying the chroot's /etc/apt/sources.list instead of my system one?
<nhandler> Correct evanrmurphy
<evanrmurphy> Hmmm... once inside the chroot I can't find any editing software to access /etc/apt/sources.list with, lol!
<soren> evanrmurphy: You can edit it from the outside.
<evanrmurphy> soren, nhandler: Pardon my denseness. Where can I find the chroot's /etc/apt/sources.list from outside of it? And was I to do "sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login" and then exit immediately without modifying anything?
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login   # Then edit the file using nano or vi or even sed... then logout
<soren> evanrmurphy: pbuilder unpacks the tarball somewhere and chroots into it, providing you with a shell.
<soren> evanrmurphy: However...
<soren> evanrmurphy: There's nothing stopping you from accessing the unpacked tarball from outside the chroot.
<soren> evanrmurphy: ..where you have a proper editor.
<soren> evanrmurphy: So either you do that, or you use sed to change the mirror URL directly in the chroot.
<soren> evanrmurphy: Don't install an editor. That will defeat the purpose of pbuilder.
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: Worst case you could just create a new pbuilder... with a decent network connection it might even be quicker to do that than all this manual fixup...
<evanrmurphy> I may be doing something wrong, but it appears that inside the chroot neither nano nor vi are available. But sed is!
<jmarsden|work> So go for it with sed :)
<evanrmurphy> jmarsden|work: Great point. :) I'll resort to a new pbuilder if this next try fails.
<jmarsden|work> sed -e s/astromirror.uchicago.edu/archive.ubuntu.com/ /etc/apt/sources.list    # should do it
<jmarsden|work> Or use whatever mirror you want in place of archive.ubuntu.com
<jmarsden|work> sed -i -e s/astromirror.uchicago.edu/archive.ubuntu.com/ /etc/apt/sources.list    # I mean!
<RoAkSoAx> Heya guys. I'm about to package from scratch this app. However, this app has a GIT snapshot that already contains a 'debian' directory. What should I do?? Should I just create a new debian directory and try to package it myself, or should I merge the debian directory from the git snapshot?
<evanrmurphy> Agh, it's _still_ trying from the uchicago server. Hate to cop out, but I think I'm just gonna try a new pbuilder.
<jmarsden|work> You might need to do apt-get update in there after editing sources.list?  Or you can just create a new one :)
<evanrmurphy> never give up! lol
<directhex> RoAkSoAx, generally you need to create a new orig.tar.gz with the debian/ purged
<evanrmurphy> jmarsden|work: Still no dice.
<jmarsden|work> Hmm.  WHat about the sources.list on your main OS?  And did you run  sudo apt-get update in the main OS also?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: You should also contact upstream about not including the debian directory
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: Something somewhere is still seeing info about uchicago being the chosen mirror...
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks for your suggestions nhandler directhex
<RoAkSoAx> )
<evanrmurphy> jmarsden|work: Do I have to "source /etc/apt/sources.list" after I modify it?
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: No, but you need to do apt-get update
<jmarsden|work> No, you have to sudo apt-get update after you modify it.
<nhandler> jmarsden|work: He is root if he logs into pbuilder, so sudo is not necessary
<evanrmurphy> I noticed that about not needing sudo... clever.
<evanrmurphy> Double-checked my system sources.list and currently creating a new pbuilder.
<evanrmurphy> I see the pbuilder create process still grabbing things from uchicago, even though there's nothing with that server in my /etc/apt/sources.list, and I've already done sudo apt-get update.
<evanrmurphy> Is there another file somewhere that contains server information?
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Check your ~/.pbuilderrc file
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: The only thing I have there is COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted".
<Laney> evanrmurphy: try setting MIRRORSITE in there
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: sudo grep -ril uchicago /etc /home  #  will probably show you the file(s) concerned, but will take a while.
<dtchen> nellery: thanks for the upload
<evanrmurphy> jmarsden|work: Your grep has made me progress. Where should pbuilderrc be located? It looks like I have three. (What have I done?!)
<evanrmurphy> I have ~/.pbuilderrc, /etc/pbuilderrc and /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
<evanrmurphy> Laney: And one of them does have a MIRRORSITE variable set to uchicago. :)
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Is it the /etc/pbuilderrc?
<jmarsden|work> evanrmurphy: The first two are normal, not so sure about the third, let me check here... normally /etc/pbuilderrc is a set of defaults, and ~/.pbuilderrc is to override those defaults
<nhandler> That is the system-wide pbuilder config file that is for all users
<jmarsden|work> And /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc is a symlink to /etc/pbuilderrc, so really you only have two
<evanrmurphy> nhandler: Correct. /etc/pbuilderrc has the MIRRORSITE variable.
<nhandler> evanrmurphy: Then change that file ;)
<jmarsden|work> OK, so edit that one to be MIRRORSITE=http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/  or whatever and off you go :)
<evanrmurphy> \o/
<Laney> well
<Laney> you could just put it in your home directory and it would override the other one
<raylu> i'm interested in adding color support to aptitude, but i don't know where to start.
<evanrmurphy> OMG IT'S WORKING!!!
 * evanrmurphy clicks his heels
<evanrmurphy> nhandler, jmarsden|work, Laney, soren: Thank you all very much for your help and time on this.
<soren> evanrmurphy: Sure thing :)
<evanrmurphy> are you all MOTU?
<jmarsden|work> No problem... and no, I'm not a MOTU... hopefully one day I will be.
<soren> Some of us are, yes.
<nhandler> I am
<evanrmurphy> I'm an aspiring MOTU, so hopefully I'll see you all around. Cheers!
<ajmitch> morning
<nhandler> Hello ajmitch
<iulian> 'ey
<Q-FUNK> howdy!
<Q-FUNK> is there any way to make a package collect logs, etc. for inclusion with a bug report whenever sent using 'ubuntu-bug' similarily to what Debian does with /usr/share/bug/packagename ?
<Laney> those are called apport hooks afaik
<Q-FUNK> ... to what Debian does with /usr/share/bug/packagename/scripts, sorry
<Q-FUNK> Laney: that sounds about right. is there any documentation on making those?
<Laney> probably, but now you know as much as I do :)
<Q-FUNK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo
<Q-FUNK> ah, there
<Q-FUNK> I was just misisng the magic word "apport hooks"
<Q-FUNK> hmm... ok, but - unless I misread what I found there - apport hooks only seem to be triggered whenever a crash happens
<raylu> so, with regard to adding colors to aptitude output, where should i begin? should this change be made upstream? should i start by installing a VM?
<raylu> or perhaps it should be added as a translation?
<ScottK> raylu: Probably upstream.
<raylu> i remember finding a page earlier about projects that new developers could jump in on. anyone know what i'm talking about?
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-27
<cjwatson> (On that whole overgod thing above: apart from anything else, unless I'm very much mistaken, the complainant has misunderstood the word "overgod". It doesn't mean "one who is over God"; it means "supreme God".)
<cjwatson> (A bit like "high priest" or "overking" or whatever.)
<persia> I thought the complaint was using what was apparently a proper noun in a polytheistic context.
<cjwatson> I read it a couple of times and as best I could make out his syntax the above was the core of his complaint.
<cjwatson> though I imagine there was some of what you describe too
<persia> Hrm.  On rereading, I can see your interpretation as well.
<dustie> :)
 * RAOF tries to remember the magic that makes pbuilder work properly on a tmpfs
<RAOF> Bah.  How do I get pbuilder to not try to copy or hardlink files to the apt cache?
<RAOF> I guess it's a bug.  Setting APTCACHE="" does not, in fact, make pbuilder fail to do this.
<raylu> so, what is the preferred way to add color support to something like aptitude anyway? i imagine there'd be problems with terminals that don't support color and different background colors
<jmarsden> raylu: man terminfo
<raylu> jmarsden: did that and a bit of googling... i'm fairly confused.
<raylu> i'm not expected to actually parse these files myself, am i? i was looking at ncurses too, but i'm not sure if it's suitable for my needs since i don't intend to draw any windows
<stefanlsd> Hi from packagejam south africa :)
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> so what's happening there in .za? :)
<stefanlsd> haha. im waiting for people to arrive :)
<ajmitch> hopefully you get a good turnout
<ajmitch> planning to package up some new stuff & get it in, or merge/fix up existing packages there?
<stefanlsd> ajmitch: our first one, my main goal is to get people interested and started, just over that first hump so they start contributing
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> good luck :)
<ajmitch> and let us know how it goes, it'd be an interesting thing to run here
<stefanlsd> will do, i will blog about it, and i hope to get a couple others to do the same
<therm> jameica, libwilluhnds, libwilluhnutil and libswtcalendar are now ready to be reviewed
<randomaction> Is it appropriate to request package sync now, after DebianImportFreeze?
<pochu> randomaction: if there's a good reason, yes
<directhex> randomaction, absolutely
<randomaction> I think that a new upstream version counts as a good reason
<pochu> if it's an stable version, it is :)
<therm> jameica, libwilluhnds, libwilluhnutil and libswtcalendar are now ready to be reviewed
<Sarvatt> Heyo, I have a question that I could use some help on. What would be the correct versioning to update a package in this situation: version 1.0-0ubuntu1 is the current version in the archive, but a more recent git snapshot of it is needed and the version internally is 1.1 but 1.1 has not been released. Would 1.0+git20090627-0ubuntu1 be the way to do it, or 1.1~git20090627, or something else even?
<geser> both are good as both are smaller than 1.1-0ubuntu1 (assuming 1.1 will be the next upstream release)
<cpscotti> Help regarding revu: I already packed my application properly (already fully working on my ppa) but I am in doubt regarding the version numbers. Should I add "ubuntu1" to the end of my version number before uploading? What about the "Maintainer" field in the debian/control file? Should I change it to "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>" ?
<therm> cpscotti: change Maintainer field to <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> and XSBC-Original-Maintainer to your name / email
<therm> cpscotti: versioning is Appversion-debiannumberubuntuubuntunumber
<therm> cpscotti: like app-0ubuntu1
<therm> cpscotti: 1.7-0ubuntu1 sorry
<therm> cpscotti: 0 because it is not in debian already, isnt it?
<kklimonda|test> hey, I've been wondering is it possible to create an empty deb file that will upon installation own some (unowned by another package) files?
<therm> kklimonda|test: didnt understand what you mean
<kklimonda|test> therm: hmm.. for example we create an installer that installs files and then dummy deb file that will own them and entry in sources.list so it can be upgraded just like any other package in system.
<therm> kklimonda|test: is it closed source or why do you need such an installer?
<kklimonda|test> therm: well, this is just an idea I had for a closed source applications
<therm> therm: is it your application?
<therm> kklimonda|test: is it your application?
<kklimonda|test> therm: no - it's just an idea I've had when I was supposed to study to my exams ;)
<kklimonda|test> therm: it sounds like something that if could be done would be useful - personally I'd like to see commercial applications integrated with package system and all the goodness it brings. :)
<kklimonda|test> brb
<therm> kklimonda|test:  you could make a ppa where you package those apps, so people could add them to sources.list.  Its as easy as running an installer
<kklimonda|test> therm: but then I'd have to create a packages for every (leading) distribution.
<cpscotti> therm: thanks !! you got it all right
<therm> kklimonda|test: I cant imaging people would like to have installers change their sources.list
<therm> therm: no problem
<kklimonda|test> therm: why not? As long as it just adds another entry I see no problem. After all they (people who use them) run a closed source installers right now. Yes, it's a matter of trust.. as always
<therm> therm: but if you didnt want to make a package for every leading distribution, how do you plan to make this "and then dummy deb file that will own them"?
<therm> kklimonda|test: but if you didnt want to make a package for every leading distribution, how do you plan to make this "and then dummy deb file that will own them"?
<therm> kklimonda|test: do you search a program wich is creating debs,rpms what ever automaticly by the installed distribution?
<therm> kklimonda|test: something like that, I have not heard of. but opensuse hase something I dont remember the name, it creates deb/rpms for many distributions, that might help you
<jmarsden> https://build.opensuse.org/
<therm> jmarsden:  thanks ;-)
<kklimonda|test> therm: obviously dummy package file would have to be prepared but it's more a matter of space on a install medium. For example if program is 3-4GB and you install it from a dvd then you just can't prepare one dvd.
<kklimonda|test> wtr build.opensuse.org it's as I said - preparing and building packages isn't a problem itself - distribution of them is.
<cpscotti> Can anyone review this package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ? It is a "simulink-like" automatic programming tool for computer vision and image processing.
<cpscotti> warp10 and nellery, I see you are from the MOTU's Science team, could you review this package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). I is, in many ways, similar to FlowDesigner.
<cpscotti> *It
 * warp10 takes a look at harpia
<warp10> cpscotti: I gave a very fast look to the debian/. You should add a watch file, s/jaunty/karmic/in the changelog, and add a white line before the last line. I'll give a broader look and make more tests ASAP
<warp10> cpscotti: ah, I see you are the upstream developer too. Nice! :)
<cpscotti> =]
<cpscotti> lets fix this watch thing
<RainCT> omg... /me sees the "remove this game.." thread on ubuntu-motu and wonders whether he should cry or laugh XDDDD
<Sarvatt> sorry again for another question and thanks for the help earlier! what's the correct format for multiple launchpad bug closers in the changelog that require a new line? should the ones on the new line start a new () or is it smart enough for this to work?
<Sarvatt>      Fixes problems returning from a dpms off state. (LP: #390917,
<Sarvatt>      #383973, #123456, #123456, #123456)
<RainCT> Sarvatt: that should work
<Sarvatt> thanks a bunch!
<RainCT> Sarvatt: that should work
<RainCT> (oops sorry,pressed up arrow + enter in the wrong window)
<sebner> RainCT: full ack
<sebner> RainCT: the game is indeed crap though xD
<ScottK> RainCT: We had a long discussion here yesterday on the game topic.
 * sebner runs
<RainCT> sebner: hehe Right. After reading the mail I thought maybe I should blog a review on planet.ubuntu.com or send something to debaday, but after trying it out I don't think I'm going to do that :P
<c_korn> hello. trying to package the latest version of wireshark I get those errors at the end. http://pastebin.com/d7b8c3a14 I used the karmic package as starting point.
<cpscotti> c_korn: my ignorant suggestion would be.. do you have fakeroot installed?
<cpscotti> c_korn: "/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot-sysv.so" exists?
<c_korn> cpscotti: hm, the build is running in a schroot. I need to check if fakeroot is installed there...
<c_korn> cpscotti: yes, this file exists
<c_korn> that fakeroot version is installed:   Installed: 1.12.1ubuntu1
<c_korn> in what way conflicts fakeroot with the build process here?
<c_korn> I never encountered any issues relating fakeroot before
<cpscotti> seems it will use fakeroot so that files inside the package have root ownership... and things like that
<cpscotti> seems it was just a blind guess
<cpscotti> you changed LD_PRELOAD ?
<c_korn> no, I did not change it
<cpscotti> you said u started from the karmic's wireshark package right?
<cpscotti> without changing anything you still could not build it?
<c_korn> well, I just edited the patches to apply on the new sources
<c_korn> this is all I did. no changes to debian/rules
<cpscotti> but before applying the patches could you build it?
<c_korn> I was not able to build the new version.
<c_korn> and I did not try to not apply the patches
<cpscotti> c_korn: I downloaded wireshark's source from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wireshark/1.0.7-1ubuntu1
<crux> Hi guys, I've got a package (in progress), the COPYING file is GPL2 but the headers on 95% of the source files are standard GPL, no version specified, shall I list the entire app as GPL-2 or GPL-any in the debian/COPYRIGHT file?
<cpscotti> c_korn: and I could build it ok
<cpscotti> c_korn: using ordinary shell
<c_korn> cpscotti: did you try the latest wireshark release?
<c_korn> the failing package is here: dget -ux http://abs.getdeb.net/pre_build/jaunty/wireshark_1.2.0-1~getdeb1_source.changes
<cpscotti> I'll try
<ScottK> crux: If upstream is at all active, ask them what they intended.
<crux> ScottK, I already asked, they intended GPL-2 even though most of the headers don't specify the version
<ScottK> Then specify it that way in debian/copyright.
<crux> It's a complex copyright situation, loats of different files with different dates and authors, I used the new/proposed copyright format from the debian wiki so it should be clear to the repo admins
<crux> I don't want to make their job any harder
<crux> ScottK, lintian noticed that I have binary files with no corresponding man pages, am I ok to submit this package to revu without man pages
<crux> ?
<crux> Afterall, not all apps have man pages
<ScottK> crux: Odds of it getting uploaded that way are very low.
<ScottK> You can write them.
<crux> Aren't there plenty of apps in the repo without them though?
<crux> and to what standard/scope should I write the man pages too?
<ScottK> There are, but it's been policy for some time that all binaries should have one, so those that have missing man pages are buggy.
<ScottK> They don't need to be extensive.  Even if they just have some basic info and a pointer to the real docs, that's a help.
<cpscotti> c_korn: I builded that package you linked properly.. no errors
<cpscotti> *uilt
<crux> ScottK, I see, well this app isn't exactly well documented, I don't think there is much I can say in the man pages, the app is really all about the GUI and I can't write docs for everyday usage of the app
<ScottK> Even if you just say how to get to what documentation there is, it's something.  If the app has any command line switches when being started, they should be covered too.
<crux> So, applications without documentation are pretty much not going to make it into multi/universe ?
<crux> I just checked with upstream
<crux> there are no plans for documentation
<ScottK> If you've made a good faith effort given what upstream gives you to work with, then it's not necessarily a blocker.
<crux> I'll submit it and see what happens I guess
<crux> it's quite a niche area, if your using this app you'll already know how it works
<crux> it's for motor engine tuning
<cpscotti> Quick thing: when uploading a new version to revu (with some packaging bugs fixed), what version number should be changed? ubuntu"X" ?
<ScottK> cpscotti: REVU is just for new packages.  For upgrades just put the diff.gz in a bug on LP.
<cpscotti> new version of a new package... in my case
<ScottK> Then it should be [newupstreamversion]-0ubuntu1
<cpscotti> its the same upstream version, I just added the missing "watch" file and fixed the distribution target on the changelog
<cpscotti> but when I try to upload dput tells me I already uploaded it
<cpscotti> is passing "-f" to dput the solution?
<ScottK> Removing the .upload file is a better one
<ScottK> If you're just updatingthe packaging on REVU, don't change the version number at all.
<cpscotti> thanks!
<c_korn> cpscotti: hm, ok. thanks. how did you build the package?
<c_korn> was fakeroot installed? (this library existing)?
<cpscotti> yep
<cpscotti> I downloaded the files from your link
<cpscotti> c_korn: then:$ dpkg-source -x wireshark_1.2.0~getdeb1.dsc tmpFold
<cpscotti> $cd tmpFold
<cpscotti> $debuild -S -sa -rfakeroot
<cpscotti> c_korn: since you said somethin about the patches, I applied some of then, changed the changelog and did debuild again.. everythin fine
<c_korn> hm, I use sbuild which creates a schroot to build in. I will try to build it in a PPA. thanks for your help
<c_korn> what do you mean. some of them?
<cpscotti> u wlc
<c_korn> that not all appear in the 00list file?
<cpscotti> the ones in debian/patches/
<cpscotti> one of those scripts
<cpscotti> (even though that doesn't make much of a sense..)
<crux> what's the difference between the files pbuilder creates in ../../debian and the ones it creates in /var/pbuilder/result?
<crux> both dir's contain a diff, a dsc and a build file
<crux> only the results dir has the actual binary deb
<nailora> there is a really great scanning application, gnome-scan. i have even heard it is considered to make it the default ubuntu scanning app. however the currently included version is very outdated. there are new versions available, both in launchpad and revu. and even so the original developer seems very supportive, no new version gets included... if one of you could have a look... https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnomescan/+bug
<sebner> nailora: +gs
<nailora> sebner: what does that mean
<sebner> nailora: your link misses a "gs" at the end. bugs and not +bu ;)
<cpscotti> Can anyone review this package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ? It is a "simulink-like" automatic programming tool for computer vision and image processing.
<savvas> nailora: http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/p/gnome-scan - I think the hold-up is because of the bersace user last comment: "Iâll migrate to new copyright format later."
<savvas> nailora: there's also a debian request for package: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395334
<ubottu> Debian bug 395334 in wnpp "RFP: gnomescan -- Gnome Scan Infrastructure" [Wishlist,Open]
<bencrisford> is there a shell command to llist lines in a file?
<bencrisford> as in number of lines
<popey> wc
<rys> cat file | wc -l ?
<popey> unncessary use of cat alert!
<popey> wc -l <filename>
<rys> iirc, you get the filename printed if you use cat on its own
<savvas> bencrisford: you can use head and tail together, example will retrieve first 10 lines and then the last 5 lines of those: head --lines 10 packages.txt | tail --lines 5
<popey> rys: you do with wc -l too
<rys> I figured he was just after the raw number
<rys> err, wc on its own even
<bencrisford> im after a raw number yeah
<bencrisford> what i want, is to put it in a script
<popey> ahh
<bencrisford> so i do a: [no.of lines command] > $VAR
<savvas> this will show line no. 10 I think: head --lines 10 packages.txt | tail --lines 1
<savvas> yep :)
<crux> W: megatunix: copyright-refers-to-versionless-license-file usr/share/common-licenses/GPL
<crux> lintian ^
<crux> where do I change this?
<crux> where does lintian look to get license info?
<savvas> crux: pastebin your debian/copyright file somewhere so we can take a look at it
<crux> savvas, http://paste.ubuntu.com/205218/
<sebner> crux: if the source files really are GPL you can ignore/override this warning
<crux> sebner, yes, all the .c source files are GPL (version less) except two of them which are public domain, the LICENSE file that came with the app is GPL-2
<crux> how is lintian coming up with this license error? it must be getting its info from somewhere
<crux> side note > I guess I could take that public domain files and list them as gpl-2 as that's what the app is
<savvas> 1. Format-Specification: I think it should show the revision of the CopyrightFormat, e.g.: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=recall&rev=455
<bencrisford> What shell command would I use to check if a directory exists?
<kklimonda> test -d $DIRECTORY
<bencrisford> kklimonda: I ran that and got no output
<bencrisford> is that right?
<kklimonda> yes - test basically exits with a status of expression
<bencrisford> if i was writing a script
<bencrisford> what would my if statement look like
<crux> savvas, How exactly do I do that?
<kklimonda> so if you want any output (for debug) you can use test -d $DIRECTORY && echo 'found'
<bencrisford> for "if $directory exists do this"
<savvas> crux: for the gpl error, I have no idea, can you try to include it in quotes? try this: '/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2'
<bencrisford> kklimonda:  Would this work:  test -d /home/user/directory && echo 'true' > $VAR
<crux> savvas, would that be for the files: * section?
<bencrisford> then:  if [ "$VAR" = "true" ];
<savvas> crux: you click on "Info" link at the copyrightformat wiki page: http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat?action=info
<kklimonda> bencrisford: if test -d /home/user directory; then var=true; else var=false; fi
<savvas> crux: the one you pasted still shows the error you mentioned, right?
<kklimonda> you can also use if [ -d /home/user/directory ];then var=true; else var=false; fi
<crux> savvas, yes
<savvas> crux: replace all /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 with '/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2' (not sure, but worth a try)
<savvas> This is what I have in a test package:
<savvas>     On Debian systems, the full text of the GPL can be found at
<savvas>     '/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3'.
<cpscotti> what means TBD (next revu day)
<cpscotti> ?
<nailora> cpscotti: to be decided
<crux> savvas, already tried that, thing is, there can be more than one license file so lintain shouldnt look at every section, it should just look at the section that declares the license for the whole app
<crux> maybe this is fixed in the backport of lintian
<cpscotti> thanks nailora
<bencrisford> also, im fairly new to bash, is != a valid operator for if statements and the like?
<crux> if not I'll just ignore the error and submit to revu, if someone knows more about this I'm sure they will send a comment my way
<savvas> crux: I have installed on jaunty 2.2.10 from debian, no idea :)
<crux> haha
<crux> thanks for the suggestions, I'll just see what feedback I get :)
<kklimonda> bencrisford: it is but shell programming is a bit messy..
 * bencrisford likes messy :D
<kklimonda> bencrisford: [ 'a' != 'b' ] && echo 'test'
<kklimonda> so it works with if
<savvas> bencrisford: bash or sh?
<bencrisford> bash
<savvas> ok just checking :)
<kklimonda> savvas: as far as I can see != works with both bash and dash
<savvas> it does it does, just checking for future questions :P
<kklimonda> yeah, I was just going ask the same..
<kklimonda> bashisms are really pain in the ass :/
<savvas> there was a checkbashisms script somewhere.. devscripts?
<kklimonda> yes
<bencrisford> grr, how do you redirect to a variable
<bencrisford> command > $VAR doesnt seem to work
<kklimonda> VAR=`command`
<savvas> VAR = $(command)
<savvas> er.. VAR=..
