#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-28
<sivang> kiko-afk:  a sec
<lifeless> LaserJock: calendar updates
<lifeless> LaserJock: for instance.
<ogra> ... the dead artwork dream ....
<StrikeForce> can I have someone look at the packages I've uploaded please :)
<doko_> ajmitch: pong
<LaserJock> dang it, missed the C-C meeting
<dholbach> good night everybody
<crimsun> 'night, daniel
<dholbach> night daniel :)
<ajmitch> sigh, datacentre issues again for work
* ajmitch twiddles thumbs waiting for servers to be available again
<sistpoty> StrikeForce: i just went over cue2toc
<LaserJock> sistpoty: any chance of getting you to look at plotdrop for me? It's pretty quick
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ok, will do... after a cigarette ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: thanks
<ajmitch> all these smokers ;)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: lol, merging can do that to you
<LaserJock> or linux in general for that matter
<LaserJock> I tend to drink a lot of soda while I'm working with linux since I'm not a smoker
<raphink> anyone awake to review konq-kim, konq-utf8 and kio-sword ?
<raphink> :)
<tseng> oh man
<tseng> the pbuilder on my desktop is for hoary
<raphink> loool
<tseng> or maybe i have none
<raphink> not very useful ;)
<raphink> except for backports ;)
<tseng> sources.list says breezy
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> how about /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc ?
<tseng> yes fixing all offenders to dapper
<raphink> don't
<raphink> dapper pbuilder doesn't work lately
<tseng> ?
<raphink> it doesn't build
* tseng knows what he is doing.
<tseng> dont worry
<raphink> hmm ok
<raphink> :)
* raphink had to downgrade his pbuilder to breezy because dehelper didn't work in dapper pbuilder anymore
<LaserJock> raphink: I think making a dapper pbuilder from scratch is not working right now
<tseng> that is fixed
<raphink> yes LaserJock
<raphink> tseng: sinc ewhen?
<raphink> I tried it today and it didn't work
<tseng> since gcj upload earlier today
<raphink> ok
<raphink> :)
<tseng> at least someone attempted to fix it
<tseng> ive not tested it
<tseng> will let you know.
<tseng> 10-20 minutes
<raphink> ty
<LaserJock> when did it go bad? I've been using dapper pbuilder for  a few days
<tseng> mayhaps yesterday
<raphink> LaserJock: yesterday I think
<tseng> when doko split gcj from gcc
<tseng> then gcj ftbfs
<tseng> something like that.
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<raphink> well
<raphink> bed time for me :)
<raphink> 'night
<LaserJock> I see a new gcj went through dapper-changes
<tseng> i alluded to that
<LaserJock> ah, ok. I'm just behind
<tseng> lets not get hung up on this package :)
<tseng> ill tell you if it WFM
<sistpoty> LaserJock: done with plotdrop... only some minor cosmetics needed
<sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now. g'night
<LaserJock> ok, can somebody tell me where to put the year of the copyright?
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's the baby?
<ajmitch> sigh, I have to merge 1 of my own packages
* ajmitch will have to demand a sync
<tseng> demand is right
<ajmitch> nag, badger, annoy..
<Lathiat> breath fire
<tseng> badger badger badger
<ajmitch> well I have to get f-spot updated in debian
<ajmitch> so I can probably sync from experimental for that one
<ajmitch> jordi requested a build for experimental again
<ajmitch> so I'd better do it
<Lathiat> err i mean, quack
<Lathiat> :)
<ajmitch> Lathiat: we all know it's a dragon
* Lathiat checks the fridge
<Lathiat> 57% duck
<LaserJock> how do you know what the copyright year is?
<Lathiat> the year you wrote it ?
<LaserJock> when I'm packaging?
<Lathiat> when your referring to the packge license?
<Lathiat> check what htey claim it is
<Lathiat> its often a range
<LaserJock> but what if there isn't any
<LaserJock> the COPYING file is just the GPL
<ajmitch> do the source files not have a GPL header?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: they just reference the COPYING file >:(
<LaserJock> I have pretty good contact with the author. Is it something he should change?
<ajmitch> how annoying
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> he should have the 3 paragraphs & a proper copyright statement for each source file
<LaserJock> for now is there anything I can do?
<ajmitch> bug him
<ajmitch> there are probably plenty of packages without complete copyright info
<LaserJock> but wouldn't it require a new release? I mean it is the only thing holding me up right now from getting it in
<bob2223> I package that I made was recently accepted into debian. I would like to help get it into ubuntu, but I cannot get my GPG key signed for at least another month. Is it still possible to help?
<ajmitch> bob2223: if it's in debian now it shoudl get synced into ubuntu
<ajmitch> what's the name of it?
<LaserJock> tseng: did you dapper pbuilder work?
<tseng> no its still broken
<tseng> in lots of interesting ways
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I won't update mine yet
<bmonty> LaserJock: baby is fine...he is fussy tonight
<bmonty> I'm working on my ubuntu-spy program now :)
<LaserJock> bmonty: ? what's that?
<bmonty> to test all the ubuntu archive mirrors and find the fastest one
<LaserJock> bmonty: cool, except I find a.u.c to be the only one that is updated. Maybe they are working on that though
<bmonty> i hope so :)
<bob2223> ajmitch: stopwatch
<spstarr_home> who do I report a bad GPG key for mirror?
<spstarr_home> W: GPG error: http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com breezy Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5 Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
<ajmitch> bob2223: it only just got in, right?
<bob2223> ajmitch: correct
<bob2223> ajmitch: so I do not have to do anything to Ubuntu-ize it?
<spstarr_home> n/m
<ajmitch> bob2223: you shouldn't have to, some changes might be ncessary
<spstarr_home> n/m its ok
<ajmitch> but since I can't view any package info in debian yet I can't tell
<bob2223> okay
<ajmitch> maybe a .desktop file instead of debian/menu
<bob2223> okay; I will fix that
<bmonty> night all
<LaserJock> is there any good resources on getting Ubuntu changes/bug fixes into Debian?
<LaserJock> I am struggling with how things are run in Debian because I've never really used it
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> gotta love an unbuildable archive :-)
<crimsun> morning, siretart
<siretart> heh, crimsun! :)
<siretart> perfect time on hacking revu2, I guess.
<crimsun> hehe :-)
<crimsun> I wonder what the opinion on HIGifying firefox's dialogs is
<Amaranth> firefox 1.5 dialogs seem much nicer
<Amaranth> otherwise the opinion is probably something like "if you want to maintain firefox, go ahead"
<crimsun> I just remember jdub's presentation, particularly the part on gedit's dialogs
<Amaranth> what presentation?
<crimsun> his badgerbadgerbadger tour presentation; it'll be up shortly
<Amaranth> was he saying gedit dialogs rock?
<crimsun> he outlined some of the HIG changes from earlier versions of GNOME
<Amaranth> shortly doesn't help me if it's after sunday, i'll have to find a way to watch at school
<crimsun> well I'm not jdub, nor was my laptop stolen enroute to UBZ, so I can't speed things along
<Amaranth> yeah, a lot of people were disappointed when he cut the trip short
<Burgundavia> I have heard that nifty things are happening the new_mdi branch of gedit
<Amaranth> i can understand why though, hard to give a presentation when the laptop it was on was stolen
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: gnome-vfs support, for one
<Amaranth> so opening files from nautilus doesn't get you a read-only file
<Amaranth> oh, and they use the IE/Firefox yellow info bar thing to show loading files and such, since it's async now
<Lathiat> yeh it ried that out its pretty cool
<sivang> Good morning
<crimsun> re sivang
<sivang> yo crimsun , I'm trying to bet today if or if not I am going to have time to do some merges from work , it's started to be an interesting game ...
<sivang> morning siretart
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hellas
<dholbach> hey daniel
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<dholbach> hi reinhard :)
<siretart> dholbach: now I'm preparing my first 'main' upload and what happens: dapper is so broken that if fails to but nearly anything ;)
<dholbach> rock'n'roll - welcome to main :)
<siretart> but it wasn't me! I swear!
<siretart> *g*
<Nafallo> please give me mailman :-P
<siretart> Nafallo: what is with mailman?
<siretart> apropos mailman
* Nafallo thinks he will bring 512MB RAM pour mois.
<siretart> dholbach: did jdub answer?
<Nafallo> dholbach: was that correct spelling on the last two words btw? :-)
<\sh> just updated my laptop profile to flight-1
<dholbach> siretart: he always showed up for some minutes - i mailed him
<siretart> Nafallo: I think it is without 's'
<siretart> so he is still busy. no wonder
<Nafallo> oh, it is.
* Nafallo will get his server to stop swapping ;-)
<\sh> on breezy...the gcc3.4 compiler suite is not on the shipping cd?
<raphink> o_O
<raphink> I advocated my own package o_O that shouldn't be possible!
<raphink> Riddell: I just removed an unused file from konq-kim. can you advocate it again please ?
<herve_> hello
<dholbach> hi herve_
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o lifeless]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o lifeless]  by lifeless
<\sh> [13:28]  <\sh> libquicktime transition
<\sh> [13:29]  <\sh> libquicktime1 is renamed to libquicktime0
<dholbach> yeah... that looked rather braindead to me
<StevenK> Blink. A SOVER being decremented?
<herve_> maybe it was incremented on one bit
<crimsun> hey, if it works, hit it
<herve_> so it came back to 0
<crimsun> it's just like freetype in the opposite direction!
<\sh> just uploaded :=
<\sh> siretart: http://revu.tauware.de/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/9
<StevenK> Hurray! My first bug about merging in a new debian version.
<StevenK> However, do I need to mail keyring@ubuntu.com to get myself added, or upload@ubuntulinux.org, or both?
* StevenK is confused.
<crimsun> StevenK: to upload to Ubuntu?
<StevenK> crimsun: Yup.
<crimsun> StevenK: you'll have to go through the MOTU process (become a member, contribute, then become a MOTU), but it'll be much easier for you since you're already a DD
<StevenK> I'm trying to contribute, I've done one merge.
<StevenK> (With more planned, just want to get one done first.)
<dholbach> somebody can sponsor the upload for you
<crimsun> yep, just document them on your wiki page, slap the debdiffs up, and someone will upload for you
<StevenK> debdiff between my new version and Debian, or the last Ubuntu version?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads will tell you, how to get your mail address whitelisted (so you get katie's mail)
<crimsun> the last Ubuntu version
<crimsun> (the last Ubuntu version might be the Debian version)
<siretart> StevenK: did you attach your debdiff to the malone bugreport?
<StevenK> I haven't gotten that far yet.
* StevenK wonders if upload@ubuntulinux.org is a person or a bot.
<dholbach> StevenK: a person :)
<dholbach> as a DD, you might have got in contact with him already :)
<StevenK> Heh, is it elmo?
<dholbach> :)
* StevenK grins.
<dholbach> just tell him, that you want to work with the motus and sign the mail
<dholbach> that should be about it
<Mithrandir> StevenK: DDs are generally fast-tracked through most of the MOTU stuff, though, so they're given upload priviledges quite quickly.
<dholbach> and thanks a lot for working with us :)
<StevenK> Mithrandir: What, the whole "Ahh, if you can break uploads to Debian, you may as well to Ubuntu as well." ? :-P
<zakame> hi all
<Mithrandir> StevenK: more or less, yes.  And the NM process is generelly thorough enough that it doesn't make much sense to force DDs to go through a basic packaging course again.
<dholbach> StevenK: to the motu team, it matters, that you're technically up to scratch and you work nicely with the team...
<dholbach> people who are motivtated get through that process pretty quick
<crimsun> it's essentially "oh, you're a DD, *stamp*"
<StevenK> Whee. I knew this dusty @d.o address would pay off someday. :-P
<zakame> can some motu please rebuild gnubiff and review malone 4635 's debdiff? thanks :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4635: common (Ubuntu) - logilab-common: merge new debian version Fix req. for: logilab-common (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4635
* StevenK throws an entire Slayer album at amaroK.
<herve_> bye
<StevenK>   zsh: segmentation fault  mutt
<StevenK> Wheeee!
<siretart> segfaulting mutt? interesting
* siretart checks zakame's patch
<StevenK> First time I've ever seen it do that.
<StevenK> Ever.
<zakame> siretart: many thanks :)
<siretart> zakame: no chance, archive seems still broken, I cannot build your package
<zakame> siretart: for gnubiff? or for both?
<siretart> zakame: for all packages. debhelper is currently not installable
<zakame> I haven't updated my chroot yet to the latest dapper, so I can still build here :(
<zakame> siretart: po-debconf still blocking?
<StevenK> Ohhhh.
* StevenK makes note to upgrade his dapper chroot.
<siretart> zakame: jepp
<StevenK> Errr. *not* upgrade
<siretart> StevenK: better dont ;)
<siretart> ah. right :)
<StevenK> Yes. Brain moves faster than fingers. :-)
<zakame> WAAH
<Nafallo> :-)
* Nafallo totally blames his apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade pbuilder-hooks!
<cyberix> How do I customise and build a package for myself? When I do apt-get source and then dpkg-buildpackage after modifying the source code my changes vanish from code before compilation.
<sivang> cyberix: you need to create a patch
<sivang> cyberix: you can't just go and edit inline the sources you get
<StevenK> Depends on the packaging.
<cyberix> Well apache2 in my case.
<sivang> StevenK: how so?
<StevenK> Sometimes you can, other times your changes get nuked, and other times the source files don't even exist until you unpack a tarball.
<dholbach> cyberix: try to update the changelog (a new entry), run debuild -S (to build a new source package) and build that one
<StevenK> sivang: In linda for example, you can edit unpack.py and debuild it, and your change will be in it.
<StevenK> sivang: In something like alsa-driver which uses dpatch, your changes will probably be nuked.
<crimsun> apache2 doesn't appear to b-d on cdbs or dpatch, at least
<sivang> StevenK: ah, well, my most experience is with autofoo packages
<StevenK> Ahhhh, autobork.
<sivang> StevenK: in which the vast majority you need to create patches
* StevenK nods.
<sivang> StevenK: linda doesn't use a patch tool?
<dholbach> sivang: a lot of packages don't
<siretart> many dd dont like cdbs and/or dpatch
<StevenK> I love dpatch.
<dholbach> sivang: and since we don't want to diverge from debian too much, in those cases, we should try to 1) just patch the source and 2) ship our patch in debian/patches
<sivang> dholbach: so there patching the source always works?
<StevenK> Linda is simple and written in Python. And I'm the author, so I don't need no steenking patch tool. :-)
<zyga> lucas: ping
<siretart> StevenK: you wrote linda? great! I need to talk to you! :)
<lucas> pong
<StevenK> Oh, crap.
* StevenK hides.
<zyga> lucas: I've analyzed the source of that imagemagick bug
<Treenaks> StevenK: In private.
<Treenaks> ;)
<zyga> lucas: it seems to be an upstream isse
<lucas> ok
<dholbach> sivang: you have to be careful, but... i guess so
<StevenK> siretart: What's up?
<siretart> StevenK: no, it's mostly harmless
<siretart> StevenK: For parsing .dsc files, I use your DSCParser class
<zyga> lucas: the accessors for attributes are declared okay, I'd say it's a bug in the image reader, that gets called by blob reader from ruby wrapper
<StevenK> I admit, my parsers spit out some complex structures.
<siretart> StevenK: when I import the DSCParser class directly, it seems to run the __init__.py from linda, and messes with my argument managment
<siretart> StevenK: can I access the parser class directly, circumventing that __init__.py?
<siretart> I just need the parser, and wanted to avoid forking linda
<StevenK> Yes, since DSCParser uses linda.debug and other things.
<lucas> zyga: which version have you tested with ?
<siretart> so you suggest forking?
<zyga> lucas: I didn't test it (no rails either)
<lucas> ok
<zyga> lucas: I've only read the source
<lucas> there's version 1.9.3 in debian
<zyga> lucas: it might be some obscure image bug as well
<lucas> we should see if it fixes the bug
<zyga> anyway let's wait for the reporter to respond
<lucas> but let's wait for a test script
<zyga> right
<lucas> yeaj
<lucas> yeah
<zyga> :-)
* zyga gets back to coding
<StevenK> siretart: Right, the problem is in the RFC822Parser. If you rip out the 'from linda.debug import dprint' and delete or comment out the 3 or so dprint calls, it then shouldn't drag in linda.__init__
<StevenK> I so need to fix it so calling linda.__init__ isn't such a pain.
<lucas> zyga: I don't like those rails-related bug reports
<lucas> it always takes a lot of time before the reporter finally sends a test script that works
<StevenK> Whee. debdiff generates patches that look like crap.
<siretart> StevenK: okay. this means I need to copy the RFC822Parser and dsc.py files and rip out the dprints.
<StevenK> siretart: Just RFC822Parser. DSCParser doesn't use dprint.
<zyga> lucas: I don't have rails installed and I know rubt too little to play with it, I can only read the source for obvious mistakes :)
<StevenK> siretart: And thanks, I've written a TODO item to make linda.__init__() not suck so hard. :-)
<siretart> StevenK: I have to thank :)
<StevenK> I'll probably just move the CLParser call to bootstrap.
* siretart doesnt get why you need an CLParser instance that early
<siretart> StevenK: perhaps you could make it a singleton?
<StevenK> siretart: Um?
* StevenK wonders if he really needs to go to all of the trouble of inserting the older Ubuntu changes in debian/changelog
<siretart> StevenK: you could use the MoM output as basis for merging work. in general, it produces nice changelog files
<azeem> StevenK: it'S a matter of taste, I think
<siretart> I agree with azeem
<azeem> of course it also depends whether you actually merged them, I'd say
<StevenK> It more than likely makes the debdiff a little prettier.
<StevenK> Okay, one debdiff.
* StevenK wonders how to put the debdiff on the bug report if the add comment doesn't let me specify a file to upload.
<StevenK> Errr, never mind -- I found the link.
* zakame remembers an Add Attachment on malone
<zyga> lucas: huh
<zyga> lucas: so what has exactly happened with that bug?
<lucas> he installed a rubygem by hand
<lucas> saw the bug
<lucas> and thought it was caused by the ubuntu pacakge
<zyga> so the bug is not in ubuntu, it's in that gem?
<zyga> right
<lucas> whereas he was using the gem
<zyga> k
<zyga> do we close the bug?
<lucas> yup
<lucas> but I can't find where to close it :-)
<zyga> let me look
<Lathiat> you click on the distro name
<Lathiat> e.g.
<Lathiat> Ubuntu
<Lathiat> in the status bit
<zyga> it's fixed already
<lucas> ah fixed = closed ?
<zyga> yes
<lucas> ok
<lucas> so I did it
<zyga> actually it should have been rejected
<zyga> since it's not a bug ;-)
<zyga> k, done :)
<lucas> zyga: I've sent a proposal to the debian-ruby mailing list about how to package libraries
<lucas> are you subscribed to this mailing list ?
<lucas> ah seems it wasn't fixed ;)
<zakame> wb dholbach
<dholbach> re :)
<juliux> wb dholbach
<juliux> dholbach, http://www.juliux.de/linux/gbtcr.txt what can i do?
<juliux> dholbach, can i only write a bug report?
<dholbach> juliux: write a mail to the author - does it crash?
<juliux> dholbach, yes if i click on it crash
<dholbach> write to the author, that's the best
<zakame> hi slomo
<slomo> hi zakame
<juliux> dholbach, ok thanks
<zakame> I'm doing an improved version of lpbugs, now with automatic sourcepkg bugnumber detection for updating :) prolly uploading my baz repo later :D  'tis on perl though, I don't know how to code in python yet :(
<slomo> dholbach: is kiwi now ok? i would review it then again ;)
<dholbach> slomo: yeah, it's better :)
<slomo> dholbach: and the buildds are actually able to build stuff again? :) is it needed to request give-backs for everything that failed before?
<dholbach> no idea
<dholbach> better ask inifinity
<Mithrandir> slomo: infinity is going mass-give-back everything that failed, so please don't bombard him with requests.
<sivang> Mithrandir: what's that give-back process ?
<Mithrandir> sivang: what do you mean?  It's a request to the buildd to retry a package which failed.
<slomo> Mithrandir: ok, thanks... that's what i expected... hm, i'll queue my to-be-cleaned-from-dep-wait request after he've done that ;)
<zakame> mass-give-back...
<sivang> Mithrandir: thanks, just wanted to know what that means.
<aeon17x> *takes a peek in channel anyway*
<zakame> welcome aeon17x
<slomo> dholbach: W: kiwi: script-not-executable ./usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/kiwi/i18n/msgfmt.py
<dholbach> slomo: yeah
<dholbach> slomo: and no manpage
<slomo> dholbach: yes... if you fix the not-executable warning you get my vote... manpage can come later ;)
<dholbach> slomo: merci beaucoup - i'm in a meeting, will do that later
<slomo> dholbach: ok, just notify me :) i'll finish maths for this week now... maybe 30 minutes left and i have much free time for the rest of the week ;)
<dholbach> cool :
<dholbach> :)
<siretart> dholbach: what meeting is currently in -meeting?
<dholbach> siretart: a11y team
<zakame> a11y?
<dholbach> accessibility
<siretart> ah
<zakame> ah
<siretart> thnx
<zakame> I hope debhelper gets back tomorrow :)
<zakame> good night
<StrikeForce> its back now
<StrikeForce> debhelper that is
<StrikeForce> how do I do this 'Would be nice if you could get config.sub/config.guess out of diff.gz'
<siretart> GRRR. I hate marillat :/
<siretart> no diffs to marillat packages in revu2, then
<slomo> why?
<siretart> because he sets his suitename to 'unstable', so my 'apt-get source -t marillat trick won't work
* sivang wonders if it's better to use sbuild or pbuilder, or just build in a dchroot
<\sh> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> \sh: pong
<\sh> dholbach: u r my gnomeinator :)
<\sh> gtkglextmm
<\sh> building in chroot with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage --> ok
<\sh> building in pbuilder --> not ok...he complains in pbuilder about wrong paths in pkg-config for several libs
<dholbach> unfortunately my pbuilder is busted
<dholbach> can you give me the buildlog
<dholbach> else it's quite hard for me to say something useful
<\sh> dholbach: k..moment
<\sh> setting up a local apache here at home :)
<dholbach> and for future reference: the gnome-inator is somebody else :)
<\sh> hehe
<\sh_away> dholbach: http://motuhome.homelinux.net
<dholbach> what does config.log say?
<dholbach> the interesting bits should be at the end?
<\sh> dholbach: hmmm...config.log out of a pbuilder?
<\sh> lets see...i login..
<\sh> strange it is...that the dpkg-buildpackage doesn't complain at all
<siretart> \sh: who offered to setup a bzr trac on tiber? whas this ajmitch?
<\sh> i think so
<siretart> ok
<\sh> strage
<\sh> inside the pbuilder (as login) it works
<\sh> only pbuilder build *.dsc doesn't work
<dholbach> that's REALLY strange
<\sh> yepp
<dholbach> blame it on broken pbuilder :)
<\sh> na
<dholbach> upload it and see if sbuild can cope with it  ;-p
<\sh> hehe k
<dholbach> what are you uploading?
<\sh> gtkglextmm
<dholbach> just the changes for the allocator change?
<\sh> merge + allocator change
<LaserJock> so has the Bug Day started yet?
<dholbach> LaserJock: #ubuntu-bugs :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: aw, thanks
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> hmm..what is the opinion to replace libcurl-ssl-dev? libcurl3-gnutls-dev or libcurl3-ssl-dev?
<\sh> sistpoty / siretart: ping
<ajmitch> morning
<siretart> \sh: pong
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<ajmitch> :)
<\sh> sistpotys script is wrong
<\sh> about new allocator trans
<ajmitch> oh?
<ajmitch> why is that?
<ajmitch> doesn't take into account already fixed packages?
<\sh> adplug e.g. is already transed from debian
* ajmitch hopes we get packages fixed from debian soon
<\sh> yes
<ajmitch> how should his script work?
<\sh> he has to check the binary package names
<ajmitch> drop the packages depending on a newer libstdc++6 ?
<siretart> well, the source for the script is in his home
<\sh> he will appear later i think
<\sh> and others who are depending on c++ like alps-light1 e.g. do need only a recompile
<\sh> we need to be careful with this...and don't confuse our hopefuls
<ajmitch> or the existing MOTUs like me
<ajmitch> who's horribly confused enough as it is
<siretart> ajmitch: didn't you offer to install a bzr aware version of trac on tiber?
<jdong_> there's quite a stir about Mandriva's new "interactive firewall"
<jdong_> looks dbus based with qt-ish frontend
<jdong_> any plans for Universe packages?
<Mithrandir> oh, that sounds like so much crack.
<jdong_> lol, nerdy people want it...
<jdong_> sure it seems like firestarter's enough....
<ajmitch> siretart: yes, thanks for reminding me
<Mithrandir> it's probably like all the windows firewalls where you get popups every five seconds about random programs trying to do evil stuff like DNS lookups.
<ajmitch> jdong_: we already have firewall crack specced
<siretart> hey jdong_
<jdong_> Mithrandir: yeah, pretty much lol
<jdong_> siretart: hey :)
<slomo> hi FireRabbit :)
<FireRabbit> hey :)
<FireRabbit> i've got updated 100% unofficial azureus and limewire packages that i'd like to get merged, if interested (and if someone hasn't already beat me to it)
<slomo> FireRabbit: you could ask siretart to add your gpg key to the revu keyring.... then you can upload your packages to revu for review and when they're ok they probably got uploaded :)
<FireRabbit> slomo, that sounds good.... hey siretart .. you around? ;)
<siretart> FireRabbit: sure
<siretart> ;)
<siretart> FireRabbit: I'm just a bit confused, because we did not diverge from debian for both packages
<siretart> FireRabbit: so what do you mean with 'merged'
<FireRabbit> oh, perhaps debian is out of date then
<siretart> could you please check the debian bts then if there are already whishlist bugs for that?
<FireRabbit> yeah
<FireRabbit> i will find out and report back.
<siretart> thanks a lot
<Seveas> I'm about to do my first upload to revu...
<Seveas> actually second, but the first one b0rked :)
<Seveas> just pbuilder-testing the package now :)
<FireRabbit> is there an ubuntu-specific wishlist, perhaps on launchpad that I could look at?
<slomo> FireRabbit: for what? new packages?
<FireRabbit> yeah
<slomo> FireRabbit: err... i mean packages we don't have but users want ;)
<FireRabbit> right
<slomo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
<FireRabbit> thanks
<slomo> np :)
<slomo> FireRabbit: as you're interested in mono stuff... what about codegen or monouml? ;)
<siretart> monouml? whats that?
<slomo> http://www.monouml.org
<slomo> a tool for creating uml diagrams, generating code from it and generating a diagram from code
<slomo> iirc it supports only class diagrams atm but at least use-case diagrams are also planned
<jpatrick> \sh: could you look at: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1013 please
<Seveas> meh, pbuilder complains :(
<\sh> jpatrick: one thing after another :)
<jpatrick> \sh: course :)
<Seveas> configure: error: failed to find module bonobo.ui
<Seveas> in which package can I find this?
<Seveas> python module bonobo.ui that is
<Seveas> it's not python-gnome2{,-extras}-dev
<lucas> dholbach or ogra: ping
<dholbach> lucas: pong
<dholbach> ogra: unping :)
<lucas> I have a motutools package that works
<lucas> it doesn't do anything yet
<lucas> but I'd like to get as many comments as possible
<lucas> is it possible it gets uploaded to dapper ?
<sivang> lucas: to universe, why not?
<lucas> should I upload it to REVU ?
<dholbach> lucas: yeah, REVU is the right place
<lucas> ok, will do that
<siretart> lucas: I'm sure it will get reviewed quite quickly ;)
<ajmitch> ok, at work now
<lucas> ok, I sent that keyring mail to register as uploader
<siretart> lucas: done
<siretart> (12 seks for a key addition isn't that bad, is it? ;)
<lucas> yup :)
<lucas> ok, uploaded
<lucas> 8 mins is not so bad given that I'm watching real madrid - lyon at the same time ;)
<Seveas> siretart, if a package runs a check for python module bonobo.ui at ./configure time, should I add python-gnome2 to the build deps or patch the configure{,.ac} files?
<lucas> sirestart: I uploaded more than 5 mins ago, but my upload doesn't show up
<lucas> (it might be related to the fact that I uploaded to "unstable" instead of "dapper" ;)
<Kyral> lol
<lucas> (the files are still in /incoming, not /incoming/rejected
<lucas> I uploaded a new version
<lucas> I started with 0.0.1 so I'm in no hurry ;)
<Seveas> any experienced motu around to answer a few questions about ./configure?
<\sh> siretart: i added a rename bug switch to motu-tools...give me 5 mins to merge it to my bzr branch :)
<ajmitch> \sh: cool, I haven't seen much activity on that branch lately
<siretart> Seveas: in general I think you'll want to run ./configure from debian/rules. in that case you would need that in the build environment, so yes
<ajmitch> \sh: using bzr push?
<\sh> ajmitch: no scp
<ajmitch> ok
<Seveas> siretart, so patching configure to disable checks is OK?
<ajmitch> push uses sftp anyway :)
<siretart> Seveas: I cannot answer you that question. Since ./configure is generated, I would rather patch the scripts creating configure, though
<Seveas> that would have been my next question: whether to patch configure or configure.ac :)
<Seveas> so the latter it is
<Seveas> Cool, then I can upload it
<lucas> siretart: any idea why my uploads don't get processed ?
(Seveas/#ubuntu-motu) ajmitch, even with that builddep the check somehow fails
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) might require X
(Seveas/#ubuntu-motu) it's a simple python test that just does import bonobo.ui
(ajmitch/#ubuntu-motu) and you're sure that module is in python-gnome2?
<Seveas> yes
<ajmitch> hm, looks to be
<ajmitch> oh well, your problem to deal with ;)
<slomo> some of the python-gnome2 modules need X for the check
<Seveas> ;)
<Seveas> I've dealt with it by removing the checks
<slomo> i had the problem with gnomeapplet in service-discovery-applet
<siretart> lucas: sure, you did upload a binary package, instead of a source package
<Seveas> slomo, (!)
<slomo> Seveas: hehe, i did the same ;)
<Seveas> it's an applet that I am packaging
<slomo> oh maybe the same problem ;)
<Seveas> guess so
<Seveas> btw: it's a new version of revelation
<Seveas> it has an applet now
<\sh> siretart: please merge ~shermann/motu-tools
<\sh> argl
<\sh> bug
<\sh> in
<ajmitch> \sh: bzr pull still didn't give me any changes
<\sh> subject
<\sh> it's uploaded
<\sh> http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<ajmitch> Using saved location: http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/
<ajmitch> maybe 1 of the proxies is caching
<siretart> no, same here
<siretart> still at rev 24
<\sh> one moment
<ajmitch> mine is at revision 16?
<ajmitch> how strange
<lucas> siretart: ah true, thanks
<Seveas> there, upload done
<\sh> ajmitch: try merge in 5 4 3 2 1 now
<\sh> evno: 17
<\sh> committer: Stephan Hermann <sh@sourcecode.de>
<\sh> timestamp: Wed 2005-11-23 21:56:50 +0100
<\sh> message:
<\sh>   Added -r switch for -n action to lpbugs.py for sending renaming bug reports
<\sh> can u get it?
<ajmitch> nope
* ajmitch always blames proxies :)
<\sh> check bzr logs....rev 17
<ajmitch> branching on another system
<Seveas> jay - it worked: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1017
* Seveas so proud :)
<phin3as> :)
<ajmitch> rev 16 on a fresh branch
<\sh> bzr: ERROR: Revision {shermann@tiber.tauware.de-20051109221619-3e54de01e1f9c252} not present in <bzrlib.weave.Weave object at 0xb789523c>
<\sh> damn
<siretart> heh, you need to call the ghostbusters!
* Seveas dials 555-2368
<\sh> NOW !
* Seveas has ghostbusters as C=64 music :)
<\sh> sid file?
<\sh> ajmitch: siretart can u merge now?
<ajmitch> nope
<\sh> it should work now...just a minute before I had a bug
<\sh> and now it branches correctly
<siretart> I just merged successfully
* siretart is on rev 26
<ajmitch> siretart: what's different about your branch?
<siretart> lemme check
<siretart> I think none atm
<HiddenWolf> Can someone knowledgable take a look at some debs I found for freevo?
<siretart> puh, I have headaches.. I need a bed now.
<siretart> gn8 folks
<ajmitch> night
<slomo> gn8 siretart
<dholbach> night siretart, get well soon
<\sh> i branched completly new from siretart btw
<lucas> To register as reviewer
<lucas> Please send a signed and encrypted mail with your password and GnuPG keyid to [MAILTO]  keyring@tiber.tauware.de. We will mark you as Reviewer in the database.
<lucas> I can't find the keyring@tiber's keyid
<lucas> somebody can do a local gpg --list-key keyring@tiber.tauware.de
<lucas>  ?
<LaserJock> what is the versioning when you have buildX versions?
<LaserJock> more specifically if there was a build1 version for Ubuntu and I want a ubuntuX version
<ajmitch> buildX -> ubuntu1
<ajmitch> since it's the first ubuntu change
<LaserJock> ok, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure
<Kyral> I am afraid to see how much mail will be in my Inbox on Sunday
<sivang> Good night all
<phin3as> Night.
<raphink> night sivang
<sivang> night raphink, phin3as . see you all tomorrow
<raphink> hopefully ;)
<phin3as> Doubtfully on my path.
<raphink> k
<phin3as> See you soon however.
<raphink> yep :)
<phin3as> Arrogance, are you arrogant?
<Arrogance> phin3as, it depends on what's on TV
<tseng> Lathiat: i am official converting all my code at work to rails
<phin3as> Hah
<tseng> Lathiat: /13 done
<tseng> 1/3?
<minghua> \sh, you are in charge of libstdc++ allocator ABI transition in universe, right?
<LaserJock> slomo: ping?
<\sh> minghua: looks like a bit
<slomo> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> slomo: do you know what happened with introdeveloperdocs?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-29
<\sh> minghua: why? doko is just my boss :)
<minghua> \sh: just let you know that I'm working on scim (libscim8) on Debian side, so you can leave it alone
<slomo> LaserJock: unfrgiven works on it for dapper again
<\sh> minghua: can u file a bug in malone (see my other bugs)
<LaserJock> slomo: have you talked to him recently? I haven't been able to get in touch with him for a while
<\sh> minghua: regarding the cxx abi change...so we know that someone is working on it
<minghua> \sh: will do
<slomo> LaserJock: no, same for me :/
<\sh> minghua: cool
<crimsun> hmm, the fonts seem more crisp after an upgrade today in Dapper. Maybe I'm just seeing things differently.
<LaserJock> slomo: on the 5th he said he would get a svn repo for me to get the docs but he hasn't emailed since
<LaserJock> slomo: do you know if he had a docbook version or if it was just pdf and odt?
<slomo> pdf and odt... but i suggested him to use docbook in the future
<crimsun> ah, it's the Cairo conversion!
<crimsun> (RE: gtk2-engines-clearlooks)
<crimsun> though it's not really the fonts but the theme. Neat.
<minghua> \sh: is there some format requirement? (like the merge bugs, in case there is some automated tracker)
<\sh> minghua: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4803 take is as example
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4803: arkrpg: libstdc++ new allocator build Fix req. for: arkrpg (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4803
<LaserJock> slomo and MOTUs: do you think it is worth while for me to start work on making a docbook version and getting it into the doc-team repo?
<\sh> or use the new version of lpbugs.py in my bzr archive
<slomo> LaserJock: no idea, really... write him again ;)
<\sh> bzr merge or branch http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools
<slomo> crimsun: ah, another one liking clearlooks-cairo :)
<tseng> i still hate the colors
<crimsun> slomo: yes, I couldn't put my finger on it at first after I logged in, but it's obvious now after reading the changelog.
<tseng> just the blue really
<\sh> Nafallo: ping...please mention the cxx changes in the debian/changelog :)
<\sh> Nafallo: forget it
<\sh> Nafallo: it was in the second part of the changelog...shitty display i have here.
<Nafallo> \sh: :-P
<\sh> ok..time for the last cigarette for this morning till I wake up
<crimsun> Nafallo: are you proceeding in any order down the list?
<crimsun> (for c2-> c2a)
<crimsun> (referring to http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html)
<Nafallo> crimsun: nope, I took the ones I did :-)
<crimsun> Nafallo: k
<\sh> ok..good night gentlemen..cu in the morning :)
<minghua> \sh: good night
<dholbach> good night everybody
<crimsun> 'night, daniel
<LaserJock> cya dholbach
* crimsun grumbles at malone. libtorrent is in fact a valid source name, thank you.
<LaserJock> if a bug is seems to be fixed in dapper, do I mark it fixed?
<crimsun> choose Fixed
<crimsun> then add a status note
<crimsun> "Fixed in Dapper"
<LaserJock> k
<crimsun> slomo: sanity-check please, before I upload: does libstdc++ allocator transition for libwfmath-0.3-3 -> libwfmath-0.3-3c2a look ok?
<crimsun> slomo: (just the name change)
<slomo> crimsun: yes.
<slomo> "The new suffix for
<slomo>    these packages should be in any case "c2a" (instead of "c2"). No
<slomo>    new suffix is needed when the soname changes in a new upstream
<slomo>    upload."
<slomo> hum, evil line breaks
<crimsun> ok.
<crimsun> We went with libwfmath-0.3c2; Debian went with libwfmath-0.3-3.
<slomo> the debian did it wrong afaik...
<crimsun> ok, np, I've covered both cases in Conflicts/Replaces anyhow :)
<slomo> but as i understand doko's mail on the debian ml we need to get c2a in any case ;)
<slomo> hehe ok
<Nafallo> wait and see what debian does? :-)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> last-uploader demands stuff to be installed.
<Nafallo> where do I file a bug? :-P
<ajmitch> how else do you want to get the changelog?
<ajmitch> off the web?
<slomo> extracting it from the .deb ;)
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> http://packages.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gnue-common/gnue-common_0.6.0-1ubuntu1/changelog
<Nafallo> yes, if the package is not installed, sniff changelogs.u.c or something :-P
<slomo> hmm, gnome-media 2.12.O-X...
<ajmitch> slomo: yep
<ajmitch> typoism ;)
<slomo> at first i thought my eyes were damaged ;)
<Nafallo> slomo: tsss, I didn't had that much porn, had I? :-)
<slomo> hm?
<Nafallo> oh, nm. I'm just getting tired.
<Nafallo> hm
<Nafallo> I wonder if my parents could come over tomorrow
<Nafallo> they have a 19" monitor for me :-P
<Nafallo> so I can take the old monitor (blue-ish) and build a testbed :-)
<Nafallo> anyway, gnight
<crimsun> 'night
<slomo> gn8
<crimsun> katie must be bombarded
<StrikeForce> tktkyrthjj gtttttttttu
<Lathiat> tseng: heh nice
<Lathiat> tseng: have you hit any hard spots?
<ajmitch> morning Lathiat  :)
<crimsun> ..great. firefox just exploded, taking down all my bugzilla and malone windows.
<ajmitch> sounds about right
<crimsun> ;-)
<tseng> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> tseng: i'd be interested to hear the details
<tseng> Lathiat: i have a group of navigation links in the layout in a sidebar
<tseng> which will go on every page, so i made it a component
<tseng> you cant do ajax on a component because its not directly web accessible
<Lathiat> crimsun: heh
<Lathiat> crimsun: konqueror has this nice trick
<tseng> i had to call it from a controller, which almost defeats the purpose
<Lathiat> crimsun: when the kaffeine plugin launches, then it cant start alsasink
<Lathiat> crimsun: the whole process goes kaboom and eats all my windows
<Lathiat> tseng: hrm
<Lathiat> tseng: should stuck it in the application controller or helper perhaps?
<crimsun> Lathiat: lovely.
<tseng> Lathiat: yep.
<tseng> well not really
<tseng> those dont map to a url either do they?
<tseng> you need to be able to do a GET on it
<Lathiat> the application controller can it hink
<Lathiat> not sure on that
<Lathiat> i see what your saying
* Lathiat hrms
<tseng> its not *that* much work to put it in a helper on component
<Lathiat> i think thats what the application controller is for
<tseng> and call it from each controller
<Lathiat> the application controler is the aprent of all the other controllers
<Lathiat> so instead of putting the same call in each controller
<Lathiat> you smack it in the application.rb controller
<tseng> hm
<Lathiat> i think..
<Lathiat> try it
<tseng> yeah
<tseng> next week, its a holiday here
<Lathiat> :)
<Lathiat> ok
<tseng> :)
<Lathiat> im working at a hosting company doing support atm
<tseng> i will be bugged all week, i had to leave an almost finished function
<Lathiat> heh
<tseng> everything but the component has been totally easy
* Lathiat nods
<Lathiat> one thing i discovered the other day
<Lathiat> and i dunno how i missed it all this time
<Lathiat> is full text indexing/searching in mysql
<tseng> yep
<Lathiat> unfortunately i have to do it manually since AR doesnt do it sine its an extension
<tseng> Lathiat: have you done any custom routing yet?
<Lathiat> tseng: yeh i was fiddling with it
<Lathiat> it was a bit messy
<tseng> works great for me
<tseng> /model/controller/field1/field2
<Lathiat> well what i was trying to do
<Lathiat> is /store/5/item/4
<Lathiat> where item is a controller
<tseng> i am sick of that ?&?&?&?= nonsense
<Lathiat> as is store
<Lathiat> i sort of got it working
<tseng> hm that does sound messy
<tseng> did you really want a join?
<Lathiat> well take
<Lathiat>  /category/5/item/4
<Lathiat> in the situation where items can be in more than 1 category
<Lathiat> and you want to keep history
<Lathiat> without using cookies or something that would break when using more than 1 page at once etc
<Lathiat> is there a better way to solve that?
<tseng> oh
<tseng> the way i have it you view /list/2/4
<tseng> then from there you go to show/24
<tseng> for the specific item
<tseng> hm im not sure where mine would break like that
<tseng> if you are on /category/5
<tseng> and click to item/24
<tseng> you go Back to category 5
<tseng> yo could also see item 24 on cat 4
<tseng> maybe i dont understand yet
<Lathiat> tseng: so when an item can belong to many categories
<Lathiat> how do i remember that they got to that item from category <x>
<tseng> http referrer?
<Amaranth> sessions
<Amaranth> what software is this?
<Lathiat> what if they go through and add the item to their cart, say i wanted to go back to the category then
<tseng> or sessions.
<Lathiat> the referrer wont be there anymore
<tseng> Amaranth: ruby on rails
<Lathiat> Amaranth: that breaks multi page
<Lathiat> if i have 10 tabs open
<Amaranth> ah, this explains much
<Lathiat> browing a host of items
<Lathiat> in different categories
<Lathiat> if i just store it in the session it'l go to buggery
<Amaranth> Lathiat: No real user does that.
<Lathiat> Amaranth: i do it all the time
<Lathiat> Amaranth: and its certainly not a use case that should be broken
<Lathiat> where avoidable
<Amaranth> Lathiat: You are a _very_ small minority.
<Amaranth> Lathiat: There is no other way.
<Lathiat> Amaranth: when im browing say, thinkgeek
<Lathiat> Amaranth: sure there is
<Lathiat> Amaranth: /category/5/item/4
<Lathiat> in the url
<tseng> lets look at thinkgeek :)
<Lathiat> the url is a reliabel way to encode that
<Lathiat> so on thinkgeek i go browsing
<Lathiat> i open up liek 30 tabs of things i want to look at
<Lathiat> and go sort through them bit by bit
<Lathiat> maybe thats just me :)
<tseng> http://www.thinkgeek.com/pcmods/cables/69d3/
<tseng> back takes me to
<tseng> http://www.thinkgeek.com/pcmods/
<tseng> oh! ok
<Lathiat> see /pcmods/cables/69d3
<Lathiat> thats _exactly_ what im talking about
<Lathiat> encoding the category in the url
<tseng> ok in routes.rb
<tseng> you can make a nil parameter
<Lathiat> i managed to make it work
<tseng> so /store/category/cat#/item#
<Lathiat> but what i couldnt get
<tseng> you do item => :nil
<tseng> and its optional
<Lathiat> tseng: ah see, that would make more sense
<Lathiat> mmm
<tseng> yeah
<Lathiat> and how would i map the item bit?
<Lathiat> see
<tseng> if you get an item in the controller function
<Lathiat> i had the items in a separate controller
<tseng> you can render a different page
<Lathiat> so was sort of tryin to cross-controller things
<tseng> ok hows this
<tseng> two routes
<Lathiat> probably the wrong approach
<tseng> one w/ item
<tseng> one w/o
<Lathiat> call brb
<tseng> go to seperate controllers
<tseng> it would totally work
<tseng> if you put the more specific one first
<tseng> that sounds like the winner.
<tseng> /store/cat/5 routes to store -> category
<tseng> /store/cat/5/item# routes to store -> item
<tseng> you can enforce valid input with a regex
<Lathiat> ah ok
<Lathiat> right
<Lathiat> i think that what i ended up doing
<Lathiat> the only problem i had then
<Lathiat> was when using link_tos
<Lathiat> they linked to /store/cat/5/controller/action
<Lathiat> now while thats good
<Lathiat> i couldnt figure out how tom ake a link_to go outside that when i wanted it to
<Lathiat> e.g. /store/controller/action
<tseng> why does firefox still say deer park
<tseng> Lathiat: you give it the controller
<tseng> Lathiat: link_to "Blah", { :controller => "controller", :action => :function }
<Lathiat> tseng: yeh but
<Lathiat> the way i was doing it
<Lathiat> maybe i was routing wrong
<Lathiat> when i did that
<Lathiat> i ended up with /store/cat/5/controller/action
<Lathiat> i think perhaps i had my routes.rb wrong
<tseng> i think so
<tseng> it only makes up funny urls if there is a route for it
<Lathiat> hrm
<zakame> hi all
<tseng> anyone restarted X lately?
<tseng> and fixed whatever is pissing it off
<crimsun> I zapped the X server, but it seems to restart fine, and I can log in
<sivang> morning all
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> x just gone
<sivang> does anyone know if there is a python setup.py uninstall ? :)
<\sh> sivang: www.python.org -> doc -> distutils
<\sh> in the library section i think...i honestly don't know
<sivang> \sh: I'm reading there, well there's gotta be a way since debian packages allow you to remove pyprogs
<sivang> I just wish p.o had a better search capability
<dholbach> good morning
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hi daniel :)
<zakame> hi slomo
<slomo> hi zakame :)
<crimsun> re zakame, slomo
<crimsun> slomo: I'll be merging in ffmpeg & vlc today based on the latest Sid changes
<zakame> how's the archives now? is debhelper (or po-debconf) ok now? :)
<crimsun> ffmpeg -5 is a minor change if you want to go ahead
<slomo> crimsun: ffmpeg? i can do that if you want ;) but did you ping elmo about moving it back to universe?
<crimsun> slomo: libpostproc-dev is in universe according to p.u.c :))
<slomo> crimsun: perfect :)
<crimsun> zakame: no major borkage aside from modular X.Org, but that's being fixed
<slomo> crimsun: hmm, all our changes have to be applied again to ffmpeg... this guy doesn't read his bug reports it seems ;)
<crimsun> slomo: unfortunately
<slomo> i guess i can just take the debdiff from http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ffmpeg/ ...
<zakame> crimsun: ooh :)
<slomo> siretart: ping?
<slomo> crimsun: uploaded ffmpeg
<crimsun> slomo: awesome, thanks :)
<colinl> hi there!
<crimsun> hi
<colinl> just a question :) : are security updates in universe automatically synced from debian packages?
<crimsun> no
<colinl> ok
<crimsun> no security updates are automatically synced
<colinl> who should I contact to ask for an update?
<crimsun> (us)
<colinl> I recently found a local vuln in the soft I develop, and the fix hit Debian yesterday
<colinl> ah, cool
<colinl> so, here you are:
<colinl> http://www.debian.org/security/2005/dsa-908
<crimsun> debdiff would be awfully nice
<colinl> ok! :) how do I do that?
<crimsun> generate it against the current version in universe and a version with the security errata backported
* StevenK wishes he was whitelisted so someone could upload his merge.
<colinl> crimsun: ok, i'll try to do that
<colinl> mmmh
<colinl> the versions are awfully different
<colinl> for sylpheed, there are 2.0.4 in debian Sid and 2.1.1 in universe
<colinl> for -claws-gtk2, there are 1.9.100 in Sid and 1.9.14 in universe
<zakame> Nafallo: ping, seems crimsun already fixed #4523 via #4647 (cool number ;)
<colinl> crimsun: should I generate packages from the latest upstream versions ?
<crimsun> colinl: no, backport the security fixes if possible, please
<colinl> ok
<Nafallo> bug 4523
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4523: torcs: merge new debian version Fix req. for: torcs (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4523
<colinl> crimsun: ok, so, apt-get source'd it, added a patch in debian/patches and the changelog entry.
<Nafallo> yay double-work :-P
<colinl> crimsun: next step is dpkg-buildpackage ?
<colinl> crimsun: I don't remember the parameters :)
<zakame> colinl: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -k<yourkey>
<colinl> <yourkey> as in 0x12345678 ?
<zakame> the 0x is optional
* Nafallo usally types his -knafallo@ubuntu.com
<zakame> yeah, that too :)
<colinl> crimsun: there are packages for sylpheed-claws and sylpheed-claws-gtk2 in universe
<colinl> sylpheed-claws is gtk1 and completely unmaintained
<colinl> I suggest it gets dropped :)
<colinl> crimsun: is that what you need?
<colinl> http://colino.net/tmp/sylpheed-claws-gtk2_1.9.14-2.debdiff
<colinl> bbl
<crimsun> colinl: essentially, yes.
<colinl> crimsun: still there?
<colinl> is there anyone feeling like updating 3 packages in universe to fix a local buffer overflow? (debdiffs provided)
<Lathiat> colinl: forward them to me and i'll pass them onto security review
<Lathiat> lathiat at ubuntu.com
<colinl> Lathiat: thanks
<Lathiat> colinl: thank-you :)
<colinl> Lathiat: the debdiffs have huge diffs in config.guess and/or config.sub, should I remove them from the patch of leave it as-is?
<Lathiat> colinl: eh you can filter those out if you like
<Lathiat> see filterdiff
<colinl> k, thanks
<Lathiat> i hate that
* StevenK ponders working on another merge while waiting for upload@ul.o
<colinl> Lathiat: mail sent
<StevenK> That reminds me. Is dapper unbroken?
<siretart> StevenK: the archive can build packages again, if that is what you mean
<siretart> hi folks
<dholbach> there's a new pbuilder :)
* StevenK bounces impatiently waiting for an answer from elmo and then realises he went through waiting for the DAM. :-)
* StevenK wonders if bugs filed in Malone are source or binary package.
<siretart> I think source package
* StevenK files another merge bug.
* StevenK quickly comes to the conclusion that the patch included in the merge so isn't needed.
<zakame> hi all
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> ping \sh
<zakame> hey sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi zakame
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<sistpoty> siretart, \sh: currently the merge-list will update the package status only if a malone bug with "merge new debian version" as subject is filed...
<siretart> sistpoty: did \sh talk to you about the merge lists and the c2a transition?
<sistpoty> siretart: no, he didn't... that's what i wanted to ask ;=
<sistpoty> ;)
<sistpoty> siretart, \sh: the first thing i wanted to change is that the list can also be updated by malone bugs with another title... what should that be?
<siretart> sistpoty: whats wrong with the current title?
<sistpoty> hm... for libstdc++-only changes "merge new debian version" might be inaccurate?
<siretart> your right
<sistpoty> damn... there seems s.th. completely wrong with the email-parser... i wonder why it's working *g*
<siretart> hm
<siretart> perhaps procmail would be worth to look at? ;)
<sistpoty> siretart: maybe... but I don't think it would ease this very much ;)
* sistpoty needs to look at malone-mails again
* siretart is currently at work, and I need to after work to kathrin
<siretart> she had a bad car accident yesterday
<sistpoty> oh... is she fine?
<\sh> sistpoty: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/digikam/+bug/4798
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4798: digikam: libstdc++ new allocator build Fix req. for: digikam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4798
<\sh> sistpoty: take the subject as example
<\sh> sistpoty: I adjusted lpbugs to have a -r option as add for the -n switch
<sistpoty> ok, thx \sh
<siretart> hey \sh
<siretart> sistpoty: yes, fortunatly, nobody got injured
<\sh> moins siretart
<sistpoty> :)
<\sh> siretart: what happend to your gf?
<siretart> sistpoty: both cars are 'totalschaden' (fucked up beyond all repair, fubar)
<siretart> \sh: some idiot drove into her
<\sh> siretart: shit...
<\sh> siretart: hope she's well...
<sistpoty> o damn... claudi also had an accident lately. she slided and crashed her car, but luckily nobody was hurt as well
<sistpoty> gmrl... i think i definitely broke the email-parser right now... hope that i'll have it fixed in a few minutes
<siretart> \sh: she says she is okay. I'll see her later
<sistpoty> \sh: email-parser is fixed now... it should accept "libstdc++ new allocator build" as bug-title as well. could you please verify this for the next bug you file?
<\sh> sue
<\sh> sure
<chrissturm> is there somebody working on getting a new network manager version into dapper?
<chrissturm> or will nm be in main for dapper?
<sistpoty> \sh: anything else needed for libstdc++ stuff in the merge-list?
<\sh> sistpoty: hmmm...write some text after the package name "no merge"
<\sh> but only when it's really c++ and no merge
<sistpoty> hm... if it's no merge and only c++, you don't have the scott link... but i can make this clearer ;)
<\sh> and we have to make sure that the merges which are already done, but need to be transitioned, are shown again as non-merge
<sistpoty> ok, this will be a little bit tougher... but I'll take care of that
<\sh> kewl :)
<sistpoty> ok, "no merge" is done ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: btw...one idea
<\sh> can we create a "public imap folder" for the universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com address on tiber?
<\sh> I would like to have access to the buglists via public imap connection so I can write some things like kbugbuster
<\sh> without parsing html pages...and dealing with launchpad...but only until we have a running xmlrpc implementation
<sistpoty> \sh: I have not the slightest clue about imap... but I don't object ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: but you have a clue about exim :)
<\sh> sistpoty: so I'll check during the weekend what is the best working solution for exim and imap servers :)
<sistpoty> \sh: imo we'd need one "dummy" account where exim delivers mail to... and i guess an imap-server could be used from that mailfolder...
<sistpoty> \sh: but you might want to ask siretart. iirc he has already done exim+imap stuff
<\sh> or we convert the mail to xml style..and creating an xmlrpc service :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<bmonty> sistpoty: imap is easy to set up
<bmonty> i run courier on my network, basically install the packages and tweak a couple of settings
<sistpoty> bmonty: cool :)
<bmonty> sistpoty: since \sh wants it public you'll need to configure the TLS stuff so the imap session is encrypted with SSL
<bmonty> without that passwords and such are sent in the clear
<siretart> sistpoty: I'm busy here at work, whats up with imap and exim?
<siretart> ah, \sh seems to want an imap server on tiber with shared folders.. I see
<sistpoty> yep
<siretart> yeah, I could arrange something like that
<sistpoty> cool
<siretart> courier or cyrus?
<sistpoty> siretart: i have no clue about imap... your choice ;)
<siretart> I will think about that, and see that I get an imap running till sunday
<sistpoty> :)
<siretart> I'm not sure how much time I will have tomorrow
<sistpoty> siretart: you merged clanlib from debian... is libstd++ change still needed?
* siretart checks the changelog
<siretart> sistpoty: ah, you ask because of the c2a transition?
<sistpoty> exactly
<sistpoty> if so, I'll put that back to new/unassigned
<siretart> sistpoty: it is on doko's list, so it is needed
<sistpoty> siretart: so you haven't done this... ok, I'll reset this package on the list
<siretart> sistpoty: check doko's list in his announcement for packages that need to be transitioned
<siretart> ah
<siretart> no, I didn't do that
<siretart> I didn't do any work on c2a yet
<siretart> sorry
<sistpoty> siretart: i already did this... there are only ~8 package for which I don't know the exact status. clanlib was one of them ;)
<sistpoty> grml... buglist down again... this is not my day *g*
<siretart> yuhuuu, xservers hit the archive :)
<lucas> siretart: I mailed you about REVU access
<bmonty> can somone please sponsor malone #4574?
<lucas> the wiki says to send a signed + encrypted mail to keyring@tiber, but I can't find keyring@tiber's PGP id
<Ubugtu`> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
<sistpoty> lucas: the mail should only be signed, not encrypted
<lucas> I mean "to register as reviewer"
<lucas> The wiki says "Please send a signed and encrypted mail with your password and GnuPG keyid to [MAILTO]  keyring@tiber.tauware.de. We will mark you as Reviewer in the database."
<siretart> lucas: sorry, reviewer is for motus only
<siretart> lucas: do we really need ruby as dependency for the motutools package?
<lucas> siretart: currently, yes
<lucas> if somebody rewrites what is in ruby to python, I'll accept the patch
<lucas> actually, the "mts" scripts is written in ruby. if this one is written in python instead, we could put ruby in recommends, not depends
<lucas> since it would only make some subscripts unusable
<siretart> I'm not that confident to commiting to ruby for a somehow 'official' package
<siretart> this is a rather political discussion than a technical one, I know
<lucas> I promise to accept patches to change scripts from ruby to python (if functionality is kept)
<lucas> most of the scripts will be ~30 lines long
<lucas> so it won't be hard to convert them
<lucas> the only reason why I chose ruby is that I know ruby far better than python, and I wanted to have something usable *fast*.
<siretart> ok
<siretart> I never did anything in ruby, but revu is developed in python
<lucas> you are reviewing motutools ?
<siretart> I did take a glance
<sistpoty> loveubuntu: which of these still need to go through c2a-transition: hk-classes, jabberoo, knode?
<loveubuntu> loveubuntu?
<sistpoty> hehe
<\sh> where the hell I got this nick from
<siretart> ok, I'm off for today
<siretart> cu tomorrow!
<sistpoty> cya siretart:
<\sh> siretart: greetings to kathrin
<\sh> sistpoty: doko mailed yesterday a list
<sistpoty> \sh: actually these are packages you touched which you touched and are marked as "done" on the merge list
<sistpoty> \sh: so I just wonder wether you already did the c2a-transition ;)
<\sh> no
<\sh> i'll have to
<\sh> when dapper is working again as expected :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> should i put these to new/unassigned?
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> yes
<sistpoty> ok, will do
<\sh> sistpoty: jabberoo was a sync ihmo anyways :)
<sistpoty> *g*... maybe i could also have found out the status of the packages in question, but I'm a lazy bitch ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: what about arkrpg?
<sistpoty> \sh: since this is not marked done, it's your responsibility to also care for the libstdc++-transition ;)
<\sh> ah right :)
<lucas> raphink: ping
<lucas> is there a MOTU here that could post some comments on REVU on my behalf ?
<lucas> \sh ?
<sistpoty> lucas: what comments do you want posted?
<lucas> it's quite long so I'll put them online somewhere and you can just copy/paste
<sistpoty> lucas: ok
<lucas> sistpoty: gave you the address in pm
<dholbach> hey dredg, mgalvin
* dredg does the dance of nokia 770 joy
<dredg> now to make it work with 802.1x
<mitsuhiko> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey mitsuhiko
<\sh> slomo: ping master of video stuff :)
<slomo> \sh: pong :) but actually i like audio stuff more ;)
<\sh> slomo: heard about a package of "gem"?
<slomo> hmm, yes... but only the name,
<\sh> slomo: funny thing: deb upstream removed "ffmpeg" support, because it can't be compiled with a new version of ffmpeg..but somehow it will compile in dapper with ffmpeg
<slomo> hum
<slomo> that's really funny
<slomo> do you have the url to the buildlog or something?
<slomo> (the failed one in debian)
<\sh> no...it's build in debian..but failed in dapper
<slomo> huh? even if i read your sentence above again i read it the other way around... well, ok ;) so in debian it works fine with ffmpeg and for us it fails... anyway, show me the buildlog :)
<\sh> slomo: no...in debian it does compile without ffmpeg...but in dapper (same patches same source) it wants compile with ffmpeg
<\sh> and ffmpeg looks like to come out of avcodec
<slomo> yes, libavcodec comes from ffmpeg... hmmm
<slomo> i'll take a look later if you want... first i'll fix galeon and liferea for new firefox ;)
<\sh> i'll try to fix this now
<slomo> ok, even better... but be prepared... working with ffmpeg is painfull most of the time ;)
<sistpoty> I'm off for a while... cya later
* ogra remembers his ffmpeg merge marathon for breezy 6 months ago
<\sh> hehe...no ffmpeg now...done worked...it pulled in some little piece of ffmpeg and this was throwing an error which I manually patched away :)
<slomo> fine :)
<herve> hello
<slomo> hi herve
<dholbach> hi herve
<ajmitch> morning
<herve> hi ajmitch
<slomo> hi ajmitch
<slomo> *sigh* galeon and liferea don't work with firefox 1.5 yet
<ajmitch> ouch
* ajmitch uses galeon daily :(
* slomo searches for patches
<ajmitch> I'd better not close it then
<slomo> hehe
* slomo sends a killall galeon-bin to ajmitch :P
* ajmitch dies
<slomo> ajmitch: hm, sorry... google doesn't find anything, in cvs are no changes specific to firefox... :(
<herve> anyone to review a close to advocated nice little python package with fur?
<herve> well... maybe not fur
<slomo> ajmitch: and same for blam... omg :/
<ajmitch> better fix blam!
<slomo> tell me how ;) i don't know anything about the gecko api
<ajmitch> neither do I ;)
<ajmitch> bbiab
<ajmitch> I guess we need to make universe installable again.. sigh
<Seveas> ajmitch, damn
<Seveas> it
<Seveas> it's so much fun when it's broken
<ajmitch> I'd rather it be unbroken & working at all times
<Seveas> ajmitch, ghe, then we have to stop shipping mozilla and X :)
<ajmitch> nah, we have to fix them :)
<Seveas> s/mozilla/firefox/
<slomo> do we have someone here who knows the gecko API? ;P blam, liferea and galeon need some love it seems... but galeon could be working from latest cvs, they did some mozilla API updates
<ajmitch> debian will probably get the madness soon
<slomo> will they switch to firefox too?
<ajmitch> no idea
<slomo> i wonder if gecko-sharp(2) still works... i have nothing to test it here :/
<Seveas> slomo, blam
<ajmitch> Seveas: see above
<slomo> Seveas: blam doesn't work anyway because it uses a native library linking against gecko... it doesn't even get to some gecko-sharp stuff ;) monodevelop uses it too but it crashes since 0.8 on my ibook and my pc is broken...
<slomo> so if someone could test MD's doc browser... ;)
<ajmitch> oh man, gnubuntu :)
<Seveas> all stallmanists unite!
<Seveas> :)
* ajmitch signs up for the Party
<slomo> gnubuntu?
<Seveas> slomo, Ubuntu with horns
<ajmitch> see sabdfl's latest email
<slomo> who had this weird idea? ;)
<slomo> oh *looks*
<ajmitch> Seveas: don't worry, I even have the gnu.org email address to go with it :)
<ajmitch> slomo: 'idealogically pure' ubuntu
<Seveas> me is not so idealistic
<ajmitch> also see ian jackson's post about firefox crack
<dholbach> the party is the HUG DAY! :)
<ajmitch> might be useful
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> hugs all around! :)
<herve> I can tell you X is broken too ;-)
<slomo> herve: it is? ;)
<herve> no, just the X binary that moved to /usr/bin
<herve> ho, and the synaptics driver name change for laptop users
<slomo> hmm, and the radeon driver for me... with and without exa enabled different broken behaviour ;)
<herve> either the package was also renamed
<herve> or it's just a matter of moving it from /usr/X11R6/lib
<ajmitch> daniels will fix once he wakes up, I'm sure
<ajmitch> it's only 8am there now :)
<dholbach> good night
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<dholbach> night andrew, night sebastian
<herve> bye
<dholbach> bye herv :)
<\sh> siretart: don't worry about clanlib...i just made the transition. and yes you're welcome :)
<\sh> siretart: and thx for fetchpackage...a really handy tool :)
<herve> good night
<\sh> cu herve
<JanC> slomo: monodoc seems to work on current dapper
<slomo> JanC: i meant monodevelop's integrated doc browser... sorry
<JanC> yeah, just checking
<JanC> seems to work too
<slomo> ok, thanks :) then gecko-sharp(2) should be fine
#ubuntu-motu 2005-11-30
<thierry> anyone could help me getting started with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile ?
<thierry> how can I make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/ and its corresponding icon file (xpm/png/etc.) into /usr/share/pixmaps/
<\sh> thierry: u have to check .install/.files/.dirs files and the install targets of the debian/rules files
<Seveas> \sh, n00b question: what's the difference between .files and .dirs
<Seveas> \sh, n00b question: what's the difference between .files and .install i mean
<thierry> \sh : and what do I do if a package doesn't have any of these?
<\sh> Seveas: old style and new style..
<Seveas> which is new?
<\sh> thierry: then it's doing the moving in the rules file e.g. dh_movefiles and/or dh_install
<\sh> Seveas: hmm....for this I have to read the man page again :)
<thierry> \sh : so what should I do??
<Seveas> nvm, I'll read it myself
<\sh> thierry: well...1. check if there is one desktop file in new upstream e.g. or create one in debian/ dir
<thierry> \sh : ok I get this dh_movefiles: Compatibility levels before 3 are deprecated.
<thierry> dh_movefiles: debian/tmp does not exist.
<\sh> thierry: then dh_install to debian/<packagename where it belongs>/usr/share/applications/
<\sh> something like this
<thierry> but what does dh_install does?
<\sh> man dh_install...
<\sh> well...there are many ways to succeed this..and u have to read the debian/rules file and analyse the correct way for this package
<thierry> k...
<Seveas> I was trying to package libsexy, but somehow I mess up with the .install files
<Seveas> even though I call dh_install in the rules, none of the files specified in the .install files are installed
<Seveas> solved
* Seveas dumb
<Seveas> \sh, still here, got another simple noob question for you :)
<\sh> just trying to calming down and going to bed
<Seveas> ok, then I won't bother you :)
<\sh> tomorrow...or write it to sh@sourcecode.de...so i can answer it early in the morning :)
<sistpoty> hi folks
<sistpoty> cool... i just found out i already filed a bug with patch in BTS which i can use for merging now :)
<\sh> sistpoty: hehe.btw..good work with offline merge :) i used it today a couple of times
<sistpoty> do you mean the update-proggy?
<\sh> yepp
<\sh> 25 open merge/libstdc++ bugs...and no build logs..no information nothing :)
<sistpoty> hehe... i just though it might come in handy if i wasn't the only one to manipulate the list *g*
<\sh> and 424 packages to go
<sistpoty> yep... :/
<\sh> i need a build server for my own :)
<sistpoty> use tiber ;)
<sistpoty> that's what i did for the time consuming ghc6 *g*
<\sh> tiber is too slow
<\sh> it's not faster then my nc6000
<sistpoty> harr... my own crate *is* slower than tiber :(
<\sh> i need dual or quad cpu and one pbuilder per cpu
<\sh> i could handle 4 packages at the same time..and still work on 4 other packages still :)
<ajmitch> \sh: get me one of those boxes as well, please
<\sh> actually...is it possible to assign a pbuilder to one cpu...and the second pbuilder to the 2. cpu?
<\sh> i do not know
<\sh> I want to try it
<sistpoty> you can assign processes/process groups to a specific cpu iirc, so this should be possible
<sistpoty> \sh: you did c2a-transition for cal3d?
<sistpoty> \sh: because doko
<sistpoty> +'s list says: "universe cal3d libcal3d10c2"
<sistpoty> and my current updated pbuilder resolves ${shlibs:Depends} to libcal3d11
<\sh> grmpf..i just switched of the nc6000
<\sh> but I think i did libcal3d11c2a
<\sh> but don't worry..nothing is build
<\sh> the last logentry from today.html is from 15:42 DCT
<sistpoty> ah, k...
<\sh> ok...sleeping time...
<sistpoty> so i should better wait until cal3d is built before i upload a pending package? or will s.o. clever trigger global rebuilds for pending packages?
<\sh> sistpoty: we have to see...
<sistpoty> ok
<\sh> I just checked some rdepends on some renamed packages...and we have to send them for rebuilding...
<\sh> actually i'm not sure if we should do it automatically via buildd admins, or at least we have to touch some build-deps or deps
<\sh> cal3d was as well a merge
<sistpoty> it was... maybe that confused me a little bit *g*
<\sh> you have not my crack level .. i'm just burning :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> well then get some sleep and cool down ;)
<\sh> yeah :)
<\sh> good night :)
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone and have a nice weekend (will be away during weekend)
<lamont-away> ccmalloc_0.4.0-4ubuntu1 has an undeclared build-dep on g++-3.3
<viviersf> hmmmm
<viviersf> strange doesnt ubuntu have blackdown java anywhere ?
<Amaranth> in multiverse
<viviersf> erm
<viviersf> lol
<viviersf> i would have thought there should not be any issues with blackdown
<viviersf> and it would be in universe
<crimsun> nope, same issues as with ibm and sun, except blackdown's is redistributable
<viviersf> elo ajmitch
<viviersf> crimsun, :(
<ajmitch> hi viviersf
<viviersf> ajmitch, i got that problem sorted
<ajmitch> great!
<ajmitch> what was it?
<viviersf> chroot / mtab / procmounts
<zakame> hello
<crimsun> moin
* StevenK tries to understand the Great X Reorganisation that happening in Dapper.
<crimsun> speaking of which, the latest upgrade borked stuff, but I edited /etc/gdm/gdm.conf to point to /usr/bin/Xorg instead of /usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86, and stuff isn't crying so loudly
<crimsun> err s/XFree86/X/
* StevenK wonders where a GL include now lives.
<StevenK> I can't find it in Breezy, and packages.u.c can't search Dapper.
<StevenK> Oh, woe is me!
<crimsun> /usr/include/GL
<StevenK> Well, what about GL/GLwMDrawA.h
<StevenK> That's what I can't find.
<crimsun> hmm.
<zakame> hi slomo
<StevenK> Ah hah!
<StevenK> libgl1-mesa-swrast-dev
<siretart> morning folks!
<slomo> hi siretart :)
<slomo> siretart: did you already fix qemu for ppc? otherwise i could take a look in a few minutes
<siretart> slomo: the problem was iirc upstream, I intentended to wait for the next debian upload
<zakame> hey siretart :)
<siretart> slomo: if you can fix it, great
<siretart> huhu zakame
* StevenK watches inventor build for the nth time.
<yaoming> is there everybody tell me how to disable IPv6?
<zakame> yaoming: how come? is ipv6 bugging you?
<zakame> yaoming: you could also ask in #ubuntu
<yaoming> yes
<yaoming> sometimes i can access some site like ubunt.com. sometimes i cant access it,i think ipv6 bug this
<dooglus> when I close this laptop's lid, nothing happens other than that the wireless connection gets broken.  can I stop it trying to hibernate or whatever it tries to do?
<dooglus> sorry. thought I was in
<dooglus> #ubuntu
<yaoming> i have found #ubuntu ,thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<zakame> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey zakame :)
<siretart> huhu dholbach
<dholbach> hey reinhard
<\sh> now...good morning
<zakame> hi \sh :D
<siretart> hey \sh
<\sh> siretart: kathrin is fine?
<\sh> grmpf...I have to check now the archives for successfull builds
<siretart> \sh: yes, she got a bit hurt by the accident, but she is more or less fine
<siretart> \sh: she is quite stressed on her nerves, because she has to hold a lessen in class (9th grade) about databases
<siretart> and her prof wasn't too supportive :/
<\sh> ah..that's really bad...
<zakame> awww
<\sh> moins ogra
<zakame> hi ogra
<siretart> hey ogra. morning Fuddl!
<siretart> Fuddl: how's uni? ;)
<siretart> \sh: re: imap server
<siretart> \sh: I'd like to use courier, because I know him better, lets evalute that with shared folders
<\sh> siretart: yes...imap server...I need a public folder
<siretart> \sh: the problem with that: courier expects mails in ~/Maildir in Maildir format
<siretart> \sh: currently exim delivers all mail to /var/mail/$user in mbox format
<siretart> I could change this, but this would break mail for ALL users
<\sh> siretart: but there must be a delivering agent for this...
<siretart> so I'd suggest that we require the users to setup a procmailrc
<siretart> is this fine for you?
<\sh> siretart: cyrus has as well a delivery agent for other mtas...to push mails from mta stdin to imap db
<\sh> siretart: there is only one :)
<siretart> \sh: I know courier, too. thats the same problem
<\sh> i need only an exim rule which pushes all incoming mail of one account into courier
<\sh> shared folder
<siretart> \sh: only that for Maildir, we can use procmail as delivery agent. for cyrus, we'd need the cyrus delivery agent additionally
<siretart> \sh: courier works on maildirs
<siretart> \sh: shared folders in courier are implemented using symlinks
<siretart> \sh: Maildirs are locking and thread safe, so thats not a concern
<siretart> the concern is security and access rights. this is resolved by filesystem
<siretart> there is no such nice acls like in cyrus
<\sh> siretart: ok...can we use a special account for this? we will subscribe this user to universe-bugs and I want to have access with a programm on it..nobpdy else
<siretart> do we need that?
<siretart> \sh: that would be not much of a problem. I'm currently investigating if I should install a courier or cyrus
<siretart> \sh: but if I understand you correctly, I think cyrus would fit better, I think..
<\sh> siretart: i don't mind..I only need a mailspool which I can access via imap :)
<siretart> I see.
<Fuddl> hi there!
<siretart> \sh: cyrus makes it easier to implement virtual users
<Fuddl> siretart: let's say it was "a hard ride" to get here ;)
<siretart> Fuddl: hey, the streets are terrible
<siretart> its snowing here.. hard!
<dholbach> here too :-D
<Fuddl> siretart: huh? where are you? still at home?
* Fuddl wants more snow.... moooore... MORE!!! ;)
<dholbach> <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 30 mins. Downtime estimate is 45 mins total. Wikis will be read only.
<siretart> Fuddl: yes, I'll stay at home for today
<Fuddl> siretart: and you say it snows in nuernberg? hm... hopefully there's some snow left for feucht :)
<siretart> Fuddl: I just got home, I was at kathrin over the night
<Fuddl> siretart: is she ok?
<Fuddl> (... i ask because of that idiot...)
<siretart> Fuddl: she is generally fine, yes
<Fuddl> phu, that's good to hear. when that dump ass crashed into my scooter everything hurt they day after that accident
<siretart> Fuddl: I can imagine
<siretart> Fuddl: she is at school now, holding a lesson
<Fuddl> siretart: hehe, that means she's NOT fine at the moment *ggg*
<StevenK> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, GLw support has been disabled.
<slomo> GLw?
<siretart> Fuddl: sort of, yes ;)
<StevenK> I have no idea what it is, I just know the merge I'm trying to use requires it for building.
<doko> ajmitch: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11097 that's rather old ...
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug #11097: CXX transition: freefem Product: Ubuntu, Component: UNKNOWN, Severity: enhancement, Assigned to: ajmitch@ihug.co.nz, Status: UNCONFIRMED http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11097
<\sh> doko: did u have a look on some packages I made if everything is correct?
<ogra> \sh, if its not, you should get bugs anyway ;)
<\sh> ogra: I want to avoid bugs...that's why I ask a pro :)
<doko> \sh: no
<ogra> \sh, we have 1 month more for bugfixing this release cycle ;)
<\sh> ogra: yes..and we have finally 500 packages to go...and I don't want to make a mistake and bugfix it the other day...we ... do ... not ... have ... time ...
<ogra> these 500 packages have to be done latest by feature freeze ... you'll be bored the rest of the release if you dont have bugs to fix ;)
<ogra> (indeed i'm not serious)
<\sh> ogra: oh no...I'll have some nice projects...glpbugs is one of them :)
<ogra> oh, you plan to start working on dapper+1 stuff ?
<\sh> ogra: yes..development stuff yes
<doko> why 500 packages?
<\sh> doko: merges
<doko> ahh
* ogra will have an endless bugday after feature freeze
<\sh> doko: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=fixed
<\sh> only 145 packages so far done
<siretart> w00t!
<siretart> my bad, I misread
<\sh> 100 packages in assigned status but not done
<ogra> Total 185 packages says the page
<siretart> I read only 145 left. sorry
<\sh> 420 packages including cxx and merges to be done
<\sh> uh i misread :)
* ajmitch has at least 4 or 5 on the assigned but not uploaded list
<ajmitch> hm, gnue-common didn't show on the list
<ajmitch> but it was only a few days between debian upload & ubuntu sync
<ajmitch> doko: yes, it is rather old, not sure why it slipped through
<doko> \sh: you may want to add to this site, that people look first for syncing/merging the CXX stuff from unstable
<\sh> doko: well..most of the people were reading it...and we marked all cxx stuff explicitly...so if there is a merge open which has to be transitioned as well...they know what to do :)
* ajmitch waits very patiently to upgrade his sid chroot to experimental crack
<ajmitch> sleep time, night all
<ogra> night ajmitch
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
<chillywilly> got my Ubuntu CDs
<chillywilly> makes me want to do a fresh install ;P
<colinl> hi!
<colinl> Lathiat: anything blocking about the updates I sent you yesterday by mail, or is it just lack of time?
<Lathiat> colinl: havent looked at them yet, will do tonight
<colinl> ok, thanks
<Lathiat> nps
<zakame> hi
<zakame> hmmm, just to make sure, but are python packages to be set with Architecture: all, or any?
<zakame> I notice eyed3 builds as python-eyed3-*_all in ubuntu, but not in debian
<Lathiat> it does depend on the package
<zakame> well, I noticed that on the last ubuntu change, eyed3 switched b-d's to b-d-i's, and arch: all
<zakame> hi Fuddl
<zakame> wb Nafallo
<Nafallo> thanx
<bradb> Hey all.
<dholbach> hey brad
<bradb> hey dholbach
<bradb> Just thought I'd let you guys know that bugmail now has an X-Launchpad-Bug header, to help you build bugmail filters.
<dholbach> i unmoderated universe-bugs@ :)
<dholbach> and it doesn't seem to be spammed heavily, so i'm quite happy for the moment :)
<bradb> cool
* dholbach has a look at the mail headers anyway now
<bradb> An example of what they look like is shown here: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/InitialBugContacts
<dholbach> BugContacts - cooooool :)
* dholbach hugs bradb 
* bradb blushes, slightly suffocating
<dholbach> :)))
<dholbach> man it was hugday yesterday :)
<bradb> why was that?
<ogra> because dholbach is a hugger :p
<dholbach> because a bug day would have been too boring ;)
<dholbach> we hugged people for every bug they closed successfully
<dholbach> (we invited the community to help out with bug triage)
<dholbach> which was great
<bradb> heh, interesting idea
<dholbach> hi hub_
<\sh> bradb: btw...can I put more LP commands in one mail to malone? so affects /distros/ubuntu/package1 ... affects /distros/ubuntu/package2 ?
<hub_> hi
<dholbach> who wants to be in the desktop team meeting, ... #ubuntu-meeting in two minutes :)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> might be fun reading...
<bradb> \sh: god question. I believe it's intended to work that way, but I'll have to ask BjornT to see if it actually does work that way currently.
<bradb> s/god/good/
<hub_> sorry I'm a tad busy and the laptop is still the suck
<hub_> I haven't finished unpacking
<bradb> \sh_away: According to BjornT, yes, you can use affects multiple times (only one bug report would be opened, but on multiple packages)
<\sh> re
<bipolar> is anyone here maintaining updated mono packages?
<bipolar> some update in ubuntu just broke the binaries from mono-project.com
<jpatrick> \sh: could you look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1013 please?
<dholbach> i'm not involved in mono, but bipolar: what is the problem *exactly*?
<bipolar> dholbach, monodevelop won't start at all. "** ERROR **: file handles.c: line 564 (_wapi_lookup_handle): assertion failed: (shared_handle_data->type == type)
<\sh> bipolar: tseng? slomo?
<tseng> < bipolar> some update in ubuntu just broke the binaries from mono-project.com
<tseng> please dont mix random binaries
<slomo> what binaries?
<dholbach> oh yeah, i misread
<dholbach> mono-project.com is something different
<dholbach> if we tried to care about all the binary stuff in the world, we wouldn't move :(
<bipolar> tseng, this is not a random binary. it's the releases from the mono project. They install in a seperate directory and are self contained.
<\sh> tseng: oh sorry..i misread
<tseng> I dont care who released it
<tseng> it didnt come from ubuntu, we cant possibly be expected to test it etc
<tseng> sorry.
<\sh> jpatrick: looks quite ok..but I can't build right now...no kdelibs4c2 around :)
<bipolar> nice. the ubuntu packages are so far out of date that they won't run monodevelop .9
<tseng> we have very well maintained mono packages *in* ubuntu
<tseng> if you want support please use them
<bipolar> sorry. I have work to do. I can't wait for the mono packages to catch up
<jpatrick> \sh: okay :)
<pef> hello
<slomo> bipolar: paste the backtrace or whatever somewhere and we may look at it
<\sh> jpatrick: punch riddell to fix kde :)
<bipolar> sure. I'll put everything in pastbin.
<jpatrick> \sh: he's busy with the RC2
<pef> just a question about current merges/sync on Universe, should a sync/merge only contains differences from Debian's version ? is it allowed to make others minor changes like bumping Standards-Version or something like this ?
<\sh> jpatrick: i know :)
<slomo> bipolar: and we're not out of date... we actually have monodevelop 0.9 packages since today ;)
<jpatrick> \sh: I've also updated the kxdocker: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1023
<bipolar> slomo, in breezy or dapper?
<tseng> slomo: i think he is using breezy and misunderstands the processs
<dholbach> breezy is released
<dholbach> there are only important (like security) updated going in there
<bipolar> yes. I am using breezy. if I have to upgrade to dapper to get updated packages I'll have to weigh all pros/cons of possible breakage.
<tseng> or you could help out with backporting
<slomo> well... there exist the backports... and we plan to get all the mono stuff backportedn soon
<bipolar> I guess mono is just moving too fast.
<\sh> jpatrick: if/when kdelibs is available again...then I can rebuild all kde stuff I have on my list...even the NEW ones :)
<tseng> \sh: you are nuts :)
<\sh> tseng: believe me when I say I'm doing merges and transitions at the same time...in 8 windows
<\sh> tseng: plus filing bugs :)
<tseng> i do believe you
<pef> hello dholbach \sh
<dholbach> hey pef :)
<jpatrick> \sh: I think line 61 in the rules is wrong
<\sh> i need only a quad intel cpu for one pbuilder for each cpu :)
<tseng> boggle php5.1
<bipolar> OH! you lousy POS
<pef> dholbach: how are you ?
* bipolar kicks himself.
<dholbach> pef: i'm fine :)
* bipolar kicks himself again
<dholbach> pef: doing c++ transition stuff in main
<dholbach> bipolar: tell me if it helps
<pef> dholbach: it means lot of packages
<bipolar> dholbach, it seems it was a path conflict.
<dholbach> pef: not so very much in main
<bipolar> dholbach, I was getting all bent out of shape for nothing. :\
<\sh> dholbach: if u need some help for main crap...please tell...same applies to ogra
<pef> dholbach: what's your opinion on my question about merges/sync ?
<dholbach> bipolar: not to be rude or anything, but i'd have appreciated it, if you'd had been less upset, when you came here :)
<ogra> \sh, kdeedu/games stuff might be something i'll ask you qeustions about...
<bipolar> dholbach, yes. I'm sorry. I'm just really busy and frustrated.
<dholbach> \sh: i didn't get that much assigned, i guess i'm fine, but thanks :)
<\sh> ogra: see my comment on jpatrick...kde is not buildable right now...we're waiting for 3.5rc2 and riddell is fixing it..nasty cups stuff
<ogra> \sh, i know
<dholbach> pef: keep the delta slim, yes :)
<bipolar> dholbach, I'll triple check everything on my end if this happens again.
<\sh> ogra: to be honest...i have a couple of packages assigned to me...which needs badly kde :)
<dholbach> bipolar: no, it's perfectly fine, to make mistakes :)
<pef> dholbach: ok, thanks :)
<ogra> \sh, i'm not in a hurry (yet)
<\sh> ogra: but I...check the list and u know why
<\sh> and I love siretart...only to mention this here...his fetchpackage script is awesom :)
<\sh> e
<\sh> and buildlogs of my current builds: http://motuhome.homelinux.net
<Kyral> hey all
<dholbach> hi Kyral
<Kyral> How was everyone's holiday (if you were on holiday?)
* dholbach wasnt
<Kyral> ah
* dholbach has no thanksgiving over here :)
<dholbach> how was yours?
<Kyral> Good
<Kyral> I went from eating college food to eating food made by my grandma :D
<dholbach> wow, that's an improvement :)
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> I go back to school on Sunday
<Kyral> that also means bugfixing and other Ubuntu stuffs
<Kyral> not that I can do much on this laptop
<herve> hello
<\sh> moins herve
<dholbach> hey herve :)
<herve> houba !
<yosch> hi guys, anyone know how I would force removal of a non-empty folder in a postrm?
<ogra> you dont
<yosch> well it's to remove an empty font cache in a font subfolder, nothing else is in there
<yosch> fixes an apt-get warning
<yosch> it's problematic for font caches, try and uninstall a font package for example
<ogra> if the file belongs to this package, remove this file ... if the dir belongs to this package and nothing else has put anything into it, it should go away with the purge argument anyway
<yosch> purge is what I need then?
<ogra> for font.cache it migh be enough to just update the font cache
<ogra> purge is a user action, you cant force it
<yosch> yes, right
<ogra> try running fc-cache in the postinst of the package, i'm not sure but it might remove the font.cache file in the empty dir
<ogra> look at the font packages that behave sanely and just d whats done there ;(
<ogra> s/;(/;)/
<yosch> not it doesn't get rid of the subcache, which means all the previously installed fonts still leave a /usr/share/fonts/<ttf-foundry-name>/fonts.cache-1
<yosch> my point is I don't think many behave sanely is that regard
<yosch> you try the fonts out and they leave directories behind for no good reason
<ogra> you dont think *many* or you do think *all* ? :)
<pef> dholbach: have you a minute ?
<dholbach> sure
<yosch> sorry I meant /usr/share/fonts/truetype/<ttf-foundry-name>/fonts.cache-1
<yosch> I'm mainly focusing on truetypes now and they all seem to have that behaviour
<ogra> try to find one that behaves different then ;)
<pef> dholbach: when upload a new revision of a package, I should use only use debuild -s, not debuild -s -Sa
<dholbach> -S -sa (if you mean new upstream version)
<pef> dholbach: I mean I do a sync from Debian
<dholbach> if it has a new .orig.tar.gz, yes
<dholbach> no matter where it comes from
<dholbach> new .orig.tar.gz   ->  debuild -S -sa (... other options)
<ogra> but you surely mean a merge, syncs are done by elmo ;)
<\sh> a new revision or a new version?
<pef> \sh: new revision
<\sh> 0.1.2-3 where 3 is revision
<\sh> and 0.1.2 is the version
<pef> yep, new version
<\sh> new revision == no new orig.tar.gz
<yosch> haven't found any bevahing differently
<\sh> new version == new orig.tar.gz which means debuild -S -sa
<\sh> whereas new revision == debuild -S
<dholbach> pef: wihch version do we have?
<pef> 0.6.2-3ubuntu1 in Ubuntu, 0.6-3 in debian
<yosch> sorry s/bevahing/behaving/g
<ogra> yosch, try playing with fc-cache in the postrm ...
<pef> so I need to upload the 0.6.3.orig tarball, right ?
<dholbach> pef: did you get the numbers right?
* dholbach is a bit confused
<\sh> me too
<pef> 0.6.3-4 sorry :)
<dholbach> yeah, so it's a new orig.tar.gz for ubuntu
<\sh> pef: debian == 0.6.3-4?
<dholbach> debuild -S -sa is right
<pef> \sh: yes
<\sh> pef: and what did u change?
<pef> \sh: lasso source package
<\sh> pef: are the changes nescessary?
<pef> \sh: one line on debian/control
<\sh> pef: which line?
<\sh> standards-version?
<pef> \sh: -Depends: phpapi-20020918  becomes ${shlibs:Depends} and  add ${php:Depends}
<\sh> pef: and substvar php: is in the rules defined or in a .substvar file?
<pef> \sh: .subvar file
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> pef: for php4 or php5?
<pef> php4
<Gazer> hi, One of my packages in REVU was accepted in Debian and is in Sid now. I think it could be removed from REVU and sync from debian.
<\sh> pef_aw: hmm...check php4-auth-pam as example...
<\sh> pef_aw: the rules file
<aa_> hi :)
<\sh> anyone with a powerpc online? and can check if /usr/include/wx/platform.h:85:22: error: wx/setup.h: No such file or directory in libwxgtk2.4-dev is correct?
<herve> bye
<slomo> \sh: i'll check... mom
<\sh> slomo: thx man :)
<slomo> /usr/lib/wx/include/gtk-2.4/wx/setup.h
<slomo> \sh: exists
<\sh> hmmm..
<\sh> which version of libwxgtk2.4? dappers?
<slomo> sure
<\sh> strange
<\sh> slomo: check this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/c/ctsim/4.4.2-1ubuntu1/ctsim_4.4.2-1ubuntu1_20051125-1847-powerpc-failed.gz
<slomo> \sh: i'll write it on my todo list
<\sh> slomo: it's strange isn't it?
<\sh> everything is fine, just not the ppc
<\sh> and it's not even an issue in ctsim
<\sh> In file included from /usr/include/wx/defs.h:19,
<\sh>                  from /usr/include/wx/wxprec.h:13,
<\sh> this is not the same include path u told me
<\sh> Setting up libwxgtk2.4-1 (2.4.4.1ubuntu1) ...
<\sh> Setting up wx2.4-headers (2.4.4.1ubuntu1) ...
<\sh> Setting up libwxgtk2.4-dev (2.4.4.1ubuntu1) ...
<slomo> \sh: no... it's not strange ;) -I/usr/lib/wx/include/gtk-2.4 is missing imho
<\sh> these are the packages
<\sh> but only on ppc
<slomo> hmm
<\sh> i386, amd64 are fine
<slomo> ok, it's on top of my todo list now =)
<\sh> hehehe
<\sh> I owe u one :)
<\sh> or more?
<ajmitch> hi
<slomo> \sh: one is fine, thanks :)
<slomo> hi ajmitch
<\sh> slomo: k :)
* \sh needs a ppc somehow....well
<slomo> buy a mac mini... it's small, silent and has more power than my ibook ;)
* ajmitch only has a 400MHz G3 that doesn't belong to him
<ajmitch> slomo: probably a good idea :)
<ajmitch> stack a few of them up as a build cluster ;)
* \sh has to make a pause
<slomo> ajmitch: hm, actually a very good idea ;) who has the money?
<ajmitch> not me!
<ajmitch> I see \sh is singlehandedly doing all the merges himself
<\sh> hehe..and transitions
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> you scare me ;)
<\sh> I scare myself more then I scare u :)
<ajmitch> haha
<slomo> \sh: at least i can reproduce the problem ;) hmm
<\sh> slomo: hmmm....
<slomo> \sh: want a clean fix or a hack? ;)
<\sh> slomo: something wrong in the wxgtk package?
<slomo> \sh: i guess it will compile fine when i add the correct include path to CFLAGS
<\sh> I would bet it's the wxgtk package
<\sh> but only for ppc :) the others are fine :)
<slomo> i don't like wx ;)
<\sh> well...lets put a CFLAGS line for ppc and reupload
<slomo> i'm trying that now
<\sh> dirty hacks are my speciality..."at least it works(tm)"
<\sh> i need really a small pause
<thierry> is it normal that in package gnome-panel-data, there's "DocPath= " and nothing after it?
<yosch> ogra: thanks for your help I think my postrm works now, I'll be back tomorrow bye.
<dholbach> thierry: you'd better ask that in #ubuntu-desktop
<\sh> ok..new run
<dholbach> have a nice weekend, motus!
<Kyral> cya
<Seveas> any motu alive for a noob question?
<Kyral> How about a MOTUWannabe?
<dholbach> fire away
<Seveas> a package around libfoo.so.1.0.0 should be named libfoo1, right?
<slomo> \sh: thanks for transition of dirac :)
<\sh> slomo: you're welcome :)
<Kyral> I am afraid how many Dapper updates will be waiting for me on Sunday
<dholbach> Seveas: generally yes, but there is other stuff to be taken into account too
<\sh> it was just on the list...in my way so to say :)
<Seveas> dholbach, 'other stuff' for example?
<dholbach> Seveas: like some versions of libraries are installable parallely, then you'll get a different versioning scheme
<slomo> \sh: anyway... you have time for it... and i fight with some broken code ;)
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> well, there is only one version of this lib :)
<slomo> \sh: so thanks... i owe you a beer now :P
<\sh> slomo: TIME???? I ... I have to clean my flat tomorrow :)
<\sh> slomo: ok...u fix ctsim..:)
<dholbach> Seveas: lintian will complain, if it doesnt agree with the versioning ;)
<Seveas> check :)
<slomo> \sh: i have to clean too tomorrow :P and i fix ctsim, yes... but it could take some time ;) currently i'm working on banshee
<Seveas> thanks for the answers, the result will pop up in REVU tomorrow ;)
<dholbach> good night guys
<slomo> gn8 daniel :)
<Seveas> night
<\sh> slomo: don't worry..actually it's from the list...and bugfixing we can do after UVF/FF
<slomo> \sh: well, i like to do hard stuff :)
<\sh> slomo: hmm.u should work for my company :)
<\sh> for former company..but this I will know just before xmas
<\sh> s/for/or/
<Kyral> Hey LJ
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<LaserJock> Kyral: how was the turkey?
<Kyral> good :D
<LaserJock> same here, and my birthday was on the 18th so I got some birthday cake too
<Kyral> lol how old are you now?
<\sh> slomo: you fixed banshee :)
<slomo> \sh: not really... partially
<LaserJock> Kyral: 24 now, I am kinda feeling old a little bit. I am almost done with my Phd though and that will be nice
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> 20
<Kyral> don't say you are feeling old shoot
<\sh> LaserJock: 24? only?
<\sh> kids
<\sh> :)
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> how old are you sh?
<\sh> Kyral: in january I will be 35
<Kyral> and you call yourself old? :P
<\sh> it depends :)
<LaserJock> well, I fell older than I am
<\sh> sometimes yes..sometimes no
<LaserJock> s/fell/feel/
<LaserJock> it depends who you are around ;-)
<\sh> with 24 I was responsible for over 10 ciscos and 5 companies depending on our company...:)
<\sh> and our network
<spacey> and now more responsibility or less? ;)
<spacey> almost ready to be put away in old folks home
<spacey> ;p
<\sh> hmm..now I'm responsible for theoretically 4 million customers
<spacey> ok
<spacey> that sounds quite ok
<spacey> or sounds like little sleep
<\sh> yes..but I'm old in times of IT
<\sh> spacey: don't remind me ... I'm waiting every single second for a call from the company..
<spacey> ;)
<\sh> and it's bloody windy outside and I don't want to walk to our NOC
<spacey> aha, at least you live close by ;)
<\sh> 30 mins walking
<\sh> 10 mins biking
<\sh> but my bike has flat tires..so walking :)
<herve> re
<\sh> re herve...where are the uploads? :)
<herve> I made one a few days ago :-)
<\sh> do more :)
<\sh> just joking..how is life?
<herve> no, you're right
<herve> but, answering your second question
<herve> life is busy
<herve> I've got a big rush for releasing a new website design and a new major version
<herve> plus a project ending at job
<herve> so it's bugs bugs bugs + politics
<\sh> oh well..sounds like fun :) just as in my company nowadays
<herve> you're still enjoying your job?
<\sh> the cable tv company? sure...but it looks like because of the merger with another company, that we will have some surprises before xmas...means it can be, that I'm going to be fired
<\sh> because some people have to move from engineering to operations
<\sh> and headcounts are counted...so one or two of my team have to leave the company....depending on the social status and the time being employed for this company...i'm a good candidate...
<herve> find a job at deutsch telekom ;-)
<\sh> herve: oh much better...
<\sh> herve: they're firing as well
<herve> yes, bad humour
<herve> speaking of uploading
<herve> may I fix easytag?
<herve> its requiring a lib versionned before the allocator transition
<\sh> herve: do what ever u want :) merge/transition? if so , file bugs against malone and the product
<herve> for now I'd like to kill updatedb...
<slomo> herve: hehe, i know that feeling ;)
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> do i merge the rest of letter "e" on the MoM list, or should I stop right now...
<herve> slomo, and given that it started to bug me every day suddenly
<Kyral> I haven't checked my mail since Tuesday...I'm kinda scared to see how much will be there on Sunday
<herve> how many spam? :-)
<Kyral> no
<Kyral> how many from the MLs
<\sh> Kyral: I think I spamed today the universe-bugs list
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> This is why I have them going to my GMail Account :P
<Kyral> unless you somehow generated over 2 GB worth :D
<\sh> and dapper changes as well
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> this is why I am dreading :P
<Kyral> I'd wager over 1000 emails
<Kyral> and all the Dapper updates themselves
<Kyral> has a new X entered Dapper yet?
* tseng hands Kyral dapper-updates, packages.ubuntu.com, etc
<Kyral> If I had access to those I wouldn't ask
<Kyral> well, I actually hadn't thought of packages.ubuntu.com
<tseng> gmane.org?
<Kyral> wazzat?
<tseng> ...
<Kyral> seriously
<tseng> archives mailing lists
<Kyral> ah
<tseng> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/
<tseng> but even better ^
<Kyral> Oh I was just wondering
<Kyral> I'll find out on Sunday
<Kyral> if I really wanted to find out I would dist-upgrade this laptop
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-01
<herve> good night
<raphink> anyone to review konq-kim, konq-toutf8 and kio-sword?
<raphink> they have already been aproved once... just needs one more
<raphink> \sh: would you have some time to review them?
<\sh> yes...but not now anymore...I just made my final tests for kdelibs3.5 so it's over now for me at least at this special hour
<zakame> morning all
<zakame> hi slomo
<LaserJock> I don't know if anybody would be interested but a packaging guide has been added to doc.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> Oh so its going?
<Kyral> I thought I was to help?
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh, don't worry. It is just started
<Kyral> okay
<Kyral> I don't want to be left out of the fun :P
<Kyral> anyone know how I would untargz all the tarballs in one dir with one command?
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> how's it going?
<bmonty> too much leftover Turkey :)
<bmonty> you?
<schweeb> (no need to capitalize turkey, unless you're talking about the country :P)
<bmonty> ok, thanks professor :)
<LaserJock> yes, the turkey was good. Lots of mashed potatoes, mmmm
<bmonty> my feet already hurt thinking of the extra miles I'll have to run next week to make up for this weekend
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> well, that baby ought to keep you going soon enough
<bmonty> nah, I just get to have fun with him...the wife is the one that gets to get up a couple times every hours to feed him
<bmonty> I need an extra set of eyes on a Python script: http://www.montynet.org/UbuntuMirrorModule.py
<bmonty> it parses the Ubuntu mirror list, but only works correctly for a couple of the countries
<bmonty> I can't figure out why if it works for one country it doesn't work for all
<LaserJock> any gpg masters about?
<bmonty> LaserJock: I might be able to help
<LaserJock> I'm just trying to figure out if my key is acceptable
<bmonty> in what way?
<LaserJock> I would like to go for Ubuntu membership soon and it says that I need to be a part of the "strong set"
<LaserJock> but I'm not really sure what that means
<LaserJock> or if that is really true
<bmonty> being part of the strong set has to do with the signatures on your key
<bmonty> I think the wiki says that the key you use for signing changes has to be in the strong set
<bmonty> brb
<LaserJock> k
<Kyral> LJ when are you going for Membership?
<LaserJock> maybe next CC meeting, I haven't decided
<Kyral> When is that?
<bmonty> LaserJock: maybe I'll go with you :)
<LaserJock> I have to be a member to get commit access for the doc team rpo
<Kyral> bmonty: you a member?
<bmonty> Kyral: no, not yet
<LaserJock> Kyral: 2005-12-06 14:00 GMT
<seth_k|lappy> LaserJock, it's not actually true (re: strong set required for membership)
<Kyral> ......thats what......1100 EST
<seth_k|lappy> You just need strong set for upload rights, but not for plain vanilla membership
* Kyral looks
<LaserJock> seth_k|lappy: what about for MOTU?
<Kyral> I hope I don't have a final
<Kyral> wait thats December 6th?
<Kyral> what day is that?
<seth_k|lappy> LaserJock, yeah you need to be in the strong set for MOTU
<bmonty> LaserJock: when you upload a source package, you sign the changes file
<bmonty> that key has to be in the strong set
<bmonty> being in the strong set means getting signatures on your key
<LaserJock> yeah, I understand I just want to find out how I get in the strong set
<bmonty> if you get signatures from people with a lot of signatures on their key, it makes it easier to be in the strong set
<Kyral> Damnit
<Kyral> AGAIN!
<Kyral> They schedule the meeting when i have class
<Kyral> WTF?!
<Kyral> oy....
<LaserJock> I got it signed by somebody from my uni that was in the "strong set" according to biglumber.com but it says that I'm not in the strong set
<bmonty> strong set is another way of saying, my key is signed by several people who have verified my identity
<Kyral> I got mine signed by dholback
<Kyral> err
<Kyral> dholbach even :D
<bmonty> LaserJock: just because they are in the strong set won't necessarily put you in the strong set
<LaserJock> bmonty: that's what I'm not getting
<Kyral> so wait
<Kyral> the meeting is Dec 6th, 1100 EST?
<LaserJock> oh, well. as long as it doesn't prevent me from being a Member I'm OK for now
<bmonty> LaserJock: the keyanalyze report might not have updated yet to show your key
<bmonty> I think the only run it once per month
<Kyral> ....can I get an answer?
<bmonty> Kyral: check the topic on #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> Kyral: I think so. fridge.ubuntu.com also has it
<bmonty> or the calendar on the fridge
<Kyral> damnit
<Kyral> again when I'm in class
<LaserJock> skip it >:)
<Kyral> I can't
<Kyral> I don't skip classes
<bmonty> they alternate the meeting times, and there is something on -devel about changing the times
<Kyral> Wait a sec
<Kyral> I have a terminal
<LaserJock> Kyral: me neither but I thought I would give it a try
<Kyral> I can SSH to my computer
<Kyral> and reattach the running irssi session to the terminal
* bmonty sees Kyral sitting in a lecture furiously typing
<LaserJock> bmonty: so who decides who is in the strong set?
<bmonty> LaserJock: as far as I understand it the strong set is based on the minimum distance from your key to another key
<Kyral> bmonty: its a computer class anyway
<bmonty> so if my key is signed by someone who has also signed your key, the distance is 2
<bmonty> if your mean distance to other keys is less than some value that I can't remember you are in the strong set
<bmonty> or something like that, its been awhile since I read about it
<Kyral> where is this keyanalyzer thingy
<bmonty> google
<Kyral> no
<bmonty> google is your friend
<LaserJock> crap, Mean distance to this key from strong set:   7.0675
<Kyral> LJ what is it :P
<LaserJock> biglumber.com
<LaserJock> is there a strong set just for Ubuntu?
<bmonty> I don't think so
<bmonty> I think the strong set is those keys which have a mean distance to other keys less than 5
<bmonty> not sure on that though...
<LaserJock> for the guy that signed my key it says:
<LaserJock> This key is in the strong set.
<LaserJock> Mean distance to this key from strong set:   6.0675
<Kyral> aw screw it
<bmonty> like I said, the details are fuzzy.
<bmonty> the same site that has the keyanalyze report has a description of how they generate the stats
<LaserJock> Kyral: your at http://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/ka/2005-11-13/0F/0F1A6639 if your interested
<Kyral> 5 eh?
<Kyral> Issat close enough?
<Kyral> Ho I guess it is
<LaserJock> ahh, I might of found a problem. My key wasn't self signed until just recently
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> I self signed like 3 times
<Kyral> LJ I think the two most active members of MOTUScience should go for membership together
<LaserJock> Kyral: that would be good, make sure your wiki page is spiffy
<Kyral> it is
<Kyral> look
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisPeterman
<LaserJock> you might want to put some more detail though under what you have done for teams, etc.
<Kyral> Two packages sitting in REVU
<Kyral> a crapload of Forums activity
<Kyral> PNYTeam isn't really going to go active until next semester
<LaserJock> mine is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
<Kyral> I need to get sponsors though
<LaserJock> Kyral: but you might want to put some more examples of those
<Kyral> Yah
<Kyral> like the fact that EasyChem and FlowDesigner are both in REVU?
<Kyral> I think EasyChem is actually bulletproof
<Kyral> I just need people to look them over
<LaserJock> yeah they want to see activity and they want they want to see that activity over time
* Kyral points to the Forums
<Kyral> It ain't easy pulling 1600+ posts
<LaserJock> well, but I think maybe just pointing there isn't enough. Maybe link to some particularlly good examples ;-)
<LaserJock> but of course I could be wrong ;-)
<Kyral> I dunno
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> If I'm wrong they will tell me lol
<LaserJock> yeah, at least it's not a one shot kinda deal, they let you try again
<bmonty> time for bed...good night everyone
<lamont-away> libapache-mod-cgi-debug needs to build-depend libdb4.3-dev, not 4.2
<lamont-away> Unpacking gnokii (from .../gnokii_0.6.8-0.2_hppa.deb) ...
<lamont-away> /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 6: /usr/sbin/addgroup: No such file or directory
<lamont-away> dpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-dapper/chroot-dapper/var/cache/apt/archives/gnokii_0.6.8-0.2_hppa.deb (--unpack):
<lamont-away> bad gnokii
<hub_> is it allowed to upload to universe a more recent version of a lib in main?
<hub_> that has a different binary package name?
<Cars> http://www.LuxuryCarForums.com
<crimsun> roit.
<raphink> hi
<crimsun> hi
<raphink> :)
<raphink> Riddell proposed one of my packages should maybe have compat level 5. How do I know about that?
<crimsun> echo -n 5 > debian/compat
<crimsun> also check debian/rules to see if it sets DH_COMPAT explicitly
<raphink> hmm no
<raphink> my debian/rules is made with cdbs
<raphink> there's nothing in it about DH_COMPAT
<raphink> and my debian/compat is set to 4 by default
<raphink> my question is not how I should set it
<raphink> I know that
<raphink> but rather
<raphink> why?
<crimsun> why should you set it? To keep current with "best practices" in Debian
<raphink> hmm ok
<StevenK> Hah, I suspect not many people have punted to debhelper compat level five yet.
<raphink> and so what "best practice" would justify that I set compat to 5 on my package and not on others?
<raphink> what does it change?
<crimsun> you're probably fine with 4 for a little while longer at least
<crimsun> raphink: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debhelper/debhelper_5.0.7/changelog
<raphink> Riddell said it should be discussed here whether to use 5
<crimsun> according to joey, one of the larger changes is allowing comments in debhelper files, but StevenK may have further [clarified]  insight...
<raphink> that means it works with debhelper 5?
<raphink> hmmm ok
<StevenK> crimsun: My feeling is "Let's give Joey a month or so to put in changes for DH_COMPAT 5."
<crimsun> :)
<raphink> ok
<raphink> so I'll keep level 4 so far
<raphink> anyone has time to review some packages ? ;)
<crimsun> I'll be happy to look in a bit. I need to merge a few more packages.
* StevenK is still waiting for his address to be whitelisted before he starts sponsor-whoring.
<StevenK> And I need to bitch at Daniel Stone about my inventor merge.
<Lathiat> hey StevenK :)
<raphink> crimsun: ok :)
* StevenK waves at Lathiat.
<StevenK> Whee, a 182K debdiff between 0.9.5ubuntu1 and 0.10.2ubuntu1
<sivang> Hey Folks
<raphink> hi sivang
<sivang> pitti pinged me on friday, anybody know what he wanted?
<sivang> hey raphink
* raphink is out to get some screws :)
* StevenK wonders if he should interpret that badly or not.
<crimsun> re daniel
<StevenK> Dear. Was it something we said?
<crimsun> hehe, I don't think so, 'twas just asking mdz/kamion to NEW the libstdc++ allocator transition packages for libglibmm
<crimsun> StevenK: (you probably want to be in #ubuntu-devel, too)
<StevenK> I do?
<crimsun> StevenK: yeah, all the core developers discuss Important Stuff there
<siretart> morning
<dholbach> have a nice WE
* dholbach is off
<Treenaks> bye
<siretart> crimsun: around?
<\sh> moins siretart
<siretart> huhu \sh
<siretart> \sh: shall we phone about the imap stuff?
<\sh> siretart: forget about that for the moment...
<crimsun> siretart: pong
<siretart> \sh: okay
<siretart> crimsun: I'm currently looking at ecasound2.2, you touched it during breezy cycle, remember?
<crimsun> siretart: right.
<\sh> siretart: I'll have to test it here first...before I setup something on tiber...I think xml generation from mails is better and then provide a xmlrpc interface
<siretart> \sh: I stronly suggest that, too!
<siretart> crimsun: I'm a bit confused
<\sh> siretart: so I can switch easily from my syntax to LP xmlrpc interface
<siretart> crimsun: in the changelog, you say 'Build against python2.4-dev and libjack0.80.0-dev.' But the resulting diff is 350k big
<crimsun> holy
<siretart> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ecasound2.2/
<siretart> may I ask you to do this merge? ;)
<\sh> aeh
<crimsun> sure. (The Debian patch is approximately that size, too)
<\sh> the dropped patch is 204k
<\sh> siretart: u could use the new debian package..
<\sh> siretart: and merge from there
<\sh> most of the stuff is autotools dance crap
<crimsun> yeah, that's what I'm doing
<crimsun> siretart: I'll merge it, no prob
<siretart> crimsun: thanks
<crimsun> config.log is a "winner"
<yosch> hi guys, I couldn't find a way to get the debian changelog compressed (dh_compress) but not the other docs (like plain text and pdf bits) any pointers to docs I may have missed?
<siretart> if the debian/changelog is reasonably small, dh_compress wont compress it
<yosch> there's only one entry so far but it's bound to grow (as the policy says)
<yosch> is there a dh_ command to *only* compress the changelog?
<yosch> or do I need a lintian override? some pointers on how to do that?
<\sh> does anybody know where bddebian is?
<\sh> i didn't see him for some time now
<crimsun> he was on a couple weeks ago apologising for not being more involved due to real life
<\sh> ah
<\sh> hope he is well
<pef> for french people : http://www.fsffrance.org/news/article2005-11-25.fr.html :/
<pef> opensources software may become illegal in France
<\sh> why?
<pef> \sh: opensource software don't have a system to controle and trace people's activites, and some big companies don't like this
<\sh> this I don't understand...control and trace people? how should software do this?
<siretart> pef: are they argumenting with criminal prosecution or with copyright enforcement?
<ogra> spyware ?
<\sh> ogra: software never will control and trace people
<\sh> not in 100 years
<pef> siretart: yes
<siretart> pef: which one of the two?
<crimsun> but beware, in 101 years python6.66 ...
<ogra> \sh, proxies, firewalls already do ... spyware as well ...
<pef> siretart: it may become a crime to contribute/write opensource software, you can get fines and go to jail
<pef> \sh: they are complaining that opensource software cannot contains such systems because of their source code availibility
<ogra> thats nonsense
<\sh> ogra: how are firewalls and spyware control and trace people? they can trace and control the actions when people are using a computer
<\sh> pef: well....that's crap
<ogra> squid offers full logging, so you can track every employees online activity ... same goes for linux based firewalls
<pef> for the moment in France, you can copy a music cd you bought, to convert it in mp3 for your ipod, or a copy to put in your car, but this will become illegal, illegal to bypass protections
<\sh> pef: sidewinder from securecomputing as really good piece of firewalling...they're using a modified version of BSD..BSD is opensource..
<ogra> pef, it already is in germany ... but that doesnt make oss illegal
<ogra> it makes certain procedures to circumvent copy protection illegal, but that applies to closed source as well
<pef> the worst is this "law" will be decided on december...22nd and 23th :/
<siretart> which X11 header contains X11/bitmaps/gray?
<azeem> bitmaps
<azeem> eh, xbitmaps
<azeem> (at least according to packages.u.c)
<siretart> thanks
<pef> http://www.eucd.info/index.php?2005/11/14/177-droit-d-auteur-eucdinfo-%20devoile-le-plan-d-attaque-des-majors traduction of the requests :
<pef> forbid all software providing information which can be protected by copyright ? (droit d'auteur)  and doesn't allowing systems to trace and control private usage
<pef> forbid promotion of theses software
<pef> bypassing theses rules can result in penal issues
<pef> webradios must have crypt/protections systems
<\sh> siretart: not enlightenment, right?
<pef> a general system to collect privates dialogs
<pef> filter system with ISP
<siretart> \sh: sorry?
<\sh> siretart: enlightenment needed a xbitmaps as well....I thought u are working on it :)
<\sh> actually it's waiting for upload now and here
<siretart> \sh: no, I'm working on drscheme
<\sh> ah
<\sh> siretart: he should have tested by himself...he's asking everytime for "advise" because mr.back never tests
<\sh> siretart: python-apt ,)
<siretart> \sh: ah, I see
<siretart> I'm wating for the day he needs to revert a backport
<siretart> waiting
<\sh> siretart: i have to have a look on his rules..reading the last mails about this script etc. I don't have a good feeling if somebody is doing some backports when we never heard about this guy
<\sh> crimsun: can u file a bug on ecasound..so that is magically disappearing from the mom list on revu?
<zakame> evening all
<zakame> hi ogra
<crimsun> \sh: will do.
<zakame> crimsun: ping, can you please check malone 4114 and malone 4115, both syncs... thanks :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4114: pdftk: merge new debian version Fix req. for: pdftk (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4114
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4115: piuparts: merge new debian version Fix req. for: piuparts (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4115
<crimsun> zakame: sure, I just need to file (and close) bugs for all these merges I've done, so it'll be a bit
<zakame> crimsun: no problem, I can wait :) many thanks
<StevenK> \sh: In relation to your latest blog post, I'm IRCing from a dual athlon. :-)
<herve> morning
<herve> (ouch, it's 2 in the evening!)
<zakame> hi herve
<zakame> 'tis 9 pm here in .ph
<crimsun> 8am here ;-)
<\sh> herve: 2 in the evening?
<\sh> herve: you mean afternoon :)
<herve> yay, english time naming sucks ;-)
<azeem> herve: are you spanish?
<herve> no, french
<azeem> ah, ok
<herve> my spanish is so far away
<jpatrick> I speak Spanish
<zakame> my old folks speak spanish, and they're trying to teach me
<herve> you lucky
<herve> I'd like to learn german that way
<\sh> herve: kein problem :)
<herve> not my parents but a german girlfriend ;-)
<\sh> herve: I thought the language of love is well known in every part of our world...
<herve> don't worry, I have plans ;-)
<\sh> herve: lucky guy :)
<bmonty> good morning everyone
<jpatrick> morning
<herve> hello
<zakame> hey bmonty
<zakame> how's the merging? :)
<bmonty> I haven't had much time to play with it since last weekend
<bmonty> I was going to try and clean up some of the packages that got uploaded last week
<\sh> hey bmonty
<bmonty> hi \sh
<bmonty> if a package is failing to build because of build depends being broken, will it keep trying until the build succeeds?
<\sh> bmonty: i think 2 or 3 times and then it has to be given back by buildd admin manually
<bmonty> ok, there are several packages that were uploaded last week that were failing to build because of KDE depends
<\sh> ah yes
<\sh> I think next week when kde3.5 is stablized, they will have a mass give-back session
<\sh> actually what u can do is test those failed packages against the new kdelibs
<bmonty> will do
<bmonty> also, are there some issues with the ia64 and amd64 buildds? They seem to be failing to fetch packages from the archives.
<crimsun> mm malone boog.
<\sh> yepp...some sideeffects..hope the buildd admins will sort them out...can be that there are also some problems with FTBFS packages for amd64 and ppc
<\sh> crimsun: what?
<\sh> package missin?
<\sh> g
<bmonty> \sh: I was looking for FTBFS, but the errors I am seeing are failing to fetch packages that I know exist
<\sh> bmonty: then it's buildd issue...
<bmonty> \sh: would you mind taking a quick look at a python script for me?
<\sh> bmonty: can do
<bmonty> http://www.montynet.org/UbuntuMirrorModule.py
<bmonty> I'm having problems with the parsing function, it works for almost all the sections on the web page, but doesn't find any of the mirror listings for the last three countries in the list
<bmonty> I can't figure out why it works for almost all the sections but fails on the last three
<crimsun> \sh: malone doesn't think that libterralib is a valid source package name
<\sh> crimsun: ah yes
<\sh> crimsun: join #launchpad and ping kiko...he added some of the missing packages I had :)
<crimsun> \sh: ok, thanks
<\sh> crimsun: they didn't imported the new dapper packages until now
<\sh> bmonty: last three?
<\sh> bmonty: which ones?
<bmonty> Turkey, United Kingdom, United States
<bmonty> there formatting appears to be the same as the rest of the sections
<bmonty> s/there/their
<\sh> bmonty: two spaces between <p> and <a
<\sh> bmonty: p_reg_mirror = re.compile("<li><p> <a href=\"(?P<proto>.*)://(?P<url>.*)\"><img src=\"/htdocs/ubuntu/img/u-www.png\" alt=\"\\[WWW\\] \" height=\"16\" width=\"16\"> [^<] .*</a> </p>")
<\sh> is wrong
<\sh> do a <li><p>\s+<a...
<bmonty> \sh: nice catch
<bmonty> thanks
<\sh> bmonty: you're welcome
<bmonty> I spent hours looking at that stupid bug last night, and I missed that space
<\sh> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<\sh>   imlib11-dev: Depends: libpng12-dev but it is not going to be installed
<\sh> hmm?
<azeem> try to install libpng12-dev and see if there is an issue, perhaps?
<\sh> oh damn...I just read imlib11-dev is depending on imlib12-dev *lol*
<\sh> in my dapper chroot it's ok...strange
<zakame> crimsun, \sh : may I interrupt you a bit to check libmemcache in revu for me? I remember siretart or sispoty doing the build, but no reviews yet :(
<crimsun> zakame: I'm still filing and closing merge bugs, and I still have to process the ones you requested above ;-)
<zakame> crimsun: oh, sorry about that :( another time then :)
<yosch> any you of pakaging gurus know why a change of section is my control file is not picked up? is that stored in a cache?
<bmonty> yosch: did you rebuild the source package?
<\sh> debuild ?
<yosch> say upstream is freeing up something: a previously non-free section becomes free, why would the change not get picked up?
<zakame> yosch: could you post a paste?
<yosch> bmonty: yes rebuilding the source
<zakame> err, post something to pastebin
<yosch> well I have "Section: x11" instead of "Section: non-free/x11"
<yosch> is there another place where this is set?
<zakame> hmm, you have only one `Section:' on debian/control, right? or does each binary pkg have a `Section:'?
<yosch> apt-cache and synaptic show the rest of the changed package metada fine but not the section
<bmonty> malone #4574 is ready for review and upload
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
<herve> isn't fam dead?
<herve> in favor of gamin?
<bmonty> herve: its in universe and there are people still using it
<ogra> gamin doesnt work over nfs
<herve> ok
<zakame> but NEW pkgs should build with gamin right?
<ogra> i.e. if your home is on nfs ...
<ogra> yup
<yosch> zakame: mm, there's only one Section: and one Package:
<\sh> bmonty: fam debdiff is against debians fam package...as I understand it?
<zakame> yosch: errr... what package is this?
<bmonty> \sh: yes
<zakame> hmmm, francine has a rather unique orig tarball... is this really a debian-native pkg?
<\sh> bmonty: can u do a merge of the changelog files between our package and the debian package...when we leave the ubuntu versioning but merging debian we need to merge the changelogs as well...or sync
<bmonty> \sh: ok, fam can't be synced
<\sh> bmonty: then merge the changelog pls :)
<yosch> zakame: I'm packaging the Gentium Unicode font (with the upstream will be released under a free license) and obsoleting the non-free http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/x11/ttf-gentium
<yosch> is the section cached somewhere?
<zakame> hmm, prolly it is your package cache, it still has the previous version registered to it
<yosch> OK, that's what I thought, so how do I re-initialize that cache?
<yosch> btw, I showed the font and its license to the sabdfl last week, and he liked it :-D
<yosch> of course, a dpkg --info *.deb shows the right section
<bmonty> grr...now fam is FTBFS on dapper :(
<\sh> lol
<\sh> bmonty: because of what?
<bmonty> DNotify.c++:126: error: 'realloc' was not declared in this scope
<bmonty> same for 'free'
<bmonty> I think there might be a patch in debian bts :)
<zakame> err, I need help with francine, its source package seems to be... misversioned (if there ever is such a word)
<herve> why would busybox continue to run after booting?
<herve> and it is eating up cpu
<herve_> ok, now I'm in "diagnosing memory leaks" mode
<zakame> never mind francine, I just visited the debian source, it really has that version... I ought to ping the DD about renaming and turning as a non-native pkg
<bmonty> \sh: I think I fixed fam :)
<zakame> nightcap... please check malone 4766 sync, thanks, and good night!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4766: francine: merge new debian version Fix req. for: francine (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4766
<Kyral> lol
<yosch> alrigh my package's done, I'll submit in to Universe shortly, bye guys
<siretart> hunger: I just reviewed your xen package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=939
<siretart> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi siretart
<siretart> LaserJock: are there any problems with the motu-science list? I didn't see any post on it
<LaserJock> siretart: well, that's because I've been busy with some other stuff
<siretart> okay.
<siretart> just tell me if you experience any problems
<LaserJock> siretart: so far I was able to do the configuration and everythin ok. Really nice
<LaserJock> anybody know what time dholbach is usually on?
<ogra> main merges i guess
<siretart> LaserJock: he was here until about lunchtime, I expect him back on monday
<Riddell> siretart: about?
<siretart> Riddell: huh?
<LaserJock> hmm, ok. Do you know if he usually goes to the CC meetings. I was thinking of going for membership next meeting and I wondered if he would be there.
<Riddell> siretart: ytannus here is trying something with revu but I'm not sure what
<siretart> Riddell: intersting. where is he?
<ytannus> hello!
<ytannus> right here
<siretart> ah, hi ytannus
<ytannus> hi siretart
<siretart> whats up?
<ytannus> I can't login to http://revu.tauware.de, I got "login for user "ytannus" failed, please retry or recover"
<Riddell> I'm not sure where ytannus got his password from and I recon he needs to be added to the keychain first
<siretart> ytannus: did you already upload something to revu?
<ytannus> riddell: I don't have password just I following the instruction at wiki.kubuntu.org/REVU
<Riddell> ytannus: but you can't log in without a password
<ytannus> it say: "After your first upload, you will be automatically registered to the database and assigned a random password."
<Riddell> ytannus: are you logging in to ftp or the website?
<ytannus> some minutes ago I put 2 packages into ftp://ncftp revu.tauware.de/incoming using anonymous account
<ytannus> by the way, can you remove those packages... are not signed
<siretart> ytannus: please only upload with dput
<siretart> ytannus: and please no binary .debs. We cannot review .debs, only source packages
<ytannus> aah, understood....hmm, my main idea was upload debs.. :(
<siretart> ytannus: on your first accepted upload an account will be created for you. then you can recover your password
<siretart> ytannus: no, we cannot upload .debs to ubuntu. everything is compiled from source
<ytannus> perfect, so no more debs :) , I will take a look to the bugs then...
<ytannus> thanks for your time
<siretart> nm
<ytannus> thanks riddell
<Riddell> ytannus: you'll get your key into revu and upload source then?
<ytannus> i will try...
<ytannus> I sen my key to keyring@tiber.tauware.de some minutes ago... I will spect the answer...
<Riddell> groovy
<siretart> ytannus: what is your keyid?
<ytannus> hmm, I have a question, if I can only upload sources, then I can upload only my own applications, right?
<ytannus> 0xB9CF1A97
<Riddell> ytannus: no, upload anyone's so long as it's Free Software
<siretart> gpgkeys: key B9CF1A97 not found on keyserver
<siretart> ytannus: please upload your key to keyring.ubuntu.com
<ytannus> do you know some good tutorial to start to create kde application?
<siretart> kde.org has a lot of tutorials, I remember
<ytannus> siretart: ok....
<ytannus> gpg: sending key B9CF1A97 to hkp server keyring.ubuntu.com
<ytannus> ?: keyring.ubuntu.com: Host not found
<ytannus> gpgkeys: unable to connect to `keyring.ubuntu.com'
<ytannus> :S
<siretart> argl
<siretart> its keyserver.ubuntu.com
<siretart> sorry
<ytannus> ;)
<ytannus> gpg: sending key B9CF1A97 to hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com
<ytannus> done
<ytannus> Reinhard Tartler?
<siretart> yes, thats me
<ytannus> wel, thank's for your help...
<siretart> ytannus: you can proceed with uploading now
<ytannus> forst I have to learn how to create kde apps :)
<Riddell> ytannus: you have the packages, just debuild -S  and dput revu foo.changes
<Riddell> siretart: could you change the revu comment form to a POST instead of a GET?
<ytannus> hmmm... what abot only sources uploads?
<ytannus> I'm confused :(
<Riddell> ytannus: debuild -S will only make the source packages (which == a .diff file a .orig file and a .dsc file)
<Riddell> actually debuild -S -sa  is needed to get the .orig uploaded
<ytannus> ops, I thought that -S was for -Signed :D... rtfm rules
<Riddell> it will sign unless you tell it not to, so long as it can find gpg and a kay matching the name and e-mail in the top changelog entry
<siretart> Riddell: hm, I think I encountered problems with that
<Riddell> siretart: well don't if it's any bother, but it's been annoying me for ages :)
<siretart> Riddell: me, too, believe me..
<ytannus> :( bad luck: dpkg -S kurses_0.1-1_i386.deb
<ytannus> dpkg: *kurses_0.1-1_i386.deb* not found.
<ogra> -S is for files, not for packages ...
<ogra> it finds the package to a file
<ytannus> :)
<ytannus> thanks
<ogra> dpkg -S /etc/nanorc for example give you nano
<ytannus> really is hard to find a compete howto....
<Riddell> ytannus: make notes of the stuff you didn't find documentation for and add it to the appropriate wiki pages
<siretart> most howto's I've read are really really verbose ;)
<ytannus> riddell: I was thinking in that way
<ytannus> siretart: :)
<\sh> siretart: are you breaking avifile?
<LaserJock> ytannus: you might try doc.ubuntu.com. It has a new (aka work in progress) packaging guide.
<siretart> \sh: I think I've given enough time to ubuntu-devel to object
<\sh> siretart: please provide a list of packages which will need some rebuild love
<\sh> somehow I'm tired:)
<siretart> \sh: if you insist on it, sure. But I think we should rather focus on minimizing the diff to debian
<\sh> siretart: no it's ok with me :) but we need to make sure to have not a big list of unmet deps after UVF
<\sh> siretart: I don't want to bring in new upstream stuff after UVF ( if I can avoid it )
<siretart> \sh: thats the reason why I wanted that upload this week, but I was a bit unhappy that nobody replied to that email
<siretart> \sh: how much time to UVF from now?
<\sh>  14
<\sh> 
<\sh> January 19th
<\sh> 
<\sh> 
<\sh> /!\ UpstreamVersionFreeze
<\sh> argl
<ogra> ~6 weeks to go
<siretart> ok, so we still have some time
<ytannus> I'm preparing my own howto:
<ytannus> 1.- Install dput:
<ytannus> 	sudo apt-get install dput
<ytannus> 2.- Upload your publick key to keyserver.ubuntu.com
<ytannus> 	2.1.- open kgpg
<ytannus> 	2.2.- add keyserver.ubuntu.com to your server list and set it as default server
<ytannus> 		Menu: Settings->Configure Kgpg->Key Servers
<ytannus> 	2.3.- upload your public key
<ytannus> 		Select you public key and go to	Menu: Keys->Export public keys, choose default key server and hit ok
<ytannus> 3.- Got to your sources dir and execute
<ytannus> 	debuild -S
<ytannus> ytannus@leoncio:~/tmp/kurses$ debuild -S .
<ytannus> debuild: fatal error at line 521:
<ytannus> :)
<Riddell> ytannus: no need for a "."
<Riddell> debuild -S -sa
<Riddell> run that inside the source
<ytannus> I'm in sources dir...
<ytannus> debuild -S -sa
<ytannus> debuild: fatal error at line 521:
<ytannus> cannot find readable debian/changelog anywhere!
<ytannus> Are you in the source code tree?
<ytannus> answer: yes I'm
<ytannus> :(
<Riddell> the sources dir should have the upstream version number in it  kurses-1.2.3
<Riddell> do you have a debian/changelog file?
<ytannus> question, I'm using kubuntu after use mandrake... I remember that in mandrake I had to create a spec file... there is something similir for debs?
<ytannus> no "debian/changelog"
<Amaranth> sort of
<Riddell> spec files are for RPMs.  debs have debian/rules debian/control and other files
<Riddell> how did you make the .debs if you don't know that already?
<ytannus> I know... just asking
<ytannus> riddell: checkinstall... I told you
<ytannus> :)
<Riddell> what's checkinstall?
<ytannus> NAME
<ytannus>        checkinstall  generate packages by tracking installation scripts
<Amaranth> dirty thing that does a fake make install then make a package out of the results
<ytannus> cd souces
<ytannus> sudo checkinstall
<Riddell> oh, scary
<ytannus> ooohh ;)
<Riddell> ok ytannus, your task for today is learning real debian packaging!
<Amaranth> we need ubotu here :)
<ytannus> riddell: you are right...
<Riddell> find the program's sources, make a .orig tar from them, run dh_make and it'll make a debian/ directory with lots of .ex example files in it
<ytannus> well sirs, really thanks for your help.... now I understand better what I need to do to be a contributor....
<Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuPackagingGuide  is worth reading
<ytannus> yes, I was there...
<ytannus> thnx
<Riddell> and get back to me if you have any questions or don't understand anything
<ytannus> thanks... I will...
<ytannus> bye
<LaserJock> crap he left
<LaserJock> I was just going to ask him some questions
<Riddell> well he's keen at least :)
<LaserJock> I am working on a packaging guide
<Riddell> I'm sure he'll come back
<LaserJock> I have something that Unfrgiven did on doc.ubuntu.com
<siretart> slomo_: strong words from dominik, huh?
<LaserJock> btw, it would be nice to get some feedback on the packaging guide ;-)
<slomo_> siretart: yes, i ignored his tone and answered it ;) i hope i get further time packaging mplayer correctly... and we will get a stripped tarball, i see no other way to drop some of the explosive stuff in it ;)
<siretart> slomo_: did you contact the dd working on packages for debian?
<slomo_> siretart: not yet... give me a 48h day and i do it =)
<siretart> ;)
<ogra> slomo_, just get a fast jet and travel through the timezones during the day ... its not full 48h then, but a lot more time for one day ;)
<slomo_> siretart: but i'll write him now... the problems seems to become more acute now ;)
<siretart> slomo_: who did dominik you contact exactly?
<slomo_> siretart: you mean 'why'? because he read my and nafallo's name in our changelog... marillat is on CC too
<siretart> so you 3, okay
<siretart> slomo_: I'm glad that even upstream suggests linking libavcodec statically to mplayer
<slomo_> siretart: everybody should do this imho... would save us millions of problems with ffmpeg
<slomo_> siretart: (i mean shipping a libavcodec version)
<Riddell> ytannus just e-mailed me with a pointed towards this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51003
<Riddell> docs on forums are evil
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting
<ogra> woah ...
<siretart> ph3ar
<\sh> hammer
<\sh> aeh...
<slomo_> wtf... what is this strace stuff good for?
<tseng> slomo_: its great
<\sh> anyone know where xfvb-run disappeared?
<tseng> it shows you ever system call
<tseng> if you are running it on a large multithreaded gui app though, pretty useless
<slomo_> tseng: i know what strace does... but i don't know why this guys uses it to get all dependencies of one applications through configure ;)
<tseng> slomo_: tell hm about ldd?
<LaserJock> man, that thread gets scarier as it goes along
<Treenaks> LaserJock: that's nothing
<Treenaks> LaserJock: if you want scary, look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=66563
<BearPerson> anyone around that can share some experience with making ppc installer CDs?
<LaserJock> Treenaks: 95 pages, holy cow! Although I use a bash script similar to that for reinstalling
<Treenaks> LaserJock: still, it doesn't break the systems of hundreds of new people
<LaserJock> Treenaks: yeah, internal consumption only ;-)
<Diablo-D3> hey guys
<Diablo-D3> is there some reason that jack apps in dapper havent been converted to libjack0.100-0 yet?
<\sh> Diablo-D3: uh...bad...wanna jump in and change it?
<Diablo-D3> \sh: last time I noticed ubuntu doesnt accept non-motu uploads.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: u can 1. file a bug in malone for universe packages or 2. file a bug in bugzilla for main packages, then 3. provide a debdiff of the change, and a statement that you build the package successfully and tested it
<\sh> and 4. we can upload to ubuntu
<\sh> Diablo-D3: in your name...you can then document your work on your wikipage and start becoming a member of ubuntu and later on a motu
<\sh> Diablo-D3: easy, isn't it?
<Diablo-D3> \sh: not really, no.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: then you have to wait until we finished the other work, like merges and transitions
<Diablo-D3> \sh: no, I can just build the package myself.
<Diablo-D3> but that doesnt help anyone else.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: so you don't want to help others, only yourself?
<Diablo-D3> see above comment.
<Diablo-D3> btw, \sh, this isnt a c++ transition issue
<\sh> Diablo-D3: it is a transition
<\sh> from libjack0.80.0 to libjack0.100.0
<Diablo-D3> a transition of which is not related to c++, sure.
<ajmitch> a lot of our transitions are not c++, so why raise the c++ issue?
<Diablo-D3> ajmitch: because thats whats going on now?
<ajmitch> that's only part of what is going on now
<Diablo-D3> at any rate
<Diablo-D3> I'd provide a patch soon as someone tells me how to properly edit the changelog and stuff
<\sh> Diablo-D3: debian new maintainer guide -> read it :) then man dch then man debdiff then man debuild then http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResource
<siretart> Diablo-D3: what package are you talking about?
<\sh> or the other way around..but debian new maintainer guide first
<Diablo-D3> \sh: no such wiki page
<Diablo-D3> siretart: ardour-gtk and xmms-jack
<\sh> sorry DeveloperResources
<ajmitch> morning siretart :)
<Diablo-D3> and debian's ardour is already being built with jack .100
<\sh> aeh
<\sh> Diablo-D3: hmmm
<siretart> huhu ajmitch
<\sh> Build-Depends: cdbs (>= 0.4.23-1.1), build-essential, autotools-dev, quilt, patchutils (>= 0.2.25), cdbs (>= 0.4.27-1), debhelper (>= 4.1.0), scons, dh-buildinfo, libgdbm-dev, libsigc++-dev (>= 1.0.4-9.1), libxml2-dev (>= 2.5.7), libncurses5-dev, libasound2-dev (>= 0.9.4), libsndfile1-dev, libsamplerate0-dev, liblrdf0-dev (>= 0.3.1-4), ladspa-sdk (>= 1.1-2), libjack0.100.0-dev, libsoundtouch1-dev (>= 1.2.1-6), libgtkmm-dev (>= 1.2.10-7), lib
<\sh>  gettext, cvs,
<\sh> netbase (>= 4.13)
<\sh> these are the build deps of ardour and ardour-gtk (which is the result of the package building process of ardour)
<Diablo-D3> the only reason Im even asking is because apt-get keeps reminding me I cant upgrade ardour because Im using debian's jack-100
<\sh> Diablo-D3: aha...so it's not ubuntus fault
<Diablo-D3> its easy to edit the build depsand change them to jack-100
<Diablo-D3> \sh: not quite, ubuntu ships jack .100 now
<\sh> Diablo-D3: and as I said, we are in the middle of the work
<ajmitch> \sh: no, ardour ftbfs at the moment
<\sh> you should use breezy which is marked as stable
<\sh> ajmitch: yes...I know :) I merged it :)
<Diablo-D3> \sh: why should I use breezy?
<ajmitch> uh oh ;)
<Diablo-D3> thats like saying "you should use windows"
* siretart is on xmms-jack
<Diablo-D3> or something else nonsensical.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: because dapper has to be broken by any rule
<Diablo-D3> \sh: so?
<\sh> Diablo-D3: don't expect it to work as a production system
<Diablo-D3> \sh: you say that like it means something.
<Diablo-D3> \sh: when did I say I was using it as a production system?!
<\sh> Diablo-D3: honest: it nerves when everybody comes here and rant about this and that not working...and holding us up from important work on the packages...we know it's broken, and we will fix it...
<Diablo-D3> \sh: and it gets on my nerves everytime you say this shit.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: it nerves more, if those people ranting don't want to help..
<Diablo-D3> I've probably been running an unstable debian-based distro longer than you've even known what Linux is
<\sh> Diablo-D3: and I think all others will agree with me
<Diablo-D3> so dont you dare talk down to me.
<siretart> please, calm down
<siretart> Diablo-D3: we know that dapper is quite broken at this time
<siretart> Diablo-D3: if you want to help us, please file malone bugs
<Diablo-D3> siretart: afaik there are bugs filed on this already
<siretart> Diablo-D3: bugnr?
<BearPerson> usually, bugs get fixed faster when people volunteer to fix them, not when people complain about them... at least that's been my experience
<Diablo-D3> siretart: not mine.
<siretart> Diablo-D3: why not?
<Diablo-D3> siretart: someone beat me. ;)
<siretart> Diablo-D3: beat him back
<Diablo-D3> er?
<Diablo-D3> siretart: why should I be the first to report abug?
<\sh>  /ignore Diablo-D3 kthxbye
<ogra> Diablo-D3, because it obviously annoys you ?
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: Im not joining motu, of thats what you're asking.
<Diablo-D3> ogra: "me toos" are not really welcome, you know.
<siretart> Diablo-D3: why not?
<ogra> Diablo-D3, annouying others with your annoyance wont get you anywhere
<Diablo-D3> did I accidently log on the bizzaro internet?
<ogra> Diablo-D3, filing a bug will
<BearPerson> quite the reverse, actually
<BearPerson> s/reverse/opposite/
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: about your request for me to join motu, I'd rather not.
<siretart> Diablo-D3: why not?
<BearPerson> I never said that
* Diablo-D3 stays away from politically charged groups.
<BearPerson> I'm just saying complaining tends to slow things down rather than anything else, while working on it speeds it up
<Diablo-D3> Sadly, thats one of the things ubuntu inherited from debian it shouldnt have =/
* BearPerson fails to see any politics in here
<BearPerson> but then again, I'm from an unrelated group, so I probably don't know anything
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: 'in here' means this channel?
<Diablo-D3> read other irc channels and the mls
<Diablo-D3> debian has been far worse, but ubuntu has it too
<Diablo-D3> and thats not something I really want to get involved in
<siretart> Diablo-D3: please. we have really a lot of work to do. if you want to help us, please file bugs about things you see. trolling does NOT help us
<BearPerson> actually, I just came here hoping someone could help me out with the weird behavior of my ppc installer CDs
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: try #ubuntu
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: this isnt a help channel.
<Kyral> or #ubuntuforums
<ogra> Diablo-D3, i have no idea what youre talking about but it seems *very* offtopic foruniverse packaging
<Diablo-D3> siretart: I help ubuntu, just in other ways, ones that dont require me actually dealing with politics.
<BearPerson> well, I'm making installer CDs, not using them... so it sounds like more a dev than a user/support question
<Diablo-D3> siretart: like, I run #ubuntu-laptop, so the laptop team has a home on irc.
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: ahh.
<BearPerson> I'm trying to find some community knowledge about common pitfalls in that area
<Kyral> Diablo-D3: you say you run Ubuntu-Laptop?
<siretart> Diablo-D3: filing bugs is not about policits.
<Diablo-D3> Kyral: the channel, yes.
<siretart> Diablo-D3: YOU are trolling this channel since 15min. please stop that
* BearPerson wonders why the ubuntu IRC group contact isn't running that channel
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: because I registered it?
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: its not an official ubuntu channel.
* BearPerson points to ##ubuntu-laptop
<Diablo-D3> ........
<Diablo-D3> BearPerson: why cause problems?
<BearPerson> but never mind me, I don't know a thing about how things work around here
<Diablo-D3> mjg59 has no problem with it, and hes the head of the ubuntu-laptop project.
<siretart> finally..
<ogra> sigh
<siretart> I was close to kick him..
<ogra> feel free next time he does this ...
<siretart> I will..
<ogra> you got my full support
<\sh> ajmitch: ardour needs a give back
<\sh> hey this person is really annoying...
<\sh> Kyral: and believe me..this is a long time...
<Kyral> huh?
<\sh> Kyral: even if he tells you otherwise in #ubuntu-laptop
<LaserJock> I have seen him do this like 3 times since I've been hanging out here, very annoying
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> wha?
<siretart> never mind, he is gone
<Kyral> that Diablo guy?
<siretart> how could he guess it?
<siretart> ;)
* Kyral is quite impressed right now
<siretart> ;)
<Kyral> my laptop just got a boottime of under 30 secs
<Kyral> in Dapper
<ogra> cool
<\sh> OH NO
<Kyral> I didn't get a bootchart of it because BootChart segfaulted
<ogra> probably this sped you up *g*
<Kyral> lol
<siretart> \sh: whats up?
<Kyral> but it scared me
<\sh> I uploaded now gdal with cxx new allocator renaming but without merging
<\sh> ARGL
<Kyral> the first thing I see is "Segmentation Fault"
<\sh> grmpf...again
<\sh> because I was somewhere else with my thoughts...
<\sh> near to go out and punch someone
* Kyral hides
<slomo_> ok, now some time for merging :)
<\sh> Kyral: not u
<Kyral> I know
<Kyral> just trying to be comical
<\sh> could be that I'm worked too much...
<Kyral> maybe
<\sh> oh and my english is just to b0rked
<\sh> and no..he's starting now in #kubuntu-devel
<Kyral> what? About install thingys?
<ogra> no, about politics i guess
<ogra> \sh, set him on ignore ...
<\sh> I should stop for now...downloading some porn and wank...really
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> Hey this is cool, when did Ubuntu Package Search get added to Firefox's search bar?
<\sh> but actually..i don't know where to download
<Diablo-D3> if anyone cares, ardour-gtk 0.99-3ubunt1 builds as is
<Diablo-D3> no patches are needed
<siretart> Diablo-D3: no, it needs adjusted build dependencies. And please file a bug next time
<\sh> siretart: it's merged already to use libjack0.100.0 it needs a give-back
<\sh> siretart: that'
<Diablo-D3> siretart: ....?
<Diablo-D3> no, it builds as is.
<\sh> s all...i merged it
<Diablo-D3> I just built it.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: the source is already in the archives
<Diablo-D3> siretart: and a bug has already been filed.
<\sh> Diablo-D3: it's just ... not ... build ... because ... of ... archive ... breakage ... and ...  now ... it ... needs ... a ... give-back...
<Diablo-D3> seeya
<\sh> b.s.a.d
<siretart> b.s.a.d?
<Riddell> siretart: it means "i love you" in \sh language
<Kyral> lol
<\sh> well..actually it means.."I love and hug you so hard that you magically go away" ,)
<siretart> I see..
<siretart> \sh: I love you, too *g*
<\sh> prust
<seth_k|lappy> siretart, while you are handy: I used to use the e-mail seth@sethkinast.com on REVU. Now I use seth@ubuntu.com (which has the same GPG fingerprint because they are two IDs on the same key). But REVU will not give me a password for seth@ubuntu.com ( http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=seth@ubuntu.com )... can you help me? I have uploaded a package using seth@ubuntu.com.
<siretart> thats odd.. hmm
<siretart> broken pipe, eh?
<seth_k|lappy> my guess is that the problem is that they both use the same GPG fingerprint
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: not quite
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: it is because you added that uid after I imported your key
<seth_k|lappy> ah, ok
<seth_k|lappy> just needed a key refresh?
<siretart> seth_k|lappy: try again, I refreshed the keyrung
<siretart> keyring
<seth_k|lappy> yes, it works now :)
<seth_k|lappy> thank you for your help
<siretart> no matter
<lfittl> anybody here who could review one of my packages in revu?
<lfittl> (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1004)
<slomo_> lfittl: name the package after the soname, not the version
<lfittl> you mean I should rename it to libcafix0?
<slomo_> lfittl: oh no, it's alright it seems
<lfittl> :)
<slomo_> lfittl: but better make the -dev package without version
<slomo_> lfittl: development files in () in the short description of the -dev package
<lfittl> anything else before I upload it again?
<slomo_> lfittl: not yet ;) but i'm not finished
<lfittl> k, just tell me when you are done :)
<Kyral> if no one minds could someone review EasyChem?
<slomo_> lfittl: remove the symlink you created in clean
<lfittl> slomo_: If I add a clean/libcafix0.1:: section, is the autotools clean still called?
<slomo_> yes
<lfittl> :)
<slomo_> and it ftbfs... it tries to install in /usr and not in debian/tmp
<slomo_> anyway... i'll take a closer look tomorrow... headache :(
<lfittl> you mean the dh_install dir at the end should be debian/tmp/usr/.. instead?
<lfittl> sry for that :/
<slomo_> no... somewhere in the Makefiles
<Kyral> doesn't rules normally set PREFIX to the right thing?
<slomo_> normally... but these Makefiles don't care about that ;)
<Kyral> unless you put it in there
<slomo_> well... see you tomorrow :) gn8
<Kyral> cya
<lfittl> gn8
<siretart> lol: Nov 26 22:44:10 freiburg sshd[23650] : Failed password for illegal user hitler from 65.167.60.74 port 60416 ssh2
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> where does the IP trace to?
<siretart> adsl_corporativo16760-74.etb.net.co
<siretart> *shrug*
<slomo_> siretart: congrats :P hitler tried to hack you, you're famous now ;)
<Kyral> It would funnier if it traced out to Germany :P
<siretart> the server is in germany
<Kyral> ah :P
<Kyral> I don't know the geographic locations of IPBlocks off the top of my head
<\sh> so ...waiting now
<\sh> 2 pbuilder is enough
<siretart> \sh: why did my beep-media-player not build yet?
<siretart> \sh: I see your gdal upload got just built
<\sh> siretart: the first upload was wrong
<\sh> siretart: i forget to merge...the second one is the right onw
<\sh> one even
<siretart> \sh: yes, but I wonder why your upload got build before my upload
<siretart> \sh: I uploaded before you
<\sh> siretart: well..this depends
<siretart> on what? wind direction?
<siretart> tide?
<\sh> dunno...check the dapper.i386 list?
<\sh> universe/sound/beep-media-player_0.9.7.1+cvs20050803-1ubuntu2: Installed by buildd+terranova [optional:out-of-date] 
<siretart> so it is 'out-of-date'. huh?
<\sh> hmm..no..it should be installed...
<siretart> err
<siretart> it has been build all the time, but http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/ failed to notice that
<siretart> ogra: how can that be?
<siretart> ogra: never mind, I'm silly. sorry
<\sh> siretart: have a look here
<\sh> siretart: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gdome2-xslt/0.0.7-1ubuntu1/gdome2-xslt_0.0.7-1ubuntu1_20051126-2149-powerpc-failed.gz
<\sh> siretart: pbuilder ok ... but not chroot and not buildd
* ogra suggests using ctrl-f and "highlight all" ;)
<ogra> (in firefox)
<siretart> ogra: it also helps typing the correct search string
<siretart> :/
<ogra> heh, yes
<\sh> \sh: !STOP
* \sh stops to work
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-02
<lfittl> what should be done with motu bug reports that request a breezy backport? (malone #3852)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3852: breezy zeroconf package can cause ARP storms Fix req. for: zeroconf (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3852
<siretart> lfittl: first step would be to fix it in dapper
<lfittl> siretart: it is already fixed in the dapper version
<\sh> then write a mail to ubuntu-backports ml
<\sh> ok..good night folks
<crimsun> 'night, \sh
<\sh> you have to take over now :)
<crimsun> ;)
<siretart> gn8 \sh
<crimsun> 'evening/'morning, siretart
<siretart> lfittl: if the fix is reasonably small, and someone prepares an upload, you could also upload it to dapper-updates
<siretart> but mdz would have to approve it
<lfittl> you mean breezy-updates?
<siretart> argl, sure breezy-updates
<siretart> crimsun: I'm going to bed soon ;)
<siretart> I just reassigned that bug
<crimsun> siretart: kk :)
<lfittl> k, I will check the amount of changes for the bug fix
<lfittl> seems that backporting the new version is the best thing, I'm going to bed now, gn8 all :)
<crimsun> 'night
<ajmitch> afternoon :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: 'afternoon :)
<ajmitch> I see the channel is a bit quieter now than it was earlier
<ajmitch> thankfully ;)
<ajmitch> how's the merge progress today?
<crimsun> I've done about ten (early this morning), digging back into it now
<ajmitch> impressive
* ajmitch has barely touched anything
<crimsun> riddell, sh, and siretart have both been pounding away
<crimsun> s/both/all/
<ajmitch> yeah, I've see \sh_away's efforts
<ajmitch> does he sleep at all?
<crimsun> he's purportedly asleep now, but dapper-changes might reveal otherwise ;)
* ajmitch has to do a bit of cleanup on his debian packages first
* siretart is going to sleep now
<siretart> gn8 folks
<ajmitch> just fixing f-spot so it compiles again
<ajmitch> night siretart :)
<ajmitch> oops, forgot 00list
* ajmitch rebuilds
<LaserJock> azeem: any progress towards getting the new ghemical in sid?
<azeem> no, sorry.  I still need to fix mpqc first
<azeem> I'm hacking on heimdal right now, after that, I'll look at mpqc again
<Kyral> Do we have a new MOTUScience member LJ?
<crimsun> what's broken with mpqc?
<LaserJock> azeem: sweet
<azeem> hrm
<azeem> actually
<crimsun> I did the libstdc++ allocator merge earlier this morning
<azeem> crimsun: new upstream needs tuning
<crimsun> azeem: k
<azeem> but yeah, I could just use the old one
<LaserJock> Kyral: oh yea, parktownprawn on ubuntuforums
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<Kyral> huh?
<azeem> hi Andrew!
<LaserJock> Kyral: the latest MOTUScience member is Kevin Goldstein, he worked a lot on the UbuntuScientists wiki and is parktownprawn on the ubuntuforums
<Kyral> ah
<LaserJock> Kyral: do you mean azeem
<Kyral> or him...
<LaserJock> azeem should be ;-)
<Kyral> heh
<Kyral> I can't wait for the merge to end
<LaserJock> hi bmonty
<bmonty> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> I know that checkinstall is very well looked upon but what would you guys suggest for people wanting to make their own .debs?
<LaserJock> wow s/is/isn't/
<Kyral> yaaaaah
<Kyral> I say read the New Maintainers Guide
<LaserJock> perhaps, but I think a lot of people would be turned off by the NMG because it is quite lengthy. Maybe that is just something they are going to have to deal with
<Kyral> If they intend to distribute then they have to use the DNMG
<LaserJock> Kyral: I understand that but what if it is for them only (and maybe some friends). I've used checkinstall in the past and it was very easy
<Kyral> if that is the case go ahead
<Kyral> But just because you can use Checkinstall doesn't mean you know how to make debpacks
<LaserJock> right, I was just wondering if there was an alternative that was kind of a compromise
<Kyral> Not to my knowledge
<LaserJock> I guess that that would be a good reason for having the Ubuntu Packaging Guide ;-)
<Kyral> heh
<Kyral> hey Corey
<Burgundavia> salut Kyral
<spacey> where is that guide?
<Kyral> Oh wait I'm signed up to do the install guide right
<ajmitch> I'd better talk with doko before I merge all these zope packages
* ajmitch signs himself up for all the bugs anyway
<Kyral> hehe
<LaserJock> spacey: it is on doc.ubuntu.com but it is just started so it will probably change a lot
<Kyral> LJ need any help on that
<LaserJock> Kyral: I certainly will at least when I get to pbuilder  ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: right now I'm trying to figure out where to go with it. What the needs are, etc.
<Kyral> Yah what should I do for the install guide
<LaserJock> Kyral: I certainly don't know ;-)
<ajmitch> woohoo, I got to file bug #5000 on malone ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5000: cmfsin (Ubuntu) - zope-cmfsin: merge new debian version Fix req. for: zope-cmfsin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5000
<crimsun> hehe
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> I wonder how bug 4743 is showing up on the assigned merge list?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4743: zope logrotation insists in handling a "default" instance even when it doesn't exist. Fix req. for: zope (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4743
<ajmitch> I don't think that kiko is going to be merging zope 2.6
<Kyral> hey hub
<Kyral> wtf...
<Kyral> damn Bored2k
<LaserJock> Kyral: you on #ubuntuforums again?
<Kyral> I'm always there
<Kyral> bored2k went rampage
<Kyral> Got the people in #debian pissed off
<Kyral> I didn't even see that he buzzed here
<LaserJock> Kyral: you know where there is a log for #ubuntuforums?
<Kyral> KingBahumut and Flexius already have it
<Kyral> They will deal with bored2k
<Kyral> I'm sure you could ask for one though
* Kyral sighs
<crimsun> who is "bored2k?"
<Kyral> its over now
<Kyral> forget it
<bmonty> is there a way to make debchange default to dapper?
<bmonty> i set dapper in the changelog and then debchange changes it back :(
<tseng> bmonty: you could use dch.
<tseng> hm oh
<tseng> debchange is just an alias?
<bmonty> i think so
<minghua> dch == debchange
<tseng> yes i see that
<minghua> bmonty: just remember to use -D option :-)
<minghua> Is there any MOTU who can review my sync request?
<crimsun> sure, what's up?
<minghua> it's for grace and libmath++, bug #4403 and #4087
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4403: grace: merge new debian version Fix req. for: grace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4403
<bmonty> minghua: I try to remember, but I forget too often
<minghua> crimsun: I've tested both in dapper pbuilder, just sync'ing from debian would be good
<crimsun> minghua: then that's enough
<bmonty> crimsun: can you please upload malone #4574? I have now pulled my head out of my ass and made it dapper.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
<crimsun> bmonty: done.
<bmonty> crimsun: thanks
<hub> I have a library that does not change the soname
<hub> but has a minore that changes
<hub> shall I keep the same binary package name>
<hub> ?
<crimsun> what is the binary package?
<hub> libenchant1c2a
<hub> I'm package the 1.2.0 so that I can build AbiWord HEAD
<crimsun> it's -already- libenchant1c2a, or it was libenchant1c2 before?
<crimsun> if the latter case, the situation is moot due to the libstdc++ allocator transition
<hub> already 1c2a
<hub> but I want to upgrade to 1.2.0
<hub> current is 1.1.6
<crimsun> I presume the bump is from new symbols?
<hub> yeah
<hub> but soname is the same
<hub> so I suspect it is upward compatibility
<hub> I'll ask the upstream maintainer anyhow
<crimsun> yeah, that's a better bet
<hub> looks like I'll have to provide a package source for them
<hub> unless it hits dapper
* hub goes and file a malone bug
<jabra> I would like to get some comments on a security tool I have been working on. I am wondering if any would like to take a look?
<jabra> http://pbnj.sf.net
<aigarius> I just fixed the stupidest bug ever in libgphoto2 - see http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1367324&group_id=8874&atid=108874 for a one line fix that reduces memory usage when downloading photos via PTP from serveral hundred MB to 5-10 Mb
<aigarius> It would be very nice to fix this in Ubuntu dapper and breezy
<Burgundavia> aigarius, file a bug in malone on gphoto
<Burgundavia> and include your patch
<aigarius> ok
<Burgundavia> link it to the sourceforge bug as well
<Burgundavia> aigarius, as your are DD, if you fix it in sid it will ubuntu
* Treenaks writes a chunk of apache config to change the default directory-listing icons to Tango icons
<Burgundavia> s/it will/it will hit
<aigarius> Burgundavia, I just did a NMU to sid
<Burgundavia> aigarius, then in the your malone bug report simply ask for a sync
<aigarius> ok
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: so far, 128 people have watched you say that you use ubuntu :)
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, where does that place me int he rankings?
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: 17th
<Treenaks> uh no
<Burgundavia> how many videos are there?
<Treenaks> 16th
<Treenaks> 23
<Burgundavia> is marilize first?
<Treenaks> no, sabdfl, then claire, then jdub, marilize is #4
<Burgundavia> in other news, I need a new hackergotchi
<Burgundavia> marilize and claire said I looked "evil" in my hackergotchi and was much funnier in real life
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: didn't hub take a picture of you?
<Burgundavia> he might have
<Burgundavia> but I think I successfully avoided the cameras at UBZ, just like at Mataro
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: hub took one of mine, and Seveas tried to gimp it... http://www.kaarsemaker.net/home/guid58#guid58
<Treenaks> uh, one of me
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: you could take a still from the video and gimp that into a hackergotchi
<Burgundavia> I like the donkey ears
<Treenaks> they're supposed to be devil-like horns...
<Burgundavia> they look like donkeys ears....
<Treenaks> oh well :)
<Burgundavia> Treenaks, how did the translating go?
<Treenaks> Burgundavia: great!
<Treenaks> although we mostly translated the webpage etc.
<Treenaks> (as translating dapper is pointless without a string freeze)
<Burgundavia> true
<Burgundavia> as is documenting it
* StevenK wonders if he wants speech-dispatcher wanting to run ./configure in make clean.
<zakame> hi all
<crimsun> hi
<zakame> ei crimsun :)
<ajmitch> evening
<crimsun> 'evening, ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's things?
<ajmitch> I see you've been taking good care of wpasupplicant :)
<siretart> morning
* StevenK waves.
<ajmitch> hey siretart, StrikeForce
* StevenK giggles.
<ajmitch> s/strikeforce/stevenk/
<StevenK> Missed!
<ajmitch> never rely on tab completion
<siretart> huhu StevenK, ajmitch, crimsun and rest of '*' :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I noticed you're watching my wiki page ...
<ajmitch> siretart: having a relaxing weekend? :)
<crimsun> ajmitch: n'bad, of course in my excitement I forgot to handle the upgrade case, heh
<siretart> ajmitch: well, I'm hacking on revu2
<ajmitch> StevenK: watching * :)
<ajmitch> siretart: great!
<crimsun> 'lo, siretart, StevenK
<ajmitch> siretart: if I can help out in any way..
<siretart> ajmitch: sure. have you a checkout if the current svn
<ajmitch> nope
* ajmitch will
<siretart> okay, I started to write accept.py, which is for accepting uploads from contributors
<siretart> it uses the DSCParser and Changesparser, which I've stolen from StevenK ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: svn url?
<StevenK> That's ChangesParser. :-P
<siretart> ajmitch: do you have an trac account?
<siretart> StevenK: ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: probably not
<siretart> ajmitch: 2 possibilites: if you want to checkout via http (and use trac), then please add yoursef to /srv/revu-trac/trac.htpasswd
<siretart> ajmitch: or you check out /srv/svn/revu2 directly
<ajmitch> checking out directly for now
<ajmitch> will add myself there as well
<siretart> as you wish.
* StevenK fixes linda.
<ajmitch> I'd better look over the spec again too :)
<ajmitch> siretart: how far did you get with the launchpad auth?
<ajmitch> still blocked on LP, I guess?
<siretart> ajmitch: well, it is mainly a elmo matter
<ajmitch> ah
<siretart> ajmitch: he 'just' needs to open an tcp port on the AuthServer
<ajmitch> I understamd he has a long queue :)
<siretart> the implementation is just a few lines copy'n pasted from the lp wiki
<ajmitch> about 2 lines, iirc
<siretart> I was counting checking the lp group, too ;)
<ajmitch> I'm sure it could be done in < 2 lines of perl ;)
<ajmitch> whether you could read it 5 minutes later is another matter altogether
<siretart> but noone would want to read it, then ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: I think you must be in group www-data for being able to checkout revu2 via svn+ssh
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> I checked it out fine
<siretart> intresting..
<ajmitch> I won't be able to commit though
<ajmitch> not until I'm in the www-data group
<siretart> ah, thats possible
<siretart> well, you are root anyway ;)
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> I'll try not to break too much ;)
<siretart> okay.
<siretart> sistpoty has mainly worked on the classes/ dir, that are the classes for the webinterface
<siretart> i'm currently working on scripts/accept.py, which is for accepting uploads from contributors
<ajmitch> suggestions for something for me to look at?
* ajmitch could try & work on something in the post-upload checks
<siretart> thats what I would call 'stage2'
<siretart> accept.py is doing 'stage1'
<siretart> it passes a debian sourcepackage with orig.tar.gz to stage2,
<siretart> if the uploader 'forgot' to attach the orig.tar.gz, accept.py tries to download it from the revu archive, and falls back to ubuntu and debian archives
<siretart> so that stage2 can be sure that a 'dpkg-source -x' will succeeed
<siretart> ajmitch: stage2 should call all checks, which should be triggered automatically, like linda/lintian etc
<ajmitch> but not building
<ajmitch> since packages need to go into a build approval queue after stage 1
<siretart> ajmitch: so how about setting up a dapper chroot under the account 'elma', and scripting something which does the lintian/linda reports in that chroot?
<siretart> exactly
<ajmitch> a package should be well formed by the time it passes stage 1, right?
<ajmitch> sure
<siretart> so I'd suggest that we write all tests, automatic ones and non-automatic ones in separate scripts, so that stage2 can call them individually
* ajmitch has setup far too many chroots lately ;)
<siretart> use 'sudo -u elma -i' to become elma, it has no password set
<ajmitch> heh, sudo asks for my password though :)
<ajmitch> su would work better
<siretart> thats on purpose, because su would ask for elma's pw, which is not set
<ajmitch> siretart: you merged gobby, but we have to rebuild it again sorry ;)
* StevenK still waits to become whitelisted on dapper-changes.
<ajmitch> the cursed libsigc++2.0-0c2a
* ajmitch doesn't want gobby to be removed just because apt is updated
<StevenK> Yes, we've done a C++ transistion, so Mathius thought it would be fun to do a C++ transistion in a C++ transistion.
<ajmitch> I love c++ now
<StevenK> Keep talking, I'm reloading.
<siretart> StevenK: have you already applied for ubuntu membership?
<ajmitch> :)
<StevenK> siretart: No. I thought I had to have a significant contribution first.
<ajmitch> there was some rumour that DDs got in from their debian contribution
<siretart> I think we had cases
<ajmitch> but I only recently heard that one
<siretart> for ubuntu membership, that should be okay. This would get you a stevenk@ubuntu.com, which is autowhitelisted
<ajmitch> I wish I got in with that exception :)
<StevenK> You didn't?
<ajmitch> no, I became a MOTU at the start of the year
<siretart> careful, I'm talking about ubuntu member, not ubuntu developer!
<ajmitch> when it was easy
<ajmitch> I can't recall if I was made member & MOTU in the same meeting
<ajmitch> main upload rights took a little longer
* StevenK nods. I'm aware there is a difference between member and developer.
<crimsun> ajmitch: yes, you were fasttracked pre-Hoary
<StevenK> I'd like to know if my Debian contributions do count, though.
<siretart> yes, there was a pre-hoary exception for recruiting motus. I tried to fall into that exception, but I was too late ;)
<ajmitch> hm, nifty gnome 2.12 splash on debian experimental
<siretart> StevenK: for ubuntu membership, I think so, because we have all your packages in ubuntu ;)
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome Bugzilla bug #2: NotFound
<StevenK> So do I add myself to the CommunityCouncil wiki and show up?
<StevenK> Doesn't that mean I need someone to vouch for me?
<crimsun> you need to do that (add yourself, show up)
<ajmitch> probably
<siretart> StevenK: yes, and try to join this group https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers
<ajmitch> but the CC is made up of DDs
<StevenK> (And this gives me three e-mail addresses at home, whee)
<siretart> StevenK: that group is moderated, and the CC goes through that list
<ajmitch> only 3?
<crimsun> I don't think someone will need to vouch for you, since you already are a DD
<ajmitch> oh good, f-spot works fine
<ajmitch> ready for upload to experimental for jordi :)
<crimsun> particularly since you've been documenting your work on the wiki
<siretart> excatly
<StevenK> Well, as soon as I can figure out what to do with speech-dispatcher, that'll be four merges.
<StevenK> Which is what, nothing? :-P
<schweeb> ajmitch: well, I'm a member, but not a MOTU
<schweeb> next week... Dapper time
<ajmitch> StevenK: more than I've uploaded to dapper :)
<schweeb> then pkg mgmt++
<StevenK> Duh, I'm new, and still care.
<ajmitch> since I've got a nice backlog of debian stuff to get through
<StevenK> :-P
<StevenK> My Debian stuff is waiting on a Perl package going through NEW.
<ajmitch> no point letting my debian work slip further :)
<StevenK> Damn it, it's been like two weeks.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Want to maintain a very small Perl package? :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: now we just have to figure out how to make the debian developers love us
<ajmitch> perl & I don't mix
<StevenK> Muahahah
<StevenK> apt-cache show libpoe-perl
<ajmitch> it's bad enough that I just inherited a php package
<schweeb> I need to re-learn perl
* StevenK gets paid to code Perl.
<schweeb> still haven't bothered with python yet
* StevenK codes Python for fun.
* ajmitch gets paid to code php :(
<schweeb> I still have systems that don't have PERL yet :(
<ajmitch> ubuntu isn't done until sysvinit is replaced with python
* siretart gets paid to code in AspectC++ ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: explain that to the ltsp guys ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: they won't mind :)
<ajmitch> python is good for the soul
<Lathiat> ruby is better
* Lathiat hides from the mob
<ajmitch> yay, language flamewars
<ajmitch> Lathiat: good to see you round, got your LCA tickets sorted? :)
<Lathiat> yep
<schweeb> one of the biggest LTSP guys lives right here near Detroit, I don't think he cares terribly about python
<ajmitch> sweet
<schweeb> McQuillan
<Lathiat> all set to go
<siretart> I think mono would win the flamewar, because it can integrate all of them ;)
<Lathiat> and i just started a job but i informed him i'd be at a conference in january and hes fine with that :)
<ajmitch> oh nice, still at uni though?
<ajmitch> we need to get avahi 0.6.1 into dapper
<Lathiat> gonna take next year off
<ajmitch> ok
<schweeb> avahi being mdns?
<Lathiat> ya
<Lathiat> http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
<ajmitch> avahi being the only decent, free mdns implementation
<schweeb> I have yet to use any mdns implementation
<ajmitch> morning \sh
<Lathiat> siretart: mono integrates with ruby?
<ajmitch> \sh: you're burning through all the merges :)
<schweeb> you hear jorge/whiprush went all faggoty for a while?  he may be all winodws now?
<ajmitch> schweeb: eh what?
<ajmitch> how?
<schweeb> excuse my termage
<schweeb> but he went to mostly windows.. somehow he's all disenchanted
<ajmitch> I find it hard to believe
<siretart> Lathiat: aren't there ruby bindings for mono?
<\sh> moins
<Lathiat> siretart: 'bindings' ?
<siretart> hi \sh
<Lathiat> no langauge interpretor for ruby for mono that im aware of
<schweeb> ajmitch: me too... he's the one that convinced me to go from RH->Sid in the frist place
<\sh> moins siretart
<Lathiat> coudl be a fun project maybe :)
<siretart> Lathiat: bad ruby ;)
<schweeb> like 3 yrs ago
<ajmitch> schweeb: we need independant confirmation for these sort of ill rumours
<ajmitch> surely he couldn't just turn
<schweeb> I'm the first harbinger of such turnage... although he may still yet be saved
<schweeb> believe me, I was the most disappointed of all
* StevenK adds 11 hours to 1400 and comes up with 1am 7th of December.
<StevenK> Icky
<ajmitch> StevenK: no kidding
<ajmitch> it's hard for me, that'd be 3am
<StevenK> ajmitch: Hell, I was going to ask you to be in my fanclub, but not if it's 3am.
<schweeb> http://schweeb.wordpress.com/2005/11/17/the-linux-bandwagon/ <--- this is about him
<ajmitch> so I tend to skip most of the nighttime meetings now unless they're MOTU meetings
<schweeb> ajmitch: he makes me ;_;
<schweeb> I'm pouting a lot
<ajmitch> just slap some sense into himi & he'll come out of it
<Lathiat> siretart: hrm, http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-PaloAlto/9251/ruby/nrb.html and http://www.saltypickle.com/rubydotnet/
<schweeb> he's a pretty stubborn bastard
<schweeb> believe me
* StevenK notes he has until the 7th.
<schweeb> known him long enough to know that
<ajmitch> StevenK: mako always looks for 'sustained' contributions
* schweeb becomes drunker with every sip
<StevenK> So, a merge I'm doing runs $(MAKE) distclean on clean, which will run ./configure if the Makefile doesn't exist. Should I stop it doing that?
<ajmitch> so if the DD thing doesn't help, you need to be around at least a month or usually 2, to get membership
<StevenK> Then I may as well wait.
<StevenK> But I don't want to bug elmo to whitelist me.
<siretart> why not?
<ajmitch> he'll get to the whitelisting
<siretart> he gets paid for that ;)
<schweeb> I've heard mako isn't employed by canonical anymore... and he wasn't a huge help on the CC for getting me membership when I emailed them
<schweeb> although he's still a kickass guy
<ajmitch> schweeb: he's not, and he's still on the CC
<schweeb> ah, makes sense enough
<ajmitch> he's doing the $100 laptop thing now
<Burgundavia> schweeb, he is a very very busy person
<schweeb> so I've seend
<schweeb> *seen
<ajmitch> StevenK: I generally just care about whether the package builds properly from a fresh start in pbuilder, I like to introduce as few changes as necessary
<ajmitch> anything that debian maintainers don't accept, we have to carry to the mext merge cycle
<ajmitch> or drop
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's a one-line patch in debian/rules, and it stops ./configure being run twice.
<schweeb> one of these days, he's been pondering starting an open source neighborhood in the Detroit (free housing) area... be interested (very much so) in seeing how that turn sout
<StevenK> This is my problem - it's a small change, but do we want to keep maintaining it.
<azeem> StevenK: how does it run ./configure when the Makefile doesn't exist?
<ajmitch> StevenK: if it works, & is documented in the changelog, might as well try it
<ajmitch> & send it to the debian maintainer
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<azeem> heya
<StevenK> Hrm.
<schweeb> I'm usually like Mr HaHa... <lost reference... nm>
<StevenK> I'm not sure. the first three lines of the clean target are dh_testdir, rm and $(MAKE) distclean
<StevenK> And running fakeroot debian/rules clean shows dh_testdir and then ./configure, so it is the $(MAKE)
<\sh> StevenK: not obvious
<crimsun> mm bombard-elmo-with-syncs hour :)
<azeem> does it depend on some other target, like config.status?
<ajmitch> crimsun: sure :)
<StevenK> Ahhh, it depends on config.status for some reason.
<StevenK> Ahhhh, that runs ./configure
<azeem> that's what dh-make does, for some reason
<StevenK> ajmitch: And you said elmo would get around to it. It's been four days, damn it. :-)
<ajmitch> that's not long
<ajmitch> it took him at least 2 weeks to get my new GPG key into the keyring :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: I went from NM to DD in five days. I lost my key and had a new one in the keyring in two days.
<ajmitch> nice
<StevenK> ajmitch: I'm *incredibly* lucky when it comes to dealing with elmo. :-)
<Mithrandir> StevenK: whom did you sleep with for that to happen? :-)
<ajmitch> that was early 90s, right? ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Nope, 2001.
<ajmitch> Mithrandir: it's called 'riding the wild elmo'
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Mithrandir: No-one, actually.
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RideTheWildElmo
<StevenK> Ran 198 tests in 4.207s
<StevenK> FAILED (failures=4, errors=75)
* StevenK ponders adding himself to the wiki page.
* StevenK curses siretart.
<StevenK> I'd forgotten how fragile Linda's bootstrapping stage is.
* siretart innocent!
* siretart just user of linda!
<siretart> :)
<pef> hello
<ajmitch> hi pef
<ajmitch> siretart: it's part of your secret plan to sabotage debian?
<ajmitch> drive all the DDs mad
* StevenK chuckles.
<StevenK> Drive? I'm already mad.
<siretart> ajmitch: sabotaging debian to make my own nm procedure more easy.. sounds like a plan :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> no, it means less for us to merge
<SloMoSnail> and more work for us to fix stuff or stay uptodate ;)
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're australian, mad by default ;)
<ajmitch> we have jdub as the 'typical aussie' :)
<Seveas> in an orange prison overall :)
<StevenK> Oh my God.
<StevenK> jdub is nowhere typical.
<StevenK> Er, nowhere typical
<StevenK> Bloody hell, nowhere near typical
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> jdub is a typical jdub
<Seveas> a unique species :)
<ajmitch> StevenK: don't worry, I've spent enough time in .au to know they're not that bad :)
* StevenK wishes to unbreak Linda.
<ajmitch> you have linda in some revision control?
<StevenK> *nods* SVN
* StevenK gives up on Linda.
<siretart> is she so bad?
<ajmitch> sleep time, night all
<slomo> gn8 ajmitch
<siretart> gn8 ajmitch
* siretart searches a breakfast
<StevenK> siretart: At the moment she is.
<herve> hello
<\sh> well..when do heise.de drop their "the southafrican linux distribution" thing....that's not true
<siretart> re
<hub> he siretart
<siretart> hey hub!
<\sh> re
<siretart> \sh: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/
<\sh> siretart: cool
<zakame> hi all
<\sh> siretart: but i think we will wait for the unmet deps until uvf
<siretart> \sh: yes, so do I
<siretart> \sh: but I was too annoyed about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
<\sh> siretart: not only u
<\sh> siretart: well...lets check if we can do a nice list system like the MoM stuff now
<siretart> \sh: this time, I think we should use something like lpbugs for unmet deps
<\sh> siretart: well...it's easy to adjust :) new text and file bugs :)
<siretart> jupp
<encolpe> Hi
<zakame> hi there
<herve> grmblblbl
<\sh> good afternoon herve and a happy 1. sunday 4 weeks before x-mas :)
<herve> argh, I need ideas for presents!
* siretart too
<herve> good afternoon to you too
<zakame> awww herve
* hub should finish reinstalling all his machines
<\sh> hub: u moved already?
<hub> \sh: last sunday
<hub> \sh: done in 2 weeks
<hub> from the time I search for a new place to the end
<\sh> hub: so no montreal anymore :)
<hub> Ottawa now
<hub> that's life
<\sh> well...when I have the money and time...then I have to visit you and your wife in ottawa :) repeating the meeting from montreal :)
<hub> sure
<hub> I have more room now
<hub> it is a house
<\sh> wow :)
<sivang> hub: Ottawa is better then montreal ?
<hub> sivang: just that I got a new job
<hub> that's the sole reason
<hub> actually I'm in Gatineau/Hull
<sivang> hub: oh cool , what do you do btw?
<hub> on the other side of the river
<hub> I will work for Xandros
<\sh> xandros? another debian based distro?
<hub> \sh: yep
<hub> the "proprietary" one
<\sh> hub: hmmm.."go away..don't steal our power" ,)
<siretart> nice..
<siretart> hub: have fun at xandros! :)
<hub> \sh: I'll write software not packages
<\sh> hub: this company who sells this stuff...
<sivang> hub: congrets!
<siretart> I installed it once for my mother
<sivang> \sh: are you a DD stephan?
<siretart> I don't think its a bad distro. the computer was just too slow ;)
<\sh> sivang: no..why should I?
<\sh> siretart: hahahaha
<siretart> \sh: according to infinity, all motu's should start nm ;)
<sivang> \sh: I was just wondering about your pkging knowledge, it seems like you\re one of those old time DDS :)
<zakame> ooh
<\sh> sivang: to be honest...I don't have any clue about what I'm doing here...
<\sh> sivang: but makefiles I'm able to read since I started to work on a MPM machine :)
<zakame> hahaha
* sivang gives \sh  a penalty card "Lying!"
<siretart> another round of mao here? ;)
<sivang> siretart: but ofcourse :)
<\sh> sivang: really...I just build one or two debian packages in my past for my own software...but that was it
<\sh> sivang: the rest is only adaptation of building rpm packages
<\sh> sivang: and reading makefiles :)
<\sh> sivang: and writing shell based ebuilds for gentoo :)
<sivang> hmm
<zakame> \sh: could you check my package in revu then, its full of makefiles :D
<\sh> no one believes me...I know that :)
<sivang> \sh: interesting, so rpm is much like .deb ?
<\sh> sivang: no
<sivang> so where does the "adaptation" come ?
<\sh> sivang: but packaging is always similar...only the tools and ways are differente
<sivang> \sh: ah ok
<\sh> sivang: dependencies e.g. u need to know the packagenames, or at least how to determine them...then u need a bit of knowledge how the whole linux system is working to build init scripts, or postinst postrm etc. scripts] 
<\sh> sivang: do you remember those Cobalt Cubes and Raq machines?
<\sh> sivang: this company was bought by sun later
<sivang> I think I recall something
<\sh> sivang: I was one of the first people who managed to replace the UI of cobalt (webbased, mixture of hardcoded perl html creation scripts and dynamic written html stuff) from the "Blue Theme" to an Orange one for a company in germany
<\sh> sivang: I managed to replace all this shit with one package and one final "reset to manufactur defaults" reboot
<\sh> sivang: the package was a mixture of a rpm package, put into an tar.gz and added a header to it, cpio it...voila cobalt package ready to install via webconsole
<\sh> it took us 2 days to replace 1000 cubes with the new UI
<\sh> sivang: the only problem at this time...there was no real documentation about how to package cobalt stuff..
<looksaus> at first sight, the following may sound like an inappropriate question to ask here
<\sh> and the guys from the german cobalt hq were asking me, how did I manage it
<looksaus> I hope you'll see some relevance in it; maybe you could even point me to a better suited place
<\sh> looksaus: why don't you ask straight away? :)
<looksaus> I'm trying to resize an A4 PostScript document to A3
<looksaus> using psresize, part of the psutils from universe
<\sh> oh this is more a #ubuntu question
<looksaus> these seem to use gs-esp, a gs version that lacks quite a bit
<looksaus> ... laGs quite a bit behind gs-gpl and gs-afpl
<\sh> looksaus: hmm..please file a bug in malone (http://launchpad.net/malone) if something is wrong with this package
<looksaus> \sh, the cropping bug I seem to encounter in gs-esp is old and well known, it seems
<minghua> looksaus: debian has gs-esp 8.15 now, so I assume dapper should follow soon (if not already)
<looksaus> gs-esp seems to be needed for some printing needs, though
<sivang> \sh: still waiting for the end of the story :)
<\sh> sivang: that was the end :)
<looksaus> minghua, I know, I personally poked Jonas Smedegaard about it (Debian packager)
<\sh> sivang: I couldn't give them an answer, because the answer was obvious..."try and error" and "banging my head against a wall"
<looksaus> but my question is where the appropriate channel would be to ask about configuring things so that I can use gs-gpl or gs-afpl with these psutils
<minghua> looksaus: you mean ubuntu maintainer?  since gs-esp's debian maintainer is Hatta-san and Muto-san
<sivang> \sh: ok, then I just need to make myself some more spare time to practice trial and error, it's too weird taht I can hack C/GTK but bumps in packaging :)
<zakame> mhatta and dancer :D
<minghua> zakame: no, kmuto.  dancer is Uekawa-san
<zakame> minghua: errr, yeah, right
<minghua> looksaus: uninstall gs-esp and install gs-afpl doesn't work?
<looksaus> minghua, have a look at http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gs-gpl.html, he's a comaintainer
<\sh> sivang: well..it's training nothing else I think..same happens to me when I learn a new programing language...if I like it, I learn quite fast
<minghua> looksaus: you mean your bug still exists in gs-esp 8.15?
<zakame> can someone please check malone 4106 debdiff, thanks :D
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4106: netatalk: merge new debian version Fix req. for: netatalk (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4106
<minghua> gs-gpl and gs-esp are at the same version now anyway
<looksaus> nope, actually, my comment was quite irrelevant, sorry, just saying he's a comaintainer and has been doing hard work on gs-gpl in Debian lately
<sivang> \sh: I opened some bug on apt-file, I hope that's a real bug and not something I shoul dhave done to make it work
<\sh> zakame: looking
<zakame> \sh: many thanks :D
<\sh> zakame: debdiff failed to apply to the mom version
<\sh> zakame: did u use the debian package?
<zakame> \sh: err, its 2.0.3-2 -> 2.0.3-2ubuntu1
<\sh> zakame: please tell me which package to use..debians or moms :)
<zakame> \sh: debian, sorry :)
<\sh> zakame: np
<\sh> zakame: will test the package just now....I have to wait for openvrml and gtkmathview to compile
<zakame> \sh: again, my many thanks :D
<\sh> zakame: if you have more packages to upload...please write a mail with the bugnumbers to sh@sourcecode.de I'll deal with it
<\sh> zakame: or syncs..everything which is needed to clean the mom list
<\sh> ogra_: frohen 1. advent :)
<zakame> \sh: will do ;-) actually the ones I have for upload are for sync, overriding ubuntu changes
<\sh> zakame: send it to me
<\sh> zakame: including the bug numbers :)
<minghua> \sh: is telling you on irc okay?
<ogra> \sh, thanks, same to you
<minghua> \sh: or email is preferred?
<slomo> hmm, when i set a package to pending upload it disappears from the merges list
<sivang> \sh: was that in germen? :)
<sivang> btw - does anyone remmebers how to enable debugging for a perl script?
<zakame> slomo: I usually set a sync to PendingUpload... is that ok?
<\sh> minghua: email prefered :) but you can query as well...I don't know when I requesting or testing this stuff...depends on the time ... but I'll deal with them all :)
<ogra> sivang, adding prints in the appropriate places ?
<slomo> zakame: doesn't seem like it's ok... they're dispearing to newhere
<slomo> nowhere
<minghua> \sh: I'll send emails then
<\sh> zakame: well...problem is, that they are disappearing
<zakame> sivang: debugging as a perl switch? or the `use warnings` pragma?
<sivang> zakame: switch :)
<\sh> sivang: yepp
<slomo> \sh: why are they disappearing?
<\sh> slomo: i can't search for pending uploads right now...
<\sh> slomo: lp is b0rked to do special searches
<zakame> sivang: according to `perldoc perldebtut`, there's -d and -w
<slomo> \sh: *sigh*
<\sh> slomo: bug is filed already :)
<\sh> compile u bloddy bastard of nc6000 2 pbuilders is nothing :)
<\sh> bloody even
<minghua> \sh: mail sent :-)
<\sh> minghua: k
<zakame> \sh: I've sent mine too :)
<slomo> ok, bugs reset to New ;)
<\sh> slomo: hehe :)
<zakame> slomo: woot
<\sh> zakame: thx for the list
<zakame> \sh: and thanks for your good person ;)
<\sh> zakame: netatalk uploaded.
<\sh> zakame: syncs requested
<\sh> minguha: syncs requested
<\sh> please pay attentions to the buildds thx
<zakame> \sh: will do :)
<\sh> zakame: hardware-monitor is new...please adjust your debdiff
<\sh> new version: 1.2.1-3
<zakame> \sh: ok no prob :D
<\sh> in debian
<zakame> hi hub
<\sh> zakame: loglib-common uploaded
<\sh> aeh logilab-common :)
<zakame> ok
<slomo> is someone here who uses libnss-ldap?
<zakame> keeping two eyes on the buildlog, one for netatalk, another for logilab-common :)
<siretart> ogra: are you around and have some time to move http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/ to tiber?
<ogra> siretart, i'm around, yes ...
<\sh> minghua: syncs requested
<minghua> \sh: thanks
<siretart> ogra: how we do it? I'll give you a tiber account and you move the scripts?
<siretart> ogra: or if you are too busy and installing isn't that complicated, you can also pass me the scripts
<hub> slomo: I have used it at one point
<ogra> siretart, can you give me a dir with exec cgi ... i'll have to inspect the script to tell if i need something additional, its a while ago
<hub> slomo: that is something SuSE does out of the box
<siretart> ogra: we have a normal apache setup, you should be able to use any override in .htaccess files
<slomo> hub: can you take a look at the ubuntu package? debconf shows one informative message which is rated critical (and seems to break automated installs as you can't disable it)... can i safely set this to high?
<ogra> siretart,
<ogra> import sys
<ogra> import re
<ogra> import cgi
<ogra> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
<ogra> import css_template
<ogra> import urllib, sgmllib
<ogra> import zlib
<ogra> thats what i need ...
<hub> slomo: in dapper?
<slomo> hub: or breezy, it's the same currently
<ogra> (css_template is local ...)
<ogra> siretart, python modules indeed
<siretart> ogra: do you happen to know which packages that corresponds?
<ogra> i'll look itr up
<ogra> but it ran on my woody server first, so it should all be fairly standard
<siretart> most propably they are already installed
<ogra> yup
<siretart> because we need quite some python stuff for revu, too
<ogra> i just see there is only a python2.3 backport installed on my old server
<ogra> so it should all be included
<siretart> ogra: you should get email with your pw soon
<ogra> thanks :)
<ogra> normal ssh access i assume
<siretart> yupp
<siretart> standard breezy box
<zakame> hmmm is there any reason not to strip hardware-monitor?
<zakame> I get a lintian warning about that
<slomo> hub: what do you think?
<hub> slomo: build or install?
<slomo> install
<slomo> debconf
<botein> hi
<zakame> hey bojan
<zakame> and botein too :D
<siretart> Ah, I see the pw arrived :)
<hub> slomo: I don't get any error
<slomo> hub: i ask because it breaks automated installs for botein and he want it to be changed ;) and as i know nothing about ldap i think it's better to ask someone else... but imho the importance can be lowered
<\sh> wow.ogra on tiber...what a feeling ... tiber is blessed by the uber-MOTU :>)
<hub> slomo: btw debian unstable as a more recent version
<slomo> hub: no error, but you get a critical informative debconf message where you have to confirm
<slomo> hub: i already requested a sync ;)
<hub> only configuration information
<slomo> hub: yes and one is only informative... that you need to edit some configuration file because it's not handled automatically
<hub> ah
<hub> I didn't catch that
<slomo> hub: but you got this message? "nsswitch.conf is not managed automatically"
<hub> yep I get it
<slomo> do you think this can be lowered from critical to high?
<\sh> haha...blogged
<bojan>  zakame: hi
<slomo> \sh: ? :)
<siretart> grr, options in user dirs not allowed yet, just a sec
<\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/142-Ogra-blessed-tiber.html
<ogra> siretart, yes, grokked that :)
<slomo> hehe
<slomo> siretart: you use zsh? are the unicode problems finally fixed? :)
<ogra> \sh, lol
<\sh> ogra: sorry, couldn't resist
<siretart> ogra: overrides should be allowed now
<siretart> in your public_html
<ogra> oki
<siretart> perhaps a ScriptAlias or something like that is still needed, but you should be able to use every override in your public_html
<botein> hub: what do you think about libnss-ldap?
<ogra> siretart, overrides work... can i have read access to the error log ?
<siretart> ogra: sure, here you are
<siretart> AllowOverride is not valid in .htaccess, only in apache config
<ogra> its years ago that i had to fiddle with apache :)
<zakame> \sh: just updated hardware-monitor's debdiff, now diffs from 1.2.1-3 debian
<ogra> oh, it wants a cgi-bin ...
<\sh> zakame: k...will have a look just now
<zakame> \sh: thank you... will be turning to sleepyland now, ;)
<zakame> good night all!
<siretart> ogra: hm. I tried something, and symlinked your script. now http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi seems to work
<siretart> I think you should create a ScriptAlias in your .htaccess
<\sh> damn...
<\sh> i need to be in the office at 6 o'clock
<\sh> so let me do some more merges and transitions :)
<armine> Hello
<ogra> siretart, its fine as is ...
<siretart> ogra: okay. then lets keep the symlink, okay?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> while i'm at it, i'll add a link at the top of the individual buildlog to jump to the error ...
<\sh> kewl
<\sh> looks nice this shiny buildlog tool...
<\sh> how do i check old buildlogs?
<herve> \sh, do you remember why we need a specific gtk-mist-engine?
<\sh> no...
<\sh> but I synced it just now
<\sh> i don
<siretart> \sh: If I read the code correctly, you dont
<\sh> 't even know what it is...
<siretart> \sh: it is 'just' a nice interface to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
<\sh> ogra: hmmm...can u add such a functionality?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] : its not implemented yet
<ogra> eek
<siretart> but maybe I missed something important
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] :  Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |
<siretart>           http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for
<siretart>           Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge"
<siretart> argl
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] :  Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge
<ogra> grmpf
<siretart> the topic is outdated anyway
<ogra> i hate my jumpy kbd
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:siretart] :  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<ogra> hmm, you wiped the intro
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:ogra] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
<siretart> is it really that important? ;)
<siretart> okayokay, you win :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> elmo: please sync gtkmathview , gtodo-applet , guifications , guppi from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
<ogra> \sh, ENOELMO
<siretart> \sh: wrong channel ;)
<\sh> argl
<\sh> lol
<siretart> \sh: but would you like to have a look njam? it somehow seems to ftbfs
<\sh> siretart: i saw it..will have a look just now
<\sh> hmm...looks like i fixed it now
<\sh> lets see
<siretart> searching some food
<\sh> jo..fixed njam
<\sh> uploaded
<\sh> hmm...the letter "g" on the MoM list just finished
<Christian_> hey
<bojan> Christian_: hi
<Christian_> na bitte geht doch
* ogra scratches head about wine and the mingw32 suggestion ....
<ogra> so we should have a buildd that runs wine and mingw32 ? ?
<\sh> ogra: i wrote something
<ogra> this thread is so silly....
<\sh> ogra: just send..this guy never tell me again about cluelessness
<ogra> be careful .... CoC !
<\sh> ogra: I have to think about the future of wine...I should remove it from the repositories
<\sh> ogra: i'm not as pissed as he is :)
<\sh> ogra: i'm totally clueless :)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: because I'm always right (tm)
<ogra> be happy he doesnt start to talk about autopackage again
<\sh> ogra: read this: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Windows_Build_Prerequisites
<\sh> and that http://gemal.dk/mozilla/build.html
<ogra> btw, thanks for keeping my gworldclock changes :)
<\sh> ogra: well..I read the reports and the diffs sometimes :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> yeah, we need a cygwin buildd running on wine, lol
<\sh> ogra: building windows binaries is not really the problem.
<\sh> ogra: the problem is, mingw is not in main, and I think nobody will maintain it for main
<\sh> ogra: so that's for the story wine to main
<ogra> building them *inside* the wine package is tricky i think
<\sh> ogra: no...u can do it via crosscompiler
<\sh> ogra: but building it via crosscompiler e.g. firefox is something really stupid
<\sh> 1. no one will support it
<ogra> its complete nonsense imho ...
<\sh> 2. not even mozilla itself. they're supporting their own builds and/or the official builds via official build toolchain which is MSVC
<\sh> you know that they're very strict...and maintaining a third or fourth mozilla package for windows ... no waus
<\sh> ways even
<ogra> yup
<\sh> ogra:  read my post...and tell me that I can take my hat and go somewhere else :)
<ogra> \sh, we all know you are clueless, dont worry :P
<ogra> 20-50 clueless uploads a day ....
<slomo> ...and they even work ;)
<\sh> slomo: sometimes
<\sh> only sometimes
<ogra> what a lucky guy you are ;)
<\sh> me?
<ogra> sure ....
<bojan> you guys are funny :)))
<ogra> doing clueless uploads that even *work* ... must be a lot of luck *g*
<\sh> hahahaha
<\sh> ogra: well...the holy compiler helps me sometimes :)
<siretart> ogra: no. the package would 'just' need a build dependency on mingw32
<siretart> ogra: no changes to build infrastructure necessary
<siretart> in fact, I don't find that idea too bad
<ogra> it should rather be in a separate package
<siretart> what excatly?
<ogra> firefox ?
<siretart> err
<ogra> activeX controls ?
<ogra> whatever they decide to bundle
<siretart> I still did only read from \sh that they want to ship firefox bundled with wine
<siretart> what I'm still reading is that they want to build some .dll's, which go along the wine distribution
<ogra> mike hearn siad thet it might happen in the future
<ogra> \sh only reacted on this statement
<siretart> overreacted, imo
<\sh> ah no
<ogra> i dont think so ...
<siretart> let him go on, if wine really starts to make braindead stuff, we can strip that off anyways
<ogra> being called clueless isnt really firendly
<siretart> thats right
<\sh> This doesn't seem to prevent us from giving out the
<\sh> package with the DLL included, however users wouldn't be able to
<\sh> redistribute it.
<\sh> the first mail of scott ritchie
<siretart> \sh: there are 2 separate points in the thread. please dont mix them
<\sh> there is one package of this activeX mozilla stuff which ships officially and alloweded the mfc.dll
<siretart> atm, there is NO package
<\sh> siretart: that is the beginning...and that's why I said, don't distribute windows userland binaries/libraries
<siretart> let him do some work, and lets flame him afterwards
<\sh> siretart: actually I don't flame...I want to avoid this before start
<siretart> \sh: don't. let him do that
<\sh> siretart: you never read me in usenet, when I starting to flame...right now, I'm really calm
<siretart> he will see where this will end
<\sh> if anyone is seeing sistpoty...please ask him where he got the information that hk-classes has to be transitioned
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> \sh: I think I will see him tomorrow in class
<\sh> moins ajmitch
<slomo> hi ajmitch
<ogra> ohh, roundup was orphaned in debian ?
<\sh> siretart: please ask him...I think the information is wrong...
<slomo> ogra: python-gnome too... what shall we do with it? merge anyway or drop it?
<siretart> ogra: obviously
<ogra> slomo, i think debian is about to drop all gtk1 stuff in the near future ....
<siretart> ogra: we should really discuss package removals from universe at the next motu meeting
<ogra> i know some companys running roundup as ticket system ...
<\sh> they should use RT
<ogra> they are still actively usind it
<siretart> because we have quite some stuff which was in debian at some point, but got removed from unstable then
<slomo> ogra: hmm, anyway, i'll merge it for now... and some people are actively using gtk1.2 (xmms for example)
<ogra> \sh, if they have the ressources to switch, sure ...
<siretart> btw
<siretart> there was a plan to setup an RT on tiber
<\sh> ogra: hmmm...could be another job after I leave ISH ,)
<ogra> using a new system involves to set it up and maintain it
<siretart> I think ogra wanted it, right?
<ogra> slomo, yes, go ahead
<ogra> siretart, we had several meetings about it, it wasnt only me ...
<\sh> siretart: can u live with a lot of perl stuff on tiber?
<ogra> it was about having something more sane for UniverseCandidates ... i dnt insist on RT
<ogra> *dont
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> we have the support tracker
<siretart> aah, for universe candidates. Isee
<ogra> any kind of ticket system will do for that...
* sivang hopes with all this package removal talk, that merges are still in need of help
<ogra> doesnt necessarily need to be RT
<siretart> \sh: I need to go now. lets talk about perl stuff tomorrow, okay?
<sivang> rt uses perl, but is very comprehensive and allows flexiability
<siretart> sivang: they are!
<\sh> siretart: i play with the support tracker on launchpad
<siretart> sivang: flexibility translates in maintenance work :(
<siretart> \sh: ok
<sivang> siretart: true, but why do you need an issue tracker, or why drop roundup ?
<ogra> sivang, because debian dropped it
<bmonty> is python-gnome a dead project?
<siretart> ogra: not yet, it is 'just' orphaned
<ogra> bmonty, thats gtk1 ....
<sivang> ogra: does that usually mean that a project is dying ?
<ogra> siretart, yes :)
<siretart> perhaps a new maintainer finds interest in it
<ogra> sivang, that does mean that debian has no maintainer for it
<ogra> since debian packages are personalized, it might disappear completely unless someone adopts it
<sivang> ogra: ah, so that just means that there is nobody from the DDS that is willing to take care of it
<ogra> it has nothing to do with upstream... but if its not in debian anymore it means more work for us to maintain it
<siretart> okay folks
* siretart is off for today
<\sh> cu siretart
<ogra> ciao siretart
<siretart> see you tomorrow!
<\sh> have a nice evening
<siretart> thank. you too!
<sivang> night siretart
<ogra> bmonty, gtk1 itself will die at some point upstream
<bmonty> ogra: I didn't realize that python-gnome was gtk1
<ogra> the gtk2 version is python-gnome2 :)
<bmonty> ogra: ok, I've been trying to find some documentation on their classes with no luck :(
<ogra> which wil get dropped in favor of python-gnome3 at some point in the far future ;)
<slomo> gnome-python, python-gnome2 is no more ;)
* ajmitch reads the fun threads about wine
<bmonty> I think I'm going to stick with only pygtk :)
<ogra> thats not always possibl ;)
<ogra> +e
<slomo> bmonty: why?
<ogra> i.e. try to write a app that uses fullscreen mode .... you'll need gnome stuff ...
<bmonty> slomo: because I can't find documentation on how to use the python gnome bindings mostly
<ogra> aehm ...
<ogra> just run python in a terminal, type help()
<ogra> and then help gnome ;)
<ajmitch> it's good being a MOTU, just sit back & watch \sh burn through the merge list ;)
<ogra> (drop the second help)
<\sh> ajmitch: now I know why debian is sometimes so slow ,)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> ajmitch: i think debian needs a \sh
<bmonty> ogra: that helps a little, thanks :)
<\sh> ajmitch: but i'm too lazy to go the NM way :)
<ajmitch> \sh: that would require handling the politics of NMUs
<ogra> stop talking about politics ....
<\sh> ajmitch: well..u could be my mentor :)
<ajmitch> since you have to notify a maintainer, preferably in advance
<ogra> or Diablo-D3 will come back
* ajmitch shuts up
* \sh shuts up
<ogra> lol
<\sh> hahaha
<sivang> \sh: did infinity answer your question why MOTU need be DDs ? :-)
<ogra> sivang, huh ?
<sistpoty> hi folks
<\sh> sivang: nah...i didn't read anything from him
<ajmitch> hey sistpoty
<sivang> ogra: \sh asked him about it some hours ago
<\sh> ah sistpoty
* ajmitch must have missed that
<\sh> sistpoty: hk-classes...why is it on the list of renames?
<ajmitch> \sh: btw I grabbed most of 'z' on the merge list, sorry ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: it wasn't on the list of doko :)
<sistpoty> \sh: mom, I'll take a look
<ajmitch> sistpoty: the accepted page is broken! :)
<slomo> ajmitch: mr. zope :P
<\sh> ajmitch: thx :) I don't want to deal with zope :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: take a look at the bug report for zope, kiko never said he'd merge it
<ajmitch> \sh: I thought I'd better look at the packages I said I'd care for :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: he, i found out on thursday/friday, that the mail-parsing script was wrong and didn't look for the bug-title... thus any malone bug for a package on the list would move it to accepted
<sistpoty> ajmitch: this should be fixed now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: I'll reset zope ;)
<ajmitch> thanks, I'll check with doko_ if we're dropping it
<ajmitch> zope is v 2.6
<sistpoty> ajmitch: should i set you as assignee for zope then?
<ajmitch> ok
<sistpoty> ajmitch: did you file a merge bug for zope yet?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> didn't want to until I harassed you about it ;)
<ajmitch> I'll file it now
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ok
<ajmitch> hm
<ajmitch> actually..
<ajmitch> no need to worry about it
<ajmitch> removed from dapper already
<\sh> sistpoty: did u see siretarts unmet dep list?
<sistpoty> \sh: no, i didn't
<ajmitch> siretart: you used britney to get unmet deps, or some of your own magic?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: so zope should be deleted from the list?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: please
<\sh> http://revu.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/
<\sh> sistpoty: do u think we can create a list of sourcepackages with the unmet-deps on binaries?
<ajmitch> cool, I can delete my scripts which did the same thing
<sistpoty> \sh: sure thing...
<\sh> sistpoty: cool :) but we will use it first after UVF
<sistpoty> \sh: but I'll have to think about how this could be handled best... if I happen to meet siretart at uni tomorrow, I'll talk with him bout it
* \sh hugs sistpoty 
<\sh> and I write a spec tomorrow for launchpad to have support tickets created against a team :)
<\sh> to get rid of the UniverseCandidates
<ajmitch> why support tickets?
<\sh> because it's to correct way...if someone wants to have software X in universe, which has to be packaged etc. it's a support request
<\sh> not a bug
<\sh> s/to correct/the correct/
<\sh> hmmm..hdf5 was something with haskell, right?
<sivang> \sh++
<sistpoty> \sh: no idea... at least I haven't read it on ghc6-transition ;)
<\sh> ah no..
<\sh> something else..come on u stupid merge :)
<\sh> now it's mine
<ajmitch> sistpoty: I've grabbed revu2 source from svn to hack on it
<sistpoty> ajmitch: cool :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: add yourself to the authors then ;)
<ajmitch> once I've done some coding ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<sistpoty> btw.: \sh: you should also add yourself to authors for revu ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: oh i didn't do enough hacking on it :
<\sh> )
<ajmitch> sistpoty: all I've done so far is argued about the spec
<sistpoty> perhaps this will encourage hacking then ;)
<\sh> sistpoty: I'll start to hack hardly on glpbugs after UVF/FF
<\sh> means from 19th january on
<sistpoty> yeehaa :)
<sistpoty> \sh: hk-classes is a rename based on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013025.html
<sistpoty> strange enough, it's no longer on the list doko mailed to announce
<sistpoty> maybe this is done already?
<\sh> sistpoty: then it's gone magically on this actual list : http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
<\sh> sistpoty: i see that hk-classes was renamed in debian..not according to ubunut
<\sh> ubuntu even
<sistpoty> hm... strange
<\sh> well...no problem at all...I requested a sync
<ajmitch> \sh: hah, nice blog post
<\sh> it's not even renamed during breezys cxx
<ajmitch> yay for ogra worship ;)
<sistpoty> f4t w00t :)
<ajmitch> hey hub
<hub> hey
* ajmitch checks the merge list to see if there's anything left to do
<\sh> ajmitch: lol
<\sh> ajmitch: 249 packages for u to go
<\sh> ajmitch: rock rock rock
<ajmitch> universe will be done before main is ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: oh I did also one or two main merges until now
<\sh> actually I "merged" python-qt packages before even merge bugs were filed
<\sh> clueless...u know :0
<ajmitch> oh shutup barry ;)
<\sh> hehehehe
<ajmitch> ok, pyparsing is good for sync
<\sh>  /nick God
<ajmitch> decompyle only works with python <= 2.3
<ajmitch> so I don't care too much about it
<sampo_v2> hello, i'm looking for the people packaging ardour for ubuntu
* ajmitch points an accusing finger over to .de
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: it's the debian packaging, more or less
<\sh> sampo_v2: yepp...I'm the merger
<\sh> sampo_v2: I just got the email
<ajmitch> \sh: what did you break?
<sivang> and he has no clue....such a shame :)
<\sh> ajmitch: nothing...
<\sh> ajmitch: actually it needs a give back only :)
* sivang aspires to be as clueless as \sh in rpm packages
<ajmitch> sivang: if \sh has no clue I really really worry about the rest of us
<\sh> sampo_v2: so what especially is broken in ubuntus ardour package?
<sampo_v2> \sh: one concern with the package is that the current binary package is quite old
<\sh> sivang: I never said I don't have a clue about rpm packages :)
<sivang> \sh: neither did i :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: another one is that when i was instructing a user to "apt-get build-dep ardour" and "apt-get -b source ardour", the build failed due to missing dependancies
<sivang> .oO(look for the srcasm in my voice)
<\sh> sampo_v2:  ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc
<\sh> sampo_v2: this is the version which is right now in dapper..but not build because of missing deps
<\sh> sampo_v2: that's why I said it needs only a give-back by the buildd admins...which can happen very soon..
<sivang> ajmitch: he has LOTS of clues. he just being modest :)
<sivang> anyway,m enough talking
* sivang rushes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<ajmitch> sivang: nah, he's just fishing for compliments ;)
<sivang> yeah :)
<sivang> I wonder why he does that
<\sh> ajmitch: no ways :) every single time dholbach is writing something about me in motu reports..i remove my name
<ajmitch> \sh: I've done the same
<ajmitch> except yours deserves to be there
<sampo_v2> \sh: there are other issues as well, more on the grander level
<sampo_v2> \sh: one of the is system library linking
<ajmitch> work time, bbiab
<\sh> sampo_v2: hmmm...well
<sivang> \sh: are you running from the government ? :-)
<sampo_v2> \sh: ardour is supposed to be built against the included version of sigc++
* sivang hopes he deserves to be here, by ajmitch's opinion
<sivang> ;)
<\sh> sampo_v2: ah...this is something new...why?
<sampo_v2> \sh: ardour / sigc++ binary interface is quite fragile to compiler differences
<\sh> sampo_v2: actually we got a new sigc++...and I'm starting now a new build of ardour to see which lib the package is using
* sivang notes that everything he says here should not be taken seriously. I'm only joking fellas.
<sampo_v2> \sh: we've seen very strange user reports from debian systems where ardour has been linked against the system libsigc++
<\sh> sampo_v2: if you want you can have a look right now on the build log...http://motuhome.homelinux.net/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc.buildlog
<\sh> oh yes..it uses systems libsigc
<sivang> \sh: anywya, what were those u-d threads you were mentioning ?
<sampo_v2> \sh: i see nothing from that address
<\sh> hmmm..scons determine the installed system lib by itself..means..if I remove the build dep...
<\sh> sampo_v2: press reload it's building just now...:)
<sampo_v2> \sh: SYSLIBS=0
<\sh> http://motuhome.homelinux.net/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc.buildlog
<\sh> sampo_v2: k..but i have to do more
<\sh> hmm..
<\sh> debian upstream defined syslibs=yes
<sampo_v2> \sh: another problem with audio use on ubuntu is that there are no firmware packages. this means people with soundcards like the RME multiface (like me) can't use their soundcards without hacking
<\sh> sampo_v2: well.this is more a legal problem,
<sivang> anywa guys, I've had an exhusting sunday at work (= monday blues around the rest of the world) will head off now
<\sh> sampo_v2: nothing to do with ardour
<sivang> laterz all
<sampo_v2> \sh: yes, debian insists on defining syslibs=yes, but it isn't the Right Thing To Do
<\sh> sampo_v2: I think the maintainer don't want to deal with issues in the upstream source...
<\sh> sampo_v2: so he's using the syslibs...btw...which version of libsigc++ are u using?
<sampo_v2> \sh: the RME firmware is distributed with the alsa source packages, so it CAN be distributed. i guess it clashes with debian policy
<sampo_v2> \sh: 1.2
<\sh> sampo_v2: what about 2.0?
<\sh> sampo_v2: and about this firmeware issue...can u please file a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com about it?
<\sh> sampo_v2: libsigc++-1.2 has libsigc++-1.2.5 build....if this is appropriate..i don't see why to change it
<sampo_v2> \sh: using any externally linked sigc++ is not advisable
<sivang> I don't believe it, it DOES has docs
<\sh> sampo_v2: rational? are u changing something on the sigc++ source...well..I have to understand why I should not use the system lib :)
<sivang> (cdbs)
<ajmitch> \sh: especially as in debian it's always *highly* recommended to use the debian libs
<ajmitch> I've got to hack the build system on 1 of mine to use system libffi/libgc :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: we've seen non-duplicatable issues with ardour when people were running it linked agains a system library sigc++
<\sh> ajmitch: well...thinking about the user, I don't mind to do a change..if this works...but I want to know "what is different between sigc++ shipped with upstream source and standard 1.2.5 shipped with ubuntu"
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: from the point of the distribution, we have to reduce as much of this duplcation as possible
<sampo_v2> \sh: different versions of g++ create a bit different binary code
<ajmitch> libs are shipped by a distro for this reason :)
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: that's fine then
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: all our libs & apps are compiled with the same g++
<sampo_v2> \sh: ardour users have suffered from non-"deterministic" issues created by linking ardour against system libraries
<ajmitch> we do source-only uploads
<sampo_v2> ajmitch: there is evidence pointin otherwise
<sampo_v2> ajmitch: do you think we have sigc++ in our cvs for fun?
<\sh> sampo_v2: please give me a detail view..if there is an issue between libsigc++-1.2.5 and gcc4.0.2 please state
<sampo_v2> \sh: no
<sampo_v2> \sh: this has been caused by even minor version changes in g++
<\sh> sampo_v2: so there must be a difference between the official libsigc++ package and yours...
<\sh> sampo_v2: do u think it changes when we compile all the sources with g++-4.0.2?
<\sh> sampo_v2: if it's the same source of sigc then it compiles the same
<sampo_v2> \sh: the day you switch to g++-4.0.2-1 and compile only sigc++ with it, this issue will trigger
<\sh> sampo_v2: so what is different between your shipped version and the 1.2.5 version
<\sh> sampo_v2: well...this will never happen :) because if the toolchain is changed we have to recompile the stuff
<ajmitch> \sh: I think it's just that they're compiled together
<sampo_v2> \sh: even different optimizer flags can cause this bug to trigger
<\sh> ajmitch: i don't want to introduce 1. another delta between debian and ubuntu...and 2. I don't want to introduce new .so
<\sh> sampo_v2: our buildds are running with the same cflags...only and only if the source package tells otherwise...which happens...but most of the time as result with discussions upstream
<sampo_v2> \sh: the only changes to sigc++ is to make scons compile it, and to make to create a statically linked lib instead of a shared lib
<\sh> sampo_v2: ok...this is something I wanted to hear :)
<\sh> sampo_v2: so I don't have a problem with new dynamic libs
<ajmitch> \sh: I agree, I don't like getting changes from debian :)
<\sh> ajmitch: what do u think...forgetting that you are dd :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: suggested reading: http://plan99.net/autopackage/Linux_Problems#cxx
* ajmitch is still waiting for firefox to thrash into memory - yay for winxp
<\sh> ajmitch: if upstream is telling us that is better to compile the self shipped versions...
<\sh> ajmitch: thinking about static libs...and no .so
<ajmitch> \sh: I've heard similar things from upstreams before ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: i could live with it...
<\sh> ajmitch: should we test?
<ajmitch> I could live with it, but I don't like it
<ajmitch> think of things like the zlib security updates
<\sh> ajmitch: this is something else..i never said I like it, because it gives me now more work
<ajmitch> & archive bloat for package sizes
<\sh> sampo_v2: which version is upstream now?
<ajmitch> next chance I get I'm going to take an axe to my debian packages & make them work with system libgc/libffi
<sampo_v2> \sh: sorry, unknown lingo
<\sh> sampo_v2: 0.99.3 is latest debian version ... what is prefered?
<sampo_v2> \sh: 0.99 is the newest version of ardour at the moment
<\sh> sampo_v2: so we are ok with the version.
<sampo_v2> \sh: the time when there was no binary of 0.99 was a few weeks ago
<\sh> sampo_v2: I'll to you something now :) which is logged....
<sampo_v2> \sh: how about the build dependancies?
<\sh> sampo_v2: it needs to be given back to the buildds ..then it builds cleanly...
<\sh> sampo_v2: but for a word: after UVF I will create a testing package with your libs compiled in ..
<\sh> sampo_v2: so right now, the people using dapper can test the package like it is now...and after UVF I'll send a message for testing new packages with the libs compiled in from upstream source package...ok?
<\sh> sampo_v2: another thing..when are you switching to sigc++ 2.0?
<sampo_v2> \sh: does UVF really stand for Ulster Volunteer Force? :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: we are doing the 2.0 port as we speak, that meanst gtk1 => gtk2, sigc 1.2 => 2.0 etc.
<\sh> sampo_v2: Upstream Version Freeze
<ajmitch> no, I don't think Kamion is involved :)
* StevenK just loves how quickly his Perl becomes unreadable.
<sampo_v2> \sh: lol, i thought the ulster volunteer force sounded quite appropriate..
<\sh> sampo_v2: do you think it's ready just before the 19th of January?
<ajmitch> StevenK: there's no 'quickly' about it :)
<\sh> StevenK: that's perl...what do you expect?
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: most people probably don't know what the ulster volunteer force is :)
<\sh> ajmitch: right...clueless :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: good question. in beta probably, but not stable
<sampo_v2> ajmitch: neither do i, but everything2.com does!
<StevenK> ajmitch: :-)
<\sh> sampo_v2: ok...then after 19th January I'll provide some new test packages with your shipped libs compiled
<\sh> sampo_v2: and please send bugreporters who have problems with the ubuntu package to launchpad.net/malone and they should file bugs there
<\sh> sampo_v2: so we know about those issues
<\sh> ajmitch: acceptable?
<\sh> ajmitch: i think yes
<ajmitch> yeah
<sampo_v2> \sh: thank you. the next thing we (ardour devs) need to do is to convince debian to see the light as well
<sampo_v2> \sh: so dapper is the "testing" distro?
<\sh> sampo_v2: dapper is the next release to come next year in april./
<ajmitch> sampo_v2: yes, we're not making changes to the stable distro
<\sh> sampo_v2: so dapper is unstable right now
<ajmitch> we don't have a 3rd 'testing' branch
<sampo_v2> \sh: ok
<\sh> sampo_v2: thx for raising this issue and thx for coming along :)
<sampo_v2> \sh: no problem. all in a devs works
<\sh> sampo_v2: :)
<\sh> ok last cigarette...i have to be in the office at 5:00 utc
<sampo_v2> \sh: so, just to make sure i understood correctly: after the freeze, you'll throw the 'SYSLIBS=0' package in unstable?
<\sh> sampo_v2: no..I'll create a package and let the people download it from a to be announced place...(normally from my website)
<\sh> sampo_v2: to be sure that it works better then the actual one in the archives.
<\sh> sampo_v2: if there are positive responses that is has less bugs...then I upload this package to our archives
<StevenK> print $_->dump foreach ($_->content_list);
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> Maybe that's too confusing. :-)
<\sh> sampo_v2: this has to be in the timeframe between the 19th january and 23rd of february
<\sh> sampo_v2: after 23rd..there is feature freeze
<sampo_v2> \sh: ok. about the firmware stuff
<sampo_v2> \sh: should i file the bug under "ubuntu" or "ubuntu universe"?
<\sh> sampo_v2: please file a bug in buzilla.ubuntu.com
<\sh> sampo_v2: main :)
<\sh> bugzilla.ubuntu.com even
<sampo_v2> \sh: ok, i guess almost any alsa-* package will do
<\sh> sampo_v2: choose whatever is suitable
<sampo_v2> \sh: ok. i'll be in ouch if we get 2.0 out before Jan 19th
<StevenK> Oh crap. The Ubuntu ALSA team will probably punt to Debian's ALSA team, and that includes me.
<\sh> sampo_v2: sh@sourcecode.de is my email addr. feel free to mail :)
<\sh> sampo_v2: or ping me via jabber when i'm online: my JID: sh@linux-server.org
<\sh> sampo_v2: or even on irc most of the time
<sampo_v2> \sh: ok. i'll be in touch. thanks
<\sh> good night folks
<Kyral> whoa...Aptitude being removed?
<ogra> really ?
<ogra> yay
<Kyral> eh?
<Kyral> This is a good thing?
* Kyral stands stupified
<ajmitch> Kyral: libstdc++, etc
<StevenK> Wheeeeeeeeee!
* Kyral blinks
<Kyral> uhh? I just got back from break, mind explaining this one ot me?
<ogra> Kyral, if you dont like aptitude its a good thing ;)
<StevenK> steven@broken:~% version xcruise
<StevenK> $VAR1 = {
<StevenK>           'breezy' => '0.30-5ubuntu1:',
<StevenK>           'dapper' => '0.30-6ubuntu1:',
<StevenK>           'unstable' => '0.30-6:'
<StevenK>         };
<StevenK> xcruise already merged!
<Kyral> ogra I don't
<StevenK> There we go, an hour of learning LWP::Simple and HTML::TreeBuilder was worth it.
<Kyral> wait a sec, so thats why k3b is going away
<ogra> is it ?
<Kyral> and all my Boost libs
<Kyral> yah
<ajmitch> Kyral: running dapper requires reading ubuntu-devel-announce :)
<Kyral> ajmitch: I just got back from break
<ajmitch> Kyral: in short, it's another c++ transition
<Kyral> I have a load to read :P
<ajmitch> Kyral: that's great, so why are you blindly dist-upgrading? :)
<Kyral> Because I'm bored :P
<Kyral> and if something breaks, I'll fix it :D
<ogra> never dist-upgrade, just upgrade on development systems...
<Kyral> oh
<ogra> and cherrypick the held back packages ;)
<Kyral> "cherrypick"?
<ajmitch> ogra: well, that's what I tend to do unless I'm brave
<ajmitch> yes, cherrypick
<ajmitch> grab
<ogra> pick the ones you think you need
<ajmitch> install
<ogra> ajmitch, exactly ... dist-upgrade is something to do fridays if you have a whole weekend to fix stuff ;)
<Kyral> yah
<Kyral> thx for the advice :D
<Kyral> CTRL-C'd out of the cycle and changed command to upgrade :D
<Kyral> I'll Dist after finals week :P
<StevenK> ,
<StevenK> Oops.
<ajmitch> ogra: by the time we get closer to feature freeze it ought to be safer to dist-upgrade
<ogra> yup
<Kyral> when is the freeze anyway, or should I just read all the mail
* ajmitch is scared
<ajmitch> reading about potential libfreetype6 transition in debian
<ajmitch> > 500 packages affected
<Kyral> ouch
<ajmitch> the mail is basically saying that maintainers need to be more careful with library handling
<sistpoty> StevenK: did anyone sponsor offlineimap merge for you yet?
<ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/11/msg00016.html if you're interested :)
<\sh> grmpf
<\sh> i can't sleep
<ajmitch> too many merges still to do?
<ajmitch> good to see the number of merges that result in ubuntu changes being dropped
<ajmitch> less work for us for dapper+1 :)
<\sh> no...not tired somehow..well i test kde3.5
<tseng> we are getting smarter
<lifeless> ajmitch: morning
<lifeless> ajmitch: how do I get bicyclerepair from debian synced ?
<tseng> now to take a look at firefox-dev
<tseng> lifeless: tell elmo
<lifeless> tseng: it needs to keep the prior patch though
<lifeless> as debian is still python2.3 :{
<tseng> then you need to update the source and upload it
<\sh> lifeless: merging
<ajmitch> morning lifeless
<lifeless> tseng: I can't upload to ubuntu, if I could there would not be a question.
<ajmitch> lifeless: you just need to mention it & \sh will jump on it
<lifeless> \sh: thanks!
<\sh> lifeless: moment
<tseng> :D
<ajmitch> the rest of us don't have a chance
<\sh> lol
<lifeless> hmmm
<lifeless> also, fl-cow is not in dapper at all
<\sh> lifeless: ajmitch just volunteered :)
<lifeless> but the current debian build should work fine ;)
<ajmitch> when did it get into debian?
<ajmitch> elmo might need to process binary NEW in ubuntu
<lifeless> ajmitch: a year or so back, but it was FTBFS on the libc ubuntu had at the time
<tseng> or it ftbfs
<tseng> yes.
<lifeless> debian has that same libc now, and I have fixed the package before UBZ
<\sh> lifeless: which version?
<lifeless> morning ajmitch :)
<lifeless> \sh: 0.6-1
<\sh> lifeless: bicyclerepair?
<lifeless> \sh: 0.9-4
<\sh> has to be merged
<\sh> is in main
<lifeless> adds vim 6.4 support
<\sh> moment
<ajmitch> ok, will check fl-cow
<ogra> \sh !!
<\sh> hmmm
<ogra> still awake ?
<\sh> not on the merge list
<\sh> and not in bugzilla
<tseng> brandon@y0shi:~/firefox-1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg$ find . -name nsServiceManagerUtils.h
<tseng> ./xpcom/glue/nsServiceManagerUtils.h
<ajmitch>     fl-cow |      0.6-1 | http://10.18.1.1 dapper/universe Packages
<ajmitch>     fl-cow |      0.6-1 | http://10.18.1.1 dapper/universe Sources
<lifeless> hmm
<ajmitch> seems fine
<tseng> but .install
<tseng> debian/tmp/usr/include/mozilla-firefox usr/include
<tseng> it must not be getting copied
<tseng> works on gentoo apperantly
<\sh> lifeless: well...I could do it tomorrow just because I switched of my other laptop
<lifeless> \sh: no rush
<\sh> ogra: or can u merge it ;) or ajmitch ...all have main upload rights :)
<ajmitch> \sh: ok, if you want :)
<lifeless> there should be 0 packaging work involved, other than redo the python2.3->2.4 sed ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: i don't want ..
<\sh> ajmitch: ... at all
<\sh> what's the irc nick of phillip kern?
<ajmitch> pkern
<ajmitch> \sh: you don't want me to merge? ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: merge dude merge :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<\sh> not online somehow
<\sh> he should give me his new gobby package...
<\sh> and I make his dreams come true, that his new package is earlier in ubuntu then in debian :)
<\sh> hahaha
<ogra> GOBBY !!!
<ajmitch> I'd be surprised
<ogra> damned, i havent prepared the main inclusion report for it yet
<ajmitch> ogra: your friend?
<tseng> hi ogra :)
<ogra> ajmitch, a thing i eagerly want for edubuntu
<ogra> it has a dedicated server mode in the latest version ...
<lifeless> with extra crashing ?
<ogra> :P
<ogra> it didnt crash for me at ubz... i dont know what youre all are talking about :)
<\sh> hehe..
<\sh> he just answered on his blog...he is preparing the last fixes for his sources...he has to ping me
<\sh> http://blog.philkern.de/archives/88-C++-ABI-transitions.html
<\sh> ogra: no crashes for me at ubz as well
<ajmitch> ogra: it didn't silently eat your document when someone's gobby session died?
<ogra> nope
<\sh> k...brb
<\sh> switching
<ajmitch> heh, the 'ubuntu plague'
<tseng> the only ubuntu plague is carried by sladen
<ajmitch> interesting to see how a few DDs think that way
<tseng> i cant believe im building firefox
<tseng> my poor electic bill
<tseng> +r
<sistpoty> StevenK: I just uploaded the offlineimap debdiff from you
<ajmitch> lifeless: looks like MoM was shutdown before bicyclerepair was uploaded
<ajmitch> so it's merge by hand
<ajmitch> if \sh_away didn't finish it :)
<tseng> ajmitch: MoM is shutdown still?
<ajmitch> tseng: I think so
<tseng> for good?
<ajmitch> nope
<tseng> ok :)
<ajmitch> it'd be bad if it was
<sistpoty> hm... I always merge by hand...
<tseng> i knew there was an early stop to merges
<ajmitch> since we still have a few weeks of UVF left
<tseng> sistpoty: i merge by memory =/
<tseng> im the worst
<sistpoty> omg ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: you don't use MoM debdiffs?
<sistpoty> ajmitch: no... i use newest unstable source and latest breezy source and check the changelog
<tseng> i just reapply my changes and throw it up there
<sladen> tseng: thom's fault doth I protest
<ajmitch> sistpoty: ok, and the other way is to use ubuntu source, debian source, and common ancestor
<ajmitch> sladen: you're unfairly maligned
<ajmitch> sistpoty: eg for bicyclerepair I can split out an ubuntu debdiff like MoM does
<\sh> wow
<tseng> ajmitch is DaD
<ajmitch> & I see the only change we made is build depends
<ajmitch> :P
<\sh> wow..this is really fast
<tseng> http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/
<tseng> this is some pretty slick javascript for ff 1.5 users
<ajmitch> \sh: what is?
<\sh> kde3.5
<ajmitch> ah
<sladen> tseng: watchout, otherwise it'll magically turn into a new Lauchpad Feature
<\sh> much faster then 3.4
<ajmitch> almost as fast as gnome ;)
<\sh> ajmitch: sorry to say..but gnome is slow
<tseng> sladen: feature, bug, or UI insanity?
<\sh> ajmitch: check it out...i mean it's not stable right now...but what you see is quite nice
<tseng> s/insanity/blooper
<ajmitch> I think bicyclerepair could just be synced, rather than merged
<\sh> ajmitch: without the python change?
<ajmitch> \sh: it was python-dev ->python2.4-dev
<\sh> uh..
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> then rather sync
<ajmitch> :)
<lifeless> sweet
<lifeless> what about fl-cow ?
<\sh> ok..now i can go to bed :)
<ajmitch> well it looks like it's current in dapper
<\sh> good night :)
<ajmitch> it just didn't make it for breezy
<lifeless> ajmitch: strange, I can't see it in aptitude here ?
<lifeless> I have universe enabled
<ajmitch> it's there
<ajmitch> which mirror are you using?
<lifeless> .au
<ajmitch> probably points to us
<ajmitch> which is probably still broken
<lifeless> hmm ?
<lifeless> 'us' or .us ?
<ogra> us points to a.u.c
<ogra> its unbroken ...
<tseng> pandora.ucs.uwa.edu.au
<tseng> is the final destination
<ajmitch> lifeless: packages.ubuntu.com/fl-cow shows it
<tseng> us.archive.ubuntu.com is an alias for ubuntu.mirrors.tds.net.
<lifeless> ajmitch: well, thats good enough for me.
<tseng> Filename: pool/universe/f/fl-cow/fl-cow_0.6-1_i386.deb
<ogra> tseng, hmm, last week it pointed to the main archive
<lifeless> danke
<tseng> ogra: i dunno, i dont use it anymore
<tseng> it is broken more than its not
<tseng> and when its not it points to archive anyway
<ogra> thats why elmo said he had it pointing to a.u.c now
<ogra> yeah
* tseng decides to watch a movie while firefox builds
<bojan_> hi
* Kyral gahs
<Kyral> I might have to fix FlowDesigner on my own
<ajmitch> Kyral: is that a problem?
<Kyral> No....but I was waiting for the Devs to email me
<Kyral> I sent the problem upstream
<Kyral> add the fact it isn't something I know how to fix off the top of my head :P
<Kyral> Ah well, learning experiance :D
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-03
<sistpoty> args... libghemical0 *is* evil :(
<Kyral> why is that
<sistpoty> it links agains c++ and is being built by g++-3.4... and g++-3.4 is not only used by libghemical0 but also gets drawn in by one build-depends which is some fortran stuff
<sistpoty> and still I don't have much of a clue
<Kyral> ouch
<sistpoty> at least i now know where ghemicals random segfaults come from *g*
<Kyral> Is this for the MOTUScience team?
<sistpoty> oh, is there a MOTUSciences team?
* Kyral falls down
<Kyral> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUScience
<sistpoty> he, seems i missed that ;)
<sistpoty> at least I know where to call for help now... thx Kyral :)
<Kyral> Hey its led by two newbies :P
<sistpoty> *g*
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> sistpoty: delegate ;)
* Kyral looks confused
<ajmitch> sistpoty: probably something to talk to azeem about anyway
<sistpoty> ajmitch: i will :)
<Kyral> Well, we have a MOTU on the team, but AFAIK LJ and I have done the most work
<azeem> sistpoty: can't do much about the fortran stuff in ghemical
<azeem> sistpoty: however, the new ghemical version doesn't segfault anymore, I put up breezy packages at people.debian.org/~mbanck/ubuntu-breezy
<sistpoty> azeem: do you know whether fortran stuff is c only or using c++ as well?
<azeem> c only?
<sistpoty> azeem: i just tried to figure out if the fortran-libs need to be compiled with gfortran to get rid of gcc-3.4
<sistpoty> azeem: if these don't depend on any specific c++-stuff, it should be safe to leave them as is
<azeem> I don't think they depend on c++ stuff
<sistpoty> that's good :)
<sistpoty> azeem: for your new packages: will libghemical be compiled with g++4?
<azeem> yes
<sistpoty> azeem: ok, then I guess I'll wait for these to hit unstable and request a sync... ok?
<azeem> sure
<sistpoty> cool, thx :)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: see, delegation is great ;)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: it is, thx for the introduction :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: do you think we should bump standards-version for a merge (if appropriate and there are other changes as well)?
<ajmitch> only if it's reasonable to do so
<ajmitch> if it were the only change I woudn't :)
<ajmitch> & if you do the proper upgrade check
<sistpoty> hm... i personally wouldn't even if i did other changes, to keep the delta as small as possible... but I'm just thinking of sponsoring an upload for zakame
<ajmitch> I'd stay away from making the change usually
<hub> can someone please push libiptcdata from REVU?
<hub> it as lost its vote because I updated the distribution field
<sistpoty> hub: i just took a glimpse at libiptcdata... please check the -dbg library, which has strange contents
<sistpoty> hub: /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/libiptcdata.so.0.3.0
<sistpoty> hub: otherwise it's really nice :)
<ajmitch> still awake, sistpoty ? :)
<sistpoty> ajmitch: yep... but not for long
<sistpoty> hub: and another thing: the -doc package installs to /usr/share/gtk-doc/... intended?
<hub> sistpoty: oh
<hub> crap
<hub> sistpoty: that is where the upstream installs
<hub> sistpoty: the docs
<sistpoty> hub: maybe you could change this ;)
<sistpoty> ok, now i really need some sleep... gn8 everyone
<hub> make sense
<Kyral> hey LJ
<LaserJock> Hi Kyral
<Kyral> how goes it
<LaserJock> well, kinda busy right now. I finally heard from the guy who made the original Packaging Guide right after I just had it put in the doc team repo. Oh, and I spent 3 1/2 hr at Walmart getting a flat tire fixed >:-(
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch> ah, the fun of walmart
<LaserJock> well, at least it was free
<LaserJock> my wife was about to go ballistic
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> she had had enough of Walmart after the 1st hour :-)
* ajmitch has only recently had the joy of visiting walmart
<ajmitch> since we 'sadly' don't have them in NZ ;)
<LaserJock> then I got home and my brother from WA called and said that the graphics card I got with him didn't work
<Kyral> lol
<LaserJock> oh and the memory we got didn't work either
<magnon> morning guys
<magnon> hey andrew
<LaserJock> all I can say is the Dell Dimension 3000 is no fun
<ajmitch> hey magnon
<magnon> my laptop should be back soon so I can get work done again
<magnon> silly apple
<StevenK> Wheee, my first merge has been uploaded!
<StevenK> But I'm not whitelisted, so I didn't see the mail. :-(
<lifeless> ajmitch: so, I want to become an ubuntu 'member'
<lifeless> ajmitch: and then MOTU
<ajmitch> lifeless: excellent..
<lifeless> I've wikied my obvious stuff up
<lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertCollins
<magnon> argh. stupid outlook. why on earth does it decide to download every single email from an imap server_
<lifeless> probably your IMAP ids changed
<ajmitch> lifeless: you have the advantage of having been drinking with the CC & TB members :)
<magnon> first time I added the account, so no
<lifeless> magnon: in which case its at a minimum scanning the headers, and possibly more depending on your settings
<lifeless> ajmitch: true, but there is due process
<Jimbob> magnon: If it didn't, then it couldn't create a massive 1GB file of all your stuff -- and loose it all it when it hits a bad sector on the disk :-)
<lifeless> ajmitch: putting in 'been drinking with Mark' isn't /exactly/ a 'contribution'
<StevenK> Heh, it could work in your favour. :-)
<magnon> lifeless: I never configure, I assume sane defaults. And it downloads everything, which is insane :)
<lifeless> StevenK: ;)
<ajmitch> no, but being a DD can probably help
<ajmitch> lifeless: if you've got time & are willing to help out in general, we're mainly doing merges at the moment
<lifeless> ajmitch: anyway, you're closer to this bit of the process than I am regularly : am I in the right ballpark, or should I put in a dedicated weekend or two bugfixing not-stuff-I-maintain ?
<lifeless> ajmitch: I am happy to help out in general, for sure.
<ajmitch> a bit of time getting some fixes in will work in your favour
<ajmitch> mako has been turning people away that have done lots, but over a short time
<ajmitch> for ubuntu membership
<lifeless> see, maybe I'm being harsh, but I fix lots of bugs: often before they hit ubuntu ;)
<lifeless> but I'm not claiming those as contributions, it seems wrong to me to do so.
<ajmitch> which is good, but it depends whether they see that :)
<lifeless> yah
<StevenK> I'm going to skip this CC meeting and put my name down for the next one.
<StevenK> Then we'll see what Mako has to say. :-)
<Kyral> Membership?
<lifeless> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember
<Kyral> I know what it is
<Kyral> I was asking if StevenK was going for it
<lifeless> heh, the ? was ambiguous then
<Kyral> I plan to go for it the soonest I don't have class during a Meeting
<ajmitch> at the moment there's nothing else I can go for, except fixing more bugs & getting new things in
<StevenK> Kyral: Not this meeting (which is 6/12), but the one after
<Kyral> yah
<StevenK> Can I close Malone bugs in an upload?
<StevenK> A'la: (Closes: #235433) in the changelog for Debian.
<crimsun> StevenK: no, hasn't been coupled yet (I do miss that feature)
<StevenK> crimsun: So noted. I'll note the bug number in the changelog anyway.
<viviersf> yo yo
<ajmitch> hi
<StevenK> Oh. The debdiff between ntop 3.0-3ubuntu1 and ntop 3.2ubuntu1 is 7Mb.
* StevenK really ponders the necessity of that before throwing it to Launchpad.
* StevenK ponders a debdiff between 3.2-1 and 3.2-1ubunt1, which is much smaller.
<ajmitch> I think the smaller debdiff is probably more useful
<ajmitch> just as a guess
<zakame> hello
<minghua> StevenK: I would always post the debdiff between debian and new ubuntu
<zakame> hey minghua :D how's the merging?
<minghua> zakame: I didn't do much with merging last week
<minghua> zakame: I got the scim package in Debian ready for the libstdc++ transition though
<zakame> woo
* crimsun merges vlc 0.8.4.debian-1
<zakame> slomo_: ping, got a sec for hardware-monitor? :)
<drbyte> hello MOTUs
<drbyte> i have a problem with one of your packages *grin*
<zakame> ooh
<drbyte> gforge
<drbyte> its got a dependency loop
<zakame> can you fix it? :) a debdiff or two might make motus jump for joy :p
<drbyte> hmm. if you guys are willing to help (i'm really a fedora developer, not a DD), i'll take a gander in a bit
<zakame> cool!
<drbyte> ok, well, i'll be fiddling with it today/tmrw then
<minghua> drbyte: is there already a bug filed?
<drbyte> minghua: i haven't actually checked. i found this last week, but i've had a lot of work to do since then. i have a few moments now, so i'm about to be checking
<minghua> drbyte: thanks.  if you file a bug that explain the situation clearly, I think it won't be hard for some MOTU to get a patch out even if you can't
<zakame> checking https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gforge
<drbyte> minghua: i'm sure i can get a patch out... i just have to learn a bit about these magical debian/rules and what not ...
<drbyte> i'm used to spec files
<StevenK> drbyte: The problem is more than likely in debian/control.
<drbyte> StevenK: see, toldja its new
<drbyte> i've got some stuff to do atm, i'll come back later and prod ok. thanks
<zakame> err, is libmagick6-dev dropped?  I've got a b-d to it from nip2, won't build
<zakame> there's libmagick9-dev which seems to replace 6, but libvips10-dev needs 6
<zakame> never mind...
<siretart> morning
<crimsun> morning
<crimsun> vlc_0.8.4.debian-1ubuntu1 uploaded :))
<lucas> hi
<lucas> somebody has some time to review motutools ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1036
<dholbach> hello
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hey crimsun :)
<zakame> heya dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey zakame :)
<ajmitch> hi
<siretart> morning ajmitch ;) hi *
<siretart> has anybody heared about OpenC++?
<sivang> morning all
<zakame> er
<Tonio_> morning all
<zakame> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hi zakame
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hey \sh
* ajmitch waits for the merge upload flood
<ajmitch> crimsun: seen keybuk's mail about wpasupplicant?
<crimsun> ajmitch: n'yet, doing work stuff atm
<ajmitch> k
<\sh> ajmitch: oh well...I'm since 5:00 UTC in the office...and already worked...waiting now for one more meeting and after that I'm going home and sleep...
<ajmitch> *ouch*
* ajmitch only stayed at office until 6:30pm
<crimsun> ajmitch: thanks
<ajmitch> & that was late for me, because I was moving an install of our app from 1 server to another
<\sh> ajmitch: lets wait for elmo...he has to do a lot of syncs for me :)
<ajmitch> yeah, I've seen a huge list you asked for ;)
<ajmitch> I'm taking things easy at the moment, sorry
<\sh> ajmitch: no problem at all...I was just burning ,)
<dholbach> do we all agree on dropping http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUPackages ?
* siretart agrees
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it's very obsolete
<dholbach> done
<siretart> dholbach: while you are at it, I think the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps is obsolete, too
<ajmitch> about the only thing I used it for was noting what packages I cared for in debian
<dholbach> and we should move to a MOTU/* structure :)
<siretart> dholbach: I think we should drop the lower part (as noted on the page)
<ajmitch> but noone would look at MOTUPackages to know to not trample on my packages ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: I think we should have something like http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=ajmitch@debian.org for universe
<\sh> well...I will write a spec today (later this day) for bjornT_ to have a support tracker system related to teams.
<siretart> hi \sh
<siretart> \sh: that would be awesome
<ajmitch> siretart: something like that
<dholbach> siretart: sounds ok, to drop it... we just need a way to say "i work on this" or "this patch needs review"
<ajmitch> \sh: if we can get it related to default bug assignment ,it would be great
<ajmitch> dholbach: malone!
<dholbach> maybe we should have a tag on malone for that
<ajmitch> well
<dholbach> RequestedReview or something
<siretart> we basically need a list of malone bugs
<\sh> ajmitch: well...first of all....the support tracker should handle "UniverseCandidates" requests by ubuntu/ubuntu users
<siretart> non motus should imo attach debdiffs to malone bugs, which are linked in one central place
<dholbach> \sh: then we need a way to filter
<\sh> ajmitch: secondly for unmet deps...we should use malone...
<siretart> perhaps we can script something small on tiber for that
<ajmitch> \sh: I agree
<siretart> dholbach: filtering what exactly?
<\sh> dholbach: which is on the todo of LP guys...because filtering is just not working because of the load
<ajmitch> malone works much much better than the wiki, even with its flaws
<\sh> dholbach: right now, I can't encourage people to use the "PendingUpload" flag...because we never find it again
<dholbach> \sh, siretart: \sh wants to put UniverseCandidates on the support tracker - i just said, that we *then* needed filtering
<siretart> dholbach: filtering in malone works by creating a new group for the task, and assigning bugs to that group
* dholbach wonders who will be in the MOTUReviewers team :(
<\sh> dholbach: u know that support tracker is something else...and it's not possible right now, to file support request against a team...that's what we have to change
<ajmitch> dholbach: I will
<siretart> dholbach: I think we should to it both for .debdiff attachments and for UniverseCandidates
<siretart> dholbach: thats easy
<ajmitch> dholbach: some days I'd rather review stuff than burn through merges ;)
<siretart> dholbach: the group ubuntu-developers will be in the MOTUReviewers Team
<dholbach> siretart: i don't think they want to be bothered by those "bugs"
* ajmitch creates yet more merge work for MOTUs
<siretart> dholbach: they will be not
<siretart> dholbach: it is to get this list: http://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers/+assignedbugs
<siretart> dholbach: thats the only reliable way for filtering bugs in malone for now
<dholbach> please list all the new teams on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeams
<siretart> ubuntu-developers will not be bugged by this list. in fact, it does not matter who joins this team. it is just for bug sorting
* siretart is currently at work, but I will look after this this evening
<dholbach> thanks
<siretart> if nobody does first
<siretart> if nobody does earlier
<dholbach> siretart: and yes, the lower part of universeunmetdeps seems ready to go
<siretart> does anyone object on the approach?
<ajmitch> siretart: no
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> siretart: we can't argue with a main uploader ;)
<siretart> ajmitch: sorry?
<ajmitch> don't worry, I was just kidding
<siretart> (I mean, all 4 persons in this discussion are main uploads)
<siretart> main uploaders
<ajmitch> yep
<siretart> ok
<ajmitch> a good number of MOTUs are now
<siretart> I think thats good
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it shows we're not just 2nd rate hacks :)
<ajmitch> and that we do have a clue, even \sh :)
<\sh> hehehe
<siretart> :)
* ajmitch wonders when his upload will be acknowledged by katie
<ajmitch> ubuntu has spoilt me with quick response times
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found
<ajmitch> (Exit status 2)
<ajmitch> f-spot_0.1.3-2_i386.changes has bad PGP/GnuPG signature!
<ajmitch> signed with wrong key
* ajmitch tries again
<ajmitch> sigh, I forgot that debian doesn't clean the ftp queue after a bad upload
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK giggles at ajmitch.
<StevenK> ajmitch: jennifer on spohr is only every 20 minutes.
<ajmitch> StevenK: after a few hundred uploads to ubuntu, where you can upload as fast as you want, it spoils you
* StevenK is still waiting to be spoilt. ;-P
<ajmitch> you'll get your turn
* StevenK works on another merge.
<StevenK> ajmitch: Did you hear/see? offlineimap is in dapper.
<StevenK> Well, my offlineimap.
<ajmitch> well done :)
<StevenK> But my address wasn't whitelisted, so I missed getting spoken to by Katie.
* StevenK wuvs Katie.
<ajmitch> I'm sure you didn't miss much
<StevenK> But ... but ... but ... my first message from the Ubuntu DAK install!
<StevenK> (Katie is part of the reason I started Linda, btw.)
<ajmitch> just bug elmo each day to whitelist you :)
<StevenK> That may involve my key accidently disappearing from the keyring. :-)
<ajmitch> heh
<siretart> ok. no lunch for today
<ajmitch> then you could have the fun of getting a new key & bugging elmo all over again
* StevenK shivers.
<zakame> hi
* StevenK notes pingus doesn't need any work at all.
<ajmitch> we've managed to get lots of syncs
<ajmitch> which means a lighter workload next time round
<zakame> yup, it seems
<StevenK> ajmitch: So I just ask elmo to sync pingus from unstable?
<ajmitch> StevenK: if the ubuntu changes can be dropped, and the debian package works ok, then a MOTU can ask him
<ajmitch> I think he ignores requests from non-MOTUs
<StevenK> Awww.
* StevenK pouts.
<StevenK> Let me try the straight Debian packages.
<ajmitch> it's an incentive to become onw
<ajmitch> s/onw/one/
<StevenK> Of course, but I don't want to get smacked down on my first attempt.
<siretart> I'm going to create a motureviewers launchpad group now, okay?
<zakame> oooh
<StevenK> Whee.
<ajmitch> siretart: ok
<ajmitch> will we need to join it, or is the group just a formality?
<siretart> hm. it needs a contact email adress
<StevenK> universe-bugs :-P
<ajmitch> another mailing list on tiber
<siretart> StevenK: thats the problem: universe-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com is taken by the motu group
<siretart> StevenK: and lp does not allow to use the same email address by 2 groups
<StevenK> Right. A sync isn't going to work.
<siretart> okay, I'll create another mailling list on tiber, as ajmitch suggests
<ajmitch> StevenK: good thing you didn't ask for one then
<StevenK> Well, geez, I was going to try building it first.
<StevenK> What do you think I am, a Mandrake developer? :-P
<ajmitch> ah, mandrake..
* ajmitch has fond memories of that
<StevenK> *spit*
<ajmitch> StevenK: it was what drove me to debian
<StevenK> RedHat 7.0 sucking so hard drove me to hamm/slink.
<StevenK> I never installed it, I was on RedHat 6.{1,2} at the time.
<ajmitch> I stayed with mandrake right through till potato
<StevenK> Dear me.
<StevenK> ajmitch: When did you become a DD?
<ajmitch> start of this year
<ajmitch> so I'm quite new :)
<azeem> Received application: 2001-12-11
<ajmitch> azeem: yes, I went on hold for a little while
* StevenK looks his up.
<ajmitch> iirc you even sponsored 1 or 2 of my uploads
<StevenK> Received application: 2001-07-12
<azeem> ajmitch: me?  I remember some gnu.net stuff or whatever that is called, yeah
<ajmitch> yeah
<azeem> or gnuenterprise?
<ajmitch> dotgnu
<azeem> right
<ajmitch> jbailey sponsored most of my gnu enterprise uploads
* StevenK tries to stop getting distracted by pingus and fix his wifes machine.
<azeem> StevenK: before to test the package before requesting a sync
<azeem> eh
<azeem> s/before/be sure/
<StevenK> azeem: It doesn't build anyway, so the point is moot.
<azeem> ah
<siretart> ajmitch: please proofread https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUReviewers
<dholbach> siretart: looks good
<siretart> :)
<Riddell> appreciate your work you -> appreciate the work you
<siretart> my orthography really sucks. sorry :(
<siretart> dholbach: now you and ubuntu-dev are administrators of that team
<Riddell> "the study or use of correct spelling", well well, better volcabularly than me :)
<dholbach> siretart: and you?
<dholbach> Riddell: :)
<siretart> dholbach: and me :)
* StevenK struggles to find a working floppy in the house.
<siretart> dholbach: what about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToReview - I think that page can be deleted
<dholbach> oooh yeah, we decided on that MUCH earlier :)
<siretart> :)
<dholbach> done
<siretart> great
<dholbach> motunewpackages too
<siretart> how to delete wiki pages, btw?
<dholbach> there's a dropdown menu
<siretart> *selfslap*
<siretart> how obvious
<dholbach> how recent is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseNewPackages ?
<dholbach> it's needed - i'm not discussing to throw it away :)
<ajmitch> siretart: 'we have now a' is usually 'we now have a'
<ajmitch> siretart: shall I just edit, or are you editing at the moment?
<siretart> ajmitch: please edit it, yes
<siretart> I'm not editing it atm
<ajmitch> ok, done
<StevenK> Right. Who last uploaded clanlib?
* ajmitch points fingers wildly
<ajmitch> StevenK: problems with it?
<StevenK> Yes.
<dholbach> linda is not happy with it? ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: Either the libraries don't Provide the packages they Conflict/Replace, or libclanlib-dev's dependancy's need updating.
<ajmitch> libclanlib-dev looks broken..
<StevenK> (And there doesn't seem to be Provides anywhere)
<StevenK> And there *ought* to be.
<ajmitch> why should there be Provides?
<ajmitch> especially when there's an SONAME change
<ajmitch> adding Provides is asking for trouble
<StevenK> ajmitch: Because the C++ transition says to put them in?
<StevenK> At least, I think it does.
<ajmitch> I hope not
<ajmitch> ok, libclanlib-dev does depend on 2c2 packages in debian
<ajmitch> so it should depend on the 2c2a packages
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> When that happens, pingus can be synced.
<StevenK> ajmitch: You'll fix?
<ajmitch> & then the patch for clanlib can be attached to #339157
<ajmitch> yeah
<StevenK> If I had upload rights, I'd do it.
<ajmitch> done, will build, check & upload
<ajmitch> one of the good things is that if we make mistakes, others can happily fix them :)
<ajmitch> assuming they get caught before release
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch> NMUs in debian still carry a bit of a stigma
<ajmitch> siretart: can we subscribe to motu-reviewers?
* dholbach did so
* ajmitch is looking for somewhere to subscribe :)
<ajmitch> I'm meaning to the mailing lsit
<dholbach> ah right
<ajmitch> so that we see when people want stuff reviewed
<ajmitch> instead of checking a page somewhere
<ajmitch> StevenK: clanlib still building..
<StevenK> Right.
<StevenK> I coulda built it faster. :-P
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> I've got a slow box
<StevenK> ajmitch: I can show off ...
<ajmitch> my box is > 3 years old now
<ajmitch> it still pushes out packages, having 1GB RAM makes it bearable
<StevenK> ajmitch: So's this ...
<siretart> ajmitch: of course you can, it is a public mailing list
<ajmitch> siretart: sure, but where do I sign up? :)
<siretart> ajmitch: I just linked the listinfo and web archives page
<siretart> to MOTUReviewers
<siretart> http://tauware.de/mailman/listinfo/motu-reviewers
<ajmitch> ok, I see it now
<ajmitch> I'm just blind
<siretart> so am I
<siretart> sometimes ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: After clanlib is uploaded, how long does it take to hit the archive?
