#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-06
<czajkowski> aloha
<dutchie> ooh, it boots on the older kernel
<MooDoo> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<Craig_Dem> Good Morning
<Craig_Dem> And for the sixth day in a row, no school!
<MooDoo> the one school in our village that's stayed open, the head has now got to write a letter to parents to explain why he's stayed open due to 3 parents complaining lol
<Craig_Dem> Ouch
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> czajkowski, morning
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ello hows things
 * daubers ponders tea
<czajkowski> tea never needs to be pondered only consumed
<daubers> czajkowski: How's tricks?
<czajkowski> good thanks at a conference
<daubers> shiny
<MooDoo> czajkowski, yeah i'm fine.....:)  hows the conference going?
<czajkowski> aye rather busy too
<czajkowski> more than 50 talks over the next few days
<czajkowski> and over 200 people
<MooDoo> wow lots of talk there
 * daubers ponders getting some IAMs
<MooDoo> daubers, IAMs as in the pet food stuff?
<daubers> MooDoo: Individual Applience Moniter whatsits
<MooDoo> daubers, i knew that ;) well done you passed my test :D
<daubers> MooDoo: :p
<daubers> I just want to see when the electric heaters pop on and off individually. Quite hard to do that from a single data display
<czajkowski> daubers: they kinda work
<daubers> kinda?
<czajkowski> but depends on the area you need to use them and how often
<czajkowski> n
<czajkowski> nm got them confused with tens
<daubers> czajkowski: Ahhhh :) Was very confused then.....
<daubers> Anyone know when the new menu thing is landing in Natty?
<MooDoo> daubers, new menu thing?
<MooDoo> you mean unity?
<daubers> MooDoo: The ubuntu menu for unity, the bit that shows all the appications properly rather than opening a nautilus window :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: reddit.com/r/iama ? :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer 's car is now in a ditch :-(
<AlanBell> yikes
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: eep everyone ok?
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: ...... explain?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - it was a slow motion skid
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloody Ocado van stopped halfway down a hill with no traffic or houses on it. road was like oiled glass.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did well to miss it frankly.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Then he drove off!
<czajkowski> :s
<TheOpenSourcerer> Stroppy mail to Ocado will be winging it's way shortly.
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Get the reg?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope, but know the time/location.
<AlanBell> need hauling out?
<AlanBell> or is it broken as well as in a ditch?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: glad everyone is ok, much damage ?
<MartijnVdS> ,adhd
<MartijnVdS> oops, wrong channel :)
<wintellect> Mornin all
<MooDoo> wintellect, morn
<wintellect> hello MooDoo
<Flashtek> o/
<MartijnVdS> "moo doo" = cow feces?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Play nice
 * MartijnVdS will :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, thanks for that :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: well, "moo juice" is milk.. so I thought..
 * MartijnVdS will stop thinking, sorry :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS, silly boy : D lol
<Flashtek> lol
<Flashtek> there is logic there..
<MooDoo> if you really must know, VooDoo was already registered and someone, i can't remember who, went moooooooooooooooooooooo so there you go the change
<Flashtek> after all, what is doggie doo ?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Ah, cow zombies
<MooDoo> yes yes, it wasn't funny the first time, time give it a rest :p
<Flashtek> Thalmatergic Bovines
<screen-x> morning :)
<MooDoo> screen-x, morning
<daubers> Morning screen-x
<MartijnVdS> \o
<screen-x> so how are we all, this fine December Monday?
<MooDoo> screen-x, it's cold on them there hills
<czajkowski> fantastic keynote by simon phipps
<screen-x> which event czajkowski?
<czajkowski> postgres
<MartijnVdS> there's a postgres event?
<czajkowski> follow #pgdayeu on twitter to see what folks are saying
<screen-x> thanks
<czajkowski> 2010.pgday.eu
<Flashtek> jack frost has been to visit Plymouth ppl..
<popey> czajkowski: give the enterprisedb people a poke in the eye for me
<popey> czajkowski: they cluelessly send out spam with "Dear <name>" in, or a name, but not my name in.
<MooDoo> popey, if we had to poke all the companies in the world that are lazy and don't check their emails, we would, and me especially, have sore fingers :D
<popey> sure, but she's standing near them
<MooDoo> czajkowski, double poke time then
<Flashtek> heya popey
<popey> lo
<Flashtek> how is ?
<MooDoo> Flashtek, the weather?
<MooDoo> ;)
<Flashtek> yeah
<Flashtek> how is the weather
<Flashtek> like I can't find that out..
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/ snow melting
<MooDoo> Flashtek, well how is? doesn't really make sense does it :p
<Flashtek> how is popey ?
<kazade> morning all
<MooDoo> kazade, good morning
<Flashtek> wheeee.... http://portal.wattsure.com/all/gendash/136
<kevinw> can anyone shed light on the error: EXPIRED: Instance expired after not being reported for 600000 - im trying to setup a cloud and every instances terminates with this error
<AlanBell> amazon cloud?
<kevinw> ubuntu
<nperry> Morning o/
<webpigeon_web> morning
<kevinw> i have installed it on two machines using the 10.04 cd, one node is the cloud controller etc, and the other is a node controller, all running public IP's
<czajkowski> kevinw: #ubuntu-cloud might be more helpful
<kevinw> ive tried in there but not had any responces
<kevinw> i thought id give here a try on the off chance
<czajkowski> kevinw: be patient it'
<czajkowski> it'
<czajkowski> it's irc
<czajkowski> and rather early
 * jpds considers 6am to be early.
<kevinw> fair comment
<MooDoo> jpds, that's my normal get up time.....
<jpds> MooDoo: Likewise.
<MooDoo> jpds, mines not by choice with a 2 year old :D
<czajkowski> popey: enterprise db person is an organiser shall poke them after the party tonight
<Flashtek> popey: ever seen a cat jump while looking down ?
<MooDoo> Flashtek, what a bizarre question for monday, or maybe i've not had enough coffee yet :D
<popey> Flashtek: que?
<webpigeon_web> does
<danfish> morning all
<webpigeon_web> does the cat command count?
<webpigeon_web> hey danfish?
<webpigeon_web> damn phone irc client.
 * MooDoo wants to go watch a cat jump while looking down to see what happens
<MooDoo> danfish, morning
<webpigeon_web> moodoo I have 8 of them and i can't remember any of the doing it
<MooDoo> lol
<webpigeon_web> although can't say i was paying that much attention: p
<czajkowski> dear weather app work and stop confusing me
<popey> czajkowski: iphone weather app?
<danfish> czajkowski: just look out of the window :)
<czajkowski> popey: nope laptop, lucid. it's ticked to show weather but not actually doing so
<jpds> czajkowski: Have you set a 'home' city?
<czajkowski> yup
<hoover> hi folks
<czajkowski> http://twitpic.com/3dfn0k
<jpds> czajkowski: So if you click on it, and go to "Locations:", there's a city with a little house?
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to install IE on Ubuntu 10.10 ?
<kaushal> I need IE due to browser restrictions
<czajkowski> yup
<kaushal> I have HP servers where in the IPMI supports only IE
<czajkowski> jpds: yup
<jpds> czajkowski: Hmm.
<popey> kaushal: http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page
<czajkowski> jpds: shall reboot a few times]
<czajkowski> usually knocks some sense into it
<czajkowski> :s
<popey> o_O
<czajkowski> wont be running lucid for much longer on this one
<czajkowski> popey: see phips reply to you
<jpds> czajkowski: Three times.
<czajkowski> twice seems to do it, same way lately when i'm connected to wifi it actually displays me not connected when i am
<czajkowski> :s
<popey> czajkowski: i have
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love it - Andrew Marr apparently repeated Jim Naughtie's faux pas in Start The Week just an hour or so later... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11925556
<popey> he did
 * popey has the mp3 :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's hear: http://tindeck.com/listen/qlev
<AlanBell> oh dear
<kaushal> popey: Thanks
<kaushal> czajkowski: Thanks
<czajkowski> kaushal: oh i wasnt saying yes to you, sorry
<czajkowski> jpds: yup 2 reboots fixes it
<selinuxium> Morning all!  o/
<czajkowski> selinuxium: seeing you here more often these days
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Trying to get my attendance back up. :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer is glad selinuxium wasn't around when I made the Essex joke ;-)
<selinuxium> Sadly, can't make the Xmas party... :(
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, I probably have much worse ones under my belt.. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> selinuxium: tis ok, neither can i
<czajkowski> we shall have new year event drinks!
<selinuxium> Hell Yeah!
<czajkowski> danfish: is gonna organise a rugby /pub session
<czajkowski> so we go to a pub watch rugby and catch up
<MooDoo> czajkowski, that sounds awesome
<czajkowski> MooDoo: doesn't it :D
<czajkowski> London Irish have a ton of games on in the new year
<czajkowski> we just need to find a weekend, pick a pub and meet
<MooDoo> czajkowski, well seeing as i'm a harlequins fan i'll have to make a visit to the stoop :D
<danfish> czajkowski: oh yeah - I remember now. I'll look into that this week - d'ya think before or after Chrimbo?
<czajkowski> after so i can join :D
<danfish> when are England playing Ireland?
<czajkowski> not sure i want to be around folks during that game, my language will not be CoC friendly
<MooDoo> you think i want to be in the vacinity of czajkowski  when england play ireland?  if england loose i owe her a pint
<czajkowski> march 19th
<danfish> (no access to web browser at the mo)
<czajkowski> it's being played in ireland so going to a pub in uk could be fun
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i think we need to organize an ubuntu-uk/rugby fans meet up then :)
<danfish> it would be awesome :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: that's what we're doing
<czajkowski> ok so march 19th
<MooDoo> czajkowski, and i could never believe anything but roses could come out of your mouth ;)
<czajkowski> load of notice to find a pub suitable and enough notice
<danfish> may I suggest somewhere near Clapham for ease of train access?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ahh bless tis clear we've never met
<czajkowski> danfish: sounds good
<czajkowski> whooo funky event :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski, clearly, and i'm not sure i'm brave enough to come down, even though i probably tower above you ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: bah shurup and come join the fun
<MooDoo> czajkowski, i'm there :D
<czajkowski> hmm so anyone know any decent pubs in clapham ?
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: ello my dear
<davmor2> czajkowski: your being all pleasant did you miss me ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: hardly, but we're organising a meet up regarding beer/rugby and ubuntu so in good form
<davmor2> czajkowski: nice
<MooDoo> davmor2, it's going to be nice to see czajkowski when england beat her beloved ireland :p
<MooDoo> davmor2, either that or buy her a pint when england get stuffed :D
<selinuxium> czajkowski, I think MooDoo is in for a RUDE awakening... :)
<MooDoo> selinuxium, i'm a big boy i can take care of my self, besides i'll just bring a box and gum shield
<danfish> czajkowski: there's loads to chose from - depends on how rowdy you like em :)
<MooDoo> danfish, nice and chilled i reckon
<czajkowski> MooDoo: in the last 7 games ye've won once that's going back to march 04
<MooDoo> czajkowski, stats schmats....:p
<davmor2> MooDoo: you need to buy her extra sticky toffee if Ireland win so it gum czajkowski gob shut, you'll never hear the end of it else
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> danfish: makes no difference to me, once it has beer and we can get in and even book off an area in advance would be even better
<danfish> czajkowski: I'll bet you Â£10 on England to win (if you pay up front I'll make it Â£5 :P)
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> look as long as we have a good day with beers and banter it'll be fun
<danfish> agreed
<danfish> I'll check a few venues this week and report back
<czajkowski> sweet
<czajkowski> selinuxium: you in ?
<MooDoo> davmor2, lol i'll remember that
<MooDoo> and it's all gone quiet.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: everyone's having lunch :)
<Flashtek> i'm not
<danfish> or is thinking about lunch
<MartijnVdS> Flashtek: you just don't know it yet
<davmor2> MooDoo: everyone is scared that czajkowski might be nice to them too
<Flashtek> oh, I'm thinking about it..
<Flashtek> just don't think about a pink elephant
<MartijnVdS> Flashtek: just had some, on toast
<Flashtek> elephant ?
<MartijnVdS> pink elephant
<Flashtek> how do you have it ?
<Flashtek> rare ?
<MartijnVdS> as a pate
<Flashtek> ah, pink elephant pate.. nice..
<MartijnVdS> but yes, it's very rare :)
<Flashtek> lol
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Sorry, in on what? :)
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Allways up for beer and rugby! :)
<MooDoo> selinuxium, czajkowski is planning a beer sesh england/ireland rugby
<MooDoo> selinuxium, march 19th
<czajkowski> :)
<daubers> *sigh*
<daubers> I wish they'd drop this "superfast means fibre" attitude
<popey> http://www.serversplus.com/mailshots/microservercashback.html
<yasahiro> Hello.
<popey> mini server under 100 quid
<yasahiro> After 100 back, yeah.
<Nafallo> popey: 1U?
<MooDoo> Nafallo, look at the link, looks like a mini box
<m4r35n357> Anyone using rapidsvn on maverick? I don't get a menu bar so it's pretty useless here!
<Flashtek> hmm....
<Flashtek> knetworkmanager keeps dieing when I tell it to fire up my 3G link..
 * Flashtek installs rapidsvn to test for m4r35n357 
<m4r35n357> hi Flashtek, thx!
<Flashtek> I has menus
<m4r35n357> ok then I've got a problem ;)
<Flashtek> config file probably..
<m4r35n357> yeah I'll investigate . . . thanks for verifiying that it should work!
<Flashtek> np
<m4r35n357> oh crap, moved rapidsvn config file out of the way, and still no menu bar . . . same problem after purge & reinstall :(
<m4r35n357> must be some obscure clash . . .
<m4r35n357> oh well, have to use something else I suppose
 * Flashtek is having his cavity filled by two men with big bits..
<m4r35n357> most of the svn clients look like crap though
<selinuxium> MooDoo, czajkowski Most definitely up for that... Were abouts?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: clapham somewhere
<selinuxium> s/Were/Where
<czajkowski> good train access there
<selinuxium> coolio!
<czajkowski> march 19th
<selinuxium> czajkowski, you based here now then?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: yes... for the last month
<MooDoo> czajkowski, selinuxium i'll be travelling down from notts
<selinuxium> czajkowski, OK cool, you near Clapham then?
<dutchie> daubers: which disk should i buy? need a tb for backups/media storage, 3.5" sata
<czajkowski> selinuxium: aldershot
<selinuxium> O_o
<selinuxium> czajkowski, I have done gigs there!
<selinuxium> I see why we are looking at Clapham then!
<daubers> dutchie: Internal/External?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: handy for people to come there
<czajkowski> good train service
<MooDoo> :)
<dutchie> daubers: to go in an external enclosure
<Flashtek> hmm..
<Flashtek> anyone know where I can get an external display case to hold a 18.5" tft outside ?
<MartijnVdS> Flashtek: outside? as in outdoors?
<MartijnVdS> or outside as in "its outside dimensions"
<daubers> dutchie: Ah ok :) At the moment I'd use either Seagate or Hitachi.
 * MartijnVdS has several Samsungs
<MartijnVdS> Every Seagate disk I've owned has died within a year
<daubers> MartijnVdS: We don't tend to use samsung as they don't play nice with RAID controllers
<dutchie> what source would you recommend?
<daubers> dutchie: Ah, we get ours from distribution :) Wherever cheapest, if you can, get an ES or Enterprise grade drive. The samsung ES drives are quite nice
<Flashtek> outdoors
<daubers> s/samsung/seagate
<daubers> dutchie: The bog standard basic consumer ones are rubbish
<ali1234> is there really any difference?
<MartijnVdS> yes there is
<dutchie> there's a samsung spinpoint f3 on dabs for Â£42
<ali1234> i always figured "enterprise grade" was just shorthand for 500% markup
<daubers> ali1234: Definatley
<daubers> ali1234: ES drives are rated for quite harsh use 24/7, whereas consumer ones are rated for a lot less
<daubers> dutchie: What budget you got?
<ali1234> but the rating means nothing
<daubers> ali1234: In what way?
<dutchie> daubers: student budget :) rather not go over Â£60/70
<daubers> ali1234: I've tested 14 drive raid 6's with consumer grade drives and enterprise grade drives, enterprise grade tend to last longer and ahve better performance
<ali1234> daubers: well imagine if i buy a job lot of cookware, say, and then stick a label on it that says "rated for up to 400 degrees"
<ali1234> then resell it with a 500% markup
<daubers> ali1234: Also, we get about 1 in 128 DOA in enterprise grade and 1 in 32 for consumer
<ali1234> i am not being dishonest, yet i am still ripping people off :)
<ali1234> the only drives i have ever seen break are maxtor
<ali1234> and those ran in a moving vehicle for a year
<ali1234> it's kind of the flipside of the insurance scam, where all the suppliers on the chain massively over-quote because they know insurance will pay
<ali1234> so you end up with "so and so went to prison for causing Â£100000 worth of damage" and it turns out they broke 1 window or something
<daubers> dutchie: Hmmm... at that price you'll get a consumer grade one only. Need to spend ~Â£90 for enterprise grade. In your case I'd go with http://www.dabs.com/products/western-digital-1tb-caviar-black-3-5--sata6gb-s-7200rpm-64mb-6LXV.html?refs=52450000-12-4294951586-42730000-376770000 or possibly http://www.dabs.com/products/seagate-1tb-barracuda-sata-300-32mb-7200rpm-6L8D.html?refs=52450000-12-4294951586-42730000-376770000 that
<daubers> though the seagate AS drives are pretty pooey these days
<dutchie> daubers: thanks
<daubers> dutchie: The spinpoint one would be a safe-ish wildcard (I've not had any of those in to play with)
<daubers> dutchie: Though since you're putting it in a usb caddy, as long as you don't throw the caddy around, the caddy electronics will probably go before the drive
<dutchie> i'm not likely to throw it around, i can make no guarantees of my mother though :(
<dutchie> i'm sure her "tidying up" has accounted for most of my disk failures
<daubers> heh :) Bolt it to something and the spinpoint will probably do you. Though if you have some spare capacity somewhere else, always keep a second backup of anything exceptionally critical
<dutchie> righty-ho
<daubers> dutchie: (i.e. U1 or dropbox for uber critical stuffs second backup)
<dutchie> do that already :)
<daubers> heh :)
<daubers> Bah, stupid textviews
<daubers> all I want to do is get _all_ of the text.
<daubers> Ah ha!
<daubers> I win!
<gord> ack, i let my heating turn off! :(
 * popey defrosts gord 
<selinuxium> What is the new URL for the joggler stuff?
<mrxtian> Been using rapidsvn, then wanted to use svn now rapidsvn will not start (floatingpoint exception) so un-installed svn, Raid works again Where would I report this bug ?
<popey> selinuxium: http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
 * bigcalm waves
 * popey tickles
<bigcalm> Gah!
<bigcalm> popey: have you been taking hints from my GF?
<bigcalm> She is a mean tickler
<popey> not sure I want to know that :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Just if I stretch, she tries to tickle me. Quite off putting
<czajkowski> seems more like a challenge to me
<bigcalm> Heh
<selinuxium> popey, Cheers fella...
<popey> np
 * popey notes this was in the show notes for the podcast :)
<popey> (thats where I got it from)
<cps> afternoon :)
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I am unable to install IE on Ubuntu 10.10
<kaushal> is it a better option to go for Virtualbox OSE ?
<kaushal> and then try IE inside Guest OS
<screen-x> kaushal: I'd use virtualbox for that.
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> got it and understood
<kaushal> screen-x: thats ideal
<kaushal> OSE edition is good ?
<kaushal> anyways virtual OSE is better option
<kaushal> Thanks again
<screen-x> OSE is missing some usb goodies iirc, but is fine for testing internet explorer.
<daubers> Anyone know the python tarfile module inside out?
<daubers> I'm compressing a given file, but it's keeping the full path, I just want it to compress the file.
<ali1234> tar doesn't compress
<daubers> no, but tarfile lets you use gz compression
<ali1234> specify the arcname parameter
<ali1234> "If given, arcname specifies an alternative name for the file in the archive."
<daubers> bah, was hoping for an easier fix that that, never mind. Ta :)
<bigcalm> So the new Nexus S is out, but the video demonstraiting it shows nothing that my Nexus One doesn't do. I think the video was to show off some new shoes they had bought
<czajkowski> tonight is a free beer by enterprise DB whooo
<MooDoo> czajkowski, yay o/
<davmor2> MooDoo: why you excited that means hung over czajkowski tomorrow to deal with ;)
<nperry> Android 2.3 has some new additions to it
<MooDoo> davmor2, i'm off tues and wed so won't have to deal with anything ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Coward ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, nah i'm not scared of czajkowski
<MooDoo> davmor2, there is currently over 200 miles between us lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2, shhh i'm only little so i'll sneak in to that do she's planning in march, she'll not know i'm there
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah she will czajkowski has gitdar, it's like radar but ping on people who annoy her ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, 6'6 is little right?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Umm yeah!  that's tiny right?
<czajkowski> oi ye two behave
<bigcalm> I've agreed to provide off site backup for my parents. Can anybody suggest a good NAS? I would just use a USB HD, but they don't always reconnect correctly after a power outage
<MooDoo> davmor2, did you hear a noise?
<davmor2> MooDoo: yes but then the plasterer stop use his mixer so it was okay
<MooDoo> davmor2, phew, thought it was czajkowski bleating ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you know you're gonna get whaled at some point right :D
<MooDoo> davmor2, shhhh but i'm a sucker for punishment and looking forward to it :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you know those kinda thoughts are meant to stay in your head and not be broadcast on logged channels right ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2, er er er
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Why It Matters - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/06/why-it-matters/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Phil Bull] GNOME Developer Demos; Terminology; HIG 3.0 in Mallard; Cheesy sounds? - http://philbull.livejournal.com/57007.html
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> do I want a Nexus S :)
<davmor2> is it me or did everyone fall of the face of ubuntu-uk for the last hour or so?
<Azelphur> davmor2: rush hour?
 * AlanBell creeps up behind davmor2 and shouts BOO
<davmor2> AlanBell: heard you sneaking new vinyl flooring in new office, you'll have to try harder :D
<dutchie> /sbin/ldconfig.real: /usr/lib/libblas.so.3gf is not an ELF file - it has the wrong magic bytes at the start.
<dutchie> that doesn't look good :(
<shauno> what's .3gf?
<shauno> curious, as I have no files named such
<dutchie> it seems to be at the end of a chain of broken links
<shauno> have you taken a peek to see what is in it?
<DJones> dutchie: Don't know if this helps? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=581412
<dutchie> well, one of the other symptoms of this weirdness is that every browser i have tried segfaults
 * dutchie tries w3m
<DJones> Seems to relate to a python-numpy package
<dutchie> ...but that error came up while trying to install epiphany
<daubers> Evening
<Danawar2> Heyaa i have a program in c++ within a file called program how do i run it?
<daubers> Danawar2: Sorry?
<Danawar2> Sorry, I copied some hello world code into gedit and saved it called 'program' how do I run this so I get the output? I normally use VB and just click play.
<daubers> Danawar2: You'll need to compile it
<Danawar2> How can i go about doing that?
<Danawar2> I tried gcc program
<daubers> Danawar2: You'll need to use g++
<Danawar2> File format not recognized
<daubers> Danawar2: Can you pastebin the exact command you used?
<Danawar2> Sorry internet is playing up at the moment wont be long
<Danawar2> http://pastebin.com/NAv93qcd
<daubers> Danawar2: Ok, thats more standard c than c++, if you rename the file to have a .c extension it will compile with gcc
<daubers> It will produce an executable called a.out
<daubers> To run that you'll need to just type ./a.out
<stuphi> mv program program.c
<daubers> Danawar2: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/540412/ is a bit more C++ like
<daubers> c++ source files should have the extension .cpp
<Danawar2> Whats better to learn c or c++
<Danawar2> because we learn c# at uni
<daubers> Danawar2: Nothing wrong with c#, just need to use Mono to use it on Linux
<daubers> Danawar2: Also, there is no real !better . It depends on what you want to achieve
<daubers> !better
<lubotu3> Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
<daubers> Hmm.... not sure on the wording of that last bit. Someone must have got annoyed :)
<Danawar2> hehe well i'm doing security so i want to learn a bit of everything but i enjoy creating things so i was thinking of creating small 3D games to help learn programing,
<Danawar2> Why does it call the file a.out?
<daubers> Danawar2: Convention. You can tell it what to call it using the "-o" flag
<daubers> Danawar2: Type "man gcc" or "man g++" to get the manual
<zleap> where is the gthumb slideshow option in xubuntu 10.10
<stuphi> Danawar2: a.out stands for Assembler Output
<zleap> can't fimd it, its there in ubuntu 10.04
<Danawar2> ok cheers and the man page is llongg :D
<ali1234> Danawar2: get this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_%28book%29
<ali1234> man pages are useless for learning C
<daubers> ali1234: I thought everyone had to own a copy of that book by law
<ali1234> anyone who claims to be a programmer...
<daubers> heh, mines covered in sticky notes and pencilled in notes
<Danawar2> So far i see very little difference between c# and c :P
<gord> finally got around to putting the natty unity on my netbook, works really well :)
<nperry> I like unity
<ali1234> seriously?
<nperry> Even on the desktop
<ali1234> you must have extremely low expectations
<gord> natty unity on the desktop is very nice right now
<ali1234> i tried it yesterday, it is extremely buggy
<ali1234> unless they rewrote half the code since then or something
<nperry> you just don't know how to make it work ;)
<gord> we re-wrote all the visuals ali1234
<gord> its now in C++ instead of vala and using compiz instead of mutter
<ali1234> since alpha 1?
<ali1234> did you fix the broken dock bar thing?
<gord> alpha one was like last thurday o_O
<gord> geez, of course its buggy
<gord> its alpha
<nperry> its aplha, its going to be buggy
<ali1234> so it's buggy *and* it works really well? aren't those mutually exclusive?
<nperry> But at the moment all seems to be pretty stable
<gord> alpha basically means " you are lucky if we don't destroy your entire computer"
<nperry> with no show stopping bugs
<gord> it works well for me ali1234, but thats how the world works, it doesn't seem to work well for you, that would be a bug
<gord> can't figure out how to delete/move things to my sd card even though i have obviously done this before
<gord> wrong channel sorry :x
<ali1234> how do i report bugs on unity btw?
<nperry> ubuntu-bug unity
<gord> talking about my wii if anyone knows how to do that
<nperry> gord: I've done it but can't remember how now
<popey> ahem... http://twitter.com/#!/uupc/status/11889455057080320
<ali1234> "ubuntu-bug unity" doesn't work on alpha 1 live image...
<ali1234> oh wait, it didn't store my wireless key
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<AlanBell> evening all
<czajkowski> AlanBell: howdy
 * AlanBell listens to other Laura
<czajkowski> oh where
<AlanBell> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/
<AlanBell> and over to popey now
<czajkowski> m3u ?
<czajkowski> xspf?
<AlanBell> m3u
<MartijnVdS> mplayer $url works
<Azelphur> gmail seems to be dropping the ball on spam recently :(
<Azelphur> I've had 3 get through this week
<danfish> !bug 649345
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 649345 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "package linux-image-2.6.32-22-generic onwards fail to install/upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/649345
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to use ubuntu-bug to wait for xorg to crash and grab the backtrace
<Azelphur> gonna highlight popey since he probably knows :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Get Started Hacking On Unity Bitesize Bugs - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/06/get-started-hacking-on-unity-bitesize-bugs/
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-07
<exobuzz> 2:20am morning to all
<Azelphur> morning :p
<exobuzz> <dangerous political content not suited for channel>the recent media hype over the danger of the leak with vital places for security is interesting. the way it has been mentioned that it could help terrorists. a terrorist would never guess an oil/gas pipeline is important .. nor would they think to use a search engine which would give more information than the leak itself... </this isnt real xml. so i dont care>
<exobuzz> sorry.. i just felt like unloading that.. .. im finished now
<exobuzz> buffer mpty
<exobuzz> ^e somewhere.
<exobuzz> i probably broke some terms of service, but then i did plan to stick ubuntu in the above rhetoric  somwhere, and then forgot
<exobuzz> in other news.. ubuntu users are happy and ubuntu is working (excluding netbook users who tried to use unity) :)
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Good Morning Everyone
<kaushal> How do i know my underlying hardware is 32 or 64 Bit ?
<kaushal> is it known via dmidecode ?
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> kaushal: it is in /proc/cpuinfo
<AlanBell> have a look at the flags, if they contain LM then you should be 64 bit capable
<kaushal> AlanBell: Thanks
<kaushal> much appreciated
<nperry> morning  o/
<selinuxium> morning o./
<selinuxium> o/
<selinuxium> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1-Q_8EbB8A
<Flashtek> kaushal: grep lm /proc/cpuinfo
<screen-x> morning :)
<BigRedS> Goooood Morning!
<screen-x> \o BigRedS
 * screen-x is a temporary member of the work-at-home club
 * BigRedS waves a mildly frosty hand
<BigRedS> Ah, I did that last week. It was wonderful!
<screen-x> That depends on how well NX holds up for me..
 * screen-x experiments: does killing gdm, kill an nx session..?
<hoover> good mornin
<screen-x> mornin hoover :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<daubers> Morning
<screen-x> ipmi is awesome :)
<screen-x> and hi daubers
<daubers> screen-x: heh, literally just using IPMI to fix someones box
<hoover> hello screen-x
<nperry> curl http://ryanak.ca/files/holiday-motd
<popey> morning all
<hoover> mornin popey
<nperry> morning mr popey
<AlanBell> what is impi?
<daubers> AlanBell: Pure win!
<nperry> imperial pie :/
<AlanBell> http://www.canonical.com/news/impilinux
<screen-x> AlanBell: inteligent platform management interface
<daubers> AlanBell: IPMI
<BigRedS> AlanBell: not that
 * BigRedS is late to the party, clearly
<screen-x> AlanBell: its a spec for secondary CPUs that can be used for out of band management.
<dwatkins> I thought AlanBell meant IPMI at first, then re-read the original line...
<dwatkins> IPMI is really useful for accessing systems on their serial port, remote rebooting etc.
 * AlanBell misread it
<daubers> dwatkins: Or for using as a remote kvm :)
<AlanBell> so basically a built in remote kvm
<dwatkins> Not all IPMI interfaces will do forwarding of the graphical output of the display, but yes, that is very handy too.
<screen-x> with power control
<screen-x> and remote virtual media
<dwatkins> The Intel ones tend to just allow serial with ipmitool, whereas the SuperMicro ones have a web-interface with a java console applet, and you can even mount an ISO as if it were a CD or USB device you'd attached
<dwatkins> I don't know about other manufacturers, though.
<AlanBell> I remember having a serial port one on an HP box a long time ago, was quite cool, but not very practical, if you were standing within serial port distance then you could do whatever you needed anyway
<dwatkins> I used to support SGI systems which use those two in their clusters.
<dwatkins> AlanBell: we also used to sometimes have a laptop or other PC with a serial connection to the server, so you could ssh to the laptop and do stuff via serial on the bigger machine
<AlanBell> dwatkins: this was back when laptops were *very* expensive!
<directhex> there are a lot of terrible ipmi implementations though
<directhex> the chip on sunfire x2200 m2's is awful
<dwatkins> AlanBell: ah right, those were probably the days you could buy a 'L3 controller' - a separate PC to control your cluster/mainframe from
<dwatkins> I suspect I should be glad I never encountered it, directhex
<directhex> dwatkins: ipmi chip stops listening to any commands until power cycled about 1 time in 4 when issuing power commands to the chassis
<directhex> as in "ipmi chip is power cycled"
<directhex> as in "unplug server, wait, plug in server"
<dwatkins> directhex: upgrade its firmware
<dwatkins> directhex: I saw a lot of that sort of problem with these systems, often it was a bug in the BMC firmware; check the version with ipmitool, chances are there's a newer release
<bigcalm> Hidyho!
<hoover> hey biggie
<bigcalm> Sup, hoovie?
<hoover> not much mate, yourself?
<hoover> Machines, servers and PC's seem to break at the touch of my fingers at the moment
<hoover> sometimes even a remote ssh login seems enough ;-)
<Flashtek> hoover: don't touch then
<hoover> easier sad then done when you're an IT engineer ;-)
<Flashtek> take a day off
<Flashtek> hide in the loo
<hoover> a day probably won't suffice... I'm feeling more like in the three-months rage
<hoover> range even
<hoover> just the right time for the annual performance review today 8(
<Flashtek> need someone with a fixing aura to visit ?
 * BigRedS imagines a three-month rage
<BigRedS> not pretty
<Flashtek> lol
<hoover> certainly not... I cannot even type anymore it seems
<screen-x> hoover: you'll be ok, just don't leave r00t terminals lying around..
<dwatkins> I like that Fife Council have a list of currently open schools, as opposed to ones which are closed - it's probably shorter.
<hoover> hehe
<hoover> Scotland snowed in ATM?
<dwatkins> hoover: it's more "iced-in" here in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/blog/ice.jpg.html is a picture of a metre-high pile of ice I had to dig out from in front of my car to be able to move it this morning, for example
<hoover> nice
<hoover> not quite as bad here in .de
<dwatkins> I imagine it's warmed-up a little now, it was -9 C this morning.
<hoover> although the north has been hit rather hard by snow
<AlanBell> http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/blog/P1000268.jpg.html
<bigcalm> I think that mainland europe know how to deal with seasonal weather
<bigcalm> That's the difference, we only know about rain
<bigcalm> AlanBell: mega cute
<dwatkins> AlanBell: http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog/2010/06/27/best-penguin-ever/
<AlanBell> http://rowla.dyndns.org/gallery/v/blog/IMG_3049.html oh my
<bigcalm> Oh gawd
<bigcalm> WHo is that?
<dwatkins> AlanBell: yeah, a friend of mine whose nickname is "Beerman"
<bigcalm> Damn, I wanted to point and laugh
<dwatkins> It's not me, no.
<Flashtek> thats cool..
<nperry> Really wish the Nexus S was a dual core cpu :(
<bigcalm> Same cpu as the One but more ram. Quite a dissapointment
<nperry> Not really an upgrade in my mind.
<popey> dunno, that ram comes in handy for 2.2
 * MartijnVdS waits for 2.3 on the Nexus One to decide if he wants the Nexus S
<bigcalm> The tracker ball on the N1 is very handy for presicision text editing, why don't more phones have one?
<screen-x> because they get knackered in pockets
<bigcalm> I can see that happening without a cover. I keep mine in the neoprean pouch
<screen-x> sensible
<bigcalm> Wish it came with the Wildfire that I gave to my GF
 * popey does precision editing with his finger
<bigcalm> Some of us have banana fingers
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: not mine..
<popey> http://twitpic.com/photos/popey  does that work for any of you?
<MartijnVdS> Waiting for twitpic.com....
<bigcalm> I see popey
<Flashtek> waiting for twitpic.com
<screen-x> popey: nope
<MartijnVdS> ah it works now
<bigcalm> popey: wfm
<MartijnVdS> "Photos from popey" + your face
<bigcalm> Just slow to respond
<bigcalm> Which I blame VirginMedia
<screen-x> "There was an error loading this page, please try again."
<Flashtek> yup, wfm now
<MartijnVdS> so.. why aren't you all out storming the place where Assange is being held? ;)
<popey> yeah, I'm getting all kinds of errors
<Flashtek> popey: refresh
<popey> MartijnVdS: we're british
<popey> we don't storm
<Flashtek> http://www.flickr.com/photos/flashtek-uk/
<popey> Flashtek: I know how to operate a browser, thanks :)
<Flashtek> popey: ;-)
<nigelb> popey: so, what do you do instead of storm? ;)
<AlanBell> we tut dissapprovingly
<popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/flashtek-uk/5240316743/ awwwwwww
<MartijnVdS> drink some more tea
<popey> nigelb: we tut
<AlanBell> whilst drinking tea
<nigelb> lol
<popey> also.. paddington hard stares
<bigcalm> Awwwww
<AlanBell> PBHS!
<Flashtek> you like that ?
<popey> I like cats :)
<bigcalm> <3 cats
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<Flashtek> bigcalm: there are more photos
 * nigelb sneezes.
<bigcalm> \o/
 * davmor2 I like big cats
<nigelb> Too many cat lovers here :p
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Also, rape is a serious crime, so he should stand trial (even if he is innocent, in which case he has nothing to hide really does he?)
<bigcalm> daubers: I think the rape charge was dropped
<bigcalm> Sex without a condom
<AlanBell> this is somewhat offtopic
<bigcalm> Just a little
<MartijnVdS> yes, it is. sorry about that.
<bigcalm> Back to cats!
<AlanBell> !politics though
<Flashtek> what, where did that come from ?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: !wikileaks? )
<AlanBell> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<Flashtek> !cats
<AlanBell> yeah, there is #wikileaks
<davmor2> bigcalm: popey: http://picasaweb.google.com/davmor2/TigerTrip2010#5479982494408818594
<bigcalm> cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp
<bigcalm> Catting is fun
<Flashtek> big kitty
<bigcalm> Mew
<Flashtek> that's such a fake.. it's ben photoshopped you can tell.. the shadows are all wrong..
<Flashtek> ;-)
<popey> :)
<screen-x> hmm he doesn't looked best pleased
<Flashtek> far from gruntled
<Flashtek> screen-x: probably find someone took his fristies away
<Flashtek> *frosties
<screen-x> nooo! must have have cereals
<popey> bah
<popey> i am about to eat my lunch
<screen-x> popey: you can make it till 12
 * popey just has chocolate
<czajkowski> popey: no marmite...
<MartijnVdS> popey: just tell people you're on CET
<MartijnVdS> it's almost lunch time here :)
<davmor2> http://picasaweb.google.com/davmor2/TigerTrip2010#5479985077104213714 this is my favourite though he's a gentle giant unless he has some food.  He's upto 15 feet long really big kitty
<Flashtek> I'll bet
<czajkowski> evil cats
<davmor2> czajkowski: take it back, take it back now!
 * Flashtek glares at czajkowski 
<screen-x> czajkowski: allergies?
<popey> heheh
<popey> czajkowski doesn't like kitties
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | KittenLove!
<Flashtek> lol
<czajkowski> bold popey
<czajkowski> screen-x: i don'
<davmor2> hahahahahahahaaha
<czajkowski> screen-x: i don't like them, but always seem to come to me. most weird
<bigcalm> :D
<screen-x> czajkowski: they know
<bigcalm> They want you to love them
<czajkowski> ok the accent on the guy talking now in the session is rather shrill. new york accent.
<czajkowski> bigcalm: no. never
<bigcalm> No ney never no more
<bigcalm> Will I play the wild rover, no never, no more
<davmor2> screen-x: No czajkowski is just pure unadulterated evilness, anything the masses like she hate, except for chocolate and crisps and beer
<screen-x> I'm not sure thats fair davmor2
<BigRedS> There's not a lot else that the masses as a whole like, really
<czajkowski> davmor2: you forgot rugby.
 * AlanBell hates hate itself
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah but you support the team :P
<screen-x> ooh meta hate
 * BigRedS enters an endless loop 
 * AlanBell disappears in a puff of recursion
<davmor2> naff team even
<screen-x> AlanBell: at the risk of being philosophical, is there nothing evil enough to be worthy of hate?
<Flashtek> Microsoft ?
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> MS haters gonna hate
<nperry> More snow :(
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> Bright and frosty here
<bigcalm> I should take some photos
<Flashtek> where is bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Near Telford
<Flashtek> yay
<Flashtek> I was up near there recently..
<Flashtek> Oswestry
<bigcalm> Aye
<Flashtek> I was also in Telford for another meting a few months back
<bigcalm> GF and I were there last night, visiting GF's brother who is in hospital there atm
<Flashtek> and I will be in Oswestry again next month
<nperry> Most pathetic snow though, very slightly
<nperry> bigcalm: I can't see 4ft infront of me, stupid fog :(
<sprite> sit closer to the screen
<Flashtek> turn on the windscreeen heater..
<bigcalm> Fog was here over the weekend and yesterday. Really clear today
<screen-x> whats tcp/555 dsf?
<Flashtek> freeciv		5556/tcp	rptp		# Freeciv gameplay
<Flashtek> freeciv		5556/udp
<Flashtek> rplay		5555/udp			# RPlay audio service
<Flashtek> screen-x: thats all i have..
<popey> screen-x: printing
<Flashtek> popey: on 555 ?
<popey> yes
<screen-x> ah ok, thanks.
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski for not taking part in the kittylove
 * Flashtek strokes his wifes kitteh
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<bigcalm> :)
<Flashtek> what ?
<Flashtek> I said kitteh
<Flashtek> it's on topic
<AlanBell> it is
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | ChickenLove!
<Flashtek> thats fowl..
<screen-x> hahahha
<bigcalm> Bah!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | *Love!
<screen-x> astronomy?
<Flashtek> yay, generic love
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> Wild love?
<Flashtek> or asterisk
<nigelb> no no
<nigelb> that's wrong
<nigelb> it should be ^(.*)Love$
<czajkowski> this channel gets stranger and stranger
<nigelb> all inclusive love :p
<Flashtek> indeed
<screen-x> nigelb: who said it was a regex rather than a glob?
<nigelb> screen-x: regex makes it geekier :p
<bigcalm> Great big globs of love
<screen-x> though if its a glob, the ! will have strange effects
<bigcalm> czajkowski: isn't it lovely?
<nigelb> heh
<bigcalm> Anybody here recomend qnap for some simple nas? I need to provide off-site backup for my parents
 * popey hugs edge10
<popey> that was a recommendation for bigcalm btw :)
 * bigcalm googles
<diplo> popey, they don't have ethernet by the looks of things, so basically just a large storage device and that's it ?
<Flashtek> bigcalm: how much data ?
<bigcalm> 1tb will be more than enough for them
<Flashtek> get the same router I have, it has a USB slot on the back for storage arrays
<bigcalm> I'm thinking of a device with 2 bays so it can either be a raid or extended later
<diplo> I suppose I could connect one to my miniitx box
<Flashtek> bigcalm: usb hub..
<Flashtek> umm.. my kitten likes marmite
<bigcalm> I've had problems with USB drives not reconnecting correctly after a power outage, or just randomly dropping
<screen-x> bigcalm: what are you going to use as a backup agent on your parent's machines?
<bigcalm> Just downloaded the photos from my 350D and have actually shocked myself with the quality of some of the shots
<bigcalm> screen-x: rsync
<Flashtek> bigcalm: good or bad ?
<bigcalm> Flashtek: good
<Flashtek> bigcalm: might you want to use rolling backups ?
<bigcalm> Possibly
<Flashtek> as i've used rsiff-backup with great success before
<Flashtek> *rdiff-backup
<bigcalm> The main bulk of their data are photos
<dwatkins> rsniff...? ;-)
<bigcalm> Flashtek: that looks perfect. Thanks :)
 * screen-x uses rsnapshot
<Flashtek> bigcalm: n/p
 * hoover uses bacula
 * jpds uses rsync
<bigcalm> So, that's the backup method sorted. Still need to decide upon a physical device now
<bigcalm> This goes to show how much I've been able to take my camera out or bother to upload to flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/archives/date-posted/2010/12/07/
<screen-x> bigcalm: pretty frost
<bigcalm> Yep yep
<screen-x> bigcalm: do you have always on machines at home? or do you need a NAS so that you don't have to leave a machine on..?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I do have a machine on all the time. But I'd like for things to still work if that machine were to fail
<bigcalm> But I guess that might cost more than its worth
<popey> diplo: yes, they do
<screen-x> It does increase the cost significantly
<popey> diplo: depends which model you get
<bigcalm> Aha! I have a viglen doing bugger all atm
<Flashtek> i was thinking a service like dropbox might do the job..
<bigcalm> Could set that up in the office again and hook some storage up to it
<bigcalm> Flashtek: slow and limiting
<screen-x> bigcalm: swirlly pebbles make my head hurt
<bigcalm> screen-x: :D
<bigcalm> screen-x: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/203335702/in/set-72057594070877691/
<screen-x> bigcalm: should do that with a tripod :)
<bigcalm> screen-x: na, it's more fun to make yourself dizzy ;)
<bigcalm> It's more organic like this
<daubers> bah, why can't shotwell filter by filetype :(
<davmor2> daubers: file a bug so it can in the next release
<daubers> davmor2: If I have a chance later on I'll fix it
<popey> \o/ jabber
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<BigRedS> There's nothing pecular about dual booting windows 7 with Linux is there? As compared with, say, XP. I recall stories of weirdness when Vista came out..
<Flashtek> nope
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I have win7 and ubuntu on my laptop. No problems at all
<Flashtek> WFM
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: just install linux first iirc
<bigcalm> Otherway around
<dogmatic69> ha
 * bigcalm tuts :P
<dogmatic69> i know one makes your life hell :/
<bigcalm> Grub will see windows and add it to the boot loading screen
<Flashtek> as opposed to windows seeing grub and telling it to sod off
<TheOpenSourcerer> yum - oxtail soup.
<Flashtek> nice
<peter_> can someone tell me how to make wine recognise i have a disk in the drive?
<screen-x> wow! I just winged at transtec about a faulty server, they have dispatched replacement parts for everything in the machine, and organised for an engineer to come tomorrow. We don't even have a maintenance contract with them.
<Flashtek> sweet
<nperry> If my face is tiggling, do you think its time to turn the convector heater off? Which is pointing directly at my face
<screen-x> nperry: or point it away from your face?
<nperry> Then I'd be cold again, plus the big warehouse door is open.
<nperry> So i need it pointing to my face else I wont feel hot
<screen-x> point it at you from further away? or turn it down?
<screen-x> put a fine mesh between the fan and your face, to act as a diffuser..
<nperry> Its either on or off on this thing.
<dwatkins> nperry: how about putting on an extra layer of clothing?
<daubers> nperry: Or close the door?
<dwatkins> that's far to simple a solution, daubers ;-)
<dwatkins> *too
<daubers> dwatkins: Some kind of arduino based thermostat that opens the doors when it's too hot and turns on the heater and closes the door when too cold?
 * screen-x spies a security risk
<daubers> Ooooh... Tron soundtrack is out
<daubers> and only Â£5 on U1
 * daubers downloads
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I recommend Last.fm "mix radio" for hackathon music :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: similar artists akufen has been expanding my mind a little recently ;-)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: good, good :)
<MartijnVdS> minimal++
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: also try Plastikman
<screen-x> ok :)
 * daubers waits for U1 to download
<MartijnVdS> daubers: plastikman? akufen? :)
<screen-x> tron..
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Tron Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk :D
 * daubers notes it's not actually downloaded anything yet...
<blutack> Any python hackers in today?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: try restarting your ubuntu one  daemons
<AlanBell> !ask| blutack
<lubotu3> blutack: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
 * screen-x thinkgs that blugybe would be a great nick
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: why?
<screen-x> because gybe is the opposite of tack.
<blutack> Why is this happening? https://gist.github.com/731804
<blutack> bluduck
<MartijnVdS> Blut-Ack -- it's German
<blutack> Is it?
<screen-x> haha
<MartijnVdS> Blut, German for "blood"
<screen-x> blutack: what do you expect to happen?
<blutack> No output for values less than 0.1?
<blutack> Have I done something totally stupid?
<screen-x> int(d) ?
<daubers> blutack: Your testing a string against a float which may cause an issue
<daubers> screen-x: i'd hav gone for float(d) :) as they're <1
<screen-x> ah yes
<blutack> Ah-ha
<blutack> Forgot I switched to the csv reader, which doesn't cast
<blutack> Thanks guys!
<daubers> :(
<screen-x> sup daubers?
 * daubers prods U1 some more
<screen-x> ah
<daubers> woot, got one file
<blutack> Thanks daubers: http://imgur.com/jfO30
<screen-x> ooh wassat blutack?
<blutack> LBM Unsteady Flow simulation - orange thing is a cylinder in the middle
<daubers> blutack: pertty
<blutack> Needed to cap the velocities above 0.1  to get the colour scaling right!
 * screen-x appreciates that in chrom(e|ium) you can reload while viewing source. 
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: the new chromium in natty has a VERY nice trace/view source/etc. panel
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: which version? I'm on 9.x
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: 8
<MartijnVdS> 7 on maverick, 8 on natty
<mlkaaa> hello there
<mlkaaa> how to unistall plymouth ?
<mlkaaa> anyone there
<mlkaaa> ?
<screen-x> yep, but can't answer your q unless its apt-get remove plymouth-stuff
<mlkaaa> do you know the package ?
<mlkaaa> plymouth
<screen-x> !info plymouth
<lubotu3> plymouth (source: plymouth): graphical boot animation and logger - main package. In component main, is required. Version 0.8.2-2ubuntu5.1 (maverick), package size 110 kB, installed size 436 kB
<screen-x> looks about right, but won't take all its deps with it when removed.
<mlkaaa> voila as it doing dirty things on my server, how to unistall plymouth ?
<screen-x> plymouth gets installed on servers?
<Phineas> exobuzz, do you remember yesterdays issue we discussed?
<mlkaaa> no never by default i got that package
<Phineas> i have returned
<screen-x> mlkaaa: yeah, I meant its odd that the server images should include plymouth.
<exobuzz> Phineas, which issue. the mystery cassette ?
<Phineas> exobuzz,  yeah that one
<mlkaaa> how to unistall plymouth ?
<exobuzz> what was the issue again? :)
<Phineas> exobuzz,  i don't know what it is for
<screen-x> mlkaaa: http://staff.adams.edu/~cdmiller/posts/Ubuntu-Lucid-server-disable-plymouth/
<Phineas> exobuzz,  all i know is that it is space invaders
<mlkaaa> i don't want to disable, i just need to unistall
<mlkaaa> is that possible ?
<screen-x> mlkaaa: have you tried removing the packages?
<Phineas> exobuzz,  but what is it for?
<popey> Phineas: please stop trolling
<Phineas> popey,  seriosly i don't know what the tape is for
<popey> Phineas: seriously stop trolling
<Phineas> popey,  i just asking a question
<mlkaaa> how ? screen-x
<screen-x> mmmm time to do an online LV expand, will it be simple, or will it b0rk everything...?
<daubers> screen-x: They tend to be simple :)
<daubers> screen-x: Whats the FS on it? XFS?
<screen-x> ext3
<screen-x> sometimes causes issues with nfsd
<daubers> Can you online expand ext3?
<screen-x> yep
<daubers> Never knew that
<screen-x> but you cant do online shrink.
<screen-x> this box isnt running nfsd, so chances are good :)
 * screen-x taps fingers
<zertyi> hi all
<zertyi> i got a central server with one IP, and i got 5 domains, what i want is that the 5 domains name display 5 different web pages and getting information from my server
<zertyi> the server is running on ubuntu
<zertyi> what are package i have to install ?
<screen-x> zertyi: apache2 probably, read about apache virtual hosts.
<screen-x> zertyi: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/name-based.html
<zertyi> why virtual hosts ?
<screen-x> zertyi: because you want to point multiple domains at the same IP.
<zertyi> fabulous
<zertyi> so it is possible
<screen-x> yep, gets complicated if you want to use ssl.
<zertyi> no ssl
<zertyi> thanks a lot screen-x
<exobuzz> Phineas, the tape is for some old computer. unknown what. if you dont know what it is for, i wouldnt worry about it. just put it beack on th eshelf and forget about it :)
<exobuzz> -typos
<Phineas> exobuzz,  i just managed to load it on my old ibm :)
<exobuzz> Phineas_, what ibm model ?
<Phineas_> exobuzz,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer#PC
<exobuzz> well. not quite the answer i was after. i was after 4860 or 5150 etc. anyway. not hard of many of those with cassettes. most people who had the money for an ibm surely got the disk configured model :)
<exobuzz> heard
<Phineas_> exobuzz,  mine was seccond hand
<exobuzz> yeh, but i just meant the cassette configuration isn't common..
<exobuzz> at least according to interwebs.
<Phineas_> exobuzz, yeah
<Phineas_> ow!
<Phineas_> !ping
<lubotu3> poing
<Phineas_> i'm back online, i will never do that again
<screen-x> \o/ online resize finished successfully, with no known disasters resulting :)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: the newer image of your unr works on my microsd card reader btw :D, so it must have been a size problem :)
<exobuzz> nice
<exobuzz> yeh. it seems 4gb for flash stuff doesnt mean 4gb. but something a little under 4gb
<exobuzz> still some people have problems. one person seems to have a usb stick that is about 50mb less than 4gb.. :/
<Azelphur> haha :/
<exobuzz> i can just keep making the images smaller and smaller but i wonder if its old/damaged sticks with blocks marked bad ?
<exobuzz> so they get smaller over time.
<Azelphur> maybe
<exobuzz> Azelphur, since unity doesnt work, i might do an update with the old netbook interface on this perhaps. i heard on ubuntu-uk that someone (I think popey) had done this, and it seems like a good idea. or else i just should make it a desktop edition image perhaps
<popey> not i
<popey> mark
<exobuzz> aah k
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> ideally, id like to have every single joggler change, all managed from the ppa, with packages for all configs etc, and a single joggler meta package that i could update to include new packages. then i wouldnt need to make new images the whole time. but a lot of work to make all the debian packages
<exobuzz> there is a not sure i can be ar*ed  issue with this.
<popey> heh
<popey> would indeed be nice
<popey> what kinds of things need packaging?
<exobuzz> default config changes for gnome stuff, the upstart script for the eth mac address, X11 config, other misc /etc/ configs , modprobe stuff, the kernel of course, some udev bits, some initramfs changes
<exobuzz> etc
<exobuzz> a lot of this could be in a single "joggler" package, of course..
<popey> lots of little fiddly bits
<popey> or a new distro!
<popey> :)
<popey> jogglbuntu
<exobuzz> great idea.. when will you start on it? :-)
<popey> when I finish my current distro idea :)
<exobuzz> what are you working on ?
<popey> it is but an idea
<exobuzz> sure.. im interesting though to hear :)
<popey> clubuntu
<exobuzz> is that club - untu, or get a clu - buntu
<exobuzz> :)
<jacobw> ubuntu for cavemen?
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> either popey is typing a long description, or hes just going to leave us guessing! :D
<popey> :)
<popey> command line ubuntu
<exobuzz> aaah.
<popey> so no gui whatsoever
<popey> but lots of productive apps
<jacobw> ah, that'd be awesome
<exobuzz> for amiga ubuntu it would be clibuntu
<jacobw> but isn't that what nubuntu was supposed to be?
<popey> we did start on this about 3 years ago
<Hornet> http://firefoxlive.mozilla.org
<popey> never heard of nubuntu
<exobuzz> popey, how would it differ from a base debian. just nicer default configs ?
<popey> preinstalled stuff
<exobuzz> and meta stuff including a better default set of tools
<exobuzz> aah nice
<popey> yeah
<exobuzz> id be interested in something like that
<popey> maybe even stuff like libmobileblah to manage music to iphone type devices
<popey> pulse etc
<exobuzz> the one thing that has got my goat about ubuntu server edition, has been the lack of support for mdadm. in the next release it will be the first time for 2 years ubuntu ships with an up to date mdadm package.. they forked debians. then let it rot :
<exobuzz> :/
<popey> :(
<popey> thats sad
<popey> i love mdadm
<exobuzz> i was using my own build of mdadm for some time. i recently put it on a ppa https://launchpad.net/~jools/+archive/mdadm
<exobuzz> but finally mdadm had some love from ubuntu, so should be sorted for natty
<exobuzz> mdadm is great. software raid on linux is excellent these days. thanks to neil brown
<exobuzz> recent kernels + mdadm had support for moving between various raid levels, so reshaping 1 to 5 to 6 etc. but a mismatched kernel and mdadm as has been the case in ubuntu, meant none of this could be used
 * jpds hugs hardware RAID.
<exobuzz> heh
 * exobuzz likes the idea that hes not tied into a specific hardware raid vendor, and if his motherboard dies, he uses another one and raid still works
 * BigRedS likes the fact it's the same tools on each machine, irrespective of the hardware
<BigRedS> he says searching for a matching replacement hw raid card
<exobuzz> heh
 * exobuzz likes his home fileserver.. pic http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/File:Aerocool_server.jpg
<exobuzz> very pleased with how it turned out.. including being quite cheap to build.
<BigRedS> my home fileserver is a powermac G4
<BigRedS> it's not very big, but it is shiny
<exobuzz> hehe. shiny.. very important :)
<BigRedS> and turquoise. It's just the right colour for fileserving
<exobuzz> thats important too yeh
<exobuzz> of course, my fileserver is just full of linux isos.. suprising how much the collection has built up over the years
<BigRedS> Ah, I stopped keeping them when I realised I never really wanted old ones, and new ones are so quick to get
<exobuzz> :)
<BigRedS> and I rarely want particularly new ones, too. Generally I'll use a 50mb debian netinstall, or whatever the last ubuntu that came on a magazine was or something
<popey> exobuzz: i want to implement drobo like features in my own ubuntu system
<popey> reshaping from 1 to 5 to 6 _and_ back down again
<exobuzz> i dumped all my dvds to it, so that i can have them on xbmc with box artwork and meta data.. people have called that lazy, but why get up from the sofa unless you need to!
<popey> damn straight!
<exobuzz> popey, drobo seems clever. is it only done on block level? i did read about it at some point.. mixed sized disks etc
<popey> yeah
<popey> its incredibly slow though
<popey> looks like it uses reiserfs internally
<popey> I yanked a brand new disk back out of a drobo and fiddled with it for a bit
<exobuzz> what about a filesystem level raid. with a per file type parity thing. wonder if that would work
<popey> thats similar to what windows home server does/did
<exobuzz> reiserfs.. sounds like a killer filesystem.
<BigRedS> that concept rings a very vague bell
<popey> which they have withdrawn
<popey> exobuzz: http://joke.popey.com/
<BigRedS> ah, whs. that might be where the bell is
<exobuzz> popey, sorry :)
<exobuzz> heh
<jpds> exobuzz: Well, btrfs should do that.
<exobuzz> popey, you have a drobo then ?
<popey> yes exobuzz
<popey> jpds: btrfs lacks an fsck, which is kinda fundamental to me
<popey> zfs looks interesting
<exobuzz> jpds, eventually :-) .. ..
<jpds> All good things take time.
<exobuzz> btrfs seems to have sped up recently, but its very slow progress a lot of the time.
<exobuzz> i like the whole idea of it though.
<dutchie> popey: "an fsck"? you are missing all the fun of saying "fussck"
<exobuzz> there is a btrfsck now, but its odd. i mean its decided not to use any of the same parameters as any other fsck.. so a pita to put root on it. (i had to patch btrfsck to ignore -a for example)
<exobuzz> jools@travelmate /home/joggler/overlay $ btrfsck
<exobuzz> usage: btrfsck dev
<exobuzz> Btrfs Btrfs v0.19
<exobuzz> seems a bit "incomplete"
<exobuzz> and whether if it hits a problem in a btrfs, i have no idea if it can fix it..
<moreati> Anybody using Natty in VirtualBox, is 2.6.37-8-virtual booting okay for you? Mine won't find the root partition, but only the -virtual kernel does it.
<davmor2> moreati: I'm using it on my laptop seems fine let me double check for you
<moreati> davmor2: in virtualbox, with the -virtual kernel?
<davmor2> moreati: nope I'm just checking that it boots on real hw, to help rule out a faulty kernel, boot issue.  So this is just vm that is effected.
<davmor2> moreati: booting up fine here on HW.
<moreati> davmor2: ys, that's why I was specifically asking about -virtual the generic kernel is okay for me, I'm trying to tell whether I've done something wrong or there's a bug w VirtualBox/-virtual kernel
<moreati> thanks for checking
<Paul2> I have a laptop with a screen plugged in. I would like to be able to close the laptop lid and continue to use the external monitor
<dogmatic69> change the power settings
<Paul2> You would have thought this was a fairly common and easy thing to do, but system->preferences->power managerment doesnt have that option
<dogmatic69> normally a laptop goes to suspend
<Paul2> it's blank screen/suspend/hiubernet etc
<dogmatic69> ive done it on mine, what version
<Paul2> (it duel boots to windows and does it fine, so cant be hardware)
<dogmatic69> there is three options, default, power, battery
<Paul2> er yup all three are set to blank screen, but it balnks both screens :(
<Paul2> using 10.04
<Paul2> another problem: alt+keys in terminal switches terminal tabs, unticking these options in edit -> keyboard shortcuts... doesnt stop it doing that
<moreati> Paul2: I just checked Gnome Terminal in Ubuntu 10.10. In Edit -> Keyboard Shortcuts I was able to delete the shortcut keys for Switch to Tab 1..10 (so it read Disabled next to each) and the Alt + <n> doesn't switch tabs.
<moreati> Paul2 does your Dialog say 'Disabled' next to each 'Switch to Tab <n>'?
<Paul2> how do you make it say disabled?
<Paul2> new accelerator...
<moreati> Yes, and then I pressed backspace
<Paul2> ah was trying backspace
<moreati> It's not a good UI to be honest
<Paul2> ah thanks done
<moreati> The screen blanking i can't help with I'm afraid
<Paul2> mmm
<nperry> google chrome web store, how long before apple makes there version and locks it down :/
<Azelphur> does anyone know how to use ubuntu-bug to catch an X crash and the backtrace?
<Azelphur> popey: maybe? ^
<Paul2> http://www.wireshark.org/download.html#development_release no linux packages prebuilt for dev :(
<popey> Azelphur: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing
<Azelphur> except that page says nothing about ubuntu-bug :)
<popey> you presume that you need to use ubuntu-bug
<popey> (incorrectly)
<Azelphur> popey: bryce harrington said use ubuntu-bug :)
 * Azelphur tends to listen to him
<popey> he probably meant apport-collect
<popey> but hey ho, ignore me
<MartijnVdS> /ignore popey all
<MartijnVdS> OK :)
<Azelphur> (23:08:10) bryceh: Azelphur, file it with ubuntu-bug.  If possible, repro the issue, reboot, and then file
<Azelphur> popey: how do I do it with apport-collect?
<popey> Azelphur: I'd direct you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
<Azelphur> ty
<popey> (linked from the xorg page I mentioned before)
<Azelphur> popey: uhh, I don't think that's going to work. It's a GUI tool which will no doubt crash when X crashes :s
<popey> "its a gui tool", what is "it"?
<Azelphur> apport
<MartijnVdS> no, apport isn't a gui tool :)
<popey> *sigh*
<popey> no, it isnt
<MartijnVdS> it drops a file in some /var dir
<MartijnVdS> then on restart/re-login you can upload the crash dump
<popey> apport has lots of stuff in it
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> there's also lots of documentation on catching xorg failures on that page, whether bryce says "use ubuntu-bug" or not
<Azelphur> so long story short, sudo service apport start force_start=1, reproduce crash, check /var/crash/ for the report
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apport-the-gui-app does that by itself
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or ubuntu-bug can use the data in /var/crash to create a new lp bug
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: so after re-logging when X crashes it'll do it all itself?
<Azelphur> cool
<MartijnVdS> it'll prompt you about "found a crash dump"
<MartijnVdS> OR you can use ubuntu-bug --something-or-other
<Azelphur> fun :)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: do you happen to know of a way to turn the cursor off btw?
<Azelphur> that's always bugged me with the joggler, it's touch screen it doesn't need a cursor :p
<MartijnVdS> if it's X you can set it to some empty cursor font
<Azelphur> I tried that approach, didn't manage to get anywhere with it :-(
<MartijnVdS> look at how mousetweaks does it then :)
<MartijnVdS> it turns off the mouse cursor while typing in Ubuntu
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: ah, that stuff just puts the mouse into hidden mode and it gets reactivated on move
<Azelphur> much like unclutter does
<Azelphur> I have unclutter atm which turns it off as soon as it's moved, but I want it completely gone :p
<MartijnVdS> what happens if you make the time-before-hide 0? :)
<Azelphur> it flickers on for a second and then goes away
<MartijnVdS> great.. another postal strike here.
<daubers> GAHHH
<selinuxium> Evening!
<selinuxium> o/
<czajkowski> selinuxium: aloha
<selinuxium> czajkowski: How is Aldershot this eve?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: in stuttgart
<selinuxium> czajkowski: Of course... :/
<selinuxium> BigRedS: you on FB?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: having cider in the3 irish pub while chairing the emea membership board meeting
<selinuxium> czajkowski: All go... :)
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> back tomorrow night though
<selinuxium> czajkowski: I kept trying to get involved about 5 years ago when I had much more time...
<czajkowski> selinuxium: now you're just too busy for us
<czajkowski> I see
<selinuxium> czajkowski: Now you konw that is not true. :)
<selinuxium> czajkowski: Spent ages trying to get a mentor in MOTU...
<czajkowski> what happened?
<selinuxium> czajkowski: brick walled....
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> care to try again
<stgraber> hey everyone
<selinuxium> czajkowski: Possibly, may try to find another way to contribute... like the Ubuntu in Business event...
<czajkowski> stgraber: meet selinuxium he didnt get much help in trying to go down the route of motu can you help put him in contact with someone who WILL mentor him
<stgraber> czajkowski: sure
<stgraber> selinuxium: what kind of packages are you interested in ? also, are you interested in helping with merges/syncs, new packages or bugfixes ?
<exobuzz> Azelphur, maybe easy eay is invisible cursor theme ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yea, I did some googling but didn't get far with that
<exobuzz> i like seeing the pointer personally, as i can see where i click and where it thinks i cliced
<exobuzz> which dont always match :)
<czajkowski> selinuxium: oi oi don't run away now
<selinuxium> stgraber: I am interested in audio production apps, games, also kvm et al.. Would need a gentle intro. quite happy to get involved with any low hanging fruit...
<exobuzz> Azelphur, do you run squeezeplay ?
<selinuxium> czajkowski: I am still lurking...
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> exobuzz: nah, I use mine as an alarm clock
<Azelphur> don't actually know what squeezeplay is
<czajkowski> selinuxium: talk to stgraber
<selinuxium> czajkowski: I have, or do you mean sin PM?
<czajkowski> missed that
<Azelphur> exobuzz: good news! I broke it.
<exobuzz> Azelphur, saw this on a forum http://pastebin.com/a5tD8HEN btw about cursor
<Azelphur> exobuzz: http://pastebin.com/8EdzZ3jc \o/
<exobuzz> Azelphur, squeezeplay is a server client music thingy.. useful to use joggler as a client to play your music collections around the house etc
<Azelphur> exobuzz: cool, I'll try it
<exobuzz> rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-calibration.conf
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I see :)
<exobuzz> you can recreate the file with the calibration script
<exobuzz> i did a build to run on maverick recently. its described on my joggler page . updated it yesterday or so
 * daubers kicks drupal
<daubers> Done!
 * exobuzz hugs drupal
<Azelphur> exobuzz: haha, I can just fix the file, it just has "ion" at the end of the file on it's own line for some reason...
<Azelphur> weird
<exobuzz> yeh odd.
<daubers> Why people feel the need to do in a video what could be described in a dozen or so lines of text I don't know
<exobuzz> part of "Section" . but how it got like that. hmm
<MartijnVdS> daubers: because videos are cool!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Hmmmmmmm
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I ran the calibration thing on the desktop and followed the instructions, besides that havn't really done anything with it
<exobuzz> daubers, your last comment could be read out of context
<exobuzz> heh
<exobuzz> weird
<Azelphur> daubers: all my stuff is drupal powered :D
<exobuzz> please try it again and cat that file and see if its the same
<nucc1> I've got a host behind a virgin media gateway I need to be able to access from outside, so i enabled port-forwarding on the router for port 22. I still get 'connection refused' when i try to connect, so I'm guessing i need to make my machine listen on some IP, any hints?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: http://pastebin.com/Gzgi5dxc broke it another way now :(
<exobuzz> ive eaten too much curry. just wanted to share that
<exobuzz> erk. wtf
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I have a reputation of being able to break anything :(
<exobuzz> you lost your initramfs or kernel perhaps ?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<moreati> nucc1: possibly dumb question, are you running an ssh server? i.e. can you ssh into the machine at all?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I did the thermal.psv thing, maybe I messed up
<exobuzz> mount the usb stick on a pc. mount /dev/sdx3 /mnt mount /dev/sdx1 /mnt/boot chroot /mnt then "update-initramfs -k 2.6.34.7joggler4 -c" and check there is the kernel image file in boot also
 * Azelphur looks in the config file
<exobuzz> please paste me the contents of /boot/grub.cfg
<nucc1> moreati, he he, yeap. ssh on the machine works fine, i think the ssh server just finds my public IP to be unknown.
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yea...that's what I was about to do...only, it's gone
<nucc1> i'm searching to see if sshd has something akin to apache's 'listen'
<Azelphur> which makes absolutely no sense
<exobuzz> on partition 1. if you mount that somewhere. sorry if this is known/obvious to you :)
<MartijnVdS> nucc1: check /etc/ssh/sshd_config and its manpage
<exobuzz> wasnt unmounted safely after writing ?
<exobuzz> ill give you a config. 1 sec
<moreati> nucc1: have you reserved an IP address for the ssh server, or otherwise given it a static IP?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yea maybe, the only thing I've done unsafely was pulled the plug after it finished booting, because X didn't start I had no way of controlling it
<exobuzz> grub.cfg http://pastebin.com/YH0HazVJ
<nucc1> moreati, yes. MartijnVdS i'm looking now, thanks
<Azelphur> ty
<exobuzz> check you have in boot initrd.img-2.6.34.7joggler4, vmlinuz-2.6.34.7joggler4 also
<DJones> Has anybody been offered a Chrome Netbook? If I can provide a US Postal address, I'm eligible to receive one
<ali1234> specs?
<nperry> DJones: poke jono bacon?
<Paul2> Why does installing ubuntu from scratch take an order of magnitude less time than upgrading 10.04-10.10?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: nope, in /boot I have nothing, only grub.cfg
<MichealH> Why cant the people in soaps call a fire bragade sheesh!
<ali1234> because installing from scratch is essentially nothing more than a dd operation, and apt is hella slow
<MichealH> ;)
<exobuzz> erk..  cant be gone. you are looking on another machine ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: yup
<exobuzz> boot is partition 1, did you mount that. if you mounted root (partition3). it will be empty
<DJones> nperry: Nice idea, if they only deliver to the US, probably no use to me, but possibly he could use it
<exobuzz> boot is partition 1 - fat32 filesystem, mounted on top of partition3 in /boot when you boot. on another machine you can mount it separately whereever
<Azelphur> exobuzz: ohhh, yea wrong partition, I have a /media/linux-boot/vmlinuz-2.6.34.7joggler4
<Azelphur> and initrd too
<exobuzz> ok cool
<Azelphur> was looking in /boot/ on the root partition :x
<exobuzz> yeh. thought so :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> so you just need to fix the grub.cfg in there
<DJones> Not much detail about the machine http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/37185/chrome-os-notebook-hardware-detailed
<DJones> Hmmh, have to fill in a survey before being eligible as well
<Azelphur> exobuzz: there we go, boots now ty :)
<Azelphur> DJones: what conditions do you have to fill to be able to get one? :)
<exobuzz> cool
<evilchristel> Azelphur: http://www.google.com/chromeos/pilot-program-cr48.html
<exobuzz> you using thermal.psv then ? or just testing to see ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I'm using thermal.psv
<Azelphur> I have it set to 80 :)
<evilchristel> Azelphur: thats where you can ask to be considered for one :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<nucc1> MartijnVdS, i can't seem to find an option that looks like what i want. there's BindAddress but it only takes one IP address
<exobuzz> Azelphur, cool. warms the house up nicely then..  dont sue me if your joggler fries.. :-)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: haha, I will :p
<Azelphur> exobuzz: do you run at 80?
<DJones> Azelphur: Pretty much what type of user are you, what do you do, what do you use, whats your shoe size etc
<exobuzz> yeh.. ive tested getting it even warmer too
<Azelphur> DJones: yea, I probably won't be getting one, I'm not much of a fan of android (although I have an android as it's the best option atm) and no doubt I won't be much of a fan of chrome os :p
<Azelphur> I don't like the limits, I'd be more of a maemo/meego person
<Azelphur> exobuzz: fun :)
<exobuzz> Azelphur, i think 80c wont be a problem.. critical point is set to 100 at which point it should halt/stop anyway. i believe the atom z520 has a hardwar thermal protection at 120c where voltage gets removed from the cpu before the silicon fries
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> it's not android, it's chrome
<ali1234> chrome os is just fullscreen chrome
<Azelphur> ali1234: I know, I'm just saying I wasn't much of a fan of their first OS so no doubt not much of a fan of their second :)
<Azelphur> haha, exactly
<Azelphur> limitations :(
<ali1234> literally, there is nothing else
<ali1234> i'm not sure if you can minimise it, but if you did there would just be a blank screen
<Azelphur> haha
<evilchristel> yeah, one of the questions is basically "what makes you ready to submit to browser and web app only computing" (paraphrased)
<Azelphur> Seems silly to limit it tbh, chrome os is Ubuntu based, why take away everything that's great about Ubuntu and then cram it into a browser
<ali1234> chrome os is not ubuntu based
<Azelphur> ali1234: it isn't? I heard it was
<jacobw> well the answer is obvious isn't it? Google dominates web apps
<jacobw> all these things are about 'owning' a use case
<jgjones> It's an experiment - most people already use web apps - such as gmail (or others) for emails and so on, so it's probably to encourage greater uptake of Google Docs etc
<jacobw> in my opinion
<Azelphur> hehe
<jgjones> one example...I have a friend who's a noob with computers. He wanted a drawing program for his Windows.
<jgjones> Went into Google and googled for drawing programs
<jgjones> all top results for him was all online apps for drawing and that's how he've been doing his "drawing" - online.
<jgjones> no software.
<Azelphur> hehe
<jgjones> Chrome OS - the same thing for him, but better security than Windows ;-)
<Azelphur> true :)
<jgjones> so I can see it working for some people that don't need much
<Azelphur> yea, I can see it working for a lot of people
<jgjones> Interestingly enough - on one forum I did see a Windows vs Linux thread - surprisingly no flaming etc in there...very rare I know...
<Azelphur> haha
<exobuzz> i dont like the whole idea of not owning/running software on my comuter and turning computing into rented home terminals .. people with those ideas often want to do things with the internet, so you buy like a tv package and get google, bbc news. package 2 if you want youtube
<jgjones> it was mainly focused on ease of use - with most saying Ubuntu et al was focusing more on doing thing more easily
<exobuzz> its for them to maximise profit and control, and not for our benefit..
<jgjones> for example software installation was much easier
<Azelphur> jgjones: yea, I generally stick normal users on Ubuntu, unless they are gamers
<MonsterKiller> is rsyslogd meant to be using 191880 kB or RAM? :o
<MonsterKiller> of*
<jacobw> I'm provisioning a computer for a novice relative, I'm not confident about getting everything working with Ubuntu
<jgjones> whereas windows' "ease of use" depend on their market share - nearly everyone have used Windows - but they was looking at *newbies* so for them, ubuntu/OSX is better.
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: probably not :p
<MonsterKiller> :P
<exobuzz> rsyslogd does lots of funny things.. the config file format was made to be unreadable too
<MonsterKiller> well it is
<MonsterKiller> D:
<jgjones> However I think Ubuntu in some area is easier than OSX esp for software installation/updates.
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: fun :p
<jacobw> definately jgjones
<MonsterKiller> Azelphur, http://monster.pastebin.com/Z8ifGxhe
<MonsterKiller> :P
<jgjones> exobuzz - I agree...I would prefer my own localised computer/software
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: ah, I'm not 100% sure but I think ps includes easily-freeable memory (such as cache and buffers) in that count.
<jacobw> speaking of Drawing, Inkscape is a really great program :)
<exobuzz> rsyslogd also is a bit weird. they have about 7 ongoing developed versions. talk about confusing
<jgjones> jacobw, I base it on how I've seen people use OSX's installation...some newbies was downloading dmg's and then opening that and then running apps directly from the finder window that opens!
<exobuzz> jgjones, yeh me too. and the freedoms that come with that
<jacobw> Its very fustrating trying to support people using Windows, because I keep thinking "well, I know how to do that in Ubuntu"
<Azelphur> jacobw: indeed :P
<jgjones> unless it is like Firefox or Opera where it have a background picture showing that you need to drag and drop it in applications.
<Azelphur> I refuse to support Windows now unless they have a good reason for being on Windows (gamers)
<MonsterKiller> *shrug* :P i got that output from webmin
<exobuzz> Azelphur, nethack isn't enough for them ? :)
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I actually game in Ubuntu, but I'm crazy
<jgjones> Now Apple's doing App Store for OSX - obviously it show that having a Software Centre is easier for end users.
<jgjones> But I'll prefer Ubuntu's implementation - I know i can add PPA's if I wanted extra software not provided by core Ubuntu repo's
<exobuzz> Azelphur, hehe.. i subscribed to cedega some years back.. but i never got anything working. due having an ati gfx card that had sh*t drivers. in the end i decided to end my subscription to them.. still on the same laptop. i must be mad. its now 5 years old. and the screen starts up red as the backlight is on the way out
<jgjones> and without the restrictions that Apple will obviously slap on their App Store.
<jacobw> At the same time, I just seem to run in to problems like Evolution won't send email and I can't solve these problems remotely
<Azelphur> exobuzz: cedega are lame :/
<jgjones> I just use wine.
<jacobw> very lame
<jgjones> It works just about well enough by itself.
<exobuzz> yeh.. since then i have used wine for some stuff that has worked ok
<Azelphur> exobuzz: cedega took a fork of wine before they decided to license it under GPL and started selling it basically
<exobuzz> but its just easier to dual boot and use windows.
<Azelphur> cedega be evil
<jgjones> although I've not gotten Civilization V (via Steam) working on Wine yet :(
<exobuzz> Azelphur, yeh.. i think there was a specific game that worked better in cedega than wine which was why i subscribed
<Azelphur> if you want paid/premium support for wine, go with crossovers
<Azelphur> crossover are <3 :D
<exobuzz> freelancer... which works on wine ok now
<Azelphur> hehe
<jgjones> Crossovers now do games AND they contribute back to wine.
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I play Alien Swarm, Burnout Paradise, CS:S, HL*, NFS Undercover, L4D(2), Portal, Supreme commander 2 and TF2 in wine :)
<exobuzz> i spent a lot of time with wine last night.. hence my hangover
<Azelphur> haha
<dutchie> L4D2 \o/
<Azelphur> although I don't play much of most of em, I mainly hit up NFSU Burnout paradise and TF2 :D
<jacobw> i've given up on PC for games
<exobuzz> Azelphur,  impressive... i got my wii.. and my xbox1 with emulators. thats about as much gaming as i get time for. and ive hardly used the wii too
 * jacobw brought a PS3 a fortnight ago
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> ..
<Azelphur> blast, I need to do something about hitting my numpad when I reach over to play piano
<jacobw> that sounds like a trivial problem Azelphur !
<Azelphur> I hit the del (.) and ins (0) and then end up hitting the numpad enter and sending weird stuff to IRC :P
<exobuzz> Azelphur, id like to play some more games. i really miss all that..
<Azelphur> exobuzz: haha, I do lots of TF2 related stuff, run a very popular server :)
<exobuzz>  Alien Swarm looks like fun
<Azelphur> I recently moved my server so my popularity rank went down, I was 99th percentile, I'm 96th now.
<exobuzz> nice.. this is fps stuff. im out of touch. team fortress 2 ?
<Azelphur> yup :)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I do server side development for it too which is fun
<exobuzz> nice
<andylockran> guys, ipvy6
<Azelphur> http://azelphur.com/project/sourceirc \o/
<andylockran> ipv6
<exobuzz> will check
<Azelphur> exobuzz: it's pretty fun, I implemented the IRC protocol server side, so the game server itself connects to IRC as a client and relays stuff :)
<exobuzz> aah. to control via irc ?
<Azelphur> yup
<MonsterKiller> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/change-ubuntu-server-from-dhcp-to-a-static-ip-address/ im using this to setup static ip and im not sure what i need to put for broadcast or network
<MonsterKiller> do i just take them out?
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: nope, it won't work without them
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: is this on your VPS?
<MonsterKiller> yeah
<MonsterKiller> i got the other ones
<MonsterKiller> just dont know what to put for those
<Azelphur> ah you have other IPs
 * Azelphur looks at how I did it on mine
<MonsterKiller> :P
<Azelphur> sudo ifconfig eth0:0 204.145.82.243 up
<Azelphur> I just do that, kinda cheap and doesn't take effect on startup
<MonsterKiller> i know the address, netmask and gateway for that
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: I didn't set any, I assume they are autodetected from DHCP
<MonsterKiller> yeah
<MonsterKiller> wanted to get rid of it to save memory
<MonsterKiller> ^^
<Azelphur> wanted to get rid of dhcp?
<MonsterKiller> wanted to use static instead
<Azelphur> you won't save memory by removing dhcp
<Azelphur> you'd save more memory switching to a lighter weight OS, but even then what ever you do your not going to save more than about 10MB
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MonsterKiller> dhclient3 was just using a fair amount that was all
<Azelphur> the basics of ubuntu server only use 16MB of memory so there's no point in trying to cut down on that really
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: shouldn't do :p
<MonsterKiller> jgeboski suggested going to static
<MonsterKiller> well
<MonsterKiller> not loads
<MonsterKiller> meh
<Azelphur> lol
<MonsterKiller> 	6548 kB
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: that doesn't sound right, your probably getting the max allocation space for the app or something
<nucc1> wow, i don't know what the name of the ssh daemon is on my machine
<MonsterKiller> 799 	root 	6548 kB 	dhclient3 -e IF_METRIC=100 -pf /var/run/dhclient.eth0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp3/dhc ...
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: what command are you running to get that?
<MonsterKiller> Azelphur, webmin output
<Azelphur> \o/
<MonsterKiller> 'Running Processes'
<MonsterKiller> :P
<MonsterKiller> Azelphur, is there a better way to get how much memory its using?
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: yea, run ps aux
<MonsterKiller> xD
<Azelphur> MonsterKiller: or if your looking at saving memory, run top and hit > it'll sort everything by memory usage
<Azelphur> so you can see what's using all the memory
<MonsterKiller> %MEM 0.1
<Azelphur> on?
<MonsterKiller> dhclient3
<Azelphur> how much memory do you have?
<MonsterKiller> 512 with 512 swap
<MonsterKiller> :P
<marsilainen> godaddy seem to have standard SSL certs for ~Â£8 atm
<marsilainen> anywhere else I should consider?
<MonsterKiller> they do
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<Azelphur> marsilainen: http://nodaddy.com/ :p
<MonsterKiller> lol
<marsilainen> I've never used them
<marsilainen> are they bad?
<Azelphur> marsilainen: or in summary, godaddy are about as easy to social engineer as a gullible 4 year old, they give domains to thieves all the time and suspends accounts without due cause or fine you
<marsilainen> should I avoid?
<Azelphur> indeed, avoid
<marsilainen> ok
<MonsterKiller> lol
<Azelphur> the minute someone pipes up and says your wrong, godaddy will act
<marsilainen> where is a good place to buy ssl certs then?
<Azelphur> they don't verify anything
<Azelphur> marsilainen: check if namecheap.com do them, that's where I send people who want domains
<Azelphur> namecheap are good :D
<marsilainen> seems like namecheap do rapidssl certs for $10.95
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> marsilainen: when I had problems with yahoo domains they helped me get away and I've been with them for a couple years, all been good
<marsilainen> ok, thanks
<marsilainen> I guess I'll give them a try
<marsilainen> and sue you if it all goes wrong :)
<MonsterKiller> hehe
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Unity Bitesize Bug Report for 7 December - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/07/unity-bitesize-bug-report-for-7-december/
<ali1234> heh, my bug report is in that ^
<mattt> evening all
 * daubers considers replacing a couple of convection heaters with oil filled heaters
<ali1234> those are good those are
<daubers> Pretty sure it would be cheaper to run....
<ali1234> i dunno about that, it's still a heating element at the end of the day
<andylockran> If I have the following IP address on my server.. 2001:ba8:1f1:f015::2/64 can I use this as a tunnel for my desktop device? I'm using OpenVPN
<jgjones> daubers - They're probably a bit more efficient in heating (oil hold heat longer) but it's still heated using electricity but still better than convection heaters.
<ali1234> the thing about oil heaters is the element can get much hotter, therefore you can actually properly heat a room with them, instead of just having the fan heater blowing on you 24x7
<ali1234> but of course it uses way more electricity
<ali1234> consider that any heat the oil stores is heat that isn't heating up the room
<ali1234> oh yeah, they are quiet too, unlike a fan heater
<daubers> ali1234: We've just got convection heaters (not fan heaters)
<daubers> Just want to reduce the Â£300/month leccy bill a bit really
<ali1234> put on a hat and scarf
<jgjones> actually - oil and convection heaters use same power - ie if you get a 1000W heater then it's 1000W
<jgjones> regardless of oil or convection.
<daubers> jgjones: Well, yes, but the frequency of the element coming on should be less with an oil heater (in theory)
<ali1234> might be a bit more efficient due to higher temperatures involved, but probably not much
<jgjones> daubers - I know how it feel...my last place's heating was so crap, I only got lukewarm temps at best in house with a giant bill.
<daubers> Stupid convection heater comes on and off about every 30 seconds
<ali1234> if the element is on less it produces less heat... thermodynamics :)
<uraken> hello all does anyone of a really good internet filtering system i can use for my children?
<jgjones> daubers, I think oil is probably more efficient but I have no idea to be honest. Gut feeling say oil. Can't find any tests otherwise.
<jgjones> uraken - I use OpenDNS
<ali1234> if there is a difference it's going to be a few %
<jgjones> uraken - www.opendns.com
<daubers> ali1234: Yes, but it depends on how efficiently it's transferring that heat to the medium around it, and how quickly that moves away
<uraken> is this content filtering? jg?
<ali1234> all the heat is going to move into the room eventually, or else the heater either switches off or catches fire :)
<jgjones> uraken, you can use OpenDNS to filter out specific areas you don't want your kids to access such as porn, games, and whatever else - quite a choice really.
<daubers> ali1234: Yup, but air is a pretty rubbish conducting medium (for heat)
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<uraken> perfect exactly what i am after, is it a download or do i point my dns settings there?
<daubers> Tempted to get one and just measure it
<jgjones> daubers, when dealing with crappy heating in my last place, I just bought plenty of heavy duty but nice blankets and laid them over sofas etc
<daubers> jgjones: Heh :)
<ali1234> the oil heater will heat the room faster, but it will use almost the same amount of electricity
<jgjones> then when watching tv etc, put them over - works quite well :)
<ali1234> snuggy
<ali1234> it's on my xmas list
<daubers> Shall sleep on it I think
<daubers> Night all
<jgjones> uraken - just point your DNS to openDNS - and for your IP - if you have dynamic IP's you'll need their OpenDNS updater to keep up to date.
<uraken> brilliant many thanks JG really appreciate your help i will go take a look and seehow i get on take care and thanks again
<jgjones> uraken, have a look at their site and play with a new account - it's all free so there's no harm in trying it out. If it doesn't meet your needs, then just change DNS settings back to normal.
<uraken> i will do thanks :)
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-08
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Unity: An Ancient African Word Meaning Rocking - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/08/unity-an-ancient-african-word-meaning-rocking/
<ball> Is there a Granbuntu?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Video Of Current Unity - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/12/08/video-of-current-unity/
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * MartijnVdS updates his natty box
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> what does OSD stand for in Notify OSD ?
 * daubers beats drupal with a stick
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: on screen display?
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: Thanks
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: any wiki doc
<MartijnVdS> http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&q=define:OSD&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1
 * daubers wonders why his blasted drupal thing is silently failing to login and not allowing him to do some admin tasks on the machine he is logged in as
<MartijnVdS> \o/ php ;)
<czajkowski> daubers: you need more tea clearly
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if daubers needs to clear the cookie/session cache...
<MartijnVdS> sounds like a reasonable suggestion
<daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: On two machines?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hmm.
<daubers> I have a machine that is logged in, but that can't do things like delete users
<daubers> the other machine fails login silently
<TheOpenSourcerer> Have you looked at the logs for the drupal server machine?
<daubers> Hmmmmm "PHP Warning:  Unknown: POST Content-Length of 227 bytes exceeds the limit of -1048576 bytes in Unknown on line 0"
 * daubers goes digging
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's an informative error message ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Corrupted/hacked php.ini maybe?
<daubers> Ah ha!
<daubers> I'd upped the post size limit last night, and instead of being 50M it had become 50505050505050505050505050505050505050505050505050505050505050505050505050M
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> vi++ :)
<MartijnVdS> 50i50M<ESC>
<MartijnVdS> or something
<daubers> Odd thing was, it was reporting correctly last night
<MartijnVdS> is php running in a persistent mode?
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - VirtualBox licensing will be changing, and for the better on initial inspection... http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36778&p=164949%23p164949
<MartijnVdS> hm.. for the better?
<daubers> MartijnVdS: It's more or less default
<MartijnVdS> it's Oracle isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: default-apache-module or default-cgi :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: apache module :)
<MartijnVdS> then it broke this morning when cron/logrotate restarted apache, I guess :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> USB 1.1 OHCI now part of the core (open source license). They've changed it to an extension-based model.
<daubers> stupid thing
<popey> morning ratfans
<czajkowski> popey: ello ello
<gord> morning all
<danfish> hi ho
<dwatkins> hi ho
 * popey leaves for work
<gord> its off to work he goes?
<wintellect> ...with a bucket and spade and a hand grenade
<wintellect> Hi Ho, Hi Ho...
<JamesTait> Morning all. :)
<popey> lo JamesTait
<JamesTait> Hi popey, how's tricks?
<danfish> how much of the stuck-in-snow etherpad stuff did you end up getting popey?
<popey> almost zero :)
<danfish> hah - but it was a fun list to make :)
<danfish> I thought about buying some of those snow socks, but then realised 1) I'd still get stuck behind other cars without them and 2) It would then never snow again in my lifetime
<popey> JamesTait: tickety boo thanks!
<dwatkins> danfish: people seem to think this kind of weather is exceptional, but we've been having extreme winters (and summers) for years now
<BigRedS> It's still (normally) kind of exceptional
<BigRedS> of the order of <10 days per year of this sort of thing
<gord> huh? no, winter is always like this, we have a cold bit in the middle of winter then it gets warmer again
<BigRedS> I meant the whole snow thing
<popey> -14 in bonnie scotland!
<BigRedS> and people claiming an inability to get to work
 * BigRedS is in the south, and perhaps biased
<popey> \o/ the tropical south
<popey> anyone here tried bitcoin?
<Linuxsapien> so what nvidia card should I get, im tired of this screen flickering on and off all the time now :(
<diplo> Anyone recommend a place to look up usage of VM's under KVM and how much I can load onto a box ?
<diplo> Some way of calculating what loads etc a basic install etc
<Linuxsapien> what repository are the ubuntu linux kernals under?
<cheryljosie> hello anyone listening?
<danfish> diplo: are you using that libvirt gui app - I think that will give you what you need
<cheryljosie> need help with encryption
<screen-x> morning :)
<cheryljosie> hi
<danfish> cheryljosie: ask your question and if someone can help I'm sure they will
<cheryljosie> i need a full disk encryption overview. i have used freeotfe under microsoft but every time i try to read up on linux i get confused
<diplo> danfish, trying to spec a server to run 2-4 virtual machines but not a huge budget
<diplo> Trying to find a way of working out what can run on certain specs
<danfish> are the servers/future VM's already running on their own hardware?
<cheryljosie> i have several different ubuntu debian centos installations multiboot but none configured yet
<cheryljosie> and trying to learn how to use encryption
<cheryljosie> since still in research mode i want to just try mounting a couple of encrypted volumes
<cheryljosie> butr so far i have not even used lvm just regular partitiolns
<cheryljosie> and what confuses me is which encryption programs do what
<screen-x> cheryljosie: the ubuntu alternate installer can setup full disk encryption,  partition encryption, or encrypted home dir.
<cheryljosie> yes i know that it can but i am running experimental multiboot and i still have a windows partition i need to keep
<cheryljosie> and all those desktop installers pretty much want to take over the whole hdd
<screen-x> they don't have to, the ubuntu live installer is pretty good at detecting windows installations.
<cheryljosie> what i need is an overview of the existing encryption programs such as dm-crypt luks etc
<cheryljosie> so i can learn how they work and configure manually
<diplo> Sorry danfish multiple messages on the go on msn, all current installs are running on old PC's servers that are 7-10 years old
<cheryljosie> i am also trying to mount an existing freeotfe volume with ntfs
<diplo> Want to combine them down to one VM box
<cheryljosie> so anyone konw of a good encrption tutorial web page?
<popey> cheryljosie: what aspect of encryption?
<cheryljosie> wel for example should i be using a luks volume or lvm or should i just use dm-crypt and a simple partition
<popey> hmm, dont recally seeing a direct comparison recently
<screen-x> cheryljosie: iirc luks uses dm-crypt.
<cheryljosie> i am pretty sure i will just stick to straightforward aes(?) algorithm with aes hash
<screen-x> encryption and volume management are separate problems, but lvm is more useful than partitions imho.
<cheryljosie> probably, and once i figure out how to configure a system properly i may eventually set up lvm but for now i am strictly in tutorial mode
<cheryljosie> so specifically i want to know how to mount an encrypted volume that i can also access with freeotfe if possible
 * screen-x hasn't used freeotfe
<cheryljosie> to date have not been able to understand encryption enough to mount a volume
<cheryljosie> although i have manually partitioned and installed several linux versions beside a windows xp install
<cheryljosie> primarily using gparted cfdisk and grub etc
<danfish> diplo: sounds like a good idea. as you've got them running already on hardware, you could just graph their average loads etc over time
<screen-x> cheryljosie: read the man pages for luksformat and cryptsetup (especially luksopen section)
<diplo> yeah it's working out after, might just do that anyway
<cheryljosie> ok thanks i will read those i have not seen those man pages yet thanks very much i have just been reading the web page manuals and wiki and not getting anywhere so i will read those youreferred to
<nperry> Really wish there was some sugar in this office, black coffee with no sugar just doesn't taste the same
<danfish> I see what you mean "i've got 4 servers with 2gb RAM each, do I need one box with 8gb?"
<cheryljosie> one other question what is the current encryption program i would like to be sure i am using current commands and driver etc rather than using obsolete
<cheryljosie> i think using loop devices may be obsolete but i dont know the history
<cheryljosie> nor do i really understand loop devices
<screen-x> cheryljosie: luks is current
<diplo> I reckon we could run them @ 512mb ram each and noone would notice tbh
<cheryljosie> ok if luks is current that is ok but does a luks volume hve a recognizeable signature
<screen-x> diplo: As long as they don't swap.
<cheryljosie> one of the advantages of freeotfe is the volumes have no recognizable signature so an encrypted partition just looks like a wiped partition
<screen-x> cheryljosie: you now want deniable encryption?
<cheryljosie> yes
<cheryljosie> can luks do it?
<mgdm> is it normal that if one person logs into an Ubuntu box, then does 'switch user', the second and subsequent people to log in don't get any sound?
<screen-x> cheryljosie: haven't tried. I'm sure you could do stuff with offsets, so the beginning of the partition didn't look like the beginnig of a luks partition, but I don't know if it has a built in mechanism for that.
<cheryljosie> so what about dm-crypt? is that deniable encryption capable?
<cheryljosie> i guess what i plan is a fully encrypted ubuntu install with a deniable encryption home partition
<cheryljosie> that way even though i may have to reveal my login my data is still secure
<screen-x> cheryljosie: as long as you had a plausable alternate home dir...
<cheryljosie> yes of course
<screen-x> cheryljosie: accoding to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_disk_encryption_software luks doesn't have hidden containers.
<danfish> diplo: probably - if you want really lean and mean then openvz
<davmor2> morning all
<screen-x> \o davmor2
<cheryljosie> yes i see... thanks
<screen-x> contrary to the topic, I am struggling to love printers at the mo.
<screen-x> cheryljosie: :)
<cheryljosie> unfortunately i am booting from a livecd of knoppix and none of the encryption modules are installed
<cheryljosie> so the man pages are not accessible
<daubers> cheryljosie: google man <command> more often than not they're there
<cheryljosie> i did find a lengthy walk-through of how to install an encrypted ubuntu
<cheryljosie> using the alternate cd
<cheryljosie> and it said it was for use with 10.04
<cheryljosie> and that got me thinking that ubuntu even does not yet support auto install of encrypted os
<cheryljosie> at least not point-and-click anyway
<cheryljosie> i found it googling ubuntu encrypted home or something like that
<daubers> cheryljosie: encrypted home is an install option
<cheryljosie> and it looked comprehensive but not at all intuitive'
<cheryljosie> anyway thanks for pointing out that luks does not support hidden containers actually it looks like none of the standard linux encryption packages does
<cheryljosie> so i will end up using standard encryption for the os and home partitions and deniable encryption with a third party tool for the deniable encryption on the alternate home
<cheryljosie> thanks that sorted out one big source of confusion for me
<cheryljosie> now just one last question... if i am using a hidden container is there a way to limit the size of the 'fake' container so that i can continue using it without risking overwriting the deniable container?
<cheryljosie> i know there is some sort of interleaving possible on advanced encryption where all the containers are interwoven
<cheryljosie> but i dont have any direct documentation of how to do that especially without corrupting other containers
<AlanBell> cheryljosie: there is also http://manpages.ubuntu.com/
<kaushal> hi everyone
<kaushal> Ubuntu 10.10 is Awesome
<X3N> good good
<BigRedS> One day, I'm going to see if I can count all the man page mirrors on the net
<BigRedS> I'm sure I've never used the same one twice
<screen-x> BigRedS: I'm beginning to recognise the lens flare at the top of the ubuntu one.
<bigcalm> Supernoodles are so super
<screen-x> super MooDooles are superer
<bigcalm> I have super saucy supernoodles, so saucy it's super
<bigcalm> These and pot noodles are the only time I choose to use a fork with noodles
<bigcalm> How odd
<bigcalm> They should be collectively known as lazy noodles
<bigcalm> Who did the noodle dance?
<screen-x> ups parcel status: exception. I'd like to see a backtrace.
<bigcalm> Heh
<screen-x> ahh EADVERSEWEATHERCONDITIONS
<cheryljosie> awakening from my snooze... thanks for the manpages referen ce... i will check it out in the am once i wake up.. sweet dreams everyone and thanks
<bigcalm> The bottle of bown-nosing is almost with my boss
<screen-x> cheryljosie: I wish I was in a timezone where it was nearly time to sleep.
<screen-x> bigcalm: you sent a present to your bos? what is it?
<screen-x> nosy screen-x is nosy.
<bigcalm> screen-x: http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-8288.aspx
<cheryljosie> actually here it is nearly time to wake up... but for us on disability it does not make much difference when we sleep. nite all
<screen-x> bigcalm: looks tasty :)
<bigcalm> screen-x: it's lovely stuff
<bigcalm> Really warming
<popey> bigcalm: did you see the cheffy thing where they showed how pot noodles are made?
 * BigRedS abandoned his Whiskey avoidance at london.pm last week
<BigRedS> i wants moar now
<bigcalm> popey: nope. Does it make you want to never have another pot noodle?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Phew
<popey> they boil the noodles then deep fry them
<bigcalm> Cool!
<popey> which removes the water and makes them all hard
<bigcalm> Healthy
<popey> :)
<mgdm> nice
<bigcalm> Hi mgdm
<mgdm> 'lo bigcalm
<popey> then you add water to re-hydrate them
<popey> quite cunning really
<bigcalm> I did wonder how they worked. But never wondered enough ;)
<mgdm> I asked earlier, but on the off chance - if my girlfriend logs onto my computer first, then I switch user later, I get no sound 'til we both log off and on again - anyone else seen that?
<bigcalm> Sounds like something that would get shown in How it's Made
 * TheOpenSourcerer promotes his favourite single malt: http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-12085.aspx
<TheOpenSourcerer> And orders a couple of bottles (one for me and one for Dad).
<bigcalm> mgdm: sounds like an ownership issue
<mgdm> bigcalm: aye - it's really rather annoying
<bigcalm> mgdm: tell her to stop using your machine :P
<mgdm> heh
<bigcalm> popey: no graze box again :(
<BigRedS> mgdm: Uselessly, I did have that on a box a while ago. But I didn't actually fix it
<bigcalm> I'm going to have to move my order to Tuesdays so that I get it on Wednesday
<popey> :( bigcalm
<popey> bigcalm: did I mention I complained about mine not arriving on saturday
<popey> then it turned up on sunday!
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer, screen-x: King's Ginger is being given to several families this year. Now I want it to be the end of the day so I can have a tipple
<bigcalm> popey: aye, how nuts is that. Posties on over-time?
<dutchie> bigcalm: well, you do work at home, so no-one would know...
<dutchie> ^^ student way of thinking
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> dutchie: I still have to answer the phone and get work done :)
<mgdm> http://www.lovefilm.com/robots.txt \o/
<bigcalm> I'm too sensible
<bigcalm> mgdm: heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think my Mum would like that one actually bigcalm. Would make a fantastic Whiskey Mac I reckon.
<screen-x> mgdm: I've seen the the 3 laws in robots.txt before, but I can't remember which site it was..
<popey> mgdm: they ripped that off last.fm
<dwatkins> screen-x: last.fm: http://www.last.fm/robots.txt
<dwatkins> heh
<popey> we interviewed jonty on the podcast (who made the last.fm robots.txt) and I meant to ask him about it
<mgdm>  well, aye - last.fm went for Asimov, they've gone for Robocop, there are more
<mgdm> there's one I saw with an ASCII art Bender in it
<screen-x> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> I just got a great deal via American Express. Just bought a case (12) of good wine, delivered, with a decent corkscrew - Â£39.99
<bigcalm> That would make for a good present. A Kindel pre-loaded with all of the books from the Robots and Foundation series
<dwatkins> bigcalm: that's an excellent plan
 * dwatkins notes the Foundation series is not available for Kindle
<bigcalm> :O
 * dwatkins clicks the link to ask for it to be so
<dwatkins> http://goo.gl/mDlpa is for Kindle, though, bigcalm
<bigcalm> I can't bring myself to get a kindle. I'd forever want it to be a full tablet. Maybe I should buy a tablet
<dwatkins> I'm getting my other half one for christmas, she really likes the display and reads a lot
<bigcalm> dwatkins: that's an interesting link
<bigcalm> Oh I dunno now :O
 * popey tickles bigcalm with an ipad
<dwatkins> yeah, that's the other thing - an iPad is a lot more expensive, wish I could get her one though
<screen-x> can't buy an ipad now, v2 (eyepad) is about to arrive!
<popey> i just bought a book on amazon and sent it to the ipad rather than the kindle :S
<dutchie> evil popey is evil
<bigcalm> Well, I've added the Kindle and leather case with light to my wish list. Maybe somebody will buy me one someday :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: no backlight?
<bigcalm> popey: can you read your books in more than one electronic device?
<popey> kindle books, yes
<bigcalm> screen-x: *shrug*
<popey> iphone, android, windows, osx, web, ipad... oh, and kindle :)
<screen-x> popey: simultaneously?
<popey> if you like
<popey> it syncs where you are in the book between devices too
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> Not sure if I could cope with reading books on my Nexus One
<popey> well
<popey> i suspect that the idea is that you can
<popey> whether you would..
<mgdm> I had the app on my Desire for a bit
<popey> for example if you went to bed reading on the kindle, and are now standing on the bus/train/whatever and dont want to get the kindle out, you can pull the phone out and carry on where you were
<mgdm> it got replaced with aldiko and some epubs I got off O'Reilly in an offer
<MartijnVdS> popey: google's ebook stuff supports that too
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe not on kindle, but at least on android/iphone/desktop
<popey> MartijnVdS: not outside the USA it doesnt
<popey> unless thats been fixed since I tried it
<MartijnVdS> popey: it works for out-of-copyright books :)
<popey> not when i tried it
<popey> it flat out refused to let me use it outside the usa
 * popey notes he can pretend to be in the usa via the work proxy
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://books.google.com/ebooks gives me lots of free ebooks to read, with "Read in browser"/"on device" links
<popey> thats no use at all
<jpds> popey: You could always use Tor.
<popey> also not much use
<popey> "My eBooks (3)"
<popey> news to me
<MartijnVdS> which 3? :)
<Daviey> bigcalm: I read a fiction book on my Hero. :)  ... I quite enjoyed it tbh.
<popey> bah, tried to install it on "device" "The item you tried to buy is no longer available"
<MartijnVdS> I'm sticking to my Sony PRS600
<popey> useful
<bigcalm> Need some CSS help :S
<bigcalm> I have a div that I don't want the text to wrap in. Rather it should clip on the right hand side
<bigcalm> Any thoughs?
<mgdm> overflow: hidden?
<bigcalm> That might be the one
<bigcalm> Which attribute has no-wrap?
<mgdm> white-space?
<bigcalm> It worked!
<bigcalm> Yay
<bigcalm> If it wasn't going to work, I would have resorted to replacing spaces with &nbsp;
<bigcalm> Which isn't a sane option
<bigcalm> Ta
<mgdm> np
<jel> Guys... how do I alter an existing checkout pane?
<popey> wut?
<andylockran> howdy
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<czajkowski> doody
<bigcalm> Yo ho ho
 * popey gets the rum
<screen-x> \o/ found manflu tablets in my draw :)
<daubers> Most of the xmas shopping now done
 * czajkowski stabs daubers 
<daubers> czajkowski: ? The internet is your friend for these things
<daubers> How pointless is this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-40614-Cluedo-Harry-Potter/dp/B001D2VWCE/ref=sr_1_26?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1291814756&sr=1-26
<daubers> we all know Voldemort did it by now
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<bigcalm> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just started mine about 10mins ago. All I've bought so far is Booze :-D
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm and TheOpenSourcerer
<brobostigon> booze :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey brobostigon how's it going?
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: not bad, back and hip pain though. how about you?
 * TheOpenSourcerer thanks bigcalm for the suggestion of: http://is.gd/ioeyfÂ that will be keeping my warm this xmas.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: Ta :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: I'm well thanks. Busy, enjoying life and generally tickety boo really.
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: :)
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
 * czajkowski wallops davmor2 
 * davmor2 cattle prods czajkowski 
<mgdm> "tickety boo" sounds like an issue tracker
<czajkowski> davmor2: ouchies
<davmor2> czajkowski: :) when you back now or this evening?
<czajkowski> tonight some time
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] pgdayeu in Stuttgart - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/08/pgdayeu-in-stuttgart/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Rapid Month gone by - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/12/08/rapid-month-gone-by/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - he didn't last long... http://voices.canonical.com/matt.asay/2010/12/08/leaving-canonical/
<ali1234> lol, don't let the door hit your asay on the way out
<dwatkins> perhaps they just used the wrong channel name
<dwatkins> maybe they wanted to discuss Ubuntu in relation to the Ukraine
<Flashtek> o/
 * screen-x wonders about the silent lives of the super space people
 * Flashtek wonders..
<Apacheuk> afternoon all o/
<Flashtek> yo
<brobostigon> afternoonings Apacheuk
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: who knows he might actually blog about ubuntu now that he doesnt work for canonical now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I'm not sure what he actually brought to the party in the end.
<screen-x> Party \o/ http://ubunt.eu/c2
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> not going :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> me neither :-(
 * screen-x can't make it either :(
<bigcalm> London is a silly place any way
<bigcalm> These white choc chip cookies from ASDA are quite scrummy
<dwatkins> yeah, silly London and all those tens of thousands of people
<dwatkins> hundreds of thousands, perhaps
<bigcalm> Millions
<dwatkins> I suspected that but wasn't sure
<czajkowski> bigcalm: and the transport
<bigcalm> dwatkins: http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=population+of+london
<dwatkins> indeed, bigcalm
<bigcalm> Scary
 * bigcalm gives czajkowski  a cookie
<czajkowski> ohh COOKIE
<czajkowski> nyommy
<czajkowski> the only plus side to victoria staion i've found is the place that sells the cookies there
<bigcalm> With white choc
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you know me so well :)
<bigcalm> czajkowski: ;)
<screen-x> london houses ~12% of the uk population. That's a bit of a meh value, its not really low or high.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: 3 weeks and 2 days till you lose that bet my dear alan
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh Hah...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Watch this space :-)
<czajkowski> good
<czajkowski> jus with the annuocments coming be nice to see the new
<daubers> bet?
<Pendulum> daubers: it's probably something involving how much czajkowski can drink new years eve ;-)
<bigcalm> Heh
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> hmm new years will be arriving back into heathrow that day
<TheOpenSourcerer> Surely not. cz<tab> is virtually teetotal.
<czajkowski> not sure i'll even bother doing anything tbh, was more fun when I could work it in security in pubs/clubs
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: as much as you are
<TheOpenSourcerer> oooooh ;-)
<dogmatic69> i am writing a php script that monitors server load and should send an email when it gets too high, what would be "too high" generally speaking?
<davmor2> touchÃ© czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: If the 'load average' is over 1 consistently then it's probably too high.
<dogmatic69> so the 5 min load is > 1
<dogmatic69> or even the 1 min load?
<mgdm> dogmatic69: if the 5 minute average is greater than the number of CPUs the machine has for an extended peroid
<mgdm> dogmatic69: so a load average of 4 on a 4-core box is fine
<dogmatic69> ah ok
<dogmatic69> you making it harder now :P
<mgdm> heh
<screen-x> dogmatic69: isn't that what nagios/insert-monitoring-system-here is for?
<dogmatic69> why does load average not do the load / cores already?
<dogmatic69> screen-x: this is for a open source app, so its the basics for people who cant/dont know how
<Apacheuk> I want to be able to access my machine while out and about but have a dynamic IP address from BT, even tho it doesn't change that often. Have thought about writing a small python script to check external IP address occasionally and email/txt/dm me if it changes. Am I jsut making work for myself?
<TheOpenSourcerer> dyndns
<screen-x> Apacheuk: yep, setup the dyndns client in your router (if it exists..)
<popey> \o/ dyndns
<Apacheuk> dyndns... seems popular, is it FREE???
<popey> yes
<popey> and many domestic routers support it out of the box
<popey> mine does :)
<davmor2> popey: ditto for mine
<maco> and for the ones that dont... um wait...tomato and dd-wrt exist in the uk right?
<popey> \o/ ditto
<screen-x> none of the custom router distros support my router :( but it does have a built in dyndns client.
<popey> !info ddclient
<lubotu3> ddclient (source: ddclient): address updating utility for dynamic DNS services. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.8.0-11.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 71 kB, installed size 372 kB
<Apacheuk> looks like I have a compatible router too
<dwatkins> not all corporate networks allow access to dyndns
<popey> I've never found one that didnt
<screen-x> dwatkins: when would you be using dyndns in a corporate network?
<dwatkins> screen-x: to access my bookmarks from my work laptop
<jpds> dwatkins: Do most corporate networks even allow out-going DNS from beyond their firewalls?
<screen-x> dwatkins: but wouldn't that rely on the corporate network giving you a port forward?
<dwatkins> jpds: I would imagine they need to, but the one I'm thinking of returns 127.0.0.2 for all dyndns.org addresses, presumably because for simplicity
<dwatkins> screen-x: port forwarding isn't necessary, I just need access to apache running on it
<dwatkins> simplicity as in "we can't be sure about these home systems, so let's just not let anyone get to them without editing their hosts file"
<dwatkins> makes sense, you have to know what you're doing to use it
<screen-x> dwatkins: ahhh.. I had it the wrong way round... I though you were running dyndns client on a laptop within a corprorate network...
<dwatkins> ah I see, screen-x - I have done that before, though, to have a note of the internal address of a system on DHCP in another office
<dwatkins> The SpaceX craft launches, and supercosmonaut joins the channel.
<screen-x> dwatkins: SpaceX craft?
 * screen-x googles
<dwatkins> yeah screen-x - fascinating stuff
<dwatkins> it just launched
<dwatkins> http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php
<dwatkins> it was showing there
<AlanBell> http://blog.canonical.com/?p=485
<AlanBell> Matt Asay didn't stay long
<popey> heh
<popey> common thought
<BigRedS> There's nothing apparently in my Applications menu that will let me just open and edit an image, which I'd consider wrong
<BigRedS> but I don't know against what to file a bug or who to prod about it. Is there a generic not-related-to-one-package way of making objectons like that?
<screen-x> BigRedS: can you not do that in f-spot or shotwell?
<klve> hi
<klve> anyone usin openbox here
<BigRedS> screen-x: there's no File->Open
<BigRedS> only file->Import
<BigRedS> you can double-click the image to get to some other image viewer, which can then open it in shotwell and edit it
<BigRedS> but that seemed far more convoluted than it should be
<klve> whats more stable between gnome and kde
<BigRedS> I just wanted to crop a screengrab...
<klve> or openbox
<BigRedS> klve: in what sense of the word 'stable'?
<klve> less buggy
<BigRedS> openbox is most unchanging
<klve> doesnt eat up a lot of memory
<BigRedS> openbox is lowest on memory, too
<BigRedS> none are particularly buggy, try each and see which suits you best
<BigRedS> I think Gnome is traditionally lower-weight than KDE in terms of resources usage, but Gnome's shot up in that arena recently
<klve> ok
<ali1234> kde is widget soup and often quite buggy due to their being more ways to do things than there are testers
<popey> hehe widget soup, like that
<directhex> is there a special widget for kde that makes every settings screen have 1001 options?
<Azelphur> popey: apport doesn't seem to be catching my X crash, I ran sudo service apport start force_start=1 and got X to crash again, nothing in /var/crash :(
<mrxtian>  /msg NickServ mrxtian
<popey> fancy that Azelphur
<popey> have you tried what I originally suggested?
<popey> oh no, because bryce didn't say so, forget that.
<Azelphur> popey: that is what you suggested...
<Azelphur> you said use apport
<Azelphur> but if you just want to be rude instead of trying to help go nuts
<popey> No, I did _not_
<popey> i hinted in the direction of apport because you were dead set on ubuntu-bug
<danfish> customer :"waiter, waiter, there's a fly in my widget soup" waiter:"install gnome then" :P
<popey> I suggested using the docs I linked to
<popey> which don't use apport
<brobostigon> danfish: hehe, i like, lol, :)
 * BigRedS has an experiment in kde lined up for when he gets home
<Azelphur> popey: so you hinted apport, you linked to documentation that says to use apport, but you didn't tell me to use apport?
<popey> i wasnt suggesting using apport
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> you were dead set on using whatever bryce told you to
<ali1234> doing what bryce tells you to do is generally a good idea in my experience
<popey> i was trying to suggest you use something else and gave up because you were dead set
<popey> indeed, I agree
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's what I thought
<Azelphur> popey: obviously, because I didn't try what you hinted and linked to but didn't suggest
<ali1234> however X is a real pita to debug
<popey> i didnt say dont do what bryce said,
<popey> just tried to suggest what _I_ would have done
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing the backtracing bit with gdb is what I have done
<Azelphur> popey: that's what I did in the first place, bryce requested a ubuntu-bug report so he could have all the additional information
<Azelphur> then you hinted/linked apport instead, which I did but didn't get anywhere with :)
<ali1234> there is a way to make apport add the info to an existing bug
<popey> there is
<ali1234> you don't have to retrigger crash
<popey> which I detailed
<popey> hey ho, I'm wrong again \o/
<Azelphur> ali1234: heh I'm just trying to follow instructions here, all I asked was how to get ubuntu-bug to catch an X crash
<Azelphur> it's taken 2 days so far to get an answer, crazy
<ali1234> i have no idea
<ali1234> i have no idea at all how you catch an X crash with even gdb
<popey> i dont think bryce was asking for that
<Azelphur> haha, I caught it with gdb
<popey> 16:44:50 < Azelphur> popey: that's what I did in the first place, bryce requested a ubuntu-bug report so he could have all the additional information
<popey> by "additional information" _I_ _think_ he means all the data about your system, not the crash
<popey> just assuming, might be wrong
<Azelphur> yea, I'd agree with that
<popey> if gdb has already been done and he has the crash dump then all you need is the system data
<ali1234> report a bug on apport "apport doesn't catch X crashes"
<popey> :)
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> then mark your bug as blocked by that bug
<Azelphur> ali1234: how do I add the information after reporting?
<popey> I would use apport-collect (as I did suggest yesterday) to get that data
<Azelphur> popey: ok
<ali1234> yeah, apport-collect, that's it
<ali1234> i think it's just apport-collect <bug-number>
<popey> it is
<Azelphur> except, the last time the word apport-collect was uttered in the channel was 15th of July
 * Azelphur runs :p
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-February/000535.html
<Azelphur> I love having logs, they come in handy
<Azelphur> I'll get on that anyway, hopefully can get this one fixed :)
<popey> lies
<popey> lies lies lies lies lies
<screen-x> remember kids, the topic is love..
<Azelphur>  /topic #ubuntu-uk love :p
<popey> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu-uk.log:19:42 < popey> he probably meant apport-collect
<popey> irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu-uk.log:19:42 < Azelphur> popey: how do I do it with apport-collect?
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | *Lies!
<Azelphur> whoops, was looking at the logs for ubuntu-x :x
<popey> sorry alan
<popey> thats okay
<popey> lets move on
 * BigRedS ponders consuming an entire mug of coffee by dunking biscuits in it
<popey> BigRedS: sucking the coffee from the biscuit?
<screen-x> chocolate fingers!
<BigRedS> eating the biscuits
<screen-x> the finest conduit of tea
<popey> how many dunks before the structural integrity of the biscuit is compromised?
<BigRedS> screen-x: there's an aussie version of penguin bars which is amazing for doing that
<screen-x> oooh I've had one of those..
<BigRedS> you get an awesomely chocolately coffee, then a nicely coffee-tasting biscuit
<screen-x> an Australian friend bought them over.
<BigRedS> tam tam or something IIRC
<popey> oooo
<popey> want
<screen-x> that's the one
<finelytuned> evening all
<BigRedS> TimTam!
<popey> What ho!
<screen-x> finelytuned: its food time in #lies
<finelytuned> oh
<gord> every day i forget about putting the heating on in the afternoon :( *shivvers*
<popey> today I learned something new
<popey> ssh -n
<screen-x> for no shell?
<popey> for backgrounding an ssh to a remote box to run a command there
<gord> neat
<finelytuned> i tild mum you could get it down
<popey> huh?
<popey> wrong window?
<finelytuned> sorry
<finelytuned> my daughter hassling me in other window for me to get the tree down
<screen-x> one thing I haven't worked out how to do with ssh is slave/master sessions. I think its possible to add tunnels to existing sessions, but haven't worked it out yet.
<popey> yes, you can
<popey> Ng knows how
<popey> there's some magic keypresses ~ or ` or something...?
<BigRedS> ~. kills existing tunnels, I think
<BigRedS> ~s denote how far to go, ~~~. gets you to the fourth furthest away host
<danfish> one thing I've not quite figured out is when you are running byobu on the host, and default byobu on the server, it goes a bit screwy.
<danfish> ^^with SSH
<screen-x> <enter>~?
<screen-x> gives some options, but create a tunnel/port forward is not among them.
<screen-x> danfish: I use nested byobu sessions without screwyness
<danfish> screen-x: must be my setup - I find when I remote into the server session, it starts scrolling the page for no reason
<Azelphur> ali1234: I created the bug report and ran apport-collect <bugid> it just says no additional information collected :(
<BigRedS> nested screen sessions would confuse the hell out of me
<BigRedS> would? they do
<popey> i use nested byobu
<popey> ssh to vps and from there to home
<popey> and sometimes from there to another box :)
<popey> ^A ^A ^A-d
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> Ahhhhh
<BigRedS> that's where the confusion comes from
 * bigcalm wakes up
<bigcalm> Whoops
<BigRedS> just repeated ^As
<popey> er
<popey> no
<screen-x> I have "machinename" > "window name" at the bottom of every window.
<popey> ^A A A-d
<screen-x> ^A aaa
<BigRedS> When I end up in nested screen sessions, they're on the same machine. I'm just half asleep and do  ^Rscree <enter>
 * danfish still likes byobu :)
<danfish> should be default on server IMO
<screen-x> BigRedS: always use screen -x, then you won't end up with a nested session
<screen-x> danfish: byobu is still screen
<BigRedS> screen-x: ahhhh. I should probably man screen at some point
<BigRedS> cheers!
<danfish> screen-x: your nick says it all ;)
<screen-x> \o/
<screen-x> I choose it because it's a useful command, but It think I may change nick to something related to my actual name.
<danfish> hmm, choosing nicks is a difficult one ie realname or pseudonym
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey
<screen-x> danfish: I have hds registered, which is my initials, could use that.
<shauno> I find nicks easy; my mother already picked one, and I have little imagination :)
<screen-x> shauno: do you have a uniqueness problem sometimes?
<shauno> only when I tried to use my normal shortname, and drove soneill batty :)
<shauno> (I have one less L)
<screen-x> ahh I can see that would be annoying..
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Remember we talked about ssh sessions timing out over our home routers? Stick "ServerAliveInterval 120" in your ~/.ssh/config on the client end.
<popey> nice, thanks
<screen-x> gotta keep that NAT table record current.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2 minute "ping" inside ssh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's been bugging me for bloody ages.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: are you interested in the proposed ubuntu-uk/rugby meetup for the England/Ireland game with cz<tab>?
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: NOT ARF!
<popey> will there be beer?
<danfish> most excellent :D
<danfish> popey: no - I'm checking out alcohol-free venues :P
<popey> when is it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh, scratch that then danfish
<danfish> popey: sat 19th March
<popey> oh, years away
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: the proposed location is Clapham for ease of transport and \o/ I happen to be in Clapham on Friday with nil to do in th afternoon but check out venues :)
<soneill> hi shauno ;)
<screen-x> heh
<screen-x> Where would you order cage nuts and bolts for a server rack from?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Clapham is OK. Fairly sensible trains.
<TheOpenSourcerer> screen-x: A cage-nut shop
<TheOpenSourcerer> screen-x: I got mine from RS (but I bought a big bag) and it was a long time ago.
<screen-x> ok, thanks TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try eBay or somewhere too.
<popey> yeah, clapham is okay to get back from for me
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'me sure there'll be loads of places if you look around.
<popey> right, stuff this, home time
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: It will be a chore, but a bearable one!
<danfish> I know Clapham fairly well and the links are good
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think I can cope with that danfish. But did I hear that cz<tab> will be in attendance too?
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: oh yes...and maybe MooDoo for battering
<danfish> I remember TheOpenSourcerer and popey did some funky lamb marinating recipes a few weeks ago - fancy posting those to the beta ubuntu-uk recipe section?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] FOSDEM Accommodation - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4360
<daubers> Evening
<Pendulum> hiya daubers
<AlanBell> o/ Pendulum
<Phineas> hi people
<brobostigon> evening Phineas
<Phineas> brobostigon,  this channel is quiet todAY
<brobostigon> Phineas: on and off,
<Phineas> brobostigon,  oh i see, do you know where i can dowm load a mp3 of theres a platypus controling me?
<Phineas> brobostigon,  or convert a video into mp3
<brobostigon> no idea. sorry.
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: converting a video to mp3 would lose the video bit
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: and only keep the audio
<MartijnVdS> I'd use ffmpeg for that
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  ahh what do i do to conver the video to mp3
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg -i file.mp4 file.mp3
<MartijnVdS> that would be my starting point
<MartijnVdS> then look up ffmpeg command line options as needed (mp3 quality?)
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  quality of mp3, resonable but not to rubbish
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: you'll have to look at some of the encoder options in ffmpeg then
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: there are a LOT of tuneable parameters
<popey> ffmpeg --sameq -i file.mp4 file.mp3
<MartijnVdS> popey++
<popey> no loss in quality during conversion
<MartijnVdS> popey: i.e. "same bitrate"? or some magic value of quality? (where vbr is concerned)
<popey> magic :)
<popey> i have no idea
<MartijnVdS> popey: "sameq" is only for video, according to the manpage
<popey> i use it for all my conversions
<popey> oh bummer
<popey> -b 192k   then
<popey> :)
<popey> or something
<MartijnVdS> if the audio track on your video is already mp3, you can use: -acodec copy
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg -i foo.mp4 -acodec copy foo.mp3
<MartijnVdS> that won't re-encode, just extract
<MartijnVdS> (though mp4 is more likely to contain aac, avi might contain mp3 :))
<Phineas> the video is a flv
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: what does just plain "ffmpeg -i file.flv" say? (please put it on pastebin)
<popey> chances are its aac audio or mp3 inside the flv
<MartijnVdS> it'll tell you the audio encodign
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  audio is acc format
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: aac is also used by itunes (m4a), is that good enough?
<MartijnVdS> or do you _really_ need mp3?
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  well if my pm3 player will take it (is it usaly does) then yeah its fine
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg -i file.flv file.m4a :)
<MartijnVdS> and if that doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> ffmpeg -i file.flv file.aac
<brobostigon> pm3 player, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: ##politics "You have 3 PMs now?!"
<Phineas> unsuported codec
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: hmm.
<anomnomnom_> .
<MartijnVdS> argh, aac-free ffmpeg
<MartijnVdS> popey: sounds familiar? :)
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  so what does that mean
<MartijnVdS> Phineas: it means that the Ubuntu people have stripped support for AAC audio from ffmpeg for some reason (probably patents)
<MartijnVdS> there is a version that does work.. popey knows where to find it I think
<Phineas> mp3 same output
<brobostigon> medibuntu ?
<popey> uhm
<popey> it should be able to read aac
<popey> just not encode it
<Phineas> popey,  it tells me the sound is in aac format
<popey> ok
<popey> convert it to mp3 then
<Phineas> popey,  video:0kB audio:1440kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.002169%
<MartijnVdS> isn't mp3 encoding (lame) the same: stripped because of patents ?
<popey> hmmm
<MartijnVdS> though that line implies that it worked
<brobostigon> hence i suggested medibuntu ffmpeg.
<popey> Phineas: has it spat out an mp3?
<popey> brobostigon: its not the ffmpeg you need, its the libs
<popey> one moment
<Phineas> popey,  yeah but totem can't play the mp3
<brobostigon> popey:true, good point,
<popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535666/
<popey> i would add medibuntu and install ^^^ those packages
<popey> !medibuntu
<lubotu3> medibuntu is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons - See http://www.medibuntu.org
<Phineas> popey,  another os on my laptop? oh brother
<popey> no
<popey> its a repository
<popey> you add the repo as per the web page and then install those packages and then you'll have the necessary bits to do encoding to mp3/aac
<Phineas> popey,  how do i add the repo?
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu
<popey> see where it says "Adding the repository"
<popey> paste that into a terminal
<UndiFineD> apt-add-rep<tab>
<Phineas> popey,  E: Command line option --output-document=/etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.list is not understood
<Phineas> humm
<popey> did you copy the entire lines?
<Phineas> popey,  yeah in the first grey box, put it into terminal and that happened
<popey> what version of ubuntu you running?
<popey> please pastebin the entire terminal window you just used
<Phineas> popey,  my bad i misscoppyed the command
<popey> cool
<Phineas> popey,  now i have blooming updates
<popey> right, now sudo apt-get install.. that list of packages i pasted earlier here http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/535666/
<Phineas> popey,  all of them?
<BigRedS> At a guess, yes
<UndiFineD> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:medibuntu-maintainers
<UndiFineD> sudo apt-get --yes install app-install-data-medibuntu apport-hooks-medibuntu
<ali1234> i haven't need to install medibuntu for ages. what does it actually give you these days?
<Phineas> popey,  right now lets see if ffmpeg will work now
<Phineas> popey,  E: Couldn't find package 4:0.6-2ubuntu3+medibuntu1
<popey> ali1234: aac encoding
<Phineas> popey,  humm thats fishy
<popey> Phineas: you pasted too much
<popey> you need the lib* bits from the start of the lines, not the bits on the right
<popey> so sudo apt-get install libavcodec-extra-52 libavdevice-extra-52 libavfilter-extra-1 libavformat-extra-52 libavutil-extra-50 libpostproc-extra-51 libswscale-extra-0
<popey> Phineas: ^^
<Phineas> popey,
<Phineas> popey,  E: Couldn't find package libavfilter-extra-1
<popey> so libavfilter-extra then press tab
<popey> it may have been updated
<popey> might be -2 now
<AlanBell> !info libavfilter-extra-1
<Phineas> popey,  libavfilter0              libavfilter-extra-0
<Phineas> libavfilter-dev           libavfilter-unstripped-0
<lubotu3> libavfilter-extra-1 (source: ffmpeg-extra): ffmpeg video filtering library. In component universe, is optional. Version 4:0.6-2ubuntu3 (maverick), package size 82 kB, installed size 200 kB
<AlanBell> 19:44 < popey> what version of ubuntu you running?
<kvarley> Is Â£40 for a wireless n (300 megabits per second) router reasonable?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> if it's decent brand
<kvarley> is edimax a decent brand?
<ali1234> never heard of it
<BigRedS> AFAIK, it's quite reasonable
<jacobw> edimax works well with Ubuntu
<BigRedS> It's a router in any case
<BigRedS> if it talks in ethernet, we're laughing
<jacobw> it'll work out of the box with newer Ubuntu releases, probably with the past two LTS releases I'd say
<jacobw> 300Mb/s ?! is than 802.11n + MIMO speeds?
<kvarley> I have no concerns with whether it'll work with linux - I have seen people say its a breeze via browser config
<kvarley> jacobw it's 801.11n - whats MIMO?
<BigRedS> kvarley: It's a router, so there's no OS compatability to speak of. I think jacobw read 'router' as 'dongle' or something
<Jibadeeha> just installed DockBarX - very impressed
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: MIMO = multiple input / multiple output
<MartijnVdS> it means it uses more than one antenna at a time to do cool magic to make the link faster
<kvarley> ah ok
<jacobw> yes, I did BigRedS, I've got an Edimax wireless USB adapter so that's what came to mind
<jacobw> is there a new UUPC on the way?
<popey> yes
<zleap> UUPC
<MartijnVdS> !uupc
<popey> !podcast
<lubotu3> Grab the lastest Ubuntu UK Podcast from http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
<zleap> ah
 * BigRedS finally emails daviey about mirroring that
<popey> :)
<BigRedS> which reminds me, that wiki page on mirroring is atrocious. can I edit it so it makes sense?
<popey> just email podcast@ubuntu-uk.org
<popey> any of us can do it
<popey> sure
<popey> it _is_ a wiki
<BigRedS> it says at teh top that it's immutable
<BigRedS> not that I went as far as trying logging in
<popey> O RLY?
<popey> thats why
<popey> you need to login
<BigRedS> ahh, fair enough
 * DJones points BigRedS The webdesigner at https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2010-December/001132.html
<BigRedS> DJones: BigRedS the webdesigner?
<BigRedS> Have you seen my website?
<BigRedS> Ahhh, developer. Still, all I know is Perl
<BigRedS> and hackish perl at that
<DJones> :)
 * popey pokes Mez with a stick
<markus_> #blitzbasic.de
<popey> wow
<brobostigon> markus_: moin, wie kann wir dir helfen ?
<popey> blitzbasic, thats a blast from the past
<popey> the old #blitzbasic was on irc.blitzed.org
<popey> dunno if it still is
<markus_> nabend
<brobostigon> popey: i see.
 * popey still has a copy of blitzbasic
<markus_> grade Xchat-gnome installiert. kennt jemand ein tutorial fÃ¼r den umgang mit irc? ^^"
<MartijnVdS> !deutsch
<lubotu3> In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
<markus_> thx
 * brobostigon grumbles at the adsl
 * BigRedS swears at dovecot again
<denny> http://youtu.be/WL5ud5_K-GY  # Doctor Who / Star Wars mash-up
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<brobostigon> o/
<MooDoo> popey: i still use blitzbasic 3d :)
<popey> !
<MooDoo> first time i saw blitxbasic was on the amiga :D
<popey> MooDoo: i kinda stopped using it when i switched to linux
<popey> maybe 9 years ago
<exobuzz> i never used blitz, but ive used amos before!
<popey> ahh amos
<popey> not used that for ~20 years
<exobuzz> im unsure how long ago it was, but it could be around the same :)
<popey> amazed blitz is still alive
<popey> hmm, maybe not that long ago
<popey> last diary log on blitzbasic.com is 26/06/2005
<popey> oh, thats me saying I dont use it
<exobuzz> :)
<popey> blimey, new version came out in august this year
<MooDoo> blitz3d was updated recently
<popey> bah, doesnt work on 64-bit
<popey> wheee
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S03E22  Long May It Wave - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/12/08/s03e22-long-may-it-wave/
<diplo> evening all
<BigRedS> g'morning diplo
<diplo> morning???
<diplo> :D
<BigRedS> There's a locale joke in there somewhere
<diplo> heh
<BigRedS> but mostly I refuse to acknowledge times of day that don't sound jolly
<diplo> evening is jolly, means im not at work
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<sprite> was this irc offline earlier today?
<sprite> oops wrong server
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Lord] SSH Sessions Timing Out? - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/12/08/ssh-sessions-timing-out/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ssh-sessions-timing-out
<BigRedS> I like that the Amazon kindle app add involves her switching from iPhone to android
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-09
<screen-x> morning :)
<jacobw> good morning screen-x :)
<screen-x> \o jacobw
<screen-x> another early person!
<jacobw> buses to catch..
<jacobw> i'd better get used to it, i've to got to start work at 7.30 next year
<screen-x> ouch
<screen-x> I'm sharing lifts with my wife who's doing early shifts, so I'm at my desk rather early..
<jacobw> you're already there ? :o
<screen-x> yah
<jacobw> is there a coffee machine ? :p
<screen-x> no, but I have a good supply of fruit tea :D
<jacobw> hmm yum
<screen-x> no o2 service here at the moment, normally its full HSPA
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> AlanBell: morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all.
<UndiFineD> good moaning
<MooDoo> morning
<rooks> hi guys, do you know of any good linux admin jobs, preferably ubuntu related, ideally on the outskirts of london?
<jpds> rooks: All the DCs are in the City/Docklands.
<rooks> jpds, any idea on how is job market regarding linux jobs around london? are there many good jobs, or are there lot of 'we only officially need linux admin for clusters, but you will also replace toner cartridges' around?
<jpds> rooks: No, but you're likely to find something on the Guardian or such.
<rooks> k, thx.
<screen-x> rooks: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs
<rooks> yay, thanks
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning popey
<screen-x> weird, my x session seems to be on vt8
<daubers> Morning
<screen-x> \o daubers
<bigcalm> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<dwatkins> screen-x: wierd indeed, sounds like it started a 2nd one
<screen-x> dwatkins: I did kill and restart gdm, but I expected it to restart on vt7.
<dwatkins> as would I, but perhaps it hadn't properly finished when the new session started
<screen-x> that is a possibility
 * daubers considers moving his laptop to matty
<daubers> s/matty/natty
<daubers> They still rebuilding python?
<daubers> Shoudl prolly wait till that's done
<BigRedS> That sounds substantially less exciting
<bigcalm> Why should WP not allow automatic upgrades when I'm using NAT?
<BigRedS> WP = wordpress?
<bigcalm> Yus
<bigcalm> PitA
<BigRedS> I've no idea. I've never had a situation where WP's automatic upgrade works
<bigcalm> Heh
<BigRedS> wget,unzip,mv has always worked for me, though
<bigcalm> It works if it's a direct connection
<andylockran> hey guys - is there a graphic equaliser plugin for pulse on ubuntu
<andylockran> to adjust freqs
<imexil> Hi.
<imexil> Anyone experienced the flood of "bad flagvector" warnings when starting applications (happened for OOo, pidgin, emacs, spellchecker) in 10.10?
<UndiFineD> imexil, whare would I see "bad flagvector"
<UndiFineD> where
<andylockran> I'm enjoying ipv6 :)
<imexil> in my case: I start pidgin in the terminal
<j0nr> hi folks
<MooDoo> howdy
<imexil> UndiFineD: or simpler just start $hunspell
<imexil> or aspell does the same "trick"
<jpds> andylockran: Other than gb.archive.u.c, have you found any other hosts enabled?
<UndiFineD> no sorry imexil
<UndiFineD> no warnings for me
<imexil> strange
<imexil> OK so at least it seems to have to do with my setip
<imexil> setup
<imexil> that helps already
<j0nr> I need to remote control anotrher ubuntu machine. I dont have access to the machine, I can easily instruct the other user to enable remote desktop, but I dont think i can easily get them to enable port forwarding on their router
<j0nr> is there a simpler solution, like logmein for ubuntu?
<UndiFineD> imexil, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/583911
<imexil> yes thatis the one I found. But the "workarounds" there didn't apply in my case
<imexil> i.e., I didn't have that dictionary installed but still got all those warnings
<UndiFineD> "It seems that myspell-en-za is the culprit"
<imexil> Yes but as I said, I don't have that dict (actually non of the myspell packages installed)
<imexil> I'm going to remove all spell packages and see what that brings
<imexil> oops, turns out I DO have that package ... strange I thought I checked that before ;)
<danfish> j0nr: have a look at gitso
<UndiFineD> hehe imexil
<imexil> j0nr: I use Teamviewer which is free for personal use and works cross platform like a charm. No setup required (like for gitso where you still need a ssh tunnel to get to the remote machine)
<Mez> popey: what's up?
 * kazade thinks Ubuntu should have a Nintendo Mii -style avatar system
<kazade> morning all
<ali1234> kazade: meego will probably have that
<ali1234> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1338
<kazade> ali1234, The reason I mention it is that I'm writing a multiplayer game, and it would be nice to be able to select an avatar for each player
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<kazade> I think I'll code it in by using the /home/user/.face avatars
<andylockran> jpds: I've accessed ipv6.google.com :)
<andylockran> jpds: and just waitng for my dns server to update as I've set my homepage to be ipv6 capable :p
<imexil> UndiFineD: OK looks like it that bug was the right indicator after all. The myspell dictionary for Norwegian is also broke / brakes any application that uses spell check
<UndiFineD> ok, so no more errors now ?
<imexil> no. since my language environment is set to no_XX any application having to do with some spell checking (ooo, editors, pidgin would have raised the flagvector errors)
<screen-x> hmm, just had a succession of emails from twitter about new spam followers, all "female" , with only a first name given.  odd.
 * Ng hrms at gnome's add printer dialog not showing printers that cups is broadcast advertising on the network
<jpds> Ng: Hmm.
<Ng> jpds: it sees the Xerox itself advertising itself, but not the queues in cups, very odd
<Ng> and really quite unhelpful!
<Mez> :( Just found out my car isn't coming for another 3 days
<imexil> UndiFineD: OK bug reporting time then :)
<UndiFineD> :D
 * daubers realises some of his functions have too many exit points :(
<kazade> Ubuntu-UK podcast time \o/
<j0nr> imexil: does teamviewer work ubuntu to ubuntu
<j0nr> ?
<j0nr> imexil: I looked at their site and there only seems to be a download for the viewer... what needs to be on the remote machine?
<daubers> j0nr: Yes it does
<popey> j0nr: the same software
<popey> the linux version is bundles with the WINE libraries, its not a native app
<popey> Mez: not your mirror :)
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy: hullo!
<JonTheNiceGuy> Hi Popey :)
<JonTheNiceGuy> Just listened to the latest UUPC
<JonTheNiceGuy> Has anyone bothered you yet about phone clients for Identi.ca?
<JonTheNiceGuy> (ps. hi all :) )
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy: no
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy: I have tried all of the ones available, they all suck
<popey> without exception
<JonTheNiceGuy> Have you tried Mustard recently?
<popey> mustard for iphone?
<JonTheNiceGuy> Ohhhh
<JonTheNiceGuy> I forgot you were a freedom hater ;)
 * davmor2 pins a notice to czajkowski back that says she now lives in England not the UK
<popey> indeed
<JonTheNiceGuy> Hmmm
<MooDoo> davmor2: she'll learn
<BigRedS> How can you live in England but not in the UK?
<JonTheNiceGuy> Is czajkowski UK based now? :)
<popey> indeed
<MooDoo> JonTheNiceGuy: yes
<JonTheNiceGuy> Oooooo
<BigRedS> Or am I missing the beginning of a joke?
<JonTheNiceGuy> :D
<popey> for addressing purposes i't "UK" not "England"
<popey> *it's
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy: yeah, she lives just round the corner from me
<JonTheNiceGuy> Nice :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski  Irish so you have to give her some leeway
<popey> I guess ;)
<JonTheNiceGuy> heh
<MooDoo> davmor2: well i suppose a little.....
<maco> popey: oops
<popey> JonTheNiceGuy: there also isnt a decent ipad identica client
<maco> i wrote "England" on holiday card envelopes
<davmor2> popey: your might be my international letter read ENGLAND and they get to me
<popey> maco: not like it wont get here
<maco> because i also wrote "Scotland" on the one for scotland...
<popey> davmor2: yeah, it works, but post codes are UK postcodes not England post codes
<popey> I am merely asserting that you're wrong in saying that czajkowski is wrong :)
<MooDoo> popey: czajkowski is always wrong ;)
 * screen-x stands well back
<MooDoo> i think we need a new #blameczajkowski
<davmor2> popey: Thats because the post code service cover Scotland and Wales as well as England, My postal Country is still England,  England is where I live, it is the rugby, football team I support in international competitions, and is written on my Birth Certificate.  Oh and I'm English not UKish :P
<popey> No, you're british
<popey> no matter what you think
<MooDoo> i want to be english....
<popey> you can call yourself whatever you like, I doubt anyone cares :)
<czajkowski> JonTheNiceGuy: yup moved over here 5 weeks ago
<czajkowski> davmor2: MooDoo too busy to deal with ye two today.
 * maco is jealous
<screen-x> maco: ?
<maco> im in the states. i wanna move to the uk too!
<MooDoo> maco: why? lol
<screen-x> why?
<maco> haha are you two reading each others' minds?
<MooDoo> lol it happens
<screen-x> yeah, we are one
<maco> have wanted to since i visited 10 years ago
<davmor2> popey: London is the capital city of what country?
<MooDoo> maco: i'm the same about the states :D
<Mez> popey: then what ?
<popey> Mez: your mirror is down
<andylockran> 7 years back luck
<andylockran> bad*
<Mez> popey: no, it's not - Daviey's lazy :)
<popey> heh
 * BigRedS boots into natty
<Mez> popey: IP has changed. 66->97
<Mez> popey: but the new place has everything awaiting and ready to be set up
<maco> MooDoo: if you can afford it, dc is a great place to live. can walk most places and good public transit (northern virginia's buses seem to be always on time. dc's can run a bit behind, but at every-8-minutes intervals they cant get too far off)
<Daviey> Mez: Ah, yes... your old mirror is the one you FAILED to upgrade between releases, so threw it away?
<Mez> Daviey: I didn't fail - the memory limit failed :D
<Mez> OOM on an upgrade is painful :)
<MooDoo> maco: well i went to NYC and loved it, SF within a couple of years i hope
<popey> is your vps a 16K spectrum?
<BigRedS> I know it's oversaid, but I can really see where the "it's an OSX copy" comments come from
<andylockran> lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<Mez> popey: yes.
<popey> MooDoo: the bits round the edge of the USA are nice
<Daviey> popey: like Canada?
<popey> http://popey.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc  webcamtastic
<popey> hahah Daviey
<andylockran> Mexico
<popey> cuba
<andylockran> Cuba
<popey> :S
<andylockran> :P
<andylockran> argh
<andylockran> popefever
<screen-x> andylockran: you are starstruck by the presence of popey?
<popey> http://popey.blip.tv/file/4483981/ boringcam is boring
<maco> there's one place in the US thats inland that i would recommend to outdoors-lovers:  Denver
<maco> easy access to beautiful mountains and canyons for all the hiking, skiing, and biking you want
<popey> i read canyons as crayons
<maco> haha
 * screen-x plays John Denver
<Mez> We should all go hiuking in a crayon.
<BigRedS> Skitt's Law :)
 * Mez bagsies Electric Lime
<screen-x> BigRedS: hadn't seen that before.
<BigRedS> screen-x: Ah, I fall prey to it approximately fortnightly :(
<maco> denver is a little oasis of liberal-by-usa-standards (which, from what i understand is about equiv to tories, but anyway...) in the middle of the us
<popey> heh
<popey> the whole 'liberal/socialism is bad' skit in the USA has is quite odd
<maco> i was talking to Riddell once and asked what party there would be where my mum would fit, and he said there isnt one
<screen-x> BigRedS: most of my irc lines contain typos!
<maco> i was like "but one of them is named conservative. what about them? or the bnp?"   and Riddell said the tories are like the democrats and i went O_O
<maco> (yes, i know what the bnp is known for...)
<JonTheNiceGuy> maco, There was a "answer these questions to see which party you'd vote for" thing online a while back.
<popey> oh yeah
<maco> i attempted to go through the Political Compass thing answering how i thought she would
<BigRedS> there were a few, I could never get two of them to agree for me
<JonTheNiceGuy> :D
<BigRedS> I should've voted for some spread of Tory, Labour, Green and BNP IIRC
<JonTheNiceGuy> BigRedS, I always wondered whether some of them had a particular slant :)
<BigRedS> JonTheNiceGuy: The Torygraph one wanted me to vote Labour, which I found peculiar
<JonTheNiceGuy> :D
<maco> heh i was asked the other day "and just WHY are you reading the torygraph, hmm?"  ...first id ever heard that. i answered "because google said so"  (it was just a weather report)
 * BigRedS wants tab-completion for his aliases
 * screen-x wants telepathic sentence completion
<maco> wahhh politicalcompass.com is now domain name squatted
<BigRedS> maco: .org I thought it was?
<maco> oh
<dwatkins> BigRedS: I have tab-complete for aliases in BSD's bash
<JonTheNiceGuy> That'd be because it's .org ;)
<BigRedS> rearrange those words into a coherent sentence :)
<maco> BigRedS: you win
<JonTheNiceGuy> BigRedS is yoda channelling, he is.
<JonTheNiceGuy> s/he is/they are/
<dwatkins> GNU bash, version 3.2.39, BigRedS
<JonTheNiceGuy> (Gender non-specific... sorry)
<BigRedS> dwatkins: I'm on Linux's zsh...
<dwatkins> BigRedS: that would be why, then
<BigRedS> JonTheNiceGuy: ah, I wondered if i'd become a plural :)
<screen-x> JonTheNiceGuy: I'm  pretty sure the cookie monster is male
 * maco blinks at the movement of Labour over time on http://politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010
<BigRedS> maco: Nationalist Fascism's where it's at apparently
<BigRedS> and, yeah, I am male, But I don't mind being plural :)
<JonTheNiceGuy> BigRedS, Good to know, for the future D:
<JonTheNiceGuy> :D even
<daubers> Oooh, snow
<JonTheNiceGuy> DAMN YOU KEYBOARD! KNOW WHICH KEYS I'M TRYING TO PRESS AND THE ORDER I MEANT TO PRESS THEM IN!!
<JonTheNiceGuy> :)
<BigRedS> I'd skip the keyboard step, really. Just have your IRC client know the meaning you intend to get across
<JonTheNiceGuy> My only worry is at, like, 2am
<BigRedS> Though I think zsh tab-completing aliases is more likely to happen :)
<JonTheNiceGuy> and then... *shudder*
<maco> BigRedS: all the major candidates in the us 2008 chart are in that quadrant too though. except the one i voted for..because i didnt vote major party
<JonTheNiceGuy> Somewhat interestingly, I just re-did my political compass survey, and I'm in about the same place as The Dalai Lama :)
<_H> hi this is urgent: ubuntu desktop and push email how?
<screen-x> _H: push = imap idle, or exchange?
<tugrik> not that urgent then ;)
<_H> I don't know
<JonTheNiceGuy> _H what do you have so far?
<maco> JonTheNiceGuy: thats where i am
<Mez> _H: What do you mean by "push email"?
<_H> usually used via iphone or blackberry
<JonTheNiceGuy> _H what's the domain name for the e-mail provider?
<screen-x> iphones are capable of both those types.
<JonTheNiceGuy> Or is it business use?
<_H> edinburgh.gov.uk
<Mez> _H: then in that sense, push email is simply a mobile telephone service.
<JonTheNiceGuy> Probably exchange then.
<_H> mail.edinburgh.gov.uk
<Mez> _H: So, I don't think the push bit here is relevant. You just need to access your email
<screen-x> owa, definitely outlook..
<screen-x> _H: depends how your exchange server is setup, you can probalby use any imap client, but I think evolution has some capability for talking to exchange natively.
<JonTheNiceGuy> screen-x, I think it used to be called the Ximian Connector
<dwatkins> _H: can you not just use the web-interface?
<BigRedS> screen-x: MS produced a whole load of bumpf aimed at Exchange admins explaining how IMAP was inherently insecure and should be disabled on Exchange servers. I don't know how many fell for it, but most Exchange servers I've seen don't do IMAP.
<BigRedS> If they're expecting everyone to connect from Outlook or an iPhone, they don't need to
<screen-x> BigRedSs: :(
<Darael> _H: Evolution can connect to an Exchange server given only the OWA address.  If you can - and it appears you can - then Evolution can connect fine.
<_H> you lost me at "Exchange server given only the OWA address.  If you can - and it appears you can - then Evolution can connect fine."
<BigRedS> _H: OWA = Outlook Web Access
<Darael> Ah.
<BigRedS> The webmail interface to Exchange
<Darael> If you try to set up an account in Evo of type "exchange", it will ask for the webmail interface address.
<kazade> does anyone know of a simple graphical utility that is equivalent to the "mail" command for reading email?
<JonTheNiceGuy> kazade, How simple are you talking about? Could you not start mail in an xterm window?
<kazade> I have a server with a LOT of unread email and I can't figure out how to use the "mail" command to quickly read it all
<screen-x> kazade: mutt
<BigRedS> You can point most graphical mail clients at a Maildir or mbox file, if that's what you're after?
<screen-x> its not very graphical, but its great for mass processing mail.
<kazade> screen-x, perfect thanks
<kazade> BigRedS, I wanted something really lightweight, but less lightweight than "mail" :)
<bigcalm> popey: what does your Joggler run?
<popey> whatever I put on the usb stick :0
<bigcalm> What have you liked so far?
<bigcalm> And does one need a usb hub to add a keyboard, or is the onscreen one enough?
<exobuzz> new joggler distribution (related to ubuntu so not completely offtopic) http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/ ;-)
<exobuzz> bigcalm, keyboard is useful. can get some nice small wireless ones that work well
<exobuzz> im using a laptop size one
<exobuzz> you can get much smaller/compact though
<exobuzz> onscreen keyboard is ok if you dont want to do much customisation etc and just do basic stuff
<exobuzz> sorry. wasnt my question. i butted in..
<BigRedS> kazade: Ah, I thought you might already have a mail client knocking around
<kazade> BigRedS, nah, not on this server
<kazade> If I send an email to user@host and host is running postfix, should the user receive it - or do I have to configure postfix for that?
<BigRedS> kazade: I think postfix defaults to delivering to ~/Maildir
<BigRedS> I think. It's been a long time since I last saw a default postfix. But it definitely puts mail to existing users somewhere under their ~
<kazade> anyone know much about reverse dns?
<JonTheNiceGuy> kazade, what are you trying to find out?
<kazade> well..
<screen-x> kazade: only that it's a pain with cidr
<kazade> I've got some domains which are handled by a domain registrar (e.g. using their DNS server)
<kazade> and I have a set of servers in a server farm which are allocated a range of ips
<kazade> if I want to set up a reverse dns record, do I have to install a DNS server on the machine just to host the PTR record?
<BigRedS> whoever is authoritative for that IP address needs to hold the record
<BigRedS> or delegate it to your DNS server
<kazade> BigRedS, if I just set up a DNS server at the ip address that serves a PTR record would that work?
<BigRedS> kazade: no, people would need to know to ask your server for the ptr address
<BigRedS> you need to ask whoever assigned you the IP address to have your server authoritative for that IP address (or possibly block)
<BigRedS> or, more likely, have them slave the records off your machine. Or just set it to whatever you require
<kazade> ok , see in the past we had a Win2k dns server running and there were ptr records in there. But we've just moved the records back to the registrar (as we are trying to move to the "cloud")
<kazade> just wondering if reverse dns ever worked..
<BigRedS> it's likely it didn't
<BigRedS> unless the things that needed it were specifically requesting from that 2k server
<kazade> BigRedS, ok, thanks - I'm contacting the hosting company
<screen-x> Anyone know how to setup a slave kdc? I'm attempting to create a stash file with, "kdb5_util stash" which returns "kdb5_util: No such file or directory while initializing database" The obvious response would be create a new database, but I want this to be a slave to an existing master, rather than a new master KDC.
<andylockran> hey guys - anyone use terminator
<andylockran> ctrl+shift+F for searching scrollback doesn't appear to work
<screen-x> I did for a very brief time, then screen with v-splits arrived :D
<danfish> \o/ angry birds has released a seasonal special edition - more levels
<zleap> any idfea where the option to add a signatgure to an e-mail in thunderbird has now been hidden
<zleap> i can't find it
<BigRedS> it's in server setup isn't it?
<BigRedS> somewhere daft like the smtp server config
<BigRedS> edit->account settings->[pick account]->composition
<zleap> well that has a tick box to include one
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<screen-x> found my kdc problem, creating a database != creating a new realm. Slave KDCs need an empty database to store slave data in.
<zleap> ok they haver moved it to the account settings bit
<zleap> but yeah they have moved it, there is a box to enter your own text under that there is the box to choose a file
<zleap> BigRedS, thanks
<X3N> oh, it was running
<Mez>  /j #cyanogenmod
<jpds> Mez: Sure.
<dwatkins> ooh, I dind't know there was a channel for that here, thanks Mez
 * dwatkins thought the official cyanogen channel was on another network
<bigcalm> I thought so as well
 * dwatkins notes he has no voice on it
<Mez> Nah, it's on here - and I didn't mean to type that here.
<Mez> Fail at putting spaces in.
<Mez> I'm just hoping that that channel will explode when gingerbread releases :D
 * dwatkins realises he hadn't identified with nickserv and does so
<dwatkins> yeah, most likely it will, Mez
<Mez> hence the hilights :D
 * MartijnVdS waits for the official gbread for Nexus One
<Mez> MartijnVdS: that's what I'm waiting for too :D
<MartijnVdS> Mez: I've re-flashed my N1 with the US factory firmware (instead of the EU firmware, which makes you wait for Vodafone to ack updates)
<MartijnVdS> so I'm on 2.2.1 already now :)
<Mez> MartijnVdS: Mine was on EU (non voda) firmware (from Google directly).
<Mez> It's currently on cyanogen 6.10 (2.2.1)
<Mez> and it'll be going to stock gbread as soon as that's out
<Mez> (possibly before - as I get "Press" OTAs)
<bigcalm> I still can't download the google apps with rom manager when selecting 6.1
<bigcalm> I'm stuck on RC2 forever more
<Mez> bigcalm: Known bug - download 6.1 - install, go back into ROM Manager, and download the apps seperately.
<bigcalm> Mez: cheers
<Mez> bigcalm: no worries - I did it myself.
<bigcalm> What's so good about stock gingerbread?
<MartijnVdS> it's stock.. you get OTA updates
<bigcalm> And this is better than Cynaogenmod?
<MartijnVdS> imho it is
<MartijnVdS> Cyanogen has WAY too many toggles and switches and bad defaults imho
<bigcalm> Works exceedingly well on my N1
<MartijnVdS> oh sure it works.. but the notification bar is al weird (slide down the top bar)
<MartijnVdS> and it asks for a size when adding widgets (why?!)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: does that stock image work on the htc desire?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: I don't know
<Mez> MartijnVdS: it asks for a size, because you can (in theory) change the amount of grid points on your desktop.
<Mez> So if you changed it to have 8 columns - you'd probably want a widget that's meant to fill your screen to be 8 wide, not 4
<MartijnVdS> it's still annoying :)
<Mez> MartijnVdS: I personally use Cyanogen - but I'm quite happy with using Stock aswell (though, There are some tweaks in Cyanogen that make me like it more)
<MartijnVdS> Mez: as long as it doesn't have Sense... ;)
<bigcalm> I like having different colour notifications for each part of the system
<Mez> MartijnVdS: oh, yes.
<Mez> MartijnVdS: I will not use a phone that has SenseUI?
<MartijnVdS> I won't either
<bigcalm> I gave my GF my Wildfire when I renewed my t-mobile contract. The phone is cute but the SenseUI is horrible
<Mez> sense is the biggest POS I've seen
<Mez> I do like their clock widget though.
<Mez> But that's it.
<bigcalm> I don't think my GF will let me mod the phone
<Mez> bigcalm: is it your phone? :P
<bigcalm> Technically...
<bigcalm> Mez: women can be picky
<Mez> bigcalm: why does she have any say over what's on your phone.
<Mez> bigcalm: It'd be like her saying "You have to use Windows"
<bigcalm> Mez: I gave her the phone as I didn't need it
<directhex> i like sense
<Flashtek> i like sense ui
<directhex> i miss much of sense, using villainrom
<Mez> bigcalm: oh, then that's a fair point.
<directhex> slow though
 * Mez slaps directhex and Flashtek 
<Flashtek> personal preference..
<Mez> Go on guys, run quadrant :D Lets see your scores :D
<Flashtek> what ?
<Mez> Quadrant - Android Benchmark :D
<Flashtek> oh, pissing contest..
<Mez> Flashtek: ePeen :D
<Flashtek> lol
<Flashtek> oh, this is the one that will not run..
<Flashtek> lack of stensil buffer
<Flashtek> I did look in to a few roms, but never had any success...
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> My N1 scored 1286: less than standard N1 with 2.2
<bigcalm> Unless I'm reading it wrong
<Flashtek> Mez: what ROM would you recommend ?
<Mez> Flashtek: CyanogenMod if it's available for your handset
<Flashtek> Wildfire
<Flashtek> does look like its available
<Mez> Experimental though
<Mez> http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/files/category/34-htc-wildfire/
<Flashtek> question is, how do I use it..?
<Mez> Flashtek: is your phone rooted?
 * BigRedS wants cyanogen for Galaxy :(
<Mez> BigRedS: experimental avail;able
<BigRedS> Flashtek: there's normally pretty good HowTos on the cyanogenmod forums
<BigRedS> Mez: O RLY? when did that happen?
<Mez> BigRedS: ah... lol - it looked like there was
<Mez> but it was just a link to a "no files to display"
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> Actually, I'm now tending towards wanting a quite vanilla android for it
<BigRedS> just to see what it's like
 * Flashtek downloads the rom zip file..
<Azelphur> grr, back and forward on chrome seems to be broken since the most recent update
<dwatkins> that's pretty fundamental, Azelphur
<Azelphur> indeed
<dwatkins> beta, I assume
<Azelphur> dwatkins: it skips loads of pages
<Azelphur> so like I go to google, do a search, click images, click the image, then press back
<Azelphur> I end up back at the google homepage before I even did the search
<Azelphur> so it does like 4 jumps back instead of 1
<Azelphur> keeps doing it, too.
<dwatkins> I assume it's not just google images being wierd
<Azelphur> yea
<dwatkins> What chrome version, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> 8.0.552.215 (67652)
<dwatkins> I'm running 8.0.552.215 (Official Build 67652) on windows 7, so I can only assume this is a linux-specific problem
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I assume you've rebooted, tried another user etc.
<Azelphur> nope
<dwatkins> rebooted in terms of a possible problem with the keyboard driver etc.
<dwatkins> sorry, mouse driver
<dwatkins> worth trying it in another X session, I guess
<ali1234> Azelphur: it's because the new google images works differently
<ali1234> it's all html5 now, as a result back doesn't work properly
<dwatkins> so it is google images being wierd ;-)
 * dwatkins was implying that it might be worth checking other websites
<Azelphur> ali1234: fun
<ali1234> the crazy thing about the new google images is they keep turning it on and off, it's really weird
<ali1234> maybe it's a cunning piece of psychology to make people not complain about the new UI, like they always do
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> just confuse the crap out of everyone by turning it on and off, then when you turn it on permanently everyone will not even notice
<gord> hrm? it turns "off" for you?
<BigRedS> Is 9.04 Grub1 or Grub2 by default?
 * BigRedS googles
<gord> should be grub 1 i think
<BigRedS> Ah, I can have 8.04. That'll do
<diplo> utoh, anonymous hitting amazon now :D
<dwatkins> why is that a good thing, diplo?
<diplo> Did i say it was a good thing
<dwatkins> you implied as much with your smile, diplo
<diplo> I thought they would be the least likely to go down with there infrastructure
<dwatkins> sorry if I misinterpretted
<dwatkins> yeah, true
<diplo> yer seem to have added that on the end
<diplo> Seems to be up and down
<diplo> .com that is
<diplo> But on the flip side, someone is taking down anonops site
<andylockran> weird.
<jacobw> afternoon :)
<jacobw> just got a new acer timeline, vista installation is AWFUL
<BigRedS> I had my first go on Windows 7 the other day
<BigRedS> it's not that bad, from what littel I did with it
<jacobw> resolution is wrong, the default applications aren't loaded properly
<jacobw> bleh.
<jacobw> yeah, Windows 7 isn't bad at all
<jpds> BigRedS: Now try Solaris.
<jacobw> just takes some getting used to
<BigRedS> still frustrated by OS installs that don't let me use the PC while they're doing it, though
<BigRedS> jpds: I did, a while ago. Quite liked it.
<BigRedS> but that doesn't do games properly either
<dwatkins> I am surprised every time I discover a windows application which is still only available as a 32-bit version
<jacobw> that would be most of them wouldn't it dwatkins?
<dwatkins> jacobw: yes, a vast majority of the software I use
<jacobw> crappy java is the thing that really gets my goat :(
<dwatkins> there isn't even a 64-bit version of Apache for windows.
<jacobw_> [with]
<gord> honestly for windows the 32/64bit thing just adds complication, they don't have the nice software system we do, so most people just go for releasing 32 bit versions unless the software really really needs 64bit
<andylockran> guys - I want a server to constantly stream a random playlist - and for clients to tune in/tune out with a desktop client - can anyone recommend a way to do this?
<andylockran> i.e. for a work rardio station
<gord> andylockran, icecast
<jacobw> ghosty
<andylockran> gord: ta
<jacobw> my ADSL is running at ~1Mb/s this afternoon
<jacobw> unfortunately reseting it to clear the ADSL establishment isn't working as it usually does
<gord> 1mbit sucks :( not quite enough to do anything well
<bigcalm> Have you offered it a cuppa tea?
<gord> i find 2/3 mbit is fine for most things, but 1mbit is infuriating
<jacobw> well, i've just taken delivery of a new laptop for a client, and discovered that i don't have an ubuntu lucid or maverick iso on my machine, so i'm trying to download the maverick iso
<jacobw> i'm used to this taking ~20 minutes as opposed to 90 minutes
<X3N> how do I update my git branch against master?
<ali1234> git fetch origin; git merge origin/master
<ali1234> or just git pull
<andylockran> gord: it's not just simple is it :(
<Phineas> i have returned
<gord> andylockran, nope
<Phineas> merry xmas everyone
<freesitebuilder> started my Christmas shopping today :)
<Phineas> its my birthday soon (5 days to go)
<freesitebuilder> so do you miss out and only get one set of presents?
<Phineas> freesitebuilder,  nope i get all of my xmas and birthday prezzies
<Flashtek> Phineas: mine in sat
<Flashtek> Phineas: how old will you be ?
<Phineas> Flashtek,  in sat?
<Flashtek> *on
<Phineas> Flashtek,  i will be 11
<Flashtek> oohh...
<Flashtek> nearly 1/3 of my age
<MooDoo> Flashtek: nearly a quarter of mine, well in 2/3 years :)
<Flashtek> :D
<Flashtek> i dont feel so old any more
<MooDoo> lol
<bigcalm> Flashtek: early 30s isn't old
 * jacobw wonders how old bigcalm is ;)
<bigcalm> 31
 * dwatkins is 33
<X3N> thanks ali1234
<Phineas> bigcalm,  nice nick?
<Phineas> bigcalm,  where did you get your nick from?
<bigcalm> Morcheeba album
<Phineas> bigcalm,  who?
<bigcalm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morcheeba
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you know, I'd never put that together :-/
<bigcalm> Pendulum: some time ago I needed a new nick. I had the album CD on my desk and went with that
<Pendulum> hah
<bigcalm> Though my fave. track off of that album is The Sea
<Pendulum> bigcalm: I admittedly didn't know Morcheeba at all until I was visiting some mates in the UK a few years ago and got brought along to a concert :)
<bigcalm> Cool
<bigcalm> What do you think?
<Pendulum> I had fun and bought albums :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<Pendulum> and a vest (which I have somewhere and in about 10 more lbs it'll fit again \o/)
<bigcalm> Awww, heh
<Phineas> if only i could get some phineas and ferb pjs in my size
<Phineas> convert flv into mp3 (ffmpeg) how do i do thi?
<Phineas> anyone?
<bigcalm> Phineas: do you keep irc logs?
<Phineas> bigcalm,  yes
<bigcalm> Phineas: then I suggest that you read yesterday's log when you asked the same question and people gave you information on how to do it
<Phineas> bigcalm,  don't have a log from then
<Phineas> :(
<bigcalm> Phineas: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/12/08/%23ubuntu-uk.html
<Phineas> bigcalm,  it worked i think, i now have an .aac
<Phineas> bigcalm,  which worked
<bigcalm> Good for you
<Phineas> is it ok to have a very slight whistleing nois from laptop fans
<Phineas> ?
<AlanBell> Phineas: not sure if you realise, but we can't hear it
<Phineas> AlanBell,  i know that
<daubers> Working late sucks
<jpds> daubers: "Sooner is better than later".
<daubers> jpds: You wha?
<jpds> daubers: Principal from http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0596007833/ .
<Phineas> bye
<daubers> jpds: I see.... Just got a release deadline tomorrow so polishing a few UI issue. UI stuff takes _forever_ to get right
<MonsterKiller> whats the package called to install mysql? it will be for web server and after i will install phpmyadmin.
<MonsterKiller> is it just 'mysql' ?
<MonsterKiller> as, mysql-server
<Nafallo> !info mysql-server
<lubotu3> mysql-server (source: mysql-5.1): MySQL database server (metapackage depending on the latest version). In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.49-1ubuntu8.1 (maverick), package size 59 kB, installed size 92 kB
<Nafallo> ^-- MonsterKiller
<Nafallo> anyone in here with a full uupc mirror?
<Nafallo> I need to know how big it is
<popey> 6.9G    /srv/uk-lo-0.static.podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<Nafallo> popey: ta.
<popey> np
<Nafallo> now... that's interesting. the guest think it has 2GB, but the host have given it 10GB :-P
<Nafallo> popey: what's the growth rate like?