<savvas> what kklimonda said :)
<kklimonda> $() also works
<kklimonda> I don't know what's the difference
<kklimonda> i guess one of them is "more official"..
<savvas> no idea hehe
#ubuntu-motu 2009-06-28
<jmarsden> $() is newer bash syntax, and I think it is preferred unless you need your script to work in old versions of bash.  See the Advanced Bash Scripting Guide which says "The $(...)  form has superseded backticks for command substitution."  http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/commandsub.html
<henrik-hw0> hi. any chance of requesting an update of libsndfile to 1.0.18 or newer? it brings notable new features such as support for ogg vorbis and flac.
<ajmitch> henrik-hw0: not likely to happen in jaunty, since it's released, but we have 1.0.20 in karmic
<Ampelbein> nellery: still there?
<nellery> Ampelbein: hi
<Ampelbein> nellery: hi. about testbuilding (python-)packages: it is extremely useful to add pkgbinarymangler as additional package, either via --extrapackages in pbuilder or as build-dep for ppa-testing. that way, a FTBFS will be shown for the python2.6-dist-packages thing.
<Ampelbein> (among other problems, of course)
<Ampelbein> nellery: i got this from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-June/005805.html
<nellery> Ampelbein: yea, thanks for that
<MTecknology> I was trying to follow the Packaging 101 video. I think the video might need to be remade since it seems like much of what was being done in there won't work anymore
<MTecknology> the ed version used it's on ftp.gnu.org anymore and when I run "dh" in there, I get this error: dh: cannot read debian/control: No such file or directory
<therm> someone out there likes reviewing my packages? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnutil http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnds http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libswtcalendar http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jameica
<therm> someone out there likes reviewing my packages? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnutil http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libwilluhnds http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libswtcalendar http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jameica
<micahg> anyone in here familiar with mantis?
<micahg> nevermind....
<ajmitch> geser: good timing, I was just starting a test build of kxstitch :)
<cpscotti> Can anyone review this package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ? It is a "simulink-like" automatic programming tool for computer vision and image processing.
<garyvdm> Hi - I'm trying to test a package with pbuilder. When I run sudo pbuilder create - it does nothing
<garyvdm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/205525/
<garyvdm> And according to the System Monitor, It's not downloading anything.
<JontheEchidna> that's quite strange, I've never seen that happen before
<stefanlsd> garyvdm: u there?
<garyvdm> HI
<garyvdm> How are you?
<stefanlsd> heys. good!  we put a mirror in /etc/pbuilderrc
<stefanlsd> you prob just want to take that out
<garyvdm> Ok
<garyvdm> stefanlsd: It's downloading alot, even though I'm building a jaunty. Is there a  way to get it to use a ubuntu cd?
<garyvdm> Or apt-cache
<stefanlsd> garyvdm: not that i know of. You can pass pbuilder a mirror, so if you could create a 'mirror' repo of the cd, that should work.. if you have an apt-cache repo, that would work
<garyvdm> Ok - thanks - I'll look at that - I unfortunately cant use that much bandwidth.
<stefanlsd> garyvdm: yeah. you should of actually copied my pbuilder tar.gz files :|
<garyvdm> stefanlsd: would it be ok if I poped in on Monday with a flash drive?
<stefanlsd> garyvdm: yeah, np
<garyvdm> cool.
<stefanlsd> garyvdm: (if you wanna come borrow some bandwidth, thats also ok)
<c_korn> cpscotti: ping
<_dcraven> So.. I'm looking for an package upgrade bug to repackage if there is a newer version upstream compared to the version in the ubuntu repos. Many of these (in LP) are assigned to debbugs meaning the intent is that they are to be upgraded in Debian, then synced. Are we supposed to ignore these?
<RainCT> Uhm... launchpad.net, wiki.ubuntu.com, ubuntuforums.org and packages.ubuntu.com are broken :/
<iulian> Hmm, indeed.
<RainCT> persia: OT, do you happen to know how to concatenate all results of a subquery into a comma-separated string in SQLite?
<Laney> wtf
<Laney> why do random process bugs suddenly start getting comments months after they were closed?
<geser> you mean the lp branches mails?
<Telesforo> 18/07/2009 21:00enBB Bino + Insershow + Fu-fu Ai + ...
 * directhex tickles Daviey 
 * Daviey giggles like a little baby
<kpirc> Hi all. I need a 2nd advocate for my 'cadabra' package on REVU. Any takers?
<mtinman> Hey all, I am trying to build mtftar into a .deb, but the Makefile contains no instructions to install. What commands/code should I add to this file to make it install, so I can get this package built? Any help is much appreciated...
<sbasuita> mtinman, just put your install commands into debian/rules
<mtinman> sbasuita: In a nutshell, how do I do that?
<sbasuita> mtinman, debian/rules is a makefile, so just edit the 'install' rule
<mtinman> sbasuita: Cool, thatnks, I'll try that...
<mtinman> sbasuita: Where is said file usually located in the file system?
<sbasuita> mtinman, root of source package/debian/rules
<sbasuita> mtinman, it is pretty vital... how are you packaging this?
<mtinman> sbasuita: I'm trying to use the new packager, GiftWrap, and also by command line, which I'm more farmiliar with (I'm older)
<mtinman> *Chckle*
<mtinman> I am attempting to package mtftar.
<cpscotti> Trying again: Can anyone review this package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ? It is a "simulink-like" visual automatic programming tool for computer vision and image processing. (I know it's not a REVU day.. but..)
<sbasuita> mtinman, you should read the packaging guide on the wiki
<mtinman> sbasuita: Thanks, I appreciate your help... :-)
<masterkernel> Anyone interested in reviewing KernelCheck? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck) I promise I'll stop bugging you guys if someone does ;)
<kb9vqf_> Any idea why REVU would crash with this error?
<kb9vqf_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/389-directory-server
<kb9vqf_> (The error is on that page)
<ajmitch> it's something I've seen before, a problem with the changelog parsing
<kb9vqf_> Well, the only thing I changed was this line
<kb9vqf_> 389-directory-server (1.2.0-0ubuntu1) karmic; urgency=low
<kb9vqf_> Is the version number incorrect?
<ajmitch> version number ought to be ok
<kb9vqf_> For some reason it is affecting a lot of my packages and I don't know how to fix/work around it
<kb9vqf_> Odd
<kb9vqf_> I assume that while it crashes no one can review the package?
<ajmitch> it makes it difficult to review :)
<kb9vqf_> :)
<kb9vqf_> Who can I ask to fix it?
<ajmitch> have you been working with the debian people about the renaming?
<kb9vqf_> Yes I have
<kb9vqf_> I contacted Michele (sp?)
 * ajmitch has taken a look at the revu problem, but RainCT is probably the most likely to know about this
<kb9vqf_> He/she hasn't worked on it in a while
<RainCT> ajmitch: which problem?
<ajmitch> I may be biased but things like this I'd rather see in Debian first
<ajmitch> RainCT: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/389-directory-server
<kb9vqf_> ajmitch: Certainly understandable
<ajmitch> it's come up before, the changelog parsing seems busted
<kb9vqf_> ajmitch But Ubuntu is missing a lot of the other packages that Debian does have, such as jss (which has already gotten one recommendation)
<ajmitch> kb9vqf_: I see that I'm still part of the alioth pkg-fedora-ds team, so can probably sponsor uploads there when ready
<kb9vqf_> ajmitch: Good! :)
<kb9vqf_> ajmitch: As you can see, my servers are almost back up and I'm resuming work on this
 * kb9vqf_ was down for way too long...
<kb9vqf_> I'll give you a poke when something is ready
<ajmitch> the debian NEW queue hasn't been moving fast recently
<ajmitch> in the meantime, I guess we can get it into ubuntu
<ajmitch> has upstream been moving fast with renaming?
<RainCT> kb9vqf_: something in your changelog is very wrong :P
<kb9vqf_> RainCT: Yeah, but what?
<kb9vqf_> Let me pastebin it
<ajmitch> RainCT: the changelog at least looks fairly standard
<kb9vqf_> RainCT: Here: http://pastebin.com/m7f997795
<kb9vqf_> dpkg-buildpackage had no problems with it
 * ajmitch just added a newline to the changelog in the directory to see if that made any difference
<RainCT> Can source package names start with a number?
<kb9vqf_> RainCT: This went through OK once, then on the second upload it failed
<ajmitch> binary packages can, at least
<RainCT> ah yes, "must start with an alphanumeric character"
<RAOF> RainCT: This has been clarified in policy 3.8.2
<kb9vqf_> Hey, it works now...what changed?
<kb9vqf_> The newline?
<RainCT> anyway, kb9vqf_: your page works now
<RainCT> no, I've added some code to catch the exception
<kb9vqf_> Thanks! :)
<ajmitch> RainCT: any idea why though?
<ajmitch> because such an exception shouldn't be raised :)
<ajmitch> python-debian is fairly old on there though
<RainCT> ajmitch: No. I've just tested it locally and on my PC it works
<ajmitch> 0.1.11 has a number of fixes from james_w about changelog parsing
<ajmitch> shouldn't be hard to backport to that old hardy system :)
<RainCT>   * Overhaul the parsing code to follow that used by dpkg-parsechangelog.py,
<RainCT>     making it much more robust.
<RainCT>     - There is now a "strict" option to turn warnings in to errors. It is
<RainCT>       on by default
<RainCT> I guess that's it
<RainCT> ajmitch: right, feel free to update the package :)
<ajmitch> installing the version from intrepid should just work, I hope
<ajmitch> ok, installed that
<ajmitch> RainCT_: ok, hopefully it should all magically work now
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-28
<micahg> andreserl: I made the patch for testdrive in Lucid to support Vbox 3.2
<andreserl> micahg, I saw it but haven't had the time to SRU it, and I might be SRUing (or probably backporting) a new upstream release with fixes
<andreserl> that I'd like to see in Luicd
<micahg> andreserl: stuff that you could backport into -updates?
<andreserl> micahg, yeah just backport from maverick to lucid
<andreserl> micahg, I'm going to upload a new upstream this week
<micahg> andreserl: that probably won't work as they're totally different versions, but crazier things have happened
<andreserl> that I'll probably request to backport, I just need to add one more feature to it
<andreserl> micahg, all the new changes to testdrive work in Lucid, since I'm coding in Lucid
<micahg> andreserl: oh, for -backports it would be fine :)
<andreserl> yeah backports :)
<micahg> andreserl: k, well, if you don't SRU anything, can you upload my fix or subscribe sponsors if you don't have the time
<EzraR> anyone seen Persia?
<EzraR> ;)
<nigelb> EzraR: yeah, he's back from vacation, but still busy apparently
<nigelb> he'll be back online in a few days
<EzraR> thank you
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<huats> morning
<BlackZ> StevenK: are you working on the opal merge?
<BlackZ> didrocks: thanks for your fix in e-d-s
<didrocks> BlackZ: you're welcome :)
<asac> if that doesnt help i will just review etc
<asac> oops
<asac> would someone be available to review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/render-bench
<asac> ?
<asac> :-P
<alf__> Hi all! Does anyone have some time for reviewing render-bench (XRender benchmark): http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/render-bench ?
<asac> persia: can you help alf__ ?
<asac> (getting connnected)
<rsajdok> I try to execute this command:
<rsajdok> debdiff fsniper_1.3.1-0ubuntu3.dsc fsniper_1.3.1-0ubuntu4.dsc > fsniper.debdiff
<rsajdok> I get error:
<rsajdok> http://paste.ubuntu.com/456410/
<rsajdok> Why? I made my gpgkey
<StevenK> rsajdok: That isn't a error, it's warning you it can't check other peoples public keys
<rsajdok> StevenK: but if a file, which I did, "fsniper_1.3.1-0ubuntu4.dsc" should not be properly checked?
<StevenK> rsajdok: If you signed that file, you shouldn't get that notice for it, yes
<Daviey> rsajdok: What are you doing with fsniper?
<rsajdok> Daviey: reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/FixSmallBugs
 * Daviey looks
<rsajdok> StevenK: I added line: 'export GPGKEY=62D51E30' to ~/.bashrc
<rsajdok> Do I have to do more something else?
<arand> rsajdok: Do you have DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL set the same as your key? And does debuild -S finish without errors?
<carstenh> rsajdok: | Warning: You do not seem to have interdiff (in the patchutils package)
<carstenh> rsajdok: you should install this
<arand> That should be in ubuntu-dev tools I assume..
<arand> *ubuntu-dev-tools (package)
<rsajdok> arand: yes, these values are the same
<carstenh> I hope not
<persia> arand: patchutils actually
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: could you use a syncpackage script for sponsorship?
<ari-tczew> oh, persia come back
<rsajdok> arand: ubuntu-dev-tools is already the newest version.
<arand> Well supposedly ubuntu-dev-tools Depends: devscripts Recommeds: patchutils, but yea, if you don't have patchutils install it...
<arand> rsajdok: Your DEB vars should be setup like so (in ~/.bashrc): http://paste.ubuntu.com/456431/
<arand> Oh, and you should have quotation marks around the space-separated vaulues as well ââ
<rsajdok> ok, I do not have installed patchutils
<rsajdok> thanks all  of you
<rsajdok> In this guide, the lack of information about the package "patchutils" https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/GetStarted/
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: what's this in relation to?
<carstenh> rsajdok: what's the output of the following command?
<carstenh> grep -i recommends /etc/apt/apt.conf /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/*
<rsajdok> carstenh: sorry, i must go home :) bye
<carstenh> nevermind ...
<carstenh> dholbachs fault ...
<carstenh> apt-get install --no-install-recommends ubuntu-dev-tools ... does of course not install patchutils
<carstenh> hmm, on the other side debdiff is not mentioned on this page, so it was not missed by him ( sorry dholbach )
<dholbach> carstenh: what are you talking about?
<carstenh> dholbach: rsajdok complained that a missed package on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/GetStarted/. this was missed due using --no-install-recommends, but since debdiff is not mentioned on this page there is not an error
<dholbach> oh, I see
<dholbach> thanks for that
<dholbach> must have missed it
<carstenh> how could you miss it if debdiff is not mentioned on this page?
<dholbach> this was a live session
<dholbach> it's very easy to make that kind of mistake
<dholbach> and luckily people usually have command-not-found installed
<dholbach> which will give them a hint
<carstenh> dholbach: the reason to highlight you was not to accuse you but to point you to this in case you want to fix it, but looks like there i nothing to fix
<dholbach> carstenh: in the session afterwards: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/FixSmallBugs
<dholbach> 17:28	dholbach	debdiff fsniper_1.3.1-0ubuntu2.dsc fsniper_1.3.1-0ubuntu3.dsc > fsniper.debdiff
<dholbach> 17:30	dholbach	you might also need the patchutils package, so please install that too
<dholbach> but I'll make sure to get it right for the session I give this time :)
<carstenh> looks like you though of everything :)
<carstenh> +t
<dholbach> carstenh: no, I guess the mistake really happened during the session
<dholbach> carstenh: but it was brought up in #ubuntu-classroom-chat so I corrected myself in #ubuntu-classroom
<dholbach> I'll test it this time in a chroot beforehand :)
<dholbach> thanks for bringing it up carstenh
<Daviey> dholbach: Next time, please don't fix a bug it seems i may have introduced pls :)
<dholbach> Daviey: what? :)
<Daviey> dholbach: I think that fsniper doc fix you did in that session was my oops.. :)
<dholbach> oh, ok :)
<Daviey> not certain.. it was a package i originally debianzed.. but someone else took it over.. so it was either me or him
<Daviey> quite exciting having a bazillion people loom at your mistake :P
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: relation?
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: i.e. what are you referring to
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: then you should ask which bug.
<ari-tczew> this is a bug 599002
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599002 in gnu-fdisk (Ubuntu) "Sync gnu-fdisk 1.2.4-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/599002
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: oh, so you are saying I should use syncpackage rather than wait for archive admins to sync?
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: would be nice
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: effect is the same
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: ok
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: you should set -n UPLOADER_NAME (me) and -b BUG
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: thanks! and as you see, we don't need waiting for archive admins :)
<ari-tczew> I encourage you to use it for other sponsorships done by you tumbleweed
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: yeah, probably will, thanks
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: no, it's me thanks for you - quick response!
<arand> It'd be great to get Bug #198724  fixed for 1010, but what is it that actually needs doing to make it happen? It seems likel it's currently just blocked for no reason (I've used a rebuilt amd64 version just fine..)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 198724 in partimage (Ubuntu) "[amd64] partimage not synced or build" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198724
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-29
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<dholbach> shadeslayer: can you please go and check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep and see if you're happy with your session title/description and update it if necessary?
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> dholbach: Somehow I would like to get mentioned in the description of Laney's talk if I am meant to be there to add some lines and be there for questions, too â¦
<dholbach> Rhonda: sure, please go ahead
<Rhonda> Also, shouldn't the "Desktop team overview" title be put into the overview table instead of "Something Desktop-ish"?  :)
<dholbach> Rhonda: just fixed that one
<Rhonda> Added "Rhonda from the Debian Project will round it up with some comments looking from the other side at it." - hope that's not over the top and will match of what I can do.
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> shall I go and add it?
<Rhonda> I just did? :)
<dholbach> oh, sorry :)
<dholbach> all good then :-D
<dholbach> awesome, I'm so looking forward to it
<Laney> Rhonda: yay
<shadeslayer> dholbach: sure thing :)
<dholbach> thanks shadeslayer! :)
<shadeslayer> dholbach: its fine with me :D
<dholbach> shadeslayer: ROCK! Thanks!
<shadeslayer> dholbach: no problemo...
<dholbach> :-D
 * shadeslayer needs member cloak now...
<dholbach> best to hop on #ubuntu-irc and talk to the folks there, they can sort you out
<shadeslayer> dholbach: was just about to press enter :P
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> persia, ttx: are the Java team meetings still happening? if not the loco directory hackers would like to claim next week thursday 14 utc in u-meeting
<ttx> dholbach: they no longer happen
<dholbach> ttx: ok, thanks - we'll claim this one then
<dholbach> they're still on the fridge calendar
<ttx> dholbach: how do you remove them ?
<dholbach> ttx: hum
<dholbach> I think they can be removed from a google calendar
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fridge/Calendar?action=show&redirect=Calendar
<ttx> dholbach: they also appear in the UWN, but probably extracted from the fridge
<dholbach> yeah, probably
<ttx> dholbach: hm, not so sure how to remove it
<ttx> dholbach: could you look into that ?
<dholbach> maybe the people in #ubuntu-news can do it
<dholbach> I never did it myself either
<ttx> yes, either the calendar owner or the one that created the original event, I suppose.
<shadeslayer> anyone got time to do a SRU?
<shadeslayer> for lucid..have to fix it in maverick too
<shadeslayer> ( will post a bug report as soon i finish it )
<shadeslayer> need SRU for bug 565376
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565376 in desktopcouch (Ubuntu) "bughugger does not work in kubuntu lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565376
<lfaraone> wgrant: how do we define the packages in http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/sugar.html ? It looks like some are left out...
<BlackZ> geser: are you working on the magicor merge?
<geser> BlackZ: no, it's yours now :)
<dupondje> StevenK: you there ?
<dupondje> sadly you can't see when somebody added a comment on MoM :(
<ajmitch> it could have been added there for karmic
<dupondje> Why is http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/icedove.html not in ubuntu ? :s
<Laney> because we hve thunderbird
<ajmitch> because it's on the sync blacklist
<micahg> dupondje: is that on MoM
<dupondje> no, it just makes we can't sync enigmail :)
<Laney> surely not, there's nowt to merge
<micahg> dupondje: we build it differently than they do
 * micahg wonders why it's not on the blacklist...will have to discuss with asac
<dupondje> feel free :D
<dupondje> whats the policy with packages that are removed in debian btw ?
<Laney> we usually follow them
<gubatron> hi, is there a dh_<something> tool to copy your postinst script? (so I don't do an ugly cp in my debian/rules)
<Laney> to copy it to where?
<gubatron> DEBIAN/
<Laney> yep, that's dh_installdeb
<gubatron> you rule Laney
<ajmitch> you shouldn't ever need to touch the DEBIAN dir at all
<gubatron> it worked, thanks Laney. ajmitch: that's what we want. The debian/rules file looks beautiful now. thanks.
<Laney> no problemo
#ubuntu-motu 2010-06-30
<AnAnt> Hello, is there an alpha release this week ?
<micahg> AnAnt: yes, alpha2
<AnAnt> ah, that's why syncrequests aren't processed then
<micahg> AnAnt: for main, yes
<AnAnt> universe
<micahg> AnAnt: well, if a MOTU is free, it can be done with the new syncrequest script
<maco> hi
<AnAnt> what new script ?
<maco> its not that new
<maco> pitti's had it kickin around for a bit
<AnAnt> micahg: how ?
 * micahg is finding
<micahg> AnAnt: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/annotate/head:/syncpackage  <-- should be in ubuntu-dev-tools
<AnAnt> ah
<AnAnt> micahg: did you try it before ?
<micahg> AnAnt: I don't have upload rights yet :)
<AnAnt> ah, ok
<micahg> AnAnt: I'm hoping to get some next week :)
<maco> AnAnt: the version in dev tools i dont think works yet. because its waiting on some lp functionality
<maco> AnAnt: you have to actually grab the script that pitti posted to ubuntu-devel
<micahg> maco: I think the script works, I know bdrung was working on it, you might need the version from trunk though
<AnAnt> maco: it works here
<maco> interesting
<maco> so they made the button on lp now then?
<micahg> maco: no
<micahg> not AFAIK anyways
<AnAnt> maco: syncpackage creates the changes file, and I dput that
<AnAnt> dunno about that LP button
<maco> hmph. thats what the original did. for a while the one in dev tools didnt do that though. it did some lplib stuff that assumed thered be a button in lp. i guess it was reverted
<maco> the button in lp never existed
<maco> so that version never worked
<AnAnt> maco: thanks for the tip
<kees> jdong: say, do you have your irssi apparmor profile available somewhere?
<jdong> kees: http://bodhizazen.net/aa-profiles/jdong/ubuntu-8.04/usr.bin.irssi it's a bit old though
<jdong> I'm not sure if that's my most recent...
<kees> heh, audio :)
<jdong> kees: heh that was the one where I had a audible ping extension
<jdong> and I either didn't feel like or didn't know about subprofiles
<jdong> unfortunately I didn't make an irssi profile for general use, just something that made me happy for my irssi config...
 * kees recommends "owner @{HOME}" in place of "/home/*" and @{PROC} in place of /proc
<jdong> absolutely; I knew you were gonna call me out on that one!
<kees> hehe
<kees> cool; it looks very similar to one I put together this afternoon.
<jdong> neat!
<jdong> personal use or for the apparmor-profiles package?
<kees> could probably go in apparmor-profiles, but I'm hoping to use it too.  maybe ship it with irssi itself :)
<jdong> awesome!
<kees> though given the perl extensions, probably not, since it would need a lot of stuff
<kees> jdong: thanks for the url; I'm off to bed.  :)
<jdong> kees: sure thing, good night!
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<EzraR> anyone want to review a package on revu? :) It got one ak already should be an easy one!
<EzraR> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<EzraR> ventrilo for linux cool app
<LLStarks> hmm. minitube isn't pulling any of its dependencies. is this intentional?
<Rhonda> what do you mean, isn't pulling any of its dependencies?
<Rhonda> If they are dependencies then it's apt's job to pull them.
 * Rhonda sighs at packages.ubuntu still not knowing about maverick properly. %-/
<LLStarks> rhonda, minitube pulls none of the dependencies it needs
<Rhonda> It's Lucid Lynx, right?
<LLStarks> it pulls nothing.
<LLStarks> lucid and maverick
<Rhonda> LLStarks: That question was independent to your issue. ;)
<Rhonda> The full name is Lucid Lynx?
<LLStarks> yes
<LLStarks> why?
<Rhonda> Updating the UbuntuBackports help page.
<Rhonda> What do people put into the debian/changelog for backports? Version number and the likes?
<Laney> Source change backport from XX to YY (LP: #zzzzzz)
<dupondje> geser: you check to sync Opal? Or should I file a sync request ?
<geser> dupondje: test building it right now
<dupondje> fine fine :)
<Rhonda> Laney: What would it read for backport wesnoth-1.8 version 1:1.8.2-1 to lucid-backports, e.g.?
<geser> dupondje: bug #600121
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600121 in opal (Ubuntu) "Sync opal 3.6.8~dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600121
<dupondje> great :)
<Laney> Rhonda: does it need changes or can you just build the M packages on L?
<Rhonda> Can someone please change bug #524490 to wont fix? That is the way that SASL works, it requires plain text stored passwords.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 524490 in ejabberd (Ubuntu) "Passwords are in plain text" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524490
<Rhonda> Laney: It doesn't require any changes, I even build it straight ahead on karmic.