<siretart> StevenK: cron.daily is run every 15 minutes
<StevenK> Or should I give up on it for tonight?
* StevenK pays a little attention to the wriggly puppy on his lap.
<siretart> StevenK: usually it takes about 1 or 2h to be on the mirrors, assuming that no NEW love  is necessary (and package is not on dep-wait)
<StevenK> Who'd like pictures? :-)
<siretart> wriggly puppy?
<ajmitch> and it'll get uploaded in a few minutes
<StevenK> Yup. I have a 13 week old Manchester Terrier on my lap at the moment.
<ajmitch> hah, nice :)
<StevenK> http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/photos/puppy-151005/
<StevenK> Those are a week or so old, and some of the shots are very crappy.
<siretart> sweet :)
<ajmitch> very nice
<ajmitch> & one cat perched up high
<StevenK> Yes. The cat knows how to get away. :-)
<dholbach> StevenK: where are the pictures of things he? (she? couldn't see that bit on the pictures :-p) gnawed away?
<StevenK> dholbach: He. And at the moment, he mostly gnaws on soft toys and pigs ears. They just look a little damp, so very boring.
<dholbach> i see :)
<dholbach> so no chair legs looking funny? no shoes gnawed away? :)
<StevenK> Right!
* dholbach knows that all too well ;)
<siretart> ah, ajmitch obviously found the subscription page :)
<lucas> I uploaded a new motutools to REVU. would be cool if somebody could review it. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1036
<StevenK> dholbach: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/00001.jpg
<ajmitch> siretart: eventually :)
<StevenK> Crappy photo, but you get the point. :-)
* ajmitch finds a livejournal to read
<ajmitch> fyi, Subject: clanlib_0.6.5-1-3ubuntu3_source.changes ACCEPTED
<StevenK> Whee
<StevenK> ajmitch: Mine? :-P
<ajmitch> yep
<dholbach> StevenK: i see :)
<StevenK> Dear. I was joking.
<ajmitch> now we wait patiently for the buildds
<raphink> anyone has time to review a few packages?
<raphink> ;)
<StevenK> ajmitch: What are you still doing up? You usually bugger off to bed an hour ago?
<StevenK> ajmitch: And my LiveJournal is boring, anyway.
<ajmitch> yeah, I don't know why I'm still awake actually
<ajmitch> I'm not reading it right now :)
<StevenK> :-P
<StevenK> Right. My wife is dragging me away to watch some MASH
<ajmitch> my condolences
<ajmitch> night :)
<StevenK> But, MASH is good!
<StevenK> I'll be coming back. :-)
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> mistake in clanlib
<ajmitch> missing - in a package name
<ajmitch> another upload round coming up :)
<raphink> Microsoft Agent Scripting Helper ?
* raphink googled MASH
* ajmitch wanders off for sleep
<StevenK> raphink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2AA%2AS%2AH_%28TV_series%29
<siretart> slomo: hi
<siretart> slomo: do you know if rbelem actually wants to work on low latency patches for the linux kernel?
<siretart> slomo: he put this on MOTUMedia
<slomo> siretart: no idea... let's ask him when he's here again
<siretart> ok
<siretart> I'm not too happy with the list of packages on MOTUMedia, actually..
<siretart> because lists on the wiki tend to get outdated, and to be honest, I don't get the sense of them..
<zakame> hi again :)
<StevenK> But lists on the wiki are fun!
<slomo> siretart: yes, imho we can remove the list, maybe only as a wishlist but not to keep track of the current versions
<zakame> what list?
<siretart> slomo: I think we should rather get https://launchpad.net/people/motumedia/+packages work
<siretart> but I honestly don't know yet how to do it
<slomo> siretart: afaik it's not usuable atm
<siretart> slomo: for checking the latest version, we could install a script on tiber, which does uscan them on a regular basis
<siretart> debian does this, iirc
<slomo> siretart: yes, someone made a nice script for this... but i don't remember his name :(
<slomo> lucas iirc
<lucas> ?
<siretart> that reminds me, I wanted to review his motutools package..
<lucas> siretart: good idea :)
<lucas> slomo: my script doesn't uscan yet
<siretart> lucas: I didn't take a closer look yet, but as said, I'm not happy with that dependency on ruby :(
<lucas> slomo: it gets debian's and ubuntu's Sources files and parse them to retrieve the version numbers
<siretart> lucas: at the first glance, the packaging itself looked fine
<slomo> lucas: oh yes... right
<lucas> siretart: as said on the wiki page, it's temporary until sbody rewrites the "mts" script in python
<lucas> then, ruby1.8 can be moved from Depends to Recommends
<siretart> lucas: yes, I know. I didn't find time to do it yet, because I really need to work on revu2 instead
<lucas> I'll do that, but it's not my priority
<lucas> currently I'm the only contributor and user, so this ruby1.8 dependancy doesn't bother me :-)
<siretart> I see
<siretart> but I think you also ship the lpbugs.py and fetchpackage scripts, do you?
<lucas> no
<siretart> hm
<siretart> I see..
<lucas> my scripts currently aim at managing packages lists efficiently
<lucas> like: finding which packages are of interested for me, what are their versions in debian & ubuntu, etc.
<lucas> there's an example on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools
<StevenK> lucas: You're the author of newmerge.py and friends?
<lucas> no
<janimo> anybody know what the resolution was regarding spurios config.{sub,guess} diffs because of them being regenerated on build?
<lucas> I'm the author of what is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools
<slomo> StevenK: did you already ask elmo to whitelist you for katie?
<janimo> and is there a req that autotools-dev is not to be BD: upon as it is always present?
<StevenK> slomo: No, I haven't.
<StevenK> Well, I have now.
<StevenK> And with that, I bugger off to bed.
<slomo> ok :) gn8
<siretart> gn8 StevenK
<slomo> *sigh* already ~10 packages to sync...
<zakame> janimo: if config.{g,s} gets copied back from /usr/share/misc via prebuild or clean...
<zakame> gn8 StevenK
<janimo> zakame: so we can/should dep on autotools-dev in that case right?
<janimo> it is not part of build-essential
<janimo> ?
<zakame> janimo: yup. see /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian :)
<janimo> zakame, thanks
<zakame> though sometimes merely copying those files isn't enough, sometimes there's a need for a full autotools rebuild too, but I think that's more a problem for the DD than for a motu :)
<slomo> it's sometimes also a problem for us
<slomo> and not too rarely ;)
<zakame> yes, when build fails :((
<eruin> any known issues with xine / totem-xine atm?
<zakame> siretart: do I have to be subbed to motureviewers to use it, or only recommended? :)
<eruin> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5155
<eruin> should I file a bug?
<eruin> not sure where to go with this since I'm using totem-xine ;)
<raphink> maybe on #ubuntu-devel eruin
<slomo> eruin: better file a bug
<azeem> #ubuntu-devel isn't for general discussion about bugs
<eruin> I thought they'd bite my head off if I came screaming in there ala "totem crashes!!"
<eruin> slomo, malone, totem-xine?
<slomo> eruin: only 'totem'... that's how the source package is named
<eruin> bear with me ;)
<eruin> filed as 5128
<siretart> zakame: no, its note necessary. just assign bugs to motureviewers
<siretart> it is not necessary
<zakame> siretart: ok then. :D thanks :)
<zakame> err, where's gccmakedep?
<janimo> do you know whether auto syncing from debian stopped? The list archives was touched on Sat Nov 26
<dholbach> janimo: i don't think so
<janimo> dholbach, but MOM did stop?
<dholbach> janimo: yes
<dholbach> janimo: but will go on soon again
<janimo> ok thanks
<lucas> I'd like libgtk-trayicon-ruby to be synch from debian. Who should I request this to ? (elmo ?) Who can do this ? (I'm not an Ubuntu member)
<ecobuntu> could someone running flight 1 answer my extremely trival rhythmbox question.  i installed flight 1 because i wanted to check it out and i noticed a really cool french station on rhythmbox that was there as a default
<ecobuntu> could someone tell me the URL
<ecobuntu> i have subsequently reinstalled breezy
<\sh> ecobuntu: #ubuntu please
<ecobuntu> ok but no one was running dapper and i figured the likelihood was higher here
<azeem> ecobuntu: you could just download and extract the rb .deb from dapper, and try to find the file which lists the radio stations
<ecobuntu> thanks
<ecobuntu> i'll give that a shot
<dholbach> ajmitch: having connection problems?
<ogra> dholbach, he's just bored and unplugs/replugs the cable all the time ;)
<dholbach> i see
* dholbach understands
<\sh> uh...gambas has some nasty links
<\sh> Makefile.am:     ln -s $(DESTDIR)$(bindir)/gbx $(ROOT)/usr/bin/gbx; \
<\sh> bah
<Seveas> eww
<\sh> jepp...and looks like they're obsolete
<\sh> that is really weired
<\sh> @if test "$(DESTDIR)$(bindir)" != "$(ROOT)/usr/bin" && test "$(DESTDIR)$(bindir)" != "$(ROOT)/usr/
<\sh> bin/"; then \
<Ubugtu> Error: No closing quotation
* dholbach pats Ubugtu on the back
<Kyral> hey mitch
<Kyral> hey LJ
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> Anyone know how to detach and reattach a running irssi session?
<azeem> screen does that
<Kyral> so like if I had Irssi running on my home machine and SSH'd in from my laptop I could use that to send the irssi session to the SSH?
<azeem> yes
<Kyral> very cool
<Kyral> though I swore there was an Irssi command for it
<azeem> Kyral: maybe there is, but I am not aware of it
<azeem> screen is a much more general solution, anyway
<Kyral> so I start Irssi with screen, then manipulate it
<azeem> you first start screen, then irssi from inside of it
<Kyral> ah
<Kyral> and to redirect it..
<azeem> then, you can detach it and reattach your screen session from another terminal
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<Kyral> and when I am done I just detach it?
<LaserJock> dholbach: are you going to be at the next CC meeting? I was thinking of going for membership
<dholbach> LaserJock: i think so - when is it?
<Kyral> Next Tuesday
<dholbach> ah ok
<LaserJock> 2005-12-06 14:00
<Kyral> GMT :P
<dholbach> LaserJock: with whom did you work most in here?
<Kyral> I need to see if I can show up
<LaserJock> dholbach: not sure, crimsun did a lot of my merges
* Kyral also needs to look for people to support him, lol
<Kyral> I didn't do any merges though
* Kyral shrugs
<Kyral> Most of my work is Forums based anyway
<LaserJock> dholbach: I work quite a bit with bddebian on breezy but he doesn't seem to be around much anymore
* dholbach nods sadly
<LaserJock> dholbach: could you look at my wiki page and see if it looks like I have enough? wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha
<dholbach> i think for membership it should :)
<trevilor> hi guys
<LaserJock> dholbach: ok good, I'm a little concerned about getting people to vouch for me though
<lucas> dholbach: let's suppose there's a bug in a ruby package in breezy.
<lucas> what are the options to fix it ?
<ogra> file a bug, attach a patch, find a motu to upload it ...
<dholbach> lucas: as ogra said :)
<lucas> well, the bug is fixed in debian's version of the package
<ogra> ... become a motu yourself and fix it directly the next time ;)
<dholbach> lucas: then we do a merge
<lucas> yes, but would it be fixed in breezy then ?
<lucas> (I'm concerned about breezy, not dapper)
<dholbach> we only get very tiny and safe fixes into the stable distribution
<ogra> you could ask for a backport
<lucas> ok
<dholbach> yeah, ubuntu-backports might be worth a try
<ogra> if thats doable without heavy bootstrapping stuff ec
<ogra> *etc
<LaserJock> backports is only good if it just a rebuild
<lucas>  <dholbach> we only get very tiny and safe fixes into the stable distribution => which archive is used for that ? directly breezy ?
<lucas> (there's no breezy-updates)
<dholbach> same archive, different Packages.gz
<dholbach> so you get it thorugh breezy-{updates,security,backports} rather than breezy
<lucas> mmh
<lucas> oh I thought there was no breezy-updates for universe
<dholbach> it is for universe/multiverse/...
<lucas> yup saw that
<\sh> ok....sleeping now...good night...tomorrow i have to be again at 5 utc in the office :(
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<LaserJock> dholbach: I see you've been cleaning the wiki
<dholbach> only a bit
<dholbach> hi Tonio_
<Tonio_> hi dholbach
<Tonio_> fine ?
<dholbach> yeah, only a bit tired and my back aches, apart from that fine - how are you?
<LaserJock> dholbach: I have a list on MOTU/DocTodo ;-)
* dholbach looks
<Tonio_> dholbach: not very good.... personal problems at the moment
<Tonio_> dholbach: this is the reason i'm not present a lot...
<dholbach> LaserJock: looks good
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: There is a lot of work that can be done though. I wish I had more time to work on it :(
<dholbach> that's a great start, we should find people agreeing to work on this
<dholbach>  if we could get this more recent, structure it better, that'd be great
<LaserJock> dholbach: what I wanted to do is have a section that has the structure of the MOTU wiki pages kind of like what is there now
<LaserJock> dholbach: and then at the top have individual pages with what work needs to be done on them
<dholbach> that sounds cool
<LaserJock> dholbach: I am going to do that today
<dholbach> and i hope we'll have a "directory structure" soon too
<dholbach> but on that we should agree as a team
<LaserJock> dholbach: btw, I also got Unfgiven's packaging guide on the doc-team repo. It is at doc.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> yeah, cool
<siretart> re from the pub
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> good idea
<dholbach> ;)
<LaserJock> lucas: I have a question about your scripts in motu-tools
<lucas> yes ?
<LaserJock> If I want to get the complete information do I need to get the list of source packages of interest from both debian and ubuntu?
<LaserJock> lucas: I guess I'm wondering about the list that I am filtering with
<lucas> LaserJock: are you using motu-tools or motutools ? :)
<LaserJock> lucas: right now I'm using motu-tools
<lucas> you should look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTools , which are more documented
<lucas> and there's a step-by-step example too
<siretart> holy sh..
<LaserJock> lucas: ok but in the example "mts depends --reverse libruby1.8 > binpkg" might give you a different package list depending on if you are on debian or ubuntu
<siretart> have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/monotone/. monotone has 5mb orig.tar.gz, 100k diff.gz, but monotone_ubuntu.debdiff is 10MB!
<lucas> LaserJock: true.
<lucas> that's in the TODO list in scripts/depends.bash
<lucas> the problem is, I'm using apt-rdepends to get the reverse deps
<lucas> and apt-rdepends is broken in several ways
<siretart> better use grep-dctrl for that
<lucas> siretart: difficult. you have to handle stuff like Provides, Virtual packages, etc
<lucas> it's not just a grep ;)
<LaserJock> lucas: for what I'm doing (packages by section) I'm still not sure if I need the debian packages, ubuntu packages, or both. I think probably both
<lucas> LaserJock: I'd like to have both too :-)
<lucas> LaserJock: do you know perl ?
<LaserJock> lucas: no just a little Python ;-)
<lucas> ok
<lucas> because apt-rdepends is written in perl
<lucas> and I don't really understand it ...
<LaserJock> lucas: but to be complete you still need to have the complete set of uniq packages for both Debian & Ubuntu for this to work right, right?
<lucas> yup
<LaserJock> ok, I just wanted to get that clarified
<crimsun> siretart: monotone can be synced from Sid
<crimsun> siretart: the changes in -ubuntu are trivial and have already been applied in Sid
<siretart> crimsun: ah, sounds great.
<siretart> crimsun: could you handle that then, please?
<crimsun> siretart: sure
<lucas> the package list you currently get is for ubuntu. there might be some packages in debian which would qualify but aren't listed.
<LaserJock> lucas: yeah, I can get either for the sections and I ran both debian and ubuntu lists through you scripts and the debian list worked better
<LaserJock> because it is longer
<siretart> lucas: you could make your script not use the system configuration of apt but a user supplied config
<lucas> apt-rdepends doesn't support that anyway
<siretart> lucas: this would make it possible to use your tools in a breezy system producong lists frofrfor dapper
<lucas> LaserJock: but you are interested in getting packages for a section ? or using deps ?
<LaserJock> lucas: packages for a section
<lucas> mmh, then "mts depends" is not what you want
<LaserJock> lucas: I know, I wrote my own python script to get packages by section
<lucas> mmh, could you branch from http://ox.blop.info/bazaar/motutools ?
<lucas> "mts update" retrieves Packages and Sources files for Debian unstable and Ubuntu dapper
<lucas> in ~/.motutools/
<lucas> so you could parse those files instead
<LaserJock> lucas: but your getting your package list from the current user distro so isn't that a potential problem
<herve> hell
<herve> +o...
<lucas> I'm not.
<lucas> for "mts depends", I call apt-rdepends
<lucas> apt-rdepends reads /etc/apt/sources.list, which sucks, because you can't use debian's Packages instead.
<LaserJock> that's what I'm saying
<lucas> but you could write "mts section" and read ~/.motutools/debian_Packages
<lucas> "mts update" downloads from Debian & Ubuntu mirrors
<LaserJock> so far in my script I get everything from the Source.gz files downloaded from the mirros
<lucas> ok, so it should be very easy to use ~/.motutools/debian_Sources instead
<lucas> (or ubuntu_Sources)
<LaserJock> right, I need to get some polish on it and then I will see about getting into mts. Right now its not ready though
<lucas> ok
<Kyral> can I motion for libxmms-perl to be renamed to xmms-perl?
<lucas> Kyral: I'm curious: what's the rationale behind the renaming ?
<Kyral> because the error msgs regarding missing it always reference by "XMMS:Perl"
<Kyral> and if you apt-cache for it as that it doesn't come up
<crimsun> please read Debian's perl policy.
<Kyral> I should have known there was a policy
<Kyral> lol
* Kyral shrugs
<lucas> Kyral: you could patch debian/control to add XMMS::perl swhere in the description
<Kyral> Yah I think I should :D
<ajmitch> morning
<Kyral> But who would I ping for it
<ogra> Kyral, the DD
<Kyral> Stephen Frost it seems
<ogra> mail him
<ogra> or submit a bug with a fix ...
<Kyral> Yah I like the bug route :D
<Kyral> for some stupid reason I get all anx about emailing people out of the blue or somethin' :D
<Mithrandir> if the module is called XMMS::perl, then the package should actually be called libxmms-perl-perl according to policy.
<Kyral> lol
<Kyral> Actually there is something I've been meaning to ask...
<Kyral> nm I just answered it myself lol
<Kyral> wait a sec....when is the next CC meeting again? the 12th?
<ajmitch> 06 Dec 14:00 UTC:
<Kyral> oh wow....whew for a second I thought it was the 12. I have a final on that day lol
<LaserJock> Kyral: seriously, you need a day timer or a pda or something ;-)
<Kyral> I know :P
<Kyral> Its supposed to be Evolution
<Kyral> but I keep forgetting to put things in lol
<Kyral> I should use my Launchpad Calandar :D
<Kyral> Its not like I am using it now :D
<Kyral> Now you people can stalk me lol :P
<slomo_> crimsun: thanks for getting my merges done ;P
<ajmitch> yay, massive sync processing by elmo
<Kyral> horray!
<Kyral> the command to start eterm is eterm right?
<crimsun> Eterm I thought
<Kyral> .....damn case-sensitivity
<LaserJock> Kyral: alright, I added myself to the agenda for the next CC meeting. If you can make it great, if not I will try to make it to your CC meeting.
<Kyral> kk
<ajmitch> ah, LaserJock is brave enough to run the gauntlet
<LaserJock> ajmitch: well, I wasn't in a big hurry but the doc-team needs me to be a member for svn access
<Kyral> I've been ready :D
<ajmitch> Kyral: what contributions do you have to show over a length of time?
<ajmitch> hm
<LaserJock> lol, I think his is counting on his ubuntuforums work. He has over 2000 posts if I remember right
<ajmitch> that might help, depending on what they look for
<LaserJock> yeah, I tend to be quite conservative about these things, but the doc-team pushed me into it ;-)
<azeem> I am sure they will be glad to review them all ;)
<LaserJock> azeem: lol
* ajmitch imagines mako sitting down & reviewing every forum post
* StevenK waves, bleary-eyed.
<ajmitch> morning StevenK
<ajmitch> up early this morning :)
<StevenK> Just dropped my wife at the station.
<StevenK> No point going back to bed, if my alarm is going to wake me up in 10 minutes. :-/
<ajmitch> sad to say I woke up at 7am
<ajmitch> considering I got to sleep about 2
<StevenK> Yeah ...
<LaserJock> yeah, the CC meeting is going to be at 0600 local time so I hope I won't sound stupid
<crimsun> yeah, 9am for me
<dholbach> ajmitch: your network was quite unwell :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I know, I woke up this morning to see a few disconnections
<ajmitch> rather strange
<StevenK> That's the song for me at the moment.
<StevenK> Megadeth - Wake Up Dead
* herve writing his letter to santa claus ;-)
<Kyral> lol
<StevenK> LaserJock: The coming CC meeting is 0100 local for me. Part of the reason I'm skipping it.
<Kyral> The coming CC meeting is at 1100 for me
<LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, although I think I could do  0100 better than 0600
<Nafallo> herve: don't he got e-mail yet? :-)
<herve> it seems so, I'm writing one!
<LaserJock> should have an RSS feed
<Kyral> lol
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<herve> actually, it's rather a fifo list
<Kyral> lol
* StevenK waits for the Codral to kick in.
<StevenK> Whee, another package is in the archive.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: put yourself forward for the members launchpad team?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ubuntumembers yes
<ajmitch> ok
<LaserJock> I also put my name on the agenda. I hope that is the right process
<Kyral> hmm
<Kyral> I shall try lol I may be late
<ajmitch> hi \sh
<Kyral> secretly running irssi in the middle of class
<\sh> 3h of sleep and I woke up again..
<Kyral> go back to bed
<dholbach> drink something and go back to bed
<ajmitch> \sh: ouch, you're worse than me (5 hours)
<dholbach> (non-alcoholic :))
<\sh> dholbach: i'll check the syncs now :)
<ajmitch> hm, so many apps to rebuild for c++ evils
<dholbach> ts..........
<ajmitch> I wonder who's handling inkscape
<ajmitch> which was probably waiting on gtkmm
<StevenK> Awwwww.
<dholbach> go ahead
<dholbach> should be fine now
<StevenK> libclanlib-dev is still broken.
<dholbach> gtkmm2.4 is done
<ajmitch> StevenK: surely not? what's the problem?
<StevenK> libclanlib-dev: Depends: libclan2c2a-vorbis but it is not installable
<ajmitch> sigh
<StevenK> Package libclan2c2a-vorbis is not available, but is referred to by another package.
<ajmitch> libclan2c2-vorbis didn't get renamed
<ajmitch> and I missed it
<ajmitch> that'll teach me
<StevenK> Well, the only way to test this is stuff the binaries on a private repository and then point apt-get at it.
<StevenK> s/\(this\) is/\1/
<ajmitch> and I was in a rush at 1:30 this morning :)
* Kyral goes to bounce in the Forums
<dholbach> good night, everybody
<LaserJock> good night dholbach
<herve> siretart, ping
<\sh> hmmm...If I say in debian/control: Build-Depends: foo [i386]  means please use this build-dep only on i386?
<Mithrandir> yes
<\sh> thx I only wanted to be sure
<\sh> so...if I change firebird2-dev [i386]  the resulting binary package needs only to be there in Architecture: 386
<\sh> i386 even
<Mithrandir> correct
<\sh> well..but the buildd is not correct..
<\sh> because amd64 is explicit mentioned in firebird2
<sivang> night all
<ajmitch> night
<LaserJock> guys, do you think that a packaging guide would be useful to have in a .deb?
<ajmitch> like intro developer docs?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: actually yes, the doc-team is wondering if we want to include it in their package
<herve> good night
<ajmitch> you have seen the intro developer docs, right?
* ajmitch is just wondering how your one is different
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that is what it is. I have added it to the doc-team repo and it can be found at doc.ubuntu.com
<\sh> ogra: can it be that i'm totally clueless, or this guy has no clue about the flow of his software?
<ogra> who ?
<\sh> ogra: mike hearn
<ogra> he is Mr. autopackage iirc
* ajmitch shudders
<ogra> might tell something
<\sh> ogra: and one of the wine upstreams?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> he is
<\sh> oh my god
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the intro docs that ankur did were meant to be in breezy
<\sh> please remove wine from the archive,
<LaserJock> ajmitch: right, well now they are going to be in dapper
<ajmitch> \sh: ok, we'll forward all requests for it to you ;)
<LaserJock> well since introdeveloperdocs was being packaged can I assume that it would be ok to package it now?
<ajmitch> go ahead
<\sh> ajmitch: really...thinking about his attitude and this thoughts,it should be the best to include an empty package with only one shell script inside: wine and as output: upstream likes you to compile his source by yourself...because he doesn't trust anyone else...because we are clueless
<Nafallo> \sh++
<ajmitch> go go gentoo!
<\sh> ajmitch: even gentoo is evil
<\sh> ajmitch: they're patching wine ,)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> LFS all the way
* ajmitch needs access to his desktop
<ajmitch> I need to be able to test stuff
<ajmitch> before I do more broken uploads ;)
<ajmitch> I think we're going for a record with clanlib to get it working properly
<ajmitch> siretart: more fluidsynth changes to make :)
* ajmitch needs to fix it for scummvm - libreadline4-dev has been removed
<ajmitch> and there's a new debian revision
<ajmitch> yay
<siretart> ajmitch: huh?
<ajmitch> siretart: your 'No changes left to debian' in the changelog :)
<ajmitch> now we have to add changes again
* siretart checks
<ajmitch> hm, perhaps I can get away with a sync
<ajmitch> Depends: libfluidsynth1 (= 1.0.6-3ubuntu2), libreadline4-dev, libncurses5-dev
<siretart> ajmitch: ah. Now I see.
<siretart> ajmitch: if there was a newer debian version, I would have requested a sync
<ajmitch> there is now
<siretart> ajmitch: but afair, there wasn't that time
<siretart> okay. then request a sync :)
<ajmitch> so a rebuild should get the right readline dep
* ajmitch will once I test :)
<ajmitch> unless you'd like to do so now
<siretart> jupp
* ajmitch waits for pbuilder
<\sh> ogra: a Q is missing in this nice and shiny font?
<ogra> heh, yupp
<\sh_away> ogra: but this is normal...Q has to be missing, because Q comes and goes whenever it wants. Q is the uber Race
<ajmitch> ok, fluidsynth build from debian looks like it works
<Seveas> \sh, roflol
<Seveas> the font looks really nice though
<ajmitch> Seveas: you did revelation on REVU, right?
<Seveas> ajmitch, yes
<LaserJock> do you guys rember what the Hoary pre release cd's were called? Was it array?
<ajmitch> well 0.4.5-2 source is in dapper
<Seveas> and gnome-vfs-fuse which should be nuked immediately
<ajmitch> but ftbfs due to python2.3 deps
<ajmitch> I've fixed it locally
<ajmitch> Seveas: ok, I'll rm gnome-vfs-fuse then
<Seveas> ajmitch, ah, missed that one in dapper
<ajmitch> it was synced after your revu upload
<Seveas> right
<ajmitch> do you want the honour of fixing revelation or shall I just upload? :)
<Seveas> ah well, nuke that one too then :)
<ajmitch> k :)
<Seveas> I'll upload gnome-vfs-fuse again when I completely rewrote it
<ajmitch> heh
<Seveas> really - don't even LOOK at it
<ajmitch> I didn't
<ajmitch> I just hit archive
<Seveas> btw, I'll have ultimatestunts finished too in a few days
<ajmitch> we've got a long list of stuff on REVU to review & get in
<ajmitch> ok
<Seveas> and libsexy :)
<tseng> sigh, libsexy
<ajmitch> we need more MOTUs reviewing :)
<Seveas> tseng, ?
<tseng> "what is an even dumber name than libegg?"
<Seveas> hehe
<\sh> tseng: libchicken
<lucas> ajmitch: why don't you allow reviews from contributors ?
<LaserJock> lucas: cause they don't count, just kidding ;-)
<ajmitch> lucas: excuse me?
<lucas> if you want more reviews of REVU stuff, you could let contributors post comments on uploads
<ajmitch> I thought contibutors could, actually
<LaserJock> they just can't vote
<lucas> they can only post comments on their own uploads
<lucas> huh ?
<lucas> Date	Reviewer	Comment 	Advocating	Actions
<lucas> Sorry, Commenting for contributors only on their own uploads
<LaserJock> It still takes MOTUs to advocate so I don't know if it would speed along the proccess
<lucas> well it would allow contributors to pick up mistakes
<lucas> so the package would improve faster
<LaserJock> perhaps, unless they are wrong ;-)
<ajmitch> lucas: so, it might be changed
<ajmitch> but I haven't hacked on revu1 :)
<lucas> LaserJock: I was thinking about your "get packages for section X" script
<LaserJock> lucas: yeah?
<lucas> I don't think you need python for it. grep-dctrl should be enough
<LaserJock> lucas: your right but I was trying to eliminate the need for using too many programs
<lucas> well, this package is for developers
<LaserJock> lucas: right now I could do it on windows if I wanted to
#ubuntu-motu 2005-12-04
<lucas> they probably already have grep-dctrl installed ;)
<LaserJock> lucas: yes, for you it would be great and I would probably do that. I don't really know much of anything about bash scripting so I need to learn before I start doing that
<lifeless> gahr
<lifeless> python is much nicer than bash
<lucas> ok
<LaserJock> lucas: it's a good idea though. I did think about that somewhere along the line.
<lucas> going to bed
<lucas> gnight
<LaserJock> cya
<sistpoty> hi folks
<LaserJock> hi sistpoty
<\sh> lifeless: python is different from bash...
<\sh> useradd -u 1000 -g users -d /home/shermann -s /bin/python
<\sh> -m shermann ,)
<eruin> I've promised myself never again to follow examples set by crazy germans
<\sh> lol
<eruin> ;)
<\sh> eruin: don't tell me now, that u c'n'ped it
<eruin> the \sh part would have been nice to add
<eruin> I should get myself a third computer where I could test all evil commands people paste across the net
<eruin> starting with rm -rf /
<eruin> now for the more immediate necessity, testing gfxboot
<eruin> this noname laptop seems to take anything I can throw at it (including coffee and beer)
<\sh> eruin: uh..nice laptop then :)
<\sh> anyway time to sleep...
<\sh> cu later today
<sistpoty> gn8 \sh_away
<lifeless> \sh_away: nice troll
<lifeless> but in fact python makes a nicer shell too ;)
* ajmitch__ missed all the fun :(
<lifeless> 10:16 < \sh> lifeless: python is different from bash...
<lifeless> 10:18 < \sh> useradd -u 1000 -g users -d /home/shermann -s /bin/python
<lifeless> 10:18 < \sh> -m shermann ,)
<lifeless> was the core
<ajmitch> hehe
<tseng> ruby ./script/console would be a nice "shell" if it would save history between sessions
<LaserJock> is there any reason why a command excecuted from a makefile should take a lot longer than when done from the command line?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: each command in a makefile is executed in a separate shell, but that should be the only difference
<LaserJock> sistpoty: I timed using make and it was ~ 60s but when excecuted in a shell it was ~ 3s
<sistpoty> LaserJock: that's strange... is it a complicated makefile? (rules need to be evaluated at first)
<LaserJock> it's like it is taking forever to start. not that it is slower overall
<LaserJock> sistpoty: you don't have a checkout of the docteam repo handy do you?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: or perhaps a difference in the shell... afaik make uses /bin/sh as shell
<sistpoty> LaserJock: no, i don't... sorry
<sistpoty> LaserJock: where's the repo located?
<LaserJock> svn checkout https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk ubuntu-doc
* sistpoty checks out
<LaserJock> or it might be faster to just go to https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/ubuntu/Makefile
<LaserJock> if you want to look at it
<sistpoty> LaserJock: i'm already doing a checkout... I'll just wait until it's there ;)
<LaserJock> sistpoty: sorry, I kinda forgot how big it is
<sistpoty> LaserJock: how big is it? 10-100Mb or even bigger?
<sistpoty> LaserJock: ok, checkout done :)
<LaserJock> its 170MB on my comp
<sistpoty> same here
<sistpoty> which makefile should i look at?
<LaserJock> ubunt-doc/ubuntu/makefile
<LaserJock> the problem is when I do make server
* sistpoty makes server
<ajmitch> hey Arrogance
<Arrogance> hi aj
* kjcole got bored pestering bzr and launchpad folks. ;-) and now has questions for MOTU's
<tseng> were you planning on asking it?
<kjcole> Actually, no questions, yet, as I'm in the process of RTFW (reading the fine wiki's)... But I think I have something to submit.  (Will read more before pestering.)
<tseng> ok :)
<kjcole> OK, I've read everything (in 30 seconds) and am now an expert. ;-)  My first question: Regarding "reviewing this package for known security vulnerabilities and providing patches for all of them" (as the candidates page states):
<kjcole> If I'm merely taking a package from Debian, and beating it up til it works in Ubuntu, has it already been "cleared" by Debian folks?  Cuz I sure don't know how to clear it.
<ajmitch> taking a package from debian is not really submitting anything new
<ajmitch> which package, btw?
<crimsun> if it has been accepted into Debian, that's not usually a problem, but then the question begs to be asked why it's not already in Ubuntu. There are few of those.
<kjcole> ajmitch: BOINC.  The package had all sorts of dependencies that appeared to be met other ways in Ubuntu, so I grabbed the source, and tweaked the dependencies til Ubuntu was happy with it.
<kjcole> (Strangely enough, I see boinc monitoring packages in Ubuntu -- maybe in universe -- but no boinc itself.)
<sistpoty> kjcole: I can't find boinc in unstable
<kjcole> sistpoty: http://wiki.debian.org/BOINC
<sistpoty> kjcole: ah... so it's no official package (probably because something in it is non-free)
<sistpoty> kjcole: maybe you could check what non-free parts it contains and whether it's safe for ubuntu to distribute this
<kjcole> sistpoty: Ah.  I guess I didn't look deep enough then.  So is there a MOTM  team/channel/whatever? ;-)
<sistpoty> kjcole: MOTM?
<kjcole> Masters of the Multiverse. ;-)
<ajmitch> we have that task
<sistpoty> he... no, this is done here as well ;)
<kjcole> FYI in case some don't know: BOINC is seti@home-NG (as well as other @home efforts) out of UC Berkeley.
<sistpoty> kjcole: but it still might be worth to investigate why this is non-free...
<sistpoty> kjcole: and once you have a package, you can upload this to revu... and maybe add comments that it should go to multiverse
<kjcole> (Or more specifically BOINC = Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing)
<kjcole> sistpoty: OK, will try to do that.
<kjcole> I know early on, the SETI people were concerned about releasing source, as they didn't want faked or erroneous data being reported back to them, and felt that some level of control over the source guaranteed good data coming back from client machines... That may still be the case.
<sistpoty> kjcole: but i guess boinc comes with sources?
<kjcole> sistpoty: It appeared to, since blindly following the directions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatePackageFromSourcePackage worked after I changed dependencies a bit.
<kjcole> sistpoty: (I'm an RPM guy, and so a lot of the deb stuff is new to me.)
<magnon> hello ogra!
<kjcole> Hi ogra.  Elkner's right: You don't sleep.
<sistpoty> kjcole: actually i meant that boinc is distributed not as a binary, but rather as sources
<ogra> kjcole, that just looks like ;)
<ogra> hi magnon
<ajmitch> ogra & sleep are incompatible ;)
<kjcole> sistpoty: I'd have to go back and pay attention, but it was compiling something when I did that.  So, yeah, I think I've got sources for it all.
<sistpoty> kjcole: that's good :)
<magnon> grr. hope I get my laptop back soon
<kjcole> Although I cannot find a specific license document, BOINC claims to be open source: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/source_code.php and the bottom of the web pages say they're released under the GNU FDL
<kjcole> Found it: It's released under the GNU Lesser GPL: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/legal.html
<sistpoty> kjcole: just read it... imo it should be fine to go into universe even
<sistpoty> but /me is no legal expert ;)
<kjcole> sistpoty: Which brings me back to my original question: I have no idea how secure or insecure it may be...  (I'm assuming it's fairly secure, but they say that "assume" makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"...)
<sistpoty> kjcole: does it allow incoming connections?
<ogra> its in fact the new setiathome client
<sistpoty> ogra: so maybe you have some better clue then ;)
<ogra> you can get it at setiathome too afaik
<ogra> its ages ago that i participated in seti :)
<ogra> (when i had to care for machines where it was worth to donate the idle power ;) )
<kjcole> ogra: Yeah, I was just telling folks here, I got it from http://wiki.debian.org/BOINC and tweaked the dependencies til Ubuntu stopped complaining.
<kjcole> ogra: I was at the original announcement of the alpha version of seti@home: I'm registered user #45 (IIRC)/
<ogra> its OSS and freely licensed afaik ...
<ogra> so you should be able to just package it for universe ...
<ajmitch> now we contribute our idle cycles to pbuilder ;)
<ogra> hehe
<kjcole> sistpoty: I think it just requests packets of data, processes them and sends them out again, and sends another request.  So, I don't think it allows incoming connections.
<sistpoty> kjcole: i guess it's pretty safe then. at least the user needs to start the client manually
<sistpoty> (i guess)
<ogra> see kboincspy :)
* ogra sees there is a gnome app missing apparently :)
<kjcole> ogra: I'm very new to deb's (I'm an rpm guy.) I just followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatePackageFromSourcePackage
<kjcole> ogra: It's running on my breezy system, yea even as we chat.
<ogra> heh, thats wikipage is *very* boiled down
<kjcole> ogra: That's where I started too.  I was surprised to see the k-boinc-monitoring stuff but no boinc to go with it.
<ogra> i wonder why its not in debian ... its already pretty old ...
<kjcole> ogra: I like boiled down, pre-chewed, pre-digested instructions.  They go through my system easier.
<ogra> its good for first steps indeed ... but making real packages involves a lot more
<ogra> but good to get the foot into the door
<kjcole> ogra: But, is there a better set of instructions that aren't too steep for a beginner? Or is there someone I can hand off what I've done so far to?
<ogra> ajmitch, are the docs from unfrgiven uploaded finally ?
<ajmitch> ogra: laserjock was going to repackage a changed version
<ajmitch> which will live in the doc team repository
<ogra> yes, we had a guy who wrote a developer intro that was submitted to breezy to late to enter the archive
<ogra> kjcole, so you probably should poke laserjock and improve the docs as you use them ...
<kjcole> (I'm trying to learn my first RCS -- bzr, and Docbook. So, the more straightforward packaging instructions are, the better.  I *DO* sleep.)
<ogra> i never read them myself but heard they are very good
<kjcole> Ah.
<ajmitch> hey bmonty
* ajmitch chuckles at \sh_away's mail to ubuntu-devel
<crimsun> well put even if tongue-in-cheek
* magnon reads
* magnon chuckles as well
<bmonty> hey ajmitch
* sistpoty is off to bed
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<zakame> hi
* ajmitch hates his dsl setup
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what's wrong?
<ajmitch> it's dead :)
<ajmitch> and I need to wander home & kick the box
<ajmitch> reload the drivers, reload the firmware, and it runs again
<ajmitch> crappy usb dsl modem
<LaserJock> bummer
<ajmitch> it doesn't happen often, usually
<ajmitch> but somehow it's happened at least twice today
<dholbach> good morning
<crimsun> re daniel
<dholbach> hey daniel :)
<LaserJock> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock - you were not talking about THIS tuesday, were you?
<LaserJock> no, is it Tuesday there? It's still Monday here ;-)
<dholbach> haha :)
<ajmitch_> hi
<dholbach> i'm in germany, so it's 07:28 and already tuesday
<ajmitch_> and 7:28 here
<ajmitch_> but pm
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what day?
<ajmitch_> tuesday of course
<LaserJock> wow, that's crazy
<dholbach> sudo apt-get install gworldclock
<dholbach> ;)
<ajmitch_> LaserJock: you're just behind :)
<LaserJock> dang it, and I thought I was just behind because I was slow
<ajmitch_> heh
<LaserJock> dholbach: mdke added the packaging guide to the .deb for ubuntu-docs
<dholbach> yeah, he told me
<dholbach> that's brilliant (if we can keep it up to date with the doc team)
<LaserJock> I really would like to figure out what is needed and really make something good out of it
<ajmitch_> sounds like jdub is having yet more touring fun
<LaserJock> Right now I kinda feel like it is just a bit from the New Maintainer Guide and some pbuilder wiki thrown together
<LaserJock> I was wondering if it would be useful to use a real life example for the packaging guide. Maybe a package that is relatively simple and stable
<dholbach> yeah, sure
<dholbach> i had a brief look at the packaging guide and thought there were quite some improvements possible
<dholbach> where it could be easier
<dholbach> and more straight forward
<LaserJock> I would like to see a real quick overview (kinda like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatePackageFromSourcePackage) and then move into the details with a example package
<LaserJock> but the example package would really have to work. I would hate to have people to start reporting bugs on a faulty example
<LaserJock> I would also like to see a "best practices" section about things like cdbs, build-deps, versioning, patching, merging (maybe), REVU
<LaserJock> Seems like there is really a lot that could be included, but in a sequential and gentle way
<dholbach> we started PackagingTips and ReviewingTips
<dholbach> but that's only a small start
<LaserJock> yeah, I would like to maybe have those as our "work in progress" pages and the Packaging Guide have the stuff that seem stable and mostly agreed upon
<LaserJock> because I realize that there are many different ways to approach packaging
<dholbach> absolutely
<dholbach> that sounds good
<LaserJock> I would also like to include a troubleshooting section that would have some of the most common mistakes. I'm not sure if that is practical but it might help to increase the quality of the packages going into REVU and also reduce the number of reviews by MOTUs that need to be done before a package is done
<dholbach> sounds good
<dholbach> LaserJock: you must have given this long thinking :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: some anyway. I really seem to like this documenting for MOTU stuff. I haven't don a lot yet but I'm trying to wrap my brain around what really needs to be done
<LaserJock> wikis sometimes give a "thrown together" appearance that can make it confusing for somebody not used to it.
<LaserJock> but they are great for getting the ideas down
<dholbach> yeah
<LaserJock> anyway, I hope once I am a member and get doc-team commit access that I will be able to get a lot more done
<dholbach> that should also help you becoming a motu and get some stuff done as well ;)
<dholbach> i'm very happy you're working on this
<LaserJock> well, I'm happy that I can contribute and give something back to the community
<LaserJock> I've been a Linux "user" far too long
<dholbach> too long? :)
<dholbach> come on... it's good you're here :)
<LaserJock> well, I guess it's only been 4 years or so. I used Gentoo for a long time. But I never found a community I wanted to contribute to before Ubuntu
<viviersf> hmmm this is weird
<viviersf> i added a new user
<viviersf> but PS1 is stuffed
<viviersf> doesnt get read :/
<LaserJock> ok, I gotta get to bed before its Tuesday. It's been great talking to you dholbach. You got me fired up about the packaging guide. Now I just need to do it ;-)
<dholbach> cool :)
* dholbach hugs LaserJock 
<dholbach> good night :)
* LaserJock hugs dholbach back
<sivang> GOod Morning
<ajmitch_> yay for filterdiff
<ajmitch_> very useful for splitting out inline patches
<zakame> hello
<ajmitch_> hi
<ajmitch_> morning \sh
* ajmitch_ prepares another monster debian upload
<zakame> hi \sh
<ajmitch_> 20MB source + 20MB of debs
<ajmitch_> a recipe for great pain
<zakame> hm, is gccmakedep deprecated? I couldn't find it anywhere in dapper's xutils
<ajmitch_> \sh: good mail to ubuntu-devel :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: it was my last to this thread...I think I said everything, and seeing that others agree with me...this is good
<zakame> \sh: just read, nice one indeed :)
<zakame> ooh, so one has to set DEPEND="gcc -M" to get mas building...
<\sh> ajmitch_: I mean the attitude of this mike guy is really annoying...
<Mithrandir> \sh: I think it's hilarious that he thinks a 15k patch is big.
<zakame> hihi
<\sh> A desktop like GNOME needs to be
<\sh> integrated with the kernel
<\sh> what?
<\sh> I thought i'm clueless
<zakame> grrrr
<\sh> but actually...I have to ask benc if he's planning a kernel with gnome integrated...
* dholbach takes away \sh 's crack pipe
<\sh> dholbach: it wasn't my idea...mike wrote it...that gnome has to be integrated with the kernel
* dholbach collects a big bunch of crack pipes today :)
<Treenaks> \sh: mike?
<\sh> mike hearn
<Treenaks> dholbach: yeah, stop using those ;)
<dholbach> Treenaks: ok :)
<dholbach> you made me see sense
<ajmitch_> \sh: you don't think that gnome integrated into the kernel is good?
<ajmitch_> think of the speed increase! :)
<\sh> ajmitch_: well if this ever happens, we have to fork the kernel to kkernel
<ajmitch_> Gnubuntu, with the hurd ;)
<raphink> lol
<raphink> kdm upgrade -> brb ;)
<ajmitch_> hm, I wonder what other syncs I need to request
* ajmitch_ will work it out tomorrow
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Woot, ubuntu5 works great.
<ajmitch_> StevenK: ubuntu1 should have worked great :)
* StevenK grins.
<StevenK> ajmitch_: You going to be around? If pingus builds, I'll get you to request a sync.
<ajmitch_> I'm around
* ajmitch_ has dinner cooking, so has to stay awake for at least a bit longer ;)
<StevenK> Ditto.
<StevenK> My wife has just thrown mince for tacos into the wok.
<ajmitch_> nice
<StevenK> Are you IRC'ing from the kitchen? :-)
<ajmitch_> nah
<ajmitch_> food is in the oven, it won't burn for at least a bit longer :)
* ajmitch_ needs to get a new laptop to use IRC from the kitchen again
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> My wife would kill me if she saw me IRC'ing from the kitchen.
* sivang mmmms at the thought of tacos...
<jsgotangco> hey ajmitch_ long time no see
* StevenK wonders if pingus uses GL.
<StevenK> Evidently not, since the last buildd log says the same thing about disabling clanGL.
<StevenK> Oh, so unfair.
<StevenK> pingus compiles, and fails the final link.
<ajmitch_> hey jsgotangco
<ajmitch_> what's up?
<ajmitch_> enjoying life in .au now?
<ajmitch_> yay, someone !\sh  who's taken over planet ubuntu
<jsgotangco> haha
<\sh> hehe
<ajmitch_> hey koke
<koke> hi :)
<ajmitch_> what's up?
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Right, pingus fails in the final link, with lots of undefined references to ogg and vorbis symbols.
* sivang wonders if anybody has taken on hdapplet
<ajmitch_> StevenK: sounds a bit suspect
<koke> DB work waiting for me
<ajmitch_> koke: sounds like great fun :)
<koke> ajmitch_: yeah, migrating 6 different MySQL DBs to a postgresql one and keep them synced
<koke> lots of fun :)
<ajmitch_> eeevil
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Yes, but undefined references and symbols while linked was never my strong point.
<ajmitch_> I suspect I'll need to give it a build & look at the log
* ajmitch_ is waiting for the inkscape build to finish
<StevenK> I can mail you the command and output
<ajmitch_> dholbach: when do you think is a good time to have another MOTU meeting?
<ajmitch_> I don't recall us deciding on a time at the UBZ meetup
<ajmitch_> oh good, inkscape build just finished
* StevenK builds iterm again.
* ajmitch_ needs a new hardware-applet build, hopefully someone has merged/built it
<StevenK> ajmitch_: You'll build pingus if you can stay awake?
<ajmitch_> sure
* StevenK buggers off for more MASH
* ajmitch_ starts a couple of builds
<viviersf> does any1 multiboot with windows
<jtan325> i do
<viviersf> and can email me your menu.list plz
<viviersf> i need to see something in it
<viviersf> ah
<viviersf> will you plz ?
<Mithrandir> title Windows XP
<Mithrandir> root (hd0,2)
<Mithrandir> chainloader +1
<Mithrandir> is what I have
<jtan325> http://pastebin.com/442053
<viviersf> yes
<viviersf> but i need full menu.list Mithrandir
<viviersf> dont want the windows stuff to disapear on grub-update
<jtan325> i just pasted it
<jtan325> viviersf,
<viviersf> thx jabra_
<viviersf> * jtan325
<viviersf> just talking to Mithrandir
<Mithrandir> viviersf: add it after ### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
<Mithrandir> or before
* godzero tries to setup pbuild chroot... wonders if breezy was a good idea. Should I have set it up for dapper... can I set up 2 chroots?
<ajmitch_> godzero: yes & yes
<godzero> choked on cdrom again
<godzero> can I comment out cdrom?
<JanC> godzero: yes
<godzero> k, I'll give that a go
<JanC> cdrom is only needed is you install / update from a cd-rom archive
<viviersf> thx Mithrandir
<viviersf> just saw
<\sh> question...what should I do now, when I change the Makefile.am and have to dance the autotools dance. Put the changes directly into diff.gz or doing the dance inside the debian/rules configure target?
<\sh> (means during buildtime)
<godzero> ...ahhh...much better. Sucess? Looks like a good base.tgz
<godzero> great.. I got the bc built test to work
<ajmitch_> StevenK: do you have a debdiff for iterm from 0.5-5 ?
<ajmitch_> it might be easier to review
<\sh> lunch....bbl
<StevenK> ajmitch_: No, but I can make one.
<ajmitch_> would be nice so that I don't have to :)
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Heh, it's still 115k
<ajmitch_> ouch
<ajmitch_> why so large?
* ajmitch_ didn't think the ubuntu changes were that significant
<StevenK> The config.{sub,guess} files. Why they changed, I have no idea.
<ajmitch_> broken dh_make templates was often a cause
<StevenK> All you need is the changelog, control and rules.
<ajmitch_> they get copied in in the wrong rules target
<dholbach> new autotools-dev package
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Tell me what to fix, and I'll fix it.
<ajmitch_> clean: target copies in the config.sub & config.guess
<StevenK> Right. Kill that bit and rebuild?
<ajmitch_> iirc that can be done elsewhere, but I can't recall just what the magic is
<ajmitch_> \sh knows :)
<ajmitch_> you can try that
<StevenK> Ah hah. Do it in build
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Any news in terms of pingus?
<ajmitch_> it broke
<StevenK> I knew that. :-)
<ajmitch_> I'm guessing libclan*-vorbis isn't pulling in the libs properly
<StevenK> Right.
<ajmitch_> hm
<siretart> \sh: re: using autotools at buildtime
<ajmitch_> I see why
<StevenK> ubuntu6 time?
<ajmitch_> StevenK: I deserve another swift kick in the head
<siretart> \sh: this is a quite controvers discuessed issue. You get answers depending on whom you ask
<ajmitch_> libclan2c2-vorbis.install
<ajmitch_> problems there :)
<StevenK> Ahhh. :-)
<siretart> \sh: IMO: if the package uses dpatch (or similar), then do that in a dpatch. if no patchsystem is included, then do that at buildtime, to keep the debdiff to the debian package small
<siretart> \sh: but thats my opinion. it really depends on the package, too
<ajmitch_> StevenK: I'll really get it right one of these days
* StevenK grins.
<ajmitch_> \sh: do you know why that one wasn't renamed, and all the other clanlib packages were?
<StevenK> Muahaha, 3k debdiff
<ajmitch_> much better
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Shall I throw the new debdiff onto launchpad?
<ajmitch_> please do
<ajmitch_> I'll review against 0.5-5 source & upload
<StevenK> Excellent.
<StevenK> I just don't think I'm whitelisted still. :-P
<ajmitch_> you know who to harass :)
<StevenK> I've already harassed him once. elmo has more important things to do/worry about
<ajmitch_> yep
<ajmitch_> whitelisting is very minor really
<ajmitch_> you just need to get approval from the CC to get an ubuntu.com address
* StevenK nods.
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Done.
<ajmitch_> you've signed the code of conduct?
<StevenK> I did that like a week and a half ago
<ajmitch_> ok
<ajmitch_> ubuntu.com addresses don't work unless you signed
<StevenK> What I meant was I've uploaded the new debdiff to launchpad.
<StevenK> (The -s is for *small* :-)
<ajmitch_> yep :)
<StevenK> [22:22]  < liw> it's one thing if your upstream is irritating and clueless, and it's worse if he spends his time in his underwear in your home
* StevenK cackles.
<ajmitch_> haha
<ajmitch_> StevenK: trying to build now..
<StevenK> clanlib or iterm?
<ajmitch_> clanlib already built
<StevenK> Ahh.
<ajmitch_> building iterm in pbuilder
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch_> it drags in a few build depends
<StevenK> Yup. I have to hold myself back from fixing the plethora of warnings spat out.
<StevenK> And they're all silly.
<ajmitch_> they usually are
* StevenK usually compiles with -pedantic
<ajmitch_> oh I see what you mean about warnings
* StevenK nods.
<ajmitch_> my eyes glazed over seeing all those
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch_> iterm uploaded
<StevenK> Woo, thanks
<StevenK> clanlib has been too?
<ajmitch_> yeah, I think I'll try a pingus rebuild in the morning once the archive has a (finally) fixed clanlib :)
<ajmitch_> yes
<StevenK> Yeah.
<StevenK> I suspect it has a hope of working now. :-)
<ajmitch_> it had better
<StevenK> Or what, you'll kick its ass?
* StevenK smirks.
<ajmitch_> no, my ass will get kicked :)
* StevenK grins.
<ajmitch_> I wonder if f-spot cvs is usable enough to throw into dapper :)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: I found about 12.5k pornpics on my server. let's see how f-spot manage... ;-)
<ajmitch_> what a surprise
<Nafallo> hehe
<tseng_> yawn..
<ajmitch_> morning tseng_
<tseng_> hi
<tseng_> i need a new laptop battery
<slomo_> hi everybody
<tseng_> this one is lucky to last an hour now
<Nafallo> tseng_: you made me IRL-yawn! :-P
<ajmitch_> I need a new laptop
<Nafallo> hi btw :-)
<ajmitch_> hello slomo_
<Mithrandir> hi Nafallo
<Nafallo> morning Mithrandir :-)
* Nafallo tells f-spot to import 11978 pictures and watches the memory go away *
<ajmitch_> yeah it might take a couple of minutes
<StevenK> http://aigarius.blogspot.com/2005/11/do-you-want-to-hear-most-incredible.html
<StevenK> Fun with debugging f-spot
<ajmitch_> ah, gphoto issues :)
<ajmitch_> thankfully that doesn't occur when importing photos on disk
<ajmitch_> hi spacey
<spacey> hey
<spacey> zup
<ajmitch_> about to sleep
<ajmitch_> in fact, I think I'll do that now
<ajmitch_> night all
<Nafallo> hehe, nice blogpost :-)
<ogra> modprobe gnome
<ogra> oops, wrong window ....
<ogra> morning
<Nafallo> morning ogra :-)
<Nafallo> modprobe gnome? ;-)
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> a tribute to mike :)
<Nafallo> lol
<\sh> lol
<\sh> you guys are crazy
<\sh> anyway...coming from lunch...and now security meeting with mr. schnitzel
<\sh> bbl
<ogra> \sh, send my greetings
<Nafallo> food?
<ogra> nope, the security guy is called like this ;)
<Nafallo> why? :-)
<ogra> Nafallo, because Bjlevik is not that common in germany ?
<ogra> its his last name ;)
<Nafallo> hmm, oki :-P.
<Nafallo> so he's not only called, but also named schnitzel?
<ogra> nope, in fact he's called schnitzler ...
<Nafallo> I would probably have changed name at that point ;-)
<godzero> So, what does a motu wannabe do to help out?
<zakame> good evening
<StrikeForce> hi zakame
<zakame> hi ogra , StrikeForce :D
<StrikeForce> :)
<zakame> what's up?
<StrikeForce> not much
<StrikeForce> hoping someone will revu my packages that I've uploaded
<zakame> ooh
<StrikeForce> whats the steps in talking to someone who already provides deb's to their package but to get them to submit it to ubuntu?
<zakame> is this someone the same upstream developer, or someone else?
<StrikeForce> same upstream developer
<StrikeForce> zakame, http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/gnome-sshman/
<zakame> StrikeForce: ooh
<StrikeForce> theres been some requests for it on the forums and there really isn't any point in me making a deb package if the guy/girl does it already
<zakame> hm, you can ping upstream about that being included in ubuntu, and have it uploaded to revu so the motus can take a look at it...
<zakame> hi minghua :)
<minghua> hi zakame
<StrikeForce> yeah I will do
<zakame> can some motu please check malone 4765 5116 and 5118 debdiffs, thanks in advance and good night!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4765: eyed3: merge new debian version In: eyed3 (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/bugs/4765
<janimo> when the only change to a package compared to debian is to bump the epoch, do we still append ubuntu1 to the end or just the 1: epoch prefix?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> to indicate, we diverted, no?
<janimo> hmm indeed :) thanks
<janimo> and bumping the epoch is actually just adding a changelog entry ?
<dholbach> seems so :)
<janimo> it seems the rest is figured out by dpkg-source when building
<dholbach> dunno what else you have to change
<janimo> good,thanks
<janimo> btw do you know if elmo synced on request today? I saw him around
<dholbach> no idea, sorry
<dholbach> should be on the list then
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> good morning ;-)
<dholbach> hellas :)
<LaserJock> will you be around for a few more hours?
<dholbach> what do you mean?
<azeem> dholbach will be with you. Always.
* dholbach hugs azeem :)
<LaserJock> lol
<LaserJock> I got a class but maybe I will just ask you real quick
<dholbach> feel free to :)
<LaserJock> I noticed that you assigned a bug to MOTUScience. Is that generally ok for us to do?
<dholbach> yeah
<LaserJock> My only concern was that the bug report won't go to universe-bugs, correct?
<dholbach> oh yeah, then add MOTU as a CC
<dholbach> i thought i had done that
<LaserJock> how would I do that from launchpad?
<LaserJock> or can I?
<dholbach> login, open the bug, righthand-side: CC somebody else
<dholbach> or something like that
<lucas> dholbach: can we discuss https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libgettext-ruby/+bug/5035 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5035: ruby (Ubuntu) - shared library installed to incorrect directory on amd64 In: libgettext-ruby (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTURuby, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/5035
<dholbach> lucas: sure
<LaserJock> dholbach: like Subscribe Somebody Else?
<dholbach> LaserJock: yeah, if you want somebody's opinion
<lucas> I have a simple patch
<LaserJock> dholbach: OK, I just didn't want to keep the rest of the MOTU out of the loop if we decided to take some bugs
<lucas> it just needs rebuilding and I think it can go to breezy-updates
<dholbach> lucas: patch != just rebuilding, but attach the patch to the bug, or did you already?
<lucas> I did
<dholbach> cool
<Lord_Athur> hi everyone
<Lord_Athur> I need to learn how to compile an application
<Lord_Athur> i've downloaded the source,
<Lord_Athur> configured it
<Lord_Athur> but I do not know more
<dholbach> a package or new software?
<Lord_Athur> package
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CreatePackageFromSourcePackage?highlight=%28source%29
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<Lord_Athur> someone gave me the following line command:
<Lord_Athur> ./configure && make && make install
<Lord_Athur> I did it
<Lord_Athur> but the package is not different
<minghua> Lord_Athur: that's the way to compile an upstream tarball, not a source package
<minghua> Lord_Athur: for an source package you should use the commands in the wiki
<ivoks> \sh_away: ping
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<ivoks> ogra: for packages that need only rebuild, version is -build1 or -ubuntu1?
<ogra> -build1
<ivoks> tnx
<Kyral> hey
<Tonio_> hi
<dholbach> hey Tonio_
<Tonio_> hi dholbach , fine ?
<dholbach> if you ask like that, how could i say no? :)
<Tonio_> ;)
<Tonio_> little bit better for me
<Tonio_> so that's okay, I try to get every little element like THE good news
<dholbach> :)
<LaserJock> have you guys dist-upgraded to dapper or are you just using chroots?
<minghua> what about a dist-upgrade in chroot? :-P
<LaserJock> minghua: well, that is what I meant by chroot I guess
<LaserJock> I was thinking of dist-upgrading but I'm not sure if that is a good idea yet
<minghua> actually I couldn't install ubuntu-desktop in dapper when I upgraded
<minghua> I had to install ubuntu-desktop in breezy then upgrade
<LaserJock> I think I have ubuntu-desktop still
<\sh> morning
<LaserJock> I just wondered if people were having a hard time dist-upgrading and if X worked at the moment. Beyond that I'm pretty ok
<minghua> morning \sh
<minghua> gdm has a bug and doesn't start
<minghua> I don't know if that's fixed or not, but the patch is trival
<minghua> LaserJock: I always have two systems
<LaserJock> well, I'm a former Gentoo user so I don't mind a little tweaking to get thing going
<\sh> LaserJock: which is not all the time a good thing, but sometimes yes :)
<LaserJock> minghua: I just got rid of my spare partition and mounted it as /var for chroots and pbuilder. Maybe I will go back to having 2
<minghua> LaserJock: my experience is that pbuidler don't use a lot of space
<LaserJock> minghua: yeah, but the chroots seem to, anyway I wanted to keep them around even when I do one of my frequent reinstalls ;-)
<LaserJock> anyway, I might just reshuffle some stuff around and put both breezy and dapper on
<minghua> LaserJock: you probably want a different partition for your /var/cache/apt/archives then :-)
<LaserJock> minghua: well, I got 40GB to play around with and I'm only using 8GB so I'm sure I will find room
<minghua> I always use the same /var/cache/apt/archives for both my systems, and any pbuidlers if I have
<LaserJock> good idea
<minghua> one nice thing about doing so on a Debian testing/unstable box is that upgrading testing half rarely download anything :-)
<ajmitch_> hi
<herve> hello
<herve> someone to advocate a python package?
<Surak> dholbach: bug 4430 states that version has changed. But does not say a thing about the mirrors no longer working anymore. bug 5183 on launchpad is a little more descriptive.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #4430: nonfree (Ubuntu) - Macromedia has released an upgrade of Flash Player 7 plugin In: flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/4430
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5183: nonfree (Ubuntu) - Flash tar file moved from mirrors to macromedia In: flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/5183
<Surak> Ubugtu: I posted 5183
<dholbach> Surak: it's a bug bot :)
<dholbach> gnome bug 20000
<dholbach> hrm
<Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome Bugzilla bug #20000: NotFound
<dholbach> ubuntu bug 20000
<Ubugtu> Ubuntu Bugzilla bug #20000: kdebase-dev can not be installed due to broken dependencies: Product: Ubuntu, Component: kdebase-dev, Severity: normal, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: NEEDINFO http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20000
<dholbach> :)
<Surak> duh!
<Surak> :-)
<LaserJock> man, so Gnome doesn't have 20000 bugs?
<minghua> Hmm, I see that Ubugtu is upgraded. :-)
<Surak> dholbach: the fact is that the update-flashplugin script seems quite useless in terms of version checking.
<dholbach> we should add all necessary information to that bug
<Surak> ok
<Surak> It's better to post there than here. But is there a motu responsible for it?
<dholbach> not responsible
<dholbach> we do everything as team work
<LaserJock> hi kjcole
<herve> we're the borg :-)
<LaserJock> resistance is futile ;-)
<Surak> let's assimilate macromedia :-)
<dholbach> hey herve :)
<kjcole> LaserJock: Hiya.  Thanks for the tip. I printed out the doc, but haven't had time to do much with it.
<LaserJock> kjcole: fine, let me know if there is anything that needs to be changed/clarified , etc.
<herve> hol daniel!
<kjcole> LaserJock: (Though I did find a typo.  I forget where but was going to fix it later today in the wiki.)
<LaserJock> kjcole: which wiki?
<kjcole> LaserJock: Maybe I can't.  doc.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> kjcole: no, that's a just a website. Just email me or tell me here if I'm around
<kjcole> LaserJock: Ooops.  ;-)  Right.  Getting too used to everything I look at these days being a wiki.
<ogra> \sh, did you hear anything from pkern yet ? i just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportGobby :)
<LaserJock> kjcole: np, I know the feeling
<\sh> ogra: no
<Surak> Do we have access to macromedia devs? Just to propose the gpg_md5 file...
<kjcole> LaserJock: Found the error.  In Chapter 1, it's a "cut & paste" error, where you ended up with duplicate text.
<Kyral> hey
<kjcole> LaserJock: Am sending in e-mail
<LaserJock> kjcole: great, thanks
<Kyral> Anyone else having problems with X not starting because it cannot find mouse and kbd?
<\sh> ogra: i
<\sh> 'm waiting for his "go"
<\sh> ogra: he said something about "thursday"
<ajmitch_> \sh: new upstream?
<ajmitch_> I was tempted to do a gobby upload last night
<ogra> \sh, yup, i read it
<\sh> ajmitch: yes and new debian upstream...but should hit ubuntu faster then debian
<ajmitch_> since it was uninstallable
<\sh> ajmitch: 0.3 will hit
<ajmitch_> instead I just watched gobby be removed from my box
<ajmitch_> a painful experience
<ogra> ajmitch_, we'll get 0.3.0 from phillip before debian gets it ;)
<ajmitch_> ogra: that's only because debian is taking an age & a day to do transitions again
<ogra> he would have to NMU some packages to get it in
<ajmitch_> we can't afford to :)
<ogra> i want it on the edubuntu CD asap :)
* ajmitch_ updates his pbuilder
<\sh> ajmitch_: you see...something is wrong with the structure..those things has to be done afap :)
<Kyral> Edubuntu will be most fun
<sistpoty> hi folks
<ajmitch_> hey sistpoty
<dholbach> hey sistpoty
<ajmitch_> dholbach!
<dholbach> ;)
<ajmitch_> you live!!
<dholbach> of course :)
<ajmitch_> \sh: I finally did some main uploads last night ;)
* dholbach hugs ajmitch_ 
<sistpoty> btw.: when is next motu-meeting/is there a meeting planned at all?
<ajmitch_> sistpoty: not yet
<sistpoty> ah, k
<ajmitch_> I don't think I got a response when I asked last night :)
* sistpoty tends to miss meetings in general
<dholbach> it's all up to us, isnt it?
<ajmitch_> dholbach: it is
<ajmitch_> 2 weeks from now might be reasonable
<ogra> sistpoty, just stay around for 10 mins more ;)
<ajmitch_> as long as it's not at 3am ;)
<\sh> ajmitch_: dude...welcome to the real world :)
<ogra> then you wont miss it
<ajmitch_> \sh: I think I got clanlib right, finally ;)
<sistpoty> ogra: hehe... daylight saving time caught me off for a few times ;)
<ogra> heh, me too.. but i'm used to it now
<ajmitch_> ok, have to run to work, will be back soon :)
<sistpoty> l8er ajmitch
<sistpoty> hm... why is mako on the list of candidates for motu?
<dholbach> i asked that myself :)
<sistpoty> hehe
<abelcheung> is there really any subjective condition to propose oneself as motu candidates?
<dholbach> abelcheung: you have to be an ubuntu member before
<dholbach> (you become member in a community council meeting, where you elaborate on what you did in the ubuntu landscape)
<abelcheung> sure, just asking if there is any more
<dholbach> and you become a motu, if you get people to vouch for you, vouch for your technical skills and for your team-play
<dholbach> it's quite straightforward
<abelcheung> oh, see, thanks :-)
<dholbach> so if you like playing with packages, fixing stuff with us, get new stuff in, then you should be quite able to make it in soon :)
<Kyral> Or in my case breaking then fixing :D
<herve> Kyral, I see you're used to our procedures :-)
<Kyral> Its an official procedure? LOL
<Kyral> Actually....the new X update. Did it change where the v4l module went?
<Kyral> X is crashing out saying it can't load v4l nor nvidia
<ogra> slomo_, !!
<ogra> #ubuntu-meeting
<slomo_> ogra: thanks
* Kyral shrugs and tries to bodge up his own fix
<Surak> dholbach : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/5183 updated, with patch suggestions.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #5183: nonfree (Ubuntu) - Flash tar file moved from mirrors to macromedia In: flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/5183
<dholbach> excellent
<Surak> What can I do now to assure that this fix will reach the light?
<Surak> ops, I always forget to name people: dholbach :-)
<ajmitch_> assign it to motureviewers :)
<ajmitch_> or to motu
<dholbach> hmhmhmhm, work with somebody, get a patch rolling
<ajmitch_> probably to motu, and talk to someone as dholbach says
<StevenK> Wheee, pingus builds.
<StevenK> ajmitch_: As long as the buildds grab ubuntu6, can you request a sync?
<ajmitch_> it is definitely syncable then?
<ajmitch_> no ubuntu changes to keep?
<StevenK> The stock Debian package just built for me
<ajmitch_> ok, and you reviewed the ubuntu changes?
<StevenK> There are three patches that all are applied and the changelog.
<ajmitch_> ok, wasn't sure if they got applied in the NMU or not :)
<StevenK> Well, the three patches exist, due to pingus being dpatch.
<ajmitch_> I'll run a quick debdiff
<StevenK> And iterm built on i386, amd64 and ppc and failed on ia64.
<StevenK> But ia64 failed due to some ghostscript thing.
<ajmitch_> no surprises there
<StevenK> No?
<ajmitch_> ia64 is not a release-blocking arch
<StevenK> So just close my merge bug and deal?
<ajmitch_> probably
<ajmitch_> since it's most likely to be gs at fault
<StevenK> ps2pdf refman.ps refman.pdf
<StevenK> GPL Ghostscript 8.15: Can't find initialization file gs_init.ps.
<ajmitch_> pingus looks reasonable
<StevenK> ajmitch_: Told you. :-)
<ajmitch_> sure, I trust you :)
<Surak> ajmitch_ : talk to who? 'someone' is not that specific :-)
<ajmitch_> but I'm always obliged to check things over quickly
<ajmitch_> Surak: a MOTU or someone else here willing to help
<Kyral> umm, stupid question. Will a module from /usr/X11R6/lib/modules work in /usr/lib/xorg?
<Surak> ajmitch_ : there's a patch already posted on the bug . Anyone ?
<sistpoty> Surak: currently there is TB-meeting in #ubuntu-meeting... maybe I'll look at it after the meeting
<Surak> sistpoty: Ok.
<Kyral> Time to do this the hard way....
<herve> bye
<ajmitch_> StevenK: you should put iterm as uploaded on your wiki page :)
<Kyral> wb
<Kyral> oh, found a bug in the X package
<zakame> early morning all
<Kyral> hey
<dholbach> everybody have a look at http://lists.ubuntu.com
<ogra> why ?
<Kyral> I kinda can't......
<dholbach> please
<dholbach> do me a favor
<ogra> pfft
<ogra> ubuntu-motu
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> :O)
* Kyral blinks
* sistpoty hugs dholbach
<ajmitch_> finally!
<ajmitch_> yay
<dholbach> :)
<ajmitch_> another mailing list to subscribe to
* zakame hugs dholbach :D
<dholbach> tsssssssss
<Kyral> very nice
<Kyral> I will sign up as soon as I fix X
<Kyral> Is anyone else having problems with it?
<sistpoty> Kyral: breezy or dapper?
<ajmitch_> no, I haven't restarted X for awhile :)
<Kyral> Dapper
<sistpoty> he, that's why I'm still on breezy, Kyral ;)
<ajmitch_> not for a month or so
<Kyral> I know terminal is fine, but I can't watch anime in a console
<Kyral> ;P
<ajmitch_> you don't need to watch anime
<ajmitch_> you need to fix packages
<Kyral> I'm trying to fix X :D
<Kyral> or trying to figure out what is wrong
<Kyral> something about the fonts being "unscaled"
<ajmitch_> zakame: why add autotools-dev build-dep for eyed3?
<ajmitch_> afaict it's the only 'real' change that might be needed
<sistpoty> zakame get your key into the keyring (see Uploads on wiki) ;)
<ajmitch_> otherwise there are a lot of extra changes (fsf address, capitalisation)
<ajmitch_> zakame: and debhelper shoudl still be in Build-Depends
<dholbach> everybody sign up on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<Kyral> Sometimes a reboot is best :D
<zakame> ajmitch: I based that from the previous merge
<zakame> err, ajmitch_ I mean
<ajmitch_> ok, and what was the reason given for it?
<Kyral> dholbach: I almost forgot I signed up for the Install Guide lol "D
<zakame> ajmitch_: actually I had a bit of time with eyed3, since in debian arch: was set to any, while in here its all
<ajmitch_> there might be a reason for that
<zakame> errr, none mentioned at the changelog :((
<ajmitch_> even if it's arch: all debhelper should be in Build-Depends
<slomo_> gn8 everybody
<zakame> ajmitch_: ok, I'll be revising the debdiff in a while, many thanks :)
<zakame> gn8 slomo_ :)
<dholbach> night guys
<Kyral> cya
<lucas> [mailing list]  excellent news :-)
* Kyral goes to signup
<lucas> Kyral: when you have found the page to subscribe, tell me ;)
* zakame hugs dholbach one more time :-)
<ajmitch_> night dholbach
<Kyral> lists.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch_> night slomo_
<lucas> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<dholbach> :)))
<siretart> hey
<Kyral> signed up for the MOTU List :D
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<siretart> huhu sistpoty
<zakame> hi siretart
<Kyral> hey siretart
<siretart> zakame: congrats to motuness!
<siretart> hi Kyral
<zakame> siretart: thank you! :0
<zakame> s#0#)#
<siretart> slomo_: and congratulations to main approval :)
<minghua> oh we have a mailing list now?  great!
<siretart> we have?
<Kyral> Yah
<ajmitch_> siretart: we have!
<siretart> where?
<ajmitch_> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<Kyral> lists.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch_> same place as the other lists
<siretart> YAY! :)
<ajmitch_> so now we can describe our drunken antics
<ajmitch_> umm
<Kyral> lol
<ajmitch_> I mean our packagging
<zakame> yes, breaking news
<sistpoty> hehe
* ajmitch_ should invest in a new keyboard, this one makes too many typos
<Kyral> Our drunken packaging antics!
<siretart> \o/ :)
<ajmitch_> who wants to get first post?
<Kyral> I am not worthy
<ajmitch_> neither am I
<Kyral> Yes, but you are more worthy than I :D
<ajmitch_> nah
* minghua is still waiting for the subscription comfirmation mail
<Kyral> yah
<sistpoty> where is bddebian when we are in need of him ;)
<ajmitch_> he is the only one worthy?
<Kyral> and the MOTU Science team started getting bugs assigned to it!
* ajmitch_ is just clueless :)
<sistpoty> *g*
<ajmitch_> you'd better fix them then
<Kyral> I will
<Kyral> after my exam tonight
<ajmitch_> hi lamont
<lamont> hi
<siretart> hey lamont!
<zakame> hello lamont :)
<siretart> first post!
* sistpoty waits for fetchmail to finish
<zakame> oooh!
<siretart> :)
<\sh> phew
<\sh> congrats bmonty and zakame again for becoming a MOTU :) well done
<zakame> \sh: many thanks indeed :)
<ajmitch_> oh man
<ajmitch_> 'FF 1.5 is out, gimme packages'
<Kyral> Yah
<ajmitch_> that's asking for pain
<Kyral> indeed
<siretart> ajmitch_: he seems to love pain
<Seveas> <ajmitch_> 'FF 1.5 is out, gimme packages' <-- sudo apt-get install epiphany-browser
<Seveas> ;)
<Kyral> lol :D
<zakame> hehe
<ajmitch_> Seveas: heh, but this user wants firefox, right NOW!
<Kyral> Then he can compile it himself :P
<tseng> rc3 isnt cutting it for me dude
<tseng> pass the pipe
<ajmitch_> nah, this was a breezy user
<siretart> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=346926
<Seveas> rc3 backported to breezy segfaults for me ;)
<Seveas> (yes I had to be a ricer and try it out)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-27
<jmarsden> I'm very new to Ubuntu (but not to Linux or to programing).  I'm trying to understand dependencies in Ubuntu.  In Edgy, ubuntu-minimal depends on alsa-base which depends on lsof.   lsof is not  a direct deoendency  of ubuntu-minimal -- shouldn't it be?  Or am I confused about what ubuntu-minimal is?
<mr_pouit> jmarsden: ubuntu-standard depends on lsof
<mr_pouit> ubuntu-standard: 
<mr_pouit>  This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu standard system.
<mr_pouit>  This set of packages provides a comfortable command-line Unix-like
<mr_pouit>  environment.
<mr_pouit> is more "essential/minimal" than ubuntu-minimal I think
<jmarsden> mr_pouit: Yes... but either ubuntu-minimal installs with a missing dependency, or it will pull in lsof, and it claims  "This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu minimal system"
<jmarsden> So, is lsof in the Ubuntu minimal system, or not??  Have I found a trivial bug???
<mr_pouit> :/
<jmarsden> Oh well, thanks.
<mr_pouit> jmarsden: lsof has : "Priority : Important", not essential... so maybe a system can work without it
<mr_pouit> (I don't know ^^")
<LaserJock> jmarsden: a dependency of a dependency is implied to be a dependency
<LaserJock> so ubuntu-minimal doesn't have to explicetly list dependecies that are dependecies of somthing that it already depends on
<LaserJock> if that makes any sense :-)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: do you have beryl crack/
<Burgundavia> ?
<bhale> hello, Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey bhale
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: does Userful still use mostly Fedora? or was it RHEL
<Burgundavia> fedora, about to move to 6
* Burgundavia doesn't really want to think about work's messed up development right now
<LaserJock> ok, sorry
<LaserJock> :-)
<Burgundavia> no worries
<LaserJock> I was downloading the Fedora6 dvd and I remembered that you said they used fedora there
<Adri2000> the global sync from debian is still not finished?
<Burgundavia> I really should pull down the dvd
<crimsun> Adri2000: context?
<LaserJock> Adri2000: we are still merging/syncing
<Adri2000> python-diacanvas2... but wait, I'm trying to understand all the things :p
<crimsun> diacanvas2 is synced with sid.
<Adri2000> diacanvas2 |   0.14.4-4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
<Adri2000> diacanvas2 |   0.14.4-4 | http://ftp.fr.debian.org unstable/main Sources
<Adri2000> that's ok
<Adri2000> but my pbuilder wasn't ok with that two seconds ago...
<Adri2000>  -> Considering  python-diacanvas2 (>= 0.14.4)
<Adri2000>       Tried versions: 0.14.2-2ubuntu1
<Adri2000> not built yet maybe?
* Adri2000 checking
<Adri2000> erf, FTBFS!
<Adri2000> crimsun: this FTBFS has to be fixed first, but I was going to request a sync for gaphor, could you check?
<crimsun> check what?
<Adri2000> if I can request a sync, a motu has to ack
<crimsun> ...do you want me to check a sync request for gaphor?
<crimsun> (you mention two different things in that previous part)
<Adri2000> yes
<LaserJock> Adri2000: does gaphor need diacanvas2?
<Adri2000> yep, that's how I discovered the problem with gaphor ^^, I know I must not request the sync until diacanvas2 is fixed
<LaserJock> ok, so then it's pointless for crimsun to check the sync until diacanvas2 is fixed, right?
<Adri2000> yeah, it's not really a high urgency :)
<crimsun> gaphor is syncable from sid right now.
<crimsun> it will just ftbfs until diacanvas2 is fixed
<crimsun> (when the depwait is satisfied, then gaphor will be rebuilt automatically)
<Adri2000> so the sync request can be done now?
<LaserJock> true, but if you don't know if it even builds (regardless of the diacanvas2 issue) ...
<crimsun> it's fine to request a sync if you know the Ubuntu changes have been subsumed.
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> but it's not as nice as knowing that the thing actually builds
<LaserJock> :-)
<Adri2000> none of you know pkgc_version_check()?
<geser> Adri2000: : Hobbsee|Remote will yell a you when a sync request does not build
<Adri2000> I know it won't build
<LaserJock> oh my gosh, talk about a bad email
<LaserJock> that kqemu post on -devel is going to get some flaming :-)
<crimsun> I've killfiled -devel, because it's just crack at this point.
<crimsun> may as well unsub at this rate.
<ademan> would one of you kind souls be able to help me with a pbuilder build  error?
<ademan> rather, a dpkg-buildpackage
<crimsun> I can understand the frustration at the open* stuff, but ffs, shut up already.
<LaserJock> ademan: what's up?
<ademan> LaserJock: i'll paste you the log, i dunno if its the right url as firefox is being retarded, but hold on
<ademan> http://rafb.net/paste/results/AkqTrW15.html
<crimsun> line 21
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I have no idea why it' hasn't been shut down and sent elsewhere
<erik1397> LaserJock:  I asked jdong if really was in charge of tovid, and he said that he's not, it was a mistake...but if someone can help him, that would be great.
<crimsun> tar is literally expecting "../upstream/*.tar.gz"
<ademan> crimsun: is there any way i can fix that?
<LaserJock> erik1397: so he's not working on it?
<crimsun> so either pass tar a specific filename explicitly, or use a shell loop
<ademan> well
<ademan> how would i do that? considering i'm not calling tar, pbuilder is
<ademan> or is that part of the rules script?
<crimsun> that's part of the build target in debian/rules
<ademan> so i could modify it
<ademan> crimsun: for one its trying to change into the "source-tree" directory which doesnt exist
<erik1397> LaserJock: i PMed him on the forums.  here was my exact message: "Hey I see now that on here: http://revu.tauware.de/ you uploaded tovid. Does that mean that you're the sole packager? Is anyone gonna help you out? Are you responsible for making a ubuntu repo-quality tovid package for the upcoming feisty release?"
<erik1397> and here's his message: No, it was a mistake that made that package land on revu. *.dsc sorta grabbed tovid instead of the ktorrent I was looking at. Please contact some #ubuntu-motu guys and beg for packaging help 
<erik1397> please help a man out in need! :)
<ademan> crimsun: well i made a folder upstream within the package dir and then put in the upstream tarball, and it worked, but the log says "unrepresentable changes" dunno if that's necessarily a bad thing though
<crimsun> ademan: yes. unrepresentable changes cause the generation of the source package to bail.
<ademan> :-/
<ajmitch> LaserJock: why would the kqemu mail come in for flames?
<ademan> i feel like starting over
<ajmitch> LaserJock: the author may be gently redirected elsewhere :)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> did you see all the lists he sent it to?
<ajmitch> yeah, just saw that
<ajmitch> it's a little bit silly
<ajmitch> I'm surprised at how many mails there are about binary drivers, and especially nouveau
<LaserJock> it's all rather messy
<LaserJock> makes me depressed
<ajmitch> a good case for a devel-posting-only list
<LaserJock> I see on fedora's planet "As you know, the next ubuntu release will not be a free Linux distribution"
<LaserJock> well, it isn't just the ML though
<ajmitch> I know
<ajmitch> this binary driver issue is bringing a lot of pain
<ajmitch> & the invitation to opensuse developers
<LaserJock> well, tbh I've started looking at other distros for the first time since I started working on Ubuntu
* ajmitch has seen a few people doing that now
<LaserJock> at least looking at what other distros are doing
<ajmitch> looking to jump ship?
<LaserJock> I've had my Ubuntu "blinders" on for over a year
<LaserJock> not particularly
<LaserJock> I love Universe and you guys enough that'd take a lot
<ajmitch> we don't realise how much ubuntu sucks sometimes :)
<LaserJock> well, if anything made me jump ship it'd probably be Canonical
<ademan> i don't understand the hang up on binary drivers, yes they're evil, but i can totally see WHY they're being included
<zul> ajmitch: blaspehmy
<ademan> i mean, i spend way too much time on digg.com and time and time again it's "does ubuntu support your graphics card by default yet?"
<ajmitch> zul: admit it
<zul> ajmitch: yeah sometimes
<LaserJock> ademan: it is an issue if you believe strongly in open source software and see installing binaries as giving away all our bargaining power
<ademan> LaserJock: i know, but the way i see it it can help linux (and specifically ubuntu) gain a wider audience
<ademan> and with a larger market share you actually have MORE bargaining power
<ajmitch> at what cost?
<LaserJock> sure, we can be MS and gain a wider audience
<LaserJock> it is a benifiet vs. cost thing
<LaserJock> anyway, the actual issue isn't the issue to me
* ajmitch is happy to help hack on the nouveau driver :)
<LaserJock> I usually run the binary drivers anyway
<ademan> i run them, because i'm an openGL dev...
<LaserJock> but it's how we handle the issue that I'm not so excited about
<ademan> i can't "out of principle" lack 3d acceleration
<LaserJock> that's fine
<LaserJock> but the issue is what we "force" people to do
* ajmitch has started submitting minor patches to nouveau already
<ajmitch> if I as a developer complain about the binary driver, I might as well do something about it
<LaserJock> do we make them do a little work to get the 3D accel because we are sticking to our guns
<ademan> ajmitch: how? we don't have anything resembling specs do we?
<ajmitch> ademan: you wouldn't believe the RE effort they did
<ademan> RE?
<ajmitch> most of the functionality is worked out
<jmarsden> ademan: Reverse Engineering
<ademan> ah
<_MMA_> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
<ajmitch> reverse engineering, in the sense of watching what the nvidia driver sends to the card
<ademan> clean room?
<ajmitch> not code disassembly
<ademan> i pledged 10 bucks to it, for whatever the heck its worth
<ajmitch> ademan: pretty much nothing
<ajmitch> that pledge was setup by some person, and the nouveau developers found out later
<ademan> heh
<ajmitch> so while they have worked out a lot, there's still a *long* way to go
<ademan> i was just thinking
<ademan> couldn't they use GLDebugger?
<ademan> just change it around a bit?
<ademan> er wait, gotta think about that for a sec
<ajmitch> this tool (renouveau) watches at a lower level, I suspect
<ademan> no, it just catches GL calls, not the actual bits sent across the bus anyways
<ademan> so yeah itd' be useless
<ajmitch> ah, that's not nearly enough
<ajmitch> this tool looks at the command FIFOs on the card
<LaserJock> wow, how boring ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
<LaserJock> clearly I'm not a hardware guy
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
* ajmitch likes hardware
<ademan> ajmitch: will noveau be LEGAL? at least to distribute
<ajmitch> ademan: sure, why wouldn't it?
<ademan> since my understanding is driver code contains a LOT of IP
<ajmitch> it's not looking at the driver code
<ajmitch> only at what gets sent to the card
<ajmitch> quite different
<ademan> right, but it will be implementing the same stuff
<ajmitch> so would any driver
<ajmitch> saying that something would be illegal because it can talk to a hardware interface is stretching things a lot, even with current IP law
<ademan> well its not the talking part that i'm worried about
<ademan> but say that there's some technique used in the current drivers that's subject to IP laws
<ajmitch> I don't think that nvidia would want the PR disaster that would result
<ademan> and we for whatever reason are FORCED to re-implement that same thing
<ademan> i don't know enough about the related laws
* ajmitch would think that you're worried about a nonexistent problem
<ademan> but i'm thinking like mpeg codecs, yes its all our code, but its DOING the same thing
<ademan> if that makes any sense
<ajmitch> you worry that there would be patent violations in the driver?
<ademan> i guess, i don't really even know what to call what i'm worrying about
<ademan> it would be really cool if noveau released openGL LM and openGL 3.0 drivers before nvidia...
<ajmitch> unlikely
<ademan> i dunno, for linux their drivers will most likely be late
<ademan> and openGL LM is going to be a breeze for driver developers
<ademan> openGL 3.0 a bit harder
<ajmitch> how far away are they meant to be?
* ajmitch heard that opengl 3.0 will be a bit of a change
<ademan> both are changing the entire object model
<ademan> i dunno if you're familiar with openGL
<ademan> but for instance glBindTexture(GL_TEXTURE_2D, SomeTexture);  glTextureImage2D(...);  would fill up a texture with image data
<ademan> in openGL LM (and probably 3.0 as well)
<ademan> it will be more like
<ademan> glTextureImage(SomeTexture, ...);
<ajmitch> that will make things fun for app developers
<ademan> its going to be a LOT less complicated
<ademan> but also far lower level
<ademan> (openGL LM anyways)
<ademan> i'm really excited about OpenGL LM
* ajmitch hasn't heard any details of LM
<ademan> LM is Lean and Mean
<ademan> they're gonna ditch immediate mode, display lists, vertex arrays, and a bunch of other old crap, like polygon stipple
<ajmitch> useful
<ademan> i'm gonna personally miss vertex arrays, but they're easily emulated with a dynamic vertex buffer object
<ademan> and that's how they're implemented internally anyways
<ademan> display lists were "useful" for like 2 years, and then vertex arrays came along and they were unneccesary
<ademan> LM and 3.0 are gonna get fun things like geometry shaders and true instancing
<ajmitch> by which stage they'll be supported in most common hardware :)
<ademan> right
<ademan> which will be sufficiently awesome
<ajmitch> unlike my cheap card
<ademan> haha
<ademan> what card?
<ajmitch> geforce 6600
<ademan> hehe
<ademan> same
<ademan> except mine's a go
<ajmitch> or the i915 in the laptop
<ademan> ouch
<ademan> but hey, geometry shaders would be easy to implement for an integrated card
<ademan> especially since its open source drivers
<ademan> i mean, geometry shaders are just meant to reduce the amount of info sent over the card bus
<ademan> since with an integrated card there is no card bus, it shouldnt be a performance hit at all to just implement it on the cpu
<joejaxx> ajmitch: LaserJock are you around?
<ajmitch> maybe
<joejaxx> should i maybe fluxbuntu-desktop a dependency of the settings package?
<joejaxx> i am just wondering whether i should do that or not
<joejaxx> because if someone installs fluxbuntu-desktop
<joejaxx> and removes a package like rox it will remove fluxbuntu-desktop and the settings package
<joejaxx> if i make it a dependency
* ajmitch doesn't know what the various dependencies arem can't really give an informed opinion right now
<joejaxx> oh ok
<fernando> hi all
* Hobbsee waves
<ajmitch> hello
<LaserJock> hi fernando, Hobbsee, ajmitch 
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!
<bhale> hello
<LaserJock> hi bhale 
<fernando> hi LaserJock 
<joejaxx> ajmitch: how do i sign the release file manually
<joejaxx> gpg -abs Release Release.gpg
<bhale> debsign
<bhale> oh
<bhale> Release
<joejaxx> on a release file?
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> a releae file
<joejaxx> i/win 32
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i complete the fluxbuntu-* packages
<joejaxx> now it is time for debugging
<LaserJock> \o/
<ajmitch> yay
* ajmitch needs vmware fixed
<joejaxx> Unpacking fluxbuntu-desktop (from .../fluxbuntu-desktop_0.4_i386.deb) ...
<joejaxx> Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb
<joejaxx> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<joejaxx> LOL
<ajmitch> well that's uninformative
<joejaxx> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config', which is the diverted version of `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real'
<ajmitch> you pasted everything but the actual error
<joejaxx> darn it
<ajmitch> better..
<joejaxx> ie
<joejaxx> you have to install wdm first
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: why doesnt it work?
<joejaxx> because
<joejaxx> i need to have as a dependency in fluxbuntu-default-settings
<joejaxx> that wdm needs to be installed first
<joejaxx> other wise it will do the diversion
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: hm?
<joejaxx> error like that
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: what's broken in vmware?
<joejaxx> and error*
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: modules not compatible with 2.6.19, I did what should be the fix, but networking is somewhat broken still
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<ajmitch> differences in checksumming
<ajmitch> aha
<ajmitch> found a vmware patches dir
<ajmitch> needs to be CHECKSUM_PARTIAL
<joejaxx> ajmitch: dpkg-divert --remove --rename --divert /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config
<joejaxx> that is the ccorrect way to remove a divert right?
* ajmitch shrugs
<joejaxx> :(
<LaserJock> joejaxx boldly goes where no one has gone before ...
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> and it has messed up apt
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config', which is the diverted version of `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real'
<joejaxx> i want to remove that
<joejaxx> bahumbug
<crimsun> TheMuso: (please also mention the subsumption of libxinerama-dev in qiv 2.0-6)
<LaserJock> gosh, I didn't realize how expensive laptop AC adaptors were :/
<joejaxx> who here is good with dpkg-divert?
<joejaxx> bah
<LaserJock> joejaxx: the simple fact of the matter is you will now know probably more than anybody about it right now
<ajmitch> mostly because it's a hack
<Lathiat> LaserJock: sometimes you can get generic ones
<joejaxx> ajmitch: oh ok
<joejaxx> who devised this hack?
* ajmitch shrugs
<joejaxx> might be time to join debian and see if anyone know
<joejaxx> there
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
<dholbach> Hobbsee: hey Sarah!
<dholbach> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> good :)
<LaserJock> Lathiat: I went to Best Buy today and the cheapest one I found was $83 USD
<Lathiat> LaserJock: mm nice
<LaserJock> I was thinking like $10 or $20 max :/
<LaserJock> unrealistic expectations I guess
<Lathiat> i would have tho up to around $50
<LaserJock> dholbach: guten Morgen
<LaserJock> Lathiat: well, I found a few for around $40 online
<LaserJock> but even newegg had it for $90
<dholbach> hey LaserJock :-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i had tyo buy one for my ibook and the cheapest i found was 95$
<imbrandon> online or not
<imbrandon> moins all
<LaserJock> that sucks
<Lathiat> ibooks are pretty specific tho IIRC
<imbrandon> not really, all apples arround that time took the same one
<LaserJock> tons of things have AC adaptors, I just didn't think it'd be that expensive
<imbrandon> just as all mbp now have the same etc
<imbrandon> luckly i found one on ebay for $50, but still
<imbrandon> kinda sucked
<imbrandon> at the time
<imbrandon> hrm ...
<Simon80> anyone have any recommendations about statically linking ffmpeg in a deb package?
<Simon80> stepmania needs a specific version, so I was going to just include the source for it with the package, and then build it in debian/rules, but that's probably frowned upon, right?
<Simon80> imbrandon: ping?
<lifeless> Simon80: why not just depend on that version ?
<Simon80> cause then I'd have to package it up too
<imbrandon> Simon80: pong
<lifeless> Simon80: isn't ffmpeg already packaged?
<Simon80> yeah, but later ver
<Simon80> oh, and they patch it
<imbrandon> ffmpeg should be packaged, i wouldent stacily link it, just strongly version it
<imbrandon> the depends that is
<Simon80> yeah
<imbrandon> like lifeless said
<Simon80> but then I'd have to have that package then
<imbrandon> no you would have to get your patches in ffmpeg :)
<imbrandon> should already be packaged
<Simon80> yes, but not 0.4.9-pre1
<lifeless> Simon80: sounds like stepmania needs to be fixed more than anything else :)
<Simon80> yeah, I know
<Simon80> I'm thinking that as well
<Simon80> but I don't feel like doing it, lol
<Simon80> I'll talk to a dev about it now
<Simon80> and by a dev, I mean the dev I happen to be already talking to
<Burgundavia> upstream ffmpeg recommends you copy ffmpeg into your source
<Burgundavia> lifeless: ^
<Burgundavia> Simon80: ^
<Simon80> thank you
<lifeless> Burgundavia: holy crap
<Burgundavia> yes, they are that crazy
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I love using ffmpeg, but indeed
<Simon80> ok, I'm just gonna do what I said I would then
<Burgundavia> http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/download.html
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: i use it for converting .flv files
<Simon80> me too
<Simon80> ffmpeg2theora is what I do
<Simon80> saves me having to type
<Admiral_Chicago> it makes the whole "no good flash in linux" problem go away for me
<Simon80> not really
<Simon80> >fl7 flv files don't work in ffmpeg
<Admiral_Chicago> well i go to keepvid.com and I use that
<Simon80> ffmpeg can't decode them, I mean, techinically
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: really? I haven't come across that yet
<Simon80> yep
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: wow thats fskin amazing, they are nuts
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> lazy is more accurate, isn't it?
<Burgundavia> yes they are
<Burgundavia> they also don't believe in releases or a stable API/ABI
<imbrandon> heh 
<imbrandon> i'm glad i dont have to deal with their headaches much
<Simon80> metacafe wins worst circumvention of internet portability award
<LaserJock> well, I'm off for the evening, good night MOTU Land
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock 
<imbrandon> have fun
<somerville32> :)
<Simon80> http://lln-videos.metacafe.com/ItemFiles/%5BFrom%20www.metacafe.com%5D%20308780.2267666.11.flv
<Simon80> for admiral_chicago
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: let me check it out
<Admiral_Chicago> what exactly is this?
<Simon80> uh... random vid
<Simon80> IIRC, jaguar vs crocodile clip
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: okay cool, i'll code it later on, i'm doing calc homework
<Simon80> prolly that fictional documentary one... what a cheesy idea for a show
<Simon80> http://1024k.de/bookmarklets/video-bookmarklets.html
<Simon80> OT, but that's the bookmarklet I use
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: http://asuaf.org/~jj/blog/index.php/2006/01/08/convert-google-video-flvs-into-avi-mpg-etcin-linux/
<Admiral_Chicago> ignoring alll the installing stuff
<Simon80> oddly enough, ffmpeg2theora handles the badness more gracefully, grabs the audio stream but no video
<Simon80> ffmpeg alone just segfaults
<Burgundavia> likely different versions of ffmpeg
<Simon80> admiral_chicago, that would work for me, bit like I said, the issue isn't my arguments to ffmpeg, it's flash video 9
<Simon80> I have no problems with google
<Simon80> video*
<Simon80> the easiest way to get a decent vid out of it is ffmpeg2theora inputfile if you ask me, but I've done it like ffmpeg -i input output.avi as well
<Admiral_Chicago> yes i understand the thing is that i have yet to have ffmpeg fail on me so i do command line. 
<Admiral_Chicago> i assume ffmpeg2theora is a GUI app?
<Simon80> see above where I say ffmpeg2theora inputfile? that's the calling syntax
<Simon80> it dumps ${inputfile/.flv/.ogg} into the working directory
<Simon80> Like most open source projects FFmpeg suffers from a certain lack of manpower. For this reason the developers have to prioritize the work they do and putting out releases is not at the top of the list, fixing bugs and reviewing patches takes precedence. Please don't complain or request more timely and/or frequent releases unless you are willing to help out creating them.
<Simon80> lol
<Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: i've been around F/OSS to know that what we get in non-nogotiable :P
<Admiral_Chicago> well it's bed time for me. night
<Simon80> yeah, me too, sort of, I still try though
<Simon80> but I'm not a whiner
<Admiral_Chicago> I help as much as I can and get involved in projects I like
<Admiral_Chicago> oh well it's bed time
<Simon80> can someone tell me about kopete and the lack of jingle support in ubuntu?
<Simon80> I tried to google about it earlier today
<Burgundavia> jingle requires telepathy, it is coming
<imbrandon> it required an older jingle lib than whats in ubuntu
<Simon80> oh
<imbrandon> kopete*
<Simon80> so what about what burgundavia is saying?
<Simon80> jingle is here
<Simon80> just not in kopete
<Simon80> I assume you meant that the support requires telepathy?
<Burgundavia> Simon80: kopete is going to use telepathy soonish
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> which is good I guess?
<Simon80> bottom line is it'll be in feisty?
<Burgundavia> yes, telepathy is good. Unknown as to timeframe
<Simon80> boo
<Simon80> why not get the existing jingle support working before then?
<Burgundavia> bug the kopeete people
<Simon80> but it's not them, kopete has jingle support
<imbrandon> because as i said kopete needs an old jingle , and they have no intrest in fixing it before telepathy :)
<Simon80> ah
<imbrandon> yes it is Simon80 
<Simon80> hrm
<Simon80> why don't you guys just statically link in bad situations like this?
<imbrandon> trust me i have been bugging them since dapper
<imbrandon> Simon80: because thats evil
<Simon80> lol
<StevenK> Because static linking leads to hate.
<Simon80> wouldn't users rather have a statically linked thing than no support for jingle at all?
<StevenK> It also leads to pitti screaming.
<Simon80> and I don't mean static everything, just that one lib
<imbrandon> sure if you have developers willing to suprt such a feasico
<imbrandon> ( that will never happen )
<imbrandon> you would need kde , debian, ubuntu and pitti all to agree
<imbrandon> :)
<Simon80> pitti?
<imbrandon> security guru
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> I see, ok, that's enough about that
<Simon80> argument won
<Simon80> somewhat
<Simon80> I mean, if there's a sec issue, you can update kopete
<imbrandon> point is there are people looking at making it work soon, its not just soon enough :)
<imbrandon> Simon80: sure if you happen to rember its staicly linked
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I suppose nobody's working on a good way to track what things are statically linked
<imbrandon> that and when things like the zlib vunerability came out a few years ago , every MS app had to be updated, whereas on linux only one lib :)
<Burgundavia> Simon80: there was some work done in main during the dapper cycle
<StevenK> imbrandon: And some things like dpkg
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea, but MUCH less :)
<Simon80> indeed, I agree about that
<imbrandon> i still thought that particualr one was funny as hell
<Simon80> I love how the debian way is so much less dirty
<Simon80> and yeah, I would find it funny, but it's not, it's sad, cause it's on everyone's box
<Simon80> I do gloat about it though
<imbrandon> not everyones, i dont ahve any windows installes atm :)
<imbrandon> but yea i know what you mean
<imbrandon> its not a perfect world yet
<imbrandon> man , i'm having trubble finding a computer to buy, StevenK wanna help me search the lazy web ? heh
<imbrandon> i want to make a 4 core system 
<imbrandon> e.g. 2 dual core proc
<imbrandon> i dont really care if its intel or amdx2's but i dont wanna spend over 2k for the whole system
<StevenK> I wasn't aware SMP dual-core boards were out. :-)
<imbrandon> i'm not sure either, that may be why i'm haing trubble :)
<imbrandon> having*
<imbrandon> i was thinking i seen somewhere you could do it with amdx2's though, i could be wrong
<StevenK> Looking at motherboards at my local, I see nothing.
<StevenK> I think, at least in the short team, you're dreaming.
<imbrandon> probably
<imbrandon> i seen just now some early 2007 4 core intel chips but they look terrible
<imbrandon> no on chip mem , one fsb , etc etc etc
<imbrandon> hum
<imbrandon> so i guess the question is now , amdx2 or core 2 duo
<StevenK> 'one fsb' means only one Front Side Bus?
<imbrandon> sorta
<imbrandon> yea thats what i typoed but not really ment
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> e.g no HT
<imbrandon> is more correct
* StevenK idly wonders if imbrandon could type any worse, and then decides he doesn't really want to know.
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> HT is a processor thing, it's nothing to do with the FSB.
<imbrandon> right, thats why i said i typed that but not really ment it
<imbrandon> brb more dew
* StevenK wonders why imbrandon doesn't have the fridge right next to his desk.
<PuMpErNiCkLe> o.O
<PuMpErNiCkLe> Dual core dual chip boards have been out for years...
<PuMpErNiCkLe> There was even a review where they tried mixing single and dual cores on a single board.
<StevenK> I have this feeling it didn't work.
<StevenK> The S in SMP is *Symmetric*.
<PuMpErNiCkLe> No, it didn't work out so well.
<PuMpErNiCkLe> http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/28/are_three_cores_better_than_two/page3.html
<imbrandon> wow i'm suprised that booted
<imbrandon> wow the xbox360 has 3 ppc core's also ? i always thought they had to go in pairs
<imbrandon> guess not
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> wenty though the apple store and customized an Mac Pro, turned out to be $16k
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> wont be getting that any time soon
<imbrandon> was pretty impressive though
<Burgundavia> 16k wtf!
<imbrandon> hahah yea
<imbrandon> thats whay i said
<Burgundavia> did you have gold plated mice and keyboard?
<imbrandon> 16gb ram, 3tb hdd space , 2x 3ghz proc etc
<imbrandon> dual 30in apple cinama displays
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> pretty much the top of everything
<Burgundavia> ah, I see
<imbrandon> looking at the market though, i really think the computer i get next month will be a mac
<imbrandon> probably a desktop replacemnt laptop
<imbrandon> like a high end mbp or something
<Burgundavia> umm
<Burgundavia> why not go with a linux-friendly vendor, like system76?
<Burgundavia> I certainly intend to buy my next machine from them or Lenovo
<imbrandon> apple hardware if pretty linux friendly , i looked at leveno , i just cant find what i really want from them
<imbrandon> i havent checked out system76's yet though
<Burgundavia> apple is not a linux friendly company, however
<imbrandon> more than alot of them are 
<imbrandon> they atleaste foster foss moreso
<imbrandon> maybe not linux but floss in general
<imbrandon> yea i know not 100%
<imbrandon> but its better than some of the evils out their
<Burgundavia> apple is probaby one of the worst companies you could support
<imbrandon> why is that ?
<imbrandon> i have always supported apple
<Burgundavia> drm out the yingyang with their itunes stuff and dicking around the opendarwin people
<imbrandon> opendarwin screwd themselfs, they still are hosting the open source parts themselfs at apple.com and will continue to doso
<Burgundavia> they are getting better, but their drm stance is not getting any better
<imbrandon> and i could really care less about drm to be honest as long as i can use it the way i want, and apple lets me do that, windows dosent
<Burgundavia> not to mention, their support is bloody awful
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> i mean drm to me is TOTALY ewvil, it depends on how its used
<Burgundavia> but by buying their hardware, you are doing 2 things: 1) support a drm-friendly company 2) not give business to a linux friendly companyh
<imbrandon> and imho apple does it the leaste evil way of any of them
<Burgundavia> apple uses drm to lock out competitors
<Burgundavia> that is almost more evil than just locking out pirates
<imbrandon> i dont see it that way
<imbrandon> but ok
<ogra> Burgundavia, do you know a website for system76 ? some people asked me here in poland about preinstalled ubuntu notebooks but i seem not to be able to find a homepage in google
<Burgundavia> you must agree with the "voting with your dollars" bit
<imbrandon> ] apple also used drm to keep the prices down on muisic too
<Burgundavia> http://system76.com/
<imbrandon> this last round
<ogra> hmm, funny
<Burgundavia> no, apple led the labels down a garden path
<ogra> why didnt i find that last week ?
<Burgundavia> drm has nothing to do with pricing
<imbrandon> i wouldent mind buying from system76 but when i talked to them at UDS about what i wanted they simply dident offer it
<imbrandon> sure it did
<imbrandon> since the labels were locked into apples drm they pretty much had to keep them at 99c
<imbrandon> or not online at all
<Burgundavia> apple locked labels into those prices due to skillful negotiation and a failure for labels to see how big the business was
<imbrandon> the ball bounces both ways
<Burgundavia> nothing at all to do with DRM
<imbrandon> right but they were locked in via the drm , they cant just jump ship, point is that apple does good and bad, its atleaste not 100% evil, i can think of far worse things
<Burgundavia> I agree apple is not wholly evil
<Burgundavia> you just have to realize the consequences of your purchases
<somerville32> Do you think it would be possible for me to get curl backported to edgy?
<Burgundavia> something most people are very bad at
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i do and i do
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: then do something about that
<imbrandon> no i fully understand, i just dont take the same stance as you 
<Burgundavia> tell system76 what you need
<imbrandon> i did Burgundavia 
<imbrandon> i had a long talk with them at UDS
<Burgundavia> if you need something, you are probably not the only dev that needs it
<imbrandon> yup that was some of what we talked about
<imbrandon> ( full disclosure i do own a system76 box too )
<imbrandon> and my main concern err point or what ever you want to call it is , between apple and dell and toshiba etc , apple is the lesser of the evils
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> because they atleaste do some good for the consumer, do support floss to an extent ( even if its not linux ) etc
<imbrandon> no they arent 100% godlike
<imbrandon> etc
<Burgundavia> I would rather purchase a lenovo thinkpad
<imbrandon> but no one really is in this industry
<Burgundavia> the one with opensuse
<Burgundavia> or sled, or whatever N is calling it this week
<imbrandon> nope i wont buy that one, it has a MS tax on it
<Burgundavia> no it doesn't
<Burgundavia> it has no MS or OS X tax on it
<imbrandon> if it has suse on it it does
<Burgundavia> right, but it does send the message that Linux is wanted
<Burgundavia> remember, outside of our little squabbles, the Linux community is viewed as a solid whole from without
<imbrandon> the wrong message opverall though, i would rather purchae and use osx then purchase suse in any form
<Burgundavia> ie: lack of interest in one distro means no distro will get support
<Burgundavia> trust me on that one
<imbrandon> maybe so, but i feel more strongly about not buying suse than not buying windows its self
<imbrandon> wrong or right, thats how i feel
<imbrandon> ( and i came to ubuntu from many years of opensuse dev and use, long before all this novel cruft )
<Burgundavia> I respect that, but recognize the commercial realities outside our little Linux bubble\
<imbrandon> i see them, thats why i have such a hard time sometimes
<imbrandon> specialy since i have some great personal friends that actualy work for novel
<imbrandon> but it still sucks
<somerville32> I have a question :)
<imbrandon> somerville32: shoot
<somerville32> imbrandon: Could you explain the restrictions on backports to me? The wiki page is kind of fuzzy :)
<Burgundavia> oh, I agree not having a first tier vendor support Ubuntu sucks
<Burgundavia> but lets work towards that, and currently the route to that involves SLED
<imbrandon> somerville32: basicly if it can be build in a pbuilder with no source changes and no other libs etc are needed to be backported its good
<imbrandon> but its on a case by case somerville32 mostly
<somerville32> Well, there is a bug that would be fixed by backporting curl from feisty to edgy
<imbrandon> somerville32: well can it be fixed with a small sru ? that would be the "best" way, if not then a backport can be done
<somerville32> I'm not familiar with the meaning of sru.
<imbrandon> sru == small patch , backport if it requires a new version to fix
<somerville32> Ah, yeah
<imbrandon> stable release update
<somerville32> It can be fixed with a small patch
<StevenK> It also depends on how serious the bug is.
<imbrandon> then the sru route would be better as -updates is enabled by default and everyone would get the fix
<imbrandon> StevenK: right
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: true, i dont like that fact but your right
<imbrandon> hrm i might call the system76 guys tomarrow, their is a system thats close to what i want
<imbrandon> *thinks*
<imbrandon> ohhhhhhh StevenK they have it
<imbrandon> a dual proc, dual core system
<imbrandon> ok Burgundavia you sold me, system76 it is
<imbrandon> :)
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, remember to ask for carl or... um.. ask for carl :)
<crimsun> funman: Ubuntu doesn't include an explicit vlc-dbg because Debian doesn't  [http://packages.qa.debian.org/v/vlc.html ] 
<funman> hm so i must talk with debian maintainer ;)
<crimsun> funman: on the other hand, there are debug debs generated for Ubuntu [http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/ ] 
<funman> crimsun: will ubuntu follow debian if they do it ?
<funman> hmm nice
<crimsun> funman: yes, Ubuntu picks up Debian changes
<Adri2000> does anyone here know how to make a program that use the gnome systray re-appear in the systray after a gnome-panel crash or a killall gnome-panel? I believe that I saw something like that in a changelog somewhere recently, but I can't remember exactly
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> heya \sh
<Laibsch> May I direct your attention to https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/71561 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71561 in Ubuntu "RFP: hpodder" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Laibsch> An easy import from upstream.
<StevenK>    hpodder |      0.5.8 | feisty/universe | source, amd64
<StevenK> Laibsch: This means it's been imported into feisty. 
<Laibsch> Already?
<Laibsch> Above line is the output of what command?
<StevenK> madison-lite, it tells me what versions of what packages are in which releases of Ubuntu.
<Laibsch> Some of that info seems to be available from http://packages.ubuntu.com/hpodder as well.
<Laibsch> But the package seems to have been only compiled for 64bit.
<Laibsch> I cannot see who did the upload, though.
<StevenK> Yes, I'm preparing an upload to fix it for i386 now.
<StevenK> The reason you can't is because it was just imported directly into Ubuntu by one of the archive people.
<Laibsch> Thank you.  Glad to see this is being worked on.
<Laibsch> Will you close the bug report afterwards?  Will this eventually make it into edgy?
<StevenK> Laibsch: I was planning on. No, it won't, since Edgy is released.
<Laibsch> OK
<fernando> moin all
<highvoltage> morning fernando 
<somerville32> I need some help
<highvoltage> oh no. now I'm going to have an ABBA song stuck in my head :(
<somerville32> debuild keeps rejecting my changelog
<somerville32> http://pastebin.ca/259335
<Adri2000> somerville32: try to reduce the number of characters of the line "* lib/multi.c: ..."
<imbrandon> for one its over 80 chars long, two we need the error
<somerville32> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at changelog line 3
<Adri2000> that's it
<Adri2000> shouldn't be more than 80 characters per line
<imbrandon> e.g. more than 80 chars long ( that is in the package guide iirc ) :)
<somerville32> I changed it but still isn't working
<imbrandon> and its two white spaces then * ?
<imbrandon> how did you make the changelog entry ?
<imbrandon> dch -i ?
<somerville32> dch -v7.15.4-1ubuntu2.1 -Dedgy-proposed
<imbrandon> ahh no you only have one whitespace
<imbrandon> you need two before the *
<somerville32> lol
<imbrandon> lol?
<somerville32> Fixed! :)
<imbrandon> :)
* somerville32 dies from tiredness.
<somerville32> Oh no
<somerville32> I have a pgp error :(
<somerville32> gpg: skipped "Cody A.W. Somerville <cody.somerville@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<Adri2000> somerville32: use debuild -k<gpg_key_id>
<somerville32> I was told to use debuild -S
<somerville32> Just append -k ?
<Adri2000> also -k
<Adri2000> debuild -S -kGPGID
<somerville32> How can I get the GPGID?
<imbrandon> gpg --list-keys
* somerville32 nods.
<imbrandon> but you should make sure the changelog entry matches your key
<imbrandon> otherwise it will still be rejected on upload
<somerville32> Is it safe to paste output of gpg --list-kets ?
<somerville32> *keys
<imbrandon> as long as you have no other options yes, it should be safe ( dont do it in here though )
<imbrandon> brb shower time and must get ready for work
<somerville32> It still says my secret key is unavailable.
<somerville32> :/
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: do you have a moment to help somerville32 with his debsigning issues ? i have to run for a while
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> should do, what's the problem?
<imbrandon> thanks /me heads out for a few
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> I got it :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: only if you fix python-pt4 when you get back.
<somerville32> :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: s/pt/qt/
<Hobbsee> eys
<Hobbsee> *yes
<somerville32> How does one test their debdiff?
<Hobbsee> test their debdiff?
<Hobbsee> well, a debdiff is just a specialised form of patch, so you can just patch -p1 < debdiff if you want
<somerville32> Will someone take a peak at https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/curl/+bug/73447 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73447 in curl "SRU Request to fix Curl Segfault" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<dholbach> imbrandon: tell me when you sent that mail
<dholbach> imbrandon: thanks - I'm off for lunch now
<imbrandon> dholbach: sending right now, then detaching to get ready to leave
<imbrandon> have fun yall, see ya about 1900
<somerville32> I'm going to bed.
* somerville32 waves.
<imbrandon> dholbach: mail sent <detaches>
<Vollstrecker> Anyone here that can help me with this: http://forum.amule.org/thread.php?threadid=11561&sid= ?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<xerxas> can I try to package hamachi for ubuntu or the license don't permit it ? 
<Hobbsee> xerxas: what's the licence?
<xerxas> hobbsee: it's a freeware 
<xerxas> but the code source isn't given 
<\sh> does anybody has problems with pbuilder and setting --configfile?
<Hobbsee> \sh: i use pdebuild --use-pdebuild-internal --configfile /pbuilder/feisty/pbuilderrc
<Hobbsee> that seems to be the syntax
<xerxas> hobbsee: in what repo opera and realplayer are ? 
<siretart> xerxas: if the license explicitly allows unrestricted redistribution, we can consider shipping it in multiverse. In general, we prefer working on free software, with free as free in speech
<xerxas> siretart, ok 
<xerxas> in multiverse there are not only open source softwares ? 
* StevenK twitches.
<\sh> I use the script of /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh with some adjustments, e.g. --configfile $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/pbuilderrc \ --aptconfdir $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/apt.config/ but it doesn't copy apt.config/* from the aptconfdir but from /etc/pbuilder/apt.config which is the default stuff from the system
<siretart> xerxas: we ship e.g. acroread in multiverse, for which no sourcecode is available.
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~/ubuntu/about% bzr push
<StevenK> Using saved location: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stevenk/about-window/dev
<StevenK> -2 revision(s) pushed.
<StevenK> -2!?
<siretart> StevenK: known bug
<StevenK> Fair enough.
<xerxas> siretart, hobbsee, at least, they don't allow to redistribute if they're not asked 
<Hobbsee> \sh: give me a sec
<xerxas> can I ask them the right to distribute it in ubuntu ? 
<siretart> xerxas: you need to ask both them as well as the ubuntu ftpmasters
<Hobbsee> \sh: what'd you save that script as?  presumably you're following the multiple pbuilders in !pbuilder or something?
<Hobbsee> \sh: and i'd check what you've got the base dir set at - if that's correct, i guess
<\sh> base dir is always set to $HOME/pbuilder
<\sh> aptconfdir would be $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/apt.config (which is there)
<Hobbsee> \sh: also, remove the /etc/pbuilderrc and /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc, iirc
<Hobbsee> \sh: 
<\sh> and configfile is set to $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/pbuilderrc ;)
<Hobbsee> yes, that's what i figured
<Hobbsee> \sh: where is your script saved?  the modification of pbuilder-distribution.sh?
<StevenK> I figured the easiest away around this was a wrapper script.
<StevenK> Much less pain.
<StevenK> s/away/way/
<\sh> Hobbsee: ~/bin/pbuilder-feisty e.g.
<Hobbsee> hrm
* Hobbsee doesnt know, but saves hers in /usr/local/bin
<Hobbsee> (and has it all work)
<StevenK> Where in the $PATH it is makes no difference.
<\sh> it doesn't even catch the --configfile option 
<\sh> dapper that is, with debootstrap of feisty installed
<StevenK> \sh: Can you pastebin the a sh -x run of the script?
<StevenK> s/the //
* StevenK sighs at his lack of typing skills tonight.
<\sh> StevenK: fck spaces behind \ :(
<\sh> on the command line .. --blabla blubb \  \n doesn't work :(
<StevenK> It ought to.
<StevenK> 'ls \ \n -l' works for me, for instance.
<\sh> strange...
<StevenK> \sh: Agreed.
<dholbach> imbrandon: there's no .odt attached in the mail, but I'll go from the wiki page
<dholbach> fernando: you can upload to REVU and get it approved and sponsored to universe
<fernando> dholbach: it already on REVU, thanks =)
<dholbach> fernando: did the package get reviewed and approved?
<stgraber> dholbach: About REVU, how often is it checked ?
<dholbach> stgraber: the people who check it are volunteers
<dholbach> stgraber: and it's a manual process, so I can't give you a number for that
<fernando> dholbach: already reviewed, i have upgraded and waiting approval
<dholbach> ah nice
<dholbach> fernando: did it get two "ok"?
<stgraber> dholbach: I thought so, as soon as it's checked before Feisty I'm happy :) thx for the answer
<dholbach> cool
<fernando> dholbach: no, this don't have priority, don't worry
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i think i'm going crazy
<dholbach> Hobbsee: why?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm thinking about just going thru revu and reviewing all the packages, which will make people quiet for a while...and will tell us who's active and who isnt
<Hobbsee> dholbach: speaking of which, why dont we get email notifications from when someone has commented on our packages on revu?
<dholbach> I'm going to write up the code-review spec tonight
<dholbach> Hobbsee: they went to a special mailing list
<Hobbsee> ahh
<dholbach> on tauware.de
<Hobbsee> ah
* Hobbsee pokes Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> wait, ignore that
* Hobbsee notes that REVU hates her
* dholbach hugs hobbsee
<Hobbsee> oh wait, here it is.
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<Hobbsee> ooh, way cool.  it works *totally* different to the way i expected!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: is the maintainer of a package the ubuntu person, or hte upstream person?  i think i've confused myself
<dholbach> in debian/control?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> the respective package maintainer
<Hobbsee> which is....the ubuntu guy, presumably
<Hobbsee> the guy who's actually maintaining the package?
<geser> Hobbsee: the person creating the package (not the software)
<Hobbsee> right
<joejaxx> Good <Insert Time Of Day Here> Everyone
<Hobbsee> hey joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<\sh> hey barry
<bddebian> Hi Stephan, how are you?
<\sh> bddebian: working as usual :)
<bddebian> Yeah, I hear that :-)
<\sh> bddebian: but fine :)
<joejaxx> hello bddebian \sh 
<joejaxx> today is a slow day
<bddebian> Heh, hi joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello
<joejaxx> trying to do some debugging today :)
<joejaxx> dpkg-divert --remove is being a pain :)
<giskard> imbrandon, news about beryl?
<giskard> imbrandon,  fabo, hello ;)
<Hobbsee> giskard: he was afk, last i knew
<giskard> Hobbsee, oki, thank you
<Hobbsee> dholbach: knocked some of the packages off.
<dholbach> ROCK
<Hobbsee> dholbach: if we coudl get a list of what's already in the archives, and on REVU, thatd' be helpful.  like a compare versions or something
<Hobbsee> dholbach: people seem to like uploading to there instead of doing debdiffs and attaching them to bugs, unfortuantely
<dholbach> ngngng
<Hobbsee> hrm?
<dholbach> the 'code-review' spec, I'm going to write up tomorrow suggests to use bzr on launchpad for revuing
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<dholbach> I'm happy to hear comments on that
<dholbach> I just need to prepare the packaging 101 session now
<Hobbsee> havent seen it
<Hobbsee> sounds good to me
* Hobbsee looks at her bed
<isaric> I have problem with dput -f *source.change I write : http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=77337&p=2 Can you help me ?
<Hobbsee> isaric: you can ignore that error
<isaric> but i don't see packtage on http://revu.tauware.de/
<Hobbsee> are you added to the tinyurl link in the topic, and has the keyring been synced?
<isaric> I confused /etc/dput.cf and ~/.dput.cf
<Gloubiboulga> raphink: hello Raphal, could you please sync the keyring on revu?
<Lathiat> hrm i tried to call redhat presales and after being bounced aroudn to 4 people with no clue i now have to await a call back tomorrow from some rep from my state (when im trying to get to someone technical, who she wont be)
<Lathiat> perhaps i should test drive canonical support :)
<zul> i think you have to buy canonical support first :)
<Lathiat> how can i buy if i have no pre-sales support to tell me i want to buy it? :)
<proppy> revu password recovering broken : http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=proppy@aminche.com got python traceback : Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"
<proppy> where should i fill a bug report ?
<raphink> Gloubiboulga: doing that
<proppy> full traceback here : http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/833941
<Gloubiboulga> raphink: merci ;)
<joejaxx> when you do pbuilder create does it use your already existing source list?
<joejaxx> at the time of the pbuild creation?
<joejaxx> or does it use the default sourcelist that comes with any fresh debootstrap environment
<Hobbsee> the latter
<joejaxx> ahhh no wonder
<luisbg> Hobbsee, really?
<Hobbsee> luisbg: yes, unless you tell it otherwise.
<joejaxx> so it does not have universe in the sources
<Hobbsee> correct, unless you set in your pbuilderrc
<joejaxx> which is why things that require universe packages do not build
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: thank you very much Hobbsee :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> hrhr
<luisbg> joejaxx, libjack isn't in universe?
<joejaxx> feisty (libdevel): JACK Audio Connection Kit (development files) [universe]  
<luisbg> wow!
<joejaxx> yeap
<luisbg> then how can we use universe in pbuilder to build/test a packge
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: do you have an example of a pbuilderrc?
<joejaxx> luisbg: she said you have to specify it to use universe :)
<Hobbsee>  /usr/doc/pbuilder/examples or something does
<joejaxx> luisbg: in the pbuilderrc file
<Hobbsee> so does !pbuilder
<joejaxx> ok
<dholbach> Packaging 101 session in 12m in #ubuntu-classroom
<joejaxx> i will look in doc
<proppy> there is pbuider --aptconfdir options too, (just read it from the man)
<proppy> i never tested it thought :|
<luisbg> proppy, let me see
<proppy> btw, i just uploaded a new package to revu with dput, i wonder what is the next step ?
<proppy> as it is my first one :)
<stgraber> next step = wait :)
<luisbg> joejaxx, it is /usr/share/docs...
<proppy> stgraber: ok that one is hard :)
<joejaxx> luisbg: i know
<joejaxx> :)
<stgraber> proppy: yes, really :)
<luisbg> dholbach, what's the class on? 
<joejaxx> she accidentally left out the share
<luisbg> joejaxx, cool cool, just saying
<dholbach> luisbg: bits of this and bits of that
<dholbach> but just bits, it's just an hour
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: it being almost 4am, i'm not suprised.
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: i guessed.
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is quite alright
<joejaxx> i knew what you meant :)
<proppy> stgraber: should i Ctrl+R mozilla on revu, every 5 of every 10 minutes :) ?
<Hobbsee> and being in *classroom* etc
<stgraber> proppy: For my part that's more days :)
<proppy> stgraber: thx
* proppy hugs stgraber
<luisbg> can get the pbuilder to use universe to build a package
<luisbg> any more detailed help
<Adri2000> luisbg: you can specify which repo to use in the pbuilerrc
<luisbg> Adri2000, the how is my question
<Adri2000> luisbg: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<luisbg> may I have the full command, don't know where to place that exactly
<Adri2000> luisbg: I think you should be already a COMPONENTS line in ~/.puilderrc
<geser> echo "COMPONENTS=\"main restricted universe multiverse\"" >> ~/.pbuilderrc
<Adri2000> s/you/there/
<luisbg> thanks a lot =)
<plerk> hello?
<plerk> is imbrandon here?
<xhaker> dholbach, i have some questions for you about packaging
<dholbach> please mail
<dholbach> dholbach at ubuntu dot com
<dholbach> I'm going to be off for a bit now
<xhaker> ;)
<dholbach> or ask on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> thanks for your good questions
<xhaker> ok
<xhaker> i thought they would serve others too
<xhaker> :P
<Adri2000> xhaker: you can ask anyway here
<Adri2000> !seen Fujitsu
<ubotu> I last saw Fujitsu (n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu) 4h 57s ago, quiting: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<xhaker> Adri2000, ;)
* proppy hugs dholbach
<xhaker> 1. Where to install a gnome applet? should i look in other packages for direction?
<xhaker> 2. Does it matter if the applet is written in python
<xhaker> i mean.. should it go to another place because of that?
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<Adri2000> xhaker: I packaged one gnome applet written in python, you can look, it is in universe since edgy: apt-get source giplet
<Adri2000> xhaker: this one has a Makefile and everything from upstream
<xhaker> Adri2000,  Do you happen to know if it's necessary to include the license in every python file?
<Sp4rKy> hi there
<xhaker> hi Sp4rKy 
<Adri2000> xhaker: yes, if you release a file under the gpl you have to include a header in the file, but this work is not in the packager side
<xhaker> i happen to be the developer too
<xhaker> i have a problem in that area.. is it possible for it to have two copyright holders listed?
<Adri2000> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
<Adri2000> assuming you want to use gpl of course
<Adri2000> and yes, it's possible to have more than one copyright holder, look at the AUTHORS file of some important projects ;)
<xhaker> i meant on the python file
<xhaker> at the license on the header
<xhaker> it looks funky
<xhaker> lol
<somerville32> Where is apt.config?
<Adri2000> xhaker: look at gaim, in fact AUTHORS seems to be for the main developers, and the COPYRIGHT file contains all the people who contributed to gaim (from a one line patch to big contributions) and the header in each source file says:
<Adri2000>  * Gaim is the legal property of its developers, whose names are too numerous
<Adri2000>  * to list here.  Please refer to the COPYRIGHT file distributed with this
<Adri2000>  * source distribution.
<xhaker> simple
<somerville32> Where is apt.config? :)
<Adri2000> xhaker: so it depends if you have enough space to write all the copyright holders, if not use a separate file :)
<Adri2000> somerville32: locate? apt-file search?
<somerville32> I tried
<somerville32> But I just installed pbuilder
<somerville32> I doubt the locate db would have it
<Adri2000> somerville32: and apt-file?
<somerville32> I don't have apt-file installed
<somerville32> ?
<somerville32> :] 
* somerville32 installs.
<phanatic> could anybody please have a look at this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3413
<Adri2000> phanatic: debian/dirs seems useless
<somerville32> Adri2000: No luck
<somerville32> OH!!!!
<somerville32> apt.config is a directory!
<phanatic> Admiral_Chicago: indeed :)
<phanatic> oh sorry
<phanatic> Adri2000: ^
<Adri2000> :)
<phanatic> just forgot to rm it
<phanatic> i'll reupload if you have no more comments :)
<Adri2000> phanatic: Standards-Version is now 3.7.2.2
<phanatic> Adri2000: good to know...
<Adri2000> phanatic: but well, I'm not sure it's really important, .2 is probably only small changes
<phanatic> Adri2000: i've bumped it anyway :)
<phanatic> Adri2000: thanks for your comments, i've upload it again - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3554
<LaserJock> hehe, I think sabdfl is going to have a busy week :-)
<zul> probably
* somerville32 proposes creating #ubuntu-sabdfl to aggregate all the sabdfl discussion, haha 
<Adri2000> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553 < anyone? :)
<phanatic> Adri2000: seems okay to me
<phanatic> i could comment on it, but i'm not allowed to give +1 :(
<Adri2000> yeah that's bad, I think non-motu should be allowed to comment
<LaserJock> you can get a motu to post a comment
<LaserJock> it's just hard if you have people giving bad advice
<phanatic> Adri2000: i was given the right to comment on other people's uploads, but i cannot advocate it, since i'm not a motu
<Adri2000> phanatic: ah? you can comment?
<LaserJock> phanatic: I thought you were a MOTU
<phanatic> Adri2000: yep
<phanatic> LaserJock: many people think, but still not applied
<LaserJock> Adri2000: yes, we give reviewing rights to a few non-MOTUs that have proved they know wha they are doing
<Adri2000> ok, I didn't know, LaserJock if you think it's ok for me, I would be happy to help
<LaserJock> Adri2000: well I'm not a REVU admin so I don't have any say :-)
<ajmitch> morning all
<LaserJock> ajmitch: morning
<Adri2000> eh, looking for a revu admin? :p hi ajmitch
* ajmitch wonders what interesting stuff he's missed in the open week
<LaserJock> sabdfl talking about binary-only drivers and FLOSS
<LaserJock> not much
<ajmitch> ah
<fdoving> Adri2000: you might consider using 'install' instead of 'cp' to copy the homebank.svg, it's not important, but i prefer using install, then i can set the mode of the file too.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: the logs are at the normal place
<LaserJock> ajmitch: there's around 300 or so people in the channel
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I know, and I have scrollback in irssi
<LaserJock> ah, I didn't know you were in the channel
<ajmitch> have been for a few days
<ajmitch> so have you given your talk?
<ajmitch> or is that one in 90min?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> brandon is up first
<whiprush> go LaserJock!
<LaserJock> yikes
<LaserJock> after watching Jono's I'm a little nervous
<ajmitch> I thought brandon was meant to have his earlier
<whiprush> I am learning a lot so far
<whiprush> like about dpkg-genbuilddeps(!)
<LaserJock> he is right before me
<ajmitch> ah no, dholbach took the packaging 101
<Adri2000> fdoving: ok, I will think about it next time, but for homebank I just checked and the .desktop has the right permissions/owner
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> brandon's doing Kubuntu
* ajmitch is nowhere near the superstar level to do talks
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> ajmitch: want mine? :-)
<ajmitch> I'm not worthy
<LaserJock> whatever
<LaserJock> much more worthy than I
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> I'm also at work :)
<LaserJock> me too
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> so there's no way I can do an hour-long talk on irc
<LaserJock> lunch break
<ajmitch> maybe I could fill in the slot after pitti on thursday if I'm needed
<ajmitch> but I'd have nothing to talk about :)
<LaserJock> "The MOTU Horror Stories" by ajmitch 
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> "The horrors of 3rd party packages & scripts"
<LaserJock> "Zope Packaging for the Rest of Us"
<somerville32> Ajmitch: Want session are you doin?
<ajmitch> somerville32: nothing, I'm just a lowly MOTU contributor :)
<ajmitch> so I just hack away at packages, not give talks to hundreds of people
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> I'm not a superstar but I'm doing the Xubuntu session
<somerville32> :] 
<ajmitch> by that you must be a superstar
<Adri2000> ajmitch: could you consider allowing me to post comments on revu?
<ajmitch> it's not just up to me to allow people to review stuff
* ajmitch doesn't know you that well, for example
<Adri2000> I understand
<ajmitch> I'll check with others, like crimsun 
<somerville32> Crimsun is such a nice guy :)
<Adri2000> crimsun uploaded two of my merges
<PriceChild> Anyone free to check out my latest upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3556
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I need your brain for a sec
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how many packages in Main and Universe Ubuntu actually changes from Debian
* ajmitch hands it over
<ajmitch> be careful with it
<LaserJock> so I grep'd the sources file for ubuntu versions
<LaserJock> for Edgy Main I got 978 out of 5382
<Adri2000> PriceChild: the last Standards-version is 3.7.2.2
<LaserJock> and for Universe I got 1250 out of 18656
<ajmitch> Adri2000: use 3.7.2, not 3.7.2.2
<Adri2000> why?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do those numbers seem right?
<ajmitch> because the last .2 is typographical changes only
<PriceChild> So i'm good to keep it at 3.7.2
<ajmitch> LaserJock: they seem vaguely right, there are the stats on MoM but they don't have numbers
<Adri2000> ajmitch: yes, but I thought the best was to use the last version...
<ajmitch> Adri2000: and 3.7.2 is the last version that matters
<Adri2000> ok
<ajmitch> "Thus only the first three components of the policy version are significant in the Standards-Version control field"
<Adri2000> where did you find that?
<ajmitch> you can have the full version, but it's not needed
<ajmitch> debian policy
<Adri2000> ok
<PriceChild> thanks for looking Adri2000 :) Anything else?
<Adri2000> PriceChild: there is a "," unneeded at the end of the Build-Depends line ;) also you can add one more blank character before HomePage (long description) to make it appear such as here http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/sound/djplay
<PriceChild> Ok thanks
<PriceChild> that's fixed and uploaded
<Adri2000> PriceChild: good, but your editor created debian/control.save
<PriceChild> argh
* PriceChild shoots nano
<PriceChild> should have checked that :(
<Adri2000> err nano
<PriceChild> lol :P
<PriceChild> can never get used to vi
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nervous yet?
<LaserJock> ummm
<LaserJock> do I have to answer that
<PriceChild> I'm taking it that's a comment about me? :s
<ajmitch> LaserJock: of course
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we all look up to you :)
<crimsun> yeah, if LaserJock's nervous, I'm screwede
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> morning lifeless 
<LaserJock> crimsun: heck no
<sladen> ademan: wire-sniffing.  The same way as Samba
<giskard> hello ajmitch LaserJock 
<ajmitch> hi giskard 
<LaserJock> hi giskard 
<ajmitch> I see imbrandon is up now
<ajmitch> just managed to read through all the scrollback for -classroom
<giskard> yeah, i need him ;)
<ajmitch> for beryl crack
<giskard> crack?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> it's insanity all packaged up together
<giskard> ehehe :)
<giskard> imbrandon, you should really blog about beryl ;)
<ajmitch> we shouldn't distract him from his kde pimping :)
<stgraber> Adri2000: If you have some time, can you also have a look at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3559 please
<Adri2000> stgraber: why is it a native package?
<LaserJock> what chaos
* stgraber is re-reading the howto :)
<stgraber> I should have done something wrong ...
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: the Kubuntu feeding frenzy
<Adri2000> stgraber: the version should be 0.5-0ubuntu1 I think
<stgraber> Adri2000: I'm the writer of the software as well as the packager, but that's not a reason to have a native package I think.
<Adri2000> yep, it isn't
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that's nothing compared to the next session
<LaserJock> bah
* Adri2000 just found another FTBFS :(
<stgraber> Adri2000: Anything else to do except renaming the directory ? (and change the format of the entry in the changelog)
<Adri2000> stgraber: then check that it actually creates a diff.gz
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not like the frenzy of 99 comments on sabdfl's invitation blogpost
<stgraber> Adri2000: it doesn't :(
<Adri2000> stgraber: make sure that you have changed the version in every files
<Adri2000> stgraber: hmm, the version should be only in the changelog, so is there an error when you run debuild?
<LaserJock> also make sure there is an .orig.tar.gz file
* ajmitch refrains from trolling in the kubuntu session
<ajmitch> as fun as it would be
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> I'll leave my heckling till the next session
<LaserJock> :(
<crimsun> oh, right. open week.
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> come & sit in the mortals gallery as the superstars talk
<LaserJock> I honestly don't really know what I'm supposed to talk about
<ajmitch> maintaining an ubuntu package?
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> bugs, updating the package from upstream, dealing with upstream, etc
<somerville32> Crimsun: I got that thing done. How long before they review my bug?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I'm just not sure how to do it in a way that's Open Week- friendly. I don't want to scare anybody ;-)
<crimsun> somerville32: do you want a realistic answer? I don't know.
<crimsun> both mdz and kamion are quite busy.
<somerville32> k
<Adri2000> please, a motu can check that in dosemu (multiverse), the ubuntu changes can be dropped and that I can request the sync
<ajmitch> you have filed the bug & subscribed u-u-s?
<Adri2000> ajmitch: me?
<ajmitch> yes, you
<Adri2000> if I'm not wrong it's a sync, why would I file a bug just to have an ack from a motu?
<ajmitch> because that's how you request a sync
<crimsun> because that's our workflow
<Adri2000> ajmitch: then I subscribe ubuntu-archive, not universe sponsors, I think it's really wasting time/... to file a bug just to have the ack to file another bug
<ajmitch> no you don't
<ajmitch> you file one bug
<Adri2000> with the sync request?
<ajmitch> a MOTU checks it, and then they subscribe ubuntu-archive
<ajmitch> yes
<Adri2000> ok
* ajmitch cheers for LaserJock 
<zul> muhahahha....its not my fault
<Adri2000> does the request sync script work with contrib/multiverse?
<ajmitch> if you have the right things in sources.list
<joejaxx> well i think i figured out dpkg-divert :D
<stgraber> Adri2000: It should be good now, can you check : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3560 when you have a minute please
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i am doing a test install of the packages on a feisty install
<joejaxx> i love vmware's nonpersistant hdd images
<joejaxx> everytime i boot up a vm
<joejaxx> it is a clean fresh install
<LaserJock> joejaxx: \o/
<stgraber> personally I use vmware to do some LTSP testing, having the server + 2 clients on the same computer is really useful :)
<joejaxx> stgraber: you do?
<joejaxx> when i try edubuntu on vmware
<joejaxx> the netboot clients freeze at one point
<Sp4rKy> please, if i want to upload an update for a package which was already add to universe
<joejaxx> when booting
<Sp4rKy> must i re dput it to REVU
<Sp4rKy> or is there another (faster) way
<somerville32> Do you think I could get an SRU approved to fix some memory leaks in xfce4?
<stgraber> I have an Edubuntu edgy installed and two LTSP server and I never had any problem
<joejaxx> stgraber: hmm
<joejaxx> stgraber: are you using nat or bridged?
<ajmitch> Sp4rKy: you make a debdiff, attach it to a bug in launchpad
<stgraber> one network card bridged to my real network card, and another connected to the host-only thing
<geser> Sp4rKy: create a debdiff, file a bug, attach the debdiff and subscribe the ubuntu-sponsors-team, wait
<stgraber> and all the LTSP client on the host-only
<joejaxx> stgraber: i will have to try that
<joejaxx> stgraber: ltsp is REALLY cool :)
<stgraber> yes :)
<Sp4rKy> geser: ajmitch k
<stgraber> hmm, and if someone made VmWare to work with IPV6 on a bridged connection, please tell me
<stgraber> here it gets the IP but I can't ping or do anything with it ...
<Adri2000> ajmitch: bug 73535
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73535 in dosemu "Please sync dosemu (multiverse) from unstable (contrib)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73535
<joejaxx> i wonder if wdm is broken in feisty
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ping
<joejaxx> fluxbox is not complaining 
<joejaxx> but wdm is
<LaserJock> maybe not now joejaxx, I'm a little busy ;-)
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> :)
* ajmitch is learning lots from LaserJock 
<Adri2000> what are the repos needed to make the sync script working?
<whiprush> LaserJock: that was a sweet session dude, congrats.
<Admiral_Chicago> if you install ubuntu-desktop, it doesn't check to see if mozilla-mplayer is installed, so totem-mozilla is installed as well, causing a conflict
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure if this is a bug i've just had, but it would be nice if ubuntu checked this
<giskard> uhhh! i've lost it
<giskard> stupid me
* ajmitch cheers for the raging MOTU-holic
<ajmitch> whiprush: dude!
<whiprush> hey
<ajmitch> what's up?
<Adri2000> who uses pitti's script for syncs?
<whiprush> ajmitch: just following the UOW.
<ajmitch> Adri2000: yeah
<whiprush> Alot newer people than I anticipated. I thought it was going to be a bunch of us old geezers.
<ajmitch> seems to have attracted quite a few people
<ajmitch> not just us geriatrics
<Adri2000> ajmitch: Exception: apt-cache madison does not contain tkcvs/8.0.3-3 but apt-cache madison actually contains it, I have the debian deb-src in my sources.list
<ajmitch> explain
<ajmitch> you just said it contains & does not contain
<Adri2000> no, the first was the error :p
<LaserJock> whiprush: well, sort of scattered
<LaserJock> not that good
<whiprush> it's irc, tends up ending that way
<Adri2000> ajmitch: and when I run apt-cache madison manually: tkcvs |    8.0.3-3 | http://ftp.fr.debian.org unstable/main Sources so it seems good to me
<whiprush> still for a first day I think it's gone over remarkably well
<whiprush> I was half expecting whining all day about drivers to be honest. :p
<ajmitch> Adri2000: ok, so what is the problem?
<Adri2000> the script aborts!
<Adri2000> Exception: apt-cache madison does not contain tkcvs/8.0.3-3
<Adri2000> and that's all
<ajmitch> because release is not the version
<ajmitch> but the target release
<ajmitch> like feisty, iirc
<LaserJock> whiprush: well, Mark showed up and did a little PR work earlier ;-)
<whiprush> yeah I was following along.
<whiprush> I tried to linkbot a few links to some people in -chat.
<Adri2000> ajmitch: ahhhhh, sorry
<whiprush> having a "back up" person in -chat seemed to help, like cjwatson was fielding the nitnoid questions in -chat while dholbach pushed the main discussion forward
<whiprush> that seemed to work rather well
<ajmitch> definitely
<ajmitch> now we get ready for the next round of rockstars tomorrow
<Adri2000> ajmitch: should I always add a comment explaining why the ubuntu changes can be overwritten?
<joejaxx> ahh
<joejaxx> ok the dpkg-divert works
<ajmitch> Adri2000: always necessary
<joejaxx> but 
<Adri2000> ok
<joejaxx> i have to fix the install file
<LaserJock> man, I've got the speaking high right now
<ajmitch> hehe
<LaserJock> phew
<LaserJock> I'm going to go get some lunch and something to drink
<whiprush> go celebrate.
<LaserJock> gotta get back to research though
<LaserJock> silly advisors wanting results, shesh :-)
<LaserJock> oh, and I get to blog today
<LaserJock> \o/
<ajmitch> man
<whiprush> blog about novell, microsoft, or drivers.
<whiprush> it's like a rule now
<LaserJock> my very first code contribution outside of Ubuntu got released today
<ajmitch> superstars
<ajmitch> LaserJock: something you wrote?
* ajmitch just can't keep up
<LaserJock> well, a rather small contribution
<LaserJock> to an existing app
<LaserJock> but still
<LaserJock> it was C++ even
<LaserJock> no fluffy Python for me ;-p
<ajmitch> ah right
* ajmitch contributed some minor changes to the nouveau driver yesterday
<whiprush> ajmitch: I saw that.
<ajmitch> now I will just get into it a bit deeper :)
<ajmitch> whiprush: really?
<whiprush> I was like "man I know that dude!"
<whiprush> yeah, gitweb rss feeds + google reader = fast catching up to your favorite projects.
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> what a fanboy ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<whiprush> I end up subscribed to whatever list all my hardware for all my machines runs. *shrug*
<whiprush> though I finally found a core2duo small form factor shuttle with intel graphics that I'm going to pick up.
<LaserJock> I just can't process that much info
<LaserJock> nice
<ajmitch> after seeing whiprush use google reader he got me onto it as well
<whiprush> it's all about the j key
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> I've used it a little bit
<LaserJock> but haven't figured out how to use it well
<LaserJock> Google simply rocks
<LaserJock> the organic chemisty down the hall use google calander to SMS them when they are up for instrument time
<LaserJock> s/chemistry/chemists/
<ajmitch> right, packaged up some libdrm snapshots, now I can play some more with destroying my computer
<ajmitch> it's not like any drivers I depend on actually use it :)
<whiprush> LaserJock: our U is subcontracting all mail to google.
<whiprush> which is probably scary, but free, *shrug*
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I used to
<LaserJock> but now I have laserjock.us
<LaserJock> so I send most mail there
<LaserJock> if gmail had better filtering (like filtering on an aribtrary header) I'd probably stick with it
<LaserJock> whiprush: trust me, you don't want me blogging about ms/novel, binary-only drivers, or opensuse mailings
<LaserJock> I'm not nearly qualified
<whiprush> hey, that doesn't seem to stop anyone else. :p
<LaserJock> sure, but I'd rather not blog about things I have no business blogging about
<_MMA_> :)
* ajmitch needs to blog about the motu superstars
<whiprush> ajmitch: like the imbrandon/laserjock one-two combination punch for first day goodness.
<crimsun> word, maybe I'll revive my LJ acct just for that
<ajmitch> whiprush: yeah
<sebest> Hello, i've some packages on revu.tauware.de, and i'd like to get them reviewed?
<LaserJock> I think it'd be good for us to do some more MOTU blogging
<LaserJock> it seems to be the way to communicate these days
<ajmitch> we don't want planet
<sebest> anyone could help me to review them?
<ajmitch> we have the whole universe
<LaserJock> ajmitch: planet universe? :-)
<crimsun> don't many MOTU blog anyhow?
<LaserJock> not really
<crimsun> it's just us mere mortals who don't.
<LaserJock> I think more MOTU superstars need to blog
<ajmitch> slaving away in the salt mines
<LaserJock> like crimsun, ajmitch, siretart, sistpoty
<crimsun> I've already got a blog.
<LaserJock> mr holbach
<whiprush> you guys could always just tell me when someone does something good and I can keep a tab and do it for you if you want.
<ajmitch> sebest: ok, for all of them but mod-mime-xattr, the version must have x.y.z-0ubuntu1, not x.y.z-1
<ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, I'm not in the superstar category
<LaserJock> sure you are
<ajmitch> I'm in the fanboy area
<whiprush> modest.
<LaserJock> annoying
<sebest> ajmitch: and except this point, everything looks goog?
<sebest> good?
<ajmitch> sebest: there's no way I can make that statement in 2 minutes :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<ajmitch> sebest: that was just the first problem I saw for them
<ajmitch> mod-mime-xattr is missing the orig.tar.gz, making it somewhat impossible to review
<sebest> maybe i must also change "unstable" ?
<sebest> in the changelog
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> ps-watcher has a massive diff with all the build cruft in it
<LaserJock> anybody see how many people were in #ubuntu-classroom when I did my session?
<ajmitch> nope
<LaserJock> I forgot to look
<ajmitch> sebest: various other changes like updating standards-version, cleaning up unnecessary commented out dh_* commands in debian/rules, etc
* ajmitch is heading out in a few minutes so can't do any sort of comprehensive review, just giving a few items that need fixed
<sebest> ajmitch:  thanx, i'll do these first fixes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I was too busy being amazed at your words
<ajmitch> and also busy with work
<ajmitch> innotop needs more stuff in debian/copyright, like the standard 3 paragraphs
<sebest> ajmitch: what is standards version about?
<ajmitch> the version of debian policy that the package claims to match
<ajmitch> latest is 3.7.2
<sebest> ajmitch: i use the mytop package as a basis
<sebest> so all of this apply also to mytop package
<ajmitch> doesn't mean they're right :)
<ajmitch> ok
<sebest> ok :)
<sebest> ajmitch: does bumping the standard-version is enought, or does it imply other changes?
<ajmitch> sebest: you should see the policy upgrading checklist
<ajmitch>  zless /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
<sebest> ajmitch: ok
<Lure> LaserJock: there were 310-330 people online...
<LaserJock> k, thanks
<ajmitch> so many fans..
<LaserJock> jono's blog said we started the day with 240
<LaserJock> so that's good that we didn't loose people
* ajmitch departs for awhile
<luisbg> there is a debian tweak for kdelibs4 that isn't in ubuntu, the dh-make in the /usr/share/doc/kdelibs4-dev to call it when using dh-make, why isn't this in ubuntu? http://wiki.debian.org/KdeDebBuild
<luisbg> how can I pass build flags to pbuilder?
<fabo> luisbg: the dh_make trick is outdated
<LaserJock> luisbg: man pbuilder
<luisbg> fabo, so what is the updated trick?
<crimsun> not sure why you would even bother with dh-make anyhow.
<luisbg> crimsun, because pbuilder doesn't find the Qt library
<fabo> luisbg: at least kdelibs4-dev ;)
<fabo> you want to package a pure Qt apps ?
<fabo> luisbg: or KDE ?
<luisbg> a qt app
<LaserJock> luisbg: passing pbuilder build flags isn't going to help
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-28
<luisbg> it just did
<luisbg> or maybe not
<luisbg> the problem is that pbuilder doesn't find the qt3 dir
<LaserJock> well, what I'm saying is if that gets uploaded it's going to break on the build machines
<luisbg> did
<luisbg> sudo pbuilder build --debbuildopts --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3 ../*dsc
<crimsun> no
<luisbg> LaserJock, true
<crimsun> --with-qt-dir=/usr/share/qt3 is a configure option
<crimsun> it belongs in debian/rules
<crimsun> you need to regenerate a fixed source package, then pbuild/sbuild it
<luisbg> crimsun, ok... that is going to take me some time (to learn how to do it)
<luisbg> and I have to cook dinner
<luisbg> will ask later on if I have any problem
<allee> how to trigger a rebuild for  bug 62699?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62699
<joejaxx> anyone have a good example of a install file?
<joejaxx> that has multiple path declaration method in it?
<sebest> is there something special to do , to have dput upload the orig.tar.gz ?
<LaserJock> sebest: use debuild -S -sa
* ajmitch returns from lunch
<allee> joejaxx: digikam has install files
<LaserJock> sebest: particularly the -sa part
<sebest> LaserJock: thanx
<joejaxx> allee: digikam?
<allee> joejaxx: you wanted an example and I checked debian/digikam.install just a few minutes ago ;)
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> i will source that then thanks
<allee> joejaxx: wait I paste ...
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> allee: thanks :)
<LaserJock> hehe, you want a serious .install file try ubuntu-docs
<joejaxx> lol
<allee> joejaxx: http://paste.debian.net/17406
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> allee: thanks
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i really need one from the single binary package
<joejaxx> one that uses a install file and not a packagenamehere.install
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter
<joejaxx> the format is different
<LaserJock> no
<joejaxx> example :
<joejaxx> #
<joejaxx> debian/tmp/usr/bin/digikam
<joejaxx> #
<joejaxx> debian/xpm.d/digikam.xpm usr/share/pixmaps/
<joejaxx> the first one is when you have multiple binaries according to docs i have read :(
<joejaxx> i do the second example on there now
<LaserJock> hmm
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok
<LaserJock> it's really easy though
<joejaxx> because i have a install file
<joejaxx> the atwork package's install file works
<joejaxx> but the default-settings package does not
<joejaxx> it does not copy the files
<joejaxx> which is why after it diverts the configs in the preinst of the d-s
<joejaxx> my configs are not in the directory
<joejaxx> because the install file does not work :(
<sebest> ajmitch: re , i implemented some fix to the package, the smallest to review are innotop and ps-watcher
<ajmitch> ok, I won't have time this afternoon to do much reviewing
<sebest> eaccelerator is a php5 module, and mod-mime-xattr an apache module
<ajmitch> the eaccelerator binary package is named php5-eaccelerator?
<sebest> ajmitch yes
<ajmitch> ok
* ajmitch had a brief look through the rules earlier
<ajmitch> I think there *may* be an option or two you should pass to phpize
<sebest> ajmitch: i don't see much option for it in the man
<sebest> only clean, help and version
<joejaxx> bah
<ajmitch> sebest: right, my memory may be fault then, hence why I said *may* :)
<sebest> ajmitch: no prob :)
<sebest> eaccelerator is quite popular these days for high volume websites
<ajmitch> yeah, I've heard of it a few times
<joejaxx> debian/tmp/usr/share/applications/kde/digikam.desktop
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> i wish some manpage were more informational
<joejaxx> manpages*
<joejaxx> that multiple binary install is not going to work :\
<joejaxx> hmm
<allee> joejaxx: digikam manpage or dh_* manpages?
<joejaxx> dh_* manpages
<pianoboy3333> Can you guys be sure to add the newest version of pynotify (python-notify) to feisty?
<pianoboy3333> http://www.galago.com/
<pianoboy3333> sorry
<pianoboy3333> http://www.galago-project.com/
<zul> meh..
<joejaxx> zul: do you know about install files?
<zul> kind of..
<joejaxx> zul: does this look weird to you?
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=279
<joejaxx> the top part is: install
<joejaxx> the bottom part is the file: dirs
<joejaxx> the problem is
<joejaxx> none of those files are installing
<joejaxx> or if anyone else wishes to take a look also
<joejaxx> that is the link
<zul> what if you run with dh_verbose or whatever it is called
<joejaxx> uh
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> there is not a dh_verbose on my system
<zul> do this in your debian/rules #export DH_VERBOSE=1
<joejaxx> ok
<zul> and uncomment it
<zul> back later
<engla> dragbox is ready for a real review I think
<engla> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3569
<joejaxx> ROFL
<joejaxx> I KNOW WHY
<joejaxx> it does not work
<joejaxx> sorry about the caps
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> wow
* joejaxx is getting old
<joejaxx> in debian/rules
<joejaxx> #dh_install
<joejaxx> haha
* joejaxx gives everyone permission to laugh
<joejaxx> lol
<zul> hah hah
<joejaxx> haha wow i feel doof as they say in german
<joejaxx> (stupid)
<joejaxx> i just spent the last two days
<joejaxx> trying to figure out why it was not working
<joejaxx> all because of the pound symbol
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ^ look at that LOL
<joejaxx> nope nevermind
<joejaxx> that does not work either
<LaserJock> sometimes you just have to take a little break
<LaserJock> and give it another look later
<LaserJock> :-)
<imbrandon> ello LaserJock 
<joejaxx> LaserJock: oh ok :)
<joejaxx> well bbl in 15 minutes
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon 
* Hobbsee pokes sivang 
<joejaxx> well i decided to come back 5 minutes early
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<joejaxx> time to start thinking again
<LaserJock> hi Hobbsee and zul 
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<zul> hey LaserJock 
<Hobbsee> hey LaserJock 
<ispiked> is this an appropriate place to ask how to build a apckage from source with applying patches to it?
<LaserJock> it could be :-)
<ispiked> I'm trying to apply a patch to wine and then build it using dpkg-buildpackage.
<LaserJock> ok
<ispiked> I've extracted the .orig.tar.gz file and applied all the patches to it.
<ispiked> but dpkg-buildpackage says it's using the orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz.
<LaserJock> what patches did you apply?
<ispiked> this one: http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2006-February/045115.html
<LaserJock> ok, how did you get the wine package?
<ispiked> apt-get source wine
<ispiked> and ebfore that I did apt-get build-dep wine
<LaserJock> ok, so apt-get source wine
<LaserJock> then what did you do
<ispiked> right.
<ispiked> I extracted the orig.tar.gz.
<LaserJock> why?
<ispiked> which made a wine-0.9.22 folder, which had files in it that I applied the patches to.
<ispiked> because you can't apply a patch to a tarball?
<ispiked> or can you?
<LaserJock> well, when you apt-get source it extracts the .orig.tar.gz and applies the diff.gz
<ispiked> oh.
<LaserJock> so you shouldn't have to be extracting anything
<joejaxx> dpkg-buildpackage: full upload; Debian-native package (full source is included)
<LaserJock> try removing that folder
<ispiked> how do I apply my (well, ben collins's) patch, though?
<joejaxx> oh goodie
<joejaxx> debian-native package
<LaserJock> and then doing dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<joejaxx> LaserJock: if i have create a package from scratch 
<ispiked> lemme start over.
<joejaxx> is it ok to mv package.tar.gz package.orig.tar.gz
<LaserJock> yeah
<joejaxx> after you debuild
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> well, hang on
<LaserJock> what package is this?
<joejaxx> my own
<LaserJock> and you don't want it native?
<joejaxx> it is the fluxbuntu-default-settings package
<joejaxx> v 0.1
<joejaxx> maybe i do not understand
<LaserJock> I think you want that one native
<ispiked> LaserJock: ok, I just apt-get source'd it again.
<ispiked> ls
<ispiked> err...
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> yeah,  ls it :-)
<LaserJock> joejaxx: or at least that would be an appropriate time to make it native
<ispiked> now my question is how do I apply ben collins's patch to it?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> ok, so you can go into the source directory
<LaserJock> and apply the patch
<ispiked> LaserJock: ok. done.
<ispiked> LaserJock: then dpkg-source -x it?
<ajmitch> typical, BenC's patch is poker-related
<ispiked> heh.
<LaserJock> ispiked: no
<LaserJock> ispiked: run debuild in that directory
<ispiked> LaserJock: is "debuild" an abbreviation for something?
<LaserJock> well, debuild is a wrapper around dpkg-buildpackage
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=280
<ispiked> I'm on edgy and I don't have that wrapper.
<LaserJock> ah, that's a part of the devscripts package
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what are you doing there?
<ispiked> so this is what I see: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ISEBNb38.html
<LaserJock> running dh_install and then doing a bunch of cp's?
<ispiked> will my patch be included in that build?
<joejaxx> that is it parsing the install file and copying the files to their respective locations
<joejaxx> during the pbuilder
<joejaxx> for some reason the files do not appear in the designated folders
<LaserJock> how are you checking that?
<LaserJock> ispiked: I believe so
<ispiked> LaserJock: I'm not so sure about that.
<ispiked> LaserJock: and I sort of want to be 100% that I have the patch so I know htat something else is to blame when it doesn't work.
<ispiked> I'll give it a go anyhow.
<LaserJock> well, you can diff to the original source package and see
<ispiked> that won't tell me what got built.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: after i install the package i go to the folders
<LaserJock> ispiked: it will tell you if your patch got in
<LaserJock> joejaxx: use dpkg -c on the package
<joejaxx> while it is installed?
<LaserJock> no, on the .deb
<ispiked> LaserJock: what exactly do you mean by the "original source package"?
<LaserJock> ispiked: mkdir tmp && cd tmp && apt-get source
<joejaxx> oh ok
<LaserJock> joejaxx: dpkg -c is your friend
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=281
<LaserJock> so those are the files being installed
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> are they going where you want?
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> good
<ispiked> LaserJock: I mean, I know for sure that the patch got applied to the wine-0.9.22 dir.
<ispiked> LaserJock: I am just wondering if dpkg-buildpackage is going to re-extract the tarball and overwrite those chagnes.
<LaserJock> no
* ispiked wonders how long wine takes to compile.
<LaserJock> joejaxx: so when you install the package they don't show up?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: nope
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'd check postinst
<joejaxx> instead of doing the diverts pre?
<LaserJock> well, check the maintainer scripts
<LaserJock> something's messed up
<LaserJock> because the files are in the .deb right
<LaserJock> so I'd extract the .deb
<LaserJock> and look at the control info
<LaserJock> darn, anybody know how to get a screenshot in Gnome that includes a menu?
<lotusleaf> ispiked: not long
<lotusleaf> ispiked: I built the latest wine earlier and walked a few ppl though it
<lotusleaf> through*
<xopher> LaserJock, take a delayed screenshot 
<ispiked> yikes, no space left on device!
<LaserJock> xopher: well, when I do that in gimp the menu shows up as black
<xopher> really? Ill try it
<xopher> nope, works fine here
<xopher> with gimp
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> hmmm
<xopher> I tried with gimp and the menu's showed fine
<LaserJock> slected window or whole screen?
<xopher> whole screen
<LaserJock> yeah, whole screen works
<LaserJock> selected window  doesn't
<xopher> great.. Oh well, good night
<joejaxx> LaserJock: could it be that the divertions are in the preinst so by the time the install comes anoud it blocks ?
<LaserJock> something like that perhaps
<LaserJock> have you looked at the maintainer scripts in the .deb?
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> i am switching the diverts from preinst to postinst
<LaserJock> can you do that?
<ispiked> it seeems like there should be a wiki page up on how to do this.
<ispiked> "this" being get a package from source, apply patches to it and build and install it.
<LaserJock> ispiked: the wiki is free for the editing :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, "you are free to edit the wiki" rather
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> changing it does not help
<joejaxx> LaserJock: it creates dirs .config and .fluxbox
<joejaxx> but with nothing in it
<joejaxx> bah
<joejaxx> what is wrong with this thing
<joejaxx> the funny thing is
<joejaxx> the artwork package installs fine and it is using a install file too
<joejaxx> but f-d-s wants to be subborn
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you want to look at this?
<LaserJock> are you really asking me?
<LaserJock> :-)
<joejaxx> well if you are not busy
<joejaxx> i just want to get these right
<joejaxx> i do not want crack*suffixhere in the same sentence of my packages when i upload them to revu
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> don't worry, they'll still be called crackful
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> this settings package is the last one i need to finish
<joejaxx> well i guess i learned how dpkg-divert works
<joejaxx> it is really nice
<joejaxx> maybe i could have a class on it
<minghua> dpkg-divert is a mine field from what I heard
<joejaxx> lol
* LaserJock thinks we should shut joejaxx in the closet
<joejaxx> well there are a whole bunch of them installed on ubuntu
<joejaxx> lol
<LaserJock> he's so crackful we can't risk it with the newbs
<LaserJock> ;-)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> yeah that is true i do not think we want everyone going around diverting stuff
<minghua> really, no kidding.  last time I heard, dpkg still can't deal with Replacing dpkg-diverted files correctly
<minghua> or something similar to that
<minghua> so I won't teach new packagers about dpkg-divert
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> well it was the only way to get the fluxbuntu packages into universe
<joejaxx> without me not submitting them and then keeping them in the current repository and rebuilding fluxbox, rox and wdm
<minghua> I am not saying you shouldn't use it.  I am just saying you shouldn't teach others about it unless you really know how it works and all the tricky places
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> in other words, keep your crack to yourself!
<minghua> for example, what if two packages try to dpkg-divert the same file?
<joejaxx> well in that case
<minghua> I am genuinely curious about that
<joejaxx> what do you mean by same time?
<joejaxx> ie
<joejaxx> one after another?
<minghua> no, not the same time
<joejaxx> like p1 tries to divert gcc
<minghua> just two package both having a dpkg-divert in postinst, for example
<joejaxx> then p2 tries to divert gcc?
<minghua> yeah
* joejaxx tries it
<LaserJock> that's the spirit
<LaserJock> break that machine!
<LaserJock> harder!
<joejaxx> they clash :D
<LaserJock> do you get an error?
<joejaxx> the first one whould get precedence
<joejaxx> and the second is too bad
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes
<joejaxx> it tell you they clash
<LaserJock> you'd think it'd be smart enough to move them to something like <file>.<packagename>
<minghua> I suppose you can specify --divert option to solve that
<LaserJock> and then at least which ever one was installed last would rule them all
<minghua> yeah, things start to depend on the order the two packages are installed
<minghua> and removing the divert correctly doesn't sound easy
<joejaxx> sudo dpkg-divert --remove --rename /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config
<joejaxx> does
<joejaxx> you have to add --package packagename also
<minghua> I was talking about two package diverting the same file (then remove either one of the diverts correctly)
<joejaxx> it will not happen
<joejaxx> they clash
<joejaxx> the second package divert whould be rejected
<minghua> well, the manpage said you can use different names with --divert option
<joejaxx> yes
<joejaxx> look
<minghua> not necessarily <original-name>.distrib
<joejaxx> sudo dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config 
<joejaxx> sudo dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.distro /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config
<joejaxx> dpkg-divert: `local diversion of /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config to /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.distro' clashes with `local diversion of /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config to /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real'
<minghua> that's two local diversions.  what happens if they are two package diversions instead?
<joejaxx> same thing
<joejaxx> it will complain
<minghua> okay then
<minghua> another reason dpkg-divert should be avoided if possible
<joejaxx> yeap
<joejaxx> on in specialized situations
<joejaxx> minghua: if you do dpkg-divert --list you can see how many there are on your system
<minghua> thanks, but I can read /usr/lib/dpkg/diversions just fine
<LaserJock> man, that is a few
<LaserJock> most of them are from module-init-tools
<joejaxx> anyone care for a dh_install excursion?
<LaserJock> a what?
<joejaxx> well trying to help me figure out why it does not copy the files
<LaserJock> I think it's fine
<LaserJock> the files are in the .deb
<LaserJock> right?
<ajmitch> alright, time for me to remove nvidia-glx & get into some serious testing :)
<LaserJock> whoa! ;-)
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yes they are
<joejaxx> but
<joejaxx> they are not being copied to the system
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you want the source?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: but I don't think that has anything to do with dh_install
<joejaxx> oh
<LaserJock> send me the .deb real quick
<joejaxx> then what could it be
<joejaxx> ok
<LaserJock> I said perhaps it is in the maintainer scripts
<LaserJock> as they are the ones manipulating the contents
<joejaxx> how do you want it sent?
<joejaxx> you want a wget line?
<LaserJock> sure
<joejaxx> wget http://archive.fluxbuntu.net/fluxbuntu/dists/feisty/main/binary-i386/fluxbuntu-default-settings_0.1_i386.deb
<ajmitch> ah crap
<ajmitch> W: udev hook script requires at least kernel version 2.6.19
<ajmitch> W: not generating requested initramfs for kernel 2.6.17-6.1-generic-xen0
<LaserJock> joejaxx: what files aren't working?
<ajmitch> that's going to make testing a bit difficult
<LaserJock> bummer
<ajmitch> yes, I didn't realise we had an incompatible udev already
<joejaxx> LaserJock: none of them are installed
<LaserJock> absolutely nothing?
<joejaxx> nope
<joejaxx> i checked the directories
<joejaxx> all the divert work fine
<joejaxx> diverts*
* ajmitch decides to test nouveau anyway
<LaserJock> joejaxx: are you sure you want to do it in preinst?
<LaserJock> s/do/don't/
<LaserJock> bah
<joejaxx> which one?
<joejaxx> i originally had it in preinst
<LaserJock> are you sure you don't want to do the diverts in preinst?
<ajmitch> alright...
<joejaxx> i will probably move them back to preinst
<ajmitch> dual-head broken as expected, wrong resolution, etc
<joejaxx> ajmitch: but atleast there is video
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> at least I still have a 1280x1024 desktop
<joejaxx> :)
<ajmitch> glxgears: ../common/drirenderbuffer.c:71: driNewRenderbuffer: Assertion `pitch > 0' failed.
<ajmitch> Aborted (core dumped)
<ajmitch> yay
* joejaxx celebrates
* ajmitch gets a different error this time
<joejaxx> yay
<joejaxx> debugging ftw
<ajmitch> I don't know why you're so happy
<LaserJock> he's gone mad
<LaserJock> the dpkg-divert crack got to him
<ajmitch> obviously
<ajmitch> I was hoping to see some stuff spinning on the screen
<ajmitch> but am running into interesting things with drm
<LaserJock> I read a blog post that said that Nvidia's license agreement forbids reverse engineering
<LaserJock> does that apply to this thing you're working on? I can't spell it yet
<ademan> hey i'm still trying to package that stupid eclipse-cdt, what i've done so far is apt-get source eclipse-cdt into a folder eclipse-cdt
<ademan> i've got the upstream tarball
<ademan> should i put it anywhere in particular when i do uupdate?
<ademan> do i need a gpg key before i do uupdate? (it complained about it before)
<erik1397> is ubuntu-es a bot?
<joejaxx> let us see
<ademan> so no one's done an upstream update for a package?
<joejaxx> erik1397: yeap
<erik1397> *(just checking)
<ademan> Laser_away: why did you have to leave as soon as i got back?
<crimsun> ademan: even MOTU superstars are allowed to have lives outside Ubuntu.
<minghua> hehe
<ademan> crimsun: would you humor me and try and help me with this stupid package?
<Laser_away> crimsun: yeah
<Laser_away> :-)
<ademan> actually i'm going to brb myself, but yeah, if you were here for my previous comments and questions, do you have anythign to say about them?
<ademan> the gpg and upstream tarball location questions
<ademan> and of course laser is back now...
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<crimsun> ademan: error spew is important
<ademan> crimsun: ok, so i guess the first thing i'm gonna do is run uupdate, i'll make a paste of what happens
<racarr> ajmitch: I hate to bug you about Revu again, but when I try and recover my password (new account) it just gives me a page/text file with instructions on decrypting my password, but nothing to decrypt
<ademan> crimsun: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/AB0N1P37.html   this is what i've done so far
<ademan> next i need to do a pbuilder build in the new package right?
<crimsun> and fix the changelog version
<minghua> racarr: I had the same problem the other day, so it's probably not only you
<ademan> crimsun: so just manually edit the changelog?
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/A7lfUl24.html  this is the current changelog, i'm curious as to where eclipse-cdt-0ubuntu1-1 came from, i just did eclipse-cdt-0ubuntu1 or is that what you were talking about?
<ademan> also should i change it to my real email? since that's just my hostname etc
<crimsun> ademan: see what you passed to -v
<ademan> crap
<ademan> netsplit?
<ademan> crimsun: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/A7lfUl24.html do i just manually edit the changelog to reflect eclipse-cdt-0ubuntu1 ?
<crimsun> presuming you meant 3.1.1-0ubuntu1, yes.
<racarr> minghua: I feel less stupid now, thanks
<racarr> minghua: I was worried I was missing something obvious
<ademan> crimsun: yeah, i did, my brain slipped
<ademan> so now i do a pbuilder build within the new package dir?
<ademan> hrm i have no dsc
<ademan> for the new package
<ademan> dpkg-buildpackage?
<ajmitch> racarr: sorry, it's been a recurring problem, I haven't looked at that bit 
<ajmitch> debuild -S -sa to get a source package, with a .dsc you can build with
<ademan> ajmitch: so it will gen a dsc for my newer package?
<ajmitch> yes
<ademan> should that be done from the new package's dir
<ademan> ?
<Laser_away> ajmitch: take a look at planet to see my awesome C++ skills ;-)
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/OH1rSk70.html  gee...
<ademan> that file exists in the parent directory... but its a symlink if that makes a difference
<racarr> ajmitch: No problem, it's not urgent as there are no comments on anything I've uploaded yet anyway
<ajmitch> Laser_away: awesome!
* ajmitch is trying to work out swtcl stuff in mesa at the moment :)
<crimsun> sheesh, you guys are doing deity-like stuff
<crimsun> I'm just squashing bugs
<ajmitch> haha
* ajmitch is not close to deity-level
<ajmitch> nowhere near people like crimsun 
<ademan> anyone? i'm sorry to pester like this but all my development is halted because of the stupid eclipse-cdt
<ajmitch> ademan: well what is the name of the file in the parent dir?
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> heya ajmitch
<ademan> ajmitch: eclipse-cdt_3.1.1-0ubuntu1.orig.tar.gz  and its looking for eclipse-cdt_3.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<ademan> oh
<ademan> yeah that's a problem...
<ademan> the things my brain just assumes
<racarr> Question: If I were to fix a bug in a universe package, not being a MOTU would the best course of action be to upload to REVU, or send it to a MOTU, send it to the person that uploaded the original package?
<dholbach> we have that answered on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<Hobbsee> racarr: get a debdiff that fixes the bug, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors for it
<ademan> ajmitch: how should i remedy that? make it look for the tarball that exists? or rename the tarball?
<dholbach> it's not necessary to send it to REVU
<ajmitch> ademan: look at the version it's expecting - no -0ubuntu1
<dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html
<ajmitch> rename the tarball
<dholbach> for the versioining scheme: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2577623
<ademan> ajmitch: ok
<racarr> Thanks
<ademan> ajmitch: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/fF31xx10.html   now gpg REALLY seems to be a problem
<ajmitch> ademan: and you have a key that matches that name/email address?
<ademan> ajmitch: not at all, how would i obtain one?
<ajmitch> you create one with gpg
<ajmitch> there'll be a howto somewhere on the wiki
<ajmitch> for now, you don't need it if it's not being uploaded to revu
<ademan> well i know at least 3 people need this update, so it hasta make it into the repositories somehow
<ademan> debdiff on launchpad though right?
<ademan> do i need the gpg key for that?
<minghua> you don't need a gpg key for generating debdiff
<minghua> just add "-us" to your dpkg-buildpackage/debuild command
<minghua> and it won't be signed
<minghua> (probably add "-uc" as well)
<ademan> k thanks
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/DreCjz49.html  left me with a warning (line 17 and 18) should i be worried/take action against them?
<ajmitch> ignore them
<ademan> alright
<ademan> now i need to pbuilder build?
<ajmitch> yes
<ademan> do i need to do it as root?
<ajmitch> yes, since it sets up a chroot
<minghua> yes.  although sudo works fine.
<racarr> Ok, so in regards to my earlier question I hunted up an easy bug just to make sure I had the right idea
<racarr> To close: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/73510 I could submit: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34504/ ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73510 in cupsys "Missing dependency for update-inetd" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
<racarr> err, signed of course 
<minghua> debdiff doesn't need to be signed
<ajmitch> racarr: you made the change against the edgy version (feisty has 1.27-1ubuntu1), and netbase should have update-inetd in /usr/sbin
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/Wq8bHy23.html  see now this is where i was before, line 45 and on are trouble
<ajmitch> ademan: ok, so you need to fix up the package - this is the fun part ;)
<racarr> Ah, I wasn't planning on actually submitting it as the bug was already assigned to someone so I presumed it was fixed, but a debdiff like that is the idea?
<ajmitch> racarr: yes
<racarr> ajmitch: Ok, thanks
<ademan> ajmitch: :-/
<ademan> should i be looking at debian/rules ?
<ajmitch> you should be looking at the tarball it's trying to unpack
<ajmitch> it looks like it's expecting a tarball-in-tarball to build with
<Nafallo> siretart: the link from REVU to the NEW Policy is outdated.
<Nafallo> siretart: hi btw :-)
<Nafallo> hi * even :-)
<racarr> If porting a debian package to ubuntu
<racarr> should I keep the changelog?
<racarr> All it has is initial release, but I thought it would be best to ask
<ajmitch> a package that is in debian already?
<racarr> Yes, but not in ubuntu and a neccesary step in fixing a bug
<Nafallo> could someone look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3570? :-)
<ajmitch> is it not in feisty?
<Nafallo> need two acks or so... :-)
<ajmitch> racarr: what is the package name?
<racarr> ajmitch: libofa0
<ajmitch>    libofa0 |    0.9.3-1 | http://apt-proxy feisty/universe Packages
<ajmitch> so it's already been imported automatically
<racarr> Ah, I was actually wondering why that wouldn't have happened, I guess it did
<ajmitch> Nafallo: try making the package for feisty please
<Nafallo> ajmitch: oops. right. small change before upload ofcourse :-)
<Nafallo> ajmitch: except that? :-)
<ajmitch> dunno, haven't had a good look
<ademan> ajmitch: i'm not sure what i'm looking for, i guess i need to create a dir source-tree within the package dir?
<ajmitch> the descriptions are a bit bare
<ajmitch> ademan: I don't know, not having seen the packaging
<siretart> Nafallo: hey there
<ajmitch> hello siretart 
<siretart> huhu ajmitch 
<siretart> Nafallo: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New better?
<Nafallo> ajmitch: yea, just based them on all the other themepackages :-)
<Nafallo> siretart: should be indeed. that's what I looked at anyway :-)
<siretart> fixed
<Nafallo> siretart: thanks :-)
<Burgundavia> !seen robotgeek
<ubotu> robotgeek is on IRC right now!
<ademan> ajmitch: does it cache debian/rules? because the changes i'm making (maybe i shouldnt be) arent being reflected AT ALL in what i see in the console
<ajmitch> ademan: pbuilder works on the orig.tar.gz + diff.gz
<ajmitch> which are only created when you do debuild -S
<ajmitch> (or dpkg-buildpackage -S)
<ademan> so i'd have to redo debuild?
<ademan> for the rules changes to apply
<ajmitch> yes
<ademan> is that a bad plan altogether? (modifying debian/rules)
<ajmitch> if you need to do it, then do so
<ajmitch> but I doubt it's what you need to do in this case
<ademan> hrm
<ademan> well i backed it up just in case
<Nafallo> hmm
* Nafallo goes to read the SRU-policy :-)
<Nafallo> ehrm
<Nafallo> not in CategoryMOTU? :-)
<ajmitch> it's a wiki, you can fix it
<Nafallo> yea. and I guess MOTU/Processes/SRU can be deleted? :-)
* ajmitch needs a spare monitor
<racarr> If I'm updating the upstream source of a package, submit it to Revu? or like a bug fix?
<ademan> ugh this is driving me nuts, i think i'm going to email the original packagers
<TheMuso> crimsun: subsumption of libxinerama-dev in qiv 2.0-6? I don't quite understand what you are ferring to.
<crimsun> TheMuso: bug #?
<TheMuso> Ubuntu Bug 73418
<TheMuso> https://launchpad.net/bugs/73418
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73418 in qiv "Request to sync qiv version 2.0-6 from Debian sid, main." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<crimsun> TheMuso: ah, right. There's an additional Ubuntu delta that was not mentioned, and it's the addition of libxinerama-dev as a b-d.
<crimsun> TheMuso: see 2.0-3ubuntu1 [http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/q/qiv/qiv_2.0-4ubuntu1/changelog ] 
<TheMuso> Ah right.
<TheMuso> RIghty.
<TheMuso> I'll edit it.
<crimsun> thanks :-)
<TheMuso> Done.
<crimsun> processed.
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<crimsun> np
<racarr> Err, how do I go about assigning the bug report to ubuntu sponsors for main?
<racarr> Nevermind
<crimsun> don't assign; subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<crimsun> else we'll chase you down with pointy sticks
<racarr> Right, that's what I did
<racarr> I feel that was somehow too easy, so I wonder what I screwed up (upstream source merge)
<ajmitch> of what package?
<racarr> libtunepimp
<racarr> Upstream source update was neccesary for fixing an amarok bug
<crimsun> racarr: err, did you check w/ j.rid*ell first?
* Burgundavia stirs the pot
<Burgundavia> please read the planet ubuntu
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: what now?
<ajmitch> oh dear
<racarr> Err, no, I just made a debdiff/bug and subscribed ubuntu main sponsors to it
<racarr> after reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/69863
* Fujitsu attacks Burgundavia with something...
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: you cannot refute my argument
<Fujitsu> Of course not.
<Burgundavia> everybody has been dancing around my first point, about gaining users
<Burgundavia> so I figured I would out and say it, as the resident troll
<Fujitsu> And for that I applaud you.
<Fujitsu> Nobody else seems to be doing that sort of thing.
<racarr> Nice post
<racarr> Did launchpad just die?
<Burgundavia> looks like it
<racarr> mmm it came back up and then back down, I guess that means it's time to go get a snack
<crimsun> racarr: he's listed as the most recent person to touch that source package. It's courteous to ask him first if you may adjust the source package.
<racarr> crimsun: Ah, I guess I should have thought of that
<crimsun> racarr: it's also stated on merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
<racarr> crimsun: Ah, I hadn't seen that before thanks
<crimsun> np
* mnepton floats past
<ajmitch> hello kurt
<crimsun> on a broom?
<racarr> Horribly new to packaging, but I've always used it as my excuse for not contributing, so trying to fix that and do a few administrative packaging things before getting in to anything meaty
<ajmitch> racarr: the patch you attached wasn't marked as a patch, so it appears horribly in the browser
<racarr> I noticed that immediately after I submitted it
<mnepton> ajmitch: heyas
<racarr> Should I reupload it?
<mnepton> crimsun: had to retire my broom. t'was giving me splinters.
<crimsun> mnepton: ah
<Burgundavia> hey mnepton
<mnepton> hey Corey
<mnepton> (you're with an "e" ja?)
<Burgundavia> ja
<Burgundavia> as seen on planet
<mnepton> in the middle of a convo with Cory Doctorow, so getting Cor(e)ys confused
<Burgundavia> ah
* Fujitsu grumbles at the large number of Google ads on ubuntuforums.org
<Burgundavia> when did those appear?
<Burgundavia> I don't see them and I don't have any sort of blocker on
<ajmitch> they don't appear all the time
<ajmitch> and only if you're logged out, I heard
<ajmitch> either way, they should have been removed by now
<Burgundavia> given they are on canonical hardware, that si a very much a no go
<mnepton> unless the money is being used to buy me a pony.
<ajmitch> mnepton: you'll have to wait in line
<Burgundavia> mnepton: you have Mark to buy you one, dammit
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: fedora forums are worse
* Fujitsu wonders who to attack to get them removed.
<mnepton> Fujitsu: please, don't.
<Burgundavia> they put the ad smack in the middle of the first post
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: email jono and ask him to politely talk to the appropriate people
<mnepton> already known about. already being dealt with.
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> it's been known, it was brought up at UDS as well
* ajmitch would think that negotiations with forum people could be delicate at times
* mnepton flails his claws in the air
<Fujitsu> `being dealt with'
<mnepton> danger will robinson!
<Fujitsu> Isn't it a simple matter of, you know, telling them to remove them?
<ajmitch> then they grab their ponies & go home
<Fujitsu> ...
* mnepton whinnies and flails his claws in the air, confusing metaphors and frightening children
<crimsun> (right, doesn't compute to me, either, but I wasn't present for the forum fiasco)
<Fujitsu> Sounds right, forums == fiasco ;/
<Fujitsu> *:/
<ajmitch> exactly
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: the forums souls are delicate, likely to tear their fragile wings if pulled too hard
<Fujitsu> Woops, I accidentally tore the forums apart. What a loss.
<elkbuntu> i believe poking jono would be a start
<Burgundavia> I am disappointed. No flames yet
<Burgundavia> my post has been up for over 15 minutes
<elkbuntu> he should hopefully then poke, iirc jane
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia,?
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: see planet
<mnepton> i believe poking jono about anything re: forums will only result in an angry jono
* Fujitsu continues to applaud Burgundavia on that post.
<Hobbsee> hey elkbuntu 
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: they are hurting, poor souls
<elkbuntu> mnepton, yes, but an angry jono on *our* side
<Fujitsu> elkbuntu: You sure he'd be on our side?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: forums or flames?
<elkbuntu> Fujitsu, yes
<ajmitch> forums
<racarr> It really was a great point Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> ah
<crimsun> (err, perhaps sides isn't the most delicate fashion of phrasing...)
<mnepton> elkbuntu: he already is. and knows about this stuff. an e-mail or other poke will only be the fly buzzing in his ear.
<Burgundavia> but I want to be flammmmed...
* Burgundavia pouts
* StevenK sets Burgundavia alight.
<StevenK> Now stop pouting
<mnepton> Burgundavia: you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.
<elkbuntu> mnepton, known issues ;)
<Burgundavia> mnepton: hmm, corpses can dress me now? is this Night of the Living Dead?
<racarr> The only difference is some users regard drivers as a lot harder to install than codecs regardless of actuality, and I'm pretty sure there are some monitor setups where the closed driver is required at least for nvidia (I just recall reading about it)
<tenshu> hi all ;)
* mnepton e-mails Jono and Corey's mom
<Fujitsu> Are the forum servers hosted in the datacentre?
<Burgundavia> yes
* Fujitsu ponders...
<Burgundavia> racarr: drivers are only more difficult to install because we have never put any effort into making them easy
<Fujitsu> Destroy the forums and the Ubuntu datacentre, or leave them both...
<mnepton> Burgundavia: if you think that an e-mail or two will help with forums issues, then yes, i would start looking for your departed mother, as the rules of time and space are apparently suspended. ;)
* Fujitsu flies over to wherever they're hosted, and obliterates said place.
<Burgundavia> london. Lousy city anyway :)
<Fujitsu> Hahah
<Fujitsu> London isn't bad!
<Fujitsu> (London, Ontario, that is)
<Fujitsu> Hehe
<Burgundavia> I am talking about the dirty one, not the tiny one
* mnepton checks the current topic of conversation
<mnepton> oh good. cities. not sisters.
* Burgundavia cleans mnepton's mind with pony hair
<Fujitsu> Poor  pony!
<Burgundavia> well, I need to sleep
<crimsun> you're scaring prospective MOTU!
<Burgundavia> crimsun: what, the pony?
<crimsun> that, too
* Fujitsu inflates himself and looks scary.
<Nafallo> ah, sleep. not sheep.
<StevenK> crimsun: If they weren't already scared, they ought to be.
<Nafallo> :-)
<crimsun> StevenK: true
* StevenK ponders doing some merges, and notes he has run out.
<StevenK> I wonder if Loic IRCs.
<ajmitch> which loic?
<ajmitch> pef?
<StevenK> Yu[
<StevenK> Yup
<ajmitch> haven't seen him on irc for quite awhile
<ajmitch> you want frozen bubble, don't you? ;)
<StevenK> I might. ;-)
<StevenK> I want to ... test it. Yes, that will do. :-P
<ajmitch> stop trying to interfere with our work!
* Fujitsu complains at the old-style bubbles in FB2
<ajmitch> you're trying to distract us all
<StevenK> ajmitch: :-P
<StevenK> I wish launchpad had an echelon thing like db.d.o
<Fujitsu> A common stress test for new computers at work is a half-hour network game of trackmania!
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Echelon? Isn't that the evil US phone monitoring thing?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: of course
<ajmitch> debian has tapped into it
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> deals with the US government are great
<realist> What makes you think it's restricted to the US?
<Fujitsu> realist: I meant it is/was run by the US.
<realist> It's a joint initiative with UK/US/AU
<ajmitch> realist: we know it's not, but the US are at the centre of the spiderweb
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ajmitch> and NZ
<Fujitsu> Yes, that's more what I meant.
<realist> ajmitch: I always forget that NZ exists
<realist> ;-)
<ajmitch> the US happily use NZ to listen in on everything in the south pacific
<ajmitch> that's ok, we ignore west island quite easily :)
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<\sh> moins
<\sh> guys...how can I tell pbuilder to use more then one cpu at compiletime? It looks like, that it uses just one cpu 
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: you see, no matter how put upon anybody is, there is always somebody more put upon to beat up and look down on
<ajmitch> \sh: not without some hackery with packages 
<\sh> ajmitch: that means? 
<ajmitch> some packages will blow up & fail to build with make -j
<ajmitch> s/some/many/, in my experience
<ajmitch> so you have to wrap make, or pass in -j X somehow
<\sh> ajmitch: no..it looks like that only the "gathering builde-deps" is just using one cpu, while building the packga
<\sh> package just using all cpus
<Burgundavia> heh. The beryl people lost everything when their server died
<ajmitch> ah right, you mean the apt-get --simulate step
<tenshu> Just wondering, when the next REVU day will be?
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: svn was still stored somewhere
<ajmitch> tenshu: undecided yet
<Burgundavia> but that is all they kept
<Burgundavia> ouch
<tenshu> okai =)
* Fujitsu groans... Sooooo close...
<ajmitch> \sh: the bug is really that --simulate takes so long - it's something we've complained to mvo about when he made some changes in apt awhile ago
<realist> Sounds like a headache getting make to build, using more than one CPU/core
<ajmitch> \sh: it happened when apt got support for tracking automatic removals
<mnepton> Burgundavia: the Fluendo-licensed mp3 codec is only available as long as stuff it touches is not touched by other GPL'ed codecs. so if you ship the Fluendo gstreamer codec, you can't ship any other codecs for gstreamer. that's ... ungood.
<Burgundavia> mnepton: fine then. Lets ship all binary codecs
<Burgundavia> that doesn't attack the core of my argument
<mnepton> "This means that if you ship GStreamer with our binary mp3 plug-in, you need to be sure that you don't ship any GPL-licensed plug-ins that could end up being used together with the mp3 plug-in, as this would violate the GPL. And you don't want to violate the GPL. You also need to make sure you don't ship any GPL-licensed players which would use this plug-in.
<Burgundavia> rb is about to get the exception and totem already has it
<Burgundavia> minor technicalities, again, not addressing my core argument
<racarr> Burgundavia: I have to agree with you, but playing devils advocate, binary video drivers are reasonably accepted in the community, binary codecs are not. Ubuntu would draw a lot of flak for including binary codecs
<sivang> morning 
<Burgundavia> racarr: neither are very accepted
<Burgundavia> hey sivang
<sivang> Burgundavia: hey corey , sup?
<Burgundavia> stirring the pot
<Burgundavia> see planet
<Fujitsu> racarr: Have you not seen the massive outcry about binary drivers by default?
* sivang looks
<racarr> Fujitsu: Yes, but I think it would be a lot larger for binary codecs by default 
<minghua_> racarr: I doubt so
<minghua_> actually I would say binary video driver is more evil than binary codecs
<Fujitsu> minghua_: Why? THey are more integral to the system?
<racarr> I actually agree with that
<elkbuntu> minghua_, because we all know, binary codecs are *necessary* for running a GUI
<Burgundavia> but there is no inherent reason why one is more or less evil
<Burgundavia> bloody NM and atheros
<Burgundavia> minghua_: can you repeat what you said, I missed it due to my disconnect
<racarr> but people accept the binary video driver because it provides a very visible up to them not circumventible through something short of buying an intel card motherboard in most cases
<minghua_> there are kernel developers (greg k-h for example) stating that nvidia's driver violates GPL, while at least binary codecs based on gstreamer is completely legal for copyright/licensing
<elkbuntu> for Burgundavia: <minghua_> actually I would say binary video driver is more evil than binary codecs
* ajmitch gets back to hacking up nouveau
<Burgundavia> right, that is true
<minghua_> (patent is different, of course)
<minghua_> thanks, elkbuntu
<Burgundavia> given that point is disputed, from a freedom perspective, neither is more evil
<racarr> Well, either way I agree with the point, I was attempting to come up with a devils advocate position 
<racarr> not very well
<Burgundavia> I am certain somebody will email me with something interesting
<Burgundavia> anyway, I do truly need to sleep
* sivang grok'd over Mono, IronPython , C# and friends and might be brainwashed by the CLI promises, but could it be that m$ is not entriely evil? ;)
<minghua_> racarr: it's just that I don't believe more people accept binary drivers than binary codecs
<sivang> Burgundavia: oh dear, the afterfall - http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/27/1633208&from=rss
<sivang> Burgundavia: I strongly support you that there are far more important stuff to deal with before "bling"
<Fujitsu> What? I want crack by default now!
<racarr> minghua_: Maybe, but the effort required to circumvent the advantage of binary codecs is a lot lower compared to the effort required to circumvent the advantage of binary video drivers 
<racarr> minghua_: I realize some of the codecs might be illegal in some countries, but in public perception very few people pay attention
<racarr> sivang: I actually like C#, sort of, and I thought it was neat that MS specifically says IronPython targets .NET and Mono
<minghua_> racarr: I don't really get your "effort to circumvent" argument.  How can you circumvent the advantage of the binary stuff in both cases?
<racarr> sivang: It is encouraging as to Mono not getting sued (I realize most of it is fine, but as I understand it the WinForms part is vulnerable)
<Fujitsu> IronPython? Is that heavy, stiff, bloated Python?
<sivang> Fujitsu: It's python that produces CLI code
<sivang> (bytecode, actually)
<Fujitsu> How strange...
<sivang> Fujitsu: if anything, it will be far more optimized and performance winning then regular python IMHO
<sivang> racarr: indeed
<racarr> minghua: Well, for binary codecs it's generally pretty easy to find a working codec, espescially with things like Automatix. Granted, illegal in many countries but most people are going to ignore that. Whereas getting decent 3D acceleration in some cases isn't a possibility without getting an intel card, or an ATI card where the radeon driver provides DRI
<racarr> sivang: Maybe at some point, but Mono doesn't have great performance
<sivang> racarr: I was acutally shocked to realize that the company I so much leanrt to like to hate, has done such efforts in the direction of an open standard for a language that can make cross-developing for *nix/win32 more effective and reusable
<sivang> racarr: they are now working with Zend (my former employer) to improve PHP on win32
<sivang> racarr: patches from them will be merged back upstream to PHP , if I understand correctly.
<racarr> sivang: MS does some decent stuff really, and a lot of neat research
<racarr> sivang: They are so large the practices of one division may not be reflective at all of another part
<sivang> racarr: indeed, shocking and amazing to me to absorb and realize, I'm coming to terms with it slowly.
<sivang> ;)
<racarr> It's kind of scary to think of how rich they would be if they didn't spend so much on research they don't use
* Fujitsu shakes his head... Praising Microsoft, and mentioning Automatix in a non-negative way... What is this channel coming to? ;-)
<sivang> hehe
<minghua_> racarr: Do you mean "circumvent the situation that binary stuff aren't installed by default"?  I don't see why users can't use automatix to install binary drivers.
<sivang> Fujitsu: hold back in there , pal :)
<racarr> Minghua_: Right, but people accept installing binary drivers because they don't have a way to work around that whereas people tend to go for the free software codecs because it's pretty easy to work around
<racarr> Minghua_: Perhaps I am not wording the point well, the idea is many average users will care about free software enough to take five minutes to install multimedia codecs, but not enough to sacrifice acceleration or buy a new card
<racarr> Minghua_: So it's sort of accepted as a neccesary evil
<minghua_> racarr: I don't really know much about the binary stuff, but is it the case you can't install binary drivers by yourself in five minutes?
<minghua_> Debian has packaged binary drivers in non-free, which I assume takes less than five minutes to install...
<racarr> minghua_: Mm, I still didn't make my point clear...that is not what I was trying to say 
<minghua_> racarr: please bear with me, I am not a native speaker :-P
<racarr> Minghua: The point of binary codecs are to avoid the patent problems, so they could be distributed by default, etc but this is done at the sacrifice of freedom
<racarr> Minghua_: And the point of the binary drivers is to enable acceleration, but again done at the sacrifice of freedom 
<minghua_> racarr: I see your point now
<racarr> Minghua_: The idea is people don't care enough about freedom to sacrifice acceleration, but they do care enough to sacrifice five minutes and install codecs
<mnepton> as long as i have wobbly windows and flame effects i don't care if stormtroopers are killing all the redheads.
<mnepton> (uhhh ... was that out loud?)
<racarr> The flame effect is really overdoing it
<racarr> It's hard to imagine using that
<mnepton> but at least you had no objections to killing all the redheads.
<minghua_> racarr: I still have my question: why don't people care freedom enough to sacrifice five minutes and install binary drivers?  I am not against putting them in archive, I am against installing them by default.
<minghua_> (maybe I should go back and read Burgundavia's blog again...)
<racarr> minghua: No, the point is they don't care enough about freedom to sacrifice acceleration so they DO take the five minutes to install the binary drivers
<racarr> Minghua: So a lot of people have them installed, and there is a de facto acceptance
<racarr> minghua_: Whereas in the case of codecs, they take the five minutes to GAIN freedom, because five minutes isn't a huge deal, whereas 3D acceleration (apparently) is
<ajmitch> racarr: the flames are important!
<racarr> ajmitch: Beam up is so much more important than flame
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> beam up is boring
<ajmitch> flames rock
<ajmitch> they make my desktop 500% more productive
<racarr> ajmitch: You can continue to interact with the bottom half of a window while it's closing!
<racarr> ajmitch: If that's not useful, I don't know what is
<mnepton> racarr: sounds like every man's dream break-up routine ...
<crimsun> I prefer the ascii'd-to-death gdm error, thanks.
<racarr> Oh god
<racarr> mnepton: I think I'm going to submit that to bash
* mnepton quickly copyrights his speech
<minghua_> I'm still confused. :-(  I think I'll read racarr's words again later after shower...
<racarr> minghua_: Sorry, I'm not a great writer either (and I am a native speaker, so I have no excuse_
<ajmitch> mnepton: that was impressive, even for you
* mnepton bows
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: ping
* Fujitsu bounces back to ajmitch.
<ajmitch> bug 73526
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73526 in wxmaxima "Please sync Ubuntu wxmaxima [universe]  ver. 0.6.5 from Debian unstable/testing (main) ver. 0.7.0a" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73526
<Fujitsu> Yes, that one.
<racarr> On the subject of beryl, I wonder how much the server crash will set them back if at all
<ajmitch> looks like something you should care about
<Fujitsu> I was looking at that earlier.
<ajmitch> ok, good
<ajmitch> racarr: not much
<ajmitch> they should have been using bzr or some other distributed vcs
* Fujitsu looks for the screen session with that merge open from this morning.
<racarr> ajmiatch: But I wonder if they had the documentation on the wiki and stuff backed up
<ajmitch> then losing the central repository wouldn't be nearly as painful for development stalling
<racarr> Not that beryl had much documentation...
<ajmitch> I doubt it
<racarr> Fujitsu: Were you going to do that? I was looking at it earlier
<mnepton> the Beryl documentation was basically yoga exercises allowing you to get your lips to meet your butt.
* ajmitch rebuilds samba again
<racarr> Fujitsu: Given that you can actually commit it and I can't, it would probably just be easier if you did
<racarr> Fujitsu: So nevermind
<Fujitsu> Most probably, yes.
<Fujitsu> I've got to know {{w,}x,}maxima fairly well over the past few months, for some not-too-good reasons.
<ajmitch> ok, this samba merge is almost done
<racarr> hehe, I have it installed but prefer to just run maxima from a terminal 
<ajmitch> might as well finish it in the morning
* Fujitsu curses that 53k line patch which contained the fix for #43150.
<racarr> bug 43150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in maxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<racarr> Ah
<Fujitsu> Are you running Dapper?
<racarr> No, edgy
<Fujitsu> :(
<Fujitsu> I need a couple more Dapper testers for #43150...
<minghua_> Fujitsu: how many more do you need?  I have a dapper chroot around
<Fujitsu> I think we've got 3 of 5 so far.
<minghua_> hmm, sounds I could be helpful
<Fujitsu> minghua_: Yes please!
<dholbach> hey Q-FUNK - new planner version is out! :)
<Q-FUNK> oh :)
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: did he include your fixes?
<dholbach> it was not exactly a fix fix
<dholbach>  but yeah, the NEWS file says it's an option now
<Q-FUNK> I meant the additional alignment patches you added to Malone and upstream?
* ajmitch wishes he had a faster box for compiling
<ajmitch> oh well, time for sleep
<ajmitch> night all :)
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: alignment patches?
<dholbach> night ajmitch
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: IIRC thee were some misaligned Gantt and you had two patches for that?
<dholbach> uh... those were upstream patches in bugzilla, no?
<dholbach> oh there's a gantt crash fixed also
<dholbach> http://download.gnome.org/sources/planner/0.14/planner-0.14.2.news
<Chandu> Fujitsu, hi
<Chandu> Fujitsu, I am facing big problem , can you please help me 
<Chandu> jaldhar, hi
<Fujitsu> Chandu: What is this problem?
<Chandu> Fujitsu, hi
<Chandu> Fujitsu, lvm 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, I have a server with 2 harddisks 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, In 1st OS was there and in 2nd whole our project data was thr
<Chandu> Fujitsu, 2nd hardisk was lvm partitioned 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, As OS got corrupted , I reinstalled os formatting 1st hardidsk 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, But now Iam not able to mount 2nd hardidsk where my data is there 
<Fujitsu> What do you mean you are unable to mount it?
<Chandu> Fujitsu, yup
<Chandu> Fujitsu, VG and LV are gone 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, It is showing 2nd hardisk with lvm ID 8e 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, If I want to mount I have to format 
<Fujitsu> Was there any LVM stuff on the first hard disk?
<Chandu> Fujitsu, As os was in the first harddisk , I created lv and VG in first harddisk only 
<Chandu> Fujitsu, Whether data will be in the 2nd hardisk or not .. Ididnt format it 
<Adri2000> Heya Fujitsu :) the new upstream release of homebank is packaged: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553 tell me if you see something else wrong
<minghua> you need to activate the volume group first -- but how is that question related to this channel?
<Chandu> minghua, No I know that question is not related to this channel , but as I know you people , I need a solution ..sio I thought I can ask here 
<Chandu> minghua, How do I activate VG if data is present ..
<Chandu> minghua, I want to know whether data will be there in 2nd harddisk in my scenerio
<minghua> read the lvm documentation
<Chandu> minghua, can u give me the link
<minghua> lvm(8) man page, and all those man pages in "SEE ALSO" would be a good start
<Chandu> minghua, ok, but Can you tell me whether data will be there or not ..can I recover the data 
<Chandu> minghua, I hope only physical volume left over
<minghua> if you don't want to read doc by yourself, I don't want to help you either
<minghua> sorry, but I have better ways to spend my time
<Chandu> minghua, hey sorry ..Iam reading I just asked to make confirm whether data is not lost or not , as iam very tensed
<\sh> new wine is on its way
<StevenK> \sh: Which vineyard? :-P
<\sh> oh well, I think 0.9.25 from ZA ;)
<StevenK> :-P
<minghua> \sh: great news
<\sh> or from cameroon...I actually don't know ;)
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: I'm almost done.
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: can you help me spot the Malone bugs that we are closing with 0.14.2 ?
<Q-FUNK> \sh: does cameroon even produce wine? :)
<\sh> Q-FUNK: hmm..I hope so ;) if not I have to tell my GF that we have to change that ;)
<Q-FUNK> hm?!
* Q-FUNK is feeling like a complete zombie as winter closes in and daylight time shorter
<\sh> I'm just playing with my new FAI 3.1 fai server
<\sh> and my installation is really weired but works ;)
<zul> BenC: pong
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: the list of planner bugs isn't that long: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/planner/+bugs -is it?
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: indeed not, but too many patches attached to keep track of what went where.
<\sh> hmm..does anyone use pittis requestsync script?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> \sh: all the time, why?
<\sh> Hobbsee: do I need the actual packages.gzs from the distribution? or does it load the actual ones and use then=
<\sh> them?
<StevenK> \sh: It doesn't use Packages.gz.
<StevenK> \sh: It uses Sources.gz, so you only need a deb-src line
<\sh> hmm...I guess it uses the host systems one
<StevenK> Correct.
<lastnode> Fujitsu, ping
<Q-FUNK> stratus :)
* stratus hides
<stratus> Q-FUNK: :P
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: uploaded to Debian
<stratus> what?
<stratus> dholbach: howdy?
<giskard> hello stratus :)
<stratus> giskard: hey
<zul> damn im going to miss the ask mark session
<isaric_> How to upload with dput -f *source.changes
<isaric_>  Ican't and i have  : This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<isaric_> http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=77337&p=2
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: super
<dholbach> stratus: heya
<zul> hey dholbach 
<dholbach> hey zul
<PriceChild> Could someone take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3558 please?
<gnomefreak> mozilla really needs to think the way they package things :(
* proppy hugs dholbach
<poningru> gnomefreak: blargh?
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<gnomefreak> poningru: i installed kompozer and its the same as every other mozilla app. they add .sh files 2 of them to be exact neither of them work and both have warnings "this is a hack its not safe"
<gnomefreak> not to mention the hoops you have to jump through to isntall mozilla apps from tar
<proppy> what if my yesterday upload doesn't show up on REVU ?
<proppy> is there a way to check that is processing or processed ? (apart of the successfull dput)
<siretart> proppy: what package did you try to upload?
<proppy> unittest++
<proppy> *my first debian package*
<siretart> proppy: ah, sure thing. up didn't upload a source package, but a binary package
<siretart> binary packages are ignored by revu
<proppy> hum, i pretty sure i followed the revu wiki, i will double check
<siretart> you most probably missed using the -S for debuild
<proppy> siretart: ok not it should be ok
<proppy> it was my mistake :), i uploaded the output of our packaging-farm,
<proppy> which is a binary package with .orig.tar.gz + diff, i though i'would be ok
<proppy> s/not/now
<proppy> siretart: thanks for the tip :)
* proppy hugs siretart
<siretart> :)
<proppy> siretart: can you check again ? (unittest++)
<siretart> proppy: did you join ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<proppy> siretart: the mailing list ? the channel ?
<siretart> proppy: see /topic: Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
<siretart> report back if you have done
<proppy> siretart: oh ok, sorry, i didn't read the topic :|
<proppy> just the wiki
<siretart> then the wiki should be fixed, too
<proppy> siretart: this is in the wiki, too, i just skipped it sorry
<proppy> siretart: suscribed
<siretart> proppy: did you join the group? 
<siretart> (no idea what you mean with 'suscribed')
<proppy> siretart: i joined the group
<proppy> siretart: (sorry again)
* proppy hugs siretart
<bddebian> Heya gang
<proppy> siretart: should i upload again ?
<siretart> proppy: no
<siretart> ACCEPTED /home/ftp/incoming/unittest++_1.2.0-3_source.changes
<proppy> yeah it just showed up ! :)
<proppy> siretart: is this a problem if this package is both on REVU and debian wnpp NEW ?
<proppy> siretart: when i want to upload a new (corrected version) to revu ? should i increment the package revision, or should i overwrite the existing one with -f ?
<proppy> -f worked :)
<proppy> btw, i've got a 'linda' error i can't correct regarding debhelper version on build-depends, if i want my package to build fine on sarge and hoary
<giskard> someone here can update amsn? :P
* joejaxx is back
<joejaxx> :D
<CypherBIOS> I'm having a situation with packaging version number, can somebody help me?
<CypherBIOS> I did a package ("mypackage_0.1beta"), but now, I correct the name in this new version of the program packaged, and the name/version is ("mypackage_0.1-0ubuntu1") but, this version are considered < than the old package :(
<CypherBIOS> *I made a package :)
<fbond> CypherBIOS, does it matter that the version is considered less than the older package's version?  Does the older package exist in any repositories?
<CypherBIOS> fbond: yes, the old package are in an repository (but this is not public yet), and the old package are distribuited for Internet already, many peoples already have installed
<CypherBIOS> fbond: the new version are considered less than the old version
<fbond> So, if people are not installing from a repo, they should just dpkg -i, in which case the version will not matter...
<fbond> But, apt-get will not automatically install the new version
<fbond> I would just have everyone remove the old version first, if possible.
<fbond> I can't really recommend messing with the version of the new package to correct an error made on the old package.
<fbond> But, if you are not submitting the new package to revu or anything, you might just want to call the new version mypackage_0.1beta2 or something
<fbond> Is this a package that is in Ubuntu?
<CypherBIOS> fbond: no, the package are not on ubuntu or revu yet, if will be there, is the new version ("0.1-0ubuntu1)
<fbond> right ... don't mess with the version then
<fbond> just inform people that they need to remove the old version before upgrading 
<isaric_> How to use login on MOTU ? http://isaric.cof.free.fr/eot.png
<plerk> imbrandon?
<plerk> are you here?
<CypherBIOS> fbond: thank you
<CypherBIOS> fbond: and if I put the old version as conflict on the new package?
<CypherBIOS> fbond: (0.1-0ubuntu1 conflicts with 0.1beta)
<fbond> CypherBIOS, I don't think dpkg will let you have two versions of the same package installed, anyway.  So using Conflicts to do that is just redundant
<CypherBIOS> fbond: make sense :)
<CypherBIOS> tnx
<fbond> your welcome
<CypherBIOS> ;)
<siretart> proppy: revu only considers the upload date for distinguishing uploads. just reupload your stuff
<isaric_> How to use login for MOTU : http://revu.tauware.de/ ? I ha ve a problem with recover http://isaric.cof.free.fr/eot.png
<proppy> siretart: thanx and done :)
<stgraber> Adri2000: ping
<Adri2000> stgraber: pong
<stgraber> do you have a second to look at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3560
<stgraber> I did the changes (native to non-native)
<isaric_> How to connecte at revu http://revu.tauware.de/index.py ?
<Adri2000> stgraber: seems fine this time, but your changelog contains the changes done upstream (I know it's you), not in the packaging, so I would directly do 0.5-0ubuntu1 Initial release
<Adri2000> stgraber: and you have to follow the debian python policy :)
<stgraber> ok, I'm reading it :)
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: here?
<lastnode> Fujitsu, ping
<stgraber> Adri2000: I have read the Debian python policy, and I don't find anything wrong, what did I miss ? (deps, header and everything looks correct)
<Adri2000> stgraber: give me the link you read
<LaserJock> Fujitsu won't be around for a while
<LaserJock> he's in AU
<stgraber> Adri2000: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<Adri2000> stgraber: it's the good one, but you can take a look at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy it will be easier :)
<stgraber> Adri2000: so basically as I don't bytecompile and that's only a single python file, I should only add the ${python:Depends} in the Depends part of the control file ?
<stgraber> Adri2000: a lot of the page is about bytecompiled python software
<stgraber> s/a lot/a good part/
<LaserJock> you don't want it bytecompiled?
<stgraber> what's the good point of having a python script bytecompiled ?
<LaserJock> it makes it faster
<Adri2000> stgraber: I'm not at all a python [packaging]  expert, but: debian/pycompat, XS-Python-Version and XB-Python-Version in debian/control, you have to use python-{central,support}, ...
<LaserJock> I'm not sure he would have to use python-{central,support} if he's not going to bytecompile it
<LaserJock> in fact I don't think he'd have to do much of anything
<LaserJock> but most, if not all, python apps are bytecompiled
<stgraber> ok, the problem is that I made my package by looking at another python ones that's not bytecompiled (student-control-panel from Edubuntu) :)
<stgraber> I'll have a look at how to make it easily bytecompiled (about performance I doubt it will make it really faster as it starts in 0.032s here :) )
<LaserJock> stgraber: student-control-panel isn't bytecompiled?
<LaserJock> hmmm
<stgraber> nope, it isn't
<stgraber> or at least the last time I checked it it wasn't
<LaserJock> you're right
<LaserJock> well, you could do it just like that then
<LaserJock> personally if you don't want/need to bytecompile then it's actually rather easy
* stgraber is flooding REVU today :)
<stgraber> I did a small mistake in the changelog (the date) :)
<stgraber> Adri2000: I uploaded it with the updated changelog and 2-3 small changes in control, it's not bytecompiled : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3576
<stgraber> LaserJock: if you have a minute and can also have a look it would be great
* ajmitch reads through the open week sessions
<joejaxx> holle lla
<joejaxx> hello all
<joejaxx> bah
<ajmitch> hi
<stgraber> hi
<joejaxx> another day on my packages
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> until i get it right
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<adrian3> hi, i got a small problem on packing.....
<adrian3> the dependecies script (from debian), returns a kind of error
<adrian3> "Package `libcairo2-dev,' is not installed and no info is available.
<adrian3> Use dpkg --info (= dpkg-deb --info) to examine archive files,
<adrian3> and dpkg --contents (= dpkg-deb --contents) to list their contents.
<adrian3> libcairo2-dev, (>= ),...."
<adrian3> but these libraries are installed...
<joejaxx> Burgwork: do you do any sort of webscripting programming? 
<Burgwork> joejaxx: no, why?'
<joejaxx> ie sever scripting etc like php
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i am trying to figure out some stuff for a project i want to start
<joejaxx> that will probably draw alot of people
<adrian3> anyone abou my problem ?
<adrian3> *about
<psusi> is the right version of libcairo2-dev installed?
<adrian3> is the newest from repo s
<shawarma_> adrian3: You should move the comma to after the parentheses.
<shawarma_> adrian3: but maybe you figured that out by now..
* Adri2000 is wondering how the Uploaders field (with control.in) works
<jpatrick> Adri2000: I think that's no longer used anymore
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<LaserJock> Uploaders is just a list of people who upload the package
<Adri2000> the control.in has Uploaders: @GNOME_TEAM@, but where does it get the list of the uploaders? from the changelog?
<ajmitch> no, that's from gnome-pkg-tools, it's a special case
<LaserJock> well, GNOME_TEAM must be definded somewhere
<LaserJock> ah, there
<ajmitch> since there are about 30-40 people in the debian gnome team
<ajmitch> maintaining lists of uploaders by hand would be unwieldy
<ajmitch> we don't have to worry about such things
<Adri2000> ok, so to merge this field, I just take the one from debian, which is more up to date I think
<ajmitch> you ignore control, the changes to care about are in control.in
<ajmitch> otherwise you may find if you modify control, the changes get dropped when you build the packages
<Adri2000> control.in is unchanged, only control is, ajmitch how can I ignore it? I have to choose between the ubuntu and the debian line :p
<ajmitch> what was changed in control?
<Adri2000> the Uploaders line, one or two people were added
<ajmitch> check if it recreates control on build
<Adri2000> ajmitch: yep it does when building the source package
<ajmitch> ok then
<ajmitch> so it's probably the same as debian's now
<Adri2000> ajmitch: err, but I'm building the source packager on edgy, edgy has gnome-pkg-tools 0.5.2 and feisty/debian has 0.7
<Adri2000> package*
<Adri2000> I will try to use pdebuild in order to have the last uploaders list
<ajmitch> I see
<LaserJock> lifeless: you up yet?
<Adri2000> revu doesn't allow access to the .changes file... is it really dangerous?
<LaserJock> yep
<Adri2000> LaserJock: can you explain how please?
<LaserJock> well, in the sense that if somebody got the .changes file from a MOTU they could upload the package
<Adri2000> just because it's signed? (-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- .......)
<LaserJock> yeah
<Adri2000> maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was the same message that appear on the signed emails
<Adri2000> a signed email*
<Adri2000> (er, it's the same)
<Adri2000> :)
<LaserJock> well, put in this case we are talking about uploads
<ajmitch> the signed emails on the changes lists, for packages that are already uploaded?
<LaserJock> if you got the .changes file you could dput *.changes and upload the package
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I think the question is how is a .changes file different then a signed email
<ajmitch> the signature is specific to what was signed
<Adri2000> ah yeah ok
<Adri2000> I looked at the first characters of some signatures
<Adri2000> iD8DBQF...
<Adri2000> but then indeed it's different :)
<geser> the signed emails on the changes lists are for already accepted uploads, it won't be accepted a second time (because of the version)
<Adri2000> geser: yep, but I was talking of any email signed by a person who has upload rights
<geser> a signature would be useless if you could reuse it for something else
<LaserJock> so each time you sign something it is unique, but still uniquely you
<LaserJock> right?
<geser> yes
<geser> you get even two different signatures when you sign the same file twice because of the timestamp
<joejaxx> hello all
<giskard> imbrandon, ping
<lifeless> Laser_away: yes
<lifeless> Laser_away: been busy writing email :)
<joejaxx> launchpad is based on zope right?
<joejaxx> nevermind i have the answer
<joejaxx> man this project should be fun
* PriceChild pokes LaserJock
<PriceChild> hello :)
<LaserJock> hi
<PriceChild> free?
<LaserJock> not exactly
<LaserJock> is it quick?
<Adri2000> LaserJock: could you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553 ? or another motu available :)
<imbrandon> giskard: pong
<crimsun> imbrandon: thanks for the vm tweaks.
<giskard> imbrandon, b-core will no accepted.
<imbrandon> giskard: i know
<giskard> as we are using mesa/libGL.a
<giskard> ah ok
<imbrandon> crimsun: you welcome, did it work ?
<crimsun> imbrandon: yes, it's doing just fine
<imbrandon> giskard: known , it will be fixed in the next few days
<PriceChild> no probs LaserJock
<imbrandon> crimsun: rockin
<giskard> imbrandon, how?
<giskard> imbrandon, 2 different sources?
<imbrandon> giskard: i'm working with upstream on some changes
<imbrandon> no more mesa will be needed
<giskard> imbrandon, i talked today with onestone but our problem is
<imbrandon> ?
<LaserJock> weird
<LaserJock> one of my cores decided to peg a 100% today
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hardly unusual
<joejaxx> ajmitch: 14:20 < juri_> i think they're against the current GIT tree.
<joejaxx> what does that mean in reference to kernels?
<joejaxx> i do not understand the GIT terminology
<zul> git is a scm
<joejaxx> so does that mean the 17 kernel or the 19 kernel
<joejaxx> 18 rather
<zul> git is basically like cvs its a way to collect patches and crap..
<joejaxx> because 18 is stable
<joejaxx> zul: yeah but which is the current kernel tree
<joejaxx> which version
<zul> 19
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> so the 2.6.19 kernel has to be patched
<joejaxx> ok
<ahod> I uploaded a new version of libflaim to REVU about 30 minutes ago, but it is still stuck in the incomming directory.
<ahod> Can an admin take a look to see if there is a problem?
<ahod> btw - I had to create a new PGP key
<ajmitch> which is why the upload failed
<ajmitch> put your new key on launchpad, make sure you're in the right lp team, etc
<ahod> I added the key to my launchpad account
<ahod> does something need to be done to re-sync the keyring?
<ajmitch> you're in ubuntu-universe-contributors ?
<ajmitch> an admin needs to do so
<ahod> let me check ... hang on
<ahod> My account says "Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe (Approved) "
<ajmitch> ok, I'll resync the keyring & unreject the package once I get back
* ajmitch is heading out in a few minutes
<ahod> ok.  thanks.
<superm1> imbrandon, ping
<imbrandon> superm1: pong
<superm1> i was wondering if you could possibly look at the ivtv-firmware package i put on revu some time back.  it was the package that just grabbed the firmware in a fashion similar to the flashplugin-nonfree package
<imbrandon> sure , i'm headed out the ddor from work right now, leave me a PM with the URL and I will look when i get home ( aobut 1 hour )
<imbrandon> door* about*
<superm1> sounds good.  i'll be back on later on this evening
<superm1> like 6 or 7 hours from now
<superm1> so i'll catch up with you then
<imbrandon> kk
* imbrandon <detaches>
<david_corrales_> hi :)
<PriceChild> hi david_corrales_ :)
<david_corrales_> I'm currently integrating yelp in Jokosher
<david_corrales_> and I was wondering if there's any special procedure to handle the different languages for the docbook documents
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-29
<david_corrales_> anyone :)?
<crimsun> ask in #ubuntu-doc
<david_corrales_> okies, thanks
<LaserJock> keescook: you still around?
<keescook> LaserJock: yup!
<ajmitch> LaserJock: when's your next superstar session?
<keescook> what's up?
<ajmitch> hey keescook 
<keescook> hiya ajmitch!
<LaserJock> ajmitch: umm, Thursday
<LaserJock> keescook: I was just looking at your sbuild/LVM scripty thingy
<LaserJock> I don't really know much about LVM
<LaserJock> could I set up partitions as normal and leave some free space to use as LVM for this sort of thing?
<ajmitch> LVM is great
<ajmitch> you can use loopback files as LVM physical volumes
<keescook> LaserJock: absolutely.  that's what I did on my laptop for UDS
<LaserJock> I tried LVM'ing my whole machine and since then everything 
<LaserJock> has been a little messy
* ajmitch uses LVM all over the place
<keescook> LaserJock: heh.  I use LVM for all my partitions, but it can get a little messy.  It's taken me a number of years to really be comfortable with a root lvm partition.
<keescook> but if you have a spare drive (or as ajmitch suggests: just a loopback), it's great fun
<_MMA_> LaserJock: I heard the dailys start to build tomorrow. Is that right?
<LaserJock> the other question I had was how clean is using sbuild this way
<LaserJock> _MMA_: have no idea
<_MMA_> k
<keescook> LaserJock: what do you mean by "clean"?
<LaserJock> well, with pbuilder you get a clean environment each time
<LaserJock> because it just unpacks the tarball again
<keescook> LaserJock: ah.  yeah, you get a clean environment every time, but without any overhead of unpacking a tarball.
<LaserJock> is it similar with using the LVM snapshot
<keescook> right, except to create and delete a snapshot takes <1s
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Looks like the 30th. I think. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule Just a FYI.
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yeah, that's the first Herd
<gnomefreak> _MMA_: thats when the first alpha is released not when the first image will be set up
<LaserJock> but it's more or less the same thing
<_MMA_> gnomefreak: Ahh... Ok. :)
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: i know in past we had images well before first alpha
<LaserJock> hmm, so maybe tonight I'll wipe my desktop at home
<LaserJock> and try to put fedora and edgy on it with lots of extra space to play with LVM
<LaserJock> I think fedora's installer uses LVM
<keescook> LaserJock: sweet.  If you use the alternate CD, you can build LVM partitions during install
<LaserJock> yeah, but I'm pretty likely to screw everything up
<LaserJock> last time I tried that I ended up with an unbootable system
<keescook> I tend to always have a pair of drives in my desktop.  then I install with alternate, making 2 partitions on each drive, both software raid'd, putting /boot on md0 and LVM on md1.  :)
* LaserJock is such a newb sometimes
<keescook> LaserJock: heh.  if you've got a few hours, give it a shot.  :)
<keescook> otherwise, just leave lots of space left over for LVM.  that works just as well
<LaserJock> yeah, I have a 120GB drive
<LaserJock> and I usually only use ~30GB of it
<LaserJock> anybody done LVM with fedora's installer?
<LaserJock> I was thinking maybe it might be easier
<ajmitch> yes, that's why I've always used the alternate CD for real installs on my systems :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I made that mistake once
<LaserJock> had to burn another whole .iso ;-)
<LaserJock> good thing there's only 1 CD
<CypherBIOS> Hi guys. I'm packaging an application for Ubuntu and I wold like contribute with motu-team, I've packaged already and followed the debian-policy, etc. And at this time I'm here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<CypherBIOS> Who can import my GPGKey for REVU keyring?
<Adri2000> hi CypherBIOS
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: hi :)
<Adri2000> try with ajmitch
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: tnx :)
<CypherBIOS> ajmitch: can you help me?
<CypherBIOS> ajmitch: ok, you're away. I'll send a email for you.
<joejaxx> anyone know what Ubuntu release used the 2.4 kernel?
<crimsun> joejaxx: we've never used a 2.4 kernel.
<crimsun> Warty, the first one (4.10), used 2.6.8.1
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> i wonder how ubuntu whould run on a 2.4 kernel
<joejaxx> well it is not like it whould matter
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: I've sent a mail to keyring@tiber.tauware.de requesting the key import, are this correct?!
<joejaxx> i do not need xserver
<joejaxx> or any other ram/resource hogging nonsense
<crimsun> well, you'll have to fight the deps
<Adri2000> CypherBIOS: yes, according to the wiki :)
<crimsun> we've already ripped out all the modutils deps, which you'd need for 2.4
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: can I do something else for now?
<Adri2000> CypherBIOS: if your package is finished, just wait
<joejaxx> crimsun: :\
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: yep, my package are ready to review ;)
<CypherBIOS> Adri2000: tnx, I'll still waiting :)
<crimsun> keescook: RE: 73603, Ive already uploaded a tested debdiff to security-review
<keescook> crimsun: oh! great!
<crimsun> I uploaded it before that bug was even filed, heh
<joejaxx> crimsun: oh alright i guess i will just use the 2.6 patches then
<keescook> crimsun: did you do all releases or edgy only?
<crimsun> only edgy, because that's standard forhow I've done it in the paste
<keescook> crimsun: yup, me too.  cool.  :)
<crimsun> (I upload one, get pitti to approve it, then continue the backports)
<crimsun> err, past
<crimsun> this lag is horrible
<keescook> crimsun: so, silly me, where is security-review?  :P
<crimsun> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/2006-November/thread.html
<keescook> *rofl*  that's probably a list I should be on.  Oops.
<ajmitch> keescook: you're not on it? oh dear...
<keescook> pitti never mentioned it :)  I'm on so many others...
<ajmitch> one more won't hurt
<ajmitch> much
<crimsun> I'm pretty sure it's only used for universe
<ajmitch> too public otherwise
<keescook> crimsun: debdiff looks good.  I changed the version to 1.3.0-9ubuntu0.1 just to stay consistent.
<crimsun> oh, crap, right
* crimsun punches himself with a Ubuntu version delta
<ajmitch> amazing, even crimsun can make mistakes
* joejaxx jumps infront of the delta
<crimsun> pshht, I'm a mere mortal. I'm full of mistakes =] 
<keescook> I think proftpd takes longer to run configure than to actually do the compiley bits.  :P
<crimsun> It took about as long to compile here as it took to resolve the dependencie;)
<keescook> hehe
<crimsun> 'lo bdd	
<keescook> crimsun: thanks for getting that ready; I've got it uploaded.  I'll get it published once it's built.  :)
<crimsun> ok, I give up on theis wifi connection
<crimsun> keescook: thanks
<bddebian> crimsun: Hi
<imbrandon> wow i realy got ot get used to these diffrent hours
<imbrandon> ello all
<keescook> hiya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya keescook
<imbrandon> you by chance cant reject a few things for me can you ( from the NEW queue )
<imbrandon> keescook, ^
<keescook> okay, my brain is failing... how do I create an "Affects Ubuntu Edgy" bug task??
<keescook> imbrandon: I can't sorry, I don't have any queue abilities.  :(
<imbrandon> np, i dident think so , but i thought i would try
<imbrandon> umm you ..... lemme get the link
<keescook> I've tried both Upstream... and Distribution... and neither actually gets me what I want.  :P
<imbrandon> no you have to file it a diffrent way iirc
<Hobbsee> keescook: request a backport for it, iirc
<fernando> hi all
<keescook> I'm trying to create an Edgy task for bug 73603 (so I can close it...)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73603 in proftpd-dfsg "remote code execution in ProFTPD" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73603
<imbrandon> hello fernando
* imbrandon looks
<keescook> Hobbsee: I want edgy-backports?
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure, i would think so.  imbrandon seems to know though
<imbrandon> keescook, yea edgy-backports
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch
<keescook> imbrandon: ah-ha.  okay.  thanks!
<keescook> imbrandon: that didn't seem to work...
<imbrandon> what are you wanting to do exactly, sorry came in late in the covo
<imbrandon> i just seen sarah say you wanted a backport
<keescook> imbrandon: for that bug, I want a bug task that says   proftpd (Ubuntu Edgy)
<imbrandon> ohhh , i think you have to file the bug that way initialy , at this point i think the best thing is just to get a debdiff and put it through the sru/security process
<imbrandon> but for a bug that effects only one distro release i think you have to make it that way from the get go ( yea it sucks )
<imbrandon> thats why its not used much
<imbrandon> hrm *thinks*
<ajmitch> more malone features
<imbrandon> yea wonderfull malone
<keescook> imbrandon: I've already put the security patch through (crimsun made it, I've uploaded it)  I just want to have a "closed" edgy task for it, leaving it open for Feisty.  :P
<ajmitch> maybe you can do it via email :)
<imbrandon> ahh , afaik thats not possible ( or i dunno how ) without 2 bugs
* keescook scratces his head
<ajmitch> wow, mail on the security-review list
<ajmitch> first message for 2 months
<imbrandon> keescook, yea it really needs to be works on, malone really the way its setup only supports a "bug" if its fixed or not, not really if its fixed in one but not in another
<imbrandon> etc
<imbrandon> well it does but it dont work exactly great and not the way you would think ( like in this case )
<keescook> check out bug 47619.  it has both (Ubuntu) and (Ubuntu Dapper).  That's what I can't figure out how to do.  :(
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 47619 in nautilus "nautilus sometimes crashes when opening new window" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47619
<imbrandon> .... "in one but not another" ... == ..."in one release but not another" ....
<imbrandon> keescook, right but it was filed with the dapper one first and the other was added, noth the reverse
<lastnode> Fujitsu, ping
<imbrandon> s/noth/not
<keescook> imbrandon: aaah.  i see
<imbrandon> wich sucks in a case like this
<imbrandon> keescook, at leaste thats how its been explained to me , it all is kinda hazy
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> keescook, !!!!!!!!!!!!! ahhh i found it /i think/
<imbrandon> one sec
<imbrandon> woot, i did, now look at your bug ( its a mess but look heheh )
<imbrandon> that button needs relabled badly, because it dosent do what it says
<imbrandon> ( FYI to get that you click on "backport to release" on the left and then choose an older release, then you can mark closed )
<crimsun> that's even worse than its previous sequence
<imbrandon> but backport is the wrong word as -backports are filed diffrently
<imbrandon> crimsun, yea
<crimsun> it used to be under Also affects Distribution
<imbrandon> proftpd-dfsg (Ubuntu Edgy)   	Fix Released  	Undecided
<imbrandon> markd for ya
<imbrandon> the rest i left as is
<crimsun> Fix Committed, please
<imbrandon> ok
<imbrandon> changed
<crimsun> danke
<imbrandon> yw
<ajmitch> how evil
<keescook> imbrandon: sweet!
<imbrandon> yea , we need to poke the LP guys about that, thats really really not intuitive
* ajmitch looked at that as well & thought it was for something different
<imbrandon> ajmitch, exactly
<imbrandon> it really should be under effects distro like crimsun said imho
<imbrandon> affects*
<imbrandon> keescook, does this affect dapper ?
<keescook> imbrandon: probably, but universe security updates tend to only go into the current stable
<keescook> I'm happy to publish stuff that people prepare though.  :)
<imbrandon> dapper == 5 year stable hehehe
<imbrandon> ( server )
<imbrandon> proftpd would fall under server imho hehe
<crimsun> I'm looking at dapper's source package
<imbrandon> if there is a patch i'm happy to prepare the same debdiff, although crimsun might already have thought of that
<keescook> if you want, snag the debdiff crimsun used and see if it applies cleanly, build it and test it, and I'll upload it.  :)
<imbrandon> right on
<crimsun> it doesn't, there are differences
<imbrandon> looks like crimsun is on it
<crimsun> (I always address Dapper first)
<jdong> crimsun: can you help me fix a quick bug?
<imbrandon> jdong, did you see my note on lp
<keescook> okay... I'm outta here.  thanks everyone!
<jdong> imbrandon: which note?
<crimsun> thanks, keescook!
<imbrandon> bug 73603
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73603 in proftpd-dfsg "remote code execution in ProFTPD" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73603
<imbrandon> thanks keescook
<imbrandon> :)
* jdong looks
<jdong> meanwhile, anyone feel like fixing an xchat-gnome trivial bug for me?] 
<jdong> 000003c0  2d 64 65 76 20 28 3e 3d  09 32 2e 31 36 2e 30 29  |-dev (>=.2.16.0)|
<jdong> libgnome2-dev
<crimsun> yes, dapper-backports is affected.
<jdong> that is not a space after >=, that is a tabstop
<jdong> which causes pbuilder to error out
<jdong> can someone change that to a space and upload?
<imbrandon> jdong, its in libgnome2-dev ?
<jdong> imbrandon: that is correct
* imbrandon looks
<jdong> that's xchat-gnome, where libgnome2-dev is, on the build-dep line
<imbrandon> crimsun, ahh but shouldent -security over power ( better word? ) -backports
<imbrandon> jdong, what? ok, what source package do i need to grab ?
<jdong> imbrandon: not if backports has a newer version.... security version bumps are usually very miniscule... :-/
<jdong> imbrandon: xchat-gnome
<imbrandon> ok
<StevenK> imbrandon: s/over power/trump/
<imbrandon> StevenK, yea :)
<jdong> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.0), gnome-pkg-tools, autotools-dev, cdbs, libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.12), libgtk2.0-dev (>= 2.10), libgnome2-dev (>= 2.16.0),
<crimsun> what's wrong with xchat-gnome's debian/control.in?
<jdong> the space after "libgnome2-dev (>=" is actually a tab, hexdump says :)
<jdong> crimsun: there's a tab instead of a space
<StevenK> jdong: cat -A ?
<jdong> StevenK: thanks :)
<jdong>  libgnome2-dev (>=^I2.16.0),
<StevenK> I daresay, pbuilder should just cope.
<jdong> well, it doesn't
<imbrandon> hrm looking at it its definately a space ......
<crimsun> no, it's definitely a tab
<jdong> imbrandon: no it's not :)
<imbrandon> *puzzled*
<imbrandon> hrm
<jdong> imbrandon: cat -A, or hexdump it
<imbrandon> ok
<crimsun> (use -T, or -A for great justice)
<jdong> that's gotta be the most interesting bug I've encountered :)
<crimsun> that's arguably a bug in pbuilder, as StevenK says
<jdong> lol :)
<crimsun> debian/control* are fine
<imbrandon> soooo should i "fix" this in xchat-gnome or ?
<jdong> crimsun: well I guess a tab should be an acceptable whitespace character
<StevenK> If dpkg-gencontrol can cope, then pbuilder ought to.
<jdong> imbrandon: please fix it in xchat-gnome.... :-/
<jdong> for the sake of consistency
<crimsun> it's not an xchat-gnome bug, seriously
<jdong> you don't see anyone else using tabs instead of space in debian/control... :d
<StevenK> jdong: Don't make me log into merkel.debian.org and check the Debian archive.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<jdong> urr, alright.... should I file this as a pbuilder bug then?!?
<jdong> (so I was bored and I replaced all the spaces with tabs in debian/control, and now the package won't build....)
<imbrandon> ok i'll uplaod the "fix" for xchat-gnome , if you promis to file a pbuilder bug in debian BTS
<StevenK> My opinion is a bug on pbuilder should be filed, and the problem worked around in xchat-gnome.
<imbrandon> jdong, ^^
<jdong> imbrandon: ok, deal :d
<jdong> imbrandon: and with proftpd, dapper-backports is affected
<jdong> imbrandon: dapper-backports has a backported proftpd from edgy
<imbrandon> jdong, yea crimsun told me, it should still be uploaded to -security imho but thats upto yall
<jdong> mmm, ok
<jdong> well, if it can be worked out with security team to upload a version that overrides -backports, I'm ok with that
<Lathiat> imbrandon: to dapper-security?
<imbrandon> Lathiat, yes
<Lathiat> thats bogus else it'l upgrades everyones proftpd that dont want backports?
<imbrandon> Lathiat, e.g that would require the one in dapper proper to be patched and the one in -backports to get rebackported from edgy-security
<Lathiat> oh right
<Lathiat> that makes senes
<Lathiat> i thought you meant put the edgy version in dapper-security
<imbrandon> no :)
<crimsun> yeah, we could all go for some feisty beryl in breezy-security
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> oh wtf, ok jdong this might take a bit longer than i thought
<jdong> what happened?
<imbrandon> one sec, i'm checking on another box if it is my booboo or the package has more issues than just that
<Lathiat> crimsun: woo, 
<crimsun> oh very nice. quodlibet just exploded to demonstrate what it thought of my beryl statement.
<jdong> LOL
<imbrandon> ok jdong , uploaded ( it was my booboo )
<imbrandon> xchat-gnome (1:0.15-0ubuntu2) feisty; urgency=low
<imbrandon>   * fixed a tab vs whitespace typo in debian/control to please pbuilder
<jdong> imbrandon: many thanks
<imbrandon> np, now you have to file the pbuilder bug in Debian BTS ( lots o luck :P )
<crimsun> skimming the bugs against it on BTS make me think it's full o' blackmagick
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> imbrandon: just did... I think at least
<imbrandon> yea their BTS is slowish, it takes a while to showup when you send a mail
<jdong> ok
<jdong> well at the same time I guess I'll play with pbuilder-satisfydepends and see if I can come up with a fix....
<jdong> or maybe I should finish this project with a thursday deadline...
<imbrandon> btw does anyone know if we're gonna import iceweazle to universe from debian ?
<imbrandon> jdong, would be super cool once you get a debian BTS # you file a LP bug with the upstream bug voodoo stuff
<jdong> imbrandon: will do :)
<imbrandon> so we know too :)
<jdong> oh crap! forgot to enable extra swap
<jdong> whew, got it
<jdong> stupid tmpfs :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: meaning 'iceweasel'? I'd be very, very sad if so.
<imbrandon> yea thats what i ment, and i just mean for uni , not main
<crimsun> I mean, I just created an mplayerplug-in delta just to s/iceweasel/firefox/
<imbrandon> yea , i think it would be alot of harm
<imbrandon> imho
<imbrandon> but i was curious
<imbrandon> ( kinda trying to catch up since this week with the new job trying to adjust to my hours, i'm not as "filled in" heheh )
<imbrandon> gah i need to find my win98 cd to make a vm, brb
* minghua wonders what will happen if he gets both firefox and iceweasel installed (assuming iceweasel gets imported to universe)
<crimsun> you get an iceweasel and a firefox
<minghua> that's assuming no file conflicts
<crimsun> it makes foo/debian/*.links lots of fun!
<minghua> otherwise I get an iceweasel and half a firefox or something
<minghua> and I can imagine the agony of plugin maintainers (a.k.a. crimsun :-)
<imbrandon> hrm can i make an iso ( useable ) "dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/blah/some.iso" ?
<imbrandon> or is there a batter way
<imbrandon> better*
<StevenK> imbrandon: That's simple, and should work fine
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> thanks
<jdong> btw, can xchat 2.6.8 be synced from debian sid?
<jdong> closes bug 57951
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<Hobbsee> !info xchat feisty
<ubotu> xchat: IRC client for X similar to AmIRC. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.6.6-0ubuntu3 (edgy), package size 275 kB, installed size 760 kB
<Hobbsee> jdong: it needs to be merged, most likely
<jdong> Hobbsee: mmm, I see
<imbrandon> http://merges.ubuntu.com/x/xchat/REPORT
<jdong> bleh
<lastnode> imbrandon, seen Fujitsu around? he's been missing for a few days
<crimsun> eh? He last spoke about 16 hours ago.
<lastnode> oh, i just keep missing him then
<lastnode> meh
<jdong> imbrandon: waah, how do I link a debbug in launchpad
<jdong> it doesn't seem to accept http://bugs.debian.org/400848
<jdong> as an upstream tracker URL
<Burgundavia> just enter the bug number
<jdong> oh
<jdong> Burgundavia: it still hates me
<jdong> LP doesn't know what kind of bug tracker....
<Burgundavia> bug #?
<jdong> debian bug 400848
<Ubugtu> Debian bug 400848 in pbuilder "pbuilder-satisfydepends chokes on tab characters" [Unknown,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/400848
<Hobbsee> tell it which type of bug tracker
<Burgundavia> no, LP bug number
<jdong> oh bug 73688
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73688 in pbuilder "pbuilder-satisfydepends can't cope with tab characters" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73688
<jdong> maybe I'm just retarded and am missing an obvious button to do this
<Burgundavia> see the "also affects"?
<Burgundavia> choose distro task
<Burgundavia> hmm
<jdong> Burgundavia: that's what I did
<jdong> and it doesn't take any of the obvious formats I could think of
<Burgundavia> then add no bug url
<Burgundavia> then click on it and enter in the bug number
<jdong> oh I can do that?
<Burgundavia> yes, that is a bug in LP
<Burgundavia> pleae file it
<jdong> Burgundavia: ok, will do
<jdong> foled; bug 73689
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73689 in launchpad "Malone doesn't take Debian bug tracker URL's" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73689
* Burgundavia goes to drown compiz in bug reports
<Burgundavia> ok, compiz sucks
<ajmitch> news at 11
<ajmitch> what does it suck with this time?
<Burgundavia> I am attempting to drown compiz in bugs, to prevent it from being included by default
<Burgundavia> care to join me?
<ajmitch> you'd prefer beryl then?>
<Burgundavia> no, I will do the same with beryl, if and when it gets packaged
<Burgundavia> I am basically going to dunc-bank AcceleratedX and CompositeByDefault
<Burgundavia> 5 bugs reported alraedy
<ajmitch> upstream or on launchpad?
<ajmitch> workspaces is obvious - it's an upstream feature
<ajmitch> lost window borders is probably your xorg configuration
<Burgundavia> LP
<Burgundavia> I am filing bugs if it works in Metacity and doesn't in compiz
<Burgundavia> very simple
<Burgundavia> no effects turned on, merely compiz instead of metacity
<ajmitch> no matter if the bugreports are useful & have enough information or not
<Burgundavia> don't much care
* ajmitch goes to reject some
<ajmitch> hi lastnode 
<ajmitch> sigh
<ajmitch> hi LaserJock 
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<LaserJock> hi Burgundavia 
<LaserJock> and good luck ;-)
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I am looking at quite simply. If you want to swap out compiz for metacity, it has better work
<ajmitch> with?
<Burgundavia> sorry, yes
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: I'm looking at it from a POV of having 20K open bugs already
<Burgundavia> I realize that
<ajmitch> if you don't want to provide the info, I'll reject 
<Burgundavia> I will happily provide the info
<LaserJock> is the idea really to replace metacity with beryl/compiz as the default WM?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that is what has been discussed
<ajmitch> undecided as yet
<ajmitch> I'm happy enough with metacity
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes, provided compiz or beryl are good enough
<LaserJock> I just thought it was an add-on bling layer
<Burgundavia> hence my project of drowning compiz in bug reports
<ajmitch> LaserJock: spec is named composite-by-default
<Burgundavia> and you cannot have composite without a compositing wm
<theCore> Burgundavia, uh? drowning compiz in bug report????
<LaserJock> I thought metacity could do compositing
<Burgundavia> badly
<Burgundavia> theCore: if compiz is not technically good enough, then it will not be used by default
<LaserJock> what about kwin?
<ajmitch> they've pretty much given up on metacity as compositing manager
<LaserJock> or is that still what they call it
<theCore> Burgundavia, ah, well
<Burgundavia> part of "good enough" == respecting metacity's settings
<ajmitch> which is a definite goal of compiz at least
<Burgundavia> next I am going to download a crapload of themes and find some that break
<ajmitch> the decision will be made around feature freeze
* Burgundavia is going to have fun
<LaserJock> but it doesn't even look like a WM?!?
<LaserJock> I'm really suprised
<Burgundavia> and here is the fun part: if compiz or beryl are not up to snuff, there is no reason to install nvidia drivers by default
<Burgundavia> hence no binary drivers
<Burgundavia> I intend to blog this plan later int he week
<theCore> ah, now I understand your evil plans :)
<Burgundavia> if I have to be evil to save do good, I will
<LaserJock> what about ATI in all of this
<Burgundavia> ati drivers don't work with aiglx
<LaserJock> I thought ATI did compositing too
<theCore> I could probably help you with that :D
<theCore> LaserJock, only with Xgl
<LaserJock> :(
<Burgundavia> I cannot decide whether to tell people to duplicate bug reports to be annoying, or is that too evil?
<LaserJock> I swear I did it without Xgl
<LaserJock> does the opensource ATI driver do it?
<Burgundavia> yes, they do
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: that's a big headache, it'd be better to say "add a comment if you agree"
<Burgundavia> all open source drivers work with compiz
<imbrandon> ati works just fine with aiglx if you use the opensource driver
<theCore> Burgundavia, here one bug for Beryl: go in Advanced Settings -> Force Xgl
<theCore> Burgundavia, very evil bug
<theCore> Burgundavia, it kills the desktop 
<Burgundavia> only file on the packages in the repos
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, that must be what I did
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ATI drivers are currently the worst of the lot
<Burgundavia> is your card a r300 or earlier?
<imbrandon> LaserJock, nothing, its all on by default with the ati driver, just use start compiz or beryl
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: with regards to your hatred of binary drivers which I somewhat share, I've started helping out the nouveau project
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I love you
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: got a dvd in the wishlist?
<ajmitch> nope
<LaserJock> I have an x1600 ATI card
<ajmitch> I've only had 1 very very minor patch so far
<lastnode> hi ajmitch, sup
<LaserJock> anyway, all I know is I got the silly wobbly windows without Xgl
<Burgundavia> think of a dvd and I will get you it
<Burgundavia> wierd
<Burgundavia> x1600 don't even have free 2d drivesr
<ajmitch> only because ati/amd have been stalling
<Burgundavia> yes
<LaserJock> yep
<ajmitch> and not letting dave airlie release the code he wrote
<Burgundavia> airlie has code?
<LaserJock> oh wait, I got the wobbly windows on my laptop
<LaserJock> that's an ATI 7000 IGP
<Burgundavia> which is the r300 driver
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: I need a good automated way of stress testing a wm
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: http://airlied.livejournal.com/31180.html
<LaserJock> I *have* to use the binary-only driver on the x1600
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: see date, subtract 4 months
<ajmitch> so it's march or so that he wrote code
<ajmitch> I don't know how to stress test a WM
<Burgundavia> would creating lots of windows and then moving them around, resizing them, etc. do it?
<ajmitch> maybe
<Burgundavia> hmm
<ajmitch> it's al lthe little things like compatibilty with old apps that new WMs suck on
<ajmitch> focus stealing prevention, etc
<Burgundavia> ah
<ajmitch> writing a basic WM is easy
<ajmitch> writing a good one is hard
<lastnode> one problem i had with compiz was that it would open windows under my top gnome panel
<Burgundavia> jdub commented on not throwing out 10 years of code
<lastnode> which was annoying
<Burgundavia> however, it appears that distros havfe decided to do exactly that
<Burgundavia> so far the only effect that is at all interesting is the menu popups and they are slow enough to annoy me, while being only marginally more pretty
<ajmitch> agreed
<ajmitch> the delay is usually enough to be annoying
<Burgundavia> so I need to dig out some old, frequently used apps
<lastnode> Burgundavia, you can disable that effect, i did.
<Burgundavia> plus the fadin means you get a jumble of letters for a second, as they overlay what ever is there
<Burgundavia> lastnode: I am filing bugs on the pure stock default
<lastnode> while it's fading in, if you click, you lose the menu
<lastnode> it's _really_ annoying at 3am when you're trying to shutdown :\
<Burgundavia> my test audience is my father and step mother, neither of whom could give a toss about fancy effects
<Burgundavia> which means they are going to get eh pure default
<Burgundavia> and I can tell you that this sliding thing on workspace change is already driving me nuts
<Burgundavia> 8 bug reports
<lastnode> Burgundavia, got a sec for a /query?
<theCore> Burgundavia, are you testing everything with the feisty packages? 
<Burgundavia> when you switch workspaces in metacity, it remembers the default active window, correct?
<ajmitch> I think so
<Burgundavia> yes, compiz is odd
<Burgundavia> if I switch to the active window on 3, the windows on 2 and 4 will be unselected
<Burgundavia> if I select it on 4, the window on 3 will become unfocused, etc.
<Burgundavia> lastnode: yep
<Burgundavia> theCore: pure default feisty
<theCore> I think that one more bug...
* StevenK straces solarwolf, and determines that it's spinning around in futexes, and sighs.
<theCore> Burgundavia, crashed?
<StevenK> Or hung with a zap?
<StevenK> This is what you get for running a graphical IRC client. :-P
<Burgundavia> no, nasty bug
<Burgundavia> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/73701
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73701 in compiz "Oddity with remembering default active window" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* ajmitch detaches 
<Burgundavia> read the 2nd comment
<Burgundavia> that was what just bit me
<theCore> ah, I see
<Burgundavia> right, I see now
<Burgundavia> it is because compiz has no workspaces, only views
<Burgundavia> if a window pokes into two "workspaces", it is still considered active
<LaserJock> yes, isn't that a "feature" or something
<Burgundavia> yes, except it is utterly different than metacity and does not appear to be any better
<theCore> Burgundavia, which instructions did you followed for installing compiz/beryl? the ones on the wiki?
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that "is not metacitiy" is a proper bug
<Burgundavia> it is for this instance
<Burgundavia> because, remember, compiz must transparently replace metacity
<Burgundavia> that is very explicitly written in the spec
<Burgundavia> it looks like a whole class of "compiz doing dumb things" can be closed by simply switching back to metacity style workspaces
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> here is a nice fun bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/73704
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73704 in compiz "Window titles stop updating" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
<Burgundavia> what the?
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure that's right...
<Burgundavia> no, it isn't
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ubuntu-es]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Amaranth]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Amaranth]  by ChanServ
<Amaranth> wtf
<Amaranth> i'm not in the access list?
* ajmitch returns
<Amaranth> that...looks bad
<Amaranth> i don't have lvl 10 access but i can op/deop
<Hawkwind> Hah
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Hawkwind]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Hawkwind]  by ChanServ
<Hawkwind> Definitely broken
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Burgundavia]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o ubuntu-es]  by Burgundavia
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Burgundavia]  by Burgundavia
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: did you get many responses to your blog post?
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: a half dozen
<ajmitch> not bad
<dholbach> good morning
<isaric_> How to connecte with login here http://revu.tauware.de/index.py ( http://isaric.cof.free.fr/eot.png )
<crimsun> did you read the REVU pages on the wiki?