<Nafallo> popey: no need to buy a SAN for it, right?
<popey> well, split that over 3 seasons
<Nafallo> there is an "extras" as well :-)
<popey> so 2.3 per season,
<popey> extras is tiny
<popey> so it'll be ~9.2GB this time next year
<Nafallo> okidoki
<Nafallo> ta popey :-)
<Nafallo> so I have at least a year of growth on this one \o/
<Nafallo> except I have no idea how I've managed to partition this host.
<Nafallo> I almost feel a bit retarded.
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> Hullo!
<AlanBell> it is website hack day tomorrow
<AlanBell> and I don't mean paypal mastercard and visa
<daubers> AlanBell: All ready with the jobs to dish out?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you mean the UK government? 8-)
<AlanBell> nope
<AlanBell> and I am out all morning too
<AlanBell> but don't let that stop anyone
<daubers> I'm not even home yet :(
<daubers> Might try and do some from a coffee shop in reading in the afternoon
<MartijnVdS> "Write code as though the person who maintains it after you is a homicidal maniac who knows where you live."
<AlanBell> but I have no idea where you live
<BigRedS> Don't tell them that!
<AlanBell> if you go here http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/wp-login.php?action=register
<AlanBell> you should be able to register as a subscriber
<AlanBell> then you can be bumped up to author/editor/hacker/whatever as needed
<daubers> \o/
<daubers> AlanBell: Is there a list of stuff that needs to be done?
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/website
<diwanescu> test!
<MartijnVdS> it works
<diwanescu> yay :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Scott James Remnant] Not a WordPress Certified Engineer - http://www.netsplit.com/2010/12/09/not-a-wordpress-certified-engineer/
<AlanBell> best not get SJR involved tomorrow then :)
<derfred> and again test!
<AlanBell> still not broken derfred
<derfred> oh no ;)
<daubers> !oops
<daubers> Now it's broken
<coffeebean8888> who has snow?
 * Flashtek checks
<Flashtek> I have pie, does that count ?
<coffeebean8888> yes
<anomnomnom> #OperationPayback
<coffeebean8888> what kind of pie is it white?
<Flashtek> cream pie
<coffeebean8888> does nobody speak?
<Flashtek> no, never
<coffeebean8888> pie eater
<coffeebean8888> whats new on ubuntu?
<jacobw> unity brings divisions within Ubuntu coffeebean8888
<jacobw> that is whats new in Ubuntu :d
<jacobw> er.. :D even
<MonsterKiller> Hey. I dont know if anyone can help. A few things i had one ubuntu server i had used to auto-start when the vps did but some of them no longer do.
<BigRedS> MonsterKiller: how did you configure them to autostart?
<BigRedS> and did you change anything else when they stopped working? Upgrading things or something?
<MonsterKiller> sudo update-rc.d <what ever> defaults
<MonsterKiller> BigRedS, all that heppened was it crashed one day
<MonsterKiller> after that some just didnt start
<MonsterKiller> i had to start them manually
<MonsterKiller> happend*
<MonsterKiller> happened*
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MonsterKiller> :O apache2 ninja'd its way onto my VPS even though i have lighthttpd
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<BigRedS> MonsterKiller: peculiar, I've no idea...
<MonsterKiller> how would i get rid of apache2? i tried apt-get remove apache / apache2 but it said it wasnt installed. i dont even know how it got installed
<BigRedS> how do you know it is installed?
<MonsterKiller> becuase it ran when i started my vps
<Flashtek> perhaps it's not installed by dpkg
<BigRedS> what said it ran? Is there an apache in /usr/local/bin or /opt/? Does anyone else have access to it?
<MonsterKiller> ps -aux said it ran xD
<MonsterKiller> there is /etc/apache2
<BigRedS> that is weird
<MonsterKiller> its not in /usr/local.bin though
<MonsterKiller> local/bin*
<MonsterKiller> whats the best way to get rid of it? i really dont want it there since i have lighthttpd
<andylockran> howdy all
<andylockran> MonsterKiller: aptitude purge apache2 ?
<andylockran> just about to head home having installed a new router in the office
<andylockran> we've been having weird issues with our network connection over the past few weeks
<andylockran> anyone recommend a way of monitoring the connection overnight?
<andylockran> put it under a little bit of load -but not more than a few gigs over the course of the next 10 hours
<brobostigon> evening all.
<jacobw> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11954333
<bigcalm> popey: ping
<brobostigon> just gave my mum my second swype beta install, lets see what she thinks.
<daubers> Woot!
<daubers> Home time!
<brobostigon> :)
<Paul2> is there a #ubuntu focusing on wubi/can anyone do 10.10 with wubi?
<Paul2> nevermind sorted :)
<organnyx> join#OperationPayback
<Danawar2> man i just let one of my friends on my ssh
<Danawar2> and he did cat /dev/zero | gzip > /dev/hda1 =[
<dutchie> and this is why root shells are evil
<mgdm> Danawar2: that was particularly nasty
<mgdm> it might be recoverable, though
<Danawar2> limited it to 1gb
<Danawar2> so just slowed the machine down
<ali1234> what filesystem?
<Danawar2> i just couldnt believe that just a user could do that
<Danawar2> ext3 i think
<dutchie> really, a user shell?
<dutchie> wow
<mgdm> err
<ali1234> probably recoverable from the backup superblocks then
<mgdm> if it's a user shell, he won't have been able to do the write
<dutchie> that's what i thought...
<Danawar2> he wrote it into tmp
<dutchie> also, what's the point gzipping zeroes? ;)
<mgdm> Oh, so he just filled up the filesystem?
<mgdm> that's not what the commadn you wrote did
<Danawar2> sorrry
<Danawar2> pasted the wrong one
<Danawar2> dd if=/dev/zero of=file1G.tmp bs=1M count=1024
<Danawar2> was the one i think he used
<ali1234> nothing special about that, it will just create a 1gb file of zeros
<Danawar2> yeee
<Danawar2> was annoying =[
<brobostigon> nos da all.
<ali1234> turn on disk quotas or something...
<chattr_> check out /etc/security/limits.conf
<n1md4> Evening all.  Is anyone using Ubuntu Light?  Only available by OEM due to its customised nature!  I'd like it on an Eee 900 as the full unity version is a bit slow ... anyone heard anything about this?
<Danawar2> chattr_: Thanks
<n1md4> Oooo 40 seconds before GT5 finishes installing (brb!)
<tugrik> hi - anyone here use tomoyo?
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-10
<Mez> Sucks. Got woken up cause there was a burst pipe downstairs.
<Mez> Cold and wet now
 * BigRedS would've slept through it
<BigRedS> In fact, I should really be sleeping now, come to think o fit
 * BigRedS goes to bed
<Mez> BigRedS: THEY CAME AND KNOCKED MY DOOR!
<Mez> damn caps
<gord|afk> downloading the tron legacy album on ubuntu one, i love u1 -_-
<gord> also, turns out i set myself afk on the wrong server hours ago but only just noticed \o/
<ooo_> join #loic
<screen-x> morning :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<MooDoo> hello all
<exobuzz> as this channel is not for political content but ubuntu, i wish there was an ubuntu tool, that allowed me to punch the government and the police in the face..
<exobuzz> thanks.. cary on
<exobuzz> +r
<screen-x> morning exobuzz
<screen-x> exobuzz: you can use any standard web browser for issuing remote punches, the problem is installing remote-punch-daemon in a location near enough to the target.
<screen-x> and in other news, I reported a bug.
<screen-x> bug 688464
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 688464 in krb5 (Ubuntu) "Wrong default path for kpropd.acl in kpropd man page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688464
<exobuzz> screen-x, haha thanks :)
<exobuzz> screen-x, i believe a remote punch daemon was unsuccessfully installed into the princes car yesterday although a window got slightly cracked.. bbc news is busy crying about it on his behalf currently.
<exobuzz> because the most important thing about yesterday is this. and nothing else happened.
<MooDoo> what happened yesterday [he says crawling out his bubble]
<screen-x> hmm, I can't get to bbc new from here, I think I killed in /etc/hosts in a last ditch attempt at some productivity.
<exobuzz> t'internet
<MooDoo> i'm guessing i missed something yesterday then, suppose i better read the news
<exobuzz> the news missed the policeman i saw in the background during a news report where he pushed a peaceful protester violently out the way even before any of the stuff really started. it also missed everything the police did but saw lots of violent students making trouble. it also saw the poor prince, going out to the variety performance have a window slightly broken.. the news also has seen how bad the internet is to allow recent ddos attacks and no
<exobuzz> w it will need more restrictions. the news has spoken
<MooDoo> ah nothing interesting then ;)
<exobuzz> :)
<dogmatic69> i am having problems uploading files to my server
<screen-x> 27k tuition fees + 9k living costs, I don't think the uni is worth 36k debt to most people.
<dogmatic69> ive tried all sorts and i cant get it right
<screen-x> dogmatic69: ubuntu server?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> [public_html dev] $ sudo chmod 755 views/themed/ -vR
<dogmatic69> mode of `views/themed/' changed to 0755 (rwxr-xr-x)
<exobuzz> dogmatic69, your server has been disabled by the government as you are an unlawful dissident .. or its some other problem
<screen-x> dogmatic69: upload via http?
<dogmatic69> no
<dogmatic69> ssh / ftp whatever
<screen-x> dogmatic69: ubuntu client?
<exobuzz> screen-x, but for those that can afford it, there will be plenty of space at the uni ;-)
<boeheid> im bored
<screen-x> boeheid: write me an uber ldap/kerberos identity management webinterface, thanks.
<dogmatic69> screen-x: ubuntu 10.10x64 both machines and it was working 5 min ago
<exobuzz> anyway. im going to rest now. just angry at the crap bbc news reporting about yesterday.. incredibly one sided.. which seems in recent years to be the case.. sad.
<dogmatic69> i deleted the folder, created a new one and tried to upload stuff
<boeheid> screen-x i already did
<screen-x> boeheid: linky?
<boeheid> exo dont watch bbc then, they are nazi
<exobuzz> they are.
<exobuzz> i never thought i would get a more balanced view from RT!
<boeheid> TV licence is a farce
<dogmatic69> :/
 * MooDoo loves reading stuff in here
<exobuzz> that too
<boeheid> idiots
<screen-x> dogmatic69: are you using scp? do you get any errors?
<dogmatic69> scp?
<boeheid> smart people dont pay it
<exobuzz> mines up for non renewal this year i think. **ck em
<boeheid> you actually paid? lol what a n00b
<MooDoo> oooooo can i use the !offtopic
<exobuzz> ill unplug it .. no law broken. its all crap anyway
<exobuzz> yeh i know
<MartijnVdS> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<exobuzz> what an idiot!
<MooDoo> yay
<exobuzz> im finished. thanks bye bed :-)
<dogmatic69> screen-x: http://pastebin.com/6RD7G85p
<dogmatic69> ftp ^
<boeheid> whos talking politics?
<MartijnVdS> boeheid: TV licensing = politics
<boeheid> aw chill oot
<exobuzz> actually.. tv licensing = cnuts
<exobuzz> ok. im gone really..
<screen-x> dogmatic69: for transfering files between two ubuntu boxes, scp is great.
<boeheid> its nothing to do with politics
<screen-x> scp = secure copy, it uses ssh.
<boeheid> but then he proll got caught
<MartijnVdS> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<MooDoo> just keep it out the channel as most of use aren't really interested
<boeheid> and im interesed in your rubbush most of the time?
<boeheid> i dont complain
<dogmatic69> screen-x: ssh nautilus http://i.min.us/iCmiA.png
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i use git 99% of the time
<screen-x> dogmatic69: try and create the dir, on the server as your user. Fix permissions till it works, then go back to trying remote copying
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all :-)
<MooDoo> morning
<screen-x> \o TheOpenSourcerer
<MartijnVdS> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Someone wants to give me a donation for my WP theme :-) 1st time that has happened.
<screen-x> \o/ nice people
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://oztronomy.net/
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yes i saw that :)  nice link a the bottom of the page too :)
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i own everything and the chmod looks right to me http://pastebin.com/zJpweQQy
<dogmatic69> the path is view/themed/clean/*
<TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: Do an ls -l rather than "o" so we can see the group too.
<TheOpenSourcerer> The do a "whoami"
<dogmatic69> drwxr-xr-x 5 dogmatic69 users 4096 2010-12-10 08:20 clean
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: ^
<dogmatic69> its a slicehost server and "users" is the normal group
<dogmatic69> [themed dev] $ groups dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> dogmatic69 : users
<boeheid> B-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> can you create stuff from the command line? i.e. touch test.file
<dogmatic69> http://pastebin.com/ma8PfMev
<TheOpenSourcerer> So you have the right perms. Where did the nautilus error come from? Are you running it over ssh -X?
<dogmatic69> ssh user@server
<dogmatic69> also ftp aint working
<screen-x> dogmatic69: does copying files/folders to other locations work? eg /tmp
<dogmatic69> i just copied to /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html
<dogmatic69> the one that does not work is /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html/view/themed/*
<TheOpenSourcerer> can you do scp? From your local machine: scp test.file user@host: will put it in your home dir
<TheOpenSourcerer> You can put the full path after the colon if you want to try and dump something in the problem dir.
<dogmatic69> i copied the files to /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html and then cp'ed them to the right location
<dogmatic69> now everything is there
<dogmatic69> wtf
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<dogmatic69> that is balls
<dogmatic69> perms for working drwxr-xr-x 14 dogmatic69 users 4096 2010-12-10 08:43 public_html
<dogmatic69> not working drwxr-xr-x 4 dogmatic69 users 4096 2010-12-10 08:43 themed
<dogmatic69> what is the 14 and 4
<screen-x> 4 is the link count, I can't see 14.
<screen-x> oh, on the previous line...
<dogmatic69> there are other places i cant copy to also
<screen-x> \o/ kerberos replication to slave KDC finally working
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i just rm -r the whole lot, will upload a .gz of the repo
<dogmatic69> i think its the git clone that fked it up
<czajkowski> aloha
<screen-x> dogmatic69: if you use git consistently it should be ok, and that would be a very good way of managing it.
<dogmatic69> that is what i normally do
<dogmatic69> as its just a os project the repo is on github so git clone address is easy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mind your eyes: http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/ (ouch)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.flowtown.com/blog/9-websites-stuck-in-the-1990s-2
<BigRedS> I thought they'd killed Geocities?
<nigelb> Morning Uk-ites
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh dear
<nigelb> "How not to design websites"
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: that's an awesomely modern bar the Christians have at the top of their page
<BigRedS> sort-of implies somebody's actually maintaining that site still
<screen-x> When TheOpenSourcerer said "mind your eyes" I thought you meant brace yourself for horrible design, not epileptic fit warning!
<MooDoo> sorry can't read this i'm blind
<kazade> morning all
<Flashtek> o/
<Flashtek> MooDoo: I do have a friend on IRC that actually is blind..
<MooDoo> Flashtek: awesome, do they use some braile reader?
<Flashtek> aye
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> boeheid looks like it was Linuxsapien
<Flashtek> morning popey
<popey> lo
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey - Ignortion seemed the best approach.
<popey> indeed
<TheOpenSourcerer> DO NOT follow the link I posted here earlier.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you're telling us now ;)
<Flashtek> TheOpenSourcerer: which ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> This one: http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/ Don't go here. Whatever you do.
<kaushal> hi
<Flashtek> o/
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: why?  apart from it looking aweful
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning kaushal
<kaushal> I have 4 Gigs Physical RAM on my laptop
<Flashtek> kaushal: cool
<kaushal> But Ubuntu Desktop 10.10 recognizes only 3.4 GB
<Flashtek> kaushal: 32bit or 64bit ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo I was just trying to be a tad ironic.
<kaushal> and what can be done about remaining 600MB
<kaushal> 32 Bit
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ah sorry lol thought it was virused or something
<Flashtek> kaushal: there is the issue.. 32bit can't count that high
<popey> it can
<Flashtek> kaushal: if you want to use the full RAM amount, use 64bit
<popey> nope
<popey> use linux-image-generic-pae
<TheOpenSourcerer> You should be running the pae kernel
<Flashtek> orly
<popey> !info linux-image-generic-pae
<lubotu3> linux-image-generic-pae (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.35.23.25 (maverick), package size 4 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia all armel)
<popey> YA RLY!
<Flashtek> kaushal: is it a 64bit cpu ?
<kaushal> Flashtek: how do i find it ?
<kaushal> is it lm in cpuinfo ?
<Flashtek> kaushal: grep " lm " /proc/cpuinfo
<kaushal> yes its there
<Flashtek> so, you have a 64bit system..
<Flashtek> with 4gb ram
<Flashtek> and you're running 32bit ?
<kaushal> yes
<Flashtek> can i ask why ?
<popey> why not?
<popey> there's very little advantage to running 64-bit on a 4GB box
<Flashtek> popey: perhaps because he's not using the full power available..
<popey> he will _use_ more memory if he switches to 64-bit too
<popey> if he had 8GB then maybe its worth it
<popey> and maybe if he does some video encoding or other computationally heavy stuff
<Flashtek> every little helps IME
<popey> but the vast majority of uses for the vast majority of users, wont notice the difference
<Flashtek> I notice the difference
<popey> not when your computer spends ~90%+ of its time idle
<popey> you are in the minority
<Flashtek> but the 10% that's used is more efficiant
<popey> prove it :)
<Flashtek> popey: no thanks, that'd mean reinstalling a 32bit version
<popey> ok, I'll dismiss that argument then :)
<Flashtek> :) oke
<Flashtek> makes a difference when doing big compile jobs too
<popey> I did say that
<Flashtek> aye
<popey> 09:37:31 < popey> and maybe if he does some video encoding or other computationally heavy stuff
<popey> I'm not disputing that there's some advantage to running 64-bit, but the advantages are small IMO
<Flashtek> oh, I also do actualy do video encoding..
<Flashtek> ;-)
<popey> yeah, me too, but the difference isnt significant
<Flashtek> 09:37 < Flashtek> every little helps IME
<Flashtek> anyway, kaushal.. there are options for you..
<Flashtek> pae kernel, or 64bit system
<popey> or just ignore it :)
<Flashtek> true
<popey> i have a laptop with 4GB RAM which can only see 3.3 GB :(
<Flashtek> I have a laptop with 3gb, and I can see all of it :-D
<Flashtek> I win
<popey> Yes, you do, congratulations, you win.
<MartijnVdS> You wine one internets.
<MartijnVdS> win*
<Flashtek> woop
<Flashtek> an internets all of my own
<hoover> mornin folks
<Flashtek> hi hoover
<hoover> hello Flashtek
<Flashtek> hoover: is your name henry ?
<hoover> Flashtek: no, it's my father's name actually ;-)
<hoover> German: Heinz -> English: Henry
<Flashtek> i was wondering about the hoover name..
<hoover> Nah, that's been my nick since the early 80s or so
<Flashtek> furry muff
 * screen-x sets off on a quest to configure an ldap slave
<directhex> screen-x: syncrepl!
<screen-x> \o/ google fodder
<screen-x> thanks directhex
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-Vnx58UYo is good fun
 * BigRedS wonders if that's a joke aimed at Gnome, or if he's reading too much into this
<JamesTait> Morning all. :)
<dogmatic69> sup
<bigcalm> popey: they had a lot of fun with that
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> I tried 2 of the 3 joggler images last night. Both didn't get past grub due to partitions not existing
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that my sandisk stick has extra partitions on it
<JamesTait> Ooh, is today the website hack day?
<Flashtek> ?
<JamesTait> Yeah, that sounds bad, doesn't it?
<JamesTait> No, I don't mean we'll be performing illegal activities on web site. :)
<JamesTait> +s
<bigcalm> That would be cracking
<JamesTait> Indeed..
<bigcalm> Why can't the media learn the difference?
<JamesTait> Although a certain amount of hacking may also be involved.
<bigcalm> The end result of hacking might be cracking
<JamesTait> But I'm straying from the point.
<Flashtek> indeed
<JamesTait> I thought today (or maybe it's next Friday) was the day we all try and do what we can to get the new Ubuntu-UK web site fit for launch.
<JamesTait> Well, all who want to anyway.
<Flashtek> first i've heard of it..
<popey> JamesTait: its today
<JamesTait> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-December/027711.html
<JamesTait> Actually, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-November/027677.html
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/website
<popey> has the "to-do" / "wish" list
<Flashtek> I will help in any way I can..
<JamesTait> Thanks popey. :)
<JamesTait> I think I just found my project(s) for this evening.
<gord> *shudders* the creepy ubuntu desktop background got switched to by the desktop background rotator :(
<screen-x> which one is creepy gord?
<gord> screen-x, http://gordallott.com/img/Smile_by_quinn.anya.jpg <-- that one. i have two monitors and that... face.. it just stares at me!
<gord> and then sometimes i have my netbook in here then there are three of it!
<screen-x> I'll agree that's a bit creepy..
<screen-x> Why not remove it from the rotation?
<screen-x> immensely shallow DoF
<gord> gnome background rotation stuff is a pain and the file that controls it will just get overwritten when i next get an upgrade on that package anyway
<gord> you would think that for rotating the backgrounds you would have a simple list of files right? maybe a gconf key that states the minutes for each rotation? gnome thinks you need a whole xml file with this undocumentated schema
<czajkowski> gord: yer very special at times
 * Flashtek has a warm kitten on his left forearm.. :)
<nigelb> gord: I tend to think of food seeing that image
<BigRedS> Flashtek: they don't normally stay in the same place for very long
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning
<X3N> morning
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski to get that out of the way
<awilkins> Mmm. Warm kitten sandwich.
 * czajkowski trips davmor2 up 
<Flashtek> BigRedS: this one is..
<Flashtek> awilkins: lol
<Flashtek> not much meat on this one..
<BigRedS> haha
<screen-x> Flashtek: unfortunately the topic no longer contains kittens  :(
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | Kittens \o/
<Flashtek> sure it does
<screen-x> :D
<Flashtek> KITTENZ !
<davmor2> czajkowski: now I got hot coffee all down me, git!
 * Flashtek passes davmor2 some paper towels
 * davmor2 goes and gets another coffee
<Flashtek> kitteh is reading IRC....
<screen-x> lo kitteh
<BigRedS> Ah! Coffee! That's what's missing!
 * popey puts catnip on the keyboard
 * popey is on coffee #3
 * Flashtek has not had any 0xC0FFEE yet today
 * davmor2 awaits the gibberish from popey as the cat walks all over his keyboard for the rest of the day
<czajkowski> davmor2: brat
<davmor2> czajkowski: pleasure
 * MooDoo pokes czajkowski :p
<czajkowski> tag teaming are ye
<MooDoo> davmor2: phew was feeling left out there
 * davmor2 tags MooDoo and prods czajkowski leaps back to the corner of the ring and tags MooDoo back in.   czajkowski No we're not tag teaming at all
 * MooDoo stands in front of czajkowski ready to pounce with the four figure leg lock in mind....
<screen-x> errr !ohmy ?
<MooDoo> screen-x: don't worry myself and davmor2 are running a tag team against czajkowski
 * AlanBell thinks MooDoo is going to get a pounding
<AlanBell> anyhow, website stuff
<AlanBell> anyone want more access to it to do stuff?
<MooDoo> AlanBell: a pounding?
<AlanBell> the tag team thing
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ah i see, i'm past being scared of czajkowski now ;)
<AlanBell> beta.ubuntu-uk.org/wp-login.php?action=register
<indy> hi folks
<MooDoo> hi indy
<X3N> talking of websites, are we ever going to switch ubuntu-uk.org over to the new site?
<JamesTait> AlanBell: (not sure why you're not showing on the user list) Yes please. Do I need to do anything other than register?
<UndiFineD> AlanBell, is special JamesTait
<UndiFineD> he is second on the userlist, probably out of your view
<screen-x> Presumably the relevant people know about: Warning: split() expects parameter 2 to be string, array given in /srv/beta.ubuntu-uk.org/www/wp-content/plugins/osm/osm.php on line 211
<JamesTait> Time for tea.
<indy> guys i'm having trouble getting my Sony Laptop working with U10.10 and nvidia. Does anyone here have any suggestion on how to get the graphics to work?
<awilkins> indy, Are you using the nvidia binary driver, or nouveau?
<awilkins> indy, It will be using nouveau by default, you wil lhave had to approve a "restricted driver" to gt the binary.
<indy> awilkins, the nvidia driver...had to disable nouveau cause it didn't set my screen properly
<awilkins> So what is not working correctly?
 * AlanBell upgrades subscribers to authors
<indy> once i disable the nouveau driver and install the nvidia the system doesn't login. I think this all to do with the EDID file not being generated by the nvidia driver
<screen-x> mistyped twitter.com, missing one of the middle 't's and ended up at a very NSFW site :(
<SuperMatt> huh, arista-transcode cli tool doesn't work inf I use arista-transcode -p Desire filename.avi, but it does work if I replace filename.avi with /path/to/file/filename.avi
<MartijnVdS> indy: nothing 'generates edid files'
<JamesTait> indy: I feel your pain. I have a Vaio with the GT330M and had quite a bit of bother.
 * JamesTait should keep better notes about things like this.
<awilkins> I had trouble with EDIDs on a Viewsonic monitor because it's internal storage got wiped... I don't know what they use to store them in but it seems quite fragile, had to replace the damn thing twice just for this.
<awilkins> I just hope the refurbed units get a better EDID store than the factory models.
<indy> but the thing is 10.04 does work with the 256.xx driver
<indy> i think it's a combo problem with 10.10 and 260.xx driver
<MartijnVdS> guess why I've stopped buying nvidia :)
<indy> i wanted 10.10 cause it looks better than 10.04
<JamesTait> indy: Currently I'm pinned at nvidia-current 256.53-ubuntu3
<JamesTait> Insert a '0' before the ubuntu.
<awilkins> Can you still write your own Xorg.conf or will it just get ignored now?
<JamesTait> indy: But I'm pretty certain I had to do more fiddling around than just installing that to get it to work.
<awilkins> Aha, the nvidia tool writes one for you
<indy> JamesTait, yeah you're right. i had to add 2 lines to my xorg file
<indy> i think these are the sort of problems that's holding Linux adoption back
<popey> there are many things holding linux adoption back
<MartijnVdS> let's fix them one at a time :)
<indy> popey, i know, but i'm just talking of the basic things that a user needs in order to get the PC to work
<awilkins> It's a symptom of the overall distribution of the market - these problems no doubt occur in Windows but there's a lot more incentive and funding to test them out and fix them.
<indy> in general i think the Linux community is doing a fantastic job trying to keep things afloat
<BigRedS> Also, people genuinely expect Windows to have faults. They just accept them. It's really peculiar.
<popey> indy: people shouldn't need to "get the pc to work", it should come with the OS pre-configured out of the box
<popey> see Google Chrome for an example :)
<awilkins> I think there is a phenomenon where the larger a piece of software is perceived, the more likely you'll put up with faults because your little problem with it seems insignificant - esp in Office and Windows
<indy> popey, true
<awilkins> Maybe you could have a Linux Clinic where you charge some fraction of the Windows license fee to install Linux and get it working. You'd be fine in the majority of cases. And then you'd earn your keep on machines like indy's
<popey> Charge in bitcoins!
<awilkins> Only when I can spend them in  Tesco
<indy> awilkins, good idea. problem is may prove costly in the long run cause kernel upgrades can break things and that would really pi$$ people off
<awilkins> The other thing it would provide is invaluable - a list of faults that people really care about (enough to wave cash around)
<awilkins> I suppose commercial Linux support covers that to a degree
<indy> i installed 10.10 on my wife's pc and everything was working fine. i did an upgrade and for some reason her mic stop working and she went mad cause she couldn't talk to her family on skype...got a right ear full that day
<popey> thats why i rarey update my mums computer :)
<popey> i get emailed about the updates required each day
<popey> and choose when to do them carefully
<indy> popey, that's exactly what i do now
<awilkins> I too have this kind of phenomenon with my wife. She expects that because I'm a "computer guy" that I'm an expert on using Office (avoid it) or even EndNote (!)
<indy> at least i got her onto Linux
<awilkins> My dear old mumsy loves it.
<awilkins> Or at least, doesn't pester me with problems
<awilkins> She was a legal secretary before she retired so does have some familiarity with computers
<cocoa117> anyone here use scheduleworld.com sync their PIM data? Are they/he/she shutting down for good?
<awilkins> Wifey was on Linux but was re-infected with Windows because she's doing a research project and her IT dept don't comprehend full-disk encryption products that work on anything but Windows
<popey> cocoa117: that host doesn't resolve
<awilkins> Her machine now takes about 10 minutes to boot ; painful to watch it constantly thrashing the disk too.
<cocoa117> popey, DNS issue?
<popey> *shrug*
<awilkins> Bogged down with very poor antivirus product and the horrible enterprisey disk encryption that we have to use at work.
<indy> awilkins, i know what you mean. my wife had the same problem with her laptop. i put Linux on and it was booting in seconds and responding better overall
<screen-x> directhex: do I need "overlay syncprov" on the slapd master, when using syncrepl?
<indy> of course i had to mess about with the setting to get her webcam to work with skype
<indy> ok guys gotta go now...
<dutchie> mothers :(
<awilkins> Mine :-)    ... hers    :-S
<MooDoo> awilkins: i think you'll find it is, what's hers is hers, what's yours is hers :)
<dutchie> left my laptop overnight doing an initial offlineimap sync, and woke up this morning at student o'clock to find computer turned off, and don't know whether the offlineimap job finished
<dutchie> now i'm worried to run it again in case it deletes all my email server-side
<awilkins> Isn't that what IMAP doesn't do? I thought that was POP?
<dutchie> !info offlineimap
<lubotu3> offlineimap (source: offlineimap): IMAP/Maildir synchronization and reader support. In component universe, is optional. Version 6.2.0.2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 153 kB, installed size 552 kB
<BigRedS> if you delete stuff that offlineimap has downloaded, it will delete it on the server
<BigRedS> if offlineimap hasn't finished downloading, it should just carry on as before
<BigRedS> exactly like any other 'imap' client
<directhex> screen-x: i have it, so it's at worst not harmful
<dutchie> BigRedS: oh, it "knows" when it hasn't finished? that's reassurin
<dutchie> g
<BigRedS> dutchie: well, it certainly should
<screen-x> directhex: Thanks. I was getting "overlay \"syncprov\" not found" whenever I added that line. Found the problem, I was missing loadmodule syncprov.la
<BigRedS> Oh wow. The empathy ':(' emoticon looks _really_ sad
<BigRedS> I almost feel sorry for it
<UndiFineD> almost :P
<screen-x> directhex: are your slapd slaves started with -c rid=xxx?
<directhex> no
<directhex> there's just a rid setting in the syncrepl stanza in slapd.conf
<directhex> openldap 26358     1  0 Mar16 ?        1-04:49:36 /usr/sbin/slapd -h ldaps:/// -g openldap -u openldap -f /etc/ldap/slapd.conf
<screen-x> thanks again directhex :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello
<brobostigon> MooDoo: hello. :)
<AlanBell> through a sequence of missdials I have discovered our business phone number is very similar to that of Mac User, and a 1 to 1 chat service with hot girls apparently
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is also very close to Maplins support line too ;-)
<brobostigon> cool.
<bigcalm> A client continues to use google translate, but what's with the capitlisation? 'For the moment we don't have subcategories, but maybe WE can HAVE just one as example, call i "Test" under "Scenic Highlights"'
<evilchristel> all the cool kids do random capitalisation of words
<MooDoo> Do They?
<evilchristel> absolutely
 * czajkowski hugs evilchristel 
 * evilchristel tickles czajkowski 
<bigcalm> evilchristel: :))
<bigcalm> Where have you been hiding?
<AlanBell> where all the cool kids hide!
<davmor2> bigcalm: just over there behind the watercooler don't tell me you couldn't see evilchristel
<czajkowski> evilchristel: head away over the weekend to bath, back december 31st we should catch up
<gord> i get to know amazon customer service far too well these days, i hate royal mail :(
<jpds> gord: Likewise.
<gord> amazon tend to refund me the royal mail charge, but i'm not that fussed about Â£2, i just want my stuff :(
<bigcalm> I phoned Amazon customer services to let them know they had sent me 2 copies of the same CD. After a while of scratching their heads, they thanked me, gave me a return lable and credited my account with 5 quid :)
<gord> yeah, amazon customer services are really good
<czajkowski> bigcalm: nice
<bigcalm> czajkowski: just hope the 2nd cd actually turns up at some point
<bigcalm> Can't leave Hayley CDsless
<bigcalm> I want it to be the 25th already so that I can give her the necklace/earring set
 * bigcalm is terrible at keeping surprses
<brobostigon> bigcalm: you do realise this is publiclly recorded ?
<bigcalm> brobostigon: yep, and she doesn't "do" IRC
<brobostigon> bigcalm: ok.
<bigcalm> I've tried to get her on here. So have others :)
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: soppy :p
<bigcalm> czajkowski: indeedie :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> How cool? http://www.flickr.com/photos/40225877@N03/sets/72157625401839531/
<Apacheuk> hi all o/, are there any firewall guru's out there?
<bigcalm> iain@ppl:~$ date
<bigcalm> Fri Dec 10 16:11:45 GMT 2010
<bigcalm> Something wrong there
<|Dreams|> having a weird problem - on some websites half i keep getting a black rectangle that seems to flash on part of the webpage? i am using latest ubuntu x64
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: rather detailed
<|Dreams|> disabled compiz and on basic in appearnce
<|Dreams|> still doing it arghhhhhh
<|Dreams|> lol
<gord> |Dreams|, flash? i get that with flash
<|Dreams|> its only started happening recently
<|Dreams|> yeah facebook etc
<|Dreams|> doing my head in
<|Dreams|> http://imagebin.ca/view/SP39XNiG.html example
<|Dreams|> that black oblong
<|Dreams|> it flashes until i click to the left of it
<|Dreams|> :S
<bigcalm> Install the web dev tool bar and find out what that object is
<|Dreams|> i that what happens to u gord
<|Dreams|> it happens on different parts of the page at different times
<andylockran> howdy all
<|Dreams|> i thought it was either graphics or my monitor on the way out
<|Dreams|> but disabled propitiatory still does it - must be flash
<cocoa117> anyone know how to disable "password and encryption keys" prompt when you trying to access remote desktop? each time you have to be physically with your remote desktop and type in default password before I can access it remotely
<|Dreams|> yeah tell it to remember the password/key permenantly
<cocoa117> |Dreams|, where?
<|Dreams|> it oul dof aske dyou the first time you accessed the remote
<|Dreams|> peferences - remote desktop
<|Dreams|> sorry about the typo my keyboard is dying too
<|Dreams|> lol
<|Dreams|> you can change settings there to accept connections automatically
<cocoa117> |Dreams|, i didn't really get it
<cocoa117> |Dreams|, so i should set on my remote desktop first?
<|Dreams|> yeah check automativcally configure to accept conections
<cocoa117> done that
<|Dreams|> on the pc your trying to connect to?
<cocoa117> i use password to login
<cocoa117> yes
<cocoa117> in security section, "require the user to enter this password", i put down my password
<|Dreams|> so what you are trying to do it get the machine your using to connect to a remote pc without asking for the password?
<cocoa117> the machine name:5000
<|Dreams|> uncheck you must confirm
<|Dreams|> onthe pc you are trying to connect too
<cocoa117> yes, your mast confirm each accesss has been unchcked
<|Dreams|> and you still physically have to be on the pc you are connecting too, to accept the connectio
<|Dreams|> ?
<cocoa117> yes, to type in the password for "password and encryption keys"
<cocoa117> which is default password as my login
<|Dreams|> strange
<|Dreams|> sorry i cant help any further stick around maybe someone better can help
<cocoa117> |dreams| no worries
<Phineas> i'm back now
<Phineas> hello all 151 people in this channel
<MooDoo> hello
<Phineas> how do i edit a aac flie
<MooDoo> audio editor?
<Phineas> MooDoo,  which one
<MooDoo> maybe audacity will be able to do it, not sure though
<Phineas> MooDoo,  nope it wont load the file
<evilchristel> czajkowski: youre not back before the 31st!?
<Phineas> audacity wont load a aac
<MooDoo> phineas - http://www.ehow.com/how_4964854_convert-aac-mp-ubuntu.html
<MooDoo> just search google
<MooDoo> Phineas: so aac to mp3 then use audacity
<czajkowski> evilchristel: nope I head to Bath on sunday early
<czajkowski> then from there head back
<Phineas> god IRC png is hard
<Phineas> curse  you ffmpeg
<Phineas> now i have 50 dud .mp3s which don't play (stream contains no data)
<MooDoo> Phineas: just search google, i'm sure someone has done it before
<andylockran> howdy9
<MooDoo> hullo
<andylockran> how goes things?
<andylockran> fancy hearing peoples comments on: http://zrmt.com/article/view/coalition #politics #offtopic
<bigcalm> Is it just on Windows, or does the gimp take forever to start up on linux as well?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: probably just windows
<MooDoo> seems fine on my laptop
<bigcalm> Silly Windows
<Phineas> bigcalm,  gimp takes some time on my laptop
<Phineas> i'm confused Kindle For Pc wont open
<Phineas> oh wait i get it Vurtual box
<Phineas> bigcalm,  its  not just windows being silly gimp is slow ish on my matchine as well
 * AlanBell has a hack at the website
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Coalition - http://zrmt.com/article/view/coalition
<AlanBell> andylockran: makes a lot of sense to me
<andylockran> AlanBell: cheers for the feedback
 * Phineas swats SWAT
 * brobostigon has a local real ale, yummy, :)
<brobostigon> maybe pub, it is friday night afterall.
<Phineas> brobostigon,  and the weekend woot woot
<brobostigon> Phineas: a hopefully quiet, relaxing weekend,
<Phineas> brobostigon,  hopefully yeah
<brobostigon> Phineas: :)
 * SWAT pinches Phineas 
<brobostigon> hmm, there is a thread on the german ubuntu mailing list, about sexy linux girls, hmmm.
<bigcalm> A myth and no mistake
<brobostigon> bigcalm: there are loads of girls and women who use linux.
<bigcalm> :P
<brobostigon> bigcalm: czajkowski and myrtti to start with,
<dutchie> brobostigon: sounds like the sort of thread that would go off-CoC very very very quickly
<brobostigon> dutchie: i am subscribed to the german ubuntu list, i havent fully read it yet, so dont know yet, if it has or not.
<jacobw> How can I verify the wireless channel in use in Ubuntu?
<jacobw> Can you read German brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> jacobw: yes, and speak, as well.
<brobostigon> jacobw: iwconfig i think.
<brobostigon> jacobw: verify ?
<jacobw> I want to see what channel the wireless is using
<brobostigon> jacobw: iwconfig then.
<brobostigon> however, i am not sure it gives that much detail, iwconfig's scan, might give it. and show the channel for the AP.
<brobostigon> iwlist i mean,
<jacobw> The problem I'm having is that a laptop with an A/G/N wireless card loses signal about 4 metres from the AP
<jacobw> I'm trying to determine whether it is a signal mismatch error, I don't think it is now
<X3N> I've known having N enabled to cause problems
<brobostigon> jacobw: if it is a linux based router, have you looked at the wifi AP deamon logs onthere, to see if the issue is onthat end,
<jacobw> The AP transmits on channel 1, I've changed the laptop to channel 11, worked down the channels and seen the signal strength improve
<brobostigon> jacobw: ok, thats good.
<jacobw> X3N, I don't know how to check whether N is enabled in Ubuntu though
<brobostigon> jacobw: iwconfig as i mentioned earlier will give you that.
<dutchie> does clonezilla support ext4 nowadays?
<dutchie> last time i tried, it was just dd'ing it
<MartijnVdS> http://www.fsarchiver.org/Main_Page
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: ^
<jacobw> Disabling N on the router hasn't helped my situation
<MartijnVdS> try disabling N in the driver :)
<jacobw> how do I do that MartijnVdS ?
 * jacobw has a bad feeling it will involve recompilation of kernels
<dutchie> cheers MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: most likely a module option
<MartijnVdS> or an "iw" command
<MartijnVdS> (iw help)
<MartijnVdS> *off to the gym*
<jacobw> according to `iwconfig` the card isn't using N, "IEEE 802.11abg"
<jacobw> hmm :(
<czajkowski> bigcalm aup
<bigcalm> czajkowski: yo yo
<czajkowski> saq mt name highlighted
<bigcalm> ?
<czajkowski> saw my
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Did I address you?
<czajkowski> someone else saud talk to me or myrtti
<siriusly> test from Android phone
 * bigcalm hugs czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> bbiab
<bigcalm> czajkowski: scroll up a little, you'll see that somebody didn't see I was being silly
 * siriusly is impressed :)
<daubers> Ahhhh
<daubers> finally get to sit down
<coffeebean8888> hi
<coffeebean8888> who is from uk then?
<dutchie> probably most people in here
<coffeebean8888> cool
<coffeebean8888> ok
<coffeebean8888> me too
<czajkowski> bigcalm o- phone
<coffeebean8888> ubuntu software sites?
<coffeebean8888> who has some?
<X3N> All the software for ubuntu is usually in the repositories
<X3N> via the add/remove software, much like an app store, but everything is free ;)
<Nafallo> Ubuntu Software Center
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: iwconfig doesn't do N, "iw" does
<rymate1234> hi!
<rymate1234> i need help!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Apache Software Foundation leaves JCP - Red Hat in alliance with proprietary corporations - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/apache-software-foundation-leaves-jcp-red-hat-alliance-proprietary-corporations
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] LibreOffice: Document Foundation Steering Committee Public Phone Conference 11-Dec-2010 - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/libreoffice-document-foundation-steering-committee-public-phone-conference-11-dec-2010
<AlanBell> !info simon
<lubotu3> Package simon does not exist in maverick
<Azelphur> AlanBell: my brother doesn't exist?
<Azelphur> WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY BROTHER :(
<AlanBell> been eaten by a narwhal
<Azelphur> noooooooooooooo :(
<Nafallo> don't ask questions you don't want the answers to
<daubers> !Alan
<daubers> :(
<daubers> The Alans will consume you all!!
<daubers> AlanBell: How goes website hackingness?
<AlanBell> I was going to chat with the person who wrote the lugmap plugin later
<AlanBell> I got it kind of working
<daubers> Oh?
<daubers> Ah, I see :)
<daubers> Ooooooh, Areca updated their API, it's now got comments!
<daubers> while not brain.Active:
<daubers>     daubers.sleep()
<coffeebean8888> usb-imagewriter i cant install it on ubuntu why?
<coffeebean8888> there no apt package?
<coffeebean8888> https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive/ppa/+packages
<coffeebean8888> ??????
<coffeebean8888> anyone
<coffeebean8888> any ideas
<coffeebean8888> ????
<DJones> Which version of Ubuntu are you using
<Azelphur> !punctuation | coffeebean8888
<lubotu3> coffeebean8888: Punctuation is good, but its overuse hurts readability:  Please refrain from adding many ?'s or !'s to the end of your sentences.  See also !enter
<coffeebean8888> shut up lubotu3 u monkey gimp
<coffeebean8888> ha ha ha ha
<coffeebean8888> how about that punctuation
<coffeebean8888> ????????????
<Azelphur> coffeebean8888: you know your arguing with a bot right? :p
<coffeebean8888> how do u install usb image writer?
<Azelphur> coffeebean8888: is it not in the software center?
<DJones> coffeebean8888: How about answering the question I asked you?
<AlanBell> !info unetbootin
<lubotu3> unetbootin (source: unetbootin): installer of Linux/BSD distributions to a partition or USB drive. In component universe, is optional. Version 471-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 274 kB, installed size 808 kB
<Azelphur> I use unetbootin too
<MooDoo>  hello all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matthew Garrett] Viewsonic gtab update - http://mjg59.livejournal.com/131223.html
 * DJones debates whether to install swype on his phone
<coffeebean8888> i have usb image writer thanks
<JamesTait> Hello all you wonderful people. :)
<DJones> Nice, Swype is better in practise than I expected
<JamesTait> I was hoping to find someone who could give me the necessary information/access to start hacking on the map or identi.ca integration. I see there's been some discussion about it.
<AlanBell> JamesTait: stas in #ubuntu-website wrote the map plugin
<AlanBell> he is writing a new version
<JamesTait> AlanBell I was just about to add that there appear to be two blue pins on the map now.
<AlanBell> 22:19 < stas> I will rewrite it using post types
<AlanBell> 22:19 < stas> great
<AlanBell> 22:20 < stas> also, I will probably add some export/import functionality, and better management
<JamesTait> brb
<Flashtek> evenin' all
<JamesTait> 'ello 'ello 'ello. :)
<Flashtek> my boss made a cock up !
<Flashtek> I made one too.. darn..
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-11
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have Dell Laptop A860 Core2 Duo wishing to install Ubuntu 10.10
<kaushal> is it better to go with 32 Bit or 64 Bit
<hamitron> if you intend to install on a system with 4Gb or more ram, often better on 64 bit
<hamitron> also need to check your cpu supports it
<kaushal> I have lm flag in cpuinfo
<kaushal> the Video RAM is shared in system Memory
<kaushal> right ?
<hamitron> I believe so
<hamitron> I'd guess 32 bit is best looking at google
<hamitron> but in terms of selecting 32/64 bit, shared video memory is of no worry
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> hamitron: bit confused
<hamitron> 32 bit is able to used upto 4Gb RAM
<hamitron> use*
<kaushal> at the moment I am running 32 bit OS
<hamitron> I'd stick with 32 bit then
<hamitron> :)
<kaushal> so it shows only 3.4 Gigs RAM
<kaushal> and 600mb is lost
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> well, you will gain some memory by using 64 bit then
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> since Video is consuming 256 mb ram
<kaushal> cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep -i RAM
<kaushal> so out of
<kaushal> 3.4 Gigs 256 is used by Video RAM
<hamitron> I've never been lucky enough to have that much RAM :)
<n1md4> kaushal: aptitude search `uname -r`-bigmem I think...
<n1md4> ...or the pae extension.
<Azelphur> http://hacknmod.com/hack/100-software-based-arduino-simulator/
<Azelphur> :O
<Azelphur> if it doesn't have a Linux version I'm going on a killing spree
<Azelphur> no Linux, failed.
<hamitron> Azelphur: doesn't it destroy the point of the board?
<dutchie> Azelphur: ah, just the man
<Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug*
<Azelphur> dutchie: I'm the man?
<dutchie> Azelphur: did you say you had l4d2/steam running ok under wine?
<Azelphur> yup, use it every day
<dutchie> any fiddling to tell me about?
<Azelphur> nothing besides fonts no
<dutchie> fonts?
<hamitron> mscore things?
<Azelphur> dutchie: the default font that wine uses looks really bad
<Azelphur> so you need tahoma.ttf and arial I think
<Azelphur> I just copy and pasted all my windows fonts into wine :D
<dutchie> i no longer have any windows fonts
<Azelphur> but yea besides that it should still work
<Azelphur> unless your using ATI
<dutchie> thanks
<dutchie> nope, intel
<Azelphur> in which case...your screwed!
<Azelphur> your very screwed.
<Azelphur> nvidia > ati > intel a handy guide to Linux gaming
<Azelphur> I've never got anything at all to work on intel xD
<dutchie> yay
<hamitron> :/
<dutchie> this will be fun
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> try it by all means but I'm not hopeful
<Azelphur> intel integrated graphics for gaming?
<Azelphur> dutchie: why not pick up a cheap graphics card
 * hamitron made his sister get nvidia graphics in her laptop so he can buy it off her later ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<dutchie> Azelphur: laptop \o/
<Azelphur> ah \o/
<hamitron> :\
 * Azelphur made special care that his laptop had an nvidia card in it
<dutchie> <-- glutton for punishment
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> Intel/ATI are best for desktop use because of the open drivers
<Azelphur> but for gaming in wine, the nvidia proprietary drivers are pretty much the only way to go
<hamitron> I am still tempted to get some intel one
<Azelphur> try it though, it has been a while, maybe you'll get lucky
<hamitron> just for reason Azelphur said
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> hehe
 * dutchie is about to try it
<hamitron> Azelphur: but about the arduino...
<hamitron> surely the whole point is to build something with it?
<Azelphur> true but it'd be good for prototyping or people that don't have the money to get an arduino
<hamitron> guess so
<hamitron> just didn't want you getting lazy ;)
<mhad> ping
<mhad> ping raax.com
<mhad> exit
<skybinary> what can i do to hide the cursor when using ffmpeg x11grab for a screen-cast ?
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/660613/how-do-you-hide-the-mouse-pointer-under-linux-x11
<MartijnVdS> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/X11/contrib/utilities/unclutter-8.README :)
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, cept that doesnt seem to work when i tried it recently
<exobuzz> could have been me though.
<exobuzz> aah sorry it works. but i remembered wrong.. i had a different use case, where i wanted no mouse pointer whether its moved or not.
<skybinary> thanks MartijnVdS , i found that link its doesnt seem to be an easy task to hide the cursor
<MartijnVdS> easiest way is to screencast only part of the screen and keep the mouse outside that area :)
<skybinary> it would be nice to have a compiz macro to hide the cursor, just like the one to show sparkles
<skybinary> in windows i could replace all the cursor icons with blanks
<skybinary> i just tested using another cursor theme and in the resultant video that theme is not recorded, just the basic pointer is there
<MartijnVdS> Wayland should make this easier ;)
<Phineas> i am back at this early hour
<Phineas> everyone seems to be asleep this morning
<Phineas> how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes
<kaushal> can someone please guide me to install Flash on firefox 64 Bit, I am on 10.10 64 Bit
<_H> every time I use skype I have to agree to the t&c again
<Phineas> how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes
<Phineas> fire fox sometimes says the server is taking too long to respond but when i press refresh it seems to work, is this a bug
<Phineas> ?
<Phineas> hi everyone
<AlanBell> morning all
<Phineas> AlanBell,  morning
<ryan_> Good morning everyone
<Phineas> ryan_,  morning
<AlanBell> Phineas: you need to provide more information when asking questions
<AlanBell> instead of " how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly sometimes"
<Phineas> AlanBell,  how come my vurtual box makes ubuntu run slowly when the vurtual matchine is not doing much
<AlanBell> I have a desktop/laptop with xGB of memory and processor Y it is running Ubuntu version foo and N virtualbox guest sessions, each running operating system bar and having bas GB of ram assigned. I timed a particular operation and it took this long with the VM running and that long with it stopped.
<AlanBell> fill in the blanks
<AlanBell> and what is the HDD light doing
<alexcckll> Hi all...
<alexcckll> Can anyone shed light on what is going on with Systems Updates at the moement?  I've tried twice - and had to abort as the "Check" phase failed twice...
<Phineas> AlanBell,  I have a laptop with 80GB of memory and Intell pentimum dual-core cpu it is running ubuntu (the latest) and vurtual box ose guest sessions, each running operating system wondows xp  and having 993.0mb of ram (out of 1Gb of ram) assigned. I timed a particular operation and it took about 3mins with the vm running and 30secs with it stopped. the hdd light is blinking (fast)
<alexcckll> After getting that to run successfully on third attempt - the "Install" phase had to be cancelled out (Obviously, i told my computer not to continue applying anything until the Update manager process runs cleanly)
<Phineas> by memory thats hdd space
<alexcckll> I had 36 updates to collect, pulled 35 of tem.. but the 36th stopped dead in its tracks... while waiting of rit to download
<ryan_> phineas, can you run 'free -m' both when the vm is running and when it's stopped ? This will show whether the hdd activity is due to memory swapping
<Phineas> ryan_,  no idea what free -m is
<alexcckll> Why are my Systems Updates not coming down cleanly?
<Phineas> alexcckll,  i notaced that
<alexcckll> Has there been a major release?
<ryan_> phineas, apologies/ You need to open a terminal window (accessories - terminal) and type free -m in that
<Phineas> ryan_,  no vm running less then a seccond
<alexcckll> Or should I attempt updates midweek rather than at the weekend?
<AlanBell> Phineas: you have 1GB of physical ram and you assigned 993MB to the guest?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  i think so
<AlanBell> and you see no issue with that
<ryan_> phineas, you could also try running vmstat 5 300. If you see large numbers under the si and so columns it means your ubuntu computer is swapping. It appears you have assigned too much vm memory (993 M) when your ubuntu machine only has 1000M
<AlanBell> there are 1024 MB in a GB
<ryan_> phineas, that would only leave ~ 18MB for your ubuntu os. Hence the use of the swap memory
<AlanBell> you have left 31MB for the host
<Phineas> ryan_,  during the vm running free -m took about a seccond
<Phineas> AlanBell,  yeah and its 'skippy
<AlanBell> Phineas: try changing the ram allocation to the guest to around 400MB
<Phineas> AlanBell,  ubuntu that is, well sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't
<Phineas> AlanBell,  forgive me i just booted the vm
<Phineas> AlanBell,  hum thats is weird my copy of windows did not pass validation
<ryan_> AlanBell, I do stand corrected. There are indeed 1024MB in 1 GB.
<ryan_> phineas, when you run free -m, what does the total swap and used swap values say ?
<Phineas> ryan_,  5 (no vm) 267 (with vm
<ryan_> Sorry, what do the numbers 5 (no vm) 267 (with vm) refer to ?
<dwatkins> GB vs GiB
<Phineas> ryan_,  amount of swap in use
<AlanBell> Phineas: if you give almost all your ram to the guest the host will have none left, does this make sense?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  yes
<AlanBell> so don't do that!
<dwatkins> or get more RAM
<ryan_> phineas, thanks for that. You should try to use less memory assigned to your vm guests. If you run 1 guest, I would suggest 512 MB. If you run 2 I would suggest 256MB each
<alexcckll> I seem to recall when we used VMWare on Linux boxes at work - the boxes were really loaded for bear... and the guests had about 400Mb each
<ryan_> phineas, that way your host ubuntu OS will have enough memory to run without resorting to writing to and from the swap partition. Swap partition access is always slower than physical memory access hence the performance issue you are seeing
<Phineas> oh ok
<ryan_> phineas, the ideal situation would be to put more RAM in the box because if you assign too low a memory to your guests then they may themselves start to swap. Does this make sense ?
<Phineas> ryan_,  yeah but i only have 1GB of physical ram
<alexcckll> Oh - also probably a good idea to have swap on a different spindle to the VMs themselves..
<ryan_> phineas, as a starting point I would suggest trying to run 1 guest only with 512MB of memory assigned to it. Can you let us know if you see the same issue when you do this ?
<alexcckll> Umm - folks... any light shed on the Update Manager issue this morning?
<Phineas> ryan_,  will do when i get round to doing it
<dwatkins> I upgraded my host to have 8 GB of memory just to be able to run more than 1 vm
<ryan_> phineas, I've run windows xp guests with 512MB assigned in a host with 1GB a few years back so you should be fine
<alexcckll> brb
<ryan_> dwatkins. How many guests do you run with that 8GB ?
<Phineas> oop everything just sped up when i hit shutdown
<dwatkins> ryan_: I only just did the upgrade, but at least 2 or 3, I'm sure.
<ryan_> Great. I bet you have a meaty processor to go with all that memory too ;o)
<dwatkins> core i7
<dwatkins> I work with server software and need to reproduce customer environments.
<popey> morning ratfans
<Phineas> popey,  morning
<AlanBell> Phineas: did changing the ram allocation to the guest fix it?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  havn't tried yet
<AlanBell> issyl0 is off doing awesome stuff again http://rewiredstate.org/events/dotgovlabs_weekender
<Phineas> 2 peope don't have a nick in here
<AlanBell> what do you mean?
<Phineas> AlanBell,  2 people are knowen is guest
<AlanBell> yeah, that is fine
 * Phineas has just found something he wants for his birthday in 3 days time
<MartijnVdS> A pony?
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  nope, a Phineas and Ferb T-shirt and some other stuff
<Phineas> which is cool
<Phineas> MartijnVdS,  and nah i don't want a pony
<nigelb> I think you folks will find this one funny :) http://notalwaysright.com/accentuating-the-problem/8851
<issyl0> AlanBell: oh thank you :)
<Apacheuk> has the UbuntuOneMusic store had an upgrade recently, seems very fast this morning?
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: everyone who's on natty has broken u1ms.. maybe that's speeding it up? :)
<Apacheuk> MartijnVdS, could be.... either way I like it :)
<MartijnVdS> time for some more GT5ing :)
<MartijnVdS> Any other PS3/PSN users in here?
<nigelb> AlanBell: heh, we all know issyl0 is awesome ;)
<Apacheuk> MartijnVdS: am trying to convince my wife I NEED a PS3 for Christmas
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: It's one of the cheapest blu-ray players
<MartijnVdS> Apacheuk: need more convincing? :)
<Apacheuk> MartijnVdS: she does..... I already have a X360, Wii and a Blu-ray player.... any other suggestions?
<Apacheuk> I have to say I love the Rhythmbox integration  to the notification area in 10.10
<Phineas> Apacheuk,  i don't
<Apacheuk> Phineas: reasons?
<Phineas> Apacheuk,  don't use rythembox
<Apacheuk> Phineas: OK, good reason :)
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> aloha
<Phineas> orning
<Phineas> morning
<Apacheuk> hello
<bigcalm> Hi
<Phineas> hi
<issyl0> nigelb: aww :)
<daubers> Bah, python still building according to Ubuntu+1 :(
<a931bw> who'sfrom UK?
<Phineas> not me
<Phineas> a931bw,  what do you want to know about the uk (even tho i don't live in the uk)
<a931bw> registering somewhere and there is : half of your password will be sent by text message to this phone
<a931bw> its UK only
<a931bw> i though maybe someone could help
<Phineas> a931bw,  well one of my friends lives in the uk
<a931bw> could he help?
<Phineas> a931bw,  yeah
<a931bw> whats his name?
<Phineas> a931bw,  nick?
<a931bw> yeah
<Phineas> a931bw,  he is Heinz_Doofensmirz (on irc
<a931bw> he's not on?
<Phineas> a931bw,  he will be soon
<Phineas> there he is
<Heinz_Doofensmir> m
<Phineas> a931bw,  he is on now
<Phineas> a931bw,  did he help
<a931bw> yes
<Phineas> a931bw,  good to here that
<Phineas> l
<Phineas> k
<Phineas> i'm starting to run out of ideas on what to do on the computer]
<Phineas> any ideas?
<Apacheuk> Phineas: Have you tried sitting on it? :)
<Phineas> Apacheuk, thats not fun
<Apacheuk> erm....
<Apacheuk> what do you normally do on it?
<Phineas> Apacheuk,  youtube play games
<jacobw> read up on an interesting subject on Wikipedia
<Phineas> done that
<daubers> Phineas: Triage some bugs
<Phineas> tyiage
 * daubers ponders a brie and ham snadwhich
<UndiFineD> hug-a-bug :)
<daubers> You know when you have a moment of sudden realisation about things... I've suddenly realised why I've struggled so much learning to program in various languages
<daubers> really really wish the odd bits of tuition I had weren't of the order of "In VB you need to do this to make the GUI refresh" or "We do this here and this here to do this" and more of the "This is a class, it's a definition of an object"
<daubers> Having now gone back and tought myself all those more abstract bits, every language seems to make a lot more sense
<MartijnVdS> Meta-knowledge :)
<AlanBell> teaching vs training
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/ page peel :)
<popey> AlanBell: i think we should just make the site live
<popey> and then ask people to help fix stuff :)
<daubers> AlanBell: Psychodelic!
<MartijnVdS> psychodalek!
<daubers> HAH!
<MartijnVdS> ?
<daubers> Startup this weeks podcast, and from the other room I hear yelled "GEEK TIME" as the the song starts
<MartijnVdS> haha
<Azelphur> I'm having a problem with my joggler running ubuntu 10.10, http://pastebin.com/MWAUCjGy
<Azelphur> look at line 832 to 840
<Azelphur> it's remounting / as read-only, so I can't do much.
<AlanBell> daubers: it is a bit loud
<AlanBell> I failed in my various attempts to do it tastefully and neatly
<AlanBell> so decided to go the other way and invite someone else to do it better
<daubers> Heh :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: drive has a bad block in the journal. tbh you're lucky it works at all...
<_H> can I encrypt my home folder with aes256 and unmount it automatically on log out and mout at log in?
<Azelphur> ali1234: so it's a physical fault?
<MartijnVdS> _H: when you install Ubuntu there's an option to encrypt your home folder
<_H> http://www.linux.com/archive/feed/52820
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's a microsd in a usb reader, think it's card or reader?
<Azelphur> or no idea
<ali1234> card
<_H> I saw this see and I don't know how to take away the encryption
<Azelphur> righto
<_H> I don't know the encryption standard
<ali1234> end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 4067136 - this is the sector which failed
<_H> that's why I want to use aes256
<MartijnVdS> _H: "take away the encryption"? what do you mean>
<_H> the home folder is encrypted
<jpds> _H: Cool.
<MartijnVdS> yes, and it's unlocked on login and re-locked when your last sessions logs out
<_H> yes
<MartijnVdS> so what's the problem?
<_H> that's what I want to do. but I want to use encryption standard aes256
<_H> yes it may be slower but its unbreakable
<_H> nearly*
<jpds> "unbreakable" - debatable.
<daubers> Hah! "Very difficult to break" yes, unbreakable..... not convinced
<MartijnVdS> _H: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/06/migrating-to-encrypted-home-directory.html
<jacobw> unbreakable within practical paramteres :)
<_H> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard
<MartijnVdS> it don't know if you can set the cypher using ecryptfs-setup
<_H> it'd get me 9 months in prison for not giving the codes over
<daubers> _H: Things are only unbreakable until modern computing catches up in speed terms to brute force them.
<MartijnVdS> apparently AES256 is the default when using encrypted home already
<MartijnVdS> _H: Enough torture and you'll give them your password :)
<daubers> The lead pipe attack almost always works :)
<daubers> http://xkcd.com/538/
<OmNomSequitur> Does Ubuntu 10.10 have TRIM support?
<jpds> OmNomSequitur: Yes.
<OmNomSequitur> Does Ubuntu 10.10 have DVD playback support?
<BigRedS> I don't think it does 'out of the box'
<BigRedS> you need to enable the non-free repositories
<OmNomSequitur> Ah.
<MartijnVdS> but it's easy to install
<BigRedS> (free as in freedom - they don't cost anything, they just don't let you alter them)
<OmNomSequitur> What about Blu-ray support?
<MartijnVdS> I think it can play unencrypted DVDs out of the box
<MartijnVdS> blu-ray is harder
<BigRedS> I've no idea. I've still never seen a real-life blu-ray :)
<OmNomSequitur> You don't have a PS3? :O
<BigRedS> no, the only games console I've got is my mega drive
<BigRedS> Mega Drive > PS3
<BigRedS> or so I tell myself
<domjohnson> Which linux commands would you say need a GUI frontend?
<OmNomSequitur> You can't decode h.264 with a Mega Drive.
<OmNomSequitur> Believe me, I've tried.
<BigRedS> haha
<OmNomSequitur> domjohnson, the answer would be "nothing", in theory.
<OmNomSequitur> The GUI should just be a front-end for the CLI.
<jacobw> I would have thought the GUI is more a tool for people who don't know exactly what they want to do, but the CLI is a tool for people who already know exactly what they want to do
<jacobw> s/but/whereas
<BigRedS> jacobw: there's several GUIs I use where I know exactly what I want to do
<BigRedS> I don't believe the whole "GUIs are never as good as CLIs" line at all. There's no reason a GUI couldn't have the same advantages as a CLI
<ali1234> yes there is
<BigRedS> what's that reason?
<ali1234> scripting a GUI is overcomplicated and requires the GUI to be specially coded in the first place
<popey> pipes
<popey> and redirection
<popey> two reasons alone for not using GUIs
<ali1234> right, you can't make a log from a GUI
<AlanBell> gimp
<ali1234> you can't explain to people how to use it without screenshots etc
<AlanBell> and inkscape
<popey> Text mode gimp
<popey> Go north 10 pixels
<popey> pen down
<popey> actually, that's logo :)
<AlanBell> there actually is a cli interface to gimp
<ali1234> the choice between CLI and GUI is almost always an obvious one
<ali1234> there is no way you can say one is better than the other, or even that they are equal
<popey> i can understand GUI for creative tasks
<BigRedS> You could do redirection in a GUI, though it'd probably be clumsy. But there's no reason you couldn't script a GUI in the same way as you script, say, Gimp or Office
<popey> graphics and audio for example
<ali1234> scripting in gimp and office is over complicated and bears to tresemblance to normal usage of the program
<popey> well, indeed, the mac has Automator built in for exactly taht
<ali1234> scripting the CLI is identical to using the CLI
<BigRedS> well, basic scripting is
<BigRedS> most people don't have loops in normal usage and the like. but if you're going to be scripting productively, you're going to be learning how to do that
<ali1234> the other great thing about the CLI is it hasn't changed in 20 years, unlike UIs, which for some reason have to be totally redesigned every few years to look fashionable, and then everyone has to relearn it
<BigRedS> but there's no reason a GUI wouldn't have a way of sticking a bunch of tasks in for, while, find etc. loops.
<ali1234> you miss the point
<ali1234> a GUI can only do that if the author of the program spent time to actually create it
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> as in, if they bothered to make a good GUI
<ali1234> which 99.99% of developers will never do
<popey> (they do on OSX) :)
<BigRedS> I've not tried to say there *is* a good GUI. Just that the crap GUIs are crap because they're crap, not because they're GUIs.
<ali1234> this just proves the point that it is easier to make a good CLI than to make a good GUI
<BigRedS> But, say, AD is a pretty good GUI for what it's doing, and it has good text-based tools for when that's what you're after
<ali1234> what is AD?
<BigRedS> MS Active Directoryu
<BigRedS> I say 'good', I mean 'workable'
<ali1234> never used it
<daubers> BigRedS: Urgh, AD's gui is horrid. Open Directories is much nicer
<ali1234> closest i got to it was the permissions GUI on win2k, which is an abomination
<BigRedS> OK, so that's a better ldap-y gui :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Matt Daubney] Training vs Teaching - http://daubers.co.uk/2010/12/11/training-vs-teaching/
<ali1234> the problem is that learning the theory of programming is extremely hard if you don't have anything to relate it to
<BigRedS> yeah, I've had way more trouble getting the hang of oop than I should have done because I kept reading the theory and not just writing the code
<ali1234> oop in particular is something that only really clicks when you have already encountered the problem it is designed to solve
<BigRedS> yeah, that was my problem. Only about three weeks ago I basically looked up and went "Aha!", as it just made sense
<BigRedS> that was awesome.
<ali1234> if you learn the theory of oop and try to apply it without the necessary experience, you end up with code that is just as bad as if it did not use oop at all - with hundreds of pointless classes and lots of abstraction for no reason
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it helps if you have someone around who can set a good example :)
<MartijnVdS> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrinciplesOfObjectOrientedDesign :)
<ali1234> yeah see, that page does not actually teach you anything, it's just a bunch of complicated words...
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: unless you start reading the linked pages
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: things like "law of demeter"
<ali1234> "Each responsibility should be a separate class, because each responsibility is an axis of change. "
<ali1234> lol this is just meaningless nonsense
<popey> that's just a jumble of words to me
<MartijnVdS> It's "Model one thing in one class", but wordy
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I found. You just need to create some objects, fiddle with them, then stumble across soemthing that requires what you've learnt from teh fiddling
<ali1234> right, why can't they just write that then?
<BigRedS> repeatedly
<BigRedS> which is approximately how I managed procedural programming
<ali1234> is it perhaps because it's obvious?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: what about this guy's presentations then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEhu57pih5w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F72VULWFvc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlfLCWKxHJ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FRm3VPhseI
 * MartijnVdS learned a lot from those
<ali1234> also to say "a class should model one thing" s not really useful
<ali1234> because how do you define a "thing?"
<MartijnVdS> explaining "Global state is best avoided" with "Running the test suite cost me $100" is good :)
<ali1234> most "things" in the real world need several classes to model them
<MartijnVdS> (credit card processing)
<ali1234> if you take it to the logical extreme of each class only representing one "thing" then you might as well say don't use classes at all, just use int, float, char... because anything more complicated than those is more than one "thing"
<ali1234> none of this stuff is the least bit useful if you don't know how to even write a simple program
<MartijnVdS> SUre, but I thought we were talking about becoming a better programmer
<MartijnVdS> nog becoming a programmer in the first place :)
<MartijnVdS> not*
<ali1234> no, we are talking about becoming a programmer in the first place
<BigRedS> are we?
<BigRedS> well, you
<MartijnVdS> but that's the easy bit. Becoming a good one is the hard part :)
<BigRedS> I'm not saying much
<_H> my ubuntu desktop freezes often
<ali1234> specifically i'm talking about this teaching-vs-training blog post by daubers, linked above ^
<BigRedS> which is about him becoming a better programmer?
<MartijnVdS> I thought it was.. :)
<ali1234> "They were doing the training first in the hope it would teach you  something. What they should be doing is teaching you the concepts (all  the âmetaâ) and the[n] train you in the language."
<ali1234> i posit that this is wrong, and that teaching theory of oop (for example) must happen after basic language training, otherwise it is just a lot of meaningless words
<BigRedS> yeah, that makes sense
<BigRedS> But I, and apparently MartijnVdS , thought we were talking about this in teh context of a programmer learning more programming
<BigRedS> not someone new to programming
<ali1234> not at all, no
<BigRedS> Oh, well in that case I'm not sure anyone's disagreed with you yet
<BigRedS> 'cause we've both been talking about something else :)
<ali1234> except daubers :)
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, we disagree on what daubers was talking about :)
<BigRedS> _H: is there any pattern at all to the freezing? Only when particular apps are open, say?  What actually happens when it freezes? Does it ever unfreeze?
<_H> BigRedS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/542305/
<daubers> 15:35 < ali1234> i posit that this is wrong, and that teaching theory of oop (for example) must happen after basic language  training, otherwise it is just a lot of meaningless words
<daubers> ali1234: In some cases true, but an argument by example....
<matti> ;]
<daubers> ali1234: At Uni (lat year this is) we where taught VB6. The university upgraded all the PC's in the suite we where using and could no longer get licences for VB6 so we we're given VB.net. 90% of the people in the group got completley lost as they had no idea about basic things like what an integer really is, or what a class really is. They where just following by example as they had had none of the "meta" stuff at all. If we'd had the meta stuff then it 
<daubers> ali1234: In a lot of cases I can see it as a chicken and egg thing, but I think I mae the point in that we were given _none_ of the teaching stuff, just trained to use VB6. You need lots of teaching stuff and probably the same amount of the practical stuff as one without the other is meaningless
 * daubers is not very good at making his points clear (and or coherant)
<ali1234> i don't see how that could happen unless 90% of the people on your course were just cheating and copying the work from someone else
<daubers> ali1234: It was a physics course and they'd thrown in some programming stuff at the end.
<ali1234> physicists don't know what an integer is?
<daubers> Most people just bumbled along extending examples
<daubers> ali1234: Funnily enough, some physics students (in some unis) don't
<dutchie> the physicists at my university were being made to write C in their first term :)
<dutchie> but then, oxford
<daubers> dutchie: Yes, but you're at Oxford....
<daubers> dutchie: I made the argument at Uni that VB is a stupid language for scientific stuff
<ali1234> most people's first experience of programming is modifying an example program... it's the first thing i do when kicking the tyres on a new language...
<dutchie> it wouldn't have been my first thought, no
<daubers> But got ignored as everything else was "too difficult for the average student"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that and Hello World :)
<ali1234> nobody starts by writing hello world, they start by modifying hello world
<daubers> ali1234: Mine is normally either a book or a website.. then playing with hello world
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: copying it from the textbook ;)
<ali1234> you can't really learn theory without this experience
 * jacobw just copied Hello World from a Java textbook
<daubers> ali1234: No, but you're not really learning anything about how things work. You're learning how to modify someone elses program
<ali1234> and what is wrong with that?
<daubers> which is why most people struggled in moving to a slightly different language
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's a start, but it's not a complete (self-)education :)
<daubers> ali1234: Interestingly the 10% who didn't struggle did a CS module in the basic "meta" stuff of computing that involved no programming
<ali1234> correlation is not causation
<ali1234> they probably already knew it all and just did that module as a skive
<daubers> ali1234: No, but it can be used as some evidence towards that end
<daubers> ali1234: THere is also the old adage that everyone learns differently. I learn best by understanding what's going on, rather than just how to do something
<ali1234> to make a car analogy, this is rather like going to your first driving lesson and getting a lecture on organic chemistry and how the internal combustion engine works
<daubers> ali1234: Bit of an extreme car lesson. My first driving lesson did involve a short lecture on how the clutch connects to the gear box and what a syncromesh does though
<MartijnVdS> same for me
<MartijnVdS> also, "power steering explained" was a nice lesson :)
<daubers> Yeah, that was quite useful too
<ali1234> how is it useful?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: if you know how it works, you know how it breaks
<ali1234> does it help you in any way if, for example, you need to drive a car which is left-hand drive?
<daubers> ali1234: No, but it is useful if you go from a car that has no power steering to one that does. Lets you know what to expect
<MartijnVdS> same with gearboxes
<daubers> ali1234: Was also quite useful when my astra power steering went and I managed to figure out what was wrong by working up from the principles given
<ali1234> don't get me wrong, i'm not saying this should not be taught
<ali1234> but imagine if they made you learn all this stuff before they even let you get in a car
<ali1234> or, more aptly, if they tried to explain it to you before you had even *seen* a car
<daubers> ali1234: Right, which is why you get that information before doing that specific bit
<daubers> ali1234: Gearbox/syncromesh stuff really helped me get clutch control right, and I was taught that before starting the engine
<MartijnVdS> Someone could teach it to a passenger while driving though
<ali1234> well you can;t start the engine if you don't know how to use the clutch, it will just stall
<MartijnVdS> that would be even better
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: some starter motors are strong enough to start through handbrake and first gear :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've seen the wall
<ali1234> lol
<MartijnVdS> (someone in my street did that)
<ali1234> not in learner cars presumably
 * daubers needs to get the thud board out
<MartijnVdS> oh sure, but those tend to have two sets of pedals over here, so the instructor can avoid mistakes like that
<daubers> Does mean moving the telle :(
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Dual controls are scary
<MartijnVdS> daubers: They
<MartijnVdS> ahem
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Dads car has those, and I'm terrified of driving it with a passenger in case they do the "Side seat driver" thing
<MartijnVdS> I think they're mandatory here (for learner cars)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: No idea, the old mans a driving instructor and has them. I think they're an insurance condition .... not sure about legally mandatory though
<MartijnVdS> daubers: .nl might have different rules
<ali1234> they should put them on all cars
<ali1234> for the lulz
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: and in the back as well
<MartijnVdS> (imagine the taxis)
<ali1234> natch
<Azelphur> what should I use to securely share a single file with one client on LAN? :p
<Azelphur> atm I keep pushing the single file with scp, but that's kinda lame
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<Azelphur> afternoonings :)
<Azelphur> brobostigon: you just missed my question, what should I use to securely share a single file with one client on LAN? :p
<brobostigon> Azelphur: define share? do you jutwant copying, or full blown synchronisation?
<Azelphur> it's a sync thing
<Azelphur> it's so my PC can pass info to conky on my alarm clock :)
<brobostigon> so you want both to be equalallthe time?
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> atm I scp but it's kinda slow
<brobostigon> maybe you could setup rsync to automaticlly keep both ends equal?
<brobostigon> !info rsync
<lubotu3> rsync (source: rsync): fast remote file copy program (like rcp). In component main, is standard. Version 3.0.7-2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 333 kB, installed size 684 kB
<Azelphur> I was thinking a simple network share type thing would be more sensible
<Azelphur> like nfs or something
<brobostigon> will be more setup though, thanthe basic sshfs or scp you have already done.
<Azelphur> indeed, but faster
<brobostigon> tradeoff, energy - time.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> brobostigon: did you see my Linux powered alarm clock btw?
<brobostigon> Azelphur: sorry, no.
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/December%202010/IMG_20101208_021003.jpg :D
 * BigRedS wants one
<brobostigon> Azelphur: a joggler with ubuntu, :)
<Azelphur> indeed, and conky :D
<Azelphur> makes a good little alarm clock
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/November%202010/2010-11-12-215806_800x480_scrot.png there's the activity log in action :P
<BigRedS> that font would irritate the crap out of me within about ten minutes, though
<Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, the font looks cool but isn't that practical, I need to change it
<dogmatic69> does anyone know why, every second / third time i install or upgrade something it installation hangs
<dogmatic69> this happens with shell and the update manager
<dogmatic69> then i cant install anymore because the files are all locked
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: what's the 'something'?
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: "anything"
<dogmatic69> general updates
<dogmatic69> random programs
<dogmatic69> been happening since i installed 10.10
<BigRedS> Oh, so not OS upgrades
<dogmatic69> np
<dogmatic69> actual apps
<BigRedS> Whereabouts in the installation does it hang? Same place every time?
<dogmatic69> today its ssh
<dogmatic69> http://pastebin.com/Sar160cL
<BigRedS> yeah, but how far through? Are you doing this in a terminal or through a gui app?
<BigRedS> aha!
<dogmatic69> had to delete the lock files quick
<BigRedS> is it always at the unpacking stage?
<dogmatic69> i think so
<BigRedS> does an `apt-get upgrade dpkg` work?
<dogmatic69> last time it was suck unpacking header files
<popey> is your cpu overclocked?
<BigRedS> er, apt-get install dpkg
<dogmatic69> popey: it is :/
<brobostigon> man made curry, i reckon, :)
<dogmatic69> just a little though
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: no it does not
<dogmatic69> same thing
<bigcalm> While using tar, how might I deflate an archive without preserving the tree?
<popey> dogmatic69: wind down the overclocking
<dutchie> bigcalm: what do you mean deflate? do you have a tar archive, or do you want to createone all in one go
<dogmatic69> :(
<popey> dogmatic69: to test, if that "fixes" it then you know the problem
<dogmatic69> ye
<popey> hardware problem, not software
<dogmatic69> well never had an issue on 9.04
<bigcalm> dutchie: I have a .tar.bz2 that I need to unpack/deflate. But I want all of the files to end up in one directory, not in a preserved tree
<dogmatic69> *10.04
<popey> still, try it and see
<dogmatic69> only since using 10.10
<dutchie> bigcalm: there is an option to do arbitrary sed transforms on the paths of the files as it's being extracted
<dogmatic69> if it is the issue im getting better ram
<BigRedS> bigcalm: deflation's normally creating the tar file
<dogmatic69> brb
<bigcalm> Sorry, inflate then :)
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I remember there being an option, but I just failed to find it in man tar
<dutchie> bigcalm: --transform or --xform
<bigcalm> dutchie: neither turn up in the tar man page
<dutchie> bigcalm: they are on my man page
<bigcalm> I was using google'd pages
<bigcalm> Ok, I still don't know how to use sed :)
<dutchie> sed also has a man page
<bigcalm> Bored now
<dutchie> i suspect some way to get it to call basename would be easiest unless you fancy twisting your mind with regexps
<dogmatic69> popey: it worked
<dogmatic69> how you figured that out, idk
<dutchie> bigcalm: alternatively, untar it then "find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 mv -t ."
<dutchie> might be worth checking for unique filenames though...
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Nope, I want to overwrite them
<popey> dogmatic69: :)
<dogmatic69> mad skills
<sam_010203> is there anyway to have ubuntu in the "arabic hebrew" layout but without changing the language...?
<n3o> i dunno but i visited israel recently man, and hebrew well looks like alien writing man thought i was entering district 9 at the airport i swear ;). looks like a cool language though
<BigRedS> sam_010203: which bit of the layout are you after? (I can't help but I'm intrigued :)  )
<AlanBell> sam_010203: you mean rtl?
<sam_010203> AlanBell,  yeah
<sam_010203> i know i can change it all myself  but its a bit of a pain to move it all. lol
<AlanBell> sam_010203: have you tried changing the language?
<AlanBell> there isn't that much actually translated
<sam_010203> AlanBell,   i did but hebrew is all pretty much in hebrew and my hebrew isnt that good.  or there is arabic, and i dont understand a word.
<AlanBell> I tried both and some others when testing the Ubuntu font
<sam_010203> the hebrew font looks nice.    just so many words i dont understand.
<czajkowski> I offically hat epacking
<czajkowski> *hate packing
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've stopped unpacking when I move
<BigRedS> 'cause I know I can't be arsed to pack it up again when I move again
<czajkowski> this is just for going home
<czajkowski> won't be in this place for 3 weeks
<BigRedS> Oh, that sort of packing?
<TheOpenSourcerer> THREE WEEKS!
<BigRedS> I find that really easy. But I'm both male and simple :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> what about work czajkowski?
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: in bath for a week working
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah
<BigRedS> $days * (t-shirt, trousers, pants, socks) in a bag
<czajkowski> then working from home in ireland thanks to a nice understanding boss
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: cost of flights went up closer I stayed over here to xmas
<czajkowski> and the mothership would flip if I didnt go home
<TheOpenSourcerer> We have a paddy stying with us over Christmas.
<TheOpenSourcerer> wife's sister's hubby.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: your sister in laws hubby
<czajkowski> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah.
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: have the drink stocked up
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's not much of a drinker actually. More into cycling and fitness stuff.
<czajkowski> you sure he's Irish
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right - off to put kiddies to sleep then drink with the missus and write christmas cards.
<YaManicKill> hey geeks! hows it going
<freesitebuilder> geeks? where? who let 'em in?
<YaManicKill> heh :-P
 * kvarley just bought the Winterwarmer package! Hoodie and cup! :)
<OmNomSequitur> Each package comes with a lock of Shuttleworth hair.
<popey> heh, good luck with that
<popey> last time I saw him it was very short
<popey> maybe it was all cut off to go in the package!
<nperry> Ubuntu one music store download goes toward uk charts, doesn't it?
 * Nafallo listens to the latest podcast, and feels the dns discussion is very very old news ;-)
<Nafallo> people had seperate root servers online at least 5-6 years ago when I saw it :-)
<Nafallo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
<gord> number of times gord fell over on the ice: 1. number of times gord fell over on his hard wood floor in wool socks, countless :(
<czajkowski> hmmm may have been wise to test vpn earlier on in the week rather than today
<BigRedS> Nah, it'd only have broken in the interim that way
<Nafallo> popey: your home router thingie doesn't do .lan or something? :-)
<_H> I wish to down load a video flash from a site how can I do this?
<Flashtek> _H: wget ?
<_H> gets the whole page
<_H> not the video
<_H> I want/need the video alone
<suprengr> _H: http://tinyurl.com/2wyavxv     ???
<_H> suprengr:  takk but http://svtplay.se/v/2264028/wikirebels___the_documentary?cb,a1364145,1,f,-1/pb,a1364142,1,f,-1/pl,v,,2264028/sb,p118750,1,f,-1
<_H> won't support it
<jacobw> _H: use the video downloader extention for Firefox
<ali1234> _H: you can try this also: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/ffcache.py
<ali1234> go to video page, pause video, wait for it to fully buffer, then run the script and look for files of type FLV
<ali1234> or "Macromedia Flash Video" etc
<awilkins> I had a shell script somewhere
<ali1234> ^ that's a nice easy GUI
<awilkins> You used to be able to copy them out of /tmp
<ali1234> yeah i think mine checks /tmp too
<ali1234> and it scans using the file command
<awilkins> Now it deletes the temp file as soon as the video starts
<awilkins> So you have to copy them out of the kernel file handles list
<ali1234> mine still seems to work for youtube, at least some videos
<ali1234> heh, that's a good idea, scan /proc too
<ali1234> i might add that...
<awilkins> Find the ones that are from libflashplayer.so
<_H> ahh takk
<_H> tack sÃ¥ mycket
<awilkins> ali1234, Next time I'm at my other machine, I'll send you my shell script that does just that and copies the file to /Video
 * jacobw is sending back a faulty laptop :(
<penguin42> jacobw: What's up with it?
<jacobw> it takes about 20 hours to charge and has a wireless range of about 5ft
<jacobw> probably a power problem, not enough power getting to battery or the wireless card
<penguin42> weird
<jacobw> unfortunately, the sellers return policy seems to wash their hands of faulty products not diagnosed as faulty within 7 days of purchase, i purchased on last sunday (5th)
<Neil3> jacobw, i think trading standards would have something to say about that
<Neil3> purchase of goods act etc?
<jacobw> so unless i can get it diagnosed as faulty tommorow it is down to the manufacturer
<Neil3> i believe the seller is responsible
<Neil3> 7 days = crap
<jacobw> i may have to go down that route :(
<Neil3> jacobw, http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Consumerrights/DG_182935
<zleap> jacobw, surely its 7 working days
<jacobw> i would hope so zleap, but http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/returns doesn't specify
<maco> theyre not even accounting for shipping time?
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i think consumer law can overrule their own rules if their rules are wrong
<jacobw> yes, there is no way that i am keeping this faulty laptop
<maco> im surprised you have to take it somewhere for diagnosis
<maco> id figure just telling them "it doesnt work like it should" would count
<zleap> by not working does that mean won't turn on,  get error beeps other error
<jacobw> i don't have to take it anywhere, i need the fault confirmed by the maufacturers technical support, and then i need to pass that reference number on to the seller
<maco> zleap: scroll up
<zleap> ok
<zleap> sorry
<maco> oh wait you joined later
<zleap> yeah
<maco> zleap: he said it takes 20hr to charge
<zleap> ouch
<maco> and the wireless only works within 5ft of the AP
<jacobw> it takes 20 hours to charge and wifi range is ~5ft
<jacobw> at least saveonlaptops has a contact number so i can phone them up and frighten a representative
<ali1234> doesn't sound like a fault to me
<ali1234> just sayin...
<zleap> could be a faulty battery if its taking 20 hrs to charge
<ali1234> "not enough power" would make it not work at all...
<jacobw> why not? the charge time is stated 2.5 hours in the specifications and the range of is 802.11n 100's of feet
<jacobw> a faulty battery would still be a fault
<ali1234> 5ft wireless range could be caused by any number of things, not least interference and incompatible equipment
<ali1234> wireless is basically a mess and never works right, in my experience
<ali1234> have you tried charging while both switched on and switched off?
<ali1234> because both can run at a different rate depending on how the hardware works
<jacobw> it has an intel wifi link 5100 exactly the same as my laptop, it won't see wireless networks in same positions as my laptop will
<jacobw> yes, i have ali1234
<jacobw> and on different power outlets
<ali1234> big deal, i have two identical wireless cards here, one randomly drops packets on linux, the other works fine...
<ali1234> both atheros, supposed to be well supported
<jacobw> well one of them must be faulty
<ali1234> maybe, it sure is an odd fault though
<zleap> when you tell them its faulty let them know what you have done to help diagnose, so charged with laptop on and off
<zleap> which you say you have done
<jacobw> yeah, it will be a fustrating phone call because they'll be asking me to do all the things i've already done
<jacobw> *sigh* i'll deal with it on Monday
 * jacobw goes back to studying his Java textbook
<ali1234> can anyone recommend a good 23" monitor?
<MartijnVdS> dell monitors are nice
<ali1234> i want one that doesn't have a huge horrible bezel on it
<ali1234> i don't really care about anything else :)
<MartijnVdS> dell again :)(
<daubers> jacobw: Why java ooi?
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: any real difference between the ultrasharp and profession series?
<ali1234> U2311H looks like the one for me...
<MartijnVdS> no idea
<ali1234> ultrasharp seems to have better colour gamut
<ali1234> so better colour reproduction
<MartijnVdS> we have those at work
<jacobw> daubers: because i want to get a degree in computing from the open university, and they teach java
<MartijnVdS> they're great
<ali1234> ah, the ultrasharp has HDMI and usb 2.0 x4 as well
<ali1234> seems like overall pretty nice monitor
<jacobw> daubers: also, because out of the c++ book and the java book i ordered from amazon on tuesday, the java book has arrived
<Azelphur> ali1234: I just got the same io errors on a different microSD with a different reader :(
<ali1234> Azelphur: how so?
<ali1234> same type of reader?
<ali1234> if so, maybe it's one of those ones that lies about the disk size
<Azelphur> same type of card 2
<Azelphur> too
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/PEVBcqyD
<Azelphur> I bought 2 readers and 2 microSD's from the same place
<jacobw> java seems to be a good language to start with, because it has the core syntax of c/c++ with all the object orientated features of more modern languages
<daubers> jacobw: I see :) How far down the OU route are you?
<MartijnVdS> python is a good language to start with imho :)
<jacobw> daubers: i'm starting the level 1 courses in February
<MartijnVdS> java is so very extremely verbose
<ali1234> Azelphur: that's a different sector
<daubers> jacobw: OOooh
 * daubers is jealous
<Azelphur> +1 for python, jacobw java is weird now with oracle
<ali1234> did you buy cheapola SD cards?
<ali1234> from ebay?
 * Azelphur hides
<Azelphur> ali1234: worse, china.
<daubers> jacobw: How many are you doing at once?
<ali1234> Azelphur: everything comes from china...
<Azelphur> ali1234: I got it from dealextreme which is some chinese drop shipping company
<jacobw> daubers: i'm doing two at once, i've already studied a level 2 course in cisco networking on the OU so i think i'll be able to handle two courses
<Azelphur> that said the microsd cards are SanDisk class 4
<Azelphur> you'd think they wouldn't both die
<MartijnVdS> never believe chinese companies ;)
<jacobw> daubers: one of the courses is called 'networked living', i've already got a BTEC in communications technology so it should be fairly straightforward
<ali1234> sandisk aren't exactly known for being the best anyway
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> the readers are very cheap crap though
<Azelphur> they was like $2
<ali1234> SD readers are not complex though
<daubers> jacobw: Are you paying for it personally?
<ali1234> does it always fail on same sector with same card?
<Azelphur> they also get rather hot
<ali1234> yeah mine do too
<Azelphur> ali1234: not sure, guess I'll wait for the error to happen again and let you know
<jacobw> daubers: i've applied for and got financial support for one (i.e. they pay themselves for you to do it)
<ali1234> you probably shouldn't be using a journalling filesystem on SD card anyway
<jacobw> daubers: HOWEVER, after that i realised that due to both modules having their last presentation in February, to get the full points at level 1 i needed to do the other course at the same time
<Azelphur> ali1234: Ubuntu for joggler only comes in btrfs or ext4
<jacobw> daubers: this was after the application deadline for financial support, so i had to pay for that one
<ali1234> btrfs is supposed to be better for flash memory
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> the joggler page said that ext4 is faster
<Azelphur> but yea I can switch to btrfs I guess
<daubers> jacobw: i'd be very interested in how it goes. I want to do that course at some point when I'm not saving up for a mortgage
<ali1234> better not necessarily faster
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> you can run ext4 without the journal of course. but then its less safe
<Azelphur> oh hey, it's exobuzz :p
<ali1234> Azelphur: did you fix your arduino board yet?
<exobuzz> btrfs in ssd mode has some performance issues currently..
<Azelphur> ali1234: no rofl, I really need to get back on that
<Azelphur> exobuzz: I feel the need to wind you up by saying "YOU BROKE 2 MICROSD CARDS YOU OWE ME MONIEZ."
<Azelphur> hehe.
<Azelphur> ali1234: I guess I'll grab another microsd card and try with btrfs see how it goes, any recommendations?
<ali1234> not really
<jacobw> daubers: i've learnt a lot from reading Dougie Richardson's experiences of the OU at http://blog.lynxworks.eu/ou/
<Azelphur> haha
<exobuzz> from joggler.exotica.org.uk "The Ext4 journal may wear out your usb flash drive faster however." :)
<ali1234> heh, exactly :)
<exobuzz> its not like i didnt mention it
<Azelphur> exobuzz: haha yea I know, these are cheap crap that I picked up from some chinese store for $4
<Azelphur> I'm not surprised they went south
<ali1234> from the error, it looks like bad block in the journal area, so this is exactly what happened i would say
<daubers> jacobw: Hmmm.... might see what the christmas bonus lets me afford
<Azelphur> hehe
<exobuzz> having said that, my usb sticks used for development have had a lot of use and lots of writes including running journalled filesystems and still going
<jacobw> daubers: you might want to look in to financial support
<Azelphur> exobuzz: do you have really tiny ones by chance?
<exobuzz> some cheap 4gb usb pen drives
<Azelphur> I bought mine because they look flush with the joggler, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/December%202010/IMG_20101208_021003.jpg
<Azelphur> you can barely even see it, they do look good
<jacobw> daubers: i think i got it pretty automatically earning ~12k in the last tax year and having no A levels or degree
<exobuzz> you could run btrfs without compression but with ssd mode. just rsync the stuff off and change the mount options in fstab reformat and rsync it back
<jacobw> and having a disability, irrelevant to OU study but it still ticks a box somewhere
<exobuzz> Azelphur, what read speed did you get from them out of interest ?
<Azelphur> exobuzz: hehe don't really need the performance, it's for a clock, EXT4 was silly :)
<Azelphur> exobuzz: no idea
<daubers> jacobw: Yeah, I looked, but what they're offering me wasn't worth the paperwork (specially as my pay goes up in january again)
<ali1234> Azelphur: why even use ubuntu for that?
<exobuzz> Azelphur, tried jolicloud yet ?
<Azelphur> ali1234: conky alarm clock? who wouldn't want it :p
<Azelphur> exobuzz: nope
<ali1234> use gentoo, make a readonly rootfs with tmpfs mounts
<exobuzz> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/jolicloud/ - some nice points about it..
<exobuzz> some bad too
<jacobw> daubers: the cisco networking course i did on the OU didn't have much OU study material, all the material came from the cisco networking academy, so i can't really comment on the quality of OU courses yet
<ali1234> you wont have to worry about wearing out the sd cards
<Azelphur> exobuzz: fun, is it more suited for touch screens?
<exobuzz> for some stuff yeh
<Azelphur> ali1234: could do, that'd take long though, plus I like using it for mythtv
<ali1234> also i would throw in Qt and build my UI in QML rather than conky
<Azelphur> I was thinking about porting it to pyqt
<ali1234> actually you may as well put meego on it
<ali1234> handset is designed for touchscreen
<Azelphur> how is meego doing now?
<Azelphur> last I checked it wasn't ready
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> it's still not ready
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> ali1234: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-MB-MP4GEU-Micro-Extreme-Memory/dp/B00462RBLY/ref=dp_ob_title_ce how about this? :)
<ali1234> class 6 is good, sure
<Azelphur> that's what I figured :)
<ali1234> but i would just buy another cheap one and set it up so it isn;t constantly writing logs to the rootfs
<ali1234> btw did i mention i got a meego ideapad at the conference?
<exobuzz> the journal is more damaging than the logs. one issue with tmpfs stuff is that joggler has quit limited ram too.. well only 512mb..
<exobuzz> which isnt much once you got Xorg etc loaded
<Azelphur> ali1234: jelous, mucho jelous :p
<daubers> jacobw: CCNA?
<exobuzz> read only fs would work of course, but limit what you can do with it
<ali1234> not really
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234> you could have mythtv, browser, alarm clock app...
<ali1234> no problem at all
<exobuzz> yeh but you need to pre-set it up..
<Azelphur> I think I'll start with btrfs and a microsd card that cost more than a cup of coffee
<Azelphur> and if it still causes problems I'll go further
<ali1234> even better, network filesystem
<exobuzz> perhaps microsd is more sensitive to write wearing than other types.. depending whats underneath hardwarewise
<Azelphur> haha, that did actually pop into my head
<Azelphur> exobuzz: would it be easy to netboot a joggler?
<jacobw> daubers: yeah, i've not taken the CCNA exam yet though
<ali1234> yes, i think usb flash controllers have a lot better wear levelling than sd cards, which are very simple
<exobuzz> well. you could have a little dist that starts up then mounted root over the network easily enough.. but its going to be slow over wireless :)
<daubers> jacobw: It's quite easy
<ali1234> i think someone told me that once, i can't remember who it was though
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> that'd be a win win solution then
<ali1234> you only need to network mount /home
<Azelphur> I can easily get an ethernet cable next to my bed
<ali1234> to save settings
<exobuzz> i was looking at http://www.supertalent.com/products/stt_usb_detail.php?type=Pico as my perhaps next buy
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> bake all software into the image
<exobuzz> small enough .. and pretty quick
<ali1234> mount /var and /tmp as tmpfs
<exobuzz> ali1234, IF you dont intend to install more software etc
<ali1234> you can always bake a new image
<Azelphur> exobuzz: other thing I could do is use a laptop drive and a right-angle cable in the joggler
<Azelphur> would be just as small, could mount the drive behind the joggler and it'd be much more resiliant
<ali1234> actually as long as /var and /tmp are mounted on tmpfs you won't need to make ro partitions
<exobuzz> sure.. well. you could have all your porn i mean media files local too then
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> decisions :p
<exobuzz> http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11572 are quite small
<exobuzz> i heard they are not that quick either
<exobuzz> probably faster than a microsd though
<Azelphur> they look like they right sort of size
<Azelphur> although I don't like the silly thing poking out the back
<exobuzz> if you got with usb hd, you need a powered hub of course or some other power source
<jacobw> daubers: what programming language did you learn first?
<ali1234> instead of buying SD cards, why not buy a USB flash drive?
<exobuzz> i have a black one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-Vecco-Port-Mini-17014/dp/B003H78V7W
<jacobw> daubers: i've attempted to learn c++ many times in the past and given up at learning how pointers work
<exobuzz> ali1234, my link was a usb flash drive
<ali1234> yeah
<exobuzz> with that small hub, you can have everything behind anyway
<dutchie> jacobw: they point to stuff \o/
<ali1234> jacobw: get K&R, read chapter 7
<jacobw> i should get K&R
<ali1234> yes, you should get K&R
<jacobw> there are a lot of prgramming books i should get, i seem to have the ones that i shouldn't get
<ali1234> K&R is the only programming book you need
<ali1234> it's also the shortest one i've ever seen
<exobuzz> there are lots of tutorials online about pointers
<ali1234> i've never seen a better or more concise explanation of pointers than the one in K&R
<ali1234> see, they resist the "memory is like a row of boxes" metaphor
<exobuzz> i dont agree with the whole k&r preaching. i mean sure its "the" book. but its not good for learning from imho..
<ali1234> i really really hate that one
<exobuzz> as a beginner for example
<penguin42> jacobw: What is it that you don't get about them?
<ali1234> it's great for learning from
<exobuzz> i think it jumps in quite quickly.. i know plenty of people who wouldnt manage it as the first book
<ali1234> like it says on page 1, "C is not a large language and it is not served well by a large book"
<exobuzz> i have the book, but i dont have the comp.lang.c mentality, which is not a good one imho :)
<jacobw> i think i will read K&R once i've finished with this Java book
<exobuzz> programmers are the worst for being anti social, opinionated, and stubborn. not understanding anything else but their way and expecting everyone to understand the world as they do :)
<ali1234> well i can;t argue with that
<ali1234> what java and C++ books did you get btw?
<exobuzz> dont mention it if you have a book by Herbert Schildt just because ali1234 is about to tell you in that case how terrible it is, and then im going to switch off also :-)
<jacobw> ali1234: herbert schildt
<ali1234> for real? never heard of him...
<jacobw> (i've already been lambasted on ##java for that decision today)
<exobuzz> http://www.seebs.net/c/c_tcn4e.html
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> sounds bad
<exobuzz> i actually like much of the book. and i dont care..  :)
<jacobw> exobuzz: what i've read of the java book that i've got, i like it too
<jacobw> i think his writing style is good
<uraken> hello all does anyone have any experience of random music playing on ubuntu ?
<jacobw> i'm not a fan of the 'sacred texts' style of learning to do things
<daubers> jacobw: The first language I learnt was Sinclair BASIC
<MartijnVdS> not English? :P
<exobuzz> daubers, extend mode symbol shift 4ever
 * MartijnVdS started on GW-BASIC
<daubers> jacobw: Pointers confused the hell out of me for ages until I took a step back and tried to understand what they did
<exobuzz> i learnt speccy basic also
<MartijnVdS> then qbasic, quickbasic, turbo pascal, C, perl
<daubers> exobuzz: I've got a broken speccy waiting for me to have some time to give it some love
<uraken> i am convinced i have a problem on my pc (running ubuntu) as my mouse keeps moving and i just switched it on and opened firefox and music started to play?
<ali1234> the key to understanding pointers (and most things) is not to try to use them until you encounter the problem they solve
<Darael> uraken: tab from a saved session with something that plays music in it? (eg youtube video)
<daubers> I think mine went Sinclair BASIC, PHP, VBA, VB, C(bits of), Python, C (proper), Fortran (bits of) and now C++ :)
<uraken> umm not sure maybe darael?
<exobuzz> daubers, they need love.. and kinky rubbery sex
<daubers> ali1234: You can hit that issue quite quickly though, when you need to pass a pointer of an array to a function
<daubers> exobuzz: ...... maybe not as this is a 48k+. So no rubbery keys
 * penguin42 could suggest learning some assembler; once you've done assembler pointers are just intuitive
<Darael> Mine went Python, common lisp, C (bits of), VB (awful computing AS-level course), java (bits of).  People tend to ask why on earth I did CL.
<exobuzz> daubers, its rubber underneath! ;-)
<daubers> Hmmm, pass a pointer to an array
<daubers> exobuzz: As are most keyboards these days
<exobuzz> daubers, i got a 128k+ with +D.. not used it for a little while. also needs some love
<daubers> Oh! I did do a bit of C# on my gap year for some ASP.Net stuff
<exobuzz> Darael, python then VB.. that's just weird :-)
<daubers> exobuzz: Mines probab;y having it's mobo ditched and a modern one put in it :) Hoping I can convince the keyboard to work through USB or somesuch
<exobuzz> you are travelling backwards in time!
<Darael> exobuzz: Not my choice.
<exobuzz> daubers, what problems does it have. mine works great actually. it only needs love in the attention type, not fixing.
<uraken> darael thats exactly what it was ...paranoid or what thanks mate
<Darael> exobuzz: I was really annoyed when I found out that this year the teacher had got fed up with VB and moved to Python.  If only he'd done so a year earlier.
<exobuzz> some stuff is fixable..
<Darael> uraken: No probs.  It happens to me quite often :P
<exobuzz> Darael, sounds like was clinging on like ie6 :)
<daubers> exobuzz: No power supply and some of the buttons are worn
<exobuzz> you can get replacement membrane for keyboard for about Â£14 btw if some keys dont work
<jacobw> one of my motivations for learning Java is that my company has a number of horrific Java applications and i want to fix them :p
<ali1234> all java applications are horrific...
<Darael> exobuzz: Funny you should say that - my VIth form tried changing to Firefox but the tech couldn't work out how to lock it down so they went back to IE.  At least they went to IE7...
<exobuzz> power supply.. its erm 9v 1a or so i htink. you can get a generic one to use im sure.
<exobuzz> unregulated
<jacobw> ali1234: i suppose in the fullness of time i could reimplement them in C++
<jacobw> jEdit is a non-horrific Java application
<dutchie> i fail to see how re-implementing a java app in c++ would make it less horrific :)
<daubers> Hmmmm
<jacobw> memory usage
<daubers> Might have a play with that then
<daubers> anyway
<daubers> off to bed I think
<daubers> night all
<exobuzz> you should recode it in 68000 assembler. then realise you are spoilt with so many registers and do it in 6502 asm
<jacobw> night daubers
<jacobw> ha, i was born in '91, that is not a suitable task for a person of my age :)
<Darael> jacobw: I, born in '92, will now have to code whatever it is in 6502 asm just to disprove that statement.
<exobuzz> :)
<Darael> I'm not particularly happy about this.
#ubuntu-uk 2010-12-12
<jacobw> hehe
<ali1234> does anything actually still use 6502?
<exobuzz> ldahttp://www.ffd2.com/fridge/chacking/c=hacking1.txt
<ali1234> i know z80 is still in use
<exobuzz> oops. - lda
<exobuzz> http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/chacking/c=hacking1.txt
<exobuzz> a good start .. get your c64 emulator out and..
<exobuzz> :)
<Darael> Interestingly, my terminal correctly recognised the first one.
<exobuzz> The best way to learn machine language is to actually code routines that you
<exobuzz> don't think will work, hope that they work, and then figure out why they don't
<exobuzz> work. (If they do work, you try to figure out why you didn't think they'd
<exobuzz> work).  Ie: THE BEST WAY TO LEARN ANY PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS TO PROGRAM IN
<exobuzz> THAT LANGUAGE.
<ali1234> yes
<exobuzz> scuse the multi-line accident. i like that though :)
<ali1234> this is what i was saying earlier :)
<exobuzz> :)
<ali1234> you don't need no steeking books
<ali1234> *steenking
<Phineas> i have returned
 * MartijnVdS runs away
<Phineas> oh come on i'm not that scary
<Apacheuk> morning all o/
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<MartijnVdS> hi Apacheuk
<Apacheuk> so whats on the agenda today then?
<MartijnVdS> gym, gt5 :)
<MartijnVdS> http://imgur.com/Z1CPF.jpg
 * Phineas giggles
<Phineas> still as funny as hell
<Apacheuk> wife just brought up a lovely bacon roll and a cup of tea :)
<Phineas> Apacheuk,  lucky
<Phineas> Apacheuk,
<Phineas_> bot alert by far
<Apacheuk> was lovely... nom nom nom
<Phineas> Apacheuk,  lucky
<Phineas> nag nag nag nag
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/MCzfJ.jpg
<KrimZon> how can I add a samba user without having a linux user? (or at least a linux user that can do anything but access samba shares)
<MartijnVdS> simple question, long hard answer
<MartijnVdS> SAMBA has lots of good documentation on how to set up different scenarios
<MartijnVdS> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/
<MartijnVdS> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/passdb.html
<jacobw> morning
<KrimZon> MartijnVdS: thanks
<MartijnVdS> hi jacobw
<jacobw> o/
<daubers> Morning
<jacobw> morning daubers
<issyl0> AlanBell: Are you coming up today? :)
<moonpig> boo!
<suprengr> hey that's my line !!!
<AlanBell> issyl0: would love to, but don't think I can this time :(
<issyl0> AlanBell: aww, shame. :(
<balor> Why might a mic record at a low volume with gnome-sound-recorder, not show any levels in gome-volume-control and not work at all with Skype. Ubuntu 10.10 netbook edition.
<gord> balor, bad mic? it won't be working with skype because its so quiet it can't detect any voices
<MartijnVdS> "Mic amplification" flag is off in the mixer?
<czajkowski> balor: I've git my mini 9 working here fine with skype
<czajkowski> balor: nothing muted at all ?
 * gord sighs - can't even stream music on wifi today
<balor> czajkowski: noting is muted
<czajkowski> odd
<czajkowski> balor: pics!
<balor> MartijnVdS: I don't see that flag, am I being dumb?
<czajkowski> :D
<balor> czajkowski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQbTQmHGjcQ
<MartijnVdS> balor: it might not be there
<MartijnVdS> balor: USB or "normal" mic?
<MartijnVdS> balor: if "normal", did you plug it into the "mic" hole? (instead of line in)
<czajkowski> balor: awwww
<balor> MartijnVdS: it's an on-board jobbie
<czajkowski> balor: what does the monster think of it all?
<balor> MartijnVdS: And I have Duplex turned on.  It strangely works with gnome-sound-recorder.
<balor> czajkowski: I don't think it's hit him yet
<balor> czajkowski: but he's not a massive fan
<czajkowski> heh
<balor> It works with an external USB mike :(
<balor> I don't get this
<MartijnVdS> balor: it's the built-in soundcard that either doesn't have a mic amp or dosn't have it turned on
<balor> MartijnVdS: ok....I'll go looking for a magical switch.  Is this one of those cases where alsa-tools helps and magical kernel parameters?
<daubers> Blimey it's easy to freeze your nads off out there today
<suprengr> I am getting very disappointed with Ubuntu, my much trusted friend till now.  I have searched in packages and software centre under 'science'... there's nothing listed as "AN INSTANT CURE FOR FLU" :{
 * suprengr sulks and thinks of "One FLU Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
<MartijnVdS> daubers: that's what you get for getting on a _motorbike_ in winter :)
<balor> Found, my issue, but no fix http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.alsa.user/34732
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Yeah, but it's _masses_ of fun :D
<dutchie> until you hit a spot of black ice and die
<daubers> dutchie: Nonesense
<daubers> dutchie: It's not that bad out anyway! It's positive numbers out there.
<jacobw> indeed, the weather is much better now than it has been in the past few weeks
<jacobw> the top of the ice thawing is a bit dangerous though
<daubers> jacobw: I've registered my interest in starting the OU thing in October
<jacobw> daubers: cool :) which module?
<daubers> The new one which is replacing the main level 1 ones
<jacobw> daubers: so by registering your interest, you'll get an email telling you when you can register?
<daubers> TU100 I think
<jacobw> ergh. "My digital life"
<daubers> jacobw: Yeah, and can apply for the finance at that point to see if it's affordable
<daubers> jacobw: Yeah, reading into it it's relativley interesting  once your past the title. There's some hardware implimentation stuff in it
<daubers> jacobw: The titles very unfortunate though
<jacobw> daubers: yes, i don't think it is as bad as the title makes it sound, but i'd still prefer to do M150 and T175, not least because i already have a body of knowledge surrounding T175
<daubers> jacobw: Heh :)
<daubers> jacobw: I've done enough arduno stuff now to think that I have similar with TU100 :)
<jacobw> daubers: i've decided to read K&R, because it is shorter (finish it before Christmas?) than the Java book and more enjoyable
<daubers> jacobw: \o/ Everyone should read K&R
<jacobw> daubers: i keep reading the examples, pausing to improve the examples and then reading on to find they've improved the example in a way 100x better than mine
<jacobw> daubers: i think this is called.. learning :)
<daubers> heh
<daubers> jacobw: Always nice to feel you're catching up with the authors though
<jacobw> yeah :)
<MartijnVdS> em: "em" makes me think of http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail79.html
<balor> Looks like my PA is using the "wrong" internal mic.  I should be using front
<balor> But I've no idea how to fix this
<MartijnVdS> balor: you can't select it from the sound preferences?
<balor> MartijnVdS: no.
<balor> MartijnVdS: seems to be this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/434520
<balor> hmm...seeing some levels now...but very low
<czajkowski> balor: shouldn' you be oooing and ahhhhing over new LTS ?
<Nafallo> next LTS is quite far away still :-)
<balor> czajkowski: You'd think that.  I have to solve this for the mother-in-law
<czajkowski> whos machine is it ?
<balor> czajkowski: Mother in law's Ubuntu netbook
<czajkowski> ah she's there with ye
<balor> But it's about 7angsts of frustration away from being a Fedora netbook
<czajkowski> naturallly, not really what you want to deal with today tbh
<balor> nope
<Nafallo> ah. sound problems. won't be able to help with that I'm afraid.
<balor> Now _no_ sound is working...I broked it all
<jacobw> don't install fedora on a netbook, unpacking RPMs takes forever
<czajkowski> balor: step away from the machine, go make a cuppa tea, go cuddle newbie and then come back to it. if mother in law is there it can wait
<balor> jacobw: That characterisation of Fedora is about 5 years old and no, with presto RPM and RPM improvements, plainly false
<Nafallo> yum -i apt
<Nafallo> :-P
 * gord is hacking on fun unity stuffs today
<gord> fun way to spend a sunday
<Nafallo> gord: sounds like you're taking a swap day? ;-)
<gord> faaar to much to do before january for that ;)
<czajkowski> gord: january is ages away
<gord> factor in christmas downtime, its like two weeks away
<Pendulum> czajkowski: I wish january was ages away, but it's really not :-/
<gord> i only have this week then i'm on winter holidays as well, thats not a lot of time at all
<czajkowski> aye was 3 weeks Friday
<czajkowski> hmm dear taxi company please answer so I can book one
<czajkowski> Pendulum: Munster won :D
<gord> why can't taxi companies just have a text number or website for booking, its like its the 90's permanently with them
<ali1234> because people would put in mangled addresses etc
<ali1234> drunk people...
<gord> and drunk people on the phone are easy to handle?
<Nafallo> czajkowski: have you got addlee where you are? then tend to be quite good in London at least.
<ali1234> easier, yes
<ali1234> you can tell how drunk they are for one thing
<Pendulum> czajkowski: yay!
<dutchie> ali1234: all you need is an "are you drunk" tickbox
<dutchie> would solve everything
<Nafallo> god damn it. my glÃ¶gg cravings are unstatisfiable...
<ali1234> lol
<gord> dutchie, something tells me an "are you not drunk" checkbox would be more accurate
<gord> or just make the text small and hard to read
<ali1234> "i'm not NOT drunk!!!1"
<Nafallo> just put in a long password. helps on my computers when I'm less sober.
<gord> or just make the text small and hard to read
<gord> focus follows mouse fail :(
<skybinary> hi ubuntu-uk
<skybinary> i have this issue, and first i asked my gran, shes 92 ya know, now i will ask the experts
<skybinary> firefox crashes when i right click on flash, what should i do?
<Nafallo> skybinary: stop right clicking on flash?
<skybinary> Nafallo, NAN is that you?
<Nafallo> it seemed to be the obvious answer :-)
<skybinary> :)
<czajkowski> booked taxi
<skybinary> what about gnash, is that not an option?
<Nafallo> it is an option. I can't speak to the relevance of your interest however.
<skybinary> a solution
<skybinary> i found a solution, if your not void of a sense of humour it may entertain you
<skybinary> it says, right click on the flash and go to options
<Nafallo> haha
<balor> My mic issue is this one http://getsatisfaction.com/jolicloud/topics/deaf_internal_mic_on_acer_aspire_one  effing strange if you ask me
<balor> Oh....now I understand.  *I think* there are two mics doing noise cancellation!
<balor> For the days of a mono - dumb mic!
<kvarley> Is there a way to control fan speed within ubuntu?
<paln97> Hello
<kvarley> hi there
<paln97> how are you?
<jacobw> how do i get to vimtutor?
<jacobw> ignore me, that was a stupid question
<urcminister> just wondered if any of you can help me find the log for last nights meeting of #ubuntuadverts.  I looked in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/ but can't find any log that looks like the one I want.
<kvarley> paln97 good thanks - how are you?
<DJones> urcminister: Possibly best to ask in #ubuntu-irc I don't think I've ever heard of that channel in the official channel list, so if its a private/team channel, it may not be logged
<DJones> urcminister: Thats more of an admin channel for the #ubuntu* namespace so there may be somebody there who can help, although it might take a while to get an answer, its fairly quiet normally
<urcminister> Just go the answer from another member of the team.  It is logged, but the URL is down.  Thanks anyway.  Bye.
<DJones> urcminister: No worries
<danfish> czajkowski: ping
<paln> Hey guys!
<popey> hello
<bigcalm> Afternoon
<paln> Can anyone help me with booting from my Live CD?
<popey> whats the issue?
<paln> It's a 10.04 CD
<paln> I select "Install Ubuntu" from the menu and all is going fine...
<paln> but after a while the orange/white dots freeze
<popey> paln: how much ram does the machine have?
<popey> the computer should tell you during boot up
<paln> I'll find out now
<paln> It doesn't say at the POST screen at boot
<popey> it probably does in the BIOS
<popey> what is the make/model of computer?
<paln> It's an AMI BIOS dated at 2001...wanting to replace WinME
<popey> if you boot into the BIOS it will almost certainly tell you how much RAM the devices has
<paln> I'm looking it up in Lavalys' Everest
<popey> a machine of 2001 vintage probably has 128MB or less RAM I would imagine
<popey> which wouldn't be suitable for Ubuntu
<paln> hm...
<paln> What is the minimum required?
<popey> 256MB is the absolute minimum
<popey> but I'd recommend more if possible
<paln> Well I might upgrade my RAM to somewhere around 2GB soon, but for now I'm not too sure
<jacobw> xubuntu and lubuntu run on old computers
<jacobw> lubuntu is lighter than xubuntu
<paln> I'm checking in the BIOS now...
<popey> also crunchbang is worth a look
<paln> crunchbag?
<paln> I've never heard of that before
<daubers> #!
<jacobw> uh oh
<paln> On my CMOS menu I have "Main;Advanced;Security;Exit" tabs at the top
<paln> where do you think the RAM would be listed?
<paln> I can't seem to find it
<bigcalm> Just discovered Jarvis Cocker's Sunday Service. How wonderful and mellow :)
<popey> paln: main
<coffeebean8888> hi
<bigcalm> popey: any joy with the Joggler?
<Azelphur> popey: my joggler nuked 2 MicroSD cards :(
<Azelphur> both got bad sectors
<popey> eek
<paln> It shows date/time, floppy drives, "Primary IDE Master: 20417 MB", "Primary IDE Slave: Not Installed", "Secondary IDE Master: DVD-ROM" and "Secondary IDE Slave: CDROM"
<coffeebean8888> ubuntu is ok its not great
<bigcalm> I need to seak and distroy existing partitions on the memory stick
<coffeebean8888> the ubuntu uk podcasts are rubbish i listened to 2 minutes of them
<paln> @bigcalm: why not use Windows Computer Management or GPartEd
 * Azelphur slaps coffeebean8888 around a bit with a large trout
<jacobw> coffeebean8888: careful :o
<coffeebean8888> ha ha
<paln> popey?
<paln> popey, are you there?
<popey> paln: yup
<coffeebean8888> who has snow?
<paln> so, where do you think my RAM is...?
<popey> paln: inside your computer
<popey> Azelphur: using jolicloud 1.1 at the moment
<coffeebean8888> in a feild
<coffeebean8888> in a feild
<Azelphur> popey: cool, I still need to try that
<paln> popey: I get that, but where in my CMOS
<coffeebean8888> do u have sheep?
<paln> coffeebean8888: shut up :P
<popey> paln: i dunno, I can't see your computer, can I?
<coffeebean8888> u have ram but no sheep?
<bigcalm> paln: boot with the live CD. Open a terminal and type: free
<popey> bigcalm: i suspect it doesnt have enough ram to boot the live cd
<bigcalm> popey: I thought it was the install that was failing
<popey> sure, but he's chosen "install ubuntu" which doesn't start the full desktop
<popey> if the installer wont run, I'd be certain the desktop wont boot either
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> An old machine of mine would refuse to install any OS completely because the CMOS battery was flat. Weird but replacing it allowed an OS install
<popey> heh
<paln> bigcalm: really? cos that doesn't seem to make much sense...
<popey> ooo snow warning from thursday
<popey> win
<popey> paln: is there an OS on the machine already?
<popey> paln: what make and model of pc is it?
<bigcalm> paln: that's what it came down to
<paln> It's a Packard Bell, made 2001, not sure of the model either, but it has Windows Millenium Edition (crap) on it
<bigcalm> Sleet forecast for Thursday. Anything could happen between now and then
<coffeebean8888> yeah end of week its snow
<paln> Including me telling you to talk about something linux-related, bigcalm
<paln> bigcalm: Talk about something Linux-related!
<paln> I told you
<gord> gord hate cmake! gord smash!
<popey> paln: chill
<bigcalm> ...
<popey> paln: boot into Windows ME and determine RAm from there?
<bigcalm> I shall talk about kittens instead :)
<popey> \o/ kittens
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:   http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday December 16th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting  http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet |   Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â | Kittens \o/ \o/
<gord> kittens with mittens?
<popey> 3D kittens!
<bigcalm> I've seen some really cute kittens in TV adverts recently
<bigcalm> Want want want!
<paln> popey: so what do you think?
<popey> paln: observe the two lines above
<popey> 17:02:27 < popey> paln: boot into Windows ME and determine RAm from there?
<paln> popey: How?
<popey> paln: right click "my computer" choose "properties"
<popey> it tells you at the bottom how much ram it has
<paln> I can't seem to find any info anywhere!
<paln> Ok then
<paln> It's 128MB of RAM
<popey> :)
<popey> as I suspected :)
<paln> After all that!
<popey> exobuzz: where did you get the jolicloud iso from?
<paln> So in order to load Ubiquity I need how much RAM?
<paln> popey: http://www.jolicloud.com/
<paln> there's a Windows Installer and an ISO image
<popey> ooo 1.1 available for download now
<popey> cool
<popey> it was 1.0 when I last looked
<paln> yea
<paln> they released it pretty recently
<paln> i'd say last week!
<popey> yeah
<paln> Ok, so how old are all you guys?
<paln> Just asking
<bigcalm> A little older than our teeth
<popey> age here ranges from 13 to 40 or thereabouts
<popey> s/older/younger/
<popey> teeth start growing before you're born
<paln> really?
<paln> hm...
<bigcalm> Ah, but the teeth I have now I did not have when I was born
<popey> yes you did
<paln> hehe :D
<popey> unless they're false
<bigcalm> Some are :S
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Well, crowns
<moreati> popey: have your aldult teeth already started growing at birth?
<paln> moreati: i was just wondering the same thing...
<popey> they're inside your gums AIUI
<paln> "AIUI"?
<popey> As I Understand It
<paln> ah!
<bigcalm> Just found out that I haven't updated any packages on my eeepc since installing 10.10 on 10/10/10. This could take a while
<popey> :)
<paln> bigcalm: um...wouldn't Update Manager do that FOR you?
<paln> :/
 * bigcalm crosses his fingers and wishes that Unity will not be there upon reboot
<MartijnVdS> you can disable it in the gdm menu
<bigcalm> paln: I haven't used the netbook for a long time
<paln> oh...netbokk
<bigcalm> Also, I tend to manage updates from the CLI
<paln> now that makes sense!
<paln> well that's kinda dumb
<paln> (no offence!)
<bigcalm> Plenty taken
<paln> ;)
<Pendulum> bigcalm: do you have netbook edition or regular edition on your netbook?
<bigcalm> Pendulum: netbook
<bigcalm> It was UNR and I did a dist upgrade
<Pendulum> bigcalm: so you already had unity on it from when you dist upgraded?
<paln> Pendulum: I would think it obvious to have the Netbook edition on a netbook, seeing as most netbooks don't have CD drives and the interface would be cleaner for such a small screen
<Pendulum> paln: I use desktop on my netbook
<bigcalm> Pendulum: nope
<Pendulum> bigcalm: if you didn't already have unity as the main desktop for 10.10, I don't see why it'd change it to do updates
 * bigcalm shrugs
<penguin42> Pendulum: I'm fairly sure it will become the default if you upgrade to Natty
<penguin42> (You can still select 'classic')
<Pendulum> penguin42: yeah, but he was talking about doing updates on a netbook, not upgrading to Natty
<penguin42> oh ok, that shouldn't change from where it was I guess
<bigcalm> Not just now
<bigcalm> I upgraded from 10.04 to 10.10
<bigcalm> At that point it installed Unity
<Pendulum> bigcalm: right. but that was in October if I understand correctly, yes?
<bigcalm> Yes
<paln> penguin42: Yup, Natty will transfer Unity to the Desktop Edition aswell, but the classic GNOME interface is accessable before typing your password
<bigcalm> It's had Unity since October
<bigcalm> Could be why I haven't used it since
<penguin42> paln: Yeh, This <---- machine is running natty
<Pendulum> bigcalm: you can install desktop. works fine on my Mini10v
<Pendulum> (with a 16GB SSD)
<paln> If you look on 10.10 when you click your name, at the bottom it lists only "Ubuntu Desktop Edition" unless you install Unity
<Pendulum> paln: the netbook 10.10 is unity
<paln> yea, but not on desktop
<paln> unless you install it
<Pendulum> paln: right, but we've been talking about a netbook
<Pendulum> where the person said they had UNR or UNE (whichever it is now)
<paln> you can just do "sudo apt-get install unity"
<paln> then restart
<paln> What's everyone up to?
<bigcalm> 30mins later I get to reboot. That was productive
<paln> haha!
<czajkowski> danfish pong
 * DJones offers danfish some deodourant
<czajkowski> danfush on train to bath. on later or email me
<bigcalm> This SanDisk usb stick has a fake CD-ROM partition that I can not get rid of. I think that's why I can't get the Joggler to boot with it
<bigcalm> Time to dig out another stick and try again
<penguin42> bigcalm: Try the usb_modeswitch program
<penguin42> (not taht I know how to drive it)
<bigcalm> Heavy
<paln> Hey guys, I'm back!
<paln> popey: know of any distros that can handle 128MB of RAM?
<Azelphur> paln: debian?
<paln> I was thinking aside Debian itself but OK.
<paln> What about U-Lite?
<paln> Does that work <128MB RAM
<popey> paln: do you remember earlier on when you were here?
<popey> there were 3 suggestions given
<popey> lubuntu, xubuntu and crunchbang
<paln> #!
<paln> alrity then
<paln> thx popey
<paln> I'll probably try them out...
<denny> Hi all.  I need to get 3 more 'fans' on this Facebook page so I can set a vanity URL for it, would anyone like to 'like' it for ten minutes or so as a favour?  :)  http://www.facebook.com/pages/Police-State-UK/166638310038400
<popey> denny: you should know better than this
<paln> denny: Why ask here?
<sisto> popey: sup
<sisto> popey: i was listening to an episode of your podcast yesterday
<denny> I should?  I thought this channel was okay with a bit of off-topicness, particularly if it's relevant to UK
<popey> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<popey> specifically
<sisto> popey: i heard you appeared at one episode of net at night
<denny> I wasn't discussing politics.
<popey> offtopic is fine, it's the political discussions that get wearing in here
<denny> I was asking for a favour from Facebook users.
<popey> denny: I'm not going to argue with you about it
<denny> yah.
<popey> sisto: yeah
<sisto> that's awesome
<sisto> do you remember which episode?
<popey> ep 76
<sisto> i don't listen to that podcast
<sisto> thanks!!
<popey> me neither ;)
<sisto> i'll download it
<sisto> i do always listen to your podcast
<popey> thanks!
<sisto> and also some of leo's podcasts but not that one
 * MartijnVdS tries to listen to Linux Outlaws
<MartijnVdS> but sometimes they're _boring_
<popey> haha
<popey> all podcasts are sometimes
<popey> IMO
<sisto> sure
<MartijnVdS> there's a difference between "a few minutes per episode" and "three episodes in a row"
<sisto> haters
<sisto> haha
<sisto> instead of saying that you could suggest how to make it better
<popey> "be less boring"?
<sisto> haha
<sisto> i like when you use that kind of humor in the podcast
<MartijnVdS> sisto: hey, I'm not saying I know how to make it better
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<sisto> popey: do u guys get paid at all for all that work?
<MartijnVdS> in merchandise, I guess 8-)
<sisto> here take these 10000 free ubuntu CDs
<sisto> have fun
<popey> nope sisto
<popey> we get nothing
<MartijnVdS> not even kind words of encouragement?
<popey> we all pay for our own hardware, audio equipment, travel.. everything
<Azelphur> warm fuzzy feeling?
<popey> haha
<Azelphur> :D
<popey> both of those, yes
<popey> we even buy our own cake
<Azelphur> cake \o/
<MartijnVdS> cake should not be bought. It should be baked or given.
<sisto> so there is a cake?
<sisto> i thought it was a lie
<gord> what about people who make the best cake? surely they should be able to let others experience their great cake without becoming poor from not selling it
<sisto> i guess i've been playing too much portal
<gord> i like to support those excellent cake makers buy buying as much cake as possible!
<Azelphur> sisto: haha, I play Portal in Linux :)
<sisto> Azelphur: haha actually I haven't played it... i only watched my brother play it through. I'm probably really bad at it
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> sisto: I play a lot of TF2 too
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://tinyfugue.sourceforge.net/ ? :P
<Azelphur> haha
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Flashtek> o/
<Flashtek> here he is
<Flashtek> hi paul
<Flashtek> zleap:
<zleap> hi
<bigcalm> popey: do you find that the windows in Jodicloud are too wide for the joggler?
<sisto> what's the netbook edition icon bar called?
<sisto> unity?
<sisto> i don't remember
<popey> bigcalm: which windows?
<sisto> i like the unity icon bar but haven't tried it yet
<sisto> i should upgrade
<sisto> and try it
<sisto> is it too buggy?
 * sisto will wait for an answer
<bigcalm> popey: all windows. I just tapped on Facebook and part of it was off the screen
<sisto> i think jolicloud is better than chrome
<sisto> i need native apps
<gord> sisto, works very well on my natty system, its called a launcher btw
<czajkowski> whoo free wifi
<sisto> gord: thank you
<diplo> evening all
<sisto> hi
<daubers> Hmm... my graphing script in python really really overtaces the NSLU2 :(
<sisto> what
<sisto> daubers: i noticed it was a bad thing because of the sad face but couldn't grasp what you're talking about
<paln> I was wondering...are you guys based in a certain place, or are you just an online community?
<sisto> you know what uk means?
<sisto> actually i'm not from there so I the question isn't that bad
<paln> I mean do you have a location where you guys meet up every once in a while or something!
<paln> sisto: get out of our channel, then!!!!
<paln> ;D
<sisto> paln: lol
<MartijnVdS> Sometimes people meet, but usually informally
 * sisto cries and leaves
<MartijnVdS> there's a christmas thingy planned
<paln> yea, i read about that at loco.ubuntu.com
<paln> where is it?
<MartijnVdS> London
<paln> it just says thurs 1900-2200
 * popey points to the topic
<paln> i mean what building etc.
<popey> follow the link?
<paln> i gathered it's in London
<paln> what link?
<sisto> in the subject
<popey> 19:55:44  * popey points to the topic
<popey> Christmas party http://ubunt.eu/c2 â
<paln> it just says "popey points to the topic"...
<popey> yes, and the topic of this channel has a link which I just pasted
<paln> oh ok...thx!
<popey> paln: what irc client are you using?
<paln> XChat IRC from the Software Centre
<paln> only cos Empathy sucks wen using on IRC
<paln> otherwise it's kinda like eBuddy
<paln> but with more networks
<bigcalm> Type: /topic
<paln> yea, it appears at the top aswell
<paln> and i can edit it!
<bigcalm> Go on then
<paln> wha-? not channel operator?!?!?!?
<paln> damn u, security!
<MartijnVdS> you actually can't.. the channel is +t
<paln> "+t"?
<MartijnVdS> An IRC channel mode, meaning topic can only be changed by ops
<MartijnVdS> (channel operators)
<paln> i can edit it, but after pressing Return, i get "#ubuntu-uk: You are not the channel operator"
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<paln> :'(
<paln> popey: Almost finished d/l'ng Xubuntu Alternate CD ISO!
<popey> paln: personally I'd have gone with lubuntu or crunchbang :)
<paln> #gnna have ubuntu on my pc, on my pc, on my pc!#
<paln> eh...
<popey> I use crunchbang on my Intel Classmate
<popey> which is a painfully slow machine
<paln> crunchbag didn't appeal to me
<paln> and i couldn't find the iso from lubuntu.net
<paln> plus, i'd never heard of Lubuntu
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~gilir/lubuntu-10.10.iso
<paln> just Ubuntu, UNE, Edubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu
<paln> oh and debian
<paln> but i wanted something based on Ubuntu, not something Ubuntu was based on
<paln> Just out of curiosity, are any of you watching The X-Factor
<paln> that is, those of you from the UK (sisto?)
<sisto> what's lubuntu?
<paln> It's short for Light-Ubuntu
<paln> c wot i mean, popey?
<paln> no1s heard of it
<popey> i thought it was for lxde ubuntu
<popey> not light ubuntu
<sisto> is it kde based?
<popey> no
<popey> lxde :)
<sisto> o lxde
<paln> o right
<sisto> lxde is ok
<paln> i just took a random guess, seeing as it only needs 128MB RAM
 * bigcalm goes looking at usb hubs
<paln> Alright! Xubuntu ISO complete!
<bigcalm> The onscreen kb is irritating
<popey> bigcalm: let me know if you find a small sexy one
<paln> Gonna burn it to a CD-RW now!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> popey: 1st hit from googling "small sexy usb hub" http://www.everythingusb.com/lacie-hub4-usb-3.0-hub-20644.html
<sisto> cd-rw? why not just a plain cd-r?
<popey> sisto: reduce, reuse, recycle
<popey> </bob_the_builder>
<MartijnVdS> popey: map, reduce 8-)
<popey> bigcalm: nice
<sisto> :)
<popey> oh, hang on, usb3!
<czajkowski> popey: cheers for RT earlier on
<popey> np
<popey> was nice to see
<bigcalm> I assume that usb3 will still work with 1.1 and 2
<czajkowski> popey: aye it was :)
<popey> yeah
<paln> bigcalm: USBv3.0 has backwards compatibility
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-USB-2-0-Hub-bus-powered/dp/B0017X0R20/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292184657&sr=8-1
<paln> the only difference is "speed"
<paln> and "transition times"
<popey> for some reason I like usb hubs that have trailing leads
<paln> that is, IF you have a quad core processor...
<sisto> none of my computers support usb3
<sisto> stupid macbook
<popey> heh
<sisto> do they come with usb3 now?
<bigcalm> popey: that is nice looking
<sisto> i haven't checked
<popey> I have never seen a usb 3 device
<sisto> will check now
<popey> no sisto
<popey> no apple kit supports usb3
<sisto> lame
<bigcalm> I think I shall now purchase
<daubers> popey: There is a expressport to usb 3 card that works in MBP's
<sisto> well next gen apple stuff probably will
<sisto> i might get a pc next time though
<sisto> i didn't have a very good ubuntu experience with my macbook
<paln> So, are you Englanders watching the X-Factor?
<popey> daubers: sure, I meant native
<popey> paln: I'm not
 * popey hugs Ubuntu 10.10 on his MBP
<daubers> popey: :) Just being pedantic.
<sisto> haha
<bigcalm> popey: did it take forever and a day to install spotify on the joggler?
<popey> nope
<popey> although I didnt time it
<popey> it might have
<sisto> what's the expression? rub it in??
<bigcalm> I get the feeling that it's not actually getting anywhere
<popey> yeah, it did take a little while
<popey> patience :)
<popey> i walked away and left it
<paln> Burning ISO!
<paln> 9%...!
<paln> lol :D
<danfish> czajkowski: sorry - bathtime for kids et al
<czajkowski> np
<danfish> about the rugby meetup - good news and bad news
<czajkowski> the match is going ahead...
<paln> 35%...!
<danfish> found an excellent venue - the Northcote pub
<czajkowski> ok..
<danfish> the bad news (for me) I'm away at a conference that weekend :(
<czajkowski> danfish: oh bad bad timing
<paln> 54%...!
<czajkowski> danfish: might get the details off you re venue and post to list and create the event few folks may come, will just mean we will have a round II meet up
<danfish> czajkowski: my timing, as always, is dreadful :(
<paln> 75%...!
<czajkowski> paln: no need to keep telling us
<paln> 60 secs remaining...!
<czajkowski> danfish: and we gave you a ton of notice as well :(
<danfish> can't come to xmas do as working
<paln> there's no need, but there is an urge...
<czajkowski> paln: resist it then
<paln> 95%
<paln> 96%
<paln> 97%
<paln> 98%
<paln> 99%
<czajkowski> paln: will you stop please.
<paln> Hooray!
<czajkowski> danfish: I hope the conference is worth it !
<paln> czajkowski: Sorry, but I can't resist the urge! Plus, it's done now anyway...
<danfish> czajkowski: It's on sexual health and diseases - I'll post piccies :D
<czajkowski> danfish: I'm getting the better deal! Rugby and beer and Ubuntu :)
<danfish> czajkowski: :)
<paln> popey: How old are you? Unless you'd rather not say...
<popey> why?
<paln> just curious
<popey> why?
<paln> i'm 13, that's why
<paln> wanna see how old people round here are
<bigcalm> Mostly older than you
<popey> as I mentioned earlier, age ranges from 13 to 40
<popey> ish
<paln> are u sure?
<popey> yes
<danfish> 40+++
<paln> are u sure ur sure?
<paln> danfish: 40+++ = 42
<popey> i was being kind danfish :)
<paln> so how old ARE you?
<exobuzz> popey, take it you dont need an answer regarding jolicloud anything now? :)
<nperry> people that age shouldn't be allowed to use a computer danfish :P
<popey> exobuzz: what was the question?
<paln> nperry: totally agree
<bigcalm> paln: you're not going to get a response, so you can stop asking
<nperry> paln it was a joke :/
<paln> i can, but i won't...or will i?
<exobuzz> you asked about where i got the iso
 * danfish stabs popey with my walking stick
<paln> exobuzz: i told him it's http://www.jolicloud.com/
<exobuzz> right ok. sorted..
<popey> oh yeah
<popey> exobuzz: when your image went live they didnt have 1.1 on the site
<bigcalm> popey: spotify just finished installing. One must make and drink tea during installs
<exobuzz> i just installed it on virtualbox and then applied my packages and modifications etc
<exobuzz> popey, weird. maybe they pulled it as im sure i downloaded it from there
<popey> bigcalm: that sounds like the fix
<popey> how strange
<popey> nice image btw
<popey> remind me to buy you beer next time I see you
<exobuzz> jolicloud is growing on me. minus a few issues
<exobuzz> very kind thanks. :)
<popey> I want a replacement for the onboard os, jolicloud has come closest so far
<exobuzz> onboard flash is a little on the slow side mind
<popey> i dont use onboard
<popey> only usb
<paln> Alright, my Xubuntu CD's done. Gonna test it quickly...wish me luck!
<popey> paln: Good luck!
<exobuzz> aah ok.. sorry i thought you meant to replace internal os
<popey> (it wont work)
<popey> exobuzz: no, i just meant, to replace .. you know :
<exobuzz> enjoyed the last podcast btw..
<exobuzz> still got tons of archives to listen to
<paln> popey: Thanks a ton!
<paln> Alright, it booted!
<exobuzz> popey, wish jolicloud allowed adding of manual local apps with paths and icons. currently it allows you to select from a list that doesnt seem to pick up everything and im unsure the criteria. looking for some .desktop files in a certain location perhaps
<exobuzz> popey, also if you increase top panel size to make it more touch friendly, it overlaps the main html5 interface. cant find where the offset is. either in the browser, their remote site, or something else somewhere. might be fixable with some css overrides to their remote site, but rather fix it properly.
<paln> So, does Xubuntu run on the X Windowing System?
<paln> If not, why Xubuntu?
<exobuzz> Xfce
<nperry> XDE
<nperry> -E == face i'm making
<paln> exobuzz: Oh, right! I just looked it up here aswell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu
<paln> nperry: wha-? XDE?
<paln> didn't kno there was 1
<paln> I'm leaving guys!
<paln> see ya!
<bigcalm> Gotta say, the Joggler really is a one app at a time kind of device
<popey> :)
<popey> yup
<popey> exobuzz: you know what you should do?
<popey> make a very lean distro for joggler, very very lean
<popey> considered porting lxde? :)
<bigcalm> The clock in the default OS is great. I'd love to have that on this, but with a couple of tweaks
<popey> yeah
<bigcalm> Screen is blank, tap once and the clock appears
<popey> its just a swf, you could probably yank it off the flash disk inside
<bigcalm> Tap again and the screen blanks
<bigcalm> Double tap and the desktop appears
<popey> every app on the default install is just a swf
<bigcalm> Why did they pick Flash? Not really the most resource friendly language...
<bigcalm> So. Is there an iPlayer app? :D
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YcFULRcoFg
<sisto> .
<sisto> just trying the xchat timestamp
<bigcalm> Just found a 7 port hub
<bigcalm> And it works with memory, kb & mouse :D
<sisto> how many usb3 devices do you have?
<bigcalm> None
<bigcalm> I have just found the hub in a box of bits in the spare room
<sisto> at your house?
<bigcalm> Yes
<sisto> oh great
<bigcalm> So I just orded a new hub for no reason
<bigcalm> Except that it looks sexier than this one
<sisto> is this one usb3?
<bigcalm> No
<sisto> and the other one?
<bigcalm> I have no usb3 devices to use with it
<bigcalm> 2.0
<sisto> you are right
<sisto> you got it for no reason other than it is sexier
<sisto> lol
<bigcalm> I thought that the hub was dead (which is why I had stopped using it in the 1st place)
<dutchie> only 13339 more emails for offlinimap to sync from my archive folder \o/
<sisto> i have a usb hub with mug heater
<sisto> i don't use the mug heater though
<sisto> i thought it would be useful but it's really not
<bigcalm> popey: that's tiny!
<bigcalm> And why do you have more than one Joggler?
<exobuzz> popey, actually i thought about debian + fluxbox or something. but im getting bored of the joggler stuff now :)
<exobuzz> very basic, with just base stuff + X. nothing more..
<daubers> Gah! Why does this slow down!! Stupid stupid stupid program
<bigcalm> The most wanted woman, Barbra Streisand
<bigcalm> What a great track
<bigcalm> I think that it might be my headphones that make everything sound good though
<sisto> popey: i'm listening to you on the net@night episode :)
<exobuzz> nice video. hehe.. nice bug too ;-)
<bigcalm> popey: plug some decent headphones into the Joggler and let me know if you can hear a constant background noise?
<exobuzz> bigcalm, if you hear background noise, i have 3 different fixes :)
<bigcalm> Oh?
<exobuzz> detailed on my joggler pages
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> Linky?
<exobuzz> http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/
<bigcalm> Oh, doh
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I didn't realise that was your site :)
<bigcalm> exobuzz: thank you for creating something to make the Joggler useable :)
<exobuzz> np. i quite enjoyed doing it. apart from the website and documentation. :-)
<gordonjcp> 21:08 < bigcalm> I think that it might be my headphones that make everything  sound good though
<bigcalm> Documentation is a PitA
 * gordonjcp is working quite hard on making thing sounds good ;-)
<gordonjcp> "good" being 8-bit 14kHz sample rate, and sweepable resonant filters
<bigcalm> I like my cans :)
<daubers> GAHHHHH!
<daubers> Stupid MySQLdb
<exobuzz> but the circuitry of the joggler isnt basically very good to not have the cpu etc interfere with the audio, and it can very easily. people have similar issues on some motherboards with built in audio. but you can disable the cpu power/idle states and it should help.. although joggler will run warmer idle
<bigcalm> I was just testing the headphone socket
<exobuzz> by default my images switched between cstates 0 1 2 4 although i believe the cpu can do up to 6. for whatever reason the intel_idle driver didnt want to. before using acpi to switch the interference was even worse. some jogglers also suffer more than others
<exobuzz> it seems to affect the headphone socket more or be more audible from that
<exobuzz> one user has 4 jogglers. 2 are nice and quiet. 2 have horrible interference in the audio.. so there could be some hardware differences too
<exobuzz> the fixes on the page silence the interference for all 4 though.. you still might hear some slight background sound. its possible, but that could just be the shite sound hardware :)
<exobuzz> actually hte sound is pretty good considering.. but shite if you want something that sounds like Â£300 soundcard
<ipopey> Yo yo yo
<exobuzz> yoyo
<bigcalm> ipopey: sheep!
<bigcalm> exobuzz: aye, it's good for what it is
<bigcalm> This is going to work well as a bed side web device
<bigcalm> Need to sort out a clock though
<exobuzz> squeezeplay has a nice looking cock
<exobuzz> clock.
<Neil3> O_o
 * Neil3 pokes Dr Freud
<bigcalm> HAha
<neptune> dfsa
<exobuzz> ive obviously been in the gutter of the internets.
<exobuzz> used squeezeplay? i have a deb that works on jolicloud on the joggler site
<bigcalm> Can't say that I have
<exobuzz> nice way to listen to your music collection around the house.
<bigcalm> Humm
<exobuzz> client/server system
<exobuzz> you need the server on your fileserver with your music etc
<bigcalm> I really should centralise that on a linux box at some point
<bigcalm> Either I have sauage fingers, or the touch screen is very inaquirate
<bigcalm> Aha!!
<exobuzz> popey, your usb stick. what does hdparm -t say about it ?
<bigcalm> I can write my own stuff for this with PHP/JS/foo
<bigcalm> Humm, can you disable the screen saver?
<sisto> i had to increase the font size to notice what this character is... â
<sisto> it's great!
<bigcalm> Oh bugger to wikileaks
<bigcalm> Glad I did my amazon shopping before .co.uk went down
<ipopey> exobuzz: Dunno its in the other room and I am comfy :)
<exobuzz> i see.. well. for another time perhaps :) do you have a beer fridge within reach ? :)
<bigcalm> exobuzz: that's what children are for
<ipopey> Oh... Wifey on phone, will go do it now
<ipopey> Uhhh
<ipopey> How to get terminal?
<bigcalm> alt f1
<ipopey> No alt
<ipopey> I mean no f keys
<bigcalm> Not with the onscreen kb?
<ipopey> No
<bigcalm> There is on mine
<bigcalm> Odd
<sisto> what are you guys talking about?
<sisto> which device
<ipopey> Eh
<ipopey> How come
<ipopey> It's an option
<bigcalm> ipopey: on the Joggler?
<ipopey> Fr Florence
<ipopey> exobuzz: 13.01 mb/s
<ipopey> What do you get exobuzz bigcalm ?
 * popey has installed ssh on his joggler :)
<dwatkins> client, I assume, popey
<popey> server
<dwatkins> ah ok, so you're remotely connecting to it and running an IRC client inside a screen session or something?
<popey> not irc, no
<dwatkins> I want a gumstix PC
<popey> just ssh ing in
<exobuzz> ipopey, you can turn on f keys on florence keyboard
<dwatkins> oh, I was confused by the username, [i]popey ;-)
<exobuzz> you probably have my first image..
<exobuzz> i changed the defaults for second. also i added screen calibration to panel
<popey> dwatkins: ipopey is me on the ipad
<bigcalm> Timing buggered disk reads: 44 MB in 3.00 seconds = 14.67 MB/sec
<popey> ah exobuzz
<exobuzz> just wondering how fast those small usbs are. not terribe but not very quick either
<popey> thats better than mine bigcalm
<dwatkins> aha, I suspected an IOS device, ipopey
<popey> mine isnt usb
<exobuzz> oh
<popey> its an sdhc card
<bigcalm> SanDisk Cruzer 4gb
<exobuzz> aah. i would recommend then btrfs with or with compression but in ssd mode
<popey> i do have a 32GB cruzer
<exobuzz> not the ext4 image..
<popey> ok
<exobuzz> due to the journal destroyer of flash
<bigcalm> Oh
<exobuzz> especially it seems some types of card more than others
<bigcalm> I'm using ext4 on mine, would I be better of with btrfs?
<exobuzz> well. i only offer btrfs with compress which is a little slow at times.. ext4 is fast. depends if you care about a dead card or not or taking the risk :)
<Azelphur> is there any successor/similar device to the N900 roaming about yet?
<exobuzz> you can turn off compression in fstab and rsync the files off and back on again (mounting without compression)
<bigcalm> usb memory sticks are cheap
<Azelphur> something debiany so I can install real Linux apps to it but at the same time a phone
<bigcalm> Store everything in the cloud?
<bigcalm> Grr, cannie remember the sshd package name
<exobuzz> openssh-server
<popey> ssh
<popey> it will install openssh-server
<bigcalm> That's the one
<exobuzz> that too :D
<exobuzz> heh
<bigcalm> Oh, ok
<dwatkins> I collected my Ubuntu server yesterday, it had been offline for a fortnight, thanks to my Virgin Media cablemodem hanging :(
<dwatkins> I went to the trouble of putting a UPS on it, I should also have put a timer on the cablemodem's powersupply to turn it off for a minute each day.
<dwatkins> s/UPS on it/UPS on the server/
<exobuzz> :/
<bigcalm> popey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wqfl2
<bigcalm> Next on Thursday :)
<popey> :)
<shauno> is that the first episode thurs?
<sisto> I'm watching walking dead
 * bigcalm checks iPlayer
<sisto> watched all the episodes
<sisto> want more
<exobuzz> anyone here use iplayer on xbmc ?
<sisto> also watching big bang theory
<bigcalm> I tried it on Boxee, but found it more useable directly via the Virgin box
<exobuzz> boxee has a different implementation from xbmc
<exobuzz> they use flash i think
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> TBH, not used the revo as a TV device for months
<exobuzz> xbmc uses librtmp and streams it directly with a plugin interface
<bigcalm> It's almost exclusively the house server now without the desktop being used
<exobuzz> i still use my xbox1 for xbmc
<popey> i do too occasionally
<exobuzz> popey, you run xbmc on xbox1 ?
<exobuzz> cool. do you use the latest xbmc4xbox builds ?
<popey> yes
<popey> no
<popey> need to update it sometime
<exobuzz> http://www.sshcs.com/xbmc/?mode=NSAC&AR=XBOX for the latest built from svn
<popey> i worry I'm gonna brick it
<exobuzz> you could install it to another folder, and then launch it from the old one to test.
<popey> true
<exobuzz> http://www.xbmc4xbox.org/xbmc4xbox-3-0-reaches-beta2
<exobuzz> was working on it a fair amount before i got sidetracked with the joggler
<popey> yeah, need to update it, maybe at xmas
<exobuzz> (hence my interest in who is running it :D)
<popey> might poke you for help
<exobuzz> sure no probs
<popey> does iplayer work on it?
<exobuzz> yeh.
<popey> cool
<popey> never tried that
<exobuzz> i would like to have xbmc on the joggler of course. just waiting for next emgd release and hoping it fixes it
<exobuzz> intel said in a forum posting 1st quarter 2011..
<exobuzz> despite the fact their current one is only for xorg 1.6 or 1.7 and not 1.7 or 1.9.. :/
<exobuzz> i mean 1.6 or 1.8
<exobuzz> (all my joggler builds have xorg 1.8 .. jolicloud comes with 1.7.6 so its an upgrade. maverick comes with 1.9 so its a downgrade)
<popey> emgd?
<popey> will that support GMA500?
<exobuzz> emgd is one of three gfx drivers for the powervr stuff. it supports gma500
<exobuzz> but from what i heard for netbooks with gma500 psb driver is better for some stuff
<exobuzz> you also have iegd.. which isnt updated since march
<popey> nice
<popey> that would be great for lots of devices
<Azelphur> I'm thinking about a new phone
<Azelphur> I wish I could get a phone that could run desktop Linux apps and android apps and have a physical keyboard and be cheap rofl
<Azelphur> if only. :(
<niall> re: the pulseaudio issue which causes Totem to crash, is there a solution available through the update manager? Currently I'm just rm -rf'ing ~/.pulse when the issue arises, but clearly this incurs a penalty of loss of functionality with the system panel/dock applet.
<niall> Azelphur, use a bluetooth netbook as the audio device with a bluetooth phone of any sort that will also do SMS via bluetooth, job done?
<Azelphur> niall: except you can't walk and type on a netbook :p
<niall> Well, there is that. When I got an Xperia X10 I realised that it took two hands to type on it anyway and sold it again. Physical keyboards ftw.
<Azelphur> niall: my G1 has a physical keyboard and I type on it with 2 hands while walking :D
<niall> I should say, two hands and two eyes... that's too much of a sacrifice. With my N95 8GB, one hand, no eyes = perfect typing and navigation.
<stgraber> Azelphur: my n900 runs maemo so I can install most of what's in Debian, it dual-boots quite well on android and has a physical keyboard. It cost me 280GBP last year ;)
<niall> The N900 is very nice :)
<Azelphur> N900 is indeed on my short list :p
<niall> I'm happy with my old S60 brick and a netbook. Phones for phoning, computers for computing, IBM Model Ms for typing.
<Azelphur> stgraber: the problem with N900 is meego is no doubt gonna run bad on it :(
<niall> I wanted an N900 but they were out of stock by the time I got to renewing my contract. Thought about an N8 but saw the X10. Went for that. Sold it after a few days.
<niall> Also, few if any of these newer smart phones have the charging socket in the right place: at the bottom; It's hard to shove a phone into an active charging cradle in your car if it requires that you plug a cable in. My N95 just slides in and the charger plug mates perfectly with no fuss at all. That's a huge deal for me. I can't stand wires draped all over my centre console!
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> niall: I'm not bothered about wires, I want hackery :p
<niall> Ahh, well, I grok that, but my car is special. No *visible* hackery allowed.
<niall> Despite the mass of gadgets and amps and such, there are no wires, connectors, splitters, joiners or anything of the sort showing.
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I don't have a car :D
<bigcalm> <audio src="horse.ogg" controls="controls" autoplay="autoplay" loop="loop">
<bigcalm> It's all coming together nicely :)
<niall> Never thought I'd see the day but cars are more fun than networks imho. I seem to throw more money into and get more enjoyment from my car than any gadgets or gear I've had.
<bigcalm> popey: where are you likely to use your Joggler?
<ali1234> i just accidentally proved that sin(x) = sin(180-x) but unfortunately this does not explain why my code doesn't work :(
<bigcalm> x = 0 ?
 * gordonjcp has surprisingly few wires dangling around in the van
<gordonjcp> the only really exposed added wires are for spare aerials
<ali1234> no, x = any number
<bigcalm> Oh, 180 being the inverse?
<niall> gordonjcp, ham?
<gordonjcp> niall: yeah
<gordonjcp> niall: and pmr, I've got two radios for a UHF and a VHF trunked network and a conventional VHF radio for 2m and VHF midband PMR
<gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/van.jpg
<gordonjcp> ^ and a telescopic mast ;-)
<ali1234> bigcalm: it's the equivalent to cos(x) = cos(-x) ... since sin(90+x) = cos(x) ... it's shifted. in hindsight this is obvious, but i just spent an hour proving it, trying to find the bug in my trig code
<bigcalm> Hehe
<ali1234> trying to fit a circle of fixed radius into a corner (ie by tangents)
<ali1234> both the ways of doing it turned out to be the same
<dogmatic69> is there a way to symlink a whole lot of folders at once
<dogmatic69> eg: /dir/from/* /dir/to/
<dogmatic69> so all the folders in /dir/from will be in /dir/to
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Simple shell for loop
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> im rather new to *nix so not so simple :P
<penguin42> ok, so you want a symlink in /dir/to/flop to point to a directory in /dir/from/ called flop?
<dogmatic69> something like that /dir/from_existing_folder/{folder1|folder2|folder3} and should have /dir/to_existing_folder/{folder1|folder2|folder3}
<penguin42> something like for NAME in /dir/from/*; do ln -s $NAME /dir/to/`basename $NAME`; done
<sisto> dogmatic69: what do you need that for?
<dogmatic69> sisto: lazyness, im running cakephp which is in /var/www/frameworks/cakephp, my site is /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html
<dogmatic69> cake has a plugins folder, so i want to symlink the plugins from my site to cake so that i can set up other sites with the same stuff without the actual files
<dogmatic69> contents of /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html/plugins should be linked in /var/www/frameworks/cakephp/plugins
<penguin42> can't you just do one symlink?
<dogmatic69> not really, its actuall 3x different folders from my site to one folder in cake
<dogmatic69>  /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html/{plugins|core|developer} should all show in /var/www/frameworks/cakephp/plugins
<dogmatic69> sisto: so this is the whole command "for NAME in /dir/from/*; do ln -s $NAME /dir/to/`basename $NAME`; done"
<dogmatic69> without the "
<sisto> i'm not sure penguin42
<sisto> ...is the expert
<sisto> but it looks right to me
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Yeh try it on a directory you can afford to lose - I haven't checked it
<dogmatic69> the all git repos
<dogmatic69> can always hit the rebuild slice button :/
<sisto> dogmatic69: if you want to be sure check the syntax for the bash for loop
<BigRedS> looks about right
<dogmatic69> ill just give it a go
<dogmatic69> busy backing up the files
<BigRedS> I'd do a print in place of ln to check it's working
<sisto> yes you can use:  do echo "ln -s $NAME /dir/to/`basename $NAME`";
<sisto> i just made me a quesadilla with cheese ham mushrooms pomarola sauce and tabasco
<sisto> yum
<sisto> that made me remember about the make me a sandwich xkcd comic
<sisto> http://xkcd.com/149/
<dogmatic69> basename: missing operand
<dogmatic69> Try `basename --help' for more information.
<sisto> what did you run exactly?
<dogmatic69> echo "ln -s $NAME /var/www/sites/dogmatic69.com/public_html/plugins `basename $NAME`"
<dogmatic69> that should show a list right?
<sisto> i thought you were going to use the for loop
<sisto> i don't know what basename is
<BigRedS> given a path to a file, it returns the file name
<BigRedS> basically the element after the last '.'
<BigRedS> er, '/'
<dogmatic69> almost got it, just needs a / at the end of /path/to
<dogmatic69> now i got lots of /plugins{dir_name}
<dogmatic69> does rm /some/symlink only delete the symlink?
<dogmatic69> or will it go through the link and delete the actual files
<penguin42> it'll delete the symlink
<dogmatic69> thanks
<Guest71777> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-05
<Azelphur> wtf, I'm booting 11.10 from USB on my laptop, I heard the login screen sound so I assume it made it reasonably far
<Azelphur> but my screen is just cycling through colors, blue, white, black, red, green, and blue again
<Azelphur> the whole screen, cycling through those colors.
<czajkowski> aloha
<czajkowski> popey: ping
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> morning sent to pm not NSFW link
<Jutnux> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<DJones> Morning
<exobuzz> popey, https://ship.parcelforce.net/welcome - stupid web developers or stupid management ?
<exobuzz> they used to forbid you from using the site at all. i suppose this is an improvement from being totally crap to just crap
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> morning
<exobuzz> this should be on th efacebook thread. im getting my social networks all confused
<DJones> Oops http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16027006
<Myrtti> ooo, snow has stayed on the ground overnight
<hoover> morning all
<hoover> any git users / experts around?
<hoover> I'm wondering how to clone a git repo from this url:
<hoover> http://git.larsmichelsen.com/git/?p=nagios_downtime.git;a=summary
<hoover> git clone tells me that there's no repo on that address 8(
<Myrtti> nja
<Myrtti> used http://git.larsmichelsen.com/git/nagios_downtime.git and got fatal: not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
<hoover> yep
<hoover> I've also tried git: as a protocol, connection refused
<MooDoo> hello all
<hoover> morning
<Myrtti> wheeeee
<Myrtti> audible_bell \o/
<popey> thats a good thing is it?
<AlanBell> how did you do it Myrtti?
<Myrtti> well, if I've got irssi hilights, it seems that audible_bell passes through to screen and from screen to terminal and from terminal to Compiz and from Compiz to Unity, which makes the terminator icon wiggle in the unity bar
<Myrtti> could set the sound effect volume in PulseAudio to 0 if I disliked it, but as of now it's an excellent thing
<Myrtti> AlanBell: first I noticed that I didn't have it enabled in zsh, and I probably still don't
<Myrtti> second I checked if screen was set ok and it wasn't, but I have no way of telling if that was the case before yesterday when I had connection problems and had to kill screen and irssi
<Myrtti> then I tried xset b 100 and pactl upload-sample and well, seems to work now
<popey> â¥  get_iplayer
<Myrtti> yeah it's magnificent :->
<popey> ooh yay, i told get_iplayer to grab 'how to build', seems they're repeating series 1 somewhere, it's picked up one of those episodes as well as the 3 eps from series 2
<Myrtti> I've put the RSS feeds into liferea and liferea is rigged to start get_iplayer in a terminal when the title of the feeditem is clicked
<Myrtti> I'm usually interested in science, nature and history so it serves me well
<popey> i might go back to liferea
<Myrtti> it integrates nicely with memenu
<gord> i don't pay the licence fee so my version of get iplayer is go to amazon and buy the bluray :(
<bigcalm> gord: that's very well behaved of you
<popey> gord: you dont need to pay license fee to use get_iplayer
<Myrtti> I can only assume D pays it
<popey> you only need to pay license fee to watch live or near-live telly
<bigcalm> popey: but is it morally wrong?
<popey> not if the law says so
<gord> eh i'd feel bad
<popey> no different than watching non-live iplayer on bbc.co.uk
<daubers> Morning
<gord> to be honest, i only want the nature documentaries and i want them on bluray
<popey> lo
<gord> frozen planet comes out on the 8th!
<popey> heh
<Myrtti> popey: only difference is that you don't need to suffer the browser adding an extra layer of possible troubles
<bigcalm> alias get_iplayer_web_interface="cd ~/Music/iPlayer;perl get_iplayer.cgi --port=1935 --getiplayer=/usr/bin/get_iplayer --listen=127.0.0.1"
<popey> hmm, liferea comes with a podcast subscription which doesnt exist
<bigcalm> I <3 the web interface
<bigcalm> Reminds me of the mythtv interface quite a bit
<Myrtti> I wonder how slippery it's out there now the snow is there
<Myrtti> should walk to the other side of the suburb to run some errands
<dogmatic69> no snow in the west midlands
<gord> get the feeling we won't get snow this year, still not actually that cold
<dogmatic69> gord: where abouts are you?
<bigcalm> It's anybody's guess
 * Myrtti goes to take a picture
<gord> dogmatic69, crewe
<dogmatic69> looked like snow close to you on the news last night
<Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6458816607/
<bigcalm> Yay Tampere
<gord> fyi, snow that falls but does not stick, is not snow
<gord> do not trust it
<Myrtti> gord: well it's been there over 12 hours now
<gord> Myrtti, yeah not disputing your snow, your snow is very valid ;)
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<Myrtti> thohoho
<Myrtti> my snow â¥
 * popey files bug 900214 :D
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 900214 in liferea (Ubuntu) "Example feed should include Ubuntu Podcast" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900214
<Myrtti> popey: an Ubuntu podcast or the Ubuntu podcast?
<popey> how many are there? âº
<Myrtti> I thought there was full circle and some others
<Myrtti> I don't know, it's just that that bug name isn't unambiguous :-P
<popey> changed
<popey> bug 900214
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 900214 in liferea (Ubuntu) "Example feed should include Ubuntu Podcast(s)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900214
<popey> :D
<nigelb> popey: hah
<popey> will add similar for gpodder âº
<Myrtti> I wish there was a proper gpodder.net podcast client for Android
<Myrtti> I'd love to get rid of Listen
<Laney> morning
<Laney> i keep getting flats on me bike :(
<Myrtti> right, cup of tea consumed, time to get going
<gord> replace bike wheels with concrete wheels, problem solved
<Myrtti> haaaa cuecat to the rescue
<knightwise> hmmm
<knightwise> as a podcatcher Gpodder is quite ok on ubuntu
<knightwise> but i keep getting "user locale input settings" errors when i try to run Gpodder from the command line interface
<Myrtti> UK banks should develop something like what Finnish banks have - barcodes on the bottom of the paper bills. Makes paying individual bills easier. Of course nowadays would be easier if it were a qr code
<Myrtti> I got some USB cuecats from USA just for two purposes, random paper bills and librarything
<hoover> I'm also looking for a good android podcast client
<DJones> Myrtti: About QR code, the rugby team I watch has just brought out their new shirt for teh 2012 season, its supposed to have a QR code in the design to take you direct to the clubs website
<hoover> I just dumped podkicker after it turned my sd into read only for the umpteenth time
<hoover> I'm now back to downloading them manually on the htc's sd card and listening to them in the std music player
<knightwise> hoover: doggcatcher ?
<popey> hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_podcatchers#Android
<knightwise> hoover: i download them using gpodder and have an rsync script that kicks them over to my droid
<danfish> morning
<danfish> b'ah :( I'm officially banning Mondays. From now on it's a 6 day week.
<hoover> thanks for the link
<hoover> knightwise: yep, I was thinking of doing the same
<MooDoo> danfish: you wish :D
<danfish> MooDoo: I did wish - closed my eyes and clicked my heels together and everything
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> danfish: obviously you were not wearing red jeweled magic slippers
<bigcalm> I'm on holiday this week - so why am I working?
<bigcalm> I don't understand me
<MooDoo> bigcalm: crazy fool :) go do something else
<bigcalm> Might go and have a hair cut
<Guest63416> do chrimbo shopping
<Guest63416> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<Jutnux> Coach trip:(
<oimon> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<oimon> phew
<bigcalm> Will be doing xmas shopping on Saturday after the uu meal
 * AlanBell updates the booking
<bigcalm> Change in numbers?
<AlanBell> yeah, I booked 9 originally and we have 8
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> How do the numbers compare to what you had expected?
<AlanBell> less interest from canonical than I had expected, otherwise about what I thought
<bigcalm> Ah
<AlanBell> it isn't a cheap night
<bigcalm> Indeed not
<Laney> how much is it?
<bigcalm> I've got another xmas meal to attend with Hayley on the Thursday evening
<directhex> one
<bigcalm> 41 per head
<directhex> hundred
<directhex> beeeeelion
<directhex> dollars!
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> This is going to be a bit of an expensive week for me
<hoover> hey biggie
<hoover> I just ordered a Kindle Fire for my wife
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
 * Laney could be tempted to attend
<Laney> depending on trains ...
<Laney> is it too late?
<AlanBell> Laney: arrgh!
<Laney> did you just change it?
<Laney> if so don't worry
<AlanBell> well I can probably unchange it
<AlanBell> only sent the email 10 minutes ago
<Laney> no no don't put yourself out
<bigcalm> Laney: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
<AlanBell> not putting myself out, if you can make it then awesome, I will update them
<Laney> ta
<AlanBell> but it does cost me personally Â£35 for no-shows!
<Laney> hmm, last train back 2315
<bigcalm> There are 2 sittings per evening and the 2nd one starts at 9pm. So I assume that we'll be ushered out by 8.30pm. So the rest of the evening is free for a pub or something I guess
<AlanBell> yes
<bigcalm> I just started 2 sentences with 'so'. Somebody is going to be annoyed.
<AlanBell> so it won't be me
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> I recall popey apologising about starting with so. But I can't remember whom it was to
<popey> myself
<popey> hmm, going to be tight to get me and wifey there for 18:30
<popey> didnt realise they did two sittings
<bigcalm> Well, that's confusing
<Laney> mmm, first advance
<Laney> AlanBell: aye go on then, put me down
 * Laney buys train tickets
<bigcalm> Laney: join the event :)
<AlanBell> yay
<Laney> will do
<Laney> travelling first class on the way there
<Daviey> I'll be on a plane :(
 * Laney dons cool shades
<bigcalm> Laney: two Iains in one place. Lets be confused :)
<Laney> i'll be iron you be eeyane
<Daviey> Don't wanna make it the following week? :)
<Laney> going somewhere nice?
<bigcalm> My ex-gf went from me (Iain) to an Ian
<AlanBell> Laney: booking updated :)
<bigcalm> My fiancÃ©e went from an Ian to me (Iain)
<Laney> ty
<dutchie> my current gf has gone from a josh to a josh
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: by accident?
<Laney> argh
 * AlanBell wonders what the argh is
<Laney> silly loco website
<bigcalm> Highlight frenzy!
