#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-17
<adamant1988> hello all
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<adamant1988> hey all.
<ThunderStruck> hi adamant1988
<adamant1988> Thunderstruck would you know anything about where to get a good preloaded linux computer?
<ThunderStruck> hybrid's server is going wacky so its been redirected
<ThunderStruck> adamant1988: nope
<ThunderStruck> i load my own ;)
<adamant1988> yeah, I'm going to need it built for me because I won't have the time to deal with all that
<klepas> moin
<adamant1988> hola amigo
<nixternal> blah
<adamant1988> I'm thinking about gettting a system76 pc
<nixternal> build your own
* nixternal checks system76
<nixternal> im a hardware dude..so i shall look at these systems you keep talking about
<nixternal> oh ya
<nixternal> i like the koala mini's they have
<adamant1988> I won't have time to screw with building my own, finding the parts and all that.
<nixternal> wow, they have great prices actually
<nixternal> i shall price a system on newegg to see if it is worth it though
<adamant1988> ok
<nixternal> oh ya, you can save big time still by building a better system for 1 via newegg.com
<adamant1988> how much are we talking?
<jbrouhard> <-- buys all parts via NewEgg if it's new
<jbrouhard> if it's old stuff
<jbrouhard> Hit ebay <GT>
<jbrouhard> <G> even
<nixternal> i upgraded processor to an am2 64 3200, 1gb ddr2 800, gf fx 7200 256 pci express 16, 250gb sata drive, dvd burner and cd/dvd drive
<nixternal> $600 for that system
<jbrouhard> Nice
<adamant1988> yeah, but is figuring out compatibility and such difficult at all?
<nixternal> i could actually get it for about $525, but some things were autonotify
<nixternal> not at all adamant1988, because i selected components that will work, and are better quality
<nixternal> our of all of that, the only thing to give you an issue would be the video card..thats it
<adamant1988> I mean, how difficult is it to make sure everything is going to play nicely
<nixternal> and it is msi
<adamant1988> and how can I make sure all my parts are linux friendly
<nixternal> you have to get it home and test it to see if it will play nicely
<nixternal> that is the great thing about linux, you can make it play nicely 
<nixternal> because i selected all linux friendly components
<adamant1988> lol how do you know if one is or not?
<nixternal> processor, mobo, ram, hard drive, cd/dvd drive, and burners you don't have to worry about
<nixternal> the vid card is a gf fx 7200 pci-e 16x.;..if there was a point of failure..that would be the first..and i know plenty of people using it
<nixternal> i guarantee that the equipment in the system76 setups are rather cheap
<nixternal> i would however, buy one of those mini systems from them...cuz they are pretty cool
<adamant1988> yeah, I'm just in a situation where I don't know if I want to order a bunch of parts and such.
<adamant1988> it's kind of more convenient to buy it prebuilt =\
<adamant1988> hrmmm...
<adamant1988> I think I'm going to play with Kubuntu for a while and see if I can get it to like me.
<adamant1988> My laptop needs a finished product on it...
<adamant1988> Oh by the way that reminds me I started my project locally
<adamant1988> I have given out 23 burned Ubuntu CDs today, 3 pressed from shipit, 26 total.
<adamant1988> My fiance is now waiting on an alternate install of Xubuntu because her pc's processor isn't quite fast enough for the live cd.
<adamant1988> hello all.
<adamant1988> gah, I'll be back in a few, I'm going to put dapper back on my laptop like it should be.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<jenda> good morning
<jenda> kintaro: ping?
<kintaro> hi jenda..
<kintaro> whats up..
<kintaro> :)
<MenZa> Morning jenda!
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> morning MenZa
<jenda> kintaro: would you happen to know what the Microsoft Eradication Society is?
<MenZa> rofl
<kintaro> hmmm....
<kintaro> i think so..
<kintaro> jenda..i heard that from my friends..
<jenda> Nevermind then :) I used to know a guy there who called himself kintaro.
<kintaro> ah..ops..hehehe..
<jenda> I thought it was too big a coincidence for someone else to have such a name :), but it seems I'm wrong. What does the name mean?
<jenda> (BTW Kintaro of MES hates Ubuntu, which made it even funnier...)
<kintaro> Jan
<kintaro> yo jenda?
<jenda> yes?
<kintaro> whats your real name jenda?
<jenda> Jan
<jenda> :-D
<kintaro> jan is my name
<kintaro> u?
<jenda> Jan
<kintaro> so we have the same name
<jenda> Same name,
<jenda> yep
<kintaro> nice to meet you jenda
<jenda> nice to meet you too.
<jenda> Good morning matthewrevell. How are things?
<matthewrevell> morning. Not bad, but ludicrously busy. You?
<jenda> Pretty similar, really.
<jenda> I'm leaving on sunday, three weeks of No-PC(tm)
<matthewrevell> Will be better after weekend. Got a major event to organise
<jenda> How will i cope?
<jenda> :)
<matthewrevell> You'll be okay :)
<matthewrevell> Get a sunt an
<matthewrevell> I mean, sun tan
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> gotcha
<jenda> There are quite a few new SU designs available.
<jenda> matthewrevell: you might want to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/GraphicalDesignSpec
<jenda> We also have a bzr branch, which is uploaded daily to http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/
<matthewrevell> jenda: Sorry dude, not at computer much today, will check it out later.
<matthewrevell> Hoping to be back to normal dedicated self after the weekend!
<jenda> matthewrevell: you can have SSH access there, if you wish, for your project.
<jenda> matthewrevell: I'll be gone after weekend, you gotta be back :)
<matthewrevell> :) Will be. I'll try to catch you online later today and have a look at the mock-ups etc
<jenda> Alright. I'll try to be online. I have lot's of downtown business today.
<MenZa> jenda: I just got another sticker request, I referred him to your e-mail.
<jenda> OK, great. Who was it?
<jenda> And thanks ;)
* jenda wonders why the printer inn't writing
<MenZa> jenda: er... some Canadian.
<MenZa> 'Andrew Hunter'
<jenda> OK
<MenZa> andy.hunter at rogers.com
<MenZa> ;p
<jenda> I'm still 1200 CZK in the red... hmm. but OTOH, I still have over 400 stickers left.
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> + yours... which throws me another 600 in the red ;)
<jenda> and another 300 stickers up.
<jenda> sounds like quite a good deal :)
<jenda> (what would I give for some foreign freak to buy my whole batch for the price set :) )
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!  sorry I have not been around to participate in the ubuntu magazine meetings.  hope things are going well!
<mindspin> anyone seen this ? http://www.worldfirefoxday.com/en/
<nixternal> heh, easy way to spam those you don't like i guess ;)
<mindspin> indeed
<klepas> mindspin: hey, quite cool
<mindspin>  but nixternals comment make me think wether this could be a dangerous idea
<adamant1988> hello all
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<nixternal> magazine meeting in 30 minutes right?
<adamant1988> no idea
<adamant1988> =\
<adamant1988> If it lasts as long as the last one I won't be able to stay
<nixternal> 30 minutes #ubuntu-meeting according to the schedule
<adamant1988> I'll come too then :P
<nixternal> heh, good job on meeting schedule
<nixternal> Our next meeting is this coming Monday the 17th at 19:30 UTC time.   <- email say that....and -meeting says now
<nixternal> Call to order: 17 July 20:00 UNC at #ubuntu-meeeting
<adamant1988> we're not very productive are we?
<nixternal> and that is the agenda
<nixternal> lord
<nixternal> so there are 3 different times for a meeting...we have to work better on this..as it looks very unprofessional and sloppy on our part
<adamant1988> yay for being in sync
<sara_> hello
<sara_> anyone here for the ubuntu magazine meeting, I think ther emight have being a confusion with the times
<adamant1988> we went in
<adamant1988> got bored
<adamant1988> and left
<sara_> yeah, I don't know how it got reposted to be 19:30 it was supposed to be 20:00
<sara_> I know that in the wiki it was posted as 20:00
<sara_> I hope that not many popel got confused bu the time and they all show up at 20:00 UTC :)
<adamant1988> I won't be able to stay for the meeting if it's at that time
<adamant1988> as I have to get ready for work and all that
<adamant1988> which isn't a big deal considering my limited involvement in the project.
<sara_> it ok, I just don't know if others were going by the 19:30 time and left already
<nixternal> sara_: no, as i was the only one with the 19:30 schedule ;)
<nixternal> so i think it is safe
<sara_> ok so we should be fine, I am sorry about the missunderstanding, but we will soon start, I'll make sure I double check that next time
<nixternal> ya, because i subscribe to the ical on the fridge, so my kontact info is automaticall updated
<nixternal> i read emails, i swear i do, and i seen the 20:00 one as well
<sara_> yeah it was probably my fault:)
<nixternal> heh, no worries sara, no matter whose fault it is, there aren't many of us here that are perfect, well of course except for me ;)
<sara_> ohh yeah you, I forgot that :)
<nixternal> hehe
<sara_> ok, anyone interested on joining the Ubuntu magazine meeting, please join #ubuntu-meeting
<j_baer> Sara, are you here?
<sara_> ok I am here
<nixternal> alrighty
<nixternal> heh, and john shows up..perfect timing ;)
<nixternal> john, it seems it is you, sara, and myself currently
<j_baer> It's been a day ...
<sara_> 1st order, Rich 9nixternal, has agreed to fix our wiki
<j_baer> What kinds of things are going to be fixed?
<nixternal> i will be coming up with a design for one
<nixternal> well..it is going to be cleaned up
<sara_> well, I tihnk that the whole organization right now there are bits and pieces all over the place
<j_baer> Ok by me, just ask if you need any help ...
<nixternal> made clearer, with correct design layout as proposed via guidelines..as well as creating the correct directory structure for subpages
<sara_> wait a sec
<nixternal> the /UbuntuMagazine page will be about the project itself..then there will be /UbuntuMagazine/Meetings for meetings of course and maybe /UbuntuMagazine/Content or whatever to fall underneath it
<nixternal> that way there, people who come to the page, don't see a table full of names and times available
<nixternal> sara, i am logging this, and i will convert it to a minutes format..that way there anyone that is fashionably late won't be totally left out ;)
<j_baer> I agree, the magazine project is big enough ...
<j_baer> Sara, do u want to see if everyone is here?
<sara_> ok, I'ma back my little cousin just fell and hur himself
<sara_> We alredy did the chakc and is only you, nixternal and me
<sara_> checked
<j_baer> Ok, I see 24 users on my list ...
<nixternal> 24 idleing users
<j_baer> Ok, let's move on ...
<j_baer> Sara do you want to run the agenda?
<sara_> yeah
<Burgwork> are you guys meeting?
<j_baer> yes
<Burgwork> then please go to #ubuntu-meeting
<sara_> ok,
<nixternal> KenSentMe: if you have beeping enabled and this woke you up...then GOOD!!!  hehe...mag meeting goin' on if you get around...
<KenSentMe> nixternal: i'm here now, but i see it's too late
<KenSentMe> sorry bout that
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> ya...i didn't see your name earlier..then i caught it halfway through the meeting
<nixternal> im going to work ont he minutes in a little bit, so you will see what all happened
<KenSentMe> ah, ok
<KenSentMe> the meeting was in this channel?
<nixternal> #ubuntu-meeting
<KenSentMe> ah, i see it was in #ubuntu-meeting
<KenSentMe> ok, going to bed now. i'll read the minutes next morning
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> nite
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-18
* jenda is back...
<jenda> nixternal, will there be meeting minutes or should I read the log?
<nixternal> there will be meeting minutes
<nixternal> after dinner ;)
<MenZa> Huzzah jenda
<jenda> Huzzah Mezzah
<jenda> *Menzzah
<MenZa> o_o
<nixternal> jenda: ping?
<nixternal> hiya Rinchen
<Rinchen> Howdy Nix
* Rinchen laughs at nix signing for sabdfl on the cds.
<nixternal> hehe
* bimberi would rather have a nixternal signed CD anyway!
<nixternal> hehe...thanks bimberi ;)
<nixternal> it will be worthless someday ;)
<nixternal> actually..as soon as i signed it
<bimberi> pffft
<Rinchen> Hey nix if you see Sara let her know the answer to ssh is in email...and my mail server is down :-)  Soon as it's back she'll get all the step by steps
<Rinchen> please and thanks
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> if i don't forget of course
<Rinchen> lol yeah I know..she's sending email but I don't see her on IM or irc
<Rinchen> ok, going to put the 2yo to bed and then frag folks in legacy ...cheers
<bimberi> gee, Launchpad generates a lot of email ;)
<nixternal> ya it does
<adamant1988> hello all
<adamant1988> hey nixternal
<nixternal> hiya adamant1988
<adamant1988> how's life, the kids, your growth, w/e?
<nixternal> well..power just came back on, so that is good
<nixternal> well actually..i just powered everything back up..storm was a little strong for my liking, so to be safe i shut down
<adamant1988> That happens
<adamant1988> I had to close down the store by myself at work.. I hate when people don't show up
<nixternal> it got really bad here though
<nixternal> thats fun stuff right there
<adamant1988> oh yeah it is... store closes at 10' I was out at 15 after 12
<nixternal> oh ya, forgot you are in WV
<adamant1988> yeah =\
<adamant1988> Still looking for a new pc... I know full well that I'm going to want it with linux preinstalled I'm thinking system76 still...
<nixternal> if you do, i would suggest getting an equipment/parts list if possible from them
<adamant1988> a lot of it I have to customize myself anyway
<adamant1988> the system I'm configureing starts stock at $399
<adamant1988> I just want an XGL compatible graphics card for the most part, I don't game much so it won't hurt me any
<klepas> moing
<Madpilot> hi klepas
<klepas> Sara Vasquez around?
<klepas> hi Madpilot
<klepas> or anyone from the magteam
<nixternal> sara is probably passed out
<nixternal> whats up klepas?
<klepas> i figured out i might as well get myself neck deep into this
<klepas> the mag that is
<nixternal> lol
<klepas> i did one of the mockup designs sara kinda liked
<klepas> happy to expand and such
<nixternal> well, if it continues the way it is, there just might be a very busy project in the future with it
<klepas> yea, that's what i am smelling ;)
<nixternal> sara is keeping me busy with the wiki
<klepas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine#head-56633895f56a3107d68d4d283b24b7d736e2f840 - this needs fixing
<klepas> the link that is
<nixternal> oh, that is all going to get fixed
<klepas> :)
<nixternal> im redoing everything for UbuntuMagazine as well as UbuntuMarketing..if only people would anser my emails ;)
<klepas> bbs--coffee break
<adamant1988> Personally I'm re-evaluating my opinion on how Ubuntu should be spread.
<adamant1988> I think the personal touch is what matters.
<adamant1988> I'm doing this strictly as an experiment, but I'm working with a local computer store and another store that is willing to donate floor space to make a 'linux center'.
<adamant1988> Currently the distro of choice is Ubuntu, but I'm giving SLED 10 a nice hard look.  We're looking at having Wireless internet access and allowing people to come in and use Ubuntu (maybe suse) computers and see what they think.
<Burgundavia> adamant1988: I would be very careful with the amount of choice you offer
<Burgundavia> whether you choose sled, ubuntu, or anything else, I would offer only one
<adamant1988> Well, I'm working on how to best sort that
<Burgundavia> choice will only confuse users
<adamant1988> I think I'm going to push SLED 10 as the more premium option if I choose to use it.
<Burgundavia> without a clear distinction between them
<Burgundavia> figure out what you need, and then look hard at each
<adamant1988> I think in this case the needs are met by both
<adamant1988> but I'm looking at Suse because users don't trust free things.
<Burgundavia> it is not free: they are buying a boxed set
<adamant1988> Suse is boxed, ubuntu isn't
<adamant1988> Suse <- Not free, comes with tech support, people will trust it =\
<Burgundavia> here is what I would do: purchase some pressed cd's from canonical
<Burgundavia> buy some dvd cases, make a dvd cover and voila, you have something to sell
<adamant1988> While I would love to do that, I have an ethical issue with making money from otherwise free software
<Burgundavia> use the money to buy computers for the needy or something
<Burgundavia> money is not unethical if used correctly
<adamant1988> Actually we're looking at picking up older computers and putting Xubuntu on them to give away for publicity
<Burgundavia> perfect
<Burgundavia> use the money for that
<adamant1988> free computer, free OS, free publicity
<Burgundavia> maybe hire a teacher and offer classes?
<adamant1988> I don't want to get too ahead of myself, a lot of the stuff that needs learned is basic and people will pick up on it quick.
<Burgundavia> yep
<adamant1988> first I need to decide if I want to push Ubuntu of SLED 10 as a premium system... I think people will be more drawn to SLED 10 though
<Burgundavia> why?
<Burgundavia> the box?
<adamant1988> the menu system is more intuitive, XGL integrated for all the eye candy that those end-users love so much, integrated search, etc.
<nixternal> i would setup debian sarge servers with encrypted file systems and then show them how fabulous pine and mutt are for email and show them the greatness of irssi and bitlbee for all their instant messaging needs!!!
<adamant1988> people are getting to the point where expecting the OS to have lot's of eye candy and such...
<adamant1988> vista and mac os x only enforce that =\
<Madpilot> nixternal, har har ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<Madpilot> that said, I do like pine, but it's hardly modern & shiny
<Burgundavia> no, people are not looking for eye candy
<Burgundavia> they are looking for things that work
<adamant1988> and XGL on Ubuntu isn't so stable I hear.
<jsgotangco> yes?
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
<Burgundavia> we are discussing selling ubuntu, and suse
<jsgotangco> oh goodie i got to join i thought my channel limit was up
<adamant1988> Burgundavia, they want things that work, and they want things that work EASY.  But they also don't want to be staring at a boring desktop all day.
<jsgotangco> im not really going to sell ubuntu based on XGL performance
<Burgundavia> adamant1988: boring is good for mom and dad and aunt and uncle
<jsgotangco> its a feature, not a benefit
<Burgundavia> boring means predictable
<adamant1988> it's a feature that's optional in SLED 10, you can turn it off or on however you see fit.
<jsgotangco> benefits have better returns than features
<Burgundavia> ah, ah button that you can turn off
<nixternal> XGL on anything isn't so stable
<Burgundavia> no, hence an issue
<Burgundavia> I have also heard really bad things about beagle
<nixternal> as i have too
<adamant1988> actually, I've heard it was running fine, (XGL) but the ubuntu community build is buggy
<nixternal> someone lied to you
<adamant1988> I don't know what bad things about beagle there are.. I haven't found them =\
<nixternal> as you can check suse's site and they will tell you how buggy it is
<jsgotangco> if you noticed xgl/compiz hype just fizzled out
<nixternal> yup
<jsgotangco> its not great news anymore
<nixternal> because it is actually pretty bad
<jsgotangco> hence its a feature that doesn't give any lasting benefit
<Burgundavia> the issues are with indexing, which only some people hit
<nixternal> i played with it..it is ok on Ubuntu, and a no go on Kubuntu
<nixternal> and the fact it leaks memory worse the US government on CIA operative
<adamant1988> i'll let darkmatter know he's a liar then :P
<nixternal> fine with me ;)
<adamant1988> meh just the translucent windows would be enough for me
<adamant1988> the jello windows doesn't do much for me
<jsgotangco> again, if you're targetting on marketing ubuntu, focus on benefits than features because how you sell it makes a difference, not just "me too" features
<jsgotangco> it won't differentiate you from the rest
<nixternal> i like the minimize windows to desktop feature though..like on macs
* jsgotangco goes back to work
<Burgundavia> shiny bling
* adamant1988 didn't see that.
<nixternal> heh
<adamant1988> I played with kororaa
<Burgundavia> again, people want technologies like toasters
<Burgundavia> things that just work
<adamant1988> I'm actually really suprised it worked as I though XGL hated ATI
<Burgundavia> toasters don't have bling
<nixternal> kororaa is about as garbage as one can get since the livecd is outdated
<jsgotangco> its only a good bling cd
<nixternal> FreedomToasters for all!!!
<adamant1988> perhaps there is another live cd xgl project?
* jsgotangco excuses himself
<adamant1988> either way, I'm still going to do research and testing before I select a distro
<Burgundavia> you might be saner to offer a distro that did mp3 and dvd playback out of the box
<Burgundavia> those are things people care about
<adamant1988> like SLED 10?
<bimberi> with placement in a store though, people are more likely to choose a toaster on looks
<adamant1988> SLED 10 does mp3, flash, java what have you, right out of the box
<adamant1988> ATI and Nvidia drivers
<adamant1988> so, in that respect, there is another +1 for sled 10
<adamant1988> The only thing I dislike about SLED 10 is it's designed for office use, not home use.
<Burgundavia> how so?
<adamant1988> Suse Linux ENTERPRISE desktop
<bimberi> mp3? office?
<adamant1988> yeah I know, go figure
<adamant1988> It's got everything a home user needs inside the office package
<nixternal> what makes it designed for office use, beside the stupid name?
<adamant1988> nothing.
<nixternal> it doesn't have anything 'office' that any other distro doesn't have
<adamant1988> It's a perfectly good home distro besides the name
<nixternal> i used SuSe since 96..and i only stopped 2 years ago..and i will not touch Novell stuff with a 10' poll
<adamant1988> I personally think Ubuntu would be better for the office... No flash, no mp3... no wasting time.
<nixternal> i was so in love with the freakin' lizard you couldn't get me to change
<Burgundavia> names mean nothing
<nixternal> i would have killed for it, the germans brained washed me
<Burgundavia> well, not much
<Burgundavia> personally, enterprise tells me nothing
<Burgundavia> now LTS does
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> and adamant1988, quit saying Ubuntu doesn't have support....ubuntu has support far longer then any other distro has
<nixternal> let me see you get 5 years of support from anyone other then microsoft
<bimberi> longer?
<bimberi> oh, into the future, kk
<nixternal> hehe
<adamant1988> when did I say that ubuntu lacked support?  I just said that Suse came with a year paid support...
<nixternal> ya, and ubuntu comes with free support
<adamant1988> from forums and such
<nixternal> #ubuntu #kubuntu #edubuntu #xubuntu as well as https://launchpad.net/    support in there as well
<nixternal> you can pay for support via a 3rd party if needed
<adamant1988> ok, you pick a person from my town and ask them if they know what IRC is
<nixternal> and it is far cheaper then any other type of support i have seen
<nixternal> well if they don't know what irc is, then they shouldn't have an excuse not to goto https://launchpad.net
<nixternal> or www.ubuntuforums.org
<nixternal> or www.kubuntuforums.net
<nixternal> or https://help.ubuntu.com
<adamant1988> hopefully they would find their way there.
<nixternal> i can keep going and going and going and going
* nixternal disconnects the energizers
<adamant1988> But I would have to instruct them on 'this is where you go for help'.