<superm1> imbrandon, ping
<ajmitch> morning dholbach!
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<isaric_> crimsun, yes but I don't understand all! I perhaps lost the password and i try recorer : http://isaric.cof.free.fr/eot.png , without result!
<crimsun> isaric_: you may need an admin to reset it by hand
<isaric_> I think its here to tell at a admin !
<isaric_> I try with admin@tiber.tauware.de
<ajmitch> isaric_: I've checked, I can decrypt my own password, you have a password in the database there, so I don't know why it returns None for you
<ajmitch> isaric_: can you retry now please?
<isaric_> login for user "isaric" failed, please retry or recover
<ajmitch> yes, retry recovery
<isaric_> gpg: chiffr avec une cl de 1024 bits ELG-E, ID 02383233, cre le 2006-11-17
<isaric_>        isaric Co (cl dpkg) <isaric.co@free.fr> 
<isaric_> None
<isaric_> isaric@acer:~$ 
<ajmitch> ok, thanks for testing anyway
<isaric_> gpg: chiffr avec une cl de 1024 bits ELG-E, ID 02383233, cre le 2006-11-17
<isaric_>        isaric Co (cl dpkg) <isaric.co@free.fr> 
<isaric_> None
<isaric_> isaric@acer:~$ 
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> heya proppy
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<proppy> hoy
<sivang> morning !
* proppy wants to upload more packages !
<proppy> dholbach: can i ask you a cdbs question ? that was not covered in your 101 session ?
<dholbach> proppy: fire away
<proppy> is it advised to use cdbs, on a project that isn't autotoolized, or should i stick to a basic rules : binary : install : method ?
<isaric_> I must leave, i send email at admin
<dholbach> "is it advised to use cdbs" - this depends on who you ask
<proppy> you :)
<dholbach> I prefer to use it, others despise it
<proppy> s/advised/possible ?
<dholbach> you have files that need to be installed somewhere, and there's no makefile and stuff?
<proppy> there is makefile and stuff
<sivang> dholbach: I'm always moving between despise and love to it :)
<dholbach> sivang: :-)
<proppy> but no autoconf --install ./configure stuff
<proppy> maybe i should read a bit cdbs code
<proppy> to scale what it capable to do
<proppy> +is
<dholbach> proppy: right. you can stop the ./configure call from happening - let me try to look it up
<proppy> ok
<proppy> cause i got plenty of stuff to package
<sivang> hi proppy , new to the MOTU team?
<proppy> that have funky teenage build system
<proppy> (like scons)
<proppy> :)
<proppy> or some premake.lua (beurk)
<dholbach> oh
<dholbach> there's a cdbs module for scons
<sivang> re: teenagne build system, haha
<proppy> sivang: new to ubuntu things :)
<proppy> sivang: just uploaded my first package to revu
<dholbach> proppy: for scons, you can take a look at telepathy-inspector - it uses it
<sivang> oh cool :)
<proppy> and looking forward uploading all the (debian) package we have at work
<proppy> ok thanks dholbach :)
<proppy> dholbach: i would be glad if you can gimme pointer on a simple cdbs that only call a command, that generate some file, and copy them somewhere
<proppy> dholbach: if you remember it easily, else i will search up my own :)
<dholbach> just use debhelper.mk and debian/install to install files
<dholbach> if you need to call something in one of the targets, just do it -- https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS has some examples
<proppy> dholbach: thanks for the link ! :)
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
* dholbach goes back to prepare the motu talk
<proppy> sivang: i don't know by the way, if beeing makes me part of the motu team, does it matter ?
<proppy> beeing+here
<proppy> dholbach: good luck
<sivang> proppy: I think so :)
<dholbach> thanks
<sivang> proppy: where do you work? what sort of packages are you building at work if I may ask ?
<proppy> dholbach: i'm sorry i won't attend this one, got to install some poker server in a free.fr data center :)
<dholbach> a poker server :-)
<dholbach> i'll give it again on saturday
<proppy> sivang: http://pokersource.info/
<proppy> we are making a 3d poker client
<dholbach> ah nice
<proppy> and a 2d one :)
<sivang> proppy: nice
<sivang> what are you using server side?
<proppy> all the stuff is packaged for debian/fedora/ubuntu
<proppy> all the stuff is gpl
<proppy> (instead of the 3d data :()
<proppy> :( :( :(
<proppy> sivang: our server :)
<dholbach> but it's cool you want to get involved with the MOTUs
<dholbach> if you need anything, let me know
<proppy> i looking forward linking our packaging-farm
<proppy> to the revu publishing mecanism
<proppy> as the debian guy here is linked to the debian upload system
<proppy> sivang: you can take a look at the server too
<proppy> check poker-network on http://pokersource.info/developers/index.php
<proppy> and i'm looking forward the integration of our 2d client in ubuntu by default,
<dholbach> :-)
<proppy> to be the buddy of the chess client :)
<sivang> proppy: hehe, very nice. Are you using PHP server side?
<Burgundavia> proppy: the best place for a poker client would be with gnome-games upstream
<proppy> Burgundavia: thanks for the hint
<proppy> sivang: for the poker-service ?
<Burgundavia> you are much more likely to get it included if it comes with a developer or two and is already pretty clean code, etc.
<proppy> Burgundavia: reading the gnome-games how to get involved thing :)
<proppy> Burgundavia: are all the game in ubuntu desktop from gnome-games ?
<sivang> proppy: yeah
<proppy> sivang: yeah sivang: for the poker-service ? or yeah are all the game in ubuntu desktop from
<proppy>                gnome-games ?
<proppy> ? :)
<sivang> proppy: seems so, you can check what is shipped by default through the seeds: https://code.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.feisty
<Burgundavia> proppy: all games on the default desktop are from gnome-games
<sivang> proppy: IIRC there should be ship seed which determines what a users gets by default after installation
* proppy hugs sivang Burgundavia
<proppy> sivang: server and client side is python
<proppy> sivang: and they share a lots of code
<proppy> sivang: (so the 3d client)
<sivang> proppy: ah, nice
<Lathiat> hrm
<Lathiat> "can i sell ubuntu cds on ebay"
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: planner is in debian. sync at will. :)
<\sh> moins
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<\sh> Ubuntu Package Archive Administrators is the right person to assign sync requests to, right? because searching for ubuntu-archive it gives me two answers
<crimsun> ubuntu-archive should be subscribed to sync requests, yes, not assigned to. colin and scott tend to become very miffed in the latter.
<\sh> I subscribed..but now you search for ubuntu-archive and have two answers...which is the right one
<ajmitch> this driver is great, probably about the 5th reboot tonight :)
<crimsun> \sh: ubuntu-archive@lists.uc
<\sh> crimsun: thx used the right one *phew*
<ruilobao> hi, i am a python programmer and i want to help ubuntu coding. how can i help ubuntu using my programming skills ?
<crimsun> ruilobao: have you read the contributing page?
<ruilobao> crimsun, ya. but it dosent report nothing about python project in ubuntu. there is some list, channel especific to the ubuntu python projects ?
<crimsun> ruilobao: no, but feel free to check bounties and the bug tracker
<ruilobao> crimsun, ok ;) thanks!
<dholbach> ruilobao: but it'd be great to see a Ubuntu Python team evolving
<dholbach> I'm sure that there'd be a hell of a lot of people who would get involved there
<ruilobao> dholbach, an especific list would be good too. 
<dholbach> ruilobao: first the team needed to have a common goal and people willing to work on them
<dholbach> somebody needs to start creating that vision and gather people around it
<ruilobao> dholbach, sure. there are a lot of python programmers on the ubuntu community.
<dholbach> absolutely
* proppy just found out of C-c C-f in python emacs mode
<ruilobao> dholbach, there is some place where we can propose it ?
<mnepton> https://launchpad.net/people/python
<dholbach> what I did, when I formed a team, was 1) starting wiki pages, 2) call people for an online meeting, 3) some more technical organisation
<dholbach> it'd help to subscribe the python team to python bugs
<dholbach> that should be part of that vision
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/python/+packagebugs
<dholbach> the team is not subscribed to any packages' bugs
<ruilobao> dholbach, hum. great groups. thanks.
<dholbach> once you set up some wiki pages with your ideas for such a team and created an agenda for the meeting, i'd call for participation on ubuntu-devel@
<ruilobao> dholbach, i will sit down this weekend and make the proposal.
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python2.4/+subscribe would be a first step :-)
<dholbach> and talk to doko about it
<dholbach> he'll be interested
<dholbach> (amongst others)
<dholbach> ruilobao: thanks for stepping up for that task - you rock
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<ruilobao> dholbach, thanks. i will work hard on it. 
* dholbach hugs ruilobao
<dholbach> ruilobao: let me know, if you need any help or an opinion
<ruilobao> dholbach, sure. i will write the proposal this weekend and look for people interested in helping.
<dholbach> nice - let's make python rock in Ubuntu! :-)
<ruilobao> with sure ;) !
<dholbach> :-)
<fernando> revu sending empty messages?
<Gloubiboulga> fernando: a spam I guess
<sivang> ruilobao: I have a project that desperately needs lots of python love :)
<sivang> ruilobao: and it's an ubuntu projekt as well;)
<ruilobao> sivang, witch one ?
<ruilobao> sivang, :)
<sivang> ruilobao: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/home-user-backup
<sivang> ruilobao: https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/hubackup--main
<sivang> ruilobao: (for the current HEAD )
<sivang> ruilobao: would be great if we could get it polished, tested and enabled with desktop notifications for feisty.
<ruilobao> sivang, great idea! i am reading the specs.
<sivang> ruilobao: cool :)
<ruilobao> sivang, wow! great, i liked a lot.
<sivang> glad you like it! Are you happy to step up and help us get there? :)
* sivang has put alot of work, thought and hours into that, would LOVE to see more people get involved in helping on something which is both important, and fun to hack on :)
<ruilobao> sivang, of course! i want really to help.
<sivang> ruilobao: okay, so the top level major tasks we need to accomplish are, in short:
<sivang> 1) add the support for the desktop notifications to be delivered to the user based on the last time he backed up , and weather he backed up all his home or only subset of it (we only bug him for complete home folder backup)
<sivang> 2) Finish the new mime type support workflow: this is aplit to 2 tasks actually, (A) adapt the backup and restore/verify functionality to use backup meta data files instead of the old, non mime type based way (I already did some perliminary adjustment to backup and diffbackup, needs testing and more love)
<sivang> (B) hack the packaging to register the hubackup's mime type for both diff/full backup
<sivang> 3) Run a fine tune / fine finnish run and make sure all possible failure and errors are propogated and dealt with - make sure DVD/CD multi sessions for diff backups are working, protect against errors in which a backup has failed in integrity testing and needs redoing etc
<sivang> and there are a bit more in the TODO ;)
<sivang> (some parts of the TODO might need updating as I am closing them as I go)
<sivang> the work is spread across a backend, utility and frontend cores
<sivang> note that (2) involved fixing hurestore and make it work the new way , using the new UI designed in UDS Paris.
<ruilobao> sivang ;) great. you have done a lot of good work already :). 
<sivang> ruilobao: so, there's lots pf stuff and for any taste, what is your fancy? :)
<sivang> ruilobao: if you have feisty installed, install it and see the new backup window
<sivang> ruilobao: there is already another dude named Martin Bergner who helps quite a bit on the backend part, he helped fix some detection problems and IIRC started something to allow burning to DVDRW /DVD + multi session. (basically requires wrapping dvd+rw tools in the python backend CDBurner.py)
<sivang> however, another person that loves python coding and is enthusiastic to help would be great :-D
<ruilobao> sivang, i m using edgy, not feisty yet. i liked the (1) to work with :)
<ruilobao> but i would love to work on any part. 
<sivang> ruilobao: okay, do you want to start with it? it would be rocking to have this ready already 
<sivang> ruilobao: if you finish you could then join me to finish the new workflow stuff, I'm currently working on make hurestore not crash due to changes in UI definitions, then I will start refactoring how it calls the bakcend to use the new meta data file based restore/verify/update
<ruilobao> sivang, now i am at work, so soon i get at home i will download the code and check where i can hack :)
<sivang> ruilobao: very cool! make sure you ping me whenever you have questions or email me if I'm away
<sivang> ruilobao: latest I shall respond in 4-5 hours
<sivang> ruilobao: but I'm usually here
<sivang> ruilobao: this is an exciting project, and many people already anticipate it , we could rock it together ;)
<ruilobao> sivang, i loved the UI.
<ruilobao> sivang, i am ansious to see the code.
<ruilobao> *anxious
<sivang> ruilobao: :)
<ruilobao> sivang, i will do some work now and later will give a look at the code. any doubt or propose i will send to your email, ok ?
<tenshu> hi all
* Hobbsee waves
<lastnode_> Fujitsu, ping
<CypherBIOS> hello there. I did my first upload to revu, and now I would like to know what I need to do now (if there). The upload is this http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581
<jonh_wendell> Hi, CypherBIOS 
<CypherBIOS> It will be reviwed by someone?
<CypherBIOS> jonh_wendell: good to see you ;)
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: those depends are all wrong.
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, can you review my package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3526
* Hobbsee will give some feedback on the first one
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: what's wrong, necessary?!
<StevenK> CypherBIOS: And the package seems badly made. The entire debian/ directory should be in the diff.gz, not the orig tarball
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ahh, so that's waht it is
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: the debian directory already is on the original tarball (it comes with source code of this package)
<StevenK> There are ways of dealing with that.
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: this program is developed by me :)
<StevenK> Then it should be packaged natively
<StevenK> It doesn't have to contain -0ubuntu1
<CypherBIOS> humm...
<StevenK> Why are you depending on lsb-release?
<StevenK> It's Priority: important
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: the code uses lsb-release to know what distribuition are running
<StevenK> How about dpkg-dev, for that matter?
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: http://aptoncd.sourceforge.net
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: it's a APT-like tool to create a CD/DVD-repository based for apt
<CypherBIOS> uses your cache to do it ;)
<StevenK> What about apt-zip? Have you looked at that?
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: trusth me, aren't nothing like aptoncd yet :)
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581 will do for a start...
<StevenK> CypherBIOS: I'm unconvinced.
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: well, the program already developed now. I can't back :)
* StevenK introduces CypherBIOS to 'rm' :-P
* StevenK twitches at debian/postinst
<StevenK> Whatever gave you the idea of ln -s /usr/share/aptoncd/aptoncd.py /usr/bin/aptoncd in the POSTINST?
<StevenK> Waaah!
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: it's commented
<StevenK> Sure, but it was in there at some point.
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: before I debianized the package
<StevenK> Uh? It's in debian/postinst, how can it be from before you debianized the package?
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: is for it that I'm here, to know how can I made the package correctly
<StevenK> There's a now bunch of suggestions on REVU.
<StevenK> s/\(a\) \(now\)/\2 \1/
<jonh_wendell> StevenK or Hobbsee  , can you review my package now? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3526
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: i'm looking at it
<Hobbsee> then i'll let steve :P
<crimsun> ouch, 2x gauntlet
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: "No .desktop file or menu file. " is there a aptoncd.desktop on the package/source
<Hobbsee> not sure.  if not, you could always create one.  always fun for hte user to attempt to locate the program when it doesnt have a desktop file
<Hobbsee> and you do want your user to run your program/
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: but, the aptoncd.desktop already is there, and the binary pacakage that I've made includes this (generate an entry on System>Administration>APTonCD) :)
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: on the Makefile have instructions to install it on /usr/share/applications, as usual
<StevenK> Are you sure that's where your users will look?
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: is there a lot of documentation to let then know that is there
<StevenK> Which they will need to look for.
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: have you any sugestion?
<StevenK> None.
<CypherBIOS> so...
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: I'm wrong about the desktop file?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: where does one actually put the menu file in debian/rules so it's recognised?  my brain seems to be terrible tonight.
<StevenK> As in dh_installmenu or what?
<Hobbsee> oh yeah
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: "oh yeah" = "you did an mistake" ? :)
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: at this time of night, it wouldnt surprise me.  i just noticed it's absense, but didnt look higher.
<jonh_wendell> :)
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: there you go :)
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: ;)
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: well, dh_installmenu might exist, but you certainly didnt call it
<CypherBIOS> humm
<Hobbsee> seeing as it's commented out :P
<StevenK> Score: Hobbsee: 1, CypherBIOS: 0
<Hobbsee> hehe
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, are you a native english speaker?
<jonh_wendell> hehe
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: yeah, i am :)
<StevenK> Well, she tries to be.
* StevenK ducks.
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: i looked at it, looked again, and seriously just went "what?"
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<Hobbsee> steve is too, he likes to help
<zul> ahhh no pointy stick?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: hey look, we're actually REVUing stuff
* StevenK smirks.
<Hobbsee> zul: nah, our comments are doing that.
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<dholbach> you ROCK
* Hobbsee hugs dholbach 
<StevenK> dholbach: I would be commenting, but I can't recover my password.
<dholbach> ngngngngn
<Hobbsee> dholbach: feel like REVUing too?
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, fala is just a frontend to festival, which allows you to hear any word or setence you type
<dholbach> StevenK: couldn't ajmitch, \sh_away, siretart or sistpoty help you?
* StevenK thinks dholbach would have been slightly better off not knowing that.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: i'll give a MOTU talk in a bit
<crimsun> mez can, too
<Hobbsee> ahh
<crimsun> (he reset mine)
<StevenK> dholbach: I have no idea, I haven't cared enough to ask yet. :-P
<crimsun> I believe Gloubiboulga has admin on revu, too
<dholbach> StevenK: GO GO GO! :)
<StevenK> All of which are not here.
<crimsun> raphink: revu admin ping for StevenK? :)
<raphink> yep?
<raphink> what's up?
<StevenK> Drat, dholbach didn't mention raphink. :-)
<StevenK> raphink: Can you reset my password, pretty please?
<raphink> revu password?
* StevenK flutters his eyelashes at raphink.
<StevenK> raphink: Yup.
* dholbach hugs raphink
<raphink> sure
<StevenK> The web interface said my password was 'None'. Which was nice of it.
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: updated with a suggestion.  it's better, but it is late at night here
<raphink> what's the email used for your account?
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, are you gonna sleep?
<StevenK> Supposedly, stevenk@ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: soonish
<jonh_wendell> thanks, Hobbsee 
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: I do not want later you sleep :) but, I have an question
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: :)
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: shoot.  steve can answer it
<CypherBIOS> [many question, really]  :P
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: tnx
<crimsun> ooh, nice handoff, Hobbsee!
* StevenK refuses, just because he can.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<elkbuntu> StevenK, did you give hobbsee her surprise yet?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: remember that i see you on friday.  i'll bring my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
<StevenK> elkbuntu: ^
<Hobbsee> no, but i know what it is :D
<Hobbsee> thanks elky :)
<elkbuntu> :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: it's called delegation, it's a great skill
* Hobbsee blames mnepton 
* Hobbsee makes mnepton review
<Hobbsee> especially when you delegate to random people!
* dholbach hugs elkbuntu too
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, for the love of cute pink bunnies, please dont make him *any* more insane than he is already :
* elkbuntu huggles dholbach
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hahaha
<dholbach> right :)
<Hobbsee> mm...cute pink bunnies...
* elkbuntu offers Hobbsee a kitten instead.
* StevenK wonders if that makes him insane.
* Hobbsee happily pets the kitten
<CypherBIOS> StevenK: this application is python-based program, so, dont need compilation. How can I get the dependencies on automatic way if do not put then on control file manually?
<raphink> StevenK: I seem to fail to reset your password
* Hobbsee backs away from the killer rabbit
<StevenK> raphink: Neat.
<StevenK> raphink: No REVU for me, then? :-P
<raphink> StevenK: I changed it, it says it was changed, but it wasn't
<elkbuntu> damnit... she can see the razor-sharp steel teeth
<raphink> StevenK: I'll try to figure out what's happening
<StevenK> raphink: Okay.
<StevenK> Lala lala, I broke REVU.
* StevenK wasn't even trying to
<raphink> hmmm
<raphink> siretart: ping
<siretart> raphink: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<raphink> :)
<StevenK> Muahaha
<raphink> huhu
<raphink> :p
<StevenK> Well, that was pointless.
<raphink> indeed
<raphink> but he's probably the only one who can figure out
<StevenK> We could start calling siretart Mithrandir, but that would get confusing.
<raphink> or ajmitch maybe
<StevenK> raphink: I do actually have a REVU account, right?
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: hehe, of course i did
<raphink> that's a good question
<raphink> StevenK: I just checked with a random account, it gives the same result
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, shold i remove python-gtk2 from 'Depends' if i already have ${shlibs:Depends}, ${python:Depends} ?
<raphink> so it seems you don't StevenK :)
<StevenK> Heh
<raphink> did you ever upload?
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: no, it won't be added automatically
<StevenK> I'm in ubuntu-universe-contributors by way of being in ubuntu-dev...
<raphink> yes
<raphink> but did you ever upload to revu?
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: {python:Depends} only adds the current python version
<raphink> using that email
<StevenK> raphink: Nope. Do I need to?
<raphink> yes StevenK
<raphink> it's written in the doc ;)
<StevenK> There's a document?
<raphink> your account is created the first time you upload
<raphink> check the wiki
<StevenK> First time I've heard about it. :-P
<raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, see: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5.0.0),python-gtk2-dev,python2.4-dev
<raphink> cmon
<raphink> like you can't search the wiki ;)
<jonh_wendell> is it right, dholbach ?
<StevenK> I guessed the URL about 10 seconds before you typed it, so nyah.
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, Depends: ${misc:Depends}, ${shlibs:Depends}, ${python:Depends}, python-gtk2, festival
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: that depends on the package, you will also need python-central or python-support
<dholbach> I'd rather use python-all-dev
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, no, it's not necessary
<dholbach> it spares you the pain of doing uploads just for a transition
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, i'm asking this because the comments made by Hobbsee, see: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3526
<dholbach> but that's your choice
<elkbuntu> g'nite. dont break us too bad
<dholbach> jonh_wendell: sorry, I don't have time for that right now - if you drop me a mail with the packages you want me to review, i'll do that
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, thanks. i'll do the changes suggested by Hobbsee and will mail you
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> thanks
* Hobbsee hopes we didnt grill him too hard
<StevenK> Harder, damn it!
<Hobbsee> heh
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, you're around yet, great
<Hobbsee> jonh_wendell: ish, yes
<jonh_wendell> Hobbsee, what do you mean: 'python-support goes for this one, too' ?
<Hobbsee> ask StevenK 
<StevenK> I wonder if my REVU account has been created yet.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Hmph! :-P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it was your comment :P
<Hobbsee> i just pasted it
<jonh_wendell> StevenK, can you help me?
<StevenK> jonh_wendell: You probably want to at least look at using python-support or python-central for this package.
<jonh_wendell> StevenK, no, i've already done this
<StevenK> It's only a suggestion. :-)
<jonh_wendell> StevenK, right
<siretart> raphink: yes?
<raphink> sorry siretart, seems the problem was that StevenK didn't have a REVU account
<raphink> which is why I failed to change his password ;)
<raphink> so it's sorted out
<StevenK> I've done an upload since then.
<StevenK> And the web interface still says "None"
<StevenK> So, do I now have an account?
<raphink> let me see
<raphink> did the upload pass?
<StevenK> I think I saw hit the web interface.
<raphink> ok
<raphink> what was the package you uploaded?
<StevenK> fala
<StevenK> And it was me, I just verified the GPG goodness on the .dsc
<raphink> you don't seem to be the one changing this package
<raphink> fala  is 
<jonh_wendell> fala is my package
<raphink> Changed-By: Jonh Wendell Sousa de Santana <wendell@bani.com.br>
<azeem> 3/W 33
<raphink>  yes
<azeem> oops
<StevenK> Oh, right.
<raphink> it's not StevenK's
<jonh_wendell> if anybody wants to review it, feel free! http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3583
<StevenK> raphink: I'll look at doing a proper upload when I get up.
<raphink> k
<siretart> StevenK: whats your revu login (the email)
<StevenK> siretart: To be honest, I doubt I have one.
<siretart> StevenK: it is created automatically on uploads
<siretart> StevenK: based on the Changed-By field
<StevenK> Changed-By wasn't me
<jonh_wendell> should be :)
<StevenK> As I said to raphink, I'll redo it when I wake up.
<siretart> ok
<StevenK> That part of the REVU page so isn't clear.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: just upload a new linda or something now, with your name in the changelog?
<siretart> no. and that part of revu really sucks
<StevenK> I could do that.
<StevenK> There, aircrack-ng uploading
<StevenK> s/ing/ed/
<StevenK> Just before a 5 minute boundary too, hopefully.
<crimsun> woops, I let a u-u-s slip
<crimsun> fixed.
<StevenK> siretart, raphink: Sorted, thanks for your help.
<raphink> np
<Adri2000> is there any Kubuntu people around? a new upstream release of k9copy is available, the last upload has been done by Tonio_, he is not here. so: do you prefer to wait for Tonio_? or do you want to do it yourself? I can also take care of it but I will need a sponsor
<crimsun> it's best to ping the previous uploader first
<Adri2000> !seen Tonio_
<ubotu> I last saw tonio_ (n=tonio@APuteaux-153-1-10-44.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) 15m 34s ago, quiting: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<Adri2000> the problem is that I don't know if this tonio_ is the right one, he was not identified and not in this channel
<Adri2000> I will wait :)
<crimsun> his irc client left about 14 hours ago.
<Hobbsee> hey Adri2000 
<Hobbsee> !info k9copy
<ubotu> k9copy: DVD backup tool for KDE. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1.1.0~beta1-0ubuntu2 (edgy), package size 630 kB, installed size 1708 kB
<Hobbsee> !info k9copy feisty
<Hobbsee> !info k9copy feisty
* Hobbsee broke the bot.  woo!
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: please package that
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: tonio_'s working on main stuff
<Adri2000> ok Hobbsee, I will let you know as soon as it is ready
<Hobbsee> okay
<PriceChild> Hobbsee: go to bed!
<Hobbsee> PriceChild: i was figuring kubuntu meetings out!
<PriceChild> course you were
<PriceChild> those "special" dreams aren't giong to wait for you, you know!
<PriceChild> popey: no binary uploads
<PriceChild> whoops wrong place
<CypherBIOS> someone can explain how dh_installmenu works?
<crimsun> meaning clarification post-reading dh_installmenu(1)?
<thom> i imagine the manpage would do an admirable job
<CypherBIOS> I've tried the debhelper manpage, but not helped much :(
<thom> man dh_installmenu
<CypherBIOS> thom: tnx :)
<Seeker`> so how exactly do I go about starting to contribute?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: look for bugs to fix, or try to package a program that is not yet in universe, and don't hesitate to ask questions here :)
<Adri2000> Seeker`: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Candidates for new programs to package
<Seeker`> I dont really have a clue where to start, the only programming i've done before is at uni, and they have been small projects
<Adri2000> Seeker`: ah ok, if you don't know at all packaging there is a session "Packaging 101" saturday at 19 UTC
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> what sort of level of programming knowledge would you say is required to be able to successdully package / fix bugs?
<Adri2000> depends of the bug, I personally don't have really programming knowledge, I ask upstream for a patch :p but when you have compile errors, sometimes it's easy to fix by editing an include in the source for example, but you will learn while packaging
<geser> Seeker`: for fixing packaging bugs you mostly need shell to fix the build script(s)
<Seeker`> i've done a small amount of that before
<Seeker`> but usually stick to C / Java
<Seeker`> is it easier to start bugfixing or packaging?
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<geser> Seeker`: imho is it easier to start bugfixing as someone else does already most of the work
<dholbach> Seeker`: helping with merging is great also
<geser> you only need to fix a call, add some lines, etc
<geser> if you start packaging you must do it all from the beginning
<dholbach> Seeker`: grab a package from http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html - read up on merging in crimsun's excellent merging session on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School and off you go :)
<Adri2000> crimsun: can you upload k9copy please: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/ patches still needed (but don't need any change), builds, installs and works
<ivoks> heh, i didn't see so much noise on ubuntu-devel for ages :)
<Ornedan> G'day. When are the Edgy x86_64 Eclipse packages going to be fixed?
<Seeker`> i'm finding it quite difficult to follow the merging tutorial
<Adri2000> Seeker`: why? ask if you have any questions
<Ornedan> It's merely been that way for over a month... And a fix has been posted in launchpad... So is it just because of some bureucratic retardedness that the fix hasn't been propagated to repositories yet? Or did the package maintainer die or something?
<Seeker`> its step 3 on the tutorial that i dont really get
<Adri2000> Ornedan: it seems that the fix doesn't work for everybody :/
<Seeker`> how do you know if you can discard the ubuntu changes?
<jonh_wendell> dholbach, don't forget my package :)
<Adri2000> Seeker`: often when they have been included in the debian package/upstream
<Adri2000> Seeker`: are you working on a particular package?
<Seeker`> no, i've just been trying to get the jist of it by looking at the tutorial
<Seeker`> i was going to have a go when i get home in about an hour or so
<Ornedan> Ok. So there are N, N > 1 bugs with Eclipse (and Java in general?) in Edgy
<Ornedan> However, it would still be good to get fix to at least some published, so that it will be easier to figure out the remaining issues
<Ornedan> Or ask for more data from users. Or do something instead of just ignoring the issue
<Seeker`> Adri2000: Do you reckon if I look at a specific package later, someone would help walk me through it?
<Adri2000> yes, of course
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> i'm heading home now, probably be back in about an hour
<LaserJock> guys, I need help :(
<LaserJock> my network decided to die in a weird way
<zul> LaserJock: if your network died then how did you connect to irc ;)
<LaserJock> another computer
<zul> whats wrong with your network connection then
<LaserJock> it won't do anything
<zul> what kind of network card?
<LaserJock> I came in to work this morning and it was dead
<LaserJock> not sure, it's on my intel imac
<zul> meh...cant help :(
<LaserJock> well, I'm thinking it almost has to be a hardware problem
<LaserJock> I rebooted into OS X and it was still dead
<LaserJock> but the weird thing is that other computers get a response when I ping it
<imbrandon> ...
<imbrandon> ello fellas
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon :/
<zul> check routing tables?
<thom> check that other computers are getting the correct result when they arp?
<LaserJock> dang, I can't even log into Ubuntu now
<thom> (ie, that noone's stolen your IP)
<LaserJock> xsession-errors says "Host name lookup failure on localhost"
<LaserJock> this is just really weird, the computer was left on last night
<LaserJock> and it was *working* last night
<Spec> you can't login to a console?
<LaserJock> console yes, gnome no
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> so the auth is failing on xsession?
<Spec> gnome wants an entry in your /etc/hosts file for your box
<Spec> but if it was working yesterday, that entry shouldn't have automagically left
<geser> Spec: doesn't it use also DNS to resolve names?
<LaserJock> /etc/hosts seems fine to me
<Spec> 'host localhost'?
<LaserJock> I have 127.0.0.1 localhost
<LaserJock> hmm, but then I have 127.0.1.1 <my computer>
<Spec> I have a 127.0.1.1 <Ubuntu>
<Spec> on my vmware
<LaserJock> hmm, ok
<Spec> yeah, i've never seen that one before though, :p
<geser> LaserJock: "host localhost" works?
<LaserJock> geser, what is it supposed to do?
<geser> lookup the IP for localhost
<LaserJock> nope, doesn't work
<LaserJock> connection timed out; no servers could be reached
<geser> check /etc/nsswitch.conf
<geser> you should have a line "hosts:          files dns"
<LaserJock> yep
<Spec> does your resolv.conf look right?
<LaserJock> yep
<geser> is the interface "lo" up?
<LaserJock> yep
<geser> hmm
<geser> I'm out of ideas
<LaserJock> darn, now I get Host unreachable when I ping it
<LaserJock> ok, that's weird
<LaserJock> if I hook it up to the same hub this computer is on it responds to the ping
<LaserJock> does that sound right?
<geser> IIRC a ping to localhost should also work without a connection (can't test it right now)
<LaserJock> ok, one issues seems to be DNS
<LaserJock> when I hooked the computer into the same hub as this one I can ssh in using the IP
<imbrandon> dns shouldent matter if your going by the ip
<LaserJock> but any communication with my network as a whole is gone
<LaserJock> imbrandon, right, I'm saying I don't have dns though
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> ok, I think it's time to talk with the sysadmin. I think the network has maybe turned my IP off or something
<LaserJock> although why I can't get localhost is beyond me :(
<Seeker`> hi
<LaserJock> ok, well I can ping localhost anyway
<xerxas> can I help in merges ? 
<geser> sure
<xerxas> how ? 
<imbrandon> xerxas: sure, its just standard to contact the name listed with the merge first to make sure they havent already started working on it
<xerxas> on taking any package here: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html#updated
<xerxas> ok
<Seeker`> is anyone able to help talk me through the process of merging a package?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: did you see anything wrong with my package?
<LaserJock> joejaxx, I haven't had a chance
<joejaxx> oh alright
<LaserJock> I just found out my networking problem
<joejaxx> really?
<joejaxx> nice :)
<LaserJock> not really
<joejaxx> atleast you know what it is now
<joejaxx> oh
<LaserJock> my uni killed my mac address
<LaserJock> because my computer scanned 300,000 hosts on the https port last night
<joejaxx> why did your computer do that?
<LaserJock> I have no idea
<LaserJock> they think it's a worm
<imbrandon> virus
<zul> lol
<joejaxx> how can you have a virus on ubuntu?
<LaserJock> so I'll have to figure out what happened
<joejaxx> yeah
<LaserJock> and plead with them to turn my computer back on
<joejaxx> hello imbrandon  and zul 
<joejaxx> LaserJock: that is quite unfortunate :(
<zul> hi joejaxx 
<imbrandon> joejaxx: linux virus's exist, they are just not as previlent ( specialy if your rooted )
<LaserJock> I have no idea where to even look
<joejaxx> imbrandon: yeah that is what i mean 
<imbrandon> ANY os CAN get a virus / trojan
<thom> LaserJock: tct, chkrootkit etc, downloaded on different pc, built statically, burnt onto cd, run on computer in question
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i mean it is not like xp where anyone can execute it
<imbrandon> joejaxx: that dont matter, a root exploit could have been used
<joejaxx> zul: hello i am going to patch the kernel today i found out it was 2.6.17
<joejaxx> imbrandon: true
<imbrandon> just because it dont happen often dosent mean it cant :)
<joejaxx> i do not see how people can just sit around and write virii
<joejaxx> zul: :D
<joejaxx> zul: i have to turn off smp and preempt though
<joejaxx> :\
<zul> why?
<joejaxx> because this patch will not work with it
<LaserJock> crap, it looks to me like somebody tried to ssh in
<joejaxx> :\
<joejaxx> zul: trying to setup my cluster with ubuntu
<joejaxx> trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/startfluxbox', which is also in package fluxbox
<joejaxx> fun stuff
<joejaxx> you want to know why that happened?
<joejaxx> because i need to have the dpkg-d in the preinst
<joejaxx> LaserJock: you also know what that means? that error?
<joejaxx> i fixed the install file :D
<joejaxx> if it is trying to overwrite it
<imbrandon> bbiab lunch time
<LaserJock> how do I know if somebody got in?
<joejaxx> does sshd log successful authentications?
<jorgp> hello
<jorgp> who do we talk to about a wrong link problem with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates?action=show&redirect=UniverseCandidates
<joejaxx> LaserJock: if so then you can look there
<LaserJock> jorgp, you can just fix it
<jorgp> gaim-libnotify links to gaim-assistant page
<jorgp> nm, I'll just fix it myself
<jorgp> that was easy enough, sorry to bother
<Seeker`> can anyone help me merge the eterm package?
<LaserJock> guys how do I find out what somebody did if they got into my computer?
<jorgp> Seeker`, what problem are you having with it?
<adrian3> LaserJock, bash's logs ?
<Seeker`> jorgp: I dont really know what to do - i was wondering if someone could talk me through what I am meant to do
<jorgp> what are you doing with it? upgrading, patches?
<Seeker`> merge with the debian version
<Seeker`> anyone?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: so first download the grab-merge script
<Seeker`> Adri: I've done that already, and I have run it with eterm as the argument
<Adri2000> ok, I'm doing the same at the moment
<Adri2000> Seeker`: look at eterm_0.9.3-1ubuntu1.patch
<Adri2000> Seeker`: it shows you the changes made in the ubuntu package
<Seeker`> yep
<Adri2000> 0.9.3-1 (debian) -> 0.9.3-1ubuntu1 (ubuntu)
<Seeker`> ok
<Adri2000> this kind of changes, if not included in upstream or debian, should be kept
<Seeker`> so unless it has been changed in the new version for debian, the same patch should be applied to the new version?
<Adri2000> not always, if it was a change in the depends, maybe it is not needed anymore
<Seeker`> how do you tell?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: read the changelog to see why is has been changed, and tools such as apt-cache, apt-file
<Adri2000> s/is/it/
<Adri2000> for eterm, the changelog says that it fixes a bug (even if it seems to not have been reported in malone)
<Seeker`> ok
<Adri2000> Seeker`: now look at the patch between 0.9.3-1 and the last version in debian (which is a new upstream release, 0.9.4)
<Seeker`> quite a large file
<Adri2000> yep, so use your editor to search a string
<Adri2000> search for example "Window Manager does not support MWM hints." which is part of a line changed in ubuntu
<Adri2000> you will find something
<Adri2000> ok?
<Seeker`> yep
<Adri2000> but you can see that it's only a one line change, s/print_warning/libast_print_warning/
<Seeker`> yeah
<Seeker`> which isn't the same thing as the ubuntu patch
<Adri2000> and it not at all the change made in ubuntu
<Adri2000> yep, so you'll have to keep this change
<Adri2000> and as grab-merge reported, there is a conflict in the file src/windows.c
<Adri2000> which is the file patched in ubuntu
<Adri2000> there is a conflict because of the one line change in debian
<Adri2000> Seeker`: so edit manually the file src/windows.c
<Seeker`> in eterm-0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1?
<Adri2000> yes
<Adri2000> this is the directoy created by merge-o-matic, with the debian and the ubuntu versions merged
<Adri2000> but merge-o-matic didn't manage to merge src/windows.c
<Adri2000> that's your job :)
<Seeker`> so i end up with
<Seeker`>     if (BITFIELD_IS_SET(eterm_options, ETERM_OPTIONS_BORDERLESS)) {
<Seeker`>         prop = XInternAtom(Xdisplay, "_MOTIF_WM_INFO", True);
<Seeker`>             mwmhints.flags = MWM_HINTS_DECORATIONS;
<Seeker`>             mwmhints.decorations = 0;
<Seeker`>     } else {
<Adri2000> seems correct
<Adri2000> Seeker`: now you have to write the changelog
<Adri2000> in eterm-0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1/, use dch -e
<Seeker`> now what?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: you have to write what are the ubuntu changes
<Seeker`> do I just copy what was written in the changelog for the 0.93 version?
<Adri2000> yep, you can look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-November/date.html for an example
<Seeker`>   * Merge from debian unstable.
<Seeker`>   * Don't set override_redirect for KDE.  It causes borderless
<Seeker`>     Eterms to refuse focus.
<Seeker`>  -- Chris Oattes <cjo20@bath.ac.uk>  Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:36:09 +0000
<Seeker`> is that right?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: with this changelog it looks like you have just made the change for 0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1
<Seeker`> huh?
<Adri2000> Seeker`: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/feisty-changes/2006-November/001310.html one I have done
* joejaxx does a dance :D :)
<joejaxx> i am so happy right now
<joejaxx> lol
<Seeker`> so change it to say that the override_redirect part of the merge?
<Adri2000> * merge from debian unstable. changes:
<Adri2000>   - bla bla...
<Adri2000> instead of two different *
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> done that
<Seeker`> what now?
<geser> build the source package
<CypherBIOS> That's ok, I did some modifications based on the Hobbsee's comments, if someone can review this package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581 and make some sugestions I'll be gratefull
<CypherBIOS> I'm going for home now, back in about one hour
<CypherBIOS> tnx, bye
<Seeker`> i get an error message when trying to build
<geser> which one?
<Seeker`> dpkg-buildpackage: source package is eterm
<Seeker`> dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1
<Seeker`> dpkg-buildpackage: source changed by Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic <mom@ubuntu.com>
<Seeker`> dpkg-buildpackage: source version without epoch 0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1
<Seeker`>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<Seeker`> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<Seeker`> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk: No such file or directory
<Seeker`> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk'. Stop.
<geser> install cdbs
<Adri2000> Seeker`: install cdbs, and you didn't create the source package
<Adri2000> Seeker`: debuild -S -sa
<geser> I use dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<Seeker`> i need to generate a gpg key
<geser> as long as you don't want to upload it you don't need one
<geser> you need one if you want your packages reviewed on revu or once you are a motu to upload packages
<Seeker`> it complains that it doesn't have a key though
<Seeker`> so debuild doesn't run
<Adri2000> Seeker`: -us -uc to not sign
<Seeker`> so after i run merge-buildpackage, is that it?
<geser> if you look inside merge-buildpackage you will see it calls dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa and your options
<Seeker`> so it generates a deb file?
<geser> no, a new diff.gz and .dsc (orig.tar.gz stays the same)
<geser> aka a new source package
<cbx33> hey guys when I try to remove totem-mozilla it wants to take ubuntu-desktop with it
<cbx33> is this right behavior?
<cbx33> I want mplayer as my plugin for mozilla
<Seeker`> so what do i do now?
<geser> you got a new diff.gz and .dsc?
<geser> check if the merged package builds
<geser> you need a pbuilder for feisty
<geser> for this
<cbx33> does removing ubuntu-desktop hurt anything?
<cbx33> or is it just a meta pacakge?
<geser> cbx33: it's a meta-package
<joejaxx> anyone know how to kill a terminal instance inside of screen without typing exit?
<cbx33> so would removing it uninstall other items too?
<Seeker`> geser: How do i build it?
<joejaxx> cbx33: nope
<cbx33> ok
<joejaxx> cbx33: it whould only uninstall the metapackage
<cbx33> ok that's cool
<cbx33> I just need the mozilla-mplayer plugin
<cbx33> and the totem one seems to be overriding it
<geser> Seeker`: have you a pbuilder for feisty already?
<joejaxx> cbx33: yeah i removed totem as well
<Seeker`> does it matter that i'm not running feisty at the moment?
<geser> no, pbuilder uses a chroot to build packages
<cbx33> I'd better get my chroot soon
<geser> Seeker`: you can use pbuilder to build package for feisty while running edgy (or dapper)
<Seeker`> how do i obtain pbuilder for feisty?
<geser> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingBasics describes it at the beginning
<geser> you need to replace edgy with feisty
<geser> it's from days as edgy was in development
<geser> either install debootstrap from edgy-backports or install the deb for feisty
<geser> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_0.3.3.0ubuntu8~edgy1_all.deb
<geser> then "apt-get install pbuilder"
<geser> then: sudo pbuilder create --distribution feisty --othermirror "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu feisty universe multiverse"
<cbx33> geser: is the feisty script available?
<cbx33> I noramlly have to modify the edgy script to make the feisty chroot
<geser> it's in the backported version from feisty and in the version in feisty
<Seeker`> right, its downloading loads of stuff now
<Seeker`> geser: That has complete
<Seeker`> d
<superm1> hey imbrandon you around?
<geser> Seeker`: now you can use it to test build your merged package on feisty: sudo pbuilder build path_to_the_new.dsc
<Seeker`> ok
<geser> if it succeeds you will find the deb in /var/cache/pbuilder/results/
<Seeker`> yep, the deb is there
<superm1> Seeker`, looks like geser lost his connection possibly
<Seeker`> :(
<superm1> were you just checking if a build worked?
<Burgwork> hmm, webmin is being actively developed again
<jdong> heh
<jdong> that mean ubuntu packages for them will come back? :D
<ajmitch> I hope not
<Burgwork> hmm
<ajmitch> I suspect the archive admins would throw a fit
<Burgwork> probably
<Seeker`> geser: the packages are there
<superm1> hey jdong i was supposed to bug you some time back about getting around to backporting myth for dapper
<jdong> superm1: yeah you were :)
<superm1> well lets pretend that this is 3 weeks ago
<jdong> ok
<superm1> ..... jdong you got those packages going yet?
<jdong> just tell me what needs to be done
<jdong> I've already approved like 30 backports today, so another one couldn't hurt :D
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> well from what i remember there are two libraries that need to come with it
<jdong> apologies to ubuntu-archive ahead of time :D
<jdong> ok, which two
<superm1> libraw1394 and something else
<superm1> let me check the other one
<jdong> export DIST=dapper
<jdong> crap, you're not rxvt
<superm1> and we determined that there weren't conflicts
<geser> Seeker`: ok then you can create the debdiff: debdiff debian_version.dsc merged_version.dsc > debdiff
<jdong> right, I remember that
<jdong> superm1: which two libraries were they?
<superm1> i'm lookin
<jdong> :)
<jdong> let's see if my core duo can answer that faster :)
<superm1> libraw1394 and libiec61883
<jdong> ok
* jdong tries
<Seeker`> geser: done that
<geser> then file a bug against the source package, attach the debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to this bug and wait till it gets uploaded
<Seeker`> do i just call the file "debdiff"?
<geser> yes
<Seeker`> and this is on launchpad?
<geser> yes
<jdong> superm1: see bug 51680
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 51680 in dapper-backports "MythTV v0.19" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51680
<jdong> superm1: your wish has been granted :)
<superm1> spectacular :)
<cbx33> mythtv was riddeled with bugs in edgy
<jdong> cbx33: all my friends complain about dapper's mythtv too :)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> there is a lot of simple stuff
<cbx33> like dirs not being created etc
<superm1> cbx33, are you talking about mythweb particularly?
<superm1> or about mythtv itself?
<cbx33> nope
<jdong> speaking of dirs not created
<cbx33> mythtv-plugins
<jdong> there's another backport request I needed to look at
<cbx33> like dvd ip
<cbx33> music rip
<jdong> oh shoot....
<jdong> smokeping!
<superm1> cbx33, i'm gonna be changing the package for feisty to standardize all of the directories into a central /media/mythtv
<superm1> i'll make sure directories are made for rips
<superm1> and such
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> you'll definitely have my vote
<cbx33> would be nice if there was a way to backport that
<cbx33> but alas there won;t be
<cbx33> :(
<superm1> yea, it will be for new package installs only
<superm1> it would be such a mess elsewise
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> I think I sorted most of the issues
<cbx33> will there be a new upstream release of mythtv in feisty?
<superm1> there are more 0.20 fixes that will be put on
<superm1> but not a newer upstream persay
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 wants shiney new features
<Seeker`> geser: What shall I put on the description / summary?
<superm1> if you are running into any other issues though, feel free to add them to the todo list for the mythtvteam page
<superm1> or ping me
<cbx33> cheers superm1 I'll do that
<cbx33> I wanted a nice mythtv box setup at my house
<cbx33> but the pc I have in mind is too noisy to make ite viable at the mometn
<Burgwork> personally, I think elisa is more interesting, but is currently alpha
<superm1> ah
<geser> Seeker`: it's up to you but I put there [Merge]  and the package name and version
<cbx33> elisa?
<Burgwork> http://www.fluendo.com/elisa/
<superm1> www.fluendo.com/elisa/
<superm1> almost beat ya :)
<cbx33> hehe
<Burgwork> builds on gstreamer, rather than replicating the entire stack, as mythtv does
<Burgwork> not quite feature-comparable yet and much younder, but has paid devs
<cbx33> hmm
<Seeker`> geser: shall I just paste the debdiff into the further information?
<geser> better attach it
<geser> you can attach it once you filed the bug
<superm1> jdong, so after this gets built for backports, i'll have to bug you for another 2 months for mythplugins to backport too right :)
<jdong> superm1: argh, I knew there was a second half to this
<superm1> hehe
<jdong> superm1: can we just get this over with now?
<jdong> :)
<geser> Seeker`: see bug 73795 for an example from me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73795 in libopensync-plugin-evolution2 "[Merge]  libopensync-plugin-evolution2 0.19-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73795
<superm1> should also build cleanly since i build dapper deps from edgy source on them and host them on my own repository
<superm1> all builddeps are in dapper
<geser> Seeker`: but there is no policy how those bugs should look like
<jdong> superm1: ok, if you're confident I'll just directly approve mythplugins too?
<superm1> yea i'm confident
<jdong> superm1: ok, done deal
<superm1> awesome, that was a lot less painful then i expected ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> w00t!
* superm1 can feel the bandwidth usage on his dapper repo already going down
<joejaxx> superm1: haha why?
<superm1> for 0.20 debs on people who dont want to move up to edgy, i'm the only repo i've really seen with them
<joejaxx> superm1: oh ok
<joejaxx> :P
<cbx33> superm1: you're a repo?
* jdong queues up another set of ktorrent svn builds
<cbx33> damn clever repo ;)
<superm1> haha
<joejaxx> anyone know why hald whould be hanging up on install?
<joejaxx> Setting up hal (0.5.8.1-3ubuntu5) ... * Reloading system message bus config...                                                                             [ OK ]   * Starting Hardware abstraction layer hald   
<jdong> joejaxx: are you trying to start a hald in chroot?
<joejaxx> jdong: yeap
<jdong> hmm
<joejaxx> jdong: it works fine when you do it manually
<jdong> interesting
<joejaxx> but not when you install the package
* jdong plays around
<joejaxx> which is what i need it to do
<Seeker`> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eterm/+bug/73829
<joejaxx> ohhhh
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73829 in eterm "[Merge]  eterm_0.9.4.0debian1-2ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<joejaxx> nevermind
<Seeker`> is that right?
<joejaxx> jdong: it just takes a while
<joejaxx> it continued :D
<jdong> joejaxx: ha :)
<joejaxx> jdong: yeah like more than 3 minutes a while
<joejaxx> 5*
<jdong> joejaxx: heh, the fun of chroots :)
<joejaxx> oh darn
<joejaxx> i do not want xorg to ask me the resolution
<jdong> like how kde compiles, uic tries to open up network sockets
<joejaxx> :(
<joejaxx> jdong: haha
<jdong> leading to like 10 second delays between every command
<superm1> jdong, the only catch that i can see with the plugins, the regular mythtv package will have to arrive first as its a dep for the plugins - so as long as the build queue doesn't build them simultaneously, things will build fine
<jdong> ktorrent compiles in like 5% of the time out of chroot than in pbuilder :)
<jdong> superm1: the buildds handle that gracefully
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<jdong> superm1: it'll sit in DEP-WAIT 
<joejaxx> Errors were encountered while processing: acpid acpi-support powermanagement-interface
<joejaxx> hmm
<superm1> jdong, good good
<joejaxx> jdong: that happened on feisty
<joejaxx> those errors
<jdong> mmm
<joejaxx> in a chroot of course :)
<jdong> I haven't touched my feisty chroot/pbuilder at all yet... so yeah... :D
<joejaxx> jdong: :P
<jdong> I only touch it once in a while to see what happens if I overload my tmpfs build environment
<geser> Seeker`: yes, everything right
<jdong> and I learned to make a few extra swapfiles :)
<joejaxx> :)
<lotusleaf> Will this bug prevent kdar/dar from making it into Feisty? It sounds pretty nasty: "I am wondering what will happen with KDar in Feisty. Will it be dropped from the distribution? I don't think that downgrading 'dar' is an option and I don't know the degree of compatibility of archives created by different dar versions." https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Seeker`> geser: Thanks for all of your help
<geser> Seeker`: np
<cbx33> LaserJock: dude
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'm just waiting for the uni IT guys to get here to give me a sound lashing
<geser> LaserJock: could you resolve your network problem?
<LaserJock> geser, in a way
<LaserJock> I found out my 2 Ubuntu boxes were hacked into
<geser> ouch
<joejaxx> jdong: 
<joejaxx> /etc/init.d/acpid start * Starting ACPI services...                                                                                                 acpid: can't open /proc/acpi/event: Device or resource busy
<joejaxx> :D
<LaserJock> geser, very much so since they are uni computers
<joejaxx> jdong: fun stuff
<jdong> joejaxx: you can't start two acpid's
<joejaxx> LaserJock: :(
<jdong> joejaxx: why are you installing hal daemon in chroot anyway?
<joejaxx> jdong: livecd creation
<geser> LaserJock: do you know how they get in?
<LaserJock> geser, yeah
<LaserJock> I set up a couple test users for a spec I was working on
<LaserJock> not the best of passwords, stupidly
<jdong> joejaxx: livecd _creation_?
<joejaxx> jdong: yes
<jdong> ah, I get it
<jdong> well, there's a way to deactivate init.d for that
<jdong> I don't remember how though :D
<joejaxx> jdong: lol
<superm1> LaserJock, any real damage done, did these users have superuser rights?
<LaserJock> superm1, no, they didn't
<LaserJock> but the hacker set up port scanners
<joejaxx> jdong: :)
<LaserJock> the uni put a mac block on my 1 machine last night
<LaserJock> cause he was scanning https ports on 300,000 machines
<superm1> wow
<LaserJock> but we have the programs, bash_history, etc.
<superm1> so i'm taking it your doing all public/private key authentication from this point forward when using ssh on your machines, even with test users :)?
<LaserJock> I'm not going to allow any access outside my department network is what I"m going to do
<LaserJock> that's what we usually do but for some reason I didn't set hosts.allow/hosts.deny on one computer
<jdong> LaserJock: perhaps fail2ban would be a good addition too?
<LaserJock> anyway, I guess the uni IT guy hate linux so this will just reinforce that :(
<LaserJock> jdong: I'm certainly open to options now ;-)
<jdong> LaserJock: start installing nmap for windows on all the windows boxes :D
<LaserJock> I don't have any windows boxes
<jdong> LaserJock: but seriously, fail2ban is pretty effective at deterring ssh brute forcing
<superm1> you know i've determined that most people who "hate" linux, dont hate the OS, but are very stubborn and dont want to learn something new
<jdong> and it's pretty brain-dead easy to install
<jdong> namely apt-get install fail2ban :D
<LaserJock> jdong: thanks for that tip, that sounds like exactly the type of thing I need
<LaserJock> anyway, I had a grand plan of getting some revus and merges done today
<LaserJock> but that's pretty shot
<LaserJock> so that's my feisty and production machine down for the count :(
<PriceChild> Could anyone check out the latest state of my xvidcap? Hobbse was happy with it... then wondered whether it needed pot something for rosetta....
<PriceChild> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3582
<superm1> jdong, good suggestion with fail2ban, i've been meaning to install denyhosts, but i think i like this better
#ubuntu-motu 2006-11-30
<stani> hello
<stani> anyone here?
<rmjb> hello stani
<stani> i have a simple question, I guess
<Burgwork> hey stani
<stani> I am new here (effect of the ubuntu open week)
<rmjb> welcome
<rmjb> so what's your question?
<stani> I develop SPE, a Python Editor, which some people are so kind to package and put in the universe. However it seems that an extra dependency needs to be defined: python-wxversion. What should I do? Report a bug on launchpad?
<LaserJock> you're *the* stani?
<stani> yes
<LaserJock> how cool, I love SPE
<stani> thanks
<LaserJock> yeah, a bug on launchpad is the best way to go
<stani> I was just wondering because the maintainer is the Debian QA Group and I am wondering if the Debian MOTU (is it the same as ubuntu MOTU?) will keep track of launchpad or if they have their own bug tracking system.
<StevenK> Debian QA Group means the package is orphaned in Debian.
<Burgwork> unlike Ubuntu, all packages in Debian must have a maintainer
<CypherBIOS> stani: wow, I love the SPE too, thank you. Really, the Ubuntu package are ugly
* rmjb wants to see this SPE to see what all the fuss is about
<stani> I understood that in the Ubuntu Open Week that Debian needs a maintainer, but as now the packaged is orphaned I am wondering who I should contact.
<stani> I am afraid if I use Launchpad nobody will take action.
<gnomefreak> rmjb: its nice python text editor/IDEish
<Burgwork> stani: to maintain a package in Debian is a bit more work
<LaserJock> stani: well, Launchpad will be ok for Ubuntu
<Burgwork> however, that is the best place for you to do you work, because it will benefit Ubuntu and Debian
<LaserJock> but Debian has it's own bug bug tracking system
<rmjb> stani: unfortunately there seems to be something wrong with your site, I get 502 error on http://pythonide.stani.be/
<stani> What is the url of debian bug tracking?
<StevenK> http://bugs.debian.org
<gnomefreak> rmjb: its still in the repos afaik
<stani> rmjb: Yes my project was sponsored by zettai.net who gave free hosting, but they went out of business.
<rmjb> bummer
<stani> So I'll move to another sponsor soon. I got some great offers.
<stani> I have asked for an ubuntu server hosting, but I am afraid that is hard to find.
<LaserJock> there are quite a few Debian servers out there
<stani> CypherBIOS: why you say the "Ubuntu packages are ugly"?
<lotusleaf> stani: you need free hosting for a FOSS project?
<rmjb> SPE does look very nice
<CypherBIOS> stani: some errors on feisty
<stani> Yes, but I was curious for ubuntu servers. I don't know yet any company offering Ubuntu.
<rmjb> will use this instead of Geany for now
<CypherBIOS> stani: relative on packaging
<stani> rmjb: thanks
<gnomefreak> what is geany?
<lotusleaf> stani: oh, the server has to be ubuntu, then?
<rmjb> another python IDE, the best one I saw
<rmjb> until now
<gnomefreak> rmjb: in repos?
<rmjb> yep
<gnomefreak> hmmmm
<stani> CypherBIOS: which errors
<rmjb> :)
<gnomefreak> ill try it also. i use a bunch of ides :)
<stani> Actually at the moment I am optimizing SPE for ubuntu.
<CypherBIOS> stani: I'm not sure about what I'm saying, this is related for me by someone else...
* StevenK quotes CypherBIOS out of context.
<gnomefreak> are the packages in -proposed repos supported or kind of like backports repos?
<LaserJock> they are temporary
<stani> Ha I didn't know geany will look at it. It looks like a multilingual IDE, while SPE is completely focused on python and has a lot of special features (such as UML, pychecker, ...)
<StevenK> gnomefreak: The packages in -proposed are undergoing testing before being pushed to -updates
<LaserJock> -proposed is where packages go to get tested before they go into -updates ,etc.
<CypherBIOS> stani: If needed, latter,  I'll give you more description about the problems that is happening with my friend
<gnomefreak> ty
<rmjb> stani: VPS hosting that offers ubuntu: http://www.vpslink.com/
<stani> lotusleaf: no, it doesn't have to be, but as I switched to Ubuntu, I was just curious if Ubuntu is getting in the server market for hosting
<stani> CypherBIOS: ok, you can always send me a mail
<CypherBIOS> stani: :)
<lotusleaf> stani: ah, ok.
<stani> I'll contact them to see if they would want to sponsor SPE by hosting.
<gnomefreak> wasnt gnome updated to 2.16 fpr edgy?
<gnomefreak> or just the other gnome things?
<LaserJock> yeah, should be 2.16
<gnomefreak> !info gnome
<ubotu> gnome: The GNOME Desktop Environment, with extra components. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.14.2.1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 12 kB, installed size 44 kB
<nolimitsoya> are there any plans on updating thunar for xubuntu? its now a rc, and the irritating bug with the treeview going bananas is fixed, among other things...
<gnomefreak> that bothers me a bit :(
<nolimitsoya> the thunar version currently in xubuntu is a very old beta, btw.
<Adri2000> please, any motu for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553 ? it's already advocated, just need one more :)
<ajmitch> afternoon
<ajmitch> stani: afaik, there's no plans to do generic hosting stuff like sourceforge does - I've been bitten by zettai going out of business as well :)
<Adri2000> ajmitch: you will look at it this afternoon?
<nolimitsoya> whos managing thunar?
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: xubuntu people
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: are you talking of edgy or feisty?
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, and they are found where? :)
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, current, edgy
<ajmitch> Adri2000: doubtful
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: there won't be new upstream release in edgy
<Adri2000> ajmitch: ah :(
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: maybe in -backports, you can ask in #xubuntu
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, yes, thats the general idea. however, i understand exeptions are made if there is a good reason, and fixing a very irritating bug and moving from early beta to rc at the same time would be grounds for an expetion if you ask me...
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, no, nothing in backports. still the (now very dated) beta
<ajmitch> Adri2000: simply because I'm at work right now :)
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: ask in #xubuntu, I don't really know
<rmjb> nolimitsoya: maybe you can file a backport request for it?
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, there wouldnt be that many motus in #xubuntu, would there? :)
<nolimitsoya> rmjb, how do i do that?
<gnomefreak> it most likely will never happen that a DE will be upgraded in a stable release
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: motu are not responsible for xfce
<Adri2000> it's in main since dapper
<gnomefreak> ask in #ubuntu-backports :)
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, right... /me gets my head screwed on the right way again...
<rmjb> nolimitsoya: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportsHowto#head-47046f0b6751338ce86e851fd70ded0f5680b99f
<nolimitsoya> rmjb, thank you :)
<stani> Another question: I'm using reportbug to file my bug, but it says it will be sent to ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com. I want to file this bug to the debian bug tracker. Can I use reportbug for that?
<Adri2000> nolimitsoya: that's what I read in #ubuntu-classroom-chat from a xubuntu dev: <maxamillion> DenisTheMenace: no, the decision for a backport will be made once the stable release of xfce4 happens
<LaserJock> ajmitch: hi!
<nolimitsoya> Adri2000, ok, thank you. :) saved me the trouble of a backport request... bloody shame though. :(
<CypherBIOS> can some one take a look on my uploaded package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3587 If you can leave some comment I'll be grateful
<ajmitch> hey LaserJock!
* ajmitch looks around for a bit of paper to get LaserJock's autograph
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://fluxbuntu.org/repoinstall.png
<joejaxx> ajmitch: lol
* StevenK tries to determine why python-qt3 is busted in Feisty and goes quietly insane.
<LaserJock> ajmitch: autograph?
<LaserJock> I got hacked today
<LaserJock> but I'm starting to recover
<LaserJock> I'm so glad I bought a 1GB usb stick for my birthday
<joejaxx> well it seems i forgot something
<joejaxx> drivers/built-in.o: In function `ide_wait_not_busy':
<joejaxx> (.text+0x65a5d): undefined reference to `touch_nmi_watchdog'
<LaserJock> ajmitch: will you be around tomorrow for my open week presentation?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: at what time UTC?
<ajmitch> ouch at getting hacked
<LaserJock> 21:00 UTC
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, both my Ubuntu machines
<LaserJock> somebody from Poland apparently wanted to use me as a port scanner
<ajmitch> ok, I thought it was 20:00 UTC
<ajmitch> looking at the wiki page
<_MMA_> LaserJock: How did you notice? What was odd?
<ajmitch> which would be 9AM local time
<LaserJock> ajmitch: I just wondering because there is a chance I can't make it
<LaserJock> _MMA_: well, to start off with the uni banned my mac because "I" scanned 300,000 https ports last night
<_MMA_> Ouch..
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's unlikely I could guarantee being there
<_MMA_> LaserJock: Both runnin Ubuntu?
<ajmitch> since that's at the start of my working day
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, well now that I have ok from the sysadmin to reinstall my computers I should be ok
<LaserJock> _MMA_: yeah
<LaserJock> I was just thinking I might not have a computer to do it from
<LaserJock> but I'll get OS X at least on the one easily
<ajmitch> hopefully you will
<ajmitch> live cd! :)
<LaserJock> hmm, although it might take a while to get it unbanned from the network
<LaserJock> I'll make sure my other one is reinstalled tonight too
<LaserJock> man, this sucks
<LaserJock> note to self: make testing users have non-obvious names
<ajmitch> testing user, easy password?
<LaserJock> pretty easy
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<LaserJock> it wasn't same as user name
<LaserJock> but similar enough
<ajmitch> oh dear
<ajmitch> so probably some automated attack
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgwork> username was something like, test, no?
<LaserJock> I saw where the same IP has been trying to get in for a couple weeks
<LaserJock> yeah, I used testing1, testing2, etc.
<LaserJock> but normally my computers aren't accesible outside the department network
<LaserJock> so I just didn't think much of it
<LaserJock> stupid me
<LaserJock> anyway, the person left their tracks
<LaserJock> so I"m going to throw the logs and their scripts on a usb stick and reinstall
<LaserJock> so I learned a good security lesson I guess
<LaserJock> just stupid it had to happen
<crimsun> we all learn.
<LaserJock> and it just irritates me that I can't use my computer in peace
<crimsun> I remember when my RH 5.2 machine got hacked and used as a base for some .gov attacks.
<LaserJock> without literally getting attacked hundreds or thousands of times a day
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well, our department router got hacked into once
<ajmitch> now that would be annoying
<LaserJock> because a collaborator of one of our profs
<LaserJock> who is in texas
<LaserJock> had his computer hacked into
<LaserJock> and they got his password to our server
<LaserJock> then ran a password sniffer thingy
<LaserJock> and got all our passwords
<LaserJock> that one wasn't fun
<rmjb> so, is there a guide on setting up a subversion repo on ubuntu? I want to set up one to hold the debian directories of the packages I work on, so I can make and test changes more easily
<fbond> rmjb, you should really consider using bzr instead
<fbond> much simpler to use anyway
<Adri2000> rmjb: look at the server guide
<rmjb> bzr just for the debian directory of packages I work on? will it be on launchpad or on my "server"?
<fbond> it would be where ever you put it :)
<LaserJock> bzr is great for packaging
<LaserJock> you don't have .svn directories everywhere
<joejaxx> LaserJock: did you see that screenshot?
<crimsun> palski: when you submit SRU proposals, would you follow a few guidelines, please? First, please see points #1 and #2 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates . Please include all relevant info in your description of bug 73780. Your changelog (in the debdiff) also needs to reference #73780.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73780 in kdbus "[SRU]  kdbus (edgy)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73780
<LaserJock> joejaxx: yes I did
<LaserJock> joejaxx: very cool
<fbond> yeah, I use svn at work, bzr at home
<fbond> bzr is way simpler
<fbond> simpler in a good way, that is
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks :) i still have to add some little things like artwork etc but the package is installable :)
<LaserJock> svn is still pretty nice if you want a central repo kind of thing
<crimsun> palski: Please amend #73780 to address the points in #1 and #2, and resubmit a new debdiff, thanks!
<fbond> LaserJock, that is true; but for personal use only, there's not much of a need
<fernando> hi all
<LaserJock> fbond: exactly
<fbond> it's nice to be able to use version control features without needing a network connection, too
<LaserJock> bzr on a stick ;-)
<fbond> indeed :)
<fernando> can somebody to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3450 ?
<LaserJock> geeze, 53 bug subscribed to ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<rmjb> heh, the ubuntu server guide's page on version control systems doesn't mention bzr
<crimsun> crap, which 53?!
<rmjb> I've got one in those 53 :(
<LaserJock> rmjb: because it's so easy they don't need to add it ;-)
<rmjb> LaserJock: good sale
<LaserJock> well, it's not really a server thing
<LaserJock> I suppose
<LaserJock> crimsun: and motureviewers has 41 total :/
<crimsun> which url are you using for u-u-s?
<rmjb> you all need more MOTUs <hint> <hint> *wink* *wink* ;)
<LaserJock> crimsun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+subscribedbugs
<ajmitch> crimsun: don't worry, I'll try & look at some of those bugs tonight/tomorrow
<Adri2000> what's the difference between ubuntu-universe-sponsors and motureviewers?
<LaserJock> not a ton
<crimsun> LaserJock: 22, actually.
<crimsun> LaserJock: I've processed everything that's status Fix Committed or Confirmed
<LaserJock> geeze
<ajmitch> LaserJock: are you surprised?
<ajmitch> crimsun is far beyond deity level
<crimsun> yep, I'm back to "mere mortal" by overflowing the counter
<LaserJock> crimsun: how many are you doing a day, roughly?
<crimsun> depends how many geser submits ;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this is why we don't need the motu council, or sru or uvf teams
<ajmitch> we have crimsun
<crimsun> pssht
<LaserJock> well, the idea was to give the poor guy a break
<ajmitch> soon we won't need the tech board either
<ajmitch> once he gets warmed up
<joejaxx> is there some ubuntu only method that they use to patch the ubuntu kernels
<joejaxx> ?
<crimsun> joejaxx: it depends on which Ubuntu kernel you're referring to
<fbond> it's not the method, it's the patches
<crimsun> but no, none of them are Ubuntu-only "methods"
<joejaxx> because i just tried patching the generic kernel
<fernando> I'm really lost in ubuntu structure. I don't know where you need more help. I'm starting with packaging then.
<crimsun> fernando: great!
<joejaxx> crimsun: and you know something is wrong when you do not get an error when you use eithe -p0 and -p1
<fbond> well, I wouldn't just select patch options at random :)
<fbond> ubuntu kernel != vanilla kernel
<crimsun> what, does patch display a moocow or something?
<fbond> patches to vanilla kernel don't always / rarely apply to ubuntu kernel
<joejaxx> fbond: i am not selecting random patch options
<joejaxx> i am just saying
<fbond> it was a joke :)
<joejaxx> oh
* joejaxx has a hard time with irc sarcasm
<joejaxx> especiall in #u-devel
<fbond> understandable
* fbond can't seem to avoid being saracastic, even on IRC
<joejaxx> crimsun: it displays nothing
<crimsun> .oO( ``patch -moo'' would be interesting. )
<fbond> um; it displays nothing?
<joejaxx> yeah
<crimsun> joejaxx: that's ... ok, what did you do with the ponies?
<fbond> whoa
<joejaxx> normally when you do something wrong with patch it complains
<joejaxx> which is why i tested it with the wrong -p flag
<fbond> yes; if it displays nothing, that makes me think your patch file does not actually patch anything?
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> which is why i am asking
<crimsun> check the return value and the patch
<crimsun> try to reverse it
* ajmitch hands crimsun a pony
* rmjb seems to see a lot of ponies in #ubuntu-motu
* fbond just doesn't get the pony thing.
<LaserJock> ponies!!!?!
* LaserJock looks left
* LaserJock looks right
* LaserJock is disappointed and looks back at his hacked machines
<_MMA_> :)
* fbond thinks LaserJock could've avoided disappointment by simply revealing some basic information about these "ponies"
<LaserJock> fbond: http://www.hasbro.com/mylittlepony/
<fbond> ok, now ... bring it all together and make it relevant
<joejaxx> LOL
<fbond> ah screw it, I can just check the logs :)
<rmjb> wait for it
<fernando> hey Hobbsee 
<rmjb> there it was
<joejaxx> shhhhhhhhhhh Hobbsee is here
* LaserJock runs
<LaserJock> everybody hide!
<crimsun> ok. ponies are nice shiny things, and kids like ponies. Well you know how kids scream about wanting ponies? Now see http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
* joejaxx makes a break for the door
<joejaxx> rofl
<crimsun> (The context actually goes back further to jdub, et al., but we can omit it)
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: poniez!
<Admiral_Chicago> that made me lol
* ajmitch gives Hobbsee a pony
<joejaxx> that is so fun
<joejaxx> funny*
<LaserJock> wasn't there a ./ april fools pony item?
<ajmitch> probably
<crimsun> yeah, /. went pony-pink
<LaserJock> yeah, that was funny
<LaserJock> my wife just thinks we are all a bunch of nerds
<ademan> ok i'm absolutely fed up with this package, but i'm gonna try one more time, and hopefully you guys can help me with the error spew
<ajmitch> LaserJock: correct
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: do you have a few minutes to help me wth alsa?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee_!!
<joejaxx> its another Hobbsee! :O
<LaserJock> oh no
<LaserJock> now where do I hide
<joejaxx> she has a twin
<joejaxx> :O
<LaserJock> an "evil" twin ?!?!
* ajmitch finds a dark corner to hide in
<LaserJock> just when I thought it couldn't get any worse
<fernando> Hobbsee: have you a clone?
<crimsun> Admiral_Chicago: which Ubuntu release?
<Admiral_Chicago> edgy,
<joejaxx> oh
<Admiral_Chicago> alsa wasn't recognizing my soundcard, but OSS was so I investigated. now i can load the sound card module, i just want to save the paramater
<joejaxx> crimsun: sudo sh -c 'bzip2 -dc ../patches-20061124-prealpha.tar.bz2 | tar xf - | patch -p1 --dry-run'
<joejaxx> does that look right to you?
<joejaxx> yes right?
<fbond> aha!
<ademan> any kind of help is appreciated: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/0bjQIY68.html  relevant error spew starts on line 448
<fbond> you are feeding patch empty input
<crimsun> joejaxx: nope
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> LLAJ
<joejaxx> ==
<Hobbsee> fernando: there can only be one Hobbsee!
<joejaxx> Lets All Laugh At JoeJAxx
<crimsun> you're missing -O
<ajmitch> the Hobbsee!
* Hobbsee finds LaserJock and drops a bottlefull of tomato sauce on him
<fbond> hmm: grep -c 'pon\(ies\|y\)' '#ubuntu-motu.html' -> 98
<fbond> there's something unhealthy about that
<joejaxx> crimsun: alright
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch, joejaxx 
<joejaxx> crimsun: i knew i had forgotten something
<Hobbsee> the ajmitch!
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: hello :D
<Hobbsee> heya :)
<ajmitch> fbond: you haven't been around as long - I count 198
<fbond> and not one of you younger than 12 :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: :(
<fbond> (I assume)
<joejaxx> crimsun: wait -O
<ajmitch> you assume far too much
<joejaxx> ?
<LaserJock> fbond: in spirit maybe :-)
<fbond> ajmitch, I feared that
<ajmitch> LaserJock: mental age
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I know that bddebian fellow is like 10
<LaserJock> ;-)
* ajmitch thinks aggregate mental age could be somewhere around 12
<rmjb> archive.ubuntu.com, the repos, don't set no-cache options on their downloads right? I can set up a cache server to cache packages?
<bddebian> Hrmph
<Admiral_Chicago> crimsun: nvm i think i got it working
<LaserJock> fbond: it's a common inside jock for us, that's all :-)
<Admiral_Chicago> hopefully
<ajmitch> bddebian!
<LaserJock> bddebian: dude! I didn't know you were here
<fbond> LaserJock, I follow ...
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: So I noticed ;-P
<LaserJock> doh!
<Admiral_Chicago> no :(
<joejaxx> fbond: what did crimsun mean by -O
<joejaxx> i do not remember using that last time i used patch 
<fbond> I believe he's talking about using that as an option to tar ...
<fbond> hang on
<ajmitch> yes, he is
<joejaxx> ah
<fbond> man tar: -O, --to-stdout
<ajmitch> since tar will extract files to the current directory, not to stdout
<joejaxx> ah ok
<fbond> roight
<crimsun> joejaxx: tar's intelligent enough to notice bz2/gz, btw.
<fbond> crimsun, you don't have to give it -j or -z ?
<crimsun> tar -Oxf foo.tar.bz2 | patch ...
<fbond> neat
<crimsun> fbond: you did in older versions
<fbond> the lazy will prevail :)
<joejaxx> fbond: -j :D
<joejaxx> i use that when using tar
<joejaxx> for bz2
<fbond> me too
<joejaxx> hmm
<joejaxx> |--- linux.orig/hpc/migrecv.c   2006-11-02 22:51:58.000000000 +0100
<joejaxx> |+++ linux/hpc/migrecv.c        2006-11-02 22:52:00.000000000 +0100
<joejaxx> i think i created the wrong symlink
<ademan> so about my stupid problem... http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/0bjQIY68.html  relevant error spew starts on line 448
<joejaxx> kernel patching fun stuff
<ademan> its looking for the upstream tarball right?
<joejaxx> i should just patch the vanilla kernel
<joejaxx> lol
* joejaxx wget gets
<LaserJock> ademan: what's in upstream/
<ademan> or is the problem that i'm calling pbuilder from the package folder? should i be calling it from the folder with the *.dsc in it?
<ademan> LaserJock: no such folder
<ademan> and i can't even tell where it should be, should it be package/upstream/  or upstream/ or should it be package/source-tree/upstream/ ?
<ademan> package of course is my own shorthand for eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1 or whatever
<LaserJock> ademan: can you also pastebin debian/rules for us?
<ademan> LaserJock: sure
<ademan> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/kylHzF68.html
<ademan> i tried screwing with the tar command because tar ../"upstream/*.tar.gz" just didn't seem right to me, but alas to no avail
<LaserJock> hmm, it's kind of a messy rules file to me
<ademan> line 62
<ademan> i changed it back just fyi
<ademan> yeah i dunno, i didn't make it, i don't even know what one looks like, till now of course
<LaserJock> ok, so where is the tar.gz? 
<ademan> currently its in the dir above the package dir
<LaserJock> what is the package dir?
<somerville32> Hey
<somerville32> Just wondering, but why isn't there some sort of meta-package to install all the dev/package tools?
<ademan> exactly? its: eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1
<somerville32> It almost seems logical to have one (or a few specialized ones)
<LaserJock> somerville32: well, that's hard to define really
<LaserJock> ademan: so in eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1/ there is a tar.gz?
<rmjb> hmm... how can I set global proxy settings for apt?
<ademan> LaserJock: no the one above that
<LaserJock> ademan: well, it's looking for it in there I think
<ademan> hrm ok
<ademan> but why's it looking for a tar.gz anyways?
<ademan> the uupdate's already been done...
<LaserJock> because it's going to unpack it in eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1/upstream/
<ademan> k i'll give it a shot
<ademan> thanks
<LaserJock> or rather eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1/source-tree/ is where it's going to build it
<LaserJock> ademan: did you look at the original source package
<LaserJock> ?
<ademan> not really, i suppose that's a good plan
<ademan> it has a upstream/source.tar.gz so i guess i'll follow that
<rmjb> question, the proxy settings in synaptic, will they also affect apt-get, aptitude and update-manager?
<ajmitch> unlikely
<ajmitch> apt-get & aptitude honour the http_proxy environment variable
<rmjb> the format for that will simply be export http_proxy=server:8080 ? or do I have to put the http:// in before the server?
<ademan> LaserJock: i put it in upstream but to no avail
<ajmitch> with http://, I believe
<ajmitch> at least that's what I have
<ademan> in a possibly related note, i looked at the targz in upstream/ in the old package and it's absolutely NOTHING like the tar.gz i've got
<rmjb> let me state my real question, I'm testing a .deb in a vm, testing the install dependencies. I'll test one package, then revert the snapshot and test another. It has a heavy dependency that I want automatically installed when installing the .deb, but I'm using squid to cache it... so I really want to proxy to take effect on Gdebi
<rmjb> ajmitch ^^^ ?
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes?
<ajmitch> I don't know what gdebi will honour
<ajmitch> just test it & see
<ajmitch> or use a local mirror of the package
<ademan> HRM, i think my problem may be that it just plain isnt a source tarball that i've got here...
<rmjb> yeah... shoot, takes a bout 1/2 hour for the dependency
<rmjb> ah well
<ajmitch> must be large
<rmjb> nah, slow connection
<ajmitch> can't you stick it on a local http server?
<rmjb> if this squid doesn't work will have to do that
<LaserJock> ademan: I'm not much help right now as I have no real working Ubuntu box. I'd look in maybe Debian.Readme or find some info on where that tarball came from
<ademan> alright thanks
<LaserJock> sorry
<somerville32> LaserJock: You're on the list of MOTU Mentors. Do you still have positions open?
<ademan> LaserJock: unfortunately there's no readme in there
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're popular today :)
<crimsun> can't go wrong with one-third of the MOTU trinity
<lastnode> hey crimsun, ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hello lastnode 
* bddebian had someone contact him recently :-(
<lastnode> hows it going, guys?
<crimsun> bddebian: ...frown? pssht, you're a supastar!
<bddebian> Oh yeah, ,I've done soo much for feisty :'-(
<ajmitch> "And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another."
<ajmitch> bddebian: lucky you, I've never got mail about mentoring
<bddebian> ajmitch: pfft, you are all greater than me
<ajmitch> bddebian: not possible by definition
<bddebian> Gah
<LaserJock> ajmitch: apparently I am popular
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm just a MOTU fanboy
<LaserJock> somerville32: did you email me today?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you're a superstar
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> security newb apparently
<somerville32> LaserJock: Nope.
* ajmitch will go back to his adoring fanboy status
<LaserJock> somerville32: ok, maybe I will
<LaserJock> I just need to get some things cleared up
<bddebian> LaserJock: Actually I told this guy to try to catch you here.  He's an EE major and interested in Ubuntu so I thought MOTUScience might interest him
<LaserJock> like a working computer
<somerville32> LaserJock: :}
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, looked promising, haven't had a chance to email back yet
<bddebian> LaserJock: Oh, he e-mailed yoU?
<LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
<LaserJock> but I'm stuck on a sarge box today as my Ubuntu computer's got hacked
<rmjb> so... I've been sending emails to the ubuntu-motu list about once a week or so on dmraid... if I'm doing something wrong with my approach to the sync request can one of you guys tell me?
<bddebian> LaserJock: So dist-upgrade it ;-P
<LaserJock> can't I don't think
<LaserJock> I need a 2.4 kernel
<LaserJock> sarge was the last thing I could find that had it
<LaserJock> other then slackware I suppose
<LaserJock> but I wasn't going there
<bddebian> I was looking at a $400 amd64 hp/compaq laptop on E-bay today...
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> you looked at System76?
<bddebian> System76?
<LaserJock> company that sells laptops/desktop/servers with Ubuntu preinstalled
<LaserJock> they have a laptop for $700-$800 I think
<bddebian>  $700 > $400 :-)
<LaserJock> oh, not by too much ;-)
<ajmitch> rmjb: sorry that it's been sitting for awhile, I'll try & take a look tonight
<ajmitch> from the bug report, it looks like it should be fine
<bddebian> LaserJock: Got a URL?
<LaserJock> bddebian: for the laptop?
<bddebian> Aye
<LaserJock> http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1_10?osCsid=9af2e853e19bf2a9971f2990869de5b4
<bddebian> thx
<LaserJock> they only sell Ubuntu computers
<rmjb> ajmitch: thanks
<LaserJock> they also came to the Mt. View UDS
* ajmitch wouldn't mind a core 2 duo laptop
<ajmitch> who feels generous?
<rmjb> I think system76 were the ones that created the ubuntu stickers for your computer
<LaserJock> yeah
<bddebian> LaserJock: Uhm, those are Intel boxen
<ajmitch> rmjb: yes, it'd be nice if I actually had one of those stickers :)
<LaserJock> they might also be donating some hardware to the MOTU
<ajmitch> nice of them
<LaserJock> bddebian: but isn't that what you want? ;-)
<rmjb> I would not mind a sticker myself... I really can't remember the last time I booted windows on this PC
<ajmitch> (not to individual MOTUs, AIUI)
<bddebian> No, I want a 64bit machine to test/build Ubuntu shit on :-)
<ajmitch> bddebian: intel does 64-bit, remember
<LaserJock> ajmitch: yes, but maybe you can get one diverted from London to NZ ;-)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a small detour :)
<bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah but how many fairly inexpensive Itanium machines are around? :)
<ajmitch> bddebian: I didn't want an itanic
<ajmitch> core 2 duo is 64-bit
<LaserJock> bddebian: a core duo 2 at least is 64bit
<rmjb> core2 is supposed to have the amd64 stuff
<crimsun> em64t, yep.
<plugwash> intel are now using amds 64 bit extentions though they renamed them so it wasn't quite so obvious that they were now the cloners
<bddebian> A core-duo 2 is 64-bit?  Damn, I'm not keeping up am I
<ajmitch> no, you're not
<LaserJock> I think my imac might be 64 bit
<ajmitch> G5?
<bddebian> G5?
<LaserJock> no, intel
* ajmitch hears a parrot
<crimsun> must be your children, bddebian. Best lock 'em in a dark cellar!
<ajmitch> ah right
<bddebian> *cough*
<bddebian> crimsun: Yeah,, good plan
<LaserJock> did they start with core-duo or core-duo2 ?
<ajmitch> core duo
<ajmitch> I think :)
* LaserJock digs out the box
<plugwash> i didn't think code-duo supported 64 bit
<ajmitch> core 2 duo does
<ajmitch> core duo didn't, iirc
<LaserJock> darn, mine's a core duo
<LaserJock> I think the new ones are core 2 duo though
<paran> hello. what is the best way to submit a small patch against a universe package? create a new bug in launchpad with the patch included in the report?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> if it's for an existing bug you can just attach it there
<bddebian> Gah, Intels site is a joke
<joejaxx> hello all
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> :)
<paran> LaserJock: thanks. it's a new bug, a fix for cryptsetup initramfs hook.
<jdong> LaserJock: core duos don't do 64-bit... unless you're a lucky n millionth customer of the 2.16GHz variety ;-)
<jdong> (64-bit capable T2600's have been spotted randomly....)
<jdong> a lot of the core duos though support vmx... which should bring a few hours of entertainment ;-)
<rmjb_> vmx? virtualization?
<jdong> rmjb_: correct
<imbrandon> crap
<jdong> the first batch of core duos (T2400,2500,2600) all had VMX
<imbrandon> ok man i got a major freakin problem
<jdong> the later released T <2400 ones had vmx stripped though :(
<imbrandon> any partition guru's in the house ?
<jdong> imbrandon: what happened, out of curiousity?
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> fsked up an partition table somehow on a computer i cant afford to loose the data on at home
<ajmitch> what's up?
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<ajmitch> ah
<imbrandon> and i'm half tired
<jdong> imbrandon: do you remember where the partitions started/ended?
<ajmitch> parted can scan for where the partitions should start & end, based on knowledge of the filesystem
<joejaxx> does debian still have a 2.4 kernel?
<imbrandon> jdong: no idea, i have a good guess
<jdong> imbrandon: or parted can figure that out
<ajmitch> joejaxx: etch will ship with 2.6.18
<rmjb_> the partitions are still there?
<jdong> the latter takes a lot longer
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i mean in its repos
<jdong> imbrandon: you mgiht wanna try guessing once
<imbrandon> parted complains when i load it
<ajmitch> joejaxx: you can search
<joejaxx> ajmitch: is etch the new one?
<ajmitch> of course parted will complain
<jdong> just don't mount rw and you won't hurt anything :)
<ajmitch> joejaxx: yes
<imbrandon> jdong: i cant afford to guess wrong and fuck the disk beond data recovery
<joejaxx> oh ok then i want the old one
<ajmitch> imbrandon: no spare disk to dump the whole lot onto?
<imbrandon> not really
<imbrandon> its the biggest drive i have free atm
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> ok lemme pastbin some output 
<imbrandon> one sec
* imbrandon is on a dapper live cd
<rmjb_> if you're tired go to sleep man, figuring out what your partition table is supposed to look like can take hours, take a nap and look at it fresh
<rmjb_> took my over 4 hours to recover my partitions once
<jdong> rmjb_: how can you sleep with data at risk
<jdong> :)
<rmjb_> because i checked and rechecked and checked again before even writing one thing to the disk
<imbrandon> rmjb_: i have to goto work in 10 hours and i need this done before i leave in the morning  ( its not /my/ system )
<plugwash> joejaxx etch will not be shipping with a 2.4 kernel
<jdong> I supposed this would be a really really bad time to lecture about backups?
<plugwash> sarge ships with both 2.4 and 2.6 and will always continue to do so right until its eol'd
<joejaxx> plugwash: which is why i said i wanted an older release :D
<jdong> even little 512-byte backups that could've saved your rear?
<jdong> ;-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: man, it's just our day. I got hacked and your partitions got screwed
<imbrandon> jdong: its not my system, my shit is always backed up
<LaserJock> I think we just better go home
<imbrandon> hahaha
<joejaxx> ok so i need sarge
<rmjb_> the hardest thing for me was figuring out the sector boundries for the partition table, if there's a tool that can do a readonly scan and do that you're 3/4 way there
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I'm running sarge with 2.4 right now
<imbrandon> LaserJock: wow
<jdong> rmjb_: I've seen parted howtos for doing that
<joejaxx> LaserJock: the reason i am asking all these questions is because i am about to cluster every computer in my house
* ajmitch gets nervous about backups..
<imbrandon> ajmitch: http://pastebin.ca/262066
<imbrandon> ^^ someone
<crimsun> man, if the MOTU deities are having computer problems, I'm probably going to crash my car into a brick wall or something
<joejaxx> LOL unknown
<LaserJock> crimsun: you better not
<ajmitch> crimsun: please don't
<LaserJock> crimsun: we need you healthy with working fingers
<imbrandon> crimsun: noooooo
<ajmitch> we don't have 10 people to replace crimsun 
<joejaxx> Lol
<imbrandon> ajmitch: or 15
<jdong> imbrandon: that's not a partition table :)
<rmjb_> imbrandon: where there logical drives? was hda1 starting on a sector other than 1?
<imbrandon> crap this is really shitty, you wan na know what happened ? would that help in my trubbles
<jdong> rmjb_: it looks like other random data being interpreted as a partition table
<ajmitch> imbrandon: that's just to do u-u-s
<imbrandon> ajmitch: right on
<imbrandon> ok here is what happened / what i did , so far to end up here
<ajmitch> we'd probably need another 20 or so to replace his other work
<rmjb> it might not help your troubles, the partition table is already gone, but it might be a good story
<jdong> well, probably parted is your best bet
<jdong> though it's quite time-consuming
<imbrandon> the computer had xp pro loaded, then on another partition vista got loaded , then vista got deleted , but still showed up in the boot menu, thus boot from windows boot disk "fixmbr" and "fixboot" , then invalaid part table, and not i'm here
<imbrandon> jdong: it dont work, done been there
<jdong> imbrandon: tried a more recent parted?
<imbrandon> jdong: latest cvas
<imbrandon> cvs
<jdong> :-/
<ajmitch> screwy
<jdong> imbrandon: what did parted say?
<imbrandon> jdong: no partition table, exiting
<imbrandon> jdong: i'm not a total screwball
<jdong> imbrandon: sorry, didn't say you were....
* jdong starts crying
<imbrandon> i know :)
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> imbrandon: gpart?
<jdong> imbrandon: that's what I meant when I said gparted before
<jdong> sorry, different tool, REALLY similar name
<jdong> imbrandon: http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/
<imbrandon> jdong: gparted, qtparted,cfdisk,fdisk
<jdong> imbrandon: gpart... not gparted :)
<imbrandon> jdong: and this will halp how without a readable partition table ?
<jdong> imbrandon: it scans the disk looking for filesystem superblocks
<ajmitch> imbrandon: if the filesystems are there, it can scan for theboundaries
<jdong> imbrandon: and uses that info to compuse a filesystem
<jdong> partition table *
<imbrandon> hrm
<ajmitch> how useful, static binaries
* imbrandon looks
<LaserJock> "Gpart is a tool which tries to guess the primary partition table of a PC-type hard disk in case the primary partition table in sector 0 is damaged, incorrect or deleted."
<LaserJock> that sound about like what you want
<joejaxx> nice tool
* ajmitch recommends not using it while drunk
<jdong> joejaxx: though you hope you'd never have to use it :)
<ajmitch> however much you may wish to drink in this situation :)
<joejaxx> jdong: :)
<jdong> ajmitch: right now it looks like /dev/urandom is in his partition table. How could it possibly be worse? ;-)
<ajmitch> jdong: everything gone
<rmjb> okay that looks like the ticket... I was going to recommend ptedit from partition magic... it's what I used some 7 years ago... but that's a windows app and you guys would shoot me
<ajmitch> rmjb: he's fixing a windows box
<crimsun> dude, ponies in the partition table. rock.
<jdong> rmjb: partition magic is excused from any anti-windows remarks :)
<imbrandon> hhahahaha
* ajmitch gets out the rifle
<rmjb> the thing with partition table problems, your data is all there... just have to get the one piece, the partition table back, and you magically get your data back
<rmjb> just don't format after you repartition
<Lathiat> someone remind me, any/all, which is which? :)
<imbrandon> ohhh looks like this is working *HOPES*
<jdong> rmjb: yeah, though I'd feel much better if I was able to dd the whole drive to another disk first....
<imbrandon> if it does i'll kiss you jdong
<rmjb> all is arch independent
<jdong> imbrandon: :)
<LaserJock> Lathiat:  any is for any arch, all is for all archs (i.e. arce indep)
<Lathiat> thanks :)
<ajmitch> imbrandon: careful there..
<imbrandon> hehehe
<Lathiat> thats what i thought but had to check its someone confusing :)
<jdong> I thought ubuntu was just a hugging thing?
<jdong> unless I should really look at feisty-artwork?
<LaserJock> hehe
<crimsun> Lathiat: I think of "any" arch that has gcc, since not "all" arches can execute another's binaries
<LaserJock> Lathiat: it is, I wish sometimes we had better words for that
<ajmitch> Lathiat: just memorise debian policy
<rmjb> jdong: I'm sure you can write a part table a bunch of times and your data will be safe... when you're frantic you don't think that though
<jdong> rmjb: yeah, but get boundaries wrong and your first careless mount could mean death to your data...
<jdong> and not every filesystem is so respectful of -o ro
<rmjb> always mount ro
<rmjb> untill
<rmjb> true
<rmjb> p magic allow some flexability in that though
<jdong> rmjb: as I said... I'd feel /better/ if I was able to do a full backup first :)
* LaserJock is convinced he should hang up his techie hat and read books
<rmjb> jdong: definitly
<LaserJock> too much stress
<rmjb> gpart says is recovers primary part table, what about extended logical drives?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: I think I'm going to retire & do gardening
<LaserJock> ajmitch: nifty, I bet you guys can get some decent gardens in NZ
<jdong> rmjb: It's able to guess that to some degree
<crimsun> I'm going to take up fixing the brick wall
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a bit better than reno, true
<LaserJock> jdong: how do you know if it guesses wrong?
<ajmitch> crimsun will dedicate his life to the care of ponies
<ajmitch> LaserJock: everything blows up, simple
<jdong> LaserJock: it usually tells you about it...
<jdong> through inconsistencies
<rmjb> actually, your logical drives will magically come back coming to think of it
<jdong> (i.e. two different guessing algorithms returned conflicting results...)
<LaserJock> interesting
<rmjb> that table starts at the beginning of the extended partition (not in sec 0) and is stored as a linked list
<LaserJock> you'd think a partition table would be a little safer
<ajmitch> LaserJock: this dates back to pre-history
<LaserJock> yeah, but as much as I've seen people mess up partition tables you'd think we would have gotten past this
<crimsun> remember that beer and asm don't mix
<imbrandon> woot
<LaserJock> screw the wobbly windows, I want a bullet-proof partition table
<ajmitch> LaserJock: LVM FTW
<imbrandon> it looks like it guressed correct
<rmjb> with a pointer to the definition of the next partition at the end of the last
<crimsun> and we love beer a lot more than we love asm
<imbrandon> now to write this somehow
<jdong> ajmitch: losing your lvm metadata? ;-)
<ajmitch> jdong: that's far more robust
<imbrandon> LaserJock: bulletproof ssh :P
<jdong> imbrandon: -W :)
<LaserJock> bah
<ajmitch> jdong: see /etc/lvm/backup
<LaserJock> imbrandon: in the end it's all PEBKAC
<jdong> LaserJock: no, no.. he's in his right to blame vista for this one... :)
<LaserJock> yeah, just say if it was running Ubuntu it wouldn't have happened
<rmjb> vista is higher in the blaming order than PEBKAC
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe
<jdong> LaserJock: ha, that joke would only be funny after the data was recovered successfully
<crimsun> I'd be pretty sore if Vista magically appeared on my HD
<crimsun> so yeah, I'm pretty sure it's all PEBKAC
<ajmitch> crimsun: grumpy!
<ajmitch> I'm sure it's mark's secret plan to ship vista
<crimsun> where?! can I dist-upgrade to it?
<imbrandon> well what it guessed looked corrct, so i told it to write the table, now waiting for that to finish
<imbrandon> we'll see 
<jdong> crimsun: yeah, cat /dev/urandom > /dev/hda.... imbrandon can tell you all about that command :D
<rmjb> crimsun: only after eleventy thousand dollarts
<rmjb> s/dollarts/dollars
<crimsun> (actually I was going to suggest that he dd his entire skewed HD to another one as a backup first)
<imbrandon> one hundred and eleventy one thousand dollars
<rmjb> imbrandon: before you reboot do the fdisk -l first
<ajmitch> crimsun: yeah, I asked if he had a spare..
<imbrandon> crimsun: i would if i had a spare, all other hdds big enough are in use
<crimsun> ah
<jdong> imbrandon: gpart was confident with its results? (no inconsistencies?)
<imbrandon> i think this is gonna work though, this is the last nail in the coffin though, i will never support windows again , even for "mom and dad"
<ajmitch> imbrandon: not even enough free space on another one? I use dd & netcat to backup at times
<imbrandon> jdong: yea
<jdong> imbrandon: whew, lucky :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: crap i dident think about that yea i had room on the file server to dd it to a file
<imbrandon> grr, oh well
<ajmitch> it takes awhile
<imbrandon> jdong: we'll see its writing it now
<rmjb> how long does it take to write a part table?
<jdong> imbrandon: well, if you're paranoid, it's not too late to back up now
<jdong> rmjb: re-reading it back takes a bit
<imbrandon> rmjb: aparently this takes about 5+ minutes to run
<jdong> imbrandon: usually data doesn't begin being corrupted until you try to mount :)
<rmjb> oh, the results aren't cached
<imbrandon> no
<jdong> rmjb: right, it's a dry-run by default
<LaserJock> how sane of it
<ajmitch> imbrandon: if you have time, might be a good idea to take a snapshot of data before booting
<rmjb> jdong: what would be the best thing for him to mount?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: recovered your system yet?
<rmjb> a vfat partition?
<imbrandon> Edit this table (y,n) : n
<imbrandon> Activate which partition (1..4, q to quit) : 1
<imbrandon> Write this partition table (y,n) : y
<imbrandon> * Warning: partition table written, you should reboot now.
<rmjb> as  test
<LaserJock> ajmitch: OS X is up on the imac
<rmjb> imbrandon: don't reboot
<imbrandon> rmjb: i know
<LaserJock> but no network until I get the uni IT guys to unblock the mac
<rmjb> partprobe /dev/hda
<imbrandon> i'm going to ro mount it first
<ajmitch> LaserJock: you can give the superstar session tomorrow?
<jdong> imbrandon: wait
<LaserJock> I'm installing Ubuntu on the other machine right now
<rmjb> fdisk -l /dev/hda
<imbrandon> jdong: ro
<jdong> imbrandon: what filesystems you ahve to work wtih?
<imbrandon> ntfs
<LaserJock> ajmitch: should be fine, I even backed up my notes from the last one
<jdong> imbrandon: bleh, then go ahead :)
<jdong> I was gonna suggest a ro fsck
<jdong> but funny story about nonexistent fsck.ntfs :)
<imbrandon> rmjb: its ahppy now
<imbrandon> happy*
<imbrandon> ( fdisk -l )
<imbrandon> hrm
* ajmitch hands imbrandon a mt dew
<jdong> ajmitch: not a good idea in a state of panic :)
<imbrandon> root@ubuntu:/mnt/hda1# ls -l
<imbrandon> total 3244532
<imbrandon> -r-------- 1 root root        904 2006-06-16 08:37 artpdbg.log
<imbrandon> -r-------- 1 root root          0 2005-12-04 23:50 AUTOEXEC.BAT
<imbrandon> dr-x------ 1 root root       4096 2006-09-25 06:14 Boot
<imbrandon> -r-------- 1 root root        425 2006-09-25 06:14 Boot.BAK
<imbrandon> -r-------- 1 root root        425 2006-09-25 03:26 boot.ini
<imbrandon> gawd i love yall
<jdong> yay :)
* imbrandon owes everyone in here a beer
<jdong> imbrandon: that'd be illegal for me ;-)
<rmjb> love linux man... pqmagic would have taken you a LOT longer
<imbrandon> jdong: ok a drink :)
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> dapper live cd FTW
<ajmitch> imbrandon: when can I collect?
<jdong> I wonder how much worship mail the gpart guy gets :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: when you come for an interview ( or spain UDS what ever comes first )_
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> next UDS probably isn't that likely
<imbrandon> jdong: i think i'm going to send the gpart guy some cash on payday, he saved my ass this timre
<imbrandon> time*
<jdong> imbrandon: cool, that guy definitely deserves it :)
<imbrandon> ok now for the real test , brb gonna reboot it
<jdong> imbrandon: and a planet blogpost about gpart wouldn't be a bad idea either ;-)
<imbrandon> if i'm not back cursing in 5 min
<imbrandon> its all good
<jdong> lol
<imbrandon> jdong: definately
<imbrandon> this tool should be in ubutnu recovery console
<jdong> yeah
<imbrandon> just for livecd boots like this
<imbrandon> ok brb rebooting
<jdong> gl hf gg nr20
<ajmitch> I see gpart is merely in universe
<ajmitch> and I see that apt decided to go madly out of control & crash when I tried apt-cache madison
<rmjb> the last update on the site is 2001...
<rmjb> for gpart
<jdong> yet it's still useful up to this day :)
<rmjb> looks like the app is solid since then
<jdong> it's not like filesystems change all that often either :)
<rmjb> true
<jdong> at least the basic geometry info
<jdong> it's just fortunate his ntfs partition wasn't corrupt at all
<jdong> it would've been a nightmare if that were the case :)
<jdong> LaserJock: does your hacking story have a happy ending yet ;-)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I just hit the button to use LVM on my new Ubuntu install
<jdong> imbrandon and my disasters apparently have happy endings now :)
<jdong> so today could be the day that murphy wasn't able to keep up with us :)
<ajmitch> the day isn't done yet
<rmjb> it's done for me, just crossed midnight
<rmjb> what happened to you jdong?
<LaserJock> well, I was expecting all hell to rain down on me from the uni IT people
<jdong> rmjb: I force-resized an online ext3 partition :D
<LaserJock> but it was more like "meh, it happens"
<jdong> and it actually worked :)
<rmjb> that ... doesn't sound like it should have worked
<jdong> silly Dapper installer for not reserving resize inodes...
<jdong> rmjb: no kidding :)
<jdong> rmjb: e2fsck preened a bit on subsequent boot, but the inode numbers were all to temporary-type files
* Lathiat smirks
<Lathiat> uh "congratulations" ;p
<jdong> and I just recently finished my md5sum pass over my important data
<jdong> Lathiat: lol, I don't think that deserves congrats :D
<rmjb> you have md5sums of your data?
<jdong> rmjb: yeah... to an extent
<rmjb> sounds like a good idea
<jdong> rmjb: it's a remnant from when I used to play alot with filesystems
<jdong> rmjb: i.e. testing for corruption after some test hard resets
<Lathiat> did you ever corrupt anything? :)
<jdong> Lathiat: oh yeah, quite a bit
<Lathiat> really? ouch
<Lathiat> on what?
<jdong> XFS and hard resets do not mix at all :)
<Lathiat> hah
<jdong> not even with write barriers
<joejaxx> are we going to implement GRumpyGRoundhog?
<Lathiat> XFS also doesn't like having a full disk
<jdong> not even with write cache off
<Lathiat> it pretends to write things and they really fail
<jdong> Lathiat: I've seen XFS performance sharply drop after only 50% full... which is concerning
<rmjb> LaserJock: i finally uploaded an update to the pacakge on revu, should I comment what I did?
<jdong> rmjb: I also typically print out a fdisk -l on the systems I install....
<jdong> it's silly until something like this happens
<LaserJock> rmjb: that would be nice
<_MMA_> Hey guys. Normally I wouldnt ask but does anyone know how to remove a configured network printer from gnome-cups-manager? PM me If so.
<rmjb> jdong: actually after my part issue I used to print pqmagic's partinfo when i did an install... it was about 6 pages
<jdong> _MMA_: umm, the same as how you'd remove any printer?
<_MMA_> GUI doesnt work.
<rmjb> _MMA_: Edit -> Become Administrator
<LaserJock> jdong: and the saga continues with -devel ;-)
<LaserJock> is it a computer black hole day or something?
<joejaxx> lol
<rmjb> I hope that blackhole passes little trinidad
<jdong> LaserJock: no kidding... I better update all my backups :)
<rmjb> imbrandon: back yet?
<jdong> rmjb: he said if he didn't come back that'd be good news, right?
<rmjb> oh.. right
<rmjb> and here I was waiting... guess I can go to sleep
<ademan_> is there a mailing list i could subscribe to to hopefully resolve this godawful problem with the eclipse-cdt ?
<jdong> ademan_: doko in #ubuntu-devel is usually the one who takes care of eclipse...
<jdong> ademan_: what's up with eclipse-cdt?
<crimsun> what's the issue with eclipse-cdt?
<ademan_> it's incompatible with the current package of eclipse
<ademan_> eclipse is version 3.2 wheras the cdt is 3.0.1
<ademan_> they don't play nice together
<ademan_> so i've been trying for the past week to package a newer version
<crimsun> and how is that progressing?
<ademan_> butting my head against the same wall over and over and over again
<crimsun> doko's an extremely busy person
<ademan_> i think the problem is i don't have a source package like the one in the package
<jdong> I've also found myself very incompetent at java packaging
<jdong> I tried quite a bit with that azureus package...
<jdong> and doko magically did it literally overnight...
<ademan_> geeze, does he have an email?
<crimsun> yep, see his LP page
<jdong> ademan_: search him up on launchpad
<ademan_> just look him up by doko?
<crimsun> now, which version do you need in feisty?
<ademan_> 3.1.x
<ademan_> but really since the package doesnt work at all, it should be in edgy...
<ademan_> shouldn't make people use backports for that i don't think
<crimsun> link to the tarballs?
<ademan_> of the new version?
<ademan_> that's a big problem
<crimsun> why is it a big problem?
<ademan_> the source is supposedly in the sdk (i'll give you a link) but it doesn't look right
<ademan_> http://download.eclipse.org/tools/cdt/releases/callisto/dist/3.1.1/
<ademan_> unfortunately there doesnt really seem to be another source other than a 1gb cvs snapshot of it and a bunch of related tools
<jdong> ademan_: most likely if it's remedied it'll be through backports....
<jdong> ademan_: I've not had any luck convincing anyone to introduce newer upstream versions through other means :)
<jdong> ademan_: and I've been playing this game since Warty
<ademan_> jdong: but its absolutely essential, it doesn't work otherwise
<jdong> ademan_: I understand...
<ademan_> :-(
<jdong> ademan_: as I said... I haven't been able to convince a new upstream version into a stable release... regardless of circumstances
<jdong> *cough* *cough* mga drivers *cough*
<ademan_> well its not like i'm going to get it packaged any time soon
<ademan_> i've been butting my head up against this for almost a week
<LaserJock> good night guys
<ademan_> night
<jdong> night LaserJock
<jdong> ademan_: I said the same thing with azureus :)
<crimsun> ademan_: did you check rawhide?
<ademan_> crimsun: don't even know what that is
<jdong> ademan_: as crimsun is saying... redhat/fedora is probably your best source
<ademan_> but i'll google it
<jdong> ademan_: rawhide = fedora development
<ademan_> ah
<jdong> ademan_: they're usually the gold mine of gcj patches :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
* ajmitch has a totally wonky signal on 1 monitor
<ajmitch> I wonder if it's the card, the driver, or the monitor
<jdong> isn't this a fun day?
<ajmitch> well I have been testing nouveau a bit lately :)
<ajmitch> if it's the monitor, I have a new 20" panel that's been ordered already
<ajmitch> monitor OSD still works, so I bet the card is in a funny state or something
<ajmitch> killing X brought it back
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: compiz bugs. I occurs to me because of the old compiz-quinn branch, any bugs previous to the feisty version of compiz are thus mostly useless
<Burgundavia> thus my modest suggestion is to set all compiz bugs to be needinfo if they have not been updated since feisty opened
<ajmitch> s/any/most/
<Burgundavia> thoughts?
<ademan_> beryl++
<ajmitch> plenty could still apply
<Burgundavia> yes, they could, hence the needinfo, not closed
<ajmitch> fine, set needs info
<Burgundavia> can I mass change bugs in LP?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> this is launchpad
<ajmitch> you *may* be able to something via email\
<ajmitch> by CCing the various bug numbers
<ajmitch> if it works that way
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> launchpad: "we had bug triagers"
<ademan_> hey i've been bothering the fedora core people, and i got an RPM, how can i open it?
<Burgundavia> but then I need to gpg sign my emails, which means I need my key, blah blah blah
<jdong> ademan_: you need a SRPM
<jdong> and use rpm2cpio
<ademan_> jdong: you mean a src.rpm ?
<ademan_> cause i have that
<jdong> ademan_: yep same diff
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: should I tell them they should only test with stock Xorg as well?
<ademan_> either way, how can i open it? the archive manager doesn't like it
<Burgundavia> archive manager should
<Burgundavia> that is a nasty and dumb bug
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: well stock Xorg is fine for free drivers & current proprietary nvidia drivers only
<Burgundavia> right
<ademan_> says archive type not supported
<Burgundavia> what should I tell the ATI people then?
<ademan_> to get their asses in gear?
<ajmitch> no idea, I don't have an ATI card
<jdong> ajmitch: tough toenails? :D
* jdong hugs his mobility radeon x1400m :D
<Burgundavia> sorry, connection hates me
<Burgundavia> did you say anything ajmitch?
<ajmitch> nothing important
<ademan_> so yeah, is there an alternative way to open an rpm?
<ademan_> since the package manager is being retarded
<jdong> ademan_: rpm2cpio
<ademan_> alright thanks
<ademan_> hrm, what package is it in?
<Burgundavia> ok, that was fun
<jdong> jdong@jdong-laptop:~/tmp$ apt-file search rpm2cpio
<jdong> rpm: usr/bin/rpm2cpio
<jdong> ademan_: ^^
<Burgundavia> ajmitch: "we require the make and model number of your video card, to help us debug driver issues"
<Burgundavia> that correct?
<ademan_> jdong: i got a command not found, and since /usr/bin is in $PATH doesnt that mean i don't have it
<jdong> ademan_: you got rpm installed?
<ademan_> no, just install the rpm package?
<jdong> apt-get install rpm
<ajmitch> Burgundavia: it'd help
<Burgundavia> ok, sounds good
<ajmitch> since it'll give an indication as to what driver they may be using
<Burgundavia> is there a way to determine which driver x is currently using?
<Burgundavia> aside from greping xorg.conf, of course
<ajmitch> glxinfo doesn't return the version
<ajmitch> nor would grepping xorg.conf
<ajmitch> attaching /var/log/Xorg.0.log may be helpful
<ajmitch> eg
<ajmitch> (II) Module glx: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
<ajmitch>         compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.9629
<ajmitch> this log gives all the info I need
<tepsipakki> woohoo, alpine was released (0.8), the pine replacement with a sensible license (apache)
<ajmitch> sensible & non-GPL-compatible
<Burgundavia> rock
<tepsipakki> really
<tepsipakki> ?
<tepsipakki> but it's distributable?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> apache is free software
<tepsipakki> ok, _more_ sensible than the previous license :)
<tepsipakki> I'll try to package it today
<ajmitch> back later
<jdong> anyone have any recommendations for a php or cgi script for router status type info
<jdong> I might just start ripping from ipcop...
<jdong> but I need something on my apache server to display active NAT'ed connections.... and maybe some other stats
<superm1> imbrandon, you around?
<StevenK> Hum.
<ailean> update on the feisty CD?
<dholbach> good morning
<palski> crimsun: ?
<joejaxx> Gooble Gooble
<joejaxx> goes the turkey
<joejaxx> bbl LOL
<stgraber> If someone has some minutes, can he have a look at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3576 and tell me fi he saw anything wrong with my upload, thx
<stgraber> s/fi/if/
<\sh> moins
<Hobbsee> hey \sh 
<ajmitch> hi \sh 
<fernando> moin all
<lastnode> Fujitsu, ping please
<\sh> new wine 0.9.26 is reaching the archives
<ajmitch> once an admin waves it through
<\sh> actually universe is not in freeze mode..so someone has to wave it through...and I'm waiting for my syncs too ;)
<ajmitch> right, hence why I said waves it through :)
<ajmitch> since the whole archive is frozen in launchpad terms
<\sh> but wow is not even working under wine on my dual core laptop
<\sh> but it could be that I'm too dump to work with wine ;)
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: ping
<siretart> \sh: so plain wine is able to run wow nowadays?
<ajmitch> it should be able to
* siretart assumed that the transgaming flavor was needed for that
<ajmitch> not that we ever want to encourage such time wasting amongst our MOTUs
<ajmitch> no, there was a patch against wine that fixed an issue or two
<siretart> interesting
<ajmitch> supposedly merged in 0.9.25 or .26
<\sh> 0.9.25 should be able to run wow without any problems.
<\sh> but I never succeed...f
<\sh> while running cedega, no problem (tested it on a friends laptop)
* ajmitch has never played WoW
<jsgotangco> it can be pretty addicting
<ajmitch> heard it sucks too much time away :)
<jsgotangco> ;especially when you get a mob
<\sh> I just play it once or twice a week
<\sh> in the evening during my time in the hotel
* siretart plays with dynamic weavers and gdb :/
* StevenK notes he has never played WoW either.
<ajmitch> \sh: you still live in a hotel?
<\sh> ajmitch: jepp...in karlsruhe
<StevenK> Last night, I was playing Can I Debug python-qt3 And Not Go Insane? I lost.
<\sh> StevenK: depends how you debug python-qt3...c++ sourcecode is really creepy 
<StevenK> \sh: *Autogenerated* C++ is much much worse.
<\sh> I know, honey, I know ;)
* StevenK grins.
* siretart grins even wider
<siretart> template meta programs make even more fun with AOP :)
<lastnode> Fujitsu, you there mate?
<ajmitch> sick people
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: heya
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: hi :)
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: how are you today?
<Hobbsee> okay
<CypherBIOS> good
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: I sent a email for you yesterday, when you have some time, please review the package that I've uploaded, please :)
<Hobbsee> i saw that, in the blur
* Hobbsee has to be in a nitpicky mood to review
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: likes reviewing.
* StevenK steals Hobbsee's powers of delegation.
<Hobbsee> :P
<CypherBIOS> :)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: not at this hour of night
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: haha.  it's pre midnight
<ajmitch> for you
<CypherBIOS> wow, is morning here now \o/
<Hobbsee> for you too?
<ajmitch> I'm not in .au, remember?
<ajmitch> closer to 1AM
<Hobbsee> bah.  you should run on our timezone, you puny insignificant island!
<Hobbsee> ah right, you're 3 hours out still...
* StevenK teaches Hobbsee about 'TZ=NZ date'
<ajmitch> 3 hours out?
* ajmitch wishes apt-get didn't decide to bail out & crash horribly
<StevenK> ajmitch: It's a feature.
<ajmitch> a very special feature
<StevenK> It's telling you that you should be using aptitude.
<ajmitch> aptitude source doesn't work
<ajmitch> I usually prefer aptitude
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: as in, 3 hours difference
<ajmitch> bug 73062
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73062 in apt "[feisty]  apt and aptitude crashing" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73062
<StevenK> Neat.
<ajmitch> yep
* Hobbsee hasnt been bitten by that yet
<ajmitch> maybe I should hunt down mvo
<ajmitch> I only got bitten today
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: and here I thought that it was 22:50 there in sydney
<StevenK> I haven't seen that in my chroots, either.
<Hobbsee> it is
<ajmitch> why do you say that I'm 3 hours ahead?
<Hobbsee> oh bugger, i cant count
<StevenK> Muahahaha
* StevenK watches the penny drop.
* Hobbsee thumps StevenK 
<StevenK> Ow!
* Hobbsee doesnt deal in pennies :P
* ajmitch laughs from a safe distance
* Hobbsee attacks ajmitch with her Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  to prove that there is *NO* safe distance
* StevenK reaches over the Pacific and high fives ajmitch
<ajmitch> heh
<elkbuntu> StevenK, any more violence like that, and i say you should withhold that blue square object from her ;)
* StevenK grins.
* ajmitch wonders what this mysterious object is
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, kubuntu edgy cd
<ajmitch> ah
* ajmitch grabbed a couple of them
<elkbuntu> ajmitch, yes, same. im all out now though.
<ajmitch> they're still in a bag here somewhere
<elkbuntu> i should have grabbed more
<ajmitch> oh well
<elkbuntu> well.. by 'all out', i have still one here for myself
<ajmitch> good
<ajmitch> collector's item
<elkbuntu> hehe
<ailean> Hobbsee, are you really only 18?
<Hobbsee> ailean: yep
<ailean> Hobbsee, i need to get some tips from you
<Hobbsee> ailean: what about?
<ailean> Hobbsee, you got involved with Ubuntu very quickly . . . :)
<Hobbsee> ailean: i'm not the youngest MOTU
<ailean> Hobbsee, who is?
<lastnode> heh
<lastnode> :-)
<ailean> you?
<Hobbsee> jpatrik, iirc
<lastnode> im not a MOTU, ailean 
<ailean> what age is he/she?
<lastnode> Hobbsee, how old?
<Hobbsee> 14?
<ailean> really?
<ailean> wow
<Hobbsee> i think so
<Hobbsee> he migth be 15 now
<ailean> so i have no excuses huh?
<lastnode> Fujitsu is 15 too, iirc
<Hobbsee> lastnode: oh yeah
<StevenK> Oh God.
* StevenK thought Fujitsu was older.
<ajmitch> StevenK: doesn't it make you feel old?
<StevenK> Yes. :-(
<elkbuntu> he might be 16 by now
* Hobbsee pushes StevenK back into his wheelchair, and pushes him back to the old people's home
<Hobbsee> he's in school.
* siretart feels with 26 years really old now
* StevenK whimpers and brandishes his walking stick
* ajmitch looks for his camera cable
* Hobbsee mutters about people being old and decrepit :P
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, he's of employable age, so he's late 15 or early 16
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: true
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: then again, the min age depends on the type of employment
<ailean> I'm 24 . . . I thought I was young
* ailean looks for painkillers and alcohol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<elkbuntu> ailean, you're younger than me, if that makes you feel better
* StevenK notes he was 20 when he became a Debian Developer.
<ailean> elkbuntu, a bit, thank you :)
<ajmitch> elkbuntu: only slightly
<lastnode> elkbuntu, Fujitsu mentioned he was 15.5 a few weeks back, so maybe not just yet
<ailean> nah, I'm more impressed with all the people doing great things at such a young age
<elkbuntu> lastnode, thanks for the clarification :)
<lastnode> np
<ailean> and I need to start doing my bit
* ajmitch hits the quarter-century mark next year
* StevenK hit it this year. :-/
<ailean> well, i'm closer to 25 than 24 . . . :$ seeing as we're admitting things
<jonh_wendell> any motu guy could see bug 33235? there is a patch there
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 33235 in firebird2 "Missing directory /var/run/firebird2" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33235
<ajmitch> seems like we have a few people here who are 24-26
* geser is 27 since 2 weeks
* jonh_wendell is 27 TODAY
* ailean feels a bit younger . . .
<pirast> hi, is there already a "universe-security" or "motu-security" team?
<jonh_wendell> StevenK, around?
<ajmitch> pirast: not a very active one, currently
<ajmitch> there's no launchpad team for it, but the security-review mailing list is used
<pirast> ajmitch, i know.. 
<ajmitch> does there need to be a lp team?
<pirast> what do you think? shall i found one? okay, i'm not that familar with packaging but pushing security patches to universe team
<ajmitch> you can if you wish
<pirast> the advantage would be that it can be subscribed to universe security bugs..
<pirast> ajmitch, k.. ill think of it :-)
<ajmitch> I don't know if the security contact field can be split down main/universe lines on malone
<pirast> ajmitch, yeah.. when pitti is back, ill speak to him
<ajmitch> back in an hour or so
<pirast> okay.. thanks
<ajmitch> he said he'd be away for ~2 hours :)
<pirast> lol :-P
<ajmitch> "parental tech support" :)
<ajmitch> oh well, I think I'm going to go & sleep now
<ajmitch> night all
<Hobbsee> night ajmitch!
<sivang> night ajmitch 
<\sh> wine 0.9.26 accepted :)
<xerxas> Hi all 
<Nafallo> hi xeros 
<Nafallo> hi xerxas even
<xerxas> Hi Nafallo  
<xerxas> even :) 
<Nafallo> :-)
<xerxas> is there a tool to help merges ? 
<xerxas> merge.ubuntu.com generates reports 
<Hobbsee> xer
<Hobbsee> xerxas: there's a script called grab-merge.sh on the mom.  use that
<xerxas> that mean that it does sth like dget current-version.dsc previous-version.dsc and ubuntu-current-version.dsc 
<xerxas> on the mom ? 
<Nafallo> anyone else running feisty that can confirm that latest update-grub removes the recovery menu entries?
<Hobbsee> merge o matic 
<xerxas> ok 
<Nafallo> xerxas: there are grab-merges.sh on merges.ubuntu.com
<xerxas> can we include grab-merge.sh in a package ? 
<xerxas> probably in devscripts or a new package called merge-o-matic or ubuntu-devscripts ? 
<Hobbsee> nah, just wget it
* Hobbsee has a dir named scripts/ for that purpose
<Hobbsee> xerxas: people use lots of different scripts - why would you?
<xerxas> also , I think that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging should refer to this script 
* Nafallo has ~/bin in his path ;-)
<Hobbsee> yes, it needs a rewrite
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: i use /usr/local/bin
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  why would I what ? 
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: I don't want to use sudo to add such scripts ;-)
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  I don't think it needs a rewrite 
* Nafallo doesn't like to leave his ~ :-)
<xerxas> I learnt a lot from here 
<Hobbsee> xerxas: why would you pack up a whole lot of scripts, seeing as different people use different ones
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: there's a point
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  because you can still choose not to use other's script 
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> devscripts has a lot of them
<giskard> hello *
<xerxas> yes but devscripts is a debian package, right ? 
<Nafallo> hi giskard :-)
<xerxas> Hi giskard  
<xerxas> How do I use grab-merge.sh appart for removing all files in the cwd ? 
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> for example, I think aircrack-ng is fairly simple to merge 
<xerxas> I want to get an eye on it 
<StevenK> aircrack-ng is mine, I say, mine!
<xerxas> I need to retrieve current and previous debian version , and ubuntu futur previous version 
<xerxas> StevenK, anyway, I need to learn 
<StevenK> xerxas: That's not the point, you should ask first.
<Hobbsee> xerxas: make a new directory
<xerxas> StevenK, I'm too slow to work 
<xerxas> so you can work on it 
<xerxas> I was planning to ask before pushing to revu 
<StevenK> I've already finished it. I'm waiting for the Herd freeze to lift.
<xerxas> Hobbsee,  and then ? 
<xerxas> Herd ? 
<Hobbsee> xerxas: and then run the grabmerge script inside it
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it's in universe, you can upload it.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I know, I want to wait.
<xerxas> you want to wait what ? 
<Hobbsee> even though universe isnt frozen?
<Hobbsee> why?
<Hobbsee> xerxas: no point doing the work, and then abandoning it.  i think you can take all of dholbach's merges
<xerxas> Hobbsee, he doesn't have time to merge ? 
<xerxas> Hobbsee, I want to learn and try before doing real things 
<xerxas> I don't want to tell dhollbach I'll do sth but won't do it 
<xerxas> and I don't want to spend time to choose what I should work on 
<xerxas> so I took the first package that I know and that has a short list of conflicts 
<xerxas> Hobbsee:
<xerxas> root@panther:/home/xerxas/contrib/grab-merge# time sh ../grab-merge
<xerxas> real    0m0.002s
<xerxas> user    0m0.000s
<xerxas> sys     0m0.000s
<xerxas> root@panther:/home/xerxas/contrib/grab-merge# ls
<xerxas> root@panther:/home/xerxas/contrib/grab-merge#
<xerxas> as root , I should probably work as xerxas, anyway, a dev system running feisty 
<Hobbsee> that's because you used the wrong syntax?
<Hobbsee> that too
<xerxas> what wrong syntax ? 
<Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~/devel/merges$ grab-merge.sh package
<Hobbsee> Sure you want to delete all the files in /home/sarah/devel/merges [yn] ? y
<Hobbsee> is the correct syntax
<xerxas> ok 
<xerxas> thx 
<Hobbsee> of course, if you dont want everythhhing to delete, you can modify the script
<xerxas> yep 
<xerxas> ok, I got the point 
<xerxas> grab-merge.sh shouldn't be in . 
<xerxas> cause it removes itself 
<xerxas> :)
<Nafallo> LOL
<Nafallo> ~/bin ffs :-)
<Hobbsee> ROFL!
<Hobbsee> yeah
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: You'll take a look at my package latter? Or are you too busy now? :)
<Hobbsee> it's far too late now
<Hobbsee> and i'm not in a nitpicky mood :P
<CypherBIOS> hahah, ok, np
<CypherBIOS> can someone take a look on my package? I 
<CypherBIOS> I want to work :)
<CypherBIOS> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581
<zul> hey
<Nafallo> hi zul :-)
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<ivoks> dholbach: hi
<dholbach> hey ivoks
<fabo> imbrandon: could you take a look at #73924
<fabo> or someone member of dapper-backports ... i've done a mistake when i reported it ...
<xerxas> Can someone help me making my first merge ?
<xerxas> I'm trying to merge gnome-backgrounds 
<xerxas> I use grab-merge.sh
<xerxas> I have 1 file that conflicts 
<xerxas> $ cat watch
<xerxas> version=2
<xerxas> <<<<<<< gnome-backgrounds-2.16.1-0ubuntu1 (ubuntu)
<xerxas> ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-backgrounds/2.14/ \
<xerxas> =======
<xerxas> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-backgrounds/([\d\.] +)/ \
<xerxas> >>>>>>> gnome-backgrounds-2.16.1-1 (debian)
<xerxas>         gnome-backgrounds-(.*)\.tar\.gz \
<xerxas>         debian uupdate
<xerxas> the debian changelog says: switch from ftp to http 
<xerxas> what does the file is supposed to look like ? 
<Seeker`> xerxas: You need to look in the changelogs to see if you can find out why the change was made, and if so, if it is still valid
<Seeker`> (i think, i only did my first merge yesterday)
<xerxas> Seeker`, I looked at the changelog 
<xerxas> but I don't understand the content of the "watch" file 
<Seeker`> for the ubuntu and debian versions?
<xerxas> it's a diff output ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: read the REPORT
<xerxas> Nafallo,  ok 
<xerxas> Nafallo, how does diff3 conflict markers works ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: trying to learn myself atm :-)
* Nafallo merges seahorse btw
<xerxas> :)
<xerxas> ok 
<geser> Seeker`: congratulations to your first sponsored upload
<Seeker`> geser: Thanks :D Couldn't have done it without you
<stgraber> If someone has some minutes, can he have a look at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3576, thx
<geser> Seeker`: the bug was set to "Fix Committed". Once you checked that the package built on all archs and reached the archive you can set it to "Fix Released"
<Seeker`> geser: Where do you check?
<geser> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/eterm -> Target: feisty -> View Builds -> and select "All states"
<geser> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/eterm/+builds?build_state=all
<geser> you will see it build on all archs
<Seeker`> and how do you know when it reaches the archive?
<rukuartic> Yo guys. Looking to build an Ubuntu Distro (mythTV based). Any things you could suggest I read? (Sorry if this is the wrong spot...)
<geser> http://packages.ubuntu.com/eterm
<Seeker`> so when 
<Seeker`> feisty (x11): Enlightened Terminal Emulator [universe] 
<Seeker`> 0.9.3-1ubuntu1: amd64 i386 powerpc
<Seeker`> changes to 0.9.4 it has reached the archives I can change it to released?
<geser> yes
<Seeker`> ok
<Seeker`> how long does it take?
<xerxas> Nafallo, I fixed the watch file I took the old one and I think I know how diff3 confilt markers works 
<chillywilly> great, squid is horribly broken in dapper
<xerxas> now, I cannot run dpkg-genchanges -S -v2.16.1-0ubuntu1
<chillywilly> at least for a transparent proxy
<chillywilly> why is there not a newer package?
<chillywilly> there's an upstream fix
<xerxas> $ LANG=C dpkg-genchanges -S -v2.16.1-0ubuntu1
<xerxas> dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory
<xerxas> dpkg-genchanges: error: syntax error in parsed version of changelog at line 0: empty file
<geser> Seeker`: usually a few hours but as currently the archive is frozen (for Herd 1) it can take some time (universe packages has to be accepted by hand)
<xerxas> but the file debian/changelog exists and is not empty 
<geser> xerxas: you need to be inside the package dir
<xerxas> doesn't work either I think so 
<xerxas> $ LANG=C dpkg-genchanges -S -v2.16.1-0ubuntu1
<xerxas> dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot open .dsc file ../gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-1ubuntu1.dsc: No such file or directory
<xerxas> $ ls -l ../*ubuntu*dsc
<xerxas> -rw-r--r-- 1 xerxas xerxas 1407 2006-10-02 18:05 ../gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<Seeker`> what exactly is Herd 1? I keep on hearing references to it, but i dont know what it is
<xerxas> howcome grab-merge.sh generates a -1ubuntu1 and I have a -0ubuntu1 ? 
<Nafallo> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -v2.16.1-0ubuntu1
<Nafallo> xerxas: ^
<xerxas> Nafallo,  this generates a dsc file ?
<geser> Seeker`: Herd 1 is the first beta release for feisty
<geser> more alpha release then beta
<Seeker`> ok
<xerxas>  Nafallo : should'nt the report mention this ? 
<rukuartic> DX Wrong spot to ask questions :P Sorry guys.
<Seeker`> what sort of time scale before it is unfrozen again?
<Nafallo> xerxas: it generates everything you need :-P
<xerxas> Nafallo,  then I don't need to run "dpkg-genchanges -S -v2.16.1-0ubuntu1" after running dpkg-buildpackage ... 
<xerxas> ?
<geser> Seeker`: once Herd 1 is released, should be today or tomorrow
<geser> xerxas: not until you are a MOTU
<xerxas> geser,  so I'm supposed to be ok now, I need to put the stuff in revu ? 
<xerxas> or try the package with pbuilder ? 
<Nafallo> xerxas: right
<Nafallo> xerxas: pbuilder
<geser> xerxas: revu is for new packages
<geser> xerxas: test build your merged package in a feisty pbuilder
<chillywilly> is it possible to downgrade and pin that package to the downgraded dist/version?
<Nafallo> downgrades are not supported
<Seeker`> geser: Cool. Thanks again for all the help
<xerxas> geser, Nafallo ,  the modifications are really small , anyway, trying to build, but what then ? 
<xerxas> How/Where do I submit my stuff for merging / inclusion ? 
<Nafallo> no idea. I will upload mine...
<geser> xerxas: file a bug against the source package on LP, attach the debdiff, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, wait
<geser> you get a debdiff by running: debdiff debian_version.dsc your_merged_version.dsc > debdiff
<xerxas> ubuntu-universe-sponsors , it's a team ? 
<geser> yes
<xerxas> kj
<xerxas> k
<xerxas> thanks 
<geser> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<xerxas> yes, wiating for moderation for my subscription ! 
<xerxas> anyway , I think I have a problem 
<Nafallo> moderation?
<Nafallo> you don't have to join the team to subscribe them?
<geser> you don't need to be a member of this team
<xerxas> k 
<xerxas> I didn't understood :) 
<xerxas> no I got it 
<xerxas> I should subscribe this team to the bug 
<xerxas> my problem: 
<xerxas> xerxas@panther:~/contrib/gnome-backgrounds/gnome-backgrounds-2.16.1-1ubuntu1$ ls ../*ubuntu*dsc
<xerxas> ../gnome-backgrounds_2.16.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<xerxas> xerxas@panther:~/contrib/gnome-backgrounds/gnome-backgrounds-2.16.1-1ubuntu1$ head -3 debian/changelog
<xerxas> gnome-backgrounds (2.16.1-1ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
<xerxas>   * Merge from debian unstable.
<geser> have you updated the changelog? added the remaining changes?
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> anyone wants to look at wave-look @ REVU?
<Nafallo> gaah
<Nafallo> FTBFS :-(
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Nafallo> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya Nafallo
<sivang> hi bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya sivang
<xerxas> geser,  didn't grab-merge.sh generated the changelog ?
<Nafallo> slomo: here? :-)
<xerxas> the changelog have a version that is more recent than the dsc file 
<xerxas> geser,  am I supposed to run debuild -S ? 
<xerxas> debuild -sa (for not signing the stuff, because I don't have the private mom's private key) 
<fernando> can somebody review the http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3551 ? thanks
<jonh_wendell> Hi ajmitch
<palski> what do you think is bug #73720 SRU material? Imho it is not very harmful to users
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73720 in gtetrinet "Crashes on first startup" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73720
<PriceChild> Is there anyone that could shed some light on Hobbsee's last question here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3582 ? Thanks for any help
<LaserJock> PriceChild: about what? pot files?
<PriceChild> yeah
<LaserJock> in KDE that have files for .pot generation I think
<PriceChild> ok so i'll need to learn about those and sort that out then I suppose :)
<PriceChild> I was soooo close.... she advocated it in that first comment but took it back :'(
<LaserJock> well, I'm not really sure you need to do anything
<fdoving> PriceChild: loooking at the diff i can't see that you included anything related to .pot files.
<PriceChild> I'd never heard of them before :$
<fdoving> if it's there it comes from the orig.tar.gz
<fdoving> and then it's ok.
* PriceChild looks
<PriceChild> no there isn't any pot files in tehre at all
<fdoving> from upstream? 
<fdoving> in po/
<PriceChild> argh wait yeah just seen it
<PriceChild> fdoving sorry i've just got to pop out for a bit
<PriceChild> thanks for helping
<PriceChild> hopefully you'll be free later
<PriceChild> sorry
<proppy> dholbach: just mailed gnome-games for poker2d integration \o/
<proppy> crimsun: here ?
<crimsun> proppy: hi.
<proppy> crimsun: i'm looking syncing a set of library from debian,
<proppy> crimsun: and from merges.ubuntu.com, it appear you already merged one of thoose :)
<proppy> crimsun: libpoker-eval and pypoker-eval
<proppy> crimsun: i'm looking forward merging all our library plus the 2d client and server
<proppy> crimsun: listed on http://pokersource.info/developers/index.php
<proppy> crimsun: (reading your motu-school session about merging)
<palski> crimsun: If you have time, I added more information to that SRU, is there enough information now (bug #73780)?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 73780 in kdbus "[SRU]  kdbus (edgy)" [Low,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73780
<proppy> crimsun: oups it's seems that they're already in sync with debian
<crimsun> proppy: poker-eval is synced, yes.
<crimsun> in a few minutes, I'll look at pypoker-eval and see whether its delta can be overwritten
<proppy> crimsun: looks poker-network and poker-engine too.
<crimsun> palski: will look in a few minutes
<palski> crimsun: thanks
<proppy> crimsun: thanks
<rexbron> What is the procidure for getting package that are already being compiled for Ubuntu and stored in a 3rd party repo into universe?
<LaserJock> rexbron: submit it to REVU
<LaserJock> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<rexbron> LaserJock: my only issue with that is that there are many packages sitting without any attention being paid to them
<rexbron> (one I uploaded included)
<enyc> meepmoop
<LaserJock> rexbron: the won't get uploaded any faster if they aren't on REVU. I agree that we are pretty behind on the list
<rexbron> ok
<LaserJock> you can do a little poking to see if somebody will review it
<rexbron> I subscribed to the REVU mailing list
<LaserJock> but we are pretty swamped so it can take some time
<rexbron> so thats a start
<rexbron> to be expected
<enyc> a Friend of mine is having the problem with edgy that the built-in vnc server ('desktop sharing') does not seem to _save_ the password correctly. -- i.e. if "require password" is selected and a password is saved in there, and the "ask for confirmation" is not selected -- the passwrd auth DOES work until the system is _restarted_ at whcih time it will NO LONGER work until the password is re-entered in the configuration for 'desktop sharing'
<enyc> o hangon i'm in the motu channel argh
<rexbron> If your interested in what I am looking to try and get into Universe, check out jahshaka.org
<rexbron> The packages are for dapper and breazy, but I tested them on edgy and they appeared to work fine
<rexbron> I am also looking at packaging, with a friend, cinelerra for Fiesty (as the previous 3rd party maintaner does not have the time)
<superm1> LaserJock, did you finish securing those boxes of yours from yesterday?
<LaserJock> superm1: yeah, I just need to convince the IT admin to unblock the mac address
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> i'd say just spoof it, but you probably won't be on his good side after that
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> interestingly though I can at least do web browsing with the wifi
<superm1> web browsing to just your internal campus web sites?
<LaserJock> no
<superm1> i know my school will ban to the extent that you can only get to internal school websites and the regular .edu for the school
<superm1> so you can still check your webmail for them and such if need be
<superm1> thats kinda odd then
<LaserJock> so ethernet is still banned, but wifi is ok for that computer
<zul> LaserJock: may i suggest firebombing as a way of convincing them
<zul> im a freaking pyromaniac
<superm1> yikes.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebombing
<LaserJock> zul: I asked my sysadmin if he would email them and he said "they never listen to me, you better contact the IT guy directly"
<LaserJock> :/
<zul> effective sysadmin
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> nice guy, loves Ubuntu
<LaserJock> but nobody seems to listen to him
<zul> well he does have one thing running for him then
<ajmitch> hi
<zul> like ajmitch
<ajmitch> :P
<ajmitch> I come in, I get abuse
<ajmitch> typical day
<zul> oh we like you alot...
<superm1> would any of you 3 have a moment for a revu?
<zul> not as much as you think though
<ajmitch> LaserJock: ready for your session?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> ajmitch: but I wasn't for the first one either
<crimsun> lies. Those MOTU deities and poppycock butterflies.
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> I tell ya, yesterday's activites made me feel quite mortal :/
<crimsun> you ain't here in the peanut gallery :-)
* ajmitch flings peanuts at the stage
<LaserJock> I'm in the peanut gallery, they just give me a megaphone so I can shout louder
<crimsun> ah, so you're mingling amongst the common folk, hehe
<ajmitch> lowering himself to our status
<ajmitch> how humbling :)
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> I'm just hoping seb goes 2 hrs again ;-)
<ajmitch> seb is always punctual
<ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, we could never do what you do :)
<LaserJock> whatever, that's just plain not true
<bhale> is this seb question hour again?
<LaserJock> yep
<bhale> wonder why
<LaserJock> because there are 2 of each session
<bhale> most of the questions ive seen are "can you include my bluesky fantasy?"
<bhale> or "ZOMG BERYL"
<bhale> oh well.
<zul> zounds
<bhale> told you so.
<ajmitch> sigh
<zul> its like killing kittens 
<LaserJock> nah, this is more fun
<ajmitch> you have experience with both then?
<LaserJock> no comment
<LaserJock> I grew up in the backwoods of Montana, we did all kinds of stuff like that
<LaserJock> although kittens are crossing the line
<LaserJock> but mountain lions (big kittens) sure
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock: nervous yet?
<LaserJock> oh, I don't know
<zul> how about now
<LaserJock> trying to collect data to make up time from yesterday
<ajmitch> not possible for the superstars to get nervous
<LaserJock> since yesterday was pretty much shot
* bhale claps as LaserJock takes the stage
<rmjb> hey ajmitch or LaserJock, I made the mistake earlier of doing a ping on #ubuntu-classroom-chat... I didn't know what I was doing... and Seveas banned me, but not I can't perticipate fully in the Ubuntu Open Week
<rmjb> can someone unban me? :(
<bhale> from?
<bhale> oh
<ajmitch> irssi isn't cooperating, so I can't
<jdong> rmjb: did imbrandon ever come back?
<bhale> i dont have channel access
<bhale> or I would
<rmjb> from #ubuntu-classroom-chat
* ajmitch has to head off for awhile
<ajmitch> good luck, LaserJock 
<rmjb> guess I'll just have to listen to LaserJock then...
<rmjb> jdong: I'm not sure if he did
<jdong> well , I take it he's "at work" now :)
* rmjb hopes this cgi irc will hold out for the session
<amnesia> re
<rmjb> shh... so am I
<jdong> ha
<jdong> now it's the day of weird ways of connecting to IRC....
* jdong on a GPRS/EDGE connection now
<jdong> lovely 3-5s lag
<bhale> rmjb: the ops have spoke, you are still out
<bhale> don't go nuts with CTCP in the future, I guess.
<jdong> rmjb: what did you do?
<rmjb> I did an ping on the room
<bhale> he did a CTCP PING on the whole channel
<bhale> it isnt really open for further discussion
<jdong> oh 
<jdong> :)
<jdong> no comment then :)
<rmjb> what's the ban period like? I claim ignorance of irc commands
<jdong> I'm on a low-bandwidth connection or else I'd answer this myself... are ubuntu wine packages nowadays just renames of winehq packaging?
<crimsun> ouch, 2.6.19 appears to have released with fairly nasty alsa regressions
<bhale> rmjb: this is not the place for appeals
<jdong> crimsun: really? but linus said.... :)
<bhale> #ubuntu-ops if you are so bold
<bhale> I already asked on your behalf
<bhale> and the answer was "no"
<bhale> I would recommend moving on
<rmjb> "Seveas requested CTCP VERSION from rmjb" what do I do to this? ping him back?
<bhale> he removed your ban
<bhale> please play nice
<amnesia> *sigh* I thought these kind of guys are only on ircnet
<jdong> and this is why we need an xchat-gnome-gnome that removes all the irc commands but /join /part and /me :D
<bhale> oh CGI:IRC
<bhale> good one
<jdong> bhale: his excuse was that he was at work :)
<bhale> did he say something to -ops?
<jdong> I wouldn't know.
<rmjb> guess cgi:irc isn't holding up
<jdong> ha
<rmjb> if it was said I missed it, what's the ban period like?
<jdong> rmjb: your ban has been removed
<rmjb> thankt you thank you
<rmjb> I wont try untested irc commands again!
<jdong> now stop clicking random buttons on your IRC client :)
<jdong> however fun that is
<jdong> instead, I suggest you try ettercap on your coworkers
<jdong> (j/k) :)
* superm1 reminisces about the results of his using ettercap on coworkers 
<jdong> superm1: those make for the best "those were the days.." stories 
<superm1> haha
<jdong> oh boy, like that one time at a hotel when I tried spoofing my MAC on their wired network....
<superm1> you really catch a lot of AIM conversations that really shouldnt be going on at work.  its really funny
<jdong> apparently someone else was doing the same, and 00:11:22:33:44:55 was a really popular choice...
<superm1> haha
<jdong> I still rest my case that cisco is to blame
<jdong> no "smart" switch should just fall to its knees with a single duplicate MAC
<superm1> no kidding
<superm1> jdong were you the one working on that package that tests wireless security of concourse AP's?
<jdong> superm1: yeah
<superm1> hows that coming along?
<jdong> superm1: I have it working to the best of my knowledge
<jdong> superm1: it works on two wayport AP's locally
<superm1> awesome
<jdong> superm1: https://launchpad.net/products/barnacle
<jdong> :)
<rmjb> jdong: what's a good way to check if I'm still connected to irc? that's why I tried that foolish ping earlier
<superm1> ping yourself perhaps on irc?
<jdong> rmjb: don't ping the entire channel?
<jdong> and I'd be a bad choice to ping, with a whopping 9.6Kbit connection to the internet :)
<superm1> rmjb, also if you use XChat, you get a nice little lag meter on the right
<superm1> jdong, i'll bookmark this and give it a shot next time I travel
<jdong> superm1: ha, have fun :)
<jdong> play nicely, and NEVER EVER TRY IT ON A WIRED NETWORK :D
<superm1> hehe
<superm1> i *always* play nicely
<jdong> rmjb: I guess you weren't connected :)
* rmjb has to get a better way to participate on Open Week while at work
<superm1> rmjb, can you ssh out from work?
<rmjb> nah firewalled up the wazoo!
<rmjb> get web access through proxy servers
<superm1> ouch that hurts
<superm1> socks proxy?
<superm1> or http only
<rmjb> ISA!
<superm1> ugh...
<rmjb> http only
<rmjb> I know because I'm in the network admin dep't ;p
<jdong> rmjb: ugh... does it operate on a ports whitelist or actual protocol detection?
<jdong> rmjb: I've been able to sneak out onto SSH servers operating on port 80/443
<jdong> on similar networks
<jdong> or tor.... though that's really really noisy and probably a great way to get fired
<rmjb> PC's dont' go out throught the firewall at all, they all go through proxy servers
<rmjb> so unless ssh can go through a proxy server...
<jdong> rmjb: putty :)
<superm1> well i have heard of ways to tunnel ssh over an http connection, but i never got it to work through ISA
<jdong> rmjb: putty can go out through a http or socks proxy
<bhale> putty will tunnel ssh over https proxy
<rmjb> really! will look into that
<jdong> it's worth a shot
<bhale> the trick is
<bhale> you need to run sshd on port 443
<bhale> because other ports will be blocked
<jdong> though a really anal proxy would realize that it's not http traffic and refuse
<bhale> no it wouldnt
<bhale> SSL occurs before HTTP
<jdong> hmm, I'll have to check out our Siemens VDO proxy again then
<jdong> it definitely did refuse SSH on 443 while accepting HTTPS at the same IP on 443
<rmjb> I could reconfigure the firewall for this week... but that would be frowned upon... I will look into putty through ISA though
<bhale> sounds like serious inspection going on
<bhale> ethereal can spot SSH setup
<jdong> interesting
<bhale> you dont normally expect that kind of packet inspection from a proxy, though
<superm1> this is the other app you can look into: http://www.nocrew.org/software/httptunnel.html
<superm1> with a nice howto here: http://sebsauvage.net/punching/
<jdong> bhale: IIRC Putty kept on returning 403's, but when I swapped sshd with apache on 443, the proxy let through the connection
<jdong> so then I was reduced to webmin's CGI shell
<jdong> which was less than fun
<jdong> crimsun: what kind of regressions are in 2.6.19
<jdong> I was considering using it on one of my boxes
<rmjb> there seems like a lot of promise here... I should have mentioned this to you guys before... cgi:irc is a pain
<fernando> somebody with free time to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3591 ? =) thanks
<amnesia> I am creating a debian/rules for my new (and simple) package
<amnesia> is there anything smaller/easier than the one on http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html
<amnesia> it really doesn't need anything special just a ./configure, I hoped a more simple rules would suffice for start
<LaserJock> amnesia: maybe check the debhelper section
<amnesia> k thanks
<LaserJock> amnesia: it does get easier then that one ;-)
<amnesia> hehe
<amnesia> eh, I thought dh_ is for danielHolbach, not for debHelper :)
<LaserJock> some say it is ;-)
<snoogie_> Hello
<bhale> ah
<proppy> oh
<proppy> so
<bhale> < bhale> why do they need a different version
<bhale> < bhale> of the same depend
<proppy> let's take a concret exemple
<bhale> please
<proppy> package name issue : with python2.3 vs 2.4
<proppy> and version issue with debhelper
<bhale> I clearly said name
<bhale> and you said version
<vil> dholbach: ping
<bhale> but I understand (again)
<proppy> there is both sorry
<dholbach> vil: pong
<amnesia> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libgtk2.0-dev
<bhale> unstable and feisty both have python2.4
<amnesia> is this the good way to add a dependency?
<bhale> amnesia: that is a Depends:
<bhale> runtime
<bhale> you would almost never need -dev there
<vil> dholbach: I watch the fridge events, but so far there is no board meeting
<vil> dholbach: however, today is a ubuntu dev meeting
<amnesia> bhale: ah sorry, I mean build-depends of course, lemme check
<bhale> amnesia: yes that is where you meant to put it.
<vil> dholbach: I wonder if did get renamed
<dholbach> vil: hum, I'm sorry - I don't know anything about it - maybe you drop a mail to ubuntu-devel@ about it?
<dholbach> or hang on
<amnesia> bhale: comma separated?
<dholbach> the techboard has a mailing list itself
<bhale> amnesia: yes.
<amnesia> k
<snoogie_> Is there a french speaker here ?
<proppy> bhale: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/unittest++-0611301030/linda
<proppy> bhale: for exemple
<dholbach> vil: technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com
<vil> hang on does not sound bad
<bhale> proppy: yawn
<vil> I will check that
<proppy> bhale: if i correct this warning by changing the minimum version of debhelper
<proppy> bhale: it won't build anymore on sarge
<proppy> bhale: with the same control file
<bhale> I think you are really making too much work of this
<bhale> fix the build system to take more than one source package
<bhale> ours uses the hint in changelog
<bhale> feisty, dapper, unstable, etc
<snoogie_> I am new here, I am a C++ coder and I want to help, someone can tell me how ? which doc I need to read or what I can do ?
<proppy> ok, thanks
<snoogie_> Sorry for my broken english :D
<proppy> don't want to bother you more with that :)
<bhale> no problem, but it is rather a hack to solve it in one debian dir
<proppy> i find it handy to have only one source package to submit to the build system
<proppy> and then watch it build for all debian based distribution
<bhale> that has never been how the "real" debian/ubuntu build systems work
<bhale> so the packaging systems dont account for it
<bhale> the packager does.
<proppy> :)
<proppy> very wise thoughts
<proppy> becoming or working closer with a motu can help to submit directly to universe
<proppy> instead of waiting for the sync ?
<snoogie_> hello
<snoogie_> Can you see me now ?
<LaserJock> !packagingguide > snoogie_ 
<LaserJock> snoogie_: yes we can
<amnesia> when creating a gpg key to sign a package, should it be default, rsa or dsa
<snoogie_> Thanks for url :)
<amnesia> "DSA and Elgamal" is default
<snoogie_> I have many read to do before asking some questions :D
<proppy> bhale: thanks for your help :)
<snoogie_> Sorry for my broken english
<bhale> proppy: cheers.
<LaserJock> snoogie_: no problem
<geser> amnesia: if you have no specific reason to change stay with the default (DSA + ElGamal)
<amnesia> ok did so
<snoogie_> any french user here ?
<LaserJock> snoogie_: there are some french speaking people around, but I think probably some of them are away right now
<snoogie_> Ok thanks 
<stgraber> snoogie_: je parle franais, mais aprs il faut voir si je peux t'aider, n'tant pas MOTU moi-mme :)
<snoogie_> Did the ubuntu packager guide is available as PDF ?
<proppy> snoogie_: pareil :)
<stgraber> :)
<stgraber> snoogie_: It should be, have a look at doc.u.c
<snoogie_> stgraber, ok en fait je vais lire toute la doc, je developpe en C++ et aimerai aider mais je cherche comment commencer :D
<jdong> god fscking who's stupid idea was it to distribute bittorrent clients via bittorrent?!?
<LaserJock> snoogie_: yes it is
<stgraber> well more help.u.c
<LaserJock> jdong: hahaha
<stgraber> snoogie_: si tu sais coder, c'est plutt du cter d'un soft integr  Ubuntu ou en faisant du dbug et correction de bug
<stgraber> snoogie_: la cration de paquetage ne ncessite pas de connaissance en programmation sauf s'il faut adapter le code pour qu'il passe sur d'autre architecture
<snoogie_> Et MOTU c juste packager les softs 
<snoogie_> ah ok :D
<jdong> ~/bin/madison-sync
<jdong> grr
<snoogie_> je croyais que les MOTU codais aussi 
<snoogie_> codaient
<jdong> you're not rxvt
<snoogie_> arf
<stgraber> snoogie_: au niveau des outils d'administration d'Ubuntu, le python est prioritaire, C++ est surtout utilis par KDE
<stgraber> et certains utilitaires Gnome
<snoogie_> en lisant le guide je commencais a comprendre en plus lol 
<stgraber> MOTU = Master of the Universe, ce sont ceux choisissant les paquets entrant dans Universe et les packagant (entre autre)
<amnesia> gpg: secret key not available
<amnesia> I did something wrong :)
<stgraber> donc les notions de programmation aident mais sont pas ncessaire
<snoogie_> le python ... j'arrive pas a mi faire et puis comme je code 8h par jour au C++ depuis 8 mois et que j'ai toujours pas saisi toutes les subtilitees de ce langage :D
<snoogie_> lol
<snoogie_> Bon ok
<stgraber> J'ai appris les baess du python en 1 semaine :), a dpend du language que tu as fait avant
<geser> amnesia: when did you get this error?
<amnesia> debuild -S
<stgraber> pour python du moment que tu es habitu  l'orient objet, tu l'apprends sans trops de soucis, juste la syntaxe qui est un peu trange au dbut :)
<amnesia> geser:  debuild -S
<snoogie_> j'ai fais un peu de perl 
<snoogie_> mais cet esprit de non-compilation ... :D
<stgraber> moi aussi, c'est un language que j'aime bien
<snoogie_> c abus des fois :D
<stgraber> python est gallement non-compil bien que compilable
<geser> amnesia: does your uid on that key match with the your name+email address in changelog?
<amnesia> might not, letme see
<snoogie_> les fichiers .pyc c ca?
<amnesia> geser: you're right thanks
<stgraber> donc en gros si tu veux coder et utiliser tes notions de C++, je te recommande de regarder les rapports de bugs sur launchpad et si tu en trouves un intressant et dont le logiciel d'intrese, te recuprer les sources, essayer de trouver le bug, ...
<stgraber> oui
<amnesia> geser: not sure who I am :)
<amnesia> oops. I made a debian package
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> that's a quote to remember
<snoogie_> ok mais en gnl comment etre sur que je suis le seul a bosser dessus ou que qqun d'autre va pas sortir une correction avant moi ?
<amnesia> LaserJock: yeah I mean I was sitting on the bus today thinking about that I should try it. and now look what happened
<snoogie_> et comment remonter la correction ?
<snoogie_> fichier .diff ?
<stgraber> Launchpad rfrence les bugs rapports par les utilisateurs d'Ubuntu, ensuite les projets ont en gnral leur propre site web avec un outil de rapport de bug
<stgraber> donc un moyen est de regarder si le bug est aussi rapport chez eux
<stgraber> et voir si un patch a t envoy
<amnesia> ok will upload it to revu and see what the -devel ML says about my proposal
<amnesia> see you on the other side
<stgraber> si c'est pas le cas tu peux en faire un
<stgraber> et attacher le .patch au bug
<stgraber> soit sur Launchpad soit sur leur systme de rapport de bug
<stgraber> si c'est sur Launchpad quelqu'un le fera remont chez eux normallement
<snoogie_> ok derniere question (enfin j'espere) tu as l'adresse du launchpad de bugs ? J'ai trouve ca : https://launchpad.net/ mais ca a pas l'air bon
<snoogie_> ok https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
<snoogie_> lol
<snoogie_> je suis une burne c'etait ecrit en gros
<snoogie_> bon ba merci je v aller lire tout ca
<snoogie_> merci encore
<stgraber> sorry for the french flood on the channel :)
<ajmitch> stgraber: it's ok, I understood most of it :)
* LaserJock gets out his french dictionary
<CypherBIOS> LaserJock: I'm new here. I'd like to know who are the peoples that review the packages on REVU, can you tell me?
<ajmitch> any MOTU with time
<LaserJock> that would be the MOTU
<LaserJock> who are the ubuntu-dev team on Launchpad
<CypherBIOS> oh, right... tnx :)
<ajmitch> eg LaserJock is a MOTU, who sometimes has time for reviewing when he's not on the international speaking circuit
<LaserJock> haha
<CypherBIOS> haaahhha
<CypherBIOS> LaserJock: too busy now?!
<LaserJock> yes, unfortunatly
<LaserJock> must get data for a group meeting tomorrow
<CypherBIOS> oh, ok. np
<CypherBIOS> ajmitch: are you on an "international speaking circuit"? Or you can spent some time to review an package? :P
<ajmitch> no, I'm not important enough to be a speaker
<ajmitch> however I am trying to write up some PHP code at work :)
<CypherBIOS> eheheh
<bluefoxicy> xnest
<bluefoxicy> "Use of Zephyr is recommended instead"
<bluefoxicy> Category:  Main.
<bluefoxicy> xserver-xephyr.  Category:  Universe
<ajmitch> submit a patch, file a bug, whateveer
<ajmitch> you've used launchpad
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  I see you don't share in my amusement at having an officially supported package recommend use of a non-supported package instead ;)
<ajmitch> no, I don't 
<bluefoxicy> but yes I'll get right on that.
<bluefoxicy> I suspect the first response is, "Who's going to maintain it?  You?" (unless it has a dedicated maintainer already)
<theCore> does Herd 1 has been released?
<theCore> there seems to be a daily build, but I am not sure if it's Herd 1 
<theCore> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20061130.2/
<_MMA_> theCore: I installed it earlier. It was Edgy.
<_MMA_> theCore: Oh wait. Your link is .2 :)
* _MMA_ looks at page.
<theCore> I want the daily alternate
<theCore> I don't want to download the live cd to save some bandwidth
<theCore> so, I use jigdo
<_MMA_> Yea... Looks like Desktop only for now.
<theCore> there's a daily of the alternate CD, but it seems named Edgy ...  
<_MMA_> Yea. THATS the one I got earlier. :(
<_MMA_> Guess their still building.
<theCore> I think I will wait then
* _MMA_ wants to test the -lowlatency kernel but segfaults every time he goes from Edgy to Feisty.
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-01
<amnesia> re
<amnesia> pbuilder doesn't want to build my package, probably because it has - in the name
<amnesia> is that normal? -dev packages have - too
<Lathiat> - is fine, whats the error?
<amnesia> I have an output of ~15 lines from it, where should I paste it
<amnesia> dpkg-deb: building package `ircp-tray' in `../ircp-tray_0.6.1-1_i386.deb'.
<amnesia> tar: -: file name read contains nul character
<amnesia> these should suffice too..
<Lathiat> hrm not sure sorry
<amnesia> the .deb is not created, but everything else seems to be okay
<geser> amnesia: I've seen the warning from tar also sometimes but it did build
<geser> it must be something else
<amnesia> geser: okay, but no errors afterwards
<geser> have you looked in /var/cache/pbuilder/results/ for the debs?
* Lathiat always sets BUILDRESULT to $PWD
<Lathiat> annoys me hunting for deb sin /results/
<amnesia> geser is right
<amnesia> but why did it tell me to look in ../
<Lathiat> that path is not relative to where you starrt
<amnesia> grrrr
<geser> it's from inside the chroot
<amnesia> or as the french say. aarrrrggh
<geser> they get copied to results before the chroot is destroyed
<amnesia> (from a king of queens episode)
<amnesia> so it actually realy built, thanks
<amnesia> now to upload to REVU, and have somebody doublecheck it...
<amnesia> do I really need to do only: dput -P ircp-tray_0.6.1-1_source.changes
<geser> make sure you upload to revu and not the archive :)
<amnesia> I don't think I can do that
<amnesia> first timer here
<amnesia> ok I ctrl-c'ed the last upload and it doesn't like me now... :)
<geser> as I didn't upload to revu myself yet, I can't help you
<amnesia> ok, thanks anyway
<Adri2000> amnesia: what is the problem?
<rmjb> check your /etc/dput.cf file, make sure [revu]  is the default
<amnesia> Uploading via ftp ircp-tray_0.6.1-1.dsc: Error '553 Could not create file
<amnesia> rmjb: it is thanks
<Adri2000> hmm
<amnesia> Adri2000: it suggests to use dcut
<amnesia> trying..
<Adri2000> I don't know what dcut is
<Adri2000> but you can try dput -f
<amnesia> same
<rmjb> umm... you've added your key to the revu uploaders?
<amnesia> Note: This problem might be caused by files already existent on the server.
<amnesia> For the official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be used to remove stale files from unsuccessful uploads.
<amnesia> that doesn't help either...ok, Google
<amnesia> LaserJock: what happens when I cancelled an upload an getting the above messages
<amnesia> I should be able to overwrite it somehow I guess
<amnesia> shit it's getting late, bye
<VoX> guess he forgot about the time
<TRiBiX> hi!
<crimsun> ...and "Uninterupted [sic]  Ubuntu-holic Joy Time" is why he's part of the MOTU trinity
<TRiBiX> i've change the shortcut keys and now the down key doesn't work
<TRiBiX> any solution?
<crimsun> TRiBiX: I'm sorry, to what packaging does that issue pertain?
<LaserJock> sorry about the spelling
<ajmitch> we can forgive you, LaserJock 
<LaserJock> I'd feel much more like a PhD candidate if I could spell properly
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> it's kinda hard to sound all impressive with such horrible spelling and grammar
<ajmitch> don't worry, the weight of your words resounds throughout IRC & beyond
<LaserJock> hahaha
<LaserJock> what a joke
<LaserJock> I do what I can, and probably more then I should
<TRiBiX> crimsun ubuntu6.06
<LaserJock> there are imminently more qualified people to do most of the things I do
<ajmitch> not I
<LaserJock> but somebodie's got to do the real work
<crimsun> TRiBiX: I mean what specific portion of the packaging for that app?
<Simon80> hey, anyone know how to get ld to find a library... say,  -llua50, if it's missing a .so symlink?
<ajmitch> Simon80: the -dev package should provide it
<TRiBiX> uf, I'm a beginner in linux, and I'm Spanish
<Simon80> so then this is a bug?
<TRiBiX> crimsun I don't understand you so well
<Simon80> gonna double check, but I couldn't find a lua-dev package
<ajmitch> Simon80: if it doesn't, then yes
<ajmitch> liblua50-dev
<Simon80> sweet
<Simon80> laha, missed that, thanks
<Simon80> saves me time
<ajmitch> /usr/lib/liblua50.so
<ajmitch> it's there
<crimsun> TRiBiX: are a asking a packaging infrastructure question or a support question? If the latter, please use #ubuntu-es.
<Simon80> yeah, I didn't know there was a -dev
<crimsun> TRiBiX: are you asking, rather
<Simon80> was looking for lua-dev
<ajmitch> it should normally be SONAME-dev
<ajmitch> like liblu50-dev
<ajmitch> or often liblua-dev
<TRiBiX> crimsun I changed shortcut key combination using a menu in the taskbar
<Simon80> yeah, I think it's cause there's a lua package that I figured to look for lua-dev
<crimsun> TRiBiX: ok, please use #ubuntu-es.
<TRiBiX> crimsun ok, thanks much better xD
<proppy> hoy !
* proppy hugs bhale
<LaserJock> argg, I just realized I was running Dapper
* LaserJock head-desks
<ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
<ajmitch> why is that a problem?
<LaserJock> I thought I was on Edgy
<LaserJock> it was feisty just yesterday :/
<ajmitch> nice regressions
<ajmitch> soon you'll be running warty
<LaserJock> I know
<LaserJock> I've never run warty
<LaserJock> I should try it some time. are the .isos still around?
<rmjb> LaserJock: i take it your got your hacked boxes back up then... even if it's a back in times box
<ajmitch> probably on old-releases.u.c
<LaserJock> well, it's a fresh install of whatever disk I had around
<LaserJock> which happens to be Dapper
<LaserJock> apparently
<rmjb> shippit huh?
<ajmitch> edgy cds are rare
<ajmitch> I think they're at the bottom of my suitcase
<rmjb> I've got one right here... says Pengo on the label :P
<LaserJock> yeah, I didn't hang out long enough to grab one at Mt. View
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<LaserJock> yeah, I was looking forward to it
<havoc> hey
<havoc> chillywilly is on the phone asking me to ask you guys:  is there a kernel header package on the install CD?
<havoc> I'm gonna guess not
<ajmitch> no idea, maybe you could check
<havoc> ajmitch: heh, you're the guy he said to ask, but I'm guessing not based on:  ftp://mirror.d-jacobs.com/ubuntu/edgy/ubuntu-6.10-desktop-i386.list
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> I'm not at my box right now, I can't check
<theCore> LaserJock, http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/
<havoc> how big is Edgy?
<havoc> like a full mirror?
<havoc> chillywilly is asking
<theCore> havoc, just the main component is around 1.7GB
<havoc> ah, that's not bad
<theCore> havoc, universe is probably 5-10 times bigger
<havoc> ok, chillywilly's gonna bring a box over, I need to mirror universe for him, where can I rsync it?
<havoc> I can suck down ~20GB in no time
<havoc> ok, he's changing his mind again
<theCore> havoc, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
<havoc> theCore: thanx :)
<havoc> chillywilly messed up his server, badly :(
<ajmitch> poor chap
<havoc> yeah, gonna be a long night
<havoc> ...fir him
<havoc> for him
<havoc> he's got a dapper mirror on DVD so I need to get and burn a dapper ISO for him
<Simon80> a mirror of universe, why didn' I think of that?
<havoc> the issue is this server has the sangoma T1 card in it
<havoc> and he has to build a wacked driver from source
<havoc> and apparently it's been problematic in the past
<Simon80> fun
<havoc> and the machine is like an 80lb. Penguin Computing 3U machine, so it's not easily moved, or he'd just bring it here
<havoc> dapper is 6.06?
<Simon80> yeah
<havoc> ok
<Simon80> sheesh, stupid animal names
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> my fave is when people say something like I'm using Dapper 6.06 LTS instead of Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, or Ubuntu 6.06 "Dapper Drake" LTS
<Simon80> I like pbuilder, by the way, it's one thing gentoo doesn't have with ebuilds
<Simon80> for dep checking
<Simon80> I just generally love heavily automated things like that, and make distcheck that automake outputs
<Simon80> automation is hot
<Simon80> ...getting a bit off topic though
<havoc> heh
<havoc> I juest upgraded to 6.10 yesterday, I've been slackin
<havoc> just
<Simon80> meh, 6.10 is good and bad
<Simon80> I don't like it when I can't install it cause of a "No root partition selected" bug
<Simon80> nor do I like nautilus spinning my cpu time
<havoc> I don't like FF2
<Simon80> I do :)
<havoc> but I'll learn to deal
<Simon80> may be slow though, cpu wise, I'm not sure
<havoc> I can't wait for the first Mozilla release of the flash plugin
<havoc> maybe it won't suck
<havoc> (now that Adobe gave them access to the source)
<Simon80> umm... Adobe did no such thing, unless I missed big news
<havoc> they did
<havoc> a partial release anyway, not full source
<Simon80> the source share you're probably thinking of involves a javascript interpreter
<Simon80> NOT flash
<havoc> for the purposes of producing a more stable flash plugin
<havoc> ah, I thought it was for flash
<Simon80> I did too, for a minute
<havoc> guess not
<Simon80> but I pay attention to news like that
<havoc> I don't, so I'll take your word for it :)
<havoc> I hate computers ;)
<elkbuntu> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/ <--havoc, read second post
<Simon80> so I read it through, and after a while, I figured out that it wasn't flash... to be fair, it was kind of unclear
<havoc> yay, they gave mozilla access to JS, woopty-fucking-do
<Simon80> lol, I love it how he bluntly says, NO, they didn't open source flash, they didn't buy out mozilla, they didn't pledge to put Mitchell Baker on the Moon
<Simon80> cd ffmpeg-0.4.9-pre1 && mkdir -p _inst/lib && ./configure --prefix=`pwd`/_inst && make installlib
<Simon80> /bin/sh: ./configure: Permission denied
<Simon80> ignore the dirtiness, all I'm asking is why permission is denied in pbuilder here, but not if I do a straight debuild
<jdong> Simon80: is configure executable?
<jdong> in the tarball
<Simon80> oh, in the tarball? probably
<Simon80> I really would know if it wasn't, I think
<Simon80> good point, but I'm doubting it
<Simon80> nevertheless, that may be a workaround
<Simon80> screw it, I'll just add sh in front, see if that works around it
<jdong> hehe :)
<Simon80> I JUST WANT MY DAMN PACKAGE! lol
<LaserJock> phew, just got done with the first meeting with my boss since "the break in"
<Simon80> physical or network?
<LaserJock> network
<Simon80> ow
<LaserJock> anyway, hopefully tomorrow the uni will unban my nic
<Simon80> you're employed there?
<LaserJock> grad student
<Simon80> what happened, anyhow?
<LaserJock> I forgot about a stupid test user I made
<LaserJock> and normally I don't allow connections from outside the department
<LaserJock> anyway
<jdong> I used to question the feasibility of brute-forcing SSH accounts too :)
<Simon80> yeah?
<Simon80> indeed, that's kind of shitty, brute-forcing the acct AND pass
<jdong> until my auth.log one day grew to 60MB before rotation :)
<LaserJock> it's just sad because my boss is one of the bigges proponents of of *nix on campus
<jdong> from then on, I put on fail2ban with every sshd I deploy...
<LaserJock> and fits the IT guys all the time saying it's more secure
<LaserJock> then *I* got and doe something stupid
<LaserJock> s/doe/do/
<Simon80> lol, yeah, I'd hate that, i'm a big linux proponent
<jdong> LaserJock: do they honestly think their windows is any more secure?
<LaserJock> yep
<jdong> heh
<LaserJock> cause they can install all kinda of crap on it to "protect" them
<jdong> I remember at my high school a few months ago
<jdong> we busted a kid with SYSTEM-account access
<jdong> the most amusing part is how he did it....
<jdong> priviledge escalation in symantec client security :)
<Simon80> I hate windows so much, so dirty
<jdong> the irony...
<Simon80> the culture is dirty, the fs hierarchy is dirty
<Simon80> basically the culture
<jdong> the worst part is everything you try to do to 'secure' windows backfires :)
<LaserJock> well, my boss was nice about it anyway and just said not to let it ever happen again
<Simon80> it's like a bazaar, without the collaboration, people just do shit, it's this mishmash of crap all pasted onto an OS that is already a mishmash of crap
<Simon80> so um, what was the acct:pass?
<LaserJock> well, they weren't the same, but similar enough
<LaserJock> that after attacking the snot out of my computer they got in
<LaserJock> an auth log is really something to see
<Simon80> yeah
<Simon80> shit, my auth.log has fails in it
<Simon80> what was that fail2ban?
<LaserJock> we have an iMac here that I found 1 IP attacking sinc the 15th
<jdong> Simon80: it looks through auth.log, anyone with >= X failed logins gets an iptables ban :)
<Simon80> nice
<jdong> yeah, currently on my home router, there's around 50 IP's blacklisted
<Simon80> I don't even know how to do that myself
<crimsun> jdong: addressing your earlier question: 2.6.19's emu10k1 has quite a few capture problems (in addition to the slew of hda-intel ones)
<jdong> (and those bans lift every 10 minutes)
<jdong> crimsun: I see, good to know
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> holy fuck, 50 IPs in 10 mins?
<jdong> yeah
<Simon80> that's a lot of brute forcing
<jdong> there's days that my connection simply gets flooded with SSH login attempts
<jdong> my 5mbit downstream completely saturated
<Simon80> that's not cool
<jdong> not at all
<Lathiat> really?
<jdong> yeah
<Lathiat> i've never seen it that bad
<jdong> it's terrible
<Simon80> you should start using some doorman style obfuscation
<Lathiat> i get attempts all the time
<Lathiat> but its nothing horrid
<Simon80> so they don't know you're using ssh
<Lathiat> certainly wouldnt use more than about 50-100kbit/s
<jdong> Lathiat: sure the usual attempt here and there, but some bad days....
<Lathiat> i was on dialup.. with a /24 routed down it... that didn't work so well
<crimsun> terrible is 1000 Mb/s of DDoS at your machine.
<Lathiat> ate the entire link with just noise
<Lathiat> ;p
<jdong> I've even got a daemon that looks for incoming service abuse and goes out for a new DHCP IP if it gets bad :)
<Lathiat> heh
<jdong> though it's kinda irritating when a LAN system is in the middle of a download :D
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> would be
<Lathiat> why dont you just firewall them? ;p
<Lathiat> i find this usefull:
<jdong> lol
<jdong> idn if it's just my ISP, but the network I'm on is hostile
<Lathiat> $IPT -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --set --name SSH
<Lathiat> $IPT -A INPUT -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --update --seconds 60 --hitcount 10 --rttl --name SSH -j DROP
<Simon80> you can't save the bandwidth by firewalling, dude
<Lathiat> Simon80: yer but its no worse than them hitting an ip thats not in use...
<jdong> I once installed snort on my gateway for kicks
<jdong> but had to disable it because it filled up /var too fast :)
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> windows boxes... plug a unpatched SP1 directly to the cable modem, it'll BSOD in less than 15 seconds
<jdong> and boot up with a few hundred extra desktop icons :)
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I find that horrible
<jdong> yeah, it is awful
<Simon80> 15 secs though? you sure? lol
<Simon80> average, I mean
<jdong> 15 secs tops
<Simon80> is it that low now?
<Simon80> that's insane
<Simon80> that's funny
<jdong> I've forgotten to unplug the cable a few times when reformatting my XP boxes
<Simon80> you could have a race, lol
<jdong> the setup can't even finish before it's attacked
<Simon80> what? the setup? you mean like the post reboot stuff, right?
<Simon80> like, not off the install CD
<jdong> Simon80: no, off the install CD
<jdong> Simon80: setup goes out for a DHCP when it detecs the NIC
<jdong> around 10 minutes before install usually finishes and goes for the final reboot
<Simon80> lol, the installer has enough windows on it to get owned then?
<jdong> yep
<Simon80> hahaha
<Simon80> can't say ubuntu's any better, but at least you get something that is as good, not just as insecure
<jdong> the most interesting thing you can do is install a good windows IDS like BlackICE and connect the system to the public network
<Simon80> for the logs?
<jdong> you get so many interesting signature hits
<jdong> I still renew my blackice licenses for that alone :)
<LaserJock> geeze, I'm never going to use a network again ;/
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> :)
<LaserJock> my gosh, I'm upgrading to edgy at ~ 1.2 M/s
<LaserJock> normally it's like 30k
<Simon80> that's nice, I guess
<Simon80> you sure you're not pulling from the CD?
<Simon80> :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I don't have an edgy cd right now
<jdong> whee :)
<LaserJock> I should burn one I suppose
<jdong> I only get that from my apt-cacher :)
<Simon80> I tried to share the DVD over NFS to my little sister's machine but it wasn't very reliable
<Simon80> would stop working every once in a while, interfering with the update
<jdong> and through all the backporting I've been doing I wouldn't be surprised if my apt-cacher is nearly a complete mirror :D
<LaserJock> heh
<jdong>  Requests 	19240 (70.63%)
<jdong> cache hit rate :)
<jdong> 60% for actual packages
<Simon80> apt-cacher?
<Simon80> as in a caching proxy repository
<Simon80> ?
<jdong> Simon80: correct
<jdong> Simon80: as in I'd specify deb http://gateway/apt-cacher/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu edgy ......
<Simon80> is there software for that or is it a custom job?
<jdong> Simon80: it's in APT
<jdong> apt-cacher
<Simon80> ahhh
<Simon80> cool
<jdong> it can either register as CGI with apache
<jdong> or run on its own port 
<jdong> it's really really handy if you have multiple ubuntu boxes on a LAN
<jdong> for backports I have to keep my feisty deb-src pretty fresh and apt-cacher helps prevent me from hammering archive.u.c too much :)
<jdong> jdong@jdong-laptop:~/src/ktorrent$ ssh server du -sh /var/cache/apt-cacher
<jdong> 1.9G    /var/cache/apt-cacher
<jdong> actually, the cache is a lot smaller than I expected
<LaserJock> oh geeze, Ubuntu Christmas Edition
<LaserJock> 3.2GB DVD based off of Feisty
<LaserJock> what a present :/
<jdong> LaserJock: so they included emacs?
* jdong ducks and hides
<LaserJock> jdong: not even emacs is that big
<LaserJock> well, maybe will all the standard goodies included ;-)
<jdong> :)
<jdong> but I'd actually like a comprehensive ubuntu dvd at times :)
<VoX> 3.2gb?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: automatix, lots of illegal codec, etc
<VoX> damn
<jdong> ajmitch: linux mint is actually a bit handy :D
<LaserJock> ajmitch: automatix bleeder, even arnie said not to use it :-)
<ajmitch> various other things that are illegal to distribute
<jdong> I want my dang wmv's ;-)
<jdong> "DHT: Got -4294967295 potential peers for torrent ...."
<jdong> hmm, gee....
<jdong> guess the database is taking back some of the peers it gave me over the past year....
<VoX> heh
* jdong opens up source code for a look-see
<jdong> now, 10 bucks says I won't be able to reproduce this again :)
<jdong> aha! stupid LAN peer finder
* jdong pokes upstream
<jdong> wait no... unofficial plugin...
<LaserJock> heh, this guy said he was finished building a GUI when he got his glade file done :-)
<LaserJock> this is so much fun
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> ok, swapfiles over smbfs are obviously not smart.....
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> networked swap in general is probably not a great idea, I  would imagine
<jdong> you know curiousity just begs you to try it :D
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I had an NFS home directory at the job before my current
<Simon80> 1TB of free space on it too
<Simon80> not that I used anything more than small amounts of space
<LaserJock> jdong: heh, I'm glad somebody tests these things
<LaserJock> and I'm glad it's not me
<jdong> lol
<LaserJock> ajmitch: you ever use equivs?
<ajmitch> nope
<LaserJock> hmm, this sounds so promising: "NOTE: this should be considered a crude hack to work around awkward situations, not a normal solution."
<ajmitch> it is a hack
<LaserJock> apparently it's a hacky way of creating meta packages
<ajmitch> you're basically saying that the package is installed, without the benefits of dpkg tracking the package contents
<LaserJock> yeah, I got that part, I just wondered if it spit out a decent beginner's metapackage
<ajmitch> I think it spits out a binary package with Provides:
<Simon80> anyone here using ccache with pbuilder?
<Simon80> I just got that working... so I feel like spreading the word, because everyone should use ccache, it's that good
<ajmitch> Simon80: sure, have been for months
<Simon80> good stuff
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure if it would be much help for me
<Simon80> it's awesome nonetheless
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I used to use ccache with Gentoo
<Simon80> yeah, me too
<Simon80> once I started packaging
<ajmitch> it's helpful for recompiling packages, like when you make a fix & recompile several times
<LaserJock> you're talking to a raging Ubuntu-holic MOTU here
<LaserJock> I don't recompile
<LaserJock> ;-)
<ajmitch> ah sorry
<LaserJock> heh
<Simon80> sure you don't, lol
<ajmitch> you don't compile, you just upload & it works every time
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> wave my hands over the debdiff
* ajmitch bows before the legend
<LaserJock> "bugs be GONE!"
* bhale begs for f-spot 0.3.0
<joejaxx> anyone here know how to use quilt?
<LaserJock> not particularly
<joejaxx> oh ok
<jdong> LaserJock: I thought it was "THE POWERS OF APT COMPELL YOU" * 2
<LaserJock> you should check the patching motu school session though
<LaserJock> jdong: not necessary, yet
<LaserJock> if it was a kernel yeah
<joejaxx> LaserJock: they talk about quilt?
<ajmitch> bhale: hm?
<bhale> ajmitch: hm. ;)
<bhale> kidding
<bhale> im playing the spayne
<ajmitch> bhale: surely you can't be wanting it right now..
<LaserJock> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
<ajmitch> x86 or amd64?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: at the bottom
<bhale> ajmitch: I could care less :)
<ajmitch> figured
<bhale> will get it when you upload
<bhale> i run most things from cvs
<LaserJock> pitti's patching MOTU School lesson was awesome
<ajmitch> tonight
<bhale> lovely
<ajmitch> package is there, I haven't tested the importing though
<ajmitch> I have to find my camera & cable
<LaserJock> I have a hard time with cvs
<joejaxx> LaserJock: thanks :)
<LaserJock> it's a real drag when you started with bzr and then svn and then cvs
<LaserJock> joejaxx: I think I also put that in the Edgy packaging guide, btw
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> i will look at that also
<LaserJock> well, it's pretty much the same thing
<ajmitch> you should look at that first
<LaserJock> I don't actually "write" anything
<ajmitch> packaging guide is good
<LaserJock> I just steal from all the dieties
<ajmitch> LaserJock doesn't need to write, he speaks, and words appear
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> if only
<LaserJock> that bugger took a lot of time during Dapper
<jdong> ajmitch: I've tried something like that before.... but the words weren't what I spoke....
<jdong> and to make it work apparently I had to read alice in wonderland to my PC
<LaserJock> if only I can get the Ubuntu Developer's Reference written  :/
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have something solid rather then "what's on the wiki today?"
<bhale> yes.
<ajmitch> over 20 different wiki pages
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> well, I'm hoping Debian converts their Developer's Reference to docbook soon
<bhale> we wrote the mono policy in docbook
<bhale> well, it was sgml i think
<LaserJock> as I'm not keen on figuring out how to deal with debiandoc 
<bhale> some kind of markup -> transform
<bhale> it was easy enough
<LaserJock> we use docbook XML for all the docs in the doc team
<LaserJock> so it's what I know
<LaserJock> and an docbook version of the Debian Developer's Reference exists
<LaserJock> but I don't think they've switched over yet
<bhale> <!doctype debiandoc public "-//DebianDoc//DTD DebianDoc//EN"> <book>
<bhale> if I can write that, you cna too
<LaserJock> well, it's not so much writing
<LaserJock> but making sure translations, etc. work out ok
<bhale> I see
<LaserJock> I'd like to put it on Rosetta
<LaserJock> etc.
<LaserJock> and it also means I can't us the doc teams existing docbook tools
<LaserJock> not a big deal but if they are going to docbook it'd make my life a little easier
<bhale> we arent that well equipped to help developers who dont speak english
<LaserJock> yeah
<bhale> i guess it is nice to read the doc in your own language anyway
<joejaxx> LaserJock: is there a ubuntu patch?
<LaserJock> the packaging guide is completely translated into Korean though :-)
<joejaxx> that i can apply to a vanilla kernel?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> how the heck would I know?
<LaserJock> I don't know *everything* ;-)
<joejaxx> oh ok :)
<LaserJock> I think the Ubuntu patches are around somewhere
<Simon80> jdong: you were right about my configure script perms, it was in the diff, so pbuilder unpacks, ne exec perms
<Simon80> no*
<jdong> Simon80: ah :)
<Simon80> just dawned on me
<jdong> Simon80: I was right only because I was puzzled by similar issues before ;-)
<LaserJock> mhm
<jdong> trust me... I've made every "no duh" mistake there is
<Simon80> cool
<Simon80> I'll just bug you about them then ;)
<LaserJock> jdong: that reminds me, you going to apply for MOTU when Council Greyskull gets going? :-)
<jdong> what do you mean by that?
<LaserJock> you've been doing a lot of backporting
<LaserJock> and hanging out here
<LaserJock> you should apply for MOTUship
<bddebian> Council Greyskull?  WTF? :-)
<jdong> well, I need more credentials :)
<jdong> I will go for MOTU at some point :)
<jdong> as soon as I run out of excuses
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> bddebian: of course, led by Prince dholbach
<chillywilly> http://rafb.net/paste/results/hnx7Lb50.html
<chillywilly> Can anyone help with that?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hehe
<chillywilly> that system is really broken now :(
<chillywilly> dist-upgrade to edgy for amd64 server
<LaserJock> somehow we'll find bhale's sword again, probably on ebay
<LaserJock> and then we'll be good to go
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> chillywilly: gen-locales?
<bddebian> Or whatever the hell it's called
<bhale> dholbach can have it, i dont have time for meetings at all hours of the day
<chillywilly> otherwise I have to rebuild the whole box and I'll be up all night
<LaserJock> bhale: yeah, meetings are such a pain
<bddebian> locale-gen?
<bddebian> Gah, I can never freakin' remember
<chillywilly> no dice
<LaserJock> ok, bbl. my edgy upgrade is finished
<bddebian> Later LaserJock
<chillywilly> you think it's dying just because of the locale?
<ajmitch> no, that's a warning
<bhale> LC_ALL=C yourcommand
<chillywilly> locale-gen is working
<chillywilly> it still dumps core
<chillywilly> just doesn't bitch about locales anymore ;)
<imbrandon> ello all
<chillywilly> http://rafb.net/paste/results/zHMaBl92.html
* chillywilly curses the day he installed amd64 ;)
<bhale> hi imbrandon 
<chillywilly> any possible way I can work around installing that package?
<jdong> imbrandon: so how are you doing today? :)
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> tired, still adjusting to my new schedule, fighting the snowy weather storms and still fighting that fskin windows box
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch bhale 
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon> heya bddebian 
<jdong> imbrandon: the windows box is still tormenting you?
<imbrandon> well i got it to a fixable stage last night and left it for the weekend
<jdong> imbrandon: come over to my place and plug it in directly to my cable modem.... it'll die a quick pain-free death :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> i have one last thing to try on it saturday when i'm not dead tired, then i'm going to fsk the disk and load ubuntu on it , skin it like windows ( with my theme ) and hope my stepdad ( its his box ) dont whinge too much
<imbrandon> i might do that anyhow, just because i hate supporting windows ( much less supporting windows for free { family } )
<jdong> lol
<jdong> I know how you feel...
<jdong> I've got parents who insist on MS products too
<jdong> worst of all they insist on using IE and Outlook
<imbrandon> well if he wasent 67 years old , i wouldent feel so bad about it
<imbrandon> but i hate to make him relearn it , honstly , but man-o-man their is a limmit to everyting
<jdong> strangely enough I've gotten pretty competent at repairing borked windows boxes....
<imbrandon> anyhow , hows things in the MOTU world, i've kinda been MIA the last 4 days ( only on and off ) untill i can get my body on the right time
<imbrandon> jdong: well i used to think i was, even prided myself on it, but after this i dont wanna tuch another broken windows box
<imbrandon> touch*
<jdong> :)
<imbrandon> this new job rocks, and i'll actualy have alot more free time that i thought ( and time at work to work on kubuntu ) but i need to get my body in the right state, man i'm just so fskin beat when i get home because i'm not used to being awake at those hours
<imbrandon> s/that/than
<Simon80> what job?
<Simon80> I want a job that lets me work on FOSS :)
<imbrandon> Simon80: i started a new job last monday ( a sysadmin at a NOC )
<Simon80> NOC?
<rrittenhouse> Simon80, heck yea.
<imbrandon> network operations center
<Simon80> oh
<imbrandon> we host walmart.com and sprint.com , visa.com ( and their transation stuff ) and a few other high profile stuff
<imbrandon> i get to sit and update and keep ubuntu servers secure all day ( and migrate a few remaning ones from centos to ubuntu )
<ajmitch> imbrandon: yes, we hates you
<imbrandon> plus i have time aloted each day paid to package etc etc etc
<imbrandon> :)
* ajmitch sighs
<imbrandon> ajmitch: i got my ip and port assignment for the employee rack today, now just need to grab a rack case :)
<imbrandon> ( has to fit into a 2u slot ) , other than that no restrictions 
<imbrandon> s/rack/rack\ mount/
<imbrandon> then imbrandon.com gets an upgrade to a co-lo box , woohoo
<imbrandon> hrm
<Simon80> sweet
<Simon80> I'm at the stage where a co-lo would be nice for me
<Simon80> but I dunno how to shop for 2u boxen
<Simon80> though, lol, that'd be like a fancy car for me, get a shiny new Ultrasparc-T2 or something
<Simon80> not that I would, I'm also cheap
<ajmitch> imbrandon: so get me a job, will you? :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch: :) , i need to get some time in^W^W pull , then i can :)
<imbrandon> Simon80: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?btnG=Search+Froogle&q=2u+rackmount+cases
<ajmitch> hehe
<imbrandon> Simon80: ~150-250 USD depending
<imbrandon> on style , features , etc
<Simon80> inc. mobo?
<imbrandon> no, just case
<Simon80> :(
<Simon80> so wouldn't fitting stuff in pose issues?
<imbrandon> in a 2u , yes, in a 4u case, standard desktop stuff fits
<Simon80> 4u is huge though
<imbrandon> 2u you have to get a special psu, low profile fans, low pci , etc etc etc
<imbrandon> same with 1u
<Simon80> exactly, how do you shop for that?
<imbrandon> afaik there is no 3u
<imbrandon> Simon80: froogle, newegg, etc etc etc
<Simon80> sounds hard :(
<Simon80> I live in Canada, too
<imbrandon> compusa, almost any computer shop thats not ONLY desktops will have the stuff
<Simon80> ah, like my 770
<Simon80> stupid being in Canada...
<Simon80> least our gov't... nvm
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> least our PM looks tight in a mumu
<imbrandon> your what in a who ?
<bddebian> Their prime minister in a skirt ;-P
<imbrandon> ahh
<jdong> bddebian: that's what I first read it as... I was hoping I was crazy...
<jdong> like the other day trying t o understand what "blurg" meant :D
<jdong> apparently it's not "a small little known organ in the human body, located slightly medial and dorsal to the vermiform appendix, also referred to as the "love muffin.""
<imbrandon> isnt the canada PM a guy ? quote from www.pm.gc.ca "Prime Minister Stephen Harper today announced that Canadas New Government is....."
<Simon80> yes
<Simon80> but have you seen him an a mumu?
<imbrandon> ummm, ok now i'm a tad lost ...... no
<imbrandon> i'm not exactly sure what a "mumu" is :)
<Simon80> I'll try to find the relevant rick mercer clip
<Simon80> nothing outlandish about him in a mumu, it's what was said about it that was funny
<imbrandon> heh ok, btw and rick mercer is .... ?
<Simon80> one sec
<imbrandon> hehe ok
<imbrandon> brb mt dew withdraw
<imbrandon> fridge run
<Simon80> http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/videos/china_vs_canada.mov
<Simon80> rick mercer is Canada's answer to comedy
<imbrandon> ahh
<Simon80> so, um, if lintian warns of a menu item not in xpm format, I need to fix that befure the package has a chance, right?
<Burgundavia> yay! compiz bugs!
<Simon80> anyone?
<joejaxx> welcome back LaserJock 
<jbailey> Mmm, so I haven't done a universe upload in ages, how do I tell if someone is working on a merge or not? =)
<ajmitch> hey jeff
<ajmitch> which merge?
<ajmitch> or do you just have copious spare time?
<jbailey> ajmitch: frozen-bubble =)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jbailey> The ubuntu patch is a really trivial one.
<ajmitch> I think StevenK may have been looking at that, or fujitsu
<jbailey> And can probably be discarded.
<jbailey> But I haven't confirmed that yet, it's just a .desktop file.
<Simon80> so um, like I said, if lintian complains about a menu icon not in xpm format, I have to fix that right?
<ajmitch> yes, StevenK 
<jbailey> ajmitch: So I have to just be patient and be careful when upgrading my wife's machine to feisty? =)
<ajmitch> of course :)
<ajmitch> ah, StevenK was asking if loic was seen around
<ajmitch> if you upload f-b, I'm sure not too many people will complain
* Simon80 will complain.. jk
<ajmitch> Simon80: it's a warning, I don't know if it's particularly required to have it in xpm format
<ajmitch> you could probably convert an icon to xpm fairly easily
<jbailey> ajmitch: Depends on the window manager.
<jbailey> ajmitch: Some cope with png/svg and friends.
<jbailey> Some don't.
<ajmitch> true
<jbailey> I'd probably ignore the warning, myself...
<Simon80> only, it
<Simon80> 's not a warning
<Simon80> :(
<Simon80> it's ok, though, pngtopnm|ppmtoxpm > stepmania.xpm seems to work accorrding to eog
<Simon80> W: stepmania: binary-without-manpage stepmania
<Simon80> W: stepmania: extra-license-file usr/share/doc/stepmania/Copying.txt.gz
<Simon80> E: stepmania: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/applications
<Simon80> E: stepmania: menu-icon-not-in-xpm-format /usr/share/pixmaps/stepmania.png
<Simon80> W: stepmania: extended-description-line-too-long
<Simon80> W: stepmania: extended-description-line-too-long
<Simon80> I'm ignoring the source warnings, they're not my fault
<Simon80> ...so they are omitted
<ajmitch> not your fault?
<Simon80> no, if I unpack a release tarball and it has cruft that lintian warns about, what am I supposed to do?
<ajmitch> fix it
<Simon80> but that adds to the diff, all in the name of cruft cleaning?
<Simon80> who cares?
<ajmitch> we care
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> seriously, you're joking, right?
<Simon80> I don't wanna pollute my diff
<ajmitch> you don't want to 'pollute' it with fixes?
<Simon80> fixes? they aren't fixes
<Simon80> they're rmed files
<jbailey> ajmitch: Yup, the patch is definetly merges upstream.
<jbailey> ajmitch: How do you guys request syncs?
<Simon80> open a bug I hear
<ajmitch> jbailey: great, are any archive admins awake to prod it through? 
<Simon80> am I right?
<ajmitch> same way as main, file a bug, pitti's script on DeveloperResources is useful
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> bug 72543
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72543 in frozen-bubble "Please sync 2.0.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72543
<ajmitch> so just need to find an archive admin who's awake
<ajmitch> & convince them that this is critical
<jbailey> ajmitch: *lol*
* ajmitch wonders if this bug will get rejected due to a potential decline in productivity
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> isn't frozen bubble in ubuntu already?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: what productivity?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: that mythical beast
<LaserJock> the He-man fights?
<ajmitch> heh
<LaserJock> or maybe I'm mixing up my super heros
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> doh, i had no witty reply, i was playing frozen bubble
<imbrandon> oops
<jdong> on behalf of imbrandon: maybe it'll get done faster if you file a spec, ajmitch ;-)
<joejaxx> frozen buble?
<joejaxx> bubble*?
<imbrandon> !frozen-bubble
<Simon80> it's a crappy bust-a-move clone
<ubotu> frozen-bubble: Pop out the bubbles !. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.0.0-6ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 72 kB, installed size 356 kB
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> !xgalaga-hyperspace
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about xgalaga-hyperspace - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<joejaxx> !xgalaga
<Simon80> !ut2004
<Simon80> :D
<ubotu> xgalaga: X11 version of the famous Galaga game. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.34-37ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 253 kB, installed size 788 kB
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ut2004 - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jdong> Simon80: sheesh
<Simon80> unfreedom
<jdong> Simon80: you don't have to be so blunt about f-b :)
<Simon80> sorry man, I hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings
<jdong> ya know, some people spend hours trying to beat that stupid level I keep on getting stuck on
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> which one?
<Simon80> not that I'd know it
<Burgundavia> I got to 45 in a straight run at work
<Burgundavia> bloody brilliant
<imbrandon> heh
<jdong> :)
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> turning on -cr is more fun even in solo
<Simon80> -cr?
<jdong> kinda makes several levels very cheap
<jdong> chain reactions
<Simon80> ah
<joejaxx> my cluster kernels keep failing to build haha
<jdong> hehe, my grsec kernels still think modprobe is a security threat :)
<jdong> I guess it's a bad night for kernel builds too
<imbrandon> there is a reason i use gentoo for my cluster :)
<Simon80> I like gentoo
<joejaxx> imbrandon: on the xbox's?
<Simon80> for stuff whereyou want flexibility
<imbrandon> gentoo sucks, but you cant beat its clustering
<joejaxx> imbrandon: what clustering project are you using?
<imbrandon> joejaxx: depends on what i want to run, they have openmosix loaded atm i think
<jdong> I used to swear by gentoo before ubuntu came around...
<Simon80> hell yeah, stepmania-3.9
<jdong> imbrandon: openmosix works in gentoo now?
<Simon80> I packaged it! ME!
<imbrandon> jdong: you dont count
<jdong> imbrandon: grr :)
<joejaxx> lol
<Simon80> now I have to wait while it loads 1.8 gigs of unfree music
<jdong> the last time (a LONG time ago) I tried, python has random segfaults in om
<joejaxx> the 2.4 kernel does not like building on ubuntu lol
<imbrandon> gentoo truely does suck, but it has a few things that are good for a very limited number of environments
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: why exactly are you messing with 2.4?
<mr-russ> hi I am attempting to backport a package and thought this might be the best place to ask my question.
<Simon80> eww, 2.4
<imbrandon> and actualy for what i do now, ubuntu would work, i'm just to lazy to reload the boxes atm
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: clustering
<imbrandon> joejaxx: and?
<Burgundavia> umm?
<Simon80> lol
<mr-russ> towards the end of the build, I get the following message...
<imbrandon> what does 2.4 have to do with clustering
<imbrandon> joejaxx: ^
<joejaxx> 2.4 has stable patches
<imbrandon> bah
<joejaxx> for what i need to do
<crimsun> (last I checked OM is not stable on 2.6)
<jdong> joejaxx: err, 2.4 and ubuntu/udev... do they mix?
<joejaxx> crimsun: exactly
<imbrandon> crimsun: but works :)
<crimsun> mr-russ: pastebin.
* mr-russ waits for error to appear on my terminal again.
<joejaxx> imbrandon: quilt is not working for me
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i also tried the 2.6 patchs
<joejaxx> patches
<imbrandon> joejaxx: have you tried to snag the knopix cluster kernel ? ( since it IS debian based ) but you'll have udev etc issues i would imagine
<joejaxx> with gentoo i am guessing all you did was emerge a om enabled kernel
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> or the patches
<joejaxx> imbrandon: is it 2.6?
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea there are overlays for it ( and for the xbox gentoo kernel )
<joejaxx> oh ok
<imbrandon> joejaxx: i have no idea, i just know knoppix cluster cd uses OM also and knoppix is debian based
<imbrandon> so you MIGHT be able to work something out
<imbrandon> just was a passing thought
<joejaxx> debian has om packages
<imbrandon> i mean the kernel
<joejaxx> but foe 2.4
<joejaxx> oh
<joejaxx> i might as well try and get quilt to work
<jdong> has anyone successfully configured a PaX+grsec kernel for Ubuntu and if so, can I get a copy of .config?
<joejaxx> it will not patch right
<imbrandon> but as jdong said you will have more problems with 2.4 and modern ubuntu then with OM itself
<joejaxx> jdong: i did 
<joejaxx> but i wipe it lol
<jdong> the screenfuls of segfaults are far less than amusing now
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> insmod and modprobe in initrd segfault
<imbrandon> you two need to get friendly with the #ubuntu-kernel guys for this stuff :P heheh
<jdong> yeah, when I feel more motivated to spend more time with the stupid compile
<jdong> (i.e. when my gateway gets hacked)
<mr-russ> and finally!   http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/nw5Vj497.html
<crimsun> and the contents of debian/libsasl2/DEBIAN/control?
<imbrandon> ok i'm headed to sleep yall, gnight
<mr-russ> crimson, the issue is that the substituions are not happening, but I wll paste the file FYI
<joejaxx> Goodnight imbrandon 
<mr-russ> crimsun: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/2YcQwq91.html
<crimsun> To what release(s) are you backporting?
<mr-russ> I'm attempting to backport this package from fiesty to dapper.
<mr-russ> I may need to update using the maintainers guide.
<mr-russ> but I thought backporting would be faster, maybe not.
<joejaxx> !pastebin > joejaxx
<crimsun> support for ${binary-Version} wasn't added until dpkg 1.13.19. Dapper has 1.13.11ubuntu7.
<crimsun> (technically support for binary:Version)
<mr-russ> crap.
<mr-russ> I can either backport dpkg, or attempt to do it another way.
<mr-russ> either way, thankyou very much crimson.  I would not have known how to find that info out.  
<mr-russ> In fact so I can in the future, how did you find that information?
<crimsun> I read the dpkg changelog.
<mr-russ> ah, thanks.   I'll remember that for the future.  thanks again.
<crimsun> np
<LaserJock> hmm, I firefox window just sitting in the background pegged my cpu :/
<LaserJock> I hate those weird things
<joejaxx> http://pastebin.ca/263130
<joejaxx> does that look interesting to anyone?
<joejaxx> zul: ?
<crimsun> the kernel has to be built with -fno-stack-protector
<joejaxx> --fno-stack-protector?
<joejaxx> two dashes in front?
<crimsun> CFLAGS += -fno-stack-protector
<crimsun> not precise; see how it's done in debian/rules
<crimsun> or in the top-level Makefile
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> crimsun: i am going to try and compile again thanks
<Simon80> if any DDR geeks want to test my stepmania 3.9 package, it's going into revu now.. the only thing I'm unsure of is the threads compile error fix
<Simon80> jdong: you into dance dance revolution?
<Simon80> :)
<jdong> no :)
<jdong> what do you ask? :)
<Simon80> nvm then, lol
<jdong> god, I just had the horrible displeasure of watching that shoes video on  youtube
<Simon80> you joined right after I plugged my package going into revu
<Simon80> shoes video?
<jdong> you don't want to know
<Simon80> oh
<jdong> liam kyle sullivan... "kelly" in drag?
<jdong> I'm gonna spare everyone the torture and NOT link to the video
<Simon80> and btw, I made a script that scrapes flv files out of your firefox cache and dumps them into the current dir
<jdong> :)
<Simon80> in response to someone elses badly implemented attempt at the same
<Simon80> great idea
<jdong> why not just use something like keepvid.com :)
<Simon80> but they reimplemented base-10 using a 3 digit string array
<Simon80> keepvid doesn't work on anything but mainstrema sites
<Simon80> stream*
<Simon80> besides, that's a privacy issue, sending them your vid links
<Simon80> use all-in-one video bookmarklet if you must
<jdong> mmm
<jdong> I see
<Simon80> but scraping the cache grabs any flv, mainstream or not
<Simon80> that's why I'm happy about it
<jdong> god now that shoes thing is stuck in my head
<jdong> grr
<jdong> shoot me now...
<Admiral_Chicago> jdong: the "shoes" video on Youtube
<ademan> so yeah still no luck with that stupid eclipse-cdt
<dholbach> good morning
<LaserJock> hi dholbach Fujitsu and raphink 
<LaserJock> it appears I'm up too late ;-)
<dholbach> hi LaserJock Fujitsu raphink! how's it going?
<raphink> hi LaserJock & dholbach
<yaso> how to reqest "unaffiliated" user clock. 
<Burgundavia> yaso: sorry
<Burgundavia> ?
<yaso> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
<Burgundavia> ah, that would be a freenode thing
<Burgundavia> not an Ubuntu thing
<yaso> you have any idea?
<Burgundavia> sorry, no
<yaso> recently I've been attacked by irc worm :(
<yaso> thanks
<Burgundavia> no worries
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<dholbach> how's it going?
<proppy> fine, late at work as usual :)
<dholbach> :-)
* dholbach hugs proppy
<proppy> crimsun has requested a sync, for the last package that is blocking the poker2d build
<proppy> so everything is going to be extra awesome :)
<proppy> got to go to work see ya :)
<Seeker`> geser: The package has made it through to the archive :D
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=296
<joejaxx> haha lol
<joejaxx> "Please Correct This"
<joejaxx> </quote>
<joejaxx> funny thing is i am using append to version
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: thankyou for the blue shiny :)
<elkbuntu> :)
<joejaxx> Hello Hobbsee elkbuntu :)
<Hobbsee> heya
<elkbuntu> hi joejaxx :)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> today should be interesting
<joejaxx> to test feisty
<rmjb> jdong: the ssh through ISA http proxy is working great!
<rmjb> thanks for the info
<jdong> rmjb: congrats :)
<jdong> does that mean if I CTCP version you, you won't be running CGI:IRC? ;-)
<jdong> most proxies are dumb enough to not catch that'
<jdong> in which case you've effectively bypassed all filtering...
<jdong> unless there's a stupic client-side filter too
<rmjb> you might see irssi as my version :)
<jdong> in which case, here's a bag full of explicatives to choose from :)
<joejaxx> ha!
<joejaxx> the the 7.04 alt cd is 704 mb
<jdong> cue smart ass reply: if only the 6.10 CD was 610MB?
<joejaxx> yeah lol
<joejaxx> and 4.10 410
<joejaxx> jdong: do you know why this is happening?
<joejaxx> http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=296
<jdong> joejaxx: debian/control thinks you have a different kernel version than Makefile
<jdong> I haven't played with kernel packaging enough to know how to remedy that though
<joejaxx> oh ok
<jdong> joejaxx: why not use kernel-package?
<jdong> just curious
<jdong> in Edgy it spits out good linux-* package names now
<joejaxx> i need vanilla 2.6.17
<joejaxx> oh nevermind
<joejaxx> i forgot 
<joejaxx> this is an already patched kernel
<joejaxx> not vanilla
<joejaxx> jdong: kernel package?
<jdong> kernel-package command
<jdong> in package kernel-package
<jdong> invoked like kernel-package --initrd kernel_image kernel_header kernel_sources
<joejaxx> i do
<jdong> oh I thought you were working directly off linux-source-x.x.xx packages
<jdong> nvm then
<jdong> to fix that error of yours, rm -rf debian/  is probably the easiest then :D
<joejaxx> make-kpkg --rootcmd fakeroot --initrd --append-to-version=-jaxx kernel_image kernel_headers
<joejaxx> jdong: the thing is
<joejaxx> that debian folder is being create once i start the process
<joejaxx> i do not think i want to remove it while itis compilinglol
<joejaxx> LOL! the size dropped down to 689mb
<jdong> no, it's a feature not a bug :)
<jdong> in subsequent runs if version number isn't changed to make-kpkg, it is just a fancy debuild :)
<joejaxx> they just built another set
<joejaxx> jdong:  so what should i do if i cannot remove debian/
<joejaxx> because it is stopping the build process
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> you can't rm -rf debian/ ?
<joejaxx> there is not a debian folder before i start the compile
<joejaxx> it creates it
<joejaxx> when i do
<jdong> oh
<jdong> then you need to change your appent-to-version to -jaxx-om
<joejaxx> i did
<joejaxx> then it says
<joejaxx> for the top part
<joejaxx> -jaxx-om-om
<jdong> lol
<jdong> remove localversion
<jdong> or whatever else is appending that second -om
<jdong> The UTS Release version in include/linux/version.h
<jdong>      "2.6.17-jaxx-om" 
<jdong> does not match current version:
<jdong>      "2.6.17-jaxx" 
<jdong> Please correct this.
<jdong> ya sure?
<joejaxx> it says that
<joejaxx> when i do --a-t-v=-jaxx-om
<joejaxx> it says
<joejaxx> 2.6.17-jaxx-om-om
<joejaxx> and
<joejaxx> 2.6.17-jaxx-om
<jdong> mmm
<jdong> you got a local version appending -om
<jdong> and you got extraversion saying -om already
<joejaxx> how do i fix that?
<jdong> find a localversion or .localversion file
<jdong> and delete it
<joejaxx> KERNELVERSION = $(VERSION).$(PATCHLEVEL).$(SUBLEVEL)$(EXTRAVERSION)-om
<joejaxx> that is the problem
<jdong> oh wow, that's stupid on -om-patch's behalf'
<joejaxx> they did not put it on the EXTRAVERSION line
<jdong> I've never seen a kernel patch try that trick
<jdong> most of the times they just add an extraversion or localversion
<joejaxx> jdong: it should be on the extraversion variable line
<joejaxx> exactly
<jdong> not hard-code the kernel Makefile to do its dirty work :D
* joejaxx now knows he was not seeing things
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> let me remove that
<joejaxx> and put it in its properplace
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<joejaxx> jdong: ping
<jdong> joejaxx: mmm?
<joejaxx> he says it is an ubuntu bug
<jdong> who?
<joejaxx> jdong: the person who compiled it
<joejaxx> the upstream
<joejaxx> jdong: it is the way they do the versioning
<joejaxx> which makes no sense to me
<joejaxx> if you are not using the extraversion variable
<jdong> it's fundamentally -om's issue
<jdong> but it is true that kernel-package doesn't take into account what's being done
<jdong> i.e. it internally builds the version, instead of reading it back from the makefile variable
<joejaxx> yeah
<joejaxx> well atleast i fixed it :)
* proppy hugs dholbach
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<dholbach> proppy: how's it going?
<proppy> nice, we finally found a partner who is motivated enough to use our packaging-farm :)
<proppy> this will surely lead to many improvment 
<shawarma> Who - besides slomo - deals with texlive and such?
<proppy> dholbach: packaging-farm <=> http://pokersource.info/developers/index.php thing
<dholbach> nice
<Q-FUNK> dholbach: planner was uploaded to Debian a couple of days ago.  does it need an explicit sync request?
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: no should be synced automatically
<Q-FUNK> ok
<dholbach> Q-FUNK: we're just in a freeze to get the first cd for testing ready
<dholbach> after that it should be done magically
<Q-FUNK> ok
<proppy> dholbach: are you avaiable to revu my package ?
<proppy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3601
<dholbach> I'm busy with something else at the moment
<dholbach> would you mind dropping me a mail with the link?
<proppy> np
<dholbach> I'll take care of it, when I get to it then
<dholbach> dholbach@ubuntu.com
<proppy> dholbach: done and thanks :)
* proppy hugs dholbach
<dholbach> super
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<chillywilly> lots of my shell scripts are now broken after the edgy upgrade
<chillywilly> I get the same error messages but of course depending on the script it bitches about different line numbers
<chillywilly> 87: Syntax error: Bad substitution
<chillywilly> message*
<jdong> chillywilly: /bin/sh is now a POSIX bourne shell (dash)
<jdong> chillywilly: your scripts are calling /bin/sh and expecting bash, which is plain bad behavior :)
<jdong> have them call /bin/bash explicitly if they need bash features
<jdong> and if it's a script in ubuntu packages, file a bug
<chillywilly> dude, this is not cool at all for a production server
<Q-FUNK> chillywilly: better yet, use debian tools to spot bashism in your scripts and fix them. :)
<bhale> what is cool is not writing bashisms in a script that says #!/bin/sh
<Q-FUNK> it's surprisingly easy to fix bashisms, in most cases
<siretart> chillywilly: as a hotfix, you could change the /bin/sh symlink. 
<jdong> chillywilly: laziness would say to just symlink bash back to sh :D
<chillywilly> how about I just have /bin/sh point at bash for now so my backup script works...hell I couldn't even built a new sangoma driver either because of this
<jdong> but that doesn't really solve the heart of the problems
<siretart> chillywilly: but better fix your scripts. either by running them with /bin/bash, or even better, get rid of bashisms
<joejaxx> sudo ln -s /bin/bash /bin/sh LOL!
<bhale> sounds like your own fault
<bhale> fix your shebang lines
<jdong> joejaxx: sadly I have that on one of my systems
<chillywilly> no, I didn't write the Setup script for the sangoma card
<chillywilly> driver
<joejaxx> jdong: :)
<jdong> stupid proprietary app with bashisms :)
<joejaxx> Lol
<joejaxx> bashisms
<joejaxx> this should be fun
<joejaxx> running ubuntu without all those fun restricted modules
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> noo!
* joejaxx forgot sudo
<joejaxx> bahumbug
<joejaxx> so it compiled but could not place the debs in ../
<joejaxx> lol
<jdong> joejaxx: that can't be worse than misspelling your username in sudoers
<joejaxx> lol!
<joejaxx> hold on brb
<chillywilly> is the /bin/sh thing an ubuntu specific change or has debian done a similar thing?
<chillywilly> I'm curious
<jdong> chillywilly: right now it's a ubuntu thing, to make various things faster
<jdong> chillywilly: linux has historically had bash act as sh
<jdong> chillywilly: though look anywhere else in the unix world and you'll find a very POSIX sh
<jdong> fundamentally it's still the script author's fault for calling sh and expecting bash :)
<chillywilly> I still think it's fucking retarded to break expected functionality and this is lame as hell...who the fuck uses dash on a linux system
<geser> why do you expect /bin/sh to be more than posix?
<jdong> chillywilly: expected functionality is that /bin/sh is a POSIX compliant bourne shell
<bhale> knock it off.
<bhale> if you cant articulate your position in a rational manner you need to leave
<bhale> rational meaning not abusive
<Q-FUNK> chillywilly: calm down.  /bin/sh  is not expected to provide anything more than an old-fashion bourne shell.  scripts have to be written with this in mind or otherwise explicitely call the right shell for their needs.
<Q-FUNK> chillywilly:  if they don't, then it's the author's fault and you are expected to file a bug against the package.  
<Q-FUNK> it's that simple.
<jdong> though I must admit our release notes aren't the most verbose about these kinds of things...
<chillywilly> I understand the rationale behind it but I don't think it was a good move no matter how POSIXy or correct it may be in theory
<Q-FUNK> it was an excellent move.  it forces lazy authors to fix their mess.
<jdong> and it makes bootup and ./configure faster :)
<Q-FUNK> you also have to keep in mind that most unices explicitely state that all bootup and maintenance script must be written in posix-compliant (read:  old-fashion, original bourne shell) syntax.
<Q-FUNK> again, if authors choose to disregard that, it's their own fault.
<amnesia> re
<Q-FUNK> chillywilly: in other words, you're beating the wrong people with your cluebat, so please stop.
<Q-FUNK> enforcing posix-compliance and speeding up boot time is a good thing.   authors (or software packagers) ignoring proper posix-compliance bourne syntax is not.
<Q-FUNK> jdong: i think it mostly is that universe package are mostly synced as-is fron debian, which still uses bash as its default bourne shell.
<Q-FUNK> jdong: for ubuntu packages in main, that was already debuged and fixed.
<geser> Q-FUNK: it's in Debian Policy that scripts should use only POSIX features when using /bin/sh or state another shell
<jdong> Q-FUNK: yeah, and also a lot of 3rd party stuff too
<jdong> Q-FUNK: both ATI and nvidia driver installers have suffered from bashisms
<Q-FUNK> geser: it indeed is, but lintian check for this was only added recently.
<amnesia> ajmitch: having problem in REVU with dput, can you lend me a hand there?
<Q-FUNK> thank goodness, jvw and ganneff are more stringent about this one, so it should improve over time, at least for new uploads.
<Q-FUNK> it's mostly with older packages that haven't been updated in ages that it becomes problematic
<\sh> moins
<\sh> guys, I'm just asking myself, how the kernel decides which NIC interface is eth0 and which one is eth1? I can't find any chain between pci id and ethX counting...does anyone has a clue?
<jonh_wendell> \sh, have you looked at source code?
<superm1> isn't it the order that modules get loaded for the devices?
<geser> AFAIK it depends which module is loaded first
<\sh> superm1: and if you don't have modules?
<superm1> well i'm not sure then, you'd have to look at the kernel tree to see
<superm1> i'd guess alphabetically by what the module name would be
<superm1> but that is just a guess
<geser> then the order in which they are initialized by the kernel
<dholbach> \sh: you can bind mac adresses to interface names with /etc/iftab if that helps you
<dholbach> concerning udev/kernel/... questions you might want to ask Keybuk
<\sh> dholbach: well, for debian this would be easy...but I have some deployment information for SUSE, and suse needs bus ids to setup bonding interfaces...and now I have to transition this information to debian/ubuntu and now I'm checking how I can relate bus ids to mac addresses to interface names 
<\sh> setting up bonding on ubuntu/debian is totally clueless and easy...why do I need to use suse..i don't know
<\sh> well, reconnect later from train or home...need to go home
* joejaxx does the kernel dance
<joejaxx> the kernel works!
<joejaxx> i just do not have iwp2200 haha
<amnesia> missing firmware probably
<joejaxx> yeah it says something about the firmware
<joejaxx> i have to fix that
* joejaxx looks for documentation on it
<joejaxx> :)
<sladen> \sh_away: ls -l /sys/bus/pci*/devices/*/net:*
<sladen> \sh_away: will give you the PCI->ifname mappings that you need
* joejaxx does another kernel dance
<joejaxx> joejaxx@equinox:~$ uname -r
<joejaxx> 2.6.17-jaxx-om
<joejaxx> :D :)
<joejaxx> i am so happy :D
<amnesia> bad news for ya, .19 has just been released :)
<joejaxx> amnesia: clustering does not work for 19
<joejaxx> so
* joejaxx is still happy
<joejaxx> haha
<joejaxx> funstuff
<joejaxx> amnesia: :)
<amnesia> take a deep breath man ;)
<joejaxx> ;)
<Adri2000> when the global auto sync is finished, can people request a sync for what they want (i.e. new upstream version in debian) ? or should it aim to fix bugs?
<geser> before the UniverseFreeze every package can be synced through a request
<Adri2000> ok
<geser> but of course you can also fix bugs :)
<superm1> i was just looking at the buildd queues, if something was missing a dependency, and that dependency just got built - does the buildd have to be prodded to try again, or does it figure it out?
<geser> superm1: was the package in deb-wait state?
<superm1> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/280309
<superm1> "Dependency wait"
<geser> superm1: I assume it gets picked up automatically but ask someone more experienced
<geser> try one of the archive admins
<superm1> any idea where they hang out?
<geser> #ubuntu-devel
<superm1> thx geser 
<geser> see https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-archive
<LaserJock> generally it retries 
<superm1> ah okay
<LaserJock> put probably only so many times before it gives up
<superm1> well the dependency for it got built like 20 minutes before
<superm1> it just must have not synced to the server it grabs deps from yet
<LaserJock> I would have thought it would have been enough
<superm1> oh actually.... some of the builds (like i386) only had like 5 or 6 minutes between.  others had upwards of 20 minutes
<geser> is the archive still frozen?
<superm1> okay well i'll wait it out and see :)
<LaserJock> oh yeah
<LaserJock> it might be
<jorgp> im very new to pbuilder, and trying to build a package and tweak the depends, right now, I did sudo pbuilder build package, it fails.. I fix the control file, but I run pbuilder again and it has to redownload all the depends, is there a better way?
<geser> it usually caches the downloaded apts
<geser> but it must reinstall them in the chroot
<geser> s/apts/debs/
<jorgp> its doing the considering package now
<jorgp> this process takes awhile
<amnesia> jorgp: it cached for me by default
<jorgp> im about to see what its gonna do
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ping
<LaserJock> jorgp: did you make sure to rebuild the source package before giving it to pbuilder?
<jorgp> yes
<LaserJock> good, that's saves time too
<LaserJock> the time you have to spend using pbuilder the better ;-)
<LaserJock> I hate it when I make a stupid typo or something
<LaserJock> and have to rebuild the whole thing again
<jorgp> yep, it cached them
<superm1> LaserJock, you got a few moments to do a revu today?
<LaserJock> not until this afternoon (i.e. 3-4 hrs from now)
<superm1> cool okay
<stgraber> Adri2000: ping
<Adri2000> pong
<stgraber> do you have a few minute to check : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3576 ?
<phanatic> when will be the first MOTU Council meeting? or still TBD?
<Adri2000> stgraber: fine, now you have to get a motu to check it :)
<LaserJock> phanatic: after we have a MOTU Council
<LaserJock> ;-)
<stgraber> Adri2000: ok :)
<phanatic> LaserJock: oh :)
<sistpoty_uni> hi folks
<stgraber> I'll ping LaserJock when he will be a bit less busy :)
<phanatic> LaserJock: so new -dev membership requests are still up to the TB?
<LaserJock> phanatic: well, I'm not entirely sure, you'd have to ask the TB
<phanatic> LaserJock: thanks for your answer
<siretart> sistpoty_uni: still at uni?
<sistpoty_uni> siretart: yes
* siretart just returned home. how's your vhdl compiler doing?
<sistpoty_uni> siretart: will stay a little bit longer today and go straight to a party from here :)
<siretart> ah, nice
<sistpoty_uni> siretart: I haven't started with the compiler yet... currently I'm still working on an interface for the expect vhdl-interprer (that's already a part of faumachine)... but I assume I will be finished with that test-case in 2-3 weeks
<sistpoty_uni> siretart: how's your thesis getting along?
<siretart> sistpoty_uni: I got to the point where I can say I finished writing. Now I'm waiting for reviews, and my supervisor didn't take a look at it at all yet :(
<siretart> let's call it 'feature complete'
<sistpoty_uni> :)
<dinosaur-rus> hi
<dinosaur-rus> is Apache 2.2.x package going to be released?
<geser> !info apache2 feisty
<ubotu> apache2: next generation, scalable, extendable web server. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.55-4ubuntu4 (edgy), package size 35 kB, installed size 80 kB
<geser> dinosaur-rus: it's in main, you should as in #ubuntu-devel
<dinosaur-rus> no, I mean 2.2.3 (the latest in 2.2 series)
<superm1> debian has 2.2.3-3.1 in unstable
<geser> and the source package for it is apache2 which is in main
<dinosaur-rus> uh, sorry... one guy sent me here :)
<geser> we deal only with universe
<Adri2000> the MoM REPORT file says to use -sa with dpkg-genchanges even if it's not a new upstream release, is it normal?
<Q-FUNK> geser: you realize that this could be interpreted as meaning that we deal with everything and the question whose answer is 42?
<sistpoty_uni> Adri2000: which package?
<Adri2000> powermanga
<geser> Q-FUNK: I will be more cautious the next time to not reveal to much
<Q-FUNK> ;)
<Adri2000> sistpoty_uni: but seems that it recently changed from native to non-native package, maybe it explains that
<Adri2000> * Repackage previous upload as non-native.
<sistpoty_uni> Adri2000: no, both have an orig.tar.gz... but the debian one has a different one (.dfsg in it)
<Adri2000> ah yeah
<Adri2000> sistpoty_uni: and the dfsg package includes the debian directory, also normal?
<Adri2000> s/package/orig tarball/
<sistpoty_uni> Adri2000: no, I guess that must have been an accidant
<Adri2000> ok
<ajmitch> morning all
<phanatic> morning ajmitch 
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: pingy!
<ajmitch> 7:30, saturday morning for Fujitsu 
<ajmitch> he'd better not be up already
<LaserJock> oh that's right, you are an hour ahead?
<ajmitch> that'd just be wrong
<ajmitch> 2
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I was up at 7:30
<LaserJock> although it is Friday here
<LaserJock> well we got the 5th "works for me" for the maxima bug
<LaserJock> so we are good to go to upload to dapper-updates
<ajmitch> yes, really 
<LaserJock> or wait, do we need the motu-sru team to ack it first?
<LaserJock> oh, it already was
* ajmitch shrugs
<ajmitch> not my domain
<LaserJock> crimsun and sistpoty acked it
<LaserJock> it'll probably hit the mirrors almost exactly 6 months since we reported it 
<LaserJock> s/we/somebody/
<LaserJock> and 2 months since it was fixed in Edgy
<LaserJock> hopefully it's the exception to the rule ;-)
* enyc meeps
<sistpoty_uni> LaserJock: I can't find the maxima bug right now... have a bug number?
<sistpoty_uni> LaserJock: but if you have 5 acks, it's imo ok to upload to -updates
<LaserJock> 43150
<LaserJock> bug 43150
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 43150 in maxima "[SRU]  maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150
<LaserJock> it's the only bug number I know by heart
<LaserJock> sistpoty_uni: you already acked the upload to -proposed, do you need another one?
<sistpoty_uni> LaserJock: according to the last policy (MOTU/SRU): no
<sistpoty_uni> LaserJock: please go ahead and upload to -updates ;)
<ajmitch> & then convince an archive admin to not reject it
<sistpoty_uni> (I was just curious that I couldn't find the bug... probably motu-sru was assigned to it and then got unassigned)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: so what's up with whiprush? is he really gone?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: uh what?
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you see his planet post?
<ajmitch> no?
<LaserJock> you better read it
<ajmitch> oh that one, about electing new leaders
<ajmitch> no I don't know what he's up to
<LaserJock> he retitled it
<LaserJock> I certainly share many of his sentiments, but I'd really hate for him to go completely
<ajmitch> what was the title?
<ajmitch> I see he's closed the blog altogether
<LaserJock> something to the effect of "I'm outta here"
<LaserJock> crikey
<LaserJock> ajmitch: did you read the comments he got?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> well, only on some blog posts
<LaserJock> it was pretty pretty brutal, I thought
<Adri2000> I'm looking at a merge with two changes: in B-D s/xlibmesa-gl-dev/libgl1-mesa-dev/ I think it is no longer needed, right? the other change is "added homepage to description", I would request a sync for this package, because merging it at each release only for an url in the description... (and I can file a bug in debian about that)
<LaserJock> basically a lot of "good riddance" kinda stuff
<ajmitch> ouch
<LaserJock> Adri2000: have you built that packages and checked the differences?
<ajmitch> anyway, I've got to head out
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I looked at the .patch provided by grab-merge and there are only these two diffs
<LaserJock> Adri2000: right, but why do you say it is no longer needed?
<Adri2000> because xlibmesa-gl-dev is a "transitional package for Debian etch" and
<Adri2000> xlibmesa-gl-dev
<Adri2000>   Depends: libgl1-mesa-dev
<LaserJock> that means we are moving away from xlibmesa-gl-dev
<LaserJock> so we want to keep that change
<Adri2000> is debian also moving away from xlibmesa-gl-dev?
<LaserJock> not sure exactly, I think perhaps
<LaserJock> you can get some more info on it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/GLU
<LaserJock> but you want to keep that change
<Adri2000> yes, I will see if debian is doing this change also, and then report a bug if needed, because these kind of changes create an avoidable merge workload
<LaserJock> there's a whole bunch of them too
<elektranox> can somebody of you port a kernel module for me (and other ubuntu users with an IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad)?
<gandalfn> hi all,  I would like put four new packages on REVU, my problem with them, there is an already existing package in them on multiverse, moreover i think i made a mistake when i 'dput' on repos :-[
<LaserJock> gandalfn: what is the name?
<LaserJock> is the package in multiverse the same program?
<gandalfn> compiz, compiz-extra, gnome-compiz-manager and gnome-compiz-manager-extra i think you found the duplicate package :)
<LaserJock> ok, but they aren't iin multiverse are they?
<gandalfn> oh yes,  on universe sorry
<LaserJock> ok, so you want to update the packages?
<joejaxx> anyone here a Mac users?
<joejaxx> user*
<joejaxx> is HFS+ journaled?
<LaserJock> can be
<LaserJock> you can turn the journaling on or off
<joejaxx> how do i do that?
<gandalfn> yep i want update compiz package to latest upstream version 0.3.4, moreover i rebuild rules to use cdbs and clean orig tarball which include git repos on universe, all other package are new
<joejaxx> LaserJock: this is 10.2.8 btw
<LaserJock> gandalfn: hmm, I guess quinn storm did the current ones
<LaserJock> did you start from the existing source package?
<gandalfn> yes for all
<LaserJock> ok
<Burgwork> maybe gandalfn should talk with mjg59
<gnomefreak> Burgwork: any ETA on the herd1 isos?
<Burgwork> no idea
<gnomefreak> k
<Burgwork> I just market the stuff, I don't create it
<jdong> are we there yet? 
<jdong> (j/k)
<LaserJock> gandalfn: well, I think any MOTU should be able to sponsor an upload. I just can't right now
<jdong> gnomefreak: hurd1 will be in another century or two, given that there's no regressions from.... oh nvm :)
<gnomefreak> lol
<jdong> that'll be the hallmark joke of this release cycle :D
<jdong> last one was corny knot puns :)
<gandalfn> for compiz, i just keep the universe ubuntu changelog, for compiz-extra, gnome-compiz-manager and gnome-compiz-manager-extra i maintain the source tarball (ps: sorry for lag the time to translate)
<gnomefreak> i cant/wont reinstall until its out and i was hoping to have that done today
<gnomefreak> edgy wont install on this system
<LaserJock> !packagingguide > vyoman 
<vyoman> thanks
<gandalfn> LaserJock: no problemo, i made also a mistake when i uploaded on REVU :-[, I dput them but when i want to login on REVU, i see i don't updated my GPG key on launchpad , well now it's ok. just to point out my packages are rejected on REVU because a bad GPG key :-[
<LaserJock> ah
<vil> hello
<vil> I would like to package a library, but it does not seem to have release number at all. so I would like to use cvs.2006.12.01 suffix for it
<vil> do you think that it is reasonable?
<vil> the complete name would be libjcamp-parser-clc-cvs.2006.12.01
<sistpoty_uni> vil: why do you want to use the version in the package name?
<sistpoty_uni> (date)
<proppy> vil: I'm not a motu, but i see existing package in universe that have following convention libosgal-cvs1_20060410-1ubuntu1_i386
<proppy> vil: actually only one :(
<LaserJock> well, but might be in the versioning rather then the actual name
<sistpoty_uni> proppy: the name of the deb is composed of the package name and the version... 
<sistpoty_uni> exactly, LaserJock 
<vil> yes, that's my intent
<vil> every after last - is the version "number"
<LaserJock> so the package name is libjcamp-parser-clc
<vil> right
<LaserJock> the version would be cvs1_20060410-0ubuntu1 I think
<LaserJock> or wait
<LaserJock> that's not right
<vil> I wanted to use dh_make to make the basic stub. so I prepared the above mentioned dir with sources. however, dh_make complains about it
<sistpoty_uni> vil: the version number should be reasonable small... in case upstream releases 0.1 it should still be higher than the version you choose
<sistpoty_uni> vil: so make it s.th. like 0.0+cvsYYYYMMDD-0ubuntu1
<sistpoty_uni> vil: (which would be just a little bit higher than 0.0, but below 0.1)
<LaserJock> yeah
<sistpoty_uni> vil: or alternatively 0.1~cvsYYYYMMDD (because tilde is like "a little bit less than")
<proppy> sistpoty_uni: sorry i missunderstood his question
<sistpoty_uni> proppy: no problem ;)
<vil> sistpoty_uni: I like the last alternative
* proppy hugs sistpoty_uni
<vil> thanks for explaining
<superm1> hey LaserJock you good for a revu now?
<LaserJock> sadly no
<superm1> ah alrighty
<LaserJock> I still need to get my pbuilders, etc. rebuilt
<sistpoty_uni> vil: no problem... (I used to get version numbers wrong for a very long time myself)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Pong.
<Fujitsu> (I'm normally up at 7:30, but not today)
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: gcl/maxima are good to go
<Fujitsu> I didn't see ACK #5, but I haven't read my emails yet.
<LaserJock> it came
* Fujitsu prepares a dapper-updates upload of both.
<LaserJock> excellent
<Fujitsu> Hm, it appears Tollef is now doing syncs.
<crimsun> LaserJock: / Adri2000: drop the -> libgl1-mesa-dev
<crimsun> LaserJock: / Adri2000: if the synced Debian source builds, there's no reason we should maintain the delta now
<crimsun> and wow does this machine fly with 1.5 GB RAM
<Adri2000> crimsun: ok, and so we drop also the change "added homepage to description" ?
<crimsun> Adri2000: -ENOCONTEXT
<Adri2000> what's -ENOCONTEXT ?! :p
<superm1> jdong, do u know of any bugs going on with backports and the buildd's?  today libraw1394 was in the queue, built fine and all.  somehow though, the results only published the source and not the resultant binaries even though the binaries were actually built
<superm1> see: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libraw1394/1.2.1-2build1~dapper1
<jdong> superm1: NEW queue
<crimsun> Adri2000: it means I lack context, aka you didn't provide enough information.
<jdong> superm1: archive admins have to clear new binary packages
<jdong> give it time
<superm1> well i talked to mdz about it
<jdong> if they don't appear in a reasonable turnaround poke me or an archive admin
<superm1> and he indicated that something went wrong with the buildd not publishing the binary
<superm1> that it should have been automatic
<superm1> i was just curious if you saw this happening multiple times
<jdong> superm1: I thought we agreed libraw1394 generated new binary packages :)
<Adri2000> crimsun: I said earlier:
<Adri2000> <Adri2000> I'm looking at a merge with two changes: in B-D s/xlibmesa-gl-dev/libgl1-mesa-dev/ I think it is no longer needed, right? the other change is "added homepage to description", I would request a sync for this package, because merging it at each release only for an url in the description... (and I can file a bug in debian about that)
<jdong> superm1: -8 instead of -7
<superm1> well it built them.... it just didnt publish
<superm1> yes
<jdong> superm1: that makes it end up in binary NEW
<superm1> oh.....
<jdong> superm1: mdz might not be up-to-date...
<jdong> but that's the way Backports has been since Soyuz
<superm1> that seems to make more sense
<crimsun> Adri2000: yes, it's worth dropping the Ubuntu delta
<ademan> hey when i did apt-get source of eclipse-cdt there didn't actually appear to be any source in the archive...
<jdong> superm1: the archive admins aren't nearly finished with processing all this week's backports.... I expect binary new to be dealt with once that's all done :)
<Adri2000> crimsun: ok thanks, will request a sync
<superm1> and thats why it would need a manual ack.... my bad - just didnt realize thats how it worked 
<jdong> superm1: it was quite confusing my first time too
<jdong> superm1: poor hobbsee's konversation packages stayed in NEW for like a month before we had a clue :D
<superm1> haha
<jdong> superm1: not to mention there was a hilarious bug with once one binary was accepted all the others would reject
<LaserJock> crimsun: I'm not sure I understand
<jdong> superm1: so it was a race which arch was able to build fastest :D
<superm1> hehe
<LaserJock> crimsun: what was the  point of having it in the first place then
<superm1> ouch.  well next time i see mdz around, i'll let him know about this
<superm1> that that was why
<ademan> wow my ubuntu install didn't have cvs by default...
<jdong> superm1: how archive stuff is done is way beyond my scope of knowledge, but personally I think the NEW queue shouldn't be there for backports :)
<jdong> and I'm not sure if infinity ever made backports build against updates
<jdong> maybe I'll ahve to poke him again about that
<crimsun> LaserJock: because we didn't carry xlibmesa-gl-dev in breezy or dapper.
<crimsun> you weren't around then
<superm1> is infinity the only one that does the acks for these things, or do other archive admins as well?
<jdong> superm1: any archive admin does
<crimsun> we did two sets of GL{,u} transitions as MOTU
<jdong> superm1: cjwatson/keybuk typically are the guys who put up with me the most :D
<superm1> k.  well i was gonna say, his IRC message says he's away for the weekend
<superm1> hehe
<crimsun> (back in the days when we used the wiki for coordinating who synced/merged what)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I was around for some of it
<jdong> superm1: and I really feel sorry for them this time around :D
<jdong> superm1: there's a mountain of backports waiting for their loving
<jdong> superm1: the queue hasn't been dealt with since UDS
<superm1> wow
<crimsun> LaserJock: you were around and didn't remember? pssht, what kind of deity is that?!
<LaserJock> so the reason we did the transition was because xlibmesa-gl-dev didn't exist?
<LaserJock> but now it does as a transitional package
<crimsun> it was readded in edgy when we fakesynced as appropriate with Sid's
<LaserJock> crimsun: was just a newb back then and did as I was told
<LaserJock> crimsun: ahhhh, we we brought in the Debian xorg
<LaserJock> *when
<jdong> oh darn, no scummvm 0.9 for hppa.... how tragic
<superm1> jdong, do u actually have a hppa box?
<jdong> superm1: no :)
<jdong> superm1: hence I couldn't predict that scummvm wouldn't be kosher on hppa :)
<superm1> haha
<superm1> i see 
<jdong> not like that would've affected my decision anyway :)
<jdong> I subscribe to the "it couldn't make things worse" ideology quite a bit
<LaserJock> crimsun: there goes my omniscience ;'(
<crimsun> LaserJock: that's ok, you have positive infinity more chances
<superm1> i'd be interested if repo mirrors all took count of how many times certain packages were grabbed.  how many times an arch like hppa had its misc packages actually grabbed
<LaserJock> crimsun: haha
<superm1> so you could gauge popularity of a package without installing popularity content
<LaserJock> I think we should just turn on popcon and not tell anyone
<LaserJock> ;-)
<superm1> hehe
* sistpoty_uni is off again now... cya
<crimsun> cya sistpoty_uni 
<jdong> LaserJock: then I'll direct all the forum flamefests to your e-mail account :)
<superm1> well it really shouldn't be that bad to just parse apache logs on the servers and just strip all the identifiable information though....
<superm1> i mean for a rudimentary estimate that leaves out people that install from local network mirrors and such
<LaserJock> or CDs for the Main stuff
<jdong> that'd be interesting info
<superm1> yea
<superm1> but for at least universe and multiverse you could gauge usage
<LaserJock> I think it's most useful for universe
<LaserJock> Main is pretty much all installed anyway
<superm1> you could then gauge average of bugs/users
<LaserJock> yep
<joejaxx> LaserJock: whould you be able to unstuff a sit for me and send it tar.gz to me?
<joejaxx> i just wiped mac os x
<LaserJock> I remember we used to sort packages on the ToDo wiki pages by popcon
<joejaxx> and os 9 does not do wireless
<LaserJock> joejaxx: how big is it?
<joejaxx> i think maybe 2mb?
<superm1> LaserJock, who would we need to talk to to see if it would be feasible to have a cron job that goes through and parses the logs to generate these stats for universe?
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sure
<LaserJock> superm1: probably somebody like elmo
<joejaxx> LaserJock: http://penguinppc.org/historical/benh/BootX_1.2.2.sit
<superm1> alright i'll ping him and see what he thinks of the idea
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i have breezy installing on a wallstreet :D
<joejaxx> LaserJock: but os9 is taking up 22gb
<joejaxx> lool
<joejaxx> a 22gb partition that is
* jdong notes today is a good day... ktorrent is displaying positive numbers of peers :)
<joejaxx> jdong: :P
* Fujitsu snores while his Dapper pbuilder creates itself.
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: ! :)
<jdong> Fujitsu: everything's faster in tmpfs? :D
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: while your pbuilder is creating itself, would you want to revu homebank? :)
<shawarma> I've got merge for axiom. Any takers? http://www.linux2go.dk/feisty-merges/axiom-merge.patch
<shawarma> Note: testing the build takes about two hours.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Or not! I installed Sid a week ago, and never recreated my pbuilders.
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Sure, link?
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: thanks, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553
<jdong> Fujitsu: oh come on, pbuildering in tmpfs is fun. I do it. that must mean it's smart :D
<joejaxx> jdong: lol!
<LaserJock> joejaxx: sorry, forgot about your tarball. where do you want me to send it?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: jjacksoniv@fluxbuntu.org
<joejaxx> thanks :)
<joejaxx> oh shoot
<joejaxx> does anyone know how i can see the partitions on the hard drive off of the debian cd?
<joejaxx> i need to find out which partition is the linux root
<joejaxx> since this is an oldworld mac
<joejaxx> i know hda10 is the os9 install
<hub> joejaxx: pdisk
<joejaxx> command not found
<hub> joejaxx: weird
<Fujitsu> Adri2000: Looks good! Doing a final build test before I advocate/upload.
<joejaxx> yeah i think i am in the busybox environment
<hub> joejaxx: ah
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: okay :-)
<hub> very long time I haven't touched linuxppc
<hub> since my powerbook died actually
<joejaxx> :(
<hub> but I remember using pdisk to partition
<hub> joejaxx: try hda11
<hub> or hda12
<hub> joejaxx: mount it, you'll see what is inside
<shawarma> LaserJock: Around?
<LaserJock> yeah
<joejaxx> hub: this is not good
<joejaxx> hub: i cannot see any folders inside System on the os9 partition
<shawarma> LaserJock: My first merge for Feisty is ready: http://www.linux2go.dk/feisty-merges/axiom-merge.patch
<shawarma> LaserJock: Come on.. You know you want to! :-)
<LaserJock> uggg, axiom?
<LaserJock> my poor pbuilder can't take it
<shawarma> LaserJock: Yup.
<shawarma> LaserJock: No. It's quite big and quite long.
<shawarma> LaserJock: It took two hours on both amd64 and i386.
<hub> joejaxx: HFS+
<hub> joejaxx: that's why
<joejaxx> mount /dev/hda10 hfs -t hfs
<joejaxx> hub: anyway to get around that?
<hub> nope
<hub> you need hfsplus support
<hub> I thought you wanted to know about / of you linux install
<joejaxx> so i spent the last 5 hours all for nothing lol
<joejaxx> hub: i have to copy vmlinux and initrd.gz over to the os9 partition
<joejaxx> otherwise it will not boot
<hub> won't work that way
<joejaxx> what do you mean?
<hub> you can't write on an HFS+ from standard debian
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> so i did spend the last 5 horus for nothing lol
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-02
<joejaxx> and ubuntu is installed and i cannot boot it LOL!
<joejaxx> well time to put mac os back on here
<superm1> Fujitsu, do you have a min for another revu?
<Fujitsu> superm1: Depends what it is.
<hub> joejaxx: you can boot using openfirmware
<shawarma> LaserJock: Are you up for it?
<hub> even on old world
<hub> I do it
<hub> without using bootx
<joejaxx> hub: what do you mean?
<superm1> Fujitsu, its just this ivtv-firmware installer that was talked about a month ago.  derived from flashplugin-nonfree
<superm1> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3396
<hub> gotta go now
<joejaxx> ok
<shawarma> LaserJock: I can throw the build logs from an amd64 and an i386 pbuilder your way so that you can see that it builds.
<LaserJock> shawarma: could you just email me?
<shawarma> LaserJock: The patch? 
<shawarma> LaserJock: I'm not even sure I've got your e-mail.
<Adri2000> crimsun: the only ubuntu change in oo2c "Added amd64 to the list of 64bit archs in debian/rules" and it seems to be this line (from debian): "ifneq (,$(filter $(DEB_HOST_ARCH),alpha amd64 ia64 sparc64 s390x ppc64))", amd64 is here
<mr_pouit> could a motu sponsor an upload to -proposed ? (Bug 72052, ACKd my 2 motu ;)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 72052 in pouetchess "MOTU SRU proposal" [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72052
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: built fine?
<fernando> hi all
<CypherBIOS> fernando: hi
<shawarma> What does it mean if a merge is marked red on merges.ubuntu.com ?
<Burgwork> shawarma: in the updated merges section?
<shawarma> Burgwork: No, "outstanding merges".
<shawarma> Burgwork: The top one.
<Burgwork> new upstream version, judging from the evidence
<ajmitch> not necessarily
<ajmitch> I think it's to do with the priority
<Burgwork> ajmitch: looking at the colours in the main and universe sections, they are only coloured red when there is a new upstream version
<shawarma> It's just wierd that that's the only red one.
<ajmitch> and there are numerous other packages with new upstream versions that are green
* vyoman is away: Gone away for now.
<Burgwork> ajmitch: ah, you are right, as per usual
<shawarma> ...on the universe merges anyway.
<Burgwork> I drew incorrect conclusions due to lack of consideration to the entire data set
<PriceChild> #2
* vyoman is back.
<geser> what's the difference between "Outstanding Merges" and "Updated Merges"?
<tenshu> hey i think launchpad is wrong : Feisty (Frozen)
<Burgwork> tenshu: nope, it is frozen for Herd 1 release
<tenshu> ok
<shawarma> geser: I think updated merges is stuff that's already been merged once in this release cycle.
<geser> that would make sense
* joejaxx makes a ruckus
<joejaxx> \o/
<joejaxx> _o/
<joejaxx> \o_
<joejaxx> _o_
<joejaxx> \o/
<joejaxx> </ruckus>
<joejaxx> what is everyone up to?
<somerville32> Working on stuff :)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> yeah me too
<joejaxx> i am installing ubuntu on an old world mac
<joejaxx> seems that only breezy works
<joejaxx> so i will have to upgrade from that
<somerville32> :] 
<joejaxx> somerville32: yeah i just have to start over from 5 hours of work on it
<joejaxx> to wipe the drive and format as hfs and not hfs+
<somerville32> Sounds like a good time, haha
<somerville32> :] 
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> :)
* vyoman is away: Gone away for now.
<joejaxx> vyoman: you might want to disable that
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> its LaserJock ! :D
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i had to wipe the whole drive
<joejaxx> and reformat it as hfs and not hfs+
<LaserJock> heh, I'm wiping my drive right now too
<LaserJock> lot of that going on lately ;-)
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> uh oh
<joejaxx> hold bbl
<joejaxx> ok i am back
<LaserJock> wow, what a week
<LaserJock> my Ubuntu hard drive just died on my home desktop
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I should us another computer ever again
<LaserJock> :-)
<Burgwork> LaserJock: you are having all the luck
<LaserJock> not just me though
<LaserJock> seems like lots of people in the last few days have had drives dying, etc.
<LaserJock> to bad about this drive though, 120GB and I never used more then 40GB
<LaserJock> what a waste
<jdong> the fun just don't stop
<LaserJock> hmm, so now I need to fix my MBR
<LaserJock> can I do that via the live cd?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yes.
<LaserJock> Burgwork: well, it died while I was trying to install Fedora Core 6 so I guess I deserved it
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I was going to tell you how, but I changed my mind after your last sentence.
<LaserJock> bah
* Fujitsu watches the impending doom in Western Australia.
<LaserJock> it didn't *work*
<LaserJock> so I don't think you should hold it against me
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> the fun just don't stop
<LaserJock>  fdisk /mbr ?
<jdong> that's MS-DOS and 98, buddy
<jdong> reinstall grub to your MBR
<jdong> (and I hope you aren't using dos or 98... lol)
<jdong> root (hdA,B)
<shawarma> Hmm... has anyone looked at the carpaltunnel merge?
<jdong> setup (hdA)
<LaserJock> jdong: but do I need grub if it's just Windows?
<jdong> oh nvm
<jdong> what version of Windows
<LaserJock> XP
<jdong> you need to boot into recovery console
<jdong> once you get a command prompt do a fixmbr C:
<jdong> and a fixboot C: just to be safe
<jdong> and you're set
<LaserJock> how do I boot into recovery console though?
<jdong> windows XP CD
<LaserJock> like I have one
<LaserJock> stupid HP
<jdong> press 'r' when it presents you with the install options
<jdong> well
<jdong> err
<LaserJock> hmm, let me see, I might have a recovery disk
<jdong> *sigh*
<jdong> actually
<jdong> you can use mbr
<jdong> (the debian/ubuntu package)
<jdong> boot onto a deb/buntu livecd
<jdong> and install mbr from universe
<jdong> and man installmbr
<Fujitsu> shawarma: It's mine, and isn't a merge.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: No, that's what I thought.
<jdong> sheesh -motu has been becoming I-borked-my-windows-please-help-me land :D
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Can you perhaps explain why there's even an Ubuntu revison at all?
* jdong reminisces his days as DSLReport's in-house Windows expert....
<shawarma> Fujitsu: debdiff tells me that the only difference between 0.0.9ubuntu2 and 0.0.9-0.1 is a changelog entry.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Which seems quite superfluous.
<Fujitsu> shawarma: There were Ubuntu changes in the distant past, which were 0.0.9ubuntu1, or something like that. Debian had an NMU, making it 0.0.9-0.1. 0.0.9ubuntu1 > 0.0.9-0.1, so 0.0.9ubuntu2 is in fact a fake sync of 0.0.9-0.1.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Oh, that *almost* makes sense. :-)
<shawarma> Fujitsu: I'll leave that one alone.
<Fujitsu> There are a couple of other similar ones of mine there.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Ok. I just didn't recognize your real name. I skip all the merges with familiar names on them.
<LaserJock> jdong: sorry for the support questions
<LaserJock> ;-)
<shawarma> Fujitsu: I just take the ones with names on them I don't recognize and hence don't expect to do the merges. Apparantly someone has done most of mine already. :-)
<jdong> LaserJock: naw, it still brings back half-pleasant memories of my old nerdier self :)
<LaserJock> I found my recovery CDs but the won't work because I changed the motherboard and they say I don't have an HP computer anymore
<LaserJock> man I love MS >:(
<jdong> LaserJock: just use installmbr like I said :)
<LaserJock> yeah, thanks for that
<LaserJock> Ubuntu to the rescue
<jdong> because the other alternative would be burning a mountain of setup diskettes
<jdong> and I'd rather spare you that excitement
<LaserJock> btw, turns out the annoying "dying fan" sound was really a "dying hard drive" sound
<LaserJock> yeah, I've done that method before
<LaserJock> I don't even have a floppy drive to write them too
<jdong> LaserJock: yeah, ain't that lovely... especially on modern SATA systems with no floppy drives
<crimsun> bug 74109
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74109 in firefox "?" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74109
<crimsun> what the crud kind of title is that?
<ajmitch> one that needs a pony
<jdong> crimsun: an empty question to foreshadow an empty bug report?
<shawarma> crimsun: The same kind as the actual description.
<ajmitch> crimsun: it mentions automatix, it must be rejected
<jdong> automatix no estas supporto officialo
<jdong> there we go, closed rejected, done :D
<shawarma> suportado
<shawarma> officialmente
<jdong> close enough
<shawarma> supongo. :-)
<jdong> I can make wise cracks to the taco bell employees fine... my spanish is competent :D
<shawarma> crimsun: I took the liberty of responding.
<jdong> pfft I liked my response better :)
<jdong> por more cracko aussi essayez EasyUbuntu ou LinuxMint
<shawarma> Totally.
<crimsun> Adri2000: it makes sense to discard the delta by merging, then readding if necessary. MoM didn't have fun with that one, thus necessitating a sync.
<ajmitch> jdong: how many languages id you mix into that sentence?
<shawarma> ajmitch: *Way* too many.
<jdong> ajmitch: I don't know :D
<jdong> foreign languages weren't my forte.....
<shawarma> jdong: You lost me at "aussi essayez".
<ajmitch> I can tell :)
<ajmitch> I think that was meant to be french
<Toadstool> heya everybody!