<Laney> Rhonda: then you don't need to write a changelog entry at all
<Laney> just request the backports â archive admins have scripts to do no-change backports
<Rhonda> Laney: Yes, but for a test build, potential to offer through PPA for others to test?
<Rhonda> From what I understood it is encouraged to offer test packages.
 * Laney has never done this
<Rhonda> %-)
<Laney> but for a PPA I guess it's not important what you write
<Laney> * No-change backport from M to L
<Iraq> Q: How install File arichef filename.tar.gz ?step by step learn me please
<bdrung> tumbleweed: welcome in MOTU (i just got the log from the DMB meeting)
<shadeslayer> ooohhh
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: congrats :D
<tumbleweed> bdrung, shadeslayer: thanks
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i became member tho :P
<shadeslayer> will apply for MOTU in 2-3 months time :D
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: yes, do
<shadeslayer> :D
<bdrung> shadeslayer: you became ubuntu member?
<shadeslayer> bdrung: yes
<shadeslayer> bdrung: On monday
<shadeslayer> actually... Kubuntu Member
<bdrung> shadeslayer: that's why you were not on the DMB log
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> bdrung: DMB ??
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i saw that you became member of the sponsors team. welcome there too. the team needs man power. ;)
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: developer membership board - where you apply for contributing-developer / motu
<shadeslayer> oh
<tumbleweed> bdrung: thanks, I cleared out all the easy stuff from the queue
<bdrung> tumbleweed: what do you specify as easy?
<tumbleweed> but there's a lot of things in there that look like tehy'll never be sponsored
<tumbleweed> bdrung: syncs and merges
<bdrung> tumbleweed: did you played with ack-sync?
<tumbleweed> actually, no. but I have been using syncpackage
<bdrung> syncs are very easy ones ;)
<shadeslayer> hehe
<tumbleweed> yeah
<bdrung> tumbleweed: ack-sync is a wrapper around syncpackage
<tumbleweed> aah, that'd save effort
<bdrung> you just type 'ack-sync <bug-number>' and i will download the source, call syncpackage, and build it, then you press enter once and it will be uploaded
<tumbleweed> sounds way too esay :)
<bdrung> it works on my and on fabricesp's setup.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: that's why i did 164 to maverick (most of them were sponsored syncs)
<tumbleweed> heh. not that doing it by hand is much more work: almost all of the sync requests come from the same 5 people (who will presumably become motu)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: there are more than 5 people requesting syncs. it's the 90/10 rules. 90 % come from 5 people. ;)
<tumbleweed> yeah
<bdrung> tumbleweed: if you want hard work. go to http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/ and sort by date and take the oldest.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, that's what I mean about things that never look like they'll be sponsored
<bdrung> tumbleweed: old bugs don't mean that they are in the queue for a long time!
<tumbleweed> bdrung: that's true, but many of them have been pending review for a few years
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i sponsored some SRU requests for karmic that were one year old. old dosn't mean that it's not needed any more, but a lack of man power.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah, I will look into them. but it's hard not to feel that some were ignored for a reason
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i doubt that most of them were ignored for a reason. if you want to review sponsor requests for main, you can work on them and ping me if the request should be uploaded.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: over a half year ago i cleared the sponsors queue for universe (back then they were separate). some of the patches weren't needed any more, but there were still some valid ones.
<tumbleweed> bdrung: ok, thanks
<LLStarks> hi, should ndiswrapper-common be pulling in ndiswrapper-dkms and causing endless module installation loops on maverick?
<EzraR> anyone want to review a package on revu? :) It got one ak already should be an easy one!
<EzraR> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<EzraR> ventrilo for linux cool app
<^arky^> Are there any software-center developers in here?
 * ^arky^ looks around for mvo and mpt 
<tumbleweed> bdrung: why isn't ack-sync installed by ubutnu-dev-tools? (it isn't in setup.py)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: because it's neither documented, nor tested on different systems (it works with my pbuilder configuration, but yours?)
<tumbleweed> ok fair enough
<bdrung> tumbleweed: if you address these points, we can include it
 * tumbleweed better read teh source then
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and no error is catched. someone should write nice error messages.
<tumbleweed> well I'll see how many exceptions I run into
<tumbleweed> looks like it'll get on with my pbuilder
<shadeslayer> hi,anyone around?
<ari-tczew> Dear developers, as we are after DebianImportFreeze, I appeal to more frequently move syncs from ~ubuntu-archive bug-list.  Thanks.
<shadeslayer> i need help with http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=8338
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: we already have import freeze
<shadeslayer> oh :P
 * shadeslayer didnt read properly
<ari-tczew> ;]
<shadeslayer> so.. anyone around to help with that revu? itll be quick
<shadeslayer> ive fixed points 1,3,4,5,6 and 8
<tyarusso> Hi, I could use some help understanding debhelper, specifically dh_install.  Anyone around knowledgeable about that?
<c_korn> tyarusso: just ask your specific question. if someone has time and knowledge to help you he/she will do !
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: well.. i can help  abut
<shadeslayer> *a bit
<tyarusso> Okay, my issue is that it doesn't seem to be finding the files it's supposed to copy over.  Re-running to get the exact error now.
<tyarusso> Some sort of a path problem within the build environment I guess.
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: ah,you need to specify the files to install in .install files,that can be found by using dh_install --list-missing
<tyarusso> Here's the error:  dh_install: nagios-xi-agent missing files (conf/nrpe.d/*), aborting
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: what does dh_install --list-missing say?
<tyarusso> shadeslayer: dh_install: nagios-xi-agent missing files (conf/nrpe.d/*), aborting
<tyarusso> My .install btw is shown on http://paste.ubuntu.com/457500/
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: no no, run dh_install --list-missing
<shadeslayer> via console
<tyarusso> shadeslayer: I did - that second paste was the output from that.
<shadeslayer> oh..
<shadeslayer> weird
<tyarusso> What were you expecting it to say?
<tyarusso> btw, I'm building with pbuilder if that makes a difference.
<shadeslayer> well... i was expecting : dh_install : xxxx is installed in debian/tmp but not installed anywhere
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: doh!
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: one sec
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: put this hook http://pastebin.com/gp9DW5vP
<shadeslayer> in your pbuilder
<shadeslayer> then run pdebuild
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: which puts a pretty log in the parent dir,with the necessary info about missing files,then put those files in proper foo.install files
<shadeslayer> tyarusso: oh and btw #ubuntu-packaging is a better channel for this
<tyarusso> shadeslayer: um, what does this do?  My package neither involves kde4 nor uses CDBS, so perhaps this should be rewritten a bit?
<tyarusso> Wasn't aware a separate channel existed these days.  Good to know.
<shadeslayer> didnt realise that this hook was kde specific :P
<shadeslayer> uh... can someone tell tyarusso that i went to sleep? :P
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-01
<micahg> bdrung_: sorry about the vlc bug, didn't see your comment
<bdrung_> micahg: no problem
<bdrung_> micahg: making it a duplicate was a good idea
<micahg> bdrung_: thanks
<mikelifeguard> Where should I begin learning how to create a package for ubuntu?
<ChogyDan> mikelifeguard: I've been trying to figure that out myself.  I found some docs on how to unpack and then repack a package, and that's about as far as I got  :p    Wana start there?
<mikelifeguard> I found https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ... not sure how reliable documentation is from 4 years ago :s
<ChogyDan> !packaging | mikelifeguard
<ubottu> mikelifeguard: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<mikelifeguard> ah, thanks :)
 * mikelifeguard settles down for a good read
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> cjwatson: May I query you for a moment? :)
<cjwatson> Rhonda: I'm not around much until a few hours from now, but feel free to and I'll answer when I'm able
<ari-tczew> remaining merges in universe are less than in main!
<ari-tczew> \o/
<Rhonda> \o/
<Rhonda> Hmm.
<Rhonda> I thought maverick is synced from unstable?
<Rhonda> gitolite has a newer version in unstable for almost a week now?
<geser> Rhonda: yes, but we are after DIF now.
<geser> Someone has to file a sync request if this new version is worth syncing
<Rhonda> uh? already?
<Rhonda> I'll do.
<geser> DIF started Jun 24th
<Rhonda> I see, thanks for the update. :)
<Rhonda> bug #600731 - any sponsors around? git community would be thankful ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600731 in gitolite (Ubuntu) "Sync gitolite 1.5.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600731
<Rhonda> Actually I think with such early import freezes it's not really correct to brag around with "never more than six months away from the latest version of anything" on the website, to be honest.
<Rhonda> What launchpad project would I have to file a bugreport about that against?
<Laney> it's in no way guaranteed to get a new version of anything really
<Laney> ubuntu-website I think
<Rhonda> Laney: My words, so bragging around like that is on one hand marketing, on the other an quite easy to check â¦ well, let's call it "incorrectness".
<geser> does this bragging apply to universe too or only packages in main? (not sure if it's even true for main)
<Laney> "not more than 6 months at the time of release" is probably the closest you could get
<Rhonda> geser: It is on the ubuntu-and-debian page, which makes it even more false marketing and leaves a bad aftertaste.
<Rhonda> geser: It applies to "anything in the open-source world".
<Rhonda> Laney: Which still is inaccurate.
<Laney> yep
<geser> and for package in universe especially we rely on the DD updating the package so we can sync it
<Rhonda> bdrung_: Thanks  . o O ( now we are there, right?  :P )
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-02
<dholbach> good morning
<huats> morning
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> when is Thunderbird 3.1 available on 10.04 desktop ?
<kaushal> is there a plan to integrate it ?
<kaushal> I have TB 3.04
<RAOF> It may get backported once it's available in Maverick, the current development release.
<kaushal> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/
<Rhonda> kaushal: 10.04 itself is already releease, there won't be new versions added to it. Though, backports might be a possibility, but then it would first to have get packaged.
<Rhonda> Given that it would require a newer xulrunner and through that also a newer firefox I think it might rather be unlikely, though.
<Rhonda> Oh, wait, lucid already has xulrunner 1.9.2
<Rhonda> Also, it hasn't be released for a long time yet so the stability experience isn't really there yet.
<raywang> directhex, ping
<directhex> raywang, pong
<raywang> directhex, I just downloaded your lucid grub2 gfxmenu, is there any instructions about how to install it? :)
<directhex> raywang, check the README
<raywang> ah, ok
<raywang> directhex, thanks a lot, I was not aware of it :)
<raywang> sorry..
<geser> Laney: how to solve this http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51289159/upload_1850541_log.txt? drop configfile-doc from haskell-configfile?
 * Laney blinks
<Laney> I'm not sure I understand what that says
<Laney> how did that happen?
<Laney> oh, it's that weird dummy thing
<james_w> the spitting thereof?
<Laney> we introduced a haskell-dummy source package that now provides *-binary
<Laney> I am trying to recall the motivation behind this
<Laney> oh it's coming back to me
<Laney> geser: right, yes here's what it is... we're moving to standardise on libghc6-*-doc for doc package names
<Laney> these other ones are there to provide an upgrade path
<Laney> so the correct solution is to rename the binary package to libghc6-configfile-doc (in Debian, of course)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-03
<_Elbachaco> Some warm girl for sex with a Latin person
<micahg> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<micahg> thanks gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> micahg: np
<EzraR> persia: you around?
<sfkofe> hello
<sfkofe> Can check if the package "motion" is installed by default on his distrib ?
<sfkofe> @motu members   :   I think that the package "motion" souldn't been include in the default package list...
<braiamp> I need some help with the package creation: squid-prefetch only are available for squid, leaving squid3 users out. My question are:
<braiamp> If I modify the package to only works for squid3, what version it should have?
<braiamp> Second: The original maintainer should be who modify/create the package?
<Laney> geser: I fixed that bug in Debian btw, awaits sponsoring now
<shadeslayer> m
<geser> Laney: thanks; do you know if some haskell package need a longer time out on armel or is it a real bug? e.g. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51127163/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-armel.haskell-src-exts_1.8.2-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laney> geser: It's a problem, arguably, in GHC. We've been applying a fix/workaround in Debian for some of them, but haven't gotten around to doing all of them so far
<Laney> for src-exts you can look at syncing the new version
<Laney> but yeah it's a known problem that slow arches have trouble building big packages unfortunately
<Laney> I'll probably blitz the Haskell stuff in the next couple of weeks btw
<Rhonda> Laney: sponsoring in Debian, or in ubuntu?
<Rhonda> I don't understand the last response in bug #556148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 556148 in wesnoth (Ubuntu) "After removing game still some files are left." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556148
<Rhonda> Though, I guess I can safely ignore it as it's marked invalid anyway.
<JontheEchidna> I think he thinks that purging a package should do what he wants. (But it only removes config stuff from /etc)
<Rhonda> Right, but that was already answered.
<Rhonda> I even have troubles parsing the sentence properly.
<JontheEchidna> I think he wants to know which files purge would remove, if they don't remove the ones in ~/
<JontheEchidna> I do not get his last sentence, no matter how I look at it
<Rhonda> I don't like to get user questions unanswered, especially not in "my" packages.  %-)
<arand> Rhonda: I guess it's just a continuation: "What does purge remove? Where is the stuff purge removes?" And last just a statement "I thought purge removed ~/.config"
<Rhonda> Right. I hope my response is helpful and gets through.
<arand> Rhonda: User Kangarooo is present in #ubuntu-bugs btw
<Rhonda> arand: You told me that, guided me there, then send me "bummer"? I don't get it â¦
<tdev> hi everyone :)
<tdev> could i someone possibly motivate to be package maintainer for our software?
<lfaraone> There is an upstream group that makes a series of predicatable, six-month stable releases with a number of bugfix releases in between. These updates do not introduce any new features. Would it be possible to work out something with the Ubuntu release team to ease the update proceedure for these packages?
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-04
<ScottK> lfaraone: It needs tech board approval, but in theory, yes.
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> Any idea why this watch file isn't working anymore?       version=3
<RainCT> http://sourceforge.jp/projects/julius/files/index.php /projects/julius/downloads/(?:\d+)/julius-([0-9a-z\.]+)\.tar\.gz
<tumbleweed> RainCT: why don't you use the sf.net redirector?
<RainCT> tumbleweed: cause it's for sourceforge.net, not sourceforge.jp
<tumbleweed> duh :)
<tumbleweed> RainCT: anyway, the answer is that they have a trailing / in each href
<RainCT> oh, indeed
<RainCT> tumbleweed: Thanks.
<tumbleweed> np
<abhi_nav> shadeslayer, : ping
<abhi_nav> shadeslayer, you there?
<abhi_nav> ok anyone here free to talk?
<abhi_nav> regarding I want to update a package.
<abhi_nav> :(
<abhi_nav> may I recommend a package to update?
<abhi_nav> hey anyone please respond. asldfasjfkjd0
<abhi_nav> anyone free to update a package?
<jpds> !weekend | abhi_nav
<ubottu> abhi_nav: It's a weekend. Often on weekends the paid developers and a lot of the community may not be around to answer your question. Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would or try again during the working week.
<abhi_nav> what ? weekend? xxx ?
<abhi_nav> is this channel for paid developers? I just want to suggest one package to update
<abhi_nav> great in channel but not respoing. now m leaving. shadeslayer if anytime you come and if have my msg plsg try to come in #ubuntu. :(
<abhi_nav> bye
<IdleOne> abhi_nav: the same guidelines apply in this channel as in all Ubuntu irc channels. Please be patient.
<jpds> ....
<IdleOne> errr
<shadeslayer> well....
<shadeslayer> if he would have just mentioned what package :P
<bluefoxicy> thunderbird is great
<bluefoxicy> when you hit "reply" to a really fucking long message, it hangs for 15 minutes.
<bluefoxicy> at 100% CPU
<micahg> !language | bluefoxicy
<ubottu> bluefoxicy: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<ricardo_arroyo> hi i want to know how to put a version of a program
<ricardo_arroyo> i clone glide and i want to put the day of the program in the deb
<ricardo_arroyo> something like glide_0.1-0 git20100701
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-27
<samd> hi, im in the process of making my first deb package. The software im packing has no version, what version should i put?
<arand> samd: What software is it, is it taken from a revision control of some sort?
<arand> samd: Normally, one would use the date of the release as a stand-in version
<samd> arand: yes, its mjpg-streamer, it was taken from the svn repository because it was the only source i found, if i download the tar.gz package from them, they use "r150" as 'version' where 150 is the last commit
<arand> As an example I am using "lugaru-data_0~20110520.1+hge4354-1" for a game from mercurial (hg) with no versioning currently
<samd> arand: alright, sounds good, ill use the date
<arand> samd: So following that it would be "0~$date.1+svn150-1" or something to that effect
<samd> arand: sounds good, thank you very much, ill continue with the packing
<samd> arand: im following the guide from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
<arand> samd: Alternatively r150, I think that might just be your preference
<samd> arand: i tried that , but for some reason dh_make didnt recognized "r150" as a version, i might had it wrote wrong, but i changed the version to 1.0 just to see, and it worked.
<arand> dh_make might be a bit more strict there.. you can always change it afterwards in the changelog though
<arand> I meant 0~$date.1+r150-1 is also an alternative
<samd> arand: alright, , i think i will go and try with  0~$date.1+r150-1
<arand> (replacing $date with the date of the commit, just to note)
<samd> yeah, something like YYYYMMDD i got that
<tumbleweed> no need to include both a date and a commit number. one of the two will suffice
<samd> oh ok
<arand> I'm not sure but I've had some discussions with debian folks who are of the opinion that the revision number is not relevant at all, I personally think it is though, even in the case of hashes, ah, there we go ^ :)
<tumbleweed> 0~YYYYMMDD-1 or 0~svn12-1 (or bzr) are both sensible versions
<samd> i see, what does the 0~ mean?
<arand> It allows for any kind of 0something to be a higher version than 0~something
<tumbleweed> revision number is not a good idea for git (where the number of revisions is variable), but svn, bzr and hg have monotonic revision numbers (within a single tree, in hg and bzr, assuming no rebasing or commit removal)
<tumbleweed> 0~ is smaller than 0
<samd> i see
<arand> So basically, it means that you don't have to worry about upstream releasing a 0.0.0.0.0.1 version, it will always be greater than 0~
<samd> got it
<samd> let me try to build the package , ill probably throw out more questions as i advance.  thank you!
 * tumbleweed is going to bed, enjoy :)
<Laney> morning
<Laney> (in before dholbach who isn't evne here!)
<geser> morning
<vish> Laney: he is at Dublin sprint, so â¦ that might be the delay
<Laney> vish: I am going to claim this as a victory nonetheless. :-)
<vish> :D
<nigelb> Laney: got a min for a PM?
<Laney> yeah
<nigelb> I made a mistake in the spelling of a word in the dep-3 patch tagging guidelines.
<nigelb> Do I send a patch to debian or should I just leave it
<Laney> the guidelines themselves?
<tumbleweed> one presumes debian package maintainers all read the patches they receive and edit if necessary
<tumbleweed> also, not much actulaly depends on having valid dep3 headers
<Laney> assuming not, I'd just reply to the bug and point it out (if it's not archived)
<nigelb> Ok, I'll add a reply to the bug
<nigelb> \o/ DD replies back with thanks and he fixed it in git :-)
<Laney> sweet
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-28
<micahg> ScottK: are you around to reject an SRU from the queue?
 * micahg hugs whoever did that :)
<ScottK> micahg: Sure.  What is it?
 * Rhonda hugs micahg. Just because.
<micahg> ScottK: hmm, someone seems to have already taken care of it, thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome.  It was tough, but I managed.
<micahg> :)
 * micahg hugs Rhonda 
<Rhonda> Who is coming to debconf, btw?
<Rhonda> Oh, I need to renew my membership
<Rhonda> Oh, that's a single click, I thought it would require attending another irc session. nice :)
<StevenK> Rhonda: It does if you wait too long. :-)
<hrw> hi
<hrw> is it normal that launchpad is unable to set 'fix released' for debian tracked bugs?
<hrw> bug 739151 is fixed in ubuntu (fix released status) and in debian (fix commited status)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 739151 in dpkg-cross (Debian) "dpkg-cross does not do sensible things with multi-arch: same packages" [Unknown,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739151
<tumbleweed> I haven't seen launchpad follow debian bts changes recentely
<persia> Did something change to break it?
<hrw> my bug got closed in debian on 11 May 2011 so thats why I wondered
<hrw> will ask on #launchpad
<persia> That's a lot of latency
<hrw> LP team has a high priority bug to fix it
 * Rhonda reported Debian BTS tracking issues in #launchpad before and got the impression that it's not really of interest.
<lifeless> Rhonda: it is of interest; there are very few people familiar with it
<lifeless> Rhonda: and tbh its a bit of a pain to sync with
<Rhonda> Doesn't the soap interface offer what is wanted/needed?
<Rhonda> I think there is even an rsync-able area with the raw data.
<lifeless> Rhonda: the raw data is split into a 'live' and 'archive' data set
<lifeless> Rhonda: AIUI this causes us some headaches tracking things
<hrw> ok. eglibc for lucid rebuild started
<hrw> hope that SRU process does not takes ages
<ScottK> It's eglibc. What could go wrong?
<Rhonda> hmm. I wonder whether I should drop the idea of applying for PPU rights.
<geser> Rhonda: why?
<Rhonda> Because it looks like noone is interested in endorsing (?) me.
 * Rhonda . o O ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication FWIW )
<Laney> i'll add one, but then it might mean i should abstain from voting ;-)
<geser> Laney: hopefully not the complete DMB add endorsements else we have a problem
<Laney> pass it up to the TB...
<Laney> well, I can't actually log into the wiki
<lucidfox> I thought Rhonda was a MOTU already?
<Laney> this is for PPU
<sladen> Rhonda: 2 months with no sponsors. Crikey
<Laney> I would have done if I'd paid more attention :(
<Rhonda> sladen: I wasn't very pushy about it, to be honest.
<Rhonda> Maybe I should blog about it and trigger some readers from planet.ubuntu. ;)
<Rhonda> lucidfox: MOTU is fine, but there are three packages that I maintain in Debian that are in Ubuntu main - and thus MOTU doesn't help here. :)
<lucidfox> ahhh, I see
<sladen> Rhonda: I would be _more_ pushy about it
<Rhonda> sladen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GerfriedFuchs/DeveloperApplication now, hush hush!
<sladen> Rhonda: 'ts already.  I'll send you the bill later
<sladen> Rhonda: 'ts alright.  I'll send you the bill later
<Rhonda> ;)
<ScottK> Rhonda: Did I sponsor any uploads for you?
<psusi> soren: it seems that netcat-openbsd immediately shuts down the socket and exits when it encounters eof on stdin when you pipe the output of echo to it.  Is this a bug, or intended behavior?
<psusi> soren: I would think it should wait for the remote side to shutdown the socket before close()ing it and exit()int
<Rhonda> ScottK: irssi :)
<shockrates> hey
<shockrates> can someone please add those 2 deb packages (pcsxr_1.9.92-1_i386.deb and pcsxr_1.9.92-1_amd64.deb) in ubuntu repository? http://pcsxr.codeplex.com/releases/view/50048
<shockrates> it has been tested by a lot of people in the ubuntu community/forums and it works good
<shockrates> i am not very familiar with ubuntu as its not my main os
<shockrates> someone who is and is capable of doing it, please upload those 2 deb packages. thanks
<directhex> shockrates, random .debs aren't uploaded (or uploadable) to ubuntu. only source packages can be uploaded, whereupon the ubuntu build servers build the debs
<micahg> ugh, user left too fast and oneiric already has a higher version
<directhex> typical
<soren> psusi: theres a bug report on the subject. im typing on my phone, so id rayher not elaborate a whole lot here.
<psusi> soren: I found it
<soren> short version: its intended, but its controversial.
<psusi> soren: it seems that the issue was resolved by having -q default to -1, though I'm stil thinking that even when you time out, the correct thing to do is just shutdown() and wait for the other end to finish sending any output and hangup, rather than shutdown() and immeditely exit()
<ScottK> Rhonda: Is that one of the ones you're asking PPU for?
<micahg> tumbleweed: are these new ftbfs bugs just off of the regular upload build failures?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-29
<tumbleweed> micahg: it was regular FTBFS from nigelb and iamfuzz's list of linker-failure bugs worthy of jamming (nigelb blogged about the jam)
<tumbleweed> (and I was playing with svammel)
<micahg> what is svammel?
<tumbleweed> micahg: automated bug filing script (doko used it to file most of the linker related ftbfs bugs in launchpad)
<micahg> ah, cool
<alegomaster> I am sort of confused
<samd> hi, how could i make a deb package to pop a "do you want to reboot?" dialog after installing the deb
<Rhonda> ScottK: Yes, that's one of those three.
<arand> When's the last Automatic sync from Debian happining, still time for a package just accepted in Debain to sync over without specific request?
<micahg> arand: should be tomorrow according to the release schedule
<arand> micahg: Yeah, I guessed there would be one last sync on the 30th, just making sure :)
<ScottK> Rhonda: Application endorsed.
<Rhonda> Thanks!