<adamant1988> if I preinstall ubuntu on a computer that's not a big deal
<adamant1988> I can make a desktop icon link to a file that says where to go
<nixternal> if they can goto 'System Menu>Help', then they can get there..if someone needs to be instructed on what that "Help" button is on the menu, then they need a typewriter
<adamant1988> haha, that would be my mother
<adamant1988> the one with 4 GB of ram and a Terabyte of hard drive space on her computer... ATI RADEON X850 pro...
<nixternal> well then, let her know office depot has a sale on brother typewriters right now
<Madpilot> there's the Windows "power users" (so called) who think they don't need to read the Help, because "They know how to use a d*mn computer!"
<nixternal> and you won't get viruses on a typewriter either
<adamant1988> that woman can't utilize the kind of power that computer has.
<nixternal> Madpilot: you are so so so correct that i love it ;)
<nixternal> muhahahha
<adamant1988> Lol, I never read help documentation when I used Windows..
<adamant1988> it was boring
<Madpilot> the sort who pitch up in #ubuntu, make a fuss, then leave in a snit...
<adamant1988> talking to people is much more interesting, I just dislike the human interaction
<nixternal> Windows PowerUser #1: Linux isn't as stable or as fast as Windows. I can setup Linux with ease, I mean how hard is it to run a stinking computer.
<adamant1988> I'm thinking I need to get someone involved in this project that likes people more than I do.
<nixternal> that is the typical line...now here is what happens when they come on irc
<nixternal> "How come my PCI Winmodem doesn't work?"
* nixternal notes that he better not use the Kubuntu Desktop Guide for support if he can't get online concering Winmodems ;)
<adamant1988> lol
<adamant1988> another issue is legality...
<adamant1988> This whole project will put me in a situation where I'm 'distributing' linux.  meaning if I start installing libdvdcss on people's computers, I'm setting myself up for a world of hurt.
<Burgundavia> you have no money
<adamant1988> neither Suse nor Ubuntu has a legal solution for DVD playback... in fact the only one I've seen that does is Linspire.
<Burgundavia> however, the store is a target
<adamant1988> so far the only thing I've found is PowerDVD for Linux.
<jbrouhard> i'vce heard of that
<adamant1988> but I'm not sure about how operational it is, etc.
<jbrouhard> that's one of Cyberlink's products
<jbrouhard> Don't see anything on the website about Linux
<jbrouhard> Wel
<jbrouhard> well, Google turns up a 2004 press release
<jbrouhard> but nothing on their website
<jbrouhard> Might be some kind of Volume Licensing thing
<adamant1988> well, it's still in Linspire's CNR so idk
<jbrouhard> Hmm
<jbrouhard> Check out how Linspire did theirs legally
<jbrouhard> I'm not really sure
<jbrouhard> i thought about offering linux as a home user solution
<jbrouhard> but to do so requries me to "break" a few laws
<jbrouhard> and i'm not really interested in doing so
<adamant1988> exactly
<adamant1988> which means that linspire is actually the only distro that includes all the codecs legally off the bat, etc.
<adamant1988> I actually like Linspire, and CNR makes life heavenly, but it's out dated.
<adamant1988> brb getting a sandwich
<bimberi> adamant1988: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLiveChatSupport coming to a System > Help > Live Chat Support menu near you :)
<Burgundavia> bimberi: is that going to be included by default?
<nixternal> it is supposed to be
<bimberi> Burgundavia: as i understand it yes
<Madpilot> cool
<nixternal> as i have been trying to draft something similar for Kubuntu working along side Riddell's Launchpad integration
<Madpilot> too bad Gaim sucks for IRC :|
<Burgundavia> the livechat support gets over the really bad part
<adamant1988> bimberi, that's awesome
<bimberi> cool innit? :)
<adamant1988> I'm actually thinking that Ubuntu Eft is going to make my life as a distributer a LOT easier
<adamant1988> I won't have to tell people where to get their codecs and such... the OS will offer to do that for them
<jbrouhard> adamant1988: One option i had in mind for distrubuting wholesale PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed
<klepas> adamant1988: just read up on what you're hoping to do - sounds great - remember to blog your experiences in short entries :)
<adamant1988> Yeah, just soooo many choices
<adamant1988> as a member of the Ubuntu marketing team I feel compelled to give Ubuntu the old college try, but my experience with SLED 10 has me thinking it may be the best option
<adamant1988> then the legal issues and what forth... can my 'company' and the business that's hosting my project become legally liable if I choose to spill the beans on enabling mp3 and DVD etc
<klepas> adamant1988: not really
<klepas> even if you provide them with EasyUbuntu
<adamant1988> I'm violating the DMCA am I not?
<klepas> they are the ones downloading and installing the codecs/whatever on their computers
<klepas> definitely not
<klepas> you're not providing circumvention
<adamant1988> So basically, I would provide easy ubuntu instead of libdvdcss
<klepas> it's the user and their actions
<klepas> yes
<klepas> easyubuntu is python program
<klepas> allows you to select whatever you want to install
<adamant1988> but documentation on libdvdcss is illegal yes?
<klepas> allows you to to select and install a list of restricted, proprietary and/or otherwise software not included by default yet popular and important. Included are such things as restricted multimedia codecs, libdvdcss, MIDI support, Flash, Java, Skype and OpenWengo, archiving support for RAR, ACE, 7-Zip, additional fonts (includes 'msttcorefonts') and nVidia/ATi proprietary binary drivers.
<nixternal> documentation no
<nixternal> that would be free speach
<klepas> adamant1988: some people printed tshirts with the C code that makes up the decoder: libdvdcss
<klepas> to prove the free speech point
<klepas> :P
* nixternal has the goofy t-shirt
<klepas> hey, cool
<mdke__> it might be illegal, depending on what you say
<klepas> i always wanted one of those
<mdke__> encouraging people to get around copyright protection is illegal in the US, and probably lots of other countries
<nixternal> i can tell you how to make a bomb, that is legal, but you better bet they are gonna get you one way or the other
<nixternal> the thing that was illegal was the "telling people how to use it, get it, install it"
<adamant1988> perhaps providing automatix would be better... it installs a lot of other, very legal, crap.
<nixternal> they aren't messing with people much since the RIAA lost the injunction or whatnot in the supreme court
<klepas> easyubuntu does too
<klepas> easyubuntu allows you to install rar support
<klepas> or flash support
<nixternal> just like directv suing me for $35k because i bought a programmer, looper and bootstrap setup for H cards years back
<klepas> and if you agree to the licenses, it's all legal
<adamant1988> yeah, well mp3 support and such isn't a problem in a distro like SLED, but In Ubuntu it's an issue.
<mdke__> not really
<adamant1988> DVDplaying support is my main worry, a lot of people in my community use their computer for multimedia like dvd all the time
<mdke__> all you need is to ensure that your multimedia programs can prompt to install mp3 support when a user tries to play one, and the problem goes away
<adamant1988> which is what is happening in Edgy Eft.
<mdke__> right
<klepas> huh?
<klepas> i don't get that...?
<adamant1988> exactly, it doesn't make it any more legal, but it does make it easy.
<klepas> what are they doing in edgy in regards to restricted formats?
<mdke__> klepas: you try to play an mp3, it says "mp3s dont work, would you like to install a package to make it work?", you say yes
<adamant1988> they're basically making it so that when you try to use a restricted format, you're told why it's restricted and the OS will offer to install it
<klepas> nice
<klepas> :)
<adamant1988> Yeah, it will be after october when this whole thing starts happening anyway
<mdke__> well, it's really a feature that any good os should have
<adamant1988> is it supposed to do that for DVD as well?
<mdke__> we just don't have it because linux distributions are thrown together in bits and pieces
<nixternal> g'nite
<klepas> fare well nixternal
<adamant1988> night man
<adamant1988> yeah, That's certainly very cool, I didn't think I could get around the draconian DMCA but I guess every law has it's loopholes
<mdke__> not really :)
<adamant1988> lol, what's that supposed to mean?
* klepas thinks some laws aren't worth upholding if they are wrong
<mdke__> adamant1988: laws don't tend to have loopholes
<adamant1988> klepas, if only the authorities agreed with you
<klepas> lawyers tend to make sure of that
<mdke__> it's not that, it's just that there are things which fill in the gaps
<adamant1988> so, then, why does the DMCA have that loophole to it? that's pretty glaringly obvious
<adamant1988> you would think if they were going to stamp on our civil rights they would just go all the way
<mdke__> where there are gaps, legal principles fill them in... otherwise the legal system would be in bits and pieces
<adamant1988> aha
<KenSentMe> Good morning people
<klepas> moin
<adamant1988> Yeah, well, I still have some time to make a decision
<adamant1988> I want to put a group together for it though, so decisions aren't just mine...
<adamant1988> I, myself, as a user find a lot of great strengths in both Ubuntu and SLED 10.  ubuntu is the single most welcoming operating system I have ever used, by far though.  You just feel at home using it.
<adamant1988> man, I'm tired.
<adamant1988> I'll start doing comparison charts for these two in the morning. :)
<adamant1988> good night all.
<jenda> nixternal: pong
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<jenda> green wave...
<jenda> Huzzah, MenZa
<MenZa> sups :)
<jenda> zenrox: ping?
<jenda> unping
<digitalmouse>  pong
<jenda> Hey there nickm1 ;)
<jenda> I'm just on my way out, really.
<nickm1> oh, hi :)
<nickm1> sorry, i was on another planet
<nickm1> how is everything?
<jenda> Hello zard1989, gaz00, klepas.
<gaz00> morning jenda!
<gaz00> what's new in the ubuntu-marketing world?
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> :)
<jenda> not much, really. I'm too busy this week to have time to advance on the ideas.
<jenda> I'd like to select a final SU designer on friday, at the meeting.
<jenda> and preferably have SU designed when i get back from vacation on the 12th
<gaz00> interesting...   is there a page where people have proposals for SU?
<adamant1988> nixternal,
<adamant1988> hey darkmatter_
<darkmatter_> ello
<adamant1988> i'm supposed to tell you that you're a liar, "XGL isn't anywhere near stable"
<adamant1988> lol
<adamant1988> we had a large discussion about xgl last night
<darkmatter_> lol... who said that
<darkmatter_> they were drunk
<darkmatter_> :P
<adamant1988> nixternal.
<adamant1988> hrmmm I just got my letter back from hp
<darkmatter_> ahh
<darkmatter_> waz it say
<adamant1988> Well, can I PM you and paste it?
<RichJ> GET OUT THERE AND START MARKETING!!!
* MenZa markets RichJ
<RichJ> heh, don't expect much
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-19
<RichJ> http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misc/tmp/edgy1.png
<RichJ> market the hottness there
<klepas_Zzz> moin
<adamant1988> hello all
<adamant1988> hello Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> hey adamant1988
<adamant1988> back
<nixternal> well hello there
<jbrouhard> heya nixternal
<nixternal> ok, i have an issue, well not an issue, but i thought about something i think is good..and since burg is around, i would enjoy his info as well
<nixternal> wiki pages for marketing, press team, and magazine
<nixternal> Ubuntu Marketing project i propose to be located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Marketing     and everything Marketing falls underneath it including https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Marketing
<nixternal> Ubuntu Magazine project I propose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Magazine and everything related subpages under that i.e., Magazine/SubPage
<nixternal> the same goes for press
<nixternal> Marketing is a project, and MarketingTeam is a team..do we want people going to the MarketingTeam wiki page, or a Marketing wiki page...team page for team stuff, and marketing page, for marketing stuff for the world
* nixternal shuts up now and waits for responses
<nixternal> hiya jbrouhard
<adamant1988> sounds good to me.
* adamant1988 is thinking about running XGL.. is scared...
<nixternal> arg, joing #i_love_novell already ;)
<nixternal> join too
<adamant1988> haha
<adamant1988> I don't mind novell
<nixternal> well, i have worked in novell environments since the very early 90's, and i can honestly say, 'i hate novell'
<adamant1988> haha ok :)
<nixternal> novell had to pick up linux, because they were tired of being an oxymoron 'secure windows'
<nixternal> they thought for the longest time that their communications were far more securer...heh, that is to funny
<nixternal> ya, secure in the fact that if you didn't have a client you was sklewed..ok this is off topic...im done and i apologize..
<adamant1988> lol.. all that from a mention of XGL
<nixternal> ya, novell makes my skin crawl
<adamant1988> well I just broke my computer
<adamant1988> this will be fun to fix =\
<adamant1988> hey all
<digitalmouse> greetings programs!
<darkmatter_> err... that's 'Mr' program... don't forget it :P
<digitalmouse> heh
<digitalmouse> capitol letters are overrated :-p
<digitalmouse> capital*
<darkmatter_> lol
<adamant1988> hello all
<KenSentMe> hi
<adamant1988> how's everyone today?
<KenSentMe> i'm fine. Just watch the Tour de France and saw an amazing match
<KenSentMe> /s/watch/watched
<adamant1988> oh yeah?
<adamant1988> cool
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1990777,00.asp havent read it, just got linked to it.
<Kamping_Kaiser> This latest Ubuntu release, which became available in June, has won our ardor with a tight focus on desktop usability; an extremely active, helpful and organized user community; and a software installation and management framework that's unsurpassed on any OS platform.
<Kamping_Kaiser> anyway, gnight
<nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/sets/72157594204855756/
<MenZa> http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/13/0,1425,sz=1&i=133737,00.jpg <- hehehehe
<nixternal> nice
<poningru_work> where's all the presentations and stuff?
<poningru_work> I looked on wiki
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<poningru_work> thanks
<nixternal> sure is quiet around here
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-20
<Rinchen> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1990777,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594
<nixternal> hiya Rinchen
<nixternal> you guys..be brutally honest on this..this is a draft i am working on for kubuntu and the aKademy book     http://www.buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/docs/aKademy_blurb.pdf
<Rinchen> Sounds like the basics of a flyer Nix
<Rinchen> You're trying to sell something with it
<nixternal> no..it is going in a book
<nixternal> it is an "about kubuntu"
<nixternal> so in a fact, everyone who gets this book for the aKademy will read it
<Rinchen> bingo. That's my point.
<Rinchen> It's written like a sales pitch rather than a history/intro
<Rinchen> at least it reads that way to me
<Rinchen> wording is good, writing is good
<nixternal_> arg
<nixternal_> wording wise and what not, does it flow good?  is it professional looking?
<Rinchen> content wise I like it
<Rinchen> perspective wise...well, doesn't seem to fit what I think should be in a book
<Rinchen> but don't take that as a rejection. I'm no expert in these matters.
<nixternal> this is just a spot for a "sponsorship ad'
<nixternal> it isn't a book you and i would buy to read
<nixternal> it is more of a program
<nixternal> sorry..book is a bad anaology
<nixternal> s/anaology/analogy
<Rinchen> nix...ah, well then...that changes things
<nixternal> hehe
<sara> hello
<Rinchen> Hi Sara
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:irc.freenode.net] : Welcome to #ubuntu-marketing. This is the IRC channel of the Ubuntu Marketing Team. | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam | Channel logs at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | Check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu
<nixternal> woohoo
<nixternal> that was fun
<Rinchen> Good thing I have my important channels on OFTC ;-)
<gaz00> Rinchen, ubuntu-colorado is an important channel?   what am i missing there? :p
<nixternal> heh Rinchen
* Rinchen laughs. "You caught that he? :-)"
<Rinchen> ch/he/eh/
<nixternal> hahaha
<gaz00> hehe... i just felt left out!!!
<nixternal> i was on OFTC earlier
<nixternal> i think that ubuntu will be over there b4 edgy is released
<Rinchen> I sympathize with Seveas but I have been very fond of OFTC as of late.
<nixternal> im willing to go as far and say, before knot 3 there will be a move
<nixternal> besides my random knock off's here at freenode, i have no problem what so ever
<nixternal> IRC is IRC no matter where it is iat
<nixternal> i have been using it since bbs died
<Rinchen> hey, BBS's aren't dead.
<nixternal> well..they have been replaced
<Rinchen> http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/
<nixternal> that is seriously scarry
<nixternal> but i am almost tempted to purchase it for humor
<Rinchen> I went to high school with the guy who created it. It's fantastic.
<Rinchen> it's also LONG
<Rinchen> you have to break open some champagne when you get through it....
<Rinchen> or smoke a cigarette....one of those two
<adamant1988> hey all
<adamant1988> hello all
<gaz00_work> hey - out of curiousity, who runs the ubuntu counter project?
<MenZa> gaz00_work: look at the footer of the site.
<gaz00_work> Ah, right.  didn't scroll down past the buttons..whoops
<gaz00_work> since they hit digg, 300 new machines have been registered (10mins)
<Bilange> nice to see the counter server is still alive :)
<Bilange> (even with digg, that is)
<nixternal> elkbuntu is who runs taht
<Kamping_Kaiser> Bilange, its gone downa few times (the backend)
<NoName> any way I can help with the ubuntu magazine?
<NoName> hello?
<gaz00_work> NoName,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine/TODO, I believe that Jenda will be back tues
<gaz00_work> i'm not associated with the team, so I don't really konw what's going on
<NoName> ok
<gaz00_work> I know that sarah was working on creating a new bzr branch earlier today
<gaz00_work> and the wiki mentions that she needs lots of help, so you might want to get in touch with her
<gaz00_work> find her here:  https://launchpad.net/people/sara-tikal26
<NoName> ok
<NoName> I can help with the logo, unless you want to use the normal ubuntu logo
<NoName> g2g
<adamant1988> hey all
<MenZa> NO! GO AWAY!
<Klaidas> wha?
<MenZa> :D
<Klaidas> :))
<adamant1988> don't tell me what to do
<adamant1988> hey guys want to help me with a little research?
<MenZa> What're you researching?
<sara> adamant did you read the e-mail by Chris Kenyon he has as similar idea to your testimonail, maybe you should contact him
<adamant1988> I'm researching a theory of mine.
<adamant1988> quick question, how many of your friends use Ubuntu?
<adamant1988> ...
<adamant1988> anyone home?
<adamant1988> sorry about that
<adamant1988> ok, how many of your friends did you get using Ubuntu?
<gaz00_work> you mean as their primary OS?
<adamant1988> uhm, sure let's go with that
<adamant1988> if I don't like those numbers then we'll go with the alternative
<gaz00_work> way to go with unbiased research...
<adamant1988> lol :P
<adamant1988> it was a joke
<adamant1988> yes I mean primary os
<gaz00_work> :p
<gaz00_work> only 1 for me
<adamant1988> out of how many would you say?
<gaz00_work> out of how many computer users?   Heh.. a lot.
<adamant1988> how many have you tried to get using it I mean
<gaz00_work> Ohhh....   I have only tried with those that are technically inclined  and don't work in niche markets -- so 1 / 5 or so.
<gaz00_work> the 1 that did switch works primarily in R, so it was easy to switch apparently
<adamant1988> hrmmm
<adamant1988> I'm trying to get some numbers together to work on a more effective advertising for Ubuntu.  I just don't think that any form of online advertising is going to do it.
<adamant1988> It occurs to me after trying to switch my fiance, friends and family.  The primary reason people don't want to switch is risk.   The RISK that they may lose some kind of functionality of their computer, etc.
<adamant1988> and an online advertising isn't going to make them feel less risk in the switch, but having someone they trust offer to help... that alleviates a lot of the risk...
<gaz00_work> true - that and switching seems to be a huge barrier for those that aren't really too techy and are used to windows.   the idea of learning how to check email again (even if it's just a different name) scares many non-computer geeks
<gaz00_work> Personally, I found that the best way to get people to consider it is to just let them use it.  I had 4 people staying at my place last week, all without computers and I made accounts for them to use my main ubuntu machine without telling them anything
<serenity> hi
<gaz00_work> They mucked around for a bit, and were totally at home within an hour or so.
<gaz00_work> most thought that it was a different version of windows and didn't even realize that it was linux
<gaz00_work> of course, that's not doing any admin work, just surfing the web, running a few apps, doing their resumes up, etc
<gaz00_work> serenity,  hi!
<serenity> i am giving cd's out, help them and spread the word...what can i do else?
<gaz00_work> serenity, there are tons of ways to help out.  Take a look through [ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate ] 
<serenity> wear a ubuntu-shirt all the time ;)
<adamant1988> serentity, take some time to actually talk to the people
<adamant1988> and if possible demo the live-cd to them
<adamant1988> I try to do that with my laptop
<serenity> on our lug, there was a linux-installation party and we installed kubuntu on the virgin machines
<adamant1988> I don't have a lug
<adamant1988> i'm actually trying to start one
<adamant1988> and I'm seeing if we can get floor space in a local store to start a 'linux center'.
<gaz00_work> adamant1988, where are you located?
<adamant1988> West Virginia
<adamant1988> yep....
<adamant1988> why gaz00_work
<gaz00_work> just curious if you were anywhere close to me :)
<adamant1988> LOL ok gaz00_work
<nixternal> hmm
<adamant1988> hmmmm
<adamant1988> empty roomage
<nixternal> Team, if you have a great idea that hasn't been documented yet, I would hold off on discussing it in this channel, or any other channel that is being logged. So if you are planning on leading a project, document it on the wiki or elsewhere first before you bring it here
<nixternal> Further information will be communicated upon confirmation and email communications have occurred
<adamant1988> I second that.
<adamant1988> ugh
<adamant1988> this situation is very upsetting...
<jenda> nixternal?
<jenda> nvm... sleep
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-21
<nixternal> bah jenda ;)
<nixternal> welcome back
<MenZa> sup jenda
<jenda> thanks :)
<jenda> just back for two days
<jenda> nixternal: was about to ask why the Ubuntu magazine ToDo is away from the MT ToDo wiki...
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> because the magazine is /UbuntuMagazine
<jenda> I'd like them to be in one, so that people looking for work would see the entire list on one page
<nixternal> so I put it under that
<jenda> Mistake number 1 :)
<jenda> I believe it should be moved under /MarketingTeam/
<nixternal> truthfully...i think the main directory should fall under /Marketing    and then have /MarketingTeam for team stuff, and UbuntuMagazine and what not...utilizing /Marketing as the main Project wiki page
<jenda> But it's just an opinion. However, it is a project of the MT, and all the others are...
<MenZa> jenda: when you transfer the money, include your address and I'll send them as soon as I can get around to it (prolly mon or tuesday)
<jenda> nixternal: you are the wiki manager :)
<nixternal> you know what im saying....have all marketing related stuff on a marketing page, and team related stuff on a team page...i don't know..im just brainfarting out loud ;)
<jenda> MenZa: OK, but it'll take me a long time to get the money. I only just ordered the stickers, and I'll be leaving for three weeks.