<ajmitch> hey Toadstool 
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch 
<jdong> pfft ajmitch honestly I have no idea what language(s) that was :D
<shawarma> ajmitch: Yes, that's the only thing I could guess. What it actually meant was beyond me.
<ajmitch> "for more crack try easyubuntu or linux mint"
<shawarma> jdong: *G* Ja, jeg kunne ogs bare tale dansk. Det ville da gre forvirringen total.
* shawarma is just adding a bit of Danish to the language soup
<jdong> sharms: raise local.Error, "No comprende...."
<jdong> shawarma ^^
<jdong> but seriously back to work
<shawarma> jdong: Indeed.
<Toadstool> uhuh, got to go :/ this was my 5 "i'm not dead, what's going on in the MOTU world" minutes..
<ajmitch> ah, good to still see you round, Toadstool 
<Toadstool> :)
<Toadstool> if anyone wants to take care of my pending merges/syncs, I don't think I will have time to do that in the next two weeks :(
<ajmitch> alright, will look after them
<ajmitch> I didn't see many of yours on the list
<Toadstool> thanks a lot
<Toadstool> hmm gnomebaker maybe ?
<jdong> Fujitsu: whatever happened to azureus :D
<ajmitch> that, usbmount & mini-dinstall
<Toadstool> last time i checked usbmount & mini-dinstall were ok, just a NMU version issue
<Toadstool> anyway, see you everybody
<Fujitsu> jdong: A good question... I've been busy with work lately, and with another SRU or two. I'll aim to get it uploaded to dapper-proposed this afternoon.
<shawarma> Is there a deadline in two weeks I haven't noticed?
<Fujitsu> shawarma: No.
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Ok. didn't think so.
<jdong> Fujitsu: ah, ok, just checking, making sure you didn't forget
<shawarma> I need a sponsor for a merge: http://www.linux2go.dk/feisty-merges/courier-authlib-merge.patch   Build logs can be found here: http://www.linux2go.dk/feisty-merges/courier-authlib
<crimsun> are you filing bugs against the source package then subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<crimsun> that would be preferable (and is generally more reliable)
<shawarma> crimsun: Oh, ok.
<shawarma> crimsun: I'll do that then.
<crimsun> ok, no need to do it for this one (courier-authlib)
<shawarma> crimsun: Ok. Thanks.
<shawarma> crimsun: Is there anything in particular I should put in the merge bug reports?
<crimsun> yes, please follow the merge policy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-August/000182.html
<shawarma> crimsun: I've been putting that in the changelog from the very beginning. Should I just put the changelog entry in the bug report and attach a debdiff.
<shawarma> ?
<crimsun> just attaching a debdiff will suffice
<shawarma> crimsun: ..so nothing in particular in the bug report? That's just fine.
<crimsun> as long as you['ve]  [been]  attach[ing]  the necessary info, that's fine
<shawarma> *G* Ok.
<shawarma> Does anyone know who Laurent Bigonville is?
<shawarma> He did the last merge of fam and I've got a question..
<shawarma> Oh dear
<joejaxx> hey i have a funny question
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i have to upgrade to dapper then to edgy correct? from breezy?
<shawarma> It's 4AM here. I've got funny answers.
<joejaxx> shawarma: lol!
<shawarma> joejaxx: Yes. That's the supported upgrade path.
<joejaxx> ah ok
<joejaxx> that should be interesting on this 233MHz powerbook
<shawarma> joejaxx: It might work directly to edgy, but it's not been thoroughly tested.
<joejaxx> yeah i do not want to try it
<joejaxx> lol
<shawarma> joejaxx: Yes. You should find something else to do while it does its magic.
<joejaxx> it already took forerver to get breezy on this old world mac
<joejaxx> shawarma: yeap :)
<shawarma> joejaxx: Upgrading hasn't got any snappier since then.
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> i whould be upgrading off the cd
<joejaxx> since it does not have an airport card
<joejaxx> and the card it does have is the fun broadcom haha
<joejaxx> wow
<joejaxx> breezy
<joejaxx> LOL!
<shawarma> joejaxx: Swell.. All you need is an nVidia graphics card that's not supported by the free driver.
<joejaxx> shawarma: haha :P
<joejaxx> i think this is an ati something
<shawarma> joejaxx: Even worse.
<joejaxx> ATI Rage LT Pro
<jdong> hey at least that works very well with the radeon and ati drivers
<jdong> and besides, there's good news....
<joejaxx> yeah
<jdong> I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance
<joejaxx> LOL!
<joejaxx> wait
<joejaxx> why is this thing saying a new kernel was installed
<joejaxx> ?
<joejaxx> this is a fresh install
<joejaxx> lol
<shawarma> joejaxx: I don't know how it works on a mac, but on i386 I think it starts out with -386 but upgrades to -686 at some point.
<joejaxx> oh
<shawarma> joejaxx: Maybe it's something along those lines.
<joejaxx> well i am glad i copied over the new kernel then lol
<joejaxx> i am booting Ubuntu from os9
<shawarma> joejaxx: sounds exotic.
<joejaxx> yeah lol
<joejaxx> hmmm
<joejaxx> shawarma: the powerbook boots up into os9 then i run a program called bootx which runs the linux kernel
<crimsun> yay, the "zomgeatthesourceuploadboog" rears its head again
* crimsun reuploads courier-authlib
<joejaxx> crimsun: lol!
<joejaxx> crimsun: are you having fun?
<shawarma> crimsun: huh?
<crimsun> shawarma: every once in a while, the upload processor errors out attempting to find a signature on my source.changes
<crimsun> I uploaded courier-authlib_0.58-5ubuntu1_source.changes at 9:57 PM localtime and noticed that I didn't receive an ACCEPT
<crimsun> having experienced this bug for a couple Ubuntu release cycles now, I had a good idea it was the same bug and just punted it back at upload.uc
<crimsun> voila, received an ACCEPT 3 minutes ago
<shawarma> crimsun: Oh, ok. I thought I messed up somehow.
<shawarma> What you say? It's not all about me?
<shawarma> Oh, well.
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> shawarma: :)
<LaserJock> darn I can't get install-mbr to work
<joejaxx> hmm
<shawarma> LaserJock:  Maybe you just need to put the you-know-what you-know-where if you catch my drift..
<LaserJock> maybe I'll just buy a seagate from newegg and not use my computer until it arrives
<LaserJock> shawarma: heh
<shawarma> LaserJock: Or maybe I just need to get some sleep.
<shawarma> LaserJock: either way works for me.
<LaserJock> shawarma: what time is it there?
<shawarma> LaserJock: irssi says 4:33. That looks about accurate.
<shawarma> LaserJock: am, of course.
<LaserJock> shesh
<LaserJock> no wonder you're a little nutty
<LaserJock> ;-)
<joejaxx> bahumbug
<joejaxx> breezy is not upgrading from the cd
<shawarma> I think I'll go to bed before I embarass myself any further.
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> Goodnight shawarma :)
<shawarma> goodnight, guys. I'm on a wild merging spree now, so I'll be back tomorrow. See you all then.
<joejaxx> LaserJock: whould packages being keep back stop breezy from upgraidng?
<joejaxx> Goodnight shawarma 
<joejaxx> upgrading*
<LaserJock> shawarma: cya
<LaserJock> joejaxx: how do you mean?
<joejaxx> well i did sudo apt-cdrom add
<joejaxx> and sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<joejaxx> and it just says cpp and cpp-4.0 are going to be held back
<shawarma> joejaxx: try apt-get install cpp-4.0 and see what happens. Mostly that explains why it wanted to hold them back in the first place.
<joejaxx> it has unmet dependencies
* shawarma wanders off
<LaserJock> so what happens when you dist-upgrade
<joejaxx> it says those packages are being held back
<joejaxx> cpp and cpp-4.0
<crimsun> shawarma: please, please, please don't _ever_ assign to ubuntu-archive
<crimsun> shawarma: they will shoot you in the face.
<joejaxx> hmmmm
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, the do seem to get weirded out when you do that ;-)
<LaserJock> *they
<LaserJock> crimsun: umm, so should I unassign ubuntu-archive from shawarma's bugs?
<LaserJock> or can I even?
<jdong> shawarma: yeah I got a yelling about that too :D
<LaserJock> jdong: geeze, I just got my mbr fixed
<jdong> LaserJock: whew, that took a while!
<LaserJock> well, took a break here and there
<jorgp> nice work LaserJock 
<LaserJock> but install-mbr didn't work
<LaserJock> but I was able to is it to put the mbr on a floppy disk
<LaserJock> which got me to Windows
<LaserJock> then I spent a while searching around for what exactly I needed
<LaserJock> turned out a windows 98 boot disk worked fine
<jorgp> LaserJock, have you tried to create a grub boot floppy?
<LaserJock> well, I didn't want grub right now
<jdong> jorgp: it's a pure windows box
<jdong> no grub
<jdong> and installing grub on ntfs is less than fun
<jdong> though feasible
<LaserJock> my linux drive died and left a messed up grub
<LaserJock> so the easiest way to still use the computer until a new drive arrives is to fix the mbr and used the dreaded Windows XP
<orphean> you can setup NTLOADER to boot into linux if grub worries you
<LaserJock> I sure wish that when you bought a computer they actually gave you a Windows XP CD
<LaserJock> orphean: nah, it's just temporary until my new disk gets here
<LaserJock> I spotted a 160GB Barracuda on newegg for $56.99
<jdong> orphean: yeah, that's what I used to do
<jdong> orphean: mainly because once in a while windows would find the compelling need to reassert its dominance over the mbr....
<orphean> haha :)
<LaserJock> so I thought I had 2 fans dying
<LaserJock> turns out 1 was a hard drive, and the other is the fan on my nvidia card
<jorgp> ah, I thought that is was a duel boot disk
<LaserJock> heh, it *was*
<LaserJock> until I went to wipe the disk today to do a fresh install and it just started throwing IO errors
<jdong> jorgp: is that what happens when you put RMS with a disk with nvidia.ko on it?
<jorgp> no idea, dont have an nvidia card
<LaserJock> hehe
<orphean> RMS has a dagger that's +9 against nvidia.ko
<DarkMageZ> orphean, don't forget it has +8 against fglrx.ko :)
<orphean> hehe and RMS rolls 20s ;)
<LaserJock> so why does nvidia get +9 and fglrx +*8 ?
<orphean> ESR ninjaed the +9
<jdong> it's easier to do damage against AIGLX?
<LaserJock> hmm, so I noticed some interesting blog behavior
<jdong> like jono seems to trump everyone else's post order?
<LaserJock> I was looking at the planets for fedora, opensuse, and ubuntu
<LaserJock> and the only one tied to the US (fedora) has the most non-English posts
<joejaxx> LaserJock: do you know what package holds the drivers for broadcom?
<LaserJock> no
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> because i am going to need it for this breezy install
<joejaxx> because it makes no sense to install ndiswrapper when i am upgrading to dapper
<LaserJock> dude, I have no idea what you're doing
<jorgp> i have an very old ati radeon card
<joejaxx> LaserJock: i want to upgrade from breezy to dapper
<LaserJock> geeze, you have something running breezy? ;-)
<LaserJock> I haven't run breezy in about a year
<joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah
<joejaxx> only breezy runs on oldworlds
<LaserJock> interesting
<joejaxx> so i need the broadcom drivers
<jorgp> either one of you having any issues with edgy?
<joejaxx> jorgp: of course :)
<LaserJock> no
<jorgp> i have had firefox crash 2 times already
<jorgp> today
<joejaxx> :)
<jorgp> on my gentoo machine, that is why I switched it back to ff 1.5
<jorgp> i've been seriously been thinging about forward porting ff 1.5 from dapper
<joejaxx> if i change the version of a package to lets say from 9.3-1 to 9.3-1ubuntu1
<joejaxx> should i change the source folder label as well?
<joejaxx> from 9.3-1?
<lifeless> joejaxx: no
<minghua> good evening
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> Evening
<sladen> joejaxx: no.  the source folder is the number of the *upstream* package
<sladen> joejaxx: so, 9.3
<sladen> joejaxx: -1 is the debian version 
<sladen> joejaxx: ubuntu1 is the ubuntu version
<Simon80> grrr... I'm confused about revu
<crimsun> ?
<Simon80> I did a proper dput yesterday, but I hadn't asked to get on the revu keyring... and now I'm trying to upload the same package version, only I've unbroken something, so I do want to upload... and it's giving me the old Error 553 Could not create file
<Simon80> but just now I also did a dput *changes, without the revu in place
<Simon80> so I'm not sure which of the 2 uploads is giving me grief
<crimsun> are you in the universe contributors list now with the keyring synced?
<Simon80> hmm
<crimsun> (an admin will need to verify and remove your upload if necessary)
<ajmitch> knowing what the upload is would help
<Simon80> how can I check that it's synced properly
<Simon80> oh, yeah, stepmania, stepmania-data
<ajmitch> upload source-only debs, please
<Simon80> yeah, that was a mistake too?
<ajmitch> quite
<ajmitch> it doesn't clean up after binary uploads still
<Simon80> well, I was already on top of that
<ajmitch> so further uploads, even of a source-only package, will break
<Simon80> I mean, like, my next upload was gonna be source
<Simon80> ah, ok
<ajmitch> I've removed them all
<Simon80> I'm in the list on launchpad, but I have no idea about revu... I did send a message today to the proper address, and got a response, so I should be on the keyring
<ajmitch> yes, I saw that
<Simon80> where? the email?
<ajmitch> yes
<Simon80> the reason I uploaded a binary, by the way, is cause pbuilder outputs only the i386 changes file, damn thing, lol
<ajmitch> then don't upload that
<ajmitch> upload the source.changes
<Simon80> yep, I've learned my lesson
<Simon80> I run debuild -S -sa
<crimsun> nice, I'm getting support requests from individuals about all sorts of issues
<ajmitch> lucky you
<ajmitch> I never seem to get any of those
<ajmitch> nor do I get any of the mentoring requests that laserjock does
<Simon80> so um, one of my package uploads showed up, the other one didn't
<ajmitch> no, they're both listed
<Simon80> stepmania is there, stepmania-data seems not to be
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> there we go
<Simon80> err, should I be targetting feisty instead of edgy?
* crimsun is saved by https://answers.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addticket
<Simon80> and with regards to http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/stepmania-0612020340/linda
<Simon80> should I just get rid of that then?
<Simon80> in my changelog?
<Simon80> I have a few cvs versions, then I downgraded to 3.9 for this upload
<sivang> hi my fellow motus
<ajmitch> Simon80: yes, it probably would be a good idea to
<ajmitch> hello sivang 
<sivang> hi ajmitch , how you been doing? has lady luck been kind to you lately? :)
* StevenK sends most of the Ubuntu patch for a package to the Debian maintainer, and kicks him for maintaining it so crappily.
<Simon80> what about the dist, is doing s/edgy/feisty for the one entry that will be left in my changelog what I need to do?
<StevenK> (In other news, diff-mode in Emacs rocks. :-)
<Simon80> stevenk: gvimdiff :D
<StevenK> Simon80: Meh, I say, meh.
<ajmitch> sivang: hm, average
<gauteh> hey. would i be able to upgrade to feisty by adding the fesity repos to sources.list and do a dist upgrade?
<sivang> ajmitch: how's the extended n-m work going?
<ajmitch> n-a, you mean
* sivang sometimes feels he and lady luck could use some counceling :-p
* ajmitch will not touch n-m
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, you're off that job? not interested anymore?
<Simon80> gauteh: that would have some sort of upgrading effect
<Simon80> afaik that's how to do it, but someone may have some sort of better way
<ajmitch> sivang: no, I never touched n-m at all
<somerville32> Does multiverse take non-source packages?
* StevenK has learnt more about n-m than he wished to find out.
<sivang> ajmitch: ah, so what are you going to touch part of your planned stuff for network authenticatoin ?
<StevenK> sivang: Why would he need to? If the hooks are placed under /etc/network, it should work for everything.
<StevenK> Note the should. :-)
<ajmitch> StevenK: that's what the samba man said
<Simon80> somerville32: you probably don't do it that way, you'd have a source package with binaries in it
<ajmitch> which consisted of a few lines of shell script in suse to tell winbindd to go into offline mode
<StevenK> Hrm. Which Samba man?
* ajmitch cannot say
<ajmitch> he wasn't officially at UDS :)
<StevenK> Oh, right.
* StevenK wishes he was at UDS, officially, or unofficially.
<Simon80> so um, my changelog
<Simon80> should I include (Closes: #200715)? if it ever gets into debian, it'll close 200715
<StevenK> Your changelog entry probably won't.
<StevenK> ajmitch: I wonder if you're planning on being around in roughly an hour.
<ajmitch> I may be
<ajmitch> do you have something I need to upload?
<Simon80> no, I'm just asking for your opinion so I don't have to upload more than twice
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ah. wlassistant to -updates, but I'm stuck on a Windows box at my mothers house. :-(
<ajmitch> unfortunate
<ajmitch> Simon80: no, don't put it in there
<Simon80> ok
<ajmitch> if it gets uploaded to debian, it'll need a debian changelog entry anyway
<StevenK> Esp. given the background is my sisters mug, which is staring at me.
<ajmitch> heh
<Simon80> ajmitch: -D feisty?
<ajmitch> yes, feisty in the changelog
<ajmitch> StevenK: 7 days is up?
<StevenK> ajmitch: When do we count from?
<ajmitch> from the latest package upload to -proposed
<ajmitch> I *think*
<StevenK> In that case, I'll count from Colin's message in the bug.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I thought you made another upload
<StevenK> I was pondering making one.
<StevenK> sflaw and I decided that I didn't really need to.
<ajmitch> since you said on the 28th that it had landed in -proposed, I thought another one had been uploaded
<ajmitch> I presume that the 7 days are up now
<StevenK> Colin's message was on the 23rd of November.
<StevenK> So yes. :-)
<StevenK> The landed in -proposed was in response to Simon saying "Set the bug to Fix Commited" when the package is accepted.
<ajmitch> ok, are you able to give me a debdiff?
<StevenK> Not yet, since I'm not at home.
<ajmitch> ok, I thought you may have had ssh access to home :)
<StevenK> ajmitch: The link I'm on is just fast enough for IRC. If I try anything quick, the link goes ... wonky.
<StevenK> The link here, not my home DSL.
<ajmitch> ah, sounds like when I visit my parents
<StevenK> Heh
<ajmitch> since they see no reason for DSL
<StevenK> Typical. :-)
* StevenK runs off to do stuff and then head home.
<sivang> ajmitch: I might need a sponsoring for dhcdbd
<ajmitch> sivang: why?
<sivang> ajmitch: if you'll be here for a little while
<sivang> ajmitch: I'm merging it, and normally slomo sponsors me but he's away for the weekend
<ajmitch> I see that slomo was last to touch it
<sivang> ajmitch: indeed, and I've been recently taking merges from him (ofcourse with his encouragement and consent)
<sivang> ajmitch: I already did n-m and libnotify
<palski> how about packages which are not anymore in debian, should those be removed from ubuntu also? Especially if the package doesn't work at all 
<ajmitch> palski: yes
<ajmitch> removals from debian generally get processed at some point
<Simon80> E: stepmania_3.9-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<Simon80> why!!!!!!!???????????
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I give up
<Simon80> :D
<palski> ajmitch: there is a package called danpei and it segfaults always when you try to run it. 
<palski> and i cannot find it in packages.debian.org
<fernando> moin all
<ajmitch> then it may not have been imported from debian
<ajmitch> have you filed a bug about it?
<palski> ajmitch: there is only one ubuntu specific entry in debian/changelog so I think it is imported from debian? I havent filed a bug report bug somebody has bug #42184
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42184 in danpei "danpei segfaults immediately when run" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42184
<ajmitch> it could have been a third-party import
<Simon80> ajmitch, is there anything to say about my lintian complaint? 
<ajmitch> not really
<ajmitch> the host that runs revu only has dapper
<Simon80> ahh
<Simon80> no wonder
<Simon80> so it was a fluke then
<Simon80> but that's horrible, cause every single package on there says needs work cause of that
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> is that such a problem?
<ajmitch> why is it horrible?
<ajmitch> 'needs work' is based on the number of advocates, not the lintian status
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> ok
<Simon80> well then
<Simon80> do I just wait then?
<Simon80> first time :D
<ajmitch> yes, though asking people to review it if they have time can be helpful
<StevenK> ajmitch: Still around?
<ajmitch> sorta
<StevenK> Do you want to leave the uploading until later, then?
<ajmitch> I think I'm still awake
<ajmitch> not quite sure
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> ajmitch: Would you like a debdiff against 0ubuntu3 or 0ubuntu3.1?
<ajmitch> against 0ubuntu3.1, I guess
<ajmitch> since that's what I have unpacked
<StevenK> Hah, it's not even 1K
<StevenK> ajmitch: Mail?
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> I'd expect it to only be a new changelog entry
<StevenK> Correct.
<ajmitch> ugly package
<ajmitch> needing all these headers installed just for the clean target
<ajmitch> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> done
<StevenK> ajmitch: Thanks so much.
<ajmitch> no problem
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<Simon80> ........wrt to your reply, feel free to review my package if you have time ;)
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: stay where you are, please
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: why?
<ajmitch> instead of disconnecting all the time
<ajmitch> sigh, 78 open samba bugs
<ajmitch> many of them old
<ajmitch> this will take awhile to do some bug triage on
<ajmitch> hah
<shawarma> crimsun: around?
<shawarma> Maybe someone else can answer: I filed a few sync requests last night and assigned the bugs to ubuntu-archive, but according to crimsun "they'll shoot me in the face" if I do that..
<Hobbsee> shawarma: they will.  use subscribe, not assign
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Oh!
<ajmitch> if you're lucky, you'll get away with a bullet in the kneecaps instead
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Right, ok. I'll fix that right away.
<shawarma> What difference does it actually make?
<ajmitch> it makes a difference for filtering what bugs they see
<shawarma> Ok.. I'll make a note of it on the wiki.
<ajmitch> "To request a sync, [WWW]  file a bug in Launchpad with the above information, and subscribe the ubuntu-archive team to the bug. This team will process the request and close the bug when it is complete."
<ajmitch> it's already noted on the correct page (DeveloperResources)
<shawarma> ajmitch: I know. However, that assigning them instead of subscribing them could have lethal consequences is not duly noted.
<shawarma> ajmitch: I think it's an easy mistake to make.
* Fujitsu made that mistake once upon a time, and then decided it was inadvisable as a member of ubuntu-archive lives < 20km from me ;-)
<shawarma> By the way: While I was going through the merges last night I just skipped all the ones that were done by people I know to be active. Do you guys do that as well? 
<Fujitsu> Pretty much what I did during Edgy, yes.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Muahaha
<shawarma> Fujitsu: Ok.
<geser> shawarma: until you are a MOTU your sync request need an ACK from a MOTU
<shawarma> geser: Really? Sheesh.
<shawarma> Then maybe someone could look that the syncs in this list https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/shawarma/+reportedbugs ?
<geser> yes (at least if nothing has changed), subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors instead of ubuntu-archive
<shawarma> There's only 6 of them.
<shawarma> For crying out loud! I just..
<shawarma> ..ah well.
<shawarma> Ok, I'll change it.
<shawarma> again
<shawarma> ..
<geser> the person doing the ACK will then subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Hobbsee> shawarma: you wrote some specs, and talked about them on ubuntu-devel?
<shawarma> Hobbsee: Not recently, but yes.
<Hobbsee> shawarma: well, the talking about them was recent.  as for the "download a partial cd" stuff - that's done with rsync
<shawarma> Garh....
<shawarma> Hobbsee: That wasn't me.
<Hobbsee> oh right
<shawarma> I can't unsubscribe ubuntu-archive.
<shawarma> Now they'll probably shoot me in the face anyway.
<StevenK> Yes, I love how you can't unsubscribe people from bugs.
<Hobbsee> you cant?
<gnomefreak> StevenK: yes you can
<shawarma> gnomefreak: Explain how.
<gnomefreak> shawarma: go to the unsubscribe someone
<shawarma> gnomefreak: which is where?
<Hobbsee> left hand pannel
<gnomefreak> shawarma: on the left hand side of the page above subscribe
<Fujitsu> You can't unsubscribe somebody else, can you?
<Hobbsee> s/pannel/panel/
<StevenK> That's "Unsubscribe"
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: yes
<StevenK> With unsubscribes *yourself*
<Fujitsu> You can unsubscribe teams you're a member of, I know...
<StevenK> s/With/Which/
* StevenK tries to use the mouse to drag the cat away from the monitor.
<gnomefreak> StevenK: than all that is subscribed it people or teams that you are not on. but if you add someone you should beable to unsubscribe them
* ajmitch imagines what the dog would be like around the computers
<Hobbsee> the dog is just crazy anyway
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: annoying most of time for me atleast
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: quite
* gnomefreak finds it hard to type with dog on lap
* Hobbsee doesnt have her fish on her lap, fortunately
<StevenK> Hobbsee: He's not crazy. He just has ADD. :-P
<Hobbsee> and that's any different?
<StevenK> Indeed it is.
<StevenK> A mental disorder such as shizophernia is very different.
<Hobbsee> true
* StevenK tries to spell.
<shawarma> ADD == Advanced Dungeons and Dragons?
<ajmitch> ADD == likes shiny things, etc
<ajmitch> reminds me of someone we know
<StevenK> Think of George Bush.
<StevenK> "Most of our exp.... Oh look, a kitty."
<StevenK> It expands to Attention Deficit Disorder.
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: is that aimed at me?
<ajmitch> no
* Hobbsee notes that she likes shiny things
<Hobbsee> hence the question
<ajmitch> though it could
<Hobbsee> nah...
* ajmitch decides to go & sleep
<Lathiat> spun out
<Lathiat> i was doing a few days of feisty upgrades and in the middle of it my left screne just got corrupted
<Lathiat> permanantly
<Lathiat> well until a drop to console and back
* Lathiat wonders wtf did that
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> I saw that a couple of days ago, but assumed it was due to testing some stuff with the nouveau driver
<Lathiat>  * Setting up console font and keymap...                                 [ OK ]  
<ajmitch> & making it crash repeatedly
<Lathiat> is my best guess
<Lathiat> (Setting up console-setup (1.13ubuntu3) ...
<Lathiat> yep
<Lathiat> thats it
<Lathiat> lathiat@chiana:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/console-setup start
<Lathiat> causes it
<StevenK> Now run it with sh -x to see what command.
<gnomefreak> universe/multiverse isnt frozen right?
<gnomefreak> Lathiat: that happened to me also dropping to tty and back to X fixed it
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: The entire archive is frozen, but universe/multiverse uploads can be let through without extra approval.
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: im waiting for one that was uploaded wed. or thursday
<gnomefreak> i was just wondering if the reason it hasnt hit yet was it was frozen
<shawarma> Is anyone here involved in the *TeX* packages?
<StevenK> I occasionally write LaTeX, does that count?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: did you get an accepted mail for it?
<shawarma> StevenK: Hardly. :-)
<StevenK> shawarma: :-P
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: no i didnt upload it mvo did
<shawarma> StevenK: I'll just have to wait until slomo shows up.
<Hobbsee> ah
* Hobbsee thought you should still get an accepted mail
<gnomefreak> i havent seen it if you mean in feisty-changes
<Adri2000> hi :)
<Hobbsee> that too
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: homebank built fine?
<asabil> hi all
<asabil> can I request a package please ?
<rmjb> asabil: you can add new packaging candidates to this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates
<asabil> hmm, its not an easy package
<asabil> its ueagle-atm
<rmjb> is it in debian?
<asabil> don't knoe
<asabil> know
<bhale> packages.debian.org
<asabil> basically this package is the one stopping many many people from using ubuntu
<rmjb> it looks like some sort of driver that interacts with the kernel somehow?
<asabil> nop
<asabil> yes, it is a driver
<asabil> it's the new version of eagle-usb
<asabil> which is currently broken in edgy and dapper
<asabil> and it is not on debian :/
<rmjb> asabil: does it build and install find in edgy/dapper?
<rmjb> find = fine
<asabil> rmjb, yes
<asabil> I don't have the modem myself, but I managed to guide my brother to get it installed
<asabil> it worked without any glitches
<asabil> but still he is frustrated when I ask him to open a terminal
<rmjb> what version did you use?
<asabil> latest
<asabil> 1.3 iirc
<rmjb> I'm not a pro packager by any means, but I can give it a shot for you. Email me @ rmjb@mail.com so I have your contact when I get a chance to look at it
<asabil> ok
<asabil> done
<Adri2000> where should I put a dh_iconcache in a debhelper debian/rules?
<rmjb> asabil: I'll let you know when I tackle it... probably by tomorrow, busy with Ubuntu Open Week sessions today
<asabil> take your time, I am not in ahurry
<asabil> thanks very much
<Hobbsee> Adri2000: below dh_installmenu
<Hobbsee> and the like
<Adri2000> dh_installman debian/blobwars.6
<Adri2000>         dh_link
<Adri2000> between theses two lines?
<Hobbsee> after all the dh_install's is fine.  before the dh_deb or whatever it is
<Hobbsee> that's the installing of the man page, not the menu file
<Hobbsee> iirc it works below a certain point, instead of above a certain point
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: please, don't forget my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581 :)
<Adri2000> Hobbsee: okay, thanks
<Hobbsee> CypherBIOS: i'm going away soon, i probably wont get to see it for at least another week.  you probably want someone else to check that
<CypherBIOS> Hobbsee: ok, any suggestion who can do it?
<Hobbsee> a MOTU
<CypherBIOS> :)
<CypherBIOS> Please, can someone (with 10 minutes) review a package for me?
<CypherBIOS> here is the link gerenciador de pacotes para o KDE
<CypherBIOS> ops
<CypherBIOS> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3581
<CypherBIOS> :)
<outime> Hi guys, I'm searching some documentation for make my own distro derived of Kubuntu (dapper, of course). Any idea?
<rmjb> outime: joejaxx and LaserJock might be able to help you
<rmjb> if they're on
<outime> at least joejaxx yes, thanks
<_MMA_> joejaxx is more a Gnome/Fluxbox guy. LaserJock is the better person to ask.
<_MMA_> LaserJock works on Icthux.
<_MMA_> Kubuntu based.
<rmjb> you can also hope over to #icthux and ask those guys
<rmjb> hope = hop
<outime> Thanks to all :-)
<outime> but the channel doesn't exist
<outime> Maybe #ichthux :-)
<outime> yes, it's
<Adri2000> "Depends: python2.3 -> python2.4" < is this kind of ubuntu changes still needed?
<sivang> Adri2000: I think so, yes
<sivang> Adri2000: you might want to check out the python policy and use either pysupport or python-central
<Adri2000> sivang: this change was in ghextris 0.9.0-1.2 and in the changelog 0.9.0-1.2 there is "Remove explicit dependency on python2.3."
<Adri2000> err
<Adri2000> s/ghextris 0.9.0-1.2/ghextris 0.9.0-1.1ubuntu1/
<sivang> Adri2000: okay, so its probably using the new policy which doesn't or relieves the rquirement for a specific versioned dependency
<sivang> Adri2000: if you still have the versioned 2.3 dependency, just change it to 2.4
<sivang> that should stil work
<kalon34> QUESTION: Is there somewhere with the process to follow or can you describe it please ?
<sivang> kalon34: you mena the python policy changes?
<Adri2000> sivang: the debian non maintainer (it was a nmu :p) changed the B-D like that: s/python2.3/python/
<sivang> kalon34, Adri2000 : http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<kalon34> sorry, I though I were in ubuntu-classroom-chat ^^
<kalon34> but thanks for your good intention sivang. :)
<sivang> kalon34: :-D
<Adri2000> sivang: so I can request a sync for this package?
<Adri2000> (if it builds fine)
<sivang> Adri2000: if the only change was what you mentioned, and debian already include it (the dependency and python policy switch) I don't see a reason why not.
<Adri2000> ubuntu: s/python2.3/python2.4/ ; debian: s/python2.3/python/
<Adri2000> it's not really the same change
<sivang> Adri2000: and this is in the build-depends yes?
<sivang> (the only change)
<Adri2000> yep
<sivang> Adri2000: and the package built find in your fesity and installed and is up and working?
<Adri2000> sivang: no sorry, it's in the depends (not build)
<Adri2000> I'm going to launch the build
<sivang> Adri2000: see if it builds, and installs fine, if it does, then it's okay to request a sync
<Adri2000> ok, thanks for your help
<sivang> Adri2000: no problem, my plreasure.
<rmjb> sivang: can you okay a sync request I made? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<rmjb> since you're here
<sivang> rmjb: I cannot test it though, since I've never used dmraid
<rmjb> umm... if I refer you to a bug that people said this version works for them in edgy would that be okay?
<kalon34> sivang, as daniel holbach invites us, and I'm interessed by that, how I can join ubuntu-motu ?
<rmjb> this bug shows that the current package is outright broken, and the new version works (last 5 - 10 comments) https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/54246
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54246 in dmraid "DMRAID stopped to work in kernels > 2.6.15" [Medium,In progress]  
<sivang> kalon34: Well, you have to work on packages for a while, preferably on what interests you in universe,
<sivang> kalon34: then upload to REVU when doing merges, packaging new programs etc.
<sivang> kalon34: after you've worked with some folks as sponsors for a while, and feel confident enough to be able to work without supervision on universe, you propose yourself to the ubuntu-dev team
<sivang> kalon34: then, on TB meeting (technical board) you wlil be asked question, technical and other regarding your invovlement and your interest 
<sivang> kalon34: the TB members will then decide if to grant you upload access or not, if not they will tell you what they need to see more before they can approve you.
<sivang> kalon34: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewDeveloperProcess
<sivang> kalon34: actually not sure this is the latest document.
<kalon34> okay, thanks sivang :)
<sivang> kalon34: this is a specification to make this process better, could be an interesting read until it becomes ready - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpechttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpechttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
<sivang> hrm
<sivang> woops
<sivang> kalon34: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
<sivang> that's better
<rmjb> sivang: will the information I gave be enough for you to ack? if not can you recommend a motu to ack the sync request?
<sivang> kalon34: my pleasure, it encouraging to be asked such question from people around the community :)
<sivang> rmjb: I can actually request the sync myself, just a sec
<rmjb> ok
<kalon34> I'm contributing to bugsquad, support and french translations now (as kalon33 on launchpad, I had a login problem on freenode which gave me kalon34) but I've not programming skills, so I haven't what is needed for the MOTU, am I ?
<sivang> rmjb: so the issue is completely fixed in sid yes? what are the differences between our and sid's package?
<rmjb> sivang: right now it's a -Q option to modprobe, it just sliences messages
<sivang> kalon34: well, I think you require only minor programming skills for MOTU,
<sivang> rmjb: you mean, difference between ubuntu and sid? (debian)
<rmjb> kalon34: if you can install from source (./configure, make, make install) you can start on MOTU
<rmjb> sivang: sorry, sid is a new version
<rmjb> rc13
<rmjb> we're still on rc9
<sivang> kalon34: its mostly about attentions to details, and being able to work with source distributions, as well as knowledge of the different debian packaging schemes, policies etc.
<rmjb> which has an issue with kernels 2.6.16 an over
<kalon34> sivang : I already did that sometimes to get last versions of some apps.
<sivang> kalon34: so you can work as a MOTU ;)
<sivang> rmjb: okay, what you need to do as open a bug as a sync request, subscribe ubuntu-archive to it,
<sivang> rmjb: link the bug report that proves that dmraid is completely broken in ubuntu, and show the diffs from the debian/ folder
<kalon34> sivang : how to begin with hopeful ? I already subscribe to ubuntu-motu list.
<jdong> sivang: no, backports got dibs on those who want new versions :D
<rmjb> sivang: the sync request I linked to is not it?
<sivang> jdong: ?
<sivang> rmjb: hmm, let me look again, sorry
<sivang> jdong: or rather, huh? :)
<jdong> sivang: never mind :)
<rmjb> jdong: once the new dmraid gets into feisty I'll be hitting you up for a backport of it
<jdong> rmjb: oh lovely :)
<rmjb> because it's completely broken in edgy too
<sivang> kalon34: just work on packages, try being with merges and sync need be done to universe, use REVU to upload your created stuff, and have people review
<rmjb> I notice you're *very* active in the backporting
<jdong> rmjb: yeah, I run the normal show around there....
<jdong> the other backporters handle stuff outta my knowledge scope
<jdong> and ubuntu-archive has to put up with the floods of requests being approved :)
<jdong> hmm, 97 backports yesterday, 2 build failures
<jdong> not bad
<kalon34> sivang : thanks for using your time explaining it to me :)
* proppy hugs dholbach
<sivang> kalon34: no problem at all!
<bhale> jdong: not beagle, I hope
<jdong> bhale: -archive hasn't gottten around to that batch yet :D
<mr_pouit> jdong: you said you use a pbuilder hook to build with make -j3 instead of -j2. How do you do exactly ? (I tried several solutions and it doesn't work ^^)
<jdong> mr_pouit: no, I just either (1) mess with source packages (2) or set CONCURRENCY_LEVEL on packages that allow for it
<mr_pouit> jdong: oh, ok ;)
<jdong> setting MAKEFLAGS, as obvious as it sounds, doesn't work :)
<sivang> rmjb: you need to sub ubuntu-archive for that, and ask a sync on the last note
<jdong> though I vow that's a debhelper bug :)
<sivang> rmjb: if its for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dmraid/+bug/71980
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
* dholbach hugs proppy back
<mr_pouit> jdong: I even tried to create /etc/make.conf (as in gentoo ^^)
<jdong> LOL
<sivang> rmjb: try to find someone in ubuntu-dev who can actually test the new package, and proove it to work I think
<kalon34> sorry sivang, another question, how to find packages needed to be built and merged ?
<sivang> dholbach: what do you think?
<sivang> dholbach: I don't have raid nor never used it, so I can't know for sure the sync will work, how can we proceed in that case?
<dholbach> sivang: if you're really unsure, ask somebody to test it
<sivang> dholbach: well, it really looks good according to rmjb comments and work he has done
<rmjb> well from the bug I linked you (not the sync request) to actually use FakeRAID on edgy you'd have to have the new version... so I'm thinking no motu's or dev use fake raid... which is why it's been open for a while
<jdong> bhale: though I'm not sure how cjwatson will react to that backport... he's been insisting on using SRU a lot this time around
<sivang> dholbach: However, I'm usually uneasy to upload/ack stuff I can't test myself :)
<dholbach> right
<bhale> jdong: he already said that about beagle, it is a number of changesets
<bhale> over a few releases
<sivang> dholbach: how reasonable is it to sync to the new version, and then wait for bugs ? :)
<bhale> im a bad maintainer, i am not excited to look at making a patch
<rmjb> sivang: once the new version is synced in feisty I intend to test it before asking for a backport
<rmjb> it just needs to get into the archive somehow
<sivang> rmjb: I see, then actually this sounds harmless, as yes, feisty people expect trouble :)
<dholbach> sivang: you have to deal with the flames if people loose data :-)
<dholbach> sivang: but that shouldn't stop you, it's just something you have to consider
<sivang> dholbach: okay, I'm happy to deal with it
<sivang> rmjb: gonna ack the sync now
<dholbach> alright
<rmjb> THANK YOU!!!
<rmjb> I want to send you a thank you card...!
* sivang hugs rmjb 
* rmjb hugs sivang 10 times!
<sivang> rmjb: oh no, no need, but you can buy me a bottle or pint of Becks, Erdinger or Paulnar next time you see me if ever ;)
<sivang> dholbach: ^^
<sivang> ;)
<rmjb> hopefully as some UDS in the future :D
<sivang> rmjb: that is indeed what I thought of , yes :)
<jdong> bhale: oh yes, I recall that now, yesterday :)
<jdong> ooh, look at that, my last Maxtor has spun its last revolution last night....
<jdong> in a buffer IO error infinite loop
<jdong> apparently /var/log/* was in a bad area
<jdong> and writing to the log would generate more error events :)
<elkbuntu> anyone here have imbrandon's cell
<rmjb> http://docs.google.com/Doc.aspx?id=dwr4cnp_0xstds7
<rmjb> elkbuntu: it's on that page, his resume
<elkbuntu> ah nevermind, he's alive. with net problems
<rmjb> btw, any update on herd 1?
<vil> hello
<vil> is there any tool to visualize the dependency between packages?
<siretart> vil: try 'apt-cache dotty'
<vil> siretart: great! thanks. let's try it
<jorgp> debian will have a flood of version bumps come dec 4 or so when etch gets released and debian main because totally unfrozen
<rmjb> LaserJock: here for the doc open week session?
<LaserJock> yeah
<bhale> it is still open week?
<sivang> bhale: are you doing any C#/.NET/Mono stuff at work or just PHP ?
<LaserJock> bhale: yeah, last day
<bhale> sivang: php, tcl
<bhale> +expect
<sivang> bhale: I learnt a whole lot new stuff about Mono/C#/.NET , it seems less evil everytime I take a look at it, am I going crazy? :)
<bhale> no
<bhale> C# rules.
<sivang> bhale: are you doing subprcess control from PHP based web sites?
<bhale> subprocess control?
<bhale> like spawning external programs?
<sivang> 17:53 < bhale> +expect
<bhale> expect is an extension to tcl
<bhale> very seperate from php..
<sivang> sure, I Know
<bhale> there are 4 pieces
<bhale> the database, where all device info is stored
<bhale> the automation functions, pull data from DB, perform automated acts on devices on CLI
<bhale> the SNMP pollers, pull data from DB, poll using SNMP, put more data back to DB or into rrdtool
<bhale> the web interface, which is PHP, shows textual or rrdtool data to the user
<sivang> bhale: I reached a point where I can't understand why all the IT world, open and closed, shouldn't just standartize on C# for most of the stuff, and revert to "wrist friendly" stuff like IronPython and Boo for the rest
<bhale> oh, i absolutely shouldnt standardize on any of those
<bhale> show me a mature SNMP binding with all the features I need in CLR
<bhale> then one for RRDTool
<sivang> bhale: well, ofcourse there are weak spots,
<sivang> bhale: doesn't mean we can't improve that by writing exiting new bindings for it
<bhale> i dont have time to invest in moving to something that doesnt do what I need now
<bhale> TCL/Expect has a long history of network management usage and the bindings show it
<sivang> bhale: ofcourse, noted, but for web development which I'm reading is now possible using mono and a couple of tohers, it could be way cool to have type safety and useful where you need to refactor large quants of code
<bhale> if it made sense I would have switched :)
<sivang> bhale: ah, that's what I wanted to hear :)
<bhale> think about now, having a bunch of little scripts in $foo/bin
<bhale> your web stuff
<bhale> think of managing the source code somewhere also
<bhale> and makefile/autotools rules to install everything in the right place
<bhale> recompiling
<bhale> it doesnt fit in my work flow
<bhale> for plenty of reasons
<bhale> I develop in mono on the gnome desktop
<bhale> it makes sense.
<sivang> bhale: right, on the fly script glue is what you need
<sivang> bhale: what stuff you do on the gnome desktop?
<sivang> (in mono/C#)
<bhale> last-exit
* sivang googles
<bhale> it is #6 on google
<sivang> bhale: http://www.lastexitlive.com/index.php? :)
<bhale> no
<bhale> http://folks.o-hand.com/iain/last-exit/
<sivang> bhale: did you put efforts into the web page interface? :P
<bhale> sivang: heh no
<bhale> but i love it
<bhale> i want to reproduce it as a wiki somehow
<sivang> bhale: are there ubuntu packages already?
<sivang> I'd like to test it
<bhale> yes
<bhale> it is in edgy and feisty
* sivang installs
<sivang> universe yes
<sivang> ?
<bhale> yes.
<bhale> you need an account from http://last.fm
<sivang> I am available for website design, but my rates are very high, although you do get the use of my patented site-in-a-png(tm, pat. pending) technology.
<sivang> ?? :)
<sivang> HAHAHA
<sivang> can last-exit help me create an account ?
<bhale> i think so
<bhale> there is a first run dialog
<bhale> to enter your account
<sivang> bhale: yes, I'm trying it now
<sivang> account created
<bhale> you can join our group
<bhale> and be the first person from israel maybe
<stgraber> nice software, I didn't know of it
<sivang> bhale: kool, how do I do it?
<bhale> sivang: press play.
<bhale> oh
<bhale> there is a button in Preferences to join
<sivang> bhale: yes, I clicked it, it opens the browser
<bhale> yes
<bhale> click join
<bhale> under the group logo
<sivang> bhale: You are not currently a member of the "Last Exit" group. Click to join this group.
<sivang> ?
<bhale> yes
<sivang> done, now what?
<bhale> you are joined
<bhale> first member from israel
<bhale> http://www.last.fm/group/Last+Exit/countries
<stgraber> and second from Switzerland
<bhale> rock!
<sivang> cool!
<sivang> bhale: btw,  was I rquired to say which country I am from for the stats to work?
<bhale> yes
<stgraber> yes, in the Preferences (top right block)
<bhale> stgraber: ah nice you were already using lastfm
<stgraber> bhale: yes, a little bit with Rhythmbox
<stgraber> The group top Artists looks great
<sivang> bhale: does it need anything special to play ?
<bhale> no
<sivang> bhale: it's muted here for some reson
<bhale> well actually
<bhale> you never played any songs, it doesnt know what to do :)
<bhale> it is based on your listening habits
<bhale> from banshee or rhythmbox say
<sivang> hmm, right
<sivang> oh wawo , how does it know that?
<bhale> with a plugin
<sivang> do those apps keep a play history ?
<bhale> both of them include it by default iirc
<bhale> just need to configure it with your account
<bhale> it posts each song to the web service
<bhale> after you played it
<sivang> i see
<bhale> then it builds a history there
<bhale> decides similar users and artists etc
<sivang> so it will play stuff on my hd already yes?
<bhale> some of it
<sivang> I thought it would play stuff from the net
<bhale> some stuff your "neighbors" played
<bhale> yes from the net
<bhale> based on your listening habits...
<bhale> it will play things it thinks you will like
<sivang> I see. How can I tell it I like blues/jazz etc?
<bhale> play blues/jazz
<bhale> after configuring RB
* sivang trie
<sivang> tries
* outime I'm back in about 45 minutes
<sivang> playing virgin classic rock,
<sivang> queen is on !
<sivang> bhale: can't find in RB where to configure my account
<stgraber> in the plugins
<stgraber> Edit -> Plugins then you have a last.fm plugins
<sivang> stgraber: yes, found it, already done
<sivang> do I need to restart RB for this to take effect?
<stgraber> I don't think
<stgraber> sivang: Did you try playing some songs with Rhythmbox ? I don't see any changes on your last.fm page ...
<shawarma> sivang: You need to listen to at least half of the song, I think.
<shawarma> sivang: Otherwise it doesn't count as listened.
<sivang> shawarma, shawarma : yes, it's all working now
<sivang> bhale: amazing thin
<shawarma> How much bandwidth does it use?
<sivang> bhale: how does it decide what I might lik e? :)
<sivang> I don't get it
<sivang> I asked for stuff the sounds like "Pink Floyd" and it brought an amazingly similar song by the Cure
<sivang> how does it do that? :D
<stgraber> sivang: It checks the others users that listened to the same sounds and give you the others they were listening to
<stgraber> it should be a little bit more complex I think but that's the idea
<sivang> stgraber: so it look sthat someone else that looked for something similar to pink floyd, listened to the cure and then it give me it?
<shawarma> sivang: Just like Amazon can guess which books you might like based on yours and every one else's choices of books.
<sivang> shawarma: ah, so that relies on last.fm being already full of users with suggestions and preferences, otherwise this can't work
<shawarma> sivang: If you have enough statisticla data you can start making VERY informed guesses.
<shawarma> sivang: Exactly.
<LaserJock> shawarma: did you see axiom go by?
<shawarma> LaserJock: No, I'm not subscribed to feisty-changes. Yet.
<bhale> sivang: it finds people who listened to the same bands as you
<bhale> sivang: then it sees what else they listened to
<shawarma> LaserJock: Yes, I see it. Excellent. Thanks!
<LaserJock> shawarma: can you check to make sure it built ok Launchpad for me
* sivang wonders if LaserJock just tried to build launchpad ;=)
<shawarma> LaserJock: OMG! https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/280436 7 hours!
<sivang> 2006-12-02 15:32:53 UTC (7 hours 10 minutes)
<shawarma> LaserJock: i386 and amd64 made it in the expected 1 hour 50 minutes.
<sivang> oh marry queen of soctts!
<sivang> bhale: where does it ifnd all the songs on the net?
<sivang> bhale: it seems it can find *anything*
<sivang> bhale: are there radio stations the allow you to request a specific song?
<sivang> (track)
<stgraber> If any MOTU has a minute : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3576 it should be quite good, thx
<sivang> bhale: does Mono have something like python-pexpect in the CLI ?
<sivang> bhale: s/CLI/CLR/
<stgraber> sivang: there is the "sounds like" thing but not a way to get a specific song (or I don't know it)
<sivang> bhale: and in .NET on windows, for that matter
<sivang> stgraber: so how does it ask for a specific song that is similar to what I have requested
<joejaxx> anyone know the package that holds the broadcom driver?
<shawarma> stgraber: There is no way to ask for specific songs.
<joejaxx> not the cutter package
<shawarma> stgraber: They're not allowed to provide that.
<stgraber> shawarma: seems logical :) It's not a download website :)
<shawarma> LaserJock: archive.ubuntu.com gives me 16 Kb/s so it takes a while to download. :-)
<shawarma> LaserJock: ...but the build logs look fine.
<LaserJock> ok
<sivang> bhale: I'm thinking of contributing to Mono upstream, seems like the most prominent CLI project to contribute to, and seems that I will want to create Mono bindings for DAR rather then python ones, I regret not developing hubackup in C# already.
<shawarma> LaserJock: Ah, it's been synced to the Swedish mirror. I'll be done in no time then.
<sivang> bhale: with the new UI and other changes, it's a pain refactoring the code in python
<shawarma> LaserJock: It works like a charm!
<bhale> sivang: DAR?
<bhale> why is refactoring immediately easier in C# than python?
<bhale> refactoring is nice in MVC
<bhale> which you could do in python just as well
<sivang> bhale: Well, indeed it is in MVC, and I
<sivang> bhale: I'm already using MVC on the project, however, when changing the backend, some more type safety would help
<sivang> (I'm dramatiacally changing the backend classes constructors)
<sivang> bhale: would make the process of detecting errors easier and less painful due to the changes,
<sivang> bhale: in the form of complier warnings/errors
<bhale> nod
<jorgp> anyone know of a firefox 1.5 for edgy?
<LaserJock> I don't
<Adri2000> can I request a sync for the package sympa from debian experimental? experimental has a new upstream release
<Adri2000> !info sympa
<ubotu> sympa: Modern mailing list manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.1.5-7 (edgy), package size 1149 kB, installed size 8064 kB
<LaserJock> is there a particular reason to sync from experimental?
<amnesia> re
<Adri2000> LaserJock: new upstream release: 4.x -> 5.x
<Adri2000> unstable has still 4.x
<LaserJock> ok, but experimental generally means it's an "experimental" package
<LaserJock> so unless there is a particular reason to get it I'd wait until 5.x made it to unstable
<ajmitch> morning
<LaserJock> Adri2000: of course that's just my opinion though
<LaserJock> you could as a real pro like ajmitch 
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Adri2000> LaserJock: I thought it didn't go in unstable because of the release of debian etch
<amnesia> ajmitch: hi
<Adri2000> hi ajmitch 
<LaserJock> etch isn't unstable
<LaserJock> etch is testing
<LaserJock> I'm pretty sure it's only unstable -> testing that gets frozen
<LaserJock> ajmitch: do you know ^^?
<amnesia> ajmitch: ping me when you have a little time plese
<LaserJock> wow, he's getting all the attention :-)
* ajmitch blinks
<amnesia> you had yours this week LaserJock :)
* ajmitch didn't do it
<LaserJock> amnesia: heh
<amnesia> ajmitch: heh well instead I did something you could fix :)
<ajmitch> LaserJock: it's still encouraged that stuff doesn't get randomly uploaded to sid, and so some of it lands in experimental
<ajmitch> amnesia: unlikely
<LaserJock> amnesia:  it's because all the competent people are busy
<amnesia> ajmitch: yeah it is, your name stands on the wiki site
<amnesia> LaserJock:  :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: right, but sid isn't frozen because of etch is it?
<ajmitch> LaserJock: not hard frozen, but close enough
<amnesia> ajmitch: so come back to me if you have some time, really :)
<LaserJock> ajmitch: ok, so does it make sense to sync from experimental?
<ajmitch> only in some cases
<ajmitch> amnesia: you still haven't told me what
<Adri2000> bug 74177
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 74177 in sympa "New versions available (5.2.3 instead of 4.1.5)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74177
<amnesia> I broke the upload when uploading to revu, and now I can't upload, getting error 553
<amnesia> -f doesn't help
<amnesia> dput -f that is
<ajmitch> package name?
<amnesia> ircp-tray
<amnesia> I probably shouldn't do a ctrl-c when uploading... :)
<ajmitch> no, you shouldn't
<ajmitch> cleaned
<amnesia> thanks
<amnesia> yay, first upload!
<amnesia> now I should find 2 motus to review it right?
<plugwash> afaict sid isn't frozen as such but uploading stuff there thats not intended for etch is strongly discouraged because it can make updating etch a lot more work if people do that
<jorgp> amnesia, what did you upload?
<amnesia> ircp-tray: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3611
<jorgp> LaserJock, yes, lots of sid is frozen because of etch, like the toolchain for example
<LaserJock> that seems odd to me
<LaserJock> oh, maybe it does
<LaserJock> as sid would then become lenny
<jorgp> like glibc sid still using 2.3.6
<jorgp> because of etch
<ajmitch> and if people could upload whatever they wanted to sid still, it would make it awfully hard to pull in fixes for etch
<amnesia> jorgp: my first package on the road to become a part of ubuntu, I think I could help a little
<jorgp> its always been that way, I guess because of the migrate thing, dunno
<jorgp> amnesia, that for feisty right?
<amnesia> jorgp:  no, edgy
<ajmitch> it'll need to be for feisty
<amnesia> jorgp: I have only edgies around
<amnesia> ajmitch: hmm
<amnesia> should work though, not much deps
<ajmitch> we don't stick new stuff in edgy
<jorgp> you can build a feisty chroot using pbuilder
<amnesia> jorgp: well I'll need to wait for my 16mbit DSL for that
<jorgp> even if you are using edgy
<amnesia> monday then
<amnesia> will come back to you, thanks!
<amnesia> I\m on the neighbor's unencrypted wlan atm :>
<jorgp> look into pbuilder its a wonderful thing
<amnesia> not too speedy
<amnesia> yeah that's what I've built it with
<jorgp> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto?highlight=%28pbuilder%29
<jorgp> pretty good doc
<amnesia> k thanks
<amnesia> will read that then, this connection is not good for much more..
<jorgp> basicly you want to do: sudo pbuilder create --distribution feisty
<amnesia> yeah. that will overwrite the prev. edgy thing right?
<amnesia> not that I'll need it as it seems
<jorgp> that I am not sure
<jorgp> good topic in #ubuntu-classroom.. Ubuntu porting
<amnesia> shit I forgot about the classes today. damn
<somerville32> Just started
<amnesia> thx
<cmpalmer> mediawiki shows an update for edgy, but some dependencies are unavailable. can somebody point me to what's going on?
<LaserJock> cmpalmer: well, is it just plain missing dependencies or wrong versions?
<Simon80> um, if I build a package in a faisty chroot, how am I suppoed to test that it won't eat babies when I run it?
<Simon80> feisty*
<Simon80> also, I'd like to remind everyone to review my package if possible... it's a game, fun!
<Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
<plugwash> Simon80 install and run it inside the feisty chroot?
<Simon80> plugwash: so then I would need for pbuilder to freeze and let me into the chroot when the build finishes
<plugwash> i think pbuilder has a command "pbuilder login" which lets you get a shell inside the chroot
<mr_pouit> Simon80: you can use pbuilder as a normal chroot, with "pbuilder login"
<mr_pouit> oops ^^
<plugwash> but i don't bother with pbuilder myself
<Simon80> yeah, it does... but then I have to build manually..
<Simon80> I think
<Simon80> is it a good idea to test on feisty before uploading then?
<Simon80> hmm: If you want to participate in the current release cycle, you will want to have a FeistyFawn chroot.
<plugwash> or even just run feisty on your desktop if you are daring ;)
<Simon80> yeah, but I don't like doing that early on... things break
<amnesia> being on topic, how do devs do the packagint? they have a feisty installed so they can package and install their packages?
<amnesia> or they just do with pbuilder and hope it works (as I do now)
<lifeless> test in chroots
<lifeless> test machines
<lifeless> switch to feisty
<lifeless> usually some combination
<Simon80> chroot as in pbuilder?
<amnesia> k
<lifeless> Simon80: no
<lifeless> chroot as in a feisty chroot you routinely log into and run programs in, not the clean-room thing pbuilder maintains
<amnesia> jorgp: I'm just doing the feisty package, could you check if for me then?
<amnesia> grr what's the sense to rename a package in feisty to have an added 0 at the end? edgy: libscrollkeeper, feisty: libscrollkeeper0
<amnesia> I know it's a debian thing, could never understand why
<Simon80> might have to do with compiler transitions... but it looks extremely kludgy to me
<cmpalmer> mediawiki shows an update for edgy, but some dependencies are unavailable (only shows older versions). can somebody point me to what's going on?
<amnesia> cmpalmer: you're right
<amnesia> but it's the backport I'm getting installed
<amnesia> ~edgy1
<amnesia> you might wanna bugreport that
<amnesia> to the mediawiki package
<plugwash> you do have both updates and backports in your sources right?
* cmpalmer check
<cmpalmer> err
<amnesia> I do
* cmpalmer checks
* plugwash imagines having backports without updates is asking for trouble
<jdong> cmpalmer: what dependencies are not available?
<cmpalmer> mediawiki1.7 and mediawiki1.7-math, it says
<jdong> cmpalmer: aye, I see that right now
<jdong> let me investigate
<jdong> *sigh* it worked a week ago....
* cmpalmer bows
<cmpalmer> thanks
<amnesia> I confirm it :>
<jdong> pfft mediawiki is now a metapackage
<jdong> and mediawiki1.7 is the real package
<amnesia> which is not in
<jdong> whose genius idea is that?
<jdong> well, I'll fix that
<jdong> not like it's breaking anything per se
<jdong> :)
<jdong> lol
* Adri2000 looking for a Merge-o-Matic guy, found something wrong in a package...
<amnesia> when pbuilder my package for feisty I'm getting:  checking for scrollkeeper-config... no
<amnesia> and it worked for edgy. it stinks, can someone lend a hand maybe?
<Simon80> what command does one use to check what distribution they're on? uname won't do it..
<jdong> cmpalmer: I just need to have mediawiki1.7 backported in addition to mediawiki.... no much harm done
<amnesia> uname -a
<amnesia> oh
<mr_pouit> Simon80: /etc/issue ?
<Simon80> that's it
<Simon80> thanks
<jdong> Simon80: lsb_release -a is more correct :D
<Simon80> jdong: how can it be "more" correct? plus, if the OS isn't ubuntu, that command isn't necessarily there
<jdong> Simon80: /etc/issue is a user-editable file... it's what's presented at login. Most of my systems have it customized to the point that the ubuntu version is stripped out
<jdong> Simon80: and that command is present on any LSB-compliant or lsb-wannabe distro
<Simon80> yeah, but I hoping for a general unix thing I could use
<jdong> there's no "generic" for a distro version checker
<jdong> uname -a will show you the kernel versions
<Simon80> indeed
<jdong> lsb_release is actually probably the closest you'll get :-/
<jdong> and /etc/*-release is pretty common too
<jdong> often times checking what distro you're on takes a bit of detective work
<amnesia> jorgp: ok feisty package uploaded
<Simon80> feisty as in the changelog says feisty, right?
<amnesia> ?
<amnesia> unstable
<Simon80> oh
<Simon80> why unstable?
<amnesia> Simon80: what did you mean again? might have missunderstood it
<Simon80> I mean the dist thing in the changelog next to the version
<amnesia> in my package it's "unstable"
<amnesia> not sure who gets to change that, I'm new to packaging
<jdong> amnesia: a text editor gets to change that :)
<Simon80> ajmitch told me that it should be feisty, so I did that
<amnesia> jdong: yeah but dh_make created that file so...
<Simon80> lol
<amnesia> Simon80: ok thanks, will do that then
<amnesia> I kinda believe ajmitch :>
<jdong> he's a good one to believe
<jdong> speaking of that
<Simon80> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html
* jdong changes prevu to set -D $dist-backports
<jdong> not like it honestly matters :D
<amnesia> not like I know what you did ;)
<amnesia> Simon80: I know that page, did I miss something?
<amnesia> ah there, I see
<amnesia> strange that I got "unstable" generated
<Simon80> yeah, that's cause these are debian tools
<Simon80> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/gs-pbuilder.html
<Simon80> why are there two pbuilder guides???? lol
<cmpalmer> jdong: so, in case I missed it... when can I expect to see mediawiki1.7 in the repo?
<elektranox> could somebody here re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<jdong> cmpalmer: I reopened the ubuntu-archive ticket for mediawiki.... the next time ubuntu-archive processes it is when it'll work in the repo
<jdong> cmpalmer: I tried poking an archive admin a second ago to just do it, but he refused, so... :)
<cmpalmer> jdong: thanks. :)
<ademan> hey i'm goin NUTS on this eclipse-cdt, is it reasonable for me to mess with debian/rules?
<ademan> i mean i haven't yet, but would it be a mortal sin if i did?
<ademan> and i wanna get this friggin thing packaged
<Simon80> what's the situation here?
<Simon80> cause if you're packaging from scratch, you would need to edit debian/rules, it's basically a makefile
<ademan> Simon80: its the eclipse-cdt it's an existing package that depends on the eclipse package.  Unfortunately the new version of the eclipse package doesn't work with the current version of the eclipse-cdt, so i need to package an upstream update
<amnesia> battery running low, g'night
<Simon80> ah
<Simon80> well, if things have changed and debian/rules needs updating, then have at it I guess... I wouldn't know though
<geser> is ok to change debian/rules if it is necessary
<geser> e.g. some packages have patches to install .desktop files which needs to modify debian/rules
<geser> I already needed to update the debian/rules file in two packages to get it build
<rmjb> hello, any MOTU here and have time to REVU a package?
<Simon80> yes, please, we need review!
<elektranox> "Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu or at  keyring@tiber.tauware.de to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU."can somebody of you do so? btw.: why is this not done automatically :/
<Simon80> probably cause launchpad doesn't automatically do it when yuo add yourself to universe contributors
<lifeless> why is it not cronned ?
<Simon80> that's not a cron kind of thing
<Simon80> well, I guess taht would be a workaround
<Simon80> but I mean, you want to do it whenever someone adds themselves to universe contributors
<lifeless> righ
<lifeless> but just doing it hourly
<lifeless> shrug
<elektranox> would dput return an error if my key is not in the list? is the package list updated by cron or automatically?
<mr_pouit> every 5 minutes
<Simon80> if your key is in the list, the package should show up pretty quickly
<Simon80> I just did this for the first time yesterday night
<minghua> mr_pouit: are you sure it's done automatically?  last time I heard, it needs manually sync by REVU admins
<jdong> mr_pouit: my key had to be manually synced
<mr_pouit> minghua: I think new uploaded sources are processed every 5 minutes, but new gpg keys have to be added manually
<mr_pouit> yes
<jdong> and the REVU deities didn't appreciate my hasty uploading :)
<mr_pouit> I think everyone uploaded its first package before having its key added ^^
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I did
<theCore> I don't know which VCS to use between subversion and bzr for managing my packages. Any recommendations?
<jdong> I suggest bzr
<jdong> I've recently switched most of my svn repos to bzr
<jdong> svn's server-side IMO is not worth the effort for most projects
<jdong> and bzr's branching abilities really do come in handy a lot
<theCore> I was thinking creating a local svn repos, so the server-side thing isn't a problem for me
<theCore> jdong, what do you use for building the packages?
<minghua> mr_pouit: yes.  and I believe elektranox was asking about the gpg key list (although I admit he was quite unclear)
<theCore> bzr builddeb?
<theCore> or just pbuilder?
<jdong> theCore: pbuilder mostly
<jdong> theCore: most of my building is in the context of backporting, in which case I use prevu
<jdong> (which is a fancy wrapper around pbuilder for backporting work)
<theCore> jdong, oh, ok thanks
<mr_pouit> minghua: yes you're right, but he said "package list", so I thought he was speaking about something else 
<mr_pouit> ^^"
<elektranox> I meant this list: http://revu.tauware.de/index.py
<elektranox> :S
* elektranox is not very good in english ^^""
<Simon80> there's a gpg key list?
<minghua> A uploader list, more precisely.  See topic.
<minghua> elektranox: that list is updated automatically.  but if your gpg key is not synced by admins, you can't upload, and your package won't show up there
<theCore> There's another thing I am having trouble with: the directory hierarchy. Is there someone that would be nice enough to show me a "template", or a `ls -R' of their packaging environment?
<Simon80> but is there a list you can check?
<elektranox> there are no admins online, are they?
<minghua> Simon80: yes, in the channel topic
<minghua> theCore: no idea about bazaar, but in my SVN repo I just use the most common trunk/, branches/, and tags/ layout
<Simon80> minghua, that's the launchpad list, but I mean, a revu list to check if your key is synced
<jdong> Simon80: packaging layout for bzr-maintained packages?
<Simon80> ?
<jdong> Simon80: sorry wrong person
<Simon80> lol
<jdong> ugh
<jdong> I give up for today :)
<jdong> time to take a break and work more on my radar detector code
<minghua> Simon80: oh, the synced list.  no, it's not visible to public AFAIK
#ubuntu-motu 2006-12-03
<Simon80> yeah, exactly
<theCore> minghua, do you use one repository for each package?
<elektranox> siretart / ajmitch - can you re-sync the list, please?
<minghua> theCore: Not now.  But that was not decided by me.  If I use my own repository, then yes, I would use one repo for each package.
<theCore> minghua, thanks
<theCore> I think I will try bzr and svn, then I will which work better for me
<theCore> finally, I found a program to package 
<theCore> usually, there's always a debian guy who taken all the fun
<theCore> :)
<jdong> theCore: package tovid while you're at it :)
<jdong> theCore: the author really wants a proper debian package
<theCore> jdong, oh thanks, I will look at it
<jdong> theCore: I've made a pretty terrible initial-attempt at http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/tovid
<jdong> theCore: it isn't anywhere near Debian-compliance, but it already beats checkinstalling... help the guy out :)
<theCore> hehe 
* jdong has saved learning python-central for another day
<Simon80> anyone into stepmania? anyone into reviewing and also into stepmania?
<somerville32> Is stepmania better then pydance?
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'll test it, just link me to sources
<ryanakca> Hye Cyllene
<Cyllene> Hey everyone. How could one apply to be a maintainer?
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'll test it, just link me to sources
<Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/
<Simon80> two packages
<somerville32> How do I use diff again (ie. what are the flags I need to use)? :P
<minghua> Cyllene: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<geser> somerville32:  -Nur
<DarkMageZ> no changes to the orig.tar.gz cept the name change?
<somerville32> And how do I generate one between two directories?
<Simon80> hmm?
<Simon80> oh, no
<Simon80> check the diff
<geser> -r is recursive
<geser> somerville32: diff -Nur dir1 dir2
<somerville32> Thanks a bunch :)
<somerville32> geser: That doesn't seem to work
<Cyllene> Whoa, ryanakca. That's a lot of work. :/
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> Dof
<somerville32> my fault
<somerville32> Geser: I'm preparing a patch to fix a bug so what I'm doing is tacking the revision before the fix and the revision that fixed and creating a patch to apply to the package. Is this the right track?
<somerville32> s/tacking/taking
<ryanakca> Cyllene: what is? packaging?
<geser> yes
<Cyllene> ryanakca: No, becoming a member is. :p
<Simon80> darkmagez: are you doing ok with it?
<minghua> Cyllene: if you just want to maintain one package, you can just do your work and ask somebody here to upload it for you
<Cyllene> hmm
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'm reading it now :)
<Simon80> the diff?
<somerville32> geser: Should the earlier revision be the first argument and the next revision the second argument?
<Simon80> btw, if you want binaries, I can link you to that too
<geser> somerville32: diff -Nur old_version new_version
<ryanakca> Cyllene: yeah... that's what I do :)
<somerville32> geser: And to apply, I would do patch -Nur --dry-run ../patch.diff ?
<somerville32> (for a dry run)
<Cyllene> Cool.
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, it looks good. i'm building it now
<Cyllene> And if you maintain a few packages for a while, you can work your way up to membership maybe. :)
<Simon80> cool
<Simon80> like I said, I have edgy i386 binaries published... I should at least
<geser> somerville32: patch -p1 --dry-run < ../patch.diff
<minghua> Cyllene: exactly.
<geser> in the old_version dir
<somerville32> geser: I didn't get any errors from the dryn run so it is safe to apply, right? :)
<Simon80> I suppose you shouuldn't trust me, and build it yourself, but that takes time :D
<geser> somerville32: yes
<Cyllene> ryanakca: What packages do you maintain?
<ryanakca> Cyllene: just a sec
<ryanakca> Cyllene: https://launchpad.net/people/ryanakca/+packages
<somerville32> geser: The current package version is 0.2.2-2ubuntu5. Should the new package be 0.2.2-2ubuntu6 or 0.2.2-2ubuntu5.1?
<geser> for which release?
<geser> for feisty it would be 0.2.2-2ubuntu6
<somerville32> dapper
<somerville32> I'm doing an SRU
<geser> then 0.2.2-2ubuntu5.1
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> :] 
<jdong> 2ubuntu5.0.6.10-1? 
<jdong> (j/k) :D
<geser> would this make 2ubuntu5.0.6.10 part of the version and -1 the revision?
<jdong> sure let's go with that :)
<somerville32> This packaging thing is getting easier with more practise <g>
<somerville32> Can someone review?: http://pastebin.ca/265101
<geser> looks ok to me
<geser> I would also add a # before the bug numbers
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> :] 
<geser> but it' more of a personal taste
<theCore> I'm realizing that using svn would only add an overhead to my packaging tasks
<jdong> I only version packaging info selectively...
<jdong> and svn adds as much overhead as you can ask for :)
<somerville32> What do I do if I get an error when signing the package?
<jdong> ok, I take that back
<jdong> s/svn/CVS
<theCore> I wonder when HCT will be ready 
<somerville32> I think I need to use a flag to specify the key by id
<somerville32> Whats the flag?
<theCore> somerville32, -k
<jdong> theCore: cat hurd-joke | sed -e 's/hurd/HCT/g'
<theCore> hehe
<theCore> I think I will try bzr-builddeb
<somerville32> a debdiff is a patch, right?
<jdong> yeah, pretty much
<somerville32> So I would check the checkmark in the lp post comment section, right?
<jdong> I don't know
<jdong> I know I don't
<somerville32> What does it do anyhow?
<minghua> theCore: I only put debian/ dir into SVN
<theCore> minghua, hmm, interesting
<minghua> somerville32: I label debdiff as a patch. :-)  I don't think that label is important, though
<theCore> personally, I would like to separate the *.orig.tar.gz into a tarballs/ directory and put my builds inside build-area/ 
<minghua> that sounds a very good idea, but probably need some smart scripts to automate the work
<minghua> especially if you have contents in .diff.gz that is out of debian/ dir
<theCore> that what I was thinking doing
<minghua> I know some maintainers/teams do things that way, though
<minghua> Debian's vim team, for example
<minghua> but they use a unusual .orig.tar.gz structure
<minghua> a tarball-and-patch-in-orig.tar.gz one
<theCore> oh, I see
<somerville32> I hate building packages
<somerville32> It takes forever :/
<theCore> hehe
<theCore> the other nice thing I was thinking is having a build daemon to make package from the fresh upstream source. 
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, stepmania claims that there are no songs installed. i've got stepmania & stepmania data installed. no default songs?
<theCore> but, I imagine it would be quite hard to maintain
<theCore> however, it would be very useful
<somerville32> Anyone here on dapper 64bit?
<superm1> DarkMageZ, typically there are no default songs for stepmania
<DarkMageZ> yeah, i just noticed that, i always had someone set stepmania up for me
<fernando> hi all
<Cyllene> Hi.
<Simon80> darkmagez: nope, sorry
<Simon80> http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/Download_Songs
<Simon80> I get mine from DDRUK, if you want DDR songs... but that's likely copyright infringement
<Simon80> so that's all I'm gonna say about that here
<plerk> hey, anyone of you know if imbrandon is around?
<Simon80> but at stepmania.com, the developers are making efforts to get people to submit original songs.  The reason one would want DDR songs is so that they can practice those at home, and then know them already when they hit an arcade machine
<Cyllene> hmm
<Cyllene> With gpg, I have two keys, a main key (rsa) and a subkey (rsa). Which one do I send to the ubuntu keyserver?
<Cyllene> One is used for encryption and the other for signing.
<Cyllene> I want to say the one for encryption, but you would think that an RSA key has two parts, a public and private part.
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, ok it works and the packaging looks good to me.
<Simon80> thanks
<Simon80> but you can't review it, right?
<Simon80> did you get any songs, btw?
<DarkMageZ> Simon80, i completed a dance with a song i found on the net and tried an alternative ui. unfortunantly no i can't review.
<Simon80> hehe, well thanks
<elektranox> still no admin online?
<Simon80> send an email to that address and wait a day
<Simon80> I did that on friday morning
<Simon80> got synced in the afternoon
<elektranox> k
<plerk> hey! either of u seen imbrandon around?
<theCore> Cyllene, you always send the public part. Keep the private part well-guarded
<Simon80> hey hobbsee, can you review?
<Hobbsee> hey Simon80 
<Hobbsee> not at the moment
* Hobbsee hastn even had breakfast yet
<Simon80> lol
<ajmitch> at this hour?!
<Simon80> oh, but you're capable
<Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: can review
<Simon80> well, someone, lol
<Cyllene> theCore: Well, yeah. But I incorrectly assumed that the presence of an RSA key meant you have both a public and a private part.
<Cyllene> gpg makes the distinction between which key is for signing and which key is for encrypting.
<theCore> Cyllene, well, that's what public-key encryption is all about
<Cyllene> theCore: Yeah but usually I would generate "one" RSA key which was the public and private parts.
<theCore> Cyllene, is it the first time you use gpg?
<Cyllene> No it's not, it's just the first time I am making my keys all complicated and not the default way. :p
<theCore> Cyllene, what is wrong with the default options?
<Cyllene> theCore: Nothing, I just have a habit of trying things different ways.
<Cyllene> I.e, I like to look at different settings and methods and see what happens when you change them.
<elektranox> ajmitch: you'r one of the REVU admins, aren't you? could you please re-sync the keyring?
<theCore> now, I love my setup
<theCore> I got everything at the right place
<theCore> hopefully, it will pay off
<somerville32> Is there a TODO list somewhere?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: there's a merges list
<Hobbsee> merges.ubuntu.com
<somerville32> Can someone re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: ^
<somerville32> Use your stick thinger to get his attention :] 
<Hobbsee> nah...
* somerville32 hugs Hobbsee.
<imbrandon> gnight all
<somerville32> Night
<Simon80> anyone feel like reviewing 8)
<peanutb> can the gpg keyring please be resynced
<joejaxx> bhale: exess flood kicks
<joejaxx> DBO: 
<DBO> ?
<joejaxx> beofre you joined
<joejaxx> want a paste?
<joejaxx> DBO: http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=302
<DBO> yeah its a bot attack
<joejaxx> yeah
<peanutb> how would i submit a package that is written in php?
<somerville32> peanutb: Same way you would submit any other package.
<somerville32> Anyone around?
<crimsun> in some fashion.
<somerville32> I've just dh-maked
<somerville32> updated changelog
<somerville32> updated control
<somerville32> However, I'm a bit confused about rules
<somerville32> Should I uncomment dh_python?
<somerville32> It is a python application
<crimsun> which approach to Python Policy does it use?
<somerville32> No idea
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> I'm packaging this from scratch
<somerville32> Hmmm
<somerville32> I think I got it
<somerville32> Do I need a dirs file?
<crimsun> not necessarily
<crimsun> my suggestion since it's a python app is to read the Debian Python Policy. You'll also find the Debian wiki on Python Policy helpful.
<somerville32> Crimsun: Can you resync the ring?
<crimsun> I'm not a revu admin.
<somerville32> Do I need a menu file?
<somerville32> Or can I just let the Makefile install a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications ?
<crimsun> whatever you want.
<crimsun> normally if it installs an fd.o-compliant desktop file, that's sufficient
<somerville32> E: pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
<crimsun> ignore that lintian error.
<somerville32> ajmitch: ping
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> Looks like it already was synced
<somerville32> It uploaded
<somerville32> "Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
<somerville32> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
<somerville32> rejected by the upload queue management software."
<somerville32> crimsun: When my upload is processes, can you review it for me? :] 
<crimsun> probably not 
<crimsun> honestly, I'm swamped until the end of December
<somerville32> lol, alright
<somerville32> I don't see a "recover password" link anywhere
<crimsun> just enter a null password
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> thanks
<somerville32> I'm going to go make some juice and hopefully my package will have been processed by then :] 
<somerville32> crimsun: I don't see it yet
<crimsun> are you a member of the universe contributors LP team?
<somerville32> Yup
<somerville32> The keyring might not have been synced
<somerville32> But I thought that it would have been rejected when I tried to upload
<crimsun> what syntax did you use?
<somerville32> dput pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes
<crimsun> that's a silent reject
<crimsun> default_host_main = ubuntu
<crimsun> [ubuntu] 
<crimsun> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
<crimsun> you're not in the ubuntu-dev keyring, so your upload was dropped silently
<crimsun> sorry, a silent failure
<crimsun> the reject semantics are different
<crimsun> you need to use dput revu blah
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> Modified
<somerville32> set revu to default
<somerville32> and uploaded
* somerville32 will wait another few minutes.
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> Hmmm...
<somerville32> Still not showing up
<somerville32> crimsun: I got an e-mail for the reject from Ubuntu
<somerville32> From it isn't showing up in revu and there is no e-mail
<crimsun> then wait for the revu keyring to be synced
<Gloubiboulga> somerville32: what does your dput.cf looks like?
<Gloubiboulga> ah, nm
<Gloubiboulga> !
<somerville32> "Since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake),"
<Gloubiboulga> I thought you were trying to upload to the repos
<somerville32> Does that mean I need to do what it says on that page?
<somerville32> nvm
<somerville32> It is already the same :] 
<somerville32> Why isn't the keyring synced automatically?
<somerville32> We need more MOTU admins :/
<ajmitch> it isn't synced automativally because it takes quite awhile to run
<ajmitch> due to gpg sucking
<somerville32> Omgz, you're awake!
<somerville32> Yeah! :)
<ajmitch> no I'm not
<somerville32> Doh : (
* somerville32 wishes he could chat on IRC in his sleep.
<somerville32> Can you resync the keyring for me in your sleep too? :] 
<ajmitch> I'm already doing it, before any more people want to bug me about it
<somerville32> Will you let me know when you're done? :] 
<ajmitch> it's still going
<somerville32> Since anyone can join that team, why not just let everyone upload to revu?
<ajmitch> because we want at least some checks
<ajmitch> ok, it's done
<somerville32> When I decrypt my password, it says "None"
<ajmitch> have you uploaded a package & had it appear on revu?
<stgraber> ajmitch: Do you have a few minute to review an upload on revu ?
<ajmitch> no
<stgraber> ok
<somerville32> ajmitch: Well, I'm still waiting
<somerville32> And it has the GPG stuff there when it didn't have it there before
<ajmitch> if you haven't had a package uploaded & processed on revu, an account is not created
<somerville32> ok
<somerville32> I got an error when I tried to upload after sync
<somerville32> Should I force?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> it won't do any good
<ajmitch> what was the package?
<somerville32> pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1
<ajmitch> try again now, with dput -f
<somerville32> Successfully uploaded packages.
<asabil> hi all
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3614
<somerville32> :)
<asabil> can someone accpet this package ?
<asabil> http://download.gna.org/libg3d/debian/
<asabil> anyone ?
* Hobbsee waves
<Gloubiboulga> hello Hobbsee 
* Admiral_Chicago waves back to Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<Admiral_Chicago> Hobbsee: what time is it over there?
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: December 03 2006, 21:44:45
<ubuntu-es> Hobbsee: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
<Hobbsee> why is ubuntu-es in here?
<Hobbsee> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<Hobbsee> @help
<ubuntu-es> Hobbsee: (help [<plugin>]  [<command>] ) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
<Hobbsee> oh right, it just triggers with @
<Admiral_Chicago> @time Chicago
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Chicago: December 03 2006, 04:45:43
<ubuntu-es> Admiral_Chicago: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
<Admiral_Chicago> :\
<Admiral_Chicago> anyways it's almost 5 AM here 
<crimsun> did we ever discover why ubuntu-es is even here?
<Hobbsee> i never did
<elkbuntu> does anyone know to who he belongs?
<ajmitch> no, ban it
<tsmithe> how do i go about getting something into universe?
<Hobbsee> what?  they fixed -motu's bans
<Admiral_Chicago> Hobbsee & elkbuntu, i'm considering applying for IRC operator team, any ideas?
<elkbuntu> Admiral_Chicago, you dont apply.
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sladen and fbond are the only ops.
<Hobbsee> and none of them seem to have the power to add more ops?
<Hobbsee> Seveas: is that right?
<tsmithe> looks like it
<Admiral_Chicago> how does that work then?
<tsmithe> looking at the access/level list
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: yes...
<somerville32> I bet one of them has the password to the channel
<Admiral_Chicago> according to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-irc it says you apply, but does that mean just the LP team?
<somerville32> If not, we can ask rob to reset the password
<Seveas> Hobbsee, the crapbot is in -locoteams as well
<Seveas> if you find awake freenode staff, please poke them
<Hobbsee> Seveas: well, if we had ops for here, then we could fix it?  it seems that not everyone can get ops here now
<tsmithe> anyhoo: how do i go about getting something into universe?
<Seveas> Hobbsee, freenode staff can get ops everywhere :)
<somerville32> tsmithe: See the wiki :P
<Hobbsee> Seveas: i meant adding people to the access list.  but true
<somerville32> tsmithe: Under MOTU/
<tsmithe> which wiki?
<tsmithe> ah
<somerville32> Hobbsee: If they have the password, when they authenticate with chanserv, they are level 50
<Hobbsee> somerville32: they're *staff* - they should be able to override that
<Admiral_Chicago> maybe someone can explain the IRC operators thing to me later
<somerville32> Freenode staff can reset the password, yeah
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+b *!*@201.230.101.11]  by rob
* ubuntu-es was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by rob (rob)
<tsmithe> right... how do go about packaging a python application
<tsmithe> at the moment it's just the one file
<somerville32> tsmithe: Read the packaging guide :] 
<tsmithe> anywhere to point me to with regards to the debian/ directory contents?
<tsmithe> specifically for python?
<tsmithe> or is it not too different?
<somerville32> Thats what I'm trying to figure out
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> :] 
* tsmithe wonders about dh_python
<sivang> tsmithe: deprecated already :)
<tsmithe> bah
<tsmithe> i've only heard of it
<tsmithe> do i have to use pbuilder?
<sivang> tsmithe: there's a new python policy, http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<somerville32> tsmite: You don't _have_ to
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> ...it's all so bureaucratic
<sivang> tsmithe: indeed, but it must be if we want to keep large project like debian and ubuntu tidied
<tsmithe> i understand that
<tsmithe> having only just started learning python yesterday, this is a big step
<somerville32> level #ubuntu-motu list
<somerville32> err... mischan
<tsmithe> i think you missed /msg chanserv
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o Riddell]  by ChanServ
<tsmithe> isn't there some kind of document somewhere that describes how to write the debian/control file for a python script?
<Riddell> tsmithe: google for debian python policy
<Riddell> 11:07 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- An access level of [20]  is required for [CLEAR]  on #ubuntu-motu
<Riddell> err, hmm, now how do I get rid of this @
<StevenK>  /deop Riddell ?
<tsmithe> this @?
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o Riddell]  by Riddell
<Riddell> rocking
<tsmithe> but it's so long
<Riddell> well debian/control is just the same for any package, there's just a couple of python specific bits
* tsmithe looks at some examples
<tsmithe> thing is, for python, i don't need to build it, and the source and binary packages would be almost identical, with respect to the program itself (not the packaging stuffs)
<tsmithe> the debian python policy goes on about modules
<tsmithe> mine isn't a module
* somerville32 nods.
<tsmithe> well, i'll just do it the same as for any other pacakge
<tsmithe> and then add the python-specifics
<somerville32> I doubt anything special will be needed
<tsmithe> somerville32, what "Section: " would the source package be for my app?
<somerville32> universe/sound ?
<somerville32> universe/system ?
<tsmithe> i'll choose universe/sound
* somerville32 doesn't even know if it exists. haha
<tsmithe> bah
<tsmithe> anyone else?
<tsmithe> is there a list?
<tsmithe> anyone?
<tsmithe> :(
<Gloubiboulga> tsmithe: look at the debian policy
<Gloubiboulga> all the sections are listed
<tsmithe> thanks
<tsmithe> so it will be universe/sound
<Gloubiboulga> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<Gloubiboulga> "sound" only, don't use "universe"
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> "segment/section if the package is in the contrib or non-free distribution areas."
<tsmithe> but it's "contrib"
<somerville32> apt-cache show linneighborhood
<somerville32> It shows it in universe/net
<tsmithe> *neibourhood
<tsmithe> stupid maintainer
<somerville32> gobby is in universe/net too
<Fujitsu> somerville32: The universe/ is added by the archive admins. The section in the source package control file should simply be net.
<somerville32> oh,kk
<Fujitsu> And with that, I shall be off to bed.
<tsmithe> is there any guide on writing a debian/rules file?
<tsmithe> it's ok
* tsmithe refers to debian policy again
<tsmithe> right...
<tsmithe> how can i get the rules file right for a python app
<tsmithe> could someone gimme a simple python package that i can look at as an example?
<tsmithe> ping somebody
<sivang> tsmithe: try to look at the hubackup source
<tsmithe> Seeker`, your fed up with *your* connectio?!
<tsmithe> mine's rubbish
<tsmithe> two different routers
<tsmithe> none get up to the 180KiB/s that i got a couple of weeks ago
<tsmithe> it's gone down to 55!
<pascal80> How can I get packages with missing desktop files fixed?
<somerville32> Modify the package :] 
<pascal80> Can I just send a patch of the desktop file?
<pascal80> I'm not so familiar with altering packages.
<somerville32> File a bug report and attach the patch, sure
<pascal80> How do these bugs get picked up by a MOTU?
<Hobbsee> subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Hobbsee> preferably file the bug and the patch in debian
<Hobbsee> then it will automatically (almost) get fixed over here
<pascal80> Thanks for your answer Hobbsee
* tsmithe is back
<tsmithe> i'm getting this warning, which i don't like
<tsmithe> gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/toby/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
<tsmithe> gpg: skipped "Toby Smithe <toby.smithe@gmail.com>": secret key not available
<tsmithe> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
<tsmithe> thing is, what's unsafe?
<tsmithe> it looks fine to me
<geser> tsmithe: what are the permissions of ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf?
<tsmithe> -rw------- 1 toby toby 8084 2006-06-25 18:11 /home/toby/.gnupg/gpg.conf
<tsmithe> looks very safe
<tsmithe> should i make it world-readable?
<geser> and the perms of the dir ~/.gnupg?
<somerville32> tsmithe: use -k
<geser> that solves the second problem but not the warning
<tsmithe> drwx------ toby toby
<tsmithe> -k?
<geser> this looks safe, I don't understand where gnupg sees a problem
<tsmithe> me neither
<somerville32> Your name must not match your key
<somerville32> So you need to specify it manually
<geser> -k is an option to dpkg-buildpackage to specify the keyid
<somerville32> or something
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> geser: Are you free to review?
<tsmithe> can a revu admin sync the keyring for me?
<somerville32> ajmitch: ^^
<geser> somerville32: what do you want reviewed?
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3616
<geser> somerville32: I'm not a MOTU (yet) but I can give it a look
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> :] 
<tsmithe> it's not neighborhood!
<tsmithe> neighbourhood!
<somerville32> Thats not the name of the program though ;] 
<tsmithe> good
<tsmithe> also, revu won't recover my password
<tsmithe> what's Elgamal?
<somerville32> You don't get a passwd until you upload your first package.
<tsmithe> i did
<tsmithe> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0.dsc: done.
<tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0.tar.gz: done.
<tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.changes: done.
<tsmithe> Successfully uploaded packages.
<tsmithe> Not running dinstall.
<somerville32> Doesn't mean anything
<tsmithe> ?
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: you're uploading to the wrong place.
<tsmithe> oh
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: you didnt follow !revu
<somerville32> That too
<tsmithe> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Hobbsee> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com)
<tsmithe> Hobbsee, REVU says "Since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake), dput is already configured for REVU uploads, with the [revu]  entry. However, if are running an earlier version you can add the following entry to your /etc/dput.cf:"
<tsmithe> so i assumed it would be fine to leave it
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: that's what i thought  but each time i install, i find it defaults to ubuntu.  check the dput.cf
<tsmithe> [ubuntu] 
<tsmithe> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
<tsmithe> incoming = /
<tsmithe> login = anonymous
<tsmithe> [revu] 
<tsmithe> fqdn = revu.tauware.de
<tsmithe> incoming = /incoming
<tsmithe> login = anonymous
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> default_host_main = ubuntu
<Hobbsee> yes
* tsmithe tries agai
<tsmithe> *again
<tsmithe> it should be alright to p
<tsmithe> it should be alright to upload now, then?
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: yes
<tsmithe> cool
<somerville32> I don't think you're synced
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: you'll just get a rejected mail from ubuntu @ your previous upload
<tsmithe> damn... am i not synced?
<tsmithe> it uploaded alright...
<sivang> Hobbsee: are you approved for main by any chance? I could use a sponsership for a package
<Hobbsee> sivang: nope
<Hobbsee> sorry
<tsmithe> i don't think i'm synced
<somerville32> You aren't :P
<tsmithe> it's not giving me a password
<tsmithe> can someone sync me?
<Hobbsee> it only creates you an account after your first upload
<tsmithe> i did upload
<Hobbsee> siretart: around?
<siretart> Hobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
<somerville32> tsmithe: It was rejected silently
<Hobbsee> hah
<tsmithe> ok
<Hobbsee> siretart: this is not a contentless ping.  this is requesting a syncing of the keyring.
<tsmithe> so can someone sync the keyring, and i'll try again
<tsmithe> thanks
<somerville32> No one is around to do it
<tsmithe> Hobbsee's request above doesn't agree
<somerville32> That was an automated response
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: sorry?
<tsmithe> automated
<tsmithe> poo
<Hobbsee> heh
* tsmithe wants to upload!
<somerville32> I felt the same way <g>
* Hobbsee cant resync the keyrink
<Hobbsee> s/k/g/
<somerville32> We need more MOTU admins! :)
<tsmithe> indeed
<tsmithe> 131 peeps in channel and not a single admin around
<Hobbsee> tsmithe: there are at least 3. ajmitch, siretart and imbrandon.  however none seem to be awake
<somerville32> imbrandon is a MOTU admin?
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Want to review my package?
<VoX> i wonder how often hobbsee gets asked that
<VoX> *cough*
<somerville32> VoX: Want to review my package?
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> Oh wait... were you being dirty? 
<VoX> <_< >_> <_< ...no...
<Hobbsee> somerville32: i think so
<Hobbsee> VoX: heh.  a lot
<Hobbsee> somerville32: okay
<Hobbsee> where is it?
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3616
<tsmithe> ping motu admins!
<Hobbsee> somerville32: that should be a good start
<geser> somerville32: if doing a new package you can use debhelper level 5 (if I'm not mistaken)
<Hobbsee> geser: i put that into my comments :)
<geser> I reloaded the page now
<somerville32> What does the different levels do?
<somerville32> Hobbsee: What do you mean by by "Do all of those depends need to be there, or should there be related build-depends? "?
<Hobbsee> do you know how shlibdeps work?
<somerville32> no
<somerville32> This is my first package
<Hobbsee> ie, if you need those packages to install it, usually you'll need the corresponding -dev packages during compile time.  did you run this though a pbuilder?
<Hobbsee> ah right
<somerville32> Yup
<geser> somerville32: debhelper evolved other the time and the different levels control the behaviour of several debhelper scripts, see also the manpage for debhelper
<Hobbsee> if you have foo-dev as a build dep, shlibdeps will mean that you have foo as an automatic dep
<geser> somerville32: don't ship /usr/sbin if you don't need it
<tsmithe> if a motu admin comes along: could you sync the keyring :) ?
* tsmithe afk
<somerville32> geser: in dirs?
<geser> yes
<somerville32> k
<geser> and you can remove the dependancy on linux
<somerville32> geser: Why?
<siretart> keyring resyncing
<geser> Ubuntu hasn't any other kernel besides linux
<Hobbsee> thanks siretart 
<somerville32> geser: I was specifying a version of the kernel though
<Hobbsee> siretart: seems like we need some more people for that
<Hobbsee> somerville32: what for?
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Specified in the docs
<Hobbsee> somerville32: as in, only runs on 2.6.17 or something?
<somerville32> No
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> >= 2.2
<geser> somerville32: even breezy has a 2.6 kernel
<Hobbsee> you dont need that in there
<somerville32> Oh goodie
<somerville32> Do I need  ${misc:Depends} ?
<siretart> Hobbsee: yes. in principle, everyone with an account on tiber should be able to do that.
<Hobbsee> dont think so
<Hobbsee> siretart: hmmm.  i dont have one of them :P
<geser> somerville32: and you definitely don't want to depends on the server package, all you need is the client (if really needed)
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> What is the client package name?
<geser> you need probably smbfs and/or smbclient
<geser> I haven't checked what your package really needs
<siretart> keyring resynced and pending uploads reprocessed
<Hobbsee> siretart: how does one get REVU powers?
<somerville32> siretart: Maybe we should have a big red button to resync the keychain? :] 
<siretart> somerville32: in fact, it is one sudo call
<siretart> Hobbsee: every motu can request an account on tiber. please mail admin@tiber.tauware.de with some rationale why you think you can use one
<somerville32> Is it possible to check to see if there are new members every once and awhile and then sync automatically?
<Hobbsee> siretart: right.  is "to be able to resync the keyring" a suitable rationale?
<siretart> perhaps we should trigger the resync via cron or something
<Hobbsee> you mean it's not already?
<siretart> no, not yet
<siretart> I didn't expect that so many ppl are joining the contributors groups
<somerville32> siretart: Ubuntu Open Week just occurred
<somerville32> The whole goal was to get people involved :] 
<siretart> given at the time it takes for a package being reviewed
<siretart> somerville32: oh, right. right
<siretart> anyway, I will be the whole next week incredibly busy with job and uni, and I won't be able to do much next week
<siretart> the week after I have more time. will look after revu then
<somerville32> siretart: Can we get the long name of the universe contributor group changed?
<Hobbsee> yay, i can request a sync!
<somerville32> siretart: It looks funny because it is so long.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: ubuntu-universe-contributors?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: and you're asking the wrong person
<somerville32> Isn't he the owner of that group?
<Hobbsee> no
<Hobbsee> not that i know fo
<somerville32> And it isn't the unix name that would be nice to have changed but the long name (or descriptive name) or w/e it is called
<Hobbsee> *of
<siretart> somerville32: the name was choosen on purpose and defined by the revu spec
<siretart> I don't plan to change it. it isn't that important anyway
<somerville32> Hobbsee: And siretart is the owner 
<somerville32> ;] 
<somerville32> siretart: k
<Hobbsee> ohhh...i'm confusing contributors and sponsors
<somerville32> I just thought it might look better as "Universe package contributors" or something
<somerville32> no biggie
<somerville32> Anyhow, I gotta take the dog out to pee.
<somerville32> I'll upload my fixs to that package in a sec
<sladen> Hobbsee/tsmithe: if you need ops on the channel, just ask ChanServ for them...
<sladen> the access-level is intentionally zero
<Hobbsee> sladen: [01:35]  [Notice]  -ChanServ- An access level of [10]  is required for [OP]  on #ubuntu-motu
<Hobbsee> sladen: that doesnt work anymore
<sladen> oh FFS, has somebody been meddling *twice* in the last week
<Hobbsee> fun
<sladen> that was been changed since November 23rd, which was the previous time somebody asked the Freenode team to meddle with it
<Hobbsee> ugh
<Hobbsee> !backports
<ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
* somerville32 thinks he has hurt his spine.
<somerville32> Hobbsee: Building package. Will you be able to review try #3? :] 
<Hobbsee> maybe
<somerville32> Oh crap
<somerville32> I uploaded it and I forgot to fix the clean up script
<somerville32> *rule
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> fix it, upload again
<somerville32> Wait...
<somerville32> Those files are being placed there in the clean rule
* somerville32 boggles.
<tsmithe> is there an admin about?
<somerville32> Already synced tsmithe
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> who do i thank?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: then remove that section?
* somerville32 did.
<Hobbsee> ah
* Hobbsee beds
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> uploaded
* tsmithe waits 5 minutes for the upload to show up
<tsmithe> siretart, you synced the keyring right?
<somerville32> Can someone review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3628
<siretart> tsmithe: right. what did you upload
<siretart> ?
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk
<tsmithe> i just wanted to thank you for syncing
<tsmithe> also, my upload doesn't show on the page
<siretart> it shouldn't be necessary to sync manually. but also revu2 should already be done, so in some ways, I suck
<siretart> tsmithe: it doesn't show up in the rejected folder either
<tsmithe> weird
<siretart> tsmithe: are you absolutely sure you uploaded to tiber and not to uploads.ubuntu.com?
<tsmithe> found it
<tsmithe> it was there
<tsmithe> i refreshed the page
<tsmithe> :D
<siretart> ok
<tsmithe> can someone review it?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3620
<tsmithe> i think it's bad
<tsmithe> hang on
<somerville32> You're package doesn't conform to debian python policy :] 
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> why's that?
<somerville32> use ${pyton:Depends}
<tsmithe> in where?
<somerville32> Err..
<tsmithe> Build-depends?
<somerville32> ${python:Depends}
<tsmithe> depends?
<somerville32> Yeah
<tsmithe> build-depends then?
<somerville32> no
<somerville32> depends
<somerville32> Replace python and what not with that
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> ok
<somerville32> You're using cdbs for that?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> and?
<somerville32> Kind of overkill
<tsmithe> it's easier
<tsmithe> it also has this error: You've specified an unknown `target distribution' for your upload in the debian/changelog file.
<tsmithe> but what's wrong with what i have?
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk (1.0) feisty; urgency=low
<somerville32> Ignore that error
* somerville32 trys installing his own package and fears.
<tsmithe> right... re-uploading
* tsmithe waits 5 minutes
<tsmithe> damn
<tsmithe> i forgot to rebuild
* tsmithe hits himself
<rmjb> Happy Sunday all... for those of you for which Monday has not yet arrived
<tsmithe> happy sunday rmjb 
<somerville32> rmjb: Are you a MOTU reviewer?
<rmjb> heh, no I'm just a hopeful, like you I guess
<tsmithe> right...
* tsmithe uploads again
<somerville32> Who do you usually get to review your stuff?
* tsmithe waits 5 minutes
<rmjb> I think this OpenWeek brought in a good bit of MOTU hopefuls, I hope the MOTU's can handle us
<rmjb> I have 2 packages on REVU, I got LaserJock to review 1 and the other I emailed the ubuntu-motu list and someone reviewed that one
<somerville32> mwolson: MOTU Reviewer?
<rmjb> I need a follow up review now though, but I'll wait around and see
<rmjb> somerville32: you using xchat?
<phanatic> somerville32: what do you want to be reviewed?
<somerville32> rmjb: Yup. Why?
<somerville32> phanatic: I'll get the link.
<rmjb> you can tell ubuntu members by the text that comes up when they sign in, like phanatic here : n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic
<mwolson> somerville32: i'm not a MOTU reviewer, if that's what you were asking
<phanatic> rmjb: but that doesn't mean i'm a motu ;)
<rmjb> I know
<rmjb> but it'll narrow down those to pounce on
<phanatic> rmjb: but you're right... if someone is not a member, he cannot be a motu either :)
<phanatic> (or she of course :))
<rmjb> of course
<somerville32> So, are you a MOTU Reviewer? :P
<phanatic> somerville32: yes, i can review your upload, but cannot advocate it (yet)
<phanatic> hey ivoks :)
<ivoks> phanatic: hi
* tsmithe uploads again
* tsmithe waits the requisite 5 minutes
<somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3633
<rmjb> somerville32: I'm looking at your package too
<rmjb> the debian/menu file
<rmjb> what's that for?
<tsmithe> so... who want's to review my package?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3634
<tsmithe> PriceChild, you wanna review my package?
<somerville32> rmbj: Debian memu entr
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3634
<rmjb> somerville32: hmm... wonder if I should include one in my package...
<PriceChild> tsmithe: I'm not MOTU :)
<PriceChild> tsmithe: I'm no-where near being a motu :)
<PriceChild> ever :P
<rmjb> tsmithe: you should only ask those persons that are ubuntu members, you can tell they are members by the text that comes up when they sign into the chat like phanatic n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic
<geser> tsmithe: if the package isn't Ubuntu specific don't make it a native package (even if you are upstream)
<rmjb> of course not all ubuntu members in this channel are MOTU
<tsmithe> rmjb: ok
<tsmithe> geser, how do you mean?
<geser> create a diff.gz with the contents from the debian/ dir
<geser> don't ship the debian/ dir in the orig.tar.gz
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> i don't know how to do that :(
<phanatic> rmjb, somerville32: debian/menu is not essential... a .desktop file is more important since that's freedesktop standard
<tsmithe> i was using galternatives as an example, and worked from that
<rmjb> tsmithe: did you go through the excellent ubuntu packaging guide?
<rmjb> !packaging guide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<tsmithe> rmjb, yes :(
<geser> tsmithe: galternatives is not a wise choice as an example
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> why is that?
<tsmithe> it's in universe...
<geser> the alternative system is Debian/Ubuntu specific, you won't find it on other distributions
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> but i fail to see why that makes it a poor example
<geser> therefore galternatives doesn't split the debian changes into a diff.gz
<geser> this is called a native package
<tsmithe> and native packages are bad?
<geser> not in itself but for an example of packaging
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> so how do i split off a .diff.gz?
<geser> if you have an orig.tar.gz without debian/ dpkg-buildpackage will put all changes (e.g. the files in debian/) into a diff.gz
<tsmithe> this is confusing
<tsmithe> all i am doing is running debuild -S -sa in the source directory
<tsmithe> then uploading with dput
<tsmithe> so how do i get an orig.tar.gz without debian/
<geser> in most cases the tar.gz you can download from upstream doesn't have a debian/ dir
<tsmithe> this is my own application
<tsmithe> i created the debian dir
<tsmithe> was this unwise?
<geser> only if you ship it in the orig.tar.gz
<tsmithe> but how do i get an orig.tar.gz?
<tsmithe> debuild spits out asoundconf-gtk_1.0.dsc
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.build
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.changes
<tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0.tar.gz
<geser> first you should name the tar.gz asoundconf-gtk_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<geser> debuild should create then a diff.gz which should be empty in your case
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> then how do i go about splitting the debian/ dir off?
<geser> it should be there (in the orig.tar.gz) in the first place
<tsmithe> but you said to split it off into a .diff.gz
<tsmithe> should i build the archive without the debian dir, then add it into the dir, and debuild will put it into .diff.gz
<geser> yes
<tsmithe> thanks :)
<tsmithe> yay!
<tsmithe> thanks ever so much
<tsmithe> i've uploaded the new package
* tsmithe waits
<somerville32> geser: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3633 ? ")
<somerville32> *:)
<tsmithe> my latest upload, ready for review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3636
<tsmithe> :-)
<geser> somerville32: some files have a copyright year 2005-2006, you should put it into debian/copyright
<geser> and the email adress is different but I don't if it matters
<geser> tsmithe: looks much better now
<tsmithe> yay!
<rmjb> geser: can you review mine?
<rmjb> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3592
<geser> I can look at it but I'm not a MOTU (yet)
<rmjb> oh... well I welcome your feedback
<tsmithe> so, to get into universe, what needs to happen?
<geser> tsmithe: two MOTUs need to advocate it
<tsmithe> ok
* tsmithe waits impatiently for motus
<geser> tsmithe: don't depend on packages that don't exist (alsa)
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> i was sure that did exist
<geser> change the DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_galternatives in your rules :)
<tsmithe> oops
<tsmithe> i thought i had
<tsmithe> !
* tsmithe reuploads
<geser> and you can use debhelper level 5
<tsmithe> what does that mean
<geser> it's about the features debhelper may use (see man debhelper about the different levels)
* tsmithe re-uploads again
<tsmithe> oops
<tsmithe> the other is still on the queue
* tsmithe waits for it to run away
<tsmithe> right that's better
* tsmithe waits impatiently for it to get off the queue
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> who wants to review (and advocate if possible): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3638
<tsmithe> oh bugger
* tsmithe needs to upload again
<tsmithe> it's so finickity
<somerville32> geeser: What e-mail?
<rmjb> somerville32: I notice you sometimes misspell a person's nick, and if you don't have it exactly right they wont get a *ping*...
<somerville32> lol
<rmjb> and easy way to always get it right is to type the first couple characters of their name then hit the TAB key
<rmjb> try it out on me
<somerville32> rmjb: I've been up for 24 hours now
<rmjb> you need to get some sleep
<geser> somerville32: the email mentioned in copyright statement in e.g. http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/pyneighborhood-0612031025/pyneighborhood-0.3/mainwindow.py
<rmjb> but using the TAB completion you'll always spell the names right, even when sleepy :)
<tsmithe> somerville32, yeah... you said you were going to sleep hours ago!
<somerville32> geser: Both are his -email
<geser> therefore I said I don't know if it matters if the email-address in your debian/copyright differs from the one mentioned in his copyright statements
<geser> probably not
<tsmithe> any motus around?
<tsmithe> wanna advocate my package?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3639
<siretart> is this dh_python and dh_pysupport stuff really required when using cdbs?
<tsmithe> i'm not really sure
<tsmithe> does it hurt?
* siretart thought the point of cdbs was to hide such details :/
<siretart> well, it hurts my eyes when I see such things. thats bad enough
<tsmithe> looking at the debuild output, it seems to need it
<tsmithe> but it doesn't need dh_python
<tsmithe> that's deprecated
<siretart> I'm no cdbs expert either
<tsmithe> but i'm pretty sure it needs dh_pysupport
<siretart> well, my londonlaw package did manage it without that explicit dh_pysupport call.
<siretart> but I'm using python-central instead
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> well, i've uploaded one without dh_python, if that's what you want
<tsmithe> siretart, hang on
<tsmithe> i'm just looking at the cdbs docs
<somerville32> siretart: Isn't that required with the new debian python policy?
<tsmithe> siretart, looks like i can do it all with cdbs
<siretart> somerville32: there are several problems here. one is the new python policy, the other one is cdbs :/
<siretart> since cdbs is supposed to make packaging easy [tm] , it should hide such silly details. the fact that it doesn't means to me that cdbs sucks badly here
<tsmithe> siretart, without dy_pysupport i need a setup.py file
<tsmithe> it's much easier to just use dh_pysupport
<tsmithe> so i would definitely prefer to not have to have a setup.py
<siretart> great!
<tsmithe> so is that alright?
<siretart> tsmithe: I'd suggest that you document such things in debian/rules as comments, for reference for potential revuiereviewers
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> i'll just do that, then upload agin
<tsmithe> *again
<tsmithe> ok that's uploaded
<somerville32> siretart: Are you available to review my package? :] 
<siretart> somerville32: ask me after dec. 12
<somerville32> Nicktu: Are you a MOTU Reviewer?
<tsmithe> siretart, if you want, here's the latest link: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
<somerville32> Can anyone review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3642
<somerville32> :)
<tsmithe> somerville32, that makes two of us ;)
<rmjb> three
<somerville32> We gotta get these motu folks in shape!
<somerville32> :] 
<rmjb> try mailing the ubuntu-motu list
* tsmithe has
<rmjb> yeah I saw that
<tsmithe> cool
<tsmithe> now all i need is a motu to
<rmjb> you all are subscribed to that list right?
* tsmithe is, obviously
<tsmithe> 143 people in here and only four awake
<rmjb> you can mail the list without being subscribed
<tsmithe> well
<tsmithe> i subscribed anyway
<tsmithe> gets rid of the overhead of approving messages
* somerville32 isn't subscribed.
<somerville32> I'm already subscribed to like a million mailing lists, haha.
<somerville32> Is anything important really going to come through on ubuntu-motu list?
<tsmithe> any motus about?
<tsmithe> phanatic, you wouldn't happen to be a motu, would you?
<somerville32> A MOTU Reviewer
<tsmithe> what he said
<phanatic> tsmithe: i'm just a reviewer, but not a motu yet
<tsmithe> well... do you wanna review my package anyway?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
<imbrandon> tsmithe: you must rember this is sunday afternoon and nearing the holiday season
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> moins all
<tsmithe> imbrandon, do you wann review my package :P?
<imbrandon> tsmithe: sure PM me the url and i'll revu it sometime today
<imbrandon> when i get a moment
<somerville32> imbrandon, Can I pm you my package too?
<imbrandon> somerville32: sure, dont expect them revu'd in 30 minutes, but i promise i'll do a round today :)
<imbrandon> :)
<phanatic> tsmithe: as soon as i get to it, i'll have a look at it
<tsmithe> thanks, phanatic 
<imbrandon> ok food time bbiab
<Adri2000> Fujitsu: piiiiiiiiiing? :)
<gandalfn> hello, i pushed packages on REVU and would like update them. how do I have to proceed ? must only remake a dput on REVU ? change ubuntu release ?
<somerville32> dput -f *.changes
<gandalfn> somerville32: ok thanks 
<somerville32> Gloubiboulga, Could you review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3644
<Gloubiboulga> somerville32: added on TODO, I have to go
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> :] 
<amnesia> hi
<somerville32> Hi
<Simon80> who else can review? lol
<somerville32> We need more Motu Reviewers :(
<Simon80> yeah, eh
<Simon80> my package is good! review it and you'll get in shape!
<Simon80> or your fingers will, lol
<Sp4rKy> hi
<tsmithe> somerville32, how's the reviewing going?
<tsmithe> damn I was too late to catch Gloubiboulga 
<tsmithe> Simon80, what's your package
<Simon80> stepmania
<Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
<tsmithe> dance simulation eh?
<tsmithe> what does that entail?
<sivang> tsmithe: that's much more then that!
<Simon80> tsmith: you know about Dance Dance revolution?
* sivang notes stepmania is like the killer app of the 21st century
<tsmithe> nope
<Simon80> haha
<Simon80> @ sivang
* sivang LOVES DDR
<Simon80> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4541251344823958386
<sivang> although I'm  a MOTU, I'm not sure if I can review your package as I'm not registered in the review login
<Simon80> I picked that cause it's ridiculous
<sivang> any MOTU admin around /
<tsmithe> sivang, can you review mine?
<somerville32> Sp4rKy, are you a MOTU reviewer?
<Simon80> tsmithe: see above, lol
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
<sivang> Simon80: you serious? becuase it's redicilous ?
<tsmithe> sivang: surely you can log in? :)
<Simon80> haha, no that video
<Simon80> I picked stepmania cause I want stepmania
<Simon80> but I picked that video cause it's ridiculous
<Simon80> and then the guy gets a AA, too
<Simon80> I personally have my own pad and all, I don't think DDR is ridiculous, just really geeky
<somerville32> sivange: Just recover your password then
<tsmithe> hi geser
<Simon80> lmao: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8718199435863453649&q=dance+dance+revolution
<sivang> Simon80: stepmani is DA THING
<Simon80> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4232287009115643915&q=dance+dance+revolution
<Simon80> that's the last one I'll link to.. it's just the best illustration of what DDR is to people who have never seen it
<Simon80> plus, that 5 yo is like, pretty good, lol
* tsmithe doesn't have flash
<tsmithe> and is not going to install it
<Simon80> tsmithe can click on the download links
<tsmithe> meh
<tsmithe> cant be bothered
<Simon80> you don't need flash to see google video
<somerville32> sivang: Common'. Review our packages :P
<tsmithe> yeah
<Simon80> revu!
<Simon80> lol
<tsmithe> we need you
<rmjb> wow, three people looking for reviewers now... not counting me... what has Open Week done!
<tsmithe> this isn't a result of open week
<tsmithe> my package is a result of two things
<tsmithe> a) my desire to learn python
<Sp4rKy> somerville32: no i'm not
<somerville32> :(
<tsmithe> b) my want for a gui application to switch default alsa sound card
<Simon80> tsmith: gnome has one of those
<tsmithe> i'm in xfce ;)
<Simon80> I think...
<tsmithe> gnome does
<tsmithe> i wanted to replicate it
<tsmithe> so i did :)
<Simon80> rmjb: nothing to do with open week, I'm a long time user who just wants stepmania
<Simon80> and is tired of compiling it
<rmjb> actually I wanted reviewers before Open Week too
<tsmithe> so where are these new reviews who have come as a result of open week!
<somerville32> It's Sunday :] 
<tsmithe> so
<tsmithe> ubuntu is a volunteer thing
<somerville32> Only real geeks come out on Sunday
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<somerville32> Ubuntu isn't a volunteer thing :P
<tsmithe> i'm a volunteer
<rmjb> yep it is
<tsmithe> are motus paid?
<somerville32> Paid devs don't come out on the weekends
<somerville32> Thats why it is so quite
<rmjb> only a handful of people are paid, and most of those are core-devs, not motus
<tsmithe> volunteers with nothing better to do (ie me) come out on sunday. especially when it gets dark at 4pm
<rmjb> maybe only dholbach is a paid motu
<sivang> sorry guys, it seems I can't login and I'm a bit busy at the moment anyways, but nice going on the stepmania thing - I happen to have used it myself from source on Ubuntu
<Simon80> yep
<Simon80> well, no more
<Simon80> my package is the answer, lol
<tsmithe> sivang, recover your password? :P pleeease
<tsmithe> with you and imbrandon reviewing and hopefully advocating my package it should get into universe soon
<tsmithe> :)
<zul> argh we have jehovah's witnesses living on my street
<tsmithe> haha
<Simon80> oh, here comes another review request, lol
<somerville32> zul: That sounds like an excellent discussion for -offtopic :] 
<Simon80> hahaha
<Simon80>  !offtopic4offtopic
<ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
<Simon80> I'm just throwing that out to laugh about, I don't mean it
* tsmithe needs motu reviewers
* Simon80 needs motu reviewers
<elektranox> is the correct distri for the changelog file "feisty" or "Feisty"?
<Simon80> feisty
<Simon80> apt-get source existing packages and you'll see
<tsmithe> finalbeta, are /you/ a motu reviewer?
* tsmithe is hopeful
* tsmithe will probs be disappointed
<finalbeta> no I'm not
* tsmithe wasn't cos he was expecting it
<Simon80> he's not even a member, man
<elektranox> mh I got an mail that I've no rights to this distribution :/
<tsmithe> Simon80, so?
<tsmithe> elektranox, you're uploading to the wrong place
<tsmithe> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<Simon80> how could he be a MOTU without being a member
<tsmithe> Simon80, i dunno :|
<Simon80> elektranox:  dput revu *.changes, not just dput *.changes
<tsmithe> elektranox, "If you are not an Ubuntu developer, you can set REVU as the default host for dput by modifying the [DEFAULT]  section in dput.cf. This way, you don't need to specify what host to use when using dput to upload.
<tsmithe>   default_host_main = revu
<tsmithe> "
<luks> hi. if i have a package in debian, what would be the best way to get it uploaded to ubuntu?
<tsmithe> request a sync
<tsmithe> or merge
<luks> ehm, but how?
<tsmithe> look in wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<tsmithe> it'll be there somewhere
<tsmithe> hang on
<tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging ?
<somerville32> sync
<somerville32> You want a sync
<zul> ajmitch: must kill..
<somerville32> 0_o
<tsmithe> i would have thought a sync
<tsmithe> but i couldn't find a wiki page for it
<tsmithe> and that one reads "Merging and Syncing from Debian: Introduction"
<luks> i think i'm kinda lost in the MOTU pages on the wiki
<luks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging is more a technical information about how to do it, which is not exactly what i'm looking for
<somerville32> File a bug
<somerville32> And ask for it to be synced
<somerville32> Subscribe the archive team
<geser> not until you are a motu
<somerville32> If it is in debian, it should have already been synced to Feisty though
<luks> yep, i thought about that, but a bug to which package
<siretart> luks: is your package already in ubuntu?
<luks> no
<siretart> luks: then wait a few days. the syncs are triggered manually
<siretart> luks: I assume the archive admins are currently busy with herd-1
<luks> but i still don't know how to request the sync :)
<geser> as a non-motu subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get an ACK from a MOTU
<tsmithe> poke a motu?
<luks> is there some kind of pseudo-package for sync requests in Malone?
<siretart> luks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources contains the instructions for syncs
<siretart> please obey them
<geser> tsmithe: you can also try to poke a motu
<tsmithe> hi siretart: wanna advocate my package?
<sivang> siretart: how can I become a review for universe?
<luks> siretart: thanks
<sivang> siretart: I mean, from the REVU POV
<siretart> tsmithe: sorry, i'm terribly busy atm
<sivang> siretart: ah, talk later then, cheers
<tsmithe> awh
<siretart> sivang: I can set your status. what's your revu login?
<sivang> siretart: sivang ?
<sivang> (I think)
<tsmithe> it's your e-mail address i thought
<Simon80> yeah
<siretart> no, its always an email address
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> it's your launchpad email anyhow, no?
<somerville32> No, gpg e-mail address
<sivang> siretart: then sivanATubuntu.com should be it
<siretart> there is no such user
<sivang> siretart: ah, then I should probably create one sometime soon, anyways this can continue later when you are less busy
<Simon80> sivan or sivang?
<Simon80> at ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> hi
<somerville32> ajmitch!!!!!
<somerville32> :D
<sivang> indeed, ajmitch :)
<ajmitch> yeah, right
* ajmitch steps back
<tsmithe> hi ajmitch
<sivang> now this is the guy you want to review your packages ;)
<tsmithe> can you review my package???
<ajmitch> no
* sivang runs away :p
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
<somerville32> Can you review my package... please? :)
<tsmithe> please?
* ajmitch leaves
<Simon80> I would agree, sivanf, but ajmitch hasn't reviewed my package yet, lol
<tsmithe> oh no don't do that :)
<Simon80> sivang*
<somerville32> ajmitch: Can you atleast set sivang up so we can review packages? :] 
<Simon80> but my package makes you fit!
<siretart> sivang: done
<sivang> siretart: oh dear :)
* sivang runs twice as fast
<tsmithe> sivang: :D
<tsmithe> please
* somerville32 cries from the lack of MOTU attention.
* tsmithe weeps as well
<tsmithe> hi imbrandon
<Simon80> stepmania and stepmania-data: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
<imbrandon> hello tsmithe 
<Simon80> hello imbrandon
<Simon80> lol
<imbrandon> heya Simon80 
* somerville32 sings "Where o' where did all the MOTUs go?"
<Simon80> we're all whining about not having our packages reviewed
<tsmithe> sivang seems to have run away
<rmjb> you guys are really persistent
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> I wanna get my killer app into feisty
<Simon80> well, not MINE
<tsmithe> rmjb: ^ what he said
<tsmithe> but it is mine
<rmjb> me too, but feisty's far off, you have until the Upstream Version Freeze to get it in
<rmjb> !release schedule
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about release schedule - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<rmjb> !feisty
<ubotu> The next version of Ubuntu (7.04; codenamed "Feisty Fawn"), it should be released in April 2007. At the moment it is pre-alpha. Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule - Specifications (goals): https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty - Help in #ubuntu+1
<elektranox> when does the packages appear in launchpad?
<somerville32> Amaranth_, Are you a MOTU (reviewer)?
<Amaranth_> no
<tsmithe> awh poo
<imbrandon> somerville32: no he isnt
<somerville32> imbrandon: Did you get a chance to review my package yet? :] 
<tsmithe> or me
<tsmithe> pester pester
<imbrandon> somerville32: you can get a list of MOTU's at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<Lutin> Hi
<imbrandon> no i dident, it will be later today
<imbrandon> hello Lutin 
<Lutin> hello imbrandon
<tsmithe> uhoh another package for review?
<imbrandon> ( somerville32: and https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev too )
<imbrandon> tsmithe: there is normaly a few dozzen packages to get reviewed at any one time :) and we set days aside to go through them all, but i'll make a round today like i promised :)
<somerville32> imbrandon: Can I bug any of those people to sponsor my package?
<tsmithe> imbrandon, thanks :)
<ajmitch> jumping on people as soon as they say hello is a good way to scare them off
<imbrandon> somerville32: for the most part , if you do it nicely :)
<tsmithe> hi ajmitch :P
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<rmjb> ajmitch: yes it is
<ajmitch> hey imbrandon, what's up?
<imbrandon> nadda, enjoying my days off, and reloading my home file server, just got a new 500GB hdd for my b-day so i'm adding it to the file server :)
<imbrandon> and preparing a box to move imbrandon.com to
<ajmitch> fun
<imbrandon> heh yea
<imbrandon> btw happy early b-day to me ,hehehe
<tsmithe> yeah: happy birthday!
<tsmithe> heya ajmitch: could you join imbrandon in possibly reviewing my package :)
<tsmithe> pretty please
<imbrandon> still umm 16 more days , but i start early :)
<ajmitch> tsmithe: you asked only a few minutes ago
<tsmithe> sorry :(
<tsmithe> feels like ages here
<ajmitch> 15 minutes!
<tsmithe> yeah: ages!
<imbrandon> tsmithe: dont worry bro , it will get done, it does take days ( weeks ? ) some time, part of it is being patient
<imbrandon> :)
* tsmithe is not very good at being patient
<tsmithe> as you can probably see
* rmjb sees that
<tsmithe> yeah
<somerville32> tsmithe: Why not try your hand at another package? :] 
<imbrandon> just rember one thing and you will be golden, 90% or better of us do this in our spare time :)
<tsmithe> what thing is that?
<tsmithe> oh
* tsmithe is an idiot
<tsmithe> i know
<tsmithe> i only said earlier: Ubuntu is a volunteer project ;)
<imbrandon> :)
<rmjb> anyhow, off to work for me
<imbrandon> later rmjb 
<somerville32> imbrandon: It is just that I spent ALL night working on my package and so I'm anxious to see if I did it right so that I can move on and package more stuff.
<tsmithe> to quote me: <tsmithe> ubuntu is a volunteer thing
<tsmithe> <somerville32> Only real geeks come out on Sunday
<tsmithe> <Sp4rKy> ^^
<tsmithe> <somerville32> Ubuntu isn't a volunteer thing :P
<tsmithe> <tsmithe> i'm a volunteer
<tsmithe> <rmjb> yep it is
<tsmithe> <tsmithe> are motus paid?
<tsmithe> <somerville32> Paid devs don't come out on the weekends
<tsmithe> <somerville32> Thats why it is so quite
<tsmithe> <rmjb> only a handful of people are paid, and most of those are core-devs, not motus
<imbrandon> somerville32: right on, i feel yea bro, just give it more than 15 minutes between asking for people to look at it ( general rule of thumb i try to follow is once every 2 hours max )
<tsmithe> but you don't need to ask (luck devil)!
<somerville32> Do I get e-mailed on updates or do I have to check manually?
<imbrandon> tsmithe: not true there are core dev's like me and ajmitch that arent paid :)
<imbrandon> and crimsun and lots of others
<imbrandon> :)
<tsmithe> it wasn't me that said that ;)
<imbrandon> somerville32: not yet, you have to check
* tsmithe points at rmjb on his way to work
<zul> guys you have to be patient alot of people spend time with their families on the weekend the review will get done
<somerville32> imbrandon: Is REVU programmed in Python?
<imbrandon> yes mostly, iirc there are a few shell scripts that run it too
<zul> hey imbrandon 
<somerville32> Is REVU open source?
<imbrandon> heya zul 
<imbrandon> somerville32: yes
<zul> happy early bday btw
<somerville32> Is it on lp.net?
<imbrandon> the source is in a bzr branch on LP
<imbrandon> zul: thanks
<ajmitch> somerville32: yes, yes, yes
<imbrandon> hrm LVM or non-LVM
<imbrandon> tough choice
<tsmithe> non-LVM ... backwards-compatibility?
<tsmithe> easier to configure... ?
<imbrandon> why would i care about backwards compat or easy to setup when i only have to mess with it once or twice a year , if that :)
<imbrandon> only when i add storage to the computer is the only time it reboots ( its a file server )
<tsmithe> well then use lvm!
<imbrandon> :)
<somerville32> Can I help contribute to the development of revu?
<tsmithe> my subversive persuasion wins again
<imbrandon> somerville32: YES,ANYONE IS WELCOME TO
<imbrandon> gah caps
<imbrandon> sorry
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> what's revu2 all about?
<imbrandon> the caps lock key should be banned from the keyboard
<somerville32> : (
<imbrandon> revu2 is the next version of revu :)
<Simon80> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPSLOCK I USE IT ALL THE TIME BUT I ALSO DONT LIKE PUNCTUATION IT IS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT
<tsmithe> i knew that
<imbrandon> and revu2.5 or revu3 will be intergrated into LP :)
<tsmithe> sounds good
<tsmithe> a bit of lp that's open!
* Simon80 's eyes bleed
* imbrandon /kicks Simon80 
<Simon80> @lart imbrandon
<Simon80> cmon bot, do my bidding!
<imbrandon> not in here
<Simon80> :(
<imbrandon> only in -offtopicish chans
<zul> for those new people did i mention that imbrandon likes shakira ;)
<imbrandon> hahah
<Simon80> lol
<imbrandon> zul: you rock :P
<zul> i do :)
<imbrandon> heya serousily how is xen on amd64x2's vs core 2 duo's ? is there much of a diffrence in support ?
<imbrandon> zul: ^
<imbrandon> it probably will impact my next computer purchace this month ( bday and xmas present all in one )
<zul> imbrandon: heh there is some issues with 2.6.17 on amd64 and xen that im trying to work through
<tsmithe> intel support open source!
<zul> but i would go for core 2 duos
<imbrandon> zul: kk 
<imbrandon> on that note, brb, my file server needs some love for a moment, bbias
* jdong wishes he too had a no-windows-support policy :)
<tsmithe> hi jdong
<jdong> anyone else seen a spyware-infested laptop boot to 450 processes?
<tsmithe> urgh
<tsmithe> install ubuntu for them
<jdong> it took around 45 minutes
<jdong> tsmithe: not a viable option unfortunately
<tsmithe> why's that? with that much spyware they can't be doing anything unusual
<jdong> Flash developer, and Radeon Xpress chipset too
<tsmithe> woah
<jdong> two death sentences to Linux
<tsmithe> yup
<tsmithe> until gnash is decent
<tsmithe> or adobe does a sun
<sivang> okay, who's the stepmania dude? :)
<jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
<jdong> lost connection
<jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
<jdong> lost connection
<jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
<jdong> lost connection
<jdong> wonderful :)
<Simon80> me
* jdong smacks his DNS server
<Simon80> sivang: me ^^
<sivang> Simon80: so simon, have you taken a look at at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/stepmania-0612020415/lintian ?
<jdong> no, my DNS server looks fine
<Simon80> yeah
<imbrandon> jdong: buntudot is fine, i'm on it now
<sivang> Simon80: can you try to make this errors go away for starters?
<jdong> imbrandon: interesting :)
<Simon80> W: stepmania source: newer-standards-version 3.7.2
<Simon80> I can't make THAT go away
<jdong> imbrandon: works now... :)
<tsmithe> Simon80, you can't: it's a lintian thing
<Simon80> tsmithe: read what I said, lol
<sivang> Simon80: well, let's start with the ones you can make go away , like the cvs stuff for instance
<Simon80> yeah, but then my diff gets crufty
* jdong takes the overkill way out and loads on F-Secure AV....
<sivang> Simon80: ignore the standards version
<Simon80> sivang: I was ignoring that
<sivang> Simon80: okay, cool, now why exactly you can't remove the cvs cruft from the package?
<Simon80> and also ignoring the feisty complaint
<Simon80> sivang: cause then my diff gains some functionally useless changes
<Simon80> that's all
<sivang> Simon80: okay, is it too much to make it go away? I mean, your source package should not include in RCS leftovers what-so-ver
<Simon80> sivang: okokok
<Simon80> it's the orig's fault though, as you can see in my diff
<imbrandon> Simon80: you should still clean it up imho and then stab upstream to do the same
<Simon80> it seems that's the consensus
<Simon80> as you can see, my opinion is that it doesn't interfere with the diff, and so it's pretty anal to make a fuss over it
<Simon80> but I'll remove them
<Simon80> with the build*
<imbrandon> Simon80: alot of packageing is anal :)
<sivang> Simon80: and I was going to say that, but imbrandon said it already
<imbrandon> but still correct none the less
<sivang> Simon80: has to be anal, or else complete system will fall apart like domino bricks
<Simon80> lol
<sivang> Simon80: that's dead serious :)
<jdong> crikey! The spyware is trying to propagate through my network.
<Simon80> sivang: by definition, I use anal to refer to cases where you could have ignored it without such a catastrophe occurring... that's why it's anal to care
<sivang> Simon80: tell Chris that he should prepare source distros without the cvs cruft, IIRC there's something in make distclean for that :p
<imbrandon> you have a computer that is known to have spyware and its still has a network cable on it ?
<imbrandon> jdong: ?
* jdong puts guest wifi segment on evil iptables + transparent squid lockdown
<jdong> imbrandon: how else do I load the ANTI spyware on :D
<Simon80> sivang: make distclean didn't clean it, or it wouldn't be there
<ajmitch> Simon80: there's a lot of things we could turn a blind eye to, but it doesn't mean we should
<imbrandon> cdrom / usbkey
<jdong> imbrandon: pfft that takes more effort :)
<jdong> and F-Secure's freakin installer demands network access
<imbrandon> time to find a new program then
<Simon80> ajmitch: my question is, why not? it's not going to change the resulting binary package at all
<tsmithe> that's proprietary for you
<Simon80> so it's pure nitpicking
<jku> how do postinst/postrm/etc scripts get included in the package? What should I do in debian/rules?
<imbrandon> Simon80: the resulting binary isnt all we care about :)
<Simon80> but the cruft will remain in the diff!
<Simon80> like a wart!
<imbrandon> no , you remake the diff after its cleaned from the orig
<sivang> jku: usually, you include something like $pkg-name.{postinst,preinst,..} in debian/
<imbrandon> !package guide | jku 
<ubotu> jku: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<Simon80> that's what I mean, and then the cruft appears in it
<Simon80> lol
<imbrandon> Simon80: not if its not in the orig, no it wont
<sivang> jku: then you could call a cdbs target that would take care of installing them, or just use dh_install
<Simon80> imbrandon: it IS in the orig
<sivang> jku: but plesae refer to the packaging guide for further explenations
<imbrandon> Simon80: exactly, TAKE IT OUT
<Simon80> um... repack the orig????????????
<Simon80> over cruft???????
<Simon80> this is just crazy
<sivang> Simon80: then bug upstream to make sure cvs cruft is not included in it
<tsmithe> i thought the orig wasn't supposed to deviate from upstream?
<jku> hmm, I was trying to find out how to do it without cdbs or dh... but I'll go RTM now.
<sivang> tsmithe: not in most of the cases, but sometime there's a corner case
<imbrandon> tsmithe: there are cases it should and then you poke upstream to do the same
<tsmithe> and this is one
<Simon80> this wouldn't be what I call a corner case
<imbrandon> right
<Simon80> there are real reasons not to repack, and this wouldn't outweigh those
<imbrandon> Simon80: it is, and just as dfsg is too
<Simon80> dfsg is a reason, but this doesn't have any functional benefit, unlike dfsg
<imbrandon> Simon80: its not about outweighing them, its about the quality of whats in the repo
<Simon80> blargh
<sivang> imbrandon: the repo should not include cvs/bzr/snv/whatever cruft even if it's included upstream, it's bad enough that upstream has it
<sivang> s/snv/svn/
<imbrandon> sivang: right, i totaly agree
* sivang hugs imbrandon 
<imbrandon> and upstream should be smaked to get it removed as well
<imbrandon> Simon80: thats part of the job as packaging
<imbrandon> :)
<sivang> just what I Was going to say ;)
<sivang> thing is, we need to not only be willing to use upstream's packages, but also to help them make it of higher quality if we see fit
<imbrandon> Simon80: dont feel singled out, EVERYONE has had to go through this
* sivang nods
<Simon80> yeah, I know, I just think that it's more important to care about the package putting prefs in ~/.package than to worry about cvs cruft
<Simon80> the cruft doesn't matter at all
<fdoving> there are no rules (in debian anyway) that i could find some time ago, about removing rcs files from source packages. sometimes it's even desireable to have them included.
* jdong quibbles at getdeb.net......
<imbrandon> Simon80: thats the thing, they are both equaly as important
<Simon80> no they aren't!
<Simon80> one of them results in a package being broken for the user
<imbrandon> Simon80: to you maybe, but to the project as whole
<Simon80> the project has messed up priorities then, because the users are priority #1
<Simon80> any other concern should be viewed in light of how it helps developers help users
<Simon80> and this actually detracts from that
<sivang> Simon80: could you please give an example of removing rcs files breaking an app? if this is the case, this package would not even get included in debian/ubuntnu from the first place
<Simon80> sivang: you misunderstood
<ajmitch> you're making a huge fuss over a 30-second job
<imbrandon> ajmitch: exactly
<Simon80> ajmitch: 30 sec if I don't screw up
<siretart> bah! 50 mails alone in the last few hours on motu-reviewers mailing list
<ajmitch> yes, there have been several uploads of the same package
<imbrandon> heya siretart 
<siretart> heyho imbrandon, hi ajmitch 
<Simon80> sivang: not having prefs in the home dir is broken, but leaving cruft in has absolutely no negative consequences, therefore fixing the first issue is of greater importance
<Simon80> and I really don't think it's necessary to go bug upstream about redoing a year old release tarball because debian devs are squeamish about cruft, cause I'm pretty sure the average person will think it's anal too
<siretart> Simon80: right. but removing cruft is quite easy and not likely to break stuff, while being very obvious for reviewers
<Simon80> yes, but it results in my orig tarball not matching upstream's, which is bad
<jdong> if anyone is feeling exceedingly bored, I would appreciate some feedback as to if katapult from edgy-backports is broken or not
<jdong> it works perfectly for me
<jdong> but I got an e-mail from someone stating it doesn't work
<jdong> (i.e. ALT+space did nothing)
<Simon80> anyway, what about the outdated autotools files, do I delete those? or rerun automake/autoconf?
<siretart> Simon80: ouch. when its in the upstream tarball, I personally wouldn't care too much about it either
<fdoving> Simon80: i'd say making the package usable with watch files is more importan than a little messy .diff that removes the rcs files.
<Simon80> fdoving: I'm not sure which side that makes you on?
<Simon80> I'm against repacking
<Simon80> but others in here have put it forward
<fdoving> Simon80: making the package work with watch files is like saying 'we only modify stuff inside the debian/ dir'
<sivang> Simon80: last time I checked, the program itself should take care of creting ~/prefs stuff, and this should not be part of the packaging responsibility. Now, please, I don't like to argue, so if there are other folks who are interested in reviewing/approving, I'm happy with that.
<Simon80> sivang: it's the packagers responsibility when upstream won't do it, lol
<Simon80> and they don't, unfortunately
<sivang> Simon80: come on tomorrow, and ask seb128 (gnome team) about how many times he had to modify the source or bugged upstream from source issues
<sivang> Simon80: think about it - the upstream maintainer might not even realize this has slipped, and might be thankful to you
* sivang runs now, has some urgent stuff to take care of
<Simon80> well, thanks for the review, I appreciate that
<Simon80> the thing is,I don't mind bugging upstream, but if I know they don't mind leaving cruft in, then I don't feel right telling them to remove it, cause it isn't a big deal
<Simon80> I don't actually know what to do about outdated-autotools-helper-file though, do I remove it?
<Simon80> the files in question?
<tsmithe> lucky Simon80 ...
<Simon80> lol, tsmithe: unlucky, scroll up
<tsmithe> i've been reading
<tsmithe> i'm on the side where you keep the orig as upstream's, and do a lot of diff'ing
<imbrandon> ok i'm off for a bit to do some christmass shopping see yall in a few
<jdong> tsmithe: there are exceptions to that though :-/
<tsmithe> hmm
<Simon80> jdong: not in this case
<jdong> tsmithe: i.e. ktorrent comes bundled with non-free components
<jdong> Simon80: relax I wasn't arguing against you :)
<Simon80> :)
<tsmithe> ok... i agree about ktorrent
<tsmithe> they shouldn't do that anyway upstream
<somerville32> ...
<jdong> tsmithe: I've tried arguing against it, but apparently having those country flags is a critical feature for ktorrent :D
<tsmithe> country flags? non-free?
<somerville32> Are you saying they have version control stuff in their release?
<Simon80> haha
<jdong> tsmithe: yes, the GeoIP database and the little flag icons
<jdong> tsmithe: are both not up for Free redistribution
<Simon80> funny thing: all this arguing over stupid cruft, and meanwhile I notice a real issue with stepmania-data
<Simon80> I mean, lintian thing
<tsmithe> jdong, well they're silly then, aren't they
<jdong> Simon80: may I suggest playing a violent video game or two to coll off? ;-)
<somerville32> Good idea!
<somerville32> :] 
<jdong> tsmithe: yeah they are, but that doesn't change the situation :)
* somerville32 boots xbox
<tsmithe> evil! it better be running linux!
<Simon80> jdong: nah, I was going to fix this build-depends-indep thing and then go play DDR
<jdong> tsmithe: I said play games, not compile ppc packages :)
<Simon80> using STEPMANIA, thank you very much :D
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> only I'm using cvs
<jdong> Simon80: look out, don't trip on CVS cruft ;-)
<Simon80> lol
<tsmithe> lol
<Simon80> well, ok, are there any devs here that don't care about cvs cruft and would like to review my package?
<Simon80> haha
<somerville32> Simon80, Just do an SVN export instead of check out (or what ever it is)
<Simon80> somerville32: what? the package I'm getting reviewed is from a release tarball
<Simon80> the cvs usage is my own business
<Simon80> that's stepmania-4.0~cvs20061118
<jdong> lovely :)
<Simon80> lintian has a field day with it
<jdong> I remember coming across release tarballs of packages full of ~ editor backups and such
<Simon80> CVS EVERYWHERE
<somerville32> Just... delete it
<Simon80> I didn't wanna pollute my diff
<jdong> Simon80: why not just repack the tarball?
<jdong> it really does sound like 30 seconds of find | xargs rm work
<somerville32> Or use a patch system
<Simon80> because having a matching tarball matters to me more than not having cruft
<somerville32> Plus ask upstream to fix the issue
<jdong> !seen Mez
<ubotu> I last saw Mez (i=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez) 3d 9m 18s ago, quiting: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
<Simon80> this is the argument I was having just now, I don't think anybody should care, and I don't want to ask upstream to waste their time repacking the tarball just because a few devs here are totally anal
<jdong> !e-mail mez about prevu
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about e-mail mez about prevu - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<jdong> aww :(
<Simon80> @email mex
<Simon80> lol
<Simon80> mez*
<jdong> now it's gonna make me pull out big wad of blue Ajax
* jdong reluctantly opens gmail
<tsmithe> or use evolution
<tsmithe> :)
<elektranox> mh in which file are the modules, which are loaded by default, saved?
<jdong> tsmithe: as soon as gmail properly does imap I will :)
* tsmithe uses gmail/pop3
<jdong> tsmithe: if I use evolution I then have to make sure my gmail is synced with my evolution
<jdong> in terms of read/unread messages
<tsmithe> evolution does that for me
<jdong> tsmithe: no it doesn't :)
<geser> elektranox: /etc/modules
<jdong> tsmithe: you can set gmail to archive messages downloaded via POP
<jdong> that's about the granularity of your control
<tsmithe> jdong, tell it to "Expunge deleted messages"
<tsmithe> and it archives them
<tsmithe> is that bad?
<jdong> so the delete command does an archive?
<jdong> didn't know that
<tsmithe> it does
<elektranox> geser: but there must be another file, because not all modules, which are loaded on my notebook are in this file
<tsmithe> i only discovered it by accident :)
* jdong fires up evo
<jdong> "getting message 1 of 897"
<jdong> lovely :)
<ajmitch> Simon80: hint, calling people 'totally anal' really isn't helpful
<jdong> tsmithe: where is this option? ;-)
<tsmithe> err
<tsmithe> hang o
<tsmithe> n
<tsmithe> you on feisty? i am - might be different...
<jdong> tsmithe: edgy...
<Simon80> ajmitch: I know, I know... but I'm very convinced that it is the case here
<doomsday-> hello there.. I'm looking for some help with autotools. Anyone knows where I can find it ? (I've got already manual)
<Simon80> have you found the book?
<Simon80> it's a bit out of date, but that's how I learned
<Simon80> http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/
<Simon80> not saying it's the easiest way to go, but it's a decent resource, I think
<jdong> ack maybe I should just start using my mit.edu IMAP account more :D
<doomsday-> Yup, I have some variant of this one
<Simon80> ajmitch: can you tell me what to do about the outdated-autotools-helper-file warning at least? I can't even deal with that cause I don't know off the top of my head whether I need to delete them or rerun autoconf/automake
<tsmithe> jdong: i can't find it and yelp's dead...
<tsmithe> it justs says "Expunging deleted messages" on send/receive
<elektranox> can I make sure that a module is loaded after another module?
<ajmitch> Simon80: sorry, I'm at work now, but look at autotools-dev
<jdong> tsmithe: mine does too but it actually doesn't change the status of the gmail at all
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> but it does mine
<jdong> tsmithe: the only other option I have is setting in gmail to archive the message when it's downloaded via POP
<jdong> which I don't want
* tsmithe checks gmail settings
<tsmithe> wow 1322 spam
<jdong> 3919
<tsmithe> mine says: "1. Status:  POP is enabled for all mail that has arrived since 20:13"
<tsmithe> the last time i checked for new
<tsmithe> why don't you want it to archive on download?
<jdong> tsmithe: because I use gmail webmail and the java gmail client a lot too
<tsmithe> ah
<tsmithe> ok
<jdong> tsmithe: and if it archives every time evolution picks it up... yeah see the problem? ;-)
<tsmithe> yeah
<tsmithe> well i only ever use evo so...
<tsmithe> hi lucas
<tsmithe> wanna review my package?
<lucas> hi
<lucas> no, thanks :)
<tsmithe> awh
<tsmithe> ok then
<tsmithe> anyone else? :)
<tsmithe> meh i'll just post the link anyway
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
<geser> tsmithe: change the package(galternatives) in your menu file
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> thanks
* tsmithe thought he'd done that
<tsmithe> right
* tsmithe uploads
<Sp4rKy> i would know if a package which provides external repository use can be accepted to universe ?
<lifeless> what do you mean?
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: i work on the E17 repo , which isn't official repository
<Sp4rKy> can i add a e17-desktop package on universe
<Sp4rKy> s/a/an
<lifeless> what would this package do ?
<tsmithe> Sp4rKy, are you a motu ;) ?
<Sp4rKy> which warn user with a debconf message, and if the user is agree modify the sourceslist and install E17
<Sp4rKy> tsmithe: nop, why ?
<tsmithe> wondered if you would revu my package...
<lifeless> Sp4rKy: I dont see that that would conflict with policy at all... but why not just upload the e17 debs to universe ?
<Sp4rKy> i can't
<lifeless> tsmithe: what do you need reviewed ?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3652
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: because actually the main dev of E17 doesn't want we upload it in any offical repo (nor ubuntu neither debian)
<lifeless> raster ?
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> :)
<lifeless> we should get horms and K to chat with him :)
<tsmithe> i don't like the sound of the e17-desktop idea
<tsmithe> it could lead to sabotage and malware
<Sp4rKy> :p
<tsmithe> people add untrusted repos through an official package; that repo installs spyware... urgh
<lifeless> seriously though, yes you can do it, but I think its an attempt at a backdoor into universe... 
<tsmithe> sorry, but i feel that the packages should just go into universe
<lifeless> I dont mean that maliciously
<tsmithe> it's safer
<lifeless> I do think its much much better to either:
<Sp4rKy> i know, but we can't
<lifeless>  * put the packages in universe - you get all the quality checks, updates for performance etc.
<lifeless> or
<lifeless>  * Dont. Give people instructions on your website.
<Sp4rKy> ...
<lifeless> actually you can, the code is GPL right :)
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> of course
<Sp4rKy> there is no "legal" issue
<tsmithe> so distribute it!
<Sp4rKy> but i don't know if we can provide a package which use external repo
<lifeless> hmm, its too early for tokyo
<tsmithe> Sp4rKy, why not just add all the packages from that repo to universe?
<lifeless> we should chat with raster about this
<lifeless> tsmithe: social problem with the lead dev. 
<Sp4rKy> tsmithe: look just before, we can't
<lifeless> tsmithe: we're talking at one remove, need to discuss directly.
<tsmithe> this is silly
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: we've already discuss a lot with ratser, but he doesn't want ...
<Lutin> lifeless: it'd be a loss of time
<Lutin> s/loss/waste
<lifeless> ok, so why does he not want it? what are the risks ?
<somerville32> lifeless: Would you review my package too? :)
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: he doesn't want people ask the E-dev for bugs which are only due to packaging issue / special distro settings
<stgraber> anyway, if the code is under GPL, that's just a social thing, he can't do anything against the packaging (except if all the code is under is own copyright and he can just change the licence)
<somerville32> sthraber: License changes aren't retroactive
<somerville32> gah
<somerville32> *stgraber
<Lutin> stgraber: he can't do anything, but he asks us nicely not to put it in distros yet
<lifeless> Sp4rKy: no upstream wants that.
<lifeless> Sp4rKy: what is special about e17 that makes it more likely to get badly forwarded bugs from Ubuntu ?
<Sp4rKy> smthg like that indeed
<Lutin> lifeless: actually the real point is that he doesn't want to have tons of users coming and asking questions about e17 as it's still in devel
<lifeless> Lutin: in which case, wont adding a package to universe (which 4Million users can see), which enables a private repository still defeat his intent ?
<lifeless> tsmithe: sorry, can't review now, forgotten my revu password - i've mailed the admins for that.
<tsmithe> just recover!
<ajmitch> morning lifeless 
<tsmithe> try and login: then click the recover link, and run the code it tells you
<lifeless> tsmithe: yes, did that, does not let me in with the recovered password.
<tsmithe> wierd
<lifeless> morning ajmitch 
<Lutin> lifeless: I didn't ask that ;). I don't want to do that, and I don't like much this idea
<lifeless> Lutin: ok.
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<Lutin> (sorry Sp4rKy)
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: it's me who have ask 
<Sp4rKy> Lutin: np
<lifeless> Sp4rKy: so, I dont think we should do what you propose - it sounds like it is in spirit no different to uploading directly to universe, and its definately more problematic for Ubuntu than uploading directly would be.
<Sp4rKy> i've think to it today, and o would know if it's possible
<Sp4rKy> lifeless: k
<tsmithe> hi ajmitch
<Lutin> Sp4rKy: btw, even if it's possible I don't want it to happen
<Sp4rKy> yes
<Sp4rKy> it was _just_ an idea
<Lutin> ok :)
<Lutin> now, let's focus on this packaging stuff ;)
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<siretart> lifeless: what is your revu login id? (it is an email adress)
<lifeless> oh, let me try that. It seemed to know who I was (recover gave me the correct gpg-crypted document)
<tsmithe> hi sirestart
<lifeless> no, still doesn't like it
<siretart> yes. normally, you should be able to use the recover button to do that. in some cases, it returns None
<lifeless> ah right, that is what it output (encrypted to me)
<ajmitch> usually you only have an account on revu if you've uploaded a package there
<tsmithe> hi slomo
<tsmithe> could you review my package?
<Sp4rKy> ^^
<Sp4rKy> tsmithe: just ask each people to do this
<Sp4rKy> just wait and your package will be reviewed
<tsmithe> awh
<tsmithe> ok
* tsmithe is impatient
<Sp4rKy> are you english ?
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> why?
<Sp4rKy> because if you was french, you could join #u-fr-classroom, and here, some people could "previewed" your packages and help you to make you package ready for REVU apporval
<Sp4rKy> approval
<tsmithe> oh
<tsmithe> my french isn't too bad... but i don't have a very wide vocabulary, nor do i know anything technical
<tsmithe> right i'm off
<lifeless> tsmithe: why do you require python2.4 ?
<lifeless> the description needs tightening up - the editorial isn't useful (imagine you are a person browsing the package list - thats the audience for that paragraph)
<lucas> tsmithe: please stop spamming the list for reviewing requests and wait for your turn
<siretart> or rather spam on the motureviewers list instead
<siretart> it is there for exactly this purpose
<lifeless> tsmithe: you've muddled the copyright in your new program : while you attribute 'some bits' to other programs, you have not preserved their copyright statements. You need to under copyright law.
<lifeless> also, I dont understand why you dont just invoke asoundconf, perhaps that could be explained in a DESIGN doc or something in your project.
<tsmithe> lifeless: you still around?
<tsmithe> and sorry lucas: i didn't realise that that was bad... i was trying to keep any who were reviewing up to date.
<tsmithe> i won't in future :)
<lucas> think of what would happen if everybody waiting for reviews was doing the same :)
<tsmithe> yeah... i guess
<tsmithe> sorry
<tsmithe> ping lifeless
<tsmithe> anyway, i'm sure anyone else can answer the question
<tsmithe> lifeless said "you've muddled the copyright in your new program : while you attribute 'some bits' to other programs, you have not preserved their copyright statements. You need to under copyright law."
<tsmithe> if the copyright statements are the same, do i still need to do this?
<tsmithe> and do I have to have the entire statement (including the GPL common stuff)?
<lifeless> its not apparent that they have the same licence when reading your source
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> so how explicit should I make it?
<lifeless> explicit.
<lifeless> no more, no less.
<tsmithe> "Both the asoundconf and gourmet projects are also licenced under the GPLv2 licence, details of which you can find below"
<somerville32> lifeless: If I run away to get buy something to eat and come back, will you still be around?
<lifeless> tsmithe: are they '2 only' or '2 or later'
<lifeless> tsmithe: do they have any exceptions ?
<tsmithe> 2 or later
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> i'll check
<lifeless> tsmithe: see my point ?
<lifeless> tsmithe: you are combining two pieces of software to create a third.
<tsmithe> well... sorta
<lifeless> tsmithe: the portions of each retain their own copyright 
<tsmithe> yes
<tsmithe> asoundconf is version 2 or any later version
* tsmithe gets gourmet source again
<lifeless> you must continue to obey the all three licences simultaneously, so you cannot drop any information about the licence, or it becomes problematic
<tsmithe> asoundconf is exactly the same licence as mine
<tsmithe> i'm just checking gourmet
<tsmithe> finally, i'm adding a DESIGN file
<tsmithe> lifeless: gourmet is also under the same licence
<lifeless> now, your comments on the setup.py - in the ubuntu context what you have done is fine. In terms of 'upstream' though, you have no way for people to install your software. Consider if Gnome wanted to replace their applet with yours
<tsmithe> explain
<tsmithe> why can't people upstream install my software?
<lifeless> no setup.py
<tsmithe> but so?
<lifeless> no mechanism to do the install
<tsmithe> ah
<lifeless> not the same as 'cannot be installed'
<tsmithe> i see
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> hmm
<lifeless> anyhow, thats not related to ubuntu.
<lifeless> just an observation
<tsmithe> well, i uploaded the package without the setup.py
<tsmithe> but i think i'll put one in my .orig.tar.gz
<tsmithe> ping lifeless
<WilderSon> hellpo
<tsmithe> lifeless; don't worry ;)
<tsmithe> hi WilderSon 
<WilderSon> does any know where to get the dvb-dev package?
<jdong> tsmithe: try ping -f? *g*
<tsmithe> nah - i want to unping
<tsmithe> i worked it out myself
<WilderSon> i ve a vdr runing and like to compile some plugins for that .. this needs vdr-dev -- which relies on dvb-dev --- which i cannot find
<WilderSon> hi tsmithe! ;)
<Sp4rKy> 'd night 
<fdoving> WilderSon: tried libdvb-dev ? 
<WilderSon> yes-
<tsmithe> reping lifeless
<WilderSon> fdoving: ill have a quick look
<shawarma> slomo: Hey. I've been looking for you. :-)
<tsmithe> i am getting problems with setup.py and "running install_egg_info"
<slomo> hi shawarma
<WilderSon> fdoving: the problem is that i need the sources for the vdr and this relies on dvb-dev - at least in synaptics
<WilderSon> or is there a way of forcing a package to be installed without taking care of other relying ones .. basicallyy these ones are only source and should be used in order to compile a plugin
<theCore> there some Emacs fans here?
<shawarma> slomo: I've cooked this specification up that I expect you might have an opinion on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/TeX
<slomo> shawarma: i disagree about the first sentence already ;) tetex and texlive both provide the same and you can choose whatever you want currently in feisty... though i would want to replace tetex with texlive, only time is bit of a problem here ;)
<slomo> shawarma: and if something depends on tetex-only this is a bug imho
<shawarma> shawarma: How exactly do you find that we disagree?
<shawarma> shawarma: Why are you writing to yourself?
<shawarma> sheesh.
<slomo> :)
<shawarma> slomo: How exactly do you find that we disagree?
<slomo> shawarma: i probably misread the first sentence, sorry ;) well, imho the solution is to drop tetex and use texlive because texlive is dead upstream anyway and debian plans to switch after etch... and for now packages should just depend on both as it's the case for almost all packages in feisty already
<slomo> shawarma: s/depend on both/conditionally depend on both/
<shawarma> slomo: Really? Maybe I have just looked at a particular unfortunate selection of packages.
<shawarma> slomo: Most packages I've looked at *only* depend on a tetex package.
<shawarma> slomo: no texlive deps.
<slomo> shawarma: well, texmacs has to be fixed... but at least everything i have installed can live with both :)
<shawarma> slomo: So you're into solution no. 3?
<slomo> shawarma: file bugs with patches and i'll upload for you :)
<slomo> shawarma: yes... as this is what debian already does and i don't think it makes sense to do something different here
<shawarma> slomo: I'm just reluctant to do so.. It *does* do the job and seems correct enough, but it also seems to me that there are other, more clever solutions. e.g. solution 2.5.
<shawarma> slomo: Oh, right. Debian doing it that way *is* a quite heavy argument.
<slomo> shawarma: but it's much more work and when considering that tetex will die in the short term anyway... :)
<shawarma> slomo: Well, if that certainly is the case, then yes.
<shawarma> slomo: Still, in case a shiny new tex distribution comes along one day, we'll have the same problem again. 
<slomo> shawarma: yes... talk with the debian tex maintainers if you want this fixed :) but i doubt that there will be many new tex distributions that are worth the effort in the next 10 years ;) and afaik texlive is only a tetex fork that is very actively maintained
<WilderSon> has anyone here compiled a plugin for the VDR, for edgy lately?
<shawarma> slomo: I suppose.
<shawarma> slomo: wow. That turned out the be a VERY short lived specification. :-)
<sivang> shawarma: that's okay, the wiki can take it all :p
<sivang> ;)
<shawarma> sivang: I even created a spec on launchpad and everything. I'm such a karma whore.
<sivang> shawarma: hahaha :)
<LaserJock> heh
<ajmitch> LaserJock!
<sivang> shawarma: yes, sometime I feel Karma is like Crack
<slomo> shawarma: i would've been too lazy ;)
<tsmithe> ping lifeless
<LaserJock> ajmitch!
<shawarma> slomo: I should have been too! :-)
<shawarma> slomo: Well, I'll be sure to send some patches in your direction. Tomorrow.
<shawarma> g'night, guys.
<slomo> gn8
<LaserJock> shawarma: wow, early today ;-)
<somerville32> I'm going to go to bed too :] 
<somerville32> LaserJock: Could you review my package? :] 
<elektranox> how do I tell ACPI to load another module?
<LaserJock> somerville32: did I tell you I was going to do a review for you the other day?
<LaserJock> I lost my todo list of reviews
<somerville32> LaserJock: No, I just uploaded it this morning
<LaserJock> somerville32: what's the URL, I'll put it on my list
<LaserJock> and I'll get to it when I can
<tsmithe> LaserJock, you could do mine
<tsmithe> somerville32, have you not slept for how long now?
<tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3655 ;)
<somerville32> tsmithe: I've been awake I'd say for over 34 hours maybe
<tsmithe> too long man
<tsmithe> what are you on?!
<somerville32> Karma crack! :D
<tsmithe> :O
<somerville32> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3644
* tsmithe afk
<somerville32> _o/
<amnesia> LaserJock: how long is that list of yours. my package wants to be revu'ed too :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-26
<LaserJock> imbrandon: man, Planet Debian must have the lowest barrier to entry ever ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hahaha :)
<LaserJock> Mako needs some sort of policy on that
<TheMuso> Hmmm. The interdiff procedure for reviewing interdiffs is not working for me here. When I get to the step of producing review.interdiff, I get the following:
<TheMuso> interdiff: hunk-splitting is required in this case, but is not yet implemented
<LaserJock> can't just let any riffraff on there
<TheMuso> interdiff: use the -U option to work around this
<imbrandon> :)
<TheMuso> Review.interdiff has this:
<TheMuso> diff -u easycrypt-0.2.1.14/debian/changelog easycrypt-0.2.1.14/debian/changelog
<TheMuso> --- easycrypt-0.2.1.14/debian/changelog
<TheMuso> +++ easycrypt-0.2.1.14/debian/changelog
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> TheMuso: I've not really used interdiff much
<imbrandon> i've not used interdiff at all
<imbrandon> persia seems to be the resident interdiff expert
 * TheMuso is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff#head-5faad1820a5ec43b0ba3c9186795dd8a0bfdab25
<LaserJock> I used once or twice I think
 * ajmitch sees that the PPA floodgates are open to the masses now
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> i wish they would just delete my /pool, the packages are merked as such for a few days now
<imbrandon> marked*
<ajmitch> it'll happen sometime
<imbrandon> StevenK: btw i got a reply from 1 fo 2 of the DD's i emailed, he said he no longer has access to his debian key, and 2 of 2 bounced , lol
<LaserJock> ok, guys
<LaserJock> can you check Planet and see what the title on my blog post is?
<Fujitsu> Oh dear.
<imbrandon> soren's desk
<imbrandon> looks to be
<LaserJock> dang it
 * LaserJock kicks planet
 * TheMuso also kicks planet.
<TheMuso> For some reason, its stopped picking up my feed...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't see any recent ones from you, even directly on your blog..
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: Behind MOTU
<Fujitsu> Ahh.
<LaserJock> this is the second time it's done this
<LaserJock> Planet is getting a wrong title
<LaserJock> my RSS feed says "Soren Hansen"
<ajmitch> heh
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, it's picking up the title from one of the <media> tags. That's braindead.
 * ajmitch sees a surprising lack of ponies on planet
<Fujitsu> Has planet been inducted into LP?
<ajmitch> enough of the bitterness, thanks
<LaserJock> ajmitch: getting there
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: as in the code?
<TheMuso> Planet is screwed.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Well, it seems broken.
<TheMuso> Just a bit.
<ajmitch> imbrandon: I think Fujitsu is just commenting on the perceived reliability of LP
<imbrandon> ahh
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Right.
<LaserJock> I don't understand why this is getting messed up
<LaserJock> oh, hmm
<ajmitch> soem feed parsing error, I guess
<ajmitch> s/soem/some/
 * ajmitch cannot type
<LaserJock> it's taking the title from a pic
<imbrandon> looks like planetplanet feed parsing error
<LaserJock> it must find the last "title" or something
<imbrandon> <media:title type="html">Sorenâs Desk</media:title> instead of <title>
<imbrandon> yea
<LaserJock> surely I'm not the only one
<LaserJock> is jdub still doing Planet?
<imbrandon> iirc jdub is one of the devs of planetplanet upstream
<LaserJock> yeah
<imbrandon> not sure, havent been on that list in quite a while
<imbrandon> and on the other side i'm not sure how old of an instance we run
<imbrandon> where debians is all in svn we only have the configs in bzr iirc
<LaserJock> but is it a config problem, a Wordpress problem, or a PlanetPlanet problem?
<imbrandon> looks like planetplanet problem
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It's not a WordPress problem
<Fujitsu> (although the number of other problems that WordPress has is absolutely incredible)
<TheMuso> I'm wondering whether my feed is not being picked up properly any more since I made a post during LP downtime.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Planet is independent from LP, other than the config branch being hosted there, as far as I know.
 * minghua finds it quite ironic that translation on LP is completely broken after upgrade while one main feature of this upgrade is "Rosetta improved".
<LaserJock> it's broken?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yep.
<Fujitsu> They are experiencing enormous performance issues with the new code.
<imbrandon> ironic
<Fujitsu> Such that it doesn't work *at all*.
<Fujitsu> The 8 hour migration broke more than it solved. I am impressed.
<LaserJock> freaking heck
<LaserJock> after 8 hrs downtime?
<Fujitsu> Some of the other changes (a security fix in particular) leave a bit to be desired, too.
<TheMuso> If this is the trend for LP, I start to worry about its long term usefulness.
<Fujitsu> But the Rosetta one is the most worrisome of the lot, right.
<Fujitsu> `The speed and reliability of Launchpad Translations should now be significantly improved following a major refactoring.'
<Fujitsu> Sure, it's reliably down.
<RoAkSoAx> haha speed impreved on showing error messages xDD
 * TheMuso looks at planet config, and doesn't notice any syntax errors...
<LaserJock> well, I'm sure 404s would speed Rosetta up a lot :-)
<imbrandon> bbiab
<nxvl> anyone know someway to execute a sh script step by step as in debbuging?
<nxvl> cause 'sh -x' isn't showing me nothing
<TheMuso> nxvl: What do you mean its not showing you anything?
<nxvl> TheMuso: it only shows me the error, but the lines it executes doesn't show the error
<TheMuso> nxvl: hmm. Thought of doing something like this? sh -x scriptname 2:&1 | less
<nxvl> http://pastebin.com/d16b8f83f
<nxvl> shows this
<TheMuso> Piping all output, whether from the script or otherwise, through less, to review line by line.
<nxvl> TheMuso: isn't a big output, i can read it on my terminal without a problem
<TheMuso> nxvl: Ah ok.
<TheMuso> nxvl: I still don't understand the problem.
<nxvl> TheMuso: that's the output, and there i can't see the error, it says that a )) is missing, but i don't find why
<LaserJock> nixternal: around?
<RoAkSoAx> TheMuso, he want's to debug his script step by step and he wants to know if there is a way to do it
<nxvl> so i'm asking for any way to execute all step by step to find where exactly this )) are missing
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: exactly
<minghua> nxvl: It says it's missing on line #807.
<nxvl> minghua: well, it isn't
<nxvl> minghua: so i want to check what is it executing to check if maybe there is a malformed variable that is making the need of those ))
<minghua> I am not a shell expert, but I don't see how line-by-line execution will help you.  It's a parsing error, not an execution error.
<TheMuso> RoAkSoAx: I know that. I couldn't work out what the problem was from the output.
<nxvl> minghua: yes, but i have already check all the source and there are no unclosed '(' so i think maybe a variable contains it
<TheMuso> nxvl: What is set -u for?
<minghua> -u  Treat unset variables as an error when substituting.
<nxvl> TheMuso: i don't what you to work on it, only to point me to a way to execute it line by line so i can work on it :D
<nxvl> TheMuso: dunno, it's a FTBFS bug on bootcd
<nxvl> LP: #165030
<minghua> nxvl: Have you tried to run it through bash?
<TheMuso> nxvl: Well the bash manpage may give you some pointers.
<nxvl> minghua: that solves the problem
<nxvl> why haven't i think it before
<nxvl> minghua: thnx
 * nxvl hugs minghua 
<minghua> nxvl: No problem.  (Although I wouldn't call it "solving" the problem.)
<minghua> bug 165030
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
<nxvl> minghua: in some way it is, because the script is running with sh, and it should run with bash
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, but /bin/sh is just a logical link to bash or dash
<imbrandon> sh links to dash
<RoAkSoAx> yep by default to dash
<nixternal> LaserJock: yo yo
<nxvl> i use "bash +x script" and it runs fine without errors
 * RoAkSoAx still cant access to rossetta translations :S
<zul> helloooo
 * TheMuso wonders whether planet is ignoring his entries, due to the title of his most recent posts being too long...
<persia> TheMuso: I don't understand why, but I can reproduce the hunking issue with easycrypt.  I'll dig into it to try to figure out why, and post a correction to the wiki page.
<RoAkSoAx> hey does anyone of you know why rossetta still not working?
<nxvl> is there any recipe about dpatch? i don't find very usefull the packaging guide of dpatch
<LaserJock> nxvl: it's in the packaging guide
<LaserJock> where are you looking?
<nxvl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#head-5f4642a5564760bd8aae0fd2cbd70e6cd78c1260
<minghua> RoAkSoAx: It has been down since the upgrade.  Any reason you believe it's going to work soon?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab...
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Why is it that you bring a high importance to most bugs that you touch?
<Fujitsu> (LP bugs, that is)
<bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heya
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee. Glad exams are over?
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: magic touch I guess
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> generally I don't complain much
<LaserJock> but when I do I expect to be heard ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh.
<Fujitsu> Good to see that nomination bug marked High.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: yeah, but i've still got lab reports to hand in
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: I guess thats not too bad.
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> how's it going?
<Hobbsee> uh oh, lab people are getting annoyed about the late lab reports
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: done the last exam, random_crap_to_do--.
<nxvl> isn't there any "dpatch for dummies" or something like that
<LaserJock> nxvl: what are you having a problem with? there isn't much to it
<nxvl> i don't know if it is cause i'm tired, but i don't undesrtand anything
<nxvl> LaserJock: on putting dpatch on debian/rules
<LaserJock> oh
<nxvl> i have do it
<nxvl> but i'm getting a weird error
<LaserJock> did you add the following to the top of debian/rules:
<LaserJock>  include /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make
<nxvl> LaserJock: http://pastebin.com/d5a705ca6 <- i have this
<nxvl> i'm calling dpatch directly instead of using dpatch.make
<minghua> Apparently, LaserJock needs to consider writing "Ubuntu packaging for dummies". :-)
<LaserJock> nxvl: ok, you can get rid of the patch-stamp: and dpatch: rules
<LaserJock> nxvl: read man dpatch.make
 * minghua didn't know dpatch.make has a man page.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: that's good :)
<LaserJock> minghua: yep
<LaserJock> nxvl: the Examples section of the dpatch.make man page has the right rules
 * LaserRock out
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
<ScottK> Good $TIMEOFDAY all.
<Hobbsee> hi ScottK
<bddebian> Heya ScottK
<ScottK> heya Hobbsee and bddebian (or are you really bdefreese?)
<StevenK> Muahah
<StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
<bddebian> ScottK: I'm not sure anymore ;-P
<minghua> hello ScottK.
<ajmitch>       
<imbrandon>  
<Hobbsee>  
<TheMuso>  
<nxvl>  
 * Fujitsu  
 * ajmitch was just having ssh issues thanks
 * TheMuso  
<TheMuso> :p
 * ajmitch gives up & leaves
 * Fujitsu staples ajmitch to the channel.
 * Fujitsu likes stapling people to things that lack a physical manifestation.
 * Hobbsee staples Fujitsu to kmos
<Fujitsu> It burns!
<StevenK> Careful, you don't know how cluelessness is contracted.
<StevenK> Hrm. Did I say that out loud?
<TheMuso> lol
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<TheMuso> /c/c
<TheMuso> argh
<RAOF_> Hey TheMuso :)
<TheMuso> Hey RAOF_.
 * StevenK ponders writing an #ubuntu-motu drinking game
<Burgundavia> StevenK: we don't need a game to get people drinking
<RAOF> StevenK: Based upon the incedence of "Ponies!"?
<Burgundavia> they already do that on their own
<StevenK> "Everytime TheMuso writes 'c', '/c' or any variation thereof, followed by 'argh' or 'wrong tab', take a drink."
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh
<StevenK> "Everytime someone asks LaserRock about ponies, or golden ponies, take a drink."
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: :P
<StevenK> "Everytime Hobbsee pokes someone with her Long Pointy Stick, take a drink, unless it is you getting lambasted."
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<StevenK> This is kind of fun.
 * TheMuso wonders whether bugs can be filed against planet ubuntu anywhere...
<StevenK> "Everytime RAOF complains about marking, first years or both, take a drink."
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<RAOF> That's something I could get behind!
<ajmitch> "Everytime someone criticises Launchpad, take a drink"
<TheMuso> We'd be drunk.
<Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
<ajmitch> well & truly
<StevenK> I like what WoW does when you're drunk, I saw that first hand yesterday when a friend dropped a Brewfest Pony Keg
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> the brewfest event was great for that
<StevenK> I came out with "I wonder if I'm shober.", followed by "Haha ... hic!"
<ajmitch> did you get the awesome visual effects? :)
 * ajmitch started raiding last week
<StevenK> I didn't, no.
<StevenK> I got completly smashed, but no visual effects
<ajmitch> once you're well & truly gone, the screen is all blurred, you can't walk straight, and it's like tunnel vision
<StevenK> Bwahaha
<TheMuso> lol
<StevenK> So I needed to drink more
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> it progressively gets worse
<StevenK> I wonder if it takes more for you to get drunk the higher level you are
 * TheMuso wonders whether you end up not being able to see anything if you get blind drunk. :p
<ajmitch> no idea, I was doing it at level 70
<StevenK> It took about 5 Brewfest Brews to get tipsy
<StevenK> I should compare my level 21 and level 44 warlocks
<Hobbsee> you all forgot about the "when someone is found to be committing crack, take a drink"
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That sounds dangerous.
<ajmitch> when kmos files a bug, take a drink
<StevenK> Hahah
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Has the right idea.
 * ajmitch should behave now
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: shudder.
<StevenK> "When kmos files more than ten sync requests, take that number of drinks."
<Fujitsu> Haha./
<ScottK> minghua: Hello back (much later).
<TheMuso> When kmos applise to become MOTU, skull ${Biggeest_Beer_Serving}.
<TheMuso> biggest
<TheMuso> s/Beer/Drink/
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: now you really need to put down the crack pipe.
<Fujitsu> And the MC doesn't have the best track record of rejecting people..
<ScottK> This is true.
<Hobbsee> oh, *applies* to become a MOTU.  not actually gets it.
<StevenK> No, no. "If Kmos applies to become an MOTU, sober up immeadiately and smack him down."
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Aren't they the same thing?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: no.
<TheMuso> StevenK: haha
<TheMuso> Ouch. Planet is really screwing up.
 * ScottK ponders something involving lots of fire or explosives.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: How?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Sounds good.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: See latest planet post.
<Fujitsu> Is that particularly broken?
<TheMuso> DId you follow the link to the actual post from his blog?
<Fujitsu> I did.
<StevenK> Clicking the link for Daniel Robitaille's latest post, it works for me.
<TheMuso> Well the title for the post on planet and the actual blog don't match.
<Fujitsu> Have his ever?
<TheMuso> The links aren't broken up, just the titles.
<TheMuso> dunno
<StevenK> A common theme is they're all wordpress.com blogs
<StevenK> (all two of them)
 * ScottK tries to understand how launchpad release notes qualify for planet Ubuntu???
<Hobbsee> because ubuntu uses launchpad?
<Hobbsee> anyway, where's that drink?
<TheMuso> heh
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Do Ubuntu release notes go on planet?
<Fujitsu> Haha:
<Fujitsu> 16:23:43 < lee_> cab: they are permanent drives they only started doing this since I installed gibson
<Hobbsee> ScottK: usually someone copies them there, yes
<Fujitsu> That's a new one.
<StevenK> The Gutsy Gibson. Hum. I always knew Mel was an animal.
<pwnguin> ScottK: do we want them to?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: usually multiple people, actually
<ScottK> I dunno.  It seems about the that planet is supposed to be ABOUT Ubuntu and while Ubuntu uses LP, it's a separate thing.
<StevenK> I just think ScottK doesn't want to see the L word more than he needs to ...
<Hobbsee> yet the offtopic posts on launchpad don't concern you?
<pwnguin> well he can keep pretending that canonical and ubuntu aren't joined at the hip
<ScottK> pwnguin: It's Canonical that claims they are separate things.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Was that directed at me?
 * ScottK got a head start on the drinking game tonight.
<StevenK> Hah
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah
<StevenK> Why, did you look at Kmos' bug page?
 * StevenK ducks
<Hobbsee> didnt' realise that you didn't say both lines when i was first typing
 * Hobbsee beats StevenK
<StevenK> Ouch!
<ajmitch> duck quicker next time
<StevenK> That was directed at ScottK, though
<ScottK> No, the drinking is unrelated to Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: the offtopic posts on planet ubuntu are far greater in number than the LP ones - yet i havent seen you comment on them yet.
<StevenK> ScottK: Oh, so it's Launchpad.
 * StevenK chuckles
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Ah.  Well at least those are by people who are involved in Ubuntu.
<ScottK> But yeah.  It's Launchpad.
<StevenK> So are Launchpad people, by that extension.
<Hobbsee> and launchpad are not?
<ScottK> StevenK: No, they are developers of a system we happen to use.
 * Hobbsee suspects he's just ranting about anythign LP, just because he can...
 * pwnguin wonders if automatix deserves the kind of consideration LP gets
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: he wouldn't do that
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: definetly not.
<StevenK> ScottK: Okay, and when cprov spends an hour fixing a buildd, that doesn't relate at all?
<ScottK> StevenK: That's him fixing his proprietary service.
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: how about medibuntu?
 * ScottK rants about Automatix too.
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: probably OK.  ubuntu studio, etc, also go to there with their release notes
<StevenK> And Mythbuntu
<Hobbsee> yaeh, that too
 * Hobbsee giggles, remembering the planet editorial spec
 * StevenK wants a machine with a DVB card so he can try it
<pwnguin> ScottK: so what do you think about the affero PL?
<ScottK> pwnguin: You didn't happen to see me discuss that on #debian-devel and you're trying to get me started again?
<pwnguin> i dont watch debian-devel
<pwnguin> but maybe i'll hound up a log
<Amaranth> automatix people are on planet
<Amaranth> jdong is on there, isn't he?
<ScottK> pwnguin: Short version is I don't think it's DFSG free.
<ScottK> jdong is not an Automatix guy.
<Amaranth> he used to be
<ScottK> jdong runs *-backports which is an official Tech Board blessed part of the Ubuntu project.
<Amaranth> no one is an automatix guy anymore, automatix is gone
<ScottK> Three cheers for that.
<Amaranth> and i know what jdong does :P
<pwnguin> there's automatix2
<Amaranth> there won't be for hardy
<pwnguin> how'd that happen?
<Amaranth> i hang out with the main dev a couple times a week :P
<Amaranth> and he was at uds
<pwnguin> i see
<Amaranth> we went through the list of what automatix is good for that _isn't_ easy to do with stock ubuntu
<Amaranth> it came down to adding a couple things to ubuntu-restricted-extras and some x86 on x86-64 stuff
<ScottK> Cool.
<Amaranth> which afaik is just skype and flash
 * ScottK will grumble about Envy posts on planet, just to be fair.
<Amaranth> envy apparently got a lot saner too
<Amaranth> i think mvo helped the guy out
<pwnguin> there has got to be a better way than how envy works
<pwnguin> good
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: why didn't i hear about the extra stuff added to u-r-e then?
<Hobbsee> or have i, and not responded?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: because nothing has been added
<Amaranth> and i think it was more a matter of opinion on whether or not things should be added to it
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: no bug has been filed, either.
<ScottK> So I'm reading about PackageKit on planet.  Does this mean we're giving up on Debian package management in the long run?
<Hobbsee> yeah, true
<Amaranth> ScottK: PackageKit is just a frontend
<ScottK> Amaranth: For what?
<Amaranth> apt/dpkg
 * pwnguin would rather hear more about policyKit on the planet. that stuff's scary
<StevenK> I'm guessing it's backend-agostic, and deals with both rpm/yum and apt/dpkg
<Amaranth> right
<StevenK> Like SMART
<Amaranth> no
<StevenK> Except SMART is dumb
<ScottK> So it's more of an Adept/whatever Gnome uses replacement?
<Amaranth> it's actually a gnome-app-install/update-notifier replacement
<pwnguin> synaptic?
<ScottK> Dunno.  Never used Gnome, but that sounds right.
<ScottK> OK, so we're going to make it easy to mix RPM and Debian packages?
<Amaranth> no
<ScottK> Good.
<pwnguin> i think we're making it easier to integrate package management with gnome
<ScottK> Great.
<Amaranth> it's just a distro-agnostic way for things to install packages
<pwnguin> wouldn't that need namespaces to be identical?
<slangasek> and why is that valuable? :)
<ScottK> OK.  I'm having a hard time reconciling distro-agnostic and not packaging system agnostic.
<Amaranth> slangasek: consistent GUI
<minghua> Making it easier for users to switch distros, I suppose.
<ScottK> Amaranth: So it's a consistent gui for different things?
<Amaranth> ScottK: right
<pwnguin> the backend is probably not distro-agnostic then ;)
 * slangasek is not a distro agnostic, he knows which packaging system he prays to
<ScottK> And this is a good thing?
<minghua> ScottK: Yes, it has different backends for APT/RPM/etc.
<Amaranth> it's basically a way for everyone else to get gnome-app-install instead of just ubuntu :P
<slangasek> yeah, who cares about them? :)
<pwnguin> psh
<Amaranth> but it does the policykit thing too so that's useful
<pwnguin> they can learn to compete ;)
<Hobbsee> interesting.  video's dont owrk onw
<slangasek> here, let me fix that for you with VideoKit
<Amaranth> slangasek: that's called gstreamer
<ScottK> Amaranth: What is the "poicy kit thing"?
<StevenK> And then you'll need to manage all of your kits with KitKit
<slangasek> it's called that /today/
<Amaranth> as used by DesktopKit
<Amaranth> aka GNOME
<slangasek> I manage mine with KitKat
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> slangasek: Just for that, I'm breaking your fingers
<StevenK> :-P
<Amaranth> ScottK: basically instead of running the whole app as root you have a daemon that speaks dbus
<Amaranth> and dbus system activation starts it on demand
<minghua> Oh, are we talking about PackageKit or PolicyKit?  Because they are completely different things.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you might have to coordinate alpha 1, if you do...
<Amaranth> i said PackageKit was useful because it used PolicyKit
<StevenK> I didn't say I'd break all of them.
<ScottK> Amaranth: When it starts it, what user does it start it as?
<Amaranth> ScottK: not sure
<Amaranth> probably root?
<ScottK> I'm still not getting the benifit then.
<Amaranth> less code running as root
<Amaranth> and no GUI code
<minghua> ScottK: Probably one backend and one front end.
<minghua> Backend runs as root and frontend runs as ordinary user.
<pwnguin> policyKit itself is about not running gtk as root
<pwnguin> etc
<minghua> I don't claim I know PackageKit though.
<StevenK> ScottK: The whole point is to minimise down as much as possible the code that runs as root.
<pwnguin> its still a massive transition that's going to be painful, i think a few people already found that out ;)
 * TheMuso hopes the policykit stuff happens. It will also mean admin tools are accessible to users using assistive tech.
<ScottK> StevenK: Well that makes sense.  I got confused when he said it ran as root anyway.
<StevenK> ScottK: PolicyKit is a very small helper running as root which the GUIs talk to using dbus
<pwnguin> policy-kit is going to make an already confusing time with thinkfinger more confusing =(
<ScottK> I think I'm just going to say it's Gnome and I don't need to understand it.
<pwnguin> heh
<Hobbsee> ScottK: but you might end up switching to gnome :P
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I might.  I might alswo switch back to Windows.  I don't worry to much about either of those eventualities.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: then how would you yell at redmond?  go over there?
<ScottK> I'm not saying there's any real risk of that, just saying the risks are roughly equivalent.
 * StevenK is of the opinion that Gnome looks .... I don't know, prettier and shinier than KDE.
 * ScottK finds KDE more comfortable.
<pwnguin> GNOME has a lot of gray for a "prettier and shinier" than KDE
 * Hobbsee killed a whole lot of the grey from gnome
 * StevenK quite likes grey.
<pwnguin> Is the double panel a proven usability thing, or just an artifact of history?
 * ScottK discovers hardy no longer has libmilter0, just libmilter1 and gives up and goes to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<LaserRock> we've really added 18 new MOTUs since May?
<Hobbsee> pwnguin: you can certainly fit more stuff on there
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's another reason for the switch to EXA. Video overlays work.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ahhh.  my videos just crash now :)
<pwnguin> Hobbsee: on the contrary I can fit more programs without gnome panel getting in my way at the bottom ;)
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Hah.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: interesting.
<Hobbsee> The program 'totem' received an X Window System error.
<Hobbsee> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
<Hobbsee> The error was 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)'.
<Hobbsee>   (Details: serial 99 error_code 11 request_code 140 minor_code 19)
<Fujitsu> That sounds right
<Hobbsee> then again, this is xaa still.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> Happy REVU Day!
<\sh> moins
<pwnguin> wow, ipkg is really based on dpkg, huh
<\sh> pwnguin, ipkg as in linux for routers? ,-)
<pwnguin> yea
<pwnguin> well, i think it started out for ipaq
<pwnguin> but i just got ahold of a spare router
<dholbach> so how's the REVU day coming along?
 * dholbach looked at a bunch of 'in progress' needs-packaging bugs already and the revu uploads connected to them
<Sikon_Stargate> I'd like to request review of two updated packages: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qdvdauthor http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux
<dholbach> Sikon_Stargate: looking at qdvdauthor
<TheMuso> Sikon_Stargate: Looking at avidemux.
<dholbach> Sikon_Stargate: did you rebase on the marillat package?
<dholbach> Sikon_Stargate: I'm just diffing the latest debian-multimedia upload and yours: why the -dbg package? why the dropped patch? why dvdauthor/dvd-slideshow/mjpegtools as Build-Depends?
<nand`> hi MOTUs! I'd like a review of the package ike please! (one advocate already). Thanks! http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ike
<dholbach> Sikon_Stargate: added comments to qdvdauthor page
<Sikon_Stargate> dholbach> I merged the Ubuntu version
<Sikon_Stargate> Ubuntu has 1.0.0~rc1, debian-multimedia.org has 1.0.0~rc2, and this is 1.0.0~rc3
<dholbach> debian-multimedia has 1.0.0~rc3 too
<dholbach> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/pool/main/q/qdvdauthor/
<dholbach> I understand the need for the desktop file changes and they are mentioned in a former revu upload
<dholbach> the other changes I don't understand :)
<TheMuso> Sikon_Stargate: With avidemux, why did you migrate to cmake? Or is that an upstraem change?
<Sikon_Stargate> Upstream only had autotools for 2.3. With 2.4, they offer a choice between autotools and cmake.
<TheMuso> Sikon_Stargate: Right. So why change?
<LucidFox> Personal preference, I guess.
<LucidFox> If autotools is preferable, I can change to that.
<\sh> LucidFox, is upstream going the cmake way now, and offering this as a transitional change?
<dholbach> nand`: can you change the entry in debian/changelog to (LP: #148103)?
<dholbach> nand`: or if you agree I do it on my own and upload right away
<LucidFox> Upstream has no preference for a specific build system, as far as I can tell.
<nand`> dholbach: If it's okey with you, no pb, thanks!
<dholbach> nand`: ok, uploading it! congratulations!
<LucidFox> Both will be supported at least in the near future.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Ok thats fine then.
<nand`> dholbach: yay!
<\sh> wow...I found a way to gpg sign stuff without having my gpgcard with me :)
<soren> \sh: ?
<\sh> debuild -S -k'<your key id>!' <-- the exclamation mark is important...fyi
<LucidFox> dholbach> For qdvdauthor, I dropped the patch because it results in qplayer and qslideshow not building, and the Ubuntu version builds them.
<LucidFox> (the "make" lines are commented out in the patch)
<\sh> soren, I have a signing subkey on a gpg card...but if you don't have it handy..you are fcked, if you don't have this trick handy with the exclamation mark ,-)
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Why did you remove the Bugs field in debian/control:
<LucidFox> TheMuso> for avidemux?
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Yes.
<LucidFox> Oversight. I'll re-add it.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Can't you only use subkeys for encryption?
<\sh> Fujitsu, no...you can use subkeys for encryption, signing and authentication :)
<dholbach> LucidFox: this is the current debdiff between debian-multimedia and your proposed version: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/qdvdauthor.debdiff
<\sh> phew../me has a headache...clean restart yesterday evening ...:(
<TheMuso> LucidFox: If the avidemux binary package is transitional, why is it architecture any?
<dholbach> LucidFox: desktop changes are fine, if you want to drop the patch, that's fine, but please document the change in debian/changelog and don't change debian/rules and debian/control for that, let's try to keep the diff small, also: I understand the added Depends (could some of them be recommends?), but why do you add them as Build-Depends? are they needed on the build machine to build the package?
<TheMuso> LucidFox: And, if Christian Marillat made this package prior to Nicolai Spohrer, there is no reason to change who debianised it at the top of the copyright file.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: According to the diff, yes this package was originally debianised in 2002, so that should certainly be left as it is IMO.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: You also changed the copyright authors/upstream authors. You haven't listed the years of copyright for these author's code contribution.
<LucidFox> dholbach> So I should leave dpatch support in debian/rules even though there are no patches?
<dholbach> LucidFox: yes, else you divert from the debian packaging just for the sake of a dropped patch
<dholbach> nand`: are you sure that bug 148103 is the bug you want to close with the ike upload?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 148103 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Request for packaging, VPN client" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148103
<nand`> dholbach: Yes, this is this one.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: I also don't see what changes Nicolai Spohrer made mentioned in the changelog at all.
<nand`> dholbach: the name is not explicitely mentioned, but this is it
<LucidFox> All right. I will also leave the patches in debian/patches and only remove them from 00list.
<dholbach> nand`: thanks a lot for that
<dholbach> LucidFox: great, that change is easy to merge :-)
 * dholbach hugs LucidFox
<TheMuso> LucidFox: And, the only thing I have against cmake, is that vast quantities of debian/rules are altered by this update. Like dholbach has said for your other package, this diverges from Debian Multimedia a lot, which means more merging work in the future.
<dholbach> also it helps if you document every bit you change in the changelog
<TheMuso> At this point, I do not feel comfortable giving this an ack.
<LucidFox> debian-multimedia.org won't package avidemux until it reaches 2.4 final - Marillat said so
<dholbach> Somehow I knew that it was persia who added "It's REVU Day!  Packagers; announce your packages, Reviewers: Add as many hammers as you can." to the topic :-)
<pwnguin> what's the process to get a package sync'd from experimental?
<TheMuso> Nevertheless, any packaging differences means more merging work.
<dholbach> pwnguin: file a sync request and just mention that it's experimental instead of unstable
<dholbach> LucidFox: if we decide to ship an unstable avidemux that's our decision
<dholbach> LucidFox: still we can try to keep the packaging delta small
<TheMuso> dholbach: The diff as it stands between both debian/ dirs is 19K.
<dholbach> right
<pwnguin> dholbach: ok, i guess the terminology is a New, not a Sync
<dholbach> pwnguin: is it a new package that has never been in ubuntu before?
<pwnguin> correct
<dholbach> then it's still a sync :)
<pwnguin> ok
<dholbach> but right, best ask in #ubuntu-devel - I'm not sure that experimental is automatically synced
<pwnguin> im pretty sure its not
<pwnguin> i figured there'd be some method of triggering a discussion on inclusion from experimental
<dholbach> either ask for it in #ubuntu-devel or file a normal sync bug, just stating that it's experimental you're talking about
<mok0> I was asked to make an icon for xtide for the merge. Now I've done it, I have png files in sizes 128 -> 16 pixels. Now I need to know how to add them to the package, and where to install them.
<minghua> mok0: I think the place to install them is /usr/share/icons/hicolor/*/, but adding them to the package would be a challenge if you don't repack upstream tarball.
<mok0> minghua: I don't want to do that
<mok0> repack tarball I mean
<minghua> mok0: BTW is there any definitive conclusion about Torque's licensing?
<dholbach> mok0: check out ekiga to find out how you can add icons without changing the tarball
<LucidFox> dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qdvdauthor/+bug/164815 - I have attached a new debdiff.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164815 in qdvdauthor "qdvdauthor 1.0.0~rc3" [Undecided,In progress]
<minghua> mok0: You can apply some uuencode/uudecode magic then.
<mok0> No I don't think so. Didn't we agree that the package could go into universe?
<mok0> uuencode, yes I can try that
<minghua> mok0: I didn't read the IRC log, I only read the mail to motu-science.
<mok0> I can also send the icons upstream
<LucidFox> (also uploading the new version to REVU at the moment)
<dholbach> LucidFox: does it still build?
<mok0> minghua: Is there a formal body within ubuntu to clarify license matters?
<dholbach> LucidFox: you remove the dpatch build-dep
<LucidFox> oops!
<dholbach> you might also want to remove "+  * Dropped dpatch support from debian/rules, no patches left."
<minghua> mok0: There should be, I'm not sure which though.  Maybe archive admins.
<dholbach> LucidFox: I'll review the patch in a bit again, please add the link to the debian-multimedia source package again in the bug
<mok0> minghua: so the package needs to go through ordinary review, then
<mok0> ... perhaps it can go into multiverse
<minghua> mok0: I don't quite understand what you mean.  It always needs to go through review, whether for universe or multiverse.
<mok0> minghua: I was thinking that a license clarification could be made before people started wasting time on the package
<mok0> minghua: It would be really useful to get torque into ubuntu, though
<minghua> mok0: Let me have a look at the license.
<minghua> mok0: Yeah, I'm really insterested in Torque.
<mok0> minghua: you want me to pastebin the license?
<LucidFox> Building qdvdauthor now, also reuploaded the debdiff
<mok0> minghua: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45898/
<minghua> mok0: I was reading it on REVU, but thanks anyway.
<minghua> mok0: Looks pretty free to me.  The only problem would be the advertise clause.
<mok0> minghua: yes
<seb128> hi
<mok0> minghua: do you know what the policy is on that?
<dholbach> hey seb128
 * dholbach hugs seb128
<seb128> is "Luca Falavigna <dktrkranz@ubuntu.com>" connected on IRC?
<dholbach> happy REVU day!
<seb128> dholbach: thanks ;-)
<dholbach> seb128: it's dktrkranz on IRC too
<minghua> mok0: I'd say go ahead and prepare for universe upload, I may look at it when I have time.
<seb128> dholbach: ok, so he's not around
<seb128> thanks
<dholbach> doesn't look like it
<minghua> mok0: No idea about the advertisement clause.  It may be indeed not DFSG-free.  Ubuntu probably don't care, though.
<seb128> his tora upload looks like typically something that should be on sync with Debian, changes are a call to dh_icons and a builddep change
<seb128> and he didn't send the changes to debian
<mok0> minghua: ... isn't multiverse meant for weird license issues like that?
<minghua> mok0: To be honest with you, I don't know exactly what is "free" in Ubuntu's terms.  I know there are differences with DFSG, though.
<minghua> mok0: For example, IIRC, CC-BY-SA is free for main/universe in Ubuntu, but not DFSG-free for Debian.
<LucidFox> o_O why?
<mok0> minghua: ok
<mok0> minghua: you feel like reviewing it ;-)
<minghua> mok0: The problem is that nobody else seems interested in cluster computation stuff. :-(
<minghua> And I'm busy.
<mok0> minghua: I might lure someone else into reviewing it
<LucidFox> TheMuso> Regarding the transitional package, I listed the architecture as "all" because it contains no architecture-dependent files. Is this incorrect?
<mok0> minghua: perhaps we should form a cluster computing interest group
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Um... Let me check. I thought you set the transitional package to architecture any.
<LucidFox> wait, I did.
<slangasek> minghua: CC-BY-SA 2.0 (if I remember the version number right) appears to be acceptable for main, since they fixed the key bugs in version 1
<LucidFox> It's any.
<LucidFox> So it should be all?
<TheMuso> Yes if it doesn't contain any architecture dependent files, which being a transitional package, it shouldn't.
<LucidFox> Thanks.
<LucidFox> Is it okay for the transitional package to contain a symlink /usr/bin/avidemux -> avidemux2_gtk?
<minghua> slangasek: Thanks for the clarification.
<minghua> slangasek: tango-icon-theme is still in non-free, though.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: If the package depends on another that contains that file, and the dependency is strictly versioned, yes it should be ok. As it is, theres no point, since a transitional package is only to pull in dependencies that replace it, and nothing else.
<slangasek> minghua: sorry, I just checked and I had the version number wrong; it's CC-BY-SA 3.0 that has the bugfixes
<slangasek> and tango-icon-theme lists 2.5
<LucidFox> avidemux (transitional) depends on avidemux-gtk (= ${binary:Version})
<minghua> slangasek: Ah, that makes more sense.
<LucidFox> as for the symlink, I don't think there's any point in having it in avidemux-gtk
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Yes, but as I said, a transitional package doesn't contain anything.
<mok0> minghua: re: clustercomputing, I got wulfware in gutsy, which is pretty nifty
<Riddell> siretart: how come vdr-plugin-xineliboutput had to be backported manually?
<dholbach> LucidFox: commented on it again
<minghua> mok0: We can talk about torque and cluster computing stuff later on -science list.
<mok0> minghua: sure
<mok0> norsetto: re xtide, I've made some icons myself
<norsetto> mok0: cool. Don't forget to license them.
<mok0> norsetto: How do I add them to the package?
<mok0> norsetto: I have never dealt with icons before
<norsetto> moko0: you have two ways: either you add them as .xpm in /debian
<norsetto> mok0: you have two ways: either you add them as .xpm in /debian (soory for the mispell)
<norsetto> mok0: or you uuencode them and add them in /debian. In this latter casse, you need to do on-the-fly decoding during build
<mok0> norsetto: and where are they to be installed?
<norsetto> mok0: they are for the .desktop file, right? In this case they go to /usr/share/pixmaps
<mok0> norsetto: I have several sizes, from 128 -> 16 pixels
<norsetto> mok0: you need to provide at least a 48x48 pixels one in there. You can also provide different sizes and install them in /usr/share/icons/hicolor and this also requires registration in gnome (using dh_icons)
<norsetto> for the .desktop file one 48x48 should be sufficient though
<mok0> norsetto: ok. What about KDE, then?
<norsetto> mok0: in 3.5 there is no icon cache, but it is foressen in 4, for which most probably we need to expand the debhelper script
<mok0> norsetto: ok, let's worry about that later, then
<norsetto> mok0: this link: http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html is useful for icons
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> norsetto: thx, I'll read it carefully
<norsetto> mok0: np, hope it helps
<mok0> norsetto: hopefully I can get it done by today
<norsetto> mok0: take your time, there is no rush
<mok0> norsetto: I'm at home with a cold, so it can keep me from feeling sorry for myself :-)
<minghua> mok0: If you can send the icons to upstream and they release regularly, it may be smart just to include one 48x48 XPM icon in the Ubuntu upload.
<minghua> mok0: Then you don't need to play with uuencode/uudecode.
<mok0> minghua: It's an idea, I'll think about it
<minghua> mok0: Although OTOH, upstream needs to figure out where/how to install the icons as well.
<mok0> minghua: I will contact upstream and ask if he wants the icons. I guess he should also put the .desktop entry in there
<mok0> minghua: If he would just put the files in a directory, that would be fine I think
<minghua> mok0: Yeah, doing these things with upstream is always a good idea.
<mok0> What license should I use for the icons? GPL?
<LucidFox> dholbach> reuploaded
<norsetto> mok0: if the package is licensed with a GPL seems a good idea
<mok0> norsetto: I'll check
<LucidFox> norsetto> I have attached debdiffs for higlayout, woodstox and freecol. All of them build, and freecol runs.
<norsetto> mok0: don't use the SA-BY-CC 2.5 or debian will not add them though .....
<norsetto> LucidFox: ok, looks good. For the time being we should limit to sync though. I wonder why debian did not consider using the free java, perhaps it is worth asking them?
<LucidFox> I already filed a debian bug for free-java-sdk in higlayout.
<LucidFox> However, it's not possible for woodstox and freecol. I modified them to build with icedtea, which is not in Debian.
<mok0> norsetto: xtide is GPL v. 2
<LucidFox> (Specifically, they depend on classes only in Java 6, and not in Classpath yet.)
<norsetto> LucidFox: ah! ok
<norsetto> proppy: morning
<proppy> hi !
<norsetto> proppy: how is your miserable monday?
<proppy> norsetto: nice
<proppy> I've just been playing with soya3d examples
<proppy> and will report a bug against its debian packaging
<proppy> very interesting
<proppy> :)
<proppy> (apt-cache show python-soya3d)
<proppy> norsetto: and yours ?
<norsetto> !info python-soya3d
<ubotu> Package python-soya3d does not exist in gutsy
<proppy> :(
<norsetto> !info python-soya3d hardy
<ubotu> Package python-soya3d does not exist in hardy
<norsetto> proppy: there you are :-)
<proppy> !info python-soya
<ubotu> python-soya: high level 3D engine for Python. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.13.2-3ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 1073 kB, installed size 3924 kB
<proppy> !info python-soya-doc
<ubotu> python-soya-doc: high level 3D engine for Python. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.1-1 (gutsy), package size 1739 kB, installed size 2368 kB
<proppy> all the .py files in the tutorial are gzip by default
<proppy> and the data too
<proppy> you have to run something like find . | grep gz$ |  gunzip
<norsetto> proppy: yes, thats debian policy if the size is above a certain limit (don't remember which one)
<proppy> tu be able to run them
<proppy> let me check
<proppy> (the size of the example against the limit of the policy)
<proppy> norsetto: and you how are you ?
<norsetto> proppy: they are in /usr/share/ right?
<proppy> on this bloody money
<proppy> yep
<proppy> /usr/share/doc/python-soya-doc/tutorial/game_skel-3.py.gz
<norsetto> proppy: money is all bloody ;-)
<proppy> /usr/share/doc/python-soya-doc/tutorial/data/blender/knife.blend.gz
<proppy> s/money/monday :)
<proppy> /usr/share/doc/python-soya-doc/tutorial/data/worlds/ferme.data.gz
<proppy> norsetto: is this the correct reference for the doc policy http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html ?
<norsetto> proppy: yes, I would think so
<proppy> cause they don't say that examples should be compressed
<imbrandon> moins
<proppy> imbrandon: hi
<imbrandon> heya proppy how goes it
<norsetto> proppy: well, the size limit is 4k
<imbrandon> proppy: anything more than 4k
<proppy> imbrandon: nice, I had steack and eggs for breakfast !
<norsetto> proppy: just checked in dh_compress
<norsetto> proppy: swine :-)
<imbrandon> hehe :)
<imbrandon> ok opinions , how evil is this
<imbrandon> +builddist = $(shell lsb_release -si) install -g root -o root -m 644 \
<imbrandon> -		mirror.list debian/apt-mirror/etc/apt/mirror.list
<imbrandon> +		debian/${builddist}-mirror.list debian/apt-mirror/etc/apt/mirror.list
<proppy> norsetto: dhcompress --exclude tutorial ?
<imbrandon> based on if its built for debian or ubuntu
<proppy> hi
<proppy> oups :)
<proppy> maybe these files are to be put somewhere else for not to be compressed
 * dholbach hugs proppy, Czessi, imbrandon and norsetto
<dholbach> how's it going guys?
<huats> morning proppy
<norsetto> proppy: the policy dictates that examples should be in /usr/share/doc
<LucidFox> norsetto> Incidentally, what do you mean by "we should limit to sync"? Limit to unmodified packages?
<huats> hey dholbach
<imbrandon> moins dholbach , good, just wakin up
<Czessi> Morning
<dholbach> hey huats
<norsetto> hiya dholbach!
<huats> proppy: apparently you did something this morning
<proppy> huats: ?
 * proppy hugs dholbach
<proppy> norsetto: I get another package in debian : http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=proppy@aminche.com :)
<norsetto> LucidFox: I've never done this, but I assume that we should first sync as is from debian, and then patch it; I wouldn't know how to patch it first and then ask for it to be archived!?
<huats> proppy: apparently you did something that norsetto think might interest me...
<norsetto> proppy: so there: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=norsetto@ubuntu.com
<proppy> norsetto: I beat you :)
<LucidFox> Hmm. If I ask the Debian developer to build-depend on icedtea-java7-jdk | sun-java6-jdk, which one is the LP build system going to pick?
<proppy> huats: I'll be glad to share, do you want me to guess ?
<norsetto> proppy: ok, I surrender :-)
<imbrandon> proppy / norsetto : http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=brandon@imbrandon.com ( ~50k popcon )
<imbrandon> :)
<proppy> huats: are you interested in juce packaging ?
<proppy> huats: are you interesting in a swf backend for cairo ?
<norsetto> imbrandon: we hate you with all our gutsy :-)
<imbrandon> hehe
<proppy> huats: are you interested in versioning tiddlywiki with mercurial ?
<proppy> huats: are you interested in freesoftware poker ?
<imbrandon> swf backend for cairo ?
<huats> proppy: honnestly I am not sure :D
<norsetto> LucidFox: the selection is from left to right
<proppy> you beat me imbrandon :(
<huats> proppy: well poker, might be interested
<huats> :)Ã 
<proppy> huats: are you interested in python ?
<proppy> huats: apt-get install python-poker2d
<LucidFox> Ah, then it should build. I'll ask him to merge the necessary changes.
<proppy> huats: apt-get source and improve please !
<huats> proppy: I tend to be more and more interested in python actually
<proppy> huats: go so that the thing norsetto told you about me ? :)
<huats> proppy:  the thing is I don't know...  only norsetto  knows it :)
<proppy> huats: norsetto seems to like introduce people to each others :)
<proppy> maybe he will upload some kind of dating site for ubuntu developers and mentors
<huats> proppy: oh, apparently it is related to your breakfast
<norsetto> proppy: I'm a pairing specialist .....
<imbrandon> LucidFox: iirc it should pickup the first one listed first, but i would try it on a PPA first ( buildd simulation )
<proppy> huats: steak and eggs ?
 * imbrandon looks arround for some Mt. Dew
<proppy> imbrandon: want to help in the swf backend for cairo /join #osflash
<imbrandon> proppy: i really dont have the time to take on something new atm, but i think its interesting
<proppy> !info lib-visual
<ubotu> Package lib-visual does not exist in gutsy
<proppy> !info libvisual
<ubotu> Package libvisual does not exist in gutsy
<imbrandon> !info libvisual-0.4-0
<ubotu> libvisual-0.4-0: Audio visualization framework. In component main, is optional. Version 0.4.0-1.1 (gutsy), package size 128 kB, installed size 400 kB
<imbrandon> :)
<proppy> imbrandon: I only hacked the curve_to in a couple of hour session, but it's definitly something achievable and interesting
<imbrandon> libvisual is the source package, the bot looks at binary packages
<proppy> imbrandon: how ok
<norsetto> proppy: you can't win with imbrandon
<norsetto> proppy: heisbrandon you know
<proppy> imbrandon: audio visualization framework, I'm not sure I get it :)
<imbrandon> proppy: when you play music in xmms or amarok it makes pretty stuff on your screen
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: nice
<imbrandon> lol
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: in opengl ?
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: where ?
<imbrandon> yes
<imbrandon> where what ?
<norsetto> imwithbrandon: if you can't win, join them (definetively good tactic :-))
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: in a new window ?
<imbrandon> yea in its own window most of the time, its plugin based, e.g. just a framework for any player to use
<imbrandon> and sometimes full screen like a screensaver
<imwithbrandon> imwithbrandon: rdepends ?
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: nice
<imbrandon> depends on how its implmented
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: I will look at the rdepends to get a sample
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i know amarok,i think xmms , and i think some others
<LucidFox> I also uploaded the libraries to REVU, if this will help matters anyhow. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libhiglayout-java http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libwoodstox-java
<imwithbrandon> norsetto: you're the one who teach me this one :)
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: ah totem thing is based on it
<norsetto> imwithbrandon: I plead guilty
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: is there a way to hook it on any data flow ? (to display nice thing from the wiimote motion for example ?)
<imbrandon> hrm , never thought about it, i'm sure it wqould be POSSIBLE
<imwithbrandon> imbrandon: I will keep that in mind the next time I get a wiimote next to me :)
<imbrandon> yea lots of things depend on it,
<imbrandon> imbrandon@hood:~$ apt-rdepends -r libvisual-0.4-0|wc -l
<imbrandon> 139
<proppy> yep
<imbrandon> any DD's awake :) /me needs a sid upload
<LucidFox> dholbach> replied in the bug thread
<proppy> huats: seriously is there some python thing you want to talk ?
<proppy> yeepee someone is packaging fluxus
<persia> As I'm backscroll-lazy today, is anyone waiting for a REVU?
<proppy> hi persia
<imbrandon> heya persia , not that i have noticed in the last bit
<persia> hi proppy
<proppy> persia: finally I'm not going to japan (this year)
<persia> imbrandon: Thanks.  I'll just chase old ones then :)
<persia> proppy: You're not?  Why not?
<persia> Oh, right, I remember.  This is a good thing :)  Congrats!
<proppy> persia: thanks :)
<persia> Does anyone know if 4-clause BSD is DFSG-free?
<persia> (+ advertising)
<seb128> DktrKranz: hi
<DktrKranz> hi seb128
<seb128> DktrKranz: any reason you didn't send the tora changes to Debian?
<DktrKranz> seb128, IIRC, it was already reported. Anyway, I'm checking
<DktrKranz> seb128, you're right... it was a different issue. I'll do it right now. thanks.
<seb128> DktrKranz: no problem, thank you for sending the change to Debian, so maybe next time we can sync directly ;-)
<frenchy> Greetings MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv.
<frenchy> I've run out of things to do so I invite you to "let me have it".
<frenchy> persia: linda/lintian complete.  No errors except for the menu file which has section="Applications/Viewers" which is now the new place for "Apps/Viewers".
<frenchy> persia: Apparently, the rules haven't caught up.
<persia> frenchy: Try the hardy lintian & linda.  They understand.
<frenchy> persia: Will do, thanks.
<frenchy> persia: Obviously REVU is using the hardy ones because there are no errors/warnings on REVU.
<persia> frenchy: Yep.  We try to reduce confusion :)
<ciphergoth> Just having a discussion in #ubuntu-devel, and asked a question which persia recommended I take here to get the right expertise:
<ciphergoth> Those of you who maintain both upstream and the Debian/Ubuntu package - what do you do in your source control?
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: what do you mean?
 * persia looks at frenchy and StevenHarperUK as people currently working on that
<siretart> Riddell: because it provides a xine plugin for a new xine upstream version, which gets installed to a different directory
<ciphergoth> imbrandon: do you have one repository from which you build both the orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz?
<siretart> Riddell: it really needed manual changes to the source dependencies in order to get built against the correct (new) version of xine
<ciphergoth> or two repositories, one for the package and one for the Debian stuff?
<broonie> ciphergoth: A lot of that will depend on the particular VCS in use.
<siretart> I thought the changelog was declarative enough, obviously it wasn't..
<ciphergoth> Is building the .orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz part of your build process?
<ciphergoth> broonie: darcs in our case
<broonie> I'd be surprised if there were many people building the orig.tar.gz by default; it's more trouble than it's worth to reproduce a bit for bit identical one.
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: if you mean keeping debian/ in RCS ? sure, but keep it seperate from the release tar
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: two branches is often enough
<Amaranth> right, just make sure your debian dir doesn't end up in your tarball and that should be enough
<broonie> ciphergoth: You might want to take a look at darcs-buildpackage
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: no one RCS branch holds the main code, the other holds debian/ , youy might peek at the way beryl/compiz* does it
<ciphergoth> my mistake - we use darcs for some stuff, but the package itself is just CVS.  Currently we have one repository that contains both the main sources and the debian directory
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: then it would just be a simple matter of splitting that into two branches, so you can produce a orig.tar without the debian/ in ti
<imbrandon> s/ti/it
<ciphergoth> imbrandon - I'd be more inclined to produce the orig.tar.gz with a script that explicitly deleted the debian/ after checking out the sources
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: that would work too
<ciphergoth> maintaining branches in CVS is so painful
<Amaranth> imbrandon: not anymore :P
<Amaranth> imbrandon: distros do packaging, not upstream :)
<imbrandon> Amaranth: ahh well .... :)
<ciphergoth> Amaranth - we are upstream
<imbrandon> Amaranth: thats a good thing(tm)
<broonie> ciphergoth: There is cvs-buildpackage too. Dunno how it wants the repo but it's been well used
<imbrandon> ciphergoth: yea he was tlaking about my example of beryl/compiz*
<ciphergoth> imbrandon: ah, I see
<ciphergoth> we've written this package and packaged it for Debian/Ubuntu, and so we'd like to get it into Hardy Heron if poss
<imbrandon> they used to host debian/ too but now they just let the distros handle it
<ciphergoth> should we file a bug as usual, and just mention that we've done the technical work as far as we know?
<imbrandon> the most policticly correct way ( and better long term ) is to package it for debian and let it trickle down
<imbrandon> but you can also upload it to REVU for inclusion to ubuntu only atm
<ciphergoth> OK
<imbrandon> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<broonie> For Debian you can ask for package uploads to be sponsored on debian-mentors@lists.debian.org (or by finding a DD willing to do it otherwise)
<ciphergoth> I like the politically correct way, but we'll miss Hardy Heron that way won't we?  It'll be a little while before our package hits unstable, and the Heron package list will be frozen soon, no?
<ciphergoth> We have a sponsor for the Debian side
<imbrandon> if it gets in unstable past NEW in debian soon , it will make it
<persia> ciphergoth: The cutoff requiring manual intervention is December 14th (to get through Debian NEW).
<imbrandon> if it gets close to the deadline you can always have a MOTU sponsor it via REVU
<ciphergoth> this is all amazingly helpful - thank you so much people
<imbrandon> we try to be :)
<persia> ciphergoth: You might also want to look at the pristine-source package, which is intended to generate a reliable orig.tar.gz from a VCS, although I don't know if it works with CVS or if it is useful for upstreams.
<frenchy> ciphergoth: Not sure what you mean.
<frenchy> ciphergoth: Ohhh ... sorry I just caught up.
<ciphergoth> I take it we need to get as far as Debian sid before we can point at Debian as the upstream for Ubuntu?  So if we hit Sid before the 14th, no need for REVU, but if not we should try and get it approved via REVU before then?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> exactly
<imbrandon> REVU can noramly be pushed in as little as 48 hours if everything falls into place, so if its not going to look like it will hit SID before say dec 10th you might start looking at MOTU review via REVU
<imbrandon> but untill then i would push to get it in debian
<persia> ciphergoth: If you're really close to NEW, there's also a manual process to sync if you miss the 14th, but there needs to be a good reason (like: your software is really cool and integrates perfectly)
<Riddell> siretart: ok, accepted
<imbrandon> heya Riddell :)
<siretart> Riddell: thanks!
<geser> StevenK: do you mind if I merge libglade?
<StevenK> geser: Not particularly
<Riddell> hi imbrandon
<effie_jayx> One question
<persia> effie_jayx: Just ask
<effie_jayx> I updated my pbuilder to hardy... is that all I need for packaging stuff for hardy?, I remember downloading some script before...
<persia> That's all you need.  You might want to grab lintian and linda from backports (or maybe even linda from hardy if the backport isn't complete yet).
<dholbach> frenchy: checking out me-tv
<persia> frenchy: me-tv commented
<persia> dholbach: I'm sure you'll catch more, but you might want to refresh so as not to dup too much :)
<dholbach> persia: thanks
 * persia goes on to xca, unless anyone has any requests
 * dholbach hugs persia
 * persia peers about suspiciously, claiming innocence
<dholbach> can we use a fixed font in REVU comments?
<siretart> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> that'd be great :)
 * dholbach hugs siretart
<siretart> hm. only where to set that?
<persia> siretart: You'd want to do it in the CSS, and set a class for the comment boxes
<ScottK> dholbach: Why do you want fixed fonts?
<siretart> persia: puh, I don't really have a clue about css. if someone could send me a patch to the existing css, I'd gladly commit it
<\sh> did I say that I hate php projects like tikiwiki? ,-)
<dholbach> ScottK: sometime I paste something from the commandline and it'd look better with fixed fonts
<dholbach> look at the last comment on the me-tv package
<geser> \sh: php projects in general or only those with open CVEs?
<persia> siretart: I'd be happy to prep a CSS patch (assuming I can remember the syntax), but I'll need the name of the class you're planning to apply for comments.
<\sh> siretart, <span class="comments"> blabla </span> and the css for comments is: comments { font-family: Courier }
<\sh> geser, those projects who are not fixing bugs and documenting it properly
<ScottK> \sh: Is everyone going to have that font installed?
 * persia thinks \sh already provided everything required
<\sh> ScottK, I think Courier is a standard font-family, which matches as well monospace or something like that
<\sh> ScottK, but to be sure, please ask a expert for css rules ,-)
 * persia checks the spec
<soren> \sh: "font-family: monospace" is much better.
<soren> \sh: It's the one from the css2 spec.
<persia> Should be "font-family: monospace"
<\sh> siretart, s/Courier/monospace/
<\sh> thx soren  :)
<\sh> thx persia
<frenchy> dholbach: persia: Thanks muchly.  persia, are you emmet?
<persia> frenchy: Yes.  Has my client eaten my /whois again?
<siretart> \sh: ok. but only where in the revu code? :)
<frenchy> persia: I'm new to IRC.
<\sh> siretart, where you print the comments :)
<persia> frenchy: No worries.  it's just that about a month ago I was named "purple" on one network and "nobody" on another, for reasons I don't understand.
<siretart> \sh: somewhere in http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~revu-hackers/revu/trunk/annotate/ajmitch%40ubuntu.com-20071113114707-9fcge2nn3arawg93?file_id=details.py-20060622101805-5b61dbbdd21644df, probably
<\sh> siretart, so something like print STDOUT "<span class=\"comments\">"+dbfield->comments+"</span>" and add the css stuff to your css file...or <span style="font-family: monospace">comments<span>
<\sh> siretart, in  <table>
<\sh> 88 		        <tr> <th>Date</th><th>Reviewer</th><th>Comment</th> <th>Advocating</th><th>Actions</th></tr>
<\sh> 89 		        %s
<\sh> 90 		</table>
<\sh> 91 	132.1.2 	""" % (comments))
<\sh> siretart, oh you add the <tr> stuff to (comments)
<\sh> siretart, I think then in getcomments method
<siretart> \sh: indeed
<frenchy> dholbach: A question about "No download files exist for this project." at URL you specified".  Are you referring to the watch file.
<frenchy> ?
<siretart> \sh: let's try that with span and the css
<\sh> siretart, in getcomments function then...
<dholbach> frenchy: I clicked on the link in the debian/copyright file
<frenchy> dholbach: I just removed the download files form the project site yesterday because people can get hem from the PPA now.  What If I told you that it was downloaded from there ... then removed .. yes ... I am a smart-ass.
<\sh> oh I hate tikiwiki....this is so evil..why don't they add the CVE number for their sec fixes
<dholbach> ah ok
<ScottK> frenchy: If I was reviewing your package I'd not advocate it based on the source is missing.
<frenchy> ScottK: sorry, I don't understand.
<ScottK> Well if you put in Debian copyright that the source was gotten from a location and it's not there, how can I tell if I've got the correct upstream tarball or not?
<frenchy> ScottK: Ohhhh ... the doanload source.
<frenchy> ScottK: Yep, yep, yep ... Sorry it's 01:02 here.
<ScottK> No problem.
<frenchy> Do I need a man page for a GTK app anyway?
<frenchy> I actually have GNOME help.
<ScottK> That doesn't obviate the man page requirement.
<frenchy> ScottK: Is there a requirement for a man page?
<ScottK> frenchy: Generally Linitian will complain at you if it's needed.
 * ScottK is still waking up, so I don't recall the exact rule.
<persia> There's not a requirement, but almost no REVU reviewers will advocate without one.  If nothing else, it's a good way to get into the whatis and apropos databases.
<frenchy> Can I use my PPA as a download location?
<persia> frenchy: No.  You need to have an upstream tar.gz.  This is important to 1) allow other distributions to package the software, and 2) allow paranoid users to download the official original sources.
<persia> (that's what the /+downloads area is designed for: use it and enjoy)
 * persia solicits nominations for the final review in this session
<frenchy> persia: But the PPA has that.
<frenchy> persia: I mean orig.tar.gz is the upstream right?
<persia> frenchy: No, the PPA has an orig.tar.gz that the PPA owner claims is the official version.
<frenchy> persia: ok ... yeah ...
<siretart> voilÃ ! comments monospaced now!
<persia> frenchy: Technically, you're right.  Further, in practice you're right.  Even more, because you're the same person, you're right.  On the other hand, the policy is there to cover the cases where this might not be true.
<frenchy> persia: Exactly the argument I was about to make.  But ok ... rules is rules ... I'll just put the files back.
<frenchy> persia: Atleast that'll ge thte watch file working again.
<ScottK> dholbach: Are you keeping the list if MOTU Launchpad bugs now?
<persia> frenchy: Thanks.  Sorry for the confusion, but the policy isn't really designed for upstreams packaging their own software :)
<persia> There is an official list?  How should I submit my bugs there.
<persia> Also, isn't LaserRock still the LP liaison?
<dholbach> ScottK: no
<ScottK> dholbach: OK.
<ScottK> persia: I think you're right.  I guess he still does it.
<ScottK> LaserRock: I think Bug #157064 is already on your list.  It just got pushed from 1.1.11 to 1.2.1.  It's a regression for goodness sake.  I really wish LP developers would quit breaking stuff by accident.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157064 in soyuz "New release renders publishing history page unuseable" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157064
<frenchy> persia: Yeah, it seems strange to me that Canonical has put so much effort into LP to make it easy for people to develop for Ubuntu but there aren't a lot of developer/maintainers around.
<frenchy> persia: Ubuntu is new I guess.
<frenchy> persia: newish.
<ScottK> Personally, I see them putting a lot of effort into stuff that actually makes it harder, but that's just me.
<persia> frenchy: New, but also LP makes it easy to develop free software, and to develop Ubuntu.  I don't think there is any special effort to develop free software on Ubuntu (although now that PPAs are released, this is less strictly true).
<dholbach> does somebody know if there was a 'motu' tag or something for those bugs?
<persia> dholbach: There's not a "motu" tag on most of the motu-interesting bugs to which I'm subscribed.
<frenchy> persia: Honestly, do you think that I'm doing this the wrong way around.  Should I focus on developing a "kick-ass" application, gain popularity then let one of the pros package it?
<ScottK> dholbach: I think there was a tag, but I don't recall what it was.
<dholbach> hm ok
<frenchy> persia: Exactly what I was referring to .. someone pointed that out to me only today ... that LP is becoming great for developing for Ubuntu.
<persia> frenchy: Doesn't really matter.  I'd focus on developing a "kick-ass" application, but it doesn't hurt to take a short detour to package it, and then just push it into the archives when you have a new release.  if the application is interesting enough, a team may adopt it.
<geser> dholbach: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.tag=motu
<dholbach> "karma for uploads!"
<frenchy> persia: But I doubt that I'm going to get it done for hardy.  It hasn't been a waste though ... now that it's packaged properly, I'm able to use the PPA and distribute the application that way.  It's great.
<persia> There used to be karma for uploads, then it went away.  Is it coming back?
<siretart> \sh: thanks for the hint with the css, applied and pushed to bzr
<persia> frenchy: You're really close.  There's only a couple little things (other than the missing download link).
<dholbach> persia: I'm not sure there ever was
<\sh> siretart, cool :)
<persia> dholbach: back in Dapper I used to get a karma bump for uploads (and used to care enough to watch for that).
<dholbach> I can't remember that
<persia> It was right before the infinite karma issue began :)
<frenchy> persia: Thanks for the encouragement but I still then have to get someone to advocate it.  I imagine that on;y people with a DVB card that use GNOME are going to be interested.
<frenchy> persia: Sorry, 2 people to advocate it.
<persia> frenchy: There are quite a few: once the packaging is clean, ping the mythbuntu team, who probably have a set of DVB testers somewhere.
<persia> If the app is good, and useful, they'll likely be happy to advocate it.
<ian_brasil> hey...i submitted a package to revu (mobileguide)...if someone has time i would really appreciate some feedback on it...thx
<frenchy> persia: Hmmm ... ok ... I'll bash it out tonight.
<persia> frenchy: Thanks
<frenchy> Ohh ... with the exception of the man page.  That'll take time.
<frenchy> We've used the groff standard.
<\sh> finally, tikiwiki in gutsy fixed
<proppy> persia: do you know how to show the panel for asia langage input, I can't get my hands on it
<persia> proppy: Install SCIM, select a SCIM input method, and away you go.
<norsetto> proppy: ç´ æ´ãããé£äºãæãããã
<norsetto> proppy: does it make any sense :-) ?
<proppy> norsetto: I don't know kanji yet :)
<proppy> persia: thanks It was already installed I was just not remembering the command to launch :)
<geser> norsetto: ã
<frenchy> persia: "No upstream changelog is installled in the package" ... There's a ChangeLog (I believe this to be the standard) in the top.
<norsetto> geser: ok, that looks like an y, so it must be "yes"....
<frenchy> persia: Did I mess something?
<frenchy> s/mess/miss/
<frenchy> Actually, scratch that ... I like mess.
<geser> norsetto: more like a :)
<norsetto> geser: lol
<persia> ãã®ãã£ãã«ã§è±èªã ããé¡ããã¾ã
<norsetto> Just English we ask with this channel :-)
<persia> frenchy: It's not getting caught by dh_changelogs, and is not appearing in the binary packages.
<frenchy> persia: Oh ... I must have to add it as an EXTRA_DIST I think.
<frenchy> persia: Makefile.am
<persia> frenchy: No, it's a packaging thing.  As upstream, you've done it perfectly.  As the packager, you're just not installing the upstream file.
<geser> can we get a list similar to http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs also for builds in DEPWAIT state?
<effie_jayx> ok.. I just devored the wiki and I need more info on lintian and linda...  I know they are "static checkers, meaning they check the package without running any files, which is fast and secure" quoting a talk... but any use examples ?
<norsetto> persia: is it normal practice to upload new upstream versions every 5 days?
<geser> effie_jayx: linda package.dsc or lintian package.dsc
<persia> geser: That's a great idea.  Are you up for porting the code, or do you need a hand?
<geser> effie_jayx: or on the binary .changes file if you've build the package
<persia> norsetto: Depends how closely upstream takes "release early, release often" to heart :)
<geser> persia: where can I see the code for it?
<persia> geser: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/ftbfs/ftbfs.py
<persia> dktrkranz: Please add a source link on the ftbfs page
<\sh> dholbach, from whom do we sync tikiwiki, if not from debian?
<frenchy> persia: I don't have a dh_changelogs installed and googling bought back 2 results.
<persia> frenchy: That's because I'm an idiot.  "dh_installchangelogs"
<frenchy> persia: Sorry, Der ... I should've seen that.
<jdong> Amaranth / ScottK: I think there's a fundamental difference with Envy in that the author genuinely has Ubuntu's best interests in mind and takes in our advice without any resistance...
<dholbach> \sh: no idea - was it removed from debian?
<dholbach> *shrug*
<jdong> and what Envy tries to do is inherently prone to breakage to begin with, and probably isn't much safer if done by hand
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> Did Envy get on the "evil scripts" list?  Why?
<effie_jayx> geser,  thanks ... do I have to install linda and linthia... are they parto of some dev package?
<persia> effie_jayx: They are package names
<\sh> dholbach, looks like that...it's not findable via p.d.o
<geser> effie_jayx: linda and lintian are packages of their own
<\sh> dholbach, I'm just asking on debian-security
<persia> \sh: Ask p.qa.d.o, which also lists removed pacakges
<effie_jayx> ok
<jdong> persia: apparently it did....
<jdong> !envy
<ubotu> envy is not needed or supported. Use the Resticted Manager to install binary drivers and see Â« /msg ubotu binarydriver Â»
<persia> jdong: I'd argue that's the appropriate response for ubotu, but am just surprised, as Envy seems to be as clean as is possible for what it does.  On the other hand, it is completely unsupportable.
<geser> \sh: Debian bug #427655
<ubotu> Debian bug 427655 in ftp.debian.org "RM: tikiwiki -- RoM, license issues, bad security history" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/427655
<jdong> persia: the old factoid was much harsher
 * persia encourages the filing of a removal bug
<jdong> persia: but yeah, I agree with your evaluation -- it does what it does "the right way" but what it tries to do is inherently unsupportable
<\sh> geser, yeah...just reading the followeup
<\sh> damn
<\sh> work done for nothing
 * jdong looks at the motumedia PPA build of mpeg4ip and wonders why it's been building for 24 hours
<soren> jdong: Stuff takes time :)
<jdong> util/testnasm.sh: line 8: test: =: unary operator expected
<jdong> uh oh bashismville
<jdong> what's our policy on disabling test suites? ;-)
<soren> jdong: Just make it use bash if that's the problem?
<jdong> it's rather unpleasant to have to run a 23 hour test suite on a 5 minute build.
<jdong> soren: yeah definitely will do
<soren> jdong: Look like an infinite loop to me..
<jdong> soren: yeah, is there any way to interrupt the build?
<persia> jdong: Ask a buildd admin very nicely?
<soren> jdong: Ask in #launchpad
<jdong> I feel bad for plugging up an entire PPA builder for a day
<frenchy> persia: So I can't call it orig.tar.gz even on the download site?  Is that what you mean?  I have to manually rename it?
<persia> frenchy: It's best practice.  Distributions that don't use debian-style packaging don't use orig.tar.gz.  The rename is easy, and uscan will do it automatically if your watch file works.
<\sh> persia, please add +1 to bug #165187
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165187 in tikiwiki "Please remove tikiwiki from ubuntu archives" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165187
<\sh> thx :)
 * persia was waiting for ubotu to tell #ubuntu-bugs
<\sh> oh wow...jamendo has really good music
<persia> OK.  REVU backlog down to 1 month.
<bddebian> Heya gang
 * persia passes the reviewing torch to bddebian, and wanders off for a bit
<bddebian> Doh, hi persia
<persia> bddebian: Hey.  Did you ever get scorched3d sorted, or do you still need someone to look at the 64-bit stuff?
<bddebian> persia: I'm not sure where Fuddl is at, I'll ask, thanks
<persia> Also, there's a darkplaces on REVU that looked interesting: still needs some work, but maybe worth watching.
<persia> bddebian: OK.  I somehow passed that in my queue, so you've a priority bump if it's still not sorted :)
<frenchy> persia: Re: license missing in Glade file.  The license is definitely in the about dialog.
<bddebian> persia: heh, OK
<frenchy> persia: Not sure that you mean.
<persia> frenchy: Right, the license for the program is displayed, but the glade source itself doesn't have a license header as an XML comment (I'm a stickler for these things: they may not matter to everyone).
<norsetto> I didn't know Linda had a sense of humour: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easycrypt-0711251540/linda
<persia> norsetto: You just have to catch her on the right day
<norsetto> persia: yes, pretty funky
<persia> Also, isn't that already in the archives?  I don't understand why it appears in that section.
<frenchy> persia: And I like a stickler.  Sorry, but I've been googling and dl'ing packages ... none of which have lead me to a find on how to do this.  Do I just do it as a massive comment block?  The issue is .. will glade clobber it?
<norsetto> persia: well, talking about uploading new upstreams every 5 days ....
<persia> frenchy: Yes, a massive comment block would keep me from saying anything.  I don't know if glade preserves comments.
<persia> norsetto: There's an interdiff for that version that went through the queue recently as well.
<norsetto> persia: yes, one day after I uploaded the previous version
<persia> norsetto: No, .12 was one day after you uploaded the previous version :)  The interdiff was for .15.  Which version is up now?
<norsetto> persia: oh $deity, I lost the count
<persia> heh
<frenchy> persia: I'll do that then.  I haven't touched development in weeks anyway.
<persia> frenchy: Thanks.  Here's hoping you'll have no more Ubuntu-related excuse to defer development soon :)
<bddebian> heh
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
 * persia grumbles at `baz`, claiming that metasyntactic variables make poor command names.
<AuntyProton> Is this the place to ask for a package update?
<persia> AuntyProton: Only if you're proposing to do the work, and need some help
<dholbach> AuntyProton: best to file a bug on the package and tag it as 'upgrade'
<dholbach> .... or ask for help to do it yourself :-)
 * dholbach hugs persia
<AuntyProton> <-- recoils in shock.
<AuntyProton> I'm not a programmer, I'm a science-fiction writer.
<persia> AuntyProton: Why in shock?  A package update isn't too hard, and we're more than happy to help: we're just usually busy, and have a hard time getting to everything.
<dholbach> that'll give your share of science-fiction for the day :-)
<persia> AuntyProton: An update doesn't usually involve programming: it's mostly testing to make sure that the packaging for the old version still works with the new version.  If you're an active user, and have a technical mind, you're all set.
<AuntyProton> I e-mailed the programmers of the package in question and they said they're not in charge of when their packages get updated.
<dholbach> persia is right, package upgrades are straight-forward in most cases
<persia> AuntyProton: On the other hand, if you're also busy, we understand.  In that case, your best bet is to file a bug, and add the "upgrade" tag, as dholbach suggested.
<AuntyProton> Wait, you guys may not have understood. The programmers are currently distributing their newest version, but for some reason it's not on the Synaptic or Add/Remove lists.
<persia> The package is missing entirely, or an old version appears in Synaptic?
<AuntyProton> The old version is still in Synaptic and Add/Remove.
<persia> Ah.  Which package?
<AuntyProton> Zim.  It's a desktop wiki package.
<RainCT> Hi
<persia> We're planning on shipping 0.20 in hardy, but zim is likely one of our least well-maintained packages: I'm surprised it works for anyone at all.
 * persia was looking at the bug reports last week
<AuntyProton> Hmm.... well, I use it.  And the bug I found isn't life-threatening, just annoying.
<persia> AuntyProton: And it's fixed in 0.20?
<AuntyProton> Yeah.  Or so the programmers claim.
<RainCT> what should I do if a tarball has capital letter in the name of the directory inside it? (dh_make complains about this)
<persia> AuntyProton: In that case, the best thing to do is either wait for hardy, or file a backports request.  Given the poor maintenance record, I think someone needs to test and clean up the old bug reports before we can do a backport.
<AuntyProton> Okay, I can wait.  Just wanted you guys to know there was a problem.
<persia> AuntyProton: Looking briefly at the package, I believe it should compile cleanly on gutsy: I just think we need to clean it up a bit before it gets a backport.  Would you mind filing a bug from https://launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+filebug, and subscribing me (LP name is "persia")?
 * persia was planning to look at zim anyway, but this will be an incentive
<persia> Ah.  I'm slow, as usual.  Too bad.
<persia> RainCT: untar it, move the directory to the preferred "packagename-version" format (all lowercase), do your packaging (do you really want dh_make?  It's just 4 files).  Then when you build your package, the tools will be smart enough to ignore the capital letters in the upstream tarball.
<RainCT> persia: great, thanks
<persia> dholbach: Is there by any chance a more general documentation link?  I'd like to encourage people to read packaging stuff, but also process & policy stuff.
<dholbach> process + policy stuff is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<dholbach> everything necessary should be linked from there
<persia> Right.  MOTU/Documentation used to have a mix.  Maybe we need two links.  I'll go look at MOTU/Contributing again.
<dholbach> the packaging guide had its own list of documentation resources in the appendix
<persia> dholbach: Nevermind.  The new list is incredibly nice, clean, and comprehensive.  Beautiful work!
<dholbach> i just merged the two
<dholbach> and [[Include(...)]] it in the packaging guide
<frenchy> Greetings MOTUs and MOTUettes, I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv
<persia> dholbach: What do you have against inline patches? (not that I don't agree that those belonged upstream)
<frenchy> persia: Thanks for all your help.  I look forward to hearing your comments.
<frenchy> dholbach: Sorry, my thanks to you to.  I think that you raised some very good points.
<frenchy> dholbach: The diff is now pretty clean.
<dholbach> I personally think it's cleaner and patches are easier to drop, etc - but that's the decision of each and every maintainer
<dholbach> persia: sorry ^
<dholbach> persia: so I don't have anything against them, I just prefer to have them in a patch system - if somebody is convinced to have them inline, that's ok with me
<persia> dholbach: Ah.  Makes sense.  Just seeing your other comment I thought you had a negative view of one, as opposed to a positive preference for the other.  No worries.
<dholbach> sorry, I should have put this more positively
<dholbach> frenchy: anytime :)
<frenchy> Gotta go to work in a few hours so  ... goodnight ... french, out.
<dholbach> frenchy: take care
<persia> frenchy: Minor point (and not enough to reject): dh_installman is handy for pushing your manpages in the right place.  I can't test, so I won't advocate.  Nice job.
<frenchy> persia: got it.  Bed, now, sleep.
<nxvl_work> persia: did you remember the FTBFS wich i was fixing yesterday?
<nxvl_work> persia: i've e-mail the DM and he said that he will fix this on next release, should i fix it anyway or wait?
<persia> nxvl_work: Your call.  Generally I tend to push an Ubuntu upload if the package appears in one of the NBS lists, or I just feel like it (e.g. I use the package and am annoyed by it being broken, or I am supporting someone specifically).  If there's no good reason to do Ubuntu faster, waiting for Debian is OK, but if that doesn't happen by 14th December, best to upload to Ubuntu anyway.
<nxvl_work> persia: so, wait until it's released, but on 14 December if it isn't, patch it?
<persia> nxvl_work: Unless it appears in the NBS lists, or there's another good reason to upload sooner, yes.
<nxvl_work> !NBS
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about nbs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<persia> nxvl_work: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: the link os on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> s/os/is
<persia> ubotu: NBS is Some packages are no longer built from source as a result of various transitions.  The reverse dependencies of these packages require an update.  The current tracking list is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<nxvl_work> it isn't there, so lets wait, moving to next FTBFS
<persia> nxvl_work: By "isn't there", do you mean, "Doesn't appear in the directory listing" or do you mean "doesn't appear in any of the files"?
<nxvl_work> doesn't apear on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<persia> nxvl_work: That's just the list of package.  Click on the links where the size > 0 to get a list of the packages that should be updated sooner.
<persia> Err..  The list of packages no longer built from source.
<Pici> !nbs
<ubotu> Some packages are no longer built from source as a result of various transitions.  The reverse dependencies of these packages require an update.  The current tracking list is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/
<persia> Pici: Thank you
<Pici> persia: no problem :)
<nxvl_work> persia: oh! that list show the packages doesn't build because of other packages?
<persia> nxvl_work: Sort of.  That list shows the packages that won't exist soon, and for each, there is a list of packages that need to be updated so they won't break when the NBS packages are removed.
<persia> nxvl_work: As an example, there's been a transition of the libxmp library, so some packages need to be rebuilt or ported to the new API.  The list of affected packages is available from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/libxmp2
<nxvl_work> oh! ok ok
<nxvl_work> :D
<nxvl_work> why is there some packages on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/#universe which i can't find on packages.ubuntu.com??
<xzased> hiya all
<xzased> anybody knows how to unblock video ports?
<jpatrick> xzased: support in #ubuntu
<xzased> woops
<LucidFox> What is the xine-lib transition mentioned in Bug #159338?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159338 in oxine "Re: Heads-up: small xine-lib transition in hardy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159338
<persia> LucidFox: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002617.html
<LucidFox> If a package doesn't explicitly depend on libxine1, will rebuilding it fix the problem?
<persia> LucidFox: It's not a rebuild issue, it's that packages need to explicity depend on a front-end package, or they won't get one.
<persia> (well, it's a rebuild too, but that's not the important bit)
<LucidFox> Ah.
<nxvl_work> does install accepts list arguments like {item1,item2}?
<gpocentek> nxvl_work: {item1,item2} is a bashism if I'm not wrong
<nxvl_work> gpocentek: so it won't?
<gpocentek> nxvl_work: install can use this, but if you use it for a package, the build will fail
<nxvl_work> so instead of it i need to use a for
<gpocentek> I think so
<persia> nxvl_work: Which are you trying to do?  There's a few make constructions which integrate batter in debian/rules than a for statement
<nxvl_work> persia: cereal, on the Makefile
 * persia points at sections 4.5, 8.5, and 6 of the make manual for reference
<persia> nxvl_work: More context please
<nxvl_work> persia: on cereal package
<cprov> ScottK: ping, wonna talk about bug #157064 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157064 in soyuz "New release renders publishing history page unuseable" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157064
<nxvl_work> on it's Makefile it says "install fs/usr/share/cereal/{log,main}run $(PREFIX)/share/cereal/"
<ScottK> Yes?
<ScottK> cprov: ?
<nxvl_work> and the build error is that it doesn't fin file "}fs/usr/share/cereal/{log,main}run"
<ScottK> cprov: I'll discuss it if needed, but I just want it back like it was.
<geser> nxvl_work: looks like bashism
 * ScottK isn't sure what's unclear about that.
<nxvl_work> so i think it's because isn't accepting the {} list format
<nxvl_work> geser: yep, it looks like it for me too
<persia> nxvl_work: Ah.  If it's that small, it's probably best to just make it two lines, rather than either a for statement or nifty make recursion
<cprov> ScottK: it's impossible to revert the layout change and continue to present removal details.
<ScottK> Did someone ask for removal details?
<cprov> ScottK: so, you have to describe what you are missing from the table layout.
<ScottK> cprov: What I'm missing is the ability to figure out if a second or two what relates to what release.
<cprov> ScottK: distro-team, otherwise they can't track package deletions.
<ScottK> cprov: It takes an order of magnitude longer to orient and read through the narrative text.
<ScottK> cprov: Then why not just add another column to the table?
<persia> cprov: The issue is that it is long.  I don't think +publishinghistory is bad, but if we could have another page with a quick table that listed all the published / superseded / removed entries, it would be a lot easier to check.
<cprov> ScottK: it's not just another column, at least more 3 and it will start scrolling horizontally
<ScottK> persia: The table already got pushed off the source package page.
 * persia notes that it already scrolls horizontally for some screens
<cprov> persia: not in 1024x768, does it ?
<ScottK> cprov: OK.  How about the old table at the top of the page and the new narrative flow underneath?
<persia> cprov: I don't have any devices at 1024x768, so I can't say
<ScottK> cprov: This is a sufficient barrier to work for me that I've decided not to volunteer for the revived motu-sru team because LP is too painful to use.
<ScottK> cprov: You may think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not.
<cprov> ScottK: sounds feasible, a short table as summary (version, series, status) each row linking to the corresponding noisy box below
<persia> cprov: That would be useful
<ScottK> cprov: Yes.  All the stuff that was in the old table.
<cprov> ScottK: ta, comment the bug and I will arrange the things to get it fixed in 1.1.12 for you.
<persia> Does 1.1.12 mean December and 1.2.1 January (roughly)?
<ScottK> cprov: OK.
<cprov> persia: yes, 1.1.12 is the current milestone, that will be out around 20th Dec
<ScottK> cprov: Commented.
<cprov> ScottK: thanks
<persia> cprov: Thanks.
<ScottK> cprov: Next time could we arrange a) not to totally change pages on a release without publishing them to edge first and b) not wait until after a release to un-milestone something that isn't going to get fixed (I expected this fixed in 1.1.11 based on the bug status and had no chance to argue for it not getting dropped, so now I'm stuck for another month).
<cprov> ScottK: sure, i apologize for the mass-deferred bugs from soyuz 1.1.11, it shouldn't happen again.
<imbrandon> hrm
<cprov> ScottK: hopefully I can get this fix cherrypicked with other urgent UI fix. So, you can have it before xmas, take it easier.
<imbrandon> any python gurus got a sec or two to help me with some string manipulation
<ScottK> cprov: Thanks.
<ScottK> imbrandon: What is it?
<imbrandon> i'm wanting to strip a filename if it exists from a string ( url ) like blah.com/index.php would become blah.com/
<imbrandon> i'm already stripping the http:// via
<imbrandon> url.content = url.content[7:len(url.content)]
<ScottK> If I was doing that, I'd split on '/' and take string[0]
<somerville32> Explode based on / and take the appropriate index?
<ScottK> Explode = split
<imbrandon> well some have paths too but i guess that would work
<imbrandon> and i could just cycle through them if they are not a file
<imbrandon> and rejoin
<ScottK> imbrandon: OK.  Then split on '/' and take all but the last and put them back together.
<imbrandon> yup
<ScottK> Yeah.
<imbrandon> cool thanks, i'm a bit braindead sometimes
<ScottK> No problem.  We all are.
<ScottK> It feels a lot better to help someone out than whine about LP.
 * persia likes s/\(.*\)/[^/]*/\1/, but doubts it works in your program
<somerville32> find_user("persia")->terminate();
<zul> hey
<RainCT> heh
<afflux> Can anyone please explain what "6. Package should not be native without an approved spec" in the "Guideline Criteria for New Package Inclusion" (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#NewPackage) means? Is it correct that a upstream package shouldn't contain any debian packaging?
<azeem> sort of
<azeem> however, you can just repack the upstream tarball to make it non-native, or (clunkier) still have it non-native, by just having the diff to the upstream debian packaging
<afflux> well, if I'm the upstream and I'm going to package my package for ubuntu, I'll need to have non-native upstream sources in the orig.tar.gz and my debian packaging seperated to them?
<ScottK> afflux: That's the best way to do it.
<ScottK> afflux: That's what I do where I'm also upstream.
<afflux> ScottK: hm, okay.
<afflux> ScottK, azeem: thanks for clarifying
<azeem> afflux: right, there's no need to include the debian/ directory in the upstream tarballs
<azeem> afflux: if you must, I suggest to call it otherwise, and advise your users to rename it to debian
<afflux> azeem: I guess that is quite useless when packaging for ubuntu ;)
<azeem> what is "that"?
<afflux> azeem: the renaming solution
<azeem> why?
<azeem> I'm saying if you *must* ship the debian/ directory in your upstream tarball for some reason (you really shouldn't), it's still better to ship it as "debian-upstream" or something
<azeem> not "debian"
<ScottK> azeem: I don't think that helps.
<azeem> why not?
<ScottK> That just doubles the size of the diff.gz.
<azeem> the Debian packaging would just ignore debian-upstream
<afflux> azeem: ah, didn't get the "must". But since that's not the case, i'll just split it.
<ScottK> azeem: You'd end up having to repack the tarball to remove it.
<azeem> remove what?
<ScottK> azeem: The not-a-debian dir.
<ScottK> You can't patch a file out completely.
<azeem> yeah, but you could just ignore it as well
<ScottK> azeem: That would be wrong.
<azeem> it's more of a PITA if it's actually called "debian"
<azeem> because then, you really cannot patch out files
<azeem> and you have to repack
<pochu> ScottK: why would it be wrong to ignore a 'debian-upstream/' dir in orig.tar.gz ?
<pochu> we repack to rename debian/ to debian-upstream/ when upstream package contains a debian/ dir, so I can't see why debian-upstream/ is bad for upstream.
<ScottK> Personally, I think it'd be wrong to ship a directory of stuff that is like debian packaging, but not what's used.
<ScottK> pochu: Where is renaming debian-upstream documented?
<azeem> ScottK: I assume the "debian-upstream" is to be used by the users of the upstream package who desperately want and need to build .debs
<azeem> ScottK: though I agree that this shouldn't be needed
<azeem> but some upsreams seem to be very firm with this opinion
<pochu> Not documented, but it's done in wxwidgets.
<ScottK> pochu: Doesn't make it right.
<ScottK> azeem: What I do where I'm upstream is keep the Debian packaging in the VCS, but exclude it when I roll the tarball for a release.
<pochu> I agree it's better for upstream not to have a debian dir in the source tree at all, but if they are going to have one, better not to call it debian/ ...
<azeem> ScottK: sure, that's the right solution
<ScottK> Then I point to the VCS if someone really wants it.
<pochu> That makes sense.
<pochu> Or have it one dir above in the VCS.
<afflux> another question: Where I'm upstream, I have now two VCS branches: one called debian, containing *only* the debian packaging that is supposed to be distributed with ubuntu, and one called trunk, containing *only* my upstream sources. Now, should I point XS-Vcs-* to the debian or to the trunk branch? And should the debian branch contain the upstream sources too (so it's packaging + sources, not only packaging)?
<afflux> (checking for example cryptsetup looks like "debian" should contain packaging + sources, with Vcs-Bzr linking to "debian")
<azeem> for the latter, there's arguments towards both ways
<azeem> so it depends on your personal preference I guess
<azeem> (though maybe there is some Ubuntu policy I don't know of)
<ScottK> There's no specific policy, but mostly the spot where the debian dir can be found is referenced.
<pochu> afflux: Vcs-* should point to the "official" debian/ dir, not upstream's
<ScottK> pochu: For afflux since he's doing both, I think it's a distinction without difference.
<StevenHarperUK> in my debian/app.install I want to replace multiple lines like this > locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/easycrypt.mo usr/share/easycrypt/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES   with 1 line like this > locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/easycrypt.mo usr/share/easycrypt/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES    is it possible?
<pochu> ScottK: if it's for Debian I'd say it's ok, but if it's for Ubuntu, as it's team maintained, then having it in his project doesn't look like the best place?
<afflux> pochu, right. I'll drop the debian branch ;)
<pochu> (I'm not sure how bzr permissions work in launchpad for projects and teams though)
<ScottK> pochu: I disagree.  The version in the repo is the real canonical source, but the VCS reference is fine.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: do you know ? ^^ see last post
<cprov> ScottK: hey, what about this page https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/+publishinghistory
<ScottK> cprov: looking
<ScottK> cprov: The only thing that I think that lacks is if the version column has links to the appropriate page for that version.
<ScottK> cprov: i.e.2.3.2.dfsg-1ubuntu1 links to https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/dkim-milter/2.3.2.dfsg-1ubuntu1 as it is below.
<ScottK> persia and LaserJock: What do you think ^^^
<cprov> ScottK: it's in the corresponding 'detailed' section, but I can easily add the link in the table too.
<ScottK> cprov: I noticed that, but that's usually where I would go off that page and so it's very good to have it one click away and not two.
<cprov> ScottK: the point is, maybe you prefer the hidden box below the row as we do in PPA page.
<ScottK> cprov: Do you have an example?
<cprov> ScottK: not yet, but check the navigation in any PPA page. The publishing details would be presented as we present the archive files for each published source in the PPA page.
<ScottK> cprov: OK.  Give me a minute to look around for one.
<cprov> ScottK: by clicking in a arrow you could display/hide the 'publishing details' for each record/row
<LaserJock> ScottK: gotta read backlog
<ScottK> cprov: No.  I prefer the link off of the table directly.  Open the arrow and then click on where I want to go is still two clicks.
<cprov> ScottK: wait, consider the version-link done. What I asked is if you prefer the anchor to the 'detailed' section in the page (current solution) or the hidden-box mechanism used in PPA page.
<cprov> ScottK: the hidden boxex seems to be more appropriate, otherwise I have to add a link 'back to summary' on the end of each detailed section.
<LaserJock> cprov: hmm, shouldn't those Target links maybe go to /ubuntu/<release>/+source/<package> instead of just /ubuntu/<release> ?
<cprov> LaserJock: could be, like 'foobar in gutsy' and not only "gutsy", fine
<LaserJock> cprov: one of the hardest things for me to find are translations
<LaserJock> and I need to get to the /ubuntu/<release>/+source/<package> page
<LaserJock> it's not really very interesting to just link to the release itself, IMO, from a source package page
<cprov> LaserJock: right, I see you point.
<LaserJock> other than that I quite like that page
<ScottK> cprov: I see.
<ScottK> cprov: I can see advantages to the way you are proposing.