<tumbleweed> I wibblymat started ftbfs jamming :)
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: sagan uses 3.0 (quilt), I think you should make that change with a quilt patch
<Rhonda> tumbleweed: I thought dpkg-source does create a quilt patch automatically when it finds modified upstream sources
<Rhonda> From my understanding that's one of the core features of v3?
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: it does, but unless one tidies those up, they are ugly (even lintian complains about them these days)
<Rhonda> Your wording sounded differently, thanks for the explenaition.
<tumbleweed> thanks for making me explain then :)
<tumbleweed> anyway, as this is wibblymat's first upload (that I can see), I'll take care of it
<nigelb> I forgot how much I liked looking at pbuilder terminal output scroll by ;)
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: I'm pretty new to packaging and I'm nto really sure what quilt is... is there a primer somewhere?
<Rhonda> Is it in green on black in strange hyroglypehes, nigelb ?
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Ninjas/QuiltMagic
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<nigelb> Rhonda: No :)
<wibblymat> Yep, saw the notice about the jam the other day, saw the bugs go in last night, just dived in. Didn't see any activity about it in here though so was thinking it was just me :)
<nigelb> I'm just about to start :)
<nigelb> well, actually I'm building one of the packages I was working on
<nigelb> Hopefully, I'll get help to finish this one today
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: it *was* just you, but we had to start somewhere :P
<Rhonda> nigelb: Do you understand the reference, or are you too young for that?
<nigelb> Rhonda: Matrix wasn't that long ago :)
<Rhonda> It feels like :)
<nigelb> Rhonda: *gasp*, 13 years.
<Rhonda> There were all harry potter movies since.
<Rhonda> See.
<tumbleweed> eek, I'm feeling old now
<Rhonda> There is this youngster from over here who back then worked on nmap which shortly was seen in the movie
<Rhonda> â¦ and he is far from a youngster these days.
<nigelb> nmap is the port scanner right?
<Rhonda> yes
<highvoltage> there are kids who do homework assignments on 9/11/2001... and it happened before they were born!
<nigelb> Ok, out with nostalgia!
<LetoThe2nd> hello! I just noticed that the gsoap package is heavily outdated. any chances of bumping the version a bit?
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: I think LDFLAGS should also have gone before LDADD and LIBS
<Rhonda> LetoThe2nd: Given that the package has been uploaded twice so far by someone else than the maintainer in Debian - I guess it might be looking for someone new to look after it.
 * Rhonda . o O ( And it is the same since the lenny release in Debian, yuck )
<LetoThe2nd> Rhonda: yea, thats what i also suspected reading between the lines :-/
 * Rhonda . o O ( uh oh, I know the maintainer personally ..... )
<LetoThe2nd> Rhonda: poke him/her with a sharp stick! :-)
<Rhonda> Haven't heard or seen him since a long time though. He's just also from Austria like me.
<LetoThe2nd> hm, if the stick is long enough i can poke myself ... (bavaria)
<Rhonda> There is this strange thing in Austria with DDs, they seem to fade away without a trace at some point.
<Rhonda> off
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: I'm not really a C developer so I just did what worked. Is putting the LDFLAGS just tidier or does it make a difference to the output?
<nigelb> cdbs: ping
<jtaylor> has somebody already looked at cppcheck?
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: LDFLAGS should come before the shared objects (LIBS and LDADD). gcc + ld didn't care about this in the past, so many C developers don't know this :)
<LetoThe2nd> Rhonda: sorry?
<nigelb> Rhonda: You're in Austria, for some reason I had it my head that you're in Germany :)
<tumbleweed> yes, some LDFLAGS, like --as-needed act on things that come after them
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: Here's what I did: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu/oneiric/sagan/ftbfs-jam
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: what's left now before uploading to Ubuntu is to forward the bug to Debian and/or upstream
<Laney> anyone know how to make sbuild honour http_proxy?
<tumbleweed> Laney: you can tell it what environment variables to pass through (I thought)
<Laney> aha
<Laney> in schroot.conf maybe
<Laney> nope :/
<jtaylor> cppcheck fixed, forwarding patch to debian
<nigelb> cdbs: ping
<nigelb> cdbs: I'm setting up tarmac for community web projects. Let me know if you want it done for hof.
 * tumbleweed needs to stop getting distracted
<nigelb> okay, buildign scratchbox
<jtaylor> any specific usertags that should be used for as-needed bugs?
<tumbleweed> as-needed sounds good
<jtaylor> hm debian-gcc and ld-as-needed exists
<jtaylor> I'll use that
<tumbleweed> they weren't auto-tagged, because they aren't the only thing that can create undefined references, I think
<Laney> User: debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<jtaylor> see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=605839
<Laney> Usertags: ld-as-needed
<ubottu> Debian bug 605839 in fontforge "FTBFS with ld --as-needed" [Normal,Fixed]
<tumbleweed> neither one already exists
<tumbleweed> (in ubuntu)
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: Ok, had a play with quilt. Looks like there is no (easy) way to do it retrospectively if you've already changed the code though?
<tumbleweed> yeah, no easy way
<jtaylor> should the forwarded patch be registered somewhere in ubuntu?
<wibblymat> Ok, will just have to remember to what-patch before I start :)
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: also, Makefile.in is an auto-generated file, one wants to fix configure.in and regenerate it
<wibblymat> As my old maths teacher used to say: You only learn from your mistakes, and boy are we learning today!
<tumbleweed> which gets a little more complicated
<jtaylor> ah there is a bug in ubuntu I can use
<nigelb> okay, so I moved things around the makefile for scratchbox2, but it still fails.
<jtaylor> when stupid launchpad would react! ._.
<nigelb> Build log http://paste.ubuntu.com/635102/, and the diff of what I did http://paste.ubuntu.com/635103/
<nigelb> If anyone can help figure out, that'd be rad
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: excuse me, I must have had my head in the clouds. The issue here is that configure is being called with a LDFLAGS containing libraries. That's wrong. So, change that to LIBS in debian/rules
<tumbleweed> no need for any patches
<wibblymat> tumbleweed:
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: lp:~wibblymat/ubuntu/oneiric/sagan/ld-as-needed more like it
<wibblymat> ?
<tumbleweed> yes, looks good
<tumbleweed> but aim it at natty rather that oneiric
<tumbleweed> err other way around :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: could you look at my scratchbox build failure?
<tumbleweed> can do, one minute
<nigelb> \o/
 * jtaylor doing sslsniff
<wibblymat> Ok, new merge proposal for sagan (#803194). I'll look at the other two pacakges I did and check I haven't made the same mistakes!
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: Thanks for your contribution to Ubuntu (uploaded)
<nigelb> wibblymat: \o/ Congrats!
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: I also added a space between LP: #XXXX (otherwise it won't close the bug)
<wibblymat> Woo :)
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: verified that my xfe suggestions work
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: Ok, working on that now
<tumbleweed> nigelb: that's a weird amkefile
<nigelb> tumbleweed: yeah :|
<nigelb> Its also weird package
<nigelb> packaged natively, then made non-native, no orig.tar
<tumbleweed> that's probably uploader-error
<jtaylor> was there some change in launchpad?
<jtaylor> it does not work with opera anymore :/
<jtaylor> and firefox also has some weird artefacts
<tumbleweed> nigelb: you want -I in CFLAGS
<ruhil> i just upgraded natty to oneiric and could not find the tray. Is it not there in oneiric or have i messed up something?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: ah, move all the -I flags back to CFALGS?
<nigelb> *CFLAGS
<jtaylor> sslsniff patch forwarded
 * micahg thanks jtaylor for doing sslsniff
<tumbleweed> nigelb: yeah
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: would you mind forwarding the sagan patch to debian, as it was a bug in the packaging? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs#Using_submittodebian_to_forward_patches_to_Debian
<jtaylor> hm sslsniff is in the archive  but not sslstrip :(
<nigelb> hrm, now the debuild -S -sa fails.
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: Sure thing
<nigelb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/635132/
<tumbleweed> nigelb: looks like a syntax errro
 * jtaylor alienblaster
<nigelb> tumbleweed: doh, right.
<nigelb> fixed
<nigelb> Everytime, I type my GPG key password, I remember james_w's really really long password that he tried to type at UDS :)
<Laney> some of my passphrases include compose key sequences
<tumbleweed> nigelb: -uc -us ftw
<Laney> they take a few attempts usually :-(
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Got too used to signing it :)
<nigelb> bah
<nigelb> build failed again
<jtaylor> alienblaster forwarded
<nigelb> latest build failure http://paste.ubuntu.com/635135/, and my smaller patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/635136/
<jtaylor> nigelb: can you post the compiler line that produces that error
<nigelb> jtaylor: the makefile line?
<jtaylor> no the expanded line when executing the makefile
<jtaylor> you can probably get it with make VERBOSE=1
<nigelb> jtaylor: manually?
<nigelb> like without pbuilder?
<jtaylor> yes, but maybe the makefile line helps me too
<nigelb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/635139/
<nigelb> this is the makefile line
<jtaylor> that line has no libraries linked
<jtaylor> are they placed in LDFLAGS?
<nigelb> I dont see LDFLAGS defined
<jtaylor> do you know where that symbol is defined?
<nigelb> probably in the parent makefile
<nigelb> looking
<jtaylor> no I mean the undefined reference
<jtaylor> urg that package ahs no orig.tar
<jtaylor> but its not native
<nigelb> jtaylor: yeah
<nigelb> jtaylor: its a messed up package
<nigelb> all I see is "LDFLAGS += $(MACH_CFLAG)"
<jtaylor> the fix is to reorder the dependencies in that makefiel
<jtaylor> the .o before the .so
<nigelb> ahh
<nigelb> jtaylor: the makefile in utils?
<jtaylor> yes
<nigelb> okay, I don't see .so files
<jtaylor> - $(D)/sb2-interp-wrapper: preload/libsb2.$(SHLIBEXT) $(D)/sb2-interp-wrapper.o
<jtaylor> + $(D)/sb2-interp-wrapper: $(D)/sb2-interp-wrapper.o preload/libsb2.$(SHLIBEXT)
<nigelb> ahh
<nigelb> further proves that I need to learn more about gcc and make :(
<jtaylor> the .o file needs the symbol in the library (.so)
<jtaylor> as-needed is positional, so when a so comes before the objects needing it it will drop the library
<jtaylor> the .o needing the symbols must come before thy library providing them
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: it's "ld --as-needed" or "-Wl,--as-needed" rather than "--ld-as-needed"
<nigelb> jtaylor: thanks for the quick help and the lesson :)
<nigelb> scratchbox fixed \o/
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: Ugh, where did I write that?
 * jtaylor pads
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: xfe
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: I'd also mention that you had to use dh_autoreconf
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: and $@ comes before the --with (yes, dh is weird)
<wibblymat> Ah, now thats interesting. When I put it before $@ I got errors
<wibblymat> About "options before sequence" or somethign similar
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: that's exactly the error it gives now
<wibblymat> Oh, wait, you're agreeing with what I said. I think you just have an old branch
<wibblymat> I've been working on that one
<hyperair> um $@ comes after the --with.
<wibblymat> old revision of the same branch, rather
<hyperair> that's how i've always done it.
<tumbleweed> hyperair: compat 8 or later doesn't allow that
<hyperair> tumbleweed: oh seriously, wtf for?
<wibblymat> Oh, hang on, I may have accidentally regressed
<tumbleweed> stylistic reasons? :)
<hyperair> meh =\
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: Ok, it was me after all, I hadn't committed that change after all
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: btw, did you submit the sagan patch to debian? (or did you run into trouble with reportbug?)
<jtaylor> pads forwarded
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: It should be forwarded
<jtaylor> all so simple problems, it takes longer to write the email than to write the patch :/
<wibblymat> tumbleweed: I used jtaylor's cppcheck report as a template :)
<nigelb> okay, scratchbox forwarded
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: oh, I see it now
<tumbleweed> great
<nigelb> and debdiff uploaded
<jtaylor> oO interesting a new problem
<jtaylor> tenance needs -fopenmp
<jtaylor> weird it worked before
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: OK, xfe patch looks good. This one should be sent all the way upstream (and to debian, if possible)
<jtaylor> anyone know what fopenmp does besides linking gomp?
<jtaylor> hm nevermind its a classical as-needed problem afterall
<jtaylor> tenance forwarded
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: vacation needs a space between LP: and #
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: you are picking these off rediculously fast :)
<jtaylor> its all just library reordering
<tumbleweed> yeah, that is a fair number of them
<nigelb> picking up opencity
<jtaylor> still ought to forward the patches upstream though
<tumbleweed> looks like upstream already dealt with cppcheck, that's a start
<jtaylor> so forwarded bugs which have bug trackers wher eI have an account
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: yeah, that's generally what I do (or mail the upstream). I expect the Debian package maintainer to have a relationship with upstream, so I'm happy to just report there if the upstream isn't easy to contact
<wibblymat> I've created a bug in sourceforge for xfe. Does it need linking to LP in some way, or is it fire and forget?
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: I'd mention it in th LP bug. One can't link unless the project is registered in LP
<tumbleweed> wibblymat: if you do a quilt patch, mentioning where you've forwarded it in the patch header is a good idea: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/
<jtaylor> and mark it forwarded in the debian bug
<jtaylor> so last one for now: mooproxy
<jtaylor> done
<tumbleweed> nigelb: seeing that scratchbox2 has no patch system, I think a far more descriptive changelog entry is required (and wouldn't have been a bad idea anyway)
<tumbleweed> nigelb: also, please link the LP bug to the Debian one :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: waiting for BTS to give me the bug number
<nigelb> tumbleweed: suggestions on what needs to go in?
<tumbleweed> ah, it's debian bug 632103
<ubottu> Debian bug 632103 in scratchbox2 "scratchbox2: Fails to build from source" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/632103
<nigelb> why didn't BTS mail me :\
<tumbleweed> probably just e-mail being slow...
<nigelb> how does this sound? "Fixed FTBFS. Changed the ordering of libs in the Makefile in utils folder."
<tumbleweed> and it should mention the LP bug
<tumbleweed> this isn't ordering of libs, so much as libs in CFLAGS
<james_w> changing the order of libs is what you did, but anyone can see that from the diff, the changelog should explain *why* you did that
<james_w> why did that order cause the build failure? why doesn't the new one?
<nigelb> ahh
<micahg> tumbleweed: unfortunately, I can't help much on the FTBFS jam today, but I can help with syncing from Debian for the fixed packages if you like
<tumbleweed> micahg: np. I haven't actually fixed any myself today, just been reviewing
<nigelb> micahg: if you're aroudn toe help minions like me fixing, that helps too ;)
<micahg> nigelb: nope, sorry, busy with other updates ATM
<nigelb> np :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: I think we can announce that the jam is going to continue for a week.
<tumbleweed> yeah, I kind of said that in the e-mail
<nigelb> I'll post a status update onto planet and announce that
<nigelb> tumbleweed: Updated the patch
<tumbleweed> nigelb: that's better, although I'd still say "FTBFS with ld --as-needed" instead of toolchain change
<nigelb> tumbleweed: hang on, updating :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: done :)
<nigelb> ok, so now I'm dealing with opencity which uses autotools
<Rhonda> nigelb: Don't become insulting  :P
<tumbleweed> autotools packages usually have the mistake in configure.ac (or sometimes one of the Makefile.am s)
<Rhonda> LetoThe2nd: I meant that I'm going offline. :)
<jtaylor> usually LDFLAGS where it should be LIBS
<jtaylor> but its a little problematic to patch when they don't use autoreconf :/
<tumbleweed> dh_autoreconf to the rescue :)
<tumbleweed> nigelb: uploaded, thanks
<nigelb> \oo/
<nigelb> erm
<nigelb> \o/
<nigelb> Rhonda: :D
 * tumbleweed looks at a concice but ugly jtaylor patch, and decides its time to go home
<nigelb> This is going to be tricky.
<nigelb> I don't see anything problematic
<jtaylor> ugly in which respect?
<jtaylor> don't we want to wait for debian maintainer reaction?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: ugly in that it's a workaround rather than an upstreamable patch
<jtaylor> which one?
<tumbleweed> sslsniff
<jtaylor> yeah that one is ugly
<jtaylor> package does not use autoreconf and I think it is up to the maintainer to do that
<tumbleweed> heh
<nigelb> is the maintainer Rhonda ? ;)
<tumbleweed> Also, isn't there a difference between -pthread and -lpthread?
<tumbleweed> (theoretically)
<jtaylor> yes, I just pasted what is in the Makefile.am
<nigelb> tumbleweed: do you know of an autotools-related package fixed so I could take pointers on how to/where to look
<jtaylor> look for LDFLAGS first
<tumbleweed> nigelb: today's xfe patch
<nigelb> jtaylor: not there in any of the makefile.am
<tumbleweed> probably in configure.ac then
 * tumbleweed will look when I get home, brb
<nigelb> oh
<nigelb> LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS $SDL_LIBS"
<Rhonda> nigelb: pah!  I'll tell manoj!
<jtaylor> thats wrong
<nigelb> Rhonda: :)
<nigelb> jtaylor: ah, configure is full of that :|
<nigelb> move all of that to LIBS?
<jtaylor> just a note on my patches, they are intentional minimal, just showing whats wrong
<jtaylor> My intention is that the debian maintainer will adapt it to its needs, the bug usually contains information on what I consider a better fix
<jtaylor> nigelb: if there are only libs then yes
<nigelb> jtaylor: mostly. ran into one fugly situation now.
<jtaylor> I'm not sure if it has consequences when you put a linker flag in the LIBS variable
<nigelb> LDFLAGS="-L$with_gl_prefix/lib $enable_gprof $LDFLAGS"
<nigelb> is this real linker flag?
<jtaylor> -L should be fine in libs
<nigelb> and there is this
<nigelb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/635222/
<jtaylor> should also be fine
<jtaylor> good pkg-config --libs should not have any positional ldflags in it
<jtaylor> expands to something like this: -L/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu -lpng12
<nigelb> ah
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: the problem with that approach is that when the package doesn't FTBFS on Debian, the maintainer often doesn't care. We'd like the upstream to include the right fix as soon as possible, so it makes sense to prepare it
<jtaylor> lets see if a maintainer reacts
<jtaylor> if its to slow I might provide proper patches
<aonyx> tumbleweed: I am officially poking you.
<aonyx> it is David btw
<tumbleweed> aonyx: hi
<tumbleweed> yay for a south african presence :)
<aonyx> :)
<aonyx> I was wondering if you could point out a particularly easy package for me
<tumbleweed> sure, let me find one. In the meantime, here's some background: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033619.html
<tumbleweed> things have just started quieting down, we had a relativly busy last few hours
<tumbleweed> aonyx: ok, xbill is quite easy to fix but it uses autoconf, which makes things a little more complicated. Let me see if I can find something easier
<tumbleweed> aonyx: ah, even easier, tabix, bug 803202
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 803202 in tabix (Ubuntu) "tabix version 0.2.5-1 failed to build on i386" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803202
<aonyx> awesome, thanks tumbleweed.
<nigelb> opencity done, forwarded to debian and upstream.
<nigelb> bug 771091, if anyone wants to sponsor (its on the queue anyway)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 771091 in opencity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "opencity version 0.0.6.2stable-1 failed to build on amd64 with GCC-4.6/oneiric" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771091
<Laney> nigelb: you shouldn't use RC severity unless the FTBFS actually happens in Debian too
<nigelb> Laney: argh. Wrong key. I was sending them with important.
<jtaylor> as-needed failures are more minor or even wishlist as debian does not use that default
<nigelb> I thought debian was also transitioning with us
<nigelb> Laney: changing it now
<jtaylor> no, only --no-copy-dt-needed
<nigelb> ah
<jtaylor> although its probably possible that that will change
<jtaylor> especially when everything builds in ubuntu
<tumbleweed> but generally speaking, if you haven't verified that the package won't build on debian, don't file an RC bug :)
<nigelb> tumbleweed: I used submittodebian, so I think I pressed the wrong number.
<tumbleweed> fair enough :)
<Laney> you can downgrade it
<nigelb> Anyway, just mailed control to downgrade it
<Laney> bts severity xxxxxxx minor
<Laney> nice one
<nigelb> Laney: thanks for pointing it out.
<nigelb> Its 3 am, fine details are escaping me :P
<Laney> someone moaned in #debian-devel
<jtaylor> a python guy, but with good reason, python apps break easily thanks to as-needed
<jtaylor> there are several still broken in natty due to the phase with as-needed
<jtaylor> they don't ftbs but instead break at runtime thanks to dlopen ._.
<nigelb> phew, severity downgraded to normal.
 * tumbleweed tends to use minor for these
<nigelb> doh
<nigelb> next time!
<wibblymat> Oops, I put the wrong bug number in the changelog for xfe so it hasn't auto closed :s
 * tumbleweed isn't good about checking such things
<jtaylor> the .pc file is in the debian patch
<jtaylor> you should avoid that in future
<wibblymat> Ah, ok
<tumbleweed> that sounds like bzr + 3.0 (quilt) which is messy...
<wibblymat> A lot of things I've seen in my first week of digging in to Ubuntu has been messy or complicated :)
<nigelb> I'm staying away from bzr when quilt is involved
 * tumbleweed wonders about tweaking submittodebian to unapply patches and filter .pc
<Laney> does it present the diff to you for review?
<tumbleweed> the problem I have with it is that the patch it prepares never gets to my mutt, so I always attach a patch I prepared myself
<tumbleweed> err yes it does let you edit the diff, IIRC
<hakermania> Hello, till when can we post in REVU?
<hakermania> And please can anybody explain me how this was advocated? it looks so crazy with so many errors: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plymouth-manager
<micahg> hakermania: it's not in the archive
<micahg> hakermania: and until feature freeze
<tumbleweed> oh, btw jtaylor: BTS doesn't allow usertags for two users to be set by pseudo-headers, so your origin-ubuntu usertag wouldn't have been applied
<jtaylor> ._.
<jtaylor> saw it in a different bug and copied it
<jtaylor> will fix later
<tumbleweed> I assume you want to wait for debian maintainter responses, rather than having anyone sponsor them in ubuntu yet?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> unless there is reason for haste?
<tumbleweed> not particularly for most of those packages
<jtaylor> how do I clone a github pull request? :/
<tumbleweed> clone the source repository?
<jtaylor> I can't find a link on the page
<tumbleweed> IIRC github pull requests have links to the source and destination
 * jtaylor to stupid to find it
<jtaylor> just edited to url to get to the source
#ubuntu-motu 2011-06-30
<tumbleweed> nigelb: still awake?
<jtaylor> how do I figure out where the file for an autoconf macro is
<jtaylor> found it
<EvilPhoenix> i'd like to get in contact with someone who can possibly arrange a time in their schedule to stop by somewhere for an hour and give a "class" on the process of REVU and how one can submit packages to be considered in a next release's repositories.  can anyone point me to whom I should speak to?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: what's up?
<dtchen> oh crud, my bind-mounts...
<nigelb> I've not been packaging for so long.
<nigelb> So many mistakes :(
<ajmitch> nigelb: you're hardly the only one to make mistakes
<nigelb> ajmitch: that's slightly comforting :)
<lucas> Laney: ubuntu-upload-history added to UDD
<Laney> lucas: thanks!
<Laney> when does it update?
<lucas> Laney: 49 */6 * * * $UAR upload-history ubuntu-upload-history | /org/udd.debian.org/udd/scripts/filter-output.rb
<Laney> sweet
<Laney> lucas: looks like it misses the extra fields Signed-By Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed Original-Maintainer
<lucas> Laney: could you open a bug for that ?
<lucas> for Signed-By, what does it contain?
<Laney> same format as Changed-By â it's populated if the signing key doesn't match the Changed-By address somehow
<Laney> can be useful to see who's doing sponsorship
<lucas> ok, please open a bug. I'm too busy those days to spend more time on this, so it will probably wait until debconf
<Laney> ok then
<Laney> on qa.d.o?
<lucas> yes
<Laney> coming up
<huats> morning
<dholbach> directhex, do you think it'd be worth having a mono packaging session at UDW this time around?
<directhex> dholbach, if you like. i guess some stuff has changed in the last couple of years
<dholbach> directhex, I think it'd be awesome
<dholbach> directhex, and I could imagine you still need some help on the team, no? :)
<directhex> dholbach, always
<dholbach> directhex, we still have 2 open slots for UDW, but if you find a different time on the schedule better, I'm happy to ask somebody if they can swap
<dholbach> it's in 2 weeks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Timetable
<dholbach> and if you'd like to give the session together with somebody else, that's fine as well
<directhex> dholbach, i work from home these days, the timing kinda doesn't matter to me
<dholbach> directhex, just let me know what would work best for you and I'm happy to organise the rest
<dholbach> jmarsden, hey - how are you doing?
<dholbach> could you imagine to give a session about Lubuntu and what's going on there this cycle at Ubuntu Developer Week?
<dholbach> (maybe together with gilir?)