<MenZa> jenda: ouch :<
<MenZa> jenda: right, I'm gonna transfer them when I get the time, prolly next week
<MenZa> I trust you ;)
<jenda> nixternal: In that case, we should have /Marketing/* including /Spreadubuntu/ ; /UbuntuMagazine/ ; /Team/ ; /MediaRelations/
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> i like it
<nixternal> someone actually understood me ;)
<nixternal> i gotta get the UWN out by saturday, then im going on a "wiki" attack for us
<nixternal> depending on how long the UWN takes, which should truthfully only be a solid few hours of work..i will start hitting /Marketing hardcore
<jenda> Great :)
<nixternal> im gonna go fetch a pizza..i shall return in a little bit ;)
<jenda> MenZa: Thank you. I promise the first $25 on my paypal are yours.
<MenZa> ^^
<jenda> BTW, I'll be sending the stickers out before folk pay me too.
<jenda> folks)
* jenda has trouble typing :)
<jenda> Wow, my launchpad karma whooped up to 30k :)
<jenda> Anyway, I'll be off to bed.
<jenda> MenZa: BTW, I can't withdraw money from paypal here in the Czech Republic :) So it wasn't really worth it for me to add a bank account to my pp account, so I don't have any money on there till the stickers are paid for.
<MenZa> lol
<jenda> OK, good night.
<adamant1988> hello all
<Madpilot> so, what's with the whinging on the marketing ML about "you can't do that, it's my idea, and I own it, even though I haven't done anything about it!"
<mdke> ouch, i haven't seen that yet
<Burgundavia> mdke: check the thread with the case studies by our new canoncal man, chris
<Madpilot> the "Do You Ubuntu..." thread
<mdke> Chris is a good guy
<mdke> I'll read the thread from work
<Burgundavia> you met him>
<Burgundavia> ?
<mdke> yes, I met him last week
<mdke> nice guy
<Burgundavia> what is his position within canonical?
<mdke> I don't know the title of his job, but basically marketing, afaics
* mdke reads mailing list, boggles
<jenda> hello stefg, zard1989
<jenda> HEY!
<jenda> Marketing People!
<jenda> I'd like you all to have a look at the spreadubuntu designs on the wiki:
<ormiret> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/GraphicalDesignSpec
<jenda> exactly, was getting there :)
<jenda> my attention swayed... didn't think anyone was reading. Thanks 
<jenda> Anyway:
<jenda> At tomorrows meeting, i'd like to choose a designer for the final design
<ormiret> :)
<mdke> a single designer?
<jenda> Based on those previews...
<jenda> mdke: you don't think it's a good idea? I'd like someone to put it together - with or without help from others
<jenda> I won't be here for three weeks.
<ormiret> I think a team would be better since we've obviously got a load of people interested
<mdke> I don't know, I haven't really thought about it much. The team thinks it will be difficult to work in a group on that?
<jenda> Maybe not.
<jenda> But I won't be here to resolve any troubles that arise.
<jenda> If any do, that is.
<mdke> you don't feel that the team can resolve I think troubles should be resolved as a team anyway
<mdke> argh, that came out wrong
<mdke> "I think troubles should be resolved as a team anyway"
<jenda> I know what you mean - but I am quite sure that if I just throw it out in the air, it won't be done by the time I'm back.
<mdke> who is interested on working on it? everyone who submitted a design?
<mdke> and are we talking about a design, or implementation?
<jenda> So if there's a single person who pushes it and tries to have it done by that time so we can start writing content, it would be more effective, I think. BTW I totally failed at getting the wiki ready for others to work on. Not enough time.
<jenda> mdke: just graphical designs
<mdke> right
<jenda> s/plural/singular/
<mdke> good, because it seems to me that the structure of the website hasn't been totally worked out yet... there were a lot of overlaps in the flow chart thing with other ubuntu sites, like www.ubuntu.com
<mdke> what is the time frame for that to be discussed?
<jenda> till around mid-august, I'd imagine.
<jenda> As soon as I come back, I'll try to finalise the structure. Mind - I don't mind slight content-overlap. In quite a few cases, the content might be similar, but the form needs to be different for u.c and s.u.c
<mdke> well, personally I'd like to see integration with ubuntu.com rather than overlap, and I noted that a few people on the mailing list seem to agree
<ormiret> I agree with mdke here: SU is a big enough project without duplicating stuff that already exists.
<jenda> I agree too - whenever possible, links will lead to u.c (for example the screenshot section)
<ormiret> jenda: can you put a mail to the list reminding about the meeting (save me having to look up when it is)
<jenda> Sure, please do.
<ormiret> no, this idea was you do it :)
<ormiret> is there an agenda?
<ormiret> (I stoppped being so lazy and started writing the mail)
<jenda> ormiret: Aha :-D
<jenda> Sorry, I missed that.
<ormiret> :)
<ormiret> is there an agenda though? (I can't find one)
<jenda> lemme have a look
<jenda> ormiret: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
<jenda> THere's our agenda :-D
<ormiret> cheers
<jenda> mdke: if we decided to re-use u.c resources (such as screenshots and the FAQ), how would we be able to customize and improve these, as a part of marketing Ubuntu?
<mdke> jenda: filing bug reports...
<mdke> the faq is a total nightmare right now, it needs a serious rehaul
<jenda> OK
<jenda> Yes, it does. I recently filed a bug.
<mdke> I'd like to strip out documentation and move it to the help website, leaving the faq for "about ubuntu" type questions
<jenda> But I meant a more creative aproach, like adding content - bugs too?
<mdke> yeah sure. Include the content you think is suitable
<jenda> Yes, that makes sense.
<jenda> OK
<mdke> I'm hoping that the website can benefit a lot more from community ideas
<mdke> we just got a new webmaster, so things are already starting to move faster
<jenda> OK, mdke thanks for the ideas - implanted in my brain now :)
<mdke> jenda: np
* #ubuntu-marketing  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
<Klaidas> kewl address
<nixternal> hahah
<MenZa> Indeed.
<nixternal> wrong.domain.name
<nixternal> i like that
<Klaidas> hmm, wonder if could get mine to be i=admin@klaidas.tinkle.lt
<MenZa> Klaidas: talk to your isp :p
<Klaidas> hehe ;)
<Klaidas> I mean, wonder if could just sit here doing almost nothing and get that thing to work like i want :D
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<Klaidas> Maketing meeting today? o_O
<Klaidas> I thought they were arranged every 2 weeks
<nixternal> THAT IS HOW A MEETING SHOULD GO
<nixternal> great job everyone!!!!!
<nixternal> we had discussion, debate, some sarcasm...i love it
<bimberi> lol
<jenda> Hehe :)
<jenda> Yes, I'm happy... now to contact nestor.
<jenda> BTW, I'll quote a bit of an email that he sent me:
<jenda> "I am thinking in something more like a presentation, a bit different (and
<jenda> maybe a bit difficult to implement) but anyway, I think the Balloons Idea is
<jenda> a good one and I would like to share them with the team.
<jenda> "Which one is the best way to spread news?: mouth to mouth, indeed""
<jenda> bimberi: are you working on the minutes?
<bimberi> jenda: yes, shortly
<jenda> bimberi: this might be of help: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18539
<jenda> bimberi, nixternal do you guys have jabber IDs?
<jenda> nixternal, BTW, nice cloak :)
<nixternal> nixternal@gmail.com   &   nixternal@jabber.kubuntu.de
<bimberi> jenda: yep, bimberi@jabber.org - don't use it much tho
<jenda> thanks, will add you both. comes in handy at times.
<bimberi> what's the advantage - being able to see if someone is available?
<bimberi> jenda: thanks for the pastebin btw :)
<jenda> For one thing, but I can imagine a situation when I can't find you on freenode... because, for example, you are hiding on OFTC, and need to talk to you...
<jenda> no prob :)
<bimberi> lol (@ hiding)
<jenda> hello jbrouhard, poningru, SDPlissken
<jenda> poningru: Any news about media relations?
<SDPlissken> Hello Jenda
<jbrouhard> hello, jenda
<jenda> :)
<poningru> hey
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-22
<adamant1988> hello all
<jenda> hello adamant1988
<jenda> how are you?
<adamant1988> I'm cooled down a bit
<adamant1988> I see you have an OP inside Ubuntuforums?
<jenda> yes, I do
<jenda> :)
<adamant1988> nice.
<jenda> I'm forum staff now
<adamant1988> I haven't checked the mailing list, anything interesting?
<jenda> umm... there was a meeting :)
<adamant1988> I'm still a little cheesed about Mr.Kenyon using ideas that we created without consulting us, but I realize that canonical's resources are greater than mine.
<jenda> Wrong
<adamant1988> what happened in the meeting?
<jenda> You should realise you do not need to consult authors of ideas to be able to use them. Did you ask Linus or RMS to use their work?
<jenda> adamant1988: see ML
<adamant1988> yes, but the only honorable thing to do is give credit where it's due... everyone knows that linus made the kernel, everyone knows that ubuntu is made on debian and so forth.
<adamant1988> I'm done talking about it anyway
<jenda> Good, thanks.
<jenda> THe next time this happens (if there is one), please start by talking to the person in private - the worst you can do is start flaming the person in a public channel etc.
<adamant1988> I actually sent mr Kenyon a letter privately.  But I got myself all worked up and decided to comment on the mailing list =\
<jenda> ... and #ubuntuforums
<jenda> That's OK, adamant1988, but please be more considerate next time.
<adamant1988> Oh, I went there yes, but they were pretty clueless as to what was actually happening
<adamant1988> I didn't give any names and so forth
<adamant1988> Jenda, perhaps you would be the best one to talk to about the marketing approaches we're undertaking
<jenda> hm?
<adamant1988> I don't think that flashy web ads, and other 'online' methods of advertising are going to be as effective as one on one advertising
<adamant1988> I've been conducting an experiment locally to try to prove my theory, so far it seems accurate.
<adamant1988> Tell a person about Ubuntu, and they forget.  SHOW them however, and they'll get interested
<adamant1988> I think that working closer with and supporting the loco teams would be a very very very good idea.
<jenda> yp
<adamant1988> In all seriousness, I live amongst technophobes and I've been able to distribute a hefty amount of Ubuntu burned CDs by going to the local library and plugging in my laptop
<jenda> that's very cool
<jenda> hello Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi
<adamant1988> hey Madpilot
* jbrouhard is debating on trying drupal out for my website
<jbrouhard> and I'm wondering how hard it would be fore me to come up with my own design
<jenda> that reminds me, jbrouhard... any luck with SU?
* jenda remembers he already has a few designs from you :-D
<jenda> @lart jenda's memory
<adamant1988> do do do
<jbrouhard> jenda I'm not sure.. I have two designs, but have not had time to do a third one.
<jbrouhard> School, work, etc have been taking up my time
<jenda> No problem. Might want to check the mailing list.
* jbrouhard isn't on any of the mailing lists right now
<jenda> ah
<jenda> well, archives :)
<jenda> i just sent it.
<jbrouhard> Hmm
<jbrouhard> *realizes he doesn't have thunderbird installed.
<jbrouhard> BRB
<jbrouhard> jenda, Can you gimme a link to the mailing list ?
<jenda> sure, jsec
* jbrouhard will be spending the next hour or so sorting through all my documents and filing them a bit more
<adamant1988> ...
<jenda> jbrouhard: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/
<jenda> sorry for delay :(
<nixternal> jenda: do you have access to or anyone for that matter, to the default Ubuntu theme that is used at ubuntu.com?  i thought it was a Plone theme, however it looks very similar to a MoinMoin theme called Balanced2
<jenda> nixternal: I do not, but mdke probably does
<nixternal> he is next on my list..and jsgotangco...because he just did the Philippines ubuntu site...
<nixternal> no need for me to make Ubuntu Chicago any different I don't think
<adamant1988> hello everyone
<nixternal> hidey ho neighbor
<adamant1988> hey nixternal
<nixternal> im about to explode
<adamant1988> hey are you much good with wifi?
<nixternal> my blood is boiling right now
* nixternal is a wifi hax0r
<adamant1988> lol.
<nixternal> my 14 yo neighbor got me into haxorin' wifi
<nixternal> go figure
<adamant1988> I'm having the worst time getting my wifi to work on my laptop
<nixternal> the kid is an evil genius
<nixternal> let me guess....ndiswrapper?
<adamant1988> no, haven't tried that yet =\
<adamant1988> not sure what to do with it
<nixternal> i am only good with cards that can rfmon
<nixternal> what is the make and model?
<nixternal> #ubuntu-classroom
<adamant1988> Belkin uhm, let me find the box for it...
<nixternal> not in here
<adamant1988> hello all
<nixternal> bah
<adamant1988> I got it working nixternal
<adamant1988> I'm now wireless :)
<nixternal> what was the trick?
<adamant1988> firmware problem
<nixternal> i forget you are on ubuntu
* nixternal is listening to "Geek In The Pink" by Jason Mraz on Mr A-Z [Amarok] 
<adamant1988> that forum link worked perfectly
<nixternal> this is my theme song
<nixternal> ya, it has worked for me in the past even for kubuntu setups
<adamant1988> yeah, it was cool, that firmware was installed and the lights on my card lit up and started working
<adamant1988> anywho Burgundavia, Ubuntu is about people, community, no?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> without people, code is nothing
<adamant1988> that's my theory
<adamant1988> Ubuntu will not be spread best from flashy websites, online reviews, or any such thing.  Ubuntu will be spread by people.
<adamant1988> that's the theory. I'm trying to prove it.  I'm going to do two seperate 'ad campaigns' locally and see which has a better attention:conversion ratio
<Burgundavia> hmm, interesting
<nixternal> quit talking and start doing!!!!!!!!!!!!
<nixternal> ;)
<adamant1988> I am doing nixternal
<nixternal> hehe
<adamant1988> I have squared away 60 square feet of floor space for 'ubuntu space' in a local store.
<nixternal> must be nice...60 sq. ft. in chicago would be as much as 2 months rent
<adamant1988> This is WV, space is plentiful
<adamant1988> basically, I'm going to set up demo computers and a wifi hotspot
<adamant1988> lol
<jenda> adamant1988: ping
<adamant1988> yes Jenda?
<jenda> thanks for the mailing list reply.
<adamant1988> I'm sorry for it.  I'm bipolar w/ psychotic features (paranoia, hallucinations, etc.)... I hadn't had my meds in almost 48 hours... I'm still reeling from it it.
<jenda> It's no problem. I respect that you could publically apologize and set things right. Not everyone can do that.
<jenda> BTW, if you manage to set up what you described above in a local store, be sure to document every single step you make, take pictures and if possible, even films, interview the owner etc. It will all be priceless for SU
<adamant1988> I'll do my best
<adamant1988> I need to sleep
<adamant1988> gnight
<jenda> good night.
<nixternal> bah
<ormiret> bah?
<nixternal> that is the "im about to pass out" sound
<ormiret> :)
<nixternal> g'nite
<n3storm> hi everyone
<n3storm> I just finnished registering at forums and mailing list
<n3storm> jenda: are you around?
<jenda> yep
<jenda> n3storm: great that you came around :)
<n3storm> I am registering everywhere :D
<jenda> We had a meeting yesterday, and we basically agreed that we love your idea...
<n3storm> thanks!
<n3storm> I was reading now about the magazine and I find the wikipage a bit odd
<jenda> we would like you to refine it a bit more, if you could.
<n3storm> sure!
<jenda> Yes, the magazine wiki will have to be remade, too
<jenda> It's specced, and asigned to Rich Johnson
<n3storm> ok
<n3storm> is Rich in the channel now?
<jenda> yes - nixternal
<n3storm> hi nixternal
<jenda> n3storm: I'm very busy now :(
<n3storm> ok
<n3storm> see you later
<jenda> Do you think you could have a look at the mailing list at the post about SU?
<n3storm> once I pop up in the mailing-list we will keep on working
<n3storm> I am on it right now! :)
<n3storm> nixternal: if you need any help in reestructuring the page tell me
<n3storm> the magazine page
<jenda> n3storm: you've got mail
<jenda> MenZa: aloha
<MenZa> Heya
* MenZa yawns
<jenda> I would like to know the price of printing 1000 stickers at your printer...
<MenZa> jenda: I'll need your address btw, e-mail it?
<jenda> OK
<MenZa> menza@menza.or
<MenZa> +g
<MenZa> Yeah, my boss hasn't been around
<jenda> gotcha
<MenZa> 2x3cm right?
<n3storm> haven't received the mail yet, jenda, waiting....
<jenda> yes
<MenZa> jenda: those are big, but what do I know :>
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> n3storm: I sent it.. strange.
<jenda> I gotta run now, be back in a bit
<n3storm> ok, see you
<MenZa> jenda: cheers.
<MenZa> I thought it was spam first, due to your pgp and that shit.
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> MenZa: you should use enigmail, you don't see the pgp blocks then, you only see 'good untrusted signature from Jenda Vanura <jenda@ubuntu.com>'
<MenZa> <3 Windows Mail
<MenZa> ;)
<jenda> n3storm: got my email yet?
<jenda> If not, there seems to be a mistake in your reciever... but I gotta go no, this time for real.
<jenda> (as in, for longer than a few mins)
<MenZa> jenda: ugh, lack of utf-8 support
<MenZa> "Krkono?sk"
<MenZa> what letter can I substitute that thing for?
<MenZa> (e.g. I'm just gonna write 'Vancura')
<n3storm> byes
<jenda> MenZa: sorry, it's Krkonosska
<MenZa> Right
<jenda> hello shorty114
<MenZa> db
<jenda> Nighty night, Marketeers. I won't be around for three whole weeks.
<adamant1988> hello all.
<nixternal> no jenda for 3 weeks == PARTY TIME!!!
* adamant1988 breaks out the Kahlua 
<adamant1988> hey darkmatter_
<darkmatter_> hey
<darkmatter_> :)
<adamant1988> how's life?
<darkmatter_> heh... ok I guess.. I just woke up (3:37pm)
<darkmatter_> :|
<adamant1988> lol
<adamant1988> I had to work at 7
<adamant1988> I got off at about 3
<darkmatter_> weekends+work= totally sucks
<darkmatter_> I used to do that.. plus overtime (most nights) last time I had an actual job
<darkmatter_> how are you doing today?
<Bilange> working overnights on weekends sucks... cant party like the rest of the world :(
<darkmatter_> aye
<darkmatter_> but now I have the privilage of spending most of my time sitting in front of a 'puter...
<darkmatter_> :D
<adamant1988> I don't mind the lack of partying
<adamant1988> my need for actual human contact is pretty much limited to my fiance...
<adamant1988> but yeah
<adamant1988> weekend working sucks
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-07-23
<adamant1988> anyone awake in here?
<Burgundavia> adamant1988: nope
<adamant1988> hey burgundavia :)
<adamant1988> Burgundavia: what do you think of Ubuntu boxed sets for purchase?
<Burgundavia> they are already exist
<adamant1988> ok, In english.
<Burgundavia> large amount of cost for questionable return
<adamant1988> Understood risk.  I need something tactile to distribute with the shipit CDs
<Burgundavia> then get something printed, or point them at a book
<adamant1988> I'm trying to get ideas... is there a printed manual for Ubuntu that I could purchase a few copies of?
<adamant1988> My major goal is to make Localized Ubuntu converts feel as though they've made a 'big step' and done something important... people like to brag when they've done something they feel is an accomplishment
<adamant1988> having something to 'show off' while helping them out all at the same time is in my opinion the way to go with it.
<Burgundavia> there is the official ubuntu book
<adamant1988> does it act as a help manual as well?
<Burgundavia> it is a help manual
<adamant1988> oh, ok lol... I thought it was a bit 'more'
<adamant1988> that works. I'll have to see if I can dig up a fund to order 100 copies
<Burgundavia> it is that too
<adamant1988> also, I'm trying to work on a rewards incentive program for distributing the Ubuntu CDs to friends, but I'm running low on inspiration in that area
<adamant1988> I don't know what I should offer and all that.  I was thinking merchandise, but my goal is to keep this free or VERY cheap if possible... (The books would most likely be through donations).
<adamant1988> I'm working on establishing a 'center' that would have several donated computers of various speed, power, and type so people could demo Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> very interesting
<adamant1988> I want to use that to support a local LUG and make it the center of my localized marketing attempts
<adamant1988> and collection of research for the study
<adamant1988> I'm thinking that the center could do installation and maintainance in exchage maybe for a fee or for donations... that way the center could afford to get more books, etc.
<adamant1988> so anyway I'm done rambling
<euly> hi
<euly> bye
<adamant1988> hello all
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-16
<beuno> johnc4510: don't forget to add yourself in the credits in the bottom
<johnc4510> beuno: ok   will do  ty
* Hobbsee waves
<atoponce> boredandblogging: thx for the highlight in uwn
<atoponce> or whomever put it in there
<elkbuntu> well, he didnt take it out, so thank him for that ;)
<beuno> atoponce: I think it was johnc4510  :D
<atoponce> cool
* johnc4510 says good morning all
<jenda> hey tsmithe 
<tsmithe> howdy jenda; how's it going?
<jenda> great :)
<tsmithe> yay
<jenda> Just came back from outta town where I did some massif translating :)
<jenda> expect a barrage of attachments soon.
<tsmithe> yay
<tsmithe> expect some back :p
<jenda> I even managed to overwrite one section of 22000 chars :/
<tsmithe> jenda, come again?
<jenda> tsmithe: as in, accidentally delete.
<jenda> (File exists, are you sure you want to overwrite?)
<jenda> :D
<tsmithe> ahh lol
<tsmithe> silly child
* tsmithe away
<jenda> hehe
<tsmithe> mm je veux retourner en france ou belgique; j'adore cette langue!
<tsmithe> ok now that's out of my system, i really am away
* jenda prods beuno 
* jenda prods harder, repeatedly
<beuno> jenda: hey!
<beuno> how was the trip?
<jenda> yo
<jenda> Good :)
<jenda> I made about $500 in translations ;)
<jenda> Once I cash it in, that is.
<jenda> If I ever finish it, that is.
<jenda> I'm about halfway through now.
<jenda> beuno: I had a question about rsync
<jenda> beuno: I have my doubts about it's safety :)
<beuno> jenda: money is always good
<jenda> When rsyncing the huge email directory, I think there's a risk of overwriting data, because it always takes the newer version. The version on the flashdrive is 'modified' at the time of the last sync with either machine, and the one on the machine should be older if it is the machine the user hasn't been working on. If, however, he just opens thunderbird before syncing, it could touch the files, and cause them to overwrite those 
<jenda> (in fact, it seems to have happened)
<beuno> jenda: hmmm...   interesting...
<beuno> jenda: lemme research a little bit and get back to you with that
<beuno> jenda: that might be solved if the PCs can sync time with a time server
<jenda> really?