<ScottK> cprov: I'd ask the archive admin people that asked for the additional information as I expect it'd be more important to them.
<LaserJock> cprov: you sure we can't have that first table on the main source package page? :-)
<ScottK> LaserJock: I argued that and lost with sabdfl, so I suspect not.
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> cprov: oh, and with the release links, can we do the same for the main source page?
<cprov> LaserJock: give me a example
<LaserJock> it's kinda annoying to have to dig down into the version history to find a link to the /ubuntu/<release>/+source/<package> page
<LaserJock> in the "Published versions and upstream associations" table you list the release, but there's no links
<LaserJock> basically, no matter what else is on the main source page, I want to see links to specific versions and links to the release source page
<cprov> LaserJock: check the +publishinghistory page in dogfood again, links added
<LaserJock> cprov: great!
<cprov> LaserJock: now the question remains, anchors back and forth for detailed sections or hidden-boxes below the rows (as PPA page).
<Ubulette> hi
<Ubulette> persia, are you there ?
<LaserJock> cprov: k, let me pull up a PPA page
<ScottK> LaserJock: https://dogfood.launchpad.net/~cprov/+archive
<LaserJock> cprov: this is for the +publishinghistory?
<cprov> LaserJock: yes, I have the impression that if we use hidden-boxes we could easily compare multiple records in the table instead of clicking-around thing
<LaserJock> cprov: so is the anchors what you have now?
<cprov> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> cprov: and are you going to put in any more information?
<LaserJock> from what I see know I would think that the hidden-boxes would be better
<cprov> LaserJock: not really, I think we are done with the publishing-system redesign, removal information is already complete now
<LaserJock> much of the information in the complete history is already in the summary
<LaserJock> so just being able to drop down the box that you need for the additional details seems easier to me
<cprov> LaserJock: yup, we can cut some lines from the detailed section.
<cprov> LaserJock: exactly.
<cprov> ScottK: what do you think ?
<LaserJock> and I think it would, as you say, be easier to compare different version details, especially if they are far apart
<ScottK> cprov: I think the drop down is better, but as I said earlier I'd suggest asking the archive admins that asked for the removal information as that's the major piece of data that isn't displayed in the table to some degree.
<LaserJock> yeah, I agree
<LaserJock> I think the archive admins would be the main users of that data
<nxvl_work> i'm trying to dpatch a package, but i'm always getting:
<LaserJock> most devs will just look at the summary I think
<nxvl_work> dpatch  deapply-all
<nxvl_work> 01_Makefile not applied to ./ .
<nxvl_work> on build
<cprov> ScottK: right, i will cook another prototype and come back in a bit. Thank you guys !
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: did you add it to debian/patches/01list ?
<nxvl_work> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: pastebin your rules?
<nxvl_work> http://pastebin.com/m7b7c79a
<nxvl_work> that is what i don't understand well
<nxvl_work> and i haven't find any clear documentation about
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: I don't see any dep on a patch rule
<nxvl_work> !?
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: and you're not actually building anything
<nxvl_work> mmm, i really don't understand well the debian/rules
<LaserJock> you're doing a make install
<LaserJock> but no make
<nxvl_work> i think that's why my mentor make me start with FTBFS
<LaserJock> :-)
<nxvl_work> oh ok
<nxvl_work> and a make, is done with dh_testdirs?
<LaserJock> ok, gimme a sec and I'll give you a bit cleaner debian/rules
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> it's done with ... make or $(MAKE)
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: this is a new package right, you're doing it from the beginning?
<nxvl_work> nop
<nxvl_work> i'm fixing a FTBFS
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> ok
<geser> persia: I've a very first version of the list with packages in depwait ready: http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/out.html
<nxvl_work> but i think it have been uploaded not the right way
<LaserJock> so can you paste the original debian/rules?
<geser> persia: it's not running on the complete data set yet and the colouring needs improvement
<nxvl_work> is the very first version on ubuntu mirrors
<nxvl_work> let me look for them
<nxvl_work> LaserJock: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/cereal/0.15-1
<nxvl_work> LaserJock: this is the package
<nxvl_work> i'm downloading it again
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: you do need to keep a clean version of the current package around :-)
<LaserJock> when you go to do a debdiff to get it sponsored you'll want it
<LaserJock> PriceChild: ping
<nxvl_work> http://pastebin.com/m4299a76
<nxvl_work> i will keep that in mind
<nxvl_work> :D
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: ok, so that's quite clean
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: so do you know why it is FTBFS
<LaserJock> ?
<nxvl_work> LaserJock: it shows me a message (from the makefile) with a bashism
<LaserJock> ah, ok
<proppy> hi
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: well, to be honest wth you, I don't think I would have used dpatch for this
<nxvl_work> why?=
<nxvl_work> isn't it the best practice?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you're only making, I'm guessing, a small change to the makefile
<LaserJock> and there is no existing patch system
<nxvl_work> yep
<nxvl_work> you are right
<LaserJock> in this case it's maybe just easier to not create a new patch system for this small thing
<nxvl_work> mmm maybe, but if make it so norsetto will be mad
<nxvl_work> :D
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: norsetto can talk to me about it ;-)
<nxvl_work> ok, then i will
<LaserJock> in general dpatch is a good way to go
<norsetto> mmm?
<nxvl_work> BUT
<LaserJock> especially if upstream is already using it
<nxvl_work> i prefer to use dpatch, so i can learn about it also
<LaserJock> the BUT here is that upstream is not using a patch system so you're creating a much larger difference between Ubuntu and Debian than you need to
<nxvl_work> heh
<LaserJock> ideally the change you are making now should go away
<norsetto> laserjock, nxvl_work: what are you two concocting? World revolution again?
<LaserJock> because the bashism should be reported to Debian and fixed
<nxvl_work> norsetto: nop, just patching a FTBFS
<LaserJock> and once that's done we could be able to drop the Ubuntu changes and sync again
<nxvl_work> mm
<nxvl_work> you are right
<nxvl_work> i will contact the DD
<LaserJock> so, the idea is you can fix it for now in Ubuntu, and report it to Debian
<nxvl_work> (this is my 5th FTBFS resolved without a line of code)
<cprov> LaserJock: ScottK:  there we go, https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/+publishinghistory & https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/dkim-filter
<norsetto> laserjock: what should we talk about?
<LaserJock> norsetto: nxvl_work was fixing a bashim causing a FTBFS. He was going to add in dpatch to the packaging to do it
<LaserJock> norsetto: I think that's a lot of delta for a minor change in a single file
<norsetto> laserjock: yes, on the other side sloppy habits are sloppy habits (even if it is the last cigarette).
<LaserJock> cprov: I like that
<nxvl_work> norsetto: and i was saying that if i don't use dpatch you will be mad
<ScottK> cprov: I like that, but I'll say again I'd run it by pitti at the very least.
<ScottK> cprov: One minor point I'm not sure about ...
<LaserJock> norsetto: hmm?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: oh right, hyper mad :-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: why is that a sloppy habit?
<ScottK> cprov: The table has newest at the top, so it runs newest to oldest (this is good), but the status when you open the details is oldest to newest.  It's a bit jarring.
<ScottK> cprov: I'd put that most recent at the top too.
<norsetto> laserjock: do you know the meaning of maintenability and traceability?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: so will be debating about using dpatch or not, and he has a good point, which is that it is a bug that should be fix in debian
<LaserJock> norsetto: yes, and do you know the meaning of bloat? ;-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: the package is not using a patch system, adding one for just a one-liner in a single file is just overkill
<norsetto> nxvl_work: twell, all packaging bugs should be fixed in debian
<cprov> ScottK: good point, I can fix that, thanks
<cprov> LaserJock: thanks
<norsetto> LaserJock: thats not the point, the point is doing a sloppy thing because its easier
<LaserJock> no it's not
<joejaxx> LaserJock: hello :D
<LaserJock> it's the *correct* thing to do IMO
<LaserJock> joejaxx: hi
<LaserJock> norsetto: not using a patch system is not sloppy
 * nxvl_work has the idea he has read this conversation before
<norsetto> LaserJock: oh right, so, Iá¸¿ wrong and you are right type of argument
<LaserJock> norsetto: exactly ;-)
<joejaxx> lol
<norsetto> LaserJock: well, let me tell you that multi-million dollar projects are all wrong
<joejaxx> norsetto: they can be ;)
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is that I don't think this should add a patch system, not because I'm lazy or sloppy, but because it is uneccesary
<norsetto> LaserJock: and when they did as you suggest, take the easy way because is such a small change, than catastrophe arrived
 * nxvl_work uses dpatch and stop reading the discussion
<LaserJock> there's several reasons why I'm against adding a patch system in this instance:
<nxvl_work> norsetto: is the 2nd time i make you fall into this conversation :D
<LaserJock> 1) it's added delta for us to carry
<LaserJock> 2) this change *should* go away, and is therefore temporary
<LaserJock> 3) the Debian maintainer is more likely to take the diff as it's not telling him how to run his patches
<norsetto> nxvl_work: well, you can't change the world but some battles are worth fighting :-)
<LaserJock> so I think doing dpatch for this would be overkill, that's my opinion
<norsetto> laserjock: so, is there a patching system already?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> there is nothing patched yet in that package
<ScottK> At the very least just send the patch for the bug to Debian BTS.  Don't tell the maintainer how to suck eggs too.
<norsetto> LaserJock: well, so why should the DD complain if we do it in Ubuntu?
<norsetto> LaserJock: send him the fix and fix it in Ubuntu the way we want
<LaserJock> norsetto: because if I was the DD I wouldn't want to add dpatch as I would think it would be overkill ;-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: right, we could do that
<LaserJock> but that's added work for us
<norsetto> LaserJock: who is asking teh DD to add dpatch?
<LaserJock> why make it *more* difficult than it needs to be
<norsetto> LaserJock: again, taking the easy way out
<LaserJock> norsetto: because our diff will show up in PTS, and he'll go "what the heck are they doing to my package?" :-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: *no*
<LaserJock> it's not the easy way out
<norsetto> LaserJock: oh my god, they touched my package!
<norsetto> ahahah
<nxvl_work> norsetto: well, i think we always need to report the DD about the problem, to check if they have it also
<LaserJock> it's *not* doing uncessary work
<ScottK> LaserJock: In Debian you'd have to (to not be wrong) use a patching system.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> a patch system is not required
<ScottK> nxvl_work: I'd say don't report it unless you know they have the problem too.
 * ScottK tries to decide if he cares enough to look it up.
<broonie> norsetto: Speaking as someone who periodically reviews the Ubuntu changes in my packages I do find it helpful if the changes carried are minimised.
<nxvl_work> ScottK: isn't a good think to email de DM saying "i have had this problem, did you?"
<cprov> ScottK: the ordering issue you pointed is fixed. Let me run this over archive-admins.
<norsetto> broonie: I sure appreciate that broonie, but some DD really needs to be prodded and even then
<broonie> nxvl_work: I'd say so (at least so they know what the change is).
<nxvl_work> ScottK: you don't care enough, believe me
<ScottK> nxvl_work: I would say no.  I'd research if first and see if it affected Debian or was something Ubuntu unique.  As a maintainer in Debian, downstream's unique problems are theirs, not mine.
<nxvl_work> broonie: that's what i mean
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab
<ScottK> nxvl_work: I was pretty sure that was the case.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Your line there was ugh.
<LaserJock> norsetto: but what is wrong with not using a patch system in this case? Don't we want to minimize delta and work for ourselves?
<broonie> norsetto: Oh, lots of people would never look at the Ubuntu packages - I do so for the same reason I also peer at the Fedora, SuSE, Gentoo and so on from time to time.
<nxvl_work> ScottK: but there are some OBVIOUSLY thinks like the one we are talking about
<ScottK> TheMuso: Please stay on the scropt.
<bmk789> what java package is the new azureus fixed with?  because im still getting the same error as before
<norsetto> LaserJock: not using a patch system is always wrong, not just in this case
<slangasek> ScottK: even if the changes aren't relevant to Debian, if they can be merged into the Debian package without negatively impacting the Debian experience I'm interested in that to help free up people's time to work on improving code instead of constantly re-merging
<LaserJock> norsetto: I would have to say that that is just categorically wrong
<norsetto> LaserJock: yes, I'm wrong and you are right again
<LaserJock> norsetto: there are plenty of times when not using a patch system is appropriate
<ScottK> slangasek: I think that makes you substantially more open minded then most Debian maintainers.
<norsetto> LaserJock: spare the effort of spending 5 minutes
 * nxvl_work *HUGS* norsetto to calm him :D
 * ScottK is intensely sick of reading about Baltix problems that don't affect Ubuntu at all.
 * norsetto hugs nxvl and laserjock too
<LaserJock> norsetto: nxvl_work has been banging his head against dpatch for a while when he could have had this FTBFS fixed an uploaded
<huats> asac: Hey... when you told me to add a comment about my network-manager experience... You mentioned a bug number. Do you recall which one it was ?
<norsetto> nxvl_work:  I'm not angry at all, we are having a very interesting discussion I think
<norsetto> LaserJock: yes, thats good!
<nxvl_work> LaserJock: but a point for norsetto is that this is a good opportunity for me to learn dpatch also
<LaserJock> yeah, but it's not
<asac> huats: let me look ... did it help?
<slangasek> ScottK: well, doing so has also moved up my priority list now that I'm in a position to be affected by it on both sides ;)
<huats> asac: YES
<LaserJock> there are many good oppritunities to learn daptch
<nxvl_work> huats: once again, you came when i was looking for you :D
<huats> asac: it works great...
<norsetto> nxvl_work: I would even as far as tell you, next time try out quilt
<LaserJock> this one just seems very uncessisary
<huats> nxvl_work: I am here
<nxvl_work> huats: PM
<nxvl_work> norsetto: is quilt easier?
<asac> huats: its bug 145683
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145683 in network-manager "Network manager crash with WPA" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145683
<norsetto> nxvl_work: not to learn, but its much more powerful to use than dpatch
<joejaxx> oh fun with quilt
<joejaxx> i had to learn that for openmosix
<huats> asac: ok, so I was looking at the right one ....
<huats> asac: great works really...
 * nxvl_work reads quilt
<asac> huats: yes ... its 83623 as well ... but the one above tracks them all
<zul> a patch system is not always necessay and not always used
<norsetto> asac: have you had the chance to look at my email?
<asac> norsetto: about?
<persia> norsetto: In all your effort to add patch systems, please make absolutely 100% sure that there is never a package admitted to the archive that mixes raw patches in the diff.gz with a patch system.
<norsetto> persia: yes sir. will do sir.
<norsetto> persia: btw, any news on lash? I tested and seems good but I'd really appreciate your opinion on that
<persia> norsetto: Thank you.  While I don't agree entirely that everything needs a patch system, I do really appreciate your efforts to teach people to use them.
<persia> norsetto: I ran into an annoying issue with jack, and haven't tracked that down yet.  This annoys me, as there are currently lash patches available for 3 different packages that I want to integrate with your package :)
<norsetto> persia: ok, I'm waiting for your ok to upload in any case
<nxvl_work> quilt is fun
<nxvl_work> :D
<nxvl_work> but one cuestion, do i need to add anything to debian/rules?
<persia> norsetto: Thanks for your patience :)
<nxvl_work> i don't find anything about it
<norsetto> nxvl_work: (I also find it fun but don't tell anyone ....)
<LaserJock> norsetto: I agree with persia, btw. Patch systems are in the majority of the cases a good thing, and it's important to teach people to use them. Thanks for helping people with that.
<persia> nxvl_work: Yes.  I think there is a quilt.mk floating about, but I don't remember where.
 * nxvl_work smells comunitary HUG???
<nxvl_work> persia: thnx
<nxvl_work> checking
<norsetto> nxvl_work: include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make
 * LaserJock hugs #ubuntu-motu
<nxvl_work> norsetto: and nothing else?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, the usual targets
<norsetto> nxvl_work: unpatch for clean and patch-stamp for the appropriate configure/build
<nxvl_work> norsetto: the "usual targets" are the ones i'm having trouble with, is it documentation about it around?
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: read man dpatch.make for instace
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, what problem are you having?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: i don't know well how to manipulate debian/rules
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, you know more or less what a makefile is?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: and packaging guide is a little superficial
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: the example in dpatch.make is pretty good
<nxvl_work> yes, i know, what it makes, and what it works, but i don't feel i can write one
<norsetto> nxvl_work: well, very very superficially speaking, a makefile is a series of targets and pre-requisites; pre-requisite must be satisfied to achieve the given target
<norsetto> nxvl_work: are you with me so far?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: either I killed you with my pathetic makefile 101 or you are busy reading the dpatch.make example :-)
<nxvl_work> i'm back
<nxvl_work> norsetto: yes, that i already know :D
<persia> geser: That looks great.  Thanks.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, so lets skip the 101, why are you having a problem finding the right target for your stamp requisite?
<nxvl_work> yup
<norsetto> nxvl_work: what targets you have in your rules? and what are you patching?
<nxvl_work> cereal
<persia> geser: One wishlist request would be to have the version number link to the versioned LP page (e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/usermode/1.81-3.1), while keeping the package name linking to the main LP page.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: I mean, what file? Its an autoconf file, a configure, a make, a source?
<nxvl_work> http://pastebin.com/m4299a76
<nxvl_work> this is the clean rules
<geser> persia: I'm currently running it for: failed to build, chrootwait, depwait, failed to upload
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, looks liek a rules for something simple, like docs or scripts
<nxvl_work> yep
<persia> geser: Does it require a separate loop for each, or does it collect all that in a single run?  Also, how long does it take?  (I'm assuming it's LP-bound)
<norsetto> nxvl_work: and what is it that you are patching?
<nxvl_work> The Makefile
<geser> persia: the script and the template are at http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, check in which target is the makefile used
<geser> persia: 13 min for a run
<nxvl_work> norsetto: install i think
<norsetto> nxvl_work: right, so you have to patch before install
<norsetto> nxvl_work: in other words, you have to make patching a pre-requisite of the install target
<nxvl_work> and that's what i don't know, what runs first
<persia> geser: I'm tempted to wait for dktrkranz to discuss coordination, but based on quick oversight, I think I'd prefer that to be the "official" build status report, as it's a bit more informative.
<nxvl_work> it runs on the order it's readed or it has a order
<geser> persia: I've just uploaded the output from the last run
<norsetto> nxvl_work: thats what you decide, if patching is a pre-requisite for the install target, than the patchin target is run before the install one
<persia> WIth lots more colors!
<norsetto> nxvl_work: the order they are written is totally not influencing, what is important is target: requisite
<geser> persia: the colouring needs some improvement
<persia> geser: Actually, would you mind differentiating the FTBFS and chroot failure colours a little more?  I can't see the difference easily when they aren't close to each other.
<nxvl_work> http://pastebin.com/d1e32f47c
<nxvl_work> norsetto: so it can look like this?
<persia> Is anyone here good with color palettes?
<geser> persia: sure, if you can tell me some good colors
<norsetto> nxvl_work: the unpatch in clean is ok, the include is ok, but why you add make in build?
<persia> geser: That's exactly what I'm hoping to elicit.  I'm lousy with colors, but getting four non-green colors that look OK on a blue/white background and allow black overprinting would be ideal.
<cyberix> I'm looking for first sponsor for my package pq. I have posted the package to REVU, fixed all problems that have been raised, asked TB to confirm Multiverse inclusion and received approvals for inclusion from Shuttleworth, Zimmerman and Troup. I've also contacted the upstream developer and he said he will subscribe for pq bugs in Launchpad once it gets included in Ubuntu. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<nxvl_work> norsetto: for the file to be patched?
<persia> cyberix: That's a very well-formed and informative advertisement.  Thanks.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: what that would do, it would just call the makefile with no arguments
<norsetto> nxvl_work: you want to patch, not call make
<nxvl_work> and that wont work
<nxvl_work> mm
<cyberix> (...and I'm starting to sound like "The Twelve Days of Christmas")
<norsetto> nxvl_work: what is the target to patch? You can also look in /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make if you don't remember
<persia> LaserJock: re: "patch" tag: I was thinking of the tag as a sort of "confirmed & ready for review", whereas the other was a flag to encourage looking, but I'm not convinced enough of that to argue for it.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: do you see the patch: target in there?
<nxvl_work> it works
<nxvl_work> :D
<nxvl_work> norsetto: thnx
<nxvl_work> :D
<LaserJock> persia: ok, I'm currently chatting with kiko about it
<persia> LaserJock: Excellent.  Thanks.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: :-D
 * Fujitsu celebrates https://dogfood.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkim-milter/+publishinghistory
<nxvl_work> norsetto: one more thing, i read that i need to link patches to debian/patches, but on the make file it points to debian/patches, can i remove the patches link?
<persia> LaserJock: Also, if there's a way to mark a non-attachment comment a patch, I'd find that handy.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: I must admit I never used the link to debian/patches
<nxvl_work> removing and testing
<nxvl_work> it works
<nxvl_work> the wiki is wrong
 * nxvl_work fixes
<persia> DktrKranz: geser was hacking the FTBFS script, and developed http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/out.html.  What do you think?
<DktrKranz> GREAT!
<geser> persia: I've tried to improve the colour a little bit. Are they better now?
<Fujitsu> Oooh, colourful.
<Fujitsu> Soyuz is rather borked in some places. All binaries for some packages failed to upload...
<nxvl_work> i find really nice that the packaging guide is on the wiki, so we can correct it on any moment
<nxvl_work> :D
<persia> geser: I'm a little colour-blind, and can't tell the difference between the first two.  Also, I'm not sure "green" is ever appropriate.
<LaserJock> persia: can you tell me anything about why the patch flag on has a 50% hit rate?
<DktrKranz> Yes, maybe base colour should be of higher contrast, but I'm not good in graphics
<Fujitsu> persia: green means that it's SEP, I guess.
<geser> persia: http://de.selfhtml.org/diverses/anzeige/farbnamen_netscape.htm and http://de.selfhtml.org/diverses/anzeige/farbpalette_216.htm have some colours, pick four
<persia> LaserJock: Lots of random things get labeled "patch" by commenters.  This can be unlabeled in the interface (no idea of the ACL).  Just fixing this covers the attachment case, but doesn't cover the patch-in-comment case (e.g. 2-line change)
<Fujitsu> geser: Can you please mark builds that are pending (ie. needs-build) if there are other FTBFSes?
<Fujitsu> As at the moment, hppa looks to be very successful.
<geser> Fujitsu: will try
<LaserJock> persia: are you counting debdiffs as a patch?
<LaserJock> persia: and is it possible to classify what most often get's misslabeled a patch
<geser> Fujitsu: have you a suggestion for the colour for it?
<persia> LaserJock: Sometimes: I only think debdiffs are interesting if the debdiff was rejected by the sponsors and not resubmitted for a couple months, but the problem was with the wrapping, and not with the patch.
<Ubulette> persia, hi. thanks for your answer. I'll work on that asap
<LaserJock> for sure you could probably make it so .pngs are not allowed as patches for instance
<LaserJock> ;-)
<Fujitsu> geser: Perhaps a different gray, as we don't really have a status. I'm not sure.
<persia> LaserJock: Generally self-uploaded crash reports, once a screenshot, and several times various logs.  I'm not sure everyone understands "patch"
<LaserJock> yep
<Ubulette> persia, do you prefer that form ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/2265/
<persia> geser:  I can't find 4 easily distinguishable colors in the 216 palette, but maybe  #FFFF66, #FF7F50, #FFD700, #FFDAB9 (and yes, it might be ugly)
<Ubulette> oops, obviously with get and new swapped
<geser> persia: updated, there is no much difference between #1 and #3
<persia> Ubulette: That's much nicer looking in my opinion, but I think the sense of get-orig-source and new-orig-source is swapped (i.e. it looks to me like new-orig-source is grabbing the current source, and get-orig-source is grabbing new source)
<Ubulette> persia, yep, see 2 lines above ;)
<persia> Ubulette: Right :)
<persia> geser: Hmm.  Looks different here, but maybe s/#FFFF66/#FFFF00/ to make it even more distinct?
<persia> Does anyone else have any color suggestions, or do they find those colours bad?
 * Fujitsu thinks the failed uploads should be blinking and say `complain to cprov', but that's probably not a good idea.
<DktrKranz> :)
<DktrKranz> what about having "Package failed to build" red?
<cprov> Fujitsu: I guess that's a superior message to me "stop now and go look for some food" :)
<DktrKranz> it should be distinct from MANUALDEPWAIT
<norsetto> cprov: stop now and go look for some food
<Fujitsu> cprov: Heh.
<StevenHarperUK> hi, in my debain/app.install file I want to replace lots of entries that look like this - locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/easycrypt.mo usr/share/easycrypt/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES - with one that looks like this - locale/*/LC_MESSAGES/easycrypt.mo usr/share/easycrypt/locale/*/LC_MESSAGES - is that possible - or is there something like it - I dont want to have to add a new line for each language.
<persia> Isn't there some translations helper tool that does that properly?
<norsetto> persia: he is not generating on the fly, the *.mo are in the source package together with *.po and the rest
<StevenHarperUK> I can do on the fly generation, but it seems like something else to go wrong
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Worst case, you could collect the names of usr/share/easycrypt/locale/* into a list in make, and then create a rule on the entries.
<slangasek> StevenHarperUK: can't you list entire subdirectory trees in app.install, or do you really have different filenames that go to different packages?
<Fujitsu> Can't dh_install do wildcards?
<slangasek> i.e., do locale/ usr/share/easycrypt/locale
<StevenHarperUK> It can do wildcards but not in the middle
<persia> StevenHarperUK: You really want to do on-the-fly generation, or you'll kick yourself when you forget the generation step once.
<slangasek> Fujitsu: yes, but you can't do backreferences
<StevenHarperUK> and it doesnt seem to do recurive directories
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Bah.
<persia> slangasek: Won't that toss in the .po files & the like?
<slangasek> persia: if present, yes, that's why I asked :)
<StevenHarperUK> slagasek: a wildcard like locale/* just does that level
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I'd create a locale/$(LANG)/LC_MESSAGES/easycrypt.mo: rule in MAKE, with $(LANG) being a list (although I may not remember the syntax perfectly)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I dont have a Make
<slangasek> persia: the problem isn't creating them, though, it's installing them to the package?
<persia> StevenHarperUK: debian/rules is a makefile
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: It does look like LP will be an OpenID provider from 1.1.12, not so much a consumer.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: ah I half knew that
<persia> slangasek: right.  As I said, my syntax is rough: likely needs extra bits to put it in the right place.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: so I need a sample make file with that in
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: interesting
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that makes it much less interesting sadly
<Fujitsu> Ooh, ssov2-open-op looks good. We can finally authenticate against LP externally!
<Fujitsu> Although that's 4 releases away.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Static-Usage describes the trick for one rule with lots of different targets
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: which means at least 8, right? they gotta push a few ;-)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, I've got some stuff that has been pushed back from 1.1.6 or so, and was just deferred again to 1.1.[12], I forget which.
 * jdong installs new fglrx foolishly hoping it might improve performance/quirkiness
<Ademan> hey is there anything like xxgamma http://xxgamma.berlios.de/   in the repositories? or something covering that functionality?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: now you can simply send the Makefile.diff patch to the DD. Please link the bug from the BTS to LP.
<nxvl_work> why is BTS so unfriendly?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: why?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: i think LP has (i don't know the work in english)
<ScottK> nxvl_work: I have the same question about Launchpad.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: in spanish?
<nxvl_work> ScottK: LP is friendlier than LP
<nxvl_work> norsetto: mal acostrumbrado
<ScottK> No.  I like BTS better as a bug tracker in many ways than LP.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: well, thats the bts I guess :-)
<nxvl_work> ScottK: it's a matter of work most with one
<ScottK> For me it's more a matter of BTS works the same way it did 6 months ago so I'm not constantly re-figuring out how to use it.
<nxvl_work> (at this time of the day my brain doesn't want to work i have forgot all my english, damn Kelly Boundy)
<nxvl_work> ScottK: i like the way it hangs with e-mail, but to search a bug using the web interface is what i dislike
<ScottK> Along those lines (LP is GUI and BTS is command line here): http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=10_reasons_why_the_command_line_is_more_&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
<LaserJock> I just had bad experiences with BTS to start with
 * LaserJock is scarred for life
<LaserJock> I tried using reportbug
<LaserJock> which is generally a nice app, except I use webmail
<geser> DktrKranz: how long does your ftbfs.py script usually run?
<LaserJock> so I ended up setting up some smtp app to send out the bug
<DktrKranz> geser, about 30 min
<LaserJock> and then it never responeded so I thought something was wrong and sent it again
<LaserJock> and ended up filing two bugs
<LaserJock> :-)
<nxvl_work> i have been scared by BTS before the time i try to became a DD
<LaserJock> I don't think bug trackers should make me feel as dumb as I am ;-)
<geser> DktrKranz: ok, then I didn't do something wrong, as mine takes about 20 minutes
<nxvl_work> (and then finally scared by the brainwash part of the NM process :P)
<DktrKranz> geser, Launchpad could be a huge bottleneck :)
<geser> DktrKranz: probably, or in mine case rmadison
 * slangasek slips a little something into nxvl_work's lemonade
<LaserJock> hehe
<geser> DktrKranz: my last version is at http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/ if you want to look
<nxvl_work> but, maybe i dislike BTS because i don't know how to use, maybe working with it makes me more comfortable with it and makes me love it
<LaserJock> nxvl_work: I agree
<DktrKranz> geser, looks really good.
<LaserJock> for me, it was much more difficult to get going with BTS, but once you figure it out it's really nice
<jdong> does anyone love the SourceForge BTS? :D
<LaserJock> arggggg
<LaserJock> SourceForges bug and mailing list handling are from the devil himself
<ScottK> jdong: Not me.
 * jdong peeks at the new mpeg4ip PPA build he uploaded, hoping that didn't infinite loop either
<jdong> OH CRAP
<alvinc> ?
<DktrKranz> geser, when you asked pitti about mass-rebuilds of FTBFS packages, he told you they won't be scheduled. Is there anything better we can do to file a list and pass it to a buildd-admin?
<jdong> alvinc: I got the build in infinite loop again
<jdong> isn't this a slight denial of service vulnerability with PPA's?
<alvinc> *chuckle*
<alvinc> h8 loops
<geser> DktrKranz: afaik no, but one could ask the build-admins if there is a better solution
<persia> DktrKranz: When you're happy with the code, could you push it to qa.ubuntuwire.com? (assuming geser doesn't mind)
<DktrKranz> We should really do so. When looking at FTBFS list, almost half of the failures should be solved with a give-back
<geser> persia: I don't mind but let me add a license text first
<ScottK> DktrKranz: If it's HPPA stuff you can ask Lamont.  He fixed one for me today.
<DktrKranz> ScottK, several ports. Mainly tex-*, gnustep and libglib1
<ScottK> OK.
<DktrKranz> which should be already OK (at least for i386, where I checked)
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: what tex-* ?
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, FTBFS due to an early texlive uninstallable package
<LaserJock> DktrKranz: which package, do you know?
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, let me check...
<DktrKranz> LaserJock, something like http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10179662/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.bibtex2html_1.87-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz and http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10250408/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.xsu_0.2.3-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<LaserJock> dang, I hate it when I lose my Firefox profile
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I know you want the latest version in Ubuntu, but would you mind batching fixes upstream, and pushing a new revision once every couple weeks (unless there's a showstopper bug)?  More frequent updates just use sponsor time, with not so much benefit to either users or your LP pages.
 * LaserJock kicks OS X
<persia> LaserJock: Stop using FireFox :)
<LaserJock> persia: hehe, like that's gonna happen
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  Are you that unhappy with the alternatives?  I've not lost a session once since I decided that Firefox wasn't capable.
 * persia tends to use epiphany & safari, depending on the window manager in use
<LaserJock> I am unhappy with the alternatives
<LaserJock> all browsers (and email apps for that matter) suck, Firefox sucks less
<jpatrick> I just use Konqueror
<LaserJock> epiphany has some strange things that I don't like
<LaserJock> safari is sort of ok
<geser> DktrKranz: the last version of my script (and the last output) is at http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/
 * ScottK uses Konqueror on the laptop and Firefox on the desktop.  No idea why.
<LaserJock> but I do like a few extentions like Greasemonkey that are somewhat hard to live without
<LaserJock> ScottK: weird.
<ScottK> Yeah.  That's me.
<DktrKranz> geser, is it ok for you to put it on qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?
<StevenHarperUK> perisa; are you asking me to do less releases?
<jpatrick> geser: could you please approve my mail to -council@?
<geser> DktrKranz: I've added Fujitsu wish to also list "needs building" but I'm not sure if it works (nothing is listed as "needs building" in the table)
<geser> DktrKranz: sure
<DktrKranz> geser, I'll give it a look, then
<geser> jpatrick: I could but I'd need to look how to do it as dholbach usually does it
<jpatrick> geser: ah, okay
<DktrKranz> geser, any requirements? bash scripts or similar?
<StevenHarperUK> persia: 0.2.1.6 has all the feature I have planned for easycrypt
<geser> DktrKranz: rmadison (devscipts) and python-genshi
<StevenHarperUK> persia: 0.2.1.16 i mean
<StevenHarperUK> persia: New releases will be less requent
<StevenHarperUK> persia: *frequent - I expect a few new languages in 1-2 weeks time
<persia> StevenHarperUK: OK.  You just seem to be of the "release early, release often" school, which I think is good, but from a distribution management point of view, it's not usually that all "release early, release often" upstream releases get packaged.
<geser> DktrKranz: and colouring could still be improved (and still be distinguishable for persia)
<persia> Now that the package is in, I'd recommend targeting your next package upload for around mid-december.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: As i am the Packager and upstream I tent to notify myself that it need packaging :P
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Sure, it's just not worth making all the buildds work so hard when users can't tell the difference :)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I am learning all this I didn't even know Python 6 weeks ago - I want to practice a bit
<persia> (as hardy has very few users today)
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Understood.  That's why I didn't say all this for the .15 release.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: I am a developer for a job - I have automated all the builds - its not too much effort , but I do understand
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Maybe I should try to package TrueCrypt next
<persia> StevenHarperUK: Excellent, and thanks again for packaging your software for Ubuntu.
<persia> Sure.  More packages aren't bad, especially if there's someone motivated to keep them relatively up-to-date and clean.
<geser> DktrKranz: I found an error in my script: in line 107 there is () missing after entry.empty (I've updated the script at my webspace)
<DktrKranz> geser, I'm pushing it right now
<Ubulette> persia, even i use dh_install like you propose, i still have to keep a lot of install as i rename a lot of files
<persia> Ubulette: Do all the files need to be renamed?  Is upstream truly braindead when it comes to nomenclature?  I'm willing to believe this, but just want to check (as we like to have the upstream docs match Ubuntu installations, if possible)
<geser> DktrKranz: thanks, I'm going to bed now, let me know if you find any bugs or have any issues with the script
<DktrKranz> Sure. Thanks for this, mine was dreadful :D
<Ubulette> persia, no, it's just that i'm picking up some icons from upstream to use for our desktop and mime files
<persia> Ubulette: Ah.  You'll need some rules then.  Hmm.  I'm a big fan of clean debian/rules, and don't know the best way.  You might ask someone else for their opinion as well.
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> anyone here uses launchpadbugs (Python module)?
<persia> RainCT: You might also try in #ubuntu-bugs: I think it's more popular for them (and the right people appear to be off holiday)
<persia> (of course, timezones may still mean little to no response :) )
<RainCT> persia: right, thanks
<RainCT> :)
<LaserJock> Ubulette: you're trying to install icons?
<Ubulette> LaserJock, well, no. it worked well before. now, i'm trying to achieve the very last change that persia proposed and i'm just destroying the thing
<StevenHarperUK> Hi - I want to package up Truecrypt - I haven't done someone else's source before, can anyone help me gest started?
<RainCT> good night
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: It's pretty much like what you have done already, just less talking to yourself.
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: Truecrypt have a build.sh and an install.sh, they also have a DEB so I can see where things should end up
<ScottK> In most cases you won't even need to talk to upstream either, usually just if there's a problem with package you want them to fix.
<jpatrick> my upstream's usually turn out to be quite nice
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: I know this is a basic question, but are the stages:   get debain/rules to build from source   ->  get rules to install compiled
<persia> StevenHarperUK: just as an example of a normal release often upstream request, see bug #165285.  (Of course, interdiff is much preferred :) Thank you.)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Usually I find getting copyright and all the other bits correct is more trouble than debian/rules.
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: The problem I have is that docs of truecrypt state that the build requires ALL kernel source, not just headers : that sounds bad to me
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: That sounds like not a beginner's project to me.
<slangasek> that sounds like a project that a non-beginner would reject as broken upstream ;)
<jdong> StevenHarperUK: yeah that sounds like a complicated package to deal with unless the kernel module portion is already a part of Ubuntu
<jdong> otherwise you're doing module-assistant territory work
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: Yeh I did guess that, I think the bits are already in Ubuntu
<StevenHarperUK> one of them is modprobe
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: If you want something new to work on, why don't you get your package into Debian?  Since (IIRC), it's a Python app, you can join the Debian Python Application Packaging Team and it's pretty easy to get sponsored.
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: I know its a fairly big job, but I have learned Python and debian packaging and po translations and the ubuntu process in the last 6 weeks to get my current project done
<ScottK> Sounds like working into Debian next is a good next step then.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottKk: the problem there is that I dont have a Debain test machine
 * slangasek waves a wand called debootstrap
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: You can make a Debian chroot and that's likely good enough.
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: is there a Quick overview of Submitting to Debian?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: I maintain ~ half a dozen packages in Debian also without a Debian test machine.
<LaserJock> ScottK: shhhh, are you supposed to say that with slangasek around? ;-)
<norsetto> g'night all
<jdong> lol
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: another problem Truecrypt don't make a Debain DEB
<slangasek> LaserJock: it's ok, I don't have a Debian test machine either, I run all my packages on simulations in my head ;P
<LaserJock> slangasek: haha
<LaserJock> I would wonder more if you had an Ubuntu test machine
<LaserJock> but I suspect Mark makes you have at least one
<slangasek> not Mark, that enforcement is delegated :)
<LaserJock> of course
<ScottK> So he left.  Urgh.
<ScottK> On the off chance StevenHarperUK returns while I'm out, would someone please point him at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-August/024161.html and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<badarts> what is the official repo for w32codecs and similar stuff?
<jdong> !medibuntu
<ubotu> medibuntu is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons - See http://www.medibuntu.org
<jdong> and it is not official, though "as close as it gets"
<jdong> report problems with medibuntu to their launchpad product, not against the Ubuntu distribution
<jdong> oh yeah this isn't a support channel
<Ubulette> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/2274/  better ? same ? worse ?
<badarts> thanks :)
<LaserJock> jdong: ;-)
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
<badarts> jdong: well, not even the universe is really official, but only "as close as it gets" ;)
<ScottK> badarts: Universe is official, but unsupported.
<jdong> what ScottK said.
<jdong> medibuntu is neither official nor supported
<ScottK> By Canonical that is.  The community supports it moderately well.
<jdong> though it is run by (mostly? all?) MOTU's
<Sp4rKy> mostly
<jdong> Well regardless of the badges on their maintainers, I've not seen a single thing in medibuntu that I wouldn't feel comfortable putting on my primary computer
<persia> LaserJock: Just thought of a counter-case: a .png file could be considered a patch for a "broken icon" issue.
<TheMuso> How does one force a package into a particular section, i.e universe for PPAs now?
<persia> Ubulette: I guess that's about as clean as it gets :(  Thanks for trying.
<LaserJock> persia: I can't help but think that that would be a corner case. It can still be an attachment, just not listed as a patch
<LaserJock> TheMuso: how do you mean?
<persia> LaserJock: Right, but it's an example why blocking on MIME type doesn't help.  The idea is to have a nice set of bugs that have been triaged to determine that they are good candidates for someone to do some testing and packaging.
<Ubulette> persia, i really tried to reduce install using dh_install and dirs but i gained only 3 lines and it made things difficult in the other *.install files
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: PPAs don't have components any more.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Oh.
<persia> Ubulette: I understand.  When it's not a help, it's not a help.  Thanks for trying :)
<TheMuso> LaserJock: ^^
<StevenK> Mainly because components for a PPA doesn't make sense
<LaserJock> persia: well, I'm filing bugs for getting an idication in the comments that an attachment is a patch, and also a link to "depatch" it
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I would personally like PPA components to be customisable, but all ogre against multiverse.
<TheMuso> StevenK: On one hand I agree, but on the other, I don't.
<Ubulette> persia, so, what's next now? I guess I need to push an update to REVU
<persia> LaserJock: We already have that.  It's currently abused (but can be fixed), and there's not currently any way to track textual patches that are not attachments.
<persia> Ubulette: Exactly.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Wha, huh? Either you agree or you disagree. :-)
<Ubulette> persia, on top of the last (uncommented) one ?
 * persia seeks extended commentary from TheMuso explaining the dichotomy
<LaserJock> persia: how do you mean we already have that?
<persia> Ubulette: Yep.  Same version, etc.
<Ubulette> ok
<persia> LaserJock: There's a searchable flag on attachments, and members of some ACL can set or remove the flag for any attachment to any bug.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I agree that it doesn't make sense, but I disagree in that if components were customizable, it would allow you to keep groups of packages together.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: That's my thinking too.
<LaserJock> persia: yeah, you can get at it eventually. I'm thinking quick-n-easy triage would help get the patch flag more usable
<Fujitsu> Since they removed the multiple PPAs per user feature.
<mok0> Is there a website with the popularity of Ubuntu packages?
<persia> LaserJock: Nah: the interface is pretty easy.  The problems are 1) that it is abused, so it's not inviting for Contributors to search those, and 2) it doesn't support non-attachment patches.
<LaserJock> popcon.ubuntu.com I think
<LaserJock> mok0: ^^
<mok0> duh
<LaserJock> persia: how is it being abused?
 * persia notes that popcon is voluntary, and therefore under-represents most users
<persia> LaserJock: being applied to non-patches
<LaserJock> persia: right, I'm just trying to think of ways we can make it better
<LaserJock> marking non-attachments as patches is no go
<LaserJock> but kiko said they could probably have a thing to conver a comment into an attachement
<LaserJock> *convert
<persia> Right.  More ideas is great.  Non-attachments as patches was a non-starter.  I was using a tag, but if you've another solution that isn't just "put a new interface to existing functions", I'd be happy to hear it.
<persia> converting the comment into an attachment doesn't help.  They tend to be 2 or 3 line diffs with commentary above or below.
<LaserJock> persia: well, my main concern is that we already have the patch flag, if it's broken or not working we need to get it fixed I think
<LaserJock> not that we can't use tags as well
<LaserJock> I was thinking if we can get the patch flag working better and then have a good-patch or similar tag to say the patch is verified/triaged
<LaserJock> then we have a good system for dealing with patche
<persia> I don't think it's broken, I just don't think it's a good target to point Contributors at when asking for patch review efforts.
<LaserJock> true
<LaserJock> but %50 is pretty low
<mok0> Hmm popcon doesn't seem to work properly :(
<persia> Also, my definition of "triaged" is "This is a real patch, and nobody hates it", rather than "This is a good patch"
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-27
<LaserJock> persia: well, something like that
<LaserJock> I just think that patch flag and patch tag are terribly confusing
<Fujitsu> mok0: What gives you that idea?
 * jdong first slaps superm1 for his use of HTML mail without an ASCII part :)
<persia> LaserJock: I can't argue with that, and that was essentially the point that was made to cause me to write the email :)
<LaserJock> patch-verified might work
<mok0> Fujitsu: If I click on Universe I get a bunch of junk displayed, no text
<superm1> jdong, i still don't know what the "proper" thing to send out is, HTML or ASCII in certain cases :)
<jdong> superm1: and what is the final decision on what exactly to do with the gtkpod/gtkpod-aac dichotomy?
<superm1> well there were no complaints against the idea
<jdong> superm1: I'm fine with HTML mail, I just prefer if a plaintext part was also attached to it (mailer settings)
<superm1> so i would say carry on?
<jdong> superm1: do you have any examples of packages that do a two-stage build like this so I can follow as an example?
<superm1> jdong, lets see.  i know i have come across some.
 * superm1 thinks
<jdong> superm1: as from a technical standpoint I don't know how to conditionally build-dep on packages... :-/
<Fujitsu> mok0: Your browser probably doesn't support gzip.
<slangasek> hypertext malignant lymphoma
 * Fujitsu agrees with slangasek.
<mok0> Fujitsu: It's an index.html file...
<slangasek> Fujitsu: are you sure? I could be an oncologist and lymphomas are my thing
<mok0> Fujitsu: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/universe/index.html
<Fujitsu> mok0: Works for me.
<jdong> mok0: renders for me too
<superm1> jdong, well oh yeah mplayer already does i think
<superm1> because it runs once to do mencoder only
<mok0> Huh? Weird
<superm1> and then once for mplayer itself
 * mok0 tries another browser
<Fujitsu> superm1: And then there's mplayer-nogui.
<superm1> ah that's probably what the two step build was mplayer-nogui and normal mplayer not mplayer and mencoder
<Fujitsu> It runs twice, once without a GUI, and copies the mencoder binary from one of them.
<jdong> superm1: right but mplayer itself is in a multiverse section right?
<superm1> yeah it is right now
<jdong> I mean, for this to work with gtkpod I need to build-dep on a multiverse package
<jdong> which I'm pretty sure will result in complaints ;-)
<superm1> ah the whole ogre build model thing?
<superm1> slangasek, well to build depend on something in say multiverse, does your source package need to be in multiverse too then?
<Fujitsu> superm1: Yes.
<superm1> well so that is a consequence that wasn't brought up.  these source packages would have to be moved
<LaserJock> you always gotta account for the ogre ;-)
<superm1> well then the question still remains, is this feasible
<jdong> hmm depends on the policy for a multiverse source package generating main/universe packages.
<jdong> it sounds a lot more flaky now than it did before.
<superm1> yeah.  well do you want to post this back to the ML since the others who discussed aren't present?
<superm1> ffmpeg and mplayer can still carry forward
<superm1> so as soon as i've got some time to do so, i'll handle those
<StevenK> ,
<StevenK> ~~
<StevenK> Um. Grah
<LaserJock> man, my first Hardy upload
<LaserJock> and it even built on all archs, how lovely
<StevenK> LaserJock: You're a bit late, aren't you?
<TheMuso> Ok, even more crazy/c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> wrong channel
 * StevenK takes a drink
<StevenK> :-P
<ajmitch> a bit early for that, isn't it?
 * ajmitch starts listing off LP bugs for StevenK 
<StevenK> Hah
 * LaserJock takes a loooong drink and looks heads of to his blog
<LaserJock> bah, s/looks//
<ajmitch> ponies!
<zul> hey
<LaserJock> dang, it's amazing how huge a source tree can get when building
<azeem> are you building gtk+?
<LaserJock> no, openbabel
<azeem> ah :)
<azeem> that one's pretty big as well
<LaserJock> goes from 48MB to 488MB
<azeem> I usually ^z the build process and frantically clean up other parts of the build partition to make room :)
<LaserJock> I don't know why a library is so huge
<azeem> LaserJock: because in ubuntu all the plugins are linked statically I thiknk
<azeem> think*
<LaserJock> this is just from source
<azeem> you could check for that
<azeem> hrm, no
<LaserJock> I'm building it in OS X
<azeem> Build needed 00:26:44, 414992k disk space
<azeem> well, it's C++...
<lifeless> debug symbol bloatage ftw
<LaserJock> right now openbabel takes much longer to build and is bigger than any of the apps that use it :-)
<lifeless> thats a good thing right ?
<LaserJock> I can't figure out what it does that needs so much
<LaserJock> azeem: isn't openbabel mostly file format conversion?
<LaserJock> granted it's converting between like 80 different formats, but still
<azeem> it does some other stuff as well
<azeem> 2.1.1 is equipped with force fields
<azeem> they might've blown up the build tree
<LaserJock> hmm, true
<azeem> Build needed 00:52:32, 208176k disk space
<azeem> that's for 2.0.2
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> tool twice as long though?
<azeem> that might've been with my old notebook
<azeem> though dunno, it wasn't much slower
<LaserJock> 52 minutes is nuts
<azeem> well, could be that there was memory pressure and it was swapping a lot
<LaserJock> I feel like I'm using gentoo again
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cprov-out> LaserJock: ping
<StevenK> Oh yes.
<StevenK> ubuntu/logs/ghc6_6.6.1-2build1_20070803-2312:Build needed 02:49:19, 1285120k disk space
<azeem> Build needed 00:10:10, 107720k disk space
<azeem> those were the good time
<azeem> s
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Fairly big...
<LaserJock> cprov-out: yeah?
<cprov-out> LaserJock: do you have some minutes to help me with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165230 in soyuz "PPA generates an endlessly upgrading package" [Undecided,In progress]
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Longest build I have.
<Fujitsu> cprov-out: Is that due to a mis-capitalised priority or something? IIRC, that was the issue last time I saw something like that.
<cprov-out> Fujitsu: yes, I thought that too, but it doesn't seems to be the case, priority is already lowercase
<Fujitsu>  Hmm, the Packages file there looks fine.
<ylan> http://www.archivum.info/linux.debian.bugs.dist/2006-09/msg06713.html anybody know the reason why nothing is being done about this
<ylan> ?
<Flannel> ylan: because it looks like its maintainer has abandoned it (no updates since Aug 2005)
<freakabcd> hi all
<crimsun> hi.
<freakabcd> I wanted to have a simple discussion about octave 2.9-forge package(s) which will be forthcoming (from me or otherwise)
<freakabcd> octave has its own system of installing forge packages; using the 'pkg' builtin. this is similar to installing perl modules from within perl
<freakabcd> now, these forge packages use a pretty standard makefile within the tar file. A sample octave2.9-forge-statistics has been made by someone.
<freakabcd> The rules file actually calls 'octave --eval "pkg install blah.tar.gz"'
<bddebian> Heya gang
<freakabcd> should this route be take or should the package be extracted and compiled and installed via the rules file directly?
<freakabcd> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Hello freakabcd
<crimsun> freakabcd: has this been raised to the Debian Octave Group?
<crimsun> (<pkg-octave-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>)
<freakabcd> crimsun, thats where the discussion is going on, heh
<freakabcd> not discussion really. just some guy made a sample statistics package
<freakabcd> and he actually calls octave --eval "pkg install ..."
<crimsun> hmph.
<crimsun> well, that approach requires a build-dependency on octave, no?
<freakabcd> i was wondering if this is the right method to go. or extract the package and install manually without calling octave
<freakabcd> yeah
<freakabcd> thats why i was very surprised. cos people wanting to installed octave 'modules' will need to have octave-dev installed
<crimsun> my opinion is that build-depending on octave seems excessive.
<crimsun> i.e., "After unpacking 35.6MB of additional disk space will be used."
<freakabcd> lemme send a mail to the list and see what they say
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> "Need to get 10.8MB of archives."
<freakabcd> i didn;t work out the size of the d/ls. but i will agree that it is excessive
<freakabcd> anyway, i'll mail now
<crimsun> ok.
<freakabcd> crimsun, silly question: should i hit 'reply all' ? if i do that the mail is sent To: person + CC:list
<freakabcd> thats not what i want, i assume. and just hitting reply gives me To:person :(
<persia> freakabcd: If Reply-To: is not ideally set, you might use "reply all", and manually tune the recipients list.
<freakabcd> ok
<somerville32> Why would you not want it set to To: person + CC:list?
<persia> somerville32: some people's clients aren't smart enough to keep them from getting it twice, and it can confuse filters.
<freakabcd> somerville32, cos all the messages i see in the thread and on the list are To:list
<crimsun> sorry, was "bzr push"ing
<freakabcd> exactly. i don;t want to send a copy to the user when he will receive it anyway. and don;t want to create a new message as it will break threading. manual tweaking it is
<persia> freakabcd: The important bit is that your reference header (In-Reply-To:) is set correctly: that will preserve threading (even for a new message).
<crimsun> I normally adjust the To: and CC:.  I also note as much at the top of the reply.
<crimsun> e.g., [Adding ubuntu-motu@ to CC:]
<TheMuso> c/c
<TheMuso> damn fingers
<persia> Finally.  The poor KVM is vindicated, and plots revenge on the false representative sack of protoplasm.
<persia> s/false/falsely/
<nxvl_work> i do a quilt patch all by myself and it seems to work :D
<persia> nxvl: Hurrah!
<nxvl_work> :D
<LaserJock> wow, lots of drama over in Gnome-land
<somerville32> :]
<StevenK> LaserJock: Hum?
<persia> planet.gnome.org has all the details
<LaserJock> nothing like elections to bring out the best in people
<alvinc> *chuckle*
<alvinc> What's the drama?
<alvinc> Or should I note ask?
<persia> alvinc: Just politics
<alvinc> Someone wants Obama and someone wants Hillary?
<alvinc> Just kidding.  :)
<LaserJock> alvinc: sort of
<StevenK> Ugh.
<LaserJock> StevenK: pretty good huh?
<StevenK> Someone really really dislikes Jeff
<LaserJock> apparently
<Hobbsee> which jeff?
<StevenK> Waugh
<ajmitch> politics & infighting on public display
<Hobbsee> ah
<StevenK> And it isn't even Debian
<somerville32> What is Jeff's IRC handle?
<StevenK> jdub
<LaserJock> I kinda surprised though that he's running
<LaserJock> *I'm
<somerville32> Why?
<LaserJock> cause he doesn't seem that involved anymore, from my limited view
<ryanakca> LaserJock: Mind updating the topic in -classroom for your class on Wednesday?
<freakabcd> what classroom ?
<freakabcd> theres a classroom channel?
<ryanakca> freakabcd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<freakabcd> wow, tomorrow at 15 UTC, thats 25 or 01 here, grr..
<LaserJock> it's 8am for me
<freakabcd> ryanakca, 'personal package archives 101'
<Hobbsee> freakabcd: 3am here, and i'm helping run it.  i win
<freakabcd> what is that covering?
<Hobbsee> launchpad's personal package archives
<freakabcd> Hobbsee, you sure do then :)
<freakabcd> bah.. i was hoping some motu-lecture
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I would say that you're a masochist, but that's normal time for you
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, i'll have worked that night, so i should be awake
<pwnguin> think there'll be a lot of people now that ppas are out of beta?
 * ajmitch thought that 1500 UTC would be 2AM for you
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: But you are usually up at that time anyway.
<ajmitch> so it's not *quite* so bad
<Hobbsee> oh, maybe it is 2.  i thought it was 3.
<TheMuso> I'd only do such a time if I had to attend a particular meeting.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: exactly
<ajmitch> last I heard, NZ is at UTC+13
<StevenK> Hobbsee is on UTC+15
<Hobbsee> no, you're right, it is 2am
<Hobbsee> my timezone stuff is still somewhat screwed
<ajmitch> I would never have guessed
<freakabcd> ok, i found the log for the 'packaging 101' held last year!
<freakabcd> hopefully it has some good info.
<freakabcd> or is that `old' information already?
<ryanakca> freakabcd: hmm... the packaging guide is good too....
<freakabcd> ryanakca, yeah i've read that. but lectures/classes are much nicer :D
<Hobbsee> it should be mostly right
<freakabcd> i'll read it when i get back home tonight
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: so should we get a gameplan together for it? or do you just want to wing it?
<freakabcd> Hobbsee, UTC+13? are we on DST now?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: gameplan is good, cprov said he's planning to email me about it.
<Hobbsee> but has not done so yet.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: k, email me if he doesn't CC me on that
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course.
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'd like to see a bit of an overview, the link to the quickstart page, then open it for questions.  i dont think the big blocks of text sessions have made it overly interesting before
<StevenK> Hrm. Are "normal" LCDs high or low DPI?
<pwnguin> kinda middling dpi
<pwnguin> only 100
<pwnguin> crappy crts are sometimes only 75 dpi
<StevenK> xdpyinfo is reporting 95x96
<ajmitch> that's probably about right
<LaserJock> StevenK: mine is 96x96
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
 * ajmitch drinks up
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
 * LaserJock drowns
 * Hobbsee drinks more
<Hobbsee> oh excellent.  i'll need more than a few drinks before work, too
<elvys_> Hi, Somebody knows how can I install Autopackages (Aplication)?
 * persia , coming late to the discussion, notes that DPI and monitor quality are not entirely related: there are bad monitors with 200DPI and really nice ones with 60.
<CyberMatt> Question what is the procedure for dealing with an upstream tarball that already has a debian/ directory
<persia> CyberMatt: Complain to upstream, and then try to work around it (debhelper now supports --ignore)
<CyberMatt> this is the LP by the way https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/164213
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164213 in ubuntu "need-packaging burnstation" [Undecided,Triaged]
<CyberMatt> its a pretty bad debian/ directory i've only neen packaging for like 3 months now and very basic stuff
<persia> CyberMatt: That's fairly normal for upstream, and why the answer is "complain to upstream" before anything else :)
<CyberMatt> yes i will
<persia> CyberMatt: My experience is that most upstreams (even those that provide a base debian/ directory) will be happier to host a provided .dsc that someone else promises to maintain, rather than keeping track of packaging issues.
<CyberMatt> makes sense oh my the last changelog entry from sarge no wonder their binary builds don't work
<CyberMatt> didn't binary compatibility break at Hoary
<persia> There was never a promise of binary compatibility (although some things seem to work even for Gutsy).  The build process is different: if that fails, it likely needs an update of some build-depends.
<CyberMatt> How does the Ubuntu build process differ from debian exactly
<persia> CyberMatt: Different configuration of the build servers, different versions of some libraries, different versions of some compilation tools.
<CyberMatt> do you still use the buildd thing
<persia> It's different, but there are buildds
<slangasek> StevenK: don't make me flame you to a crisp for talking smack about Debian
<CyberMatt> hmm the same one as the PPAs
<StevenK> slangasek: Hah. Oh, the irony, it hurts
 * persia suggests that permission to flame should be offered in direct proportion to number of bugs closed by uploads.
<CyberMatt> I'm sort of a Network and VM freak so all this stuff is very interesting
 * somerville32 grants persia a license to be a flammer.
<persia> somerville32: My Debian count is 1: I'll save it :)
<CyberMatt> hmm but what is your Ubuntu count persia
<persia> CyberMatt: That's a larger number, but not really relevant to my failed attempt at humor
 * Hobbsee randomly flames slangasek
 * slangasek randomly basks in the warmth
<CyberMatt> it was probably my inability to understand humor
<CyberMatt> more then any failed attempt
<Guest443> I have been trying to install Ubuntu for a while but no luck so far. How do i actually install it? Do i download a .iso image and burn it to the DVD?
<Hobbsee> Guest443: yes.  and it sounds like an #ubuntu type question
<TheMuso> Guest443: #ubuntu for support.
<somerville32> Are we going to be using interdiffs now for pretty much everything instead of debdiffs now?
<TheMuso> Interdiffs for new upstream only.
<TheMuso> Debdiffs for packaging updates.
<somerville32> What about package updates? Why do they need a full debdiff?
<jdong> ah, so the interdiff won't show the bazillion changes in the orig.tar.gz?
<somerville32> Isn't what got changed the important part?
<jdong> makes sense
<Fujitsu> jdong: That's the point, yep.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: debdiffs show what got changed.
<somerville32> Right, lol
<jdong> Fujitsu: is there an easy way to apply an interdiff to an existing package?
 * jdong has obviously never used interdiff
<somerville32> An interdiff and a debdiff are pretty much the same thing for a package update
<persia> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff has a procedure, although apparently there is a bug
<jdong> somerville32: agreed
<persia> somerville32: No.  An interdiff doesn't have the upstream changes.
<somerville32> persia, Except if it is a package update and not a new upstream release, there isn't an upstream change so your point is moot :P
<jdong> ah, *combinediff*
<jdong> though the workflow for combining an interdiff looks to be ridiculously convoluted.
<persia> somerville32: Ah.  Right.  True :)  I like debdiff better for that (and need to better differentiate "update" and "upgrade" in my parser)
<jdong> I'd like to see something like interdiff-apply old_diff.gz interdiff{.gz} new_diff.gz
<persia> jdong: combinediff -z interdiff.gz old.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > new_diff.gz
<jdong> persia: oh well that looks ridiculously easy
<jdong> persia: why does the "minimal santiy check" have 3 steps then?
<persia> jdong: The rest is all about verification, getting upstream, using filterdiff to selectively create a target directory, etc.
<jdong> persia: can you check the section that says "Before presenting the interdiff to a sponsor, it is a good idea to make sure it is correct, and sufficient to reconstruct the target package.", which I would expect to be the command you just posted above?
<somerville32> You know when you try to do a dist-upgrade but you don't have your desktop package install so you get an error?
<somerville32> What package is that in?
<persia> jdong: step 1: generate the new_diff.gz.  Step 2: make sure it's the same as the one you made manually.  Step 3: clean up after yourself.
<jdong> OH does that cover creating the interdiff too?
<jdong> oh it's a verification
<persia> jdong: Right.
<jdong> ok, that makes sense
<jdong> duh if I looked down 5 more lines...
<Fujitsu> jdong: /win 12
<Fujitsu> Oops.
 * somerville32 decides to fix a bug.
<TheMuso> somerville32: How about fixing 5 bugs? :p
<persia> Simultaneously?
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> persia, Thats a feat only you could perform
<Hobbsee> no, that's just possible when you pick bugs with 4+ dupes
<somerville32> :]
<persia> somerville32: The secret is to find a bug with lots of duplicates.  If you want an interesting small project that would let you close 15-20 bugs, take a look at updating zim to 0.23 (and triaging all the bugs)
<somerville32> Ok
<LaserJock> that's not fair
 * somerville32 claims Zim.
<persia> LaserJock: What's not fair.  You want a chunk of bugs to triage?
 * persia finds another little package dreaming of the slightest whisper of attention
<LaserJock> that shouldn't count
<Hobbsee> now, now, children.  there's lots of bugs for you to choose from.  no need to fight over them :P
<somerville32> But this one has 3 legs!
 * jdong poits out that Azureus bug with like 85 dupes
<persia> LaserJock: You can have kexy or glom (your choice).  Only about 5 each, but best I can do on short notice.
<persia> jdong: Yes, but that was actually hard.
<TheMuso> lol
 * somerville32 gives up on Firefox.
<LucidFox> somerville32> why?
<somerville32> Too slow on my 333mhz w/ 192mb of ram
<somerville32> Should I try 3.0?
<LaserJock> somerville32: do you use any extentions?
<somerville32> Nope
<somerville32> Except what comes by default
 * persia notes that neglected web browsers (Amaya, chimera2, dillo, etc.) are also good sources of lots of easy bugs.
<somerville32> Any gtk ones?
<Fujitsu> kazehakaze, galeon (shudder)...
<Fujitsu> *kazehakase
<somerville32> I'm going to upload a new one later tonight
<persia> Actually, those two aren't as bad as some of the others.  I think chimera2 is GTK
<somerville32> <kalikiana> is developing one with webkit or w/e it is called
<somerville32> Looks pretty nifty
<somerville32> XSBC-Orig-Maintainer ?
<TheMuso> somerville32: What about it?
<somerville32> Is that correct spelling?
<jdong> XSBC-Original-Maintainer
 * persia notes that the dpkg documentation encourages XBCS, but suggests keeping XSBC to be consistent with typical Ubutnu practice
<jdong> what does it stand for?
<persia> jdong: Experimental Source Binary Changes
<jdong> ah
<slangasek> why is Ubuntu practice not in alphabetical order? :)
<persia> slangasek: We had a discussion here in February, and decided we liked XSBC- :P  geser gets credit for nominating it
<somerville32> LP #BUG right?
<persia> somerville32: Should work.  I always do LP: #nnnnnn
<StevenK> It's in alphabetical order, just reversed
<persia> StevenK: Not quite :)
<StevenK> Shush
<TheMuso> lol
<StevenK> Then it's in PDP7-endianness
<nxvl> is there any way i can be on the ubuntu planet or do i need to be a MOTU first?
<TheMuso> nxvl: You need to be an ubunt member.
<persia> nxvl: You need to be a member first
<TheMuso> ubuntu
<nxvl> persia: and i can be a member now? or after/at the time i became a MOTU?
<persia> nxvl: Membership usually requires 2-3 months of demonstrated activity (and packaging / patching counts).  Just attend a CC meeting when you've reached that point, and bring some fans.
<somerville32> persia, Will you be my mentor?
<bddebian> No he's already mine :-)
<persia> somerville32: You don't need a mentor.  You've been around a good long time, and are doing great work, but still have enough questions you're probably not ready to apply.
<nxvl> somerville32: it doesn't work like that, you need to ask norsetto for one
 * TheMuso barely had a month of demonstrated activity before he got membership.
<somerville32> persia, thanks :]
 * persia notes that the historical records shows a very large number of bddebian sponsored persia uploads and zero persia sponsored bddebian uploads.
<persia> TheMuso: Nice work on getting fans then :)
<bddebian> pfft, just timing ;-)
<nxvl> persia: would you be one of my fans :D
<TheMuso> persia: Heh thats the thing. I had none.
<TheMuso> I just decided to give it a shot.
<persia> nxvl: When you've been around a bit more, and I've seen more of your work, likely.
<TheMuso> Or, maybbe one or two but they didn't show up.
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl *HUGS* persia 
<nxvl> mmm
<nxvl> i'm becoming a huggie bear...
<nxvl> what have do to me you people!!!
<nxvl> :P
<Hobbsee> it's called ubuntu.
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> i have 2 packages (FTBFS) on the universe sponsors queue, can someone take a look please?
<LaserJock> anybody feel like helping me with some Bash 101?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: spit it out.
<nxvl> bash is easy
<nxvl> :D
<TheMuso> lol
 * nxvl loves bash scripting
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I need to a sed line to match a name from this:
<LaserJock>           <foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>
<nxvl> LaserJock: what you want is to read that line and print only "Sarah Hobbs"?
<LaserJock> yep
<nxvl> pice of cake
<nxvl> 2 cut's and you are done
<somerville32> What would be a good way to state that I've moved libmodule-build-perl from build-depends to build-depends-indep?
<Hobbsee> " * Moved libmodule-build-perl from build-deps to build-dep-indep in debian/control"?
<LaserJock> nxvl: hmm, I suppose so
<StevenK> LaserJock: You can either do it with sed or cut, or awk
<LaserJock> what would a sed line look like? I need to get better with it
<nxvl> LaserJock:  cut -d\> -f2 | cut -d\< -f
<nxvl> LaserJock: echo "<foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>" | cut -d\> -f2 | cut -d\< -f1
<somerville32> Hobbsee, Thats what I put but I was wondering if there was a nifty short-hand way
<Hobbsee> somerville32: not really.  *shrug*
<persia> sed 's/<foaf:name>\([\sA-Za-z]*\)</foaf:name>/p'
<StevenK> % echo "<foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>" | sed -e 's/<[^>]*>\([^<]*\)<.*/\1/g'
<StevenK> Sarah Hobbs
<persia> StevenK: Breaks for other kinds of tags, no?
<StevenK> I would have thought mine would work for other tags?
 * persia forgot the critical /\1/ anyway
<StevenK> Besides, mine looks like line noise :-)
<persia> StevenK: Points for that.
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> StevenK: yours likes like something from a perl script
<StevenK> I'm not sure if that's a complement, or if I should be insulted.
<LaserJock> :-)
<nxvl> thats what i love of bash scripting, you can make things in so many diferent ways
<persia> LaserJock: No, perl would be s/<[^>]*>([^<]*)<.*/$1/g'
<persia> [
<nxvl> LaserJock: perl regexp are worst that that
<StevenK> \1 still works in Perl
 * nxvl uses to program on perl
<persia> Really?  perl is far too flexible, considering that it's not flexible enough to parse my sed & awk strings on a regular basis
<StevenK> In Perl, you'd probably due if (/<[^>]*>([^<]*)<.*/) { # play with $1 }
<persia> if?  Not ~= ?
<persia> (or =~ maybe: I forget perl)
<StevenK> The $_ =~ is implied
 * persia tries harder to forget perl
<StevenK> persia: I was paid to write Perl at $PREVIOUS_JOB
<StevenK> So I'd code Python when I got home until the pain stopped
<persia> StevenK: Sure.  For me it's two prior, but still...
 * Hobbsee packs up the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! â¢, and the copy of the riot act.
<somerville32> zim fails to build because it does "tests" when it builds and looks for a file generated by update-desktop-database
<somerville32> Should I remove this test or should I actually add desktop-file-utils as a build-dep-indep and run it before the test?
<nxvl> somerville32: i think it will be better to add as a build-dep-indep
<lifeless> Hobbsee: slugging friday?
<nxvl> tests are always a good idea
<Hobbsee> lifeless: no idea.  assume so.
 * Hobbsee slugs along
<Hobbsee> lifeless: quick, hide!
<lifeless> cool
<persia> somerville32: When it checks update-desktop-database, does it check in the build directory, or on the build system?  If the latter, it's not an ideal test, and should be mangled or dropped.
<somerville32> ok
<somerville32> Thats what I was thinking :]
<nxvl> did ubuntu members have irc servers?
<TheMuso> Not afaik.
<somerville32> Any perl puffs here?
<somerville32> :(
<somerville32> *buffs
<somerville32> Error:  File::BaseDir version 0.03 required--this is only version 0.02 at /tmp/buildd/zim-0.23/blib/lib/Zim/GUI/NotebookDialog.pm line 4.
 * StevenK tries to figure out how GTK IM modules work
<StevenK> somerville32: Zim::GUI::NotebookDialog wants a newer version of libfile-basedir-perl
 * persia suggests trying is US evening, when minghua is around to explain
<StevenK> persia: To me or somerville32?
<somerville32> Version 0.03 isn't in the repo
<persia> StevenK: To you: the SCIM maintainer is a good place to get that sort of info
<persia> somerville32: It could be...
<somerville32> persia, Is it hiding?
<somerville32> 0.2 in ubuntu and debian
<StevenK> http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/File-BaseDir-0.03/
 * somerville32 goes to attempt it.
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<somerville32> When I touch a package, should I upgrade the standards version/compat value?
<persia> somerville32: If you're intending to care for it for a while, and if you check the policy changes concerned, and make sure you comply with the new standards, yes.
<persia> If it's just a hit & run bugfix, no.
<somerville32> persia, file-basedir is asking for a geographical location at build
<somerville32> And it just loops over and over and over
<persia> somerville32: Patch it not to do that.
<StevenK> yes | sed 's/yes/Nowhere/' | build
<somerville32> StevenK, hmm?
<StevenK> Just a suggestion
<somerville32> I'm not sure I understand it.
<persia> StevenK: Isn't that a DOS on the buildds?
<StevenK> Probably
<somerville32> And there is nothing to patch
<StevenK> somerville32: perl Makefile.PL will probably read from stdin
<StevenK> echo '' | perl Makefile.PL
<persia> somerville32: There's always something to patch: that's the nature of having source.
<somerville32> StevenK, I imagine that perlmodule.mk is what is supplying the config script with the info?
<StevenK> Oh. Building perl modules with CDBS
 * StevenK stops listening. La la la la la la la
<somerville32> lol
<persia> somerville32: Just grep for the string asking for location, and find out why it's asking, and feed it a sensible default.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
<somerville32> persia, It isn't in the source package.
 * persia thinks somerville32 is having a GOOD day
<somerville32> 3am
<persia> somerville32: As StevenK says, perl + CDBS is special in many disasterously convenient ways.  You'll need to dig :(
 * StevenK still isn't listening. La la la la la la la la
<somerville32> I have a sad feeling the issue isn't the package but CDBS and Perl
<persia> somerville32: You're very likely correct.  When it works, it's perfect.  When it breaks, and it's perl, it's just extra odd.
<TheMuso> Yay. The first comment spam on my blog. :p
<highvoltage> TheMuso: heh, I hope you install a spam filter :)
<TheMuso> highvoltage: Atm, I approve all comments first.
<TheMuso> That will change if the comments queue gets too long.
<highvoltage> TheMuso: yes, that's fine for now, but I've had almost 100,000 spam messages on my blog so far, which is commonly known spam. If I had to manually mark them all as spam, it would be quite painful ;)
 * StevenK uses a POST script to post 10,000 comments
 * persia wonders how ld and strip weren't in main
<TheMuso> highvoltage: Yeah I know it will likely get to that. I'll start digging for a drupal comment spam module. I just wanted to get things going at the time.
<somerville32> Why should Perl care what continent you live on anyhow?!
<minghua> persia: How is that possible?
<minghua> persia: Aren't they both in binutils?
<persia> Hmm..  They seem also to be in elfutils.  Maybe it's a transition.
<minghua> somerville32: For deciding CPAN mirror, perhaps.
<slangasek> persia: er? ld and strip are in main
 * persia goes to read docs again, being confused
<minghua> elfutils' ld and strip should be named eu-ld and eu-strip.
<slangasek> are you reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportElfUtils already? :)
<somerville32> StevenK, If you were to run the Makefile.PL script, what env var would you set to set the mirror/what continent you're living on?
<persia> slangasek: Yes.
<slangasek> yeah, elfutils has its own version of those utilities, which shouldn't be transitioned to
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Very confusing, but I suppose there is a useful reason.
<StevenK> somerville32: I'd have to read the script
<slangasek> persia: a useful reason for them to exist?
<somerville32> StevenK, It is using the built in thing
<somerville32> StevenK, Module::Build
<slangasek> persia: they exist because someone said "eh, we already had all the code to parse elf, that was the hard part"
<persia> slangasek: Rather, a useful reason to put them in main (other than a rdepends).
<persia> heh
<slangasek> persia: no, the rdepends is the only useful reason I see :)
<persia> Hmm..  Is bug-buddy really that useful?
<minghua> slangasek: The "Upstream" link on elfutils's MIR wiki page is broken for me.
<slangasek> persia: it's a preexisting main component of the gnome desktop <shrug>
<slangasek> minghua: yeah, broken for me as well, it's the only upstream URL I had in debian/copyright
<Amaranth> I have no clue why we have bug-buddy
<Amaranth> We use apport, bug-buddy never does anything
<Amaranth> I guess because it'd break ABI to not have it
<persia> Also, bug-buddy doesn't seem to be patched to not go straight upstream: apport is more useful to us.
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: You rang?
<Amaranth> persia: It doesn't have to be patched, it never gets used
<slangasek> well, for all I care elfutils can be promoted for alpha1 and then bug-buddy and elfutils can both be demoted for alpha2 :)
<persia> Amaranth: Right, but if it was patched, I'd see a point.  When it's not, it's clearly no longer being maintained especially for Ubuntu.
<Amaranth> Have to talk to seb128, this makes no sense
<StevenK> Or bug-buggy gets demoted?
<Amaranth> Unless we want to stop using apport for things in gnome bugzilla
<persia> slangasek: Yes, but someone would have to write up two demotion requests :)
<Amaranth> Since GNOME has infrastructure like apport now (just needs an Ubuntu server)
<slangasek> persia: demotions have to be requested?  I thought we can just unseed stuff with abandon ):
<slangasek> :)
<persia> slangasek: Well, you can.  For lowly people like me, requests are involved.
<Amaranth> I thought it fell out automatically if nothing depended on it
<persia> Amaranth: Yes, but seeds are special.
<Amaranth> seeds are just ubuntu-meta?
<persia> Amaranth: mostly.  There are other seeds too.
<persia> !seeds
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seeds - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Amaranth> Ah, I right
<slangasek> hmm, bug-buddy is seeded, ok
<Amaranth> err
<slangasek> then I can't remove it either ;)
<persia> Hm.  There is a SeedManagement page on the wiki.
<Amaranth> For, say, server things that are useful but not installed
<persia> slangasek: Aren't you extra-cool yet?
<slangasek> nah
<slangasek> well, yes, but not in the way you mean
<persia> someone should poke someone in that other channel and advise them to trim the seed before it gets too close to Thursday.
<slangasek> "trim"?
 * TheMuso wonders when disks will start being built.
<persia> slangasek: Remove excess bits from
<slangasek> if you mean bug-buddy, I've been poking that channel since I finished the MIR ;)
<persia> e.g. bug-buddy
 * persia subsides
<minghua> slangasek: Perhaps ftp://sourceware.org/pub/systemtap/elfutils/
<asisak> Hey MOTUs!
<TheMuso> Hey asisak.
<slangasek> minghua: looks better, thanks
<asisak> Heya TheMuso
<minghua> Hmm, elfutils author says "IT IS NOT FOR GENERAL USE" in the first line of its README.  But we released it in etch.
<minghua> ... and feisty and up.
<LaserJock> don't all authors say that?
<persia> "NOT FOR GENERAL USE" doesn't seem an issue for universe, but for main?
<jml> LaserJock: only the ones with users.
<persia> LaserJock: There's a difference between no warrantee and a big warning
<slangasek> "this software is not licensed for use in generals"
 * persia wonders if it can be on the same CD as strategus
<somerville32> StevenK, Start listening again :P
<StevenK> somerville32: Why? :-)
<somerville32> StevenK, Do you know anything about Module:Build?
<StevenK> somerville32: Next to nothing.
<StevenK> I'm more familar with ExtUtils::MakeMaker
<somerville32> CPAN is migrating to Module::Build
<somerville32> (from what I gather)
<somerville32> Do you know of any packages that make use of Module::Build?
 * somerville32 has an idea
 * somerville32 is going to bed and will continue to tackle this in the morning
<persia> TheMuso: You do know that 5 or 6 audio apps just plain don't work for 64-bit, no?
<Ubulette> hi
<LaserJock> man, I am stuck with huge source packages to upload :(
 * Fujitsu gives LaserJock l-r-m
<Ubulette> persia, i've reposted prism yesterday. feel free to give it a try.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: please no
<Fujitsu> And sauerbraten.
<persia> Ubulette: Excellent.  I can't review now, but I shall later.
<Fujitsu> And perhaps wesnoth as well.
<LaserJock> my first hardy upload was >80MB and my second is >30MB
 * persia notes that someone else reviewing prism would be nice
<Ubulette> yep, thx
<persia> LaserJock: You could do the vegastrike & vegastrike-data merges :)
<LaserJock> no thanks
 * Ubulette is heading to work
<Ubulette> enjoy the day everyone
<Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Fujitsu
<dholbach> how are you doing?
<Fujitsu> Not bad. Yourself?
<dholbach> I'm OK, slowly waking pu and getting up to speed
<LaserJock> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> dholbach: you gonna be around at 15:00UTC?
<dholbach> LaserJock: yes
<LaserJock> dholbach: you gonna pop in to #ubuntu-classroom for PPA 101
<LaserJock> ?
<dholbach> LaserJock: sure :)
<LaserJock> I guess I better go get some sleep beforehand
<dholbach> sleep tight then :)
<TheMuso> persia: I wasn't awaer of that, but in general, waht I said is true.
<TheMuso> persia: Has anybody tried to port them?
<persia> TheMuso: Yes, the rest of what you said is very true (which is part of why I use 64-bit :) ).  I've looked at porting them, as has slangasek, but it's design issues, not code issues.
<TheMuso> persia: Right. What apps?
<slangasek> wait, what have I tried to port?
<persia> slangasek: csound for one
<slangasek> oh, eew, csound
<slangasek> I don't think I tried to port it, I just got elbow-deep into its guts and then ran away screaming
<slangasek> isn't csound the one that's broken on 64-bit because it includes its own, crappy l10n lib? :)
<persia> TheMuso: csound and cecilia are the ones that come to mind right now.  There was another one I've forgotten that look forever to clean out.
<persia> slangasek: Yes.
<TheMuso> Right.
<slangasek> yeah, I was just short of recommending it be removed from the debian archive altogether instead of just marking it as "not for 64-bit" :)
<\sh> moins
<TheMuso> persia: Well it sounds like the apps that don't work on 64-bit are in the minority, and don't sound like apps that a lot of people would want to use.
<persia> TheMuso: Definitely the minority, but I used to use csound before upstream broke 64-bit compatibility, and I'd be happy to use it again.
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<persia> Ah.  supercollider, where upstream decided that a 64-bit data structure should be used to store a 32-bit flag and a 32-bit pointer.  That's the one that was really frustrating to track down (and for which we've had at least two porting patches)
<TheMuso> Fun.
<TheMuso> At least that was fixable.
<persia> Actually, no.  It's not fixable.  Changing the data structure causes the app to run too slowly to maintain an acceptably low number of xruns.
<persia> (although Toadstool's patch at least allows it to compile)
<slangasek> just change it to a 32-bit flag, and a 32-bit offset into a lookup table of pointers
<slangasek> ;-)
<persia> slangasek: Go for it :)
<slangasek> don't care about the app :)
<persia> I stopped caring after spending two releases trying to get the old binaries removed.
<minghua> Hi mok0.  I added a few comments/questions on REVU about Torque.
<mok0> Yes, I noticed! Thanks!
<mok0> minghua: I agree with you on your various points. I can't remember what the openssh dependency is for; I think the build checks for it
<minghua> mok0: That's what I think as well.  It would be nice if we can patch it not to do that though.
<mok0> minghua: why is that?
<mok0> minghua: you need ssh for the running system
<minghua> mok0: Because I don't see a reason to really use ssh.  It's likely just checking its existence.
<mok0> minghua: true
<minghua> mok0: The dependency is good.  I'm talking about build-dependency.
<mok0> minghua: I understand
<mok0> minghua: Well, I'l take a look!
<minghua> mok0: Keep up the good work. :-)
<mok0> minghua: Will do ;-)
<mok0> Gotta run, got some teaching to do... for the rest of the day :-(
<nand> hiya! I was wondering, what is the deadline for submitting new packages / new packages version on REVU? feature freeze?
 * Fujitsu forgets if FF is the latest submission date, or the latest approval date.
<Fujitsu> That was a matter of much contention last release.
<Amaranth> I'd hope it'd be approval
<persia> Feature Freeze is the latest approval date: best to get things in a couple weeks earlier (although exceptions can be requested).  For extra points, get things in by DIF, as after this, there is more resistance to any possibly required library adjustments, etc.
<nand> DIF?
<Amaranth> debian import freeze
<Amaranth> which is soon, i think
<nand> thx :)
<persia> REVU days are planned through Feature Freeze, but the last days are likely only to grab packages that are really requried to meet the feature goals for hardy.
<persia> Amaranth: 14th December.
<Amaranth> Well there you go
<Fujitsu> Hm, soon :(
<nand> persia: ok thanks for the infos.
<persia> nand: No problem.  I don't suppose you'd like to update the wiki with that information :)
<persia> Fujitsu: Only 200 merges left, so that's only ~14 a day :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Heh.
 * Fujitsu is doing his last couple now, while waiting for some security updates to build.
<nand> persia: It was on the wiki? oh sorry.
 * TheMuso has done his, and is doing Martin's, Daniel's, and possibly one or two of Matthias'.
<TheMuso> To help clear the queue.
<persia> nand: I don't think what I said existed anywhere outside my head before I said it, but I think it should be on the wiki, so we don't have another argument about it near Feature Freeze.
 * persia cheers TheMuso 
<\sh> Fujitsu, bah wireshark is evil
<minghua> Why are merges connected to the DIF date?
<nand> persia: Ok i'll add it.
 * slangasek pets the wireshark
<Fujitsu> \sh: Why?
 * Fujitsu drops some CVEs on slangasek.
<persia> nand: Thanks.
<slangasek> Fujitsu: pff, that's why you run tshark for the capture and run the gui as a minimum-priv user :)
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Ideally, yes.
<Amaranth> I don't have any merges to do :P
<persia> minghua: The idea is to separate development of each release into three phases.
<Amaranth> Or time to do them, so it all works out
<persia> In the first phase, we try to grab all the random crack we can, and push it in.
<\sh> Fujitsu, 0.99.7prebla...fixes a lot more new CVEs...
<persia> That ends with DIF.
<geser> minghua: afaik there is no connection, merges should be possible till UVF==FF or later if it's only a new revision
<Fujitsu> And this is a particularly nasty release, as it's LTS.
<persia> In the second phase, we try to organise and coordinate everything, so it basically works.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Damnit. Can't they make their software secure?
<\sh> Fujitsu, /me needs to backport some more CVEs to wireshark downto edgy
<persia> That ends with Feature Freeze.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Thanks for looking at that.
<persia> In the third phase, we close all the remaining bugs.
<Amaranth> hahaha
<TheMuso> s/all the reamining/as many bugs as we can/
<persia> That ends with Release Freeze.
<TheMuso> remaining*
<persia> TheMuso: All of them :P
<Amaranth> Then we all go drink a lot
<TheMuso> persia: Always the optimist.
<\sh> Fujitsu, bug #164501 ... the last sync fixed it for hardy...and some are falling in our responsibility downto edgy
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: No, we do that when people criticise LP.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164501 in wireshark "more security issues with wireshark from 0.99.6 down to ..." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164501
<persia> Right.  Then 1 week drinking, 1 week conference, and do it all again :)
<geser> Amaranth: Ubuntu Drinking Summit?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Sigh.
<Amaranth> geser: Exactly.
<Fujitsu> geser: Heh.
<minghua> persia: Right.  I would hope our merging work would be more like "making it basically work" rather than like "grab random crack", though. ;-)
<persia> geser: Week before
<slangasek> you can always close bugs, you just can't always fix them
<Fujitsu> slangasek: That's a good point.
<Amaranth> slangasek: Hey, that's a good point.
 * Amaranth closes all his bugs
<TheMuso> slangasek: Good point.
<persia> minghua: First pass merging is "grab random crack", as we just merge without thinking too much.  For the second phase, most people keep half an eye on Debian, and grab stuff, but they should all be "updated merges" rather than "outstanding merges".
<\sh> let's close all the bug but #1 ,-)
 * Fujitsu waits evilly for mass-bug-editing-phase-1.
 * persia has a script that does that
 * Fujitsu notes there is no undo feature yet.
<minghua> \sh: Let's close #1 as "Won't Fix" as well, then.
<persia> (this is why my script is not available)
 * Fujitsu has an email client that does that, though ISP mail servers get cranky.
<\sh> minghua, nah..it's the only bug we can resolv in the future ,-)
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: Time for a shot?
<persia> Fujitsu: It's only about 15 lines each that need be changed from the various BTS management scripts (as those are email based) :)
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: I think so.
<Fujitsu> persia: That's true.
<minghua> Hmm, \sh, what's wrong with your left eye? :-)
 * Fujitsu pokes \sh in the eye, and solves the dilemma.
<geser> Fujitsu: the right one?
<Fujitsu> geser: No, the left.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Is ubuntu-cve still moving to LP RSN, or should I send a bundle your way?
<Fujitsu> (and does it inherit LP RSN?)
<Fujitsu> \sh: 10 consecutive CVEs. Nice.
<slangasek> proactive security auditing
<slangasek> :)
<Fujitsu> Oops, 11.
<Fujitsu> slangasek: But they'll come out with another 20 in a week.
<Fujitsu> And then the week after that.
 * Fujitsu wonders if that wins `most CVEs fixed in one release of an open source product'
<Fujitsu> \sh: Is Hardy safe from those, with pre1?
<slangasek> Fujitsu: you're talking about wireshark, right?  parsing stuff from the wire is hard, the CVE numbers are roughly proportional to the usefulness of the tool :)
<Fujitsu> slangasek: I guess. But then there's wordpress...
<slangasek> ... whose CVE numbers are /not/ roughly proportional to the usefulness of the tool :-P
<geser> Fujitsu: have you already seen bug #172265?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172265 in feynmf "[feynmf] Insecure temporary file creation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172265
<Fujitsu> geser: I've not. Looking.
<Fujitsu> geser: If you see bugs like that, can you please subscribe motu-swat?
<\sh> Fujitsu, yepp
<geser> Fujitsu: sure
<Fujitsu> \sh: Was that to Hardy being OK?
<\sh> Fujitsu, right :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, and all CVEs which are affecting edgy to gutsy will be fixed during the weekend I hope
<Fujitsu> \sh: You rock.
<geser> Fujitsu: poking \sh's left eye worked :)
<\sh> Fujitsu, no...I'm mad ;)
<Fujitsu> geser: Heheh.
<\sh> Fujitsu, my wife's killing me...
<minghua> So feynmf is indeed the package I was thinking about.
<Fujitsu> I see no CVEs open for it in ubuntu-cve, but I think that's fairly out of date at the moment.
 * Fujitsu checks.
<Fujitsu> Oh, it's assigned to texlive...
<\sh> so..now for something completly different..installing gutsy on a dl360 with drupal as CMS, just because our java people are not able to get the "I need to compile lenya from scratch, just because we have to change the domain name" package working :(
<minghua> Fujitsu: We seem to have feynmf split from the big texlive blob.
<Fujitsu> minghua: So it's not a duplicate copy of it?
 * Fujitsu checks Debian.
<minghua> texlive-full depends on feynmf though.
<Fujitsu> OK, that's good.
<Fujitsu> So it's separate.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I believe it's not.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Not separate? Or not a duplicate copy?
<minghua> Norbert paid special attention not to include already packaged packages in texlive-*.
<Fujitsu> Aha, very good.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Not duplicate.
<Fujitsu> minghua: That's for checking that out.
<minghua> No problem.
<Fujitsu> s/That's/Thanks/
<Fujitsu> Urgh.
 * minghua read that as Thanks...
<Fujitsu> So did I.
<Fujitsu> I typed it as that too, but apparently not.
<\sh> Fujitsu, you want to kill me...reading your comment to cacti ;)
<Fujitsu> \sh: Why would I want to kill you?
<\sh> Fujitsu, -EMOREWORK
<Fujitsu> \sh: Oh, I see.
<\sh> anyways....will have a look on it
<Fujitsu> \sh: Thanks.
<\sh> Fujitsu, found the fix in RHs bugzilla...refering to upstreams svn
<\sh> Fujitsu, btw...would you like to help me to document some of this work for security fixes, as discussed during the last motu meeting?
<Fujitsu> \sh: Link bugs like that, if you can find them.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Of course!
<\sh> Fujitsu, so we can try to find more people doing work on this topic?
<Fujitsu> That would be most desirable.
<\sh> Fujitsu, cool :)
<Fujitsu> geser: That feynmf bug was actually fixed in Debian years ago.
<\sh> Fujitsu, can you access cacti.net?
<\sh> Fujitsu, or is it down, could be that's only our connection...
<Fujitsu> \sh: I can't see it either. Somebody probably SQL-injected it away, with their code quality...
<\sh> Fujitsu, thx...just wanted to be sure it's not me  ;)
 * Fujitsu spins the CVE wheel... which lucky package will get its CVEs fixed next?
<\sh> Fujitsu, CVE-2007-6100 ?
 * Fujitsu pokes ubotu.
<Fujitsu> Hm, I thought it did respond to that.
<Fujitsu> Maybe not.
<\sh> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in libraries/auth/cookie.auth.lib.php in phpMyAdmin before 2.11.2.2, when logins are authenticated with the cookie auth_type, allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the convcharset parameter to index.php, a different vulnerability than CVE-2005-0992.
<ubotu> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in index.php in phpMyAdmin before 2.6.2-rc1 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the convcharset parameter. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2005-0992)
 * \sh is now known as ubotu
<Fujitsu> Ah, not in the DB yet.
<Fujitsu> \sh: I was just grepping through ubuntu-cve for phpmyadmin CVEs, as it turns out.
<\sh> Fujitsu, CVE-2007-6110 is also a nice candidate
<\sh> Fujitsu, ubotu should search NVD as well
<Fujitsu> \sh: Ideally. I might file a bug.
<jussi01> hmmm, how do i see permissions on a file from the command line?
<\sh> jussi01, ls -la <filename> ?
<jussi01> \sh: thanks... had a brain block ;)
<\sh> I wonder if http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2007-6122 and http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2007-6123 are also true for hybserv and dancer-services
<\sh> Fujitsu, is ubuntu-cve back online ?
<Fujitsu> \sh: The bzr branch, but not the web UI, as far as I know.
<TheMuso> What upgrade paths do we support?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Dapper -> Hardy && Gutsy -> Hardy
<TheMuso> THought so, just wanted to check, thanks.
<frenchy> Can anyone please explain how dh_installman knows where to find the man files I want to install?  My build is omitting the man page and I don't understand why.
<StevenK> frenchy: You either specify it when you run dh_installman or you put the manual page name in debian/manpages
<frenchy> I use CDBS and it's definately running `dh_installman -pme-tv`.  I read the man page for dh_installman and it said "... debian/package.manpages can list other man pages to be installed".
<frenchy> StevenK: So in my case, is my man page an "other" man page?
<frenchy> StevenK: So I've simply misinterpreted the use of the word "other" to mean additional.
<StevenK> frenchy: Right.
<frenchy> StevenK: Thank you.
<frenchy> Here's another good one, "help" or "doc"?  I have GNOME help and a man page(s) ... do the man pages go in "doc" and the GNOME help in "help" ... or should I combine them into "help"?
<frenchy> StevenK: That fixed the original man page issue.  It now installs.  Thank you again.
<StevenK> frenchy: No problem
<frenchy> siretart: I've dl'ed the source for gxine.  And it was this package that I thought that I might have to put man pages in doc?  Do you know if this is correct?  Is there a standard?
<Fujitsu> Greetings, oh great green alien.
<Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu!
<frenchy> Does silence mean that "it doesn't matter"?
<frenchy> Have I used up all my MOTU credits, already?  Damn :)
<soren> frenchy: I don't understand your question
<Fujitsu> \sh: Should I file a bug requesting component-specific security contacts?
<Fujitsu> Hm, I guess that might not work, actually. Damn.
<Fujitsu> As not everything that's embargoed will be in main...
<frenchy> soren: Hi,  I knew if I was annoying enough someone would answer, thanks.  Man pages --> doc,  GNOME help --> help ... it that correct, or am I supposed to combine them?
<soren> I still don't understand the question.
<soren> What does "man pages --> doc" mean?
<proppy> !info scribes
<ubotu> scribes: simple, slim and sleek, yet powerful text editor for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.2.9-1 (gutsy), package size 714 kB, installed size 3816 kB
<proppy> nice
<frenchy> soren: Oh sorry for not being clear.  Do my man pages go in a doc directory?  Do my GNOME help pages go in a help directory?  If I have both do I combine them because it kind of seems like overkill to have 2 documentation directories?
<nenolod> hmm
<soren> frenchy: Whatever you're packaging should install stuff in the right place?
<nenolod> has the dust cleared in hardy yet? or is it not sane enough to use in production yet? :P
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it's not sane enough to use in production until release.
<nenolod> Hobbsee, well, by "production" i mean on my local machine. not on any mission critical hardware ;)
<Fujitsu> If you have to ask that...
<frenchy> soren: Sorry, I'm obviously still not being clear.  What is the "right place"?
<nenolod> Fujitsu, well, i'm just asking if anything is majorly broken
<nenolod> ;p
<soren> frenchy: What are you trying to do?
<soren> nenolod: Right now it works fairly well, but we might break it 27 times before release. If your setup break, you get to keep both pieces.
<nenolod> soren, well i know that ;)
<frenchy> soren: Package my application ... ohhh ... yeah this isn't a packaging question.  This is an upstream question.  But I guess that you guys will know what is expected.
<frenchy> soren: I'm a developer/packager.
<soren> frenchy: Yes, but if you were packaging stuff, the upstream ought to be doing this correctly. I didn't know you were upstream.
<soren> frenchy: man pages belong in /usr/share/man. Gnome help files belong elsewhere.
<frenchy> soren: lol ... You don't know how many times I've had to mention that.  Aparently, I'm weird for being a developer and really liking Ubuntu..
<nenolod> frenchy, why? ubuntu lets you get stuff done more efficiently
<nenolod> frenchy, those same jackasses probably believe things like Gentoo is the only OS for devs
<Hobbsee> sigh.  as i was saying....
<frenchy> Oh ... I agree Ubuntu is _awesome_.  But it just appears that it's not that common.
<Hobbsee> nenolod: it's good when it doesn't crash.  or otherwise break
<nenolod> Hobbsee, right. i'll just wait for beta1 and continue using hardy in chroot
<nenolod> ;)
<frenchy> common = developers that are packagers.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What is it doing this time?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: X froze. tried to use the sysrq combo, but got nothing.
<Hobbsee> not sure if i called it right
<nenolod> frenchy, well i develop a well known XMMS fork, and help to maintain it's packaging in both Debian and Ubuntu where I can :P
<frenchy> soren: I'm asking in the upstream ... where do they go ... I'm way off-topic here but didn't realise that until I was halfway in.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah.
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee, mind give-back gambas on Hardy?
<nenolod> so perhaps it's not as uncommon as some people would like to believe -- for example, sabdfl or somebody was talking about streamlining processes for upstreams to maintain packages directly in ubuntu
<frenchy> nenolod: Well it's good to know there are other weirdos out there too.  Nice to meet you.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Alt+SysRq+{S,U,R}
<DktrKranz> erm... gambas2, not gambas
<Hobbsee> ahhh.  i thought it was alt+shift+ctrl+sysrq + k or something.
<StevenK> That reads like an Emacs "shortcut"
<Fujitsu> I have to do some special stuff due to this laptop keyboard, I believe.
<nenolod> emacs has shortcuts?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: exactly
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Why would you sync, then unmount, then set the keyboard to raw?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I thought R was Reboot?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: B is reboot.
<StevenK> nenolod: Sure, they're like that
<Fujitsu> REISUB is the magic safe reboot sequence.
<StevenK> Ah
<Fujitsu> O is off.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: logically, of course
 * Hobbsee just uses the good old "press and hold the power button"
<frenchy> So as upstream ... I'm god ... muhahahaha.  The poor package maintainer will have to deal with the rubbish that I have created.  Oh wait a sec ... that's me!
<nenolod> Hobbsee, that's the approach i take too :D
<Fujitsu> Raw, Kill, kIll harder, Sync disks, Unmount, reBoot.
<nenolod> followed by yelling at my computer things like "X.org is !&%(*%@&@(*#@@ garbage"
<nenolod> ;)
<Hobbsee> hahahahaha
<nenolod> actually, it's probably the proprietary nvidia drivers which suck
 * Fujitsu dies
<Fujitsu> phpmyadmin wants yada to build.
<Fujitsu> DIE DIE DIE
<StevenK> Fujitsu: How do you get Kill == E?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Hm, I thought it was.
 * StevenK chuckles insanely about dexter
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me what is debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error ?
<StevenK> You run -$(MAKE) clean
<frenchy> slytherin: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tdebian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error.html
<slytherin> StevenK: No, there is only -$(MAKE) -i distclean
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: stab it.  stab it now.
<frenchy> slytherin: Google it .. it's the first result.
<slytherin> frenchy: thanks
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I have to fix 6 or so CVEs in it first.
<frenchy> slytherin: Also when you run lintian add the -i option.
<Fujitsu> I'm not sure that keescook would like me changing the build system :P
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: use that as a reason to kill the package from ubuntu.  no more need to fix the cve's.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<StevenK> "Depends on yada. yada is TEH SUCK." *boot*
<Fujitsu> Is there an override method for the DebianMaintainerField check in dpkg-buildpackage yet?
<Fujitsu> Oh, diiiiiiiiie yada diiiiiiiiie. WHY IS THIS debian/rules MUTATING BEFORE MY EYES?
<StevenK> Because that's what yada *does*
<Fujitsu> It's adding bits and I can't see where they're coming from.
<StevenK> Sounds right.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's yada for you.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: see the control.in, iirc.
<StevenK> No, debian/packages
<Fujitsu> But, but, but:
<Fujitsu> -       umask 022; yada generate copyright \
<Fujitsu> +       umask 022; yada generate copyright phpmyadmin \
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, that's it.  knew it was something nonstandard.
<Hobbsee> didn't think control.in was right
<StevenK> Of *course*. It's yada.
 * StevenK tries to crowbar his yada knowledge off his brain
<Hobbsee> does bitching at yada qualify for a drink, in the great MOTU drinking game?
<Fujitsu> Now, do I build the source package in a feisty chroot, or do I mangle the diff manually... I think the latter.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Three
<Hobbsee> excellent!@
<StevenK> You need to finish every drop of liquor in the house if a package builds and didn't require any bitching.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It built!
 * Hobbsee just refuses to touch them
<StevenK> Hrm. Irony.
<StevenK> % quodlibet --print-playing
<StevenK> Megadeth - Risk - 2/12 - Prince Of Darkness
<StevenK> Yes, dexter he's coming for you!
 * StevenK modifies the -motu drinking game.
<StevenK> "Take a drink if someone mentions yada."
<StevenK> "Take two drinks if someone mentions yada, followed by sucks, bites, blows, and so on."
<StevenK> "Take three drinks if someone starts complaining about a package since it Build-Depends on yada."
<StevenK> "Finish the bottle if they ask you for help."
<Fujitsu> StevenK: This needs a wiki page.
<StevenK> If it does then I need to dig up the logs. :-)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you must change the build system.
<Fujitsu> I must.
 * Fujitsu prods yada.
<Fujitsu> make: *** No rule to make target `apply-patches'.  Stop.
<frenchy> Yes, MOTUs, it's that time of night again.  I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv
<Fujitsu> Die. Please.
<Fujitsu> Die die die die.
<StevenK> That's two more drinks
<Fujitsu> Heh.
 * Hobbsee just refuses to deal with any yada-infested packages
 * Fujitsu has decided to get up to date on the phpmyadmin CVEs now, rather than waiting and collecting more.
<Fujitsu> So that means dealing with yada.
<Fujitsu> What an aid it is..
<frenchy> May I ask what yada is?  Because, as you can imagine,  google's got a lot of stuff on yada.
<mok0> uh uh here goes
<StevenK> yada - Yet Another Debianisation Aid
<Hobbsee> frenchy: you don't want to know
<Hobbsee> frenchy: see 'apt-cache show yada'
<Fujitsu> !info yada
<ubotu> yada: Yet Another Debianisation Aid. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.53 (gutsy), package size 47 kB, installed size 248 kB
<DktrKranz> Yet Another Damn A*shole
<StevenK> frenchy: Just think, it's debhelper, plus CDBS, plus DBS, plus something horribly icky put into a blender
<BugMaN> hi all
<Fujitsu> Hi BugMaN.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: you forgot quilt
<frenchy> BugMaN: HI there.
 * Fujitsu uploads it, changing the description to `Yet Another Dangerous Artifact' or so.
<StevenK> No, it doesn't do the whole patches as a stack madness
<Hobbsee> any packages that attempt to build-dep on yada will not be allowed into the archive
<frenchy> Oh ... I thought that CBS was a good thing?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: any chance of replacing yada with a metapackage that says "this has been removed due to evilness"?
 * Fujitsu wonders if we can demote it below multiverse.
<frenchy> s/CBS/CDBS/
<azeem> Hobbsee: did people start to include a private copy of yada to circumvent that yet?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, out of the archive.
<Hobbsee> azeem: apparently so.  the description says you can.
<mok0> cdbs i great
<mok0> s/i/is
<StevenK> I managed to crowbar yada out of main, I was proud of that.
<azeem> note that some Debian people say the same about CDBS that you say about yada
<frenchy> SO CDBS good, yada bad .. got it.
<Hobbsee> so, this release you need to crowbar it out of universe.
<Hobbsee> azeem: cdbs seems to mostly follow other packaging standards.
<Hobbsee> azeem: yada just does evil mutating things.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure the two can be put in the same basket
<Hobbsee> i mean, cdbs, you will still end up with the same files yous tarted with.
<StevenK> CDBS doesn't regenerate the *entire* debian/control
 * dholbach changes the topic to: Help out by bitching: We'll start raising MOTU funds! Pay 5$ for every bitchfest you start or participate in! YAY!
<mok0> You should not use the control generation feature of cdbs
<\sh> Fujitsu, would be cool :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ROFL!
<mok0> hey we're earning cash right now!
<Hobbsee> dholbach: do the monies go towards providing the drinks, for the MOTU drinking game?
<dholbach> we should REALLY do that
<Hobbsee> mutation of the swear jar
<StevenK> dholbach: We were thinking of wiki-ifing the -motu drinking game
<dholbach> we could start buying ponies for people who do good work in the team :)
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
<StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
 * Hobbsee drinks up
<Fujitsu> 31 packages build-depend on that thing. 4 of those are libapache-*, so should be dead anyway.
 * Hobbsee checks in the fridge
<Fujitsu> Awww, yada doesn't build-dep on itself :'(
<Hobbsee> oy!  someone start another rant!  we need more drinks
<dholbach> no, please don't - thanks
<StevenK> $ wc -l die-yada-die
<StevenK> 31 die-yada-die
 * dholbach leaves for lunch
<Hobbsee>  but we cant play the drinknig game without any drinks!
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
<mok0> frenchy: see what you started?
<frenchy> Well I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what's wrong with my package and whether I've used CDBS properly ... *cough* ... yes that was a shameless plug.
<dholbach> mok0: it wasn't frenchy who started the yada discussion
<frenchy> mok0: Oh dear.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: it was involving a package using it, that someoen was otuching.
<mok0> Ah. ok. But he asked what was wrong with it!
<StevenK> It was the other f, Fujitsu
<\sh> oh god...I found the best asterisk and web application ever
<Fujitsu> \sh: I've almost finished Feisty/Gutsy phpmyadmin up to PMASA-2007-7, and will look at -8 shortly.
<StevenK> \sh: Trixbox?
<Fujitsu> It was Feisty's phpmyadmin, which is being objectionable.
<\sh> dholbach, if you ever want to surprise your girlfriend...www.marcophono.org
<\sh> StevenK, nope...it's a joke application
<\sh> StevenK, for .de, .ch, and .at :)
 * Fujitsu questions the urgency of this upload:
<Fujitsu> phpmyadmin (4:2.10.0.2-1) unstable; urgency=low
<Fujitsu> * Repackage using debhelper instead of yada (Closes: #417018).
<\sh> StevenK, you call, someone and you have predefined sentences...you choose a name and go :)
<\sh> btw..if you ever wanted to know how the dinos died...view http://www.sourcecode.de/content/howto-dinosaur-death
<zul> morning
<Hobbsee> hi zul
<zul> hi Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi zul.
<zul> hey Fujitsu
 * zul hates arp poisioning
<frenchy> persia mentioned yesterday that I should get in contact with #mythbuntu.  I know what Mythbuntu is ... but I would like to know how to get in contact with them.  Can anyone help me please?
<zul>  /join #mythbuntu
<StevenK> zul: It's usually the ARP cache that's poisioned
<frenchy> Hi zul, so I'm on freenode ... are they on irc.ubuntu.com?
<Hobbsee> yes
<StevenK> irc.ubuntu.com is Freenode
<zul> StevenK: when you run a program and dont really know what you are doing and bring down a subnet (not me, coworker)
<StevenK> Hah
<frenchy> StevenK: Forgive me, I'm new to this.  ohhh ... it redirects you.
<zul> StevenK: such as my shitty life at work ;)
<frenchy> That's why I can't find the room ... redirects to #ubuntu-mythtv ... thanks.
<siretart> frenchy: sorry? ENOCONTEXT
<frenchy> Are you referring to my earlier questions about gxine?
<frenchy> siretart: BTW, Hi. That was meant for you ^^^
<frenchy> siretart: Or are you referring to my lack of ability to navigate IRC.
<frenchy> ?
<siretart> yes
<frenchy> siretart: Hmmm? Now I'm even more confused?
<frenchy> Just like the question mark at the end of that last sentence.
<siretart> frenchy: I'm too busy atm to read backlog. the line that higlighted me does not contain enough context
<frenchy> siretart: Do my man pages go in a doc directory?  Do my GNOME help pages go in a help directory?  If I have both do I combine them because it kind of seems like overkill to have 2 documentation directories?
<frenchy> siretart: yes/no will do.
<frenchy> siretart: thanks.
<siretart> frenchy: 'your' manpages? gnome? huh?
<frenchy> siretart: I'm a developer/packager.  The question is about the normal structure of a upstream project (off-topic, yes, but I have your attention now).  I was looking into gxine (something that you've packaged previously) and thought that you might know "the norm".
<siretart> frenchy: ah, I see. well, I'm not sure if there is a norm for that. gxine uses automake, so you might refer to the automake info pages about the GNU recommendations
<siretart> frenchy: you might also have a look at the gnu coding standards, they also have recommendation about documentation
<frenchy> siretart: Thank you very much.  I'm also using AM.  I'll hunt down the GNU coding standards.
<jpatrick> how can I export a new PATH in debian/rules?
<azeem> jpatrick: why do you need thatÃ
<azeem> ?
<jpatrick> so the build system can find kde4-config in /usr/lib/kde4/bin
<jpatrick> which is what it needs to play nice...
<mruiz> hi all
<jpatrick> hey mruiz!
<mruiz> dholbach, I sent you an email ;-)
<mruiz> hi jpatrick
<jpatrick> mruiz: I sent you an email ;)
<dholbach> mruiz: hey, I know, but was until now too busy to reply
<mruiz> dholbach, take your time
<txwikinger2> if I need to change a file inside the debian folder in order to fix a bug, I just change the file, I don't need to use a patchsystem, right?
<ScottK> txwikinger2: Right
<txwikinger2> Thanks ScottK
<ScottK> No trouble.
<huats> hello everyone
<slytherin> generally how much time does it take for an updated package to show up in revu web interface after uploading?
<ScottK> slytherin: IIRC the cron job that does it runs every 10 minutes
<slytherin> ScottK: Ok. I will wait then. :-) I am assuming the same time for account to get created. This is my first upload
<ScottK> Yes.  Account gets created after the upload is processed.
<slytherin> I have just uploaded latest version of gnusim8085, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gnusim8085 I am one of the upstream maintainers and trying to take over the maintenance of this package (in Ubuntu). I have already talked with last uploader Barry deFreese and he is ok with this.
<cyberix> I'm trying to find the _second_ sponsor for my package pq. I have posted the package to REVU, fixed all problems that have been raised, asked TB to confirm Multiverse inclusion and received approvals for inclusion from Shuttleworth, Zimmerman and Troup. I've also contacted the upstream developer and he said he will subscribe for pq bugs in Launchpad once it gets included in Ubuntu. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
<nxvl_work> good morning folks!
<cyberix> What are ubuntu.com email addresses? Who can get them? Are they just forwarding services?
<ScottK> You have to be an Ubuntu member to get one and yet, they are just forwarded.
<ScottK> yet/yes
<cyberix> "Ubuntu member"?
<Hobbsee> !member
<ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<dholbach> and MOTU membership include ubuntumembers membership, if you should decide to become one
<cyberix> Thanks
 * huats notice that dholbach is always reminding that Ubuntu membership is included in MOTU membership :)
<dholbach> well, that's what we have the different team councils for :)
<huats> :)
<huats> I know dholbach, I am just noticing :D
<huats> and I understand clearly that you advertise the MOTU membership to become an ubuntu  member
<huats> :)
 * ScottK thought Ubuntu membership was a requirement to be a MOTU?
<huats> ScottK: nope
<ScottK> dholbach: When did that change?
<huats> nxvl_work: not looking for me today ?
<huats> :)
<nxvl_work> huats: if you want me to look for you
<dholbach> ScottK: when the MC was put in place
<nxvl_work> :P
<ScottK> Odd as I was made MOTU by the MC, but had to go to CC for membership first.
<dholbach> ScottK: could be that you were an ubuntu member already at that time
<nxvl_work> MC = MOTU Council & CC = Community Council ?
<ScottK> nxvl_work: Yes
<ScottK> dholbach: I went for membership first as it was required.
<dholbach> ScottK: "2008-05-08 23:47:10 CEST" was the time when ubuntu-dev was made a member of ubuntumembers
<dholbach> errrrr
<dholbach> wrong date: 2006-05-09 23:47:10 CEST
<huats> 2008 ? dholbach  are you sure ?
<ScottK> OK.  Maybe I just misunderstood the requirement.
<ScottK> If so, I wasn't the only one.  Oh well.
<dholbach> ScottK: whenever I see that somebody who's MOTU contributor adds themselves to the CC agenda or wants to join ubuntumembers I let them know
<slytherin> dholbach: free to review a package? :-D
<ScottK> OK.  Well I became a MOTU when you weren't particularly around much so that'd explain it.
<dholbach> nxvl_work: I added MC to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations
<nxvl_work> dholbach: thnx, but i was just making sure, i have read it around there
<dholbach> ScottK: I'll add it to my list to add it to all kinds of "how to become a member" howtos
<ScottK> dholbach: Sounds good.
<huats> dholbach: that is why I was teasing you about... since you told me that when I told you that I was going to aply for ubuntu membership on the next CC
<dholbach> hehe :)
<huats> :)
<dholbach> weird... why does http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/ have "Luca Falavigna" as title and http://planet.ubuntu.com/ "Desk"?
<huats> gouki:  ping
<dholbach> hey apachelogger
<apachelogger> dholbach: hi
<slytherin> Anyone willing to review an updated package gnusim8085?
<apachelogger> slytherin: Standards-Version: 3.7.2.2 + add a homepage tag (considering something homepagey is available ;-)
<LaserJock> dholbach: because Planet hates me :(
<dholbach> LaserJock: but still... NEW INTERVIEWS! :)
<LaserJock> dholbach: for some reason Planet is taking the title from the last pic!!
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies1
<dholbach> yeah, really weird
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies!
<LaserJock> dholbach: on wordpress.com it's fine, in RSS it's fine. It seems to be only Planet
<dholbach> *shrug*
<LaserJock> dholbach: so next time I'm gonna try just not giving any pics a title and see if that helps
<nxvl_work> here planet ubuntu has "Planet ubuntu" title
<\sh> well, our beloved dktr forgot, that he spammed my inbox
<\sh> in his first days being a hopeful :)
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: get an email?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no, but i've bugged cprov-lunch about it again
<nxvl_work> why is ubuntu community so nice?
<nxvl_work> :D
<\sh> nxvl_work, because we are all alcoholics
<nxvl_work> heh
<\sh> at least me .... in this very special moment at work
<LaserJock> \sh: or Ubuntuholics ;-)
<\sh> this is so crazy here
<apachelogger> very special moment?
<apachelogger> like always?
<\sh> apachelogger, like combots always
<apachelogger> right :P
<\sh> "\sh please explain the abbrev. 'NFS'"
<\sh> what should you do?
<\sh> I wrote "no file system"
 * proppy beer pleeeassseee
<apachelogger> lol
<\sh>  /dcc proppy send beer
<apachelogger> proppy: join #amarok and write ~order beer :P
<\sh> or we have to write something about subversion...
<\sh> I mean, every specialist knows what subversion is...but our management?
<\sh> nope
<\sh> so..."ok...subversion is a VCS...like CVS, bzr, git or whatever you find on google"
<\sh> "90% of the developers are working on unix or unix-a-like operating systems, so we only document here the unix version, but for the other 10%, there is also a version for windows"
<\sh> -EGETTINGMADATCOMBOTS
<slytherin> apachelogger: Anything apart from that? :-)
<apachelogger> slytherin: I'm going to take a deeper look in some minutes, but that's what I noticed so far
<slytherin> apachelogger: Ok. I will check comments tomorrow morning my time.
<apachelogger> k
<jcastro> LaserJock: ping a ling
<LaserJock> jcastro: yo yo wassssap?
<jcastro> you still do all those scientific/.edu-type apps right?
<LaserJock> kinda sorta
<LaserJock> what's up?
<jcastro> I'm looking to reach out to some of those upstreams
<jcastro> specifically gnu R and octave are on my list, know any of them perchance?
<LaserJock> no actually
<jcastro> k
<LaserJock> I've not really needed the those apps
<LaserJock> but I'm going to try to get at least octave into Main I think for Hardy
<LaserJock> so having good contact upstream will be good
<jcastro> you have to waste lots of money on matlab before you realize how awesome they are
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> my kind of science doesn't often need that
<jcastro> cool, let's tag-team the octave people when the time comes then
<LaserJock> but my uni has Maple, Matlab, Mathematic freely available so I haven't really had a chance to dig into R and octave
<jcastro> yeah
<LaserJock> jcastro: how about KDE Edu?
<jcastro> unfamiliar with that
<jcastro> should I be?
 * jcastro adds it to the list
<LaserJock> jcastro: well, it's only like the biggest suite of edu software out there ;-)
<zul> wheee...i just got laid off
<LaserJock> zul: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
<zul> bad thing/good thing, kind of new it was coming for a while
<LaserJock> jcastro: I actually know a couple people in KDE Edu, and there's some history there with Edubuntu (good and bad)
<zul> besides i think half of the company is gone today
<LaserJock> nice :/
<jcastro> LaserJock: cool, got a point of contact or someone you can intro me to?
<LaserJock> jcastro: Anne-Marie Mahfouf is sort of the head of the project
<LaserJock> jcastro: she seems to be fairly interested in making sure Edubuntu ships KDE Edu ;-)
<jcastro> LaserJock: oh, duh, I think I met her at fosscamp
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> jcastro: and then I work some with Carsten Niehaus who is the Kalzium author
<LaserJock> his app is one of the "killer apps" of Linux in education
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> are either of them MOTUs?
<LaserJock> not at all
<LaserJock> in fact i think Carsten left Kubuntu as a user for openSUSE because of some data-eating bug in OO.o that didn't get fixed for 6months+
<LaserJock> but they're all closet *buntu users ;-)
<jcastro> wait, ooo isn't supposed to eat your data?
<LaserJock> apparently
<joejaxx> :)
<LaserJock> jcastro: scientists get a bit upset when there thesis or research paper  gets eaten
<\sh> LaserJock, carsten left kubuntu?
<LaserJock> \sh: left using it, not sure if he "came back" yet or not
<Hobbsee> people_leaving_kubuntu++ :(
<LaserJock> it was around Feisty when I talked to him
<LaserJock> he said he really liked Kubuntu, but openSUSE didn't eat his data so he didn't have much choice
<jcastro> LaserJock: sounds like he needs some latex in his life with some vim.
<lucas> wait, scientists use OO.o ?
<LaserJock> jcastro: yes yes
<LaserJock> lucas: lots yes
<nxvl_work> imbrandon: did i have already a new task?
<\sh> LaserJock, well..I just have a user who switched to OSuse 10.3 because ubuntu wasn't able to run with his his graphic card since gutsy...in feisty it was working :( and opensuse 10.3 worked oob
<LaserJock> my labmate uses MS Office for pretty much everything
<lucas> LaserJock: computer scientists don't
<LaserJock> I do a majority of my data analysis in Excel ... ewww
<LaserJock> lucas: "real" scientists ;-)
 * \sh rights documentation in OOffice and converts them into PDF...
<lucas> real scientists should use latex :P
 * Hobbsee wonders what the OO.O bug was
<\sh> Hobbsee, CVE-0666-0815 -> OO.O eats data of scientist...XSS Exploit -> reading MS windows word documents forces OO.O to eat the rest ,-)
<\sh> ubotu: if you can't find it, find yourself another job, mr. anderson, do I make myself clear? -> yes, mr. bla
<LaserJock> lucas: I do, but I"m a dying breed
<LaserJock> lucas: I'm the last "programmer" in my group, everybody just wants to buy programs to do things for them these days :/
 * \sh has a drinking problem, he drinks, he get drunk, he falls over the problem
<Hobbsee> \sh: :)
<apachelogger> -.-
<MenZa> lucas, anyone who honestly can't be bothered to fiddle with design elements should use late
<MenZa> +x
<nxvl_work> con someone take a look on LP: #165030 please
<geser> bug #165030
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
<nxvl_work> need to go
<nxvl_work> bbl
<dsop> hi, i uploaded a package to revu using dput, but it i cannot see it on revu.tauware.de
<bluekuja> dsop, you should wait a bit until it gets published
<bluekuja> dsop, how long ago did you pushed it?
<dsop> bluekuja: hmm 4 hours?
<bluekuja> dsop, strange...what's the package name?
<dsop> gcutils_0.0.2
<bluekuja> dsop, it has been rejected
<bluekuja> dsop, uploads/rejected/gcutils_0.0.2-1_source.changes
<bluekuja> dsop, actually I see only a .dsc and a tar.gz
<bluekuja> dsop, is it native?
<bluekuja> dsop, anyway it seems you did something wrong, maybe your key is not registered correctly
<dsop> k, can you register my key? i allready have a launchpad account and a key submited
<bluekuja> dsop, LP id?
<dsop> https://launchpad.net/~sn-
<dsop> bluekuja: thank you very much
<bluekuja> dsop, np, you joined the contributors for packages 5 hours ago
<bluekuja> dsop, so I guess a keyring resync will fix your problem...let me do it
<bluekuja> dsop, resyncing...
<bluekuja> will ping you when done
<bluekuja> dsop, done
<bluekuja> try now
<dsop> thanks a lot, i found some errors, i'll try to fix them before.
<bluekuja> dsop, ok :)
<bluekuja> dsop, let me know if you need something else
<no0tic> hi, compiz depends on compiz-gnome on kubuntu too, it should depend on compiz-kde, I think
<pochu> no0tic: file a bug requesting a depends: compiz-gnome | compiz-kde
<somerville32> Hey, anyone good with Perl here?
<somerville32> (packaging)
<ScottK> Perl, no.  I've packaged some of it though.  What's the question?
<no0tic> pochu, ok
<somerville32> ScottK, Well, I'm packaging file_basedir and when it builds it loops asking for my geographical location
<ScottK> Odd.
<somerville32> The old version built because it didn't use Module::Build (which generates this magic script)
<ScottK> Ah.  I've packaged stuff that used Module::Build and not had that particular fun before.
<somerville32> If there isn't some magic way of dealing with this, than all our cpan modules are going to break since they're migrating to it.
<ScottK> Right, well I'm pretty sure it's not "normal" for that to happen.
<somerville32> Is there any way I can pass the script the correcct input at the correct question?
<maiatoday> anybody able to answer some noob questions about rules for a python package?
<oly-> i would also be intrested in info on python packages,
<geser> maiatoday: just ask, if somebody can help you (and is around) he/she will answer you
<oly-> i have made a deb from a python program, but not sure what to do with it, want it to end up in ubuntu eventually so need to make sure its okay for that
<oly-> if i have missed anything out, or have done anything wrong with it
<maiatoday> k, I have most of package files in debian sorted but the rules are confusing me. As I understand executable scripts go into /usr/bin but there are lots of python modules do they also go into into /usr/bin
<maiatoday> then there is an xml file where does it go
<maiatoday> also if I do all of this the paths in the original source will be wrong so it probably needs changes to work
<azeem> maiatoday: python modules are handled by python policy
<ScottK> maiatoday: For Python modules, use Python Support or Python Central and they will do the right thing.
<azeem> xml files should probably go to /usr/share
<azeem> maiatoday: consider reading the FhS
<maiatoday> I have pdf for fhs
<oly-> i can give a link to a deb, if anyone is willing to take a look, and tell me everything i have done wrong :p
<ScottK> oly-: The best thing is to upload the source package to REVU.
<geser> !REVU | oly-
<ubotu> oly-: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<oly-> source package you mean the deb ?
<geser> oly-: the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz
<oly-> um, i have not got any of them
<geser> the deb is the resulting binary package
<geser> oly-: how did you build the deb file?
<oly-> um made up the structure of folders i needed, and the debian folder, then placed all files in appropriate folders and ran dpkg-build -b folder
<oly-> the packages work because i set up a repository locally to test them
<oly-> also made a control and install script and copyright file
<oly-> do i need those other files, and how do you go about making them ?
<geser> oly-: you should read the packaging guide for how to package proper
<geser> !packaging guide | oly-
<ubotu> oly-: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<oly-> well that guide assumes you have .dsc orig.tar.gz and diff.gz files
<oly-> and i dont, i did actually follow a lot of that,
<oly-> thats how i made the control files and chagelogs and the like
<oly-> i guess orig.tar.gz is just a tar of all the files, so i can just compress the folder structure, but what are the other files ?
<oly-> and how do i make them
<oly-> sorry if this seems basic, but i am very new to all this :/
<oly-> i guess best thing is just to upload to revu and see what people say
<somerville32> oly-, What are you packaging?
<somerville32> And the *orig.tar.gz tarball is the original tarball downloaded untouched
<oly-> well there is no original tarball unless i make one, and its a python program
<oly-> and its a web based management console,
<somerville32> How did you download it then?
<somerville32> File by file?
<oly-> bzr branch :p
<oly-> its a program i have written by the way
<geser> oly-: you need a tar.gz if you want it in Ubuntu
<somerville32> What is it's license?
<somerville32> *its
<oly-> okay, well thats easy i will just make a tar.gz file
<oly-> its gpl, with an exception for openssl
<oly-> do i need these as well .dsc, .diff.gz to get it into ubuntu, because i do not know what they are
<mdomsch> oly-, you might look at how I packaged firmware-tools
<mdomsch> git tree at http://linux.dell.com/git/firmware-tools.git/
<mdomsch> it uses python setuptools too
<oly-> okay, will see if it helps
<geser> oly-: if you have done the packaging right you get the .dsc and .diff.gz when you call dpkg-buildpackage -S
<mdomsch> make tarball; make deb DIST=hardy; make sdeb DIST=hardy
<mdomsch> the 'make sdeb' step is really dpkg-buildpackage -S
<oly-> oh right and because i used dpkg -b to make it i did not
<ScottK> twitch
<somerville32> What package contains Module::Build?
<ScottK> somerville32: libmoldule-build=perl
<ScottK> That'd be module of course.
<ScottK> Urgh.  Can't type at all today
 * ScottK tries again
<ScottK> libmodule-build-perl
<ScottK> Better.
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: desktop-multiplier!!
<somerville32> Woot
<somerville32> I did it :]
 * somerville32 rocks.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah
<Burgundavia> I am shocked
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: the 1-week packaging job that will never die :-)
<imbrandon> mmm coolaid
<imbrandon> moins Burgundavia LaserJock somerville32 ScottK
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: ask for more money
<ScottK> heya imbrandon
<ScottK> somerville32: What'd you have to do?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: maybe I should :-)
<\sh> grmpf....
<\sh> I'm really sick and tired of this discussion...set it to invalid bug #157099
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157099 in gstreamer "Automatic installation of DVD CSS support" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157099
<somerville32> ScottK, It turns out it was trying to download libmoodule-build-perl its self.
<ScottK> somerville32: Ah.  That's never good.
<LaserJock> \sh: then don't read it :-)
<\sh> LaserJock, lol...what can I do, that LP is sending me this...
 * \sh 's not even subscribed to gstreamer
<apachelogger> intrusive LP
<imbrandon> apachelogger: finaly going for MOTU :)
<\sh> anyways...as long there is noone who can pay a lawyer to make this once and for all clear, invalid
<\sh> harhar...apachelogger for motu...come on and cheer
<\sh> ^^
<ScottK> \sh: Where's your application?
<\sh> headline: amarok replaces rhythmbox in gnome? :)
<imbrandon> hahaha
<\sh> ScottK, I'm not ready yet :)
<apachelogger> imbrandon: haha, finally after years
<apachelogger> \sh: oh, ah, don't tell anyone!
<apachelogger> that's our secret master plan
<ScottK> IIRC pitti did Hobsee's core-dev application.  Maybe I should do one for \sh for MOTU.
<LaserJock> \sh: ewwww, we don't need Amarok in gnome thank you ;-)
<Burgundavia> \sh: lets do that. I like lots of tabs. Especially sideways ones that don't have the full text on them
<Burgundavia> after that, we can replace Nautilus with upstream's Konqueror, all the features somebody will ever need!
<\sh> Burgundavia, you know that rhythmbox is not able to deal with .m3u files? not those ones from jamendo? :)
<Burgundavia> yes it is
<Burgundavia> I use Jamendo all the time
<\sh> Burgundavia, s/konqueror/dolphin/
<\sh> Burgundavia, not working for me
<\sh> Burgundavia, I know that shoutcast is working
 * apachelogger notes that rythmbox is not working for a lot of people
<apachelogger> not even for me
<\sh> apachelogger, not true
<\sh> apachelogger, most of the times it's working
<apachelogger> kinda :P
<oly-> quick question do i need a debian/rules files for a python program seeing that nothing needs to be built
 * \sh is a pragmatic user..and developer..use the source which is working for yourself
<\sh> oly-, if you need a debian package, yeah
<apachelogger> maybe everyone who told me just got the wrong approach of using it
<LaserJock> I really like rythmbox, it's done everything I need it to do. I guess I'm just one of those special people ;-)
<oly-> is there an example i can use to see what is needed in it for a python program
<\sh> LaserJock, the jamendo plugin doesn't support "login" into jamendo...
<apachelogger> LaserJock: I'd rather say the ones for whom it's not working are special :P
<apachelogger> special and strange
<somerville32> oly-, catfish
<somerville32> !catfish
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about catfish - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<somerville32> !info catfish
<ubotu> catfish: A file search tool that support several different engines. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 11 kB, installed size 144 kB
<oly-> thxs
<\sh> oly-, apt-cache search ^python- |less just grep one of it
<\sh> or that what apachelogger said..he knows more then me
 * apachelogger turns out to be a redirect to \sh
<apachelogger> I think we are looped here
<\sh> apachelogger, next linuxtag...you will drink a lot more beer ,-)
<apachelogger> I might not be there
<apachelogger> \sh: Abi is around that very time of the year :|
<\sh> apachelogger, ah...? you will.....the force will be with me
 * Nightrose is with \sh here - apachelogger you have to
<LaserJock> \sh: ah, well maybe that's my problem, i don't use any plugins and I don't listen to any music form the net
<oly-> are you sure rules is required, that catfish one does not contain one
<apachelogger> \sh: oh, well, not if I'm a motu by then :P
<\sh> apachelogger, ok..if you are not a motu by then, you'll have to come :)
<apachelogger> aye
<somerville32> oldOfcoruse it contains a rules file
<somerville32> erm
<apachelogger> oly-: +++ catfish-0.3/debian/rules
<somerville32> oly-, Ofcourse it contains a rules file. How would it get installed?
<\sh> apachelogger, as  said, for amarok 2.0 there is only one demo-song available ,) http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/7505/
<oly-> it has debian/control debian/md5sums debian/postinst debian/postrm debian/prerm and thats it, does not even have changelog which i though was required
<somerville32> I packaged it
<somerville32> and I'm sure there is debian/rules and debian/changelog
 * apachelogger tells Nightrose to sell \sh @ ebay
<oly-> http://ubuntu2.cica.es/ubuntu/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/catfish/catfish_0.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<oly-> thats where i got it from
<apachelogger> Oo
<apachelogger> omg
<\sh> apachelogger, CC licencsed please
<somerville32> oly-, Thats the binary package
<apachelogger> oly-: the .deb is the binary
<somerville32> oly-, You need the source package
<apachelogger> oly-: you have to check the sources
 * apachelogger notes redundancy and stops writing
<oly-> oh but its python surely source and binary are the same thing
<LaserJock> no
<geser> oly-: dget -x http://ubuntu2.cica.es/ubuntu/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/catfish/catfish_0.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
<apachelogger> oly-: package binary vs. package source
<apachelogger> vs. source
<somerville32> apt-get source catfish
<geser> oly-: dget is in devscripts
 * Nightrose goes to ebay and makes an auction to sell \sh :P
<apachelogger> package source includes a debian directory in compairison to source
<\sh> yeah....
<apachelogger> package binary is the binary created from package source
<\sh> CVE Callboy for sale
<apachelogger> Nightrose: use the money for getting a bugzilla dev afterwards
<Nightrose> haha - will do apachelogger - how much do you think we will get for \sh?
<apachelogger> hm, depends on wheter you sell him part by part of as a whole
<apachelogger> latter might be less (about 10 bucks I guess)
<Nightrose> hmm I think I will stick to whole here
<\sh> apachelogger, bah...you need a bugzilla guru? I need a new job? let's go, dude ,-)
<apachelogger> who wants a drinking nerd anyway
<ScottK> Did someone say drinking?
<apachelogger> \sh: talk to Nightrose, she knows the less important stuff I don't care about
<\sh> apachelogger, I'll tell you the very same sentence during linuxtag ,-)
<apachelogger> ScottK: ye want a beer as well?
 * ScottK prefers Scotch, but a beer will do.
<apachelogger> ScottK: join #amarok
<Nightrose> \sh: we need something for rokymotion to get hold of our todos - itÂ´s a mess currently
<apachelogger> hm
<\sh> Nightrose, whatever you need...give me a link...I'm a 36 year old hacker and I know something about QT ?! ;)
<ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks
<\sh> wahhhh....
<apachelogger> \sh: don't talk to Nightrose, she doesn't know what I'm talkin bout :P
<\sh> I'm older then nightrose and apachelogger
<apachelogger> \sh: we need a proper bug tracker
<apachelogger> that's all
<\sh> apachelogger, lol...use launchpad
<apachelogger> with release nomination and tagging and stuff
<Nightrose> apachelogger: did I miss something? :P
 * ScottK thinks \sh is a youngster
<\sh> apachelogger, you'll get emails about packages you don't now anything
<apachelogger> \sh: I'd rather avoid the discussion about switching :P
<LaserJock> \sh is probably as old as Nightrose and apachelogger combined :-)
<\sh> ScottK, *kick*
 * ScottK definitely.
<\sh> ScottK, I know that I'm much younger then norsetto or you
<LaserJock> pfft
<\sh> but much older then dholbach e.g. ,-)=
 * Nightrose knows that apachelogger and she combined = 42
<LaserJock> that's not saying much ;p
<ScottK> Heck, you're even younger than bddebian.
 * apachelogger notes that jpatrick is even younger :P
<\sh> -EFCK that's right
<LaserJock> well
<apachelogger> I actually feel rather old -.-
<LaserJock> jpatrick is usually younger than everybody
<apachelogger> very demotivating
<LaserJock> I just had a birthday
<jpatrick> apachelogger: not my fault
<\sh> hmm...I'm looking much younger then ogra
<LaserJock> now I'm more than 1/4 century old :(
<\sh> .oO(hopefully)=
<apachelogger> jpatrick: did anyone actually ever see you for real?
 * imbrandon turns 29 in a less than a month
<ScottK> LaserJock: Happy Birthday
 * apachelogger suspects jpatrick just claims to be the youngest
<LaserJock> \sh: you don't have to deal with running a distro by yourslef ;-)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: old fart ;-)
<jpatrick> apachelogger: hmm, you could ask the admin of kubuntu-es, we've met
<ScottK> have/choose
<imbrandon> lol
<apachelogger> jpatrick: he could be your alter ego
<\sh> LaserJock, oh...I know ogra in RL...so I know how he looked before and after edubuntu ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: don't worry, before long I'll be gummin' my food too
<imbrandon> hahahaha
<LaserJock> \sh: true
 * apachelogger notes to meet up with jpatrick @ next somewhat important event
<ogra> \sh, sadly true
<LaserJock> \sh: but ogra's so sexy ;-)
<jpatrick> apachelogger: when you pop by Spain, sure :)
<ScottK> imbrandon: Are you going to be in KC around Christmas?
 * ogra hugs LaserJock 
<imbrandon> ScottK: yup
<apachelogger> jpatrick: people speak spanish there, don't they?
<imbrandon> ScottK: just puttin up lights today
 * ajmitch hardly gets to meet anyone
 * LaserJock would love to have a pic of ogra when he arrived at UDS-Paris ;-)
<apachelogger> ajmitch: now that's a shame... why is that?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Maybe we can get together for lunch or something.  My family is coming out to visit my Dad.
<ajmitch> because I'm a very long way from everywhere
<\sh> LaserJock, he is :)
<jpatrick> apachelogger: they claim to, it's actually a mix of Flemish and South Indoneisan
<ScottK> ajmitch: except the sheep
<apachelogger> ajmitch: where are you located?
<\sh> LaserJock, but he was more sexy when he worrked for ISH during the time he introduced me to ubuntu :)
<ScottK> apachelogger: Small island very far south full of sheep.
<LaserJock> apachelogger: I nice little island in the middle of nowhere
<apachelogger> lol
<\sh> but /me has more crinkles then the last time ogra saw me
<ogra> LaserJock, probably elmo could draw it from the top of his head, i think he still has sleepless nights because of it :)
<slangasek> oh well, Flanders is just the Spanish Netherlands anyway
<ajmitch> and this is why I don't want to meet these people, they can't help but joke about it
<imbrandon> ScottK: cool, yea sounds good, got a pen ? i'll give you my # and you can ring me when you are arround town
<\sh> ogra, btw...did you sing during the jam session?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Sure. just /msg me.
<imbrandon> k
<LaserJock> ogra: I know I do ;-)
<\sh> ogra, oh and btw...a friend of mine is living neer kassel..so be prepared to have guest in the near future
<apachelogger> hm
<\sh> s/neer/near/
<apachelogger> ajmitch seems to be pretty much on the other side of the world
<\sh> apachelogger, well just a few miles from austria ,-)
<geser> apachelogger: ajmitch is on the opposite to spain
<\sh> ajmitch, still dunedin?
 * apachelogger thinks a UDS should be done there
<apachelogger> just think about... nerds hacking in the middle of a sheep flock
<\sh>  /msg sabdfl please sponsor apachelogger for new zealand, kthxbye
<\sh> \sh -> approeved
 * apachelogger gets a ticket
 * \sh can't be sponsored anymore for any UDS...too much alcohol involved
<\sh> oh ... where is my beer
<somerville32> \sh, they won't sponsor you? lol
 * apachelogger notes that the older \sh gets, the more he has to sleep, the less he can drink
<geser> \sh: there is a limit?
<\sh> apachelogger, wrong
<\sh> somerville32, tbh, I was sponsored, I don't need to work anymore in my sparetime ,-)
<\sh> geser, I thought every now and then...so every 2 years or so
<\sh> geser, I don't care..I had to read some specs, that was more then I could take
<ScottK> Be careful \sh.  Now they make you use Gobby.
<somerville32> I would love to go
 * geser too
<\sh> ScottK, they used gobby in 2005 already
<apachelogger> ah \sh should have a look at the licensing of ksquirrel
<ScottK> \sh: Ah, so it's a known horror then.
<\sh> ScottK, one of the apps I love
<\sh> ScottK, pkern is living next to me..I know him personally...:)
<ScottK> It's actually very good for what it does.
<\sh> ScottK, don't tell anybody that "undo" would be a cool function for gobby
<ScottK> Yes, I was actually poking fun at him and hoping he'd react.
<Nightrose> *lol*
 * Nightrose notes to bug pkern about undo in gobby when she meets him in 2 days
 * ScottK made an actual Gobby feature request after experiencing it at UDS.
<\sh> ScottK, I really have to say, he is young...I was surprised how young phillip was...and he needs really a applause for his work on gobby
<Nightrose> +1
 * ScottK agrees.
 * ScottK would just like if better if it were Kobby.
<apachelogger> ^_^
<\sh> ScottK, hmmm..obby -k or obby -g ?
 * imbrandon notes to self to reinstall kde ( vs fluxbox ) when ScottK gets in town :)
 * ScottK tends to like native KDE stuff better.
<ScottK> imbrandon: I'm not religious about it.  You should use what works for you.
<LaserJock> darn it, some days I really hate file systems
<ScottK> Just blame norsetto if it goes wrong.
<\sh> oh damn..if anyone wants to listen to a mixture of "I do trance but my name is jarre" please do http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/5172/
<norsetto> what did I do again?
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh i was/am one of the original kubuntu fanbois hehe ( after Rid*dell ofcourse ) :P
<\sh> LaserJock, -EUSEORACLEFS
<ScottK> norsetto: ;-)
<\sh> imbrandon, and amu and chris halls
<imbrandon> \sh: ewwww
<LaserJock> I have a nice 320GB external disk I'm using for backups
<ScottK> imbrandon: I've sort of guessed.
<\sh> imbrandon, very nice music...I have to say
<imbrandon> \sh: yea, thus the "one of" :)
<LaserJock> so today i took it to work with the bright idea of backing up all my research
<LaserJock> but the thing is ext3 and I have OS X
<ScottK> This doesn't sound good.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: osx should mount ext3 no problems
<LaserJock> so I'm able to read ok
<\sh> LaserJock, you can buy 2 500GB sata disks for 55 euros from me ;)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it doesn't unless you install this thing from sourceforge
<LaserJock> \sh: I don't have anything that'll run sata, sorry
<ScottK> ... install this thing from sourceforge...  That almost never ends well.
<apachelogger> \sh: oh, I think the combots managers might not like that :P
<\sh> LaserJock, well, you can switch to SAS with a converter..no prob ;)
<LaserJock> ScottK: well, it works so far ok in read-only
<\sh> apachelogger, sure they like it..it was presented on ebay
<apachelogger> lol
<LaserJock> but I can't exactly back up to a read-only disk
<apachelogger> talking about ebay
<apachelogger> Nightrose: what's the status on \sh's auction?
<ScottK> LaserJock: Can you just rsync to the box at home?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mount_ext2 -x /dev/disk0s3 /Volumes/Linux
<\sh> apachelogger, you can buy one of our servers for 2.3K euros...16x 500GB sata disks, 16GB ram, 2x dual core amd....you can compile more then canonical can compile in their DC...tested
<apachelogger> * DDS plugin is taken from KImageIO plugin from kdelibs 3.4.0 (which is under GPL)
<LaserJock> ScottK: might have to, but I have like 60GB+ of data
<Nightrose> apachelogger: had to postpone it since I really have to get this paper done - but how about I take pictures on thuersday of \sh? auctions with pictures always work better ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: mount it as ext2
<apachelogger> Nightrose: ya, k
<apachelogger> \sh: hrrhrr
<\sh> Nightrose, never...apachelogger wants to marry me then
<Nightrose> *lol*
<apachelogger> Oo
 * apachelogger is getting some doubts
<\sh> apachelogger, hrrhrr
 * apachelogger comes back
<apachelogger> I really doubt that
 * \sh was in bed with apachelogger...no joke no lie ,->
 * ScottK believes
 * Nightrose knows
<Nightrose> :P
 * apachelogger can't remember
<\sh> hihi
<\sh> pictures, there are always pictures hehehe
<apachelogger> hmm... pictures or it didn't happen
<LaserJock> imbrandon: that's not gonna blast anything away right, it's jut not using journaling?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: correct
<apachelogger> * DDS plugin is taken from KImageIO plugin from kdelibs 3.4.0 (which is under GPL)
<apachelogger> oh
 * \sh loves those opensource guys and gals
<apachelogger> now I doubt that ksquirrel is any reasonable
<apachelogger> why would someone copy a whole plugin from kdelibs if the app depends on kdelibs anyway?
<imbrandon> ignorance ?
<apachelogger> *shrug*
 * apachelogger official declares ksquirrel a big code mess
<\sh> apachelogger, I think gczessi has still some
<\sh> apachelogger, but this is really bad http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=28
<\sh> apachelogger, or this one http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=21
<apachelogger> meh, the one before is awful
<apachelogger> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=27
<apachelogger> \sh: that's just normal :P
<apachelogger> Nightrose: isn't it?
<Nightrose> it is
<Nightrose> I like this one: http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=27
<\sh> apachelogger, these were combots good times http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=1
<ScottK> apachelogger: You look insane enough in that picture that I'm reconsidering my position on MOTU for you ;-)
<ian_brasil> ola..my ppa lists deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ianlawrence/ubuntu hardy main for my sources.list .. main seems wrong to me
<apachelogger> Nightrose: yah, makes me look insane :P
<Nightrose> apachelogger: you are - so whatÂ´s the problem? :P
<apachelogger> -.-
<\sh> guys,
<ScottK> ian_brasil: PPA questions are best asked in #launchpad
<apachelogger> ScottK: all \sh's fault... he made me drink beer ;-)
<ian_brasil> ok
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it's still read-only :(
<LaserJock> ian_brasil: and main is right
<\sh> if you ever wanted to know who jono is, and how he looks like while he had some really heavy sexual opensource strike
<\sh> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=1&img=3
 * ScottK notes that dholbach appears to really be enjoying that
<Nightrose> ScottK: he was ;-)
<\sh> or that apachelogger is still using ubuntu as his favorite distro as amarok kde guy...please have a look here http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=1&img=8
<imbrandon> the one i have somewhere with jono boggling over 2 strippers in california is better
<somerville32> Can someone sponsor my upgrade? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-basedir-perl/+bug/172244
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed]
<imbrandon> :)
<\sh> imbrandon, pictures please ;)
<imbrandon> heh one sec
<apachelogger> right, ScottK, img=8 should make you reconsider your reconsideration ;-)
<ScottK> Nahh
<ScottK> somerville32: Any particular reason you did that 12 hours after someone else said they were working on it?
<\sh> but you have jono as well as a very nice son-in-law http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=2&img=13
<somerville32> ScottK, That comment wasn't there when I started last night
<\sh> mamarok is still loving him :)
<somerville32> ScottK, (Just started before I went to bed)
<somerville32> ScottK, And just noticed it now when I refreshed to add the attachment
<apachelogger> \sh: that would make him an amarok as well
<ScottK> somerville32: OK.
<apachelogger> or at least stepamarok
<\sh> apachelogger, bah...that's incest ,-)
<Nightrose> hmm jono = stepdadrok? I like that idea ;-)
<\sh> and the bad looks if you wear a debian shirt as a ubuntu dev....
<\sh> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=25
<\sh> from apachelogger and nightrose that is ,-)
<Nightrose> *lol* I didnÂ´t give you bad looks for that
<Nightrose> I even liked that shirt
<\sh> Nightrose, let's marry then ,-)
<Nightrose> haha
 * apachelogger objects on that
<apachelogger> no amarok marries anyone without my approval!
 * Nightrose notes that apachelogger looks a lot taller than her on that pic - is it really _that_ bad?
<\sh> apachelogger, you'll be the witness
<apachelogger> Nightrose: yep
<Nightrose> :(
<Nightrose> damn it
<Nightrose> ;-)
<apachelogger> small rose with big heart :)
<Nightrose> ahhhhhhhh *hug apachelogger*
<Nightrose> ;-)
 * \sh has the real opportunity to live in a and near country/countries where opensource has so many contributors and fans..thx
 * \sh hugs apachelogger and Nightrose and everyone else
 * Nightrose rehugs \sh :)
 * apachelogger hugs everyone + mantis
 * ScottK considers checking for diabetes (sugar level is very high in here).
<\sh> oh people check try^d (jamendo)
<\sh> the name of the album is "listen"
<\sh> verynice
<Nightrose> \sh: yea try^d is awesome
<\sh> Nightrose, it is really...one of the good stuff on jamendo
<Nightrose> jep - check out systyle (sp?)
<apachelogger> woah
 * apachelogger is listening to Linstru by SystylÃ© on Loin d'en naÃ®tre [Amarok]
<apachelogger> french ska ftw!
<somerville32> :]
 * somerville32 is listening to "silence by nothing"
<\sh> who was singing "Waltzing Matilda"?
<alvinc> "Far from being born", is that what that means?
<\sh> what was the guys name
<apachelogger> somerville32: that sounds kinda boring -.-
<apachelogger> alvinc: something like that
<alvinc> Hm.  I'm trying to grasp the connotation.  lol
 * somerville32 is now listening to Britteny Spears.
<apachelogger> Oo
<alvinc> o_O
 * apachelogger skanks for a cigarette
<somerville32> I always had a fantasy that geeks didn't smoke, lol
 * TheMuso would rather listen to classical music than Britney... eeew
<somerville32> Her new song is that bad.
<somerville32> But I can't say I'm a fan of her
<alvinc> geeks not smoke?  um.......
<alvinc> lol
<somerville32> I like James Blunt
<TheMuso> She can't sing. Her music has always sucked. Enough said.
<\sh> ah...tom waits
 * Nightrose is listening to Over The Rainbow by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole on Compilation [Amarok]
<\sh> on "Small Change"
 * imbrandon puts on some britney for TheMuso 
 * ajmitch wonders why people would think that geeks don't smoke
 * _MMA_ , at 1st glance, thought it went like: "somerville32: I like James Blunt" "TheMuso: She can't sing. Her music has always sucked. Enough said." lol :D
 * TheMuso puts on a pair of headphones with some Randy Waldman Trio.
<alvinc> :wonders the same
<slangasek> somerville32: there are German geeks
<ajmitch> they couldn't have seen the inevitable smokers' BOF at UDS :)
<TheMuso> _MMA_: lol
 * somerville32 does the Brittany teeny-bop.
<imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe
<nenolod> apachelogger, libprojectm1 in hardy and libvisual-projectm will eventually be in hardy too. let me know if you need anything else for it to work in amarok :P
<\sh> ajmitch, the smokers bof at UBZ was nice
 * imbrandon smokes like a freighttrain
<somerville32> I'm allergic
 * nenolod doesn't smoke
<slangasek> somerville32: the brittany spaniel teeny-bop?
 * ScottK has never smoked, but isn't sure why.
<nenolod> cigarettes anyway
<nenolod> :P
 * alvinc smokes quite a bit
<somerville32> I've never smoked anything, I have a fear.
<alvinc> of?  cancer?
 * ScottK has been on fire (a little) so has smoked in that sense.
<\sh> http://solosong.net/traubert.html andblow your speakers
<somerville32> I'm on fire all the time :P
<somerville32> <-- is hawt.
<somerville32> alvinc, Diminished lung capacity? I dunno. I just find smoking scary, lol.
<alvinc> somerville32:  I find that really kind of fascinating.  You are French?
<somerville32> English
<zul> smoking is bad mmmmkay drugs are bad mmmmkey
<somerville32> lol
<alvinc> lol
 * ScottK was showing my (then) three year old how to like the gas grill out back.  It took a long time to get lit as a result.  When it finally lit and the fireball passed, /me had neither arm hair, nor some of his eyebrows and there was an 'interesting' smell.
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> ScottK, You should have done Cadets as a kid :P
<alvinc> oh, burning human parts is really stinky
<oly-> can anyone tell me what this means, dpkg-source: error: control file must have at least one binary package part ???
 * ScottK also didn't have to worry about her playing with the grill.
 * nenolod is glad he doesn't have kids ;p
<alvinc> somerville32:  Being English, it's a good thing for you, I think.  It's far too expensive a habit there.  :-)
<ScottK> oly-: It means you don't define a binary package in debian/rules and you need to.
<somerville32> alvinc, I rather spend my money on my expensive high speed internet, haha
<slangasek> dying of lung cancer is expensive anywhere kthxbi ;)
<apachelogger> nenolod: wohoo, well, I need a fix for the white window after start issue ;-)
<oly-> okay, thxs bit misleading
<somerville32> lol
<alvinc> dying of anything is actually rather cheap.  fighting against it is expensive.  :)
<slangasek> alvinc: anything that costs me the rest of my natural life is expensive
<ajmitch> ScottK: you mean debian/control, right?
<ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
<nenolod> he could be using cdbs ;)
<ScottK> oly-: Sorry - debian/control
<ajmitch> nenolod: which wouldn't really make much difference
<somerville32> ScottK, Are you looking at bug #172244 or did you just peak at it?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
<nenolod> ajmitch, yeah i know, but that was a joke based on the fact that cdbs can edit debian/control if you set it up to.
<ScottK> somerville32: I just peaked.  I'm on strike from reviewing.
<somerville32> ScottK, I'll give you a cookie :(
 * ScottK is mostly here for the social aspects and to have stuff to complain about.
<nenolod> ScottK, complaining about stuff is always good ;)
 * somerville32 turns around to face ajmitch
<Kmos> it's better to have the icon in .png ?
<oly-> um, where do i specify the binary package ?? under Package: line ?
<Kmos> and at .desktop Icon=name , don't mention the extension, right ?
<pochu> Kmos: yup for extension
<ScottK> oly-: Please pastebin your debian/contro
<ScottK> l
<pochu> Kmos: for icon, better .png *and* .svg :-)
<Kmos> pochu: nice..
<Kmos> and don't put the extension..
<Kmos> i checked firefox.desktop and it has extension, lol
<apachelogger> Oo
<oly-> okay link is http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m16f6624f
 * ScottK looks
<somerville32> LaserJock, Will you sponsor lp #172244 ?
<nenolod> oly-, you're missing a binary package declaration
<ScottK> oly-: See http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m747e780f for a complete example
<somerville32> Is lp dead?
<nenolod> oly-, source packages don't have a Description:
<nenolod> ScottK, that's a pretty good example
<oly-> thanks :)
<ScottK> nenolod: Thanks.
<nenolod> 'cept Homepage: should be moved from description to Source: package!
<ScottK> Yes.  That didn't exist yet when I did that one.
<LaserJock> bug #172244
<nenolod> ScottK, i figured. i was just being a pedant ;)
<apachelogger> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m2d4f35b9
<ScottK> nenolod: It's a good thing to mention.
<apachelogger> better one :P
<\sh> has anyone "tom traubert's blues" by tom waits ?
<\sh> the bloddyfcks want to have 1.49 euros for this song :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: I didn't know we had a MOTU named desk. Thankyou Planet.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, isn't it wonderful
<ScottK> apachelogger: Yes.  It's already updated in svn (just not uploaded): http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-modules/packages/pyspf/trunk/debian/control?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: that one is actually dholbach's doing
 * ajmitch doesn't see ponies
<Fujitsu> Yay, /bugs/XXX on edge is broken.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: No worries.  I'm sure it'll be fixed just fine in no time at all.
 * ajmitch drinks
<ScottK> ponies???
<nenolod> ponies.
<ScottK> hmmmm, pony...
<LaserJock> ajmitch: dude, I've got so much on my plate today :(
<nenolod> ponies and unicorns, infact.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll just keep on drinking then :)
<\sh> bah....
<\sh> amazon sucks
<oly-> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3789c22e
<oly-> does that look more correct ?
<nenolod> Depends: is wrong
<\sh> kissology 1978 - 1991 -> 69,89 euro
<oly-> i need ${python:Depends}, do i nenolod ?
<nenolod> oly-: Depends: ${source:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, python-pyopenssl (>= 0.6)
<zul> for a kiss album? sounds about right since gene simmons is a money grubbing whore
<ScottK> oly-: Is it an application or a Python module?
<oly-> application
<ScottK> OK.
<nenolod> oly-, Xs-Vcs-Svn: should only be set if it's maintained in a subversion repo
<ScottK> oly-: Also you don't need the replaces.
<nenolod> oly-, otherwise, use XS-Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~usmteam/usm/usm
<ScottK> Unless it actually replaces something.
<nenolod> yes. please remove the Replaces:
<PhreeStyle-home> norsetto: hey, you still around?
<oly-> okay so http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3fedf8f2
<nenolod> Description is wrong
<nenolod> Description's first line should be a synopsis
<nenolod> Description: Ubuntu Server Manager core
<nenolod>  blurb
<nenolod> is how it should be.
<oly-> okay, sorted that anything else look out of place
<nenolod> btw, there's probably problems with calling it Ubuntu Server Manager (people may think it's an official product of Canonical and/or Ubuntu foundation)
<norsetto> PhreeStyle-home: heya, I'm indeed
<nenolod> so you might want to clarify somehow that it's not involved with the above
<oly-> oh right, clarify it in the description you mean ?
<nenolod> yes, and probably on website too.
<oly-> okay, good point
<\sh> good night folks...cu later
<nenolod> bye \sh
<somerville32> LaserJock, Can you take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-basedir-perl/+bug/172244 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed]
<somerville32> What new build system?
<somerville32> It builds mine on my box. I think he is using Debian maybe?
<LaserJock> somerville32: why am I looking at this? :-)
<somerville32> LaserJock, Because I want a sponsor? :P
<StevenHarperUK> Any MOTU fancy picking up https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/165281 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165281 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.1.16-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Did you get links to getting into Debian yesterday?
<joejaxx> Hello Everyone :)
<somerville32> Hi joejaxx
<ScottK> Hello joejaxx
<joejaxx> somerville32: :O
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: no,I havnt done that yet, but the main problem is that Truecrypt is'nt built for Debain , there is only a Ubuntu DEB
<joejaxx> hello somerville32 ScottK :)
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Right, but how hard would it be to build it for Debian instead?
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: TrueCrypt or Easy Crypt?
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam and http://python-apps.alioth.debian.org/policy.html
<ScottK> I guess I was thinking easycrypt
<StevenHarperUK> ScottK: mines a python application not a Module : That second link is for Modules
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: It talks about the applications team too (just didn't rename the page)
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: don't get me wrong I want to get it onto Debian too
<ScottK> Both the apps and modules team use the same IRC channel and are mostly the same people.
<somerville32> LaserJock, :)
<ScottK> Since you've got a package that was OK in Ubuntu, it should be pretty easy to get it accepted in Debian.
<StevenHarperUK> Scottk: Im a bit drunk now, ill bookmark and check back another night
<ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Sounds like a good plan.
<LaserJock> somerville32: I'm swamped, sorry :(
<somerville32> joejaxx, Are you MOTU?
<somerville32> Where is Persia when you need her?
<ScottK> somerville32: Him
<joejaxx> somerville32: nope i am not
<joejaxx> somerville32: lol why does everyone ask me that :P
 * somerville32 wants a sponsor.
<somerville32> :)
<joejaxx> lol :)
<joejaxx> become a motu! beat me to it ;)
<somerville32> Someday :]
<ScottK> somerville32: TheMuso was active in the last hour.  Maybe he's still awake.
<somerville32> TheMuso, poke
<joejaxx> somerville32: lol look at your https://edge.launchpad.net/~cody-somerville/+packages
<joejaxx> somerville32: and then look at mine
<joejaxx> somerville32: yours has more :P
<joejaxx> somerville32: so you are beating me
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> somerville32: i do not do enough packaging to become a motu :P
<somerville32> whats your lp page?
<joejaxx> somerville32: ~joejaxx
<joejaxx> plus you have history all the way back to dapper
<joejaxx> and edgy
<somerville32> joejaxx, You have more uploads than me
<joejaxx> somerville32: i do not think so
<somerville32> You have 17, I have 16
<somerville32> Although two of my uploads aren't counted
<joejaxx> ???
<somerville32> Explain ??? :P
<joejaxx> i do not know
<joejaxx> maybe someone accepted a random bug/merge i did
<joejaxx> last time i looked it was not that many at all
<joejaxx> for example
<joejaxx> why is flwm on there?
<joejaxx> i do not see my name on the changelog
<joejaxx> and i do not remember touching that package either
<joejaxx> lol
<joejaxx> nor wmifs
<joejaxx> somerville32: so alot of those do not count lol :P
<zul> must go feed the little fart machine
<keescook> Fujitsu: oh!  sorry, I didn't understand the question.  yeah, I need to figure out how to migrate the revision history.
<LaserJock> zul: if you stop feeding him does he stop farting?
<joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
<zul> LaserJock: i think so but he probably stops living as well
<ScottK> LaserJock: They cry though and after a while it gets pitful and weak.
<LaserJock> zul: one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of things?
<ScottK> zul: You're just going to have to decide on your priorities.
<LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes! this thing must be USB1
<ScottK> LaserJock: rsync would've been faster.
<LaserJock> I got my USB external drive hooked up to an old Linux box in the next room, nfs mounted to my OS X machine
<ScottK> Ah.
<LaserJock> and right now it says it's gonna take 7hrs to transfer 9GB
<LaserJock> I think it must be the write speed over USB that's bottlenecking
<LaserJock> cause the network is 10MB/s
<ScottK> somerville32: You ought to think about Debian Python Application Packaging Team too.
<somerville32> ScottK, Think about joining them?
<ScottK> somerville32: Yes and get pyneighborhood in Debian.
<alvinc> LaserJock:  if you have sysstat installed, you can do the "iostat -xtc" thing to see the wait times on your UDB drive
<alvinc> ^UDB^USB
<pochu> StevenK: could you please review blueyed's merge for bug 156210?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156210 in virtualbox-ose "Please update Virtualbox to 1.5.2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156210
<somerville32> ScottK, PyNeighborhood isn't maintained anymore
<ScottK> somerville32: Ah.  OK.
<somerville32> ScottK, Why do you think I should join the DPAPT?
<ScottK> somerville32: I saw you had packaged a Python application for Ubuntu and thought it'd be good to get it into Debian too.
<ScottK> In general, I think it's better to try and push things up into Debian where we can and with Python stuff it's easy because of the teams.
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> I've in the process of pushing Catfish up
<ScottK> OK.  That's not Python is it?
<somerville32> It is.
<LaserJock> alvinc: interesting, what am I looking for?
<TheMuso> somerville32: Leave me a message. I'm about to head out.
<somerville32> TheMuso, I wanted a sponsor
<LaserJock> alvinc: await is 22.82 but I have no idea what that means
<ScottK> somerville32: Then DPAPT may be for you.
<somerville32> :]
<ScottK> somerville32: It'll be far easier to get sponsored there than in debian-mentors.
 * somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Can anyone please sponsor bug #172244 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
<blueyed> pochu, StevenK: the merge for virtualbox-ose is "already" outdated. unstable has 2-2 (the merge was for 2).
<pochu> Ouch.
<PhreeStyle-home> what does fakesync do?
<PhreeStyle-home> ScottK: excuse me, do you know what a fakesync is?
<LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: it's a way of syncing a package
<LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: but not via the normal process
<LaserJock> normally we request the Ubuntu archive admins to sync a package
<LaserJock> but if for some reason that's not able to happen we can manually upload a synced package
<PhreeStyle-home> oh, thanks laser
<LaserJock> no problem
<stgraber> Does any one have a quick way to fix a FTBFS caused by this :
<stgraber> /usr/bin/ld: dsa_key.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
<stgraber> dsa_key.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
<PhreeStyle-home> do we need to change the maintainer for that
<stgraber> happens on amd64 not i386 (of course ...)
<ScottK> PhreeStyle-home: No
<PhreeStyle-home> thanks
<LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: I think not, but we shouldn't really be doing fakesyncs either :-)
<PhreeStyle-home> i would hope not :)
<geser> stgraber: rebuild with -fPIC
<somerville32> geser, Will you sponsor bug #172244 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
<somerville32> Is it possible to build something using a local deb?
<mok0> Is there a way to choose an LVM filesystem when installing ubuntu?
<somerville32> Hey jdong :]
<jdong> yo yo yo, how are you doing? :)
<geser> somerville32: any reason to not wait on Debian?
<somerville32> geser, because this package is holding up other packages?
<somerville32> geser, And then once debian does it, we simply sync
<LaserJock> mok0: yep, though perhaps only on the Alt disk
<mok0> Ah, OK, the alt disk. Never thought of that. I'll try it..
<somerville32> jdong, I was going to ask you to sponsor but maybe geser will :]
<mok0> LaserJock: I think it comes up as defauil when installing debian
<jdong> somerville32: whee then I can go back to reading about the endoplasmic reticulum!
<geser> somerville32: I'm going to bed soon, so jdong can sponsor it if he has time
<somerville32> jdong, Grade 10 science? :P
<somerville32> jdong, Oh, come sponsor!
<mok0> Just got an HP 380 G5 server, will install it tomorrow... :-P
<jdong> somerville32: haha no, MIT 7.012 :)
 * somerville32 hugs jdong 
<jdong> somerville32: you know, reading a genetic sequence and figuring out which basepairs bind to the ER membrane :)
<LaserJock> somerville32: which is about as hard as 10th grade science ;-)
<superm1_> jdong, could i steal you for a moment for an ack on a backport?
<jdong> superm1_: yeah go ahead
<jdong> I can multitask :)
<superm1_> jdong, bug 165310
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165310 in gutsy-backports "mythbuntu-lirc-generator backport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165310
<jdong> superm1_: yeah, that looks good for backporting
<superm1_> jdong, cool thx
<somerville32> jdong, I'm back
<somerville32> jdong, So you'll sponsor :)
<jdong> somerville32: it might cost you some favors ;-)
<somerville32> jdong, No problem :)
<jdong> haha
<somerville32> jdong, Will this be your first sponsor?
<jdong> somerville32: yeah, it would :)
<jdong> somerville32: hence me stumbling through all the steps :)
<somerville32> jdong, Sweet. We're partnered for life now.
<jdong> O_o
 * jdong gives somerville32 a platonic hug...
<somerville32> :D
<superm1_> oooo exciting
 * somerville32 chants for jdong 
<ScottK> Good thing jdong lives in Massachusetts.
 * jdong checks his door lock
<jdong> doesn't help that my rev-dns often resolves to my building and room numbers :)
<somerville32> :)
<mok0> HIya ScottK
<ScottK> Heya mok0
<ScottK> mok0: Got merges all figured out?
<mok0> ScottK: uh yes I am working on a few
<ScottK> mok0: Good.  That'll be helpful for seeing lots of different packaging situations.
<mok0> ScottK:  Yes, it's interesting. Not impressive, though :-)
<ScottK> It's good work to be doing for Ubuntu.  There are never enough people to do them all.
<mok0> ScottK: Some of those Debian packages would not have gotten in under the strict eyes of the MOTU
 * jdong finds typo in interdiff wiki page :)
<jdong> $ combinediff -z packagename_newversion-newrevision.interdiff.gz packagename_version-revision.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > packagename_newversion-newrevision.diff.gz
<jdong> ^^ arguments flipped
<ScottK> Yes and the reverse is also true.  It helps to think of Debian as a set of individuals rather than a collective and their views and skills vary widely.
<ScottK> and/as
<ScottK> (the last one)
<lifeless> resistance is futile?
<lifeless>            ^not
<mok0> ScottK: makes sense...
<mok0> ScottK: Are you a DD as well?
<ScottK> That has advantages and disadvantages just as the Ubuntu team approach does.
<ScottK> mok0: Not yet.
<ScottK> The Debian New Maintainer process isn't exactly quick.
<slangasek> haha
<mok0> ScottK: :-)
<mok0> ScottK: You'll get there, I'm sure. Have you got some good contacts?
<jdong> *grumble* stupid interdiff
<ScottK> That and I have a full time job, a wife, and three children, so finding time to work on it isn't easy either.
<mok0> ScottK: hehe
<ScottK> mok0: Yes.  I've pushed all the new packages I did for Ubuntu into Debian and made friends that way.
<ScottK> Also there are many people here who are good Debian contacts.
<mok0> ScottK: OK? Who's that?
<ScottK> There are several.  slangasek is one (his laugh wasnt' random).
<ScottK> StevenK is a DD.
<ScottK> As is pkern
<mok0> ... I've met them here
<ScottK> There are also people like POX_, man-di, and white who hang out here and help out from time to time even though they don't use Ubunt
<ScottK> u
<slangasek> ScottK: and azeem
 * jdong cries
<mok0> What about the utnubu team?
<ScottK> Ah  right.
<ScottK> It's not exceptionally active in my experience.
<jdong> somerville32: have you been able to get the instructions for reconstituting the new upstream release working?
<mok0> Hmm too bad...
 * ScottK has just worked through Debian Mentors or an appropriate team to get stuff sponsored.
<ScottK> It's no harder (and often easier) than getting stuff sponsored through REVU here.
<mok0> I see. I will focus on getting experience in Ubuntu, though, for the time being
<somerville32> jdong, Hmm?
<slangasek> it seems to me that everything that the utnubu team to set out to accomplish is finished at this point; i.e., not eliminating the delta between Ubuntu and Debian, but providing the necessary pipeline for those changes to be as accessible as possible to the Debian maintainers
<somerville32> jdong, Persia doesn't seem to have a problem
<somerville32> jdong, I can send you a debdiff instead if you'd like
<jdong> somerville32: meh I'm working around it currently, it's a fun ride :)
<somerville32> :)
<jdong> somerville32: http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/P/PA/PARDUS/File-BaseDir-0.03.tar.gz is the original from upstream right?
<mok0> slangasek: But there will be more and more packages in Ubuntu that need to be ported
<somerville32> jdong, correct
<txwikinger> I have a question about dpatch
<somerville32> txwikinger, shoot :)
<txwikinger> how can I get the patch file?
<txwikinger> I have created a patch file with diff -Nurp old new
<txwikinger> but that doesn't worj
<txwikinger> work
<slangasek> mok0: right, well, the utnubu team can't realistically take sole responsibility for maintaining those packages in Debian anyway
<somerville32> How does it not work?
<txwikinger> well it says that the file old/.... does not work
<slangasek> mok0: my subversive goal is to get the MOTU introducing these packages to become the Debian maintainers as well :)
<mok0> slangasek: right, but they could assist UD's getting their stuff into Debian
<mok0> slangasek:  Very good idea.
<jdong> somerville32: whoo managed to get a .changes file out of it, test building and test reconstituting right now :D
<somerville32> :D
<ScottK> slangasek: For stuff I've gotten into Ubuntu, your subersive goal is met.
<jdong> somerville32: yeah your package builds fine, idn what the other comment is about
<LaserJock> slangasek: and DM certianly goes a long way as well
<ScottK> Having the Python teams in Debian has helped a lot
<somerville32> jdong, omg. Look at what he did to the package :P
<mok0> txwikinger: make sure you restore the file you edited before making the patch
<somerville32> jdong, Just ignore him
<txwikinger> mok0: I did cp -a . /tmp/old
<somerville32> jdong, "I initially tried to keep the existing cdbs setup, but that seems
<txwikinger> mok0: I did cp -a . /tmp/new
<somerville32> incompatible with Module::Build."
<somerville32> jdong, I was able to keep CDBS :P
<txwikinger> and then I only edited new
<txwikinger> I think I miss something fundamental here
<mok0> txwikinger: did you try "dpatch apply-all" ?
<txwikinger> no
<jdong> somerville32: ok, build-tested and .changes file has your name all over it....
<jdong> somerville32: so I'm gonna press the dput button and hope nothing implodes ;-)
<txwikinger> where and when do I do that?
<somerville32> jdong, Thank you muchly! :)
<mok0> txwikinger: from your top-level directory (the one that has debian/)
<jdong> somerville32: my only question, is Closes lp: #foo a valid Ubuntu syntax?
<txwikinger> in the normal source?
<mok0> yes
<jdong> I thought the use of the term Closes: was looked down upon because Debian parsed it?
<txwikinger> before I edit anything?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> jdong: it parses Closes: #
<slangasek> jdong: it's the LP: #foo that's needed; putting 'closes' in front has no adverse effects on Debian
<jdong> LaserJock: and we parse LP: #foo. Ok, that works :)
<LaserJock> not Closes LP:
<mok0> txwikinger: err, assuming you have your dpatches in debian/patches
<txwikinger> yes they are there
<mok0> txwikinger: then try it
<jdong> so somerville32's "* Closes lp: #172244" would be parsed correctly?
<txwikinger> but the ones that I created have all kinds of stuff on top of the diff
<txwikinger> that I *not* created
<LaserJock> jdong: I'm not positive about the case
<mok0> txwikinger: what kind of stuff?
<LaserJock> jdong: he'd just have to manually do it if it's not right ;-)
<Kmos> jdong: don't think so.. only "LP: #123"
<jdong> LaserJock: sounds easier than reconstructing another interdiff :P
 * jdong rips hair out
<somerville32> jdong, Did you upload?: ]
<txwikinger> looks like bash script and ends with @dpatch@
<jdong> somerville32: doing it now.
<somerville32> Can someone post to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=453073 and tell them to use mine instead? :P
<ubotu> Debian bug 453073 in libfile-basedir-perl "libfile-basedir-perl: New upstream version (0.03)" [Wishlist,Open]
<mok0> txwikinger: Hmmm. A dpatch has 5-10 lines before the diff
<jdong> Successfully uploaded packages.
<jdong> somerville32: ^^ :)
<txwikinger> mok0: No it is more
<mok0> txwikinger: how did you make the patches?
<txwikinger> with diff -Nurp old new
<mok0> txwikinger: did you change a lot of stuff?
<txwikinger> No only one line
<txwikinger> I can redo it if that helps
<mok0> txwikinger: just make a diff on that one file
<txwikinger> from which folder?
<somerville32> jdong,  difference between ectocytosis and endocytosis?
<txwikinger> fromm the root?
<mok0> above top level
<txwikinger> where the .dsc file is?
<mok0> yes
<txwikinger> and where should I put the file that I edit (i.e. the new one?
<mok0> You need a dpatch header in the file
<mok0> dpatch patch-template
<txwikinger> I think there is one in the debian/patches folder
<jdong> somerville32: ectocytosis is the expulsion of vesicles while endocytosis is the taking in of substances
<txwikinger> configure.in.dpatch
<jdong> somerville32: ectocytosis is related to exocytosis, but in the latter the vesicles are formed as a part of the expulsion process while in the former they are preformed :)
<jdong> somerville32: do I get a cookie?
<mok0> txwikinger: ok
<somerville32> !botsnack
<ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<mok0> txwikinger: go "dpatch patch-tempate" it will show you what the header looks like
<somerville32> jdong,  Is it safe to upload zim now or should I wait for that to build?
<txwikinger> mok0: yes that produces that right header
<jdong> somerville32: should be safe to upload, the package will just sit in dependency wait.
<jdong> somerville32: as long as you version the build-dep of course
<somerville32> jdong, I have
<mok0> txwikinger: you're almost there.
<txwikinger> cool thanks :)
<somerville32> jdong, But how do I test-build without the new  version in the archives?
<jdong> somerville32: that is more difficult to do :)
<mok0> txwikinger: dpatch apply-all, does it work?
<jdong> somerville32: you can testbuild using a local pbuilder plus a local apt repo
<txwikinger> mok0: yes
<mok0> txwikinger: cool
<somerville32> pfft.
<jdong> somerville32: or abuse a PPA? :D
<somerville32> I suppose, haha
<jdong> somerville32: work out the infinite loops beforehand though *whistles innocently
<txwikinger> but my patch is not in now.. I took it out
<somerville32> jdong, What infinite loops? :P
<jdong> somerville32: I kinda tied up an i386 PPA buildd for 48 hours... oopsies
<somerville32> jdong, Oh, that upload was looping for me and I thought I really hadn't fixed it and you had uploaded it anyhow :P
<mok0> txwikinger: took it out?
<jdong> somerville32: btw I think my explanation of ecto/exo was reversed
<jdong> -50pts for my bio exam :)
<somerville32> jdong, endo is in :P
<txwikinger> I just deleted the patch file since it didn't work
<mok0> txwikinger: debuild will start by doing a dpatch deapply-all so it doesn't matter
<jdong> somerville32: exo is prepackaged, ecto is the plasma membrane turns into the vesicle lining while being shoved out :)
<txwikinger> ok
<mok0> Itxwikinger: I thought you just made a patch??
<somerville32> What is phagocytosis?
<txwikinger> yes, but I did it with the method /tmp/old /tmp/new
<txwikinger> so it did not have any dpatch header or anything
<somerville32> exo is the opposite of endo, btw
<mok0> txwikinger: For now, just create the dpatch header and edit it into the patch file
<somerville32> nvm the phago question
<jdong> somerville32: phagocytosis is endocytosis, but with a specifically formed vesicular lining around the injested body.
 * somerville32 nods.
<txwikinger> mok0: ok.. sorry if I ask this again
<somerville32> jdong, And pinocytosis is eatting like liquid, right?
<mok0> np
<jdong> somerville32: yes
<joejaxx> grrr hth do you page up on a macbook?
<somerville32> and Receptor-mediated endocytosis is a more specific active event where the cytoplasm membrane folds inward to form coated pits. These inward budding vesicles bud to form cytoplasmic vesicles?
<txwikinger> I have now the src with all patches applied
<jdong> joejaxx: fn-up
<txwikinger> how shall I now edit and diff the file I want to change?
<jdong> somerville32: if you say so :)
<jdong> somerville32: I only lurn what's on the test, so I have more time for this Ubuntu stuff ;-)
<somerville32> :D
<joejaxx> jdong: does not work
<jdong> joejaxx: it !worksforme :-/
<norsetto> night all
<joejaxx> jdong: page up does not work for me in any oses other than leopard
<jdong> joejaxx: that's really odd
<mok0> txwikinger: I usually just copy the file i edit to file.orig, then I do a diff -uN file.orig file
<txwikinger> in the original folder?
<mok0> txwikinger: yeahh
<txwikinger> ok
<mok0> then I edit the patch file to include the dpatch header, and I add dummy directory names to the +++ file to make it a -p1 patch
<mok0> then I make the 00list file in debian/patches
<txwikinger> there are already other dpatches
<mok0> ls *-dpatch > 00list
<txwikinger> so there is already a 00list
<mok0> txwikinger: you just want the names of all the patch files in there
<ScottK> Did this turn into #ubuntu-biology while I was gone?
<jdong> ScottK: it might be #ubuntu-chemistry soon
<jdong> ScottK: and #ubuntu-diffeq on Thurs :)
 * LaserRock runs
<txwikinger> yes mok0: I think I understand the 00list file
<mok0> txwikinger: good!
<ScottK> Good thing I've been out of school long enough to have forgotten all about all those things.
<mok0> :)
<jdong> ScottK: oh how I envy you :)
<txwikinger> mok0: So I do my diff file
<txwikinger> add the header
<somerville32> I love learning :)
<txwikinger> put it in the folder
<mok0> txwikinger: yup
<txwikinger> add the name to the 00list
<ScottK> jdong: But think of the decades of slogging through a career you have still ahead of you that I don't.
<txwikinger> and that is it ?
<ScottK> mok0: You might want to discuss dpatch-edit-patch as that's a pretty foolproof way to make a patch.
 * somerville32 nods.
<mok0> txwikinger: yes. It should work, but the patches need to be relative to the .dsc dir
<txwikinger> ha ScottK doesn't know me
<mok0> ScottK: That's next lesson :-)
<txwikinger> I can break foolproof
<txwikinger> right mok0
<ScottK> mok0: OK.
<ScottK> txwikinger: I understand that nothing is actually foolproof as they are too ingenious.  I've proven that myself on enough occasions.
<mok0> This is like working remote, without seeing, hearing or feeling :-)
<txwikinger> ScottK: :)
<ScottK> mok0: Imagine if this was all point/click gui instead of CLI.  It'd be even more fun then.
<txwikinger> ScottK: I always frustrate people because I break things in ways they never thought about it is possible :D
<StevenK> Hum.
 * StevenK reads his away log and says, "Oh, damn."
<ScottK> txwikinger: Been there.  Done that.
<mok0> ScottK: I can never remember what I did in a GUI. Which is what makes photoshop a real challenge
 * ScottK figures StevenK is referring to #ubuntu-devel
<StevenK> I am.
<StevenK> Right, seb128 cleaned up my mess.
<LaserRock> creepy, my advisor just asked me if I was gonna be around in Feburary
<LaserRock> I guess that means I'm supposed to graduate sometime
<txwikinger> mok0: Thanks the patch applies now :D
<mok0> txwikinger:  Yay!
<mok0> txwikinger: remember, it's better with many small patches, than one big one. Remember to document what the patches do in debian/changelog
<txwikinger> yes mok0
<txwikinger> I just try one of the MOTU butesizes
<txwikinger> I liitle fix for the info stuff
<mok0> txwikinger: good idea
<txwikinger> I have already down a couple of simple packages from scratch
<txwikinger> s/down/done/
<mok0> txwikinger: without patches, I take it....
<txwikinger> I think I didn't need them
<mok0> txwikinger: once you get used to patches, they are actually pretty nice to work with. You keep the original sources pristine
<txwikinger> I only had to create all the stuff for the debian folder
<txwikinger> I didn't have to change anything in the original sources
<txwikinger> I totally agree the method with the patches is great
<mok0> txwikinger: did you upload the packages?
<txwikinger> on revu yes
<mok0> txwikinger: wait till you learn about the dpatch-edit-patch command, it'll blow you away... :-)
<txwikinger> oh .. I did one for main and uploaded the debdiff on the bug
<txwikinger> :D
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-28
<txwikinger> but the patch I did was not dpatch
<txwikinger> Now I have to figure out where to change the postinst and prerm files that are created with debhelper
<mok0> txwikinger: for that, you'd better do some reading...
<txwikinger> Already found it :D
<txwikinger> grep is always my friend :)
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> google's mine
<txwikinger> well that is grep's buddy
<alvinc> okay, i know i'm doing something stupid or forgetting something dumb
<alvinc> but dpkg-buildpackage says my scret key is not available
<alvinc> why is that?
<alvinc> debsign, actually, is what is puking
<txwikinger> did you provide the keyid?
<alvinc> yup
<alvinc>   181  debuild -rfakeroot -kD8C7693C
<alvinc> duh
<alvinc> i just imported my key on this box
<alvinc> and didn't assign trust to it
<txwikinger> :)
<alvinc> i are moron.  :-/
<alvinc> oh wait, still puked for some reason
<alvinc> hm
<alvinc> derrrrrr......
<alvinc> helps if i import the secret key as well as the private key, huh?
<alvinc> :-/
<mok0> Goodnight all!
<txwikinger> Night mok0:
<txwikinger> THanks for your help
<mok0> txwikinger: good I could help!
<LaserRock> bah, anybody know how to get a USB disk working on sarge with a 2.4 kernel?
<StevenK> Just plug it in?
<LaserRock> heh
<LaserRock> no such luck so far
<StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies!
<ScottK> I have a Sarge derived desktop here still and USB works on it just fine, but it has a 2.6 kernel.
<jdong> ScottK: well udev only works with 2.6 kernels...
<jdong> LaserRock: time to whip out your mount commands :)
<LaserRock> jdong: well yeah, that's what I tried
<jdong> sudo mount /dev/sda /mnt -t vfat -o umask=000?
<jdong> err without the sudo thingie ;-)
<LaserRock> I use sudo
<LaserRock> it's habit now
<jdong> it's a great habit
<LaserRock> mount: /dev/sda is not a valid block device
<jdong> checked dmesg for the right block dev?
<LaserRock> I just keep getting that for various /dev/sd*
<LaserRock> well, dmesg doesn't say much
<jdong> dmesg should show the usb mass storage device being probed
<LaserRock> I'm guessing this might not be a good sign: usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0xd49/0x3210) is not claimed by any active driver.
<jdong> LaserRock: modprobe usb-storage?
<jdong> yay for lack of hotplug...
<LaserRock> haha
<LaserRock> there we go
<jdong> *cough* apt-get install linux-2.6
<LaserRock> can't
<LaserRock> nice proprietary drivers that only work with 2.4 kernel
<jdong> lovely :)
<LaserRock> yes
<LaserRock> one of the joys of working in my field
<LaserRock> you pay $500 bucks for the board and get screwed if you want a free or Free driver
<jdong> yay
<LaserRock> we paid $1k for the software, Windows of course
<LaserRock> aha, that darn thing must've been using USB1
<jdong> LaserRock: modprobe ehci_hcd? :)
<jdong> LaserRock: maybe it's usb_ehci in 2.4
<LaserRock> well, the ancient computer with USB1 but running Gutsy or the new Dell with USB2 running sarge with a 2.4 kernel
<StevenK> It's just ehci
<LaserRock> jdong: nah, the new one works I think ok
<LaserRock> it's the other computer I was trying before
<LaserRock> that was only USB1
<RAOF> LaserRock: My partner works in materials science.  *They* pay for their software.  I really don't know why.  It looks like I could knock up something that works better in a month or so.
<LaserRock> RAOF: well, this stuff is really quite interesting, not something I could knock up in a month
<LaserRock> although we don't need a 10th of it
<LaserRock> you just buy everything hoping that what you need is somewhere in there :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
 * Fujitsu wonders if we can get Kmos to destroy that quit message.
<effie_jayx> heh
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: he didn't say anything about that software actually working.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's true.
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: talk to the linux driver people
<ScottK> Fujitsu: There's another (similarly phrased) solution to that problem.
 * Hobbsee grins
<LaserRock> Burgundavia: what linux driver people?
<Hobbsee> yes but that's...illegal in most countries
<Fujitsu> LaserRock: The group of kernel developers who were asking for devices to write drivers for.
<LaserRock> Fujitsu: for what?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: No need to mention irrelevant trivialities
<RAOF> Fujitsu: What?  There is such a group?
 * Fujitsu finds a link.
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: http://www.linuxdriverproject.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
<Fujitsu> That looks right.
<Fujitsu> Yay, Novell vs. SCO is unstayed.
<Burgundavia> they are actively looking for devices to support
<StevenK> Is that the thing GregKH is working on?
<ajmitch> they are actively looking for specs for devices
<Burgundavia> yes
<Rotund> Can someone walk me through updating someone else's package?
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: I would expect if they cannot get specs, they might want access to a machine with the device plugged in
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: I would also personally email/mail the company as well get the Uni to make an official request for specs
<StevenK> Burgundavia: Having being involved in driver development, just having access to the device isn't enough
<LaserRock> Burgundavia: well, open drivers mostly exist already
<LaserRock> Burgundavia: they just don't do what I want
 * StevenK pokes firefox. Start!
<LaserRock> to either use a 2.6 kernel or the open drivers I have to redesign my data aquisition program
<LaserRock> ah well, supposedly I'm gonna get out of here soonish
<StevenK> When they unlock the doors?
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: if the drive is not the in vanilla kernel, they can help with that too
<LaserRock> when I get my butt into gear
<ajmitch> then you'll be in the real world & earning big money?
<LaserRock> Burgundavia: this is for rarely used scientific hardware, I sort of doubt anybody wants to work on that much
<LaserRock> ajmitch: more like completely broke and unemployed
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: No, then he'll have time to release the Ponies.
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: they want all drivers
<ajmitch> LaserRoc can be our unofficial MOTU sponsor
<StevenK> But no internet connection to post them.
<StevenK> Being completely broke and unemployed
<Burgundavia> LaserRock: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html
<LaserRock> StevenK: sadly perhaps
<LaserRock> I really hope I can get a decent job
<ScottK> He can post them from the library.
<StevenK> Or hit up his grandpa
<LaserRock> ScottK: i don't know if they allow that kind of stuff in the Library ;-)
<LaserRock> StevenK: more likely ;-)
<ScottK> LaserRock: I think there's been a thread on Piled Higher and Deeper recently.
<LaserRock> ScottK: yes yes, been reading that
<LaserRock> story of my life
<ScottK> http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=937 for the rest of you.
<ScottK> That or the current one.
<ScottK> ;-)
<LaserRock> yep, I read that this morning and thought to myself, "so true"
<StevenK> So, Firefox! Why did you not start when I asked you, but you start when I click on the link ScottK pasted.
<LaserRock> StevenK: cause it hates you
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Because it wants you to use Epiphany.
<LaserRock> ewww ;-)
 * StevenK takes a pony and beats LaserRock with it.
<LaserRock> dude ... I'm a rock
 * StevenK beats you with paper
<LaserRock> with a freakin' laser beam attached
<LaserRock> ;-)
 * LaserRock atomizes StevenK's paper into a puff of smoke
 * StevenK "accidently" dumps some HCl on LaserRock
<somerville32> StevenK, What concentration?
<StevenK> Damn, I could never remember that bit.
 * somerville32 dumps HClO4 on StevenK 
<StevenK> Don't recognise that one
<StevenK> It's been nine years since I did any chemistry, though
<LaserRock> it's been about the same for me ;-)
<somerville32> HClO4 is Perchloric acid
<LaserRock> I'm sure I have some HF around here somewhere
<somerville32> Hydrofluoric acid?
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | http://www.ubuntuwire.com is back
<somerville32> Heya persia :)
<persia> somerville32: Hi
<somerville32> persia, How goes you?
<persia> somerville32: Network and equipment annoyances, but otherwise reasonably
<Rotund> Okay.  I want to take mugshot_1.1.56-1.diff.gz, mugshot_1.1.56-1_i386.changes, mugshot_1.1.56-1.dsc, mugshot_1.1.56.orig.tar.gz and build a proper package.  Can someone help me with this?
<somerville32> :)
<Ubulette> oh, persia, hi :)
<persia> Rotund: That looks like you have a proper package.  Do you perhaps want to build it?
<Rotund> persia: yes, I'd like to build it and hopefully update it from this (from debian) to Ubuntu such that it could be uploaded to universe potentially
<somerville32> persia, Do you know which of the zim bugs are fixed in 0.23 or do I have to go manually check? <g>
<Ubulette> persia, still ok to continue (or finish?) the review of prism ? btw, no one else stepped up
<persia> Rotund: Anything in Debian should be automatically uploaded to universe by 14th December.  In Ubuntu we upload source, so that is the correct form for an upload.  For building, debuild, pbuilder, and sbuild will give you binaries.  If you want to update you probably want dpkg-source -x foo.dsc to unpack.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for discussion of process and links to a list of Documentation
<persia> somerville32: I'd guess most of them, but have no firm ideas.  You'll need to check.
<persia> Ubulette: I don't have the resources for proper review right now (network issues).  I'll look again when I have time and resources.
<Ubulette> ok
<Ubulette> anyone else to double check Prism ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism      (described here https://edge.launchpad.net/prism/ or http://labs.mozilla.com/2007/10/prism/)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<somerville32> bddebian, :)
<bddebian> Hi somerville32
<somerville32> How would I create a local repository?
<somerville32> ol
<somerville32> I want to build zim the new version of libfile-basedir-perl isn't published yet
<bddebian> There used to be a wiki page on it
<Hobbsee> somerville32: use ppa?
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I still have to wait for it to build
<Hobbsee> this is true
<somerville32> Oh wait
<somerville32> It says published.
<somerville32> I must need to update my tarball
<Fujitsu> somerville32: They are only published to the public after around :42 of the hour.
<somerville32> :45 atm?
<Fujitsu> That's true, so it should be there.
<zul> hey
<Fujitsu> Hi zul.
<somerville32> Guh, it isn't working :/
<somerville32>  -> Considering build-dep libfile-basedir-perl (>= 0.03)
<somerville32>       Tried versions: 0.02-1
<ScottK> Did you update your pbuilder?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: The source has published, but the binaries are largely yet to build, let alone be published.
<Fujitsu> Hmm.
<Fujitsu> Actually, what...
<RAOF> Ubulette: I've had a brief look at prism.  One of the changelog entries mentions that you install something because it requires xulrunner 1.9 beta 1.  That's in the archives - is there any reason why you don't just have stricter versioned dependencies?
<somerville32> It says published :/
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Are you looking at the source?
<somerville32> Probably
<Fujitsu> Gaah, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+package/libfile-basedir-perl is rather misleading.
<somerville32> oh
<somerville32> i386 is built
<StevenK> But probably not published yet
<somerville32> 64 isn't though, and I'm building on 64bit
<Fujitsu> somerville32: It's arch: all, so is the only one. It will be published in 40 minutes.
<StevenK> And probably hit the mirror in about 70
<StevenK> Er, s/the mirror/archive.u.c/
<somerville32> It was built an hour ago though
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Is a.u.c really that far out of sync with drescher?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: a.u.c is pushed to during the publisher run, and the publisher takes a while to run
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Publisher starts at :03, and finishes around :42, doesn't it?
<Ubulette> RAOF: i expected to have prism in hardy sooner than xul 1.9b1 (in which i've changed the path for plugins and addons), I've got xul (and firefox 3) sponsored first, a few hours ago, so I can now update prism with the final path for its addon (or update prism later, it doesn't matter much)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Roughly
<Fujitsu> StevenK: So your 70 minute figure seems quite arbitrary.
<StevenK> Shush
 * Fujitsu shushes.
<StevenK> I see what you're doing now -- evidently my addition skills need polishing
<Fujitsu> ?
<Ubulette> RAOF, you mentioned changelogs, persia made me empty them. are you sure you're watching the last update in revu ?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Never mind me
<Fujitsu> StevenK: How did you obtain 70?
 * persia never makes anyone do things, just offers suggestions
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I took your 40 and added 30, so yes, arbitrary.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Ahh.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I should have clarified my use of `published' there, sorry.
<RAOF> Ubulette: I may have missed the last upload.
<RAOF> Ubulette: Also, I'm not sure that clearing those changelog entries is the right thing to do (since those packages have been published somewhere public), although I would probably change the format somewhat.
<RAOF> I notice you still don't close a needs-packaging bug in the changelog, though :).
<Ubulette> RAOF, i was for keeping them, persia kind of convinced me to drop them
<ScottK> Where was it published before?
<RAOF> ScottK: In a PPA.
<persia> How public?  How many users?  Was the previous place supported?
<Ubulette> RAOF, oh, forgot to open a bug on lp. I'll do that tomorrow (it's 3am here)
<ScottK> RAOF: I'd say that doesn't count then and it's appropriate to start fresh, but that's just me.
<persia> I'd rather follow the Debian model, where first upload is first upload (as with the case where Ubuntu changelogs are dropped when a package is included in Debian)
 * ScottK too
<RAOF> Fair enough.
 * RAOF squirrels that away.
 * persia notes, for the record, that Debian mentors currently suggests multiple changelogs during the sponsoring process, but that this is not the normal case for Debian uploads.
<bddebian> Yeah, I found that stupid but what do I know
<slangasek> persia: who are you referring to when you say "Debian mentors"?
<slangasek> it's certainly helpful to use distinguishing version numbers when exchanging packages with a sponsor, unless you've got a nice VCS between you
 * ScottK envisions slangasek magically transforming himself into the superhero vorlon and vanquishing evil on the continent of OFTC.
<persia> slangasek: That's an interesting question :)  My data comes from the contents of mentors.debian.net and a number of posts I've seen in response to package candidates that ask for changelog updates when uploading a new revision to mentors.d.n
 * persia advocates REVU for Debian
<bddebian> I talked to pabs about that
<slangasek> persia: right; mentors.debian.net involves exchanging packages publically, so it's useful to be able to number them distinctly :)
<bddebian> I can't see Debian doing that, but again what do I know? :-)
<persia> slangasek: Maybe.  On the other hand, from working in the sponsors queue, I frequently get a bunch of different candidates for the same upload revision, and as long as I can differentiate them locally, it's not an issue.
<ScottK> Well that's one of the features REVU has that mentors is currently missing.
<persia> slangasek: Sure, but REVU exchanges packages publically, with the same revision, and changing dates.  It's unsupported, but if it ever gets uploaded, the packaging tools will auto-upgrade to the released version, even for users who grabbed the early version.
<persia> Anyway, this discussion has already happened lots of times on OFTC and in threads on l.d.o, so it's not worth rehashing now :)
 * ScottK has never experienced that on mentors.  Just fix this, fixed, dget the new .dsc and done.
<ScottK> Easier with the VCS in common, but not really an issue either way.
<LaserRock> I don't think I've ever had a "fix this" on mentors
 * bddebian decides not to comment
<LaserRock> although i think I may have only tried one package on mentors back in the day
<LaserRock> so that's not much of a stat to go by ;-)
<LaserRock> I just sent a RFS: and two days later it was uploaded
<LaserRock> I could be wrong though, that was back in 2006
 * ScottK tried the whine on #debian-mentors approach.
 * ScottK saw bddebian whining there too.
 * bddebian hasn't had success with either
<LaserRock> hehe
 * RAOF has always used the "prod StevenK" approach.
<LaserRock> I do think it goes much smoother if a package has passed REVU
<ScottK> Agreed.
<LaserRock> normally you might just need a tweak or two to make sure it doesn't have any Ubuntuizations
<LaserRock> bddebian: have you had a package just plain not get uploaded?
<bddebian> Nah, I've finally gotten most of them in except for adanaxisgpl and the updates to pybliographer and valknut
<LaserRock> that's good at least
<bddebian> I just uploaded pybliographer and valknut to Hardy
<nxvl> hi folks!
<nxvl> imbrandon: are you around?
 * LaserRock tries a way to stay here while taking a shower
<LaserRock> *tries to find
<zul> er why?
<LaserRock> I hate it when stupid tasks like eating, sleeping, etc. get in the way of my Ubuntu time
<nxvl> LaserRock: you need an acuatic n800 for that
<nxvl> :P
<LaserRock> hmm, surely there is a gum for this
<LaserRock> ;-)
<Ubulette> RAOF, ok, fixed both, I've updated my bzr branch and re-pushed to REVU.
<Ubulette> feel free to review that one.
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!  you still here?
<ajmitch> poor LaserRock
<ajmitch> always getting hassled about ponies
<Hobbsee> and poor me, always getting hassled abou tmy uni work.
<LaserRock> Hobbsee: poor me, always getting hassled about my uni work *and* ponies
<LaserRock> Hobbsee: yeah, you know what pony you're gettin ;-)
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: the one about bugging the hell out of you?
<Hobbsee> LaserRock: or having a go at people?
<LaserRock> Hobbsee: no, http://sc.tri-bit.com/No,_You_Can't_Have_a_Pony (for lack of a better URL)
<Rotund> Is there a reason a Mugshot package would be rejected?
<Rotund> I mean just generally.  Something about lack of freedom for the server or some such.
<imbrandon> Rotund, the reason me or jdub neither put the packages in the archive is mugshot updates far too often
<imbrandon> to be usefull in the archive
<Rotund> imbrandon, I think it has slowed down quite a bit
<imbrandon> Rotund: possibly, i havent looked in a few months
<Rotund> imbrandon, 20 of June, 28 of June (bug fix) and 14 of Oct.
<Rotund> imbrandon,  That's the last 3 releases.  They were much closer before than
<Rotund> s/than/then/
<imbrandon> it might be worth a re-look, i'm a tad worried though that 3 years worth of security on it might be a pita
<Rotund> imbrandon, I think I'll at least set up a PPA for it.  I'm I think DLove has slowed way down.  Security?
<imbrandon> Rotund: hardy will require security updates for 3 years
<Rotund> imbrandon, I mean DLove hasn't kept up w/ new releases (no Gutsy yet for instance)
<imbrandon> Rotund: its already packaged by jdub and updated by me but its not in the archive
<imbrandon> Dlove?
<Rotund> imbrandon, I don't think jdub has updated it in a while
<imbrandon> yea i did the last updates ( as i just said )
<imbrandon> anyhow yea its worth a re-look
<Rotund> imbrandon, David Love is the place pointed to on the mugshot download page
<Rotund> http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Downloads
<Rotund> imbrandon, you up to 1.1.56?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> but it would be much easier to update an existing package than re-package it
<Rotund> imbrandon, ahhh.  Okay.  I just built such a beast.
<Rotund> imbrandon, I took the one from Heikki Henriksen (debian)
<Rotund> updated that one
<imbrandon> cool, if you already have it done rockin, was it based on jdubs packages ?
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<Rotund> now to figure out how to set up a ppa =)
<imbrandon> stick it on REVU/PPA then and point me to it
<imbrandon> and i'll revu / possibly sponsor it
<Rotund> okay.  Super.  I want to double-check a couple things first.  Is there a wiki page on how to upload it?
<imbrandon> revu would be the best
<Rotund> Or did you mean REVU or a PPA
<imbrandon> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
<imbrandon> you mentioned Heikki Henriksen packages, its not in debian is it?
<Rotund> I don't think so
<Rotund> I think it's just on his personal page.  That's where mugshot points you to at least
<imbrandon> http://svn.debian.org/~heikkih-guest/mugshot/
<Rotund> not in unstable even
<imbrandon> Rotund: right but there is probably a itp for it
 * imbrandon looks
<Rotund> itp?
<imbrandon> intent to package, e.g he intends to upload those
<imbrandon> are there changes from those or just rebuilt ?
<Rotund> Some changes.  Renaming the iceweasel stuff to say firefox mostly
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<Rotund> yeah.
<Rotund> what is the dpkg gui tool (gtk) called
<imbrandon> yea , upload it to REVU please, and it is based on mugshot_1.1.56-1 from HH ?
<imbrandon> speaking of, heh thats the first use of mod userdir on alioth
<Rotund> hmm?
<Rotund> It'll take me a second to get my ducks in a row (first contribution)
<imbrandon> Rotund: no problems i'll be here a few hours, if you get stuck just poke me
 * StevenK pokes imbrandon
<imbrandon> might be afk for a few here and there but i'll be generaly arround next ~6 hours
<StevenK> I'm stuck, fix *my* problem. :-P
<imbrandon> heya StevenK :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh i probably cant if you cant :)
<imbrandon> StevenK: heya btw, i dident know ~/public_html was "allowed" on alioth ?
<StevenK> Like I've used alioth
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> ok
 * StevenK picks up his shovel and goes back to digging through ./configure
<Rotund> imbrandon, I think it's uploading right now
 * StevenK uses his shovel to beat upstream about the head
<Rotund> could someone resync the uploaders keyring?
<imbrandon> yea one sec
<imbrandon> syncing now , it will take a few minutes
<StevenK> "Minutes" ?
<Rotund> Not running dinstall.  Is that a problem?
<StevenK> Rotund: Nope, dinstall is a Debian-ism
<Rotund> imbrandon, I'm pretty sure it actually uploaded, just don't have an account on REVU =)
<StevenK> I think I might patch running dinstall out of dput, it hasn't been useful for *years*
<imbrandon> Rotund: right, means it will be rejected, once the key syncs you can reupload ( after deleting *.upload localy )
<LaserRock> StevenK: yes, there are a few of those kinds of things that'd be nice
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe yea only takes ~15 minutes
<StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Oh, and file bugs.
<imbrandon> heya LaserRock
<LaserRock> yeah, see that's why I'm not fixing dput ;-)
<imbrandon> ugh now not only did my fast computer leave me running a p200, NOW my monitor decided to quit, /me goes back to a 15 inch
<imbrandon> man payday cant come fast enough
<StevenK> imbrandon: Buy better hardware
<imbrandon> yea really
<StevenK> imbrandon: What are you buying?
<imbrandon> StevenK: that *was* dell
<StevenK> imbrandon: And? Buy better hardware. :-)
<StevenK> imbrandon: If you don't buy comsumer-level Dell, you should be okay
<imbrandon> heh yea i'll likely be getting high end HP or ..... something else
<Rotund> I think I'm gonna get a System76 for my church =)
<imbrandon> system76 are nice but dont have the systems i'm interested in :)
<Rotund> I told them they're gonna use Linux.
<Rotund> what are you interested in?
<imbrandon> either high end desktops ( not gaming high end ) or sub-notebooks
<TheMuso> Afternoon folks.
<imbrandon> heya TheMuso
<Rotund> boy that key thing takes a while, huh?
<imbrandon> Rotund: basicly anything with more than 4GB of ram and over dual core 3ghz
<imbrandon> yea it takes a bit, lots of keys to grab
<Rotund> running 64-bit?
<imbrandon> its on "S" 's now , Sean Rains <sean.rains@gmail.com>
<imbrandon> shouldnmt be much longer
<Rotund> hmmm.  Must it finish all them first?
<imbrandon> yea i run 64bit vm's host OS is normaly 32bit + PAE though
<imbrandon> Rotund: yea
<Rotund> which VM?
<imbrandon> depends on the machine :)
<imbrandon> vmware mostly
<imbrandon> why?
<Rotund> I got a paid version of VMWare, but I'm looking at virtualbox
<Rotund> just interested... and waiting =)
<imbrandon> i use most of the paid VMware products at work :)
<StevenK> The VM server my old employer got just before I left was nice.
<Rotund> ahhh.  We talked about it, but then only did it on the servers.
<StevenK> Quad core 2.4GHz Xeon, 4GB RAM, SATA-II
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh they just got some 32GB Ram quad core ( dual, dual core ) boxen here
<imbrandon> very nice
<Rotund> Why not go right to the fibre hdds (forget the name)
<imbrandon> + fiber connected SAN :)
<StevenK> That isn't quad core that's SMP dual core :-)
<imbrandon> its 4 cores :)
<StevenK> On 2 chips
<StevenK> This was 4 cores on one chip :-)
<imbrandon> oh i know, thus i made the distenction
<Rotund> I've been considering getting my wife a quad-core for video production (cinelerra)
<Rotund> Oh, what's the reason cinelerra is being blocked?
<LaserJock> because it's authors are on crack
<imbrandon> vid production is much more RAM/HDD blocked isnt it, vs the cpu
<LaserJock> *its, I think
<Rotund> LaserJock, which?  HeroineWarrior or the community guys?
<LaserJock> Rotund: kinda both
<LaserJock> but mostly Heroine
<Rotund> imbrandon, depends on the effects.
<Rotund> Perhaps, but it's the only decent one for Linux.
<LaserJock> Rotund: cinelerra is not GPL, despite what heroine says
<LaserJock> so we can't include it in the archives
<LaserJock> we can't redistribute it
<LaserJock> Rotund: Ubuntu Studio tried for months to get Cinelerra in :/
<imbrandon> Rotund: ok key synced, delete your *.upload file localy and re dput
<Rotund> done
<Rotund> when do I get a website account?  after I uploaded something?
<imbrandon> correct
<Rotund> okay.  5 more minutes
<imbrandon> you use the "lost password" function once its uploaded
<imbrandon> and it will give you a GPG encrypted passwd
<Rotund> Okay.  So, I removed an error that lintian gave.  Dm Upload Allowed.  That was the right thing to do, right?
<Rotund> I saw some arguments about it
<StevenK> Neat.
<Rotund> LaserJock, What is keeping it from being GPLed though?
<imbrandon> well depends, without it being in the archive yet , that was probably the correct thing to do, but thats a debian thing
<StevenK> You search Google for a function and the only document that matches is from the SVN repository of the project you're building
<imbrandon> and should be kept as upsteam does once its in the archive
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh
<Rotund> even if it's a Lintian error?
<imbrandon> yes
<Rotund> got it
<LaserJock> Rotund: Heroine refuses to actually make sure that GPL'd source is really GPL'd
<imbrandon> Rotund: ok its there ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mugshot ) revuing now
<LaserJock> Rotund: I'm fairly sure that Heroine is violating the GPL and doesn't really want to change, can't help that much
<Rotund> imbrandon, just about to tell you, but you're too quick
<imbrandon> Rotund: "* Modified to build on gutsy" modified "what" to build on gutsy ( and it should be hardy targeted not gutsy )
<Rotund> LaserJock, Apparently the community version is talking about starting from scratch =)
<LaserJock> Rotund: yep, that's pretty much the conclusion I came to
<Rotund> Well, it was for me to use now.  I'll remove the comment entirely.  All the changes were about the firefox/iceweasel thing
<Rotund> LaserJock, I don't think we can get to another pro level one any time soon though.  Look at how hard it is to get a decent entry-level editor... hasn't happened yet
<LaserJock> Rotund: yep, it's really a shame, a real shame :(
<Rotund> imbrandon, can I change a comment or will I have to rebuild?
<imbrandon> if you make any changes you will have to debuld -S -sa , remove the .upload file and reupload
<somerville32> Is this out of date? http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu-policy/ch2.html
<imbrandon> but it was more a question at this moint
<imbrandon> point
<Rotund> no problem
<Rotund> LaserJock, how is GPLed code not GPLed?  You mean he pulled in some code and didn't check the license?
<persia> somerville32: Yes.  Check /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz on hardy
<persia> (or sid or lenny, if you prefer)
<Rotund> imbrandon, I've tested the package on gutsy, haven't tested on hardy (not installed)
<LaserJock> Rotund: basically yeah
<Rotund> imbrandon, is there a way to force dbus to reload?  That should be in the package.
<LaserJock> Rotund: an initiall check showed that 1000 out of 3000 files are not GPL
<Rotund> Whoa.  Like missing the header or what?
<Rotund> or actually looked into the code?
<LaserJock> various
<LaserJock> sometimes there is *no* license info
<Rotund> Is there a page on that?
<imbrandon> Rotund: /etc/init.d/dbus reload ?
<LaserJock> Rotund: no, you'd have to ask the Ubuntu Studio guys
<LaserJock> Rotund: ask _MMA_ about it
<Rotund> imbrandon, where would I put that command?
<imbrandon> Rotund: you mean dbus needs to be reloaded after an install? sounds like a job for the postinstall
<Rotund> is it just a bash file basically?
<Rotund> I didn't see instructions on postinstall
<LaserJock> Rotund: you could probably dig around the community mailing lists
<LaserJock> Rotund: Heroine was emailed, etc.
<imbrandon> Rotund: ok go a head and make the other changes , i'll make that change
<Rotund> imbrandon, =)... how?
<imbrandon> e.g. clarify your changelog entries
<Rotund> dch -e?
<ScottK> LaserJock: I've seen lots of packages uploaded with missing file headers if the intent was clear overall.  What makes this different?
<imbrandon> and i'll make the postinstall ( if needed ) before upload, i'm doing some other checks now, we MIGHT have to put this in multiverse
<imbrandon> not sure
<Rotund> I think everything's free.  Can't you even get the server code?
<LaserJock> ScottK: the took code from elsewhere, sometimes GPL-incompatible, and called the whole thing GPL
<StevenK> Which is naughty
<ScottK> Ah.  That'll do it.
<ScottK> Yes.
<imbrandon> Rotund: everything is free but the name, e.g. a firefox/iceweazle case
 * StevenK kicks this mess called gtkmozembed
<LaserJock> ScottK: it was bad enough that some people considered having a talk with FSF
<ScottK> Ah.
<StevenK> Why didn't they?
<LaserJock> they might have, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I don't really care about it
<LaserJock> but when 1/3 of your code is at least questionable
<LaserJock> and then you say that the whole thing is GPL and *blast* anybody who likes clarification
<Rotund> imbrandon, firefox-sage is in universe
<imbrandon> StevenK / ScottK / LaserJock , someone else mind peeking at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/mugshot-0711280500/mugshot-1.1.56/LICENSE and tell me if that is going to be an issue for universe , i'd imagine its most definately a problem for debian
 * ScottK looks
<imbrandon> Rotund: yea but we have agreements with mozilla corp, leaste canonical does
<Rotund> imbrandon, should I allow for iceweasel?
<imbrandon> Rotund: its the name "mugshot" its self has restrictions on use
<persia> There'd need to be an agreement in place so that Redhat permits Ubuntu to call it mugshot.
<imbrandon> firefox iceweazle was another example of just such a thing
<ScottK> Personally I wouldn't upload it as I don't consider it free software, but by Ubuntu policy it's probaby fine.
<Rotund> imbrandon, I remember that
<persia> Rotund: You could call it something else: as long as "mugshot" isn't the name, you're safe.
<persia> (e.g. running sed -n s/mugshot/facesnap/g recursively would make it free)
<imbrandon> and yes a | iceweasel would be nice
<StevenK> imbrandon: Questionable at best
<Rotund> imbrandon, is the following fine?
<Rotund>   * Renamed iceweasel-mugshot to firefox-mugshot
<Rotund>   * Fixes related to using firefox over iceweasel
<Rotund> originally it used iceweasel-extensions, not mozilla-extensions
<ScottK> StevenK: How is it more questionable than Firefox?
<imbrandon> yea , looks better, but i think we need to look into this name thing a bit more, a new name might be required
 * ajmitch isn't seeing a huge problem with the mugshot trademark guidelines
 * persia claims that licensing and trademarks are orthogonal, and so it doesn't matter, as long as there aren't any conflicts
<StevenK> ScottK: It's linked to a web service, and the trademark talks about the web service and community all through it
<ScottK> Ah.
<imbrandon> well , the config option was added to comply with the change , e.g. --with-about-message="Mugshotâ¢ client code adapted for Debian"
 * StevenK grumbles, and rebuilds tinymail.
 * ScottK thinks if you aren't Free to modify the code and use it, it's not free.
<imbrandon> ScottK: sure you are, you just cant use the same name :)
<persia> ScottK: You're free to do that, you just can't call it "Mugshot" if you aren't using mugshot.org.
<ScottK> Which imposes a requirement to modify it in a certain way.
<imbrandon> so does everything but BSD lic :)
<persia> ScottK: No, just links two modifications: if you change the target, you change the name.  If you leave the target, you leave the name.
<ScottK> Not really.
<imbrandon> there are plenty of restrictions in the GPL, esp GPLv3
<ScottK> Of course on the other end of the spectrum I also don't like AGPL and it's forced distribution requirements.
<persia> Still, best to check with RedHat, and likely best to have someone commit to personally maintain it (or a team), rather than it being randomly in universe.
<Rotund> imbrandon, you see this?  http://mugshot.org/trademark
<imbrandon> Rotund: yes i read it
<somerville32> woot
<somerville32> Almost done zim
<nxvl> imbrandon: i have just write you an email
<imbrandon> but i'm not a lic expert, personaly on this case i would rather canonical contact redhat for an agreement OR it go past debian-legal
<persia> somerville32: Excellent.  How many bugs will you get to close?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Then bring it in front of the Technical Board.
<imbrandon> nxvl: great, wasent sure when you were online
<imbrandon> StevenK: good idea
<somerville32> persia, One at the moment :P New version.
<Rotund> imbrandon, was my comments fine
<Rotund> ?
<Rotund> oh wait, you responded =)
<somerville32> I have to check now to see if the new version fixes any of the bugs and list them
<somerville32> and than I'll see about fixing a few myself
<imbrandon> Rotund: in other words keep up the good work and i'll still get with you on making the package "ready" technicly but we need to talk to the TB at very leaste before i feel comfy sponsoring it into the archives
<imbrandon> just to CYA
<somerville32> persia, I figured out libfile-basedir-perl and got it uploaded and all that (it was blocking zim)
<nxvl> imbrandon: if talk iÂ´m online if donÂ´t im not :D
<Rotund> imbrandon, could you tell me how to get that postinstall?  I'd like to put it on a PPA
<imbrandon> nxvl: great, 'll poke my mail in just a sec
<StevenK> somerville32: Hmph, no you didn't, I figured it was libfile-basedir-perl :-)
<somerville32> StevenK, Pfft. I just asked you what package it was in :P
<persia> somerville32: I was sure the new version also closed a bunch of others: I'm expecting a changelog like http://paste.ubuntu.com/2309/, just with heaps & heaps of entries :)
<imbrandon> Rotund: sure, did you re-upload ?
<Rotund> one sec
<imbrandon> k
<somerville32> persia, The changelog is a little cryptic
<jdong> I've never heard "frob" before
<jdong> except from the playground in elementary school but I'm sure that's another context
<persia> somerville32: Well, you'd want something actually relevant ...
<somerville32> persia, I meant the upstream changelog is a little cryptic
<persia> somerville32: Yes.  Very much so.
<persia> jdong: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/frob.html
<persia> (meaning 2)
<jdong> somerville32: you (are|have) (going\ to\ make|made) sure that libfile-mimeinfo-perl is not borked by the new libfile-basedir-perl, right? :)
<somerville32> persia, This is the current changelog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2310/
<somerville32> jdong, umm, sure :P
<jdong> persia: ah, learned a new word today :)
<Fujitsu> jdong: You could have merged those two sets of alternatives.
<persia> somerville32: I'd recommend adding (LP: 165285) to the "* New Upstream Release" line, and indenting the upstream bugfixes there.
<jdong> Fujitsu: in hindsight it would've saved some parentheses for the LISP foundation, yeah.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Hahah.
<StevenK> "You *have* made sure that libfile-mimeinfo-perl is not borked by the new libfile-basedir-perl, right?"
<nxvl> this is a "bot" on a server sjfhjkswhich is running and loggin all day long :D
<somerville32> persia, You want me to paste in the upstream changelog?
<jdong> StevenK: meh I didn't want to make it too accusatory, it's Hardy after all, he has time to do it :)
<jdong> anyway, I'm tired and have exams tomorrow, night everyone :)
<persia> somerville32: No, just if upstream closed some bugs (like crashes on install, internal links broken, etc.), it's best to mention them in the changelog (as subentries to * New upstream release) with indication of the relevant LP bugs.
<somerville32> persia, Right. I plan to do that once I figure out which ones it fixes :
<persia> Right :)
<Rotund> imbrandon, uploaded.  Just needs to refresh
 * ScottK notes in passing that they are discussing the flying spaghettin monster and cocaine on #debian-devel right now.  We aren't having enough fun in here.
<imbrandon> Rotund: ok, give me a few moments, sortnig some email
<Rotund> no prob
<persia> On the other hand, for just the current changes, I'd recommend http://paste.ubuntu.com/2311/ as having a clearer association between an entry and the closed bug.
<imbrandon> Rotund: you still have it targeting gutsy in the changelog, it needs to be hardy, gusty is released already
<imbrandon> ( it can be backported later )
<davidrawson> hello
<persia> davidrawson: Hello
<davidrawson> what can I use to mount ISO's?
<Rotund> imbrandon, Sorry, I thought you just meant the comment
<Rotund> =)
<imbrandon> davidrawson: this isnt a support channel try #ubuntu , but you can use "mount"
<persia> davidrawson: There's heaps & heaps of options, but you'll probably get a better answer in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-foo for some local help.
<davidrawson> i'm banned from #ubuntu for some reason...
<persia> !channels
<ubotu> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
<imbrandon> davidrawson: then you need to speak to the #ubuntu-ops, that still dosent make this a support cahnnel
<persia> davidrawson: Try looking in the channel list in the help.ubuntu.com link, and pick a local #ubuntu near you.
<Rotund> imbrandon, uploaded again
<imbrandon> kk
<Rotund> now says hardy
<nxvl> imbrandon: replied
<imbrandon> wow, no ITP or RFP for mugshot , nor is it listed in unable-to-be -packaged
 * persia suspects there are about 500 packages of ubuntu interest in that state
<imbrandon> yea but seeing how many people in debian/ubuntu use it, and jdub did some initial packing over 2 years ago
<imbrandon> ... :)
<persia> imbrandon: Does it show in the debian-legal archives?
<Rotund> Yeah.  Well, I think most people were just getting it from David Love
<imbrandon> persia: i was just about to look :)
<Rotund> imbrandon, was an ITP debian bug #373571
<ubotu> Debian bug 373571 in wnpp "ITP: mugshot -- Client for integration between Mugshot and the Linux desktop" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/373571
<Rotund> whoa.  That was cool
 * persia hugs ubotu
<imbrandon> Rotund: hrm i might have missed it
 * imbrandon looks
<Rotund> it's closed now.  Looks like the Trademark thing came up then
<Rotund> looks like they couldn't get a sponsor
<Rotund> jdub even commented on it initially
<somerville32> persia, If I can't reproduce the bug but I don't see something the changelog really, should I just close the bug in the changelog or do normal triage?
<somerville32> Ex. lp #134727
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134727 in zim "zim: find option (Ctrl-F) disappears after the first time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134727
<persia> somerville32: If you can reproduce the bug in the old version, but can't reproduce in the new version, closing in the changelog is nice.  If you can't reproduce in the old version, then normal triage for non-reproducible issues applies.
 * somerville32 ponders how to test both at the same time.
<persia> The reasoning being that it's easier to track which revision closes a bug when it's in the changelog instead of being in a bug comment.
<persia> Chroots, VMs, and multiple HW environments may help...
<somerville32> I can use my pbuilder chroot
<persia> somerville32: I seem to remember hearing that getting an X instance running on a VT from a pbuilder-chroot was a little tricky.  Not to tell you not to do that, but to warn you it may require a little fussing.
<somerville32> doh
<Hobbsee> isn't it a case of bindmounting .Xauthority, among other things?
<imbrandon> hrm i wonder when the next TB meeting is.
 * imbrandon looks
<persia> Hobbsee: Do you need to do that?  For a normal chroot, you don't.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, a chroot.  perhaps not.  pbuilder you do
<StevenK> If I want to run X apps under schroot, I specify -p only, schroot does the rest
 * Hobbsee just runs the development release, and does it that way
<persia> Ah.  Right.  I knew there was extra fussiness.  Thanks.
<StevenK> For pbuilder, you need to bind mount /tmp and /home
<Hobbsee> StevenK: does sbuild explode if it can't find the .orig.tar.gz, btw?
<StevenK> Yeah
<persia> StevenK: Is that exporting $DISPLAY only, or running a separate instance?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: how badly, and how does it explode?
<StevenK> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2312/
 * persia notes that sbuild will download a remote .orig.tar.gz if it has a remote .dsc and the orig.tar.gz is in the same apparent directory on the server
<persia> Oh.  Right.  It also tries to download it from the archives if it's not in ./
<somerville32> Hobbsee, I want to do this for an older release.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah right, so it does exit, and not freeze or something
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Right
<somerville32> This is going to take a long time
<somerville32> 15 bugs, 3 versions to test
<somerville32> *~15
<somerville32> and my computer is sloow :(
<persia> somerville32: But think how satisfying it will be to have a changelog entry that closes 15 bugs that you can point at when people ask what you did for Ubuntu :)
<somerville32> How popular is Zim anyway?
<davidrawson> invader Zim?
<persia> We had a user who self-identified as a SF Author swing by the other day, and ask about it, reporting that the new upstream was really nice.  Last month another couple users were complaining to me about it.  I don't usually see that much traffic about any single universe package.
 * somerville32 makes a chart to track the bugs
<somerville32> I'm going to see if I can confirm them in 0.19 (Gutsy)
<somerville32> See if they're fixed in 0.20 (Current Hardy)
<somerville32> And than see if they're fixed (or fixable) in 0.23 (candidate)
<persia> somerville32: That sounds like a sane strategy.  Your changelog should include all the 0.20 -> 0.23 fixes.
<ScottK> persia: Mess up a clamav upload and you will.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  That's why I don't do that :P
<ScottK> Additionally being the last person to upload it when $NEWVERSION comes out is also sufficient
<somerville32> So
<somerville32> Does anyone here have amd64?
<persia> ScottK: Sure, but what was the last package that had never received an Ubuntu upload, and which you do not maintain for Debian, for which you received three users feedback in two months?
 * persia does, but not in combination with bandwidth for a bit more
 * ScottK looks around for RAOF
<somerville32> persia, Can you test 0.19 and 0.20 to see if it freezes when the sidebar is opened? :P
<ScottK> He had it
<ScottK> had/has
<ScottK> persia: That, never
<persia> ScottK: Right.  That's why I said zim was special (it meets those criteria)
<ScottK> Agreed.
<persia> somerville32: Not any time soon.
<somerville32> Anyone else here amd64?
<TheMuso> No sorry.
<TheMuso> As much as I'd like one.
<imbrandon> somerville32: i have access to one ( but its 32bit OS )
<imbrandon> why?
<somerville32> bug #132765
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 132765 in zim "zim freezes when opening the sidebar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132765
<somerville32> Can you confirm if it freezes when the sidebar is opened on 0.19 (Gutsy) and 0.20 (Hardy)? (or just one)
<imbrandon> actualy neither i can do, its 32bit os, your wanting a 64bit
<StevenK> TheMuso: Then buy one? :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: I would if circumstances allowed.
<imbrandon> brandon@presario:~$ uname -a
<imbrandon> Linux presario 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Sun Oct 14 23:05:12 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
<imbrandon> brandon@presario:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep name
<imbrandon> model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+
<imbrandon> e.g. 64bit CPU but 32bit OS
<imbrandon> sorry somerville32
<somerville32> :]
<StevenK> imbrandon: There is a more proper way to check for '64-bit capableness'
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea, but i was lazy :)
<StevenK> steven@liquified:~% grep -wc 'lm' /proc/cpuinfo
<StevenK> 1
<imbrandon> yea but that dont tell you if the OS is 64bit also :)
<StevenK> % linux32 uname -m
<StevenK> i686
 * StevenK smirks
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> sides thats my step-fathers computer, he might not like it if i arbitratrly install things, but then again he might not notice
<imbrandon> LOL
<imbrandon> i only have ssh access to "help when he breaks something" since i switched him from XP to Gutsy
<imbrandon> :)
 * StevenK kicks GTK and Hildon Input Method
 * StevenK kicks Firefox and XUL while he is at it
<persia> StevenK: Be careful: firefox is made of tar...
<imbrandon> heh this all2iso guy just grabbed random *2iso utilities and put them in one zipfile, half are already in debian/ubuntu seperately
<imbrandon> zul: any word on getting atleaste fatx fs in l-u-m ? or are you waiting on me ?
<imbrandon> ( for hardy )
<davidrawson> guys! guys!
<imbrandon> ?
<ScottK> davidrawson: It's still not a support channel here.
<somerville32> davidrawson, what?
<davidrawson> nothing
<Rotund> imbrandon, Could you also put a firefox restart when firefox-mugshot is installed or updated?
<Rotund> I mean the notification
<Rotund> Now he's banned on 2 ubuntu channels =)
<Hobbsee> channels_he's_banned_in++
<Hobbsee> Rotund: 3, actually.
<Hobbsee> not sure if he's gone in -offtopic as well
<Rotund> wow
<imbrandon> Rotund: ok
<Rotund> imbrandon, Thanks.  I'm intrigued to see how they look, but first, I must code
<somerville32> Is there a sensible-file-browser command or something?
<nxvl> how do i apply a debdiff?
<persia> somerville32: What do you want to to launch?  nautilus/delphin/etc?
<nxvl> debdiff foo.dsc < foo.debdiff?
<imbrandon> nxvl: patch -p0 <name_of.debdiff
<somerville32> persia, I want desktop agnostic
<persia> nxvl: patch.  There's a sample command for testing debdiffs in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> somerville32: Right.  I'm just trying to understand which sorts of things you would be launching.
<somerville32> Like Thunar/Nautilus
<persia> Right.  Now, check the alternatives listing for things that link to those binaries :)
 * somerville32 wonders how to do that
 * persia thinks there is an /etc/alternatives tree with a heap of symlinks, and that ls -l could help, but there may be some tool available in the package containing update-alternatives, or a better way.
 * somerville32 doesn't think there is anything for it
<RAOF> ScottK: Still after amd64 testing?
<nxvl> thnx
<persia> somerville32: If you think it'd be useful, you could build a catalogue of related programs, and propose a virtual alternative in a spec.  Should be easy to implement, but best to get people discussing it.
<somerville32> persia, It should really depend on what DE is running
<persia> somerville32: How do you mean?  If users have a preferred file browser, shouldn't they get that, instead of the DE default?  (I'd agree that DE defaults should have higher default alternatives priorities)
<somerville32> persia, If I have Ubuntu and than I install Xubuntu
<somerville32> If we relied on an alternative
<somerville32> Than when I go back to gnome, it'll launch Thunar
<somerville32> ie. It'll work people to start using just the one across multiple DEs installed
<RAOF> somerville32: Were you after the zim amd64 testing?  It either works in 0.20-1 (hardy), or I don't understand that bug report.
<somerville32> s/work/force
<somerville32> RAOF, Ok. Can you try 0.19 for me too?
<RAOF> That'll require a reboot, but yeah.
<persia> somerville32: actually, given that Ubuntu is usually considered higher priority that Xubuntu, you might get nautilus in Xubuntu if you weren't careful.  Like I said, if it were to be done, you would want many people to find exceptions for a robust solution.
<somerville32> No
 * RAOF installs a newer nouveau snapshot, then reboots.
<somerville32> Xubuntu has high priority
<somerville32> If you install Ubuntu and than Xubuntu
<somerville32> You get the Xubuntu usplash
<persia> Ah.  Nifty (odd, but nifty).  Then yes, you'd get Thunar in GNOME.
<RAOF> somerville32: I can't reproduce in Gutsy, either.
<somerville32> RAOF, thanks :]
<somerville32> RAOF, Try creating a link? Does it freeze?
<RAOF> somerville32: Nope.
<somerville32> Thanks
<somerville32> 6 bugs left :]
<somerville32> 4 of them wishlist
<nxvl> why is that always on the debdiff apears /tmp/(some characters) before the filename?
<persia> nxvl: Install the patchutils package to make them go away :)
<StevenK> That's if they don't use the same .orig, then debdiff has to unpack both of them and diff -ur them
<persia> (which is what it does by default if "interdiff" is not installed)
<StevenK> I still see that and interdiff is installed
<nxvl> i forgot patchutils /o\
 * nxvl searches on the wiki
<persia> StevenK: For the same orig.tar.gz?
<StevenK> persia: No, for different orig tarballs
<persia> StevenK: Right.  If you have the same orig.tar.gz, debdiff tries to do an interdiff.  If interdiff isn't installed, it falls back to the full unpack diff.
<nxvl> persia: with which tool is that i make them disapear? filterdiff, doesn't it?
<persia> nxvl: If you have patchutils installed, and you have the same orig.tar.gz, debdiff shouldn't produce the /tmp/... markers.
<nxvl> there is a tar.gz
<nxvl> but without the orig. part
<nxvl> (on the name)
<persia> nxvl: Ah.  Right.  Native.  In that case, you'll get it anyway (no diff.gz).
<nxvl> nop, there isnt
<persia> To unpack/apply, use `patch -p4 < ../foo.debdiff`
<nxvl> oh ok
<nxvl> so it's fine to upload the debdiff with the /tmp/... part in this specific casE?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> then uploading
<somerville32> persia, The new version doesn't appear to close any of our bugs
<nxvl> should i report an ubuntu problem to debian or just ping the DM?
<persia> somerville32: Hmm..  I heard that 0.20 closed a couple of our bugs, but hadn't looked at 0.23.  Too bad.
<persia> nxvl: If the problem can be reproduced on Debian, it's better to open a BTS report than bug the maintainer.
<nxvl> the thing is, that i have a FTBFS, it apears to be because sh point to dash, and on debian to bash (or something like that says the DM)
<nxvl> and it has bash syntax, and sh as interpreter
<persia> It's a valid bug in Debian to require /bin/sh == /bin/bash for build.
<nxvl> so, it's kind of reproduced on debian
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> so i need to report it?
<nxvl> i have ping the DM some days ago and tell him about the problem
<persia> nxvl: You don't *need* to report it, but everyone will be happier if you do.
<nxvl> persia: if it's better to report it, i think i need to do it
<nxvl> :P
<somerville32> nxvl, We're glad you have a conscious
<persia> The reason it's better to use the BTS than just email the maintainer is that it allows other people to see the possible problem, and comment, which may help the maintainer, and certainly reduces the number of different people who complain to the maintainer.
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> 0.23 introduces a bug :/
<somerville32> oh
<somerville32> but it fixes one too! :)
<nxvl> somerville32: which package?
<somerville32> zim
<nxvl> well
<nxvl> done with my package
<nxvl> now time to sleep
<nxvl> i have a final tomorrow
<nxvl> :(
<nxvl> i hate final exams
<somerville32> persia, I take it you'll sponsor?
<nxvl> somerville32: suscribe u-u-s
<somerville32> go to bed nxvl
<persia> somerville32: Not unless I can get my bandwidth sorted: I suspect someone else will get to it faster.  If you're ready, push the interdiff to U-U-S.
<somerville32> :P nxvl
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> persia, What is wrong with your bandwidth?
<somerville32> persia, I can give you access to a server if you'd like to help relieve your bandwidth issue in the mean time.
<persia> somerville32: Some switch port is hung, but as the ethernet fabric spans hundreds of kilometers, there's some argument as to which company is responsible for resetting the switch.
<persia> somerville32: That doesn't help :)  Thanks anyway.
<StevenK> persia: Get the power company to reset the entire circuit? :-P
<somerville32> StevenK, Do you want to sponsor for me then?
<somerville32> Bug #165285
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
<somerville32> :]
<StevenK> somerville32: Not right now, I'm doing two things at once.
<persia> StevenK: Umm.  It's a fairly distributed and robust fabric, with 17 nuclear reactors feeding the power within just a 50 kilometer radius of where I sit.
<RAOF> Oh miro, why must you mock me.
<persia> somerville32: Just wait a bit.  Shouldn't take more than a few hours: the EU crowd will be in soon.
<somerville32> persia, Any other packages that need loving?
<persia> somerville32: Bug #163037 has a short list, if you like :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163037 in ubuntu "Many applications of universe are neglected and produce frustration in users" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163037
<StevenK> Oh dear.
<StevenK> Precious much?
<persia> somerville32: Also, If you do a search for "Undecided" bugs, and sort by most-recently-changed, and start at the end, you'll have a decent chance of finding ignored packages.
<RAOF> Oh, that's very helpful of miro.  It can error out in such a way that it maintains its lock on the dbus interface, and then every subsequent attempt to run miro fails.
<persia> RAOF: Is that different than the Xv bug that locks up all video players if one crashes in the right way?
<Hobbsee> well, you knew it was full of crack...
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> Heya dholbach
<RAOF> persia: Oooh, that's a new one on me.
<persia> Good morning Daniel.
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey somerville32
<dholbach> hey persia
<Hobbsee> oh noes, it's dholbach!
<dholbach> how ar eyou all doing?
<RAOF> This one can be fixed by a simple killing of all the various miro.real processes left hanging around though.
 * Hobbsee is dead
<somerville32> dholbach, Waiting for people to sponsor :]
<RAOF> Hey dholbach.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  Easy then :)
<somerville32> dholbach, Want to sponsor bug #165285 for me? :D
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
 * RAOF is procrastinating doing the washing up.
 * Hobbsee is pondering breakfast.
 * persia strongly encourages somerville32 to advertise less often
<dholbach> somerville32: I'll look into the sponsoring queue in a bit
<imbrandon> anyone else mind laying some eyes on this, its a self sponsor so i dont *need* advocates, just would liek some more eyes for the obvious stuff
<imbrandon> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=xbiso
 * imbrandon yawns, anyone ?
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
 * persia thinks imbrandon is impatient
<imbrandon> haha yea i am most of the time :)
<StevenK> persia: s/impatient/American/
<persia> StevenK: Well, I'd really like to agree with you, but I've known one or two exceptions in my time...
<dholbach> hey imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> considering it was a ~15 minute pack job i'm sure i overlooked something though
<persia> (plus, I think most North Americans share a similar willingness to wait)
 * imbrandon takes the opertunity to grab a mt dew
 * Hobbsee removes all of imbrandon's mt dew.
<imbrandon> nooooooooooooooo
<Hobbsee> no more!
<persia> imbrandon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2313/ is a quick-hit list, but be sure to run the automated checks.
<imbrandon> persia: lcc makefile is for lcc and its windows only
<imbrandon> ( and not supported upstream )
<persia> imbrandon: See, that's the kind of thing I miss when I don't build the package during a review :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> and most of that other stuff is dh_make defaults hehe going through them now :)
<imbrandon> and as for the bug i havent filed it yet ( lazy ) its a personal itch
<imbrandon> but i will
<persia> somerville32: Would you mind attaching the full interdiff?  -p1 makes it nice to read, but breaks the automated tools for generating the new diff.gz.
<somerville32> persia, k, one sec
<somerville32> uploaded
<persia> somerville32: Thanks.
<persia> somerville32: How does it close the bugs listed as closed?
<somerville32> persia, The bugs are fixed by the new release?
<persia> somerville32: Right.  I'll suggest you do something like was done for 0.18-1 in the changelog to explain the closures.
<persia> (and please avoid things like the last entry in 0.16-1: that's just unclear)
<somerville32> I can't access my server for some reason...
<somerville32> :/
<persia> somerville32: For extra points, updating the menu file to not call an absolute path, and point at a 32x32 .xpm would be nice.
<somerville32> Ok
<somerville32> hmm... this is weird. I can't access my server anymore where I build - like it dropped off the net or something, lol
<persia> somerville32: Thanks.  Other than that, it looks like a really nice update, and it's also nice to see that you intend to maintain this properly :)
<somerville32> persia, thanks :)
<imbrandon> somerville32: they discovered you had a rootkit installed :)
<imbrandon> just teasin
<somerville32> ;]
<gpocentek> somerville32: ping mr_pouit, he'll do it
<needhelp> Hi! I need your help. Iam collecting points in page listed below. If you be so kind, please click url below.(sorry for the spam, thank you) http://www.3dwhite.lt/?click=56a3cdcf22ccc7ab5f0a7f4d2bc900ff
<somerville32> :/
<somerville32> Well, I should get some sleep. 5am here :]
<huats> Morning everyone
 * TheMuso really thinks we need to unify the sponsorship process for universe and main.
<TheMuso> TO the point where we need to let core-devs know about possible changes we'd like to make, e.g interdiffs.
<frenchy> Hi all.
<persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, but many of the active universe sponsors can't upload to main.
<geser> morning
<dholbach> hi geser
<dholbach> persia: I think TheMuso wants the review part of the sponsorship process to be the same
<dholbach> there was just a discussion about interdiffs on #ubuntu-devel
 * persia needs to watch more channels when not actively contributing, and will review the backlog soon.
<dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/interdiff.log
<persia> dholbach: Saves me 27 minutes.  Thanks :)
<dholbach> de rien
<geser> Hi dholbach
<coNP[uni]> hey MOTUs
<dholbach> hiya coNP[uni]
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> damn fingers
<ivoks> anyone interested in merging wifi-radar?
<ivoks> i'm kind of busy with server related stuff, so i can't fully devote to its merge...
<dholbach> thanks a lot for the fixed font in the revu comments! kicks ass!
<frenchy> persia, dholbach: Hi there.  Got the man pages installing with dh_installman.  Thanks for the advice.
<persia> dholbach: About sponsoring: I'd really like to keep the UUS queue limited to candidates, especially as the workflow currently involves pushing things out of queue when they aren't ready for sponsoring yet (and these shouldn't be lost).
<dholbach> persia: I agree that they shouldn't be lost
<dholbach> it helps if somebody responsible is subscribed to the bug report to make sure that happens
<persia> dholbach: Maybe, but people like you are I are subscribed to hundreds of bug reports, and many Contributors would be very happy to find the not-ready patches and turn them  into ready-patches.
<geser> slomo: tomboy (main) build-depends on libmono-addins0.2-cil from mono-addins (universe) and is now in depwait
<dholbach> persia: what do you propose?
<slomo> so let's get mono-addins to main... otherwise we have a mono-addins copy in the tomboy tarball in main
<slomo> newer f-spot needs mono-addins too anyway
 * geser notes that there are 1274 packages with build failures on at least one arch in universe :(
<persia> dholbach: I proposed using the "patch" tag :)
<Fujitsu> geser: What happens if you exclude lpia and hppa.
<dholbach> persia: who takes care of those bugs?
<dholbach> persia: I wasn't implying that they all should get on the sponsoring queue
<geser> Fujitsu: I'd need to rerun my script to get those numbers
<geser> Fujitsu: http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/out.html
<Fujitsu> geser: Yay! needsbuild there too. Very good.
<persia> dholbach: Anyone who wants.  Contributors.  Developers.  etc.  I tend to pass the URL to people asking for something to do.
<dholbach> ok
<persia> I do agree that a tag is not necessarily the best way to do that, and hope that the "bug patch flag with icon" feature comes soon, but I'll go back to tagging if there's no traffic on that bug for a while more, and then look at rolling up the patches when I'm done tagging.
<txwikinger2> dholbach: I did one of the bitesizes for the bugday today
<dholbach> txwikinger2: rock on! :)
<dholbach> good work :)
<txwikinger2> thanks for the cheers :)
<txwikinger2> Did you see it already ?
<dholbach> txwikinger2: I got the wiki change email :)
<txwikinger2> Ah
<txwikinger2> I thought you get so much email.. you wouldn't read it
<txwikinger2> :D
<dholbach> I filter out the interesting bits :)
<dholbach> (regarding the wiki)
 * txwikinger2 feels honoured to be fallen inside the interesting bits
 * dholbach hugs txwikinger2
 * txwikinger2 hugs dholbach back
<dholbach> you're doing great work
<txwikinger2> Thanks
<dholbach> hey luisbg_
<frenchy> superm1:  Are you awake?
<luisbg_> dholbach, hey daniel!
<mok0> Is uudecode part of build-essentials?
<luisbg_> mok0, afair no
<mok0> So I need a build-dep`
<mok0> ?
<luisbg_> yes if you need uudecode to build the package
<dholbach> sharutils iirc
<mok0> great, thanks!
<txwikinger2> Hi mok0
<luisbg_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/build-essential
<mok0> luisbg_: ok... that's a very short list.
<luisbg_> mok0, yeap =)
<dholbach> much more important are its dependencies :)
<mok0> dholbach: but they don't include sharutils
<dholbach> right, you need to build-depends on it
<Hobbsee> oh no, kmos surely didn't....
<Hobbsee> and now i dont even get the savage pleasure of declining him.
<geser> Hobbsee: what did he this time?
<Hobbsee> geser: just tried to join u-u-s.
<dholbach> where "just" was in early august
<Hobbsee> er, yes, where "just" as in, i've just noticed it
<dholbach> hehe
<somerville32> Who is kmos?
<dholbach> Marco Rodrigues
 * dholbach gets back to modularising the PackagingGuide
<geser> somerville32: you don't know him?
<somerville32> I've seen the nick. Is there a story?
<geser> somerville32: ask Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> somerville32: there is, and you don't want to know about it.
<somerville32> lol, I'm sure it is good story, lol
<Hobbsee> might involve lots of head smashing on your part, though
<somerville32> It'll help me wake up
<Hobbsee> somerville32: Kmos is probably the most disruptive motu-hopeful we've ever had.
<dholbach> better do something useful with your head... like do a merge or something :)
<somerville32> Is he the guy who screwed up X?
<somerville32> Oh, ok lol
<Hobbsee> somerville32: he's gone from closing bugs at random, to mass filing sync requests, to mass filing removal requests, to then making promises that he has no right to make.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: each time, he says he wont do it again, and then finds something more disruptive to do
<Hobbsee> somerville32: he manages to remember information for short periods of time.  i've had him forget (willfully, or otherwise) information in just under an hour.  He then claims that he was never told the information.
<Hobbsee> somerville32: he's also one of the few to have been thrown out of debian-games too, and attempted to be thrown out of ubuntu.
<somerville32> Thats sad :(
<somerville32> Does he still hang around?
<Hobbsee> somerville32: each time, he appears to have little-to-no consideration of others, and also likes randomly pinging people so they can action whatever he wants done - even though it's far from urgent.
<dholbach> yes and he's been doing much better work in the last weeks
<Hobbsee> yes, he's still around somewhat, but much quieter.
<Hobbsee> and various people have stepped down from the sponsorship queue due to him.
<dholbach> the only positive thing I can say about the whole mess is that I hope that the MC will be able to deal with things like that better next time
<Hobbsee> somerville32: to top it off, the best part is that he doesn't believe he should have to learn to do things right, because he's not looking to become a MOTU, he's only looking to contribute to ubuntu.
<geser> I hope there will be no next time
<somerville32> Eww... thats sick :(
<Hobbsee> somerville32: that was my opinion, yes.
<dholbach> geser: what I meant is that the MC should step up in such cases earlier and help fixing the situation
<Hobbsee> dholbach: will they, though?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it's on their charter
<Hobbsee> where is this charter?
<dholbach> in their wiki page
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
 * somerville32 reads logs and cries.
<TheMuso> Is it possible to use reportbug in Debian to file a bug against a source package?
<broonie> TheMuso: Yes.
<TheMuso> broonie: Right.
<broonie> TheMuso: It'll fall back to checking a source package if it can't find a binary (I think running it in an unpacked source does something useful too but ICBW).
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<frenchy> persia: I've had 3 attempts at asking #ubuntu-mythtv to help test my application.  I've had very little response except one guy who was a KDE zealot (non-MOTU). superm1 came to my rescue and said that he'd second it if I could get someone to test because he's in the US and they don't use DVB.
<frenchy> persia: Apart from that, I've had no luck.
<persia> frenchy: That makes it easier, you only need one.  Of course, that might still be hard.  You might try asking in #ubuntu-testers, or on the ubuntu-users ML, or advertise in a blog post, but at least someone should test it and show it working before it gets uploaded.
<frenchy> persia: Thanks.  Hear ye, Hear ye ... the Frenchy broadcasting system is on the air!
<frenchy> Are there any MOTUs that have a DVB card (now including ATSC) that would like to try a very, very, most extremely awsome GNOME based DVB application?
<frenchy> It has an EPG built into the interface ... this week only ... 2 for the price of one.
<frenchy> persia: Do you think that it's my approach that's putting people off?
<frenchy> :)
<persia> frenchy: I don't know.  Do you have any users?
<frenchy> persia: Yeah, all over the world.
<persia> frenchy: Then why not get some of your users to "test", and write testimonials :)
<frenchy> persia: But that might be because there's no alternative other then to go to KDE apps.
<frenchy> persia: Hmmm ... Oh man ... yeah I've got some very pushy people ... I'm not sure that you want them ... who/where do they send these "death threats" to?
<frenchy> persia: To the MOTU mailing list?
<persia> frenchy: Hmm.  That's another interesting question.  I don't know the right answer.  I'm not sure about the MOTU ML, as when users request software there, sometimes it results in people telling them to go file a bug.
<persia> Does anyone else have any ideas about how to connect frenchy's userbase with REVU advocates?
<frenchy> Is ack'ing the same as advocating?
<persia> frenchy: ACK is acknowledge.  We do that to confirm requests that need ~ubuntu-dev or ~ubuntu-core-dev approval, before being sent to the appropriate party.  We use "advocate" to describe the act of stating a package is fit for the archive on REVU.  These terms are often confused, so the answer may be yes.
<frenchy> persia: Ta.
<frenchy> Ok here's my last offer ... if there are any Canberrans in the audience ... I will drive to your house and give you my USB DVB-T card for a week.  :)
<Hobbsee>  canberran.  crazy-type.
<frenchy> Hobbsee:  Heeeelllllooooo ... did you read my last post.  I _am_ crazy ... I'm a developer on the edge.  :)
<mok0> frenchy, perhaps you can help this guy: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/18814
<mok0> frenchy: then he may even try out your app in return :-)
<frenchy> mok0: Is he a MOTU?  I have plenty of users.  No MOTUs :(
<mok0> frenchy: MOTUs are short in demand...
<persia> (MOTUs with DVB cards who run GNOME more so...)
<mok0> ... and living in Canberra...
<persia> mok0: living in Canberra is only an alternative to having a DVB card.  DVB cards are available for home-delivery loan to MOTUs in Canberra.
<minghua> Heh.  What is a DVB card BTW?
<frenchy> Digital Video Broadcasting - Digital TV
<frenchy> http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB_Standard
<slytherin> Where do I add 'Homepage' field in control file, in 'Source' section or 'Package' section
<mok0> frenchy: Is it streaming H264 video for digital TV?
<frenchy> slytherin: Standards-Version: 3.7.2
<frenchy> Homepage: https://launchpad.net/me-tv
<frenchy> .
<frenchy> .
<minghua> Ah, not accepted in US.  No wonder I've never heard of it.
<ScottK> slytherin: If you want to over-ride the source package's Homepage field on a per binary package basis you can do that too.
<slytherin> ScottK: There is no homepage field as of now. So 'Source' is the right section, right?
<frenchy> mok0: It might be ... but I don't think that it's part of the DVB standard which seems to be mostly MPEG2.
<ScottK> slytherin: Yes.
<mok0> frenchy: I don't think we can recieve DVB in Denmark yet
<persia> mok0: It just depends on how much voltage you apply to your antenna :)
<slytherin> mok0: According to this link, you are wrong. http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/denmark/
<Ng> ooh, dvb :)
<mok0> slytherin: "...Viasat and TDC organised the trial, which involved 20 participants."  :-(
<Ng> it's doing pretty well generally in europe, so it may well appear in denmark and other places :)
<frenchy> mok0: Really?  I have seen no mention of H264 of Linux TV ... but I don't know everything.  Thanks, I'll take a look.
<mok0> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T
<Ng> there's been talk of HD DVB in the UK soon, which would kinda imply H.264 I suspect
<Ng> there has also been talk of encrypting it :/
<mok0> Which is cool because then you can dump TV directly on your iPod
<mok0> Ng: Fortunately, we have DVD-Jon on our side ;-)
<Ng> mok0: I dislike the idea of potentially breaking the law to watch a free service I'm funding with my TV licence though
<slytherin> Ng: +1
<mok0> Ng: Well, you know, if everybody breaks the law, then they'll have to change the law, wont they?
<Ng> or put us all in prison ;)
<slytherin> I would really like to have content available in theora/dirac as an option.
<frenchy> Ohh ... is H.264 part of the new DVB-T/H thingo.  i.e. DVB-Handheld.
 * persia suspects the "put everyone in prison, unless they fail to come to anyone's attention" model will be used.
<mok0> Send all off to G'mo
<frenchy> Ng: We have HD DVB here.  Are you telling me that they only have DVB in SD in the UK?
<broonie> Mostly.
<persia> mok0: From the UK?
<mok0> persia: I'm in Denmark
<broonie> There is an area in London with HD but for the most part there is no HD coverage.
<Ng> frenchy: I think they have a single transponder going for tests in some areas, but otherwise yeah it's all SD
 * persia thought that UK laws & DVB rollout was under discussion
 * mok0 thinks that public TV is paid for by the public and should be _free_
<broonie> They're switching everyone over to SD DVB and once that's done they're going to reuse the bandwidth used by the analogue bandwidth
<broonie> for HD
<broonie> s/bandwidth/broadcasts/
<Ng> broonie: and boosting the SD DVB signal, aiui (which they badly need to do imo)
<Ng> I have clear line of sight to Crystal Palace a few miles away and I still can't reliably watch all of the channels
 * broonie got pretty good reception most of the time last time he used freeview.
<frenchy> I don't understand, there's a ton of transmitters in the UK ... see /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/dvb-t/uk-*
<broonie> Almost all SD only.
<frenchy> Yes, but digital/DVB at least, right.  So you get the extra services like EPG.
<broonie> Yes.
<mok0> a
<frenchy> broonie:  Ng: are either one of you MOTUs with a DVB card?