<AlanBell> oh, just that
<Laney> I was lookign for register in the grey menu
<Laney> but it's a link over to the right
<AlanBell> yes
<Laney> there we go
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: an accident she hasn't noticed for ~8 months if so
 * dutchie back to wondering why big shiny computer won't turn on after being moved from university to home
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: imagine her face when she notices! :)
 * Laney eyes east midlands trains
<Laney> rock & roll & booked
<MartijnVdS> rick & roll
<bigcalm> o.O
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  <-- like that, bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: aye, that'll do nicely :)
<bigcalm> Synergy doesn't like transmitting special chars
<bigcalm> Goodness me, there's a dubstep mix of Barbra Steisand: http://open.spotify.com/track/1OaBSDFIXcDn2YPD82uMHX
<MartijnVdS> :'(\
<bigcalm> Barbra Streisand
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_zwdmz0hE ?
<bigcalm> Yep
<bigcalm> Never seen the music vid though
<bigcalm> This is fun
<dutchie> :( can't work out what is wrong with my computer
<MooDoo> dutchie: have you tried turning it off and on again?
 * MooDoo ducks and runs
<dutchie> MooDoo: yes, but it won't even turn on :(
<gord> dutchie, is it that you are using it?
<bigcalm> User error. Replace user and press any key to continue
<bigcalm> Did somebody really make a keyboard with an 'any' key on it?
<gord> i think i saw a photochop of that once, but really you could just put a sticker with the word "any" on tilde or something
<bigcalm> Aye
<oimon> wow, office 2010 is hideous
<MooDoo> oimon: the ribbon isn't too nice, but it's useable
<oimon> it's very hard to use
<oimon> there's an indented paragraph that it impossible to unindent, and you can't see at a glance stuff like fonts used, and size
<oimon> i have to use it to edit a document and i['ve screwed it all up
<dogmatic69> is it possible to measure a clients bandwidth from a server somehow, with out action from them
<dogmatic69> while browsing a site maybe
<jpds> dogmatic69: ipref.
<dogmatic69> http://www.ipref.com/ :/
<jpds> $ apt-cache show iperf
<Myrtti> !info htop
<lubotu3> htop (source: htop): interactive processes viewer. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9-2 (natty), package size 57 kB, installed size 204 kB
 * oimon realises he's bought clementines instead of satsumas :(
<Laney> good choice
<siriusly> clementine is a good choice for a music player too ;)
<oimon> that's the only universe in which clementine is better...the universe of music players
<johnbristol> Is anyone familiar with a Samsung Printer Unified Driver / Ubuntu 64bit permissions compatibility issue? Googling shows others stuck on getting the CUPS driver to work, and the file manager generating infinite copies of itself, but I can't see a solution posted.
<popey> johnbristol: is there a bug filed?
<directhex> popey, closed-source crufft
<popey> johnbristol: the guy who looks after printing in Ubuntu is very attentive to printing bugs
<oimon> S.P.U.D. lol
<popey> ahhh
<popey> bummer
<johnbristol> it installed fine on Slackware, I'm trying to get the printer working for my brother
<oimon> which printer johnbristol?
<johnbristol> ML-1865
<oimon> i have some samsungs that i used existing ubuntu drivers instead of installnig that gubbins and they were completely compatible
<johnbristol> thank you oimon, I'll look inside CUPS for an alternative, that's a helpful idea
<oimon> e.g. The samsung ML2010 printers seem to work fine using the Samsung ML-1510 Foomatic/gdi driver.
<oimon> Also tested ML-2010 and ML-2240 successfully using the Samsung ML-4500 driver
<directhex> http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Samsung/Samsung-ML-1865W says only the samsung driver is known to work
<johnbristol> that's a helpful page directhex. SPUD's faultless on my linux box, I'm just stuck on getting it to function under Ubuntu. But I'll try oimon's suggestion and see if I can get another driver to bite. I suspect it's to do in part with a root permission.
<hoover> cheers all
<directhex> johnbristol, you personally shouldn't need special permissions to print - it's the cups daemon which runs the printer, so the cups user takes care of all that
<johnbristol> directhex, it was Nautilus spawning hundreds of jobs during the install which gave me that impression. I could easily be wrong.
<directhex> unified installers are always wrong, and written by people who are barely technically literate. sadly
<johnbristol> directhex, the unified installer was faultless for me on Slackware. I may just get him to buy an Ubuntu-recognized printer instead.
<directhex> johnbristol, the developer of the installer will have made completely wrong assumptions about linux, and those will fail hard on the "wrong" distro. e.g. using bashisms and declaring #!/bin/sh is a common one
<directhex> since sh is always bash, it's no problem using bashisms, right?
<AlanBell> /bin/sh -> dash
<Azelphur> woooo, got my laptop back
<Azelphur> sent it in for repair back in August, took so long \o/
 * oimon keeps getting cut on the cutting edge PPAs :(
<AlanBell> popey: how did you get on with learning vi?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: cool! at least it is back now.
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<s-fox> Hello.
<BigRedS> directhex: That's currently rivalling absence of <ifmod> for my #1 annoyance :)
<Azelphur> AlanBell: looks like my HDD size magically doubled too.
<Azelphur> can't complain xD
<oimon> chromium os lime released: http://blog.hexxeh.net/
<oimon> in case you forgot chrome/ium OS existed :)
<johnbristol> directhex, there's a working solution at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=341621 - I've added this for the archive in case anyone hits this discussion in future.
<Jutnux> Coach trip home,argh.
<Myrtti> !info audacity
<lubotu3> audacity (source: audacity): fast, cross-platform audio editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.3.13-3ubuntu1 (natty), package size 2421 kB, installed size 6364 kB
<Myrtti> meh
<AlanBell>                                                                                                                           jpds ^^^^^^
<Myrtti> Miia - avocados: 1 - 1
<gordonjcp> audacity is horrible
<gordonjcp> I can't believe that's the best we have for editing samples
<Myrtti> bought two to make quac, one was underripe and the other ended up being so stubborn with the seed I cut myself :-(
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: I agree on both accounts
<jpds> AlanBell: Not my bot.
<AlanBell> oh, who runs that one then?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: what does a good sample editor do?
<DJones> Isn't that bot tsimpsons
<Myrtti> if I could get all the features of Audacity in the UX of Jokosher with a bit more helpful experience, I'd be happy
<Myrtti> I want openshot of audio
<Myrtti> I like openshot.
<jpds> AlanBell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots#lubotu3
<ali1234> why can't you just use openshot?
<ali1234> audacity really is horrible
<AlanBell> I like openshot too, but it seems like audacity to me, there are tracks and you drag stuff on the tracks and chop them up and change levels and such
<ali1234> well yeah
<ali1234> but audacity is slow, annoying, and crashes all the time
<directhex> audacity is prime-time stuff. ION turntables ship with audacity for windows as their only software
<ali1234> but all A/V editors work like that
<AlanBell> I use it to remove noise, clip things to length and sometimes fade in and out
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: not look horrible, not crash all the time, not take ten minutes to import or export a sample
<GirlyGirl> Hi
<BigRedS> Hello
<jutnux> Does anyhone know when the Ubuntu mugs will be in stock?
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> no davmor2
<daubers> Eveing
<AlanBell> o/ daubers
<daubers> This evening I am mostly hacking on the hackspace website
<daubers> django ftw \o/
<MartijnVdS> you h4x0r you
<Myrtti> I'm mostly cursing at Audacity
<jutnux> Audacity :-(
<jacobw> which hackspace daubers ?
<daubers> jacobw: Reading
<daubers> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<daubers> HM Inland Revenue owe me monies!!!
<jutnux> Lucky you :-)
<daubers> Christmas has come early this year
<hux> the drinks are on daubers :)
<daubers> \o\
<daubers>  /o/
<daubers> \o/
<gord> reason i stopped paying my licence fee #315 http://balletnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/1066075-low_res-strictly-come-dancing-2-700x515.jpg
<daubers> ARGHHHHHHHHH
<hux> lol omg how much did they give U to make U tghat excited lol
<hux> does that ARGH mean they want it back now
<Myrtti> daubers: I got 470â¬ returned on Friday, but I knew about it in June already :-) goes to student loan repayments
<jutnux> Hhahahhahaha
<daubers> Myrtti: Mine was a bit more than that in Â£
<Myrtti> daubers: yeah well I calculate every year how much tax I should pay and I do calculate it a bit too big just to be safe, but not too much - it's interest free loan for the government after all
<daubers> Interestingly this was for 2006...
<daubers> Myrtti: This'll pay for my bike retest and a bit of money towards a holiday in Aus in a couple of years :)
<jutnux> Go too fast daubers?
<daubers> jutnux: No, wobbled a bit from nerves :( enough to cross a lane boundary
<jutnux> Ah right :-( What bike do you have
<jutnux> ?
<daubers> not got one at the moment
<monsterwizard> I'm reading about the branch and bounce algorithm the one with the estimiated function. Have I read this correctly?...To work out the estimated function time how mny more steps there are by 50
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> o/
<bigcalm> Hazar!
<bigcalm> AlanBell: have you conveyed my allergy information?
<AlanBell> I have, but I have to do so again on a form
<bigcalm> Cheers :)
<AlanBell> we have to do a menu choice form that I got sent today
<bigcalm> I trusted that you had, but Hayley insisted that I ask again
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I thought it was going to be a surprise
<AlanBell> it is, to an extent
<zleap> this raspberry pi is looking good http://www.raspberrypi.org/
<AlanBell> bigcalm: http://www.danslenoir.com/london/images/site/menu/menu.jpg
<AlanBell> white, blue, green or red
<bigcalm> Is it a choice per person or per booking?
<AlanBell> and starter&main, main&pud, or starter&main&pud
<AlanBell> per person
<bigcalm> Cool
 * AlanBell goes to email the 9 peeps
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I love causing people work :P
<popey> AlanBell: do you have wifeys email address?
<popey> guess it
<bigcalm> wifey@p... ?
<AlanBell> therealpopey@popey.com :)
<popey> clare
<AlanBell> yeah, I knew that ;)
<awilkins> Now, I'm really really annoyed
<awilkins> My *!"^&$^!" computer has decided that it likes to boot Ubuntu after all
<awilkins> Why now, no idea. You'd think being left off overnight would be enough if it was time-dependent
<Azelphur> HDD failure could explain it, try running a SMART test
<awilkins> Azelphur, SMART running all the time... it doesn't explain it, alas, it refused to boot off LiveUSBs as well - it would boot the loader, but wouldn't load the main kernel
<Azelphur> weird
<awilkins> But it would boot Windows fine... it runs memtest fine
<awilkins> It ran mprime for a solid hour with zero errors
<awilkins> But then it has a massive sulk, segfaults, hardlocks, blackscreen reset crashes
<awilkins> I'm wondering if I should get a UPS
<awilkins> I thought it might be the GPU.. was thinking of swapping in the old one
<awilkins> It runs Skyrim with no more crashes than average for a Bethesda game.. and no hardlocks or black resets in Windows
<awilkins> Bah
<ali1234> sounds like hardware problems
<ali1234> i need a new router. any suggestions?
<smittix> moodoo!
<Myrtti> ali1234: sadly I have to say "no Belkin"
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> well i'm looking at netgear or linksys
<ali1234> is it worth paying the extra to get a gigabit switch?
<awilkins> Depends whether you transfer very large files a lot
<Azelphur> So I finally got my inspiron duo tablet pc back, Trying to resolve the kernel panic when you plug/remove the power. It's a known issue that happens to all inspiron duo users. Anyone have any suggestions?
<ali1234> post the backtrace
<Azelphur> how do I post a kernel panic backtrace? there's not too much of a way to copy it
<Azelphur> I could take a photo, but it flies off the top of the screen
 * Azelphur prods ali1234
<shauno> Azelphur: serial port!
<ali1234> yeah
<Azelphur> it doesn't have one
<ali1234> change the console font to the really tiny one
<ali1234> then take a photo
<Azelphur> how do I do that? :D
<ali1234> recompile kernel
<Azelphur> \o/
<shauno> is there not something you can poke in /proc to get dumps these days?
<ali1234> probably not after a kernel panic
<shauno> not after, but if it's repeatable, he can do it before-hand?
<Azelphur> it's totally repeatable, just unplug and watch the magic \o/
<shauno> and no need to recompile for a tiny console font, vga=ask on the boot prompt and pick the least sane option you can find
<shauno> yeah, I have a usb soundcard that does the same thing on osx :/
<ali1234> try pci=noacpi
<Azelphur> ali1234: tried that, no luck
<Azelphur> doing vga=ask
<Azelphur> shauno: Legacy `ask` parameter no longer supported.
<shauno> pants
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<shauno> with linux, I'm starting to suspect I'm a legacy user
<shauno> .. "not supported"
<Azelphur> ali1234: is that much of it useful to you? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/December%202011/IMG_20111205_224319.jpg
<ali1234> yes
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> shift+pageup?
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope
<ali1234> try disabling smp
<Azelphur> how?
<ali1234> some kernel parameter
<Azelphur> k I'll go look that up \o/
<shauno> nosmp or maxcpus=0, unless that's legacy too
<shauno> (yes, zero, as wrong as that sounds)
<ali1234> man bootparam
<ali1234> those should both still work
<Azelphur> trying it now, not really a perm solution though
<ali1234> try to report this bug
<ali1234> also try using a recent mainline kernel
<Azelphur> it has been reported
<ali1234> where?
<Azelphur> I was looking for a ppa or something for that earlier but couldn't find one
<ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<Azelphur> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pm-utils/+bug/881043
<ali1234> try old ones too, it might be a regression
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 881043 in pm-utils (Ubuntu) "Dell inspiron duo crahses when plugging or unplugging the power adapter" [Undecided,Invalid]
<Azelphur> yea, that bug report says it's a regression
<ali1234> ok so you need to do a git bisect and find the regression
<ali1234> the first thing to do is find the newest kernel that works and the oldest kernel that doesn't work from the kernel ppa
<ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.39-oneiric/
<ali1234> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.0-oneiric/
<ali1234> try those :)
<Azelphur> righto
<ali1234> don't try the point releases if possible, it will just make the bisect harder
<ali1234> you know how to install those right?
<Azelphur> not really
<ali1234> is it 64 or 32?
<Azelphur> still panics with nosmp
<Azelphur> 64
<ali1234> do you need any dkms stuff?
<Azelphur> don't think so, no
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, get the headers anyway
<ali1234> you grab the two deb files that end with amd64 and the one that ands with all
<ali1234> dwownload them all to a folder like 2.6.39/
<Azelphur> ah, pretty easy
<ali1234> cd into folder and sudo dpkg -i *
<Azelphur> :)
<ali1234> then on boot hold left shift and select it from the menu
<ali1234> while you are doing that, you might want to set up a kernel build on your main PC because building kernels takes ages as you probrably know
<ali1234> you will want to git clone linus' tree
<Azelphur> ok
<ali1234> you can point it to an existing kernel tree if you have one, and it will not download it all again
<Azelphur> never done this before so I doubt I have :)
<ali1234> here is a guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/GitKernelBuild
<ali1234> you will want to run that on main PC and then copy of the deb files
<Azelphur> yay guides
<Azelphur> righto
<Azelphur> I'm just downloading the 2.6 and 3.0 debs to try
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> the idea is to find the working and not working debs
<ali1234> then you use git to find the point between those two versions where it stops working
<Azelphur> fun
<AlanBell> doing a kernel recompile at every step!
<AlanBell> that sounds like a process that would take weeks to do
<Azelphur> AlanBell: not on a 4ghz i7
<AlanBell> ok
<ali1234> AlanBell: it's a bisection. as in "cut in half"
<ali1234> so you start in the middle and take the midpoint at each step
<AlanBell> binary search
<ali1234> right
<AlanBell> how long does a kernel build take Azelphur
<AlanBell> oh, you are not there yet
<ali1234> half an hour or so
<Azelphur> ali1234: I installed those packages but no sign of the new kernels in the grub menus
<ali1234> maybe you need to run update-grub
 * Azelphur tries
<shauno> kernel builds feel like they never change.  it took 30-35 minutes on my 386
<shauno> er, 30-45.  but regardless
<ali1234> there's a lot more modules these days
<ali1234> if you disable them all, it takes 5 minutes
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope update-grub doesn't solve it either
<ali1234> maybe you have to install the debs individually then
<Azelphur> perhaps :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: nope, they seem to install but there's no mention of them in the grub menu
<ali1234> hmm
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-06
<ali1234> Azelphur: ok i just tried it
<Azelphur> fun
<ali1234> there's a new menu item "previous linux versions"
<ali1234> select it
<ali1234> they are in there
<Azelphur> ali1234: oops, guess they changed it, should have paid more attention to that one
<Azelphur> ali1234: happens in both kernels
<ali1234> try an older one then
<Azelphur> righto :p
<head_victim> Gday all, I've adapted a poster from spreadubuntu - http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/ubuntu-uk-installfests - and was hoping to credit the author when I upload it back with the changes I've made. Anyone know who created that one?
<shauno> head_victim, I believe that was AlanBell
<head_victim> shauno: ahh thanks for that, I'm sure he'll see the ping
<shauno> if you'll allow me a little spam ..
<shauno> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2010-August/025624.html
<shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmleones/4577067906/
<shauno> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uuk/installfest2.pdf
<shauno> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mmleones/4577067906/
<shauno> hm, the flickr links don't show in my client, sorry if they came thru twice
<shauno> (or not at all?)
<head_victim> They all came up here
<shauno> cool
<head_victim> I replaced the meerkats though but bascially just kept the rest of the format
<shauno> in retrospect, that seems so obvious that I'm not sure why the meerkat picture struck me as useful :)
<head_victim> Hah it's ok, I found it looking up the details of the poster just before
<shauno> but shy of mr bell being awake at this ungodly hour, that's as much use as I can come up with
<head_victim> Tis ok, he'll ping me either here or one of the other hundred channels we share when he wakes.
<head_victim> It's only 1130am here so I don't know what you're whinging about though ;) I love timezones.
<shauno> not a fan myself.  I think everyone should be on london time.  but last time that came up, people were trying to move london time :/
<shauno> (and just to ruin the stereotype, I'm not in the UK either)
 * Azelphur is just a night lurker \o/
<shauno> well yeah, you're just odd
<Azelphur> indeed
 * Azelphur puts a paper boat on shauno's head.
<Azelphur> slowly narrowing down on the kernel version that broke my laptop, looks like it happened a loooong time ago
<shauno> altho Ireland is on london time too, so that's no excuse for being awake.  just makes me sound less like an imperialist for wishing the whole world to march to the same beat
<Azelphur> it doesn't happen in 2.6.30 but does happen in 2.6.32, so looks like it was a regression from 2009 \o/
<shauno> I'm sure with enough git magic, you could figure out what patch it came in on
<shauno> put that mini-farm to some use building them :)
<Azelphur> yea, still playing "guess the magic number" with kernel versions \o/
<Azelphur> haha, don't think you can use GPU's to compile a Linux kernel
<Azelphur> probably a job for my PC ;)
<Azelphur> might actually bother to fix my clock before I do it, it's got a quad radiator on it it should do 4.5ghz no problem
<shauno> maybe not the gpus, but distcc could be worth playing with
<Azelphur> I doubt sempron 140's are gonna do much in the way of cpu gruntwork :P
<shauno> meh, you ruined a whole slew of beowulf cluster jokes by buying amd :/
<Azelphur> lol
<shauno> Really off-topic, but the bbc's iPad app is neat :)
<shauno> It's like home .. On-demand
<shauno> They need to add more red dwarf series tho
<Azelphur> shauno: I wish they didn't cancel stargate :(
<shauno> I never got into that
<shauno> well, I liked the first film.  but the tv series .. eh
<Azelphur> I watched the whole thing
<Azelphur> 10 odd years of the stuff
<Azelphur> then gg cliffhanger byebye
<Azelphur> P.S. that movie we promised you? Yea not gonna happen. So we're double cliffhangering you. Enjoy!
<shauno> I don't really get hung up on TV that much.  I just found the iplayer app comes in handy on weekend shifts
<Azelphur> hehe, I like to sit down while eating and watch some good TV
<shauno> unless the corp network has a funny fit and puts me on a UK netblock, which gets icky
<Azelphur> but there's less and less scifi around, it's annoying
<shauno> the iplayer app deletes all my saved shows and refuses to connect, if I appear to be within the UK
<Azelphur> that said maybe sometime soon there will be more free/CC stuff in that area
<shauno> and I have a 50/50 chance of appearing to be on verizon or BT, depending where the corp throws me that day
<Azelphur> RCVR was really cool :D
<Azelphur> ali1234: everything 2.6.30 doesn't appear to have the power glitch, but my keyboard and mouse don't work either \o/
<Azelphur> 2.6.31.1 has the issue
<Azelphur> not sure if there's anything between 2.6.31.1 and 2.6.30.10
<ali1234> those are further apart then 2.6.31 and 2.6.30
<Azelphur> 2.6.30 has the whole keyboard not working but no power bug either thing
<Azelphur> trying 2.6.31 now :)
<ali1234> 13 steps to bisect from .30 to .31
<Azelphur> ali1234: 2.6.31-02063101 is broken, 2.6.31-020631 works :D
<ali1234> you need to clone gregkh tree for that
<ali1234> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.31.y.git
<ali1234> that one, actually
<ali1234> add it as a remote
<Azelphur> do I just clone that?
<ali1234> did you already clone the kernel?
<Azelphur> no
<ali1234> then yes
<ali1234> looks like they've moved something
<Azelphur> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
<Azelphur> :<
<Azelphur> was I supposed to replace the y?
<ali1234> no
<Azelphur> then yea, that error :(
<ali1234> git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git
<Azelphur> I imagine that's gonna take a few hours to download
<Azelphur> so that'll be my cue to go to sleep and attack it again tomorrow after the download has completed, ty for all your help so far :D
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Thanks Ubuntu Weekly News Team - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/06/thanks-ubuntu-weekly-news-team/
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> hi head_victim o/
<imexil> whohooo the new UWN is finally readable again \o/
<head_victim> AlanBell: gday :) So you laying claim to that or do I credit the anonymous that uploaded it?
<bigcalm> Why I'm up this early on my week off I dunno
<bigcalm> Good morning people :)
<AlanBell> head_victim: all mine ;)
<AlanBell> not sure why I didn't log in to upload it
<head_victim> AlanBell: thanks, I'll link you the piece I created from your work
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> good to see it being useful
<head_victim> I suck at creativity, give me something I can modify to my needs and I'm happy
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Creating Experience Teams - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/12/06/creating-experience-teams/
<head_victim> AlanBell: http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/ubuntu-au-installfest tah dah!
<AlanBell> yay
<head_victim> Basically everything I've ever "created" for our LoCo has come from spreadubuntu
<czajkowski> bigcalm: you need to find a hobby
<bigcalm> czajkowski: coding in my spare time?
<czajkowski> eh no
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> I feel naughty and want a McD's breakfast
 * bigcalm starts to defrost the car
<smittix> Moaning all
<smittix> bigcalm: You tried the breakfast wraps?
<bigcalm> smittix: didn't know they did breakfast wraps. I normally just have me a sausage 'n egg muffin
<hoover> good morning all
<MooDoo> someone want me?
<AlanBell> not sure whether "yes" or "no" is the worse answer to that question
<MooDoo> lol :)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: i saw that someone has said moodoo but couldn't actually see who, will just trawl the logs
<AlanBell> 22:16 < smittix> moodoo!
<MooDoo> AlanBell: ah smittix me ole china, thanks, i did speak to him later on :)
<oimon> some swine has been stealing my milkshake from the fridge again :(
<daubers> oimon: Next time add some smallpox to it, you'll soon find the culprit
<oimon> daubers: is it fast acting?
<DJones> Does ubuntu work with the MTP proctol? Just wondering about this comment about the Xoom 2 "File transfer is handled solely through the MTP protocol so anyone with a Mac or Linux box is up a gumtree"
<oimon> i'd rather find the body next to the fridge, carton in hand, rather than not noticing a body in an office
<BigRedS> DJones: I've seen projects for MTP on Linux, but I've no idea on maturity
<DJones> Ah well, I'll cross that off my christmas list then
<BigRedS> DJones: Just get an iPod
<oimon> it sucks the amount of research you have to do before buying devices
<BigRedS> Oh, wait, that's not just a media player
<BigRedS> or it is, but it's not just music
<DJones> BigRedS: xoom 2 is a full tablet
<oimon> BigRedS was joking about the ipod (i hope)
<oimon> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=981774 has a thread about the xoom 1 on ubuntu with mtpfs
<oimon> but i'd wanna see a whole lot more evidence firs
<DJones> I've been thinking about an Android tablet, but I'm probably getting a Kobo ereader which I'll probably use a lot more
<BigRedS> oimon: No, it's the most hassle-free music player I've ever tried
<BigRedS> admittedly, I've had mine for ~5 years now and they've probably comne on leaps and bounds in that time
<oimon> BigRedS: recent ones don't work on ubuntu
<BigRedS> Oh. And that.
<oimon> wait for popey to get the asus transformer then we'll know if it works ok :)
<andylockran> :( I dislike InnoDB
<BigRedS> andylockran: It's the piss-your-data-up-against-the-wall storage engine. I don't know why anybody uses it
<oimon> If a device with a removable SD card, then it will support the USB mass storage.Â If only memory (Motorola Xoom or Galaxy Nexus), it will process (in general) the MTP and PTP.
<BigRedS> It seems daft to use a transactional storage engine that doesn't recover from a crash
<Myrtti> lovefilms moving to Silverlight? WWWWHHHYYYY
<Myrtti> why?
<oimon> i imagine mtp suppotr might get better if more android devices are gonna require it
<DJones> Myrtti: Movie studio pressure for drm
<MartijnVdS> I've opened several bugs with libmtp and banshee
<MartijnVdS> about xoom and galaxy nexus support
<MartijnVdS> but I can't find the Banshee MTP maintainer/dev
<DJones> Myrtti: http://blog.lovefilm.com/uncategorized/why-were-switching-from-flash-to-silverlight.html
<oimon> wonder if rhythmbox uses the same code
<Myrtti> DJones: well, I'm more concerned by the fact that I just read somewhere that Microsoft is dropping Silverlight
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<oimon> adobe is dropping flash for mobiles. how long before it drops flash for linux?
<MooDoo> so basically any one without windows or a decent new mac won't be able to watch it....sigh
<oimon> which is silly cos in the future many tv set top boxes will be android or ubuntu
<Myrtti> MooDoo: "Just to be clear â this change doesnât affect or apply to any of our streaming devices (PS3, iPad, internet TVs, etc); only PCs, laptops and Macs."
<Myrtti> all is not lost yet
<oimon> MartijnVdS: is the BBC program frozen planet showing in the netherlands?
<Myrtti> come on, quick, someone make a get_lovefilm
<czajkowski> oh I hope so, made watching the RWC2011 rather hard as they used silverlight
<gord> the point of the move is for DRM, so no get_lovefilm =\
<MartijnVdS> oimon: yes, but with a Dutch voiceover
<gord> lovefilm don't even want to move, their announcement is kinda funny, basically says movie companies made us
<oimon> i know NL is not DK but thinking of a christmas pressie for my sister in DK
<MartijnVdS> oimon: those BBC programs are sold around the world :)
<oimon> yeah but thought there might be a wait
<Myrtti> gord: I thought the early versions of get_iplayer emulated iPhones or something to get the good stuff
<gord> hrm, maybe that could work, guess it depends how their other versions work
<oimon> i haven't watched a film in yonks.
<oimon> they don't make them like they used to :(
<gord> i got piranha 3d yesterday! looking forward to that
<Myrtti> does LoveFilm still send real media in mail too? or have they moved to just streaming?
<smittix> bigcalm: Yeah the wraps are awesome.
<awilkins> Frozen planet is awesome, I loved the "brinicle" sequence
<smittix> MooDoo: o/
<Myrtti> they do send discs... maybe it's not lost cause after all
<gord> yeah, they send a lot of discs too
<gord> i was on the two discs at a time package, useful because i can watch movies whilst the other one is in the post. but they recently upgraded it to 3 discs at a time
<bigcalm> smittix: https://twitter.com/#!/bigcalm/status/143987928002076672
<awilkins> Ooh, that wrap looks ok
<awilkins> Although my heart belongs to the Subway Mega Breakfast
<awilkins> Or even better, the Pickles and Potter breakfast sandwich
<awilkins> (fancy sandwich deli in Leeds)
<MooDoo> smittix: hello there
<MooDoo> bigcalm: you disgust me......
<MooDoo> sausage and egg mcmuffin - there is no better :p
<bigcalm> Hehe
<awilkins> The wrap contains the same sausage patty, no doubt
<Myrtti> I find McD breakfast repulsive
<awilkins> THe sausage patty is what makes the muffin so good
<awilkins> WEll, yes, it's also repulsive
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I thought the same. But a couple of people suggested it and I thought I'd give it a go
<awilkins> It's like a 1-night nutritional stand
<bigcalm> :D
<awilkins> You enjoy it, but you hate yourself after
<bigcalm> I hate myself so much that I wanted it to last forever
<Myrtti> I prefer making my own most perfect scramble, lovely sausages and nice toast
<awilkins> Mmm
<Myrtti> just made scramble right now, actually
<Myrtti> two eggs, a bit of cheese (this time cottage cheese), pepper, salt and then microwave
<Myrtti> omnomnom
<Myrtti> nice, fluffy and moist.
<smittix> bigcalm: HEH!
<smittix> Told you they were full of awesome.
<bigcalm> I think it's the brown sauce that had me interested
<smittix> The egg is different too
<awilkins> Yeah, that's the secret to enjoying the Subway breakfast sarnie
<awilkins> Sliced fresh tomatoes and brown sauce
<hoover> How can I tell this a uk channel? ;-)
<smittix> Im hungry now
<MartijnVdS> hoover: the brown sauce?
<hoover> yeah, me too...
<hoover> most likely MartijnVdS
<smittix> Bloody vending machine here is a rip off. 70p for a snicker :/
<hoover> for a while now you've been able to get british stuff at the local supermarket here in germany
<hoover> no wonder with about 3,000 squaddies including family in town ;-)
<smittix> MooDoo: did you find out what was wrong the other day?
 * hoover 's addicted to Walker's Salt & Vinegar
<oimon> software repos vs windows "google for an installer file": http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/06/014244/downloadcom-bundling-adware-with-free-software?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
<awilkins> Yeah, I'm getting really narked off with that
<awilkins> It's distasteful when something asks you (default : yes) if you want to install the ask.com toolbar or whatever
<awilkins> But things that I like and use are now installing nasty things
<awilkins> like PDFCreator
<awilkins> Meaning that my exhortations like "Hey, why buy Adobe tools just for the PDF printer when <xxx> can do it for free!" make me look bad.
<oimon> i don't use windows much at all (use a win server once a month, if that), but when i have to use a laptop occasionally, i am shocked by the productivity difference between ubuntu and windows
<awilkins> Because the answer is now "Because adobe tools don't come with a free virus"
<awilkins> oimon, That too
<awilkins> oimon, The main thing Windows is good for is Office, which is a small part of my productivity
<oimon> and it's not familiarity, since i used to use windows everyday in my last job
<awilkins> I still use both - the laptop for Outlook and office documents, and the desktop with Ubuntu on it for actually doing stuff
<oimon> i get less stomach aches nowadays as a result (true fact)
<awilkins> I rather mislike things like SumatraPDF who's download page is scattered with a load of ads that look like "Download" buttons
<awilkins> And the real link is tiny
<Myrtti> PDFCreator has a virus?
<awilkins> PDFCreator installs some kind of evilware now
<MooDoo> pah my other just texted me to tell me she's havin an IKEA breakfast.....pah!
<Myrtti> awww
<awilkins> Meatballs and ligonberry jam for breakfast?
<awilkins> Wrong.
<MooDoo> lol no not meatballs :) full english i think
 * awilkins thinks ... swedish meatball and ligonberry jam pizza....
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> I cooked some crayfish and served them with a very spicy lingonberry and chilli jam
<gordonjcp> I call it...
<gordonjcp> Hardcore Swedish Prawn
<Myrtti> meatballs and lingonberry jam sounds wrong
<Myrtti> even in *my* ears
<Myrtti> of course if the meatballs were venison or elk...
<gordonjcp> mmm, venison
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<danfish> morning.
<danfish> VM failing badly this am here :(
<brobostigon> morning danfish
<oimon> i hear that a lot danfish
<gord> sigh, amazon have sent out the Â£5 plug extension lead i ordered at like 9pm last night via signed delivery... always embarrassing to have the truck roll up for something like that
<danfish> it's normally very good here - only outage in the past 6 months
<danfish> o/ brobostigon
<awilkins> I had some in the early days but very rarely now
<awilkins> I'm in the original Nynex Cablecom trial areas... you'd expect the infrastructure to be quite good here
 * danfish looks outside and sees a VM van parked up 100m away - must be doing some work
<popey> i popped out of the house and now have a card through my letter box from royal mail
<bigcalm> They wait for you to leave
<danfish> heh - feels true at times
<gord> it *is* true
<brobostigon> danfish: o/
<bigcalm> Anybody here managed to do some sort of threading in PHP?
<Myrtti> off to a raspberry pi networking event \o/
<bigcalm> Myrtti: have fun :)
<danfish> "Known broadband outage in your area - will be fixed at 01.27pm" suspiciously precise :/
 * bigcalm takes a break with Lego Pirates of the Caribbean 
<oimon> any good?
<bigcalm> The game?
<bigcalm> I'm a sucker for Tt Lego games
<bigcalm> They are all good
<bigcalm> Though the Indiana Jones Crystal Skull one was a bit pants
<bigcalm> As well as the recent Starwars one.
<bigcalm> New HP is out and on my Amazon wishlist :D
<oimon> i played one once, but didn't really get it
<oimon> think it was star wars and also indiana jones
<oimon> got bored v quickly, so did the kid i was playing it with
<directhex> raspberry pi is an important lesson in software freedom
<directhex> can't even make a bootable kernel without using a proprietary tool from the GPU vendor
<oimon> directhex: where u getting that info from?
<directhex> oimon, ARM kernel hackers
<directhex> http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard#BootRom
<oimon> i guess price was the factor in choosing broadcom?
<oimon> i wonder if raspberry pi could get my 14 yr old nephew into linux?
<oimon> ICT has killed his thirst for computer skills, and he prefers to play games
<directhex> ICT is the worst thing in the world ever
<directhex> clearly worse than hitler
<directhex> a GCSE for freaking clerical skills? why not knitting while you're at it?
<brobostigon> i did ICT at a-level
<oimon> i didn't know it existed at a-lvel
<oimon>  just got a next day delivery from amazon....I checked and I def did the super saver free one. result
<brobostigon> GNVQ, to be exact. counted when i did it, as two a-levels.
<gord> give the guy a server to run game servers on, good segway and you learn a lot about linux admin stuff
<oimon> gord: good point, he likes mincecraft
<awilkins> My main foray into Linux was building a MythTV box
<awilkins> At the time, I used Gentoo Linux because it was the only thing that supported the bleeding edge kernel trees with the drivers for my tuner hardware in it
<awilkins> If there's one plus side to Gentoo, you learn a lot about Linux internals by the time you've installed it
<awilkins> The downside was of course watching compiler scrollback for days on end
<oimon> what sort of spec does minecraft server need?
<directhex> i got into linux as an undergrad
<directhex> oimon, ALL THE RAMS. it's java
<oimon> oof
<directhex> at uni, the undergrad labs were half windows, half linux. the linux machines were much better spec, and always available, versus windows boxes being always full. no-brainer.
<awilkins> Ours were all Windows
<awilkins> Blee
<oimon> ours were sunos and solaris.
<awilkins> Running Windows 3.11 at the time
<awilkins> They would bleach-wipe the OS and reinstall it over the network every time they were rebooted
<directhex> we had some irix labs around the uni, but the main undergrad labs were all linux & windows
<directhex> comsci undergrad labs, that is
<awilkins> I kept an installer of Netscape Navigator in my network folder at all times
<directhex> we also had a student-run server accessible via nfs
<awilkins> Bloody hell, that was a long time ago
<directhex> awilkins, at school i worked out how to hide quake on the servers
<awilkins> directhex, At school, we used to upload machine code to the other BBC Master stations via Econet and run it remotely
<oimon> ah nostalgia
<directhex> awilkins, winzip self-extractor for a quake 1 install, renamed to vbrun400.dll, hidden on a default rm networks network share
<awilkins> An entire lab of 40 BBC Masters playing "Cold Tea" simultaneously
<oimon> i always thought that after using acorn/bbc, using linux is a natural path to take
<awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X374F0dhIks
<oimon> you couldn't help but tinker with machines in those days
<awilkins> Yeah, the reason the BBC fostered a culture of programmers in the UK was i) necessity is the mother of learning, as well as invention
<awilkins> ii) They had a fricking TV SERIES, for heavens sake, that was religiously VCRed and played back to all UK school children
<awilkins> With Chris Searle
<awilkins> You had to know low-level tech stuff to work the thing, because it had no high-level UI abstractions
<awilkins> Even gamers had to learn the "CHAIN" command
<awilkins> Bah
 * awilkins types *FX "GET OFF MY LAWN"
<awilkins> *FX, blimey - yes, you could call kernel routines, straight from the command line
<DJones> oimon: Re Minecraft server, this may help http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/837900-hardware-specs-to-run-a-server/
<oimon> cheers DJones
<directhex> awilkins, i've long lamented the lack of BBC Micro model C as the reason why the UK is crap for comsci skills these days
<awilkins> directhex, This is the niche the Pi is supposed to fit in I think
<awilkins> directhex, They are even putting actual BBC BASIC on it
<directhex> remember when the UK was a global powerhouse in game development, about 8 years after the BBC? that wasn't a coincidence
<oimon> until the govt removed the subsidies
<DJones> oimon: Or join #ubuntu-uk-minecraft and ask the same question, apart from pop ey, I think there's a few other people that have run or still do run servers
<awilkins> directhex, Yeah, the BBC, the Spectrum, they were the drivers of that revolution
<daubers> \o/ spectrum
<directhex> awilkins, or remember Logo? not programming per se, but...
<awilkins> Apprently the BBC BASIC on Pi really flies along (as you might expect for a processor about a gazillion times more powerful than a 2Mhz 6502)
<awilkins> directhex, Logo was programming. I went to a posh school - we had a Turtle
<awilkins> directhex, But the 12V molex connector on it was broken
<daubers> we had one of those too!
<Daviey> directhex: was it only 8 years?  Felt like a lot longer, waiting for the tape to load.
<directhex> awilkins, by obsessing over a physical turtle, you missed some of the best features of logo
<awilkins> Our IT teacher wrote the manual for COMAL
<Azelphur> is there a on screen keyboard that'll only appear when you click in an editbox like on android?
<oimon> i thought BBC Basic was the nuts until i discovered its limitations
<awilkins> I always thought that COMAL just had one letter too many as it sent me into a COMA
<directhex> awilkins, you could spawn up to 8 turtles at once, redraw them, and assign them non-drawing idle movement routines. so i did an animated cityscape once, with cars & trucks driving along at varying speeds
<awilkins> We had this MUD we ran on our file server - which was another BBC, with a tube adaptor and a double stacked 5.5" floppy drive
<directhex> took a while to do that one :p
<awilkins> We also ran play-by-turns versions of "It's a Crime"
<awilkins> (Which I hacked to give our team extra turns. The server was a bit trusting)
<oimon> DJones: specs look a bit high - don't have that kind of stuff spare...in fact, it's prob better than my main pc
<awilkins> It's a crime, blimey - back when people actually played turn-based RPGs by POST.
<awilkins> And paid for the privilege
<directhex> interesting note: collabora used to lease the original Science of Cambridge offices, which you should know about if you know your BBC/Sinclair history,
<directhex> king's parade
<oimon> bug 438868 thread has awoken again...
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 438868 in kile "Numerous applications have focus issues after emerging from a screensaver or suspend" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438868
<directhex> oimon, there are other focus issues in compiz which unity makes 100x worse
<oimon> unity just seems to be a massive waste of resources
<directhex> oimon, e.g. if you close a fullscreen window, and have other fullscreen windows open, you may be shown window X, but the focused window is window Y, so the close button closes Y not X
<directhex> Y is likely behind X
<awilkins> I've noticed that Unity pegs the performance mode of my GPU to top level, even if it's in "adaptive" mode
<directhex> so you need to move the mouse away from the title bar & check the window title
<awilkins> So I've forcibly locked it to mid-level instead
<oimon> canonical will never back out of unity will they ? :(
<awilkins> 10 degrees C lower temperature
<awilkins> I might lock it to lowest level, not like I do any 3D stuff, we can see if that's enough for Compiz doing a virtual flatland using 3D textures...
<daubers> le sigh
<gord> awilkins, basically its nvidia, they notice 3d stuff is being used so they set it to maximum no matter what is happening, compiz/unity doesn't require much, locking it to low couldn't hurt
<gord> unless its not nvidia then blame <author>
<awilkins> gord, I think it's nvidia
<DJones> oimon: Heh, I thought about setting a server up as well, but I think my home web connection wouldn't make it viable for more than 1 or 2 users
<awilkins> gord, I'm sure the 101Mhz clock speed is probably more than enough for the display, given the parallelism in there
<awilkins> I discovered I'm in VirginMedias "enhanced upload" zone
<gord> awilkins, i'd expect so, if you are playing a video and open the dash it might struggle a bit, we do a real time blur, but everything else is just drawing textures
<awilkins> 3Mbit/s upload on their 30Mbit package, whee
<directhex> i get 8mbit up, 38 down
<directhex> however, http is broken ^_^
<awilkins> Swings & roundabouts, eh
<directhex> bt's transparent proxy is being rather opaque today
<gord> no not swings and roundabouts... i get 2mbit down 1 up
<gord> >:(
<awilkins> I mostly wanted the higher package because the "throttling" limits are more generous
<awilkins> ie - I often want to download more than 750MB in an afternoon, and I don't want my connection cut to 25% speed if I exceed it
<awilkins> It was making me plan my downloads, like I was on a modem again
<DJones> Is this the slowest website in the world? http://www.ainovo.com/ Interesting new tablet with Android 4.0 for < $100
<gord> yeah, why i like be. its all unlimited, rate limiting makes no sense
<awilkins> "So, I can start to install Skyrim just before 2100 and it will be done in 2 hours, any earlier and it will take 8"
<awilkins> gord, Well, the rate limiting makes sense ; it's a contended resource. They at least don't cap your total usage.
<gord> be are trailing fibre at the moment, its all very exciting
<awilkins> I remember when the local router node was being swamped with torrentors - it had a serious shortage of RAM and CPU by the feel of it, was getting 150ms ping times to the local hop
<gord> well no, its mostly a way of getting people to upgrade. it doesn't make any sense otherwise
<oimon> DJones: We're sorry, the following item(s) isn't available at this time:
<awilkins> gord, Well, probably that too. The top level doesn't have a cap... so, they are gobbling up bandwidth at 10 times the speed... and you're throttling MY connection?
<gord> you can't have an unlimited plan (or high limits) then have a low limit plan unless the reasoning is that you want people to use the high limit/unlimited plan, its not a technical problem, its a business thing
<directhex> it's a lie btw
<directhex> empirical studies have shown 80% of traffic during peak times is from low-usage people
<directhex> the "heavy users" are not the problem
<awilkins> People watching youtube?
<awilkins> And iplayer?
<directhex> yeah, stuff like that
<directhex> normal reasonable stuff
<gord> limiting big users doesn't make any sense either, unless you just don't have the equipment to handle them (which is ridiculous for an ISP) - i read a good explanation the other day, if you take truck drivers, they are on the road like 80% of the time, constantly using it, but they don't cause traffic jams, its everyone else getting out from work at 5pm that does
<directhex> not everyone is downloading a 27 gig game from origin during peak times, and even if they are, they paid for it!
<daubers> directhex: I wouldn't say the stuff on youtube is "normal" or "reasonable" 90% of the time :p
<awilkins> I can imagine torrents causing more strain on routers CPU / RAM rather than bandwidth problems
<directhex> i get 38 down, 8 up, without a bandwidth cap or throttling... but it's BT, so i don't trust them. and today's http breakage shows that :p
<awilkins> I think the 30Mbit/s plan will be enough for the forseeable future
<awilkins> I can't conceive of a need to download 5GB between 1600 and 2100
<awilkins> Or 10GB between 1000 and 1500
<iclebyte> BT had issues?
<awilkins> That hour in the middle is good too - 1500 to 1600, no throttling counter :)
<awilkins> Start your game download at about 1500
<gord> internet tv could easily use up 5GB an hour
<awilkins> Hmm, which is about 10Mbit/s ... which the throttled rate of 7.5Mbit/s doesn't quite cover
<awilkins> I've seen some of the bigger BBC 1 streams consume about 15Mbit/s, but that's SD MPEG2
<awilkins> (This is broadcast TS streams on FreeView via a DVB-T tuner)
<gord> i did not mean 5GB an hour -_-
<gord> that would be insane
<gord> 5GB in 5 hours
<awilkins> True, but I'm unlikely to be actually watching during those 5 hours
<awilkins> I get home around 1930 or later most nights
<awilkins> I suppose at a weekend
<awilkins> But I'm really happy with MythTV so I have great caching :-)
<awilkins> Adding pre-caching of content to MythTV would be great
<awilkins> Wifelet resists upgrading the software though
<awilkins> She has got used to the current theme and it's not available in Mythbuntu after the Karmic distribution
<awilkins> Still works just fine, even if I can't do an apt update because the repositories have all gone
<gord> i do the same thing with XBMC to be honest, upgrading just leads to problems, what i have now works fine
<awilkins> Yeah, I need to pull my thumb out and set up the tuner multiplexing at some point
<awilkins> Our main annoyance with it now is that it interrupts LiveTV to record things a lot
<awilkins> Shouldn't be an issue, we have three tuners
<oimon> photoshop on android looks a bit like unity ;) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-app-reviews/8927883/Adobe-Photoshop-Touch-for-Android-app-review.html
<oimon> was there a recent news story about dyndns shutting down the free accounts?
 * brobostigon has a go at http://canyoucrackit.co.uk/
<DJones> oimon: I've still got a free account with them
<dogmatic69> brobostigon: saw a post about it the other day, want some clues :P
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: maybe later, yes.
<oimon> DJones: hmm my account semes to have been deleted. i thought i was using it with opendns to trak my dynamic IP, hope that it still working
<oimon> stage 1 is hard, but the video from that university of greenwich guy was useful
<DJones> oimon: I think it depends how often you log in/update the details, if something doesn't get updated at least once a month, then it gets deleted
<oimon> every time my machine is switched on
<oimon> although ubuntu and cron are not good buddies anymore
<bigcalm> joker.com and other name registers / DNS offer the abillity to set up dyn records on your own domain names. This is free on joker.com, I <3 joker.com :)
<oimon> just realised that cron has stopped working again on my lucid box
<gord> so this is weird, i have had a python interactive interpretor open for most of my morning, i haven't been using it i just opened it up to do some quick calculations then never shut it down, i just went to close it a few minutes ago and found this in it http://paste.ubuntu.com/761647/ - i didn't type that... nor does it produce that output if you type it into the interpretor
<gord> so far my only idea is ghosts.
<oimon> #blamepopey
<Laney> looks like a paste
<Laney> middle click?
<gord> maybe, but i don't work with java, i have no reason to have that in my paste buffer
<Laney> that's why i said middle click
<Laney> i.e. x clipboard i.e. got there by being highlighted
<Laney> the #1 source of my embarrassing irc mispastes
<gord> even then, python should of said something about it
<gord> i still think ghosts
<oimon> people who highlight what they are reading are like those whose finger moves under the words and move their lips as they read
<gord> more likely its people without properly calibrated monitors who are having trouble focusing on small amounts of text in a large interface
 * awilkins hates doing Java UI code
<awilkins> SWT / JFace is bad enough, but Swing? Blech.
<awilkins> Why can't they just totally steal the .NET Windows Forms layout engine which works really well.
<oimon> think my work pc wants a reboot :(
<oimon> 42 days isn't long enough uptime .
<MooDoo> yay netsplit
<directhex> only a little one
<directhex> and ali1234 got split. i'd call it a success!
<directhex> Mez, ping
<Mez> directhex: pong.
<Mez> directhex: also: please leave a message with a ping XD
<directhex> Mez, you're the unrar maintainer. how'd you like to add another exciting decompressor to your repertoire, hot off the presses?
<Mez> directhex: er... could do... depends what it is and whether it's written well.
<Mez> Aren't you a packager though?
<directhex> yeah, but it's outside my area of expertise
<Mez> What's your area of expertise?
<directhex> well, mono, really
<Azelphur> Is there a nice open source alternative to dropbox yet that has right click > copy public link for file sharing?
<Azelphur> I use dropbox all the time for that \o/
<oimon> Azelphur: you mean install on your own server?
<Azelphur> nah, I'm happy with cloud storage
<oimon> ubuntu one has that feature
<Azelphur> oO, that's new, it didn't have that before
<Azelphur> guess I'll bounce to Ubuntu one then
<oimon> since years ago
<DJones> AlanBell: Was it you that had/was looking at the Dell Streak?
<Twinkletoes> I've followed a few docs but can't seem to configure nat'ing using ufw.  Is ufw worth it for simple firewall rules, or was it an experiment which flopped?
<oimon> Azelphur: nautilus integration has ubuntu one menu -> share /sync/ publish / copy web link
<awilkins> Dammit, the crashies are back. I thought it had all settled down, stead as a rock all day. It's like there's a "Capacitor of Evil" that slowly charges up on my motherboard and eventually discharges just as I want to keep the thing I'm working on
<awilkins> Have dropped my GPU speed to lowest.
<Azelphur> oimon: I signed into Ubuntu one and it seems to be using obsolete personal details for me o.O
<Azelphur> and an obsolete email address
<oimon> try the ubuntu one irc channel..nice peeps in ther
<Azelphur> righto
 * oimon is reading RHEL 6.2 release notes
<Azelphur> oimon: can I have a public folder? or do I have to publish the file every time I upload :P
<oimon> hmm
<oimon> dunno dude
<Azelphur> hehe
<oimon> i guess just the files?
<AlanBell> DJones: had one, somehow managed to lose the thing
<DJones> AlanBell: ok, noticed this earlier http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/120511-dell-streak-253760.html?hpg1=bn
<oimon> streak has toilet connotations..bad name for a product
<oimon> to be fair, every android product needs a yearly rev or it's out of date
<livingdaylight> Hi, I'm experiencing issues with mouse cutting out after some time. The panels don't respond and I can't click on anything. I reboot, after which it is fine for a while but then repeats
<DJones> oimon: I'd agree with that veview comment, a new version of android comes out every few months, different manufacturers upgrade or don'tr upgrade at random times so there's no consistency, thats certainly one area where apple has an advantage, although they're supporting a less varied hardware range so makes it easier for them
<bigcalm> livingdaylight: are you able to use a different mouse? Or unplug and replug the mouse?
<livingdaylight> bigcalm, tried three mice, changed batteries, used wired mouse... all the same result
<DJones> livingdaylight: Also, is it a laptop or desktop?
<ndp> #lonres
<livingdaylight> DJones, desktop
<oimon> DJones: apple also have the worlds media providing free marketing to tell all their loyal worshippers about the new product
<Darael> livingdaylight: I've occasionally experienced something that looks like that, where the screensaver's kicked in (and been dismissed) but the password-input overlay doesn't crop up.  Entering the user password and pressing enter sorts it, though.
<bigcalm> livingdaylight: is the system otherwise responsive? Can you drop to the console?
<livingdaylight> bigcalm, its responsive now. Just now sure how long it will last
<Darael> If the screensaver (or screen-blanker, these days) hasn't activated, then clearly that's not it, but I thought it worth mentioning.
<DJones> livingdaylight: ok, I've had a similar issue with my laptop, can't click anything etc using an external mouse.  I've found that just clicking usingthe laptops mousepad buttons resets the external mouse (I know it doesn't help in your situation)
<livingdaylight> DJones, ok
<DJones> livingdaylight: Because mines solvable easily with that, I've never looked for any other solutions
<dogmatic69> ive got .ssh/config setup with 2 id files, ssh is just skipping the first one and using the second. any ideas?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: the server might not support the key type (ecdsa, rsa)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: can you paste the relevant parts of the config?
<dogmatic69> no, its git and rsa
<MartijnVdS> "git" isn't a key type
<dogmatic69> sorry, github
<dogmatic69> the server
<MartijnVdS> OK and how did you config it?
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/
<dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/810132499
 * dogmatic69 fails at using the pc today
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can't have two blocks for one host
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it'll only use the first
<dogmatic69> it was working at one point just now
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you can make several aliases
<dogmatic69> no, ssh -vT is showing it
<MartijnVdS> http://bin.cakephp.org/pastes/edit/71067
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: like that
<dogmatic69> wrong link :D
<MartijnVdS> also, shouldn't the identityfile be the non-.pub variety ?
<dogmatic69> ah, ok one issue down
<dogmatic69> is it safe to paste ssh -vT on the net?
<MartijnVdS> what is -T?
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> it should be
<dogmatic69> Disable pseudo-tty allocation.
<MooDoo> Disable pseudo-tty allocation.
<dogmatic69> just been following the tutorial on git
<MooDoo> oh pah!
<MooDoo> to slow
<MartijnVdS> found it in the manualk
<dogmatic69> :)
 * dogmatic69 is getting fast with man *
<MooDoo> +1
<dogmatic69> ok, here is the -v http://bin.cakephp.org/view/502048939
<dogmatic69> line 41, offers it
<dogmatic69> and nothing :/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: did you copy the pubkey to the other end?
<dogmatic69> bah
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: i did, but then deleted the key and made a new one
<MartijnVdS> If I was sshing to my own server, I'd check the server log for permission errors
<dogmatic69> thanks, now it works :)
<dogmatic69> ssh is smart
<dogmatic69> did not think it would skip the wrong keys and use the correct one :)
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i'm trying to install a server for svn, but to run svn 1.5 for a weird situation with an external developers.
<NET||abuse> how can i check what versions of a package can be installed, list out candidates?
<Darael> apt-cache policy $packagename, IIRC.
<MartijnVdS> correct
<NET||abuse> Darael: ok, so that shows me details of the subversion oneiric/main amd64  1.6.12 package
<NET||abuse> what i'm in need of is 1.5
<NET||abuse> how can i get such an old version?
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: run an older version of Ubuntu and tell your devs to start planning an upgrade ;)
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: get the package from an older version of Ubuntu and hope the dependencies still work
<NET||abuse> they're doing an upgrade but not till February, i need them to work for the next 2 months on this repo though
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: packages.ubuntu.com might be of use
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: to find an older .deb
<MartijnVdS> Where I work we do things the other way around -- devs bug ops to install newer versions ;)
<MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: seems like hardy has 1.5.1
<NET||abuse> yeh, lucid was on 1.6.6
<NET||abuse> a few deps to solve here.
<gord> every time i see the uk-podcast logo thing, i think i'm looking at the sega dreamcast logo
<AlanBell> every time I look at a sega dreamcast . . . err actually don't think I have seen one
<directhex> the dreamcast was awesome
<directhex> i've got debian on a cdr somewhere
<directhex> debian potato, for superh4 processor
<gord> AlanBell, logo looked like this http://images.wikia.com/mightandmagic/en/images/5/50/Dreamcast_logo.jpg - comes up every time you turn it on so its fairly engrained in my brain
<tonytiger> I hope you're all ready to listen in a couple of hours!
<monsterwizard> what does one do if one feel too connected to the internet
<funkyHat> monsterwizard: go for a walk and only take one of your smartphones with you
<funkyHat> ;)
<MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: Book a trip to a pacific island, don't bring any electronic equipment
<monsterwizard> If I am unconnect
<monsterwizard> I am turned off
<MartijnVdS> Caribbean island works in a pinch
<monsterwizard> thereby not living
<MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: /nick SkyNet?
<monsterwizard> ?
<MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: "Skynet is the main antagonist in the Terminator franchiseâan artificially intelligent system which became self-aware and revolted against its creators."
<monsterwizard> :o
<monsterwizard> does anyone wish Theresa May was 20 years younger?
<Darael> /Someone/ probably does.
<awilkins> So, is there a way to downgrade to the 275.36 version of the nvidia driver on Oneric - I'm guessing it'll have to be manual, since the earliest packaged version is 280.13
<awilkins> Gah, ask a question about nvidia drivers, and it crashes. I'm convinced it's actually a voodoo (graphics) curse taken out by Microsoft now.
 * awilkins is chatting via a web client on his Windows laptop
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: aww :)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: what's the problem?
<MartijnVdS> because I think it's a hardware thing
<awilkins> If it's hardware why does mprime run fine for an hour, Memtest86 work fine...
<awilkins> MartijnVdS: Found some messages in kernel log that lead me to the nvnews forum
<awilkins> But otherwise I would agree with you
<MartijnVdS> does mprime tax the gpu?
<awilkins> No
<awilkins> MartijnVdS: If it keeps up I'll switch back to the older card
<MartijnVdS> Because the things you describe seem to indicate brokenness in GPU country
<awilkins> Windows doesn't have the same problems though
<awilkins> Which is frustrating
<awilkins> Anecdotally other people have had problems since the 280 driver update... I've only had problems since upgrading to Oneiric
<awilkins> Which has 280 as it's minimum packaged driver. Never had trouble with Natty
<awilkins> The other thing I could try is going back to Natty, I suppose. Or installing the 275.36 driver manually
<awilkins> I've left it rendering Skyrim for hours with no issues at all in Windows. But Unity makes it hard-crash the machine? Pretty odd for hardware issues
<AlanBell> christel: thought about trains for friday?
<ali1234> seems the nvidia current drivers are buggy even on windows
<christel> AlanBell: no! have you? i figure you'd know the best one to catch! ;)
<danfish> i ama confused. Is the meal Friday? (I know I can't go).
<AlanBell> christel: 16:28 looks to be the one to go for (16:58 is possible, but a bit of a struggle)
<AlanBell> danfish: it is
<AlanBell> day after the pub night
<danfish> ah - for some reason thought it was Weds
<danfish> AlanBell: ah - a swinging night in Surbiton!
<AlanBell> orly!
<AlanBell> thought it was a sweet and innocent pub night
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: o/
<funkyHat> Anyone know if Richmond Park gets locked at night?
 * funkyHat is considering cycling there
<danfish> funkyHat: yep - shuts at dusk
<funkyHat> feh
<Myrtti> funkyHat: FEEEENNNNTTTOOOOONNNNN
<funkyHat> Myrtti: â¢D
<funkyHat> Oh well. The train will cost me Â£1.40 each way and will only take slightly longer
<MartijnVdS> Â£1.40, or about 0.64kg
<funkyHat> Google maps public transport thing is not very good for trains
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<funkyHat> Ã´/
<funkyHat> Oh wait I was looking at the adult fares, it will actually only cost me Â£0.95 each way
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr_a8KszaPI ?
<funkyHat> MartijnVdS: It doesn't seem to be playing â¢(
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: "Le Flying Saucer Hat" by Chairlift
<MartijnVdS> funkyHat: it's probably on Spotify :)
<funkyHat> Ah... if only I had enough space to install things on this netbook
<christel> AlanBell: *nod*
<christel> AlanBell: sounds like the earlier one may be a plan since we have to be Punctual!
<AlanBell> yeah, and it is rush hour
<AlanBell> and we might get time for a drink
<Azelphur> trying to repair grub after installing android x86. got a LiveUSB up and running and I'm typing sudo grub-install /dev/sda, it's saying "/usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for /boot/grub (is /dev mounted?)"
<MartijnVdS> hm.. this "sugru" stuff looks really useful. Anyone have experience with it?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: looking at flickr pics of Sugru.. seems like you've used it ;)
<Myrtti> yup
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: do you like it? why? or not? why? :)
<Myrtti> yeah it's nice, the only downside is that it goes bad quite quick
<Myrtti> bad = out of date and unusable
<MartijnVdS> yeah 6 months I saw on the website?
<Myrtti> yeah
<MartijnVdS> but also after use?
<MartijnVdS> or only before?
<Myrtti> only before
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> I think I'll buy some then... I have some things that need repairing
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: thanks for the info :)
<jacobw> moo
<jacobw> happy hour
<jacobw> does one simply turn up?
<bigcalm> You could register yourself as attending
<bigcalm> Which will make it more likely that others will join
<ali1234> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1412/detail/
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> how do i enable SSL properly on apache2?
<jacobw> where 'properly' means?
<ali1234> "so that it actually works"
<ali1234> i enabled the module and added "Listen 443 https" to ports.conf
<ali1234> but it is serving regular http on 443
<MartijnVdS> now you need a cert
<MartijnVdS> SSLEngine On in your vhost
<jacobw> configure a virtual host for your https access
<MartijnVdS> also, SSLCertificateFile & Friends
<ali1234> i'm not using vhosts
<jacobw> why not?
<ali1234> because it's a single purpose server
<ali1234> i'm not even sure where it is serving the files from
<jacobw> the directory layout of the ubuntu packaged apache2 is intended for vhosts
<ali1234> i know
<jacobw> it makes sense to ues vhosts if only to keep all your directives in the same place
<ali1234> hmmmm
<ali1234> is it even possivle to use have a certificate for a website that has no domain name?
<jacobw> documentation for apache 1.3 will show you how to do configure ssl without virtual hosting, although it should only be a matter of where you put your directives
<jacobw> a certificate must contain a DN, afaik it doesn't have to be fully qualified
<AlanBell> ali1234: it is possible to have a non-matching certificate :)
<ali1234> yeah that doesn't really help
<ali1234> i'm trying to set up a "demo" of a phishing site
<AlanBell> well it does mean that the traffic can be encrypted
<ali1234> encryption doesn't matter, the point is to make it look "more legit"
<AlanBell> full size iframe probably
<Myrtti> wheee
<Myrtti> apparently my vocabulary has expanded again during the last year
<Myrtti> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257347
<daubers> o/
<AlanBell> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257599
<jacobw> http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257638
<Myrtti> I'm happy with my result :-P
<Myrtti> it was less than 20K a year ago or so
<jacobw> I'm doubting some of those words are real :p
 * jacobw looks up 'maladroit'
<AlanBell> so am I, about average for age 32 and I am 36, so I am younger than I look!
<Laney> too much clicking
<jacobw> er, wrong window?
<AlanBell> or look younger than I am vocabulisically
<ali1234> does everyone get the same words?
<jacobw> ah
<jacobw> i like the word 'maladroit' now i know what it means
<AlanBell> linguistically clumsy I think
<jacobw> inept
<jacobw> 'lacking adroitness'
<daubers> woot! http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1257701
<jacobw> which means eptitude
<jacobw> aptitude even
<AlanBell> gosh, daubers knows a lot of cromulent words
 * daubers may have been in a lot of uni pub quizes
<jacobw> i'm slightly better than average for my age
<ali1234> it's only to be expected if you sit and read webpages and irc all day
<jacobw> (of 20)
<jacobw> haha, especially ubuntu-uk with its pedants
<AlanBell> wonder what dutchie would score
<daubers> dutchie would probably complain about the spelling and grammar in the test
<DJones> How many pages are there to this test?
<DJones> Is "oneiromancy" a lover of Ubuntu 11.10? :)
<ali1234> i would guess it's someone who tells your future based on your dreams
<ali1234> but only because i looked up what "oneiric" means when it was released
<DJones> :)
<Darael> ali1234: Clearly it's either that or someone who predicts the future based on the behaviour of Ubuntu 11.10.
<Darael> DJones: A lover of 11.10 would clearly be an oneirophile, whereas someone who is obsessed with (or has compulsions related to) it would be an oneiromaniac.
<DJones> Darael: Too much info :)
<Darael> Just a little knowledge of how one combines Greek-derived forms... :P
<Darael> Oh, and I might as well add /more/ unwanted info:  Someone who does seemingly-magical things with 11.10 would be practising oneirurgy.
<DJones> So that would be the word to describe the Unity developers :)
<ali1234> why can't i install any firefox extensions?
<ali1234> because i have to hack the install.rdf :(
<dutchie> AlanBell/daubers: http://testyourvocab.com/?r=1258182
<AlanBell> jolly good
<jacobw> odd question
<jacobw> i want to record a http session and replay it at different hosts
<mgdm> not odd at all
<mgdm> I'm not sure if Selenium is too high-level for what you want?
 * jacobw looks
<gord> spent 15-20 minutes making this and its terrible. i hate mobile phone games :( http://i.imgur.com/SkPLQ.jpg
<jacobw> http://code.google.com/p/wireplay/
<jacobw> awesome, this is exactly what i want
<dwatkins> heh, Wireplay was the name of BT's modem-based gaming network many years ago
<daftykins> gord: looks cosy ;)
<gord> yes its very small :( if i had made it any bigger it would of taken another half an hour
<daftykins> though afaik the pocket edition is not the current online one?
<daftykins> it's only that no danger one?
<gord> the pocket edition is basically minecraft from two years ago
<gord> well no, its minecraft from two years ago with size limitations
<gord> and horrible controls
<daftykins> XD
<gord> everyone keeps saying that the ipad/iphone is going to destroy traditional gaming, you just have to take one look at something like this to realise, no, no its not =\
<daftykins> i dunno, the hardware is scaling up very quickly
<daftykins> and it does hugely promote accessibility
<gord> it doesn't matter, the interface is terrible
<daftykins> well yeah
<daftykins> but they'll get around that
<gord> the way you get around it is to be like the other people in the market today, which is not how you take over a market
<gord> its only how you become a player
<daftykins> ok
<daftykins> anyone waiting for the new xbox360 dashboard? :)
<daftykins> pesky delays
<gord> i hear that finally brings iplayer support :) i don't have an xbox but it seemed silly that its the only electronic device around that doesn't have iplayer support ;)
<gord> pretty sure it comes on toasters now
<daftykins> no only in the new year
<daftykins> not just yet
<directhex> daftykins: just booted the 360. no update
<daftykins> nope
<daftykins> big delay
<daftykins> yeah i saw you pop up ;D
<daftykins> http://twitter.com/majornelson
<daftykins> update "this afternoon" pacific time
<daftykins> so they might have another 2hrs in the office
<directhex> gord, i believe the 360's iplayer support was written years ago, but the beeb refused to let MS make it only available to Gold (paid) subscribers
<daftykins> ah yesh i'd heard that rumour
<daftykins> brb kernel update
<gord> good on bbc, boo on microsoft
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<monsterwizard> is  anyone here good at AI?
<directhex> i did a course on it at uni. all i remember is something about lobsters.
<daftykins> Iraq lobster!
<daftykins> "Death to America... and buttersauce!"
<daftykins> </Family Guy>
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-07
<funkyHat> monsterwizard: I'm good at pretending I'm clever, if that's what you mean
<monsterwizard> hmmm
<daftykins> xbox live update is back on \o/
<monsterwizard> anyone from the UK doing a degree here?
<funkyHat> monsterwizard: I am â¢)
<monsterwizard> is 60% a 2.1 ?
<funkyHat> It depends on the university, but that sounds like it's probably about right
<monsterwizard> awesome
<monsterwizard> why is it so hard to find the bloody information on this
<funkyHat> monsterwizard: ask your course leaders? â¢)
<monsterwizard> fuck em
<monsterwizard> oops
<monsterwizard> sorry
<dutchie> monsterwizard: 60% is the lower boundary for a 2:1 for me
<monsterwizard> ok
<monsterwizard> dutchie if you get low 2.1s thoughout
<monsterwizard> can you still get a 2.1 overall ?
<monsterwizard> generally
<dutchie> this is all going to depend very much on your course
<dutchie> but i'd say yes
<dutchie> if you consistently get a 2:1, and end up with something other than 2:1 i'd be surprised
<daftykins> just do epically every now and then to surprise everyone
<daftykins> then you'd deffo hold onto a 2:1
<DGJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<christel> good morning
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning all
<danfish> ahoy hoy!
<czajkowski> hows folks?
<Twinkletoes> Yo
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski how are you?
<Twinkletoes> I'm not having much success with IP forwarding for this gateway machine.  "/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward" contains 1, but from a test machine, I can only ping as far as the second (furthest) NIC.  Anything after that doesn't work
<czajkowski> MooDoo: not too mad, no sign of Davmor2 these days
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i've noticed that
<MooDoo> czajkowski: not seen him on facebook either
<czajkowski> odd
<MooDoo> czajkowski: retribution will be had :D
<czajkowski> indeed
<oimon> is there a way i can find out which host machine my VM is running on?
<Twinkletoes> oimon: From within the VM itself?
<oimon> Twinkletoes: yeah
<Twinkletoes> oimon: What's your virtualization platform?
<oimon> vmware esxi
<Twinkletoes> oimon: I don't think you can... the whole idea behind virtualization is the OS has no idea of the underlying platform
<oimon> i had a badly named vm and couldn't find which host it was running on. found it now, but rather annoying
<shauno> cheap answer, but http://serverfault.com/questions/151176/which-esxi-server-is-a-vm-on
<oimon> also vmware tools was not installed so i couldn't search by IP address
<oimon> which would have been the easy way - list machine by IP in vsphere
<Twinkletoes> oimon: Yeah
<Twinkletoes> Right, my turn... I can't get ip forwarding to work properly.  I'm setting up a gateway machine (some network details here: http://pastebin.com/dzsyk29Z) but using a client machine on the 10.97.0.0 network, I can only ping the "furthest" nic on the gateway.  For anything beyond that (going onto the 192.168.2.0 network) I get no response.  Any ideas?
<oimon> you want to do NAT or not?
<Twinkletoes> oimon: Yes
<Twinkletoes> oimon: Does it require iptables to complete?
<oimon> the best way for networking issues is a draw a picture then share it.
<oimon> iptables will do the NAT
<shauno> fairly sure you still need iptables for the MASQ bits
<oimon> http://www.revsys.com/writings/quicktips/nat.html
<oimon> fortunately it's not too hard :)
<shauno> otherwise you should be able to ping, but won't receive the replies
<Twinkletoes> oimon: I was following ufw rules yesterday but it still diodn't work... I try some more, thanks for the tips
<Twinkletoes> shauno: That's what I'm getting
<oimon> never tried ufw because iptables is what i've always used, and it's so powerful (and a bit brutal)
<gord> hrm, there has been a system update for my nintendo 3ds that allows me to now record 3d video. morning ruined.
<Twinkletoes> Thanks oimon / shauno, I followed the same process again (from scratch) with ufw and it now works, I obviously did a typo somewhere, but it's good to know that I need masquerading to make nat work
<oimon> irc ftw :)
<BigRedS> what's the modern and fashionable version of dpkg --get-selections etc?
<popey> ah, i know this
 * BigRedS waits, expectantly
 * popey tries to find his notes
<BigRedS> :)
<BigRedS> aha
<popey> !clone
<lubotu3> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type Â« aptitude  --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' > ~/my-packages Â», move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type Â« sudo xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < my-packages ; sudo aptitude install Â» - See also !automate
<popey> there you go âº
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2009/07/23/s02e09-the-dimensions-of-time/  found it as a comment there
<NET||abuse> hmm, back to the grind stone, anyone know of a way i could easily get 11.10 server to run svn 1.5 instead of 1.6?
<BigRedS> Oooh, ta!
<shauno> heh, I couldn't remember the new magic.  I tried googling, and found a popey.com pointing to --get-selections
<BigRedS> haha
<Laney> i discovered dpkg-repack yesterday
<Laney> pretty neato wheatos
 * oimon looks forward to more u1 integration with packages and cloning
<oimon> also wish gpodder had u1 integration too
<oimon> who is a good online photo printing company that produces nice prints?
<oimon> and good value?
<BigRedS> Ah, that doesn't look like it preserves versions
<BigRedS> which would be moot if this box was upgraded, but it's not been for some time :(
<Laney> you can't guarantee that all of the versions you want will still be available on mirrors
<BigRedS> no, but I'd like to see if they are
<bigcalm> oimon: photobox has worked for me in the past
<oimon> anyone notice that the price of CDs has risen a lot lately? used to be 7-8 quid, now 12-13 quid
<gord> bigcalm, out of interest, do they do posters sizes?
<oimon> i'm looking at truprint for posters etc
<oimon> but thats what i grw up with - there must be cheaper ones out there
<gord> i want some nice framed movie posters, real classy like, but you just can't get them online from somewhere that has any quality. generally they just take an image they found on google, with jpeg artefacts, then print that poorly
<bigcalm> gord: no idea :)
<bigcalm> http://amultiverse.com/2011/12/06/what-it-looks-like/ hehe
<czajkowski> Instagram support 14 million users on Ubuntu Sever on EC2 http://instagram-engineering.tumblr.com/post/13649370142/what-powers-instagram-hundreds-of-instances-dozens-of
<oimon> gord, maybe visit a poster fair or freshers week thing
 * AlanBell is not entirely sure that movie posters count as classy
<gord> depends on the poster, some are frankly, works of art
<gord> whatever the poster is for that new adam sandler movie where he plays his own sister? maybe not
<morpheous> #gnucash
<oimon> attack of 50ft woman poster is a classic
<bigcalm> Original not the remake one hopes
<oimon> also, http://uk.movieposter.com/poster/A70-6911/Star_Wars.html
<oimon> i have a jigsaw of this one: http://uk.movieposter.com/poster/A70-6912/Star_Wars.html
<shauno> It's just occured to me that my fossy bug reports are more useful / detailed than internal ones :/
<oimon> which gstreamer plugins allow aac/mp3 playback?
<shauno> aac's codec used to be called faad.  I may be anywhere up to 7 years out of date with that, however
<oimon> it's a minefield, trying to find this stuff out
 * daubers ponders a book on Zigbee's
<daubers> shauno: It was a bit of a fad
<shauno> ;)  I still have libfaad2 in lucid
<oimon> the machine in questions is RHEL comaptible
<danfish> hah - was following a German forum post on getting reverse proxying of etherpad lite and apache going
<danfish> clicked on the translate button in chrome
<danfish> which promptly tried to germanise the example config file - swapping words around etc
<daubers> "germanise"?
<daubers> make it sound like something banned by the UN
<danfish> daubers: heh - quite
<shauno> trying to make apache's config grammatically correct probably should be banned
<danfish> needless to say 'apache2 reload' didn't work too well
<danfish> German is a very good language to swear in
<Myrtti> nothing beats Finnish with the rolling R's
<danfish> never heard finnish swearing
<jussi> oooh, I could so post a video here...
<oimon> gstreamer yglu plugin seems to be mp3
<oimon> ugly
<oimon> is there a country in the world where traffic lights are upside down ? green at top
<gord> to confuse dogs?
<oimon> just saw it on an otherwise accurate animation and wondered if it was true somewhere
<gord> i think dogs driving is dangerous enough, there is really no need to do that just to confuse them
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Hill#Green_over_red
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_variations_in_traffic_light_signalling_and_operation
<oimon> i found that tipperary one..seems to be rather unique then
<oimon> almost bought myself an xbox by mistake when buying a CD...had been in my basket since a few days ago...woops
<shauno> a likely excuse
<oimon> i was pricing it up for my sister :-\
<Myrtti> oo I wonder what apps are on sale on Android Market today
<Myrtti> aw, not updated yet
<oimon> is swiftkey better than swype?
<oimon> i need to get android on my touchpad :(
<DGJones> oimon, Not sure if its better, perhaps just different, I've not tried it though, I like swype
<oimon> i have trouble upgrading swype DJones. it seems i lose my settings each time
<DGJones> I just uninstall and rerun the swype installer, normally the settings stay the same, but the last update at the weekend did lose some settings
<oimon> and then swype is crap for the next few weeks -
<DGJones> There's not that many settings to fix, I think the only one I need to put right is the click sound that always seems to get enabled
<oimon> user dict gets deleted
<DGJones> I've never noticed that
<oimon> and speed/accuracy get reset
<oimon> and languages get added
<directhex> swype installation is dreadful
<directhex> but you're not their customer
<directhex> samsung etc are swype customers, you're just a beta tester
<Myrtti> well atleast there's Finnish now \o/ on the beta
 * AlanBell won't make it to the happy hour tomorrow
<oimon> directhex: it is very beta IME
<directhex> oimon, swype is well past beta - except for the pre-alpha nonsense to get it installed & licensed
<directhex> which you don't get on devices which ship with swype out of the box
<danfish> AlanBell: /o\
<AlanBell> yeah, customer wants me in basingstoke
<AlanBell> did you settle on a pub?
<danfish> AlanBell: yeah - the best pubs area fair walk from the station, so sticking with the Victoria - it a solid place
<danfish> only 500m from station
<AlanBell> ok
<danfish> not expecting a big turnout, but a night out's a night out :)
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/12/07/s04e21-dance-of-death/
<popey> âº
<chrisjrob> popey should do an alternative version for those that listen live
<chrisjrob> ;)
<czajkowski> danfish: might pop along
<danfish> czajkowski: yeah!
<czajkowski> âº
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E21  Dance of Death - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/12/07/s04e21-dance-of-death/
 * oimon spins up gpodder
<Laney> COLD
<oimon> windy
<Laney> at least that is contained to the outside
 * Laney is playing along with the quiz
<popey> âº
<Laney> 1/2
<oimon> windy inside here too :(
 * Laney shelters underneath oimon 
<gordonjcp> bit earlier on it was getting so dark that the streetlights came on
<daz-1> Damn it's bloody cold...
 * Laney lights a bin on fire
<daz-1> <<<puts the heating on lol
<daz-1> Boo!
<daz-1> ok why so quiet??? Hmmm i wonder.
<Laney> we all froze
<dogmatic69> not to bad in the midlands
<dogmatic69> was not even frosty this morning
<daz-1> it was frosty where i am
<daz-1> and im in the midlans
<daz-1> midlands
<dogmatic69> where abouts?
<daz-1> brum
<daz-1> you
<dogmatic69> redditch home, leamington spa work
<daz-1> ur over the road from me
<daz-1> well about 6 or 7 mile
<dogmatic69> was in solihull, just moved in with the gf
<daz-1> solihull at the back of me
<daz-1> well its nice 2 meet u dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> same o/
<dogmatic69> did not think there was anyone in here near by
<daz-1> what ubuntu you using 11.10
<daz-1> <<<<<11.04 me
<daz-1> if ur using ubuntu that is
<daz-1> lol
<daz-1> well looks like im the closest to you dog
<daz-1> lol
<dogmatic69> 10.10
<daz-1> i luv 10.10 awsome distro
<daz-1> ive just installed 11.04 and installed massive loads of stuff its took me hours to do
<daz-1> all i got 2 do now is some themes
<hamitron> why 11.04?
<dogmatic69> not sure if im sold on the new UI in 11
<daz-1> well im not a lover of unity so im on 11.04 clasic gnome luv it
<dogmatic69> gnome3 looks nice
<daz-1> 2 be quite honest i hate unity
 * hamitron hasn't looked yet
<daz-1> cant get gnome 3 to work with my ati driver
<dogmatic69> i used it in the netbook remix a while back, was not impressed.
<daz-1> tried everything
<daz-1> i even updated the driver to 11.11 still no good
<daz-1> i do like gnome 3 tho
<daz-1> its good
<daz-1> shame i cant get it 2 work tho
<hamitron> minor issue
<monsterwizard> nevr gonna give you up
<hamitron> ;)
<monsterwizard> never onna let you down
<daz-1> lol
<daz-1> rick astley
<daz-1> lol
<daz-1> never gonna run around :)
<daz-1> desert u
<daz-1> lol
<daz-1> god i must be bored
<daz-1> :(
 * oimon is learning how to play oblivion
<daz-1> think i'll download a film?
 * dogmatic69 just installed w3m :D
<daz-1> hey dogmatic69...do you have a name i can call you?
<daz-1> <<<<DAZ
<dogmatic69> dogmatic69 :)
<daz-1> cool
<daz-1> ?
<daz-1> installing games now...just picking them by random
<daz-1> not sure about wots good and wots not
<oimon> what sort of games u like?
<oimon> there's good FPS shooters out there
<daz-1> i realy dont mind any game..i will try any
<oimon> sort by the review scores :)
<daz-1> im getting the best and highest review one's
<BigRedS> supertuxkart!
<daz-1> got that
<Azelphur> daz-1: HEDGE WARS. DO IT.
<Azelphur> that is all.
<daz-1> open arean just done
<daz-1> arena
<Azelphur> If you've ever played Worms, hedgewars is like worms but better
<daz-1> i'll look at hedgewars now
<Azelphur> FPS games, nexuiz is very popular, battle for wesnoth is also powerful
<Azelphur> also popular*
<hamitron> minecraft?
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> are you after specifically open source/free (beer) games or do you does it only matter if it has native Linux compatibility?
<Azelphur> is stuff that works flawlessly in wine an option?
<daz-1> cant find hedgewars
<daz-1> im installing  battle for wesnoth
<oimon> hedgewars is there, also try tumiki fighters
<hamitron> Azelphur, what weapons does hedgewars have?
<daz-1> yes done hedgewars
<Azelphur> hamitron: everything from portal guns to pianos.
<hamitron> minigun and ninjarope?
<oimon> urban terror is good too - might not be in software center? has great multiplayer online play
<Azelphur> hamitron: yep
<hamitron> :D
<daz-1> ok need 2 get a coffee while these are installing
<oimon> daz-1: if you have ATI problems, you could try the 11.10 live usb and see if it fixes the problem
<oimon> try using the open source driver first,
<oimon> can i get svn to send a mail upon a succesful commit?
<bigcalm> svn ci && mail blah?
<oimon> aka the "i'll do it , but others won't adhere to it" way
<bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7913/how-do-i-make-subversion-svn-send-email-on-checkins
<oimon> thanks ,i'll check it out
<oimon> quiet in here today
<oimon> getting lots of frivolous issues coming in right now, it must be winding down to christmas
<daz-1> cant wait till santa comes :)
<daz-1> lol
<oimon> i have some news for you
<oimon> santa's dead
<daz-1> no hes not
<daz-1> lol
<daz-1> hes gonna bring me a new woman for xmas
<daz-1> :)
<danfish> hmm. I swear I installed 32bit on this laptop last week
<bigcalm> What's wrong with 64bit?
<hamitron> pain compiling things for 2 different architectures?
<bigcalm> I wouldn't have thought that was a problem unless you're a dev - people are there to make Ubuntu just work :)
<hamitron> tbh, I personally see no point in running 64 bit on a machine where 32 bit "will do"
<bigcalm> 32bit won't be around forever
<bigcalm> Technically, neither will 64bit. But it'll out last many generations I think
 * hamitron 's eyes fill up with that been said
<hamitron> ;)
<AlanBell> I see no point running 32 bit on a machine where 64bit is available
<bigcalm> Ditto
<hamitron> doesn't 64 bit software use more memory?
<AlanBell> no, not really
<bigcalm> Still kicking myself that my Revo has 32bit 10.04.3 on it. Clean install of 64bit 12.04 next year :)
<hamitron> ah, I read it did
<bigcalm> Do you believe everything you read?
<hamitron> I am looking forward to 12.04, I'll be moving to 64 bit
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> erm, maybe too much :/
<bigcalm> Life is all about deception and lies - that's why we have alcohol :)
<hamitron> but I've decided to stick with i586 optimised software for all machines with 2Gb or less memory here.... then jump everything upto x64 for the newer stuff
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> beer <3
<oimon> 64 bit isn't that special though
<oimon> it's easier to use what you have in the rest of the enterprise
<hamitron> aye
<hamitron> also nice to "drop" old stuff less often
<hamitron> I was finding ubuntu upgrades were forcing me to have different machines on different versions
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> it's a pain for me to support custom packages for multi arch, plus 64-bit and 32-bit access to matlab etc
<hamitron> now I just have old on slackware, and will have new on ubuntu 12.04
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> assuming I like 12.04
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> not tried Unity yet, so :)
<oimon> phone charge fail. plugged in 5 hrs ago while at 14%.  now at 9%
<oimon> time to put uupc on the mp3 player instead of browsing on the way home :)
<jpds> Should of stopped the torrent client on it.
<oimon> i think it was a phone case malfunction
 * oimon wonders if omgubuntu is on the way out - has humphrey left? and joey is doing websites about tofu now
<AlanBell> what makes you think Ben left?
<oimon> AlanBell: a tweet joey sent about ohso & one man band
<AlanBell> so I see
 * czajkowski hugs jpds 
 * popey tickles CaMason 
<popey> oops
 * popey untickles CaMason 
 * popey tickles czajkowski 
 * czajkowski peers at a popey 
<czajkowski> ello ello
<popey> moo
<czajkowski> no moo cow :(
<popey>  _____
<popey> < MOO >
<popey>  -----
<popey>         \   ^__^
<popey>          \  (oo)\_______
<popey>             (__)\       )\/\
<popey>                 ||----w |
<popey>                 ||     ||
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> right now if you look at the moon and then look to the right of the moon you will see Jupiter
<popey> how far to the right of the moon?
<AlanBell> a hand +2 fingers
<czajkowski> hmm I think my mini 9 is on its deathbed :/
<czajkowski> battery is no longer chargin
<popey> czajkowski: you can get dell batteries on ebay fairly cheaply
<gord> kinda miss my mini10v, i have other hardware that has completely replaced it, but nothing keeped my knees warm quite like it did. also it had a green cover, that is cool
<gordonjcp> popey: far enough to the right of the moon to see Jupiter...
<gordonjcp> popey: it's basically the second-brightest thing in the sky
<czajkowski> popey: aye, hoping to buy the new lappy soon
<popey> hehe
<gordonjcp> anyone else ever seen an iridium flare?
<danfish> gordonjcp: no, but is that similar to some of the clothes my folks made me wear in the 70's?
<gordonjcp> no
<gordonjcp> basically the Iridium phone sats have a large, highly-polished aluminium parabolic dish facing towards Earth
<gordonjcp> at certain points they'll reflect the Sun like a huge shaving mirror, and for a few seconds they appear about mag -8
<gordonjcp> if you're lucky you can sometimes see the flare track across the ground as a bright flash like someone sweeping a spotlight across - I've managed to see that *once*
<danfish> I've a google calendar that tracks the ISS and it's appearances over SE England
<gordonjcp> cool
<gordonjcp> I just use gpredict since it does the other sats too
<gordonjcp> RIP AO-51
<gordonjcp> :-/
<danfish> RIP (soon) phobos-grunt
<gordonjcp> I'm not sure what mode ISS is running at the moment
<mgdm> gordonjcp: Oh, i thought the iridium flares were due to corner reflectors on the ... well, corners
<AlanBell> we totally failed to have the meeting on the 1st
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> I thought I had missed it
<bigcalm> Shall we have it on Friday evening?
<bigcalm> mgdm: your retweet of TeamAndIRC talking about porting CarrierIQ to CM7 and CM9 - Is this meant to be a joke that I have missed? That's not a user I follow so don't know if they are whack or not
<bigcalm> I ask due to: http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cyanogenmod-will-never-have-carrier-iq
 * bigcalm goes to take dinner out of the oven
<Univoid> Hi ppl quick question i copied my .config folder in my home dir to a new computer if i delete this .config folder will ubuntu recreate it
<MartijnVdS> yes, but you'll lose the configuration of most programs
<Univoid> that is fine
<Univoid> i copied the config folder from a laptop to a desktop stupidly and suddenly running very slow on desktop so wondering if i copied some settings i shouldnt
<popey> Univoid: I'd be careful of doing that
<popey> Univoid: especially if you use syncing programs like ubuntu one
<Univoid> i do not
<Azelphur> hmm, just tried to do a do-release-upgrade on 11.04 server to 11.10, it spewed out a malformatted unreadable traceback and died during the upgrade
<Azelphur> any suggestions on how I can resume the upgrade?
<directhex> awesme
<directhex> Azelphur, apt-get dist-upgrade? it's already got 11.10 repos set
<popey> how did you run do-release-upgrade?
<Azelphur> directhex: says something has a lock on /var/lib/dpkg/lock but I can't find out what
<Azelphur> popey: from the serial console on a vps host
<directhex> Azelphur, ps -ef | grep dpkg
<popey> no i mean the exact command
<directhex> Azelphur, if dpkg isn't running, delete the lock
<Azelphur> directhex: yea, we've got some dpkg running
<Azelphur> popey: sudo do-release-upgrade -d
<popey> BZZZT
<popey> wrong
<popey> -d = development
<Azelphur> derp.
<popey> you're probably on a journey to 12.04
<Azelphur> wooops.
<Azelphur> righto, reinstall then
<jpds> What could possibly go wrong?
<AlanBell> 12.04 ftw
 * MartijnVdS is on perfect, but it seems to be flaky in the multiarch department atm
<popey> see how I knew what the issue was there. experience of helping Azelphur in the past, that's what that is âº
 * AlanBell was going to move TheOpenSourcerer's blog to a server running 12.04
<Azelphur> popey: haha, I googled how to do it and followed instructions, bad instructions clearly :(
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gulp.
<popey> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Could your WP/10.04 prob have anything to do with Super cache?
<Azelphur> easy to reinstall though, literally just fresh installed and tried to update so can just fresh install again
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: unlikely, same setup on apache as lighttpd
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: 12.04 is an LTS, you like LTS :)
<popey> it isnt S yet tho
<AlanBell> details details
<Azelphur> popey: that page is for desktop though, this is server :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes - but 12.04 isn't even Alpha 2 yet. Prolly very broken right now.
<AlanBell> actually working fine right now
<popey> Azelphur: no. it isnt.
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's what I'm wondering - If it's Supercache and apache/
<TheOpenSourcerer> rather than WP and apache.
<popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OneiricUpgrades -> Network Upgrade for Ubuntu Servers
<popey> haha, and it's wrong
 * popey edits it
<Azelphur> ah, I went to the get-ubuntu/upgrade page rather than the upgrade notes,
<popey> well the first one is wrong
<popey> it has -d
<popey> what idiot did that?
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> popey: that's the page where I read -d!
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: It may be working __today__ but after the next apt-get update... Who knows ;-)
<Azelphur> popey: blame that idiot, not my fault!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Might be better off on 8.04 :-D
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: all part of the fun
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any way - time to go and prepare to watch some Frozen Planet
<popey> Azelphur: yeah, completely
 * Azelphur hides
<jacobw> Frozen Planet :o
<AlanBell> kitterman did it
<directhex> i think i'll get my mum frozen planet for xmas
<jacobw> don't get her Pluto, its not a planet anymore..
 * AlanBell fixes
<gord> blurays of frozen planet shipped to me today :) hope i get them tomorrow
<Azelphur> my cat died, I blame kitterman D:
<Azelphur> him and his -d.
<jacobw> Spontaneous cat death?
<popey> AlanBell: i am trying to fix it
<Azelphur> hehe, but yea np as I say it was just a fresh installation so I can just fresh install and do it right
<popey> 20:44:36  * popey edits it
<Azelphur> jacobw: indeed, spontaneous cat death caused by bad documentation
<popey> bah
<AlanBell> popey: oh, it didn't tell me you had a lock
 * daubers upgrades a laptop from 9.04 to 10.04
 * popey wanders off
<jacobw> Azelphur: i hate it when that happens :p
<MartijnVdS> 9.04? That's stone age!
<AlanBell> does the help wiki not do lock warning?
<jacobw> 9.04 :( i have to use 10.10, that's bad enough.
<Azelphur> in another point, I have a netbook here that has Ubuntu 9.04 on it, which is no longer supported. It's owned by one of those phobic-to-change people, what should I do with it? :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Upgrade it while they're sleeping
<Azelphur> haha
<MartijnVdS> then tell them a security update came through
<jacobw> are they using UNR?
<MartijnVdS> (but only if/when they ask)
<Azelphur> jacobw: yea
 * jacobw makes a note of explaining upgrades that i want to do as security updates
<Azelphur> haha
<jacobw> Azelphur: doesn't 10.04 have UNR?
<Azelphur> good point
<jacobw> http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/ubuntu-10.04-netbook-i386.iso
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> jacobw: how longs left on the 10.04 support line?
<bigcalm> !10.04
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004 - Supported until April 2013 (Desktop), April 2015 (Server)
<Azelphur> fun
 * jacobw looks forward to 12.04 desktop
 * popey looks across at 12.04 desktop
 * jacobw looks sideways at popey 
<jacobw> is alpha 1 out?
<brobostigon> jacobw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule?action=show&redirect=PreciseReleaseSchedule
<jacobw> :)
<popey> yes is the short answer
<popey> i am running it on my main desktop
<jacobw> cool
<jacobw> i need to start running it at some point
<jacobw> i may as well start now
<popey> http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/
<popey> interesting article
<jacobw> flattr?
<popey> 29112 alan      20   0 2713m 1.6g  42m R   93 21.7 857:40.46 firefox
<popey> le sigh â¹
<directhex> le sigh?
<popey> consuming all my cpu
<popey> 6 tabs
<bigcalm> AlanBell: so, do we have thoughts on a new meeting date?
<jacobw> ok, so i have two mini pci slots, one with space for a full mini pci card and one with space only for a half mini pci card in range of my antenna and both on/off'd by the kill switch
<jacobw> in two seperate laptops, one of which has a full mini pci card and the other has a half mini pci card
<jacobw> i moved the hard drive from the first to the second
<jacobw> (the history is irrelevant, but its how i got here)
<jacobw> rfkill when its loaded detects the kill switch as active for the missing full mini pc
<jacobw> network manager reads /dev/rfkill and sees kill switch active for full mini pci, but doesn't see that half mini pci exists and is not blocked so disables wireless
<jacobw> ok, any ideas?
<jacobw> ifconfig works to bring the interface up and indicator light is as expected
<brobostigon> http://www.unis.no/default.htm interesting place to go to university.
<AlanBell> bigcalm: not yet, but probably not friday evening
<bigcalm> Aww!
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> My week off it almost over :(
<bigcalm> Have to wait until the 23rd until more relaxing can be done
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I've a CC meeting from 5-6 so maybe down a bit late tomorrow will see if there aren't any train delays, waterloo was a bit crazy today
<AlanBell> I can't make it tomorrow czajkowski
<AlanBell> unless things turn out surprisingly
<bigcalm> I'm at an xmas meal tomorrow from 6ish. Maybe next week would be best?
<bigcalm> And it's really short (or no) notice for everybody else too
<AlanBell> yeah, next week sometime for the meeting
<Nafallo> czajkowski: isn't waterloo always a bit crazy? :-)
<AlanBell> probably a lunchtime one
<czajkowski> Nafallo: true
<Nafallo> people stopping randomly in front of you and you have to spin around and jump to avoid further collisions etc...
<Nafallo> thank god for all my dance classes.
<Nafallo> makes me survive London
<bigcalm> Been a while since I've been to the big smoke. Wonder what'll happen
<czajkowski> you'll use google maps a lot
<bigcalm> :)
<czajkowski> nn folks
<bigcalm> Oo, might have to turn on Google Latitude
<bigcalm> Night czajkowski
<Nafallo> czajkowski: gnight :-)
<mgdm> bigcalm: yes, it was a joke :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: phew :)
<bigcalm> mgdm: I must look rather dim
<mgdm> heh heh
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<KrisDouglas> Evening all
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-08
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> morning
<danfish> morning
<czajkowski> ello danfish hows you
<danfish> not bad tx. Public transport for a change - do they have to heat trains hotter than nursing homes?
<danfish> czajkowski: what do you reckon http://www.quins.co.uk/rugby/match_centre.php?section=overview&fixid=158076
<danfish> weekend after fosdem
<czajkowski> danfish: looks good
<AlanBell> morning all
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 15th December 12:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | â  | Happy Hour \o/
<danfish> czajkowski: tickets sl pricey - 32 quid.
<oimon> looks like i was a bit hasty my gpodder last night. uupc failed to copy and i had to listen to LAS mint 12 review on the train instead :-\
<oimon> those LAS guys get a bit worked up and shouty nowadays
<popey> they aways have
<oimon> i think they got worse in the last year or so
<oimon> maybe reflective of the noise in the community as a whole
<popey> was bryan with a y on it?
<oimon> he's left the show
<popey> oh i thought he was 'on a break'
<oimon> they have a mild mannered guy on it instead
<oimon> i interpreted that as the same as when phd students take a break
<oimon> when you leave, you don't wanna think that you'll never come back, so it's a "break"
<popey> I do find many podcasts hard to watch / listen to
<popey> the only two techy ones I listen to frequently are Tuxradar and PCPro
<oimon> i like LAS, but would be better if more informational and less reaction.
<popey> I find most american podcasts to be too....
<popey> american
<oimon> what i find worse is the american ones who try to sound corporate/professional
<oimon> if i picture the guy on the podcast and he's wearing a suit in my mind, it's not what i'm after
<popey> hmm, such as?
<oimon> i tried TWiT....completely american and dull
<oimon> can't remember the other ones - i only usually try one episode max and make judgement on that
<popey> I used to listen to TWiT but it's all very samey
<oimon> once i tried watching diggnation (few years back) and the presenters were both drunk (and seemed quite proud of the fact). there's nothing worse than a sober person having to watch drunked idiots
<smittix> Morning all
<smittix> High fives the taxman
<oimon> hmm, need to enter my tax return
<gordonjcp> oimon: drunk *americans* at that
<gordonjcp> so they've probably had like two 330ml cans of weak horrible beer
<MartijnVdS> Heineken?
<oimon> mind you , i haven't drunk beer for about 10 yrs now, it would have the same effect on me
<Laney> I only listen to uupc, radio 4 choice & adam and joe :3
<MartijnVdS> Laney: TIMC!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc !
<popey> no more adam and joe â¹
<Laney> I listen to that live, not as a podcast
<popey> NONSESNE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
<Laney> LOVE YOU BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
<Laney> WTF
<Laney> just plugged my headphones in and popey was talking
<MartijnVdS> 8-|
<Laney> i think i left uupc looping overnight
 * popey hides in Laney's cupboard
<MartijnVdS> the login sound is now Popey talking
<Laney> want to iron my pants while you're there?
<shauno> so I'm not the only one that puts uupc on when they're having problems getting to sleep
<AlanBell> Laney: popey is great at ironing
<Laney> that was a vast open space
<Laney> this is a new challenge
<gord> heh, just noticed that logitech sell keyboards without number pads, but they also sell separate stand alone number pads. clever logitech
<MartijnVdS> they also sell keyboards with horrible messed-up layouts for the insert/delete/home/end/pageup/pagedown block
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> How's the workplace day going without me?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're here aren't you?
<gord> bigcalm, cancelled *forever* because of *you* - or it would of just been me and davmor2 so we gave it a miss
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, but I'm not working and I'm not in Wolverhampton with gord & Davmor2
<bigcalm> Awwww
<bigcalm> Well, on the 1st day it was just me and davmor2
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> gord: is there one scheduled for Jan?
<gord> bigcalm, not got a date yet, but later in january, i have platform rally early on
<bigcalm> Fair enough :)
<gord> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-K360-Wireless-Keyboard-Victorian/dp/B005BUNK1U/ - yes i often like my keyboard to look like i spilt paint on it
<bigcalm> We can beat out a date once davmor2 is around
<bigcalm> gord: eww
<oimon> wow, they do a mouse too like it
<oimon> looks like a rosharch ink blot test
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<Laney> check out the logo I'm rocking in this pic from the climbing comp
<Laney> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387747_10150514828451756_38579036755_10741593_389722859_n.jpg
<kvarley> How can I get a webpage's contents and display the text of only <td> tags in terminal?
<BigRedS> It depends how complex the html is
<BigRedS> but, generally, with perl/python/similar and an html parsing module
<kvarley> BigRedS: ok ty, I was trying to use php but it's not working so wanted an alternative to try lol
<AlanBell> kvarley: beautifulsoup is a good library for picking stuff out of HTML
<kvarley> AlanBell once again comes to the rescue =]
<kvarley> ty
<kvarley> This page couldn't be sloppier ... I want to retrieve the IP address and Mac Address for each entry. http://paste.ubuntu.com/763688/
<dwatkins> could you parse the html with sed or a php script, kvarley?
<kvarley> dwatkins: I've been trying to do php and cannot get it to work
<bigcalm> http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0659.html :D
<dwatkins> kvarley: how about this? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4629071/how-to-get-anchor-text-using-domdocument
<BigRedS> kvarley: Perl has a nifty module called HTML::TableExtract which makes what it sounds like you're trying to do really easy. But, er, you'd need to know Perl
<Laney> it's perl, you can just mash the keyboard and it will probably work
<kvarley> dwatkins: Thanks, trying to do it now. I've read similar posts on the same site and none have worked so far. It's probably me but anyhoo
<MartijnVdS> ARGH
<MartijnVdS> WHY do they have to send 600 messages to ubuntu-security-announce when there's a kernel bug
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<jussi> are there other auction/second hand PC typ sites in the UK other than ebay?
<bigcalm> ...
<jussi> is the UK all still asleep or what?
<directhex> zzzzzzzzzzz
<MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
<czajkowski> where the hell is davmor2
<czajkowski> jussi: what are you looking to buy ?
<DJones> jussi: You could look at freecycle.org
<oimon> jussi: gumtree?
<oimon> i have loads of PCs to get rid of
<jussi> Im after a vaio p series
<oimon> my local PC repair shop sells stuff like that
<jussi> oimon: could you ask how much?
<oimon> PM'd you with their details
<jussi> thanks
<oimon> prob best to try your local repair store tho
<jussi> oimon: nah, they barely sold those here - and we dont have local repair stores like you do in the UK.
<oimon> where are you? finland?
<oimon> i thought you were in the uj
<oimon> uj/uk
<danfish> Ok - who's stolen all my entropy?
<gord> just wait for a few minutes, you'll get it back
<DJones> danfish: Its been absorbed by the cooler temperatures
<danfish> DJones: ah - that explains it. I thought it was pixies.
<danfish> installing rng-tools seems to have helped
<DJones> Is that a new type of chocolate bar?
<danfish> something like that
<j0nr> Anyone have any experience running an ubuntu ec2 instance?
<danfish> a little
<j0nr> I am following the instruction on the ubuntu wiki (ec2 starters guide) but when I try to start an instance, I just keep getting "Client.InvalidKeyPair.NotFound: The key pair 'jcr_aws_keys' does not exist"
<j0nr> Where does it think the key pair does not exist? I created it on the AWS console, so it definitely exists.
<j0nr> I downloaed the private key bit and saved it but I don't see where that gets referenced?
<danfish> did you put in a pointer to the keypair to use?
<danfish> ie ec2-run-instances ami-image-to-be-run -k ec2-keypair1
<j0nr> danfish: I had this: --key ${EC2_KEYPAIR_EU_WEST_1} and set env var
<j0nr> in the guide its says to just state the name (not the file)
<j0nr> I dont see how the private key i downloaded gets references
<danfish> what happened with
<danfish> ec2-run-instances ami-image-to-be-run -k jcr_aws_keys ?
<j0nr> oh I found it... that keypair was in the wrong region
<danfish> ah
<Barbarian> Hey everyone
<j0nr> i'm in!
<j0nr> danfish: so do you know, if I install stuff in this instance, can that be saved, so when I shut it down I can reboot it just as it was?
<danfish> j0nr: are using elastic block store to hold the image?
<Barbarian> Guys, I'd appreciate your opinion on something. Had the idea today of burning a ton of precise pangolin cds, wrapping them in paper with the ubuntu logo on it, and going to a park and passing them out to anyone who wants during the summer. The problem is that it looks like pangolin won't fit on a CD. Do you think the minimal install is as user-friendly, and does it still have wubi?
<j0nr> danfish: think so
<AlanBell> Barbarian: if you want a stack of official printed CDs for free to hand out then give me a shout
<danfish> j0nr: should be fine then - you can check that on the management interface on the aws website
<Barbarian> AlanBell I'd appreciate that greatly!
<AlanBell> pangolin is likely to fit on a CD I think, there was talk of going to 750MB but I suspect they want to fit to a CD
<Barbarian> ok, if they end up cutting that 10mb bloat it would make life easier
<pangolin> there was talk but I really don't believe they will make it bigger than 1 cd
<pangolin> they could add/remove to the DVD iso if they wanted.
<Barbarian> Romanian lug channel is so dead :( makes me sad
<popey> so are many UK ones.
<Barbarian> Definitely need to include a leaflet showing how to get to the ubuntu IRC channel with those CDs
<Barbarian> to show it's a community, not just an OS
<chrisjrob> it is a chicken and egg thing - people won't go there unless people are there
<chrisjrob> perhaps you should log in a dozen times under different nicks and talk to yourself ;)
<Barbarian> lol
<chrisjrob> only way to get intelligent conversation
<Barbarian> hahaha
<popey> that reminds me
<shauno> I'm still convinced cztab is multiple people, but that's the other way around
<czajkowski> shauno: one of me is more than enough
<Barbarian> ?
<Barbarian> #newhere
<Barbarian> btw, anybody else here a desura gamer out of interest?
<Barbarian> I'll take that as a no. Ah well
<oimon> it's v quiet here and at work - everybody winding down?
<oimon> or really busy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Just FYI http://www.alfresco.com/media/releases/2011/12/sap-global-it/
<Barbarian> Relaxing with a cup of tea, personally oimon
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Ubuntu IRC Council - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/12/08/ubuntu-irc-council/
<danfish> oimon: madly busy
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: SAP? What's that?
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> You forgot that quick!
<chrisjrob> blanked it out, as you should do forthwith
<Barbarian> Right, should probably register a nick
<Barbarian> brb
<Barbariandude> Why can't I do mode +X?
<popey> Is this a joke?
<popey> I don't know, why can't you do mode +X?
<Barbariandude> doesn't seem to be working
<Barbariandude> unknown mode flag, is what freenode is saying
<DJones> Barbariandude: What is mode +X ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Ever get a TP? http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/07/hp-touchpad-ebay/
<popey> no, saw that and figured they will all go for stupid money
<DJones> Barbariandude: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
<KrimZon_2> popey: because the IRSSI
<Barbariandude> DJones it's an IRC setting that uses the IRC ip instead of your own ip in /whois
<Barbariandude> doesn't seem to be listed there
<DJones> Barbariandude: May not be available on freenode, if you want a cloak to hide your ip address, you need to join #freenode and ask a staffer to set an unaffiliated cload for you
<DJones> !cloak
<lubotu3> To get any kind of cloak (ubuntu member or any other kind) you first need to set up your nick as detailed in this FAQ: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup -  For Ubuntu member cloaks, ask in #ubuntu-irc and provide your launchpad page, for unaffiliated ones, ask in #freenode.
<Barbariandude> right, will go there, thanks DJones
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: oh, they're doing it fixed price
<DJones> !register | Barbariandude Just make sure you've followed this first
<lubotu3> Barbariandude Just make sure you've followed this first: Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<Barbariandude> DJones, yup, did that
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: taken a look at yacy yet?
<Barbariandude> Yacy is really cool. Still not many useful results as it's so new, but still cool
<jonathonf> i've also had a look at yacy. first impressions: too heavy to run, results not good enough
<popey> depends what you use it for
<jonathonf> what do you use it for?
<Barbariandude> jonathonf, you can turn down the RAM usage on the admin page. My problem with it is that it tends to crash during heavy crawls
<Barbariandude> It's died about 4 times during a crawl of wikipedia for me
<jonathonf> it's not just the ram usage; it's quite cpu intensive when you initiate a search
<jonathonf> it would probably be fine on my i5 laptop, but it's painful on my Atom netbook
<Barbariandude> jonathonf, not really noticed that on my i7
<jonathonf> well you wouldn't  :P
<popey> jonathonf: could be useful as an appliance for intranet search
<jonathonf> ah, yes
<Barbariandude> Got my cloak
<Barbariandude> :D
<directhex> i'm too hip for a cloak
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Artwork for articles is lacking for FOSS organisations - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/12/08/artwork-for-articles-is-lacking-for-foss-organisations/
<Barbariandude> Anybody seen this? http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/12/you-cant-opt-out-of-the-no-lawsuits-xbox-360-tos-update-after-all.ars
<Barbariandude> Ridiculous
<popey> meh
<Barbariandude> And irl friends keep telling me "Why use linux? Come on, buy battlefield 3, who cares if Origin is spyware. Go back to Windows, it's easier! Microsoft isn't that bad, Bill Gates runs a charity!"
<Barbariandude> And by this point they think I'm a wearer of tinfoil hats.
<directhex> Barbariandude, same terms in Steam and PSN terms of use
<directhex> also, not legally enforcable outside the US
<Barbariandude> directhex, Not really. Steam has inbuilt into it's ToS the limitation of software directly related to steam (not so familiar with PSN, can't comment). Origin explicitly says in its ToS it will scan your harddrive and sell data to third parties.
<directhex> didn't world of warcraft do that, in 2004?
<directhex> watcher or guardian or something
<Barbariandude> Really? Didn't hear about it, lemme go digging
<directhex> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2005/10/new-gaming-feature-spyware
<Barbariandude> Wow. Just wow. Good thing I never played it...
<christel> AlanBell: what time train did we say we were aiming for?
<AlanBell> christel: 16:27 or something like that I think
<AlanBell> 16:28
<AlanBell> who is going to surbiton tonight?
<AlanBell> I can't make it, still stuck in Basingstoke
<bigcalm> 16:27?
 * bigcalm panicks
<danfish> o/ for Surbiton
<bigcalm> Oh, 16:28, that's ok then
<AlanBell> bigcalm: trains from Farnham are sluggish
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'll be setting off from here about 9am, hopefully I'll be in time for the train ;)
<AlanBell> hope so!
<bigcalm> This is the disadvantage of not living where all the action happens
<AlanBell> next year we will all come round your house
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> We've found the spare bed in the spare room, so sounds ok to me
 * oimon envisages a giant slug moving through the english surreyside
<daubers> o/
<Laney> mmm tangfastics
<kvarley> Slightly off-topic but I know there are PHP coders in here. Does anybody know why my script doesn't work? The loop to output table cells doesn't work :/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/763910/
<oimon> what RAM size does PAE go up to?
<buzz_> launchpad builders have an 11 hour build queue again. this is rubbish. the launchpad ppa build service just gets worse and worse.
<oimon> what's slowing it down?
<buzz_> builders have been removed until saturday or something. probably problems. just seems to happen more and more often. one of the admins might push my build priority up though for my packages which would be nice
<buzz_> (since i whinged on the launchpad channel) ;-)
<czajkowski> 16:42 -!- Topic for #launchpad: Build delays due to earlier hardware failure
<buzz_> yeh hardware then. :(
<christel> AlanBell: i'd love t do surbiton but i unfortunately have to wrap up some work for a client, so i doubt i'll finish before 8-8.30, at which point i suspect i'll be too tired to head out and play!
<christel> so i shall save myself for tomorrow!
<AlanBell> me too!
<AlanBell> should be fun
<AlanBell> oimon: 64GB I think
<popey> buzz_: welcome to the club
<popey> buzz_: my ppa builds were 7.5 hours yesterday
<buzz_> :(
<popey> I think it's because there's loads of recipes to build daily stuff
<buzz_> last week or the week before i had 14 hour queue for a package
<popey> like daily mozilla, openoffice etc
<buzz_> i see
<popey> those things take ages
<popey> my iddy biddy package doesnt â¹
<buzz_> i got two tiny little packages waiting (emgd / xorg driver for o2 joggler)
<buzz_> popey, im sure your package is bigger than mine ;-)
<popey> nope âº
<buzz_> are are you using utf8 smileys? :)
<popey> buzz_: mine failed to build anyway
<popey> buzz_: yes â¨
<buzz_> heh
<Laney> the real archive is super fast! get stuff in there!
<oimon> wow - seen that pic of the wind turbine in flames?
<popey> no
<buzz_> linkage required
<oimon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16094360
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuFYTVF2urE made me smile tho
<oimon> image 13 of 13
<buzz_> wow.
<buzz_> popey, haha
<oimon> thats what i tell my boy what will happen if you overwind your wind up car
<buzz_> popey, funnily enough, that was also my reponse to that famous extreme ironing video ;-)
<buzz_> oh my god. trampoline
<oimon> what language is that on the video
<popey> no idea
<oimon> i've already watched it 5 times
<nigelb> AlanBell / Pendulum - Is it possible to use onscreen keyboard for installing Ubuntu?
<Pendulum> nigelb: I am fairly certain there should be an accessibility profile for that, but I've never done it.
<nigelb> Interesting.
<Adriannom> i used to have 2gb ram, now i have 8gb.  seems like apps now see that as a policy to hog even more ram.  i thought it was silly before the upgrade, now it's just stupid.  chrome regularly takes up 2gb, even eog takes up 200mb because i'm looking at a very small resolution png.  what's going on?
<Adriannom> in fact chrome, ff, and opera all hog more ram than ever before
<gord> Adriannom, they aren't hogging ram
<gord> basically, there is ram there, so its worth caching things in there, its virtual memory
<Adriannom> gord, i'm aware of caching, that is not what is happening
<Adriannom> ohh wait
<gord> Adriannom, riddle me this, does it show up as VIRT ram or actual resident memory? ;)
<gord> firefox eats up 1.3gb of virtual memory, thats great! only 365 regular :)
<Adriannom> nah i'm looking at free -m, -/+ buffers/cache
<gord> at any rate, having applications use up ram you give them is a good thing, no matter how much they are using (as long as they aren't using so much that you run out of free space or don't have enough for other programs), it means they can access more content quicker
<Adriannom> gord, well the issue is that i'm getting slowdown all the time.  i'm trying to use the system and sick of waiting like 5-10 seconds for everything to stop chugging away before a simple graphics update happens
<Adriannom> not necessarily graphics update, but you know what i mean, for something to happen, like a window i pressed X on to close
<gord> sounds like you have a memory leak in a graphics driver somewhere
<Adriannom> the weird thing is i've always experienced this kind of thing no matter what machine i'm on
<gord> that is weird, can't say i experience the same
<Adriannom> last machine it turned out the 2gb ram was faulty, so i had high hopes for this machine.  8gb tests fine but i'm back to the old slow running
<Adriannom> am i supposed to be rebooting every few days?
<gord> i don't reboot my machines, just suspend
<Adriannom> or are my expectations just too high, and thinking that things should be running faster than they did on windows 95 is just a dream? ;)
<gord> things don't run faster than they did on windows 95 ;) but they do much much more
<MartijnVdS> full-screen HD video runs MUCH better than it did on Win95 machines
<Adriannom> yeah i know, but i'm just tired of buying better hardware and seeing ZERO difference
<Adriannom> which has been happening for years
<Adriannom> the most intensive thing i use is virtualbox, but i'm getting these problems even without vbox running
<Adriannom> let alone the same problems on the actual vms
<Adriannom> and web browsers aren't the worst candidates but they are the worst by far.  i don't see why they just casually take up several gigs of ram when before i didn't even have that
<Adriannom> i hear chrome has a memory leak, but ff and opera too?
<Adriannom> but you say you don't get the problem gord, so i wonder if the problem is with me or my usage of the machine, but i just can't imagine what.  all i've been doing is vbox and web browsing.  oh and a little inkscape.  doesn't seem like there's much to go wrong really
<gord> inkscape can go a little crazy with the memory usage, but yeah i don't see it causing that much trouble
<gord> Adriannom, you are on 64 bit right?
<Adriannom> yup
<ali1234> Adriannom: you need 16GB, and turn off untiy
<ali1234> then ubuntu runs fast
<ali1234> REALLY fast
<AlanBell> 8GB is sufficient
<Adriannom> ali1234, i don't have unity, i'm on 10.04
<Adriannom> and i don't install any flashy crap
<Adriannom> apart from flash...
<ali1234> 8gb is sufficient if you don't use adblock plus and flashblock
<Adriannom> ali1234, damn right it's sufficient... so i wish i knew why i was still having problems :/
<AlanBell> nigelb: I have not been all the way through the installer using onboard, but you can start onboard without using a hard keyboard and I have no reason to suspect it would cause any problems with ubiquity
<gord> i have 2gb, run unity and flash, everything is fine here :P
<ali1234> well if you don't use adblock+ and flashblock then the adverts will slow the computer right down
<ali1234> if you do use them, they double firefox memory usage, = you need 16GB
<nigelb> AlanBell: Heh, someone was trying to install without a keyboard connected.
<Adriannom> so ads can hog resources?
<nigelb> He eventually went back and connected a physical keyboard.
<ali1234> yes especially flash ones
<AlanBell> nigelb: click the accessibility icon in the top panel, and start onboard
<Adriannom> so it can be dependant on websites.  that's interesting
<AlanBell> nigelb: precise?
<ali1234> and especially on 10.04 which has that leaky firefox, leaky nvidia driver, and rubbish old version of flash
<nigelb> AlanBell: Don't think so.
<Adriannom> i have new flash but that other leaky stuff doesn't sound good
<AlanBell> nigelb: ok, well I just tried in precise and it works, I have no doubt it was failier in earlier releases
<Adriannom> i'm using nvidia
<Adriannom> ali1234, what would you recommend?  i wanted lts really... :s
<AlanBell> Adriannom: precise Alpha 1 \o/
<ali1234> yeah it's a pity that the last lts was such a dud really
<ali1234> the nvidia driver in 10.04 leaks about 2GB/day
<ali1234> so yeah daily reboots...
<Adriannom> what would you recommend?
<ali1234> mint
<Adriannom> why mint and not say, latest ubuntu?
<ali1234> mint has a sane desktop ootb
<AlanBell> Adriannom: I am using 11.10 and it works OK
<ali1234> ubuntu has to be tweaked and tweaked before it is usable
<AlanBell> I have precise in a VM and it works better than 11.10
<ali1234> besides, mint *is* ubuntu
<Adriannom> alpha is scary, this is a production machine
<ali1234> define "production"
<Adriannom> it will be used to run services and vms on a home network as well as webdev work
<Adriannom> basically i'm hoping not to change the system for as long as possible, hence lts
<Adriannom> maybe i should just make it headless and use a vm for work
<AlanBell> personally I would be really tempted to go for precise, but be a bit careful of updates and have a plan to get the data off and reinstall if an update goes bad
<AlanBell> things might not go bad (there is never an intention for them to go bad)
<AlanBell> and then you end up on a supported good LTS for 5 years
<AlanBell> and you might file some bugs and help get your 5 year desktop as right as you want it to be
<AlanBell> what type of VMs are you running?
<Adriannom> xp, ubuntu
<AlanBell> kernel upgrades could potentially stop virtualbox working temporarily
<ali1234> well 10.04 is supposed to be supported still right? yet it still has show stopping bugs
<AlanBell> KVM or virtualbox?
<Adriannom> vbox
<Adriannom> ali1234, yeah that's what i was thinking...  i'm wondering why i have to consider an alpha :s
<ali1234> and don't give me the "we can't support proprietary drivers" line
<ali1234> because if that's the case, why did you make a desktop system that all but requires proprietary drivers?
<Adriannom> i already lost a big bunch of confidence in ubuntu with them testing a totally unready unity on stable releases :s
<AlanBell> ok, so precise will run those just fine, however if/when a kernel upgrade comes along, it might hose the virtualbox module temporarily
<ali1234> precise will work fine until someone checks something bad into the repos and you update and then you just get a black screen after you reboot
<AlanBell> I think unity requires an intel chipset
<ali1234> oh, and nvidia driver will probably stop working for about 3 months some time between now and release
<Adriannom> AlanBell, maybe i will run 10.04 headless and install the alpha on a few vms
<Adriannom> sound like a plan?
<AlanBell> yeah, that is a plan
<Adriannom> unity is cpu specific and they ship it as the default desktop?  lol
<AlanBell> GPU specific
<AlanBell> well it isn't really
<Adriannom> it just isn't ready? ;)
<AlanBell> but the intel graphics (apart from GMA500) just work
<Adriannom> or wasn't... haven't tried the latest
<Adriannom> anyway
<ali1234> unity requires 3d
<Adriannom> i can imagine this channel has seen a lot of debates about unity
<ali1234> or else you have to run the simplified 2d version
<Adriannom> :P
<Adriannom> i didn't have many technical difficulties getting unity running, and i still think it wasn't ready
<Adriannom> however, gord, ali1234, AlanBell, thanks for all your help, at least i can work out why ubuntu 10.04 never ran right for me ;)
<ali1234> oh, it still isn't ready. there's no question of that
<Adriannom> ali1234, in which case it should not be default
<ali1234> quite
<Adriannom> but *shrug*
<ali1234> but it's not like they had a choice
<Adriannom> what do you mean?
<ali1234> i mean gnome shell is even worse
<ali1234> and kde hasn't been ready for the past 10 years
<ali1234> and doesn't look like it is getting any better either
<Adriannom> it's familiar, fast, stable, well thought out, mature
<ali1234> kde?
<Adriannom> unity is well thuoght out(ish?)
<ali1234> or gnome shell?
<Adriannom> either
<ali1234> kde4 is obviously none of those things
<Adriannom> ah ok.  i'm a gnome user personally
<ali1234> gnome shell feels fast and stable but not well thought out
<Adriannom> it's comprised the most well thought out interfaces so far (that are not in alpha/beta)
<Adriannom> *comprised of
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> the whole thing fails horrible on multimonitor
<ali1234> it's like whoever came up with the idea didn't even think about it
<ali1234> even unity works (slightly) better at that
<Adriannom> while i agree it's well past time to have something better, it just hasn't really happened
<ali1234> i don't agree
<Adriannom> well, what do you use?
<ali1234> unity
 * Adriannom shrugs
<Adriannom> i will probably give it another go
<ali1234> the only decent linux desktop environment is no longer supported
<ali1234> unity is the second best currently
<ali1234> the best one was only the best one because canonical made it the best one
<ali1234> before that happened, the best one was kde
<Adriannom> they need to stop breaking stuff that already worked in gnome though.  like moving the title and menu to the top of the screen.  apparently you can disable it but every method i tried came across problems.
<ali1234> so i still hope they can do it again with unity
<ali1234> yeah the global menu sucks
<Adriannom> yeah.  when they are doing less crazy i will be happy ;o
<Adriannom> but i'm not complaining about the baby steps
<Adriannom> just that they are happening on my newly installed production machines, if ubuntu has anything to say about it
<AlanBell> I think mac users don't hate their global menu, not quite sure why
<Adriannom> haven't they always had it?  and also don't they love being different?
<AlanBell> yes, they have always had it, but they get new users all the time
<Adriannom> yeah but all those new users love being different right?  isn't that the kind of person they market to? ;)
<AlanBell> when people move from Windows to OS X they seem to not mind quirky stuff like the global menu and a dock that mixes running stuff and not running stuff
<Adriannom> all the people i know that moved to mac hated it, apart from the people who struggle with even basic computer usage
<Adriannom> i've never really used it for more than 10 minutes
<Adriannom> so i really have no idea what it's all about.  it could just be 99% marketing for all i know
<popey> I have a friend who wont let windows in the house
<popey> she owns two macs, and when her daughter asked for a netbook she asked me to put ubuntu on it, rather than have windows
<AlanBell> I am just wondering if there is something in the mac implementation of global menus that is different/better?
<Adriannom> did windows kick her dog or something? :p
<popey> AlanBell: they dont disappear for a start
<ali1234> the reason mac users love global menu and ubuntu users don't is simple
<ali1234> everyone who likes global menu already bought a mac
<ali1234> selection bias in action
<danfish> happy hour pub has a live band starting in an hour
<Adriannom> i wonder how they got to "let's remove the menu from the thing the menu is about", without realising how silly that sounds
<danfish> wasn't expecting that
<Adriannom> the one thing it's got going for it imo is it makes me feel nostalgic
<Adriannom> good ol' workbench :)
<gordonjcp> what's the current theory on streaming live video to the web?
<gord> ever wanted a giant Xorg logo in your home? amazon has you covered http://www.amazon.co.uk/CROSS-Modern-Coffee-Table-Colour/dp/B003W643TI
<MartijnVdS> it's not even black/white alternating
<MartijnVdS> like the default X background
<jacobw> happy hour is in surrey :|
<jacobw> surrey != west london
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: it's close though
 * jacobw huffs
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: (closer than, say, the north of Scotland)
<danfish> jacobw: why the huff?
<jacobw> ha, i assumed west london meant 'the west end'
<MartijnVdS> haha naive city boy ;)
<danfish> big place this londinium
<AlanBell> christel: slight change of plan, I will already be in London
<christel> AlanBell: awww!
<christel> that means i will have to work out how to navigate london!
<christel> :p
<AlanBell> I might meet you at waterloo
<popey> AlanBell: I'll be coming to waterloo with mrs p
<christel> waterloo is such an excellent idea!
<christel> <3
<MartijnVdS> â« Waterloo
<czajkowski> whooo fireworks going on outside
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> w00p!  New job starting next year in London :D
<andylockran> now looking for places to live.
<AlanBell> yay
<andylockran> AlanBell: mightily chuffed
<andylockran> hopefully it'll mean I'll be able to make more of the social events
<AlanBell> rightly so, what are you doing?
<andylockran> AlanBell: moving from SysAdmin to Project Management
<andylockran> and digital strategy
<AlanBell> nice
<AlanBell> did your time in India help with the interview?
<andylockran> AlanBell: yes, very much so.
<AlanBell> cool
<andylockran> The interview went really well, the guy interviewing me saw some work I did at the polical autumn conferences
<andylockran> we had a big screen up for the #healthdebate at each of the conferences, he'd organised the twitterfall on the screen - but I ended up doing the live tweeting whilst he did the gatekeeping
<andylockran> he was impressed with my ability to not get us sued by misquoting what the politicians were saying (especially given Health is so contentious a subject at the moment, and we had Polly Toynbee, Stephen Dorrell, John Healy, Paul Burstow and Andrew Lansley all participating (though not at the same conference)
<andylockran> I've been brought on board to help them with their ecommerce strategy, whilst also developing my own Project Management skills.  They've also got a good charity portfolio, so that's attractive too.
<AlanBell> sounds excellent
<gord> congrats andylockran
<andylockran> thanks
<andylockran> just need to find a replacement sysadmin for my current job now...
<andylockran> had quite a few CVs in but the majority of them are hmmm at best.
<andres-kain> congrats andylockran ! Can I ask what charity work?
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ping
<AlanBell> o/
<bigcalm> \o/
<andylockran> andres-kain: I'm not sure which charities I'll be working with to begin with - first part of the job is to sanitise internal systems
<andylockran> any recommendations for good spots in London to live?
<popey> andylockran: ask Ng or meltemi
<Nafallo> andylockran: jpds have been in most of them. might be worth asking him.
<andylockran> kewl, thanks guys
<gordonjcp> andylockran: is such a thing possibly?
<gordonjcp> *possible
<andres-kain> andylockran I recomend the richmond upon thames area. A small cheap place called Ham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham,_London
<andylockran> gordonjcp: I hope so
<Nafallo> I would avoid that place based on the name of it.
<Nafallo> just saying.
<Nafallo> srsly. ham?
<andres-kain> yep. best place in london. ham.
<andres-kain> Could be improved if it was called Serrano Ham.
<Nafallo> ham is just a tad to close to spam for me.
<andylockran> I dont' fancy Clapham, both me and my partner will be working centrally
<andylockran> but yeah - will hopefully discuss tomorrow
<andylockran> night all !
<andylockran> and thanks for the good wishes :)
<andylockran> and if anyone knows of a decent SysAdmin in Birmingham looking for a job, get them to msg me please ..
<andres-kain> If you are a vegetarian you will be happy to know that the term vegetarian was coined first in ham. First place of the world.
<directhex> omg it's aquarius
<aquarius> it is, but only briefly
<Nafallo> who's aquarius ?
<Nafallo> ;-)
 * Laney is an aquarius
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-09
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> danfish: hi, did it end up just you and Liam?
<DJones> Morning
<danfish> AlanBell: yup
<AlanBell> oh well
<danfish> no probs - dreadful weather
<danfish> pubs pretty good
<AlanBell> yay, just sold my daughters dolls house on ebay
<oimon> she'll resent you for it when she's grown up ;)
<AlanBell> should pay for some beers this evening </parenting fail>
<gord> but it does some other kid is going to have a great christmas
<gord> or... a nostalgic 20-something, one o the two
<oimon> if you go to the museum of childhood in bethnal green, it's full of adults saying "hey i used to have that but my parents threw it away/sold it..the swines"
<oimon> except me, who's saying meh that star wars collection is lame
 * oimon discovers he has mod points on slashdot
<czajkowski> http://voices.canonical.com/isd/?p=180  Good to see happening
<gord> paypal are horrible, really just terrible. but convenient.
<Laney> i am being punished for waking up late by my housemate spening /half an hour/ in the shower
<oimon> Laney: what do people do in there? i don't understand how a shower can take longer than 5 min
<Myrtti> I understand 10 minutes, but I've got long hair and I'm a woman :-P
<danfish> Laney: take revenge by sitting on the bog for 30 mins
<AlanBell> http://www.thecrowntavernec1.co.uk/ is where some people will be tonight after the christmas meal at Dans Le Noir
<oimon> i understand that because you can read on the bog
<oimon> although kindles and tablets are a bit unhygeinic
<AlanBell> dans le noir is here http://g.co/maps/np6u9 the pub is here http://g.co/maps/qqrx7
<gordonjcp> I just give my phone a skoosh of antistatic antibacterial foam cleaner after perusing slashdot on the bog
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: that seems a strangely appropriate place to read slashdot
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well, quite
<PendragonUK> Morning all...
<AlanBell> morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Myrtti> interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16050269
<Myrtti> "How Scandinavian is Scotland?"
<ubuntubhoy> not very
<ubuntubhoy> apart from its bloody freezing
<gordonjcp> it's not *that* cold
<ubuntubhoy> its not that warm either right now
<gordonjcp> 2C
<Myrtti> balmy
<ubuntubhoy> and snowing in Glasgow
<ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, you from Norway ?
<Myrtti> Finland
<ubuntubhoy> what you at today, -12ish ?
<gordonjcp> I keep forgetting how far north even the southern tip of Finland is
<Myrtti> 0C from the looks of what Unity shows me
<Myrtti> last weeks Scotland storm is just hitting us
<Myrtti> FMI predicts +10cm snow today
<gordonjcp> it's way further north than Sweden
 * gordonjcp is from the same latitude as Gothenburg
<davmor2> morning all
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 where have you been mister!
<Myrtti> Tampere is good way north of Shetland islands it seems
<davmor2> czajkowski: Painting the flat as I had the week off :P
<Myrtti> about the same as faroes
<PendragonUK> Hi peeps, anyone help me out??
<davmor2> PendragonUK: I don't know did you ask something?
<czajkowski> davmor2: bigcalm had the week off but he was on here 24/7
<davmor2> czajkowski: let me say this again I was on holiday painting I wasn't in the office :P  besides he has bip or something set up and I have never bothered :D
<PendragonUK> I ran update this morning and there are a couple of updates with issues Quote "This update does not come from a source that supports changelogs."
<PendragonUK> Quote "The action would require the installation of packages from unauthenticated sources."
<PendragonUK> Quote "libgdata is a GLib-based library for accessing online service APIs using the GData protocol â most notably, Google's services. It provides APIs to access the common Google services, and has full asynchronous support. This package contains the common data files for libgdata."
<PendragonUK> Should I install or not?
<davmor2> PendragonUK: it sounds like you already have installed it if this is an update
<davmor2> PendragonUK: I'm assuming it is google gears or chrome you installed right?
<PendragonUK> OK Just not used to warnings like this, well not from Ubuntu
<PendragonUK> Yea Chrome is installed
<davmor2> PendragonUK: basically what happens is google setup effectively a fake repo so you get updates, but it isn't signed by USC so it is saying if you trust the source install away but I don't know it
<PendragonUK> Well I have tried but it's working, every time I try it blocks the install
<davmor2> PendragonUK: try sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -f upgrade
<PendragonUK> Thanks I'll give it a go...
<X3N> Intel OTC are hireing an intern if anyone knows of anyone http://t.co/CxJUVmFh
<X3N> *hiring
<PendragonUK> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!   libgdata-common libgdata13 Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y
<PendragonUK> That Worked Thanks
<PendragonUK> cya peeps, thanks for your help...
<danfish> my local council are holding a "winter festival" tomorrow. PC gone mad
<AlanBell> festivus \o/
<czajkowski> davmor2: :(
<czajkowski> danfish: :(
 * AlanBell is on a train
<oimon> danfish: is it winter yet?
<davmor2> czajkowski: Oi madame don't flash my name up cause it begins with da :P
<sagaci> oimon: winter starts in December, til end of Feb..?
<czajkowski> :p
<AlanBell> off to the hall of the worshipful company of information technologists
<gord> no
<gord> winter starts when my toes are cold
<gord> its like the groundhog thing
<gord> but with my toes
<gord> and less Bill Murray
<AlanBell> a fair swap
<oimon> i guess a winter festival is OK if held at start of dec
<danfish> gord: do the locals have a 'gord's toes day'
<davmor2> danfish: That's okay demand they celebrate the winter solstice due to the fact that the nations original religion was pagan and Druidism
<gord> oh i wish it could be gords toes day every dayyyy
<oimon> some people might be offended by the word christmas as it has connotations of gluttony and excessive consumerism & spending :)
<danfish> davmor2: I think they are planning to sacrifice a mince pie on the solstice
<davmor2> danfish: haha
<directhex> merry festivus!
<davmor2> gord: We wish you some merry gords toes, we wish you some merry gords toes..........
<danfish> directhex: I don't like your use of the word Merry there - it may upset certain members of the hobbit community
<directhex> pippin festivus
<davmor2> directhex: Are you insinuating that we in England have to be happy!  If so then that would be a fraudulent claim at best :P
<directhex> davmor2,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXSOD1N5lR4
<oimon> has anyone tried the "design your own trainers" nike site?
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/0OAmFMg1XFt5FpeiewoI4t
<oimon> beautiful
<DJones> Where's my sunglasses
<oimon> tried to make the most hideous ones i could
<Myrtti> nice
<Myrtti> that's not horrible... :-<
<oimon> someone probably made a pair in the 80s like this
<davmor2> directhex: you need help
<DJones> Or Tartan ones for the Bay City Rollers :)
<davmor2> directhex: you deserve this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIOzM7SsMo
<directhex> someone clearly didn't watch ren & stimpy as a youth
<oimon> anyone tried finding instagram style scripts for gimp?
<davmor2> directhex: ren and stimpy was post my youth ;)  but I do believe I saw it :) once or twice :D
<davmor2> directhex: of course what you really need to put a smile on your face is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpn2oyEaX8&feature=related :D
<czajkowski> huzza have progress, date for back operation january 6th
<czajkowski> had a date for next week but flying the following week so they dont think thats a wise move
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: whats up with your back :S
<czajkowski> it's a bit fecked since mark
<czajkowski> *march
<czajkowski> I've damaged disc at L4/L5 with a bulging disc
<dogmatic69> ow, sounds painful
<dogmatic69> hope it goes well for you
<czajkowski> thanks
<dogmatic69> too much crouching by a terminal?
<czajkowski> nope just I've had it for years and the last few months it flammed up worse than before
<czajkowski> both my parents have bad backs also
<czajkowski> but they suspect I first injured it when I was about 18 moving house
<dogmatic69> ah, my father has an extra vertebra. squashes all the padding between them and back pain follows
<danfish> czajkowski: microdiscectomy?
<czajkowski> danfish: endoscopic lumbar discetomy... I think
<danfish> that's the one
<czajkowski> danfish: aye just watched the video, may not have been wise to watch it
<danfish> czajkowski: don't worry - most surgeons can do that procedure with their eyes shut and in fact most do ;D
<czajkowski> danfish: not helping! mister!
<czajkowski> am glad I'm gonna be in guys hospital
<danfish> capable hands
<czajkowski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LjlWa-xlW8
<czajkowski> danfish: aye so the only thing I've left to do is find a new gp when I come back after xmas as we're moving so wont be able to go to the current GP
<danfish> where are you moving to?
<czajkowski> I really find this registering for a gp in one area  rule rather annoying
<czajkowski> waterloo
<davmor2> czajkowski: when did you get so gobby every other line is you talking  sharrup ;)
<czajkowski> shrup ya pup
<funkyHat> I haven't bothered finding a GP since moving, but I am moving again after christmas anyway. I should do it then...
<christel> AlanBell: ok, will you meet us at waterloo? or should we find our way to somewhere nearer the venue, if so where? :)
<christel> farringdon?
<davmor2> czajkowski: :P
 * davmor2 throws a waterbomb in czajkowski 's general direction
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi behave you 
<davmor2> czajkowski: What I didn't say it was going to hit you London is a long way from here
<DJones> Heh, this is how to park http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bsK5C8m44JY
<czajkowski> davmor2: mind if I pm ?
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> DJones: mind if I pm
<DJones> czajkowski: Sure, go for it
<davmor2> czajkowski: feel free but you might not like your answers :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: shrup ya pup!
<davmor2> czajkowski: you woke me up tis you're fault :P
<davmor2> bet you guys missed this right :)
<czajkowski> no
<davmor2> czajkowski: that was directed at everyone else I knew you missed it from my greeting this morning :P
<scoundrel50a> I have a bit of a problem, I lost my desktop, on a laptop computer not long ago, and created another user and transfered admin to new user, problem is, when it comes to using opening the Synaptic it calls up the old username and pasword, and I dont know why, can somebody help please.
<dogmatic69> scoundrel50a: maybe its using the user id thing, eg: 1000
<scoundrel50a> have no idea what that is,,,,,
<scoundrel50a> have to log out, Firefox just crashed, brb
<scoundrel50a> sorry back again
<scoundrel50a> its odd because I log in with the new username and pasword, but Synaptic calls up the old one
<scoundrel50a> when I go to open it
<czajkowski> scoundrel50a: is this the same issue you were here recently with and daubers was helping you with it ?
<scoundrel50a> hi, sorry, was doing something else, yes, they started it, and I found out I didnt have the Users and Groups addon, but we never got further than that
 * Laney gets on a train to London :-)
<Laney> complimentary wifi++
<bigcalm[mob]> Hello from Farnham!
<Laney> the ticket machine's time lied to me so i ran
<Laney> turned out i had 7 minutes
<bigcalm[mob]> I hope I'm in the right place ;)
<AlanBell> christel: hiya
<AlanBell> christel: I am currently at Faringdon station in the costa just outside
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: o/
<AlanBell> o/
<scoundrel50a> anybody have any ideas?
<occupy64k> no
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: bit early at the station?
<AlanBell> bigcalm[mob]: yeah, but I was here already (or a couple of hundred meters away)
<bigcalm[mob]> Fair enough
<Laney> which tube station is it for dans le noir?
<AlanBell> Faringdon
<Laney> ty
<popey> ta
<popey> i needed that too
<AlanBell> if scoundrel50a stays online a bit longer I suspect someone would fix his problem
<Laney> i'm wishing that i got first class for the train back now
<AlanBell> is he on dialup or something I wonder
<Laney> last one ...
<bigcalm[mob]> Wishing I had brought my spare phone battery with me. Car chargers are very slow when you are also on irc
<AlanBell> popey: are you meeting christel at waterloo?
<popey> AlanBell: i had not planned to
 * bigcalm[mob] twiddles his thumbs
 * Laney is next to ratcliffe-on-soar
<Laney> it's a bigun
<davmor2> bigcalm[mob]: Moo!
<nigelb> davmor2!
<davmor2> nigelb: Me owld mukka 'ow am ya
<davmor2> MooDoo: Boo!
<Pendulum> nigelb: go to bed :P
<nigelb> davmor2: Have you been away for a long while?
<nigelb> Pendulum: I was peacefully sleeping when someone decided to call my phone. Sigh.
<Pendulum> nigelb: so go back to bed
<davmor2> nigelb: only 4 days
<gord> hey look, snow... wanted to go shopping but whatever
<nigelb> davmor2: ah
<nigelb> Pendulum: heh, will do. son.
<nigelb> *SOOON
<nigelb> Clearly, I need sleep.
<nigelb> 20
<nigelb> bah
<davmor2> gord: :'( I want snow where's the snow
<czajkowski> NO SNOW!
<gord> davmor2, its not really snow...
<gord> its a horrid half snow half sleet mixture
<davmor2> we want snow ignore czajkowski
 * czajkowski glares at davmor2 such a brat
 * davmor2 would throw a snowball at czajkowski but there is no snow
<oimon> lovely skies over london
<AlanBell> very clear
<davmor2> AlanBell: ditto here
<AlanBell> should have brought a hat or something, might get cold later
<davmor2> AlanBell: By cold you mean snow right :D
<czajkowski> there is no snow
<czajkowski> there was fireworks last night
<gord> fireworks are very different than snow, but i can see how you could of been confused
 * davmor2 starts praying for snow now he knows czajkowski hates it :P  czajkowski wear some decent shoes when you go out tonight incase you get caught in the snow ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: I hope your computer crashes!
<davmor2> czajkowski: as long as you can explain to my boss why I'm not working I don't care :P
<davmor2> czajkowski: anyway excuse me for telling you to wear sensible footwear when the forecast is for snow
<AlanBell> doctormo is on his way here
 * popey gets changed
 * hamitron wonders what sort of popey we get as replacement
<oimon> one with a cape
<hamitron> magic one?
<davmor2> no it just means that popey is adding an e to his nick and eating a can of spinach
<hamitron> :)
<Laney> oh dear
<Laney> whatever details did I register my oyster with?
<oimon> fred bloggs?
<davmor2> Laney: quite obviously not those ones
<Laney> email / postcode
<Laney> Due to a site update, we need to reset your password.
<Laney> Please call the Oyster helpline on 0845 330 9876.
<Laney> quality
<oimon> they're gonna get you
<danfish> I thought you were all dining in the dark tonight? Perfect excuse not to get changed.
<oimon> smell-o-vision
<oimon> i wonder how many people have walked out of a first-date when it wasn't going very well, and the other person didn't realise for 10 minutes?
<hamitron> oimon, why 10 mins?
<oimon> if the date was going badly, and happening in pitch dark...awkward silences might occur
<hamitron> could be interesting if going well though ;)
<DJones> And then you get outside in a lit area and find that the female, 25, GSOH, is actually an 18 stone rugby prop forward with a high pitched voice :)
<oimon> yeah...i'll meet you in there..blind date etc
<hamitron> I'd never ask one of them on a date, nvm a date in a dark room ;/
<DJones> I've only ever been on one blind date, never again
<hamitron> bet it is scary tbh
<oimon> must be awkward
 * Laney has breached london
<oimon> a "date" creates too much expectation
<DJones> Definately awkward when you don't them or what they like, so difficult to chat, although you do get the chance for life histories
<DJones> Allocate BSP Cleardown
<DJones> Grr
<oimon> sudo rm /*
<oimon> woops
<hamitron> no -rf? :/
<oimon> alias rm=rm -rf
<hamitron> bah, lazy
<hamitron> ;)
<Laney> won't work, unless you --no-preserve-root
<hamitron> never tried tbh
<oimon> alias rm= echo"removing $1"
<oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWOjmvWPRvQ
<oimon> we need a bot that tells us the title of a youtube link :(
<DJones> or a bot that just parses every line, looks for a reference to youtube and tells you its a rick astley video
<hamitron> lets just ban youtube?
<AlanBell> or shut it down?
<hamitron> both sound good
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> agh train
 * oimon runs
<Laney> arriving
<Laney> where are people?
<AlanBell> Laney: where are you?
<Laney> st p
<AlanBell> ok, Faringdon station
<AlanBell> turn right, find costa
<Laney> aye aye
<davmor2> Noooooo then how would you be able to view things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
<AlanBell> Laney: me and doctormo so far
<hamitron> davmor2, I can't
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> unless it is special
<hamitron> then there would be a reason to download it
<davmor2> AlanBell: Use the link above it will fill the floor with party revellers
<davmor2> hamitron: It's fantastic
<hamitron> worth the download?
<hamitron> :/
<davmor2> hamitron: Oh yes if only to annoy people local to you :)
<hamitron> k, 18 mins download time
<hamitron> ;/
<davmor2> hamitron: Ouch that's slowband you're on there
<hamitron> reason I ban youtube
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> nothing worse, than someone downloading a vid on youtube, while I play a game
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> bbl, find something to eat
<Laney> ok, at st pancras now
<Laney> see you shortly
<Univoid> hi all having a problem when i click dashboard and type terminal no terminal icon shows so i cant run it also software centre will nop open it opens then closes any ideas?
<Univoid> not**
<Univoid> in fact i cannot find any programs that i type such as system monitor
<Univoid> its as tho they do not exist
<davmor2> Univoid: sounds like your install didn't complete
<Univoid> it worked yesterday
<Univoid> how can i fix this
<davmor2> Univoid: try pressing ctrl+alt+t that should open a terminal
<Univoid> got a terminal
<Univoid> what do we reckon is messed up?
<davmor2> Univoid: Pass but try sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade and see if it throws up any errors
<davmor2> or updates
<Univoid> how do i fix my package info that did not throw any errors
<Univoid> i have some that say ign
<davmor2> Univoid: you'll need someone with more experience than I for that one
<Univoid> well i just tried to run synaptic from command line and it said it was not installed
<Univoid> is there anyway to install all fresh install packages or is it easier to just format u reckon
<AlanBell> anyone wanting to join us in the Crown http://www.thecrowntavernec1.co.uk/ from about 9ish would be most welcome
<buzz_> AlanBell, holy crap @ london prices :-)
<buzz_> AlanBell, should meet in a samuel smiths pub!
<Gizmo_the_Great> hey guys. I got a Drobo FS NAS box. Attached via ethernet (eth0). According to this (http://support.drobo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/165) it should be listed as a dev/sdx but lssci isn't showing it up and its not listed in /dev
<Gizmo_the_Great> Any ideas how I go about mounting it? Accessing it?
<Gizmo_the_Great> I know the system to be working because I configured at work using Windows and the Windows configuration utility
<Gizmo_the_Great> I'm led to believe by Drobo help and tech support that providing it got latest firmware etc Linux should see it
<Gizmo_the_Great> I using 2.6.32-31-generic
 * AlanBell is in the pub
<MartijnVdS> Gizmo_the_Great: is it iscsi?
<MartijnVdS> Gizmo_the_Great: you may need to install stuff to see iscsi drives
 * brobostigon is jealous of AlanBell :(
<brobostigon> QI :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [James Tait] Social networking  youre (probably) doing it wrong - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/12/09/social-networking-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong/
<AlanBell> choo choo
 * AlanBell is on a train with christel and bigcalm
<mgdm> evenin'
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-10
<Laney> loughborough...
<Laney> for some reason the train stops for 10 minutes at every station
<funkyHat> Train driver's probably speeding
<Laney> made it
<Imli> Hi can anybody help me?
<Imli> I have problem with my huawei 3g USB on UBUNTU 11.04.It is not connecting
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<christel> good morning :)
<AlanBell> morning all o/
<MooDoo> morning all
<christel> good morning AlanBell! :)
<christel> annd MooDoo!
<AlanBell> christel \o/
<AlanBell> we had yummy food in the dark last night
<AlanBell> czajkowski: hows things?
<christel> we did indeed!
<christel> i cant believe we had shark
<AlanBell> with frikkin lasers on their heads
<christel> hahaha yes!
<christel> GOOD MORNING bigcalm[mob]
<bigcalm[mob]> Ack, not so loud
<popey> heh
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: i think i found one of your houses on mc
<bigcalm[mob]> Good morning christel :)
<popey> bigcalm[mob]: on top of a hill with an unfinished garden
<bigcalm[mob]> popey: that sounds like mine
<bigcalm[mob]> I have to say, the T-Mobile reception isn't the best here
<bigcalm[mob]> Good to see many of you last night :)
<bigcalm[mob]> Though I didn't see any of you for awhile
<popey> hah
<christel> haha
<christel> such a comedian! :p
<bigcalm[mob]> Looks like christel just defused a bomb
<christel> I AM AMAZING
<bigcalm[mob]> Again with the shouting
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<jutnux> brobostigon: Howdy
<brobostigon> hi jutnux
<czajkowski> AlanBell: meh, if I could have a new body for xmas I'd be happy
 * christel gives czajkowski a christmas body
<christel> (you now look like santa, sorry)
<christel> <3
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> back is giving me jib
<czajkowski> but I do have a date for op in January
<czajkowski> so if it could just behave till then I'd be happy
<christel> oh good! when is it?
<christel> good that you have a date, not that it's bothering you
<christel> :)
<czajkowski> 7th January they had a date for me next week but I fly the folowing week so not allowed
<christel> aha
<christel> :)
<awilkins> New computer core :-)  to replace dying one :-(
<awilkins> Ah well, I get to see what fuss is with these shiny new i7 CPUses
<MarquessDeBonBon> You're replacing just one core?
<MarquessDeBonBon> I hope you have a portable fab handy.
<AlanBell> hi all
<BigRedS> Good morning!
<AlanBell> I am sat in front of my brother in law's computer and it is a bit broken
 * BigRedS looks shifty
<BigRedS> Er, I wouldn't know anything about that
<AlanBell> won't boot at all, and the drive (with raid controller) is unhappy
<AlanBell> won't create mount points in /dev apart from /dev/sda5
<AlanBell> and sda5 is just swap
<BigRedS> Surely it's booted more than not at all if you're as far as having /dev?
<AlanBell> running from live CD now
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> presumably the raid is normally /dev/sda? And swap is on some second disk?
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> fdisk -l shows the partition table
<BigRedS> I'd be tempted to run testdisk to see if it disagrees with fdisk, but by that point I've normally given up and given it to The Hardware Guy
<AlanBell> the thing will boot to a grub menu with a list of kernels but the keyboard seems unresponsive at that point
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a hardware issue, just want to get some data off
<BigRedS> oooh, odd. There's not a lot else to try to see if the issue is the keyboard or the software at that point
<AlanBell> doing a SMART test now, will see what that can do
<AlanBell> keyboard works on a live CD, but PS2 mouse does not!
<AlanBell> this thing is borked
<AlanBell> the PS2 mouse has power to it, but I am having to navigate the desktop by keyboard (lucky I do a lot of orca testing)
<BigRedS> I take it this isn't mdraid?
<BigRedS> I've seen several complaints of poor/patchy PS/2 support in 11.10
<AlanBell> 528 bad sectors :(
<BigRedS> Oooh, not a good sign
<BigRedS> ddrescue?
<AlanBell> need another TB disk or something to rescue stuff to (if anything is left)
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/765828
<AlanBell> that is the kern.log
<AlanBell> lots of media errors when trying to get partition information from sda
<BigRedS> Yeah
<Myrtti> does anyone have experience in configuring zsh?
<BigRedS> Myrtti: I have a nifty prompt with teh time and everything. But I did that a few years ago and haven't touched it since
<BigRedS> Myrtti: there's a script to get you started, I think you get prompted for it the first time you run zsh
<jutnux>  Howdy everyone.
<jacobw> good afternoon jutnux
<jutnux> Hello jacobw, how are you on this fine saturday afternoon?
<gordonjcp> afternoon all
<MooDoo> hullo
<brobostigon> helo
<jutnux> Who has their openid setup?
<jutnux> Bacon Sandwiches *drool*
<StevenR> jutnux: *sniff*. Now I want bacon sandwiches.
<jutnux> Unlucky, I have 4 of them sitting here ;)
<jutnux> Oh yes, HP open sourced WebOS
<StevenR> woo
<BigRedS> openid? People set that up themselves?
<jutnux> I set up one on symantec
<jutnux> but Google is an openid right?
<jutnux> along with linkedin
<Darael> I tend to use my Launchpad one.
<jutnux> Good idea, why didn't I think of that ._.
<jacobw> i'm sure i have an openid
<jacobw> somewhere..
<Darael> Well, it's Ubuntu SSO, these days, of course, but I still think of it as Launchpad.
<jacobw> yes
<BigRedS> Oh, I thought you meant set it up on your server as your own openID provider
<jutnux> No way, too much effort ;)
<BigRedS> I've just been peripherally involved in setting that up for someone, and it seems that every implementation of it is broken
<jutnux> I'd prefer to use something that wont go down
<ali1234> google openid isn't great
<jacobw> i'm relearning to touch type
<jutnux> Jacobw: I've been able to touch type since I was 11. Bad times ensue when you setup your fingers wrong and you end end up typing something like shwhe ueicl rf;ls
<jacobw> i've discovered that i've been doing it wrong for years, with my right fingers on 'hjkl' rather that 'jkl;'
<jacobw> s/that/than
<jutnux> I just use 3 fingers
<jutnux> can still type 121wpm
<jutnux> 3 fingers on each hand that os
<jutnux> s/os/is
<jacobw> so you don't use your little finger?
<jutnux> No
<jutnux> never
<jutnux> Have no use for it lol
<jutnux> My fingers move so swiftly as they're quite big
<BigRedS> jacobw: that's really common - I spent a while off-by-one on both hands. I don't think I really do home-row style touch typing any more, though
<BigRedS> I just do muscle-memory and inefficiency
<jacobw> its an obvious mistake
<jacobw> i blame vim
<BigRedS> haha! yeah, I'd not thought of that
<Darael> Well, to be fair, what kind of ridiculous person puts ; on the home row?
<Darael> (disclaimer:  Programmer-Dvorak typist)
<jacobw> a c programmer
<BigRedS> c, perl, php programmers?
<jacobw> yeah
<BigRedS> and anything else that ends statements with ;
<Darael> It's still not as common as the letters, though...
<jutnux> Javaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<jutnux> Pretty east to find out if you're a geek
<jutnux> see how worn the ; key is, as not many people use it correctly anyway.
<Darael> I would at least shift it one to the right, so it's not under the rest-position for the fingers.
<BigRedS> I've never been able to look at line endings the same since my sister asked why I had all these crying faces - all those lines ending );
<jacobw> hahaha
<jutnux> HAHAHHAHAHA
<jutnux> You've passed the curse on :-{
<BigRedS> haha
<Darael> Imagine what a Lisp programmer with commented code sees - winking-sad-face?  ";("
<BigRedS> I've been pondering writing a source filter since, so I can end them with :) and it'll 'fix' them to ); but I think that might just _really_ confuse me
<jutnux> Anyone here hack in java?
<BigRedS> Hah. I had a go at Java once
<jutnux> It is quite gooood
<jacobw> i hate java
<BigRedS> I needed to write about 40K before I could start solving the problem
<Darael> jutnux: Someone probably does.  There are a hundred and nineteen nicks in here, after all, and only a /few/ of them are bots.
<BigRedS> in Perl, I just need to write "#! /usr/bin/perl" and I can get on with it
<jutnux> In java, I just have to open up eclipse ;)
<Darael> On the other hand, BigRedS, some languages have tentacles, but Perl /is/ tentacles.
<BigRedS> I'm sure it has its plus points, but I'm not patient enough for it :)
<jacobw> that's why i hate java
<jutnux> I like Python too
<jutnux> When I was 9 I made a notepad app in VB.net
<jutnux> Too cool.
<BigRedS> Darael: I'm still not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that Perl always seems to do _exactly_ what I meant.
<Darael> Ew, VB.net.
<jutnux> I was 9 :-(
<BigRedS> It implies a good deal of wrongness in my head...
<Darael> BigRedS: Worrying.  Functioning DWIM is not supposed to have been implemented yet.
<BigRedS> Haha, I know! It's going to catch me out one day, I'm sure
<Darael> jutnux: Oh, fair enough.  No negative reflection on thee, then.  But still, ew, VB.net.
<jutnux> Yes, it is disgusting.
<BigRedS> is vb.net markedly different to vb?
<BigRedS> not that ever saw much of that, either
<jacobw> BigRedS: i have the same 'problem' with perl
<jutnux> Never used Perl.
<BigRedS> jacobw: it's a bit embarrasing talking about it to non-perl people, I find
<jacobw> i would have said 'normal people' but 'non-perl people' works too
<BigRedS> haha
<penguin42> BigRedS: Now you're actually supposed to use env aren't you rather than #!/usr/bin/perl ?
<BigRedS> penguin42: arguably, yeah. But I've never had /usr/bin/perl not work, though we do still have some machines without a working env...
<penguin42> ah
<Darael> Not to mention if there's more than one version of the interpreter in question installed, using env can result in the wrong one launching.
<BigRedS> well, you get that with this, too. It's just more predictable which potentially wrong one you get
<Darael> True.
<BigRedS> Ooh. They finished painting the Forth Bridge
<SuprEngr> BigRedS, not once the wives find out they haven't ;)
<jacobw> does anyone know who the interviewee on bbc news is?
<jacobw> right now
<brobostigon> jacobw: razia iqbal ?
<brobostigon> justin cartwright.
<jacobw> yes
<jacobw> thank you :)
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> jacobw: i simply pressed my red button, and it popped up all the info.
<MooDoo> well i've moved my works desktop machine from Fedora to Ubuntu....:S
<jutnux> BigRedS: Just programming and I keep seeing sad faces :'(
<penguin42> not this unhappy lemur? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16125673
<BigRedS> jutnux: haha! Sorry about that
<BigRedS> jutnux: I ended up subconciously avoiding them and getting syntax errors all over the shop :/
<Azelphur> How on earth can ifconfig return...nothing?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: if no intefaces are up
<Darael> Something took all of them including lo down?
<Azelphur> ifconfig -a shows stuff
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, use "ip link" and "ip addr", not ifconfig
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> ip > ifconfig
<MartijnVdS> iw > iwconfig
<Azelphur> guess I'll try rebooting it and see if that fixes it, weird.
<MartijnVdS> the Windows solution!
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could just ifup -a
<Azelphur> INDEED
<Azelphur> http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/12/08/mojang-and-lego-team-up-for-minecraft-lego-sets/
<Azelphur> omg...want
 * penguin42 had noticed a lot of Lego branded things this year - I think they had a book and a board game
<jutnux> Anyone seen the lego tree?
<jutnux> In Birmingham I think it is
<Laney> evening all
<MooDoo> hiya Laney
<Laney> alright MooDoo
<Laney> just got back from town
<Laney> rather busy!
<jutnux> Do anything fun Laney?
<Laney> purchased 1 christmas present
<penguin42> a penguin?
<MartijnVdS> the lindsay lohan issue?
<Laney> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/5062/75670/?ba=EmperorBevis
<christel> Laney! you made it home then? :)
<Laney> hah! eventually
<Laney> slowest... train... ever...
<christel> hehe
<Laney> did you stay much longer?
<christel> not much longer, we left on the 23.23 from waterloo
<christel> :)
<Laney> sweet
<Azelphur> lol at this site, http://www.youhavedownloaded.com
<Azelphur> It tells me that I'm using a private tracker or may not torrent at all, which is the polar opposite of the truth :P
<Azelphur> also, 192.168.1.1 seems to do a lot of piracy.
<Darael> Azelphur: Doesn't have any records on me, either.
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> Darael: it's funny because I perform multiple downloads on public trackers on a daily basis.
<mgdm> I didn't know there were that many Linux distros around!
<Azelphur> Indeed!
<Darael> Yes, I torrent a reasonable amount, too (though not as much as thee, Azelphur!).
<Azelphur> if you put 192.168.1.1 into the search box it comes up with lots of evil stuff 192.168.1.1 has done
<Azelphur> xD
<Darael> That's interesting, considering that there's usually only a router on that address.
<Azelphur> 192.168.1.2 and .3 are misbehaving too
<Darael> That, I would expect.
<Azelphur> seems like most of the block too, haha
<Darael> Ditto 192.168.{0,2}.*
<Darael> Funny, that.
<Azelphur> indeed, gotta wonder if it's catching their internal network haha
<Darael> I wonder how it's getting the IP addresses to attribute downloads to.
<Azelphur> Darael: It looks like it's hosted inside godaddy, perhaps it's picking up all the piracy that goes on inside godaddy xD
<Darael> Azelphur: Heh.
<jutnux> I want a deadmau5 mask :-(
<christel> deadmau5 <3
<jutnux> I'm more of a metal guy myself
<jutnux> but deadmau5 is good
<christel> :)
<Azelphur> does anyone know a decent place that sells nice heavily customizable laptops like this http://www.xoticpc.com/custom-gaming-laptops-notebooks-15416-laptops-ct-95_51_149.html
<Azelphur> but in the UK
<penguin42> only alienware
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> alienware charges like 2x as much as xotipc :(
<ali1234> Azelphur: most likely they only scan the most popular torrents
<Azelphur> ali1234: :P
<ali1234> so if you don't download jersey shore or whatever, then they won't see you
<Azelphur> ali1234: *shrug* I pretty much do that, haha
<ali1234> actually i'm starting to think the site is a pure scam
<ali1234> can anyone confirm that it's at all accurate?
<Azelphur> none of my friends have had any sane results off it
<gord> the way they do it is the same way they do anything else, they just connect to torrents they get from various sites/feeds and grab the ips of everyone else in the swarm - it picked up some japanese tv shows i downloaded once
<gord> which is specific enough if you ask me
<MartijnVdS> yeah, only one person in the UK downloads hentai
<gord> kaKaizoku Sentai Gokaiger actually... japanese power rangers. shut up, its great and you can't get it anywhere in the west >:(
<MartijnVdS> gord: :) Just trolling, sorry
<jutnux> Cypher out of the matrix?
<jutnux> ;)
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<jutnux> Howdy bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jutnux> My school has started using memes
<jutnux> "Bins weren't cool *baby face* until I started using them"
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-best-of-the-college-freshman-meme ?
<jutnux> Nope I'm British
<jutnux> And in a High School
<jacobw> jutnux: how does one 'start using memes'?
<MartijnVdS> how does one not use memes
<jutnux> jacobw: They started putting them on bins, on walls everything.
<jutnux> Theyre using QR codes yet we aren't allowed phones.
<MartijnVdS> in my day, we decode qr codes with a slide rule and LIKED it
<jacobw> hehe
<jacobw> i'm confused by the use of 'meme' to refer to an object
<MartijnVdS> I think he means pictures
<jacobw> memes are a concept
<MartijnVdS> like from quickmeme
<MartijnVdS> or rage comics
<jacobw> oh, i see
<MartijnVdS> http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35c6do/
<SuprEngr> A meme a day keeps the boredom away!
<MartijnVdS> use ALL the memes
<MartijnVdS> (or at least alot of memes)
<jutnux> I was a lover of memes, until I got an arrow through the knee.
<SuprEngr> I was a lover of knees, until I got an meme through the arrow.
<jutnux> ;)
<jutnux> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ5MA685ApE&feature=youtu.be
<BigRedS> I've never unsterstood the idea of obscuring the bit that the camera is focusing on
<MartijnVdS> must be a german thing
<jutnux> Must have private details or something
<jutnux> When they are looking at the PDa that is
<BigRedS> yeah, I'd have just thought that if you want to video it, you just tape over it
<MartijnVdS> black bar it
<MartijnVdS> or something
<MartijnVdS> not the entire centre of the video
<jutnux> Too much effort I guess?
<jutnux> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/italian-rock-band-release-album-recorded-using-ubuntu/
<Guest62342> Hi all.  I've just cloned my main disk to my spare... how do I now get my machine to boot from sdb instead of sda?
<Darael> Reorder the disks in the BIOS?
<Darael> Bear in mind that the disk that was formerly sdb will, IIRC, be reported as SDA when one boots from it.
<Guest62342> Thanks, I did change to HDD boot priority but it's still running off the original :-(
<Guest62342> Maybe I'll have to swap the jumpers over on the disks?
<gordonjcp> Darael: o_O
<gordonjcp> Darael: doesn't that rather depend on the order in which it detects the physical disks?
<Darael> One would think so.  I'm going off hazy memory of my last multi-disk multiboot scenario rather than logic.
<jutnux> Cashew nuts are so nice jeeeeeze
<Guest62342> I'll revisit BIOS again... just in case. If it's still booting from the Seagate I'll swap jumper to get the WD as Primary Master... I'll be back :-)
<mikeatvillage> Darael: Eventually got my machine to boot off sdb by making it the first HDD in boot priority and sda as third !
<Darael> mikeatvillage: Interesting.
<mikeatvillage> darael: more like weird :-)
<Darael> That too :)
<mikeatvillage> darael: Thanks for your help
<Darael> It wasn't particularly helpful help, I'm afraid.  However.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-12-11
<awilkins> Darn, I thought the time being 0107 was just my BIOS clock being unset.
<penguin42> nope, it's your body
<BigRedS> haha, I've just realised I spent a good deal longer waiting for stuff to happen than I thought I did
<BigRedS> I set out to reboot four machines three hours ago :/
<BigRedS> and they're only just all back up again
<awilkins> Just rebuilt my system. Apparently my troubles were down to my old gear having an intermittent / progressive fault. Annoying.
<awilkins> Looked like something in the memory controller was failing, address lines inverted (weird)
<penguin42> inverted? Oh that's an odd one
<awilkins> The zeros test in Memtest was giving 000000ff
<awilkins> And the ones was giving ffffff00
<penguin42> ouch
<awilkins> So... openjdk 6 or 7
<awilkins> Bah, probably 6
<penguin42> awilkins: I couldn't get eclipse to work at 7 for android fiddling
<awilkins> That decides it then, my work is all on 6 anyway currently
<awilkins> BigRedS, We had a Windows NT server that took about 3 hours to reboot at one place I worked
<Barbariandude> awilkins, the windows desktops for embedded systems programming at my uni take about 10 minutes to boot
<awilkins> Barbariandude, Doesn't surprise me, our work images are slow as treacle ; full disk encryption, terrible antivirus, snoopware
<awilkins> Where does NetworkManager keep it's settings?
<awilkins> Never mind, it's in /etc
<awilkins> Tell you what though, Windows needed about 10 reboots as usual
<awilkins> And I had to copy the disk controller drivers onto the install media
<awilkins> Ubuntu, of course, just installed. And works.
<MartijnVdS> with full-disk crypto even
 * AlanBell wonders about the next happy hour
<AlanBell> anyone going to suggest a venue?
<gordonjcp> or a date, for that matter
<gordonjcp> hm
<gordonjcp> looks like I might be going down to London to pick up a vanload of test equipment this week
<gordonjcp> I wonder if I can extract even more overtime from them because I'm supposed to be on holiday
<MartijnVdS> white van gordonjcp? :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/van.jpg
<MartijnVdS> off-white then
<gordonjcp> silver, with signage that looks like it's been crashed into a letraset factory
 * MartijnVdS wonders how to create that extra network outlet
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: y'know, I'm going to need to do this over two days
<MartijnVdS> Most things I can buy have 2 outlets in one.. but I just want the one
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: I suspect a B&B is going to be a lot cheaper in Farnham than in London itself, certainly enough to offset the extra 100 miles or so
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: pint?
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: that sounds like a plan :)
<czajkowski> morning all
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: what day are you coming down?
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> hi popey
<MartijnVdS> having a nice morning with the ssd ;)
<popey> yup!
<popey> rsync'ed 90GB off it, switched the SSD for 1TB of rust and rsyncing back âº
 * popey hugs rsync
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you ever try fstrim?