<directhex> dholbach, just put my name in a timeslot, and email me a reminder
<dholbach> directhex, will do! thanks a lot!
<nigelb> tumbleweed: thanks for the upload :)
<tumbleweed> nigelb: np. I renamed the patch in the changelog entry, btw
<nigelb> oh? /me looks
<tumbleweed> you renamed the patch but didn't update the changelog to match
<nigelb> doh
<nigelb> tumbleweed: pathfinder seems to be false positive
<nigelb> so does pornview (doesn't fail anymore)
<tumbleweed> you sure? there's an open debian bug on it? (pathfinder)
<nigelb> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pathfinder/1.1.3-0.3
<nigelb> fails due to unavailable build-dep on sparc
<tumbleweed> that was built before the toolhain changes
<nigelb> ahh
<micahg> and there's no more sparc in Ubuntu
<nigelb> oh, cmake.
<nigelb> I wonder if I bit more than I can chew
<jtaylor> linker flags such as `--libs' belong in `test_libpaps_LDFLAGS o_O
<jtaylor> from automake
<jtaylor> the input is a pkg-config --libs ...
<nigelb> This is wrong, isn't it? set(LDAP_LINKFLAGS "-lldap")
<jtaylor> yes its wrong
<jtaylor> should be LIBRARIES
<Laney> apparently geser is the most prolific non-canonical uploader! http://people.ubuntu.com/~laney/upload_count.txt
<Laney> ;-)
<geser> wow, I'm even in top10 :)
<jtaylor> zzzZZzzzZZZz bts is so slow
<nigelb> I actually did Ctrl + F geser. Sigh.
<Laney> heh
<micahg> Laney: will that list be auto uploading
<Laney> no
<Laney> i was just messing around with the new UDD/ubuntu upload history stuff
<james_w> wow, four people beat the auto-syncer?
<nigelb> heh, that must be BIG. :)
<Laney> you can run queries against it yourself on wagner.d.o
<geser> Laney: some more haskell transitions and you will move up in the ranking too :)
<micahg> hehe
<Laney> hah
<Laney> not sure how many more of those I can take
<Laney> surely implementing binNMU in LP would be less work overall
<micahg> Laney: I'd rather have 1-click no change rebuilds in LP than binNMUs
<Laney> it's useful to be able to do it per-arch
<Laney> but you'd get both probably
<micahg> I could buy that :)
<Laney> if only because arch:all binNMU is still not realised
<jtaylor> anyone know what scons uses for LDADD or LIBS?
<jtaylor> its LIBS
<omergex> hi
<omergex> i use toshiba a300 2d4 notebook,
<omergex> ati hd 3470
<omergex> my notebook temperature very high
<omergex> hdd temp 50
<omergex> why
<omergex> on windows 40 temp
<omergex> ubuntu 50
<omergex> help please :)
<dtchen> omergex: you probably will have better luck on http://askubuntu.com
<dtchen> omergex: (or the #ubuntu channel here)
<omergex> ubuntu channel, ok
<omergex> thanks
<omergex> :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-01
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is TB 5.0 available in 11.04 ?
<kaushal> checking in again for the query ?
<kaushal> can someone please comment ?
 * micahg hugs fabrice_sp for looking at dvbcut :)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I actually have the beginning part of the patch if you want it
<arand> Has the last Sync from Debian already been? I have a package in unstable which was accepted on the 29th and does not seem to have synced yet, is there any lists/stats regarding these syncs?
<Laney> persia: could you give your vote on lynxman (and your thoughts on voting if you have any)?
<tamrat> arand: you should file a bug, automatic syncing is over
<tamrat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<arand> tamrat: Right, but I was assuming there would be a final sync on the last date..
<directhex> arand, that sync is a manual process. i haven't seen evidence of it havign been run today
<arand> I'm aware, I asked before here on the 29th and it was hinted that it would be run on the 30th, I guess not then.
<tamrat> just file it - you can even do so prior to the freeze
<arand> I will :)
<tamrat> The reason I'm here: is there a way to get the build-logs for packages in the universe archive
<Laney> yep, http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/package/version
<tamrat> Ok found it
<tamrat> Not sure if this is thre right place to ask. I'm looking at bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdal/+bug/786790
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 786790 in gdal (Ubuntu) "Xerces is not linked in GDAL-Util-Package" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tamrat> I think it can be solved by rebuilding the package - if I use pbuilder it is solved.
<tamrat> The same package is ok on maverick, only problems with natty
<jtaylor> autosync phase is over or?
<directhex> cjwatson knows. i think it's his manual daily run ;)
<arand> I noticed that the announce of the sync freeze wasn't sent to the -devel list though :)
<Laney> maybe it hasn't happened yet
<Laney> (or is in moderation for -d-a
<Laney> )
<cjwatson> ara: I've stopped autosyncing, if you have new packages you care about then please file a bug (I didn't clear the entire new-source list)
<cjwatson> erer
<cjwatson> that was meant for arand, sorry
<ara> no worries
<ara> :)
<jtaylor> keytouch will be removed from debian and it does not build in oneiric (no-add-needed) should it be removed there too?
<jtaylor> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=632110
<ubottu> Debian bug 632110 in ftp.debian.org "RM: keytouch, keytouch-data -- RoM; Broken/Obsolete, dead upstream" [Normal,Open]
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sounsd sensible. I'd say hijack the FTBFS bug and request removal
<jtaylor> write a comment that it should be removed and subscribe archive?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: edit the title and description appropriately too. Also, it technically should be sponsored
<tumbleweed> LGTM, I'll sponsor it
<AnAnt> Hello, would someone sponsor LP #801884  ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801884 in debhelper (Ubuntu) "Candidate revision debhelper 8.9.0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801884
<oier> hi
<oier> I am trying to package my first python application
<oier> and don't seem to get it right
<oier> pbuilder fails with the following error
<oier> http://paste.ubuntu.com/636473/
<oier> and you can grab the code at https://launchpad.net/indicator-bug
<oier> I would be very grateful for any help
<jtaylor> oier: py_support is deprecated please use dh_python2
<oier> could you please provide me an example or do I have to just change that line?
<jtaylor> unfortunatly I'm not familiar with cdbs python packaging but probably it is enough to remove the support line in rules http://wiki.debian.org/Python/TransitionToDHPython2
<jtaylor> and a DEB_PYTHON2_MODULE_PACKAGES=indicator-bug
<oier> so do I have to replace DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM in the rules file with DEB_PYTHON2_MODULE_PACKAGES=indicator-bug?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> and change the build dependencies
<broder> oier, jtaylor: the dh_python2 stuff is good to do, but the actual reason the build failed was that you need to list the package's python dependencies as build-dependencies as well
<oier> thanks, I'll try
<oier> hi again
<oier> now I am getting another error
<oier> here ist the relevant part of pbuilders http://paste.ubuntu.com/636494/
<oier> and here are the modified rules and control files in order to use dh_python2
<oier> http://paste.ubuntu.com/636495/
<oier> http://paste.ubuntu.com/636496/
<oier> if anyone could have a look I would appreciate it a lot
<jtaylor> youre probably still missing some build dependency
<jtaylor> as it builds fine on my machine but not in pbuilder
<c_korn> hm, maybe not the right channel here but maybe someone already knows the problem. trying to compile the new version of wxhexeditor there is this error: configure:3594: gcc -g -O2  `wx-config --libs` conftest.c  >&5
<c_korn> gcc: `wx-config: No such file or directory
<c_korn> but wx-config is installed actually
<c_korn> $ which wx-config
<c_korn> /usr/bin/wx-config
<Ampelbein> c_korn: no solution, but the error indicates that the expression isn't executed but taken literally from gcc. (see the backtick in the error message)
<c_korn> Ampelbein: hm, yeah, you are right
<c_korn> Ampelbein: this is the makefile. I think the problem must be in there because I do not find wx-config anywhere else: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=B6frVuBb
<jtaylor> c_korn: the error occures in the configure, so the makefile won't help
<c_korn> but configure is called inside this makefile (it is handmade obviously)
<jtaylor> ups its a rules
<Ampelbein> c_korn: fwiw, I can compile http://sourceforge.net/projects/wxhexeditor/files/wxHexEditor/v0.11%20Beta/ just fine
<Ampelbein> on up-to-date oneiric
<c_korn> hm, well I am on natty. but my tarball has a different MD5 sum.
<c_korn> hm, ok. was because I removed the debian directory inside the tarball
<c_korn> I need to inform upstream that this is wrong
<c_korn> Ampelbein: now this is funny. while debuild -us -uc -b | tee ../build_log fails make succeeds.
<c_korn> have a look at the screenlog: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ZzaNX3pp
<Ampelbein> this is indeed strange.
<c_korn> how can I debug this further?
<c_korn> just "make" in override_dh_auto_build does not help either
<c_korn> it needs to be some variable I think
<oier> hi again, I am still trying to package my first python app
<oier> I tryed the suggested changes
<oier> switching to dh_python2
<oier> but pbuilder still fails
<oier> I think it has to do something with the rules file
<oier> but I have no experience so I can't tell where the problem lies
<c_korn> meh, this does not work either: FFLAGS= MFLAGS= LDFLAGS= CFLAGS= CXXFLAGS= MAKEFLAGS= MAKELEVEL= /usr/bin/make
<oier> pbuilder output is in http://paste.ubuntu.com/636494/
<oier> and code in https://code.launchpad.net/~oier/indicator-bug/trunk
<Ampelbein> c_korn: what does work however is "        cd udis86;LDFLAGS= ./configure"
<oier> I would be very thankful for any help
<Ampelbein> c_korn: (in the udis86/libudis86/.libs/libudis86.a: target)
<c_korn> ah, in the makefile
<c_korn> well, it also worked in debian/rules ;)
<broder> c_korn: makefiles don't support backticks
<broder> you want $(shell wx-config)
<broder> or similar
<c_korn> Ampelbein: yeah, with LDFLAGS= it works in the makefile
<c_korn> broder: but why does simple make succeed then where debuild fails ?
<broder> c_korn: i'm assuming it's some bad interaction with CFLAGS etc. being set in the environment
<broder> i don't remember the exact details, but make's behavior expanding variables that are defined both in the makefile and the environment always confuses me
<c_korn> but I tried "FFLAGS= MFLAGS= LDFLAGS= CFLAGS= CXXFLAGS= MAKEFLAGS= MAKELEVEL= /usr/bin/make" from inside debian/rules and it still fails
<broder> right. you're still setting environment variables that correspond to variables in the makefile
<broder> (if you want to set them, you need env -u or something)
<broder> (err, unset)
<c_korn> heh, indeed. this also works:
<c_korn> override_dh_auto_build:
<c_korn> 	env --unset=LDFLAGS $(MAKE)
<c_korn> for now I stay with it that messing with env variables in makefiles is evil ;)
<c_korn> thank you very much for your help, ampelbein and broder
<Ampelbein> broder: are you sure about backticks not supported with make? http://paste.ubuntu.com/636564/ suggests otherwise.
<jtaylor> oier: does the build work outside of pbuilder?
<oier> I am not sure what you mean,  distutils works
<jtaylor> its likely some problem dependency problem or the setup.py doing something it shouldn't do
<jtaylor> missing dependency problem
<oier> dependency inside setup.py? or in the debian directory?
<jtaylor> build dependency
<oier> but if there would me a missing dependency it would point it out in pbuilder as "no python module found", or?
<jtaylor> it should, the error of that setup.py does not really help finding the cause
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-02
<AnAnt> Hello, if I run "objcopy --only-keep-debug" on a dynamically built binary, does this cause the resulting binary to be statically linked (uses shared libs) ?
<AnAnt> nevermind, found out the answer (it's no)
<benonsoftware> Hi all.
<benonsoftware> Question: Do I need to know a programming launge to become a MOTU?
<Laney> Depends what you do
<Laney> at the very least you'll need to know make
<benonsoftware> Laney: What do you mean. "What you do"?
<Laney> MOTU work encompasses many tasks
<Laney> not all of them involve 'programming languages'
<benonsoftware> What do you mean many taks?
<Laney> ...
<Laney> here's a link for you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<Jadoo1989> I have been considering getting involved with MOTU, but IÂ´á¸¿ going to wait for developer week.
<benonsoftware> Laney: I've read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted but what are the other task MOTUs have to do un-programming related?
<benonsoftware> I've read about MOTU Mentor wiki but what exaclty does it do?
<tumbleweed> benonsoftware: generally, one needs some shell scripting for MOTU tasks. Knowing a few common programming languagues is helpful, but knowing the common build systems is far more helpful
<benonsoftware> tumbleweed: I am good at shell scripting and am just started learning Python.
<tumbleweed> the mentoring programme is a bit dead, but yes there's developer week, and generally there are people around here who will help with problems
<benonsoftware> tumbleweed: What do you mean the mentor programme is dead? :(
<benonsoftware> I was just writing my email for it now.
<tumbleweed> benonsoftware: I don't see any mail on the list between january and june. But at least there were helpful replies to people in june: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu-mentors/
<benonsoftware> tumbleweed: I sent my appilcation to motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net like it says on the page. Do I send it to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu-mentors/ to?
<tumbleweed> benonsoftware: As far as I knew, the programme was pretty dead, so I don't think any applications are necessary at all
<benonsoftware> tumbleweed: Oh, I've just sent mine. Where do I get a mentor/help now?
<Jadoo1989> Have you had a look at the guide? The youtube videos are pretty good as well.
<benonsoftware> This guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete ? Doesn't make sense.
<tumbleweed> benonsoftware: you can get help here and possibly on the ubuntu-motu-mentors list
<benonsoftware> Ok
<benonsoftware> So I've read the getting Started page. Where do I go from there?
<tumbleweed> yes, that guide
<benonsoftware> So do I read that next?
<benonsoftware> What should I do after I have read the guide tumbleweed ?
<benonsoftware> tumbleweed: What happens when we have finsihed reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ?
<mgarrido> Hi all, I have a newbie question
<mgarrido> I've made a branch with bzr branch lp:ubuntu/<packagename>. Can it be compiled using pbuilder?
<jtaylor> mgarrido: use the --builder flag of bzr-buildpackage
<jtaylor> or create a dsc in your prefered way and use that directly
<mgarrido> thanks jtaylor, I'll try it
<jtaylor> is there a good way to call autoreconf from cdbs?
<jmarsden> jtaylor: I'm not sure... scrap cdbs, use dh --with autoreconf $@ instead ? :)
<jtaylor> thats probably best
<jtaylor> btw its dh $@ --with autoreconf
<jmarsden> jtaylor: OK, I think I have seen it both ways around...
<jtaylor> its a common mistake
<jtaylor> will be an error in compat 8
<jmarsden> jtaylor: Sounds like something lintian should flag, in that case.
<jtaylor> monkey-bubble ftbs fixed, branch needs sponsoring
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I'll look at it, thanks
<jtaylor> its a pretty large change, dh-7 and quilt to be able to patch 2 lines in a makefile ^^
<tumbleweed> yeah, I was going to complain about that. Then I noticed it was ubuntu-only :)
<tumbleweed> urgh@the patches
<tumbleweed> upstream seems pretty dead too
<tumbleweed> anyway, LGTM
<jtaylor> packages available in oneiric but not in natty can be backported right?
<ari-tczew> jtaylor: yes
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-03
<benonsoftware> Hi all.
<ari-tczew> hi benonsoftware
<benonsoftware> Hi
<benonsoftware> Question: What happens when we have finsihed reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing ?
<benonsoftware>  
<ari-tczew> benonsoftware: start contribution? ;-)
<benonsoftware> Have any ideas on what?
<micahg> benonsoftware: does anything appeal to you out of the lists of contributions?
<benonsoftware> Another Question: What does Preparing New Packages mean?
<micahg> benonsoftware: creating Debian packaging for some piece of software from sctract
<micahg> *scratch
<benonsoftware> How would I do that?
<micahg> benonsoftware: the packaging guide describes how to do that, but I'd suggest starting with something easier
<benonsoftware> Do you have a idea?
<micahg> benonsoftware: well, what's your background?
<benonsoftware> python
<micahg> benonsoftware: you could fix open bugs in python packages
<benonsoftware> Ok.
<benonsoftware> Know any good packages to start of with micahg ?
<micahg> benonsoftware: well, I always suggest stuff that you're running
<benonsoftware> What packages do you like that are in Python?
<micahg> idk, I'm still learning python
<benonsoftware> Where are you learning it from micahg ?
<micahg> nowhere in particular, was told to use the python documentation as a guide
<benonsoftware> OK
<Jadoo1989> Python books are notoriously crappy.
<benonsoftware> I've heard
<benonsoftware> Even C++/C books are great as door stops
<Jadoo1989> I like some C books. C Primer Plus was a great book
<benonsoftware> I had Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days.
<benonsoftware> 21 hours later...
<benonsoftware> Using it as a door stop.
<Jadoo1989> Haha
<Jadoo1989> theres  a C++ version, called C++ Primer Plus, I believe
<Jadoo1989> not sure if it is of the same quality as the C book.
<benonsoftware> I hate the in 21 days books.
<Jadoo1989> I never used them. Sounds too much like a gimmick
<micahg> benonsoftware: you could look at the build failures here and see if you can fix any of the ones in the python packages: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/oneiric.html
<benonsoftware> Do any of you know what GCC is built with?
<benonsoftware> Proberly C> :)
<micahg> gcc is built with gcc :)
<benonsoftware> What?
<benonsoftware> So what is it built with?
<micahg> gcc
<Jadoo1989> gcc is written in C.
<micahg> and c++ these days
<Jadoo1989> eah
<Jadoo1989> for some front ends
<Jadoo1989> i believe
<benonsoftware> What's Eah?
<Jadoo1989> my y key is dodgy
<Jadoo1989> so it should say yeah
<benonsoftware> What version of Python should I use for MOTU
<benonsoftware> So what version should I use then?
<benonsoftware> HI all.
<bones_> does anyone here do notify-osd programming?
<benonsoftware> What?
<tumbleweed> bones_: #ubuntu-desktop or #ayatana people are probably more likely to be familiar with it.
<Jadoo1989> oops
<Jadoo1989> accidentally left
<Jadoo1989> :P
<benonsoftware> Just like me ;p
<EvilPhoenix> is there a specific MOTU I should talk to regarding arranging a class session on Ubuntu Packaging?  Specifically, I'd like to arrange for an MOTU to run a session somewhere about the REVU process for getting apps into a release's repos
<tumbleweed> EvilPhoenix: we recommend new packages go via Debian where possible. Debian's stronger maintainership may help packages from being neglected, and generally it brings the package to a wider audience
<micahg> wow, gnash has 454 build-deps...
<Laney> lucas: i'd like to link to the UDD schema - could you trigger a manual update so that the new tables show up?
<Laney> btw you probably want to flip only-recent again
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-25
<inashdeen> hi, I would like to enquire, how do i send my program for consideration by motu to put in ubuntu software cneter?
<RAOF> inashdeen: It depends on what you're after; what is your program, and what is your desired outcome?
<inashdeen> RAQF : can i explain it here? ok, it is a keyboard layout for traditional malay (jawi). it is based on the arabic writing. this is the link to the project. https://launchpad.net/jawi/jawi-keyboard-0.5.7-precise currently, i just built a .deb. i tried to make a ppa, but it requires source. my program doesnt have a source
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<vibhav> The number of items in the sponsor queue is increasing again >_<
 * vibhav adds some more items
<micahg> vibhav: that's what happens over the weekend, it should go down again as people do their piloting shifts (unless we're getting a swarm of contributions, which isn't really a bad thing), high number in queue isn't as bad as old requests not being addressed
<vibhav> exactly
<micahg> in fact, I'd posit that a large queue is good as long as they're all recent submissions :)
<vibhav> Its good that there not old requests
<iulian> Morning dholbach, evening ajmitch.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<ajmitch> hi iulian
<LoT> not sure if you get bug notifications, but... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-django-openid-auth/+bug/1017462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017462 in python-django-openid-auth (Ubuntu) "Please remove python-django-openid-auth from the repos" [Undecided,New]
 * LoT was watching the announcements list, noticed that the package "maintainer" for this was MOTU
<tumbleweed> oh, good, was waiting for that
<LoT> wasnt sure how to mark it, so i just came here to say "Here, its yours, deal with it"  </delegation>
<LoT> (in terms of status / importance)
<tumbleweed> it's a special, workflow bug
 * LoT returns to multitasking, watching the bugs announcements list and working on a report for work.
<arand> How would I go about flagging bug #540035 for "please-SRU-with-Debian-stable-sync"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540035 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "pango-graphite causes several applications to crash" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/540035
<tumbleweed> we don't actually sync into stable (that I've ever seen)
<tumbleweed> you'd just prepare an SRU as usual
<badfox> dholbach,  ping : After uploading a PPA into my launchpad from terminal , how much time is going to taken  for applying changes in PPA  ?
<dholbach> badfox, if you have a look at your ppa page, it should give you an estimate
<dholbach> badfox, do you have a link to your ppa?
<badfox> yes dholbach
<dholbach> can you share it? :-P
<badfox> dholbach,  https://launchpad.net/~genupulas/+archive/accountsservice-0.6.21 and i have uploaded successfully
<badfox> dholbach,  i have seen the message too states that uploaded successfully
<dholbach> badfox, did you get an 'accepted' email after uploading?
<dholbach> I'm asking because I can't see anything on the ppa page
<dholbach> maybe you could ask the fine people in #launchpad?
<arand> tumbleweed: Ah, ok, I figured it would be nicer in the case it was possible.
<badfox> dholbach,  yeah thats what i am also saying . i have uploaded successfully . i am sure . i have seen the message too in my terminal ,
<dholbach> no, not in the terminal
<dholbach> an email
<badfox> ok i will ask there dholbach
<tumbleweed> you should get a ne-mail within 5 mins
<dholbach> ok good
<badfox> dholbach,  i think i didnt
<tumbleweed> if you don't you didn't sign it correctly
<dholbach> or you don't have your associated key in LP
<LordOfTime> that may be the case
<dholbach> ok, you have gpg keys in LP
<badfox> dholbach,  No , just now i have got a mail
<badfox> saying as rejected :(
<badfox> lemme try one more time
<LordOfTime> badfox: hwat did it say
<dholbach> does the mail give a reason?
<LordOfTime> it should say why it was rejected
<badfox> dholbach,  yes it does "Rejected:
<badfox> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<badfox> Further error processing not possible because of a critical previous error.
<badfox> "
<LordOfTime> use quantal, precise, natty, oneiric, etc.
<LordOfTime> not "unstable"
<LordOfTime> (the PPAs cant yet build Debian Unstable packages)
<badfox> yeah
<badfox> thank you dholbach  LordOfTime
<dholbach> anytime
<badfox> :)
<LordOfTime> mhm
<arand> Does a SRU need a changelog entry, or would it be reasonable to use only the Debian changelog for a SRU that is a straight sync from Debian?
<tumbleweed> every upload needs a changelog entry
<tumbleweed> for this case, you can just copy Debian's changelog entry (crediting it) but change the version and release to appropriate values
<tumbleweed> it also has to close the SRU bug, naturally
<arand> tumbleweed: So I'd replace the Debian one or add an extra after it?
<tumbleweed> replace it
<arand> Hmm, 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 is appropriate? (0.9.3-0.1 is the based-off package in Debian, 0.9.2-3.1 current in Ubuntu).
<tumbleweed> so you're SRUing anew upstream release?
<tumbleweed> yes, that seems an appropriate version
<arand> tumbleweed: Yes, but should *hopefully* qualify as microrelease.
<Zhenech> arand, uhm, 0.9.3-0.1 >> 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 afaict
<Zhenech>  % dpkg --compare-versions 0.9.3-0.1 le 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 says so
<arand> Zhenech: Hmm, I'm wondering if that would be a prolem though...
<tumbleweed> arand: what package?
<arand> Though using 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu0.1 might be prudent, still.
<arand> pango-graphite
<Zhenech> arand, not "ubuntu1" then?
<badfox> dholbach,  you here ?  Success , i have uploaded :D
<dholbach> excellent
<arand> 0.1 is a SRU-indicator afaik.
<Zhenech> ah ok
<tumbleweed> arand: there is a 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu1 in natty
<badfox> dholbach,  one more thing i wanna do , lemme see
<badfox> dholbach,  :)
<tumbleweed> so 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 should be fine
<Rhonda> If it is based on 0.9.3-0.1 it should be 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu0.1
<Rhonda> 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 is smaller as 0.9.3-0.1, as Zhenech pointed out. :)
<tumbleweed> which is what we want
<Rhonda> But it's a wrong "upstream" version part.
<Rhonda> 0.9.3-0.1~ubuntu0.1 it should be then?
<tumbleweed> it's an SRU, getting the Debian revision rnight is less important than beingh smaller than the next Ubuntu release
<Rhonda> So changing the "upstream" version is correct?
<Rhonda> The next ubuntu release has 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu1 I thought?