<mok0> mok's TLA vocabulary exhausted. Rebooting...
<broonie> Sorry, I don't fulfil either criteria.
<Ng> frenchy: I'm not a motu (yet) but I do have a DVB card (hauppauge pci nova-t) and I'm seriously considering getting a second (usb) one
<slytherin> totem supports DVB viewing, doesn't it?
<Ng> frenchy: I'd be happy to test stuff, but most of the time my card is being used by VDR ;)
<somerville32> Why don't we have a developer directory like debian has?
<Ng> slytherin: if it doesn't now it will do
<slytherin> Ng: afaik, it is supported with xine backend. gstreamer support is coming up.
<persia> somerville32: We have some of that info in Launchpad.
<Ng> slytherin: that sounds about right
<somerville32> persia, Not phone numbers
 * persia appreciates that fact
 * StevenK too
<broonie> somerville32: I'm not sure how high quality the information in db.debian.org is, though.
<broonie> And stuff like that is only accessible to DDs.
<somerville32> lol
<persia> broonie: Hmm..  Maybe it's not so bad then.  As long as random fredricktonians don't have my phone number, I'm less disturbed.
<broonie> Yeah, that would be terrifying.
<persia> Note that WHOIS used to have that for everyone interesting, but it was a shorted list back then...
<frenchy> slytherin: totem-xine definitely does.
<persia> s/ted/ter/
<frenchy> Ng: yeah, there's a lot of people using VDR and Myth ... but they are full blown media centers.  My wife wanted to watch TV and surf the web like she did under win XP>
<frenchy> .
<Ng> frenchy: if your front end could talk to VDR so I don't have to use their horrific menus, you'd have me using it all the time, but I'm still happy to test stuff if you need it
 * StevenK has evil plans for a Mythbuntu box
<frenchy> Ng: I thought of doing that but both of them looked ridiculously crazy to set up.  It'
<Ng> frenchy: vdr certainly isn't friendly ;)
<frenchy> s a bit easier now with Mythbuntu.  But still there's a lot of complexity there that I thought was unnecessary.  Me TV needs nothing but a channel.conf ... and soon not even that.
<Ng> frenchy: cool :)
<frenchy> It stores the EPG in a local XML file.
<frenchy> Ng: The other thing about them is that you need a remote or keyboard.  You can do everything with a mouse on Me TV ... it's all my wife needs to watch TV and surf the web.
<frenchy> Ng: Sorry, I'm not Myth/VDR bashing ... they just don't suit me (or my wife).  They are great apps ... I like LinuxMCE ... it's looking real nice.
<frenchy> So after several hours of rallying ... if anyone with a DVB card (MOTU or not) is interested in in trying my application.  It's on REVU at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv.  Or you can use my PPA at https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-lamothe/
<frenchy> Sorry https://launchpad.net/~michael-lamothe/+archive
<dholbach> gnarf.... I hate it, when I forget the tea I was just making - I usually remember when I spend an hour or something at "oh, let's take a short look at this problem again"
<gpocentek> dholbach: there are simple applets which warns you when the tea is ready ;)
<gpocentek> warn*
<dholbach> yeah, I should use those
<dholbach> ironically timer-applet was the first piece of software I ever packaged
<gpocentek> :)
<mok0> dholbach: kteatime - KDE utility for making a fine cup of tea
<mok0> teatime - Gnome Panel applet to reminds you when your tea is ready
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> thanks mok0
<somerville32> What about xfce4?
<mok0> What are the guidelines for setting the bug Status in LP?
<somerville32> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugTriage
<mok0> I still don't quite understand... when I upload a debdiff, I set the bug status to "Fix Released" or "Fix Committed"?
<ScottK> Fix Committed.
<norsetto> mok0: confirmed
<ScottK> what norsetto said
<norsetto> mok0: beautiful icons by the way
<ScottK> Fix Released means it's in the archive.
<mok0> norsetto: thanks :-)
<txwikinger2> Does that also count upload to LP or only upload to bazaar?
<ScottK> txwikinger2: Since upload to bazaar isn't in our work flow, I'm not sure why it would count for anything.
<txwikinger2> ah .. ok
<somerville32> ScottK, Bazaar not in our workflow?
<ScottK> somerville32: Nope
<somerville32> ScottK, A number of our packages are maintained in bazaar branches
<ScottK> somerville32: Some individuals choose to do that, but it's not part of the standard MOTU work flow.
<somerville32> Umm... I'm pretty sure there was an accepted spec
<somerville32> Maybe it only applied to main
<ScottK> If someone needs sponsorship, Bazaar  isn't the way to get the broadest audience
<ScottK> somerville32: If you find something, let me know.
<ScottK> somerville32: The canonical (sorry for the pun) source for Universe is a Debian source package.  Any VCS use is a convenience.
<somerville32> ScottK, And if someone uploads the fix to bazaar then it is fix committed
<ScottK> Sure.  By that definition though uploading a fix to any random web page counts too.
<persia> somerville32: For upstream, yes.  For Ubuntu tasks, please no: Fix Committed typically means there was some upload, but something is happening oddly, and the results are not available.
<somerville32> For example, we manage xubuntu-default-settings (along with a number of other packages) in bazaar
<ScottK> somerville32: Who's the Maintainer for the package?
<norsetto> mok0: this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue should cover all that concerns submitting bugs to the sponsors queue
<txwikinger2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status -> Fix Committed
<somerville32> If I fix a bug on xubuntu-default-settings in the bazaar branch but I didn't upload it, I'm going to mark it fix committed
<mok0> norsetto: thanks, will take a look!
<norsetto> mok0: thanks, if you find anything confusing or unclear let us know
 * persia reviews w.u.c/Bugs/Status and hops that Bzr maintained packages that follow that workflow have special teams set in the Maintainer field.
<persia> s/ps/pes/
<somerville32> "Fix Committed is not to be used when a patch is attached to a bug"
 * ScottK agrees with persia.  Such packages are outside the normal MOTU workflow and can pretty well do what they want.
<ScottK> somerville32: Where's that from?
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<txwikinger2> ScottK:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<persia> somerville32: You're describing a valid workflow, but not the one that MOTU tends to use.  Both are good, but they are different.
<somerville32> "#
<somerville32> For package maintainers, the changes are pending and to be uploaded soon (it's what PENDINGUPLOAD was in Bugzilla)
<somerville32> #
<somerville32> Fix Committed is also used when an updated package exists in a -proposed repository i.e. feisty-proposed"
<mok0> norsetto: It is not clear from the description if it is the contributor or the sponsor who is allowed to set the bug status
<persia> somerville32: We typically use Fix Committed to mean "it's in -proposed", or "it's in unaccepted", or "the uploader made a stupid mistake, and is chasing it now".
<mok0> norsetto: In fact, it appears to be the sponsor...
<norsetto> mok0: the first section is for contributors, the second for sponsors, and you are right that it could be marked better
<ScottK> somerville32: I'm pretty sure that's somewhat obsolete.  There was a big discussion on one of the ML recently about this topic.
<ScottK> mok0: Please edit it to clarify (once you understand) as this has long been a weakness in our documentation.
<somerville32> Fix Committed seems, to me, redundant to Fix Released for package maintainers
<persia> mok0: Both set it at various times.  When uploading a debdiff, please set to "Confirmed".  The sponsor will leave it in "Fix Commited" when they upload, and the changelog should change to "Fix Released".  The sponsor may set "In progress" at some point if they think it will take a while.
<persia> somerville32: In most cases, yes, which is why it is currently used for exceptional cases (like -proposed or unaccepted)
 * somerville32 nods.
<mok0> Confusion complete.
<RainCT> Hi
<somerville32> Hi
<txwikinger2> mok0: yes
<persia> mok0: I do apologize if I've managed to move all of somerville32's confusion to you by my mixed remarks.  Perhaps you'd like to ask a new question, and I'll try to answer more clearly?
<ScottK> txwikinger2: Please don't subscrbie Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe to bugs.
<ScottK> txwikinger2: I suspect it's ubuntu-universe-sponsors you wanted.
<mok0> persia: norsetto said that the contributor should set status -> Fix committed when uploading a debdiff, shortly after you said the sponsor should do it...
<txwikinger2> ok. sorry. I got confused
<ScottK> txwikinger2: Not a huge deal.  I unsubbed Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe, but didn't subscribe anyone.  Leaving that for you.
<norsetto> mok0: I said confirmed, not fix committed
<txwikinger2> Thanks ScottK: I appreciate that
<mok0> norsetto: ok, sorry for misquoting you
<norsetto> mok0: its correct that the sponsor should set it to fix committed when he uploads
<ScottK> mok0: That was me and I said just after to follow what norsetto said.
<persia> mok0: The wiki page is right.  Not every sponsor sets "Fix Committed" when they upload, but most tend to do so.  In the normal case, the changelog sets "Fix Released" within a couple minutes, so it usually doesn't matter.
<RainCT> persia: tomorrow is CC :)
<norsetto> do we really need to include that the sponsors queue should be used for freeze exceptions?
<mok0> ScottK :-) I thought norsetto's "confirmed" meant he confirmed what you said
<norsetto> or should we rather says after a freeze exception has been granted .....
<persia> RainCT: Yep.  Unfortunately, it's at 16:00 UTC.  I'm not sure I'll be up that late, but will put a testimonial on your wiki page if I get too tired.
<norsetto> mok0: I always confirm what scottk says (he has a big gun)
<RainCT> persia: ok, thanks :)
<mok0> :-D
<persia> norsetto: I'd rather keep it vague.  I consider there to be two purposes: 1) upload requests, and 2) ACK requests for teams that reject requests from non-ubuntu-dev (e.g. archive-admins).  If we get freeze exception requests or SUR requests, those should just be pushed to the right team.
<persia> The idea being that it's easier for people to always subscribe U-U-S than try to remember everything, and it's not that much trouble to redirect if required.
<mok0> Clarification of contributor workflow made in the wiki
<persia> mok0: Nice, small, clear change.  Thanks.
<txwikinger2> mok0: where?
<mok0> txwikinger2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<txwikinger2> Thanks mok0
<norsetto> can you guys please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue ? I made few changes that I would like you to check
<norsetto> note that syncrequest sets the bug status to new so, should we change the wiki page to "New" as an acceptable status for sync requests or should we file a bug against syncrequest?
 * persia notes that the "patch tag" might be going away soon, but not to remove it yet
<mok0> norsetto: did you save it? I don't see your mods
<norsetto> mok0: yes, perhpas my wireless is acting again, so, check in few seconds
<mok0> norsetto: see them now
<persia> norsetto: Looks good.  We'll likely need to update for the updated SRU and UVFe processes at some point, but worth waiting for those teams to review their processes as the cycle proceeds.
<geser> norsetto: afaik requestsync sets requests that need sponsoring on purpose to New and the sponsor sets it to Confirmed when ACKed
<afflux> Hi! I'd like to get my package in universe, so could any motu please have a second look at it (dholbach already had one): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gdecrypt ? Thanks!
<persia> norsetto: Also, I've nearly been convinced that interdiff isn't helpful, and am working on a process for a less confusing replacement.
<norsetto> geser: exactly, right now we specified "Incomplete" in the wiki page
<norsetto> persia: ok, lets change it then once that is done (I made a note to myself)
<geser> is the "sync" tag used by someone?
<persia> norsetto: That was my thought.  Let's target this cycle to get sponsorship properly documented, and try to sort coordination with main as well.
<persia> geser: Probably only me.
<jdong> persia: I found interdiff reconstruction to be quite painful yesterday while reviewing/sponsoring somerville32's perl module...
<jdong> persia: though I found the interdiff itself to be very helpful in reviewing
<geser> I didn't set the "sync" tag to any sync requests that I filed.
<persia> jdong: That seems to be the regular feedback.  I'm looking at a couple alternatives.
<norsetto> geser: I did for most, but forgot for some ....
<jdong> persia: maybe we can do an addon to REVU to facilitate reviewing new upstream releases, and it can generate interdiffs, debdiffs, and dgettable dsc's?
<persia> norsetto: Yes, but that's likely because I wrote somewhere that you should.  geser has a good point that it's likely useless.
<norsetto> persia: yes, I dutifully followed the procedure (well, almost dutifully...)
<geser> IMHO the "Note for sponsors" could need a better structure as the list is rather longish
<persia> jdong: I'm incredibly opposed to downloading an orig.tar.gz supplied by anyone not upstream and not in ~ubuntu-dev, so I won't support that, but it's not a bad idea in abstract.  The REVU code is open, and the team is always happy to get patch candidates.
<geser> is it possible to move the "main" point into their own subsections?
<xhaker> Hobbsee, can you please sponsor bug #164577 since you were the last uploader?
<norsetto> geser: please do :-)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164577 in libmtp "libmtp 0.2.2-2 merge from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164577
 * Hobbsee waits on ubotu
<xhaker> heh took him a bit :)
<Hobbsee> erm, not really
<xhaker> Hobbsee, why? i did the merge already
<jdong> persia: well there's gotta be a way for REVU to generate a trustable orig.tar.gz or perform/provide a review mechanism for the orig
<Hobbsee> because there's a comment on the bug from doko, and i need to look at it and think about it, and it's not to do with polarizing fibres.
<xhaker> there is a comment from doko?
<xhaker> it must be a secret comment
<Hobbsee> on the one from before, yeah
<xhaker> Hobbsee, can you please direct it to me? i don't think i've seen that
<persia> jdong:  The problem is that a .dsc has a md5sum for an orig.tar.gz, and would break for repacks, unless it was regenerated.  I think forcing reliable orig.tar.gz is for the next generation review system (see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ReviewProcessConvergence)
<geser> norsetto: done, IMHO it's better now
<norsetto> geser: oh yes, much more readable
<persia> geser: That's a nice set of changes.
<proppy> ã¯ã
<norsetto> looks like the tags in the sru sections are outdated, but most probably will be valid again soon
<norsetto> proppy: ã¯ã
<persia> That's not a greeting!
<norsetto> persia: yes, and I meant it
<proppy> persia: hi
<proppy> :)
<norsetto> proppy: do they relly write all this "ç§ã¯æã£ã¦ãã" for "I have" !?
<proppy> norsetto: ãããããããã¾ããã(I don't understand kanji yet)
<norsetto> proppy: arigato
<persia> Only in special contexts.  Usually the topic marker is implied by context (but this is well off topic)
<proppy> norsetto: I don't understand all the character so I can't help you with this yet
<persia> e.g. "æã£ã¦ãã" or even "æã£ã¦" is typically sufficient.
<StevenK> I'm vaguely curious as to what's proppy's not-a-greeting was
<norsetto> persia: ok, seems more logical
<proppy> norsetto: you should ask persia he looks like a accurate japanese writer :)
<norsetto> stevenk: altavista told me is "it is"
<StevenK> Ha
<proppy> norsetto: from what I've understand there were more than way to say a single thing, depend of the context and the people you're talking to
<norsetto> proppy: please use the referential obsequios form when talking to me
<norsetto> obsequoious?
<norsetto> obsequient?
<norsetto> oh well, use the referential one
<persia> norsetto: You don't want that.  It would take several buffers to say hello.
<StevenK> Haha
<persia> reverential?
<proppy> norsetto: ã©ããããããããã­ãããã¾ã
<norsetto> oh $deity
 * norsetto goes to untie his tongue
<proppy> norsetto: (it means take care of me, IIRC)
<persia> proppy: Just as a matter of correction: "ããããã¾ã ãããã¾ãã"
<proppy> persia: ãã¾ã  ?
<persia> proppy: Not quite.  It means "here you go"  "very polite 'goodness'"  "please do the favor of making"
<persia> proppy: object marker, "yet, still"
<proppy> persia: ok, ãããããã¾ã ããã¹ã¾ãã
<persia> Err.  Don't never use no double negatives
<proppy> persia: :)
 * txwikinger2 is dissy due to the fact that his client does not show utf8
<txwikinger2> later
<Hobbsee> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<mok0> What is the Standards-Version that allows for a Homepage: tag?
<persia> mok0: Ideally, you'd be running dpkg >= 1.14.7
<mok0> persia: the current one is 3.7.2
<persia> mok0: Right, but the Homepage: header isn't even in 3.7.2.2.  It's very very new, and mostly documented in lintian and dpkg at this point.  lintian is merged to Ubuntu, but dpkg is still outstanding, so even in hardy, it's a little odd.
<mok0> persia: ok, thanks. But where can I find a description of those standards? Google just gives me a bunch of ML posts
<geser> mok0: policy is often a little bit behind as a change need to show that is it used/works before it gets included into policy
<persia> mok0: debian-policy is best examined from the debian-policy package.  Specific lintian and linda tests are best examined in those packages, and the dpkg changelog that created "Homepage:" is available from http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/dpkg/current/changelog#versionversion1.14.7
<mok0> persia: ... but, then I can't really put a Homepage: field, _and_ a Standards-Version: 3.7.2 at the same time ? That would be a bug, right?
<geser> mok0: you might also want to look at the bugs for policy and the developer-reference
<persia> mok0: No, as policy doesn't specify you can't have a Homepage field.
<mok0> So, that means that unrecognized fields are just ignored?
<persia> mok0: Right, which means everything with a compliant Homepage: header built before the dpkg merge will either have a missing Homepage: or need to be rebuilt, but that's OK.
<mok0> persia: ok, thanks. I will browse the link above...
<mok0> Btw, it seems that Debian have started to incorporate git into their workflow. How will that affect Ubuntu?
<persia> mok0: Not at all: we import source packages post-git.
<mok0> persia: It's kinda neat, though
<mok0> I'd like to use it myself
<persia> mok0: Go ahead :)
<mok0> hehe
<mok0> I think they are using branches to store versions of the software instead of parallel directory trees... which is neat
<mok0> Also, it is easy to merge your debian/ tree into a new software release
<mok0> of course dpkg_* needs to know about .git so it can ignore it appropriately.
<persia> mok0: That should be merged in the next couple weeks :)
<mok0> persia: cool
<mok0> Unfortunately, canonical seems committed to bazaar
<mok0> Although I gather you could have an equivalent workflow there
<persia> mok0: Doesn't really matter: each package is different.  It's convenient to manage in bzr as LP is bzr, but several Ubuntu-maintained packages are in git (x.org, kernel, etc.).
<mok0> persia: yes, but we can't make use of git's capabilities when submitting patches etc
<effie_jayx> Could anyone help me find a bug I could work on...
<effie_jayx> I have tried 4 bugs now and I can't seem to find my way to contribute with a fix
<norsetto> effie_jayx: have you tried checking for the packaging tag?
<dholbach> effie_jayx: I'm sure seb128 wants me to answer http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO here :)
<norsetto> effie_jayx: don't listen to dholbach, he wants to bring you to the DARK side .....
<effie_jayx> lol
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach> norsetto: that's seb128 :)
<effie_jayx> is there a MOTU darkside?
<effie_jayx> hehe
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I know of the wiki for bugs
<norsetto> dholbach: isn't he dark?
<effie_jayx> but its seems to me I ma not up to packaging just yet
<dholbach> no, not really
<effie_jayx> there are some tricks to it than just following the recipe...
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  remember that bug we where looking at the other day
<dholbach> yeah, that was definitely not an easy one
<dholbach> what about the other 'upgrade' bugs?
<effie_jayx> I tried 2 more
<effie_jayx> and nothing :(
<effie_jayx> I want to see if I do a new bug with a little help choosing
<effie_jayx> I might be picking tough ones...
<norsetto> effie_jayx: packaging bugs are not requests for packaging, are bug which (most probably) are in the packaging for packages already made
<effie_jayx> norsetto, :S
<norsetto> effie_jayx: for instance, this look ok for you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/120064
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120064 in ghc6 "no manpage for ghc-pkg" [Low,Confirmed]
<RainCT> effie_jayx: bugs about .desktop files are usually easy
<norsetto> effie_jayx: if you do that, don't forget to send the man page to debian too
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  thanks for the heads up :D
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  let me see what I can do
 * jdong looks for a volunteer to package eclipse 3.3 ;-)
<RainCT> effie_jayx: np :)
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  if upstream does not have the manpage I have to make it?
<norsetto> effie_jayx: yes
<norsetto> effie_jayx: you can get info about the command with --help
<norsetto> effie_jayx: and/or look in what documentation is provided, either with the package or upstream
<effie_jayx> and I'm sure there is a guideline somewhere !
<xhaker> jdong, hello
<norsetto> effie_jayx: there is a ghc6-doc package too which may contain some good info on that command
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  Glasgow Haskell Compilation 6 ???
<xhaker> jdong, i'm interested in packaging eclipse 3.3
<effie_jayx> that should have quite a few command entries
<norsetto> effie_jayx: yes, yet another language for braindamaged hackers
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  I appreciate your bug suggestion ;)
<norsetto> effie_jayx: you can do man pages in tow ways
<norsetto> effie_jayx: sorry, two
<norsetto> effie_jayx: the I'm-a-real-man way; just a text editor and you
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  yep... I am taking the challenge
<RainCT> effie_jayx: there are many manpages in ubuntu-dev-tools if you want to have a look at some
<jdong> xhaker: awesome :)
<jdong> xhaker: I just have packages blocked by our lack of swt-gtk 3.3, so eclipse 3.3 is on my wishlist :)
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  that would be usefull
<xhaker> jdong, debian doesn't even have 3.3 yet
<effie_jayx> there is also a script, right? dh_make for generating a template
<effie_jayx> ?
<jdong> xhaker: that is correct.
<norsetto> effie_jayx: no, thats for a package skeleton
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  ohhh
<effie_jayx> ... ok
<xhaker> jdong, i am willing to help there.. but i don't think that it is possible yet.. because of build-deps?
<norsetto> effie_jayx: a couple of links I found uselful when I did my first man page (there might be better, just google around): http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/November2003/article309.shtml
<jdong> xhaker: which build-deps?
<RainCT> effie_jayx: dh_make creates a manpage template amongst the other files, but I usually just copy a random one and edit that one
<norsetto> effie_jayx: and this: http://www.linux.com/articles/34212
<RainCT> effie_jayx: ubuntu-dev-tools manpages can be browsed here if you don't want to download the source: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/files/themuso%40ubuntu.com-20071123205005-vg8k0ulftvw4k0s3?file_id=doc-20070809144355-bx46lrf0wsr2xktw-1
<xhaker> jdong, i might be mistaken.. in relation to that, eclipse build failed on i386 but not on lpia, that is strange.. can you trigger a rebuild?
<xhaker> jdong, i don't know who sponsored the upload.. but since you're interested
<norsetto> effie_jayx: apparently peter was very concerned about man pages for ghc6: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New]
<norsetto> effie_jayx: so you can close two bugs with a stone ....
<effie_jayx> so I prepare the manpage
<effie_jayx> and package the thing again with the new manpage
<jdong> xhaker: I don't have the power to trigger a rebuild :)
<effie_jayx> I'll get the manpage ready and I will be back here...
<norsetto> effie_jayx: yes, see my other messages too
<xhaker> jdong, ;) #ubuntu-java
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  I opened up the links and I am willing to work on it
<norsetto> effie_jayx: I mean, about the other bug
<jdong> xhaker: well I've got an exam in 10m, gonna leave things in your hands :)
<jdong> have fun!
<jdong> *vanishes*
<norsetto> bug 95985 | effie_jayx
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95985
<xhaker> hah, too bad.. i thought i had someone to chat about it :D
<effie_jayx> there is one ... but it doesnt cover runghc
 * effie_jayx check to reproduce bug
<joejaxx> Good Morning All :)
<brainsik> good morning
<RainCT> morning joejaxx
<brainsik> Once I get a debdiff patch onto a bug report, how do I go about getting someone to use it and rollout a new package?
<effie_jayx> one can build stuff off a debdiff right?
<brainsik> I assume so. This is how I recently got a security patch released.
<RainCT> effie_jayx: what do you mean? you can apply to the source and build it then
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  ajam
<jdong> effie_jayx: provided that it's not for a new upstream version, correct, a debdiff is sufficient to reconstruct a modified source package
<effie_jayx> jdong,  thanks for the clarification
<jdong> effie_jayx: sure thing :) I love your road-to-MOTU diary btw :)
<effie_jayx> jdong,  I am bit behind ...
<effie_jayx> but working overtime...
<jdong> effie_jayx: no worries, there's all the time in the world :) Good luck on your journey!
<effie_jayx> thanks
<mok0> effie_jayx: Link to your diary?
<effie_jayx> mok0, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourne
<effie_jayx> are you starting out as well?
<effie_jayx> mok0, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourney
<mok0> Got, thanks!
<mok0> effie_jayx: Hey, cool, I think I can learn something too!
<effie_jayx> mok0,  today's entry should be interesting
 * mok0 anticipates in excitement...
<effie_jayx> there is more than editing text when you make a manpage...
<jdong> effie_jayx: isn't that a part of the passage to manhood? ;-)
<norsetto> mok0: you should make him some icons for his log ;-)
<mok0> Hehe, yeah would be cool
<norsetto> effie_jayx: if you need help for your man pages ask jdong, he is a MASTER for those :-)
<jdong> aaaahhhhhh *runs*
<norsetto> * cough *
<mok0> effie_jayx: I hear the last part of the initiation is _secret_ :-)
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  I am doing ok...
<effie_jayx> mok0,  and yet very optional
<effie_jayx> ;)
<mok0> effie_jayx: You dress up in women's clothes and go around in bars... with a live penguin strapped to your head, making funny noises
 * effie_jayx drops MOTU journey
<effie_jayx> lol
<effie_jayx> not very encouraging...
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> effie_jayx: You have to prove you are worthy
<effie_jayx> of?
<mok0> joing the ranks of the MOTU
<mok0> :)
<RainCT> haha
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Of course that diary doesn't actually start at the beginning of the story.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  it doesn't
<effie_jayx> :D
 * ScottK recalls you doing at least a clamav merge (with some help) before.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  I did say some playing around with the tools... but If I had said something like... I played around with tools with the help of ScottK, it could have led to misinterpretations
<effie_jayx> ;)
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  credit is due...
<ScottK> LongPointyStick: Please note the next CC meeting ~23 hours from now and who's going up for membership.  You may want to show up.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<nenolod> http://lwn.net/Articles/257629/ <- a [misaccurate] story about in-progress deprecation of XMMS in Ubuntu universe and Debian and discussing Audacious (and also getting the details wrong on that, but oh well)
<ScottK> Other MOTUs who are fans of certain people may appreciate being at that meeting too.
<effie_jayx> ScottK,  you are the most patient person I know...
<ScottK> effie_jayx: Thanks.
 * ScottK laughs at that thought.  You must not know many people ;-)
<nenolod> i don't know anyone applying for membership on that list. oh well ;p
<nenolod> wait, no.
<nenolod> i do.
<nenolod> but i'm not familiar with their contributions to ubuntu
 * RainCT thinks cdbs rocks
 * mok0 agrees with RainCT 
 * LaserJock runs from the black magic
<RainCT> is there a way to automatically install the dependencies for a .deb?
<LaserJock> RainCT: how do you mean?
<Pici> gdebi does it iirc.
<jdong> RainCT: (1) gdebi (2) install the deb, then apt-get -f install
<mok0> debootstrap?
<jdong> RainCT: I prefer #1
<Pici> Me too.
<RainCT> gdebi just complains about the dependency here
<RainCT> and doesn't let me install
<nenolod> is the dependency in the ubuntu archive?
<LaserJock> I prefer 2)
<RainCT> I think so
<jdong> RainCT: then that means one of the deps is not available
<jdong> or is not the right version
<norsetto> rainct: you may also want to have a local archive for that
<RainCT> ah it might not be there.. I build it for hardy
<jdong> you are trying to install a hardy binary in Gutsy?
<RainCT> I *do* install hardy binaries in gutsy :)
<RainCT> I even have hardy in the sources.list (with a lower priority so that it only installs from there when I want)
 * LaserJock thinks you are nuts
<RainCT> but yes you are right, gdebi installs dependency now that I think about it, I guess I'll have to rebuild this one. thanks
<RainCT> hah
<LaserJock> RainCT: that's what a gutsy pbuilder is for, so you can make gutsy .debs :-)
<RainCT> well, actually you could make gutsy debs with dpkg-buildpackage
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's kinda nasty
<LaserJock> you have to install build deps and it can mess with your source package
<RainCT> yeh, that's true
<jdong> RainCT: you are nuts :)
<jdong> RainCT: it's not at all a good idea to be mixing Gutsy and Hardy at a binary level...
<jdong> if that actually worked with any level of reliability there would never have been Backports :)
<LaserJock> jdong: you can get away with quite a bit depending on what kind of package it is
<LaserJock> I'm writing a part of a book about packages and covering some backports
<jdong> LaserJock: before long it'll pull in a dependency chain that involves Hardy versions of core libraries
<LaserJock> and I was looking at all the PHP webapps, and of course most of them are binary compatible
<jdong> LaserJock: people have tried pin-priority mixing of N and N+1 over at the forums from prehistoric times, and it almost always resulted in at least one unbootable-system report a month
<jdong> I suppose someone with solid technical experience can deal with this situation better than the average forum user though ;-)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I was just surprised actually how compatible some packages are
<RainCT> well, I tend to avoid installing stuff that depends on newer versions of already installed libraries, or that needs a lot of dependencies from hardy
<LaserJock> I went through several _all packages installing gutsy .debs on dapper
<jdong> but ultimately it's something that I would never do to any of my systems, and is quite unsupported. If I saw a bug report for a package under my care for such a system configuration, I'd probably reject the bug report until they set up a less insane environment and reproduce.
<jdong> LaserJock: well _all's are typically a good exception :)
<LaserJock> jdong: right, that's why I said it kind of depends on what kind of package it is
<jdong> RainCT: if you often need to mix hardy and gutsy, look at prevu </shameless_plug>
<LaserJock> it's easy to pick some examples that are very binary compatible
<jdong> it is an automatic backporter that uses just one command, and even produces a local APT repo
<jdong> i.e. prevu foobar; apt-get update; apt-get install foobar
<RainCT> jdong: ah, sounds interesting. but I only have like 30 hardy packages anyways, so it isn't really worth it
<LaserJock> 30?!?
<imbrandon> 30!
<imbrandon> heya fellas
<RainCT> *rather 20
<jdong> that's quite a bit :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<jdong> I'd seriously recommend using a personal backporter, like prevu or pbuilder
<LaserJock> you guys ever wonder in -changes if a package is Main or Universe?
<jdong> prevu will probably be easier on you in that it creates an apt repo and also mangles versions automatically
<jdong> LaserJock: sometimes, yeah, though over time I've gotten a rough feel for what's in main and otherwise.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: not really, but i coul see how some could
<jdong> it'd be nice for the subject line or contents to note that more explicitly
<imbrandon> it'd be niceer to only have main + multiverse
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> err main + non-free
<imbrandon> seperation causes more work for little gain
<jdong> I agree
<jdong> the support line drawn in practice is not all that useful for the average end user
<jdong> though I'm not sure how important it is to canonical's support services
<jdong> I presume quite helpful for the fine print on their contracts ;-)
<LaserJock> well
<RainCT> jdong: that prevu works only for stuff in repos, or?
<RainCT> nvm :P
 * RainCT is going to do some python stuff before you kill me ;)
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to have an RSS feed of -changes (I get that now from Seveas) but I'd like to know easily if packages are in Main or Universe
<LaserJock> I wonder if I can have a script that parses his RSS feed and then adds in that info
<LaserJock> then spits out the feed again so I can put it into Google Reader
<RainCT> LaserJock: where is that feed?
<LaserJock> http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea should be fairly simple
<LaserJock> I can either screen-scrape LP for  component or rely on my local machine's apt cache
<imbrandon> i would use the apt-cache for speed
<RainCT> wow, that ubuntu-nl guys have everything lol
<jdong> RainCT: prevu can build from anything you want
<jdong> RainCT: apt, .dsc URL, a debianized source in the pwd, and even directly from LP
<RainCT> jdong: if I give it cement will it build me a house? :)
<jdong> RainCT: ;-) file a feature request :D
<RainCT> jdong: done :)
<RainCT> /me looks how jdong runs to check it
<adx> can someone take a look at a debdiff for me? i saw a simple bug and figured i'd try to fix it
<RainCT> adx: url? :)
<adx> http://www.tasteslikeburning.net/checkgmail_1.12-1ubuntu2.debdiff
<adx> want to make sure the formatting is correct before i attach it to the bug
<RainCT> adx: there's a typo in the changelog: configueration ;)
<jdong> adx: (1) consolidate bullet point, the * checkgmail is not necessary
<RainCT> closes: should be LP: if it's a bug in Launchpad
<jdong> adx: (2) closes: should be LP:
<RainCT> (Closes: is for bugs.debian.net)
<imbrandon> and gutsy should be hardy
<jdong> bug 164187
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164187 in checkgmail "Unsafe permissions on configuration directory" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164187
<jdong> adx: IMO the fix is incomplete
<jdong> a bad default permissions dir created by an earlier version is not fixed by this release.
<adx> jdong: good point
<jdong> adx: a better fix would be to refuse to start if any of the world permission bits are set, and off the user to chmod it o-rwx or abort and fix it themselves
<jdong> s/off/offer/
<jdong> and who approved this package for Universe in the first place?
<jdong> or is that a Debian-synced-over issue?
<jdong> I am shocked that it has a permission 777 mkdir hardcoded
<adx> it's actually an upstream issue. i was going to send the patch for the source to them also
<jdong> good judgement
<effie_jayx> norsetto, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1462
<lousygarua> hello
<effie_jayx> lousygarua,  hello
<lousygarua> effie_jayx, you happen to know by chance what is the base package for burning cd/dvd's? i'm having difficulty burning things no matter what software i use
<effie_jayx> lousygarua,  sorry ... I don't
<lousygarua> effie_jayx, ah well, nevermind then.
<oly-> i am trying to make a deb with dpkg-debhelper, im stuck on secret key not available when it hits the gpg bit, why would it be unavailable ?
<oly-> where should i be looking ?
<geser> oly-: do you have a gpg key?
<oly-> yes, and i put it on launchpad, as i read in the packaging guide
<RainCT> oly-: have you set the DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL global variables to the same values as your key?
<oly-> hum, that i did not do, :p
<geser> oly-: does the "author" in the last changelog entry match your key uid incl. the comment (if used)?
<oly-> okay, couple of things to check, i thought it was saying there was a problem with my key, :p
<oly-> i shall look into both of those and see if i can figure out where i have gone wrong
<geser> oly-: debsign uses the name from the " -- [...]" line at the end of the changelog entry to find the correct key
<geser> and the uid must match exactly
<geser> DktrKranz: Hi, I got my script running on http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~geser/build_status/
<DktrKranz> geser, nice. Did you solve rmadison -u issue?
<geser> DktrKranz: yes, I copied rmadison from hardy to my home
<DktrKranz> ah, nice workaround :)
<geser> and also fixed the template as I used features from genshi 0.4
<DktrKranz> geser, nice colours too! So we should redirect qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ to your link
<geser> DktrKranz: yes, please
<geser> DktrKranz: I didn't setup a cronjob for it yet
<DktrKranz> Fujitsu, mind moving qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs to http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~geser/build_status/ =
<DktrKranz> ?
<oly-> geser, you say i need to match the comment as well, is that in the order username comment e-mail
<oly-> because i do have a comment in there
<geser> oly-: yes, exactly as gpg --list-keys shows the uid
<oly-> yay, i got past the gpg bit now thxs :)
<alex-weej> can a MOTU add this patch to music-applet please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/music-applet/+bug/93284
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 93284 in music-applet "music-applet fails on second login session" [Undecided,New]
<alex-weej> thanks
<geser> alex-weej: can you prepare a debdiff?
 * somerville32 is home again.
<effie_jayx> I am at the last bit of the manpage... what do I do here... This manual page was written by #USERNAME# <#EMAIL#>,
<effie_jayx> for the Debian project (but may be used by others).
<effie_jayx> ???
<effie_jayx> somerville32,  pink floyd?
<effie_jayx> :D
<somerville32> No, I'm... just home again :P
<RainCT> effie_jayx: repalce it with your name and email :)
<RainCT> *replace
<effie_jayx> somerville32,  just made reference to pink floyd song...
 * effie_jayx sings ... â« home... home again
<somerville32> :)
<norsetto> is there anybody out there?
<geser> norsetto: no :)
<nxvl_work> o/
<norsetto> no ... no ... no ....
<nxvl_work> fighting with amarok2
<norsetto> (damn cheap echo effect ....)
<nxvl_work> norsetto: i made the changes to bootcd
<norsetto> nxvl_work: right, lets see what the DD will say, I'm not sure either that changing all the shebang to bash its a good solution either
<norsetto> either either ... oh my ....
<somerville32> :/
<nxvl_work> norsetto: he said he will release it on the next version
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, but what?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: and when? If its after DIF we might have a problem, so lets see
<nxvl_work> btw
<nxvl_work> on cereal, they have included my patch on debian
<nxvl_work> but i don't find the merge on MoM or DaD
<nxvl_work> we should sync it
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, whats the bug number again?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: 165030
<norsetto> bug 165030
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
<norsetto> nxvl_work:  well, cereal....
<nxvl_work> oh
<nxvl_work> the cereal is bug 165269
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165269 in cereal "FTBFS" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165269
<norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, and where do you see that that is fixed in debian?
<geser> DktrKranz: I remember too, but I don't know how it was done and who done it
<nxvl_work> norsetto: on BTS (on also on my mail) the link is on LP
<nxvl_work> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=453040
<ubotu> Debian bug 453040 in cereal "bashism makes cereal FTBFS" [Normal,Fixed]
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, but its not yet in the archive
<DktrKranz> geser, what about writing a mail to ubuntu-devel to ask?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: BTS says it's on ftp
<nxvl_work> s/ftp/ftp archive/g
<geser> DktrKranz: please do if you have time
<DktrKranz> geser, sure.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: well, not yet: http://ftp.debian.org/pool/main/c/cereal/
 * jdong cringes and checks if his mpeg4ip PPA upload killed any buildd's today :D
<nxvl_work> norsetto: does this happen often? that a DD upload a package and it doesn't apear to be?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: I guess its in NEW, just give it time for the archive admins to process it
<nxvl_work> ah ok
<norsetto> geser: do you remember by chance the url for debian new?
<nxvl_work> norsetto: when it happens, it will ask for a merge on MoM/DaD and i need to sync it, doesn't i?
<geser> norsetto: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
<alex-weej> geser: debdiff?
<norsetto> geser: danke (nxvl_work: you can always count on geser, he is an url machine :-))
<alex-weej> what's wrong with a patch that you can just drop in debian/patches? :(
<geser> alex-weej: a debdiff is a patch which does all the necessary changes to the packaging, like updating the changelog, dropping the patch to debian/patches, etc.
<alex-weej> tool to do that?
<norsetto> alex-weej: geser: I asked upstream to pop by and check it out
<alex-weej> norsetto: upstream is like one guy on sourceforge, no?
<geser> alex-weej: creating an updated source package (with your patch added) and then run debdiff on the old.dsc and new.dsc
<norsetto> alex-weej: if you want to fix this for gutsy its not a simple procedure anyhow
<norsetto> alex-weej: he is one guy somewhere, don't remember him being on sourceforge
<norsetto> alex-weej: point being, if he is happy about it, we can immediately correct it for hardy and pass it on to debian, for gutsy its gonna take longer though (or it may not happen at all)
<alex-weej> norsetto: i'm just frustrated that i did the work already and it's taken like half a year for it to get anywhere
<norsetto> alex-weej: here you will find all the mumble-jumble: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Universe
<norsetto> alex-weej: yes, thats the problem when the level to noise ratio is one to a hundred (or worse)
<alex-weej> i see someone tagged it "patch"
<alex-weej> maybe that helps for getting stuff fixed?
<Fujitsu> norsetto: Signal to noise, you mean?
<Fujitsu> Or noise to signal, in this case.
<norsetto> caesar docet
<alex-weej> 1:100 signal:noise
<norsetto> SNR: -10 db
<norsetto> alex-weej: yes, it helps, I tagged it
<norsetto> alex-weej: it helps also to submit the ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue
<norsetto> alex-weej: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue for the gory details
<alex-weej> 1/100 = -40dB :)
<norsetto> alex-weej: -20 db for power signals ;-)
<alex-weej> all i know is 20 Ã log_10(R) :P
<norsetto> alex-weej: yeah, thats for linear signals ...
<DktrKranz> jdong, mind looking at bug 164749 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164749 in pingus "Pingus package broken on Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164749
<Kmos> i've requested pingus 0.7.2 to be backported to gutsy
<DktrKranz> Kmos, ah. nice :)
 * jdong looks
<Kmos> that error is strange, because boost-signals-dev doesn't have a version check
<Kmos> i've added that depends at debian since 0.7.1
<jdong> Kmos / DktrKranz: Ok yeah it looks like a stupid oversight on my part, is there a backport bug open for pingus/gutsy already?
<Kmos> jdong: yes, i open it today.. needs you to approve it
<jdong> got a number?
<Kmos> 2 secs
<Kmos> bug 172605
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172605 in gutsy-backports "Please backport pingus 0.7.2 from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172605
<Ubulette> !info gnome-desktop-2.0 hardy
<ubotu> Package gnome-desktop-2.0 does not exist in hardy
<Ubulette> hm
<jdong> Kmos: done.
<Kmos> jdong: thanks
<Kmos> jdong: have time for more two? =)
<jdong> are they urgent?
<Kmos> only one
<Kmos> bug 172393
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172393 in gutsy-backports "Please backport disksearch from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172393
<Kmos> it has an old old old version at gutsy
<Kmos> =)
<Kmos> and it has a lot of bugs
<jdong> ok, looks reasonable
<Kmos> !info disksearch gutsy
<ubotu> disksearch: Removable medias search tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.1.3-0ubuntu3 (gutsy), package size 40 kB, installed size 336 kB
<effie_jayx> ok
<jdong> Kmos: done. Can I go back to reading about eigenvectors yet? :)
<Kmos> jdong: sure :) thx
<effie_jayx> I got the file done for the manpage
<norsetto> oh eigenvectors ...
<Kmos> effie_jayx: learned about dh_installman
<Kmos> ?
<effie_jayx> I got to man about it
<jdong> norsetto: believe me I'd take manpages over this anyday ;-)
<norsetto> jong: should I take you at face value :-)?
<norsetto> oh $deity will I ever spell something correctly ...
<Kmos> norsetto: do you want debian ITP bug for gelemental package ?
<norsetto> kmos: what ITP number?
<Kmos> need to find it
<effie_jayx> jdong,  believe me ... that man page is still needs a definition...
<effie_jayx> heh
<effie_jayx> try googling or RTFM for runghc
<Kmos> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/444861
<Kmos> it would be nice to have gelemental at debian, so gperiodic can be removed
<norsetto> kmos: thanks, can you tell them to take the one we have in hardy, or should we do something else?
<Kmos> !info gperiodic
<ubotu> gperiodic: periodic table application. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.9-1 (gutsy), package size 109 kB, installed size 420 kB
<jdong> WHOA MPEG4IP BUILT!!!111
<jdong> and it didn't DoS the i386 buildd!
<Fujitsu> jdong: Impossible.
<Kmos> norsetto: you need to upload it to mentors and ask for sponsoring
<norsetto> kmos: there are also the python bindings (pyelemental) if they want
<Kmos> :))
<norsetto> kmos: there are two new versions in the queue btw, with very minor fixes
<nxvl_work> norsetto: so be better wait for the DD instead of uploading the bootcd fix?
<Kmos> norsetto: in debian new ?
<norsetto> kmos: no, in norsetto new
<Kmos> :-P
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, it really depends if wait is a week or 6 months though
<nxvl_work> norsetto: isn't better to upload it anyway?
<nxvl_work> btw, did DaD send an email to the last person who touch the package?
<norsetto> nxvl_work: why? We are talking about hardy here
<nxvl_work> yes, you are right
<norsetto> nxvl_work: no, you have to check it manually
<nxvl_work> norsetto: it should
<norsetto> nxvl_work: I'm not so sure people would want it to tell you the truth
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  tomorrow I shall nail the bug...
<norsetto> effie_jayx: yeah, shred it to bits!
 * jdong dputs stage 2 of world domination to motumedia-ppa
 * RainCT is trying to remember if there wasn't a 'junk' project in launchpad where anyone could create bzr branches?
<lifeless> +junk
<imbrandon> RainCT: you can create bzr branches on your own name +junk iirc
<RainCT> lifeless, imbrandon: ah, cool. thanks :)
<RAOF> Oh, wow.  It looks like DavidR will be hacking xrandr1.2 into Xgl.  Maybe he can make a *release* while he's at it >:(.
<RainCT> good night
<effie_jayx> !etiquette > effie_jayx
<ScottK> RAOF: You like mono, right?
<RAOF> ScottK: Yeah?
<ScottK> RAOF: keescook was just mentioning wanting some help with debdiffs for mono security fixes.  Maybe you would volunteer
<RAOF> In #ubuntu-devel, I presume?
<ScottK> No, actually it came up in #debian-devel
<ScottK> DSA-1397 is the issue.
<somerville32> What do you guys think of Xubuntu being demoted to Universe?
<keescook> ScottK: well, help with testing on all releases too.  :)
<ScottK> somerville32: I think end users neither know nor care about Main/Universe and cjwatson's point about it's easier to work on if it's in Universe is valid.
<somerville32> But why not demote Kubuntu then?
<ScottK> keescook: I think my hard drives would melt if I mixed KDE and Mono.  I was just doing a little recruiting for you.
<RAOF> Because there are enough core-devs that care about it?
<somerville32> There are enough core-devs for Xubuntu
<keescook> ScottK: thanks.  :)
<somerville32> I doubt more MOTUs would upload Xubuntu packages if it was in Universe anyhow
<ScottK> somerville32: Get your act together and soonish you could be one of them.
<ScottK> Core-dev would take a bit longer.
<somerville32> Whats wrong with my act? : (
<somerville32> Am I doing something wrong? :(
<ajmitch> keescook: talked to slomo about it?
<ScottK> somerville32: No.  Just hadn't seen you around for a while and then there's been no application.
<keescook> ajmitch: nope, it just hasn't really gotten up on the todo list yet
<ajmitch> ah, meebey is complaining, surprise
<somerville32> ScottK, Well, I was admitted to the hospital
<keescook> :)
<norsetto> scottk: whats the contact for the debian python gang?
<somerville32> ScottK, But do you think I'm ready to apply?
<imbrandon> ScottK: qyoto c# qt bindings :)
<ScottK> somerville32: I haven't looked at your stuff, so I don't have a strong opinion.  Your general knowledge is certainly good (I recall you giving me revu drubbings when I first showed up)
<ScottK> norsetto: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
<somerville32> :] Thanks.
 * somerville32 has to run. ttyl
<ScottK> norsetto: That or ping POX_.
<norsetto> scottk: ok, thanks, think they could be interested about python bindings or its not their kind of stuff?
<ScottK> Yes.  Likely interested.
<hendrixski> hey, quick question...  I want to package up a cool prototype that I saw on a mailing list, but it's built with cmake.... could anybody recommend a package I could look at that uses cmake (just so that I don't come across any nasty surprises)
<geser> hendrixski: check the packages build-depending on cmake
<hendrixski> geser, there's a way to do that?
 * hendrixski checks the apt-cache man pages
<geser> hendrixski: use that script http://damianv.com.ar/downloads/rbuildepend
<jdong> argh, libmp4v2 from mpeg4ip definitely is not API & ABI compatible with our libfaad2 based ancient version
<jdong> yay, I have my post-exam work cut out for me already :)
<hendrixski> hhmm, script didn't seem to do much
<geser> hendrixski: do you have a deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list?
<hendrixski> yup, for feisty main restricted universe multiverse
<geser> hendrixski: rbuildepend cmake lists here a lot of packages (with hardy deb-src)
<hendrixski> oh... heh, missing grep-dctrl
<geser> hendrixski: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46170/
<hendrixski> got it
<hendrixski> yeah, there are a few packages, sweet
<hendrixski> that's a handy little script.
<hendrixski> I'll have to back that one up in case I need it again
<hendrixski> thanks geser I would have wasted another couple of hours looking for this without you :-)
<s1024kb> norsetto: good morning my teacher, i can still access to the internet this morning. a few days later i can not. so i come to say hello to you, and to all my friends here.
<norsetto> s1024kb: hello!
<jdong> superm1: oh cool mplayer doesn't use system libmp4v2 anymore?
<norsetto> s1024kb: so, you are really leaving?
<txwikinger> hello.. is there anywhere a document/webpage that exactly explains the issue with copyright file in the original package?
<RAOF> txwikinger: What issue is it that you want to fix?
<s1024kb> norsetto: there are a lot of meaning of "leaving", to my company, yes, but not now, my plan is at the begining of next year, to Ubuntu, no, i believe that i will be absence for a short period of time, but will come back soon.
<txwikinger> well, I have two package which the authors put the copyright information into the readme file
<norsetto> s1024kb: very good!
<txwikinger> and I would like to know about this in general
<norsetto> s1024kb: I hope this is a good change for you
<RAOF> Ah, rather than in a LICENCE or COPYING file as is more traditional.
<txwikinger> what happens if the original author can't be found anymore, but it is clearly licenced gpl or so in another way
<s1024kb> norsetto: actually i keep studying Linux development these days even without a computer or ADSL at home. I want to take part in the development of the next release of Ubuntu.
<RAOF> txwikinger: So, I'm not sure that there *is* a general answer to the question "copyright?".
<norsetto> s1024kb: you did already, yappy is your package now :-)
<RAOF> txwikinger: On the other hand, if it's clearly GPLd, then that's ok.
<s1024kb> norsetto: my friend Maia (maiatoday) will continue her work in Ubuntu as she had promised me, i can share her experience. I will come back to my school in the evening to receive her e-mail about telling me her work.
<txwikinger> well it is a perl module and it is stated in readme file that it is published under the same terms as perl
<RAOF> txwikinger: The trick is in the "clearly" of course :)
<txwikinger> I consider that as "clearly" (and I have a law degree in another 4 weeks :))
<RAOF> I think that generally we like to have license headers in each copyrightable file, but I'm in no way an expert on licensing issues.
<s1024kb> norsetto: you are always my teacher, i will meet you soon in the future. Please continue to be my Mentor! :) for this reason, and for my future work in Ubuntu, i will keep my spirit high and fight for my future.
<txwikinger> well thanks, RAOF I will ask someone tomorrow if I get to it
<norsetto> s1024kb: sure, you are still on my list don worry, as soon as things are clear and you have again time, come back
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you my teacher. or i should say "have chance again"? i will buy my own computer soon, take my exams, continue my study... we will meet again soon. :)
<s1024kb> norsetto: it's a long way to go but i will be brave. :)
<s1024kb> norsetto: bye my teacher, take care.
<norsetto> s1024kb: bye! take care of yourself and your family. Will see you soon I hope
<s1024kb> norsetto: thank you, i will. will e-mail you when i have chance.
<norsetto> s1024kb: yes, let me know
<s1024kb> norsetto: :) thanks.
<Fujitsu> siretart: Why should u-u-s not be subscribed to bugs?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-29
<ScottK> txwikinger: You still around?
<ScottK> txwikinger: I've run into this exact issue before.
<txwikinger> yes ScottK
<ScottK> Does the package include the full text of any of the licenses that apply (there are 3)?
<txwikinger> No.. only a reference to perl
<ScottK> You will have to repack the tarball to include a copy of the license.
<ScottK> I'll get you some references.
<ScottK> Also, "Same terms as Perl" covers at least 3 licenses:
<ScottK> Perl Artistic License
<ScottK> GPL v2
<ScottK> GPL v1
<txwikinger> I think it is GPL and Perl Artistic
<ScottK> If it's "Same as Perl" then it's both GPL v1 and v2.
<txwikinger> This package is free software and is provided "as is" without express
<txwikinger> or implied warranty.  You can redistribute it and/or modify it under
<txwikinger> the same terms as Perl itself.
<ScottK> All three will need to be covered in debian/copyright.
<ScottK> Yes.
<txwikinger> that is in the readme file
<ScottK> At least one needs to be in the tarball, so you have to repack.
<txwikinger> I have created the debian/copyright
<ScottK> With all three licenses discussed?
<txwikinger> and there given the reference to the folders in which those licenses are in ubuntu/debian distro
<txwikinger> I think just gpl and perl artistic
<txwikinger> not explicitly gpl v1 and v2
<ScottK> Yes.  Perl is explicitly v1 and v2.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/libnet-dns-resolver-programmable-perl/0.002.2-0ubuntu1 is a package I did.
<txwikinger> and I copied the COPYING file from perl to the package top directory
<ScottK> Some of the rules on how you document repacking have changed a bit, so you'll want to read up on that.
<txwikinger> ok.. I haven't repackaged the orig tarball I think
<ScottK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz talks about how you repack the tarball
<ScottK> The package I showed you above can mostly be used as a reference.
<ScottK> for what has to go in.
<txwikinger> right
<slangasek> just because upstream explicitly makes something available under GPLv1 (in addition to GPLv2) doesn't mean redistributors have to extend the same license to users
<txwikinger> Thanks ScottK
<ScottK> slangasek: True, but unless there's a reason not to, I think packagers should preserve upstream's preferences in licensing.
<lifeless> ScottK: we can't limit upstream's preference, but we can patch it with something not compatible with upstreams entire preferences
<ScottK> txwikinger: More info here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic?highlight=%28get-orig-source%29#head-4bb01b3c07548aaf98e85ac7eb7983e632f8eb38 - particularly on making a get-orig-source rule.
<ScottK> lifeless: I agree that we can.  I also think that we shouldn't without a good reason.
<slangasek> I think not having to hunt down the text of the ancient GPLv1 is a good enough reason, myself :)
 * ScottK was just typing that I thought it not.  Google is easy enough, but OK.
<slangasek> ScottK: ok, more concretely, the GPLv1 is old enough that I don't know it has ever even been reviewed by a body such as debian-legal to check whether it imposes unreasonable obligations on distributors such as Debian and Ubuntu
<ScottK> That's definitely more concrete, although Ubuntu doesn't have such a body, so it'd be a better Debian point than an Ubuntu one.
<slangasek> well, I'm saying that no one has done such a review, and I wouldn't want to be the one packaging something like that without reading the license carefully
 * ScottK has wondered why Perl is still distributed under GPL v1.
<ScottK> That certainly makes sense.
<txwikinger> ScottK: maybe they can't get all authors to agree to the change to GPL v2 or is all copyright transfered?
<ScottK> It's GPL v1 and 2, so they can drop 1 if they feel like it.
<StevenK> ScottK: Perl is special, being GPLv2 or Artistic
<ScottK> StevenK: Except it's really GPLv1, GPLv2, or Artistic, so it's even more special than that.
<ScottK> pitti or Mithrandir rejected my first new package because of this.
<imbrandon> wtfpl ftw:)
<minghua> ScottK: Is it "GPL v1 or v2", or "GPL v1 or later"?  In other words, is it GPL v3 compatible?
 * ScottK would need to look.  Last time I was required to care, there wasn't a v3 yet.
<txwikinger> minghua:
<txwikinger> the GNU General Public License as published by the Free
<txwikinger> 	Software Foundation; either version 1, or (at your option) any
<txwikinger> 	later version, or
<lifeless> txwikinger: thats the licence, not the grant.
<lifeless> txwikinger: you have to have a grant statement to decide what licence a package is under
<txwikinger> lifeless: I have no idea what this means
<ScottK> txwikinger: It means you were quoting from the GPL, not the bit where Perl says how it's licensed
<norsetto> g'night all
<minghua> ScottK: The /usr/share/doc/perl-base/copyright says GPL v1 or later.
 * minghua can't find anything definitive on perl.org though.
<ScottK> Then it's be v3 too I guess.
<txwikinger> ScottK: I was quoting from perl's readme file which declares under which terms you are allowed to redistribute
<ScottK> That's consistent with my recollection from January
<ScottK> txwikinger: The part you were quoting from is part of the GPL though.
<txwikinger> ScottK: True it is inside the GPL also
<superm1> jdong, when did it ever?  i didn't recall making such a change, and looking through bzr history on debian/control, i don't see any dependencies directly on it
<superm1> actually hmm.  can't remove it without removing mplayer
<superm1> something about mplayer wants to keep it
<superm1> some other dependency
<jdong> superm1: I could've sworn...
<Fujitsu> Which dependency?
<superm1> i'm not sure.
<Fujitsu> Which package are you trying to remove?
<jdong> superm1: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/graphics/mplayer
<superm1> libmp4v2-0
<jdong> superm1: on [powerpc] there's a binary dep on mp4v2
<superm1> oh interesting.
<jdong> Fujitsu: not trying to remove, chasing after an API migration
<jdong> superm1: could be a shlibdeps phenomenon?
<superm1> well if its only on ppc, then why is it sticking around for i386?
<jdong> where phenomenon is polite speak for bug?
<superm1> haha
<superm1> its a dependency of libfaac0
<superm1> which is a dependency of mplayer
<jdong> superm1: oh so it gets pulled in anyway
<superm1> yeah
<jdong> superm1: lovely, well faac is definitely going to be hit by the mpeg4ip transmition
<superm1> what transition?
<jdong> superm1: mp4v2 will be provided by mpeg4ip instead of faad
<crimsun> 172863.
<jdong> yeah what crimsun said :)
<crimsun> 683.
<superm1> bug 172863
<crimsun> other one.
<crimsun> bug 172683
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172683 in gtkpod-aac "libmp4v2 API migration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172683
<superm1> bug 683
<superm1> o
<jdong> superm1: with regards to mplayer, I think if we deal with faac mplayer should remain unaffected
<jdong> (famous last words)
<superm1> well except on powerpc i guess?
<jdong> superm1: I don't understand what the difference with ppc is?
<superm1> i didn't think there was a [powerpc] build depend even though
<superm1> that doesn't seem right
<jdong> superm1: I didn't see it in my Sources.gz grep
<superm1> so p.u.c is on crack?
<somerville32> superm1, I was looking for you in x-devel
<jdong> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<jdong> Original-Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Media Team <motumedia@tauware.de>
<jdong> ^^ is that _really_ necessary? :)
<jdong> (feisty)
<ScottK> jdong: Per the spec, yes.
<ScottK> Since tauware.de is not in ubuntu.com
<jdong> well technicality wise, I guess
<Fujitsu> debuild gets cranky, so it's best do mangle it.
<Fujitsu> s/do/to
<ScottK> May as well.
 * jdong wonders why motumedia doesn't get a @lists.ubuntu.com?
<Fujitsu> jdong: That takes a loooong time.
<jdong> ah, lovely
<crimsun> (not to mention prior to USD-Boston, there was some discussion of dissolving the team)
<crimsun> UDS*
<Fujitsu> crimsun: That's true.
<jdong> ah
<Fujitsu> crimsun!
<crimsun> Fujitsu!
 * jdong uploads a rebuild of faac to motumedia-ppa and hopes nothing explodes... again.
 * Fujitsu explodes.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Save the exploding for the CC meeting tomorrow.
<jdong> what's going down there?
<ScottK> A certain somebody who tends to be somewhat unpopular in these parts has listed himself as a membership candidate.
<Fujitsu> Nyes...
 * Fujitsu isn't amused.
 * jdong looks at the list and guesses...
 * Fujitsu wonders if he can convince a sysadmin to make him disappear from that list.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: It'll be more fun to have a public fight about it.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I guess.
<ScottK> Actually, I think more necessary.
<Fujitsu> Ew, 3am tomorrow...
<Fujitsu> I'll have to watch, though.
<Fujitsu> I haven't been to a CC meeting in aages.
<crimsun> sounds like I've missed a thoroughly rousing devel cycle ;)
<Fujitsu> crimsun: That you have.
 * ajmitch wonders who this certain someone is?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm sure you can guess...
 * minghua didn't know that he is not a member yet.
<ScottK> ajmitch shouldn't have much trouble figuring it out.
<ajmitch> nope, i can't
 * jdong feels out of the loop
<ajmitch> at least I don't see any recent changes to the CC agenda
<somerville32> When is the next CC?
<ScottK> He's been on the list for a whlie.  It's just been quite some time since the last meeting.
<ajmitch> it must have been
<jdong> I guess that means look towards the top
<ajmitch> about 6 weeks or so since the last one?
<ScottK> somerville32: ~20 hours
<ajmitch> 5AM local time
<somerville32> Are you guys talking about kmos?
<ScottK> Or less.
<superm1> who is representing him?
 * ajmitch shrugs
<Fujitsu> somerville32: What gives you that idea?
<ScottK> somerville32: None of us said that.
<ajmitch> just say it :P
 * Fujitsu invokes the CoC.
<jdong> ok while we are paying keep-jdong-in-suspense, anyone want to comment on pulling faac from debian-multimedia again?
<jdong> it looks like trying a merge from d-m will be easier than patching our old-ish version
<ScottK> jdong: I'd so go for it.  Your track record on such things is reasonably good.
<minghua> Wow, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntumembers/+members really has a long applicant list.
 * somerville32 thought kmos would look different.
<jdong> ScottK: I will start experimenting and try to poke/ambush slomo the next time he comes on just in case this is a bad idea (tm)
<ajmitch> I should apply to be a member
<ajmitch> I think i'm only in the team indirectly
<crimsun> teehee, expired on 2007-08-16
<ajmitch> ah no, I am still a direct member
<ajmitch> must have only been MOTU I expired from
 * Fujitsu wonders if GetDeb people can be automatically excluded.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee!
<jdong> there she is
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<minghua> Oh, my membership will expire soon, it seems.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: no, they should be given a chance, at least
<minghua> ajmitch: Can automatix people be auto-excluded then? :-P
<StevenK> minghua: Do you have some time to explain how GTK input methods work?
<ajmitch> minghua: noone can, really :)
<jdong> hehe I'm ex-automatix :)
<Hobbsee> heya!
<ajmitch> I know :)
<minghua> StevenK: Sure.  Glad to see you are interested in it.
<StevenK> minghua: I'm trying to get Hildon Input Method working, and I'm getting nowhere slowly.
<minghua> StevenK: I assume you understand the general idea of input methods?
<ajmitch> and it's taken many long years of rehabilitation
<jdong> ajmitch: lol ;-)
<StevenK> minghua: I understand it in the mobile case - click on a text widget and get the input method to pop up a keyboard so you can type
<minghua> StevenK: Oh.  Then you probably don't.
<minghua> StevenK: The point of an IM is to convert keystroke sequences to character/string.
<minghua> StevenK: For some languages keymaps can do this, for the East Asian languages keymaps are not powerful enough.
 * StevenK nods
 * jdong looks at slomo's comment on bug 80825
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 80825 in faac "Version bump to 1.25 request" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80825
<minghua> StevenK: So first there was X input method (XIM), which is some part (I don't know which) in X that take the keyboard input from X server, send it to some external conversion program, get the character/string back, and send that to X client.
<minghua> StevenK: XIM has many limitations, and is generally hard to code for X client programmers, and error-prone.
<jdong> hmm better get his opinion on this -- he felt strongly enough 1.5yrs ago to package from scratch and diverge from marillat
<StevenK> minghua: Which lead to SCIM, I'm guessing
<minghua> StevenK: So GTK+ redesigned/reimplemented the input method stack, and have something (again, I don't know what) in the GTK+ system which handles the conversion.
<minghua> StevenK: Not yet. :-)
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Did you see the message I left for LongPointyStick about the CC meeting tomorrow.
<LordKow> is breezy (5.10) long past being supported?
<minghua> StevenK: This is commonly called GTK IM, as a well known environment variable to control this part of GTK+ is GTK_IM_MODULE.
<StevenK> Breezy is long dead, yes
<effie_jayx> :(
<minghua> StevenK: So obviously most existent conversion programs works for XIM, and GTK+ don't want to throw them away.
<StevenK> minghua: I knew that bit from my web searching yesterday
<LordKow> so conflicts/replaces on a package that has been removed from the ubuntu repositories since breezy no longer needs to be included as a conflict/replace in hardy?
 * effie_jayx remember when breezy was hype 
<effie_jayx> s/remember/remembers
<jdong> breezy was the roughest Ubuntu release I've used
<crimsun> LordKow: correct.
<LordKow> k one step closer to being able to sync
<minghua> StevenK: Therefore GTK+ can defer to XIM to handle the conversion, which is what GTK_IM_MODULE=xim mean.
<StevenK> LordKow: If they needed for an upgrade *to* Dapper, they can go; if they're needed for an upgrade *from* Dapper, they stay.
<StevenK> minghua: Yup.
<LordKow> StevenK, considering the conflict/replace in question is not in dapper they should be safe to remove
<minghua> StevenK: My understanding is that different modules of the GTK IMs are quite independent.  You can see the files in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules/, and the module (essentially the conversion method) in the right click menu's "Input Methods".
<Hobbsee> ScottK: not yet, but i will
<StevenK> minghua: Right.
<minghua> StevenK: Again, this is controlled by the GTK_IM_MODULE variable.
<minghua> StevenK: This is basically about IM.  I take it that you are interested in SCIM as well?
<StevenK> minghua: Not particularly, I'm interested in how to debug IM because I can't get Hildon Input Method working
<minghua> StevenK: What input method is Hildon using?  I'm not familiar with it at all.
<slangasek> presumably the "hildon" one :)
<minghua> Is it a special GTK IM module?
<StevenK> It's own, http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/HildonInputMethod
<StevenK> Actually, the input method is called "hildon-input-method"
<minghua> StevenK: Does hildon-IM run on vanilla GTK now?
<StevenK> I've not been able to determine that.
<StevenK> Although I suspect the answer is "No" since I can't get it working
<minghua> It looks like an GTK IM module to me.  Is there anything in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules/ that looks like hildon?
<minghua> The problem is, Debian/Ubuntu's GTK IM stack is not vanilla either...
<StevenK> Hold on, just booting the device
<slangasek> minghua: in what sense, and why?
<minghua> StevenK: If you've been following http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/HildonInputMethod/Building, I can seen something would not work...
<minghua> slangasek: Let me dig up the reference for you.
<StevenK> minghua: Oh?
<minghua> slangasek, StevenK: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2006/10/msg00045.html
<minghua> slangasek, StevenK: I can't find a better reference, so I'll elaborate a bit more:
<minghua> GTK uses /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules to register all the available IMs.
<minghua> So individual IMs need to update that file after they are installed/uninstalled.
<minghua> You can see it would cause some problem as it's a conffile.
<StevenK> Yeah
<StevenK> Just throwing hildon-input-method into /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules has made it hit the list of input methods.
<minghua> So in Debian after 2.10 it is changed to use individual files in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodule-files.d/ instead.
<minghua> And /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules become useless.
<StevenK> dh_gtkmodules ah
<minghua> StevenK: That's why I say following the Hildon upstream instructions would not work.
<StevenK> minghua: It certainly helped
<minghua> This change is not in GTK+ upstream AFAIK.
<minghua> slangasek, StevenK: Debian bug 419314 is an example how input method packages should adapt to this change.
<ubotu> Debian bug 419314 in scim-gtk2-immodule "Switch to dh_gtkmodules for the gtk 2.10 transition" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/419314
<minghua> LoÃ¯c Minier should know better than I do, as that change is his.
<minghua> And I think he is also an MOTU now?
<StevenK> I can talk to LoÃ¯c about it
<StevenK> Now, how do I set a gconf key
<minghua> gconftool if you are hardcore, gconf-editor is a saner alternative.
<StevenK> From a command line, hopefully
<crimsun> StevenK's hardcore!
<minghua> StevenK: gconftool-2, actually it seems, as gconftool is a symlink to it.  It's command-line.
<StevenK> Right, got it.
<LordKow> are there any policies with regard to putting Homepage: <whatever> in a package description?
<jdong> LordKow: I was last told to start using the Homepage: tag (paraphrasing) though Homepage: is a valid way on its way to being deprecated
<StevenK> What? Homepage as a field has only just started existing
<RAOF> I think he meant "using Homepage: foo in the package description", not the shiny new dpkg field.
<LordKow> okay, this particular package has the Homepage set properly but (in regards to homepage) we deviated from debian by adding Homepage: <link> to the package descriptions to
<LordKow> i take it I can safely remove the homepage link from the description?
<RAOF> Well, there's a nice easy divergence to drop :)
<minghua> If those two URLs are the same. :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: In what context do you need to set a gconf key?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Is it just for your own use, or within a package?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Within a package
 * StevenK has figured it out, too
<TheMuso> StevenK: Are you aware of the gconf-defaults mechanism available?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Nope. Can you spit out more information?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Sure. What you can do is create a file called debian/packagename.gconf-defaults, and you can list the keys you want to set in it like this:
<TheMuso> /path/to/gconf/key value
<TheMuso> /path/to/other/key false
<TheMuso> etc
<TheMuso> Then, in debian/rules, you run dh_gonfdefaults with a priority number in the binary stage of the build, whic copies the file to /usr/share/gconf/defaults, and does postinst/prerm magic to run update-gconf-defaults.
<LordKow> are there any limitations to merges when the merge involves new packages added by debian?
<TheMuso> Hope that makes sense
<TheMuso> sorry, dh_gconf
<StevenK> TheMuso: Sure it does, I'll add dh_gconf as something to look at. :-)
<RAOF> LordKow: You mean the same source package now builds new binary packages?
<LordKow> yes
<LordKow> it adds a new package (but doesnt rename or remove any others)
<RAOF> I can't think of anything special at the moment.
<minghua> Probably checking that there is not package name collision.
<LordKow> k. it was added by debian but I will still mention it in the changes for future reference
<LordKow> minghua, yep gcrystal does not exist in any of our repos right now
<minghua> LordKow: Sounds good.
<jdong> hmm convention question:
<jdong> If I work on a package by testing in a PPA and go through ~ppa1 -> ~ppa3, and then am ready to upload to Ubuntu, should I (A) Consolidate the ~ppa* changelog entries into one final entry, or (2) Preserve that changelog history and use -v to make them all show up in .changes?
<jdong> err I just used (A) and (2)
 * Fujitsu would go with A.
<jdong> I'm leaning towards A, too
<jdong> expecially since (2) exposes more embarassing details of my incompetence than I'd like to discluse ;-)
 * Fujitsu is glad that the .changes are stored for eternity for all to see.
<Fujitsu> You can't hide them forever!
<jdong> lol
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> possible attack vulnerability with reused binaries there
<Fujitsu> lifeless: The .changes?
<Fujitsu> Where are the binaries reused?
<lifeless> I've mailed the soyuz folk.
<lifeless> If I'm wrong I'll explain it to you tomorrow when they correct me.
<lifeless> If I'm right, I'd rather not say more just yet.
<somerville32> OooOoo...
<jdong> dun dun dunnnnnnn
 * Fujitsu notes there is another much, much worse vulnerability.
<somerville32> Really? Do share.
<Hobbsee> you don't want to know.
<Fujitsu> You really don't want to know.
 * ajmitch really does
<Fujitsu> It is a most nasty one.
 * somerville32 always wants to know.
<Amaranth> I want to know
<Amaranth> So I can exploit it and find the hidden GNOME 3.0 packages
<Amaranth> I know seb128 has been keeping them from me
<jdong> nice, marillat's faac builds and as does an unleashed gtkpod-aac.... now the question is, did I just start another revdep chain with faac?
<jdong> (almost certainly a yes... :-/)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<imbrandon> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi imbrandon
<crimsun> jdong: never fear the rdep chain.  Fear the morning after.
<jdong> :)
<crimsun> (yes, I know you're procrastinating.)
<bddebian> heh, heya crimsun
<jdong> crimsun: shhhhhh ;-)
<crimsun> heya bddebian
<jdong> when's our first tribe?
<jdong> or flock
<jdong> or gaggle
<jdong> what do herons come in?
<StevenK> jdong: "Alpha"
<minghua> I thought we abandoned that naming system for hardy.
<jdong> other than crates of refrigerated styrofoam trays
<jdong> minghua: ah I didn't get that memo then
<jdong> ok, "Alpha" it is.
<RAOF> And the answer is now, approximately.
<jdong> when is the freezing fun scheduled?
<jdong> ah
<jdong> ok
<somerville32> jdong, no freeze
<imbrandon> no freeze
<jdong> somerville32: I know but I'd rather not put anything in that MIGHT break parts of the multimedia stack
<RAOF> jdong: A self-imposed freeze.
<jdong> in ways that would affect "users" (read: insane testers :D)
<imbrandon> jdong: your a MOTU now you really should read more email :)
 * RAOF hunts the ubuntu-devel message about this...
<somerville32> burn
<jdong> imbrandon: it's been a hellish week after getting back from thanksgiving...
 * somerville32 hugs jdong 
<StevenK> RAOF: Freeze!
<StevenK> RAOF: Okay, go on.
<imbrandon> heheh i totaly understand, i was just messing with ya
<StevenK> :-P
<jdong> imbrandon: I will catch up on the 300-whatnot messages after friday :)
 * somerville32 has 5k
<jdong> somerville32: I actually read mine normally ;-)
<somerville32> jdong, me too :P I just got so much
<somerville32> And no spam :(
 * somerville32 wishes he could get spam he could just easily delete.
<RAOF> jdong: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-November/000351.html
 * jdong set up squirrelmail just to get mail on his iPod Touch
<StevenK> Note to self: Patches work better if you list them in 00list
<crimsun> somerville32: I could sub you to a few LP teams as the bug contact...
 * StevenK does the whole dance again
<somerville32> crimsun, sub?
<imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
<crimsun> somerville32: add/subscribe
<jdong> RAOF: thanks :)
<somerville32> crimsun, I already get enough bug mail :P
<jdong> StevenK: ah, yes, that was infinite loop #2 of mpeg4ip
<superm1> jdong, why not use apple mail on it?
<superm1> jdong, apple mail works really well actually on mine
<superm1> jdong, the only problem is that google's imap doesn't refresh all my labels
<imbrandon> is there a python function to escape/convert a html strings from like < to &lt; and &quote; etc ?
<slangasek> not as part of the standard library, ttbomk
<imbrandon> hrm
<nxvl> imbrandon: i don't know any, but you can write one
<slangasek> nxvl: and forget one of the chars that need escaping and cause XSS vulns ;)
<imbrandon> i'm barely past page one on dive into python :)  i dont think writing my own is worth it
<ScottK> imbrandon: I think not as it's come up as a problem with REVU comments.
<imbrandon> at this point
<StevenK> Um, sure there is.
<slangasek> StevenK: called?
<StevenK> It's in urllib, I think
<imbrandon> i'm already importing urllib so i'll see
 * imbrandon looks
<StevenK> http://docs.python.org/lib/node563.html#l2h-3814
<StevenK> cgi.escape()
<nxvl> how is a sync done?
<nxvl> only download the debian package and upload it?
<StevenK> nxvl: A sync is done by the archive admins
<nxvl> StevenK: so if one packages is marked as merge and it need a sync y only ask for it on #ubuntu-devel?
<jdong> superm1: haven't bothered to jailbreak/EULA-rape mine yet
<jdong> superm1: gonna use it the way apple intended (tm or else) for a few weeks before hacking it
<imbrandon> nxvl: no you file a sync request bug
<imbrandon> following the guidelines
<LordKow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<nxvl> thnx
<LordKow> alright given the amount of deviation required for this merge in debian/control i give this src package ~90% chance of FTBFS-ing
<ScottK> LordKow: Did you build it yet?
<LordKow> nope, if i did then i would give it a 0% chance of FTBFS'ing this time ;)
<LordKow> okay well apt likes everything in the control file so far so good
<ScottK> apt?
<LordKow> pbuilder
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
<jdong> ok, nice, first pass through the revdep chain of mp4v2 all builds, now to go to the gym and come back and walk down the faac chain
<LordKow> pbuilder might run out of disk space just trying to compile this heavily dependent package heh. 3 gigs left on my HDD at the start, 232 new packages including some huge libs like gtk2
<LordKow> that # may include base packages im not exactly sure how pbuilder works
<LordKow> ah yep all the gnome libs too
 * Fujitsu fails to see how GNOME libs are base packages...
<LordKow> sorry, i was rambling. I meant to say 232 new packages may include the base packages. the gnome libs statement is one of the packages but not a base package.
<LordKow> configure: "libgoffice-0.4 < 0.5.0" well duh if that statement is ever false then someone messed up in packaging
<nxvl> i used requestsync script, where do i check if it was correctly send?
<nxvl> sent*
<RAOF> Launchpad
<jdong> LordKow: is that something like J2RE 6 SE Version 1.6.0_01b21?
<nxvl> RAOF: on the package bugs?
<RAOF> Yup.
<nxvl> mm
<nxvl> i will wait a little, it must take some time
<nxvl> brb
<LordKow> jdong, im working on gnome-chemistry-utils. that previous statement was in the configure but if this candidate is correct then that statement is now "libgoffice-0.5 >= 0.5.0" with no max version
<jdong> whoo looks like only ~5 revdeps to deal with for faac
<jdong> grr what am I doing, gym time...
<LordKow> the devs of gnome-chemistry-utils dont specify any version requirements on their website so i figure it should always build against the latest version
<LordKow> i guess its possible that libgoffice may be updated and break gnome-chemistry-utils but setting max version restrictions are nasty.
<jdong> LordKow: yeah don't worry about max restrictions
<Fujitsu> No, do worry about max restrictions.
<jdong> LordKow: just make sure you set minimum to the hardy version if the hardy version has not built binaries across all arches yet
 * somerville32 sneezes 
<RAOF> LordKow: That's the responsibility of the library maintainer.
<somerville32> I forgot to take my allergy meds :(
 * jdong pets somerville32 and tells him to stop whoring for attention ;-)
<LordKow> the proper way would be to notice that gnome-chemistry-utils will no longer build from source due to new libgoffice, therefore gnome-chemistry-utils should be fixed :)
<Fujitsu> g-c-u was a big problem for quite some time, as we had a newer libgoffice, which didn't work with it.
<Fujitsu> s/newer/development/
<jdong> LordKow: ha, how many people actually test the reverse deps ;-)
<jdong> this would all be so much easier by a drive-by API change mechanism ;-)
<LordKow> jdong, well the most testing i do is build the packages, install them... and run 'em
<jdong> *BANG* (run before anyone notices broken revdeps)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> wrong tab
<jdong> LordKow: hehe this multimedia stuff I'm working on seems to always uproot a mesh of revdep problems :)
<jdong> but it builds character :)
<LordKow> hehe, and frustration
<LordKow> ah yep FTBFS, time to see why
<jdong> yay!
<LordKow> oh bless descriptive gnome changelogs, this shall be an easy fix
<LordKow> and its an issue of the package not building against the latest goffice... i sense upstream bug reports
<LordKow> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/goffice/0.5/goffice-0.5.1.changes look at all of those headers they moved... eeeuuwwwwwwwww
<LordKow> change build-dep to >= 0.5.1 and go with it i guess
<LordKow> okay i think i'll cancel the g-c-u 0.8.x merge and file a request in debian to -> 0.9 because the g-c-u devs fixed FTBFS against goffice 0.5.1 and that is what we have in hardy
<Fujitsu> LordKow: Does Debian have that goffice yet?
<LordKow> yea in fact we should be merging with it, they use 0.5.3
<LordKow> so, i wonder how long before debian g-c-u maintainers realize 0.8 doesnt compile against goffice >= 0.5.1
<LordKow> ah, thats why they require 0.4
<LordKow> so for us i guess the question is: what do we do about the g-c-u merge? :p
<crimsun> hmm, well, 6.06 -> 8.04 using apt-get hitches on initramfs-tools.
<LordKow> we could always push libgoffice-0.4 into hardy but the package would possibily be obsolete before hardy is even released in april
<LordKow> and it would conflict with 0.5. too messy
<LordKow> but our current version wont compile against 0.5 :-/
<LordKow> so g-c-u is dead in the water right now
<crimsun> hmm, and on libx11-data.
<crimsun> ok, so bug 56008 is moot.  It's definitely installable due to xutils existing in 8.04.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 56008 in gsfonts-x11 "gsfonts-x11 depends on uninstallable transitional package xutils" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56008
<jcastro> hi guys, the US LoCo teams are running an educational session on friday at EST2000 to get LoCo people involved in becoming MOTUs, triaging bugs, etc. Are any US-based MOTUs willing to hang out in ubuntu-us and help point people in the right direction?
<crimsun> what's that, 3 PM?
<crimsun> (EST)  I'd still be @work.
<crimsun> err, I totally misparsed that.
<crimsun> yeah, I can do that, jcastro.
<jcastro> crimsun: so, to give you more details
<jcastro> christer wants to seriously leverage LoCo people to become MOTUs
<jcastro> so he's running his own LoCo-driven "open week"
<jcastro> and if reaching out to volunteers
<jcastro> the idea is to have MOTUs on stand by to deal with volunteers that might be interested
<crimsun> right.
<jcastro> crimsun: totally crap too dude, I only got to say hi, we never got a chance to sit down and talk about stuff
<crimsun> jcastro: 'sokay, you guys were jamming
<jcastro> I hope you got a chance to meet some of the other .edu people there
<Burgundavia> jcastro: jorgey!
<jcastro> Burgundavia: COREY!
<ScottK> People interested in Universe and security stuff might want to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda and then discuss with Burgundavia...
<LordKow> how did a package like g-c-u which is under heavy heavy development make it into ubuntu? :P
<Fujitsu> ScottK, Burgundavia: hah, I was thinking about requesting that last night.
<Fujitsu> But we need reasonable security support first, which \sh and I are working on organising.
<ScottK> Thought you'd like it.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: We do some now and it's reasonable (I think) to document what we are doing.
<ScottK> BTW if you want help on the security organizing thing, let me know.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Sorta, I guess.
<ScottK> My favorite was one security upload I did for a perl package in 4 releases.  It was in Main for two and Universe for two and so the USN only discussed the Main releases and was silent on the rest.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: That's understandable.
<Fujitsu> We need UUSAs at some point, particularly with the recent removal of a certain bug/feature.
<Fujitsu> I'd like them to be in place before Hardy, at least, and I will do whatever it takes to get them happening.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: It's understandable to me since I'm involved in the process, but it totally violates the principal of least suprise
<LordKow> bug 172717 im not sure anyone here right now wants to tackle this but just in case.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172717 in gnome-chemistry-utils "[hardy] G-C-U FTBFS and Possible Merge" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172717
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Kees commented in the -security announcement bug that he wanted them back, so I suspect we'll get them soon.
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: right, that would rock
<Fujitsu> Do we have a date for the meeting yet?
<Burgundavia> the TB one?
<keescook> Fujitsu: Supposedly it's scheduled for 1.1.12 LP roll-out
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: What would?
<Fujitsu> Yeah, TB.
<Burgundavia> look, I only deal with on train wreck of a meeting schedule, the CC one
<Fujitsu> keescook: Hi. That's good.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: Heh.
<Fujitsu> keescook: You don't have any horribly violent objections to us doing USAs for universe (UUSAs?) to some universe-security or similar mailing list, do you?
<keescook> UUSN, maybe to share more of the acronym?  no objection at all, I think it's a fine idea.
<keescook> I've long wanted a place for UUSNs to go, which is why I was so annoyed to discover that they stopped going to the -changes list
<Fujitsu> Erm, yes, N, I meant.
<Fujitsu> I've been looking at more DSAs late,y.
<Fujitsu> Hence the A.
<keescook> Fujitsu: also, it's still pushing, but it should be available in about 15 minutes: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cve-tracker/
 * keescook nods
<Fujitsu> ubuntu-universe-security@l.u.c, perhaps?
<Fujitsu> keescook: Who owns the branch?
<keescook> while long, u-u-s-announce matches the u-s-announce list
<keescook> Fujitsu: who-ever pushes one.  I figure there would be a motu-swat owned branch
<Fujitsu> keescook: OK, best to have consistency.
<keescook> and I could merge it to "master" which is under the ubuntu-security group
<Fujitsu> keescook: Makes sense, I think.
<keescook> Yeah, that doesn't work out, we can just redefine ownership (yay bzr!)
<Fujitsu> Rather `yay LP', but yep.
<keescook> well, I mean, we can just aim at a different branch and call that one "HEAD".  :P
<keescook> anyway, I spent a bunch of time to day (after PHP) working on some graphs
<keescook> which is my first step to some better reporting and visualization
<Fujitsu> keescook: I do hope you wrote them in PHP.
<Fujitsu> Just to add to the fun.
<keescook> Fujitsu: heheh.  nope, so far, python and gnuplot love
<Fujitsu> keescook: Are the current results anywhere public?
<keescook> Fujitsu: not yet
<LaserJock> anybody know any way to debug why a binary can't find a shared library, even though it's clearly there?
<minghua> strace?
<LaserJock> no such file or directory :/
<LaserJock> it's in /usr/local/lib/ dang it
<RAOF> Is /usr/local/lib in the ldpath?
<RAOF> LaserJock: Checked /etc/ld.so.conf{,.d}?  Run ldconf?  Does it work with LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib <binary>?
<RAOF> It's not the wrong architecture (IA32/x86-64?)
<LaserJock> ok, LD_LIBRARY_PATH worked
<LaserJock> why the heck wouldn't /usr/local/lib be in my path
<RAOF> I've seen a couple of people wondering thate.
<RAOF> I've not tried it myself.
<RAOF> Is /usr/local/lib somewhere in one of the /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ files?
<LaserJock> RAOF: it's in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf
<RAOF> Yeah, that's the one.
<LaserJock> ok, I ran ldconfig and now it works
<RAOF> That's odd.
<LaserJock> go figure
<LaserJock> I don't get it, but whatever
<RAOF> I thought ldconfig was run at essentially each pakcage install?
<RAOF> Oh, well.
<RAOF> Hm.  I know nouveau doesn't resume from suspend.  How about hibernate :)
 * RAOF shuffles off home.
<ScottK> LaserJock: How're the ponies coming?
<LaserJock> ScottK: not well I'm afraid
 * ScottK has enjoyed reading them in the past, but I guess I'll have to wait then.
<LaserJock> I'm really trying, but lots of things are not going well this week
<ScottK> Sure.  I'll read them when you get to them.  No pressure.
<RAOF> Yay, apport's back on.
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<dholbach> hey imbrandon
<TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
<dholbach> hey TheMuso
<imbrandon> err
<LaserJock> wow, I'm about to expire
<pwnguin> imbrandon: did anyone from ACM get in touch with you?
<imbrandon> yup
<pwnguin> okays
<imbrandon> forgot his name but yea
<pwnguin> they can be kinda not on top of the ball
<Fujitsu> ACM?
<StevenK> LaserJock: I renewed my membership in members about an hour ago
<pwnguin> association for computing machinery
<LaserJock> StevenK: lol
<StevenK> LaserJock: I have this vague feeling we hit members during the same meeting
<LaserJock> perhaps so
 * pwnguin hacked his router today
<pwnguin> it seems linksys stores network keys in cleartext on nvram
<LaserJock> I wish the Americian Society of Mechanical Engineers would leave me alone
<Fujitsu> Oh wow, 793 proposed members... that's impressive.
<LaserJock> I got to one little conference and they think I'm an engineer
<pwnguin> proposed members to what?
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: ~ubuntumembers
<pwnguin> is that a disjoint set of -developers?
<LaserJock> now I get a "Join ASME Today!" letter like every month
<StevenK> pwnguin: Nope, membership is completly different
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: It's general contributors.
<Fujitsu> Developers are a subset of members.
<pwnguin> StevenK, Fujitsu: one of you is wrong
<LaserJock> no, they are both right
<imbrandon> they are both right
<pwnguin> world explodes
<LaserJock> and now imbrandon and I are both right
<imbrandon> haha
<LaserJock> phew, we got this one nailed down
<slangasek> no, only one of you is right
<pwnguin> well
<pwnguin> once you have a contradiction, you can claim anything
<LaserJock> where's the contradiction?
<LaserJock> ubuntumembers is not about developers
<imbrandon> well when you get to be a developer your automaticly a member if you werent already, but membership is give for other reasons too
<pwnguin> but every developer is a member
<LaserJock> right
<StevenK> pwnguin: But not every member is a developer.
<pwnguin> which means they are related :P
<LaserJock> pwnguin: well not in purpose
<LaserJock> only in membership
<pwnguin> anyways, what was the last thing ubuntu-members voted on?
<LaserJock> so I would say "completly different" would be correct
<LaserJock> pwnguin: I think they only have ever voted on Community Council memebership
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: The CC elections.
<Fujitsu> Well, the last CC election.
<imbrandon> and you get a spiffy @ubuntu.com email addresss :)
 * Fujitsu swishes his cloak.
<pwnguin> can you put the logo on your business card? ^_^
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> yea, and a cloak
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: You are authorised to carry Ubuntu business cards.
<pwnguin> anyways, why's it surprising to see so many members?
<slangasek> but only core-dev are allowed to carry Ubuntu business cards with poison tips
<Fujitsu> slangasek: Haha.
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Proposed members.
<Fujitsu> Twice as many as real members.
<imbrandon> slangasek: ohhhh where do i order mine ?
<pwnguin> ah
<pwnguin> imbrandon: well, you have to pick them up at the ninja council
<imbrandon> is that in skeltors castle ? heh
<imbrandon> ugh, if its not one thing its another ...... brb
 * Fujitsu sneaks another nasty onto imbrandon's plate.
<LaserJock> where the heck is my Battle Cat?
<imbrandon> he's cringer right now, and hiding behind orko
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Only ubuntu-release gets Ubuntu Battle Cats.
<LaserJock> pfft
<LaserJock> but I'm in the MOTU trinity :(
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: They get Golden Ponies.
<LaserJock> then how come I've never gotten one? :(
 * imbrandon forgets whom the original trinity was
<imbrandon> crimsun, LaserJock, and ajmitch ?
<LaserJock> you, bddebian, and myself I think
<LaserJock> oh hmm
<LaserJock> I don't remember
<imbrandon> ahh i thought we were the second comming of the trinity
<LaserJock> but I'm in it dang it!
<imbrandon> no idea, been to many nights of sleep since then
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: s/of/of no/?
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> crimsun coined it, ask him later :)
<LaserJock> and he has a photographic memory
<LaserJock> which means he can remember our IRC chat
<LaserJock> ;-)
<imbrandon> hrm is there a way to remove non-ascii chars from a string without also stripping the linebreaks etc ?
<imbrandon> ( python )
<lifeless> linebreaks are ascii
<lifeless> ord(char) < 128 gives you ascii IIRC
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> k
<slangasek> but maybe that's not what you mean by "non-ascii"?
<imbrandon> well there is some chars that look like blocks with numbers i need to remove
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> rss hates them
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> sounds like you just need to encode your unicode string appropriately; whack a utf8 coding on your rss feed and encode as utf8
<lifeless> you'll need /some/ entity escaping but thats easy enough
<imbrandon> hrm
<imbrandon> see the char on col 0, line 441 in http://rss.ubuntuwire.com/xml/ubuntu-universe-sponsors.xml
<imbrandon> ( no idea what it is )
<RAOF> Hm.  Google reader seems to handle those OK: à®à®®à®¾à®à¯à®à¯ is what it spits out.
<imbrandon> all of them work but the ubuntu-universe-sponsors.xml one, liferea and firefox both choke on it
<imbrandon> bout to hit the sack though, i'll figure out why in the morning
<imbrandon> tried the utf-8 encoding
<imbrandon> dident seem to matter
<\sh> moins
<BugMaN>  
<Sikon> PPA can't build for hardy, can it?
<soren> Sikon: Sure it can.
<Sikon> Awesome.
<huats> morning all
<\sh> argl..fck...cacti.net is not even recovered
<\sh> gmrpf...starting to fix wireshark
 * Fujitsu returns.
<Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
<Fujitsu> \sh: ubuntu-cve's main branch is now on LP.
<effie_jayx> hello all
 * Hobbsee waves
<\sh> Fujitsu, cool :)
<magicfab> hi
<magicfab> Hobbsee, :)
<Hobbsee> hey magicfab
<magicfab> When I add the "partner" repo, (deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu gutsy partner) to my sources list, it gets ignored at update time and I don't see any of its applictions. any reason why ?
<Hobbsee> magicfab: where are you looking for it's applications?
<magicfab> Hobbsee, synaptic, etc..
<Hobbsee> magicfab: what's "etc" in this instance?
<magicfab> apt-get update output indicates this:
<magicfab> Ign http://archive.canonical.com gutsy/partner Translation-en_US
<magicfab> Ign http://archive.canonical.com gutsy/partner Packages
<magicfab> Hit http://archive.canonical.com gutsy/partner Packages
<magicfab> etc. is Add / Remove... under the Apps menu
<Hobbsee> it'll ignore it if there's nothing new
<magicfab> and apt-cache search and other similar tools
<Hobbsee> magicfab: erm, when did you guys get -partner up and running?
<Hobbsee> does mvo's script looking for desktop files even cover partner?
<magicfab> ok, but if I browse to the URL I see several packages which I don't see in any package mgmt tool
<Hobbsee> not even "apt-cache madison <packagename>" ?
<magicfab> Hobbsee, ~nov 6 according to the URL files dates
<magicfab> An example:
<magicfab> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/partner/v/vmware-server/
<magicfab> I am asking here becasue I figured it must be something I don't understand about general packaging
<Hobbsee> magicfab: does opera show up?
<magicfab> yes it does
<Hobbsee> magicfab: good.  for some reason, vmware-server, etc, aren't showing up in http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/partner/binary-i386/Packages.gz, so this is why your package manager is not finding them.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: app-install-data-commercial or similar does partner. It's separate.
<magicfab> I am thinking all the others are just the latest version under feisty, that's why they don't show up
<Hobbsee> magicfab: as for why, you'll have ot ask the soyuz guys why it's showing up in /pool/, but not in the package.gz's.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's only in Feisty.
<persia> Was there maybe not a binary copy from feisty to gutsy during the archive transition?
<Hobbsee> persia: it got removed from the standard archive.
<Fujitsu> persia: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vmware-server says no.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, feisty.  right.
<persia> That would do it.
<Fujitsu> Bug #155362
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 155362 in vmware-server "vmware not present in gutsy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155362
<Hobbsee> oh, hang on, vmware-player got removed from the archive
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  libssl0.9.7 issues.  That was -player though.
<magicfab> heh - no hardy-partner in http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/ yet
<kenkku> hello dear ubuntuers
<persia> magicfab: That likely won't appear until at least 14th December, as everything might need lots of rebuilds.
<Fujitsu> Hmmmmm, partner is special. It appears as the release pocket on the page I referenced.
<Fujitsu> Oh, woops.
<Fujitsu> It's a component now, of course.
<persia> Isn't that the difference between -commercial and -partner?
<Fujitsu> persia: Yes. (therefore partner shouldn't be referenced with a leading hyphen)
<magicfab> there is no more -commercial, AFAIK, only "partner"
<persia> Err.  Right -commercial vs. partner.  Nomenclature reset :)
<Fujitsu> magicfab: hardy partner is published... It's a component, so is just under hardy/, not hardy-partner/
<kenkku> I have been reading the ubuntu basic packaging guide. what's not clear to me is how one creates source packages
<magicfab> I knew I knew nothing about this :)
<persia> magicfab: Well, gutsy/hardy have partner, whereas dapper/edgy/feisty have -commercial.  It'll be another 41 monts before -commercial is completely gone.
<kenkku> I have sources for an app I'd like to package - but they're just in a tarball
<persia> kenkku: Are you starting with an upstream release package?
<Hobbsee> magicfab: right, so what you're seeing is that the package isn't in gutsy, which is why you can't find it.
<kenkku> persia: probably not, since I don't know what that is
<kenkku> I'd like to distribute it to a small group, not submit it to ubuntu reps or anything
<kenkku> maybe PPA
<magicfab> Hobbsee, ok, I jumped to conclusions when seing the content inhttp://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/partner/
<persia> kenkku: That's perfect.  You'll want to unpack the tarball, rename the parent directory to packagename-version, add a debian/ directory, and create four files: changelog, copyright, control, and rules.  The packaging guide starts with an example using the GNU hello package.
<persia> kenkku: An "upstream release package" would be the upstream tarball.
<Hobbsee> magicfab: yeah - that just relates to "that stuff exists in any one or more of the distros referenced in the other directory"
<magicfab> tx to all, I force my self to believe you're all in different timezones, not in EST where it's 8AM (too early for me)
<persia> magicfab: We're in a variety of timezones, but hours are also odd sometimes :)
<kenkku> persia: about the rules, can I just run the configure script (qmake in this case) on my own computer and use the makefile it generates?
<magicfab> persia, leave my fantasies intact, would you :) ?
<persia> kenkku: You'll want to have debian/rules run ./configure and then run make.  That means it will configure for the standard environment, rather than your personal workstation.
<persia> kenkku: Take a look at the example debian/rules in the packaging guide
<kenkku> well, there is no ./configure script for this application
<kenkku> so I should have rules run qmake and then make?
<persia> kenkku: Right.  Sorry.  debian/rules would run qmake :)
<kenkku> ok, now I get it
<kenkku> it was a bit confusing since the example in the package had the makefile in the debian/rules file
<persia> kenkku: The idea is to have debian/rules have all the steps that a human would normally do, so that it can be done automatically.
<kenkku> example in the tutorial I mean :P
<persia> Erg.  hello is a nice standard tutorial package, but that sounds confusing.
<kenkku> yes, i see now. good thing I came here to ask you :P
<kenkku> well, I guess it's time for a brief lunch now. thanks persia :)
 * persia enjoys licenses like "Use this code however you wish.  Public Domain.  No warranty." :)
<persia> kenkku: No problem.  If the package works well, please consider submitting it for inclusion in Ubuntu.
<Riddell> Fujitsu: I need your help
<Riddell> Fujitsu: this gnome-chemistry-utils I'm down to merge has defeated me
<Riddell> the goffice library is doing wonky things with version numbers
<Fujitsu> Riddell: Aha, hi. I saw a bug filed on that earlier.
<Fujitsu> Bug #172717
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172717 in gnome-chemistry-utils "[hardy] G-C-U FTBFS and Possible Merge" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172717
<Riddell> it needs something like this http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/gnome-chemistry.diff
<Riddell> but there's also API changes needed
<Fujitsu> Riddell: See the last three comments on that bug.
<Riddell> meh, all too complex for me, I think I need to leave it to the gnome experts
<effie_jayx> I got the man page ready for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985 ... can anyone help me as what to do next? .. I have read the man page for dh_installman and several other things. but I am still uncertain as to what next
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New]
<persia> effie_jayx: Put the manpage in debian/, add debian/manpage.1 (or whatever it's called) to debian/manpages (or debian/package.manpages depending on the existing packaging style).  Make sure dh_installman is being called in debian/rules.  Update the changelog.  Build a source package.  Build a binary package.  Check the binary to see if the manpage was installed correctly.  If so, generate a debdiff, attach it to the bug, and subscribe the sponsors
<effie_jayx> the package has a manpage ... but it does not have a manpage for a specifi porgram in the package
<persia> effie_jayx: Right.  Same procedure applies :)
<persia> effie_jayx: More verbosely, the package likely already has dh_installman and debian/manpages, so you should be able to just add to debian/manpages to get it to work, but it's always best to check things carefully.
<effie_jayx> there is no debian/manpages
<effie_jayx> nor the likes
<persia> effie_jayx: Is there any mention of manpages in debian/rules?
<effie_jayx> ther is a docs/man
<persia> effie_jayx: That's upstream manpages though.
<effie_jayx> let me check
<persia> Errr..  maybe.  Is it debian/docs/man?  Also, what does debian/rules do with docs/man?
<effie_jayx> no
<effie_jayx> it is upstream doc
<effie_jayx> not in debian
<effie_jayx> let me get you the bit that rules says
<effie_jayx> http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46217/ <--- rules bit that mentions manpages
<effie_jayx> this debian rules usas debhelper
<persia> effie_jayx: That's a really annoying way for it to be done: the packager is updating files in debian/ in debian/rules.  By my reading, it should grab any section 1  manpages in debian/ and stick them in the binary package, making your edit easier.  On the other hand, I think this is broken packaging, and recommend manually creating debian/ghc6.manpages containing the suggested line to make this explicit and clear.
<persia> For extra points, manually expand debian/*.1 to include the specific manpages to be installed.
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> I haven't the expretice to do this ... is there any doc that can help me?
 * persia looks for a second opinion that this is really broken packaging, as otherwise effie_jayx will be performing unnecessary work
<effie_jayx> persia,  I have a knack for getting tough stuff, don't I
<effie_jayx> ?
<persia> effie_jayx: Other than the dh_installman man page, I don't know of any docs for how to make it work.  It's just creating a text file, and altering the rules to not overwrite the text file during the build.
<RainCT> hi
<persia> hey RainCT
<effie_jayx> persia, I read the man page... and it does not tell me how to do it... it tells me the rationale behind it.. but not how it works...
<effie_jayx> is it just me doing.... dh_installmanpage manpage.1 <sourcedirectory>?
<persia> effie_jayx: Yeah: debhelper manpages can be opaque.  There's the source as the ultimate origin of behaviour description: it's just a perl script.
<effie_jayx> persia,  ok
<effie_jayx> I am checking man debhelper
<persia> effie_jayx: dh_installmanpages is deprecated.  Please use dh_installman.  If you run it without arguments, it collects arguments from debian/package.manpages (debian/ghc6.manpages in this case)
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> it was a typo
<effie_jayx> persia,  you mentioned broken packaging...
<effie_jayx> what should I do then...
<persia> effie_jayx: Right.  I think it's inappropriate to alter the contents of debian/ (excepting the build directories) at build-time.  This is done by auto-generating debian/ghc6.manpages (which I believe should be a static file).  On the other hand, I don't know that this is policy: it may only be my opinion.
<effie_jayx> I follow you opinion
<persia> effie_jayx: For minimal adjustment, just copy your manpage to debian/ and everything should work.  If you think I'm right, you could edit debian/rules to not do that, and hand-generate debian/ghc6.manpages.
<effie_jayx> persia,  I don't know what to put in debian rules to stop the autogeneration, is it just removing something
<persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Are you familar with shell scripting and make files?
<effie_jayx> no
<persia> Hmm...  That makes it trickier then :)  Are you willing to follow a detour?
<effie_jayx> sure
<soren> persia: AFAIK, there's not really any policy about what may or may not happen (within reason) during the build. The policy says that debian/rules should be a makefile with a few mandatory targets, and then it says something about what the resulting deb should be like. Anything in between is grey area.
<persia> OK.  Let me find a couple resources.
<soren> There a conventions that new packages should uphold and such, but no actual policy afaik.
<persia> soren: That matches my understanding of policy.  What's your opinion about debian/rules creating debhelper helper files?
<soren> persia: Such as?
<soren> persia: Oh, .install, .docs and such?
<persia> soren: "echo debian/*.1 > debian/ghc6.manpages" in debian/rules
<persia> Right.
<soren> I might frown, but that's it.
<persia> soren: Would you think it worth fixing if working on the package anyway?
<soren> I wouldn't reject anything based on that. Were it a new package, I would tell the person who did it that it might cause people to be surprised, which is bad, but in itself, I don't consider it a problem.
<soren> persia: I wouldn't carry a delta because of that, no.
<maiatoday> as a test to try to get my head around pacaging python I tried running the setup.py install for my python package but it doesn't work due to some missing modules it seems. This has to be fixed before I can package?
<persia> soren: Thanks for the second opinion.
<soren> persia: any time.
<soren> maiatoday: That's what build-depends are for.
<soren> maiatoday: Most programs have certain requirement that need to be fulfilled for them to be able to build properly. We put them in debian/control and the various tools will make sure they're installed when we try to build the package.
<persia> effie_jayx: Just add the manpage to debian/ and check to make sure it works, and don't attempt to fix debian/rules.  For an understanding of what echo debian/*.1 > debian/ghc6.manpages", http://steve-parker.org/sh/bourne.shtml may be helpful.
<maiatoday> I have all build depends installed, if I run the script in the subdirectory I untarzipped it it works fine but it isn't installed in the system
<effie_jayx> persia,  I think I can read what it does
<maiatoday> so looking at the setup.py it seems to have some modules missing which are part of the app
<soren> maiatoday: Oh, when you install the package afterwards, you don't get the right packages pulled in? Is that it?
<persia> effie_jayx: Now I'm confused.  My apologies if I misinterpreted "I don't know what to put in debian rules to stop the autogeneration".
<maiatoday> I tried doind a install from the unzipped dir before packaging
<maiatoday> so as better to understand what the rules should be doing in the first place
<Riddell> Hobbsee: have you poked geser about scons?
<persia> scons is broken again ?
<effie_jayx> persia,  mmm... ok no problem... I shall fetch another bug and lay this one to sleep
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i did a while ago, he said OK, then did nothing
<maiatoday> soren: so yes the not all .py modules provided by the developer are in the setup.py
<Hobbsee> Riddell: is it poke-about-main-merges-day?
<soren> maiatoday: Ok, that's what Depends are for :)
<effie_jayx> jdong,  ping
<soren> maiatoday: You need to look at the documentation of the software and see which python modules it needs and add them to debian/control under the package's "Depends:" field.
<Riddell> Hobbsee: I'm in that sort of a mood yes
<jdong> effie_jayx: yep?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i see.  well, feel free to merge scons, if you're feeling in a masochistic mood.
<effie_jayx> jdong,  could you look at this for a sec... it is the contents for the debian/rules manpage section  http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46217/
<effie_jayx> jdong,  how could I include my man page
<jdong> effie_jayx: I'm about to head out to class, perhaps someone else can review for you
<persia> effie_jayx: You just need to copy it to debian/ : it will get collected automatically (because debian/ghc6.manpages collects debian/*.1)
<effie_jayx> ok...
<effie_jayx> persia, but the autogeneration won't block it
<effie_jayx> ?
<persia> effie_jayx: Let's look at this step-by-step.  What does the autogenerated ghc6.manpages contain?
<effie_jayx> two manpage entries... dhc and dhci
<effie_jayx> is that what you meant?
<maiatoday> sorry for being thick soren, I already found the depend packages for the app and added to depends, things like gnome-python etc what I am talking about is the app consist of multiple developer written .py modules and I  if I try to install it doesn't put them where the main script can see them
<persia> maiatoday: That's a different issue.  You may have to temporarily set an alternate search path, or otherwise patch setup.py.
<soren> maiatoday: Oh.. I guess I'm the one being thick :)
<persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Now, how does it determine which files to list there?
<maiatoday> Mmm  maybe this is too big a task for a first one ...
<effie_jayx> persia,  I haven't found any .1 files nor the like... can't really tell
<persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Looking at debian/rules again, what happens before the autogeneration?
<effie_jayx> persia,  link to a source library?
<persia> effie_jayx: I think you're going too far above.  Let's go through the pastbin together.
<effie_jayx> ahh ok
<persia> What's line 3 do?
<effie_jayx> it takes each m (manpage??) in ghc or ghci and generates a manpage in debian/
<effie_jayx> ?
<persia> effie_jayx: Close enough (it actually appears to generate man links, but that's not important).
<persia> Now, what does line 4 do?
<effie_jayx> moves the contents in debian/tmp/usr/man/man1/ghc.1 to debian/ghc6.1
<persia> effie_jayx: Right (creating another manpage).  How about line 5?
<effie_jayx> copies the file in  utils/hp2ps/hp2ps.1  to debian/hp2ps-ghc6.1
<persia> Yep (creating yet another manpage).  So, what does line 6 put in gch6.manpages (roughly)?
<effie_jayx> it grabs all the *.1 files in debian/
<persia> So, when dh_installman runs, what happens?
<effie_jayx> it builds the manpages in the directory
<persia> effie_jayx: Right.  So, if you wanted to get an extra entry into ghc6.manpages, what's the easiest way to get it there?
<effie_jayx> leave it in debian/
<effie_jayx> like you said
<effie_jayx> and know I know why
<persia> effie_jayx: Now, for the last bit: check the clean: rule.  If the manpages are being deleted, you'll need to name your manpage so as not to be deleted, and add a copy statement to the manpage collection portion.
<persia> Does anyone know if CC-BY-SA 2.5 is GPLv2 compatible?  I know CC-BY-SA 3.0 is GPLv3 compatible, but don't remember when things changed.
<effie_jayx> persia,  rm -f debian/*.1  in the clean section
<effie_jayx> so no problem there
<effie_jayx> it'll erase the manpage...
<persia> effie_jayx: Except that it would delete your manpage if you named it debian/mymanpage.1, and so it wouldn't be there later :)
<persia> You'll want to give it a name like executablefile.man, and then mv debian/executablefile.man debian/executablefile.1 in the manpage aggregation section.
<effie_jayx> ok
<geser> Riddell: you mean merging scons? see the last comment on bug #157668
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157668 in scons "[Merge] scons 0.97.0d20070918-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157668
<Riddell> geser: ah hah, thanks
<persia> geser: Is "wontfix" best?  How about "Incomplete"?
<persia> (thinking about bug reuse for when the new upstream is available)
<geser> persia: perhaps it's really better to set it to "Incomplete" so others can also see it
<persia> geser: That too :)
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> i am all set to begin changelog and building packages
<geser> I hope that it doesn't get sponsored
<persia> geser: Request a sponsor to unsubscribe in #ubuntu-devel
<geser> dholbach: can you unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from bug #157668?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157668 in scons "[Merge] scons 0.97.0d20070918-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157668
<dholbach> geser: done
<effie_jayx> persia,  pbuider gives me this error E: Could not satisfy build-dependency. E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<persia> effie_jayx: OK.  Which package couldn't it find?
<effie_jayx> persia,  W: Unable to locate package haddock
<geser> effie_jayx: which arch are you on?
<effie_jayx> i386
<jdong> I think I found a bug in pbuilder-satisfydepends though I don't have time to reproduce
<geser> effie_jayx: hardy?
<effie_jayx> geser,  my pbuilder is updated for hardy
<effie_jayx> yes
<persia> effie_jayx: Odd.  I show that built for both gutsy and hardy (and up to date).  Is it a versioned dependency?
<geser> effie_jayx: have you universe enabled inside the pbuilder?
<effie_jayx> geser,  how could  Icheck
<kenkku> I think I'm getting an inch closer to a package :o
<geser> effie_jayx: the easiest way would be to login into the pbuilder and check /etc/apt/sources.list
<jdong> soren: if you have a chance, can you confirm bug 125107 with the default Hardy pbuilder-satisfydepends variant too?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125107 in pbuilder "[gutsy] pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi can't resolve pure virtual build-depends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/125107
<jdong> soren: I had the default dummy variant say it can't satisfy a depends because "it's a virtual package" but the old slow method did it fine
<persia> jdong: Some people would say that was a bug in the package, and that the package should prefer a real package, and only have the virtual package as a backup.
<soren> persia: And I would agree with them.
<jdong> lol ok, it's PEBKAC on my side then ;-)
<jdong> slomo: just the man I needed....
<persia> jdong: Perhaps not.  Last I know that was still a bug against debian policy, and hadn't been included yet.  Still :)
<soren> Otherwise the resulting build depends on whichever implementation of the virtual package the dependency resolver chooses to go with, which is quite undefined.
<effie_jayx> geser,  tried login in... id: cannot find name for group ID 122
<slomo> jdong: yes? :)
<jdong> slomo: what are your feelings on marillat's packaging of faac 1.26? I noticed back in breezy days you didn't like it?
<jdong> slomo: I'm chasing up that wonderful dependency tree from mpeg4ip :)
<geser> effie_jayx: shouldn't matter, you should be now root inside the pbuilder environment
<slomo> jdong: no idea, iirc the packaging wasn't beautiful but i don't care anymore :)
<effie_jayx> ok
<slomo> jdong: be warned that 1.25 or 1.26 changed ABI without soname change
<jdong> slomo: yeah I realized that'd happen
<geser> jdong: is it still a tree or already a forest?
<jdong> slomo: so yay I'll have to check all of faac's rdepends too :)
<jdong> geser: this is when I hope deforestation would go faster!
<effie_jayx> geser,  you were right... I only got main
<jdong> slomo: ok, thanks for your time :)
<slomo> jdong: np ;)
<geser> effie_jayx: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e61fa0f52f7f2442fb20f074813bd691744460b
<effie_jayx> geser,  it reads etch... contrib non-free ...
<effie_jayx> I add the ubuntu sources?
<effie_jayx> like main universe restricted multiverse?
<geser> the important line is COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<geser> I've added it to my /etc/pbuilderrc but ~/.pbuilderrc should also work
<ScottK> maiatoday: Did you get your setup.py problem sorted out?
<maiatoday> ScottK: not yet, I'm messing with it and I have also mailed the developer
<ScottK> maiatoday: From reading the scrollback, it's not clear you did all the steps for a normal setup.py installation.
<ScottK> maiatoday: First you have to run python setup.py build
<maiatoday> aah maybe that will help me, I am also learning python, yes I did setup.py build
<ScottK> maiatoday: Then you have to run python setup.py install.
<maiatoday> yes that's what I did
<ScottK> maiatoday: The install has to run as root (sudo)
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> From the scrollback I missed that you'd built it.
<maiatoday> OK I'll wipe things and try again, I didn't say so explicitly
<maiatoday> I am reading docs on distributing python  modules at docs.python.org
<ScottK> Also if you run python setup.py it should give you all the options you can run it with.  Perhaps something there is needed.
<ScottK> maiatoday: Good luck.  They're a bit thin IIRC.
<maiatoday> I have added all modules to setup.py now it feels better about the modules but it is moaning about glade and icons and there is no data_files bit in the setup.py
 * ScottK can't help you much there as the stuff I've done doesn't use glade.
 * maiatoday hasn't either but that's part of the fun :)
<kenkku> where can I find information on where to put all the files?
<kenkku> I need to find a place for the data files
<kenkku> is there a guide on what to put where?
<geser> !FHS
<ubotu> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<geser> kenkku: data files are usually below /usr/share/<packagename>
<kenkku> geser: ok, and thanks for the link
<kenkku> I'm starting to get this. so in the rules file I should also move the data files and documentation and so on to their correct places?
<effie_jayx> geser,  I thought I did a pbuilder update to hardy... but I see this line in /etc/pbuilderrc   "# specifying the distribution forces the distribution on "pbuilder update" DISTRIBUTION=gutsy
<effie_jayx> cprov-lunch,  that's mean... I am hungry and I won't get to eat for another hour and a half...
<effie_jayx> ;)
<effie_jayx> geser,  thanks
 * dholbach hugs nixternal
<bddebian> Heya gang
<somerville32> Hiya bddebian :)
<bddebian> Hi somerville32
<ScottK> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<somerville32> Can multiverse is non-free right but does it still have to be open-source?
<ScottK> somerville32: It has to be distributable
<somerville32> Ok, so I can upload a binary blob in the source package and all is good?
<ScottK> That said, most MOTUs are reluctant to add stuff there without good reason.
<somerville32> Well, I really enjoy playing Gate88 and I'd love to share it with people, lol
<ScottK> If it's distributable, it's allowed, but finding a MOTU willing to hold their nose and do it is another matter.
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<norsetto> anyone knows where is the cc meeting?
<dholbach> #ubuntu-meeting
<norsetto> oh right, was joining #ubuntu-meetings ;-)
<ScottK> norsetto: I mentioned your Debian RFS to POX_ on #debian-python and he said he'd have a look at it this weekend.  You might want to hang out there (on OFTC).
<norsetto> ScottK: sure, thanks for that
<ScottK> norsetto: No trouble.  I'm pleased you're taking the trouble to push stuff back up into Debian.
<norsetto> scottk: most probably debichem will take it on board too
<nxvl_work> norsetto: the bootcd DM write to me, i have updated the bug #165030
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
<ScottK> OK.  Well discuss it with POX_ about who should sponsor.
<norsetto> nxvl_work: yeah, I just looked at it, seems the debdiff is against your. dsc not the ubuntu one :-)
<LaserJock> norsetto: welcome to debichem ;-)
<norsetto> LaserJock: heya
<nxvl_work> oh! yes, i forget where the original one was
<nxvl_work> making a new one
<norsetto> LaserJock: I didn't know you were in debichem :-)
<POX_> norsetto: how about this: gelemental in debichem and pyelemental in DPMT?
<proppy> what is debichem ?
<POX_> http://debichem.alioth.debian.org/
<proppy> found it
<nxvl_work> norsetto: done
<proppy> hop fixed python-biopython will get into it :)
<norsetto> POX_: the only problem is that pyelemental depends on libelemental-dev, so they have to keep a version sync
<norsetto> POX_: if that is possible with these packages being in two teams, I have no problem of course
<POX_> they're two separate source packages, right?
<norsetto> POX_: yes
<POX_> well, we can only take pyelemental so if you want to keep them together, choose debichem
<POX_> but we know more about python then debichem ;-P
<norsetto> POX_: I can imagine :-)
<norsetto> POX_: can you talk with Daniel Leidert about it? If it works to have the two in two separate teams I'm for it
<POX_> I didn't look at them yet, but if they're two separate source pacakges, I don't see a problem
<POX_> it's up to you where do you want to keep your package
<LaserJock> norsetto: I am indeed, although I haven't contributed all that much
<norsetto> POX_: for me, as long as they are in Debian, I'm happy
<nxvl_work> ScottK: why it isn't any TODO on the MOTU/Python team?
<ScottK> nxvl_work: Because there isn't a lot of actual doing going on.  It's more of a dive in and work on what you feel like.  Also because ajmitch and I are both pretty bitter.
<nxvl_work> mm
<nxvl_work> ok
<norsetto> POX_: I need to talk with Daniel anyhow tonight; I expect he doesn't particularly want to deal with a python binding package himself, in that case I'll be happy if you can consider it for your team
<afflux> dholbach: updated the gdecrypt package to fix the issues raised by emmet: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=786
<POX_> norsetto: your or *our* team?
<dholbach> afflux: rock and roll - in a meeting right now, so I hope you find somebody else to look at it right now
<POX_> norsetto: do you want to join?
<POX_> just give me you alioth account name and read our policy
<afflux> dholbach: okay, sorry to disturb you ;)
<norsetto> POX_: should be norsetto_guest, let me check
<dholbach> afflux: no problem
<norsetto> POX_: well, norsetto-guest
<MenZa> RainCT, congrats on the membership---impressive wikipage.
<POX_> norsetto: I'll add you in a minute
<norsetto> POX_: thanks
<afflux> I'd like to get my package in universe, so could any motu please have a look at it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=786 ? Thanks!
<RainCT> thanks MenZa :)
 * RainCT is overjoyed :)
<somerville32> afflux, I'll take a look.
<ScottK> RainCT: Congratulations.
<afflux> somerville32, thanks
<norsetto> congrats rainct!
<huats> RainCT: congrats again... you deserves it... really :) (in fact I was really suprised to see you on the agenda)
<geser> RainCT: GlÃ¼ckwunsch
<geser> if you still understand some german
<RainCT> thanks all again :D
<RainCT> heh danke geser :)
<RainCT> verstehen schon.. das problem ist schreiben ;)
<MenZa> :D
<dholbach> RainCT: now you need to start blogging on planet ubuntu about how you become a MOTU :)
<RainCT> dholbach: heh :)
<Kmos> RainCT is a MOTU now ?
<RainCT> dholbach: well, I'm planning to write something about merging :)
<RainCT> Kmos: no, Ubuntu Member
<RainCT> Kmos: uh.. didn't you want to apply today too?
<Kmos> RainCT: that's nice.. i don't know it was today.. but i'm not at home during the day until 11th december
<kenkku> it is just a matter of seconds if my thing works now..
<kenkku> yes!
<kenkku> I managed to create a package :)
<POX_> norsetto: you're new DPMT member, welcome :)
<norsetto> POX_: hey thanks!
<LaserJock> heh, that was easy
<proppy> ahah doctor norsetto
<kenkku> whoa, this is actually fairly easy.
<POX_> I will be leaving office soon (10h is enough for today) and my motherboard burned so I cannot take a look at your package today
<somerville32> Kmos, It is still on going
<norsetto> POX_: np, let me know when you can, I'm looking forward to receive your comments
<POX_> join #debian-python and ask there once you will svn-inject you package or wait till Saturday (I will have another computer for the weekend)
<somerville32> Kmos, If you want a chance for your membership, get in #ubuntu-meeting
<POX_> s/you/your
<Kmos> somerville32: thank you very much
<somerville32> Kmos, np :)
<somerville32> Good luck Kmos
<Kmos> somerville32: thanks
<somerville32> afflux, Ok, lets go through your package
<somerville32> +XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Kjell Braden <fnord@pentabarf.de> <-- Not needed.
<afflux> somerville32: I think *something* complained, when I removed it, but I'm not very sure.
<somerville32> dh_installdocs changelog.gz <-- Changelog isn't a doc :P
<afflux> somerville32: okay, so just dh_install?
<somerville32> I assume you added that because of Persia's statement about the upstream changelog not being installed
<afflux> correct
<somerville32> Use dh_installchangelogs
<afflux> somerville32: does the changelog has to be gzip compressed then?
<somerville32> The changelog is already gzip compressed it appears from upstream
<somerville32> Just use dh_installchangelogs to install the changelog
<afflux> somerville32: okay. about the original-maintainer thing: should I just ignore "dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field"?
<somerville32> afflux, Correct.
<afflux> somerville32: should I upload a fixed package right now?
<somerville32> afflux, not yet. Still slowly looking at it
<afflux> somerville32: no hurry ;)
<LaserJock> dholbach: six months?
<dholbach> LaserJock: hum
<LaserJock> dholbach: sorry, Mark's comment in -meeting. It used to be 2 months of contribution
<geser> then it has tripled since I applied for membership (it was 2 months back at that time (which is only little over a year back))
<imbrandon> geser: same here
<LaserJock> methinks Mark make a mistake or something
 * somerville32 doesn't think so.
<somerville32> afflux, There is a problem with your debian/control :)
<geser> somerville32: do you know when it changed? I don't follow CC meetings regularly
<somerville32> geser, No but it make sense to me that the time will be increases the project grows.
<LaserJock> why?
<LaserJock> if it took 2 months of sustained involvement back then it should take 2 months now
<somerville32> Ubuntu was smaller then
<LaserJock> why does that make a difference?
<LaserJock> that would just be punishing people who came later
<somerville32> Universities used to let you redo courses now they don't tend to
<somerville32> It is the credibility of the ubuntu membership
<geser> somerville32: afaik it's possible to become a motu in less than 6 months
<LaserJock> that doesn't make any sense to me
<LaserJock> 2 months for memeber, 3 months for MOTU, that should work fine
<afflux> somerville32: what kind of problem?
<LaserJock> if people take longer fine
<LaserJock> but it should be doable
<somerville32> afflux, You need a XS-Python-Version ad XB-Python-Version
<afflux> somerville32: /usr/share/doc/python-support/README.gz line 40-42 tells different
 * somerville32 goes to look
<geser> XS-P-V and XB-P-V is only used by python-central, python-support doesn't need it
<somerville32> Yea, that just started to dawn on me
<somerville32> afflux, Looks fine to me
<afflux> somerville32: okay, uploading
<somerville32> I meant the source, I haven't tried building it yet
<somerville32> Although I think pysupport is a build-dep and not a build-dep-indep
<afflux> somerville32: that was from http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy: "Add a Build-Depends (or Build-Depends-Indep if the package is arch: all) on python-support (>= 0.5.3)."
<somerville32> Alright. I just brought that up because p-s/README.gz had said build-dep
<kenkku> where can I find information on how the version numbering goes in the ubuntu repositories? I can see things like package-1.0.0-0ubuntu1
<somerville32> afflux, +1
<somerville32> kenkku, <packagename.version>-<debian revision><ubuntu revision>
<afflux> somerville32: thanks. It's uploaded as http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787
<geser> kenkku: I don't rememeber if we have a page for it, but it's not difficult: -XubuntuY where X is the debian revision (0 if there is no Debian package for this package or version yet) and Y the Ubuntu revision (starting at 1)
<effie_jayx> thepumpkin_w, sup
<kenkku> thank you geser and somerville32
<maiatoday> why would one choose to use python-support rather than python-central or vice versa?
<geser> maiatoday: personal preference
<thepumpkin_w> effie_jayx: everything is fine. i'm preparing some content.
<maiatoday> :) thanks
<thepumpkin_w> what about you?
<effie_jayx> god that building is taking long
<effie_jayx> (3 hours now)
<Kmos> :)
<effie_jayx> my first build :D
<effie_jayx> I think it will work
<effie_jayx> I have to install as well right?
<geser> effie_jayx: what are building?
<effie_jayx> geser,  that ghc6 packages with a manpage fix
<effie_jayx> I would like to see if the manpage is taken correctly
<effie_jayx> there is a script in the manpages section in debian/rules that was making really confusing the whole thing
<effie_jayx> so I just wanna be sure
<geser> effie_jayx: you build should finish soon (the buildds needed around 2h)
<effie_jayx> I learned ALOT with this bug
<geser> that's good
<effie_jayx> thank you guys
<effie_jayx> I feel a little less noob
<Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnokii
<Kmos> someone knows why soren changed the dependency when it builds fine in hardy pbuilder ?
<norsetto> kmos: libbluetooth2-dev is a virtual package (provided by libbluetooth-dev)
<Kmos> so there is no reason to continue to do merge of gnokii
<ajmitch> wasn't this just covered in -devel?
<Kmos> ajmitch: yes.. but i want to make sure with motu's =)
<Kmos> and because soren does an upload to hardy recently and changed again the build-depends
<Kmos> I see that after the -devel discussion
<ajmitch> and it's definitely a good idea to build-depend against the real package - I can't recall if it'll even work on the buildds against a virtual package
<ajmitch> so yes, soren was right
<Kmos> hmm..
<Kmos> i can send it to PPA to test
<imbrandon> ello ajmitch and norsetto
 * imbrandon yawns
<slangasek> ajmitch: yes, building against a virtual package has always worked; it's just wrong if the virtual package has more than one provider because you have no guarantee of which one gets picked
<norsetto> hiya imbradon, nice color of the higher intestine
<imbrandon> norsetto: huh?
<ajmitch> slangasek: right, wasn't sure
<norsetto> * imbrandon yawns
<Kmos> slangasek: i'll test it with ppa..
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon
<imbrandon> ohh
<imbrandon> lol
<StevenK> slangasek: I am too late to fix bluez-utils?
<slangasek> StevenK: ?
<slangasek> StevenK: you mean for alpha-1?
<StevenK> slangasek: Right
<slangasek> StevenK: yes, go away :)
<StevenK> Haha
<imbrandon> uploads of things that arent supose to be on the cd should be "OK" in this self imposed freeze correct ?
<slangasek> imbrandon: yes
<imbrandon> k, just double checking
<StevenK> slangasek: It impacts video playback for pretty much everyone, though...
<imbrandon> StevenK: bluez-utils does ?
<slangasek> ...
<StevenK> imbrandon: Right, it installs a sink at too high a priority
<imbrandon> ummm errm ok
<StevenK> slangasek: Sorry, I'm on the phone, but trying to deal with this
<slangasek> StevenK: the standard for alpha-1 is "can boot it, can install it, hard drive doesn't catch on fire."  I think you can see that video playback is a lower priority.
<Kmos> StevenK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles -> .desktop file fails validation:
<Kmos> StevenK: the command doesn't work
<imbrandon> slangasek: are you the RM for all hardy also ? or just gutsy ?
<Kmos> StevenK: or it's supposed to show only the ones that fails validation..
<StevenK> slangasek: Okay, then I'll fix it, but not upload it
<Kmos> and not the warnings/errors
<slangasek> imbrandon: for hardy, yes
<StevenK> Kmos: How doesn't it work?
<slangasek> imbrandon: it's an open-ended employment... :)
<imbrandon> ahhh ok, i thought you did gutsy and it was changed every release, not that i care, just curious :)
<slangasek> imbrandon: that's not actually been the /intent/, that's just how it's worked out historically :)
<Kmos> StevenK: forget.. i'm thinking in another type of function.. like to show the errors/warnings from desktop-file-validation
<imbrandon> s/it/the\ RM
<imbrandon> right
<StevenK> Kmos: I'm a little busy right now
<imbrandon> slangasek: rockin , well hope everything keeps going as smooth as can be :) dident realize that wasent the intent , glad to hear actualy
<Kmos> StevenK: np =)
<imbrandon> after one or two and the processes are smoothed i'm sure the previous experinces makes it easier
<slangasek> one hopes. :)
 * imbrandon gets back to the weatherreport
<StevenK> Kmos: Now, explain the problem to me, in small words.
<Kmos> StevenK: i thought the script was wrong.. but it reports only the files that have problems and not the output of desktop-file-validate.. there isn't a problem with it =)
 * RainCT is still wondering why Â«dpkg-source -xÂ» sometimes doesn't do anything until I Ctrl+C and try again, with Debian packages
<StevenK> Kmos: That was the point of it.
<Kmos> StevenK: yeah =) i understand it, thx anyway
<Kmos> i think i change it to me to show the output =)
<jdong> RainCT: probably a GPG related lock
<jdong> once I've had a stale GPG lock that "broke" dpkg-source -x
<geser> broonie: re bug #157668: the status change was done so others can see the status of it and don't try to merge it (won't fix isn't shown by default). the sponsoring team got unsubscribed from it, so there should be little danger that someone uploads it.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 157668 in scons "[Merge] scons 0.97.0d20070918-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157668
<RainCT> jdong: how did you solve that?
<jdong> RainCT: use ps to search for stale gpg processes, then if all else fails dive into ~/.gnupg deleting lock files
<lifeless> there is a bug on evo
<lifeless> it creates stale locks
 * RainCT doesn't use evolution
 * somerville32 decides to do some merges
 * RainCT is also doing merges :)
 * somerville32 decides to do harvestman
<jdong> it's cheating to count myself as a verification towards my own SRU, right?
<ScottK> jdong: Yes.
<jdong> hehe.
<effie_jayx> hey norsetto  that bug was jinxed... hehe
<norsetto> effie_jayx: the man pages?
<effie_jayx> yeh
<effie_jayx> the man pages in debian/rules had a generating scripts for the manpages
<norsetto> which was bugged or?
<effie_jayx> it involved a script for generating the manpages
<imbrandon> heya jono
<jono> hey
<effie_jayx> I am currently building the package
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  whay do you say desktop bugs are Darkside?
<norsetto> effie_jayx: just jocking with daniel
<effie_jayx> ahhh
<effie_jayx> but they are tougher bugs to fix I imagine
<norsetto> effie_jayx: I wouldn't think so
<norsetto> effie_jayx: the first bug I fixed was a desktop bug actually :-)
<effie_jayx> mmm ... I might give it a try
<somerville32> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/harvestman/+bug/172926
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172926 in harvestman "Sync harvestman 1.4.6-6 from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New]
<norsetto> effie_jayx: you could do bug 158941
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 158941 in rhythmbox "can't browse jamendo collection from rhythmbox plugin" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158941
<norsetto> effie_jayx: its a patch for upstream, just needs to be debdiffed
<RainCT> uh.. why has ebview priority "extra"?
<RainCT> shouldn't it be optional?
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  I'll give it a look...  thanks ...
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  so basically I just have to build a package from that debdiff and try it out?
<norsetto> effie_jayx: first, check if the patch from upstream correct the issue which is reported
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  I apply the patch
<norsetto> effie_jayx: then implement it (check if there is a patch system already, if not, add it), add a changelog entry, change maintainer (if needed)
<norsetto> effie_jayx: its a desktop applicationa and its in main, so you have your challenge :-)
<effie_jayx> cool
<norsetto> effie_jayx: check if that has been fixed in debian too and remember that we fix it for hardy
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Lanmap fix uploaded.
<norsetto> effie_jayx: once you are happy, do a debdiff, attach it and subscribe u-m-s
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: thnx
 * nxvl_work *HUGS* TheMuso
<norsetto> TheMuso: you are looking for accessibility bugs, right?
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  funny how I can't reproduce the bug
<TheMuso> norsetto: If you know of any, I'll take a look, but I do my best to track all accessibility related packaes.
<TheMuso> packages
<norsetto> TheMuso: yes, I saw one this morning, let me check if I can find it, it was about fish :-)
<TheMuso> norsetto: Sure
<norsetto> TheMuso: bug 172751
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172751 in fish "I am visially impaired, i can't increase the font size in wanda" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172751
<TheMuso> norsetto: Thanks. I'll have a look.
<norsetto> effie_jayx: hmmm, so, you can't reproduce? This is bad ... there was a comment that this wasn't easy to reproduce
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: For your latest bootcd debdiff, is having quilt in build-depends and build-depends-indep intensional?
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: not, i made a mistake
<nxvl_work> solving
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<effie_jayx> some funky music in jamendo :D
<effie_jayx> better find me another bug :D
 * effie_jayx fetches sumthing from LP
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: fixed and uploaded
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Thanks.
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: thank you for sponsoring them :D
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: You're welcome.
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Have you tested this fix?
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: yep
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Great.
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: it doesn't work there?
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: I haven't tried it. I was looking at the syntax change, and just wanted to be sure it had been tested.
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: oh, yes it has, i make the patch and build the package
<nxvl_work> using pbuilder
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: BTW, don't worry about it now, but please make sure you create debdiffs between two packages in the same directory. I had to manually tell patch where to patch files when attempting to apply your latest diff.
<RainCT> cool, I see Launchpad Janitor is again at work :P
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: yes, i usualy do it, but in this specific case i don't know why i changed the original .dsc so i have to use another one :(
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: Ok thats fine, just letting you know.
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: thnx for the tip :D
<nxvl_work> !build-queue
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about build-queue - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl_work> !build
<ubotu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
<nxvl_work> !build queue
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about build queue - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<nxvl_work> !launchpad-buildd-admins queue
<nxvl_work> where is the build queue on LP?
<StevenK> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+queue
<TheMuso> nxvl_work: bootcd uploaded
<nxvl_work> TheMuso: thnx again
<nxvl_work> StevenK: it isn't there
<StevenK> What isn't there?
<StevenK> More context would be helpful.
<nxvl_work> StevenK: the queue on that link
<jpatrick> "Page not found"
<DarkMageZ> apachelogger, have you managed to test if the fix for pm 1.0 works for you? https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4648238
<StevenK> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue
<nxvl_work> StevenK: thnx
<TheMuso> norsetto: Thanks for that bug, unfrotunately since it uses ncurses, nothing can be done to change font size other than use it in a GUI terminal, and change the terminal font size.
<StevenK> That's the what's about to hit the archive, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds is what's going to build next
<TheMuso> unfrotunately
<norsetto> TheMuso: yes, I'm contagious :-)
<apachelogger> DarkMageZ: *trying*
<TheMuso> ugh typing
<apachelogger> DarkMageZ: doesn't work for me... gotta investigate tomorrow
 * apachelogger heads off to bed
<apachelogger> nini
<TheMuso> RainCT: Why did you mark bug 172922 incomplete?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172922 in ebview "Please merge ebview-0.3.6-3.1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172922
<RainCT> TheMuso: because it's using no patch system, so the patch there isn't being applied
<TheMuso> RainCT: Do you need helpin getting dpatch working
<RainCT> TheMuso: I've a new debdiff where I apply that patch directly to the source ready, but I'm trying to pbuild it before I attach it
<norsetto> ok, I better go to bed
<RainCT> good night norsetto :)
<TheMuso> RainCT: IMO, a patch that big should not be applied inline in the .diff.gz. A patch system is much better and safer.
<norsetto> rainct: g'night (and listen to TheMuso :-))
<nxvl_work> did the tribe 1 iso is somewhere to download it?
<RainCT> nxvl_work: afaik it's not ready yet
<RainCT> ah tribe 1
<nxvl_work> RainCT: on the release shedule it says it will be up today
<slangasek> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/All for anyone who'd like to help test alpha 1 ISOs
<RainCT> is it also called tribe for hardy?
<nxvl_work> it also called tribe for every version i think
<effie_jayx> no
<slangasek> no
<imbrandon> no
<slangasek> it's called "alpha"
<TheMuso> Which IMO makes more sense.
<effie_jayx> a tribe is for primates
 * RainCT thinks that it was "herd" previously
<imbrandon> its been alot of things
<StevenK> It's been multiple things, it changed for every release
<TheMuso> RainCT: You also need to resolve a conflict in src/ebview.c
<effie_jayx> it'll be a flock again
<effie_jayx> since it flies
<Fujitsu> effie_jayx: No it won't, but `again'?
<TheMuso> urm sorry you probably did that
<imbrandon> ugh, i hate when you find usefull patches for software AFTER you just make a major update
<nxvl_work> it was funny to see 3 "no"'s one after the other
<effie_jayx> Fujitsu,  sorry I made a mistake ... I remember edgy being flight...
<effie_jayx> not flock
<effie_jayx> nooo it was dapper
<nxvl_work> well
<Fujitsu> Newts don't fly too well.
<RainCT> TheMuso: Debian applied the same fix as Ubuntu there
<RainCT> (but commenting with // instead of /* */)
<nxvl_work> it is alpha 1 iso up there to download it or do i need to install gutsy and upgrade it?
<TheMuso> RainCT: Right.
<imbrandon> 17:58 < slangasek> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/All for anyone who'd like to help test alpha 1 ISOs
<imbrandon> nxvl_work: ^^
<somerville32> On DaD, some are marked as No need to sync. Why?
<nxvl_work> oh!
<RainCT> TheMuso: what's the problem then? should I note that on the bug report?
<nxvl_work> i didn't see that
<nxvl_work> :(
<imbrandon> :P
<effie_jayx> i just finished the building of the package with pbuilder... :D. what next... I install ?
<TheMuso> RainCT: The only problem I see so far, is that there is no patch system set up to make the patch apply.
<slangasek> nxvl_work: note that these are still the images for /testing/ prior to posting them as an alpha
<Lutin> somerville32: usually means that the debian changes are not worth merging
<TheMuso> Just including the patch like you did is not going to work.
<RainCT> TheMuso: so you think it's better to add dpatch then directly patching?
<RainCT> TheMuso: (for Debian, the bug is already reported and a link the the patch provided)
<TheMuso> RainCT: Considering how big the patch is, and that it touches more than one file, yes I do.
<nxvl_work> slangasek: i will install it on a VM only for testing purposes
<RainCT> TheMuso: ok
<TheMuso> RainCT: When is debian likely to include the patch?
<RainCT> TheMuso: the bug report received no answer yet
<TheMuso> RainCT: How old is the report?
<crimsun> imbrandon: jordan, you, and barry comprise the trinity.
<imbrandon> crimsun: ahhh okies , couldent quite rember :)
<Kmos> RainCT: can you try to finish vips package to upload it.. so nip2 can be synced after that :-))
<RainCT> TheMuso: 08 Nov 2007
<TheMuso> RainCT: Ah ok, so its not that old.
<imbrandon> crimsun: so i guess Laserjock was correct :)
<somerville32> Lutin, Why not do it anyhow?
 * RainCT wonders if it wouldn't be better to just sync and let the patch enter when Debian includes it, as it doesn't seem to be anything really important, TheMuso
<TheMuso> RainCT: Well if you are up to adding the patch system and making sure the patch does apply, I'd say we go ahead, and we add a bug watch for the Debian bug, so we know when we can get it synced.
<RainCT> TheMuso: okay then
<RainCT> Kmos: I've that one pending :). you are not looking at it, or?
<Kmos> RainCT: no.. just waiting for you :p
<Lutin> somerville32: because merging for 'change my email adress' or 'orphaning this package' debian uploads is just pointless ?
<RainCT> Kmos: okay. what was missing there? just checking if new debian version works?
<Lutin> somerville32: or in some case, if the debian upload fixes only a part of the ubuntu changes ... no real point merging either
<Kmos> RainCT: i need version .5 of vips to have nip2 synced.. just waiting you to finish the debdiff
<TheMuso> RainCT: On the other hand, if you are happy to wait for the update in Debian, we'll sync then. However, if its not done in a month or so, I'd say we merge.
<effie_jayx> after one is done building a package with pbuilder .. what does one do next? I install it?
<TheMuso> effie_jayx: Yes, install it in the version of Ubuntu that its meant for. I would then test the fix you have applied to ensure it works.
<effie_jayx> TheMuso,  how can I do this
<effie_jayx> I am running gutsy and the pacage is for hardy
<effie_jayx> package
<effie_jayx> what do I install?
<TheMuso> effie_jayx: You need a hardy chroot of some sort.
<TheMuso> SOme people use pbuilder, but how they do so, I don't know.
<effie_jayx> TheMuso,  the file I use to install... is it a .deb?
<TheMuso> Yes it is.
<effie_jayx> i don't see one in the folder...
<effie_jayx> now I am confused
<effie_jayx> TheMuso,  Thanks
<TheMuso> effie_jayx: THe debs appear in /var/cache/pbuilder/result unless settings have been changed
<RainCT> TheMuso: I've followed this http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ap-pkg-eg.en.html but I get Â«No rule to make target `clean-patched', needed by `clean'Â»
<effie_jayx> ok
<TheMuso> RainCT: You following the dpatch example?
<RainCT> TheMuso: yep
<TheMuso> RainCT: Actually, I would advise just reading the dpatch and dpatch.mk manpages.
<TheMuso> Sorry, just the dpatch manpage.
<TheMuso> ah its dpatch.make
<TheMuso> The dpatch.make manpage gives you info on how to make use of it.
 * RainCT is pbuilding
<imbrandon> hrm /win 21
<effie_jayx> I need to test a package for hardy... I am using gutsy... what can I use...
<jdong> effie_jayx: your pbuilder as a chroot
<jdong> i.e. the login command
<effie_jayx> jdong,  how can I use the .deb file in that environment
<jdong> effie_jayx: you need to set a --bindmounts /some/shared/dir and then that path will be available inside your chroot
<effie_jayx> ok cool
<effie_jayx> let me give it a try
<RainCT> TheMuso: I've replaced the debdiff in bug 172922
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172922 in ebview "Please merge ebview-0.3.6-3.1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172922
<TheMuso> RainCT: Thanks.
<effie_jayx> jdong,  where do they get mounted?
<effie_jayx> same path?
<nxvl_work> RAOF: ping
<effie_jayx> jdong,  nevermind... smane path
<RainCT> good night :)
<RAOF> nxvl_work: Pong?
<nxvl_work> RAOF: did you mind if i merge apt-proxy? or you want to do it?
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> I tested the package
<effie_jayx> what next
<effie_jayx> make debdiff and upload
<RAOF> Let's try that one again.  nxvl_work: pong?
<somerville32> [19:40] <nxvl_work> RAOF: did you mind if i merge apt-proxy? or you want to do it?
<effie_jayx> I just attaeched the debdiff
<effie_jayx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New]
<effie_jayx> I know I have to assign the bug to someone...
<effie_jayx> but who?
<somerville32> No, don 't assign
<somerville32> Is ghc6 a universe package?
<somerville32> If so, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: at your left it is a menu entry "suscribe someone else" get in there and suscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: then assign the bug to no one and change status to confirmed
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work,  should I change importance?
<effie_jayx> it sas wishlist
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: you can't
<effie_jayx> ok
<nxvl_work> and you don't need to change it, just leave it the way it is
#ubuntu-motu 2007-11-30
<RAOF> somerville32: Thanks.
<RAOF> nxvl_work: You're welcome to merge apt-proxy if you like.
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: i'm looking at you patch, did you make the changes outside of debian/
<nxvl_work> RAOF: thnx
<RAOF> nxvl_work: Just be careful of the bashism in Debian & dashism in Ubuntu :)
<nxvl_work> RAOF: but i haven't notice that it was already merged :(
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work,  no
<effie_jayx> that I remember
<effie_jayx> the manpage was in debian/
<nxvl_work> oh right i haven't look well :)
<effie_jayx> but it is renamed to runghc.man and when the other are generated, it gets changed to a .1
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: did you build it and install it?
<effie_jayx> yes
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: and the man page it's installed correctly?
<effie_jayx> yes
<effie_jayx> I had to install man in my pbuilder to test it
<nxvl_work> so don't mind if the name is changed
<nxvl_work> heh, yes, thats the PITA of pbuilder, but i love it
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work,  it's cool...
<effie_jayx> does it look ok'
<effie_jayx> that bug was tricky
<effie_jayx> the packaging of the manpages is done through a script that made it more difficult for me ... I couldn't see the manpages it had...
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: they are all tricky when you start
<nxvl_work> i still find some bugs tricky
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work, well .. I did my best
<effie_jayx> and I think this is the first time I go all the way with a bug
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: yes, we need to do our best, and if isn't enough to solve the bugs ask for help :D
<nxvl_work> there are somethings i already do mechanically
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work,  thoughts on the bug... you think I did ok?
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: well i only take a...
<nxvl_work> "mirada rapida"
<nxvl_work> and it seems fine
<nxvl_work> quick look*
<nxvl_work> oh yes
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: you need to add (LP: #95985) to the changelog
<nxvl_work> also you have changed debian/rules, and it isn't shown on your changelog entry
<crimsun> hum.
<effie_jayx> ahhhmmm
<effie_jayx> :(
<crimsun> there's no license associated with debian/runghc.man.  Is that intentional?
<effie_jayx> no
<crimsun> (i.e., normally one says that the man page is redistributable under the terms of Foo)
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  sure... but hte manpage for ghc didn't mention anything :S
<crimsun> effie_jayx: I thought you made debian/runghc.man.
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  but that's for runghc...
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: i make a comment on LP with the 2 suggestions i have just made
<crimsun> effie_jayx: yes, and that's what I've been referring to...
<effie_jayx> there is a manpage for ghc
<effie_jayx> and I tried to follow the same pattern
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  would you suggest a licence?
<somerville32> effie_jayx, You need a copyright notice.
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: change this 2 thinks, the sponsors won't accept your patch until you fix them
<effie_jayx> ok
<crimsun> effie_jayx: for debian/runghc.man?  I generally choose GPL v2 or later for man pages installed into Debian{,-derived} systems.
<effie_jayx> nxvl_work,  I'll have a look at those ...
<effie_jayx> and fix them
<nxvl_work> effie_jayx: NICE!
<crimsun> tehe, jordi just flooded pkg-alsa-devel with several hundred queued e-mails
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  where could I see and example of a copyright notice in a man page?
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
<nxvl_work> heh
<crimsun> effie_jayx: e.g., update-alternatives(8)
<effie_jayx> crimsun,  This   manual   page   was   written   by    Efrain    Valles    Pulgar
<effie_jayx>        <effie.jayx@gmail.com>. This is free documentation; see the GNU General
<effie_jayx>        Public Licence version 2 or later for copying conditions. There  is  NO WARRANTY. ... does that make sence?
<effie_jayx> ugh... sorry
<effie_jayx> should have pastbined
<crimsun> effie_jayx: sure, if you wish to use the GPL v2 or later.
<effie_jayx> it's ok
<effie_jayx> then I am going again
<effie_jayx> changes made
<effie_jayx> I have to package and test again?
<effie_jayx> that's a yes I guess..
<crimsun> yes, regenerate the source package.
<effie_jayx> ok that's take a while ;)
<effie_jayx> I have done the source package
<effie_jayx> and donde the debdiff
<effie_jayx> but I need to test it?
 * effie_jayx is already building the package for a test on a chroot env
<persia> effie_jayx: It's always best to test, as it saves having to do it again after you've forgotten the details when your sponsor tests, or worse needing to make  new upload to fix the mistake when a user tests :)
<Ubulette> hi
<Ubulette> persia, could you spare some time for prism ?
<persia> Ubulette: Not soon :(  You'll get a better package if you get reviews from lots of different people anyway.
<Ubulette> i'm sure of that but I've asked 3 or 4 times here, no one answered
<Ubulette> oh, RAOF had a quick look but that's about it
<persia> Ubulette: Did you ask on a Monday?  Sometimes people wait for REVU day to do reviews.
<Ubulette> i can easily have several reviews from the mozilla team but i wanted something external
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> It'll take two hours or so
<Ubulette> well, it's not really encouraging. i've tried my best to follow the motu process to integrate my new package.
<persia> Ubulette: From a quick look, it's fairly good, although I'm not sure of the value of shipping MPL in debian/ and in the orig.tar.gz, except perhaps to help with building the orig.tar.gz.  One reason it might be taking a while is that people need to really test at this point, rather than just complaining about packaging issues.
<persia> Ubulette: You've been following the process wonderfully.  It's just that it often takes a while to get things in, even when they are perfect, as there's not a lot of active reviewers.
<Ubulette> what else could I do ? prism will gain more exposure only once it is in. so far, my limited set of users seems happy but now, what ? wait or give up ?
<RAOF> Ugh, what happened to font rendering in FF-3?
<RAOF> Ubulette: I'll have a more thorough look now.
<persia> Ubulette: I'd recommend waiting.  The review queue is down to about two weeks (it was around 2 months a week back), so even FIFO processing will catch you soon enough.
<Ubulette> RAOF: which ff3 ? b1 in hardy or my newer packages ?
<RAOF> B1 in hardy.
<RAOF> Has someone turned off the "build against libcairo-awesome" or something?
<RAOF> Oh dear.  I appear to be capped.  Hello, 13kb/s!
<RAOF> Ubulette: Oh, on my last run through of prism I noticed that new-orig-source seems to be doing what get-orig-source should do (at least on my reading of policy).
<Ubulette> RAOF, ff3 is not using system cairo as mozilla is far ahead
<RAOF> On the other hand, your g-o-s rule is obviously useful, and my reading of policy may not coincide with anyone else's.
<RAOF> Urgh.
<RAOF> Dear upstreams: no matter how cool the new, unreleased library is, it's not worth shipping it in your source tree.  kthxbye.
<persia> g-o-s should get the current orig.tar.gz, and other rules to help with updates are nice, but not required.
<Ubulette> RAOF, i've tried but hardy has 1.4.10 while mozilla ships 1.5.2
<RAOF> persia: Ok.  Maybe I'm reading the "most current" in debian policy differently.
<RAOF> s/maybe/obviously/.
 * persia looks at policy again
<Ubulette> RAOF, get-o-s is supposed to fetch the tarball usefull to build the package, while new-s-o is supposed to fetch the newest possible tarball for the packager to prepare a newer version.
<persia> RAOF: No, you're correct, and I'm mistaken, based on an old justification for get-orig-source.  I don't like the policy, but it seems it was too much trouble to try to reconstruct the preferred tarball.
<Ubulette> at least, that's how I do things. maybe not what the book says
<RAOF> Ubulette: Yeah, I understand what you intend them to do, and they're both useful.  I've just been reading policy to mean g-o-s should get the most recent source, not the one used to build teh package.
 * persia apologieses for Ubulette for having previously provided incorrect advice
<RAOF> Easy enough to fix.  Rename g-o-s to get-pkg-source, and n-o-s to g-o-s.
<persia> RAOF: That's what policy says.  Do you think it's useful (assuming we're not enforcing a policy of having the very latest source)?
<Ubulette> both of my rules are getting svn stuff. I assume the policy is about released tarballs
<RAOF> persia: It'd really be nice to have two targets, really.  g-o-s as you understood it is probably more useful than a strict reading of policy.
<RAOF> Ubulette: Do you know how soon FF3 is planned to be released?
<persia> RAOF: I completely agree.  On the other hand, I'm not very familiar with how we might get something useful without breaking all of the Debian syncs.  I'm especially concerned for VCS pulls, as what g-o-s grabs may not even work when following policy.
<slangasek> why would you want a target to grab the *current* source, when that's already part of the source package at hand?
<RAOF> slangasek: Because you have just the debian/ directory in VCS?  Because you repackage the upstream tarball?
<RAOF> Because upstream never releases, so you're packaging a VCS snapshot?
<persia> slangasek: 1) maybe you don't trust the packager, and want to reconstruct (paranoid user scenario), 2) maybe it would be nice to just pass a diff in order to reconstruct a package (easy reviewing scenario), 3) maybe it would simplify debian/ in VCS workflows (no need to VCS the orig.tar.gz scenario)
<slangasek> RAOF: those are all good reasons to have a target that lets you grab the *new* version for packaging
<slangasek> RAOF: but it's simply not true that the get-orig-source target in policy is expected to recreate the current tarball
<RAOF> slangasek: I don't disagree with that.
<persia> slangasek: A target to grab *new* is also nice, but that's for packaging convenience, and is unlikely to have direct user impact.  On the other hand, having an orig.tar.gz whose md5sum doesn't match the upstream distribution point is annoying, and providing a way for users to verify is useful.
<Ubulette> RAOF, FF3, not sure anyone knows. when it's ready ;) b2pre is moving quite fast, full gnome integration with theme and all, better memory handling, etc.
<RAOF> Ubulette: Because they're building against their own internal copy of a development snapshot of cairo which seems unlikely to be released before FF3.  This seems like a really awkward situation.
<slangasek> persia: packaging convenience is a far more realistic use case than random end-users verifying source packages; and repacking an upstream tarball doesn't guarantee that you'll get the same md5sum as the maintainer anyway
<slangasek> s/verifying source packages/& at that level/
<persia> slangasek: I don't care if I get the same md5sum, I care that I only need to read the diff.gz to see the distribution-specific changes.
<Ubulette> RAOF, I know but mozilla is working closely with cairo devs to optimize it far more than what it is now.
<persia> slangasek: Further, I agree completely with your reading of policy: I just want the other as well.
<Ubulette> RAOF, I assume your comment is about the freetype patch
<slangasek> persia: that's not an end-user operation anymore, then...
<persia> slangasek: I was doing that fairly regularly long before I actually sent any email to a debian ML, but perhaps it's just me.
<slangasek> or at least, you would still have to verify without the help of md5sum that the two tarballs match if that's what you care about
<RAOF> Ubulette: No, my comment is about having to ship FF3 with a development snapshot of cairo.  The font rendering being crap is but one downside of this :)
<Ubulette> slangasek, with repacking, you're absolutely sure you'll get a different md5 checksum ;)
<persia> slangasek: Well, if I can see a short script to construct it, and run the script, and it works, I don't usually need to go further, as long as the script downloads from a known good source.
<slangasek> Ubulette: I mean that two runs of get-orig-source (one generating the tarball in the archive, one on the user's local machine) are not guaranteed to give the same results, even given the same source tarball
<slangasek> s/same results/same md5sum/
<persia> This is absolutely true, for any g-o-s that goes beyond calling uscan for a verified upstream tar.gz
<slangasek> persia: considering how few upstreams sign their tarballs, I think this is more useful for verifying whether upstream is a good source anyway... :)
<Ubulette> in prism, with g-o-s, you'll get the same files (diff -r will show no difference) but not the same md5 as tar includes the time stamps which are always local, ie different
<persia> slangasek: Right: it just means that my grand plan for streamlining sponsoring needs some rework :(
<persia> Ubulette: That's normal.
<Ubulette> persia, I know. I'm not a noob in unix
 * persia apologies for the perceived slight
<StevenK> widgets/.libs/libmodest-widgets.a(modest-mozembed-msg-view.o): In function `set_message':
<StevenK> /modest-1.0/src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp:673: undefined reference to `modest_tny_msg_find_body_part(_TnyMsg*, int)'
 * StevenK looks confused.
<slangasek> StevenK: ld has lost a body part, you see
<StevenK> I see that.
<StevenK> I just can't figure out where it lost it.
<StevenK> Linking it not exactly my strong point.
<StevenK> s/it /is /
<slangasek> how about grepping? >:)
<StevenK> The header that defines that function is one level down, and ../.libs is empty
<Ubulette> persia, no offense taken ;)
<slangasek> the function is defined in a header?
<Ubulette> RAOF: define crap. are you talking about subpixel rendering improved by the turner's patch ?
<Ubulette> bug 164640
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 164640 in firefox-3.0 "Apply subpixel rendering patch to cairo" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164640
<RAOF> Ubulette: Crap, as in looks much worse than epiphany or FF2.  Possibly related to subpixel rendering, but it also seems to be using a different DPI calculation.
<RAOF> I can provide screenshots if you're interested.  I know that "crap" isn't a particularly useful bug description.
<Ubulette> well, try setting dpi to 0 in about:config (should be -1 by default)
<Ubulette> some X drivers are buggy so 0 is not good, then a positive value is needed, like 82 or 84
<RAOF> And restart FF?
<Ubulette> no need
<RAOF> Ah, well.
<sommer> screen -r
<sommer> woops
<bddebian> Heya gang
<RAOF> Heh.  Nouveau is a lot less buggy than I thought.  It's xcompmgr :)
<RAOF> Ubulette: Well, that didn't appear to do anything at all.
<Ubulette> layout.css.dpi ?
<RAOF> Was -1, is now 0
<Ubulette> try 82, 84 or anything positive matching your preference for the size
 * persia suggests using the number that actually matches your hardware
<RAOF> Nope.
<Ubulette> strange, works for everyone else
<RAOF> Ah, it works for some text but not all.
<RAOF> Particularly, it does'nt change the review text on revu at all.
<RAOF> And that's what's looking particularly ugly at the moment.
<persia> Maybe it's an issue with "monospace"?
<RAOF> Maybe.
 * RAOF fiddles with font settings
 * RAOF gets bored & gives up.
<Ubulette> the focus is currently on better gnome integration, so it's time to report things like that
<Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/ff3b2pre-gnome.png <= b2pre with default ff3 theme and default ubuntu gnome theme
<Ubulette> http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/theme-after.png <= default ff3 theme but another gnome theme
<Ubulette> (2nd window is nautilus)
<RAOF> Ah, so xul is becoming less obnoxious.  Yay.
<Ubulette> !info libgnome-desktop-dev hardy
<ubotu> libgnome-desktop-dev: Utility library for loading .desktop files - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.21.2-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 59 kB, installed size 452 kB
<Ubulette> damn, hardy is late :(
<btrigg> Hi There.  I'm on the Colorado LoCo and we have been discussing a user-friendly and educational way to confront this issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?a=54
<btrigg> An idea we had was a sort of "sudo tutorial": A graphical tutorial on fresh-installs that pops up and details the power and danger of running commands as root prior to allowing any root commands to be run.
<btrigg> Would this be the right place to find a champion for this idea?
<somerville32> btrigg, See #ubuntu-doc
<btrigg> somerville32: Thanks much.
<DarkMageZ> Ubulette, is sofaraway.org/ubuntu/ yours? the firefox-minefield packages have a dependency on pango 1.19 even tho 1.18 is in the repos.
 * StevenK kicks his lack of linking knowledge
 * persia dreams of a whitespace-aware diff
<StevenK> I'm trying to figure out how to fix an undefined references
<somerville32> StevenK, in what?
<persia> StevenK: Are the symbols available in the objects that you've -l'd into ld/gcc?
<StevenK> persia: It's a little more stranger than that, since the symbol is in the program itself, not a library
<Ubulette> DarkMageZ: indeed, it's mine. strange, i'm not building pango in there. btw, i'm moving my bot from gutsy to hardy so some packages are broken (yet, the whole firefox-minefield mini dist should be ok)
<persia> StevenK: In the same source file that is under compilation?
<StevenK> persia: Not the same source file, but the same tree
<RAOF> StevenK: It's not some strange template instantiation issue?
<persia> OK.  Are you linking the patch where that object file resides when you compile the target?  Separately, are you also explicitly including the header for that reference in the source that references it?
<DarkMageZ> Ubulette, yeah. i thought it a little odd that gutsy packages were depending on a version of pango that wasn't in either ubuntu or it's oown repository.
<StevenK> RAOF: I don't think so
<persia> s/patch/path/
<RAOF> Ah, no.  That error message is far to clear to be a template issue.
<StevenK> /modest-1.0/src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp:673: undefined reference to `modest_tny_msg_find_body_part(_TnyMsg*, int)'
<Ubulette> DarkMageZ, the goal of my repo is to daily package HEAD of everything so it no longer makes sense to use gutsy as a base
<RAOF> So where is that function defined again?
<StevenK> in src/modest-tny-msg.c
<persia> That looks like a parser issue, rather than a linking issue.  Make sure your -I includes the right directories (even in the same source tree), and that you've explicitly included a header defining that in modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp
<persia> StevenK: Is there a inc/modest-tny-msg.h or src/modest-tny-msg.h?
<StevenK> persia: Yup. And it's included in src/widgets/modest-mozembed-msg-view.cpp
<RAOF> StevenK: This is the same error as before, right?  The one that starts with "widgets/.libs/libmodest-widgets.a(modest-mozembed-msg-view.o): In function `set_message':
<StevenK> RAOF: Right
<persia> StevenK: And your gcc call has "-I." ?
<StevenK> persia: I'm just checking that
<persia> Err.  "-I widgets/"
<StevenK> It does not
<persia> Err.  I suck!  "-I ./widgets/"
<persia> StevenK: In that case, the #include directive probably can't find it.
<RAOF> But then it would error out on the compiling phase, right?
<StevenK> persia: But this thing is autoconf'd and automake'd, shouldn't it just deal?
 * persia is confused: is this *not* a build-time error?
<persia> StevenK: It should, but it wouldn't be magic if it was easy to understand :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> I thought it was a link-time error?
<RAOF> persia: It's already built libmodest-widgets.a, and the linker's complaining about an undefined reference in that archive.
<persia> If it's link-time, then the problem isn't -I, but -L
<persia> (alternately, if it's trying to link into a .a file, perhaps there's some funny naming redirect, but that's unlikely)
<StevenK> There's only one -L, and it's xul stuff
<RAOF> Where does modest-tiny-msg.c end up being built into?
<RAOF> (This should be findable in the Makefile.am)
<persia> I think you usually get "-L ." by default, but likely not "-L ./widgets/" (and Makefile.am should do it right, but might need a hint)
<StevenK> RAOF: It ends up modest_SOURCES
<persia> Is that the src/ directory in which you are linking?
<StevenK> Yup
<persia> Just to confirm, the generated object does contain the correct reference mid-build, right?
<StevenK> 0# strings src/modest-tny-msg.o  | grep body_part
<StevenK> modest_tny_msg_find_body_part
<StevenK> So, yes. :-)
<persia> Hmm...  You might try a manual link with -L./src/ (or just '.' depending on where you run it), but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to get that by default.
<RAOF> Maybe some pastebinning of Makefile.am might be useful?
<StevenK> RAOF: src/ or src/widgets ?
<StevenK> RAOF: I can put my sources up, if you want?
<RAOF> Eh, why not.
<RAOF> I'll just do a bit of an update-reboot, and be back shortly.
 * StevenK stares at git.
<somerville32> ROAF: Didn't you say you were going to let me have access to your server to build on?
<RAOF> somerville32: Yup.
<RAOF> Still want it?
<RAOF> It'll be a bit slower for a couple of days, until I get uncapped again.
<StevenK> RAOF: If you want to build it, you also need libtinymail, I can give you source or binaries of it too?
<RAOF> Either should be fine.
<RAOF> Whatever's easiest.
<RAOF> But it's not in the archives yet?
<StevenK> This particular version isn't, just in case I need to fiddle it to get modest happy
<StevenK> RAOF: amd64 or i386? Since amd64 is built
<somerville32> RAOF, yes sir
<RAOF> somerville32: LP id?
<somerville32> RAOF, cody-somerville
<RAOF> somerville32: Right.  You should be able to login to cody-somerville@cooperteam.net now, and use sbuild.
<StevenK> Ugh. TPG. :-P
<RAOF> Eh, I haven't had (many) problems.
<somerville32> woot woot
<somerville32> TPG?
<StevenK> somerville32: An Australian ISP with a (deserved) reputation
<RAOF> I couldn't find anyone else with spare ADSL2+ sockets in my area at the time.
<StevenK> RAOF: So, are you building for amd64 or i386?
<RAOF> StevenK: amd64 by default.  I think I've got an i386 builder lying around.
<StevenK> RAOF: Well, I'm building for amd64, too, so that makes it simple.
<RAOF> Yay!
<StevenK> RAOF: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/modest/
<StevenK> RAOF: I can run apt-ftparchve in that directory if that makes it simpler
<RAOF> There aren't really that many deps, right?
<RAOF> And dget is almost as simple as apt-get source
<StevenK> RAOF: What's in that directory is the source of the modest and amd64 debs for everything else
<StevenK> s/the //
<RAOF> Is there any particular reason not to use the libtinymail in the archives?
<StevenK> RAOF: Yup. That libtinymail is built against xulrunner-1.9, and the one in the archive is built with firefox-dev -- modest requires xulrunner-1.9 and gets upset if libtinymail isn't using what it needs.
<RAOF> K.
<RAOF> Eh, run an apt-ftparchive over it then, please :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Done.
<RAOF> Ta.
<RAOF> Let the scratch schrooting begin.
<RAOF> ...at the blistering speed of 15kb/s :(
<StevenK> Yeah, well, it is using my upstream
<StevenK> I suspect the dput I just started isn't helping. :-)
<RAOF> No, that's my downstream.  I'm updating my chroot first.
<StevenK> Ah
 * StevenK hugs his local mirror
 * RAOF should buy one of these new-fangled 1TB drives and get him a mirror.
 * Fujitsu mounr nhis local mirror.
<Fujitsu> Bahh, lag.
<Fujitsu> *mourns his
<StevenK> Fujitsu: What about it?
<Fujitsu> It got eaten by a buggy Gutsy debmirror last week.
<RAOF> Presumably it's messy & untimely death.
<StevenK> Oh.
<StevenK> This is why my mirror runs Dapper.
<imbrandon> apt-mirror ftw :)
<StevenK> Anyway, I think debmirror is crap, and I need to write something better.
<imbrandon> infact i need to request some backports for it
<Fujitsu> StevenK: So did mine. And the fix got pushed to -updates within 72 hours.
<imbrandon> StevenK: help improve apt-mirror then, or join me and Fujitsu in planning/coding apt-mirror-ng ( pythonized )
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> debmiror is really inflexible.
<Fujitsu> +r
<StevenK> imbrandon: Can I get apt-mirror to download i386, amd64 and lpia for gutsy,gutsy-updates,gutsy-security,hardy and installer-i386,installer-amd64 for gutsy,hardy in one easy command?
<RAOF> Thank you, irssi, for preventing me from pasting 22 lines of crap.
<imbrandon> StevenK: yup
<Fujitsu> StevenK: that was my main problem.
<imbrandon> StevenK: actualy you can :)
<StevenK> Is it written in Perl?
<Fujitsu> Thankyou, 'softies, for downloading a coupl of service packs and making my connection very laggy.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Yes, it's one 500 line file.
<Fujitsu> It's very ugly.
<imbrandon> yes, unfortunately
<StevenK> imbrandon--
<imbrandon> i wanna redo it in python someday :)
<imbrandon> but atm its perl in all its glory
 * Fujitsu decrements StevenK.
<imbrandon> one perl file ( ~500 lines of code ) and one config ( /etc/apt/mirror.list )
<StevenK> Actually, no, it also needs to pull amd64 and i386 from one place and lpia from another. :-)
<somerville32> RAOF, it is slow :]
<imbrandon> yea thats doable
<imbrandon> StevenK: it takes sources.list lines only modified like deb-i386 deb-lpia etc
 * TheMuso returns.
<imbrandon> so its totaly doable
<somerville32> RAOF, Can you install stuff like, you know... dh-make? :P
<RAOF> somerville32: done.
<StevenK> imbrandon: Can you pastebin a conffile?
<RAOF> somerville32: Anything else?  I usually use that box as just a buildd, so it probably doesn't have much in the way of development utils.
<imbrandon> StevenK: yea one sec
 * TheMuso wonders how long he will be online before the storm decides to knock out power.
 * RAOF should move to the mountains.  He always misses out on the cool storms.
<StevenK> Heh
<TheMuso> Heh.
<imbrandon> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2372/
<imbrandon> StevenK: with a config like that you litterly just run "10 * * * * apt-mirror apt-mirror" in a cron
<StevenK> Mmm
<imbrandon> ( after initial sync ofcourse )
<imbrandon> and optionaly the clean.sh it generates ( cleaning removed packages )
<StevenK> RAOF: Still poking at modest with a stick?
<imbrandon> StevenK: it supports these arches .... ( more could be added trivialy )
<imbrandon> if($config_line =~ /deb-(alpha|amd64|armel|arm|hppa|hurd-i386|i386|ia64|m68k|mipsel|mips|powerpc|s390|sh|sparc)/) {
<RAOF> StevenK: Still updating my chroot with a straw.
<imbrandon> StevenK: e.g. lpia :)
<RAOF> StevenK: 14.8kB/s 18m13s
<StevenK> RAOF: Heh, fair enough. It seems my local mirror has spoilt me
<imbrandon> ohhh i'm in love, anyone ever messed with a picotux ?
<imbrandon> http://www.picotux.com
<RAOF> Ah, one of *those* things.
 * RAOF plays around with confusing awn into believing that unminimizing a window creates a new task
<StevenK> RAOF: Surely the chroot is up to date now? :-)
<RAOF> Yes, indeed.
<StevenK> RAOF: No news is good news?
<RAOF> There's a downside to using a disposable chroot.
<StevenK> Oh? It all went?
<RAOF> It's that there's a lot of deps that need to be downloaded before anything interesting happens.
<StevenK> I'll put it down to local mirror love again. :-)
 * RAOF looks at prices for hard drives.
<StevenK> RAOF: You don't have a spare 60G?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: btw, you going to slug tonight?
<RAOF> Not really.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: No.  Still sick.
<Hobbsee> :(
<RAOF> I presume no one at slug is going to be particularly interested in contracting week long evil cough.
<RAOF> With bonus bilateral middle ear infection!
<StevenK> RAOF: Ugh
 * StevenK tries to debug hildon input method some more
<RAOF> Hm.  I totally have 60Gb free.
<RAOF> apt-mirror, you say? :)
<StevenK> I use debmirror, but want to replace it.
<StevenK> RAOF: /dev/mapper/system-mirror 60G   45G   15G  76% /srv/mirror
<StevenK> RAOF: That's gutsy{,-{security,updates}},hardy amd64 and i386
<RAOF> Binary only?
 * RAOF starts working the LVM foo.
<StevenK> RAOF: Right.
<StevenK> RAOF: It took me about four days to seed my mirror, given I only want to pull down during my uncounted period.
<RAOF> It'll take me somewhat longer :)
<RAOF> However, this is not going to be terribly useful while I'm capped.
<StevenK> RAOF: But you're ADSL2+, and I'm only 1.5 ....
 * StevenK needs to figure out how to get 30Gb down to his mother in law's place so he can upgrade his sister in laws machine to Gutsy
<StevenK> If only Ethernet wasn't limited to 100m
<StevenK> (And there wasn't a main road to cross)
<RAOF> Get yourself some gigibit :P
<StevenK> My switch is gigabit rated :-)
<RAOF> Cars will barely notice the twisted pair.
<StevenK> RAOF: Yes, but other people might
<Hobbsee> bring SIL's machine to your house?
<RAOF> Paint it red & white striped, or something.
<StevenK> RAOF: I wonder if it would have been faster to give you an account on my machine.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: I've been pondering that
<RAOF> StevenK: Survey says: yes.  It may still be faster to do so.
<Burgundavia> ahh, yes, the end of the earth, where bandwidth sucks
<StevenK> RAOF: Okay, running adduser
<persia> Nah.  Austalia's way better than New Zealand, which is itself better than Fiji
<persia> r
<RAOF> My bandwidth is fine until I download the 50Gb or whatever it is that my cap is.
<RAOF> After that... not so good.
<Burgundavia> what is this "cap" you speak of?
<persia> RAOF: Is it a cap on the local pipe, or a cap on international traffic?
<RAOF> persia: Local pipe.
<RAOF> Down to a swanky 128kbit/sec.
<persia> RAOF: Ah, so even a faster / better / cleaner mirror in AU wouldn't help :(
<DarkMageZ> Burgundavia, isp's over here allocate you X amount of traffic a month. once you hit the cap. all sorts of things can happen depending on the agreement.
<persia> DarkMageZ: I'm sure I've encountered unlimited domestic plans before (with an international cap)
<RAOF> If you're on a Telstra plan, for example, you can then pay an additional 2 cents / MB bywnloaded.
<StevenK> It isn't 2 cents, it's more like 18
<superm1> Amaranth, did you ever have any luck with the touch?
<StevenK> Which works out to be roughly $250 per GB
<persia> Per Megabyte?  That's madness!
<Amaranth> superm1: no
<StevenK> persia: Yup, per megabyte
<superm1> that's unfortunate
<Fujitsu> persia: That's Australia.
<Amaranth> superm1: i'm sending the _exact_ same thing iTunes does and getting no response
<Amaranth> superm1: so i'm stumped
<DarkMageZ> persia, it's not madness. it's telstra. an extremist form of madness.
<StevenK> Meanwhile, my ISP charges $3/GB
<Fujitsu> Yay, now-private monopolies..
<StevenK> (Excess usage)
<RAOF> My last ISP charged $2/GB
<superm1> Amaranth, perhaps considering its a handshake, you need to be responding differently depending on the data you see
<persia> Fujitsu: I disagree: not everything in Australia is backwards & upside-down
<Amaranth> superm1: no no, i mean at the very beginning
<superm1> Amaranth, have you compared two transmissions to see if they are always identical between iTunes and the touch
<Amaranth> superm1: i can't get the touch to talk to me _at all_
<Amaranth> no, i also can't use the touch in vmware (vmware bug) so i only have the one dump
<Amaranth> but this is the first command you send to the phone
<Amaranth> before you setup any kind of handshake or anything else
<Amaranth> just saying 'hello' and getting a response
<superm1> Amaranth, well what you are forgetting is that there may be some communication with the driver
<superm1> in the OS
<superm1> before iTunes says hello
<Amaranth> afaik they don't have a driver for it, just a dll
<superm1> really.
<superm1> hm
<superm1> they do have a service running though
<superm1> that may handle that portion yet too
<Amaranth> yeah but a kernel-level usb sniffer should see anything they do
<superm1> yea
<Amaranth> i did get some 'magic' command from an iphone kernel module (to make it charge) that made the whole thing at least not error out
<Amaranth> but i get 0 bytes when i try to read
<superm1> well then this is all rather perplexing as you describe it
<Amaranth> yes
<Amaranth> there is some header on the first bit of xml sent (and on every bit of xml sent)
<superm1> dependent on what happens with that handshake this header?
<Amaranth> i think it might be a checksum of some sort
<superm1> including the first hello?
<Amaranth> no no, they use SSL to hide stuff, you can see that later on
<superm1> that checksum?
<Amaranth> but yeah, the first XML bit has it
<superm1> too bad you only have one transmission to look at
<superm1> to see if its the same each time
<Amaranth> will be able to get more tomorrow
<superm1> cool ok
<Amaranth> and with me guiding the thing instead of someone doing 'something' and then sending it to me
<Amaranth> and with better tools, this one outputs some HTML crap
<superm1> Amaranth, i'm not even familiar with any tools for these tasks whatsoever
<Amaranth> i've got a couple
<superm1> Amaranth, are similar tools available for mac os?
<Amaranth> and if vmware fixes their bug i'll be able to see even more
<superm1> Amaranth, i'll be able to hook up to my friends to do some stuff there possibly
<Amaranth> no, there is only a tool to sniff _all_ USB traffic, then you have to figure out what is what later
<superm1> ick
<LaserJock> evening folks
<Fujitsu> Evening, LaserJock.
<LaserJock> oh, poor somerville32
<LaserJock> :-)
 * somerville32 moans.
<LaserJock> I feel for you man
<StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
 * RAOF feels for StevenK's ponies.  They must get awfully skittish.
<StevenK> Ha
 * somerville32 slowly and sadly writes an e-mail to elmo
<nxvl> ScottK: around?
<LaserJock> somerville32: I had to write one of those once
<somerville32> LaserJock, really? Did elmo kill you? :P
<LaserJock> to the Uni IT head
<somerville32> Oh
<LaserJock> not to elmo
<somerville32> Who do you think would be easier? IT Head or Elmo?
<LaserJock> after my uni computer was pinging https ports on 300k computers
<LaserJock> somerville32: oh, IT Head for sure
<LaserJock> elmo will eat a person alive
<LaserJock> ;-)
<somerville32> My career is so over :(
<somerville32> lol
<superm1> somerville32, why slowly and sadly?
<somerville32> superm1, because I'd rather not to disclose the situation to elmo :P
<superm1> what situation?
<somerville32> Erm, lets not discuss this further
 * somerville32 shuts his mouth to prevent further embarrassment 
<somerville32> LaserJock, You should send me a cheese platter or something :P This is going to be rough.
<LaserJock> somerville32: oh, it's not that bad dude, you just gotta deal with it which is no fun
 * StevenK tells LaserJock to read #ubuntu-devel logs
<LaserJock> me? I already read them
<somerville32> StevenK, Do you think it is _that_ bad?
<StevenK> Yes.
<superm1> is there a time frame from the logs to be looking at?
<somerville32> superm1, My private keys have been compromised, thats the story
<superm1> oh that's horrible
<superm1> so sorry to hear that
 * somerville32 cries.
<StevenK> superm1: From 15:04 local time, it's currently 14:26
<StevenK> So, an hour and a half ago
 * superm1 sees
<LaserJock> do ssh keys have a revocation?
<somerville32> LaserJock, I just need to get them to change the key
<ajmitch> 'just'
<LaserJock> ajmitch: that's not too hard is it?
<somerville32> Now everyone knows and now I'm horribly embarrassed :(
<somerville32> It wasn't like criminals got a hold of it or anything
<ajmitch> depends on what access he had to servers
<LaserJock> yeah
<ajmitch> it's more a matter of trust than of difficulty
<somerville32> I didn't know better! : (
<StevenK> That's no excuse
<RAOF> Well, it's a bit of an excuse.  It just doesn't help very much.
<ajmitch> to get access restored, you may need a signed email, signed by a new, trusted gpg key
<somerville32> Well, I know better now
<StevenK> That someone else has signed.
<ajmitch> so getting signatures on that new gpg key, so that the ssh key can be trusted
<somerville32> So you guys won't sponsor my uploads until then?
<StevenK> Personally, I won't.
<somerville32> Even though I haven't used gpg key for ages?
<StevenK> What the other people do is up to them.
<somerville32> *that
<somerville32> The key I have been using is secure
<somerville32> The GPG key was old and I haven't used it for awhile. The issue, really, is the ssh-keys
 * persia doesn't trust anyone's signature anyway, so might sponsor something if the work could be fully reconstructed.
<StevenK> persia: Because you've not met anyone?
<persia> StevenK: No, because I don't like to sponsor based on the person doing the work, but only on the work itself.
<persia> Everyone makes mistakes, so it's better to review than trust them because they are a good person.
<persia> If one is reviewing the work anyway, the signature no longer matters.
<StevenK> RAOF: That rain has just hit here, so you might get it after all
<RAOF> StevenK: Yay!
 * Fujitsu laments the lack of rain.
<StevenK> Hah. It's Melbourne, it probably stopped raining about five minutes ago.
<Fujitsu> Hah, no.
<imbrandon> hrm , can you use if/else in a rules file ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: ECONTEXT
<imbrandon> like if i wanna set a var in debian rules like ummm dist=(shell lsb_release -si) , but i need to use a if statement to set that to a default if its blank
<persia> imbrandon: Yes, but you want to use make-style conditionals, rather than shell-style conditionals.
<imbrandon> %if  %else %fi ?
<persia> imbrandon: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html#Conditionals, but there's a special shortcut for handling default variable values.  I'm looking now.
<imbrandon> k
<persia> Right: "FOO ?= bar" sets the default if $(FOO) is unset, so could be used following the normal FOO definition.
<imbrandon> killer so i could just add dist ?= "somethng"
<imbrandon> on the next line
<imbrandon> ( using that example )
<imbrandon> or rather dist ?= something
<imbrandon> but still
<imbrandon> any ok, one other ( should be simplish ) question while i have a few ears ... how evil is it to, say , ummm
<imbrandon> ok i ship the conf file in debian/my.conf
<imbrandon> if i run sed over that BEFORE i try to install it in etc
<imbrandon> so the debconf will still try to diff if its ... hrm
<imbrandon> or i guess i could try a debian/my.conf.in
<imbrandon> ...
<imbrandon> and use subsitution vars
<imbrandon> this would be the current rules : http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~imbrandon/source/apt-mirror/apt-mirror-0.4.4+debian/debian/rules , i already have it with custom files for debian/ubuntu and that seems to work perfect, but i would also like the ubuntu-mirror.list to be based on the env it was built in
<persia> imbrandon: Depends on whether you're better with set or automake.  Both work.  Do it in "build" rather than in "install".
<imbrandon> e.g edgy for edgy , dapper for dapper etc
<imbrandon> yea i'm doing all this in build, i dont wanna do it at install time
 * persia advocates the use of [\d\.]* in place of .*
<persia> (for versions)
<imbrandon> yea i need to fix that next, the version is 0.4.4 but its reporting 0.4.4-2 from upstream
<imbrandon> thus looks like there is a new version upstream ready but there isnt
<persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  I remember now.  Annoying upstream.  uversionmangle ought to help.
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> ok see how i'm using dist= there and then in the install of the conf from debian/
<persia> Just in case someone decides to change dh_installman behaviour, you might want to run pod2man in build and into debian/apt-mirror.1, and then compress/install with debhelper (doesn't really matter).
<imbrandon> if its Ubuntu i want to run sed over the debian/Ubuntu-mirror.list prior to installation
<persia> Right.  You want to construct debian/${builddist}-mirror.list at build-time?
<imbrandon> well really just subsitute a few varables in it, but basicly yes
<imbrandon> a simple s/hardy/dapper/g debian/Ubuntu-mirror.list would do what i wish
<persia> To make the clean rule act properly, I'd suggest starting with base-mirror.list, and then s/DIST/${builddist}/g to generate your list.
<imbrandon> but i dident know if that was "evil" in any way, as i've not seen others do it
<imbrandon> well the debian and ubuntu ones are totaly diffrent
<persia> (or mirror.list.in)
<imbrandon> i would have to change more than dist
<imbrandon> also mirror url
<imbrandon> and components
<persia> Ah.  Right.  You'd need to have Debian-mirror.list.in and Ubuntu-mirror.list.in and choose the source based on lsb-release data.
<imbrandon> right
<persia> So, you set a variable to be "Debian" or "Ubuntu", and sed s/DIST/${buildrelease}/g $(CURDIR)/debian/${builddist}-mirror.list.in > debian/${buildrelease}-mirror.list
<imbrandon> yea technicly i dont think its an issue
<persia> And then remove debian/${buildrelease}-mirror.list in clean:
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> i currently do almost exactly that
<imbrandon> but ummm i was more talking aobut the sub ubuntu sed, eg the release
 * persia is probably looking at old rules then
<imbrandon> nah your looking at the right one if its from that link
<imbrandon> but i dont think you understand what i mean. i currently do so what you are speaking of, using a var to decide the Debian or Ubuntu and install based on that
<persia> From here, it looks like you've manually constructed all possibilities of ${builddist}-mirror.list, which breaks for a new model.
<imbrandon> right
<imbrandon> exactly
<persia> Anyway, thinking about it, I'm convinced that build-time is not the right time to do it if you want it to work for debian: you should construct your -mirror.list file at install time, else all Debian users will always get "unstable".
<imbrandon> i'm not so much worried about the debian/ubuntu thing , i'm trying to build upon that to also make it release specific now too
<persia> So, in your postinst, you generate the list based on the machine onto which you are installing.
<imbrandon> right but with postinst it will not complain if i try to overite a file in /etc/ , i dont wanna clobber someones already in place config
<imbrandon> correct ?
<persia> imbrandon: Then test for the existence of the file: if it is present, don't clobber.
<LaserJock> can you read it form /var/ or something
<Fujitsu> Ooh, new kernel, in a strange source package.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: ?
<RAOF> Now with shiny new tickless x86-64!
<imbrandon> persia: well dpkg already takes care of it if i use install blah in rules, thus i would like to do it at build time, so the end user has the choice of seeing a "diff" produced by dpkg
<persia> imbrandon: Right, but if you do it at build time, you guarantee that it breaks for all Debian users, as it always generates "unstable".
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: The source package now seems to be `linux'.
<persia> That's actually a pretty good name: matches upstream :)
<imbrandon> yea but the migration from unstable to testing to stable, i forget its only built once
<imbrandon> hrm
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, it makes more sense.
<imbrandon> i wish i knew of another package that did something similar ...
<imbrandon> hrm
<StevenK> Heh, and FTBFS everywhere but i386 and amd64
<imbrandon> *thinks*
<persia> I'm also happy to see .24.  Up until now I was under the impression we might have .23.
<StevenK>  LD [M]  net/tipc/tipc.o
<StevenK> make[2]: *** [sub-make] Error 2
<StevenK> make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
<Fujitsu> persia: It was decided during UDS that it would be .24.
<StevenK> Okay then
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Riight.
<Fujitsu> Looks special.
<persia> Fujitsu: I guess I only saw half that conversation then: I remember fears that .24 wouldn't be entirely stable.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: 2.6.24 is in rc now afaik
<imbrandon> ok so am i correct in saying if i do it in postinstall i'll have to manualy check for prior existance and "do the right thing"
<TheMuso> s/fujitsu/persia
<persia> TheMuso: Yep.
<imbrandon> or is there a way to use the rules "install" method there also
<persia> imbrandon: Yes, and I think you can't have it be a conffile, as you won't know the md5sum in advance.
<imbrandon> cruft, ok
<StevenK> TheMuso: No SLUG tonight?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea as far as that goes i can have it look anywhere for the conffile but that dident really help the issue
<imbrandon> :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no?
<TheMuso> StevenK: I don't usually go anyway, but we have family here as it is.
<imbrandon> in that i still wouldent want it to clobber someone existing conf
<StevenK> TheMuso: Ah
<TheMuso> StevenK: I would go if something interested me that was being talked about.
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, the program should take care of that
<StevenK> TheMuso: But elky's talking tonight!
<imbrandon> LaserJock: hehe should != does
<LaserJock> imbrandon: well, that's your problem right there :-)
<TheMuso> StevenK: She is? I didn't see that. Oh well, as I said, family are here.
<TheMuso> And at this rate, I wouldn't make it.
<persia> LaserJock: It also has to support users who want to mirror distributions other than native, no?
<LaserJock> persia: right, so the program should install defaults to /usr/share/ or something
<LaserJock> and at runtime determine what to do?
<LaserJock> i haven't followed the whole conversation so I'm not all up on the requirements and constraints
<persia> LaserJock: defaults for each release, with a new update whenever one is defined?  Still, what is the initial configuration?  Debian stable?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: its for apt-mirror :)
<LaserJock> look at lsb-release?
<imbrandon> ( e.g. the mirror.list conffile )
<LaserJock> right
<persia> Requirements: 1) preserve user preferences, 2) construct a single configuration method that works for Debian and Ubuntu, 3) set a default native mirror when installed.
<imbrandon> right but what about those that DONT want to mirror the installed release and instead change it to something else
<LaserJock> then they set a conf file somewhere else
<LaserJock> just layer the config
<persia> Erm.  Maybe going with no default, and shipping some samples with dh_installexamples is the way to go...
<LaserJock> look in /etc/mirror.list for user-defined list
<LaserJock> if not check lsb-release and use the appropriate one from /usr/share/
<imbrandon> hrm , would require some code changes ...
<persia> LaserJock: So construct all reasonable configs at build time, and ship them all in /usr/share/apt-mirror/config/ ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> that would also give people easy things if they don't want the default
<LaserJock> just cp /usr/share/apt-mirror/config/<one you want> /etc/
<imbrandon> so if /etc/apt/mirror.list exist use it, if not use sane default
<persia> And then hand-modify if you want some "super newest" broken mix of sid+hardy.
<LaserJock> yep
<imbrandon> hrm ... sounds good , but more suited for apt-mirror-ng :)
<imbrandon> but then again  ....
<imbrandon> hrm
<persia> It's aggressively engineered, supports lots of cases, and sounds reasonable, but it uses some extra space.  Perhaps just use /usr/share/doc/apt-mirror/examples for now, unless you like patching monolithic perl.
<LaserJock> a wrapper script could do it
<persia> LaserJock: How?  redirect fs calls based on the presence or absence of a file?
<LaserJock> well hmm
<imbrandon> well it could cp the file if non exist and that becomes the default ( that way on dist-upgrade also the current mirror dosent suddenly want to download 30GB )
<persia> (or just copy the default file to /etc/apt-mirror/foo-mirror.list at runtime)?
<LaserJock> how is it getting it's config now?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: decided at build time in rules , http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~imbrandon/source/apt-mirror/apt-mirror-0.4.4+debian/debian/rules
<imbrandon> via two configs i pre-made
<persia> if dist-upgrade breaks a local mirror (which makes sense), that definitely belongs in debian/README.Debian
<LaserJock> imbrandon: ok, but at runtime, it just reads /etc/mirror.list?
 * persia thinks build-time is usually good for Ubuntu and usually bad for Debian
<imbrandon> LaserJock: /etc/apt/mirror.list, but yes
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> so it uses that if available
<LaserJock> and if it's not there (new install or whatever) then it uses the default
<LaserJock> seems like a wrapper script can handle that no?
 * persia likes postinst better than a wrapper script if it only copies once in most cases
<imbrandon> yea really i could do that, but just do it via postinst
<imbrandon> new installs would get one tailord for the running OS and old installs would be left alone
<LaserJock> fine, be that way ;-)
 * persia still thinks it can't easily be a conffile, and it may as well be generated with sed at install time rather than shipping lots of different configurations
<LaserJock> postinst seems perfectly reasonable to me
<persia> LaserJock: For apt-mirror-ng, where upstream is nearby and sane, your solution is vastly better :)
<imbrandon> hrm yea, persia thats what i keep comming back to
<imbrandon> yea upstream is on crack for this one, but honestly i havent found anythign better yet, thus i guess i'm ( with possibly Fujitsu's help because he expressed intrest ) gonna make apt-mirror-ng
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> it seems like we have a lot of apps for this kind of thing
<imbrandon> hrm and in reality the current state could be "good enough" if i just left it as is
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: i know of two, and they're both evil and perl, and the less evil one is completely inflexible.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: we was just discussing this earlier :) non seem as flexable as apt-mirror ( e.g. debmirror )
<LaserJock> well, I use reprepro
<persia> LaserJock: They are all 40-70% of the way there, but get reinvented rather than patched as it looks like an easy task.
<LaserJock> then debmirror, rsync, apt-mirror
<imbrandon> thats to make a new repo
<LaserJock> I wonder if falcon can do it
<LaserJock> imbrandon: it can also easily mirror
<imbrandon> falcon CAN but its not designed to
<persia> falcon isn't a mirror
<LaserJock> well, what I guess I'm saying is, do we need different apps for mirroring and creating repos
<imbrandon> persia: falcon can mirror a repo, but arch and component model like apt-mirror is very diffrent
<persia> LaserJock: The current state of affairs is itchy.
<LaserJock> it'd be nice to have one app that rules them all ;-)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea , i think they are very diffrent tasks
<imbrandon> i do them both
<LaserJock> imbrandon: how so?
<LaserJock> it's all managing a repo
<persia> imbrandon: I guess.  I like falcon, but don't think it's suitable for much other than private repos with 15-50 apps.
<LaserJock> whether it is from a remote or local source is somewhat irrevelvant no/
<Fujitsu> debmirror/apt-mirror don't manage repos.
<LaserJock> ?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> just in a very limited way
<Fujitsu> They selectively drag in bits from other sources, but don't regnerate any files.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no they use the same sigs and all
<imbrandon> thus make true mirrors
<LaserJock> I just don't see how they're all that different
<persia> LaserJock: For a mirror, you don't typically want to manage the repo, as you want to save on local CPU.
<LaserJock> I think syncing is managing
<imbrandon> also you dont want the ability to change a mirror typicly, you want it to match the md5sums and sigs from the orig repo
<persia> For a repo, you want to build the Packages.gz Contents.gz and Sources.gz, and manage the pool in a sensible way, but aren't as careful about CPU.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<LaserJock> but I guess my vocab is a bit different
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is it's all kinda the same stuff
<LaserJock> so why not superdupertool --mirror for mirroring
<imbrandon> kinda but enough diffrent it definatly requires diffrent tools
<persia> LaserJock: Probably: it sounds like a nomenclature issue.  My position is that there's once case where you construct metadata, and another where you copy some other metadata, and these are fundamentally different in terms of desired optimisations.
<LaserJock> and superdupertool --repo for managing a repo
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Do one thing, and do it well.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: well ...
<LaserJock> that only goes so far
<LaserJock> at some point it's annoying to have to have a lot of different tools to do similar things
<imbrandon> ok LaserJock lets put it like this, there would probably be less than %5 code sharing between the activities so why combine them ?
<LaserJock> why would it be that little?
<imbrandon> the are very fundimentaly diffrent, one copys one generates
<persia> LaserJock: Because the only commonality is the directory structure.
<imbrandon> even if the results are similar
<LaserJock> right but copy and generate seem pretty similar
<imbrandon> not code wise
<LaserJock> cp and mv are fairly similar
 * persia suggests linking cp to vi
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> there's lots of similar structure
<imbrandon> right but its not a matter of cp and mv, its more like cp and gedit
<persia> between "cp" and "vi"?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> like you're creating the same thing
<imbrandon> LaserJock: only in the end result, not the way you get there
<persia> That's what you're talking about.  A copy program and an editor.
<LaserJock> just in one case you're getting remotely
<LaserJock> in the other you're getting "internally"
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> see thats where your wrong
<LaserJock> ok, my bad then
<persia> LaserJock: Same for cp & vi, no?
<Fujitsu> The mirroring programs are basically selective recursive wgets. The don't modify any files.
<LaserJock> when I use reprepro it's cping
<Fujitsu> s/The d/They d/
<imbrandon> one your getting remotely packages and metadata. the other your getting remotely packages but not metadata
<imbrandon> e.g. the %5 woudl be the easy part of "getting"
<LaserJock> I just think from a end-user perspective they are similar tasks
<persia> LaserJock: It cp's the .dsc, .diff.gz, .orig.tar.gz, and the .deb, but that's not the interesting part.
<LaserJock> and it'd be nice to have a common interface, etc.
<persia> LaserJock: Why?  The use cases are different.  I want a repo if I am publishing.  I want a mirror if I want to aggegrate bandwidth, but don't want to have that much on a proxy.
<LaserJock> often times people want to do both
<imbrandon> right, the end users are totaly diffrent groups
<StevenK> I didn't see any mirroring functionality in reprepro.
<StevenK> Besides, reprepro is a pile of crap.
<LaserJock> heh
<persia> LaserJock: Why would anyone want to do both with the same program?  How might that work?
 * Fujitsu defers to StevenK's judgment.
<Fujitsu> +e
<imbrandon> LaserJock: no many many many uni's and such run mirror, very few run repos :)
<LaserJock> I used reprepro for some time
<LaserJock> imbrandon: lots of companies run both
<persia> LaserJock: Right.  Companies run both, but usually in different repos, and have different management constraints for each.
<imbrandon> not on the same hardware normaly, they are diffrent tasks
<imbrandon> persia: exactly
<persia> These constraints are driven by the business goals, and the interface doesn't matter.
<LaserJock> it's common, I think anyway, to have a mirror and then a repo besides for custom packages
<LaserJock> ok fine :-)
<persia> imbrandon: Can be the same hardware, just different IPs or different subdirectories.  Depends on the HW budget.
<imbrandon> yea, but same idea
<LaserJock> *I* would find it useful, but I guess I"m a corner case, as usual ;-)
<somerville32> What is up with the "dash, getconf and a POSIX sh" thread on the mailing list?
<persia> LaserJock: It may be common, but it's not ideal to mix them, as the keys are different, so they have different trust paths.
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Which ML?
<somerville32> I thought dash was POSIX compliant and that Bash was not so much :/
<somerville32> ubuntu-devel
<persia> somerville32: dash wants patches, but only for rare corner cases.
<Fujitsu> dash has some slight non-compliances, and bash a lot of extensions.
<persia> Isn't bash also missing a couple tiny compliance issues as well?
<Fujitsu> persia: Most probably.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: i lub you :)
<Fujitsu> Though they're likely different from those that dash is lacking.
<SWAT> a program I'm building (preferbly) has a datadir. What would the ideal place to put this? (/opt seems such a nasty place for it, /usr/share ?)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: I know, I'm just ---||--- close from taking off ;-)
<imbrandon> hrm someone just gave me a 128mb ipod shuffle knockoff
<imbrandon> LaserJock: nooooooo!
<persia> SWAT: /usr/share/<package>/ /usr/share/games/<package> and /usr/lib/<package>/ are the recommended locations, depending on the type of data.
<SWAT> persia, thanks. You don't sleep much, do you?
<imbrandon> LaserJock: btw thanks for the idea about the confs, i noted it and will likely use it to apt-mirror-ng
<persia> SWAT: I sleep a lot, but you're busy doing other things then :)
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> brb wife calls
<SWAT> persia, harhar, allright then.
<imbrandon> woot , after over one year upstream FINALY gives me access to release new upstream verions of apt-mirror on sf.net
 * LaserJock finishes his daily Planet Ubuntu *cough* Foresight *cough*
<imbrandon> now i dont have to wait to push my patches upstream :)
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh, yes.
<imbrandon> LaserJock: you also a defector like nixternal ? hehehe
<LaserJock> not yet
<LaserJock> I hung out over there for a little bit
<imbrandon> is it based on ubutnu ?
<imbrandon> ubuntu*
<LaserJock> but I don't have time to keep up with Ubuntu, let alone build a new distro
<LaserJock> imbrandon: nope
<LaserJock> I think it's at least related to rPath Linux
<LaserJock> but I don't think it's based off of anything else really
<imbrandon> ahh rPath being a relitive of Redhat right >?
<LaserJock> relative in what way?
<imbrandon> e.g. was based on RH some long time ago, like RH 7.3 or soemthing
<LaserJock> hmm, have no idea
<LaserJock> it's not now for sure
<LaserJock> it's a new package system
<imbrandon> i *think* it was if memory is right, but no idea really
<LaserJock> basically you package in python
<imbrandon> ahh
<LaserJock> and it's really fast
<imbrandon> wow really ?
<LaserJock> and they just throw everything in
<LaserJock> no free or non-free
<LaserJock> if it's useful they do it
<imbrandon> i've got too much invested in ubuntu/debian atm personaly, but i might give it a peek
<LaserJock> it's interesting at least
<imbrandon> ahh gentoo-esque ( no free / non-free
<imbrandon> )
<LaserJock> many packages take just a few minutes
<persia> Do they ship libdvdcss2?
<LaserJock> hmmm, I'm not sure on that one
<LaserJock> they have a lot of other goodies though
<LaserJock> mostly what we'd do in Multiverse
<persia> I suspect they don't, and that they just have a looser definition of free/non-free, and exclude all non-free.
<LaserJock> java, etc.
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it's like Main+Multiverse
<LaserJock> they don't really have a Universe yet ;-)
<LaserJock> they're just now getting KDE going
<LaserJock> but it's only a handful of people
<LaserJock> and the create packages *fast*
<imbrandon> Fujitsu / StevenK / LaserJock / persia : woot, look what i just got emailed to me ~30 minutes ago
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2374/
<LaserJock> but I've got too much to do to go over there I think
<LaserJock> if anything I'd head over to Fedora I imagine
<persia> imbrandon: Excellent.  Can we have 4.5 with LaserJock7s config handler please :)
<LaserJock> imbrandon: no vcs?
<imbrandon> :) how about i incorp the current patches for 4.5 and shoot for 4.6 for that :)
<imbrandon> LaserJock: even better than i can ask him to use bzr :)
<LaserJock> heh
<persia> Umm..  Can you get 4.6 out by 14th December?
<LaserJock> I tried out git-svn the other day
<LaserJock> it didn't like the svn repo I was working with so much
<LaserJock> I might try bzr-svn and see if it does better
<imbrandon> persia: maybe , depends on how much i neglect other things, but apt-mirror has had a history of using -backports :)
 * persia dreams of no special histories for packages because everything works perfectly the first time
<imbrandon> LaserJock: yea i tried bzr-svn , it isnt terrible
<LaserJock> I just wish I could get gchemutils to not use CVS :/
<LaserJock> svn is a godsend in comparison
<imbrandon> heh i havent used cvs ( other then a rare co of some obsucre source ) since 1999
<LaserJock> I <3 svn
<imbrandon> guess i'm lucky
<LaserJock> imbrandon: really? lots of projects still use it
<imbrandon> yea i dont tend to muck in the source of non-familiar software, i've basicly been using the same software i dev for since about ~2000
<imbrandon> only a few additions like apt-mirror
<imbrandon> here and there
<imbrandon> the only mucking i do with it other than that is packaging
<imbrandon> that i'll touch damn near anything :)
<LaserJock> they only time I've had to use it is with gnome-related stuff
<LaserJock> *the
<imbrandon> yea i havent touched anythgin gnome specific at all, unless you consider mono part of gnome, but even then i stayed with win.forms stuff and cli stuff ( and political stuff )
<LaserJock> heh
<imbrandon> oh and a bit, very very little bit of xsp stuff when it was brand new
<imbrandon> wow looking back at my fist post ( i could find via google, i know it wasent my very first ) to mono ml was 2002, seems so much longer ago
<LaserJock> geeze
<LaserJock> that's when I started grad school
 * LaserJock suddenly gets depressed
<imbrandon> ? heh
<persia> LaserJock: Why?
<LaserJock> I've been here too long
<LaserJock> and imbrandon is so l33t
<imbrandon> nah
<imbrandon> not by a long shot
<persia> LaserJock: I thought 5 years was standard (and also, I bet you know more about computing than he knows about chemistry) (no insult to imbrandon intended)
<imbrandon> hahah very very true :)
<imbrandon> see
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> it was even back before i used "imbrandon" heh http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/mono-list/2002-June/006273.html
<persia> uoxdev?
<imbrandon> Ultima Online emulator i helped found and develop from 1997 to 2003
<LaserJock> "Eagle"?
<imbrandon> yea Eagle was my SN upto about 2003 when i coined "imbrandon"
<LaserJock> man, that's soo much better
<imbrandon> Eagle == short for "Walking Eagle" , my in-game name for Ultima Online, witch also was short for "Walking Eagle, too full of sh*t to fly" :)
<imbrandon> i think my eagle nick still has an o: line on irc.stratic.com iirc :)
<imbrandon> irc.stratics.com*
<imbrandon> persia: and fwiw uox3 ( the "product" of uoxdev.net ) was later rewritten in c# and name changed to runuo ( runuo.com )
<persia> imbrandon: And is it free?  Is it in Ubuntu?  Why not?
<imbrandon> yea its GPL
<imbrandon> but its just the server engine, the client is from EA and its free as in beer but not OSS
<imbrandon> and its not in ubuntu because ummmm
<persia> Is there a use case to run a server without clients?  Maybe multiverse, but I suspect there are other tools now anyway.
<imbrandon> yea you normaly run the server on a dedicated machine
<persia> Ah, so it does have a use then :)
<imbrandon> it works similar to a dedicated quake3 server, in that the clients connect
<imbrandon> but it dosent need to run a client
<persia> So the user can construct their own MMORPG for UO clients?
<imbrandon> yea it has a use case definately, just never thought about packaing it honestly :)
<imbrandon> persia: exactly
<dholbach> good morning
<imbrandon> there are quite a few large "shards" ( what the server is called when running ) online, like uogamer.com
<imbrandon> dholbach: heya
<dholbach> hey imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> persia: heh i guess yo poked me to my next "new" package :)
<imbrandon> honestly i dunno why i never thought about packing it before
<imbrandon> there is even a fork "SunUO" with linux specific optimizations and some other custom things upstream thought were too radical
<somerville32> persia, Will you ack bug #172926?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172926 in harvestman "Sync harvestman 1.4.6-6 from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172926
<persia> somerville32: I can't compile it right now, so no.  I'll be looking at the sponsors queue in about 210-250 minutes, and may ACK it then if it's not already gone.
<LaserJock> good night everybody
<somerville32> Night LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> somerville32: good luck dude. it'll work out
<imbrandon> gnight LaserJock
<persia> somerville32: Just glancing at the queue, are you still working on zim, or is it ready for sponsoring?  "In Progress" may not be the ideal status.
<somerville32> persia, My server went offline (when I build my packages), so I was hoping for that to come back online
<somerville32> persia, I suppose I'll just reconstruct the package and finish locally
<persia> somerville32: No big rush.  Shall I push it out of queue until you're ready?
<somerville32> persia, I remember the gist of your recommendation but can you post it on lp so I make sure I get it all in one go?
<persia> somerville32: I don't remember what you're referencing.
<somerville32> persia, Well, whats holding up zim?
<persia> somerville32: As far as I know, nothing, but the status "In Progress" might cause people to think someone is working on it, and not sponsor it.
<somerville32> persia, Alright, well, if you don't find anything wrong with it then it is ready for upload.
<persia> somerville32: I can't usefully check now, but if you change the status, others might be more inclined to look at it.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<somerville32> imbrandon, are you interested? :]
<imbrandon> somerville32: i can be in about ~10 minutes, right in the middle of a bzr push
<somerville32> imbrandon, Awesome. Thanks.
 * Fujitsu returns.
 * Hobbsee waves
 * somerville32 waves.
 * jussi01 waves at Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<jussi01> anyone now who the project lead for ubuntu-mobile is?
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Hi.
<Hobbsee> jussi01: mithrandir is the tech-lead.
<Hobbsee> jussi01: david morely (unsure of the nick), is hte manager of all of it
<jussi01> Hobbsee: ok, great :)
<jussi01> thank you
<Hobbsee> no problem
<StevenHarperUK> Hi is this the right place to get the relevant persons attention to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/165281
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165281 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.1.16-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<somerville32> imbrandon, How is it coming?
<persia> StevenK: It is the right place, and your bug is in the right status, and will get addressed as soon as the sponsors have a chance.  I suspect that the delay is in part caused by the speed of release of .16 after .15, and some are waiting for .17, although it may just be that the sponsors are fairly busy.
<Hobbsee> persia: wrong nick
<persia> More explicitly, users aren't really expected to be using hardy at all at this point, so there's not a huge incentive to push leaf package updates that may need a rebuild later (although it will likely get pushed soon, as it's getting closer to least-recently touched in the sponsors queue)
<StevenHarperUK> persia: Yeh I guessed my was that the fast release process was holding it up, it is my last release for a while thout
<StevenHarperUK> *thou
 * persia grumbles about nick collisions, and apologises to Steve for having incorrectly highlighted.
<persia> StevenHarperUK: I remember you saying that before, but have personally been chasing other backlogs.  Someone should get to it soon, and it shan't be forgotten in it's current state.
<StevenHarperUK> persia: that all I wanted to hear : ta
 * Hobbsee wonders why hardy seems much stabler than gutsy here
 * TheMuso raises his eyebrows at Hobbsee's statement.
<persia> Hobbsee: You've set the crash on unstable code bit wrong.  Try again.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: my gutsy, having realised that hardy seems to want to work, is deciding to be a royal pain, and crash / drop wifi at random (the card stops lighting up.  never seen that happen before on this machine!), and variosu other things
<TheMuso> lol
<Hobbsee> it's *really* weird!
<Fujitsu> Evening, \sh.
<Fujitsu> \sh: Are you dealing with wireshark's -6111 -> -6121?
<\sh> Fujitsu, jepp...
<\sh> Fujitsu, I#m on it, a bit delicated cherry search picking patches
<Fujitsu> Mhm, sounds painful.
<dholbach> hmmmm, cherries
<\sh> Fujitsu, could you deal with bug #172277 ? I attached a patch from fedora...references are in the comment
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172277 in htdig "[CVE-2007-6110] Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in htsearch in htdig 3.2.0b6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172277
<Fujitsu> \sh: Sure, I'll have a look.
<Fujitsu> Going through other new CVEs at the moment.
<\sh> Fujitsu, can you give me the link to the ubuntu-cve branch? :)
<Fujitsu> \sh: It's the ubuntu-cve-tracker project on LP. The master branch is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security/ubuntu-cve-tracker/master.
<Fujitsu> I'm working through universe CVEs in my branch.
<huats> morning all
<effie_jayx> huats,  morning
<huats> morning effie_jayx
<Fujitsu> \sh: I'm looking at -6131 now.
<pwnguin> wow, deluge is pretty nice
<RAOF> Quite shiny, yes.
<pwnguin> loads faster
<RAOF> Than?
<pwnguin> guess
<pwnguin> azureus
<pwnguin> duh
<RAOF> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Oh dear, oh dear...
<RAOF> Yes, that would be the case.
 * RAOF prefers his bittorrent clients to be smaller than the files he is attempting to download, and hence has never really tried azureus.
<RAOF> Except on windows, it suddenly occurs to me.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<RAOF> Many moons ago.
<pwnguin> azureus was the first client that did a great job of maxing out download for me
<pwnguin> deluge is sitting at 20 MB thouhg
<pwnguin> only half of azureus :P
<RAOF> I hope you don't mean 20Mb/sec, or I may have to kill you.
<pwnguin> no, im not on campus
<pwnguin> 20MB RAM
<RAOF> Right.  Python + miscelanious crazy C++ libs.
<RAOF> (Again, spelling is only enforced on the hale)
<pwnguin> well, we'll see how it holds up after a week of use
<effie_jayx> I have just posted a second patch following suggestions. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<effie_jayx> I think it's ok now
 * \sh needs some aspirine
 * txwikinger2 needs some too
<Tonio_> hi there
<Tonio_> can someone please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=kpar2
<Tonio_> ?
<Hobbsee> soren, ajmitch, please respond to the MOTU application on the list
<soren> Hobbsee: Thanks for poking. It slipped my mind.
<Hobbsee> soren: :)
<frenchy> Tonio_: I'm not a MOTU but where did you get your information on where to put the HomePage in the control file?  I ask simply because maybe I've done it wrong.
<persia> For all that adding a library in the upstream source is annoying, providing a required patch to a library in upstream source is more so :(
<frenchy> Is it wrong of me (as a non MOTU) to ask questions of other packages on REVU?
<pochu> I don't think so, but I'm not a MOTU either :-)
<Hobbsee> no
<persia> frenchy: Not at all.  Please share.
<persia> frenchy: I recommend making sure the person is available, and posting a pastebin with your comments in-channel, as this will get your comments reviewed as well.
<persia> s/person/packager/
<frenchy> Ta
<frenchy> persia: Yeah, I don't think Tonio_ is listening. But we just had a bug hiccup in services so maybe he missed my question.
<frenchy> Tonio_: you there?
<Tonio_> frenchy: yep
<frenchy> Especially now that I know some of the basics ... seems a waste of knowledge if I see someone that wants a review.
<Tonio_> frenchy: any help required ?
<frenchy> Tonio_: I think that there was an inter-server glitch.  Did you get my message about Homepage?
<dholbach> congratulations apachelogger!
<Tonio_> frenchy: yeah, I wasn't aware of that :)
<Tonio_> frenchy: didn't work on native packages for a long time
<Tonio_> hello Mr Holbach !
<dholbach> heya Tonio_
<Tonio_> frenchy: I just reuploaded with the good standard version and homepage tatg
<Tonio_> tag
<frenchy> Tonio_:  So is what you've done with HomePage correct.  If so then maybe I need to find better web page to read.
<dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<frenchy> Ohhh ...
<frenchy> Ta
<ian_brasil> pochu: hey...i am packaging liferea now for ume !!
<pochu> ian_brasil: wow, that's cool!
<pochu> ian_brasil: where your changes accepted upstream?
<pochu> s/where/were/
<ian_brasil> yes...i have cut a dpatch and i will send this
<pochu> Cool :)
<ian_brasil> :)
<pochu> ian_brasil: hmm, does UME use the official repositories?
<Hobbsee> pochu: yes
<pochu> k
<pochu> apachelogger: congrats \o/
<Tonio_> frenchy: is the tag Homepage or HomePage ?
<pochu> Homepage
<Tonio_> k
<frenchy> Sorry, to slow.
<frenchy> too
<apachelogger> woooohooo
 * apachelogger starts shaking hands
<apachelogger> dholbach: thanks
<apachelogger> pochu: thanks
 * dholbach hugs apachelogger
<dholbach> the first austrian MOTU?
<dholbach> where in Austria are you from?
<apachelogger> think so :D
<apachelogger> dholbach: upper austria
<apachelogger> kinda in the middle between salzburg and linz
<dholbach> ah nice... my girlfriend is from austria too, NÃ though
<apachelogger> ~order beer for everyone
 * insanity is going to his secret storehouse to get beer for everyone - might take some time.
 * insanity is back and slides beer down the bar to everyone
<apachelogger> dholbach: cool :D
<apachelogger> cheers everyone!
<Nightrose> cheers
<frenchy> I assume that apachelogger just became a MOTU?
 * ScottK has visited Salzburg and Linz, but it was a LONG time ago.
<frenchy> Congratulations.
<apachelogger> indeed :D
<apachelogger> frenchy: thx
<ScottK> apachelogger: Congratuatlions.  Get to work.
<frenchy> apachelogger: So how long did it take?
<frenchy> apachelogger: I've been thinking of starting the process myself because I've had such great support from these guys but I'm worried that I won't be able to commit time when it's needed.
<huats> apachelogger: congratulations
<huats> !!
<persia> frenchy: I'd recommend doing what you can, when you can.  If you enjoy it, you'll soon find yourself doing more than you expected.
<ScottK> frenchy: The pace is up to you, so don't let that stop you.
<apachelogger> ScottK: aye captain
<apachelogger> frenchy: 1.5 years
<frenchy> apachelogger:  Between wife, kid, 'another on the way' and work  ... they sometimes get in the way.
<apachelogger> huats: thanks
<ScottK> frenchy: No excuse.  I've got the wife and 3 kids so ...
<huats> ScottK: and you are always connected :D
<huats> ScottK: like if you were in all timezones :D
<frenchy> ScottK: But I bet you're not retarded like me .. so there!
<ScottK> huats: Sleep is for the week.
<huats> :)
<ScottK> frenchy: Sooner started, sooner finished.
<effie_jayx> persia, check dholbach's comment on the bug... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<effie_jayx> we did it so that it would get erased doing the script generation phase no?
<persia> effie_jayx: I suspect that comment comes from looking at the debdiff, and not at the package, because, as I said, that package was strange.  Do you know the answer to the question?
<persia> (You put the answer on the wiki, so I think so)
<effie_jayx> persia, :D
<frenchy> ScottK: Ta, you've inspired me ... I'll start reading about what I have to do.
<persia> frenchy: In a nutshell, just help out with universe maintenance for a while.
<frenchy> persia: But I assume that I need some kind of mentor (or something)?
<ScottK> frenchy: Not required.  Lots of people here to help you.
<ScottK> dholbach: ^^^ See: People still think it's required.
<persia> frenchy: You've been working with us a month or so: it's just more of the same.
<persia> For me it took ~2 years from first contribution to MOTU, but I took a lot of vacations.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: it's been long known that poeple think it's required
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Understand.  It's an issue for me that it's not been fixed.
<ScottK> frenchy: It took me ~ 6 months, but I happened to be in a phase where I had a lot of time and was motivated.
<persia> (and ScottK doesn't sleep, as previously noted)
<frenchy> ScottK: Hobbsee: dholbach: That was just an assumption.
<frenchy> persia:
<ScottK> frenchy: It's a common one that I'd like to see us do a better job of clearing up up front.
<persia> frenchy: Don't worry.  It's common, and there's not consensus on how to provide Mentoring while making it clear that it's very much not required.
<frenchy> persia: Sorry, I was trying to say "you can talk".
<frenchy> persia: about the sleeping, that is.
 * persia hibernates regularly
 * ScottK never said he wasn't weak.
<effie_jayx> persia,  well I am merelly following the scheme of making .1 available for the dh_installman to grab ... aren't I
<effie_jayx> ?
<proppy> hi
<persia> effie_jayx: Yes, but you might want to make it explicitly clear what clean: is doing, as that doesn't show in the debdiff.
<frenchy> Well from a noobs view, I go the impression that it needed mentoring because most of the other prior to that one, do require assistance.
<frenchy> s/other/other steps/
<effie_jayx> persia,  but clean is erasing all *.1's after the dh_installman takes them... no?
<ScottK> frenchy: From that perspective we're all your mentor then.
<ScottK> Gotta run.  $WORK calls.
<frenchy> I bet he's going for a quick nap :)
<persia> frenchy: I'm certain you'll need assistance, but I'm also certain that you can find most of what you need here, in #ubuntu-classroom during sessions, from the ubuntu-motu-mentors@l.u.c mailing list, and from reviewer comments for your packages and patches.
<effie_jayx> persia,  I'm rechecking debian/rules
<persia> effie_jayx: To answer your previous question, yes.
<effie_jayx> persia,  then .. what is wrong with having the files as a .1 in the first place?
<persia> effie_jayx: clean: runs before build:.  What will happen?
<frenchy> I'd like to package w_scan if it hasn't already been done.  Is that possible?
<frenchy> Probably a bit late at this stage for Hardy.
<effie_jayx> persia, it gets erased
<effie_jayx> and is there a chance that it runs before the build?
<frenchy> Hobbsee: Thanks for that.
<persia> frenchy: Take a look in LP to see if there is a needs-packaging bug.  If not, make one, and assign yourself.  If so, and it's not assigned, assign yourself.  If it's assigned, probably not.
<persia> effie_jayx: clean: always runs before build:
<effie_jayx> persia,  gotcha... thanks
<frenchy> Hobbsee: that's ok ... I know Makefiles real good.
<persia> effie_jayx: Let me know if you want me to be clear about these things :)
<effie_jayx> persia,  you were ;)
<effie_jayx> I got it...
<effie_jayx> let me reply in the bug... your backup is always welcomed
<frenchy> First thing, I better give back this user name ... I stole it.
<persia> effie_jayx: I'd rather let you chase it: that way you can practice working with the bugs, the sponsoring process, and chasing the problems.
<effie_jayx> persia,  thanks for all the help... I mean it...
<RainCT> heya
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  hello :D
<RainCT> hey Efrain, how is it going? :)
<slytherin> Is there any tutorial on how to package java applications?
<persia> slytherin: Documentation is weak, but there's some useful information from wiki.debian.org
<persia> slytherin: Your best bet to is combine that with comparison to another java package with similar behaviour (library, GUI tool, CLI tool, etc.)
<effie_jayx> RainCT,  all cool... learning lots
<ScottK> slytherin: And you can ask man-di if you get really stuck.  He knows about Java packaging.
<slytherin> ScottK: Sure if I get stuck. I have to yet start. :-)
<persia> ScottK: Re: libssl0.9.7: is feisty, etc. still vulnerable, or did it get patched? (or do you not remember?)
<persia> s/is/in/1
<slytherin> persia: I think looking at some of the existing java application helps more. :-)
<persia> slytherin: Yep :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I saw your comment
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  if you check the package you will fine that in  the clean section of debian/rules .... all *.1 get erased
<dholbach> ah ok
<frenchy> Hang on, "Ubuntu Developers" = MOTU, right?
<frenchy> On https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers, under "Prospective Developers" ... it says ... "work with an existing developer or core developer as a sponsor"
<persia> frenchy: Not quite.  Ubuntu Developers = MOTU + core.
<persia> It says that.  That should be plural.  I'll fix it now.
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  does that make sence?
<effie_jayx> sense
<frenchy> Also, it has a sub heading on the page "Ubuntu Developers (MOTU)" indicating that Ubuntu Developers = MOTU
<dholbach> effie_jayx: maybe, best to add the information to the bug report
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I did comment about it
<dholbach> ok great
<effie_jayx> anything else I should do?
<dholbach> because I'm not the only one looking at those bug reports
<dholbach> ok guys, I'm out for lunch, see you later
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  bon apetit
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
<persia> frenchy: Is that more clear now?
<frenchy> persia: That certainly changes the feel to one of "working together as a team".  Yes, much better.
<persia> frenchy: Thanks a lot for pointing that out.
<frenchy> So all you've got to do is get a couple of MOTUs to sponsor you to the MOTU Council after doing some good work.  Sure, there's a whole lot of "subjective" opinion in there but that
<frenchy> 's the essence of it, right?
<persia> frenchy: That's about it.  I'd suggest also developing a speciality of something you do, and a real interest in some aspect of Ubuntu, as this will help with the subjective parts.
<frenchy> No, firmer rules than that?
<victor_> z7w 12
<persia> frenchy: Nope.
<frenchy> Sorry, that came out all wrong ...
<frenchy> persia: Thanks .. that's what I meant.
<persia> frenchy: Essentially, do what you like.  After a while, you'll become an established contributor and likely start to get involved with something specific.  After doing that for a while, you'll likely be told you need to apply, and then approval takes a week or two.
<frenchy> persia: Do you mean like picking a category of application. like "Video applications"?
<frenchy> persia: Thanks.  Ok, I'll just plod along contributing where I can.
<persia> frenchy: Sure.  working on video stuff, perhaps with the desktop team and mythbuntu team, would be a good area of interest, and a good source of contributions.  As you do more, you'll likely have to touch libraries, sound systems, display systems, etc.
<afflux> Am I allowed to use su-to-root in a .desktop file, or should I use gksu/ksu? (and, is that different to debian?)
<proppy> $ apt-rdepends -r -b cmake -> E: Reverse build-dependencies are not supported
<proppy> too sad :(
<persia> afflux: Most seem to use gksu, but su-to-root might work.  I hope it's not too different than debian, as otherwise we need to check all the desktop files and maybe carry a huge variance: if you follow Debian guidelines, you should be safe.
<proppy> someone know a package that build-depends upon cmake ?
<persia> proppy: You could add a patch :)
<proppy> persia: I still have to patch pastebin :)
<persia> proppy: Alternately, you might be able to extract something with grep-dctrl
<proppy> let's install dctrl-tools
<siretart> grep-dctrl -F Build-Depends -s Package cmake -n /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources
<persia> siretart: Any thoughts about libopenal1 ?  Do you think this is soon, or should I do the libopenal0a merge already?
<siretart> persia: I remember you wrote that you wanted to look for an updated patch for debian, what's the status on this?
<siretart> persia: TBH, I'd like to keep the pacakges in sync. so if you want to work on openal, please prepare an debian upload and I'll sponsor it immediately
<siretart> ok
<siretart> ?
<persia> siretart: The Redhat patch doesn't work for Debian.  I don't want to add the Ubuntu patch to Debian because Kibi's work with the new upstream is a better solution.
<persia> siretart: Please sponsor Kibi's work, and we can sync.
<persia> Essentially, the new upstream has all new assembly code that works fine for AMD64 SMP.
<siretart> persia: KiBi's work is for experimental, not unstable. that's what I discussed with him
<siretart> or did you actually test that the new version actually does work?
<persia> Ah.  Hmmm.  OK.  I'll prep a 1:0.0.8-7 then (with the MMX patch).
<proppy> persia: grep-aptavail with -F Build-Depends seems not available
<siretart> thanks!
<persia> I tested the new version in Ubuntu with torcs, and it worked for me, but that's not enough testing (hence my recent call for more testing).  Kibi said he was waiting for you, hence the ping.
<persia> proppy: Try siretart's line above.  It should work.
<proppy> thanks sirestart
<siretart> persia: I'd suggest let's test it in a PPA. I'm following the openal-devel list, and I don't expect upstream to react timely in case of problems
<proppy> the pb was to grep Sources files and not Packages :)
<persia> No, upstream is currently on hiatus.  OK, I'll push Kibi's to a PPA, and get a 1:0.0.8-7 available somewhere as a sync candidate.  Thanks.
<siretart> proppy: you were asking after sources dependencies, after all
<proppy> kde switched to cmake :)
<proppy> siretart: yep :)
<proppy> siretart: and I was not able to figure out how to tell grep-aptavail to look for that
<proppy> siretart: thanks for your help
<proppy> that make quite a lot of examples to look at
<griffinc> asac: I'm working on a small merge and there is no .orig.tar.gz just a .tar.gz.  that means it's a debian native package, correct?
<proppy> maybe there is even a cdbs class for cmake available :)
<persia> griffinc: Yes
<persia> proppy: There is, but it may not be in cdbs itself.
<griffinc> so when I run debuild -S, it complains that there is no .orig.tar.gz.  Ok to continue and ignore?
<asac> griffinc: right ... we should check if that is valid or a bug in debian
<persia> griffinc: What's the version number in the changelog?
<griffinc> It seemed to build ok.
<griffinc> let me check
<proppy> persia: you mean in a patch to cdbs ?
<proppy> persia: or something like an additional class shipped within the debian directory ?
<griffinc> it's for mailping and the gutsy version was 0.0.4ubuntu4.  the hardy version would be 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 since there was an update in the debian upstream version.
<griffinc> am I understanding that correctly?
<persia> proppy: Sometimes other packages contain cdbs rules, and sometimes there are cdbs snippets floating around looking for a home.
<persia> griffinc: OK.  What's the current Debian version?
<griffinc> persia: 0.0.4-1
<persia> griffinc: It looks like Debian changed from native to non-native packaging then.  You'll want to make yours non-native, and use the Debian orig.tar.gz
<proppy> let's grep cdbs+cmake in build depends
<proppy> youpi
<griffinc> persia: the previous debian version was 0.0.4-0.1 -- does that mean it changed to non-native previously?
<proppy> libwibble-0.1.10ubuntu2/debian/cmake.mk
<griffinc> Debian's source is still .tar.gz not .orig.tar.gz according to packages.debian.org.  hm.
<persia> griffinc: Argh!  It means several people don't understand versioning most likely.  "0.0.4" is a debian native package.  "0.0.4ubuntu1" is what Ubuntu does to a debian native package.  "0.0.4-0.1" is the first NMU to a native package.  The Ubuntu versioning scheme breaks for these, so we usually use "0.0.4ubuntu2".   "0.0.4-1" is the first revision of a non-native package.  Ubuntu makes this "0.0.4-1ubuntu1".  What happened in debian to arrive at 
<asac> persia: you sure that 0.0.4-0.1 is a native NMU?
<persia> asac: Yes.  Completely.
<persia> asac: Annoyingly enough, this means that Ubuntu never version compares properly for native NMUs.
<griffinc> here is the debian changelog:  http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mailping/mailping_0.0.4-1/changelog
<asac> strange i would have bet that dpkg-buildpackage will pick up a 0.0.4 orig and produce a diff.gz if you have such aversion
<persia> asac: Nope.  It's special.
<asac> why= is 0.0.5 < 0.0.4.1 ?
<persia> asac: The reason being that there isn't an orig.tar.gz: you get a warning, but it is safe to ignore (if you're doing a Debian native NMU)
<griffinc> I have made my merges and it seems to build ok, other than the warning when I do debuild -S about no .orig.tar.gz
<\sh> siretart, ping
<griffinc> I meant "I have made my merges..."
<siretart> \sh: ICMP ECHO REPLY
<\sh> siretart, what is the result to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/fai-in-ubuntu? :)
<persia> asac: Yes, but there needs to be an indication it's really a NMU.  I don't understnd why they did it that way.
<asac> you ever saw an NMU of a native package?
<asac> griffinc: if debian now has orig.tar.gz then you should have it as well
<persia> griffinc: Right, but you really want to investigate the version state.  native with -1ubuntu1 is just plain wrong.  It may be necessary, but it's wrong.
<griffinc> asac: debian does not have orig.tar.gz
<persia> asac: Yep.  Look at the changelog for whatever griffinc is merging for an example.
<siretart> \sh: the people in boston seemed to prefer puppet. but I think Matthiasz wanted to look further at fai
<griffinc> http://packages.debian.org/sid/mailping
<griffinc> it still is a .tar.gz it looks like
<\sh> siretart, puppet for deploying large server/desktop installations? I thought it's only a cfengine a like replacement
<persia> asac: http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailping/news/20060812T120213Z.html
<\sh> remembering that puppet was coded in ruby..
<proppy> telepathy-qt-0.14.1 is also a good example
<siretart> \sh: yes. we are comparing apples and peaches here
<proppy> (for the cmake thing)
<griffinc> maybe I should file a bug report w/ Debian?
<\sh> siretart, that's for sure...mass configuration management against mass rollout of machines
<asac> persia: i think we really have to buy this in and use -0.2ubuntu1 then, or what would you suggest?
<siretart> \sh: fai can be used for several things. one is mass deployment, the other is mass configuration
<persia> asac: I've been meaning to write a spec explaining that Ubuntu ought to use -0.0ubuntuX for native packages for a while.  I'm really not sure what to do in this case: it depends on how Debian intends to fix it.
<siretart> \sh: I don't see fai as 3rd official supported installer in ubuntu soon.
<StevenK> persia: ... but then they aren't native anymore
<\sh> siretart, well in combination with other tools, it's fine for mass configuration...
<asac> yeah ... but the only safe way (without knowing the next version) is to use a bad version :)
<persia> StevenK: Well, there's that too.
<siretart> \sh: however I can imagine that we could move fai to main for mass configuration
<\sh> siretart, fai is something for consultants  not for the canonical support center ,-)
<persia> StevenK: Anyway, you were the person who convinced me to not go on a crusade to un-native all the native packages.
<StevenK> persia: So I agree that this problem needs to be looked at. Maybe <version>~ubuntu1 ?
<proppy> puppet looks hype
<persia> StevenK: version~ubuntu1 sorts less than version
<StevenK> persia: Indeed, I just saw that.
<asac> griffinc: ok, I would say that you should use the version like above and file a debian bug asking for someone to integrate the NMU changes in a real upload (of 0.0.5 for example) :)
<StevenK> persia: Never mind me. :-)
<siretart> \sh: well, yes. I still think that one could write something on top of fai which makes mass configuration easy or easier
<persia> StevenK: I don't suppose you feel like drafting the -0.0ubuntu1 spec?
<asac> persia: is there a policy document defining how debian native NMUs should be versioned?
<griffinc> asac: do you mean version-ubuntu1 ?
<siretart> \sh: you'd still need some way to securely distribute your configuration space. svn can provide that, if setup properly
<asac> griffinc: no ... -0.2ubuntu1
<persia> asac: It's in Debian policy somewhere.  I haven't looked it up since feisty.
<siretart> \sh: so there is still a lot of room for improvement here
<griffinc> asac: current debian is 0.0.4-1
<StevenK> persia: Not right now, at least. And I have an objection given that -0.0ubuntu1 is non-native.
<persia> asac: The issue is that griffinc really wants to use a version that sorts higher than 0.0.4-1 somehow.
<persia> StevenK: Do you have a general objection to the -0.1 practice?
<\sh> siretart, yepp.../me needs some time from work to think about some stuff FAI could need
<\sh> anyways...leaving now...weekend :)
<\sh> cu later
<siretart> \sh: cu!
<griffinc> darn.. work is calling me ... just as this is getting really interesting... I will be back in about an hour but will leave my chat open so I can catch up.
<griffinc> figures that I would pick a tricky one to start with!  :-)
<asac> persia: ah ... ok i would suggest to use plain 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 then ... we cannot fix it different without a debian upload
<persia> griffinc: For ease of mind, I really recommend bugfixes first, and hitting merges when your package comes up in queue.
<persia> asac: Sounds reasonable to me: I just think it's worth deeper investigation with Debian to find out if we're supposed to use an orig.tar.gz.
<griffinc> persia, asac thanks for the help
<persia> griffinc: Thanks for helping with the merges.
<griffinc> brb
<griffinc> persia: I am really enjoying this!  :-)  ok, boss is calling... brb
<bddebian> Heya gang
<pochu> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi pochu
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<RainCT> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Heya RainCT
<RainCT> is the process to request removal of packages from main described somewhere?
<persia> RainCT: Do you mean demoting to universe, or complete removal?
<RainCT> persia: to universe
<persia> RainCT: It's sort of loosely documented in the information on main inclusion.  Essentially, if nothing in main depends on it, and it's not required for some other purpose, it will drop out unless it appears in the seeds.  Getting it unseeded requires one of a bug, a discussion on the ML, or a sufficiently agreeable archive admin.  Of these, I recommend the ML (ubuntu-devel)
<persia> (Or maybe just release-admin, I'm not entirely sure)
<persia> Err  release-manager
<RainCT> does ubuntu-devel receive much traffic?
<Hobbsee> persia: getting it unseeded requires deleting it from the seeds, which any core dev can do.
<persia> RainCT: Not so much.  Maybe 20-50 messages a month (at a rough guess).  Most of it is useful if you're involved in development anyway.
<Hobbsee> persia: archive-admin doesn't come into it
<persia> Hobbsee: I thought they only did it with tacit approval of release managers.  Thanks for the correction.
<persia> RainCT: In that case, a bug to U-M-S might also work.
<Hobbsee> persia: of course, the archive admin will actually have to throw it to universe, but it appears on the demote/promote list works way easier
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  RIght.  I sometimes get confused about who sets things up and who does them.
<RainCT> persia: ok, thanks
<martoss> hi all, is there a howto, which is specific for packaging python programs?
<persia> RainCT: No, Hobbsee gets all the credit.  I was not right.
<Hobbsee> persia: you were right on the first half, though
<persia> martoss: Not really.  There's the basic packaging guide, and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy, which together do a pretty good job.
<DaveMorris> I've got a package where the upstream is from cvs, and I'm creating a tarball from a snapshort of that for the usptream.  However some of the files are executable although thy are cpp and h files.  Whats the best way to get this fixed in the packaging?
<ian_brasil> martoss: look on the maemo site...i remember a tutorial there..you basically need to create an make file to act as an intermediary
<persia> DaveMorris: dh_fixperms can help some.  Beyond that, you're stuck with chmod
<persia> ian_brasil: Not necessarily (unless you mean debian/rules).  setup.py is very common, and works well (especially for distutils) in most cases.
<DaveMorris> does cdbs autmatically call that helper script?
<persia> DaveMorris: I forget off the top of my head.  Take a look in /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<ian_brasil> you can create a Makefile with this in it though i think:
<ian_brasil> all:
<ian_brasil> 	python2.5 setup.py build
<ian_brasil> clean:
<ian_brasil> 	python2.5 setup.py clean --all
<ian_brasil> install:
<ian_brasil> 	python2.5 setup.py install --root $(DESTDIR)
 * persia prefers to see that directly in debian/rules
<martoss> ok and then call this the standard way...
<ian_brasil> ah, ok
 * persia further prefers not calling python2.5 directly, to support the future transition to python2.6
<afflux> Hi! I'd like to get my package (gdecrypt) in universe, so could any motu please have a look at it? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787
<ian_brasil> what would this look like in the rules then?
<martoss> i am thinking what's the better way to do it. I am trying to package eric4, eric3 is in the repos and all the eric 4 dependencies are at least in debian unstable.
<persia> ian_brasil: Almost the same, except changing all to build, and adding the other bits to make a package.
<martoss> maybe it's a better idea to reuse all the debian/* stuff from eric3
<persia> afflux: Do you want me to look at it again, or do you actually want it approved this time? :)
<persia> martoss: That's probably a good guideline.
<afflux> persia: hehe, I won't stop you ;)
<martoss> yepp, but for this i have to learn a lot about packaging ;-)
 * persia prepares to reject gdecrypt again, and looks for a reason
<ian_brasil> persia:which source package would be a good example of this approach?
<afflux> persia: thank you :D
<proppy> dholbach: thanks for your comments on libjuce
<persia> ian_brasil: Not being a python person, this will take a bit
<dholbach> proppy: no problem
<proppy> dholbach: I'm currently working on a CMake build
<proppy> dholbach: because the upstream provided build system doesn't support shared library generation nor install rules
<persia> ian_brasil: I suspect any of the packages listed under "Python" at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic would be good examples, but I'm not deeply familiar with python packaging.
<proppy> dholbach: and the FTBS on x64 is due to missing -fPIC option at compile time
<ian_brasil> persia: thx, i am reading that now actually
 * somerville32 woots.
<martoss> ok thanks, i think, I have an impression on where to start
<dholbach> have a great weekend everybody - see you!
<afflux> dholbach: thank you for gdecrypt
<dholbach> no problem
<geser> dholbach: have a nice weekend
<dholbach> you guys too
<persia> afflux: I'm still finding a couple really minor things, minor enough that I'll be reading all the source files to check licensing, etc.  It'll be a while for the comment.
<afflux> persia: okay, no hurry. I'll have a coffee ;) thanks
<LucidFox> dholbach> replied in the kwest bug
<LucidFox> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/babel <-- holy cow, it has consistently FTBFS since dapper and was completely neglected
<LucidFox> (it's completely unrelated to kwest, I just stumbled upon it when searching for "babel")
<geser> LucidFox: therefore we now have a page where we can see which packages don't build right now
<LucidFox> looking at http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/babel.html , it has been removed in Debian - maybe Ubuntu should remove it too?
<persia> LucidFox: Now's your chance to fix 5 releases at once :)
<persia> Err..  Likely.  Why was it removed in Debian?
<bddebian> persia: Heya.  Sounds like Fuddl has had success on scorched3d so you can probably remove that from your list. ;-)
<persia> bddebian: You already told me to remove it.  I still owe you one.
<bddebian> persia: Ah, good, how's your Java sk1llz? ;-P
<persia> bddebian: I haven't written anything bigger than a patch in about 2 years, but once was an "enterprise developer".  What's the package?
<bddebian> persia: I'm trying to package megamek (a BattleTech clone).  I have a "working" package but have a few issues.
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  Java packaging.  That's even more mysterious.  What's not working?
<persia> siretart: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/openal/ is the paper-tape for now (and a sync candidate).
<bddebian> persia: Well for one it hangs on the opening dialogue.  But my main issue is that it has a libs/ dir that contains a few small .jar files that aren't being built from source but need to be in /usr/share/java/
<persia> bddebian: Ah.  That'd be a license issue.  Do the .jar files also contain source, or are they just class files?
<bddebian> persia: The source is in the tarball but compressed
<dsop> i have a question: I have a package with a some *.sh files that are generated into files without the *.sh during the package build. Therefore these files without the prefix doesnot exist in the orig.tar.gz, and the diff have them. Is that okay, i mean, they are generated and should be packaged but they are not part of the source
<bddebian> dsop: They shouldn't show up in the diff if they are generated.  Clean them up in the clean target
<persia> dsop: best to construct them in the build: rule, and delete them in the clean: rule then (or if they are "generated" with mv, mv them back in clean:)
<siretart> persia: did you commit it to an svn branch?
<persia> bddebian: Hmmm..  Are they libraries that anything else makes available?  If not, they should be able to be rebuilt by unpacking, removing the .class files, and rebuilding.
<persia> siretart: I'm not familiar enough with SVN to know how to commit that without overwriting the libopenal1 changes.  I'd be happy to learn how.
<bddebian> persia: That's the part I don't know.  They seem like they should be.  One of them is a tinyxml parser
 * bddebian sucks
<geser> bddebian: you need to rebuild them for several reasons: 1) to know if there's source for them 2) that rebuilding works (in case a patch (e.g. security) is needed)
<persia> bddebian: You get to choose.  Either they exist in another package (Contents.gz can help), or you get to package them, or they can be in this package.  I don't know enough about Java packaging to know why you might make the choice either way.  Sorry.
<bddebian> OK, thanks guys
<geser> what's the difference between "if [[ ... ]]" and "if [ ... ]" in bash?
<geser> and how can I replace the first with something that works in dash?
<somerville32> geser, What are you trying to do?
<geser> somerville32: fixing a build failure
<geser> somerville32: /bin/sh: [[: not found
<geser> the Makefile has: if [[ $${deps} != "" ]]; then \
<griffinc> persia: can I ask you a question back on my mailping issue?
<persia> griffinc: You can, but I'll encourage you to ask generally, as others might be faster to answer.
<griffinc> ah, yes, of course.  thanks.  :-)
<griffinc> I just want to understand something before I file a bug w/ Debian.
<griffinc> According to the Debian changelog for mailping, which is a native package, at one point an update was made to verion 0.0.4.  Then, a NMU was a made which brought the version 0.0.4-0.1.  Then another NMU was made to 0.0.4-0.2.  Everything was ok so far.  Then, the Debian maintainer was changed to the Debian QA group and the new upload was 0.0.4-1 when it should have been 0.0.5.  Is that correct?
<griffinc> Changing the version to 0.0.4-1 essentially makes it appear to be a non-native package?
<LucidFox> What's a native package?
 * RainCT thinks he has found 404main's author :)
<RainCT> LucidFox: a package whose upstream is Debian/Ubuntu afaik
<griffinc> LucidFox: it's a package that is native to Debian as opposed to something obtained from an outside upstream release
<LucidFox> ah
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libhiglayout-java <-- this can be archived again, synced from Debian
<griffinc> In reviewing the discussion from two hours ago, I see that the recommendation was to go with 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 for hardy.
<persia> griffinc: That sounds like a correct summary of the situation.
<persia> Personally, I don't like 0.0.4-1ubuntu1, but it's least likely to impair our ability to sync in the future.
<persia> (which is a major win)
<griffinc> dumb question:  why is 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 less than 0.0.4ubuntu4 - is it because the 'ubuntu1' is less than 'ubuntu4'?  I would think 4-1 is greater than 4.
<griffinc> persia: thanks :-)
<nxvl_work> lionel: around?
<geser> griffinc: because the -1 doesn't belong to the upstream version
<geser> 0.0.4 < 0.0.4ubuntu4
<lionel> nxvl_work: yep
<griffinc> geser: ah, now it clicks.  heh
<griffinc> geser: thanks
<persia> griffinc: Because 0.0.4ubuntu4 is all upstream version, whereas 0.0.4-1ubuntu1 parses to be version 0.0.4 and revision 1ubuntu1.  This versioning is done to support upstreams who release 0.4a and then 0.4b
<nxvl_work> lionel: did you upload apt-proxy 1.9.36-1ubuntu1?
<nxvl_work> bug #120379
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120379 in apt-proxy "Merge apt-proxy-1.9.36-1 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120379
<lionel> hu, maybe :) changelog and my packages page on LP should say that
<griffinc> persia: I understand now.  :)
<griffinc> makes sense
<nxvl_work> lionel: as i understand on the comments you sponsored it
<lionel> yep
<nxvl_work> lionel: but apt-proxy-1.9.36-1ubuntu1 isn't on the repos
<lionel> right, but that's not the version that I sponsored
<lionel>  apt-proxy (1.9.36ubuntu1) gutsy; urgency=low
<lionel> not the one you said :)
<nxvl_work> lionel: oh, ok, i have a confusion because the bug talks about apt-proxy-1.9.36-1 and it's a debdiff of apt-proxy-1.9.36
<nxvl_work> i will open the bug again
<lionel> right, the title is wrong
<nxvl_work> the title or the diff?
<nxvl_work> because there it is apt-proxy-1.9.36-1
<lionel> the title of the bug
<nxvl_work> and needs to be merged
<lionel> no
<lionel> 1.9.36.1
<persia> afflux: My apologies that took so long.  If you can successfully convince me that none of my comments on gdecrypt matter, I'll upload it.
<lionel> not 1.9.36-1 :)
<nxvl_work> oh you are right
<nxvl_work> i will open a new bug
<mdomsch> apachelogger, ping
<apachelogger> mdomsch: pong
<mdomsch> apachelogger, thanks for the revu of firmware-tools and f-a-d
<apachelogger> mdomsch: you're welcome
<mdomsch> are ~${DIST} tags in the version only supposed to be used for backporting - not for the current release?
<apachelogger> mdomsch: yes
<mdomsch> hmm, that'll be fun to handle programattically
<apachelogger> hehe
<mdomsch> so people manually run pdebuild, not via some nice autobuilder?
<persia> mdomsch: You might check with jdong: I think he has a script that automatically adds those and test-builds against the selected repository.
<geser> does somebody know how to make "if [[ $${deps} != "" ]]; then" POSIX compliant?
<persia> geser: Is that inside a makefile?
 * mdomsch does a 'for dist in feisty gutsy hardy; do make sdeb DIST=$d; done
<geser> persia: yes
<persia> geser: That's just not the right way to do things.  Could you please pastebin the stanza?  I'd be happy to give you a suggestion.
 * somerville32 needs to hurry up if we wants to make the top ten uploader list.
<apachelogger> lol
<geser> persia: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46348/ (the package is coq)
<afflux> persia: alright. for the upstream changelog, since there is no debian packaging anymore, there will be no notes in there on that anymore.
<persia> Well, if it weren't in a for statement, you could use ifeq (${deps},""), but this a particularly bad example of forgetting that debian/rules is not a shell script.
<persia> afflux: Right.  That's an easy win.  How about the other three?
<geser> persia: do you know the difference between [[ and [ in bash?
<afflux> persia: yep, guess you're right with them ;) Is it okay to just copy the untranslated strings to the en.po?
<persia> geser: No.  But I still think this is sufficiently un-make-ish to want to try to rewrite it.
<RainCT> geser: [[ is faster and supports more stuff (or that's what they told me in #bash, at least)
<persia> afflux: Yep.  en.po is stupidly simple, until someone branches en_US, en_IN, en_GB, en_CA, etc.  Don't forget the localisations in the .desktop file.
<martoss> cu folks...
<proppy> hi
<proppy> http://pastebin.com/m480eb354
<proppy> does this looks wierd ?
<persia> geser: Just to make sure I'm unrolling properly: this loops over $(ML4FILES), gets a basename, runs CAMLP4DEPS to get some deps, and if there are do, constructs a .depend file, right?
<persia> proppy: At least odd.  I'd expect libjuce.so.1 instead of libjuce.so.0
<proppy> 1.45 is the upstream library version
<persia> (unless there was a SONAME bump that shouldn't have happened)
<proppy> right ?
<persia> proppy: upstream SONAME, but yes.
<proppy> what is the upstream doesnt maintain SONAME
<proppy> I mean the upstream tarball is called juce-1.45.zip
<persia> proppy: Then you get to patch it to maintain a SONAME :)
<afflux> persia: you mean the Comment[en]?
<geser> persia: looks correct
<proppy> so I assume that the library version is 1.45
<persia> afflux: And Name[en] and GenericName[en], but yes.
<proppy> but I understood there is not relation between SONAME and library version
<proppy> but I may be wrong
<persia> proppy: Do you know what a SONAME is or does?
<proppy> SONAME is for abi compatibility
<somerville32> Would anyone be kind enough to sponsor bug #165285 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
<proppy> persia: you bump SONAME when you break binary compatibility IIRC
<persia> Right.  So, you'll want to pick a version that matches this ABI, and keep it (possibly for several upstream versions).
<persia> somerville32: You've just hit a low point in sponsor productivity :(
<crimsun> I'll take it.
<proppy> persia: but I thought there were no relation between the upstream version and SONAME
<somerville32> persia, pardon?
<persia> proppy: There isn't (except for very annoying upstreams)
<proppy> ok so does the upstream version should appear in the library name or not at all ?
<persia> somerville32: That's the longest I've seen an upgrade bug sit in the queue in the last month or so.  It's apparently a low point in queue processing, which is unfortunate for you.  I was commiserating.
<proppy> persia: libjuce.so.0.1.45
<afflux> persia: what if they don't differ? can I just use Name?
<proppy> if soname 0 and upstream version 1.45 ?
<persia> proppy: There's no relation generally.
<crimsun> somerville32: hmm
<crimsun> somerville32: sid has 0.22
<crimsun> somerville32: will you correspond with emfox at debian dot org and see about 0.23-1 into sid?
<somerville32> crimsun, You mean, ditch what I did and ask emfox to do it?
<persia> afflux: You can, but then if someone wants it different, they will change Name, which would break things if you later move to using the .po files to automatically add the Name[], Comment[], and GenericName[] fields from your desktop.in file.  Depends how much you want to do now, and how much later.
<crimsun> somerville32: there's not much point in using the diff, since sid already has 0.22-1, so yes, see if the Debian maintainer will put in 0.23-1.
<lionel> nxvl_work: did you look at your debdiff before attaching for #173088 ? :)
<nxvl_work> lionel: yep, why?
<lionel> debdiff looks a bit empty here :)
<lionel> (just changelog changes)
<nxvl_work> empty?
<nxvl_work> lionel: oh, yes, it's a merge
<somerville32> nxvl_work, Then maybe you want to sync if the only delta is the changelog? :P
<nxvl_work> mmm
<nxvl_work> maybe
<nxvl_work> i will have a look
<nxvl_work> i maybe make a mistake creating the debdiff
<somerville32> crimsun, I worked hard on that package :(
<proppy> persia: so what's the second .0 in libfoo.0.0 ?
<proppy> persia: the minor version of the SONAME ?
 * somerville32 goes to his e-mail client
<somerville32> Oh wait a sec.
<persia> proppy: Usually.
 * somerville32 notes that this has bigger ramifications
<proppy> persia: oh ok
<proppy> persia: and when do you bump the minor version ?
<persia> proppy: At this point you'll do better with Google than with me.