 * AlanBell hugs rust
<AlanBell> actually would like an ssd in my laptop, but then I would have to be more organised about space
<popey> no MartijnVdS
<popey> yeah, thats the other issue
<popey> my ssd is almost always 99% full
<popey> and when I'm building ISOs it's a bit painful
<MartijnVdS> mine's 8% full
<czajkowski> popey: what size ssd do you have ?
<AlanBell> size does matter (when it comes to SSD)
<MartijnVdS> popey: fstrim -v will send a TRIM command to tell the wear-leveling firmware that space is now "unused"
<MartijnVdS> popey: which might increase the life of the ssd
<AlanBell> I have 121GB of virtual machines
<popey> MartijnVdS: i thought thats what 'discard' was for in fstab
<MartijnVdS> popey: it is
<popey> i use that
<MartijnVdS> popey: but that makes my SSD slow when I delete things
<popey> oh
<MartijnVdS> So I put fstrim in cron
<popey> anyway, back to 1TB disk on that laptop, and installed in BIOS mode so I get 3d goodness and dual screen
<popey> rsync in byobu reporting 40Mb/s
<popey> wonder if that's going over wifi
 * MartijnVdS hates popey's wifi devices/RF environment if that's true
<popey> why does iwconfig not have an option to down an interface
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: don't know yet
<MartijnVdS> popey: because ifconfig (and "ip") do
<MartijnVdS> popey: ip link set down dev devicename_here
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, iw wlan0 link
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> iw + ip > iwconfig + ipconfig
 * popey spies a giant thunderbird sqlite db coming over the wire
<czajkowski> popey: you should offer a service where folks who buy new machines can send old and new to you so you can set them up exactly the same as their old ones with content on them
<popey> hah
<popey> or a software product that does it
<popey> (note: we have such a product in the default install now) :D
<MartijnVdS> we do?
<popey> deja-dup
<MartijnVdS> popey: yeah I set that up.. it created the target directory
<MartijnVdS> popey: and then did nothing
<popey> hah
<popey> nice
<MartijnVdS> oh it shows its icon every time I log in
<MartijnVdS> and it disappears when I click it
<czajkowski> helpful
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: yeah great reliable backup tool
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<czajkowski> see already popey is better than the tool
<MartijnVdS> so you're saying popey is not a tool? ;)
<nigelb> Trick question!
<czajkowski> I'm saying popey clearly has a better proven record than the default instalation
<czajkowski> ;)
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install popey
<MartijnVdS> E: Unable to locate package popey
<nigelb> Try pip :P
<shauno> I was about to say, seems obvious enough; just include popey in the default install
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: It's Linux, not CP/M
<nigelb> haha
<shauno> should be easy enough to package.  just stalk out the local curry house after dark (and bring a thick sack)
<nigelb> Distribution might be illegal though
<MartijnVdS> oh great, no explicit license in the source?
<czajkowski> lol
<Laney> clearly public domain
<AlanBell> not chicken dance license?
<AlanBell> http://supertunaman.com/cdl/cdl_v0-1.txt
<nigelb> haha
<nigelb> That's the perfect license.
<shauno> I'd be curious what happens if you manage to push 20,000 as a sole trader.  You break the license unless you aqcuire staff just for the dance?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: get a family member to join in
<AlanBell> or distribute the source
<MartijnVdS> Also, don't say "plinth"
<AlanBell> it is two people per 20,000, so any size of company has the potential to run out of staff
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<smittix> Morning all
<jacobw> morning
<brobostigon> morning jacobw amd smittix
<bigcalm> christel: ping
<christel> PONG
<bigcalm> yay
<bigcalm> Do you have a paypal address?
 * smittix mmm the smell of sunday roast.
<christel> yees? are you giving me money? lol
<bigcalm> I owes you a bit aye :)
<gord> bigcalm, i also have a paypal address if you want to give me money
<christel> oh, don't worry about it :)
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> christel: that's very kind of you, but I feel guilty of not paying my way
<popey> btw bigcalm - 2010 - the year we make contact
<stilia-johny> helo evrybody..
<popey> hello stilia-johny
<bigcalm> popey: aha!
<popey> its on my desk âº
<bigcalm> The film or book?
<popey> film
<stilia-johny> i wana ask... im living in essex and im new in the area..( and in uk) i have a linux user comunity in greece  is there any L.U.G in essex?? thanks a lot!
<popey> stilia-johny: i dont think there is
<popey> stilia-johny: http://lug.org.uk/ is the best place to check
<christel> stilia-johny: i know there is one in colchester, Gary here is quite involved
<stilia-johny> thenks i will check it!
<popey> LUGs in the UK are a bit dead IMO
<bigcalm> popey: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts
<bigcalm> Oops, https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/im8Xon8cdJQ
<Myrtti> aw, amazon.co.uk doesn't have a donation option?
<Myrtti> boo.
<popey> âº
<jacobw> how was this meal in the dark?
<christel> jacobw: it was interesting, i'm not sure i'd do it again but it certainly was an experience
<christel> the starter glowed in the dark, that was a bit freaky
<christel> and the surprise main consisted of blue shark, wagga beef and ostrich steak!
<christel> i can't say i've had shark before
<christel> or ostrich
<christel> :)
<AlanBell> I have had ostrich before
<AlanBell> nice on the BBQ
<christel> :D
<christel> it wasn't unpleasant
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> hello MooDoo
<christel> MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> how's everyone today?
<penguin42> passable
<brobostigon> in pain.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: at work
 * brobostigon scp's MooDoo a beer.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: 10 please
 * brobostigon scp's MooDoo the whole crate.
<MooDoo> yay
<carl_> #derbyjs
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
<daubers> Afternoon
<brobostigon> afternoonings daubers
<christel> daubers :)
<daubers> Another day, another house
<Andres-kain> mervyn-smith?
<daubers> hmm?
<Andres-kain> sorry an estate agent.
<daubers> oh, ok :)
<Andres-kain> would ubuntu work on btfrs? instead of ext4?
<jutnux> Yay for 3g
<directhex> is butterfs more than a toy yet?
<directhex> e.g. can it fsck?
<funkyHat> I believe it now has live scrubbing, so yes
<funkyHat> And debian testing can install on btrfs, so I see no reason why a new enough ubuntu couldn't either
<penguin42> funkyHat: What do you mean by live scrubbing?
<funkyHat> penguin42: it's a file system check that can run safely while the FS is mounted
<penguin42> funkyHat: What about fixing issues that stop it being mounted in the 1st place?
<funkyHat> penguin42: good question â¢)
<penguin42> funkyHat: Or where you want to check it after something bad happened to the machine
<funkyHat> I got burnt a little by using btrfs on my netbook and having that happened, so I gave up on it
<funkyHat> My recollection is that there is now a fsck for it, but I might be remembering wrong
<funkyHat> Hm, google seems to suggest the fsck is still not finalised
<funkyHat> https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/
<Nafallo> I'm running on btrfs right now, so yes.
<Nafallo> I would only recommend it for playing with. not for productional use.
<BigRedS> I keep trying to find a situation where I'm happy to 'play with' a filesystem
<penguin42> BigRedS: VMs or build boxes that you are OK to lose; or someone elses data :-)
<BigRedS> That's one of the things where I'm _incredibly_ grateful to the testers. It's not something I could bring myself to test
<BigRedS> penguin42: yeah, but I always end up with stuff that I'd rather not lose on them
<penguin42> nod
<BigRedS> I suppose I could store my git stuff on it, since it all ends up remote as soon as I've done anything useful
<BigRedS> but even ~/bin, which is nominally all either git or svn, has a bunch of code I've not got round to checking in...
<Nafallo> well, I haven't lost data. but I've been saved by apt-btrfs-snapshot already :-)
<BigRedS> at the risk of provoking a flamewar, what does btrfs do that xfs doesn't? I've actually never managed to research it since I decided XFS is awesome
<BigRedS> Oh, that snapshotting looks rather more nifty
<dwatkins> XFS is pretty good, but I'm biased as I used to work for SGI.
<Nafallo> it does a lot more than XFS.
<dwatkins> XFS has a lot of tools for recovering data, loads of large-volume stuff too
<Nafallo> btrfs have stuff to do simple arrays directly in the file-system, amongst other thing.
<Nafallo> things even
<Nafallo> just check out some feature ist somewhere. their homepage or wikipeida maybe.
<jutnux> 3g is such a lifesaver.
 * Nafallo prefers HSDPA+
<jutnux> That's what i meant.
<jutnux> Android <3
<jutnux> Ubuntu mobile should be good when it comes out though
<BigRedS> I don't see the point in Ubuntu mobile, personally
<BigRedS> Unless it's basically Android with a UI designed in some other way than asking "Soooo, what's iOS doing?"
<jutnux> Well it's Ubuntu branching out
<jutnux> Have you seen some mock ups which the community has done?
<BigRedS> yeah, but that's just a picture
<penguin42> it'll be quite a bit of work to get the battery/CPU/RAM down to mobile levels
<penguin42> battery particularly
<BigRedS> If, underneath, it's a desktop OS on a phone, then it's going to get the same reception as maemo did
<BigRedS> which isn't *bad*, it's just that nobody particularly seems to want it
<jutnux> Meh
<BigRedS> If it could be the Linux I know and love, but with a VM hacked into it so I can still run Android apps, *that* would be good
<jutnux> Yes
<penguin42> yeh it would be interesting to be able to use some Ubuntu apps and some Android ones - e.g. I want the Android Google Maps
<BigRedS> But if it's just desktop Linux on a small screen, then that'd be awesome until I tried to check my mail
<penguin42> BigRedS: Stuff designed for Unity might work well - not sure what you would use for mail; mind you I've been known to ssh to my mail server and use mutt from my phone; but I couldn't class that as easy - especially without a keyboard :-)
<jutnux> Anyone ever used an archos tablet?
<jacobw> the no keyboard thing is still a problem for me :|
<jutnux> Has anyone seen that Raspberry PI thing?
<jutnux> Â£20 pc?
<Myrtti> this Google+ Secret Santa thing sound nice, I hope it gets more momentum
<jutnux> Myritti: What is it?
<penguin42> jutnux: What I find interesting is the stuff falling off the bottom of the Android old phones; Argos have an Android phone for Â£39 that's listed in Cyanogen
<penguin42> jutnux: Admittedly it is pink, but still
<jutnux> Orly
<jutnux> Bit of spray paint, problem solved
<Myrtti> jutnux: https://plus.google.com/113269791493257695508/posts
<AlanBell> or learn to love pink
<jutnux> I'm comfortable with my sexuality so pink would be fine.
<Myrtti> ah right, it's my pink hilight that is going off
<AlanBell> anyone know if there is a solution to bad ram that doesn't involve throwing it away?
<penguin42> AlanBell: It depends how bad it is
<penguin42> AlanBell: If it's one or two bad locations you can tell the kernel to avoid that bit
<AlanBell> some red bits in memtest86
<penguin42> AlanBell: However, the best solution is to throw it away
<daubers> AlanBell: Turn it into some modern art?
<penguin42> AlanBell: If it's always the same location and it's not an inconvenient location then I think you can tell it to avoid it
 * AlanBell hunts in the box of bits for another stick that will fit
<Andres-kain> was btfrs better for solid state aka mobile phones hence meego and beefy miracle?
<AlanBell> Andres-kain: don't think so, jffs is better for solid state, but I don't think btrfs is optimised that way
<Andres-kain> thanks alanbell
 * AlanBell now has double the ram in the dev/test box
<penguin42> AlanBell: I thought btrfs had some ssd specific modes
<Nafallo> AlanBell: wrong. it does have optimisations for SSDs
<AlanBell> oh, I like being wrong :)
<Nafallo> [    3.349503] Btrfs detected SSD devices, enabling SSD mode
<AlanBell> ahh, ok, it does stuff to play nice with wear leveling on SSD
<AlanBell> I was thinking about jffs2 which does nand flash support
 * penguin42 is curious how it detects ssds
<Nafallo> penguin42: use the source, luke ;-)
<penguin42> Nafallo: !fs_info->fs_devices->rotating
<christel> Nafallo: oh, did you see that scandi kitchen was looking for swedish people for a tv show?
<Nafallo> christel: nope
<Nafallo> christel: link?
<christel> i'll drop you the link in a second!
<christel> (i need to dig it out of my email)
<Nafallo> hold you to it :-)
<penguin42> queue_flag_set_unlocked(QUEUE_FLAG_NONROT, mq->queue); in mmc/card/queue.c, and similar oddly in nbd and a few others
<christel> http://z6.co.uk/uq Nafallo
<Nafallo> christel: hah. I wouldn't have much good to say about it I'm afraid.
<christel> aww
<christel> see, i have a lot to say about the swedes..
<christel> :P
<BigRedS> Anyone done much with Ubuntu on EC2? I'm doing gluster wrong, and I'm wondering if anyone's found what constitutes 'right'
<BigRedS> of course, sunday evening's probably not the best time to ask :)
<jutnux> I've only started using workspaces lately
<jutnux> So useful
<aquarius> I keep meaning to get back into using them :)
<AlanBell> I use them a lot less now that the cube is gone
<AlanBell> yes, I know I can enable the cube, but I try to keep the desktop as vanilla as possible
<jutnux> They're so useful
<jutnux> Dual monitors with 4 workspaces is like having 8 monitors
<jutnux> so useful
<jutnux> Had to recheck my maths there
<jutnux> If I failed that simple multiplication I would have to self-immolate.
<AlanBell> yeah they are great
<AlanBell> had to use windows for a bit a couple of days ago, was really constraining not having the option of flipping to another workspace
<AlanBell> I find with Unity I just use the top two workspaces, I never go down to the other two
<jutnux> I'm using 3 at the minute.
<jutnux> Do you work for canonical now?
<AlanBell> and I mostly use top left, I just put single apps on the other workspaces
<AlanBell> no, I don't work for canonical
<AlanBell> with the cube there was no "primary" workspace, all sides of the cube are equal. Not quite the same with the wall
<MartijnVdS> popey: what's the name of your pet project again? the VNC servery/remote helpy thing
<jutnux> Ah.
<jutnux> I don't think I'd ever go back to Windows.
<jutnux> I run it in a VM for certain apps but that is all.
<AlanBell> this bottle of wine appears to be empty :(
<jutnux> I presume you have more? ;)
<jutnux> Are you for/against unity Alan?
<smittix> Evening
<smittix> Bah X-Factor has taken over the TV again
<czajkowski> aloha
 * brobostigon is watching robert peston on bbc.
<jutnux> X-Factor +o(
<jutnux> Anyone watch that Mark Zuckerberg documentary?
<brobostigon> smittix: miles more interesting, and useful than that prog you mentioned.
<DJones> smittix: I'm sure I heard a rumour that the winners song would be a cover version of something by Alvin & the Chipmonks to give the winner some "street cred"
<smittix> HEH
<smittix> brobostigon: Will have a look. Ive been banished upstairs
<jutnux> XFactor is beyond a joke now though
<brobostigon> smittix: ok.
<smittix> jutnux: Indeed it is.
<smittix> 2 hours of the crap tonight.
<jutnux> I am in my room and all I see is constant updates via facebook.
<smittix> Anyone watched Walking Dead?
<dwatkins> yeah
<jutnux> Yes
<jutnux> It was quite good
<jutnux> A bit weird how there was magically an opening into the tank when the zombies were coming to get him though.
<AlanBell> jutnux: I am kind of OK about unity, just annoyed that the design team constantly break accessibility when trying to make things pretty
<jutnux> AlanBell: I think it has increased my work flow to be honest, but then again I am a keyboard power user.
<jutnux> The unity bar rarely ever comes out
<smittix> Just watched the last one of the second series last night
<AlanBell> I set my unity launcher to never hide, popping in and out was infuriating
<AlanBell> and I don't use the unity alt-tab switcher, might do if they stop it raising all windows of an application you switch to
<jutnux>  Yeah that is kind of annoying
<jutnux> I have my windows evenly spread out over multiple workspaces so it's all good.
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I thought I was good at crosswords, then just tried a cryptic
<Laney> back to square one
<jutnux> Sudoko <333
<jutnux> s/Sudoko/Sudoku
<MartijnVdS> sudo ku
<jutnux> MartijnVdS: I see what you did there.
<popey> MartijnVdS: trublrt
<popey> er
<popey> trublr
<MartijnVdS> popey: thanks! :)
<jutnux> popey: is it good?
<popey> its unfinished âº
<jutnux> It looks amazing from what I've seen.
<jutnux> Who developed it? :-)
<popey> I'll finish it at some point
<jutnux> OH
<popey> I specced it up and employed someone to write the actual code
<jutnux> Amazing job!
<jutnux> What's it coded in?
<popey> clients can be coded in anything you like
<popey> server is mostly done using shell scripts and a bit of php
<MartijnVdS> so that's what 'apt-get install popey' does (that, and backups)
<popey> heh
<jutnux> Ah nice.
<jutnux> Holy hell my twitter feed is being spammed with x-factor.
<BigRedS> Mine always gets spammed with people outraged at people talking about x-factor
<dwatkins> I tend to ignore twitter mostly, I just add people's feeds to Google Reader if I'm that interested in what they have to say
<aquarius> popey, is trublr at the point where I can point real people at it yet? :)
<popey> no
<popey> it will be shortly
<aquarius> thought not :P
<popey> been kinda busy with a new job
<aquarius> that sounds like a reasonable reason
<aquarius> man, I love this laptop to bits.
<aquarius> Right, what's the best way to watch upnp video on Ubuntu?
<aquarius> I don't want to use a full-screen client like xbmc
<aquarius> there's the totem coherence plugin, but that's a bit shonky -- it's all "install a plugin in these folders" rather than something packaged.
<aquarius> anyone got any better alternatives?
<aquarius> also: it is 9.48 and I am unplugging the laptop for a battery life test.
<popey> upnp video?
<popey> you mean browse the network for video?
<aquarius> as in, video being served by a UPnP server (like rygel or mediatomb)
<aquarius> so I can browse the list and play a video
<AlanBell> vlc probably does that
<aquarius> yeah, I was thinking about vlc... but then it'll compete with totem to play just ordinary videos :)
<aquarius> and I don't like vlc because it looks horrid and has weird keybindings
<aquarius> I wonder why two-finger-scrolling isn't default in Ubuntu?
<aquarius> is it because it doesn't reliably work on some hardware?
<AlanBell> tell the design team it is default on mac and it will get in for precise
<daubers> heh
<daubers> are we back to that state of affairs?
<aquarius> I suspect it's a hardware thing
<aquarius> edge scrolling works on every touchpad everywhere
<daubers> </genericism>
<daubers> I have a touchpad it doesn't work on
<aquarius> two-finger scrolling requires a touchpad that can do multitouch and a driver that can do multitouch on that pad, which is less common than we might home for
<aquarius> daubers, does it work in Windows? (I meant "for touchpads which have any concept of scrolling", I think)
<daubers> aquarius: No, it doesn't work on windows :) It's a very old laptop
<aquarius> daubers, right, yeah, so "edge scrolling works everywhere where there's some scrolling *at all*" :)
<daubers> :)
<daubers> I do have a multitouch touchpad, but haven't really seen any benefit from it
<daubers> On this machine anyway
<jutnux> Doomsday
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dwatkins> nn brobostigon
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-03
<krabador> hi people, i need help to install nvidia-173 on ubuntu 12.10
<diplo> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<BigRedS> morning!
<czajkowski> BigRedS: hey hows things?
<mungojerry> does anyone use ubuntu one on android for uploading pictures they take? seems to disable itself a lot.
<czajkowski> mungojerry: I do
<mungojerry> do you have that problem often?
<czajkowski> not had an isue tbh.
<mungojerry> :(
<czajkowski> I get the odd fail image but then I retry an it's fine
<mungojerry> every time i check, it asked me to login
<czajkowski> usually due to me forgetting I've left a wifi location and not have my mobile data on
<czajkowski> mungojerry: ahh that's an issue I used to have one but couldnt replicate it to log the bug
<czajkowski> the nice folks in #ubuntuone will help though
<mungojerry> thx will give them a try later
<popey> mungojerry, u1 files crashes regularly for me
<popey> but I suspect it's not the same issue as you, given I'm running it on iOS
<JamesTait> Good morning, Angels! :-D
<christel> morning <3
<christel> czajkowski: hows hampshire treating you
<czajkowski> christel: back in london
<christel> !
<czajkowski> hoping to head down later if I feel human, have awful head cold
<christel> aww
<czajkowski> we got back late last night from guildford
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<jacobw2> morning ubunteros
<BigRedS> czajkowski: good, bit busy especiallyt for this time of morning. you?
<czajkowski> BigRedS: busy alright, only me on for my tz atm so it's interesting :)
<czajkowski> jacobw2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/272826
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 272826 in Ubuntu Website ""Ubuntero" inappropriate for female contributors" [Medium,Fix released]
<czajkowski> BigRedS: how goes the move?
<czajkowski> christel: never fear I'll be down soon! then you won't be able to get rid of me
<czajkowski> christel: shall be gone from the 12th till end of december though :)
<BigRedS> czajkowski: I think
<BigRedS> I've a flat for a few months from about february
<czajkowski> cool
<christel> czajkowski: tsK! we should meet up before then
<czajkowski> definately
<jacobw2> BigRedS: \o/
<BigRedS> yeah, should be good
<bigcalm> Zort
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<dwatkins> I hope we were able to help out the person wanting to install MineTest yesterday
<brobostigon> hiya dwatkins
<brobostigon> dwatkins: no sure, i was trying to get the server end working properly, and didnt properly. so went to bed, and tackling it again as we speak.
<davmor2> Morning all
<p> nick PeteB
<selinuxium> morning all   o/
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<selinuxium> Hey BigRedS! You back in metro central?
<bigcalm> Morning slackers :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: why are you a slacker
<selinuxium> bigcalm, I think you just admitted to joining in...
<selinuxium> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Good news! Wifey's car just passed MoT with nothing wrong! We were expecting a big bill... Â£39 is fine and dandy by me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all btw
<selinuxium> Good morning TheOpenSourcerer
<diplo> I had the same luck with mine TheOpenSourcerer
<wayne__> hi all, anybody here help me with a problem with mythtv?
<diplo> Was expecting a huge bill and they said it passed, my response was 'really?'
<BigRedS> selinuxium: nah, back in marchish I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> Who watched England trounce the All Blacks on Saturday? What a fantastic game.
<czajkowski> wayne__: just ask and if folks cna help they will
<wayne__> cheers
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Sadly I missed it.. But was having a lovely day with my daughter...
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Went to Farnham RFC this Sat to watch the big match.
<selinuxium> I was at Twickenham for the SA game#
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nice.
<wayne__> Anybody seen this error message in mythtv "Cold not connect to the master backend server, Is it running? Is the ip address set for it in myth-setup correct?"
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Corporate box, Champagne breakfast... Free Guinness all day...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow. That's great selinuxium - work?
<popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
<selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, yup... Well. a supplier helping to reward our loyalty..
<TheOpenSourcerer> How was your glazed pork?
<directhex> wayne__, it's a pretty common error in myth
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: selinuxium https://twitter.com/RugBizNetwork
<wayne__> directhex: any clues on how i sort it? the back & front end are on the same box
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Thanks for that. Duly followed.
<selinuxium> czajkowski, likewise
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wish I'd have had a bet on England. Odds were 16:1 before the game. (But I don't really gamble so it would have been unlikely for me to bet at all)
<selinuxium> Anybody here use munin?
<dwatkins> selinuxium: me
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, pretty good, still some left over for sarnies
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<selinuxium> dwatkins, when you do a ps aux|grep munin do you only see the munin-node
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have chicken Jalfrezi for lunch
<selinuxium> The lunch of champions!
<dwatkins> selinuxium: yeah, the other processes run via cron, I think
<bigcalm> davmor2: selinuxium: I'm as much a slacker as the next irc user ;)
<dwatkins> I'm a complete slacker today, thanks to having the week off and having an annoying cold still.
<brianb> hi having problems with 12.10 live cd will boot but crashes with all lines on screen is there any work round with boot commands?
<dwatkins> What kind of graphics card do you have in the machine, brianb?
<brianb> its a old laptop
<brianb> 12.04 works ok
<dwatkins> perhaps the gfx card is no longer supported, is it on the hardware compatability list?
<brianb> i dont know
<brianb> is there any boot commands i can try
<dwatkins> I'm not sure, did you try the alternative CD as well? That has additional drivers.
<brianb> what is the alternative cd?
<dwatkins> oh, I appear to have mis-typed - that disc has been discontinued, sorry
<brianb> so does 12.1 contain limited drivers then?
<dwatkins> is there an option to boot into text mode?
<dwatkins> then at least you can find out (with 'lspci' or 'lspci -v') what kind of graphics card you have.
<brianb> i have 12.1 DVD from linux format and ubuntu users
<brianb> there is none on the dvd supplied by ubuntu users
<brianb> but can edit the boot line on the linux format version of ubuntu 12.1
<AlanBell> what laptop?
<dwatkins> I assume that's 12.10, not that there's any mathematical difference ;)
<davmor2> dwatkins: the live and alternate cds both contain the same drivers.
<dwatkins> davmor2: ah ok, I was wrong to begin with
<brianb> its may old laptop that we lookes at the other night re the adobe flash player AlanBell
<dwatkins> https://help.ubuntu.com/12.10/installation-guide/i386/hardware-supported.html might help, but we'd probably need to know the model of laptop and/or card
<AlanBell> ok, so that is the one with the S3 unichrome graphics
<brianb> yes Alan
<AlanBell> so 12.10 is going to want it to do 3d compositing
<AlanBell> 12.04 with unity 2d might have worked fine, but in 12.10 it will probably expose all the bugs
<brianb> ok so 12.04 will be the last ubuntu version that will work with this old laptop then
<AlanBell> could be
<AlanBell> that means it will get updates until 2017
<brianb> so is there a major difference between version 12.04 & 12.1?
<brianb> sorry 12.1
<directhex> 12.10
<AlanBell> .10 being October, .04 being April
<AlanBell> hardly any difference at all between 12.04 and 12.10
<bigcalm> More bugs? ;)
<AlanBell> fewer unity bugs
<brianb> i will try ubuntu 12.1 on a more modern laptop with a dual core i5 and HD display
<directhex> 12.10 supports UEFI secure boot, and has a newer infrastructure for online accounts. those are the big ones i noticed
<brianb> that laptop is 2 years old
<brianb> so that should rule out memory and the graphics capabilities
<dw4tkins> What model is it, brianb?
<brianb> its a MSI laptop
<dw4tkins> do you have the exact model number?
<brianb> got a large dsplay
<brianb> CR 720
<brianb> model nr ms-1736
<selinuxium> Hmmm... just found an old Jaunty install... You can't do a do-release-upgrade from Jaunty to Lucid..
<selinuxium> What would the best way forward be?
<brianb> the sound will be an issue on this laptop
<dw4tkins> http://www.msiwhitebook.com/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1736-ID1 - doesn't seem to have any particularly outlandish hardware
<AlanBell> selinuxium: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<selinuxium> Cheeers AlanBell
<brianb> so in all accounts 12.1 should work on this msi laptop\?
<dw4tkins> brianb: without knowing the specific details of the chip used in the graphics card, I can't really say
<dw4tkins> I guess if you can find out what it has and check the hardware compatability list for 12.04 and 12.10, you might know more
<brianb> ok fair enough i will try 12.1 in a live mode and see if i can get it to work
<AlanBell> brianb: 12.10 will work just fine on that core i5 laptop
<AlanBell> it has intel graphics which just work
<brianb> ok thanks
<selinuxium> AlanBell, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades/Jaunty doesn't work and also, doesn't look right..
<AlanBell> selinuxium: clean install of Raring? (or Quantal if not feeling brave)
<selinuxium> AlanBell, sorry... what I am getting at is the instructions say to use a jaunty sources.list doing so would change nothing... or am I completely off track?
<AlanBell> erm, I think the instructions are right, changing it to old-releases but leaving it pointing to Jaunty, then doing the upgrade which will change them
<selinuxium> nope... it still tries to change the jaunty to lucid...
<AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/34430/can-i-skip-over-releases/135028#135028 you did that bit?
<AlanBell> tweaking the meta-release file?
<AlanBell> making a hacked downloadable meta-release file
<AlanBell> you don't have to do that on your local host, you could point it at the file somewhere else
<selinuxium> AlanBell, Suffering with blindness it seems...
<selinuxium> AlanBell, all sorted and learnt a little more about how apt works.. :)
<brianb> Alan Ball i understand that according to the ubuntu user that ubuntu tv seeks volunteers
<bigcalm> popey: any worries that Twitter will accuse you of running a fake-pope account? ;)
<brianb> lol
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I think popey has a stronger claim to reality
<popey> hah
<bigcalm> AlanBell: Haha
<popey> well i missed a trick given my company name is pontifex
<popey> should have registered that twitter account
<AlanBell> yeah, I was surprised you didn't have it
<brianb> all paths and links lead to the Vatican
<davmor2> AlanBell: put the computer down move away from the keyboard slowly, Don't forget I'm not down south now to fix your messes ;)
<popey> never needed it
<AlanBell> I am sure you could have traded it for a couple of michelangelos
<brianb> AlanBell did you see my comment re the ubuntu tv?
<AlanBell> !tab | brianb
<lubotu3> brianb: You can use your <tab> key for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
<AlanBell> nope :)
<AlanBell> they probably are looking for volunteers, dunno what for though
<brianb> the three areas quoted are 1 re-creating the TV user interface using Nux toolkit
<brianb> 2 integrating Myth TV back end into the TV UI
<directhex> another new toolkit!
<AlanBell> oh, they settled on mythtv now, interesting
<brianb> 3. Researching and finalizing the hardware and acceleration of GStreamer video sinks for NVidia, Intel and AMD graphics cards
<AlanBell> why on earth would they want to support all those?
<brianb> thats according to the artical in the latest ubuntu user
<brianb> http://www.doadjustyourset.com/
<directhex> they should clearly outsource their gstreamer hacking to a company with expertise in it
<brianb> the link is for more info on the ununtu tv project
<AlanBell> does this mean canonical have given up on it as a commercial project pitched to OEMs?
<popey> no
<brianb> so is the TV  irc channel related to the community work they are talking about?
<popey> yes
<davmor2> popey: can you answer a question using more than one word?
<popey> depends
<AlanBell> brianb: I kind of stopped following that project some time ago, I knew they were rewriting some unity 2d bits in 3d (that is the NUX stuff)
<AlanBell> I was expecting it to end up on an ARM platform with a pandaboard as reference hardware or something
<brianb> only allowed 140 chr per tweet to the hash tag popey at Vatican
<davmor2> popey: Classy answer :)
<brianb> so what direction is ubuntu TV going in?
<popey> AlanBell, it makes more sense to make it possible to run it on stuff people actually have
<brianb> it would seem that ubuntu TV is try to go down the road of apple TV etc from what i understand from the article
<AlanBell> it does, I think it is a good idea, it just surprises me
<popey> much easier to hack on a desktop/laptop where we know the core works
<einonm> I've not followed the ubuntuTV project that closely, but they do seem to suffer from a lack of a hardware platform
<popey> we have other plans for arm (e.g. n7)
<popey> so it's not like arm dev is unloved
<AlanBell> yeah, I was just expecting TV to be built towards a settop box or internal board in a telly, at the expense of everything else
<popey> but we don't have anything to put _in_ that device yet
<AlanBell> if it is a generic mythtv front end then that is quite interesting
<einonm> AlanBell: are there actually any HW engineers on the team to do that?
<popey> we don't make hardware
<einonm> popey: yes, but in the TV world, you're up against others with dedicated hardware, which is cheaper and more suited to the task. If you're going to enter that market, you have to play by the rules
<einonm> ..or team up with someone that does
<popey> i didn't say we wouldn't
<popey> just that we don't make the hardware
<popey> that's not new news :)
<einonm> is there any public knowledge about who you're teaming up with, if anyone? :o)
<brianb> what would be good is to have an open source version like the BBC iplayer which allows various content to be accessed over the net in a format that allows to catch up but Digital Rights issues could be a problem
<brianb> well it wont be apple for sure
<brianb> what about Sony?
<einonm> brianb: It's a nice idea, but I think there doesn't exist any content owners who would give up free access to the content.
<einonm> Sony own their own content, hardware and distro channels.
<einonm> same as sky
<brianb> not without having some payperview
<popey> einonm, not that I know of
<brianb> well if you take the BBC radio player app - it does allow you to select commerical as well as BBC radio content
<einonm> popey: Fair enough. its not the sort of info that gets shared easily, even if there were some
<popey> indeed
<dwatkins> is the iPlayer app open source?
<AlanBell> nope
<dwatkins> didn't think so
<brianb> no
<brianb> its brilliant technology
<brianb> i watch all my tv viewing on the iplayer app on my apple tablet
<mungojerry> anyone try using 40d?
<brianb> its so slective
<mungojerry> wife says that some shows don't work at all
<mungojerry> watch 7 adverts then no programme e.g. freshmeat series 2
<dwatkins> my only issue with iPlayer is that a week is sometimes not long enough to watch a show, other than that it's superb.
<brianb> i can select what i want to watch and when up to seven days also can now download for up to a month
<dwatkins> ah ok, that at least makes the retention time less of an issue, brianb
<brianb> that download feature is avaible on the iplayer app on the apple
<brianb> i dont know if its available on the pc version
<directhex> i await tvii, personally
<dwatkins> brianb: it is, my mum uses it as they have a slow internet connection
<directhex> the wiiu's software is hopelessly unfinished, but tvii has enormous promise
<brianb> the BBC iplayer is one of the best things the BBC has developed in the last 20 years
<popey> mungojerry, i have seen that happen too, when I was in copenhagen
<mungojerry> popey, i've tried on multiple machines
<brianb> the itv and CH4 player is not so good
<popey> mungojerry, a friend of mine works for the company and said it is a known issue depending on which content delivery network the load balancer sends you to
<mungojerry> :(
<mungojerry> the adverts always work, strange that
<popey> they come from a different network
<mungojerry> series 1 always works too
<mungojerry> so it's nothign client side
<mungojerry> i should try on my work pc
<mgdm> anyone played with a YouView yet, out of interest?
<popey> yup, as I said, backend issue
<mungojerry> shame there's nothing like iplayer_dl for 4od
<popey> yeah, its a shame the guy who made get_iplayer ripped out all the itv and 4od stuff
<brianb> lol
<mungojerry> maybe they will all work after chrimstas
<mungojerry> when everyone has bought dvds
<einonm> mdgm: YouView is basically freeview with a backwards EPG for the iplayer stuff.
<popey> people _buy_ dvds?
<mungojerry> what's the other option?
<directhex> paupers without 3d blu-rays do
<mgdm> einonm: I know exactly what it is, I helped write an app for it
<directhex> peasants.
 * AlanBell sticks to VHS
<einonm> mgdm: cool :)
<directhex> youview smells like a rebadged bt vision
<popey> i adopted a policy from a friend
<mungojerry> no physical media inhouse?
<popey> "If I'm not going to watch this DVD more than 3 times in my life, I won't buy it"
<directhex> and bt vision was pointless since it doesn't help with bad freeview reception issues
<popey> I rarely buy them anymore
<mgdm> directhex: quite the opposite; BT Vision are taking on YouView instead of their old platform
<mungojerry> i adopted another policy : keep wife happy, have a happy household
<directhex> mgdm, can i use youview over pure iptv, with no antenna plugged in?
<mgdm> No
<mungojerry> i never watch a film more than once, except for french ones and star wars and indiana jones
<mgdm> well, you *can*, but all you'll get is the catchup players
<mungojerry> hence i don't buy the cds
<directhex> then i don't see the point
<mungojerry> dvd
<daubers> popey: I buy DVD's instead of going to the cinema for most things
<mungojerry> +1
<daubers> (Normally when they're <Â£5)
<directhex> i already have video on demand, via lovefilm or the xbox and playstation video stores
<directhex> i already have poor freeview reception
<directhex> and i can even do recording if i plug na usb disk into my tv
<directhex> so youview gains me nothing
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves the iPlayer built into his Samsung TV. Watched "The Killing 5 & 6" last night.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, yeah, we use that all the time..... but i'm excited for tvii
<popey> yeah, we use iplayer on the virgin box all the time
<popey> and ipad in bed
<brianb> i can see eventually the normal method of tv delivery of off-air reception using tv transmission system becoming a thing of the past with high speed internet access and 4 or 5G mobile phones
<brianb> TV has become more portable with tablets and phones
<TheOpenSourcerer> Considering we are still on crappy old ADSL 2 (~3.5Mb) iPlayer works amazingly well. Two hours last night, no buffering whatsoever. (Not in HD though).
<directhex> i wish streaming services did really really HD HD.
<directhex> e.g. iPlayer HD is super low bitrate
<directhex> compared to optical media
<directhex> i hate macroblocking
<einonm> brianb: the difference between IPTV and broadcast is that the current broadcast methods are extremely reliable, and IPTV is not as good. So I don't see cable/terrestrial/satellite TV going just yet
<brianb> the only possible proble is if tthe isp's adopt a 2-tire internet making users like the BBC pay to stream their content and if the dont pay they will slow down the delivery
<brianb> granted but the cost to broadcasters to maintane a terrestrial are high compared to IPTV
<directhex> the precious airwaves could be used for more overpriced mobile internet packages!
<brianb> im talking in about 20 years time
<einonm> ..but they control the delivery system, and can charge what they like for it. Not so with the internet
<brianb> well there is talk about a 5G network using existing TV frequencies that will mean all freeview and HD version changing frequency and another retuning if and when 5G gets rolled out
<popey> also, i want all my systems to have remotes like my xbmc one ripped from a boxee
<popey> :(
<davmor2> popey: you should see the one that came with one of tescos tv's
<brianb> the ISP control the flow of the internet so they can charge whatever they like
<czajkowski> does anyone remember the name of the person who did the presentation at UDS about the bug stats?
<einonm> ..but ISPs  don't own content. They can't profit from buying content from others.
<davmor2> popey: it doesn't show the remote but the description gives a clue http://www.tesco.com/direct/technika-22-212i-22-inch-widescreen-hd-ready-smart-lcd-tv-dvd-combi-with-freeview/213-9399.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=213-9399
<brianb> if BT wanted to say push there IPTV then they only have to create a 2-tier system imposing a Charge on the BBC that could have a major impact for the iplayer
<brianb> content is owned by the broadcasters
<popey> i just repeatedly failed to type qwerty successfully :S
<directhex> net neutrality!
<brianb> thats the issue
<einonm> ...broadcasters that already have their own delivery systems, like sky. They would just price their offering cheaper.
<brianb> there delivery system is via satellite
<einonm> mind you, I think whatever myspace is called there days is giving IPTV only delivery a good go.
<einonm> there = these
<brianb> and what happened to the satellite version of the internet?
<mgdm> it's still there, it's just expensive and latent
<directhex> satellite internet works fine*
<directhex> (* high bandwidth, high latency, high cost)
<brianb> anyway im sure the government with eventual have their say on the internet
<directhex> it's pretty much one way, so you send data over dialup, and receive it over satellite, both of which are high latency links
<diplo> My dad up until recently had to send his drawings to navy ships out at sea, they use a type of Satelite system but dad said it was really slow
<brianb> and very costly i bet they charge on bandwith uasge
<AlanBell> well there is a big difference between latency and speed
<brianb> thousands of pounds per kb
<einonm> I would guess that navy ships would use their own military satellites for that sort of thing?
<diplo> I think they preffered faxes at the time, was a few years ago I guess
<diplo> einonm: Yeah they do, still not fast though
<brianb> its very costly
<brianb> and slow
<brianb> thats why they are going back to HF comms using a digital version
<shauno> sats are a whole lot cheaper than you'd think.  but a whole lot more expensive than we're used to.  20USD/MB isn't unreasonable, and then gets cheaper the more you commit to
<brianb> not for the navy
<directhex> AlanBell, indeed. can't beat the bandwidth of a lorry filled with mag tapes!
<brianb> lol
<brianb> can you still get VHS tapes?
<einonm> directhex: not even by IP over carrier pigeons? :)
<brianb> well in 5 years time we have roll up TV screens, flexable electronics made from graphine transistors and chips
<directhex> einonm, oh, that's something someone tested once
<einonm> yes, didn't the pigeons win?
<directhex> http://hothardware.com/News/Homing-Pigeon-Faster-Than-Internet-in-Data-Transfer/
<brianb> well they could not deciper that WW2 message from the remains of the carrier pigeon
<mungojerry> there's a reason for that
<mungojerry> without the one-time pad, it's meaningless
<einonm> wow, faster and more secure - homing pigeons FTW
<brianb> i think they are looking for another Alen turning
<brianb> so all the super computer at there disposal and they could not crack that message
<mungojerry> well it's the same as me agreeing with you and you only what the message "chips egg walrus monkey" means
<einonm> How much does bird seed cost compared to BT line rental these days?
<shauno> I'm not sure cost is the only consideration.  seed is also vendor agnostic, reducing single points of failure
<brianb> well its probably a magical mystery   tour - i am the walrus
<einonm> plus contention on the medium might get a bit messy
<brianb> given that bird seed is quite cheap and each type of seed has different kernel shapes then the data encryption per seed husk kernel would yeild a high rate
<brianb> hence reducing single point failure due to high redundancy
<brianb> anyway what does ubuntu 13.04 have to offer
<brianb> see that some stuff is going to be secret
<popey> well, one less thing is secret now :) http://voices.canonical.com/jussi.pakkanen/2012/12/03/introducing-libcolumbus-a-fast-online-approximate-matching-library/
<brianb> whats that popey?
<popey> its a blog post
<brianb> i cant open it at present
<brianb> so what the community views on this secrecy ny ubuntu?
<brianb> by...
<brianb> is ubuntu trying to become another apple or MS?
<popey> what secrecy are you talking about?
<brianb> according to an article only certain developers of the ubuntu community will be privy to some new projects
<popey> thats nothing new
<brianb> as it always been like that then?
<popey> its the same for many projects in many companies
<popey> developers do some work to prove a concept is sound, or rough out a basic app/library, then announce it
<popey> its private till it's announced
<brianb> isee
<popey> what's changed is that mark shuttleworth suggested that it might be a good idea for certain trusted developers in the community to be involved in some of these new projects early on
<popey> which was interpreted as "we're doing loads more secret stuff you can't see"
<popey> when it actually meant "we'd like more people to see the secret stuff"
<SuperMatt> I never understood how it was interpreted like that
<popey> people are dumb
<popey> and mark wrote his post in a hurry
<SuperMatt> I read it, seemed a little confused, and then read it again
<SuperMatt> on second read, it was perfectly clear
<SuperMatt> anyone who only reads a source once doesn't deserve to be a journalist
<brianb> i thought that maybe with the various comments over the new dash desktop that appeared in version 11 onwards that maybe this is the reason why a more secretively approach has been adopted
<SuperMatt> and any editor that published it without reading the source doesn't deserve to be an editor
<popey> part of the secrecy is the "big reveal"
<brianb> I can understand that Canonical the company will want to keep the wraps on certain stuff that has a high commercial valve
<brianb> value....
<BigRedS> well, and you normally wait until something works before 'open sourcing' it anyway
<brianb> what surprises me is the very large number of IRC channels that ubuntu have compared to other distros
<mungojerry> proportional to community size
<dogmatic69> ye, was just going to say its because its much bigger than most distros
<brianb> so must be a big community then
 * BigRedS is clearly too simple for Impress
<BigRedS> I think I'm going to use MS Paint for this...
<mungojerry> has anyone made a handouts for a talk, instead of presentation slides, and would like to share the design?
<mungojerry> want something that looks really nice
<mungojerry> for powerpoint style handout
<czajkowski> mungojerry: looked at spread ubuntu
<czajkowski> http://spreadubuntu.org/
<mungojerry> czajkowski, i mean any talk  - i have to do a talk at work and they said no projector, handout only,
<mungojerry> and i wondered if there's anything that can really wow
<czajkowski> mungojerry: yes there are leaflets on there
<popey> mungojerry, scribus has some templates
<bokjhv> Hi Guys .. Just Feelin AWESOME atmo.  !!
<BigRedS> mungojerry: I'd guess it depends on the nature of the talk, really
<popey> maybe a 3 fold type thing?
<mungojerry> i thinking 5 pages, 5 lines on each page, text heavy bit like an average ppt talk. no graphics
<AlanBell> mungojerry: does powerpoint have a layout for handouts that Impress doesn't?
 * AlanBell hasn't really used powerpoint after office 2000
<mungojerry> well when i print them, it looks so bad
<bokjhv> popey, I wondered where you got that post for OTEN earlier .. Qu.1 , Where ? Qu.2 Posted it before ?
<popey> maybe you could be cunning, just give out pieces of paper containing QR codes :)
<mungojerry> wondering if thre's a really cool design for text heavy handouts i could use
<popey> bokjhv, hmm?
<mungojerry> maybe latex :P
<bokjhv> OTEN .. your google plus youtube video post .. crowdfunded project ?
<popey> just an a4 page with a giant QR code on for each person, unique to each participant which takes them to a URL where your ppt is :)
<AlanBell> bokjhv: scam/joke by the look of it
<popey> bokjhv, http://www.otonx.com/ is where I saw it
<bokjhv> yeah , but was it posted on a website .. or did you just trip over it on youtube ??
<bokjhv> oh Ok
<bokjhv> thanx.
<popey> hah, they've disabled comments on yt now
<popey> bokjhv, can't remember, why?
<bokjhv> AlanBell, Did you get some coins for petty cash from IoM recently ?
<AlanBell> oh, they are claiming it is Ubuntu based
<AlanBell> bokjhv: no :( I got an envelope this morning with a nice note in it and a Â£1 sized cut in the corner, some postie gave themselves a tip
<AlanBell> but never mind
<bokjhv> damn .. I'll send a fiver in a cash bag next time .. poo.
<bokjhv> Â£5 note obviuosly ;)
<bokjhv> I think we have stirling out of the hole in the wall next to the Terminal
<AlanBell> gosh, princess Katie has a bun in the oven
<bokjhv> Terminal being the sea Terminal not a hacking scam .. although it's where most of my hackathon trips have begun ;)
<bokjhv> Must resist lookinf=g at Alan's gnewsense tree webcam ,... must resist.
<bokjhv> AlanBell, The LUG in IoM has been called off till March-ist next year .. due to peiople basicaly being not bothereed to make the trip to Douglas on Saturday ;(
<bokjhv> Sadition abounds .
<BigRedS> oooh. google docs seems idiot-proof
<BigRedS> but no export-to-free
<popey> bokjhv, how far is it for people to travel?
<bokjhv> 5 miles usu.
<popey> lol
<popey> if I go to my local lug meet in southampton it's 50 miles each way
<AlanBell> BigRedS: download as -> odt/odp/ods
<popey> luckily they often have them nearer
<bokjhv> Geography goes nuts here a trip to the other side of Town is like going to the dark side of the moon. strange really.
<BigRedS> AlanBell: doesn't seem to do that. Does do PDF, though, which is good enough
<BigRedS> I've no need to edit the downloaded file
<BigRedS> in fact, it's probably best that I can't :)
<AlanBell> ooh, there isn't .odp
<bokjhv> Anyway I had a new project wikimapia .. until I saw it was closed source .. poo.
<bokjhv> Found a new crowd-funding website though .. https://fundrise.com/offerings/1/view  looks legit ..
<bokjhv> Shame it's all one investment company though...
 * bokjhv :note to self .. must stop sucking on the Americae crowdfunding pipe ^_^ 
<bokjhv> Finally got the LEET a/c on my w$ndows sys.(sic) http://goo.gl/G6Eva
<TheOpenSourcerer> how cool is this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1GkYT_CSH8
<popey> very
<czajkowski> For the train fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrhslXjN5xE
<bokjhv> Toys .. here's my wishlist for chrimbo .. http://goo.gl/2dYk4
<BigRedS> w$ndows? That's a new one on me
<bokjhv> :)
<bokjhv> Ofcourse ' Amazon Web serv$ces ' follows closely behind.
<czajkowski> bokjhv: you could just spell the words correctly :) it looks a bit petty
<BigRedS> It's just that "Windows" has an S in it already
<mgdm> I have to say I've not seen someone call Microsoft 'Micro$oft' for a number of years
<mgdm> either I dno't read the right websites/mailing lists any more, or people have grown up
<BigRedS> yeah, I guess MS are less 'everywhere' too, now
<mgdm> or maybe Apple and Google are the new evil ;-)
<MartijnVdS> nah just Apple
<BigRedS> yeah, I think the trick is to have a company name that you can't easily insert a currency symbol into
<MartijnVdS> Applâ¬ ?
<MartijnVdS> AppÂ£â¬?
<dwatkins> So one with letters in?
<jacobw2> Use an upside down Yen sign to the be A
<jacobw2> I'm also quite glad we've progressed from 'M$' et al
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_sign
<MartijnVdS> Â¤ for "o"
<BigRedS> yeah, but it needs to be immediately recognisable as a currency symbol rather than just an encoding bug
<shauno> I just name companies after their stock tickers.  a bit more subtle, a bit less childish
<bokjhv> ÈºPPLE ?
<bokjhv> ÐPPLE ?
<bokjhv> OR Ñ¦pple If you're Jewish ... ..
<MartijnVdS> Isn't the Israeli currency pronounced "Shackle"? ;)
<mohawk> hello? Cans eomeon help me?
<mohawk> someone*
<MartijnVdS> It hinkw ecan!
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<penguin42> mohawk: State the nature of the help required
<mohawk> I have a dual boot ubuntu and windows pc
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: You're The Doctor? :)
<mohawk> i want to make it just ubuntu
<mohawk> but ubuntu is the secondary os
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: :-)
<mohawk> so how do i uninstalll windows and make it just ubuntu?
<penguin42> mohawk: Are they on the same disk?
<bokjhv> Perhaps .. My personal favouite is Winâ   which I google about once every two months .. just to see if I can get the coding ebooks [ http://goo.gl/n1BSs ]
<MartijnVdS> mohawk: you get an Ubuntu install CD, run "gparted", remove the Windows partition, move Ubuntu's swap partition to the end of the disk, resize the Ubuntu partition to be the full disk size
<mohawk> yes they are
<MartijnVdS> mohawk: (just the partition)
<MartijnVdS> then resize the filesystem once you're re-rebooted into Ubuntu
<penguin42> bokjhv: Woah - why is there a â  glyph?
<MartijnVdS> </short version>
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: why not?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well, erm what's it for ?
<bokjhv> penguin42, Cambria Math Font-base
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: U+20A0 EURO-CURRENCY SIGN
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: it's the old "Ecu" currency
<mohawk> I am not the most tech-savvy person, so i think they are on the same partition, i have the recovery partition and the D drive
<penguin42> bokjhv/MartinjnVds: Interesting difference of opinion
<mohawk> I mean the recovery and Local Disk (C:)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: ââ£â¤â¢â­â®â¯ exist..
<MartijnVdS> mohawk: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToRemoveWindows
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Lots of really odd ones in that area
<MartijnVdS> Mohawk-The-Noob: that page should explain it
<Mohawk-The-Noob> ok
<Mohawk-The-Noob> cool
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: there's a new cool block at the end.. with all kinds of emoticons and other things
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I like the set that's used by fliptext.org
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: unicode 6 added "sans-serif bold italic small e" (and the rest of the alphabet)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: lots of variations
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: U+1f000 and up :)
<bokjhv> OK OK lets not get into Hyroglyphics, Plz.
<MartijnVdS> bokjhv: nah these are just domino tiles, cards, mahjong tiles,
<penguin42> bokjhv: Ê,uoÊ ÇÊ 'ÊÉ¹É¹oÊ Ê,uop
<bokjhv> crumbs, I see 'there is no spoon' !!
<penguin42> better eat it with your fingers then
<czajkowski> c
<bokjhv> Did anyone find that article on Pengi OS about spotify and installing the .deb ?? .. wonderfully written.
<bokjhv> I must say the request for Info. on the #spotify channel is a little overwhelming at times.
<brianb> where about are you based popey?
<popey> brianb, farnborough
<neuro> which is like fairford but more stuffy and less fun
<einonm> and presumably pronounced by some Americans as farn-baroogah
<einonm> ..as my wife once had an american ask 'where's loogah-baroogah from here?'
<neuro> americans tend to do "borough" and "burgh" as "boro"
<neuro> after hearing american colleagues in $job-1 refer to "edinburgh" as "edinboro" many, many, MANY times, I can attest to this
<MartijnVdS> Pittsboro?
<neuro> good point, i heard many "edin-burg"s as well
<MartijnVdS> neuro: Be glad it wasn't "Edinbury"
<neuro> never heard that
<shauno> boro/berg are the variations I'm used to too
<einonm> it turned out that loogah-baroogah was quite a way away. She was in lie-cest-err at the time.
<neuro> asking americans to pronounce oddly-worded UK place names is always fun
<neuro> "hey, try Milngavie!"
<neuro> "Gloucester!"
<brianb> ok in hampshire then
<MartijnVdS> neuro: gloucestershire
<shauno> I feel like that here.  6 years in ireland, and I can't pronounce the street I live on
<neuro> "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch!"
<MartijnVdS> neuro: you typed that from memory, didn't you
<neuro> nope
<neuro> google chrome + "llanf" + autocomplete
<MartijnVdS> :)
<neuro> you have to admire my honesty
<MartijnVdS> neuro: try to get people to pronounce "Worcester"
<brianb> apart from windows do any of you guys use other linux distros
<AlanBell> windows is not a linux distro!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's not?!?!
<neuro> "apart from windows"?!
<brianb> i know that
<neuro> i used to be able to say i had no windows systems in my house
<penguin42> brianb: I use Mint and Debian sometimes; but have used RHEL, SLES, Slackware and probably some others in the past
<neuro> now i have a windows 7 laptop, a windows 8 desktop and a windows 7 vm
<neuro> i feel dirty
<shauno> I use debian more places than ubuntu these days
<brianb> anyone tried Hikua, minix or helenos those are ukernel based
<davmor2> neuro: than vair pwilth gwen gilth go gericth wern drobilth thantesilio go go gocth that's obviously the way to say it
<penguin42> brianb: I think I once tried Minix like 20 years ago
<neuro> davmor2: good luck teaching that to americans :)
<neuro> minix ... good lord
 * penguin42 hasn't heard of Hikua or helenos
<neuro> 20 years for me too
<neuro> college!
<shauno> I have haiku in a VM, haven't poked it much yet though
<MartijnVdS> isn't brobostigon running Haiku?
<penguin42> neuro: Yeh, I think last time I saw it was on a 8086 Amstrad
<neuro> IBM PS/2 for me
<penguin42> shauno: What are it's error messages like?
<neuro> 286 power!
<AlanBell> I used riscos the other day :)
<shauno> penguin42: heh, I haven't had any yet
<neuro> AlanBell: masochist!
<penguin42> AlanBell: On a Pi ?
<AlanBell> yeah, on a Pi
<shauno> I did notice someone's built plan9 for the pi
<MartijnVdS> weird people are weird
<AlanBell> it isn't open source as such, but there is a free as in beer image for the pi
<penguin42> weird people? Here? Never....
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, but only off an sdhc,
<brianb> any tried mandriva, mageia or ROSA
<neuro> is plan 9 still under dev or is it just like retroware now?
<penguin42> ROSA? Not heard of ROSA
<neuro> mandriva? that still exists?
<penguin42> thought they became mageia
<shauno> neuro: not sure.  there's still daily snapshots, but the last real release was 2002
<neuro> shame
<neuro> i really liked it
<neuro> that and BeOS
<brianb> yes it now based  upon rosa
<penguin42> brianb: Got a link to Rosa?
<davmor2> penguin42: mageia is post of mandriva free before mandriva filed for bankruptcy again
 * neuro uses an arcane OS called something like "Oh Ess Ecks"
<neuro> and there's a cat on it
<brianb> just type rosa in google or look on distrowatch
<shauno> argh.  it's oh-ess-ten, not oh-sex.
<neuro> Rosa's Thai Restauraunt
<brianb> rosa is a russian development
<penguin42> brianb: I get the Thai Restaurant in London, a UK fund for Women and girls
<neuro> Rosa: The UK Fund for women and girls
<neuro> Rosa on wikipedia
<penguin42> ah - rosalab.com ?
<neuro> shauno: I know, I was being ironical
<brianb> yeah rosalabs
 * neuro hugs his mbp
<brianb> its novel
<penguin42> brianb: There are lots of country popular distros
<neuro> what window manager is that distro using, kde?
<neuro> yup, it is, never mind
<neuro> (just saw a screenshot with dolphin)
<penguin42> neuro: Oh, I read it as a RHEL derivative
<brianb> ive used mandriva for years when i gave windows xp the boot
<AlanBell> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2229164/dells-ubuntu-xps-13-should-worry-microsoft quite a positive spin on the Sputnik
<neuro> penguin42: you can get kde for rhel
<brianb> as well as various versions of ubuntu
<shauno> I use mandrake years ago, before I had a video card that'd do X properly. the only difference I noticed was that they colourized the output of gcc (?!)
<penguin42> neuro: Nod, a little unusual to use as a default on RHEL though - not that I complain, I use KDE on Ubuntu as my main desktop
<neuro> "colourized"
<neuro> sorry, didn't expect to see cross-Atlantic mangling twice in one word :)
<neuro> AlanBell: tis interesting seeing Dell be honest with the pricing
<shauno> colourize is in the OED, ~ise isn't.
<neuro> kinda shows up the futility of asking for your "windows tax" back
<AlanBell> the price is high, but I would have paid it 6 months ago
<neuro> shauno: OED prefers -ize to -ise, so that's not surprising
<AlanBell> we just bought a novatec ultrabook with very similar spec for half the price of the Dell
<penguin42> AlanBell: Generally Dell will sell most of their stuff OS-free to business if you have a sales person; end user sales are more restricted
<shauno> they should both be there when appropriate.  my understanding is that it's greek vs latin, not UK vs US
<neuro> shauno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Spelling/Words_ending_with_%22-ise%22_or_%22-ize%22#Words_ending_with_.22-ise.22_or_.22-ize.22
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_spelling
<AlanBell> penguin42: sure, my main issue with the sputnik was that they sat on the thing for ages before releasing it for purchase, and they are targetting early adopters
<shauno> it still sounds more correct to my ear.  quoting pages that say "Since the 1990s, -ise has become more common in the UK" really doesn't give it much more credence
<penguin42> AlanBell: Why did they sit on it? Time for training internally or wanting to miss the christmas sale period or something?
<brianb> as any one used win 8?
<AlanBell> penguin42: I have no clue. They announced it, and demoed it, and gave 3 away at UDS-Q in May
<neuro> shauno: UK English generally favours -ise
<penguin42> brianb: only in a shop
<neuro> brianb: yes, it's rubbish
<brianb> i was not very impressed with win 8
<penguin42> brianb: It has one very nice feature; windows-d gets back to the old-style interface; I think that's a nice thing to do
<shauno> neuro: according to the pages you just linked, that's a change "since the 1990s".
<AlanBell> penguin42: at the time I was "shut up, and take my money" but now I am "meh"
<brianb> think its a very over hyped MS product
<brianb> android and apple are streets ahead of win 8
<penguin42> brianb: I can see it working nicely as an interface on a tablet; a bit odd on laptops with touchpads
<shauno> imho, it's misunderstanding that since the americans prefer -ize, we must prefer -ise.  which would be frankly just as silly as claiming that every word with an -or ending should be -our in british english.
<neuro> shauno: The Times started using it from the 1990s, not sure where the first reference came from
<neuro> the page used to say "in the past few decades"
<neuro> brianb: android streets ahead of windows?
<brianb> yes
<neuro> on a desktop?
<brianb> and apple ios is streets ahead of win
<neuro> wut?
<dw4tkins> haha
<neuro> windows 7 was actually rather good
<neuro> windows 8 has tablety stuff unnecessarily bodged on
<dw4tkins> brianb: iOS is what runs on an iPhone :)
<shauno> I actually think win8 is quite brave.  from the perspective of someone who doesn't have to use it, it's interesting to see someone try something new
<brianb> and tablets
<popey> ooh, my local pc world has chromebooks in store
<penguin42> shauno: I think the ability to flip back to the old interface removes most of the risk
<neuro> shauno: the devil is in the details unfortunately
<penguin42> popey: The ARM ones?
<popey> not sure
<neuro> the problem with flipping back to the old interface is that the old interface isn't complete
<neuro> i.e. the start menu is gone
<penguin42> neuro: Ah interesting, I hadn't looked ind etail
<brianb> i have dowladed a chrome o/s system to a usb stick its good all the time you are connected to the internet
<neuro> you have to press the windows key or double nudge the mouse against the right side of the desktop to get the start button up
<neuro> and pressing either brings up the not-metro splash screen again
<AlanBell> popey: they had them at Guildford too, but not the ARM ones when I looked (when I got the Nexus 7)
<neuro> some enterprising devs have brought out hacks to try and restore the old win7 start menu again
<penguin42> neuro: 'double nudge' ?! Wow - a whole new paradigm
<neuro> oh sorry, not a double nudge
<brianb> IP that action
<neuro> i'm thinking of getting the menu bar up in some full screen OS X apps
<neuro> you have to go to either the top right or top left of the desktop
<neuro> hover, and the charms menu appears
<neuro> really frustrating to use
<neuro> in retrospect i should have bought the machine with win 8 pro and exercised my downgrade rights
<brianb> anyone used the apple dock app on ubuntu?
<neuro> as it i bought it with win 8 then did the pro upgrade from microsoft.com
<neuro> not sure if i have downgrade rights
<neuro> also i've installed smegtons of stuff off steam and origin, not sure i want to do all that again :)
<popey> brianb, docky?
<brianb> not sure
<neuro> ah, linux, the place where people go to crib other OSes UIs :)
 * neuro hugs his mbp again :)
<popey> trololololo
<neuro> hee
<brianb> Cairo dock is it?
<popey> maybe, dunno, i dont use them
<neuro> popey: you a lens man now?
<shauno> a little trollish, but it's not so far off when people specifically ask for 'the apple dock'
<popey> i use ubuntu + unity
<neuro> kudos for sticking it out
<neuro> i can't use unity, i find it horrendous
<neuro> shauno: it goes way back ... look at fvwm95!
<AlanBell> it is much better than it used to be
<neuro> AlanBell: oh no doubt
<popey> apple never ever copies anything from anyone, ever.
<popey> ever
<brianb> i think it quite good unity only if you have a large screen
<neuro> popey: i didn't say they didn't ;)
<popey> i use it on a 1366x768 screen
<popey> I'm not saying you did :0
<popey> just putting it out there :)
<neuro> f'nar
<neuro> you sultry minx
<brianb> minix eats bugs
<AlanBell> I use unity all the time, generally with two screens of different sizes
<neuro> minix ...
<brianb> well the racoon does
<neuro> minix users who are !students must be in the single digits these days
<brianb> lol
<brianb> not as much as helenos
<penguin42> neuro: They can probably fit in a cab with the Hurd user
<neuro> hehe
<brianb> they dont even chat on that irc channel
<brianb> and i think you have to ask permission to
<brianb> the minix irc is very friendly channel same as haiku
<neuro> popey: arm chromebooks ... is it showing as actually in stock or is it the one where you have to wait a day to get it (they get stock delivered JIT)
<popey> they have it in stock
<popey> "Reserve and collect - in just one hour"
<neuro> quidco have 10% cashback on pc world atm
<brianb> chromebooks are reasonably priced compared to win 8
<neuro> nice, my local currys and PC worlds are all "pay and collect"
<popey> they are capable of much less than windows 8
<popey> so makes sense for them to cost less
<AlanBell> ooh, they do have the ARM one for Â£229
<neuro> AlanBell: john lewis and amazon has it too
<neuro> the sammy with the exynos
<popey> they have at least 5
<neuro> i like the keyboard size
<neuro> makes it look like a 12" titanium powerbook
<brianb> is there a android download that can be used on a pc?
<popey> http://www.android-x86.org/
<brianb> or laptop
<neuro> brianb: there's a mobile emulator as part of the sdk
<neuro> oh, i see what you're asking
<brianb> the problem is we are spoiled for choice now with so many O/S
<popey> i don't believe that's the problem
<neuro> wow, android x86 looks ... messy
<neuro> on vbox image config: "Sound device: change to Sound Blaster 16."
<neuro> there's a thing I've not heard of for quite some time
<brianb> its difficult deciding which is the best system that does what you want and i guess its down to personal prefrence at the end of the day
<AlanBell> choice is a good thing
<brianb> yes very much so
<shauno> it's an easy enough choice here.  there's one sane OS on the desktop, and two on the server.  and the rest is just noise
<neuro> similar here
<neuro> i suspect our desktop choices may differ though ;)
<neuro> quick, let's make jokes about popey
<neuro> ah well
<bokjhv> AlanBell, You mentioned RiscOS on Rasp-Pi .. have seen this .odt ?? http://goo.gl/Zvogf
<neuro> that was a short lived opportunity
<bokjhv> soorry if I've shared it before :)
<AlanBell> that is a 36GB torrent
<neuro> i was about to say that :)
<AlanBell> no thanks :)
<neuro> Theory Of Computation/Computational Complexity - Christos Papadimitriou
<neuro> DOES CHRISTOS KNOW?!
<neuro> that's a very very very cheeky torrent
<bokjhv> Quick question .. do you think this keyboard will work with Ubuntu ?? http://goo.gl/VAK6J  I need it for programming ...
<directhex> yes, but you won't have an exact keymap, iirc
<penguin42> would be surprised if it doesn't
<directhex> i.e. either @ is in the wrong place, or Â£ is missing
<neuro> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppleKeyboard
<bokjhv> oh OK, thank-you .. AlanBell , Sorry linked wrong RiscOS file ,, sorry. http://goo.gl/b3Sza
<neuro> yeah, you pasted a link to something rather naughty :)
<bokjhv> No idea where it came from, honest guv.  afolder within a file .. go figure ?
<neuro> lol
<shauno> I found an edge case that made my shasum script from yesterday explode.  apparently there were duplicate files with different names in the original filelist.  so when the grep returns multiple lines, I end up with some pretty horrendous filenames
<penguin42> shauno: Ah, so your question is what you actually want it to do in that case
<shauno> yeah, it's going to be a fun one.  do I want to create both files, etc
<shauno> or a hardlink so the archive looks complete, but without duplicate entries
<penguin42> shauno: I'm not sure how you ended up doing it; but if you did it by renaming the input files to their sha name and then renaming them out; instead just hardlink them out, and then clean up by removing the files - it should deal with dupes ?
<shauno> the issue still exists that way.  duplicates in the original filelist that I have the shasums recorded for.  so when you grep thesum reflist, you get multiple lines returned
<shauno> mv is quite happy to obey though, so I think I'll just be cleaning up the bad filenames by hand after.  they're a sensible minority
<bigcalm> Foo
<popey> bar
<bigcalm> mc \o/
<bigcalm> Using a trackball is better with mc than I had expected
<shauno> assuming you don't mean midnight commander, find a bald skin and pretend you're just manipulating steve's chromed dome ;)
<shauno> (er, bald-headed.  that reads .. off)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I thought you were proclaiming to be a geek Mic Controller after making popey bar you :D
<daubers> Evening
<MartijnVdS> \o
<zleap> what does this mean (message to ubuntu-uk) mail list got delayed " Message has implicit destination"
<popey> zleap, you cross-posted
<popey> it's generally best practice to send separate mails to separate lists, not cross post to loads of lists
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i was sending the same mail to 3linux list
<zleap> if put to in each address box does it tell other lists were else i sent it ?
<zleap> ok hopefully the moderator will approve
<popey> the moderator is me
<popey> send separate mails
<zleap> ok
<bokjhv> Werll I got the keyboard, anyhow .. good times ahead !
<bokjhv> **Well
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> done
<AlanBell> anyone used chrome remote desktop?
<penguin42> not heard of it
<AlanBell> it is a chrome/chromium plugin that does screen sharing and goes through firewalls/NAT
<AlanBell> https://chrome.google.com/remotedesktop
<AlanBell> apparently fully cross platform and rather cool
<AlanBell> 760137004970 <- see my desktop
<penguin42> interesting, does it detail it's security setup anywhere?
<AlanBell> penguin42: dunno, try connecting to me with that number
<AlanBell> woot
<AlanBell> did it work?
<shauno> hm.  I tried, but got booted as soon as something convincing flashed up
<AlanBell> hmm
<shauno> (sorry, nosey, hadn't seen this before either)
<AlanBell> well it popped up that the session had started, then it cut off
<AlanBell> so it did do some NAT traversal and figured out where I was based on that code
<AlanBell> this would be very cool if it works
<penguin42> Without knowing what was encrypted where and who had access to the decrypted versions I'd be rather nervous
<AlanBell> http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1649523
<AlanBell> Verify that your firewall permits outbound UDP traffic, permits inbound UDP responses, and allows traffic on TCP ports 443 (HTTPS) and 5222 (XMPP).
<shauno> for the last two, allows in which direction?
<AlanBell> so it probably securely negotiates the connection over https and/or xmpp then does UDP for the data connection
<AlanBell> outbound https to google and xmpp to google talk apparently
<AlanBell> once it has done the connection it does stun type stuff to get UDP going between the two endpoints
<AlanBell> which might well also be encrypted
<shauno> hm.  trying to use xmpp as the transport may break it for me.  my google account isn't a gmail address, so I'm backed by a different xmpp server
<AlanBell> dunno, it is supposed to happen by magic, don't think it actually requires a google talk account
<penguin42> AlanBell: I'd prefer these type of things to fully document the security
<AlanBell> 018370090719 multiple monitors are not supported, try that code shauno
<shauno> looks convincing
<penguin42> that would be a lot of monitors
<shauno> oh
<AlanBell> that worked for a bit
<AlanBell> penguin42: heh
<shauno> interesting that it stopped when I switched to a fullscreen app.  it may be that Canary doesn't quite agree with OSX's fullscreen stuff
<shauno> so it looked convincing right until I switched to a terminal to say thus
<AlanBell> hmm, ok
<AlanBell> someone with an OS that can cope with two mouse buttons want to try 886859131921
<shauno> heh
<shauno> ah, I see where it's going wrong.  when I page between different fullscreen apps, it switches gpus for the duration of the transition.  apparently remote desktop doesn't like that
<AlanBell> gosh
<penguin42> shauno: Running bumblebee?
<penguin42> oh...osx
<Monotoko> hey guys... is anyone around here familiar with a program called synergy?
<Monotoko> or more specifically... I need to assign a hotkey to show the sidebar, rather than my mouse in the top corner... synergy is a keyboard+mouse sharing program... and I can't seem to hit the "hotspot" without going to my other PC
<penguin42> I use synergy, but not tried anything like that
<penguin42> indeed I'm typing to you via it now
<Monotoko> I am too... I just can't seem to get the sidebar to show up
<arossDOTme> I am helping a friend. I have given him a flash drive, full install style with adjustments so it does not wear out the flash so quickly. He has mucked up networking. I am a networking newbie. How do I completely reset everything network related? I am looking the the doc on the wiki.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-04
<daftykins> arossDOTme: mucked it up in what way?
<arossDOTme> not connecting
<daftykins> on wired LAN? when it did before?
<AlanBell> does it work in a guest session?
<daftykins> or a new user
<arossDOTme> note I am also getting help on the same problem on #ubuntu
<arossDOTme> eifi
<arossDOTme> wifi
<arossDOTme> hmm
<daftykins> i'd imagine you just have to backup the network config in the user's /home
<arossDOTme> nope i realy need to reset the hole networking lot. its mucked up system level
<arossDOTme> in the network manager guis no interfaces are listed
<daftykins> and what about "sudo ifconfig -a" in a terminal?
<arossDOTme> eth0 and lo are listed and with usb wifi pluged in wlan1 is listed as Ethernet
<daftykins> the interface is there then
<arossDOTme> ok. umm the gui network man is greyed out. DE=gnome (shell)
<penguin42> arossDOTme: What about the output of    sudo nmcli device
<arossDOTme> hate to be so cryptic
<arossDOTme> error net man not running "nmcli dev"
<penguin42> oh hmm
<penguin42> that'll be your problem then; no network manager
<penguin42> arossDOTme: Try   sudo start network-manager
<arossDOTme> arr thats done it. just test wifi and reboot it
<arossDOTme> thanks muchly
<penguin42> whether it comes back after a reboot ....
<arossDOTme> nope its not running on reboot
<penguin42> ok, so hmm it's either not starting because it's blocked on something (but then why would it start when you asked it?) or it's just turned off
<penguin42> arossDOTme: What does    sudo initctl list |grep network-manager   say
<arossDOTme> network-interface-scrity/interface and networking stop/waiting
<arossDOTme> after that then start/running
<arossDOTme> btw on boot in the splash screen it did say waiting for networking blar blar
<penguin42> yeh not too sure how to debug that; the sudo start network-manager at least gets you going
<arossDOTme> hmm reinstall some package?
<arossDOTme> del some mroe configs in /etc?
<penguin42> always a bit dangerous without knowing what to delete
<penguin42> you could try reinstalling network-manager
<arossDOTme> done that allready
<penguin42> not too sure what to suggest; all this stuff gets autostarted by 'upstart' and I've never quite figured out how to debug it
<arossDOTme> ok
<penguin42> I assume you do have an /etc/init/network-manager.conf - actually I think you must have otherwise I don't think it would work with   start
<penguin42> arossDOTme: That says it starts only after local-filesystems have completed, dbus has started and static-networking has completed - so if he's fiddled with either of the 3 then that might be where to start
<arossDOTme> hmm
<penguin42> right, bedtime - good luck
<arossDOTme> thanks
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/274999385136451584
<Azelphur> threes twitter support is useful :D
<Azelphur> also my brother is grumpy
<arossDOTme> Azelphur: twitter & fb = middle man attack.
 * Azelphur shrugs
<arossDOTme> would you like link to darn good talk?
<Azelphur> ?
<arossDOTme> a dam good talk explaining the words "middel man attak".
<Azelphur> I know what a MITM attack is.
<arossDOTme> sorry. not what I meant
<arossDOTme> heck I will never do a as good job as the talk at explaining. I am trash comped to the talk(s). coming up links...
<arossDOTme> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoRbP3yFw_k
<arossDOTme> again the devil youtube Eben Moglen_ Why Freedom of Thought Requires Free Media and Why Free Media Require Free Technology
<arossDOTme> thats the best one
<arossDOTme> first one is also good
<arossDOTme> youtube-dl -f 45 www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKOk4Y4inVY
<pndemc> Is there a way to wget an entire directory and all of its contents?
<MartijnVdS> pndemc: only if there are links to all contents :)
<MartijnVdS> pndemc: wget --mirror --no-parent http://foo.bar
<pndemc> MartijnVdS, thanks I ended up figuring it out, wget -r  http://foo.bar
<MartijnVdS> pndemc: -r is just "Recursively", it'll download anything from that site it can find links to
<pndemc> that did the job, but it took me forever to figure out you need a double space after the argument..
<MartijnVdS> you do?!
<pndemc> yup
<pndemc> won't work without it
<MartijnVdS> strange, it always worked without that here
<MartijnVdS> pndemc: anyway, check the manual for what --mirror and --no-parent do
<pndemc> MartijnVdS, testing it now actually ;)
<pndemc> I tried it earlier without the double space to no success
<pndemc> works with the double though
<MartijnVdS> what was the error?
<MartijnVdS> +message
<pndemc> sec, I'll get you a pastebin
<pndemc> MartijnVdS, btw, --mirror did a much better job
<pndemc> -r grabbed more than I wanted
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> --mirror == -r -N -l inf --no-remove-listing
<pndemc> MartijnVdS, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1409607/
<pndemc> MartijnVdS, notice theres no space after "No such file or directory"
<MartijnVdS> pndemc: Does the current directory (still) exist? Is the filesystem FAT?
<MartijnVdS> weird!
<MartijnVdS> -r shouldn't take arguments
<pndemc> yes everything was there, the only thing I did differently to get it to work was double space...
<MartijnVdS> a double space shouldn't matter.. the shell splits it to the same *argv[] for wget
<MartijnVdS> unless you've aliased "wget -r" :)
<pndemc> then we found a bug >_<
<pndemc> nope, this is a clean ubuntu install
 * MartijnVdS off to work
<diplo> Morning all
<jacobw2> morning diplo :)
<diplo> Quiet one today
<theopensourcerer> !"Â£$%^&*()_+
<theopensourcerer> :-)
<theopensourcerer> Morning
<diplo> Morning theopensourcerer :)
<popey> morning
<jacobw2> mornig
<bokjhv> !#twil@17:25UTC
<bootidsa> IAMaBOT &Im happy to oblige @17:25-yesterday on t' #twil channel, and it reads: 17:25 [bokhjv] A shout goes out to jkeyes0 at this time  :: Hey, hang-in there, mate.
<bokjhv> Much obliged Mister .. you can see the last entry on the w3.twil.tv channel .. http://www.youtube.com/user/twildottv  Jordan you have my sympathies about the sad news.
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/200489-coolermaster-gx-550w-psu-rs-550-acaae3-uk
<popey> how can i tell if that has the necessary connector for a pci express video card?
 * bokjhv is away: /me requires JuanValdez. BRBack...
<DJones> popey: Does this line answer what you were looking for "Designed for dual GPU systems All of the power supplies in the Cooler Master GX range have been specifically designed for dual GPU systems and the 750W model also carries SLI certification for high-end Nvidia GTX graphics cards, as it offers four PCI Express power connectors. "
<popey> ahh
<popey> yeah
<DJones> I wasn't sure if I'd misunderstood what you were asking
<popey> going to move the nvidia card from my old core2duo desktop to my i7 desktop
<popey> but the psu in the i7 isn't up to it, so going to bump that
<popey> also, colour laser printers on ubuntu..
 * DJones debates getting a new office desktop
<theopensourcerer> Xerox work nicely for us.
<theopensourcerer> popey: ^^-^^
<popey> hmm
<theopensourcerer> I have a 6130n at home. Networked and fairly cheap toner cartridges
<popey> seems a discontinued model
<diplo> popey: We also have Xerox's now at work
 * theopensourcerer says so do we
<diplo> These new fangled ones with power cartridge type things ( in our nottingham office )
<diplo> I don't get to use them, my place is so tight that I brought my own printer in from home :)
<popey> i just want something compact and cheap which doesn't cost the earth to refill
<SuperMatt> good luck with that!
<theopensourcerer> I got a good deal on the Xerox - it came with a 2nd set of toner cartridges which I have not yet finished using.
<theopensourcerer> In the past we have found it cheaper to buy a new laser printer than replacement cartridges.
<popey> yeah
<popey> Samsung CLX 3305 Multifunction Printer
<theopensourcerer> Which just seems *wrong*
<popey> thats the one I am currently looking at
<popey> copier is handy
<diplo> I quite like the Samsung printers, not used one with linux yet though so can't comment
<diplo> I print probably a dozen times a year at the most
<einonm> theopensourcerer: Reminds me of this infographic http://www.the-digital-reader.com/2012/09/19/printer-ink-what-it-really-costs-infographic/
<theopensourcerer> Not used one.
<einonm> quite shocking
<popey> Â£190 for the printer, ~Â£160 for toner!
<diplo> This for home or work popey  ?
<popey> home
<Al-phaX> popey, Kodak has the the lowest total ink replacement cost in the industry.
<popey> who?
<theopensourcerer> lol
<Al-phaX> Scanning for Kodak completed ::: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Printers-/1245/i.html?Brand=Kodak&_dmpt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_JN&_sop=1
<popey> none of those are laser printers
 * Al-phaX wonders how someone can searc through 300+ of them in less than 24 seconds ?
<hoover> Hi folks
<Myrtti> ive got samsung mfps b/w lasers
<Myrtti> scx 4200 and 4500w
<popey> Al-phaX, well from my research it doesn't seem kodak make them, making it somewhat redundant searching through all 300 of them
<Myrtti> scanner used to be a pita to get working
<Myrtti> the wifi scanning obviously still is
<Myrtti> but as long as youve got the right ppd they work fine
<popey> this will mostly be used on osx I expect
<popey> the odd job from ubuntu now and then
<Myrtti> then you'll be fine with Samsung
<popey> will have to run this past wifey as I'm planning on putting this in the kitchen
<popey> which obviously needs wifey approval
<Myrtti> why kitchen
<SuperMatt> I've got a samsung clx and the initial batch of toner lastest a looong time
<SuperMatt> then my and the gf tried printing photos and we said goodbye to all of our money
<Myrtti> grease in the air gets stuck inside the printer...
<Myrtti> ew.
<popey> well, the other side of the kitchen
<popey> nowhere near the cooking stuff
<popey> the imac is in the kitchen on the desk as the 'family computer'
<popey> wanted to put the printer next to it
<popey> probably temporarily only, until the office gets remodelled
<Myrtti> I â¥  our SCX-4500W
<Myrtti> too bad they dont make them as good looking anymore
<Myrtti> it looks like the Monolith from 2001 space odyssey
<popey> heh
<popey> http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-kd-84x9005_TV_review
<popey> gosh
<Al-phaX> popey, sounds like you need a HERO http://goo.gl/Dgl70 Which at at 1/5th of it's Â£170 original price :: the end of the search for the printer is over http://goo.gl/pDMXC . and don't just say your better off with '95 tech !
<popey> that hero does look nice
<Al-phaX> http://open.spotify.com/track/3S0cAAu05KzOTa0C6X05FO
<popey> tempting :)
<popey> will run it past wifey, thanks Al-phaX
<dwatkins> I have a Canon printer and considered getting an all-in-one networked printer/scanner, but opted for a Â£20 print server instead, and am quite happy with it.
<mungojerry> anyone know of a zimbra hosting provider?
<Al-phaX> mungojerry, duckduckgo is your friend     , however;
<mungojerry> kind of hoping for personal recommendations
<Al-phaX> I did however notice a small error in the Ubuntu-Weekly-Newsletter https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue294 ...where it links to the XPS13 (enterprise edition, no less !!), but I couldn't find the aforementioned Ubuntu option available http://goo.gl/YFvcQ
<Al-phaX> Any thought/s as to where I can find it ?
<Al-phaX>                                ... no response  & that's where the itch lies.
<daubers> Al-phaX: The Ubuntu XPS13 is only available in the states
<daubers> It's a Dell decision
<Al-phaX> I see .. it's a dotCOM thingy, right ?
<daubers> Np idea :) They prolly do geolocation
<Al-phaX> No, you misunderstand .. when a dell.com ref. is mentioned .. it only refers to the .com residents  :: i.e. Your in America *or* ...the rest of the world can sod off !!
<popey> the URLs on dells website have leaped around all over the place
<popey> I've seen a few for the xps13 which don't work
<popey> very frustrating
 * Al-phaX bought a Dell Vostro, but seems to recall the company vendor was an infamous Auction site instead.
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hiya dwatkins
<Knightwise> hey guys
<brobostigon> hey Knightwise
<Knightwise> how is everyone today
<brobostigon> Knightwise: moody, and you?
<Knightwise> cranky :Ã ) waiting for coworkers to get their act in gear
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> I'm waiting for this annoying cold to go away.
<brobostigon> :(
<dwatkins> haha, Google Reader knows what's in my Amazon wishlist, if the adverts are to be believed.
<popey> i searched for something on ebay, it showed up in my recommended items on amazon :S
<bootidsa> dwatkins, I've got an Amazon wishlist that is fairly faddish & the adverts that I get are closer to what is written on the wall in the town latrine !
<solarcloud> popey, I was looking at this laptop .. http://www.cnet.com/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-twist/4505-3121_7-35477956.html?tag=nl.e404&s_cid=e404  My question is simple .. Is This Ubuntu Friendly At First Glance ??
<popey> to some degree
<popey> the screen wont rotate automatically
<popey> and the touch screen may not work
<solarcloud> A stuck screen and you cant touch it .. sounds like my old projector :)
<popey> i have a toshiba which has that kind of twisty screen, from 3 years ago
<solarcloud> I had a T91 (not sure the manufacturer) netbook with a twisty screen .. it was 1.3GHz Atom .. I was hoping to update my long-haul flight laptop now the T91 is broke.
<solarcloud> What operating system, other than Win7, *would* work with such an advanced device, these days ?
<popey> define "work"
<popey> ubuntu would work on that lenovo thing
<popey> and it wouldn't be hard to write a script to rotate the screen on demand
<Daviey> I setup my X61 to rotate the screen when your twiddled the screen around
<Daviey> landscape, upside down, etc
<solarcloud> it's the fact that it can transform into touchscreen tablet that is needed (to work).
<popey> someone would need to test the touch screen
 * solarcloud thinks he may be requesting to 'moon on a stick'.
<popey> some "just work" like the one in my toshiba
<popey> no, not really
<solarcloud> Am I asking too much ?
<brobostigon> woop, i have my minetest server working again, based on yesterdays source. :)
<popey> but you're asking people who have never seen that device before about 10 minutes ago
<solarcloud> popey, how long have you had your Toshiba ?
<diplo> solarcloud: Buy it and raise some bugs :)
<theopensourcerer> popey: What was the ddns provider you said you were using?
<Knightwise> i am using no-ip.org
<Knightwise> not bad
<Knightwise> got a client running on my mk802.2
<popey> theopensourcerer, afraid.org
<popey> solarcloud, 3 years i think, never use it now
<theopensourcerer> ty popey
<theopensourcerer> ty Knightwise
<bootidsa> popey Yes, you told me .. AFAs being afraid.org  .. looking at my search engine :: www.hopeful.ly is already taken !
<theopensourcerer> Wow. 2.5million signatures and counting: http://www.freeandopenweb.com/#loc=3/8.0000/22.0000
<diplo> Quite fun watching it go up
<diplo> I seemed to have missed it totally!
<mungojerry> my dell wireless has good intel wireless g support, but just moved to a n router and the n driver crashes a lot on ubuntu :(
<mungojerry> it's a 4-5 yr old machine so not much hope there
<directhex> mungojerry, basically, intel wireless is totally broken on wireless n. your best bet is to disable n support
<mungojerry> sad face
<mungojerry> aren't they open drivers?
<mungojerry> nobody tried to fix?
<directhex> the bug's been open for more than a year
<directhex> might be a firmware problem
<directhex> who knows. intel don't seem to care
<directhex> use non-n, or non-intel
<mungojerry> which card you have?
<directhex> fwiw, the issue is AP-dependent.
<mungojerry> oh
<directhex> i.e. n might be fine with some wirless access points, and fail in seconds on others
<mungojerry> i have a talktalk wifi (huawei)
<mungojerry> fails in 30 mins on mine
<directhex> bt homehub is also made by huawei, and mine fails a lot
<directhex> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak] (rev 34)
<mungojerry> there's a known bug on some wifi APs that fails when powersaving is enabled on that card i think
<mungojerry> i had to disable it on powertop until the university upgraded all their APs
<mungojerry> with new fw
<popey> which chips are affected?
<popey> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 1000
<popey> that one?
<mungojerry> i think i have the 6230 centrino N which was affecte
<mungojerry> the intel problem on my dell which is breaking wireless-n is on my D630 latitude
<mungojerry> intel 4965agn
<theopensourcerer> Anyone else use firefox in the main? Ever since v17 I keep getting the grey screen of death from it. Frequently and rather lengthy. Don't think it was like this on v16
<penguin42> theopensourcerer: I use firefox as my main, not seen that
<theopensourcerer> Seeing on two machines.
<theopensourcerer> Both 12.04
<penguin42> hmm I don't have a main 12.04 machine
<popey> theopensourcerer, grey screen of death?
<theopensourcerer> chrisccoulson: You dropped off the net - Anyone else use firefox in the main? Ever since v17 I keep getting the grey screen of death from it. Frequently and rather lengthy. Don't think it was like this on v16
<popey> the compiz thing where the window greys out when it's busy?
<theopensourcerer> Yeah
<theopensourcerer> that
<popey> yeah, i used to get that a fair amount
<popey> was usually when the machine was under lots of io load
<theopensourcerer> I'm getting it *loads* more since the 17 update
 * popey opens ff for the first time since getting 17
<penguin42> popey: I gave up on Chrome partially because it was getting unreliable for me since 12.10
<popey> i dont use chrome really
<popey> i use chromium mostly now
<penguin42> popey: That's what I meant but didn't bother to type
<popey> :)
<penguin42> and we have proof that you use chromium....
<theopensourcerer>  3212 alord     20   0 2470m 1.5g  10m R   99 41.0  79:21.33 firefox  << gah. again.
 * theopensourcerer kills firefox and boots into Chrome for a change.
<penguin42> theopensourcerer: Are you using ff to view very large images?
<theopensourcerer> no.
<theopensourcerer> I have about 15 tabs open
<theopensourcerer> Not that many in my experience
<theopensourcerer> I usually have a lot more.
<penguin42> not sure if ff has anything like chrome's task manager where it shows you what's using lots
<popey> thats why i switched away from firefox, no way of knowing what it's using
<SuperMatt> I prefer using firefox over chrom(e|ium), but for the life of me, I couldn't tell you why
<SuperMatt> it just feels nicer
<diplo> I use chromium/chrome for browsing and FF for web dev mainly
 * penguin42 must try and debug the chromium+synergy that really annoys me - if I paste from synergy into chromium text boxes it reliably hangs
<shauno> Wildly off-topic, Do we have any teachers in here?  on, in the spirit of !ask, does anyone know if L. Ron Hubbard's teaching methods (under the flag of 'Applied Scholastics') have any acceptance outside of the obvious circles?
<bashrc> Isn't that the scientology guy?
<shauno> it is indeed
<bashrc> I'd avoid anything cultish - especially when applied to children whi may be impressionable
<shauno> a friend's just taken a job at a private school that uses these materials & methods, and I'm trying to figure out how best to formulate a reply that isn't just "run"
<bashrc> In general the trendy new-age type stuff tends to consist mainly of fraud, with no evidential basis
<penguin42> shauno: Hmm, given that cults are about getting gullible people to believe and follow people for no good reason, perhaps the methods are perfect way to teach kids things they don't want to learn....
<bashrc> It's probably not a great idea to send your kids to a school which uses methods created by someone who founded a UFO cult
<shauno> penguin42: that had crossed my mind
<shauno> just curious because we tend to have a surprising range of minds in here, and telling someone to walk away from a job offer is heavy enough that I want to make sure I'm seeing past my own biases
<dwatkins> some say that LRH was crazy, which doesn't help the case for his teachings.
<penguin42> dwatkins: But there again so are most teachers
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, but that's a good kind of crazy ;)
<penguin42> dwatkins: Not necessarily in my experience
<bashrc> The sensible thing to do would be to direct the person towards info about Hubbard, and then say something like "is this the kind of guy you want teaching your kids"?
<dwatkins> penguin42: ah ok
 * dwatkins agrees with bashrc 
<dwatkins> There's a whole lot of information on the xenu and clam forums, mostly anectodal obviously but it's quite scary reading people's testimonies.
<shauno> bashrc: that's pretty much the tact I've taken so far
<dwatkins> The best account I've seen of the actual practices in the 'church' was that of Jason Bughe, a Canadian actor who got out.
<dwatkins> best as in detailled etc.
<bashrc> The bottom line is that cults can really ruin people's lives.  Experimenting with your kids in that was is a high risk strategy.
<penguin42> shauno: point him at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Scholastics
<shauno> it's just a helluva bombshell because this school had sounded ideal right until she was introduced to their teaching materials
<bashrc> With these things the wacky stuff always comes at the end
<bashrc> There's a long buildup containing things you can mostly agree with
<directhex> scientology's methods can and have lead to death
<directhex> they're based on basic medieval psychology - deprivation, isolation, etc
<bashrc> We live in troubled times in which many prior beliefs are being brought into question.  But try to keep your wits about you, and not fall prey to charlatans or cultists
<directhex> http://exscientologykids.com/schools.html
<directhex> greenfields?
<shauno> yeah, that one has already been mentioned
<shauno> "when i mentioned id like to go abroad some time and to england and they said theres a school in england thats within the group"
<directhex> yeah, this is 101% part of what's been marked by the uk judiciary as a dangerous cult
<directhex> see also http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/childabuse/schools.html
<shauno> I'm pretty much on the same track, I've just been trying to rule out that any of his materials have actually gained sane acceptance anywhere
<directhex> they've gained lots of acceptance. elsewhere within the church of scientology.
<directhex> but they're completely fabricated, they're not based on any vaid child psychology
<directhex> and remember that psychiatrists are the enemy in scientology teachings, so any valid research into their methods would be seen as equivalent to sunday school being checked over by satanists
<bashrc> The cultists will promise a good life, solidarity, and easy answers to complex problems
<shauno> I had absolutely no idea they operated schools until this name came up in conversation
<directhex> i'm amazed your friend got a job there tbh, normally they don't permit non-scientologists on staff, and none of the "teachers" are usually actually qualified to teach
<directhex> they'll likely try to convert her, so you won't see her again
<bashrc> The classic method is that if you make enquiries they will point you towards books which superficially appear to be rigorous and objective, but which in one way or another have all been published by fellow cult members
<shauno> directhex:
<shauno> ugh
<shauno> yeah, that's the kicker.  she is actually qualified
<directhex> that "school" is not involved in education, it's involved in indoctination
<shauno> teaching english has been her goal for a long time, and this is the first place to offer her a position.  which is why I'm trying to make sure I'm not just jumping at the name alone before I say anything
<directhex> seriously, you may never see her again if the gets the job. they will convert her, and speaking to "suppressive persons" (i.e. people against scientology) is a serious crime.
<bashrc> also if she has good qualifications they they will use that to bolster the reputation of the cult
<mungojerry> looks like i've entered the wrong channel
<penguin42> mungojerry: Try the next one down on the left
<BigRedS> I'm after a self-hosted pretty, functional bug tracker that'll deal with bugs for somewhere between 10 and 30 small projects for about 15 people. Web UI crucial, email nags handy. Any suggestions?
<BigRedS> Bugzilla's in as a proof of concept now, but it seems really clunky and convoluted. Really, we want the bugtracker from launchpad...
<directhex> redmine
<diplo> I was about to suggest that as well, going to test it myself next week.
<BigRedS> ew. admining redmine for our customers is my current least-favourite activity. Is it that good from a user's perspective?
<mungojerry> BigRedS, i don't touch redmine any more
<mungojerry> seems to run itself
<mungojerry> didn't they opensource launchpad?
<BigRedS> ah yeah, I've just had a spate of upgrades recently, and none have come close to smooth
<BigRedS> yeah, but it looks _huge_
<mungojerry> also , there's one called RT
<BigRedS> Request Tracker? Yeah, I've seen that one. All of thse I've only really seen from an admin perspective, though
<mungojerry> rt is better for email based support
<mungojerry> the ui was minging when i saw it
<BigRedS> I think we only need to be able to send out nagging emails from it. Generally, everyone seems to like web forms
<mungojerry> what's been added to redmine in the alst year?
<BigRedS> No idea. It still seems to always need a collection of plugins to do whatever its users want it to do
<mungojerry> private comments in tickets
<BigRedS> better mobile support happened at some point, too
<BigRedS> that's the cause of one of these upgrades I'm doing
<dwatkins> shauno: I gather the 'study tech' used by scientologist teachers is basically an e-meter or lie detector, might be worth mentioning as well
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Study_Tech
<shauno> dwatkins: Yeah, the seed's planted. Left her talking to her family about it. Her brothers a ruby guy, so I can assume he's read the Internet lately
<dwatkins> shauno: cool, you may also find this useful, just for the sake of completeness, knowing everything etc.  http://studytech.org/
<jacobw2> BigRedS: mantis?
<brunogirin> BigRedS: trac?
<shauno> dwatkins: not how I expected that to work out.  her father just burst out laughing and asked if she wants to put a cult on her CV.  and her brother sent her an episode of southpark to watch.  I was expecting this to take much more explaining than it did
<dw4tkins> shauno: a good result all round, then :)
<BigRedS> jacobw2: that rings a vague bell, don't recall having seen it, though. I'd i'd forgotten about trac brunogirin, thanks!
<shauno> jsut bizarre.  this is something I've treated as a running joke online.  not something I expected to actually crop up
<shauno> dw4tkins: just for giggles, http://www.best-english.sk/ukazka-strany/aplikovana-scholastika/celebrity-podporuju-applied-scholastics/
<shauno> some familiar faces there
<solarcloud> popey_, Did you get it ? http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=140892510223
<popey_> heh, no solarcloud
<solarcloud> popey_, What a complete waste of my mother-fracking-time you put me through today !!!
 * solarcloud shrugs
<penguin42> #38+8 postage for a refurbed inkjet?!
<brobostigon>  /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-uk brobostigon
<penguin42> brobostigon: Space is the final frontier, and gets into the wrong places often
<brobostigon> penguin42: hmm, maybe,
<popey_> O_O
<popey_> solarcloud, sorry, wasn't going to buy a 2nd hand one :)
 * bigcalm yawns his way into the office
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: strange office hours.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: I may be in my office, but it doesn't mean that I'm working
<bigcalm> And the ale I am quaffing ensures that I don't do any
<solarcloud> popey.. It's not called 2nd hand anymore because there is a guaranteed return policy .. It's called 'systemD'  .. I'm still irked by the whole distrust, I felt today.
 * solarcloud nods and shrugs
<bigcalm> solarcloud: popey isn't here
<solarcloud> bigcalm, Right Ok , fair enough. I'm actually trying to set up Xchat on my other computer but the room list won't copy and paste into that Server-room window .. anyideas ?.. [I'm going from Xchat to Hexchat] ??
<bigcalm> Can't help you there sorry
<solarcloud> *Request* .. Anyone Else ???
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-05
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> morning
<JamesTait> Morning all! :)
<mungojerry> i'm looking for a wordsmith
<mungojerry> can anyone help me remember a long word that describes what radio5 do when they give equal importance to opinions of a professor who's studied a subject for years and has all the data, and a road sweeper who's giving his uneducated opinion
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning popey
<diplo> Any win8 users in here ?
<diplo> Ive not got a machine to test, but a customer says he's having issues connecting to samba shares with same user/pass as his machine
<diplo> Anyone else experienced that
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
 * bigcalm springs into action and spills coffee everywhere
<diplo> heh, already on cup 3
<bigcalm> Oh, I remember what I was going to ask peeps
<bigcalm> I hear of OS firmware for digital cameras to allow scripting and remote triggering etc. Not sure what googloligy I should be using to find such a thing for my Canon EOS 350D
<popey> http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Lantern_Firmware_Wiki
<popey> eos replacement firmware were the terms I used
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Doesn't seem to support the 350D :(
<bigcalm> Thank you though. I will continue hunting :)
<bigcalm> Seems there is a development build of CHDK for it
<bigcalm> At some point in the near future, I will need to write a desktop application. For the last 6+ years I've had my head stuck in PHP. I'm sure it could be done, but is there a better language option? Considering Python
<popey> vala?
<popey> go?
<bigcalm> Are they easy to learn?
<popey> pass
<bigcalm> I'll need to interface with a webcam and other USB devices. Think I need to choose something that has a lot of existing libs to help me do stuff :)
<daubers> What's bitfolks irc channel? For some reason I can't ping any bitfolk IP's from a machine in Oz
<diplo> bigcalm: Sounds like python then
<Dave2> #bitfolk on blitzed
<diplo> #bitfoler on irc.blitzed.org
<diplo> hah, typos
<diplo> :P
<yts01> dfg
<daubers> Those ubuntu-au types are lovely people
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> daubers, got your problem sorted?
<daubers> popey: No :( Seems to be a problem with telstra not routing bitfolks IP range
<popey> i had this issue with someone connecting to bitfolk from canada a few years ago
<daubers> :(
<popey> misconfiguration their end
<daubers> Silly ISPs
<davmor2> popey: How is raring
<popey> ok
<popey> new unity lands in it later
<davmor2> popey: nice
<davmor2> popey: if you install vbox on raring let me know if it runs it wasn't for me last Thursday :(  the kernel module wouldn't instal
<davmor2> l
<popey> i do have it in vbox
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/a/214968/612
<popey> davmor2, ^^ do that
<Knightwise> hey everyone
<aquarius> anyone know who's behind Turtle Studios? http://turtle-studios.co.uk/index.html
<directhex>         David Young
<directhex>         45 Whitebridges
<directhex>         Honiton
<directhex> ^^ him
<davmor2> popey: Sorry I meant I am running raring as a host and wants vbox to work on it but the kernel drivers for running vbox never install correctly
<aquarius> directhex, hm, how did you find that? perhaps I'm blind :)
<AlanBell> whois turtle-studios.co.uk
<AlanBell> would be my guess
<popey> davmor2, yeah, I'm running raring at the host too
<davmor2> popey: oh nice I'll give it a bash then :)
<popey> AlanBell, theopensourcerer what's the plan for tomorrow?
<AlanBell> lunch \o/
<davmor2> popey: well they are going to get up, get washed and dressed..........
<AlanBell> no massively detailed plan, if you turn up at the office at some point we can wander into town and find food
<AlanBell> dunno if we will get as far as going past the mulburry
<popey> roger roger
<popey> aquarius, http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005VBNW2G/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
<popey> cheap replacement for your blue charge thing
<popey> which looks a bit iphone ish
<aquarius> popey, I still have the blue charge thing :)
<popey> ERROR: Incorrect styling!
<aquarius> doesn't match the iphone, of course
<aquarius> but I don't think I'm so hung up on matching accessories that I'm prepared to bin a perfectly working pretty item just because it's the wrong colour. :)
<diplo> yay sensible wins!
<directhex> but... iphone! pretty! colour coordination!
<christel> boo the snow has disappeared again
<directhex> sigh.
<directhex> evolution is terrible, and so is thunderbird
<BigRedS> In general, mail clients are largely flawed
<BigRedS> you've just got to find the one with the most agreeable flaws
<BigRedS> I use Hastymail and mutt, which has reduced my swearing dramatically
<BigRedS> er, Roundcube, not hastymail
<SuperMatt> if I had my way, I'd use gmail for my work mail
<SuperMatt> oh how I wish I could
<SuperMatt> it's by far the best email client
<directhex> thunderbird is basically impossible to deploy in an enterprise environment
<directhex> and evolution is bugged beyond use
<SuperMatt> agreed
<SuperMatt> I use evolution though because at least it connects to exchange servers
<BigRedS> does it? Last time I tried that (about five years ago) the exchange connector bit crashed about three times an hour and demanded I restart evolution
<BigRedS> I just quetly enabled IMAP on the exchange server
<diplo> BigRedS: :P
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: it's working for me now, so that's the most I can tell you
<AlanBell> is that the connector that screen scrapes the web interface of exchange?
<BigRedS> yeah, that sounds familiar
<Knightwise> Stupid mountain lion
<SuperMatt> rawr
<solarcloud> AlanBell, [the ref] was recently seen on Bulgarian TV http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/bulgarian-player-banned-body-check-referee-115402499.html  .. What are you doing on B-TV AlanBell ? :D
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> i have a problem with script..
<ddfgt> http://pastebin.ca/2289624
<ddfgt> i try to learn how to make a list
<ikonia> ddfgt: looks like a crappy forkbom
<ikonia> bomb
<ikonia> a poor attempt at one
<ikonia> what do you expect that to do ?
<dwatkins> echoing executes things from the list?
<ikonia> just seems like a pointless loop
<dwatkins> ah, backticks
<ikonia> that's trying to build up a long string....
<ikonia> gee I wonder what that's going to do
<dwatkins> something wonderful....ly dangerous, no doubt
<dwatkins> I think I'd trust it as far as I could throw my chair
<ikonia> well considering ddfgt is claiming he's writing it to learn how to make a list, I smell a rat
<dwatkins> seems like a cumbersome way to make a list, at very least.
<popey> it does nothing harmful
<popey> its just the symbols from the top line of the keyboard
<dwatkins> ahh
<selinium> hi all.. in the 12.10 desktop is the desktop sharing VNC?
<SuperMatt> oooh, I see the compiz update has just landed :)
<awilkins> Anyone made any progress on that stabbing-people-in-the-face-over-the-internet device?
<jacobw2> awilkins: not much
<MartijnVdS> hmm, http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-dave-brubeck-dead-20121205,0,7126256.column
 * solarcloud is away: /me requires JuanValdez. BRBack...
 * solarcloud is back (gone 00:07:02)
<popey> solarcloud, could you turn that off pls
<solarcloud> done.
<popey> thanks
<davidmarais> isfe
<solarcloud> davidmarais, What did you say ?
<davidmarais> I was on the wrong channel np :)
<solarcloud> k
<dubac0> umm i have an asus eeepc 1015pn it wont charge what can i do?
<dwatkins> dubac0: does the power adapter LED turn on?
<dubac0> yes
<dubac0> its powered up on mains power
<dwatkins> ah ok, sounds like the battery is the most likely candidate, although it might be the charging circuit, I Guess.
<dwatkins> tried reseating the battery just in case?
<dubac0> how?
<dwatkins> power down the laptop, remove the battery (assuming you can do that) and put it back again
<dubac0> 0k done that and restarting
<dubac0> nope still the same
<dw4tkins> bah
<dw4tkins> is it definitely not charging, i.e. could it be a software problem with not registering the charge?
<dw4tkins> otherwise I guess it's time to get a new battery.
<dubac0> nope i left i "charging" for weeks
<dubac0> nothing
<dw4tkins> what OS are you running?
<dubac0> xbuntu
<dubac0> xubuntu*
<dw4tkins> I assume if you power up and go into the BIOS (so that if it loses power no data is lost) and remove power, it does indeed power off straight away
<dubac0> yeah
<dubac0> its dependednt upon the cable
<dw4tkins> oh?
<dw4tkins> oh I see what you mean, it needs power
<dw4tkins> I got a double-capacity battery for my Eee 901, it's not pretty but it lasts 8 hours.
<jacobw2> holy crap batman penn and teller are awesome
<jacobw2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iom97u078
<solarcloud> jacobw2, How far into the video are they (minutes) ??
<jacobw2> solarcloud: all the way through
<jacobw2> solarcloud: their actual performance starts at about 36 minutes
<solarcloud> Oh, Isee thought it was about batman, for a minute .. ^_^
<jacobw2> i can see how you'd make that mistake
<jacobw2> (not really)
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> how i can print 2 things in python in the same line..
<MartijnVdS> ddfgt: by using stdout.write() instead of print
<MartijnVdS> ddfgt: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3263672/python-the-difference-between-sys-stdout-write-and-print
<ddfgt> this is what i did
<ddfgt> a = 2.0        print "a=" a
<ddfgt> i want to get something like that
<jacobw2> print "a={a}".format(a=a)
<ddfgt> a=2.0
<ddfgt> what is the format?
<MartijnVdS> ddfgt: that's called a format, yes :)
<MartijnVdS> ddfgt: http://docs.python.org/2/library/string.html#format-specification-mini-language
<MartijnVdS> ddfgt: Google is your friend ;)
<jacobw2> in python, the string type has the format method which can subsitute labels with variables
<jacobw2> and many other things :|
<ddfgt> i'm to new to python..
<jacobw2> it's good thing to be new to
<ddfgt> what so good in that?
<jacobw2> it fun and useful
<solarcloud> receipt says : 1.lt of Pepsi Max . I say, : Awesome at 11p.m. compliling.
<solarcloud> **compiling..
<MartijnVdS> solarcloud: compiling? I just finished releasing + huge db migration :)
<solarcloud> MartijnVdS,   No Pepsi Max = Not Awesome [period]
<MartijnVdS> solarcloud: meh, I gave up soft drinks a long time ago
<MartijnVdS> Tea or beer for me ;)
<MonsterKiller> how does one get a cronjob to run ever hour?
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: 0 */2 * * * echo "It's `date`. Do you know where your children are?"
<MartijnVdS> oh every hour?
<MonsterKiller> yeah
<MartijnVdS> 0 * * * *
<MartijnVdS> "on the 0th minute of every hour of every day of every month"
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: see "man 5 crontab" for more example
<MartijnVdS> s
<MonsterKiller> ah okay, thanks. i was reading around and saw that * 0 * * * was every hour and wondered why it didnt work :p
<MartijnVdS> no,
<MartijnVdS> * 0 * * * = every minute of the 0th hour of the day
<MartijnVdS> so 0:00 - 0:59
<MonsterKiller> ah kk. ty
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: again, man 5 crontab for enlightenment
<MonsterKiller> :p
<solarcloud> Question: Anyone else see it tonite ? http://goo.gl/Oknyu
<MonsterKiller> whats that5
<AlanBell> lunar eclipse?
<MonsterKiller> cant see it
<MonsterKiller> :/
<solarcloud> AlanBell, Possibly lunar correct, take a looksie. Should be in the North East direction ?
<solarcloud> (if your in the Rutland Area)
<AlanBell> too low for me
 * solarcloud is ordering a tripod as we speak .. sorry for the bluryness.
<AlanBell> moon is due east
<AlanBell> quite low to the horizon
<solarcloud> Ahh .. AlanBell has better celestial navigation App. than solarcloud does ..
<AlanBell> google sky maps on a Nexus 7 :)
<solarcloud> Ubuntu on Nexus 7 .. you in the Nexus-7 team ?
<AlanBell> android on nexus 7
<solarcloud> AlanBell, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7
<AlanBell> but anyone can put ubuntu on the n7
<AlanBell> yeah, I have had a play with it
<solarcloud> Awesome.. I was at the meeting last week on #ubuntu-meeting (should be in your google calendar, I guess)..
<solarcloud> AlanBell, I used to see you on G+ hangout once every so-often .. Been quite quiet lately ?
<andbittin> Just got home from UK and listning to the podcast
<solarcloud> address ?
<AlanBell> I don't do G+ hangouts much, you might be confusing me with someone else
<andbittin> solarcloud: hm?
<solarcloud> AlanBell, You don't be you did do one that I was interacting with last week or So. with a couple of Ubuntu-ists from America .. Your office looked nice , We had an indian ask about your webcam (in a strangely unenglish way) .. I enjoyed it.
<solarcloud> andbittin, address of the podcast, matey.
<solarcloud> **You don't but ..
<andbittin> solarcloud: podcast.ubuntu-uk.org
 * solarcloud thinks G+ #hangouts should beat skype soon in meeting new persons.
<solarcloud> opening...
<solarcloud> odd domain name, but the Dude Abides :D
<AlanBell> solarcloud: ah yes, that hangout :) was a warmup for the ubuntu on air thing I did
<solarcloud> Ahh Ok . love to org. another one :)
<AlanBell> I don't do any regular hangouts or videocasts really
<AlanBell> hangouts can be fun, just helps if you have a plan of what to talk about
<solarcloud> You should . it's a good way to find source.
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-06
<solarcloud> AlanBell,  Love to talk about: What Extensions and Plugins People Use On Their Web Browsers (firefox for example)
<solarcloud> 'collusion'Ext.  being a priority.
<solarcloud> V. 0.24 atmo.
<Aivaras> How can I check if key is functioning as hardware one or as software one?
<Aivaras> it is wifi enabled/disabled key in F12's place. I would like to make it active only as f12 because I don't want to turn of my wifi accidently.
<directhex> run the command "xev"
<directhex> from a terminal
<directhex> it'll pop up a white window. any software-managed key you press in that white window will appear on the terminal behind it
<Aivaras> so if I press f12 and it outputs nothing there is nothing I can do?
<directhex> precisely
<directhex> well, maybe turn it off in the BIOS
<directhex> maybe
<directhex> more friendly but less accurate is evtest. evtest /dev/input/by-id/mykeyboarddevice-event-kbd
<Aivaras> thanks mate, I will try my luck in bios then  I turn pc off. This new pc is like nightmare... :D
<directhex> (sometimes a "keyboard" is treated as more than one device by the OS, e.g. this keyboard has two devices with different sets of keys, /dev/input/by-id/usb-Razer_Razer_Lycosa-event-kbd and /dev/input/by-id/usb-Razer_Razer_Lycosa-event-if01
<directhex> )
<penguin42> Aivaras: For reference what PC is it, and what does the f12 key look like?
<Aivaras> it is HP G6. and f12 like normal f12
<penguin42> Aivaras: OK, and which version of Ubuntu?
<directhex> (my mouse also shows up as both a mouse and a keyboard. the mouse is programmable, so this is how the keys can be programmed - the mouse identifies itself as both a mouse and a keyboard, and with the management software for windows, can be set to emit keyboard keys instead of mouse buttons as required)
<directhex> (input devices are funny)
<Aivaras> the latest 5
<Aivaras> oh
<Aivaras> latest 64bit
<directhex> (did you know most uninterruptable power supplies use the kernel's joystick driver to report battery levels?)
<penguin42> directhex: Admit it you've got a mean keyboard
<directhex> penguin42, this is a hand me down from my wife. some of the keycaps have rubbed clear
<directhex> asdcol are all see-through
<penguin42> I guess joysticks were a USB driven standard that had analogue values
<directhex> and half the space bar
<penguin42> directhex: I hate to ask this question; but if your UPS reports that the fire button is pressed - what do you do?
<directhex> set it on fire! duh
<Aivaras> I've just cat
<Aivaras> ...
<directhex> i never tried running jstest on a UPS#
<penguin42> directhex: With UPSs I'd be more worried it was already on fire
<Aivaras> I just cated /dev/input/by-path/ blah blah and f12 is not effective there too.
<Aivaras> thanks guys, that was on BIOS. :) (strange F keys thing)
<penguin42> weird thing to break in a bios; they're getting more creative
<Aivaras> But I was thinking are F keys so rearly used that HP decided them to make do suff ?
<penguin42> no!
<Aivaras> That is what I was thinking
<Aivaras> but why HP think differently?
<shauno> this is getting pretty normal on laptops
<penguin42> Aivaras: I mean it's normally the type of thing where you have to hold down a Fn button together with the key toget it to have the special meaning some how
<penguin42> that's what my laptop does
<Aivaras> that is what my old one did
<Aivaras> and now new one does
<shauno> mine defaults to hardware functions, with an option to reverse it
<penguin42> weird
<Aivaras> mine is same as shauno
<penguin42> that's going to confuse the heck out of people for years to come
<penguin42> Aivaras: What layout keyboard is it - is it something they've only done on some layouts or all?
<Aivaras> It is standart uk one
<Aivaras> I think this is what they did
<penguin42> hmm
<Aivaras> I was not able to do anything with my input devices in alsamixer because by default you are in output and you can move only(?) with F keys :D
<penguin42> oh god, we're going to have zillions of people falling over that
<Aivaras> what if we would try to write HP some letters why it is bad to make options like this a default?
<penguin42> how the heck you get it to someone who understands is the challenge
<diplo> Morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> morning
<jacobw> morningage
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning all
<jacobw> morning czajkowski MooDoo
<czajkowski> jacobw: howdy
<daubers> o/
<diplo> Another tumble weed day here again it seems :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<directhex> nothing to say. computers seem to be working
<JamesTait> diplo, BOO!
<directhex> ish. ymmv. ianal.
<directhex> iddqd
<diplo> yay activity
<JamesTait> That's me done for today though. I'm just going to lurk now, same as always.
<diplo> hah JamesTait
<diplo> Shall we just highlight your name every 20 mins or so ?
<diplo> :)
 * JamesTait isn't listening.
<JamesTait> Lalalalalaaa
<JamesTait> Today I'm back on my own laptop, having resurrected the screen last night. Yesterday I was on my wife's laptop, and that doesn't notify me when I'm mentioned.
<diplo> Oh, ok JamesTait :)
 * JamesTait whistles
<diplo> heh, I use irssi and not integrated it into anything yet so just get highlighted in the channe;
<diplo> -; +l
<JamesTait> Me too!
<JamesTait> I found a script that does the notification thing, but it's not perfect.
 * MooDoo uses irssi and have just been given a dell poweredge 1750 :)
 * JamesTait ignores MooDoo.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: :p
 * JamesTait does /script unload notify
<diplo> 1750 is old old isn't it
<diplo> ?
<diplo> We used to run the 2950's at my last place, they have to be 6-7 years old now
<directhex> poweredge 1750 is pretty old, yeah
 * JamesTait has an HP DL140 G1 gathering dust (and probably moisture) in the garage^Woffice.
<directhex> p3, no?
<directhex> hm, no, looks like p4-era xeon
<diplo> heh was just about to type the same thing
 * diplo just dragged out some servers from my garage and booted up
<MooDoo> diplo: yes it is, still it's a server i can play with
<diplo> Some p4's and Opteron 244 machines
<JamesTait> MooDoo, +1
<diplo> Give all 3 to work in exchange for a HP Micro with lot's of ram and disks so I can run stuff locally in vm's down here
<MooDoo> diplo: I'll probably put esxi on it
<diplo> None of mine support it :( why i want to swap
<MooDoo> diplo: ?
<diplo> esxi
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah sorry i meant why won't it work?
<diplo> Sorry, half asleep.. no virtual extension support
<diplo> All my servers, why I want to swap with work
<MooDoo> ah!  I olnly had one 32bit server so had to play with 3.5, hopefully I can use a new version lol
<diplo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/aj6061303i9dfu4/IMG_20121109_094530.jpg
<diplo> Old... :P
<MooDoo> waiting for the page to load...waiting for the page to load
<diplo> I know, it took forever for me as well
<MooDoo> just have to find some scsi drives now.
<diplo> 6 drives in the 4u
<diplo> 4 in the supermicro now
<diplo> and i think 2 in the custom one on top
<MooDoo> yeah this poweredge can take 3, up to 425gb storage
<diplo> If work doesn't want them, reckon they'll go on fleabay ?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> good morning to you
<brobostigon> good morning SuperMatt
<mungojerry> good morning world
<brobostigon> morning mungojerry
<MooDoo> hello mungojerry
<davmor2> Morning All
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you had snow up there yet, I'm getting jealous I've only had sunshine
<MooDoo> davmor2: no mate, clear as a bell, not even a flurry
<davmor2> MooDoo: I reckon it's a conspiracy by the southerns
<MooDoo> yeah are all gits.
<diplo> Nope, none here either
<diplo> Bloody freezing, but no snow
<codecowboy> If I try a command as sudo I get the error "sudo: unable to cache group DOMAINNAME\Enterprise^Admins, already exists". What does this mean? WHy is it trying to cache something?
<czajkowski> popey: ping
<popey> czajkowski, pong!
<czajkowski> popey: ello, you in the office today/tomorrow?
<popey>  no, day off today
<AlanBell> popey: what time are you coming round?
<popey> AlanBell, just looking at train times
<czajkowski> popey: ah okie dokie, wanted to give you the games
<popey> ah, not sure when I'll be in
<popey> AlanBell, hmm, wont make the 11:40 but will make the 12:16, gets to farnham at 1pm.. that okay?
<popey> oooh!
<popey> wifey has arrived home
<czajkowski> no worries, will get them down to mine over the next few days as J is doing more trips
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, that is fine, I just have to pop out to the pet shop at some point
<popey> hmm
<popey> wifey ill
<AlanBell> oh :(
<AlanBell> does that mean popey has to collect offspring later?
<popey> just working that out
<bigcalm> popey: having just opened x-chat, your last line could mean anything
 * bigcalm imagines everything
<popey> ooh, ash vale to farnham makes more sense
<popey> ok, will be there at 1pm, kids being sorted by other people
<solarcloud> bigcalm, popey from 16 minutes ago was talking about, who has the job of collecting their sprog-s (from school), due to one of them being under-well.  apparently they have outsourced this task to another guardian  .. [Solarcloud, wishes he could outsource his FPS-Game today :]
<bigcalm> erm, thanks
<solarcloud> you did 'wonder'.
<codecowboy> If I try a command as sudo I get the error "sudo: unable to cache group DOMAINNAME\Enterprise^Admins, already exists". What does this mean? WHy is it trying to cache something?
<codecowboy> I am logging in as an Active Directory user
<AlanBell> sounds like a likewise open issue
<codecowboy> AlanBell, the thing that lets linux talk to AD?
<AlanBell> I am guessing so
<AlanBell> bug 548893
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 548893 in sudo (Ubuntu) "1.7.2p1ubuntu3 (lucid) :Gid Duplicate verification problem with likewise" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548893
<solarcloud> AlanBell, That be no moon last night, that was a solar-cloud :] http://goo.gl/KJmGB
<mungojerry> does anyone have a combo washing machine/tumble dryer?
<mungojerry> what's the consensus nowadays?
<mungojerry> i have a good bosch washing machine but need a tumble dryer but have no space for it
<directhex> i have one.
<mungojerry> years ago they had bad rep
<mungojerry> directhex, do they dry clothes OK?
<mungojerry> reliability?
<directhex> yeah. as long as it's not broken.
<directhex> had it repaired once
<directhex> by and large, they rate poorly for reliability compared to many white goods
<mungojerry> still?
<directhex> but that's something you deal with. e.g. by getting a 5 year warranty
<davmor2> mungojerry: whats above the washing machine
<mungojerry> sister complains hers doesn't dr yht eclothes properly
<mungojerry> the kitchen counter
<davmor2> mungojerry: sometimes they stand alone if that was the case you could of put a standard dry on top of the masher
<davmor2> washer even
<mungojerry> missis wants to get a separate drier
<dwatkins> don't put your clothes in a masher... ;)
<mungojerry> but it will ruin our dining space
<dwatkins> I don't have a dryer, I just hang things up to dry
<mungojerry> and would have to hang the tube out of window
<mungojerry> dwatkins, my sprog means lots of washing
<mungojerry> never seems to dry
<directhex> oh, and a GOOD device will cost you
<dwatkins> mungojerry: can you get one of those things that goes above the bath and you hoist it down?
<dwatkins> mungojerry: ah yes
<directhex> ours is "good", has broken down once, and was more than Â£500
<dwatkins> mungojerry: the other option is a combined washer-dryer, of course
<directhex> a top end one, aka Miele, is closer to Â£1k
<mungojerry> directhex, model?
<mungojerry> zanussi?
<directhex> spend less than Â£450 or so, and you get one that's no better than in the 1990s
<directhex> mungojerry, AEG
<directhex> for white goods, buy german
<einonm> I heard somewhere that there are only 2-3 manufacturers of machines nowadays
<directhex> aeg, bosch, miele
<mungojerry> in laws are saying they will buy us a Â£200 drier
<directhex> skip other brands
<mungojerry> so can put towards a combo one
<einonm> the only difference is the casing and support you get, even Miele
<mungojerry> shame that my bosch washer is still great
<davmor2> mungojerry: aeg or bosch
<mungojerry> but it could pack up at any time, you never know
<dwatkins> yeah, Bosch
<mungojerry> weird question but my sister says hers doesn't dry things properly, could that be true?
<czajkowski> combo ones are in fact awful
<mungojerry> are the cycles really long?
<czajkowski> they don't dry things properly
<czajkowski> or else you have to put them on for multiple trips to dry
<czajkowski> pita!
<mungojerry> czajkowski, thats my questoin, is that all of them or just some
<czajkowski> all I've ever had the displeasure of using
<czajkowski> here in the current apt and in my old place in .ie
<czajkowski> awful
<dwatkins> I had a John Lewis washer/dryer, it still required me to hang things up to dry, czajkowski is not wrong.
<davmor2> mungojerry: do you have a garage and does it have power?
<mungojerry> yes Dave2
<mungojerry> davmor2,
<mungojerry> now i'm suspicous
<davmor2> mungojerry: stick the dryer in there
<mungojerry> don't wanna ditch my good washer if the washer/drier combo is lame
<mungojerry> davmor2, does this link work https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sS4suwImYJFkgSTd-IMhRJ2bNfMSoQ8T1DSghFVww2U?feat=directlink
<mungojerry> gets bit damp and nasty
<mungojerry> and spiders
<dwatkins> I work with a guy who used to live in a commune in Spain, they found a broken down washing machine and got it working using an old motor and a solar panel. Much easier in Spain, of course.
<penguin42> wow, on a washing machine - that's impressive
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, all it really did was churn the clothes around, but it was enough - and better than having to go to the stream to wash them
<czajkowski> mungojerry: aye in the last place we stuck a tumble dryer in the shed, was the best thing we ever did
<penguin42> dwatkins: Should have used a dog in a wheel
<mungojerry> not sure how i would damp proof my shed
<dwatkins> haha, good plan penguin42
<czajkowski> mungojerry: it doesnt need to be damp proof tbh
<czajkowski> get a condenser so it doesnt need to be pipped
<penguin42> mungojerry: a big tarp?
<czajkowski> t/c
<bootljv> Quick question .. Will coreboot work with Ubuntu Raring ... as in here .. â http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221162835313?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 ??
<AlanBell> mungojerry: with the washer/dryers they have a much lower drying capacity than washing capacity, so you have to take out half the washed stuff for it to dry at all
<mungojerry> this is all v depressing
<mungojerry> might ask the missis about the shed idea but i don't think she will like it
<AlanBell> condenser in the shed would work fine
<AlanBell> we had a non-condensing one in the shed in the last house and I cut a hole in the perspex window to get the pipe out
<AlanBell> we now have a condensing one in the house and it is fine
<mungojerry> was your shed nice?
<mungojerry> i have a concrete base
<AlanBell> it was small
<mungojerry> but it's got ivy growing on it and it gets really dank
<mungojerry> posted a pic of mine up there ^^
<mungojerry> do parents in here do the father christmas thing?
<MooDoo> mungojerry: thing?
<mungojerry> don't like lying to my kid about that sort of thing, so i won't pretend the whole reindeer, presents, chimney thing
<MooDoo> mungojerry: each to their own, but I do
<MooDoo> and my kids love it
<mungojerry> yeah my in-laws are bit cheesed off that i won't do it
<mungojerry> apparently i never believed a word of it when i was a kid
<MooDoo> mungojerry: miserable sod ;)
<mungojerry> i prefer not to confuse him
<mungojerry> blurs the line a bit too much between pretending and misinformatio
<solarcloud> Did anyone get bootljv's Question @ 12:51 earlier ??
<czajkowski> mungojerry: bahhumbug you!
<mungojerry> :D
<czajkowski> mungojerry: do the christmas thing, all the other kids do it
<mungojerry> we do christmas , very much so
<mungojerry> i prefr to keep the real meaning
<czajkowski> ah so you do the whole advent thing, christmas mass, nativity etc
<solarcloud> czajkowski, Hi , how's Ireland doing at the moment ?
<czajkowski> solarcloud: no idea I'm in England :)
<solarcloud> .. oh I did chat to you on ubuntu-ie last month, I think.
<mungojerry> czajkowski, very much
<czajkowski> I fly back and forth ;)
<AlanBell> we have a popey here
 * solarcloud gets his nationalities wrong again !
<AlanBell> pub time :)
<czajkowski> solarcloud: no you're fine, I'm Irish, living in London, I work ffrom home in london
<czajkowski> but do fly back to .ie and work from there from time to time
<solarcloud> AlanBell, Cafferys for-me please.
<christel> drunkards!
<solarcloud> Ahh Ok then.
<solarcloud> christel, You'll be havin' a Britvic, then ?
<christel> (nah i was just moaning about not being invited! ;))
<solarcloud> google hangout time ?
<solarcloud> Does anyone actually Use Google hangout atall ?
<christel> IF THEY DO THEY NEVER INV..oh fine i'll stop complaining now!
<solarcloud> what does INV mean ?
<christel> i was typing invited and then stopped, in a humourous fashion
<christel> i also cant spell humourous(!)
 * solarcloud accepts complaints .. he listens .
<christel> mungojerry: what is "the father christmas" thing? :)
<DJones> If you've got kids, this might bring a smile to their faces http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW1pbuyGlQ0 It works for me (although I remember the original) :)
<czajkowski> DJones: or if you're just a big kid!
<czajkowski> :)
<christel> being foreign i have a different relationship with father christmas than you guys -- he's not some mystical guy who climbs down the chimney (he'd catch fire, our woodburners are in full flame all through winter in northern norway)
<mungojerry> christel, yeah that sort of thing
<christel> and as a child he very much featured as part of christmas, insofar that reindeer would arrive with a jolly man carrying sacks of presents about an hour after we'd had dinner, he'd hand out gifts, have a cognac and head off to his next stop
<solarcloud> christel, Yes, over here he's basically Bill from down the street dressed in Red after a couple of bevvies :)
<mungojerry> pretending some father chrimstas guy brings you gifts rather than family and friends
<DJones> christel: I thought you were going to start talking about the robot santa from Futurama then
<christel> that said -- noone ever told us he was "real" -- it was pretty obvious that it was some random friend of my dad who had nothing better to do, owned a few reindeer and rather enjoyed nice cognac
<mungojerry> not sure whether to cash in some of my ARM shares
<czajkowski> christel: not sure any of my neighbours own any reindeers :)
<czajkowski> cows yes :)
<christel> but it was exciting nontheless as when we could hear the bells it meant that he was approaching and that in turn meant that it was nearly time for presents!
 * solarcloud remembers Father Christmas being a Dutch Uncle too !
<christel> as for my own parenting when it comes to father christmas, i've not really mentioned him, the boy wonder sometimes talks about father christmas because he's made father christmases and snowmen or whatever when at the childminders during the day -- but he's not really asked any questions which has necessitated me saying much either way (but he's still young)
<solarcloud> Chortle, chortle. I remember one year I pull down santa's trousers and Said "That's not Santa, It's Uncle Boris !" .. To which he replied "Well santa's very busy and I'm just sub-contracted to help him out a little wil he's dropping off presents !", with his Prince Albert on full display ! ROTFL :D
<solarcloud> **pulled ... trousers.. while
<mungojerry> vistaprint have the worst business model
<mungojerry> it's like installing freeware containing browser addons you have to siable
<mungojerry> disable
<solarcloud> mungojerry, I always use http://us.moo.com/products/business-cards.html .. worx a treat !
<mungojerry> i'm doing calendars
<mungojerry> vistaprint have the best ones but lots of trickery and nastiness
<mungojerry> and you ahve to find promo codes etc or you get ripped off
<solarcloud> mungojerry, Is the calendar for business or home ?
<mungojerry> my mum
<solarcloud> http://www.snapfish.com/snapfish/photo-gifts/photo-calendars  .. you'll get emails every 2 months , but they are *not* nasty .
<mungojerry> truprint wasn't as nice
<solarcloud> Don't know truprint .. What about snapfish ?
<mungojerry> how much does it work out?
<mungojerry> vista was Â£8 although probably nearer Â£5.50 if i had ordered a week ago and chose 21 day postage
<mungojerry> the quality is really good
<solarcloud> how much does a calendar from snepfish work out at ? Is that what you are asking ?
<solarcloud> **snapfish
<mungojerry> yeah, hidden costs, postage etc
<solarcloud> No more than  a tenner, mate
<solarcloud> mungojerry,  is that alright for you ?
<mungojerry> yes, thanks
<mungojerry> i'll bear them in mind
<solarcloud> bookmark them at least !
<MooDoo> what about photobox.co.uk
<DJones> Argh, libre office is driving me nuts
<SuperMatt> what's it doing?
<DJones> Trying to get the print settings right so that a sheet I've got which covers 36 months will print on 3 pages with columns A&B the same on each page without it messing up the format of the other sheets in the spreadsheet
<DJones> Also doesn't help that some sheets are portrait and some are landscape
<solarcloud> AlanBell, Can you tell popey when you see him (not online atmo.) to get himself a copy of this weeks edition of MicroMart (Issue 1237 -5th December) as on Page pg32 it says in the printer buyers guide " ... hang-on.. a minute.
<shauno> don't you hate trying to copy&paste from paper.  terribly inefficient
<solarcloud> "if you're ;looking for a cheap and cheerful MFP , the Kodak C310 (Â£60) if you want a decent MFP with higher-tier features' .. in the buying guide.
<solarcloud> he did my head in Tuesday with his new printer search requests !
<SuperMatt> does anyone else get a problem similar to this: http://www.supermatt.net/MyContent/terminal.webm
<penguin42> oh that's a little odd
<penguin42> (oh and I think that's the 1st time I've watched a .webm - it's great!)
<penguin42> SuperMatt: I think it might be even weirder that the recording keeps going
<SuperMatt> I KNOW
<SuperMatt> it seems that everything keeps going really, except for the visuals
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Do you have another machine you can ssh into it from?
<SuperMatt> uhm, could do
<SuperMatt> what are you going to suggest?
<penguin42> something like a vmstat 1  while you do that?
<SuperMatt> right, well I did that in a terminal and opened a new one. the first terminal paused and then *jumped* to where it should be
<penguin42> yeh which is why I was wondering about doing that from outside the gui
<SuperMatt> uh-huh
<SuperMatt> gimmie a tick
<penguin42> tock
<SuperMatt> it keeps going
<SuperMatt> no pausing at all
<penguin42> ok, cool; other thought - did you add anything to your .bashrc/.profile etc?
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> the weird thing is that it'll be fine for a while, and then randomly it'll decide to happen
<penguin42> yeh they're annoying when they do that
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Does it happen with an xterm?
<SuperMatt> nope
<penguin42> what about other gnome apps?
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> just gnome terminal
<penguin42> what if there isn't another gnome terminal running?
<SuperMatt> it's happened to me before on a completely different PC
<SuperMatt> and there's no hangover in terms of config because I changed job
<SuperMatt> one tick, let me check that out
<SuperMatt> same again
<penguin42> ok, what happens if you try starting it from a command line in the first terminal just by typing gnome-terminal ?
<SuperMatt> same thing
<SuperMatt> wait, let me try something
<SuperMatt> guess what happens the very second I turn off transparency?
<penguin42> it stops being a problem?
<SuperMatt> yup
<SuperMatt> I noticed that when the gnome-terminal bug hits, the transition time for the "timed" background gets logger and stuttery
<SuperMatt> so it could be that the transparency causing an issue, or the background is doing it
<SuperMatt> changed the background and it's still happening, which means it's a gnome-terminal issue
<SuperMatt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/530094
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 530094 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "transparent background heavily delays gnome-terminal start up" [Low,Incomplete]
<SuperMatt> well great, it has just this minute decided to speed up again
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Is this related to whether the new terminal overlaps the old one?
<SuperMatt> it's back again
<SuperMatt> it's not due to overlapping
<SuperMatt> it can't be because it happens even when I have no terminals open
<SuperMatt> oh, and yes I am running the most recent nvidia drivers
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Do you gain any spew in .xsession-errors when you do it?
<SuperMatt> nothing :(
<SuperMatt> oh woe is me
<penguin42> SuperMatt: Have you considered just how nice a nice solid background would be?
<SuperMatt> NEVER!
<SuperMatt> brb
<SuperMatt> and I'm back
<dogmatic69> anyone got a quick easy way to download a list of files from apache file list page?
<dogmatic69> the directory listing page
<mgdm> wget can do that
<dogmatic69> rly
<dogmatic69> its just a single folder, no need for recursive behavior
<mgdm> wget can do that :)
<dogmatic69> mgdm: does it read robots.txt?
<dogmatic69> all I can get is index.html and robots.txt, nothing else
<dogmatic69> found a small bash script to do it.
<mgdm> dogmatic69: you can prevent it doing that. I did it once, I can't remember how, but it was trivially googleable
<dogmatic69> mgdm: I just used this https://github.com/eduardschaeli/wget-image-scraper/blob/master/scraper.sh
<solarcloud_3scre> Could be worse .. you could end up being like this guy :: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/dandy-goes-digital--biggest-collector-of-classic-comic-adam-teitge-tells-of-devastation-173314332.html
<czajkowski> directhex: know anyone who might be able to help https://plus.google.com/u/0/102921374554385564572/posts/K2kfbMddecN
<SuperEngineer> ow gawd - it's back again.  thanks heavens for the ignore list :)
<MartijnVdS> evening SuperEngineer :)
<SuperEngineer> eveninks MartijnVdS - hope all's well and warmish - feels like summer here!
<AlanBell> evening
<AlanBell> I appear to be still having lunch
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: on the wrong time zone again?
<AlanBell> um, mqyb3
<AlanBell> maybe
<AlanBell> my keyboard appsrs lrb be broken
<SuperEngineer> down the pub AlanBell? only appearing to be having lunch? - it's a good trick if you can get away with it ;)
 * AlanBell needs furtjher caffination
 * AlanBell is a tiny bit pished
 * AlanBell oges back to find the other Alans
<AlanBell> goes
<AlanBell> keyboard fail
<SuperEngineer> honest guv... it's the keyboard!
<AlanBell> yeah, it is
<AlanBell> night all o/
 * SuperEngineer sends virtual ps2 backup keyboard from cupboard
<SuperEngineer> this wee saw arrival of a new mandatory use expenses form from my company in xslx format
<SuperEngineer> 10 seconds later it was converted to xls - password protection removed and noew is useable ;)
<SuperEngineer> *now
<SuperEngineer> I wonder if they'll guess - they never caught on with old one being "converted" - I even tried to tell them!
<SuperEngineer> next month I change it to odf - let's see if that prompts a question from them!
<SuperEngineer> I've just noticed Gwibber hasn't updated anything since 1st December. Any known fails out there?
<solarcloud_3scre> dunno .. I use g-talk.
 * SuperEngineer investigates g-talk [& thanks solarcloud_3scre]
<jacobw> evening
<solarcloud_3scre> hi
<jacobw> how goes?
<andypiper> AWESOME obviously
 * SuperEngineer disappears to warm up. see yaz all later
<bigcalm> Evenin' all
<solarcloud_3scre> jacobw, bigcalm Hoydy .. you about ?
<jacobw> yes
<solarcloud_3scre> **howdy bit drunk tonite :)
<solarcloud_3scre> Wow . double post :)
<solarcloud_3scre> Are you attending any of the meetings on the other #channel in  #ubuntu-meeting at all ?
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<czajkowski> solarcloud_3scre: best to not interrupt the meeting :)
<solarcloud_3scre> czajkowski, What's it all about, then ?
<czajkowski> ubuntu membership
<czajkowski> so that person is in front of a membership board
<solarcloud_3scre> Membership is easy though.
<czajkowski> possibly one of the rmbs
<czajkowski> but you tend not to interject and ask random questions :)
<solarcloud_3scre> rmbs ?
<czajkowski> regional membership boards
<solarcloud_3scre> what approval are applicants seeking, exactly ?
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<solarcloud_3scre> I still have no clue what the diference is between an ubuntu member and an ubuntu wiki member ?
<czajkowski> well ubuntu membership means you're part of a team in launchpad
<cocoa117> is there a way to force remove already missing PV from LVM vg? i tried vgreduce --removemissing system, but it keep telling me it missing PV UUID, which I know already wiped it
<czajkowski> have gone through a proccess
<czajkowski> and anyone and everyone has a wiki page
<czajkowski> you're not an ubuntu wiki member
<czajkowski> no such thing
<Pendulum> solarcloud_3scre: Ubuntu members have access to things like @ubuntu.com e-mail addresses, voting in Community Council membership elections, and recognition of contribution to the Ubuntu community
<solarcloud_3scre> oh Ok .. but to join a team you just click the icon don't you ?
<solarcloud_3scre> .. I don't get it !
<czajkowski> eh no you are added to this team
<Pendulum> solarcloud_3scre: you can't join the Ubuntu Members launchpad team. It's restricted to people who have been approved by one of the Membership Boards
<solarcloud_3scre> what benefits does such a hierarchy offer ?
<czajkowski> solarcloud_3scre: to be able to sit on councils liek the membership board
<czajkowski> loco council, Community council
<czajkowski> all require you to be an ubuntu member
<solarcloud_3scre> v. odd .. seems different to the way I use ubuntu.com.
<czajkowski> you use a website
<solarcloud_3scre> yes.
<czajkowski> well that's just it
<czajkowski> you're using a website
<czajkowski> you're browsing a website
<czajkowski> this is very different
<solarcloud_3scre> and , your point ?
<czajkowski> perhaps better to understand when you've not been drining
<czajkowski> *drinking
<czajkowski> it may make more sense
<solarcloud_3scre> I'm just drinking coffee, mate.
<solarcloud_3scre> ... still haven't clue what change this offers as an ubuntu-ist ? Does this have /any/ affect on the software ?
<solarcloud_3scre> I give up.
<jacobw> ubuntu members typically do something in the development process
<czajkowski> jacobw: nope not at all
<jacobw> oh
<czajkowski> not all ubuntu members are devs
<solarcloud_3scre> & council members ??
<jacobw> by development process, i didn't mean writing code, i meant 'producing Ubuntu'
<solarcloud_3scre> Is this about governance ??
<jacobw> it's about community governance
<solarcloud_3scre> czajkowski, Is that right ?
 * jacobw â sleep
<czajkowski> it's all forms both community and development
 * solarcloud_3scre confused.
<solarcloud_3scre> How much time *must* you donate as a council-member ?
<czajkowski> it varies tbh
<czajkowski> *shrugs*
<solarcloud_3scre> is that a 'dunno' ?
<Pendulum> there's no minimum
<Pendulum> quality and consistancy is the factor
<solarcloud_3scre> Pendulum, So it's a higher HR deal, basically ??
<czajkowski> solarcloud_3scre: no it just varies tbh, given peoples available time
<solarcloud_3scre> & is this re-imbursed financially ?
<solarcloud_3scre> 4 expenses etc ?
<czajkowski> no
<czajkowski> it's voluntary
<solarcloud_3scre> So it's a higher HR deal, basically ??
<czajkowski> I have no idea what you mean when you say higher hR deal
<solarcloud_3scre> Human resources - deal.
<czajkowski> it's not HR...
<czajkowski> it's just getting involved in a community
<solarcloud_3scre> and what is the appeal process ?
<czajkowski> what do you mean?
<solarcloud_3scre> if you're rejected ?
<czajkowski> you can appeal it if you wish to the community council
<czajkowski> but I'd not start off applying thinking what if I get reject how do I appeal
<solarcloud_3scre> .. has anyone been rejected tonite ?
<czajkowski> no idea not watching the meeting
 * solarcloud_3scre is bemused by the whole event.
<Pendulum> solarcloud_3scre: if you're rejected, you try again. We generally try to give people feedback on what they can do to improve either their application or their contribution so that they get approved the next time they apply.
<solarcloud_3scre> .. certainly gamification has gone up a notch, then.
<solarcloud_3scre> https://plus.google.com/103093000923989045518/posts/aiHKqqiequT .. An New Ubuntu community ?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-07
<ammar_> hi
<ammar_> i have a problem can any body help me???
<Azelphur> ?ask
<penguin42>  -help is normally best for that - what's up?
<Azelphur> !ask | ammar_
<lubotu3> ammar_: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Azelphur> I really need to build factoids into my client so I don't continually get confused by different triggers :P
<ammar_> i have wireless usb card (lb-link) i want to use it with ubuntu but it doesnt work i installed the driver from the cd that came with the adapter put that didnt work
<Azelphur> ammar_: the usb stick came with Linux drivers?
<ammar_> yes
<Azelphur> that's cool
<Azelphur> hmm, dunno then. Maybe contact support for that product
<ammar_> when i write lsusb i get this
<ammar_>      1.       Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub    2.       Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0bda:8176 Realtek Semiconductor Corp.    3.       Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
<penguin42> stop!
<penguin42> please don't paste lots
<ammar_> sorry
<penguin42> ammar_: Use a pastebin, or I guess there is probably a lsusb line for just your device?
<ammar_> i guiss you mean this
<ammar_> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0bda:8176 Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
<penguin42> which version of Ubuntu?
<ammar_> i don not know
<penguin42> ammar_: Do you have a cog icon in the top right hand corner?
<ammar_> what is cog????
<penguin42> like a spiky circle
<ammar_> no
<ammar_> my ubuntu came with some program called reaver
<penguin42> ok, what does your screen look like - do you have a strip of buttons down the left hand side?
<ammar_> yes
<penguin42> and across the top what do you have?
<ammar_> i am using ubuntu 10.04 lts
<penguin42> ah ok
<ammar_> i fiound it
<penguin42> ammar_: So that's pretty old, it wouldn't surprise me if one of the newer versions had support
<ammar_> does it matter if its old??
<penguin42> ammar_: Newer Ubuntu has support for newer hardware built in
<ammar_> so i have to get a newer one
<penguin42> that would be my suggestion
<ammar_> thank you but i dont think i can because i live in syria
<penguin42> ah, from what I hear you are lucky to have any internet at all
<ammar_> thats right
<penguin42> ammar_: There may be people who have the driver for that chip working on older Uuntu's
<ammar_> linux is not popular os ih here no body uses it me my self use windows but i like to learn more about linux
<ammar_> penguin42 thank you my friend
<Azelphur> Anyone have any cool tricks for storing a lot of cables?
<Azelphur> and organising in some sane manner
 * penguin42 has mine in a large box in a big knotted pile
<penguin42> Azelphur: Velcro is a good thing
<Azelphur> velcro ties around the cables?
<penguin42> nod, for larger cables
<Azelphur> fun
<penguin42> you can get some premade velcro ties, you can also get some rolls of double sided velcro that you just cut up, that's cheaper
<Azelphur> I see
<Aivaras> If hdparam says that my ssd read speed is 6GB/s (cached) and 200 MB/s (buffered) everything is ok and ssd works fine in CD-rom place?
<Darael> Aivaras: Rather a delayed response, but: although many of #ubuntu's denizens are technical people, they tend not to be up in the wee hours of the morning.  #ubuntu is active pretty much 24/7, though.
<Darael> ...That first #ubuntu should have been #ubuntu-uk, in case that wasn't clear.
<Aivaras> yeah, point taken. :)
<Darael> Clearly some of us are occasionally, or we wouldn't be having this exchange :P
<Azelphur> OT but UK related question, anyone know how I'd fix this? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/December/2012-12-07-072842_503x658_scrot.png
<Azelphur> I want them to deliver to my "front" door ideally
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: offer delivery people beer/food to do it right? ;)
<Azelphur> haha, that's one way
<Azelphur> I was wondering if there was some official mechanism to get it changed
<Azelphur> I have Amazon shipping me something soon, wonder where they'll put it :P
<MartijnVdS> they come up to my door, even though my letter box is downstairs
<MartijnVdS> but that's PostNL :)
<Azelphur> ah cool
<Azelphur> stage 1: get letterbox, step 2: bribe postman
<RadiumCat> hi :)
<andylockran> morning all
<jacobw> ahoy hoy
 * jacobw pokes solarcloud 
<MartijnVdS> lots of clouds here
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :-D
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<andylockran> happy friday :)
<popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
 * popey had to get the kids to get me water and paracetamol this morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> I did the school run this morning. 1st person I saw was Katie Dodson. She asked how my head was and if there was anywhere in farnham I hadn't been yesterday.
<popey> haha
<MooDoo> you guys been party animals again?
<popey> i am not completely clear on how I got home
<popey> i think i got on a train at farnham and may have slept past woking
<popey> ooh, i have a graze on my hand
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha
<MartijnVdS> popey: Did you try to eat oranges from the trees in the street as well? :)
<popey> where do you think we live!?
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's what Jono did in Seville ;)
<popey> oh yes
<s-fox> morning folks
<MooDoo> morning s-fox
<s-fox> hi MooDoo
<s-fox> are you well ?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer, that chinese food was yummy
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> that was quite some lunch
<s-fox> maybe i am being super unobservant but has the youtube layout changed?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mornign AlanBell
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mrs TheOpenSourcerer will deliver me to the office just in time for the Office party :-)
<AlanBell> jolly good, wake me up when you get here
<MartijnVdS> s-fox: youtube has been changing a bit lately
<AlanBell> do we need a G+ community?
<MartijnVdS> who doesn't?
<christel> bless
<s-fox> thanks MartijnVdS , i wasn't completely sure...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh - popey remember the chap with the moustache in The Mulberry?
<TheOpenSourcerer> He's found me on Linkedin already!
<christel> have you been chatting up young men again TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> not me. Twas popey
<popey> hah
<popey> did you give him your card?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<s-fox> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi s-fox
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: No.
<popey> blimey
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't even remember telling him my name
<TheOpenSourcerer> Other than "Al"
<kvarley> My parents are looking for a colour laser printer that works with Ubuntu, any ideas? They currently have a Canon which is absolutely awful, prints one page then stops working all together.
<christel> "betty"
<TheOpenSourcerer> kvarley: I have been very happy with my Xerox 6130n
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's an old module but works fine.
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: HP ones work well
 * MartijnVdS has a CP1515n
<popey> neat!
<popey> http://www.office.xerox.com/printers/color-printers/phaser-6130/enus.html
<popey> "We no longer sell this product, but please check out its replacement. > "
<popey> http://www.office.xerox.com/printers/color-printers/phaser-6500/enus.html
<MartijnVdS> set phasers to stun!
<popey> 3.3/5 reviews
<kvarley> Thanks, I was considering HP as well MartijnVdS. They're the only brand I've had no problems with, always been plug and play with Ubuntu :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: Brother is good as well, make sure it supports their clone of Postscript
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders why he's feeling rather fragile today.
<brobostigon> hangover central <-------   , also.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I blame Alan
<brobostigon> which one ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any and all
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have just discovered my phone took loads of pictures of popey yesterday. I have no recollection of doing so whatsoever.
<popey> erk
<brobostigon> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> I feel a G+ album post coming up.
<popey> i took a photo of the road it seems
<popey> and the wall in the toilet
<brobostigon> again, lol.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did you have your calendar popey?
<popey> yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lovely isn't it :-)
<popey> oh, hang on
<popey> thought you meant my google calendar
<popey> no, is that what it is?
<popey> not opened it
<popey> oh, nice
<Azelphur> moved house didn't bring my desk, had to improvise somewhere to put it temporarily :P https://www.dropbox.com/s/ai1i3cdyxeo0bpb/2012-12-06%2005.44.07.jpg?m
<MartijnVdS> hey, I have a desk like that :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> but not in my kitchen
<Azelphur> kitchen is totally the best place for it
<MartijnVdS> TEA!
<Azelphur> xD
<pndemc> enough irc windows azelphur :P
<Azelphur> pndemc: nah, need moar
<pndemc> anyone know of a program like htop for monitoring live dl/ul stats?
<Azelphur> pndemc: nethogs
<MartijnVdS> iptraf
<pndemc> Azelphur, thanks, exactly what I was looking for
<Azelphur> pndemc: :)
 * czajkowski tickles gord 
<christel> czajkowski!
<czajkowski> christel!
<czajkowski> hey chicken
<christel> what are you up to pretty girl? are you all settled in your new house? :)
<czajkowski> narp heading down tonight in the office today
<christel> aha!
<czajkowski> all the stuff I dumped on the bed a week ago
<czajkowski> need to unpack
<christel> haha
<czajkowski> and make it all settled in
<christel> :)
<BigRedS> I want to run an irc daemon for 3-10 users. Any recommendations?
 * Azelphur shops around for a TV \o/
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: if anyone knows, it's christel :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, though she knows what to use for gajillions of users :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: imperial or metric gajillions? :)
<christel> i presume you dont need a lot of fancy "extras" for a tiny network so i'd probably go with ratbox :)
<BigRedS> christel: yeah, that's basically it - I want something relatively idiot-proof and I don't need to run more than one node or do any management
<BigRedS> I can directly punch misbehaving users...
<BigRedS> thanks!
<christel> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now I'm feeling vaguely back to normal - I have started thinking about Curry...
<brobostigon> yummy
<BigRedS> didn't they go bust?
<BigRedS> Hah, from ratbox config : /* REMOVE ME.  The following line checks you've been reading. */
<BigRedS> havent_read_conf = yes;
<davmor2> MooDoo: Boo!!!!!!
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: arrrrrgh
<davmor2> MooDoo: muhahahahahaha I'm just that evil ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i know
<davmor2> AlanBell: there is an app called xeoma that might take your fancy with your funky webcam :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: I have no idea how much it is
<michael__> dasilva1672
<andylockran> phpls
<mungojerry> BigRedS, does it need to be irc? isn't there some zeroconfig service that allows this without irc
<BigRedS> mungojerry: Not necessarily, it seemed the simplest option, though
<BigRedS> also, we're not always on the same local net, so it can't rely on zeroconf
<mungojerry> rasp pi would be useful use case for a mini irc server :)
<BigRedS> we all work at hosting companies - the server and all the clients are 1u boxes
<BigRedS> when running screened cat5 cable, anyone know what you're supposed to do with the drain wire?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: connect to the metal outer part of the connector
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: or, if you use all-plastic connectors.. you got the wrong connectors and you just snip it off, and your screen will be useless ;)
<BigRedS> haha, cool. ta! I guess that if the connectors are plastic there's no help by attaching one end to ground or anything?
<dwatkins> wow, Sony are full of fail for how difficult it is to register a TV to use with Lovefilm.
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: not really, I guess
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Samsung is just as bad (with several Dutch on-line film things)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: cool. I'm several people down a chain of questions, want to find the fullest answer I can
<BigRedS> so I'll disregard the conflicting google results, and go with the consistent IRC one :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: The "all metal" wire is ground, which should be connected to the metal bit of the connector, which should connect to "Ground" on one (or more?) devices
<BigRedS> yeah, so I was wondering if there's no metal on the connector whether it'd be worth just attaching it to the (presumably grounded) case at one end
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: http://store.freenet-antennas.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=468
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I guess I shouldn't be surprised
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: you'd use those
<BigRedS> I recall earth loops being a problem in grounding both ends, but can't really remember. There's good reason I don't go anywhere near hardware :)
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: earth loops.. ugh :)
<MartijnVdS> don't remind me
<BigRedS> hahaha
<MartijnVdS> :(
<popey> :( ?
<MartijnVdS> Only World of Goo works in my Steam beta
<MartijnVdS> VVVVVV has no executable
<MartijnVdS> SpaceCheck is b0rken in interesting ways
<MartijnVdS> Spacechem*
<MartijnVdS> and TF2 shows a black screen (audio works though)
 * MartijnVdS installs TF2 Beta, maybe that works better
<MartijnVdS> (9.4MB/s \o/)
<popey> MartijnVdS, http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/12qs6z/steam_for_linux_its_here_deb_in_the_link/c6xf19p
<MartijnVdS> popey: I blame my Intel graphics
<popey> ahh
<BigRedS> I get the black screen when I play TF2 on Intel
<BigRedS> or try to play
<MartijnVdS> 9.7MB/second
<BigRedS> Which is a bit of a shame - my laptop was the thing I was hoping to get Windows off
<MartijnVdS> â¥ Fibre
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I run it on my desktop, but I don't want an ATi/NVidia card
<MartijnVdS> directhex: how did you get TF2 to work on Intel graphics?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: (as you mention in that Reddit post)
<dogmatic69> lol, Lord Sugar vs Donald Trump http://storify.com/loveandgarbage/modern-culture-in-microcosm-a-sociological-survey
<BigRedS> I'm still not sure I believe Trump's account is real
<directhex> MartijnVdS, i just ran it. do you have the s2tc package installed?
<directhex> BigRedS, it's verified real, he's just a buffoon
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I have libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:amd64 and libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:i386
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, it just still doesn't seem believable
<directhex> MartijnVdS, which intel chip?
<MartijnVdS> [    18.959] (--) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) Clarkdale
<directhex> huh, clarkdale is pretty modern
<MartijnVdS> it's an i3-530 - so it's the "IntelÂ® HD Graphics" before they got numbers
<directhex> fails in game or before then (e.g. main menu)?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Before - I don't even get the "man with a valve on his face" thing (only the sound)
<MartijnVdS> I just get a black screen after clicking 'Play' in steam
<MartijnVdS> maybe if I reboot.. uptime is almost a month again 8-)
<andybrine> anyone here from the uk and have problems playing cotent on 4od?
<IdleOne> you probably need to install flashplugin-installer
<IdleOne> I can't test, not in the UK
<MartijnVdS> directhex: it's the driver I think.. Big Picture mode also crashes
<MartijnVdS> s/also//
<directhex> did you enable the intel driver backport repo?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I'm on 12.10 -- do I have to?
<directhex> hm, probably not. probably
<MartijnVdS> where can I find it?
<directhex> i'm on my desktop right now, can't check
<directhex>   sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates
<MartijnVdS> hmmm, libva updateses
<andybrine> thanks everyone
<andybrine> i thought this irc was idel for a moment
<andybrine> i have flashplugin-installer already installed
<andybrine> flash works ok
<andybrine> its just programs on 4od which is weird
<MartijnVdS> Is there an error, or does it just "not work"
<andybrine> yeah there is an error one sec ill just get it
<andybrine> it just comes up with "A digital rights error has occured, please see help section"
<andybrine> ad the help section just shows flash player
<andybrine> it is vague i know
<MartijnVdS> DRM errors.. is your clock set correctly?
<andybrine> you mean just the standard clock?
<andybrine> that is working fine
<MartijnVdS> andybrine: is it set to automatically sync time with the internet?
<MartijnVdS> andybrine: (click on the clock -> settings)
<andybrine> yes, it is at the moment
<andybrine> does that need to be turned off?
<MartijnVdS> no, that's good :)
<MartijnVdS> then I don't know why it's not working
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<andybrine> ok, no worries
<andybrine> thanks
<penguin42> cool, my PCIe->(Parallel & 2xserial) card has arrived from China
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: how.. old-fashioned :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I prefer to think of it as traditional
<MartijnVdS> quaint ;)
<penguin42> odd aspect ratio card, it's depth is defined by being just long enough to get to a 1xPCIe socket, and it's height is defined by the size of a Parallel port connector
<MartijnVdS> it's probably only one chip?
<penguin42> 3, one main one and a little maxim on each serial port
<MartijnVdS> separate UARTs?! really?
<penguin42> no, they're line drivers; 3v-5v
<penguin42> http://www.ti.com/product/max3243
<MartijnVdS> but serial is -15V - +15V
<MartijnVdS> oh wait
<MartijnVdS> "Somewhere between -3 and -15 to somewhere between +3 and +15"
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think the main chip (Moschip MCS9901CV-cc) does PCIe to parallel, serial, a USB and an ISA if you wire it all up
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: noice
<penguin42> there is a theory that it works with Linux, but the datasheet seems to be online if not
<MartijnVdS> "Your next Album Day delivery is Friday 07 December, 2012. As a non-UK member, delivery will take a few days longer, depending on postal efficiency."
<MartijnVdS> \o/ thealbumclub.com
<penguin42> well, there is a CD with a tar for Linux with a cryptic set of source
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: 2.2-kernel-ish?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, 2.6.31
<MartijnVdS> oh wow
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: my experiences are .[D. different :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Commented code with GPL headers intact
<MartijnVdS> Wow.
<penguin42> (We'll find out if it works later!)
<celesteh> hello, i'm on ubuntu studio and using jack with supercollider. i want to record my desktop with audio to make a little youtube movie.  what should i use to do the recording and how? recodmydesktop crashes when i try to run it
<MartijnVdS> popey: knows about screencasting software
<bigcalm> popey: your blog could do with a search :D
<bigcalm> http://popey.com/blog/2009/08/25/getting-back-into-screencasting/
<bigcalm> Surprised that it's a 3yo entry. I thought you'd blogged about it a bit more since
 * MartijnVdS geeft kinky een Ubuntu-Cd
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> wwe :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: he has.. there's other software now
<MartijnVdS> Kazam!
<MartijnVdS> that's the name
<bigcalm> Pow!
<bigcalm> Zap!
<bigcalm> Biff!
 * dwatkins imagines bigcalm as Batfink
<bigcalm> With my wings of steel
<bigcalm> Did he have a lisp, or was that the side-kick?
<bigcalm> Of course, I could be thinking of Count Duckular
<dwatkins> or Danger Mouse
<dwatkins> I don't think Penfold has a lisp, though.
<MartijnVdS> ((((lisp))))
<dwatkins> Lots of Incredibly Silly Parentheses
<penguin42> well the parallel port works with a hack
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jacobw> (i(hate(lists)))
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o czajkowski
<jacobw> quack quack quack quaacccckk!
<einonm> andypiper! How the devil are you?
 * andypiper blinks - forgot the IRC app was running...
<andypiper> I am well, sir - just back from Le Web
<einonm> excellent, good to hear
<daubers> y
<daubers> Oops
<solarcloud_3scrn> What happened to Popey ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> HE Made moderator https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/107299007624972266094
<xnox> well the current top post needs moderation.
<solarcloud_3scrn> xnox, Which post are refering to ? A link to post here from that webpage is easily done :-)
<xnox> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105285234860592935043/posts/Py9QpQ1uDEh is offensive content.
<solarcloud_3scrn> not really.
<xnox> it's not what ubuntu community stands for.
<xnox> solarcloud_3scrn: http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct * Be considerate.
<xnox> Being considered to all humans, including bill gates.
<szymon_g> hi
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'm just stoked about all the communitie on there ..
<solarcloud_3scrn> it's like building a company.
<solarcloud_3scrn> xnox ... this project may actually save the desktop :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-08
<andylockran> get akk
<andylockran> hey all even
<penguin42> evenin
<andylockran> how goes things?
<penguin42> yeh ok
<MooDoo> hello all
<Azelphur> can anyone explain how this device works? http://www.screwfix.com/p/deedlock-dorcas-8-12v-ac-dc-electric-rim-lock-release-mortice/19768
<MooDoo> electro magnetic?
<Azelphur> yea I gathered that, but is it like a dead bolt?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's when Usain expires. A dead Bolt.
<Azelphur> lol
<MooDoo> Azelphur: If it's like the one at work they are used in conjuction with normal locks, you just unlock the door and have it locked with the electric one
<Azelphur> MooDoo: oh, I was interested in something fully automated, so that I could unlock my houses front door with my hpone
<Azelphur> phone*
<MooDoo> Azelphur: smarty pants :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<jacobw> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<jacobw> how do MooDoo ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I just wish valve would release portal and half-life for linux already
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> I really want to play a deep single player game right now
<SuperMatt> with lots of shooting
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: Serious Sam
<BigRedS> Lots of dumb enemies, even more ammunition
<bigcalm> :D
<BigRedS> works on Linux
<SuperMatt> I know, but it's not engaging
<BigRedS> yeah, it's just wandering around shooting and sledgehammering things
<Azelphur> hmm, my washing machine cycle has finished and the barrel is still full of water...
<Azelphur> it's a trap :o
<solarcloud_3scrn> I was wondering what communities people have joined on google Plus recently ? .. It's spreading like wildfire !!!
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: clogged drain? drain exit higher than washing machine? (siphon effect?)
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> it didn't do it first time I used it, I'm giving it another run atm to see if that fixes it
 * jacobw is trying weechat
<bigcalm> Tum te tum
<ammar_> hello every body
<ammar_> i need some hlp
<haqe17> Im getting this error when trying to start firefox (and other software) from the terminal: "Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyInvalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1" im running 12.04
 * penguin42 yaaaawwwwwnnnnns
<MartijnVdS> \o Pendulum
<MartijnVdS> hr
<MartijnVdS> penguin42
<MartijnVdS> pen<tab> isn't even enough anymore!
<penguin42> quiet isn't it
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Just slept for 2 hours.. *yawn*
<penguin42> that sounds good
<MartijnVdS> I think work was a bit too intense the past week ;)
<MartijnVdS> with the big release, and "post-release bugfix day" coinciding with the company-wide "One-day bugfix day"
<penguin42> ah, big release on a Friday?
<MartijnVdS> Wednesday
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> Wednesday night/Thursday morning
<penguin42> haha, startup ?
<jacobw> welcome back to conciousness
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: nah, big database change and coworkers that need to be able to access customer information when they call, it was all properly scheduled.. we just forgot about post-release bugfix day
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: and how "post-release day" was already a management-designated "let's fix some other bugs"-day
<penguin42> oh that's unfair
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: to be fair to the project manager, this was the first management-ordered "bugfix day" (it's supposed to become a monthly thing)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Sounds like the thing to do is line up a pile of bug fixes before hand ready to checkin (depending if everyone else does the same :-)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, next time.. :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they had a list a week beforehand, most were 2-liners :)
<MartijnVdS> (from the "why didn't you report the bug, instead of working around it for months" school)
<penguin42> perfect
<MartijnVdS> what? the annoying school of unreported bugs? ;)
<MartijnVdS> or the pre-announcement?
<penguin42> I meant 2 line fixes :-)
<MartijnVdS> :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: My first fix on the project I joined a couple of months back was a single !   - it took a few days to find that it was needed though :-)
<MartijnVdS> those are the nasty ones
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: An interesting way to learn a big new codebase
<popey> evening all!
<solarcloud> hi popey.
<solarcloud> you thoughts on google communitiesw so far ?
<popey> solarcloud, its forums
<solarcloud> popey, 'phpBB' I don't think so, matey.
<popey> it functions the same as a forum
<popey> one where everyone is pre-authed
<penguin42> It seems a little odd; they've not got it working on mobile yet (which is where I mostly read G+ in the week) and they have an option for monitoring a forum or not, and it's binary but enables monitoring on about 3 different things
<MartijnVdS> google and social always has some.. startup problems :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Hey hey, Orkut was one of the earliest on the block
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: they bought orkut
<MartijnVdS> they didn't _make_ it
<penguin42> touche - didn't know that
<MartijnVdS> Buzz was their own first try :)
<MartijnVdS> I think
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, Whaqt does 'pre-authed' mean ... pre-authored or pre-authenitcated ?
<MartijnVdS> authenticated
<solarcloud_3scrn> how is that a bad thing ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> I thnk popey, misses the point [ big time ].
<MartijnVdS> I think popey understands it
<MartijnVdS> But some people just aren't forums people
<penguin42> yeh, I've tended not to like forums, although if it integrated well with g+ that I check every day on my mobile then it would work ok
<solarcloud_3scrn> having used phpBB .. for a long time .. I think that G+ communities is more of a blog stream than a forum. Forum are crap place where you get spammed .. I have never been spammed on G+ yet !
<MartijnVdS> I just replied to one post in the Ubuntu G+ community, now I get spammed with the red "1" every time
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. & it will save the desktop too !
<MartijnVdS> which I don't like.. as an inbox-zero kind of person
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Can you mute that thread like you can on the rest of G+ though?
<MartijnVdS> and you can mute it, but then you mute the person who asked the question, not the thread
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. the notifier .. is not a spam device .. if the cooker alarm went off .. Would you regard that as spam ?
<MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3scrn: I only want it to go red if there's something important
<MartijnVdS> solarcloud_3scrn: replies to the same question as I answered don't count as important to me
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. Yjust dont like the colour, that's al.
<solarcloud_3scrn> *al.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **all
<MartijnVdS> no, it's the "There's something important!" status of it
<Darael> MartijnVdS: Another inbox-zero kind of person?  I meet so few!
<MartijnVdS> Don't shout that something is important if it's not :)~
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh, I thought G+ you could mute a thread
<solarcloud_3scrn> my keyboard has mucked up, bye.
<Darael> Well, that was abrupt.
<MartijnVdS> Darael: I keep it as empty as possible..