<arand> But 0.9.3-0ubuntu0.1 vs 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu0.1 doesn't matter in Ubuntu, right?
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: yes
<Rhonda> So being precise doesn't matter in Ubuntu? :)
<Zhenech> Rhonda, not since quantal :>
<tumbleweed> meh, I can't say I care too much abou tupstream versions in SRUs
<tumbleweed> it's a fork in the revision history that'll go away at some point
<Rhonda> So if the next ubuntu release has 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu1 why is 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu0.1 being considered an issue?
<tumbleweed> 0.9.3-0.1ubuntu0.1 would be fine
<arand> I'll go with that
<Rhonda> There is a guideline for the versioning, and I don't understand the reason for why it is wanted to ignore that.
<tumbleweed> the guidelines for versioning in SRUs don't cover new upstream versions
<Rhonda> It covers how it ensures proper upgrading possibilities, and that is the 0.1 at the end?
<arand> Well, I'm kind of basing it off the Debian version but still not, at the same time (since removing the Debian changelog entry for 0.9.3-0.1, which seems a bit odd)
<Rhonda> And/or the addition of the release name, which sorts nicely?
<tumbleweed> arand: I'd keep the changolg entry if you are using that version
<Rhonda> Removing changelog entry?  So removing the changes?
<arand> Right, heh.
<tumbleweed> Rhonda: I tend to just consider SRUs as a targetted patch to a stable ubuntu release. Even if the patch makes it equivalent to a known debian version. I'll append an SRU .1 to the version / bump an existing one. I'll only touch the upstream version if I'm uploading a .orig too, which is fairly rare for SRUs
<Laney> I think I've had enough of apt-cacher-ng
<Laney> what's a good alternative?
<tumbleweed> squid? (with totally different semantics)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> i'm more tempted to buy some extra storage and run mirrors
<tumbleweed> yes, I have a home mirror. it rocks
<jpds> Laney: squid-deb-proxy(-client).
<tumbleweed> but it will be a little more stale
<Laney> jpds: how painful is it to configure?
<jpds> Laney: http://www.jorgecastro.org/2010/02/04/introducing-squid-deb-proxy/
<Laney> ta
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-26
<broder> micahg: hey, what's the deal with chromium 18.0.1025.168~r134367-0ubuntu0.12.04.1?
<broder> there's a comment on bug #992352 about new crashers, but the only crashers in that version i see are 924536 and 981253, which predate that version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992352 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu Quantal) "Please update to 18.0.1025.168" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/992352
<broder> (a friend was confused because he picked up the sru on oneiric and then upgraded)
<micahg> broder: if someone's been using it and says that it works, I'll promote it, I got crashes when I tested
<broder> err, i don't think he's testing it
<broder> just noticing that he didn't get upgraded to it
<micahg> yeah, chromium's a bit stalled at the moment
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<ajmitch> hi
 * vibhav_ bear hugs dholbach 
 * dholbach hugs vibhav back :)
<dholbach> Michael Hall is giving a session at Ubuntu App Developer Week at 16:00 UTC (#ubuntu-classroom) to cover some (non-Quickly) packaging tools - would anyone be available to be around and help out with some questions which might come in?
<dholbach> ^ anyone? It's just about helping out if necessary, not giving a session on your own. :)
 * highvoltage hessitantly raises hand
 * tumbleweed would, but I won't be at a desk
 * highvoltage is sure no one would object if you do it from bed
<tumbleweed> naah, clug dinner, so a car :)
<tumbleweed> but I'll be around a bit
 * highvoltage will be there in spirit
<dholbach> ^ mhall119, it seems like tumbleweed and highvoltage could be around for a bit
<mhall119> awesome, thanks you guys
<highvoltage> mhall119: what should I do? just show up?
<mhall119> it'll be on video, are you guys okay with that?
<highvoltage> google+?
<highvoltage> mhall119: that's noon eastern time right?
<mhall119> yeah, G+
<mhall119> highvoltage: right
<highvoltage> k, I guess I'll steal a webcam from a conference room :)
<mhall119> I'm going to cover things like pkgme, debuild, bzr builddeb, etc
<dholbach> awesome :)
 * dholbach hugs mhall119 and highvoltage
<highvoltage> I'm (sadly) not as familiar with pkgme from a usage perspective, so it's probably a good idea that I attend just for that anyway :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: yeah, I just need a packaging guru
<mhall119> since I'm still pretty new at it
<arand> What's this here, and will it be public? :)
 * highvoltage is still a newbie, really (but usually knows where to get most answers to common questions)
<tumbleweed> aah, video isn't really convenient for coming and going
<mhall119> highvoltage: tumbleweed: are you guys ready?
 * highvoltage is setting up
<highvoltage> how do I find the hangout?
<tumbleweed> mhall119: I don't have a headset here and probably have to run off in 20 mins
<mhall119> I'll give you the link
<mhall119> tumbleweed: don't worry about it, if highvoltage is helping me we'll be fine
<tumbleweed> cool
<highvoltage> mhall119: where are you pasting the links? I see you pasting but can't see the links anywhere
<mhall119> in -chat
<dupondje> bleh, eclipse is FTBFS
<vibhav> dupondje: :(
<raju> bobweaver,  hi
<bobweaver> hey RainCT
<bobweaver> woops raju *
<raju> bobweaver,  suppose we have taken a pkg with merge script and done merge successfully .
<raju> bobweaver,  so now that pkg is with Ubuntu .
<raju> what i am asking is , if i upload that pkg to my ppa (just for fun) is there any problem i am going to face ?
<raju> bobweaver,  question finished :D
<bobweaver> Not sure depends on license and all sorts of stuff.
<bobweaver> this package is coming from debian ?
<raju> yeah
<bobweaver> get it going and make sure that it is great and good, then test test and test again then merge you ppa or branch I am not too good with that as I am kinda new to this also.
<raju>  bobweaver  this sounds good .
<bobweaver> I have only merged one package fix :(
<raju> bobweaver,  me too :D
<bobweaver> There are other here that are way more "skills" then I
<bobweaver> but I hear that practice makes things better :)
<raju> to be frank Ubuntu have very cool people , always ready to help they are
<raju> of course it is true bobweaver
<bobweaver> +1 to the cool people :)
<raju> bobweaver,  you also very helpful
<raju> so +1 to bobweaver
<raju> bobweaver,  i am sleepy , tired . good night . have a great day a head .
<bobweaver> thanks I def know what it is like to be frustrated and just wanting to know how things work. the debian manual thou cryptic at times is also good after the 30th time reading it
<bobweaver> have a good one raju
<matttbe__> Hello. I'm looking for a MOTU just to relaunch the build of Cairo-Dock Plug-Ins packages for ARM: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cairo-dock-plug-ins/3.0.2-0ubuntu1/+build/3600782
<matttbe__> (there were a problem to install some mono (optional) dependences but I guess it's now ok :) )
<micahg> matttbe__: mono isn't built on armel yet
<matttbe__> micahg, ok thank you! I guess it'll be fixed in a few days (I don't have to remove mono dependences for armel)
<micahg> matttbe__: well, someone is working on it
<matttbe__> micahg, thank you!
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-27
<highvoltage> broder: I'm creating that facebook ad now... let's see what happens :)
<highvoltage> (it's $1.06 per click, so at $25 that doesn't buy much, but it's $0.16 per thousand impressions, which is)
<broder> highvoltage: cool. i'm happy to pitch in if you can figure out a way for me to get money to you
<dholbach> good morning
<badfox> ../grab-merge.sh acpi-support not giving me its pkgs
<badfox> i checked the script , its working
<badfox> i have seen pkg link in debian too
<badfox> http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/acpi-support.html
<badfox> everything is fine
<badfox> but still i am not getting why i am unable to do this
<badfox> somebody could help me please
<badfox> somebody please
<badfox> hmm
<LordOfTime> am i right that if you enable the backports repository in your system, it doesnt have any apt pinning to lower priority?  I'm pretty certain there are no apt pinning rules on any repositories, even if they're all active (unless you manually set otherwise)
<LordOfTime> broder: ^
<Laney> you are not right
<Laney> since 11.04, backports default to not installing automatically
<LordOfTime> i think otherwise, then...
<LordOfTime> because that's not been the case when i've enabled the backports repo
<LordOfTime> (on 11.04 and 12.04)
 * LordOfTime will reconfirm later, but perhaps his system is broken
<LordOfTime> yep, confirmed as a bug local to my system
<Laney> it has in fact been "enabled" by default since 11.10
 * LordOfTime is annoyed
<LordOfTime> hmm
<LordOfTime> then why am i getting updates pulled from -backports...
<LordOfTime> i wonder...
<LordOfTime> *checks apt preferences*
<Laney> maybe because you previously installed that package from backports
<LordOfTime> Laney: my precise system is a clean install
<LordOfTime> the fact its pulling backport updates still is... problematic...
<Laney> exactly what are you seeing?
<LordOfTime> first off, no pinning file
<LordOfTime> secondly, a ton of "Installed" items with origin in backports
<LordOfTime> s/ton/few/
<LordOfTime> the python-leveldb is one of them (this is a dev system, and one of the projects needs that program)
<Laney> that package only exists in backports.
<LordOfTime> wth
 * LordOfTime has it listed in main
 * LordOfTime grabs the installation media to reinstall
<Laney> so there is nowhere else you could have got it from
<LordOfTime> i think my packaging system is botched
<LordOfTime> s/system/lists/
<LordOfTime> s/packaging/package/
<LordOfTime> first time this has happened
 * LordOfTime wiped the apt cache, and did an apt-get update, and now its showing right
<LordOfTime> *shrugs*
<Laney> you should show some example incorrect behaviour next time
<LordOfTime> well this thing has Synaptic *shrugs*
<LordOfTime> i think its just being stupid
<LordOfTime> (this thing has been stupid before)
<Laney> bugs should still be reported properly
<badfox>  ../grab-merge.sh acpi-support not giving me its pkgs, i checked the script , its working .i have seen pkg link in debian too http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/acpi-support.html . everything is fine  , but still i am not getting why i am unable to do this , somebody  help me please
<black_joe> When I went to submit my app, they wanted it on a PPA. Long story short, I am trying to make my first source archive for the ppa and it's not going well.  http://pastebin.com/JyriN0yx
<black_joe> Does anyone know what it wants me to add to rules?
<black_joe> I don't need it to build anything as I already have a separate make and install file.
<black_joe> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34155613/debian.tar.gz is the full archive
<AmberJ> Hello
<AmberJ> I uploaded source package to Launchpad but it is getting rejected: http://pastebin.com/Mpg91nth
<AmberJ> I think this has to do with me uploading this source package yesterday in this PPA but I deleted it from my PPA's web UI
<jtaylor> deleting does not allow you to upload it again with the same version
<AmberJ> Err ok, what if the first upload failed to build? How can I use the same version again?
<jtaylor> you can't
<AmberJ> Or maybe, I don't understand versioning completely (?)
<AmberJ> Ah ok. I should read more about versioning conventions.
<jtaylor> if you change the debian part just increase the revision
<jtaylor> if you change upstream you have to increase the upstream version
<AmberJ> ok. Thanks jtaylor :)
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-28
<jbicha> wow, eclipse on armel took 3 tries to build, the first timed out and the second crashed
<gale-michael> I dislike eclipse, so slow ...
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I have a problem on building juju with pbuolder or debuilder
<alo21> could someone help me, please?
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> alo21: a pastebin of a log snippet would help
<alo21> micahg: here is the log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1063822/
<micahg> hrm, I can't be of much help here, maybe someone else can
<alo21> micahg: thank you anyway
<alo21> micahg: could success of a building depends by computer?
<micahg> alo21: maybe, some of those failures might be heisenbugs
<arand> For an SRU (universe), should I be subscribing ubuntu-sponsors at the same time, or after ubuntu-sru? Also, is a debdiff required or is an bzr branch ok, and should it be merge-suggested or just linked to the bug report?
<arand> c.f. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango-graphite/+bug/540035
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540035 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "pango-graphite causes several applications to crash" [High,Fix released]
<bullgard6> Why does  Debian  provide the DEB program package  xulrunner and Ubuntu does not? http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=xulrunner&searchon=names&suite=stable&section=all
<LordOfTime> !info xulrunner precise
<ubottu> Package xulrunner does not exist in precise
<LordOfTime> hm good question
<Zhenech> probably because ubuntu does not split out xulruner from firefox/thunderbird
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-June/000719.html
<dholbach> ... Firefox 3.0 (and xulrunner 1.9) are now unsupported by Mozilla. ...
<bullgard6> According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XULRunner is the stable release currently 13.0  dated June 1, 2012  (26 days ago).
<Zhenech> bullgard6, so what is your point?
<bullgard6> Zhenech: I'd like to know if I can access this package through Ubuntu repositories now or in a near furure.
<LordOfTime> as an FYI, don't trust Wikipedia for everything
<LordOfTime> s/everything/anything/
<Zhenech> bullgard6, what do you need plain xulruner for?
<bullgard6> Zhenech: For running Chatzilla with less overhead.
<Rhonda> Huhm.  Strange that I have to renew my MOTU membership always around debconf. :)
 * Rhonda peeks at cody-somerville 
<Laney> AFFIRM YOUR LOYALTY
<LordOfTime> what Laney said
<Zhenech> bullgard6, hummâ¦ the seamonkey-chatzilla package depends on seamonkey-browser, which might work as "xulrunner" :)
<LordOfTime> Zhenech: that installs the mozilla program "Seamonkey"
<LordOfTime> just as an FYI
<Zhenech> LordOfTime, which is the browser, which should be able to run arbitary xul stuff if poked long enough :)
<LordOfTime> indeed
<Zhenech> no idea how big the poking has to be though
<bullgard6> dholbach, Zhenech, LordOfTime: thank you for commenting.
<dholbach> are we having a MOTU meeting later on? can anyone chair? I might be a bit late because I'm on a call right now
<coolbhavi> dholbach, yes the motu page says so!  at 16.00 UTC
<coolbhavi> dholbach, ping
<dholbach> coolbhavi, pong
<dholbach> ok, so nobody started the meeting :)
<vibhav> dholbach: Which meeting?
<AmberJ> How do we specify a Launchpad PPA as build dependency when using Launchpad's "daily builds"?
<TheLordOfTime> AmberJ:  specify the dependency within the PPA you're building to?
<TheLordOfTime> s/to/in/
<dholbach> vibhav, MOTU meeting
<vibhav> dholbach: ah
<vibhav> dholbach: You still busy?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> got another meeting coming up in 10 and trying to finish something else beforehand
<AmberJ_> Did anyone answered my question? If yes, can someone copy/paste it? Thanks.
<vibhav> How many hands do you have?
<dholbach> vibhav, do you need help with anything?
<AlanBell> AmberJ_: not sure you can do that
<TheLordOfTime> i only think you can do that if you specify the other PPA's dependency within the PPA you're using a daily build recipe in
<TheLordOfTime> (i.e. a daily builds ppa or something)
<vibhav> dholbach: Ah fine, caryy on
<AmberJ_> TheLordOfTime: Right, I should try adding PPA dependency to daily builds PPA
<TheLordOfTime> AmberJ_:  yep, try that and see if that helps
<TheLordOfTime> since i run into this all the time with my backports ppas
 * TheLordOfTime keeps backport builddeps in a separate PPA
<TheLordOfTime> s/backport/backported/
 * micahg is sorry he missed the meeting
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: amberJ: the alternative is to set your PPA to build against backports and request backports for what you need (assuming it can be backported)
<TheLordOfTime> micahg:  i try to run my PPAs as close to the main builders as I can (on main builders for the standard repos, ERR: Backports cannot build-dep on other backports)
<TheLordOfTime> but you're right
<TheLordOfTime> setting the PPA to build against backports would fix the issue of having to have the build-deps in another PPA
<TheLordOfTime> (unless those build-deps were rejected for normal backporting)
<AmberJ_> I have added PPA dependency to daily build and requested to build again. Let's see if this works..
<AmberJ_> In the meantime, I'll start with backports development process..
<AmberJ_> The build completed successfully. But it did a source only build (it seems so). How can I do 'binary' "daily builds"?
<micahg> hrm?  the recipe is a source build and should produce binaries
<AmberJ_> micahg: You are right. Binary builds are pending but it shbows success for something... Does it shows success for source build (or what)? http://i.imgur.com/nw44T.png
<AmberJ_> *shows
<micahg> AmberJ_: I think the recipe just shows that it successfully uploaded a source build
<AmberJ_> Ok, thanks micahg! :)
<bkerensa> micahg: your making the headlines on reddit :)
<micahg> hrm?
<bkerensa> micahg: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/vp4r3/chromium_ppas_unmaintained/
<bkerensa> ;)
<micahg> :(
<bkerensa> heh
<micahg> well, anyone who's interested in helping to maintain chromium can let me know :)
<bkerensa> should do a call for help :)
<bkerensa> maybe ill blog about it and ask if anyone wants to contribute
<arand> For an SRU (universe), should I be subscribing ubuntu-sponsors at the same time, or after ubuntu-sru? Also, is a debdiff required or is an bzr branch ok, and should it be merge-suggested or just linked to the bug report?
<micahg> arand: ubuntu-sru doesn't need to be subscribed until it's uploaded unless you think it's so risky that you want pre-approval
<micahg> merges to lp:ubuntu/foo show up in the sponsorship queue automatically
<micahg> whether you use a debdiff or not is your preference
<arand> Ah, -sru approves the -pending -> -updates, hmm, was a long time since I did this...
<arand> Ah, right, so if I merge-propose to lp:ubuntu/lucid/pango-graphite I don't need to subscribe sponsors to the bug?
<micahg> right, but just keep in mind that the bzr branch can't actually be merged if there hasn't been an SRU before, so if that's why you're doing it, don't, if you prefer the workflow, that's fine
<arand> micahg: Hmm, odd that that doesn't work... This is a new upstream (micro)release, and the orig.tar.gz uses a tarball-in-tarball format, so should I be linking a .dsc (e.g. from a PPA) here?
<micahg> arand: which package is this?
<micahg> oh, right, you said pango-graphite
<arand> Riddell: Nowadays you'll need a bug supervisor https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/140509
<micahg> so, for a microrelease, you need a microrelease exception
<arand> Erhm...
<arand> c.f. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango-graphite/+bug/540035
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 540035 in pango-graphite (Ubuntu) "pango-graphite causes several applications to crash" [High,Fix released]
<micahg> arand: you should cherry pick the fix vs a new upstream release for an SRU
<arand> micahg: I read the wiki page as that only being neccessary in case of larger ones or if it was expected to do several microreleases.
<micahg> arand: well, I don't the SRU team will accept a micro release at this point without an exception or pre-exception trial approval
<Laney> yeah, if all of the changes in the new release are SRUable then you can upload that
<Laney> MREs are about getting a pass on some parts of the normal process
<arand> Well, sound like I should mail the techincal board to discuss it, anyways :)
<Laney> look at the diff and decide
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#New_upstream_microreleases
<arand> There's a 15 line diff, plus minor documentation and autotools regen.
<arand> Hmm, the reason I'm claiming the changes to be SRUable are that 1.) This new version is in Debian stable, 2.) It fixes a very critical bug (making login not work, plus several other applications crash), 3.) It's very hard to see how anything done to the package could make it worse than it is currently 4.) It looks like a reasonably small change.
<arand> The problem is that 1.) I do not understand the fixes, 2.) I don't know if 3 of those 15 lines would suffice to fix the bug...
<arand> But I think that the package should be either SRUd or ripped from lucid, on account of the seriousness of the bug.
<arand> Should I bring this up on a mailing list (ubuntu-devel?) or simply carry on with the SRU? Or something else?
<micahg> arand: I'd suggest asking for a pre-ACK, having a filtered diff for review might be helpful as well
<arand> Yeah, full and filtered are already attached to the bug report.
<arand> Ok, so the pre-ack is requested from technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<micahg> arand: if you just take the filtered diff and add a changelog entry, that should be fine as an SRU
<micahg> err, well, that filtered diff as a patch
<micahg> assuming it builds that is
<arand> Ok, I figured since the SRU page said "Note that some noise introduced by autoreconf is okay"
<Laney> you could do it either way imho
<arand> And that since the version is in Debian, it would decrease the diff to (both) upstream, and hence be nicer.
<micahg> that only applies in the devel release
<ajmitch> micahg: what, you're looking for suckers for chromium? ;)
<micahg> ajmitch: yeah :)
<ajmitch> just looking at your old answer on askubuntu, how much space were the builds taking up?
<micahg> ajmitch: the space isn't the problem anymore, it's getting it to build
<ajmitch> it chokes a bit on quantal?
<micahg> no, I can't build a source package ATM, (well, and the choke on quantal)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<micahg> if someone really wants to dig in, I think it just needs a translations update
 * ajmitch could add it to his ever-growing todo list :)
<ajmitch> though I think it should be added near the bottom of my list
<micahg> one needs about ~5GB of disk space as it requires checkouts of some hefty branches
<ajmitch> that's not too bad
<ajmitch> what are you using to generate a new source package at the moment?
<micahg> the get-orig-source rule
 * ajmitch should probably upgrade a system to quantal
<micahg> ajmitch: not needed, chroots work beautifully
<ajmitch> yeah but I should upgrade for the breakage anyway
<ajmitch> my desktop at home doesn't get used much except for gnome-terminal, firefox & chromium
 * Laney wonders if kvm broke in Q
<Laney> sid VM is suddently dead
<ajmitch> that's :(
<AmberJ_> If I run 'pbuilder create' and then run it again, does it updates existing pbuilder chroot?
<AmberJ_> I know there's 'pbuilder update' for this but then what does RE-running 'pbuilder create' do?
<jtaylor> use update to update it
<jtaylor> either fail or replace the old one
<TheLordOfTime> from what i've seen it nukes the old one and recreates it
 * TheLordOfTime did that by accident once
<AmberJ_> Ah right, 'pbuilder update' is wht way to go... Thanks!
<ScottK> ajmitch: How many months would it take you to do the checkout though?  Assuming it's not from a NZ server, that is.
<ajmitch> ScottK: probably about 6 months
<ScottK> Probably doesn't fix micahg's timeline very well.
<ajmitch> ScottK: checked out about 1GB so far
<ajmitch> usually my problem is data caps rather than speed :)
<ScottK> OK.
<ajmitch> except when fetching from LP, that's just painful
<ScottK> Is .nz upstream of .au in the big data pipes to the rest of the world?
<ScottK> Maybe you got all StevenK's bandwidth.
<ajmitch> NZ is closer to the US on the main cable we use
<ajmitch> I'd better watch out, he'll probably fly over & hurt me
<ajmitch> though he's probably not awake yet to notice
<micahg> bkerensa: thanks for the blog post, one of these days I need to get my own blog
<iulian> Blogs are boring. :)
<TheLordOfTime> arguing is worse
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: arguing is fun.  You just have to do it carefully around here or someone whacks you with the CoC.
<ajmitch> yes, you have to respectfully tell people that they suck
<ajmitch> micahg: so I'd try & build it all if I could only connect to svn.webkit.org from home, seems to be some routing breakage causing me pain :)
<micahg> ajmitch: hrm?  you shouldn't need that
<ajmitch> get-orig-source seems to be trying to check out specific revisions of things from there
<micahg> orly?  hrm, weird
<ajmitch> yarly
<micahg> hrm, that must be upstream chromium doing something funny
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me
<ajmitch> this is from branching lp:chromium-browser, I presume that's the best place to start?
<micahg> that should work (although it might be a bit behind)
<micahg> ScottK: Laney: I forget, backports doesn't respect components, right?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-29
<ScottK> It doesn't.
<micahg> ScottK: would you mind a featureful upload for bug 375038 in precise?  i.e. add the enable flag and upload with a +xps version
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 375038 in evince (Ubuntu) "XPS file format not supported" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/375038
<jbicha> micahg: libgxps is in universe in Precise though, right?
<ScottK> micahg: Is it a regression?
<jbicha> ScottK: no, it's a new feature
<ScottK> Then I do mind.  It's not SRU material. It should be done in backports.
<ajmitch> micahg: someone submitted seamonkey to the arb. I pointed them in your direction but I'm not entirely convinced they'll contact the team :)
<micahg> ScottK: I was asking for backports, sorry :)
<micahg> ajmitch: hrm, it needs to be updated every 6 weeks, if it's easier to do that through the ARB, then go for it
<micahg> with someone willing to commit
<micahg> ajmitch: unless bkerensa objects (he's working on it for the distro)
<micahg> I'm normally against such things, but it's a real bear
<ajmitch> micahg: definitely not a candidate for the ARB due to size
<ajmitch> I know you probably don't want to commit time to it
<micahg> ajmitch: ok, well, as I told bkerensa, I'm willing to sponsor uploads if people are willing to do the work to maintain it
<micahg> jbicha: yeah, that's why I was thinking backports ;)
<bkerensa> ajmitch: Whats up?