<somerville32> And I have to go pay bills
<proppy> persia: thanks a lot anyway :)
<nxvl_work> somerville32: the debdiff i made was between the old ubuntu, and the new one
<proppy> persia: reading http://debid.vlsm.org/share/Debian-Doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html seems a good idea
<nxvl_work> lionel: i have uploaded a new debdiff
<nxvl_work> lionel: the new debian vs new ubuntu one, maybe thats what you are looking for
<lionel> I realized looking at the merge it was a debdiff against last Ubuntu package after telling you
<nxvl_work> heh
<lionel> will have a look if nobody does before me. need to go now :)
<nxvl_work> well, i have uploaded 2 debdiff so you can take a better look
<lionel> yeah, thanks nxvl_work
<proppy> "The minor number and release number support configuration control by letting you know exactly what version(s) of the library are installed."
<proppy> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html
<persia> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2385/ isn't tested, but doesn't require bash, and uses make more agressively.  It depends on the fact that DEPS is set with = instead of :=, and so is interpolated at use.
<persia> Note that this only works if $(ML4FILES): aren't rules in some other context.
<persia> Err., and $${deps} should be $(DEPS) and $${bn} should be $(basename $@)
<proppy> could be libjuce.so.0.0 or libjuce.so.0.0.1.45
<proppy> but I don't see any library named like that
<proppy> in /usr/lib
<proppy> so libjuce.so.0.0 seems ok
<persia> geser: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2387/ is likely more correct
<jdong> mdomsch: I use prevu, which automatically does no-source-change rebuilds with the ~7.10prevu1 type version numbers for backports testing. Otherwise it is identical to running a pdebuild against a $DIST pbuilder with a local APT repo, and all Ubuntu repos enabled.
<mdomsch> jdong, thanks for the pointer
<mdomsch> for now I'll do 'make sdeb DIST=gutsy DISTTAG='~gutsy1'  in my builders
<mdomsch> which does the pbuilder against $DIST
<mdomsch> sounds exactly the same
<jdong> mdomsch: yeah, whatever floats your boat :)
<proppy> persia: seems that the minor and the release number can match the upstream number: http://pastebin.com/m3f6306bc
<persia> proppy: Sure.  It can optionally do that.  As the packager, you get to choose (especially when upstream isn't choosing)
<proppy> then I guess it will be libjuce.so.0.1.45
<proppy> If i understand correctly
<ScottK> persia: I'm fairly certain it (libssl0.9.7) was not patched.  I was focused on getting it removed from Gutsy at the time.
<geser> persia: I've put the whole Makefile at http://members.ping.de/~mb/tmp/Makefile
<proppy> or maybe lijuce.so.0.0.1.45 not sure
<proppy> let's look at libossl :)
<geser> persia: so I replace beginning from line ".PHONY: depend" till the newline before the ml4clean target with your snippet?
<proppy> for libssl SONAME match the upstream version -> "annoying upstreams" ?
<persia> geser: You need to keep whatever was in .PHONY before, and add $(ML4FILES).  The depend rule can be replaced with my snippet (but it needs testing: this was just a quick edit)
<persia> proppy: When I said "annoying upstreams" I was referring to libraries that change ABI with every release.  Not everyone who tracks the third (optional) version in the SONAME is guilty.
<proppy> persia: but libssl seems not to have a room for bumping the so name if abi breaks
<persia> geser: Also, the makefile needs to not have rules matching $(ML4FILES) anywhere else.  If it does, more adjustment is required to make it work cleanly.
<proppy> persia: they will have to bump to 1.9.8 ?
<proppy> not only the soname but also their package version
<persia> proppy: Maybe.  I forget if libssl is annoying.
<geser> persia: perhaps I should leave this FTBFS to someone more experienced with makefiles
<proppy> persia: :)
<proppy> let's name libjuce libjuce.so.0.0
<persia> geser: The cheap & dirty solution is to create a depsmangle shell script that doesn't require bash, and pass it $(MLFILES).
<persia> (if you just want to fix a FTBFS and don't want to make a pretty makefile)
<persia> Alternately, you could force bash in the makefile, but that's even less preferable.
<geser> persia: shouldn't it be enough to replace the [[ ]] with [ ] to fix the FTBFS?
<DarkSun88> Hi
<persia> geser: Well, you'd need to change "[[ $${deps} != "" ]]" to "[ "x$${deps}" != "x" ]" as bourne test has issues with empty strings, but it might.
<geser> right
<geser> persia: is it equal to "[ -z $${deps} ]"?
<persia> geser: That's even cleaner, and yes.
<persia> Err "[ -z "$${deps}" ]"
<persia> As otherwise you get "[ -z  ]" which will cause make to exit.
<nxvl_work> jdong: around?
<afflux> persia: I'm back :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=797
<persia> No need to hit all the channels :)
<persia> afflux: Advocated.  Nice work.  Now your package joins the special purgatory of packages I've advocated at the top of the REVU list.
<bluekuja> persia, the new afflux's upload needs another ack before getting uploaded right?
<persia> bluekuja: Right.  It looks great to me.  Take a look if you have a few minutes.
<bluekuja> persia, as far as daniel's one was done in the previously uploaded package
<persia> bluekuja: Right.
<bluekuja> persia, k, let me check it. I hope I won't need to leave for dinner/training
<persia> Sometimes (rarely) there are regressions in new uploads, so the two advocations have to happen for the same upload.
<afflux> persia: thanks for ACKing. Anyone else for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=797 ? (since dholbach is in weekend now ;))
<bluekuja> afflux, I've started checking it, but I'm not sure I can make it for this evening (cause dinner+training)
<geser> ajmitch: what's the status on bug #104616 or Debian bug #380825?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 104616 in gnue-appserver "[apport] gnue-appserver crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104616
<ubotu> Debian bug 380825 in gnue-common "Python transition (#2): you are building a private python module !" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/380825
<persia> Ubulette: At long last, I've taken another look at prism.  Almost there.
<Ubulette> persia, thanks.
<afflux> bluekuja: no hurry ;)
<bluekuja> afflux, ok, I'm leaving now
<bluekuja> it's on TODO anyway
<bluekuja> cya
<afflux> persia: I love you :P
<persia> afflux: What'd I do?
<afflux> persia: advocate me, finally... ;)
<persia> afflux: Well, you fixed everything.  Some packages get in before I find them, but you weren't so lucky :)
<geser> afflux: do you really need python-all-dev in b-d for gdecrypt? should python be enough as you don't need any python headers or all python versions
<persia> geser: Thanks.  I suck at python packaging details :)
<geser> afflux: doesn't gdecrypt work with python2.4?
 * afflux goes kill himself
<Ubulette> persia, fixed & re-upped on REVU
<afflux> geser: persia made me do that ;)
<persia> afflux: Don't do that: gdecrypt'll never get in that way :)
<persia> Wait.  What did I do?  I only said I wasn't sure it complied with the python packaging policy.
<afflux> geser: I'll check python2.4
 * effie_jayx takes afflux  to a healing temple and sees him resurrect
<persia> Ubulette: Thanks.  It'll be a bit, but I should have a little time this weekend (it's late here)
<geser> I might not but uptodate on the python policy but afaik python is enough for python apps, python-all for python modules and python-all-dev for python extensions (need python headers)
<geser> afflux: so it will work with python-all-dev in b-d (but is more than needed)
<afflux> persia: You asked whether there was a reason to Build-Depend on python-dev instead of python-all-dev? Since there was none (that I know), I used python-all-dev.
<afflux> geser: okay. So, python or python-all?
<persia> My understanding was that python-dev was python2.5 only and python-all-dev was all versions of python.  I may be mistaken.
<persia> (aptitude makes me think I'm right, but I'm lousy with python packaging)
<geser> python should be enough as one python version is enough (you don't need all python versions installed during build, do you?)
<persia> Doesn't having all the pythons installed during build do something special for python-support/python-central ?
<afflux> persia: maybe, I was really confused about python{,-all}{,-dev} ;)
<persia> afflux: No worries.  It's confusing, and apparently I don't get it either.
<geser> persia: afaik it's only needed for modules which install into /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/
<geser> persia: "Some applications and pure Python modules may be able to depend only on python or python-all and not require the -dev packages." [http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ap-build_dependencies.html]
<persia> geser: Ah.  So scripts don't need it then?
<geser> afaik no, but I'm no python packaging guru
<persia> geser: Isn't that the less NEW python packaging policy?  I usually point at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
<persia> Hmm.  Maybe www.d.o has caught up.  Ignore that.
<DktrKranz> Are archive open or still waiting for Alpha 1?
<persia> DktrKranz: It never closed
<DktrKranz> persia, I know, but it has been told to limit uploads to packages relevent for Alpha
<afflux> persia, geser: okay, b-d on python is linda/lintian clean, I'll upload that now.
<persia> DktrKranz: It only matters for packages that affect the CD builds.
<DktrKranz> persia, probably I missed that point. thanks
<geser> DktrKranz: the freeze announcement aren't often very specific if they also apply for universe
<geser> but during the gutsy freezes processing of universe uploads was only on manual
<persia> DktrKranz: It wasn't clear from the ML post.  Anyway, pretty much until DIF, you can upload as much of anything as you want.  Between DIF and FF, there's a little more effort to make sure things work properly.  After FF the freezes are fairly firm, and the focus is bugs.  Further, if there is a freeze, you can upload, but it won't get applied until the freeze is over.
<DktrKranz> well, I preferred to limit uploads to avoid problems, luckily I had not urgent packages to manage
<afflux> persia, geser: and another one... :) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=799
 * persia is too tired to do another review tonight.
<DktrKranz> afflux, since python-support depends on python, I think it is useless to have it listed in build-deps
<geser> DktrKranz: afaik linda/lintian checks it
<DktrKranz> geser, lintian/linda reports are clear
<geser> DktrKranz: without a python b-d?
<DktrKranz> IIRC, yes
<geser> but imho it's better to depend on python and don't rely on other packages pulling it in
<DktrKranz> List it in b-d does not harm, but I don't think python-support will exclude python from its dependencies. Anyway, it's not an error
<jdong> nxvl_work: hey, got your e-mail on Azureus; I don't see any sense in merging it right now
<jdong> nxvl_work: az 3.x requires SWT version 3.3, which in Ubuntu we derive from Eclipse 3.3
<jdong> nxvl_work: last I heard there's people actively working on said Eclipse package already, so once that's in the merge of Azureus should be extremely trivial.
<nxvl_work> jdong: a read something like that on LP, i send you the email to make sure of it, so if it's so, let's wait
<jdong> nxvl_work: agreed :)
<nxvl_work> is there any way to search ubuntu member by country?
<geser> afflux: advocated. Please don't do any other uploads unless absolutely necessary.
<persia> DktrKranz: About the NBS parser: could the depending package names link to their LP pages?
<DktrKranz> persia, it's a WIP, I plan to interface it with python-apt first
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  I'll stop snooping for nifty-cool tools then :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<DktrKranz> :)
<DktrKranz> Are NBS tracker sources available somewhere?
<persia> DktrKranz: Frustratingly not, but the output is.
<persia> Actually, the source might be available, but I can't see it.  Which reminds me.
<DktrKranz> I based my script on its output
<DktrKranz> but it's barely unfinished :)
<persia> DktrKranz: Oh, you mean the one that generates that list?  I think it might be available.
<DktrKranz> I mean the one who generate NBS output, probably I can find better ways to improve my *bad* script
<geser> I assume it runs in the data center and the output is only copied to people.u.c
<geser> DktrKranz: you might want to ask pitti
<DktrKranz> I fear he's away now, but I'll ping when he will be online
<persia> I think the sources aren't, as I don't see them in any of the usual places.
<geser> DktrKranz: where are you stuck with your script?
<persia> DktrKranz: The equivalent for Debian is available: look in the (opaque) DAK package.
<DktrKranz> geser, http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/. I'm not stuck, just I haven't found time to work on it :)
<geser> DktrKranz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/checkrdepends might be source for it
<persia> That looks like it takes input from somewhere else, no?
<geser> then it's only a part of it
<persia> That's what I thought.  Best to ask pitti on Monday
<afflux> persia:  sorry, looks like I had a disconnect with tor. Did you say anything about gdecrypt since about 19:18 UTC?
<DktrKranz> Lutin, mlt package requires sox-dev -> libsox-dev transition. Mind if I look at it or you plan to do some changes?
<geser> afflux: advocated. Please don't do any other uploads unless absolutely necessary.
<AnAnt> Hello, I made an icon-theme which is a modified version of human-icon-theme. human-icon-theme is licensed under CC, so what should the copyright my icon theme look like ?
<Lutin> DktrKranz: planning to do some changes, I'll have a look. thanks for the heads-up :)
<DktrKranz> Lutin, you're welcome :)
<Lutin> DktrKranz: :)
<MenZa> AnAnt, read the specific licence; it should say.
<AnAnt> ok, if I have a package that contains several files, some are under GPL, some are under CC, how do I explain that in copyright file ?
<geser> list which files are under which license
<AnAnt> geser: can you tell me about an example package ?
<AnAnt> geser: note that each of those files has a separate copyright holder ?
<geser> sorry, not of my head
<AnAnt> ok, thanks anyways
<geser> AnAnt: I'd simply repeat the "author, copyright, licence"-block as often as needed and state to which files it applies
<AnAnt> geser: ok, thanks
<erable> Hi,
<erable> I work with this package : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=725
<erable> and I don't understand this comment "-dev needs to depend on the actual lib"
<erable> dpkg --info libqextserialport-dev_1.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb | grep Depend
<erable> return:
<erable> Depends: libqextserialport1 (= 1.1-0ubuntu1), libqt4-dev
<geser> apachelogger: ^^ as you added that comment
<geser> erable: it looks ok, so I don't understand that point either
<apachelogger> agreed
<apachelogger> was just me being stupid
<apachelogger> erable: sorry
<erable> Ok ;-)
<erable> thank you for your comments
<apachelogger> erable: hehe, you're welcome :)
<erable> :-)
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<apachelogger> erable: please merge the qtsmbstatus changelog lines to one: Initial release (LP: #119179)
<apachelogger> erable: newline missing at the end of control file missing
<erable> OK. I'll do that
<apachelogger> erable: I think section="Applications" for .menu has been changed
<apachelogger> not sure about that though
<apachelogger> actually I think you can drop the .menu anyway, since everyone should be using freedesktop desktop files
<apachelogger> that's my personal opinion though
<apachelogger> typo in the .init: # Provides:          QtSbstatusd
<apachelogger> erable: # Required-Start:    $smb should be samba AFAIK
<apachelogger> cat /etc/init.d/samba | grep Provides
<apachelogger> # Provides:          samba
<apachelogger> erable: .pam also missing a newline at the end
<erable> Yes, it's a generic script (sUSE USE $smb)
<erable> ok
<sistpoty> hi folks
<apachelogger> erable: advocted qextserialport
<sistpoty> persia: did you advocate sdlmame-cheat on purpose? (as you mention things to be fixed)
<sistpoty> apachelogger: congrats to motu-ship!
<apachelogger> sistpoty: thanks :)
<erable> apachelogger: thanks :-)
<Ubulette> RAOF, mozilla wants cairo 1.6 for ff3.
<TheMuso> Did anybody request the removal of cinepaint from hardy?
<sistpoty> dear lazyirc, I'm looking for a tool to fetch mail (just like fetchmail) via ssh from an mbox-file, any infos?
<RAOF> Ubulette: Are they likely to get it?
<geser> TheMuso: I only see a record in http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt but no bug for it
<TheMuso> geser: Right.
<TheMuso> Oh thats why.
<TheMuso> geser: Theres no bug, because Debian removed it.
<Ubulette> RAOF, they committed a bump to 1.5.2-55 today
<Fujitsu> -55? That's insane!
<Ubulette> 1.5.2-55-g39b8ddf to be precise
<RAOF> Ubulette: What I mean is - is 1.6 likely to be released before FF3?  From what I gathered at the cairo site, the 1.5 unstable branch is pretty new.
<geser> TheMuso: Debian removed also other packages that are still in Ubuntu
<TheMuso> geser: Yeah I know. I was just chacing down a broken ubuntustudio metapackage thats all.
<Ubulette> RAOF, I don't know for cairo but I doubt mozilla could even roll that back. it's too deeply merged
<RAOF> Awkward.
<Ubulette> ff3 b2 is nearly ready
<RAOF> Presumably they're talking with cairo about it.
<Ubulette> yes
<LordKow> is the "Application" category for desktop files still being used? I thought I remember this not being the case
<Amaranth> it was never supposed to be used, iirc it's not actually in the spec
<geser> LordKow: iirc no, but check your desktop file with desktop-file-validate
<LordKow> okay its Deprecated
<LordKow> grr, we could sync this package with debian except for that one minor glitch
<Amaranth> LordKow: If that's the only thing ignore it
<Amaranth> LordKow: Everyone using Application in their categories anyway
<Fujitsu> It is illegal, and anybody doing it is wrong, but it's not worth holding a delta for.
<geser> LordKow: you could open a bug for it in Debian
<Amaranth> This whole spec is stupid anyway so don't feel bad :P
<LordKow> okay, what about UTF8 encoding?
<Amaranth> that is deprecated, UTF-8 is the only encoding allowed
<Amaranth> so it doesn't need to be there but can be
<LordKow> okay, i'll request a sync.
<Ubulette> !info libx264-dev hardy
<ubotu> Package libx264-dev does not exist in hardy
<Ubulette> !info libx264-dev gutsy
<ubotu> libx264-dev: development files for libx264. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 1:0.svn20070309-4ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 219 kB, installed size 660 kB
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: You can drop the distros/ from LP URLs now, you know?
<Ubulette> hmm
<jdong> Ubulette: is there something wrong with x264?
<norsetto> ubotu and ubulette falling in love it seems ......
 * jdong puts on his blame-me badge
<Ubulette> gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10 needs libx264-dev
<jdong> Ubulette: which I don't know why isn't in Hardy.
<jdong> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264/1:0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu1/+build/449762
<jdong> it built on i386 5 days ago
<Ubulette> #  Removal requested  12 hours ago.
<jdong> huh?
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264/1%3A0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu1
 * jdong looks confusedly at that
<Ubulette> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264    no hardy in there
<Fujitsu> Did we inherit that removal from Debian?
<jdong> why is it superseded?
<jdong> Fujitsu: I don't think x264 was ever in Debian
<jdong> at least not this release cycle
<Fujitsu> jdong: I don't think it's superseded. It was directly requested to be removed.
<Fujitsu> Otherwise you'd see `Superseded on blah'
<jdong> Fujitsu: is there a log of who requested it?
<Fujitsu> (From Debian) RM: RoFTPM; patent issues
<jdong> Fujitsu: that shouldn't be applicable to our multiverse, should it?
<Fujitsu> jdong: One would think not. Talk to an archive admin before it is properly removed.
 * Fujitsu looks through other removals to see what shouldn't have been done.
<jdong> hmm are any online currently?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Most probably.
<TheMuso> jdong, Fujitsu, I was asking similar questions about cinepaint earlier, however theres good reason why that has been removed.
<Fujitsu> I'm glad to see cinepaint dead, right.
<Ubulette> jdong, http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/x264.html
<geser> we should decide what we do about the split out php5 modules (I see php5-interbase got removed)
 * Fujitsu blinks.
<jdong> Ubulette: correct, DEbian stopped distributing it and it went back to multimedia
<Fujitsu> Why didn't the 7.10 removal run kill it?
<Fujitsu> jdong: Get it blacklisted if you find an archive admin, please.
<jdong> Fujitsu: does that mean blacklisted from removal?
<Fujitsu> jdong: It should mean that the automatic tools (autosyncer and removals) should exclude it, I think.
<jdong> Fujitsu: ok, gotcha, will keep eyes peeled for archivies :)
<Ubulette> jdong, so what should I use instead ?
<Fujitsu> I really wish the -changes lists actually showed changes, rather than just some uploads.
<jdong> Ubulette: x264 must be restored. or I'll cry.
<jdong> Ubulette: sit tight while we sort this out
<jdong> Ubulette: feel free to flag down an archive admin if I don't get there first
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Like removals as well?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yes. And copies.
<Fujitsu> And security uploads, but they're returning soon.
<Ubulette> jdong, ok. I'll drop that from my bot queue
<LordKow> ah crap, i cant file a sync on this for 1 reason
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: btw: great work on security, keep going!
<LordKow> +Exec=su-to-root -X -c gsambad
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Where did you discover I was doing much security stuff? The uploads aren't announced anywhere.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: I'm a member of motu-swat :P
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Of course.
<Fujitsu> We need more people :(
<Ubulette> hmm, my new shiny ipod is unusable in ubuntu. rhythmbox/exaile/banshee are all crashing.
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: Touch?
<Ubulette> hipo too
<Ubulette> nano
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: definitely... I'm feeling guilty for not having done a security fix for ages, since I'm just out of time :(
<Fujitsu> IIRC I saw some uploads to Hardy to support them.
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Most people haven't done a security fix ever.
<DarkMageZ> Ubulette, check the libgpod site and see if they've implemented support for it. if so then rebuild libgod then your prefered player against that.
<superm1> Ubulette, actually i've got a fair deal of stuff for gutsy to help make it work you can try
<sistpoty> Nafallo: not most, but some... (e.g. crimsun did quite some security in the old days)
<superm1> with the newer libgpod
<superm1> and everything rebuild against it
<superm1> in the ~ipod-touch ppa
<sistpoty> s/nafallo/Fujitsu
 * keescook hugs all the motu-swat :)
<Fujitsu> Hey keescook.
<keescook> heya!
<Nafallo> sistpoty: hi :-)
<superm1> hi keescook
<sistpoty> hi Nafallo :)
<sistpoty> and hi keescook:
 * TheMuso would help with security, but he already has enough on his Ubuntu plate.
<keescook> hai sistpoty, superm1 :)
<Ubulette> !info libgpod hardy
<ubotu> Package libgpod does not exist in hardy
<superm1> Ubulette, in hardy its libgpod3
<Ubulette> !info libgpod3 hardy
<ubotu> libgpod3: a library to read and write songs and artwork to an iPod. In component main, is optional. Version 0.6.0-3 (hardy), package size 191 kB, installed size 400 kB
<Fujitsu> keescook: Was there any reason you didn't roll the single character fix for CVE-2006-3122 into you recent dhcp security uploads?
<ubotu> The supersede_lease function in memory.c in ISC DHCP (dhcpd) server 2.0pl5 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (application crash) via a DHCPDISCOVER packet with a 32 byte client-identifier, which causes the packet to be interpreted as a corrupt uid and causes the server to exit with "corrupt lease uid." (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3122)
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: however feel free to take the lead and remove old/inactive members
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: btw.: there is one pending request from emgent (obviously not around)... did he provide debdiffs or some stuff yet? otherwise I'll decline him.
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: He has done a little bit of stuff, but I'm not sure. I declined somebody else a couple of days back; they hadn't done anything at all.
<sistpoty> Fujitsu: ok, then I'll just leave him as waiting approval and you'll approve/decline him once the time has come ;)
<Fujitsu> sistpoty: Yep.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh fingers
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yes, damn fingers. Best to cut them off.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: If only, if only.
 * sistpoty needs to go to bed now... gn8 everyone
<RainCT> good night
<Ubulette> ok, i've packaged libgpod-0.6.0+svn20071126r1804, i'm gonna try that one
 * emgent heya
<Fujitsu> Hi emgent.
<LordKow> bug 173155
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173155 in gsambad "Please upload merge gsambad-0.1.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (admin)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173155
<Fujitsu> keescook: Do you agree with Debian's unimportant assessment of CVE-2007-6131? It is marketed as just a demo script, but you never know...
<ubotu> buttonpressed.sh in scanbuttond 0.2.3 allows local users to overwrite arbitrary files via a symlink attack on the (1) scan.pnm and (2) scan.jpg temporary files. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6131)
<norsetto> g'night all
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-01
<crimsun> jcastro: so the loco thingy is in 23 minutes?
<jcastro> crimsun: yep!
<crimsun> jcastro: okay.
<jcastro> crimsun: christer tells me it will be pretty q+a based
<jcastro> so I was thinking
<jcastro> if people ask about motu stuff we just shuffle them in here
<crimsun> jcastro: sure.
<nixternal> wasabi!
<crimsun> vista?  No!
<nixternal> yes, I will do the vista qa
<nixternal> packaging for vista 101
<nixternal> what chan is this loco thing in?
<crimsun> I'm thinking ubuntu-us
<nixternal> not in the topic there...heck, I can't even find info on it
<keescook> Fujitsu: CVE-2006 -3122 is already fixed afaict.  Did I miss something in it?
<keescook> (oh, dapper, edgy.... erk)
<keescook> Fujitsu: that was an oversight.
<keescook> Fujitsu: CVE- 2007-6131> yeah, seems like to make it vulnerable, it'd have to be edited manually anyway.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Yep, missed a single character..
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Fujitsu> keescook: Is there anything that needs to be done with rejects other than removing them and adding them to not-for-us?
<keescook> Fujitsu: if there are no notes, etc, just bzr rm and add to not-for-us
<Fujitsu> keescook: Otherwise throw it in ignored/?
<keescook> Fujitsu: if there are notes, just mark everything not-affected, replace the description with ** REJECT ** and move it to retired
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<keescook> I'd use retired since it was "processed" in some way, ignored is "kinda open, but actively ignored by us"... not a clear distinction, I guess.
<Fujitsu> True.
<keescook> and if it's dumb, I'm happy to re-arrange stuff.  It made sense at the time.  ;)
<Fujitsu> I think your way makes sense.
<Fujitsu> I think it would make sense to remove much of the information from the branch once malone gets an external API, as there is a lot of duplication at the moment. Bug URLs, assignees, release statuses are all in Malone too.
<Fujitsu> (me advocating moving stuff to LP? Never thought I'd see the day)
<LordKow> bug 134795 if in fact this bug can be confirmed, is it security-vulnerability worthy?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134795 in gsambad "GSAMBAD switches User and Password match levels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134795
<persia> sistpoty: Yes, it was on purpose: I'm not sure any of those are important enough to fix for a package that is essentially a single text file.
<LordKow> does not effect gutsy or hardy but does effect feisty which I believe we will support until oct 08
<persia> apachelogger: Please don't advocate the removal or non-inclusion of menu files.  While .desktop files fill the needs for many users, some people still require menu files to work around non-compliant window managers.
<keescook> Fujitsu: right, I basically got sick of LP having everything we needed to track, and set up the tracker separately.  Once we know "how" the tracker should work, that should hopefully help guide the LP bits when that rolls around again
<Fujitsu> keescook: LP *not* having everything, you mean?
<keescook> sorry, yes
<keescook> hehe
<Fujitsu> LP's CVE abilities are very unfinished.
<persia> Fujitsu: keescook: Could I ask about bug #173153?  Specifically, it appears that the code path tries the user preference temp directory, then, if that fails, tries a default temp directory, and then, if that fails, asks the user to enter a new directory on the next run.  I don't understand how the attack works.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173153 in audacity "[CVE-2007-6061] Denial of service and deletion of an arbitrary directory tree via symlink attack" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173153
<Fujitsu> So yes, we'll need to kick them into doing something once we work out what needs to be done.
<keescook> persia: reading...
<Fujitsu> persia: Hmm, I haven't actually tested it, but the description on the Gentoo bug makes sense to me.
<persia> gentoo bug #199751
<Fujitsu> The symlink attack only works on quit.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right, but audacity opens the directory on start, and closes & removes on quit.  Is this just a race condition on quit?
<persia> (it does use 755 strangely, rather than 700, but that's different)
<keescook> persia: yeah, without reading code, it seems like a real issue, with races too maybe.
<persia> keescook: I am reading code (familiar with the codebase), but don't understand the nature of the problem well enough to fix it.
<keescook> persia: okay, one sec, I'll dig in (currently research DDR2 prices...)
<persia> e.g.  What should it do?  On start, it tries to create (and open) two directories (primary and fallback), or asks the user.  On quit, it closes the directory, and removes it.  Is the problem a race condition on quit?
<persia> (and no rush :) )
<persia> s/e.g./i.e/
 * Fujitsu just got it to eat a directory tree.
<LordKow> bug 134795 needs sponsor
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134795 in gsambad "GSAMBAD switches User and Password match levels" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134795
<nenolod> i don't really like malone
<LordKow> it is arguably a minor secure vulnerability too
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I see.  Use of rm_dash_rf_execute without pre-checking.  I still don't understand the denial-of-service bit, but I'll try to fix the directory eating bit in the next bit now.
<nenolod> LordKow, more of those bloody UI config tools
<LordKow> yes, its evil
<persia> s/in the next bit//
<nenolod> LordKow, the author of that thing claims he knows me. i don't know who he is though :/
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, it seems to prompt here on startup if I create /tmp/audacity1.2-william as another user. I then click Yes, create a symlink as another user, and blow away some directories. I can't see the DoS.
<LordKow> the author of the app or the report?
<nenolod> LordKow, app
<nenolod> "GAdminTools project"
<LordKow> ah, yea the way the ui is handled is ridiculous. completely depends on the order of the code
<LordKow> and its still that way in the most current, 0.1.8
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  I was looking too closely at the DoS, and not closely enough at the dispose of everything problem.  Thanks for pushing me in the right direction.
<Fujitsu> persia: The Gentoo bug states that you need to change the owner while audacity is running. If an attacker can do that, you're already stuffed, are you not?
<nenolod> LordKow, i think the whole concept of UI admin tools is unsound, sorry.
<persia> Fujitsu: Essentially.  If someone else has rights to change ownership on your files, there are other more critical possible vectors.
<LordKow> i will respectfully disagree to that :)
<LordKow> sometimes admins are in a huge hurry and gui is usually a lot faster than sifting through config files
<Fujitsu> persia: Yep.
<nenolod> LordKow, UI admin tools cause things like servers getting rooted because their admin is a stupid moron who can't admin his server without a GUI
<nenolod> LordKow, moreover, UI admin tools cause things like X running on a server which is inappropriate at best
<Fujitsu> So the remaining vulnerability seems to only exist if the user dismisses the initial warning, but that's not much of a warning.
<persia> nenolod: I'll agree with that, but please also consider the poor home user.
<LordKow> nenolod, you are probably right but its not a reason to remove it from the repos.
<nenolod> persia, sure for a home user it is fine
<nenolod> LordKow, i'm not proposing removing it from the repos
<persia> Fujitsu: No, and I don't think changing the wording is the right way to fix it.  I don't see the value of rm_dash_rf_execute anyway: `rm -r` should really be the right thing to do.
<LordKow> ah k, i thought you were trying to go somewhere besides a rant ;-)
<nenolod> however, i strongly feel that ubuntu should not become the next Windows 2003
<nenolod> ;p
<LordKow> i should send this bug upstream to debian since i see they still use 0.4
<Fujitsu> persia: How is removing the -f going to do much?
<persia> Fujitsu: Doesn't remove files set read only, or belonging to someone else.
<Fujitsu> Ah, I didn't know of the ownership bit.
<persia> (not that the implementation is with rm anyway)
<Fujitsu> You're right, that works.
<persia> On the other hand, digging more, it appears that it only calls wxRemoveFile(file); recursively, so the -rf is just poor nomenclature.  Now I'm tempted to look at the start again, but I'm not sure how to 1) create a secure reusable temp directory that 2) can be in a user-specified location to use high-IO-speed media.
<nenolod> http://mange.dynalias.org/linux.html
<nenolod> however, i would say the attitude of this author of GADMINTOOLS might be a good justification of removing it from the repo
<nenolod> on his site he advocates "taking down freenode"
<Fujitsu> persia: Can you not use mktemp on any template?
<keescook> re-usable temp dirs in a world-writable dir is hard to get right.  :(
<Fujitsu> keescook: Mhm.
<persia> Fujitsu: mktemp and mkstemp aren't available in a way that still works for Windows :(  I could hack it in, but that might break the WX file handling.
<keescook> I think you can open the dir and use fdstat to determine who owns the directory in a safe way
<Fujitsu> persia: Oh, true...
<keescook> portability, though, ergk
 * nenolod plays with the idea of packaging BSD pcc as an alternate compiler
<persia> keescook: http://www.wxwidgets.org/manuals/2.6/wx_filefunctions.html#filefunctions are the functions available (unless we want to call this a WX bug)
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, if I o+w the directory, audacity doesn't warn at all. That's what I missed.
<Fujitsu> persia: What does it do on Windows? There's no /tmp there...
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  So if someone sets their preferences to point at a symlink that points somewhere to which they can write, the cleanup recurise remove runs without warning.  Do I have that right?
<Fujitsu> Or are there still c:\temp dirs in recent versions?
<Fujitsu> persia: No preferences required.
<persia> Fujitsu: It first tries the path in preferences.  If that fails, it tries the default path.  If that fails, it asks the user to change the preference.
<persia> In that case, I think you're hitting the default path.  Perhaps just not try the default path, and force a preference setting?
<nenolod> Fujitsu, C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Temporary Files
<Fujitsu> persia: If login as another user, create /tmp/audacity1.2-william, chmod o+w it, create a symlink `projectsomething' to /home/william.
<Fujitsu> Then wait for them to open Audacity, close it, and watch their ~ die.
<Fujitsu> persia: Forcing a preference sounds very anti-Just Works.
<crimsun> if portability is the issue, see glib's g_mkstemp
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  There's definitely a problem.  Further forcing a preference sounds wrong.  Perhaps forcing the default to be created afresh?
<keescook> the "open" needs checking, I think.  If you know the directory is good with safe perms, then all the other removal stuff is safe.
<persia> Grrr..  WX doesn't support file ownership.  Looking at glib.
<Fujitsu> keescook: If it's not 755, bail out?
 * Fujitsu wonders why wx covers some of the stuff it does.
<persia> Fujitsu: Someone was very bored.
<keescook> Fujitsu: right, or bail if fdstat owner != self or o+w
<Fujitsu> keescook: You don't regard g+w as mildly unsafe?
<persia> Hmm..  How about changing the default logic to use wxFileName::CreateTempFileName, and if that succeeds, drop it and put in the directory?  There's a race condition, but it's less bad.
<keescook> yeah, should probably check that too... symantics get weird for groups stuff... maybe they DO want to share their audacity temp dir.  (who knows why)
<Fujitsu> keescook: Right.
<persia> There's no good reason to share an audacity temp dir: it's only currently streaming data there.
<keescook> fair enough.  :)
<keescook> so, why is it in a static location?  (i.e. why not create a new safe tempdir on each invocation?)
<Fujitsu> That's what I was wondering.
<Fujitsu> It cleans it too thoroughly on exit anyway.
<persia> keescook: That's a good question.  The only static part that is interesting is allowing the user to control the device, and using tmpfs by default.
<Fujitsu> persia: What does the tempfile function you mentioned earlier do?\
<persia> Right.  Because of the aggressive cleaning, I think it should just complain if the default directory already exists, and refuse.
<crimsun> erm, what's the simplest solution here?  Introducing races is a bad thing.
<persia> Fujitsu: creates a 600 file iff it can find a brand new location in which to do so.  Looking more carefully, it's not deterministic with regards to device, so it's not a good solution.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<persia> crimsun: I think the simplest solution is to just not use the default location unless the directory can be created at startup.
 * keescook nods
<Fujitsu> persia: The directory isn't deleted on exit
<persia> (the preferences definition is the user's own problem)
<persia> Fujitsu: I can change that.
<keescook> I'd say always create a temp dir
<Fujitsu> persia: Not for existing installations (although it is a tmpfs)
<persia> keescook: Even if the user specified one in preferences?  Perhaps a default-named tempdir under the user-supplied path?
<persia> Fujitsu: Sure.  Users who have previously run audacity since the last reboot have to delete a directory or reboot.  That's what NEWS.Debian is for, no?
<keescook> I think the if-not-owned-by-us test is sufficient for the set-in-prefs situation
<keescook> honestly, you probably want to bring it up with upstream.
<persia> keescook: There isn't a if-not-owned-by-us test that can go upstream.
 * persia decides to have breakfast, and comment on the upstream bug rather than fixing it
<Fujitsu> persia: Late breakfast.
<Fujitsu> keescook: How often do you normally wave your magic uploading wand over things?
<persia> Fujitsu: I tried to clear the REVU queue last night, and failed to notice until it was quite late :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
<Fujitsu> I do like the new segregation and ordering.
<persia> Makes it much easier to find targets for reviews.
<Fujitsu> Definitely.
<imbrandon> moins all
<Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya
<keescook> Fujitsu: I have carved a section out on mondays for it.  Is there stuff waiting right now?
<pwnguin> how do i document a program consuming 100 percent cpu?
<Fujitsu> keescook: There are a few things, but they can wait. I was just wondering if you did have a certain time for it.
<pwnguin> Deluge-torrent is eating up an entire core
<pwnguin> but im not sure i can duplicate it =/
<Fujitsu> pwnguin: Have you checked what it's doing?
<keescook> pwnguin: I'd run     strace -f -s 1024 -p $PID 2>/tmp/whoa.log     then wait a few seconds and ctrl-c it.
<Fujitsu> What keescook said.
<keescook>  /tmp/whoa.log should show a bit about what it's spending it's time doing, though that may not really answer the question.  :P
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> looks like its mostly kernel mode
<pwnguin> good idea on the strace then
<pwnguin> heh, doesnt respond to control-c
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Fujitsu> bddebianisagod!
<bddebian> pfft
<bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> i dont think it's evening yet...
<Fujitsu> It's getting there.
 * persia thinks it depends on where you think you are
<TheMuso> Evening? Its barely past lunch time.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<pwnguin> keescook: so how do you kill that strace?
<keescook> pwnguin: normally ctrl-C just works
<keescook> if not, I tend to ctrl-z, kill %1
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: that was my thought
 * Fujitsu is well known for greeting with completely bogus $TIMEOFDAY, even in real life.
<TheMuso> Real life? THis is real life. :p
<Fujitsu> Heh.
 * Fujitsu has work too, so there is some other real life.
 * Fujitsu now vanishes for a couple of hours.
<Hobbsee> must be time for breakfast.
<DarkMageZ> breakfast @ 1:46pm ?
<persia> Good night fujitsu
<Hobbsee> yes, and?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: btw, ubuntu-main-sponsors exists
<DarkMageZ> why/when did i want to know that ubuntu-main-sponsors exists?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: evan's mail to -devel-discuss.  although i guess you put the debdiff in after that
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: either way, when you put in a debdiff, you probably want to subscribe the sponsorship team for that component, so it gets in
<persia> Well, -security stuff is a little different, but otherwise...
<DarkMageZ> is this in reference to what i did to rhythmbox?
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: yeah
<DarkMageZ> ah, i c. i'll try and keep that in mind.
<DarkMageZ> is there a won't fix status for lp bugs? i can't seem to set it with my limited powers.
<slangasek> there is, but yes it requires powers
<slangasek> (offhand I couldn't tell you which)
<DarkMageZ> could someone kill bug #74125 with won't fix?
<Hobbsee> slangasek: being in what was -qa
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 74125 in libvisual-plugins "dfsg removed plugins > libvisual-plugins-multiverse?" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74125
<Hobbsee> i think it's -buglords now
<TheMuso> lol
<TheMuso> Yay. Installed.
 * Hobbsee installs automatix on TheMuso's machine, to see if he says the same thing
<DarkMageZ> isn't installing automatix on someone elses machine an act of terrorism?
<jdong> DarkMageZ: You're pronouncing it wrong: turrsm...
<jdong> DarkMageZ: listen to the state of the union address again...
<elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, sabotage at very least
<jdong> it's an act of war.
<elkbuntu> jdong, where does one aquire a bush translator, do you know?
<jdong> We need to defeat them at their repository before they come and invade our own repository.
<jdong> ok enough Bush parody for one night :)
<jdong> it hurts.
<imbrandon> elkbuntu: foxnews.com :)
<jdong> elkbuntu: what he said.
<frenchy> Is there an application that MOTUs and try-hard MOTUs use to create, check and build packages?  Maybe integrated with REVU.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: pbuilder, lintian, linda....
<imbrandon> lintian/linda
<Hobbsee> there are some review tools somewhere, actually
<frenchy> I know there's a lot of bits and pieces that people use. But ...
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: in the archive, not sure how upto date they are
<jdong> frenchy: no, there's nothing magically integrated together yet
<Hobbsee> an integrated one?  no, not unless you're talking about revutools
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ahhh
<frenchy> They are just that ... bit's and pieces.
<imbrandon> frenchy: yup
<frenchy> I'd like to build one (GTK based) that you can point at an upstream URL (or local) file and it takes you through a wizard asking you things like name, description.  Then does the build for you and does the linda/lintian checks for you.
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, would it also build it for you?
<imbrandon> frenchy: sure, your free to doso, its been talked aobut before just not acted upon
<frenchy> The checking part of the application could be used to check existing packages on REVU.
 * Hobbsee twitches
<frenchy> Hobbsee: You don't like?
<Hobbsee> sounds like the evil checkinstall.
<jdong> Hobbsee: oh I've seen worse :)
<Hobbsee> frenchy: anything that involves a "wizard", instead of making you modify debian/control yourself...is bad.
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, not if it is done correctly.
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: where correctly is "give a GUI to fill in the fields yourself"?
<frenchy> Hobbsee: I really just meant for initial creation.  From then on it's the maintainers responsibility to keep it updated but the tool could still warn you about issues in the file.
<Hobbsee> frenchy: you still need to set everything in debian/control for initial creation
<Hobbsee> after htat, there's a tool called uupdate
<DarkMageZ> if the tool is comprehensive it could be very useful.
<DarkMageZ> otherwise it'd be a waste of time.
 * Hobbsee wonders what's so unfriendly about a text editor.
<jdong> Hobbsee: well if it's emacs I can understand the pain.
<jdong> *hides*
<Hobbsee> jdong: sure, i meant a text editor of choice :)
<frenchy> There's just a lot of "bit and pieces" to put it all together.  I think that it's quite daunting for a new person and wastes MOTUs time with basic questions.
 * imbrandon wonders what Hobbsee has against people trying, it could be something good
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: only the crack that they'll come up with, if it's anything like checkinstall, tbh.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: who said it would be? we had talked about just this before
<imbrandon> with deb checking etc
<Hobbsee> true.  maybe it works.
<imbrandon> :)
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, could you include the ability to build a package and save it (as a module) and then later when you're building another package that depends on the first package that it could be easily added to the build system?
<jdong> if it works well then yeah a more streamlined approach would be fantastic
<imbrandon> it *could* work is all i'm getting at, no need to be negitive from the get go
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> imbrandon: +!
<jdong> +1
<frenchy> imbrandon:  Well I was thinking of calling pbuilber to do that.  Will that work?
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, i'm forever playing with packages that require a new library or a newer version of a library that is not part of the repos.
<frenchy> DarkMageZ:  Sorry, that was for you ^^^
<jdong> DarkMageZ: I have my pbuilder (prevu) output to a local repo which is in turn used in subsequent builds. Works fantastically for me
<imbrandon> frenchy: not if the debian/control isnt filled out properly, honestly the tool is a great idea, but no offence it need someone with alot of packing experince to create it
<frenchy> That
<frenchy> 's where you guys come in.
<TheMuso> jdong: What do you use to manage your repo?
<jdong> TheMuso: prevu does it with dpkg-scanpackage calls after every build
<frenchy> I'll learn and have a self documenting tool at the same time ... just an idea.
<imbrandon> just dont write it in perl :)
<imbrandon> lol
<frenchy> imbrandon: Although I think the best choise is python ... I'm a c/C++ guy.
<DarkMageZ> jdong, interesting hack. maybe something alittle more complex could be used in frenchy's tool.
<jdong> DarkMageZ: yeah, the concept is there but of course it can be done more elegantly.
<jdong> imbrandon: write it in scheme!!!
<TheMuso> jdong: Right. That is certainly quick and dirty
<frenchy> I'l do anything tat you guys ask.
 * TheMuso has shell scripts almost complete to properly make and update a repo using apt-ftparchive.
<TheMuso> And they use a little flat file db.
<frenchy> I like XML.  Does anyone hate XML?
<jdong> <XMLPreferenceContainer>
<jdong> <attribute type="XMLPreference" values="low,high">low</attribute>
<jdong> </XMLPreferenceContainer>
<frenchy> jdong: That's a no?
<jdong> frenchy: meh that's just me being a smartass. I don't care :)
<jdong> it just ALWAYS seems XML is ridiculously verbose without any visible benefits
<frenchy> jdong: Or are you just merely stating that XML is verbose.
<frenchy> Yeah
<imbrandon> frenchy: there are always oponents to everything, best case is "just do it" and if someone cares enough either way they will help
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> frenchy: don't use my opinions in deterring you from picking a format *you* like.
<frenchy> imbrandon:  Ta
<jdong> frenchy: I've used the Python editor in IDLE before. I can bear anything.
<jdong> :D
<TheMuso> IMO it should be human readable
<TheMuso> XML is, but isn't.
<jdong> XML isn't.
<frenchy> Hang on ... what was the DB for?
<DarkMageZ> storing a structure of previously built packages. so i can pick bits and pieces for use in building packages later
<frenchy> I was thinking of using it for preferences and recently dl'ed packages list.  All of which will be editable from the interface.
<frenchy> DarkMageZ: won't pbuilder do that for you ... I don't know .. I thought that it could.
<TheMuso> frenchy: What interface were you thinking of
<frenchy> TheMuso: GTK, is that what you're asking?
<TheMuso> frenchy: Yes. I don't see the point in having a GUI for such tools.
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, it won't do it automatically. it requires a fair amount of pain.
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: aka ccache?
<DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, na. ccache is fun
<persia> Personally, I'd be in favor of such a tool, if the focus was on a dh-make replacement to build a better sample, rather than a checkinstall replacement, to make a new package.
<Hobbsee> persia++
<persia> s/sample/example/
<TheMuso> persia: ++
<DarkMageZ> i'd prefer if the tool was capable of both
 * TheMuso would prefer if the tool actively discouraged checkinstall.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Just add a hook that calls lintian, linda, pbuilder/sbuild, lintian, and linda
<persia> DarkMageZ: More explicitly: the wheel shouldn't be reinvented just because it can, but dh-make is not necessarily strong enough to do the right thing in many cases.
<persia> To put it another way, I'd prefer an interactive wizard that helped the user to create a starting debian/ directory, rather than copying a bunch of examples that just have to get deleted later.
<frenchy> DarkMageZ: I refer you to jdong's earlier comment: "I have my pbuilder (prevu) output to a local repo which is in turn used in subsequent builds. Works fantastically for me"
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah that sounds good.
<frenchy> persia: Exactly ... exactly what I mean.
<frenchy> I'm sure you guys must get sink of noobs, like me, getting on, asking for a REVU, without knowing all the tools/rules that I could've used.  Same thing every time.
<frenchy> I didn't even know what linda/lintian was before I asked for my package to be reviewed.
<frenchy> Sure, my bad but I'd expect you see a lot of this.
<persia> frenchy: Indeed, yes.  It's not so bad to explain lintian & linda, but it's frustrating to see the same dh-make induced errors on so many packages.
<frenchy> persia: I understand you frustration ... but people don't know until they are told or they read it ... but they've got to *know* that there's something to read.  There are so many bits and pieces.
<frenchy> And of course, it's not all selfless ... I'll learn a shit-ang load from you guys in the process.
<frenchy> So, I might just start with a simple wizard that can create a debian project from an upstream.  I wanted to do this for w_scan anyway.
<frenchy> And no, I won't call it "Me Packager"!
<frenchy> DarkMageZ: Do you know if jdong's solution suits you?
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, it's a hack that could be potentially useful. but if your tool is going to build the packages as well. it could be very useful to integrate something like that properly and cleanly
<TheMuso> on't forget there are also those of us who use sbuild with LVM snapshots.
<TheMuso> don't
<frenchy> DarkMageZ: TheMuso: when it comes to that part I'll talk about your requirements on a little more detail.  Thanks both for your comments.
<frenchy> TheMuso: Now, you didn't like my idea of a GTK interface.  Can I ask why?
 * Hobbsee bets the ansewr is "accessibility"
<bddebian> persia: Do you actually play conquest?
<DarkMageZ> gtk is slow and flaky. etk or qt4 ftw :)
<frenchy> DarkMageZ: Ahhh ... are you a KDE guy?
<imbrandon> kde rocks :)
<frenchy> Sorry, I've programmed and used them all and I think that GNOME is da bomb.
<DarkMageZ> frenchy, nope. just anti gtk :)
<imbrandon> although i will assume TheMuso will not like qt moreso than gtk :)
<frenchy> imbrandon: qt4 was one of the suggestions.
<TheMuso> ffThats before I saw persia's suggestion of a wizard.
<TheMuso> frenchy: Thats before I saw persia's suggestion of a wizard.
<frenchy> Why does ubuntu push GNOME if it's so bad?
<TheMuso> GTK rocks. It has accessibility, something which QT can't really bost about atm.
<TheMuso> frenchy: I thought the tool would be quite different to what it is likely going to be.
<frenchy> TheMuso: Yes. And I can have a non digital clock ... sorry ... little dig.
<frenchy> TheMuso: So are you still "anti" UI?
<frenchy> TheMuso: GTK UI?
<TheMuso> frenchy: No I am not.
<LordKow> well if you're anti-UI then how is someone supposed to use a computer? :P
<frenchy> TheMuso: It will be initially aimed at noobs.
<LordKow> UI = User Interface
<Hobbsee> LordKow: usually i'ts referring to GUI.
<TheMuso> frenchy: Yeah I gathered. What language are you going to use? Python?
<LordKow> i know im just playing with technicalities :P
<frenchy> Probably not even though I admit that it might be a better option.  I'm a C/C++ guy.
<TheMuso> Fair enough.
<LordKow> hmm i would tackle this heimdal merge but im weary of doing merges that involves libs that I dont use. and even more this is a significant version jump, 0.7 to 1.0
<frenchy> Ok, have to go and meet the outlaws, then I'll get started after that.  I thank you all for you comments and look forward to helping you, help me.
<LordKow> bug 95240 if the changes recommended in this bug report are correct I will adjust the keytouch merge i will be working on to close this bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 95240 in keytouch "keytouch user level preferences are in administration instead of preferences menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95240
<LordKow> items in Preferences are on a per user basis, while Administration entries are system-wide correct?
<LordKow> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/keytouch/REPORT *sniffle
<LordKow> please let them be all changes i can drop
<LordKow> heh all those conflicts are simply times/dates yay
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, debdiff so that stacktraces can be useful. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual.debdiff
<ember> what can make executable 0755 on a .dpatch?
<ember> is this normal?
<LucidFox> ember> yes
<LordKow>   help_button = gtk_button_new_from_stock ("gtk-help"); <-- now how is that supposed to be a valid help entry for KeyTouch?
<LordKow> well i guess i dont know exactly how GTK UI works, has to be event driven though
<LordKow> i see, keytouch has no callback for help because there is no help yet the button is there... well its the difference between a sync and a merge i shall leave it
<LordKow> bug 173191
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173191 in keytouch "Please sync keytouch-2.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian sid (admin)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173191
<LordKow> ugh compiz still has some minor glitches with window borders, oh well
 * Hobbsee grumbles about email
<Hobbsee> motu generates too much email :P
<LordKow> heh Hobbsee i think the lesson is dont put anything on the internet, even if its not in the announcement list, without it being considered "released" by people
<LordKow> :P
<ScottK> What now?
<LordKow> (with regard to the Alpha 1 comment on the forums)
<Hobbsee> LordKow: that's not really possible....
<LordKow> i know :P
<LordKow> you could pw protect the page until its in the announcements if it matters that much
<Hobbsee> it would, of course, help if the forum mods actually understood about release stuff
<Hobbsee> and double checked with the release team before making official statements like that...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: It's forums.  Understand is counter productive.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah well.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i made a comment in sevilla, near a whole bunch of other forums people, to the effect of "well, there's so much misinformation on the forums, any real stuff will probably be negated by all of that, so who cares?"
<Hobbsee> neeldess to say, i had to run rather quickly :P
<ScottK> I second the motion.  Even when I was a brand new Ubuntu user who didn't know much of anything, I didn't do much with them.
<LordKow> i dont consider anything on the forums "official" unless its a sticky or an announcement
 * StevenK has ignored the forums
<LordKow> and quite honestly i never even pay attention to releases except for switching my repositories over to the new development name (i always use development repos)
<ScottK> But this is worth a trip to the forums to read ... http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3869792&postcount=16
<minghua> ScottK: Not worth a trip for me.  I want my ten seconds back. :-)
<LordKow> "never gave me no problem"
<LordKow> so it has always given this person problems?
<LordKow> heheh
<nixternal> wow, I am wondering how we have a 3 year old version of mt-daapd in our repos, when they just release 0.2?
<nixternal> 3 year old version == 0.9
<Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd
<Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd hardy
<ubotu> mt-daapd: iTunes-compatible DAAP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9~r1586-1 (gutsy), package size 649 kB, installed size 1560 kB
<ubotu> mt-daapd: iTunes-compatible DAAP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9~r1586-1 (hardy), package size 649 kB, installed size 1560 kB
<Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd dapper
<ubotu> Package mt-daapd does not exist in dapper
<nixternal> it is like that in debian as well
<nixternal> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98211&package_id=105189
<Fujitsu> Maybe they said their next version would be 0.9.
<Fujitsu> Or the maintainer is on crack.
<nixternal> dunno
<Burgundavia> maintainer might be MIA
<nixternal> maintainer isn't mia
<nixternal> going to email him in a few
<nixternal> mt-daapd is now called firefly as well
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: MIAness has nothing to do with broken versions.
<nixternal> so treu
<nixternal> true too
<Burgundavia> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=joshk@triplehelix.org
<nixternal> [2007-07-19] Accepted 0.9~r1586-1 in unstable (low) (Joshua Kwan)
<nixternal> just need to find out his online nick
<Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd edgy
<ubotu> Package mt-daapd does not exist in edgy
<Fujitsu> I'm sure it's been around longer than that...
<nixternal> it has been, just not in our repos
<nixternal> it is in gutsy
<imbrandon> 2006-10-12 was uploaded in debian first
<imbrandon> 0.2+something
<nixternal> ya, they had the version then what it is now
<nixternal> that is goofy stuff
<imbrandon> 0.2.4+r1376-1
<imbrandon> looks like he does svn checkout,s and in svn it might have been called 0.9
<nixternal> just looked through svn, don't see 0.9 anywhere in it
<imbrandon> heh well then it will probably take an epoc to fix :)
<nixternal> 2004-01-29  Ron Pedde  <ron@pedde.com>
<nixternal> * Bump version number to 0.1.1
<imbrandon> i would find out why first though, tralled the changelog ?
<nixternal> that is the first item in the svn changelog
<Fujitsu> Please also check the future intentions of upstream; they might do a bzr.
<imbrandon> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mt-daapd/current/changelog
<nixternal> only thing in svn with a reference to anything with '0.9' is
<imbrandon> nixternal: http://nightlies.mt-daapd.org/
<nixternal> 2004-11-27 03:13  rpedde 6038  6039   * src/rend-howl.c: Update rend-howl to run with howl 0.9.
<imbrandon> its a nightly release
<nixternal> ahhh
<nixternal> good find...I didn't even see that damn link
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> so it is the retarded crack dealers at firefly
<nixternal> can you send a back hand through email?
<imbrandon> ohhhh there is mipsel ipk packages ... i could run this on my FON :)
<imbrandon> uSLUg ipkgs too , nice
<imbrandon> unSLUgand windows, and osx dmg's, wow these guys cover the bases, and on nightly builds at that
<nixternal> ya, they have gotten their act back together, that's for sure
<nixternal> iirc, you were the one who turned me on to daapd
<nixternal> i like it because i listen with amarok here, itunes there, and even from school I can stream my tunes :)
<imbrandon> nixternal: yea i've been running mt-daapd since before it was in debian and before i was a MOTU, but i just dont follow the dev of it, it "just works" once installed :)
<nixternal> actually, when you told me about it, it wasn't in debian/ubuntu either
<nixternal> I had to build it from svn
<imbrandon> i think i told you about it when amarok grew the ability to play daap streams
<imbrandon> yea
<nixternal> actually, before amarok
<nixternal> I was using rythmbox with it
<imbrandon> maybe anyhow yea
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> and when amarok sprung its wings, I quickly dropped that crap and came back over to the right side :p
<imbrandon> i had it running on my breezy fileserver for quite a while
<Fujitsu> Oh die LP.
<nixternal> not to shabby....so far I have re-synched 400,000 songs and have just under 100,000 more to go
<Fujitsu> William Grant does not currently have any assigned bugs in htdig in Ubuntu Dapper. Continue assigning this bug?
<nixternal> rm -rf htdig!
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: huh ? heh
<Fujitsu> IT ASKS ME FOR EVERY SINGLE TASK.
<imbrandon> wow
<nixternal> if you get it working correctly with khelpcenter, I will give you a cookie
 * Fujitsu files a bug.
<nixternal> Fujitsu: our htdig is absolute garbage...we need to snag openSUSEs version because it works
<StevenK> nixternal: Is the same true for Debian's?
<Fujitsu> nixternal: I'm currently concerned with CVE-2007-6110 which is against it.
<ubotu> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in htsearch in htdig 3.2.0b6 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the sort parameter. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6110)
<nixternal> I think openSUSE is the only distro where it searches
<Fujitsu> And LP being retarded.
<nixternal> StevenK: I believe so, can't remember though
<Fujitsu> It should say `oh look, William Grant is an ubuntu-dev, so it might be mildly sane that I allow him to be assigned'
<nixternal> I spent a week messing with it last year trying to get it to work
<nixternal> I checked out 4 or 5 other distros and it didn't work there either
<nixternal> iirc, it isn't even maintained upstream anymore
<nixternal> it was missing build-deps last year when I filed a bug against it
<LucidFox> If a Debian package has Standards-Version: 3.6.2, should I leave that alone or bump?
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: We like to keep the diff minimal, so leave it alone.
<nxvl> hi folks
<imbrandon> heya nxvl
<Fujitsu> Hi nxvl.
<jdong> WELL that was fun
<jdong> my dorm was just evacuated for a fire alarm at 2:15AM
<jdong> yay!
<imbrandon> jdong: stop smokin weed in the dorm
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> lol too late
<minghua> people smoke weed in the dorm?
<minghua> Isn't that just asking for trouble...
<imbrandon> anyone have any recomendations on a free ( as in beer ) online file storage place that will let me use it like a real fs, maybe via fuse or some such, dosnet have to be big, i'm probably only gonna keep a ~25MB encrypted FS image on it ( and no i dont wanna use gDrive , something legit)
<jdong> minghua: haha , no, we just managed to lose water pressure which set off the alarm system
 * imbrandon does so in the privacy of his own home
 * jdong blames it on the nearby construction
<nxvl> imbrandon: gmail
<imbrandon> nxvl: gmail == gDrive
<imbrandon> i'd like to use something legit
<nxvl> stuff like
 * minghua hasn't heard of such free services.
<imbrandon> Ron Paul wants to legalize it :)
<minghua> And 25 MB is not small IMO...
<imbrandon> minghua: well most of the free ones offer 5GB or more, so its small relitively
<imbrandon> but they are all webbased only
<jdong> imbrandon: what about one of those free shell providers?
<minghua> imbrandon: Oh, you mean things like mediafire?
<jdong> imbrandon: I definitely recall some of them having quotas in the 20-30MB ballpark
<imbrandon> jdong: hrm true i dident think about that, sshfs
<jdong> yep :)
<imbrandon> minghua: yea or box.net etc
<jdong> Ubulette: x264 has been reuploaded to hardy; currently somehow it's in depwait on libgpac-dev which should already have been available... *grumble*
<Fujitsu> jdong: Ogre-modle.
<Fujitsu> s/modle/model
<Fujitsu> ogre-model + LP bug == haha.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: What's the LP bug?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: All new sources go to main. No questions asked.
<Fujitsu> And you can't demote from the web UI.
<jdong> Fujitsu: oh that's right...
<jdong> Fujitsu: I forgot about that
<StevenK> Sigh.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: ?
<StevenK> Having new sources go to main doesn't make sense.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I thought you were sighing about me complaining about LP.
<StevenK> Nope, I'd be drinking.
<StevenK> :-P
<Fujitsu> Haha,
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: for everything or just the PPA's ?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: PPAs no longer have components. I'm talking primary archive here.
<Fujitsu> ./
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<Fujitsu> (sorry, cleaning keyboard, expect random characters occasionally)
<imbrandon> btw they STILL havent cleaned my /pool out /me is getting a bit irritated abut that
<jdong> imbrandon: yeah hobbsee just accepted x264 (again) and it goes from source NEW right to main :)
<jdong> yay!
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'm not sure if they actually get cleaned.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Keyboards should have a switch. :-)
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: wtf woudl be the point of deleting them then? heh
<imbrandon> they are still apt-getable
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh, still apt-getable? That sounds like a bug.
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> They should at least be gone from Packages/Sources.
<imbrandon> iirc they arent
<StevenK> Yeah, I need to file a ticket to get my PPA emptied
<Fujitsu> (wow, a PPA bug. New.)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: No, no. "Completly unexpected"
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh i did ~2 weeks ago, they got marked "deleted" on the UI
<StevenK> :-P
<imbrandon> in 24 hours, but still in the /pool
<StevenK> Maybe the Janitor just assigns random untouched bugs to the packages.
<imbrandon> taking up my 1GB of quota :) ( and cluttering my pool )
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Now now, you're employed by them now.
<imbrandon> bah, i guess i'll just use my 128 mb ipod shuffle knockoff for the diskimage
<StevenK> Hah
<StevenK> "What's this song, Brandon? It sounds broken."
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> as long as i dont name it something.{wma,mp3} the player wont try to play it
<imbrandon> :)
<jdong> hahaha
<jdong> StevenK: that's hip hop. hip hop. it's supposed to be that way.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Hahaha.
<imbrandon> plus i got it for free the other day , might as well put it to use, its too cheap to give to someone without feeling bad :)
<imbrandon> and i have real iPod(s) so no need for it to actualy play music :)
<StevenK> jdong: Muahaha
<StevenK> Maybe Brandon can sell his encrypted data to record labels and make a killing.
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> that would be sweet
<imbrandon> "brandons backup ssh keys sound like the next pDiddy"
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, updated version of the goom2k4 debdiff for libvisual-plugins. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual-plugins.tar.bz2
<jdong> it's just Diddy now. The P interferes with the ability for his audience to pronounce the name.
<imbrandon> whats the shelf life on flash ( usbkey ) storage ?
<StevenK> Well, you both have roughly the same amount of musical talent.
<StevenK> jdong: And you know this why? :-P
<jdong> StevenK: no comment ;-)
 * StevenK belts jdong with the 5th Amendment
<jdong> lol I kinda have a slight rap addiction ;-)
<jdong> it's catchy.
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: cool, hey do you have anywhere else to put those? comcast dosent like your server for some reason and my AT&T dsl dosent get installe dfor another few ( ~10 ) days
<StevenK>  /ignore jdong ALL
 * Fujitsu strangles jdong.
<jdong> imbrandon: gasp, Comcast would NEVER do anything to interrupt traffic!
<StevenK> :-P
<Fujitsu> I HATE rap.
<DarkMageZ> oh.. forgot that comcast are a bunch of commies. no i don't have anywhere else.
<imbrandon> jdong: heh, man i got so fed up with it yesterday i ordered AT&T dsl :)
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok can you give me a consolidated list of all your ( current against -2 ) patches/diffs etc, and i'll ssh into another connects and grab them all at once
<jdong> DarkMageZ: now now, forging TCP RST packets is just "delaying" the traffic so that "less volume" users don't get "crowded out" by evil evil bittorrent users
<Fujitsu> When did DebianMaintainerField appear? I've just realised I should be following it in my security uploads, but am not quite sure which releases it is needed in.
<Fujitsu> jdong: Naturally.
<DarkMageZ> jdong, ... it's http... comcast are communists.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: edgy iirc
<StevenK> Fujitsu: >= Feisty, I think
<Fujitsu> Noooo.
<imbrandon> yea feisty
<Fujitsu> I thought it was Edgy, but I could be wrong.
 * Fujitsu goes with Feisty.
<StevenK> You say Edgy, and then I say Feisty, and you switch. What the?
<imbrandon> it was just after edgy released, we just talked about it in edgy but not enforced till feisty
<StevenK> The binary packages were mangled in Edgy, though, right?
<Fujitsu> Binary packages have been mangled for quite a while.
<imbrandon> erm yea i think maybe at the end
<nixternal> lets also not forget that comcast does a) blocks usenet stuff and b) doesn't provide a usenet account anymore
<nixternal> bastages
 * nixternal waits for FIOS
<StevenK> What's a bastage?
<imbrandon> bastard diritive
<minghua> And what's a diritive?
<nixternal> ubuntu :p
<StevenK> derivative isn't spelled 'diritive'
<jdong> minghua: it's d/dx when drunk.
<pwnguin> directive, or derivitive?
<imbrandon> yea plus i loved my kc.rr.com acount, 10mb down and 1mb up, reality, but comcast is 1.5 /384 IF i'm lucky, at&t said i'm getting 6mb and 1mb
<jdong> imbrandon: around my place Comcast is lightning fast (>5MB/s) during the day and nearly dead at peak hours
<jdong> imbrandon: they lure in a lot of customers with their burst speeds
<nxvl> fontconfig's changelog has lost entrys
<nixternal> imbrandon: with comcrap I have 8mb down, 1mb up
<StevenK> jdong: Yeah, it's all these "bastages" downloading "diritives"
<minghua> nxvl: Huh?  Which ones?
 * StevenK pokes fun of nixternal and imbrandon in one fell swoop
<jdong> RST!
<nxvl> minghua: the first ubuntu entry is a merge
<imbrandon> nixternal / jdong : yea but i also have 2 dvrs in the house too and that kills the bandwidth with on-demand crap
 * nixternal trips StevenK 
<imbrandon> StevenK: heh
<nxvl> minghua: so there MUST be some entry loses
<minghua> nxvl: I see.
 * StevenK lands on nixternal's copy of Vista
<nixternal> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
 * nixternal cries
<Fujitsu> !nixternal
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<nixternal> !visternal
<Fujitsu> Hmm... I wonder...
<jdong> nixternal: don't worry you can still call the genuine activation hotline for a replacement copy!
<nxvl> imbrandon: did you have any new task for me?
<Fujitsu> !fujitsu]
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fujitsu] - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> !fujitsu
<nixternal> jdong: thanks for the save!
<StevenK> Hah
<Fujitsu> !fujitsu
<ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
<Fujitsu> I'm sure it was there.
<Fujitsu> So it is.
<Fujitsu> !-fujitsu
<ubotu> fujitsu is <alias> nixternal - added by LongPointyStick on 2007-11-12 04:16:30
<nixternal> ahh, you are with me ey? :)
<Fujitsu> Ehem.
<nixternal> go figure
<jdong> he is you.
<nixternal> !-nixternal
<ubotu> nixternal aliases: visternal, fujitsu - added by Hobbsee on 2007-05-31 09:32:53
<Fujitsu> jdong: dThat I am.
<Fujitsu> -d
<nixternal> haha, damn her
<minghua> nxvl: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/f/fontconfig/ seems to have a bunch of old changelogs.
<StevenK> jdong: Yeah, but they won't give him a Bill Gates signed copy. :-P
<jdong> StevenK: FYI it's called the Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Limited Numbered Signature Edition.
<nixternal> jesus
<imbrandon> nxvl: hrm, not really, i think your honestly past the point of "getting tasks" as you know where to look for things to fix, more just need help on using the tools to actualy fix them, i would sugest looking on LP for things with patches or almost ready patches and getting them ready for the sponsors-queue and poke me when you hit bumps
<imbrandon> nxvl: want some LP urls?
<StevenK> jdong: I said it before, *how* do you know this?
<StevenK> jdong: You have a rap and crack addiction?
<jdong> StevenK: haha I'm a nerd, remember? :)
<StevenK> Oh wait, tautolgy
<nixternal> ya, jdong it should be against the law to remember something like that
<nixternal> and you listen to crap music
<jdong> nixternal: I guess I ridicule it a bit too much :)
<Fujitsu> +1 nixternal, on both counts.
<imbrandon> ubuntu + serial + crack + keygen , on bittorrent ftw
<jdong> haha
<nixternal> anyone feel like giving a KDE 4 talk, Developing Kubuntu talk, and an Open Education talk for my today?
<jdong> can't download it with comcast though.
<imbrandon> jdong: you can download it , just not seed it
<imbrandon> :)
<nixternal> jdong: you can download with comcrap, you just can't seed
<jdong> yay like birth control!
<nxvl> imbrandon: well, i have made some FTBFS, reported some other with enougth information, and do also some merges, and also i don't simply past the task, i keep doing them as i do the new ones
<nixternal> Hank Williams Jr. & Kid Rock- Naked Women and Beer.ogg                    100% 4649KB 664.1KB/s   00:07
<nixternal> that song rocks!
<jdong> and *I* listen to crap music.
<Fujitsu> nxvl: You made some FTBFS? That sounds bad...
<nixternal> Bosephus is far from crap music
<nxvl> s/made/fix/
<nxvl> Fujitsu: :D
<imbrandon> nxvl: great, thats the way to do it, basicly its just tons of practice at this point untill you come accross corner cases
<imbrandon> and in ubuntu that seems to be about every 5th package :)
<StevenK> Now now
<imbrandon> ;)
<nxvl> imbrandon: thats why i ask you for task all the time, so i can work on more things, not to stop working on the last and step to the other
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok can you give me a consolidated list of all your ( current against -2 ) patches/diffs etc, and i'll ssh into another connects and grab them all at once
<imbrandon> nxvl: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com has lots of fun TODO links :)
 * StevenK uploads two packages just before the publisher.
<nxvl> imbrandon: i look in there al the time :D
<nxvl> s/al/all/g
<imbrandon> nxvl: right, thats why i say your on the right track, just keep on keepin on
<nxvl> i have work with some debchecks already
<imbrandon> most of the stuff is just boring stuff to do the same thing over and over
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, there are only 2 files. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual.debdiff & libvisual-plugins.tar.bz2
<StevenK> Sigh. Who's bright idea was this name: libgwenhywfar
<nxvl> what are uehs and how they work?
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok sounds good, i'll get to those before i sleep
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm sorry for the size of the plugins one. but the majority of that is cleaning up the 90_autoreconf...
<imbrandon> nxvl: its what checks all the debian/watch files for new upstream versions iirc
<DarkMageZ> imbrandon, from 4.4MB to 653.1KB.
<imbrandon> nxvl: i *think* Fujitsu is the author of that script, he could probably correct me if i'm off
<Fujitsu> I didn't write it, but I corrected the English and made various other changes.
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> DarkMageZ: cool ok
<imbrandon> StevenK: dont you keep a crypted fs on a usb device, any scripts or things i should look outfor when setting mine up? i'm probably gonna have ~/.gnupg/secring.gpg and friends symlinked to the fs so when its mounted ..... etc
<StevenK> imbrandon: Crypted FS yes, but I don't have anything like GPG key on it
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> i'm basicly trying to make my key safer but portable between a few systems here in the house
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> e.g. not have the key on each box but still accessable on each box if i want it
<imbrandon> same with ssh
<imbrandon> ( plus works as a good backup , cd-r shelflife sucks )
 * Fujitsu has some CD-Rs burnt 8 years ago that still work flawlessly.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but i also have some burned 3 years ago that i can barely read
<imbrandon> heh
<nxvl> imbrandon: i copy it on all my systems using secure copy
<imbrandon> most cd-r's have a ~5 year shelf life iirc
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Learning from Cody's mistakes?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: nah, i've always only needed it on one machine, but lately i've been having more than one box i sit at
<imbrandon> and copying ~.gnupg ~.ssh to each box, even in my own house , just seems wrong
 * Fujitsu is boring and has his keys on one machine, with crypto-LVM.
<imbrandon> yea currently i only have them on hood ( my main box ) and a cd-r in safe deposit box at the bank ( case of hdd crash )
<nxvl> btw
<StevenK> ... Why 'hood'?
<nxvl> can someone take a look at Bug #173088 and soponsor it please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173088 in apt-proxy "Merge apt-proxy-1.9.36.1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173088
<Fujitsu> imbrandon in da hood.
<imbrandon> StevenK: its a startrek ship name ;)
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I was just thinking that.
<Fujitsu> s/hood/'hood/
<imbrandon> heh
<nxvl> also on Bug #156047
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
<imbrandon> member my boxen are all st ship names :)
<StevenK> imbrandon: Yeah, but there's better ships than the USS Hood. Like Excelsior, Defiant, Prometheus
<imbrandon> i already have the latter two of those
 * Fujitsu notes he hasn't seen any Star Trek.
<imbrandon> ( and quite a few others )
<StevenK> Heh, interesting that all three of those are NX-
 * minghua is with Fujitsu.
<imbrandon> also enterprise, horatio, voyager, ummmm
<Fujitsu> intrepid?
<imbrandon> i *had* a borg-cube at one time ( a dell 8u monster that looked like a borg cube ) hehe
<imbrandon> ahh yea, the out of service intrepid
<imbrandon> i should bring that name back
<StevenK> imbrandon: It should have been cube-4562 or so
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> i almost dident use prometheus though, because of SG-1's use of it
<imbrandon> but my little mipsel FON router needed a name :)
<StevenK> $OLD_WORK has a prometheus, due to being atlas' brother/cousin
<imbrandon> and currently i have an iMac sitting here with no OS or name, it might become intrepid re-incarnated
<nxvl> wow, my karma grows like 200 over the last 3 weeks :D
<imbrandon> nxvl: :)
 * Fujitsu has grown an extra 3000 or so karma in the last couple of weeks.
<imbrandon> i used to have over 20k karma, now its less than 100 last time i looked
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: They downscaled it by a factor of more than 10000 last year.
<Fujitsu> Er, -0
<geser> Fujitsu: how did you do it?
<nxvl> Fujitsu: i have only like a month maybe 2 contributing
<Fujitsu> geser: Do what?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea thats when mine dropped tons
<imbrandon> Karma:  155
<imbrandon> woot, probably the lowest core-dev :)
<geser> Fujitsu: how did you manage to increase your karma that fast
<imbrandon> you know we all bitch about the speed of LP, but has anyone used sf.net bug tracker reciently? man it CRAWLS
<Fujitsu> geser: Dealing with a lot of multi-task bugs (security), I ugess.
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: SF is special.
<imbrandon> to say the leaste
<Fujitsu> s/ugess/guess/
 * minghua doesn't consider SF to have a bug tracker.
<Fujitsu> +1 minghua
<imbrandon> heh
<minghua> It's more like a bug pit, you throw stuff in, and fish things out among a big swarm when you need it. :-)
<imbrandon> i bet if i installed adblock on sf.net it would speed it up
<nxvl> heh
<geser> Fujitsu: you are now #4 in bug management karma
<Fujitsu> geser: Haha.
 * Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> Is seb128 still on top?
 * Fujitsu imagines bdmurray will be fairly high.
<Fujitsu> And pitti. That I didn't expect.
 * Fujitsu prepares to defeat all but seb128.
<nxvl> Fujitsu: seb128 has like 4 times your karma
<Fujitsu> nxvl: Hence the last bit.
<geser> Fujitsu: pitti is an archive admin and has to close all those sync requests
 * minghua doesn't like LP's closed-algorithm karma.
<Fujitsu> geser: Ahh, true.
<geser> Fujitsu: but you are still far behind norsetto in total karma
<Burgundavia> minghua: it is that way so that sabdfl can screw with it as needed
<Fujitsu> But norsettoisagod.
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: It hasn't been stuffed with in about 12 months.
 * Fujitsu is almost on the overall karma list.
<minghua> Burgundavia: I doubt it.  But I don't really care.
<minghua> Most likely it's just as closed source as the whole LP.
<nxvl> is there any way to see the karma scores?
<LucidFox> nxvl> it's displayed on your LP user page
<Fujitsu> nxvl: They're on the owner's page, and /ubuntu/+topcontributors
<geser> wow, apport has 5500 karma in bug management
<LucidFox> hehe
<Fujitsu> geser: Pfft. It can do better.
<nxvl> wew norsetto defeat seb
<imbrandon> is there a way to link a debian bts bug to upstream like in LP ?
<Fujitsu> Launchpad Answers is somewhat overinflated.
<nxvl> imbrandon: just post the link
<nxvl> is there any way to see LP users by country?
<Fujitsu> nxvl: You can see their timezones, and might be able to google.
<nxvl> Fujitsu: yep, but if i want to check if there is a peruvian ubuntu member, can i see it?
<nxvl> or must i browse, profile by profile?
<geser> imbrandon: http://bts-link.alioth.debian.org/
<Fujitsu> nxvl: You would probably have to browse, or GOogle.
<nxvl> kind of to much work
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: you know what gets me, the lates thing in LP to bug me is branding images HAVE to be a certain size HxW , i mean hasent gd/imagemagic/$something been able to do that for years ?
<imbrandon> latest*
<imbrandon> seems like lazy coding
<Fujitsu> It's best to not have to scale it.
<Fujitsu> As that looks bad.
<imbrandon> right, but state a recomnded size, and scale others
<imbrandon> hell they arent even standard sizes, e.g. the icons are 14x14 vs 16x16 etc
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> i mean 99% of the time someone is just gonna take the image in gimp and scale it anyhow, and those that wouldent will take the time to make it the recomended sizr
<imbrandon> size
 * imbrandon gets off the soapbox
<nxvl> well, time to sleep
<nxvl> good night
<imbrandon> gnight nxvl
<Fujitsu> Night nxvl.
<imbrandon> man people can just be asses sometime
<imbrandon> s
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Who what how why whence wherefore whither?
<Fujitsu> +where
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: #bzr scrollback
 * Fujitsu isn't in there.
<imbrandon> one sec, i'll pastebin
<imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2393/
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^
<Fujitsu> Pleasant./
<imbrandon> yea seems so ...
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: and the rough part is bzr from the bzr website removes bzr-svn, but i wont be going back in there to say anything
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right, bzr-svn needs to be updated.
<imbrandon> yea seems there isnt 1.X in the bzr repo, i'll just install the latest from the bzr repo and recompile bzr-svn
<imbrandon> against it, and see if it works
<minghua> That's just unnecessary language on both sides IMHO...
<minghua> Debian's bzr-svn is 0.92 based.
<imbrandon> minghua: probably so, but i was a little ticked, that is very much restraint for me trying to stay CoC
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: No CoC over there.
 * minghua nods.
<imbrandon> CoC applies everywhere you are, blogs or anywhere
<imbrandon> if you are a member
<minghua> Even in my daily life?  I don't think so.
<imbrandon> minghua: technicly yes, its stated that way when you agree to it
<minghua> Oh...
<minghua> It probably wasn't a good idea to sign CoC after all...
<geser> minghua: simply don't get caught
 * Fujitsu grumbles at -updates vs. -security versioning.
<Fujitsu> Anybody know what I do if we have .1 in feisty-updates and gutsy-updates, and I need to perform a security update?
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea i always thought -updates should use .0.x and -security use .x
<persia> bddebian: I pretty much only play torcs, teg, chromium, spider, and vegastrike.  Sometimes I do puzzles or play cards.
<imbrandon> but thats moot now
 * persia returns to deep idle
<Fujitsu> Morning, persia.
<geser> Fujitsu: why not use .2?
<Fujitsu> geser: I'll then push .3 to -updates very rapidly, I guess.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu: why?
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: So the changes in -updates don't get reverted...
<imbrandon> umm just base .2 off the -updates version
<imbrandon> since updates is on by default
<Fujitsu> imbrandon: Erm, no.
<Fujitsu> -security is for security.
<imbrandon> right push .2 to -security based of the .1 version
<imbrandon> no regressions
<minghua> Fujitsu: sounds a stupid policy to me.
<Fujitsu> minghua: What is?
<Fujitsu> -security is for security uploads only, not rolling normal updates in too.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Can't base a -security on top of -updates.
<minghua> Fujitsu: On second though, it makes some sense.
<Fujitsu> Right.
 * white_ waves
<Fujitsu> Hey white_.
<imbrandon> heya white
<white> Fujitsu: you asked for me? :)
<RainCT> imbrandon, minghua: Â«This Code of Conduct covers your behaviour *as a member of the Ubuntu Community*, in any forum, mailing list, wiki, web site, IRC channel, install-fest, public meeting or private correspondence.Â» I understant that it only applies when you are acting in an Ubuntu related place or representing Ubuntu in some way
<minghua> I keep forgetting Ubuntu's -updates is much less strict than Debian's.
<minghua> RainCT: That's what I thought.  Thanks for the quote.
<imbrandon> RainCT: well on IRC i have a ubuntu cloak :)
<minghua> imbrandon: In my daily life I don't. :-)
<imbrandon> :)
<RainCT> :)
<DarkMageZ> anyone up for helping me with a package i'm building? the author has given me a answer to a question in coder speak and i fail @ coding. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/liquidtrixx/
<geser> DarkMageZ: what's the problem?
<DarkMageZ> the current build log = http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10677675/log . the upstream said something about the FILE pointer being a c definition not a c++ def.
<minghua> You probably need "#include <cstdlib>" or something.
<minghua> <cstdio>, it turns out.
<DarkMageZ> i'll give that a shot after this pbuilder run finishes :)
<white> Fujitsu: querys
<imbrandon> ohh i love bzr, got it working
 * RainCT also loves bzr :P
<DarkMageZ> nope. no luck on including cstdio :(
<geser> Lutin: any reason why ubuntu-archive shouldn't be subscribed to bug #163423?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 163423 in httptunnel "Please sync httptunnel 3.3+dfsg-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163423
<Lutin> geser: no reason. I requested it with requestsync, so assumed it was done
<geser> Lutin: I've subscribed u-a now
<Lutin> geser: thanks
<persia> Fujitsu: Good afternoon
<persia> LucidFox: What's the status of libwoodstox-java?  Does it still need a touch, or just a sync?
<geser> Hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey geser
<effie_jayx> hello all
<asisak> Heya MOTUs!
<DktrKranz> Heya asisak
<geser> Hi asisak
<asisak> Hey DktrKranz, geser!
<Lutin> any clue why grub has a build-depends-indep on mkisofs ?
<Hobbsee>   * control (Build-Depends): Moved e2tools, e2fsprogs and mkisofs to
<Hobbsee>     Build-Depends-Indep (they are only needed for grub-disk).
<zorg_the_false> q. is there a page with a simple explaination on how to produce patch ? i fixed some bug and would like to send the patches to the author ?
<Hobbsee>   * Provide an iso9660 CD image with grub-disk
<Hobbsee>     - control (Build-Depends): Add mkisofs.
<Hobbsee>     - rules: Uncomment and misc fixes in mkisofs commands.
<Hobbsee> Lutin: ^ help?
<Fujitsu> J
<asisak> zorg_the_false: I would recommend "man patch". I guess its use is quite straightforward
<zorg_the_false> ok ok so i go on googling :)
<zorg_the_false> asisak: any suggestion as of where i could get help ?
<zorg_the_false> beside man page :))))))))
<Lutin> Hobbsee: not much. mkisofs is in multiverse and a quick grep shows no call to mkisofs in the sources
<Hobbsee> Lutin: ouch???
<zorg_the_false> asisak: ok so google. thanks anyway :)
<pochu> !patch
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about patch - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<asisak> pochu: wrong guess :)
<pochu> !packagingguide
<ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<pochu> asisak: :)
<asisak> BTW zorg left :(
<Lutin> Hobbsee: yeah, ouch
<pochu> !packagingguide | zorg_the_false
<ubotu> zorg_the_false: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Fujitsu> I recall that we brought back the EvilÂ® cdrecord, which now provides the mkisofs.
<Hobbsee> Lutin: might want to ask whoever's doing grub, etc, these days about it
<persia> zorg_the_false: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix might help
<pochu> zorg_the_false: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
<zorg_the_false> persia: ok will look
<zorg_the_false> bye :)
<Lutin> Fujitsu: ?
<persia> ubotu: patch is Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
<Fujitsu> cdrkit is a fork of the EvilÂ® cdrecord. It was in main, and provided mkisofs in <= Feisty.
<Fujitsu> In Gutsy, IIRC, we brought back the evil one, into multiverse.
 * persia thinks this is a new definition of evil
<minghua> Fujitsu: Evil is even registered?  By whom? ;-)
<pochu> !evil
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about evil - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<Fujitsu> The Schilling cdrecord, anyway.
<Lutin> Fujitsu: well genisoimage replaces: mkisofs, but still can't get why it's in b-d-i if the sources don't need it and
<persia> minghua: Likely the Lord Lyon has a registration, if nobody else
<minghua> persia: Lord Lyon?  As in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lyon_King_of_Arms?
<persia> minghua: Right.  Last I heard, anyone who paid the fee could register a tartan with them.  I'd be surprised if nobody had yet registered the evil tartan.
<minghua> Ah, tartans.  I know Debian has one.
<minghua> persia: It's quite a obscure reference to me though.
<minghua> Chinese people don't have coat of arms, or tartans.
<persia> minghua: That's why wikipedia exists :)
<minghua> ... or should that be "coats of arms"?
<Fujitsu> minghua: Neither do most people, as far as I know.
<persia> Should init scripts work with dash, or is bash fine?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Oh.  I though all you western people got coats of arms.
<minghua> Although I'm not quite sure Australian people are "western" or not.
<persia> minghua: Only some people of European decent get them: their ancestors needed to have registered them.
<persia> s/decent/descent/
 * persia wants a grammar checker to go with the spell checker
<minghua> persia: What about you?  You are of European descent, aren't you?
<persia> minghua: I don't have one personally.
<minghua> persia: Pity.  I think coat of arms is pretty and nice to have. :-)
<persia> minghua: If you'd like one, register one :)
<minghua> Nah.  I'm bad at drawing.
<geser> persia: if possible init scripts should use /bin/sh
<persia> geser: OK.  So #!/bin/bash at the top and no obvious bashisms is a cause for comment.  Thanks.
 * persia finishes commenting on REVU, and encourages the 57 people with pending comments to get their packages in shape for the upcoming REVU day, as the relative lack of backlog likely ensures quick turnaround.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> well done, persia!
<LucidFox> Indeed.
 * TheMuso uploads a long awaited updated merge before heading to bed.
<LucidFox> TheMuso, I'm going to reupload avidemux
<persia> LucidFox: So, about libwoodstox-java: does that need work still, or is it ready to be pushed?
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Well I am not currently in a position to review it I'm sorry.
<LucidFox> it's no longer needed in REVU
<LucidFox> because the Debian version builds fine now
<persia> LucidFox: Right.  I archived it: I'm talking about bug #127595
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 127595 in ubuntu "Please sync libwoodstox-java 4.0~svn20070930-2 from Debian unstable (contrib)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127595
<LucidFox> no work needed, it can be synced as is
<geser> I've just acked it
<LucidFox> yes, I saw, thanks
<persia> nevermind.  There seems to have been other investigation since I last looked.  Thanks.
<LucidFox> Speaking of these Java libraries, what may be the reason that LP is only trying to build libhiglayout-java for i386? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhiglayout-java/1.0-2
<persia> LucidFox: Is it not architecture: all ?
<persia> More verbosely, architecture: all packages are only built for i386, as the results should work anywhere.
<persia> (this is not always the case, but that's a different bug)
 * TheMuso uploads and head to bed. Night folks.
<persia> Good night TheMuso
<geser> night TheMuso
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
<LucidFox> Ah. That explains. It _is_ architecture: all.
<LucidFox> dh_install can't rename files, can it?
<persia> LucidFox: No.  Either use install directly in debian/rules, or rename them in build: and then install with dh_install (if you choose the latter, be sure to clean in clean:
<persia> )
<minghua> persia: I think it can.
<persia> minghua: It says it can't in the manpage, and I don't see reference to rename in the changelog.  Could you point at an example package that uses dh_install to rename?
<minghua> persia: I'm reading the man page too.  It seems you are right, I must mistook it as something else.
<Kmos> there is a command in dpkg to check the .deb for not/stripped binaries?
<StevenK> Unpack it and run file on ELF binaries
<Ubulette_> grrr, damn router is crashing when I do an apt-get update in a chroot but not in the host os.
<Kmos> StevenK: thanks
<Kmos> I've this http://pastebin.com/d26727471 in Makefile.in, author should remove it ? or we need to make a patch to remove it.. ?
<james_w> Kmos: doesn't lintian warn for that?
<Kmos> james_w: nop
<Kmos> lintian -iIv nop
<Kmos> debian bug 438111
<ubotu> Debian bug 438111 in tea "tea: not handling nostrip build option (policy 10.1)" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/438111
 * persia prefers the use of dh_strip for stripping to create apport-useful ddebs, and hopes for a patch.
<james_w> maybe it's stripped binaries in -dbg packages.
<Kmos> it doesn't have -dbg and dh_strip it's used in rules
<Kmos> it's for tea package :)
<james_w> Kmos: is there an 'install' target as well? Does it depend on 'install-strip'?
<james_w> or maybe an 'install-nostrip' or similar.
<Kmos> not in rules
<Kmos> http://pastebin.com/d6210a52d
<Ubulette> persia, will you have time for prism ? last update was really tiny
<james_w> no, in the upstream Makefile
<Kmos> james_w: yes, there is.. http://pastebin.com/d26727471
<Kmos> in Makefile.in
<persia> Ubulette: actually, the last update makes prism take more time, as it needs to be tested.  I don't use most of those web applications, so I'm not a good person to test.  The packaging looks really nice: thanks for all the changes.
<james_w> Kmos: yes, rules call make install, which I guess runs that install-strip target. Is there an install-nostrip target so you could change rules to run make install-nostrip?
 * persia suggests someone web2.0'y should try prism from REVU & advocate it
<Ubulette> btw, i'll drop some of my other packages, damn too difficult to obtain sponsoring in a realistic time. it often takes more than 1 or 2 upstream releases, meaning I worked for nothing.
<Kmos> james_w: no, there isn't..
<Kmos> install-nostrip not found
<persia> Ubulette: Depends on the package.  Most upstreams aren't so fast.  Also, after having done a few, it takes fewer cycles through the queue.  To your credit, you're much more responsive to comments than many submitters.
<Ubulette> i'm doing mostly mozilla stuff. packages are huge and complex, so i'm just loosing my time if nothing gets in
<persia> Ubulette: Stuff may well get in.  Don't give up.  You just need a couple testers now, as the packaging is all clean.  Also, if you have a few packages you're working on, you might submit them in parallel: there's no reason that waiting for one should cause the others to wait.
<james_w> Kmos: if there's no install-nostrip (or no-strip) or anything then you will have to patch the upstream Makefile.
<Ubulette> I have to think about it a bit more but I think i'll drop the ball and keep only a few packages i really care about.
<persia> Ubulette: Depends on upstream churn.  After working through a couple, if upstream isn't hyperactive, you'll likely find the burden lower.
<Ubulette> persia, i'm not complaining about you, on the countrary, you helped me a lot for prism and I know you're busy. It's more a general feeling
<Kmos> james_w: yeah.. i can also talk to author to remove it ? or add a install-nostrip ?
<james_w> Kmos: the other alternative is to take advantage of the "test -z '$(STRIP)'" in the upstream target.
<james_w> Kmos: yeah, asking for an install-nostrip target is possible.
<Kmos> james_w: what about the test -z ? i can handle it in configure ?
<james_w> Kmos: actually, I'm not sure that "test -z '$(STRIP)'" is much use, it only guards part of the command.
<persia> Ubulette: Understood.  My personal guideline is have all the software I use packaged, just to get the benefits of the packaging.  I'm not so concerned about latest upstream, as long as it works for me.  If you've a bunch of software you're manually maintaining on your local system, you may as well push it.  If you're just packaging to be helpful, it's maybe better to limit your workload (unless you've lots of extra time & patience).
<Kmos> james_w: the better is to patch Makefile.in and remove the install-strip: , right ?
<james_w> Kmos: yes, I think so, but without seeing the whole Makefile.in it's hard to say what the exact fix is.
<Kmos> james_w: i'll ask author to add install-nostrip to the next version :) and patch this one
<Kmos> james_w: thanks for all
<james_w> Kmos: it's also a good idea to patch the Makefile.am as well (if there is one), otherwise it can confuse someone who is building the package using autotools.
<james_w> Kmos: no problem.
<Kmos> james_w: the Makefile.am doesn't have anything about install-{no}strip
<james_w> Kmos: interesting
<Kmos> :)
<Hobbsee> rexbron: any chance you could use a little thought, and grow up w.r.t your quit message?
 * rexbron has been scolded
<Hobbsee> rexbron: people do actually follow it, at times.
<rexbron> O.o
<Hobbsee> "i wonder what this does.  uh oh"
<Hobbsee> (forums are having a lot of fun, with people doing the same thing)
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, I don't like Kmos quit message atm
<Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<Fujitsu> bluekuja: That's what I said.
<bluekuja> Fujitsu, it's an indirect offense versus us
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: what is it?
<Hobbsee> oh, the software that ubuntu wants thing?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes, about getdeb
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: he can be deluded into thinking that, if he wishes.
<geser> Hobbsee: "Ubuntu "Software you want" - www.GetDeb.net"
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: it's arguably not going to break their systems
<Hobbsee> OTOH, if you didn't want the software in ubuntu, you wouldn't be running it, so it sounds rather narrow minded.
<bluekuja> yeah, fully agreed
<Ubulette> bluekuja: hi. a new seamonkey is out. I've updated my package for the 3rd time, sadly, it's still not in. Sorry, but I'm sick of this. I think I will drop it.
<Kmos> bluekuja :)
<Fujitsu> Kmos: ........ why are you smiling?
<bluekuja> Ubulette, no, don't say that... please
<bluekuja> Ubulette, this is not a good period for me....I have tons of stuff to do
<Kmos> Fujitsu: unless tell me directly, told Hobbsee that :)
<Fujitsu> -EPARSE
<Hobbsee> Kmos: try again.  that's not valid english.
<bluekuja> Ubulette, plus it would be a nice thing to open a bug and ask for sponsorship there directly
<bluekuja> Ubulette, so I can track things better
<Kmos> Hobbsee: not my primary lang..
<Hobbsee> Kmos: i realise, but please rephrase it so we can undersatnd you :)
<Kmos> "Why not bluekuja told me directly and told Hobbsee that"
<Hobbsee> Kmos: otherwise you may as well speak to us in portugese - it'll make the same amount of sense :)
<Kmos> Hobbsee: I born in germany :) but I don't talk german
<Hobbsee> Kmos: i saw from your wiki page.
<Kmos> :)
<bluekuja> Kmos, it doesnt matter to who I said that, the fact is your quit message is not nice and I see it as a bit offensive versus me and other developers
<Ubulette> bluekuja, that was my plan once the 1st release is in. ie, pushing updates to revu. the 1st iteration is *huge*, you've probably discovered that the hard way. It's almost a fully new package, compared to iceape.
<bluekuja> Ubulette, are you able to update the branch to the latest release?
<Ubulette> bluekuja, asac proposed me to sponsor it but you wanted it to do it so i'm waiting
<Kmos> bluekuja: why don't you private with me and told me that first? i also participate in ubuntu and debian, and it doesn't offense me.. so it's better to tell things to people directly
<wraund> hai guys
<wraund> how stable is 8.04 atm
<bluekuja> Kmos, I usually prefer to say things publicly
<wraund> im thinking about betaing
<LucidFox> wraund> Very unstable, obviously
<wraund> LucidFox: aww
<LucidFox> But testing is welcome
<Kmos> bluekuja: when they are part of public =)
<Ubulette> bluekuja, i'd like you to complete with what you have, if it's possible for you.
<wraund> LucidFox: is that 'oh dear god it doesnt boot' unstable, or 'damnit gtk failed' unstable
<bluekuja> Ubulette, ok, new revisions to branch?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: your quit message is public.  i fail to see how it is a private matter.
<Kmos> bluekuja: but i'll change my irc quit =)
<bluekuja> Ubulette, tarball alwais the same?
<bluekuja> Hobbsee, exactly
<Kmos> Hobbsee: right
<Ubulette> bluekuja, not for 1.1.6. keep what you already have.
<bluekuja> Ubulette, ok, I do it now
<LucidFox> It should boot and mostly work, but expect small glitches and lack of polishment here and there
<Ubulette> I'll push my 1.1.7 changes afterwards in my .dev branch
<wraund> LucidFox: so no THAT unstable then
<Fujitsu> It has been commented on a number of times while you were not here (obviously, because it's normally noticed once you leave).
<LucidFox> Well, unstable as in "Debian unstable"
<Fujitsu> wraund: There's no guarantee of that.
<wraund> Fujitsu: i know im talking about atm
<Fujitsu> It's still quite allowed to eat your filesystem for breakfast, for example.
<wraund> ee
<wraund> i like my filesystem :(
 * Kmos irc quit msg changed
<Hobbsee> wraund: if you have to ask how stable it is, you don't want to run it.
<bluekuja> Kmos, you should move contributing to getdeb then stopping your "work" here
<Hobbsee> bluekuja: oy.
<bluekuja> Kmos, if your "idea of freedom" is satisfied there
<Kmos> bluekuja: isn't a idea of freedom, but a way to participate
<bluekuja> Kmos, actually it is. It seems you are *not* able to find the right freedom in our archive
<bluekuja> Kmos, so you contribute to getdeb or whatever
<bluekuja> Kmos, question here is: what's wrong with our policies?
<bluekuja> Kmos, and why do you think there is no freedom in our archive?
<Kmos> bluekuja: not wrong, i just don't have status to do what I want =)
<Kmos> i don't said there isn't freedom in archive
<Hobbsee> . o O { odd, that }
<LucidFox> Lintian complains about the "Apps" section in debian/menu - where can I find the updated menu structure?
<Kmos> what Lamego says, isn't my words
<Fujitsu> LucidFox: s/Apps/Applications/
<Kmos> LucidFox: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070704.164523.5cb7c52a.en.html
<bluekuja> Kmos, yes, but if you state you contribute to it, you actually accept his idea
<bluekuja> Kmos, and you follow his words in every point
<Kmos> bluekuja: no. i just want to see my things published..
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: i *think* what you're looking for is http://debian-news.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2869
<Kmos> and that don't private me from participate in ubuntu/debian
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and they have to be good enough to be published, like with writing books.
<Hobbsee> s/private/prevent/ presumably.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: that's not an good example, there are lot of published books that are really bad.
<bluekuja> Kmos, sorry, but if your stuff cannot get published here, it means they are not good enough
<Kmos> i'm not saying everything there is good quality
<Hobbsee> Kmos: yeah, but any publisher with a reputation for quality will not publish rubbish.
<Kmos> i just do my part and be happy with that
<Hobbsee> Kmos: and ubuntu wants to have a reputation for quality.
<Kmos> bluekuja: if you think my stuff is rubbish.. that's your point of view.
<bluekuja> Kmos, it seems I'm not the only one...
<Hobbsee> Kmos: whether your packages fit policy or not is not subjective, contrary to what you may think.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: it is objective.  see debian policy, and the debian packages guide, and make your packages fit that.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i try my best..
<james_w> I don' think that's the only reason why the work is not in Ubuntu.
<bluekuja> Ubulette, started building
<james_w> consider the reasons people give why the contribute to Ubuntu rather than Debian.
<Hobbsee> Kmos: can i suggest that you actually retain information, if you want to try your best?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: your client should log, if you need to re-read any part of it.
<james_w> and as the policies are nearly identical they are not technical reasons of package quality
<bluekuja> Ubulette, gonna check some minor stuff, and then it's ready
<Hobbsee> james_w: unfortunately, there is a base standard for debian/ubuntu packages.  if packages consistently do not make this standard, then they will not be accepted in - whether from one person, or from many.  This is not comprimisable.
<james_w> Hobbsee: I don't disagree. I'm just saying that it's not the only reason why someone would choose to contribute elsewhere.
<Hobbsee> james_w: oh, true.  i wasnt' sure if you were disagreeing or not, my statement was partly to kmos too.
<Kmos> james_w: the problem here is me =)
<james_w> Hobbsee: oh no, I totally agree that we need minimum levels of quality, sorry for not being clear.
<Hobbsee> james_w: we have lots of trouble with new packages and licences too - and stuff will get repeatedly thrown back, usuallyf rom the same people.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: if you see my progress in the last weeks, you can see I've retained more "information" :)
<Hobbsee> Kmos: hurrah!
<Hobbsee> Kmos: keep at it.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: i'm trying..
<Ubulette> bluekuja, good.
<LucidFox> I've uploaded a new package to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inkblot
<frenchy> Hi MOTUs ... you guys don't deal with troubleshooting translation issues in my package, do you?  Sorry if this seems like an "ask to ask".
<asisak> frenchy: I guess we deal.
<asisak> !ask | frenchy
<ubotu> frenchy: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<frenchy> I am upstream and am having some issues with the German translation that someone has done for me.
<frenchy> The translation "according to him" doesn't work.
<frenchy> The mo file get installed.
<LucidFox> Also reuploaded an updated package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux . There are known Lintian warnings, I didn't fix them to reduce the delta with debian-multimedia.org, and I can explain them if needed.
<frenchy> Is there anything else that I need to check>
<frenchy> ?
<LucidFox> frenchy> What package?
<frenchy> Me TV (me-tv), it's on REVU so not an official one, yet.
<frenchy> The version up there does not have the translations in it.
<frenchy> I wanted to know if it's something I'm doing wrong before I promoted it.
<LucidFox> Hmm, I'll build and check.
<frenchy> If I'm off topic here then let me know.  This channel has always provided an excellent service for me.
<frenchy> LucidFox:  Ummm ... I can upload a newer version if you want. The version up there does not have the translations in it.
<LucidFox> Well, I'm not a MOTU, so my word hardly matters :)
<frenchy> LucidFox: That's ok, this is a question about packaging that anyone can answer.  Are you German?
<LucidFox> No, Russian, but I could run it with a German locale
<frenchy> Ta,  excuse my noobness but how do you do that?
<james_w> frenchy: a good debugging aid may be to set a german locale and then strace your program as you start it.
<frenchy> Don't worry, that was a stupid question that I can read about myself.
<frenchy> I just didn't know that it was an easy thing to do.
<james_w> frenchy: I think 'LANG=de program' will work.
<frenchy> james_w:  Oh yeah, on the command line before I run it.  Ok ta, never thought of that.
<azeem> hrm, if I have a box running dapper, can I directly update it to gutsy?
<james_w> frenchy: and the strace would show what message catalogs it is trying to open, and so may show that is is looking for them in a different place than you would expect, or something like that.
<frenchy> james_w: Ok, will try that, thank you for your time.  I should be good-to-go from here.  Excellent work guys.
<james_w> frenchy: good luck.
<Hobbsee> azeem: if you want do deal with some dep changes, you can upgrade directly, yes. i'ts not supported though
<Hobbsee> azeem: as in, you'll have to transition by hand
<azeem> ok
<azeem> thx
<zul> morning
<LucidFox> So, "XbuildY" won't prevent the auto-syncer from syncing, but "XubuntuY" will?
<Kmos> LucidFox: yes
<cyberix> What is get-orig-source expected to do?
<cyberix> Is there a proper guide or even definition for it available somewhere?
<LucidFox> fetch the upstream tarball from the Internet and repack it if necessary
<norsetto> cyberix: get and prepare the upstream tarball
<cyberix> Who is supposed to run it and when?
<norsetto> cyberix: maintainer/sponsor when preparing an update and some automated tools when running some checks
<cyberix> Is it common to "just wget" a tar ball with that?
<cyberix> and rename it
<norsetto> cyberix: your mileage vary, from just that to perform md5sum checks and repackaging
<norsetto> cyberix: in debian they may also use it to dfsg a package
<cyberix> I need to repackage a zip. I'm just not sure were the zip should exist before repackaging.
<cyberix> Then you tell me I should get it from Internet.
<cyberix> And I'm not sure, if that makes sense
<norsetto> cyberix: well, it can indeed be used to repackage a zip
<wraund> Hobbsee: i do want to run a version on my laptop, stable or unstable. i just want my data to be preserved so i like to know what level of 'unstable' it is
<wraund> very or little
<cyberix> I could use wget to download the zip, but then I'd have to build-depend on wget, right?
<cyberix> I should probably also check md5sum of the downloaded package, so the archive cannot be changed to something else.
<Lounge> i have created a sensors-applet_1.7.12+dfsg.deb with nvidia support for i386, can i upload it somewhere?
<white> what's the Easy Hosting Control Panel from ubuntu?
<frenchy> james_w: Ok I found numerous little issues that have gotten me so much closer.  It's now trying to load the me-tv.mo but from /usr/local/share/... rather than /usr/share/....  Is this something that I need do fix when calling ./autogen.sh
<Lounge> anyone know where i can upload this package?
<norsetto> Lounge: we are at 1.8.2-1 in hardy
<RainCT> Lounge: Launchpad PPA
<Lounge> RainCT: aww thnx
<james_w> frenchy: does it look in /usr/share/ after /usr/local/share/ ?
<frenchy> james_w: Nope.
<james_w> hmm.
<frenchy> james_w: Not for the me-tv.mo.
<james_w> frenchy: can you put the strace log on a pastebin?
<james_w> frenchy: 'strace -o logfile' if you don't have one already.
<frenchy> james_w: I think that it might have something to do with PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR.
<frenchy> james_w: And not setting it.
<james_w> frenchy: are you using gettext?
<frenchy> james_w: It's is set to /usr/local/share/locale ... I've just got to work out where to set it.  Sorry, I should've checked this before bothering you again.  Yes gettext.
<james_w> I would have thought that would take care of this.
<cyberix> How do I check md5sum from a Makefile? Do I have to create a separate script to do that? What should I do, if the checking fails?
<james_w> frenchy: where is  PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR used? In your .c files somewhere?
<norsetto> rainct: don't you have a pbuilder !?
<frenchy> james_w: In the main.cc .. bindtextdomain (GETTEXT_PACKAGE, PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR);
<RainCT> norsetto: of course I do, why?
<james_w> frenchy: and you use autotools?
<norsetto> RainCT: bug 161760 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161760 in vips "Please sync vips 7.12.5-2 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161760
<frenchy> james_w: Yes.
<james_w> frenchy: I would look at autotools then. It may be an argument missing from the ./configure call or similar.
<james_w> frenchy: also how is the german translation installed? (or how was it installed on your machine)?
<RainCT> norsetto: ahh. Kmos remembered me about that bug as vips is a build depdendency for another package I think, and he got it build first
<RainCT> norsetto: also builds fine here
<frenchy> james_w: I'm ashamed to admit, I don't know.  I'm looking now.  It was done by Anjuta.
<norsetto> rainct: ok
<james_w> frenchy: is the binary in /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin?
<frenchy> /usr/bin
<james_w> frenchy: that's odd then.
<Hobbsee> wraund: one could never guarentee that all data will be safe, using mostly-untested software
<apachelogger> persia: Why not? All of our official desktops support freedesktop desktop files, plus https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Appendix -> menu.ex is used to add your package to the Debian menu. Ubuntu does not use Debian menu files but uses the [WWW] freedesktop.org standard [WWW] .desktop files.
<Kmos> http://sockmel.bononia.it/~zack/homepage-field/
<Kmos> nice one
<frenchy> james_w: Once again I thank you for your help.  It has become clear to me that this is really an upstream issue that I need to deal with.  And it is "I" that needs to get me some education.
<james_w> frenchy: pas de problÃ¨me
<norsetto> apachelogger: some users (for instance Fluxbox) do not use GDE or KDE and rely on the Debian menu to launch desktop applications
<cyberix> Were should I place the archive I created with get-orig-source?
<cyberix> Were should get-orig-source place it?
<apachelogger> norsetto: yeah, but should I treat it as necessary as a desktop file in terms of advocacy?
<apachelogger> i.e. I'd not advocate a package without desktop file but would without a menu file
<norsetto> apachelogger: yes, I know what you mean and I was of your idea, until I too discovered that there are users which rely on the Debian menu indeed
<norsetto> apachelogger: I must also plead guilty since in my new packages I did  not include a menu myself until I passed them over to Debian ....
 * apachelogger is wondering how other distros solve that problem
<norsetto> apachelogger: I read it somewhere that another distro is thinking to adopt the debian Menu too (forgot which one though)
<apachelogger> hm
 * norsetto cannot be beaten when vagueness is concerned
<apachelogger> anyway, a guideline on this would be good. do we have to insist on the debian menu? do we not have to, but should we suggest to include it? should we just not care?
<norsetto> apachelogger: persia proposed some guidelines for discussion not long ago, let me fecth a link, it should be there
<Kmos> norsetto: i set you the owner of gelemental ITP on debian =)
<norsetto> kmos: oh, don't worry, unless something unexpected happens will be in debichem soon, but thx anyway
<Kmos> :)
<norsetto> apachelogger: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
<apachelogger> norsetto: thanks
<jdong> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264/1:0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu2/+build/459258
<jdong> what does failed to upload mean?
<bddebian> Heya gang
 * apachelogger is wondering how to dput when he can't access the .changes on revu
<RainCT> apachelogger: with the .dsc
<apachelogger> RainCT: one can do that? Oo
<RainCT> apachelogger: of course, or at least with dget it works
<apachelogger> well, with get it works
<apachelogger> but how to upload to new queue after revuing?
<RainCT> what do you mean?
<apachelogger> documenation on post-becoming motu is kinda bad -.-
<RainCT> ah ok
<bluekuja> apachelogger, why do you ask that?
<bluekuja> apachelogger, you should debuild the package on your own
<bddebian> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
<bluekuja> bddebian, exactly
<bddebian> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -k<my key> :-)
<bluekuja> apachelogger, dpkg-source the package and debuild it
<bluekuja> you don't need REVU .changes
<apachelogger> ha!
<apachelogger> there we go
<apachelogger> thanks :)
<bluekuja> apachelogger, and anyway that's a security thing
<Hobbsee> RainCT: erm.  down with the crack pipe.
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: you need the .changes file to upload
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: yeah, i dont think it exists.
<apachelogger> ok, now it's getting confusing -.-
<apachelogger> Hobbsee: I have to create the .changes, that's right, isn't it?
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: yes
<bluekuja> apachelogger, debuild does that for you..
<apachelogger> ok
<Hobbsee> apachelogger: the .changes will let you dput it anywhere
<bluekuja> apachelogger, don't do a binary upload
<apachelogger> yeah, true, just wanted to get that right :)
<bluekuja> apachelogger, source only for Ubuntu
<bluekuja> apachelogger, you check that in the .changes anyway
<Hobbsee> ah, a much better quit message
<bluekuja> ahah
<bluekuja> apachelogger, for merges remember to use -v
<bluekuja> apachelogger, if noone told that you already
<bluekuja> *to
<bddebian> Damn the games team is frustrating :-(
<bluekuja> bddebian, y?
<bddebian> It's always so quiet :-(
<bluekuja> oh :/
<norsetto> apachelogger: you remember bug 161835 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161835 in contactsmenu "[Package Removal Request] contactsmenu should be removed from hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161835
<apachelogger> norsetto: ah, yes
<apachelogger> transitional or, or no transitional, that is the question
<apachelogger> norsetto: what do you think, is it worth having a transitional package?
<norsetto> apachelogger: I think a transitional would be a good idea
<apachelogger> so let's go with that
<apachelogger> norsetto: do I have to create such a thingy?
<norsetto> apachelogger: yes, it should be a binary package of the new source package
 * apachelogger adds that to this todo
<norsetto> rainct: some people are actually offended if you use wtf in a email to a mailing list (just warning you if you get some nasty email about it)
<RainCT> norsetto: with wth too? :P
<norsetto> rainct: quien sabe ...
<RainCT> heh
<soren> norsetto: The get offended by you almost saying fuck? Seriously?
<soren> norsetto: s/The/They/
<norsetto> soren: moralists are one of the worst species on earth my friend ...
<Hobbsee> soren: in some cases :P
<soren> I'll *never* understand people.
 * Hobbsee doesn't like mass expletives, where expletives are every second or third word, for eg.
<Hobbsee> don't you have a bigger vocabularly than that?
<soren> Hobbsee: Agreed, but still..
<Hobbsee> yeah true.
<soren> Hobbsee: This one pissed me off, though: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2007-October/000881.html
<james_w> hi jelmer.
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152627 now upload?
<Hobbsee> soren: yeah, that's kinda classy
<RainCT> soren: lol
<Hobbsee> soren: did you write back "what, you mean to say that you *want* ubuntu to have sex with you?" <end of mail>
<soren> Hobbsee: No, I was having a good day :)
<Hobbsee> soren: bonus points if you can manage to embarrass the guy somehow in the process.
<RainCT> what an idiot..
<apachelogger> hrrhrr
<Hobbsee> soren: good day or not, that's still what you should reply :)
<soren> fwiw, this is my response: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2007-October/000889.html
<Hobbsee> heh :)
<Hobbsee> soren: sounds like angrykeyboarder.
<soren> Hobbsee: Gah..
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> anger management problems, only solved by the application of a large brick.
<soren> Hobbsee: Anyone who excuses their being angry and offensive by saying that they've done it before...
<Hobbsee> soren: yeah well.
<Hobbsee> soren: this of course generalises to the "i have $mental illness, so should not be held accountable", which i then call buillshit on, and get in trouble for doing.
<Hobbsee> -i
<soren> Hobbsee: I think I started writing a reply to him 10 times, but never could strike a good balance between telling him off and setting a good example in the process, so I gave up.
<Hobbsee> heh
<ScottK> Personally, I think dendrobates was far to accomodating with him
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<Hobbsee> morning ScottK
 * ScottK would have just unsubbed him and said please come only if you get some manners.
<soren> We decided that he must have learned English for listening to ganster rap.
 * ScottK isn't buying that one.
<soren> s/for/by/
<soren> wtf is wrong with my English today?
<ScottK> Personally, I think appropriate language is very situational.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> well, of course
 * ScottK used to actually be a sailor and still swears like one where it's appropriate.
<zul> ScottK: dont you mean all the time?
<ScottK> No.  Not quite.
<Hobbsee> there doesn't seem to be an equivalent for "dude...that's fucked" in politer terms.
<Hobbsee> on crack doesn't do it.
<Hobbsee> and nothing else comes close
<zul> Hobbsee: "dude...that's quite silly"
<ScottK> On Thursday, someone showed me this image: http://tinyurl.com/6kuoz and said they saw it and thought of me.
 * ScottK already has a coffee mug with that on it.
<Hobbsee> hahahaha :D
 * Hobbsee prefers the one on seveas' wall, though
<ScottK> ?
<zul> ScottK: seen that before
<Hobbsee> http://hobbsee.mailbolt.com/helpdeskwarning.png
<zul> Hobbsee: lol
<mok0> Hobbsee: I thought this was a friendly forum.
<Hobbsee> mok0: it's not a forum.  this is irc.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I thought this was a friendly IRC channel
<Hobbsee> mok0: but sure, this is a friendly irc channel :)
<mok0> Hobbsee: Phew. I was afraid it was a help desk
<man-di> mok0: You havent been in an unfriendly irc channel yet, do you?
<mok0> man-di: Not in #ubuntu-*
<LucidFox> So, when is the next REVU day that persia was talking about?
<ScottK> LucidFox: Generally Mondays.
<LucidFox> Ah.
<norsetto> apachelogger: I would keep the Conflicts and Replaces, you can use (<< ${source:Version}) for the Conflicts
<ScottK> norsetto: Although binary version is preferred (for Debian anyway - so we may as well use it).
<norsetto> scottk: isn't that for any to any? In this case is any to all
<ScottK> The binary conflicts is preferred in Debian to be compatible with their bin NMU process.  AFAIK it doesn't matter arch all/any.
<apachelogger> so
<apachelogger> norsetto: ScottK: what to do?
<norsetto> apachelogger: its always confusing me, that why I use http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU when in doubt. But if scottk says its ok with binary than its ok  with binary
<ScottK> apachelogger: For Ubuntu, the source version conlicts is fine (although I think the latest lintian will whine).
 * apachelogger will use binary then :)
<ScottK> apachelogger: norsetto is right.  For arch any -> all you should use source.
<ScottK> norsetto: Good resource that one.  Thanks for pointing it out.
<apachelogger> meh
<ScottK> apachelogger: Your any -> all case is explicitly  addressed on that page.  Sorry for leading your astray.
<apachelogger> can happen :)
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152688
<norsetto> apachelogger: you don't need to version the Replaces
 * apachelogger should have gone to bed earlier -.-
<Hobbsee> ich auch.
<apachelogger> hehe :)
<man-di> Hobbsee must be really tired, she starts speaking german...
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152691
<Hobbsee> man-di: some phrases i find faster in german than i do in english
<geser> mv Hobbsee /dev/bed && sleep 8h
<Hobbsee> hehe
<apachelogger> 8h that's about the amount I got after 2 days :P
 * Nafallo has been in bed all day.
<norsetto> apachelogger: seems like you are missing a change in the changelog :-)
<apachelogger> oh
<apachelogger> typo
<apachelogger> norsetto: but what change is missing?
<norsetto> apachelogger: you mean, the homepage change is covered by that?
<apachelogger> norsetto: * Adaption to latest packaging standards
<norsetto> apachelogger: yes, that for you covers the homepage change? (its adaptation by the way)
<apachelogger> yes, that is intent to cover that change as well .... doesn't adaptation and adaption mean kinda the same?
<apachelogger> ScottK: got any comments on adaptation vs. adaption?
<ScottK> AFAIK adaption is not an English word.
<apachelogger> hm
<ScottK> So if it is, it's pretty obscure to an American English speaker.
<apachelogger> maybe it's en_gb
 * apachelogger changes to adaptation
<ScottK> Could be.  I do have a fair amount of experience with that too (although I'm certainly not a native speaker), so I'd expect to have known it if it was.  Dunno.
<apachelogger> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adaptation
<apachelogger> (uncountable) The quality of being adapted; adaption; adjustment.
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> norsetto: you think I should mention the homepage change seperately?
<norsetto> apachelogger: I think it would be clearer, yes
<apachelogger> okay
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152726
<norsetto> apachelogger: is this the thing that pops up in my tray, even though its disabled, whenever I open kontact?
<apachelogger> norsetto: nope, this is an applet on its own, so it doesn't end up in the tray
<norsetto> apachelogger: good, because I hate that little thing with all my heart
<apachelogger> norsetto: maybe you should make a screenshot of that thing ;-)
<norsetto> apachelogger: KOrganizer reminder daemon
<apachelogger> oh
 * apachelogger is wondering how to deactivate that thing for good
 * norsetto suggests a kalashnikov
<apachelogger> probably ;-)
<apachelogger> well, I think I turned it off somehow
<apachelogger> can't check though, I'm running kde4 and I'm afraid it might break if I log out ^_^
<apachelogger> norsetto: anyway, shall I upload the changes? or do the archvie admins first have to remove contactsmenu?
<norsetto> apachelogger: no idea
<apachelogger> not good
<norsetto> apachelogger: logic would say you can upload and ask for removal at the same time, but don't take my words as gospel
<apachelogger> well, maybe everything will explode because then are technically two source packages which generate kicker-contactsmenu
<apachelogger> ScottK: do you know how to do it?
 * ScottK reads the backscroll
<ScottK> So the issue is you're moving a binary package from being provided by one source package to another, right?
<ScottK> apachelogger: ^^^
<apachelogger> ScottK: bug 161835
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161835 in contactsmenu "[Package Removal Request] contactsmenu should be removed from hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161835
<apachelogger> ScottK: the binary is a transitional package since contactsmenu should be removed
 * ScottK reads
<ScottK> apachelogger and norsetto: My suggestion is upload the new package and then submit the removal request to the archive once the new package is built.
<apachelogger> k
 * apachelogger testbuilds
<norsetto> scottk: thx
<ScottK> BTW, I don't see support on the referenced KDE page that this replaces contactsmenu.
<apachelogger> ScottK: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Khalkhi+framework?content=54450
<apachelogger> Formerly known as Contacts framework:
<apachelogger> only that it wasn't really a framework ;-)
<ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  Thanks.
<\sh> moins
<ScottK> Good evening \sh
<\sh> hey ScottK
<ScottK> norsetto: For conky on DaD you (or someone) wrote "No need to sync."  Wouldn't it be better to sync now and get Debian and Ubuntu in agreement?
<Lutin> ScottK: doesn't seem to be a sync btw
<ScottK> Lutin: OK.  I didn't look, just reacting to the comment.
<ScottK> It would be nice if people who leave comments would say who left them.
<Lutin> yeah, weird comment, 'cause there are many changes in debian worth merging
 * ScottK chooses to blame kmos
<norsetto> ScottK, lutin: yes, its my comment
<ScottK> norsetto: It does seem an odd comment now (might have made sense late in Gutsy).
<norsetto> ScottK, lutin: I'm waiting for the new version which is being packaged right now
<Lutin> norsetto: ok
<ScottK> Ah.  I think that'd be a better comment.
<norsetto> ScottK: why strange? There is nothing in the debian package worth ahaving, and much we don't want
<norsetto> ScottK: and yes, most probably that comment date back from gutsy
<ScottK> Generally I think it's better to merge and make the best of it than not, but I think waiting for a new version you know is coming makes a lot of sense.
<norsetto> ScottK: its the same for rutilt, right now I'm waiting for debian to push the new revision
<ScottK> K
<txwikinger> What should be done with this bug #115589 ?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115589 in inkscape "inkscape pyxml missing python-xml " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115589
<norsetto> txwikinger: what stevenk said makes much sense to me. AFAICS, this is not a plug-in or extension, its a "package that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations"
<txwikinger> stevenk?
<txwikinger> norsetto: So it should be on the depends list?
<norsetto> txwikinger: IMHO it should be a reccomend (not knowing the application, from what I read in the bug report)
<norsetto> txwikinger: having said that, if debian goes for a suggest I think we should follow, don't think a delta for this would be justified
<txwikinger> So basically we leave it like it is and follow debian
<norsetto> txwikinger: I would actually add something to the bug report in the BTS
<james_w> I think providing a patch to the Debian bug to at least change the message to point to 'python-xml' would be good.
<ScottK> What's the problem with recommends?
<txwikinger> they don't get automatically installed
<txwikinger> at least that's how I understand the discussion
<ScottK> Not historically, but they do now in Debian and will for Hardy (I think) in Ubuntu.
<norsetto> ScottK: yes
<txwikinger> So this is superfluous in hardy anyway?
<dsop> hmm revu nows my email, because i uploaded a package, but i didnt get a password, nor a message to decrypt to get my password.
<norsetto> ScottK: it seems to me that the DD is more afraid to violate the policy than anything else
<james_w> txwikinger: no, because they are suggests, that is the issue.
 * txwikinger doesn't understand which policy is violated
<norsetto> txwikinger: the debian policy
<txwikinger> well what exactly
<james_w> and no policy is violated, as it is not clear which category a particular package falls in to.
<norsetto> txwikinger: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#7.2
<txwikinger> norsetto: I understand.. but then it should be recommends
<ScottK> I'd say make it recommends and don't worry.
<DaveMorris> is there a page somewhere explaining what watch files are and what I need to do for it?
<bddebian> DaveMorris: They are to alert you of new upstream releases
<DaveMorris> and how do you create them?
<ScottK> DaveMorris: man uscan
<DaveMorris> thanks
<DaveMorris> how can I get cdbs to symlink /usr/share/doc/libccptest-dev to /usr/share/doc/libcpptest0 ?
<bddebian> package.links
<DaveMorris> what man page can I read about it in as well?
<bddebian> dh_link
<DaveMorris> thanks
<bddebian> NP
<DaveMorris> how can I override the installation of documents whilst using cdbs?
<bddebian> DaveMorris: Override how?
<DaveMorris> I don't wanna install the docs for my -dev package, instead symlink to the lib it depends on
<bddebian> DaveMorris: Do you have seperate .install files for the binary packages?
<DaveMorris> yes
<bddebian> DaveMorris: Then you should be able to just be specific about what you install in each package
<pwnguin> I've got a question about what Ubuntu/Debian includes in the repos
<pwnguin> is it a good idea to bring in software that updates like once a month?
<slangasek> pwnguin: there's nothing wrong with frequent updates, as long as prior versions are supportable?
<pwnguin> usually these sorts of packages are very new
<pwnguin> im not sure what supportable entails
<ScottK> pwnguin: The downside is that there are only so many sponsors around and so everytime you ask for a new upstream release to be sponsored, that's something else that doesn't get sponsored.
<slangasek> well, obviously once it's in a release (Debian or Ubuntu), you don't get to update to a whole new upstream version once a month
<pwnguin> i think GIMP -rc3 demonstrated that there's always users who want the newest and greatest
<pwnguin> ScottK: to me it sounds like you could just recruit upstream to handle it.
<ScottK> pwnguin: I think gimp rc3 demonstrated lots of users don't understand how distributions work.
<ScottK> If they have upload rights for the distro, sure.
<pwnguin> hmm
<pwnguin> debian has a reputation for being pretty slow about getting new members
<pwnguin> i donno how true it is, but the upstream in question stated this as well
<ScottK> It's true.  OTOH, I've had no trouble getting my stuff I'm upstream for sponsored in Debian.
<ScottK> YMMV.  bddebian has lots of trouble.
<pwnguin> heh
<bddebian> That's just because they love me
<pwnguin> right now im suggesting a middle route. their host is having troubles, so im thinking set up a team ppa to host the building and distribution
 * ScottK suggests bddebian pay attention to what vorlon is telling him.
<pwnguin> right now they build and host locally
<pwnguin> apparently they're popular enough that torrents are used to lighten the load
<bddebian> ScottK: In what regard?
<ScottK> bddebian: Generally.  I think he's guiding you in a good direction.
<pwnguin> its an interesting challenge for distributions. the software's popular, but costs distributions a lot of effort
<bddebian> ScottK: Guiding me to what?
<bddebian> I have to go get my daughter
<ScottK> See you.
 * ScottK has to go too.  We can discuss later.
<dsop> can somebody help me out. my email address is registered at the revu system, but i never got a password. When i try to recover the password there is no string to decrypt displayed.
<somerville32> dsop, Than your key hasn't been synced
<ScottK> dsop: Have you uploaded anything?
<dsop> somerville32: an admin synced i manually i think, because i can upload ,etc
<somerville32> dsop, Did you upload anything yet?
<dsop> ScottK: yes, i uploaded a package
<dsop> and it was shown on the page
<dsop> so everything worked fine
<dsop> somerville32: yes, i uploaded one and it worked perfectly
<somerville32> dsop, Are you sure you're giving the correct e-mail address?
<dsop> somerville32: yes
<somerville32> dsop, You'll have to talk to a REVU admin then
<dsop> somerville32: okay, thank you for your help
<mok0> ScottK; Dictionary lists the word as another term for Adaptation
<mok0> ScottK: Oops. Was scrolled back several hours...
<wraund> just tried to sync my gpg keys but it jams on a server, anyone else having this?
<wraund> im using seahorse btw
 * RainCT raises the hand
 * emgent heya
<DaveMorris> hmm, with cdbs how can I get it to run the clean target before reversing the patches?
<azeem> DaveMorris: sounds difficult, why do you need that?
<DaveMorris> I patched the makefile to have a clean docs
<DaveMorris> but the patch is removed before the make clean
<DaveMorris> I guess I'll have to do the clean commands in the rules file
#ubuntu-motu 2007-12-02
<RainCT> good night
<persia> apachelogger: try 9wm or amiwm or ctwm with .desktop files.
<bddebian> Oh, persia
<persia> bddebian: Yes?
<bddebian> How are ya? :-)
<persia> bddebian: Well.  My todo list is down to < 350 items :)
<bddebian> Nice
<bddebian> Is conquest still on it? :)
 * Hobbsee waves
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<persia> bddebian: No, but it can be put back :)  I thought you were looking for a sponsor for the last rev.  Shall I take another try at cleaning up the -rpath stuff?
<bddebian> persia: Well I was more wondering about a bug that I can't reproduce.  Doh you actually play it?
<bddebian> s/Doh/Do/
<persia> bddebian: I've never tried, but I'll chase the bug.  #338208?
<bddebian> God I suck at pre/post/inst/rm stuff, regexp, shell scripting, just about everything else..
<bddebian> persia: No, 449136
<persia> Debian bug #449136
<ubotu> Debian bug 449136 in conquest-gl "conquest-gl: Segmentation fault when entering game world" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/449136
<persia> bddebian: Hmm.  lousy stacktrace.  I'll dig a bit.
<bddebian> I can't reproduce it, at least not with the -2 version from games team svn but that hasn't really changed much of the actual packaging
<minghua> Is there a wiki page about how to write a merge's debian/changelog?
<minghua> I would like to add a pointer to my comment in bug 173321.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173321 in maxima "Please merge maxima_5.13.0-2 from debian" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173321
<persia> !merge
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about merge - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
 * minghua pats ubotu. :-)
<persia> ubotu: merging is Merging is the process of including changes from other distributions (most commonly Debian) into Ubuntu packages, and is typically a major focus at the beginning of each Ubuntu development cycle.  Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging for more information.
<persia> minghua: You're probably interested in that as well :)
<Hobbsee> %addeditor persia
<persia> Hobbsee: Thanks :)
<minghua> persia: I saw that one, but the big "WIP" at top scared me away.
<Hobbsee> persia: can you register with the bot?  i think it's "register persia <temp password>"
<Hobbsee> in a query
<imbrandon> persia: you probably want to add it like: !merging is <reply> Merging is ....
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: yeah, i fixed it to be that
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> Hobbsee: didn't work :( (bot is not intelligent)
<imbrandon> persia: also you can <alias> other words/terms too , like !merge-o-matic is <alias> merging
<imbrandon> and #ubuntu-bots they hang out so you can spam/test in there too
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think you need a % in front
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: you can but not nessesary
<imbrandon> it will work both ways
<Hobbsee> wonder why it didn't then
 * Hobbsee hasnt had to register with the bot in ages :P
<imbrandon> s/will/should
<minghua> !rc
<ubotu> Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) is the latest version of Ubuntu. Upgrading to Gutsy:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades - Downloading: http://www.ubuntu.com/download - New Features: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/710tour - Please use bittorrent to download if possible, see !torrents
<minghua> Someone probably should fix that. :-)
<imbrandon> %whoami
<ubotu> imbrandon
<imbrandon> persia: ^^ that test if the bot "knows" you
<persia> %whoami
<ubotu> I don't recognize you.
<imbrandon> incase you need to re-login, but it should auto log you in if your cloak is active
<imbrandon> and your registed
<imbrandon> !merge-o-matic is <alias> merging
<ubotu> I'll remember that, imbrandon
<imbrandon> !merge-o-matic
<ubotu> Merging is the process of including changes from other distributions (most commonly Debian) into Ubuntu packages, and is typically a major focus at the beginning of each Ubuntu development cycle.  Please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging for more information.
<imbrandon> see Hobbsee :)
<imbrandon> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<persia> Interesting.  I can unregister, but not register.
<imbrandon> yea i was just looking up the exact syntax
<imbrandon> Seveas: any help here ? pwease
<imbrandon> Seveas: we're trying to add persia as an editor
<imbrandon> btw persia i'm sure youve glanced at it , but that wiki has syntax for sed and such to edit/add new factoids
 * emgent heya
<effie_jayx> emgent,  hello there
<rick_h_> question, I'm working on updating a package I did for my PPA. I ended up with several warnings and finally this: debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
<rick_h_> during my debuild stage
<rick_h_> but line 1247 where?
<ScottK> minghua: Sorry to have wasted your time on the forum comment yesterday.
<bddebian> rick_h_: It should say somewhere in the previous lines
<rick_h_> bddebian: ok, it didn't give any line numbers in any of the previous warnings and such so I thought the fatal error must have been unrelated and seperate
<minghua> ScottK: I was kidding. :-)
<ScottK> minghua: Ah.  Glad to hear it.  My grumpiness level is high enough right now, I'm taking all grumpiness claims totally seriously.
 * persia passes ScottK tea & biscuits
<ScottK> persia: If the tea is 'special' then that might help.
 * Hobbsee takes a drink
<minghua> Poor ScottK.
<minghua> ScottK: Anything I can help to reduce your grumpiness level?
<ScottK> minghua: Not really.  Thanks for asking though.
 * jdong hugs ScottK 
 * jdong is a bit under the weather today...
 * Hobbsee raises an eyebrow at this
 * Hobbsee thougth even html mail was supposed to contain some actual words, not just arndom letters
 * imbrandon group hugs ScottK and invites all to join *
<ScottK> Thanks.
<jdong> Hobbsee: I once got one where every freaking charactor was escaped out
<Hobbsee> ZSB0aGF0IGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgdXNlZnVsLAojIGJ1dCBXSVRIT1VUIEFOWSBXQVJSQU5UWTsgd2l0
<Hobbsee> aG91dCBldmVuIHRoZSBpbXBsaWVkIHdhcnJhbnR5IG9mCiMgTUVSQ0hBTlRBQklMSVRZIG9yIEZJ
<Hobbsee> VE5FU1MgRk9SIEEgUEFSVElDVUxBUiBQVVJQT1NFLiAgU2VlIHRoZQojIEdOVSBHZW5lcmFsIFB1
<Hobbsee> YmxpYyBMaWNlbnNlIGZvciBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHMuCiMKIyBZb3Ugc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2
<Hobbsee> ZWQgYSBjb3B5IG9mIHRoZSBHTlUgR2VuZXJhbCBQdWJsaW
<Hobbsee> it's like ^ all the way thru
<Fujitsu> Yay, base64.
<imbrandon> looks base64 encoded
<jdong> Hobbsee: base64
<jdong> grr you guys win
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<jdong> now, someone decode :)
<Hobbsee> darn gmail.  i wonder why.
<jdong> probably some sort of pill offer
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: someones mailer prefrences probably barfed on it
<Fujitsu> It could be an image. Or couldn't it also just be non-ASCII text?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: this is do ubuntu-devel@l.u.c.  it should be readable.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: i mean the senders email client prefrences
<imbrandon> like "encode all outgoing mail base64 + send html mail
<imbrandon> etc
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah right
<Hobbsee> someone poke rainct about it when he comes in then
<minghua> Hobbsee: I usually just look at the Subject when doing moderation.
<jdong> ok, this headache is killer... I'm gonna go to bed, night all
 * Fujitsu sharpens the MOTU SWAT sword for use on HTML mailers.
<imbrandon> iirc there should be a cmd line util to decode base64 fairly easy and pipe it to a file, then run `file blah.ext` on it to tell what it was supose to be
<Fujitsu> Night jdong.
<imbrandon> txt or image or what
<ScottK> Hobbsee: RainCT is aaron whitehouse, right.
<Hobbsee> minghua: unfortunately, this is both spam/non-spam moderation, and to see if it's an acceptable topic for u-d - or whether it would be better on u-d-d
<Hobbsee> from seeing u-motu, i'd imagine i'ts the same mail
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: if you would paste the contents to pastebin and i'll spend ~5 minutes trying to decode it, should be trivial
<minghua> Hobbsee: I see.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: already accepted it, i cant get it back
<imbrandon> ahh so it will be "on list" soon?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: subject : Re: Patent issues with automatic codec installation (was: Automatic installation of DVD CSS support) ?
<joejaxx> lol Gutsy + Hardy == 55GB
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: no - the tags stuff
<Fujitsu> Aha, I was right, it was UTF-8.
<joejaxx> Good evening all
 * Fujitsu notes that once a tag is created it requires a DBA to kill it.
<Fujitsu> Just removing all references won't help.
<ScottK> Ah.  More sensible and scalable designs in LP.
<Fujitsu> Yes.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes, but that's a larger matter than the list of tags & bug counts in the default list.
<Fujitsu> persia: The tags will not vanish from the list. They'll just have 0 references.
<joejaxx> how is everyone? :)
<bddebian> Heya joejaxx
<joejaxx> hello bddebian :)
<Hobbsee> hey joejaxx
<imbrandon> heya joejaxx
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  The next step is requesting removal.
<minghua> People are supposed to request removals of tags?
<minghua> Should we file bugs in LP for that?  Do we need a tag for such bugs? :-P
<ScottK> Is this documented somewhere?
<persia> Tags are poorly documented.  We could file bugs against LP for removal, or maybe there's something else, but in the absence of other documentation, bugs are best.
<lifeless> the answers section is best for getting tags removed
<lifeless> bugs are really for things that require development to alter
<persia> lifeless: How is one to know externally?
 * persia 's questions always time out from inactivity
<imbrandon> yea but development to alter a tag ( e.g. remove it if refrences == 0 ) might be a good thing
<imbrandon> would take less manpower in the longrun :)
<lifeless> imbrandon: so it depends what you're trying to accomplish I guess.
<lifeless> I would say a bug like 'only show tags with > 1 reference in the sidebar' a bug/feature request
<imbrandon> lifeless: true true, maybe one bug, and lots of removal requests
<lifeless> And 'remove from the db tags with no references' a question
<imbrandon> yea
<ScottK> So it's up to us to periodically ask to have unreferenced tags removed?
<imbrandon> ScottK: as of this moment , yes, hopefully with a bug like that filed, no
<ScottK> It does sound like a bug.
<imbrandon> anyone actively filing the code change bug? if not i volenteer to
 * ScottK certainly isn't.
<imbrandon> persia / minghua ?
<persia> lifeless: I'd say it'd be better to remove the unused tags so that people get the new tag definition warning when trying to use deprecated tags.
<imbrandon> lifeless: you actualy work on the LP team correct? i have a diffrent small question if so
<persia> imbrandon: Best to wait for RainCT to wake up again, so that everyone can agree on the right way to do it.
<imbrandon> persia: kk
<imbrandon> lifeless: i filed a request to have my PPA "cleaned" , and all packages were marked as deleted within 24 hours, but they still reside in my pool and still show up in my disk quota counts and package counts , isnt the /pool supose to be cleaned too , and if not know of a reason why it isnt ? did i find a bug or ... ( btw yes i have asked this same thing in #launchpad many times but always seem to not get a response of even "i do
<imbrandon> wow that was long
<imbrandon> did it get cut off?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> response of even "i do
<imbrandon> of even "i dont know" ) <end>
<imbrandon> thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: tried pinging cprov-out wiht your request?
<imbrandon> not personaly but i have when he was active in the irc
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: there's no real delete - it' all stays in librarian anyway
<Hobbsee> but it should have actually been removed from /pool
<imbrandon> librarian is fine, but this is on ppa.lp
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> see https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon/~archive
<imbrandon> then click in my pool
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> err +archive
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive (for the lazy like me )
<Hobbsee> yeah, they've probably messed it up :)
<Hobbsee> all i'm saying is that they don't delete it from librarian, even if the rest of it *does* work
<imbrandon> yea i dont mind them staying in libraryian. but my pool i would expect to be empty and numbers reset on delete
<Hobbsee> probably YALPB.
<imbrandon> that was the whole reason to request it, i dont care if it shows in the UI :)
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> YALPB ?
<ScottK> Yet Another Launchpad Bug
<imbrandon> ahh
 * ScottK is guessing.
<Hobbsee> yes
<imbrandon> sure, i guess i need to file another request, because i've been asking on and off for 1+ week now ( how long has it been since the 1.1.11 rollout? ) and umm they always "disapear" like this time :) hehe
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm not sure what the actual time for requests is.
<lifeless> imbrandon: cprov is the lead developer on launchpad's distro build features
<Hobbsee> like, actual properly actioning the requests
<Hobbsee> s/lead developer/half of the development team/
<imbrandon> lifeless: cool, but is that actualy a bug or was i just mis-intrepting what all got deleted on request
<lifeless> imbrandon: he's on an east-coast US time zone
<imbrandon> s/got/gets
<lifeless> imbrandon: well, he can answer authoritatively
<imbrandon> kk
<lifeless> I would guess, but guesses tend to error.
<imbrandon> yea its a bit late for him today. i'll see if i cant catch him monday-ish
<imbrandon> lifeless: yea :) but thats atleaste more than ive gotten uptil this point :)
<imbrandon> thanks
<imbrandon> i mean its not THAT big of a deal, just annoying it 1) happened and 2) i seem to get "dropped" connections and clear the room in #launchpad when i ask :)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: clearly, they just hate you.
<imbrandon> hahaha
<imbrandon> probably more like super busy, leaste thats what i'm chalking it upto this time since it was about the time 1.1.11 rolled out
<imbrandon> :P
<Hobbsee> i'ts far more fun to be paranoid, and think that htey just hate you.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Your getting imbrandon and me confused.
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> you mean they don't hate both of you?
<ScottK> Could be.
<imbrandon> btw i'm sure most of you read planet, but i'm gonna do a small OT self plug in here heh, http://www.imbrandon.com/2007.12.01/brandons-holiday-computer-fund.html
 * imbrandon stops
<minghua> Hmm, receiving 8 video cards and no RAM is a common problem?
<imbrandon> if you ask for pieces and parts :)
<minghua> fundable.com is an interesting idea.
<imbrandon> yea, i really liked it, the only downside to it i noticed is the max you can run a fundraiser for is 25 days
<imbrandon> other than that it seems like a great idea
<imbrandon> well 25 days from the time you get the first pledge, but still
 * persia thinks that any PR campaign that takes > 25 days is probably poorly designed in the first place
<imbrandon> true
<ScottK> So is it unreasonable to be grumpy that a package that I worked really hard to get removed from Universe because it was buggy and had very serious open security vulnerabilities just got put back into Gutsy in the partner repository?
<ScottK> And people say backports is crack.
<joejaxx> ScottK: lol?
<joejaxx> what package
<ScottK> Fujitsu an \sh_away: openssl097 is back (in partner).
<ScottK> joejaxx: openssl097.
<persia> ScottK: Not at all.  Please complain strenuously to thegodfather: that's entirely the wrong way to solve the problem.
<joejaxx> ScottK: oh fun :\
<ScottK> slangasek: Are you around?
<ScottK> persia: Which godfather did you have in mind.
 * joejaxx keeps telling himself it is only 55gb on the first sync, it is only 55gb on the first sync
<imbrandon> oh wow, how did it get in partner and better why?
<ScottK> dunno
<imbrandon> joejaxx: for what ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: Want to blog about Ubuntu's partner repo containing packages that are even to crappy for Universe?
<joejaxx> imbrandon: gutsy+hardy archive mirror all arches
<persia> ScottK: IRC nick of person looking at issue, and person who asked for inclusion of the offending binary blob in partner.
<imbrandon> joejaxx: apt-mirror ? hehe
<joejaxx> imbrandon: well except ports
<imbrandon> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> persia: It was fabbione and he doesn't seem to be on right now.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/openssl097/0.9.7k-3gutsy1
<imbrandon> ScottK: lemme dig a little as to when you got it removed and such and i'd be more than happy to
<joejaxx> i need to write on my blog more :\
 * persia notes that that person has been using a different nick lately, but agrees with the identification
<ScottK> imbrandon: It was removed that Monday before the release because pkern finally killed off the last rdepend for me.
<ScottK> persia: What nick then?
<ScottK> That's what's in LP.
<persia> ScottK: thegodfather
<imbrandon> i thought he was only the sparc canonical guy, now he is packing for -partner ? heh
<persia> (also not around just now)
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: is an ISV packaging dude
<ScottK> persia: Ah.  Now I understand.
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: ahh
<joejaxx> persia: almost ready for the mips and arm ubuntu ports, well the initial building anyway
<joejaxx> persia: :)
<persia> joejaxx: Excellent!  Let me know when you need ARM testing.
<joejaxx> persia: ok :)
<imbrandon> joejaxx: yea i failed at bootstrapping my mipsel, when i get a faster box i'll try it again
<ScottK> persia: I know why he did it too.
<imbrandon> because i have a perfectly good 200mhz mipsel ( pretty fast considering ) sitting here doign nothing
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  It's been under discussion the last couple days here & there.  VMWare doesn't want to recompile their blob :(
<ScottK> persia: vmware-server (1.0.4-1gutsy1)
<joejaxx> ah
<ScottK> Sounds like a perfectly reasonable reason not to include it.
<joejaxx> so that is why it too so long for vmware to hit partner :P
<ScottK> So I get broken crap removed from Universe and they just reupload it.
<persia> ScottK: I'd prefer having a recompilation, as there's a fair bit of user demand, but the inclusion of 0.9.7 is just bad.
<persia> ScottK: Open a bug with a demonstrable exploit showing that it's bad :)
<ScottK> persia: Users want a binary blob so we upload a package known to be remotely exploitable.
<persia> e.g. If you install vmware-server from Canonical, your host can be compromised.
 * ScottK may go hunt CVEs if I get bored.
<imbrandon> ScottK: if you do lemme know, i'll refrence them in the blogpost
<persia> ScottK: As I said, that's the wrong way to fix it.  The blob needs to be recompiled to use the updated library.
<ScottK> persia: Yep.
<imbrandon> id rather not post a working exploit but a cve refrence would work just was well to prove a point
<persia> ScottK: If you're feeling particulaly cheeky, file a bug against VMWare server demonstrating a security issue that forces the recompile.
<persia> imbrandon: Working exploits for that library are widely available to the public, but I can see your point.
<persia> (most are fixed in 0.9.8, which everything in gutsy is compiled against)
<joejaxx> hey tonyy ! :)
<tonyy> hi
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: arm might be fun. Been playing with my tungsten e and wondering what to do with it
<ScottK> imbrandon: Bug #146269 is the first one (I'd doing the bugs as I go).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 146269 in openssl097 "[openssl security] OpenSSL SSL_get_shared_ciphers() off-by-one buffer overflow" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146269
<imbrandon> k
<joejaxx> Burgundavia: :D
<joejaxx> well i am going to retire for the evening
<joejaxx> hopefully that sync is done in 6 horus
<joejaxx> hours*
<joejaxx> Goodnight MOTUs :P
<joejaxx> :)
<imbrandon> gnight joejaxx
<imbrandon> joejaxx: before you go.... apt-mirror ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> or just some long rsync string ...
<imbrandon> ( and if it is apt-mirror i HIGHLY sugest you backport the package from hardy and/or grab it from sf.net ) i havent finised the backports request yet for the other supported release
<imbrandon> and there is a ~ ( tilde ) bug that will clean any debs with a tilde in the url each "clean" run
<imbrandon> an anything lower than 0.4.4+debian-2
<imbrandon> just FYI
<ScottK> imbrandon: That's the only one that I see that it's vulnerable to for sure and the Secunia advisory describes the impact as "Successful exploitation allows execution of arbitrary code."
<imbrandon> hrm who awake atm has handled a few SRU's ? i personaly havent done any since edgy and would like opinons on SRUing apt-mirror to all supported releases
<imbrandon> vs -backport(ing)
<ScottK> imbrandon: It doesn't sound SRU worthy to me.  There isn't a regression, crash, or data loss from what you say.
<imbrandon> as all fixes were bug ( some serious ) fixes
<ScottK> For an SRU you'd need to cherry pick the SRU worthy fixes anyway.
<imbrandon> ScottK: dataloss as in it will clean / make an inconsistant mirror for any deb with a ~ in the url ( quite a few )
<ScottK> imbrandon: OK.  I'd buy that patch in an SRU.
<persia> imbrandon: That's data loss.  You just need a patch to only fix that, instead of upgrading to the new version.
<ScottK> keescook: Are you around?
<jdong> imbrandon: Find 2 or more people interested in verifying the SRU beforehands... Get them to commit and that'll make phase2 faster
<imbrandon> yea it should be simple, i already have them broken into patches and 3 or 4 iirc are bug fixes
<jdong> *sigh* can't sleep
<imbrandon> 3 of 4*
<Burgundavia> joejaxx: maybe with a sd wifi card, it would actually become useful
<persia> IS there an open SDIO stack yet?
<Burgundavia> sadly, afaik, no
<imbrandon> speaking of SD* anyone seen this, i probably would never get one, if i needed something like it i would use a pico-itx ( more power than a 486sx ) but its still kinda nice, i could see some uses for it, just none *I* have ... http://www.norhtec.com/products/mcjrsx/index.html
<imbrandon> tiny tiny and under $100
<imbrandon> ~$85 usd iirc
<Burgundavia> we nice for a firewall
<Burgundavia> I hate how most routers and switches don't auth against LDAP
<imbrandon> yea, or seomthing like a driver to show a display in a storefront
<imbrandon> or soemthing
<imbrandon> for soemthing like a firewall & / or router though you would need the PCIe option but iirc it only adds like 10 bux to the price
<imbrandon> so you could ass more interfaces
<imbrandon> add*
<imbrandon> or i guess a small switch attached would do it and then make virt interfaces
<imbrandon> anyhow , yea
<persia> imbrandon: It can't run Ubuntu kernels though :(
<imbrandon> persia: could run a debian 386 one
<imbrandon> :)
<persia> Debian still supports real i386 (no FP)?  Cool!
<imbrandon> iirc i think they have one, i havent looked in quite a while
<imbrandon> at very leaste they have a 486 one , and iirc untill edgy we had a 486 ( labeled 386 ) capable one
<imbrandon> grrr stupid bot
<imbrandon> 00:31 <ubotu> Error: Debian bug 386 could not be found
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> is edgy when the -generic kernels started? iirc thats when it became >= 586 subarch
<minghua> persia: Not officially in etch, AFAIK.
<DarkMageZ> Burgundavia, why would you want routers & switches to authenticate against ldap?
<persia> minghua: Makes sense.  I thought it was on the Debian lists that I read about requiring 486.
<jdong> imbrandon: we still have a -386 kernel that works with 486's though
<minghua> persia: That's my recollection, too.
<persia> imbrandon: requiring 586 is a different transition than requiring 486, but Edgy, yes.
<jdong> imbrandon: I don't recall any major distro supporting non-FPU true i386'es anymore
<imbrandon> jdong: really? i thought that was dropped
<imbrandon> well 486sx support is all it needs it says
<jdong> imbrandon: AFAIK linux-386 is still around
<jdong> imbrandon: at least it's in Gutsy
<imbrandon> and somethgin that small would be ( as much as i hate to say it ) gentoo ( bootstraped via a faster box ) or LFS system anyhow, due to size
<imbrandon> hrm or actualy there is OpenWrt for x86, wonder what kernel it uses, i know its 2.4.x
<imbrandon> and that has the ipkg system ( similar to dpkg + apt in design and use )
<imbrandon> actualy iirc it was modeled after dpkg + apt but made to be really really small for embeded systems use in OpenWrt/DD-Wrt
<jdong> imbrandon: I don't think stock dpkg/Debian/Ubuntu would be good on a 486sx in performance
<jdong> imbrandon: you'd really want to LFS or something busybox-stacked from ground up
<jdong> DD-WRT or whatever WRT is x86 compatible
<jdong> I think DD-WRT is also i386 flavorable
<persia> jdong: I haven't tried recently, but I used to run Woody on a 486DX, and it was fine (with the right choice on WM, etc.)
<imbrandon> yea i just said that heheh
<imbrandon> jdong: ^^
<jdong> imbrandon: lol I'm feverish and tired, long sentences are not being parsed in a timely manner :D
<imbrandon> openwrt has an x86 , although most packages are only prebuilt for mips(el) and arm(el)
<Burgundavia> openwrt needs to upstream their drivers
<imbrandon> but an x86 can easly host a native toolchain to make packages on a faster system
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: yea, i think as soon as they stablize on 2.6 they will, i talk to them sometimes
<imbrandon> they are still in the 2.4 --> 2.6 stages
<imbrandon> plus they still use binary blobs for alot of stuff , like broadcom
<imbrandon> iirc
<Burgundavia> http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/linksys-wrt54gx/4505-3319_7-31242695.html <-- I have one of these and I really wish I could run ebox on it
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: i have a wrt54g ( not gx ) i could help you get it running
<imbrandon> if you wanted
<imbrandon> is it flashed already ?
<imbrandon> is it a v5+ ?
<Burgundavia> no, it is a gz
<imbrandon> please say no
<Burgundavia> gx, rather
<Burgundavia> http://wiki.openwrt.org/Unsupported
<imbrandon> ahh is that the ones the cut the flashram in half ?
<imbrandon> they*
<imbrandon> yup, only 4mb
<imbrandon> crappy
<Burgundavia> that is the gx2
<Burgundavia> I have the original gx
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> WRT54GX
<imbrandon> 1.0
<imbrandon> Broadcom 4704 @ 300MHz
<imbrandon> 4MB
<imbrandon> 16MB
<imbrandon> flash / ram
<imbrandon> 4mb flash
<imbrandon> it says
<imbrandon> you would have to run the micro port IF it ever does get support, and then mount something, smb/nfs/sshfs
<imbrandon> for more room for ipkg's
<imbrandon> the j2ffs cant be enabled on those
<imbrandon> err anything that small
<Burgundavia> that is the same as the old G and GL devices
 * Burgundavia is confused
<imbrandon> there are 2 ( 3 kinda ) gx's, 1.0 , 2.0 ( and gx2 )
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> and I have version 1, I seem to remember
<Burgundavia> not having the device in the same house as I currently am
<imbrandon> ok thats the one i was looking at
<imbrandon> 300mhz
<imbrandon> 4mb flash
<imbrandon> 16mb ram
<imbrandon> PCI
<Burgundavia> right
<imbrandon> err mini-PCI
<imbrandon> oh even a serial header, nice
<imbrandon> i wish my FON had that
<imbrandon> saves from easy bricking
<Burgundavia> I wonder exactly how many Linux-based routers are vulnerable to iptables issues out there right now?
<imbrandon> err i was wrong, you would need to run mini when/if it grows support, micro is for 2mb flash routers
<imbrandon> and full is for 8mb + ones
<imbrandon> whoops , i run him off
<pwnguin> heh
<pwnguin> i have a v2 wrt54g
<pwnguin> and a v4
<imbrandon> pwnguin: yea i think thats what i have access to also ( its the router i setup for my parrents with openwrt ) , i have a FON here with openwrt on it
<imbrandon> the v2
<imbrandon> pwnguin: are you subscribed to debian-devel ML ?
<pwnguin> i doubt it
<pwnguin> motu gets enough mail as is
<imbrandon> you should look at this, it JUST came in to debian-devel , its someoen that just ran some parallel builds on sid, something like 1000+ failed due to parallel but not in regualr builds
<imbrandon> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/12/msg00020.html
<pwnguin> thats expected
<imbrandon> since you were asking about it
<imbrandon> thought you might like to see some actual numbers
<pwnguin> someoine was trying to tell me that there were builds that WORKED in parallel but failed in serial
<pwnguin> its still interesting
<pwnguin> imbrandon: what does BROKEN mean?
<pwnguin> as in "204 built BROKEN packages"
<imbrandon> e.g a normal build built one thing and the parallel build built something successfullyt, but it dident match
<minghua> Yay, all my packages succeeded. :-)
<pwnguin> now that sounds like an interesting case
<imbrandon> minghua: all 3 of mine too :)
<imbrandon> :)
<pwnguin> man xorg input really died on that
<pwnguin> hell, xorg in general
<minghua> imbrandon: Although it's probably not much of an achievement as all my packages use autotools.
<imbrandon> none of mine do
<imbrandon> well libvisual should, but i havent made those changes yet since i adopted it
<imbrandon> crap, well i just installed hardy on that iMac and it too drops to a busy box shell on boot
<imbrandon> damnit, whats with that box and linux, it likes -0- distros, only osx
<imbrandon> and old osx at that
<pwnguin> its apple hardware
<imbrandon> lol
<pwnguin> if it liked linux, apple couldn't chage you 100 dollars every year
<imbrandon> evry other piece of apple hardware i've ever owned worked flawless with linux though, even my ipod nano
<imbrandon> lol
<pwnguin> you have a 68000?
<imbrandon> hell i'm typing on an apple keyboard right now ( yes i'm on a non apple x86 PC , i just love their keyboards )
<imbrandon> pwnguin: nope, would be cool though
<imbrandon> i like strange^W non-mainstream hardware
<imbrandon> just because it dont always like me is a diffrent story
<imbrandon> :)
<imbrandon> pwnguin: your on the KS side ( even when your in-town ) correct ?
<minghua> pwnguin: I am pretty sure Apple don't want to support leopard on imbrandon's machine, so no $100 this time. :-)
<imbrandon> minghua: heh yea it dosent support anything psat 10.3 ( and i only have legit copies of 10.2 and 10.4 , and no illegal anymore since i rm -rf'd the OSx86 one )
<imbrandon> past*
<imbrandon> so i can either a) figure out why *this* iMac rev1 seems to have so many issues and none other on the net seem to with any modern linuxes ( ubuntu 5.10 loads on it fine , nothing past that for any distro ) or b) live with a 10.2 OSX install or c) buy 10.3
<imbrandon> and really the only reason i have it arround it to load some modern ubuntu on it ( hopefully hardy ) so i can add it to the ubuntuwire network as a ppc box
<minghua> imbrandon: I have a legit 10.3 copy.
<minghua> (and the iBook that it came with is currently broken.)
<imbrandon> minghua: wanna put up some pivate iso's for me or send them snail mail ? hehe
<imbrandon> lol
<imbrandon> actualy dont worry about it
<minghua> Hehe.  I'm pretty sure putting up ISOs would not be legal, but I'll consider sending the CDs to you.
<imbrandon> because honestly if i get too frustratd and get another ppc box i will just load 10.2 on this one and give it to some child to use
<imbrandon> really i have no use for it running osx, i only have it arround for UW, past that its just takin up space :)
<imbrandon> and i'm not out much, i got it from a LUG member for $10 a few weeks ago
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> i even tried that xPostFacto program thats supose to let you run OSX 10.4 on un-supported ( by apple ) PPC hardware
<imbrandon> and it wouldent even let me load 10.4 hehe
<imbrandon> and on the xPostFacto site it says 10.4 is even known to run on the original powermacs ( abet really really slow )
<imbrandon> so i think the iMac i have is just possesed
 * minghua doesn't consider trying to make OS X working on unsupported hardware worth the time spent.
<minghua> I'd rather try making linux working on them.
<imbrandon> well it was worth trying at the time, because the usb wireless nic i had only supports 10.3+
<imbrandon> minghua: yea, i'm gonna mess with it about a week more with hardy, past that it gets given to someone that needs it for xmas with 10.2 :)
<imbrandon> i'm sure there is some child here localy that would love a computer, it runs fine in 10.2 with wired ethernet, but i just have no use for it in that configuration
<minghua> And 10.2 is a fine OS.  Although probably a bit not secure.
<imbrandon> its still updated by apple with security updates
<imbrandon> so it should be secure
<minghua> 10.2?  I thought Apple stopped Jaguar security updates long ago.
<imbrandon> iirc they still do 10.1+ i might be wrong, they atleast still provide the downlaods for them via the normal update client and still backport things like safari 1.0
<imbrandon> etc
<nxvl> !iirc
<ubotu> IIRC means "if I remember correctly"
<minghua> imbrandon: From http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75421 the last update was August 2004, so I'd guess "no security support anymore".
<imbrandon> ahhh
<imbrandon> well atleaste they have the old downlaods avail for the update client :)
<imbrandon> and new apps like safari :)
<imbrandon> even more reason to get linux working on it though
<pwnguin> imbrandon: yes, my family lives in Kansas
<ScottK> pwnguin: Where in Kansas?
<pwnguin> didnt we already have this conversation
<ScottK> We probably did, but it's late, I'm tired, and I don't remember.
<pwnguin> about 15 minutes south of where your parents live, in olathe
<ScottK> Ah.  I remember now.  Thanks.
<ScottK> Sorry for the repeat.
<pwnguin> i live near KSU
<imbrandon> :)
<ScottK> OK.  Well kmos is officially the MOTU Council's problem now.
<imbrandon> ScottK: heh, how is that ?
<ScottK> imbrandon: I just asked them to have him removed on MC mailing list.
<imbrandon> removed from the ML or ...
<ScottK> Removed from Ubuntu related LP functions and not allowed to bug people here or on MOTU ML.
<ScottK> It's the most execommunicated I think might stick.
<imbrandon> ah
<persia> The difficulty being that he's actually helped once or twice recently (although I'd agree about the overall balance of contributions, even over the short term)
<ScottK> Right.  Even a blind hog roots up an acorn once and a while.
<persia> ScottK: Just FYI, MC also mentioned ongoing discussions on that topic in the last Community Council meeting.
<persia> (http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/11/29/%23ubuntu-meeting.html)
<ScottK> persia: Yes.  That was in anticipation of this request as I've told them it was coming.
<persia> Ah.  That makes sense.  Just wanted to make sure the loop was closed.
<ScottK> I was there ready to suggest maybe he shouldn't be a member and dholbach wanted to avoid a bloodbath at the CC meeting.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Personally, I think it'd have been good to get it out in the open, but that isn't how he wanted to deal with it.
<minghua> Bloodbath at CC meeting...
<ScottK> Unfortunately not.
<persia> I'll agree about open, but I agree with sabdfl that the CC is the wrong place for membership discussions, and I further think that MC should be taking action, rather than CC in the case of someone who doesn't meet the guidelines for Contributor or MOTU. (and TB for someone who isn't meeting guidelines for Core Dev).
 * minghua wonders who can push MC to make the decision, though.
<imbrandon> persia: well kinda, correct place for membership disscussions, wrong place for contributor/motu revocation
<persia> minghua: Push MC?  It's just been formally brought for consideration a little while ago, and it's a weekend.
<imbrandon> cc has always been the membership place
<ScottK> persia: Doesn't mean they'all actually do anything.
<persia> imbrandon: I disagree.  We're too big.  membership should be granted by LoCo coordination team, MC, Documentation team, maybe someone else if I'm missing part of the structure.
<imbrandon> persia: granted, yes, revoked no
<persia> ScottK: Wait a week.  I might agree with you, but will give them the benefit of the doubt first: this is the first removal request.
<imbrandon> revokation is a rare ( hopefully ) thing that should be handeled by the cc ( the overseer of the smaller teams )
<ScottK> persia: Agreed.  I understand it'll take some time.
<persia> imbrandon: I still think it's a team decision, rather than a full community decision, but won't argue the case now.
<ScottK> imbrandon: That was my thought too, but jono told me to take it to the MC.
<imbrandon> persia: ummm thats the cc's job, voice of the full community
 * persia notes that the party under discussion isn't a member, this is a case of them being barred from development contributions, not a case of losing membership.
<minghua> persia: And why would that make a difference?
<persia> imbrandon: Do you read the CC meeting logs or attend?  It's not a functional forum when dealing with minutiae.  Further, if membership is delegated to teams, that should be full delegation, not partial delegation.
<imbrandon> probem is he can always create another account
<imbrandon> :(
<ScottK> imbrandon: True, but it won't be hard to figure out it's him again.
<lifeless> not with the same email
<pwnguin> wasn't there a talk on google video about poisonous people?
<ScottK> He has a 'unique' signature.
<persia> minghua: Because if someone was a member, and was losing membership, I'd be a little more sympathetic to the idea that it was for a larger body to consider.  I'd still prefer team leadership making a decision, and CC acting as court of final appeal.
<minghua> persia: Also, I think MC should have been aware of this issue for a while.
<imbrandon> pwnguin: yea from the svn devs
<pwnguin> imbrandon: perhaps a decision from the MC will carry enough weight to "send the message"
<ScottK> minghua: I'm personally disappointed I had to do this.  He's clearly been disruptive long enough I think they should have stepped in.
<persia> minghua: Yes, but awareness and formal consideration are different.  MC considers each issue on prosented merits, not based on arbitrary external knowledge.  In the spirit of transparency, I think this is a good thing.
<persia> s/prosented/presented/
<minghua> persia: And you think in this case, banning a non-member to participate development only requires the MOTU team's decision?
<pwnguin> persia: it also makes someone else have to become the "proscecuter"
<pwnguin> elect themselves proscector even
<persia> minghua: Yes.  If they want to contribute to advocacy or docs or translation or whatever, that's for that team to consider the quality and benefit of contributions.
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.  That makes it unlikely to be abused.
<ScottK> persia: Part of the problem with this approach is that what I'm asking for affect much more than his ability to participate in MOTU, but it's the needed remedy.
 * minghua agree with pwnguin, and would like to thank ScottK for stepping up.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Yes.  It means I get to quit being a developer for a while and play lawyer instead.
<pwnguin> it also means that nonconfrontational people will be abused by "confrontational" people, because they wont elect themselves to step up when they reasonably should
<ScottK> Yeah.  Just how I want to spend my free time having 'fun'.
<ScottK> pwnguin: This is the first time this has ever been done in the history of Ubuntu.  I shouldn't worry to much about it becoming frequent.
<persia> ScottK: True, but you're complaint is about his influence on MOTU.  He has influence in other places, but unless there is another team also wishing for a full ban, it's difficult to see why CC cares.  On the other hand, of DocTeam or Translations, or LoCos wants it too, then it's more of a CC issue.  Testimonials from LoCo seem strong, so I remain convinced it's a MC issue.
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> s/you're/your/
<pwnguin> testimonials are always strong
 * ScottK just wants it done.
<persia> pwnguin: True, but volume counts.  If LoCo is seeing strong contributions, LoCo should be able to continue to receive them, regardless of MOTU ban.
<pwnguin> if loco wants him, sure, i guess
<minghua> persia: You mean LoCo team's testimonials are strongly in favor of his contributions?
<pwnguin> persia: presumably within the LoCo
<persia> minghua: That's the impression I had from his wiki page.
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.
<minghua> Hmm.  A bit hard for me to comprehend.
<ScottK> persia: I disagree.  People this disruptive should not be allowed a voice in the Ubuntu governance process (which is what membership give you).
<pwnguin> im thinking though that if you get kicked out of one team for personality conflicts or whatever, then future applications should note this
<persia> minghua: He's enthusiatic and energetic, and not particularly careful.  This is bad for MOTU, but can be good for advocacy, depending on where the care slips.
<ScottK> persia: I don't care what he does in a loco.
<ScottK> persia: I also disagree he has potential to be good in a loco.
<ScottK> persia: He's where he is because he doesn't listen to other people and has no idea (or doesn't care) what is helpful or not.
<ScottK> That's not good in a loco either.
<pwnguin> "not particularly careful" means "potentially harmful" wherever. development or advertising
<persia> ScottK: I'm not advocating membership, just stating that I believe that teams should have quasi-independent governance, and that I'm not involved enough in LoCo to make a determination, but that the testimonials are strong.
<persia> pwnguin: True.  I still believe it's a LoCo call, and not a MC call.
<ScottK> persia: I agree in general, but I think it would be wrong for another team to give membership to someone who'd been kicked out by MC.
<pwnguin> persia: i guess farming out advertising to the LoCos also involves assuming some of that risk anyways
<minghua> persia: Depending on what the LoCo team does, I guess.  I'm still skeptical.
<persia> ScottK: Without first getting approval from MC, I'd agree.
<persia> pwnguin: Yes.
<pwnguin> i dont know this individual and have somehow managed to avoid disvovering their negative impact
<persia> minghua: I can't say: I'm not involved in LoCo.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Well that's what I thought you were arguing for when you said it should be independent.
<ScottK> pwnguin: It hasn't been very voluminous recently.
<pwnguin> i did hear something about a promise that gimp final would be in gutsy
<ScottK> pwnguin: Pull down the ubuntu-motu IRC logs for July and August and grep for Kmos.
<ScottK> pwnguin: That was one of his later stupidities.
<minghua> I'm not exposed to much of his behavior either, but what I've seen is pretty much 100% bad. :-(
<persia> ScottK: quasi-independent.  We're all Ubuntu.  We're all bound to the CoC and CC, but I believe we're too big to track easily, and that the larger teams should be handling membership and assignments.  The teams need to coordinate, but we can't know everyone anymore.
<ScottK> persia: I agree with that in general.
<pwnguin> ScottK: can you imagine any process of reconciliation, or is this a personality conflict?
<ScottK> pwnguin: It's not just me.  It's everyone who's worked with him.
<persia> I'm much more in favor of policies being set "in general", and specific cases compared against those policies.  If nothing fits, the policies may be adjusted, but should still fit "in general".  Specific policies are just bad, and setting rules to bar specific things is bad: we'd do better to have a guideline such as "works well with others" to cover any specifics that cause issues.
<pwnguin> ScottK: im saying more along the lines of, two or three years from now, the dude mellows out, gets meds or theraputic cluebat applications. should he be banned for life?
<ScottK> pwnguin: We've given him about a hundered chances and bent over backwards trying to get him to focus in on doing stuff he can be productive at and he just won't.
<persia> (different meds)
<ScottK> pwnguin: Who knows.  That's why I put something about a path back in into my request.
 * pwnguin should probably read the request now
<ScottK> persia: You know you aren't kidding.  He blamed psychiatric medicine once for why he messes up.
<minghua> ScottK: Is the request publicly accessible?
<ScottK> minghua: Yes.  It's to the MC mailing list.
<persia> No, I'm not kidding.  I wish the best for him, but don't feel he's a helpful contributor at this time.
<pwnguin> kinda sad. being fired from a volunteer position
<ScottK> Yes.
<persia> pwnguin: It actually happens quite often in offline communities.  The people who want to help are not always the people who can help.
<ScottK> pwnguin: lists.debian.org seems to have gone away for a bit, but here's the Google cache version of the analysis of his contribution to debian-games: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Vnt6aZoH_XUJ:lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2007/10/msg00038.html+http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-games/2007/10/msg00038.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox
<pwnguin> is he an motu, or just a hopeful?
<ScottK> pwnguin: Hopeful.
<persia> pwnguin: Neither.  He's publically stated he has no intention of becoming MOTU: he's just a Contributor.
<ScottK> pwnguin: Although he sometime claims not to be actually trying to become a MOTU so some of the rules don't actually apply as a reason for mistakes.
<ScottK> pwnguin: What persia said.
<persia> Don't get me wrong: I'm in full support of Contributors who don't wish to take the responsibility of MOTU, but this is a special case.
<minghua> I am against any Contributor who use "I have no intention to become an MOTU" as an excuse for mistakes.
<pwnguin> would it be any better if they did have an intention to be an MOTU and did this?
<minghua> No.
<minghua> Such people shouldn't contribute.  Period.  With intention or not.
<StevenK> Why not?
<persia> pwnguin: In that case, correction could involve a note that MOTU would be harder to achieve.  In this case, we have less moral leverage.
<ScottK> StevenK: Because their contribution has a substantial negative value on the project.
<StevenK> They have pet bugs, but they don't want the responsibility to upload to the archive. And?
<minghua> By such, I mean "people make mistakes and not willing to correct or learn".
<minghua> StevenK: I hope I've answered your question.
<StevenK> minghua: Ah, the not contributors versus non-contributors
<ScottK> Hello StevenK.
 * StevenK waves
<minghua> StevenK: Huh?  Sorry English is not my native language, that's too subtle.
<StevenK> minghua: s/\(the\) \(not\)/\2 \1/
<persia> minghua: People who actively cause extra effort for others as opposed to people who have only peripheral interest.
<persia> (or don't do anything at all)
<minghua> Err, RegExp is not my native language either... :-)
<pwnguin> minghua: he was attempting to make a distinction between two identical ideas
<pwnguin> which is bound for failure
<StevenK> minghua: Gaah :-)
<minghua> StevenK: I understand now. :-)
<minghua> StevenK: But why do you need to escape the parantheses?
<StevenK> minghua: Because it's sed.
<StevenK> And sed is "special"
<persia> One *ALWAYS* escapes parentheses for real regexes.  Perl got it wrong, and is for lazy people without backslash keys.
<minghua> StevenK: Thanks.  Good to know.
<StevenK> More what persia said, though.
<pwnguin> interesting
<pwnguin> does kmos have a lp account?
<ScottK> pwnguin: gothix I think.
<persia> pwnguin: Yes, used for multiple projects, and should not be purged.
<ScottK> Just highly restricted.
<pwnguin> im just trying to find it
<ScottK> pwnguin: https://launchpad.net/~gothicx
<ScottK> I'm going to bed now.  Good night all.
<minghua> Good night ScottK.
<ScottK> If anyone sees fabbione around please give him a good thwack on the head from me for re-uploading openssl097 to the Gutsy partner repository with an open remote exploitation vulnerability unpatched.
<ScottK> good night minghua.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: excellent mail
<Hobbsee> ScottK: btw....finding people from irc spheres who have authority won't be hard.
<persia> Hobbsee: It's a matter of the decision being made by the right authority.  Having a witchhunt is easy, but doesn't help really :(
<Hobbsee> persia: granted, but the irc operators have the right to act if a person is being disruptive enough, in any #*ubuntu* channel.
<Hobbsee> irrespective, really, of what the governing body and beurocratic process is up to.
<Hobbsee> or of people's statuses in the community.
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  I'm just not convinced that this is a case of someone being in-channel disruptive, as opposed to being development-disruptive, and prefer the right solution to an IRC ban.
<Hobbsee> persia: i was only talking the case of him being disruptive in-channel
<Hobbsee> and also mentioning that it would not require going thru the MC council, getting them to weigh in, etc, on whether they thought it was necessary
<persia> Ah.  I expect swatting for that, as with all disruptors: the IRC Ops team is evervigilant, and to be commended for keeping things so clean.
<Hobbsee> over a matter of a simple ban
<Hobbsee> i think i've done so once, over a consistantly disturbing individual, "attempting" to help.
<Hobbsee> muted him in all development-related channels, and #ubuntu+1.  he eventually behaved, after that.
<Hobbsee> well, attempting to get his bug solved.
<Hobbsee> wouldn't listen, etc.
<persia> Sounds familiar.  I'm glad there is precedent.
<Hobbsee> although i was fortunate, in that he didn't try very hard to contest the global gagging.
 * persia gets annoyed at aptitude and un-NBS's everything installed locally except X stuff.
<Hobbsee> oh, and uh...the irc team doesn't take kindly to any of it's members being harrassed, so he really had no chance of winning.
<persia> Hobbsee: That's a good thing, but if you're just doing your job, I wouldn't worry about contest.  It's the rare case where you'd be called down for it.
<Hobbsee> persia: we do...often enough.
<persia> Get called down, or have people contest bans?
<Hobbsee> unsure what you mean by getting called down
<persia> Hey!  You!.  Get down and grovel and apologize because you overreached your authority!
<Hobbsee> persia: we even had a guy today, complaining about -in ops.  i pointed out the 5 rules he'd managed to break, and what he was doing, and said that he should have been banned earlier than he was.  he shut up somewhat, thought about it, then went and apologiesd to the -in team.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, we get that slightly.  some people get a little trigger-happy, particularly in userland.  you know, after you've kickbanned 5 people, and it's before lunch time...
<persia> That's the behaviour I'd expect, and I'd expect other IRC Ops to support any IRC Op who made a call, as I doubt there are many cases of abuse (and expect near instant loss of IRC Ops rights if there was)
<Hobbsee> contesting bans happens a fair bit - people come in all angry, occasionally get banned from there too for a few hours
<Hobbsee> sometimes they come back and apologise later.
<Hobbsee> there are some.  *shrug*
<Hobbsee> it's not clear cut
<persia> I'd expect frequent contests: there needs to be room for appeal, but as long as the operators are generally considered fair, and the channels are good, life is good.
<Hobbsee> just wait till you hear the discussions about irc censorship :)
<persia> There are far too many ways around any and all means of IRC banning for me to seriously consider IRC censorship.
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> well, it's somewhat distracting if you've got the kline-on-sight status
<persia> Right.  So I use a web IRC gateway and a different nick.  Not too hard.
<Hobbsee> there are limited irc gateways
<pwnguin> not really
<Hobbsee> and some of them just ban gateways, so your'e still stuffed.
<persia> Hobbsee: But there are unlimited open botnets...
<imbrandon> persia / ScottK : http://www.imbrandon.com/2007.12.02/ugh.html
<Hobbsee> persia: this is true, and there are ways around them, too
<pwnguin> ah, every internet problem comes down to microsoft being bad at network security =(
<persia> As long as I run a muted log user from a different source, I'm able to follow conversation, and just need to push anything I say from a relay.
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: s/Gusty/Gutsy/
<persia> imbrandon: As slangasek pointed out, it's only a case where the remove management port is enabled, and there's not a PoC available.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee: fixed, persia reworded
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: :)
<persia> pwnguin: Botnets were available before microsoft, and will be available after microsoft.  Anyway, I think the difficulty of imposing true IRC censorship is a good thing.
<AnAnt> Hello, I need help with piuparts, I run 'piuparts -d gutsy -p <some deb file>', but it doesn't work, as it can't get debfoster, I found that debfoster is in universe, yet piuparts for some reason uses main & restricted only, can anyone help ?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Aaaaaargh. Their problem, anyway.
<geser> mr_pouit: as you sponsored the dir2ogg merge: what's the reason behind "- Don't use new VCS-* and Homepage fields as the new dpkg has not been merged yet
<geser> "?
<persia> geser: Because they don't get passed to the binary package, as dpkg-strips them (no XSBC).
 * persia hopes for a dpkg merge soon, as we're damaging heaps & heaps of stuff with the syncs, never mind uploads
<geser> persia: but is this important enough to undo the changes in the Debian package?
 * Fujitsu wonders why it wasn't merged months ago...
<Fujitsu> geser: Undoing it is good.
 * geser hopes that dpkg gets merged soon as there are packages FTBFS because of a to old dpkg
<persia> geser: Well, if we don't undo it, we'll need to push a new update later anyway.  We have to do this for several thousand packages, so I'm not sure which is right.
<white> Fujitsu: uploaded htdig fix via QA upload, thanks for the patch
<persia> white: Is the QA miniconf still underway?
<Fujitsu> white: Danke.
<white> Fujitsu: :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, just got the -commits mail.
<white> persia: ?
<white> persia: i am not in extremadura
<persia> white: Ah.  So Yes, but you're not there.  Thanks.
<AnAnt> no one knows about piuparts ?
<geser> AnAnt: are you using an existing pbuilder base.tgz or a new one?
 * Fujitsu blinks. Why are there some bugs tagged with bugXXXXXX, where XXXXXX is some other bug?
<tsmithe> RainCT, wow, you triaged my needs-packaging bug fast!
<StevenK> Fujitsu: ... Interesting
<RainCT> tsmithe: hehe :)
 * RainCT cheats and has a script for it
<tsmithe> haha, but still...
<RainCT> yes, you had luck :). I usually only run it once a day
<AnAnt> geser: existing one
<geser> AnAnt: and it has universe enabled?
<AnAnt> geser: yup
<geser> AnAnt: have you used "-b /path/to/your/pbuilder/base.tgz"? When I read the manpage correctly a new chroot gets created when you don't specify it
<geser> AnAnt: I used the piuparts deb from Debian as the gutsy one has some problems
<AnAnt> geser: I ran: sudo piuparts -d gutsy -p <deb package>
<AnAnt> geser: it fetches /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz
<AnAnt> geser: that's the base.tgz that I use when I run pbuilder to build packages
<geser> ok, I didn't play much with pbuilder yet
<AnAnt> geser: if I do pbuilder login, I can do apt-get install debfoster
<AnAnt> I just can't get it
<geser> AnAnt: sorry, I meant piuparts but typed pbuilder: I didn't play much with piuparts yet
<AnAnt> so I should try the piuparts from Debian ?
<geser> I had some problems with the piuparts package from gutsy but I don't remember anymore which problem it was
<DaveMorris> Hi, with my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=cpptest it's been suggested I symlink the docs for the -dev package to the lib package.  However I don't know how to do this.  I can create links in cdbs using the packagename.links however because the dir already exists it complains.
<persia> DaveMorris: I think you want to not create /usr/share/doc/libfoo-dev and symlink that to /usr/share/doc/libfoo, but I'm not sure of the implementation details.
<DaveMorris> yeah I just don't know how to tell cdbs to do that
<AnAnt> geser: I used Debian's piuparts, still same problem
<imbrandon> DaveMorris: you probably want to use a debain/<package>.links file
 * imbrandon is off to bed, gnight all
<Fujitsu> Night imbrandon.
<DaveMorris> imbrandon: I did, however it complains that the dir already exists
<DaveMorris> because the docs are installed to the same path as what the symlink will be
<tsmithe> why would i be getting assembler errors in my pbuilder that don't happen outside of it?
<persia> DaveMorris: Then don't install any docs or changelogs for the -dev package
<DaveMorris> how do I do that?
<persia> tsmithe: Different library versions?
<tsmithe> why should that be the case, if I'm using the same distribution for each?
<persia> DaveMorris: Don't have debian/libfoo.docs and pass some magic to dh_installchangelogs to exclude that package (I don't know which CDBS variable needs setting, but you can probably find it in the debhelper.mk include file)
<persia> tsmithe: Perhaps one or the other isn't 100% up to date, or you have a | supported alternative locally.
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> i'll update my main system, but i still think it's odd that the error occurs in the process of compiling a c++ file ("/tmp/ccYzfS81.s:12998: Error: unbalanced parenthesis in operand 1.")
<persia> DaveMorris: Sorry: I meant "don't have debian/libfoo-dev.docs".  My apologies for any confusion.
<DaveMorris> I knew what you meant, I just can't find the option to tell cdbs not to make the docs.  As I was thinking along the same lines as you guys last night
<Kmos> bug 173415
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173415 in malone "Please perform a massive tag purge for the Ubuntu project" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173415
<Fujitsu> bug 2345
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 2345 in eclipse "Dependencies for eclipse-sdk are not installable/don't exist" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2345
<persia> DaveMorris: CDBS calls  dh_installchangelogs -p$(cdbs_curpkg) $(DEB_DH_INSTALLCHANGELOGS_ARGS) $(DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_ALL) $(DEB_INSTALL_CHANGELOGS_$(cdbs_curpkg)) which gives you a few opportunities to add arguments.  /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk has some comments at the top that might help you choose which.
<jussi01> Hei everyone, Ive just got 1 quick question. if I have a patch form someone in  .diff format intended to patch a library, what is the way to apply this? note, its not a debdiff....
<Hobbsee> jussi01: patch -p# < ../patch
<Hobbsee> from the source dir
<Hobbsee> jussi01: a debdiff is just a special patch
<persia> jussi01: Unpack the package.  Check the patch system.  Prep the package to accept a patch.  apply the patch.  Exit the patch system helper.  Edit the changelog.  Build the source.  Ignore Hobbsee for now.
<jussi01> hehe
 * persia notes that Hobbsee is correct, but not complete
<Hobbsee> oh, i was assuming that the patch was fine to apply and such.
<geser> can someone please look at the gtk-engines-mono FTBFS: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10688624/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.gtk-engines-mono_0.0.5-1build1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> is this a bug in dh_strip or in the package (I build it successfully in a pbuilder)?
 * persia doesn't know C#, but tries it in a sbuild environment
<geser> persia: it has nothing to do with C#
<geser> !info gtk-engines-mono
<ubotu> gtk-engines-mono: Mono theme for GTK+ 1.2. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.5-1 (gutsy), package size 24 kB, installed size 140 kB
<persia> Really?  I thought all the mono stuff was C#.  I'll dig more then.
<Fujitsu> persia: It's just a theme called Mono.
<minghua> Bad, bad name choice. :-)
<persia> Well, I can reproduce the build failure at least.
<LucidFox> persia> Not all of Mono is C#, there's also VB.NET -_-
<persia> LucidFox: Sure, but that's special, and can be safely ignored.
<geser> it looks like dh_strip expects debian/gtk-engines-mono but the package uses debian/tmp (it's an old package)
<persia> To me it looks like missing includes, as the new GCC is very picky.  I thought that all of those were filed as bugs in Debian, usually with patches, but the Debian servers aren't being very helpful right now (for me).
<geser> persia: you're talking about the gtk-engines-mono package? did you get an other build failure as the buildds?
<persia> geser: I get the same build failure as the buildds.
<persia> Directory debian/gtk-engines-mono does not exist, aborting
<persia> On the other hand, I appear to be investigating a non-build failure problem with the package, and have stopped :)
<txwikinger> well, this is nice.. even the author of the software doesn't know what the stuff does
<persia> Looks to me like the problem is with pkg-create-dbgsym
<geser> persia: I've successfully build the the package in a pbuilder (but without the dh_strip version from the buildds)
<persia> geser: If you put pkg-create-dbgsym in your pbuilder, can you replicate?
<geser> persia: will try
 * persia highly recommends the use of pkg-create-dbgsym and pkgbinarymangler in chroots for pbuilder & sbuild.
<geser> persia: with pkg-create-dbgsym I can replicate the FTBFS
<persia> geser: Right.  Ask pitti if you need to adjust it, but that's likely the source of error.
<geser> ok, thanks
<persia> Debian bug #385245
<ubotu> Debian bug 385245 in bsdutils "renice succeeds on garbage input" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/385245
<persia> Err.  Debian bug #386246
<ubotu> Debian bug 386246 in debhelper "debhelper: scripts silently succeed on nonexisting package build dir" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/386246
<persia> geser: It looks like the package built with the default dh_strip doesn't actually get stripped due to 386246.  Best to force the right tmpdir (which may be debian/tmp, but this needs to be clear to debhelper).  I suspect there's some other oddities as a result of the confusion.
<geser> persia: I will talk to pitti about this FTBFS on monday
<persia> geser: Look at bug 386246 and the changelog for pkg-create-dbgsym 0.17.  It's intentional, and the expectation is that the packages will be adjusted so that debhelper gets the right value for tmpdir.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Please give back gnustep-base on lpia, let's see if that convinces to build
 * Fujitsu convinces it to not build.
 * StevenK kicks Fujitsu 
 * Fujitsu cackles evilly.
<StevenK> In the face
<Fujitsu> Damn.
 * Fujitsu goes back to mplayer CVEs, then. With no teeth.
<StevenK> Hah
<geser> StevenK: looking at the build log for gnustep-base on lpia: line 72 in debian/rules is 'error "unsupported architecture"'
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Ah, then never mind me, I'll belt it
<geser> that's inside the block which checks the ffi lib settings based on the arch
<StevenK> So it just needs to be taught that lpia == i686
 * persia is late again
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | It's REVU Day.  Uploaders: please refresh your uploads, and ask for review.  Reviewers, let's close all the open reviews from the top of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
 * Fujitsu tut tuts.
<geser> it's monday again?
<persia> At least this time I have an expectation of not having a network failure, and might end it on time.
<persia> geser: Yep.  Has been for 139 minutes now.
<persia> Only 6 packages to review though, so it'll be a boring REVU day (unless we get a lot of uploads).
<mok0> persia: I'll get my next versions uploaded to REVU ASAP
<Fujitsu> persia: Your advocation on sdlmame-cheat looks bogus.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I see.
<persia> Fujitsu: Even with the note that it is intentional?  The only issue is a single '.' character and some wishlists.
<Fujitsu> I just saw said note, oops.
<persia> On the other hand, until sdlmame gets in, sdlmame-cheat is largely useless.
<persia> Fujitsu: No worries.  I added the note because another reviewer came to the same conclusion.
<apachelogger__> ajmitch: bug 145520 - how does libapache-filter-perl relate to khalkhi? Oo
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 145520 in khalkhi "[UNMETDEPS] khalkhi has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145520
<persia> apachelogger__: Look at the note in the first comment.
<apachelogger__> persia: yeah that one is valid, but the orignial comment is kinda strange
<apachelogger__> persia: anyway, do you think that's reason enough for an SRU?
<persia> apachelogger__: If the package cannot be installed, and it could be installed in a previous release, then it counts as a regression.  If it could never be installed, it doesn't count.
<persia> (check the unmetdeps output for previous releases to decide)
<apachelogger__> persia: gutsy was the first release for khalkhi
<apachelogger__> the missing package just got stuck in new queue
<apachelogger__> hence didn't make it into the release
<persia> apachelogger__: Then unless there's some other compelling reason, it doesn't count for SRU.  This is especially true for NEW, as NEW for SRU makes the archive-admins cry.  You might consider a backport.
<apachelogger__> ok, thanks a lot
<persia> apachelogger__: No problem.  Also, if there is a compelling reason, you can ask an archive admin, just be prepared for them to say "No".
<persia> (and when ~motu-sru comes back, ask them instead of bothering the archive admins)
<apachelogger__> ok
<apachelogger__> though I don't think there is a compelling reason, khalkhi is a metapackage
 * Fujitsu heads to bed.
<persia> Good night Fujitsu
<Fujitsu> Night persia.
<slicer> Hi. I have a few questions regarding a revu feedback I hope someone can answer.
<slicer> The package in question is: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble
<slicer> 1) Please add a color to the (LP: #129081) stanza in the changelog: it doesn.t currently close the bug.
<slicer> How do I add color to a changelog?
<StevenK> slicer: I think they mean 'colon'
<slicer> StevenK: It suddenly makes much more sense then.
<StevenK> Although n and r are not close on a US keyboard
<slicer> I'll interpret it as colon and fix it.
<slicer> Next up: 4) Consider linking to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 for GPKv2 code
<slicer> Linking what?
<StevenK> slicer: That is probably telling you fix up your debian/copyright file
<slicer> THat's probably related to: 6) It would be nice to include licensing for the packaging
<slicer> Though I'm not sure how that is different from the debian/copyright?
<StevenK> slicer: Pastebin your debian/copyright, I'm sure we can pick it to bits
<StevenK> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: The Ubuntu pastebin is not there, but http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<StevenK> Also, "a service to post large texts" reads wrong. :-)
<slicer> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mumble-0711180130/mumble-1.1.1/debian/copyright
 * persia notes that n & r are also not close on a jp106 keyboard, but that fingers don't always follow directions very well.
<slicer> .. should do, right?
<StevenK> slicer: You should point at /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2
<slicer> Ah, instead of just /GPL?
<StevenK> slicer: Right.
<jeromeg> hello
<persia> ubotu: pastebin is <reply> A Pastebin is a service where large texts can be posted as an alternative to flooding IRC channels.  The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/ .  After pasting, please copy the URL of the paste to the channel so others know where to find your data.
<jeromeg> is ubuntu's dpkg already supporting the new Homepage field ?
<mok0> jeromeg: It complains, but that's all
<persia> jeromeg: No, but we're pretending it does.
<jeromeg> mok0, persia : ok
<jeromeg> and where exactly am i supposed to put it in debian/control ?
<jeromeg> I can't find any doc for this
<jeromeg> just debian usage stats
<persia> jeromeg: If there is a single homepage for the entire package, put it in the source stanza.  If there are separate homepages for the binaries, put them in the binary stanzas.
<mok0> jeromeg: I don't think it matters. Somewhere in the source package section
<jeromeg> persia, mok0 : ok thank you both
<tsmithe> how extensive does the copyright information in debian/copyright need to be with regards to source files?
<persia> tsmithe: Every file that has a distinct license needs to be mentioned.
<minghua> imbrandon: There?
<tsmithe> persia, but not a distinct copyright owner?
<mok0> Hi minghua, I addressed your comments for maxima
<tsmithe> because there can be lots of those, and this is already mentioned in the source files themselves
<StevenK> minghua: It's 6am there, I doubt it.
<minghua> imbrandon: Just to let you know that *all* your blog posts show up on Planet Debian, which you probably don't want.
<mok0> StevenK: I prefer to think you're staying up late ;-)
<minghua> StevenK: It's more like 7am, but it was worth a shot.
<minghua> mok0: Great, thanks.
<persia> tsmithe: If all the licenses match, and all the copyright holders are listed in debian/copyright, you don't need to specify all the files (I believe).
<tsmithe> ok
<mok0> minghua: Well thanks for your very clear comment. I was wondering whether it was necessary to put the "old" mods in there. I see the logic of it now.
<minghua> mok0: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging should help, but I have no idea how accurate that page is.
<minghua> mok0: In case of uncertainty, ask here. :-)
<tsmithe> persia, but i'm not allowed to do something like "(C) 2007 Werner Schweer and others". ie, i have to list every contributor?
<mok0> minghua: yeah I should've done that
<mok0> minghua: but now I've learned it
<persia> tsmithe: I believe so, unless the other contributors have explicitly indicated that they don't mind being referred to as "Werner Schweer and others".
<tsmithe> ok
<minghua> mok0: Hope you can find a sponsor soon.  If you have trouble finding one, let me know.
<mok0> Have any of you guys experience with hacker attacks?
<mok0> minghua: ok, thx
<persia> mok0: Could you rephrase that?
<mok0> We've had a visit from a hacker that propagated some attack on a website in France
<mok0> I think he got in through webmin, but I am not sure
<tsmithe> persia, what about wrt to "Upstream Authors", if their names are given in "Copyright:"?
<persia> tsmithe: Authorship and Copyright are only coincidentally related.  For many large projects, there is considerable copyright assignment (most contributors assign copyright to the core team when sending patches).
<mok0> I got a message from CERT about it
<mok0> :-(
<tsmithe> persia, ok then. so i'm just going to give the primary author of the majority of the code, and list the copyright holders for other parts
<persia> mok0: Ah.  Someone penetrated your system.  I don't like the term hacker for that.  I recommend 1) getting affected systems offline, 2) putting in replacements, and 3) doing a forensic analysis to find how when and how so you can notice next time.
 * minghua had a system compromised before.
 * persia doesn't have anything useful to say about the remaining uncommented items on REVU, and would welcome an upload.
<minghua> I'm not the admin, though.  And it was a remote xen machine, so we simply reinstalled it.
<persia> minghua: reinstall without forensics can often mean renewed exploit
<minghua> persia: True.  But it was not my decision.
<minghua> persia: And that machine was a bit behind on security updates when it got compromised.
<cprov-out> imbrandon: sorry, pretend I'm not really here, but about PPA removals,  you have to start uploading new stuff to trigger the cleanup procedures in your PPA.
<mok0> persia: yeah I agree that the term "hacker" has multiple meanings. I should've said a "script-kiddie"
<cprov-out> imbrandon: see a similar saga in https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/17826
<mok0> An inexperienced colleague installed webmin. I would *never* use it
 * cprov-out goes out again.
<mok0> mok0: I've run rkhunter and it doesn't find anything suspicious
<effie_jayx> how do I send a patch upstream?
<mok0> effie_jayx: Just attach it in an email
<mok0> effie_jayx: I prefer a -p0 patch from the top dir
<effie_jayx> mok0, what is the standard format for sending these patches upstream
<mok0> effie_jayx: output from diff -u
<mok0> effie_jayx: ... or diff -urN if you do the whole dir
<mok0> effie_jayx: I would think upstream wants separate patches for each file you have modified
<effie_jayx> mok0,  I'll give it a wack
<effie_jayx> and I shall let you know later
<effie_jayx> I am hunting for a bug :D
<mok0> effie_jayx: I'll be on the  channel for a while
<effie_jayx> mok0,  great :D
<mok0> effie_jayx: I enjoy reading your blog, btw!
<effie_jayx> mok0,  it was a suggestion and I really haven't a clue as to howto... is there some doc I can read?
<mok0> effie_jayx: ??
<mok0> effie_jayx: you mean how to diff?
<effie_jayx> mok0,  yes
<mok0> effie_jayx: You can do it in a couple of ways. Either, directory wise, or on a per-file basis
<persia> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix has some basic guidelines on running diff.
<mok0> So, either you have 2 parallel directories, foo/ and foo-orig/ , say
<mok0> I usually just make a copy of the file I am fixing -> foo.c.orig
<mok0> effie_jayx: If you compare 2 dirs, you need the -r switch on diff
<effie_jayx> mmkey
 * persia tends to do it by directories, so as not to have to start over if more than one file needs an update.
<effie_jayx> sounds easy
<StevenK> Possibly -NP, too, depending on how complex the changes are
<mok0> effie_jayx: Try it, with a dummy file created for the purpose
 * mok0 prefers diffs on a per-file basis
<mok0> you can always cat the patches together
<mok0> lsdiff is a nice tool for looking in diffs
<effie_jayx> ok... when I say upstream... it is ... debian... or the team that distributes the software?
<persia> mok0: Maybe, but cat doesn't track directories if they aren't at the same level, whereas splitdiff always works.
<mok0> effie_jayx: team
<mok0> persia: you are right
 * persia hugs patchutils
<mok0> :-)
<mok0> effie_jayx: Once you get comfortable with diffs (alias patches) you start thing in those terms
<mok0> s/thing/thinking
<effie_jayx> I see :D
<mok0> effie_jayx: a bit of nomenclature: a "-p1 patch" is one that is based _above_ the top level
<mok0> effie_jayx: and a "-p0 patch" is one that is based _at_ the toplevel dir
<mok0> effie_jayx: (top-level == the one that has debian/)
 * persia advocates -p1 patches as easiest to use
<effie_jayx> I would like to know more about levels and stuff
<effie_jayx> let me check my facts
<effie_jayx> I have the original directory
<effie_jayx> and the one I modified
<effie_jayx> I do a diff between those directories
<mok0> diff -uNr orig/ modif/ will give you a -p1 patch
<effie_jayx> ok
<zul> imbrandon: is your request from donations going to actually work?
<effie_jayx> I am trying it know
<mok0> effie_jayx: when you have the diff, you should try and see if it works. Make a copy of the orig directory in /tmp
<persia> I think it's a neat idea for collecting for a large present, and am very curious to see how it works.
<mok0> effie_jayx: then: cd /tmp; patch < your-diff.patch
<effie_jayx> persia, it has helped people pay off large debts
<effie_jayx> persia,  http://www.savekaryn.com/
<persia> effie_jayx: I was specifically referring to the use of www.fundable.com, but in the abstract, yes.
<mok0> persia: Wow, that could be a huge scam
<mok0> persia: You have time to discuss my theseus upload?
<persia> mok0: Yes, but not huge volumes.  Can you remind me of the URL?
<effie_jayx> mok0,  I have done the patch and I tested it...
<effie_jayx> quite lenghty
<mok0> effie_jayx: did it work?
<effie_jayx> yes
<mok0> persia: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=theseus
<mok0> effie_jayx: :)
<effie_jayx> mok0,  thanks ... :D lots info just one bug
<persia> mok0: OK.  Let's go through my comments.  Any questions about #1?
<mok0> persia: ad 1) should I make a new entry in changelog, promoting from ..ubuntu1~ppa1 -> ...ubuntu1 ??
<persia> Right.
<mok0> persia: I had the discussion about the lengthy changelog with someone here, and the conclusion was, that if the package has been published on a PPA, then you need to retain the changelog
<persia> mok0: OK.  I can accept that, but I'm not very happy about it.  Note that if your package is accepted into Debian, this will all be lost.  My main objection is that I don't consider PPAs trustworthy or authoritative, and would prefer a policy of wiping so as never to have to adjudicate between competing PPAs.
<mok0> persia: you mean debian will trunkate the changelog at the point it gets incorporated?
<mok0> truncate
<persia> mok0: The Debian policy is to generate a new changelog for inclusion in Debian.  On rare occasions this isn't done, but it's standard practice.
<persia> s/policy/practice/
<mok0> persia: I have seen that they retain comments for all the uploads though
<persia> mok0: Depends on the sponsor, but often, yes.
<mok0> persia: even before it is accepted.
<mok0> persia: ad 10-11) I think this belongs in rules
<mok0> persia: If the original makefile had had provisions for installing, I would have used that to install directly into the package build dir
<persia> mok0: Why not just add dh_install in rules, and create debian/package.install?
<persia> Also, why not use dh_installdirs in rules, and create debian/package.dirs?
<mok0> persia: I really don
<mok0> I really don't like the debhelper scripts all that much
<persia> These are fairly standard, as it makes it easier to read, but if you don't like debhelper, they can be skipped.
<mok0> persia: I could also patch the make file to do an install, but that seems pretty silly, when I can do it from rules
<persia> mok0: Although, in that case, I'd recommend not using dh_installdocs.  It's the mix that is confusing.
 * mok0 looks
<mok0> persia: it's gone
<persia> You've also dh_installman and dh_installchangelogs.
<persia> Not according to http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/theseus-0711171510/theseus-1.1.5/debian/rules
 * mok0 re-looks
<mok0> Ah
<mok0> I don't need installdocs
<mok0> because of 9)
<persia> You're using it to install README (but yes, because of 9) )
<mok0> I got rid of it
<persia> OK.  installchangelogs & installman?
<mok0> persia: like you say, it's just the manpage
<mok0> those I need, I think
<mok0> but they have no package.* files associated with them
<persia> mok0: Well, I'd argue that if you're not using debhelper much, you should use install -m for those as well.
<mok0> persia: hmm. So using some of the dh_install* scripts means you have to use dh_install for the rest?
<persia> mok0: No.  I just personally feel it's better to be consistent.  If you really don't want to, I shan't make you.  Lack of advocation was for more significant issues: I just list everything I find in case the packager wants to make me happy.
<mok0> persia: It's no big deal for me, I just want to understand how to best make a good package
<mok0> persia: personally, I find looking at rules gives a good picture of the flow of things
<persia> mok0: I believe the best package is consistent.  Basically raw, all debhelper, or all CDBS.  I don't really like DBS or yada, or any of the others.
<persia> mok0: Sure, and there are many well-packaged packages that do it all in rules.
<mok0> persia: OK, makes sense. I'll work on it. Finally, I have a question concerning 12)
<persia> Yes?
<mok0> persia: I don't think the version no is incorporated in upstreams tarball
<mok0> persia: and then watch isn't of much use
<mok0> http://www.theseus3d.org/
<persia> mok0: Hmm..  You're right.  That's annoying.  In that case, I encourage to you request that upstream does include a version in their tarballs so we can watch for the latest version and be sure to keep up to date.  In the mean time, you might want a get-orig-source; rule to use wget to construct the orig.tar.gz.
<mok0> persia: ok, I think I just made a link
<persia> You put a link in debian/copyright which is required, and have a bug for no watch file (which you can't help).  get-orig-source: is encouraged, but optional.
<mok0> persia: you mean I create a bug report in LP?
<persia> mok0: No need.  It will show on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.php
<mok0> persia: Ah.
<persia> (with 403 freinds - all packagers are encouraged to try to create watch files for these, and update them if required).
<mok0> persia: I add put the full URL to the tarball in copyright?
<persia> mok0: A full URL is preferable.  A website with a link is acceptable.
<mok0> persia: I have a good communication with upstream, so it may be fixed in the future
<persia> mok0: Excellent.  That makes it a lot easier to keep the software up to date.
<mok0> persia: well thanks, that takes care of it. I'll work on the package and upload it ASAÃ
<mok0> ooops ASAP
<persia> mok0: Thanks.
<effie_jayx> mok0,  I patch the files and it ask many questions
<effie_jayx> like ... what files to patch
<ScottK> personally I think the ppa changelog should go.
<mok0> ScottK: so all my various fixes to get the package to work properly, I just zap that?
<mok0> ScottK: I can do that
<mok0> effie_jayx: try patch -p1
<mok0> effie_jayx: It has to do it without asking questions.
<effie_jayx> it also complained at me not having priviledges
<Hobbsee> ...not having priviledges?
<effie_jayx> just fixed it...
<effie_jayx> I had made a new copy as root
<effie_jayx> dummy me
<Hobbsee> heh ;)
<effie_jayx> done
<effie_jayx> it paches 5 files
<effie_jayx> before I got confused with 5 files...
<mok0> effie_jayx: you should be able to: tar -xzf orig.tar.gz; patch < effie.patch; and it should work no questions asked
 * txwikinger is confused
<effie_jayx> mok0,  you said I should send this to the developer
<Hobbsee> mok0: incorrect.
<mok0> Hobbsee: elaborate, please
<Hobbsee> mok0: you should be able to apply patches using the debian/rules apply-patches (iirc), but your statement does not cover where there are multiple patches modifying the same file, and thereofre changing line numbers.
<mok0> effie_jayx: yes, if you want
<Hobbsee> (which is where patch ordering comes in)
<mok0> Hobbsee: he is making a diff -urN patch
<Hobbsee> mok0: hopefully against the already-patched source?
<Hobbsee> mok0: or just the unpacked source?
<mok0> Hobbsee: against the original source from upstream. He wants to send them
<Hobbsee> mok0: oh, okay, then that's fine
<mok0> Hobbsee: yup :-)
<Hobbsee> mok0: i thought you were talking about adding it to an ubuntu package
<mok0> Hobbsee: no, he just wants to send a patch upstream
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<Hobbsee> this is what you get, when you come in on the end of a conversation
<mok0> I know the feeling ;-)
<mok0> Hobbsee: I may not know ubuntu packaging very well, but I have > 20 years of experience with programming for unix/linux
<Hobbsee> mok0: :)
<mok0> Hobbsee: are you employed by canonical?
<Hobbsee> mok0: unfortunately not.
<mok0> Hobbsee: I thought they were keen to hire experienced developers
<Hobbsee> mok0: i don't code python and such.  yet
<Hobbsee> mok0: you also have to be wlel known, outside of the community, it appears
<mok0> Hobbsee: Like, within Debian?
<txwikinger> what should be provided for a package that needs to be updated from debian?
<Hobbsee> mok0: anywhere but ubuntu, it appears
<txwikinger> a debdiff, or the new .dsc file?
<mok0> Hobbsee: you have to author some essential, small and beautiful piece of python that they will desperately need maintained
<Hobbsee> mok0: heh :)
<mok0> Hobbsee: Like a python replacement for debhelper
<mok0> (which s*x bigtime)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<mok0> persia, are you there still?
<txwikinger> when and how often are packages synced from debian?
<bddebian> Isn't there some option to ls to just give me back the files or dirs without the path if I do: ls /foo/bar/* ?
<geser> why not use find?
<geser> txwikinger: till DIF regularly when an archive admin starts the script, after DIF on request
<cbx33> hey peeps
<cbx33> long time no see
<txwikinger> geser: So I don't hav to do anything when a bug gets fixed by the newest version in debian?
<txwikinger> I just wait until it gets updated and note it in the bug?
<bddebian> geser: if I do: find $(CURDIR) foo-*  I am still going to get the path
<cbx33> what do people do for media servers round here?
<cbx33> I want my music available on one machine so I can stream it easily to others
<protonchris> cbx33: check out jinzora
<protonchris> I don't use it myself, but I have a friend that really likes it.
<cbx33> hmm
<mok0> Why does dpatch have to change the mode of the debian/patches/*.dpatch files?
<mok0> I think it's a bug
<tsmithe> is there a list of .desktop file "Category"s anywhere?
<tsmithe> actually, don't worry
<RainCT> tsmithe: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<cbx33> gnump3d seems quite good
<tsmithe> RainCT, thanks
<geser> bddebian: then use "(cd /foo/bar; ls *)"
<geser> txwikinger: exactly
<mok0> Is there a way to know inside debian/rules what version is being built?
<geser> txwikinger: but check before if it has no ubuntu changes (can get synced) or needs a merge
<txwikinger> geser: It doesn't need any changes
<RainCT> tsmithe: I've many link on the bottom of my wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RainCT/Contributions, you might find some of them usefull
<geser> txwikinger: than wait, if it's still not synced after DIF (around Dec 13th) then you need to file a sync request
<txwikinger> ok.. thanks geser
<ScottK> mok0: That's what I would recommend.  I'd say debian/changelog is the history of the package in Ubuntu and PPA is not Ubuntu.
<bddebian> geser: I got it, thx
<mok0> ScottK: persia complained about it too, so I've zapped it
<mok0> ScottK: perhaps you can answer my question 6 min ago
<ScottK> mok0: I think we ought to have a discussion about this and come to a rough consensus at a MOTU meeting and then document the results.  Would you be willing to raise this as a meeting topic.
 * ScottK reads the backscroll.
<RainCT> Can someone please merge ~rainct/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev into ~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk? (changelog here: http://tinyurl.com/2t6b5x)
<RainCT> TheMuso: ^
<mok0> ScottK: sure
<ScottK> mok0: There is no easy way.  Packages I've seen that do that use (IIRC) sed and regex's to extract it from debian/changelog.
<mok0> ScottK: I am writing a get-orig-source rule to place a tarball without a version number in the correct orig.tar.gz files
<mok0> ScottK: OK; I was wondering whether there were some symbols defined
<ScottK> mok0: Not AFAIK.
<mok0> ScottK: I'll grep it out of changelog, then
<ScottK> mok0: Good luck.  That's the only way I know of, but it always seems fragile to me.
<mok0> ScottK: yeah very flakey
<mok0> ScottK: ... and they didn't exactly make changelog easy to parse
<ScottK> mok0: Of course not.  If it was easy it wouldn't be any fun.
<stdin> mok0: something like "head -1 debian/changelog | awk '{print $2}' | sed 's/(// ; s/)//' " _should_ work
<mok0> ScottK: :-)
<stdin> you'll have to get rid of the debian/ubuntu revision too I guess
<mok0> stdin: I can grep for the chars between '(' and '-'
<ScottK> imbrandon: I commented on your blog post.  Thanks for taking some spears on this.
<ScottK> mok0: As long as upstream will never release a version number with a '-' in it.
<stdin> maybe change " sed 's/(// ; s/)//' " to " sed 's/(// ; s/)// ; s/-[0-9]*.*//' "
<jdong> stdin: jesus....
<jdong> stdin: dpkg-parsechangelog.
<mok0> ScottK: as long as it's not put in changelog
<stdin> jdong: but... that would be easy...
<jdong> LOL
<stdin> jdong: (and thanks for letting me know about dpkg-parsechangelog) :p
<jdong> well you still have to grep and sed once with dpkg-parsechangelog to get the Version: line
<jdong> but it's a MUCH easier match!
<mok0> jdong: thanks, but it doesn't solve my problem, it only becomes a different problem :-)
<jdong> mok0: what was the original problem?
<mok0> To extract the version number of the package from within rules
<jdong> mok0: use dpkg-parsechangelog.... *investigates exact line*
<mok0> jdong: I still have to isolate the version from the release
<jdong> mok0: oh, you want only the upstream version?
<mok0> jdong: yeah
<jdong> mok0: dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n 's/^Version: //p' | sed 's/-[^-]*$//'
<jdong> mok0: that'll remove the last dashed item to the end from the version
<jdong> which SHOULD be an okay heuristic for upstream ver
<mok0> jdong: Yup, it works
<stdin> show off...
<mok0> jdong: should be an option to dpkg-parsechangelog,
<imbrandon> ScottK: yea, and i likely ruffled some feathers, but oh well /* goes back to sleep for a few hours */
<jdong> XD
<jdong> mok0: yeah it'd be a nice touch to have more dpkg-parechangelog  params :)
 * jdong hugs stdin 
<mok0> jdong: but if you use --version you get something quite unexpected ;-)
<jdong> mok0: hehe what can I say, it's a self-centered command :)
<mok0> jdong: hehe what can I say, debhelper sux
<mok0> should be rewritten i python
<mok0> s/i/in
<mok0> ... in fact, rules should be a python script
<stdin> then how would make parse it?
<stdin> and not everyone knows python :p
<jdong> stdin: someone will write a pymake :)
<mok0> stdin: it wouldn't. The python parser would
<jdong> stdin: oh oh oh ! setup.py!
<jdong> XD
<stdin> I barely understand Makefiles, don't make me learn python too...
<mok0> I'll write up a whitepaper for it one day.
<jdong> stdin: meh they have a lot in common
<jdong> stdin: first off, both are anal about indents.
<mok0> stdin: You'd just add statements to customize your package
<imbrandon> everything != python, python is a great tool, but not good for EVERYTHING
<jdong> imbrandon: how... dare you! ;-)
<stdin> I may think about learning python yet, just for PyKDE4
<mok0> You mean, like make does not use white space in the syntax ;-)
<stdin> I'm packaging it, may as well learn how to use it
<jdong> mok0: no, it's just more picky about what kind of whitespace it demands.
<jdong> mok0: and displays utterly nonsensical errors when you put spaces instead.
<mok0> IMHO, using make to run the rules script is a mis-use of make
<mok0> jdong: exactly
<mok0> make is for building with complex dependencies and checking for changed files etc
<mok0> with all due respect to the original designers of debian
<mok0> they wanted to use standard tools which is cool
<jdong> meh it seems to work so far
<tsmithe> revu days are mondays, right?
<mok0> tsmithe: remember it's already monday :-)
<tsmithe> you're right
<tsmithe> what are the chances of my first upload being advocated twice?
<tsmithe> (not first ever package, mind)
<mok0> tsmithe: are you taking bets?
<tsmithe> if you want to lose, then, yes.
<tsmithe> woop: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mscore
<mok0> L8R
<dsop> do i need to run a special command to install/use a watch file for my debian package, or is it enough that there is a debian/watch (or must it named watch.ex?)
<bddebian> It should be debian/watch
<bddebian> You can use uscan -report-status to test that it works
<dsop> yeah it works perfectly
<dsop> i just wonder if i need dh_installdocs or something like that for the watch file
<bddebian> Nope
<bddebian> gencontrol installs it iirc
<dsop> okay thanks a lot, as always. hopefully my package then fits all requirements
<dsop> bddebian: are you are revu admin?
<bddebian> dsop: No, sorry
<bluekuja> dsop, some problems with REVU?
<dsop> bluekuja: yes
<bluekuja> dsop, like?
<dsop> bluekuja: an admin synced my key from launchpad, but i never got a mail about an account. the revu system knows my email, but if i try to recover my password, there is no string displayed to decrypt
<dsop> bluekuja: but i'm allowed to upload my signed packages into the system.
<bluekuja> dsop, did you use two different mails for uploading/requesting-a-pwd?
<dsop> bluekuja: no, i checked that twice
<bluekuja> dsop, what's your mail?
<dsop> sn_@gmx.net
<bluekuja> dsop, you're right
<bluekuja> dsop, http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=sn_@gmx.net
<apachelogger_> hmmmmm
<apachelogger_> Initial release.  Closes: #172309
<apachelogger_> is that actually going to work?
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, is the bug on LP?
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, that works for Debian BTS only
<apachelogger_> bug 172309
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 172309 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] gcutils" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172309
<apachelogger_> dsop: please change to (LP: #172309)
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, LP: #bugid will work not closes
<bluekuja> ;)
<dsop> apachelogger_: k, i'll change that
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: thanks :)
<apachelogger_> I wasn't sure whether it works without LP
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, np :)
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, if you gonna upload that remember to check .changes file
<bluekuja> to see if Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed is there
<bluekuja> if not get back to check what's wrong on the changelog
<apachelogger_> ok
<apachelogger_> persia will have to give his advocate first anyway
<bluekuja> yep
<bluekuja> dsop, can you try with another mail please?
<tsmithe> could a kde user take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mscore-0712021810/mscore-0.7.0.1/debian/mscore.desktop and tell me why it appears in lost+found in the menu without an icon? it works for me, with the icon as expected, in xfce
<bluekuja> dsop, actually I cannot generate you a random pwd
<dsop> apachelogger_: changed, thx.
<dsop> bluekuja: what do you mean with another email? I uploaded my package with that email, etc.
<bluekuja> siretart, around?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: very good question
 * apachelogger_ investigates
<tsmithe> i suppose the icon problem is because the kde theme doesn't provide the icon, whereas gnome/xfce do
<apachelogger_> well
<apachelogger_> true
<tsmithe> but lost+found?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: does the software ship with an icon?
<tsmithe> it's got lots of categories
<tsmithe> apachelogger_, no, sadly
<tsmithe> and i'm not an artist, so i won't be making one ;)
<apachelogger_> hm
<apachelogger_> well
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: you can generate a seperate desktop file for kde
<tsmithe> if you wanna test a built package: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10693387/mscore_0.7.0.1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
<apachelogger_> using one of kde's stock icons
<tsmithe> and put them both in /usr/share/applications?
<tsmithe> i'd prefer one size fits all, naturally
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: yes
<apachelogger_> OnlyShowIn=KDE for the kde desktop file
<tsmithe> hmm
<apachelogger_> NotShowIn=KDE for the other one
<tsmithe> what would be an appropriate category/icon for kde?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: can you please upload the gnome/xfce icon?
<tsmithe> ok. where to?
<apachelogger_> anywhere ;-)
<apachelogger_> just need to have a look at it
<tsmithe> "tango-icon-theme" provides /usr/share/icons/Tango/22x22/categories/applications-multimedia.png
<apachelogger_> oh
<apachelogger_> I think I have tango on my laptop
 * apachelogger_ heads over
<bluekuja> dsop, we should wait siretart
<bluekuja> dsop, or Hobbsee
<dsop> bluekuja: okay no problem.
<bluekuja> dsop, so we can have a random pwd or we can check what's the problem
<tsmithe> if it's revu day, can i ask for a review?
<tsmithe> package is mscore
<aplg|mobile> tsmithe: I'd go with multimedia for kde
<tsmithe> just "multimedia"?
<aplg|mobile> tsmithe: yep
<tsmithe> for the icon?
 * aplg|mobile nods
<cyberix> What happens to packages that get two advocates in REVU?
<bddebian> It should get uploaded
<apachelogger_> or maybe it's damned :P
<bddebian> Probably that too ;-P
<tsmithe> apachelogger_, what about the category?
<aplg|mobile> checking right now
<cyberix> Does this happen automagically?
<bluekuja> cyberix, no
<cyberix> Who does uploading?
<apachelogger_> a MOTU
<bluekuja> cyberix, maybe a developer? :)
<apachelogger_> probably the one who gave the 2nd advocate
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, exactly
<aplg|mobile> tsmithe: Categories=Qt;AudioVideo;Sequencer;Midi;AudioVideoEditing;Music;
<aplg|mobile> for some strange reason kde3 can't use the Audio categorie
<apachelogger_> oh
<bluekuja> cyberix, why do you ask?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: that's just not spec compatible
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: if you use Audio -> Desktop entry must include AudioVideo as well
<bluekuja> cyberix, is there a package with already two acks in REVU?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-1.0.html
<tsmithe> can I use both Audio and AudioVideo?
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: well, you can use just AV, but if you stick with A you have to include AV as well
<tsmithe> ok
<cyberix> bluekuja: Not yet. Just trying to understand "how it all works".
<bluekuja> cyberix, oh ok :)
<tsmithe> then i can stick to one .desktop file only, and have AudioVideo as the category and multimedia as the icon, and it works on all platforms
<bluekuja> cyberix, usually a package needs two ACKs for a certain upload
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: there is no multimedia icon in gnome/xfce, is there?
<bluekuja> cyberix, so if someone gave you a +1 on a upload, and someone doesnt
<bluekuja> cyberix, it will require the first ack to be given again
<bluekuja> on the next upload
<tsmithe> can i have Icon=applications-multimedia;multimedia?
<apachelogger_> *shrug*
 * apachelogger_ tests
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: nope, doesn't work
<tsmithe> damn
<cyberix> bluekuja: ok
<tsmithe> well gnome provides a "multimedia" icon, but it looks wrong
<tsmithe> and damn, i just started an upload
<apachelogger_> :|
<apachelogger_> tsmithe: you should suggest upstream to get himself an icon ;-)
<apachelogger_> Oo
<apachelogger_> dsop: how did you manage to have diffent md5sums for orig.tar.gz and your released tar.gz?
<dsop> apachelogger_: ????
<dsop> good question
<dsop> apachelogger_: you mean the one from the downloads.experimentalworks.net?
<apachelogger_> yes
<dsop> maybe i forgot to push my git tags, cause the releases are generated directly from git
<apachelogger_> dsop: well, for me it's no big issue since the tarballs are identical, but I don't know how emmet.hikory thinks about this
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, lol
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: persia usually finds some issue in packages I advocated ;-)
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, I've noticed that some days ago browsing REVU
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> dsop, please clean debhelper cruft in rules
<dsop> bluekuja: whats no necessary? hmm the shlibs...
<bluekuja> dsop, I mean commented stuff
<apachelogger_> dsop: rules line 24: you don't touch a configure-stamp, so no need to remove it
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: there is none
<apachelogger_> only actual comments
<apachelogger_> dsop: dh_shlibdeps can be removed
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, check better please
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: ?
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, do you see commented stuff in debian/rules?
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: are you looking at an old version?
<apachelogger_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/gcutils-0712021930/gcutils-0.0.2/debian/rules
<apachelogger_> dsop: you could remove the intro stuff though
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, yes, that's what I mean
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, that stuff is all commented out
<bluekuja> so it's not needed..
<dsop> apachelogger_: okay
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: well, should dsop remove all comments?
<dsop> hmm that md5sum stuff is crazy. everytime i generate a new version out of git, the md5sum differs
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2429/
<apachelogger_> dsop: very strange
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: ok, I agree on that :)
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, ^^
<apachelogger_> though #export DH_VERBOSE=1 might be handy
<dsop> bluekuja: even the DH_VERBOSE line?
<bluekuja> dsop, yeah, you can leave that if you want
<bluekuja> it's your choice after all
 * apachelogger_ likes to keep the verbose line around
<bluekuja> dsop, remove binary-indep stuff
<bluekuja> dsop, with comments like nothing to do by default
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> dsop, remove *targets* only
<apachelogger_> dsop: don't forget to remove it at the very bottom as well
<bluekuja> dsop, not the rule itself
<bluekuja> dsop, the files are not tagged with a license header
<bluekuja> so they cannot hit the archive
<bluekuja> would you mind fixing it? :)
<dsop> okay, so i'll remove the targets and ... whats that with the license header?
<dsop> i should prepend every file with a license header?
<dsop> btw. thanks for the help..
<dsop> bluekuja: so an empty binary-indep rule, that doesnot execute any targets?
<bluekuja> dsop, a license header should be placed in every file
 * apachelogger_ demands license header for everything ;-)
<bluekuja> dsop, yes, leave the rule, clean the targets
<bluekuja> remove the comments around the rule
<bluekuja> every file should be as clean as possible
<dsop> yes, everthing done, i just have to add the license header to every file in  debian/, and to check this md5 sum thing
<bluekuja> dsop, ?
<bluekuja> dsop, you don't have to add license headers inside maintainers dir
<bluekuja> dsop, but on upstream source
<dsop> bluekuja: ah okay you think about license header in the *.sh files?
<bluekuja> dsop, yes
<bluekuja> dsop, why not GPL?
<dsop> bluekuja: because i prefer bsd/mit
<bluekuja> dsop, kk
<mok0> What should I do about a merge that does not build in hardy due to missing dependencies, but builds fine in gutsy?
<TheMuso> Hey MOTUs.
<pochu> heya TheMuso
<mok0> What should I do about a merge that does not build in hardy due to missing dependencies, but builds fine in gutsy?
<mok0> (asking again)
<apachelogger_> uhm
<apachelogger_> TheMuso: ahoy
 * apachelogger_ gives TheMuso a cookie
<apachelogger_> mok0: what did happen to the dep?
<TheMuso> apachelogger_: Congratulations.
<apachelogger_> TheMuso: hehe, thanks :)
<mok0> apachelogger_: libgoffice-0-dev was not found in hardy
<mok0> ... and libgtk-2.0 or some such
<mok0> Perhaps I should just leave it pending until the build-depends resolve
<apachelogger_> hmmm
<apachelogger_> mok0: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goffice
<apachelogger_> it appears to be named libgoffice-0-5-dev  now
<Ubulette> jdong, what's happening with x264 ?
<mok0> apachelogger_: wtf?
<apachelogger_> mok0: talk to gpocentek, he did the merge
<Ubulette> jdong, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/x264/1:0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu2
<mok0> apachelogger_: It should not be named like that
<mok0> apachelogger_: Actually, libgoffice-dev is the correct
<mok0> apachelogger_:  no so version in dev packages
<Ubulette> jdong, sources are there, all bins have been removed once again
<apachelogger_> yeah
<apachelogger_> mok0: feel free to take all of gpocentek's cookies ;-)
<mok0> apachelogger_:  hehe
<apachelogger_> the interesting thing is in debian it's also -0-5-
<apachelogger_> http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/goffice
<mok0> apachelogger_:  I've never met gpocentek  herer
<apachelogger_> gpocentek: please tell mok0 about the goffice merge ;-)
<mok0> apachelogger_: arrrgh it comes from debian
 * apachelogger_ just hopes the debian package mok0 wants to merge is depending on 0-5, else it might be hell confusing now
<mok0> apachelogger_:  I should have been able to find this out myself, sorry for bringing it up
<apachelogger_> no problem
 * mok0 will continue merging effort
<dsop> apachelogger_, bluekuja: done, hopefully...
<dsop> apachelogger_: i figured out, that tar xzvf foo.tar.gz foo/ always produces different md5sums even the content of foo/ doesnt change
<apachelogger_> Oo
<apachelogger_> strange
<apachelogger_> so, who's going to testbuild?
<mok0> apachelogger_: re: theseus, what's this about the needs-packaging bug?
 * apachelogger_ already did for almost every upload :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: Is it new policy? I've never had to before
<dsop> apachelogger_: i know :), i'm really sorry that i need about 10 uploads. pretty hard to create a good package if it's your first time...
<apachelogger_> mok0: new policy, you have to create a needs-packaging bug in launchpad then assign yourself to it, then paste a revu upload and set the status to in progress, you have to close the bug in your changelog entry with (LP: #bugnumber)
<apachelogger_> then when a motu uploads it, he/she sets the status to fix commit
<apachelogger_> ed
<mok0> apachelogger_: so, a bug with no package, I guess?
<apachelogger_> once it got past new queue it gets automagically changed to fix released
<mok0> apachelogger_:  cool
<mok0> apachelogger_: I'll do it now
<apachelogger_> mok0: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/173103
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173103 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] kirocker" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<apachelogger_> dsop: hehe, not your fault if people keep complaining ;-)
 * emgent heya
<apachelogger_> so
<apachelogger_> dsop: I'll give you the 2nd advocate, maybe someone finds something :P
<apachelogger_> still looks good to me
<bluekuja> dsop, perfect ;)
<apachelogger_> dsop: one thing: you might want to change the download location in copyright to http://downloads.experimentalworks.net
<mok0> apachelogger_: Done. But now my revu-upload has a "needs work" icon :-/
<mok0> apachelogger_: of course I can re-upload with the changelog change
<bluekuja> dsop, well, that's not a *very* good header
<bluekuja> ^^
<apachelogger_> you have to re-upload with the changelog change
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: better than none, isn't it? :P
 * apachelogger_ should start learning -.-
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, lol, yes, better than none, but still wrong :)
<apachelogger_> ^_^
<bluekuja> dsop, maybe you might want to look at how other upstreams handle it
<bluekuja> e.g with the GPL
<pwnguin> http://jldugger.livejournal.com/1968.html  <-- comments welcome
<mok0> apachelogger_: Is this the right syntax for changelog:
<mok0>  Initial release (LP: #173506)
<apachelogger_> yep
<mok0> thx
<mok0> will re-upload
<mok0> apachelogger_: yay, now I can harvest som karma from contributing new packages :-)
<mok0> s/som/some/
<bluekuja> mok0, unfortunately you get no karma on LP for that
<mok0> bluekuja: grrr
<bluekuja> mok0, there's a bug open and hopefully it will be fixed soon
<mok0> bluekuja: ah, but _then_ I'll get karma, yes?
<bluekuja> mok0, yep
 * mok0 lusts for karam
<mok0> karma
<apachelogger_> lol
<bluekuja> mok0, only when you get a package uploaded of course :)
<mok0> hehe
<bluekuja> mok0, you won't receive karma for sending packages on REVU
<bluekuja> :P
<mok0> bluekuja:  I know, but for fixing bugs on LP
<mok0> which I didn't before :-D
<bluekuja> lol
<mok0> It makes sense to let things pivot around LP, though
<mok0> Although I hate the UI
<bluekuja> mok0, which package do you have on revu?
<mok0> bluekuja:  theseus, and then torque, which needs work
<bluekuja> mok0, link for theseus
<mok0> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=theseus
<bluekuja> mok0, this evening me and apachelogger_ are inspired to check some packages
<bluekuja> so you're lucky
<bluekuja> hehe
<mok0> bluekuja: cool
<mok0> It's a mono-package package
<bluekuja> k
<mok0> been reviewed once by persia
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, take a look at it as well
<bluekuja> mok0, +The ncbi_math.h and ncbi_math.c are in the public domain, and distrbuted
<bluekuja> fix that
<bluekuja> mok0, but wait more comments
<mok0> bluekuja:  it's written in copyright
<bluekuja> mok0, yes
<bluekuja> mok0, remove commented stuff from debian rules
<mok0> bluekuja: ok
<dsop> bluekuja: yes, but i thing its enough. i don't want to include 30lines of header into a small shell script
<mok0> bluekuja: you mean the comments at the top?
<bluekuja> mok0, yes
<bluekuja> dsop, just your copyright there
<bluekuja> dsop, e.g Copyright (c) year-year name email
<bluekuja> or whatever
<mok0> bluekuja:  the public domain files, well enough documented?
<bluekuja> mok0, huh?
<bluekuja> mok0, also why do you remove configure-stamp if there isnt a configure rule?
<mok0> bluekuja:  you said something about the ncbi_math etc.
<bluekuja> mok0, plus configure seems to be on PHONY as well
<bluekuja> mok0, no, comments in debian/rules
 * mok0 is confused
<bluekuja> mok0, ah yea
<bluekuja> mok0, that's in the copyright
<bluekuja> distrbuted/ distributed
<mok0> bluekuja: Arghh using the spellchecker is on my list
<bluekuja> ^^
<bluekuja> mok0, I think comments like "# Compile THESEUS!" are not really needed^^
<mok0> bluekuja: you are right.
<mok0> bluekuja: so, you don't like comments in debian/rules at all, huh
<bluekuja> mok0, yes
<bluekuja> mok0, only if really needed to explain a certain command or rule
<bluekuja> but that's not your case
<bluekuja> mok0, remove configure stuff
<bluekuja> in clean, PHONY
<mok0> bluekuja: so "clean up after build process" is ok
<bluekuja> mok0, adding that in the clean rule?
<mok0> bluekuja:  no it's there
<bluekuja> mok0, remove that please
<mok0> bluekuja: sure thing :-)
<mok0> bluekuja: only 1 comment left in rules
<mok0> bluekuja: plus my standard #### at the end :-)
<bluekuja> mok0, is that needed?
<bluekuja> :)
<mok0> bluekuja: it's my tag :-)
<bluekuja> mok0, lol
<bluekuja> mok0, remove that!
<bluekuja> mok0, jk
<bluekuja> ;)
<mok0> bluekuja: aye-aye sir
<bluekuja> lol
<mok0> bluekuja: I'll put my emacs stuff before eof, then
<bluekuja> mok0, if you want to keep that "tag", you can
<bluekuja> don't worry
 * mok0 thanks bluekuja :-)
<bluekuja> mok0, :)
<mok0> bluekuja: so, I've only made mods to rules, anything else?
<bluekuja> mok0, that's the only file, I've checked for now
<bluekuja> :)
<mok0> Cool
<bluekuja> mok0, need to finish something and then I go to sleep
<mok0> I'll reupload
<bluekuja> mok0, did you note configure stuff as well?
<mok0> remove configure from .PHONY?
<mok0> I did that
<apachelogger_> bluekuja: meh, so I have to revu again on my own -.-
 * apachelogger_ continues learning for his business economics exam
<bluekuja> apachelogger_, lol
<bluekuja> mok0, not only
<bluekuja> mok0, any configure related stuff
<mok0> bluekuja: theseus doesn't use configure
<mok0> bluekuja: It's upstreams handcrafted make
<mok0> file
<mok0> makefile
<bluekuja> mok0, that's why I said you to remove configure stuff from rules file
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> e.g in clean
<dcordero> hi
<mok0> Ah. Missed that. Now gone
<jdong> Ubulette: consult an archive admin regarding status of x264 -- I've heard it's STILL related to some LP bug....
<mok0> re-uploaded -> REVU
<mok0> bluekuja: Thanks a lot
<bluekuja> mok0, np
<bluekuja> mok0, have a good night
<mok0> bluekuja: You too
<bluekuja> mok0, tnx
<dsop> bluekuja, apachelogger_: okay another try....it's getting really hard :)
<dsop> after years of software development, i never thought that I'll feel as dumb as a kiddie
<crimsun> heh.  I think if you don't feel like a kid, then you're approaching software development incorrectly.
<apachelogger_> dsop: from being part of the amarok team, I can totally reproduce teh feeling as dumb as a kiddie part :P
<dsop> apachelogger_: while packaging or while developing? what are you developing in amarok, doc, engine, gui?
<apachelogger_> dsop: manging
<apachelogger_> in any kind
<apachelogger_> though, it doesn't really matter what you do @amarok you always have a very strange feeling while doing it ;-)
<dsop> hehe, same in the php dev team, where i'm involved
<dcordero> how do you know if a source packages need to create more than one .deb file? can someone tell me a example of program with various deb files?
<apachelogger_> dcordero: a library for example
<apachelogger_> in most cases you just need the library itself, but if you want to compile something or develop or both, you'll need the headers
<apachelogger_> so it makes sense to split into libfoobar0 and libfoobar-dev as the latter isn't needed all that much
<dcordero> i see
<dcordero> now i understand
<dcordero> thanks
<apachelogger_> you're welcome
<apachelogger_> mok0: ye know, I actually didn't intent on revuing theseus :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: I got a lot of input from bluekuja. I think the package is near ready to go.
<mok0> apachelogger_: Don't worry, I think I can get a couple of sponsors
<apachelogger_> mok0: oh, shall I turn nazi revu mode on? :P
<apachelogger_> then you'll see how ready it is ;-)
<jcastro> Mez: around?
<mok0> apachelogger_: I dare you :-)
<apachelogger_> mok0: standards-version: 3.7.2.2 please
<mok0> apachelogger_: I looked for it, where is it published?
<apachelogger_> mok0: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/index.html
<mok0> apachelogger_: ok, ok, it's 3.7.2.2 :-/
<apachelogger_> mok0: please insert an empty line before Upstream Author
<apachelogger_> and remove the 2nd one at the end of the author list
<apachelogger_> mok0: any specific reason to provide 4 mail addresses?
<mok0> apachelogger_: nah, I wasn't sure which one was the best one to use, but I do now, actually.
<apachelogger_> okay
<mok0> apachelogger_: I'll clean them
<mok0> apachelogger_: ... so 2 empty lines after author: section ?
<apachelogger_> nah
<apachelogger_> one
<apachelogger_> one before the actual statement Upstream Author:
<apachelogger_> right now at the end are 2, should be one
<mok0> apachelogger_: yes that looked dumb
<apachelogger_> totally :P
<apachelogger_> mok0: unnecessary white space in copyright's line 62
<mok0> apachelogger_: lol, that's nazi revuing alright
<apachelogger_> mok0: line 71 exceeds 80 characters
<apachelogger_> mok0: I told you so :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: space check done.
<apachelogger_> mok0: adding a copyright/license header to the getexamples might be a good idea
<mok0> apachelogger_: I was wondering about that. I sent the script upstream but he didn't put it in the tarball.
<apachelogger_> well, make it branded to you ;-)
<mok0> ... what about getvers.awk ?? :-)
<apachelogger_> not license worthy
<mok0> ap
<mok0> apachelogger_: WHAT? It's my greatest creation
<apachelogger_> omg, now that sounds pathetic -.-
<crimsun> if it means that much, note it as much in debian/copyright
<apachelogger_> mok0: it's up to you of course ;-)
<superm1_> argh what happened to x264?
<mok0> apachelogger_: I've never dealt with a nazi reviewer before, so better safe than sorry
<superm1_> jdong, did you steal it?
<apachelogger_> mok0: lol, good point
<crimsun> hmm?  It's at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/x264/1:0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu2
<superm1_> hm packages.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to think so for hardy
<crimsun> s/edge\.//, though I doubt you're not an LP beta member
<superm1_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=x264&searchon=names&subword=1&version=hardy&release=all
<superm1_> oh according to that changelog though it was accidently removed from the archive
<superm1_> that would explain it
<crimsun> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=x264
<superm1_> okay thanks :)
<crimsun> I also would refrain from using packages.uc for canonical status; lp is more current
<apachelogger_> mok0: awk: debian/getvers.awk: line 1: syntax error at or near ,
<superm1_> p.u.c is just a little quicker for me since i've got a little box in FF search bar that searches it.  i'll be mindful for that though
<mok0> apachelogger_: what awk are you using?
<crimsun> I'm surprised apachelogger_ hasn't gone pedantic on ^Description
<mok0> apachelogger_: works for me
 * mok0 shivers
<apachelogger_> crimsun: didn't read that yet :P
<apachelogger_> mok0: well, maybe my pbuilder is silly
<apachelogger_> mok0: nuke dh_link
<apachelogger_> doesn't do anything
<mok0> apachelogger_: right
<mok0> apachelogger_: fixperms neither, for that matter :-)
<apachelogger_> actually
<apachelogger_> fixperms does do something :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: perhaps it depends on the umask
<apachelogger_> *shrug*
<apachelogger_> better have permissions fixed than not :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: yeah
<apachelogger_> mok0: any good reasony for the ####?
<mok0> apachelogger_: it's my tag. bluekuja let me keep it ;-)
<apachelogger_> mok0: was he in nazi mode? :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: what's with the awk script?
<apachelogger_> mok0: why?
<norsetto> mok0: if your rules uses awk than you need it as a build-depends (its not part an essential package)
<mok0> apachelogger_: you talked about syntax error;
<apachelogger_> norsetto: that would explain my error I guess
<norsetto> mok0: or consider using mawk (which is an essential package)
<norsetto> mok0: or just use sed :-)
<mok0> norsetto: ah! thanks, good idea
 * jussi01 wonders what the qmake command for qt4 is in ubuntu?
<mok0> norsetto: I need a pipe, so with awk we only have to create 1 process.  :-)
<apachelogger_> jussi01: qmake-qt4
<mok0> norsetto: with sed I will need a pipe
<jussi01> apachelogger_: thank you
<apachelogger_> you're welcome
<norsetto> mok0: yes ... and ... are we short of them?
<apachelogger_> mok0: unnecessary white space in copyright file, line 17, 2007  Douglas
<jussi01> and remind me if you will which libs i need for qt4 -dev stuff?
<mok0> norsetto: nah, I just that I like awk a lot
<norsetto> mok0: well, then add it as a build-deps or use mawk
<mok0> apachelogger_: you mean between "2007" and "Douglas"?
<apachelogger_> yes
<apachelogger_> mok0: please update debianized time in copyright to the one in changelog
 * mok0 tests mawk
<mok0> apachelogger_: god damn
<apachelogger_> meh
<txwikinger> moo
<mok0> apachelogger_: it's dh_make's fault!
<apachelogger_> so kick it
<Seveas> dh_make is horrible
 * apachelogger_ uses his own templates
<apachelogger_> much faster
<apachelogger_> mok0: I'd rather not see rules, line 19, exceed 80 characters
<mok0> apachelogger_: you mean, if someone decides to punch it out on cards?
<apachelogger_> nah, if someone wants to edit it on a small console
<apachelogger_> mok0: 2 unnecessary white spaces in changelog, line 14
<apachelogger_> mok0: 1 unnecessary new line at the very end of control
 * apachelogger_ reads description
<apachelogger_> hum, is superpositioning actually a valid word?
<mok0> apachelogger_: yes
<mok0> apachelogger_: but perhaps not the best languae.
<mok0> language
<apachelogger_> well, IMO the description is too complex
<apachelogger_> should be very easy to understand, so that everyone can evaluate whether he/she wants to read the extended-description or not
<apachelogger_> personal opinion though
<mok0> apachelogger_: yeah, perhaps. It's a description for people who know what the program is for
<mok0> apachelogger_:  I'll see if I can improve it
<apachelogger_> mok0: which isn't really what a description is for, is it? :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: are you saying it's so people can decide that they don't want to use this program ;-)
<apachelogger_> kinda, it aims a very special audience
<mok0> apachelogger_: you are right. 'll work on it.
<ScottK> norsetto: I think the new elisa is a sync.  If you have a hopeful whoe could use the practice to check/test, please go for it.
<norsetto> scottk: why not assigning it to yourself as a mentor?
<norsetto> ScottK: wait, there is no bug report yet, right?
<ScottK> norsetto: Right.  I just saw it on DaD.
<mok0> apachelogger_:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2435/
<apachelogger_> very special purpose apps go priority extra, right?
<apachelogger_> mok0: looks good
<ScottK> apachelogger_: Not exactly.
<norsetto> scottk: the best would be to send an email to ubuntu-motu-mentors, but since you refuse to do that, just send it to ubuntu-motu, some contributor will pick it up
<ScottK> Well I'm not subscribed to mentors, so it'd just be moderated anyway.
<Fujitsu> Isn't the optional/extra distinction that those in extra can conflict with others?
<StevenK> Those in extra Conflict with some in optional
<Fujitsu> Right, that's what I thought.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Something like that.  It's explicitly defined in I don't remember where exactly.
<StevenK> It's defined in Debian Policy
<ScottK> StevenK: I thought it was conflict with or could be confused with both.
<apachelogger_> ScottK: so, what does that last part mean?:  This contains all packages that conflict with others with required, important, standard or optional priorities, or are only likely to be useful if you already know what they are or have specialized requirements.
<mok0> apachelogger_, norsetto: grrrrrr, mawk gives the syntax error...
<ScottK> apachelogger_: As an example, gnupg and gnupg2 do not conflict.
<crimsun> mok0: then b-d explicitly on gawk
<norsetto> mok0: yes, thats what I meant, you have to adapt it to mawk
<ScottK> apachelogger_: gnupg2 is extra because it could be confused with gnupg and it's the preferred one to use.
<apachelogger_> ScottK: ah, I think I got it, thanks :)
<mok0> crimsun: thx. I'll invoke it as gawk, than
<crimsun> mok0: I'm only half-paying attention.  If you need it to generate binaries correctly, use a b-d.
<mok0> crimsun: I got the hint I needed :-)
 * apachelogger_ is afraid
<mok0> apachelogger_: OK nazipachelogger, got more? :-D
<apachelogger_> mok0: you might suggest upstream to update his FSF addresses in the license statements
<mok0> apachelogger_: I can patch them
<apachelogger_> nah, no need
<apachelogger_> upstream should fix this
 * txwikinger feels offended
<apachelogger_> txwikinger: why that?
<txwikinger> all this raising of the German history is not very respectful
<apachelogger_> -.-
<crimsun> mmkay.
 * Fujitsu suspected that would come up.
<crimsun> s/nazi/pedantic /, then
<mok0> txwikinger: respectful, to whom?
<apachelogger_> right
<mok0> txwikinger: apachelogger_
<crimsun> also, there are bigger fish to fry, so whatever.
<mok0> txwikinger: and I have been bullshitting for a while
<txwikinger> well mok0 I am sorry
<apachelogger_> mok0: in coypright you should write "The libdltmath/ncbi_math.h and libdltmath/ncbi_math.c .." since they aren't in ./ :P
<mok0> apachelogger_: touchÃ©
 * apachelogger_ suspects that everyone was just waiting for something to bring up the history thing
<ScottK> Well I'll just juump in and say that I was moderately uncomfortable with the use of the term, but wasn't going to mention it.
<ScottK> apachelogger_: Yes.
<apachelogger_> we never use that again
<apachelogger_> pedantic sounds better anyway
<apachelogger_> muahaha
<ScottK> It's also accurate.
<mok0> and we wont mention the soup-xxxx
<ScottK> mok0: That's a special case.  I don't mind that one.
<norsetto> mok0: have you considered joining debichem?
<mok0> norsetto: I've never heard about it
<mok0> In fact, I've had my hands full getting to know ubuntu
<mok0> and getting to know some people here
<norsetto> mok0: its a small group in debian who is interested in packaging and maintaining chemistry related packages
<apachelogger_> mok0: DLTmath.h is inculding code from ncbi_math.h, hence partly PD
<apachelogger_> se line 1541
<mok0> apachelogger_: ok
<ScottK> superm1_: Are you interested in seeing if we can sync elisa from Debian?
<apachelogger_> mok0: that file actually appears twice
<apachelogger_> libdistfit/ and libdltmath/
<mok0> norsetto: I'll check it out. I've been packaging some science packages that we use in my lab. I got a few into gutsy, thanks to ScottK  and others
<apachelogger_> mok0: same applies for libdistfit/distfit.h
<superm1_> ScottK, is it stable yet?
<mok0> norsetto: I know for a fact that lots of people in my field are starting to use ubuntu
<apachelogger_> mok0: DLTmath.h and distfit.h also appea in the main directory
<apachelogger_> ok
<apachelogger_> mok0: that's it
<apachelogger_> can't find anymore issues :P
 * apachelogger_ now needs a cigarette
<norsetto> mok0: I see a little problem
<ScottK> superm1_: It look like the same thing we already have.
<mok0> apachelogger_: Well, you deserve it you really _are_ a na^H^Hpedantic
<ScottK> It's the same upstream version and I think it has all the Ubuntu changes in it.
<norsetto> mok0: your package ships a pdf file without the "preferred form of modification"I think
<mok0> norsetto: what's that?
<apachelogger_> oh
<apachelogger_> I agree
<ScottK> mok0: It needs to be something editable.
<mok0> Like, no PDFs?
<apachelogger_> well
<ScottK> Whatever the 'source' for the PDF is.
<apachelogger_> like the source of the PDF
<mok0> I don't think the source is there
<apachelogger_> that's the problem
<apachelogger_> mok0: upstream has to include a source for the PDF
<apachelogger_> or remove the pdf
<mok0> apachelogger_: that's silly
<apachelogger_> and, ScottK may correct me on this, if he doesn't want to do either you should probably repack the tarball
<norsetto> mok0: no, thats GPL
<superm1_> ScottK, yeah looking over a debdiff from us to them, it looks like we should be able to
<superm1_> i'll do a test build and see
<ScottK> superm1_: Thanks.
<mok0> hm
<mok0> so no docs is better than pdfs?
<ScottK> mok0: If you don't have the source, then it's not distributable.  You can repack the tarball with an alternative form.
<mok0> He probably wrote it in MS-Word or something
<ScottK> Which, if you had it, you could easily convert to ODF and include.
<apachelogger_> well, get the doc and convert it to odt, or he might export the msword doc to html
<mok0> apachelogger_: Does it need a license clause inside?
<apachelogger_> oh
<apachelogger_> actually it was created with groff
<ScottK> mok0: Ideally yes.
<ScottK> apachelogger_: Is the groff source present?
<apachelogger_> thats a gnu thingy
<apachelogger_> http://www.gnu.org/software/groff/
<mok0> Ah, it's the groff formatted man page
<norsetto> mok0: btw, you are not installing it
<mok0> so the source _is_ there
<mok0> norsetto: now I remember: I thought it was redundant
<norsetto> mok0: its possible, I didn't check it
<mok0> norsetto: I did
<apachelogger_> yep
<apachelogger_> the pdf is just an export of the man page
<apachelogger_> issue resolved
<mok0> apachelogger_: yes
<norsetto> mok0: so, just get rid of it from the tarball
<mok0> phew
<apachelogger_> norsetto: why can't it stay?
<mok0> norsetto: why?
<ScottK> If it's generated from source that's provided it
<RainCT> good night
<ScottK> is fine
<ScottK> good night RainCT
<imbrandon> ScottK: after all the "zomg! you shouldent have said anything" comments there is some actual meat there now :)
<norsetto> mok0: whats the source then?
<mok0> norsetto: I can provide a script to generate it
<mok0> norsetto: theseus.1
<imbrandon> ScottK: the debian vmware psudo package mantainer even chimed in with some data
<mok0> norsetto: without my patcches
<norsetto> mok0: ok, if thats the case than issue is solved
<ScottK> imbrandon: Cool.  I'm looking now.
<apachelogger_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/theseus-0712022250/theseus-1.1.5/theseus.1 -> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/theseus-0712022250/theseus-1.1.5/theseus_man.pdf
<mok0> **phew**
<apachelogger_> mok0: now get everything else sorted out! :P
<mok0> I was keeping up with you until the PD stuff
 * apachelogger_ heads outside meanwhile
 * mok0 scrolls back
 * mok0 is releaved after fighting off 3 MOTUs :-)
<apachelogger_> basically you have the 2 PD files from before plus some files which include the .h
<apachelogger_> mok0: lol
<apachelogger_> afk
<norsetto> hehe, love this: HISTORY: Long, tedious, and sordid.
<mok0> norsetto: yes, it's funny
<norsetto> mok0: funny guys you alchimists .....
<mok0> norsetto: lol
<mok0> norsetto: I will try to get xtide processed tomorrow
<norsetto> mok0: sure
<ScottK> imbrandon: It looks good.  It would have been better not to put it on p.d.o though.
<imbrandon> its not
<imbrandon> well not after the first hour ( feedburner screwed me )
<norsetto> mok0: you should compile with the -g flag
<ScottK> imbrandon: OK.  Good.
<ScottK> imbrandon: Looks like Christer Edwards kind of changed his tune too.
<imbrandon> ahh i dident see that one yet /me looks
<imbrandon> hrm i only see once comment from him
<imbrandon> #5
<Fujitsu> Ooh, we're lazy because we don't upgrade packages in stable releases.