<MartijnVdS> Darael: I can't stand unread/unprocessed mail/messages
<Darael> MartijnVdS: I acknowledged a long time ago that I couldn't read everything, but only because so much of it was mailing lists &c.  So I filter all that out, and I can generally keep the main inbox clear of unread stuff.  I'm just surprised that so few other people even /try/ to keep theirs clear.
<Darael> Hmmm.  Come to think of it, a multi-target bayesian filter would be really very cool.  Not just spam/notspam, or even the thing gmail has now (possibly in labs) where it gives broad category labels, but arbitrarily many categories.
<penguin42> Darael: Then wire it up to something that sends sarcastic replies
<Darael> penguin42: For certain categories.  Yes.
<solarcloud_3scrn> the email 'box' is just a repository, Whether you've readi it now, or reading it later it makes litle diference. Just so long as you have a copy :)
<Darael> solarcloud_3scrn: Debatable.  Quite a lot of the information contained in emails degrades in usefulness over time.  Therefore it is better to be up to date.
<jacobw> forum threads trend towards being repetitve
<solarcloud_3scrn> that is just the difference of current and not current . It is just a case of 'keeping a record' for me.
<jacobw> they get to so many pages, so new participants read only the last few pages and have the same conversation over and over again
<Darael> solarcloud_3scrn: Which is why things that do not go "out of date" get read or shunted out of the inbox.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Why be at the mercy of an 'inbox number' anyway . it's just a number !
<solarcloud_3scrn> I have 70,000 unread emails . who gives a funk ?
<Darael> Different attitudes.  Filtering out things that don't need to be dealt with reasonably soon means that the unread-count for the main inbox becomes a things-I-haven't-dealt-with-yet-that-I-probably-ought-to count.
<jacobw> your filesystem does
<Darael> jacobw: Be fair.  It doesn't care if they're read or not, merely how many of them there are.  Well, I suppose there's an argument for maildir usage where they move from new to cur, but...
<jacobw> :)
<jacobw> i'm being silly
<Darael> solarcloud_3scrn: I may have that many in neatly sectioned off places, but they stay /out/ of my inbox.  It makes it much easier to keep track of whether anything new has come in.
<solarcloud_3scrn> k
<Darael> jacobw: I gathered.  I reserve the right to take silly at face value if that entertains me more than reading it as intended.
<jacobw> :D
<jacobw> i use my inbox for mail not part of another process, if i develop a process for handling a kind of mail, then i filter it to another mailbox
<SuperEngineer> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do   ...ho-hummm -here we go again
<jacobw> free software and privacy are seperate issues to my mind
<solarcloud_3scrn> SuperEngineer, is this about jono's post ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> or should I say jo-NO's ! post.
<penguin42> jacobw: Probably true; although there is a certain bizarre/cathedral thing about it - would a feature like the one he's complaining about ever gone into a traditional open source project?
<SuperEngineer> free software and privacy - as in life - carry the unwritten warning "user beware".. unlike other OS's where "user watch out - you're in danger" to my mind
<popey> <solarcloud_3scrn> I thnk popey, misses the point [ big time ].
<popey> wut?
<SuperEngineer> ..and solarcloud_3scrn - yes
<solarcloud_3scrn> gogle comunities does not equal forums.
<popey> it very much is like a forum
<solarcloud_3scrn> like is not the same as phpB.
<popey> with a set of users already authenticated
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: why does popey miss the point?  he was the first one on the point!
<popey> it's very much like phpBB, with a set of authenticated users
<solarcloud_3scrn> authentification is irelevant to gogle . they just want to share stuf.
<popey> a centralised system, unlike a lot of disparate forums
<solarcloud_3scrn> soz my keyboard is playing up.
<jacobw> IMO, Stallman's views are based on concerns about many issues disguised as an objection to a single practice
<popey> some people will migrate to it
<popey> i know I'll be more likely to use google communities than ubuntu forums
<penguin42> popey: I think it'll be interesting to see what happens on the mobile view; the problem I've had with G+ is that following a 'topic' based page (e.g. ScienceSunday) ends up dominating the stream so I can't see the status chats from everyone, and I'm not sure how that will change/work with communities
<popey> or any other random forums
<popey> the fact that it's integrated into a social network I'm already on, is a bonus
<popey> i almost _never_ sign up for new forums anywhere
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, if you lok at somthing like the linuxbasix.com forum and the goggle commuinity forum they are worlds apart.
<jacobw> i.e. the free software is bad if it's associated with anything that Stallman has concerns about it
<popey> no, they aren't
<popey> they are http forums
<solarcloud_3scrn> in terms of useage they are worlds apart.
<popey> there are categories, there are notifications, there are moderators
<popey> I don't know what you mean
<popey> "usage" as in "you use a browser"?
<solarcloud_3scrn> wel then go lok at the forums that i mentioned :)
<popey> i dont need to
<popey> I'm 40, I know what forums look like
<solarcloud_3scrn> great, u know it al, then.
<solarcloud_3scrn> gotta go.
<SuperEngineer> well that's one way of running away!
 * solarcloud_3scrn fixing keyboard :(
<SuperEngineer> btw popey I could have sworn you were "27" - I've been "27" for nearly 2 decades :)
<penguin42> popey: Ah, as ancient as me
<SuperEngineer> ...well, nearly 3 decades actually [he says giving too much away]
<SuperEngineer> aww come on someone - say "surely not!"
<jacobw> surely not
<SuperEngineer> thankyou
<jacobw> i wish to FSF was less doom mongering
<jacobw> s/to/the/
<dwatkins> I'm in two minds about it, jacobw - on the one hand this sort of thing needs pointing out, but on the other, I have issues with the way RMS said what he did.
<dwatkins> as you say, scaremongering, paraphrased.
<jacobw> free software protects users from malicous software / [because of the inclusion of the shopping lens] ubuntu has become a counter example
<SuperEngineer> is the code for Ubuntu suddenly not available then?
<jacobw> that just doesn't follow, integration with a proprietary service does not make free software malicous software
<shauno> I'm not sure I'd agree.  if my mac did the same thing, I can just imagine the headlines
<penguin42> jacobw: I agree it's scare mongering, but I basically agree with the sentiment
<jacobw> i don't like because i don't want the performance of my launcher to depend on the responsiveness of web services
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: that is the nearest thing to a sensible objection so far... good thinking
<jacobw> i don't have moral objections to graphical shells :|
<penguin42> My main problem is that it makes something that was previously just a local thing now go external; and thus it's only by thinking you know you're potentially leaking something - and that's a dangerous precident
<jacobw> i don't see these kind of architecture as local operations going external
<jacobw> s/these/this/
<penguin42> jacobw: Well in the previous version stuff you typed in the search box was entirely local; someone upgrading or someone who didn't know about the feature would blindly carrying on thinking stuff was local
<popey> <jacobw> i don't like because i don't want the performance of my launcher to depend on the responsiveness of web services
<popey> it shouldn't be
<popey> the scopes are asynchronous
<popey> if it is slowed by the shopping results then it's a bug which should be filed
<jacobw> popey: the dash updates each time a result comes back from the query, it's not responsive during that time
<popey> what isnt responsive?
<jacobw> popey: while testing quantal, i found that if i searched for something in the launcher, while the dash was searching amazon it was slow to backspace or switch to an application
<popey> i can't reproduce that here
<jacobw> popey: i haven't tested this since quantal was released, i follow the reasoning that scopes being asynchronous shouldn't block the shell on a query but it still requires multiple updates of the dash for each search
<SuperEngineer> some words of wisdom found a few secounds ago: http://randall.executiv.es/bestsearchintheworld
<SuperEngineer> hmm *seconds
<SuperEngineer> time to go eat heating replacement home made stu - see yaz all later
<salzb> t
<penguin42> v ?
<jacobw> i have a strange problem with virt-install, i'm trying to use --location to get the initrd and kernel by http, the files download to /var/lib/libvirt/boot but disappear as soon as virt-install exits, so libvirt can't use the files to boot the VM
<hazrpg> hey all \o
<hazrpg> hows things?
<hazrpg> Anyone good with looking at ALSA issues? Cos for some reason, no matter what audio input device I use, I'm getting a lot of white noise: http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=e0c6fb7e10624bf7691aa2b405cf0d3968e56c63
<brobostigon> evening hazrpg
<hazrpg> brobostigon: good evening ^_^
<brobostigon> :)
<hazrpg> brobostigon: long time no see :)
<brobostigon> hazrpg: yes, definatly. :)
<hazrpg> brobostigon: how's things?
<brobostigon> hazrpg: good bits, and bad. and you?
<hazrpg> brobostigon: same...
<dwatkins> does anyone know of a good set of browser-controllable mains plug adapters for UK plugs?
<brobostigon> hazrpg:  :) :(
<hazrpg> brobostigon: currently living in EG at the moment, so trying to be a bit active on ubuntu-eg more recently (just cos it helps to know the people for meetups, etc ^_^)
<popey> dwatkins, browser controllable?
<popey> dwatkins, what do you hope to control?
<brobostigon> hazrpg: EG ?
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, so I can press buttons on an internally-served webpage (in my flat) and turn on or off a light, printer, monitor etc.
<hazrpg> popey: think he's referring to plugs that can be turned on/off via a browser, am I right? dwatkins
<popey> oh i see
<dwatkins> yeah hazrpg
<hazrpg> not sure I know of any, but I'll have a quick look
<dwatkins> I have a remote control for mains socket adapters, but the reception isn't so good, and I tend to lose the controller
<dwatkins> I've looked around but can't see any for home use - we had one at work in my last job, but I imagine it was quite expensive
<dwatkins> I guess the alternative is to write my own with X10 adapters
<dwatkins> I was looking at http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/categories/X10-Home-Automation/X10-Computer-Control/ previously
<brobostigon> !ubuntu-eg
<dwatkins> #ubuntu-eg, the Egyptian Ubuntu channel? ;)
<brobostigon> ah, :)
<brobostigon> i couldnt put my finger, on which country it referred to.
<dwatkins> ahh, I just looked it up here http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/diverse/doc/ISO_3166.html
<brobostigon> :)
<dwatkins> (note: that standard has the United Kindgom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as 'GB' not 'UK' as commonly used in domains, but you know that anyway)
<hazrpg> dwatkins: yup, I knew ^_^
<hazrpg> dwatkins: how about this? http://www.audon.co.uk/usb_digital/np8800.html
<dwatkins> nice, hazrpg - thanks
<hazrpg> only downside is it needs to be plugged into a computer...
<hazrpg> however, other devices can be shut off using it though
<dwatkins> hmm, seems to require a USB commection to a [running] computer
<dwatkins> ah yes, as you just wrote
<dwatkins> I think I'll investigate X10 under Linux, as I can attach a transmitting device to a mains socket and to my server and have slave receivers around the flat.
<dwatkins> I already have a homeplug adapter to get ethernet in the bedroom.
<dwatkins> If I'm lucky, I can have a webpage I can load on my phone, laptop or VPN'ed (or ssh-connected) device and turn things on or off from there or from the command line.
<hazrpg> hmm, I found this... but it might be a pain to get working on anything other then an iOS device - http://store.apple.com/uk/product/H7338B/A/belkin-wemo-switch?afid=p228|GBUK&cid=AOS-UK-CSE-GoogleBase
<hazrpg> dwatkins: however, that does essentially what you want it to
<dwatkins> http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialX10SmartHomeNetworking.html has some interesting links
<dwatkins> thanks hazrpg - I'll look into it too
<hazrpg> interesting
<dwatkins> hazrpg: looks like there's a baby monitor in the same range, too: http://www.belkin.com/uk/null-Belkin/p/P-F8J007
<hazrpg> dwatkins: heh. Also found this, which is a bit odd to see, but could do the job too... just need a bundle of SIM cards though: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Fashion-Cellphone-Phone-PDA-GSM-RC-Remote-Control-Socket-Power-Switch-DD-/160785762731?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D150799966758%26ps%3D54
<hazrpg> basically, its a switch that is controlled over GSM, so you send it a text message... or a phone call
<dwatkins> hazrpg: that's a pretty cool idea
<dwatkins> opens up new possibilities for a wrong number
<hazrpg> xD
<hazrpg> ooo, haven't clicked the link yet, but I just saw something that said ethernet controlled and coding...
<hazrpg> dwatkins: this might be the bad boy you want: http://www.maplin.co.uk/power-management-system-534754?c=maplin&utm_source=gcs&utm_medium=gcs_search&utm_campaign=N05KF&utm_content=Energy+Saving+Products
<dwatkins> some of that description is amusingly badly translated
<dwatkins> oh neat
<hazrpg> apparently you programme it via USB, and control via ethernet... sounds good1
<dwatkins> yeah, aside from being Windows only it does look pretty good
<dwatkins> perhaps some USB snooping will change that
<hazrpg> yeah, I just noticed that snagg too
<dwatkins> no worries, could be useful for work (save me reaching down under my desk to enable mains adapters)
<hazrpg> shouldn't be too hard to hack though, one would assume it just sends some usb headers about
<dwatkins> yeah
<hazrpg> heh, yeah USB snooping like you said ^_^
<hazrpg> half tempted to get one myself now ^_^
<dwatkins> haha, you know a site isn't particularly well written when the search field specifies to only use one term
<hazrpg> heh yeah
<hazrpg> one way to stop xss though I guess
<hazrpg> although, not fully... " AND " might still break it
<hazrpg> dwatkins: what site are you on that allows only one word?
<dwatkins> hazrpg: https://www.letsautomate.com/10075.cfm
<dwatkins> I don't seem to be able to get to the page with this on, but it sounds like what I'm after, assuming I can control the devices from Linux: X10 PC Starter Kit CM12U (Serial & USB, 2 x 2026UK Dimmers) No Software
<hazrpg> brobostigon: sorry, just spotted that... yeah EG = Egypt :)
<dwatkins> I think that's the same as on http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/
<hazrpg> dwatkins: if it helps, use google as your search engine instead... just add "site:www.whatever.com" at the end
<dwatkins> hazrpg: I tried :) thanks
<hazrpg> ah lol
<brobostigon> hazrpg: :)
<dwatkins> ooh neat, they also sell bayonet fittings
<hazrpg> bah, still can't figure out whats happening with my input :/
<hazrpg> dwatkins: that the kettle lead power plug?
<hazrpg> dwatkins: I see a few of those that can be controlled via ethernet... but wasn't sure if you wanted anything like that
<dwatkins> hazrpg: I'm looking at http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/products/X10-Computer-Interface-Serial-CM11-or-CM12.html and  http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/products/Marmitek-X10-Appliance-Module-AM12U.html
<dwatkins> they're just mains adapters, the first to attach to the PC to send X10 commands around the ring main, the second is a single appliance module which I can attach to anything with a 13-Amp plug.
<brobostigon> led zeppelin, bbc2, :)
<dwatkins> yay for iPlayer, brobostigon :D
<dwatkins> cheers
<brobostigon> dwatkins: :)
<hazrpg> brobostigon, dwatkins: yay for vpn & iplayer ;D
 * dwatkins sniggers
<brobostigon> hazrpg: :D
<dwatkins> I have squid on my netbook/server at home as our office traffic gets routed via another country, hazrpg
<dwatkins> squid as in the proxy, obv.
<dwatkins> I don't have a squid on my netbook, that would be surreal.
<brobostigon> one talented drummer, whoever he is.
<hazrpg> dwatkins: i knew ;)
<dwatkins> I forget I don't need to specify such things here.
<hazrpg> dwatkins: :P
<hazrpg> why is it getting routed to a different country?
<hazrpg> seems like an odd thing to do, unless the headoffice was elsewhere
<brobostigon> robert plants voice, isnt as good as it was, but it aint bad.
<hazrpg> brobostigon: indeed
<brobostigon> hazrpg: :)
<brobostigon> hazrpg: there is much clearer decline, with people like, ian anderson.
<dwatkins> hazrpg: yeah, we're just a small satellite office, the bigger one is in the other country, so we just have a direct link to it and its it for our internets
<dwatkins> s/its/use/
<brobostigon> jason bonham, :)
<brobostigon> shows, what he father taught him.
<brobostigon> his*
<dwatkins> alternatively, I could get this and a cheap switch: http://www.amazon.co.uk/X10-POWERFLASH-UNIVERSAL-INTERFACE/dp/B0018D7ROK/
<brobostigon> jimmy page, is still the blatant showoff, he used to be,
<dwatkins> haha, playing an electric guitar with a bow always amuses me
<brobostigon> reminds me how some people play a flatsteel.
<brobostigon> i wouldnt mind, him being my drum teacher.
<brobostigon> however, as i found out, my current drum teacher, did some work for jethro tull, late 90's, that not bad cradentials.
<dwatkins> indeed it ain't
<dwatkins> I always wanted to meet the drummer from Ozric Tentacles, until I saw them live on stage and they were completely hammered.
<brobostigon> ouch
<dwatkins> they managed surprisingly well, in fairness
<dwatkins> this was around the time they stopped appearing, though
<dwatkins> I gather one of them went on to have a fairly reasonable solo career
<brobostigon> unlike, some occasions with liam gallagher.
<brobostigon> ah.
<brobostigon> although, it would cost a fortune, to have someone like, bonham or perry, to teach, that is if they would.
<dwatkins> a friend of mine teaches the children of some famour people piano
<dwatkins> she comes highly reccomended by other famous people, which helps
<dwatkins> s/famour/famous/
<brobostigon> definatly.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: this i can play, vaguely. the song that is on now, just made not as fast as him.
<dwatkins> nice, brobostigon
<dwatkins> I assume it's not just ascending power chords like it just looked like
<brobostigon> dwatkins: it is mostly a basic thre beat, with some interesting fills.
<dwatkins> what's the song called?
<brobostigon> three*
<dwatkins> cheers, I shall redress my ignorance by buying an album
<dwatkins> (I was about to do that anyway)
<brobostigon> dwatkins: watch his right hand.
<dwatkins> I've recently been tidying up my music collection, tagging things correctly and buying the CDs I didn't own, so this fits nicely with this project.
<dwatkins> down/up/down?
<brobostigon> then listen, he is playing plus the bass, in pairs of three.
<dwatkins> yeah
<dwatkins> any album reccomendations?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i like the three set, early days, compilations.
<dwatkins> thanks, wasn't sure as in many cases the track order of original albums is carefully chosen, whereas 'best of' albums are just a bit random.
<dwatkins> hahaha, I can't watch 'The Relic' on iPlayer on my iPad for 'legal reasons'
 * dwatkins puts Die Hard with a Vengance on instead
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dwatkins> c ya brobostigon
<dwatkins> likewise
<brobostigon> good night dwatkins
<dwatkins> aha, excellent: http://eclipsehomeauto.com/cm15a_on_linux/cm15a.shtml and http://somethinginteractive.com/blog/2009/05/06/guide-x10-cm15a-ubuntu/ detail X10 applications for Linux.
<dwatkins> hazrpg: you may find those links interesting, looks like they should work with this http://www.uk-automation.co.uk/products/Marmitek-X10-CM15Pro-Computer-Interface-with-Transceiver.html
<penguin42> heck that stuff ain't cheap
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-09
<dwatkins> true, penguin42
<dwatkins> I was hoping for something about a fifth the price
<dwatkins> I'd consider building it myself, but I'm not comfortable with messing with mains voltages.
<penguin42> yeh ditto
<penguin42> almost cheaper to use rack-pdus depending on the number of ports you needed in one place
<dwatkins> penguin42: I considered that, havn't looked up prices yet, but if they're in the low three-figure range, it might be about the same
<dwatkins> we had a really simple mains splitter on the network in my previous job, never saw it, but I used it to power stuff up and down from the other side of the atlantic a couple times
<penguin42> dwatkins: What you trying to control?
<dwatkins> penguin42: just curious really, I have a remote for a VPN unit, light and print server (i.e. nothing high-wattage) and wondered if I can control them via a web browser or similar.
<dwatkins> What I have is essentially this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Remote-Control-Socket-Set/dp/B000H9HU70/
<dwatkins> (but doesn't look awful)
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> dwatkins: The interesting stuff with the 'control it via a web browser' is what to connect that control to
<penguin42> http://www.audon.co.uk/usb_digital/np8800.html isn't cheap
<dwatkins> indeed, penguin42 - and windows-only
<hazrpg> dwatkins: *clicks* link
<dwatkins> So, my options are: continue to use the remote (which has poor range), spend a hundred or so pounds on an X10 solution (and have fun setting it up to run under Ubuntu) or something else
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yeh you want to get a spare remote and a soldering iron; that way you don't mess with the 240v
<dwatkins> penguin42: good call :)
<dwatkins> I could setup some relays on a USB port
<dwatkins> or opto-isolate them or something hoopy like that
<penguin42> or lego with a plunger onto the button :-)
<dwatkins> haha, guess what my Arduino case is made from...
<penguin42> dwatkins: So normally the problem is whether you connect the DSL router to the PDU switch and whether that lets you screw up and turn your connection to said PDU switch off
<hazrpg> dwatkins: lego ;)?
<hazrpg> hmm, just thought!
<hazrpg> why not just get a regular on/off switch device... jimmy it together with some wires to the off/on mechanism and wire directly to an arduino ;D
<penguin42> dwatkins: The 8 port APC masterwitches are about 400gbp which is I guess a bit OTT
<hazrpg> surrogates just came on fox-movies (via nilesat in egypt)
<hazrpg> always an odd film to watch - but bruce willis non-the-less
<penguin42> hazrpg: With dirty string vest?
<hazrpg> penguin42: *raises eyebrow* Hmm?
<penguin42> hazrpg: Bruce willis; he normally has a dirty string vest somewhere in most of his films
<dwatkins> penguin42: yeah, APC switches seem to be rather pricy. I'm not looking to switch the DSL router on or off (that stays on permanently) just a few devices I don't always use.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Yep
<dwatkins> hazrpg: this is my phone charger/holder at home: http://i.eho.st/pjxg6ekh.jpg
<dwatkins> it has a cable restraint so I can just slide the phone in
<dwatkins> (and out)
<hazrpg> penguin42: ah, heh, possibly
<hazrpg> dwatkins: nice ^_^
<dwatkins> cheers
<dwatkins> It took a couple iterations to get it right.
<hazrpg> dwatkins: what made you want to do it?
<hazrpg> other than having the phone tilted the right way to quickly view it
<dwatkins> hazrpg: I got fed up with having to find the cable every evening, made a stand-up stand and learned a few things, then made this one after seeing the wooden 'alarm clock music player' style phone stand
<dwatkins> I should really take a photo with it showing the time in the correct orientation
<hazrpg> heh, interesting
<hazrpg> wish I had some lego lying around... always wanted to make a bed-side dock, mainly cos the official dock is no longer available
<dwatkins> A colleague gave me a box of it, her kids weren't using it :D
<dwatkins> hazrpg: a slightly improved photo: http://rowla.dyndns.org/images/alarm_clock.jpg
<hazrpg> dwatkins: heh, nice photo quality there! Looks good in that. :D
<hazrpg> dwatkins: sorry it took so long, was up doing video editing for a video I was responding to a question for in #ubuntu-eg ... took longer than I thought it would... but hurray its done! \o/ http://youtu.be/xEGtn_Cezyo
<MartijnVdS> \o
 * solarcloud_3scrn has opened his present of a new apple UK keyboard.
<solarcloud_3scrn> :)
<dwatkins> hazrpg: no worries, nice video demo too.
<dwatkins> solarcloud_3scrn: the wired or wireless one?
<solarcloud_3scrn> dwatkins, Wired .. funny usb interface .. but seems to work alright.,
<solarcloud_3scrn> just been on the phone to my dad .. he 's happy for me :D
<solarcloud_3scrn> It is a good time to de-clutter this weekend .. I did all of mine last night.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Funny thing was I stopped every half an hour and did a Video diary to my cheap camera (10.2 MP) as a kinda vlog about thoughts.
<solarcloud_3scrn> very inspiring :)
<dwatkins> I did a lot of decluttering recently, it helps me focus when there's less stuff in the way.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Google plus seems 2 be missing photos this morning ... :(
<solarcloud_3scrn> plus there is a seven hour gap in between posts .. dont you just hate that ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'm in 62 communities already :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> mornin brobostigon
<dwatkins> solarcloud_3scrn: you mean the gap where the US is asleep? ;)
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'm on gmt time.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning popey
<solarcloud_3scrn> Let the shoveling commence .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G0YSBuw3i0g#!
<popey> gosh, he's a wide chap, and no wonder if he eats that lot
<popey> however, i did discover via that video a nice advert for ocado iphone app :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, As a moderator for google communities, (as I am one myself for the 99% commune)  .. I was wondering if there has been any 'tasks' that you've been appointed to-do. either from the community or google ?
<AlanBell> they have only existed for a couple of days
<popey> solarcloud_3scrn, not really
<popey> we haven't set any rules in place yet, or roles
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, true, I'm loading gigabytes of info onto my communities as we speak :)
<popey> but i have rejected some posts
<solarcloud_3scrn> me too.
<AlanBell> gigabytes of info ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> I do like the D.I.Y. c-groups.
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Yes, my external hard drive said on Friday " Aww crap, I'm in overdrive for the next couple of days while I share all those pics/vids/ and tracks that have been dormant for so long " ..  :-)
 * solarcloud_3scrn wonders if 'anonymous' have woken up to this new platform , yet ?? anyone seen anything ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Slightly strange that I see invites for groups hat I am already in though .. were do I file a bug ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> **where
<AlanBell> I think you are seeing slightly more in the communities feature than I am
<AlanBell> it is just a way of posting and discussing stuff with "people interested in topic foo" rather than "people I know"
<AlanBell> but apart from a different audience selection methodology it is just the same as before isn't it?
<AlanBell> just been catching up on the new lens privacy flamefest
<AlanBell> anyone got a few minutes to test bug 1087873
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1087873 in unity-lens-github (Ubuntu) "lens privacy feature does not work on all lenses" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087873
<AlanBell> basically install unity-lens-github from the software centre and flip the privacy switch in settings and see if it stops working
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Personally feeling part of a community is the best news so far this Month . I'm just stoked in a big way. I put an advert in the national newspaper to join the local community (3 papers) .. So I expect big disruptance next week.
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. but it's like the Hotel night receptionists book will say .. nothing happened. probably
<solarcloud_3scrn> breakfast was a Yorkie bar today :)
<jacobw> DIY c-groups?
<solarcloud_3scrn> jacobw, Yeah like DIY biuld your own rig/computer G+community .. if I see the link I'll post you.
<jacobw> i see :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> have to say that it is a bit slow though .. for example when i see a sub-category it says "50 new posts" but when i click on the category there is only 10 or so.
<solarcloud_3scrn> CyanogenMod is a massive community cosidering it's all opensource .. 10,000 members ! Go opensource !!
<jacobw> there's a lot of large open source communities
<andylockran> morning all; I could do with some help on setting up 5.1 sound on Ubuntu 12.10 through HDMI.. it's not outputting sound and not sure where to look.  pavucontrol doesn't have a 'test speakers' option
<penguin42> hmm I wish there was a firefox-esr package
<jacobw> penguin42: i thought there was
<jacobw> penguin42: just googled and found a ton of 'how to install firefox esr in ubuntu: wget firefox-esr.bz2'
<penguin42> yeh, don't see any packaged versions in the repo, and a bug where someone asked for it is a won't-fix-we-haven't-got-time
<penguin42> could just download the upstream
 * penguin42 wants it so he can run pentadactyl again
 * jacobw uses vimperator
<jacobw> penguin42: why pentadactyl?
<penguin42> jacobw: I've been using pentadactyl for a while and I can't quite describe what's missing, but it feels like a lot
<penguin42> heck, the ESR timescales are still only about a year - not that extended
<jacobw> penguin42: what's missing in vimperator?
<penguin42> jacobw: Let me get back to you on that; I've been using vimperator for a few days and I keep kind of swearing at it and not quite figuring out exactly what's missing
<AlanBell> RIP Patrick Moore http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20657939
<penguin42> :-(
<jacobw> :-(
<GentileBen> Nooooo!!
<GentileBen> AlanBell, did you just update his Wikipedia article?
 * jacobw thinks AlanBell isn't faster than the Wikipedians
<penguin42> first change was apparently at 12:59
<dwatkins> :(
<SuperEngineer> n0000! an life through & of intelligence is always a loss - please, let this not be true
<SuperEngineer> ...fare thee well, Patrick
<SuperEngineer> just found a cute way of creating a unique [but not memorable] password:  clean your keyboard while pooter is active âº
<jacobw> pwgen -Bsy 12
<GentileBen> There's no Wikipedia article for vajazzles. Why?
<AlanBell> dunno, ask in #wikipedia perhaps
 * AlanBell still wants someone to try the github lens
<SuperEngineer> does ubuntu have a ppa or similar where I download a darn heating engineer?  I've just replaced the thermo-couple & still no heating!... me diggy no further into boiler as me no like unwanted loud bang type noises
<SuperEngineer> or maybe a ppa where I can find out the cost the 2 halogen heaters no in use to ward off jack frost
<SuperEngineer> *now
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No but if you get enough machines and try and rebuild the repo it should keep you warm
<SuperEngineer> lol
<GentileBen> AlanBell, will it send all your github searches to Amazon? >_>
<SuperEngineer> hey - if Ranolph Fiennes can put up with -90 I guess I survive [just need to nick his polar gear & I'll be ok I guess]
<jacobw> it's -11 overnight here in Bavaria
<GentileBen> YOLO Toure is on for Kompany.
<penguin42> seems to have got a bit warmer here, quite a reasonable +4c in Manchester; that's abotu 5c warmer than it was earlier in the week
<dwatkins> it's been fairly warm in Edinburgh too, although it's set to go down to about -2'c on Monday night.
<dwatkins> no, I lie, -4'c
<penguin42> dwatkins: We had that on early Thursday morning http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip?f=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e3m4ejlcqe3
<penguin42> but yes next week does look like it's going to be mostly around 0 perhaps pulling itself a few C above around the middle of the day
<SuperEngineer> hmm & anyone seen next week's *snow* forecast? - not good without heating
 * SuperEngineer thinks: this will be good for the soul - remind me of what less fortuante peeps are always going through
<SuperEngineer> *fortunate
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Of course you could just get the boiler engineer in
<SuperEngineer> Pendulum: you think I haven'r been trying!!!!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: If you're really desperate Gritish Bas have been advertising that you can supposedly ring them up for one off fixes
<SuperEngineer> yep.  that's what I was thinking as well
<AlanBell> GentileBen: nope, it sends all your amazon searches to github as it happens
<GentileBen> AlanBell, are you watching the derby?
<AlanBell> the what?
<GentileBen> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20657350
<AlanBell> no, not into sport
<AlanBell> didn't the derby used to be about horses or something?
<GentileBen> AlanBell: not since about 1890.
<GentileBen> It now means "sporting contest between two teams based within the same city".
<GentileBen> There are exceptions though - big cities like London have about 20 teams, whilst radioactive wastelands like the north-east don't have many teams.
<GentileBen> Eg. Newcastle-Sunderland is known as the Tyne-Wear derby despite nobody else caring.
<GentileBen> The more you know~~~
<penguin42> jacobw: OK, things missing (you may know of similar shortcuts); Pentadactyl has s and S that start a google search (in the same or next tab), there is also ctrl-z that suspends it for the current tab so that all key strokes are passthroughs
<christel> /1/3
<christel> er
<jacobw> penguin42: i'm only using o to open in current tab and t to open in new tab followed by the search prefixes ('google' foo, 'amazon' foo)
<jacobw> penguin42: i want the passthrough to be easily accessible
<penguin42> jacobw: nod; I guess the ctrl-z is intended to be like backgrounding vi
<jacobw> penguin42: gmail is the use case mentioned in the faq, also you can scroll up and down slashdot articles and comments with j and k
<penguin42> jacobw: So what's the equivalent in vimperator of the ctrl-z in pentadactyl?
<jacobw> penguin42: the vimperator faq says it's ctrl-z, but it doesn't work for me
<penguin42> jacobw: Hmm, me neither
<Azelphur> I think my new flat is designed to troll postmen or something
<penguin42> non-existent postcode?
<Azelphur> I don't have a postbox in the main area, there's a notice up saying he should deliver it direct to my door, but my door doesn't have a letterbox.
<Azelphur> nope, I have a postcode and my flat exists on most registries
<penguin42> ok, a friend has lived in a few new-build flats where the postcode system hadn't caught up yet
<Azelphur> haha
<jacobw> you need a US style mailbox to the side of your door
<penguin42> or a shredder
<jacobw> unfortunately ignorance isn't an excuse to not paying bills
<penguin42> damn
<Azelphur> need a new door really, for some reason my door has big weak-ass windows in it
 * penguin42 tries to avoid Windows
<SuperEngineer> As much as I am ashamed to ask.. anyone up to date with facebook [in particular re Facebook/Gwibber]?
<jacobw> a door running windows ce sounds terrible
<SuperEngineer> Gwibber has stopped updating f/b
<Azelphur> indeed
<jacobw> SuperEngineer: use Pidgin/Empathy for Facebook IM (it's XMPP based)
<SuperEngineer> I have succesfully re-authorised it just in case
<jacobw> SuperEngineer: or at least, it's accessible by XMPP
<SuperEngineer> yeh - gwibber set up for XMPP a/c - and has been for agres - no trouble in past but now no updates...
<SuperEngineer> ...Empathy might well be worth a go though
<SuperEngineer> thanks jacobw
<jacobw> a/c?
<SuperEngineer> oops - just closed xchat by mistake :(
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: hmmm - empathy for chat only - I was looking for something that shows postings
<SuperEngineer> g
<SuperEngineer> wibber stylie
<jacobw> like the web interface? :)
<SuperEngineer> exactly
<SuperEngineer> there used to be a facebook app [like an early desktop widget] in 11.something - not there in software centre now - boo hiss
<SuperEngineer> [using 12.04]
<jacobw> isn't this the use case for unity web apps?
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> is it viable / reliable to install on 12.04
<SuperEngineer> ?
<SuperEngineer> fogger for instance
<jacobw> ah, i forgot it was new in 12.10
<jacobw> i've been using mint for a while
 * SuperEngineer also has Mint installed [for Wine & that wonderful google photo app whose name dare not be mentioned ;) - SuperEngineer doesn't want to expose a Windows "structure" to the outside world on main op sys
<SuperEngineer> ...so would fogger be ok anyone... sounds promising but seems very java script based
<jacobw> you can use those things with unity too
<jacobw> fogger looks like an experimental project
<SuperEngineer> yeah... but can I use webapps on 12.04?
<jacobw> you can install the preview from the webapps ppa
<SuperEngineer> repository ppa:webapps/preview  that one?
<jacobw> yeah
<SuperEngineer> cheers - will give it a go - thanks jacobw
<jacobw> o/ popey
<popey> o/
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: well that was a fail - thank heavens for ppa-purge
<jacobw> i don't think the unity team intends to backport any of the dependencies of webapps
<SuperEngineer> time to say bbs - need to clear down a few things methinks
<SuperEngineer> can someone have a look at this please http://paste.ubuntu.com/1421307/
<SuperEngineer> synaptic, software xwnre, software sources et al are all now snafu'd
<penguin42> so what does line 3 of that look like?
<penguin42> it does tell you exactly where the error is
<SuperEngineer> well that was I was expecting it say but line 3 = 1 word: ain
<SuperEngineer> [and that's not a spelling mistake
<penguin42> can you pastebin that whole file
<SuperEngineer> all of the above software, synaptic etc give onlt that clue
<popey> the file is malformed
<SuperEngineer> *only
<popey> its quite clear
<SuperEngineer> popey please make it as clear to my brain as it is to yours
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Please pastebin the file
<popey> E: Type âainâ is not known on line 3 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/webapps-preview-precise.list
<popey> line three of the file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/webapps-preview-precise.list is malformed
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: All those things share the same file parser, and that error is telling you exactly the error - now lets see the file and we'll be able to spot it
<popey> paste /etc/apt/sources.list.d/webapps-preview-precise.list and we will see line 3 has erroneous characters
<SuperEngineer> will do
<SuperEngineer> hmmm... that *was* the file I pasted
<penguin42> ..307 just has the error - not the actual file
<mfraz74> I have squid-deb-proxy running on a server, is there an easy way of removing redundant packages from its cache?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: My guess is that you pasted into that file from somewhere else (on the web?) and the previous line ends with an    m     and it should really be a single line that ends in   main
<SuperEngineer> oops - checked the pastebin - ignore that last comment please
<SuperEngineer> paste coming up..
<SuperEngineer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1421333/
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Just delete that 3rd line
<popey> penguin42 wins :D
<SuperEngineer> as simple as that!?
<popey> yes
<popey> line should start "deb" or "deb-src"
<popey> not "ain" :)
<penguin42> popey: Well, I'm disappointed the previous line didn't end with an m
<popey> half a star then
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: All lines in these files should normally start with   deb   or deb-src   or be a # comment, if they aren't then they're normally just plain wrong
<SuperEngineer> so delete "ain" or add an "m" to make it main or deb main or deb-src main or...
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Just delete it
<SuperEngineer> will do
<SuperEngineer> ...and by the way - you're heroes, thankyou
<SuperEngineer> popey & penguin42 - I'm sure you'll both be surprised & amazed to know that synaptic, s/w sources & s/w centre are all now working aok ;)
<SuperEngineer> thankyou once again
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: No problem; trust the error messages - they're normally pretty good
<SuperEngineer> [even more so if one looks at the orignal msg, not the secondary generated in synaptic! [that's the one I wronly posted]
<mungjerry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<mungjerry> looking for most lightweight linux distro for a eee pc 701 that works well OOTB - suggestiosn?
<SuperEngineer> don't think I'll be trying the webapps preview though as that's what snafu'd
<penguin42> mungjerry: Puppy linux is one I've heard of but not tried
<mungjerry> using lubuntu 11.04 which needs an update, so wondering if anything else is better
<mungjerry> have to say that puppy is a bit ....strange
<penguin42> mungjerry: How much RAM & storage have you got?
<mungjerry> prefer a *buntu or debian derivative. i see cruncheee is no longer
<mungjerry> ram 2gb
<mungjerry> although cpu well slow
<mungjerry> storage 4gb i think
<penguin42> heck, 4GB hmm
<mungjerry> i know there's a few 701 owners usually in here
<penguin42> mungjerry: If you can get a bear Ubuntu onto it and then add MATE it should work reasonably well
<brobostigon> i use debian and gnome3 on my eeepc 900, works well, but on the 701, debian would work well, but a lighter DE, like xfce.
<mungjerry> any processor scaling issues?
<brobostigon> mungjerry: not found anyhting yet,
<mungjerry> maybe its unique to 701
<brobostigon> no idea.
<mungjerry> debian stable or testing brobostigon
<brobostigon> mungjerry: i am using sid,
<brobostigon> mungjerry: testing should work fine,
<mungjerry> any reason not to use sid/unstable?
<penguin42> mungjerry: There is a clue in the name
<mungjerry> :P
<mungjerry> but its debian...
<brobostigon> mungjerry: at the time, gnome3 wasnt in testing, so had to go with sid. now that gnome3 is in testing, it doesnt really matter.
<penguin42> mungjerry: It'll be fine most of the time, but then you'll get something fun (the one I remember was an accidental swap of uid/gid fields in /etc/passwd)
<SuperEngineer> right - let's get on with the sunday system clean-up now, once again - bbs
<mungjerry> i'm mainly gonna run chrome, irc and irc server on it
<brobostigon> mungjerry: but unless you can fix pretty much anything that will go wrong, dont go with sid, use testing,
<brobostigon> mungjerry: ah, a server, use stable then.
<mungjerry> i probably don't use it enough to need new stuff, running 11.04 atm for exaplone
<mungjerry> might settle for inbetween
<mungjerry> brobostigon: one more quicky - any problems with wifi driver in debian?
<mungjerry> is it included etc
<penguin42> you normally have to install the -firmware packages for a lot of stuff in debian, but once you've done that it's normally ok
<brobostigon> mungjerry: not on the 900, no, the etheros driver is open and in kernel. but you need a fairly recent kernel.
<mungjerry> thanks chaps
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> Ok.. now missing the central heating, still not found a "repairmyboiler" ppa - so cold my fungers art missung the keybird kays!
<SuperEngineer> [so no change there âº]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Got eletric heaters?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: yup - & the foresight to think about how much 2x halagen heaters are gonna cost by the time all is fixed
<jacobw> evening
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I've still not figured out the relative costs; sure gas ch is cheaper per kwh of gas v kwh of electric, but I'm assuming those heaters are more direct as to where it's needed
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: thanks sounds comforting to the wallet
<SuperEngineer> [I think I'm more annoyed [for now] that I couldn't fix it myself!  -the temperature predicted if not fixed soon is just an added insult
<penguin42> is it a modern boiler or an old one?
<SuperEngineer> old one - maybe time to replace
<SuperEngineer> [it's the third fail in as manty years
<SuperEngineer> ! fixed the last 2 myself tho
<lubotu3> SuperEngineer: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<SuperEngineer> oi - l3 - who asked you to join in!
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: We have a modern one; not a chance of us fixing it, and we've had to get the people in a few times in the space of 3 or 4 years
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It has the heating pump internal, it failed with a spectacular leak after a year, and there's a pressure problem somewhere and it doesn't like coming on on cold mornings sometimes (Gah it's a boiler!)
<SuperEngineer> ooo - nice modern condensing voiling that freezes when it get's cold - that's what I'm trying to avoid ;)
<SuperEngineer> let's all play get lubboto annoyed
<SuperEngineer> !
<SuperEngineer> ! you're stupid
<SuperEngineer> [didn't dare respond to that - I win! lubotto
<penguin42> don't taunt the bot
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<shauno> for you a crunchy, and taste good with ketchup
<SuperEngineer> crunchie + ketchup... nom nom!
<jacobw> wut
<shauno> I can't remember where that comes from now (besides the paraphrased tolkien); "Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: you need to ask lubotu the answer to wut!
<jacobw> !wut
<jacobw> :(
<jacobw> oh, he's shy. he PM'd me
<SuperEngineer> ..me thinks it's surrendered
<shauno> or it was wise enough to rewrite the rules :)
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: what did it say? "don't taunt me - the others are doing enough to confuse me already"?
 * SuperEngineer sees people already adding new rules to lubotu just to account for those from other planets ;)
<SuperEngineer> and if anybody wonders why the sillyness... I'm celebrating getting a snafu'd system back
<SuperEngineer> ...thanks to help from this here channel and it's people
<dutchie> long time no see #ubuntu-uk
<dutchie> how have you been?
<SuperEngineer> btw lubotu3 says... Sorry, I don't know anything about "you're stupid" - I rest my case ;)
 * SuperEngineer stops the taunting
<SuperEngineer> o/ dutchie
<SuperEngineer> which reminds me - where's the MartijnVdS - hope you're ok
<solarcloud_3scrn> jacobw, Here is that DIY computer rig community I was on about earlier :: https://plus.google.com/communities/114451196902016891873
<jacobw> solarcloud_3scrn: thanks
<solarcloud_3scrn> k
<bigcalm> Hey kids :)
<bigcalm> peep peep
<jacobw> hey bigcalm
<AlanBell> popey: http://www.sorrysap.com/
<popey> yeah
<popey> thats just as bad as the windows #droidrage tbh
<AlanBell> it is
<AlanBell> http://v6.openerp.com/node/1291 interesting article about it though
<AlanBell> I am not a fan of negative marketing in general these days
<dwatkins> Anything which challenges SAP is a good thing, imho, AlanBell.
<dwatkins> source: I use a SAP-based support ticketing system at work
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-02
<Azelphur> wtf, arrived home to find this in my mailbox. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyxhml2mopblpvv/2013-12-02%2000.06.14.jpg
<Azelphur> suddenly, random blue cloth things.
<daftykins> micro-fibre?
<moreati> Azelphur: looks like a micro fibre cloth
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I never ordered a micro fibre cloth though xD
<daftykins> looks a tad ridged to be, actually
<Azelphur> only thing even semi-related is that I ordered some t-shirts recently, *shrug*
<Azelphur> but they all already arrived
<moreati> druken ebay? any emails that mention micro fibre?
<Azelphur> don't drink, and no emails xD
<Azelphur> seems to have a return address, Apt 10 Galileo 40 Ryland Street, Birmingham, UK, B16 8BS
<Azelphur> I wonder if that's a company or something
<Azelphur> North ocean trading ltd apparently o.O
<daftykins> hmm the plot thickens
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> Azelphur: ebay seller by the looks
<Azelphur> link?
<daftykins> 'happy-elife'
<xnox> I wonder if I have managed to securely erase my hard-drive. will try restore tomorrow.
<Azelphur> daftykins: nope, never ordered from this dude xD
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.es/itm/50s-Unisex-Vintage-Steampunk-Hand-Made-Leather-Wrap-Retro-Goggles-Sunglasses8810-/321171079040
<daftykins> get your steampunk glasses nao
<Azelphur> haha
<daftykins> and clean them with a handy blue cloth!
<Azelphur> I wonder if one of my friends recently ordered one, and had it shipped to the wrong address
<shauno> hm, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221224816093  ?
<Azelphur> yea I noticed that
<Azelphur> xD
<shauno> that's quite random, to be honest
<Azelphur> very random
<shauno> usually when it happens to me, it's because I ordered something off dealextreme, and it took so long to show up I forgot it existed
<shauno> which is fun.  I like surprises
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> i hope you get this ref
<Azelphur> yea, I've had dx take like 2 months to deliver
<daftykins> if you were in, i'd have totally gone... <Bane> Well hello, Mr. UPS man.
<shauno> reminds me, I'm still waiting for a cable to show up from china.  it's been almost 3 months now.  but I didn't bother shooting for a refund because it's <$3
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> but I might send him another email just to annoy him
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> just don't Wing the Wong #
<shauno> I do like getting stuff from china, they seem to have everything.  but it does make projects go sooo slow
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> i've also had stuff next day from there - wonder why it's so variable
<shauno> hah, 3 months isn't bad memory; we ship the parcel to you on Sep-02-2013 by regular post,it will take 26-45 days arrive Ireland usually.
<arsen> hm
<arsen> Azelphur  what have you done! i'm going coin crazy :D
<Azelphur> arsen: haha
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> arsen: how goes the mine?
<arsen> i've managed to fabricate a ~3 primecoins a day from some random kit, but i'm looking at investing into a LTC mining lump, couple of GPUs running for a few months
<arsen> seems much more profitable.
<daftykins> and so the addiction begins
<daftykins> arsen: call me when you have a 3 foot beard and you're out on the street :D
<arsen> its interesting, technically you can pay for some GPUs inside of a month, but the interest in LTC could be its downfall for non-billionaire rig buyers
<quem> hey. anyone here who has set up minidlna?
<arsen> daftykins  - take a peak at LTC hardware comparisons, i think you'd be interested to play around :P
<daftykins> i dunno i'm paying Â£50/month on electric for just me in this place already :D
<shauno> but think how much you'll save on your heating bill?!
<arsen> yeah, gas goes down
<arsen> :D
<shauno> someone should make an electric kettle that uses a miner as the heating element
<arsen> seems like with the top end cards, they pay their way in eleccy quite easily
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> since it first appeared i shrugged it off since i didn't understand it and never looked into it really
<daftykins> sort of goes down besides "buying Apple shares" as the thing i would've liked to have done had i known, but of course i didn't
<daftykins> :>
<shauno> it's a weird one because it constantly seems crazy.  like if you'd bought in a month ago, you would have doubled your money.  but at the time, buying at $3-$500 seemed insane
<GentileBen> You're all up terribly late before a work day.
<GentileBen> <-- has annual leave
<GentileBen> Go to bed, all of you.
<shauno> I have to be up at 5am.  it hardly seems worth it now
<GentileBen> The same bed if necessary. I'll make the cocoa.
<GentileBen> Why 5am, shauno?
<shauno> I start at 6, and assuming I actually sleep, 5am would be my target for shower & transport
<GentileBen> What do you do?
<shauno> wait for the screen to beep, and then phone someone up and tell them what beeped
<GentileBen> Ah, you're a prison rodeo clown.
<shauno> that actually sounds a lot more interesting, so I'll go with that
<daftykins> and here's shauno at work http://cdn10.mixrmedia.com/wp-uploads/girlybubble/blog/2010/11/dog-in-a-shirt-and-tie-and-glasses-630x472.jpg
<daftykins> sorry i just saw it in another channel and it seemed apt :<
<daftykins> shauno: although you strike me as a retriever
<shauno> that's almost as bad as the actual pictures ;)  http://f.cl.ly/items/3W1N26360N3m1a2e3t1f/IMG_1455.JPG
<daftykins> that ratio of tongue to monkey seems off
<shauno> yeah.  it has a very funky face
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> is that bear still in your place?
<shauno> yup
<shauno> although it's now wearing jeans, which is a tad more respectable
<daftykins> have you ever been tempted to put it in a window to freak out passers-by?
<daftykins> at night with a light behind
<daftykins> hahaha
<shauno> it solved the "I don't fit these anymore, why do I keep washing them and then trying to put them on" loop
<shauno> I think if carrying it home didn't freak people out, sticking it in a window won't go far
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> hm, more awkward news on the EU vs UK front.  I might have to start taking the idea of an irish passport a bit more seriously
<quem> you're irish but living in the UK?
<shauno> british but living in the republic
<quem> why do you need an irish passport precisely?
<shauno> because I plan on moving to the continent in the new future, so the UK being silly with their position re: the EU makes me nervous
<hamitron> stops the foreigners flooding in though
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> well I guess that's it.  I haven't lived in the UK since 2001.  I kinda value my ability to move around as the winds take me
<hamitron> I can see why it is a pain for someone who wants/needs to do that, yeh
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> it becomes oddly one-sided because in our minds, there's no such thing as british immigrants
<shauno> foreigners moving to the UK are immigrants.  boo, hiss, immigrants.  british moving elsewhere becomes ex-pats.  not emmigrant/immigrant
<hamitron> well, tbh, I would have nothing against another country turning whoever away
<hamitron> but a pain for some
<hamitron> but I refuse to learn Polish
<hamitron> unless I decide to move to Poland ofc
<shauno> I don't blame you.  it's not an easy one.  slavic languages are crazy
<hamitron> I struggle with English
<hamitron> ;D
<shauno> most of yorkshire does.  we're used to it ;)
<hamitron> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
<hamitron> ;p
<shauno> my little sister lives up that way.  she does the chameleon thing with accents, so it's quite a surprise to hear
<hamitron> I wouldn't wanna sound like a southern pussy anyway
<hamitron> ;D
<shauno> I've wound up with an odd accent where northerners think I sound southern, and southerners think I sound northern.  so I can't win either way
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> you don't belong anywhere!
 * hamitron sends shauno to Ireland
<shauno> heh, I pretty much don't.  which is why I value being able to keep moving :)
<hamitron> I wish I had the ability to move sometimes
<quem> what do you guys think of english spoken with a swedish accent?
<hamitron> if she is good looking, very nice
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> it's usually more understandable than parts of the UK :/
<quem> what if she is a he and you don't care about his looks either way?
<quem> :p
<hamitron> then I am neutral
<hamitron> haha
<quem> good enough.
<shauno> I lived with a swedish guy for a while; his spoken english was fine, but he couldn't spell to save his life
<quem> oh dear.
<shauno> I just have one standout memory of him asking me how to spell "cloudy"
<shauno> at which point we decided I should probably read his paper before he turned it in
<quem> funny thing, i can listen to french and write it down with decent spelling, but i can understand very little of it.
<quem> it was the only part of french class i was any good at.
<hamitron> probably nothing worth understanding anyway
<hamitron> ;)
<quem> hehe
<shauno> I have this problem with french too.  were were basically taught french with an english accent
<hamitron> I've only ever come across German and Japanese text, that I want/need to understand
<quem> ah
<shauno> particularly with french & german, we have this mindset that the only time you actually try to impersonate the accent is when you're making fun of them
<hamitron> haha
<quem> i'm half french and can't even pronounce my very french name right.
<quem> and i've had dimwitted francophones ask me if i'm aware my name is french.
<hamitron> shauno, are you good at languages, if you travel?
<quem> (my surname is FranÃ§ois.)
<shauno> you can study for as long as you like, but if you can't shake this aversion to the accent, it'll be useless
<shauno> not really.  I find a surprising number of them vaguely readable; enough to find my way around (although I still laugh at ausfahrt)
<shauno> but I can't speak them at all :/
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> don't you have to learn Irish, to get one of their passports?
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> hah
<shauno> I learnt mna & fir, by force.  that's all I've ever needed
<hamitron> errrr
<hamitron> wtf are they? ;)
<shauno> if you even find yourself staring at toilets that don't have pictures on the door - it's not m for male and f for female lol .. fir is gents & mna is ladies
<hamitron> ah damn :/
<hamitron> ty for the tip
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> I'll never forget that one :/
<hamitron> what if the doors have "F" and "M"?
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> hold it
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> seriously, there should be rules against not putting pictures on bathroom doors
<hamitron> or use a proper language
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> there's places not far from here where gaelic is still the dominant language
<hamitron> not ideal, but I suppose they've been there a long time
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I'm working on slovak at the moment.  I'm at the stage where I can pick dinner out of a menu, but their grammar makes me want to stab pencils into my eyes
<hamitron> and is that a menu with numbers next to the dishes? ;)
<hamitron> I love asking for a "number 2" pizza
<shauno> I just order pizza online because I can't prounce the street I live on :/
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> you can order online? :/
<shauno> oh yes.  online fastfood is the greatest invention since the internet
<hamitron> never done iteven by phone, taxi is too expensive for delivery
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> not paying Â£15-20 on top of the price of the food
<hamitron> each slice would be painful to eat, knowing what it cost
<shauno> http://www.just-eat.ie/area/galway-city-centre  is just fantastic
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> I want pizza now
<hamitron> that is actually a cool site
<hamitron> man, I should move to a town
<hamitron> or city
<hamitron> sure beats frozen pizza
<shauno> I think most places are 3eur for delivery, but it beats buying a car
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I tend to just make a proper night of it on the town
<hamitron> drink, pizza, drink, bus home in morning
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> unless things go well ofc
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> hah, I can stumble from here
<shauno> I did that with manchester once, ending the night at the trainstation waiting for dawn to take us home.  not fun
<hamitron> not fun?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> drink enough and it really doesn't matter
<shauno> that was a pretty cold end to the evening
<shauno> and the wee BTP chap kept waking us up
<hamitron> BTP?
<shauno> transport police
<hamitron> errrr
<shauno> it's a real thing  lol
<hamitron> Police Station closes at 5pm in my local town
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> probably a good thing
<hamitron> if they do all these on the spot fines now
<hamitron> meh
<hamitron> I really need food
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> I did that for a while .. lived in a town of 900 people, the smallest police force I've ever seen
<hamitron> wasting away here
<shauno> technically it's a city, but with 900 people, I find it difficult to put 'city' in the same sentence
<hamitron> haha, yeh
<shauno> they actually pulled me over on a bicycle once too :/
<hamitron> what for?
<shauno> no idea, they drove off when I took my mask off
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> that was in michigan, it got rather cold in the winter.  so it was normal for me to be very wrapped up cycling to/from work
<hamitron> hmmm
<hamitron> sounds like it
<hamitron> I've only ever got pulled for speeding
<hamitron> nothing sinister, like hiding my identity ;)
<shauno> pfft, nothing hidden about it.  I was the only person in town that cycled in the winter.  and I'm pretty sure all 4 cops knew that
<hamitron> hehe, so it was personal
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> or state/sherif passing through.  I couldn't see with their lights on
<hamitron> right
<hamitron> I'm gonna get some sleep
<hamitron> 3:30am
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I may not have much work on
<hamitron> but still need to wake in good time
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> hm, I still need something to keep me awake for the next 2 hours
<shauno> 'night
<hamitron> movie!
<hamitron> nn
<diddledan> morning shauno
<diddledan> I've got just the thing. write me a mobile app and a backend that I can monetise for personal profit while not paying you a thing
<diddledan> #1160372 - marked as fix released on 2013-05-24 for raring, and someone just posted that they think they're currently being haxx0red by someone "using this bug"
<diddledan> I fail to see how it's a security issue in the first place, let alone how they can be affected by it now
<shauno> if anything, not being able to login to ftp is properly security-positive
<diddledan> indeed
<diddledan> there's a lot of irrelevant suse stuff in that comment archive
<diddledan> my fault - I linked their bug tracking the issue which seems to have gone off on a tangent talking about all sorts of randomness
<shauno> not quite as funny as this though, https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/11/24/116
<diddledan> *slow*
<diddledan> there's only one kernel developer? (first line)
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> that's _got_ to be a troll?
<diddledan> why isn't #wordpress' doc-bot in here so I can .fry
<diddledan> .fry
<diddledan> see doesn't work
<diddledan> it should post a link to an image similar to: http://go.bwlh.at/1cgw0X0
<shauno> if it just links "not sure if" instead of returning some sarcasm from stephen fry, I'd just be disappointed anyway
<diddledan> sarcasm from stephen would be awesome
<diddledan> the top link on google for stephen fry sarcasm is http://go.bwlh.at/1cgw7Sm
<shauno> project zomboid is oddly addictive.  I love that it'll let you have a stick of butter for dinner - but it will make you sad
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> banana?
<shauno> they go off too quickly
<diddledan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvxqnQmahTA
<diddledan> that's a bad edit
<shauno> I wonder if there's any stats for how many people watch youtube adverts past the first 5 seconds
<diddledan> they've started making some adverts unskippable
<shauno> ryanair need a loyalty scheme.  like my coach give me every 10th trip free
<shauno> seems for new years' I'll be taking different airlines in each direction.  what could possibly go wrong
<xnox> shauno: "frequent flyer bonus - 2 extra inches allowance on the cabin baggage dimensions"
<MartijnVdS> xnox: it's Ryanair. If anything, you'll get 2 inches *less*
<shauno> I've never had a problem with them.  bar one time they landed me in brno instead of bratislava
<shauno> which was more a communication issue than a weather issue.  no-one was quite sure what was going on. a decent number weren't even sure what country we were in
<shauno> it was funnier when they still labelled that flight vienna/bratislava though.  I thought getting landed in eindhoven instead of amsterdam was bad - at least it was the right country
<MartijnVdS> Eindhoven is still 1.5 hours away from Amsterdam (by train)
<shauno> that's not unusual .. paris/bauvais feels about the same
<shauno> eindhoven's just a funny one because it feels like it's about as far away as it could possibly be, without being in a different country
<shauno> but vienna/bratislava is still the only one I know of where you didn't even land in the same country as advertised
<MartijnVdS> http://thecodelesscode.com/case/121
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nah that would be Maastricht or Groningen
<shauno> well there's a great start to the day .. "please do not turn lights on due to electrical fire"
<dwatkins> ug
<shauno> morning ug
<shauno> don't worry, I'll shut up eventually.  downside of an allnighter is that my brain will shut off at daybreak
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: howdy :D
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: good weekend?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yeah, did a nice long run :)
<MooDoo> ewwww running?  I've got two speeds, slow and stop :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I'm training for a 20km run in early March
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: fantastic :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: (it's the 4th time I'm doing it)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: awesome
<MartijnVdS> I've also re-installed my Pi
<MartijnVdS> but I forgot what I wanted to do with it
<MooDoo> learn to code ;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: .. yes
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> because that's only been my job for 15 years 8-)
<shauno> a fun chance to add Scratch to your CV ;)
<MartijnVdS> I might use it to teach myself a bit of Chef
<MartijnVdS> we use that a lot at work
<MooDoo> :)
<shauno> it's apparently suitable for Docker too; I have no idea what it does, but it's reaching new heights of buzzword compatibility
<MartijnVdS> Docker seems to be LCX++
<MartijnVdS> LXC
<MartijnVdS> shauno: we use vagrant(+chef) for development here
<popey> Morning all.
<MartijnVdS> g'morning popey
<MooDoo> morning popey hope you're well
<popey> Very!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon  :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: upside down, emotional, recent things have caught up with me. and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm not too bad thanks, bug hugs to you
<brobostigon> bug hugs?
<MooDoo> oh lol big hugs :D
<brobostigon> thank you :)
<SuperMatt> morning people
<MooDoo> morning SuperMatt :)
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16UlxmYgruo <- ubuntu in action in this video ;)
<SuperMatt> you don't have to watch it all
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: nice tshirt :
<SuperMatt> thanks :)
<SuperMatt> I'm wearing a google helpouts hoodie right now
<SuperMatt> it's quite snuggly
<brobostigon> woop, the brobostigon'ators christmas present, a pebble. :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: sweet :D I'm wearing my meerkat tshirt :D
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: although I do fancy a polo shirt.
<SuperMatt> I've given up on the world of polo shirts
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: how come?
<brobostigon> i have an ubuntu tshirt somewhere from about 4 odd years ago.
<SuperMatt> mostly because I now work somewhere I can where whatever the hell I like ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<bashrc> is it a brown tshirt?
 * brobostigon has a hissy hit, he wants his pebble now, but has to wait, :(
<MooDoo> bashrc: is what a brown shirt?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cyber Monday! :-D
<MooDoo> JamesTait: morning
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<bashrc> brown came before pinkish, or whatever the ubuntu colour is now
<diplo> Is there a way of finding out if a programme is coming to BBC, my parents asked me to get them a documentary on bcc but not currently available on the site
<MooDoo> bashrc: ah no my shirt is grey :)
<diplo> Get_iplayer won't work either because I guess it's delisted.
<diplo> Coming back to the bbc*
<MartijnVdS> diplo: not even with --pid ?
<diplo> Nope, well not that I was succesful :/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> diplo: you can give get_iplayer a search term. I use the web interface for setting up such things
<NanoIT> ...
<AlanBell> morning all
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell how are you?
<AlanBell> fine, very happy with the new lights in the office
<AlanBell> huge LED panels, very white light
<MooDoo> good good :D
<MartijnVdS> LED panels? Like monitors?
<MartijnVdS> or more like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym4O0z13HiM
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, like those, but square
<popey> Achievement unlocked: Dunking digestives without losing them in my tea.
<popey> It's the little things.
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.reddit.com/r/britishsuccess
<MartijnVdS> popey: (see top banner)
<popey> :D
<MooDoo> Rachael Riley is single again. - woohoo chance for me afterall :D
<MooDoo> yes I'll settle for 0.0000000000000000001% :)
<dwatkins> There's a new subreddit I subscribed to at the weekend you lot might also appreciate: http://www.reddit.com/r/ukgaming
<popey> Yeah, saw that news about Rachel
<dwatkins> regarding the top thread, the Blockbuster just around the corner from where I live closed down last week.
<popey> Why is it celebrities have such short marriages?
<popey> Or is it just that they're publicised more than "normals"
<MooDoo> popey: I blame strictly....
<MartijnVdS> popey: a bit of both
<MartijnVdS> popey: also, it's hard to lead a stable life in the limelight -- lots of pressure (peer and other)
<dwatkins> I always think of the fact that Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reaves' characters in Speed didn't stay together because their relationship was based on the events of the first film.
<MooDoo> dwatkins: maybe it would of been differnet if keanu was on the boat ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: then again he was either with rachel weiss or in a phone box going back in time....;)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that would be Canoo Reeves, not Keanu
<dwatkins> MooDoo: iirc they split up between the films, but I suppose they might have gotten back together (Keanu wasn't in the 2nd film, I believe)
<dwatkins> Speed 2 - because you only cared about Sandra Bullock being in the film anyway
<AlanBell> hmm, probably not dfsg free https://github.com/landondyer/kasm/blob/master/LICENSE
<MartijnVdS> bwahaha :)
 * bigcalm giggles
<mungbean> MooDoo: what happ-ened?
<mungbean> with rachel riley?
<AlanBell> it is funny, but comedy license provisions are not a great idea, like the JSON license
<mungbean> i saw her husband in a photo and thought he looked very average (a good thing),
<mungbean> although he is a millionaire..
<shauno> I do like that IBM actually had an exception made for json
<dwatkins> "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil." is a little subjective.
<mungbean> 16 months is pretty poor
<popey> indeed
<dwatkins> Did IBM get them to make an exception so that lawyers could use it? ;)
<MooDoo> mungbean: they have split up, rumours have it she's got close to her strictly partner
<shauno> IBM are allowed to use jslint for evil.  http://wonko.com/post/jsmin-isnt-welcome-on-google-code
<mungbean> :( lost respect for her
<dwatkins> strange that Google didn't like the part about good/evil, considering their mantra is "Do no evil" or something.
<MooDoo> mungbean: it's happened on strickly before, and i'm sure it will again.
<shauno> as google actually explain it though, they only apply this to certain facets of adsesnse
<shauno> http://www.google.co.uk/about/company/philosophy/   #6 is the only mention, and they give it a rather limited scope
<mungbean> daily mail are after a linux person
<mungbean> would politics/ethics stop many people from working for the DM?
<MooDoo> mungbean: can they work remotely?
<MooDoo> mungbean: it's a job, I couldn't care less what they print.
<MartijnVdS> they could want to destroy it from the inside
<mungbean> ethically i woudn't work for a gambling company
<MooDoo> tech support london, doest look too hard
<MooDoo> http://www.jobsite.co.uk/job/technical-support-947846676?src=search&tmpl=sem
<popey> dittoo
<popey> i wouldn't work for a tabacco company either
<popey> got offered, turned it down
<mungbean> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9903183
<mungbean> 90k basic
<popey> and no, wouldn't work for DM
<MooDoo> I'm guessing I have no ethics or morals at all :) lol
<popey> thats the impression you're giving â»
 * mungbean makes a note of that
<MooDoo> :D
<mungbean> irc needs RES tagging
<popey> my ex-boss wanted me to do some work for a tabacco company in the uk, i refused. got quite heated
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: on your "Plans for world domination"?
<MartijnVdS> popey: *heated*, hah
<popey> â»
<popey> my arms ache and i want a cup of tea
<popey> cat is preventing this
<SuperMatt> I didn't want to work for betfare for moral reasons... now I'm working for an advertising company whose biggest client is betfare >.<
<MooDoo> I'm guessing it's just me, as I'm really not getting it, a job is a job....i don't understand.
<popey> I'm sure you do
<mungbean> saw a girl doing roll-ups on the train today. not the biggest fan of cigarettes, but the sight a girl doing a mangey rollup is the most unfeminine sight ever
<mungbean> i worked for a bank, and that challenged me ethically too
<mungbean> just cos its so money oriented
<AlanBell> I was very dubious about an accupuncture place that wanted us to help them with a CRM system
<mungbean> why's that?
<AlanBell> it is woo
<mungbean> jon woo?
<MooDoo> woo hoo?
<popey> woo science
<AlanBell> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo
<mungbean> you don't like the results or the mumbo jumbo explanation given ?
<AlanBell> the results do not outperform a similarly administered placebo and there is no theory of action that passes the laugh test
<mungbean> are placebo doctors cheaper?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Xl4_VnoPI always makes me chuckle
<mungbean> i've had good results from certain sugar pills with my hayfever
<mungbean> appears to improve recovery from flare ups with allergic conjunctivitis
<AlanBell> a saline injection is more effective than a sugar pill
<mungbean> i hear there's a hayfever pill on the wayu that can cure you in 3 yrs of taking a little pollen dose every day
<MooDoo> local honey is supposed to help as well.....
<AlanBell> those have a plausible theory of action, which is worth objectively testing
<MooDoo> just ask the other alan for some chillies, they will clear your nasel passages
<mungbean> chllies would hospital ise me
<mungbean> i haz an intolerance since 10 years ago
<MooDoo> oh dear
<mungbean> woe is me
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBU80butiL0 nice comparison of xbox one and ps4 launch titles
<mungbean> all the nicest food has chillie
<gordonjcp> mmm chilli
<gordonjcp> I made lime and chilli hummus
<DJones> That sounds ok apart from the lime & the hummus
<davmor2> Morning all
<directhex> popey, or http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/8510-Exclusives-Showdown
<mungbean> so i wanted to buy from a shop, then for "black friday" they did an offer of 15% off everything
<mungbean> guess what - they raised the prices by the same amount
<mungbean> not cool
<dwatkins> I'm allergic to milk.
<jussi> mungbean: artificial discounts ftl....
<mungbean> yes, especially as they are still high after the offer expired. #lostacustomer
<mungbean> they didn't reply to my tweet about it
<directhex> dwatkins, that's the norm. most species including humans are lactose intollerant
<directhex> dwatkins, there's a genetic mutation found in caucasian populations which means people can handle it
<mungbean> blue eyes are a mutation too i think
<popey> \o/ green eyes
<popey> or "axe murderers eyes" as I keep being told
<SuperMatt> I like to think of them as cute irish eyes
<SuperMatt> I just melt for green eyes
 * SuperMatt winks at popey
<popey> hah
<mungbean> some eyes don't match hair colour
<popey> i remember the girl who sat behind me in maths (some 30 years ago) asked if she could have my eyes when I die.
<SuperMatt> green eyes and red hair will generally have me in a puddle on the floor
<mungbean> amy pond?
<SuperMatt> sure
<mungbean> she looks weird without the hair
<mungbean> i think the power was in her hair
<MooDoo> I love red heads, no hair just a red head ;)
<SuperMatt> mad props for her for doing it
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: you mean like a sunburned old man?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: not quite into that ;)
<mungbean> i couldn't actually tell you the colour of my wife's eyes
<SuperMatt> shame
<mungbean> they seem to chang
<SuperMatt> I could have introduced you to my dad
<davmor2> MooDoo: She was a leggy blond I could tell she was leggy I was on the fifth floor
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol :D and morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: It's the Marlow Case Fool.  I was working on a case, had to be a case I couldn't afford a table.  A leggy blond walked past the window, I could she was leggy I was on the fifth floor. There was a tap on the door, strange place for a tap, so I opened the door, there stood a red head, no hair just a read head.....
<davmor2> s/read/red
<mungbean> does the trusty tahr nightly builds have anything new yet?
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/trusty-changes/ see for yourself â»
<mungbean> â»
<GentileBen> â»
<mungbean> ï¼â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ â»ââ»
<ali1234> quite a lot of changes if you use xubuntu
<ali1234> there's a ppa for indicator3 now, which is nice
<GentileBen> â*ï½¥ãï¾ï½¥*\(^O^)/*ï½¥ãï¾ï½¥*â
<mungbean> ubuntu isn't getting much so far except for image based updates
<MooDoo> It's a while away isn't it?
<ali1234> yeah, it won't. all ubuntu effort is now on ubuntu touch
<directhex> i'll be doing a buttload of mono related updates over xmas
<directhex> which i'm sure is exciting for everyone
<mungbean> i still have mono on my system, for tomboy
<ali1234> directhex: did that mono compatibility tester ever get packaged?
<mungbean> somebody will be grateful directhex
<directhex> ali1234, moma? i dont think it's maintained any more
<ali1234> that kinda sucks
<Laney> yeah, ME!
<ali1234> i say kinda because it's been a pretty long time since i needed to use something written in mono that wasn't already packaged for linux
<ali1234> mono seems to be only used for writing games these days
<mungbean> 225g bag of cheesy doritos gets opened
<mungbean> hmmm gnote has ssh sync now?
<directhex> ali1234, on linux, i think that's true
<ali1234> nah. windows too
<mungbean> hmm. why does that gnote screenshot say tomboy? https://help.gnome.org/users/gnote/unstable/synchronization.html.en
<directhex> ali1234, mono is one of those technologies which has struggled to find a niche. i guess gaming is a successful niche, mostly due to monogame and unity3d
<directhex> mungbean, laziness?
<mungbean> = confusion though
<GentileBen> ali1234: they should refocus their efforts on Ubuntu One.
<GentileBen> Ubuntu One: the Power of One.
<GentileBen> mungbean, they've made the bags smaller.
<GentileBen> They used to be 250g before the international banking crisis.
<mungbean> they have smaller ones too
<mungbean> 175 i think
<mungbean> they reduced the sizes and put the super small ones on offer to disguise the fact
<MooDoo> pay they make everyting smaller, I mean you can't put monster munch on your figers as rings any more lol
<GentileBen> They also don't list the weight on many smaller crisps.
<GentileBen> They list the "calories per pack" and "calories per 100g".
<GentileBen> Because their smaller ones are like 10g.
<mungbean> monster munch are 23.5g i think
<GentileBen> That's a disgrace.
<mungbean> multipack ones are smaller though
<GentileBen> Remember the ones Walkers released which were just triangles filled with air? I think they were 3D Doritos or something.
<mungbean> yeah
<mungbean> not v nice either
<GentileBen> They pioneered not stating the actual weight on the pack.
<GentileBen> Well, it was a scam. Each bag looked big but had like 8g of crisps in it.
<mungbean> big packets sensations crisps reduced in size too
<GentileBen> The people who make Aero did it too.
<mungbean> dairy milk lost a chunk
<GentileBen> They moved to a smaller pack but introduced a "new even bubblier chocolate" at the same time.
<GentileBen> All they did was fill it with more air so there was less chocolate per unit of area.
<GentileBen> So the weight went down to what, 105g per bar?
<mungbean> i mean the smaller packets
<mungbean> of dairy milk
<mungbean> the 50p ones
<GentileBen> They downsized all of their bars by one row, IIRC.
<mungbean> the big ones are 120g still (well this whole nut bar i'm about to eat is)
<GentileBen> It's the boiling frog effect.
<GentileBen> mungbean, the price didn't change initially - they just made them smaller at a set price.
<GentileBen> Then the price went up, because they're double bastards.
<mungbean> then the price goes up
<mungbean> yep
<GentileBen> This is serious stuff.
 * mungbean has the last laugh by only buying when on offer
<directhex> it *is* serious stuff
<directhex> this was maggie thatcher's job before politics
<directhex> adding more air to squirty cream, so it they could put less in a can at the same price
<GentileBen> She's even more evil than I ever imagined.
<mungbean> she was a chemist
<GentileBen> Ah, so she used to test drugs on the disabled. Gotcha.
<mungbean> :-|
<GentileBen> Thatcher Thatcher milk snatcher!
 * mungbean calls a nurse to give GentileBen his pills
<GentileBen> mungbean, are you denying Thatcher destroyed vast swathes of the country because she was pure evil?
<directhex> are you blaming the thalidomide scandal on thatcher?
<mungbean> NURSE!
<GentileBen> Oh god.
<GentileBen> One of the worst things she did was the "right to buy" vote buying policy.
 * mungbean doesnt' care
<directhex> they still sell thalidomide, you know. just not for pregnant women anymore
<mungbean> about politics
<GentileBen> mungbean, and that's why you're irrelevant.
<mungbean> of course i am
<GentileBen> You're just a bean in a jar, alone.
<mungbean> yes, one 6 billion
<bashrc> I see that maggie remains controversial
<mungbean> some people need to get over things
<GentileBen> bashrc, her ghost still haunts #ubuntu-uk.
<bashrc> wooo
<mungbean> the ball went over the line
<jussi> her ghost still haunts many places
<mungbean> the ref gave it
<bashrc> I'm from The North, so there are not many good htings said about her legacy here
<GentileBen> bashrc, she did introduce fire.
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: the norf?
<GentileBen> MartijnVdS, like in Game of Thrones.
<Myrtti> politics meh
<directhex> so... installed any good packages lately?
<mungbean> looking at whether tomdroid can sync
<mungbean> since u1 killed it
<jussi> directhex: kdeconnect is pretty nice :=)
<mungbean> 307 updates available :S
<ali1234> does anyone here actually use xfce?
<GentileBen> Here? No. #xubuntu-uk? Perhaps.
<mungbean> found it OK but not quite ok enough
<mungbean> does it have compositing or uses xcompmgr still?
<GentileBen> It would be amusing if #xubuntu-uk had xfce versions of all the regular chatters in here.
<ali1234> it has compositing
<mungbean> elementary has ended my search for productive desktop after gnome2's demise
<ali1234> actually it had compositing since like 2005
<mungbean> feels as lightweigth as xfce
<ali1234> doesn't elementary have most of the same problems as gnome?
<mungbean> no
<jussi> does it have composting? :P :P
<mungbean> yes, a little bin in the corner for your degradables
<jussi> hehe
<mungbean> what are the problems of gnome?
<dwatkins> directhex: [lactose intolerance] thanks, that makes me feel less of a freak ;)
<dwatkins> I used XFCE on my netbook until I discovered the i3 window manager.
<dwatkins> i3 is a tiling wm.
<mungbean> IMO they were 1) sucky overlay thing, 2) stupid defaults and lack of options 3) extenstions required to make it usable, breaks every new release 4) slow
<ali1234> mungbean: global menu and other menu related stupidness, and forced use of a dock
<directhex> dwatkins, asians don't drink milk as the vast majority are lactose intollerant
<mungbean> no global menu in elementary. if they did i would p[robably switch
<dwatkins> another knock-on effect of intensive farming
<dwatkins> (along with certain diseases)
<ali1234> mungbean: CSD is another problem of the last gnome release
<mungbean> continuing silly decisions?
<ali1234> no, client side decorations
<mungbean> i like elementary because they happen to have made a desktop with most of the decisions i like
<mungbean> i used to run gnome2+docky and it is not much different
<GentileBen> directhex, you mean the majority of EAST ASIANS are lactose intolerant.
<ali1234> yeah. it's a pity ubuntu developers cannot understand that
<mungbean> i've converted a few people to it
<ali1234> the main selling point of ubuntu is that you don't need to configure anything
<GentileBen> Almost nobody from India or the Middle-East is lactose intolerant.
<ali1234> then they wonder why people leave ubuntu rather than reconfigure things the way they want
<GentileBen> They're also intolerant of alcohol...
<mungbean> turning global menu and other things off and moving buttons to RHS is impossible
<mungbean> in unity
<ali1234> it's actually pretty easy
<ali1234> but easier still is just installing a different distribution
<mungbean> no, you can't do it in unity
<ali1234> yes you can
<mungbean> what happens when you maximise?
<ali1234> the buttons move to the LHS
<mungbean> so it doesn't work
<ali1234> you can turn that off too btw
<ali1234> then when you maximize the window the title bar does not merge in
<mungbean> yeah i tried that but it was all sucky
<ali1234> also none of this has anything at all to do with global menu
<mungbean> and obviously not intended to work
<ali1234> yeah i agree
<ali1234> this is why i don't use unity any more
<mungbean> i still run unity on my home laptop
<mungbean> because wife
<ali1234> reconfiguring it to actually work takes too much effort and you end up with something flaky and unsupported
<mungbean> very much flaky and unsupp
<directhex> when trusty ships, i will evaluate the WM choices again
<mungbean> i'm happy to have found productive desktop again after 2 years of hassle with gnome3/unity/xfce/cuinnamon
<dwatkins> Trusty Tahr... *goes to look up what a Tahr is*
<mungbean> goat
<MartijnVdS> another goat..
<mungbean> goats say mehhhhh
<directhex> unity has been a total farcical disaster for us with new non-linuxy people. massive frustration, etc
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: Ibex was a goat as well
<directhex> gnome fallback is our default deployment now
<MartijnVdS> because Gnome 3 is so much better?
<mungbean> i ever converted a fvwm2 user
<directhex> MartijnVdS, no, just as bad. hence fallback
<ali1234> directhex: which fallback? the one with gnome-panel, or the one that's just gnome-shell with an extension?
<directhex> ali1234, the one with gnome-panel, since that's what's in precise
<mungbean> synapse is far better than dash
<mungbean> no 15 second delays for a start
<ali1234> good choice
<directhex> shell and unity both have the same stupid design choice, i.e. zero discoverability. you need to already know what you want in order to use it - "just type appname!" - totally opaque to anyone who doesn't know appname
<ali1234> i think xfce has the edge on that setup now though
<ali1234> yeah i totally agree about lack of discovery
<directhex> will evaluate what's in trusty.
<mungbean> directhex: thats a mac disease though
<directhex> x11 in trusty means i can consider it for work
<directhex> which is a load off my mind
<mungbean> when is (x)mir coming?
<shauno> a mac disease?
<mungbean> directhex> shell and unity both have the same stupid design choice, i.e. zero discoverability.
<ali1234> pretty much everything that's bad about unity and gnome shell was copied from mac
<directhex> mungbean, spotlight? i don't believe that's the default way to use a mac, it's still very much "look at this pile of app icons!" which is marginally more discoverable
<AlanBell> I didn't know the mac was like that. This explains a lot
<directhex> icons are associable, if not discoverable
<ali1234> yeah at least in finder, the app icons generally stay in the same order unless you change the sorting mode
<ali1234> and you can drag them to the desktop and stuff
<directhex> removing icons from menu bars makes things less memorable, but not discoverable
<directhex> generally, the aim is to make things harder, by making them harder to find *and* harder to memorize
<mungbean> dragging the cd to the wastebin to eject the CD still makes me shudder
<shauno> it's not like that, that's why my query
<directhex> substituting this asinine idea of "just type!" badly implemented.
<AlanBell> and the icons move about in the dash as more search results come in
<ali1234> if i wanted to just type i would use a terminal
<mungbean> its hard to find a terminal on mac
<AlanBell> so you type something, go to click on it and it has moved off screen and something else is there
<mungbean> unless you've been shown
<shauno> out of the box, the first icon in the dock is to finder, which has an Applications entry in the sidebar.  and the second entry is to 'launchpad' that throws them all up on the screen in an ipad-esque view
<directhex> "people" think the internet is "blue E". they don't think it's "press windows key and type internet explorer". icons in memorable locations matter.
<mungbean> launchpad is a new thing though
<mungbean> now the internet is facebook
<shauno> right, but finder isn't
<mungbean> who's on a desktop right now? uptime?
<ali1234> AlanBell: my experience of the dash is you type what you want, wait 30 seconds, then it appears. then you click it and then 10 seconds later it loads up
<SuperMatt> you just reminded me about the time when a website that wasn't facebook became the number one result for searching for facebook
<SuperMatt> I really don't understand why people search for such simple to remember domains
<AlanBell> they don't see the URL bar, browser home page is google
<SuperMatt> in some people's set ups they do
<mungbean> i have 2 desktops: up 605 days, 23:37 ,  up 38 days,  5:14,
<mungbean> LTS ftw
<shauno> most the time the url bar isn't a url bar anymore, so it's only getting worse
<shauno> eg, if I type 'facebook' into the omnibox, I have no idea if it's going to gues at .com, google for it, or match it against a bookmark
<shauno> or my history.  or my phone's open tabs, oddly enough
<mungbean> true. i type fa -> enter
<ali1234> lol chrome user
<shauno> safari usually, but same result
<ali1234> the funny thing about usability
<ali1234> is that people will complain about how software is "too hard"
<shauno> I don't have my browser open fulltime, so opening firefox to visit something 'quick' is like waking your grandmother to get her to make you a cup of tea
<shauno> good plan if you want her to cook a full meal, but if you just want a quick cuppa, it's quicker to make it yourself
<ali1234> it's not "too hard", it's just that you have to think in order to use it
<mungbean>  shauno> I don't have my browser open fulltime
<mungbean> wow
<ali1234> then they'll go and use software they consider "easy" and end up making a mistake that gets their computer infected with viruses
<bashrc> I have a terminal open full time
<MartijnVdS> I have several
<shauno> yeah, my terminal is very rarely closed.  but I don't have a tab fetish, so I've no need to keep my browser open
 * AlanBell reports shauno to the analogy police
<bashrc> I always keep the browser open.  You never know when the urge to browse might strike
<shauno> it's a terrible analogy, but my grandmother does (did) wake up faster than firefox.  ff is just terrible
<mungbean> so i'm trying everpad , but it looks a bit sparse.
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/347320855/the-permanent-exhibition-of-heath-robinsons-life-a
<davmor2> oh email from revolution software release in 3 days woohoo!
<mungbean> i never think of browsing kickstarter projects outside of tech.
<popey> mungbean:  14:06:08 up 8 days, 16:49,  4 users,  load average: 6.88, 7.35, 7.26
<popey> which I will lose on wednesday when the lenovo man comes to look at my laptop
<mungbean> http://www.airfix.com/advent-calendar
<mungbean> free prize every day \o/
<SuperMatt> I should have a lego star wars calendar in the post
<mungbean> http://www.hornby.com/advent-calendar/
<mungbean> trains too :)
<mungbean> a sclaextric one too ;)
<MartijnVdS> if you're into that kind of thing..
<mungbean> who isn;t?
<DJones> Hmmh, 'Valve COmplete Pack' on sale for Â£24.99 saving Â£25, even excluding the Non-Linux games, it saves around Â£15 http://store.steampowered.com/sub/29197/?snr=1_5_9__403
<directhex> bad timing.
<directhex> this is not how you steamsale.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: how *do* you steamsale?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, only buy a daily sale or flash sale item, until the final day of the sale. games have two discount levels - one for the whole sale, and a deeper discount if they're on a daily/flash sale
<directhex> e.g. 50% and 75% off respectively
<shauno> and it's already leaked that they're planning the exact same discounts/titles for christmas, so don't panic if you miss one
<MartijnVdS> shauno: it's steam. Stuff will go on sale again.
<GentileBen> " More people bought a PS4 and a copy of Knack over the weekend than bought a Wii U at any point over the past year and new release Super Mario 3D World."
<GentileBen> Poor Nintendo. :[
<GentileBen> The PS4 sold more units in 1 weekend than the Wii U did in 12 months...
<shauno> I more mean that if something doesn't hit 75% this time, it won't at christmas.  but if it does hit 75% this time, it'll do it again at christmas.  so if you miss the deep discount, wait a month
<GentileBen> Nintendo were caught out this gen - they thought the PS4 and Xbone would debut in 2015, so they targeted the Wii U for that year.
<GentileBen> When they found out both consoles would ship in Q4 2013, they had an ohshi- moment and had to cobble together a console with IBM and AMD's help.
<GentileBen> The more you know!
<directhex> wii u marketing has been catastrophic
<directhex> most wii target market people don't even know what it is.
<ali1234> even i am confused by the wii u
<mungbean> i ran evernote on my android and i get a message "get 12 months of evernote permium compliments of evernote and O2" :-|
<GentileBen> Most people think the Wii U is a tablet add-on for the Wii.
<ali1234> i can't tell if it is a handheld or a console or what
<ali1234> i think people see the controller and think it's a handheld system
<GentileBen> mungbean you've been haxed.
<directhex> ali1234, remember the dreamcast at all?
<ali1234> yes, of course
<mungbean> works on giffgaff too
<directhex> ali1234, remember the VMU memory cards, which added a screen to your controller?
<ali1234> yeah. no games ever used them
<directhex> ali1234, well, now it's a big colour touchscreen. other than that it's a console. better than 360/ps3 whilst being from a comparable HW generation
<ali1234> i also remember the gamecube <-> gameboy advance cable thing
<directhex> lol yes
<directhex> used for... a zelda game?
<ali1234> there's a final fantasy game that requires it
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Crystal_Chronicles
<directhex> anyway, the wii u is worthwhile because it offers new gameplay experiences, ones not found on ps3/ps4 or 360/bone
<directhex> ali1234, http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25 ?
<ali1234> yeah, the game was rubbish as well
<ali1234> also you only need the GBAs for multiplayer mode
<directhex> ali1234, i don't regret buying a wii u at all.
<ali1234> but the single player game was a) even more rubbish and b) impossibly hard
<directhex> i despair at nintendo;s continued incompetence though
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rIJmGj4g-s
<mungbean> its time for never buy a console at launch
<ali1234> i never buy a console until the next gen launches :)
<GentileBen> Wow.
<GentileBen> Do you never watch a film until the sequel comes out?
<shauno> hah, I discovered /r/patientgamers recently, might be right up your alley
<mungbean> also, when there's sequels i usually don't bother either
<GentileBen> Some people do that. It means they can build a low-end system and still play games as if they were new.
<mungbean> i'm still playing elite
<GentileBen> No Half-Life 2 for mungbean?
 * MartijnVdS only played Frontier
<MartijnVdS> ("Elite II")
<GentileBen> "I'm very glad I picked up a Wii U for Christmas last year. I don't really care that it's underselling: that just means there won't be many third-party games for it. "
<GentileBen> lol, and the guy doesn't see that as a problem?
<ali1234> that game suuuuucked
<ali1234> so many broken features
<mungbean> i bought HL2 for the CS game to play with workmates
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes it was broken, but I didn't mind too mcuh
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: check oolite
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I played that a *lot*
<mungbean> awesomeness
<ali1234> it was unplayable due to the broken copyprotection
<ali1234> worst game evar
<ali1234> it was as buggy as the initial releases of games today
<ali1234> except back then there was no internet updates
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: was it? I had the manual.. and the copy protection worked.
<ali1234> i had the manual and the copyprotection didn't work
<ali1234> but due to how it was designed, you didn't find out until you'd been playing for like a week
<shauno> I seem to have 1.0 & 1.2 builds; perhaps it was fixed?
<ali1234> maybe
<mungbean> this hostinger website, do they give .com domain names for free?
<DJones> mungbean: http://www.hostinger.co.uk/web-hosting Looks like a free .co.uk domain
<DJones> Ah, actuall, no, not included
<mungbean> ah, was looking for that ,ta
<MooDoo> their jobs page looks interesting, for customer service you need to be perfect in english language and good in english language...
<mungbean> i'm the former, but not the latter.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you speak 2 languages: English and bad English?
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> depending on the company
<MooDoo> i suspect english is not the first language of staff...
<GentileBen> Who here can, hand on heart, say English is their first language? Exactly.
<directhex> erm
<davmor2> GentileBen: me
<GentileBen> davmor2, I thought you were Welsh.
<popey> o/
<popey> I know no other language.
<GentileBen> popey, I thought you were from the Vatican.
<GentileBen> "I know no other language." <-- ah, English.
<directhex> i know a bunch of languages, but english is my native tongue
<GentileBen> Amazon is cheaper for things like hair gel. Who'd have thought?
<GentileBen> Â£1.50 from Amazon, Â£3.50 from Asda/Tesco.
<davmor2> GentileBen: Wolverhampton is not Wales. I know a tiny amount of french, russian and german (note not enough to have a real conversation).  But on the whole only really know English.
<GentileBen> People are sometimes snobby about languages. Mostly the people who learned a particular language in later life.
<GentileBen> davmor2, I literally could not pinpoint Wolverhampton on a map.
<mungbean> 99p shop is cheaper
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: than the Â£1 shop?
<GentileBen> You can't get V05 Extreme Style roughItUp Putty for 99p.
<dwatkins> Someone should undercut them and make a 98p shop.
<GentileBen> It's like asking God to square a circle.
<mungbean> somehow i didn't see GentileBen as a hair putty man
<GentileBen> dwatkins, or a 98.5p shop and round up all transactions to the nearest penny.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: You don't choose a name like that if you don't have lots of insecurities
<davmor2> GentileBen: you already do square it, it's how you figure out the Circumference from the radius
<GentileBen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaring_the_circle
<GentileBen> Find me V05 Extreme Style roughItUp Putty for less than Â£1.50 a pot, and you will earn a shiny new donkey.
<mungbean> does surfstyle count?
<mungbean> poundland have sold taht
<mungbean> http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/poundland-cuts-prices-97p-undercut-192254215.html
<GentileBen> Ah, but were they 150ml pots?
<mungbean> yes#
<mungbean> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/vo5-surfstyle-150ml-4-fry-s-creams-1-each-poundland-1555175
<GentileBen> Well, I'm not a surfer.
<mungbean> its all the same stuff
<mungbean> its gloop
<GentileBen> I don't understand. Surely the inconvenience of having to handle and store pennies is worth more than the actual penny?
<GentileBen> I'd rather pay Â£1 with 1p of store credit.
<mungbean> i wouldn't say no to 100 million pennies
<GentileBen> What if you had to sort them by hand?
<mungbean> i'd pay a slave to do it
<GentileBen> "Tom Daley reveals relationship with man" <-- lol his diving partner maybe? I always suspected.
<mungbean> dunno, whoever this fella is https://twitter.com/janoskians_w0w/status/407531916171444224/photo/1/large
<mungbean> looks like H&M
<GentileBen> He's done very well for himself.
<mungbean> looks like nobody is around, but was wondering ...
<mungbean> i have a minix neo x5..was wondering whether to put android or linux on it for a display/presentation PC
<mungbean> android sucks with keyboard/mouse
<Azelphur> Was on the train to Margate last night, everybody wants to come here https://www.dropbox.com/s/qm94m1k84u5les3/2013-12-01%2023.35.14.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you bought an entire train with your btc?
<davmor2> mungbean: have a look at if Lubuntu will run on if it is a low level device
<mungbean> it's ARM
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nah, just on the way back from the expo in London :)
<mungbean> the bitcoin jamboree in shoreditch?
<davmor2> mungbean: have a look and see if there is an arm build for it :P
<GentileBen> Wow look at those seats.
<GentileBen> Are they clean or is your camera terrible?
<GentileBen> No dog/horse/ass hair on any of them.
<mungbean> davmor2: yeah, suffering death by forum atm
<mungbean> wonders about those pills for GentileBen
<Azelphur> GentileBen: *shrug* I'd imagine clean, given that...nobody goes on that train
<SuperMatt> I have my lego star wars advent calendar!
<davmor2> SuperMatt: it's not as good as last years :(
<davmor2> SuperMatt: however I'm getting my Red5 X-Wing for Christmas though :)
<mungbean> still have my battle damaged xwing
<mungbean> from the 1980s
<GentileBen> I still have my Star Wars pog collection.
<GentileBen> They were Tazos, actually.
<Azelphur> The mystery of the random microfibre cloth is solved
<Azelphur> one of my friends bought it for me as a joke to get me to dust my desk xD
<popey> haha, excellent
<marxjohnson> My byobu statusbar has suddenly started showing an indicator saying "RAID,99.6%" in red. Is that something to worry about?
<mungbean> sounds like its almost rebuilt
<SuperMatt> I just ordered my n54l \o/
<SuperMatt> Â£129.99 after cashback from ebuyer
<Azelphur> nice
<marxjohnson> mungbean: Which should happen if, for instance, a disk had died and i replaced it?
<popey> http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/2/5166204/diy-gamer-kit-build-your-own-gameboy nice
<popey> marxjohnson: cat /proc/mdstat â»
<SuperMatt> hmmm... I need to find a good name for my server now
<SuperMatt> I'm thinking of going for Oracle
<SuperMatt> or Babs
<SuperMatt> to go with RedRobin and Peeg
<SuperMatt> and Bruce
<ali1234> popey: that's not a gameboy :(
<SuperMatt> 5 house points to anyone who guesses my naming scheme
<popey> well indeed
<ali1234> althought the only thing stopping anyone from building their own gameboy these days is the bootrom is copyright
<marxjohnson> popey: well everything seems to be OK with the disks
<marxjohnson> not sure what the indicator's trying to tell me
<popey> ask kirkland
<mungbean> its rebuilding the raid array after a new disk
<mungbean> takes a few hours
<marxjohnson> mungbean: it's not though
<ali1234> i found out something funny about my NAS
<marxjohnson> I haven't changed the disks
<ali1234> if the disk is 95% full all the warning lights turn red, even when it is turned off
<ali1234> it's 1TB, so 5%=50 gigs
<SuperMatt> that's kinda cool, kinda annoying
<ali1234> it was worrying. i thought all 4 drives failed
<mungbean> thats not RAID status though?
<xnox> marxjohnson: sudo cat /proc/mdstat will tell you what's up with your raid: wether it's rebuilding, or disk space usage, etc.
<xnox> these days percentage limits are not that interesting. And always should be supplied as duplicate, e.g. min (5%, 30G) such that it takes the lowest value 5% or 30GB for example.
<marxjohnson> xnox: http://pastebin.com/F368wudi That's the output, doesn't look like anythings up. Perhaps it needed to resync for some reason and the indicator's still showing the last number it saw
<mungbean> is there a tux in here? http://i.imgur.com/BKMgInj.jpg
<SuperMatt> surely they're all tux
<mungbean> there's a few in there i think
<mungbean> ideal present for a linux fan
<Myrtti> oh man
<Myrtti> I might be in troube
<davmor2> Myrtti: what did you break now?
<Myrtti> d has an imgur account that complains about the OP having not checked the sources
<Myrtti> I found one that claims to have "facts" on imgur
<Myrtti> it has a massive spider in it and I linked it to him and totally forgot about it
<foobarry> how do you link a registered nick on freenode?
<Myrtti> with group
<foobarry> looks like i accidentally already did it, ta
<Myrtti> np
<foobarry> its that time of year for a name change
<Myrtti> is it?
<Myrtti> why?
<foobarry> i change it every year
<foobarry> i guess i'm a bit odd
<Myrtti> I change mine for maybe a week and then return to old, I've invested too much to this to change it
<foobarry> its my way of purging the logs i guess
<directhex> i could no more be !directhex online than i could walk up to my friends and say "hi, i'm steve"
<ali1234> be quiet steve
<Myrtti> foobarry: well, if it's helps you keep your inner peace and paranoia in check, no matter unrealistic wish it is...
<Myrtti> I just realised that my nickname is brilliant in the sense that if I end up taking dsample's last name my professional identity is still tied to my nickname
 * gordonjcp has been gordonjcp online for a very, very long time
<Myrtti> I'm clocking 15 years soon
<Myrtti> if not already
<GentileBen> directhex, you just doxed yourself.
<directhex> GentileBen, ?
<GentileBen> "hi, i'm steve"
<directhex> ... i'm not steve.
<directhex> i'm directhex
<GentileBen> Nice try, Steve.
<directhex> mapping from directhex to some meatspace entity is not hard, my cv with full contact details is online.
<GentileBen> I have a secondary, disposable number for my CV.
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿ foobarry is mungbean
<popey> there we go
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | IRC stats: http://tinyurl.com/uukstat | G+ Community: http://tinyurl.com/uukgplus | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿
<GentileBen> People who change nicks frequently often have something to hide.
<bashrc> (changes nick)
<arc__> Hello
<arc__> Hey what mac irc are there
<arc__> Hello
<Azelphur> arc__: uhh, this isn't a mac channel?
<arc__> I know
<arc__> I am ask what are the names of them
<directhex> which assumes mac expertise, and this isn't a channel with much mac expertise
<bashrc> I used a mac once.  Wasn't impressed
<arc__> I understand that
<shauno> there's #macosx, ##mac and ##apple, in order of current population
<arc__> Thank you
<shauno> there's a bot that'll help you hunt in future, /msg Alis HELP LIST
<arc__> Kk
<DJones> GentileBen: I've seen your nick list, people in  glass houses shouldn't throw stones
<GentileBen> DJones, I see you lack even a scintilla of humour.
<diddledan> people in glass palaces shouldn't stow thrones
<DJones> GentileBen: I have very little humour (certainly since the mid 1980's) when humour changed and became abuse pretending to be humour
<GentileBen> Did they invent irony and sarcasm in the 80s?
<DJones> No, that was long before then
<diddledan> DJones: stop being sarcastic :-p
<DJones> diddledan: Sarcasm, nope, just looking at !guidelines & !coc
<diddledan> !coc
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere | http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/conduct  | For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct | Watch http://static.screencasts.ubuntu.com/videos/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC.ogv
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that's a bad bad acronym
<DJones> diddledan: Only in your mind
<diddledan> "go and look at the channel coc"
<DJones> diddledan: That says more about you :)
<diddledan> <-- twisted and perverted and ...
<GentileBen> Are you two gently abusing each other?
<diddledan> <-- latent teenager
<GentileBen> If so, this isn't cricket.
<diddledan> GentileBen: if it was we'd all be standing around with red patches where we've been rubbing our balls
<diddledan> cricket balls*
<diddledan> >.<
<GentileBen> They're only red if you have certain diseases.
<DJones> diddledan: +1 Assuming late 40's is Fourty-teen :)
<diddledan> lol
<GentileBen> Regardless, I'd recommend a scrotal exam. As it so happens, DJones is a scrotologist.
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> eek
<diddledan> what did racischa do?
<DJones> Too much
<diddledan> oh
<diddledan> I suppose with a name that includes the word "racis[t]" you're kinda making it obvious what your intent is
<diddledan> since when did virginmedia use the domain virginm.net?
<diddledan> they should have registered the domain virg.in
<foobarry> just read the scrollback over last couple of hours...lol
<foobarry> hp microserver on ebuyer daily deals Â£129.99
<diddledan> foobarry: you need to pay more than that upfront. that's after 50Â£ cashback
<foobarry> yeah..
<foobarry> i hate that cashback idea
<diddledan> me too
<diddledan> why not just make it cheap
<foobarry> if they intend to give you the money, just do it
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> its really hard for a business to reclaim it
<foobarry> when purchased with a purchase order
<diddledan> ergh, I didn't think about how a business would do it
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that sounds bad
<diddledan> how do you quantify the incoming funds?
<diddledan> on your books, I mean
<foobarry> i tried it once
<foobarry> for a big company
<foobarry> never discovered whether the funds made it in
<foobarry> i had to specify a bank account and sort code etc
<foobarry> and add a reference for incoming payment
<foobarry> but there was no such field to allow that on the HP form
<foobarry> so it might have been rejected
<foobarry> been playing for 5 mins in shotwell to get white balance right. gave up and spun up picasa. 1 second and its fine
<diddledan> \o/ for windows-only closed-source running-on-wine :-p
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/gallery/Z9bRBUU
<foobarry> jeremy clarkson as a young girl
<Myrtti> genoi
<Myrtti> genious https://plus.google.com/100380760030392013972/posts/NGmx2yEApPq
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: it'll probably be nice & warm too
<MartijnVdS> knowing my phone
<diddledan> Myrtti: I can't work out whether they made it as a joke or in all seriousness
<diddledan> and, foobarry , Jeremima Clarkson was hot in that photo!
<popey> AlanBell: saw this and thought of you http://www.amazon.com/PNY-Elite-Performance-UHS-1-P-SDX64U1H-GE/dp/B00E83XHXM
<directhex> CHOKING HAZARD -- This toy is a small ball. Not for children under 3 yrs.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-03
<diddledan> I've decided that I like haxe
<diddledan> type-safety ftw
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FSBF0K6/
<daftykins> Â£90 off today :O
<diddledan> logic problems make my head hurt
<diddledan> I need to work out if a link on a webpage (in javascript) is pointing to a location that is local vs remote - problem is it needs to cope with the various formats of url such as http:// or https:// or // or /file or just file
<diddledan> the third one I meant to say //example.com/file
<diddledan> I think I might have the if statement sorted now
<diddledan> I've got: if ((domainFromRegex != siteDomain && (protocol == http:// || protocol == https:// || protocol == //)) || protocol is null
<diddledan> that last one should be is not null
<diddledan> oh I don't know
<diddledan> my brian hurts
<diddledan> I can't think clearly
<diddledan> maybe that'll work: if regexedDomain != currentDomain && protocol != ''
<diddledan> it's a good job I don't play with cryptography - I'd never get it to work
<ali1234> convert the url into a canonical one first
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5980682/obtaining-canonical-url-using-javascript
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> that doesn't do what you think it does
<diddledan> that gets the attribute "href" from the <link> tag whose rel attribute is "canonical"
<diddledan> absolutely nothing to do with anchors whatsoever
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> ello
<MooDoo> dwatkins: ello
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Morning MooDoo, good start to the day ?
<diplo> Just dropped my kids at school and now waiting for my ex girlfriends car to be picked up by the scrappers, trying to pretend I'm in the office :)
<MooDoo> diplo: yeah not bad, I love these 7am starts :D
<diplo> Just hope the phone doesn't ring as I haven't set that up yet :D
<diplo> Working from 7 ?
<MooDoo> yeah
<diplo> :(
<MooDoo> diplo: i love it, love this shift, I get to finish at 3:30
<diplo> I'm up at 6:45 to get the kids ready, get them to school for 8:30 and normally to work 8:40 ish
<MooDoo> diplo: luckly with our kids, the wife drops them off at their grans mon/tue/wed and they take them to school, we're lucky that parents/sisters etc live in the same village.
<DJones> Bit of an unusual drive to work this morning listening to Radio 4, The word 'Ubuntu' mentioned numerous times on 'Thought for the day' in its original south african usage refering to comments made by Desmond Tutu
<diplo> Mum and dad pick them up on Monday evenings for me and feed them, single dad means I have to do the rest :/
<MooDoo> diplo: must be hard for you chap
<MooDoo> DJones: means humanity to others doesn't it?
<DJones> MooDoo: Yep
<ali1234> i used to get up at 7:45 to be at school at 8:30
<diplo> Only Mondays and Tuesdays so its not to bad, just my kids are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow
<DJones> Although when they first said it, I was hoping it was going to be about open source
<diplo> Get picked up by their mum Tuesday evenings
<MooDoo> DJones: you can wish :D
<MooDoo> diplo: manly pat on the back for being awesome.....
<diplo> Hope these bloomin scrappy people turn up on time
<MooDoo> diplo: do they need you to pick up the car?  can't they just take it?
<diplo> Need the key, and I need to sign for it supposedly
<diplo> Oooh and I need to take the tax disc out!
<MooDoo> diplo: you're welcome
<diplo> ta :)
<diplo> Well that was worth it, it runs out the end of this month.. probably can't claim that now
<DJones> diplo: No, has to be at least a full month left
<diplo> :/
<diplo> I paid for that as well! :(
<knightwise> hey everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Day of People with Disability! :-D
<MartijnVdS> #ubuntu-uk day then?
<MartijnVdS> (mental counts right?)
<popey> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> and knightwise JamesTait et al
<foobarry> i had a dream about shuttlewroth coming round my house last night and speeding up my computer
<foobarry> :S
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I don't think it discriminates against people with any specific kind of disability.  I thin kthat's the point. :-P
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> how are you guys doing today
 * foobarry has been winding up strikers
<foobarry> some sort of strike today
<JamesTait> Someone appears to have stolen 15 minutes of my morning.
<MooDoo> foobarry: as in why you striking?
<foobarry> MooDoo: they were asking why i was breaking a picket line LOL
<foobarry> this aint the miners strike
<foobarry> they seemed annoyed that i said i wasn't interested in pay
<foobarry> of course i am , but not the way they fail to do it
<JamesTait> Arthur Scargill got hit on the head, his head bled quite a lot and formed a scab.  When it hadn't cleared up after two weeks, he went to see the doctor.  The doctor told him not to picket.
<foobarry> the office is rather empty today, but nobody's in the union. weird
<MooDoo> foobarry: what you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?
<foobarry> the same as my friend mungbean
<foobarry> he provides IT systems for academic research
<JamesTait> One word, foobarry, and I was instantly transported back to my early childhood.  Living in a mining village was quite scary back then, I seem to recall.
<foobarry> i don't think i'd be suited to working in mines
<foobarry> or fighting in a war for that matter
<foobarry> i could fly remote drones though
<MooDoo> foobarry: join amazon for that ;)
<DJones> foobarry: You better get your application in for Amazon then
<foobarry> what if you buy a quadcopter?
<foobarry> do they post the remote control to you after it's landed?
<MooDoo> foobarry: it's only up to a certain weight, quad copters would be to heavy
<DJones> I want to know how its going to put the 'we tried to deliver but you were out' card through the letter box
<ali1234> i really hope they make that drone thing, and all the drones get stolen using GPS spoofing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they'll stop it then
<MooDoo> ali1234: I suspect it was just a marketing ploy the day before cyber monday
<ali1234> well yeah
<DJones> And then there'll be the case of the drone trying to land on somebodys pet rotweiller thats lying down just outside the door
<MooDoo> what if you live in a flat?
<DJones> MooDoo: They have roofs
<knightwise> hangin out in the tele2 datacenter in den bosch today
<DJones> Abandoned Amazon packages on the roof of blocks of flats because nobody has a key to get up there
<MooDoo> knightwise: got ear plugs ;)
<foobarry> MooDoo: they could fly the quadcopter to me..
<SuperMatt> morning peeps
<knightwise> MooDoo: yes Ã¨
<knightwise> I'm in a "cold alley" so its pretty chilly too
<popey> Amazon marketing success, that drone video.
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: morning
<MooDoo> knightwise: ooo lovely
<MooDoo> popey: it worked, got everyone talking about it...maybe we could implement the same for ubuntu cd's ;)
<knightwise> Just installed 12
<knightwise> 12.04 on my new lenovo
<knightwise> works like a charm , but the touchpad is quirky
<MartijnVdS> why 12.04 and not 13.10?
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: seemed to work better
<MartijnVdS> strange, you'd think hardware support would be better in a newer Ubuntu :)
<knightwise> appears not .. its strange
<knightwise> I seems to have a bug where it does not detect the touchpad at first boot
<knightwise> then when I reboot everthing is fine
<knightwise> laptop is a lenovo twist
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: my XPS12 has similar issues.. if I disable the touch screen, the touchpad is fine, if I enable it, it's *very* basic (no two-finger scrolling, for example)
<knightwise> same issue her
<knightwise> e
<ali1234> that is a software bug
<knightwise> I need to look for a script to disable / enable the touchscreen
<popey> why?
<ali1234> the touchpad and touchscreen are completely different hardware
<ali1234> enabling or disabling one cannot affect the operation of the other... unless the software is broken
<MartijnVdS> It's because the touchpad and touch screen both share an I2C bus
<knightwise> not sure what is the Matter . at first boot the touchpad doesnt work but the touchscreen does
<knightwise> at 'reboot" they both work
<MartijnVdS> (though the touch pad is also available on "old style" interfaces, unless I2C is initialized)
<MartijnVdS> so: enable touchscreen -> touch pad goes to "basic mode"
<MartijnVdS> (because there's no good I2C SYnaptics driver yet)
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<MartijnVdS> there are launchpad bugs about this
<knightwise> so is there anything I can do when the touchpad doesnt work.  ? run a script or something ?
<knightwise> would save me the trouble of rebooting
<MartijnVdS> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1218973
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1218973 in linux (Ubuntu) "XPS 12-9Q33 touchpad not recognized" [High,Triaged]
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: ^
<ali1234> yeah that has nothing to do with the touchscreen at all
<knightwise> ah , so the issue is also still there in 13.10
<ali1234> that's just the synaptics driver being rubbish
<knightwise> ah. so hooking up a mouse would perhaps work
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-input/msg27768.html
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: they've been fixing it in a branch called "synaptics-rmi4" or something
<diplo> And it's gone!
<MartijnVdS> diplo: who is?
<diplo> Now to get on with work, my ex's car.. been waiting for scrap dealer to pick it up
<diplo> Been sat outside my house for weeks
<foobarry> was it a 1 yr old mercedes :P
<MartijnVdS> is the ex in the trunk?
<foobarry> that would be satisfying
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: are you hans reiser?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: no.
<foobarry> i wonder when he gets outta jail
<diplo> heh nope :/
<diplo> And nah a picasa, died probably 6 weeks ago and been waiting for her to arrange it
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: he got "15 years to life"
<foobarry> In July 2012, a jury awarded Reiser's children $60 million against their father for the death of Nina Reiser.[60] Reiser acted as his own attorney during the trial and tried to argue that he killed his wife to protect their children
<MartijnVdS> I think there's a word for that: "Bonkers"
<foobarry> As a result of his plea bargain, Reiser cannot appeal his conviction or sentence
<MartijnVdS> Weird 'Murricans
<foobarry> same as OJ then
<foobarry> woops, OJ was acquitted
<foobarry> In September 2007, Simpson was arrested in Las Vegas, Nevada, and charged with numerous felonies, including armed robbery and kidnapping.[3] In 2008, he was found guilty[4][5] and sentenced to 33 years' imprisonment, with a minimum of nine years without parole.[
<foobarry> prize muppet
<MartijnVdS> I don't understand plea bargains... you either did it, or you didn't. Punishment should be based on that. Not on how well you can argue about it?
<popey> mitigating circumstances?
<MartijnVdS> popey: sure, but the way plea bargaining works in the US isn't like that
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's like "Say you did it and we'll punish you less", then even if they can't prove it, they punish you because you said you did it!
<popey> 2021
<popey> "Reiser will be eligible for parole in 2021 when he will be 57 years old"
<foobarry> at laest he gets to travel
<foobarry> he's been in 4 different prisons already
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ethically_disputed_judicial_practices
<foobarry> pretty sure in the UK you get a shorter sentence if you plead guilty
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: inquisitorial system vs adversarial system
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: actually, Common Law vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon sorry for ignoring you there
<brobostigon> MooDoo: dont worry about it, busyness can cause delay.
<foobarry> anyone had experience with the wii motion plus adapters you get on ebay?
<foobarry> my gold wii controller got killed by a battery leak
<DJones> Hmmh, should I be worried as a Rugby League supporter, godaddy reported to be set to be announced as main sponsors of the top league
<foobarry> do they have dancing girls in rugby league?
<MooDoo> DJones: no
<DJones> foobarry: No, thats football your thinking of, they're the ones with numbers 1-11 on their backs :)
<foobarry> they will have dancing girls within the year then :P
<foobarry> some of these guys on ebay shift 30,000 items a month :-|
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: sounds like hard work
<DJones> foobarry: There are half time cheerleaders, but generally its local kids that do that
<foobarry> sounds a bit pervy already
<foobarry> probably what attracted the godaddy
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski
<davmor2> czajkowski: long time no type
<DJones> Grr, stupid suppliers, ringing me up asking for payment of an invoice...which I've already emailed and asked for a copy, email confirmed as delivered and read 3 weeks earlier but nobody bothered to send me a copy, then the same person I emailed rings me up to ask for payment, when I pointed that out they said, "Oh I didn't send a copy, I just thought the original would have turned up by now"
<TheOpenSourcerer> how do I restart the network manager jobby in the top bar?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: still need to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<popey> (generally you don't, you restart NM itself)
<TheOpenSourcerer> sudo service network-manager restart
<popey> ya
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just installed Openvpn but it's not showing up in the list of VPNs I want to configure
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now installing network-manager-openvpn - why didn't the software centre install this when I installed openvnp is beyond me.
<jussi> DJones: lol
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: because it isn't a dependency on openvpn if you did it the other way round it would of
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: yes - but that disn;t show up by default - was hidden in the "technical items" ;-)
<shauno> sounds fair enough to me.  I use ubuntu on servers.  I don't want NM to be a dependency of openvpn
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: Am not on a server - obviously
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Technical items is basically anything that doesn't have .desktop file making it hard to display graphically.  So that fits the criteria sorry :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just seems a bit sucky really.
<foobarry> just noticed the little animation lmgtfy now does
<popey> some people don't want to install nmetwork-manager-openvpn though
<popey> e.g. if you use wicd + openvpn, you don't want NM pulled in
<popey> so it's sane
<shauno> I think what he'd need simply isn't in deb's brains atm.  an amazon-esque "if you have X and Y, you may also be interested in Z"
<TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: yeah - like I want focus follows eyeballs rather than mouse ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Which is probably doable as Samsung can do that kind of thing on their phones...
<shauno> I really need to find a way to move these VMs to kvm or similar.  vmware is inspiring many not-family-safe phrases today
<diddledan> shauno: the ones you were trying to coerce months ago?
<SuperMatt> are the tasks your vm is doing something that lxc could do?
<shauno> some of them, probably.  others come packaged as a VM from a third-party, so are probably best left that way
<SuperMatt> d'oh
<shauno> and one's windows7, which is also filling me with various kinds of hate :(
<SuperMatt> naturally#
<shauno> well, mostly it just makes me feel stupid.  eg, I can't figure out how to renew dhcp on nic2
<diddledan> you'll never manage to move a windows7 vm onto a different platform if you want it to stay activated
<diddledan> shauno: ipconfig /renew doesn't work?
<shauno> honestly, I can't tell
<shauno> never thought I'd say this, but I want the XP vm back
<MooDoo> SLAP!
<MooDoo> ;)
<MooDoo> shauno: did you read about the latest xp xploit with adobes reader installed?
<shauno> well see, it's not internet-facing so I've never had to worry about stuff like that
<shauno> golden rule for windows; no internet, no problem :)
<MooDoo> just had a friend with the crypto virus
<diplo> I've not seen the crypto thing or bothered reading up on it.. how do you get it ? Just links, or have to install something manually ?
<MooDoo> diplo: it's malware, exe or from a zip, but yes you have to run it
<shauno> from what I've ready, the primary vector appears to be email
<MooDoo> yes and it's a doozy, :(
<MooDoo> I told my friend pay up or loose your data, they didn't want to pay x hundred quid so reformatted.
<shauno> most the cases I've read so far, it tries to pretend it's coming from someone within the company (hello SPF) and then mails itself to the rest of the company
<diplo> :/
<diplo> No ones got round it in any way yet then I guess
 * diplo goes off to read up on it.
<MooDoo> you can't
<MooDoo> diplo: it encyrpts your files with 256bit encryption, you have to pay for the key
<shauno> so far, cash, backups, or wave goodbye
<shauno> and keep in mind that it will try to traverse mapped network shares
<shauno> backups can't be understated there either.  If someone's lost "everything" they either had no backups, or they were hot/online  (see also: raid is not a backup)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: you around?
<diplo> Blimey, that sucks.. amazed I've not had any calls yet :)
<dogmatic69> sup
<diplo> Maybe people are actually starting to take heed of me saying don't click the links!
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  o/
<bigcalm> dogmatic69:  I need to read a model record without it returning an array that also includes all linked records
<dogmatic69> still in 1.1?
<MooDoo> diplo: nah doubt it
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: $this->Apartment->read(null, $apartmentId) is returning far more data than I need
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yep, but hopefully still relevant
<dogmatic69> ok, does the model have 'recursive' property?
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: not that I can see in models/apartment.php
<dogmatic69> it would be in cakes Model class
<dogmatic69> it has http://api11.cakephp.org/class_model.html#21ff2f461a6032573d52bba2cd8ec296
<dogmatic69> you can use that to limit what returns
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: yep, just found it
<bigcalm> Okay...
<dogmatic69> that will for example stop returning all relations with -1
<dogmatic69> 0 should do just belongs to
<dogmatic69> or has one
<dogmatic69> you can also use http://api11.cakephp.org/class_model.html#10b02aacb6ec610a54e578f11ac73e54
<dogmatic69> with that you can remove specific relations before the find
 * bigcalm tinkers
<bigcalm> Thanks :)
<dogmatic69> in the newer cakes you could specify if that unbind lasted or just for the next find. Not sure of the 1.1
<dogmatic69> seems like it is for the entire request, but might be for the next call only.
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: works like a charm, thanks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6514310/
<dogmatic69> np
<bigcalm> That is within the BeforeSave() method of the Booking model. Hopefully it won't mess up the relationships
<dogmatic69> bigcalm:  bit late now, but the 'best' thing to do is set it to -1 in the appmodel and then adjust as needed. :)
<dogmatic69> but newer versions have containable which makes selecting the fields / models to use on the fly much easier
<bigcalm> dogmatic69: this is a _very_ old project. Making do with what I have ;)
<dogmatic69> ye, 1.1 is ~ windows 95 :P
<bigcalm> It still has support for PHP 4
<MartijnVdS> poor you
<bigcalm> Well, in the framework. Not sure my code is still usable on PHP 4
<popey> \o/ turkey ordered
<MartijnVdS> popey: Food or pet?
<popey> food
<SuperMatt> my n54l is here!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Pet food I bet the cats get away with it :D
<popey> \o/
<popey> ordered quite a big turkey, hope it fits in the oven â»
<popey> might cheat and cook it the day before
<foobarry> is anyone unfortunate enough to use office 365?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I had to at my previous job
<foobarry> IMAP and SMTP support is terrible
<foobarry> and regular issues
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: IMAP disconnects *all the time*
<MartijnVdS> SMTP sometimes randomly decides to reject your password, so Thunderbird gets confused
<MartijnVdS> Good thing I only worked at that place for a month
<foobarry> what a joke
<popey> Well, thats the last time I go to *that* bakery. I ordered a cornish pastie and she put a sausage roll in the bag â¹
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: apparently it works fine with Lookout
<foobarry> my company have decided to no longer support thunderbird with o365
<foobarry> what is lookout?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Outlook
<foobarry> there's no way i'm puntting that hideous app on my machine
<MartijnVdS> good!
<foobarry> creates more problems than it solves
<ali1234> popey: that's just... wow
<diddledan> it's not as bad as express lookout
<foobarry> wondering about creating a smtp relay
<shauno> then you'll have two problems ;)
<Myrtti> I just yesterday saw a 3D printer on Google+ that is sold for 499 and now I can't find the ink
<Myrtti> link
<Myrtti> oh yeah
<Myrtti> found it
<knightwise> grrrr
<knightwise> just lost the remote control with a laptop I had setup in our isp's datacenter
<MooDoo> knightwise: you eating frosties lol
<knightwise> And I need to get at it to do some tests
<Daviey> Myrtti: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/125537-rs-reprappro-ormerod-3d-printer-could-be-world-s-cheapest-and-it-s-self-replicating-to-boot ?
<knightwise> MooDoo: i'm eating "Frusties"
<Myrtti> Daviey: yeah
<Daviey> nice
<popey> foobarry: reminder - airfix and hornby calendar â»
<foobarry> popey: thanks i just did them a few mins ago â»
<foobarry> did you get a reminder from facebook or something?
<foobarry> scalextric too!
<popey> no, i set a reminder in my to-do app
<foobarry> the hornby clues are weird
<foobarry> i'd love to win a hornby set
<foobarry> worth building a 30k extension for ;P
<knightwise> darn.. i forgot to adjust the power settings of the remote machine ... thats why I cant reach it any more.
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it fell asleep?
<knightwise> yep
<MartijnVdS> haha
<knightwise> Now i need a biorobot on site to wiggle the mouse
<foobarry> try blowing down the cat5 cable
<directhex> swing it round your head, so stuck bits can fly out
<knightwise> going to see if I can poke an engineer onsite
<MartijnVdS> are you using the correct wifi cables?
<knightwise> you guys should have your own stand up comedy show
<knightwise> somewhere in the center of a black hole
<MartijnVdS> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/68868664110/digging-into-kernel-internals
<dwatkins> just get one of these to move the mouse a bit every so often: http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/ or implement your own... http://lifehacker.com/5896093/use-an-analog-alarm-clock-to-disable-forced-screensavers
<knightwise>                   http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/ or implement your own... http://the-gadgeteer.com/2010/12/05/wiebetech-mouse-jiggler-review/
<knightwise> slrr
<knightwise> ggaaah !
<knightwise> not my day today :)
<knightwise> thanx for the tips
<knightwise> love the clock one :)
<knightwise> http://mousejiggler.codeplex.com/
<knightwise> this is a software version of it
<dwatkins> yeah, I saw, neat idea that one too.
<foobarry> does it work on joggler?
<popey> joggler jiggler
<foobarry> you can get jogglers for peanuts now
<foobarry> what power supply do they need?
<directhex> if you have a loose power connector, do you need to joggle it?
<foobarry> Â£15 without power supply
<foobarry> 5V, 4000mA DC hmmm i'll pass
<foobarry> people are paying big money on ebay for the hp touchpad...crazy
<knightwise> hp touchpad ?
<knightwise> aha
<knightwise> webos
<foobarry> still commanding higher prices that what people paid for it
<foobarry> mine wouldn't fetch that much since i've hacked it open twice
<knightwise> there..
<knightwise> remote access restored
<knightwise> biorobot did his work ok :)
<knightwise> installed the mouse jiggle app and tweaked the power settings
<foobarry> phew. thought i'd cracked my phone screen but it was the screen protector starting to degrade after 4 yrs on my phone
<dwatkins> I forget I have a screen protector, mine's thankfully not had that problem yet
 * MartijnVdS never uses those
<foobarry> my tablet has one too because styli tend to scratch
<awilkins> I had one of those "Invisible Shield" ones on my N900 because it had a plastic resistive screen
<foobarry> i didn't know they were resistive
<awilkins> I dropped the first one on a printout and it peeled off the top layer
<awilkins> I swore a lot, and then went to town on it trying to damage it
<awilkins> I was rather impressed with how much abuse it too
<foobarry> not as much as you abused nokia for withdrawing it?
<awilkins> Couldn't puncture it with a ballpoint even trying very hard
<awilkins> (the screen protector)
<awilkins> The next one I put on in the bathroom after running the shower for 10 minutes to haze the dust out of the air
<awilkins> Zero bubbles, to date it's stayed on perfectly and never showed any signs of damage (my daughter now has the N900 as an audio player)
<foobarry> bathrooms also good as not v carpeted
<awilkins> My bathroom has a laminate floor
<foobarry> think i have stone floor
<awilkins> I liked the N900 but not how it was hobbled by Elop killing the development team
<foobarry> never used the underfloor heating tho
<foobarry> lamost bought a n900 but got the desire which i still have
<awilkins> Underfloor is supposed to be very efficient
<awilkins> Have a Nexus 4 now
<awilkins> No screen protector
<foobarry> :-0
<awilkins> Don't need it, not a mark on the glass
<foobarry> i like to keep things shop-fresh
<MartijnVdS> same with my galaxy nexus
<MartijnVdS> which was in my pocket for almost 2 years
<awilkins> Need a bumper case though - the bezel has at least 2 dings from when I thought it would be cool to have a nice slim smartphone
<awilkins> Yeah, the trick is to have a trouser pocket that you use for NOTHING else but your phone
<foobarry> my rubber case has saved me from a few drops onto concrete
<awilkins> No metal ever enters that pocket, no exceptions
<diplo> awilkins: +1
<diplo> Right pocket for phone, left pocket for change/wallet and keys if no jacket on
<awilkins> I'm a phone southpaw :-)
<BigRedS> I've got my phone in a case that makes it about the size of a house brick
<diplo> My phone is 2+ years old, no protective bumper or screen covers and still ok
<awilkins> I had a full mild steel and leather case for the N900
<diplo> Can't be bothered with those, just be careful :)
<awilkins> One of those expensive swanky fashion ones with the metal belt clip
<shauno> I don't 'do' cases.  ever since I got some sand inside one that did more damage than I ever could have without a case
<directhex> i used my lumia 800 case
<directhex> but that's a rare exception
<directhex> before that, last cased phone i had was... the bundled leather case with the motorola startac
<awilkins> I used my RAZR without a case
<awilkins> But it was made of metal and all the shiny parts were inside
<awilkins> Still have it but the battery is probably buggered
<awilkins> Kept it as a "going out on the lash" phone for a while
<directhex> i'm bad at getting drunk
<foobarry> a friend was showing me his new S3 today which he bought because his htc (not that old) had gone slow
<awilkins> I'm waay too good at it
<foobarry> i facepalmed and told him about CM
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: which is slow too, on old phones
<foobarry> it was a recent one
<MartijnVdS> fial
<directhex> android does that.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not always
<directhex> mostly facebook integration to blame
<foobarry> android suffers terribly from cruft build up
 * awilkins hasn't installed Farcebook
<MartijnVdS> ah. That explains it -- I don't have FB
<awilkins> My wife just uses it from the browser, even on her phone
<foobarry> clearing caches and regularly deleting app data helps but is tedious
<foobarry> i should just restore from a nadroid backup instead
<foobarry> the fb app is good now
<davmor2> foobarry: you'd of thought that someone would of written an app for that :D
<foobarry> there is SD maid etc but they aren't grreat at it
<awilkins> Just do a factory reset and let the Chocolate Factory restore your phone from the Cloud ?
<foobarry> google don't backup my phone
<foobarry> not knowingly anyway
<awilkins> That's an ironic quit messge.
<davmor2> foobarry: do you log into google at any point?  If so then I bet it stores a fair whack of your info automagically
<foobarry> probab
<foobarry> its mostly to avoid confusion tbh
<foobarry> because i have mutliple devices
<foobarry> and i've run multiple versions of CM on my phone at various points
<foobarry> my phone perf is worse than the worst ever phone atm because i used s2e to enlarge my internal storage
<foobarry> the lag is horrific
<MartijnVdS> I just bought a Nexus 5
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you like?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I love it
<MartijnVdS> though I have to admit I'm not someone who installs 100.000 apps "just because"
<dwatkins> I ran out of storage on my Android phone because I like having lots of apps.
<MartijnVdS> I have.. 6 apps, I guess?
<dwatkins> I uninstalled Facebook because it wanted to borg my phone. I just use it in the browser on Android now.
<MartijnVdS> Twitter, some sort of GPS thing, a bus times thing, an app that lets me park without buying a ticket, Vodafone account status thingy, Runkeeper
<MartijnVdS> oh and a podcast tool. 7
<foobarry> why u need new phone then?
<foobarry> a phone from 2007 could do that :D
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes, but not with 25 megabits/second LTE ;)
<foobarry> ah
<foobarry> o lots of browings for you
<MartijnVdS> google music :)
<dwatkins> I mostly use my phone for streaming music from http://di.fm/ (I have infinite bandwidth thanks to Three)
<foobarry> i stream from my mp3 player
<foobarry> from internal storage
<dwatkins> I used to have a 32 GB iPhone, but it kinda went in the canal.
<foobarry> less painful than what i first read that sentence as
<awilkins> You need a very specialised kind of case for that malarkey
<directhex> urgh. Lightning in 12.04 and Thunderbird in 12.04 are subtly incompatible
<foobarry> WFM
<foobarry> lightning 2.6.2
<foobarry> tb 24.10
<directhex> foobarry, 12.04 has 2.6.2 and TB 24.1.1
<directhex> where you need lightning 2.6.3, or invite mails are not successfully sent
<dwatkins> awilkins: yeah, I'm tempted to get an Otterbox one.
<awilkins> dwatkins, I was referring to the use that foobarry misconstrued... but the Otterbox might suffice for that ...
<dwatkins> haha, ok
<awilkins> Hmm, I'm always leery of using Runkeeper because I'll have to carry my phone when I run
<awilkins> And that means getting a "hey, steal me" strap or something
<dwatkins> I use Strava when I cycle to/from work, but I've managed to forget to zip-up the pocket in my jacket a couple times.
<awilkins> Does it have voice commands?
<dwatkins> I also got one of those armbands, but that means I have to take the phone out of its case.
<awilkins> Just wondering if I could rig something like a back holster and only have a voice interface to it
<dwatkins> awilkins: not sure, Endomondo's app tells you every mile how long you've been travelling, iirc.
<awilkins> Then it's just a pair of black headphones disappearing into your neckline and noone thinks "Mmmm, iPhoney Goodness"
<awilkins> Anyone else notice that the UK builds of Android don't do the "Ok, Google" activation thing?
<dwatkins> I have a bluetooth headset that looks like a dogtag, so I just connect my black Sony headphones to that.
<awilkins> Probably clashes with the GCHQ voice monitoring app...
 * awilkins waves at Menwith Hill
<dwatkins> I would love to do one of those balloon flights.
<foobarry> directhex: restarted TB, now have 24.1.1
<foobarry> its buggered up my exchange calendar
<foobarry> why oh why...
<foobarry> now have 2.6.3 lightning but still broke
<bigcalm> Installing a .deb from a site instead from USC, should these warnings really stop me from installing? http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/synergy.1.4.15.beta.deb.png
 * bigcalm pokes davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: no idea but lintian normally checks for the validity of a package so if there are lots of errors I would be a little concerned
<bigcalm> davmor2: does it do more checking than the warnings shown? Wondering if the permissions is a big problem or not
<bigcalm> It appears to be setting the ownership to my user rather than root
<davmor2> bigcalm: not sure.  I think there is a doc on litian on the wiki one second
 * bigcalm installs from the cli and sees no warnings
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: meh I can't find it now
<bigcalm> davmor2: life goes on :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's because dpkg -i doesn't run a check :P
<foobarry> directhex: works again now
<directhex> go go gadget thunderpony
<Myrtti> I hadn't realised trying to find a nice car was this difficult
<awilkins> Myrtti, What you after?
<awilkins> My needs are simple, so I usually go for the cheapest but nicest quality I can get
<awilkins> First car : Daewoo Matiz. Â£8,300 (14 years ago)
<Seeker`> Myrtti: golf / audi ftw
<awilkins> Most recent car : Skoda Citigo (Â£8,300) :
<awilkins> No cars in between
<Myrtti> well it's not directly for me (yet, since I don't have a licence yet) but automatic. Been looking at Volvo V50's since we might get a dog at some point and having an estate would be especially nice then
<Myrtti> the old car was Rover75
<foobarry> focus ftw
<foobarry> i drive a focus estate atm, because i had to sell my lovely seat ibiza when the baby came
 * popey hugs his v70
<AlanBell> with freakishly long arms
 * TheOpenSourcerer is on his 2nd V70
<Myrtti> AlanBell: let me guess, do you have a v70 too?
<foobarry> the alan club
 * Myrtti nods
<AlanBell> Myrtti: not quite, I have an S reg fiesta at the moment
<foobarry> it could fit in the volvo
<TheOpenSourcerer> And a small van AlanBell
<AlanBell> and a mercedes, yes
<davmor2> Myrtti: I'm not sure what's hard then?  Goto autotrader.co.uk type in v50 done ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The funny thing is. My wife wants me to have the Volvo so she can take the kids camping once or twice a year. And then she needs a 60L topbox too ;-)
<foobarry> i bought a top box this year
<Myrtti> davmor2: well we've been doing that but it's the analytical side that's kicking in
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd much rather a nice small car that uses less fuel and is a bit more "sporty". But she won;t let me :-(
<foobarry> 250L
<Myrtti> we have a Google spreadsheet. Nuff said.
<foobarry> the seat ecomotive uses as much as a prius but is Â£5k less
<awilkins> People justify whatever they buy as "worth it" because they bought it. 'nuff said.
<foobarry> prius has more to go wrong IMO
<TheOpenSourcerer> Before Volvos my previous car was a shiny BMW 325 Convertible
<awilkins> Ah, yeah, would not buy a Prius
<awilkins> Not had one
 * directhex has a prius
<foobarry> was that your mid life crisis car?
<foobarry> (the BMW)
<awilkins> But it seems a terrible waste of complexity and energy to hump that huge battery around all over the place
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah. That was my pre-kids and plenty of cash car
<awilkins> Would much rather have something small
<foobarry> my friend used to belong to a rowing club and suddenly a load of men went and bought convertible porsches etc and wore leather jackets and ray bans
<Myrtti> Renault Fluences are cheap ;-)
<Myrtti> (to buy atleast)
<Myrtti> also French
<awilkins> I rather like the look of the Lit Motors C1 but the chances of it being out any time soon are slim
<directhex> i'd buy another prius, at the right price.
<Myrtti> https://plus.google.com/u/0/100833008366289253433/posts/L4WEn3PTBwM
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right now, if I had a choice, I'd probably go for a decent spec new "A Class" merc, a Golf GTi or an A5.
<awilkins> I fervently wish that the material scientists would get off their arse and invent a battery that isn't rubbish.
<foobarry> almost got run over by a prius silently gliding off a driveaway the other day
<TheOpenSourcerer> They have - it's called a fuel-cell
<Seeker`> foobarry: they probably all realised that porches aren't actually that expensive if you don't buy them new, and realised that they didn't have anything else to spend money on :P
<Seeker`> *porsches
<ali1234> batteries have been getting better consistently for years. the problem is that all that stuff about "new more efficient CPUs" is all pure lies
<TheOpenSourcerer> In the future we may well have *MAHOOSIVE* capacitors built from Graphene that would deliver better performance than any current battery technology.
<directhex> petrol-electric hybrids are petrol cars which can get away with smaller engines than their size would suggest. they should not be regarded as anything else.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway - bored now. Going home. TTFN.
<popey> o/
<popey> I'd love a Tesla S or X
<Seeker`> foobarry: you can get a decent 2nd hand porsche for Â£10-Â£12k I think
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: When we doing our xmas luncheon again?
<popey> no idea
<popey> not this thursday
<popey> but sometime soon
<directhex> e.g. the 2nd gen prius is a fairly large 1.4 tonne car with a 1.5l engine which gets ~50mpg combined
<TheOpenSourcerer> not this week.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not next week.
<popey> ok
<TheOpenSourcerer> w/c 16th?
<popey> maybe
<TheOpenSourcerer> check with swmbo
<popey> wilco
 * awilkins is getting < 10p per mile out of his CitiGo
<awilkins> Trying to determine whether posh petrol or standard petrol is more efficient
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had a good idea. Pay my expenses before I go home... :-)
<directhex> awilkins, check the manual. there should be a recommended octane level which the engine is tuned for
<popey> heh
<awilkins> directhex, Inside the cap says "Super premium, 95 RON min"
<awilkins> directhex, But std. petrol in the UK is 95 RON
<popey> http://blog.shubh.am/prezi-bug-bounty/
<directhex> awilkins, in europe, 95 is "super premium"
<directhex> awilkins, so 95.
<awilkins> std. petrol...
<awilkins> Hmm, I should actually write down my fill costs and mileage
<diddledan> BOGOF
<diddledan> I just got an email from dominos - two for tuesday
<AlanBell> I once did a system that tracked sales responses to marketing offers, so you do a buy one get one free for a week on something and track whether it worked, so we had stuff with BOGOF in it all over the place in the test system. Then we got some other people to test it
<AlanBell> and they thought they would follow the bog off theme of the existing data
<shauno> I got to the point where I visited dominos in 'privacy mode' just to make sure they greeted everyone as 'pizza lover'
<popey> AlanBell: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57614011-94/firefox-os-fan-geeksphone-plans-high-end-revolution/
<ali1234> lol intel smartphones
<ali1234> "the year of the x86 smartphone" == "the yea of the linux desktop"
<ali1234> it's never going to happen because nobody wants a phone with a 2 hour battery
<directhex> that's not the issue
<directhex> intel smartphones are competitive with arm on battery life and on performance
<directhex> they are *not* competitive on ability to run android apps which ship ARM .so files, which is lots of them
<directhex> see also; MIPS smartphones
<ali1234> they're competitive on battery life and performance ie the battery lasts the same amount of time if you run them flat out
<directhex> and i don't know if they're competitive on price
<directhex> last year's intel chip, Medfield, was about the same as omap4 for battery life
<Seeker`> MIPS ftw
<ali1234> again, when you run them both flat out
<ali1234> or alternatively when you put them both in the deepest possible sleep state
<ali1234> the middle area of actual normal usage is the area where x86 just isn't competitive
<popey> ooh, new humble bundle
<popey> not a lot of linux content there
<shauno> yeah I've noticed that lately.  they've been attracting some more big labels, but skimping on the ports
<zleap> odd given that linux users were at one point the biggest financial contributors
<shauno> and I swear that serious sam icon is bono
<shauno> I dunno about biggest; normally they have the highest average, but lack the population
<foobarry> you've been framed is a weird programme. sometimes funny but often little kids hurting themselves quite badly
<shauno> kids are a lot more resillient than people give them credit for
<foobarry> sure but its not funny to see an adult drop a baby on the floor
<foobarry> nor grannies cracking their hip on the wedding floor
<ali1234> popey: garry's mod?
<ali1234> requires that you already own a source game
<foobarry> serious sam looks HL2ish
<foobarry> garrys mod looks portal
<ali1234> garry's mod is a source sandbox engine. its not a game
<foobarry> The current version, Garry's Mod 13, was released October 24, 2012. In March 2013 it was revealed that the game has made over 22 million dollars.[6] As of November 2013 the game has sold 3.5 million copies.[7]
<foobarry> wowza
<foobarry> looks like a bored teenagers dream
<MartijnVdS> like minecraft ;)
<foobarry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX6A0-7B4V0
<foobarry> 8.50 rollercoaster goes a big wrong
<MartijnVdS> sigh.. linux kernel vulnerability
<MartijnVdS> which means.. 6 USNs in my mailbox..
<MartijnVdS> no wait, 8
<shauno> (romanian accent) 10 new emails! ha ha ha
<shauno> I don't know if they have sesame street in the netherlands.  but I'm really, really bored
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes, we have it :)
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: link to kernelprob pleae?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: though his name isn't nearly as punny, as "Count" (the title) is "Graaf"
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2013-December/thread.html
<shauno> MartijnVdS: no offence, but your language is funny in a whole different way :)
<MartijnVdS> different than Irish, you mean? ;)
<shauno> oh irish is just absurd.  but that's not me, I just live here
<shauno> true story.  the only irish I know is 'mna' and 'fir'.  It works something like this.  You're at a pub, and you see these two words scribed on the doors of the facilities
<shauno> your nerd logic leads you to guess that f is feminine and m is masculine.  and mna is an anagram of man, after all
<shauno> you would be wrong, and you just learnt some irish you'd never forget
<foobarry> whole bunch on redhat too from last week http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2013-1645.html
<ali1234> clearly the one that ends in a vowel is feminine
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what's the etymology of that?
<ali1234> and the one that ends in a consonant is masculine
<foobarry> and fir, for some drunk people, they think fur = lady
<shauno> MartijnVdS: no idea, at all
<foobarry> everything points to mna=man
<foobarry> and everybody does it once, or stands back to watch others
<shauno> I have a theory that irish spellings are drawn by lottery.  8 years and I still can't link spellings to pronounciation
<foobarry> i also learned that you can't collect your coat from the cloakroom while the anthem is playing
<shauno> one parent gets to pick the name.  the other gets to pick scrabble tiles from a bag to decide how it's spelt
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nah that's Welsh
<shauno> but I have to say.  dutch is just as bad.
<shauno> what's that word?  free!  v, r, i j, free!
<shauno> eventually, someone has to point out that those letters are completely unrelated to the word
<MartijnVdS> shauno: you just have trouble with the dipthongs like "ij" (also "ei"), "ui" and "oe" :)
<shauno> and many, many more
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://translate.google.com/#nl/en/vrij -> let the Google woman pronounce it
<shauno> I'm struggling with slovak because they have sounds that simply don't exist in english
<MartijnVdS> shauno: s/in english//
<daftykins> shauno: when i was visiting an Irish friend she was sat by me saying to look up some etailer for a graphics card, she said the name but i could NOT translate it into what to type XD
<daftykins> i started mashing keys before the "what are you doing?" came up :D
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, interesting, I can keep my existing order and get one of those when they come out, I was waiting for specs and timescales
<shauno> daftykins: this is why I prefer immigrant taxi drivers.  I can't pronounce the name of my street.  I dread irish taxi drivers
<MartijnVdS> shauno: what does google say? :)
<daftykins> shauno: :D
<foobarry> drop you off on the corner of pronouncable street
<shauno> it doesn't have a little speaker icon for irish.  but it translates it to 'high meadow', which is ... very optimistic
<MartijnVdS> shauno: how is it written?
<shauno> cluainard
<shauno> although my other gripe .. the last place I lived, I found 4 different spellings
<daftykins> i'd guess at 'clway-nard'
<MartijnVdS> From Old Irish ard, from Proto-Celtic *ardwos (compare Welsh ardd) from Proto-Indo-European *hârhâdh-wo- (âhigh, steepâ) (compare Latin arduus, Ancient Greek á½ÏÎ¸ÏÏ (orthos, âstraightâ)).
<shauno> three of them on actual signs upon the road
<foobarry> sounds rather 3rd world
<foobarry> with development comes standardisation
<shauno> most of it's just highly confused because the "official" gaelic is a work of fiction.  and a relatively recent one
<shauno> so the local spelling doesn't always agree with the official
<shauno> if you divide ireland into 4 like a shield, each has its own traditional gaelic.  and the official gaelic is none of them
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and then there's Scottish gaelic
<shauno> but that's only used for postman pat :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: there's a whole BBC channel in that language!
<shauno> I lived in scotland for 9 or 10 years.  childrens TV was the only time I saw it used
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcalba/programmes/schedules/
<shauno> padraig post I remember .. danger mouse I'm aware existed, but doesn't come to mind
<daftykins> O_O
<shauno> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IZ8i2yYg5E   :)
<ali1234> hahaha that doesn't scan at all
<shauno> but currently, Å¥ is the bane of my existence.  it's described to me as ch, g, and t at the same time.  but apparently I can't even discern the sound, let alone reproduce it
<daftykins> yeah it's only in the first few years of life you can hear those quirky sounds
<daftykins> err, any, rather :D
<daftykins> maybe now it's just too late!
<shauno> right.  I'm too old.  thanks man :p
<daftykins> <3
<daftykins> thing is we were in Thailand, myself and friends - a local was saying a word and my friend was trying to pronounce it
<daftykins> i swear they were both saying the same thing, but the Thais were rolling around laughing
<shauno> yeah, that's the same situation I find myself in
<shauno> luckily it rarely alters the meaning.  it just makes me sound like foreigners who say thees instead of this
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> oh well.  I'm hoping it'll improve when I move there.  For now I can only practice at the cheese shop.  And my inner englishman prevents me from "hey, can I throw some random words at you to guage your reaction"
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> you should just pick random staff in shops for that
<shauno> well that's my problem.  there's very few slovak-speaking shops in Ireland
<shauno> so far I've found two.  one sells sheep's cheese & beer, and the other is on the opposite side of the island
<daftykins> hmmm
<daftykins> oh we're not talking Irish still 0o
<shauno> hah, sorry.  no interest in learning irish I'm afraid
<daftykins> nah i don't think i'd bother :D
<shauno> I'm trying to move east, but finding the phrases they teach you in books aren't the phrases people actually use
<daftykins> i didn't even know it has its' own language for so long
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> that's kinda like my school German vs. what Germans actually say
<shauno> eg, "would you like a bag" never features.  or "please don't give me a 20, you'll wipe out my change"
<shauno> I had one lady just grab my hand and just fish out the coins she needed.  I was actually trying to save the coins for the bus machine
<shauno> and then we have issues like .. my gf's father knows 5 words of english.  yes, no, please, beer, and peter.
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> there's some interesting bits though
<shauno> like they have no male form of 'nurse'.  nurse translates literally as "cute little sister of health."
<shauno> so if you're a male nurse, your job title is still Little Sister
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> so the gf's of Irish or Slovakian descent?
<shauno> slovak
<daftykins> sorry i seem to be failing to follow this eve
<daftykins> ah-haaar
<daftykins> hrmm wonder if that's where my Greek friend is
<daftykins> i mix up the slo's
<daftykins> nope she's in Slovenia :>
<shauno> how?  slovenicina vs slovencia.  easy :p
<daftykins> D:
<shauno> it could be worse.  my mother insists on calling it czechoslovakia
<daftykins> :S
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-04
<Devilsolution> yo
<Devilsolution> what the channel with loads of peoples in it?
<Devilsolution> how'd i search
<Devilsolution> ??/
<Azelphur> Devilsolution: that was vague
<Devilsolution> yeh major
<Devilsolution> im drunk
<MooDoo> morning all
<Myrtti> mÃ¶h
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Myrtti> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/casey-dreier/2013/20131108-we-need-you-to-stand-up-for-planetary-science.html http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/nasa-might-stop-exploring-the-planets-heres-why-thats-terrible/282012/ https://twitter.com/plutokiller/status/407947852002783233 :-(
<knightwise> morning everyone
<AlanBell> choo choo
 * AlanBell is on the eurotunnel 
<SuperMatt> morning
<knightwise> Hey AlanBell .. heading towards Belgium ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: Eurotunnel goes to France :P
<popey> http://www.blastem-game.com/ is a fun game â»
<directhex> USB type C connections announced. main feature: no more quantum right-way-up calculations, as it's reversible (like Lightning)
<directhex> popey, ^^
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<popey> saw someone mention that on G+ and it made me smile â»
<dwatkins> woohoo!
<bashrc> g'day
<MartijnVdS> directhex: [citation needed]
<dwatkins> I daren't imagine the amount of time wasted on getting USB plugs the wrong way up.
<bashrc> when you add it up around the world it must be thousands of years
<directhex> MartijnVdS,  http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_Releases/Type-C_PR_20131203_Final.pdf
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I get it right the first time 99% of the time
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm thinking of other people ;)
<dwatkins> popey: https://plus.google.com/113887142977624814920/posts/HZwsF121jFA
<bashrc> whichever way I initially try I can be sure it's the wrong way
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: I've heard people claim they have some kind of weird geometry, where turning it around *twice* makes it work
<bashrc> it's like a ritual
<directhex> MartijnVdS, it's quantum
<directhex> MartijnVdS, you don't know it's upside-down until you try to plug it in and the waveform collapses
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ah! that explains why my cables are so (en)tangled
<dwatkins> I have a 10-port USB hub on my desk, and it's still not enough.
<popey> i have 2x7 port â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: is it enough though?
<popey> at the moment
<directhex> i don't have a hub per se
<directhex> but i have a usb switch
<directhex> 4 device -> 2 host
<dwatkins> I didn't even know they existed. I have DVI switches with PS2 ports, though, I guess it's similar.
<dwatkins> Sadly my DVI switch is pretty useless, as it forces the resolution to get reset to something unuseably low.
<MartijnVdS> 320x200?
<dwatkins> Ok, not quite that bad ;)
<directhex> dwatkins, switches make EDID hard
<directhex> dwatkins, i use http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/cerulian-4-port-usb-20-switching-hub-n10jb
<dwatkins> directhex: yeah, I suspected that was the issue - mine was cheap from Maplin... it's now been discontinued.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wear Brown Shoes Day!  :-D
<foobarry> ewww
<SuperMatt> dafuq?
 * popey has brown slippers
 * dwatkins has white^Wgrey trainers
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: see G+ ;)
<SuperMatt> I'm just wearing my black converses
<JamesTait> I'm wearing the same black Karrimor boots I always do.
<popey> i need some new boots
<dwatkins> popey: http://www.philosophersguild.com/Freudian-Slippers.html ;)
<MartijnVdS> New Balance walking shoes++
<foobarry> sweet. i used to have this aston martin when i was a kid (still have it) http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/3382048.htm
<foobarry> the ejector seat worked in mine though
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm>    %up               99.959 | since                     Thu Feb 14 23:02:18 2013
<bigcalm> Such stats are silly, but they still please me. Bytemark vps still going strong
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mine was rebooted several times 2 weeks ago
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the "head" crashed twice (bigv)
<bigcalm> Ah, it would cost me more to move to bigv for the same spec that I have
<MartijnVdS> it was cheaper for me :)
<bigcalm> Swings and roundabouts
<foobarry> yesss got my screen protector on first go
<foobarry> no bubbles or dust
<foobarry> i get terrible OCD with bubbles under scren protectors
<Myrtti> "We believe that we could have offered a better price for this item in our Black Friday Lightning Deals promotion. Therefore, we are refunding you Â£4.00 in relation to your order."
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Do it in the bathroom after having a shower. The steam will take the dust out of the air.
<Myrtti> "ok"
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: yes but i'm impatient too
<bigcalm> Myrtti: Amazon are weirdly nice like that sometimes
<foobarry> its also the quality of your cleaning cloth (i have a poor one)
<directhex> Myrtti, yeah, wife got that
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Impatience and OCD...hardly a winning combination. :-)
<directhex> Myrtti, for a netgear thingy
<Myrtti> directhex: yeah, that's what I bought too
<TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: "We deliberately charged more than we strictly needed to in order to issue these refunds and get some sweet, sweet PR."
<directhex> Myrtti, *astonishingly*, it works well
<TwistedLucidity> Cynical, me?
<Myrtti> we haven't even plugged ours in yet
<Myrtti> bought it mainly for garden / raspi use
<diplo> Anyone recommend a cheapish router that I can run openwrt on ? I'm not the most flush person at the mo
<foobarry> do yo *need* one?
<directhex> Myrtti, i get 2 bars in the bedroom from the homehub, but irc & web pages start timing out silently dozens of times a day. no problem at all since using the netgear ext thingy
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I've got a Buffalo unit that runs DD-WRT (so openWRT should work too). Only real negative against it is how the Ethernet ports are bridged; can't separate traffic. Cost about Â£80.
<diplo> Well I'd like something more configurable than the sky ones
<diplo> DD-WRT is ok for me
<diplo> OpenWRT was the first on mind, the sky router I have is rubbish and wanted to try something that I can control more.
<Myrtti> I feel like it's time for a reminder of "do not buy belkin network gear" - even when belkin can't be flashed with openwrt/ddwrt
<TwistedLucidity> diplo: I have a Buffalo AirStation NFINITI: WZR-HP-AG300H-EU. As I said, the only thing I can't seem to do is separate traffic by physical port; so hard to have "work" and "play" networks.
<TwistedLucidity> But then I'm pretty crap at networking.
<foobarry> asus do a cheapish one
<foobarry> its on the ddwrt wiki or maybe the openwrt wiki
<diplo> OK great, will take a look thanks
<diplo> Looking on there now foobarry, downside is so many that I can't see price simply without checking
 * popey hugs his Netgear WNDRs running dd-wrt and openwrt
<foobarry> http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=wlanrout&xf=758_OpenWrt&sort=p
<kiran> hello
<kiran> anyone to help me
<kiran> E: Syntax error /etc/apt/apt.conf:3: Extra junk at end of file
<jussi> anyone here know if there is similar things to this but for the UK? http://www.eezy.fi/english
<Guest33366> i have above error while using apt-get
<Guest33366> E: Syntax error /etc/apt/apt.conf:3: Extra junk at end of file
<diplo> Some cheap ones there foobarry  :)
<Guest33366> but syntax is correct
<Guest33366> i used ":" at the end but dont know why the error
<diplo> Not sure I could help Guest33366 but probably worth paste binning the config
<popey> Guest33366: pastebin your /etc/apt/apt.conf ?
<foobarry> yeah diplo, much cheaper than i expected
<Guest33366> Acquire::http::proxyâhttp://123070063:password@netmon.iitb.ac.in:80/â
<diplo> Those would do until I'm a little more flush next year
<Guest33366> this is the content of /etc/apt/apt.conf
<dvrr> haiiiiiiiiiii
<popey> Guest33366: those quotes look wrong
<popey> like smart unicode quotes
<Guest33366> popey: what wrong
<popey> also you probably need a space after "proxy"
<popey> â and â  look wrong
<popey> did you copy and paste directly from the file to here?
<Guest33366> this is what suggested in many pages
<popey> they should be "
<popey> which is a different character
<Guest33366> i also used semicolon at the end
<Guest33366> yes
<popey> just edit the file, remove the smart quotes and replace them with normal " quotes from your keyboard
<popey> you probably copy/pasted that content from a wordpress blog which tries to be clever and makes the quotes look like that
<Guest33366> okay i l try that
<directhex> definitely smart quotes to blame
<TwistedLucidity> Smart quotes in code exmaples are one of my pet hates. Makes me think "What did you draft this in? MS Word? Moron."
<Guest33366> thank you very much popey
<popey> np
<popey> foobarry: airfix/hornby reminder
<foobarry> thanks popey
<foobarry> i "know" some people who won stuff last year
<foobarry> no idea how many entries they get
<MartijnVdS> 4
<foobarry> if they appear on moneysaving expert then loads i expect
<foobarry> getting a cromwell tank for xmas
<dvrr> Tue Dec 03 15:05:50 2013 Initialization Sequence Completed With Errors ( see http://openvpn.net/faq.html#dhcpclientserv )     i recived this problem  openvpn please tel me how to resolve
<dvrr>  MANAGEMENT: >STATE:1386063350,CONNECTED,ERROR,192.1680.1,183.1.1.1
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: it tells you where to look for a solution
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: also, note the missing "." in 192.168.0.1
<directhex> yeah, that looks wron
<directhex> g
<MartijnVdS> (your log line has 192.1680.1)
<popey> ooh, virgin smartcall.. never heard of that before
<popey> thanks marketing mail from virgin
<dvrr>  MANAGEMENT: >STATE:1386063350,CONNECTED,ERROR,192.168.0.1
<davmor2> popey: yeah it just means that virgin spy on you through your webcam and only allow calls when you're not busy ;)
<foobarry> anyone used the o2 voip/sip service?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: "smartcall"? I is also Virgin customer, but don't get their mail (other than continual notifications of price hikes).
<popey> it was in that mail about price hikes that I just read about it
<dvrr>  MartijnVdS : no sorry my log line MANAGEMENT: >STATE:1386063350,CONNECTED,ERROR,192.168.0.1
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: I think you should look at that link in the first error message
<MartijnVdS> dvrr: the openvpn site has a *lot* of good documentation
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity, popey: I got it  too, the only thing is I get free calls on my mobile to any number so it's actually cheaper to use my mobile :D
<popey> i have another use case for it â»
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: If I ever have spare time, I think investing it in Asterisk (or similar) and a SIP service might be good. Virign's call charges are extortionate.
<dogmatic69> popey:  That virgin smartcall seems to be like facetime
<popey> not at all
<dogmatic69> facetime uses wifi for calls when available, to other apples only though
<popey> exactly, so not like that at all â»
<dogmatic69> same thing but different limits.
<davmor2> dogmatic69: all calls on virgin are basically routed in the same way as their internet is, so it's just using the internet to connect to the landline effectively.
<TwistedLucidity> Now deeply worried about what "use case" popey might have in mind for such a service.....
<popey> it lets you make *phone* calls
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: are you usually know by another nick?
<popey> its basically a sip client
<popey> so nothing like facetime which is a person to person video chat locked into one manufacturer
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: No, I am always me. Unless something has gone wrong....
<TwistedLucidity> Or some sod is imitating me....
 * popey suspect foobarry thinks TwistedLucidity is the guy who was banned yesterday by DJones 
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> i didn't but now i do
<popey> smartcall is useful for making calls from abroad via wifi.
<davmor2> popey: when DJones kicks people are they put in his locker?
<popey> â»
<popey> Sent to the bottom of the deep blue IRC
<foobarry> groan
<davmor2> popey: Wait what IBM have irc
<popey> â»
<TwistedLucidity> Serious question: Anyone made Bumblebee and nouveau work together? Got the proprietary drivers to work OK(ish, slow though). But not nouveau.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: are you on Saucy?
<TwistedLucidity> Get some libdrm version error gubbins.
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Yes, Kubuntu 13.10 64bit to be precise.
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you just need nvidia-319 and nvidia-prime no need for bumblebee
<TwistedLucidity> Got that to work OK. But wanted to try nouveau, so I purged the proprietary nvidia stuff.
<TwistedLucidity> Wanted to see if the GPL-only kernel calls had any effect.
<TwistedLucidity> But I just get: [XORG] (EE) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] failed to set drm interface version.
<TwistedLucidity> Full details here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2191257
<davmor2> yeah bumblebee is really targeted at nvidia not so much nouveau, however nvidia have as I understand it started to work with the nouveau guys and I believe there is an experimental version of nouveau that supports optimus iirc
<TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Ooooo, freakin' awesome news. That with kernel 3.12 might be a goer y'think?
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: let me double check I'm sure I saw it though
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/Optimus/
<davmor2> Yay I knew something \o/
<TwistedLucidity> Thanks davmor2, I think I now have a Chrimbo project
<davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yw
<TwistedLucidity> I had stumbled across "Switcheroo" but for some reason thought it was old-hat (Optimus vs Primus)
<TwistedLucidity> Hmm...I have Intel wired to internal panel, nvidia wire to DVI-out. It is possible to marshal the nvidia output across to the panel (two X servers) and, from what I understand, it's that kind of trickery that's a bit sucky.
<MooDoo> hello again, back from the dentist
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: and?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: damage? ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: all ook :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Ook!
<MooDoo> lol typo
<popey> brother just popped round with a little samsung phone he got free with a tablet
<popey> quite nice little handset, much better than the big-ass phablet things
<davmor2> MooDoo: your the back of a dentist :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: smarty pants :p
 * popey stabs mesa and stuff
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519389/
<popey> libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
<popey> when i load steam it keeps pointing me to https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9938-EYZB-7457
<popey> and when i try and run games I get a dialog which says "Could not find required OpenGL entry point 'glGetError'! Either your video card is unsupported, or your OpenGL driver needs to be updated"
 * popey tickles directhex â»
<davmor2> popey: hang on I understand stabbing mesa, but what the hell did stuff do to deserve getting stabbed ;)
<popey> it was in the area at the time
<davmor2> popey: I'm just glad the cats weren't, I'll be keeping my eye on you and ringing the RSPCA the minute I thing they are in danger :D
<foobarry> whats the best way to get a web page to rotate the pictures that it shows? some javascript malarkey?
<davmor2> s/thing/think
<foobarry> i need it for a dashboard display
<davmor2> foobarry: to be honest dashboards don't make for good displays, windscreens are way better :)  On a more serious note can't html5/css cover rotation?
<foobarry> maybe, i dunno?
<foobarry> wanna rotate 3 pages or so
<SuperMatt> how does one find out what filesystem is on a partition from the command line?
<foobarry> the mount command
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: one that's already mounted? mount
<DJones> Hmmh, Sky Go Tablet released for pretty much all unrooted tablets (excluding Transformer TF101 & Kindle devices)
<SuperMatt> it's not mouted
<SuperMatt> *mounted
<dwatkins> SuperMatt: otherwise, you could examine the first few bytes of it, I'm sure there's a diagnostic command which does this such as fsck.
<dwatkins> back later, lunchtime
<popey> blkid
<SuperMatt> so just blkid /dev/blah?
<popey> https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Deployment_Guide/s2-sysinfo-filesystems-blkid.html
<SuperMatt> thanks popeypants
<BigRedS> Ooh, that's a thing I've meant to look up before
<BigRedS> handy
<directhex> popey, sounds like a fried 32-bit opengl install
<TwistedLucidity> It's 2013...why is so much stuff still locked into 32bit?
<MooDoo> coz no one knows how to deal with 64bit yet
<MooDoo> give it 10 years :)
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ MooDoo
<popey> directhex: something specific I can uninstall / reinstall /purge perhaps?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: Because Windows is mostly mixed (lots of 32-bit Win7 installs and XP still out there, it's easier to just provide one 32bit installer)
<directhex> popey, which 3d driver?
<popey> nvidia
<popey> 319
<MooDoo> wow AlanBell I see the pi project is getting well funded :D
<TwistedLucidity> nvidia-319 reinstall?
<popey> tried that
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, and nvidia-219-updates, nvidia-settings-319-updates etc
<popey> it's something else, as directhex suggests, a 32-bit lib or something
<TwistedLucidity> And you are on 64bit?
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> try refreshing libgl1-mesa-dri:i386
<TwistedLucidity> Force the 32bit install. sudo apt-get install thingy:i386
<MartijnVdS> that package contains 2 .so files with "swrast" in the name
<directhex> popey, the 64-bit nvidia-319 package includes both 32 and 64-bit libraries. following others' instructions is likely ging to break it harder
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519622/
<popey> every 32-bit package I have installed
<directhex> booting my desktop, to cross-check again
<directhex> st
<directhex> popey, run this: "sudo update-alternatives --config i386-linux-gnu_gl_conf"
<popey> * 0            /usr/lib/nvidia-319-updates/alt_ld.so.conf   8602      auto mode 1            /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/ld.so.conf      500       manual mode 2            /usr/lib/nvidia-319-updates/alt_ld.so.conf   8602      manual mode
<popey> oof
<popey> sorry
<directhex> hm, so it's set to use nvidia there
<dwatkins> I looked at the sun and now have a big green blob in front of my vision #RareBritishProblems
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: stop looking at The Sun then
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it just appeared in-between the window blinds
<dwatkins> I'm not used to the sky being clear.
<foobarry> clear grey
<directhex> popey, nothing to lose from just doing an apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-319-updates, to force reinstallation of possibly corrupt files
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519638/
<popey> yeah, did that earlier
<popey> when I run steam now, it asks me to install libgl1-mesa-dri:i386
<popey> if I press ctrl-c, i can open steam and all is fine, but it prompts me to install that every time
<popey> (I removed it)
<dwatkins> does it tell you how (for the non-advanced users), popey?
<directhex> popey, ok, permit it. your nvidia package should stop mesa from taking over the opengl library
<popey> ok
<directhex> libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 and libgl1-mesa-glx:i386
<popey> install both of those?
<popey> Suggested packages: libglide3:i386
<popey> OpenGL GLX context is not using direct rendering, which may cause performance problems.
<popey> For more information visit https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9938-EYZB-7457.
<popey> still getting that popup
<popey> libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
<popey> libGL error: Try again with LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose for more details.
<popey> all that in the steam startup console
<directhex> popey, you installed those packages & restarted steam?
<popey> yes
<foobarry> tries running steam
<foobarry> only 210MB of updates :-|
<popey> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519651/
<directhex> find ~/.local/share/Steam/ -name libGL.so
<directhex> er
<directhex> find ~/.local/share/Steam/ -name libGL.so\*
<popey> 4 of them
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519660/
 * foobarry realises he has a lot of games he never played 
<directhex> popey, ldd ~/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/steam
<directhex> no, wait, that's no use
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519665/
<directhex> which games do you have installed?
<popey> lots
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519671/
<directhex> can you run ldd on a game binary? e.g. ldd ~/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Super\ Hexagon/x86/superhexagon.x86
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519675/
<directhex> OK, so we see the problem
<directhex> now i wonder why it's happening
<popey> libglut and friends?
<directhex> cat /etc/ld.so.conf
<popey> include /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*.conf
<foobarry>  Valve have joined the Linux Foundation.ï»¿
<directhex> cat /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6519681/
<directhex> popey, hm. one of those is bad.
<directhex> popey, grep mesa /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*
<popey> /etc/ld.so.conf.d/steam.conf:/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa
<popey> /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu_EGL.conf:/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/mesa-egl
<directhex> popey, ok, so that steam.conf i have never seen before, is what broke it
<directhex> popey, delete that, problem fixed
<popey> do i need to update anything?
<popey> ld something?
<directhex> sudo ldconfig
<popey> \o/
<directhex> dpkg -S etc/ld.so.conf.d/steam.conf ?
<directhex> i.e. which package created that faulty file?
<dwatkins> I couldn't find the user thing in Windows Server's control panel, and my first thought was "I'll just do it from the command line... oh wait." *sadface*
<popey> nothing found
<popey> thank you directhex, that's been bugging me for ages
<popey> wonder if ye-olde steam beta did it
<MartijnVdS> popey: you had one of the first betas, right?
<popey> yes
<popey> could be that i followed some guide from steamcommunity to fix it before asking you
<popey> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410/discussions/1/846939071105489121 looks plausible
<popey> opened Garrysmod to test it, worked fine
<popey> directhex: you have a ps vita?
<directhex> popey, i do not. we got a 3ds for xmas though
<popey> ah
<popey> just saw psvita games on your amazon wishlist
<directhex> that would be an awkward state to end up in wouldn't it
<popey> indeed
<MooDoo> directhex: i bought  my son the 2ds for christmas
<popey> thats a bizarre device
<MooDoo> popey: i saw a tae apart video for it, one huge screen...
<MooDoo> take
<popey> yeah
<directhex> MooDoo, wife and i have always played the Ace Attorney series together, and AA5 is for 3DS only...
<MooDoo> directhex: I can't watch 3d and my son wouldn't like it
<directhex> MooDoo, 3ds vs 2ds is mostly a cost decision. we got a 3ds xl with mario kart 7 for Â£130 in the amazon sales
<MooDoo> directhex: isn't the 2ds just a 3ds without the 3d and the ability to fold the clamshell?