<bkerensa> >.<
 * bkerensa looks up
<bkerensa> the arb handles packages too?
<bkerensa> Hmm is someone looking to maintain seamonkey or whats the purpose of going to the arb versus having someone sponsor it?
<ajmitch> what do you mean by 'handles packages'?
<ajmitch> they submitted a binary tarball
<bkerensa> ajmitch: I thought they only did like applications for independent developers or something that needs introduction not established things
<bkerensa> ahh
<bkerensa> ajmitch: do you not what version of Seamonkey the tarball they submitted was?
<ajmitch> 2.10.1
<ajmitch> & yes, submissions ought to be from someone associated with the project
<bkerensa> well I dont object... In fact I might welcome it especially if they are interested in collaborating on maintaining it
 * jbicha points to the confusingly named Debian package http://packages.qa.debian.org/iceape
<ajmitch> bkerensa: I told him to contact the mozilla team if he's interested in helping out
 * micahg keeps getting mails about chromium
<ajmitch> offers of help?
<micahg> no, questions where people can get updates ;)
<ajmitch> hah
 * micahg should just say Debian unstable :)
<micahg> we really need someone like fta :)
<ajmitch> what, someone with lots of time & energy?
<micahg> yes, and crazy computing power :)
<jbicha> did Canonical ever fill that Webkit/Chromium job they were hiring for?
<jbicha> I'm assuming not
 * micahg doesn't see the opening on the website
<micahg> xnox is going to be so happy that boost1.50 just landed in unstable :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> so glad you found a willing maintainer ;)
 * micahg never touched the stuff :)
<ajmitch> you're missing out
 * micahg will add it to his bucket list....
<ajmitch> 101 easy ways to make you want to kick the bucket?
<micahg> heh
<bkerensa> micahg: the emails are probably my fault
<bkerensa> >.<
<micahg> bkerensa: I'm just glad it linked to my LP profile :)
 * ajmitch still can't reach svn.webkit.org, it's rather odd
<bkerensa> micahg: oh I wouldnt put anyones public e-mail
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<bkerensa> gnight micahg ajmitch
<ajmitch> night bkerensa
<micahg> night bkerensa
<dupondje> bdrung: there ? :)
<AmberJ> Hello
<AmberJ> Do I get it right that we do 'debuild -S -sa
<AmberJ> *Do I get it right that we run 'debuild -S -sa' on the host system to create the source package (and do only 'pbuilder build file.dsc' inside pbuilder chroot)?
<AmberJ> Do we only build inside pbuilder chroot? Or, are we supposed to create source package (using 'debuild -S') inside pbuilder chroot as well?
<_ruben> do you dont do any chroot'ing yourself, the pbuidler command will do the building within a clean chroot environment, the source package indeed is built in the host system
<AmberJ> yes, we don't do chrooting ourself.. but I thought maybe we are supposed to use
<AmberJ> Damn RETURN key!
<AmberJ> **yes, we don't do chrooting ourselves.. but I thought maybe we are supposed to use 'pbuilder --execute' to create source package inside pbuilder chroot as well
<AmberJ> I just thought of confirming. Ok, I'll create source package on host system then. Thanks _ruben
<tumbleweed> normally, building the source pa ckage doesn't actually require all the dependencies
<tumbleweed> so it can easily be done on whatever you are running
<tumbleweed> if it won't build, just disable cleaning (-nc) if you're are doing all your building in a pbuilder, that'll be safe to do
<AmberJ> ok
<AmberJ> And, if I have package from a Launchpad PPA as a build dependency, the preferred way to install it inside chroot is to use 'pbuilder --execute' to install package from PPA inside pbuilder chroot?
<Zhenech> tumbleweed, clean should work (and be done) always, or you end up with a diff.gz that is unclean and refuses a new build when someone downloads it
<tumbleweed> Zhenech: if you haven't done anything to make it dirty, it'll be clean
<Zhenech> tumbleweed, but then -nc wouldnt be needed :)
<tumbleweed> Zhenech: I don't follow
<Zhenech> tumbleweed, rereading your sentence: you meant -nc when building *source*, not *binary*?
<tumbleweed> yes, if you do all your binary building in a pbuilder
<Zhenech> ok, my mind read *binary* at the first occurence too -.-
<Zhenech> coffee please
 * tumbleweed re-reads and sees it was totally unclear :)
<Zhenech> two coffee then :)
<tumbleweed> it's been a frustrating morning. international connectivity is crawling because a submarine cable is down :/
<Zhenech> homeoffice today here, so rather chilly :)
<bdrung> dupondje: now
<dupondje> bdrung: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/1018087
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018087 in totem (Ubuntu) "Seek bar not working with left click" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> got a patch for audacious
<dupondje> want to do a fix in debian and then sync or?
<bdrung> dupondje: the best way would to get the patch into upstream before getting it into Ubuntu through Debian (because audacious upstream is difficult and often complained about ubuntu patching bugs into it)
<dupondje> bdrung: its upstream for 3.3.x
<dupondje> https://github.com/audacious-media-player/audacious-plugins/commit/1957913f4857df0845ae7e15dadc93e38c248a0e
<bdrung> dupondje: good.
<dupondje> but its not clean imo
<dupondje> it will break on GTK+ < 3.5
<bdrung> hm
<dupondje> they should keep the hack for GTK+ < 3.5
<dupondje> but ok :p
<Laney> add something like "#if !GTK_CHECK_VERSION(3,5,0)" then
<bdrung> gtk 3.4 is in unstable, so we need an improved patch
<dupondje> see http://redmine.audacious-media-player.org/issues/138
<dupondje> I proposed a patch with GTK_CHECK_VERSION ...
<Laney> oh well, maybe they want the stock behaviour
<dupondje> Laney: applying their patch, will change the behavious for current users ...
<dupondje> so
<dupondje> its not preferred I guess :)
<Laney> but you're only going to have it in quantal.
<dupondje> Laney: depends if bdrung prefers to upload it first in debian :)
<Laney> why would he do that when it definitely would change behaviour? and one day before the freeze.
<bdrung> dupondje: it prefer debian first. i can do the upload if you give me a patch
<bdrung> the patch should work for gtk < 3.5
<Laney> sounds like you're poking upstream with a stick there
<Laney> he explicitly refused that patch
<dupondje> http://redmine.audacious-media-player.org/attachments/download/89/slider_fix.patch
<bdrung> okay, then let's carry that patch in ubuntu
<dupondje> upstream should get slapped
<dupondje> breaking current behaviour for GTK+ <= 3.4
<dupondje> so bdrung, just do it in ubuntu ?
<bdrung> dupondje: upstream is not very packager friendly
<bdrung> dupondje: yes
<dupondje> i'll fix it then :)
<bdrung> dupondje: can you state in the commit that this patch can be dropped in 3.3?
<dupondje> sure
<dupondje> bdrung: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious/+bug/1018087 could you upload it for me ? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1018087 in totem (Ubuntu) "Seek bar not working with left click" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> thx :)
<ScottK> micahg: For backports, things like that are totally fine as long as it's an actual backport (fix it in the development release first).
<PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
<jbitcm-> hello can you help me to undestand how i can adopt a package
<ScottK> jbitcm-: Ubuntu doesn't have a concept of package maintainers, so adoption is purely informal and something you do by just doing the work to keep the package in shape.
<jbitcm-> ScottK, thanks for answer but now i have a pbuilder system and i want to help to package in ubuntu
<ScottK> OK.  That's a much more general question.  My usual advice is to find bugs in things that you use and are bothering you and then see if you can figure out how to fix them.
<tumbleweed> if you are looking for something easy to get started with: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
<ScottK> ajmitch: boost1.50 just hit quantal (in Universe, not Main).
 * ScottK waits for the twitch.
<micahg> autosync FTW
<Laney> ajmitch is The Boost Guy now?
<ScottK> Definitely.  Him or xnox.
 * Laney likes them apples
 * ScottK too.
<ajmitch> ScottK: micahg told me about 1.50 earlier. The responsibility has definitely passed to xnox
<ScottK> Fortunately he doesn't hang out here, so he can't defend himself.
<ajmitch> even better
<AmberJ_> I'm trying to get extra packages installed in pbuilder.
<AmberJ_> I'm using: sudo pbuilder update --extrapackages python-software-properties sudo
<AmberJ_> But it won't install 'sudo' ... I'm sure I'm messing up with the format of command.
<micahg>  --extrapackages [packages-to-add on pbuilder create]
<AmberJ_> micahg: Do I need to add those square brackets as well?
<micahg> AmberJ_: no, that just means it only works on create, not update
<tumbleweed> but you can do anything you want with a pbuilder login --save-after-login
<AmberJ_> micahg: Ah, that means I should use something like 'sudo pbuilder create --extrapackages PAC1 PAC2 ...' ... right?
<xnox> Who has been talking about me, behind my back?!
<xnox> ajmitch: ScottK ????
 * ScottK whistles.
<ajmitch> I wouldn't do a thing like that
 * Laney wonders how information managed to leak out of this fortress
<tumbleweed> he must have an informer
<ajmitch> as long as he gets boost uploaded...
<AmberJ_> tumbleweed: 'man pbuilder' says (about --login): "Only use this for temporary and debugging purposes." ... So I thought of staying away from --login
<tumbleweed> AmberJ_: it's the easiest way to make changes to the chroots
<micahg> pbuilder hooks are a good way to make temporary or per-build changes
<xnox> It was discussed on the release team bug about boost1.49, that boost1.50 will be released in time, but there will not be another boost transition! It takes 2-3 months to do in Debian.
<xnox> And I do not want more than one boost transition in a cycle, thank you very much.
<xnox> =))))))))))))))))))))))))))
<ajmitch> but they're fun
 * micahg doesn't think we should have 2 versions of boost
<xnox> well we currently, already do!
<ajmitch> and it already causes issues
 * micahg files for removal
<xnox> 1.46 and 1.49
<micahg> 1.46 is going away
<xnox> well yeah.
<micahg> and we're early enough for another transition
<xnox> when are archive rebuilds scheduled for?
<xnox> micahg: will boost1.50 bee blacklisted?
<micahg> after DIF
<xnox> cause I fear that loads of packages that do not link against boost, but use it's templates may FTBFS in funny gcc-4.7 kind of ways
<micahg> xnox: well, if I file for removal, yes
<xnox> micahg: please do ;-)
 * xnox is busy packing the house for moving
<micahg> ScottK: does this sound reasonable?
<AmberJ_> ok, I'll try --login and hooks now..
<ScottK> micahg: I think having 1.50 in Universe is OK.
<ScottK> Some developers always want the latest boost, so it's good to provide it.
<AmberJ_> Thanks micahg tumbleweed!
<ajmitch> except when they build-depend on a package whcih depends on an older boost
<ScottK> Yes.  Then it can get fun, but you can't have everything.
<xnox> boost1.50 by itself is fine, as long as boost-defaults doesn't get switched with an autosync
<ScottK> xnox: Exactly.
<ScottK> Debian isn't changing the default now, so it's fine.
<ajmitch> with debian freezing, I doubt that there'll be a switch to 1.50 there
<xnox> but we can do the rebuilds easily if boost1.50 is in the archive
<micahg> ok, well, it doesn't seem to get updated in stable anyways, so it can stay :)
<xnox> simply have a ppa with boost-defaults switched to 1.50, build depend on that and voila rebuild environment ready
<ScottK> Yep.
<xnox> ajmitch: I have been killing packages that build-depend on versioned boost-dev libs.
<xnox> ajmitch: I adjusted the tracker to take those into account. But maybe I need more
<xnox> regexp/different tracker to kill all of those
<ajmitch> xnox: just trying to recall if the problem I came across was something that was in the archive or not
<ajmitch> upstream was using 1.48 features, anyway
<xnox> ajmitch: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/boost1.49.html
<xnox> ajmitch: oh boost1.48 was funny. It was in the archive, but it never became the boost-defaults (not in ubuntu at least) as far as I can see
<xnox> ajmitch: what is your launchpad id?
<ajmitch> right, because it was transitioning in debian too late, causing too many issues
<ajmitch> my lp id is ajmitch
<xnox> for boost1.49 transition these are the remaining bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=boost1.49
<ajmitch> the situation with 1.48 is what we're talking about with 1.50 - get it in, but don't make it default
 * ajmitch got suckered into patching boost one day to fix a python problem
 * ajmitch blames ScottK for that one
<ScottK> ;-)
<ScottK> xnox: For packages that are actively maintained in Ubuntu, I think the versioned build-depends are fine.  Personally, I don't want to change boost versions by accident.
<xnox> ScottK: actively maintained packages don't typically cause any issues. It's unmaintained stuff which causes the most amount of time
<ScottK> Yeah.  I just mention it so you don't go overboard on killing off the versioned ones.
<xnox> ScottK: I am actually very conservative, at least I think so....
<ScottK> OK.
<AmberJ_> How do you guys test your build inside pbuilder chroot if your build depends on Launchpad PPA?
<AmberJ_> How do you tell pbuilder chroot to include the PPA as build depends?
<xnox> AmberJ_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Building_With_Local_Packages
<xnox> AmberJ_: or you can do --login --save-after-exec
<xnox> add the sources line, update / dist-upgrade
<xnox> logout
<xnox> and do your builds again
<AmberJ_> Right thanks xnox.
<AmberJ_> The wiki page link reminds me that I should read the whole wiki page first before asking questions!
<xnox> ScottK: who does / did ubiquity Qt/KDE frontend?
<ScottK> Various people over time.  Of the people that are still around, Ridell has done the most.
<xnox> ok. I will ping him about LVM/LUKS stuff then
<xnox> as far as I know I didn't break Qt frontend with my bits, but I didn't implement LVM/LUKS for Qt either
<ScottK> My recollection is that cjwatson said foundations was going to do that (not you necessarily).
<ScottK> It's critical for dropping the Kubuntu alternates.
<xnox> I know
<xnox> ScottK: It's just I only fiddled with pyqt for a couple of hours back in the qt3 time
<xnox> and I don't know C++ / Qt
<ScottK> It's PyQt/PyKDE anyway.
<xnox> i can read C++ and I did many patches.... but I still claim that I have no formal knowledge of these technologies.
<xnox> with gtk+ it's like: "huh?! why would you write this, when you can do this in a rather less complicated and more straight forward way"
<xnox> but again, I am one of those people who loves and enjoys C *a lot*
<Laney> xnox: 29/06 23:11:23 <rlb> fwiw, emacs24 has been uploaded to unstable
<xnox> Laney: YEAH! =)
<ajmitch> now that has to make it into precise-backports
<xnox> Laney: can't find dsc
<Laney> probably NEW?
<xnox> Laney: can't see in NEW, nor incomming, nor the archive
<Laney> Timestamp: 29.06.2012 / 22:00:06 (UTC)
<Laney> want to bet it's there next time?
<xnox> Laney: should we make emacs24 default in quantal?
<Laney> I guess
<ScottK> What's default in Wheezy?
<Laney> depends on the rdeps I suppose
<xnox> me, you, barry and loads of other people will be happy!
<xnox> ScottK: emacs23
<ScottK> Then we're on our own for updating rdepends.
<ScottK> I'd investigate how much work that is before deciding.
 * xnox runs emacs24 from the ppa with no trouble what's so ever
<xnox> but then again i am a light user of rdepends
<xnox> ScottK: there is an AppStore for emacs24 now, so if it isn't the default it should still be ok.
<Laney> I suppose we should have it as a non-default option for a while.
<xnox> Laney: are you going to snitch the dsc from new and upload it?
<Laney> you can't get files out of new
<xnox> =((((( incomming?
<Laney> no
<xnox> =(((((
<xnox> ok
<Laney> well, you can in general, but that doesn't work for new stuff
<Laney> we'll just have to wait
<xnox> patience is a virtue
<Laney> I imagine it might sneak its way into wheezy
<xnox> *grin*
<xnox> good night everyone!
<xnox> off to bed
<AmberJ> Laters
#ubuntu-motu 2012-06-30
<jbicha> I thought I'd give submittodebian a try, but it's not working for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1066966/
<Laney> bah
<Laney> broder: the path to your lintian.log changed
<Laney> can you symlink or redirect /lintian.log to /<dev-release>/lintian.log?
<Laney> one less place for consumers to update
<nperry> micahg, are you still looking for help with the chromium ppa?
<hakermania> Am I able to use these icons (crediting the artists at debian/copyright): http://tux.crystalxp.net/en.id.18355-pusio-angus-young.html    The Lisence is Creative Commons BY-NC-SA, which is lested at http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/#license-specification but in the left it says Copying and/or reproducing the Tux Factory in any way, partially or completely, is strictly forbidden. I am confused.
<hakermania> listed*
<Laney> use them for what?
<tumbleweed> the Non-Commercial clause isn't suitable for things in main/universe, if that's the question?
<hakermania> Laney, use them in my application
<arand> hakermania: Are those images based on templates provided by that site? In that case, no, unless you ask the site to relicense this content and the author to clarify the license. If all the bits of the image are based on bits which have a free license,
<arand> ... Then it might work, but you still would need to ask the author if the image is provided from some other source.
<arand> Since it appears CrystalXP automaticallly imposes an additional set of non-free conditions for any works which are hosted there (and presumably the author agreed to these when uploading the work there...)
<hakermania> arand, I hate copyrights :( Especially when the copyright isn't clear!
<Laney> it is clear
<Laney> there's a non-commercial restriction which makes the work non-free
<Laney> either get the author to relicense or find something else to use
<arand> Yeah, in either case, you might want to look elsewhere for an image.
<directhex> when do automatic pulls from debian end, this cycle?
<jtaylor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<jtaylor> july 5
<vibhav> directhex: Do you Debian Import Freeze?
<directhex> k
<jtaylor> if I use the version in quantal in total for a precise bugfix, how should the changelog look like?
<jtaylor> based on precise or the quantal version?
<jtaylor> see bug 1019604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1019604 in pudb (Ubuntu) "pudb shell does not work with ipython 0.12 and configuration issue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019604
<Laney> I've done both
<Laney> Don't think it particularly matters as long as the version number is in between the two
<jtaylor> so its no problem to have last entry lower than the bfore last?
<Laney> I don't see why
<jtaylor> k I'll upload that then to proposed
<Laney> but I'm not on the SRU team, etc.
 * Laney needs MOAR TEAMS
<Laney> let's see if this emacs24 backport builds for us
<Laney> ftbfs on debian/i386 :/
<broder> Laney: fixed, sorry about that
<dupondje> cyphermox: there ?
<dupondje> cyphermox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1015350 any chance you can upload new NM version soon ? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015350 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "openvpn connection start successfully, and fail in ~ 2 minutes" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ailo> What would be an easy way to make config changes to -generic, and upload with a custom name to PPA?
<ailo> I've been trying to get my head around a lot of it. Know my way around git, but not as much when it comes to debian packaging.
<ailo> I'm able to upload fine, but the build fails because of the change in the configs that I made
<ailo> Here's a build log https://launchpadlibrarian.net/109017347/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.linux_3.5.0-2.3-lowlatency_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<tumbleweed> ailo: the ubuntu kernel is a particularly complex package, that most of us don't know at all. I suggest chatting to kernel people in #ubuntu-kernel
<ailo> tumbleweed: Yep
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-01
<micahg> nperry: yes
<dupondje> bdrung: audacious released new version (with the (bad) patch included)
<vibhav> dholbach: ping
<vibhav> jamespage: ping
<jamespage> vibhav, pong
<vibhav> jamespage: Can I PM You?
<jamespage> vibhav,yes
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-24
<radon_> on
<radon_> later
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<mitya57> Can anybody test if you are able to load your passwords with python-keyring from sid/saucy?
<mitya57> I.e. with any command from ubuntu-dev-tools
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-25
<dholbach> good morning
<vlad205> good morning
<geser> good morning
 * iulian waves.
<pipedream> help.ubuntu.com certificate expired?
<pipedream> help.ubuntu.com uses an invalid security certificate.
<pipedream> The certificate expired on 17/06/2013 23:08. The current time is 25/06/2013 10:51.
<Laney> not here
<Laney> 17/06/14
<hyperair> it says 18/6/2014 here
<hyperair> probably due to timezone differences.
<pipedream> help.ubuntu.com working again
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-26
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<A117> could anyone review my ppa please?
<mfisch> Laney: So to re-state the question, now that I'm a MOTU I'm actually having trouble finding stuff to work on and was interested how you guys find places to help
<Laney> weeeeeeeell
<mfisch> Sponsor queue?
<Laney> last week doko did an archive rebuild test and there are a ton of build failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20130614-saucy.html
<Laney> (two weeks ago)
<mfisch> Laney: I actually went through that and picked some random ones to look at
<Laney> sponsoring is worthwhile too (get dholbach to put you in the patch pilot rotation)
<Laney> ajmitch: here? http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ is 500ing
<mfisch> Laney: You need to find the right build failures, odd Haskell test case failures are not my forte
<Laney> if it weren't then that would be an interesting page
<mfisch> Laney: if you are not a patch pilot can you still help?
<Laney> yeah, you can always sponsor whenever
<Laney> I just find that piloting gives me a defined slot to sit down and go at it
<mfisch> Laney: I looked at the sponsor queue but most already had at least a comment by someone
<mfisch> Laney: is it fair game just to grab one?
<Laney> yes, unless someone else is working on it
<Laney> you can assign it to yourself to make that clear
<mfisch> Laney: perfect
<Laney> another thing to work on might be seeing why stuff is stuck in saucy-proposed: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt (quite confusing at first, no doubt)
<mfisch> Laney: for ftbfs, I usually look at the list and pick out something that I at least know what it is before starting to examine it
<Laney> sounds like a fair way to keep interest
<Laney> you might also figure out how to fix a class of error and then look for failures in that class
<Laney> this rebuild might have certain problems induced by gcc-4.8 for example
<mfisch> or else I end up with something that was an ancient Ada compiler that was one I looked at
<Laney> there's a /lot/ of stuff in universe
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/arb/+bug/1194864 might be an easy one to sponsor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1194864 in arb (Ubuntu) "Please merge arb 5.5-2 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Undecided,In progress]
<Laney> don't forget -v when building the source package :-)
<mfisch> Laney: what bug tags are you looking for there?
<Laney> I just looked at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<Laney> towards the end since at a rough approximation being older implies that the request is hard for some reason
<mfisch> Laney: yep
<mfisch> Laney: most of those were non-universe last time I looked and I was worried about duplicate work, but I'll use this as a future resource
<Laney> no harm pinging the person that commented
<mfisch> Laney: I'm also doing some new packages but sending direct to Debian instead via a DD
<Laney> yay
<mfisch> My timezone kills me for pinging, by the time I have free time it's like 1am uk time, so East coast and europe are asleep :(
<mfisch> I guess email still works these days
<Laney> quite a good idea to have an IRC bouncer or similar
<Laney> then you don't have to be /there/ for people to reply to you
<mfisch> Laney: true, and I do have a BIP server
<mfisch> Laney: thanks for the ideas
<mfisch> Laney: there's also looking at bugs with patches and building debs/debdiffs
<Laney> oh yeah, there used to be the ubuntu-review (or something) team but it kind of went away
<Laney> there's a script which subscribes them to bugs with patches
<mfisch> I think there's still tags you can search on
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-reviewers/+patches
<Laney> obscure launchpad page HOOOOOOOOO
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-27
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<geser> Hi dholbach and ajmitch
<dholbach> hey geser
<ajmitch> hi geser
<iulian> Oh no, it's ajmitch!
<iulian> Morning.
<paultag> jbicha: sorry about that dput-ng bug, I'll fix that up for you shortly
<paultag> jbicha: in the meantime, you can disable that hook (allowed-distribution)
<paultag> jbicha: also, what's that hook running on your upload? I like it, mind sending a patch in? :)
<jbicha> paultag: do you mean backportpackage? that's just part of ubuntu-dev-tools
<paultag> OK.
<paultag> I assumed the string "Do you want to upload the package to ppa:gnome3-team/gnome3" was coming out of dput-ng
<jbicha> yeah, that's just backportpackage
<paultag> righto
<jbicha> I wonder when devscripts & ubuntu-dev-tools will default to dput-ng instead of dput
<paultag> there are native python bindings in python-dput
<paultag> so you can invoke the uploader without shelling out
<jbicha> paultag: could you have dput-ng reject uploads to Ubuntu if 'ppa' is part of the uploaded version?
<paultag> jbicha: yes, absolutely
<paultag> jbicha: all the hooks are astoundingly easy to write
<paultag> jbicha: that would be an importable 3 line function and one json def file - if you want to try patching it in, I can help you out, so you can make future features like that happen :)
<paultag> jbicha: I have some docs sitting at http://dput-ng.debian.net/en/latest/reference/hooks.html
<paultag> jbicha: but I'd be happy to work with you on it on IRC or whatever
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-28
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> G'morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
 * Laney gnaws on Rhonda
<Laney> can you make p.u.c know about saucy pretty please? :-)
<Laney> well, it knows about saucy - know about saucy's packages/contents ...