* jenda tries to make sense of that
<jenda> That shouldn't solve it.
<jenda> If rsync uses the 'last modified' date, then any, even the slightest change, in the files on the 'receiving' computer will cause data loss.
<jenda> whoa
<jenda> and now I noticed that thunderbird doesn't actually use any of the transferred data.
<jenda> I have no clue why :/
<jenda> erm, no prolly my bad.
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-17
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<Hobbsee> greetings
<jenda> ahoya, Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
* Hobbsee cheers at the tribe 3 page being worked on
<jenda> Welcome - is it me blind or did you not hang out here before? :)
<jenda> hehe
* jenda is innocent in that
<Hobbsee> i dont usually hang out here
* jenda has been innocent in most Ubuntu things lately :(
<Hobbsee> there's a new gnome, and new kde4 snapshot to mentoin, as well as a new snapshot of compiz
<jenda> sweet
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> not sure of what else
<Admiral_Chicago> Hobbsee: fyi, i am working on the xubuntu tribe 3 page so that should be ready for the release team as well.
<Hobbsee> Admiral_Chicago: great, thanks :)
<Admiral_Chicago> np
<jenda> We might have an Ubuntu book come out in the Czech Republic.
<jenda> It might have a CD with it...
<jenda> ...and I might be the author ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> might?
<Admiral_Chicago> should have the CD with it
<jenda> of course
<jenda> It should be localised, though.
<Admiral_Chicago> yea, that sounds really cool though
<jenda> Should be about 1500 pieces on the market. If its a success, they'll do more for the LTS.
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure if that good for a book release so i'll just say cool.
<beuno> hey Hobbsee, the tribe3 page is started, but I've been waiting for the follow up mail saying what's new to it  :D
<beuno> jenda: that sounds like a great idea!
<Hobbsee> beuno: i figured.  that also requires *me* knowing :P
<Hobbsee> [19:12]  <Hobbsee> there's a new gnome, and new kde4 snapshot to mentoin, as well as a new snapshot of compiz
<Hobbsee> [19:13]  <Hobbsee> not sure of what else
<beuno> Hobbsee: if I asked what the main differences between what was in tribe2 I'd be naive, right?
<Admiral_Chicago> you could read gutsy-upload ML and see whats new as well.
<jenda> beuno: wasn't my idea ;) but it should be ok. Whoever ends up writing it will even get paid for it.
<Admiral_Chicago> the changelog would be good,
<Admiral_Chicago> back when we put that in the UWN, we had a great idea to the developments of the release
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: you do realize quite how much work taht was?
* beuno remembers spending half the week seaching for changelogs and cries
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: yes, I helped out with the UWN back in the day
<Burgundavia> well start is up again!
<Admiral_Chicago> that is a possibility but imho, we would have to move back to the gobby thing, plus I really don't have the time to.
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm not one to just talk but if we had something like the latest commits being summarizes, it would help the tribe pages
<Burgundavia> absolutely, it did help
<Burgundavia> I find even myself are not as in tune
<beuno> Admiral_Chicago: if your willing to put *some* time into it, I'd be happy to find a middle point between torture and usefulness
<Admiral_Chicago> i found a ton of great packages that way, but its really about time constraints.
<beuno> maybe just on xubuntu side, and I'll try and hunt a gnome and kde freak too  :D
<Admiral_Chicago> beuno: its 4.30 am on my summer break and i'm up working...I really don't have the time to.  Perhaps we could take it to the people and we can recruit however
<Admiral_Chicago> yea I like KDE a lot as well, its what I use on my main machine
<Admiral_Chicago> but I'd be willing to help if we had at least 4 dedicated people for this.
<beuno> Admiral_Chicago: well, we can try and recruit people specifically for that, and see where that gets us  :D
<katkin> hi guys, just wondered if anyone is planning on going to LinuxWorld in Aug?
<Hobbsee> beuno: well...i pretty much answered them
<Hobbsee> beuno: UWN might have something
<beuno> Hobbsee: I'll see what I can do then.  When is this due?
<Hobbsee> beuno: should release on thursday
<beuno> Hobbsee: I'm not sure if I'll manage, I have a 12 hour flight tomorrow
<Hobbsee> someone hopefully will
* beuno looks at Burgundavia
<beuno> I wonder who...
<elkbuntu> katkin, unfortunately, im on the wrong side of the globe
<Bassetts> ping jenda 
<jenda> Bassetts: pong
<Bassetts> hey jenda have a good time?
<jenda> Certainly :)
<Bassetts> what was that site with all the artwork again?
<jenda> erm
<jenda> it was down, but is back up now.
<jenda> http://diy.devubuntu.com/repo/spreadubuntu
<Bassetts> ahh we got it back =)
<jenda> There are also two wikipages, and that is Artwork/Official and DIYMarketing
<jenda> Bassetts: it was only a missing symlink :)
<Bassetts> the wiki pages did not have much, only version dependant stuff
<Bassetts> I got the basic page going https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/Print
<Bassetts> jenda, there sure is a lot to work my way through here =)
<jenda> Bassetts: sweet :)
<Bassetts> some very high resolution posters
<jenda> Bassetts: I'm afraid all that stuff will have to be manually imported into the database once its ready. But having it ready like that will help a gazillion.
<jenda> definitely
<jenda> ready-to-print
<Bassetts> well I will do my best at getting it all on the wiki page
<Bassetts> although I suspect the page will be huge after/if I ever get through all this
<jenda> cool. Thanks for the participation :)
<jenda> I'm sure it'll make whoever it is that loads the database's job much easier (maybe one of my children... maybe one of theirs...)
<Bassetts> heh
<Bassetts> jenda, is everything in that repo GPL?
<Bassetts> Hanzos poster is excellent
<jenda> Bassetts: not everything, no, but most things are under free licences
<jenda> Bassetts: the poster is GPL
<jenda> (I insisted ;))
<jenda> it's dual-licenced now, under some CC, i think.
<MitchM> beuno, you around?
<jenda> hey, MitchM 
<MitchM> hey jenda 
<MitchM> :)
* johnc4510 greets jenda and MitchM who he has not met before :)
<jenda> hello johnc4510 :)
<jenda> welcome to the club
<johnc4510> jenda: hi and ty   i am new worker on UWN
<johnc4510> :)
<jenda> oh, great :)
<jenda> there's never enough of those ;)
<MitchM> love the new look of the diy site jenda :)
<MitchM> nice a clean
<MitchM> and*
<juliux> johnc4510, perhaps you can write something about the first german ubucon;) see http://the-space-station.com/blog/?p=14
<jenda> O_o
* jenda didn't see it yet, MitchM!
<jenda> :D
<MitchM> :)
* johnc4510 says hi to juliux and goes to look 
<jenda> MitchM: aha :D :D
<juliux> hi johnc4510 welcome on board;)
<MitchM> *chuckles*
<MitchM> got ya?
<juliux> johnc4510, i have no time to write something about it
<johnc4510> juliux: i don't see any problem with that, but being new i will have to run it by beuno   :-)
<juliux> johnc4510, np
<johnc4510> :)
* juliux is busy with work
<johnc4510> np
<johnc4510> juliux: ok i did a small write up on it in next issue, we'll have to see if beuno ok's it or not :)
<juliux> johnc4510, many thansk
<juliux> thanks
<johnc4510> juliux: don't forget to add it too the fridge calendar    we post the events as they come up too
<juliux> johnc4510, we will write something extra for the fridge
<johnc4510> ah a new dx00_
<johnc4510> juliux: ok
<johnc4510> juliux: is was talking about here: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event :) we post the weeks events from that
<juliux> johnc4510, ahh ok
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-19
<GatoLoko> hi
<GatoLoko> i was re reading past ubuntu weegly news and I've found something wrong in n42
<GatoLoko> at some point, talking about catalan team, thear is a text that sais: "The scope of the Catalan LoCo Team is mainly the Catalan Countries"
<GatoLoko> but Catalonia isn't a country, nor various countries, Catalonia is a region from Spain
<GatoLoko> they whant independence, but they aren't independent yet
<GatoLoko> puting it like it "country" may be taken as support for this political position, and as far as I know ubuntu is apolitical
<Burgundavia> GatoLoko: right, good catch
<GatoLoko> i'm not saing that i have something against catalonia, if they want independence they must do whatever they think they must to gain it, but while they aren't independet, there must be no reference from ubuntu to them as something independent
<Burgundavia> right, that was a mistake and I shoudl have caught it as well
<boredandblogging> GatoLoko: their wiki page says Catalan Countries
<GatoLoko> I know
<GatoLoko> and they call themselves that
<GatoLoko> but they are a spanish region
<boredandblogging> according to the wikipedia link, "Catalan Countries" refers to territories that speak Catalan. So, there should probably be quotes around Catalan Countries signifying that its not really countries. Thats probably my mistake.
<GatoLoko> whell, my be i'm taking the words literally, but may be that must be rephrased so there is no posible mistake
* johnc4510 greets all
<boredandblogging> GatoLoko: actually it says that Catalan countries refers to territories where Catalan is traditionally spoken. I think that is clear enough.
<boredandblogging> in the UWN
<boredandblogging> hi johnc4510
<johnc4510> boredandblogging: howdy
<johnc4510> :)
<boredandblogging> was there a marketing meeting last week?
<GatoLoko> boredandblogging there is much more conflict about this
<boredandblogging> GatoLoko: ok, I'll take the word "countries" out and rephrase it
<GatoLoko> i can't explaint it easily, but even between our people this is a hard topic to talk about
<johnc4510> boredandblogging: on the 12 th i think
<boredandblogging> johnc4510: thanks, I need to take a peek at the logs
<GatoLoko> some of the territorios caught under "territories where catalan is traditionally spoken" doesn't want to be part of catalonia
<GatoLoko> and some of them even want to be independent from spains AND catalonia
<GatoLoko> xD
<GatoLoko> but that's out of topic, the thing here is that ubuntu may want to be aware that there can be some conflict whith the way this is wrote now
<GatoLoko> and avoid it if that's posible
<boredandblogging> GatoLoko: I understand, I've made a slight change, take a look at it now
<GatoLoko> i think that this way can work, i hope nobody get mad about the change
<boredandblogging> GatoLoko: ok, thanks for pointing all this out
<boredandblogging> was the marketing meeting on the 12th in here? was it logged?
<Burgundavia> afaik, there was no meeting
<boredandblogging> Burgundavia: wasn't there a discussion on the list about a meeting?
<Burgundavia> yes
<johnc4510> boredandblogging: sorry that was t Community Marketing meeting
<Admiral_Chicago> release notes for kubuntu are in active developement...thats good news
<jfalconer> Hi everyone. I'm here just trying to get some input from the Ubuntu community. Recently I spoke to Vorian about a theme song for Ubuntu, and I'm currently working on demos. But in the spirit of open source (and creative commons that I license all my songs with), I would love to hear what the Ubuntu community wants to hear in a song.
<jfalconer> And of course, what variations from my usual style people would like to see
<jfalconer> My material (free, Creative Commons) is at http://www.midnighthaulkerton.com/alfadir
<BHSPitMonkey> oh no.
<BHSPitMonkey> Please.  Go no further.
<jfalconer> lol, why do you say that?
<BHSPitMonkey> Remember the GNU song?
<BHSPitMonkey> Do you want to be -that- guy?
<jfalconer> LOL
<jfalconer> I have heard it
<jfalconer> Once. I refused to ever again.
<BHSPitMonkey> Plus, when you say "theme song", I assume you mean some kind of song with words.  And, as some of us are aware, all songs with words are completely horrible.
<BHSPitMonkey> And cheesy.
<jfalconer> I'm thinking something more conceptual, than the GNU song. Using the concept of ubuntu.
<BHSPitMonkey> There's probably a reason MS hasn't tried this with Windows already.  Or Apple with Mac.
<jfalconer> Bill Gates licenses "Start Me Up" by the Rolling 
<jfalconer> Stones for $13m to promote Win 95.
<jfalconer> Unfortunately for the sane world... it was successful
<BHSPitMonkey> Okay, so license "Free Your Mind" or "Revolution" or something
<BHSPitMonkey> Please don't make an embarrassing theme song for Ubuntu.
<BHSPitMonkey> I'm not saying you're a bad musician... if John Lennon wrote a song for Ubuntu, it would be embarrassing.
<jfalconer> Hehe. Don't worry it wasn't my intention to do the embarrassing theme song route. Are you assuming 'theme song' as in the kind of song that uses direct references and talks about the subject?
<BHSPitMonkey> Will it have words?
<jfalconer> I know what you mean. That would be corny rubbish. I haven't heard "Free Your Mind" or "Revolution" but it sounds more along the lines of what I was going to do.
<jfalconer> If it does, not many. Not prominently either.
<BHSPitMonkey> Does it involve guitars?
<jfalconer> I was thinking synths on this one
* Hobbsee waves
<BHSPitMonkey> The one track I've gotten Songbird to play so far... sounds like Bob Dylan.
<jfalconer> Which one is that?
<BHSPitMonkey> OC
<jfalconer> Ah
<BHSPitMonkey> now it's showing the other ones, since I've clicked on the RSS.   You should really have mp3 links centralized somewhere.
<jfalconer> Seems like ten years ago when I wrote that
<jfalconer> There is a page that lists all songs, but I haven't gotten around to adding direct download links yet. It links through to the post for each tuneback
<jfalconer> http://www.midnighthaulkerton.com/alfadir/free-midnighthaulkerton-songs-for-download/
<BHSPitMonkey> mmhmm.
<BHSPitMonkey> is this you singing?
<jfalconer> Yeah
<BHSPitMonkey> what's with the Pearl Jam / Creed / etc. thing?
<jfalconer> Hehe, dunno, never really listened to them
<BHSPitMonkey> You do the same voice they rip off from each other
<jfalconer> In OC?
<BHSPitMonkey> well, politics is playing now
<jfalconer> Ah
<BHSPitMonkey> I just mean the "rrrrrrhhhh!" tonality
<jfalconer> ah, the gravelly tone
<BHSPitMonkey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJHhUc2mSw
<jfalconer> LOL
<jfalconer> mind you all the songs on that site are tunebacks. the aim of a tuneback is to write, record and publish a song in under an hour. if we're not done we wrap up and publish what we got. sometimes we have better hours, sometimes we don't :D
<johnc4510> hee hee yes   in next UWN  on the freenode security   but it should get some interested in irssi
<pleia2> hey
<pleia2> on the 14th of this month myself and a teammate from the us-pa LoCo team were on a local AM radio station computer show
<pleia2> we talked about ubuntu and there is now a podcast of the program available
<pleia2> 1) is this UWN-worthy? 2) If so, is it possible to get some hosting for this 23M podcast? We currently don't have the resources (and neither does the radio station we appeared on), I haven't even posted it on my blog on planet because of this
* jenda pokes beuno and boredandblogging 
* Hobbsee pokes jenda 
<jenda> yeauch
<jenda> :)
<boredandblogging> jalrnc: hello
<jenda> boredandblogging: I poked because of pleia2 
<jalrnc> boredandblogging: hey
<jenda> boredandblogging: since you're one'v'um UWN guys :)
<boredandblogging> jenda: what about pleia2?
<pleia2> boredandblogging: I was asking if a recent podcast was UWN-worthy
<pleia2> podcast of AM radio show
<boredandblogging> ahh, yes, we'll put in the loco news section
<pleia2> is it possible I could find hosting for this file?
<pleia2> our loco team is approved but we haven't looked into getting webspace yet (we have our own sponsored by a local company at the moment, but it's not good enough to handle much bandwidth)
<boredandblogging> pleia2: how big is the file?
<pleia2> boredandblogging: 23M
<boredandblogging> pleia2: I'm not sure where you could host that
<pleia2> ah, bummer :\
<boredandblogging> pleia2: I've got a dreamhost account that I could post it on
<pleia2> boredandblogging: that would be great :) I'll email you a link to the file (privately hosted by me at the moment) and details of the show
<jenda> pleia2: try asking some of the neigbouring locos for hosting-help
<boredandblogging> pleia2: jenda's idea is good too
<pleia2> yeah
<boredandblogging> pleia2: if you can't find anyone else, I'll do it for you
<pleia2> if all else fails I could just put it on the ubuntu-women site I suppose (that's canonical hosting)
<pleia2> maybe I should just do that
<boredandblogging> pleia2: probably
<elkbuntu> pleia2, gimme url and i'll suck it onto my dreamhost
<pleia2> elkbuntu: k, thanks :)
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-20
<johnc4510> beuno: greetings :)
<beuno> hey johnc4510!
<johnc4510> how's it going
<beuno> good good, back home after a month and a half of travelling
<beuno> so pretty happy  :D
<johnc4510> beuno: after that long i would be toooooo!
<johnc4510> your own bed is a wonderful thing
<beuno> absolutely, best night ever yesterday!
<johnc4510> hee hee
<johnc4510> :)
<beuno> johnc4510: how are you getting along with UWN?  I see you're putting a lot of great work into it
<johnc4510> beuno: thanks, hope i'm not over reaching     but no problems 
<boredandblogging> johnc4510: awesome work on the UWN
<johnc4510> boredandblogging: ty  and howdy
<beuno> johnc4510: that's the good thing about wikis, you can never over reach  :D
<johnc4510> :)
<johnc4510> beuno: ok great i'll just keep on truckin then
<beuno> gf here
<beuno> ba bye  :D
<johnc4510> see ya
<johnc4510> boredandblogging: was it you talking with the guy yesterday about the country problem? whether is was or not
<boredandblogging> johnc4510: about catalan? yeah
<johnc4510> can you tell me how this all works   are some uwm translated and some completely separate papers
<boredandblogging> the ones that are translated put their links directly on the UWN, but I believe there is an European or South American LoCo does there own thing, but don't quote me on that
<johnc4510> ok, i just wondered because what he was talking about wasn't in our edition   it confused me a little
<johnc4510> :)
<johnc4510> that happens with me some though
<johnc4510> hee hee
<boredandblogging> the reference to the catalan countries? yes it was
<johnc4510> ok, thanks for the info :)
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<johnc4510> howdy
<Burgundavia> hello johnc4510
<Burgundavia> rocking work on the UWN btw
<johnc4510> Burgundavia: thanks
<flickerfly> A LUG guy said you guys might be interested in the weakness of Linux solutions in the NGO "market". Non-profits just don't get much attention, particularly small ones who could benefit hugely from the provision of good software tools. The greatest weakness is constituent relationship management (CRM), but just a decent fund-accounting software would be a good start. You can't even buy stuff for this
<Burgundavia> flickerfly: there is actually the NGO in a box, done by the tactical tech people in Amsterdam
<Burgundavia> it is based on Ubuntu, afaicr
<flickerfly> do you have a link to that, it doesn't sound familiar
<Flannel> http://tacticaltech.org/
<Burgundavia> I am, in fact, wearing on their tshirts right now
<Flannel> or, I guess http://ngoinabox.org/
<flickerfly> thanks, I'll have to check that out
<Burgundavia> the tactical tech people are cool people, actually
<flickerfly> What they are recommending for NGOs to use for finances is GnuCash. While GnuCash is a fine personal accounting software, it doesn't have the features to address fund accounting like an NGO wants to do
<flickerfly> I do like what they're trying to do.
<flickerfly> I'll have to see if I can find a feed on them to get more familiar with their tech
<flickerfly> I should re-visit CiviCRM.
<flickerfly> That might be improved in the last few years and may fit.
<Burgundavia> it is likely that money can be found to improve software for NGO use
<flickerfly> cool, then all that needs to happen is find someone with the time. That's another thing lacking at NGOs. :-) Thanks for listening guys. I'm off.
<IDF_Mike> me and some guys in the FL team were looking into making an ubuntu page and I just wanted to run it by you guys and see what you think
<IDF_Mike> It's main purpose would basically an exhaustive list of links for useful ubuntu related sites
<IDF_Mike> with a rating system and a place for users to submit links
<IDF_Mike> I don't wanna keep rattling on here, but I just wanted to make sure something like this wasn't in the works and see if anyone thought it would be beneficial
<IDF_Mike> we feel like sites are starting to spread out and that it's getting harder to find what you are looking for and a good index would help
<IDF_Mike> any comments or suggestions, send them this way thanks, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3051979#post3051979
<Burgundavia> loserboy: a list of links?
<loserboy> well... yea  but a massive list
<Burgundavia> massive lists have a serious problem; they are massive
<Burgundavia> every study of humans and picking shows that beyond 7 items, we loose the ability to quickly parse
<loserboy> lol well we are going put stress on having it well organized and indexed
<loserboy> but I know what you mean
<Burgundavia> I personally think it would be a better project to clean up a few good resources
<loserboy> also rating systems, brief comments
<Burgundavia> such as finishing and publishing the DIY stie
<Burgundavia> or fixing some pages on teh Ubuntu Help wiki
<loserboy> that's what I thought at first too, but it seems like such a huge project, and not everyone is going to cooperate
<Burgundavia> you don';t need a lot of cooperation
<Burgundavia> you need bit sized chunks
<loserboy> alot of the wiki hasn't been updated since hoary
<Burgundavia> {{sofixit}}
<Burgundavia> and actually, lots has
<loserboy> well, I spent a long time on the hardware compatibility
<Burgundavia> the challenge is building a community around a resource, not producing another resource
<Burgundavia> http://loll.sourceforge.net/
<Burgundavia> that is a project similar to what you are envisioing
<Burgundavia> it doesn't work. I know because a couple of people from my LUG run it
<loserboy> I'll take a look in just a sec here
<loserboy> it is similar to what we have in mind, is it still updated?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> it died because it really isn't a useful resource
<Burgundavia> not in the Google area
<Burgundavia> what drivers users to sites is content, lots of good content
<Burgundavia> one place that need more cool content is the Fridge
<Burgundavia> and the UWN
<Burgundavia> one idea might be a "cool Ubuntu device of the day" post, about somebody running Ubuntu on something cool
<loserboy> yea I see what you're saying
<Burgundavia> there are no end of existing projects that badly need people to write cool things for them
<loserboy> I just see so many people in the forums that can't find what they are looking for through search functions in the forum or from google
<loserboy> and I admit many times it's their fault
<Burgundavia> then choose a resouce and improve that
<Burgundavia> if you have good content, it will float its way up the list in google
<loserboy> well, I'm glad I talked to you and I'll run everything you said by the guys
<loserboy> I gotta say I still think we could make it work
<loserboy> working on the wiki was actually my first thought before this idea, it's depressing just to think about it
<loserboy> (working on the wiki that is)
<Burgundavia> the wiki is a large resource with lots of disorder
<loserboy> do you know of anyone that has a game plan for reorganizing it
<Burgundavia> not really
<loserboy> so you really feel like it's a waste to have a links site?