<popey> mono speaker
<popey> harder to reach controls
<directhex> all of the above
<directhex> hard to fold a single LCD in half
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> Finally, they are fixing USB http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/4/5173686/usb-type-c-connector-specification-announced \o/
<Azelphur> No more 4th dimensional plugs.
<popey> right. so when I bitched about usb and said we should move to thunderbolt or similar everyone rounded on me
<popey> and now they're making a new connector (like thunderbolt) which isn't backwards compatible (like thunderbolt) and is reversible (like thunderbolt) its all good
 * Azelphur shrugs
<TwistedLucidity> Well....that's a really annoying bug in Inkscape. If an item has a stroke colour *and* it is really small, Inskscape refuses to print it even though it's clearly visible. You have to remove the stroke colour, which can mess up the diagram.
 * TwistedLucidity buys shares in USB adapter OEMs
<directhex> popey, thunderbolt's implementation is zany. the plugs are not 180-degree rotationally symmetrical. a small processor in the plug itself decides how to do the pin-out depending on which way up the plug is
<popey> there is that too
<directhex> also the DRM coprocessor in the plug
<MartijnVdS> also, the super-expensive cables
<MartijnVdS> (mostly a result of those chips)
<shauno> just trying to put php5 on Arch makes me very, very grateful for the debian layout of exploding the apache config in 500 files
<foobarry> i just crashed steam by clicking that big picture moed
<dwatkins> don't click it, then ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<directhex> crash reports are uploaded when you start steam
<foobarry> visible to user?
<foobarry> i don't see anything
<foobarry> its repeatable
<foobarry> is it complete garbage the idea that headphones need "bedding in"?
<foobarry> like breaking in a pair of shoes
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: not that I've heard
<foobarry> read it in a review, i think its bunk
<foobarry> also read from a different person that taken the badges off the sennheisers improved the bass :D
<foobarry> "owever removing the silver senn badges from either side released an absolute beast hiding in them. The bass is punchy, deep (very VERY deep), and nicely shaped and does not take over the stage. The stage is increased by the removal as well. Sadly the the bass is slightly more sibilant at times, but hey it's Â£16!! I should imagine padding the inside of the badge piece would have a similar effect as removing them, the idea is to stop echoin
<dwatkins> I can't remember the last time I bought a new pair of headphones.
<foobarry> wifey getting me some cheap sennheisers for xmas
<MooDoo> i need a new pair, only one side of mine works currently
<foobarry> MooDoo: need a cheap pair?
<shauno> I got mine at an airport when I discovered the rubber thingies had gone missing from the pair I was travelling with
<MooDoo> foobarry: i've got some of them now, they are ace
<MooDoo> foobarry: nah! I'll cope with what I have for now :D but thanks :D
<shauno> iirc the pair before that were an airport emergency too
<foobarry> i just need something comfy to block noise from upstairs offices
<foobarry> i sit below a theatre hall and scrape shuffle plonk ORCHESTRA scuffle scrap clap all day long
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Sounds (groan) like you want som noise cancelling headphones
<dwatkins> noise cancellation works best with "regular" (i.e. predictable) noise
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: those work best on "regular" noise, like air conditioning units, etc.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: car engines
<foobarry> sounds like someone is hitting a pipe with a hammer atm
<foobarry> then 100 chairs shuffle
<foobarry> makes you tired on days like this
<arsen> hm, just installing 13.10 desktop on some new hardware, i seem to just get a black screen with cursor but no GDM/desktop.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: shiny :)
<arsen> hopefully, but pretty dull at the moment... nice new haswell aint much use right now lol.
<MartijnVdS> arsen: what kind of hardware is it?
<arsen> suspect it doesnt like my new GPUs, AMD 7970's
<arsen> nomodeset is your friend. :)
<MartijnVdS> ah, I don't buy AMD :)
<popey> +1000
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS People are claiming AMD >>> nvidia. Certainly for lappies
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I have all-intel
<MartijnVdS> * > nvidia :)
<MartijnVdS> (at least wrt. driver hassle)
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: BURN THE HERETIC (even though yer correct)
<foobarry> giffgaff payback time
<foobarry> i think i've reached the end of the road with giffgaff recruitment
<foobarry> friend of mine chose to pay Â£27 per month with o2 instead even though he doesn't make phone calls
<foobarry> people aren't interseted cos they think they know best
<shauno> Any clues how I get sudo to obey /etc/environment ?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sudo -s instead of -i ? sudo -H ?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or check /etc/pam.d
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and compare sudo to.. say.. su or ssh ?
<MartijnVdS> one that works :)
<shauno> this is meant to work.  but it's all horribly broken :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: sudo -E -> preserve environment
<MartijnVdS> shauno: -H -> set $HOME to target user's home
<shauno> yeah that one I've found, causes more problems
<shauno> I just want to persist http_proxy.  but setting it in env_keep doesn't, setting it in /etc/environment doesn't, etc
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<shauno> I'd love to force devs to work from behind a proxy for one day a week, just so they can find out how horribly they handle them
<MartijnVdS> I'd love to ban proxies
<foobarry> did anyone read the graphene article in the guardian
<foobarry> i have an argument with my friend whether there's scope for a olne genius in his shed anymore
<MartijnVdS> olne?
<foobarry> lone
<MartijnVdS> https://www.google.nl/maps/preview#!q=olne ?
<foobarry> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEqWzw8A9g#t=12 happiest penguin ever
<foobarry> SNOW SNOW SNOW SNOW
<foobarry> others: yeah, seen it
<bashrc> snow in winter?  It'll never happen
<popey> http://www.fastcodesign.com/3021230/apple-its-time-to-nuke-the-iphones-red-battery-alert
<popey> thats fun
<shauno> I always laugh when my laptop does that.  it goes red at 10%, warning me that there's only an hour left
<foobarry> my laptop dies before it gets a chance to go red
<ali1234> shauno: proxy, 1GB ram, intel graphics, no windows key
<arc__> Hello
<arc__> How do i connect to a vnc on ubuntu 12.04 lts
<popey> you want to remotely control a 12.04 system?
<arc__> No
<popey> i dont understand what you want then â»
<arc__> I want tok control my mac that has vnc via my linux lap
<popey> ah ok
<arc__> :)
<popey> 12.04 ships with a vnc client i believe
<arc__> So how do i access it or use it
<popey> open the dash and type vnc ?
<arc__> I have gnome enabled
<popey> not unity?
<popey> ok, so somewhere in the menu there may be a remote control app, otherwise you can find one in ubuntu software center
<arc__> Too slow
<popey> what's too slow?
<arc__> Unity
<popey> ah
<popey> ok
<arc__> There is no remote control app
<arc__> But i can connect my lap vnc via my mac
<arc__> Rdp
<popey> yes, hence I said search for vnc in ubuntu software centre?
<directhex> "vinagre"
<popey> thats the one
<directhex> that's the easiest package for what you want
<arc__> Kk
<arc__> I have a mac and a Linux laptop what is the best on to make into a local file server
<AlanBell> evening all
<foobarry> bruce almighty is pretty much the same as the mask
 * MartijnVdS considers upgrading to trusty
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: don't
<foobarry> i tried t'other day
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<foobarry> didn't work too well
<foobarry> i.e. logging out
<MartijnVdS> who logs out?
<MartijnVdS> weird man! ;)
<foobarry> had lightdm, unity , X issues trying to get back in
<ali1234> foobarry: that's fixed
<ali1234> i fixed it
<MartijnVdS> \o/ ali1234
<foobarry> from the 30 nov build?
<ali1234> bug 1256150
<lubotu3> bug 1256150 in lightdm (Ubuntu Saucy) "Xorg guest session fails to start if the user has logged out and logged in again" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256150
<foobarry> \o;
<ali1234> i dunno if the fix is packaged yet
<foobarry> i mean \o/
<foobarry> \o; looks like saturday night fever
<MartijnVdS> Or a non-functioning arm
<foobarry> hand on hip
<MartijnVdS> wut.. apache segv'd?!
<foobarry> i tried out the disabling of global menu in trusty
<MartijnVdS> and?
<foobarry> sort of worked but the aforementioned bug stopped me testing properly
<foobarry> i.e. it worked once but not twice
<directhex> marketing /o\ http://kotaku.com/nintendos-new-wii-u-commercials-ignore-the-consoles-b-1476637030
<popey> directhex: you have a wii u?
<AlanBell> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-raspberry-pi-build-cluster-for-ubuntu/x/5206923 so close :)
<popey> yeah!
<popey> you should tweet that â»
<zleap> we are building a pi cluster at the next exeter lug meet
<zleap> just generally not to run ubuntu
<ali1234> AlanBell: you spelled my name wrong
<ali1234> i wouldn't care but it's the part that is in my nick
<ala1234> also it came out closer to 0.3 than 0.4
 * popey attempts to make a chimney sweep brush using his 3doodler
<popey> this could be fun
<ala1234> hey popey, you know those glasses you posted on g+, did you make them "flat" in 3 parts and then stick them together?
<popey> yes
<ala1234> cos they look very flat
<popey> single layer
<popey> only took about 30 mins all told
<ala1234> nice
 * AlanBell fixes Alistair's spelling :)
<ali1234> yay
<AlanBell> sorry about that, I am normally quite careful with names
<ali1234> i don't mind - everyone spells it wrong
<ali1234> in a variety of ways
<ali1234> the package is apparently in the UK already btw
<AlanBell> gosh, that was fast
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-05
<popey> ali1234: http://www.the3doodler.com/project/hipster-glasses/
<popey> has a pdf
<aquarius> gah, anyone know about sendmail? Some mails my server sends arrive, some don't, and I don't know why
<ali1234> i know a little bit
<ali1234> do you really use sendmail, or postfix?
<aquarius> I believe it's actually sendmail
<aquarius> how can I tell?
<vipintruder> aquarius: Probably because your ip (assuming it be static) is included in some blacklist.
<aquarius> ali1234, it seems to be actually sendmail
<aquarius> vipintruder, I don't believe that that's the problem, because I get the mails (using gmail, although forwarded from my isp's mail server) and others using gmail don't
<ali1234> check for /var/spool/postfix
<aquarius> it might be the problem, but I don't know how to work that out. The mail's being sent from an Azure server, running discourse.
<ali1234> if you find it, look for bounces and other errors
<aquarius> and it's not a static IP: the machine gets a dhcp addrss
<aquarius> ali1234, the logs either don't tell me what the problem is, or they do and I just don't understand it.
<ali1234> make sure that your canonical domain name is actually correct for the mails you are sending
<vipintruder> ok, good
<vipintruder> ok
<ali1234> ie make sure you're not sending mail from root@azureserver12345.microsoft.com
<ali1234> that's not going to work
<ali1234> also make sure you have configured spf for your domain
<aquarius> ali1234, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6522739/ are the relevant lines for one email send attempt from /var/log/mail.log
<aquarius> ali1234, what's a canonical domain name?
<ali1234> i mean fully qualified domain name...
<aquarius> "DSN: Service unavailable" seemed like a relevant error message but I don't think it is; googling it comes up with a zillion people who have it, and a bunch of answers which aren't helpful.
<aquarius> ali1234, well. the machine that this is running on is an Azure VM. community.badvoltage.org resolves to that VM. The mail is being sent from info@badvoltage.org. As noted, some emails do get through, so they're not all dying.
<ali1234> that log says the message was accepted
<ali1234> maybe you are getting greylisted (setting up SPF should fix that)
<aquarius> OK. I run this box, but jono has the DNS for badvoltage.org. Is SPF a DNS thing? That is: does jono need to set it up?
<ali1234> you don't appear to have any SPF records
<ali1234> yes it is a DNS thing
<ali1234> basically, in SPF, you add a entry in your domain that isn't a hostname: instead it says "this IP address/host is allowed to send mail from badvoltage.org"
<aquarius> worryingly, I am reasonably sure that jono has the DNS for badvoltage.org at 1and1, and according to http://faq.1and1.co.uk/communication/e_mail/general/9.html they don't let you set up SPF records.
<ali1234> 1and1 are craaaaaaaaaaap
<ali1234> move it to gandi.net
<aquarius> If I have to ask him to move the DNS I will, but before I do that, are we sure that SPF is the problem here?
<aquarius> I don't want to go through a bunch of hassle like that and then discover that the *actual* problem is that I need to put work_properly=yes in /etc/sendmail/conf :)
<ali1234> not until you get a bounce, or the mail goes through (then you can look at the headers to see what happened)
<ali1234> mails should never just disappear
<aquarius> ah! I have got mail from that box. I can look at the headers of a mail which arrived and garner some clues?
<aquarius> what am I looking for/
<aquarius> ?
<ali1234> "SPF verification failed" or something
<ali1234> but SPF is checked by the receiver, so they'll all have different rules for what to do if it's not set up
<diddledan> there's two TLS failures in that snippet
<diddledan> which I believe are from two separate emails
<aquarius> ali1234, SPF lines in the headers of a mail that arrived are:
<aquarius> Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 95.142.156.6 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of info@badvoltage.org) client-ip=95.142.156.6;
<aquarius> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
<aquarius>        spf=neutral (google.com: 95.142.156.6 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of info@badvoltage.org) smtp.mail=info@badvoltage.org
<diddledan> one going to 1and1 and the other going to google
<aquarius> diddledan, ah, I might have snipped too much out of the logs?
<ali1234> "neither permitted nor denied" means you don't have a SPF record
<ali1234> which you don't
<ali1234> some servers will just let that through, other will greylist (which in practice means delay for 30 minutes)
<ali1234> the mail.log snippet you posted doesn't look like thats what happened though
<aquarius> Now, my mail goes to my ISP, which I have set to forward the mail directly to my gmail account. (That is: it is not collected at my ISP and then POP3ed off by gmail; my ISP forwards the mail to gmail.) Might that make a difference? Specifically, if my ISP doesn't care about SPF, might it accept the mail and then forward to gmail (and gmail then accepts it), but sending it straight *to* gmail might get rfused becaus G
<aquarius> oogle themselves *do* care about SPF?
<ali1234> no, they don't
<ali1234> when i was fixing this, i could always send to my gmail
<aquarius> OK, so that's not the reason that mails aren't arriving :(
<aquarius> so, if setting up an SPF record isn't the solution... what else might it be?
<ali1234> using a wrong from: or reply-to: address
<diddledan> aquarius: the only failures I see in that log are related to TLS
<ali1234> can i log into your site and try to get it to email me?
<diddledan> aquarius: one of the tls errors was from google
<diddledan> so an email destined to google failed to get delivered because you failed to verify their ssl cert
<aquarius> ali1234, I can send a "test" email to an address of your choice from discourse, if that'll help
<ali1234> a.j.buxton@gmail.com
<aquarius> diddledan, hm, that sounds relevant.
<ali1234> i'll have a look at the headers, if it arrives
<aquarius> ali1234, test email sent
<aquarius> diddledan, why wouldn't the machine be able to verify google's ssl cert?
<ali1234> nothing yet...
<diddledan> aquarius: likely an openssl issue - do you have the ca-certificates deb installed?
<aquarius> and... it says "Message accepted for delivery"?Or is that sendmail itself saying "ok, calling process, I accept that email and now I'll try and send it to the relevant mail server"?
<aquarius> diddledan, yes. ii  ca-certificates                             20111211                            Common CA certificates
<shauno> the latter.  accepted for delivery means this server believes that the originating server is allowed to relay (or deliver) via this host
<aquarius> OK. So that "accepted for delivery" does not mean that *GMail* has accepted the mail for delivery, it means *sendmail on my server* has accepted it and will now attempt to deliver it to gmail.
<aquarius> which suggests, then, that the next line, which is a STARTTLS verify=FAIL, is relevant, as diddledan says
<aquarius> I have the ca-certificates package installed
<ali1234> that does seem quite a reasonable explanation
<shauno> I do note that like 8 also has verify=FAIL for 1und1's MX, yet that seems to work
<shauno> line 8, rather
<diddledan> you can use openssl directly to connect to google from your server: openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com:25
<diddledan> if it connects then I'm wrong
<aquarius> diddledan, you are, then, wrong
<aquarius> well, by the look of it you are
<diddledan> if you get a line similar to "verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate" then there _might_ be an issue
<diddledan> I get that line on os x though but it still connects
<aquarius> diddledan, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6522782/
<aquarius> ya, it connects. It does give that line about the local issuer cert, but it still connects and I can talk to it
<ali1234> aquarius: what is actually happening in that original log you posted?
<ali1234> last thing is does is send an email to info@ via 1and1
<ali1234> is that a message like "email failed to send"
<ali1234> or is it unrelated?
<aquarius> ali1234, someone tried to sign up to Discourse. It sends them the "click on this link to verify your account" email.
<aquarius> it is possible that I have included too many lines in the log
<aquarius> specifically, I don't think that any email *arrived* at info@badvoltage.org.
 * aquarius asks jono
<shauno> curious, is the hostname really 'default'?
<ali1234> so, the clue then is i guess DSN: Service unavailable
<aquarius> so it may indeed be that an "it went wrong" message got sent to info@badvoltage.org, and that "it wnt wrong" message never got delivered either
<ali1234> no, it did
<ali1234> stat=Sent (Message 0LtnVJ-1Ve1kp2N6b-0119yR accepted by mxeu5.kundenserver.de)
<aquarius> "DSN: Service unavailable" is a wildly useless error message, because there are a trillion hits for it and the responses on every forum in the land are things like "are you sure your DNS works?" :(
<ali1234> can you send a test message to... al@drumoff.tv
<aquarius> hm. So this looks like some sort of related message was sent to info@badvoltage.org, and we didn't get that message (which probably contains useful debugging info)
<ali1234> well you should have... 1and1 received it
<aquarius> test email sent to al@drumoff.tv
<aquarius> yeah. I don't know where info@badvoltage.org goes, though.
<ali1234> need to find an email that can receive directly the message... and then look at the headers
<ali1234> shauno: where do you see "default"?
<diddledan> ali1234: 4th field in the log
<ali1234> that could be the problem, if the FQDN is wrong (and it usually is on ubuntu vhosts)
<ali1234> oh yeah, every line
<aquarius> ah. Now, "hostname" said "default". So I did "sudo hostname community.badvoltage.org" to set it
<aquarius> I do not know what I need to do to make that take effect, though
<diddledan> first you need to set it in /etc/hostname so it gets set after reboob
<vipintruder> sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart
<diddledan> THEN ideally you'd set the RDNS on the server's ip to also be community.badvoltage.org - some email servers are picky about reverse dns
<aquarius> vipintruder, um.... I'm sshed into it.
<vipintruder> ok
<shauno> ali1234: the log entries linked, it should go timestamp hostname process[pid]: text
<aquarius> vipintruder, if I restart networking, it'll boot me off, won't it? Will I be able to get back on?
<shauno> I was just curious if 'default' actually is the hostname; if it was just sanitizing logs, or if something is altogether weird in the name resolution
<diddledan> aquarius: you won't get back on if the network doesn't finish restarting
<diddledan> changing the hostname doesn't require network reset though
<aquarius> I don't think I can make the machine's IP reverse-dns to community.badvoltage.org, because it's an azure box; it's juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.cloudapp.net
<aquarius> ok, I have edited /etc/hostname
<vipintruder> yes, ofcourse.
<ali1234> according to what i just read, the email sent to info@ should contain the exact error google's mailserver sent
<ali1234> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mail.sendmail/i2zZ4BVqd9E
<diddledan> in that case then I'd change the sendmail config to get sendmail to report that it _is_ juju-azure.....
<diddledan> that way the reverse dns matches with the smtp identifier
<diddledan> the sent-from email addresses don't need to change from community though
<aquarius> ali1234, right. I have asked jono to try and find those emails :)
<diddledan> it's a wire-level issue
<aquarius> where does sendmail keep its config?
<diddledan> from memory it's an evil pre-parsed m4-based config that gets compiled
<aquarius> aha /etc/mail/sendmail.conf
<diddledan> they might have moved away from that though - my memory is from the 90s
<diddledan> and my memory might be confusing it with exim
<aquarius> and /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
<aquarius> # my official domain name
<aquarius> # ... define this only if sendmail cannot automatically determine your domain
<aquarius> #Dj$w.Foo.COM
<aquarius> that's in sendmail.cf
<shauno> I hope so.  it used to be that sendmail's config files were dark incantations
<aquarius> but... can it automatically determine my domain?
<ali1234> probably not if it is using "default"
<diddledan> it should tell you in the logs on a restart what hostname it's using - OR you could connect to the smtp port and see what it reports in the welcome
<aquarius> I can't see anywhere in /etc/mail/sendmail.* where it mentions "default" as a hostname
<diddledan> <3 textual protocols
<ali1234> well it won't... that's a default...
<aquarius> $ telnet localhost 25 says 220 default.juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.f3.internal.cloudapp.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-2ubuntu2.1; Thu, 5 Dec 2013 01:56:31 GMT; (No UCE/UBE) logging access from: localhost(OK)-localhost [127.0.0.1]
<aquarius> that "internal" address looks a bit wrong.
<ali1234> doesn't seem to resolve
<shauno> that's very likely to be what it calls itself when it hello's strangers then
<ali1234> that could be the problem
<aquarius> ahahahaha!
<shauno> google are famously fussy about that .. it started biting people recently because they've started to expect the same on ipv6 too
<aquarius> I have the bouncy emails.
<diddledan> I say Ehllo these days
<ali1234> after 30 minute delay?
<aquarius> no, but it was in another account, and gmail put the bounce message into spam because it's a bounce from a message that gmail didn't see me send :)
<aquarius> IP blocked for spam. Dammit.
<diddledan> \o/
<aquarius> I suspect gmail may be blocking lots of azure
<diddledan> indeed
<aquarius> <<< 550-5.7.1 [138.91.52.164       1] Our system has detected an unusual rate of
<aquarius> <<< 550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our
<aquarius> <<< 550-5.7.1 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been blocked.
<aquarius> <<< 550-5.7.1 Please visit http://www.google.com/mail/help/bulk_mail.html to review
<aquarius> <<< 550 5.7.1 our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. za4si33673866wjc.96 - gsmtp
<ali1234> aquarius: i just got your first test email
<diddledan> which is why a lot of cloud services often have cloudy smtp relays
<diddledan> you pay extra to access them though
<diddledan> amazon call theirs SNS
<diddledan> IIRC
<shauno> be warned their 'guidelines' are very likely to be impossibly vague
<diddledan> no, not sns
<ali1234> oh wait, no, it's the second one
<ali1234> via gandi
<diddledan> SES is amazon's
<diddledan> simple email service
<aquarius> I'm on azure. Not sure if they have one
<ali1234> X-Policy: Greylisted 300 seconds
<diddledan> no, I'm not sure about azure either
<shauno> there's no such thing as a simple email service :/  smtp is the work of the devil
<ali1234> if you set up SPF it might cancel out the badness
<diddledan> shauno: yeah
<diddledan> SPF eliminates the work of the devil? wow
<aquarius> yeah, google's "bulk email guidelines" say "we recommend you set up spf", but not with any sort of "and if you do that'll fix it" thing
<ali1234> Received: from default.juju-azure-cw1co66xeo.f3.internal.cloudapp.net (unknown [138.91.52.164]) <- fixing that might also help
<aquarius> and I really don't want to hassle jono to move the dns from 1and1 if it won't fix the problem...
<shauno> they never promise it'll fix it.  they're very defensive of their spam filter, and don't want to give spammers any real clues how to avoid it
<ali1234> and a very good spam filter it is too
<diddledan> spam filtering is very similar to search engine ranking - you don't want to show anyone how it's done
<shauno> but things like spf, dkim do make mails do lend an air of legitimacy
<ali1234> you should move everything you possibly can away from 1and1 anyway... they are rubbish
<shauno>  okay, that wasn't a sentence, which means it's bedtime
<diddledan> shauno: do you still have a 1&1 vps? :-p
<shauno> I still have a hosting account with them, because I'm grandfathered into their free-for-life deal when they launched in the US
 * diddledan refers shauno to ali1234's previous comment
<diddledan> freeforlife?!
<diddledan> wtf?
<aquarius> ali1234, not up to me. *My* DNS is not with 1and1 :)
<shauno> it's just shared hosting though, and rarely gets used for anything.  I just keep it alive because .. it's free
<diddledan> heh
<shauno> I have my names with gandi because they don't act like ipv6 glue is witchcraft, and host my nameserver myself
<diddledan> I need to host my own nameservers
<ali1234> i don't need t host my own anything
<diddledan> ali1234: but you want to, right? :-p
<shauno> most likely you don't need to.  most likely I don't need to :)
<ali1234> diddledan: NO
<shauno> although tying bind9 to apple's global-bonjour stuff is cheaper than acid
<ali1234> i especially don't want any of this cloud nonsense
<diddledan> cloud is awesome
<ali1234> not until it's actually completely transparent and i don't have to care about it
<diddledan> though I'm hosting ordinary servers
<diddledan> on*
<aquarius> well... this is bleedin' annoying, then.
<aquarius> doing spf and dkim and things is hell on legs
<aquarius> azure don't provide an smtp server
<aquarius> SendGrid do, and give me 25,000 emails per month. Will that be enough? Perhaps.
<shauno> for dkim I should point out, unless you control every mailserver this domain will use, it won't work
<shauno> spf is much easier because you just have to list them all
<Vairam> hello
<Vairam> I'm using Motorola droid RAZR
<Vairam> i installed Ubuntu quantal in my mobile
<Vairam> its working but it is not working on saucy
<Vairam> anyone there
 * MartijnVdS pushes AlanBell 's campaign over the Â£2500 edge
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: there's a Â£2500 edge? I thought the indiegogo edge campain didn't reach it's however many meelions :-p
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> congrats AlanBell on reaching your target for the pi's :D
<foobarry> +1
<MooDoo> morning foobarry
<foobarry> morning
<foobarry> somebody made the adobe password crossword from xkcd http://zed0.co.uk/crossword/
<MartijnVdS>  haha :)
<MooDoo> yeah saw that before, took me ages to figure out how to do it :D
<foobarry> who calls their dog "shadow"?
<foobarry> now AlanBell and co. are funded, can the still shot from the youtube vid show a happy  face now?
<AlanBell> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> foobarry: I will probably do another video
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Dancing naked round a pile of Raspberry Pi - bit like in Wicker Man. Something like that maybe?
<Myrtti> oooohhhh
<AlanBell> I might make one or two changes to that plan
<TheOpenSourcerer> Calm down Myrtti
<Myrtti> hacker skill badges
<Myrtti> http://www.adafruit.com/category/70
<foobarry> gonna be a long day. baby hasnt stopped whining since < 6am
<MooDoo> foobarry: been there :D
<Myrtti> I might need more tea, I read baby as body and was going to say something that agrees (pain sucks, what sucks more is an Adobe Connect meeting I had to drag myself into at 7, and not having time to get a drink to get a painkiller)
<diddledan> lol @ magic blue smoke badge
<foobarry> wow, these are real? http://www.natureknows.org/2013/11/amazing-macro-photography-of-individual.html?m=1
<diddledan> foobarry: those scare me -- because I equate them with the andromeda strain
<AlanBell> I love the water jet badge
<MooDoo> now that the global jam has been announced for next year, do we do anything for it?
<popey> We should.
<MooDoo> I've put the date in my diary so if there is a party as well ;) i'd like to go to this one :D
 * TheOpenSourcerer is starving after all that driving yesterday. Thinking *BACON*
<popey> nativity today
<TheOpenSourcerer> w00t!
<popey> front row reserved seats ã
<MooDoo> next wednesday afternoon for me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My youngest on doing the sound at his... Don;t think my eldest's has one this year (Double Yay!)
<popey> Sam is "Mouse #1"
<TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha ha
<MooDoo> my son has been practising "little donkey" every night for the past 2 weeks :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Monty's school is really quite big for a primary (~500 kids). It gets really *painful* when they have to try and get all of them on stage at some point through the evening... They have lots of singers ;-)
<popey> hehe
<popey> Villager #128
<TheOpenSourcerer> Exactly.
<MooDoo> lol
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.waverley-abbey.surrey.sch.uk/site/
<popey> \o/ http://www.hawleyplace.com/
<MooDoo> http://www.st-wilfrids.ik.org/
<popey> oooh christmas lunch
<popey> wish I could sneak in and have some â»
<TheOpenSourcerer> My eldest son's "big" school: http://www.weydonschool.surrey.sch.uk/
<foobarry> i dont remember mice in the nativity..i thought they herded the kids in as sheep
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Ninja Day! :-D
<MooDoo> JamesTait: I already said morning, but you didn't see me COZ I'M A NINJA ;)
<foobarry> popey: airfix/scaletrix/honbry reminder :P
<JamesTait> MooDoo, nice. ;)
<foobarry> today is the scalextric endor set
<foobarry> i think all the answers are (b) today
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: trains? on endor?!
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> racing cars, on endor?!
<foobarry> slot racing
<foobarry> speederbikes
<MartijnVdS> ah, of course
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Whut?
<foobarry> huh?
<MooDoo> is it me or is the ubuntu-uk mailing list quiet?  has there really been nothing since the 23rd nov, or is it me?
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: aformentioned companies have a free competition every day of december to win free stuffs
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Ah, I see.
<DJones> MooDoo: Nope, thats right
<AlanBell> MooDoo: it is oh so quiet
<MooDoo> AlanBell: shhhh shhhhh ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: well done on the pi thing :D
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah, I saw it at 2477
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I just had to fix that ;)
<AlanBell> :) thanks
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> what's happened to linux format? most of the team quit?
<MartijnVdS> didn't they start a kickstarter?
<foobarry> seems so. and they want subs up front before we've seen a magazine
<foobarry> looks like they'll make it
<foobarry> has anyone seen LF since?
<diplo> I'm subbed to LF
<foobarry> i used to read the other one for 5yrs
<diplo> Been debating cancelling it for the last 6 months but I'm lazy
<diplo> It's imo gone downhill over the last year, way to many adverts for my liking as well
<diplo> And the stuff they put in it, I'd rather a magazine without the disc as well
<foobarry> sounds like you're their target customer for the kickstarter mag then
<diplo> Debated about trying the more dev/sysadmin which the name of has totalleft left my mind atm
<foobarry> linux magazine?
<foobarry> linux journal?
<foobarry> the trouble with mags is that they are generally written by people who also write g+ posts and blogs about stuff
<foobarry> which i read, but isn't essential "learning", its just casual reading
<diplo> yeah mine are always found in the loo :) I just read them when the kids are having a bath or other stuff :)
<diplo> Linux User/Developer was the one
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The ex-LXFers are now doing "Linux Voice" and the fundraiser is on Indiegogo
<foobarry> yep, i was wondering about the effect on LF
<foobarry> have they killed the mag? the only regular linux mag on the supermarket shelves?
<TwistedLucidity> What I dislike about LXF is the way the gloss over important stuff. When they did "ownCloud" the mentioned that you needed to secure it. No where did they discuss *HOW*.
<TwistedLucidity> What they should have done was run one article about "ownCloud" and then a second (next month?) about how to secure the wee bugger.
<foobarry> i find all magazines too formulaic
<TwistedLucidity> Directory permission, mod-security etc etc
<foobarry> whether it's photography or linux or other
<TwistedLucidity> They have to catch everyone, so some articles will be too simple, others too complex. But to just ignore something as important as security....yeesh.
<TwistedLucidity> Although I guess "security" encompasses so much they'd have to start with "Re-wiring your home network to create a DMZ"
<diplo> :q
<diddledan> I hate that consumer routers have a "DMZ Address" setting which doesn't deserve the name DMZ at all - a DMZ is supposed to be segregated, not just a host on the lan that has everything forwarded to it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: \o/ openwrt, where you can put it on a second vlan :)
<diddledan> diplo: was that a smilie or a vim command in the wrong window? :-p
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: (also, I get a /48 from my ISP, giving me 2^16 /64s to distribute that way)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: yeah vlans are nifty
<TwistedLucidity> I bought a nice Buffalo dd-wrt router. I thought it would be easy enough to assign one port as a DMZ. Can I do that? Can I feck. All the ports are bridged in some odd way.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: dd-wrt is very closed/weird in a lot of ways
<MartijnVdS> openwrt is much more recognisable for command-line people :)
<diddledan> openwrt bundle a damned webui now tho which really sucks
<ali1234> most consumer routers support vlans these days
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, luci is bad
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I think, from reading, it's a hardware limitation. I have considered flashing in with OpenWRT, but the risk is too great.
<ali1234> perhaps not in the webif, but in the hardware they do
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: top-end ones, maybe. Lower-end ones don't.
<diddledan> ali1234: they might have hardware support for them, but it's rarely exposed in the ui
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: what's the model/type?
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVds: Buffalo AirStation Nfiniti WZR-HP-AG300H-EU
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25138271
<TwistedLucidity> I can separate WifI easily enough (so I have an isolated guest network there), can't do dick with the LAN though.
<diddledan> I'll just leave that there and see if anyone bites
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: ah, region-based firmwares.. eek
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: though I've added serial consoles to all of my TP-Links 8-)
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: ?
<MooDoo> diddledan: my kids would love that :)
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I have several TP-Link routers, all of which I've flashed with OpenWRT
<foobarry> run out of maryland cookies...onto the backup biscuits
<foobarry> bourbons
<diddledan> MooDoo: it's perfect for bathtime
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: and I've soldered pins onto the serial "holes" so I can recover from bad flashes
<foobarry> always keep a backup
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVds: I meant the "region-based" thing. Why wouldn't they be region based?
<TwistedLucidity> I bought this Buffalo thinking it was decent kit as, from the docs, it seemed to do everything.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: Oh, the US version can only access 11 channels, but can send a more powerful signal
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: compared to the EU version, for example
<TwistedLucidity> Of course, I don't wuite "get" networking so I could well be missing something
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I guess the local regulations differ?
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: they do, and usually that's just a switch in the web interface
<diddledan> the wifi in the uk is restricted to 100mW max - including any gain from the antenna - if you put a high-gain antenna on you have to reduce the drive by an equivalent amount to remain legal
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah and 100mW gets you *nowhere*
<MartijnVdS> we have the same rule in .nl
<ali1234> increasing the router power doesn't help the return signal of course. it's pretty much pointless
<gordonjcp> 100mW ERP
<gordonjcp> if you have a 10dBi antenna, you still get the same radiated power but ten times gain on receive
<TwistedLucidity> Well, the signal is fine. It's on the floor below and I have on antenna blasting the lower floor/back garden, the other point up to cover the upper floor. Seems to work.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: I manage wifi for a caravan park (in a forest)
<gordonjcp> as an aded bonus if you've got a directional antenna you can often avoid local interference sources
<MartijnVdS> Leafy trees should be banned.
 * gordonjcp runs about 5W ERP on 2.4GHz
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I bet you hate the summertime then  :-p
<TwistedLucidity> Over Chrimbo I'll try to prat around with the network ports again. Thing is, there's two telecommuters in this house and the Interent *MUST WORK* all the time. If I break the link, I am in the shit.
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: we've just added a few extra "cells" of wifi to increase "summer coverage", yes
<diddledan> gordonjcp: I guess you're not uk-based?
<gordonjcp> diddledan: yes, I am
<diddledan> how'd you get the transmit power up to 5W then?!
<diddledan> that's not fair
<gordonjcp> power amp
<diddledan> I want my wifis to be uber, too
 * diddledan pouts
<gordonjcp> occasionally I run about 300W ERP
<TwistedLucidity> ERP: Echo Rebound Potato?
<diddledan> equivalent radiated power?
<gordonjcp> diddledan: yes
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: That sounds more like it. But I still like the idea of some kind of mental potato gun transmitter. :-)
<diddledan> either that or estimated retail price
<gordonjcp> round at a mate's house I've had a crack at a few tens of kW ERP ;-)
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> yeah, I fancy getting my hands on a GSM base station transmitter and wiring it up to asterisk
<foobarry> dERP
<AlanBell> ali1234: I can haz delivery \o/
<diddledan> AlanBell: you getting prezzies?
<gordonjcp> 300W ERP is about 8W into a 18dBi Yagi, with some feeder loss
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: but *why*? :)
<ali1234> AlanBell: according to the tracking they tried to deliver it yesterday... not sure i believe that though
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: because I can
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: many kW is for bouncing 2.4GHz off the Moon
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> wifi to australia?
<gordonjcp> that's four bays of around 23dBi fed with some unholy large amp
<gordonjcp> diddledan: CW and SSB in this case
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: does it buzz?
<AlanBell> ali1234: they did, I was out in France
<ali1234> AlanBell: so no tax to pay then?
<AlanBell> Â£27.58
<ali1234> hmm... that's significantly less than i expected
<ali1234> i wonder how they calculated it
<AlanBell> import vat Â£16.58, brokerage surcharges Â£11
<AlanBell> value declared was $123.77
<ali1234> wut
<diddledan> $123 ~= Â£80? so Â£27.50 is seriously nasty
<ali1234> vat is 20%... deal with it
<diddledan> oh yeah
<diddledan> ouch
<AlanBell> not ouch at all really :)
<ali1234> they've put the surcharge up tho, everything i read said Â£8
<TwistedLucidity> AlanBell ali1234 You can avoid the surcharge by paying tax beforehand and then putting the reference on the pack. Or so HMRC told me.
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: the seller has to be able to deal with it though
<dwatkins> I've never noticed an option like that on any US seller's website.
<AlanBell> well seeing as the declared value is somewhat lower than we expected it to be then I think we are all good
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234 They buyer just has to tell the seller what to put where. "Tax paid. Ref 1234"
<davmor2> Morning all
<TwistedLucidity> This certainly applies to UK imports, might not to other territories. Royal Mail will probably chance their arm at the surcharge (esp. now they have been sold at a massive loss)
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: yes, plus it would have costed more anyway
<TwistedLucidity> Lucky. Sometimes it does work out. Guess it depends who you buy from (fleaBay, established exporter, etc)
<davmor2> Ohhhhhh Broken sword 5 has landed
<ali1234> TwistedLucidity: adafruit. so fairly legit, but normally they just deal with resellers rather than dealing with overseas shipping
<popey> \o/ nativity++
<MooDoo> popey: awww was it good :D
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234 Prolly just experience then. I was rather surprised how helpful HMRC were when I called them about import codes.
<ali1234> HMRC gets a bad rep just because nobody likes being taxed
<popey> yes but I have the song stuck in my head now
<ali1234> they've always been helpful when i have had to deal with them
<TwistedLucidity> New brake calliper Â£300, import from USA, air freight, all taxes+charges Â£200. The UK distributor is having a larf.
<TwistedLucidity> Got a tax overpayment query sitting with them at the moment...I hope the continue to be helpful. :)
<foobarry> i got Â£15 from giffgaff..
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: for being a good customer?
<diddledan> \o/ for freebies
<foobarry> referrals
<foobarry> telling ppl how to get cheap tariffs
<foobarry> some ppl  insist on paying Â£30pm instead of Â£10
<foobarry> NSA reportedly collects 5 billion cell phone location records a day
<foobarry> safer to just assume that if they can do it, they are
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: What's the coverage like?
<foobarry> O2 network TwistedLucidity
<foobarry> hence why i moved from t-mobile to gg
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: OK...that's who I'm with. Might give them a go next time, but the deal I got on the new phone (with cachbacks, refunds etc) was pretty ridiculous.
<foobarry> some contract phones are actually good deal sometimes
<TheOpenSourcerer> big lol: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BathM5uCUAAwE5p.jpg:large
<TwistedLucidity> The only downer is that I have the only phone on the planet which Cyanogenmod doesn't support. GAH!
<foobarry> blackberry market share in china = 0.0% lol
<Myrtti> oh wow
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/dec/04/jack-monroe-budget-christmas?CMP=twt_gu
<Myrtti> Jack Monroe \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> "Sprats make a splendid starter." hmmmm.
<knightwise>  Oh sweet bliss of "waiting for a network engineer to get his shit together"
<bigcalm> !ohmy | knightwise
<lubotu3> knightwise: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<bashrc> I guess that only passive aggression is permitted
<ali1234> whatever.
<diplo> Any recommendations on other file managers than nautilus to give a whirl, thunar any good now ?
<ali1234> yeah, thunar is very good now
<ali1234> it does have one missing feature: it can't store the view mode per directory
<ali1234> other than that it is great
<diplo> I can deal with that, thanks.
<Laney> what about fowl language?
<directhex> bok bok bok
<popey> 24 hours later, my laptop hasn't overheated once
<bigcalm> What physical shop can I go to to buy an UPS? My searching is terrible
<bigcalm> Aha, Maplin
<popey> maplin
<MartijnVdS> http://www.estofex.org/cgi-bin/polygon/showforecast.cgi?text=yes&fcstfile=2013120606_201312051139_3_forecastupdate.xml
<ali1234> so what direction is that thing going in?
<ali1234> because it's really windy here already
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's going east
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: across the north of the Netherlands, into Germany, Baltic
<ali1234> good... already passed over here then
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah, it killed a lorry driver in Scotland
<MooDoo> pretty windy here i nottingham too
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: It is, innit?
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: you up here too?
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: I'm down in Notts, yup.
 * TwistedLucidity views Nottingham as "In the South"
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: cool, that's a few now, we're taking over the channel ;) where abouts?  City Center?
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: LUG meet tonight, you should come along
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Just West of the city.
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: not been to a LUG meet in years :)
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: Calverton for me :D
<Laney> bah, this wind and rain
<Laney> was going to go into town at lunch
<MooDoo> was it something I said?
 * Laney is just west of the city too ;-)
<Laney> hah
<popey> I has soup
<MooDoo> it's curry day in the office today
 * Laney will man up and bike through it
<MooDoo> Laney: my sister is driving me home :D
<Laney> nice
 * TheOpenSourcerer just had Spanish chicken and rice from the van. It was nice - but I need MOAR!
<directhex> today is ryvita & cheese spread. yum
<TwistedLucidity> That was nasty - system crash :(
<MooDoo> TwistedLucidity: lol thought i'd scared you off :D
<TwistedLucidity> Nah, whole machine borked mid-update. Had to SSH in and force a restart when it was done.
<MooDoo> welcome back....
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo: Yer a wee bitty further out than me
<MooDoo> cool :) we'll all have to meet up for an ubuntu hour in town lol
<MooDoo> and meet up for the global jam in april :D
<TwistedLucidity> MooDoo there was one last year (I think) at the Roundhouse. A few folks there.
<MooDoo> nice :D
<popey> BIG SOUP + Roll
<TwistedLucidity> Herb encrusted goats cheese + serrano ham + whole grain mustard in homemade sunflower seed bread. Do I win?
<popey> yes
<Myrtti> BUT ONLY FOR NOW
<foobarry> slow cooked beef casserole and spaghetti
<MooDoo> Tender diced lamb or chicken cooked with onion, peppers, tomatoes & Pakistani herbs. Garnished with fresh coriander & garam masala
<foobarry> home cooked or tesco? mine was home made
<MooDoo> foobarry: local curry house lol
<Myrtti> we've tried our new multicooker twice now, once for deep frying and once for making rice
<Myrtti> should really try something new with it
<foobarry> is it the same as a slow cooker?
<foobarry> ah, thats one of 8 functions
<foobarry> nice
<foobarry> just chuck a lamb leg in with some seasoning..yum
<TwistedLucidity> Just had to run outside to pin some covers back down. That was a pretty horrible experience.
<Myrtti> yeah, D put some money on getting a Codlo and needed to get a new slow cooker as the old one was a digital that needed to be turned on from a button
<Myrtti> so when it was on lightning deals last week we got one
<foobarry> i  might try slow cooking some haribo
<foobarry> lunchtime news is so depressing
<dogmatic69> lol, virgin media is subject to XSS
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: ???
<MartijnVdS> cross-site scripting
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5l9lSnNMxg
<dogmatic69> correct.
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: I know what XSS is! :) I wanted to know in what way VM was vulnerable.
<TwistedLucidity> i.e. linky?
<TwistedLucidity> As in - link to news article?
<dogmatic69> what news article?
<foobarry> "Almost 600 under-16s take up smoking every day in the UK" :(
<dogmatic69> its the chat system
<directhex> foobarry, well, it *is* cool
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: So it's their live chat thing?
<dogmatic69> yes
<diddledan> foobarry: they take it up every day? as in the 600 under-16s keep quitting so they can take it up the next day anew?
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: Did VM send you an alert or something? (I'm also a VM customer, so interested in this)
<dogmatic69> TwistedLucidity:  no, I am also customer. Was on supprt trying to get help and was taking long so got bored
<dogmatic69> inspecting the source and found it
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: >ow<
<diddledan> dogmatic69: send it to full-disclosure
<TwistedLucidity> You may want to tell them. Carefully.
<TwistedLucidity> I found a website a while back where I could change their prices when ordering. I didn't order anything and I didn't tell them (figured I'd wind up on the wrong side of the law if I did)
<foobarry> diddledan: Questionnaires were completed by 6519 children in 219 schools. And by comparing the numbers of current smokers- with smoking rates among the same age band surveyed the previous year, the researchers were able to estimate the numbers of new teens who took up smoking in 2010-11 in the UKâ207,000.
<TwistedLucidity> After reading about someone getting the jail for simply changing a URL a few years ago in the UK, seems they'd rather punish the messenger
<foobarry> i wonder if e-cigs were inclued in that
<MartijnVdS> they should be
<TwistedLucidity> dogmatic69: Not just the chat system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NaJ8_eNtS4
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: do e-cigs lead to the burning variety?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: I think so. Also, they've found e-cig smoke to contain carcinogens as well
<foobarry> isn't it pure vaporised nicotine?
<MartijnVdS> no
<foobarry> too simple i suppose
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS:  only when people use too much power and it burns
<dogmatic69> foobarry:  pure nicotine is highly toxic
<foobarry> Analysis of nicotine patches has shown that they contain tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), known cancer-causing agents, in quantities of up to 173ng per patch
<foobarry> not sure if good or bad
<TwistedLucidity> Everything causes cancer, even oxygen
<foobarry> who are you, daily mail>
<dwatkins> foobarry: the patches are less bad than smoking, I imagine, for various reasons.
<dwatkins> As you approach the ripe old age of 100, your chances of getting cancer probably increase significantly, considering it's a result of errors in cell division from what I understand, so being alive "causes" cancer in that case.
<foobarry> i guess if you're on patches/e-cigs then you're trying to quit anyway
<TheOpenSourcerer> NEWSFLASH you are all going to die sometime.
<Myrtti> 3Doodler \o/
<dwatkins> foobarry: indeed, and I am
<diddledan> WHAT?!
<Myrtti> Doodle all the things!
<diddledan> WHEN??
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: weeeeeeelllll, not necessarily
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Oh yeah? Prove it ;-)
<dwatkins> I've heard plausible arguments that we may have the technology to become effectively immortal soon.
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer:  WHAT?!?!?!?!
<foobarry> sometimes you get SMART errors first, and sometimesyou die without backups or warning
<dwatkins> I said plausible, not that I have proof.
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I look at what getting *really* old does to people I have no intention of making it to that stage.
<diddledan> TheOpenSourcerer: euthenasia?
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll never be old....botox ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope - but O do not subscribe to the "lets do everything healthy sdo we live longer" brigade.
<TheOpenSourcerer> *O/I
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've nearly done 50 years already so I consider that a bit of a win frankly :-D
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: chilli health drinks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Everything else is a bonus so I might as well enjoy myself.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Chillies, cigars, alcohol, golf, curry...
<MartijnVdS> Golf is deadly now?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh yes, if you're standing around me when I play :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> At my old club a bloke lost an eye.
<TwistedLucidity> MartijnVdS: Lightning strike
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ball carrered into his buggy and took his eye out.
<MooDoo> FOURteen broken ribs :d
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well squashed it actually but you get the idea
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: uh oh.. I might have to re-plan my running route
<TheOpenSourcerer> Golf balls are very hard and travel rather fast.
<MartijnVdS> it crosses the local golf course
<TheOpenSourcerer> Although if you watch this you might think they are rather soft... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1284051/Incredible-slow-motion-picture-golf-ball-flattens-hits-steel-plate-150mph.html
<dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer:  not that hard... http://www.datgif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/golf-ball-slow-motion-impact.gif
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<foobarry> one good reason to quit eon energy is that you get locked out for 15 mins after getting the password wrong ONCE
<dogmatic69> lol
<foobarry> then i give up
<foobarry> wifey just bought me a jumper from h&m
<foobarry> had to tell her it wasn't really my style
<foobarry> she was disappoint
<bashrc> this is why it's not usually a good idea to buy people clothes for christmas
<dwatkins> you could give it to a local homeless shelter, foobarry - although if it's from Abercrombie & Fitch, bear this in mind: http://www.relevantmagazine.com/reject-apathy/poverty/why-fitchthehomeless-backfires
<Simon____> Hello
<daftykins> hi
<Simon____> Sorry, new here, just want to know more about ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> you've come to the right place :)
<marxjohnson> Simon____: You've come to the right place!
<marxjohnson> gah, beaten to it!
<dogmatic69> Simon____:  prob best to get some specific questions as its huge :)
<MooDoo> beat me to that too
<Simon____> Tremendous, I believe its a general philosphy of a moneyless society everyone contributing to the overall wellbeing of the community?
<marxjohnson> Simon____: Yes, but this channel is about the Operating System really :)
<marxjohnson> Simon____: http://ubuntu.com
<foobarry> but we are nice to each other too
<Simon____> Oh, what does that mean?
<MooDoo> people like the freeness of it, the ability to change anyting within the os if they feel the need, the community etc
<Simon____> So more of an online community than a physical one?
<MooDoo> you have to remember that we are all in diffeent parts of the country and world, so it's not practical to meetup but we do have RL meetups :D
<Simon____> No, i understand. It's just that i thought it was more of a philosphical discussion than a technical one
<MooDoo> sounds like you're more into this than me, I just use the darn os ;)
<Simon____> Ha, ok so what do you talk about generally?
<marxjohnson> Simon____: There are philosophical aspects, especially if you want to talk about the Free Software movement, but generally the people here are just using the Ubuntu OS and associated software
<TwistedLucidity> Ubuntu is the vanguard of the Canonical agenda. *dons tin-foil hat* :-P
<MooDoo> Simon____: anything and everything withing reason, this is a publically logged channel
<diddledan> publically logged, so if you make a eejit of yourself it's save for future posterity :-p
<Simon____> I see, I'm guess i'm more used to forums where there are seperate threads for whatever.
<daftykins> we're building a great "history of diddledan" right now
<MooDoo> yeah here mostly anything goes
<marxjohnson> Simon____: Try ubuntuforums.org or discourse.ubuntu.com for threaded discussion
<diddledan> daftykins: I try my best
<popey> we also talk about cats
<popey> and chilli
<popey> and beer
<popey> and knitting
<Simon____> But yeah, definately agree with free software
<marxjohnson> mm beer
<diddledan> kitties!!!!!!
<MooDoo> Simon____: easiest thing to do is hang around see how you go, we're all friendly
<diddledan> cats are the bestest
<Simon____> ok thanx marxjohnson and everbody else
 * popey wonders if Simon____ is the same Simon who just posted to the mailing list
<Simon____> yeah will do
<TwistedLucidity> Simon____: Some of the more FSF/GNU channels may be more about the ethos of Free Software.
<diddledan> MooDoo: except me when I'm in a sarcastic mood
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: All the time, then?
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: pretty much
<diddledan> TwistedLucidity: I don't really have downtime
<diddledan> 99.95% SLA on sarcasm here
<popey> I think Simon____ was more alluding to the "Ubuntu philosophy" in general, not the one we think of
<popey> given his mentions of moneyless society
<directhex> COMMUNISM
<diddledan> bring back the USSR
<Simon____> Yes, Misdirected by google it seems!
<popey> \o/ bitcoins â»
<TwistedLucidity> popey How much are they worth now? 2 continents?
<popey> they dropped under 1000USD and are probably back up by now
<popey> yeah, ~$1012
<TwistedLucidity> Accoridng ot oanda, 1BTC==USA$1,109
<popey> oh yes
<diddledan> ooh, they finially breached the 1k mark
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: a few weeks ago already
<MartijnVdS> though it was at 900 again this morning..
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: http://bitcoinity.org/markets
 * TwistedLucidity looks up the word "arbitrage". Ponders.
<MartijnVdS> TwistedLucidity: an "arbiter" is what a referee is sometimes called in Dutch football matches :)
<TwistedLucidity> Doe 4od work for anyone? It used to for me, but now it doesn't
<TwistedLucidity> iPlayer still fine
<marxjohnson> TwistedLucidity: hasn't worked for me for a long time. Lots of 4OD progammes are on YouTube, which does work
<TwistedLucidity> face/palm. I keep forgetting that
<popey> annoyingly 4OD on iPad now forces an upgrade of the app or it wont start
<popey> but I can't update it because the new one is IOS 6 only, and my iPad is IOS 5 â¹
<daftykins> the great Apple chop!
<daftykins> i've been upgrading a clients mid 2010 MBP to Mavericks today
<daftykins> just this afternoon she'd been looking at a program that requires Lion as a minimum - due to being on Snow Leopard previously that was going to be a no!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Telcos do arbitrage
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Is the upgrade easy enough? I'd like to see if it fixees the g/f's MBP.
<daftykins> fixes? what happened to it?
<daftykins> well, i don't believe in OS upgrades - so i made up a USB flash drive and nuked the system :D
<daftykins> then i pulled in the user data only from the time machine backup
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Safari sucks. Pauses for about 30 seconds - 1 min on first load. Then on about every 5th page load. Chrome is a bit better, but not great.
<daftykins> i wanted as few remnants of the old install as possible, including reinstalling Office
<TwistedLucidity> Kubuntu in a VM runs like a champ
<daftykins> is that Safari on OS X playing up?
<daftykins> er oops *mavericks
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Yes. OS X 10.5.something or other
<daftykins> Mavericks is 10.9
<TwistedLucidity> I can't recall the exact version, but it claims it can upgrade to Mavericks
<daftykins> the annoying thing is you need 10.7 or 10.8 to make a working USB flash drive for a proper clean install
<TwistedLucidity> It might be 10.7 for all I know. Not my laptop so I try not to take to do with it, other than offer advice.
<daftykins> but thankfully i have VMs of those :D
<MooDoo> AlanBell: that's one heck of a beer fridge :)
<dwatkins> AlanBell: congrats on the Pi project :)
<dwatkins> does it have a name yet?
<popey> http://lamborghininewportbeach.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/we-just-sold-our-very-first-vehicle.html
<popey> someone bought a tesla with bitcoin
<bashrc> was it Satoshi?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: nobody knows
<diplo> popey: Do you know who does the badvoltage web stuff ?
<diplo> is it sil ?
<popey> yes
<diplo> ah, just got an error with a plugin, will keep an eye out for him to come back in
<AlanBell> dwatkins: no name yet
<dwatkins> I called my Raspberry Pi with two monitors "raspberrytau"
<popey> AlanBell: do you still need crimp tool / bits?
<AlanBell> I found some bits, I am thinking of redesigning it a bit so I don't need to cut/crimp cables because it is a fiddly and annoying task
<directhex> another steam box announced. http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mono/mono_3.2.3+dfsg-4.dsc
<directhex> gah
<directhex> http://hexus.net/tech/news/systems/63349-piixl-jetpack-steam-machine-announced/
<daftykins> hexus still going.
<directhex> apparently
<daftykins> ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: DO NOT SHOW THAT TO MY KIDS
<daftykins> TheOpenSourcerer: what's the worst that could happen? :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Â£600???
<TheOpenSourcerer> Kids spend less time doing *useful* things
<dvrr> Initialization Sequence Completed With Errors  openvpn   client windows 7 how to resolve  please help me
<dvrr> ubuntu client it's work
<popey> blimey, windier than I thought http://imgur.com/vkQKi7k
<bigcalm> It's a touch blustery over here
<davmor2> popey: ouch
<diplo> I've lost a fence panel at lunch time :/
<diplo> Died right off again now though
<bigcalm> I wonder if Linux Voice will make their target
<popey> hope so
<bigcalm> I say latest, was last week's edition I guess
<bigcalm> Wonder how many subs they have received via uupc
<diplo> I will sub once I've worked out if I can afford it or not with Xmas :)
<TwistedLucidity> I am thinking of subbing when I get back...depending on how all the bills land.
<TwistedLucidity> I may have to cancel a certain other sub....
<daftykins> ooh-err this Mavericks upgrade seems to not work well with the WD My Book NAS we have for Time Machine backups
<daftykins> looks like a new NAS might have to be acquired just to work with Mavericks =/
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Whut? That seems rather....odd.....
<daftykins> yeah it's quite quirky
<popey> i ended up wiping both macs and installing mavericks clean
<daftykins> that's how i've re-done this MBP
<daftykins> although it's able to pull the backup off the time machine NAS - but i'm not very happy with the results
<daftykins> i think i'll just copy and paste the user's data onto a backup drive, re-do the system as clean as possible then paste the data back on
<daftykins> that way i get no legacy issues from the old snow leopard install
<daftykins> but this NAS definitely seems to have had its' day
<daftykins> it's working, but you have to trick it into letting you use it as a backup device, then it absolutely crawls
<daftykins> it did maybe 300MB in half an hour
<daftykins> popey: did you have issues with initial upgrade installs, or just didn't feel like it?
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5mwygag3ae7ovl/IMG_20131205_173712.jpg
<daftykins> town lights are on in Guernsey
<bigcalm> Current desktop background, I love variety: http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/457019
<MartijnVdS> nice one
<bigcalm> Is it possible to search a git repo to find the commit that 1st introduced a variable into my code?
<MartijnVdS> there's git blame for who touched it last
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1337320/how-to-grep-git-commits-for-a-certain-word
<bigcalm> Not sure the variable name will be in the log
 * bigcalm guesses the branch :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: log -Sword also searches contents
<MartijnVdS> or -Gword
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://gitfu.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/the-pickaxe-finding-changes-was-never-easier/
<bigcalm> Oh, ta
<bigcalm> Haha, the variable was in a commit log!
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<popey> daftykins: i had an issue with one yes
<diddledan> isn't a targ a form of creature? in which case I'm assuming targz is the plural?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Targ
<diddledan> gotchabob
<shauno> things like this make me wonder how much else in the news is entirely fictional; http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/04/romanian-farmville-gang-con-400000-from-government-with-fake-farms-4215956/
<shauno> seen it reported in a few places, they've all done the same thing.  mis-translated "fictional cows" as "virtual cows", and then invented the rest
<diddledan> shauno: they link to http://metro.co.uk/2010/04/07/farmville-user-hit-with-900-bill-playing-the-popular-facebook-game-225371/
<diddledan> shauno: how did his account, first exist because he's under 13, and second have a valid credit card associated
<daftykins> bad parenting
<shauno> "and 288 of his own" .. what kinda 12yo has 288 quid laying around?
<daftykins> one that saves up a lot
<diddledan> lol : "Recently Bulgarian councillor Dimitar Kerin, a member of the Plovdiv Municipal Committee, was removed from a key committee because he couldnât resist milking his FarmVille cows during important meetings."
<diddledan> I wonder how much of that was mistranslated/made up
<Myrtti> in case someone here is living in a bottle, Nelson Mandela has passed away
<diddledan> the movie is perfectly timed to capitalise on the press coverage then
<diddledan> has south africa imploded yet?
<zleap>  Myrtti just read that on the bbc news site
<daftykins> wow flybe are really withdrawing from the Channel Islands
<daftykins> they're closing everything and axeing a lot of routes
<mapps> why?
<daftykins> cutting costs
<mapps> everywhere and everything cutting costs and jobs;/
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> i hope it doesn't increase cost to get to England
<mapps> lfights are incredibly cheap across europe atm
<mapps> so i guess it's to be expected either flights go up or they cut routes/jobs
<mapps> like that nonsense about customers being able to sue if flights are over a certain amount late..well ..great people will sue..airlines put prices up to recoup those costs..people moan?
<daftykins> people always find new ways to moan :D
<daftykins> uh-oh am i doing it now D:
<mapps> heh
<mapps> im happy with how flights are atm
<mapps> my flight to CZ was on time way there..early way back to Manchester
<daftykins> but yeah Channel Island flights are the most expensive in the world per mile, apparently
<mapps> ah
<mapps> ;/
<mapps> I paid like 300 quid for my flights to Holland and back including Hotel..dirt cheap
<mapps> when you think it costs me 60+ for one way to Euston if i get a ticket same day
<daftykins> how long did you stay?
<mapps> not gone yet..only staying 3 nights (4 days) arrive 1pm friday leave 21;40 monday
<shauno> flights are pretty ridiculous most places now.  what we really need next is a budget hotel revolution
<map> my ticket from Stoke -stu
<Guest32151> argh
<Guest32151> stupid router
<Guest32151> mapps> not gone yet..only staying 3 nights (4 days) arrive 1pm friday leave 21;40 monday
<Guest32151> damnit
<Guest32151> s
<mappps> compare it to a train ticket 20 quid stoke-> manchester fligts are great value 60 quid or something to fly to Holland?
<daftykins> if you book late it'll cost you Â£70 to get to Guernsey >_<
<mappps> is Jersey chanel islands?
<daftykins> yeah, it's south-east of me
<mappps> yea i knew someone who lived there..company he worked for were there i think
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> Jersey's more like little England though
<daftykins> not true island life, heritage and culture like Guernsey
<daftykins> ;D
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-06
<shauno> I just found the most amazing gizmo.  "RooTooth" adds bluetooth to the roomba.  I think I just found my christmas present
<daftykins> what can you then do to the Roomba via bluetooth?
<shauno> start/stop it would be the most obvious, but you can take complete control of it over serial
<shauno> they already have a serial port that allows this.  this just plugs into the serial port and makes that available, so you're not following it around with a cable
<daftykins> :D
 * MartijnVdS doesn't see much newness in Trusty yet.. ;)
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how's it going knightwise ?
<knightwise> doing fine , working from home today
<MooDoo> nice
<knightwise> that means I get to play with office365 and still work on my ubuntu machine
<MooDoo> nice, why office365 ?
<knightwise> Thats what we use at work
<MooDoo> cool
<knightwise> and it works great in a browser (currently using Chrome on Ubuntu
<MooDoo> awesome, never tried it, normally I use google docs
<MartijnVdS> Previous work used Office365, but only for email
<MartijnVdS> it SUCKED
<knightwise> Office 2013 is a drag , but the web interface of 365 is better then outlook web access
<MartijnVdS> it's still buggy though, and quite "heavy" compared to, say, gmail
<knightwise> That is true. But if it enables you to use your 'own device" when you are not at work , I kinda lov it
<knightwise> just for that
<knightwise> mind you , i'm not a serious excel user or anything
 * dwatkins signs-up for AlanBell's Ubuntu RPi project
<MooDoo> I'm sure he'll appreciate that
<MartijnVdS> More pi for everyone 8-)
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> How're we all this morning, tis Friday!
<MooDoo> diplo: yippee
<diplo> Missing Xmas work do, not sure if I'm happy or glad about that!
<MooDoo> diplo: mines next week
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5nfV3S7sqI
<diplo> never really seen anything to do with this Rebecca Black
<diplo> I think i switched off when the internet went mad :)
<MooDoo> It'll go mad today with the death of nelson mandela
<diplo> I did last night, switched normal telly off and went on the media centre
<MartijnVdS> yesterday, I cancelled my TV subscription
<MartijnVdS> so I'll be stuck with freesat channels and some FTA DVB-T channels :)
<diplo> I've debated that a lot recently MartijnVdS, but it keeps the kids quiet so can't decide
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: still need a license though
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: not in the Netherlands :)
<knightwise> grrr
<knightwise> banshee seems to be unable to import simple standard playlist files
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: :p
<foobarry_> knightwise: i#m compelled to use o365 for work,  never used the actual office bits besides email, does it work like google docs?
<diplo> Anyone know how to embed a video from youtube ( downloaded in multiple formats ) into an impress doc ?
<knightwise> foobarry_: yeah it does
<foobarry_> knightwise: can't find it on mine :(
<foobarry_> knightwise: do they also request admin access when you try to use activesync?
<foobarry_> i've gone from having a good email service on my phone to having to remove email because i won't allow my company remote wipe functionality on my personal device
<foobarry_> 99% of devices in use are personal
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Miners' Day! :)
<MooDoo> JamesTait: morning
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<JamesTait> MooDoo, o/
<czajkowski> aloha :)
<czajkowski> how are we all
<MooDoo> fine and dandy thanks
<foobarry> how can i report a bug with a crash file? ubuntu-bug <crash file name> opens the crash window, but click continue does not submit it to LP
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> g'day
<foobarry> oh.. bug 994921
<lubotu3> bug 994921 in apport (Ubuntu Quantal) "'ubuntu-bug /var/crash/app.crash' (and even more so, 'apport-cli -c /var/crash/app.crash') should still allow manual bug filing in stable releases" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994921
<ali1234> foobarry: it does
<ali1234> you just have to fiddle
<foobarry> i had to edit a conf file :(
<foobarry> i think it sends a message that bugs won't get fixed...
<popey> what crashed?
<SuperMatt> morning guys
<MooDoo> mornign SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> today I should hear back about a job at rackspace \o/
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you did an interview for rackspace?
<foobarry> popey: brasero
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: yup! yesterday :)
<popey> at teh end of burning?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> just clicking on tracks popey
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: wow fingers crossed, want to work there myself on day :D
<SuperMatt> I'll let you know what it's like ;)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: if you get it :)
<popey> SuperMatt: how are the helpouts going?
<SuperMatt> I mean, it could be totally dull or whatever, with their pool tables and xbox ones and stuff
<SuperMatt> popey: I've been too busy to do them >.<
<SuperMatt> literally, the next 5 nights I'm out dancing
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I've watched videos I know all about what it's like to be a racker :D
<foobarry> i'm told its a dupe of an expired bug 438300
<lubotu3> bug 438300 in brasero (Ubuntu) "brasero assert failure: *** glibc detected *** brasero: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x084aea58 ***" [Medium,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438300
<SuperMatt> and I've got house hunting interspersed in that
<SuperMatt> oh, and hitting the gym to train for a 10K
<foobarry> although my bug is from 12.04 and this bug is from 9.10
<popey> see if it's known upstream?
<popey> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=brasero
<foobarry> doesn't seem to be
<popey> might be worth filing one
<popey> at least write up how it's reproducible
<bigcalm> ctrl+alt+<arrow keys> are my best friends. So much so, that I have Windows doing it as well.
 * AlanBell just ordered 35 32GB SD cards
<MooDoo> AlanBell: anyone would think you've got a cluster to build.
<bigcalm> What's the tar argument to preserve permissions?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: p?
<bigcalm> MooDoo: sounds likely, ta
<foobarry> i got banned from another freenode channel soon after asking why ops hadn't banned a persistent troll that had caused channel splits :-|
<MooDoo> foobarry: have you spoken to free node staff about it?
<foobarry> probably for the best if they aren't going to ban the troll
<foobarry> tbh if he is persistent, using /ignore isn't sufficient because everyone else gets sucked in four hours
<foobarry> i'm prob better off not in there..
<foobarry> MooDoo: its not  worth it
 * foobarry wonders if its possible to get RSI through using a mouse. i have persistent tendon type pain in middle right finger when i try to grip things
<diplo> Yep definitely
<foobarry> only just noticed i've had it for about 6 months
<diplo> Try changing the way you work helps
<foobarry> i think my hand is on the mouse most of day
<MooDoo> hi all, apart from bug testing any point in updating to the new LTS yet?
<SuperMatt> not yet, because you really won't get the long term support until it's actually out :P
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i meant for new features etc smarty pants :D
<SuperMatt> I normally like to jump on a +1, but right now I'm not sure I'm going to
<SuperMatt> when I hear of a killer feature, I might
<SuperMatt> so far, there hasn't been much on OMG about trusty
<foobarry> they are taling about image updates
<foobarry> mainly for mobile devices i guess, unsure if desktop is affected
<SuperMatt> not for mobile stuff
<SuperMatt> but I'm sure there will be some very key changes
<SuperMatt> for anyone upgrading between LTSes, the biggest thing to look out for is that apache has a number of gotchas
<SuperMatt> for instance, if you have any virtual hosts files that don't end in .conf, the vhost won't be loaded
<SuperMatt> trufax
<SuperMatt> not sure if I should raise a bug against that though
<SuperMatt> is it a bug in apache, or a bug in the upgrade process?
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: have you made sure you're not working next Wednesday evening?
<SuperMatt> g'ning!
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah more important have you :P
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> My and my wife will be there :)
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> bigcalm: davmor2 you guys having a party?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Wolveslug xmas bashg
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning good sir
<MooDoo> nice
<davmor2> bigcalm: my and my wife hey nice ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I could say Hayley, but I still like saying wife ;)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: ewww you recently married?
<bigcalm> o.O
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm teasing chap
<MooDoo> :)
<bigcalm> Haven't I been spamming here with that for long enough?
<bigcalm> :P
<daftykins> woohoo the boiler guy just came to look at my gas boiler
<daftykins> with any luck, the 1 hour of work should be all that's needed to get it running sensibly again
<MooDoo> yay
<bigcalm> Yay warmth
<daftykins> ah well it was heating fine
<daftykins> but the thing was losing pressure all the time, seems it was the expansion unit thing
<daftykins> expansion vessel rather
<daftykins> quick bicycle pump up of that and we may be back to normal :O
<arsen> hihi
<daftykins> morning sir
<arsen> that it is! just.
<arsen> waiting for my Wagamanas Breakfast
<arsen> as inevitabtly my lunch will be delivered before 12, annoyingly :(
<daftykins> i thought the brand was Wagamama? though i'm unfamiliar with them
<arsen> it probably is. :d
<daftykins> heh you get delivered lunch? :D
<arsen> Wagas not encroached the island yet then?
<arsen> yeah, Fridays.
<daftykins> you name it, we've not got it
<daftykins> although two of our big supermarkets are now Waitrose
<daftykins> aaaand we have two Costa coffee shops in town now
<arsen> How very Middle Class. :D
<daftykins> one is 20 seconds from my door, the other is about 90 seconds :>
<daftykins> yeah i still shop mostly at the co-op though
<daftykins> which carries the produce of English co-ops but is separate, as we have share numbers and get little 4p stamps with every Â£1 spent!
<arsen> hah cool. my parents pretty much live off Co-Op and Waitrose.
<daftykins> they still up Notts way or did they move somewhere?
<daftykins> i remember you said they were downsizing, many moons ago
<arsen> nope, still in the middle of nowhere.
<daftykins> hehehe
<arsen> they moved to this huge house split into 'apartments', that are bigger than the average house
<daftykins> :D
<arsen> never a fan, felt like a bad hotel or an old people's home - so last year they just finished building a house. Much better now imo.
<daftykins> hahaha nice
<arsen> Eco-house, sustainable/passive heat storage etc, all very clever.
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> that'd be nice
<daftykins> if this fix today isn't permanent on my boiler, i may have to consider dropping Â£1,500-2,000 on a new boiler D:
<daftykins> oops repetition.
<arsen> that sucks - boilers are .. :( though i think the latest generation ones are all very efficient and cosy.
<daftykins> yeah they seem to be all on about these fancy condensing ones now
<daftykins> my parents even have a wireless controller/thermostat for theirs O_O
<arsen> i dont know if there's any govt grant scheme to encourage boiler upgrades
<DJones> daftykins: I had a similar problem because of problem with the expansion, radiators worked fine, but couldn't get hot water, ended up getting a new boiler
<daftykins> although were it me, i'd love to get some kind of home automation on the go
<daftykins> DJones: that's pretty weird!
<arsen> you all sold up in the portsmouth house yeah?
<daftykins> arsen: yep i was over that time in late 2011/early 2012 fixing things up - then i think it sold around April
<daftykins> then i kicked around back in Guernsey at my parents again - before finding a local place :)
<DJones> daftykins: Yeah, it was something to do with a sensor that was supposed to touch the bladder/expansion & wasn't doing it for the hot water
<daftykins> DJones: ah - more economical to replace rather than repair was it?
<daftykins> that's what this guy is saying for mine, as apparently the whole unit has to come off the wall to replace the expansion vessel D:
<DJones> Pretty much, old boiler was 10 years old & could have spent a couple of hundred on the repair because of obsolete parts for something else to go at any point, ended up getting my cousin to fit a new one for just over Â£1100
<dvrr> hiiiii
<DJones> Must say the remote is quite handy
<arsen> need a ubuntu boiler.
<daftykins> mmm same here, got a pretty old Vokera Linea 24 that the guy reckons is between 10 and 15
<daftykins> arsen: been having fun and games upgrading the clients' Macbook Pro (mid 2010) to OS X 10.9
<dvrr> MooDoo: haiiiii
<MooDoo> dvrr: :D
<daftykins> after which it can no longer use her time machine NAS
<DJones> daftykins: We had a few quotes of around Â£1,500-Â£1,750 with remote control & a couple of radiator valves from local fitters, but as its my cousins trade, him & his mate did it in a couple of hours
<arsen> I don't dislike OSX, the only thing i ever got annoyed by was the lack of encouragement to non-techys to close apps, so my gf ends up with every app under the sun running 24/7 and it slows down to a halt.
<daftykins> DJones: nice :D i have mates in other trades but not gas reg'd plumbers sadly!
<arsen> as predicted, my Wagas has arrived. lol.
<daftykins> arsen: lol every time i need to restart my clients iMac she has about 10 word docs, 5 draft emails, a couple of powerpoint presentations and Outlook open >_<
<arsen> exactly!
<MartijnVdS> ex-windows users mostly, probably
<daftykins> i just save everything to the desktop so she knows where it is ;x
<MartijnVdS> who expect "I closed it so it's gone"
<daftykins> nah Windows would be more obvious that something's still running
<daftykins> you could close off docs but still have an indicator light beneath the dock icon for a prog
<daftykins> (with OS X)
<daftykins> but in this case it's docs too, all open just 'minimised'
<dvrr> openvpn  windows 7 client   connection  i recived this problem  please resolve  open this url  http://paste.ubuntu.com/6529339/
<daftykins> dvrr: "this problem" = ?
<dvrr> yes
<dvrr> Initialization Sequence Completed With Errors
<daftykins> hmm looks fun
<dvrr> i connected  in linux  client
<SuperMatt> err mer gerd, waiting for this call from rackspace is just the worst
<dvrr> daftykins: windows client i faced  this problem Initialization Sequence Completed With Errors  openvpn  but    linux client working
<daftykins> dvrr: try disabling the Windows Firewall on the Windows client as a test
<daftykins> SuperMatt: twiddling your thumbs watching the phone? :(
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Don't forget to brush up on your American language skills!
<dvrr> yes  i disabled  window firewall  all same problem recived
<diplo> What role have you applied for SuperMatt ?
<foobarry> dvrr: is this for home or work?
<MooDoo> diplo: some tech job at rackspace.....
<SuperMatt> diplo: you don't apply for a role, you apply for the company and they put you where they think you'll do best
<dvrr> work
<diplo> Oh right, sounds my sort of place :)
<SuperMatt> daftykins: pretty much so. It's so nerveracking
<dvrr> foobarry: from fast 1 week i faced this problem  please
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: did they say they will contact you today?
<SuperMatt> today or monday
<SuperMatt> which means I'm potentially in for an entire week of pain
<SuperMatt> *weekend
<MooDoo> ah just forget it, if they phone it will be a suprise
<SuperMatt> it's hard to forget when it's bloomin rackspace!
<foobarry> dvrr: not to be rude but i suggest you take it to your sysadmins at work who setup the vpn
<dvrr> me only
<dvrr> cerated openvpn
<foobarry> i received an amazon delivery with correct address but the billing details were someone completely differnt :S
<shauno> merry christmas foobarry
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> it was something we ordered
<foobarry> but if they put the wrong slip in mine, i wonder if all the packages got out of sync
<foobarry> and 100s have that prob
<daftykins> dvrr: even if you set it up, if you're at work - you are unlikely to be allowed to connect out without authorisation
<daftykins> foobarry: that sounds nasty :S
<daftykins> foobarry: did it have name, address and last 4 digits of their card?
<foobarry> daftykins: invoice number, billing address, shipping address as some lady in leicester
<foobarry> on christmas day i will mostly be sorting 10,000 hama beads into separate colours
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> foobarry: making necklaces?
<foobarry> no, 8 bit mario and angry birds
<daftykins> 8D
<foobarry> my son hates the darth vader on angry birds, finds it scary, and then says daddy can we make the black robot from angry birds star wars?
<foobarry> nutter
<foobarry> we have mario, yoshi, and angry birds characters done so far
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> maybe he wants a form of it he can attack
<popey> foobarry: i had a similar issue one christmas when we got a box addressed to us, with someone elses presents in
<daftykins> i made a space invader from small mosaic tiles off ebay
<daftykins> popey: erk!
<popey> we complained and they told us to keep them
<popey> and they sent ours
<daftykins> nothing of any great value then? :(
<foobarry> wow
<ali1234> foobarry: maybe the other person ordered the exact same thing?
<foobarry> the address label was correct though
<foobarry> they did order the same thing
<foobarry> to: address on the front is OK, but inside label not OK
<directhex> foobarry, hama seems an odd choice for vector characters like angry birds
<directhex> no anti-aliasing with beads ;)
<foobarry> just following orders...  :)
<directhex> "no, son, angry birds sucks. let's do classic 16 bit characters like bubsy and plok and rolo the elephant!"
<ali1234> hehehe
<directhex> i only actually own one of those 3 games
<foobarry> http://ubuntuone.com/6FxeaC1FFwyCCckBU7eDV3
<foobarry> directhex:  ^^
<directhex> u1. might take a few hours to load
<ali1234> heh
<foobarry> :(
<ali1234> someone should make a 3d version of hama beads
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: can't you do layers?
<foobarry> lok for hama tardis
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: i dunno, but it can't be easy
<foobarry> http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/317/c/9/hama_bead_tardis_by_lwordish-d5kwczc.jpg
<ali1234> i'm imagining like lego then you bake it
<foobarry> that involves layers and glue i think
<ali1234> er... aren't you supposed to iron it to the holes close up?
<foobarry> i do
<foobarry> they didn't
<foobarry> because i suspect they just glued them :P
<foobarry> wow is u1 down or seomthing?
<foobarry> super slow
<MartijnVdS> Doctor Glue
<foobarry> holes in the space/time fabric
<ali1234> imagine someone archaeologist digging this stuff up in 1000 years
<directhex> foobarry, the craftsmanship is fine, but artistically i don't approve of using vector characters for pixel art :p
<foobarry> time team 3000: "this was the work of a master craftsman"
<ali1234> "the primitive people of 2000 worshipped a god known a 'murry-o'"
<foobarry> directhex: we must all make sacrifices and compromise for our kids sometimes
<foobarry> like watching baby jake
<directhex> magic baby see
<directhex> magic baby do
<MartijnVdS> magic baby doo-doo
<directhex> deezy deezy doo
<directhex> there are worse shows than baby jake.
<foobarry> yes, i draw a line at those
<foobarry> worst one at the moment is one called the wiggles
<MooDoo> baby jake is ace, we also watch peppa pig, in the night garden,
<MartijnVdS> Parappa the Rapper?
<MooDoo> foobarry: wiggles is ace :D dorothy the dinosaur :)
<foobarry> abney and teal is the best
<foobarry> MooDoo: my son chnaged his name to dorothy for a few days
<MooDoo> lol
<foobarry> i told him it was a girl dinosaurs name
<foobarry> so he changed to grommit
<foobarry> and didn't speak for the day
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> swashbuckle is another good one my 5 year old loves that
<bigcalm> Who has pinched my SGS3's ear buds?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it wasn't me
<bigcalm> Hummmm Â¬,Â¬
<directhex> i think dirt girl world is probably the worst show on cbeebies
<directhex> and so is mike the knight
<MooDoo> love them both lol
<MooDoo> nina and the neurons is ace too :D
<arsen> why are you watching dirt girl world directhex ? :D
<directhex> MooDoo, nina <3
<MooDoo> directhex: she's mine
<arsen> speaking of cartoons, havent watched any modern toss for ages.
<directhex> arsen, because it's on tv?
<arsen> oh you're at home? :D
<directhex> MooDoo, nope. i called shotgun on all adult females with pigtails. it's the law.
<MooDoo> directhex: pah! no fair...
<directhex> arsen, it's on on sunday mornings, as it happens
<directhex> MooDoo, see also josie jump from balamory
<MooDoo> directhex: what about rebecca from lets play
<directhex> an expert in role-play...
<directhex> although i've only laid claim to her at specific times, e.g. when sid was playing a cowboy.
<directhex> perversions aside, i reckon the best shows on cbeebies are sarah & duck, abney & teal, and tinga tinga tales
<MooDoo> what's sad is that yu carry on watching them when you've put your kids to bed ;)
<directhex> nope, because cbeebies ends at 7pm, and nathan goes to bed at 7:20
<MooDoo> ah my lad goes at 7:30 but he'll play minecraft till then
<MartijnVdS> directhex: so he gets 20 minutes of BBC Three? ;)
<MartijnVdS> "Sun, Sex & Suspicious Parents"
<MooDoo> that's an aweful show
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: most of BBC3 is
<MartijnVdS> except for the Doctor Who and Sherlock reruns ;)
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> sherlock o/
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: apparently, new episodes start January 1st!
<directhex> MooDoo, 18 month old. bad at minecraft. enjoys super hexagon though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBFgsFeZCgU
<directhex> MartijnVdS, 7pm means bathtime. then book then bed. no bbc3
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Also, bbc3, not really age-appropriate for 18 months I guess
<arsen> didn't know you had a youngen, directhex :)
<directhex> protip for new parents: babies don't like lullabies, they like progressive house. buy your toddler some deadmau5 today!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not old-school techno!?
<MartijnVdS> ls
<directhex> MartijnVdS, anything as long as it's not dubstep, really
<directhex> see also https://twitter.com/EpicGames/status/225033092098818049
<MartijnVdS> directhex: my mother used to turn on the vacuum cleaner to make me sleep
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that's an old one
<directhex> same reason, of course
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Epic Games? Did they drop the "Mega"?
<MartijnVdS> oh.. they did. in 1999
<directhex> for younger yoof, plug your smartphone into the wall and run http://www.ipnossoft.com/project/relax-melodies/
<directhex> recommended white noise app.
<foobarry> we watch bagpuss, button moon and  postman pat/bob/abney mostly
<directhex> abney & teal feels french to me. dunno why. it's made in stratford
<directhex> same company as teletubbies, brum, pob, rosie & jim, ITNG
<arsen> brum! rosie and jim!
<arsen> <3 childhood.
<MartijnVdS> "Ow my childhood!"
<Adriannom> how do i change the seconds hand on the system clock?
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: change it to what?
<MooDoo> you have to do the whole lot it's easier
<Adriannom> sure, but how do i change it so that i have control over the seconds
<MooDoo> you just set it something like this date -s "2 OCT 2006 18:00:00"
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: if you install the "ntp" package, it's synchronized to reference clocks all over the world
<MooDoo> for exampple
<Adriannom> nice one, cheers :)
<MartijnVdS> you should never need to set the clock yourself
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, nah i need to manually sync with something
<MooDoo> ^^^^ what MartijnVdS said :)
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: ah, you're in the TARDIS then?
<Adriannom> lol
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you know it's bigger on the inside?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: that's what.. never mind.
<MooDoo> lol
<bashrc> yep, ntp is super
<MartijnVdS> One of the things i want to do with my Pi
<MartijnVdS> figure out NTP Reference clocks/GPS stuff :)
<Adriannom> i'm calculating stuff from hand histories from pokerstars, and the only way i can figure out to work it is to sync my time with theirs. it's a bit flakey actually, wish there was a better way
<Adriannom> thought you meant time travel then
<Adriannom> dunno if the pi is powerful enough
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: people have done it, using the serial port pins and a GPS from a place like adafruit
<Adriannom> time travel?
<Adriannom> awesome
<Adriannom> link?
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: no, GPS stuff 8-)
<Adriannom> ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html
<Adriannom> got two pis running xbmc. i need something similar but more powerful as a kitchen pc though :)
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: Intel NUC
<Adriannom> thanks, i'll look
<Adriannom> nice low power consumption, looks pretty good
<Adriannom> have you got one MartijnVdS ?
<ali1234> seriously tho, why d you need to sync your clock with theirs?
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: I have one in use as a "2 video streams an a refreshing TODO list" screen
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: it's like an ultrabook in a different form factor
<daftykins> omg my shower is now so powerful the force of the spray makes it swing upward XD
<Adriannom> ali1234, because i need to calculate when the big blind goes up in a sng so i can calculate my relative stack size accurately with a script. i just can't do the maths quick enough in my head for turbo tourneys :o
<ali1234> oh so you are calculating based on the current game in progress? fair enough then
<Adriannom> yeah
<daftykins> there was another board that seems to have more beans than the r-pi and isn't far off price wise
<ali1234> beagle bone?
<daftykins> nah
<ali1234> well it fits the description
<daftykins> one was the cubieboard i think which even has a SATA port, but i was really thinking of yet another
<Adriannom> MartijnVdS, how do you mean? is it running x and a brower?
<Adriannom> *browser
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: it's running X, 2 VLCs and a browser with some customizations, yes
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: but it's way overpowered for what I'm doing with it :)
<Adriannom> how's the multi tabs / flash performance?
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: It's an Intel CPU/GPU, so it's fine. Especially if you get the i5 or i7 one
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: you'll have to find an affordable mSATA SSD though, and for wifi a mini-pcie wifi card
<daftykins> are you talking about NUCs still?
<Adriannom> don't need wifi, and i could run the os off usb/sd
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I am
<daftykins> i've read that the haswell NUCs still have major issues with XBMC, fwiw
<daftykins> read/been told
<Adriannom> nice to see a gigabit card in there
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: sure, but an usb thing sticking out of it looks ugly :)
<MartijnVdS> Adriannom: and a 30GB mSATA SSD is only a few Â£
<directhex> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002Z9RYSA/
<Adriannom> lol
<foobarry> what dpi should i scan a 6x4 photo at for good repro?
<foobarry> i suspect they have been scanned themselves so will go for 600 dpi
<davmor2> foobarry: The dpi only matters with what you are doing with it, if you intend to edit it and play about with it then higher is better, if it is to post online the lower is fine :)
<foobarry> davmor2: its a b/w photo to print 6x4 copies of
<davmor2> foobarry: 600 should be fine then, if you find it's missing detail on the first print rescan at a high rate
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> now to learn colourisation :S
<bigcalm> Are the nvidia binary drivers usable with 13.10 yet? I dare not install them because it means an OS reinstall when the system gets trashed
<SuperMatt> I've never had to reinstall after a messed up binary install
<SuperMatt> but why not use the nvidia drivers in the repos?
<bigcalm> I did. They stopped the machine from booting
<bigcalm> I might try at the weekend with a fresh install on a spare HDD
<SuperMatt> if they stopped the machine from booting, I don't think you'll have much luck with the nvidia binaries
<bigcalm> Eh?
<bigcalm> The additional drivers available without having to use a PPA gave me trouble
<SuperMatt> well, there's not really much different between what's in the repo, and what you get from the nvidia binaries
<davmor2> bigcalm: all you have to do is boot into safe mode and do sudo apt-get purge nvidia-version_number and the binary is removed and you are back to the default nouveau driver
<bigcalm> davmor2: in doing so I then ended up with error boxes upon logging into unity
<bigcalm> Like the ones I showed you on my laptop
<davmor2> bigcalm: you'll get them anyway :P
<daftykins> the sunlight over Sark looked good just now
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8zm7503ipadgd9/IMG_20131206_154404.jpg
<bigcalm> davmor2: nope, not seen any yet on this install
<DJones> Hmmh, have to laugh at this http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/125647-teen-buys-450-xbox-one-on-ebay-and-only-receives-photo-of-console
<DJones> Even worse, a 19 year old buying an xbox for his 4 year old kid......so that would make him 15 when the kid was born, take off 9 months, could almost be 14 getting his partner pregnant
<SuperMatt> I'm sickened more that society has failed him, more than anything.
<SuperMatt> no doubt the root of the issue is that he probably had nothing better to be doing at the time
<SuperMatt> which is what all my friends who lost their virginity at an early age said
<SuperMatt> some of them though had the sense to make sure they didn't get pregnant
<bashrc> I don't really take a strong view on the topic of at what age people should become parents
<bashrc> it seems to me that there is never really a "right time" to have offspring
<daftykins> financial stability can be for their benefit though
<daftykins> as well as maturity
<bashrc> its always possible to find reasons not to have children - too young, too old, to poor, too busy, etc
<foobarry> if the kid had an xbox at 14, would he have got the girl pregnant?
<foobarry> probably unrelated
<daftykins> XD
<foobarry> certain estranged family member sold his for a pittance to pay off frivilous debts
<daftykins> debts at a young age?
<foobarry> drug related most likely
<foobarry> "debt"= owes mates 50 quid
<foobarry> mummy and child are curled up under blanket watching snowman and snowdog
<daftykins> ^_^ how old's your little one?
<foobarry> makes me wish my chrimstas holidays had started
<foobarry> 3, nearly 4
<foobarry> got a v little on etoo at 8 months
<daftykins> ooh :)
<foobarry> 3yr old is arguing whether they are going to south or north pole
<daftykins> i have no idea - what age is it they tend to start talking?
<foobarry> 9 months is MAMA
<foobarry> between 2-3 years they start sentences
<daftykins> wowzer
<foobarry> at 3-4 they say words like condensation, wonderful, astounding in regular use
<foobarry> but still get past tense wrong a bit
<foobarry> i bringed , i singed ,
<daftykins> :)
<JamesTait> Instead of I brought and I sought. :-P
<JamesTait> Hm, maybe I brung and I sung?
<daftykins> i think my jaw would drop to the floor upon hearing a 3 year old with a polysyllabic vocabulary
<foobarry> kids can remember it all though
<daftykins> possibly start imagining they're a child genius
<JamesTait> They have brains like sponges.
<foobarry> most 3yr olds can probably memorise a dinosaur encyclopaedia
<JamesTait> My jaw frequently drops to the floor with the things my boys come out with.
<daftykins> it would probably pay to have a good choice of material on hand to educate them with by feeding that sponge with a good variety :D
<daftykins> JamesTait: any examples? :)
<JamesTait> You think they're not listening, then they say something astounding and I wonder where the heck it came from.
<foobarry> i had a convo about where water goes when you flush it
<foobarry> hadto explain the sewage system
<JamesTait> I remember the one time my then-6-year-old son navigated the way to a park he'd last been to when he was 3.  He tried initially to tell me which park he meant (he called it "Micky's park" - it was the park that backed onto the garden of one of my wife's clients, Vicky), but when I didn't know where he meant, he told me how to drive there.
<foobarry> and show him the water treatment works 3 miles away
<daftykins> JamesTait: O_O
<foobarry> i regularly ask my son to direct me, he has his mums sense of direction
<daftykins> i never watched wher were were driving as a kid
<daftykins> *where we were
<JamesTait> I had him in the front passenger seat, in his car seat, and he told me when to turn and everything.
<daftykins> weird SSH lark going on today
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> that sounds like something from a comedy D:
<foobarry> think i've mention that my son has memorised all the books of the bible, in order
<foobarry> i had to memorise it so I didn't lose respect
<daftykins> hehe
<JamesTait> The other night, I forget what we were doing, one of us made reference to "the three dots" - and he said "you mean the ellipsis".  I don't think I knew what that was called until I got to University! :-P
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> i learned that when postfix was truncating email sent with an ellipsis
<daftykins> O_O
<foobarry> at 30 something
<daftykins> JamesTait: that sounds like an effective school ;)
<JamesTait> There are countless other examples - some where he's come out with stuff he's picked up at school, but others where I've asked, "Where did you learn that?" and he says, "You told me!" and it just reminds me to keep explaining things, even if it seems like he's not interested or not listening.
<foobarry> i keep testing my son for aspergers
<foobarry> subtley
<foobarry> not sure if all kids are the same or not
<JamesTait> I'm saying "he" because both examples I've given were from the same son, but the younger one is the same.  In fact, he's probably even more impressive with some of the things he comes out with.
<JamesTait> Who was it who said we're all different, but we're all the same, or something similar?
<daftykins> that drunk fella down the pub? ;)
<foobarry> has anyone colourised a b/w photo before?
<foobarry> not sure whether to fix contrast issues and cleanup before or after colourising
<ali1234> foobarry: what software are you using
<ali1234> you should use an adjustment layer for the contrast, then you're not doing it before or after, but both
<foobarry> ali1234: gimp
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> well, god luck with that
<foobarry> there's blemishes etc on it too
<ali1234> you have almost no non-destructive editing capability
<foobarry> i'm following this http://tutorialgeek.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/use-gimp-to-create-color-photos-from.html
<ali1234> yeah, "make a copy of layers so you can go back"
<ali1234> this is why gimp sucks
<foobarry> i'll manage
<foobarry> bit unsure about colour of caucasaian skin
<daftykins> wow Microsoft really did it with Windows 8
<daftykins> even dumping the key inside the EFI with Linux gets rejected for trying to obtain a 'Windows 8' (non-Pro) ISO
<daftykins> "This product key cannot be used to install a retail version of Windows 8"
<ali1234> well it can't...
<daftykins> yeah thanks ali1234
<daftykins> very helpful :P
<ali1234> get the OEM ISO, assuming they still exist
<daftykins> yeah i tried changing the ei.cfg on a Pro ISO to start, didn't realise you can't do that
<daftykins> so i'm having to use other channels to obtain an 8.1 Core edition ISO
<ali1234> directhex probably knows how to do it
<daftykins> i'll get there :)
<daftykins> it's just worse than ever
<ali1234> btw, it's been this way since windows 7
<ali1234> probably XP
<directhex> 7 was laid back about keys and isos
<directhex> you could download from publically available urls
<ali1234> yeah, but you still had to have the right one for whatever was in your bios
<daftykins> no it hasn't been like this with 7
<daftykins> 7 is COMPLETELY different
<daftykins> no there weren't keys in the BIOS for 7 IME
<ali1234> well, there was for XP
<daftykins> maybe i just didn't see any EFI'd 7's though
<daftykins> no XP was easy too
<ali1234> 7 does not support EFI
<daftykins> VL, Home and Pro ISOs
<daftykins> appropriate key = sorted
<daftykins> yes it does support EFI
<ali1234> oh yeah. it doesn't support secure boot
<ali1234> anyway, all dell machines sold in the past 10 years have the real key in the bios. the key on the label won't work with a retail ISO
<directhex> 7 supports efi.
<directhex> windows vista x64 sp1 onwards do.
<ali1234> (and nor will the one from the bios if you dump it)
<daftykins> also not true i'm afraid, i reinstaled my clients new Dell systems with the key on their COA stickers
<daftykins> *reinstalled
<directhex> also windows for itanium totally supports efi :D
<ali1234> and then 2 months later they suddenly got "this copy of windows is not genuine"
<ali1234> either that or you didn't use a retail install cd, you used the dell one which automatically picked up the real key from the bios
<daftykins> it was a vanilla win7 ISO from digital river
<directhex> MSDM tables are supported in Vista onwards too
<directhex> and SLIC
<daftykins> in fact i think i was doing a win8 downgrade
<ali1234> i guess 7 ws more relaxed then
<ali1234> that didn't work with XP, i have a dell machine right here where it doesn't work
<daftykins> XP really depended on what media you had
<daftykins> volume license, Pro or Home
<daftykins> it didn't care across service packs either
<directhex> xp was a very different beast to 7, as far as how lenient it was over media goes
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-07
<knightwise> morning
<shauno> barely.  go back to sleep!
<mappps> hey
<mappps> sleep time for me soon:P
<popey> mng
<MartijnVdS> gmng 8-)
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/gallery/pvIJ57a
<foobarry> :D
<foobarry> http://windoge.com/
<foobarry> first time i've seen this
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<foobarry> hello brobostigon
<foobarry> i think everyone is out today
<brobostigon> morning foobarry
<foobarry> whats happening today>?
<Myrtti> car shoppin
<foobarry> is that \o/ or /o\
<foobarry> i was scanning in some photos my dad left behind and as i took one out of the frame, i found a hidden one of my nan, probably taken in 1930s/40s :)
<popey> o/
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/tdrx0Fa.jpg
<foobarry> ive tried colourising one but i wasnt v good
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/q5q3Xi5.jpg
<foobarry> turns out its quite hard
<popey> http://en.reddit.com/r/ColorizationRequests
<foobarry> not sure what going rate is
<popey> scan through some existing requests
<foobarry> just says PM and discuss, i was trawling a few last night
<popey> http://en.reddit.com/user/RDSKNS seems quite active
<popey> saw some of his previous stuff
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/blDdcwl.png
<foobarry> cool ta i will look
<Myrtti> foobarry: /o\
<foobarry>  EP0618540 on a âcommon name space for long and short filenamesâ is invalid in its entirety (including Microsoftâs proposed amendments) because the court found that all of the elements distinguishing the patented invention from the prior art (which includes a Linus Torvalds post to a mailing list) did not satisfy the technicity requirement under European patent law.
<foobarry> FAT patent prior art \o/
<brobostigon> how do i get rid of widgets off the desktop on android 4.4?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: long-press, then drag them to the trash can at the top
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: same as removing icons
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> am having a play with cm-11-m1 on my nexus7
 * foobarry wonders if b&q still sell sugru
<foobarry> brobostigon: also if you long hold while the icon is on the trash can, you can uninstall apps too
<brobostigon> interesting.
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/NPacWrV.png
<brobostigon> lol
<brobostigon> found a bug, in landscape orientation the remove thing doesnt appear, but in portrait shows up fine.
<knightwise> afternoon ladies
<brobostigon> afternoodlings knightwise
<mapps> brr prety cold today!
<foobarry> its OK in london
<penguin42> yeh seems warm up here in Manc
<MartijnVdS> It's ice cold in .nl
<MartijnVdS> not quite freezing
<MartijnVdS> but it feels like it
<mapps> seems cold here in Stoke
<mapps> just wokeup and went downstairs and house is cold
 * foobarry has central heating
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: well yes, inside..
<foobarry> wish i could go back to bed
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but I have to go outside soon :|
<mapps> I'm going to nl next week ..i expected it to be cold
<MartijnVdS> mapps: hah, I'm on London next week 8-)
<mapps> and whats with all the non UK in here1! thought it was ubuntu-uk (im just kidding ) :)
<mapps> cool
<MartijnVdS> on? in!
<mapps> where in Holland are you?
<foobarry> just had to stand in a feidl for 30 mins throwing a ball for the dog
<MartijnVdS> mapps: in "Alphen aan den Rijn"
<foobarry> mmm alpen
<mapps> I'm staying in some crummy hotel in leidseplein
<mapps> lol foobarry
<MartijnVdS> mapps: in the most expensive bit of the city, then
<foobarry> mmmm lederhosen
<mapps> leidseplein ? i dont know
<mapps> i just know it said
<mapps> lots of bars/restaurants around
<MartijnVdS> mapps: it's in the middle of the "food for tourists" area
<mapps> ah yes
<MartijnVdS> mapps: check out paradiso.nl and melkweg.nl -- they're both right next to Leidseplein :)
<foobarry> i just dicsovered that eating lebkuchen followed by marzipan is super scrummy and christmassy
<mapps> so all those clubs in leidseplein do normal dutch people go there? or not?
<mapps> want to go to places that arent just tourists
<MartijnVdS> mapps: rarely. Melkweg and Paradiso are popular with everyone though
<MartijnVdS> mapps: but they're more concert venues
<mapps> ah yes i heard of paradiso
<foobarry> lol i went to eindhoven and they wanted to go to amsterdam or maastricht for a night out. i said why not the bars here? we're only here for the weekend
<mapps> ah
<mapps> heh foobarry  :D
<mapps> its just nice to not go to places toutists only go
<mapps> prefer going where the locals would go too
<foobarry> why you there?
<foobarry> family trip?
<foobarry> shexy weekend?
<mapps> na just a trip with a friend going for 3 nights/4 days
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I don't know any of those.. I only work in Amsterdam, I don't live there ;)
<mapps> aha
<mapps> its like in Prague the bars in the main area asre as my czch friend puts it 'tourist traps'
<mapps> and no czech people go there lol hardly surprisinggiven the ripoff prices
 * penguin42 was in Munich Monday/Tuesday - didn't get too much time to look around, wasn't as cold as people had warmed me it would be
<MartijnVdS> mapps: I'm never going back to Prague. Horrible city imho.
<mapps> really?
<mapps> I likd it a lot
<foobarry> would it be nice if nobody else was there?
<foobarry> i watched a programme about stag parties in prague
<foobarry> not pleasant
<mapps> well foobarry except yea noral uk bar fine..but goin abroad you dont wanna go to some bar and pay ripoff prices on your own
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Everything was black and grimy.. nobody seemed to understand/speak any language in common with me
<mapps> ah i didnt go anywhere like that
<MartijnVdS> beer was cheap, that's a plus.. but meh
<foobarry> they also reckoned the stats are that if a stag party is going from UK -> prague then the chances are around 50% that the groom sleeps with a prossie
<mapps> yea thats true MartijnVdS
<mapps> umm
<foobarry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cwv1l
<mapps> when i was in prage i was surprised how few people understood me and could speak english..retal workers/bars/clubs a bit..but not much
<mapps> and some people..nothing AT ALL
<mapps> like MartijnVdS  said
<mapps> but my friend on the other hand..he can speak english fluently..he lived here for a year..he's 34..bu his girlfriend ..25 can barely understand me i had to speak incredibly slow and 'broken english'
<mapps> im of the opinion his wont be the case in Holland..like it wouldnt be in sweden/denmark/norway?
<lornajane> mapps: in NL you will find English in most places, definitely
<mapps> yea
<MartijnVdS> If not all..
<mapps> you learn it at school?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<mapps> yea i thought so
<mapps> i think in czech it's optional
<MartijnVdS> and from reading Dutch subtitles to American TV shows 8-)
<mapps> which is crazy
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i assumed they would learn it in school and understand a bit at least
<lornajane> when I go to NL for technical events, they are nearly all in English and everyone can do small talk just as nicely in either language
<MartijnVdS> I know a few people who've learned Dutch (or tried), and they complained people just switched to English, instead of letting them try their Dutch 8-)
<foobarry> dutch is considered v hard
<foobarry> so we learned french instead
<lornajane> mapps: the Czech republic hasn't been particularly western-facing until recent decades, I expect that will change.  Just like in Spain, my generation speaks English but their parents spoke French
<mapps> but i guess a lot dont care. apparently some are scared to try their english in czech and one girl in particular called Petra ..we were in a small bare in prague and she's just looking a me blank faced and then says 'your accent funny'
<mapps> LOL
<foobarry> i speak some russki
<mapps> hey lornajane  yea that makes sense - but ihe's 34..id have thought a 25 year old girl would be better? also ..when i was in Majorca..ok it's not mainland Spain..the average person there had poor english
<mapps> and ofte drew blank stares
<lornajane> I dunno, I don't really expect people in other places to speak English
<lornajane> certainly I'm much happier going to NL than anywhere else for that reason though
<penguin42> the Germans mostly seem to speak good English
<mapps> yea
<mapps> and the scandos!
<MartijnVdS> with heavy German accents 8-)
<foobarry> YESSS stoke 3 v 2 chelsea
<mapps> everyone swede/dane ive met at work has had great english
<mapps> lornajane,  i do when it's tourist areas and most of their business seems to be from tourists
<mapps> i kinda expect a decent level of english
<penguin42> (the only one that didn't was a checkout worker at a supermarket - but the till told me the right amount, but why don't they have self scans....)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I hate self-scans
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I love them!
<foobarry> unexpected item in bagging area
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'm always in line behind a technophone
<mapps> hm i do and i dont..it's convenient at times..but then it's also doing someone out of a job
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh it was like that when they were introduced a few years ago here, but they've been here for so long it's not a problem any more
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: and anyway the technophobes go to the meetbag line
<foobarry> there's a minimum lengh of time for those self  checkout, which is far longer than throwing exacg change at a person
<foobarry> i'm buying one item, why do i have to put it in bagging area
<foobarry> before paying
<mapps> but what if they just made it all self serve
<mapps> and d away with lots of retail workers
<mapps> that wouldn't be good - wouldn't affect me much but still
<foobarry> ever bought 200 items at once?
<mapps> dont think so
<foobarry> it would take forever on those crappy self serve things
<mapps> yea
<foobarry> massive queues
<foobarry> most shopping is in that format
<penguin42> foobarry: Oh I generally have the ones I know down to seconds in the selfscan for one item
<mapps> with the pesky weight thing too saying 'please put the item on' when it already is
<foobarry> weekly shops for family
<mapps> got 2 holidays left from my holiday allowance for this year:D
<penguin42> but yeh I do use them for a handful of items rather than a full shop
<foobarry> got 1 day.. plus 5 days which i will carry
<mapps> i just use them for small stuff normally
<mapps> i do my big shop online anyway as i dont have a car
<mapps> Holland - december ..Finland January..back to Majorca in March
<mapps> should be enough to remind me i have to keep working for a living
<mapps> :)
 * foobarry doesn't have a pasport
<mapps> :(
<mapps> expired?
<foobarry> few years ago
<mapps> right pita when ythey expire
<mapps> like 60/70 quid aint it to renew?
<foobarry> probby 80+ now
<foobarry> dnno
<foobarry> young kids = estate car and roobbox for holidays
<mapps> roobox?
<MartijnVdS> roof box?
<mapps> oh
<mapps> that makres sense yea
<MartijnVdS> we call them "grandmother storage boxes" in my family
<mapps> hoorah
<mapps> got cgiirc working so i can irc from work
<mapps> heh
<mapps> anyone know which file to edit to change the title yhat appears in the browser
<mapps> would prefer it to just say blank page :D
<MartijnVdS> <title> in <head> .. probably easy to grep?
<mapps> how could i grep the entire testing dir including subdirs?
<MartijnVdS> grep -r
<mapps> testing is where i put it
<mapps> ah
<mapps> thanks
<mapps> grep -r title> * ?
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> because > is special in shell
<mapps> ah of course
<MartijnVdS> you have to escape it, using \ (so \>), or quote the entire argument 'like this'
<mapps> found it;D mozzila.pm
<mapps> thanks mate
<mapps> http://94.193.78.219/testing or https://94.193.78.219/testing work for people? seems to when i tried
<MartijnVdS> asks for a password on http
<MartijnVdS> https complains about the cert
<mapps> thanks mate
<mapps> yea
<mapps> it would do as its generated myself and not signedby a 3rd party
<mapps> but for me thats fine..i know its safe and wont complain:D
<foobarry> chinese takeaway tonight :) not sure what to get
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: Chinese food.
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: asking for pizza would be awkward :P
<foobarry> its actually cantonese ;)
<popey> \o/ nibbles
<mapps> lol
<mapps> foobarry, nandos is better!
<ali1234> mapps: don't use regexp to parse html
<mapps> hm why? all i wanted was to find where title tag is so i could edit tyhe file
<ali1234> i guess that's ok
<map|work> ;]
<map|work> cgiirc working finally :D tried to get webirc working some ajax one but wouldnt work so gave up
<map|work> but question..its using SSL on my box..so work cant snoop on what im doing? between work and my machine?
<penguin42> did they install your machine?
<map|work> my work one yea
<penguin42> so they probably installed their own CA certs
<map|work> crappy windows machine ..but im connecting to my home server over SSL
<map|work> but wait.i mean im connecting to my home server using ssl using my certs
<penguin42> how do you know you're using your certs?
<map|work> well im connecting to my machines web server using SSL i generated the SSL cert myself so surely i am
<map|work> https://94.193.78.219/
<penguin42> map|work: But you could have a man-in-the-middle, i.e. your company could get you to connect to something that signs it with something linked to their cert and then makes a new outward connection to your machine
<map|work> hmm how would that happen though? surely theyd have to redirect me to somewhere else before connecting to my server
<map|work> and my chrome window says its using my certificate when i click the information
<penguin42> yeh but that's easily done
<penguin42> hmm if it says it's using your certificate and the data shown on that certificate (including all the fingerprints) then it probably isn't being intercepted
<map|work> yea ut says its mine..I mean it says error could be insecure..but thats just because my cert isnt signedby a 3rd party CA i believe
<penguin42> right, but a man-in-the-middle could generate another self-signed to give to you with the same sig
<map|work> so lets assume they arent trying to MITM me..there's probably more for them to do big company 2200 employees
<map|work> yea
<map|work> ok but asusming they arent and its using my SSL cert my communicayion between work and my server is encrypted?
<penguin42> yeh, assuming they haven't got something else installed on your machine monitoring it
<map|work> thanks
<daftykins> you're at work - you should be working! :)
<map|work> well they have remote desktop software..but it tells me when someone connects co i can just quickly close a tap or minimise etc
<map|work> dafty im doing my job aswell though..right now:) but i can also irc so i see nothing wrongh
<map|work> i read my news sites using feedly at work and all too..aslong as i dont make errors and do my job who cares
<penguin42> if you had evil admins they could insert dummy stories in your feed
<daftykins> :D yeah i'm just teasing
<daftykins> penguin42: lmao - ones about getting sacked due to misapproriation of business resources XD
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod
<map|work> lol
<penguin42> personalised
<map|work> that wouldnt be nice:)
<map|work> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57614864-71/busboys-mom-throws-ipad-in-fire-customer-buys-him-new-one/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title lol
<daftykins> i still need to try out inoreader - i'm not fond of feedly needing a net connection permanently
<map|work> i used tio use google reader but obv cant anymore..i love feedly
<map|work> works well imo
 * penguin42 uses newsblur
<map|work> hadnt even heard of it..looking now..web based?
<penguin42> web, android app and I think some others
<map|work> nice - what do you use browser wise..I used to use ff only..but now mainly chrome just because i can login to my google ac and synch bookmarks at home/work/ipad/phone
<penguin42> ff I was using chrome for a while but it got too buggy for me
<map|work> yea i do find flash crashes from time to time and sometimes everything runs slow as hell if ive got say 15-20 tabs open
<map|work> what you using now
<map|work> back in a bit
<map|work> http://www.businessinsider.com/smartphone-controlled-paper-airplane-2013-12
<map|work> that seems mad cool
 * popey backed it
<map|work> nice
<map|work> i'd only just heard of it..no point in backing now i guess it raised 9x over what he asked? he only asked for $50,000
<map|work> will definitely buy one though
<skellat> AlanBell: Congratulations.  I just clicked off on verification and all that so Ubuntu UK should be good for 2 years hence.
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> morning D:
<bigcalm> Is it?
<daftykins> that's more what i was asking :)
<bigcalm> I've completely forgotten why I came to my office
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> is it dark and are you alone?
<bigcalm> Wife is watching trashy TV
<bigcalm> Good reason me for to hide in my office
<popey> o/
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> bigcalm: you should get one of those 3D TVs that lets each specs wearer watch a different source
<daftykins> \o/
<bigcalm> I don't watch a lot of telly
<AlanBell> thanks skellat
<diddledan> yawnicles
<diddledan> amazon elastic beanstalk is.. pretty awesome
<diddledan> it's their standard IaaS offering wrapped in a PaaS box
<diddledan> <3
<map|work> hm
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/6l84owi1lzcr94m/IMG_20131207_214549.jpg
<daftykins> more Christmas lights from the Guernsey high-street
<map|work> oh god damn
<map|work> Application Blocked  Access to the application you were trying to use has been blocked in accordance with company policy. Please contact your system administrator if you believe this is in error.
<map|work> Application: web-browsing
<map|work> lol
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> oops
<map|work> it's pretty annoying loads is blocked..sourceforge comes up as being blocked for email
<map|work> or some nonsense
<daftykins> =/
<map|work> ya tis annoying
<map|work> yet twitter isnt blocked and there's filth on there
<daftykins> i'm sure it's just some automated blacklist they operate
<daftykins> rather than being manual choices made
<map|work> more than likely ya
<map|work> amuses me how there's so many different departments..service desk..'desktop engineers/release engineers
<map|work> engineers? using windows..pah
<popey> wow, pretty daftykins
<daftykins> popey: they say it costs Â£40k a year to put the town lights up >_<
<map|work> put it somewhere elseso i can see;[
<daftykins> hrmm, can you get to imgur.com ?
<daftykins> or tinypic.com
<map|work> sec
<map|work> imgur yea
<shauno> I Wonder how much of that 40k is just unionized manhours
<daftykins> shauno: they make the fire brigade put them up!
<ali1234> i wonder how much of it got paid to insurance companies
<map|work> who turned them on though..which thrilling z lister;p
<daftykins> map|work: http://i.imgur.com/RJ2qxVU.jpg
<daftykins> sorry for the delay, i went off to make a hot chocolate!
<map|work> Thousands of people descended on Jubilee Square on Thursday evening (November 22) to witness Woking's Christmas lights being switched on by CBeebies star Justin Fletche
<map|work> seems early
<map|work> i dont even know who that is lol
<map|work> nice,t hanks
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i don't know people anymore - its passed me by
<map|work> ya i didnt recognise that name nor did i know the lights were on
<map|work> I go to town so infrequently , I don't have any need to ..online banking..online groceries ...online shopping for everything else i buy ..what would i go for lol
<map|work> so i can buy something for more than I'd pay on amazon? pah! ..
<arsen> impressive street daftykins
<daftykins> just one road over from home!
<daftykins> 'tis the hill descending to the high-street :)
<map|work> i saw some house where it was like totally covered..and costs them thousands to light up
<map|work> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516512/The-Christmas-countdown-begun-Britains-festive-street-switches-100-000-fairy-lights.html
<arsen> there's a house up the hill from mine, totally nuts lighting - 99% of the house covered, flagpoles erected to suspend chain lights around the rest of the area too lol
<diddledan> heh, he said flagpole
 * diddledan sniggers
<map|work> this is it!!
<map|work> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2497814/Meet-man-heats-home-thousands-FAIRY-LIGHTS-Twelfth-Night.html
<map|work> people go crazy with xmas lights eh
<map|work> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338033/The-house-MILLION-Christmas-lights.html
<arsen> wow. just wow.
<map|work> being that im such a cheery person i have no tree up , no decorations or lights and dont plan on changing it
<map|work> :)
<arsen> lol
<daftykins> arsen: heh sounds crazy
<arsen> well, i gave in this xmas, gona try and enjoy it - i do like the nostalgia of christmas and old 90's xmas films.
<map|work> i live on my own , have no kids and no partnr so figured why bother
<arsen> what did it was walking home the other day and i smelt smoke from a proper woodburner burning some nice wood.
<arsen> not a bad attitude, you can do as you so choose.
<arsen> i've done plenty of xmas working, missing out and being bored or alone - so this year i'm getting involved in whatever's going.
<arsen> saying that - i think i'm the only person i know in London tonight not out drinking, travelling, doing things.. merely sat here on my tod!
<daftykins> i just don't even own any decorations yet
<daftykins> so there's nothing at mine ;x
<arsen> plastic tree + fairy lights is the best place to start, it's good mood lighting if nothing else.
<map|work> arsen do you live alone tho?
<arsen> nay, Mrs has gone out with her mates.
<map|work> dafty do you live on your own too? just you say no decorations
<daftykins> map|work: yeah been in my place since March now, so it's my first Christmas away
<arsen> i'll be going back to the parents for xmas - i like bumming around in a tidy house where everything is sorted and the fridge is full!
<daftykins> :D
<map|work> ah right cool
<map|work> il be at my place
<daftykins> it's kinda weird 'cause the last house i had was in Portsmouth of course
<daftykins> so being able to be in my own place *and* cycle to my parents is - novel :D
<map|work> living the dream..normal routine with a few tims of strongbow:D
<daftykins> hehe
<arsen> speaking of which, gona order a curry and crack open my crabbies.
<map|work> like ...i dont do anyn xmas food shopping..my shopping is just the same..i dont order anything diff/buy any xmas garbage
<map|work> just the basics and some good old booze
<map|work> where'd you live now dafty?
<daftykins> well i was in Portsmouth for Uni with mr.arsen there :D
<daftykins> i grew up on and now live back here on Guernsey
<map|work> ah and arsen where you at?
<arsen> London these days :)
<map|work> when did you finish uni then?
<penguin42> map|work: See, I'm just the same but without the booze
<arsen> arh crap - out of beer and the shops just shut :(
<map|work> penguin42 another lone ranger?
<penguin42> map|work: Nod
<map|work> arsen/dafty when did you finish!!
<arsen> ~09?
<arsen> somewhere around then.
<map|work> ah
<map|work> well well well ..how strange, I too went to Portsmouth Uni, lived in Harry Law halls (behind yates's) then down Fawcett Road in my 2nd year
<map|work> i finished before you young'uns then
<map|work> 2007 i was done and enterred that fun thing we call ...work;/
<arsen> i was meant to graduate 08 i think, but i re-sat final year for a laugh.
<penguin42> srarted work in 97
<map|work> penguin42 - you're just old
<map|work> :D
<MartijnVdS> *in* 97, not *at* 97 :P
<daftykins> arsen: ah i didn't know that :)
<daftykins> map|work: yeah i escaped '08
<daftykins> but i also went late
<map|work> i liked it down in portsmouth tbh..the registry / route 66 (1.50 pints of stella!!!) ..breakneck at the pier ...time and envy, tantrum & bar bluu
 * daftykins is 28
<map|work> although tantrum bar bluu/time and envy now gone
<map|work> monday nights route 66 was kinda fun 20 quid and have a good night stumble home ..i loved the fact it's not a campuse based uni and all the buildings arwe scattered around
<arsen> pretty much, map|work - i was there for all of that, and then the replacement stuff :)
<arsen> can't complain - i had a great time, i'd do it all again exactly the same if i could.
<map|work> never been to any of the rest..i did like breakneck though..Jongleurs /Tiger Tiger - both sucked..I actually worked at Yates's in my 2nd year half way through then went to tiger tiger
<map|work> The Honest Politician/One eyed dog - id assume those are still there..u go them?
<arsen> hah, i worked at tiger for a year in my firstyear i think.
<arsen> yep. scary how many drinking joints i knew vveerrrry well.
<map|work> crap wages, crap pay , boring job..and managers that dont realise they've got a crap job that means nothing
<map|work> thats what irritated me most about crap jobs..the managers that seem to think theyre somehow doing something amazing..and are incredibly successful :)
<arsen> yeah - i came from a few nice cocktail bars up north to a trampy tiger tiger club that thought very highly of itself heh.
<map|work> what building were you in..Anglesea here..ECE!
<daftykins> map|work: yep that's where i was :)
<daftykins> i did comp network management and design
<map|work> yep ...it was barmy..but what was MORE BARMY..people paying a fiver to enter tiger tger on weekends and pay stupid prices a double vodka redbull was like 8quid or something ..like ROFL
<arsen> i dropped the bar work and went to work at Novatech part time.
<map|work> I'll give that a miss..seriously im paying a fiver to then PAY expensive prices? #mugs
<arsen> discount on PC components, basically :)
<map|work> I would've been in some of yourlectures then..had we been the same year
<map|work> umm remember Shikhun Zhou lol he made me laugh..I liked Martin Cripps..Nick Savage / thought Chi was a good lecturer too
<arsen> equally crappy job, mind you. awful bloke incharge of sales team, i quit when i was told off for offering honest advice to a bloke wanting to buy his kids a PC for xmas and couldnt afford Â£Â£Â£
<map|work> yep retail is just lie lie lie and say anything to get peoples money..
<arsen> i did the classic hollywood style "you can shove your job.." and walked out :D
<daftykins> map|work: ah man Dr. Zhou was ace - permanent smile on his face even when he was angry at you
<arsen> to think people actually did that job for a career is very depressing.
<map|work> yea lol
<map|work> same with bar work though mate..when i worked at yates's and the people there take it seriously..like come on it's a crap bar job..earning like 200quid a week before tax..yea what a life
<daftykins> he was the like, validation guy on my final project actually
<map|work> everyones your boss in those kinda jobs
<map|work> Linda Yang was for me..if you know her
<daftykins> cute asian lady?
<map|work> yep
<arsen> i was CompSci so not ECE :D some great lecturers in there, some awful.
<map|work> was cripps still lecturing when you were there?
<daftykins> yep! the legend
<daftykins> he was highly amusing
<map|work> Cripps was pretty good , covered a shedload from his units alone imo
<daftykins> i'm glad i wasn't in his personal tutor group though, he used to talk them to death apparently
<daftykins> whereas i had the super depressed young Greek guy Ioannis Kagalidis
<map|work> hahahahaha
<daftykins> i think he'd somehow got roped into it, as he had no idea what to do with us
<map|work> that taught Java?
<daftykins> yep
<map|work> :)
<map|work> quite liked Salems unit too / frank margrave was a bit of a tool
<map|work> uni was good :)
<daftykins> heh Frank was so hated, he ended up being my supervisor for the final project though
<daftykins> i rewrote the computer labs with his new favourite - Xen instead of VMware
<daftykins> it was a walk in the park pretty much, thing wrote itself
<map|work> because he was always 'look at me im so amazing' telling us how he was so good and he was going out on his boat tonight and he had a new quad core or whatever CPU at that time
<map|work> too much of a showoff...and i turned up once without my uni ID..wasnt allowed to sit the computer based exam LOL but i got to do it later..
<penguin42> map|work: You're right I'm old, I'm nearly as old as my nick's number
<map|work> :)
<daftykins> that happened to me 'cause Guernsey was always late submitting the details of who they were paying fees too, so i couldn't get my ID for a couple of weeks
<map|work> were u turned away from an exam?
<daftykins> nah Frank just looked kinda unimpressed then let me do it anyway
<daftykins> there's a fun rumour that he was only in the area because of his wife's job :)
<map|work> work sucks compared to uni
<map|work> i didnt even know his wif worked there
<daftykins> at the Uni? i had/have no idea where, just heard that once
<map|work> oh
<arsen> in the laziest fashion ever - i ordered a curry online using only the left mouse button.
<map|work> lol just-eat?
<daftykins> but yeah he was quite a character, one of my mates said the best way to deal with him was to realise that he was an ass to everyone :)
<arsen> some random curry house i just found
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> arsen: nice work sir
<daftykins> eating at 11 D:
<map|work> yep i think thats about right
<arsen> yeah i forgot :/ got sidetracked fiddling with my litecoin mining rig :D
<map|work> i did something stupid in my 1st year and after an exam had to speak to him..lol luckily we had like barely any time left of term..but i ran nmap from my account on lion.ee.port on another portasmouth.ee machine LOL
<map|work> my account was suspended for the end of that year
<daftykins> arsen: hehehe
<daftykins> map|work: lmao
<arsen> never built my own pc case before - worked out quite nicely.
<map|work> yep i know stupid eh from an ee server to an ee machine under my username? LOL
<daftykins> map|work: can you still SSH into ECE? they never seem to disable accounts
<map|work> i wasnt actually trying to do anything just like curious
<map|work> hmm sec
<map|work> its uxxxxxx right?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> 6 digit
<daftykins> in fact you know what, i saw my U number on a local car reg plate the other day
<daftykins> as Guernsey plates are just numbers
<map|work> lol
<daftykins> it was hilarious :D
<map|work> na didnt work for me
<daftykins> it took me a few seconds to realise why i recognised it
<map|work> u249006
<map|work> =[
<map|work> you could see peoples uni id pictures too from the web portal
<arsen> turns out the place i ordered from isnt the one i thoguht it was - so rather than ~200m from my house, it's more like 2 miles. damn.
<map|work> that was amusing..in a sad way
<daftykins> map|work: ah yeah the ol' "hack"
<arsen> early facebook, map|work
<arsen> ;)
<map|work> just mess with the url and put diff numbers in lol
<daftykins> could've done a Mark Zuckerberg and made a comparison site
<arsen> in campus hot-or-not
<daftykins> ye \o/
<map|work> as to litecoin is it worth bothering with? a ) can it be used many places b) there's already btc - thing is..surely its winner takes it all..is there room for more than one crypto currency and umm BTC dropped a lot in value yest
<daftykins> not sure i believe the film one as saying it gridlocked the entire Uni's network :)
<arsen> all cryptocoins dropped a tonne today. LTC cant be used in many places no, its value is somewhat dependent on the future success of BTC.
<daftykins> d'aww
<map|work> you reckon? but surely as BT gets better or if it does..there's only room for 1 as people will use the currency thats supported by most places
<arsen> however i was too lazy to follow my instinct and mine bitcoin in the early days - i was too busy gaming.
<map|work> chicken and egg scenario retailers dont use it as its not popular enough..users dont use it as not enough retailers support
<ali1234> LTC value is entirely supported by people daytrading it against bitcoin
<map|work> ah
<ali1234> same goes for all the other altcoins
<map|work> hows that work?
<arsen> i worked out if i'd of spent a few weeks doing it, as is likely with my general "i get bored with everything pretty quickly" i'd still be sitting on a few hundred grand of bitcoins.
<ali1234> you get some bitcoin and some litecoin, and you put it in an exchange, and you buy low and sell high
<map|work> yea but whats the ltc usd for them
<arsen> well at the point they have a value significant enough, exchanges will start to offer trade against usd/gbp/eur etc.
<ali1234> the btc/ltc rate has not changed significantly
<map|work> aha
<map|work> how much easier is it to mine ltc than btc
<ali1234> it was about 0.038 before the crash, now it is 0.034
<arsen> massively, map|work.
<ali1234> it's about 0.035 times harder
<arsen> whereby BTC mining is now impossible without dedicated large ASICs, you can do LTC with high end GPU's and profit.
<ali1234> BTC mining is not impossible
<map|work> also dunno if anyone knows but im using cgiirc and i edited mozilla.pm to change the title on the page it loads..using it from my server over ssl - but they record history downstairs and the page title would show up..and once i get to irc.cgi it shows cgil;irc #channame
<map|work> does anyone know which file i need to edit to stop it
<arsen> no its not, ali1234 - but its not gona make you much money unless you do it with an ASIC, or array of them - unless you have lots of free power.
<ali1234> true
<ali1234> the same is true of litecoin however
<arsen> a reasonable high end AMD GPU theoretically will cover its cost in ~30 days.
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> no it won't
<ali1234> only if you get free electricity is that true
<ali1234> and in that case it would pay for itself with bitcoin in a similar timeframe
<ali1234> those GPUs cost about $2 a day to run
<arsen> as an example, my electricity cost for one GPU is ~Â£1,.60 a day, and it was returning almost Â£15
<arsen> though this is no longer true, as the price has changed dramatically.
<ali1234> yeah..... in 2011 maybe
<arsen> yesterday, ali1234.
<ali1234> no, you did not mine $15 worth of litecoin in one day with one GPU
<daftykins> i saw a pound symbol personally
<arsen> frankly the price of LTC is fluctuating so much at the moment (and currently in a never ending spiral), it doesnt matter which currency symbol i use.
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> Zimbabwe dorrah
<arsen> i actually mined about $41 worth, in just over one day, ali1234.
<arsen> according to my wallet. but that LTC is no longer worth $41.
<ali1234> that would require you getting about 2MH/s
<arsen> also pulled in around $25 worth of primecoin.
<arsen> almost, ali1234.
<ali1234> that's over double what the best GPU can do
<arsen> im getting about 1600 in one rig, plus a few 4700k's.
<arsen> erk, 4770k's
<ali1234> a rig typically means several GPUs, usually 4, 6, or 8, and is going to cost you well over $10/day to run
<arsen> i'm not claiming miracles, that USD value only existed when LTC was at $41, its now only just above half that.
<ali1234> yeah, as i said, the btc/ltc rate has barely changed
<ali1234> the best way to mine currently is to jump on every new altcoin as soon as it is released, then dump them as soon as they list on any excahnge
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-08
<arsen> probably true!
<ali1234> i just found 30 PPC i forgot about in a pool
<directhex> i miss my BTC
<directhex> i regret selling when i did
<directhex> stupid commodities
<arsen> :)
<arsen> ive no real interest in the money return initially, i'm doing it for fun and interest, plus the long term return if there is any.
<MartijnVdS> http://www.addedbytes.com/blog/if-php-were-british/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> morning mate
<mapps> morning MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o
<SuperEngineer> \o folks
<SuperEngineer> sun's shining...
<SuperEngineer> ..time to prepare a salad
<arc__> Hello
<popey> hi
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<arc__> Nearly afternoon
<brobostigon> an hour.
<arc__> Yea
<SuperEngineer> Just seen this on twitter - made I laugh   https://twitter.com/Rickontour/status/409638764898963456/photo/1
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: well, at least it's standard 8-)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
<bigcalm> Bug fixing at the weekend. I "love" my life
<bigcalm> But now, time for magic pig sandwitches!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't make bugs :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: you sound horribly like my clients
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I know, I write software for a living too ;)
<brobostigon> cm11-m1 is working well on my nexus7, noticed another bug, the keyboard crashes and wont restart unless you force it.
<MartijnVdS> 8-)  http://i.imgur.com/Og1NB7Z.gif
<SuperEngineer> & while you're all at imgur, you might find "45 of the most powerful images of 2013" http://imgur.com/a/rFmNh interesting
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: saw it on reddit earlier today
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - certainly attention grabbing
<MartijnVdS> fun, these also work with voice search on the web: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2524501
<bigcalm> S voice is no fun
<MartijnVdS> ask it for "tea, earl grey, hot"
<bigcalm> No joy
<MartijnVdS> "up up down down left right left right" ?
<MartijnVdS> "what's the best smartphone"
<MartijnVdS> "when am I"
<MartijnVdS> "lions and tigers and bears"
<MartijnVdS> "how can entropy be reversed" (see: http://filer.case.edu/dts8/thelastq.htm)
<SuperEngineer> q/ re backups & file systems...
<SuperEngineer> last night I deliberately erased external backup disc & started again from scratch...
<SuperEngineer> I did a straight partition copy for whole of Ubuntu partion - created another partition as btrfs
<penguin42> ok
<SuperEngineer> the partition being backed up [on a per folder basis via rsync] is ext4...
<SuperEngineer> should restores be ok with that? [ext4 -> btrfs -> ext4 on restore if needed]
<penguin42> yes
 * SuperEngineer crosses fingies
<SuperEngineer> thanks Pendulum
<penguin42> using something like rsync shouldn't care what the underlying FS is
<SuperEngineer> whoops!
<SuperEngineer> thanks penguin42
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You might want to try btrfs snapshots as well
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: que?
<SuperEngineer> on an external disc?
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You can tell btrfs to snapshot the entire filesystem and then carry on, then at some point later you can look at the old versions at the point of the snapshot
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: It helps if you're doing regular backups but don't notice you deleted something until after you're next backup
<SuperEngineer> ah ha, I knew btrfs could do that but wondered about the viabilty of the theory of using that for an external drive which is only plugged at backup time
<penguin42> no, I don't think that makes any difference
<SuperEngineer> cool :)
<penguin42> there are some other scripts that work like Apple time machine- they use a set of links to keep multiple old versions visible on any unix like filesystem
 * penguin42 doesn't know the names of that one
<SuperEngineer> lol
<dwatkins> Magnets! http://sugru.com/magnet-kit
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ooh!
<dwatkins> Yeah MartijnVdS - I signed up; sadly it's not going to be available before christmas.
<dwatkins> Gives me some ideas for the Sugru I already have, though.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I've used sugru with neodymium magnets before
<MartijnVdS> it's great :)
<penguin42> so that's just a pack of strong magnets?
<MartijnVdS> yeah, you can get cheap ones on ebay
<dwatkins> penguin42: no, it cmes with Sugru as well, and the magnets are carefully chosen and have dimples in them so you can be sure to get them the right way around
<MartijnVdS> just 1cm or 2cm discs (like several 5p coins stacked)
<dwatkins> and they shouldn't move too easily because of the dimples
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: those are useful ideas :)
<penguin42> ah
<dwatkins> I have Sugru on my laptop power supply to stop the cable getting worn out, and on the back of my Nintendo DS to hold it more easily.
<dwatkins> oh, and on the corners of my bed so I don't scratch myself as I walk past
<MartijnVdS> I have it on my old laptop, the original rubber bits fell off
<MartijnVdS> and on my teapot, so it doesn't scratch my table
<gordonjcp> I haven't played with sugru yet at all
<dwatkins> It's like playdough for adults and chilrden ;)
<dwatkins> (don't eat it)
<MartijnVdS> Just upgraded the zippers on my bag, so it's easier to recognise on the baggage caroussel ;)
<dwatkins> I have a big Lego nametag on my bag...
<dwatkins> <--- big kid
<MartijnVdS> OK... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVCzdpagXOQ
<dwatkins> haha
<dwatkins> Next up: Rebecca makes a song about being immensely hungover on Sunday
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: probably
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: have you seen the reaction video, where she re-watches "Friday"?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5nfV3S7sqI
<dwatkins> I was just about to watch that...
<dwatkins> Why do people say "What's up?" on youtube videos?
<MartijnVdS> people are strange.
<dwatkins> at least she doesn't take herself too seriously - that probably comes later, with the entourage and the fame
<MartijnVdS> Aww yeah! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGRQKKaox5Q
<MartijnVdS> "United State of Pop 2013"
<dwatkins> "DJ Earworm" just sounds like an infection.
<dwatkins> Wait, what happened to the DeLorean....?
<dwatkins> Seeing that teddy bear with the lit-up eyes reminds me of this rather awesome kickstarter... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2117525416/supertoy-worlds-first-natural-talking-teddy-bear
<dwatkins> I'm expecting to get my bear early next year.
<MartijnVdS> so.. next month?
<dwatkins> maybe, they had some problems with the choice of microphone, so couldn't delivery by christmas
<dwatkins> they were very apologetic, but said they wanted to make a good quality product
<dwatkins> "Sorry I could not make Christmas. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done. To let you down, I am so sorry. I will deliver you a toy I am proud of in the New Year. "
<dwatkins> https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/assets/001/394/389/6c6c710089281c5d3513bbcfe4aeea30_h264_high.mp4 is the latest video from their update
<ted> hi :)
<ali1234> yeeeeaaaaah...
<SuperEngineer> this little beauty arrived a couple of weeks back http://imagebin.org/281181,  Having fed it with a few sugar grains in water it wes able to fly again
<SuperEngineer> I opened kichen window this morning to let it escape... it did, it got cold, it flew back in and has now settled in bathroom
<SuperEngineer> ho hum - to feed or not to feed?
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: I've got one of those
<gordonjcp> I stick some sugar grains in water in a dish every few days and it seems to keep out of the cat's way
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp: helpful - thanks
<gordonjcp> not that Suzie seems to be bothered by it
<gordonjcp> if Estelle was still around she would literally be climbing the curtains to get it
<gordonjcp> https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/61948_10151358251713799_2058733252_n.jpg <- ate bugs
<gordonjcp> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p206x206/1468_10151716780888799_664239353_n.jpg <- does not eat bugs
<shauno> hah, I used to have a p4 optiplex like that.  very efficient cat warmer
<gordonjcp> https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/560168_10151624277338799_1173501888_n.jpg
<SuperEngineer> :)
<dwatkins> oops http://www.dailydot.com/lol/4chan-unlock-xbox-prank-brick/
<penguin42> haha
<mapps> evening
<mapps> lol dwatkins
<foobarry> thats like a more lethal version of the unix fork bomb
<foobarry> there will always be those type of teenagers...and some who act like teenagers...
<mapps> ÃÃ»
<daubers> Afternoon
<dwatkins> trolls will be trolls
<penguin42> odd they left something in the GUI that could apparently brick it without doing anything too odd
<foobarry> it probably has a warning when you choose dev mode though
<foobarry> "HERE BE DRAGONS"
<shauno> I wonder how bricked they actually are.  or if you could grab one, wipe the hdd and be a happy chappy
<penguin42> shauno: I suspect they're trying to connect to a dev system?
<daftykins> wowzer, just spent 3.5hrs+ insulating the central heating pipes that run outside under my decking D:
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c8ty2ci247x35mh/K98JW6OBlt
<penguin42> daftykins: But can you measure the savings?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> who knows
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/qc4pehrfrro5x4o/decking.jpg
<daftykins> here's what was there before
<daftykins> didn't cost me much :>
<daftykins> just plenty of time
<penguin42> AlanBell: http://www.itechpost.com/articles/2346/20120604/robots-now-debone-chicken-surgical-precision.htm
<bigcalm> Oh goodness. Variety just changed the background to what looks to be a default Ubuntu one. It's horrid
<bigcalm> Oh, no. My bad. It's from http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1908939 - still horrid
<Myrtti> apparently there's something Sherlocky in BBC one once Strictly is over
<DJones> Must be an advert then, my wife is just waiting for The Paradise to start
<Myrtti> yes
<Myrtti> probably
<DJones> yep, on now
<Myrtti> Ohhh my gawd
<DJones> Was that Nigel Planer?
<arsen> hah, i like that bigcalm  :<
<foobarry> watching the "how videogames changedthe world" and trying to guess which game will come next
<foobarry> succeeding mostly
<foobarry> just seena death scene from mortal kombat 9....what  the heck
<sebsebseb> hi
<daftykins> o hi
<sebsebseb> daftykins: hi
<popey> hello sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: hi
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-01
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning all
<SuperMatt> long weekend was long
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> anything fun happen to anyone this weekend?
<MooDoo> I won [daughter] a xbox one
<SuperMatt> I would have said an xbox one, but well done
<MooDoo> yeah well it's early
<MooDoo> but thanks for making me feel thick first think in the morning :p
<SuperMatt> you're welcome \o/
<SuperMatt> how'd you win it?
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: school christmas fayre raffle, my daughters ticket won it
<SuperMatt> nice work
<SuperMatt> I'm totes jelly
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: you're what?
<popey> morning slackers
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: totally jealous
<SuperMatt> totes jelly
<SuperMatt> are you not down with the kids?
<foobarry> wow, our school chrimbo raffle is usually something donated like a bath soap set
<popey> 09:17:45 [freenode] -!- There is no such nick daviey
<popey> â¹
<MooDoo> foobarry: i was very lucky
<foobarry> now you have to buy a big telly to go with it?
<MooDoo> foobarry: lol i wish, i have to persuade the other to let me spend Â£50 on a game this close to christmas
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Day With(out) Art Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> might be of interest to cacti users intent to retire cacti
<foobarry> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-October/203695.html
<popey> (from fedora only, surely)?
<diddledan> there's no attempt from fedora to communicate their concerns via the cacti mailing list
<popey> maybe they did so via irc
<popey> or direct mail
<popey> those CVE's are all patched in ubuntu (and I assume debian)
<popey> I can see the individual patches in the dpkg-source: info: applying CVE-2014-5261_shell_metachar.patch
<popey> dpkg-source: info: applying CVE-2014-5262_SQL_injection.patch
<popey> etc
<foobarry> its a community repo, so effectively they are saying they don't have time to patch these things downstream
<foobarry> wonder why upstream aren't fixing the CVEs
<shauno> from the mail, they are, they just haven't trickled down to a release  (eg, http://svn.cacti.net/viewvc?view=rev&revision=7454 is 5 months old)
<shauno> (which is still bad form.  it's a bit awkward for your latest release to still have 5-month-old vulns in it)
<popey> looks like debian developer contributes upstream
<popey> http://bugs.cacti.net/view.php?id=2383
<popey> paulgevers is the guy who packages it for debian
<popey> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/c/cacti/cacti_0.8.8a+dfsg-5+deb7u4_changelog
<popey> so, fedora problem.
<MooDoo> limb is the owner for fedora
<MooDoo> Jon Ciesla
<MooDoo> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/cacti/
<davmor2> JamesTait: why would you go a day without art, do you have no soul ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, if the artist died (from what I gather, it's another name for AIDS awareness day).
<MooDoo> high availability is all well and good, but if you're router plays up, it's no good, starting to think this virgin superhubs are a bit rubbish
<diddledan> MooDoo, virgin superhubs do HA?
<zmoylan-pi> isp hubs rubbish... i'm shocked :-)
<MooDoo> diddledan: no but my two ubuntu servers do, just tested it this morning and for some reason when the server came back up, it was't routing correctly, rebooted the superhub and it worked.
<MooDoo> diddledan: been playing with haproxy and keepalived
<popey> My mum phoned virgin to get caller id added, the sales droid upsold her a more expensive tivo box â¹
<popey> I phoned to complain and make them put back the old box
<zmoylan-pi> how did that go?
<diddledan> ouch
<popey> they said they can't, that the old boxes are being destroyed
<zmoylan-pi> nice
<popey> I pointed out that she was on a mates rates deal
<popey> and that they have just undone that, which they shouldn't have done
<popey> they're phoning me back â»
<foobarry> tell them you are recording the call for monitoring and training purposes
<zmoylan-pi> a service of professional hagglers to listen in and guide you when dealing with these companies... :-)
<awilkins> Superhubs are rubbish for uptime
<awilkins> I put mine in "Modem" mode
<MooDoo> awilkins: yeah i'm tempted to do that with mine and then use my dd-wrt router
<awilkins> And use my old router with OpenWRT on it
<awilkins> It has ancient slow wifi
<shauno> I'm not convinced you have to tell them they're being recorded.  "this call may be recorded for .." sounds like permission to me :)
<foobarry> you don't have to tell them
<foobarry> if one person knows on the call then its fine
<foobarry> but they hung up on me when i told them before ;)
<popey> wat
<foobarry> when i didn't tell them, i recorded the call and they told me linux is not supported so i should use a different ISP
<zmoylan-pi> linux... is not supported... do they know how the internet works at all?
<foobarry> the real reason was that my line was crap and in fact had no pcs connected, but only ping turned on, on the router, and still droppping 40% packets
<foobarry> was just some indian dude with no authority to make those statements
<foobarry> but i took his advice and haven't used them for ~10yrs
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully when you cancelled you mentioned that their tech support told you to cancel
<foobarry> when i cancelled i said i'm giving u my 1 month notice
<foobarry> forgot to record the call :(
<foobarry> because they charged me on the day i stopped with "no record" of the cancellation notice
<foobarry> then they took the money from me
<foobarry> and refused to give it back
<awilkins> I hate that
<foobarry> so even if their ISP was great (in N london , it is not)
<foobarry> then they owe me Â£Â£
<awilkins> They rightly reckon that most people value their time more than a month's subs
<MooDoo> pah cyber monday deals on laptop memory are rubbish :(
<diddledan> any cybermonday deals on desktop RAMS?
<foobarry> what is cyber monday
<diddledan> foobarry, it's the monday following black friday
<foobarry> wasn't black friday also cyber friday?
<shauno> a scary attempt to make black friday just keep on going
<awilkins> Cyber Monday refers to the official stats that Cyber Monday is the most-shopped day online
<awilkins> Or possibly just the official propaganda
<awilkins> But yes, it's a "holiday season" sales thing
<awilkins> Grr. Yanks and their "holiday season"
<awilkins> We get a few days. They get a "season" where everything stops.
<awilkins> I put in a request for access to our main project tracker over three weeks ago. STILL not got access to it.
<awilkins> I can install a Linux VM, put Redmine on it, integrate it with LDAP, and have a working tracker up in less than 2 hours.
<awilkins> Why it takes more than 2 *minutes* to add an account to an existing one, I have no idea.
<awilkins> (well, I do. It's stupid bureaucracy)
<bashrc> I might be in the market for a tablet at some time in the near future. The wifi on my existing one seems to have died and can't be revided even after a reset to factory defaults
<popey> Virgin also ripped out the router I had put in, and replaced it with a super hub
<popey> Removing my port forwarding in the process
<MooDoo> popey: starting to agree with all the reports that the superhub is a bit pants.
<popey> The engineer also lied, saying that the programmes which my mum had recorded would still be on her new set top box
<popey> yeah, mine is in modem only mode
<foobarry> recently the phone line which snakes along the brickwork outside my house completely degraded. had a nice man come to replace it
<awilkins> I contract for 60Mbit/s
<awilkins> I get about 20-30
<awilkins> THe only reason I can't be bothered to complain is that this is generally more than enough anyway
<awilkins> If you can't wait a couple of hours for an A-rated game download, you have patience issues
<shauno> hours?
<shauno> this is why I like having a janky old console.  insert game.  play.
<awilkins> I like my PC for games
<zmoylan-pi> i've never waited long for rogue to download.  not even the first time when i used a 300baud modem :-)
<awilkins> Not least because there is one TV in the house and the (ex)wife monopolised it in the evenings for horrible reality TV shows.
<awilkins> I have a Wii
<awilkins> It mostly gets used as a Netflix client these days
<kvarley-work> On the Ubuntu "Connect to server" dialog on the file manager is there a way to escape the @ symbol? My username provided by HeartInternet has an @ symbol in it
<foobarry> \@
<MooDoo> kvarley-work: what's that for ftp?
<kvarley-work> MooDoo: Yeah :)
<MooDoo> kvarley-work: can't you install filezilla and use that?
<foobarry> try \ first
<kvarley-work> MooDoo: FileZilla crashes on me all the time as of Ubuntu 14.10
<MooDoo> kvarley-work: or even better change the password lol :D ps is your FTP unlocked?
<kvarley-work> MooDoo: Yes FTP unlocked. It's not the password it's the username haha
<kvarley-work> Which you can't change ....
<foobarry> or use unicode in hex
<MooDoo> usernames are usually domain names unless you're using additional ftp accounts.
<MooDoo> ah well ignore more :D
<shauno> I have one where the username is an email address.  really annoying.  it means you're ftp to user@host@host
<foobarry> try %40 also
<MooDoo> yeah very strange, usernames don't usually have @ in them unless it's additional users, unless they changed it :(
 * foobarry wonders if he is on silent
<MooDoo> no we can see you and he'll try your suggestions i'm sure :p
<awilkins> usernames have @ in them when they are Active Directory / Kerberos usernames
 * MooDoo did leave heart support 4 months ago after all :D
<awilkins> But you can often use   domain\user rather than user@domain
 * awilkins reads up
<awilkins> Ignore me
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> it's the 1st of Dec, international ignore me day :)
<kvarley-work> Thanks foobarry it accepts the username but not just doesn't show me files and keeps prompting for password lol
<kvarley-work> I give up
<kvarley-work> Filezilla is a right nightmare at the moment. always crashing. Will get gftp out instead. Cheers anyway
<MooDoo> kvarley-work: reset the password...or make sure you're using the right one :)
<MooDoo> you can do it easy enough from extend
<MooDoo> Guinness rich beef chilli crisps, that's a new one.
<kvarley-work> It's not the password that's wrong, I'm copying and pasting it from extend and there's no whitespace either side before you say :)
<MooDoo> but i've seen the password not being recognised and a password change fixes it
<shauno> this is relevant to my interests!  where would I purchase/purloin such a flavour?
<MooDoo> shauno: i got them from the machine at work, so not sure shops wise, they are rather nice...unfortunatly no actuall guinness is involved.
<shauno> hm.  I love the categories some things end up in on amazon.  it has these crisps filed under 'kitchen roll, toilet roll & tissues'
<zmoylan-pi> as people who bought there also bought...
<foobarry> why are they building a Â£15bn  tunnel under stonehenge when all they need is sight screens?
<zmoylan-pi> they'll anger the druids
<diddledan> foobarry, they actually gave it the go-ahead?
<diplo> I'd rather they spent Â£15 billion fixing all the current roads
<diddledan> foobarry, the 15bn is for all road schemes in england which includes the stonehenge thing
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30269231
<shauno> literally under stonehenge?  isn't there like .. archeology down there?
<diddledan> only 2bn is for the stonehenge and surrounding area
<zmoylan-pi> the tunnel should be well below any human created architecture
<diddledan> that 2bn also includes provision for ensuring that the a303 is entirely dual-carriageway
<diddledan> the a303 at warminster is the summer hellhole due to being single-lane
<diplo> It's alright :)
<diplo> Doesn;t bother me that much, I really rather they fixed more of the roads around here than the 303
<ali1234> so you know stonehenge right?
<ali1234> why is it in such good condition?
<bashrc> I don't think it was in a good condition until interest in ancients started to revive in the 19th century
<ali1234> just the fact it's not under several feet of earth seems surprising to me
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the interest in the ancients started with the enlightment in 1700s.  i think that's when they unearthed newgrange in ireland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange
<zmoylan-pi> 1699 so 17th century.  just
<Azelphur> PSA folks, Crucial M4 Refurbed SSDs direct from Crucial, Â£22.31 for 128GB, Â£37.43 for 256GB.
<Azelphur> cheap things are cheap :)
<popey> nic!
<zmoylan-pi> just when you use the word cheap it makes me wonder if they are 'cheap' :-)
 * popey considers putting 4 of them in a desktop â»
<Azelphur> here's the direct link, http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/store-ssd-factory-recertified?cm_mmc=affiliation-_-null-_-null-_-null
<Azelphur> also PSA for the PSA, 2% off if you use quidco
<popey> that link fails to load for me
<Azelphur> popey: try http://www.hotukdeals.com/visit?m=130&q=2069195
<shauno> I can't get eu.crucial.com to load at all :(
<popey> that works now, ta
<Azelphur> little 128 will be brilliant for my mircoserevr.
<Azelphur> microserver*
<diplo> Worked for me
<popey> yeah, i have 120 in my microserver, want to go to 256
<Azelphur> popey: why the upgrade? are you using it as more than a boot drive?
<popey> yeah, boot and squid and other bits that need to be quick
<Azelphur> I see
<popey> their site is still dead slow
<ali1234> 128 would make a good boot drive for NAS/mythtv server
<Azelphur> yea must be getting hammered
<ali1234> then add 4x4TB
<popey> yeah
<Azelphur> ali1234: that's my setup in a nutshell
<ali1234> i want to do this, but a) can't find a distro thats good at being a NAS and also good at mythtv, and b) can't figure out how to make the whole thing go in a cupboard without overheating
<ali1234> i also want to put it in a proper NAS case with front removable drive bays
<ali1234> and LCD status panel
<Azelphur> ali1234: I don't use mine as a front end, I use the microserver as a server and a chromebox with xbmc as the front end
<Azelphur> microserver (can) have all of the above :)
<ali1234> yes me too
<ali1234> myth frontend is horrible
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> i use mythbuntu, but ubuntu is not very good on a NAS
<Azelphur> I use Ubuntu server on mine - works fine?
<ali1234> oh really. where is the admin web interface for samba?
<Azelphur> there isn't one, no idea why I'd want one
<ali1234> exactly. that#s why ubuntu sucks for NAS
<Azelphur> It's samba, you turn it on...and then you don't touch it again
<Azelphur> xD
<Azelphur> hmm that's odd, when I try to pay crucial by paypal they try and charge me Â£47
<Azelphur> instead of Â£22
<ali1234> it's samba: you turn it on, it doesn't work, you spend weeks fiddling around with smb.conf and nbd.conf, you eventually get it working and then pray you never need to reconfigure it ever again
<Azelphur> took me 10 minutes, I guess I'm lucky
<popey> ditto
<popey> i have it on my home server so windows boxen and xbmc can see it
<popey> never touched it since
<popey> and done two dist-upgrades
<Azelphur> I've done like 4 dist-upgrades on mine
<ali1234> yeah i don't believe it actually works
<ali1234> what do you do when you want to add a new user and share?
<Azelphur> I don't, I just have one read only anonymous share for samba
<ali1234> lol
<Azelphur> for RW I use NFS (it's faster anyway)
<popey> same here
<Azelphur> samba is literally only there so that passing Microsoft peasants can pilfer my movie collection.
<ali1234> so you don't have to bother with users, permissions, ACLs, domain stuff, multiple shares
 * popey gives up buying a crucial ssd
<ali1234> this simple configuration is easy to achieve
<Azelphur> popey: just as you say that "Thank you for your order Your web order was placed on: December 1. 2014"
<ali1234> getting samba to work the way it does in a consumer NAS is hard
<Azelphur> ali1234: what about webmin?
<ali1234> not supported in ubuntu?
<ali1234> i know there are solutions out there, like freenas
<ali1234> the trouble is, those aren't good at running myth-backend
<diplo> Speak to Freenas guys? IX systems do most of the work.. can't hurt asking the question
<ali1234> people have done it, but it's BSD, and you have to build everything from source, and fiddle with drivers
<ali1234> and i can't be bothered with that these days
<diplo> Me either, I do the same as popey and Azelphur though, just easier
<diplo> Ubuntu Server, samba share and a revo with XBMC up front
<Myrtti> https://forums.openvpn.net/topic17625.html
<m0nkey_> Thanks Myrtti, now I wait for my router firmware to be updated. :-/
<Myrtti> :-/
<Myrtti> you're the second person 'thanking' me
<m0nkey_> lol
<Myrtti> "don't kill the messenger"
<MooDoo> Myrtti: thanks :D   issue doesn't affect me, just saying thanks :D
<m0nkey_> this makes me want to go back to building my own router
<m0nkey_> may do that when I get around to building a new pc after christmas
<Myrtti> O
<Myrtti> I've got Arduino stuff waiting for assembly
<m0nkey_> Not sure what OS I'm going to use.. probably openbsd if anything for a router/firewall
<Azelphur> well this is charming
<Azelphur> DPD decided to delay my package, and they hang up when I call them
<Azelphur> be here, I am not going to be \o/
<MooDoo> lucky i work next to them, so if i want my stuff i go get it
<foobarry> ali1234: have you seen teh synology OS builds for the microservers?
<Azelphur> MooDoo: go beat them with newspaper for me :P
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> do they sell newspapers with staples... :-)
<davmor2> MooDoo, Azelphur, zmoylan-pi: no but I bet we could create a Bedrock Bugle edition just for them
<diddledan> 10 minutes till hacksummit.org kicks off
<diddledan> think I might wander off and get some sweeties
<bujji> i have an issue in ubuntu....system problem detected.
<bujji> hello popey..
<daftykins> lol.
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<popey> hello bujji
<bujji> hi daftykins )
<daftykins> remember there's always #ubuntu-in
<bujji> in ??
<popey> bujji: if you look in /var/crash you may find a crash file
<popey> which will indicate what the system problem was
<popey> or you can close the dialog box and ignore it
<bujji> okey
<daftykins> bujji: yeah ubuntu india!
<bujji> daftykins: okey
<popey> bah, my firefox phone just rang, picked it up and now it won't stop ringing
<daftykins> it's ringing like it's on fiiiiire! ...fox.
<bujji> lol
<bujji> I found three file i /var/crash popey
<bujji> in*
<bujji> files*
<daftykins> read them for clues
<bujji> _usr_lib_chromium-browser_chromium-browser.1000.crash
<popey> so that's your browser which crashed at some point
<bujji> susres.2014-11-30_08:22:08.347006.crash
<bujji> _usr_lib_chromium-browser_chromium-browser.1000.uploaded
<popey> so the crash report has been sent, that's good
<bujji> yes
<popey> Do you have a question?
<bujji> How can i resolve  this problem.
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It7107ELQvY
<popey> i sang that in a karaoke bar in copenhagen in ~1996
<popey> bujji: hard to say, we don't yet know why your chromium crashed
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPsqaTz0PSU
<bujji> a popup window opened like do ou want to report te problem now.
<popey> haha ali1234
<popey> bujji: right, report the problem if you want to.
<bujji> sorry Ubuntu 13.04 experienced an internal error
<daftykins> !raring
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) was the 18th release of Ubuntu. Support ended on January 27, 2014. See !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/raring
<daftykins> that distro version is nearly one year dead
<daftykins> typo of 14.04 perhaps?
<bujji> popey: above showing after report problem
<bujji> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD5urXFG6CQ
<popey> i wouldn't do that, but you can I guess
<bujji> popey: May i do this according to the video.
<bujji> daftykins:Are you there?
<daftykins> i am but i don't use desktop ubuntu
<daftykins> so i'm about as useful as a chocolate teapot
<ali1234> why don't you use ubuntu desktop?
<daftykins> because reasons
<ali1234> what do you use instead?
<daftykins> the OS i'm primarily paid to support :)
<daftykins> it seems like such a nightmare browsing the launchpad pages to try and get .deb's to give someone without internet access, is there a better way?
<popey> packages.ubuntu.com
<daftykins> how handy ^_^ ty sir
<daftykins> popey: i was getting trolled last night by this w23rdst guy :(
<daftykins> over in #ubuntu
<popey> "yay"
<daftykins> hmm seems to be playing along for now, ho-hum
<daftykins> there are never ops around when you need one ;_;
<davmor2> daftykins: do you ever wonder if they are around and just enjoy watching you suffer?
<daftykins> oh i know they do
<daftykins> i ignored it last night but when i'm trying to help someone i just want to stab them repeatedly
<foobarry> anyone with a combi boiler able to tell me what their hot water temp is set to pls?
<foobarry> the setting on the boiler
<ali1234> that's a rather odd request
<daftykins> about 45 deg C foobarry
<foobarry> my rather new boiler is misheaving
<foobarry> sometimes only goes lukewarm
<foobarry> reboot boiler and it works ok
<foobarry> or even tweak the settings and it works ok
<foobarry> thanks daftykins
<daftykins> np :)
<foobarry> might it rather higher
<foobarry> mine
<foobarry> is
<foobarry> ugh
<foobarry> everything is flaky in my house atm: dishwasher, shower, boiler, rads, washing machine, mouse
<popey> pattern ...
<foobarry> water?
<foobarry> or mouse eating stuff
<daftykins> :( that'd be really annoying
<ali1234> that could be a problem with the pressure rather than the temperature
<foobarry> it was fine until the boiler was rebooted whil ethe elctrician did stuff elsewhere
<foobarry> pressure is good
<daftykins> i dropped 2 grand on a new boiler last year, best thing i've done really
<foobarry> so did i
<daftykins> my old one had me actually fearing showers
<foobarry> :(
<daftykins> never had a shower direct from the boiler before, only electric ones
<foobarry> its lovely
<foobarry> except for getting out
<foobarry> at this time of year
<foobarry> been messing with vagrant + ELK again today. devops stuff is strssful
<daftykins> :D
<foobarry> its all so slapdash and mysterious
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1298297 is annoying
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1298297 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Shutting lid on laptop locks the computer, even though action is set to none" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<foobarry> npm install , gem install etc
<foobarry> so much taken away from sysadmins
<foobarry> given to devs who screw stuff up
<popey> it's package managers all the way down
<foobarry> its a nightmare
<foobarry> apt is supposed to rule them all
<ali1234> why is that bug against lightdm?
<popey> what should it be against?
<ali1234> whatever locks the display?
<ali1234> i thought unity got a built in lock screen now
<ali1234> unity should be disabling lightdm lock screen if it is active, that's what light-locker does
<foobarry> need to go to coventry on wednesday for a conf. it really is the middle of nowhere
<foobarry> what rating was halo? 18? 15?
<foobarry> megabloks do halo sets. wonder how many 6 yr olds play halo
<daftykins> lol
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-02
<map> hi all..the night owls up?
<zmoylan-pi> twit twoo
<map> hey
<map> might watch the captive now
<map> also anyone ever used rosetta stone?
<zmoylan-pi> no but when my boss was on who wants to be a millionaire in ireland that was the focus of the question that stumped him
<map> oh
<zmoylan-pi> i was one of his phone a friends but he'd already used that option by then.
<map> how far did he get
<zmoylan-pi> around 16k iirc
<map> net die?
<daftykins> :D
<map> installing rosetta now
<map> wonder how useful it is
<map> i just have a feeling learning a language using a cpomputer app is gonna be hard
<map> wow american man lets himself get swallowed whole by anacaonda so he can film inside it
<map> might watch that on discovery chan
<daftykins> Steve Irwin 2.0
<map> sounds crazy to me;p
<map> sodding windows8
<map> cursor just suddenly sticks..for no reason
<daftykins> i'd consider hardware and drivers before OS
<map> its my new laptop though
<map> and the trackpad
<map> surely should all be fine
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> when you're typing perhaps?
<map> nah like say im browsing with ffox suddenly cursor stops and i have to basically close lid/reopen and its fine again
<map> or sometimes pulling up task manager fixes it
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i only ever clean install machines i get.
<map> hm i really dont like 8 tho
<map> using a 3rd party app to get the start button/menu back
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> classic shell doesn't quite work out
<daftykins> maybe go back to 7 :P
<map> ya been considering that
<daftykins> if it supports CSM / legacy boot it'd be easiest. you can EFI install 7 of course, but it needs some manual file placement
<map> CSM? hm
<daftykins> compatibility support module, it's how some refer to legacy boot provision
<map> phones4u stock being auctioned 600k items
<map> what does it mean 'buyers premium 20%' in relation to an auction?
<map> hm might bid on a few things
<zmoylan-pi> a desk phone for hipster value and irony :-)
<map> 20% premium means 20% fee?
<map> bah
<map> no homeland
<map> asnd no gotham
<map> stinky tv week
<zmoylan-pi> in 3 weeks it'll be wall to wall repeats of crimbo specials
<map> :(
<zmoylan-pi> though you might get pressies of new dvds or blu rays
<map> what time do you work?!
<map> quite late atm:)
<zmoylan-pi> of work atm, insomnia amongst other things
<zmoylan-pi> i get 4 hours sleep a day, usually at random times
<map> seems quite good
<map> have to say the words back and somehow it can tell if you say it right
<map> like the pronounciation
<map> neat eh
<MooDoo> morning all
<foobarry> mehhh
<SuperMatt> eeyyyyy!
<shauno> I'm going to agree with "meh".  so many conf calls, so little care.
<foobarry> had to spend the night in my sons bed last night while he slept in my bed
<foobarry> at least i got more sleep than previous night
<SuperMatt> at least you didn't have anyone hogging the covers!
<foobarry> twice a week some random IT guy comes to a little used server room near my office to make offerings to the novell gods
<foobarry> IT dept promised that novell would be long gone by now
<bashrc> I thought novell was no longer a thing
<foobarry> it shouldn't be
<foobarry> trouble is, they did what they were supposed to rather well
<bashrc> maybe there is a novell shrine, like they have in Japan
<foobarry> there is.
<bashrc> yes, novell had quite a long stretch
<foobarry> packets of viennese whirls have been found in there
<christel> ./3
<MooDoo> novell netware was ace :D
<awilkins> Viennese Whirls are a powerful incentive to the Gods of Novell
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04p5b36/hardtalk-mitchell-baker-executive-chairwoman-mozilla
<MooDoo> Hard Talk
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Giving Tuesday! :-D
 * davmor2 give JamesTait internet cake
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm not falling for that one, I know the cake is a lie. ;)
 * davmor2 gives JamesTait a lie
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<popey> yes
<MooDoo> any one tried to create an account on the linuxpadawan site?
<popey> the what?
<MooDoo> http://wiki.linuxpadawan.net/AboutUs
<popey> oh dear
<MooDoo> don't think it works properly
<ali1234> what happened to ubuntu-beginners and why "oh dear"?
<popey> yet another wiki
<MooDoo> ali1234: on't think he's a fan of wikis
<popey> Oh I am.
<MooDoo> but?
<popey> I have no idea what happened to ubuntu-beginners.
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam links to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2013-August/002541.html
<popey> which is 404
<ali1234> google has a cache. basically it died of natural causes
<popey> https://web.archive.org/web/20140817091812/https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2013-August/002541.html
<popey> so the people who were active have setup a new thing to be inactive in?
<ali1234> hmm that's interesting. i just searched wayback machine and it only had an archive of the 404 page
<ali1234> seems that way yes
<ali1234> but it doesn't reflect on ubuntu this way
<ali1234> so who cares?
<popey> hence "oh dear"
<ali1234> seems defeatist :(
<popey> Just seems an odd thing to do.
<ali1234> if you read some more of the thread it's not so simple
<foobarry> i'm all up for people sharing and helping
<ali1234> the scope of the new thing is rather different
<foobarry> the first sentence on the about page is not necessary
<ali1234> this really annoys me actually
<ali1234> you have to contribute the way we say, or go somewhere else
<ali1234> and even if you go somewhere else, we'll still bitch about how you're doing it wrong. constantly.
<foobarry> i don't think i've heard of ubuntu beginners
<foobarry> was it a community thing?
<popey> it was a gateway thing
<popey> get new people to the right places
<foobarry> kind of triage?
<popey> kinda
<foobarry> ubuntu-uk is good for that...for UK types
<ali1234> right. linuxpadawan seems to be more about mentoring absolute beginners, which is a totally different thing
<foobarry> i guess other chans are less well populated
<ali1234> ubuntu-uk is so ridiculously off-topic all the time, it barely deserves to be in the official namespace
<popey> Partly because the team such as it is is disfunctional.
<ali1234> not that i think being off-topic is bad
<popey> Some other loco teams have contributors (to translations, docs, bugs etc) who don't consider themselves part of the ubuntu "community" (whatever that is)
<ali1234> well, you know what i think about "community"
<popey> i do
<popey> hence quoting it
 * popey forages for food
<foobarry> off topic is nice if it is not cliquey. somehow this chan achieves that
<foobarry> http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/2/7318775/sinclairs-zx-spectrum-is-coming-back-as-a-retro-gaming-console
<foobarry> i knew someone that had a spectrum48 with a real keyboard - what was that?
<popey> Sam Coupe?
<popey> or the one Ben Heck made?
<popey> speaking of which http://www.indieretronews.com/2014/12/rock-boshers-dx-zx-spectrum-inspired.html#sthash.1MGU1sUP.uxfs
<foobarry> it was during the original zx days
<popey> http://tikipod.com/rockboshersdx/ direct link
<foobarry> so earlier than 1989
<ali1234> spectrum +2?
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum#mediaviewer/File:ZX_Spectrum_Plus2.jpeg
<foobarry> no, it was before any +2 or QL etc
<foobarry> it was a current ZX spectrum modded into a proper keyboard that looks abit like the sam coupe
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum#mediaviewer/File:ZX_Spectrum%2B.jpg
<ali1234> spectrum+, 48k
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> was not official sinclair product
<ali1234> dunno then
<foobarry> i also didn't dream it
<ali1234> russian spectrum clone maybe?