<Rhonda> I think I got the right motivation to investigate further on sunday.
<Rhonda> Actually I have no clue what's going on but am fully aware of the issue, have received a fair amount of legit mail about it already
<Laney> oh, cool!
<Laney> ok then sorry for generating further noise :P
<Laney> I'll provide you with suitable beverages at debconf to make up for all the traffic ;-)
<Rhonda> \o/
<Laney> (I just got a bug report where someone wrongly concluded that a 'broken' (actually not) changelog was breaking p.u.c)
<Rhonda> It's the changelog's fault !!!1!!!dwarfs!!
<Laney> if only it were that simple eh
<Laney> RAOF: you left #debian-cli? Anyway, was wondering if you could poke at the gnome-do* FTBFS in unstable? https://bugs.launchpad.net/do/+bug/1097712/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1097712 in Do "Error building with mono 3" [Undecided,New]
<RAOF> Sure, sometime over the weekend.
<Laney> that bug has a patch anyhow
<Laney> great
<alo21> hi... I can't merge cbmc package, due to patch problem
<alo21> I got: patching file src/ansi-c/c_preprocess.cpp
<alo21> Hunk #1 FAILED at 590.
<alo21> 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED
<alo21> dpkg-source: info: fuzz is not allowed when applying patches
<alo21> dpkg-source: info: if patch 'armhf-preprocessing' is correctly applied by quilt, use 'quilt refresh' to update it
<alo21> dpkg-source: error: LC_ALL=C patc
<alo21> I run quit-refresh and I got: Nothing in patch minisat-debian
<alo21> and I can't build the package.. why=
<alo21> ?*
<rbasak> alo21: try "quilt pop armhf-preprocessing" to go back to that patch, then "quilt refresh" on there, then "quilt push -a" to push them all back again?
<alo21> rbasak, 'pop armhf-preprocessing' says the patch is not applied
<rbasak> alo21: oh but hold on - you don't have fuzz, you have a rejection. I think you'll need to examine the patch and fix it up manually.
<alo21> rbasak, how? what fuzz mean...
<alo21> the patch seems to be ok
<alo21> rbasak, I have just weird (i think) line on the third line 'Forwarded: no'
<rbasak> alo21: fuzz is when the patch context didn't exactly match, but patch was able to guess and apply it anyway. It says "1 out of 1 hunk FAILED" so it looks like the patch doesn't apply at all though.
<rbasak> alo21: you should be able to run "patch --dry-run -p1 < debian/patches/armhf-preprocessing" without errors.
<alo21> rbasak, it tells me 'reversed patch detected'
<alo21> assume -R?
<rbasak> alo21: perhaps the patch has been adpoted by Debian, so you need to drop it? I check manually in these cases.
<alo21> rbasak, the patch has been created for Ubuntu only
<rbasak> alo21: that doesn't mean that Debian or upstream can't take it.
<rbasak> alo21: you need to check manually why the patch doesn't apply.
<paultag> Forwarded: no patches are almost always troublesome - if anything it should be not-needed or similar
<alo21> rbasak, debian didn't apply the patch, because that part of file changed
<rbasak> alo21: OK, so you need to decide if the patch is still needed in Ubuntu. If it is, then you need to fix it up. If it can be dropped, then drop it and note the reason in the changelog.
<alo21> rbasak, that means that I have to drop that patch.. right?
<alo21> ou...ok
<rbasak> Whether or not you can drop the patch depends on the original reason for the patch. Try to avoid a regression.
<alo21> rbasak, I solved that problem, but during the building I got: wmm/goto2graph.cpp:935:20: error: 'current_po' may be used uninitialized in this function [-Werror=maybe-uninitialized]  goto_programt* current_po;
<rbasak> alo21: I'm not really sure how to help you further here. Fixing this kind of issue involves needing a more in-depth knowledge of the specific problem you're getting.
<alo21> rbasak, c++ programming too?
<alo21> rbasak, does that error means that the variable is unused?
<rbasak> alo21: right. Here it looks like the build system forces warnings to be errors. But that suggests that in Debian it does work OK. Perhaps try a Debian chroot to see if it's the Ubuntu toolchain.
<rbasak> Or perhaps one of the other patches introduces that.
<alo21> rbasak, it's weird, because the previous devel wrote in changelog: 'cbmc (4.2-6ubuntu1) raring; urgency=low * Don't fail on unused-result warnings.'
<rbasak> alo21: perhaps he patched it previously?
<alo21> rbasak, it what?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-06-30
<marawan2> hello
<marawan2> pfifo:
<marawan2> #ubuntu-eg
<gotwig> hey
<gotwig> is wayland going to be packaged for multiverse/universe?
<lifeless> it already is
<gotwig> lifeless: and its actual?
<gotwig> lifeless: because Kubuntu/Lubuntu/EFL dont want to use Mir
<ogra_> gotwig, then it is up to them to care for keeping it up to date
<gotwig> but its going to be in the official ubunu repos, right?
<gotwig> *ubuntu sry
<ogra_> universe
<ogra_> but yeah
<gotwig> ok
<lifeless> gotwig: rmadison wayland
<gotwig> lifeless: I dont understand
<lifeless> gotwig: its a basic tool for ubuntu development, reports on the status of a package.
<StevenK> gotwig: Wayland is already in every current Ubuntu release, but if you want to make your machine use it, you're on your own.
<ScottK> Wayland is in main in any case.
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-23
<whitepowder> i'm trying to put together a recovery usb stick. It has 2 partitions (fat16 2gb and btrfs 14gb) I've got syslinux, freedos, grub4dos, and my preseed configs on it. I need to be able to install 12.04.4 from this, configured pretty much entirely automatically. I'd like to keep the preseed in the fat16 part, so it can be changed from a windows box if needed. Ideas? So far im having problems with iso being rejected by d-i,
<whitepowder> CLosest i had this to working was using the hd-media installer from 12.04 but that gave problems since 12.04.4 uses a newer kernel and it complained modules didnt match. Is there a place to get the hd-media installer for 12.04.4?
<whitepowder> I probably should note that im using kubuntu but that doesnt really matter i suppose
<whitepowder> Ideally, i could put packages (a partial local mirror) on the second partition and the installer find them there. Could i then use net-install image? Sorry to be so annoying but i really need to get this recovery disk going so i can get home from visiting family
<melodie> whitepow1er why fat16 and not fat32?
<whitepow1er> melodie: its 2gb partition, easier to work with from other os if keep it fat16
<melodie> the main goal for btrfs in usb stick, is what?
<whitepow1er> melodie: the second partition could be any fs (ext[234] or btrfs), just used btrfs as the guide i was initially working off of used it. That partition is to store packages, our programs, configs etc that need to be installed
<melodie> whitepow1er because the first thing I understood from your demand is "recovery usb stick"
<melodie> when I create usb boots, I use either the usb-creator-gtk tool to get a working usb stick with persistency, on Fat32 which allows adding files that can be accessed from other os'es (windows, mac, linux whatever)
<melodie> or
<whitepow1er> melodie: my end goal is a usb stick that can be stuck in the machine and either booted from as a read-only minimal live system (no GUI and works now) or installing a system using preseed to avoid the user having to be smart
<whitepow1er> been having some issues trying to get hd-media working, what i've gathered from google is that it has been broke since 11.x
<melodie> if you got such a big usb stick why not do a simple fat32/grub2/iso multiboot thing?
<melodie> I have done that recently with a tutorial found at the ubuntu-fr.org wiki, I have 3 isos booted from the grub2 stanza
<melodie> I can add other iso images and do the dame
<melodie> same
<melodie> it boots iso images
<whitepow1er> I cant directly use grub2 from usb stick, i've only been able to get things to boot from syslinux, tho i supposei  could chainload grub2
<whitepow1er> im not sure how i'd provide the preseed file to the installer then, since it'd be quite a pain to have to remaster the iso every time it needs small changes
<melodie> why can't you? If I could (and I just followed a simple tutorial) what is the isse you would meet with?
<whitepow1er> melodie: im going to assume bios bug but never have been able to get grub2 to work from usb stick on this machine (same stick worked on others), whereas syslinux just works
<melodie> I haven't played with preceed files so far, but I suppose it could be changed directly with file-roller
<melodie> you might want to try
<melodie> whitepow1er oh yes, bios bugs happen
<melodie> have you also tried to boot it using a plop boot manager cd?
<whitepow1er> I dont have an optical drive
<melodie> so another stick maybe?
<melodie> plop holds in a floppy, so even a very small usb stick could be used
<whitepow1er> I've got an idea but idk if its any more useful than the hd-media stuff i've been fighting with all day
<whitepow1er> booting the net-install image and putting a partial local mirror on the 2nd partition of the usb stick, then point at it as the mirror
<melodie> whitepow1er you use 12.04, right?
<melodie> and isolinux
<whitepow1er> syslinux yea
<melodie> or syslinux
<melodie> you can use the initrd.lz and vmlinux instead of hd-media
<melodie> the ones from your iso image
<melodie> and use the content of the txt.cfg to create your syslinux.cfg
<whitepow1er> tried those from install/ in the iso, get 'Incorrect CD-ROM' error
<melodie> have you extracted them and copied them to the / of the usb stick?
<melodie> they usually need to be "close to the surface"
<melodie> on a primary partition that is
<whitepow1er> Yes to /boot on part 0 of the stick. Now, If i use the hd-media install from 12.04 (couldnt find 12.04.4) i can get a little further, in that it recognizes the iso but fails because different kernel version in the 12.04.4 iso
<melodie> whitepow1er I have been using Ubuntu builder since months, with the ubuntu mini remix iso, and this is very fast to make an iso : the program is no longer developed but I continue using it, and hopefully, a buddy who is interested will take on to continue it
<melodie> just a few minutes are necessary each time, to make a new one
<melodie> I haven't used the products on else than fat32 sticks though, so I don't know how it would go there
<whitepow1er> im pretty sure there wouldnt be much difference from fat16 to fat32 honestly
<whitepow1er> besides supporting large file system and files
<melodie> all I know about fat16 is that I have seen it on cards for numeric cameras
<melodie> else than that I didn't know it could support large files
<melodie> Fat32 : aren't iso files large files?
<whitepow1er> 2gb is the limit
<melodie> ok I see
<melodie> and what is the limit for fat16?
<whitepow1er> fat16 is 2gb file size limit, im not sure what fat32 is
<melodie> ok
<melodie> 4 GB minus one octet
<melodie> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAT32#Limitations_de_FAT32
<melodie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_of_the_FAT_file_system#Size_limits
<whitepow1er> i wasnt sure, never got around to adding fat32 support to my kernel, barely used fat at all besides in the boot loader
<melodie> what method do you use for remastering?
<melodie> just curious
<whitepow1er> trying to avoid remastering, honestly
<melodie> too much work?
<melodie> I mean you have been doing it manually, sort of From Scratch method or so?
<whitepow1er> i was trying to get the hd-media installer stuff working, so i could just use a plain old -alternate iso and a preseed config
<melodie> kubuntu made lighter?
<melodie> you also said you used kde?
<whitepow1er> Ideally, updating the stick to a newer ubuntu then would just require replacing the iso image, editing syslinux.cfg to point to the new iso and if something big changed, editing the preseed file
<melodie> yes, that sounds nice
<melodie> I'll have to have a look at these preceed files more closely
<melodie> how do you point to your preceed file? do you change it inside the iso?
<whitepow1er> melodie: preseed automates the installation, from what ive gathered from irc and google, you have to use the alternate cd for fully unattended
<melodie> I don't really know what is "unattended" as in "Checking for unattended upgrades" shutdown message. :?
<whitepow1er> melodie:    append initrd=boot/kubuntu32/initrd.gz preseed/file=/hd-media/preseed/ninja.seed file=/iso/kubuntu-12.04.4-alternate-i386.iso
<whitepow1er> melodie: Unattended means without user having to answer questions, its all in the preseed file
<melodie> no questions... he does not have to choose from a list of packages: is that so?
<melodie> as in the Ubuntu server, you have to choose from lists of meta packages or lists of packages: is that what it is about?
<whitepow1er> melodie: Language, host name, pretty much anything that the installer would ask can be put into preseed file
<whitepow1er> As little or as much settings as needed
<melodie> ok...
<whitepow1er> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-intro.html
<melodie> thanks, I'll add this to a few pages I need to read
<melodie> whitepow1er what about the users you were mentioning just before? are you also doing this to hand over you usb stick to some people who will just use it?
<whitepow1er> melodie: Just to the owner of the computer im dealing with
<whitepow1er> maybe in the future other friends/family too, when they have more complicated set ups
<melodie> will he have to install from that stick?
<melodie> or just use in read only mode?
<whitepow1er> install from stick, just without all the questions and partitioning and stuff. It's kinda like the recovery disk come with windows computer
<whitepow1er> erase computer (except /home) and reinstall things
<melodie> except home
<melodie> I was thinking about obi, the method provided by sudodu, but this erases the disk fully
<melodie> and 9w whatever it is
<melodie> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OBI
<melodie> ok, good night. whitepow1er good luck!
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-24
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-25
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<Laney> motu!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-26
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-06-27
<Transfusion> hi, i'm chugging along nicely with http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html but I've encountered a couple of problems
<Transfusion> should I do the bzr push in the ~/build-area to upload the package or in the source directory to upload the source
<Transfusion> also... there's no way to upload an unsigned package to one's personal ppa, right
<Transfusion> also, earlier on there was a recommendation to set up a chroot for the latest dev version of ubuntu via debootstrap, so I did that and installed packaging dev in the chroot; but pbuilder in the chroot again...?
 * Transfusion uses common sense and does pbuilder outside, since Transfusion already has Transfusion's pgp key there
<Transfusion> hmm duhh of course I do bzr push in the source directory
 * Transfusion stumbles upon "quickly"
<geser> Transfusion: you need to sign the source package when you want to upload it to your PPA (the signature ensures that it's you who uploaded that package and not somebody else). But it's enough when you sign the package when you are ready for uploading. Testbuilding with pbuilder doesn't care about signed or unsigned.
<Unit193> Hah, just who I was looking for!
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> Howdy. :)
<Unit193> dholbach: http://paste.openstack.org/show/rjoEzY3fkfqJ3RBpyP56/ with just a quick glance over, that looks fine?  This is the thunar-dropbox package, first release so no prior debian/* contributions, and this seemed better than what it was.
<Unit193> (Attaching to the bug if you don't see that as too strange.)
<dholbach> maybe make it 2010-2012 in debian/copyright or 2010,2012
<dholbach> and we don't use the uploaders field in Ubuntu
<dholbach> apart from that it looks good to me
<Unit193> I checked, and 2012 was the git commit date, no file had that as the license.
<Unit193> (IE, when he imported it into git, after release.)
<dholbach> Unit193, it's what the source says
<Unit193> Thanks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1000416
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1000416 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Thunar Dropbox" [Wishlist,In progress]
<dholbach> Unit193, I don't know from where the git import came from
<Unit193> Ah, ok.
<Unit193> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> anytime
<Transfusion> geser: cool!... and glad to say that I have successfully built my first package at https://launchpad.net/~transfusion/+archive/mysandbox/+packages :D
<Transfusion> > ftbfs
<Transfusion> mmm, that's my thing, i love fooling around with dependency hell.
 * Transfusion debootstraps utopic
<Transfusion> is it usually this quiet in here, or is it just my timezone? :P I live in UTC +8, it's 9:12 PM for me atm.
<geser> it's pretty quiet in here for the last couple years :(
<Transfusion> D:
<Transfusion> what a shame
<iulian> geser: I think that's because of me. :-)
<Transfusion> bug fixing, triaging, patch making, whew.
<Transfusion> would you guys have any advice as to where a newb would go first? i'm lookin at the 100 papercuts project/5-A-day bug fixes.
<Transfusion> so that i don't bite off more than I can chew
<Lunario> ubuntu-moto... that sounds fun!!! is it like Jiu-Jitsu?
<Noskcaj> Lunario, sure
<Lunario> nice. but since i can't even spell it right, it's probably hard to learn. i guess, i'll stick to jiu-jitsu
<Noskcaj> ha
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-22
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-23
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-24
<dholbach> good morning
<Laney> hello!
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-25
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-26
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-06-28
<micahg> teward: hi, did you actually test the znc-dev package as you prescribed in the description for the backport request
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-28
<pekkari> hello masters
<pekkari> I got a question about packaging
<pekkari> I tried to upload a package to my launchpad ppa
<pekkari> and the series was wrong, at first, I corrected it, and now it doesn't upload because of the following error
<pekkari> Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net
<pekkari> is there any step I should perform to cleanup this leftover in launchpad?
<jtaylor> pekkari: you have to increase the version
<geser> jtaylor: not needed unless the upload got accepted
<jtaylor> if it complains it already there it probably was accepted
<jtaylor> ppas autoaccept
<geser> jtaylor: it's dput complaining, not launchpad
<jtaylor> ah that is a possibility
<jtaylor> pekkari: in that case remove the .upload file
<geser> or use "dput -f"
<pekkari> is it enough to lets see
<jtaylor> did you get the error per email or on the command line?
<pekkari> per email
<jtaylor> then its accepted and you have to increase the version
<pekkari> ok, I moved it to version 0ubuntu2 and I'm rebuilding now to see what comes out
<geser> jtaylor: LP doesn't accept if you try to upload to e.g. unstable and you can reuse the version after fixing it. Or did LP change?
<jtaylor> my guess is the wrong ubuntu series was used
<jtaylor> so it will accept it
<jtaylor> it shouldn'T complain its already there if it was not accepted
<geser> in that case, you are correct
<pekkari> from the email it's easy to read it was rejected because of using series unstable
<geser> but if you e.g. mistype the series, LP won't accept it, but dput will still complain that it got uploaded already (dput doesn't know it wasn't accepted)
<geser> pekkari: in that case you could reuse the version
<pekkari> mmm... then should I try to force the upload?
<pekkari> I usually think I'm doing something wrong if I have to force
<jtaylor> no its fine
<jtaylor> if its still wrong lp will just reject it again
<jtaylor> as long as its not accepted you can keep uploading, but once accepted its final and you need to bump the version to correct it
<jtaylor> as long as its rejected...
<pekkari> it seems proceeding with the forced upload, however it will takes a while to get it done, it seems a huge upload and upload speed seems to be little
<pekkari> anyway, the build with the second version failed because of missing dsc so I might be missing something
<pekkari> sorry for the absence, plasma make struggles with the screen configs :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-06-30
<pekkari> hi, any master knows how to build pbuilder source code?
<pekkari> seems like the project has a quite interesting documentation
<mapreri> pekkari: you mean, the documentation is scarse and outdated?  Yes, I agree
<mapreri> oh, hi! (pbuilder maintainer)
<mapreri> and I'd love to have somebody to write documentation for me :P
<pekkari> well, I'm not a good writer
<pekkari> but if we comes up with a clear way to build it perhaps I can submit some patch
<pekkari> that should improves the integration of the tool in different distros
<Unit193> mapreri: I wonder if it might be more useful to change the default distro from 'yakkety' to 'devel' for Ubuntu's pbuilder rules.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-26
<sladen> ~
<Unit193> This is your home?
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-27
<Mirv> it is the only home you need
#ubuntu-motu 2017-06-30
<m_crossgist> Hello there is there a way to say not run dh_shlibdeps and dh_makeshlibs ?
<m_crossgist> I have a package that I just need it to copy things to a dir.
<m_crossgist> the make file https://paste.ubuntu.com/24989465/
<m_crossgist> It is the https://releases.linaro.org/components/toolchain/binaries/latest/arm-linux-gnueabihf/   but for 4.9 I need this as some of the other cross compiled code is using it (Qt) and may other things
<m_crossgist> I tried override_dh_shlibdeps: dh_shlibdeps --dpkg-shlibdeps-params=--ignore-missing-info   but this seems to have no effect
<m_crossgist> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libc.so.6 needed by debian/synexxus-gcc-armeabihf-x86-49/var/lib/arm-builder/toolchains/gcc49/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libc/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/gconv/IBM1148.so (ELF format: 'elf32-little'; RPATH: '')
<m_crossgist> is one of many of the errors.
<m_crossgist> and yes  libc.so.6 is installed. But I would like to just disable all the checking of the shared libs as I know that they are good.  I just want a package that copies folders to $(DESTDIR)/where/ever
<m_crossgist> NVM I think I got it by altering the rules files to only do what I wanted it to do.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-25
<Unit193> sil2100: https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-26
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Please sync desktopnova.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Okay.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Last time we spoke it was four weeks. What are we at now? :P
<Unit193> That should rebuild it against the new xfconf in -proposed.
<Unit193> delta is unimportant with my NMU, and fixes an additional build error in Ubuntu at that.
<tsimonq2> Sure.
<tsimonq2> Buuuuuuut...
<tsimonq2> How many weeks left? :P
<Unit193> I think you know how to use a calendar.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Juy 2nd or July 16th?
<tsimonq2> s/Juy/July/
<Unit193> ...Well crap, that may not work as well as I'd hoped actually.  Anyway, usually the first of those is an earlier meeting, which would be at the wrong time for me.
<tsimonq2> So then what were you thinking for that?
<tsimonq2> (In case you aren't subscribed to cosmic-changes, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktopnova/0.8.1-1.1 )
<Unit193> Thanks.
<tsimonq2> No problem.
<Unit193> Crappy thing about that timing, the 16th specifically may not work either.  Yey.
<tsimonq2> Darn.
<tsimonq2> I've presented the idea before, but what about scheduling a meeting with the DMB for a different time?
<Unit193> The latter time *usually* works, but that day may be out.
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<Unit193> tsimonq2: I have no rights to -volumed somehow.  dch -R No-change rebuild against libxfconf-0-3.  please?
<tsimonq2> Unit193: ACK.
<Unit193> xfce4-sntray-plugin, vala-panel-appmenu I also have no permission (think the latter has been removed from Debian?)
<tsimonq2> Wait, so, what's the full source package name for -volumed
<tsimonq2> ?
<tsimonq2> Unit193: I can no-change rebuild all three at the same time
<Unit193> xfce4-volumed
<tsimonq2> OK.
<tsimonq2> Unit193: FTR, I'll end up doing this after some sleep; my computer seems to be having some cooling problems.
<Unit193> I'll carry on with the rest then. :P
<Unit193> sil2100: Howdy!  Not sure if you got my ping, but the Debian version of the sponsorship miner is now live at https://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<sil2100> Unit193: excellent! Thanks!
 * sil2100 bookmarks it
<rbasak> Unit193: thanks!
<Unit193> I mean, I only assisted.  But 'welcome.
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Those rebuilds?  Also, https://sigma.unit193.net/source/gtkhash_1.1.1-2ubuntu1.dsc
<Unit193> ...Also if you want to do a few more, workrave, xfce4-equake-plugin, xfce4-linelight-plugin, xfce4-messenger-plugin, xfce4-radio-plugin, xfce4-wmdock-plugin, xfswitch-plugin need this one: -R No change rebuild against xfce4-panel 4.13.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-06-27
<Rhonda> Subject: Please add Unit193 to the ACL
<Rhonda> Oo â¦ nevar!
<Unit193> Wow, you're fast!
<Rhonda> I just got the mail. :)
<Rhonda> â¦ which doesn't imply that I've done it already.
<Unit193> I just sent it about 30 seconds before the ping.  Sure, but that's one quick rejection! ;)
<Rhonda> You have vip status on my board. ;)
<Unit193> Wow, thanks.
<Rhonda> (nah, I just was in my mailbox and you popped by, and given that you have kinda of a unique name, that helped :))
<Unit193> I meant for the 5 minute turnaround time, though as I remember I should poke you about irssi too. :>
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Got everything managed.
<Unit193> (Rebuilds done, gtkhash sponsored.)
#ubuntu-motu 2018-07-01
<tsimonq2> whoops
#ubuntu-motu 2019-06-24
<himanshu1603> Hi, I am working on to create PPA for an open source python project Osdag. Using python setup tools I was able to create  .deb file successfully. The folder structure is like:-debian-osdag-dependencies-install-osdag.sh-setup.pyThe bash script is supposed to install python dependencies from dependencies folder using the command 'conda install' and c
<himanshu1603> reating workspace folder etc. osdag folder contains the source code, I want the bash script to run during the installation process and install packages. I also want the dependencies folder to be included with the package.How can I accomplish this? This is the first time I'm creating PPA, gone through the documentation but couldn't found any solutio
<himanshu1603> n. Please help!
#ubuntu-motu 2019-06-27
<Unit193> fossfreedom: Err. did I ever poke you about the nautilus-dropbox_2019.02.14 test package I had to see if it truely does work on Budgie?
<fossfreedom> Unit193, think I remember a ping about dropping the budgie patch - yeah - all works on budgie after that patch was dropped
<Unit193> Knew I had pinged before, didn't think it was after I packaged the new version.