<Burgundavia> a few carefully selected links, maybe as part of a story on a existing resource
<Burgundavia> link maybe a story on the Fridge, with a few links abougt a specific story
<Burgundavia> then you get a few high quality links
<loserboy> sort of a news style
<loserboy> or highlights
<Burgundavia> basically, yes
<Burgundavia> when something like Ubuntu Mobile is announced, a short news roundup
<loserboy> is that any real use to anyone, I've seen sites that cover this already
<Burgundavia> yes, it is
<loserboy> are you part of the marketing team, i'm only asking so I can say where I got the feedback from
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> teh marketing team is anybody who wants to market
<loserboy> lol oh ok, is there no official status?
<Burgundavia> there is, but people tend to see the "Marketing Team" as this entity
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-21
* RoAkSoAx leaving
<johnc4510> hello marketing
<jenda> hello johnc4510 
<johnc4510> jenda: :)
<jenda> yo, beuno 
<beuno> mornin jenda!
<beuno> I'm back home  :D
<jenda> cool :)
<jenda> beuno: what's home? :D
<johnc4510> beuno: hi :)
<beuno> jenda: where my dog is  :p
<beuno> hey johnc4510!
<johnc4510> :)
<beuno> jenda: how's the book thing going?
<jenda> beuno: aaaah :)
<jenda> beuno: terrible :D
<jenda> beuno: I'm about half done, but I couldn't make myself work this week almost at all. It's the heat.
<jenda> :)
<beuno> jenda: you know what cools you down?
* beuno thinks to himself, "he knows"
<jenda> haha
<jenda> yes, but it doesn't make translating easier :D
<beuno> right, I guess you can't have everything in life...
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> beuno: OTOH, once I'm done with the translation, I'll be able to afford about 2777 beers in my favorite pub :)
<beuno> jenda: hahahaha, why am I not surprised you're measuring in beers?
<jenda> half that if I buy a laptop.
<jenda> beuno: :D
<beuno> jenda: how was the hiking(?) trip?
<jenda> There was none just yet :)
<jenda> I did go to my friend's country place... to translate :)
<jenda> I made about 300 beers there ;)
<beuno> jenda: hahaha, good idea
<jenda> funny - that's about a year's supply, keeping average.
<beuno> jenda: not your year, but yeah  :D
<jenda> I actually stick quite close to average :)
<jenda> But I might be wrong, because I don't like counting things.
<jenda> <sototallyOT> Has jono given word yet? </sototallyOT>
<beuno> jenda: you would have to stop drinking for 2 weeks after each time you drink, which seems unlikely to me  ;)
<jenda> hahaha
<beuno> <nottooOT>absolutely none, maybe some of your magic is in order</nottooOT>
<jenda> actually, I have only been to a pub once or twice since you left (and no parties)
<beuno> jenda: been drinking at home?
<jenda> <it'snotaboutbeerandisthereforealwaysOT> Hmm, I'll see what I can do... </it'snotaboutbeerandisthereforealwaysOT>
<jenda> beuno: no
* beuno thinks that's enough for everyone to have an idea of jenda's drinking habits
<jenda> :D
<elkbuntu> he's czech. we know his drinking habits purely from this fact
* elkbuntu ducks
* beuno giggles
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> elkbuntu: beuno knows that to be more than true, I showed him some very fine Czech specimens.
<jenda> beuno: and one decent slovakian specimen with a Plum Vodka :D
<beuno> haahaha
<beuno> yes, I was drinking in less then 1 hour after getting out of the plane
<elkbuntu> heh
<beuno> it's pretty fast if you consider we took public transport
<johnc4510> ever tried aquavit
<jenda> beuno: :)
<jenda> beuno: that wasn't drinking, that was just beer :)
<beuno> jenda: just looking at that plum vodka was drinking
<jenda> beuno: and throwing the bottle down the balcony was a sign of being really drunk. Halucinations :)
<BHSPitMonkey> being a regular attendee of Westfest gives a person a pretty good idea of Czech pivo culture
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-07-22
* gavinbaker waves to channel
<gavinbaker> are the bug stats in UWN compiled by hand, or automagically exported from Launchpad?
<Flannel> gavinbaker: hamsters, they're compiled by hamsters
<gavinbaker> Flannel: i see.
<gavinbaker> do these... hamsters have an API i can plug into?
<Flannel> That depends on how much you're willing to feed them, I imagine.   I don't know which data UWN uses, but here's one: http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/
<Flannel> At the bottom there's a paragraph describing how it works (basically just aggregates raw bugs from LP)
<gavinbaker> if i want to compile stats for my own Launchpad project... simple counts, like the ones in UWN (# new bugs this week, # bugs closed this week, etc.)
<Flannel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Ideas#head-0ea10cdba221a1ee61fb83648c61cea68233251d
<Flannel> actually, that's what they do (as per that page)
<Flannel> You might ask carthik for his code, or do some poking around to find it on the interblags
<gavinbaker> Flannel: thanks for the help. now i just have to get my hands on that script :)
<saxonjf> So, what happens in marketing?
<BHSPitMonkey> joins and parts, apparently
<Flannel> well, Ubuntu Live is going on currently
<BHSPitMonkey> you there?
* elkbuntu notes she's terribly jealous of everyone in oregon currently :(
<jenda> While I am not in Oregon myself, I at least made sure some of my stickers made it ;)
<Burgundavia> jenda: oh?
<jenda> Burgundavia: yep, some guy had them express-mailed to him, in time for the conference.
<tsatsos007> Enter text hello
<tsatsos007> does anyone have experience in marketing?
<tsatsos007> i need some help
<tsatsos007> simple stuff
<tsatsos007> :-(
<elkbuntu> tsatsos007, i dont have time right now, but if you say what you need help with in the channel, someone will answer when they see it
<tsatsos007> i cannot grasp the concept of marketing segmentation actually
<tsatsos007> and i want to help a business right now 
<tsatsos007> identify it
<tsatsos007> !
<tsatsos007> but i am confused when i try to apply it
<tsatsos007> the business actually concerns the entire population of a country..it s concerned w health 
<tsatsos007> so how on earth are u going to divide people up when u want to sell to the entire population
<tsatsos007> ?
<tsatsos007> !
<Burgundavia> you figure out a few target markets
<Burgundavia> the rest will follow
<Burgundavia> basically, it can be boiled down to usecases
<tsatsos007> do the people that you actually sell play a role in that
<tsatsos007> ?
<tsatsos007> i mean...
<tsatsos007> because this program is going to be financed by government insurance
<tsatsos007> so citizens will not pay anything
<tsatsos007> BUT it is made for people actually
<Burgundavia> marketing has nothing to do with whether or not people pay
<Burgundavia> and doing marketing research can help
<tsatsos007> so let me understand...why divide people into segments?
<Burgundavia> because if can you break up use cases, you know how to make and market your product better
<Burgundavia> do you know what a use case is?
<tsatsos007> hmmm...not exactly..
<Burgundavia> a use case is basically a story about a user
<Burgundavia> it tells who they are and what they nee
<Burgundavia> need
<tsatsos007> i c... ok the needs and wants of people right
<Burgundavia> yes, but a specific person
<tsatsos007> but take the Electronic medical records in the US
<Burgundavia> not a specific person, but a specific type of person
<tsatsos007> right now
<Burgundavia> ahh
<tsatsos007> how would u divide them up?!
<Burgundavia> easy
<tsatsos007> geographically?
<Burgundavia> you have doctors, nurses, patients, administrators
<Burgundavia> you might have a specific use case about an admin in a hospital in a specific region, due to laws
<tsatsos007> but your target isn t patients primarily?
<Burgundavia> if they use the software, then yes
<tsatsos007> (I c where u r getting at..) 
<Burgundavia> you could think about how a patient needs their medical records to get to
<Burgundavia> maybe they have three or four doctors, all of whom need to know about what the others are doing
<Burgundavia> how does your software handle that
<Burgundavia> ?'
<Burgundavia> do you see what I mean?
<tsatsos007> ok yes..then my next question is that
<tsatsos007> marketing segmentation doe not depend on 
<tsatsos007> organizational stretegy
<tsatsos007> and what wants to do next?
<tsatsos007> i mean what other software it will launch next for example
<Burgundavia> well, it does, because it should be part of a larger plan
<tsatsos007> on health
<Burgundavia> for instance, you usually do your use cases at teh beginning of development
<Burgundavia> this allows you to take those use cases and turn them into marketing, as you now know the needs of the decision makers
<tsatsos007> let me understand the use cases better
<tsatsos007> does it have to be somekind of research
<tsatsos007> or intuition initially
<tsatsos007> then later u could do a research?
<Burgundavia> a bit of both, but better to do your research early
<Burgundavia> remember, your use cases are used in both development and marketing
<Burgundavia> you don't wnat to discover you are developing all the wrong features
<tsatsos007> for example for EHR..people need to have their data safer, private,
<tsatsos007> hmm and ready in case of emergencies
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> so one use case would be how ER nurses can get to the information quickly
<Burgundavia> and your marketing would talk about how they can do that, in a secure manner
<tsatsos007> what if u divide people in to people who are insured..and people who are not insured
<tsatsos007> it would be rather misleading right?
<Burgundavia> I don't really see how that affects your marketing
<tsatsos007> me neither lol
<Burgundavia> remember, your marketing si aimed at decision makers'
<tsatsos007> what d u mean by that?
<Burgundavia> decision makers are hte people who buy your software
<Burgundavia> they are the people who say "yes" to you
<tsatsos007> u mean the customers?
<Burgundavia> yes, your customers
<tsatsos007> i c
<Burgundavia> whomever you want to adopt this software, the decision makers are that organization
<tsatsos007> so what is the purpose of dividing people into segments?
<tsatsos007> ok..to understand their needs
<tsatsos007> and serve them better
<tsatsos007> is that all?
<Burgundavia> pretty much
<Burgundavia> lets look at marketing cars
<Burgundavia> say everybody wants cars that are really big
<tsatsos007> ;-)
<Burgundavia> if you are marketing cars that are really small, you are failing
<Burgundavia> unless of course, you can find a market for people who want really small carsd
<Burgundavia> maybe city dwellers
<jenda> midgets?
<Burgundavia> so you create a marketing campaign about a car that "meets their lifestyle", showing shots of peope int eh city
<Burgundavia> jenda: clearly midgets
<jenda> I'll buy one.
<tsatsos007> correct..but u will divide segments like people with certain income
<Burgundavia> income is one way
<Burgundavia> pretty much anything that people make a decision on is a dividing line
<tsatsos007> ,then will u include the retailers that u will give the cars to sell??
<jenda> income should be included in your supply-demand charts, as it implies the amount they are willing to pay.
<jenda> and those come after you segment your market.
<tsatsos007> since they are the ones that will forward your product?!
* jenda stops interfering with Burgundavia's lecture :)
<Burgundavia> your retailers are often your co-marketeers
<Burgundavia> jenda: no, no, pipe in as needed
<jenda> ok :)
<tsatsos007> :-)
<Burgundavia> I need to sleep, as it is 3am, I need to get up at 8am because Mark's keynote starts at 8
<Burgundavia> yay for Ubuntu live
<jenda> enjoy :)
<tsatsos007> that s great help honestly
<tsatsos007> ok then let me ask u this
<tsatsos007> let s get back to EHR
<Burgundavia> ehr == ?
<tsatsos007> what other segmentation could u do and why?
<tsatsos007> electronic health records
<tsatsos007> (EHR)
<tsatsos007> or EMR
<jenda> tsatsos007: the basis of segmentation is finding out what separate types of people will buy your product
<Burgundavia> given I know nothing about how such software is bought, I cannot help you
<Burgundavia> what you need to do at the very basic is to go to a few hospitals and say "how do you decide which software to get"
<jenda> tsatsos007: I would assume your custumers could be 1) private medical institutions 2) public medical institutions 3) insurance companies...
<tsatsos007> ok people who will actually buy the product is insurance companies (public + private)
<Burgundavia> then you can get those answers and divide them up based on who gave them to you
<tsatsos007> yes
<jenda> each of them would have their own specific requirements and are able of paying different amounts.
<tsatsos007> hospitals ,clinics,etc
<tsatsos007> that s true
<Burgundavia> each has different pain that they are trying to solve
<tsatsos007> but basically it aims to citizens right?
<jenda> tsatsos007: they aren't the decision-makers, however.
<tsatsos007> won t u include them as well?
<Burgundavia> yes, but you don't really care about that stuff
<tsatsos007> that s why i get confused
<Burgundavia> your one and only audience is the people who buy your software
<jenda> tsatsos007: the ones that decide whether or not to get your software are the IT dept. of the institutions, probably, or their directors.
<jenda> If the hospital folks want the software just to annoy their patients, then you need to fulfill that need - not the needs of the patients :)
<Burgundavia> anyway, I am off to sleep
<jenda> Burgundavia: good night.
<tsatsos007> thx for yr help
<tsatsos007> !!
<jenda> Burgundavia: YOU'RE AWAKE???
<tsatsos007> night
<jenda> oh, it's teh west coast - not that bad.
<Burgundavia> jenda: I frequently give long lectures about marketing while complely asleep
<tsatsos007> u r in the Us right?
<jenda> sorry for raising my voice ;)
<jenda> Burgundavia: hehe
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> tsatsos007: so... where were we :
<jenda> :)
<tsatsos007> ok ..so.. 
<jenda> Ah, we were gossiping about Burgundavia, weren't we?
<jenda> erm, no.
<tsatsos007> say i include people like insurance companies..
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> That's up to you - is it possible that they will buy your stuff?
<tsatsos007> the question is then to understand
<tsatsos007> yes say yes
<tsatsos007> so the question is their needs
<tsatsos007> to the program?
<tsatsos007> how they fit in?
<tsatsos007> or what would make them buy it?
<jenda> [Oh... let me chuck in a disclaimer: I have absolutely no marketing qualification whatsoever, and am not responsible for what I say ;)] 
<tsatsos007> and also to quantify them..
<jenda> Well, what would make them buy it - or, in better words, under which circumstances would they buy it.
<tsatsos007> hospitals and insurance companies might include the same number of end users:citizens..right?
<tsatsos007> isn t that confusing?
<jenda> (and the question of price isn't one of the criteria you should be observing right now - you should return to that later)
<jenda> not really
<jenda> but I don't think you care about the citizens - it's the institutions that'll be paying you, no?
<jenda> Unless it isn't - and you will be charging the actual people themselves.
<tsatsos007> basically yes..say though u want to sell to few that are uninsured so u might charge them as well for buying separately
<jenda> aha
<tsatsos007> ;-)
<jenda> so it is a thing individuals might buy too?
<tsatsos007> yes
<jenda> and at the same time, hospitals (the establishment, not the patients) would buy it too?
<tsatsos007> yes
<jenda> if that's the case - you have one gigantic market schism right there. Private individuals and health-related-institutions
<tsatsos007> :-s
<jenda> I'm fairly sure their expectations will differ astronomically, unless all the institutions do is resell the thing to their visitors.
<tsatsos007> confusing isn t it?
<jenda> It might be :)
<jenda> But I think that if you split it up thoroughly, it'll make perfect sense :)
<jenda> This is where use cases come in.
<tsatsos007> that s my problem right now
<jenda> You have to imagine circumstances under which an individual or an institution would buy it.
<tsatsos007> what do u suggest?
<jenda> I have no idea. I still don't understand what the software is for :D
<jenda> For example: jenda is a linux geek. He spends too much time on IRC and has no life. He will not buy the software unless it is released under a GPL-compatible license.
<jenda> That's one of the use cases you know you will not satisfy ;) I'm sure you can find yourself many that you will.
<tsatsos007> lol...basically EHRs connect everyone people have their records digitalized,doctors use them to diagnose,
<jenda> mhmm
<tsatsos007> billing is sent to insurance companies,ets
<tsatsos007> rtc
<tsatsos007> sr ..etc
<jenda> Joe is 74 years old and has trouble with his heart. This requires that he knows exactly what his doctors make of the symptoms he is showing as soon as possible. Because of this, he needs a way to communicate with them efficiently - and email doesn't cut it, because then the doctors would have to evaluate and assemble all the data manually.
<jenda> tsatsos007: something like that?
<tsatsos007> so basically people want to have their records digitalized..are they not a part?
<tsatsos007> yes
<jenda> Would this Joe be a potential customer?
<tsatsos007> wait
<tsatsos007> apart from all that..the doctor can see...age...birth data...xrays(past)..allergies...other illnesses he s gone through
<tsatsos007> to avoid any kind of mistake
<tsatsos007> so in that sense..
<tsatsos007> joe would care to buy it
<tsatsos007> for no medical errors
<tsatsos007> i really got u confused right?
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> no, no I'm fine :
<jenda> :)
<jenda> Thinking.
<jenda> And would Joe have to buy teh software to use it, or would it suffice that the hospital uses it?
<tsatsos007> for people that hospitals/clinics/insurance companies caannot reach...my guess is to sell it separately as well!
<jenda> gah, I just spilt tea on myself. And I don't have any software to take care of that.
<tsatsos007> he would take like a card on him
<jenda> "cannot reach" - does this mean Joe has the option of buying the software from the hospital?
<tsatsos007> but government would pay for it
<tsatsos007> lol!!
<tsatsos007> yes
<tsatsos007> that s right hospitals could make it for him..
<tsatsos007> but there are people that r uninsured..or even people that rarely go to hospitals
<tsatsos007> so difficult to reach
<tsatsos007> !
<jenda> yes
<jenda> I understand
<tsatsos007> so u would include them as well?!
<jenda> but the key here is if Joe can or can't buy it from the hospital, and if you get your money if he does, or if you only get money when the hospital buys it in advance.
<jenda> Certainly - include them as a distinct category.
<jenda> In fact, it seems to me that you only have two categories: the institutions and the end-users
<jenda> The main difference being that the institutions will be reselling the stuff to the end-users, and you have to consider if you want them to pay you each time they do, or if you want to give them a licence to resell from the start.
<tsatsos007> let me think..
<tsatsos007> ok...end users will get them for free basically
<tsatsos007> they won t be able to pay since it concerns a national health isssue
<jenda> Both the users that get it from their hospital, and those that get it from you directly?
<tsatsos007> right?
<jenda> I don't know.
<jenda> You should ;)
<tsatsos007> so government will have to pay one way or another
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> I don't even know which country we're talking about.
<tsatsos007> say for US ..doesn t matter
<tsatsos007> so u ll charge institutions/hospitals
<jenda> good, that makes it simpler
<tsatsos007> that will offer it to citizens
<jenda> but what do you do about those who don't have a hospital that would offer it to them?
<jenda> Ah, you don't need to do anything, as it wouldn't serve them any purpose anyway, as their hospital obviously doesn't use it, no?
<tsatsos007> why did u have to ask me that!!!?lol..i don t have any specific answer lol
<jenda> hehe
<tsatsos007> well at some point in time it will come to use right?
<jenda> ok, so you need to focus on the segmentation of the hospitals and such
<tsatsos007> even though u r not sick now..u may b later
<jenda> yes
<tsatsos007> so u include them?!?
<jenda> but it won't be of any use if your hospital doesn't 'support' the system.
<jenda> You always, always, include only those who _pay_ you.
<jenda> so you don't count with the people at all, if they get it from the hospital.
<jenda> You only count with the hospitals and such.
<tsatsos007> i c..hospitals will support the system..but not everybody will be at hospitals to take it
<jenda> hm
<tsatsos007> i c
<tsatsos007> so u break down to 
<tsatsos007> hospitals,clinics,insurance companies,..
<jenda> Well - will you be giving it to Joe, if he can't get it from his hospital? :)
<jenda> (selling)
<tsatsos007> or institutions in general?
<jenda> well, you only break them down if they differ
<tsatsos007> (that s the trick question...so lets include both cases!)
<jenda> I'm sure a public and a private institution will differ, but I'm not really sure if a hospital will differ from a clinic
<tsatsos007> differ in what sense?
<tsatsos007> u mean their needs?
<jenda> both have patients, both have budgets, both need the SW for the same purpose
<jenda> needs, resources, use cases
<tsatsos007> but if u want to charge them differently?
<tsatsos007> because of their size eg
<jenda> hospitals and clinics?
<tsatsos007> yes maybe..
<jenda> if it's just a quantitative difference (e.g. you charge them per patient annually), no need to make a distinction
<tsatsos007> obviously
<tsatsos007> ok tell me more about the cases..because i don t seem to have understood it
<jenda> if there is a qualitative difference, however - a hospital would be charged per patient and a pharmacy would be charged per... erm... pill? :)
<jenda> Well, Joe, above, is one use case
<jenda> But since we decided Joe gets his stuff from his hospital, he doesn't concern us.
<tsatsos007> lol..what would u examine in the case for hospitals?!
<jenda> Lets say Public Hospital A wants to buy your SW because it would like to track their patients data.
<jenda> We know they have 500 patients a week, 200 of whom would use the same software at home in order to keep in touch with the hospital better.
<tsatsos007> ok..
<tsatsos007> so?
<jenda> I'm not sure what else to track there.
<jenda> But if we compare it with, say, an insurance company...
<jenda> why would an insurance company want your software?
<jenda> Would it have as much use from it as a hospital? I don't think so.
<tsatsos007> because they bill them directly
<tsatsos007> doctors/patients
<jenda> mhm
<tsatsos007> through internet
<tsatsos007> so ehat about them?
<tsatsos007> what can u tell about insurances?
<jenda> Well, Insurance Company B has to pay its customers' doctors' fees whenever they visit P.H. A. This is made much simpler with the use of your software. Half the people in the Hospital's area are customers of this company - which makes it 100 uses/week
<jenda> This changes the hospital's use case too, though
<jenda> P.H. A wants to track data for its patients. It has 500 patients a week, 200 of whom use your software, and half of these are insured with I.C. B.
<jenda> I don't really think the numbers are important here.
<tsatsos007> ok..
<tsatsos007> so how does it change things?
<jenda> Now, I've spotted an important difference in the two types of customer
<jenda> the insurance company uses the software only to know which people to pay for and when, and where to.
<tsatsos007> yes
<jenda> the hospital, however, uses it to communicate with the insurance company about that, but also (mainly) to track their patients data.
<tsatsos007> yes
<tsatsos007> :-)
<jenda> The hospital's needs for the SW are far more robust, and they would likely be able to pay a lot more for it.
<tsatsos007> u have a point there
<jenda> The insurance company could even be satisfied with a much simpler version of the software, if they could pay less than the hospitals.
<tsatsos007> however insurances will save lots of costs
<tsatsos007> but yes indeed
<tsatsos007> hispitals are the main target
<jenda> Take it all into account - but the actual price should, in the end, be found at the balance of supply and demand
<jenda> i.e. the price at which your profit is maximised - when you raise the price a bit, you lose customers, and profit. If you lower the price a bit, you gain customers, but not enough to cover the loss of revenue.