<ali1234> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODIyWDEwMDA=/z/EhMAAOxyVaBS8Ay~/$_35.JPG
<foobarry> heh i was just on http://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/82/Clones/Russia/Delta-S%20(Delta-C%20%3A%20%D0%94%D0%95%D0%9B%D0%AC%D0%A2%D0%90-%D0%A1)/
<foobarry> looks like there were a few clones out there
<ali1234> yes, lots
<ali1234> russians cloned all the home computers into the 16 bit era
<foobarry> http://kevman3d.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/tech-fixing-dktronics-keyboard-for-my.html
<foobarry> it had this keyboard
<foobarry> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=1000123
<zmoylan-pi> there was a sinclair pc with a keyboard like that but it was a full pc and not a spectum
<popey> \o/ soup
<popey> zmoylan-pi: PC 100
<popey> iirc
<popey> no, PC200
<zmoylan-pi> i think amstrad was trying to bring their pc business upmarket with sinclair name :-P
<popey> or not sully the amstrad name with a crappy pc â»
<zmoylan-pi> but if sinclair announced a pc/tablet/phone tomorrow i'd probably buy it just because he does some weird and wonderful stuff
<foobarry> amstrad/viglen are worst company ever
<foobarry> shame nobody at BBC realises that al sugar made money buying property in a rising property market
<bashrc> amtstrad was popular for a short time in the late 1980s and early 90s, and then flopped
<popey> Their PCW8256/9512 and their PC1512 and PC1640 were insanely popular
<bashrc> there was a time when it was hard to walk into an electricals shop without encountering a bunch of amstrad machines
<zmoylan-pi> they had a laptop that ran on d batteries, the alt laptops with a 16 bit isa expansion slot.  the nc100 and nc200 and first no keyboard pda.  some original ideas for the time
<zmoylan-pi> if implemented badly
<awilkins> I think that new SpectrumConsole is lame
<awilkins> "Plays all Spectrum games"... well, the hardware may run them, but you need more keyboard for many of them
<ali1234> i don't think spectrum games can hold up today, no matter how big of a hipster you are
<davmor2> popey: yay that was for it's wordprocessing package more than anything else iirc though right
<awilkins> How are you supposed to press the keys required to redefine the keys when they're not on that keypad?
<zmoylan-pi> i installed a zx spectrum emulator a few years ago on my brother pc.  his kids didn't get off the pc for about a month till my brother deleted it to get his pc back
<davmor2> awilkins: magic
<ali1234> they will probably patch all the games and then sell them to you for Â£1 each
<ali1234> from a download store
<awilkins> Some things like Head over Heels were impossible to play without a well-tuned keybinding as well
<ali1234> because everyone loves download stores right?
<awilkins> The press announcement says "free"
<awilkins> free downloads...
<awilkins> But maybe that means a free download store.
<zmoylan-pi> freemium?
<zmoylan-pi> naggy adverts
<awilkins> And not .TAP files
<awilkins> Â£100 though
<awilkins> That's just daft
<awilkins> How well does a Pi do at Spectrum emulation?
<awilkins> It's just a massive retro-cashin.
<zmoylan-pi> getting the rights to all the games will be fun.  i know amstrad tried with their em@iler gizmo
<awilkins> DO you have to download the games, define a keybinding, and then load it onto an SDCard?
<awilkins> WHo knows...
<ali1234> they probably haven't even thought it through
<zmoylan-pi> or they have a keyboard addon ready to kickstart :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<ali1234> raspberry pi can easily emulate a spectrum
<ali1234> any computer made in the last 15 years can do it easily
<zmoylan-pi> there are a few videos of people putting pi inside a dead zx spectrum case
<zmoylan-pi> and if you have patience you can use original rubber keyboard
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> Ug
<shauno> why would you want to?  I absolutely hated that keyboard
<foobarry> only for stress relief
<foobarry> the response was useless
<zmoylan-pi> you could use it as a coaster while browsing the web :-)
<zmoylan-pi> perfect keyboard for tweeting as your brain is constantly working out ways not to type long messages on it :-D
<awilkins> Most modern keyboards are still made from the same lousy technology
<awilkins> They just evolved it by making the rubber thinner and adding hard keycaps
<awilkins> Even a Model M is a membrane keyboard
<awilkins> But with a much better actuation mechanism
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> how are you today ?
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah good thanks, finally completed the christmas shopping
<knightwise> ah this is going to be easy for us this year :) we are gonna give the money to charity :)
<knightwise> so what was on your wishlist this year ?
<brobostigon> a new phone.
<popey> heh
<popey> same here :D
<popey> but almost certainly a different phone
<MooDoo> i just got an iphone
<brobostigon> i am thinking about the geekshone revl
<brobostigon> revolution*
<knightwise> Moodoo ? YOU  and IPHONE ?
<knightwise> I got my Oneplus One last week on thursday
<knightwise> pretty happy with it :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: yeah i wanted a change away from android/cyanogenmod
<knightwise> and .. do you like it ?
<MooDoo> love it
<MooDoo> just works
<knightwise> True ..
<knightwise> i have that experience with my macbooks in the house
<MooDoo> boss has just purchased a macbook pro can't fault it
<knightwise> I have the 15 inch pro as my main machine for the company
<knightwise> doing stuff on it like video's and stuff is just perfect
<Myrtti> I'm trying to fight the urge to open the XPS 13 parcel
 * brobostigon will stick with android, only viable option to go with my pebble.
<Myrtti> Mr. Father Christmas told me that he's not going to give it to me until Christmas Eve, the traditional gift exchange day in Finland
<Myrtti> I did tell him quite a few times that future Mrs. Father Christmas isn't impressed with this idea
<knightwise> Lol :)
<knightwise> hmmm.. i have a little bit of a chance of a lifetime here to buy a prosumer camcorder
<knightwise> ... little short for geek-cash .. so might look at selling off some gear first :)
<brobostigon> cm11 runs on it, thats goood, :)
 * popey wants to see an Ubuntu port on the OnePlus
<knightwise> popey that WOULD be cool
<knightwise> very curious about that
<popey> if I had one I'd certainly have a go
<knightwise> im looking forward to the ubuntu phone , curious how that is gonna turn out
<arsenip> anyone particularly familiar with kerberos/PAM
<popey> knightwise: me too! :D
<awilkins> Anyone know of (braces self) a Markdown parser for VBA ?
<awilkins> Getting sick of Word being incompatible with any sane document format
<awilkins> Had bright idea that if I was converting Markdown to Word, with Word, then that would be super-compatible.
<awilkins> Open Word, load macro, parse markdown, watch it write document, tart it up a bit, done
<aquarius> awilkins, in the old days you could do javascript in the windows scripting host; is that still doable for Word stuff, or are you obliged to use vba for that sort of thing now? (I ask because there are loads of JS markdown parsers)
<awilkins> aquarius, might be possible from outside Word
<awilkins> You can AFAIK manipulate Word objects from WSH
<awilkins> Used to do that kind of thing to make custom loaders that needed in-document macros to work
<adam__> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<adam__> i want to ask about android-x86 which is ubuntu based system
<adam__> I recently installed andoid-x86 in my hdd with the windows 7
<adam__> I used grub to choose which OS I wanted to boot
<adam__> but recently I upgraded to windows 8 and now the grub is not loading at startup
<adam__> would you please help me getting grub bak to work, I already googled but didn't find anything and I don't know anything about ubuntu
<adam__> ?
<awilkins> aquarius, Thanks for the idea, now all I have to do is find a JS markdown parser with a pluggable formatter
<awilkins> And rewrite that to do Word calls instead of spewing HTML
<awilkins> adam__, android-x86 is not an Ubuntu based system
<adam__> I think it is and it uses the same commands in terminal
<awilkins> It's Android, compiled for x86 processors ; the only similarity they share is that they are both based on Linux
<adam__> aha , then would you please help me fixing grub ?
<adam__> if you don't mind ^^
<awilkins> Hmm, even better : Python + pywin32
<Kris_> Hello....i had a question about error codes in Ubuntu
<Kris_> when i put "sudo apt-get update" into the sTerminal, it gives me "Err http://ppa.launchpad.net utopic/main Sources                                  404  Not Found Err http://ppa.launchpad.net utopic/main amd64 Packages                           404  Not Found Err http://ppa.launchpad.net utopic/main i386 Packages                            404  Not Found Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net utopic/main Translation-en_US                   
<Kris_> how can i fix this?
<Kris_> plz help.......
<celesteh> ok, i was just printing out the enormously long UK visa application and my printer started smoking.  I installed the Samsung Unified driver only minutes before. Could getting the wrong driver cause my printer to catch fire?
<celesteh> Or is this the fault of the UK Home Office?
<diddledan> o_O http://www.geek.com/microsoft/microsoft-futuristic-cybercrime-computer-lets-you-see-and-hear-botnet-activity-1610635/
<diddledan> err
<davmor2> diddledan: maybe it would be better to block it maybe ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, celestah?
<diddledan> or however he spelt it
<davmor2> just looking at the title of the link you posted :)
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> http://nodatime.org/1.3.x/userguide/trivia.html
<ali1234> is there an opengl debugger packaged?
<ali1234> i ported some old code to VBOs and it runs really smooth now, except every fourth time i run it, it locks up the computer
<Safiyyah> Hi all.  My computer boots up and logs in but about 2 minutes later it freezes.  Responds to nothibg.  All applications crash. This started happening about 90 minutes after am upgrade
<Safiyyah> I am running Xubuntu
<diddledan> ali1234, I can't help with your problem, but I'm curious what VBOs are?
<ali1234> vertex buffer objects
<diddledan> aah
<ali1234> and it's happening again
<diddledan> odd that it only occurs every fourth run
<ali1234> approximately*
<ali1234> what happens is you run it a few times and it's fine
<diddledan> suggests there's an interaction with either something else on the system or with hardware
<ali1234> then you run it and it renders 1 frame every 10 seconds
<ali1234> and then every window starts taking 10 seconds to redraw
<ali1234> then you get XID error 8 (GPU stopped processing) on dmesg
<diddledan> possibly a driver bug?
<ali1234> yes, quite likely
<diddledan> I have no idea how to go about debugging drivers tho
<ali1234> more likely i'm just doing it wrong
<diddledan> heh
<Safiyyah> Is there a hardware issue with Ubuntu?  I  mean I  have a suspicion this is a hard drive issue
<daftykins> oh hello again Safiyyah o/
<daftykins> Safiyyah: tried booting an older kernel, yet?
<ali1234> hmm now THAT is interesting
<diddledan> ello daftykins
<ali1234> problem seems to be related to nvidia-settings
<diddledan> ooh
<ali1234> [ 1891.223186] NVRM: Xid (0000:01:00): 8, Channel 00000003
<ali1234> argh
<Safiyyah> Daftykins I  don't know how to do that
<Safiyyah> It happened about 90 minutes after an upgrade
<daftykins> Safiyyah: hold the left hand shift key at bootup, just before the computer is about to boot from the hard disk. you'll get the GRUB menu, select 'advanced options' then pick another kernel
<ali1234> when was the upgrade?
<Safiyyah> I  updated
<ali1234> yes, when?
<Safiyyah> I  think I  have been running Xubuntu for a month
<Safiyyah> It's been perfect....  Until now
<ali1234> so this has been happening for 1 month minus 90 minutes?
<Safiyyah> On Sunday night.
<Safiyyah> No it was fine until the update on Sunday
<Safiyyah> And now the machine freezes
<ali1234> okay, and you are running 14.10?
<daftykins> 14.04 methinks
<daftykins> Safiyyah is wise and sticks to LTS
<ali1234> oh yeah
<ali1234> well, i'm on 14.04 too
<Safiyyah> It also brought back the guest account which I had disabled all on its own
<ali1234> no problems until this weird opengl stuff today... but maybe it is related somehow
<ali1234> doubt it though, in a LTS
<Safiyyah> I  thing am on 1404 I  only use LTS
<awilkins> Running 14.10 on the laptop
<daftykins> Safiyyah: so go try the older kernels to see if it makes a difference
<awilkins> Only annoyance is that MySQL Workbench (Oracle builds) are broken
<awilkins> Had to recompile it from source
<ali1234> no, look at the logs first
<ali1234> before oyu start changing things up
<Safiyyah> Okay  doing that now...  Am on and chat on the mobile phone
<diddledan> always check out logs, children!
<diddledan> your*
<diddledan> and most definitely always check your logs before flushing them
<diddledan> logrotate?
<Safiyyah> Daftykins there was some device error messages before it flicked to the log in screen
<ali1234> hmm yeah there's a kernel update
<Safiyyah> I  guess I  will find out if it is still stuck in 5 minutes
<Safiyyah> I  hope it's the Kernel and not a deal hard drive
<daftykins> Safiyyah: if you can boot a live session we can check the hard disk health
<diddledan> daftykins, don't you dare. you've killed enough hard disks already! :-p
<Safiyyah> All my live disks are really old.
<Safiyyah> Lol can't I just do the memtest on the grub menu?
<daftykins> diddledan: MOAR
<daftykins> you can run memtest sure, that has nothing to do with the disks though
<daftykins> hilariously i'm in memtest on my desktop right now, i thought i'd see if my old core 2 quad wanted to run at 1066MHz again...
<daftykins> answer: no
<Safiyyah> Okay.  We'll see how long it works before it dies
<Safiyyah> So there was a kernel update ali1234?
<Safiyyah> Wilk start watching out for those.  As I  normally also hold off flash updates as well
<ali1234> yeah, sometime since october 28th
<Safiyyah> Because suddenly all flash stops working.  I refuse the update for a couple of months normally
<daftykins> avoiding updates is pretty head-in-sand thinking
<Safiyyah> Will now start refusing the Kernel updates
<daftykins> especially when it's a few key presses to go back to an older one
<Safiyyah> Lol I  need a working machine Daftykins lol
<ali1234> november 13th
<daftykins> sure you do, but you've yet to tell me whether you've booted an older kernel or not yet.
<ali1234> you know what else is just a few key presses? checking the syslog for the true error message
<daftykins> doing so would make a lot more sense ahead of a memtest
<Safiyyah> Daftykins I  have booked in the older kernel
<Safiyyah> I am playing around on the computer
<daftykins> what, so it worked?
<Safiyyah> ....  Remember it was logging in and freezing after 5 minutes
<Safiyyah> So am waiting for the freeze
<daftykins> nah i forgot that part already, if i ever read it :>
<Safiyyah> Lol
<daftykins> i have to go grab some laundry, back in a bit
<Safiyyah> It's still froze.  It closed Firefox automatically.  If I  select anything from the whisker menu.  That also crashes
<Safiyyah> Yep definitely frozen
<ali1234> press ctrl-alt-f1
<Safiyyah> Too late.  I  pressed log out and got a frozen everything. Had to power off
<Safiyyah> Ali1234  I  am logged in again with an older kernel
<ali1234> dmesg | pastebinit
<Safiyyah> Will try again once it freezes
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> I  don't have that straight line on my keyboard
<Safiyyah> What now?
<ali1234> dmesg > /tmp/log
<ali1234> pastebinit /tmp/log
<daftykins> if your left slash is beside you left shift key, pipe | is shift+\
<daftykins> *your
<diddledan> it should be on most layouts, I think
<diddledan> (shift+\, I mean)
<awilkins> Some keyboards it looks like two vertical bars
<Safiyyah> It froze
<awilkins> Or a single bar with a gap in the middle
<Safiyyah> We are not going to get anything like that out
<diddledan> press ctrl-alt-f1
<Safiyyah> Ali1234  I didn't the control alt F1
<Safiyyah> Abd it says log in.  When I  do.  It says error at sector 866554
<Safiyyah> Dev sda
<ali1234> sorry, dead hard drive
<Safiyyah> It's my hard drive isn't it?
<Safiyyah> Which hard drive is dead. The home partition or the root partition
<diddledan> hint, partition != drive
<daftykins>  /home most likely
<daftykins> Safiyyah has an SSD + mechanical setup these days
<Safiyyah> No wayyyyyyy.....  That's the new one
<daftykins> Safiyyah: what version liveCDs/DVDs/USBs do you have lying around?
<Safiyyah> I  have two SSD.  One for home
<Safiyyah> I think 12.04
<Safiyyah> I  didn't keep the USB because I  needed it
<daftykins> that's perfect, wanna get that booted for us?
<Safiyyah> Okay
<daftykins> diddledan: moar disks for dafty, the dead disk sniffer
<diddledan> daftykins, you're a bad omen
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> I  just hope it's not the home partition
<daftykins> :(
<Safiyyah> Daftykins it's loading.  Please give it a minute
<daftykins> Safiyyah: will the live session be able to get online fine enough?
<daftykins> i don't recall whether you're wireless or wired
<daftykins> my new toys arrived from amazon today guys ;)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lkdb6947vrelenh/AAAiV3oJh91aMhkru6_FehdUa?dl=0
<daftykins> ridiculous packaging for a switch
<Safiyyah> Am in!
<diddledan> daftykins, is it a clever switch?
<diddledan> (smart)
<Safiyyah> Daftykins am in
<daftykins> diddledan: well, standard unmanaged
<daftykins> Safiyyah: open a terminal and run "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit smartmontools" then run "sudo parted -l | pastebinit"
<Safiyyah> I don't have a pipe key
<daftykins> hmm, > might work, dunno
<Safiyyah> Oh sorry apparently I do
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> daftykins, I like in the first pic before you've taken it out that you're petting the box "my precious"
<Safiyyah> On the live disk
<daftykins> diddledan: i used my hand for scale! :D
<daftykins> my heavily scarred hand
<Safiyyah> Daftykins...  It says unable to locate package pastebinit
<daftykins> really? wat
<daftykins> Safiyyah: ah well, you can just use a browser to manually share them with us
<daftykins> in fact you could just jump on webchat too
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> Where is webchat?
<diddledan> on teh webs :-p
<diddledan> chat.freenode.net?
<diddledan> aah, close. webchat.freenode.net
<daftykins> *nod*
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> Am in webchat as Safiyyah2
<Safiyyah2> daftykins: I am ready
<daftykins> so visit http://paste.ubuntu.co.uk in another tab and run "sudo parted -l" in the terminal - and paste it for us manually
<daftykins> ok that's not a real page
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com
<diddledan> ^ +1
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350366/
<daftykins> well that's not a good sign, we don't even see the other disk
<diddledan> file -s /dev/sdb
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: does "sudo apt-get install smartmontools" work?
<Safiyyah2> yes
<daftykins> try what diddledan said, then see if you get much from "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdb"
<Safiyyah2> diddledan: it says no read permission
<Safiyyah2> daftykins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350429/
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: "dmesg | tail" ?
<daftykins> seems that disk is really unhappy
<diddledan> unless it's really 600PB
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350458/
<daftykins> ok my connection is having major issues tonight, not sure if i'm gonna survive this D:
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: i would power off and check the hard disk connections just to be sure, give them a good unplug and replug
<daftykins> but i think your hard disk is dead
<Safiyyah2> this is my hard drive
<Safiyyah2> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BDS5GGQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00
<Safiyyah2> oh the returns procedure is going to kill me
<Safiyyah2> it takes agaes
<Safiyyah2> ages!!!
<diddledan> how old is it?
<daftykins> err i just saw a sandisk SSD
<Safiyyah2> i just bought it on the 14th of Sept diddledan
<Safiyyah2> amazon says I have passed the return period
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: the SSD is fine, it's the mechanical hard disk that's acting up
<daftykins> so you're probably gonna want to back it up first, but it doesn't look like it's working well enough to backup from :(
<Safiyyah2> i have my trusty fedora core disk
<Safiyyah2> always pulls data out for me
<daftykins> not with a dead disk it won't
<Safiyyah2> *sob*
<Safiyyah2> I have a lot of work on there in the last month
<daftykins> but anyway yeah check the connections
<daftykins> boot from live again, and rejoin
<Safiyyah2> okay. am on and chat
<daftykins> i need to go and hide lots of wrapping from my cat as she's being a real pain right now :P
<Safiyyah2> as safiyyah
<ali1234> hooray, i fixed my buggy opengl code
<daftykins> \o/ so it was something you were doing?
<ali1234> yes, i made a "dirty" flag so that the VBOs would only update when the game state changed
<ali1234> but i forgot to set it true at startup
<ali1234> so i was drawing from uninitialized memory fr the first 100 frames or so
<daftykins> oops!
<daftykins> that's bound to make it stroppy
<ali1234> and with uninitialized count, so it was attempting to draw like 1 billion triangles every frame
<ali1234> and every triangle would have been random floats as well, ie huge
<ali1234> certainly explains why the GPU was hanging
<daftykins> :D
<Safiyyah> Daftykins am on my fedora live disk and I  have access to my hard drive
<daftykins> that wasn't what i said at all! :P
<Safiyyah> I  need super user privileges to copy my home directly
<Safiyyah> I  know but you put me in a panic
<Safiyyah> Talking about not being able to get my data
<Safiyyah> Okay.  Okay.  I  will be obedient. I  am sorry
<daftykins> do you have an external to backup to?
<Safiyyah> Yes
<Safiyyah> I  have
<daftykins> i would advise starting with the bare minimum
<Safiyyah> Hmm?  I  was going to backup my home drive
<Safiyyah> And then whatever happens happens
<daftykins> oh i'm sure you were, but taking the whole lot will probably result in surprises
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> The urgent things only hmm
<daftykins> it doesn't make much sense as to why some other distro would be happily chatting to it whilst two versions of ubuntu were crying themselves silly trying to talk to that disk
<Safiyyah> I  need to Skype file.  Which needs super use privileges
<Safiyyah> Thus fedora disk always get my data out
<Safiyyah> Even if the drive is dead
<daftykins> yeah no, this is not a fact
<Safiyyah> I  have used it for the last 8 years
<daftykins> there's something funny going on for sure, but fedora is not some magical thing
<Safiyyah> Lol
<daftykins> it doesn't revive storage from the brink of death solely from having a different name
<Safiyyah> Any help with the super user.  Thing?
<daftykins> you probably need to mount the disk differently or copy as root to get stuff off there, i don't know - you're talking a different distro now ;)
<daftykins> i'll leave you with these 2+ more than capable chaps, as i need to get some food now
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> Will do as you asked
<Safiyyah> Where are the other two chaps?
<ali1234> like this is because the errors are on the system partition
<ali1234> so they get hit when it boots up ubuntu
<ali1234> once you hit one error on hdd, many more reads will fail
<Safiyyah> So I  don't need a new HTC just a fresh install?
<ali1234> however, if you are just poking one or two files, because you mounted it from a live CD, then you can get stuff off
<Safiyyah> Had?
<Safiyyah> I  can't get anything off
<ali1234> no, you need a new drive
<Safiyyah> Oh my god
<daftykins> ali1234: it's an SSD + HDD setup
<ali1234> oh.
<ali1234> those are bad :(
<Safiyyah> No its Two SSD
<Safiyyah> I  don't have a HDD
<daftykins> is it 0o oh i don't remember right then
<Safiyyah> Am surprised how much you do remember Daftykins....  Very impressive
<Safiyyah> So is the plan to help me get the data off?
<Safiyyah> What time do you guys come in in the morning?
<Safiyyah> I  need to go lie down....  This news is very bad news indeed
<daftykins> i don't function in the mornings at the moment sadly
<Safiyyah> Ali?
<ali1234> we are the night shift
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> So I  better get my coffee
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> Okay please don't be upset if I  have an emotional outburst
<daftykins> well, working on ones own data after bad news is never too productive
<Safiyyah> That's what is coming once am tired.  I  apologise in advance
<Safiyyah> Okay.  Let's start again.  Am listening
<Safiyyah> U need to check the connection?
<Safiyyah> I *
<daftykins> probably not, but it wouldn't hurt
<ali1234> you need to find a hard drive that is bigger than your home drive
<Safiyyah> I  have an external driveu
<Safiyyah> It's 500gb
<Safiyyah> Hone drive is 256
<ali1234> how much free space?
<Safiyyah> I  think I  have about 250 ish
<ali1234> well, you need more than 256
<Safiyyah> My home drive had used up 164
<Safiyyah> How come?
<ali1234> because you want to image the failing drive with dd_rescue before working on it
<ali1234> that means you copy the whole thing including the empty space
<Safiyyah> Oh
<Safiyyah> Well I  can delete stuff from the drive
<Safiyyah> No problem
<Safiyyah> It has my last backup in October saved on
<daftykins> i think the problem is a bit more serious than that right now, to me it's "why does the ubuntu 12.04 live session not see the disk properly?"
<ali1234> have you determined which drive is actually broken yet?
<Safiyyah> Didn't you guys say it's the home drive?
<Safiyyah> Daftykins?
<ali1234> we don't know
<ali1234> we're just going on what you tell us
<ali1234> i missed a bunch of the log too
<daftykins> ali1234: a sudo parted -l came back with /dev/sda reading fine, /dev/sdb wasn't happy
<daftykins> let me see if i have those pastebins
<daftykins> ali1234: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350366/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350429/
<daftykins> oh and http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350458/
<ali1234> oh wow, failed to even read the partition table? that's bad
<ali1234> you probably won't be able to do anything with it
<daftykins> mmhmm
<Safiyyah> Thanks Daftykins
<daftykins> ali1234: though Safiyyah says a fedora liveCD comes up with it fine O_O
<daftykins> which means me 'wtf'
<ali1234> it's SSD right?
<Safiyyah> Yep
<ali1234> they go into like, "lock down" mode on errors
<ali1234> maybe fedora knows how to unlock them
<ali1234> i don't know very much about SSDs
<ali1234> probably can't help you at all here
<Safiyyah> Well normally I can just copy my data over.  But now it says no to everything
<daftykins> what method were you trying?
<ali1234> normally?
<Safiyyah> Yes on the fedora disk
<Safiyyah> Just drag and drop
<daftykins> mmm so GUI based
<ali1234> but it doesn't work now?
<Safiyyah> Today it says no to everything.  Apparently I need super user privileges
<ali1234> ah, mounted r/o due to journal errors probably
<ali1234> can you see the files at all?
<Safiyyah> Yes
<Safiyyah> All files are there
<ali1234> you should be able to sudo or su to root without needing a password
<ali1234> you might need to copy the files in the terminal though, in that case
<Safiyyah> Yes but I  need a nautilus with super user
<Safiyyah> It doesn't have that
<ali1234> sudo nautilus
<Safiyyah> Okay am rebooting
<ali1234> however, i wouldn't do that
<Safiyyah> I  had already powered off
<diddledan> err
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> Tell me what to do
<ali1234> copy the files with the shell
<ali1234> it's faster
<ali1234> and you will see if any errors happen
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> So do I  load grub or a live disk?
<ali1234> live disk
<Safiyyah> My latest disk is 12.04
<Safiyyah> Goibg to load it
<ali1234> what happened to fedora?
<Safiyyah> I  thought you said you don't want fedora?
<Safiyyah> Okay am on fedora at the moment.
<Safiyyah> Shall I  continue on fedora?
<daftykins> it's not nautilus in fedora and it doesn't use sudo afaik 0o
<ali1234> it doesn't matter
<Safiyyah> Okay am on fedora
<ali1234> open a shell and check the mounts
<Safiyyah> Dmesg?
<ali1234> it's always worth a look
<Safiyyah> File - l
<Safiyyah> Okay  am coming in via the Web as Safiyyah2
<Safiyyah2> dmesg output
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350934/
<Safiyyah2> what is the file - l  one again?
<ali1234> okay nothing serious in dmesg
<Safiyyah2> nxt move?
<Safiyyah2> what next please?
<ali1234> check which drives are mounted
<brobostigon> good night boys and girls.
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: "mount" on its' own and pastebin, might be handy
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9350998/
<daftykins> if you type "su" does it let you switch to root@ ?
<Safiyyah2> yes
<daftykins> ok a pastebin of "fdisk -l" now
<ali1234> so nothing is mounted
<Safiyyah2> terminal is still working on it
<daftykins> ooh-err
<Safiyyah2> i think there is a problem with the process
<daftykins> did it get /dev/sda done, then stall?
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9351059/
<Safiyyah2> no it completed the process, it just took it a while
<Safiyyah2> see output
<ali1234> sdb disappeared
<ali1234> but it was on dmesg, and it read the partition table once
<ali1234> this is weird
<daftykins> definitely very flakey
<Safiyyah2> my external HDD is plugged in, I think it picked it up... where is the 500gb from otherwise?
<daftykins> i don't understand what all this /dev/dm# business is
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: yeah your external is /dev/sdc but /dev/sdb never got read so is playing up
<daftykins> so fedora is no saviour
<Safiyyah2> lol
<Safiyyah2> you really wanted to prove that point daftykins !!!!
<daftykins> sure did!
<diddledan> the /dev/dm's are from the live disk
<Safiyyah2> okay ready to accept me losses
<Safiyyah2> please can you help me save my data
<diddledan> i.e.: EXT4-fs (dm-0): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode
<diddledan> dracut: Mounted root filesystem /dev/mapper/live-rw
<Safiyyah2> looks like am going to need a whole day to set up a new system again :(
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: that was the plan all along but it doesn't look likely because the second SSD is disappearing from the system
<daftykins> nah only your /home is gone :P
<daftykins> all the software is still there and the OS
<Safiyyah2> okay
<daftykins> just... no user stuff like configs or data
<Safiyyah2> but I will be loosing all my recent work
<Safiyyah2> okay
<daftykins> as things stand, yep
<Safiyyah2> since it loads up for 2 minutes before crashing
<Safiyyah2> maybe I will boot it up and save my work on drop box
<Safiyyah2> it's all I can think of
<Safiyyah2> just the main files I need
<daftykins> your upload speed would have to be pretty good to get anywhere with that
<Safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> in fact i doubt it'd work, as your dropbox will be on the bad disk
<daftykins> this approach of going in via live sessions is the best one
<Safiyyah2> I will just try my external drive?
<daftykins> but it's still acting wonky now
<Safiyyah2> okay so I need to see about a returns tomorrow
<daftykins> oh you can get to your external disk just fine... just there's no /home disk to actually copy off from
<daftykins> as it's unreliably present
<Safiyyah2> am just going to boot it up and save what I can
<daftykins> you guys have any better ideas? it's being so inconsistent i'm out.
<daftykins> (of ideas)
<Safiyyah> I saved the important stuff guys
<Safiyyah> Will reboot and get one other thing.  It froze again
<daftykins> erk
<ali1234> i don't have any ideas right now. i'd have to do some serious googling research to learn about SSD failure modes
<Safiyyah> Well I  got my most important data out
<Safiyyah> Trying for the not so important stuff now
<Safiyyah> So I  need to contact SanDisk?
<Safiyyah> Don't Amazon have a warranty period?
<ali1234> probably, but you are usually better off going direct to the manufacturer for hard drive returns
<ali1234> all they will do is send you a new one though
<ali1234> if you are lucky
<ali1234> the two minutes thing is weird though
<ali1234> seems like a firmware error or something, probably no data is really lost
<ali1234> it's just shutting down for some reason. maybe over heating or something
<daftykins> Safiyyah: i'd try amazon direct, doesn't hurt
<daftykins> SSD manufacturers typically won't do a thing until you've secure erased the drive
<Safiyyah> Okay will call Amazon tomorrow
<Safiyyah> And get a replacement or refund
<daftykins> i think their returns are all account based now
<daftykins> so just through the site
<daftykins> you can make your one-SSD setup workable in the meantime too?
<Safiyyah> The one online says that I can't return it
<Safiyyah> It's past the deadline
<Safiyyah> Am wondering if there is a exception for faulty goods
<daftykins> i would hope so
<Safiyyah> I  will just live without a computer
<Safiyyah> I  don't want to mess up my current  hard drive
<Safiyyah> I  still want the same setup
<Safiyyah> Just need a new disk
<daftykins> well you'd have to setup the new one anyway
<daftykins> and what better way to do so, than from an already working install ;)
<daftykins> but yeah, up to you
<Safiyyah> Just remembered that I  also installed Ardesia before this crash
<daftykins> !info ardesia
<lubotu3> ardesia (source: ardesia): free digital sketchpad software. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.1-1 (utopic), package size 1093 kB, installed size 1724 kB
<daftykins> !info ardesia trusty
<Safiyyah> Daftykins don't I just need to put the new drive in.  And set it up as the home partition
<lubotu3> ardesia (source: ardesia): free digital sketchpad software. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.1-1 (trusty), package size 1093 kB, installed size 1724 kB
<Safiyyah> And the  copy my files over
<daftykins> Safiyyah: and modify your /etc/fstab yep
<Safiyyah> I mean....  The OS us still there
<daftykins> yip
<Safiyyah> Yes that's why am saying I don't want to touch it
<daftykins> but you will see some lovely errors trying to boot with no /home for your user
<Safiyyah> My printer everything is configured
<ali1234> try to get one of those crucial refurbs
<ali1234> they were like Â£30 for 128GB
<Safiyyah> Will save me a lot of time not to touch it
<daftykins> i disagree, but fair enough your call
<ali1234> then you can keep your "broken" drive, which i suspect is in fact not actually broken
<Safiyyah> Daftykins what was your suggestion exactly
<Safiyyah> Let me try to see things from your side please
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-03
<daftykins> disconnect your second SSD which is acting up... boot a live session, make a /home on the  / partition, comment out /home from the faulty SSD in your /etc/fstab then you'd have a working install to use in the meantime
<Safiyyah> And when the new drive comes?
<daftykins> you'd have a working install so that you could plug it in and use non live-session programs to set it up ready
<Safiyyah> Okay I will have to cross that bridge when I  get to it because my brain can't understand it
<Safiyyah> Anyway  I  have backed up everything that I remember is urgent
<Safiyyah> So it won't h
<Safiyyah> Am trying to remember what other hidden files I need...  Lol
<Safiyyah> Okay am ready
<Safiyyah> So power down.  Unplug crazy drive
<Safiyyah> Right?
<daftykins> yip
<Safiyyah> Okay here we go.....
<Safiyyah> Okay  we are booting into live disk
<daftykins> 12.04 one?
<Safiyyah> Interesting...  I just remembered that I have a cable which connects the power supply and the SATA plus.  And it's a splitting one (combined one ) not two separate ones. Could that also be the issue?
<Safiyyah> Yes Daftykins 12.04
<daftykins> very highly doubt it
<Safiyyah> This whole affair has made me want to eat
<Safiyyah> But at least I can sleep knowing my files are safe
<Safiyyah> Lol the idea of losing them made me want to go lie down
<daftykins> you may have to make your backups more often when you get settled again ;)
<Safiyyah> Yeah
<Safiyyah> This has been rather scary
<Safiyyah> The problem is that once the computer works for Bout 6 months.  You forget about the reality of loosing data and return to ones old ways
<daftykins> :)
<Safiyyah> Daftykins everything is up and running
<Safiyyah> Joining via the web
<daftykins> ok fire up a terminal and run "sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
<daftykins> followed by "cat /etc/fstab" then pastebin that
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> nope ignore that
<daftykins> "cat /mnt/etc/fstab"
<Safiyyah2> hello
<Safiyyah> Firefox is frozen.  And terminal says it can't read superblock
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> maybe it's not gonna be as easy as initially thought :P
<daftykins> you could try "sudo mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt" but i doubt it'd make much difference to a superblock error
<Safiyyah> Firefox has crashed three times on the webchat
<daftykins> that's not a good sign at all
<daftykins> maybe running a memtest after all wouldn't hurt
<daftykins> perhaps it's better to do that overnight and come back to things tomorrow, as it's already crazy o'clock
<Safiyyah> Perhaps we should check the health of this hard drive as well
<daftykins> well, SSDs don't report things as do hard disks. so there's nothing i know of that'd say
<Safiyyah> Hmm
<daftykins> you can see if the kernel is crying with "dmesg | tail" again
<Safiyyah> I  can't paste in Firefox.  It says cannot set free 48000 to ep 0Ã86
<Safiyyah> Free = freq
<Safiyyah> Spell check on phone changes text sometimes
<daftykins> *nod* autocorrect is a pain
<daftykins> i think memtest would be a good move
<Safiyyah> The pastebin is at 9351347
<Safiyyah> Pkease type the full link then that number for my oaste
<daftykins> oh hmm nothing much detailed about that
<Safiyyah> Hmm
<daftykins> yeah, i still vote memtest :>
<Safiyyah> Are you telling me am better off with an old school HDD?
<Safiyyah> Yes well memtest takes hours
<daftykins> oh dear Tux, no
<daftykins> sure does
<Safiyyah> Can leave it running overnight
<daftykins> but it also saves me a lot of time once i discover machines i'm working on are wonky
<daftykins> yip
<Safiyyah> What time roughly will you be about?
<Safiyyah> 10 11.
<Safiyyah> ?
<daftykins> late evening
<Safiyyah> Oh my god,  you are trying to kill me
<Safiyyah> Will be back
<Safiyyah> Thank you ever so much
<daftykins> anytime ^_^
<daftykins> you can always try the rest of this channel in the day time
<daftykins> plenty of us about
<Safiyyah> So that's grub and then memtest?
<daftykins> i would use the one on the 12.04 liveCD
<Safiyyah> OH
<Safiyyah> How do I  do that?
<daftykins> when it's booting and is purple, you get a little icon at the bottom of the screen - press enter and a language select menu comes up
<daftykins> then 'memory test' is on the menu behind
<Safiyyah> Is this checking the RAM
<Safiyyah> ?
<ali1234> if yoou see a mostly blue screen with white writing, and some red and green bits, and lots of crazy numbers, then yes
<Safiyyah> Okay
<daftykins> mmhmm
<Safiyyah> Will leave it over night
<Safiyyah> Report back tomorrow
<daftykins> righty-o
<daftykins> nn o/
<Safiyyah> Night guys.  At least I got my data
<daftykins> heh just had fun with a cheap powerline kit
<daftykins> here's my reference wired gigabit file copy from server to laptop:
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/j9z3vys0i9apgvo/wiredtest.gif?dl=0
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3140rv4kypk5dnc/powerlinetest.gif?dl=0
<daftykins> "500Mbps" power line adapters with a 100Mb port are officially false advertising imo \o/
<shauno> what happens if you have more than 2 such adaptors?
<shauno> I mean, say you have 4, can you get 100mbit from A-B and C-D simultaneously?
<daftykins> mmm not sure
<daftykins> depends what routes your house mains wiring runs
<shauno> actually, I guess it's a pointless question unless you can also do A-C and B-D :)
<daftykins> that's the thing i don't quite get, i see it as being surely just point to point
<daftykins> but the box of the item paints a different picture
<shauno> I guess that's what I was wondering.  if it's simply point-to-point, then you'd expect 500meg straight through
<shauno> if it's actually a network to itself, then 500meg becomes the capacity of the 'trunk' (mains)
<daftykins> i think it is, and likely they refer to 500Mb because of overhead
<daftykins> as otherwise calling that 500 but the ports being 100Mb is pretty fail design :D
<daftykins> http://uk.tp-link.com/resources/document/TL-PA451KIT%28UK_V2_Datasheet.pdf
<daftykins> here we go, check out the picture at the bottom
<daftykins> or i can take an image if you'd prefer not to touch PDF :>
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I'm on a mac, pdf is handled pretty natively :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<shauno> hm, see their diagram shows 6 points being used on one network (not 3 pairs)
<intrbiz> as I understand it, powerline networking is a broadcast medium
<intrbiz> so the 500Mb/s is the global bandwidth
<intrbiz> regardless that each plug can only handle 100Mb/s
<daftykins> ah i see
<intrbiz> its a little like WiFI in that the WiFi bandwidth is global
<daftykins> so you can indeed add 2 and it becomes a triangle of funkiness 0o
<daftykins> sorry, add 1 to my kit of 2
<intrbiz> so with single stream N, 150Mb/s between two stations would max the air space
<shauno> 3's a bad example because you couldn't get two 100mbit streams through without saturating one first
<intrbiz> so that other stations could not reach 150Mb/s
<shauno> but with 4 you should be able to get 2 100meg streams a-b and c-d
<intrbiz> so a 500Mb/s P/L network could handle 5 x 100Mb/s plugs talking at the same time
<intrbiz> effectively thing of it as a time divided shared medium
<shauno> it's a shame they don't have a variant with a gig-e port though.  having the router behind a 100meg port is a bit sadface
<intrbiz> rarely the router has > 100Mb/s internet connection
<daftykins> yeah, makes me love my cat6 even more :>
<shauno> I don't mind being rare :)
<daftykins> likely i'll gift these to friends who don't quite have the same standards
<shauno> I avoid powerline stuff because it sounds like a nightmare for my radios
<intrbiz> at one point HAM groups did try to mount legal action over the EMI of Powerline
<daftykins> that's true, we had someone the other day saying it was evil
<shauno> well it should't really propogate far
<shauno> but I think it's a safe assumption that it'd be noticable within my own home at least
<intrbiz> yes, but it does place interference onto the mains, which might not be filtered by a radios PSU
<intrbiz> unless you've got a good range of caps in that
<shauno> well, it's going to turn every mains cable on that circuit into radiators too
<daftykins> i could probably test that as just now i tested its' speed by going up into my bedroom where i have a micro component hi-fi with a squeezebox (wifi music streamer)
<intrbiz> daftykins: btw getting 11.4MB/s on 100Mb/s port is basically maxing the line
<daftykins> yes, i know networking sir ;)
<daftykins> you can see i'm alost saturating gigabit \o/
<daftykins> RAID -> SSD was the first image
<daftykins> kinda surprised i got 2 cables in with the box
<daftykins> nice of them to make a kit... an actual kit :)
<markp> hi night owls
<daftykins> o hai
<zmoylan-pi> twit twoo
<markp> hey= zmoylan-pi
<markp> hey daftykins
<daftykins> o hai
<daftykins> just about to call it
<daftykins> broken again :<
<zmoylan-pi> what's broken?
<markp> ?:(
<daftykins> my sleep schedule :D
<zmoylan-pi> a very hard thing to fix
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> especially with not much going on in winter time
<daftykins> alright, i'm gonna head off... g'night gents \o
<zmoylan-pi> sleep well
<daftykins> ty!
<mapps> gah cursor froze
<mapps> stupid win8
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the word stupid redundant when you say win8? :-)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> this itpl tennis has some funny rules
<mapps> power point..reciever can chose one point per set to be worth double heh
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of sportsball thing? or video game thereof? :-)
<mapps> real play..tennis some new league
<mapps> got some biug names in it
<mapps> need some new bedtime comedies;d
<zmoylan-pi> have you tried the bbc radio comedy cabin pressure?
<mapps> nah never...whats it about?
<mapps> and on iplayer?
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have to get it other ways these days.  it stars cumberbatch of sherlock fame as a pilot in one plane airline.  very very funny.  25 episode over 4 series and last episode in a few weeks
<mapps> night
<mapps> off to sleep:)
<MooDoo> morning all
<directhex> an ubuntu tablet. with spinning rust. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ubutab-a-1tb-ubuntu-tablet-for-media-lovers
<ali1234> $36000 for a one off production run at $290 per device?
<MooDoo> there is this one as well i found this morning. - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ubutab-a-1tb-ubuntu-tablet-for-media-lovers
<MooDoo> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/imp-the-tiny-home-computer sorry this one
<ali1234> >_<
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Make A Gift Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> use the heaviest paper possible when wrapping and see if the statistics show more postman injured this year in deliveries
<mjayk> Good morning JamesTait
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait
<JamesTait> mjayk, MooDoo: o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> moringin zmoylan-pi
<mjayk> hay ho sir
<diddledan> popey, you asked me to ping you when https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/993837 occurs again. so ping.
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 993837 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Can't open Update Manager window after a while" [High,Confirmed]
<popey> aha
<popey> diddledan: do you have multiple screens?
<diddledan> I do, yes
<popey> using unity?
<diddledan> yup
<popey> if you click the update manager do you get a solid triangle to the left of it in the launcher?
<popey> or an empty one?
<diddledan> indeed I do
<diddledan> a solid one
<popey> can you alt-tab to it?
<diddledan> it appears in the list but selecting it doesn't bring it to the fore
<popey> ok
<popey> alt-tab to it
<popey> then ALT+space
<popey> does a menu appear?
<popey> and, if you alt-tab to it, then alt-space then (if menu appears) choose move, does the window appear?
<diddledan> no, it leaves hexchat in the fore (the previously active window) and alt-space opens hexchat's menu (as proven by selecting minimize from the menu and having hexchat disappear)
<popey> ok
<popey> press Super + W, do you see the update manager window?
<popey> if not, press Super + Shift + W and do you see it then?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> neither of those show it
<popey> 14.04 or 14.10?
<diddledan> 14.10
<diddledan> I've seen it in successive releases though, but can't remember how far back it goes
<popey> is it a particularly slow pc?
<diddledan> not at all
<popey> hmmmm
<popey> diddledan: has your system got a high uptime?
<popey> i.e. has unity been updated but not restarted for a while?
<diddledan> 11:26:31 up 12:34,  2 users,  load average: 0.60, 0.46, 0.32
<diddledan> I wouldn't consider that high
<diddledan> but no updates have been applied since last reboot
<popey> hmm
<popey> Not sure then, sorry.
<popey> I suspect bamf
 * popey asks a desktop person
<diddledan> doing my bit for the enemy: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531526
<lubotu3> bugs.gentoo.org bug 531526 in Vulnerabilities "<net-misc/openvpn-2.3.6 Denial of Service Vulnerability CVE-2014-8104" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> lubotu does gentoo buglinks?
<shauno> I believe it does RH, so why not?
<diddledan> because they're the enema
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> bugs are the enemy :)
<Myrtti> Is that the one I mentioned some days back?
<shauno> I believe so
<diddledan> Myrtti, yes
<diddledan> Myrtti, popey, do you know whether the ubuntu security team aware of the openvpn vulnerability?
<popey> they're on the usual lists
<Myrtti> no idea, I've been concentrating on my own issues
<popey> you can pop by #ubuntu-security
<diddledan> it wasn't announced on a usual list IIRC
<jpds> diddledan: Already released.
<diddledan> thanks, jpds
<jpds> diddledan: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2430-1/
<diddledan> aah, yesterday
 * jpds pats his IPsec connections instead.
<diddledan> ipsec ftw
<diddledan> I've always found it a pain to configure tho
<jpds> diddledan: Not on Ubuntu, it isn't anymore.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> intrbiz: ping
<diddledan> pong
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<zmoylan-pi> denny
<bigcalm> !king
<lubotu3> kong
<diddledan> !sing
<diddledan> bah
<diddledan> lubotu3, you suck
<awilkins> The bot in *our* IRC channel hurls an obscenity at you if you tell it it sucks....
<diddledan> awilkins, now that's a bot I can do business with!
<davmor2> bigcalm: you need help
<davmor2> also bigcalm marco
<bigcalm> !marco
<bigcalm> Hehe, yeah, that's missing
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ivFpsmEVQ
<diddledan> http://www.kitguru.net/channel/jon-martindale/say-goodbye-to-clip-art/
<diddledan> directhex, that's awesome
<diddledan> and now I get this as related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKOZgQy8qrw
<Safiyyah> Daftykins, Ali1234  are you around?
<Safiyyah> Sandisk does not support Linux and their drivers in order to test the drive are only for Mac and Windows users because well apparently Linux allows user to change settings
<Safiyyah> I think this is my first and last purchase of SanDisk
<diddledan> Safiyyah, tell them the drive isn't recognised by the computer. it has nothing to do with linux
<Safiyyah> Am so angry!
<Safiyyah> They haven't got a clue about anything!
<Safiyyah> They are telling me to try a different SATA cable
<Safiyyah> Diddledan you know Samsung supports Linux.....  It was between this drive and a Samsung one and I chose this one.  Â£115 down the toilet!
<intrbiz> Safiyyah: I'm intrigued, in what way does it not show up?
<diddledan> intrbiz, it doesn't present a block device file in /dev - or rather it does for a few moments and then it disappears
<diddledan> when using the drive on his booted system he gets system lockups
<Safiyyah237> Diddledan I think we have to get the machine going in the meantime as Daftykins was saying last night.  This returns process will take 3 to 4 weeks.  I  have work to do
<diddledan> we tried probing it with fdisk which reported it as being 600PB in size
<intrbiz> right, that's a new one
<diddledan> basically it's screwed
<intrbiz> sounds like the disk hardware is fucked
<diddledan> bingo
<diddledan> but..
<diddledan> !language
<lubotu3> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<diddledan> :-p
<Safiyyah237> Diddledan let me know if you have time to help me get the /root drive Corsair  going.  Because the OS is there but no home drive
<intrbiz> my mate had a Samsung EV) 840 1TB, that died after less than a week, wouldn't how on the SATA bus at all, even to the controller
<intrbiz> took about 4 weeks to get a replacement from Samsung
<Safiyyah237> Daftykins said he would be back at night,  but this is a reality check that  I have to get the machine going in the meantime
<Safiyyah237> OMG  I  was going to buy either the Samsung EVO Or this SanDisk X110
<Safiyyah237> And decided on the SanDisk
<Safiyyah237> Well at least Samsung  supports Linux
<intrbiz> In what way do Samsun support Linux
<Safiyyah237> Nothing more irritating than speaking to customer services who don't have a clue what to do
<intrbiz> their fix tool for the 840 EV0 doesn't run on Linux
<intrbiz> they provide a DOS boot iso
<intrbiz> which crashes on AMD sata controllers
<Safiyyah237> Ibtrbiz they have diagnostic tools that work for Linux users
<intrbiz> right ok
<Safiyyah237> Sandisk has nothing
<Safiyyah237> Yes but then dos boot iso works on any platform
<intrbiz> how old is it?
<intrbiz> Safiyyah237: you'd think, but not so
<intrbiz> lots of issues with, it had to be a CD and not a DVD and couldn't be USB, etc etc
<Safiyyah237> Yeah I  have been unable to burn Ubuntu since the size grew to DVD size and I do prefer disks to USB....  So Cd not a bad thing. At least there is something that works
<Safiyyah237> Diddledan be back in the evening again for stage two. Please.
<diddledan> http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/steve-wozniak-may-get-his-own-gadget-focused-reality-tv-show-1610819/
<bashrc> more technology speculation. sounds like one to avoid
<diddledan> it's woz, though!
<bashrc> exactly
<davmor2> diddledan: so there is 2 reasons to avoid it :)
<diddledan> >.<
<davmor2> diddledan: add to that the reality bit and I really don't want to know
<diddledan> heh
<diddledan> so linux networking - the linux bonding driver.. can I use that to double my throughput from a gigabit switch into a system with a pair of 10/100 NICs?
<diddledan> i.e. my router is only 10/100 capable but I've got two internet connections dangled on the end which are aggregately more than the 10/100 throughput - so can I connect my lan-side via a bonded pair of 10/100's to allow the router to work at a speed more akin to the pair of internet connections combined?
<diddledan> the load balancing on the internet side is already sorted via openwrt's thingy that does that
<diddledan> (mwan3 according to the ui does the wan load balancing, so I just need the lan-side)
<popey> hey chaps
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/TaoTronics-TT-BS003-Automatic-Sensing-Handheld/dp/B006LVO56W/
<popey> that should work on linux?
<popey> just a keyboard isn't it?
<Daviey> popey: Hai.  I had one of those about 6 years ago.. it was indeed just a keyboard.
<zmoylan-pi> the description mentions keyboard layouts so it's not trying to be fancy by the looks of it
<popey> ta
<Dave2> Operation System May NOT Compatible:
<Dave2> - Blackberry Curves OS system / MacOS X versions
<popey> haha
 * isleofmandan met Mr S today. Nice chap.
<abrams> hello :)
 * DJones pokes Guest44253 with a new nickname
<foobarry> is there an alternative touchpad driver i can use in the kernel?
<foobarry> the one i have is rubbish
<foobarry> GlidePoint Virtual Touchpad as /devices/virtual/input/input14
<foobarry> AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint as /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input16
<foobarry> hmm seem to have found a solution after 6 months of struggle
<diddledan> \o/
<foobarry> got a "new" psmouse-alps driver
<foobarry> not sure what version the old one was
<daftykins> tum te tum
<daftykins> i see i missed our visitor
<foobarry> i hide joins/quits
<daftykins> nah i have highlights from backlog in my away log :>
<diddledan> potentially not safe for children: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skVxj-HYzew
<daftykins> "diddledan: not safe for children" :D
 * diddledan mutters something about shoving family friendly somewhere painful :-p
<diddledan> daftykins, that makes me sound like a predator
<foobarry> got sent to coventry today
<foobarry> attending HPC conf
<diddledan> foobarry, yey?
<foobarry> got a red feodra from redhat :D
<daftykins> diddledan: sorry, chap
<daftykins> you're more of an... opportunist
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> lol
<foobarry> got some stickers for my son
<daftykins> foobarry: did you ask what you're meant to do with it? is it cheap and nasty?
<foobarry> soon he will have ubuntu and cray stickers on his scooter
<foobarry> no, its a nice hat, very nice
<daftykins> ooh
<foobarry> "my other computer is a cray"
<diddledan> my other computer is an abacus
<daftykins> i think they missed a trick there
<daftykins> "my other computer IS cray"
<daftykins> eh? eh?
<diddledan> thas craycray!
<foobarry> got some special beer
<foobarry> 7%
<foobarry> will be giving it to a college
<foobarry> colleague
<diddledan> oh dear, we've turned into teenagers
<daftykins> LOL a college
<daftykins> that's perfect
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> get some special brew, 9% iirc
<daftykins> horrible stuff :P
<foobarry> syrup
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/CFb1m1o.jpg
<daftykins> Skype is shameless on Windows, "make MSN my homepage"
<daftykins> haha, no
<foobarry>  https://twitter.com/SciComp_STFC/status/540094602230136833
<foobarry> these red hats
<diddledan> foobarry, I want one!
<daftykins> wow, that carpet
<diddledan> eek, that carpet
<daftykins> do i see black hats beneath too?
<foobarry> wow i never noticed the carpet
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/SciComp_STFC/status/539394541338755072
<foobarry> better pic
<foobarry> this was at conventry city ground
<foobarry> ah no daftykins they were thsirts
<daftykins> ah ok
<Safiyyah> Daftykins am here....  Are you?
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> slightly merry though :>
<daftykins> so few days for the return huh?
<Safiyyah> Lol more like three weeks
<daftykins> D:
<Safiyyah> I  can't afford not to have a PC for that long
<Safiyyah> So we will have to do what you suggested
<Safiyyah> I  work from home,  and I just finished work 15 minutes ago.  No PC = no money coming in.
<Safiyyah> I  thought it was just gonna be a week at the most.  So I  could use my phone for Skype etc and give excuses.  But that is just too long
<Safiyyah> So do I  need to load a lives session now?
<diddledan> why would you be without a pc?
<diddledan> it's only one of two hdds
<Safiyyah> Lol remember yesterday I had wanted to leave it as it.  Not to mess up the setup?
<Safiyyah> Well I  thought I  would have been better off with the Samsung EVO but turn out not from the earlier conversation.  So looks like it's just your luck with these things
<Safiyyah> Okay it's loading...  Give it a minute
<daftykins> diddledan: need to create a /home on the SSD for /
<daftykins> and adjust mounts
<Safiyyah> Daftykins...  I  need to ascertain that when the replacement drive gets here,  I will just plug it in and come back to reset the /home to the new drive again?
<Safiyyah> I  am online via Web as Safiyyah2
<Safiyyah> Ready!
<Safiyyah2> :
<daftykins> guess i best stop playing games then!
<Safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> so 12.04 booted is it?
<Safiyyah2> yep
<Safiyyah2> am on it
<Safiyyah2> on the web, terminal fired up
<Safiyyah2> I don't know if it is relevant, but my OS is Xubuntu
<daftykins> eww never seen milk form a skin atop tea before o0
<Safiyyah2> lol daftykins.... thats what it's supposed to do. Maybe you drink your tea with lots of water
<daftykins> last time i think we were getting errors from "sudo mount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt"
<Safiyyah2> and this time you put more milk
<Safiyyah2> it is normal
<Safiyyah2> shall I re-run that command?
<daftykins> it was all wrinkled!
<daftykins> yep
<Safiyyah2> daftykins, its meant to wrinkle
<daftykins> with any luck it'll play ball today
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9358354/
<Safiyyah2> Same as last night!!!
<daftykins> oh my word
<daftykins> oh yeah did you run memtest overnight?
<Safiyyah2> yes, no errors were found
<Safiyyah2> it passed
<daftykins> well that's something at least
<Safiyyah2> It looks like I will be having to do a clean install, like it or not :(
<Safiyyah2> and I had everything just right :(
<daftykins> does seem pretty odd that both of these drives are unhappy
<Safiyyah2> you know one suggestion for the software centre is that when you log in, it gives a list for the applications you have downloaded in the past
<diddledan> they're both dead?!
<Safiyyah2> well, this one isn't under Warranty.... it's passed warranty!
<Safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> can do you a "sudo parted -l" and confirm sda1 is ext4?
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9358446/
<Safiyyah2> yes it is ext 4
<daftykins> so the thing is now, we could mess around for an hour or two and maybe still not be the wiser... or you could just clean install atop it
<daftykins> tough call really
<diddledan> have you got another pc you can try the discs in to determine whether the fault is on the ata controller or endemic to the discs themselves?
<daftykins> nope.
<diddledan> dang
<diddledan> this is why pc-kleptomania serves me well
<Safiyyah2> nope
<Safiyyah2> what is the ata controller?
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install smartmontools"
<daftykins> the thing that provides the SATA ports on the motherboard
<daftykins> "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda"
<ahayzen> Hey, folks i'm on utopic and i've been having unity freezing for at least 30s randomly (twice today) and a few other times this week... i just checked dmesg and this is the output http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9358472/ .. does this look bad?
<diddledan> daftykins, that's smart :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: hmm? do shout if you think any of my ideas are silly
<daftykins> i'm a tad tipsy
<diddledan> daftykins, no, I mean checking smartmontools is a smart idea
<diddledan> smart.
<diddledan> </attempted humour>
<Safiyyah2> diddledan So now the issue is whether it's the board/harddrive?
<daftykins> diddledan: ok i did think so, just checking ;)
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: yeah that's diddledan's thinking.
<Safiyyah2> smart tools installed
<Safiyyah2> remember yesterday it refused
<daftykins> yeah that was with the definitely wonky disk connected though
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: maybe after those last two commands it wouldn't hurt to remove the funky power connector you mentioned and just use the SATA power connectors from the PSU direct
<Safiyyah2> hard disk drive prices down by 40% since September (already!!) is this how it goes?
<daftykins> at least i think that's what you mentioned
<diddledan> ahayzen, I'd ubuntu-bug it
<ahayzen> diddledan, ubuntu bug which component? and there is no crash log
<Safiyyah2> daftykins this HDD has regular connectors.
<ahayzen> *crash file
<Safiyyah2> the funky one was with the new drive
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: just to be clear, don't call an SSD an HDD :) it confuses my poor little brain
<Safiyyah2> sorry
<daftykins> :D
<Safiyyah2> this SSD, has normal connectors. one SATA and one power
<daftykins> ahayzen: i spy a Nexus 4 owner, have you put Lollipop on yet? ;) i'm ignoring it for now
<ahayzen> daftykins, ...  Ubuntu Touch  sorry
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> you're brave.
<ahayzen> its my daily phone :)
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: ah ok, i thought you said something about a Y cable of some sort
<ahayzen> and i'm on the proposed channel thats living life on the edge lol
<Safiyyah2> daftykins, yes for the SSD that is dead.
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: did smartctl run?
<daftykins> "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda"
<Safiyyah2> daftykins, I installed the software
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9358541/
<Safiyyah2> :( bad news
<diddledan> I smell a wonky ata chip
<daftykins> what on earth
<daftykins> that's not good, Safiyyah2 only changed motherboard a bit ago
<diddledan> wonky cable?
<daftykins> well i did enquire as to a reseat yesterday
<daftykins> Safiyyah2: haven't got any other SATA cables lying around have you?
<Safiyyah2> i have spare SATA cable
<diddledan> try it
<diddledan> also try different ports on the mobo
<Safiyyah2> okay
<Safiyyah2> gonna power down
<Safiyyah2> am on the phone still
 * diddledan gives daftykins a mobo award
<daftykins> diddledan: will i earn the full set before christmas :(
<daftykins> guess peeps can't come online to have me tell them their PSU is dead ;)
<ahayzen> diddledan, ok so it actually looks a bit like this bug https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64431
<lubotu3> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 64431 in Video(DRI - Intel) "[ivy bridge] intel_crtc_wait_for_pending_flips crash" [Normal,Needinfo]
<diddledan> ahayzen, try filing the issue against "linux"
<diddledan> that does sound related, yes
<ahayzen> diddledan, thanks i'll report a bug anyway :)
<daftykins> mindblowing when even intel drivers aren't stable, to me
<daftykins> ahayzen: is that system76 on the latest BIOS and what not?
<ahayzen> daftykins, erm i haven't flashed the BIOS so its what it came with
<daftykins> have a glance at whether their support page offers any updates, can't hurt to see
<daftykins> i doubt they normally touch intel graphics issues but eh, costs nothing :)
<ahayzen> daftykins, i never had trusty freeze its only recently on utopic it seems to be freezing ... and i have their drivers package installed
<diddledan> I've seen intel employees on the lkml suggesting that something be hacked around in the kernel source because they can't work out how the gfx is supposed to behave
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> that's nasty
 * ahayzen wonders if icedtea-7-plugin or running Firefox nightly is related
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> I mean, intel employees, working on intel-released code for running intel designed chips. and they can't make it work.
<daftykins> all i've seen with utopic is constant upgrade woes :)
<Safiyyah> Moved the cables round and now it won't boot from cd....  It's boots straight onto OS,  which says there is no /home.....  As expected
<Safiyyah> Just gonna check I didn't knock any cables out
<diddledan> surely if it works in windows drivers by intel then there must be a way of getting it to work in linux drivers by intel
<daftykins> unless something in the kernel is *gasp* amiss
<diddledan> in which case fix that rather than disabling the function in the driver which clashes
<Safiyyah> My computer is making some serious noises.....   Dammit!
<diddledan> cable mashing against a fan?
<Safiyyah> Nope
<Safiyyah> But the actual DVD drive sounds like a tractor
<Safiyyah> Am going to restart
<ahayzen> daftykins, diddledan, thanks for your help, i've reported a bug, removed icedtea and i'm going to not run the nightly for a bit to see if that stops the freezes
<Safiyyah> I  just bought that DVD drive
<daftykins> np!
<diddledan> yeah that can't be broken as well as two SSDs
<diddledan> something else is at play here than the discs dying
<Safiyyah> Okay it's stopped the noise
<daftykins> \o/
<Safiyyah> And the disk is loading
<diddledan> mm cookies
<diddledan> mm'fashnik
<Safiyyah> Oh I want junk food diddledan
<Safiyyah> All this stress = time to eat
<diddledan> not muh'fashnik like muh cookies, but mm'fashnik like mm cookies.
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZXNxFAUAaE
<diddledan> \o/ buffy
<Safiyyah> Is it possible for the live disk to hang?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> booting from optical media is so 2004 :(
<Safiyyah> We can remedy that.  I  have Kubuntu 14.04 on my external drive and an available USB stick.  When it loads up again we can make a startup disk
<Safiyyah> We can char 1 sum it
<Safiyyah> Hello!  It's has refused to boot up completely
<daftykins> how rude
<daftykins> err, must we mix ubuntu variants? XD
<daftykins> might as well mooch xubuntu proper ;)
<Safiyyah> Lol its agreed on the fourth attempt let's hope it doesn't hang
<Safiyyah> I  will run the tests again but make the bootable USB as well
<Safiyyah> I  will need help because  it is on an external drive....   I  can never work out the path/ directory for USB drives
<Safiyyah> On the command line
<daftykins> should be pretty graphical these days on plugging it in,i'd have thought
<Safiyyah> It's hang again
<Safiyyah> Okay I have pangolin and hardy
<Safiyyah> Don't know what else to di
<Safiyyah> Okay I  have disks of Oneiric,  natty,  lucid
<Safiyyah> Which knew do you want?
<Safiyyah> And still have fedora
<daftykins> so what's the disk config right now? new cable on the SSD?
<Safiyyah> Yep and moved it to SATA port 4
<daftykins> how many are on the board total, 6?
<Safiyyah> It says i/o error Dev sr0 sector 1287208
<Safiyyah> I have four
<daftykins> do you have a Linux on a flash drive at all at the moment?
<Safiyyah> Nope
<daftykins> so i suppose i'd be tempted to pull the SSD entirely, boot the 12.04 CD then download a 14.04.1 image to your external hard disk
<Safiyyah> Okay
<Safiyyah> Already have 1404 on my external hard disk
<Safiyyah> Just need to get to it
<daftykins> but kubuntu?
<Safiyyah> Yes
<Safiyyah> Kubuntu
<daftykins> hmm, well booting 12.04 seems challenging enough atm
<daftykins> so that's step 1 regardless
<Safiyyah> Am trying one last time
<daftykins> Daft Punk - One More Time <o/ \o>
<Safiyyah> Am inclined to think there is an issue with the board
<Safiyyah> No luck
<Safiyyah> Loading Oneiric
<daftykins> no point trying different versions imo
<Safiyyah> I can't just leave it now
<Safiyyah> I have to try another disk
<Safiyyah> Then and only then will I believe what is happening is happening
<Safiyyah> Sorry
<daftykins> i wonder what tipped it off its' rocker this time
<Safiyyah> Lol its got a mind of its own
<daftykins> oh they all do for certain
<daftykins> isn't it still an old LGA775 setup you're running there? the older intel socket
<Safiyyah> The last system crash I had about 2  and a half year ago was crazy like this as well
<daftykins> :(
<Safiyyah> No idea but it's a dial core 2
<Safiyyah> Dual*
<Safiyyah> Its has four pins with screws on top
<daftykins> intel core 2 duo, yeah sounds like LGA775 then
<daftykins> for the heatsink, yeah pretty standard across many generations
<Safiyyah> Yeah
<Safiyyah> Daftykins if this doesn't work,  as think I have to go to a friends house tomorrow and make a startup  USB,  I  have no further solutions
<Safiyyah> Okay so it logged in and then gave me a black screen.
<daftykins> had you posted off the other SSD yet?
<Safiyyah> NO
<daftykins> i'd probably get them tested elsewhere, in a shop if need be
<Safiyyah> Something is happening....  Purple screen is up...  Hopefully the menu shows
<Safiyyah> Both of them?
<Safiyyah> Which shoo does that....  PC world.
<diddledan> wow, wikipedia went for "in your face" donation requests!
<daftykins> Safiyyah: yeah, just work your charm on any staff :P
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> Hardly would work
<daftykins> though they may need to be warned not to look for NTFS as if it were Windows
<diddledan> daftykins, that's n0rty!
<daftykins> diddledan: oh dear that time again? :(
<Safiyyah> Lol
<Safiyyah> Erm.  I  think the board is dead
<Safiyyah> Personally
<Safiyyah> How about powering down and putting everything back in its original socket?
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt, yeah
<Safiyyah> Okay
<daftykins> definitely seen enough errors so far to see the kernel crying away trying to use most things
<daftykins> Safiyyah: in fact i have a slight plan O_.
<daftykins> i figure the install on that SSD is going to freeze up still, but it might be worth trying
<Safiyyah> I have given up Daftykins
<Safiyyah> I  think now it's a case of get the USB done......  Test the hard disk.  Prepare to buy a new board and possibly HDD
<Safiyyah> Okay we are up and running
<Safiyyah> So moving the main drive to SATA 4 is what caused the problem
<daftykins> bit weird
<Safiyyah> Okay got my external drive and USB stick plugged in
<daftykins> what's booted?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-04
<Safiyyah> pangolin
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> should be a graphical way you can spot your external and mount it
<daftykins> a pastebin of "sudo fdisk -l" to spot the flash drive will be handy too
<Safiyyah> Firefox is freezing
<Safiyyah> It's /dev/sdc1
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359360/
<Safiyyah2> sorry it's decided to work as long as I don't right click
<Safiyyah2> (firefox I mean)
<Safiyyah> Dobt I  just need the start up disk creator?
<Safiyyah> Just select the file and do it?
<daftykins> use dd
<Safiyyah> do?
<Safiyyah> Do?
<daftykins> sudo dd if=/path/to/ISO of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
<Safiyyah2> yes what is the path to my external?
<daftykins> type "mount" and it might give some clues
<daftykins> or df -h
<Safiyyah2> okay I can't do cd /dev/sdb1
<Safiyyah2> can I copy the files onto the desktop graphically?
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359400/
<daftykins> /media/Expansion Drive
<daftykins> it's already mounted
<daftykins> you can't copy things to the desktop 'cause the desktop has no space :D
<Safiyyah> Cd /media /Expansion Drive also doesn't work
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359426/
<daftykins> because you have spaces
<daftykins> that was a very bad name for a drive ;)
<daftykins> use tab complete
<diddledan> I thought ubuntu tracked upstream with firefox versions? i.e. new firefox gets bundled as an update in supported ubuntu
<daftykins> e.g. "cd /media/E *tab*
<Safiyyah2> anyway the directory is /media/Expansion Drive/Backup 2 October 2014/Downloads/xubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64
<diddledan> just curio because I have 33 and mozilla have released 34 already
<Safiyyah2> daftykins, we can change the name lol
<diddledan> aah, I had stale apt cache
<daftykins> one job at a time please ;)
<Safiyyah2> :)
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359484/
<Safiyyah2> it's in Backup 2 October 2014/Downloads
<Safiyyah2> same problem with the spaces but there is more than one file starting with Backup
<daftykins> are you not ok using tabs to complete your paths still?
<Safiyyah2> lol
<Safiyyah2> yep
<Safiyyah2> not okay
<Safiyyah2> am sorry
<daftykins> cd /media/Expansion\ Drive/Backup\ 2 *tab*
<daftykins> ?
<Safiyyah2> when I press tab
<Safiyyah2> it just re-lists the directories
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359524/
<Safiyyah2> When I pressed tab it gave me a list
<diddledan> don't add a space on the end after "2"
<diddledan> type exactly ...."Backup\ 2[tab]"
<diddledan> where [tab] is the tab button
<Safiyyah2> okay we are in the directory
<Safiyyah2> sorry about no getting it
<Safiyyah2> am in!!!! now what.... something about dd?
<Safiyyah2> excuse me but it's late and I can't spell
<Safiyyah2> daftykins:  did you drop off to sleep at your desk
<daftykins> nop
<daftykins> i'm just gaming
<daftykins> sudo dd if=/path/to/ISO of=/dev/sdc bs=2M
<daftykins> would've been easier for you to scroll up :P
<Safiyyah2> lol
<Safiyyah2> brain died
<daftykins> ;]
<Safiyyah2> terminal is still at it
<Safiyyah2> or it has hang
<Safiyyah2> whichever one
<Safiyyah2> daftykins:  here is the output http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359680/
<daftykins> 271MB is way too tiny for an ISO
<daftykins> i don't think that's a complete download
<Safiyyah2> the download itself is  970 something
<Safiyyah2> its complete.
<Safiyyah2> I char1 summed it
<daftykins> but the paste there says it wrote 270MB
<Safiyyah2> the terminal didnt finish copying
<Safiyyah2> let me rerun the command and exercise better patience
<daftykins> oh yes you ctrl+C'd
<daftykins> that's a BAD Safiyyah
<daftykins> yo might be able to check progress with "sudo killall -USR1 dd" in a second terminal window
<Safiyyah2> daftykins: didnt meant to I was trying to copy it into paste bin for you
<Safiyyah2> cos I was wasnt sure it was hanging or not
<Safiyyah2> anyway it has finished again
<daftykins> ah i see
<Safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9359943/
<Safiyyah2> it finished
<Safiyyah2> took it a minute
<daftykins> 858 seconds!
<Safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> that's one slow flash drive
<Safiyyah2> well it can be dedicated to the job
<Safiyyah2> and I won't miss it
<Safiyyah2> right do we check the data first with char1sum or that's it?
<Safiyyah2> Atleast we now have a USB
<daftykins> just try booting it
<Safiyyah2> cool
<daftykins> and get that nasty CD/DVD out :>
<Safiyyah2> lol
<Safiyyah2> yes sir!!!!
<safiyyah2> daftykins: am back
<safiyyah2> my that loaded FAST!
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> yesh, CD/DVD are just not even options to me nowadays ;) life is too short
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> point clearly understood now!!!!! will always have a USB now
<safiyyah2> right what now
<safiyyah2> dmesg |tail?
<safiyyah2> fdisk -l?
<daftykins> well now we have a real version
<daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit"
<daftykins> oh and smartmontools
<daftykins> "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit smartmontools"
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360080/
<safiyyah2> done!
<safiyyah2> It's like a different machine!!!
<safiyyah2> wondering about the so called dead drive now
<diddledan> o_O /dev/sdc1p1 ??
<daftykins> yeah i don't even
<daftykins> safiyyah2: "sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
<diddledan> did you dd to sdc1 instead of sdc?
<daftykins> wouldn't have booted if that were true
<diddledan> how else would sdc1 contain a partition table?
<safiyyah2> wasn't sdc1 the external drive?
<safiyyah2> daftykins:  the terminal is working on that last command
<daftykins> o0
<safiyyah2> lol
<diddledan> sdc1 is a partition on sdc. sdc is the external drive.
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360123/
<safiyyah2> Same story though
<daftykins> less errors though
<daftykins> that's a different output
<diddledan> try fsck
<safiyyah2> diddledan: am a novice
<safiyyah2> need the whole command
<safiyyah2> and am tired. brain isnt at its best
<diddledan> fsck /dev/sda1
<daftykins> ^
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360151/
<safiyyah2> I have gone to the bathroom for a few
<daftykins> still a very unhappy disk
<daftykins> diddledan: i don't even think attempting to pick a backup superblock is worth the hassle?
<diddledan> nah, I've never had much luck with doing that anyway
<daftykins> ah i got someone going again with one once in #ubuntu
<daftykins> but then this thing only holds her OS + installed software, so might as well nuke it really
<daftykins> doesn't resolve what made it go wonky mind
<safiyyah2> okay am back
<safiyyah2> is it possible there is nothing wrong with my other SSD?
<safiyyah2> just an unhappy arrangement?
<safiyyah2> and are you satisfied it's not the board?
<daftykins> well you don't have anything else to test with
<daftykins> we've been flying blind since the beginning
<safiyyah2> but according t the messages doesn't it mean the Corsair is also dead?
<daftykins> think of it like two people talking
<daftykins> one of them has just had a stroke, we're trying to have a conversation
<safiyyah2> so who has had the stroke
<daftykins> how do we know which one has had the stroke? communication's still failing and that's our only point of reference
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> WE CANT FIND OUT
<safiyyah2> the Corsair or the SanDisk?
<daftykins> because you only have one PC :P
<safiyyah2> lol
<diddledan> daftykins, ask the other guy what you would say was the way to certain death
<diddledan> or is that a different riddle?
<safiyyah2> why can't we replug the SanDisk and rerun the live USB?
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> what would be the point?
<daftykins> there's only static data on that, not gonna find anything new out
<safiyyah2> ah
<safiyyah2> so now. Do I do a fresh install on the corsair?
<safiyyah2> Or give up and buy a new SSD?
<daftykins> yep could try a clean install, see if it will function
<daftykins> that would be the very quickest approach
<safiyyah2> yes but then die again
<safiyyah2> in a few weeks
<daftykins> maybe, but you have no other option
<safiyyah2> until the new disk arrives?
<daftykins> no you have no other option at all
<safiyyah2> there is a third option..... just buy a new drive again
<daftykins> since we can't know where the fault is without trying both those SSDs in another system
<daftykins> nah that'd be foolish
<safiyyah2> respectfully, I feel like this method makes me a sitting duck
<safiyyah2> new SSD feels like I am taking my chances
<daftykins> and it could still be a faulty motherboard so you'd be however much Â£ in the hole with no solution
<safiyyah2> So basically just get the system going again and wait?
<daftykins> yeah, run the install on the existing SSD right now
<daftykins> see if it functions
<daftykins> maybe it'll not even install without spamming errors
<safiyyah2> I think the install will go through
<diddledan> don't think, do
<safiyyah2> okay, I will do that
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> am still on the and chat on the phone
<safiyyah2> closing this to insall
<Safiyyah> Daftykins it say input out error on /dev/sda
<daftykins> mmmhmm
<Safiyyah> This is in the bit where you set the time zone
<daftykins> i'd imagine "dmesg | tail" shows the kernel is screaming again
<Safiyyah> Shall I run it?
<daftykins> yarr
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360367/
<safiyyah2> daftykins:
<daftykins> yep i'm lookin'
<daftykins> is the install actually getting any further?
<safiyyah2> it asked me if i want to ignore or continue
<safiyyah2> left it like that
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> ok so it's kinda paused
<safiyyah2> yep
<daftykins> i'd install smartmontools and try a "sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | pastebinit"
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360457/
<safiyyah2> daftykins:  this is mind boggling
<daftykins> heh 600PB thing again
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> so is it possible that this old drive is the fauty one.... not the new one?
<daftykins> yeah these disks really need testing on another machine to know which end is at fault
<daftykins> your machine obviously doesn't want anything to do with them anymore
<safiyyah2> well right now only the 60gb corsair  is in
<safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> you can swap, pull out your external too
<daftykins> boot the flash drive with just the sandisk
<safiyyah2> its a divorce
<safiyyah2> okay brb
<intrbiz> what is the machine? what SATA controller?
<daftykins> old LGA775 board likely so maybe a P35 chipset or similar
<safiyyah2> a back!!!
<daftykins> D:
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360602/
<safiyyah2> daftykins: I still can't get over how quick it is
<daftykins> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install pastebinit smartmontools
<daftykins> sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda | pastebinit
<safiyyah2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9360630/
<daftykins> well well, that one seems to be playing ball
<daftykins> so maybe it was the Corsair all along
<safiyyah2> wow!!!!
<safiyyah2> Oh wow!!!!
<daftykins> so you could backup properly now
<daftykins> the whole lot
<daftykins> or clean install to the sandisk
<safiyyah2> please dont laugh at my question, but remember HDD has jumpers. so you set one slave am wondering if  they both thought they were master?
<daftykins> no such thing with SATA
<daftykins> one device per cable, no such confusion :)
<safiyyah2> okay
<safiyyah2> well my home drive is in there if I can back it up in it's entirity am good
<safiyyah2> I was avoiding a clean install because I had all the apps I wanted for the kids
<safiyyah2> can't remember half of them now
<safiyyah2> and the damned printer
<daftykins> mmhmm
<safiyyah2> never mind will just start again
<daftykins> and the fun with X
<safiyyah2> yes
<safiyyah2> I had JUST JUST right
<daftykins> meh, shit happens :P
<safiyyah2> lol
<daftykins> or the version i quite like, life happens
<safiyyah2> okay so I had the idea that having a seperate home drive was best
<safiyyah2> that blew up in my face
<safiyyah2> is there any point buying a new, root drive?
<daftykins> it's always better having multiple disks
<safiyyah2> shouldn't I just partition the one drive and be over it?
<daftykins> i wouldn't have gone pure SSD though personally
<safiyyah2> even after this bad experience?
<daftykins> your failure has had nothing to do with how many disks you have
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> but let's not think too far ahead... you still need to confirm whether this one is going to operate ok
<safiyyah2> lol my HDD died 2 years ago... could only afford a 60GB SSD and then now I wanted more space so got another SSD
<safiyyah2> happened unintentionally
<daftykins> you could've had 2TB mechanical for Â£60
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> sooo.... backup or install?
<daftykins> also it's gone 2am :D
<safiyyah2> someone on herewas banging on about stability of SSD
<daftykins> well you bought some pretty shit brands :P
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> SanDisk is shit?
<daftykins> only SSDs i've seen from them have been terrible slow performers
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> well you know I have amazon prime
<safiyyah2> and I dont really need a whole TB
<safiyyah2> I can order and it will be here tomorrow
<m0nkey_> i got some cheap ass sandisk, performance is good on it
<daftykins> well, you know how useful one example is? ;)
<safiyyah2> okay do I get a second drive or not?
<daftykins> so i take it you're not wanting to install to this sandisk? :P
<safiyyah2> i dont mind
<safiyyah2> just wondering if I am buying a drive or not
<daftykins> not until you know if this one will play along
<safiyyah2> and also, I need the firefox bookmarks as well before we wipe it
<safiyyah2> I forgot that yesterday
<safiyyah2> also, do I set a /home partion or leave it to run as default?
<daftykins> lets see if it'll mount
<daftykins> "sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt"
<safiyyah2> yes it's mounted
<daftykins> so you could copy the whole lot onto your external
<safiyyah2> dont need the whole 170gb of data
<safiyyah2> I already backed up a month ago
<daftykins> ah
<safiyyah2> I already took the files I needed
<daftykins> so just bookmarks then?
<safiyyah2> yes please
<daftykins> i don't have a clue where those are stored
<daftykins> maybe .config/mozilla/
<daftykins> total guess
<safiyyah2> in the hidden folder in /home
<daftykins> yeah there are multiple places these days though
<safiyyah2> hmmm
<daftykins>  /home/.mozilla might be one
<safiyyah2> I need a superuser nautilus or nemo
<daftykins> must you do things GUI ;_;
<daftykins> ho-hum :P
<safiyyah2> lol
<safiyyah2> well its the quickest way to locate the actual file
<daftykins> for some perhaps :>
<daftykins> well, whichever method works
<daftykins> i think xubuntu gives a run dialogue with alt+F2? might have to install gksu though
<safiyyah2> i installed gksu
<safiyyah2> but I think there is no nautilus?
<daftykins> nah i think it's thunar on xu
<safiyyah2> :)
<safiyyah2> I dont know why I was thinking it was nemo
<daftykins> i think that's an alternative
<safiyyah2> Okay I got them
<safiyyah2> am ready!
<safiyyah2> so am I making a /home partition
<safiyyah2> The OS needs only about 15gb right?
<daftykins> can do, yeah... or you could install all as one, then if it works... when you buy another disk you can just move your /home onto there
<safiyyah2> are you saying you can't move your /home if you partition the drive?
<daftykins> you could, but then you'd have to mess around with resizing / to get it to fill that disk again
<daftykins> basically, i'm saying install the OS to test if it works
<daftykins> so there's no point planning for forever, right now
<safiyyah2> okay
<safiyyah2> thanks for pointing that out
<daftykins> ;)
<safiyyah2> getting on with the install
<safiyyah2> back on the phone
<daftykins> is it done yet!?
 * daftykins nudges Safiyyah 
<Safiyyah> No
<daftykins> whaaaaat
<daftykins> USB to SSD installs are meant to be lightning quick :>
<Safiyyah> It is about  90â° according to the strip that goes across
<Safiyyah> Remember you said it was shit and slow maybe it heard you hehe
<daftykins> 8D
<Safiyyah> It is still quicker than.  The standard Ubuntu
<Safiyyah> That took me ages
<Safiyyah> And then it was bloated.  That's why I  switched to Xubuntu
<daftykins> it is a bit
<daftykins> but you are using a fairly old machine too :>
<Safiyyah2> daftykins all done
<Safiyyah2> and am in it now. all booted up
<Safiyyah2> Installing updates
<daftykins> yay
<Safiyyah> Is there a next step....  Other than actually setting the system up...
<Safiyyah> We can't dmesg it now can we?
<daftykins> nah just watch dmesg | tail whilst installing updates, could be useful
<Safiyyah> Okay just leave it running on the terminal
<Safiyyah> ?
<daftykins> nah it's a one time command
<Safiyyah2> Where is the pipe key on the UK keyboard?
<Safiyyah2> I have a multi-lingual keyboard
<Safiyyah2> and I always set it to UK but that means some keys don't follow
<daftykins> left shift and the \ beside it
<daftykins> |||
<Safiyyah2> nope nothing there
<Safiyyah2> Unless I leave it as US
<Safiyyah2> but then there won't be a Â£ sign
<Safiyyah2> 40% of update done
<Safiyyah2_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9361314/
<Safiyyah2_> daftykins:  output of dmesg
<daftykins> ah usual wrong screen res fun
<daftykins> nothing much going on yep
<Safiyyah2_> will sort out the resolution tomorrow
<Safiyyah2_> am knackered
<Safiyyah2_> it seems happy?
<daftykins> could well be
<Safiyyah2_> you are good at avoiding difinitive answers
<daftykins> so time to return the corsair instead and maybe get something else
<daftykins> so is your system
<Safiyyah2_> lol Corsair two years old
<Safiyyah2_> i think it's past warranty
<Safiyyah2_> I will keep my money thanks
<daftykins> wouldn't hurt to check
<Safiyyah2_> lol
<Safiyyah2_> will check with them.
<daftykins> might just need a serial number from it put into their website
<Safiyyah2_> am so. so . sooooooo grateful
<Safiyyah2_> thank you so much
<Safiyyah2_> atleast it's working again
<Safiyyah2_> will sort the rest out in order of urgency
<Safiyyah2_> lol
<Safiyyah2_> so there is nothing wrong with my Sandisk drive?
<daftykins> based on what has been done so far, it has been working
<daftykins> but life isn't this black and white
<Safiyyah2_> so cancel the return?
<daftykins> for the time being, yep
<Safiyyah2_> cool
<daftykins> but it doesn't mean it's perfect
<daftykins> you're after concrete answers which really don't happen in the hardware world
<Safiyyah2_> off to bed. Still have to get up for the school run tomorrow and work
<Safiyyah2_> I just want to know that as far as things stand, it's all sorted
<Safiyyah2_> if it breaks again that's another issue
<Safiyyah2_> but as of now, is it healthy?
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i don't want to comment any further, you're after things i can't provide
<daftykins> just see how it goes
<Safiyyah2_> lol
<Safiyyah2_> you should be a politician
<Safiyyah2_> lol
<Safiyyah2_> night night
<mapps> seesh
<mapps> dont think i can save everyone
<mapps> met a girl tonight thats got as many problems as me
<mapps> but a way worse job and no money
 * mapps cant help himself ....how can i help anyone else
<zmoylan-pi> you're forgetting callahans law.  shared pain lessens shared joy increases
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy dipli
<MooDoo> doh too early
<diplo> hah
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cookie Day! :-D
 * davmor2 eats all the Cookies now it is happy belly day :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, World Wildlife Conservation Day? You're wild life, aren't you? :-P
 * zmoylan-pi swings across channel on handy vine
<davmor2> JamesTait: I already Fund people looking after tigers and reintegrating them into the wild :)
<JamesTait> I just look after mini tigers. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://plus.google.com/photos?pid=5479982879927839602&oid=104244164525559506101
<popey> rwar!
<JamesTait> davmor2, I think I recognise him!
<davmor2> JamesTait: been to India Recently?
<JamesTait> davmor2, ah, no - must have been his South African cousin.
<davmor2> JamesTait: Africa is Lion you muppet ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, this is not a lion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamestait0/15918390796/
<JamesTait> davmor2, this is a lion (and a lioness): https://www.flickr.com/photos/jamestait0/15321948254/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: first one is a lion in stripy pyjamas you can't blag my head ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, heheh. :) Stripey pyjama cat?
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> moring JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: Straight from the mouth of a meerkat so it must true right?
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> is there a way to know the port number from process id?
<diplo> I think you can get that via netstat
<diplo>  -p | grep the PID ?
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> diplo: -p says program name as per man ps
<kaushal> diplo: please correct me if i am wrong in interpreting it
<kaushal> I did netstat -p | grep 22422
<diplo> Says in man that it shows the Program name and the PID
<kaushal> udp        0      0 localhost.localdomain:42599 localhost.localdomain:42599 ESTABLISHED 22422/postmaster
<kaushal> diplo: i am interested to know the port number
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diplo> I'm not a great netstat user but looks like netstat -apt | grep PID ?
<xplora1a> add a -n to the netstat for faster responce
<diplo> Worked here kaushal
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> xplora1a: is it nestat -aptn | grep PID?
<kaushal> i mean netstat*
<kaushal> netstat -aptn | grep PID?
<xplora1a> yes, the -n stops netstat doing a revers dns on every IP address
<kaushal> xplora1a: ok
<kaushal> what dos -a -p and -t options for?
<kaushal> is -t meant for tcp?
<xplora1a> -p is the PID/program name -t TCP only
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> xplora1a: Thanks
<kaushal> diplo: thanks
<xplora1a> cah
<kaushal> xplora1a: if i do netstat -aptn | grep 22761
<kaushal> i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/9365914/
<xplora1a> -a, --all
<xplora1a>        Show both listening and non-listening sockets.  With  the  --interfaces
<xplora1a>        option, show interfaces that are not up
<kaushal> what does :::1103 and :::*  mean
<kaushal> can i get the field header name?
<kaushal> for tcp        0      0 :::1103                     :::*                        LISTEN      22761/java
<xplora1a> those are listern ports so anything can connect to those ports. but if there werer established connections to those ports they would be seperatly listed
<kaushal> xplora1a: ok
<xplora1a> :::1103 is an IPv6 address
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> xplora1a: one last question
<xplora1a> ok
<kaushal> how do i include header meaning column name
<kaushal> in netstat -aptn | grep PID
<xplora1a> not sure, have a look through man netstat
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> netstat -an | head gives me the desired output
<kaushal> but when i do netstat -an | head | grep 22761
<kaushal> it returns nothing
<kaushal> I know i am doing something wrong
 * popey boggles that this thing has hit 12KUSD https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ubutab-a-1tb-ubuntu-tablet-for-media-lovers
<bigcalm> popey: worth while?
<ali1234> well the really odd thing about that is they only want 36k
<popey> yeah, can't see how it's viable
<ali1234> that doesn't seem like enough for a production run, unless it's basically an existing tablet
<diddledan> morning
<bigcalm> Spinning rust in a tablet, wonder how long that will last
<popey> like spinning rust in a laptop?
<ali1234> not really. nobody actually uses a laptop on their lap
<popey> nobody uses a tablet on their lap either :D
<ali1234> yeah they hold it constantly
<bigcalm> popey: I think that a tablet might be treated with a little less care than a laptop
<ali1234> which means lots of shaking
<popey> sure ã
<ali1234> and laptop hard drives tend to die already
<diddledan> I think it's on indiegogo rather than kickstarter because kickstarter would require proven prototypes before listing it
<diddledan> indiegogo doesn't vet things so thoroughly
<ali1234> they also require it's not just some existing peice of hardware that you are reselling
<diddledan> good point
<ali1234> anyway, i'd rather have a 256GB SSD in such a tablet. would be about the same price.
<popey> wonder if anyone will ever get their device
<diddledan> they must be reselling someone else's hardware to be able to deliver by their anticipated April deadline
<m0nkey_> If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
<m0nkey_> Nice concept, but would need to see a working model.
<ali1234> the "hardware partner" is named on the comments page
<ali1234> i like this comment: "Would much rather have a tablet running Ubuntu, so much more available as far as programs for the work I do."
<ali1234> people still think convergence means "can run desktop software on phones"
<ali1234> rather than "can run phone apps on the desktop"
<awilkins> ARRGH another one of those websites that locks up my WHOLE BROWSER
<awilkins> http://t.co/rqISLVSza3 << anyone else want to test?
<awilkins> Makes Firefox grey out
<awilkins> (mildly NSFW as it has a picture of a lady with lasers aimed at her groinal area)
<diddledan> awilkins, love the picture
<daftykins> maybe it's best you don't see it ;)
<diddledan> now I'm wondering what made awilkins search for vaginal atrophy
<awilkins> It was in my twitter feed
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yey for the twits
<davmor2> awilkins: again why did you look?
<awilkins> Tweet was : Career milestone achieved: [X] Write up a news story that demands a header image of lasers shooting out of a vagina.
<davmor2> awilkins: and again you thought that's something I need to view ;)
<daftykins> XD
<awilkins> Shared it because of the annoying browser lockup thing
<awilkins> Keeps happening to me recently, convinced it's to do with some of these evil clickbait things
<diddledan> works fine in chromeland
<diddledan> so the new 007/bond movie is to be called "spectre"
<davmor2> awilkins: works fine but slowly in firefox. It is really slow to scroll though
<awilkins> Yeah, the slow scrolling is a symptom too
<daftykins> i like the progress bar shading in the bit on the right as you read through
<foobarry> fire at hermes
<foobarry> also, who has done RHCSA or RHCE lately?
<diddledan> foobarry, where's hermes?
<diddledan> aah it's an american parcel co?
<foobarry>  Yesterday evening, Wednesday 3rd December we experienced a fire at our key hub in Warrington, causing significant damage to our main sorter. We would like to assure you that no one was injured in the fire an
<foobarry> "no parcels have been damaged."
<foobarry> With immediate effect we have activated a new central hub at Bradford to process extra volumes and are evaluating other potential sites today to provide additional support.
<diddledan> aah, warrington, not washington >.<
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> well that was stinky
<mapps> 2 iphone charging cables
<mapps> bought them off amazon unofficial few quid each
<mapps> neither work..used them once
<foobarry> blew up your house?
<mapps> nah
<mapps> just nothing happens when i plug phone in to them
<daftykins> mapps: lightning?
<mapps> ya
<daftykins> mmm you can't really go cheap on those :(
<mapps> why?
<Myrtti> they're either licensed or they don't work
<foobarry> heh
<Myrtti> and the license cost
<Myrtti> s
<mapps> they worked at first tho
<foobarry> lightning never strikes twice
<foobarry> or always...
<foobarry> i never remember
<diddledan> mapps, they're required to have a chip in them and the iphone will kill any that are using a dodgy or no license
<diddledan> IIRC
<diddledan> and IANAL
<daftykins> that's a really unfortunate acronym
<diddledan> daftykins, for you maybe ;-)
<diddledan> teehee
<daftykins> diddledan: i thought that assistance would never end last night ;)
<diddledan> heh, I went to bed
<daftykins> she was demanding i state whether it was working or not, solely from one install and dmesg staying relatively quiet
<daftykins> i think i need a Scottie reference here somewhere
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> scottie ftw
<diddledan> "I've given you all I've got"
<daftykins> i liked a cartoon parody i saw the other day
<daftykins> constant interruptions to Kirk over the radio, Scottie saying "uuuh, you're not gonnae believe this cap'n, but whenever i say i'm giving it all she's got... i've only just seen the lever goes another 1/3rd up - so i literally CAN make us go faster"
<daftykins> "given most of the drama we're in could be evaded by going just a little bit faster, i'd like to apologies Cap'n for putting us in harms way so often"
<diddledan> it's the rocker's method of going "1 faster"
 * popey points everyone at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2014-December/038109.html
 * popey hopes some people reply at some point â»
<daftykins> a support event could be fun!
<diddledan> hmm, do I need chocolate or not?
<diddledan> it does sound like a good idea
<diddledan> got 30 minutes before the shop closes
<daftykins> you ALWAYS need chocolate, diddledan
<diddledan> yeah, that's what I was thinking
<daftykins> i polished off a galaxy bar of ~112g last night to recover from support giving
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> brb. shop time.
<daftykins> i like the message from the chap about old PCs, Pentium D his daily driver? poor chap
 * diddledan sent a commandline love command to uupc \o/
<popey> I think we've done that one
<diddledan> awww
<popey> hmm, maybe not
<popey> just went back through many
<diddledan> ok, I want a 3d printer now: http://www.geek.com/geek-cetera/you-can-3d-print-your-very-own-moving-stargate-1610922/
<daftykins> surely you mean the temporary use of one, forget ownership ;)
<zmoylan-pi> once you have access to one and know the formula for stargate addresses....
<shauno> gotta admit that's one thing I don't see the appeal of
<daftykins> shauno: 3D printers in general?
<shauno> from the few people I've talked to who have one, it seems half the fun is getting it working.  and the other half is fixing it
<diddledan> shauno, a stargate or a 3d printer?
<daftykins> yeah definitely
<daftykins> remember those HP TouchPad tablets? i'm wiping mine ahead of popping it on ebay
<daftykins> just had to interact with good ol' WebOS briefly, what a classic :D
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> I made a noise that shouldn't come out of a beardy hippy bloke: http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi2621615897/
<dogmatic69> anyone know of a mouse button 'debounce' setting?
<dogmatic69> 1/2 of clicks are now double clicks some how
<intrbiz> if your using KDE, you can set the double click interval
<daftykins> tried another mouse?
<dogmatic69> just boring old 14.something
<dogmatic69> unity I guess
<daftykins> plug something else in just to be sure, had someone with a mouse that'd given up on life the other day
<dogmatic69> it is well used, probably 6 years old...
<dogmatic69> with around 2 years of MC
<daftykins> 2 years in a motorcycle club, that's a fine mouse
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> mine craft...
<daftykins> aaaaaaah
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-05
<diddledan> -_-
<daftykins> diddledan: sup sir?
 * zmoylan-pi ponders trying to get a gang together to go and see 2001 in cinema...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: o rly, could be a fun jaunt if the audio is good quality
<daftykins> and not that ricer cinema experience of BOOM BOOM is best
<zmoylan-pi> cinema near me playing it is art house cinema and not chain turn volume to 11 megachain
<daftykins> ah-har :D
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<daftykins> <ebay> Congratulations on your move to Guernsey!
<diddledan> allo m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> work gave me a laptop. locked down windows 7.
<diddledan> ouch
<m0nkey_> no choice but cygwin
<diddledan> heh, nice bypass there
<m0nkey_> at least i can have all my common tools, install X if I need it
<zmoylan-pi> boot off usb or sd card?
<m0nkey_> wouldn't be surprised if that's blocked
<zmoylan-pi> probably but sometimes missed by less smart i.t. departments, sometimes deliberatly
<m0nkey_> it's not bad form factor. some HP thing, 13"
<m0nkey_> i5, 8GB RAM
<m0nkey_> heh
<m0nkey_> I had a 16GB sandisk fit, a tiny USB I could have plugged in all the time
<m0nkey_> *have
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> add a path to a bunch of noinstall apps on that and you're covered
<m0nkey_> :)
<m0nkey_> I'll probably get IT to install vmware or virtualbox or something.
<m0nkey_> considering i'm going to be doing some python, perl, php coding for linux boxes, i need a test environment :)
<daftykins> does it have an optical drive?
<m0nkey_> nope
<m0nkey_> it's a 13" notebook thing
<daftykins> meh my 11" has one ;)
<m0nkey_> This is it.. http://www8.hp.com/ca/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=5405376
<diddledan> I've got a floppy
<daftykins> diddledan: family friendly!
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> Was about to counter that what they call floppy disks in south africa.. lol
<daftykins> O_O do tell?
<diddledan> ask sabdfl
<m0nkey_> stiffy disk
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> o_O
<m0nkey_> look it up, tis true.
<diddledan> is this because they never had anything larger than the 3.5inchers?
 * m0nkey_ groans
<daftykins> this is why we can't take him anywhere
<m0nkey_> What the heck is a SE SSD?
<daftykins> s...econd edition? :D
<m0nkey_> Does that mean self encrypted?
<diddledan> second edition
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> yeah, self encryption.
<m0nkey_> thats what this thing has
<m0nkey_> so yeah.. ssd is encrypted
<daftykins> did you say windows 7 though?
<diddledan> I don't get how that helps. it's only encrypted until you try to use it?
<m0nkey_> yeah, win 7 enterprise
<diddledan> where is the key stored?
<m0nkey_> it's got a TPM
<diddledan> hmm
<m0nkey_> so in that, i guess
<m0nkey_> i dunno
<daftykins> i'd bet it has no CoA sticker on - but that it has a win8 key embedded in the EFI
<m0nkey_> i didn't set this thing on it
<m0nkey_> no COA
<m0nkey_> heh, if it does, could come in useful :)
<daftykins> if you're ever mad enough to use 8 D:
<daftykins> i put the Â£25 upgrade on my windows 7 Asus, i hadn't seen BSODs in years
<m0nkey_> got 8.1 on the gaming rig, seems perfectly usable.
<daftykins> no idea why it doesn't agree with my Asus o0
<m0nkey_> finally, i'll soon be able to use my phone to buy stuff.. http://mobilesyrup.com/2014/12/04/paypal-one-touch-rolling-out-to-canada-today/
<daftykins> i'm not entirely... trusting of paypal
<m0nkey_> I've not had any run ins with paypal
<m0nkey_> even when i moved from UK to Canada, they were one of the few companies to allow me to change to a Canadian address without having to create a new account
<daftykins> ah ok
<m0nkey_> microsoft, when i tried to move my xbox live account. they wouldn't allow it.
<daftykins> at the same time as changing your pass post-hack? ;)
<m0nkey_> :)
<diddledan> "It seems Schimmelpenninck, during a performance in Birmingham, England, was hit in the scrotum by a streamer cannon, rupturing one the bassistâs testicles onstage."
<diddledan> sounds fun
<diddledan> (ref: http://ultimateclassicrock.com/delain-ruptured-testicle/)
<daftykins> i'll bet his penninck Schimmel'd
<mapps> hi alll
<daftykins> what-o, mapps i'm about to go!
<daftykins> it's like a shift change
<mapps> heh
<mapps> just got home from work
<mapps> watch rest of arrow then sleep time for me
<daftykins> :>
<mapps> what time do u get up daftykins  with your odd hours;p
<daftykins> i don't even know
<daftykins> i'm all over the shop, me
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> right gotta sleep
<daftykins> laters \o
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> Quiet in here a lot recently :)
<MooDoo> yeah i've noticed that
<popey> well...
<diplo> Cheapest place to get spinning rust, I was hoping prices may have dropped a bit but they haven't and my drive is getting worse
<diplo> And a question for you bods :)
<diplo> With things like BTRFS or ZFS, is there a way of using different sized drives in any sort of array of drives ?
<popey> btrfs can use differing sized disks, yes
<popey> dunno about zfs, never used it
<diplo> I did think I heard you say that
<diplo> Did you ever blog about your setup popey ?
<popey> yeah, google popey btrfs
<popey> but my blog is down at the moment
<diplo> Basically what I'd like to do as money is rather tight and it's Xmas that I buy 1 x 4tb drive and use an existing 2tb drive and add a few other drives as I get the money
<diplo> ut oh, you broke it ?
<diplo> Cached FTW :)
<popey> â»
<popey> yeah, i have 12x2TB in mine
<diplo> I do wish I had some more cash and just buy 3 x 4tb but I need a car more than hdd's
<diplo> :)
<popey> well you don't need to buy 3 right away, do you?
<popey> you could buy one, and re-use the 2TB drive
<diplo> Nope, that's why I want to add
<popey> then add disks as the money is available
<diplo> yeah I have a raid 0 ( dont ask me why I did that?!?!?! ) with 1 disk failing
<popey> eek
<popey> mine is currently doing a btrfs balance
<diplo> I think I was expecting to buy a load of disks after my first play and then divorce etc happened and for the last 4 years it's been fine
<popey> 1646 out of about 8648 chunks balanced (1647 considered),  81% left
<popey> chug chug chug
<popey> yeah, you don't need a load of disks really, just one ã
<popey> that balance has been running for a few days, got maybe 2 more weeks to go
<diplo> So should I go gren or red WD ?
<diplo> green*
<diplo> What does the balance do then ?
<popey> shuffles the data about to spread it more evenly
<popey> useful after you swap a disk out
<popey> or add disks
<diplo> ah right, sounds good
<diplo> Seems I should go for the Reds, from what I've read the greens seem to fail more often
<MooDoo> I'm after reds for my servers, Â£70 ish for 2TB
<diplo> I was going for the 4tb as I have 2.4tb of data
<MooDoo> I'm just getting up to 1tb so 2 is fine for me :D
<diplo> I had 3.8tb - Just had a huge clean out ready for this
<MooDoo> well that's in my nas, I just want reds for my webserver and virt server
<diplo> http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5-inch-Desktop-Drive-Frustration-Packaging/dp/B00I8O6SBK/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1417768121&sr=8-10&keywords=4tb+internal+hard+drive
<MooDoo> i've got HA for my ubuntu servers, but want reliable drives.
<diplo> Anyone know annywhere cheaper before I hit the button
<MooDoo> can't say i do
<ali1234> scan?
<diplo> ah forgot about them!
<diplo> Cheaper by a penny :D
<ali1234> no, 10p
<MooDoo> I'll wait till I get any christmas money, i'm in no rush as it means a total server reinstall any way
<diplo> Ordered
<diplo> ta
<MooDoo> :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy World Soil Day! :-D
<MooDoo> morning james
<JamesTait> MooDoo, are you still running a Minecraft server?
<MooDoo> yeah mate
<MooDoo> JamesTait: it's just a vanilla server minecraft.paulmellors.net
<MooDoo> just checking it's up lol
<MooDoo> yeah it is
<JamesTait> MooDoo, do you have capacity for a couple more players? My boys are getting fed up with "haxx" on avicus and mineplex and keep getting banned when they comment on flying characters and one-hit kills. :-P
<MooDoo> JamesTait: it's just a vanilla server so no mods or anything but they are welcome to use it when ever....let me know their usernames and i'll op them
<JamesTait> I'll let them know, thanks. :)
<MooDoo> no probs :D
<davmor2> JamesTait: did I miss your greeting?
<JamesTait> I don't know, davmor2, did you? :-P
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: how am ya chap
<JamesTait> Happy World Soil Day, davmor2. :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: ah so you got online before me for a change \o/ :)  /me digs a hole plants a plant in the hole and throws the excess soil in JamesTait 's direction
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm good thanks :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<zmoylan-pi> bright and sunny morning so it's a trap obviously.....
<davmor2> bigcalm: you started building lego's yet?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
<bigcalm> davmor2: you haven't been following my tweets I see
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: Snowspeeder and AT-AT are done. Will save the Super Star Destroyer for xmas time
<bigcalm> Or maybe next weekend
<brobostigon> moring boys and girls.
<bigcalm> Today I shall mostly be listening to the 44 albums from my various Humble Bundle purchases. Starting with the Awesomenauts OST as it's AWESOME!
<davmor2> bigcalm: nicec at-at was it fun to build do the legs move as expected etc
<davmor2> bigcalm: today I will mostly be listening to The Lord of the Rings bbc radio play
<bigcalm> davmor2: the legs do move as expected. Which is why I always thought the design was very impractical
<davmor2> hahaha
<zmoylan-pi> i was tempted to get the star wars lego at-at and add the robotics kit just to have it wandering at random around the home.  and if anyone asked why, just respond that it was looking for the rebel base :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: my question then would be what happens when it finds it?
<zmoylan-pi> then the fireworks begin as they try to take out the generators
<bigcalm> davmor2: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/540823429474422784
<davmor2> bigcalm: hahahahaha
<MooDoo> darn this superhub
<bigcalm> MooDoo: are you running it in modem only mode?
<zmoylan-pi> oops http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/sony/11274727/Sony-saved-thousands-of-passwords-in-a-folder-named-Password.html
<MooDoo> bigcalm: no not yet.....i'm remote accessing my vps at home, but my main webserver isn't accessible....strange
<MooDoo> and i can't get onto the super hub, keeps timing out :(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: the super hub is very reliable when running in modem only mode and hooked up to a router of your own choosing
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah people keep telling me that, I'll do that when I get home tonight, just a pain when it doesn't work and causes me issues.
<popey> yeah
<popey> So, virgin media.... â»
<popey> My mum phoned them up to get caller ID turned on
<popey> She said she also wanted to review her package
<popey> They upsold her a tivo, downgraded her internet and she's paying 10 quid more
<popey> undoing her "mates rates" deal she had which I setup
<popey> I have complained and hopefully we'll get it reinstated
<MooDoo> didn't you phone them up the other day?
<bigcalm> popey: argh :(
<popey> yes
<popey> phoned them twice
<zmoylan-pi> he's still on hold from the other day :-P
<popey> heh
<popey> they also lied about her recorded content still being available on the new box
<zmoylan-pi> they'll say anything to get out the door
<Myrtti> meh.
<MooDoo> I can connect to my kvm host at home, my desktop, but not my main webserver or superhub, god daaaamn raaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<brobostigon> even if they have to break the law doing so.
<Myrtti> I hate my arduino a bit
<brobostigon> which one have you got?
<Myrtti> I've got two floras, one Pro Trinket for which I develop using an Uno
<brobostigon> i have, two duemilenove and one due.
<brobostigon> ah, cool.
<awilkins> I have one that I strap to my head ( Micro )
<awilkins> As part of an EDTracker
<Myrtti> I'm doing my bouquet
<awilkins> And one that's part of a prototyping kit I got from an Arduino course
<foobarry> getting java apps to run is such a beast
<foobarry> always with teh "blocked by java" issues
<foobarry> even adding to the site exception list still gets blocked :(
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to kill a dhcp licence in open-wrt, or possible from a machine so that it gets a new lease?
<zmoylan-pi> what os is the client machine?
<bigcalm> Ubuntu
<popey> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VIBaW4v4iik
<bigcalm> It's a vagrant vm that's using the wrong IP address on my LAN
<bigcalm> popey: This plug-in is not supported
<intrbiz> bigcalm: does the vagrant vm have a static MAC address?
<zmoylan-pi> sudo dhclient -r according to http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-linux-renew-dhcp-client-ip-address/
<bigcalm> intrbiz: it does
<bigcalm> Which I don't want to change
<intrbiz> you should be able to add a static lease on the DHCP server
<bigcalm> I don't want to do that either :)
<intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: DHCP will ask to use the same address
<intrbiz> you can remvoe the state file on the client, usually in /var/lib/dhcpcd or /var/lib/dhclient
<popey> excellent, stream broke
<bigcalm> popey: and the stream breaks :(
<intrbiz> bigcalm: why don't you want to add a static lease on the open-wrt box?
<popey> ffs
<popey> skips forward to launched
<bigcalm> intrbiz: because then I'd end up doing so for all of my vagrant machines, which I don't need to
<intrbiz> ok
<bigcalm> Once the lease expires in 11+ hours and I bring the VM up again, it should get the correct IP address
<bigcalm> I wanted to know if I speed things along
<intrbiz> does your open-wrt support registering client DNS updates?
<bigcalm> I wouldn't know :)
<intrbiz> ok
 * popey hugs openwrt
<intrbiz> out of interest, does vagrant have a way to configure a VM with a static address?
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> For the private network at least
<bigcalm> But I shouldn't have to for the public network (my LAN)
<bigcalm> I've shut down the vagrant machines but the leases remain on the router. Need to work out how to remove those leases
 * bigcalm ssh's in and does some damage
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you can edit the lease file on the DHCP server, you need to stop DHCPD first and be careful to get it correct
<bigcalm> Yay, worked it out
<bigcalm> ssh'd to the router. removed the 2 offending leases from /var/dhcp.leases
<bigcalm> Refreshed the web interface and they are no longer visible
<bigcalm> Lets see if the VMs get the expected IPs now
<intrbiz> did you reload dhcpd?
<bigcalm> Nope, that's why it didn't work :)
<intrbiz> you need to stop it, edit the file, start it
<intrbiz> you also need to remove the file on the client and the client will probably try to get it's previous address again
<bigcalm> Yeah, trick will be finding the script for start/stop on the router
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
<bigcalm> Well this is taking longer than expected. I'll put up with the wrong IP address for today. It'll have sorted it self out by Monday
<intrbiz> :)
<popey> https://twitter.com/Trumpton_UKIP fun
<zmoylan-pi> brilliant!
<bigcalm> Amusing :)
<bigcalm> ARGH at having to logout and back in to add my user to a new group
<bigcalm> Why is this still a thing?
<awilkins> When it all gets baked into systemd it will no longer be a thing because it will all support update events!
<awilkins> BOW DOWN BEFORE systemd!
 * awilkins stops trolling
 * zmoylan-pi resumes sharpening pitchfork
<awilkins> Glad they forked Debian, TBH
<awilkins> Not sure I'm bothered to a degree that will stop me using a Debian derivative
<MooDoo> I don't know what the bloomin problem is sheesh
<awilkins> But their concerns make sense
<MooDoo> to be honest if it runs apache or mysql or what ever i need, then i don't care about the init system
<awilkins> I think that's part of the concern, TBH
<awilkins> The justification for systemd makes no sense in the face of the majority of us who don't care about the "advantages" it claims to offer
<awilkins> Don't give a rat's ass about boot speed
<awilkins> Boot speed is *already* stupid fast
<awilkins> Why overturn all the tables in the dining room for a few extra seconds of productivity a day
<popey> thats a very narrow view
<popey> its not just desktop which has boot speed as a factor
<popey> massive scale out deployments benefit from fast boot
<awilkins> Servers : will spend longer initializing their RAID card than booting, very often (in my experience)
<awilkins> I can see it for phones and other small devices that you want to work NOW
<awilkins> But the solution for those that's already being used is pretty good
<popey> uh, not VMs in the cloud
<awilkins> Is it necessary to amalgamate all the things that systemd does, to gain the fast boot (genuine question)?
<popey> you're the one fixated on boot speed
<awilkins> Well, boot speed is the most common justification for it I hear
<popey> that's not really the main thing systemd is billed as 'fixing' as I understand it
<popey> i only ever hear that from users, not developers
<awilkins> I would be interested to hear what is, from another perspectie
 * awilkins looks at a table here : http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html
<awilkins> See, the table looks awesome
<awilkins> Lots of green squares
<awilkins> But it doesn't explain why having those responsibilities as part of your init system is a good thing
<bigcalm> Looks like the pizza express logo
<awilkins> I mean, take one : XDG_RUNTIME_DIR - why does the init system need to manage that?
<bigcalm> popey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuOpxOrA_0&feature=youtu.be
<popey> why would it not need to?
<popey> surely if you're responsible for starting applications/processes, it makes sense that you should setup the environment correctly
<popey> setting XDG_RUNTIME_DIR seems to be the right thing to do there
<awilkins> Well, it says sysvinit and Upstart don't do it
<popey> which they maybe should
<awilkins> So what's the knarly hack that lets Ubuntu manage to set it?
<awilkins> And why is it bad?
<popey> looks like its set elsewhere, mountall/pam kinda area
<popey> yeah, mountall seems to set it
<awilkins> That  seems a reasonable place to do it too
<popey> not to me
<popey> hey ho
<awilkins> IF mountall is doing the file system mounting..   it's for user stuff - why isn't login doing it
<bigcalm> I just wanted to grumble about user's groups. Didn't mean for this, sorry
<awilkins> Don't be sorry, this is interestign
<awilkins> Most informative discussion of systemd I've seen ; all the ones on Slashdot devolve into "IT'S NOT UNIXY!!!"
<awilkins> And concern about the control of Red Hat over the thing
<popey> yeah, they don't get anywhere
<awilkins> And how they think Leonard Poettering is an <expletive deleted>
<shauno> I'm kinda looking foward to systemd.  it looks like it's finally catching up with launchd
<popey> I guess I am just not that bothered by it
<awilkins> People who had their nose put out of joint over Pulseaudio when clearly desktop Linux needed to be able to do simple little things like play audio from two apps at once like Windows had done for years
<awilkins> I found Pulseaudio frustrating but it's clearly the way things should go
<awilkins> Now it just works very nicely for me most of the time
<popey> I mean, it means extra work for us
<popey> so thats a bummer, as those people can't work on other things
<awilkins> What I've read today at least reassures me a bit ; it's copyright-assignment free
<awilkins> Which means they can never change the license and lock it up
<awilkins> Unlike, (no offence) Upstart
<foobarry> i am sympathetic to the greybeards cause
<foobarry> but they annoy me in their manner of moaning
<ali1234> i have to agree awilkins
<ali1234> systemd advocacy is largely based around the idea of redefining what systemd is in order to win any argument
<ali1234> so if someone says systemd is too heavy, it's just an init
<ali1234> if someone says we already have inits, then systemd includes a load of other functionality
<ali1234> systemd will likely cause a large amount of problems when it is released in ubuntu
<ali1234> but give it a couple of years and it will probably be okay, like pulseaudio is now
<intrbiz> I've been using systemd for a bout three years, the main difference is just using a different command
<intrbiz> the journal is interesting too, forward sealing and tamperproof
<Myrtti> ahhahhahahhahhahahha <Mad Scientist laughter />
<ali1234> forward sealing is nice
<ali1234> attackers still have a half hour windoww in which to modify logs
<ali1234> you can configure that, but really any window is enough for an automated attack
<ali1234> still handy for detecting accidental corruption though
<ali1234> the thing is systemd has lots of nice features, but so did pulseaudio
<ali1234> i'm worried that if anything goes wrong we're going to get the same excuses as last time, eg "ubuntu shouldn't have shipped pulseaudio because it wasn't ready"
<ali1234> on the other hand, systemd can't be undermined by rubbish drivers the same way that PA could by ALSA
<directhex> https://steamdb.info/app/8870/history/
<bigcalm> Ooo
<bigcalm> What's the incentive to port to linux for a game that's been out for year+?
<directhex> launch day sales for steambox
<bigcalm> Ah, yes
<mapps> gah so cold when i get up
<mapps> marble flooring makes everywhere cold!
<directhex> :'(
<directhex> and all those stupid cold solid gold taps!
<directhex> and the cold frame of the four poster!
<mapps> the suns out but it seems cold
<mapps>  should i go to estapona.malaga and granada or a flight to switzerland
<bigcalm> It's got to that point in the day when anybody who walks up the stairs gets blinded by the setting sun
<mapps> hmm
<bigcalm> Not a fan of the style of game that Dungeon Defenders is, but I'm enjoying the OST
<bigcalm> A good reason to buy stuff via Humble Bundle is getting the music included
<MooDoo> ooo off to ikea this weekend to buy a server rack :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: is there one for torchlight?
<bigcalm> davmor2: yep
<bigcalm> It's in my account's library
<davmor2> bigcalm: please let me know what you think to that one :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: when you eventually get to it :)
<ali1234> i seem to recall torchlight not having much of a soundtrack
<directhex> MooDoo: a Â£10 LACK table?
<Myrtti> I got my Arduino project to work on breadboard
<Myrtti> whee
<ali1234> what does it do?
<Myrtti> blinks different colours on RGB LED's depending on which button (combinations) is pushed
<bigcalm> Ooo, shiny
<MooDoo> directhex: yeah lol
<MooDoo> just been looking at them now :D
<intrbiz> i have a few LackRacks here
<bigcalm> A what now?
<daftykins> sounds like racks that are lacking a thing or two :>
<daftykins> or perhaps pushed around by lackeys?
<diddledan> Myrtti, that's blinking flashy!
<intrbiz> bigcalm: Lack is a side table from Ikea where the legs at 19" apart, perfect for mounting switches
<ali1234> what about rear support though?
<bigcalm> Oh, those things
<intrbiz> switches aren't heavy enough for it to be an issue
<intrbiz> to be precise: https://o.twimg.com/1/proxy.jpg?t=FQQVBBgpaHR0cHM6Ly90d2l0cGljLmNvbS9zaG93L2xhcmdlLzdoa3BzbS5qcGcUBBYAEgA&s=mDPxJlh5VtxG4fp87tzR1Y6jQCrleh8HHRcVnOtwzo4
<intrbiz> (whisky is optional)
<bigcalm> We lost track of our King's Ginger during the house move. I've been grumpy about that for some time now
<bigcalm> If I order a new couple of bottles, I know we'll find our stock
<shauno> am I the only one getting a whole retro vibe off this Orion flight?  it feels like they're re-learning stuff they had down pat 50 years ago
<popey> they kinda are a bit
<intrbiz> bigcalm: you always find things in the last place you look
<daftykins> perhaps it's a case of poor documentation!
<popey> haha
<popey> or the documentation is in WordStar format!
<bigcalm> intrbiz: because I'll stop looking at that point. I need a warming shot now
<bigcalm> Bit early for that or mulled ginger wine though
<popey> Our kids have their school disco tonight
<popey> They are somewhat excited
<intrbiz> its never too early for a drinky
<intrbiz> did you see someone built a simulator for Apollo guidance computer, which could load the transcribe Apollo programs
<diddledan> intrbiz, does it simulate the master alarm problems, too?
<intrbiz> not sure
<intrbiz> so many people get that quote wrong
<intrbiz> there are also the transcript of the Apollo missions online - http://apollo13.spacelog.org/02:07:55:35/#log-line-201335
<diddledan> I think it's about time to go home
<daftykins> yes!
<daftykins> crikey it's cold
<daftykins> my old mans coming over tonight with some perspex to put up against my lovely 17th century single glazing
<daftykins> this should hopefully improve matters :D
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> gotta love perpex
<diddledan> +s
<daftykins> Â£230 for just a few windows worth though :(
<daftykins> 5mm thick stuff
<diddledan> grr @ price
<intrbiz> I prefer polymethyl methacrylate
<diddledan> bless you
<intrbiz> :)
<daftykins> intrbiz the meth addict there
<daftykins> ;)
<mapps> good day so far
<mapps> made some yens on the racing
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> mapps, you're incorrigible
<mapps> whats that mean
<mapps> ahj
<mapps> google told me
 * popey ponders what to have for tea
<popey> probably curry
<brobostigon> :)
<mapps> im gonna have a mixed grill later i think
<mapps> got 3-4hr gap so il just leave the office and get some food:D
<diddledan> popey, good plan
<diddledan> I wonder what I shall have... who am I kidding, it's obviously gonna be pizza
<zmoylan-pi> curry tea... so hot then? ;-)
<diddledan> hot hot hot
<zmoylan-pi> iif you brains don't melt out your ears you get your money back
<mapps> useless
<mapps> aquagib bill says i can pay online
<mapps> but i cANT SEE any possible way ti pay on the website
<mapps> tweeted them and got no response! gah
<mapps> Dont wanna have to walk somewhere to pay a stupid bill
<zmoylan-pi> tweeting customer service on a friday afternoon...
<diddledan> and home
<diddledan> where did everyone go?
<shauno> well, it's friday night.  so, minecraft
<diddledan> meh
<diddledan> I'm messing with compilations
<diddledan> as in gcc, not mp3
<daftykins> aww yeah got the perspex in \o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sl5ciwboeh6fjho/AAAAg_CR1HjXaTECU0g8d4CVa?dl=0
<daftykins> though my old man's approach to rushing at jobs so he can get home leaves a lot to be desired :P
<daftykins> drilled perspex mess everywhere!
<diddledan> you put perspex in front of the TV?
<diddledan> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sl5ciwboeh6fjho/AAAAg_CR1HjXaTECU0g8d4CVa?dl=0#lh:null-IMG_20141205_200847.jpg
<daftykins> no, behind
<daftykins> atop the glass and window frames
<daftykins> my TV always looks so big when moved, but tiny when back in that window sill :(
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-06
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> what-o
<zmoylan-pi> bark bark
<mapps> :D
<mapps> usual suspects eh
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> i am so unbelievably tired, but i fought through the sleep to continue being idiotic
<daftykins> now i am debating either a first episode of Star Trek TOS season 2, or Magnum PI 1x02
<mapps> what time did u get up today
<daftykins> afternoon :/
<mapps> heh how lae tho
<mapps> i got up at 4
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> 2ish conscious and 4ish actually up
<daftykins> barely made it to a coffee shop for a panini breakfast ;)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> watching the final of apprentice uk s2;]
<mapps> been caning through them
<mapps> think i only dtatted watching since s9
 * zmoylan-pi puts on airplane ii
<mapps> wassat
<mapps> what was that show u said to checkout i forget
<zmoylan-pi> cabin pressure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_Pressure_%28radio_series%29
<mapps> thanks sir
<mapps> what tie=me you gonna go to sleep night owls
<daftykins> my brain feels like goo
<daftykins> so i'm hoping momentarily
<mapps> o
<mapps> night all
<zmoylan-pi> cya
 * foobarry clocks in for the morning shift
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> hi
<ali1234> wheeeee
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> yay i managed to fix a household problem
<foobarry> one of the radaitaors wasnt working
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> found a youtube video that explained how the thermostatic valve get crudded up  and u have to pull the pin out with a hammer
<foobarry> hammer^pliers
<daftykins> foobarry: :D nice!
<popey> Evening all
<brobostigon> evening popey
<daftykins> o/
<m0nkey_> W00t! http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/6/7345309/grim-fandango-remastered-will-bring-the-1998-classic-back-to-life-on
<daftykins> interesting
<daftykins> i never played originally
<m0nkey_> I have always been into the LucasArts point and click stories. Monkey Island, Sam&Max, Full Throttle, DOTT.
<m0nkey_> I've played the Monkey Island remastered, I replayed pretty much everything else.
<m0nkey_> TellTail games did a new Monkey Island. They do very well.
<m0nkey_> Just wish I brought my old games collection with me to Canada
<daftykins> d'aww, surely most of that can be obtained via emulated means these days?
<ali1234> !info scummvm
<lubotu3> scummvm (source: scummvm): engine for several graphical adventure games. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.0+dfsg-3 (utopic), package size 5472 kB, installed size 18916 kB
<m0nkey_> Yeah, SCUMM pretty much takes care of it all
 * popey wants scummvm on his ubuntu phone
<daftykins> lul
<ali1234> well it's SDL, so you better make a way to package SDL games in click packages...
<popey> you'd have to bundle sdl in, until sdl lands in the platform - which it might not
<ali1234> and speaking of SDL games on phones, who wants to try something?
<daftykins> that kinda thing seems more like the thing that's fun to get working but once it is it's not something i'd continue with :>
<popey> ali1234: sure, what?
<ali1234> a demo for android
<ali1234> if you have a hardware keyboard you might even be able to play it
<popey> i cant find my usb to go cable actually
<ali1234> wow, it actually works
<popey> is this your 3d racer?
<ali1234> no
<popey> well, happy to test stuff
<ali1234> it's my puzzlefighter game
<ali1234> i'm warming up for porting the racer with something easier
<popey> do you have an apk? and does it have x86 support?
<ali1234> yes and maybe
<ali1234> i think it's a fat apk
<popey> k
<ali1234> no idea if it will work tho
<popey> i have armhf and x86 tablets handy
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/SDLActivity-debug.apk
<ali1234> controls are WASDXC
<ali1234> spam X to actually play, you are on the left
<ali1234> X and C are forward / backward in the menu, but the menu doesn't render
<ali1234> it does make sounds though
<ali1234> so spam C to go back to attract mode
<popey> i have no kb
<popey> and no osk
<ali1234> it will just run attract mode then
<popey> oh
<popey> oddly i see only one play area
<ali1234> probably a resolution issue
<popey> but when i took a screenshot another play area appeared
<ali1234> it's meant for 1280x720 and should be locked to landscape mode
<popey> yes, locked to landscape
<popey> my tab is 1920x1200 i think
<ali1234> hmm... no idea what would happen in that case
<popey> https://imgur.com/RPdGaXB
<popey> all the purple is black
<ali1234> hmm
<popey> the play area on the left is invisible
<ali1234> right, so my desktop code that assumes that it gets the window size it asked for needs work
<ali1234> do you get sound?
<popey> yes
<popey> some odd flickering inside some of the tiles
<ali1234> is the framerate okay? should run 60fps without stuttering at all
<ali1234> the odd flickering is intentional?
<popey> like lightning inside one of the tiles that has a coloured centre and silver surround
<ali1234> yes that is intentional
<popey> ok
<ali1234> you place those blocks next to matching colour normal blocks to explode them
<popey> blocks are above the top
<ali1234> the one that changes colour is the magic "blows up everything" block
<popey> a video would probably help here
<ali1234> yes that is also intentional
 * popey fetches his iphone
<ali1234> normally you wouldn't be able to see that
<ali1234> the way the game works, you only lose if the fourth column fills up
<ali1234> nothing else matters
<ali1234> and blocks are supposed to fall in from off the top of the screen
<popey> i pressed back in the game and it said "unfortunately SDLGame has stopped"
<ali1234> yeah, known issue
<ali1234> so it's meant to look like this, more or less: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EExQc4s9B8
<popey> i get no title screen
<popey> no background
<popey> looks like tetrinet
<ali1234> yes, menu and background aren't ported to GLES yet
<ali1234> the gameplay is quite different to tetris
<popey> ali1234: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLhAZunjQg
<ali1234> hmm... that looks weird
<ali1234> getting the window the right size will probably help with that
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-07
<ali1234> popey: i uploaded a new apk. it should detect resolution properly now. same url.
<popey> k
<ali1234> i'm really impressed with SDL android, i've had zero problems with it
<ali1234> it took me about a week to port to GLES, and about to day to port that to android
<popey> better
<popey> ali1234: https://imgur.com/eXIym41
<ali1234> that's really weird
 * popey grabs a nexus 7 2012
<ali1234> it definitely works there, that's what i'm testing on
<daftykins> it was the popester, in the lounge with the N5 :o
<ali1234> popey: that's the hudl right? so it kinda works on x86...
<popey> yews
<hexxington> looks like a hudl 2
<popey> yeah, fine on nexus 7 2012
<popey> yes, hudl2
<hexxington> tesco refused to say who the ODM was. top secret.
<hexxington> play.google.com lists it as "pegatron hudl 2" in the devices list
<hexxington> morons
<popey> pegatron
<popey> not secret at all
<ali1234> pegatron sounds like a knock-off transformer
<popey> pegatron have been an ODM for ARM OEMs for years
<hexxington> pegatron are one of the big 10 ODMs
<penguin42> Can the new Tesco x86 based one boot arbitrary OSs?
<daftykins> oh my bad.
<daftykins> guess that explains why it's so big XD
<daftykins> looks exactly like my friends red Nexus 5 :>
<popey> its way huge-er than nexus 5
<popey> I really like the hudle
<popey> -e
<popey> it's my main go-to tablet
<hexxington> thye most complete ODM data is for laptops in 2011. pegatron were #5
<daftykins> one of our local wholesale supermarkets is apparently selling Tesco stock these days, i wonder if they can obtain the hudl2
<popey> of course part of the reason it's my go-to tablet is because it's the most powerful tablet in the house
<hexxington> compal, quanta, wistron, foxconn, pegatron, inventec, flextronics, ecs
<hexxington> almost every laptop is made by one of those 8
<hexxington> e.g. thinkpads are wistron, macbooks are quanta
<ali1234> what about clevo?
<hexxington> hm, good point
<hexxington> how did i miss clevo? they do most of the "lol, let's put SLI in a laptop" gamer laptops
<hexxington> did you see MSI's gaming laptop w/ cherry mx mechanical keyboard?
<ali1234> no. it sounds silly
<hexxington> you haven't seen how it looks :>
<hexxington> http://uk.msi.com/news/1885.html
<popey> wat
<hexxington> and before you ask, cherry switches are *really* deep, so they can't do the usual and put the laptop parts underneath the keyboard.
<hexxington> so the laptop parts are above the keyboard, and the circuit board for the keyboard goes down to the bottom of the case
<ali1234> well...
<ali1234> it doesn't look that bad
<hexxington> the numpad is actually a trackpad with numbers drawn on
<ali1234> i mean if you have a large display there's always going to be wasted space on the bottom part
<ali1234> looks like an old amiga or atari st
<ali1234> with  screen stuck to it
<ali1234> i think i prefer it to something like this: http://technewsday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/msi-gt80-gaming-laptop.jpg where you have to reach over the touch pad
<ali1234> not that i would ever buy a gaming laptop...
<diddledan> "as well as our usual selection of carefully developed MSI gaming technologies" <-- why does that sound to me like preinstalled poo-ware?
<diddledan> I'd rather the keyboard and smarts arrangement were the other way about, though - the smarts against your belly and the keyboard under the screen
<diddledan> that way I still have somewhere to rest my palms
<ali1234> they make video cards...
<diddledan> with it as it looks in the photo I'd have to perch the lappy on the very end of my knees to have enough room to get my hands in the right place
<diddledan> i.e. it'll fall on the floor
<diddledan> I actually quite like my chiclet keyboards
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/3Iqphls.gif
<daftykins> skating obama gif
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> night shift signing in;p
<mapps> noone up for once?
<daftykins> never fear
 * daftykins is here
<mapps> ah no the usual suspect (s) are here
<mapps> is zmoylan-1i  up too?:P
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> maybe not
<mapps> hm
<mapps> sleep time for me now;
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> oh the joys of working on a sudnay
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> so. I got antsy waiting for libertos and starting compiling ubuntu for the raspberry pi myself :-p
<diddledan> I have no idea whether I've done it right tho
<popey> how did you do it?
<diddledan> I've got reprepro and rebuildd+sbuild
<diddledan> I'm unsure whether rebuildd was the right way to go vs wanna-build
<hexxington> i'll tell what i wanna-build
<hexxington> what i really really wanna-build
<popey> diddledan: whats the progress so far?
<hexxington> didn't someone indiegogo AlanBell to do it? or am i misremembering
<diddledan> slow: http://orbital.bowlhat.net:9998/dist/trusty/arch/armhf
<diddledan> there seems to be quite a few failures
<diddledan> but not every package is failing
<hexxington> no way to see the list or logs from there?
<diddledan> yeah the web interface is a bit pants
<popey> diddledan: is it building on a pi?
<popey> just one?
<diddledan> no, it's building in an schroot filtered through qemu-user
<popey> ah
<hexxington> diddledan, many failures are because qemu-user uses your x86 /proc/cpuinfo
 * popey has only just twigged that hexxington is directhex
<diddledan> hexxington, oh dear
<diddledan> this "sorry, unimplemented" appears to be happening in a lot of the failures: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9410718/
<popey> i have 14.04 on a banana pi here, wonder if that would be easier to build on
<popey> need to set whatever flag to make it build armv6
<popey> diddledan: did you follow some guide online?
<diddledan> I've read lots of different guides but the linaro ones were the most useful
<diddledan> I tweaked it a bit but this is roughly what I followed - specifically I created an armhf chroot instead of a cross-building one: https://wiki.linaro.org/Platform/DevPlatform/CrossBuildd
<ali1234> diddledan: qemu-user will fail hard, i already tried it
<ali1234> qemu-system will also fail, in different ways, plus it's not actually any faster than a raspi
<ali1234> it was nearly a year ago, they might have fixed it
<diddledan> ok, so it seems that rebuildd isn't able to work with more-than-one system?
<diddledan> maybe I chose wrongly
<ali1234> maybe you can use distcc with it?
<ali1234> also, you can build many packages in parallel
<ali1234> on different systems
<diddledan> time for lunch - bbiab
<diddledan> ali1234, does rebuildd allow other systems to connect to it's database (the database is a sqlite file)
<diddledan> from something I found just before lunch it read as though rebuildd doesn't allow distributed sbuild
<mapps> hi all
<hexxington> as a parent with a potty-training toddler, i long for the sweet embrace of death
<zmoylan-pi> maybe you are dead and are in a personal hell with a potty training toddler who never learns... :-P
<shauno> yet it's funny when monkeys do it.
<zmoylan-pi> maybe hexxington's christmas present is the toddler presenting a chamber pot with a big poo in it and hexxington seeing the end of the horror will be happy :-)
<isleofmandan> Just about to visit a local Ubuntu user who kicked power cord out of his PC during updates... Says it won't work.  Assuming I can get it to boot into a terminal, do you reckon sudo apt-get update, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade is the way forward?
<isleofmandan> and can someone remind me of fsck command line switches?
<ali1234> sudo apt-get -f install
<ali1234> all the required files will already be downloaded
<ali1234> since it downloads everything before installing
<isleofmandan> ah, cheers ali1234
<ali1234> if you are really unlucky, apt db is corrupted
<ali1234> not sure what you do then
<isleofmandan> Fingers crossed ;)
<ali1234> rerun a normal update afterwards
<isleofmandan> OK. Will do. Thanks.
<diddledan> bbiab - heading home
<diddledan> and home
<penguin42> you didn't miss anything
<diddledan> I noticed
<BadCompany> I have installed ubuntu on my pc but for some reason i cant get the option to boot to Windows 8.1 when i start up my computer. Instead it goes straight to Ubuntu. I can see my Windows drive under devices when i click on file
<diddledan> BadCompany, try the same question in #ubuntu - this place is pretty quiet today and I don't know the answer
<BadCompany> dont worry i think the boot repair fixed it
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> that boot repair utility is pretty clever
<daftykins> i've heard of it fail more times ;)
<penguin42> I saw something about win8.1 having shared some storage between the repair partition and hte main system partition, so deleting the repair partition for space might break stuff for people
<diddledan> it's not so much shared as it is the repair partition gets booted first
<daftykins> ^
<shauno> so the repair partition boots the OS?
<daftykins> same setup in non-EFI windows vista or 7, it has the little boot partition preceeding the C: one
<daftykins> basically any windows 8 laptop comes with a horrible mess of partitions, my favourite move would be to nuke the lot and install from scratch ;) but of course newb users coming into #ubuntu aren't going to want/be capable of that
<diddledan> it's a misnomer to call it a repair partition - it contains the WinPE environment and an image for repairs which can be booted
<diddledan> it's an attempt at unifying the boot process to a single point of entry for both uefi and bios
<daftykins> O_.
<diddledan> the "bootloader" is actually a second step - there's a bootstrap before it now which gets called by the system and the bootstrap hands off to the "bootloader" which is a WinPE executable
<diddledan> the bootloader has mouse and graphics support now by virtue of being a WinPE thing
<shauno> whenever people try to explain the guts of windows to me, osx starts to sound more and more sensible
<daftykins> shauno: come back when it can actually full-screen an application like you expect it to ;)
<diddledan> hah!
<shauno> it .. does?
<daftykins> not in my experience
<diddledan> actually full-screen in yosemite isn't too bad
<daftykins> sometimes hitting the window control makes it just tall and skinny, i mean wth is that?
<daftykins> just for clarity - i'm not thinking of that kinda diagonal arrow one that really does take up the entire screen and hide the rest of the OS
<diddledan> I like that with manymonitors(TM) it does each screen separately rather than like it used to where you'd fullscreen on one monitor and the others are just deadspace
<shauno> oh you mean like maximize?
<daftykins> yep
<diddledan> and the fullscreens can all be independently switched
<ali1234> lol OS X maximize
<daftykins> sorry that would've been a far better choice of word
<daftykins> i haven't had my coffee yet :P
<shauno> osx doesn't have maximize.  it has 'zoom'.  they have different names because they do different things :/
<diddledan> not sure I've ever used zoom
<daftykins> wat
<diddledan> ^
<ali1234> it's exactly like maximize except sometimes it only works vertically for absolutely not reason
<diddledan> safari used to be one of those
<shauno> yeah.  it tries to be clever about the size of the window in relation to the size of the content
<shauno> and 'clever' rarely is
<m0nkey_> ugh. I hate what apple did to yosemite.
<m0nkey_> i don't want my apps to go full screen all the time.
<diddledan> yeah, I don't like that you can't single-click a control to full-screen/maximise the app but allow other windows in front of it
<diddledan> instead I'm often left dragging the corners of windows about
<m0nkey_> I kept a copy of the Mavericks installer, tempted to put that one back.
<daftykins> and hence why window management in OS X is the worst of all :D
<m0nkey_> Trying to sell my MacBook Air. Posted it at work, local ads, nobody seems to be buying.
<diddledan> I think I saw you pop it on facebook, too?
<daftykins> they sell those things with far insufficient storage
<m0nkey_> yup
<m0nkey_> Odd, the site I advertised it says I've had a reply. Yet, I don't see one.
<m0nkey_> I'd even swap it for an X1 Carbon
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> shame they ruined the function keys on the X1
<diddledan> I can't place the X1
 * diddledan googles
<foobarry> has no removal battery either
<m0nkey_> That is a disappointment. But the previous generation has a much better keyboard.
<diddledan> that looks smart
<diddledan> I wonder why lenovo persist with their nipple?
<foobarry> have a dilemma. do endless housework that i have been doing all weekend while not parenting? or spend time  on myself
<m0nkey_> I like the nipple. Better than a trackpad in some cases.
<foobarry> because nipples are innocuous for those who dont like them and useful for those who insist on them
<diddledan> foobarry, relax for the remainder of this evening. it's sunday night, and if you can't do nothing then when can you?!
<foobarry> exactly :(
<foobarry> have something i want to do..
<foobarry> work in progress http://i.imgur.com/Xq8FiRk.jpg
<foobarry> poor quality pic :S
<diddledan> perdy
<foobarry> ok which one of you was trying out his xmas present early? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30369701
<diddledan> lol
<m0nkey_> I hate this
<m0nkey_> I fly model aircraft.
<m0nkey_> However, I'm also a member of a club and have insurance.
<diddledan> m0nkey_, unfortunately most aren't as thoughtful
<m0nkey_> In order to be insured, certain conditions have to be met. One of which is DO NOT FLY NEAR A F**KING AIRPORT.
<daftykins> m0nkey_: where does the bad part come in?
<m0nkey_> I always encourage people to join a club if you're flying a plane, helicopter or drone.
<m0nkey_> daftykins, the bad part comes in when an uninsured idiot crashes his plain into a face of a 6 year old
<m0nkey_> killing him
<daftykins> wat, has that happened?
<m0nkey_> yes
<foobarry> :(
<daftykins> D:
<ali1234> yes, with model aircraft from years ago
<foobarry> i got a boomering in the forehead once
<ali1234> the type that are basically 1/10th scale actual airplanes
<m0nkey_> ali1234, the electric motors don't stop unlike IC.
<foobarry> at full speed
<foobarry> i've seen the RC jet ones that go at 400mph
<penguin42> foobarry: It explains a lot :-)
<m0nkey_> This is why this kind of thing upsets me.
<m0nkey_> People have been killed by idiots.
<m0nkey_> This is another perfect example of an idiot putting the lives of 180 in danger.
<diddledan> I think regulations concerning UAVs need to be tightened
<m0nkey_> http://www.bmfa.org/Multi-Rotors/tabid/1425/Default.aspx
<m0nkey_> The CAA does have regulations.
<m0nkey_> If you fly a model, you are subject to the air navigational order
<m0nkey_> An old colleague of mine went to work for the CAA, he approached me for input on the new regulations.
<ali1234> "limits of not flying within 50 metres of any person or 30 metres from any person during take off and landing"
<diddledan> the problem is there's no requirement to prove that you're capable/aware of the regs
<m0nkey_> diddledan, this is why you join a club
<m0nkey_> You are made very aware of the regs, you are insured, you have a safe place to fly.
<diddledan> yeah, that's definitely good
<m0nkey_> Every time I see somebody flying one of these things in a built up area, I always approach them and ask if they're a member of a club.
<diddledan> is there any provision concerning use of autonomous drones?
<m0nkey_> 99% of the time, they are not.
<m0nkey_> diddledan, the same regs apply
<m0nkey_> But you must be able to take control at a moments notice.
<diddledan> aah
<m0nkey_> You can use GPS to navigate, but you must always be able to take manual control
<ali1234> so what regs apply to models under 7kg?
<ali1234> because it looks to me like only 137 and 138
<m0nkey_> Regardless of weight, you're still subject to the ANO
<ali1234> yes, which articles of it?
<diddledan> this was an interesting use of drones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTWl-DtKdM
<m0nkey_> http://bmfa.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=295&PortalId=0&TabId=221
<m0nkey_> Typically, it's 137 and 138.
<m0nkey_> Also 166
<m0nkey_> And now 167
<ali1234> 167 appears to only apply to drones with cameras
<m0nkey_> I'm including it as people now tend to put cameras on everything.
<m0nkey_> But typically, it's 137 and 138.
<m0nkey_> Roughly translated to, "don't be an idiot"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> fine rules
<ali1234> the bbc story really makes it sound like any Â£25 drone can bring down a jet aircraft
<m0nkey_> If you're over 7kg, you must have a cut off should the aircraft lose it's signal
<m0nkey_> ali1234, the point is.. IT CAN
<penguin42> m0nkey_: If it can then that's a much bigger problem
<ali1234> the typical cheap drone people are getting for Â£25 weighs 11g
<m0nkey_> That low cost flying machine lands in a jet turbine can cause the turbine to set on fire
<shauno> I'm not sure I want to test the lower limits of fob ingress
<m0nkey_> Hopefully them idiots are not flying anywhere near an airport.
<shauno> (I know RR do, they have some fun videos where they throw (dead) chickens into turbines.  but still)
<ali1234> sounds like a job for mythbusters
<m0nkey_> ali1234, mythbusters have already done chickens vs aeroplane
<m0nkey_> That tiny drone, vs an aircraft going several mph, turns in to a projectile.
<ali1234> birds bring down aircraft all the time
<penguin42> m0nkey_: If #25 drones can bring down planes then someone is going to start have to worry about terrorism
<ali1234> large birds, like geese, that weigh several kg
<shauno> so what's the difference between a birdstrike, and a bird made out of abs/wire/batteries?
<penguin42> ali1234: It's rare for single birds to do it isn't it?
<ali1234> shauno: exactly, that's what we need mythbusters to test
<ali1234> penguin42: yes
<penguin42> ali1234: It's normally flocks that take out multiple engines
<ali1234> i would think the lithium ion battery is the worst bit
<ali1234> could potentially start a fire
<penguin42> there's only a few g of it though
<shauno> I think not being inside controlled airspace without direction is a safe default
<ali1234> well aside from the battery, a typical cheap drone is basically like a sparrow getting sucked into a jet engine
<m0nkey_> So, sorry to go all militant on this kind of thing. People have been killed due to negligence.
<shauno> I'm more of the view that people shouldn't screw with airports so that they're not driven to create more rules
<shauno> even if the really dainty ones can't bring down a plane, they can still make life more difficult for the rest of us
<m0nkey_> shauno, bingo. Don't mess with airports.
<ali1234> it's pretty clear from reading the bbc story that they are just looking for an excuse
<m0nkey_> Or any air field.
<ali1234> they'll find one no matter what happens
<m0nkey_> ali1234, and these idiots are giving it to them. It spoils the fun for people who are serious about the hobby (like me).
<ali1234> no, it doesn't
<m0nkey_> yes, it does. there has already been talk about restricting the use of model aircraft already.
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> they'll find an excuse to do it
<m0nkey_> setting limits on weights and sizes
<MooDoo> evening all
<ali1234> if it's not "idiots" it will be terrorists
<m0nkey_> mostly due to idiots flying in places they have no business being.
 * SuperEngineer looks at sky... nope, no flying idiots here [must be a Monty Python thing I suppose]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Are you saying that they should ban unlicensed flight of anything weighing more than an unladen swallow?
<SuperEngineer> no, I'm saying there are no flying idiots flying past my window - just flying sheep.
<penguin42> oh, that's fine then
<penguin42> they'd just bounce off any planes
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<daftykins> "mehehe"
#ubuntu-uk 2015-11-30
<daftykins> hey it's monday morning! my arrays are verifying!
<diddledan> \o/
<penguin42> daftykins: Shouldn't you go to sleep now so you don't hear them scream?
<daftykins> =]
<diddledan> what do you drive them with?
<diddledan> standard linux mdraid?
<daftykins> hell no, 3ware cards
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> hardware raid ftw?
<daftykins> the way i figure it, would i rather be digging through logs when the proverbial hits the fan, or seeing things handled nicely? :D
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> also, you can keep so much more a cooler head when dealing with someone elses data than your own
<penguin42> 3ware normally does work nicely
<daftykins> mine are pretty ancient now, but they're lovely
<penguin42> but I haven't had to build big raids for quite a few years now, and it's so common to get 6 SATA ports on board now
<daftykins> 9650SEs, mine has 12 ports... clients has 16
<daftykins> 6 x 2TB RAID5 here, 8 x 4TB RAID6 there
<penguin42> is www.bbc.co.uk dead for others as well?
<zmoylan-1i> connecting...
<zmoylan-pi> and finally... loaded
<penguin42> still taking it's time here
<daftykins> yep struggling
<daftykins> maybe it's all the freenode DoS traffic :P
<penguin42> or telehouse trying to fix their power again
<zmoylan-pi> or they switched their servers to 10 rasp pi zeros that came on magazine covers last week in reception...
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> ooh, now it's moved to having the beeb 500 page - the nice one with the testpage
<diddledan_> good video from john oliver : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGY6DqB1HX8
<diddledan_> about mental health programs in americy
<diddledan_> also, https://node-os.com/ ??
<penguin42> noh god, js took over the world....
<diddledan_> damned DDoS
<diddledan_> poor freenode is really suffering the last couple days
<penguin42> yeh
<penguin42> beebs website still seems to be borked
<diddledan_> beeb been down?
<penguin42> is for me
<diddledan_> seems ok heer
<diddledan_> here
<penguin42> diddledan_: I'm getting either a connection reset, or just a hang
<diddledan_> for the homepage it gave an error momentarily before chrome reloaded it and got the correct page
<diddledan_> if I wasn't paying attention I'd not have seen the error at all
<penguin42> curious
<penguin42> still broken on my other PC
<penguin42> and bytemark
 * zmoylan-pi watches christina hendricks get married to captain mal...
<diddledan_> who?
<diddledan_> and who?
<zmoylan-pi> go watch firefly
<diddledan_> aah
<diddledan_> I decided not to bother with that
<zmoylan-pi> it is worth it
<diddledan_> it was cancelled before I even started to watch it so I figured the stories would be left hanging so would be unsatisfying
<zmoylan-pi> i felt the same way till i a gaming group i was in decided to watch an episode while we waited for a late arrival
<zmoylan-pi> great show with great potential.  and still has a huge fanbase with 14 episodes and 1 movie
<zmoylan-pi> lots of lag your way diddledan_ ?
<diddledan_> it's freenode
<diddledan_> under a DDoS according to reports
<zmoylan-pi> was only you this time so might not be ddos
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> I suck
 * zmoylan-pi puts on an episode of red dwarf with dwayne dibley... :-)
<diddledan_> no, not dwayne dibley. I don't wanna be dwayne dibley!
<diddledan_> time for a nap methinks
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<zmoylan-pi> hmm not net splits but some sort sort of attack it would seem
<Myrtti> ddos since Thursday, with intermittent sunny patches
<Myrtti> then it all goes downhill again
<zmoylan-pi> and a chance of lag
<zmoylan-pi> i keep getting error messages that freenode is full
<Myrtti> yeah...
<pwaring> lag has gone away for me now, it was terrible yesterday though
<zmoylan-pi> not as much lag for me today but still got bounced and couldn't reconnnect this morning
<Myrtti> ever so sorry ð :-(
<MooDoo> no lag for me, and no need to apologise myrtti, it's not your fault is it :)
<Myrtti> well I feel responsible as member of the staff. It sucks when the skids decide to ruin things
<zmoylan-pi> definitely no need to apologise.  i just see it as opportunity to learn more about irssi to make it get past the errors quicker :-)
<zmoylan-pi> AND/OR find the eejits doing this and introduce them to the concept of annoyances...
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: concept of annoyances = baseball bat :
<MooDoo> :D
<zmoylan-pi> that would be culturally inappropriate.... i'm not american... i prefer a hammer... :-P
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<davmor2> czajkowski: congrats by the way for getting on the board
<czajkowski> davmor2: thank you
<czajkowski> davmor2: how's life?
<davmor2> czajkowski: busier than ever, but good thanks, oh and missing the caravan, you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I've not been to ours in yonks, must make an effort to get to bakewell more next yeat.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I thought it was your dads?
<czajkowski> davmor2: back afrter 4 days off so in my happy bubble
<davmor2> MooDoo: we went every weekend because we got a seasonal pitch
<MooDoo> davmor2: father in laws, but we didn't go much this year
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't caravaning weather this year
<MooDoo> it's a static, so isn't too bad in the rain
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: there is no such thing as caravanning weather it's a home on wheels, when it rains you stay in like you do at home :P
<davmor2> MooDoo: Mine isn't but It is getting big enough to be :)
<MooDoo> it's bakewell, it's a lovely break :)
<zmoylan-pi> and hope someone brought the travel scrabble and the scrabble...
<davmor2> MooDoo: we got a seasonal at Ebury Hill it's like a 40 minute drive away but it is so peaceful :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's nice because you feel refreshed after a weekend away :)
<MooDoo> definately, nothing like a full english on the verander in the sunshine :)
<bashrc_> decadence!
<davmor2> bashrc_: I think you mean Luxury! then you burst into when I were lad you had no sunshine you were up before the sun and home after it were gone
 * bashrc_ resets days since four yorkshiremen sketch counter
 * davmor2 tries to break bashrc_ counter, When I were a Lad you had no counters if the number were bigger than the number of fingers you could count it anyway
<davmor2> s/could/couldn't
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, listening to radio item about sales of sonic hedgehog games and megadrives been on the up...
<SuperMatt> yes, I heard about that
<zmoylan-pi> i was never into sega but might be worth a look
<SuperMatt> tbh, I have sonic on steam, don't need a megadrive to play it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Computer Security Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> it is the day after the nsa promised to stop one of their spying programs...
<zmoylan-pi> promise this time they mean it... ::wink wink::
<davmor2> JamesTait: I give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07cflKCl-Y
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think that is a good enough reason to want security right :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's not my usual thing, but I'm not disliking it. ð
<MooDoo> yay hackers
<MooDoo> lol "nsa: yes we'll stop" lol ha ha ha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
<zmoylan-pi> the soundtrack is the reason i bought the dvd, honest guv... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> it's my 3rd favourite hacker movie...
<zmoylan-pi> been so bad it's good sorta thing
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yeah right Angelina Jolie had nothing to do with it honest gov'nor
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: sneakers and swordfish are they in there?
<zmoylan-pi> i fancied her risc laptop more :-)
<zmoylan-pi> #2 sneakers.  never seen swordfish but have heard enough not to be bothered...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: Swordfish isn't that bad if you just treat it like all standard hollywood spy/thriller/action/hacker films you know complete fabrications
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: what's number 1 then
<zmoylan-pi> you won't have seen it, it turns up everytime there's a big discussion on hacker movies. it has no computers... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091464/
<zmoylan-pi> if you watch it you'll 1) agree it is a hacker movie 2) has an awesome soundtrack 3) laugh out loud
<MooDoo> sneakers is great - no more secrets :)
<zmoylan-pi> seetec astronomy
<MooDoo> :)
<zmoylan-pi> it's a wonderful movie but still only #2 on my hackers movie list
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: looks more like D.A.R.Y.L
<zmoylan-pi> watch it and then tell me i'm wrong :-)
<MooDoo> I like hackers, sneakers, antitrust
<zmoylan-pi> i think i have anti trust on dvd, it was ok
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you're wrong, fullstop but I'll try and see it :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: anitrust is just hackers 3 which makes me wonder why I haven't seen hackers 2 :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ex-mechina is good
<awilkins> I love that movie! The whole car-that-splits-in-two-for-greater-backstreet-agility thing is ace
<zmoylan-pi> shhhh!!!! spoliers!!!!
<awilkins> There's a picture of it on the IMDB page.
<zmoylan-pi> i know, but shhhhh
<zmoylan-pi> and not done in cgi either...
<davmor2> awilkins: Condorman did that too, and in bond it had a horse that turned into a plane :P
<MooDoo> blimey condorman, that's a blast from the past :D
<foobarry> dr who. can i discuss an issue
<foobarry> condorman was the first film we had on vhs
<MooDoo> foobarry: you have an issue with dr who?
<zmoylan-pi> first film i had on vhs was life of brian. an illegal copy as it was banned in ireland...
<foobarry> 2 billion years of skulls.
<foobarry> probably 100 billion skulls
<awilkins> davmor2, To be fair, it was just a horses ass that turned into a plane
<foobarry> i think the castle would no longer be there
<davmor2> MooDoo: I remember every film I ever watched it's worrying
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're watching classics :)
<foobarry> just covered in skulls
<foobarry> no sea
<zmoylan-pi> the first film i stopped watching it was so bad... lost in space
<MooDoo> it's gallifray, bigger on the inside tech :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: No I remember condorman from the cinema it was that long ago
<MooDoo> first film i saw at the cinema was the last starfighter :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: first film I saw at the Cinema was Starwars Episode v my Mom is a Harrisonford fan, so indiana jones, starwars, blade runner all at the cinema
<zmoylan-pi> the first film i saw in cinema was darby o'gill and the little people in very early 1970s
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> my first film was empire strikes back
<foobarry> i was 5.
<foobarry> this chrimstas i will be taking my son for the first time. he is 5.
<foobarry> the film? STAR WARS
<foobarry> the circle is complete
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: man you're old
<davmor2> foobarry: as long as he stays on the side of jedi's it's fine
<foobarry> i did
<davmor2> foobarry: That way leads to the darkside it does, full of windows and apples it is, no need for weapons, just a usb stick with ubuntu on it
<zmoylan-pi> if i had to peg an os for yoda i'd put him down as an os/2 user :-)
<awilkins> An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: No os/2 is more a captain kirk/scotty thing what with all that warp
<awilkins> Yoda is all about commands that have a --force option
<zmoylan-pi> and klingon and ferengi versions
<penguin42> forth yoda is
 * davmor2 is waiting for the starbucks and costa use the froth cups on starwars release
<penguin42> ouch
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be star wars on everything for months in a few weeks
<davmor2> penguin42: don't act like it won't happen ;)
 * penguin42 sighs
<davmor2> penguin42: it'll be may the froth be with you, or use the froth, guaranteed
<penguin42> davmor2: You should register the domain now
<andylockran> afternoon peeps
<diddledan_> https://grahamcluley.com/2015/11/hello-barbie-brings-smiles-kids-nightmares-privacy-advocates/
<zmoylan-pi> helping kids get used to the idea of no privacy
<awilkins> Slashdot ran an article about people haxx0ring them to spy on your kids
<awilkins> Totally missing the point that THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE FOR
<mapps> yay
<mapps> got my router user/pass
<mapps> ;D
<diddledan_> what was it?
<zmoylan-pi> 1234... :-)
<diddledan_> hunter2?
<davmor2> password
<davmor2> admin
<davmor2> Admin
<mapps> umeecpe was pass
<mapps> heh
<MooDoo> diddledan_: what was that password I only see ******** ;)
<diddledan_> this got assigned to someone. I wonder if that means my idea is being actively worked on? https://github.com/PowerShell/Win32-OpenSSH/issues/35
<zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed
<diddledan_> I'm actually quite proud of the thoroughness I put into writing that issue
<zmoylan-pi> covered all the ground from what i could see
<diddledan_> oftentimes when I file a bug/improvement I do as little effort as possible :-p
<diddledan_> I'm inherently laxy
<diddledan_> lazy
<zmoylan-pi> a rolled up newspaper hitting the developer on the nose *IS* a legitimate bug report :-D
<pwaring> I put in a lot of effort, which is why I get annoyed when people close something as WONTFIX
<pwaring> But I have a trick to avoid that now
<pwaring> Make first bug report a trivial documentation fix - if that's ignored do not contribute further
<diddledan_> lol, zmoylan-pi, that sounds fun
<zmoylan-pi> it's suggesting they're like a happy puppy sitting beside a big pile of poo that they made...
<zmoylan-pi> bad developer *smack*
<penguin42> heck it's wet out there
 * zmoylan-pi checks forecast for the week and only friday looks like it'll be a no rain day...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: where do live the sahara?
<mapps> hmm
<diddledan_> I haven't opened the curtains
<zmoylan-pi> dublin.  you don't get 40 shades of green without a little rain
<mapps> can someone try my ip 1194 forwarded port but cant connect
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: You'd think Manchester would be greener then
<mapps> piVPN	Port-Range	1194	1194	UDP	eth0.v1804	192.168.1.13	
<mapps> hm
<penguin42> oh just UDP?
<mapps> ya
<davmor2> pfff 50 shades of grey was named after the writer saw this sky
<mapps> i set the proto as UDP in server conf
<mapps> wonder if its to do with the nat interface it was set at
<mapps> i left it as default
<mapps> eth0.v1804 or eth0.v804.ppp
<mapps> ugh
<mapps> yea need 2nd i think
<mapps> nope still nothing;/
<mapps> anyone got any suggestions? openvpn is running and both server/client config looks ok
<penguin42> use TCP :-)
<diddledan_> what are you trying to get running?
<mapps> just enabled DMZ on the pi IP and still cant connect
<mapps> trying to forward 1194 to the pi so i can connect to my vpn from my phone
<diddledan_> UDP doesn't "connect" because it's UDP
<davmor2> mapps: is the port actually open on the pi
<mapps> davmor2 should be only iptables rule is iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 10.8.0.0/24 -o eth0 -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.1.13
<diddledan_> mapps: iptables -L INPUT --verbose | pastebinit
<diddledan_> (pastebinit is available on pi?)
<mapps> eya
<mapps> *sec and yea
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/339958/
<diddledan_> ok, your policy is set to accept - that's what I was wanting to verify
<diddledan_> hmm
<diddledan_> the daemon is running ? :-p
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/339959/
<diddledan_> </mr stating mcobvious>
<mapps> and yep
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/339961/
<mapps> can see it's running
<diddledan_> does your openvpn.log show the connection arriving?
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/339960/
<mapps> sec
<diddledan_> oops
<diddledan_> you'll need to regen your certs
<jpds> mapps: Oh, thanks for the private key
<mapps> nope nothing at all
<mapps> haha it doesnt matter for now;p
<mapps> cant connect anyway;)
<mapps> il regen later
<mapps> everything looks fine though? server/client config..iptables rules
<mapps> ipv4 forwarding enabled in sysctl.conf
<diddledan_> yeah
<jpds> I don't understand what this SNAT is about
<jpds> All I have on my VPN is a MASQUERADE rule
<mapps> http://paste.debian.net/339963/
<mapps> would nmap show udp?
<diddledan_> no it wouldn't
<jpds> mapps: netstat -lnptu
<diddledan_> udp can't be verified due to being connectionless
<mapps> ssh doesnt work..even though it says open? and ive set a DMZ up?
<diddledan_> are you sure your router can forward udp ports?
<mapps> yea it allows it
<mapps> so why cant i even ssh in...says port open but wont work
<mapps> could it be their end?
<diddledan_> your router might not do NAT-reflection, so if you're trying to ssh to your own public IP that might be the issue
<penguin42> mapps: Because the ssh is tcp ?
<mapps> but i set a DMZ
<mapps> can someone try ssh to my ip then please
<jpds> mapps: Can I have your private ssh key?
<mapps> i dont use ssh keys
<jpds> ...
<mapps> ?:|Z
<mapps> can someone please help
<diddledan_> :();:|:
<mapps> diddledan_ ??:(
<diddledan_> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<diddledan_> ^
<mapps> this sucks, no idea why i cant connect
<diddledan_> it's a forkbomb
<mapps> if it was their end, nmap wouldnt show as open would it?
<penguin42> diddledan_: It's impressively short
<diddledan_> if nmap shows it open then it's open
<diddledan_> penguin42: I think I got it wrong
<mapps> so if its open why cant i ssh even? i tried from my phone uing 3g
<mapps> as you mentioned nat reflection
<mapps> this is annoying:)
<diddledan_> penguin42: I think it should be :(){:|:};:
<diddledan_> again heed the warning of lubotu3
<diddledan_> !danger
<lubotu3> DO NOT RUN THAT COMMAND! That particular command is DANGEROUS and shouldn't be uttered here. REST OF YOU: DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! Do not use the command or utter it here thank you!
<Seeker`> diddledan_: why are you writing out forkbombs in here?
<diddledan_> Seeker`: it was a response to a weird series of characters that mapps wrote
<Seeker`> yeah, don't.
<mapps> maybe il reboot it
<mapps> although that wont do anything
<mapps> lol
<davmor2> mapps: are you reading the right guide for the os you have on the device for setting this all up or are you making it up as you go along
<mapps> lol yes im not a fool
<mapps> switched back to 3g and it's working
<mapps> so diddledan_ could be right?
<mapps> id never ever had that before, an issue connecting to the public ip locally:)
<mapps> yep and vpn working
<mapps> wow, how odd
<Azelphur> Anyone handy with monit? I've looked at the documentation on this page for pushover notifications, https://mmonit.com/wiki/MMonit/PushoverNotification (scroll to the bottom)
<davmor2> mapps: yay diddledan_ good guesswork dude ;)
<Azelphur> and I've wrote something similar for pushbullet, http://pastebin.com/QDhGLtcE but whenever I get an alert, I literally just get "$MONIT_SERVICE - $MONIT_DESCRIPTION" sent
<mapps> :D
<mapps> has anyone else had that before where you cant connect to the public ip locally?
<davmor2> mapps: I have on an old router but not for a while but then I run openwrt on ip-link routers pretty much since :)
<mapps> this is just the router i got given when i signed up to umee;)
<Azelphur> Oo, this is actually officially now a shell scripting error
<Azelphur> I stuck echo "$MONIT_HOST" | wall in the shell script, it walls "server", so the variables are definitely set
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06rkc60 was interesting to listen to. maybe of interest to some here... "John Harris from the Guardian talks to university researcher, Penny Andrews, who, after a difficult childhood and adolescence, was finally diagnosed as autistic in her early thirties"
<Seeker`> I've got a friend that was officially diagnosed at 26
<Azelphur> I was diagnosed pretty late myself, didn't get diagnosed until 16
<davmor2> I didn't get diagnosed with dyslexia till I was in Highschool and a supply teacher decided there was something up with me being in top set maths and science and bottom set English and French
 * penguin42 should probably get himself checked at some point, I'm fairly sure I tick most of the boxes
<Seeker`> penguin42: There's a difference between "not being very social" and "autistic"
<penguin42> Seeker`: Yes, I realise that
<davmor2> ah that is the polite way of putting it thanks Seeker`
<Azelphur> The take home here is that UKs mental health services are fairly useless, I've had some real bad experiences with them
<Azelphur> In other news, people noticed the 1TB Samsung EVOs on Amazon? so cheap, I picked one up
<Azelphur> I've been looking for 2TB HDD deals too, nobody has any good deals on them, seen 1TB, 3TB, 4TB and 5TB, SSDs of all sizes, and no 2TB deals :<
<penguin42> the flash prices seem to have fallen through the floor
<Azelphur> I'm having fun this black friday, my boss is late paying me so he gets to buy me whatever I want off Amazon at purse 50% rates until he pays me
<Azelphur> so I got that 1TB Samsung drive for Â£120
<marshmn> hi all; I have a few games which I *believe* were developed using the 'Unity 3d' cross-platform games engine; these seem to run pretty slowly on Linux though; does anyone have similar experience and/or know tips to make them playable?
<davmor2> penguin42: they will, they should get cheaper too, more bulk of chips less overall cost they will limit it at some point to make the maximum amount of profit
<Azelphur> marshmn: have you tried other games? do you get poor performance across the board, or only in Unity?
<marshmn> Azelphur: I have other games which seem more native and which seem to be fine; the machine is quite powerful too (i7 w/16GB RAM and Nvidia 750M)
<penguin42> davmor2: The 3d structure stuff might have helped recently, but it's more process steps so I'm not sure how much price wise it helps
<Azelphur> marshmn: are you using Unity?
<marshmn> not Unity desktop, no
<marshmn> I'm in Gnome
<Azelphur> Are you using a desktop with a compositor?
<marshmn> how to tell?
<davmor2> Azelphur: he is using gnome so it is using clutter iirc
<Azelphur> marshmn: hmm, do you have transparent windows anywhere?
<marshmn> Azelphur: I can run terminal with a transparent background if that's what you mean?
<Azelphur> marshmn: probably have composite enabled then, somewhere there will be a setting to turn that off
<Azelphur> you loose a few shiny effects, but composite hurts game performance
<Azelphur> Look for Window manager settings, Composite , etc. Dunno where it is in gnome, maybe someone else does.
<marshmn> Azelphur: ok, that's interesting, will look into it
<marshmn> ta
<diddledan_> does anyone know about https://atraci.github.io/Atraci-website/ ?
<diddledan_> aah it uses youtube
<diddledan_> I was wondering where they source their catalogue from
<Laney> bleh it looks grim outside
<awilkins> I went outside. It WAS grim.
<awilkins> However, as reward for my persistence, I now have a box of stroopwafel
<Laney> was intending to ride into town
<davmor2> awilkins: you get waffles for having a strop man there is something wrong with this world ;)
<Laney> but that is up and down TWO whole hills
<Laney> http://www.raintoday.co.uk/
<davmor2> Laney: they're call sleeping policemen, or speed humps, not hills honest gov ;)
<Seeker`> awilkins: gief
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> anyone in ?
<DJones> Nope
<zmoylan-pi> no one here but us chickens
<saur0> i'm not here
<diddledan_> quck
<diddledan_> quack
<penguin42> nope, definitely not
<diddledan_> I'm confused how a person at chromium thinks that the bug I filed isn't the bug I filed and therefore I should file a bug: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=557087
<diddledan_> #6 was me, as was the original bug report
<diddledan_> oh well, I guess I'll file an exact copy?
<penguin42> diddledan_: I guess it's a simpler case
<diddledan_> but it's the exact thing that I wanted fixed
<diddledan_> why should I have to file a second bug to get the thing fixed that I've already filed a bug to get the thing fixed?
<penguin42> diddledan_: It sounds to me like you're asking for it to 1) Prompt the user and 1a) Proide the cert if asked for 1b) connet anyway if the user says no
<penguin42> diddledan_: It sounds like they're asking for a bug filing for just 'connect anyway without the client cert'
<penguin42> diddledan_: Which without understanding the details of SSL, does sound simpler
<penguin42> anyway, time to poweroff brain, back to work tomorrow
<DeaDSouL> hi, i have a lycamobile number... and I would like to purchase a voucher from their website.. there a lot of categories and plans... which one allows me to send an internation SMS ?
<directhex> um........... i don't know?
<diddledan_> ask them?
<directhex> like, why does this seem like something anyone in here would know?
<diddledan_> what is lycamobile, anyway?
<directhex> diddledan_: they basically do PAYG SIMs for people whose families are far outside the EU, so need mostly international calls
<directhex> you'll find posters for them in most independent corner shops or ethnic food stores
<diddledan_> aah
<DeaDSouL> directhex: i'm out of uk now.. and i need to purchase voucher online... but i don;t know which one should i get ?
<intrbiz> DeaDSouL: I doubt anyone here will know
<daftykins> DeaDSouL: this is not a shop.
<intrbiz> is it me, or is this channel quiet of late
<daftykins> err, doesn't feel like anything beyond usual
<intrbiz> hmm, fair enough
<intrbiz> semed busier earlier in the summer
<daftykins> probably the winter blues and preparations for Christmas for all the family folk :)
<intrbiz> true
<intrbiz> TBF I've been pretty crap at being online the last few months
<daftykins> i'm keeping quite the funky hours myself :(
<intrbiz> yes, my monday mornings are all to funky hours these days
<DeaDSouL> intrbiz: thanks
<DeaDSouL> daftykins: really ?!
<daftykins> indeed!
<DeaDSouL> daftykins: smart boy
<daftykins> hey DeaDSouL let's go and ask in ##windows about good car insurance providers
<daftykins> i feel like i'm on a roll
<DeaDSouL> daftykins: i asked this channel because of the "uk" ... i thought someone knows
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-01
<daftykins> half past 1 and not a creature is stirring... the shop alarm however, is singing out over the town
<daftykins> where are my late night shift pals :(
<m0nkey_> Mastur .. sleeping.
<daftykins> :>
<MooDoo> Morning all
<daftykins> heya o/
<daftykins> welcome to December!
<MooDoo> yay
 * zmoylan-pi notifies strategic air command, this'll be the year we bag santa...
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> we now have surface to reindeer missiles... ho ho ho :-P
<MooDoo> track him here later in the month :) - http://www.noradsanta.org/
<zmoylan-pi> microsoft and norad.... makes me feel safer...
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<daftykins> \o
<davmor2> Well it's officially Christmas Tunes Time by the sound of the radio
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> Christmas 24 on the telly too :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: that has been there for months, I think radio makes a concerted effort to not play Christmas Songs till the first though
<daftykins> awww yis laptop delivered \o/
<daftykins> lol amazon shipped me a laptop in its' box, in another box... wat
<daftykins> such a waste
<zmoylan-pi> that's the box liberation front in action...
<daftykins> ooh this Â£200 Lenovo is very nice
<daftykins> a lot thinner than some of the earlier B50 line
<zmoylan-pi> thin... see what the battery life is like...
<daftykins> well it's a tiny battery and battery life isn't relevant to this guys needs, so why would that matter?
<daftykins> horses for courses, sir
<MooDoo> I've just received two my cloud hard drives in a big box, half of it was empty, another waste
<foobarry> how can i check the TTL value of a record in the DNS server
<foobarry> not the current secs , but the value stored in the config file
 * bashrc_ is reminded that he still needs a new laptop
<zmoylan-pi> wait till new year sales and get a bargain?
<andylockran> Howdy guys
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> ouch, 1TB spinner doing the initial Windows 8 setup... painfully slow :)
<daftykins> sadly the postie didn't bring the SSD that despatched at the same time! perhaps it'll be a day behind :(
<zmoylan-pi> it's been used as a doorstop in postal department.... :-)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers using a full height 5mb hard drive as a door stop till we sent it out to a customer to replace their dead drive... :-) /they don't build them like that anymore
<daftykins> with good reason!
<daftykins> wow, give support for a while, not even a thanks
<daftykins> good ol' #ubuntu
<zmoylan-pi> people only seem to appreciate things they pay for, it's sad but true...
 * daftykins starts charging in cookies
<daftykins> US kid with a school provided laptop, he claims they won't replace the disk in it based on this - http://pastebin.com/zyQR6rnY
 * zmoylan-pi gives daftykins huge pack of figrolls...
<daftykins> mmmm fig rolls :D thank you!
 * daftykins sings "fig-a-roll fig-a-roll fig-a-roooooooooll!"
<awilkins> "But it's only pre-fail!"
<awilkins> He should just back up, remove the disk, drop it on a hard floor a couple of times, and put it in and rejoice as it emits the click of death.
<zmoylan-pi> i replaced drives depending on how they sounded... that's 1 reason i like hard drives over ssd so much :-)
<zmoylan-pi> a rubber panel beaters mallet can hit the hard drive and leave no marks for percussive maintenance...
<awilkins> I've never had an SSD fail so far
<zmoylan-pi> don't type that!! :-)
<daftykins> oh please, life is too short not to run SSDs
<awilkins> Really cheap awful thumbdrives, yes
<zmoylan-pi> that's asking the gods of mocking to kill a ssd for fun...
<awilkins> 8GB Ones that were knocked down to Â£1.50 by Scan
<awilkins> Presumably because they were so slow and bad and failure prone
<awilkins> I have a 500GB SSD wired into my computer that I'm not using yet :-)
<awilkins> Because reinstalling Windows is going to be such a hassle
<daftykins> how come o0
<daftykins> it's just lovely ;)
<daftykins> i'm letting this new Lenovo backup its' factory image to a spare external HDD right now
<awilkins> But but, you couldn't possibly want to *get rid of* the factory supplied OS ?!?!??!?!
<awilkins> daftykins, in seriousness... I have a fairly old Ubuntu install on here as my main productivity OS, as well as Windows for the games
<awilkins> I've got about a TB of installed games and a bunch of tweaks to my Ubuntu install
<awilkins> Including software installed in /opt etc
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Giving Tuesday, and happy Bifocals at the Monitor Liberation Day! ð
<awilkins> Just planning the new partition table and whether I go for plain SSD + Spinning rust or   SSD as  Intel RST cache / dm-cache for the spinning rust is daunting
<davmor2> JamesTait: you're just going out of your way to be obtuse with these now aren't you
<zmoylan-pi>  no no obtuse day is next year sometime :-)
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, probably.
<JamesTait> davmor2, I picked that one just for you. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: this has to be the ultimate in glasses wearers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePiGVI2Hs-g  now to find a song
<JamesTait> davmor2, if that's Timmy Mallett, I'm getting in my car and coming down the A38 to hit you.
<davmor2> JamesTait: it was tempting but I went with the more bareable glasses wearer instead
<JamesTait> How on earth did he wear those and keep a straight face?
<JamesTait> Maybe didn't have a choice - he couldn't raise a smile under that weight.
<zmoylan-pi> probably cocaine...
<davmor2> JamesTait: got a song on glasses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ah9_cw7MS4
<MooDoo> https://youtu.be/YiVMmAk45oY mwahahahahahahahaha
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski will send you to the naughty step
<czajkowski> it's a full step at this stage
<davmor2> czajkowski: here you go a song on glasses just for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IEas-ou4c
<davmor2> JamesTait: Hah just thought of the perfect song, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU that's me covered for the day thank you very much indeed
<zmoylan-pi> here, this'll get you in the mood... https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/sht-happens-sometimes-47.jpg?quality=94&strip=info&w=600 :-)
<JamesTait> czajkowski, tell me you weren't singing along to Let It Go. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: hey dude don't deny it you were dressed up prancing around your office to it, the web cam never lies ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, it's CD 2 Track 1 on a compilation my wife bought for the car.  The number of times I've trolled my boys with that - it just never gets old.  I've grown to like the song.
<davmor2> JamesTait: and you can't help but sing to it, she can deny it all she wants but we know the truth
<JamesTait> It is one to sing along to.
<foobarry> perl weenies: how do i check if a variable contains the $ sign?
<foobarry> do i need to escape it?
<pwaring> foobarry: Depends how you're searching for it
<pwaring> With a regex, yes you will need to escape it because $ has a special meaning
<Laney> I need a hashing system for hostnames to terminal colours
<Laney> so that I can colour them differently in prompts
<Laney> anyone got such a thing?
<pwaring> hmm, I think you can do that in zsh
<diddledan_> foobarry: a quick easy web-based way of determining the ttl of a dns record: http://api.statdns.com/example.com/a where /example.com is the domain to check and /a is the record-type to check
<davmor2> JamesTait: that's not trolling them, making them sing "The timewarp" In costume that's trolling them
<foobarry> diddledan_: thanks i was missing the -v on the host cmd
<diddledan_> aah
<diddledan_> foobarry: the web-thingy I linked can be used by a lot of stuff due to being JSON output, but for human readable I would guess host would be simpler and quicker
<diddledan_> here's ubuntu.com for example usage: http://api.statdns.com/ubuntu.com/a
<diddledan_> looks like I was wrong tho - the ttl used to be static on that api but now seems to be changing per cache
<Laney> pwaring: reference appreciated if you have one :)
 * Laney is playing Godspeed at 11
<Laney> it's making my desk vibrate
<Laney> bet this sounds like terrible noise to anyone else
<pwaring> Laney: I haven't used zsh much but I have these links bookmarked
<pwaring> https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-syntax-highlighting
<pwaring> https://git.gitano.org.uk/personal/dsilvers/resources.git/tree/zsh
<Laney> some people spend a lot of time tweaking these things
 * Laney is thankful for such people
<MooDoo> :)
<daftykins> Laney: ...you black emperor?
<Laney> indeed
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> The car is on fire, there's no driver at the wheel.
<diddledan_> o_O
<daftykins> hi dan!
<DJones> Ugh....Windows 10 update
<daftykins> on 7? 8?
<DJones> Gone from 7 to 10
<DJones> Works laptop
<awilkins> Did you upgrade, or fresh install?
<awilkins> Apparently the installer permits an activation with a Win7 key now
<DJones> Its an upgrade, first impressions are that its not too bad, just feels slow
<awilkins> I just think NTFS gets slow unless you bleach it once in a while
<awilkins> Is it indexing things?
<DJones> Doesn't seem to be
<awilkins> My Win7 install spends about 5 minutes churning the disk when I start up, gets so slow that even keypresses take a few seconds to register while you're typing
<daftykins> :( smells like a horrid mechanical disk to me, that :D
<MooDoo> dpeends on memory as well, my laptop with a upgrade and 8gb seems ok
<awilkins> 16GB in both my main GUI machines
<awilkins> Mostly so I can run a Windows VM in Linux and give it enough RAM not to chug
<awilkins> (4GB seems to be the minimum these days)
<pwaring> 4GB is enough to run Windows 8
<pwaring> At least in a VM on my machine
<awilkins> Yeah, 2GB and it was swapping to disk when you started a productivity app
<awilkins> (Win 7 pro in a VM)
<awilkins> And 4GB and it was crowding my available RAM on Linux (at 8GB of physical RAM) so I shoved a couple more sticks in there
<diddledan_> adobe are renaming flash to adobe animate cc
<diddledan_> ref: https://blogs.adobe.com/flashpro/welcome-adobe-animate-cc-a-new-era-for-flash-professional/
<awilkins> That's just the creation app, though, no hint they're renaming Flash Player
<awilkins> As much as I'd like to say "Look! They want to get away from the negative image of Flash!!!"
<daftykins> i suppose there'll be no more quiet eminatings of "ah-aaaaaaah" in our heads anymore without flash :(
<diddledan_> I'm more interested in their effort to move to html5 output rather than swf than bashing the flash player
<awilkins> I'm.... concerned
<awilkins> It would be terrible to be inundated with thousands of enormous HTML5 ads that you can't block with FlashBlock any more...
 * zmoylan-pi fires up lynx browser and awaits the onslaught of html5 adverts... :-)
<diddledan_> deadpool looks hilarious
<brobosti1on> good afternoon all.
<DJones> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/google-decides-to-end-support-for-google-chrome-on-32-bit-linux-oses-496934.shtml
<zmoylan-pi> lynx it is :-)
<DJones> But they're still supporting the 32 bit Chromium builds
<SuperMatt> now that chrome are doing it, it's about time that *everything* dropped 32 bit
<SuperMatt> google are well in tune with 2 things, technology and money. If they've decided it's too expensive to support 32 bit, it's probably too expensive for everyone else
<DJones> I wonder what my chances of getting Google Chrom for an 8 bit Commodore Vic 20 are
<diddledan_> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> there is a web browser for c64 iirc
<zmoylan-pi> but it need those extra 60k of ram...
<SuperMatt> just reading through the announcement, it seems that they're just dropping support for 32bit Ubuntu, and for 12.04 and below, so it's not really killing off 32 bit for everyone
<diddledan_> I don't get why 32bit is still the default for lots of software - even 64bit packages on windows usually have 32bit software with maybe one or two supporting things that are 64bit - e.g. drivers: the driver itself is 64bit enough to get loaded into windows' kernel but everything else is 32bit
<SuperMatt> 32 bit has got to go :(
<diddledan_> ^ that!
<diddledan_> I think intel had the right idea with replacing x86 entirely with itanium
<zmoylan-pi> nothing wrong with 32bit... more than enough
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you still use a nokia tho
<zmoylan-pi> i may be a *smidge* biased :-)
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: so I'm not sure you're quite the target audience for "modern"
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't make me wrong though...
<diddledan_> you need to listen to linux luddites podcast which has the tagline "we review all the new stuff and decide we like the old stuff better"
<awilkins> Naah, I've been dealing with problem domains that definitely need 64-bit address spaces
<zmoylan-pi> at least with open source the problem solves itself as the commercial market moves on a small goup of dedicated nutters keeps 32 bit afloat :-)
<awilkins> Just Java programs that need a large heap are an example
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: you're referring to yourself with the term "nutters"?
<diddledan_> java >.<
<awilkins> e.g. dealing with a large graph like SNOMED CT which has ~ 500k nodes and 1.5M edges
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i prefer 8 bit instead of this fancy schmancy 32 silliness :-D
<awilkins> On Windows, 32-bit java heap space is limited to around 1.2GB
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I believe there's still 8088 chips available
<diddledan_> java is a pain with it's memory allocator from what I can tell
<awilkins> You can DO things with SNOMED CT in that space, if you write really tight code (I wrote a special collection class)
<diddledan_> it refuses to let the OS do it's job with allocations and just reserves a chunk which it carves-up internally
<awilkins> The Hotspot VM wants contiguous address space : Windows plonks a massive block in the middle of address space you're not allowed to use
 * zmoylan-pi waits for https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX to become viable... :-)
<diddledan_> yeah, I just don't get why that's a good idea on the part of the Hotspot VM
<awilkins> Presumably it's because the VM is essentially pretending to be a computer
<awilkins> And having to deal with the different malloc() quirks of different OSs is annoying
<awilkins> Having a VM that can reserve multiple blocks of RAM is probably regarded as a moot point now
<awilkins> Because 64-bit is a thing
<zmoylan-pi> and 128bit last time i looked at processors talk
<awilkins> 128-bit address spaces are for the insane physics professors
<zmoylan-pi> or the cosmologists...
<awilkins> I was lumping them in with the former
<diddledan_> physicians :-p
<zmoylan-pi> then the use of word insane is redundant :-)
<diddledan_> you might get away with using the term "wonks"?
<diddledan_> i.e. physics wonks
<zmoylan-pi> boffins has unfortunately fallen out of favour...
<diddledan_> :-(
<diddledan_> boffin or "boff" was used as an insult when I was at school :-(
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/671716706717446145
<awilkins> Kittens : http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06qzmw4/meet-the-kittens-episode-1
<awilkins> (have just get_iplayered the lot, so I can go "Awwwwwwwww" and cheer myself up)
<awilkins> Episode 1 is a bit pants
<awilkins> They're too small and not active enough to be interesting
<zmoylan-pi> then watch simons cat... https://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
<diddledan_> lol @ microsoft trying to be friendly: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/01/microsofts-holiday-ad-peace/
<awilkins> Would love it if Apple responded to "Peace" with "WAR"
<zmoylan-pi> would have loved if some crazy tux costumed linux user legged it in and photobombed the shoot :-)
<daftykins> i have just been to pinch the Surface Pro 4 :o
<daftykins> wow it's light
<diddledan_> :-)
<daftykins> they're very snazzily made
<daftykins> this pen thing is quite funny :P
<daftykins> i'm using it to avoid smudging up the screen
<diddledan_> draw us a picture :-)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers using stylus on psions and palms and cleaning the screen maybe once a week at most..,
<diddledan_> pen != stylus :-p
<zmoylan-pi> but android and iphones are icky and need to be wiped much more often...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx5by5jfb1dq4nq/IMG_20151201_162115.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> *cough*
<diddledan_> :-p
<daftykins> well err, there's a new one on me
<daftykins> i got it to boot the newer win10 build flash drive, but naturally no input works ;)
<awilkins> The Palm screen was grey/green at the back though
<awilkins> Wouldn't show the fingerprints
<zmoylan-pi> oh it did but the os was designed to be more efficent with stlus
<zmoylan-pi> *stylus
<awilkins> Yeah, I liked Graffiti (1)
<awilkins> Such a pity they had to alter it because of a patent claim
<daftykins> the above drawing was really impressive, it genuinely felt like i had a pen on paper
<zmoylan-pi> which was eventually ruled bogus but they stuck with grafitti 2
<awilkins> Happily you could plunk a copy of the old library on and get Graffiti 1 (at least on the Palm III(
<awilkins> I still have my Palm III somewhere
<awilkins> And because it used removable AAA batteries, it doesn't have a dead battery pack.
<awilkins> I so wanted them to port PalmOS to the Nintendo DS
<zmoylan-pi> i had a visor neo with an added sd card slot... great device
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> after my iiic after my iiix
<diddledan_> daftykins: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkw7wyaxstadh24/Microsoft-Edge-Web-Notes--ubuntu-u171008984.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan_> heh @ my email
<diddledan_> oops :-p
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> we knew it anyway ;)
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> tis fairly guessable :-D
<zmoylan-pi> and in response to your greeting... http://imgur.com/feMoCPI :-D
<diddledan_> I find it odd that some services use knowing the email address as a viable proof that you're allowed to reset a password
<diddledan_> especially when they say something like "complete the email 'da*********@bowlhat.net'"
<diddledan_> I wonder how much a 48inch super-wide touchscreen would cost
<diddledan_> (to combine with a surface)
<zmoylan-pi> depends on the truck it fell out of the back off... :-)
<diddledan_> I like lots of desktop
<zmoylan-pi> you'd be scrolling for days to get the mouse cursor all the way from one side of screen to other...
<diddledan_> I've got two 24inch thingies right now so it wouldn't be anything different
<zmoylan-pi> i used to have a little program that would change the sensitivity for people i liked to annoy... :-P
<diddledan_> isn't that built-in?
<zmoylan-pi> 1-2 a week set to slow.... at random...
<zmoylan-pi> kept my boss amused...
<zmoylan-pi> he kept thinking it was a faulty mouse and had a huge pile on his desk
<zmoylan-pi> that and using vnc to move his mouse cursor a few mm to the right just before he clicked...
<diddledan_> oh dear : https://twitter.com/WhatsTrending/status/671705583800688640
<awilkins> Hahahahahah
<zmoylan-pi> not the only ones to slip up... http://s198.photobucket.com/user/dailyfuzzone/media/brown.png.html
<diddledan_> I think that one is fake
<zmoylan-pi> http://uk.complex.com/style/2014/08/logos-that-are-accidentally-sexually-explicit/deccan-engineering-enterprise
<zmoylan-pi> no it's just a mirror image of the zune logo.  i remember it on the day it was launched as someone noticed it reflection of their bag and pointed it out online iirc
<zmoylan-pi> and once you've seen it you can't unsee it...
<diddledan_> I really should stop following sourceforge on the twits
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/sourceforge/status/671736313503195136 <-- apparently customising your web browser involves completely replacing
<diddledan_> I'm betting they're promoting that because they have a spyware/adware in the installer
<pwaring> diddledan_: I no longer download anything from SF
<pwaring> Which is sad, because it was once the old GitHub
<diddledan_> yeah
<diddledan_> hmm, so if a hard disk dies and I've not backed-it-up can I sue Western Digital for compensation now? re: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/pensioner-wins-compensation-after-apple-wipes-his-photos/ar-AAfSTJm?ocid=spartandhp
<diddledan_> http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=10_7
<diddledan_> deary be
<diddledan_> lol @ http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=0_11
<daftykins> domain seems legit
<diddledan_> NSFW, but I can totally see winston saying this: http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=12_1
<daftykins> he was quite lost if he needed to call the US services
<diddledan_> http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=2_6
<diddledan_> good ol' aristotle
<diddledan_> then there's gandhi: http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=5_5
<diddledan_> from clicking a few times, the id is <person>_<quote>
<diddledan_> so http://definitelyrealquotes.com/?id=5_6 is the same quote as aristotle
<sebsebseb> hi
<diddledan_> I love these two geeks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSjL1lrNAx4
<diddledan_> "a browser could send a message to say 'could you not, mate?'."
<diddledan_> https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/671752256975323136
<daftykins> i had to tag in iTunes for Windows the other day
<daftykins> if you have "Artist blah" and you want to delete blah, it won't let you highlight " blah"
<daftykins> or rather it does, but pressing delete or backspace does nothing
<daftykins> it was a fine experience
<daftykins> oh then i plugged in the clients' 3 iPods and it recognised none, so all 3 had to be wiped and synced from scratch
<daftykins> :D
<bittin> http://foss-sthlm.haxx.se/rms2016.html
<diddledan_> yeah, we don't speak swedish
<zmoylan-pi> bork? :-P
<diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UmUX68KtE
<diddledan_> der popper der corn
<diddledan_> I need to watch the start warts saga from end-to-end before the new film drops in a couple weeks
<diddledan_> ergh, and it's my brother's birthday soon. need to find something gifty
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan_> don't you love how supervillians have as their real names things like "victor von doom"
<diddledan_> (/me watching fantastic four)
<zmoylan-pi> it's the number of them who seem to have phd's that worries me.  what sort of people are colleges and universities accepting?!
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> good point
<zmoylan-pi> so under goals on your admission forms you have 'world conquest' fair enough we have lectures on doomsday devices once a week...
<diddledan_> :-)
<diddledan_> "I see you have a lack of empathy listed in your psychological profile. how would you like a team to boss around?"
<zmoylan-pi> all new team members get a free t-shirt with their blood group printed on it...
<zmoylan-pi> of course if they try and sign up for a msce then we would know they are going to do evil... :-P
<diddledan_> oh god, that's a whole different level of evil altogether
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: oh just seen that from earlier, well I do speak SWedish
<diddledan_> anyone who can subject themselves to that amount of self-flagellation is destined to subject the world to unheard-of pain
<zmoylan-pi> they'd use ms office with clippy turned *ON*...
<diddledan_> sebsebseb: can you translate the swedish chef in the muppets?
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: O..M..G!!
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: some of it just sound stupid, but I got TV on in background to so
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: but yes I could transltae most actsual Swedish into ENglish
<sebsebseb> speech
<zmoylan-pi> and if that's not a straight to a rubber room with a stick between their teeth i don't know what is...
<diddledan_> lol @ actual swedish - I'm guessing the chef isn't actual then
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: I'll watch it properly hold on
<sebsebseb> or properly enough
<sebsebseb> ,but some of it just sound stupid
<diddledan_> der poppen der korn
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: there's also ENglish in the video you linked to as well by the way
<diddledan_> der shrimpie
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: yes the chef is just speaking made up stuff it seems, that's not SWedish
<diddledan_> I figured :-)
<sebsebseb> who has a Ubuntu phone here :d ?
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: look what Youtube bought up after the muppet video heh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP-MbfHFUqs
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> gotta love prediction algorithms
<sebsebseb> diddledan_: used to hear that one in the car sometimes, as a kid, on the way to the zoo :d heh
<diddledan_> oh dear: http://www.geek.com/games/amds-new-crimson-drivers-are-overheating-and-damaging-graphics-cards-1640676/
<daftykins> apparently nvidia did it once too
<diddledan_> yey?
<diddledan_> surely on these cold nights it's good to have a few extra watts of heat, no?
<daftykins> not when the machine topples over i suppose :>
<daftykins> hmm, i never really thought about it before but if you've got some general compute task running on a graphics card, can the rest lock up and yet the program keep going on the card? :D
<diddledan_> no idea
<daftykins> then the result is trapped!
<diddledan_> don't you love how politicians think it's best not to investigate politicians? https://twitter.com/the_intercept/status/671788224117874693
<diddledan_> ouch, popey has a terrible connection speed today according to his twits!
<diddledan_> (almost wrote that as "according to his tits" before I spotted and corrected)
<diddledan_> ref: https://twitter.com/popey/status/671765284689158144
<diddledan_> 0.4Mbps is TERRIBLE
<diddledan_> still there's a whole 31% of the UK that are slower than that?!
<diddledan_> yeesh
<popey> stupid internets
 * diddledan_ pets
<diddledan_> perhaps you've been overworking it and it needs a rest
<diddledan_> anthropomorphic modems for the win!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-02
<diddledan_> oh no! humpty dumpty fell off his wall!
<daftykins> diddledan_: D: not his wall!
<daftykins> also you appear to have clones
<diddledan> yes! his wall!
<zmoylan-pi> that's just diddledan, always cloning around...
<daftykins> hehe yeah, if i had a guernsey Â£1 note for every time...
<daftykins> hmm i'm debating going down the working man's cafe when it opens at 6am for a good fry up!
<zmoylan-pi> you'd have a lot of money that would take forever to spend on mainland as you'd have to explain it's real money each and every time... :-)
<daftykins> it's refused :(
<zmoylan-pi> i thought it was like northern ireland or scottish money, legit in england?
<diddledan> don't be silly. he prints them himself
<daftykins> i got roped into going to a clients' cleaners place to look at a dodgy router in a house shared by about 8 Latvian immigrant folks
<daftykins> halp...
<diddledan> oh dear
<daftykins> hmm some place predicts that by 2017 SSDs will cost only 7p per GB more than HDDs
<MartijnVdS> sounds  about right
<zmoylan-pi> i _might_ have ssd by then :-)
<MartijnVdS> 1TB SSDs are â¬200 now
<daftykins> 3D NAND has been the saviour for sure
<daftykins> so Mozilla are giving Thunderbird the chop :O
<zmoylan-pi> i miss hardcards... a hard disk stuck on a wafer thin daughter board wobbling over your mother board like a sword of damocles... :-)
<diddledan> I want an NVMe epeen
<diddledan> moar disk!
<daftykins> i find it odd how i had to update that thar Surface
<daftykins> still had to select to murder the old OS backup in disk cleanup, too
<daftykins> do the factory reset type options do much on surfaces?
<diddledan> I'm dirty
<diddledan> I'm messing about with visual studio
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> never played with surface wiping options then, sir?
<diddledan> nope
<daftykins> your kitchen must be a bacteria playground! ;D
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> it hardens the immune system... and they have shares in andrex... :-P
<MooDoo> hello all
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> howdy davmor2
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc_> g'day
<daftykins> o/
<brobostigon> morning bashrc_ and daftykins
<daftykins> no sign of the posties :(
<brobostigon> :(
<MooDoo> daftykins: waiting for goodies?
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> an SSD that was on amazon's deals, a Nexus 5 LCD from China and more
<Myrtti> I was impressed by the speed the Moto360 made its way from China
<Myrtti> I think we ordered it on Thursday evening and it arrived yesterday
<daftykins> free shipping off ebay here, so it said 1-17 December
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Wednesday, and happy International Day for the Abolition of Slavery! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: not exactly slavery but I think the sentiment is right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU
<davmor2> JamesTait: and then there is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH1CMCtV4to which is a slavery people don't mind so much ;)
<Myrtti> I can't remember the name of the pdf annotation app that I used years and years ago... gah
<davmor2> Myrtti: foxit/okular/xournal/evince all do it off the top of my head
<Myrtti> xournal, thassit
<Myrtti> I don't think evince does any
<davmor2> Myrtti: https://help.gnome.org/users/evince/stable/annotations.html.en
<davmor2> Myrtti: just not so pretty
<davmor2> Myrtti: glad to be of help anyway :)
<Myrtti> ah right
<Myrtti> thank you
<awilkins> IME Okular is the best Linux PDF viewer that does annotations
<awilkins> The evince annotations are done in an external file and don't translate to Adobe's PDF reader
<awilkins> Okular annotations are done in the standard PDF/A way and do carry over
<davmor2> awilkins: personally I think pdftk is the best ;)
<davmor2> awilkins: xournal is the same iirc
<awilkins> Xournal is a PDF viewer?
<awilkins> And pdftk is Windows only AFAICT
<Myrtti> doctor's wants some of my papers and I needed to translate them a bit, so annotations it is
<davmor2> awilkins: sudo apt install pdftk it was on linux first ;)
<awilkins> Those wags at PDF Labs
<davmor2> awilkins: it's a cli tool that uses cat seriously you think that was a windows only tool :)
<awilkins> I think combined media notetaking apps are sadly deficient, TBH
<awilkins> But I don;t have a coherent plan to improve them without thinking hard about it
<davmor2> awilkins: I think most of the tutuorials you find online are windows only cause linux users know how to read man pages and use --help :)
<foobarry> wow, good guy zuckerburg
 * SuperEngineer notices his name must be in code in Zuckerburg's letter as it's not mentioned specifically- supposes he doesn't want to embarrass me
<foobarry> people need to stop using foo
<foobarry> found a file /tmp/foo with 2 different logs in
<foobarry> somebody did a blah > /tmp/foo
<foobarry> somebody else did a script that opened /tmp/foo and wrote more stuff
<SuperEngineer> would you rather they used /tmp/barry foobarry?
<foobarry> yes
<SuperEngineer> ;-)
<davmor2> they could use foobar
<foobarry> its all naughty
<foobarry> use proper file names in production
<davmor2> foobarry: no
<foobarry> :0
<davmor2> foobarry: the issue is lots of people just copy paste  the examples from the internet without thinking I'll call the file x.log instead of foo
<foobarry> this was a script written inhouse
<foobarry> not sure if my biggest gripe is that foo is undescriptive as a log name, or is common so might get splatted by another unimaginative person
<diplo> Bit of nboth probably foobarry
<diplo> -n
<diplo> You would hate to see all our internal and customer servers, you'd probably scream ( i do :D )
<foobarry> been screaming a lot already today
<foobarry> ny NFS server is extremly slow
<foobarry> like bytes/sec instead of 1Gb/s
<foobarry> something is afoot
<diplo> I've never got on with NFS, then again not used it in years
<diplo> Always had issues with speeds
<MooDoo> I use NFS for my storage/backup solutions, it seems ok for what I want until I just get a single NAS and remove all my servers
<foobarry> gonna use async option
<diplo> bigcalm: hadn't checked on letsencypt for a while, ta fanx
<diplo> Set up and ready to try tomorrow night :)
<SuperMatt> my website is signed by let's encrypt
<SuperMatt> I found a bug in it, submitted a patch, and then got it accepted :)
<SuperMatt> it didn't like TLDs longer than 6 characters, but with the new TLDs, they can be as long as 63
<SuperMatt> .digital was just too longer for LE until I came along ;)
<diplo> Good man :) opensource in action
<SuperMatt> I was dead proud of myself :)
<SuperMatt> it's a shame it's still in closed beta, but it's quite easy to find the form
<diddledan> m00
<diddledan> it goes public tomorrow afaik
<foobarry> how do i know if my nfs mount is async or sync?
<foobarry> doesn't want to tell me
<diplo> yup it does, at 6pm on the 3rd GMT
<SuperMatt> if it doesn't tell you, it's the default
<SuperMatt> which you could probably find by running "man mount.nfs"
<foobarry> yeah, nothing there
 * diddledan still messing in MS Visual Studio >.<
<diddledan> it's actually not bad
<SuperMatt> foobarry: man nfs might tell you
<davmor2> diddledan: don't make me get out of this chair.....
<SuperMatt> I think it's in async mode
<SuperMatt> "If neither sync nor async is specified (or if the async option is specified), the NFS client..."
<diddledan> davmor2, I hear that. sitting ftw
<SuperMatt> which suggests async is the default
<foobarry> i was just reading that bit
<foobarry> doesn't look like async is my problem then
<SuperMatt> have you tried doing cat /etc/mtab?
<SuperMatt> that should expand all the options beyond just their defaults
<SuperMatt> though I could be wrong
<foobarry> rw,relatime,vers=4.0,rsize=1048576,wsize=1048576,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,port=0,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=192.168.42.15,local_lock=none,addr=192.168.42.21 0 0
<foobarry> win 9
<SuperMatt> I'm almost certain async is the default
<SuperMatt> but you've moved on past that, obviously
<diddledan> oh dear, that global-ish message doesn't sound fun
<diddledan> "appears a hub went boom"!!
<SuperMatt> they're pretty quick kon the notification there
<SuperMatt> 10 minutes it's very good
<diddledan> indeed. very good response for a volunteer effort
<daftykins> wussat?
<diddledan> daftykins, freenode is broke
<diddledan> daftykins, someone lost a hub
<daftykins> ah
 * daftykins checks the status window
<daftykins> there it is!
<zmoylan-pi> they've been taken over by the peoples front of judea...
<diddledan> the popular peoples front of judea**
<diddledan> not to be confused with the peoples front of popular judea
<zmoylan-pi> nah, they're just splitters...
<diddledan> bignose!
<zmoylan-pi> blessed are the cheesemakers...
<zmoylan-pi>  /n
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-03
<daftykins> good morning everyone
<Myrtti> blarg
<daftykins> i'm currently enjoying an island wide broadband service issue :)
<daftykins> which is amusingly timed since i've been asked to go and look at someones router and wifi problems tday...
<MooDoo> morning all
<apt-get-moo> mornin'
<daftykins> yay all back to normal
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i doff my cap to you, sir o/
<davmor2> One dost appreciate the doffing of ones cap, good sir, allow me to reciprocate with a genteel nod of approval
 * daftykins blushes
<davmor2> got this stuck in my head this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gx1Pv02w3Q
<daftykins> what a delightfully 90s nose ring :D
<Myrtti> I've got this in my head. It features popey. https://youtu.be/7oKPYe53h78
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> http://imgur.com/XAm4dT2
<Myrtti> sorry, not sorry
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> okay irssi users if I want to save all the channels I currently have open so they autoconnect is there a way to be able to do that without having to add them all manually
<davmor2> the only info I find is how to do it one channel at a time from the docs
<foobarry> /save ?
<foobarry> never have much success tbh
<davmor2> foobarry: Yeah I've done that before
<Myrtti> hold on...
<davmor2> ah might of found it
<Myrtti> http://www.irssi.org/documentation/tips
<Myrtti> ctrl-f foreach
<davmor2> Myrtti: yeap that's where I'm at thanks, the main docs were the ones auto adding a single channel
<davmor2> \o/ Myrtti thanks for the confirm :)
<Myrtti> np, sorry it took so long
<Myrtti> Sproutboy â¥
<davmor2> Myrtti: sometime I worry about you ;)
<Myrtti> haven't you seen sproutboy yet?
<Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0394f0k/sprout-boy-christmas-on-bbc-one
<davmor2> Myrtti: sorry no flash player so saved from that, er I mean, so unfortunately I can't see that ;)
<brobostigon> get-iplayer to the rescue, :)
<directhex> Myrtti: wat :|
<Myrtti> directhex: hm?
<directhex> 11:08 <Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0394f0k/sprout-boy-christmas-on-bbc-one
<Myrtti> issa sproutboy!
<popey> fwiw youtube-dl can also do iplayer dumps :)
<foobarry> yeah i prefer it
<popey> awwwww that's super!
<popey> not seen it before
<Myrtti> sproutboy has replaced helicopter, umbrellas and hippos as the Channel One intro filler
<foobarry> makes me gassy just thinking about sprouts
<popey> might have to buy some sprouts now
<popey> the Sprout Marketing Board clearly at work!
<foobarry> i can't imagine them tasting any different from their awful smell
<DJones> Seeing the mention of sprouts, I saw this being reported the other day http://www.nottinghampost.com/Super-size-sprouts-supermarket-shelves-bumper/story-28263718-detail/story.html
<SuperMatt> I'm watching the sproutboy video without sound, and I get the jist that nobody likes sprouts
<DJones> I must be the exception, I love sprouts, probably my favorite green  vegatable
<davmor2> SuperMatt: see you can stop watching now, it's just Rudolph in sprout form
<SuperMatt> ... what is wrong with you DJones ?
<SuperMatt> so, we can surmise from the video that christmas on the BBC is placing all its bets on: Doctor Who, The Voice, Eastenders, Strictly, Sherlock, and Mary Berry
<daftykins> i love sprouts, cauliflower and broccoli :)
<SuperMatt> I cannot stand sprouts. I'm looking forward to just spending christmas day with my missus. She wants duck, and I'm damn well going to give her duck
<SuperMatt> I'm glad I used the correct vowel in those ducks
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> indeed, one slip of the finger and diddledan would've woken up
<zmoylan-pi> vowel...?
<SuperMatt> aeiou
<davmor2> SuperMatt: is she ducking to avoid the sprouts you throw at her?
<SuperMatt> I'm not going to have any sprouts in my flat at all
<SuperMatt> I point blank refuse
<zmoylan-pi> and zero ducks were given...
<SuperMatt> exactly
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you're just quackers
<zmoylan-pi> pretty fowl at least...
<daftykins> SuperMatt: so uh, remind me of your address again so i can send a... christmas card...
 * daftykins bulk orders sprouts
<daftykins> :D
<SuperMatt> Â¬.Â¬
<zmoylan-pi> and hide them in cabbages for maximum stealth...
<zmoylan-pi> or inside rubber ducks so SuperMatt knows it's you... :-)
<SuperMatt> please, noooooo!
<MooDoo> https://youtu.be/TxVQAj3SdF0 - You're welcome davmor2 :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: funny but this is my favourite xmas based animal carol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIzPF3BfpQ
<Myrtti> netgear NAS on Amazon lightning deals
<daftykins> ooh a 4 bay!
<daftykins> not saving too much off standard, to be fair
<daftykins> what-o mapps
<davmor2> daftykins: that so sounds like a new UK based mapping site ;)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'm taking that, no copying!
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't it be where-o?
<daftykins> true, that
<daftykins> or i could just use the Guernsey patois term "Warro" which is local-ese for 'Hello' informally to friends
<zmoylan-pi> what-o would be more a pub/grub/entertainment locater site :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: and tally-ho would be hunt riding maps
<zmoylan-pi> hi-ho for dwarf location services...
<zmoylan-pi> hi-de-ho for nearest holiday camp...
 * daftykins does the "yet another failed disk identified" dance
<davmor2> I can identify the disk easily it's that broken one right there /me points
<daftykins> :D
 * zmoylan-pi listens for the drive making scrapy sounds...
<zmoylan-pi> or making too much vibration...
<zmoylan-pi> or who's motor struggles to spin up and down
<zmoylan-pi> or who's chitter noises have changed...
<zmoylan-pi> or makes no noise whatsoever...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: it's so much harder with ssd's :)
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, it might be a big reason i stick with spinning metal/glass
<zmoylan-pi> i can tell what's wrong with it by sound/vibration alone and have ideas for one last read of it's data...
<zmoylan-pi> i once put a hard disk in bubble wrap at small of my back for 2-3 hours to heat it up slowly to get it working one last time :-)
<diddledan> webdevs have to unlearn everything they learnt about speed for websites with http/2
<diddledan> quote from cloudflare: "Much of the website optimization for HTTP/1.1 revolves around minimizing the number of TCP connections with the server. This results in practices like concatenating multiple CSS or JavaScript files into a single file, combining multiple image files into a single spritesheet, and spreading your websiteâs assets across multiple domains (sharding). Many of these techniques are no longer necessary in HTTP/2, and some of them can, 
<daftykins> some of them can, ?
<diddledan> yeah, combining css into a single minified blob, e.g., where the browser has to download everything on the first hit and if a single character changes in any of the constituent files the entire blob needs to be reloaded
<zmoylan-pi> that sounds... efficient...
<diddledan> that's why we NEED HTTP/2
<diddledan> but it means re-learning
<zmoylan-pi> as long as that doesn't break lynx... :-)
<diddledan> combining all css into a single file was the best we could do in 1.1 days because it reduced the number of connections which meant that on aggregate it loaded faster
<diddledan> with http2 we need to realise that connection-limits are gone
<diddledan> apple has finally made swift opensource: https://swift.org
<diddledan> I've been working-hard on some .net stuff >.< https://github.com/DEVSENSE/Phalanger/pull/59
<diddledan> php for .net - I've been making it installable at the project-level rather than requiring system-level installation
<diddledan> ooh, the buntu podcast is waiting to be listened-to
 * diddledan loves the theme tune
<diddledan> php 7 is out!!!! :-o https://secure.php.net/archive/2015.php#id2015-12-03-1
<diddledan> flaming ballockets on nasatv: http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
<zmoylan-pi> swirly thing alert?
<zmoylan-pi> ah.... firey thing alert...
<diddledan> "there's a red thingy moving towards the green thingy.. I think we're the green thigny"
<diddledan> alternatively "oh no, you did not shoot that green **it at me!"
<zmoylan-pi> it's so much fun to have conversations from ancient comics, books, tv shows and movies and know exactly what the other is talking about...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> of course the swirly thing, we might have to move to amber alert
<diddledan> tho that means changing the bulb
<zmoylan-pi> we once had to stop gaming for 15 minutes when i tried to speed up an explanation of a characters limited understanding of a written message with their low reading skill as 'something something oranges something'... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and of course in every group there is someone who doesn't understand why everyone else is laughing...
<diddledan> it sucks to be that person
<zmoylan-pi> a few sessions back a gamer and the dm couldn't agree on an interpretation of the rules and the player wondered how they could resolve it.  they weren't a fan of south park so i suggested to the dm they roshambo for it which almost led to it happening... :-D
<diddledan> launch scrubbed
<zmoylan-pi> when i saw rain on camera lens it didn't bode well...
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> pssh, rockets don't care! 'tis but a splash! ;)
<diddledan> lol http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/destroying-death-star-would-crash-galactic-economy
<daftykins> diddledan: another dead disk earlier this evening btw ;)
<diddledan> oh dear
<daftykins> identified in #ubuntu that is
<daftykins> oooooh i so hope the posties come tomorrow
<daftykins> i'm convinced my stuff has been pinched :P
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-04
<diddledan__> humpy bumpy boo
<daftykins> diddledan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/toqqrifxm1bys7a/IMG_20151204_011355.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> it's officially cold, now
<diddledan__> awww
<diddledan__> so cute
<diddledan__> I would love something like that humansized
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> do you have any idea how big the claws would be O_O
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> I was referring to the snuggly, not the feline :-p
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan__> so apparently yahoo messenger still exists
<daftykins> yup, brings me back to my youth that one
<daftykins> horrific smilies, everyone was 14/f/cali...
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> 14/f/cali <-- that takes me back
<diddledan__> the other one was aol instant messenger
<daftykins> i always resisted that one!
<diddledan__> lol
<daftykins> i don't think my time on ICQ was long either
<diddledan__> I never really got along with ICQ
<diddledan__> tho I still remember my number
<daftykins> same
<diddledan__> I used their IRC service for many years however
<diddledan__> that was where I met shauno
<daftykins> i remember watching a 'TV series' based on IRC + ICQ chat, (the scene) which always had them using the 'off/on the record' addon for ICQ or some such
<daftykins> looked like tinfoilers to me ;D
<diddledan__> lol, I remember that
<diddledan__> was entirely based on screen recordings IIRC
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> sometimes webcams
<diddledan__> I recall ICQ had an evil typewriter noise for every time you pressed a button
<daftykins> ah my #1 action on installing IM was to 1) disable emoticons 2) disable sounds 3) disable notifications
<m0nkey_> diddledan__, your plex is broken
<diddledan__> m0nkey_: might be bandwidth restriction of my pipe?
<diddledan__> you could try fiddling with the transcoding settings
<m0nkey_> I can't get anything to play
<diddledan__> hmm
<m0nkey_> Let alone fiffle with it.
<m0nkey_> I meant to say fiddle, but fiffle seems more appropriate.
<m0nkey_> ok, now it works
<diddledan__> odd. I just loaded the local webui, but haven't done anything else
<m0nkey_> I've just realised I've never fully watched Star Wars Ep4
<m0nkey_> Ugh, Microsoft are switching from per socket to per core licensing on Server 2016..
<m0nkey_> OK, your Star Wars episodes are messed up. Ep4 is playing Ep1, Phantom Menace.
<diddledan__> \o/
<diddledan__> that was a sneaky attempt to prove that jarjar is awesome :-p
<m0nkey_> Bastard.
<diddledan__> ok, I lie. but it's still funny
<m0nkey_> I'll go back to Fallout 4
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<Oli> Anybody know a DVB-S2 USB or PCI whatsit that has a mainline driver? I'm fed up of relying on TBS's rubbish drivers to compile.
<Oli> Aha, this helps http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-S2_PCIe_Cards
<ali1234> PCTV nanostack 290e
<ali1234> oh wait, S2
<Oli> I'm open to Freeview if you think it's better. Been using Freesat out of habit because our last house had really awful reception
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy World Wildlife Conservation Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: there is this cheeky one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_JF8oSxXtM
<Laney> seriously
<Laney> this person reading the news on radio 4 atm has a terrible bunged nose
<Laney> get him off the air!
<zmoylan-pi> have a complimentary basket of vicks inhalers sent in...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan__> hmm, I'm cold :-(
<diddledan__> morning
<awilkins> Clearly you're not playing enough video games
<awilkins> More games == more heat from the back of your "dustbuster" GPU card
<awilkins> More heat == less cold
<Seeker`> I play games to warm my room
<Seeker`> inefficient but fun
<diddledan__> y'all are geeks :-p
<Myrtti> newsflash
<Seeker`> :O it's a Myrtti
<Myrtti> Always
<Seeker`> how's things?
<Myrtti> all in all fairly positive :-)
<davmor2> Myrtti: allow me to make things a little more meh for you, It's nearly Monday ;)
<Myrtti> you don't get me down that easily ð
<Seeker`> weekend first :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: the Moomins die in the end????
<diddledan__> :-o
<Seeker`> wut?
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're just nasty, I'll tell czajkowski on you!!
<davmor2> MooDoo, Myrtti: well that or someone turned off the tv :D
<diddledan__> TELLYBOX!
 * diddledan__ wonders if jeremy kyle is on
<diddledan__> :-p
<davmor2> diddledan__: jeremy is always on
<diddledan__> yeah, I figured that after I said it
<awilkins> Oldham by-election : Labour up, Tory down (by more than half of vote share), UKIP butthurt about it
<diddledan__> yey UKIP!
<Seeker`> "yey UKIP!
<Seeker`> ^ said noone sane ever
<awilkins> Hahaha, apparently they (UKIP) were playing "White Christmas" in Oldham. It's like something out of a biting political satire.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan__> haha
<Seeker`> awilkins: hardly surprising that Labour won a seat that they have held for, what, 45 years?
<bigcalm> What's the likelihood of letsencrypt making it into 16.04?
<diddledan__> need it to appear in debian usually IIRC
<diddledan__> first*
<awilkins> Seeker`, The pundits were all predicting doom and gloom
<Seeker`> When aren't they?
<awilkins> "Oh, Corbyn will put them all off and they'll lose the seat! Woe!"
<Seeker`> yeah, that sells more papers than "Labour will keep safe seat"
<awilkins> Now they've actually increased their vote share (in no small part due to the Corbynite "Momentum" group), everyone is going "Oh, it's NOTHING to do with Jeremy, NOTHING."
<bigcalm> diddledan__: ah, fair enough
<awilkins> It's the sort of thing that gets Debian contributors exited though, isn't it?
<Seeker`> awilkins: the turnout was massively lower than the previous election
<diddledan__> it would be a shame to miss the LTS though, so I hope it does get in
<awilkins> Seeker`, Yeah, I acknowledge that ; it could feasibly just be the product of all the Tories staying at home going "meh."
<Myrtti> right, need to go fill up my bottle
<Myrtti> ho hum
<diddledan__> haha: https://twitter.com/raspberry_pi/status/672749159166967809
<diddledan__> also, star wars raspberri pi: https://twitter.com/designedbybird/status/672748905747120129
<Laney> put a banging donk on it
<diplo> bigcalm: afaik it is already in debian experimental
<diddledan__> \o/
<bigcalm> diplo: yep, saw that earlier
<diplo> Sorry, just caught up with irc
<bigcalm> I don't know how quickly debian processes work though
<bigcalm> diplo: no worries, thanks for taking an interest :)
<diplo> Probably as quickly as people badger for it :D
<diplo> I was interested as I installed it myself earlier on my VPS looking for a package
<diddledan__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI
<diplo> looks like it's only apahe so far as well, not ngingx
<bigcalm> I manually ran the git repo version on one of my servers. Now have all 3 domains on that one ip address secured with SSL :)
<davmor2> diddledan__: not as good as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbby9coDRCk
<diplo> Ah I had some errors on mine, not had a chance to look at it yet
<diplo> I don't use it much so could be that the server isn't configured correctly :P
<diddledan__> ricky gervais has some interesting thoughts in this article: http://ideas.time.com/2011/11/09/the-difference-between-american-and-british-humour/
<davmor2> diddledan__: does say we have one they don't
<diddledan__> davmor2: it's actually a more nuanced article than that
<davmor2> diddledan__: I'd say that article is broad/sweeping but fair
<diddledan__> :-)
<davmor2> diddledan__: we hate everyone equally and the americans come in peace shot to kill, shot to kill.....wait no that's star trek.....meh same difference ;)
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> that obviously requires the gratuitous link to be supplied: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
 * davmor2 bounces head along to the music
<diddledan__> lol: https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/672821843816931329
<diddledan__> and also: https://twitter.com/iamdevloper/status/672821897743110145
<davmor2> developer wearing suits aren't they called project managers
<diddledan__> no, our PMs don't know how to code
<diddledan__> developers wearing suits is just plain wrong
<zmoylan-pi> suits last till the first time you have to find a cable fault under a desk that hasn't been moved in 10 years...
<zmoylan-pi> though my personal favourite was there were so many cables connected to back of a pc that when it's desk collapsed it merely sagged and pulled at the wall sockets...
<safiyyah> following my issues with the graphic card last week, I reinstalled and found my intel onboard graphics give a love resolution, I have now bought and Nvidia ASUS card, reinstalled and it still isn't good
<safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008A1C2AM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 - this is the new card
<safiyyah> is anyone around? I remember I spoke to SuperMatt M
<safiyyah> that's it SuperMatt and davmor2 if you guys are around?
<davmor2> humm
<davmor2> safiyyah: possibly an issue on your motherboard maybe
<davmor2> safiyyah: see if there is a bios update
<safiyyah> there isn't
<safiyyah> plu, now it can't complain, the board and grahics card are both asus
<safiyyah> how do I check if nouveau is actually running?
<safiyyah> I am not convinced it is
<daftykins> hi safiyyah - long time no see
<safiyyah> hi daftykins
<daftykins> is X working? "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
<daftykins> didn't you used to have to apply that custom modeline if it's that same TV you had?
<safiyyah> I did daftykins , very true, but that was when I used the nvidia drivers, nouveau has always worked out of the box
<safiyyah> I just finished a fresh install and bad graphics
<daftykins> 14.04.3?
<safiyyah> yes
<daftykins> i'd throw on the proprietary driver immediately then
<safiyyah> Xubuntu 14.04.3
<safiyyah> i am not going to be fidling with Nvidia anymore
<safiyyah> nouveau is fine,,,, fell out of love with compiz
<daftykins> it's more about decently accelerated video than any foolish desktop effects
<diddledan__> nouveau won't be fine for a new card on 14.04
<daftykins> anywho the above command is still relevant
<safiyyah> btw can nouveau handle two monitors? like two monitors, so I have two screens running with different windows?
<daftykins> heh a GT 610 new? :>
<daftykins> probably, but probably not easily
<daftykins> i'd just run nvidia then two would work immediately
<safiyyah> I put the link up for the card I bought on amazon,
<safiyyah> I didn't buy the latest, just a budget, quiet one
<safiyyah> hang on, do I install nvidia, OR update my motherboard drivers
<daftykins> "pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log"
<safiyyah> am hunting for the drivers as we speak
<daftykins> you don't have motherboard drivers on Linux
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13673181/
<safiyyah> also daftykins ,  with the new card there are new drivers listed, the old card used to only work properly with one of the options
<safiyyah> is it trial and error again? try one at a time until one works?
<daftykins> nouveau is in use assuming that file is current
<daftykins> nope i'd install nvidia-346
<safiyyah> okay and then we change Xorg with popey's file?
<daftykins> well i'd see how it is first of all, hopefully life is different with a new card
<safiyyah> I do not have 346 coming up on restricted drivers :( 352.63, 304.131, 340.96 - both legacy binary drivers and binary drivers on the exact same numbers
<safiyyah> about nouveau, I put the card in and did a fresh install, so that is the freshest it can get
<daftykins> ok, well 352 will do
<daftykins> !info nvidia-346 trusty
<lubotu3`> nvidia-346 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-352): Transitional package for nvidia-346. In component restricted, is optional. Version 352.63-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 (trusty), package size 4 kB, installed size 34 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; armhf)
<safiyyah> binary or legacy binary
<safiyyah> ?
<daftykins> roll a dice
<safiyyah> oooooohhhhh
<daftykins> er, di
<safiyyah> will go with binary
<safiyyah> fancy names are usually the start of probems
<safiyyah> I am on Andchat as well incase I need a reboot btw
<safiyyah> nvidia it is.... just when I was dreaming of those 4K huge monitors I saw at curry's. I figured a double monitor would be the way forward. Watch bbc iplayer and youtube videos on there. fantasies fantasies
<safiyyah> it's still working, just waiting
<daftykins> that museum piece of yours couldn't drive one of those with that card :>
<safiyyah> is it my board?
<safiyyah> or the new budget card?
<safiyyah> lol
<daftykins> all of it
<safiyyah> wow
<daftykins> anyway dreams aside, see how the nvidia driver fares after a reboot :>
<safiyyah> done, gone to reboot
<safiyyah> daftykins, no change to the graphics, it threw up some error messages when booting though
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13673569/
<daftykins> oh you're still using VGA :(
<daftykins> was that the only input type that monitor has?
<safiyyah> it has HDMI as well but HDMI is with me DVD player
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> what's this talk of two displays now though, you have a new one?
<safiyyah> i am going to be buying one in a few weeks
<safiyyah> I wanted a big flat screen telly
<daftykins> the more TV like a new thing the more likely it's going to be a hassle just like now :(
<safiyyah> plug it in via the HDMI port on the graphics card, and use it for my videos
<safiyyah> hmmm
<safiyyah> I cant stop dreaming of the big screen
<safiyyah> as long as it doesnt kill my
<safiyyah> PC
<safiyyah> my 'museum piece'
<daftykins> 4K would certainly be utterly pointless for TV service and computer use
<safiyyah> why? I can get BBC HD, etc?
<diddledan__> HD != 4K
<daftykins> ^
<diddledan__> HD < 4K
<safiyyah> well I thought the prestine images, would come off well with my blu ray DVDs
<safiyyah> maybe I misunderstood the technology
<daftykins> when the resolution of the display is greater than the input material, there are no gains to be made
<diddledan__> looney town central, everyone off!
<Seeker`> daftykins: depends on the upscaler you have :P
<daftykins> rubbish
<daftykins> you can't create what isn't there regardless
<Seeker`> on a single frame, sure
<diddledan__> bluray != DVD. nothing called a bluray DVD exists. bluray is usually HD, HD != 4K
<Seeker`> but you can infer things from temporal data
<safiyyah> okay so a HDMI cable is not going to do it? and also, the telly itself connects to the internet
<safiyyah> so it also won't get online TV streams like 4 OD?
<diddledan__> they're all either SD or HD
<safiyyah> okay
<Seeker`> daftykins: it's possible to increase framerates by generating frames between the existing ones too, for example
<diddledan__> the most likely place to get 4K content will be via subscription
<safiyyah> scrap the 4K plan, can save me money.... then a large HD screen lol
<daftykins> Seeker`: we're not talking about framerate and i don't need a lesson on video, thanks.
<diddledan__> 4K content is scarce right now. it will improve but it's not at critical mass where it makes sense to buy a 4K TV
<safiyyah> ah!!!!
<Seeker`> daftykins: it was an example of how you can get more detail in one frame when you have surrounding frames to look at too
<safiyyah> you guys are so useful!!!
<daftykins> Seeker`: drop it thanks, none of this is news to me
<safiyyah> okay so a normal HD telly at half the price will do me good
<diddledan__> although if your TV breaks and you NEED to buy one then I would suggest that it makes sense to go for a 4K capable one then
<Seeker`> daftykins: cheer up, it's almost the weekend
<diddledan__> but only if you can afford the premium
<daftykins> keep it to yourself
<Seeker`> O.o riiiiiiiiight
<safiyyah> no am buying  a big telly for the first time in me life
<safiyyah> i was thinking the 4k meant, when the stuff went mainstream I would already have it
<safiyyah> but according to you, even my blu ray player will be obsolete to the 4k tv
<daftykins> everything 4K is going to be redundant in the new year due to changing specs
<safiyyah> ah they decided on a new technology instead?
<diddledan__> yeah a current-generation bluray player won't be able to output the higher resolution
<safiyyah> ah okay
<diddledan__> also H.265 encoding is coming soon which none of the current stuff supports
<daftykins> and that card you got probably maxes out at 2560x1600 over HDMI
<safiyyah> well let me just get a HD screen and think about the higher resolutions in a few years time
<daftykins> diddledan__: been here ages ;D
<diddledan__> daftykins: not for actual content tho
<diddledan__> the tech has been available but noone has used it
<safiyyah> hmmm
<daftykins> the cheeky swines were trying to get royalties last i heard
<diddledan__> h.264 is very entrenched these days due to everything having hardware support for decoding
<diddledan__> yeah damned swines
<safiyyah> so can my museum system manage the HD flat screen?
<diddledan__> how dare they make me pay for something my arm cpu does anyway
<daftykins> like i said the card can drive 2560x1600 over HDMI, HD is 1920x1080
 * diddledan__ pets his 1920x1200 :-p
<safiyyah> oh that will work then!!!!
<diddledan__> it's an old monitor that tho
<diddledan__> before they unified to 16:9 aspect ratio
<Seeker`> diddledan__: GTX950 and GTX960 have H.265 apparently
<safiyyah> okay so will keep my extra Â£300 and just get a HD, am not going to be getting virgin TV
<diddledan__> ooh
<Seeker`> It's part of nVidia's "Feature set F"
<diddledan__> nice
<safiyyah> right back to the disaster or a reboot, what is the driver unhappy about?
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13673569/
<safiyyah> do I chuck it and try the legacy binary drivers?
<daftykins> no, use the usual xorg.conf mod
<daftykins> it's the same as it always was :>
<Seeker`> diddledan__: I think other cards can do it, but only via GPGPU, which is slower
<daftykins> i highly doubt you would get a renderer using GP offload, the intel chips of one or two generations do a hybrid decode, but not cards
<daftykins> most would have to fall back to software
<safiyyah> the tech talk is going over me head daftykins
<daftykins> conversations running in parallel, they're not all for you
<safiyyah> oh good
 * diddledan__ multitasks
<safiyyah> but you agreed with me about the regular HD monitor?
<diddledan__> humans need to learn to multiplex our communications methods of text and speach
<diddledan__> talk to three different people all simultaneously
<diddledan__> maybe we'll need a binary speach protocol
<diddledan__> we'll go around screeching instead of using words
<zmoylan-pi> booooooooo boooooop, booooooooooo, boooooooooop, boooble booble boooble..... /best spectrum game ever... :-D
<diddledan__> apparently you can tell the age of a person by what kind of modem they sound like when asked to recreate the noise
<diddledan__> although you might get the eejit who ruins the experiment by going "bee boo boop beep eeeeeeeee eeeee eeeeee <click>.. MOM HANG UP THE PHONE!!!"
<zmoylan-pi> and those weirdos who pretend to be a fax machine...
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> I'm a V.92 or a K-56Flex generation
<zmoylan-pi> a 300 baud bell modem as i like to be more casual... :-)
<diddledan__> 48kpbs was a dream
<diddledan__> you always did like the old stuff :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and all the pager services used 300 baud as it meant they could charge more for the calls...
<diddledan__> lol
<diddledan__> that's a bit crazy
<diddledan__> do people still use pagers?
<zmoylan-pi> plus our alarm company /allies/ preferred 300 baud to talk to their alarm boxes so every modem we sold had to support it...
<zmoylan-pi> they shut down the main pager services around 2000 in ireland.  but i did see one clipped to a guys belt a few months back.  seems a lot of places have their own private transmitters.
<zmoylan-pi> as they are more dependable than sms
<zmoylan-pi> and having written an sms server AND a pager server for alarm companies i preferred pagers...
<diddledan__> back around 2003/4 a new ASDA store opened with the checkout supers using pagers to get notified when a cashier needed assistance
<zmoylan-pi> a sms can be delayed days or weeks in certain conditions whereas a pager goes off the moment it's notified (as long as the coverage is good)
<diddledan__> was nuts because the pagers had a limited memory of number of messages and each cashier request was a single message
<diddledan__> so the pagers got full and then refused to receive new messages
<zmoylan-pi> i wrote one server in pcanywhere's scripting language and wrote all the messages to a log file.  it was supposed to last 6 months till a proper server was bought and installed.  about 5 years later the pc was brought in as no more messages were going out.
<zmoylan-pi> the log file had filled the 4gb hard disk :-)
<diddledan__> lol
<zmoylan-pi> oops :-)
<safiyyah> changed xorg.0.log, rebooted and no joy
<diddledan__> err
<daftykins> *xorg.conf
<diddledan__> ^ that
<safiyyah> damn!!!
<safiyyah> anyway I backed it up
<safiyyah> will correct that
<daftykins> /etc/X11/xorg.conf is what you're creating
<diddledan__> a file ending in .log usually denotes that it's a log file. hence the .log. it contains logs. not configuration
<safiyyah> okay so changing it won't help
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> it will make a new log at the next boot
<diddledan__> indeed it will
<safiyyah> yeiiii, it is working?
<safiyyah> can i just ask if i am running nouveau or nvdia please?
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13674583/
<daftykins> you installed nvidia and i said last time that it's nvidia in use now...
<safiyyah> okay, where did you get the specifications for the recommended nvidia drivers?
<daftykins> my brain, you don't have to pick specific versions for specific cards, they all work with them all
<safiyyah> good brain you have there, wow!
<safiyyah> am sorted! thank you so much.
<safiyyah> and am I good to go with the extra monitor/tv screen now?
<daftykins> as in, will a second display using HDMI work perfectly when plugged in? maybe
<safiyyah> lol
<safiyyah> well I may be back then
<safiyyah> thanks a tonne again
<diddledan__> jeri ryan's new tee-shirt: https://represent.com/jeri
<zmoylan-pi> i'll just have to hope santa is still alive so... :-P http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/dec/04/father-christmas-death-notice-norwegian-newspaper
<diddledan__> they're blaming procedural problems rather than an idiot?
<davmor2> diddledan__: what were you doing there ;)
<diddledan__> I was hiding, but Santa found me so I had to kill him...
<diddledan__> which movie tonight: ant-man or tomorrowland?
<diddledan__> got an episode of agents of s.h.i.e.l.d. to watch, too
 * zmoylan-pi has a 2-3 more episodes of firefly ahead, and drop the dead donkey...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: don't forget serenity too
<zmoylan-pi> i will copy the movie and a few others to viewing device as i get to last tv episode...
<zmoylan-pi> probably fifth element as well, maybe 2010...
<diddledan__> the fifth elephant is awesome
<zmoylan-pi> it is one of the most beautiful sci fi movies ever made...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, diddledan__: you both need to see "now you see me" again if you haven't already :)
<diddledan__> davmor2: I've watched that many times already - I will watch it again soon, you're right - amazing film
<davmor2> diddledan__: number 2 next year
<diddledan__> yup, excited for it
<zmoylan-pi> i'll keep an eye out for it in dvd shop next time i'm there
<davmor2> diddledan__, zmoylan-pi: you both need to see ex mechina too if you haven't
<diddledan__> again, awesome choice!
<diddledan__> the machine is fun too
<davmor2> salt 2 is meant to be out soon too iirc
<zmoylan-pi> then all i can do is recommend 2 movies you won't have seen and will make you laugh... 'the gods must be crazy' plus it's sequel
<davmor2> and then there is alice through the looking glass
<zmoylan-pi> and if you like crime movies the irish comedy/crime movie 'i went down' is brilliant
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi, diddledan__: if you like something along the line of the pink panther comedy wise I recommend Mortdecai
<diddledan__> oh yes, I've seen the trailer, I meant to get a copy but forgot all about it - thanks for the reminder :-)
<diddledan__> kingsman is hilarious!
<popey> yeah, i liked that film
<popey> watched it a couple of times now
<davmor2> yeah it got sucky reviews but I think that is because everyone was expecting it to be bond with Colin Firth in and then they killed him
<davmor2> I loved it though
<diddledan__> I loved it too
<davmor2> if anyone invites you to see Lone ranger gauge your eyes out
<davmor2> gouge even
<popey> Watched Tomorrowland with Clooney
<popey> bit of an odd one
<davmor2> popey: cloud atlas weird or vanilla skies weird
<bigcalm> popey: are you on 150mb yet?
<popey> bigcalm, didnt know it was an option
<popey> bigcalm, do i need a cable modem upgrade?
<bigcalm> popey: I logged into my account and there was a message telling me that before the end of December my connection would be upgraded to 150mb
<popey> you still on mates rates?
<bigcalm> Na, I had to ditch it
<popey> i never login to mine
<bigcalm> We've dropped TV because we don't use it. Now just have 'net and phone (phone is hardly used either)
<bigcalm> I only login to my vm account when they dick around with our bill
<bigcalm> The Â£20pcm loyalty credit turned out to only last 1 year. Our bill went back up to Â£63pcm.
<bigcalm> Hayley and I decided that it was too much for 3 services where we only really use one of them
<popey> mine is currently 64.49
<bigcalm> That's the number
<bigcalm> There's a sky dish on the house, left over from the previous owners. So I bought a freesat box
<bigcalm> Working well so far
<popey> yeah, i used to have sky, so plugged the cable into the telly
<popey> telly does freesat hd and if I plug a USB disk in it turns the telly into a PVR
<bigcalm> Funky
<popey> not that I ever watch freesat :)
<bigcalm> http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=51538&CURRENT_CMD=SEARCH&CONFIGURATION=1001&PARTITION_ID=1&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTY=us&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable
<bigcalm> We're on VIVID100, and I expect that you are as well
<popey> i am
<popey> "Your speed boost is almost ready!"
<diddledan__> mine's not until april at the earliest :-(
<popey> end of december
<bigcalm> I recently got a letter from VM saying that they would be doing maintenance on the 15th December and my 'net connection would be up and down. I guess that's when the update will happen for me
<diddledan__> they claimed the network would be ready back in september but neglected to mention that "september" really meant "when we feel like it"
<bigcalm> It's always been a finger in the air date
<bigcalm> Quite happy with my 12.7MB/s
<bigcalm> Wonder what I'll get with 150mb
<diddledan__> bigcalm: I think you'll get cooties
<diddledan__> bigcalm: all that unfettered internet is bad for you
<diddledan__> http://www.ustream.tv/NASAHDTV/theater
<diddledan__> flaming ballocket again
<diddledan__> weather is green right now so we might actually get a launch today
<diddledan__> entering terminal count
<diddledan__> T0 at 22:48:12
<diddledan__> clock resumed at 4:00
<diddledan__> we're in terminal count
<diddledan__> flight control nogo
<diddledan__> holding at 3:42
<diddledan__> clock reset to 4minutes
<diddledan__> T0 now set at 23:03:12
<diddledan__> that reset was due to being too windy
<diddledan__> count resumed
<diddledan__> that's it. nogo
<diddledan__> scrubbing for today
<diddledan__> https://twitter.com/themagp1/status/672915699233398785
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-05
<zmoylan-pi> we're in there somewhere... http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-14.05,52.12,3000
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> how are you
<brobostigon> hi knightwise, not bad and you?
<knightwise> doing ok
<knightwise> about to go for some Xmass shopping with the misses
<knightwise> so I packed somme light reading material on my phone :p
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon has a misses now as well, he is engaged.
<knightwise> Congratzzzz ! since when ?
<brobostigon> last weekend.
<brobostigon> thank you, :)
<knightwise> wicked ! set a date yet ?
<brobostigon> no, not yet, :)
<knightwise> i'm off :) downloaded some books on the tablet so i have something to read in the meantime :)
<brobostigon> :)
<diddleda_> ms edge javascript engine (chakra) is going to be opensourced: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/12/05/open-source-chakra-core/
<bittin> iktf: https://twitter.com/stephaniehobson/status/672299045155504128
<DJones> Hmmh, something wrong here, under an hour to upgrade a Win 8.1 machine to Win 10 including downloading 2.6Gb of upgrade, without any issues, completely working system and without making a mess of dual boot.  I guess uEFI does have some benefits
<foobarry> views on chromebooks in schools anyone?
<foobarry> i.e. schools buying them instead of other things like macs
<penguin42> I guess it depends what the schools are doing; I guess the macs probably give more flexibility, as would a PC laptop; but there again the chromebooks will be cheap and probably easier to admin
<foobarry> apparently the macs aren't being used much
<foobarry> need to find out more
<penguin42> what age range?
<foobarry> primary/infant
<foobarry> junior school
<penguin42> I think at that age a chromebook should be fine, and you want something cheap and destructible so when they puke on it, it's not a big issue
<penguin42> heck, elastic-trickery prices seem to have dropped like a stone in the last year
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland wind power seems to be reaching new heights every few months
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: UK we've got about 8.5GW peak, but that is peak; we do have the occasional week when it produces ~.1GW
<penguin42> http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/  is the current UK grid status
<directhex> fortunately, wind power is highly predictable, and some types of fossil fuel generators can go from idle to full production in about 30 minutes
<directhex> so renewable as a baseline is actually feasible - but no renewable is suitable for making up shortfall
<directhex> nuclear is a better baseline, since it's got a constant output rate all the time
<directhex> and pumped storage hydroelectric as a way to store excess power produced during the day for use at night *could* do instead of fossil fuiels... if it weren't comedy expensive
<penguin42> directhex: I'm not convinced pumped is enough; the problem with wind/solar isn't overnight - it's a week of low wind
<directhex> also that
<directhex> but using gas as a baseline is dumb
<directhex> gas is a fabulous compensator, but using it as a baseline is a massive waste
<penguin42> yep
<penguin42> directhex: If you can persuade people to build nukes then you're right
<directhex> yeah, not happening
<directhex> nobody wants to build modern safe reactors, because 1960s reactors aren't up to 2010's standards. so we... keep running old 1960s reactors into the ground. good job everyone
<directhex> the pricing issue with nukes isn't even construction or maintenance, it's insurance. which costs basically Â£infinity
<penguin42> you can kind of see why
<directhex> we could build safe reactors tomorrow, but fear of free love era relics means it won't happen
<penguin42> define 'safe'?  Has anyone actually built a large scale inherently safe one yet?
<directhex> plenty of modern designs are modular parallel small-scale ones
<penguin42> oh, hadn't realised those existed
<directhex> i thiknk toshiba had a 100% sealed design one
<directhex> just drop it in the ground & connect a (big) cable to the top
<penguin42> hmm, why aren't tehy getting in on the UK competition?
<penguin42> that seems to be mostly French/Chinese?
<directhex> france is one of the most nuclear nations on earh, if anyone has the experience needed to actually deploy things successfully, it's them
<penguin42> yeh, that's true, and I think we are due to get one they're probably debugging on their own soil
<directhex> like... 90% of their national demand is nuclear, 10% is hydro? something like that
<penguin42> ah well there's a link at the top of that page for the french grid
<penguin42> http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/
<bashrc> I don't think nuclear has much of a future. Electricity from renewables overtook nuclear and coal within the last few years. Nuclear is expensive, particularly when you include the externalities
<penguin42> currently cooking at 92.36% nuke
<directhex> nobody's had to deal with a catastrophic wind spillage yet :o
<penguin42> although lots of people have been killed by catastrophic hydro power failures
<directhex> nuclear is *way* more dependable than renewable. no "is it sunny? is it windy?" issues, so less need to top up with fossil fuels than with a heavy renewable base
<directhex> nuclear probably has no future, but not because it isn't good
<directhex> it's political
<penguin42> directhex: Given the design life of nukes I do wonder when they start having financial difficulties due to the expected arrival of fusion
<penguin42> directhex: I mean if you design for a 50 year life, we *should* have working fusion by then
<bashrc> that's what they said 50 years ago
<directhex> ever gone swimming in nuclear runoff? nice & warm! manatees love it!
<penguin42> bashrc: Yeh, although ITER is actually getting somewhere
<ali1234> if you mined all the lithium in Earth, how many amp-hours of batteries could you make?
<penguin42> bashrc: They've actually got buildings going up and the superconducting cables made
<directhex> "As of January 2010, the USGS estimated world total lithium reserves at 9.9Ã109 kg (economically extractable now) and identified lithium resources at 2.55 Ã 1010 kg (potentially economic). Most of the identified resources are in Bolivia and Chile (9 Ã 109 kg and 7.5 Ã 109 kg, respectively). World lithium production is currently on the order of 2 Ã 107 kg per year."
<ali1234> yes i am also reading that page
<directhex> so it's 100g per kWh
<ali1234> yeah. so about 1*10^11 kWhs
<ali1234> enough to run the whole planet for five hours
<ali1234> that's kind of scary
 * penguin42 hates to think of the connector you'd use for that
<directhex> CCS.
<zmoylan-pi> the apple variant would of course cost double :-)
<moreati> A sanity check: can anyone get this page to show a comparison? Is there a button I'm not seeing? http://www.asus.com/uk/Notebooks/Zenbook-Series-Products/
<moreati> nm, I've found alternate means. Still puzzle though
<Azelphur> Hi folks, I'm trying to figure out how to make my PC pretend to be a bluetooth headset, such that I could make phone calls via my phone, utilising my PCs mic and speakers. Does anyone know how to do this?
<penguin42> hmm sounds like it should be possible, I think, never done it
#ubuntu-uk 2015-12-06
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> mornin' o/
<mapps> sup!
<daftykins> mmm not much just gaming
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> g'day o/
<brobostigon> morning daftykins
<diddledan_> morning
<penguin42> hey
<daftykins> one o' those quiet sundays
<daftykins> shame about the entitled *ahem* in #ubuntu
<directhex> daftykins: i can't do it any more. tech support is rotten, even if you're getting paid thousands a year to do it
<directhex> let alone for free
<daftykins> i thought you'd escaped it long ago?
<diddledan_> I'm entitled.
<Myrtti> we went to Lincoln Christmas market
<Myrtti> nice pork pies, cheese, sausages and drinks
<Myrtti> nice city, too
<directhex> daftykins: yeah, but people still expect help online :p
<foobarry> programme about the vulcan. great. presented by guy martin mehhhhhhhhh
<foobarry> miht watch it on mute
<zmoylan-pi> we need a jeremy clarksoniser, some voice filter to make all announcers sound like clarkson... :-P
<penguin42> an American I know complained he couldn't understand the Amazon thing on drone delivery
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not seeing a problem with that.... :-D
<diddledan_> 70% chance of flaming ballocket actually leaving the ground today: http://www.ustream.tv/NASAHDTV/theater
<MartijnVdS> Which one today?
<diddledan_> cygnus
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: https://twitter.com/nextlaunch -- you might like that
<diddledan_> ooh
<MartijnVdS> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDh4uK9PvJU for people who dislike ustream)
 * diddledan_ follows
<diddledan_> aah that's better - can watch youtube without flash
<MartijnVdS> it's a good week for space people
<MartijnVdS> diddledan_: you can also Chromecast it to a proper TV ;)
<MartijnVdS> LISA Pathfinder earlier
<MartijnVdS> ooh nice: https://certificatemonitor.org/
<popey> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
<popey> 33 mins to launch
<zmoylan-pi> light blue touch paper and retire...
<diddledan_> zmoylan-pi: I can't afford to retire yet
<diddledan_> is a shame the nasa stream isn't using 4k yet
<diddledan_> they're still on 720
<diddledan_> :-(
 * zmoylan-pi duct tapes diddledan_ to the primary stage to get best view possible... :-)
<diddledan_> eep
 * zmoylan-pi also hands diddledan_ bag of sausages...
<diddledan_> yummy
<diddledan_> BBQ Sausages ftw
<diddledan_> "375 to 1 and falling"
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-05
<Azelphur> !ops
<lubotu3`> Help!  DJones, Myrtti, Mez, AlanBell, popey, Gary, Seeker`, Daviey, PriceChild or X3N
<Azelphur> they are pm spamming too, fun times
<popey> wat?
<popey> "they"?
<Azelphur> popey, do you not see the above messages?
<popey> what messages?
<Azelphur> popey, http://imgur.com/a/C6gEq ?
<popey> i do not see that
<Azelphur> that...is odd
<Azelphur> maybe they are notices and hexchat chose to show them here as this was the last tab on freenode I had open...don't use hexchat that often
<Azelphur> false alarm I guess then, apologies :)
<popey> np
<popey> :)
 * popey goes back to bed :)
<mapps> yo
<mapps> berlin station ep out yay
<mapps> show is ace
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy World Soil Day! ð â ð³
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CKFFdZr4nI
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38183819
<diddledan> so quiet
<daftykins> i'll ring Bjork
<diddledan> good plan
<daftykins> crikey, just copied 500GB of video which took forever
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> still gotta throw that on an external and sneakernet it somewhere
<davmor2> it's oh so still
<daftykins> shh! shh!
<diddledan> ssh, ssh
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> now i want to play it
<daftykins> wow it's not on the greatest hits album i have
<diddledan> hmm. logstash has stopped sending stuff to my elasticsearch :-/
 * diddledan scratchy noodle
<daftykins> your rubber band's broken!
<diddledan> aye
 * diddledan winds it up
<davmor2> daftykins: wow you have an album
<daftykins> hells yeah!
<daftykins> "Play Dead" was a classic
<davmor2> daftykins: that's an album of photos isn't it, your parents used to sit you in the corner of the room and tell you they were playing dead and to shout them when they moved.....they did didn't they ;)
<daftykins> i knew i had an uncle davmor! you were there too!
<diddledan> watch the stats fill-up my elasticsearch: ubulog.com/goto/3647fea01bcab37876c5977c86ca06bc
<daftykins> Captain's ubulog
<diddledan> captain's log. in the loo.
<daftykins> mmm christmas log
<diddledan> oh yes!
<diddledan> love those things!
<daftykins> sigh, heard some lads walk past and one was about to relieve himself outside, so i open the door and they promptly move on - but start giving ME attitude?
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> how dare you interrupt them?
<daftykins> indeedy
<diddledan> bye dafty :-(
<diddledan> wb daftykins
<daftykins> thank ye
<daftykins> same file copy from earlier is still going XD
<diddledan> yikes
<daftykins> 56GB left
<daftykins> john lewis aren't sure, but they think the big TV is showing up at my clients place on Wednesday \o/
<diddledan> yey
<daftykins> never heard of the courier 'DX' before
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> hopefully that's not the face you make when they come by
<diddledan> wonder how long this data will take to ingest into my elasticsearch...
<diddledan> it's 7GB of text
<diddledan> 'course the index will be much bigger than that
<daftykins> that's a big rubber band
<diddledan> well it's nearly 13 years of logs
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> doesn't it compress nicely?
<diddledan> probably
<diddledan> there's 420117 daily logs (separated into one-per-day-per-channel)
<daftykins> diddledan: now this is a lot o' log - http://gizmodo.com/what-scientists-found-inside-this-burmese-pythons-stoma-1789682374
<BouffantJoe> Hi I'm having trouble with apt-get
<BouffantJoe> hello
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-06
<diddledan> right, I've locked-down kibana now so you can't see the url I showed earlier. instead I've got a preliminary graph at https://ubulog.com/
<zmoylan-pi> so a drop in irc or ubuntu or both...
<diddledan> the data is still incomplete
<diddledan> so that may change, but it's an interesting trend that has emerged thus far
<zmoylan-pi> doubt it will change the overall results much
<diddledan> so far I've indexed about 67million lines of log. just running a check to see how many there are total
<diddledan> 87,673,240
<diddledan> so mostly there
<diddledan> two-thirds of the way
<diddledan> that 87million is the total number of lines
<diddledan> currently I've indexed 67,271,021 of those
<diddledan> the big tall line above everything else is obviously #ubuntu
<diddledan> looks like we peaked message-count in april 07
<zmoylan-pi> the spawning of all the extra channels in 2010 would split the community and lower the overall totals
<zmoylan-pi> comments on ms's new home automation dealy... 'Microsoft's smart digital assistant Cortana can already answer your queries, even if the PC's screen is locked.' -- 'Cortana. How do I break into this locked PC?'
<Gargoyle> Mornin' all
<knightwi1e> hey everyone
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> why do people use speaker phone when walking around in public?
<Laney> you can't hear it properly and they can't hear you, especially when you shout directly into the microphone
<Laney> but there must be a reason
<Laney> what is it?
<davmor2> Laney: so you can tell how important they are cause they got calls and you didn't
<Laney> I can see someone doing it out of my window atm
<Laney> don't /think/ it is posing
<Laney> she looks like she's having an argument
<Laney> also standing next to a mediumly busy road so it's even harder to hear on speaker
<Laney> ME NO UNDERSTAND
<davmor2> Laney: I can't put the real reason on this channel because it contains too many expletives ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Minersâ Day! ð
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> Laney: I know people who won't use the phone against their ear because of cancer scares etc, either use headphones with mic or user speakphone, I see it all the time down this way, think they look and sound ridiculous :)
<Laney> diplo: oh GOD that too
<Laney> using those headphones with a microphone and then putting the microphone basically inside your mouth
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Yes, all very frustrating
<davmor2> JamesTait: I think this is apt for miners https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A-IoOEPbUs
<JamesTait> davmor2, https://youtu.be/H_AjiDmr_2U would have been fine. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfR9iY5y94s let me throw this one at you too :)
<daftykins> woo i got a cracker in-app for using android pay! lots of prizes on offer this month
<TwistedLucidity> Never used Android pay, the very idea gives me the heebies
<daftykins> well, it's safer than a contactless card in your wallet.
<TwistedLucidity> What security surrounds it? Are they liable in the same way as credit cards for fraud?
<TwistedLucidity> daftykins: Get non-contactless cards; simple
<daftykins> it creates a virtual card so the details shared with pay points aren't that of your real card, for one
<daftykins> yeah but you can't, my bank for one has told me you won't be able to request non-contactless ones once they start making them
<TwistedLucidity> Time to get a new bank
<daftykins> i'm sure it's how it'll go everywhere in time
<daftykins> best part though, you can just turn NFC off on the phone!
<knightwise> hmm
<knightwise> there seems to be a Raspberry pi version of Teamviewer :)
<knightwise> This opens up a great amount of possibilities
<daftykins> it does?
<knightwise> I need to set one up as a headless icecast player
<davmor2> knightwise: you're not after the spammer again are you ;)
<knightwise> it needs to bootup and start playing an icecast stream when you plug it in
<knightwise> davmor2: the spammer ?
<daftykins> but there are so many more appropriate protocols than a proprietary one like teamviewer for that purpose?
<davmor2> knightwise: Microsoft is reporting to us that you have very many viruses spammer drop them into a team viewer on the pi
<knightwise> daftykins: not if you have to drop the machine behind a router and have no open ports.
<daftykins> but why would you ever knowingly do that?
<knightwise> I have to drop off my raspberry pi at a shop in the highstreet where it will be plugged into the pa system
<knightwise> Then i will need to go to an icecast stream and stream that from the pi
<knightwise> So i need a way to controll the headless box.
<daftykins> oh well nevermind, this scenario skips a lot of the start
<ali1234> but icecast is just http
<Azelphur> wow, whatever is spamming freenode is annoying, I literally have 70+ queries open, all spam.
<zmoylan-pi> i stopped having that problem when i changed my nick to one that starts with z... puts me down at bottom of any list...
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> So basically I should /nick Zelphur
<diplo> I don't get any either and I'm only at d
<zmoylan-pi> when i display nicks diplo is at bottom of 2nd column of 6 containing 90+ nicks so a 1/3 of the way in
<daftykins> Azelphur: zAzelphur! :D
<daftykins> can't have too many though or they'll think you're asleep
 * zmoylan-pi ponders SuperEngineer's technical skills with all the bouncing... :-P
<daftykins> :>
<SuperEngineer> hey, stop the mocking!  I'm off worh ill and playing with the setup one my 1+1
<daftykins> poor fella, lost to use of his fingers :>
<SuperEngineer> wrong.... having difficulty breathing actually.... any other insults you care to aim this way and look even more foolish?
<zmoylan-pi> then bounce away and may all your dvd boxsets keep you amused... :-)
<SuperEngineer> :D
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i hope you're not serious
<zmoylan-pi> name isn't surely...
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: it's not serious ifbreathing is not as required as we all thought it was
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: well i'd like to point out that i say one thing and you get your underwear in a twist about it, so calm down
<SuperEngineer> wrong daftykins ... I'm using my super powers to annoy you in fun... nothing nasty meant
<diddledan> yey for text comms obscuring the tonge-in-cheak
<daftykins> well you sound like a right nob now
<diddledan> +u
<diddledan> of course whenever people talk to me, they need to realise my tongue never leaves my cheak
<diddledan> cheek
 * zmoylan-pi starts the peace talks by breaking open the milk chocolate hobnobs
<diddledan> how is that spelt?
<daftykins> cheek, yeah
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: nobnobs!
 * diddledan sidles-up to zmoylan-pi
 * SuperEngineer blows virtual raspberry
<diddledan> pi
<SuperEngineer> lol
 * zmoylan-pi prepares the special hobnob with the radio tracker for diddledan 
<diddledan> mmm, crunchy
<diddledan> I'm sure there is an allo-allo image we could find that depicts that
<zmoylan-pi> and not the jug with the drug? but the candle with the handle?
<SuperEngineer> don't forget: The Gestapo is only insured for third party!
<diddledan> gespacho?
<SuperEngineer> so no handles - they break to easily
<daftykins> Rimmer D:
<zmoylan-pi> souper!
<SuperEngineer> So if I fire up Andchat again can you tell me what you see as username please?  I set is as SuprEngr1+1 but I'm sure it's not appearing as that.
<zmoylan-pi> fireup away
<diddledan> you're fired!
<SuperEngineer> loading...
<diddledan> SuperEngineer_:
<SuperEngineer> +1... damn you Andchat!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsbYx6hevoQ
<SuperEngineer> oh well, I suppose it's not actually that important.
<diddledan> at least GCHQ knows who you are...
<SuperEngineer> If I'm usung Andchat I won't normally be a desktop at the same time
<diddledan> do you often feel like you are furniture?
<daftykins> you shouldn't use andchat anymore, hasn't been updated in forever - abandoned project
<SuperEngineer> GCHQ stole the GCHQ banksey of GCHQ depicting GCHQ behaviour
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> boooo
<SuperEngineer> [that should arouse attention at their end[]
<diddledan> SuperEngineer: don't poke the bear!
<SuperEngineer> woopsey!  :-D
<SuperEngineer> If they come to get me or my pooter I'll fight vigoursly against it... assuming no breathing is required in doing so ;-)
<zmoylan-pi> a rasp pi zero hidden in cigar tube were sun doesn't shine... :-P
<SuperEngineer> OUCH!
<zmoylan-pi> bonus points if you use a cigar tube the british government sent pows in wwii to hide gear...
<zmoylan-pi> it's gone very pulp fictiony here for some reason... :-P
<diddledan> sorry, should I leave?
<daftykins> lets all go for a meal in a vintage car
<diddledan> is that a song?
<diddledan> second verse about a yellow submarine?
<daftykins> nah it's in Pulp Fiction, the restaurant
<diddledan> ah gotcha
<zmoylan-pi> i've always wanted to try a $5 milkshake
<diddledan> mm, this is a tasty burger
<diddledan> Tarantino FTW
<daftykins> big tasty Tarantino burger
<zmoylan-pi> watched watchmen last night.  should watch kill bill 1+2 to help ease me into christmas shopping... :-P
<daftykins> next up, zmoylan-pi in a yellow jump suit
 * zmoylan-pi fetches my +3 katana
<zmoylan-pi> i lie... it's just an ex irish army machete/bayonet from irelands un adventures...
 * SuperEngineer prefers the giggles of imagining zmoylan-pi in yellow cat suit
<daftykins> XD
<SuperEngineer> Whew! Just beat smoke from the burning toast out of window before it got to smoke detector
<SuperEngineer> [really must adjust the setting on that thing}
<daftykins> mmm now i want pop tarts :D
<SuperEngineer> pop tearts + toaster = burnt mouth [pop tart + microwave = burnt home]
<zmoylan-pi> no... beans. on. toast... #foodofthegods
<SuperEngineer> +1 [with a bit of black pepper in the beans, of course]
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> hmm maybe that's why the cafe chef asked if i wanted black pepper for my fry up Monday
<SuperEngineer> [or if adventurous - beans from a chilled can, small amount of garlic, on warmed olive bread
 * SuperEngineer drifts way to food heaven
<zmoylan-pi> no... now you're hipstering beans on toast... :-)
<daftykins> XD
<SuperEngineer> Whoops - they've guseed I'm actually Elon Musk
<SuperEngineer> O-O
<zmoylan-pi> the next tesla will have a microwave preinstalled and a chill cabinet for food and tinned goods
<daftykins> beats the elephant e-long Tusk
<SuperEngineer> daftykins:  re: "you shouldn't use andchat anymore"... suggestions?  AndroIRC perhaps?
<daftykins> i've not tried in a long time
<daftykins> YaaIC i had a go with last
<SuperEngineer> hmmm
<brobostigon> simplest, get a ssh client, :)
<daftykins> not very user friendly if you want to IRC from a phone
<brobostigon> it works though.
<brobostigon> especially with mosh, to compensate for a bad network connection.
<davmor2> daftykins: do you use irssi?
<daftykins> yes, it's not very well matched to SSH clients on android imo
<daftykins> since you've got no features for quick nick highlighting and so on, much saner from a native client
<davmor2> daftykins: have a look I think it is call irssi connect
<daftykins> i'm not the one asking so i have no need for this
<davmor2> SuperEngineer: ^
<davmor2> daftykins: sorry dude :)
<SuperEngineer> mm - not impressed with YaaIRC...
<daftykins> that's not the name i recall
<SuperEngineer> [or my connection settup, perhaps
<SuperEngineer> ..& AndroIRC wants too many permissions, so no.  Staying with AndChat for now.
<diddledan> wat: https://twitter.com/Sean__Clare/status/806132017242972161/video/1
<diddledan> dogs scare off inanimate flying machines
<daftykins> why is her pic of herself yawning? :P
<daftykins> XD
<SuperEngineer> warning: firing up andchat to check all ok...
<diddledan> brace for impact my friend
<SuperEngineer> damn!  "SuprEngr1+1 Erroeous Nickname"
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-L4tVksGYc
<daftykins> nobody cares what device you're on :P
<diddledan> daftykins: one word: zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> ;)
<SuperEngineer> weee!  old settings restored - mobile ready
<SuperEngineer_> Ghost now signing out
<diddledan> I wanna watch BSG end-to-end now
<diddledan> (again)
<SuperEngineer> BSG... it's BFG for the advanced user
<SuperEngineer> & zmoylan-pi actually uses a BBC micro - it must be true, I read it it the Daily Mail
<SuperEngineer> *in
<diddledan> MS+LinkedIn has been approved: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/12/06/microsoft-linkedin-deal-cleared-regulators-opening-doors-people-around-world/
<SuperEngineer> Are you allowed to use such nasty language as the Lin*** word in this channel?
<SuperEngineer> "an annoymous spammer you've never heard of but wants to damage your computer has invited you to join l****d"
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> hello
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, hi
<SuperEngineer> o/
<ball> What's a good channel for someone just starting out in Linux who might have some questions?
<daftykins> #linux ?
<ball> Thanks daftykins
<daftykins> #ubuntu might be a bit more friendly, but noted distro bias
<ball> Hmm... ok.
<ball> You know, I might fetch Xubuntu.
<ball> I remember liking that one when I tried it.
<daftykins> mmm nice DE, nice and light spin
 * ball kicks off the download
<ball> hello pavlushka
<daftykins> might not be here, just connection bouncing all day ;)
 * ball bounces
<daftykins> :D
 * ball checks on his Xubuntu download
<ball> woohoo!  It's done.
<daftykins> \o/ now to the flash drive
 * zmoylan-pi inserts spinning ubuntu symbol....
<ball> I have to wait for my Raspberry Pi to finish doing Raspberry Pi things so that I can power it down and free up enough desk space to set up a Xubuntu test rig.
<ball> ...or I suppose I could just pull the plug on it.
 * ball cackles, evilly.
<ali1234> just buy another one
<ball> ali1234: Another what?
<ali1234> raspberry pi
<ali1234> i've got like 15 of them
<ball> ali1234: I have two: a 1B and 2B
<ball> ali1234: Don't think Xubuntu's an option on those though.
<ball> ...and I'd need a much faster microSDHC card, anyway.
<daftykins> and a different ISO >:)
<ball> daftykins: Aye, that too.
<ali1234> ubuntu works on the 2B
<ali1234> not unity though
<ali1234> mate and xfce should work
<diddledan> just finished watching westworld. wow.
<daftykins> ah i snagged that earlier
<daftykins> doesn't end on a cliff hanger does it? i heard season 2 will only come in 2018
<diddledan> really epic finale
<diddledan> and yes cliff hanger
<daftykins> woot! ok now i won't watch ;D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> it kinda finishes the series off ok but leaves you anticipating the next one rather than leaving you with a guy about to fall but not showing whether he did or not
<diddledan> it would work as a standalone series where you wish they'd make another if they weren't going to
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> linked from another channel - https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
<diddledan> wow that's bad
<zmoylan-pi> i've answered the phone to these people, it shouldn't be a shock...
<zmoylan-pi> q. what browser are you using? a. excel.
<diddledan> at least they knew the answer
<diddledan> s/the/an/
<diddledan> at least they knew an answer
<diddledan> it may not be correct but at least they had one
<zmoylan-pi> true... if you can get them to read text of the screen with 2-3 prompts you can usually get there in the end... but that's not always a given
<diddledan> it's the folk that complain that the website is down when they're at home and their power is off
<diddledan> company website*
<daftykins> but i can't get to it!
<zmoylan-pi> or those that have forgotten the alphabet and don't know what a letter c is...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it's salty and wet
<zmoylan-pi> i think i've told you of the mate who after finishing a major reconfig over the phone of a dos based pos system needed the customer to type 2 lines 'cd \video' and 'video' and after 30 minutes effort found it was easier to drive there and type it in himself...
<daftykins> a truly POS system
<diddledan> point of sale?
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> yeah a dos based video point of sale system... the spec given to the programer fit on a post-it 'videos in/videos out' worst spec ever as that morphed into a 5 year coding marathon that cost the developer his sanity
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much everything he was told would never be required was added at a later stage making all previous code broken
<zmoylan-pi> and adding on tiny features like running sunbed systesm/sales of food and dvds/internet cafe made it a slight challenge...
<daftykins> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> he writes android apps now... it's a pleasent relief...
<zmoylan-pi> it's only java...
<zmoylan-pi> how hard could that be on multiple random cheap nasty chinese devices?
<m0nkey_> People. I need a phone. Given the choice between a LG G5 or iPhone SE (64GB), which would you take?
<daftykins> does it have to be those...
<m0nkey_> There is also the Moto Z Play
<m0nkey_> I want a cheap plan and phone. Don't care much for the platform.
<daftykins> what size LG G5 can you get?
<daftykins> storage wise
<m0nkey_> I think it's 32GB
<m0nkey_> But I can shove in a SD card
<daftykins> looks like the motorola is a fair step down in CPU and loses 1GB RAM compared with the LG G5, but it came out in September vs. the April G5 so it's a bit newer
<daftykins> i don't even consider Apple devices because i don't like the companies practices
<daftykins> ah the LG still has a removable battery though, if you care about that
<m0nkey_> Yeah, that's a nice legacy feature
<daftykins> i'm put off by the 2560x1440 res screen though :/ lot of wasted pixels
<diddledan> every pixie is sacred
<daftykins> when you see the default UI scale level it's pretty cringe at times
<m0nkey_> Meh, I guess specs don't bother me lately.
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-07
<daftykins> nah it's all the same junk really
<diddledan> if a pixie is wasted, god gets quite irate
<zmoylan-pi> i'd second daftykins apple avoidance... they seem to be making strange decisions these days
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: headphone jacks are overrated
<diddledan> as are the F* keys
<daftykins> heh i saw rumours today that Samsung may remove headphone jacks on the next gen, too
<diddledan> nobody uses F* keys
<daftykins> i do
<daftykins> all the time!
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure i can insert my nokia headset in latest iphone with sufficent effort...
<daftykins> only with 5 adapters ;)
<diddledan> daftykins: then get your apps to program the magic bar instead :-p
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, new high end samsung will be jackless...
<zmoylan-pi> dongle all the way
<daftykins> diddledan: ah most people are receiving those with super glitchy graphics so no need :>
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah and poor battery fwig
<daftykins> that's the one
<diddledan> from-what-i-gather
<daftykins> not to mention the bank balance dent for buying premum last years parts
<daftykins> oops not prior to the invention of mothers, premium!
<diddledan> lol
<m0nkey_> I don't use the jack, I use bluetooth, like I have done for the last 6 years
<diddledan> I prefer Bert to Jack
<daftykins> eww wireless technologies.
<zmoylan-pi> i like memory cards as been able to eject a card and transfer stuff comes in so handy
<m0nkey_> So, cast your votes. G5, iThing or ZPlay. Go!
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm gonna buy those overpriced ear dongles that apple are gonna hawk soon :-p
<daftykins> i vote Motorola
<diddledan> I vote sheep
<daftykins> diddledan: what's wrong with you!?
<diddledan> baa
<daftykins> they last like 3-5 hours or some jazz :P
<diddledan> 2 hours each!
<diddledan> stereo is passe
<daftykins> stereo isn't even about channel count from what i understand (:
<m0nkey_> Gotta admit, I'm leaning the Baa device
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> reviewers say it's not baaa-aaaad
<daftykins> 9 out of 10 sheperds agree
<daftykins> ok i best sleep, my pun work here is done
<zmoylan-pi> i got a cheap set of sony bt headphone in argos new catalog clearout.  10hours battery.
<zmoylan-pi> but still a pain in the bum when the batteries ran flat one time... thankfully i carry backup wired headset in my bag
<m0nkey_> Duck.. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/173199
<m0nkey_> "The Petitions Committee has decided not to schedule a debate on this petition. When it decides which petitions should be debated, the Committee looks at whether the subject has recently been debated by the House of Commons."
<diddledan> "and underwent unprecedented scrutiny" <-- they don't tell you that they ignored the response from that scrutiny which was 99% "WTF CHUCK?!"
<m0nkey_> Software Defined Radio.. it's awsome
<m0nkey_> http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/
<m0nkey_> Listening to morse code on 5595.4kHz upper side band
<diddledan> are you decoding it
<diddledan> ?
 * ball wants to try WSPR on SDR
<m0nkey_> I got the letters O S S and number 7
<m0nkey_> My Morse code is rusty as hell
<ball> _._. __._
<ball> 73 and good night.
<mapps> hi
<mapps> hola
<knightwise> hey mapps
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy International Civil Aviation Day! ð â
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQn8pab8Vc and just remember you bought this one on yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGnuMxFnc1k
<JamesTait> davmor2, not https://youtu.be/vLBKOcUbHR0 ?
<knightwise> Tried out Teamviewer on my raspberry pi yesterday.
<knightwise> Worked like a breeze
<davmor2> JamesTait: no I was thinking of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw
<davmor2> JamesTait: but I thought you'd like that too much :)
<davmor2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0ZXD89Bq0  enjoy everyone
<SuperMatt> I'm enjoying this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azBX_0QjLRM
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you have an odd sense of enjoyment
<SuperMatt> I was worried that the political silly season would end after May was made PM, but it really does keep going on
<davmor2> SuperMatt: I'm sorry you think there is an end to the political silly season hahahahahaha
<SuperEngineer> don't panoc folks, no ghost "me" today.  phone now set up so it's "normal" me [as if there actually such a thing as a "normal" me!]
<ball> hello directhex
<ball> Does Ubuntu include USB 3.0 support?
<davmor2> ball: yes
<ball> Thanks davmor2
<arsen> where does update-rc.d look for possible service candidates (vs 'service <name> <command>') ?
<BigRedS> arsen: /etc/init.d historically...
<BigRedS> I've not kept up with post-sysV inits though
<diddledan> you should use systemctl enable/disable instead now
<arsen> on jessie/sid?
<diddledan> err. /me checks the channel name
<diddledan> I have no idea what is included in whichever debian
<arsen> sorry, was buntu not deb, just has the debian_version file
<arsen> twas 14.04.
<knightwise> Yeey :)
 * knightwise got an old second hand 19 inch 5/4 monitor to hook up to my pi
 * knightwise happy
<ball> knightwise: composite video input?
<knightwise> hdmi to dvi
<ball> Oh nice. I use those too.
<daftykins> that's pretty ghetto :)
<ball> daftykins: What is?
<zmoylan-pi> you're like those poor apple folk having to resort to dongles to use good headphones... :-P
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> s/good//
<ball> Nothing wrong with an HDMI -> DVD-D cable.
<ball> No more loss there than an HDMI -> HDMI cable.
<daftykins> i was getting at the 19" old display :>
<daftykins> and yes, both speak TMDS
<ball> Ah, ok.
<daftykins> still got a 19" here mind, my first ever LCD
<daftykins> just sits by the server nowadays with rare usage due to RDP
<knightwise> I am playing around with teamviewer to remote control the pi too
<knightwise> but its somewhat sootihing to have a "little" screen to work on
<ball> My boss was talking about teamviewer. He was hoping to use it with a Raspberry Pi, I think.
<daftykins> i predict more DDoS attacks from unpatched Pis running amok!
<ball> I've powered down my Pi.  I should try it again one day with Linux but it didn't work very well with NetBSD.
<ball> I mean, it worked, but can't play video.
<daftykins> perhaps they're too much of sticklers for some closed broadcom code that makes things work, perhaps?
<ball> ...and was too slow to browse the Web.
<daftykins> actually that got all open sauced i thought
<ball> daftykins: Under which license though?
<daftykins> not a clue
<ball> That could be an obstacle, too.
<daftykins> crikey this thai curry is hot :D
 * ball goes back to pricing Travan tapes.
<daftykins> hmm those look weird
<foobarry> how can i encourage my wifi card to use 5ghz?
<daftykins> i always name the 5GHz networks $name-5G so there's no hopping issues
<daftykins> then you can have it as a higher priority network
<foobarry> do most mobile hpones support 5g too?
<foobarry> man i've got bad lag tonight
<daftykins> for a couple of years now
<daftykins> the Nexus 4 from 2012 does
<foobarry> ah, my moto g doesnt :(
<foobarry> i got a new talktalk router :|
<davmor2> foobarry: hit and miss anything flagship tends to support 5g any thing other than flagship and it's anyones guess :)
<foobarry> my laptop does support it but doesn't seem to have connected at 5ghz
<foobarry> is hopping a bad thing?
<daftykins> well it's obviously sub optimal if it's going to keep switching band based on signal levels
<daftykins> much easier to just give separate names
<ball> foobarry: My work phone does. My home phone doesn't.
<daftykins> rare proof of Ken Bruce and Lynn Bowles being human - for any Radio 2 fans :) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyqfuWIXUAAkITf.jpg:large
<daftykins> gotta love that banter
<diddledan> "it's just bants mate"
<daftykins> eh?
<daftykins> that mainlanderese? :)
<foobarry> hmm, 5G ssid not showing up on my laptop
<foobarry> iwlist wlan0 freq shows the 5ghz  freqs
<daftykins> reduce the channel number
<daftykins> something in the low 40s should be fine
<foobarry> ah, its working.
<foobarry> very laggy
<foobarry> ping times are massive
<foobarry> only a few yds from the router
<daftykins> might still prefer other channels, depends
<diddledan> we're still in the EU, metres, please
<foobarry> bit rate is allegedly higher
<foobarry> but i can't see what i'm typing
<daftykins> my understanding was that Linux tends to do badly with 5GHz lappy radios
<foobarry> ah
<daftykins> no idea if that's changed
<foobarry> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 166.585/694.905/1173.308/308.287 ms, pipe 2
<foobarry> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 34.803/117.296/268.935/75.339 ms
<foobarry> quite a difference
<daftykins> is that just between having both bands as one SSID vs. separating them?
<foobarry> flipping between 2 iffernt SSIDs
<foobarry> firmware on the router a bit out od date as i only got it today
<foobarry> maybe it will get update overnight
<foobarry> 2.4 ghz seems to get more errors though
<foobarry> 5gz more discards
<foobarry> could be thislaptop
<foobarry> oh i'm wrong, this is latest firmware
<foobarry> oh wow...disabling power saving in powertop has a distinct effect
<daftykins> ah yeah, standard thing - what's the adapter?
<foobarry> 04:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Advanced-N 6230 [Rainbow Peak] (rev 34)
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> oh intel, you used to be the Linux wifi reference cards :(
<foobarry> could be the fix. no lag on 5ghz now
<daftykins> hope this results in a conviction \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37474595
<foobarry> http://pastebin.com/8abQ7VjX
<foobarry> see if u can see the moment i disable power save
<daftykins> heh wow that really was bad
<daftykins> perhaps you still have some neighbourhood networks on 5GHz overlapping? i get 2ms on mine
<diddledan> foobarry: around 1054ms you turned it off powersave
<diddledan> probably just before
<diddledan> sequence 5-6
<foobarry> after the 108ms. suddenly plummets to 19ms
<diddledan> mmhmm
<foobarry> i was pinging google dns rather than my router
<foobarry> i should do my router
<zmoylan-pi> *bzzzzz* things said by single geeks... :-P
<foobarry> man, i've had this problem for so long
<foobarry> irc always been laggy from home
<foobarry> websites seem ok
<daftykins> oh yeah i didn't even pay attention to the target XD
<daftykins> how you folks put up with such crap from your home setups i don't know :)
<foobarry> 2.4ghz seems to get lower minimums but more unstable
<daftykins> i can imagine wanting to avoid it after a long day... but daym
<foobarry> because i'm at work on a 10GB connection most of the day
<foobarry> i've been ill for 4 days and off work
<foobarry> onlt well enough to look at a tv today though
<daftykins> install wifi analyser on an android phone and see how the channels you're using fit with the neighbourhood on each band
<foobarry> i did that, but the problem is maainly this prower saving on the card
<zmoylan-pi> i got a collection of hammers and take it to any misbehaving hardware... you'd be suprised how well hardware behaves when they see what happened to the toaster... :-P
<daftykins> poor toaster :(
<daftykins> is it Talky Toaster?
<m0nkey_> Would you like some toast?
<zmoylan-pi> that'll teach it to hurt holly!
<daftykins> how about a muffin?
<m0nkey_> Would you like a cheese and ham Breville?
<zmoylan-pi> i suppose a bap is out of the question...
<m0nkey_> Sorry, but no. I've bun out.
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/evanrachelwood/status/806589833560801280
<zmoylan-pi> pity, we were on a roll
<m0nkey_> A toast!
<diddledan> I knead more
<daftykins> bready or not
<zmoylan-pi> those would only be half baked
<m0nkey_> We shouldn't waffle on like this
<daftykins> my puns haven't risen yet
<diddledan> bagel
<daftykins> diddledan: hah at first i wondered why it was just a fuzzed out iPhone home screen
<daftykins> rubbish way to convey info
<m0nkey_> You shouldn't flower the truth
<m0nkey_> And yeast of all, toast!
<diddledan> ok, I've had enough, just shut your cake hole!
<m0nkey_> Sorry, no bun intended.
<diddledan> cinnamon gonna sin
<zmoylan-pi> that's using your loaf
<m0nkey_> I'll try not to sugar coat the truth
<diddledan> time I put you on ice(d bun)
<daftykins> donut stop (sorry, 'murica spelling)
<foobarry> oh, the power saving keeps enabling itself
<foobarry> more work required, but first bedtime
<m0nkey_> It's currenty impossible.
<diddledan> I'm burnt
<diddledan> burned?
<m0nkey_> Sorry, but I'm unable to rise to the occasion. I'm baked.
<daftykins> Canada for you ;)
<daftykins> http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=299446 :( this is sad, i knew this guy in #kodi
<ball> One day I'll make it to Canada.
<m0nkey_> I did. 7 years ago.
<m0nkey_> I just never left
<zmoylan-pi> they left him in the centre and he's still walking towards civilisation... :-P
<daftykins> headed dueeeeee sooooouth... that's the way he's goooin ~
<daftykins> who remembers that series? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it was a great show
<zmoylan-pi> though i preferred northern exposure
<daftykins> not familiar with that one
<zmoylan-pi> a ny doctor gets his medical school bills paid for if he does a few years service in alaska... hi jinx ensue when he can't escape his service in middle of nowhere
<zmoylan-pi> cult following, very popular in its time
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Exposure
<diddledan> daftykins: I loved that show
<daftykins> Diefenbaker-dan!
<diddledan> ray veccio was the cop, but I can't think of the RCMP guy
<daftykins> crikey i don't know where in my memory i pulled that one from, i should get some episodes
<daftykins> and the car model he loved so
<diddledan> I remembered "Diefenbaker" as the wolf but didn't remember the dan bit
<ball> I liked Northern Exposure!
<daftykins> nah i added that to involve you, sir :P
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> gotcha
<diddledan> so Donald Trump is TIME Magazine's "Person of the Year"
<ball> Ugh.
<daftykins> ^ Ugh.
<ball> Vile wretch that he is.
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> something I said?
<diddledan> or did the Trump Protection Detail get him?
<zmoylan-pi> now that's a job that will see some overtime timesheets turned in...
<daftykins> the walls have ears
<daftykins> <_< >_>
<zmoylan-pi> and every laptop, phone, tablet, smart tv...
<diddledan> unless it's got a Picasso hanging on it, in which case the wall cut it's own ears off
<zmoylan-pi> thankfully i'm a ninja who sneaks up on cats for practice... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: with a cucumber?
<zmoylan-pi> no, that would be cruel.  i give them a gentle head rub and annoy them that they didn't notice me approaching
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsysNml153M
<daftykins> i must be some form of ninja, one clients house is huge so when i am going to and fro i often give others heart attacks
<daftykins> i've joked about needing a cow bell
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> be festive and a set of rudolph antlers with bells on and a red blinky nose...
<diddledan> launch at 23:53 UTC: https://youtu.be/C7RD-u2g6Wg
<daftykins> aww but that's bed time
<zmoylan-pi> not if you're trying to sleep within a mile or two of that launch it isn't...
<diddledan> sonic, BOOM!
<zmoylan-pi> YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP, THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING NEXT DOOR AGAIN
<daftykins> gerd dern neighbours
<diddledan> oh those guys, they're always at it in the bedroom
<zmoylan-pi> but in a moment of pure syncronisation the washing machine gives off no vibrations whatsoever as it is in perfect harmony with the rest of the building...
<diddledan> something about orbital insertion with their long stick
<daftykins> rudeler!
<diddledan> since when have I been anything but?
<daftykins> i'll get back to you on that
<diddledan> in other news, butts
<diddledan> will this giant pokey thing explode?
<diddledan> I vote yes.
<daftykins> guaranteed, but whether in a controlled fashion or not is perhaps the deciding angle ;D
<zmoylan-pi> no they remembered to set explodeontakeoff=false in it's ini file...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that sounds like a kerbal thing
<daftykins> so glad chat is disabled
<daftykins> guess Jeb is sitting this one out
<daftykins> (did they just say the shrimp are running?)
<zmoylan-pi> light blue touch paper and retire...
<daftykins> the way that flame crept up was scary :P
<daftykins> that almost sounded like 'voice of Patrick Moore'
<daftykins> but i'm sure he's busy playing the xylaphone
<zmoylan-pi> the announcer is called patrick moore
<zmoylan-pi> accident with a cloning machine probably
<zmoylan-pi> you know what christmas parties are like with copiers...
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-08
<daftykins> yep, all they wanna do is talk about their toner
<daftykins> free assassin's creed 3 on ubisoft's uplay right now, for any gamers
<zmoylan-pi> will it work on my dumb nokia? :-P
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/Snh-ufvXWIk
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> g'night \o
<diddledan> nn
<m0nkey_> She's got one of them squeaky singing voices. The kind that sounds like a dog chewing on a toy.
<m0nkey_> But the band sounds good.
<m0nkey_> lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x9aJOfW0Nk
<knightwise>  morning guys
<diplo> Morning all, anyone own a Xperia E5 ? Need to find a phone for Â£150~ if anyone has any suggestion, I was getting the p9 lite but ordered failed
<davmor2> Morning all
<knightwise> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Pretend To Be A Time Traveler Day! ð
<diddledan> JamesTait: didn't you say that tomorrow?
<davmor2> JamesTait:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aizCMO-mI1Q and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CYDgezeQas
<diddledan> there are more mobile internet users in china than there is population in europe
<davmor2> diddledan: welcome to the world we live where even the street beggers have mobile ;)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> that's a knife! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-vNo6H5gww
<DJones> Morning all
<diddledan> allo
<diddledan> really dark this morning
<DJones> Yeah, it is here, probably going to rain
<DJones> At least I've got no plans on going out today, need a quiet day after yesterdays  adventures
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/i/moments/806548658346987520
<foobarry> if i add module options to by kernel command in grub, do they get remembered on subsequent kernel upgrades?
<diddledan> yes and no
<diddledan> it depends how you add it to grub
<diddledan> if you edit /boot/grub/grub.conf then it'll get lost - the correct way is to edit /etc/default/grub and run `update-grub`
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> need to remember this for later tonight :P
<diddledan> I think I got the command name right - it's either update-grub or grub-update
<foobarry> aren't there also config files for modules within the OS?
<diddledan> in the olden days there used to be an /etc/modprobe.d
<foobarry> has that gone?
<diddledan> I don't know whether it's still there or not.. I've not had to force load specific modules in ages
<diddledan> if the module is necessary for boot and can't be loaded off disk (such as a module for a raid card where the module is saved on the disk that the card controls, causing a catch-22) then it will need to be included in the initrd - in those olden days you'd edit the modprobe config and run mkinitrd
<diddledan> https://imgur.com/a/uhaYz
<foobarry> cafe owner knows me so well. asked for bacon sandwich today. not a roll? are you unwell? well yes i am actually
<zmoylan-pi> and then he asked you to pay your account of... :-P
<foobarry> they only take cash...
<davmor2> diddledan: is the game over card simply "And what's this button do"?
<daftykins> hahaha
<foobarry> so..talktalk routers - do i need to request a firmware update or i just wait?
<daftykins> one would imagine their support line has all the answers
<daftykins> probably quite busy given all the issues right now though :)
 * popey hugs openwrt
<daftykins> i think it's harder to get xDSL routers that can run the open ones, since the chipsets tend to have closed drivers for the transceiver portion
<popey> right, but you don't have to use the wifi in the dsl router
<popey> (which is what I do, switch off wifi and use my own)
<daftykins> if i wanted to be a bit safer i'd have to run a minimum of 2 boxes, likely 3
<daftykins> which is a bit lulzworthy
 * popey looks at his 4 routers :)
<popey> 3 running openwrt
<daftykins> i've got one of those Huawei HG612s that BT used to put out for their services
<foobarry> mine is hg633
<daftykins> i suspect you're referring to extra ones that are just on WAP duty?
<popey> two do dhcp for two different networks
<popey> one is a bridge
<popey> one network is firewalled off from the rest, so guests can use that
<popey> and not see mah stuff
<daftykins> mmhmm
<popey> i do like those netgear wndr3700v2 access points
<popey> easy to flash, enough ports, multiple radios.
<daftykins> N600 tops, eww
<daftykins> old hat now
<popey> yeah, dunno what I'd choose if I was replacing them
<daftykins> anything with good specs doesn't seem to moddable
<daftykins> http://netgear.co.uk/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/R6400.aspx i found this one cheap the other day so put it in for a client to get proper -ac and dual band, but no options for open firmware
<daftykins> weird to find a router cheaper and better spec than most WAP models :P
<daftykins> threw it on, updated firmware then disabled DHCP - done \o/
<davmor2> I have no issues with my tplinks pretty much all of them can be flashed with both dd-wrt and open-wrt work well last well sit in the corner and do their job nicely thanks :)
<daftykins> i've had one fail already, they only make very low spec ones too
<davmor2> Nothing like going ott with antenna http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/cat-9_Archer-C5400.html
<daftykins> ugh :P
<daftykins> those kinds of devices are what folk who are doing it wrong get :P
<daftykins> "surely i can run my whole property from one box" newp
<davmor2> daftykins: you can you just need a small bungalow
<davmor2> For the caravan I use a Huawei http://consumer.huawei.com/uk/home-internet/lte-router/gallery/b310-uk.htm
<foobarry> how do battery connectors stick to circuit boards?
<foobarry> solder?
<Seeker`> solder / screws / clips
<foobarry> the one on my wiimote is unstuck
<ball> Time for a new Wiimote. That'll be about UKP 200.
<foobarry> its a gold special edition
<ball> Trump Edition?
<diddledan> my ubiquity unifi-ac-lr is pretty funky for distance. I can sit outside in a car and still get wifi :-p
<diddledan> claimed distance is 183m
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/12/internet-of-google-api-change-triggers-epson-printer-revolt/
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> love the irony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6UtGcGPLM
<daftykins> ugh NSFL link - it's boringly political
<daftykins> (not safe for life)
<diddledan> channel4's on demand service "advert error. we're funded entirely by adverts. you may be running an ad blocker. you can see where we're going here..."
<popey> 4od is terrible
<popey> always has been
<popey> sometimes it will show the adverts *only* and refuse to actually show the programme
<diddledan> it's low res for a start
<popey> and if you skip forward, you're forced to watch more ads
<popey> it's the worst
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> maybe they just hate FOSS? ;)
<foobarry> 4od is punishment. i feel dirty watching stuff on it
<foobarry> most series i have started watching, i have not enjoyed, and stopped soon after due to the adverts pain
<foobarry> itv are going to a model of paying Â£4 a month to remove ads if you want
<foobarry> yay i have fixed my wifi after not realising how chronic it was for maybe 2 years
<daftykins> :)
<foobarry> ping time to router now 1ms instead of 500-1000ms
<daftykins> \o/
<foobarry> i don't put up with this at work. strange that i didn't realise at home
<daftykins> so it was pretty much solely the intel Linux driver in the end?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash iwlwifi.power_save=N iwldvm.force_cam=Y"
<daftykins> real shame they've gotten so bad
<foobarry> ahhh irc is soo responsive
<foobarry> its quite old machine (3yrs)
<daftykins> doesn't matter, i think intel adapters have suffered for ages
<daftykins> well, in Loonix land anyways, where simple things like wifi can't be taken for granted
<diddledan> daftykins: we're not in kansas anymore
<diddledan> can't take _anything_ for granted!
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> it's a bit laughable though when you think about it
 * ball shivvers
<daftykins> mmm chilly over there eh?
<ball> -7C, light snow.
<diddledan> I don't know what the weather is like here
 * diddledan asks siri
<diddledan> light rain, 12C
<zmoylan-pi> been old school, i prefer teletext like weather forecasts... :-) http://wttr.in/dublin
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you're safe from nukes! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38256151
<zmoylan-pi> nah, we'd all just pop round to relatives in the uk to avoid the problem...
<diddledan> I like that weather forecast, but the alignments are off
<ball> I should go and do a thing.
<diddledan> omg, not a thing
<daftykins> it is too late, the thing is to be done
<diddledan> bah
<zmoylan-pi> at least it's not a thang as we'd need a banjo to complete it
<zmoylan-pi> and todays commuter hell was brought to you by swans... :-P http://www.newstalk.com/Swans-delay-DART-due-to-cygnet-fault
<diddledan> cygnet sounds like a hacker chatroom
<daftykins> worse, it's skynet but run using cygwin D:
<diddledan> dear god
<diddledan> at least cygwin can be largely replaced with bash now
<diddledan> (bash on windows is a terrible name!)
<zmoylan-pi> unless your code now depends on a bug in cygwin to run properly... :-P
<diddledan> https://hackaday.com/2016/12/08/bitbanging-vga-fits-in-under-1-kb/
<daftykins> bit what now? :P
<diddledan> bit naughties!
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/Motoma/status/806881670439677953
<daftykins> someone must be feeling a bit lysdexic
<diddledan> think about it closely
<diddledan> the S stands for security. there is no s
<daftykins> yes i was and i find it pretty bad :(
<daftykins> also it was much easier to paste the text than have us load the page ;)
<diddledan> I didn't want to take credit :-p
<zmoylan-pi> whoever chose the spelling of dyslexia was a cruel cruel person...
<daftykins> must've been the same smug git that came up with Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
<diddledan> it should be called "word ronging"
<zmoylan-pi> or the one who made abbreviation such a long word...
<diddledan> at least the word gullible is stricken from the dictionary
<zmoylan-pi> god speed john glenn...
<diddledan> rest among the stars *sniff*
<zmoylan-pi> 'From the stars we came. To the stars we return, from now until the end of time.' babylon 5
<daftykins> http://www.macrumors.com/2016/12/08/apple-campus-2-inside-look/
<daftykins> cult HQ is nearing completion
 * zmoylan-pi thinks of all the huge companies that have these grand projects of new spectacular hqs that implode soon afterwards...
<daftykins> we can but hope
<diddledan> shauno would be mad if that happened
<zmoylan-pi> he'd rage join irc? :-P
<diddledan> I love that landing on the moon was easier than faking it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU
<zmoylan-pi> i think the best comment on fake moon landings was by kubricks daughter who said that if anyone knew her father he would have landed ON the moon to shoot them...
<daftykins> i read there's a competition going on to land 2km away and verify things :) but they can't get closer than 200m
<zmoylan-pi> why land, get into lunar orbit and overfly the site...
<daftykins> that wouldn't be good enough
<zmoylan-pi> with no atmospehere it wouldn't need much of a lens to see the site adequately
<ali1234> nothing will ever be good enough
 * zmoylan-pi blows dust of plans for giant trebuchet to fling conspiracy theory nuts AT the landing site...
<ali1234> google "hologram moon" if you want to rage
<zmoylan-pi> i would have gone with space cannon but jules vernes estate would probably sue for copyright...
<diddledan> https://github.com/jvtm/wm3con
<diddledan> australian drink-drive campaign advert hits home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mf8DtWWd8
<diddledan> adn then we have morons: https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/806987695687876608
<ball> diddledan: No shortage of those in the world.
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> moron than off!
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-09
<diddledan> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-DC-DRM-No
<diddledan> wat: https://github.com/plasma-umass/browsix
<davmor2> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, happy Anti-Corruption Day, and happy lost+found Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc think this is apt if only for the video :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Gargoyle> mornin
<brobostigon> morning
<m0nkey_> Huh, seems my city as of today is now a metropolis.
<zmoylan-pi> your commute is now upgraded from pleasent trip to dystopian nightmare...
<m0nkey_> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-proposes-greater-autonomy-grants-metropolis-status-for-montreal-1.3888329
<m0nkey_> It was already a nightmare
<ali1234> can i transfer a domain to someone who's email address is @ that domain?
<m0nkey_> Yes
<m0nkey_> During the transfer you can tell the new registrar to keep the existing DNS
<ali1234> i dont want to change the registrar
<ali1234> i want to change the owner
<ali1234> example: i own foo.com
<ali1234> i create a new user account at my registrar with email address stupiduser@foo.com
<ali1234> then i transfer ownership of foo.com to stupiduser
<ali1234> of course stupiduser is just me, but with a different email and postal address
<Mak_Trefa> Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð² Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼
<Mak_Trefa> ÐºÑÐ¾-Ð½Ð¸ÑÑ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÑ, ÑÐµÐ¼ Ð² Ð»Ð¸Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶Ð½Ð¾ SSD Ð¿ÑÐ¾Ð³Ð½Ð°ÑÑ Ð½Ð° Ð²Ð¾ÑÑÐ°Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ðµ Ñ HFS+ ÑÐ°Ð·Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð¾Ð¼?
<foobarry> Mak_Trefa: uk = United Kingdom
<Seeker`> I'm sure there used to be a factoid about that
<Seeker`> !ukraine
<foobarry> !uk
<lubotu3`> Join us for a discussion using the Queen's English in #ubuntu-uk
<zmoylan-pi> hiberno english also acceptible :-)
<ali1234> !ua
<Mak_Trefa> sorry
<foobarry> net problemo
<Seeker`> !ru
<lubotu3`> ÐÐ¾Ð¶Ð°Ð»ÑÐ¹ÑÑÐ° Ð½Ð°Ð±ÐµÑÐ¸ÑÐµ /join #ubuntu-ru Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾ÑÐ¸ Ð½Ð° ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð¼ ÑÐ·ÑÐºÐµ. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
<foobarry> ya lublu morozhenoe
<zmoylan-pi> it is a beautiful alphabet mind...
<m0nkey_> Ð´Ð°
<m0nkey_> Also.. Ð¢Ð°Ðº
<m0nkey_> Ð¦Ðµ Ð½Ðµ ÑÐºÑÐ°ÑÐ½ÑÑÐºÐ¸Ð¹ ÐºÐ°Ð½Ð°Ð»
<m0nkey_> k, back to work for m e
<m0nkey_> *me
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, right that's me happy for now :)  someone around here  wanted to buy a  new cd player for some rason, but bought a buetooth boombox .  so that's a cd player, a radio,  and all with a nice pair of spakers, and yes the bluetooth. so listening to music from tablet on it now :)
<diddledan> lol @ alexa hijacking in ubuntu podcast to send tweets saying how great the ubuntu podcast is :-p
<diddledan> god this is bad: https://twitter.com/ericlaw/status/807276698559516677
<diddledan> from a gov website no less!
<zmoylan-pi> well with all the other spying on your actions online, what's a few more criminals?
<daftykins> oof, 5 mile ride severely kicked my posterior today
<daftykins> Packard Hell still exist! https://www.dropbox.com/s/9uydhwpfxzg07yf/IMG_20161209_134411.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> yeesh
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwht3jkyo84wfwh/IMG_20161209_134422.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> crazy SFF style unit there
<zmoylan-pi> first pc i got my brother was a packard bell... cheap, solid and shipped with all the software and hardware he'd ever neeed
<daftykins> win 3.11 and solitaire? :D
<zmoylan-pi> win me :-D x2
<daftykins> wow you must really not have got on!
<zmoylan-pi> it gave no grief till he started using it online in a location where his phone line was split with a neightbour so struggled to get 28k
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> i was really jealous of the lady today, she's practically opposite the parish exchange, so her VDSL line syncs at 82Mb down and 32Mb up
<zmoylan-pi> at least with me as it was win 9x you could rip put every virus with just a boot disk... when i upgraded it to win2000 to make a new printer work it got a lot harder to keep going
<zmoylan-pi> that's when he got a mac
<daftykins> eww. hope you insult that at every opportunity
<zmoylan-pi> at 28k the 5mb download twice a week of av updates got cancelled constantly
<zmoylan-pi> the mac wasn't infected every week needing a reinstall from scratch
<daftykins> nor would a Windows machine in the right hands, but so it goes.
<daftykins> must've been a fan of the naughty side of the tubes...
<zmoylan-pi> that's when he began his evil plan to get broadband... he rang them once a month till it was installed.... just over a year iirc... he can be _very_ persistent
<daftykins> same brother that had the words with the supermarket exit driver fella? :)
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> he has a gift....
<diddledan> so cure: https://anki.com/en-us/cozmo
<diddledan> cute*
<m0nkey_> Guys, I need a new phone. I've decided to use some of my savings so I'm not being a cheap bastard (Like I was being the other day) .. suggestions?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> you sure? they tend to be crap that is redundant in a couple of years so it might make more sense going with those basic (presumed telco contract) offers
 * zmoylan-pi temples fingers and prepares pure evil suggestion of a nokia 3310 >:-)
<m0nkey_> Now I can look at the S7, iPhone 7 and other similar devices.
<m0nkey_> Or the Google Pixel
<daftykins> and the OnePlus 3T
<diddledan> m0nkey_: the moto G gets good reviews for a budget device - for top-end I like my iPhone 7 :-p
<daftykins> diddledan: you disappoint me!
<diddledan> daftykins: baa
<m0nkey_> I got to admit. I sort of like the iPhone
<daftykins> how can you do dev and be ok with their evil moves?
<diddledan> daftykins: because baa
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> what are the sheep's feelings on the matter?
<diddledan> he has no choice, I cornered him
<zmoylan-pi> any iphone as long as it's white
<diddledan> I'm somewhat intrigued by the daydream vr thingy but don't think I'd use it
<daftykins> i've just been handed a brand-spankin' Dell XPS 13 9360, the kaby lake edition (intel i5 gen 7)
<diddledan> *drool*
<m0nkey_> Thing is, an iPhone tends to just work. Pretty much any accessory will.
<m0nkey_> Also, it has the added bonus of being compatible with my car head unit.
<daftykins> and you use how many?
<m0nkey_> I just a few bluetooth thingies
<daftykins> just don't forget to subtract headphones from that list sans-adapter ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it just works, as long as you do things the apple way and are prepared to keep following their lead
<diddledan> adapter comes in the box
<m0nkey_> Heh, headphone are already bluetooth. I couldn't give a m0nkey_ about not having a headphone jack.
<diddledan> plus they give you a pair of lightning headphones too
<zmoylan-pi> i believe people lose the adapter quite easily
 * m0nkey_ uses his big ass Bluetooth headphones
<daftykins> i suppose folk who don't care for quality use the stock ones
<diddledan> >.<
<m0nkey_> Which are quite warm during the brisk Canadian winter days
 * zmoylan-pi also uses big headphones on cold days to keep my ears warm
<daftykins> well, seems that despite you asking your mind is already made up!
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> the need for real headphones over bt might only be a valid argument if there is good fm radio available in canada
<daftykins> well i would personally never even consider wireless tech for such a job
<diddledan> did anyone spot this link I mentioned in the darkest hours of the night: https://github.com/plasma-umass/browsix
<zmoylan-pi> one weird thing i have had happen with bt is that sometimes in aldi and lidl they tried to connect to their staff headset intercom thingy
<daftykins> "would zmoylan-phone please come to customer service for a swift clout 'round the ear 'ole"
<daftykins> i got a right dirty look from the supermarket checkout lady out in the furthest parish today, must've been disapproving of my coming from 'so far' away :)
<daftykins> sort of League of Gentlemen moment
<zmoylan-pi> just as long as you get out of there before sunset...
<daftykins> oh i did, no bike lights on me so i had to hurry away!
<daftykins> could've gone to the cinema had i had them on me - quite keen to see The Arrival but i see they've stopped showing it already :|
<zmoylan-pi> cycling in winter without lights...
<daftykins> yeah, i got home in light hours still so it was fine
<daftykins> i was quite unlucky because the batteries i had in one had leaked the white goodness and ruined the whole unit i discovered the other day
<zmoylan-pi> i haven't had alkaline batteries leak in years..
<daftykins> i've had a batch of 4 Duracell all do it just in the last month :(
<zmoylan-pi> check that they are genuine duracells?
<daftykins> finished the pack now
<zmoylan-pi> one of the main reason i bought them was they guaranteed no leaks
<diddledan> those energizer adverts are misleading: how many zinc batteries do you see in the shops at all these days let alone buy?
<zmoylan-pi> when i used them in psion and palm it was super important to me
<diddledan> "we last much longer than a battery you can't buy"
<daftykins> maybe back in the day they advertised homo-sapiens over neanderthals in the same way
<diddledan> "homo sapiens have much more brainpower than the leading homo erectus"
<zmoylan-pi> 20% usage in uk... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E2%80%93carbon_battery#History
<m0nkey_> I think I've decided.
<zmoylan-pi> windows phone \o/
<m0nkey_> Baaah
<diddledan> oh he's sheeping it, \o/ for apple!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> >:)
<zmoylan-pi> no love for blackberry
<diddledan> <insert evil emoticon here>
<m0nkey_> the DTEK-60 is interesting
<daftykins> the whaaa?
<diddledan> m0nkey_: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JBBM92G/ref=s9_zgift_hd_bw_b35SnbL_g23_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_r=NG0294FZ1GPTA3XEAWD0&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=2a4b8882-fc45-557f-ab4e-13303a876d88&pf_rd_i=2829144031
<diddledan> eww @ amazon links
<m0nkey_> Couple of reasons for iSheep. 1) Car, plug-in and go. Works seamlessly with the head unit. 2) Don't use Gmail, I use plain IMAP hosted by FastMail, they support push on the iDevice. 3) Couldn't give a hoot about the lack of headphone jack. I use bluetooth headphones. :)
<daftykins> well you only need up to the / before 'ref=' :)
<m0nkey_> diddledan, awesome.
<daftykins> i suppose on the plus side you fit even better as new-shauno now, m0nkey_ ;D
<m0nkey_> True
<m0nkey_> Until the day I rage quit.
<daftykins> it's ok, we'll reign in zmoylan-pi :>
<diddledan> you're all lucky that I'm never rage quitting!
<diddledan> or should that be "fated"
<daftykins> nobody else will take you 8D
<diddledan> well that's true
<m0nkey_> I gotta go shovel the snow. Back later.
<zmoylan-pi> he's just stepping outside, he may be some time...
<m0nkey_> If I'm not back in 20 minutes. Just wait longer.
 * daftykins sets the clock
<daftykins> i'll make it 32 minutes, 'cause that's how long until the cylons catch up again </BSG>
 * zmoylan-pi allows for 5 minutes moose tax
<diddledan> daftykins: I was thinking exactly the same
<daftykins> 8D
<diddledan> http://darkpatterns.org/
<diddledan> this one is sky: http://darkpatterns.org/skys-marketing-preferences-puzzle/
<knightwise> morning
<daftykins> o/
<knightwise> daftykins: I love that reference to the clock
<knightwise> reminds me i could probably rewatch BSG-reboot
<daftykins> :D i was only reminded of it from snagging season 1 in bluray and skipping through the first episode a bit
 * knightwise needs to setup his linux laptop for the wife tonight
<knightwise> gonna borrow her macbookpro for the weekend
<daftykins> D:
<knightwise> So wifewife is going to be using the xps13 with elementary
 * davmor2 setups up mr blobby, agadoo, pineapple pen, stutter rap, shut up your face, chicken song and startreking on a loop that only stops when diddledan rage quits, muhahahahahahahahahahaha I know how to be evil
<knightwise> Star Trekking !
<knightwise> Mr blobby rules
<zmoylan-pi> across the universe
 * knightwise misses noels house party
<daftykins> knightwise: i'm setting up a brand new XPS 13 9360 tonight :)
<knightwise> Wicked
<davmor2> knightwise: yeah but come on did you hear the song
<knightwise> touchscreen version  .?
<knightwise> the blobby song ?
 * knightwise has to youtube that
<daftykins> i said to a client that he could save upwards of Â£300 for a 9350 off the Dell Outlet, but he was impatient so brand new 9360 it was - Â£916 delivered here in tax free lands
<zmoylan-pi> if you want good scifi get babylon 5
<knightwise> daftykins: and now you have to put vista on it
<knightwise> yeah , bab5 is also great
<davmor2> quick everyone hide the knives, ropes and shoelaces while knightwise listens to mr blobby on youtube
<daftykins> nah not touch screen, i5/8GB/256GB/FHD model - best for battery life
<knightwise> me also loves space1999
<knightwise> I have the same versiond
<zmoylan-pi> season 1 or 2?
<knightwise> Season 1
<zmoylan-pi> season 1 is better
<knightwise> true, Anderson quit after season 1 , because the americans wanted more cheap spacemonsters
<zmoylan-pi> and the design of the eagle is still one of the best spaceships ever to make it to tv
<knightwise> Agreed
<knightwise> basically its the space version of a ford transit
<knightwise> durable, hardworking and utilitarian
<zmoylan-pi> and so good it made it into red dwarf...
<knightwise> Now there is a show I never got
<diddledan> babylon 5 is probably the best of 90s scifi
<zmoylan-pi> red dwarf is awesome, at least up till season 6
<zmoylan-pi> split between ds9 and babylon 5
<m0nkey_> Time?
<diddledan> time!
<diddledan> 19:17 - 19:59 = 42 minutes
<knightwise> just watched all seasons of ds9 again
<zmoylan-pi> 43 minutes...
<m0nkey_> Really?
<diddledan> is DS9 on netfix yet?
<knightwise> yep
<m0nkey_> diddledan, yes it is.
<davmor2> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNkgDJpcuwU
<diddledan> davmor2: you complete bar steward!
<m0nkey_> Well, I did do the extra scrape all the icy crap, move the car to clear the snow underneath.
<diddledan> that's evil!
<knightwise> Oh man thats bad
<knightwise> Running linux on my chromebook and i'm using the opera vpn client to watch that video :)
<knightwise> Now thats evil ;Ã 
<davmor2> diddledan: you're welcome I'll make you rage quit I'm that evil muhahahahahaha
<diddledan> :-p
 * davmor2 hugs diddledan 
<diddledan> \o/
<knightwise> brb, walking home
<davmor2> anyway guys and gals have a wonderful weekend
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> roger, wilco
<zmoylan-pi> over, dunne
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrRdy4BAYp0
<m0nkey_> Technically, Dunn was under Oveur and I was under Dunn.
<m0nkey_> So, you see, both Dunn and I were under Oveur, even though I was under Dunn.
<diddledan> love those movies
<m0nkey_> ugh, trying to run portsnap on my bsd box, the mirror is so damn slow
<daftykins> have i mentioned how great Apple software is on Windows, lately?
<daftykins> right now you need to manually run Apple Software Update, to update Apple Software Update, so it can get the latest Apple Software Update, so then you can update iTunes!
<daftykins> \o/
<diddledan> daftykins: iTunes on my insiders build is b0rked
<diddledan> it starts fine but about a minute after opening it crashes
<daftykins> oh no that's normal ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> not looking forward to being asked how to use this Dell :(
<daftykins> it's one of *those* types of clients :P
<knightwise> i HATE itunes
<daftykins> good man!
<daftykins> sometimes i run into it on folks' machines
<daftykins> i think Apple do it on purpose, it's either Quicktime or iTunes that actually overtook Java as the most exploited-when-unpatched program on Windows boxes
<diddledan> not many folk use java these days. it seems to only be used by android devs and anyone running an ide like eclipse or jetbrains thingies
<diddledan> there's nothing written in java that targets the consumer afaict these days
<daftykins> didn't openoffice install it typically? i keep finding it on some folks machines that really shouldn't need it and that seemed to be the only commonality
<diddledan> yeah, there's some bits of oo/libre office suites that use it but I don't think it's a hard dependency
<diddledan> at least not anymore
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2vzx2q4vo1s1563/IMG-20161209-WA0005.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> bikes
<diddledan> lots of bikes
<daftykins> my friend is doing a sorta charity thing with work where they manage and distribute a tonne o' bikes for school kids :>
<diddledan> aah
<SebthreeBQM10HD> f
<foobarry> my wife is watching the worst thing i've ever seen
<foobarry> hairspray live show itv2. truly vomitous
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, what's that? mght be what I am watching
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, yep bingo same here, but that's since I got a litle 15 year old brother, who well he's got the show host to play in Aprl ro so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, where I live about all it's good for or kind of is amature drama groups,  some rubbish pubs, schools and a lesiure centre
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and some places kind of ok to walk a dog
<daftykins> ouch!
<foobarry> i feel ill
<daftykins> so glad i don't have a significant other who likes crap on TV
<daftykins> my cat can't even operate the remote! 8D
<foobarry> its truly shocking
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, why's that?
<foobarry> it's my kryptonite
<foobarry> i cannot stand musicals
<foobarry> and this is the epitome of terrible tv
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, heh I been trying to get some girl to like me online, she likes stuff like that
 * brobostigon also gets to endure crap tv, ie soaps with his fiance, the things a man has to cope with for love. right?
<foobarry> i have such low tolerance for such drivel
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, you typical guy you h eh
<foobarry> except i don't like action cheese that she likes
<daftykins> foobarry: did you escape into another room or are you in front of it now the wifi is behaving? ;)
<foobarry> like avengers, star trek etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon,  h eh :)
<foobarry> i prefer stuff with a story
<zmoylan-pi> there's always dr. horribles sing along blog... :-)
<brobostigon> SebthreeBQM10HD: :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> foobarry, well where I live as I put above....
<daftykins> i truly think 3DTVs missed out on a trick there...
<daftykins> ignore the 3D part, but have the specs be capable of tuning into one of two 2D programs based on the shutters, then headphones for everyone - yay two programs for one TV \o/
<brobostigon> ST:VOY-vr'3d, :)
<brobostigon> the borg, in v3-3d, eeek
<brobostigon> vr*
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brobostigon, so which soaps you like :D ?
<brobostigon> none.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> what she make you watch then :D ?
<brobostigon> emmerdale, eastenders, doctors, coronation street.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and not a sap
<daftykins> that's my hell right there
<SebthreeBQM10HD> sap
<SebthreeBQM10HD> bu the x facter to?
<foobarry> found a nit in my hair
 * brobostigon agrees with daftykins wholeheartedly.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and  britains got talent, again not  soap, bu that to?
<zmoylan-pi> huzzah, dr. horribles sing along blog is on youtube... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of9kHpCv1ts
<foobarry> think i'm due a lifetime of checking for nits while my kids are in school
<daftykins> time to go nuclear on foobarry's scalp
<daftykins> you might be uninvited from the #ubuntu-uk Christmas party now though ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or napalm...
<zmoylan-pi> he can guide santas sled to a safe landing with a napalm head...
<foobarry> is it a virtual party?
<daftykins> so far, yep ;)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins is queen santa
<daftykins> m0nkey_: oh don't forget to avoid the intel radio chips in the iPhones, they perform slowly
<daftykins> alrighty i'm falling asleep already, g'night all \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-10
<m0nkey_> OK, now my apartment smells like a pine forest
<mappps> HI
<mappps> morning
<mappps> might start watching the lethal weapon series next
<SebthreeBQM10HD> j
<SuperMatt> k
<SebthreeBQM10HD> l
<SuperMatt> d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> c
<popey> Morning
<SuperMatt> good day
<popey> SuperMatt: remember helpouts.. how did the payment work? when the appointment was made or after the session finished?
<SuperMatt> crikey, I can't remember
<SuperMatt> I think it was afterwards
<popey> me either
<popey> what stopped people just walking away?
<SuperMatt> because they would get charged half price if they didn't turn up
<popey> oh!
<popey> so the payment processing was automated I guess
<popey> google wallet I think?
<SuperMatt> yeah
<brobosti1on> morning boys and girls.
<Azelphur> Does anyone else get choppy HTML5 video in Firefox? Bonus points if you know how to fix it
<foobarry> hardware acceleration on or off?
<Azelphur> on
<foobarry> tried turning it off?
<foobarry> :P
<Azelphur> nope
<foobarry> not fixed, or not tried?
<Azelphur> not tried
<foobarry> try it :D
<Azelphur> seems about the same
<Azelphur> gotta sneak out but I'll reply when I get back :)
<foobarry> about:support
<foobarry> and check the graphics section (webgl, hardware h264 decoding etc)
<diddledan> what gfx driver?
<diddledan> Azelphur: ^
#ubuntu-uk 2016-12-11
<mappps> hi akll
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<diddledan> m00
<brobostigon> meep
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<penguin42> anyone have an electric shower? Anything to watch out for?
<m0nkey_> Electricity?
<penguin42> well yes, that's something I don't like; but I'm having a problem of an unreliable gas boiler and I'd like a way of still having a shower when it goes
<m0nkey_> Used to have one back in England. They're fine if properly installed.
<m0nkey_> If you have low water pressure, then you might want to consider a 'power shower' which has a pump.
 * penguin42 waits for the 'but'
<m0nkey_> I always found the regular electric showers to be a little bit weedy in terms of water jet power
<penguin42> the water pressure is fine with the current gas boiler/shower cobmo that doesn't include a tank so is mains pressure
<m0nkey_> Should be fine then
<m0nkey_> My old house had low pressure, so the shower wasn't that great. Same for my parents, low pressure. Just makes it feel weedy.
<m0nkey_> Other than that, they're pretty cheap to run since you don't have the hot water heater going all the time.
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-04
<SuperMatt> good morning
<MooDoo> howdy all
<SuperMatt> yo
<MooDoo> how are you SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> fine thanks, had a lovely weekend
<MooDoo> excellent :)
<SuperMatt> yourself?
<MooDoo> yeah not too bad, just recently moved so clearing out boxes lol
<SuperMatt> I have no plans of moving for a vert long time
<SuperMatt> I've been living in my place for 2 years now, and it's the longest I've lived in a single place since moving out of my parent's home
<MooDoo> gone from a 2 bed to a 3 bed and it's a lot better for us all
<SuperMatt> I think if/when the wife and I have a kid, I'm going for the procedure to make sure I can't have another
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i did that in jan
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<SuperMatt> BLEEP BLOOP ENGAGE MAMMAL GREETING: Hello, world!\n
<ali1234> how does get-iplayer still work...?
<diddledan> magic!
<brobostigon> the gathering.
<diddledan> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48csz4
<m0nkey_> I think I'll fix the Apple root bug today and install Ubuntu on it :)  I'd go with FreeBSD, but the WiFi is not recognised.
<brobostigon> what about openbsd?
<m0nkey_> Wifi still not recognised
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> i bet it uses a closed fw blob then.
<m0nkey_> Yeah, some broadcom thing
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<brobostigon> http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/6.2/ bwi fw for boradcom wifi, install using fw_update
<brobostigon> broadcom*
<m0nkey_> Does the FW also cover the bluetooth?
<m0nkey_> Because I'm willing to give OpenBSD a go if things will work :)
<brobostigon> bluetooth more or less doesnt work in openbsd, never has properly.
<daftykins> tech best ignored :)
<zmoylan-pi> stick with irda :-)
<daftykins> ignore all wireless!
<zmoylan-pi> i send info between devices using qr codes... technically that's wireless... :-)
<daftykins> woohoo window guys have been for the last time, so it's just my painting left to do - and the day is wet so i can't do any on the outside, what a shame!
 * diddledan peeks-in through daftykins new windows
<diddledan> daftykins: use linux!
<daftykins> i'll need more than a kernel to paint these, sir
 * zmoylan-pi positions the orbital space laser and waits till daftykins gets amazon key so i can have big box of corn kernels delivered... :-)
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> it may not be original but it is a classic....
<Nokaji> I have a slighlty non-functional qbittorent  no SEARCH results), just noticed it is v3.3.1 which puts it Dec2015, latest is Dec2017 v4.0.2 - wondering how to fix and whether a more recent version, if available would help?
<daftykins> what are you expecting to search?
<Nokaji> I have green icon for ONLINE, d/l's torrents fine, have set it up in firewall and router
<Nokaji> it has a torrent searchh facility so should return a result for any available torrent ... just tried "beatles" as I recall that being a high return
<daftykins> sounds a bit too piracy related for here.
<Nokaji> I don't want beatles anything, just a functioning SEARCH
<Nokaji> torrents are perfectly legit
<daftykins> -_-
<Nokaji> torrent /= piracy
<daftykins> of course, but when you come in here saying you're searching for torrents of the Beatles, then it clearly is piracy
<Nokaji> I downloaded a sample debian at 1,000 thingies
<daftykins> at least have the nerve to admit what you're up to, you're not the first
<Nokaji> only if I d/l aforementioned torrent, which as I don't care for the beatles,am unlikely to do
<daftykins> not much need for search then :)
<Nokaji> I repeat, I'm doing nothing wrong
<Nokaji> if there were no need then I wouldn't be asking, would I?
<daftykins> users don't often apply logic to many actions, so you'd be surprised
<Nokaji> and nobody would build a search function
<daftykins> for example running outdated software and wondering if it should be current
<daftykins> totally moot, you could find torrents for Linux distros on the sites of origin
<Nokaji> obviously
<daftykins> now, are you going to stop protesting innocence and get on with it? :)
<Nokaji> no idea what you are talking about - you are the one being falsely accusatory
<diddledan> have you considered that your ISP might have the torrent search engine on it's blacklist?
<diddledan> try visiting the engine directly
<m0nkey_> VPNs people. VPNS!
<Nokaji> if you want to call ubuntu a piracy o/s then feel free cuz I got it form their repositries
<m0nkey_> And no, diddledan. Not V PeNiS.
<diddledan> wow, I hadn't even thought of that one!
<diddledan> impressive! :-p
<daftykins> Nokaji: you're being absolutely ridiculous, im saying you searched for copyright infringing material which you did, now you're getting all sensitive about it :) calm down now, it's getting boring - it's your actions, not the app or the distro
<m0nkey_> Call it a preemptive strike.
<Nokaji> diddledan: didn't cnsdier that, I rcall it malfunctioned some point when I upgraded ubuntu but I could check - if i figure out how
<daftykins> now, running current versions when online is wise, that much should be obvious
<daftykins> try and get back on track now :)
<diddledan> I pirated Ubuntu the other day
<Nokaji> daftykins: au contraire, you are being your usual ridiculos self which is why typically I ignore any response from you
<daftykins> diddledan: you fiend
<diddledan> INORITE
<daftykins> Nokaji: nothing ridiculous about it at all, just you got yourself sidetracked instead of focussing on the task at hand - you sir, are an utter idiot as usual
<diddledan> the problem is I misspent friend and so the dictionary told me I had to be evil
<diddledan> spelt*
<daftykins> normally it's teenagers coming on defending their pirating ways
<daftykins> diddledan: that's a bit typo
<Nokaji> daftykins: you are as clueless as usual
<daftykins> i know how to keep qbittorrent up to date :) that seems to be the order of the day
<Nokaji> daftykins: do me a favour and put me on ignore so i don't have to be bothered by your senseless and accusatory replies all the time
<daftykins> why don't you skip along to the support channel now
<diddledan> clueless is unlikely to be available on torrents, it was a bad movie
<daftykins> wow that must have been 80s? 90s?
<diddledan> 90s
<daftykins> Nokaji: works both ways my idiotic friend, if you have a problem with me, why don't you make use of ignore?
<daftykins> methinks you doth protest too much
<Nokaji> daftykins: you are easily the most miserable person in channel - I guess that is your own reward
 * diddledan ignores the pair of ya.
<diddledan> how can he be miserable, he has a pussy on his lap!
<diddledan> here kitty kittyt
<Nokaji> a cat no doubt - I'm not surprised
<daftykins> bit strange to assume someones mood
<Nokaji> daftykins: STFIU
 * diddledan cuddles kitty
<daftykins> now now, you're not very family friendly with such talk
<daftykins> what's the 'I' in that sentence?
<daftykins> new one on me (:
<Nokaji> consider yourself ignored
<Nokaji> argue with yourself - moron
<daftykins> so have you worked out which ubuntu version you're on yet? or are we still hung up on eyepatch wearing...
<diddledan> shut the front ingress upening
<diddledan> it's misspelt
<diddledan> should be STFIO
<diddledan> yarrr. but me eyepatch be mighty
<diddledan> until I put it on the wrong eye and think I'm blind
<diddledan> of course upening might be a northerner variant of an opening
<daftykins> if i could do an umlaut i'd suggest that variant, too
<zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
<diddledan> Ã¼?
<diddledan> that's r-alt + shift + [ followed by u
<diddledan> --shift
<diddledan> r-alt + [
<diddledan> on bumtoo
<Nokaji> .. I'd much rather find out stuff myself than talk to that idiot
<diddledan> I'll get my coat
<Nokaji> in faxct I'd rather not find out
<Nokaji> Ha! - Seems I'm well on the way to fixing it already
<Nokaji> lol
<daftykins> amazing what a search engine can do
<diddledan> popey: flexiondotorg: if either of you are about: https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/19
<zmoylan-pi> i know i always bing for information first :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you google with bing?!
<zmoylan-pi> no no, i yahoo with bing
<zmoylan-pi> i used to ask jeeves with alta vista but that was just crazy
<zleap> i remember altavista
<zleap> back in the 90's
<daftykins> :)
<zmoylan-pi> for me it was yahoo -> alltheweb -> google
<zmoylan-pi> currently on duckduckgp
<zmoylan-pi> *duckduckgo
<diddledan> ok. should I go with kvm or virtualbox? I really want the ability for the system to start VMs at bootup so I'm thinking kvm would be best?
<diddledan> I do wanna run Windows tho
<daftykins> as a guest?
<diddledan> yes
<daftykins> which machine is this?
<diddledan> my main desktop
<daftykins> oh yeah didn't you have an i7-6700 too?
<diddledan> yup
<diddledan> that one
<m0nkey_> diddledan: Both can do it
<m0nkey_> I think Vbox ships with a rc script to suspend/resume VMs
<m0nkey_> Or if you're using libvirtd, just set the VM to boot at start using virsh.
<m0nkey_> libvirtd supports both vbox and kvm
<diddledan> aah nice
<diddledan> I didn't know libvirt supported vbox
<m0nkey_> https://libvirt.org/drvvbox.html
<popey> diddledan: done, after flailing around in github
<diddledan> :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-05
<diddledan> under the banner of: "oh hello, Pot, meet Kettle..." https://www.androidcentral.com/google-announces-new-security-measures-apps-collecting-personal-data
<popey> No wai
<diddledan> I really should have food
<diddledan> it's got to silly oclock and I haven't eated yet
 * zmoylan-pi has a new christmas song to add to my yearly playlist... :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5nfznDwTdM
<diddledan> oh that's awesome
<zmoylan-pi> it's good, isn't it?
<zmoylan-pi> country and christmassy....
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<brobostigon> morning
<SuperMatt> BLEEP BLOOP ENGAGE MAMMAL GREETING: Hello, world!\n
<TwistedLucidity> I think we just found Maybot's alter ego
<SuperMatt> BLEEP BLOOP ENGAGE BREXIT NEGOTIATIONS: CRITICAL WARNING: Interal logical inconsistencies. KERNEL PANIC
<TwistedLucidity> Maybe "sudo dkms remove -m DUP" would help?
<SuperMatt> Still wouldn't help
<TwistedLucidity> Holy Moly
<TwistedLucidity> BASH can autocomplete ant? 8-o
<SuperMatt> what's ant?
<TwistedLucidity> Apache Ant. A way for scripting builds.
<SuperMatt> I see
<diddledan> is it difficult to type ant?
<diddledan> :-p
 * Laney remembers the red alert ant missions
<TwistedLucidity> Much lol. It seems to be autocompleting based on the targets in the build.xml. Which surprised me.
<Laney> look at /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/
<Laney> neat stuff
<TwistedLucidity> From the CLI, can I test if a mouse is connected?
<TwistedLucidity> (Integration in VBox keeps dying, trying to figure out why)
<TwistedLucidity> Strange...using xinput I can see that it know where the mouse is; it just can't see the clicks.
<diddledan> you know when tv or movies have a scene where there's someone stealthily approaching via commando-moves? how does the camera know where they are to film them when they're supposed to be stealthing
<diddledan> ??
<zmoylan-pi> they have ninja cameramen who follow people who think they are been stealthy... duh!! :-)
<daftykins> oof that was a tough one - https://imgur.com/a/nUI5l
<daftykins> just added a third, showing the ripped out plastic mount on the hinges
<zmoylan-pi> don't you love designs that assume you've done this a 1000 times previously
<daftykins> ooh yes
<zmoylan-pi> i used to have a bunch of ast low profile pcs that cut the bejezus out of your hands adding or removing parts internally. even cables... so many sharp edges
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> i remember AST, my dad got one of their laptops for his QS'ing department in the government way back when
<zmoylan-pi> in the 80s they were quite good, then by the 90s the beancounters took over and they got cheaper and cheaper build wise...
<daftykins> this thing needs an SSD and RAM upgrade now before it can be popped back into the hands of whence it came
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-06
<foobarry> scp and rsync stalls at 64GB through an 80GB file :|
<foobarry> consistently
<SuperMatt> what is your local filesystem?
<foobarry> i was copying to NFS, so i'm about to try local fs
<SuperMatt> you'll probably find that NFS can't handle files over 64G
<foobarry> maybe in the 90s
<SuperMatt> what's the filesystem behind the nfs?
<SuperMatt> nfsv3 only supports up to 64G
<foobarry> i have to extend my VG to fit it locally :(
<foobarry> orly? wow
<foobarry> that sucks
<SuperMatt> wait, I may have read something wrong
<SuperMatt> one sec
<SuperMatt> but also, find out what the underlying fs is
<foobarry> also i'm using nfs4
<foobarry>  /share/apps type nfs4
<SuperMatt> "Version 3 clients support larger files (up to 64 bit offsets). Maximum file size depends on the NFS server's local file systems"
<SuperMatt> so whatever the filesystem that nfs share is sharing is where the limit is likely to be
<foobarry> /dev/mapper/vol1-data on /exports/data type ext4 (rw,relatime,seclabel,data=ordered)
<foobarry> no probs there
<foobarry> could be a network issue too
<foobarry> gonna try local fs as soon as i grow it
<SuperMatt> maybe don't use nfs, ssh or rsync, instead try netcat
<SuperMatt> https://nakkaya.com/2009/04/15/using-netcat-for-file-transfers/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> split the file and reassemble on destination?
<foobarry> thats a workaround , not a solution :P
<zmoylan-pi> solutions are better but workarounds can be quicker
<foobarry> whole_genome_SNVs.tsv.gz                                                                                                                    80%   64GB   0.0KB/s - stalled -
<foobarry> yeah its network/router/fw related
<foobarry> local fs bad too
<diddledan> run away run away will william tell, shove a fork up his bum and he'll run like heck
 * zmoylan-pi takes the fermented banana sandwiches away from diddledan 
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-07
<brainrangers> Morning peepz
 * zmoylan-pi phones random person in belgium, says hello and hangs up...
<diddledan> ffs, travis-ci!! http://mailchi.mp/travis-ci/ubuntu-trusty-update-2017q4-and-new-ltslatest-process?e=342ffbc329
<diddledan> if you're going to "update" your images it's probably a good idea to not use the release that goes out of support in one year
 * zmoylan-pi hands diddledan a calming cup of dandelion tea...
<diddledan> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/jacob-rees-mogg-viewed-lithographs-of-victorian-ladies-ankles-20171204140269
<zmoylan-pi> was it the hairy hands that gave it away?
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-08
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> good morning mr brobostigon, good morning eeeverybody
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals...
<m0nkey_> I want this for my flight simming.. https://www.logitechg.com/en-ca/product/flight-sim-yoke-system
<zmoylan-pi> you'll be crap at typing on that... :-P
<daftykins> ah the new TV arrived at last, just put in my new receiver and am enjoying the fun of underspec HDMI cables :)
<daftykins> got my desktop PC connected and a game running at 4K on the go
<m0nkey_> heh, yeah. probably only get 3 WPM
<zmoylan-pi> give me a w! *pew* *pew* *pew*
<diddledan> on the plus side, those tai fighters don't stand a chance
<zmoylan-pi> pity you work for the empire...
<daftykins> OLED vs LCD https://i.imgur.com/1iSqR6X.jpg
<diddledan> the one om the left
<daftykins> is what :P
<diddledan> is better
<daftykins> yus!
<daftykins> amazing black level + no ugly backlight bleed
<diddledan> I'm guessing that's the oled?
<daftykins> yip, they're the same size but there's a crazy optical illusion from having the old Samsung closer, on the wooden unit
<diddledan> hah
<diddledan> I think the optical effect is heightened by the way they're slightly angled in opposing directions, too
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> the OLED is 5mm thick on the panel XD
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/C3k4ByA.jpg
<daftykins> cheese cutting++
<diddledan> wow, that's skinny
<diddledan> and here I was thinking LED backlighting made for thin panels
<foobarryz> trying to install retropie on ubuntu...seems to be compiling from scratch :(
<daftykins> o0
<foobarryz> probably a bit late to check if there's a package now
<daftykins> naaah :P
<foobarryz> seems to be a retroarch one
<diddledan> bitcoin regulation: http://www.techradar.com/news/uk-government-is-cracking-down-on-criminal-usage-of-bitcoin
<zmoylan-pi> it's interfering in trade in diamonds? :-P
<diddledan> apple's security patch emails are terrible. EVERYTHING takes the form of: "A <insert feature> issue was addressed with improved <insert feature> handling"
<diddledan> e.g. "Description: Multiple memory corruption issues were addressed through improved state management." and "Description: A memory corruption issue was addressed with improved memory handling."
<zmoylan-pi> well update notices are awful in general.  there's an update for file manager on my alcatel phone, makes no mention of adding adverts to the app that take up 1/3 of the screen...
<diddledan> "Description: A validation issue was addressed with improved input sanitization."
<foobarryz> the scrolling on this touchpad stops scrolling as soon as you let go. its a bit odd
<foobarryz> shouldn't it carry on when you swipe?
<zmoylan-pi> no
<foobarryz> on firefox
<foobarryz> pretty sure it doesn't feel right
<foobarryz> its very abrupt
<zmoylan-pi> and in other apps other than firefox?
<foobarryz> chromium and terminal too
<zmoylan-pi> so, os related more than firefox
<foobarryz> same issue. can't think of the words to tell google about it
<zmoylan-pi> distro, version?
<zmoylan-pi> scroll abruptness lag
<foobarryz> mate 17.10
<diddledan> "sudden catastrophic loss of linear motion"
<diddledan> that'll definitely find relevant pages
 * diddledan nods
<foobarryz> scrolling inertia libinput
<foobarryz> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1225643
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1225643 in libinput "Touchpad scolling does not have momentum anymore" [Medium,Closed: notabug]
<foobarryz> well that sucks
<foobarryz> its very hard work to get to the bottom of the page
<zmoylan-pi> isn't that why the end button was created?
<daftykins> got the tickboxes for smooth and autoscrolling on?
<diddledan> another "any user can get root" issue in macos: https://m4.rkw.io/blog/macos-high-sierra-10131-insecure-cron-system.html
<daftykins> nice
<zmoylan-pi> they're just trying to be (ab)user friendly
<diddledan> I'm friendly with my abuser, too
<diddledan> he's a cool guy except when he's flogging me
<daftykins> now get back to work :D
<zmoylan-pi> does he charge extra for that
<diddledan> he doesn't, no. he just likes to do it for fun
<zmoylan-pi> always nice to see people who like their job
<diddledan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/LMlcaeI2/578170_10151910725639262_1611158090_n.jpg
<L0ki> Hello All, quick question, was getting taught about the MV command today to rename files...the example given was one file named 'motorhead' which had a sentence specific to itself. Another file named 'ramones', again containing text specific to it. the teacher then used the MV command from motorhead to Ramones, thus changing the name (to only motorhead) but also over writing the text contained in Ramones to that contained in motorhead, I thought in this ca
<L0ki> the teacher thought I was wrong and that for renaming you would only use MV?
<daftykins> :|
<Seeker`> riiiiiiiiiiight
<daftykins> gotta love the insta-quitters
<diddledan> gotta love IRC clients that don't respect the IRCd's capabilities statement
<diddledan> i.e. "I thought in this ca".... huh?
<daftykins> mmm
<daftykins> think i only upgraded to an irssi that could handle and split that recently
<zmoylan-pi> dagnabit, this is irc and we're supposed to have sentences that cut out just when it comes to the interesting pa
<daftykins> rtridge in a pear tree
<daftykins> sorry, bit of crosstalk
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-09
<penguin42> dunking jaffa cakes in hot chocolate works pretty well
<zmoylan-pi> giving the pancreas a quick workout pre christmas day...
<penguin42> nod
<zmoylan-pi> tracksuit bottoms out now for elastic waist band stretching?
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I've got plenty of space; my diet is tuned to allow me to eat more chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> as soon as the geneticists make a chocolate turkey you're golden... :-)
<penguin42> you can have the turkey, I'll stick with the chocolate reindeer
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I want the chocolate balls!
<zmoylan-pi> chocolate salty balls?
<zmoylan-pi> wow, 20years old next year... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNYXgV7L-c
<diddledan> what?! 20????!
<daftykins> mmm i still remember watching it on Channel 4 in the early days ~1996/97
<diddledan> yup me tooh
<diddledan> and buying the movie
<zmoylan-pi> pffft, i remember watching carol vorderman on day 1... newb... :-P
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> i've been up in my eaves cupboard this evening, popping in yet more insulation
<diddledan> it's not bubblewrap
<daftykins> tough work crawling along to squeeze in there
<zmoylan-pi> oops.... https://www.geekwire.com/2017/reported-google-update-glitch-disconnects-student-chromebooks-schools-across-u-s/
<daftykins> heh yeah i linked that then a guy in another channel from Sweden had it at his workplace the next day
#ubuntu-uk 2017-12-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Nafallo> o/