<jenda> highschool economy classes in action there :)
<tsatsos007> actually i ve graduated from a business degree..
<jenda> I'm a law student ;)
<tsatsos007> but it s the application of it that i m stuck now!! ..shit,then how on earth u know that much?
<jenda> Another thing to think about is if the insurance companies will be forwarding the SW to their customers, or not. (What would a customer need the software for, if his hospital doesn't use it, and if it does, he can get it there, no?)
<tsatsos007> (to b hosnest i always had the question of how u go about finding yr demand!!)
<jenda> Erm... I don't really know anything :) I only have experience here in the marketing team, but Ubuntu marketing is something totally different.
<jenda> See my disclaimer above - anything I say here might be a complete load... ;)
<tsatsos007> ideas r that count..:-)
<jenda> Finding demand... hmm... I don't know :) I usually post a forum poll :)
<jenda> I believe it is done by asking a few example use cases
<jenda> most importantly, you need to know that the needs you are trying to fulfill for them aren't already being satisfied by something else.
<tsatsos007> ok i am thinkin about yr previous question
<jenda> ok
<tsatsos007> so...
<jenda> Perhaps the hospitals should have two licences themselves - one for their own SW equipment, and one to sub-licence to customers
<tsatsos007> yes insurance will forward SW
<jenda> The software itself could even be different.
<jenda> will it? ok.
<tsatsos007> hmm..
<tsatsos007> hope is that hospitals will use it
<jenda> yep, that's precondition #1
<jenda> The insurance company will not touch it unless the hospital uses it, and neither will the patients
<jenda> Basically, I think you have 3 market segments now.
<tsatsos007> hosp.,insurance,
<tsatsos007> and patients?
<jenda> 1) Patients. They will not pay for it, they will get it from the hospital. Will the hospital have to pay seperate for being allowed to give it to patients?
<jenda> 2) Insurance. They will pay for it, and will only use it to communicate with hospitals (and perhaps inform the patient)
<jenda> 3) Hospitals. They will use it to communicate with 1 and 2, and to manage their databases of patients' health, finances, drugs, etc.
<jenda> yep, those three
<jenda> each of them have _very_ distinct needs, and can offer different sums, too, nope? :)
<tsatsos007> yes..patient s though as we discussed have 2 choices:
<jenda> For example, the patients, who actually benefit most, will not pay anything. The insurance, which seems to need it least, will be able to pay the most ;)
<tsatsos007> pay
<tsatsos007> or not pay because they are financed by government
<jenda> hmm
<tsatsos007> so only in case they pay should i include them?
<jenda> doesn't that financing go through the insurance?
<jenda> you should definitely include them
<jenda> even if they don't pay, because you need to think of a way to get the software to them, and get paid for it somewhere along the way.
<tsatsos007> yes through insurance
<tsatsos007> that s great ..that s what was confusing me
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> Anything else? :) I _should_ be working :D
<tsatsos007> so to charge tem..u need to find the demand for each?!?
<jenda> hmm
<jenda> probably
<tsatsos007> waht about the supply..
<jenda> the demand for 1 and 2 is 0 until you get hospitals to use it.
<tsatsos007> i c
<jenda> supply is given by the lowest price you're willing to sell at.
<jenda> since it's software, making aditional copies doesn't cost anything
<tsatsos007> to a respective number of hospitals say ..right?
<jenda> taht would be the demand
<tsatsos007> yep..sr 
<jenda> if you draw yourself a demand chart with price at the bottom axis and demand on the left...
<jenda> the demand will drop as the price rises
<tsatsos007> right...supply will increase
<jenda> say, there will be 10 hospitals that would buy it within a month if the price were $50
<jenda> supply isn't really an issue, as you can copy indefinitely, IMO.
<jenda> there would be 20 hospitals that would buy it if you dropped it to $20...
<jenda> and there would be 5 if it came up to $80
<tsatsos007> that is the thing
<tsatsos007> to find how much hospitals will pay..
<jenda> from these three options, $50 would be the best option
<jenda> tsatsos007: and that's one thing I have no clue about :)
<tsatsos007> :-)
<jenda> tsatsos007: but you should compare to similar products on the market.
<tsatsos007> that was my guess
<jenda> But... another thing is that you are basically selling it to the hospitals on as a database. You can't really sell them the communication with customers and insurance as a feature, because you don't have any patients or insurance using it yet
<jenda> they will only start using it once the hospitals do
<jenda> well, actually, you can market the patients thing, because it's up to the hospitals to spread it among their own patients
<tsatsos007> so what s yr point?
<tsatsos007> i c
<jenda> the point is that you have to focus at what the hospitals will be buying
<tsatsos007> well it interdependent
<jenda> the hospitals will be buying software that can hold their data and communicate with patients... but not with insurance companies, as there are no insurance companies that use it out there.
<tsatsos007> if not one doesn t use others wont 
<jenda> once a hospital buys it, you can address the insurance company... methinks.
<tsatsos007> u r right
<tsatsos007> well i can t think of any more qs
<jenda> OK. I'm sorry, but I have to get some work done. I'm waaaay past deadline :) (And yet, not dead)
<tsatsos007> !!
<jenda> cool, good timing :)
<tsatsos007> lol
<tsatsos007> THXXXXXXXXXX
<jenda> no problem :)
<tsatsos007> good luck with yr work
<jenda> thanks
<jenda> One more thing...
<tsatsos007> bye
<tsatsos007> shoot
<jenda> What made you think of asking here? :)
<tsatsos007> that s yr marketing research right?
<tsatsos007> lol
<tsatsos007> ok
<tsatsos007> well actually i googled
<jenda> hehehe
<tsatsos007> and i wanted some answers fast
<tsatsos007> like online rooms
<tsatsos007> i am not sure how i got in here..honestly
<tsatsos007> so what is ubuntu?
<jenda> Muhehehe
<jenda> Dangerous question.
<jenda> It's an operating system
<tsatsos007> can handle it
<tsatsos007> !
<tsatsos007> linux based?
<jenda> a free replacement of MS Windows, based on Linux.
<jenda> Yep
<jenda> It is, according to some sources, the most popular Linux distribution.
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> Most sources, even ;)
<tsatsos007> i don t like windows at all
<tsatsos007> they suck
<jenda> You should definitely give Ubuntu a shot, I believe you will like it.
<tsatsos007> any probs with linux?
<jenda> Haaha... well, certainly not more than with Windows :D
<tsatsos007> yeah i am kind of into pcs anyways..so i ll try it
<tsatsos007> is it open source?
<jenda> There are always problems with computers. But I've been happily using Ubuntu only for 2 years
<jenda> yes, of course
<tsatsos007> i c..
<jenda> Have a look at ubuntu.com, and download a CD
<tsatsos007> i ve noticed Mac is doin a good job
<tsatsos007> in europe it s skyrocketing
<tsatsos007> trust me i c it everyday
<jenda> I've never tried it - I'm quite content with my OS:)
<jenda> hehe
<tsatsos007> me neither..but i c from friends
<jenda> skyrocketing? Cool, I don't know anyone with a Mac in my town.
<jenda> (Prague)
<tsatsos007> greece..lol
<tsatsos007> and london as i was there last year
<tsatsos007> :-)
<tsatsos007> cool
<jenda> coolio
<tsatsos007> i may pop with more questions next time
<jenda> When you download and burn Ubuntu to a CD, you can also run directly from the CD, so you can try it before you even install.
<tsatsos007> lol
<jenda> hehe
<tsatsos007> can i install it with
<tsatsos007> windows on?
<jenda> Sure
<tsatsos007> is it goin to slow down a lot?
<jenda> the computer will then ask which you'd like to boot into at startup
<jenda> not at all
<jenda> it'll just eat up some disk space
<jenda> 4 Gigs minimum
<tsatsos007> cpu?
<jenda> no, because you don't run both at the same time
<jenda> you start up into Windows OR Ubuntu each time.
<tsatsos007> good answer
<jenda> The minimum disk space is 4 Gigs
<tsatsos007> u said ubuntu.com?
<jenda> I recommend 10
<jenda> yep
<tsatsos007> some people said to me that linux is hard to get used to
<tsatsos007> but after that it s really awesome
<tsatsos007> is that so?
<jenda> Ubuntu is geared towards new users.
<jenda> I think it should be a breeze.
<tsatsos007> gr8!
<tsatsos007> ok then...
<jenda> In fact, it's a lot easier to switch to, I've heard, than Macs.
<tsatsos007> thx again for yr help!!!!!
<jenda> As it is more similar to Windows than them. (Although techniacally, Macs and Linuxes are related :))
<jenda> No problem.
<jenda> Back to work for me.
<tsatsos007> i c
<tsatsos007> byyyyeee
<jenda> G'bye
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> that was fun
<jenda> I hope he doesn't come back one day and sue me for bankrupting his company through bad advice.
<Vorian> he will jenda
<Vorian> you are DOOMED!!!!
<jenda> I told him about 3 times that I know nothing about marketing :)
<jenda> But "ideas r that count", as he'd say :)
<juliux> hi Vorian 
<juliux> Vorian, i am so sorry about your shirts
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-07-15
<hubuntu> hei pep
<hubuntu> how are things?'
<pep> fine hubuntu, you must have seen the e-mails
<hubuntu> I am
<pep> fine
<hubuntu> I was going to send one about the meeting
<hubuntu> I think we should rush it ASAP
<pep> I'm doing good, spent the morning with my girlfriend ;)
<pep> yeah
<pep> definitely!
<hubuntu> say first coming saturday or something
<pep> fine
<pep> any time, any day for me
<pep> (almost ;)
<hubuntu> Good, then I will send it and we will have to book the ubuntu-meeting channel or take it here if it's already booked
<hubuntu> I liked your design. I suck at designing but I know drupal administration very well
<hubuntu> So I can help you setting up the site. We should take a look at the option of runningn our site somewhere
<hubuntu> anywhere...
<pep> I think we should have the meeting in here
<pep> yeah, this is the current design: http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/1834/mockup6bismn7.png what do you think? any comments?
<hubuntu> same for me as long as the team and all interesting parts come
<pep> yes, that's the most important
<pep> that is why i'd wait another day until hopefully more people have replied
<hubuntu> I have one comment, although it may seem superfluous
<hubuntu> we should use the newest version of the template (see shipit.ubuntu.com and note the bottom). I'm going to ask the people at #ubuntu-website where that code is so you can play with it
<pep> ah yes, nice
<hubuntu> besides that this being the mockup for the diy.spreadubuntu.com it seems reasonable to just have download and upload as option
<pep> ok
<pep> yes
<pep> simplicity = usability = effective
<hubuntu> indeed
<pep> but I used the template of https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ ...
<pep> I jsut made it larger
<pep> and added a content area in it
<hubuntu> see the bottom?
<pep> on yes
<pep> I cut it, true ;)
<pep> don't know why^^
<pep> ah yes I remember
<hubuntu> Oh, ok
<hubuntu> shipit is the only ubuntu site that has it
<hubuntu> everything else has the one you cut
<hubuntu> ;)
<pep> I took a screenshot of ubuntu.com, but the page was larger, so I would have had to scroll and re-take a screenshot :p
<pep> ah ok
<pep> I'll add it
<pep> Â© 2008 Canonical Ltd. ?
<hubuntu> so you are just gimp'ing? I thought you were working in the template itself
<pep> is that template copyright to canonical?
<pep> no, I just gimped taht, took me a couple of minutes
<pep> but I can work on the template as well
<pep> :)
<pep> but I prefferred rapidly gimp'ing several propositions before getting into the actual template
<pep> do you know if that template is copyright to canonical?
<pep> I see you're in #ubuntu-website
<hubuntu> if we make our own it would be our and theirs I guess
<hubuntu> let me ask
<pep> yes
<hubuntu> pep  http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/projects/ubuntu08.zip
<hubuntu> there you go ;)
<pep> thanks
<hubuntu> that is the site I just showed you and with the guidelines we are on track ;)
<hubuntu> this is awesome!
<pep> yes...
<pep> hubuntu: so you're taking care of the drupal 5 set-up?
<pep> I'm going to have to test drupal on my local machine... never used it :)
<hubuntu> drupal is really easy
<pep> hubuntu: yes, I jsut took a look at the shipit code, looks fun :)
<pep> I mean, it's going in the right way
<pep> There is just one other thing I have to ask...
<pep> hubuntu: "We should take a look at the option of runningn our site somewhere, anywhere..." I suppose this is a server question?
<pep> I might have a server to experiment on..
<pep> hubuntu: to install drupal I suppose you need only one mysql database and php5?
<hubuntu> indeed
<hubuntu> if you have somewhere, anywhere, that's all we need
<pep> yeah
<pep> I'm talking with a friend on msn :)
<hubuntu> nice
<hubuntu> pep what time is it right now on UTC?
<pep> mhh 22 I think...
<hubuntu> are we +2 now (Belgium/Norway)?
<pep> yes
<pep> I think
<pep> hubuntu: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
<pep> ok
<pep> he's ok with lending us a space
<pep> but onlu for development, as he only has 4.3 GB free
<hubuntu> awesome
<hubuntu> can you ask him to load up the drupal install for us?
<hubuntu> what about 21UTC Saturday 19tj?
<pep> yeah, ok for me.. but ideally it should suit the most people...
<pep> hubuntu: I wil install drupal
<pep> he created a database apprently
<pep> and a subdomain
<pep> I just need to find my ftp logins
<mikehouben> test
<pep> hoi mikehouben
<mikehouben> hoi pep xD
<pep> hubuntu: mikehouben is hosting us
<Houbsi> yhep yhep ;)
<Houbsi> thaats me ;)
<hubuntu> hei Houbsi
<hubuntu> that's awesome man
<Houbsi> a little bit space free :;)
<hubuntu> :)
<hubuntu> thanks man
<Houbsi> no prob ;)
<Houbsi> if you need something in the web ;) ask Houbsi ;)
<hubuntu> I would use my slicehost, but I'm having trouble with it right now and I'm not sure I'm keeping it after 3 months
<Houbsi> my host ist german, not a big thing, but it works and is "cheap"
<pep> domain will be spreadubuntu.houbsi.org btw
<pep> I'm jsut looking for a free socket to plug in my external hdd
<Houbsi> houbsi.org -> is in work ;) not enough time, studys are hard >_<
<pep> yeah
<pep> +1 Houbsi ;)
<Houbsi> but ;) il love my studys ;) webdesign rulez xD
<Houbsi> oh sry
<pep> right, found ftp logins :)
<Houbsi> if you need something, contact me ;)
<pep> yeah sure Houbsi!
<pep> thanks ;)
<pep> I'll try to install drupal then
<pep> usr_web110226_5 is the name right?
<Houbsi> yhep
<Houbsi> please dont post it everywhere ;)
<Houbsi> sooo
<Houbsi> little houbsi goes to sleep
<pep> hehe, ofc :) but without pass or server its kinda useless ;)
<pep> ciao Houbsi
<hubuntu> Houbsi is cool :)
<pep> yeah, he's nice
<pep> always helpful ;)
<pep> he's a funny little guy
<pep> hubuntu: so we're using drupal 5.8 right? not that I install the wrong one :)
<hubuntu> go drupal 5.X
<hubuntu> :)
<pep> ok
<pep> I hate it when I don't have ssh access -_-
<pep> houbsi only has ftp :)
<pep> but it's better than nothing 
<hubuntu> ftp is good enough for most task on web sites ;)
<pep> yeah practically it is
<pep> but with ssh I really have the feeling to work locally
<pep> sometimes I even wonder why some programs aren't installed :)
<hubuntu> get that feeling once in a while too
<pep> right... I uploaded the cms, I'll install it and start working on the template this week
<pep> going to bed now
<pep> way too late again :)
<pep> good night
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-07-16
<hornyforholbach> hello
<hornyforholbach> i'm horny for holbach
<hornyforholbach> nice to meet you
<pep> Flannel: ping
<Flannel> pep: pong
<pep> Flannel: hey :)
<pep> do you receive the e-mails from SpreadUbuntu mailing list?
<pep> we are trying to find a date/time to set up a meeting
<Flannel> pep: I saw them, have been busy the first half of this week.  But, any time should be feasible, given enough notice.
<pep> ok
<pep> so saturday 21UTC should be ok?
 * cody-somerville notes that he can help with PHP if need be. :)
<Flannel> pep: Yeah, it should be.
<pep> cody-somerville: that's great! We will meet saturday probably, it'll proably take place here so you'll be able to follow the meeting
<cody-somerville> ok
<boredandblogging> pep: where is the spreadubuntu conversation happening?
<pep> boredandblogging: dev discussion?
<boredandblogging> pep: yeah
<pep> boredandblogging: on the mailing list of the workgroup check out the archives here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/diy and join the team on launchpad to subscribe 
<boredandblogging> pep: thanks
<pep> I will mail the list
<hubunt1> Pep have we set the meeting for saturday?
<hubunt1> Pep alive?
<pep> yes hubunt1
<pep> installing my eeePC
<pep> :)
<hubunt1> Nice... It comes with xandross right?
<pep> nah, this one came with XP, someone I made a website for gave it to me
<hubunt1> Nice change
<hubunt1> So you like it?
<pep> got to get the grips with the  tiny keyboard
<hubunt1> I'm oon the n810 right now. I like MIDs
<pep> but yeah I like it
<hubunt1> Is it heavy?
<pep> that's really tiny :D
<pep> (just checked on the web what it was)
<pep> hubunt1: no it's not too heavy, a bit more than a good book...
<hubunt1> Like under a kilo?
<pep> around there yeah
<hubunt1> I'm considering one... How much storage does it have?
<pep> the new ones have 8GB
<pep> with a decent usb stick it's ok
<hubunt1> Running hardy now or what?
<pep> hubunt1: yeah, I'm running eeeXubuntu
<pep> it works fine
<pep> ah my connection has problems
<hubunt1> Is it fast? What are the processor and ram specs? BT, Wlan?
<pep> hang on
<hubunt1> Sorry if i'm asking too much
<pep> actually, the new ones seem to be much more performant
<pep> http://eeepc.asus.com/global/1000h.htm
<pep> at the bottom of the page you've got the details
<pep> mine is one of the first
<pep> I've got the 701
<pep> the 4GB
<hubunt1> Is the meeting scheduled for saturday?
<pep> yes, probably
<pep> ah got to mail the list tomorrow.... I'll write it down
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-07-17
<hubuntu> I'm working with a professional photograÃ¥her and a post production business to make a Ubuntu commercial for the web (youtube, ubuntuvideo, etc...)
<hubuntu> now I want to show that Ubuntu is not only used by hackers and geeks, but also children, grandpas, girlfriends.
<hubuntu> So the idea is to make a commercial that has nothing to do with ubuntu as a technology, but rather as something in the background while showing the "spirit" of Ubuntu
<hubuntu> show in a MID, in a laptop, in a kiosk, in a computer, in a school lab
<pep`> nice :)
<hubuntu> If anybody would be interested in giving concrete ideas for the script of the video or have any kind of input I would welcome it
<hubuntu> We are shooting in september, so there is time if anybody is interested
<hubuntu> hey pep, I saw the emails
<pep`> hubuntu: I'm writing another one 
<hubuntu> I see Onno's point, but still I believe we can work on the design at this stage as long as it is not too detailed
<pep`> hubuntu: I remember that I was really touched by this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4&feature=related
<pep`> yeah
<pep`> I wrote that, the questions he asked don't keep desing thinking of happening, they don't interfere...
<pep`> design*
<hubuntu> I know, I think we need to clarify this and we should send an email to the marketing list as well as the su list about the meeting., It seems people is not aware of it taking plavce
<pep`> Yes
<pep`> I was going to do that after this e-mail
<pep`> I was really surprised btw when Onno asked what was happening saturday, because it was on the list
<pep`> and it's not as if there was so much traffic :)
<hubuntu> ok...
<pep`> phew, big e-mail just sent
<hubuntu> you write your email and I write a meeting announcement to both lists.
<hubuntu> saturday 19UTC?
<hubuntu> is that a good time?
<pep`> Ä¥ang on
<pep`> didn't we say 21 UC?
<pep`> UTC
<pep`> because I already said that to 3 persons in here, to Onno, and it's waht was on the lsit...
<pep`> list*
<hubuntu> ok
<hubuntu> 21UTC then (it's kind of late)
<pep> yeah
<pep> but all are not in our time zone I'm afraid
<pep> hubuntu: could you include a quick status report of the project in your meeting announcement for the marketing list?
<hubuntu> ok, status is as follows:
<hubuntu> diy and SU projects in launchpad are assigned to us (the SU team) now
<pep> yes
<hubuntu> we have a playground webserver by Houbsie to work with drupal
<pep> -e
<pep> ;)
<hubuntu> *Houbsi
<hubuntu> Leonov will be used as a start for SUgui and we will implement plug-ins for it so elements can be edited from within the app (+/- 1 years from now)
<pep> (we've got to clarify how and in which extent we are going to use launchpad, I must say that I haven't completely seen through this... maybe you can make things clearer... I asked the question in my e-mail to the list...)
<hubuntu> (I saw it, and the way I see it we have no choice, but we need to become better at it)
<pep> at lp? :D
<pep> yeah
<pep> really^^
<pep> I'm working on it :)
<pep> that's why io started the blueprint and the bazaar branch for the drupal template, to get the grips a bit more
<hubuntu> Launchpad will have the elements in their DVCS so we can track different versions and keep high quality versions of the material without killing our bandwidth or storage space
<pep> yeah, good
<hubuntu> the site will have the latest copy of the elements as well as a database pointing to the original elements stored in LP
<pep> don't forget to write your thinking to the list so that it is kept up
<pep> yes, for translation...
<hubuntu> among others
<hubuntu> LP will be used for translations, request tracking
<pep> Oh, yeah i forgot al that in my e-mail!
<hubuntu> I saw some disccusion on how that can be done practically in the marketing list
<hubuntu> There's a guy that know alot about this (Simon I think)
<pep> ah that makes me think of something.... promised to write an e-mail to our community manager about this
<pep> ok, done. Don't forget to get back to the list and/or wiki with your comments about LP and Leonov ;)
<pep> brb
<hubuntu> pep
<hubuntu> I'm writing the email
<pep> right
<hubuntu> I will paste the content when I'm done so you can add/remove anything
<hubuntu> is good to double check
<pep> oh right, very well
<hubuntu> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/28034/
<pep> looking at it
<pep> very good, just some details: line 17> space needed between they_can, line 3> you might want to precise that it's in#ubuntu marketing at 21 utc ;)
<hubuntu> I am making changes related to time and irc channel
<pep> YEAH
<hubuntu> ;)
<pep> :)
<pep> No, it's ok
<pep> hang on, I'll show you what I wrote to jono
<hubuntu> ok
<pep> hubuntu: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/28035/
<pep> I explained the project a little more, but that's not really necessary for the team
<pep> also
<pep> you might want to poitn out that we can use the help of someone familiar with launchpad and bzr, etc...
<pep> point*
<pep> but it's not essential really, you said the most important
<hubuntu> I added that now
<hubuntu> I'm off
<hubuntu> see ya later
<pep> bye
<Flannel> pep: those questions weren't designed to be answered right away, but instead at our get together thing on Sat.
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-07-19
<pep> good night
<Flannel> night pep.  See you tomorrow.
<meoblast001> sweet
<meoblast001> hi ppl
<Flannel> Howdy meoblast001 
<meoblast001> ok
<meoblast001> i have ideas
<meoblast001> i've been supporting this since forever and just learned a team for this exists today
<meoblast001> i has skills
<meoblast001> music
<meoblast001> animation
<meoblast001> web design
<meoblast001> can i be in?
<Flannel> meoblast001: yes
<meoblast001> sweet
<meoblast001> =D
<meoblast001> Flannel: is there a special mini-site or something yet?
<meoblast001> i also have 3D modeling skills
<Flannel> meoblast001: mini site?
<meoblast001> like
<meoblast001> a marketing site or something
<Flannel> meoblast001: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<meoblast001> im there right now
<meoblast001> i'd like to start up a mini-site
<meoblast001> something thats like.... uhhh
<Flannel> what is a mini site?
<meoblast001> how do i explain this
<meoblast001> i'll give you an example of a minisite
<meoblast001> hmm
<meoblast001> sytrus mini-site must have been closed
<meoblast001> cant use that as an example
<meoblast001> Flannel: a minisite is usually done in Flash and tells you the basics of a project or product.... it throws out the most important details and is usually full of clean looking eyecandy to make the visitor think "thats professsional"
<meoblast001> welcome
<meoblast001> Flannel: do you want to hear some of my musical work or see some of my web/animation work?
<Flannel> meoblast001: That's not necessary, but you can share if you'd like.
<meoblast001> Flannel: ok... ill show you my breakbeat i made for the next release of Nexuiz
<meoblast001> Flannel: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/19/904700/theheartofinsanity.mp3
<meoblast001> dang it
<meoblast001> nevermind
<meoblast001> thats the old one.. the not good one
<meoblast001> Flannel: here http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/3/19/904700/thebeastofinsanity.mp3
<meoblast001> Flannel: webdesign and my old animations are at www.mysticgalaxies.com
<meoblast001> i can animate better now
<meoblast001> Flannel: did you look at those?
<Flannel> Yep
<meoblast001> what do you think
<meoblast001> i want to make something more suddle for any Ubuntu stuff
<Flannel> sounds good
<meoblast001> Flannel: ive never been good at slow music though
<meoblast001> i just made a sweet begining to a song
<meoblast001> well im out
<meoblast001> time to go to bed
<Flannel> night meoblast001
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> is anyone available right now... i have a sweet idea
<elkbuntu> for what?
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: i have an idea
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: i printed off all the Ubuntu flyers, and next year im gonna give them all to my comptuer teacher and hope it goes up to administration
<meoblast001> i have a small school so its worth a shot
<elkbuntu> meoblast001, it's also worth writing letters to the politicians in your local area :)
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: should i get edubuntu or ubuntu?
<elkbuntu> meoblast001, depends on the current setup
<meoblast001> of our school?
<meoblast001> our school runs mainly IBM's with Windows XP Professional
<elkbuntu> as thin clients?
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: whats a thin client?
<meoblast001> oh dang it
<meoblast001> i have a question
<elkbuntu> networked computers that dont have harddrives of their own
<meoblast001> our computer has this big hard disk everyone knows of as the Z drive...... it basically stores all users stuff
<meoblast001> and all users are on that
<meoblast001> and yes... the computers have harddisks
<meoblast001> but they clean them all off every night
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: is that possible?
<elkbuntu> sure. but then we get into technical aspects and this is a marketing channel
<meoblast001> yeah
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: one other question
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: my school uses a web filter known as bess and a remote monitoring program that monitors all computers... is that possible
<elkbuntu> sure
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: do you know the apps?
<meoblast001> that do that
<meoblast001> i want to try them out
<elkbuntu> not off the top of my head
<meoblast001> what do you recommend looking up then?
<elkbuntu> typing "ubuntu web filter" is a good place to start, then replacing "web filter" with whatever you want to know about for other topics
<elkbuntu> (into google, that is)
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: dang it.... my school is too retarded to configure stuff
<meoblast001> elkbuntu: im gonna try dansguardian out
<meoblast001> im going to bed
<meoblast001> its late
<meoblast001> night
<Flannel> Anyone alive?
<pep> Yes
<pep> coming
<pep> right
<pep> Who's here for the Spread Ubuntu meeting?
<Flannel> You and me, looks like.
<pep> no
<Flannel> Its less of a meeting, more of a discussion.
<pep> there are people just watching too :)
<pep> yes
<pep> of course
<pep> we don't have an agenda anyway
<pep> Do you know if Onno planned to come?
<Flannel> I don't
<pep> Nvm
<pep> maybe someone will turn up in a couple of minutes ;)
<Flannel> Even if they don't, we can still get stuff done
<pep> Flannel: any comments about the project specs thread?
<pep> (jupp)
<cody-somerville> :]
<Flannel> pep: Those specs need to be decided at a discussion like todays
<Flannel> pep: I think a large problem we seem to have is everyone sends out "announcement" type emails instead of discussion type emails
<pep> i'd have liked to see Mike feravolo, onno and joshua chase here actually (and hubuntu obviously but that's not souch a problem :-)
<pep> Flannel: yeah, I'm constantly trying to get people to comment my e-mails and give their part, like Ruben did with the specs e-mail...
<Flannel> We're not really *talking* about the project
<pep> oh right
<pep> well, I'd like to... :)
<Flannel> pep: I'd personally like to see a lot more discussion here on a day to day basis.
<Flannel> I realise with timezones thats not always possible, but still
<Flannel> IRC is much less formal, people are more likely to justsit down and toss ideas around
<Flannel> instead of feeling the need to write up elaborate emails that cover large things
<pep> We discuss regularly with Ruben when we see each other on IRC
<pep> yeah
<Flannel> That might just be my perception though
<pep> that' was what was behind this meeting
<pep> no you're right
<pep> that's why I really wanted a meeting to
<pep> +day
<Flannel> right
<pep> I think we're doing a little too much objective thinking :)
<Flannel> Which objective thinking?
<pep> it's time to stop talking about methods and getting things done you see? we have to get more subjectif now, into it
<pep> actively flourishing ideas
<pep> and sharing them
<Flannel> What sort of methods?
<pep> well, we're not yet into it...
<pep> we are trying
<pep> but don't just *do* it.. and then we keep saying how we should take the next steps instead of taking them
<pep> now don't take this bad :)
<Flannel> If the "methods" youre talking about are planning how to code and stuff, we haven't done that (but that doesn't necessarily have to happen first).  If its... some other methods... I dont know
<pep> this is not relative to what you just said
<pep> it's all of us that are each in their corner
<Flannel> Mhmm
<pep> like onno's commentary that followed the design mockups
<pep> he's right
<Flannel> Oh, while we're here.  What is  https://launchpad.net/spreadubuntu
<pep> totally
<pep> but then we have to start putting answers ;Ã 
<pep> Flannel: it is the Site part
<pep> jsut read the title
<pep> just*
<Flannel> pep: No no.  but why does it have its own launchpad project?
<pep> Because it is the old spreadubuntu project
<Flannel> these aren't separate projects, they certainly don't need separate code branches.  They can both live on the same code branch
<pep> we didn't create it
<Flannel> Ah, thats the old one.
<Flannel> ok
<pep> I just changed the details
<Flannel> Whats the new one then? or is there not a new one?
<pep> and made out of the diy website the diy.su project and out of the oroginal spreadubuntu the site part
<pep> now we're working on diy-spreadubuntu (used to be ubuntu-diy-marketing project) 
<Flannel> I say remove one of them, and use the other.  the other is... diy-website? or what?
<pep> diy-spreadubuntu
<Flannel> I say ditch diy-spreadubuntu, use spreadubuntu as the entire project, it can hold both codes.
<pep> yeah, I wanted to
<Flannel> So, just do it?
<pep> actually a launchpad admin has to
<pep> and we came to keep it finally to not loose the code and such...
<pep> but now that you say it
<pep> I still think the best is to ditch it
<Flannel> Well, change spreadubuntu to talk abotu the whole project, and in the team time, change the description on the other one to say "old, don't use" or whatever
<pep> but which one? :)
<pep> diy-spreadubuntu then
<pep> stupid question
<Flannel> pep: spreadubuntu to keep, since its the overarching theme.  diy-spreadubuntu doesn't maek sense to have both parts in it
<pep> yeah sure, my bad
<Flannel> I'm glad you wanted to ditch one... since sometimes I worry we're balkanizing this project way too much.  Worrying too much about structure and stuff.
<Flannel> Howdy hubuntu
<pep> I worry that there is not enough energy :)
<pep> ah there he is ;)
<hubuntu> Good evening.. I came as soon as i could
<pep> hubuntu: we are 3
<Flannel> pep: I wouldn't worry about the energy.
<pep> Flannel and I jsut talked about having 2 projects on LP, and came back to the conclusion that we might as well ditch diy-spreadubuntu and only work in spreadubuntu, hosting both codes and everything
<pep> so I'm going to take care of that
<hubuntu> Ok. Is Onno here? Mike? Meisok?
<pep> Nope
<hubuntu> ;)
<hubuntu> Ok
<pep> meisok is eating I think
<pep> and jchase is not here either
<hubuntu> Let's get on. What have you guys discussed till now?
<pep> nothing essential
<pep> basically what I said about the project in LP
<hubuntu> Ok
<pep> and that we would like more discussion on IRC, more ideas
<Flannel> hubuntu: plus the need to talk more on IRC (or casual emails), and less in "announcement" type emails
<pep> Flannel: can you repeat for hubuntu?
<Flannel> I'll post a log
<Flannel> actually
<hubuntu> Shall we introduce ourselves and give keypoint of our skills and roles in the community?
<pep> o.O
<hubuntu> So we can get an idea of where we stand and what we can contribute actively with
<Flannel> hubuntu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/28545/
<pep> Ah right
<hubuntu> I'm rwading the log
<pep> I think we should get on with discussing the project specs thread
<pep> hubuntu: sure, do so
<hubuntu> Ok. I'm on
<hubuntu> We are here to define the diy site part rigth?
<Flannel> hubuntu: We're here to talk about whatever
<pep> well, Flannel, you did not reply to the thread about the specs, would you like to comments anything?
<Flannel> pep: Uh, let me refresh my memory
<pep> it's about three e-mails...
<pep> no
<pep> yes
<pep> sorry :)
<Flannel> Let me just summarize what my answers to the questions would be.  That might be simpler.
<hubuntu> Go flannel
<pep> hubuntu: you got time?
<pep> or anything before you?
<pep> I mean, for me you can take your time Flannel 
<hubuntu> Yes
<hubuntu> I have the whole evening
<pep> yeah Flannel it is good that every person gives his answers
<pep> and then find a nice middle
<pep> :)
<Flannel> It offers download stuffs for arbitrary people, upload stuff for arbitrary people (maybe not arbitrary? some sort of moderated? thing? whatever).  Both of these are handled by bzr, so you can also use that as an interface.  With bzr comes a form of version control, and other flexibility.  We'll support any filetypes, including the final projects and their source.
<Flannel> version control for the site itself will also be done in bzr, since thats what we have readily available
<Flannel> We also support languages.  Either through rosetta or not (I'm not familiar with how rosetta works).
<pep> (tell us when you're about done)
<Flannel> I... think that's about it?  As for the sort of use case things...
<Flannel> random person (org, loco, whatever) comes, finds whatever they need, uses it.  If they have materials they want to share, they upload/share.
<Flannel> Pretty simple.
<Flannel> I'm done.  I think I covered it all.  Anything I missed?
<pep> it musn't be rosetta for me I think, would be nice, but probably difficult for every type of document... but we should investigate this
<pep> like all the concrete launchpad use we do
<pep> what exactly is a document in lp, a project?
<pep> etc..
<Flannel> pep: document?
<pep> well, a material.
<pep> I don't know how to call it
<hubuntu> A document in LP thrfough bzr is a document with version control tracking
<Flannel> Materials range from images, icons, posters, brochures, etc.
<Flannel> I imagine a lot of our stuff will be SVG
<hubuntu> Bzr is the key
<hubuntu> Indeed Flannel. I believe svg will be our man 'standard'
<hubuntu> *Main
<Flannel> pep: Again, I have no idea how rosetta works, but maybe we put all the textin a file, and then people can translate through rosetta, and then someone goes through andtakes the translated text and puts it back into the files?
<pep> pff, seems long..
<Flannel> I mean, if rosetta can only deal with semi-unformatted text
<pep> just to say "we used it"
<pep> no?
<Flannel> pep: I don't care about using it.  I was under the impression that others wanted to.
<Flannel> I have no idea how it works, so it might not be worth it.
<hubuntu> Rosetta is wonderfful in that that anyone can translate everything
<pep> yes, I'd like to, but we have to see what is more effective once we've got a clearer view of the type of documents and how we handle them in bazaar exactly
<Flannel> If not, then things get trnaslated by people who then upload the translated things as a translation of the original
<hubuntu> And yes, a svg file would have a .po file for transllation
<pep> maybe it's easuier to download the svg/png , translate and upload the new one next to the old
<pep> yes, for svg it's ok true :)
<pep> but then comes the placement problem
<hubuntu> That's why the SUgui is central
<Flannel> hubuntu: po files don't really work for non-compiled things, right?
<pep> in different languages you place it differently, we'll have to see how we review things that have been translated
<Flannel> For the moment, I don't mind dealing with translations "manually", with the prospect of integrating somehow with rosetta later
<hubuntu> They work for a svg or anything really, depends on how far we are willing to work with this
<Flannel> manually being, someone downloads the file, translates, re-uploads as a translation
<hubuntu> Flannel i agree
<Flannel> just like all the content in the wiki is translated currently
<hubuntu> But I think that we should have the translation platform ready by september
<pep> I think we should discuss translation point after having completely cleared and confirmed and proved possible the exact process we use for the documents, in bzr I mean
<pep> no?
<Flannel> hubuntu: I think deadlines are a bit premature at this point
<hubuntu> True
<Flannel> pep: the ability to have multiple versions (different languages) of a resource is something that is easy to build into our system if we do it from the start.  Might not be easy to revamp later though
<pep> ok, if you think
<pep> it is maybe because I'm not familiar with bazaar :)
<pep> and you not with rosetta ;)Ã 
<Flannel> pep: Well, bzr is just files.  bzr won't be dealing with our translations.  The system we build ontop of bzr will.
<Flannel> as far as bzr is concerned, they're all more or less "just files"
<pep> ok
<pep> so a database entry would be associated with a document, it's translations, the bzr address for updates, and a metafile... what else?
<Flannel> pep: Um, not quite like that, but sort of.
<pep> huh :D
<pep> ok
<Flannel> let me see if I cant quickly throw something together to illustrate
<Flannel> no, thats not going to work in the time constraints of the meetingn
<hubuntu> I'm gonna ask the launchpad people about rodetta
<Flannel> pep: Basically, everything in bzr includes a metafile, which describes the resource, and also points to its various files (that are in the same directory, or subdirectories).  Then our server program thing takes the info from bzr, and puts it into the DB (I know that poster1 has this description, and this creator, and this english file, this french file, this english source file, etc)
<Flannel> pep: the server program reads the metafile to know what files in that directory/subdirectories are what
<Flannel> and each resource gets its own directory (probably in a heirarchy) inside of bzr.  so, like /posters/installfest/my-poster-1
<Flannel> pep: Basically, everything in bzr includes a metafile, which describes the resource, and also points to its various files (that are in the same directory, or subdirectories).  Then our server program thing takes the info from bzr, and puts it into the DB (I know that poster1 has this description, and this creator, and this english file, this french file, this english source file, etc)
<pep> sorry I had a freeze -_-
<Flannel> pep: the server program reads the metafile to know what files in that directory/subdirectories are what
<Flannel> and each resource gets its own directory (probably in a heirarchy) inside of bzr.  so, like /posters/installfest/my-poster-1
<pep> ok
<Flannel> so, /posters/installfst/my-poster-1/Metafile my-poster-1/poster-blah.svg my-poster-1/poster-blah2.svg etc
<pep> that's about what I imagined, thanks for precising that! =)
<Flannel> and then in the Metafile, it knows that potser-blah is the english source version, poster-blah2 is the french one, etc.
<pep> are you familiar with writing these type of database server programs? I suppose Onno will give us a hand....
<Flannel> pep: Yeah, it shouldn't be a big deal.
<Flannel> Basically when we update, we get a diff from bzr, showing which files have changed, and then take the changed information and update it in our DB
<Flannel> Its a pretty simple DB structure and process
<pep> good
<pep> now it is clear! :)
<pep> I really didn't see through this tbh
<pep> and I understand why the translation is more important..
<pep> what else is there important to clarify?
<Flannel> pep: through this tbh?
<pep> to be honest*
<pep> uhm
<pep> I didn't understand everything until now to be honest
<Flannel> Oh
<Flannel> Well, glad to clarify
<pep> I thought about clearly defining a classification system for one... deciding on which entries...
<pep> which comments on this? => https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/diy#head-7b73d553a3987aaab369cd5c7eeb0d35e071e71e
<hubuntu> Let me see pep
<pep> it mustn't be finished tonight
<pep> but I'd like to get the completion rolling
<Flannel> I don't think anything will ever be finished.  If we wait for that, we really will never get anything done
<hubuntu> True, but we can agree on something to work with
<pep> yes Flannel :)
<pep> yes, start discussing, so , what do you think? what jumps to your developer eyes? what do you think *must* be a criteria of sorting, what not? etc... we will be able to work on the logs of our discussion if we don't remember all
<pep> I thought about something to add to my paragraph this afternoon: nÂ° of downloads, just a detail but important
<hubuntu> Analytics will aid us theere pep
<hubuntu> ;)
<pep> true, but I'm talking about the interest for the user, of it being a column and a criteria of sorting
<pep> not for us
<Flannel> I think "type" and "category" (type being the type of material, category being what its purpose is) are important for classification.  Description is also important, but not really a "classifier"
<pep> and we can use piwik, open source variant of google analytics, we are setting it up for ubuntu-be and possibly the belgian indymedia site (7000 visits/day)
<hubuntu> Is it as good as analytics?
<pep> right, description will come in the profile page (that's how I call it)
<Flannel> I'm not sure analytics will be of much use
<hubuntu> Works with drupal?
<pep> hubuntu: well analytics is more ad-sense oriented
<pep> yes hubuntu there is a module
 * Flannel isn't sure we'll be using drupal either, but that's a topic for another day.
<pep> it is quite good we discussed it today
<hubuntu> I believe analytics will be vital when we move to the campaign site aprt
<pep> but it's still quite young
<hubuntu> I believe drupal is the way to go
<pep> yeah... we'll write it down for a decision to take
<pep> ok that's a discussion too
<hubuntu> As the rest of the community is based on that
<pep> are we taking about classification now or going over to drupal?
<Flannel> I think drupal is overkill and not really necessary.  But that's a frontend thing.  I think I'm going to concentrate on the backend more.
<pep> ok, drupal :)
<Flannel> pep: We're tlakigna about whatever
<hubuntu> And is a platform so we don't have to reinvent the whell
<pep> Flannel: yeah, but we'll come back to the classification system
<pep> I am for drupal too
<pep> using it for ubuntu-be now
<Flannel> Like I said, I'm going to ignore the frontend, since I'm very much against using a general use CMS for this.
<Flannel> that way you won't have to listen to my ranting, and I'll get some work done ;)
<pep> well elt's not keep it latent and talk about it now, wy not drupal, what would you use? a custom cms?
<pep> let's*
<pep> or something like that specialised cms for libraries and such... forgot the name
<Flannel> I think writing a custom site will be a whole lot faster than kluding something into a CMS
<hubuntu> Ok flannel
<pep> we talked about it
<Flannel> But, that's just me
<hubuntu> But since we are to maintain it too t makes more sense to use drupal, and to get it canonical hosted
<Flannel> It just seems to me like theres not a whole lot of site around the content, all its going to be is "search DB, display results, show details of results, upload new stuff"
<pep> I think we should use drupal... it's not going to be much harder to immplement something in a drupal site than in a custom one is it? and drupal offers many ready-made modules...
<hubuntu> Like the openID
<pep> Flannel: +comments + openid + profiles (stats about number of uploads, etc...)
<Flannel> pep: When you use drupal, or some other thing like that, you wind up spending more time getting your code to play nicely with the CMS than writing your code to begin with
<pep> and acess levels to are easy to manage
<pep> mhh yeah I see your point...
<Flannel> Do we want to allow comments?
<pep> definitely
<hubuntu> I am not sure
<Flannel> as far as profiles go, we use LP IDs, and we're done.
<hubuntu> Yes, LP is the way
<pep> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Moomex-Theme?content=57063&PHPSESSID=86fe2ce23770349ab3464545a6a72e90 I like this concept...
<hubuntu> OpenID is the *only * way to log in
<pep> ah yes hubuntu but openid doesn't exclude profiles 
<pep> not a list of uploaded things per user? or something like that?
<Flannel> OpenID doens't mean just LP though
<hubuntu> That way everybody is bounded to LPP
<Flannel> hubuntu: LP isn't the only place to get openID
<pep> but openID is just the login hubuntu...
<Flannel> With open ID you can use *any* open ID provider.  Unless we're going to limit it to LP only.
<hubuntu> I know, but LP should be the only provider
<Flannel> Which we may wish to do.
<pep> hubuntu: we use openID at ubuntu-be, but it's normal openID, not just LP: www.ubuntu-be.org/drupal
<Flannel> but thn we're not really using "open ID" but just "launchpad accounts"
<hubuntu> That way all reg users are LP nusers and have upload *rights*
<pep> yes Flannel that's it
<pep> we're using both
<pep> launchpad accounts through openID
<Flannel> which is fine, we just shouldn't say "open ID"
<pep> yes, technically you're right
<pep> :)
<hubuntu> LP OpenID
<hubuntu> ;)
<Flannel> hubuntu: No, just LP accounts
<pep> yes
<pep> lp accounts, via openID provider restriction
<hubuntu> Flacoste will work with us in the integration
<pep> whatever :)
<Flannel> We're not trying to buzzword compliant, ditch the "open ID" as it'll just confuse, because we're not actually doing the open ID thing
<pep> whatever was for my phrase 
<pep> ;)
<pep> we are doing openID too Flannel 
<pep> why not?
<pep> I thought we are lp accounts, via openID provider restriction
<hubuntu> We are doing it limiting it to LP
<Flannel> pep: If we restrict it to LP accounts only, it's not really open ID.  but a limited version
<pep> sure
<hubuntu> Many openID relying sites do such things
<pep> then we can call it differently, but we should use the technology
<pep> call it launchpadID
<Flannel> Seems like that completely defeats the purpose of open ID if you have to sign up with *their* site's open ID
<Flannel> I agree.  Its a LP ID login
<pep> yes
<hubuntu> I believe we should use LP OpenID, but we can discuss that later... The name can be decided later
<pep> lpID
<hubuntu> LP ID will do forme
<pep> we will have to modify the openID module, to make an lpID one
<pep> good
<Flannel> We could even possibly check/require the CoC to be signed
<pep> Flannel: yes, we can check that through lp accounts
<Flannel> pep: No, I know its possible.  Not sure if we want to make that restriction.
<pep> as well as preferred languages for showing only relevant documents to the users
<Flannel> But, that's... not really important at this point in time
<pep> I don' want to make that restriction od CoC personally
<hubuntu> True. And a LP account should suffice
<pep> yes
<pep> but4
<Flannel> pep: signing the CoC requires them to behave and have knowledge of the rules
<Flannel> but, I'm not really heart set on it
<Flannel> just an idea
<hubuntu> The language trick will be done either through browser recognition of languazge and/or with the flags
<pep> what we can add, on our site, is maybe the list of submitted material, and of pending material so ppl can see if their document is in the database yet... thought about that in the train...
<hubuntu> We could require it for members of our project
<Flannel> hubuntu: does LP not provide a preferred language profile bit?
<pep> hubuntu: no... if we translate, we must show to the user all the languages he translates in lp, no? so in the downlad list there are only docs in the preferred anguages (not talking about site interface)
<hubuntu> It does, but i'm not sure  yhou can get that from their OpenID implemengtation
<hubuntu> AFAIK it only gives the user name
<pep> we don't care, we just *look* in the lp account that's associated..
<pep> it's accessible no?
<Flannel> yeah, we can grep the site, I'm not sure its available.
<pep> we've got the user name so we'll get the info about the account with no problems I think
<hubuntu> Rosetta gives option to translate from any available language to(already translated) to any other
<Flannel> Oh, you can set it.  Its new though
<hubuntu> It's been there for 6 months I think
<pep> hubuntu: yes, but you are rarely going to translate in languages that aren't in your preferred ones I think :/
<hubuntu> Yes but translating from them ;)
<hubuntu> Which language you translate to itÃ¥s a totally different issue
<pep> mhh.. I'm not translating into a language I don't know
<pep> I do english-french, french-english, german -french, etc.. with my preferred languages only
<hubuntu> Of course , but you get info on what is available in flemish and then you decide what to translate to
<pep> yes
<pep> that's why you see all preferred languages in the "download" list... where's the problem?
<hubuntu> Let's just think about it. The language thing should be a problem
<Flannel> shouldn't
<hubuntu> Np
<pep> ok
<hubuntu> Thx F
<hubuntu> Meisok are you there?
<pep> it is because I fear that you have dozens of entries of the same popular document in all languages... I mean, how else do you want to show the docs in the list?
<pep> nah he's still eating
<meisok> hubuntu: yes :)
<pep> oh
<pep> haha
<Flannel> pep: We'll be able to sort that out easily enough, don't worry
<pep> I was whois'ing you ;)
<hubuntu> Flannel when it comes to the backend
<hubuntu> How will it work in practice?
<Flannel> hubuntu: What do you mean
<hubuntu> I mean we will have a place for the drupal code
<hubuntu> And a place for the diy rfepo content
<hubuntu> 2 diff places
<Flannel> One repo for the content, and a separate one for the website, yes.
<hubuntu> Drupal and backend code
<Flannel> backedn code is going to have to be python, I believe.
<hubuntu> Ok, bot a project under LP, right?
<Flannel> but, thats not relevant
<hubuntu> Django?
<Flannel> hubuntu: no.  Just that libbzr is in python
<hubuntu> Maybe we could move the wholething to django and move along with the loc-django-website team
<hubuntu> Ok
<Flannel> No, I dont think thats necessary
<hubuntu> What about bzr upload?
<hubuntu> Will we be using it?
<Flannel> What do you mean bzr upload?
<pep> we have to think long-term... if we're successful we will have a big load..
<Flannel> like regular bzr interface? yeah.  We'll have bzr accessible via bzr, and also the website
<hubuntu> I'll shoow you
<Flannel> hubuntu: as far as "separate projects" the backend stuff will be owned by the spreadubuntu project, and the content itself can be managed by the marketing team.  Those can be the main branches, as far as how LP handles bzr repo creation... I'm less sure.
<hubuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/diy#head-d7a37f4ed2cf354f341731e9c4ce5f6e376dd495
<hubuntu> See bzr upload
<hubuntu> It could be an idea.. I don't know
<Flannel> hubuntu: No, I don'tthink we'll need that.
<hubuntu> Ok
<pep> yes, I like the idea that the content itself, launchpad-ownership speaking, would be handled by the marketing team.
<pep> well, "owned"
<hubuntu> No and yes
<hubuntu> we are thw MT too
<pep> yes
<Flannel> What?
<Flannel> Oh
<hubuntu> So it should be under the SU team
<Flannel> hubuntu: No.  Because then anyone who wants to upload to it will be required to join this team.  Doesn't make sense
<pep> but the documents themselves are still *for* the marketing team's goals
<hubuntu> And members of the SU team being ubunteros and part of the MT
<hubuntu> Uploading doesn't require anything else than An LP account
<pep> Flannel: no need to be in the marketing team tp upload!
<pep> no?
<pep> to*
<pep> any LP account
<pep> imo
<Flannel> pep: To a BZR branch, yes.
<Flannel> pep: or rather, to an official bzr branch, yes.
<pep> ok, but what's with the submit form on the site?
<pep> that comes to us and we upload it?
<pep> then ok.
<Flannel> For example, the SU team will "own" the branch that the SU code is in.  We are the only ones with bzr access
<Flannel> pep: No, it automatically uploads
<Flannel> but, for anyone who wants to just use bzr, instead of going through the site, they need to be a member of Marketing Team
<pep> Ok, yes... but persons taht are not in the marketing team can submit of course, they just need a launchpad account to sign in :)
<Flannel> Or rather, need to be a member of the team that owns the branch
<pep> ok Flannel
<pep> yes
<pep> then ok.
<Flannel> Which is why it makes sense for that to eb the marketing team
<Flannel> and not spreadubuntu
<pep> exactly
<pep> but of course a team, from SpreadUbuntu will manage/admin this
<pep> but that's not the point
<pep> hubuntu: what do you think?
<pep> uploading to the site will still be open to any LP account
<Flannel> because the commits themselves will go through libbzr on the site
<hubuntu> Mmm,  have you tried leonov Flannel?
<pep> yes leonov is a good thing, I checked it out a bit :)
<hubuntu> A client (qt&gtk) for LP
<Flannel> hubuntu: No
<hubuntu> Can a official brand be accessed by people outside of any given project?
<hubuntu> I mean commited to
<pep> no
<Flannel> hubuntu: but the website will take care of that for website uploads
<Flannel> hubuntu: Its only for direct bzr commits
<pep> but they just need to join the marketing team to do it if we do it this way, so ppl who really want to use leonov can do without problems as the marketing team is not moderated
<hubuntu> I believe the bzr access should not be restricted in any way
<pep> it's not possible hubuntu
<pep> I think
<Flannel> hubuntu: you can *get* stuff without a problem.  You can't commit without being a member AFAIK
<hubuntu> Is that possible? I mean as long as it involves an LP account
<Flannel> but still, MT membership is as simple as clicking a link
<pep> yeah
<pep> it's an open team
<hubuntu> But it may be too much for new comers
<Flannel> hubuntu: OR if youre really against it, just do it through the website
<Flannel> hubuntu: Whats wrong with the website then?
<pep> so website upload without marketing team membership, else you do what you want
<hubuntu> Then it's cool
<hubuntu> If you manage to set up bzr and commit to the branch you should be able to click on the membership icon;)
<pep> hehe yeah
<pep> it means you know your way around LP
<Flannel> eh, or at least know a little ;)
<Flannel> remember, if you're committing to bzr yourself, it means you're setting up your own metafiles and stuff.
<pep> pff yeah, that should be super-vised :/
<Flannel> Its not going to be difficult.  And we could always write a desktop script to do it.
<Flannel> but, those are extras we don't need to be concerned with at the moment
<pep> jupp
<pep> no
<hubuntu> Indeed
<pep> back to the classification system? I will process the log... hubuntu what do you think *must* be in?
<pep> or if you think it is +- covered we can move on
<Flannel> pep: I think anything we haven't covered will make itself apparent via testing
<hubuntu> I like your classification system
<hubuntu> But exclude the comments
<pep> from the profile page?
<hubuntu> We should instead have a system for giving points to some material
<pep> I thought that would push to approvements, as we have a version control system
<pep> that too
<hubuntu> Having a rating systema
<pep> I thought about description, (little pic?), rating, comments and number of downloads to judge a document
<pep> for the user
<hubuntu> Yes a social based system a la youtube/flickr/amazon
<pep> jupp
<pep> it pushes evolution In my sense
<pep> approvement
<hubuntu> ;)
<pep> like in gnomelook
<hubuntu> But having categories (newly added, best rated, most downlaoded) should help too
<BHSPitLappy> What are we talking about, exactly?
<Flannel> those are all classifications that are dealt with on the site side, not the backend side.
<pep> mhh.. that you can sort by when you click on column titles in my scheme... as date, rating and umber of dls are criteeria..)
<pep> Flannel: that's for the front-end yes
<pep> sorry :)
<Flannel> pep: No need to be sorry. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
<Flannel> That's more or less, an entirely different set of tables in the DB
<pep> yes, these things stay on the site
<pep> and version is updated by bzr I suppose...
<Flannel> pep: Well, the otehr DB is on the site too.
<pep> well yes, I mean not inthe metafile
<Flannel> BHSPitLappy: The DIY part of spreadubuntu
<pep> actually all dynamic things, obviously :)
<pep> BHSPitLappy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu/
<Flannel> We ought to move that to /Projects/SpreadUbuntu at some point
<pep> yeah
<pep> but the old one was still there ;Ã 
<pep> :)
 * Flannel doesn't mention the fact that he hasn't written the "how to start a project" stuff.
<pep> we can do it fo rme, just have to put the old as a subpage of the new ine
<pep> one*
<Flannel> pep: yeah, or move it to /Projects/Spreadubuntu/Old
<Flannel> hmmm, I think thats what you said.
<pep> jupp
<pep> my bad
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-07-20
<Flannel> pep: You can make sure you don't miss subpages with [[Navigation macro in the wiki too
<Flannel> Or, whomever goes about moving it
<hubuntu> Not sure about moving it
<pep> mhh
<pep> why hubuntu
<pep> ?
<pep> Flannel: I'm not sure I see what you mean with the [[Navigation macro, you can move it if you wish...
<Flannel> That is... [[Nagivation(children)]] that'll give you a TOC of children which you can make sure all get moved (more importantly, none get left behind)
<hubuntu> Cause is impportant to keep in mind that it's not only the diy part
<Flannel> hubuntu: What does that have to do with moving it under /Projects?
<pep> Ok, hubuntu we can put it in /SpreadUbuntu/OldProjects/.. 
<hubuntu> Donno
<Flannel> pep: Yeah, I dont mind doing it
<Flannel> It'll just be /Projects/SpreadUbuntu/Old/*
<Flannel> instead of /Projects/Spreadubuntu
<Flannel> which means we can move our /Spreadubuntu into /Projects where it should be
<pep> yes
<pep> but we'll move diy-website too while we're at it
<Flannel> Yeah
<Flannel> I was just thinking that
<pep> so /SpreadUbuntu/Old/SpreadUbuntu and SU/Old/diy-website, well you see what I mean :)
<Flannel> Mhmm
<Flannel> That way we don't lose the content, but still can cleanup the /MT section
<pep> jupp
<pep> it's good because they did a lot of work on it
<hubuntu> Maybe /mt/projects/su ? Was that the proposition?
<pep> yes, that will be where the current su will be
<pep> let flannel do you'll like it ^^"
<hubuntu> Oki
<hubuntu> :)
<Flannel> hubuntu: yeah, we'll move the current /MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu to /MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu and the old stuff to /MarketingTeam/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/Old/*
<hubuntu> Well any other discussion issues?
<pep> mh let me think
<pep> sugui?
<hubuntu> Meisok sigues ahi?
<meisok> yes
<hubuntu> Sugui is a wonderful idea, but we will most likely have to wait to fully implement it
<hubuntu> It will be leonov with many plugins and specific for the repo project on LP
<hubuntu> Leonov is a client for LP, so you can do everything you can do in LP but in a client. A lot of things can be done offline too. It is geniaal
<pep> ahh yes, got to decide about a logo too... we've got this http://dicidailleurs.houbsi.org/uploads/file/su-pre.png and http://dicidailleurs.houbsi.org/uploads/file/SU-pre_2.png 
<hubuntu> It's meisoks idea
<pep> Personally I like a world in the middle, but only one second layer, of either normal discs or small ubuntu logos.
<pep> (sorry for interrupting, I like sugui, even if it's a little premature :-) but it's really good.)
<Flannel> I like the fractal idea.
<hubuntu> Fractal? Donno understand
<pep> in the logo I think...
<hubuntu> Ah ok
<Flannel> I like the big logo
<Flannel> (on the second link)
<pep> I think it's too heavy..
<Flannel> don't like the font of the first one.  I think I like the second and third words on the first link
<pep> and too triangular..
<Flannel> pep: Perhaps the middle logo on the second link?
<Flannel> only one layer deep?
<pep> yes same for the writing
<pep> yes exactly
<pep> I like that one
<pep> middle logo second link
<pep> hubuntu? meisok? :)
<pep> anyone else?
<Flannel> I don't think we really need to decide on a logo at the current time ;)
<hubuntu> Im watching
<pep> nah just taking ideas Flannel
<hubuntu> Surfing in a n810 and edge.. Takes time to nsee the link
<pep> if anyone's got another subject go ahead
<pep> hehe
<hubuntu> Agree w logo in link 2
<hubuntu> 2ndlogo in w<@ link
<hubuntu> Logo 2 in link 2
<hubuntu> Like ubuntu-title as font
<hubuntu> The color play in lines 3 and 4 in link 1 is nice
<hubuntu> Meisok?
<meisok> i like all :P
<hubuntu> ;)
<meisok> but you can modify or create new ideas
<meisok> *but I can...
<hubuntu> Nice work as a start meisok and pep
<hubuntu> Good to have designers with us
<pep> heh, meisok is the designer :)
<hubuntu> Graphical designers
<pep> I'm just ful of too many ideas
<meisok> :)
<hubuntu> Ok... Now we have the classification system, the backend, the front end
<hubuntu> Shall nwe register the project?
<pep> well yes, classification system in the works
<pep> hubuntu: at launchpad?
<pep> uhn
<pep> yes :)
<pep> the spreadubuntu project
<hubuntu> And can somebody explain how branches and bzr works?
<pep> diy-spreadubuntu will be deleted hopefully :/
<hubuntu> Yes, for the site code and the repo
<hubuntu> Site involving diy and everything else we wll be up to
<pep> I will pull the site code over once I've installed the couples of last modules
<hubuntu> We should pull it  once in a while
<hubuntu> The db too
<pep> yes
<pep> I'll take care of it as I have ftp access, just e-mail me if you want it to be pulled for any reason
<pep> mhh
<hubuntu> :)L
<Flannel> hubuntu: Register what project?
<Flannel> hubuntu: we've already got one registered
<hubuntu> I mean two branches (site code and site content(as in the repo))
<hubuntu> Or register another for the repo and the material exclusively
<pep> well taht has time realy
<Flannel> We shouldn't register an official material one just yet, we can use the same one we're using for the code
<pep> not exactly the same
<pep> it will be deleted as it is under diy-spreadubuntu right now :/
<Flannel> Because we'll want well defined test data
<Flannel> pep: we have lp/spreadubuntu
<pep> ah yes
<pep> the old one sorry -_-
<hubuntu> Ok
<hubuntu> It sounds like the best approach till we go live
<Flannel> Eh, even functional.
<Flannel> I just don't want to open stuff up to commits before we have a somewhat working site.  Since anyone who commits will have a moving target for structure/meta information/etc
<pep> true
<hubuntu> True
<hubuntu> It's good to have people that knows their way in this team
<hubuntu> I really believe we are going to achieve great results
<pep> hehe
<hubuntu> You guys are just good at what you do, which makes us agood as a team
<hubuntu> Ok i have an off-topic question
<pep> bring it on
<hubuntu> I'm woeking in a  video scrfipt for an ubuntu commerciaal
<hubuntu> I'a goot actors, post production(/animation experts, profesional photographers anand the eager to make the most succesful viral videpo forubuntu
<pep> (by the way this is our testserver if you didn't know: http://spreadubuntu.houbsi.org
<hubuntu> We are 5 days away and are to work on the script
<hubuntu> 5 days on vacation..
<hubuntu> :)
<hubuntu> Any ideas of what a ubuntu promo video should have?
<hubuntu> I believe it should show ubuntu in the background of life
<hubuntu> But not be central, just shown ubjuntu as part of people's lifes
<hubuntu> (Children, grandpas, students, professionals, anyone/anywhere)
<pep> depends what message you want to transmit.... accessible, complete, reliable...
<hubuntu> I want to transmit that Ubuntu is just a part of life for some, and it could be part of yours too
<pep> credibilising the use of linux
<pep> =)
<Flannel> hubuntu: You should talk to meoblast001 if you ever see him
<hubuntu> Nickserv
<hubuntu> Hhh
<hubuntu> Thx Flannel
<hubuntu> Does he work with video/promotiion?
<Flannel> I... think so.
<hubuntu> Know where he hangs?
<Flannel> He was here last night
<hubuntu> Ok... I'll look for him later.
<Flannel> er... 17-13 hours ago
<pep> Last seen  : Jul 19 10:09:20 2008 (13 hours, 44 minutes, 46 seconds ago)
<hubuntu> I saw it pep
<hubuntu> ;) Thx
<pep> and if you were asking for his location, I suppose Ohio, trusting his IP
<hubuntu> Didn't check that... ;)
<pep> heh
<pep> got nothing to do at 2 am
<pep> :)
<meisok> hehe
<Flannel> Alright.  I've moved the stuff to /Old/ and the new stuff under /Projects.  The old SpreadUbuntu is now /MT/Projects/SpreadUbuntu/Old/Spread, because for some reason /SpreadUbuntu wouldn't work
<pep> maybe too many steps to jump
<Flannel> I don
<Flannel> I don't think so, since it's subpage went to /SpreadUbuntu/Whatever fine
<Flannel> but, its no big deal either way
<Flannel> I've updated /Projects/ I don't know what else might need to eb updated though
<pep> ah right I see
<Flannel> Just sort of odd
<hubuntu> Ood?
<hubuntu> Are we gOod?
<pep> still to prove ;-
<pep> ;)
<hubuntu> Flannel, pep, meisok and everyone else who is reading (cody ;) thanks. I'm off
<pep> bye
<hubuntu> We should think of the blueprints/task part of the LP project
<hubuntu> And how to continue (use cases documented normally in the wiki)
<hubuntu> Ok.. Good night/day
<pep> good idea  the use cases
<pep> gdnight
<Flannel> Bye hubuntu
<meisok> gdnight
<meisok> all..
<hubuntu> Bye people's
<hubuntu> Asomen
<pep> bye meisok
<hubuntu> ;)
<pep> (everyone's leaving :-)
<meisok> ciao! pep hubuntu  Flannel  ;)
<pep> let's keep saying goodbye for another hour
<pep> plz
<pep> bye hubuntu
<pep> sleep well meisok
<pep> xD
<pep> (sorry :p)
<pep> I'm tired :)
<meisok> XD
<pep> was online until 5am yesterday and got up at half past 7 \o/
<meisok> yeah!!
<hubuntu> 5 almost but stood up 1130 ;)
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> hi ppl
<Flannel> Howdy meoblast001
<meoblast001> Flanne: hi how is life going
<meoblast001> Flannel rather
<Flannel> meoblast001: Going fine.  How about yourself?
<meoblast001> Flannel: same old crappy life
<meoblast001> hola
<meoblast001> BHSPitLappy
<BHSPitLappy> hi?
<meoblast001> hi =D
<meoblast001> Flannel: so what's been going on here previos to me joining?
<Flannel> meoblast001: Not a whole lot.  We had a discussion this afternoon regarding spreadubuntu details
<meoblast001> Flannel: whats spreadubuntu?
<Flannel> Its one of the projects the marketing team is currently working on.  A website that is a repository for Ubuntu materials (posters, flyers, images, etc) and an information site to new users (what Ubuntu is, how to get it, etc)
<meoblast001> Flannel: oh
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-07-13
<johnc4510> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available:
<johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue150
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-07-19
<phurl> hey all
<phurl> anyone want to man an ubuntu table on august 29/30
<phurl> in prishtina
<phurl> anyone want to man an ubuntu table on august 29/30 in prishtina
<johnc4510> The  newest issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available: 
<johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue151
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-07-19
<akgraner> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here:
<akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue202
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-07-21
<Ddorda> hey there
<Ddorda> quesh_i: when moving to new theme? and is there going to be full translation option?
#ubuntu-marketing 2011-07-19
<pleia2> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue224
#ubuntu-marketing 2013-07-19
<s1lence> Flannel, no canonical in here?
<Flannel> Wow, I had no idea this channel had so few people.
<Flannel> s1lence: There may be canonical folks here, but this is the community team, not a place for cannonical efforts. Correct.
<s1lence> Flannel, any idea how i could alert somebody at canonical that their publicity images for ubuntu edge were mirrored to imgur?
<s1lence> ie. so they can file a takedown request if they need to. :/
<Flannel> s1lence: the only real canonical presence on IRC is #canonical-sysadmin, but I think an email (don't know where) would be more robust.
<s1lence> ugh
<s1lence> oh wait i think i may have canonical's legal team email somewhere
<s1lence> shoot
<s1lence> Flannel, I just messaged xnox and it looks like it's under control 
#ubuntu-marketing 2013-07-20
<abc> hi
<abc> anyone can help me?