<Fujitsu> Watch out, we're going to be replaced.
<apachelogger_> ScottK: can you please have a look at bug 173532
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 173532 in feisty-backports "please backport psi 0.11" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173532
<imbrandon> looks like they missed out on some important information, like a feisty pbuilder log
<imbrandon> and that they actualy tested it etc
<apachelogger_> imbrandon: he's more like a user ;-)
<imbrandon> apachelogger_: yea but i'm still not gonna ack it untill those are done by $someone :)
 * apachelogger_ feels like he has to do that :P
<imbrandon> heh, dinner time, bbiab
<mok0> apachelogger_: re the PD files, it looks like he relicensed them as GPL
<apachelogger_> mok0: huh?
<ScottK> apachelogger_: Not right now.  Headed out for a while.
<mok0> apachelogger_: ncbi_math.* have both GPL and PD license in them
<mok0> apachelogger_: so I should be able to get rid of the extra complication in copyright
<apachelogger_> can one actually do that?
<mok0> apachelogger_: of course. It's in the public domain
<apachelogger_> *shrug*
<mok0> apachelogger_: and the guy is american
<apachelogger_> I'm not really into PD stuff :P
<apachelogger_> mok0: still I think you should mention it
<norsetto> mok0: ok, I see the problem, you define CFLAGS but you don't pass it to make
<StevenK> If it's exported, it should be okay
<norsetto> stevenk: its not
<mok0> apachelogger_: AFAIK it only has a meaning in the USÂ¨
<apachelogger_> *shrug*
<mok0> norsetto: right. it's not used, I should get rid of it
<apachelogger_> archive admins will reject it if they don't like :P
<norsetto> mok0: well, then you don't pass the -g flag as you should
<mok0> norsetto: hang on...
<mok0> norsetto: why do you need -g? We strip symbols anyway
<mok0> norsetto: look in patches/200-make.inc.dpatch
<norsetto> mok0: yes, I don't see it there, as I didn't see it in the build log
<mok0> norsetto: I don't understand why -g is needed
<mok0> norsetto: We always use dh_strip
<norsetto> mok0: yes, thats the policy
<mok0> norsetto: so first create symbols, then strip them from the exe? That's stupid
<StevenK> mok0: So that those debugging symbols can be split off by the buildds
<mok0> norsetto: and doesn't -g turn off optimization
<norsetto> mok0: no
<mok0> norsetto: ok, I'll put -g in there, then
<mok0> btw, what's the minimum 86 platform we build for? i486? i586?
<StevenK> i486
<StevenK> i386 gets emulated or something strange
<mok0> StevenK: so is there a -march required cf. policy?
<StevenK> Don't pass one, let the compiler make up it's own mind
<mok0> StevenK: ok
 * norsetto is pondering going to bed
<txwikinger> why does i386 get emulated?
<txwikinger> i386 is built natively
 * mok0 thinks that i486 code will not run on an old 386 machine
<txwikinger> well mok0 if there are opcodes that are not part of the i386 opcode set that this is correct
<StevenK> txwikinger: Emulated in libc ...
<mok0> StevenK: errr...?
<mok0> StevenK: there is more code in a program than library calls
<StevenK> You call an i486 op code on an i386, it throws SIGILL, libc traps the SIGILL and deals
<StevenK> Keep in mind, this is going back *years*, and is based on Debian knowledge
<mok0> StevenK: got it
<txwikinger> it should be all done with the compiler options
<txwikinger> gcc can compile and optimise according to the opcode set that is given to it
<StevenK> I thought it was libc that dropped support for i386 then
 * StevenK shrugs. Who knows
<txwikinger> http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.1.1/gcc/i386-and-x86-64-Options.html
<StevenK> It wasn't about the compiler, it was about libc, I remember that much.
<mok0> There is a _lot_ to be gained > 10% on when compiling with --target=athlon for that target
<mok0> on execution speed
<txwikinger> aren't there different packages for i386 and i686?
<imbrandon> no
<TheMuso> I386 packages need to be built for the lowest common denominator.
<StevenK> mok0: Yes, but no one has come up with benchmarks and metrics that show the real difference, it's all conjecture and "my gentoo goes faster"
<mok0> Some packages, i.e. atlas, is available for the various platforms
<mok0> StevenK: I have tried to benchmark it on the same machine.
<txwikinger> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=libc&searchon=names&subword=1&version=gutsy&release=all
<StevenK> Which isn't reproducible for other people
<txwikinger> there is a libc for i386 and one optimised for i686
<mok0> StevenK:  why not?
<StevenK> mok0: Because they don't have your machine?
<mok0> If they have a K7 or K8 CPU it will
<StevenK> They may not have your stepping or CPU speed
<superm1_> norsetto, ping
<superm1_> if you're still awake
<StevenK> This is my point, it's quite machine-specific
<mok0> StevenK: I agree that the speed gain may not be the same percentage, but you get more efficient code nonetheless
<imbrandon> that may or may not work for everyone
<StevenK> Right
<imbrandon> lowest common denom
<mok0> StevenK: The compiler can make special optimization for the athlon platform
<StevenK> mok0: Which will just give SIGILLs on the Pentium I use as a firewall
<mok0> StevenK: you also get faster code when compiling with -march=i686
<imbrandon> mok0: and that screws those like me that have no AMD chips and / or use non x86
<norsetto> superm1_: barely :-)
<superm1_> well maybe someone else can field an answer.  i saw that norsetto added a patch to vlc on gutsy that fixed it from opening multiple instances from multiple files by having it call wxvlc %F.  Well upstream now ships with a %U in the field of the .desktop file by default, so i'm not sure what the appropriate thing to do is.  what does the %U vs %F change?
<superm1_> oh hi norsetto
<superm1_> maybe you will know then
<mok0> imbrandon: we would need a new arch
<mok0> != i386
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about i386 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<StevenK> Ha
<StevenK> ubotu: Shut up
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about shut up - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<mok0> hehe
<imbrandon> mok0: ok come up with hard reporduceable numbers and propose it, but i doubt that will happen
<mok0> imbrandon: no kidding?
<norsetto> superm1_: yes, I remember that
<mok0> norsetto: I thought you'd gone to bed...
<norsetto> mok0: struggling but keeping the position
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-24
<james_w> hi serialorder
<ryanakca> Could one make a package such that for foobar-a , patch_1.diff is applied, but for foobar-b, patch_1.diff isn't?
<serialorder> hi james
<james_w> ryanakca: foobar-a and foobar-b are binary packages?
<ryanakca> james_w: *nod*
<RAOF> It'll need some makefile trickery, and you'll obviously need to build the source twice, but it's possible.
<ryanakca> RAOF: thanks
<RAOF> The last thing I touched that did something similar was making libasound2-plugins build 32 & 64
<RAOF> bit binary packages on the appropriate archs.  That's not a good example, though, because there's all sorts of madness that's specific to biarch builds.
<ryanakca> RAOF: Thanks :)
<Laibsch> good morning
<Laibsch> I am trying to get http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gourmet/gourmet_0.14.2-1.dsc into shape for inclusion.  I think it is almost there, except for one thing; "E: gourmet: file-directly-in-usr-share usr/share/gourmet-0.14.2.egg-info"
<Laibsch> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPythonFAQ suggested to pass the option "--single-version-externally-managed" to the "setup.py install" call, but that did not work out "error: option --single-version-externally-managed not recognized"
<Laibsch> Any suggestions?
<Laibsch> james_w: Sorry for the late response.  Did you have a chance to push those wordpress changes.  If it helps, I can still prepare an intrepid debdiff.
<dholbach> good morning
<Hobbsee> morning horsemen
<dholbach> hi Hobbsee
<awmcclain> Anyone know of a way to cache your GnuPG passphrase without using Seahorse?
<Hobbsee> pinentry-gtk2?
<siretart> gnupg-agent?
<awmcclain> Thank you!
<awmcclain> Is there any way to give (pre-cache)  my passphrase to gpg-agent before it's actually asked?
<Hobbsee> is there any good reason to do so?
<awmcclain> Hobbsee: I'm using autoppa to upload the ~30 packages I maintain, and it dies if you need to enter a passphrase. :(
<Hobbsee> awmcclain: well, you can't put it in a textfile, and get it to read that.
<Hobbsee> therefore, you're going to have to physically type it in once anyway.
<awmcclain> Hobbsee: That's fine. I just want to be able to have gpg-agent cache it _before_ I run autoppa.
<Hobbsee> consequently, the suggestion would be that you debsign a .dsc file manually (or something similar), then run autoppa afterwards, when it should still be cached.
<awmcclain> Hobbsee: Perfect. I need to brush up on the individual deb helpers. I couldn't remember which would prompt me for a signature.
<Hobbsee> awmcclain: ah, cool.
<awmcclain> Just want to prime the pump.
<awmcclain> Well, crap. debuild --no-tgz-check -S is still prompting for a passphrase.
<jmarsden> awmcclain: debuild -S -uc -us
<awmcclain> jmarsden: But that doesn't launch debsign?
<jmarsden> Right, I thought you didn't want to sign the package?
<Hobbsee> jdong: ping?
<awmcclain> jmarsden: No, I'm trying to sign it, but using the cached key in gpg-agent. I think the problem is that debsign isn't configured to use gpg-agent.
<awmcclain> (Really, I'm trying to get autoppa not to break)
<jmarsden> Are signed packages required for PPA upload?  if not, then not signing them should avoid all passphrases and thereby achieve your goal.\
<awmcclain> jmarsden: They are, unfortunately. :-|
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: they are, for very good reasons.
<jmarsden> OK.  I've always signed mine, but I've never had a need to automate PPA upload either, I'm not that prolific.
<awmcclain> Hobbsee: Very good, yes. Unfortunately for me, I should say.
<Hobbsee> awmcclain: well, i'm sure someone can upload a whole bunch of packages, doing various things, under your name, instead, if you really wish :P
<awmcclain> Hobbsee: No thanks! I'd rather just get my gpg caching working. :D
<Hobbsee> haha ;)
 * Hobbsee wonders where all the crackporters are.
<Hobbsee> really odd, to not even have *one* around
<awmcclain> Hrm. Slowly making progress. The real issue is that I'm doing all this just on a console.
<awmcclain> Is pinentry a GUI thing? Seems like it depends on QT or GTK.
<Hobbsee> it used to have a console based one,iirc.
<james_w> morning all
<james_w> Laibsch: I haven't yet, sorry. I'll look at it this morning.
<Laibsch> great, thanks
<Laibsch> let me know if there is anything I can do to help
<james_w> slytherin: around?
<james_w> slytherin: for lucene, does having that patch break anything?
<slytherin> james_w: I wonder if that patch will apply at all. If it does, it will not break anything, simply bypass a unit test.
<james_w> k
<slytherin> james_w: I think it is better to wait till I file a bug. Just today lucene2 in Debian got updated to use libdb4.6-java as build and runtime dependency.
<james_w> ok. I'll wait
<savvas> does anyone have a source of an debian package that uses svn-buildpackage ?
<white> savvas: foo2zjs
<white> savvas: svn.debian.org/svn/foo2zjs
<savvas> thanks white :)
<slytherin> savvas: I believe any packages that is team maintained in some svn (pkg-java, pkg-mono) can be build using svn-buildpackage.
<savvas> slytherin: I'm actually reading about frostwire, since their code is in svn
<savvas> some say there's a problem with some libraries, but I don't know what
<lfaraone> How long does it take after I dput for somethign to get to REVU?
<james_w> Laibsch: hi, still around?
<Laibsch> yes
<Laibsch> any trouble?
<ScottK> lfaraone: I think around 10 minutes.
<james_w> Laibsch: sorry for the delay, I'm on it now
<james_w> Laibsch: would you update the description of the bug as described in the SRU page?
<james_w> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Laibsch> james_w: Are you referring to "Procedure - section 2.1 to 2.5"?
<Laibsch> I think all the points there were covered in the bug, although there is not one nice, single paragraph to point to
<Laibsch> I can add that if that is what you are looking for
<james_w> yeah, please edit the description, it helps the SRU teams a lot
<geser> Hi bddebian!
<bddebian> Heya gang
<bddebian> Hi geser
<sebner> hi bddebian
<sebner> geser: you also plan a multi vote like persia? ^^
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<Laibsch> james_w: take a look
<Laibsch> I think it should be a good balance between verbose and concise
<james_w> Laibsch: the dev branch thing means jaunty, not upstream
<Laibsch> Oh, I see
<james_w> I believe this was folded in to the merge for Jaunty, correct?
<Laibsch> yes
<james_w> Laibsch: diffs attached to the bug for your review
<didrocks> james_w: (hi) I have a question about your last mail
<james_w> hi didrocks
<didrocks> james_w: does the "dpkg-statoverride call" has to be in the init script?
<geser> sebner: first I need to read my collect mails from today
<james_w> didrocks: that's kind of my question
<sebner> geser: heh =)
<didrocks> james_w: from what I understand (but I maybe wrong), it's just for replacing the "chmod 777", right?
<didrocks> (and as the init script is launched as root, this is possible)
<james_w> I'm not sure what you mean
<didrocks> james_w: sorry, trying again : the best pratice is to used dpkg-statoverride in the init script, instead of using chmod/chown option to enable everyone to write in /var/run
<Laibsch> james_w: Looks good, the date in the hardy patch is Nov 14th, but I guess that is rather irrelevant
<Laibsch> thanks for the clean-up
<savvas> Does anyone know a cdbs package that compiles using ant and ant.mk ? I'd like to see an example
<james_w> didrocks: ah, no, dpkg-statoverride allows the admin to tell packages not to chown/chmod certain files/directories. The init scripts I have seen that chmod/chown do not respect this.
<james_w> Laibsch: cool, thanks, I'll upload
<didrocks> james_w: but in this case, I do not understand how, after a reboot, the right directory in /var/run is still writable for everyone
<james_w> why should they be writeable to everyone?
<didrocks> I was thinking you were talking about this case (when chown/chmod was needed in init script)
<didrocks> but that was because I didn't understand the dpkg-statoverride use
<didrocks> so, now, I think it's ok :)
<didrocks> thanks a lot james_w. Will look closely at the discussion about this point :)
<iulian> Heya
<james_w> directhex: hey, you about?
<james_w> directhex: I've cot a bit of confusion with gmcs on ia64, and I would like you to tell me how it should look so I know what is broken
<james_w> directhex: mono-gmcs doesn't seem to contain gmcs, but it's an Arch: all package.
<sebner> james_w: afaik mono-gmcs contains gmcs1. gmcs2 is in mono-devel
<james_w> I don't know how much to trust the Contents.gz, but they differ across arches
<james_w> ia64 has gmcs2 in mono-gmcs and gmcs in mono-devel it seems
<sebner> O_o
<james_w> with gmcs in mono-gmcs and no mono-devel on i386
<sebner> james_w: well, at least I had to install mono-devel so monodevelop alpha2 configure finds gmcs
<sebner> on i386
<james_w> this package may have built either side of mono2.0 being uploaded
<jdong> wow, network-manager sets up ad-hoc NATs.
<jdong> I didn't know that.
<slytherin> jdong: As per my observation, the only thing that NM doesn't manage is firewire point to point network.
<jdong> never tried that before, so I can't say.
<jdong> I did find it a bit counterintuitive that "Set up wireless network" defaults to setting up a NAT
<jdong> although the functionality is nice, I would've liked it to be a bit more clear that's what it does.
<Tetracomm> Hello.
<Tetracomm> Does anyone know if checkinstall packages will ever become acceptable?
<sebner> Tetracomm: never ever ;)
<guille_> hi all
<slytherin> Tetracomm: without changes? no.
<guille_> does exist a mail list for packages?
<slytherin> guille_: hi
<slytherin> guille_: what kind of mailing list?
<guille_> not sure what kind. actually i'm trying to build mysql with sphinxse (an storage engine) an package it; but no way to do it. i would like to ask people who knows
<slytherin> guille_: Considering that mysql is in main, you will have better luck if you ask on #ubuntu-devel channel.
<guille_> slytherin: ok, thank you
<Tetracomm> Something needs to be done about the overcomplicated package creation process.
<jdong> what is overcomplicated?
<slytherin> Tetracomm: what is overcomplicated?
 * lamont grumbles at jpds
<Tetracomm> The package creation process.
<Tetracomm> It is too difficult.
<jdong> can you be more specific?
<jdong> what part(s) did you find to be difficult?
<broonie> You may want to use CDBS or similar if you're packaging something noddy enough.
<lamont> jpds: if you wanna send me your nmap diff, it'll probably get uploaded and synced faster
<slytherin> geser: any idea if java packages will ever need ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} ?
<leslieviljoen> hey ppl! I was wondering: are packages "owned" by certain motu's? I reported a certain bug almost a year ago, including a patch. Today I mailed the Debian maintainer and he said he'd never seen it. Who's supposed to inform upstream?
<azeem> the Debian maintainer is not necessarily upstream
<slytherin> leslieviljoen: No. Packages are now owned by certain motu's. It has some advantages and at least one disadvantage that you mentioned.
<azeem> well, depends on what you're talking about
<leslieviljoen> in this case, the Debian maintainer was upstream
<leslieviljoen> so is there a way of finding out if anyone is attending to something? do the devs handle bugs randomly?
<geser> slytherin: I assume that dh_shlibdeps won't work for java packages, so ${shlib:Depends} is useless here, but one could perhaps use ${misc:Depends} for automagic dependencies on jars in other packages (if it's somehow possible to discover the dependencies)
<geser> leslieviljoen: you might look at the "also notified" list but that is no guarantee that those people are really interested in the package
<slytherin> geser: I guess jaranalyzer is supposed to determine dependencies. Never actually used it though.
<leslieviljoen> so they are handled on a "I'm interested in that" basis?
<leslieviljoen> So it comes down to this: I'm interested in fixing certain things, and I'm capable of doing it, I just don't know how to get my fixes into the repos. At least not in under a year.
<leslieviljoen> What should I do?
<lamont> leslieviljoen: patches sent to the bug report tend to get attention faster than bugs with no patches
<leslieviljoen> Well look here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/wajig/+bug/174261
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 174261 in wajig "auto-install ignores noauth option" [Undecided,New]
<leslieviljoen> It's a tiny problem but I fixed it almost a year ago. Upstream hasn't even heard of it yet.
<leslieviljoen> (well they did today)
<leslieviljoen> I made that fix to release a script that can find regressions in desktop packages: that script was a response to another bug I reported
<leslieviljoen> so there seems to be a break-down in the link between launchpad and upstream - if there is any link
<leslieviljoen> is there any reason not to report bugs directly upstream as opposed to launchpad?
<geser> yes, as Ubuntu patches some packages/software a bug might be because of that patching so upstream can't really do anything about it
<geser> and for the users it's easier to report bug reports at one place
<geser> the downside is that we don't have enough manpower to distribute those bug reports to the different upstreams (after checking if it's really an upstream bug)
<leslieviljoen> but I can easily check that
<leslieviljoen> maybe I should become a motu
<leslieviljoen> I just don't have consistent stretches of time
<slytherin> leslieviljoen: that shouldn't stop you from trying
<leslieviljoen> don't the motu's have set responsibilities?
<leslieviljoen> ie. don't you need a certain minimum consistent amount of time to contribute?
<directhex> if the patch is NOT in the packaging, then i'd STRONGLY recommend you file the bug upstream *yourself* and link the bug in launchpad
<directhex> because chinese whispers are bad - you'd do a much better job of communicating the problem & answering questions than having a packager relay your issue without neccessarily fully understanding the issue
<james_w> directhex: hey, did you see my question earlier?
<james_w> directhex: it boiled down to which package is now supposed to ship /usr/bin/gmcs?
<leslieviljoen> directhex: thanks for the advice. the problem is very rarely in the packaging though.
<directhex> james_w, no, i didn't, sorry. things were exploding at work
<james_w> directhex: no problem, it's not urgent
<directhex> james_w, we now ship 'generic' scripts in mono-devel - which means things like "sn" (as opposed to sh1 for .net 1, sn2 for .net 2), "al" (as opposed to... blah blah). and gmcs comes into that category
<geser> leslieviljoen: MOTUs contributing in their free time, so its up to everyone how much time he's ready to spend (no commitments)
<james_w> directhex: aha, so a package that wants to use gmcs should B-D on mono-devel, rather than mono-gmcs?
<directhex> james_w, if you're asking due to a build dep, then the advice is to actually override the compiler you use to force 'csc', which is a debian-specific script pointing to the default c# compiler, which is gmcs for now (but might go back to being mcs in the future - upstream were talking about merging them)
<directhex> james_w, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition#head-67c13a005dab7f510b0fd1ee8db7a30689e89669
<james_w> directhex: nice, thanks. I'll work on that part and then consult you about anything else needed for the transition.
<directhex> james_w, yes, please don't hesitate to ask
<directhex> james_w, 2.0 passed debian NEW literally 150 minutes ago, so the transition is entering full swing there too. in experimental,mind
<serialorder> i am working on a merge and the ubuntu version used automake 1.10.1 while the new debian version uses 1.10 this leads to a few extra things in the Makefile.in, which version should I keep?
<directhex> (ubuntu is still newer though, 2.0.1-0ubuntu2 > 2.0-1. 2.0.1-0ubuntu2 is being referred to as 2.0.1-1~pre3 in private repo; ~pre4 exists but has a bugfix which does not affect buildds)
<leslieviljoen> ok, will read up on how to motu, thanks chaps
<directhex> leslieviljoen, if you're interested in a specific package, also worth considering is helping ubuntu by helping debian - especially if the package version is a debian version (i.e. nobody from ubuntu has made ubuntu changes) or a 0ubuntuX (ubuntu has a newer version than debian), then helping debian helps BOTH distros, as well as hundreds of debian-based distros
<slytherin> serialorder: what are those extra things?
<serialorder> there are three
<serialorder> <<<<<<< dasher-4.7.0-0ubuntu2 (ubuntu)
<serialorder> # 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008  Free Software Foundation, Inc.
<serialorder> =======
<serialorder> # 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006  Free Software Foundation, Inc.
<serialorder> >>>>>>> dasher-4.7.3-1 (debian)
<serialorder> <<<<<<< dasher-4.7.0-0ubuntu2 (ubuntu)
<serialorder> DSYMUTIL = @DSYMUTIL@
<serialorder> =======
<serialorder> >>>>>>> dasher-4.7.3-1 (debian)
<serialorder> <<<<<<< dasher-4.7.0-0ubuntu2 (ubuntu)
<serialorder> MSGFMT_OPTS = @MSGFMT_OPTS@
<serialorder> MSGMERGE = @MSGMERGE@
<serialorder> NMEDIT = @NMEDIT@
<serialorder> =======
<directhex> blurp
<serialorder> MSGFMT_OPTS = @MSGFMT_OPTS@
<serialorder> >>>>>>> dasher-4.7.3-1 (debian)
<leslieviljoen> is there any ubuntu team that just browses the bugs and reports them upstream if need be? Is that triaging?
<superm1> !pastebin | serialorder
<ubottu> serialorder: pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<leslieviljoen> I am re-reporting my launchpad bugs in debian right now.
<slytherin> leleobhz: yes, there is bug-squad. there channel is #ubuntu-nugs
<slytherin> serialorder: please use pastebin for pasting anything more than two lines.
<slytherin> serialorder: The difference look unnecessary to me unless they were done intentionally.
<serialorder> sorry guys, didnt know
<superm1> that reminds me... is there a nice GUI tool for handling when this 3 way merge stuff gets spewed into one file?  meld works wonders on a 3 way diff with 3 files
<serialorder> slythering that is what i was thinking, there is nothing in the changelog to indicate it was intentional
<slytherin> serialorder: so drop it
 * slytherin calls of the day
<slytherin> s/of/off
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - what's your question with iscsitarget?
<kirkland> mathiaz: hey, so there appears to be a separate, but related bug in the iscsi_trgt.ko kernel module provided by l-u-m
<kirkland> mathiaz: i've talked to smb and rtg, and they're going to work on that from the kernel side
<jmarsden|work> http://packages.ubuntu.com appears to be down -- are others still able to access it?
<kirkland> mathiaz: basically, the ubuntu module won't unload properly
<kirkland> mathiaz: and the init script unloads that module on "stop" action
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok
<kirkland> mathiaz: exiting non-zero if it cannot unload the module
<kirkland> mathiaz: which cause the package upgrade to fail
<kirkland> mathiaz:  in the merged init script, i cleaned up a number of things, including lsb-izing it
<kirkland> mathiaz: but i also made the module unload throw the warning/error, but it does not exit non-zero
<kirkland> mathiaz: i was looking for a second opinion on that
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - how important is it to unload the modules on stop?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i also considered trying to put something in the pre-rm, that would soften the problems with the initscript "stop" failing, such that the package could be upgraded
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm not sure ...  the daemon is killed first, and that seems to happen well
<mathiaz> kirkland: hm - right package upgrades.
<kirkland> mathiaz: i can't get the module to unload at all, must reboot
<mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC you could try to put some code in the new prerm script
<kirkland> mathiaz: the "easy" work around is to a) stop the init script, ignore the error, b) move the init script out of the way, c) do the package upgraded
<kirkland> mathiaz: yes, that would definitely work
<kirkland> mathiaz: i thought maybe we'd see if a working module might be added to the kernel first
<kirkland> mathiaz: but mainly, i was looking for a second opinion, and to alert someone about the potential issue
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - but that wouldn't help in the case of upgrades
<kirkland> mathiaz: i also submitted a debian bug, with the patch
<kirkland> mathiaz: i haven't heard anything back from them yet
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - so you'd suggest to wait for the kernel fix before uploading a merge?
<kirkland> mathiaz: sorry, no i uploaded the merge already
<kirkland> mathiaz: and i noted in a bug report that a), b), c) workaround, if you're having trouble with the upgrade
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm asking you now if you think a maintainer script would be required
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay ... next question...  there is a prerm script auto-generated by debhelper
<mathiaz> kirkland: well - technically debhelper doesn't generate a prerm script - it substitutes some code in existing maintainer script
<mathiaz> kirkland: the templates for the maintainer scripts can be found under /usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/debian
 * lamont notes that packages.ubuntu.com is happy agaain
<Nafallo> jmarsden|work: packages.u.c back.
<jmarsden|work> Nafallo: thanks
<Nafallo> meeh. stupid scroll up :-)
<lamont> heh
<nhandler> Could someone give me a hand with merging loadlin from Debian? It FTBFS (http://paste.ubuntu.com/76599/).
<jdong> nhandler: try -fno-stack-protector in CFLAGS?
<DktrKranz> nhandler, try passing -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS
<jdong> *tells ke<noping>es to look away*
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags#-fstack-protector
<nhandler> I'm building it again right now. In the mean time, I'll read through that wiki page. Thanks jdong, DktrKranz, and james_w!
<DktrKranz> nhandler, as ke<noping>es says, it's better to fix it properly, but if you're in a hurry...
<nhandler> Well, the -fno-stack-protector didn't solve the issue. It still FTBFS with the same error
<jdong> well loadlin probably doesn't use stdlib anyway
<DktrKranz> nhandler, be sure CFLAGS are handled by debian/rules. If not, you need to adjust Makefile (or whatever) manually
<nhandler> DktrKranz: debian/rules is handling the CFLAGS
<DktrKranz> nhandler, try to pass -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE too
<DktrKranz> buffer overflows are easier to track
<nhandler> DktrKranz: Nope. -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE didn't fix it either.
<NCommander> DktrKranz, -U?
<NCommander> Why do you want to undefine it?
<DktrKranz> NCommander, testing purposed
<NCommander> ah
<DktrKranz> nhandler, my bet is debian/rules doesn't pass CFLAGS to inner Makefile
<james_w> would anybody like to review my changes in http://paste.ubuntu.com/76605/ ?
<nhandler> DktrKranz: You might be right. The rules file sets up the CFLAGS variable. However, the only time it uses it is when deeling with freeramdisk. (http://paste.ubuntu.com/76603/)
<DktrKranz> nhandler, if you have a Makefile in parent directory, try adjusting it by inserting -fno-stack-protector after gcc invocation
<DktrKranz> james_w, at a first glance, it seems good (it follows the recipe provided by CompilerFlags)
<james_w> thanks DktrKranz
<nhandler> DktrKranz: Nope. Adding -fno-stack-protector to the make file didn't do any good either.
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, i'm having some strange problem with dh_installdeb
<kirkland> mathiaz: my diff currently looks like this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/76612/
<mathiaz> kirkland: where does the init script fail currently? In prerm?
<kirkland> mathiaz: well, the substitution claimed by dh_installdeb isn't currently happening
<kirkland> mathiaz: there must be a debian/rules step missing
<kirkland> mathiaz: but dh_installdeb appears to be present in the two places i'd expect it
<DktrKranz> nhandler, I need to look at it then
<nhandler> DktrKranz: No problem. I'll probably just put the merge up for grabs. I have no personal reason for doing it. In the end, it would just be another MOTUs solution that I would use. If nobody handles it by DIF, I'll take another look at it.
<DktrKranz> nhandler, ok. I'll leave soon (quite late here), I'll have a look at it tomorrow (if I remember, of course)
<nhandler> Thanks again for your help DktrKranz
<directhex> james_w, which package are you working on mono transition for, OOI? it would be great if you could take ownership on http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO to avoid duplication of effort
<james_w> directhex: it was banshee. I requested the sync, and so got stuck with the build failure email
<directhex> ah, right
<directhex> well, slomo will receive appropriate kicks up the butt. since mono 2 is now in experimental, he'll get the same FTBFS there until he makes a 1.4.1-2
<james_w> yup
<james_w> I'll see if I can get something that builds for him to start from
<directhex> although no sign of meebey tonight (grrr!)
<kirkland> mathiaz: ^ thoughts?
<mathiaz> kirkland: looking at the package now
<kirkland> mathiaz: thx
<mathiaz> kirkland: but a quick comment regarding your pastbin - why not put the logic in failed-upgrade?
<directhex> james_w, are you a banshee user, then?
<mathiaz> kirkland: it seems that this is the place to handle a failure of the prerm script from the existing package
<james_w> directhex: nope
<snikker> when i try to make a .deb package, i've got this warning: "dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}" and in "${misc:Depends}", can you help me?
<mok0> snikker: they are defined in debian/control
<mok0> snikker: you can safely delete it
<azeem> snikker: it means nothing had to be substituted
<azeem> AIUI
<snikker> yes, they are there, isn't right?
<azeem> well, apparently they are not needed
<azeem> snikker: what programming language is your package in?
<mok0> snikker: you can also leave them, it's not a serious problem
<azeem> *if* they are really not needed
<snikker> it's an service menu for kde4... so i can ignore it?
<azeem> eh
<azeem> kde4 is not a programming language
<azeem> is it in C++?
<mok0> snikker: so it's just image and text files?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i suppose it could be handled there
<snikker> if the servicemenu is in c++? no, it's just a text file (file.desktop)
<azeem> ok then
<azeem> snikker: then you can ignore it and/or delete it indeed
<snikker> azeem: ok, thanks...
<snikker> azeem: but suppose that i've got a c/c++ file (instead of text file) and i receive this warning, what i must do?
<mok0> snikker: then you wouldn't get the warning
<azeem> all c/c++ programs need at least the C/C++ system libraries, so if you get the ${shlibs:Depends} warning, it might mean the package build process failed to build or install the program
<azeem> the ${misc:Depends} warning might not be a problem
<snikker> azeem: ok, but if i've got a ${shlibs:Depends}, how can i check what's the problem?
<snikker> there is a way for check it?
<azeem> no, you will have to carefully manually inspect the .deb you get
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-25
<snikker> ah, ok... thanks.
<james_w> anyone know what's going on with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19916491/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.glui_2.36-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
<james_w> touch configure-stamp
<james_w> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<RAOF> Looks like the actual error is above that.
<azeem> james_w: hrm, *maybe* those warnings spit out by libtool led to a non-zero exit status, and bootstrap is reporting that
<RAOF> WHile running bootstrap.sh
<azeem> RAOF: which error?
<azeem> oh
<azeem> right
<james_w> ah, oh yeah
<james_w> is that a parallel make or something?
<RAOF> Also, it looks like that's trying a parallel build, and build-stamp's running before configure has finished (or, in fact, started)
<james_w> so build-stamp should depend on configure-stamp?
<RAOF> Probably on configure?
<james_w> hmm, maybe
<RAOF> Well, actually, it likely doesn't make any difference.  But yeah; build-stamp should depend on configure(-stamp), because it doesn't work until configure's been run :)
<james_w> configure is PHONY, so wouldn't have make build-stamp be run every time?
<RAOF> Um...
<azeem> sometimes, I wonder whether that configure: target in debian/rules was invented before or after the advent of autoconf
<RAOF> I think dependenices of a PHONY target aren't refreshed if they're up to date, but that's something I'd want to check to be sure.
<azeem> yeah, I'd assume build-stamp would just be a no-op then if the stampfile already exists
<Coringao> ola alguem pode dizer em portugues aqui.. por favor
<Coringao> Ã sobre o repositorio Ubuntu Games
<Coringao> tipo tenho um repositorio
<azeem> Coringao: this is an english channel
<Coringao> deb http://archive.ubuntugames.org intrepid main
<Coringao> azeem, sorry.. not english  :(
<RAOF> There is a Portugese channel, though.  That'd be #ubuntu-pt (?)
 * RAOF can never remember his locale codes.
<Coringao> RAOF, I created a repository for the Ubuntu Games
<Coringao> RAOF, Where it exists games not official in the Ubuntu
<Coringao> RAOF, I am creative and administrator of link Ubuntu Games
<Coringao> http://www.ubuntugames.org
<RAOF> Do you have a question?
<Coringao> RAOF, would like to officialize the repository that I created
<RAOF> Right.  Why are the games not in the Ubuntu repositories already?
<Coringao> sorry... I am using a translator.
<azeem> Coringao: does somebody from your team speak good english?
<Coringao> azeem, sorry.. I do not have team. I made this alone project.
<Coringao> :(
<leleobhz> well
<Coringao> leleobhz, De um help aqui
<leleobhz> trying to explain quickly
<leleobhz> Coringao has created a repository only for games not packaged yet for ubuntu
<leleobhz> and he want to know if have a way to add these packages to official branch of ubuntu
<leleobhz> actually these packages are stored into ubuntugames.org server
<leleobhz> this guy is the project mantainer
<leleobhz> the idea is insert these games into multiverse or universe repositories
<azeem> are you sure?
<leleobhz> about what?
<azeem> it sounded like he just wanted to have his repo "blessed"
<azeem> not getting his packages in
<wgrant> The idea seems to me to be to create another separate repo that is useless and destroys more upgrades..
<leleobhz> no
<RAOF> There's the standard way, same as getting any other package in Ubuntu.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages?action=show&redirect=MOTU%2FPackages%2FNew is an English version of the page; I'm not sure if there's a Portugese translation.
<azeem> but if he really wants to get his packages into universe, he just become a MOTU
<azeem> the language barrier might be a problem, though
<leleobhz> the idea is only to add these packages to ubuntu repositories
<wgrant> leleobhz: Why does that site exist, then?
<leleobhz> wgrant: because a lot of these games dont exist packaged for ubuntu
<wgrant> Then somebody should package them for Ubuntu.
<leleobhz> and the intention is teach a easy way to novice users get their games working on linux
<azeem> it seems to have been quite some work to build up this community etc.
<leleobhz> [24/11-22:32:59] < azeem> but if he really wants to get his packages into universe, he just become a MOTU
 * leleobhz think this is the case...
<wgrant> I don't see why people are so quick to start their own repositories and communities when they can with substantially greater ease leverage the existing repository and community.
<azeem> well, becoming a motu doesn't exactly happen overnight these days, AIUI
<leleobhz> the idea is dont need a isolated repository, but have these games available throught ubuntu
<wgrant> One doesn't seen to be a MOTU to get packages into universe.
<wgrant> s/seen/need/
<azeem> leleobhz: there's a vibrant Debian/Ubuntu games team
<wgrant> leleobhz: Why does the isolated repository exist, then?
<azeem> leleobhz: possibly, somebody of them speaks portuguese
<azeem> leleobhz: I think there are at least a couple of spanish speakers in there
<azeem> he should contact them
<azeem> IMO
<leleobhz> wgrant: because the packages isnt on ubuntu (yet i hope :p_
<leleobhz> azeem: its a great idea too
<azeem> wgrant: let's assume it was by ignorance of the available procedures
<wgrant> azeem: There is an awful lot of that around these days, it seems.
<azeem> yeah, sure
<leleobhz> azeem: yes... these guys arent very experienced about packaging
<leleobhz> well, ill discuss with Coringao these ideas
<azeem> I guess there's a lot of over-motivated people who hear about FLOSS communities, get excited and want to start their own community
<james_w> I have some sympathy though, I wouldn't want to try and push 20 packages in to Ubuntu
<azeem> yeah
<wgrant> Then I would posit that they have no business running their own repository to work around QA procedures.
<leleobhz> and i need to get away because im busy
<azeem> leleobhz: thanks for doing this!
<azeem> now, where is bddebian when you need him
<azeem> wgrant: it's Free Software
<azeem> what they do isn't smart for the community, but they can do whatever they please
<wgrant> I didn't say it wasn't permitted.
<azeem> just remember that Debian people though exactly the same of Ubuntu when it started up
<azeem> but anyway, let's hope this is getting resolved in the games team or something
<azeem> thought*, anyway
<wgrant> True.
<directhex> there are cases where you don't have many options
<directhex> e.g. my mono updates repo, since mono is barred from foo-backports
<azeem> heh
<directhex> and i'll continue to cite my 12000+ user statistic, even though the number has dropped significantly post-intrepid-release :/
<kirkland> mathiaz: i managed to create an ubuntu branch of ecryptfs-utils: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/mhalcrow/ecryptfs-utils.git;a=shortlog;h=ubuntu
<mathiaz> kirkland: great
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, i'm trying iscsitarget.failed-upgrade
<mathiaz> kirkland: I've build your package - it seems that it's working if you renamed iscsitarget.prerm to prerm
<kirkland> mathiaz: oh, hmm...  interesting.  i named it iscsitarget.prerm per man dh_installdeb
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - however you have docs and dir files in debian/
<mathiaz> kirkland: so it seems that debhelper assumes that your only building one package.
<mathiaz> kirkland: and you can just use prerm, postinst
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, let me give that a shot
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - how did you notice that it wouldn't work?
<kirkland> mathiaz: that what wouldn't work?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i tried building the package, and expected the file debian/iscsitarget.prerm.debhelper to be generated, with my code plus the auto-generated code
<kirkland> mathiaz:  when you do that (rename it to prerm), do you get: E: iscsitarget: maintainer-shell-script-fails-syntax-check prerm
<kirkland> mathiaz: nevermind
<kirkland> mathiaz: boneheaded syntax error on my part
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, so when you said it "worked" ...  did your built package end up with a fully populated debian/iscsitarget.prerm.debhelper ???
<kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, but it does look right in debian/iscsitarget/DEBIAN
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so that means the package is probably correct then.
<nhandler> To get a package backported to intrepid, do I just file a bug against intrepid-backports and subscribe ubuntu-backporters?
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Yes.  If you can say you've tested that it builds, installs, and runs, then say so and set it to confirmed.
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Feel free to ping me after you've done that.
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Is it a requirement to upload it to a PPA?
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Not at all.
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: You  tell me you  tested it and that's good enough.  If it FTBFS, then I send NCommander to hunt you down.
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Great. I'll submit the bug report. It built cleanly in pbuilder
<NCommander> wait, what?
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Easy.  Not yet.
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Bug #301914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 301914 in intrepid-backports "Please backport dvd95 1.4p0-0ubuntu1 from Jaunty to Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/301914
<kirkland> mathiaz: okay, i've got it going now ;-)
<kirkland> mathiaz: tested, working
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Looking
<nhandler> Thanks ScottK-laptop
<mathiaz> kirkland: did you add the code to failed-upgrade?
<kirkland> mathiaz: no, prerm
<kirkland> mathiaz: that seemed to work better
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: You also need to say it installs and runs.
<mathiaz> kirkland: hm - I meant i the prerm script - under which action did you put the code?
<mathiaz> kirkland: upgrade or failed-upgrade?
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Ok, I'll add that in (it does install/run)
<ScottK-laptop> Great.
<kirkland> mathiaz: oooooohhhhhh
<kirkland> mathiaz: great idea
<kirkland> mathiaz:  i couldn't it to work under that part of the case statement, so i removed it entirely
<kirkland> mathiaz: duh, it belongs under failed-upgrade
<mathiaz> kirkland: http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts
<mathiaz> kirkland: ^^ there is a chart about the sequence of maintainer script calls.
<ScottK-laptop> nhandler: Ack'ed.  Now it's just question of when an archive admin processes it.
<nhandler> ScottK-laptop: Thanks a lot
<kirkland> mathiaz: bingo, that works perfectly
<kirkland> mathiaz: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/76655/
<kirkland> mathiaz: cool, i'm happy with it, uploading ....
<mathiaz> kirkland: hm - have you already uploadedÃ
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<kirkland> mathiaz: nope
<kirkland> mathiaz: was giving you a chance to respond, since you had looked at it
<mathiaz> kirkland: what about protecting the code with a version comparisonÃ
<mathiaz> kirkland: ?
<mathiaz> kirkland: OTOH you're checking the md5sum
<kirkland> mathiaz: i thought about that, but i figure the md5sum was even stronger
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - I think it makes sense.
<mathiaz> kirkland: what kind of testing did you do?
<kirkland> mathiaz: 1) installed the new package on a system with no iscsitarget package installed
<kirkland> mathiaz: 2) installed the new package on a system with the Intrepid iscsitarget package installed
<kirkland> (ie upgraded)
<kirkland> mathiaz: 3) upgraded from the current jaunty package
<kirkland> mathiaz: 4) upgraded against itself
<kirkland> mathiaz: all of those seemed to succeed
<mathiaz> kirkland:hm ok.
<mathiaz> kirkland: I don't see the point of 4) though
<kirkland> mathiaz: good enough?  any other concerns?
<mathiaz> kirkland: no other concerns.
<mathiaz> kirkland: I was just wondering what was the use case of 4)
<kirkland> mathiaz: none really, now that i think of it
<freeflying> james_w: fcitx has a nmu upload in debian, would u like sync it?
<ScottK-laptop> freeflying: Is there currently an Ubuntu difference?
<ScottK-laptop> We're in auto-sync now, so if there isn't it'll happen automatically.
<freeflying> ScottK-laptop: no, I prepare upload a svn snapshot of fcitx, its good for me to sync it before I uplaod :)
<Elbrus> has anybody experience in building in with sbuild? when I add universe to the sources.list I get a "W: GPG error: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hardy Release: Could not execute '/usr/bin/gpgv' to verify signature (is gnupg installed?)" warning and the build failes.
<Elbrus> I could install gnupg in the schroot, but than the root is not "clean" anymore...
<Elbrus> Any idea how to handle this correctly?
<jmarsden> Elbrus: Read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto and check the --source-template option?
<Elbrus> jmarsden: I have no experience with LVM, it is something worth learning at this moment?
<jmarsden> I'm not sure.  Try just reading the sbuild man pages or do more googling for sbuild ubuntu sources?  LVM isn't hard, but if you've never played with it, I'm not sure it's necessary at this point for you either.
<Elbrus> what is the minimum that the root should have: build-essential and ubuntu-minimal?
<jmarsden> Does man 7 sbuild-setup not answer that?  In a rather Debian-focused way, but still... it mentions several things to apt-get.
<jmarsden> Is there a reason you can't use pbuilder, which seems to be simpler to set up and use?
<Elbrus> jmarsden: I used the sbuild-createchroot script which is *supposed* to take care of it
<Elbrus> jmarsden: yes, lazarus does not want to build in it... to much happening before the source is passed to the jail
<Elbrus> might be a bug worth reporting to lazarus, but of that I am not sure
<Elbrus> jmarsden: oh, I use pdebuild, but IIUC that is nearly the same, right/
<Elbrus> s/\//?
<jmarsden> Yes.  You can use   sudo pbuilder --login to play around inside a pbuilder if you need to set something up just so for lazarus?
<jmarsden> Worst case, once lazarus builds for you outside of a chrooted world, you could just upload it to your PPA, and see whether it builds OK there? ;)
<Elbrus> hmm, it really pukes on it before it even gets to pbuild (the clean rule calles patch and unpatch, I think it goes wrong there)
<Elbrus> I prefer only building inside chroots, because I am not so experienced in programming that I trust the handling outside the jail... or am I exagurating here?
<jmarsden> It's up to you... I'm not an expert at all.  I tend to build things in my real live machine, then check for dependency issues etc in a pbuilder, then upload to PPA, then if all of those work, my build is probably OK.
<Elbrus> and how do you build against different ubuntu versions outside a chroot?
<Elbrus> or just test the building on the live machine and then the rest in the PPA?
<Elbrus> jmarsden: thanks for the help
 * Elbrus is going to bed now.
<jmarsden> Elbrus: No problem
<dholbach> good morning
<NCommander> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hi NCommander
<NCommander> how goes it dholbach?
<dholbach> good good - how 'bout you?
<NCommander> Packaging KDE 4.1.80
<nellery> hi dholbach
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> hi nellery
<nellery> where does the --logfile option of pbuilder place the created log?
<Hobbsee> wherever you specify it directly afterwards, normally
<nellery> so --logfile ~/build.log would be fine?
<Hobbsee> yes,b ut that may well end up in /root/build.log if you're not careful.
<nellery> Hobbsee: I see, thanks for your help
<Hobbsee> nellery: you're welcome. If you want to make absolutely sure where it goes, specify an absolute path (eg /home/nellery/build.log)
<nellery> Hobbsee: yup, I got that
<Hobbsee> cool :)
<nellery> thanks
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
<stefanlsd> Laney: around?
<Laney> hi stefanlsd
<stefanlsd> Laney: heys. let me try remember what i wanted to ask you :)
<Laney> :O
<stefanlsd> Laney: I think it was re: bug #246720
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246720 in libavg "libavg should use pkg-config instead of ffmpeg-config" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246720
<Laney> What about it?
<stefanlsd> thats the part i cant remember. was doing the merge of the new libavg and wanted to ask u something bout that.   (was on the weekend, so yeah)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> well if you remember then you can ask me
<jussio1> Laney: what happened to the btnx package?'
<Laney> jussio1: I gave up
<jussio1> :(
<jussio1> why?
<Laney> The code wasn't in good shape iirc
<Laney> have a go at packaging it if you want
<jussio1> Laney: if you failed... Im guessing myskills ar much less than yours...
<Laney> not necessarily!
<jussio1> Laney: Ive not really toched packaging for a while, although I should do....
<DktrKranz> nhandler: re loadlin merge, I've got a working copy in my PPA. Anyway, I just passed -fno-stack-protector to the right location, but I'm still not comfortable with it.
<DktrKranz> I'd like to see it more in detail
<azeem> (IME, the person who did the last loadlin Debian upload is extremely competent at what he does)
<DktrKranz> azeem: well, I'm not confident -fno-stack-protector is the best way to "fix" FTBFS in Ubuntu buildds, absolutely no blame to Debian maint.
<RainCT> hey
<DktrKranz> hey RainCT
<bddebian> Heya gang
<jcfp> motu's, if you have some time please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabnzbdplus
<Laney> YEAH! DO!
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<|eMerzh|> Hi all, i need some help for my package,....i don't understand how to split my package into main and -doc...(http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) ...could someone help me?
<RainCT> |eMerzh|: install everything into debian/tmp and from there put it into the appropiate binary package listing the directories you want to include into it in debian/sqliteman.install and debian/sqliteman-doc.install
<kirkland> kees: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kirkland/bogosec/trunk revisions 294 and 295
<kirkland> kees: mikeowens is repacking for updated upload to revu
<|eMerzh|> RainCT: ok i'll try this
<kees> kirkland: cool!
<RainCT> jono: Hey. Did gnome-shell build correctly for you on Intrepid?
<jono> RainCT, yep
<RainCT> jono: with which automake version?
<jono> RainCT, no idea
<RainCT> jono: dpkg -l | grep automake  :)
<jono> ii  automake                                  1:1.10.1-3                              A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles
<jono> ii  automake1.9                               1.9.6+nogfdl-3ubuntu1                   A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles
<RainCT> jono: Alright, I'll try with this one. Thanks :).   (It's FTBFS here and a guy who is helping me on #gnome-shell said it may be because of automake)
<jono> wicked
<jono> good luck :)
<RainCT> thanks :)
 * RainCT hugs jono -- it build now! :)
<jono> woo!
 * jono hugs RainCT 
<jono> :)
 * directhex pokes RainCT 
 * RainCT looks at directhex 
<directhex> RainCT, mono 2 landed in debian. got a gbrainy transition ready?
<RainCT> directhex: I have some changes in SVN but I'm not sure if there was something missing
<directhex> RainCT, in pkg-cli-apps?
<RainCT> directhex: Yep. svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/gbrainy/trunk
 * |eMerzh| has just udpate his package....any review/comments is welcome (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) thanks to all
<iulian> directhex: I'm the maintainer of giver (it's on http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO) and I wonder what I should do.
<iulian> I've no idea about this transition.
<directhex> iulian, i wrote instructions on http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20Transition#head-67c13a005dab7f510b0fd1ee8db7a30689e89669
<directhex> iulian, if anything's unclear, please ask
 * iulian is looking
<directhex> oh, sodding cdbs. RainCT, looking at your control/rules, you still need to transition it, but i don't understand cdbs enough for the rules change
<directhex> - mono-gmcs (>= 1.1.8)
<directhex> + mono-devel (>= 2.0)
<directhex> that's the control change
<RainCT> directhex: yep, the control change is done, but I've just noticed that I didn't commit it :)
<sebner> RainCT: gbrainy?
<RainCT> directhex: I'll look into the rules one once I've more time (unless you discover what change is required before :))..
<RainCT> sebner: yep
<sebner> RainCT: nice
<RainCT> themuse: where have your caps gone? :P
<directhex> ding ding, who feels like telling me how to add a custom flag to ./configure in cdbs-land?
<directhex> you're all cdbs-using weenies here, right? :p
<sebner> directhex: wÃ¤Ã¤Ã¤Ã¤hhhhhh, noooooooo
<directhex> RainCT, looking at gbrainy source, you need to pass MCS=/usr/bin/csc to ./configure
<directhex> RainCT, but cdbs is scary!
<Laney> directhex: DEB_CONFIGURE_USER_FLAGS += blah
<directhex> aha, there you go. thanks Laney
 * directhex adds to debian wiki
<directhex> how does DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS differ from DEB_CONFIGURE_USER_FLAGS?
<ScottK> IIRC extra adds to the existing list and the other one replaces it.
 * directhex thinks extra is better then
<iulian> directhex: Aren't the packages located at svn.d.o/svn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/pkg?
<Laney> $(DEB_CONFIGURE_INVOKE) $(DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS) $(DEB_USER_CONFIGURE_FLAGS)
<Laney> I don't really understand the difference
<iulian> directhex: Bleah, they aren't. Just checked on alioth machine.
<directhex> iulian, the ones which are in our svn, yes. not all of them are though
<directhex> iulian, we don't steal packages which people don't want to have available for collaborative maintenance
<directhex> except ironpython, we want to steal that one ;)
<iulian> And why can't I co?
<iulian> Heh
<directhex> giver IS in svn?
<iulian> Yes, it is.
<iulian> directhex: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/
<directhex> well, yeah then. don't you have commit access to that folder? o_o
<iulian> 110026(pkg-cli-apps),150026(scm_pkg-cli-apps)
<iulian> I should.
<directhex> well... carry on then!
 * directhex got confused :|
<slytherin> iulian: what is the url you are using?
<directhex> Path: /home/directhex/Projects/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/trunk/debian/rules
<directhex> Last Changed Author: iulian-guest
<iulian> Hmm, then how can I pull that from svn?
<slytherin> iulian: what is the url you are using?
<directhex> URL: svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/
<directhex> use your iulian-guest alioth login
<iulian> slytherin: ^
<iulian> directhex: I believe I did that.
<directhex> probably need to set it in ~/.ssh/config
<iulian> Hmm, I will try again.
<directhex> Host svn.debian.org
<directhex> User directhex-guest
<iulian> I usually use iulian-guest@svn.d.o
<slytherin> iulian: I believe the url should be svn+ssh://svn.debian.org/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/
<amikrop> Hi. When I boot with the vga=791 option, the tty resolution is set correctly, but my splash screen is messed up. Any help, please?
<iulian> svn+ssh://iulian-guest@svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver: No such file or directory
<iulian> Am I missing something?
 * RainCT grumbles about aptitude not accepting alternative installs (ie, "aptitude install a | b", which wouldn't do anything if either of them is installed) :P
<directhex> iulian, odd. try just checking out svn+ssh://iulian-guest@svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-cli-apps ?
<slytherin> directhex: I believe that /svn/pkg-cli-apps should be only /pkg-cli-apps
<directhex> oh, should it? balls
<iulian> directhex: Ah crap. Forgot the co part. This is the reason why it didn't work. svn is just not my preferred vcs TBH.
<directhex> iulian, well, until alioth has a Visual SourceSafe service... :(
<iulian> slytherin: There is no pkg-cli-apps dir in /. So it should be /svn/pkg-cli-apps.
<iulian> Yay, he already left.
<directhex> iulian, got there in the end? \o/
<iulian> directhex: Why you guys don't switch to git? IIRC I talked to meebey a few months ago and he wasn't too happy about how svn works.
<amikrop> When I boot with the vga=791 option, the tty resolution is set correctly, but my splash screen is messed up. Any help, please?
<directhex> iulian, does alioth do git? is that recent?
<directhex> amikrop, change the settings in /etc/usplash.conf
<amikrop> directhex: and make them what?
<directhex> amikrop, erm, make them match 791?
<directhex> i think 791 is 1024x768 isn't it?
<amikrop> directhex: currently, they are my screen's full res
<amikrop> directhex: yes
<amikrop> directhex: currently, they are 1920x1200
<directhex> ah, was about to ask if it was widescreen trouble
<amikrop> directhex: I *have* a widescreen, right?
<iulian> directhex: No, I believe not. lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2006-10-25 12:02 /git -> /srv/git.debian.org/git
<amikrop> directhex: ?
<directhex> i'd love to fix usplash to cope with widescreen properly, but it's funky c, and i'm scared of just offering backseat programming advice to someone like mjg59
<directhex> amikrop, 1920x1200 is 19:10 widescreen, yes. 24/27" tft.
<directhex> amikrop, but 791 is a non-widescreen mode
<amikrop> directhex: so, what mode would be good for my ttys?
<directhex> amikrop, well, "best" would be a 1920x1200 framebuffer
<amikrop> directhex: there is not a mode for 1920x1200
<directhex> amikrop, not if you're reading charts from sites like linuxquestions there isn't
<amikrop> directhex: but...?
<directhex> amikrop, install "hwinfo", run "sudo hwinfo --framebuffer"
<directhex> amikrop, your GPU may offer a non-standard >1024 mode
<directhex> e.g. my laptop has 1280x800
<amikrop> directhex: ok, it diplsayed many modes
<amikrop> which should I choose?
<directhex> amikrop, it displays modes in hex, e.g   Mode 0x0307: 1280x1024 (+1280), 8 bits
<directhex> amikrop, pick the "best" mode you can find, and convert the hex mode to decimal
<amikrop> directhex: I know, I just ran it
<amikrop> directhex: what is the "best"?
<directhex> amikrop, well, 1920x1200x24, if you have it
<amikrop> The onw with the higher bits? the one with the +number in parantheses? the higher res?
<amikrop> * one
<jmarsden|work> amikrop: 1920x1200 with 24 bits is the one you want
<amikrop> directhex: it is not available
<amikrop> jmarsden: it is not available
 * directhex smells user support rather than packaging work
<amikrop> directhex: two "good" ones seem to be 1600x1200x16 and 1024x768x24
<amikrop> sorry
<directhex> amikrop, well, use one of those then.
<amikrop> 1280x1024x24 and 1600x1200x16
<amikrop> directhex: what is the best of these two?
<directhex> convert the Mode to decimal and use that line in your menu.lst - e.g.   "Mode 0x0317: 1024x768 (+2048), 16 bits" might look familiar
<directhex> amikrop, which do you care more about, the resolution or the color depth? in your consoles, this is.
<amikrop> directhex: well, which do *you* care about most, in your consoles?
<amikrop> directhex: so? :-)
<directhex> amikrop, which do you want in your text console. 65,536 colours or 16,777,216 colours?
<amikrop> directhex: It doesn't matter so much, I guess...
<amikrop> directhex: Because it is just a console.
<amikrop> directhex: right?
<directhex> right. but i wasn't answering for you
<amikrop> directhex: excuse me? you weren't answering for me? I didn't understand that...
<directhex> amikrop, you spent 10 minutes asking which number was bigger, in a development channel
<amikrop> directhex: Well, I am sorry.
<directhex> amikrop, so like i said. pick the mode you want to use, convert the Mode 0x bit to decimal, use that number instead of 791, and ensure /etc/usplash.conf matches it
<amikrop> directhex: after, $ sudo update-initramfs -u ?
<directhex> yeah.
<directhex> and update-grub after changing menu.lst
<amikrop> ok, thanks, and excuse me, again
<directhex> was i out of order? O-o
<iulian> directhex: Is it required to add CSC=/usr/bin/csc when configuring?
<amikrop> directhex: I put vga=884 for 1600x1200x16 but it told me that the the mode 386 or somthing was invalid (during boot) and it prompted me to choose on now. And it gave me a list with modes different than that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrameBuffer#grub.
<directhex> iulian, strictly speaking, we'll let you live as long as you were already using gmcs - but we want to see the compiler overridden to be 'csc', which is our 'default c# compiler for this release' executable
<amikrop> directhex: It gave me a list with 3xy, 3xz etc, and not 7xy, 8xz like the one above
<amikrop> I guess its the decimal conversion part, which you told me about
<iulian> directhex: Ah-ha
<directhex> amikrop, then your GPU behaves funny and doesn't offer high res modes until late in the boot process (e.g. after the driver is loaded). my old geforce did that
<directhex> iulian, but different apps use a different thing in autoconf - i need to check the giver source to see if it uses CSC or MCS or CAKE or what
<directhex> hm, no autofoo in giver. sigh
<amikrop> directhex: any suggestions?
<iulian> directhex: That would be great. In the meantime I will test the package to see if it works.
<iulian> directhex: Ah, OK.
<directhex> iulian, looks like it takes GMCS
<directhex> so GMCS=/usr/bin/csc
<directhex> amikrop, well, when in doubt, back down to 791 shou;d always work
<amikrop> directhex: but 791 is not wide screen
<directhex> amikrop, neither is any of the modes you mentioned. and usplash doesn't work peoperly with widescreen consoles
<amikrop> directhex: ok, then. thanks.
<iulian> directhex: Shouldn't it be /gmcs instead of /csc?
<directhex> iulian, currently csc is a link to gmcs.
<directhex> iulian, upstream have talked about merging gmcs and mcs again - so we might do something make sure we can phase changes to suit us
<directhex> iulian, the way 'python' isn't neccessarily 'python3.0'
<iulian> OK, I will just use csc then.
<Rinchen> Hi MOTUs!  Question... I've just been alerted to a security exposure in a MOTU packaged Universe package.  Whom do I report this too?
<Rinchen> Bug on the source package?
<directhex> iulian, looks like you might get the honour of being the first *app* to be transitioned :p
<RainCT> Rinchen: Yep
<iulian> directhex: Oh, really? Cool ;)
<RainCT> Rinchen: there's an option to make the bug private
<Rinchen> right... ok.
<Rinchen> looks like it was filed
<handschuh> Is there anybody who wants to be the second advocate on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=uiflite ?
<Rinchen> but not marked as a security vuln
<directhex> iulian, unless you & RainCT get into some kind of exciting battle
<Rinchen> actually, it is...
 * Rinchen curses his LP Admin privs sometimes :-)
<Rinchen> thanks
<RainCT> np
<RainCT> directhex: heh, no, I leave him the honor :)
<directhex> the weekend's mono 2 transition work made both ars technica and boycott novell \o/
<iulian> directhex: I see that mono-devel is still in experimental. Should I target it to experimental as well?
<directhex> iulian, yes.
<directhex> iulian, this is pre-work for squeeze! and jaunty, of course
<iulian> directhex: Yeah, wondered why pbuilder failed.
<directhex> ah. i recommend you test against jaunty in pbuilder for now
<directhex> as mono 2.0-1 in experimental is a little broken - 2.0.1 should land later tonight
<iulian> OK
<directhex> (it's already in jaunty)
<ajmitch> directhex: how many nastygrams have you got for supporting the evil mono?
<directhex> ajmitch, to my inbox? only one. the anti-mono crowd are mostly cowards, so they just insulte me on irc & blogs
<ajmitch> directhex, singlehandedly destroying free software ;)
<directhex> ajmitch, not at all. meebey is the jedi master of mono on debian. it'd go nowhere without him
<ajmitch> I know
<amikrop> I sticked with 791. How can I set my TTYs to be colorful, now? Is it an option in ~/.bash_profile or something?
<amikrop> directhex
<directhex> yes.
<amikrop> directhex: How can I find out which option it it?
<directhex> force_color_prompt=yes
<directhex> in bashrc
<DRebellion> Hi, could anybody point me to a list of the possible values for the Section: field in debian/control?
<amikrop> directhex: thanks :)
<iulian> directhex: It's done. It built without problems. Please take a peek at http://users.alioth.debian.org/~iulian-guest/giver_diff
<directhex> iulian, looks perfect to me, let me run it by meebey
<iulian> directhex: OK, I will commit to svn as well.
<slytherin> can someone please give back libxpp3-java?
<ScottK> slytherin: Done.
<directhex> bring it back, sing it back, bring it back, sing it back to meeeeeeeee
<slytherin> ScottK: thanks
<directhex> iulian, apparently your restructured rules are a bit odd (the mono 2 transition bit is fine), can you join oftc #debian-mono to speak with meebey?
<iulian> Sure
<|eMerzh|> if someone want to review my updated package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman) ... please feel free to leave comments or advocacy
<amikrop> directhex: PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$ ' this line displays green. how can I make it display red?
<slytherin> |eMerzh|: There is no need to advertise the package so frequently except on revu days.
<directhex> amikrop, i'm no expert on ANSI color codes
<ajmitch> play with the numbers
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I'm writing the debian/copyright file for a software that is 'GPL' (that's what there is in source files). Is it the same as GPL-2+ ?
<amikrop> ajmitch: which numbers?
<ajmitch> 32m & 34m
<amikrop> directhex: at least, do you know what part is about the color?
 * ajmitch can't remember, it's been so long
<directhex> fabrice_sp, what does the COPYING file it comes with say?
<ajmitch> fabrice_sp: they don't have the usual GPL header in the source?
<fabrice_sp> COPYING says "GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE"
<directhex> no version? seriously sounds like v1 o_o
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> but v1 has been superseded by v2, right?
<ajmitch> any date mentioned in COPYING?
<fabrice_sp> Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
<ajmitch> sounds like GPL 2
<fabrice_sp> yes: i've just found that: Version 2, June 1991
<fabrice_sp> so it's a GPL-2 only? No +?
<fabrice_sp> my reviewer in REVU tells me about GPL-3 :-/
<|eMerzh|> slytherin: oups...don't want to upset ....just impatient to see if it 'll we accepted....its my first package....
<ajmitch> does the source file not have the appropriate GPL headers in comments?
<slytherin> fabrice_sp: check if all files are under same license.
<fabrice_sp> slytherin: That's what I'm doing
<fabrice_sp> but the sources files only have 'Licence:     GPL'
<slytherin> |eMerzh|: Don't worry, someone will review it eventually
<slytherin> geser: ping
<fabrice_sp> so COPYING licence (GPL-2) apply in that case?
<fabrice_sp> arghh: one source file  is under wxWindows licence :-/
<ajmitch> oh fun
<ajmitch> copyright stuff is a hassle at best
<fabrice_sp> ajmitch: yes :-/
<fabrice_sp> the new format for copyright file is clearer, I think
<fabrice_sp> so it's a bit easier
<slytherin> ScottK: one more please - libjboss-classloader-java
<slytherin> ScottK: ping
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-26
<ScottK> Lovely.
<ScottK> From /topic in #launchpad:
<ScottK> Need help? Community help contact: -".
<ScottK> That's where it ends.
<ajmitch> ok, relevant how?
<azeem> hey ajmitch
<ScottK> Relevant to my standard frustration about having to use poorly designed tools.
<ajmitch> hi azeem
<jmarsden|work> ScottK: You don't *have* to use the topic message of #launchpad though ;)
<ScottK> My current frustration is trying to understand how after all the investment in making translations wonderful with Rosetta, we managed to release Intrepid with KDE translations substantially worse than what upstream provides.
<ScottK> jmarsden|work: True, but that's one place I'd look for help with the tools I do need to use.
<nellery> Does anybody have any ideas to what is caused this FTBFS? http://paste.ubuntu.com/76970/
<azeem> nellery: looks like some misconfigured pbuilder, maybe?
<nellery> azeem: it fails in a PPA as well
<azeem> nellery: what about debhelper (>= 5.0.51~), are you sure that version is legal in Build-Depends?
<nellery> the current Jaunty package also fails, but I believe it succeeds in Intrepid
<nellery> azeem: I haven't modified that, and it worked previously
<james_w> nellery: I saw a kind of related bug report
<ScottK> azeem: That's legal.
<azeem> k
<nellery> james_w: do you recall in which package?
<james_w> nellery: I can't find it now
<james_w> I decided it wasn't the same bug though
<james_w> it may be that this package is part way through some sort of transition in jaunty
<nellery> james_w: so there's nothing that can be done right now?
<james_w> nellery: I don't know, I'm just hypothesising
<nellery> ok
<james_w> it seems like KJS might have moved in to the kde4libs package now
<maco> i packaged swfdec 0.8.2 for my own use on hardy.  i see it's not packaged for jaunty yet.  can i change the source package to say jaunty and then do um, something with it to get it in jaunty's universe?
<StevenK> I note swfdec isn't in either Debian or Ubuntu
<maco> it's libswfdec
<maco> libswfdec-0.6, libswfdec-0.7, and libswfdec-0.8-0
<maco> oh wait
<maco> well that's confusing. nevermind
<maco> it's still called -0.8 even though in jaunty it's 0.8.2, so that's just confusing naming
<maco> sorry
<Elbrus> two comments for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Elbrus> 1: I would assume that licensing issues are also a reason for SRU: if yes, that should be added
<Elbrus> 2: is there a recommended naming convention for SRU packages?
<asomething> I could have sworn that page used to recommend a naming convention of bumping up the version by a point for SRUs like so: XubuntuX.X      but I don't see it anymore
<asomething> eg: a SRU to pidgin version 1:2.5.2-0ubuntu1 would be 1:2.5.2-0ubuntu1.1
<ScottK> asomething: It's -security where that's a rule.  For SRU it's not hard and fast, but that's a good practice to follow.
<ryanakca> When merging, should one remove DM-Upload-Allowed: yes , or does Ubuntu ignore the field?
<RAOF> We ignore it
<ryanakca> RAOF: *nod*, thanks
<ScottK> Is something up with Soyuz?  I see all but one buildd idle and packages in queue.
 * Elbrus is working an his SRU again.
<Elbrus> should I test to build all reverse dependencies?
<Elbrus> or just if dependencies still work?
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<SUNWjoejaxx> dholbach: hello
<dholbach> hi SUNWjoejaxx
<SUNWjoejaxx> dholbach: has the policy changed for merges?
<dholbach> SUNWjoejaxx: what do you mean?
<SUNWjoejaxx> dholbach: ie getting in contact with the original merger
<SUNWjoejaxx> dholbach: i have not done merges in a while :P
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
<dholbach> "Before starting to work on the merge, you should check with the previous maintainer and/or the previous uploader, if they intend to work on the merge themselves. They might give you useful tips as well, even if they delegate the task to you. The DaD site also has a comments field where you can often find notes about the merge."
<dholbach> at some time in the cycle I guess merges are going to be deemed "free for all"
<SUNWjoejaxx> oh ok
<dholbach> and I can't remember that that kind of announce went out for this cycle yet :)
<SUNWjoejaxx> ;)
<dholbach> a quick ping is ususally good enough
<SUNWjoejaxx> yeah
<SUNWjoejaxx> dholbach: thanks for the info
<SUNWjoejaxx> i just wanted to know whether the standard procedure had changed or not :D
<dholbach> unless something is ridiculously complicated, everybody will be happy to have a helping hand
<dholbach> no
<SUNWjoejaxx> ok
<Hobbsee> and usually if it is, or if they remember something particularly important about it, they'll tell you, as a heads-up, to try to save you some work
<SUNWjoejaxx> :)
<SUNWjoejaxx> does anyone happen to know why grab-merge.sh has output suppressed for wget?
<SUNWjoejaxx> if you set the option to use rsync, rsync is set with verbosity on
<SUNWjoejaxx> :P
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<slytherin> Can anyone please give back libjboss-deployers-java?
<directhex> give back! give back! give back to where you once belonged!
<james_w> slytherin: done
<geser> slytherin: you pinged me yesterday?
<directhex> anyone know offhand where current OOo3 dev work can be found?
<directhex> i'm trying test builds against jaunty with the package from experimental, which is probably... bad
<slytherin> geser: I did, I guess it was something about jboss. But don't remember what.
<slytherin> directhex: There are already some builds for intrepid in some ppa. Let me see if I can find link.
<directhex> slytherin, looks like someone yanked them for being crashy
<xerxas> Hi all
<gnomefreak> if you are looking for intrepid builds of oo.o 3 he did pull them
<slytherin> directhex: oh, you are right.
<directhex> slytherin, i mostly want buildy, so crashy doesn't fuss me
<xerxas> anyone know where to get a xen dom0 kernel for intrepid ?
<slytherin> geser: I remember now. libjboss-cache1-java still fails to build. So unless we find solution for that or all reverse-build-depends of libjboss-cache1-java start using libjboss-cache2-java (currently in Debian NEW), there is no way out of that mess.
<geser> would using libjboss-cache2-java solve the FTBFS?
<slytherin> geser: that is what my analysis in last dev cycle concluded. I can redo the analysis again.
<geser> what about the new libjboss-cache1-java package in NEW? Might that new upstream version also fix the FTBFS?
<slytherin> geser: haven't checked. I can try building local packages.
<geser> thanks
<directhex> if i set a DIST=experimental with pbuilder, it pins sid at 500 and experimental at 990 and third-party repos at 500. suggestions to make third party > experimental?
<slytherin> directhex: I think that should be done.
<directhex> slytherin, nah, s'not. but i found a workaround. now need to start again from scratch as mister third-party repo is i386-only
<directhex> gah, OOo fails to build again. how can people stay sane maintaining this?
<Hobbsee> they don't.
<Hobbsee> they go insane very early on
 * directhex tries again - OOo seems to randomly fail in transient ways
<bmm> I'm looking for a first advocate to an update: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild Thanks in advance for any comments.
<bmm> Also, I think there is some aggressive caching on REVU because the date on the page is wrong, it says: "Next REVU Day: TODAY (Friday, November 21th 2008)"
<nhandler> bmm: I just updated the REVU Header page. The date should update itself shortly.
<bmm> nhandler: k :)
<nhandler> RainCT: REVU automatically pulls the date of the next REVU Day from the REVU Header wiki page, right?
<RainCT> nhandler: correct
<nhandler> bmm: The date is up-to-date now ;)
<RainCT> nhandler: what was the problem?
<RainCT> oh, I forgot to change it?
<nhandler> RainCT: The date never got updated from last week.
<RainCT> nhandler: thanks for changing it
<nhandler> No problem RainCT
<nhandler> Mythbusters reference in XKCD -- http://xkcd.com/509/
<nhandler> oops, wrong channel ;)
<RainCT> heh
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package ...(http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<james_w> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi james_w
<ScottK> nxvl: http://metelliuscode.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/idea-of-the-week-universal-config-file-user-interface/ may want to hear about Augeaus.
<ScottK> heya bddebian.
<nxvl> ScottK: thank you, i will take a look
<james_w> a few commenters already pointed them to it
<bddebian> Hi ScottK
<directhex> building OOo is damn slow :x
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<sebner> hihi bddebian geser
<slytherin> directhex: is that a news? :-P
<directhex> slytherin, i go home in about 40 minutes, and the build is running on my laptop :/
<directhex> slytherin, gonna have to leave it in the office
<directhex> unless it finishes some time soon
<slytherin> directhex: it is going to make much more time for that. So if you started build not long ago then go home and start build again
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<geser> Hi sebner
<directhex> how much of this time is damn docs? o_o
<slytherin> directhex: check build timings - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/openoffice.org/+builds Minimum is 8 hours 20 minutes.
<directhex> gah -_-
<sebner> geser: are there any docs mentioning how long the MC has time to make a decision? :P
<directhex> i wonder how long the battery in here would last running flat out
<slytherin> james_w: Just FYI Debian uploader for lucene2 has accepted that the patch should be dropped - http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506782
<ubottu> Debian bug 506782 in lucene2 "Patch 81_prevent-network-access.dpatch is not needed anymore" [Unknown,Open]
<james_w> slytherin: cool, do you know if they plan to upload soon?
<slytherin> james_w: no idea, I am too tired (mentally) to keep a watch. I will check tomorrow and change our bug from merge to sync accordingly.
<james_w> slytherin: I'm happy to sponsor the merge if you're not sure it's about to be uploaded
<slytherin> james_w: Let's wait for a day. No point in doing repetitive work.
<james_w> slytherin: fine by me, thanks for taking care of it
<slytherin> james_w: Thanks for suggesting it. Helps to improve process and collaboration. :-)
<geser> sebner: there are some docs, but they aren't followed from the beginning
<geser> sebner: the MC is working on the issue but the changes come to late for you
<sebner> geser: heh
<geser> sebner: why have you needed to start such a discussion with your application? Now I need to find time to read it all and make my mind about it :)
<sebner> geser: I'm so sorry but I was bored and thought a email discussion would be fun ;-P
<jdong> p
<jdong> ow. fell out of my chair.
<jdong> LucidFox: are you still looking into Handbrake? I noticed 0.9.3 is out now and is basically a ffmpeg swiss-army-knife (arbitrary input); I'd like to get it into Intrepid.
<jdong> err wow I damaged my brain from that fall. Jaunty.
<jpds> lamont: re: I'll make a nmap debdiff as soon as I can.
<kamg> hi.. I have a package question:  I've installed virtualbox-ose version 1.5.6-dfsg-6ubuntu1, but when I open it and go to Help=>About, it says it's 1.6.2.  And for some reason it doesn't jive with the drivers that are installed as a separate package.  Might the version mismatch be a sign of my problem, or am I going down the rabbit-hole?
<slytherin> james_w`: the change for lucene2 has landed in pkg-java svn. So let's hope we will have a new package by tomorrow.
<james_w`> slytherin: cool
<jdong> leleobhz: I noticed you made the last attempt to package Handbrake; I'm looking at 0.9.3 right now, do you still have interest to continue your package on REVU?
<slytherin> kamg: you probably have two parallel installations and the one you are launching is different than you are expecting
<kamg> yep I thought that too, but when apt-get remove, what I was using goes away
<slytherin> kamg: on command line enter command - which virtualbox - to see which binary is being used.
<kamg> /usr/bin/virtualbox
<slytherin> kamg: are you kaunching virtualbox from command line or from menu?
<kamg> command line
<kamg> same result from the menu though
<directhex> still building... put the laptop on the back seat of the car, it has a pretty good battery even under intense load
<kamg> this is a relatively brand new ubuntu install - I just installed it yesterday so I don't have old versions of things hanging around
<slytherin> kamg: can't help much. No idea what is wrong.
<kamg> ok... how about this: how do I install older versions of things?
<kamg> like... how can I install the previous version of virtualbox (and figure out what it is)?
<slytherin> kamg: no idea. :-(
<lamont> jpds: even better... just a diff of the source.
<jpds> lamont: debdiff of debian/ dir sent.
<jpds> (Sorry; sent mail before checking IRC).
<leleobhz> jdong: ping
<bmm> I'm looking for my first advocate: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ccbuild
<leleobhz> jdong: sorry by the lag... i want to mantain the package
<bmm> Also, I just got a mail that the older version of that package failed to build (the new g++ is more strict :) ) So any comments to work out any of the kinks in the package are welcome.
<leleobhz> jdong: but i cant find a way to provide what RainCT told-me to do
<leleobhz> (find a way to dont require downloads in compilation time)
<RAOF> bmm: That's been uploaded to the archive; are we doing version updates on revu now?
<nhandler> RAOF and bmm: REVU should only be used for new packages, not version updates
<RAOF> nhandler: Thought so.  Thanks.
<nhandler> np RAOF
<bmm> nhandler: ooooh?
<bmm> that is news to me :D
<bmm> ROAF: so the update has already been done?
<nhandler> To do an update, you just attach the .diff.gz to a LP bug report and subscribe the sponsors
<bmm> nhandler: ok, cool.. that will probably help allot. How do I find out who the sponsors are?
<nhandler> bmm: Is the package in universe or main?
<RainCT> bmm: ubuntu-universe-sponsors or ubuntu-main-sponsors, depending on the component
<bmm> Universe
<nhandler> Subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors bmm
<bmm> nhandler: ok, thanks! I'll get right on it. So just to be clear: file a needs-packaging bug with a diff.gz on LP and subscrive ubuntu-universe-sponsors ?
<nhandler> Not a needs-packaging bug bmm. Just an upgrade bug
<bmm> nhandler: ok.
<nhandler> bmm: Also, be sure to test build the package
<bmm> nhandler: already did, it's in my PPA without any problems :)
<nhandler> :)
<eMerzh> **advertising*** could someone review my package on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman....it would be very nice :p **/end advertising**
<ryanakca> Would anybody have a link to the bug template to have a package removed? I'm searching through the wiki, but I can't seem to find it..
<nhandler> ryanakca: I don't think there is a template. Just look at some other removal request bugs to get an idea for the information you need to include
<ryanakca> nhandler: thanks
<blueyed> Is there a powerpc-Team in Ubuntu?
<blueyed> Bug 297842 appears to need a rebuild on ppc and it might be a more general problem.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 297842 in thunar "Thunar segfaults on powerpc (rebuild needed)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/297842
<TheMuso> Not a team as such, but there are a few of us who have the hardware.
<TheMuso> Myself being one of them.
 * TheMuso looks at the bug.
<blueyed> TheMuso: thanks.
<blueyed> TheMuso: left a new comment there.
<jdong> leleobhz: cool; do you want to first sync up to the new 0.9.3 release and let's revisit it?
<TheMuso> blueyed: Just saw that, thanks.
<TheMuso> blueyed: I think for completeness, I'll set up an xubuntu environment on one of my boxes to work out whats going on.
<blueyed> TheMuso: thanks a lot!
<blueyed> TheMuso: I've accepted the two bug tasks for Intrepid/Jaunty, please change them as necessary.
<TheMuso> blueyed: Sure.
<nedko> hi, i have a problem and i need an advice
<nedko> i've refactored a package i maintain
<nedko> this lead to requiring dist-upgrade
<nedko> automatic updates system however fails to do "partial update" because packages are not signed (they are build at launchpad)
<nedko> what can i do so users get automatic update?
<leleobhz> jdong: i need a week at least
<jdong>  leleobhz sure, no hurry.
<james_w> anybody fancy running a MOTU school session?
<Hobbsee> on?
<james_w> fixing problems on architectures you don't have might be an interesting one with the introduction of ARM
<directhex> james_w, step 1, ping NCommander
<directhex> step 2, have a nap
<james_w> :-)
<Hobbsee> directhex++
<pochu> if anybody feels like taking the eclipse merge, I won't complain :-)
<directhex> merging is sucky. make eclipse syncable!
<james_w> pochu: fancy running a session on merging eclipse? :-)
 * NCommander hits directhex so hard he becomes directoct
<nhandler> Hobbsee: You can also look at the Requests page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests)
<james_w> there have been several requests for a Java session
<james_w> directhex: you could do one on the mono transition, it would enable more people to help with it
<pochu> james_w: I'd get a lot of questions asking why eclipse 3.4 isn't in the archive yet :-)
<pochu> james_w: we just had UOW, weren't there enough sessions already? ;-)
<directhex> james_w, ehm... when is this?
 * Hobbsee looks
<james_w> directhex: whenever
<james_w> MOTU School is just as often as anyone can organise a session currently
<nhandler> james_w: Shouldn't the requests table be updated to not list sessions that have already been given?
<james_w> nhandler: it should
<Hobbsee> nhandler: what would be really useful is if that page grew the links to irc logs, etc, for the sessions that had been done.
<nhandler> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School has links to the irc logs
<Hobbsee> ah
<directhex> monodoc_2.0-1_i386.changes uploaded successfully to localhost
<directhex> From: 	Archive Administrator <dak@ftp-master.debian.org>
<Hobbsee> oh dear.  prepare for more hatemail
<james_w> nhandler: you have your name next to a merging one. Would you like to do that?
<nhandler> james_w: I did it a while ago (but it didn't go too well). The logs are on the /MOTU/School page
<james_w> nhandler: ah, ok. We can always repeat sessions, but I can understand if you don't want to
<directhex> Hobbsee, i'm turning into a sociopath. i think it's the part i enjoy most
<nhandler> james_w: I might do it agagin, but I would rather wait a little longer.
<james_w> nhandler: sure
<Hobbsee> hah
<nhandler> james_w: Since Debian doesn't really do "School Sessions", do you think a topic about ways to contribute back to Debian would be appropriate?
<james_w> yeah, I think that would be a good one
<nhandler> I'll add it to the list
<nhandler> james_w: Are you still editing the page?
<james_w> nhandler: ah, no, sorry I pressed back instead of cancel
<directhex> From: 	Archive Administrator <dak@ftp-master.debian.org>
<directhex> mono-debugger_2.0-1_i386.changes uploaded successfully to localhost
<james_w> what is this? debian-changes? :-)
<directhex> james_w, yes!
<directhex> james_w, gonna need to file a sync on that one once it hits the archive
<nhandler> james_w: I added the session idea to the request list
<james_w> thanks nhandler
<james_w> does KDE use pkg-config?
<james_w> or does cmake take care of that stuff?>
 * Hobbsee tentatively guesses cmake handles it
 * Hobbsee hasn't dealt with cmake much though
<directhex> i was told kde is not a land of pkg-config
<directhex> i believe the guy who said it
<btm> what needs to happen to get a package in debian experimental considered for jaunty or jaunty+1 ?
<directhex> btm, file a sync request
<directhex> btm, or merge w/ patch if required
<btm> directhex: as a bug in launchpad against a source package? it builds in intrepid fine.
<directhex> btm, yes
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-27
<james_w> does anyone use the .dsc provided in new upstream version requests?
<james_w> I guess that is a bit easier
<nhandler> james_w: I was told that you only needed the .diff.gz, I don't think you need the .dsc
<james_w> you don't
<james_w> some people provide it though, I just tried using it for the first time
<james_w> it is slightly more efficient in my opinion
<TheMuso> james_w: I use it if supplied, and I agree, it is more efficient.
<james_w> TheMuso: are you able to confirm that ogg123 plays flac files?
<directhex> $ ogg123 17\ -\ Porcelina\ of\ the\ Vast\ Oceans.flac
<directhex> Playing: 17 - Porcelina of the Vast Oceans.flac
<directhex> FLAC stream: 16 bits, 2 channel, 44100 Hz
<directhex> james_w, ^^
<james_w> thanks didrocks
<james_w> and than you directhex :-)
<TheMuso> luke@barbiton:/usr/bin$ objdump -p ogg123 | grep NEEDED | grep FLAC NEEDED               libFLAC.so.8
<TheMuso> Its linked against libFLAC.
<james_w> thanks TheMuso
<directhex> is that a good thing or a bad thing?
<TheMuso> Good thing.
<TheMuso> It causes vorbis-tools to depend on libflac however.
<TheMuso> At the same time, flac can be in an ogg container.
<directhex> vorbis-tools is a misnomer though ;)
<serialorder> I got an email saying that a merge i performed was recently failed to build for lpia, that was not an architecture listed in the package
<serialorder> is this something I should follow up on ??
<crimsun> serialorder: for the vast majority of source packages, yes
<serialorder> crimun:how should i go about doing that?
<serialorder> this was the error: dpkg-gencontrol: error: current host architecture 'lpia' does not appear in package's architecture list (alpha amd64 arm hppa i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc kfreebsd-i386 m68k hurd-i386 s390)
<slangasek> typically, by adding lpia to the supported arch list
<slangasek> (what package?)
<serialorder> clisp
<serialorder> here is the build error http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19927900/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-lpia.clisp_1%3A2.44.1-4.1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<slangasek> hmm; should be compatible with lpia, might take a couple of passes to get it building right though if there are embedded architecture assumptions within the source
<slangasek> at least it doesn't appear to require itself as a build-dep
<slangasek> oh, the build log shows it got all the way to the end before failing, heh
<slangasek> so yeah, just adding 'lpia' to the arch list should be sufficient
<serialorder> ok
<serialorder> is there a way that I can check that adding this will fix the problem? basically I don't know how to tell it to try and build lpia
<TheMuso> serialorder: If you wanted to, you could set up an lpia chroot.
<TheMuso> Assuming you are running on x86/x86_64.
<serialorder> i am
<serialorder> ok i guess I can try that
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<dholbach> good morning
<nellery> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi nellery
<didrocks> good morning
 * didrocks likes to be hugged instead of directhex \o/
<slytherin> dholbach: We were planning to avoid repeat work and instead sync from Debian directly. :-)
<slytherin> dholbach: I am talking about lucene2
<dholbach> slytherin: yeah, I thought "let's see how long it takes to get it applied - just sync the next revision" :)
<slytherin> dholbach: The change is already in pkg-java svn so I thought it will take 1-2 days at max. :-)
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> well... :-)
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Morning geser.
<geser> Hi iulian
<eMerzh> if someone is in a reviewing mood....my package is waiting for comments : http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :) thanks
<slytherin> geser: good morning
<geser> Hi slytherin
<tuxcrafter> hi everybody
<tuxcrafter> i saw that ubuntu ships nice looking icons for the desktop icons and mine icons of openoffice.org
<tuxcrafter> where are the upstream icons for this?
<tuxcrafter>  i would like to have them in debian sid
<Hobbsee> tuxcrafter: you probably want to ask calc.
<tuxcrafter> calc: ping
<tuxcrafter> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> tuxcrafter: you're welcome
<verwilst> if an app has postgresql-8.1 as a recommends
<verwilst> wouldnt the best way to change it be to set the recommends to postgresql?
<verwilst> without a version?
<verwilst> so that it will always recommend the latest postgresql server?
<slytherin> verwilst: if the application uses some feature that is not available in later versions of postgresql then unversioned dependency will be a problem
<verwilst> nah it doesnt
<Hobbsee> verwilst: depends if the app needs changes to work with the latter versions
<verwilst> the requirements just say pgsql 7.0.x or higher :)
<verwilst> so that pretty much covers it all
 * soren high-fives geser
<soren> geser: We're among the last three remaining direct members of ubuntu-dev :)
<geser> :)
 * soren feels all special
<sebner> soren: you also part of the MC group that didn't vote yet (on me and others) :P
<soren> sebner: That too. :/
<sebner> heh
<sebner> soren feels more special now ^ ^
 * directhex smiles sweetly @ nice people, requests someone use magic sync powers on LP #300156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 300156 in mono-debugger "mono-debugger 2.0 package" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/300156
<slytherin> directhex: I think you should file a separate bug for sync.
 * Hobbsee suggests asking someone with direct syncing powers, like pitti
<directhex> yeah, i'll ask, he seems in a good mood
<bmm> Pressing archive gave me a mod_python error: http://pastebin.com/m207e57e
<morgs> james_w: could you please take a look at bug 263173 some time for me? Please let me know if there's anything else I need to do.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<james_w> hey morgs
<morgs> hey james_w :)
<james_w> morgs: you need to subscribe motu-sru and get their ACK first
<directhex> it's a slomo!
<morgs> james_w: ah thanks
<AnAnt> superm1: ping
<RainCT> woooo branches \o/
<quadrispro> RainCT: hi, can you take a look to this? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=installation-report-generator
<chillywilly> I'm upgrading to Ibex and it looks like the post install stuff of the kernel source package actually built the kernel module for the prop. graphics stuff...anyone know if I would still need to build the nvidia graphics driver to get 3d suport with a GeForce4?
<chillywilly> I was under the impression that I would still need to build the graphics driver using the source from their forum/website
<hyperair> chillywilly: depends which geforce4 it is. if i'm not mistaken, it would be nvidia-glx-96
<hyperair> chillywilly: shouldn't you be asking this in #ubuntu instead?
<chillywilly> sorry for asking a luser question in here, but I am pretty sure I have more knowledge than the typical luser I just haven't been able to keep up with that's going on in ubuntu land
<chillywilly> sorry :(
<hyperair> chillywilly: it's not about whether or not your question's a simple question, it's more of where it should be asked. but nevermind, i've seen lots of off-topic talk here ;)
<directhex> hyperair, offtopic? here? never!
 * directhex wonders who wants to see a photo of his chinchillas. they're fluffy!
<laga> directhex: i'd like to see that
<directhex> laga, http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/IMG_0881.JPG
<laga> fluffy!
<laga> directhex: wanna see a picture of my new desk?
<directhex> laga, of course!#
<laga> directhex: okay. i got it two hours ago. let me set up the monitor ;)
<laga> duh, i forgot the wiring for the tft. i'll have to get one another time then
<directhex> laga, white connector into white hole!
<nxvl> james_w: thank you for the bzr branches!
<james_w> nxvl: no problem :-)
<hyperair> directhex: my monitor connectors are black and blue
<directhex> poor hyperair
<directhex> white is the new blue!
<directhex> then again, black is the new white
<directhex> it's all come full cirlc
<directhex> e
<phoenix_rebearth> testing
<phoenix_rebearth> okay i'm in
<phoenix_rebearth> :-D
<phoenix_rebearth> is this the ubuntu motu helping hand
<directhex> spidey sense... tingling
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, define "helping hand". it's not a user support channel
<phoenix_rebearth> I 'm just searching info on what to do
<phoenix_rebearth> let me be more specific
<phoenix_rebearth> who can tell me what I have to know to grow towards being a developer
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, a software developer, or a packager? they're different roles, elbrit with frequent overlap
<directhex> albeit
<directhex> i can't type today
<phoenix_rebearth> so how to become a motu 'er and grow in to becoming a developer
<phoenix_rebearth> cold fingers
<hyperair> directhex: joker. either way, speaking of monitors, i've managed to blow away the 2048x2048 limit on my i965 gpu and am enjoying dual head now =p
<phoenix_rebearth> let me rephrase what I would like to know. Which howto's should I read before I can become a motu
<eMerzh> if someone want to comment my package..... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ... thanks a lot....
<phoenix_rebearth> now everybody went to slee
<phoenix_rebearth> p
<phoenix_rebearth> it looks like this isn't the right place to begin
<phoenix_rebearth> any suggestion on where to begin?
<broonie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted#
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, ^^
<phoenix_rebearth> broonie: thx but I've read that one
<phoenix_rebearth> directhex ^^?
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, there's no up arrow character on irc...
<phoenix_rebearth> k
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, so you want some real-world stuff to do, i.e. as training?
<phoenix_rebearth> I want to know how it all works and in the mean while being usefull
<phoenix_rebearth> I am computer technician in a "microsoft"(don't shoot me) support shop and it's really boring clicking next next finish
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, being a MOTU is a very varied role - you need to know how to package things (even things you don't have much experience with), fix bugs, apply patches, deal with collaboration (e.g. dealing with upstream or debian), and occasionally fix those bugs yourself
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, you don't need to be an actual motu to do all of those - and generally you'd need to show yourself as proficient in all of them before motuness would be given, through general contributions
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, so i'd pick one area to start on, and that'll probably leak in both directions onto other topics
<RainCT> directhex: there's an arrow - â   *g*
<phoenix_rebearth> directhex: that 's the reason why I came in the room to ask whether people had an opinion (besides reading man pages and stuff) about howto's
 * directhex feeds RainCT ISO-8859-15
<joaopinto> phoenix_rebearth, the wiki :) ?
<phoenix_rebearth> On it
<phoenix_rebearth> man pages too
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, try something real-world. an easy (maybe!) one is an upstream update
 * RainCT explains to directhex that there's something called UTF-8 ;)
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, pick a package you use, see whether there's a newer upstream version, and if there is, make the package be newer!
 * directhex feeds RainCT KOI-8 as desert
<phoenix_rebearth> that seems to be a good start
<verwilst> you can use your own PPA for that even ;)
<directhex> yeah, like verwilst said, you have your own test repository on your launchpad account
<broonie> phoenix_rebearth: In general, it's easier to find documentation once you've got an idea of the sort of thing you want to do.
 * RainCT suffers a painfull death :D
<directhex> i could do with dashing young adventurer... erm... packagers, for example
<directhex> for the mono 2.0 transition. it's a big job
<phoenix_rebearth> directhex: I'll read something more about it, at least I now see something realistic in front of me instead of learning hello world stuff
 * jdong kicks apache for sending Application/x-msvideo for .m4v files
<directhex> jdong, m4crosovt!
<jdong> :D
<jdong> my iPod isn't amused by the MIME type :)
<jdong> refuses to stream
<directhex> jdong, fix your ipod to be less picky
<jdong> directhex: I guess I *COULD* hack safari to be a bit less picky about MIME types...
<jdong> though I'm not sure I want it showing embedded video for every application/x-msvideo
<jdong> what does Apache use to guess MIME types? is there some hardcoded lookup table or does it use something like file?
<jdong> I'm guessing it guesses by extension.
<directhex> i think by extension, from a lookup file
<jdong> hmm, would you consider it a bug for it to call .m4v x-msvideo rather than video/mp4?
<directhex> hm, apparently it uses /etc/mime.types
<jdong> well m4v isn't defined at all in that file
<jdong> audio/mpeg              mpga mpega mp2 mp3 m4a
<jdong> actually it's a bit wrong.
<jdong> IETF says m4a -> audio/mp4, m4v -> video/mp4
<nhandler> RainCT: ping
<RainCT> nhandler: yes?
<nhandler> RainCT: Did you push some new changes to REVU in the last few days? The date of the next REVU Day is no longer being displayed
<nhandler> RainCT: Nevermind, it just appeared
<RainCT> nhandler: No. wiki.ubuntu.com might have been unavailable when it last tried
<pochu> argh
<pochu> we still have wxwidgets2.4 in jaunty!
<pochu> weren't there plans to remove it from the archive in the hardy cycle? :)
<slytherin> pochu: make the plan now. :-)
<pochu> found it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/wx2.4Migration
<slytherin> From where do I download packages in Debian new queue?
<Laney> james_w: How did you know to look on debian-multimedia for anyevent?
<jdong> anyone around who uses a wl.ko broadcom wireless card?
<pochu> slytherin: I don't think you can
<jdong> just want confirmation if ad-hoc is supposed to work or not.
<slytherin> pochu: :-(
<hyperair> jdong: i've never gotten adhoc working on an intel
<directhex> hm, slytherin escaped
<directhex> the shock of hearing that NEW is a walled garden literally knocked him off the internet
<jdong> hyperair: I've goten it working okay on Intel
<jdong> actually on iwl3945 associating and disassociating a client too much time locks up the card
<jdong> microcode error
<jdong> so I take that back :)
<jdong> *angrily boots back into OS X*
<hyperair> lol
<hyperair> jdong: usually it disconnects because there isn't a dhcp server and nm's avahi integration seems a little flaky, so it seems to get a zeroconf address, then (probably avahi doesn't notify nm? or nm didn't realize that avahi managed to get an address?) nm times out and cuts the connection
<RainCT> sebner: GNOME is working now, btw. Compiz hung because of a bug in Intel's driver, uninstalling compiz "fixed" the login problem
<sebner> RainCT: heh, intel with the "open" driver. tsss
<RainCT> and to whoever told me about it, the fast-user-switch-applet does indeed show a notification with a button to replace the quit button with it
<RainCT> sebner: Yeah, that's sad :(. Compiz is using some new feature now (to let the graphics card work instead of the CPU) and this doesn't work correct with old Intel chipsets (because of the driver) :(
 * sebner disabled compiz :P
<RainCT> Yeah, but it's enabled by default.. I'll ask for my card to be blacklisted (that's what they've done with several other models)
<directhex> mono transition phase 1 is almost done
<phoenix_rebearth> do packagers in ubuntu also use dpkg?
<james_w> Laney: Marillat's name in the changelog
<jmarsden> phoenix_rebearth: Yes.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Laney> Oh :(
<phoenix_rebearth> what's the way to download dpkg-dev
<phoenix_rebearth> I can't seem to get it right
<jmarsden> phoenix_rebearth: Doesn't it get pulled in with   sudo apt-get install build-essential  ?
<phoenix_rebearth> build essential: that 's what I needed i think
<phoenix_rebearth> but problem was the install part
<jmarsden> phoenix_rebearth: See the "Packaging Tools" section of the Guide I just pointed you to :-)
<phoenix_rebearth> I always forget words in the commands
<phoenix_rebearth> thx alot
<jmarsden> No problem.
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, a general shift in mindset should eventually land, and that helps a lot
<nixternal> argh...getting my sid pbuilder up and running is a pita
<directhex> phoenix_rebearth, just basic things help in terms of, well, instincts
<directhex> nixternal, whyso?
<nixternal> bombing out on configuring base packages
 * nixternal tries again
<Laney> didrocks! I see you updated goocanvas in Intrepid to 0.12. Do you have any plans to get that back into Debian?
<Laney> didrocks: (can you ping the maintainer pretty please? It blocks me getting goocanvasmm in)
<phoenix_rebearth> basically I installed the right stuff, it'll eventually come back to me
<jdong> sigh, stupid handbrake.
 * jdong craps out due to thanksgiving laziness and just lets it go wget all the libs it wants
<Laney> james_w: Can we sync from debian-multimedia?
<james_w> Laney: I think so, an archive admin would know for sure
<directhex> Laney, do you want to? marillat's QA can be... lacking :/
<nixternal> ahh, stupid pbuilder docs on the wiki are wrong
<jdong> you don't want to sync from debian-multimedia without a good review first :)
<directhex> jdong, agreed!
<directhex> i think about 5 lines of my moonlight debian/control are marillat's. and debian/compat
<jdong> and if you find anything "wrong" policy-wise with marillat packages, in my experience he's more than grateful for patches
<Laney> Well I didn't look at it thoroughly, as I usually trust DDs... but it does have a weird version number
<directhex> Laney, that's normal for a marillat package, but srsly, do a packaging review
<directhex> Laney, REVU it!
<Laney> bah
<hyperair> crimsun: regarding bug 202089, how about a sru for that? seems like a lot of people are affected.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202089 in pulseaudio "Pulseaudio is blocking normal sound after resume" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202089
<didrocks> Laney: I updated it becuase it was on the Â« GNOME Â» packages, which have a permanent FFe
<didrocks> Laney: from what I understood, these kind of work does not interest Debian (because those packages are not synced). But I may be wrongâ¦
<Laney> didrocks: Cool, I'm glad you did!
<Laney> Hm? The package was in sync before the 0.12 update
<didrocks> So, I am wrong :)
<didrocks> ok, I will feed a bug in Debian BTS
<Laney> Nice one
<Laney> Maybe you could mention that it blocks goocanvasmm being uploaded ;)
<didrocks> Laney: in Debian or Ubuntu?
<Laney> Debian
<Laney> I want to get it in, but it depends on goocanvas >= 0.11
<didrocks> ok :) Do you want me to subscribe you to the bug?
<Laney> Please do
<didrocks> ok, I'm on it :)
<Laney> \o/
<didrocks> Laney: you didn't see it in debian NEW ?
<Laney> didrocks: No...
<Laney> is it?
<didrocks> didn't checked yet :)
<Laney> Not that I can see
<didrocks> you're right :)
<didrocks> (debian NEW has been updated, it seems pretty now)
<directhex> boo @ NEW
<Laney> Why are we booing at new?
<directhex> it introduces delays!
<Laney> there is that :(
 * directhex is waiting on something in NEW, will probably 0ubuntu1 it
<Laney> Is "This module is licensed under the same terms as Perl itself" alright for an upstream's COPYING? And no headers in any source files?
<didrocks> directhex: sure, I had to make that a numbered of times for intrepid :/
<directhex> Laney, not ideal :/
<Laney> directhex: Quite, but I rather suspect that it's been this way forever
<Laney> Besides this and the weird version number, I think that anyevent looks ok
<directhex> didrocks, i anticipate a painful number of at best syncs from experimental
<Laney> So let's get Lenny to release ;)
<didrocks> directhex: yes, that's an option :/
<directhex> Laney, YES!
<didrocks> Laney: bug opened and you are subscribed
<Laney> didrocks: Thanks a lot
<didrocks> Laney: you're welcome :)
<Laney> My mission is to get glom into Debian
 * Laney pokes huats ;)
 * didrocks find Laney mean to poke a huats like that :)
<huats> Laney: hey
<huats> sorry I am on a rush there
<Laney> huats: haha, I was just kidding
<huats> I ping you back after the diner :)
<Laney> don't worry about it
<huats> Laney: non non you are right
<didrocks> huats: you are lying, you even answered at phone earlier :p
<huats> anyway I'll tackle the uplload this week end...
 * Laney cuddles Banshee
<tuxcrafter> calc: ping
<tuxcrafter> calc: i saw that ubuntu ships nice looking icons for the desktop icons and mine icons of openoffice.org documents, how is the upstream process going so they become in debian sid?
<chrisccoulson> i'm currently packaging a new upstream version of transmission. the build-depends in the existing version have no version constraints, even though the upstream configure.ac specifies minimum versions of all the build dependencies. would it be a good idea to add them in?
<crimsun> do they differ significantly from what's available in hardy?
<chrisccoulson> only one of the build-depends has a version-bump. but the existing control file specifies no minimum versions at all
<chrisccoulson> i wasn't sure whether just to modify the control file and add them all in
<crimsun> right, but is the b-d's min version not satisfiable in hardy?
<chrisccoulson> i'll check quickly
<crimsun> if it is satisfiable, I'd not bother constraining the b-d
<pochu> chrisccoulson: I think you should add them
<pochu> otherwise the dpkg-checkbuilddeps will succeed, but the build will fail
<chrisccoulson> ok, i can do that no problem.
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> for the record, hardy would satisfy the build depends of the new version, but dapper would definately not
<crimsun> chrisccoulson: (make sure you do the usual "file in Debian BTS" rote)
<chrisccoulson> it's already been requested in debian. they won't update until after lenny is released though, so i thought i'd update it in ubuntu first. not sure if thats the correct way to do it though :/
<crimsun> sure, don't block on lenny (momentarily)
<chrisccoulson> no problem. it's quite a simple update. the patch set is minimal (just a single ubuntu patch to the desktop file, and that's all)
<crimsun> the reason I don't tend to version b-ds is because I don't support building on fragmented/hybrid distro releases (e.g., mixed woody/etch)
<crimsun> however, strictly speaking, it's proper to add the constraints
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wasn't sure really. i did the last transmission update, so i probably should have added them then really ;)
<directhex> damnit, i need an orig.tar.gz which is in NEW
<quentusrex> Hello all.
<quentusrex> How difficult is it to have an svn repo with source code and also a ubuntu deb repo?
<quentusrex> Are there any howto's or tutorials or wiki's that describe how to have a svn repo, and have a build system that will generate and update a deb repo?
<directhex> quentusrex, well........
<directhex> quentusrex, consider looking at the svn-buildpackage package
<quentusrex> directhex: are you familiar with voip?
<directhex> quentusrex, no. i hate telephony
<quentusrex> ok.
<jmarsden> quentusrex: for SVN server setup, it's a bit old but try: http://www.subversionary.org/howto/setting-up-a-subversion-server-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon-server
<quentusrex> I've been able to setup the server. I am concerned about hosting the *.deb package
<quentusrex> I want to maintain the package and support it. But I'm concerned about the difficulty.
<directhex> building an ftp archive is reasonably easy
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Not that hard surely... see http://mediakey.dk/~cc/howto-create-your-own-debian-or-ubuntu-package-repository/ for hints on setting up a debian style repository
<directhex> needs some config files, then the right incantations
<quentusrex> would there be support for this?
<jmarsden> Support... from Canonical?  Or from whom?
<quentusrex> general support from irc
<directhex> let me find my old packager scripts from pre-launchpad-ppa
<jmarsden> Probably... it depends on who you ask and how friendly they feel :-)
<directhex> aha, a 25-line script to build the required files from the archive, make package indexes, and make a nice clicky webpage from it
<quentusrex> :) thanks
<jmarsden> quentusrex: If you want to avoid this, just get your package accepted into Debian or Ubuntu, then you donto need to maintain your own repository at all... this is by far the better way to go in general.
<directhex> short version:
<directhex> apt-ftparchive sources . > Sources
<directhex> apt-ftparchive packages . > Packages
<quentusrex> jmarsden: I think it'll be interesting when you hear what I'd like to do.
<laga> i used to use falcon ot build a repo. quite straight-forward
<RAOF> Yeah.  How's the autobuild integration going (if at all) in falcon?
<quentusrex> I think I'll be leading a group of people who are fed up with Voip on CentOS. And we'll be setting up an ubuntu based distro to run Voip servers.
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Maybe.  Too many people start their own repo instead of doing the work of making their packages good enough to be accepted into Universe, though... do you really need a separate distro variant?
<quentusrex> jmarsden: I think initially it'll be easier for us to host it ourselves. That way if we crash and burn, there won't be any harm.
<jmarsden> There's enough review that you're unlikely to harm Ubuntu by trying to get stuff into Universe :-)
<jmarsden> You will be creating an isolated island, instead of joining the existing community.  Make sure that is really what you want to do.
<quentusrex> We're going to aim towards enterprise voip servers, but also have packages with the ability to add 'bells and features' such as vtiger, etc.
<emet> directhex: do you think Mono 2.2 will make it into 9.04?
<quentusrex> jmarsden: initially while there isn't anything to offer the ubuntu community yes, an island is better. Then once there is an initial release. Then we'll paddle the island over to the mainland.
<jmarsden> OK, it's your call.
<quentusrex> I don't see a better way to start this than on our own.
<quentusrex> because this will be more like Mythbuntu than anything else I've seen.
<quentusrex> A distro wrapped around custom packages.
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Decide on one aplication you would liek to see that is VOIP related.  Package it, get it into Universe.  Repate for other packages...
<jmarsden> s/Repate/Repeat/
<jmarsden> That way even if you only ever get a few packages done, not a full new distro, your work is useful to the whole community.
<quentusrex> What about getting our own package released, then get it into the universe repo.
<jmarsden> Define "released".  Put it in your PPA on LP until it is in Universe... sure.
<jmarsden> You don't need your own repo infrastructure to do that.
<quentusrex> I'll check it out
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Good ... thanks for listening :)
<directhex> emet, *MAYBE*, but it's 101% conditional on finishing the packaging transition ASAP
<directhex> emet, the longer the transition takes, the lower the chance of 2.2
<directhex> emet, upstream have provided us with 2.2 preview tarballs already, but we just don't have time to look at them
<emet> okay
<emet> 2.2 has a redesigned VM I think
<directhex> linear IL
<emet> faster Mono applications
<directhex> yes
<RAOF> SMID from C#.
<directhex> that too
<directhex> emet, mono 2.0.1 for us produces over 100 (!) binary packages. that number goes up with 2.2 (!). that all needs auditing and bug checking
<directhex> emet, and "mono 2.2" is 10 source packages, not just mono
<quentusrex> alright I'm ubuntero
<emet> holy crap
<directhex> emet, gluezilla, libgdiplus, mono-basic, those are the easy ones. but like i said, by a WIDE margin, the blocker on mono 2.2 is finishing the 2.0 packaging transition
<ajmitch> directhex: I thought you'd be done by now :)
<directhex> ajmitch, phase 1 needs 1 more package (i still need an orig.tar.gz from NEW, or more likely, from meebey's /home
<directhex> ajmitch, and working on the transition for OOo took a bloody long time
<quentusrex> for ppa, how do I get it away from jaunty and towards Hardy????
<quentusrex> I only want the packages on LTS releases... atleast initially...
<directhex> quentusrex, check your debian/changelog's target release
<quentusrex> directhex: I don't see that...
<directhex> quentusrex, what's the very first line of your changelog?
<sebner> quentusrex: replace "jaunty" with "hardy"
<directhex> head -1 debian/changelog
<directhex> sebner, you gave it away!
<quentusrex> I'm saying for the launchpad.net ppa. the repo they gave me says jaunty...
<sebner> directhex: it's late :P
<quentusrex> jaunty main
<quentusrex> If my changelog says hardy, will that be detected?
<directhex> quentusrex, yes!
<quentusrex> ok...
<quentusrex> So, now is there an svn management system on launch pad?
<sebner> quentusrex: bazaar?
<directhex> you're meant to use bzr!
<jmarsden> bzr is the way more and more Ubuntu projects are going...
<quentusrex> :( ....
<quentusrex> learning another repo? I just moved from cvs to svn...
<jmarsden> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrContributorHowto
<jmarsden> Or host your own SVN repo and upload stuff into your PPA from that.  SOmeone was working on a autoppa tool for such things, I think...
<quentusrex> that would be awesome.
<quentusrex> how to add a new project to launchpad?
<RainCT> quentusrex: https://launchpad.net/projects
<RainCT> somewhere there on the right there should be a "new project" button, iirc
<emet> bzr is really easy
<RainCT> i'm off, good night
<emet> bye
<jmarsden> quentusrex: https://launchpad.net/projects/+new-guided
<eMerzh> Someone has time to review my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ?... thanks :D
<quentusrex> Alright, if the project is hosted at launchpad, will it create the dep?
<quentusrex> or will I have to create the dep, and upload it?
<popey> hi. I am looking for a document that outlines the recommended naming convention for brand new ubuntu packages
<Hobbsee> as in, versioning?
<popey> just the file name - for a proprietary app that wont be in a repo
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Packaging%20From%20Scratch looks good
<popey> is that definitive
<azeem> if it's not in the repo, it doesn't matter that much
<popey> yeah, he's trying to do the "right thing" though
<popey> i think they want some level of acceptance by the community - it being proprietary
<popey> and they want to make sure they do it right from the get-go
<james_w> there are conventions for certain packages, e.g. python, perl
<james_w> for a general application there aren't that many
<azeem> popey: yeah, what kind of package is it?
<james_w> not too short, not too long, not too generic would be the top three at a guess
<azeem> single package, library, python, perl, lisp, java etc.
<popey> I'm under nda so i cant really say much
<popey> its a single package
<azeem> then it's quite difficult to advise
<Laney> If you want definitive then there's the Ubuntu policy
<directhex> generally convention w/ single-package is to name it whatever upstream names it
<popey> he _is_ upstream :)
<popey> he's making a package for ubuntu, debian, suse, fedora etc
<RAOF> Does he have a name he's calling the software now?
<popey> it has a name yes
<RAOF> Why not use that as the package name, then?
<popey> i was thinging program_major.minor_arch.deb should be sufficient?
<azeem> eh
<azeem> that's not the package name
<RAOF> Ah.  You're conflating the package name with the filename of the .deb archive.
<popey> 23:39:46 < popey> just the file name - for a proprietary app that wont be in a repo
<azeem> "program" is the package name in the above example
<popey> i did say
<azeem> the rest is versioning stuff
<azeem> popey: the file name is defined, yes
<azeem> popey: if he has to make it up himself, he's doing something wrong
<popey> thanks for the help
<azeem> aha
<RAOF> The tools which build a binary package will automatically create a file named "...
<RAOF> Bah.
<ajmitch> too late
<azeem> RAOF: tell him in #ubuntu-devel ;)
<RAOF> Thank you, KDE, for s/PanelSvg/FrameSvg in libplasma.  I'm sure that's really useful.
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-28
<chrisccoulson> hi, whats the policy for handling "needs-packaging" requests for upstream projects that are basically dead?
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: That points towards the needs-packaging bug being "Invalid", but it's not absolute.
<RAOF> It depends a bit about the state of the project; an active upstream matters more for a complex project, or one with bugs.
<RAOF> If the request is for a package of something simple and mature, it might still be worth packaging.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wasn't sure really. i'm looking at bug 249751. the reporter seems desparate for someone to package it, but there hasn't been any activity upstream since 2005, and their forums are just full of spam
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249751 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] LVE - Linux Video Editor" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249751
<RAOF> That doesn't sound (a) simple or (b) mature :)
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't seem worth it really does it?
<ajmitch> chrisccoulson: you sort of want an upstream who's alive to fix bugs that come up
<ajmitch> unless you use & love the program enough to become the new defacto upstream
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i thought that would be the case. is anyone volunteering to maintain it? ;)
 * ajmitch runs away
<directhex> what's the programming language?
<directhex> hm. qt? nah, not my thing
<directhex> qt2, no less!
<Hobbsee> whoa!  qt2?
<ajmitch> that's a bit of a throwback
<Hobbsee> we've got qt3 and qt4.  I doubt we want qt2 as wlel!
<ajmitch> you could always update the app to qt4
 * directhex spams the mailing list
<chrisccoulson> i didn't even know there was a qt2 until just now
<chrisccoulson> lol
<Hobbsee> i knew there was, as i've seen a book in the library about it
<Hobbsee> which looked very old.
<directhex> never used glorious kde2?
<chrisccoulson> are you sure it wasn't in a museum?
<Hobbsee> chrisccoulson: well, our library probably is that too
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<azeem> was it written in latin?
<Hobbsee> no, english
 * ajmitch used to use kde back in those days
<directhex> hm. how old is xfce4? i know i used xfce4 when it was brand new, at the same time kde2 was the default WM on undergrad systems, and someone had compiled kde3 on an nfs share
<HoppingWombat> hello
<HoppingWombat> i have a question, on how i need to join MOTU
<HoppingWombat> what i need to do*
<HoppingWombat> sorry
<HoppingWombat> right now i am a ubuntero
<HoppingWombat> what about the mentoring/sponsoring?
<HoppingWombat> i need that, for starting, right?
<directhex> HoppingWombat, what kind of contributions have you made?
<HoppingWombat> i have answered questions ... i want to do bugs and package maintenance
<HoppingWombat> and eventually help develop ubuntu itself -- but i dont expect that for several years
<directhex> well, not to sound glib, but do it - pick a package that needs love (e.g. a package you use which needs an update), and give it love
<directhex> you don't need to be a MOTU to help in the way you describe - and infact you'll find the experience gained is a necessary entry requirement
<HoppingWombat> alright
<HoppingWombat> thanks :-)
<chrisccoulson> have you looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted ?
<HoppingWombat> i am looking at it now :-)
<directhex> or i could do with people to work on the mono 2 transition ;)
<chrisccoulson> directhex - what sort of work is left to do?
<chrisccoulson> i might be able to volunteer some time ;)
<directhex> chrisccoulson, sent an update to the mailing list, but i think it's waiting for moderation
<chrisccoulson> no problem. i'll have a look at that in the morning, and see if there is anything i can offer:)
<directhex> chrisccoulson, basically phase 1 is done - next is phase 2 (applications), where apps need to have their build-deps refreshed, and their build process told nicely to use a different compiler
<chrisccoulson> that sounds *reasonably* simple
<james_w> don't be sucked in! :-)
<james_w> but seriously, it's well documented, and most cases will be simple
<directhex> i have a nice friendly real-world example on the debian wiki
<directhex> because pkg-mono has a fever
<directhex> and the only cure is transitioned cowbell
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll have a look at it in the morning. i've got to go now as it's getting quite late here
<directhex> indeed. i need to make sammitches
<james_w> directhex: your mail doesn't mention 1.0 -> 2.0 Build-Dependencies, but the wiki does, why is that?
<directhex> ahm... probably because i'm a pillock
<james_w> directhex: how's http://paste.ubuntu.com/77583/ ?
<directhex> james_w, looks like i'd expect it to - but it's half 1 in the morning and i'm about to go to bed, so can't do any more in-depth cross-checking right now
<james_w> I'll work up the patch and send it to the list as requested
<james_w> I just wasn't exactly sure what success looked like
<james_w> there are some 1.0 dependencies, but there aren't 2.0 versions of the libraries to Build-Depend on apparently
<amikrop> How is this thing called, where you don't do a "make install" but another thing, that installs the software in a package format?
<amikrop> * in a debian package format
<amikrop> so, that the package manager is aware of the installed software
<amikrop> (and will remove it automatically if you want)
<amikrop> I was looking for checkinstall
<RAOF> Not here you weren't :)(
 * Hobbsee hopes he's not a mobile guy
<RAOF> As in: Ubuntu mobile?  Surely not.
<Hobbsee> i thought i recognised the nick
<Hobbsee> but not as a packager
<nixternal> I have an idea, since the package isn't in Ubuntu or Debian, why don't I just waste my time with checkinstall so only I can install it
<nixternal> must be a shitty app that nobody else wants
<nixternal> or uses
 * ajmitch detects a subtle hint of sarcasm
<nixternal> nah, I am getting ready to dput all of my checkinstall builds now
<ajmitch> awesome
<ajmitch> nixternal++
<nixternal> I am trying to get stupid pbuilder to build my damn sid setup using experimental in another mirror
<nixternal> hell, pbuilder won't even setup sid correctly yet
<ajmitch> it won't?
<nixternal> nope
 * ajmitch didn't have any problems with it recently
<ajmitch> but that was a few weeks ago
<nixternal> I just went through my .pbuilderrc to find mistakes and didn't find any
<nixternal> and boom, it bombed out
<ajmitch> your computer exploded?
 * nixternal kicks sid in the pants
<ajmitch> beating up on kids isn't nice
<ajmitch> even if he does break all your toys
<nixternal> W: http://http.us.debian.org/debian/dists/sid/main/binary-i386/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
<nixternal> yay \o/
<amikrop> Hello. I have this URL: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gemrb What files I need from there, in order to build a binary package?
<nixternal> amikrop: how about you just ask in one channel isntead of hopping aroudn the other dev channels asking the same question
<Hobbsee> <already answered in #ubuntu-devel>
<nixternal> plus, I highly doubt if anyone will answer a checkinstall question due to its unique evilness
<Hobbsee> that too
<Hobbsee> well, you can't use checkinstall to build a package from a source like that, afaik.
<amikrop> nixternal: excuse me
<nixternal> did you burp? fart?
<amikrop> nixternal: cross-post
<nixternal> oh :)
<amikrop> ;)
<nixternal> nobody has ever said excuse me on irc before...thought there was a textual burp or wind breakage there
<amikrop> :P
<nixternal> seems my sid mirror I chose was boogered...we shall see how this goes
<NCommander> hey nixternal
<nixternal> wasabi
<nixternal> DAMNIT!@)!@*)!*@)!*
<NCommander> o_o;
<nixternal> W: Failure while configuring base packages.
<NCommander> WTF are you trying to do nixternal ?
<nixternal> build my sid pbuildd
<NCommander> I had no issues doing so
<NCommander> I can send you my basetgz
<nixternal> I think my connection might be choking or the mirror is choking....running it again to see where it dies this time
<nixternal> last time it couldn't download libc I think
<NCommander> nixternal, try ftp.us.debian.org
<nixternal> using that one now
<nixternal> http.us.debian.org was booged
<nixternal> busted Packages.bz2
<nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu.com/77595/
<nixternal> tell me, why would .pbuilderrc have references to "unstable" "testing" and "stable" when there aren't any debootstrap scripts for them under /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/
<nixternal> I remove the references to unstable, testing, and stable, and just have sid, lenny, and etch all works well
<nixternal> kind of...the sid pbuildd will not build
<nixternal> I comment out the case) and everything debian wise seems to work
<jmarsden> nixternal: The example one at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto changes unstable/testing/stable into sid/lenny/etch for you... so that's just a convenience, I think?
<nixternal> jmarsden: well the one that "was" on the wiki is the same as you see there, or was the same and it is the one that breaks
<jmarsden> OK.  I hacked it up so it only knows about Ubuntu for my own purposes, have not yet needed/wanted/tried to set up a Debian pbuilder... I can try and see if it breaks for me too...
<nixternal> heh, my sid stuff seems to have worked
<nixternal> it must have been a mirror hiccup
<jmarsden> OK... if you want to see if mine works for you, it's at http://paste.ubuntu.com/77596/
<AnAnt> superm1: Hello ?
<AnAnt> anyone knows if superm1 is in vacation or so ?
<TheMuso> AnAnt: I'd say he is.
<lidaobing> today is REVU day?
<nixternal> yay \o/
<nixternal> back to uploading packages to Debian...man it is so fun
<RAOF> When I'm fakesyncing a package from pkg-cli-apps svn in Debian, should I merge in the old Ubuntu changelogs?
<slytherin> Does anyone know any good bugzilla GUI?
<nixternal> slytherin: I use kbugbuster in KDE..it isn't to shabby, but it is far from great
<nixternal> RAOF: iirc in the past, the old Ubuntu changelogs were tossed
<nixternal> not 100% sure if that is still the case though
<dholbach> good morning
<nixternal> mornin' dholbach \o/
<dholbach> hi nixternal
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> slytherin: congratulations!
<iulian> Congrats slytherin :-)
<directhex> what's slytherin done?
<BugMaN> directhex: become MOTU
<directhex> oh. yay!
<pochu> slytherin: congrats!
<geser> slytherin: congrats
<slytherin> geser: dholbach: iulian: pochu: Thanks. I came to know from you all before I even read the mail. :-)
<Koon> congratulations to slytherin, the Java packaging machine !
<slytherin> Koon: Thanks. :-)
<slytherin> Koon: We have great work ahead. :-)
<Koon> slytherin: with great power comes... more work :)
<slytherin> he he
<Koon> slytherin: The project for tools helping in maven packaging is in https://launchpad.net/maven-packaging-support
<Koon> slytherin: ludovicc, the author, applied for Java packaging
<Koon> he intends to take on the missing library packaging, you might be able to help him on that ;)
<slytherin> Koon: Sure. Have you already talked to him to add this in team ppa?
<Koon> (I mean he applied for the ubuntu-java LP team)
<Koon> yes, that's why he applied to the team, not approved yet
<Koon> slytherin: are you online around 2200-0000 UTC ? That's apparently when ludovicc works on that.
<slytherin> Koon: I will be in deep sleep, travelling in a bus towards my home. :-)
<Koon> sweet dreams then :)
<Koon> Then I'll try to sync with him by phone one of those nights.
<slytherin> Koon: I will try to put the work he has done in PPA till he gets approved.
<slytherin> Koon: And I will help him with packaging then.
<Koon> slytherin: cool, maybe wait a little before pulling the branch, he is refactoring the scope of the tool to avoid some dependencies
<slytherin> Koon: sure, I will do this mostly on weekend.
<Koon> basically separating what is needed at buid time and what is needed at packaging time
<slytherin> Koon: I will also go through the spec once more over weekend.
<eMerzh> feel free to celebrate your happy reviewDay by reviewing my package at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :D
<directhex> eMerzh, minor: your description on 02_desktop_file.dpatch is wrong
<eMerzh> directhex: oups....ok :)
<directhex> eMerzh, and it's nice (though by no means required) to use the new machine-readable Copyright format. but these are nitpicks. it seems like a straightforward package to me, no glaring issues
<eMerzh> directhex: did you have a link for doc about the new copyright format?
<directhex> hang on
<directhex> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat is gthe de-facto format
<eMerzh> directhex: ok thanks
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux , thanks
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: just a quick question, why debhelper 7?
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, no enough reason
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, which version is suggested
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: 5 is compatible almost for every supported release
<lidaobing> ok, I will try use debhelper 5 and rebuild
<lidaobing> any other suggestion?
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, any other suggestion?
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: I did a quick review, I'll make a more complex in some minutes
<directhex> i think DktrKranz has a point - dh7 rules, but you're not obviously using anything not found in 5 (i.e. none of the new easy bits of dh7 are in evidence)
<lidaobing> directhex, I got the idea, the dh_make suggests 7(maybe, I can't remember, :-) ), and I did not change it.
<lidaobing> directhex, DktrKranz , I use dh_auto_configure, maybe this does not exist in 5
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: indee
<DktrKranz> d
<directhex> just use 'dh' ;)
<lidaobing> directhex, what's the meaning of "just use 'dh' ;)"?
<directhex> lidaobing, the big improvement with dh7 is that you don't need to call dh_foo and dh_bar and dh_boz individually. "dh $@" does it all
<lidaobing> directhex, cool, I will try it
<directhex> lidaobing, http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mono/gluezilla/tags/2.0-1/debian/rules?op=file&rev=0&sc=0 is a DH7 rules file
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: if you replace dh_auto_configure with some ./configure magic, you're fine with older debhelper's
<DktrKranz> or you can move to dh7 for everything
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, I will try to use debhelper 5, so I can backport this package.
<james_w> congratulations slytherin
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, I have upload a new version of iptux: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=4127, please help check
<slytherin> james_w: Thanks. I read your post about changelog and that is something even I was thinking for long time. :-)
<james_w> I think a lot of people do.
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: checking
<james_w> we work on other peoples stuff a lot in Ubuntu, so it's extra important
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, thanks
<slytherin> james_w: also it is important when you can not figure out what changes in Debian version of a package while trying to do a merge. :-)
<directhex> looks like tuxcrafter disagreed!
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: why did you include LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" ?
<lidaobing> I copy it from dh_make
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, I copy it from dh_make
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: commented
<ianm_> anyone familiar with sysprof and how to install whatever is needed to see function names?
<ianm_> any sysprof users?
<directhex> blorp. i need to add a get-orig-source to a cdbs package
<AnAnt> james_w: regarding bug 298273, the answer is no, it seems that superm1 is in vacation or so (note that his last couple of emails are sent from a mobile device)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 298273 in sl-modem "Add DKMS support to sl-modem" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/298273
<james_w> AnAnt: click on the overview tab at the top of the page
<AnAnt> oh
<AnAnt> even rmadison says  that it's released
<AnAnt> who did that ?
<AnAnt> james_w: so the answer is yes then !
<AnAnt> why is the bug status NEW then ?
<chrisccoulson> because you didn't reference the bug number in the changelog
<AnAnt> silly me !
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<james_w> I saw that go past on -changes, and was then surprised when the bug was still open
<james_w> AnAnt: did you not get an "Accepted" mail?
<james_w> that would have a Signed-By line that would tell you
<AnAnt> james_w: nope, didn't get such thing
<quentusrex> What does this error mean: dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<quentusrex> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: dpkg-source -b pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22 gave error exit status 1
<quentusrex> I'm trying to build a source package.
<AnAnt> james_w: ok, I set the status to fix released
<james_w> AnAnt: if you look on the jaunty-changes mailing list you will be able to see it
<AnAnt> james_w: I see
<chrisccoulson> ping dholbach - i just had a look at your comments on bug 302672. i can't seem to recreate the build failure that you're seeing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 302672 in transmission "new transmission upstream version 1.40" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/302672
<ivoks> any idead how to debug why db_set is failing in postinst script?
<dholbach> chrisccoulson: hm, I had it in a jaunty amd64 pbuilder
<chrisccoulson> i've just tried it in jaunty amd64 and i386, and i can't get it to fail in either
<chrisccoulson> and i just tried uploading it my PPA, and it built there too :/
<chrisccoulson> strange!
<chrisccoulson> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20030188/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.transmission_1.40-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<directhex> the most epic piece of anti-mono-in-ubuntu-context hate i've ever seen, taken from the #boycottnovell irc channel logs: "[01:31] <Omar87> schestowitz: lol, ya know what? Even Nelson Mandela himself should protest of Ubuntu coming with Mono pre-installed and well-incorporated."
<james_w> chrisccoulson: libcurl-dev seems to be a virtual package, it shouldn't just Build-Depend on that.
<quentusrex> Any advice on this error: dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source ????
<chrisccoulson> james_w - i did wonder whether that might be an issue
<mgdm> directhex: yes, clearly, they have their perspectives and priorities correct
<james_w> chrisccoulson: if you want to build on a virtual package you should Build-Depend on "real-package-that-provides-virtual | virtual"
<directhex> mgdm, they wonder why their cause is not treated with respect
<james_w> chrisccoulson: I don't know why that would fail for one pbuilder and not another though
<chrisccoulson> i can do that. in fact, both of the packages that provide the virtual package come from the same source package anyway
<chrisccoulson> dholbach - i wasn't aware of the "uscan --download" trick for getting the new upstream source. thats a bit easier.  thanks!
<directhex> chrisccoulson, works great until you need to +dfsg a package
<chrisccoulson> i haven't had to come across that yet though:)
<bmm> I'm online for any comments on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=metalink , this contains a new version with better licensing and I've moved to CDBS.
<quentusrex> Does anyone know how to tell debuild that I'm building the orig file?
<quentusrex> ls
<directhex> have a native package version number?
<quentusrex> ?
<chrisccoulson> do you not just miss the bit after the "-" in the version number?
<quentusrex>  pbxbuntu-asterisk_1.4.22.orig.tar.gz
<quentusrex> that's the orig file..
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22 that's the directory I'm building it from...
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu-asterisk_1.4.22-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<quentusrex> did I get something wrong?
<quentusrex> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22/contrib/firmware/iax/iaxy.bin: binary file contents changed
<quentusrex> dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
<quentusrex> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: dpkg-source -b pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22 gave error exit status 1
<directhex> if you want to make a native package, your version number must be free from "-"
<quentusrex> That's the error it's failing at....
<quentusrex> so what do I need to change?
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu_asterisk_1.4.22?
<directhex> that's not the version number. the version number is set in the changelog
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu-asterisk (1.4.22-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
<quentusrex> changed to:pbxbuntu-asterisk (1.4.22-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
<quentusrex> oops.
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu-asterisk (1.4.22_0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low ???
<directhex> i don't think you quite understand the original problem, which is why the solution isn't helping you
<quentusrex> directhex: I think you're right.
<directhex> if you want to rebuild orig, then that means you will no longer have a diff.gz file - only orig and dsc
<quentusrex> I'm not sure if I need that... I'm trying to build the original file. It seems I have a .orig file.
<directhex> the usual option is removing all "non-native" markers from the version number, i.e. just "1.4.22". alternatively, erase your orig, and it'll be forced to regenerate it assuming it's a native package
<directhex> but making a new orig is the wrong thing to do in 99% of cases
<directhex> i.e. unless you need to +dfsg a package, don't do it
<quentusrex> I'm not sure what +dfsg a package means.
<quentusrex> I'm trying to build a new package from source. I'm not trying to 'patch' any existing package.
<quentusrex> And I think that's where I am confused.
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, thanks, I upload a new version just now.
<chrisccoulson> quentusrex - that's good, but if you're adding a debian/ folder in order to package it, then that is a diff from the original source
<quentusrex> chrisccoulson: ok. Then it sounds like I don't need to change anything with the orig file.
<chrisccoulson> if you don't want to maintain a diff, and you just want to package everything in to the orig.tar.gz, then the version number in your debian/changelog needs to be the same as the version of the upstream source (ie, no "-0ubuntu1" bit)
<chrisccoulson> but that's a bad idea
<quentusrex> But the problem I have is that when I try to build the source with 'debuild -S' it errors out with: dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of 'contrib/scripts/get_ilbc_source.sh' will not be represented in diff
<quentusrex> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22/contrib/firmware/iax/iaxy.bin: binary file contents changed
<chrisccoulson> the warning is nothing to worry about i don't think. the error is because you changed a binary file i assume (but i'm really not all that sure)
<quentusrex> but that's what the: dh_clean
<quentusrex>  dpkg-source -b pbxbuntu-asterisk-1.4.22
<quentusrex> dpkg-source: warning: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address
<quentusrex> That's what changes the binary file.
<quentusrex> the dpkg-source -b changes it...
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure really :/
<quentusrex> And I think the source for the software gives a default file, then when built the software overwrites with a custom binary file.
<lidaobing> please help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, thanks
<DktrKranz> lidaobing: I'll have another look when I come back home (in a couple of hours)
<lidaobing> DktrKranz, OK, thanks in advance. but I have to go to sleep in 1 hour(here is UTC+8). so please paste your comment, thanks again.
<quentusrex> chrisccoulson, directhex I found the problem. It seems I accidentally build the orig with no files in it.
<chrisccoulson> good stuff;)
<quentusrex> my fingers are crossed... This might just work...
<quentusrex> My development machine is ubuntu 8.10, and I'm building this for 8.04...
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package...i've just correct a tiny tiny error... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<ryanakca> RainCT: mind if I merge serpentine?
<RainCT> ryanakca: it's all yours
<ryanakca> RainCT: thanks
<RainCT> ryanakca: thank _you_ :)
<ryanakca> Should I keep the translation from rosetta in a merge? It's the same upstream version, so I'm guessing that since they're still valid, I can leave them?
<quentusrex> If I am building a package for ubuntu hardy, do I have to be running hardy on my system? or is there a way to build it?
<ryanakca> quentusrex: you build in a chroot, look for pbuilder on the wiki...
<quentusrex> I've got pbuilder...
<quentusrex> just don't know how to use it to build outside of my system.
<ryanakca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto ... so, if you're building it for hardy, you need to create a hardy pbuilder. If you're building for jaunty, create a jaunty one, etc.
<ryanakca> quentusrex: What do you have in your pbuilder chroot? If you're interested in having more than one, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#Multiple%20pbuilders
<quentusrex> ryanakca: dh_clean: Sorry, but 6 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.
<quentusrex> make: *** [clean] Error 1
<quentusrex> dpkg-buildpackage: failure: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
<quentusrex> just one pbuilder: hardy.
<quentusrex> but I did the debuild -S on a Ibex system.
<hyperair> ryanakca: you'll need intrepid for debian/compat level 7
<hyperair> both pbuilder and debuild -S
<ryanakca> hyperair: for keeping translations from rosetta? Or was that for quentusrex ?
<quentusrex> then how do I debuild -S on my intrepid system in such a way that a hardy system can install it?
<quentusrex> I created the source package with debuild -S on my intrepid system. But when I tried to install the package on my hardy system it gave me the debhelper error...
<quentusrex> How do I run debuild -S on my intrepid system so that it uses a debhelper 6 compatible build?
<hyperair> ryanakca: what?
<hyperair> ryanakca: and whoops, i meant to ping quentusrex
<ryanakca> :)
<hyperair> quentusrex: echo 6 > debian/compat
<hyperair> and drop the debhelper build requirement to >= 6
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> I was born in Petersburg, VA.
<quentusrex> lol'
<quentusrex> wrong window
<quentusrex> since I changed the subject. where are you all from?
<hyperair> ...that's one hell of a change
<hyperair> i'm malaysian
<cody-somerville> New Brunswick, Canada
<quentusrex> is New Brunswick east or west Canada?
<ryanakca> quentusrex: eastern
<quentusrex> I'm trying to get to know some of the other developers for Asterisk and telephony.
<quentusrex> cool.
<quentusrex> I moved from East Coast, USA to West. I'm in Seattle, WA now.
<hyperair> i'm uh.. still sitting around in malaysia
<quentusrex> hyperair: I'm ready the wikipedia article about malaysia... I've never been there...
<hyperair> reading you mean?
<quentusrex> yeah...
<hyperair> heheh
<quentusrex> Today isn't my best day for irc...
<hyperair> yes, that's usually the response i get. "malaysia? where's that?"
<quentusrex> The only thing I know about malaysia is where it is on a map, and that it got hit hard by that tsunami.
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> hard by the tsunami?
<hyperair> i'd say not
<quentusrex> no?
<hyperair> we got shielded from it mostly
<hyperair> sumatra got it worst
<hyperair> and that's part of indonesia
<hyperair> the huge island that's parallel to peninsular malaysia
<hyperair> west of it
<hyperair> the tsunami came from west of sumatra
<hyperair> whacked out the northern regions
<quentusrex> lucky for malaysia...
<hyperair> and some smaller waves came to northern malaysia
<hyperair> i hear penang got hit
<hyperair> but it was mild compared to acheh, sumatra
<hyperair> that one got whacked out completely i think ._.
<quentusrex> Living here in Seattle we're worried about a tsunami
<hyperair> you near to a beach or somethign?
 * ryanakca mumbles something about !ot
<quentusrex> lol
<RainCT> ryanakca: how is this not related to MOTU? :P
<ryanakca> RainCT: lol
<quentusrex> hyperair: check out the wikipedia article about the Puget Sound and then Seattle. we're right on the water...
<quentusrex> alright, back to MOTU.
<ryanakca> RainCT: Maybe you could answer my question then (since you added them), Should I keep the translation from rosetta in a merge? It's the same upstream version, so I'm guessing that since they're still valid, I can leave them?
<RainCT> ryanakca: Yes. And please forward them to Debian if I didn't do that (although I think I did :)).
<RainCT> uhm.. or better directly to upstream
<ryanakca> RainCT: *nod*
<quentusrex> Alright, if my package requires another of my packages.
<quentusrex> How do I do this?
<quentusrex> So, I'm building the packages with debuild -S
<quentusrex> and then with pbuilder I'm testing to make sure they build.
<quentusrex> But how do I require a second package of mine for the first package?
<hyperair> lol
<quentusrex>  pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy depends on pbxbuntu-zaptel; however:
<quentusrex>   Package pbxbuntu-zaptel is not installed.
<quentusrex> How do I have the pbxbuntu-zaptel installed in pbuilder so that I can install my pbxbuntu-asterisk?
<quentusrex> pbxbuntu-zaptel_1.4.12.1-1.dsc is the package that needs to be installed first.
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> i remember reading that in the man page somewhere
<laga> you can use the D70results hook
<hyperair> --extrapackages
<hyperair> eh? D70results? O_o
<quentusrex> this is what I have in the debian/control file of the pbxbuntu-asterisk package: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 6), autotools-dev, pbxbuntu-zaptel
<hyperair> quentusrex: --extrapackages bla.deb
<quentusrex> and if that package is still a source package and not a binary package yet?
<hyperair> then you need to build it first
<hyperair> pbuilder build bla.dsc
<quentusrex> ok, thanks.
<hyperair> pbuilder build --extrapackages bla.deb newblawhichdependsonoldbla.dsc
<hyperair> something like that, i think
<hyperair> i didn't test
<quentusrex> I'll test it.
<quentusrex> How do I require that the headers for linux kernel 2.6.27-7-generic are install in the pbuild?
<hyperair> linux-headers-generic
<hyperair> add that to your build-dep
<quentusrex> ok, I'll give that a try.
<quentusrex> is the kernel image different for server?
<jnw222> slighty
<jnw222> not seriously
<quentusrex> I'll see if it makes a difference.
<quentusrex> Why is the pbuilder package asking for the kernel headers for my development machine's kernel?
<quentusrex> rather than the pbuilder kernel headers?
<quentusrex> make[2]: Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/pbxbuntu-zaptel-1.4.12.1'
<quentusrex> echo "You do not appear to have the sources for the 2.6.27-7-generic kernel installed."
<quentusrex> that's for intrepid not for hardy...
<quentusrex> I'm running intrepid, and pbuilder hardy...
<quentusrex> :(
<quentusrex> hyperair: any idea?
<hyperair> hrmm
<hyperair> probably using uname -r
<hyperair> because pbuilder is just a chroot, but it's running on the intrepid kernel
<quentusrex> ok
<hyperair> strange
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> it seems that the program you're compiling seems to think you're compiling for the current kernel.
<hyperair> look for an option to compile for a different kernel
<hyperair> see if that works =\
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> hyperair: do you know where something like that might be?
<hyperair> depends on the build system of the program you're compling
<quentusrex> brb
<directhex> where can i find packages for EOL releases?
<quentusrex23> back...
<james_w> directhex: launchpad has the individual packages
<directhex> james_w, i found old-releases.ubuntu.com
<james_w> cool
<directhex> james_w, which answered what i wanted - i.e. which version of a package got into main
<quentusrex23> How can I get a list of the pbuilder distributions?
<quentusrex23> I'd like to make one for hardy server...
<quentusrex23> hyperair: I've found a fix to the problem I was having.
<quentusrex23> I'll just do the building in a virtual server... that's actually running hardy server...
<hyperair> quentusrex23: eh interesting workaround.
<quentusrex23> :)
<ryanakca> Is knowing the language a program is written in a requirement for packaging it?
<quentusrex23> ryanakca: I bet it couldn't hurt...
<directhex> ryanakca, no, but it can help if you need to fix problems
<directhex> ryanakca, strictly speaking it's not even a requirement for patching it if you're smart ;)
 * directhex has patched mythtv and rockbox before now, despite hating both their languages
<ryanakca> directhex: well, it's written in C* ... and I'm familiar with C++... so I'm sure I could figure it out...
<coppro> C*?
<directhex> C*?
 * directhex wonders if an acolyte has come before him
<ryanakca> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C*
<directhex> nope. that's just sick, then
 * directhex goes off somewhere to vomit
<directhex> oh lord thinking machines. it's a small world
<ryanakca> quentusrex23: ... you can have more than one pbuilder... as for the distributions... feisty, gutsy, hardy, intrepid, jaunty, sid, lenny, etc.
<ryanakca> quentusrex23: once again, look at the PbuilderHowto page on the wiki... everything you need to know is there, and if you want more, there's a link to the pbuilder manual at the bottom of the page...
<directhex> the builder config file on there rocks your socks
<quentusrex23> but it won't help for the zaptel part...
<quentusrex23> zaptel needs the correct kernel...
<quentusrex23> So I might as well boot up an actual test server...
<fabrice_sp> Hi! Can some have a look at dvdstyler, in revu? (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler). I fixed all what mok0 pointed out. Thanks
<quentusrex> ryanakca: do you know a way to trick the pbuilder into having the same kernel as 'uname -r'
<directhex> well... install the package in there? --login and --save-after-login are your friends
<ryanakca> quentusrex: ? Something compiled in a pbuilder has the same architecture as the host?
<quentusrex> but the problem is that the software is executing something like uname -r
<ryanakca> i.e. you can't compile for ppc on an i386?
<quentusrex> So it's getting the kernel info of my development machine.
<directhex> ryanakca, ish. lpia & i386 on amd64 accepted ;)
<quentusrex> not the pbuilder enviroment.
<ryanakca> directhex: :)
<ryanakca> quentusrex: during the build?
<quentusrex> yes, during the build.
<ryanakca> What are you trying to build?
<quentusrex> the asterisk zaptel module.
<quentusrex> it needs the kernel headers....
 * ryanakca has a feeling that this is probably over his head and should let someone more experienced help...
<quentusrex> I'd love it if someone would help. But the zaptel modules have been around for over a year, and they haven't been touched yet.
<ryanakca> quentusrex: you might have to ask ever hour or two for a while, but eventually someone will show up who can help :)
<quentusrex> ryanakca: what question should I be asking?
<coppro> how do you get an ssh server on your box again?
<quentusrex> apt-get install openssh-server
<coppro> ty
<ryanakca> quentusrex: try in #ubuntu-kernel ... they might be able to sort it all out :)
<quentusrex> forget pbuilder right now. How do I build the binary on my system?
<coppro> debuild?
<RainCT> quentusrex: I haven't read the conversation, but dpkg-buildpackage (or debuild)
<quentusrex> since pbuilder has the linux-headers-generic_2.6.24.16.18_i386.deb kernel, and my system has the 2.6.24-19 kernel.
<quentusrex> RainCT: thanks.
<quentusrex> I'm trying to build a piece of software that needs the kernel headers.
<quentusrex> the problem is that when I try to build it with pbuilder, it gets the specs for my host kernel, rather than the pbuilder kernel.
<ryanakca> Could someone wget ftp://eggy.student.utwente.nl/eggy/0.3/eggy-0.3.tar.gz and give me a hint as to how I'd format my copyright file? Some files are under the LGPL, others are under GPL-3, some are copyrighted by "A", others by "B and C", and yet others by "D" or "Y and A"... and some files were copyrighted in 1998, others 2001... Do I just stick all the authors under Copyright: ? Or do I have a different section for each license and then ...
<ryanakca> ... have the authors for those portions that have <x> license or ?
<james_w> year doesn't matter so much
<james_w> but yes, split it by license
<james_w> for each licence specify the files that are covered, and then list the copyright holders for those files, then the license
<ryanakca> james_w: thanks
<ryanakca> james_w: there's an icons/ directory filled with icons and a readme listing all copyright... can I reference users to an ICONS.copyright ?
<james_w> I don't think so
<james_w> I can't be sure though
<ryanakca> james_w: ok, thanks...
<eMerzh> somone to advocate my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman :p
<eMerzh> before the end of the revu day :D
<eMerzh> nobody :/
<DktrKranz> eMerzh, I'll have a look at it once I finished another package ;)
<eMerzh> Thanks a lot DktrKranz!
<DktrKranz> eMerzh, looking right now
<eMerzh> DktrKranz: thanks .. i'm listening :)
<quentusrex> If my package needs to have a group added, and set. Where should I put that in the package?
<Laney> directhex: Hey, can you take a look at this debdiff? I'm trying to do some mono transition stuff: http://pastebin.com/f7b3f14e8 - the only thing I'm not sure about is whether I need to rename the library to libndesk-dbus2.0-cil..?
<directhex> Laney, no, but I understand the confusion. I'll update the wiki to explain it
<Laney> Nice one.
<directhex> Laney, the number in the package name relates to the assembly version (or, more specifically, the original ABI version, for ABI compatibility)
<Laney> Your email talked about dependencies with 1.0-cil in the name which is what confused me
<directhex> Laney, it just so happens that CLi 1.0 libraries produced by the 'mono' source package have a version of 1.0 (well, 1.0.5000.0), and CLI 2.0 libraries have a version of 2.0 (2.0.0.0)
<Laney> got it
<directhex> Laney, so for packages produced by the 'mono' source package, changing the dependency to the 2.0 version is needed. for libraries which are not produced by 'mono' their dependencies will change, but their versions will not
<james_w> Laney, directhex: I'm around this evening, feel free to ping me for uploads
<Laney> james_w: Cool. I was wondering whether it would be better to try and get things into experimental and then sync though
<directhex> Laney, keep that patch to one side for now - we need to transition applications before we do libraries, otherwise we get the specific problem I just talked about (an app might still be 1.0, but one of its deps now needs 2.0)
<james_w> Laney: yeah, for mono stuff directhex might have a plan
<Laney> james_w: Unless you meant uploads more generally...!
<directhex> yeah, experimental wherever possible IMHO. collaboration is good!
<james_w> I was going to upload anything not maintained by the mono team, and just send patches for the stuff that is
<directhex> and you get that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from helping both distros!
<james_w> oh, I'd never upload anything that wasn't forwarded, but I know you two will do the right thing, so I'm happy to be on hand for quick uploads tonight
<directhex> can you do syncs as well, or just direct universe uploads?
<Laney> directhex: Ah, I was looking at muine which led me to this one. I'll have a look at that first then
<Laney> directhex: What's c-sharp-2.0-compiler? Is it needed?
<james_w> directhex: MOTUs can't directly sync yet, but I can certainly ACK them
<directhex> Laney, no, it's a hangover from when GNU's .net stack was possibly going to not suck
 * Laney nods
<Laney> OK, so: transition applications first, change dependencies which are built by 'mono'
<directhex> Laney, excellent. start with apps (we would love it if some brave soul came and took over muine actually), and wherever possible see whether you can get away with the unintrusive debian/rules change rather than needing to muck about with patching makefiles (if configure.in is doing an AC_PROG_PATH for MCS or GMCS or CSC or something, you can force a value for it on the configure command line - but some apps ignore your settings)
<directhex> you can ask iulian about apps ignoring carefully laid out ./configure hacks :)
<directhex> let me find an example of an app i transitioned earlier today...
<directhex> motherf..... did i forget to svn ci?
<james_w> directhex: is csc a debian thing?
<directhex> james_w, yes, it is. think of it as 'gcc' compared to upstream's 'gcc-3.4'
<james_w> ok
 * Laney tests muine
<directhex> and it serves the same purpose as 'gcc'
<james_w> I was wondering why you prefered the MCS=csc thing instead of my carefully crafted m4 changes :-)
<directhex> aha, here we are, this is a complete transition patch for podsleuth (a utility used by banshee for parsing ipods): http://paste.debian.net/22471/
<directhex> james_w, basically because upstream changes to the autofoo files require pain compared to simple ./confgure hacks, e.g. if they change it :)
<quentusrex> If my package needs to have a group added, and set. Where should I put that in the package?
<Laney> checking for gmcs... /usr/bin/csc
<Laney> muhahahah!
<directhex> Laney, :)
<james_w> I understand, I thought my patch would be going upstream though :-)
<Laney> wait, ftbfs
 * Laney weeps
<directhex> Laney, now, check the build log to make sure it's really using it
<directhex> Laney, hm. build log? let's see the failure
<DktrKranz> eMerzh, commented
<Laney> I was scrolled up reading the configure output and didn't see the pain below
<Laney> directhex: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/77859/
<Laney> is a snippet
<eMerzh> DktrKranz: thanks a lot! go back workin on it :)
<directhex> hrm..... that looks like an actual bug in the code
<directhex> possibly even in the wsdl it's parsing
<DktrKranz> eMerzh, please note I'm not a KDE packager, I just checked license stuff, but otherwise looks good
<DktrKranz> anyway, please have some KDE guy to review it
 * DktrKranz reboots
<eMerzh> DktrKranz: ok....no pbm ... but i'll check that :)
<directhex> Laney, can you send me your diff? i'd like to investigate
<Laney> directhex: http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/muine.debdiff
<Laney> I'll test doing an upstream update
<directhex> i was thinking it, but didn't want to seem needy ;)
<Laney> nah, same failure
<directhex> aHA
<directhex> which wsdl2
<directhex> gah
<directhex> Laney, okay, good news is, it's not your fault - it's upstream's
<directhex> mono or muine, depending on how charitable you're feeling
<Laney> directhex: Enlighten me!
<directhex> 'wsdl' is a utility to generate c# source from a web services description manifest (muine uses amazon for album art). in mono 2.0, upstream changes the 'wsdl' binary to be a symlink to 'wsdl2', the CLI 2.0 version (and added in wsdl1for old things). it seems wsdl2 fails on the ./src/AmazonSearchService.wsdl file in muine
<directhex> directhex@mortos:/tmp/muine-0.8.10$ wsdl ./src/AmazonSearchService.wsdl 2>&1 >/dev/null || echo "Hellfire and damnation, that's it for me"
<directhex> directhex@mortos:/tmp/muine-0.8.10$ wsdl2 ./src/AmazonSearchService.wsdl 2>&1 >/dev/null || echo "Hellfire and damnation, that's it for me"
<directhex> Hellfire and damnation, that's it for me
<directhex> (on intrepid, i.e. using mono 1.9.1)
<Laney> Did wsdl1 go away?
<directhex> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=434892
<ubottu> bugzilla.novell.com bug 434892 in tools "wsdl crashes with muine's amazon web service" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<directhex> bleh, mono patch :|
<Laney> Heh, it's a pretty trivial change too :(
<directhex> Laney, i'll commit it to our mono package right away - meebey's away today, but i'll try and molest him tomorrow until he uploads a 2.0.1-2 we can sync
<directhex> Laney, syncing mono! the dream is here!
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> Awesome work btw - I've had trouble just getting darcs to be in sync... :(
<Laney> let me know when the sync lands and I'll get back on muine
<Laney> or when mono lands in Debian, guess that'll do
 * Laney looks at gtwitter
<james_w> Laney: apologies for not syncing darcs
<Laney> james_w: Not your fault!
<Laney> I should have got in there sooner
<Laney> I had a quiet period
<Laney> lo RainCT, RAOF
<RainCT> hi Laney :)
<RAOF> Yo.
 * james_w hugs libtool
 * RAOF wonders whyever for.
<james_w> for causing 75% of the i386 build failures in jaunty
<RAOF> Ah.  Sarcasm.
<RAOF> Or, alternatively, hugging so the back is exposed to the knife.
<directhex> laney@ubuntu.com ?
<Laney> directhex: right
<Laney> but why? :O
<directhex> for debian/changelog!
 * Laney trembles
<Laney> What did I change? heh
<directhex> you helped!
<Laney> Which changelog I mean? mono?
<directhex> <CIA-7> debian-pkg-mono: directhex-guest * r3859 /mono/trunk/debian/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix for Muine FTBFS (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=434892)
<ubottu> bugzilla.novell.com bug 434892 in tools "wsdl crashes with muine's amazon web service" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
 * Laney rocks out
<Laney> directhex: This is bad in a build log right? "... gmcs -noconfig -codepage:utf8 -unsafe ..." (when configure detects csc)
<directhex> ......... sigh, yes :/
<Laney> bah
<Laney> nothing is ever easy!
<directhex> nothing simple ever is
<directhex> iulian is your man for that kind of patch
<directhex> this isn't muine we're talking avbout it is?
<Laney> no, gtwitter
<Laney> I see ASSEMBLY_COMPILER_COMMAND=gmcs in gtwitter/Makefile.am
<directhex> Laney, okay, that's... it happened with 'giver'
<eMerzh> directhex: My package was just updated with corect copyright in the new format like asked :) ... http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<directhex> Laney, basically you need to replace 'gmcs' with $(MCS) or whatever the AC_PROG_PATH used by configure.in is, then re-jiggle the build-deps and debian/rules to run autoreconf every now & again
<directhex> Laney, let me find the wsvn page for giver
 * Laney head in hands
<RainCT> I'm off, good night
<directhex> Laney, nothing simple is ever easy
<RainCT> and tomorrow.. intrepid release party \o/
<directhex> ciao RainCT
<james_w> night RainCT
<directhex> RainCT, gotta do your mono 2 transition or you're not allowed to party!
<eMerzh> but right now....sleeeeping :) Good night every body :)
<RainCT> directhex: heh
<RainCT> I can't, my sponsor isn't online *g*
<directhex> Laney, okay, here we are, the "easy" part (patching Makefile.am) should look a lot like this: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/trunk/debian/patches/02_gmcs-variable.dpatch?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<directhex> Laney, the hard part (autoreconf integration in debian/rules) could look like this: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-cli-apps/packages/giver/trunk/debian/rules?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
<directhex> but hanska in #debian-mono is a whizz with that kind of thing, so i can make him do it
<Laney> Let me take a quick look
 * Laney hops into that channel
<directhex> (on oftc)
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-29
<Elbrus> if a bug in a build depend that causes a FTBFS is fixed, how is a retry for building triggered? (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/lazarus/0.9.26-2)
<Elbrus> just by cron? new upload? manual triggering?
<Laney> Elbrus: MOTUs or core-devs can retry builds, depending on the component
<james_w> hello Elbrus
<james_w> Elbrus: when fpc is built and published everywhere I will retry that
<Elbrus> james_w: ok, thanks
<Elbrus> Laney: thanks for the explanation, I expected so much.
<Elbrus> james_w: could you also retry building winff after lazarus is built?
<james_w> Elbrus: sure
<Elbrus> james_w: thanks, that's my first packaging effort in debian. Would really like to see it work in Ubuntu (although I will propose some Ubuntu related changes after it builds)
<serialorder> hi i was going to merge drscheme but the package is a dummy package (my terminology) all it does is install plt-scheme
<crimsun> serialorder: ok, do you have a more specific question?
<serialorder> i was thinking that rather than merging this it would make more sense to modify plt-scheme and add a Provides: drscheme rather than actually keeping this package
<james_w> hi serialorder. a dummy packages is slightly different to a Provides: so it might be that way for a reason
<crimsun> serialorder: I think you'd want a transitional bin:drscheme package generated from src:plt-scheme that provides an upgrade path
<james_w> One is that it is possible to Build-Depend on a dummy package. The other is that it allows you to transition users from one to the other
<james_w> as crimsun says though, it doesn't have to be a whole separate source packge
<james_w> diverging from Debian on this might be more effort than it is worth though
<serialorder> ok
<serialorder> thought I would ask since literally all this package has is a debian directory
<serialorder> would someone mind taking a look at this bug to verify if what I suggest makes sense or not
<serialorder> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/imagemagick/+bug/301618
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 301618 in imagemagick "imagemagick merged from Debian experimental has broken packaging" [High,Triaged]
<serialorder> it probably doesn't though =(
<ScottK-laptop> serialorder: I think that'd be one aspect of it, but also every package the build-dep on the old -dev package would have to be changed to build-dep on the appropriate new package.
<ScottK-laptop> So I'd say it makes sense, but is not complete.
<serialorder> so there is no way to make it so that it wouldn't break the other packages
<serialorder> that makes sense
<serialorder> man that sucks
<quentusrex> anyone know how to make my software copy itself to a directory on deb install?
<jdong> what a long, long, painful, and excruciating task I am undertaking :)
<jdong> making an initial attempt at documenting debian/copyright if using bundled media stack from HandBrake
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Has someone time to review dvdstyler (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dvdstyler)? Thanks in advance!
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: I see you just uploaded uiflite.
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: I hadn't noticed that until after I gave it a review.
<DktrKranz> ScottK-laptop, yes. just now
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Since the packaging is under the GPL, debian/copyright needs to point to GPL.
<ScottK-laptop> I was about to comment to that effect when I saw your comment.
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Would you please fix that and upload and -0ubuntu2?
<DktrKranz> I added it before upload
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Excellent.
<ScottK-laptop> Nevermind then.
 * DktrKranz checks
 * ScottK-laptop looks at iptux
<DktrKranz> ScottK-laptop, no. I noticed it but I forgot to actually put it. I'll reupload it with the fixed debian/copyright (no need to do -0ubuntu2, IIRC it's legal to have two NEW packages with the same versioning, given that the former is rejected properly)
<ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Great.  I've seen the wrong one get rejected before.  I think it's safer to make it ubuntu2, but up to you.
<jdong> "HandBrake also includes the ffmpeg project. It is under a metric fsckton of licenses. Go RTFM to figure out the authors and licensing terms"
<jdong> ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
<ryanakca> If a program doesn't link to libfoo, does libfoo-dev need to be in build-depends?
<james_w> ryanakca: it shouldn't
<ryanakca> james_w: *nod*, thanks
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee, StevenK, I just reuploaded uiflite 2.2.1-0ubuntu1 to Jaunty NEW, mind rejecting the older one? Thanks.
<james_w> has anyone seen http://translate.sourceforge.net/doc/api/ packaged anywhere?
<willwill> Hello, i'm moving http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple to cdbs
<willwill> but the build always failed because the options from makefile.mk is not complete
<willwill> ok, I found the solution. please review my package on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple
<jdong> ha VICTORY, pwned the handbrake auto-fetcher.
<jdong> at the same time, I award myself the nastiest repack of the year award.
<Hobbsee> (gone)
<RAOF_> Hobbsee: Really?
<Hobbsee> RAOF: well, the one to be rejected is
<Hobbsee> RAOF: I was looking for you, actually.  How can I tell gnome-do that i want to connect to a machine via ssh console by default, not open it's root by ssh?
<RAOF> Um...
<RAOF> So, I presume Do is offering to open it's root by SSH because you've got a GNOME bookmark/mount set up.
<RAOF> Do you have the SSH plugin loaded for Do, and have a .ssh/config file which defines the host?
<RAOF> Hobbsee: ^^
<Hobbsee> RAOF: it's in .ssh/config
<Hobbsee> and the latter, yes
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, a new version uploaded(fix copyright information), thanks.
<RAOF> Hobbsee: Then after selecting the host in the first pane, you want to tab over and select "Connect with SSH" in the second pane.
<RAOF> After doing that a number of times, the relevance engine will pick it up and it'll become the default action.
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> for each ssh host, or?
<RAOF> For all SSH hosts, yes.
<RAOF> The relevance engine isn't quite cool enough to do per-item action relevance at this point, I think.
<Hobbsee> no, as in, do i need to do it a number of times for each ssh host, or it's a global count?
<Hobbsee> ah, right.
<Hobbsee> hurrah!
<Hobbsee> That fixed it, thanks!
<RAOF> Do becomes much more useful once you know how to use it.
<RAOF> We obviously need to make it easier to discover _how_ to use it :)
<Hobbsee> well, i thought it might have been something like that.
<Hobbsee> as that's how the t9 dictionary handles
<Hobbsee> but i'm surethat wasn't 10 times
<Hobbsee> and because repeatedly switching it every once in a while wasn't seeming to do it - i presume it needs to be in the same session?
<RAOF> It _should_ be remembered across sessions.
 * Hobbsee thought she would have used gnome-do more than 10 times for ssh, connecting to it
 * Hobbsee hasn't managed to trigger it, without consciously launching 10 versions of it
<StevenK> I find it won't remember "Connect with SSH" as the default
<StevenK> I always have to go "ant" <tab> "ssh"
<jdong> *shudder* how beautiful.
<RAOF> Possibly because you also "open" stuff a lot?  The relevance isn't per-item, and the SSH hosts I think are one of the worst-case behaviours.
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i don't, though.
<jdong> did you know when you statically link something against ffmpeg, faac, faad, libmp4v2, mpeg4ip, and dca, that the resulting binary is 9.3MB?
<jdong> the more you know!
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, a new version uploaded(fix copyright information), thanks.
<StevenK> RAOF: But I don't
<StevenK> RAOF: I use Do to run things and connect via ssh
<RAOF> Then maybe there's a bug somewhere.  You're right, I need to "off" <tab> "ssh", too.
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, a new version uploaded(fix copyright information), thanks.
<RAOF> lidaobing: You're probably pinging a little bit too frequently; it's unlikely to help.
<Hobbsee> woah.  do you *really* need to try every 5 lines?
<lidaobing> RAOF, 20 minutes one time, maybe too frequently, I will waiting for more time from now.
<fabrice_sp> Hi. A merge request with debdiff should be in Confirmed or New when subscribing u-s-u ?
<fabrice_sp> (it's for bug #285674)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285674 in hugin "[Merge request]Please merge Hugin 0.7.0-1 from Debian Experimental" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285674
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: either, afaik.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: ok. And sync request also?
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: confirmed.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: requestsync --help is quite useful, FYI
<fabrice_sp> ok. Could I update the wiki page with that information? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: thanks. Will check! :-)
<RAOF> Right.  Mono 2.0 transition for GNOME Do + Plugins done.  Let's see if I can't wrangle a dkms package out of nouveau's kernel modules.
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  it does the sponsorship automatically now.  Cool!
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: er, I lie
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: and that requestsync needs an update, on that page.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: not sure on merges, i don't think i'ts specified, but if you need sponsorship for hte sync, it gets set as new (as the sponsor confirms it, then the archive person closes it)
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee:  ok. So the best  thing is to let it as new. I was just wondering if having a debdiff would needs a special status or not.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: Not that I know of.
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: a debdiff counts as a patch, so tick "this is a patch" button
<Hobbsee> but apart from that, no, afaik.
<fabrice_sp> Hobbsee: ok. Will check I marked it as patch then. Thank you!
<Hobbsee> fabrice_sp: you're welcome!
<gralco> hi everyone
<slytherin> gralco: hi
<iulian> Hey gralco, slytherin.
<slytherin> iulian: hi
<RAOF> Well, that's pretty easy.
<RAOF> Urgh.  Almost.
<RAOF> I (almost) win!
<phoenix_rebearth> good meuning
<goshawk> hi
<Steck> hi
<willwill> please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple
<laga> willwill: typo in debian/control. it should read "it only supports" instead of "it only support"
<laga> willwill: does the debhelper level need to be so higH? (7)
<willwill> laga: thank you, I copied that from upstream
<willwill> laga: I don't use debhelper on my latest upload
<laga> willwill: is debian/compat needed then?
<laga> i'm not sure about that, i'm not a MOTU
<laga> i wonder if you need to have the real names of the upstream authors. i don't know what the policy says about that
<whs> laga: I also have dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory error in pbuilder
<laga> whs: and you're telling me this because...?
<whs> laga: I need help to fix tht
<laga> whs: it's better to ask everyone in the room, not just a specific person. you should also provide more information, eg what package you're trying to build and more log files (in a pastebin)
<whs> sorry
<willwill> my pbuilder log: http://pastebin.com/m62c06897
<Pupeno> How do I apply all patches of a package but without building it, so that I can create another patch?
<StevenK> Pupeno: Depends on the patch system in use
<willwill> Ok, I have reuploaded: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mbpurple
<Pupeno> willwill: debian/rules patch seems to work.
<goshawk> on http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/ near the dsss package there si a package(+) icon, what does it mean?
<goshawk> if i click it shows revu error
<goshawk> http://paste.ubuntu.com/78028/
<Hobbsee> willwill: your rules file looks wrong / weird?  See https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-cdbs.html ?
<willwill> Hobbsee: upstream does not use autotools
<Hobbsee> ah
<StevenK> willwill: Just because they don't use autotools doesn't make CDBS unsuitable
<willwill> StevenK: my latest upload uses makefile class from cdbs
<lidaobing> help review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=iptux, a new version uploaded(fix copyright information), thanks.
<goshawk> hi, i've two binaries that shares the sahttp://www.google.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgdcgnu.sourceforge.net%2FSOURCES%2F&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8me manpage. should i do a link
<goshawk> oops
<goshawk> sorr
<goshawk> sooory
<goshawk> how can i check is my gnupg key is enabled to upload on revu?
<goshawk> *if my
<nhandler> goshawk: Is your key on Launchpad?
<goshawk> yes
<goshawk> nhandler: i upload on ppa
<goshawk> and it works
<goshawk> but i uploaded on revu
<goshawk> yesterday
<nhandler> goshawk: Have you logged into REVU yet?
<goshawk> and i don't see the update of my package
<goshawk> no
<goshawk> wait
<goshawk> i'll login
<nhandler> The GPG keys are synced when you login. So if you haven't logged in yet, REVU will NOT have your key, and will reject uploads from you
<goshawk> nhandler: yep, i dind't login
<goshawk> from when i changed the key
<nhandler> :)
<goshawk> yes it's there now
<goshawk> thanks nhandler
<goshawk> :)
<nhandler> You're welcome goshawk
<amikrop> Hello there. When I try to SVN update with RapidSVN, I am asked for my RSA key password. How can I ommit this?
<amikrop> Actually, I am asked for my login password. I text input box says: Enter your login password to unlocl default keyring. The default keyring was not unlocked at login so you must unlock it now.
<amikrop> And it waits for my login password. I don't want to do that every time. How can I disable it?
<amikrop> * A text input box
<amikrop> * to unlock the
<amikrop> So, any help, please?
<eMerzh> DktrKranz : i've update my package that you had previously advocated....i correct the .desktop file ;)  ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman )
<ddaa> Test for demo purpose at ubuntu-party: bug 303404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303404 in rhythmbox "last.fm: selecting multiple songs produces a download error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303404
<ddaa> ubottu: thank you
<ubottu> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<goshawk> i've a binary that uses the same manpage of another binary
<goshawk> how can i make an ln -s using cdbs?
<goshawk> ln -s $(DESTDIR)/usr/share/man/man1/drebuild.1 drerun.1
<goshawk> if i do something like this during install::
<goshawk> it gives error
<goshawk> cuz /usr/share/man doesn't exist yet
<james_w> it might work better in binary-post-install/package::
<james_w> but $(DESTDIR)/usr/ probably doesn't exist
<james_w> um no, it will, sorry
<eMerzh> goshawk: im not an expert but.... what if you do ln -s $(DESTDIR)/usr/share/man/man1/drebuild.1 $(DESDIR)/usr/share/man/man1/drerun.1 ?
<goshawk> ok
<goshawk> eMerzh: i chrooted on it
<goshawk>  /usr/share does not exist
<goshawk> james_w: following your words
<james_w> did you switch to the other target?
<jariq> Hi. Could anyone please review new app request? Bug #281982
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281982 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ipwatchd" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281982
<mok0> jariq: your best bet is to submit the package to REVU. There are weekly reviewing sessions, and if you go on IRC that day, you are likely to succeed
<mok0> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<jariq> actually i am looking for someone who could be able to create package
<mok0> jariq: Ah :-)
<jariq> that could be submited to revu
<mok0> jariq: don't you want to get your feet wet?
<jariq> i tried to create package by myself but it was very time consuming
<mok0> jariq: in practice, the only way is to do it yourself.
<mok0> jariq: just come here and ask
<mok0> jariq: it _is_ time consuming
<jariq> but not for anyone experienced right?
<mok0> jariq: the trick is to become experienced
<mok0> jariq: to be honest, to get help, you have to show that you are willing to do work yourself
<jariq> i wrote that app :)
<mok0> jariq: cool
<jariq> i did my job
<mok0> jariq: not quite :-)
<mok0> jariq: what is your problem
<jariq> and i am looking for someone who could create a package
<mok0> with packaging I mean :-)
<mok0> jariq: is it the tools?
<jariq> i tried few times
<mok0> jariq: the debian/ dir?
<jariq> but as i wrote earlier it is very time consuming
<mok0> jariq: It will take you an hour or so
<jariq> i spent about six hours without any effect
<mok0> jariq: what did you do?
<jariq> read manual :)
<mok0> jariq: Ah, ok. So now you are ready to do the work
<mok0> jariq: basically, you need a debian/ dir with 5 files in it
<jariq> i do not feel that way
<mok0> jariq: Let me give you a hint: that is not the right attitude here
<jariq> ok go on
<mok0> jariq: you have a tar ball with your app ?
<jariq> yes
<mok0> jariq: unpack it somewhere in a work directory
<jariq> got it
<mok0> jariq: you have a Makefile or autotools system?
<jariq> Makefile
<mok0> jariq: Fine. cd to the top level of your app
<mok0> jariq: mkdir debian
<jariq> got it
<mok0> jariq: cd debian
<mok0> jariq: this is where you need to work to create the package
<jariq> ok
<mok0> jariq: first we make the rules file
<mok0> jariq: 2 secs
<jariq> is there any example file or should i create empty one?
<mok0> jariq: let's create an empty one
<mok0> jariq: first line of rules:
<mok0> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<mok0> 2nd line:
<mok0> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<mok0> 3rd and last:
<mok0> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
<mok0> jariq: got that?
<jariq> yes
<mok0> jariq: what is the copyright of your package?
<jariq> but file /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk does not exist on my hdd
<jariq> i installed debhelper package
<jariq> is there anything else i need to install ?
<mok0> jariq: ah yes. apt-get install cdbs
<mok0> debhelper
<jariq> ok got it
<jariq> license is gnu gpl v2
<mok0> jariq: what is the copyright of your package?
<mok0> ah ok good
<mok0> jariq: now we make the copyright file, in debian/ still
<mok0> 1st line
<mok0> Format-Specification:  http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
<mok0> 2nd line
<mok0> Upstream-Name: IPwatchD
<mok0> 3rd line
<mok0> Upstream-Maintainer: (you)
<mok0> 4:
<mok0> Upstream-Source: (url of where to get your tarball)
<mok0> got that?
<jariq> yes
<mok0> that was the header section of debian/copyright
<jariq> ok
<mok0> jariq: now comes as many Files: sections as is necessary to fully describe the copyright of all files. I think this might be sufficient:
<mok0> Files: *
<mok0> Copyright: Copyright 2008, (your-name) <your email>
<mok0> License: GPL
<jariq> should i put blank line between header and this text ?
<mok0> Yeah why not
<mok0> jariq: so, you should have 3 lines for the Files: section
<goshawk> if someone has free time, can please have a look at: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss
<goshawk> ?
<goshawk> thanks
<jariq> so anything else is needed in this file?
<mok0> jariq: after the License: GPL line, you need the short GPL clause, see here: http://pastebin.com/f798b947d
<mok0> jariq: and that finishes the copyright line
<mok0> jariq: got that?
<jariq> yeas
<mok0> jariq: ready to go on?
<jariq> yeap
<mok0> next file: compat.
<mok0> jariq: echo 6 > compat
<mok0> that's it
<mok0> jariq: 2 files to go
<handschuh> goshawk: please don't update the chagelog every upload
<handschuh> goshawk: it should ONLY state the launchpad "needs-packaging"-bug and the patches you do (if present)
<mok0> jariq: now we will create the changelog file
<goshawk> handschuh: sorry i didn't know
<mok0> jariq: which is used to collect the history of your package
<mok0> jariq: it has a strict format
<jariq> ok
<mok0> 1st line:
<goshawk> handschuh: ok i'll do it
<handschuh> goshawk: no problem, as you have patches, make sure you explain them in the changelog
<goshawk> yes i've 2 patches
<goshawk> so i should add them on changelog
<mok0> jariq: ah, what is the version of ipwatchip
<jariq> 1.1.1
<mok0> ok
<mok0> first line
<handschuh> goshawk: yes. also take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4145
<mok0> ipwatchd (1.1.1-0buntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
<mok0> jariq: next line empty
<jariq> ok
<mok0> jariq: 3rd line
<mok0> <space><space>* First packaged (LP: #281982)
<goshawk> handschuh: opening link
<mok0> (substitute <space> with a space :-)
<jariq> did it
<mok0> jariq: next line empty
<mok0> jariq: last line:
<mok0> <space>-- Jariq Lastname <you@email.org><space><space>
<goshawk> handschuh: Digital Mars and Gregor Richards
<goshawk> handschuh: they are in debian/copyright if i'm not wrong
<mok0> jariq: followed by the output of date -R
<iulian> s/1.1.1-0buntu1/1.1.1-0ubuntu1/g
<quentusrex> I need help with something.... My package needs the user to give it the mysql root password. But I don't know how to make my package ask for that during install. Can someone help?
<handschuh> goshawk: yes but there are some files without licensing and the licensing is not recognized
<goshawk> handschuh: what should i do?
<handschuh> goshawk: you might have to talk to upstream to let this fix
<mok0> jariq: got that?
<jariq> yes
<mok0> jariq: great. Last file, control
<mok0> first line:
<mok0> Source: ipwatchd
<goshawk> handschuh: are you refferring to some files like: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4145 ?
<mok0> jariq:
<mok0> 2nd line
<goshawk> wait
<goshawk> sorru
<mok0> Section: utils
<mok0> jariq: 3rd
<handschuh> goshawk: yes
<mok0> Priority: optional
<goshawk> handschuh: /var/revu/revu1-incoming/dsss-0811291639/dsss-0.78/rebuild/nprocs.h: *No copyright* UNKNOWN
<mok0> jariq: 4th
<goshawk> ?
<mok0> jariq: Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<mok0> jariq: 5th line
<handschuh> goshawk: some files have no valid license information an this has bo be fixed by upstream
<mok0> jariq: XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Jariq Lastname <jariq@email>
<mok0> jariq: 6th line
<goshawk> handschuh: ok what else to fix?
<mok0> Standards-Version: 3.8.0
<mok0> jariq: next line empty
<mok0> jariq: OK that was the header of debian/control
<jariq> got it
<handschuh> goshawk: debian/copyright
<mok0> jariq: after that, there are N sections each describing a binary package. I think you just need 1
<handschuh> goshawk: change the "ist was downloaded from" url to http://svn.dsource.org/projects/dsss/downloads
<jariq> mok0, and where should i specify dependencies?
<goshawk> handschuh: ok
<mok0> jariq: that goes in the header, after a Build-Depends: tag
<mok0> jariq: I skipped that for now
<handschuh> goshawk: debian/control: under the source-section, add a "Homepage" field
<jariq> ok no problem
<mok0> jariq: but in fact you need to put:
<mok0> Build-Depends: cdbs, debhelper (>= 6)
<mok0> jariq: and probably more, but that will be an exercise for you :-)
<handschuh> goshawk: you have some additional files outside of the debian directory which is not allowed
<goshawk> handschuh: i don't understand, can you give me an example?
<jariq> mok0, Build-Depends goes into control file?
<mok0> jariq: Yes, in the header section
<handschuh> goshawk: a, Im sorry, my bad; never mind
<goshawk> handschuh: :) yes
<jariq> mok0, ok put it there and will add all other dependencies later
<goshawk> handschuh: it happens
<mok0> jariq: great
<jariq> mok0, what should i put after header section?
<mok0> jariq, 1 (or more) empty line
<jariq> mok0, ok
<mok0> jariq: let's make the last few lines now
<jariq> mok0, ok go on
<mok0> jariq: Package: ipwatchd
<mok0> jariq: Architecture: any
<handschuh> goshawk: otherwise it looks fine to me ... but it is very likely that someone else finds other issues
<goshawk> handschuh: ok
<goshawk> let me fix
<goshawk> the things you said
<mok0> jariq: next line
<mok0> jariq: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
<mok0> jariq: that is shlibs<colon> Depends
<jariq> mok0, with space?
<mok0> jariq: no
<mok0> jariq: sorry
<jariq> mok0, ok
<mok0> jariq: finally, the description
<mok0> jariq: Description: simple daemon using libpcap to detect IP conflicts
<jariq> mok0, got it
<mok0> jariq: The long descriptions follows that, indented by 1 space
<goshawk> handschuh: thanks
<mok0> jariq: I suggest you use the bit from the LP bug
<mok0> jariq: 2nd paragraph
<jariq> mok0, intended like license in copyright file
<mok0> jariq: oh, we forgot something in the header of debian/control
<mok0> jariq: exactly
<mok0> jariq: Homepage:  http://ipwatchd.sourceforge.net/
<mok0> jariq: you are basically done. (Disclaimer: this is a skeleton, you will probably need to modify & expand)
<mok0> jariq: now try to build the package
<mok0> jariq: cd ..
<goshawk> handschuh: last thing
<mok0> jariq: fakeroot debian/rules build
<goshawk> handschuh: about the copyright issue
<handschuh> goshawk: yes ... contact upstream and ask them to fix this
<goshawk> handschuh: should i advice upstream for every file in http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/report.py/legal?upid=4145 or just the files like: /var/revu/revu1-incoming/dsss-0811291639/dsss-0.78/rebuild/gnuc.c: *No copyright* UNKNOWN ?
<handschuh> goshawk: the best might be all files, but the No Copyright files are the worst
<jariq> mok0, /usr/bin/fakeroot: 166: debian/rules: Permission denied
<mok0> jariq: yes, ok, you know what to do? Hint: it needs x mode
<goshawk> handschuh: can you show how do they should be?
<goshawk> handschuh: so i can create a patch
<goshawk> and submit upstream :)
<jariq> mok0, just control file or all files in debian folder?
<mok0> jariq: actually, only rules
<jariq> mok0, yes rules sorry
<handschuh> goshawk: yes that might be the best
<goshawk> handschuh: yes, but i don't know how should be look like, can you show me a good written one?
<goshawk> i've to go
<goshawk> write here
<goshawk> and i'll follow your guidelines
<goshawk> ok
<goshawk> bye
<handschuh> goshawk: you can look at the end of the gpl and find a template
<jariq> mok0, it ends up wiht debian/rules: 2: include: not found
<jariq> debian/rules: 3: include: not found
<mok0> jariq: did you install the cdbs package?
<jariq> mok0, yes /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk and /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk exist
<mok0> jariq: hmm...
<jariq> mok0, maybe these files include some others that are missing
<mok0> jariq: yes... maybe
<mok0> jariq: on of the files must be /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
<mok0> s/on/on
<mok0> s/on/one
<mok0> jariq: (you listed the same file twice)
<jariq> mok0, my control file has following contents
<jariq> #!/usr/bin/make -f
<jariq> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
<jariq> include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk
<mok0> jariq: that's rules, yes?
<jariq> mok0, yes
<mok0> jariq: you have debhelper installed?
<jariq> mok0, debhelper is already the newest version.
<mok0> jariq: can you pastebin debian/rules?
<jariq> mok0, i had a space before first line, my mistake sorry
<mok0> heh
<jariq> mok0, now it executed without errors
<mok0> jariq: cool
<mok0> jariq: is it compiling your program?
<jariq> mok0, it already finished
<jariq> mok0, without errors
<mok0> jariq: :-)
<mok0> jarriq, next ste
<mok0> step
<mok0> fakeroot debian/rules binary
<mok0> jariq: (this is "manual" building)
<mok0> jariq: step by step
<jariq> mok0, finished successfuly with one warning: warning, `debian/ipwatchd/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field `Original-Maintainer'
<mok0> jariq: yeah it always does that
<jariq> mok0, ok what is the next step?
<mok0> jariq: it may have generated a package in ../
<mok0> ls ../*deb
<jariq> wow
<jariq> mok0, it is there ../ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_i386.deb
<mok0> jariq: you can use "less" to view the contents of the package
<jariq> mok0, gr8 but there is one problem
<jariq> mok0, package does not contain all files that are installed when I run "make install" on my Makefile
<jariq> mok0, maybe I know where the problem is
<jariq> mok0, i'll try to rebuild
<mok0> jariq: yes I thought so
<mok0> jariq: it may have something to do with what your Makefile does
<mok0> jariq: the debian build system installs into the debian/tmp directory
<mok0> jariq: (a temporary directory)
<mok0> jariq: then it moves files from the debian/tmp directory into a package specific directory debian/ipwatchd/usr/... etc
<mok0> jariq: and the package is constructed from that
<jariq> mok0, about my Makefile, is there anything special (like some Makefile target) that to build the package successfuly ?
<mok0> jariq: uhm, I can't remember to tell you the truth... You may need to install into: $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin and so on
<jariq> mok0, aha
<jariq> mok0, where can i find info about that?
<mok0> jariq: let me think
<jariq> mok0, because I suspect that my Makefile does not follow some rules
<mok0> jariq: probably
<mok0> jariq: try the DESTDIR thing.
<jariq> mok0, any example?
<mok0> jariq: that may be sufficient. People who install from your tarball wont notice, because DESTDIR will not be set
<mok0> jariq: install -m 755 ipwatchd $(DESTDIR)/sbin
<mok0> jariq: (I guess that is where daemons go, perhaps /usr/sbin)
<jariq> mok0, Makefile can be viewed at https://ipwatchd.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ipwatchd/current/src/Makefile
<mok0> jariq: ah, yes, it needs a bit of work
<jariq> mok0, so for example i should modify "install" target..  line "cp ipwatchd /usr/local/sbin" to "cp ipwatchd $(DESTDIR)/usr/local/sbin" ???
<mok0> jariq: substitute "/usr/local" with "$(prefix)
<mok0> jariq: or perhaps $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)
<jariq> mok0, ok i am working on it
<mok0> jariq: you can set prefix at the top of Makefile
<mok0> jariq: it will be overridden by cdbs
<jariq> mok0, i modified install target of my Makefile
<jariq> mok0, but it did not help, binary files are not included in package
<mok0> jariq: can you carry out the fakeroot debian/rules clean step, please?
<jariq> mok0, debhelper is using install target or any else?
<mok0> jariq: Let's find out
<ma10> jdong: I need to ask you stuff about azureus. You there?
<jariq> mok0, clean step done successfuly
<mok0> jariq: now build again
<mok0> jariq: and go into debian/ and see what is there
<jariq> mok0, i executed "fakeroot debian/rules build" and just one file was added into debian directory "stamp-makefile-build"
<mok0> jariq: ok ,sounds right. Now try the same with fakeroot.... install
<jariq> mok0, make: *** No rule to make target `install'.  Stop.
<mok0> jariq: uhm... hang on
<mok0> jariq: try the fakeroot .... etc... binary step
<jariq> mok0, same result
<jariq> mok0, created package does not contain program files
<mok0> jariq: what's in debian/ now?
<jariq> mok0,
<jariq> mok0, changelog  compat  control  copyright  files  ipwatchd  rules  stamp-makefile-build
<mok0> jariq: check debian/ipwatchd/
<mok0> jariq: ls -R or something
<jariq> mok0, there are some generated files like docs
<mok0> jariq: that's a start :-)
<jariq> mok0, but none of them is created by my makefile
<jariq> mok0, I suggest to recapitulate
<mok0> jariq: Let me check something
<mok0> jariq: 1 minute
<jariq> mok0, ok
<mok0> jariq: Perhaps the install target is never called by cdbs
<jariq> mok0, it is possible
<mok0> jariq: but there's a neat way around it
<jariq> mok0, to call it when make without target is called ?
<mok0> jariq: where are the compiled files in your directory tree?
<jariq> in the same directory where source files
<mok0> jariq: We can just copy the files from your tree to the right place in debian/ipwatchd
<jariq> mok0, ok i will try that but i suggest short recapitulation
<mok0> jariq: ... and that is done in a file called debian/<packagename>.install
<mok0> jariq: ok
<jariq> mok0, so i unpack source into lets say /home/jariq/test
<mok0> ok
<jariq> mok0, than create /home/jariq/test/debian/ with those 5 files
<mok0> jariq: yes (but you've done it now :-))
<jariq> mok0, source files does not have to be in /home/jariq/test/src/ ?
<mok0> jariq: that's up to the upstream
<mok0> (=you in this case)
<jariq> mok0, so than i change working directory to /home/jariq/test
<mok0> jariq: In fact, all you need is a Makefile that will build the app(s) somehow
<mok0> yes
<jariq> mok0, and run  fakeroot debian/rules build and  fakeroot debian/rules binary
<mok0> jariq: well, those are the "debugging" steps
<mok0> jariq: normally, you just call "debuild"
<jariq> mok0, okey but after build and binary there should be whole package ready
<mok0> jariq: yes
<mok0> jariq: to upload to revu, you need to build a _source_ package
<mok0> jariq: and that consists of 3 files
<mok0> jariq: but you probably know that
<mok0> jariq: let's try making the debian/ipwatchd.install file
<jariq> mok0, ok
<mok0> jariq: let's just test it first, with only 1 line in it
<mok0> jariq: relative to the topdir, where is ipwatchd built?
<mok0> jariq: ./ipwatchd perhaps?
<jariq> mok0, i executed "fakeroot debian/rules clean"
<mok0> fine
<jariq> mok0, so what should be next step "fakeroot debian/rules build" ?
<mok0> jariq: see question above
<mok0> jariq: relative to the topdir, where is ipwatchd built?
<jariq> mok0, i am in directory where ipwatchd is built
<mok0> jariq: ... which is?
<mok0> topdir?
<jariq> yes
<mok0> jariq: great. Now first line of debian/ipwatchd.install:
<mok0> ./ipwatchd   /usr/sbin/
<jariq> got it
<mok0> jariq: that's it, now try building  "binary" and see if ipwatchd makes it into the package
<jariq> yes it is there
<mok0> jariq: yay
<jariq> mok0, i suppose i should add all relevant files to debian/ipwatchd.install
<mok0> jariq: now you know what to do :-)
<mok0> jariq: exactly.
<mok0> jariq: just one hint more
<mok0> jariq: <package>.install is a generic install
<mok0> jariq: there are some specialized install files as well, for example for manpages
<mok0> jariq: they are more intelligent
<mok0> jariq: so, try putting your manpage in a new file ipwatchd.manpages
<mok0> jariq: in debian of course
<mok0> jariq: and the rest in ipwatchd.install
<jariq> mok0, ok working on that
<mok0> jariq: now you have 7 files in debian/
<mok0> jariq: (I think)
<jariq> mok0, ok i'll skip manpages for now
<mok0> jariq: ok
<jariq> mok0, but using ipwatchd.install is not very flexible
<mok0> jariq: what do you mean?
<jariq> mok0, i mean u cannot change prefix
<jariq> mok0, or it is just relative?
<mok0> jariq: you don't need to. It just has to install things in the right place according to Debian policy
<jariq> mok0, ok
<jariq> mok0, so now after build and binary package is fine
<mok0> jariq: congrats
<mok0> jariq: before I leave, let's build a source package
<jariq> mok0, thanks a lot
<jariq> mok0, you've been very helpful
<mok0> jariq: my pleasure
<mok0> jariq: Use debuild -S -sa to build source package
<jariq> mok0, and source package can be submited to revu
<mok0> jariq: Yes
<mok0> jariq: you use "dput" utility, and send the *_source.changes file
<mok0> jariq: which pulls the other files along
<mok0> jariq: but you need a copy of your tarball in topdir/..
<mok0> jariq: and you have to name it: ipwatchd_1.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<jariq> mok0, well building of source package failed
<mok0> jariq: what's the problem?
<jariq> dpkg-source: failure: create ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.dsc: Permission denied
<jariq> dpkg-source: building ipwatchd in ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.dsc
<jariq> debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
<jariq> dpkg-source -b _work failed
<mok0> jariq: you don't have permission to write in .. (?)
<jariq> mok0, does this need root privileges ?
<mok0> jariq: no
<mok0> jariq: only if you are attempting to write in / ;-)
<jariq> mok0, my mistake
<jariq> mok0, i run it as root before and it cannot overwrite files
<mok0> jariq: ah
<mok0> jariq: that's why we have the "fakeroot" command
<mok0> jariq: it fakes root for an ordinary user when building packages
<jariq> mok0, it attempts to sing the package
<jariq> mok0, i have gpg key but it is protected by pass
<mok0> jariq: it should ask you for the pass
<jariq> mok0, it did not, showed "gpg: [stdin]: clearsign failed: secret key not available" instead
<mok0> jariq: hmm,
<mok0> jariq: just to get pass this point for now, try debuild -S -sa -uc -us
<jariq> mok0, it looks like it was successful
<mok0> jariq: yes, but you wont be able to upload an unsigned package, so you need to work that other problem out
<mok0> jariq: let's see what files were created
<mok0> jariq: you should have a *.diff.gz file
<mok0> jariq: a *dsc file and a *changes file
<jariq> mok0, ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.dsc ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_source.changes ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.dsc.asc ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.tar.gz ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_source.build
<jariq> mok0, these files were created
 * mok0 wonders why you have the ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.tar.gz file...
<jariq> :)
<mok0> jariq: you need a ipwatchd_1.1.1.orig.tar.gz
<mok0> jariq: which is just a copy of your upstream tarball (the one you unpackged 2 hrs ago)
<jariq> mok0, i skipped that warning
<mok0> jariq: naughty boy
<mok0> jariq: when you have the orig.tar.gz file, cd into topdir and build source package again
<mok0> jariq: we need to see a file called ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.diff.gz
<jariq> mok0, i put *orig* file there
<mok0> jariq: great
<jariq> mok0, and resulting files are ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.dsc ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_i386.deb ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_source.build ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1_source.changes ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.tar.gz
<jariq> so no diff file again
<mok0> jariq: you didn't repackage the tarball to contain debian/ did you?
<mok0> jariq: because you shouldn't do that
<jariq> no
<mok0> jariq: what files are listed in .dsc ?
<jariq> mok0,  dcd87f2d3ee0fadc0a0f0a83476bbce1 58213 ipwatchd_1.1.1-0buntu1.tar.gz
<jariq> mok0, i'll fix this later i will change directory structure anyway
<mok0> jariq: hmm. please try to rm or mv that tar.gz file.
<jariq> mok0, so when i finaly get that diff file
<jariq> mok0, that would be a file that should be submitted to revu ?
<mok0> jariq: when you get the diff.gz file, check to see that it contains all files in debian/ that you created
<mok0> jariq: the "source package" consists of 3 files: the orig.tar.gz, the diff.gz and the .dsc file.
<mok0> jariq: all those are described in the _source.changes file, with MD5 sums so that is the file you pass to "dput"
<jariq> mok0, ok thanks a lot
<mok0> jariq: you're welcome :-)
<jariq> mok0, i will try to do my best to get it there
<mok0> jariq: I'm sure you will succeed. But, please be patient.
<mok0> jariq: come here next friday, that is REVU day and you can ask to have the package reviewed
<jariq> mok0, i am sure that all files and other stuff have its reason but this process is too complicated to start
<mok0> jariq: I know
<jariq> mok0, ok next friday.. whole day?
<mok0> jariq: but now might be a good time to read the Ubuntu Packaging Guide... it's a hands on approach
<mok0> jariq: yes, in fact it starts UTC-11 and goes on to UTC+12
<jariq> mok0, i read it before but i hope will understand more now :)
<mok0> jariq: I think you will
<jariq> mok0, one more thing
<jariq> mok0, that bug on launchpad should i change it somehow ? assign to me or something
<mok0> jariq: yes, that would be a good idea. And set it to "In progress"
<jariq> mok0, ok thanks a lot again for your help
<mok0> jariq: We referenced that bug in debian/changelog, so when your package gets uploaded, it will be closed automatically
<mok0> jariq: good luck with your package!
<mok0> jariq: when you become experienced, you can help someone else :-)
<jariq> mok0, sure :) if that day comes
<mok0> jariq: See you later!
<jariq> c ya
 * directhex completes his annual charity good deed
<james_w> directhex: removal requests require sponsorship you know?
<directhex> james_w, hm, do they?
<james_w> yup
<james_w> just came across stetic, I'll check it out now
<james_w> any more that should be looked over?
<directhex> i think that's our only removal. let me check the wiki
<directhex> ftpmaster has acted on it already - http://bugs.debian.org/507126 - but pitti suggested I should file a separate ubuntu removal anyway, just to be sure
<james_w> sure, there's no great problem with it
<james_w> just wanted to make sure you knew
<directhex> i'll know for next time :)
<quentusrex> If I need to patch a file controlled by another package, how do I do this???
<directhex> quentusrex, which file?
<SUNWjoejaxx> hmmm
<james_w> directhex: how does this look? http://paste.ubuntu.com/78128/
<directhex> james_w, offhand it looks perfect :)
<directhex> james_w, does a test compile agree with my analysis?
<jdong> Dear HandBrake buildsys: If a library 35 seconds into the build failed, please don't continue building for 45 minutes and then tell me that. Thanks, bye.
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: hahaha
<SUNWjoejaxx> btw
<SUNWjoejaxx> survey of the day
<laga> jdong: and 45 minutes after the library FTBS, you noticed how ccache would have been a good idea
<SUNWjoejaxx> if a package provides a file which is also provided by dpkg would you just create a conflict field or rename the binary to something else? :P
<jdong> SUNWjoejaxx: haha conflict dpkg!!!
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: yes sir! :D
<SUNWjoejaxx> :P
<directhex> jdong, i have a $20k proprietary app with the same problem
<jdong> SUNWjoejaxx: I'm in a much nastier dilemma right now.
<jdong> handbrake currently pumps out these horrendous 10MB binaries
<jdong> actually 2x10MB
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: oh?
<SUNWjoejaxx> oh wow
<directhex> handbrake is pretty junky, but popular amongst users
<jdong> SUNWjoejaxx: upstream uses a fairly patched up media stack and very specific mp4v2, etc.
<jdong> so... I'd rather not basically fork the project by hacking it to build against system libs
<SUNWjoejaxx> yeah
<jdong> so I'm just gonna admit defeat and bundle upstream libs
<jdong> I dont' want another upstream that hates our guts (looks at azureus-gcj)
<SUNWjoejaxx> lol
<jdong> but at the same time, debian/copyright looks like it's gonna be like 20 pages.
<jdong> mpeg4ip alone is like 10 pages
<directhex> jdong, this proprietary app is 99.9% fortran, and uses a single c lib for helper application. it takes about an hour to build on 4 cores of 1.6ghz itanium. if the c lib compile fails, it still spends an hour on the fortran, then fails on the final linker step
<directhex> but the build system (its own one) cannot bail or resume - it always starts from scratch
<jdong> directhex: haha same here
<SUNWjoejaxx> lol fortran :)
<directhex> and the c lib fails due to use of POSIX defines removed in 1992 :)
<jdong> they use some weird jam+make+autoconf
<jdong> and the makefile for bundled libs builds 1-by-1 in serial but doesn't fail until all have been attempted to be built
<DRebellion> Hi guys, I've just uploaded cifer (a multipurpose classical cryptanalysis and code-breaking tool) to revu: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=cifer . Does anybody have a bit of free time to take a look? Thanks.
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: i am still wondering if a conflict is enough though
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: or the right way
<jdong> SUNWjoejaxx: I'd recommend renaming the file
<jdong> I somehow think the idea of conflicting dpkg won't be appreciated :D
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: same here hahahaha
<jdong> is there anything in policy against using bzip2 compression instead of gzip if there's a significant filesize benefit?
<Elbrus> Can somebody of the MOTUs comment on my last comment in bug 275688: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fpc/+bug/275688/comments/41
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275688 in fpc "License issue: please sync fpc 2.2.2-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275688
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 275688 in fpc "License issue: please sync fpc 2.2.2-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,Confirmed]
<Elbrus> Basically I want to now if I am on the right track
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: is there any suggested way of renaming binaries during install: build in debian/rules? an mv seems hackish
<Elbrus> anyway, Debian has removed all old versions of fpc from their archives
<jdong> SUNWjoejaxx: I'd use a mv in the install target.
<Elbrus> but maybe we can keep fpc in with backporting.
<SUNWjoejaxx> jdong: yeah that is what i did but it seems hackish haha
<SUNWjoejaxx> too bad there is no such thing as dh_rename
<quentusrex> directhex: It's the /etc/php5/cli/php.ini
<SUNWjoejaxx> i think i would feel better
<SUNWjoejaxx> lol
<RainCT> \sh: why isn't Leonov in the WhoUsesBzr page? :)
<directhex> quentusrex, i don't know whether there's a specific way of handling that file. there might be. is there a php team you can ask?
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Don't patch the php.ini, just add what you need under /etc/php5/conf.d/
<quentusrex> jmarsden: would that override the upload_max_filesize? I need it changed from 2M to 20M
<jmarsden> I don't know... I think it will.  Try it and see?
<quentusrex> Also, how does apt-get handle package updates? do I have to manually specify the what should change? or will it handle what has changed?
<jmarsden> quentusrex: Your question makes no sense to me.  apt-get installs packages... it doesn't let you say "install this bit of the package only..."?
<RainCT> \sh: oh, it is :)
<directhex> jmarsden, no, it DOES ask you about config files
<directhex> jmarsden, assuming some criteria are met, etc
<quentusrex> I mean, if I have a script that adds a user, and a group, etc. And the user installs my package. Then I have to change some of the documentation. Will it try to add the user and group during the update?
<jmarsden> Not if your script checks whether that user/group alraedy exist before it adds them :)
<quentusrex> jmarsden: the reason I use that as an example, is I have a script that modifies a mysql table. I don't want that part run during an update. Only an install....
<quentusrex> So if the person installs mypackage-0.2 the script is run. But if they are updating from mypackage-0.1 to 0.2, then it shouldn't run...
<jmarsden> There is a way to test for that... but I forget what it is... read the docs on what dpkg really does during an update...
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> I wish there was more clear documentation on how to package software...
<quentusrex> Either I've completely missed something... or there is a steep learning curve for packaging software...
<jmarsden> quentusrex: It's steep, but not vertical :)
<Elbrus> quentusrex: /me thinks the latter is treu
<quentusrex> :)
<Elbrus> s/treu/true
<awmcclain> What's the best way of simulating the launchpad build process on my dev box? Using pbuilder and plogin? Am I remembering that correctly?
<quentusrex> Is it possible to use apt-get install on a local package?
<jmarsden> awmcclain: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<awmcclain> quentusrex: There is a way to build a repostiory locally... there's something in an ubuntu wiki page.
<awmcclain> jmarsden: thank you
<awmcclain> !
<quentusrex> I have a package I'm trying to test and it has dependancies...
 * Elbrus uses pdebuild (depends on pbuilder) but had to resort to sbuild the other day for one package...
<jmarsden> quentusrex: quentusrex Yes, if you set up a local repo.  Maybe just use dpkg -i to install it?
<quentusrex> I use dpkg -i to install it, but dpkg won't download and install the dependancies...
<Elbrus> quentusrex: example of building your own repo: http://blogs.cae.tntech.edu/mwr/2007/05/28/my-own-private-debian-repository/
<Elbrus> but dpkg -i should take dependancies into account, right?
<quentusrex> it gives me errors...
<Elbrus> which are?
<quentusrex> saying that the packages aren't installed.
<Elbrus> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<quentusrex> I'll have to try again to get the errors... Thank goodness for a virtualized testing server...
<nhandler> Elbrus: dpkg does NOT handle dependencies
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Take a look at pbuilder too.
<Elbrus> oops
<nhandler> Depending on what you are doing, apt-get build-dep can sometimes help
<quentusrex> pbuilder is useful, but I am trying to install it on an actual usable machine.
<quentusrex> I'm testing fuctionality at this stage.
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Ah. Sorry.
<quentusrex> nhandler: can build-dep handle a local file rather than a file in the repo?
<nhandler> quentusrex: The file was never in the repos?
<quentusrex> not yet...
<awmcclain> Sorry for the n00b question, but it's been a while since I've done package maintenance. Pbuilder automatically fetches the packages in Build-Depends*, right? That's what I'm trying to test.
<nhandler> Another option is to use a PPA. Upload the package, add the entry to your sources.list, and then install it using apt
<quentusrex> I'm going to be the first to 'hopefully' put it there...
<jmarsden> awmcclain: Yes
<nhandler> Yes it does awmcclain
<quentusrex> nhandler: that could work...
<awmcclain> nhandler: Can't you apt-get install the package after dpkg -i fails due to dependencies?
<awmcclain> I seem to remember doing that.
<nhandler> awmcclain: You can. But I'm not sure what quentusrex is trying to test
<nhandler> I don't think he wants to manually apt-get each dependeny
<awmcclain> One last thing... is it still the best route to get a package into debian, then port to ubuntu?
<jmarsden> Best, as long as time is not critical, I'd say
<awmcclain> Heh. So I've seen. Thank you all.
<awmcclain> nhandler: Oh, no, from what I've seen (though I haven't tested in a while), is that apt will get your dependencies for you on a botched dpkg -i.
<nhandler> awmcclain: apt won't do it automatically. dpkg will complain about you not having the dependencies installed. You can then use apt to install them (manually)
<awmcclain> Each dependency individually?
<nhandler> awmcclain: Yes. However, now that I think about it, I think gdebi might be able to fetch the dependencies automatically for you if they are missing (but I'm not positive)
<azeem> you can usually try to run apt-get -f install
<awmcclain> Oh boo. http://paste.ubuntu.com/78157/
<awmcclain> Ah ha. the pbuilder conf is broken in the ubuntu package.
<quentusrex> Can someone check some warnings for me? https://launchpad.net/+builds/lansones
<quentusrex> Does that look 'broken'
<awmcclain> Not to me. The build environment will download the build dependencies IIRC
<quentusrex> thanks awmcclain it's my first... I'm all kinds of nervous....
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Oh, it'll break somewhere else. Then you just need to make changes and reupload. ;)
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Are you testing in pbuilder before you upload?
<quentusrex> awmcclain: I'm building it with my actual system. and that works.
<quentusrex> yay it worked.
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Right, but that would only be a useful test the first time (in terms of dependencies), unless you remove all the build-deps and dependencies after each build.
<quentusrex> :)
<quentusrex> awmcclain: I do.. I have a snapshot of a virtual server that I use for test building.
<awmcclain> quentusrex: Perfect.
<quentusrex> I'll be working on getting a better build framework setup, but for now I just need it to work...
<quentusrex> awmcclain: someone sent earlier how to setup an apt mirror. I think I'll need to do that...
<awmcclain> quentusrex: There's a link on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PbuilderHowto
<quentusrex> awmcclain: is there a way to automatically increment the changelog?
<awmcclain> quentusrex: For what... a different distribution or a different build version?
<quentusrex> different build version
<quentusrex> I need to fix a bug... and update the changelog...
<awmcclain> quentusrex: man debchange
#ubuntu-motu 2008-11-30
<quentusrex> What about that feature where you can export a global variable with your name and e-mail
<quentusrex> ?
<ScottK2> export DEBMAIL=...
<ScottK2> export DEBFULLNAME=...
<nhandler> ScottK2: It is DEBEMAIL, not DEBMAIL
<ScottK2> nhandler: Right. Typo.  Thanks.
<nhandler> np ScottK2
<quentusrex> What is the process for a ?backport?
<nhandler> quentusrex: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<quentusrex> Will hardy ever get: dput 0.9.2.35ubuntu1 ???
<quentusrex> If I need to change php5's upload_max_filesize from 2M to 20M, can this be done from conf.d?
<ScottK2> quentusrex: Not unless someone asks for a backport.
<quentusrex> and my second question?
 * ScottK2 doesn't know a thing a php and intends to keep it that way.
<x1250> I'm mantaining inkscape svn on my ppa. I wonder if I have to replace the Maintainer field (Ubuntu Core Developers) with my own name/email, and remove XSBC-Original-Maintainer field?
<nhandler> x1250: I believe that is prefered for PPA packages
<x1250> nhandler, ok, thanks
<quentusrex> ScottK2: can I ask for a backport? if so how?
<nhandler> quentusrex: Read that help.ubuntu.com link I sent you earlier. It outlines the process of requesting a backport
<quentusrex> Where do I put post install commands that should only be run on install and not on update?
<coppro> is there an ETA on OO.o3?
<awmcclain> Hrm. I forget... what's the command that I can use in conjunction with pbuilder to login to the chroot and check my binary dependencies?
<awmcclain> sudo pbuilder login. Silly me.
<awmcclain> If you run pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=builldd, is it normal not to get adduser within the chroot?
<awmcclain> Is there a better way to test Depends: than by trying to install the package inside the pbuilder chroot?
<jmarsden> awmcclain: Not that I know of.
<jmarsden> Well, you could make a vm using a minimal CD and install in that, if you think the chroot-ness is an issue??
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Hrm. I'm trying to set up my pbiulder environment, but my chroot doesn't have adduser (which is required by the pre_install on one of my packages).
<awmcclain> jmarsden: My other pbuilder environment has it installed... so I'm wondering if it's something I did when building.
<jmarsden> Or does the package need Depends: adduser ?  Not sure.
<awmcclain> s/building/running pbuilder create
<jmarsden> awmcclain: My Inrtepid i386 pbuilder seems to have adduser in it...
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Right. But isn't preinst run before it checks for dependencies? And isn't adduser standard on ubuntu distros?
<jmarsden> I wonder if the buildd variant thing does not include adduser for some reason??
<awmcclain> hrm
<jmarsden> awmcclain: As an additional test you could try uploading to your PPA and see if it builds there??
<awmcclain> time to create a new pbuild
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Heh. This was all in an attempt to get it TO build on the ppa. ;)
<jmarsden> OK, but if you suspect the issue is with pbuilder ... try building some other way.  Does the PPA builder complain about the lack of adduser in the same way?
<jmarsden> Wait... testing install-time Depends to get PPA to build?  That sounds odd?  Does the PPA builder really install the resulting binary to check its Depends?
<awmcclain> jmarsden: No no. The control file I've been handed is quite poor, so I'm moving packages into the Build-Depends-Indep, and I'm noticing that there are a lot of packages in the Depends: that I think are extraneous. So I'm trying to test that.
<jmarsden> OK.  ubuntu-minimal pulls in adduser, so I'd say it really should be in your pbuilder.
<awmcclain> Can you explain to me how --debootstrap and --buildd mimic the PPA "more accurately"?
<anakron> Hi all
<anakron> i have a question
<anakron> if a bug is related to a bad translated word into a po file, can i change that file and then make a patch for this program?
<anakron> Â¿?
<ScottK> anakron: If it's a Universe package, yes.  If it's in Main, there's a whole separate process.
<anakron> cheese
<anakron> but i can change a translation error? or must be a translation team?
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Well, pbuilder create (without flags) gave me adduser. go figure.
<jmarsden> awmcclain: Bug in the variant=buildd template, then, probably.
<anakron> i wanna know
<anakron> if it is a translation bug
<anakron>  can i fix it editing the po file?
<anakron> if its right to do in this way
<anakron> and then make a patch for it and upload it to the bug page
<jmarsden> awmcclain: In case you care... the code dealing with the buildd variant is in the work_out_deps function in the /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/intrepid script.  Seems to pick only packages with Build_essential: yes
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Ah, which makes sense.
<anakron> and if it can be done, someone know a translation into german of "cheese webcam booth"
<awmcclain> kÃ¤se something something
<awmcclain> ;)
<anakron> XD
<jmarsden> anakron: If you do not speak German, do not do German translation for Ubuntu?
<anakron> it was published by a german user
<anakron> he says that is a bug in the translation of cheese
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Do you have any experience with autoppa?
<anakron> the translation that appers is "Cheese-Website"
<jmarsden> Google language tools suggests   KÃ¤se Webcam Stand
<jmarsden> awmcclain: No, I'm not prolific enough to need it!
<anakron> thanks ill take it like a reference
<anakron> but ill look for other opinions
<anakron> KÃ¤se Webcam Stand?Â¿
<anakron> but it not the right translation
<anakron> cause the name of the program musnt be changed
<anakron> so it could be "cheese Webcam Stand"
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Heh. https://launchpad.net/~awmcclain/+archive Before, I had to upload each one by hand.
<jmarsden> Yes, looks like you are good candidate for autoppa.  Does it work for you?
<awmcclain> jmarsden: I'm on cloud nine with it. Of course, I had to install a client version of ubuntu since all of the gnupg caching methods require an x server...
<anakron> thakns jmarsden :D
<jmarsden> awmcclain: Hmm.  gpg-agent and pinentry-curses ?
<awmcclain> jmarsden: Do you use bzr to handle packaging branches? If so, do you use LP?
<jmarsden> I'm a beginner with bzr.
<awmcclain> jmarsden: pinentry-curses wouldn't work for me. I hanged... or, it wouldn't cache the passphrase.
<vorian> grrr
<jmarsden> awmcclain: File a bug against it?
<vorian> what's up with revu! i can't login :P
<awmcclain> jmarsden: I'm sure it was the way I had it configured. After wasting too much time at 3AM, i just installed intrepid using vmware. I'm actually very happy with it.
<jmarsden> OK.
<jmarsden> vorian: It let me log in just fine (using LP OpenID), looks like it is working...?
<vorian> ya, just got it
<jmarsden> Good.
<vorian> there was an error, but I kept refreshing over and over and over again
<vorian> <3
<vorian> much love
<x1250> hi guys, could someone shed some light with this compile error (osmo svn): http://paste.ubuntu.com/78210/
<x1250> gui.c: In function 'gui_create_about': gui.c:1806: error: expected expression before ')' token
<StevenK> x1250: Need the see the code around that line
<x1250>     sprintf(tmpbuf, "%s %d", _("SVN revision"), REV);
<StevenK> s/Need the/Need to/
<x1250> wait, I'll pastebin it
<x1250> StevenK, offending line is 38: http://paste.ubuntu.com/78211/
<StevenK> What is REV defined as?
<x1250> uhm, I can't find other REV in that file, only #ifndef REV, and the one in the offending line
<StevenK> It's more than likely either in conf.h or another header
<StevenK> I suspect REV is ""
<StevenK> Due to the Making all in src
<StevenK> Sigh. Firefox, I hate you
<StevenK> Due to "/bin/bash: svn: command not found" in the build log
<x1250> StevenK, $ grep -rin "^#define" * | grep REV returns nothing related
 * Hobbsee suggests installing svn, as a start.
<StevenK> Build-Depending
<StevenK> It looks like a PPA build log
<StevenK> x1250: -r and * aren't really right.
<StevenK> x1250: I'd suggest grep -r REV .
<x1250> StevenK, I can't find it, it isn't there, I guess he forgot? :)
<StevenK> I guess it gets added at build itme.
<StevenK> s/itme/item/
<StevenK> x1250: My thought is, REV is "", which makes that snprintf(); blow up, hence your compile error
<x1250> what should I do? just change it to some string like "622" (which is the revision) ?
<StevenK> x1250: Or add a Build-Depends on svn, so it can run svn info or some such
<StevenK> It may try to run a svn update or svn checkout, but don't do that.
<awmcclain> If a build fails in the PPA, should I increment the ~ppa version number?
<StevenK> It will probably fail to upload if you don't.
<x1250> StevenK, adding subversion did the trick...
<x1250> thanks
<StevenK> No problem
<freakabcd> hi all
<freakabcd> an offtopic question: Is there a way for me to install/build+install the xorg-video-intel driver from Hardy in my intrepid install?
<freakabcd> there is a serious regression in the intrepid package, which is unfortunately due to upstream
<RainCT> freakabcd: out of curiosity, which regression is it?
<freakabcd> 'screen totally blank', 'screen flickering', 'external display not on proper resolution', 'sometimes showing junk screen on X startup'
<freakabcd> many of these happening on many people's various intel chipsets for laptops, 855gm, 915, 945, etc.
<freakabcd> i really want to rebuild the source package from hardy onto my intrepid. would you be able to help me out with this?
<freakabcd> and judging from the traffic on bugs.fdo, it hasn't been fixed yet :(
<freakabcd> the hardy driver worked perfectly for me (and all the others having the problems)
<RainCT> freakabcd: and I assume this is with compiz disabled?
<RainCT> (and no, I don't know how the X packages work :()
<freakabcd> ofcourse, i never used compiz. my graphics chip is incapable of style ;)
<freakabcd> RainCT, doesn;t matter. as long as you can perhaps guide me in building the source package of hardy in intrepid
<freakabcd> i don;t need to get a final package, just need the intel driver, so i can replace the current one
<RainCT> Ah OK. I'm asking because here Compiz doesn't work anymore on Jaunty (but because the new compiz version uses some GPU stuff which the intel driver doesn't support for some older cards). The symptoms didn't match anyway, though.
<freakabcd> so i just downloaded the .dsc, orig.tar.gz and the diff.gz file
<freakabcd> what do i do now?
<RainCT> freakabcd: dpkg-source -x *dsc; cd xserver-xorg-v*; get-build-deps .; dpkg-buildpackage
<RainCT> not sure if it will work, though
<freakabcd> lemme give it a roll
<RainCT> (you'll need ubuntu-dev-tools and pbuilder installed for get-build-deps to work; else you can just look them up in debian/control and install them yourself)
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) previously advocated by dktrkranz but just corrected :)
<RainCT> OT, does youtube support ogg (or is there some similar page which supports it)?
<freakabcd> RainCT, bah.. there were some issues.. but i worked around them and finally built and installed in /tmp/intel as prefix.
<freakabcd> so now i will try to replace the currently existing files (making sure to backup ofcourse)
<freakabcd> and i hope it works
<freakabcd> if it does, i will ask the ubuntu people to provide a package of the old driver for the peole having the issues
 * Hobbsee expects they probably won't
<Hobbsee> that jump in versions was pretty big, and required upgrades of various other packages, iirc, and a couple of new packages.
<freakabcd> nope.. nothing major required..
<Hobbsee> so, downward compatibility might be wishful thinking.
<freakabcd> i just built the files myself
<Hobbsee> does it actually work, or just build?
<Hobbsee> right.  I was talking about it actually working.
<freakabcd> yeah, have to test it now. only thing i had to modify was to edit the configure.ac file a little bit to enable build
<freakabcd> in theory it should work now as a video driver. because it was built with all the right prequisite libs on my machine. hopefully it works too. i've gotta eat now. will teat it after dinner and let you guys know.
<freakabcd> anyway, if i get it working and ubuntu guys aren;t willing to provide a deb, i'll probably post in the bug reports that i have it working with the old driver.
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> if someone has free time, please can review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss ?
<goshawk> please if someone has free time, can review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=dsss ?
<anakron> Hi all
<anakron> Hi RainCT
<anakron> Hi al
<anakron> hi all
<anakron> one question
<anakron> if I upload a patch for a bug
<anakron> and its works fine
<anakron> what i can do now?
<RainCT> hi anakron :)
<anakron> Hi Rain
<RainCT> anakron: I'm looking at it now. Usually you would subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors (or ubuntu-main-sponsors, if the package is in main or restricted) team to the bug report and set the status to "Confirmed"
<anakron> i add ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<anakron> cause cheese is a universe package
<RainCT> yep
<anakron> so, now, i must wait
<anakron> im looking for some bugs like these ones
<anakron> to fix them fast
<RainCT> anakron: set the status to "confirmed" and change the "assigned to" field to "nobody"
<anakron> ok
<anakron> done
<eMerzh> if someone want to review my package (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman ) previously advocated by DktrKranz  but just corrected :)
<nhandler> If the homepage/author email change for a package not in Debian, should I update the copyright and control files to contain this new information?
<Laney> james_w: Still up for some sponsorship? Or shall I just u-u-s it up?
<Laney> nhandler: Probably not worth an upload on its own
<Laney> but if you're uploading for some other reason then sure
<james_w> Laney: hit me up
<Laney> james_w: bug #303724
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 303724 in gtwitter "Please update gtwitter for Mono 2.0 transition (also fixes long-standing FTBFS!)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/303724
<james_w> ! :-)
 * directhex hands Laney cake
<Laney> It hasn't built for months
 * Laney rocks with directhex 
<Laney> 'tis actually quite a cool app, I might start using it
<directhex> heh!
<james_w> Laney: do you have a clean diff I can review?
<Laney> I can filterdiff one up
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> nothing wrong with what you did, just don't feel like wading through right now to find the important bits
<quentusrex> I need some help with my apt package.
<quentusrex> I need information on what scripts are run and when...
 * Laney slaps filterdiff
<directhex> quentusrex, you mean the dh_ entries in debian/rules?
<quentusrex> Example: I need to know where to put my script so that it is only installed on install, and not run on upgrades.
<Laney> james_w: filterdiff -i gtwitter-1.0~beta/gtwitter/Makefile.am -i "gtwitter-1.0~beta/debian/*" -i gtwitter-1.0~beta/configure.ac gtwitter-mono.debdiff
<james_w> Laney: thanks
<Laney> np
<quentusrex> directhex: yes, I mean those entries. I'm trying to find one that will only run on install...
<james_w> Laney: uploaded thank you. Now apply for MOTU.
<Laney> :$
<Laney> I have no confidence!
<directhex> but you get a special MOTU hat
<james_w> Laney: I think you are definitely ready, and I'm tired of sponsoring thing for you :-)
<james_w> directhex: "using Gnome;" doesn't do what I expect, am I missing something?
<directhex> james_w, what do you expect? :)
<james_w> I have build failure of " error CS0103: The name `Gnome' does not exist in the current context"
<james_w> adding "using Gnome" gives "error CS0246: The type or namespace name `Gnome' could not be found. Are you missing a using directive or an assembly reference?"
<directhex> james_w, "using" allows you to use methods in a namespace without fully qualified names (e.g. 'using System;' allows you to use 'Console.WriteLine' rather than 'System.Console.WriteLine')
<james_w> ah
<directhex> james_w, to get your hands on the namespace itself, you tend to need the assembly itself to be referenced when compiling
<directhex> james_w, which means -r:/path/to/foo.dll
<james_w> I want "import" or something then I guess
<directhex> james_w, or, for mono, you can use -pkg:some_pkgconfig_thing
<directhex> e.g. -pkg:gnome-sharp2.0
<james_w> nice
<directhex> another advance found in mono but not in that lame windows CLI framework from that bloated company nobody likes ;)
<eMerzh> if a motu or otherone has time to review my package ...http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
 * directhex updates debian wiki
 * Laney updates debian
<james_w> directhex: I uploaded, autopano-sift, working on muinescrobbler
<directhex> congrats Laney, i think you've officially got the first transitioned app package in any archive :)
<Laney> yay!
<directhex> james_w, oh, really? you beat Laney? :o
<Laney> unyay!
<directhex> hm. is LP being glacially slow for anyone else?
<Laney> no more than usual
<james_w> I uploaded banshee as well the other day
<Laney> james_w: You should be updating http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO !
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I can't remember my debian wiki password :-)
<Laney> directhex: What does [M] and [U] mean?
<james_w> directhex: http://paste.ubuntu.com/78352/ review please :-)
<directhex> Laney, universe & main!
<Laney> aha
<directhex> james_w, let me try a test build
<james_w> directhex: it builds :-)
 * james_w things directhex is silly for thinking I would dare to show him a patch that wasn't at least build tested :-)
<Laney> Shouldn't it be MCS = csc?
<directhex> well, i was wondering if the configurability was doing as expected. /me checks build log
<directhex> nope, james_w wins
<directhex> make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/muinescrobbler-0.1.8'
<directhex> csc -target:library -out:AudioscrobblerPlugin.dll -r:Mono.Security.dll -r:System.Web.dll -pkg:gconf-sharp-2.0 -pkg:glade-sharp-2.0 -pkg:gnome-sharp-2.0 -pkg:muine-plugin -resource:Audioscrobbler.glade EventQueue.cs Functor.cs Global.cs Song.cs GAudioscrobbler.cs AudioscrobblerPlugin.cs
<james_w> ok to upload?
<directhex> james_w, well played, seems spot on to me
<james_w> thanks directhex
<james_w> directhex: shall I do sysinfo in case NEW holds up the package from Debian?
<directhex> james_w, IMHO yes
<directhex> james_w, hanska hasn't pulled it into pkg-cli-apps svn yet, so evidently any updates at the ubuntu end are still valuable
<james_w> directhex: what are pkg-mono's plans for the packages that they do not maintain?
<directhex> james_w, beyond passing patches to the maintainers, the options are limited. NMU? it's hardly ideal, and seen as aggressive by some maintainers
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> though won't everything FTBFS?
<directhex> james_w, in experimental? yep!
<directhex> james_w, which means OOo and kde4bindings right now :)
<directhex> james_w, and all the listed apps/libs in jaunty
<james_w> good way to orchestrate a transition :-)
<directhex> james_w, violently, you mean? :p
<james_w> make everything RC buggy so that you can NMU to your hearts consent :-)
<directhex> heh ;)
<james_w> directhex: should we ubuntu1 everything you aren't maintainer for then?
<james_w> we can always sync over the top later
<directhex> james_w, as long as the debian maintainer gets a copy, i think it's probably for the best
<directhex> yeah, exactly
<directhex> james_w, that's why so much of the core stack is (needlessly now) ubuntu1
<directhex> james_w, the only bit of the core stack requiring ubuntuing is monodoc, but we did it anyway to help bypass NEW delays
<james_w> my concern is that we could end up with a half-done transition and you trying to find sponsors for these updates when everyone is focused on release
<james_w> I assume you are happy with the maintained stuff getting updated in time?
<directhex> james_w, yes, i think those are safe enough
<directhex> worst case, it slips past DIF
<james_w> cool
<james_w> sounds like a plan
<james_w> ** (/usr/lib/mono/2.0/gmcs.exe:14774): WARNING **: The following assembly referenced from /usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll could not be loaded:
<james_w>      Assembly:   Mono.Cairo    (assemblyref_index=2)
<james_w> sounds odd
<directhex> james_w, what's throwing it?
<james_w> youtranslate
<james_w> why does gtk-sharp not depend on cairo?
<directhex> james_w, it does
<directhex> directhex@mortos:~$ apt-cache depends libgtk2.0-cil
<directhex>   Depends: libmono-cairo1.0-cil
<directhex> hm.....
<james_w> ah, nice didn't know about "apt-cache depends", thanks :-)
<directhex> try adding a direct build-dep on libmono-cairo2.0-cil ?
<directhex> shouldn't be needed though :x
<james_w> yep that works
<james_w> want me to upload with that, or does this need a fix in gtk?
<directhex> i don't *think* it's a gtk problem, we'd have seen it before
<james_w> should it not depend on the 2.0 version
<james_w> sorry, I don't mean gtk itself, but libgtk2.0-cil
<directhex> hm
<directhex> what was the FULL build error?
<directhex> actually, let me try it locally
<directhex> erk, what a funny build system
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/78366/
<james_w> yeah, it's stupid
 * Laney munches cookies
<Laney> Dare I brave f-spot?
<directhex> Laney, i'd coordinate that with whoever's most used to man-handling it
<Laney> mm, there's a few people who have worked on it
 * Laney takes a peek
 * Laney screams
<directhex> james_w, very strange build problem, but if adding that build-dep fixes it, then just do it & walk away slowly :)
<directhex> Laney, there are worse packages than f-spot, that's the scary bit
<directhex> Laney, if you really want to peek inside the mind of cthulu, then the package to look at is ikvm
<directhex> worse than OOo ^_^
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I'll pour myself a stiff drink first
<directhex> ikvm is still a fascinating idea though
<laga> directhex: does it work?
<directhex> java compiler for CIL, that's sorta cool. java bytecode interpreterish for CIL, that's very cool
<directhex> laga, i have used it in the past
<directhex> laga, literally a couple of years ago
<laga> ah, so it's somewhat mature (hopefully)
<laga> i like java. i really do.
<directhex> laga, it works by... um... well, a rather chunky GNU.Classpath.dll assembly, iirc
<directhex> laga, it's quite mad :)
<ma10> question: I'm restructuring a package, "package" is becoming package-common + package, with package-common holding most of the stuff previously in package. How can I ensure the update will go smoothly? Is it ok to declare Breaks: package (< version) and Replaces: package (< version) in package-common? Of is Replaces: enough?
<directhex> ma10, surely is package depends on package-common, there's no problem?
<ma10> directhex: yes, it depends on it, but then when package-common gets installed it conflicts with the files still installed by the old "package"
<directhex> ah. hm.
<Laney> ma10: I think the usual solution is to make package-common Conflict/Replace oldpackge (<< version-which-last-shipped-the-file)
<james_w> ma10: not breaks, but Conflicts as Laney says
<james_w> but "<< version-that-moves-the-files"
 * Laney defers
<Laney> I've seen a page about this before, but couldn't find it
<ma10> oh but the debian policy says _not_ to use Conflicts: for this situation
<ma10> I'll try with just Replaces: and see how it works
<james_w> where does it say that?
<ma10> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-conflicts here
<ma10> A Conflicts entry should almost never have an "earlier than" version clause. .....
<james_w> yeah
<ma10> and also in the Replaces sections it says that Conflicts: + Replaces: is only to be used when the old package has to be completely substituted
<jdong> so Breaks is the correct field to use in this case?
 * jdong has to go through a similar transition for a package
<ma10> jdong: that's what i understand, the manual makes no examples at all. Or maybe just Replaces: is enough
<jdong> replaces I don't think is enough.
<jdong> before we used to use conflicts to do this.
<jdong> but apparently by new policy we should use Breaks.
<jdong> at this point I'm just guessing too
<ma10> i'll have to try every combination i guess
<jdong> well what works isn't the issue here
<jdong> it's what is the correct convention for consistency
<jdong> I am willing to bet a lot of combinations of breaks/conflicts/replaces will "work"
<ma10> yeah right
<jdong> perhaps fire something off to the -devel list
<james_w> Breaks is new
<james_w> so it can be done without it at least :-)
<ma10> i'll do some research first.. i don't want ppl telling me RTFM :)
<directhex> autopano-sift is odd. i wonder why it build-depends on winforms
<james_w> I'm pretty sure it's Conflicts/Replaces despite what policy says
<james_w> directhex: there is a directory called autopano-win32
<jdong> james_w: well the policy seems to strongly imply it prefers breaks to conflicts+replaces
<james_w> directhex: I didn't look any deeper :-)
<jdong> before reading that, I wwas sure the answer was conf+replace too
<james_w> jdong: yeah, but you can't even use Breaks in Debian yet
<jdong> well in Ubuntu it's been used pretty extensively already
<james_w> yup
<directhex> james_w, well, tek-nik-ly doing a per-os gui on top of generic internals is fine - even a good idea for native look & feel.
<jdong> yeah I'm not a very opinionated one for policy
<jdong> hence the suggestion to hit the mailing list and catch the attention of someone who is :)
<james_w> directhex: yeah, but does it need to build it on linux? :-)
<ma10> i'll see how packages with the same structure do it
<directhex> james_w, the package has no binary deps on it, so... no idea o_o
<ma10> jdong: btw, sorry for being a little absent lately. I got this new job and it's keeping me quite busy..
<directhex> wait a sec.....
<james_w> yay, adding a configure check that sets MCS and then using a completely different variable as your compiler \o/
<directhex> 		-target:winexe -out:autopano-win32.exe \
<directhex> it COMPILES the windows version!
<ma10> i would have liked to release the fixes for azureus much earlier
<directhex> james_w, another one? sad really isn't it o_o
<directhex> james_w, well, it seems the windows gui runs. it looks like poop, but it runs ;)
<james_w> directhex: is it installed in the package?
<directhex> james_w, no
<james_w> good :-)
<mok0> directhex: looks like poop? Well then it matches the default theme ;-P
<directhex> james_w, it'd be good if someone at some point (i.e. not a priority) removed the winforms bit from the build
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> it already has code conditional on the platform, but doesn't conditionalise that
<directhex> o_o
<james_w> directhex: ugh, got a build failure now apparently due to two cairo-cils being installed
<directhex> james_w, muinescrobbler again?
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/78378/
<james_w> nope that worked fine strangely
<james_w> sysinfo
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Can someone sponsor or review the debdiff I attached to bug #285674. It would allow to close 2 bugs (and it uses autopano :-) )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285674 in hugin "[Merge request]Please merge Hugin 0.7.0-1 from Debian Experimental" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285674
 * james_w goes to eat dinner
<mok0> fabrice_sp: I'll bite
<rawler> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tetzle <.- awaiting comments / approval
<directhex> james_w, perhaps find a way to make the "-r:/usr/lib/mono/1.0/Mono.Cairo.dll" turn into "-r:/usr/lib/mono/2.0/Mono.Cairo.dll"? i suspect it doesn't help that there's no pkg-config file for mono-cairo 2.0
<mok0> fabrice_sp: it's from experimental
<fabrice_sp> mok0: by the way, I fixed the dvdstyler package you reviewed before
<directhex> fabrice_sp, what is hugin?
<mok0> fabrice_sp: great, I'll take a look later
<fabrice_sp> mok0: yes, but I have it since a quite long time in my PPA, and at least 6 users reports
<fabrice_sp> it's a software that allows you to 'paste' several pictures and make a panoramic picture
<directhex> fabrice_sp, so is autopano-sift, and james_w just uploaded a new version of that ;)
<fabrice_sp> and it's using autopano to detect the common points
<fabrice_sp> directhex: yes: that's why I emember that this bug was stil lwaiting :-)
<fabrice_sp> s/emember/remember/
<mok0> fabrice_sp: quite a few changes from the svn3191 version...
<fabrice_sp> mok0: it's basically a bug fixing release, so no big updates
<mok0> fabrice_sp: bugfix release? 266 files changed
<directhex> mok0, 266 bugs :)
<mok0> heh
<fabrice_sp> mok0: really? Wow
<mok0> fabrice_sp: your debdiff looks sane though :-)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: what is autopane btw?
<fabrice_sp> mok0: thanks :-) You mean autopano, right?
<mok0> fabrice_sp: yes...
<mok0> never mind
<fabrice_sp> It's an app that find common parts in 2 pictures, to merge them after
<fabrice_sp> this is what make hugin more automatic
<mgdm> hugin \o/
<fabrice_sp> yes :-)
<mok0> fabrice_sp: ... and autopano-complete vs. autopano-sift-c ??
<fabrice_sp> mok0: autopano-complete is the script name that launch this mono app
<mok0> fabrice_sp: I am trying to figure out what justifies our establishes a new Ubuntu delta, that's all...
<mok0> s/estabilshes/establishing/
<fabrice_sp> mok0: np :-) autopano-sift-c doesn't exist in Ubuntu.
<mok0> fabrice_sp: oh, that's a very good reason :-)
<fabrice_sp> as it's a mono app, it's not within Debian, and they left the windows name of the app
<mok0> fabrice_sp: how ironic, me who hate mono apps and think they should be banished from Ubuntu :-D
<fabrice_sp> mok0: arghhh :-D
<mok0> fabrice_sp: well, to my dismay the package looks good. Uploading...
<fabrice_sp> this change would close the second bug (bug #162575)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 162575 in hugin "autopano null value at MultiMatch.LoadKeysets" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162575
<fabrice_sp> thanks mok0 :-)
<james_w> directhex: yeah, the problem is that mono-cairo 1.0 has a pkg-config file, while 2.0 doesn't
<directhex> i wonder why.
<james_w> um, did we completely miss the MOTU meeting?
<Laney> Looks so
<tonyyarusso> Say, debuild isn't finding my secret key for gpg, yet gpg --list-secret-keys shows it.  What's likely my problem?
<Laney> Do the details in the changelog match those in the key?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<tonyyarusso> Laney: the key has "Anthony Yarusso (tonyyarusso) <tonyyarusso@ubuntu.com>" and the changelog has "Anthony Yarusso <tonyyarusso@ubuntu.com>" - I don't see any typos, but sometimes I'm just blind.
<james_w> "(tonyyarusso)"
<james_w> they are not byte-for-byte identical, so it doesn't work automatically
<james_w> you can add a uid, change the changelog, or use -k
<tonyyarusso> oh really?  I didn't know it checked the nickname things.
<tonyyarusso> -k, that's what I did before.  Thanks.
<mok0> tonyyarusso: it just does a string compare
<tonyyarusso> nice.  Thought it was a bit smarter I guess.
<Laney> :(
<Laney> gmcs all over f-spot
<Laney> Oh, wait. I think I found it
<directhex> Laney, iirc f-spot uses both gmcs and mcs o_o
<Laney> hardcoded in Makefile.include for some reason
<Laney> Right. This is going to be it.
<Laney> woohoo!
<directhex> Laney, f-spot is one where you really need to update the debian wiki, to avoid duplication ;)
<directhex> or at least mail the ML
<Laney> I did put my name next to it
<james_w> directhex: why is cowbell not done? :-)
<directhex> james_w, i got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell :|
<directhex> james_w, i''l do it. i should have by now
<directhex> assuming it's pkg-cli-apps
<directhex> yeah, i'll svn ci
<tonyyarusso> Is it possible to search all LP PPAs to see if someone's packaged a particular application?
<ma10> tonyyarusso: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<tonyyarusso> ma10: thanks
<directhex> o_o @ https://launchpad.net/~mono-edge/+archive
<RAOF> 2.2 isn't actually released yet, is it?
<directhex> no
<directhex> i hope it's not based on 1.9.1 packaging or it's game over for anyone using that repo post-intrepid
<directhex> o_o
<directhex> native archives? srsly?
<RAOF> The fact that it's accidentally a native package doesn't raise confidence.
<directhex> it DOES seem to have been based on 2.0.1 packaging though
<directhex> so it could be worse
<RAOF> What are the new binaries generated by 2.2 going to be?
<directhex> RAOF, the csharp shell... monodoc has been merged into mono... mono.simd... a few other bits
<RAOF> Ah, yeah.
<directhex> okay, looking at the changelog, he's snapshotted 2.0-1 from incoming, then done some rather odd things
<directhex> mono (2.0.1-1~ppa2) intrepid; urgency=low
<directhex>   * Replace System.Data.Linq with the SoC project
<directhex> mono (2.0.1-1~ppa4) intrepid; urgency=low
<directhex>   * Use SDL from the atushi-200810 branch
<RAOF> Where does mono use SDL?
<nellery> If I want to request a sync, and a package's newest version is in experimental, though there are newer ones in unstable, which would I request?
<directhex> system.data.linq
<directhex> nellery, which do you want?
<RAOF> Ah.  Not Simple Directmedia Layer :)
<nellery> directhex: I know the unstable version builds fine, but I haven't tested the experimental one
<RAOF> It's important to know /why/ the package is in experimental.  It could be there because they don't want to block updates to Lenny with new upstream versions.  It could be there because they expect it to be broken. :)
<nellery> It's not mentioned in the changelog, but the main change is a new upstream release.
<directhex> it could be there for fun! 8D
<tonyyarusso> If an application is crashing on startup to to a buffer overflow, how can I capture that output to a file in bash?  (the basic > doesn't do it; can't remember the other options)
<tonyyarusso> *due to a
<RAOF> 2>&1 should dupe stderr to stdout, which would make a later > redirect properly.
<tonyyarusso> RAOF: so, programname 2>&1 > logfile ?
<RAOF> Yah.
<RAOF> You might want to check the syntax; it could be 2&>1.  I always get that mixed up :)
<mgdm> No, it's 2>&1
<tonyyarusso> Still nothing - empty file.
<mgdm> try "programname > file 2>&1"
<mgdm> it's a little funny about the positioning of the 2>&1 bit sometimes
<tonyyarusso> Okay, that put *something* in the file, but all it is is the text "Aborted", not the backtrace info that was printed on the terminal.
<mgdm> OK, try "programname > file 2> errorfile"
<mgdm> that should make 2 files
<tonyyarusso> mgdm: file is empty, errorfile is "Aborted".
<mgdm> "Hmm".
<tonyyarusso> is there a 3?  :P
<tonyyarusso> Someone elsewhere suggested that it could be the shell itself that is printing that information, not the program.
<stdin> there can be hundreds
<nellery> what package is 'apt-get moo' from?
<stdin> nellery: apt
<nellery> ahh that's what '-h' refers to
<mgdm> tonyyarusso: that's possible, I suppose
<eMerzh> if a motu or otherone has time to review my package ...http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sqliteman
<awmcclain> If you're trying to test a package that runs a daemon, what do you do? Login to pbuilder or some other chroot? Create a virtualized machine which you scrap after you test?
<james_w> directhex: am I correct that mono-gac should be dropped from Build-Depends as mono-devel provides gacutil now?
<james_w> directhex: no I am not :-)
<Laney> james_w: Is mono-devel => mono-2.0-devl => mono-2.0-gac not enough?
<Laney> Or is gacutil specifically in mono-gac?
<james_w> gacutil is in mono-gac
<james_w> gacutil2 is in mono-2.0-gac
<james_w> and if it requires gacutil it should directly depend on whatever requires it
<directhex> james_w, mono-devel should pull in the default gacutil
<directhex> james_w, gacutil2 is one of the few things we managed to pressure upstream into providing for us - gacutil generally is used to register a library as being available for apps to arbitrarily use - but as a CLI binary, we had the silly situation where you'd need all of the 1.0 corlib and 1.0 System.dll just to run gacutil
<Laney> bah
<Laney> No applications ever respect the configure args
 * Laney stomps around
<james_w> Laney: funny, all the ones I've done do :-)
<Laney> :O
<Laney> I always get "checking for gmcs... /usr/bin/csc", and then further down they still use gmcs
<TheMuso> Its mono. What do you expect?
<james_w> I doubt it is a phenomenon specific to mono
<directhex> yeah. what about portable.net's c# compiler? :o
<Laney> we should have a mono transition BSP ;)
<Laney> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/78491/
<Laney> why :(
<james_w> heh
<RAOF> Laney: You're looking at mirage, I guess?
<Laney> RAOF: yessir
<RAOF> You're confident you've got it?
<Laney> I haven't got it yet
<Laney> busy moaning
<RAOF> I've got a patch that should work, soon.
<Laney> oh, over to you then
<Laney> Claim it on the wiki please
<RAOF> Oh, there's claiming on wikis?
<Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianMonoGroup/Mono20TransitionTODO
<Laney> your name is next to something already :O
<RAOF> Hm.  I wonder whether I've got a login for that wiki :){
<Laney> RAOF: I just did it for fun anyway. Change build/build.mk and Test/Makefile.am to use $(GMCS), right?
<RAOF> Well, you could do it that way, yes.
<RAOF> I was getting it to set MCS correctly, but using $(GMCS) is perfectly acceptible.
<RAOF> Laney: You upload, I'll send a patch upstream.
<Laney> Hm, it's not even in Jaunty yet.
<RAOF> Correct.
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-23
<pmatulis> kom
<pmatulis> i'm settin up a (jaunty) server for building packages for multiple releases and archs.  what is the recommended way for doing that?
<RAOF> pmatulis: Both sbuild & pbuilder will do what you want, depending on how many archs "multiple" is.
<pmatulis> RAOF: yet i do not want to install dependencies on my main host, i'd rather keep them contained.  is schroot (+pbuilder) what i'm after?
<pmatulis> RAOF: archs would just be x86_32 and x86_64
<hyperair> sbuild and pbuilder both install dependencies in a chroot and build the package
<RAOF> pmatulis: Yeah, both sbuild & pbuilder build in a chroot.
<adama> what does x86_32 mean?
<hyperair> after building, the temporary installation is wiped clean
<adama> i386? or more specific?
<RAOF> adama: It's a longhand, nonstandard way of writing IA32
<adama> that doesn't answer my question
<adama> does it mean i386, or something more specific?
<RAOF> Yes, it means what Debian & Ubuntu call "i386"
<pmatulis> hmm, so as a test i tried to build a gnome app on my server and naturally i'm missing libraries
<pmatulis> if i install them they are going to be on my system permanently no?
<RAOF> Yes.
<pmatulis> there you go, i'd rather avoid that
<RAOF> So, you build the package with pbuilder or sbuild, which will build in a chroot for you.
<adama> if only we had some mechanism to remove installed packages...
<pmatulis> RAOF: yes, i used pdebuild
<RAOF> pmatulis: Then your package is likely buggy.
<RAOF> pbuilder will install all the dependencies you list as build-dependencies; if you package doesn't build because of a missing dependency, then you need to add it :)
<pmatulis> RAOF: ok, and they are listed where?
<RAOF> In particular, pbuilder cannot automatically determine what dependencies are required; I suspect the halting problem is reducible to that problem :)
<RAOF> pmatulis: debian/control - Build-Depends
<pmatulis> RAOF: ok, will look
<lifeless> and build-depends-indep
<pmatulis> RAOF: btw, i originally wanted sbuild but i got an error about a missing module (dm_snapshot?)
<RAOF> Yeah, but hardly anyone has any build-depends-indep.  Arch-indep languages are, apparently, for the weak.
<RAOF> pmatulis: That requires that you're using lvm, and have a bunch of free space in one of your VGs; unless you've deliberately set up your system for it, it's unlikely that you'll have accidentally got something that works.
<pmatulis> RAOF: yes, i had space on my vg
<RAOF> I think that mk-sbuild-lv.sh from ubuntu-dev-tools will actually load dm_snapshot if necessary.
<RAOF> But I no longer use sbuild, because I've found it easier to build in a tmpfs with pbuilder.
<pmatulis> RAOF: ok, thanks for the tips
<pmatulis> RAOF: sorry, but the missing deps are indeed listed in the control file
<RAOF> Then it's time for you to post a buildlog & the control file to a pastebin.
<pmatulis> RAOF: http://pastebin.ca/1683208
<RAOF> pmatulis: Aaah.  You don't have dpatch installed.  Since this is required when building a source package, you must install it.
<pmatulis> RAOF: hmm
 * RAOF has another look at that control file, and wonders what happened in dpatch version 1.21
<pmatulis> k, something is happening over here  :)
<mrooney> haha, lintian told me that both my postinst script was empty and ignored errors
<mrooney> those warnings seem a little silly together
<lifeless> plausible ;)
<mannyv> StevenK, around?
<StevenK> mannyv: Somewhat
<mannyv> StevenK, I have modified my local version of requestsync so that I can specify a build log as an attachment when using the launchpad api, is that a patch you would be interested in?
<mannyv> also i have modified grab-merge a little because it would sometimes try and grab the same source tar file several times if there are multiple entries for it in REPORT, now it checks to make sure the file doesnt exist before downloading
<StevenK> To be honest, I don't maintain requestsync, it's maintained in a bzr branch, so I would make your changes in a branch and request a merge
<mannyv> oh ok for some reason i had the impression it was you
<mannyv> ok well i was going to do that i just figured i would scope out interest first, but I guess I can do it in the opposite order =)
<mannyv> now im off to bed, good night
<fabrice_sp> Hi. buildX versions will be autosync in lucid, right?
<RAOF> Should be, yes.  IIRC those are special-cased by the autosync.
<fabrice_sp> that was also my impression. Will invalidated bug 486393 then. Thanks RAOF
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486393 in libsfml "Sync libsfml 1.5+repack1-2 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486393
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<siretart`> hi \sh
<ghostcube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/466935
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 466935 in linux "No Video Output in Karmic with ID 046d:09a1 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Communicate MP/S5500" [Undecided,Triaged]
<ghostcube> anyone able to check this
<ghostcube> still there and nothing changed
<micahg> ghostcube: triaged means it's ready for a developer to look at, not that it's fixed
<ghostcube> micahg: i know
<ghostcube> i meant nothing changed in my settings
<micahg> ghostcube: you'll want to check in #ubuntu-kernel
<ghostcube> heh i had bothered them too i just thought anyone can confirm this
<ghostcube> on an logitech
<micahg> ghostcube: one of the maintainers already confirmed
<micahg> that's why it was reopened
<ghostcube> :)
<AnAnt> LucidFox: Hello, did you try TL2009 ?
<LucidFox> I did, yes.
<AnAnt> how did it go with you ?
<LucidFox> I still need to download texlive-latex-extra to verify my test document. It wants a .sty file apparently present there.
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> I found that epstopdf is gone !
<LucidFox> It compiled with the official distribution before, so I'll compare the output with the Debian version.
<LucidFox> Weird, I have epstopdf installed.
<AnAnt> did you upgrade texlive-extra-utils ?
<LucidFox> I didn't have the old texlive installed by default.
<AnAnt> hmm, wierd
<LucidFox> sikon@maia-desktop:~$ dpkg -S `which epstopdf`
<LucidFox> texlive-font-utils: /usr/bin/epstopdf
<LucidFox> sikon@maia-desktop:~$ dpkg -s texlive-font-utils | grep Version
<LucidFox> Version: 2009-1
<AnAnt> ah, ok
<AnAnt> thanks
<LucidFox> Is there a more intuitive way to open manpages in yelp than Alt-F2 -> yelp man:<topic>?
<highvoltage> (I guess "typing 'man topic' into a terminal" is not what you want to hear)
<AnAnt> can you do a: dpkg -S `which texdoc` ?
<LucidFox> highvoltage> I prefer GUI.
<LucidFox> texlive-base: /usr/bin/texdoc
<slytherin> LucidFox: type man topic in the search field in yelp.
<LucidFox> I know about that, but yelp needs to be started for that. :)
<LucidFox> When I just type man:<topic> in Alt-F2, yelp says that man:///topic cannot be opened.
<slytherin> LucidFox: oh, so you want yelp to register a url handler for manpages?
<LucidFox> It already is, just bugged, apparently.
<LucidFox> At least from Alt-F2. It opens from Firefox without problems.
<LucidFox> Looks like a bug in gnome-panel.
<hyperair> gnome-help man:///irssi
<hyperair> indeed that is
<highvoltage> YDdraigGoch: I think you mean gnome-help man:irssi ?
<highvoltage> sorry, I aimed that at hyperair
<hyperair> highvoltage: sorry, i wasn't clear.
<hyperair> highvoltage: i mean that's what gnome-panel launched.
<hyperair> highvoltage: try it. alt+f2, type man:something, and then with yelp still open, ps -ef | grep gnome-help
<hyperair> highvoltage: gnome-panel is adding unnecessary /s
<highvoltage> hyperair: ah I see
<AnAnt> LucidFox: did you try hyperref package ?
 * LucidFox shakes her head
<AnAnt> ok
<LucidFox> Shame unicode-math isn't distributed.
<slytherin> Can any java expert help to solve this problem - http://paste.ubuntu.com/326018/ ?
<Crusher`> slytherin: it doesn't know what method you are trying to call, so you have to cast null to either the certificate or codesigner so it knows which method you are trying to use
<LucidFox> slytherin> There are two overloaded methods, and the compiler doesn't know which one to use.
<LucidFox> What's with autosync?
<LucidFox> Some packages seem to never be updated.
<siretart`> LucidFox: there is a blacklist for the auto-sync. perhaps its listed there?
<LucidFox> I mean in lucid. dbus-c++ and x11vnc, for example, are not even in NEW.
<LucidFox> Even though they were added to Debian before the lucid cycle, and they're not in the blacklist.
<slytherin> LucidFox: Crusher`: I understood that. But I don't know how to cast null to some type.
<Crusher`> slytherin: new CodeSource(thisURL, (java.security.cert.Certificate[]) null);
<slytherin> Crusher`: Oh, that simple. I didn't know that. :-(
<Crusher`> slytherin: hehe, its all part of learning :)
<siretart`> LucidFox: you should probbly ask that pitti or seb128 in #ubuntu-devel
 * LucidFox nods
<siretart`> LucidFox: if these packages are already in dpkg source v3 format, then that's the reason
 * LucidFox checks
<LucidFox> Could be, didn't check.
<LucidFox> dbus-c++ isn't. I'll ask.
<LucidFox> Neither is x11vnc
<LucidFox> On an unrelated note, why is ttf-droid not in Debian? License issues?
<LucidFox> Hmm, there's an ITP for it... *reads*
<geser> was the import of new packages in Debian already run for lucid?
<siretart`> geser: please ask in #ubuntu-devel
<geser> I'll let the archive admins clear the current NEW queue first before asking for more
<flower> how do I backport packages for 64bit on 32bit?
<\sh> for i in i386 amd64 ; do build lucid $i my-package_verson-release.dsc ; done ,)
<geser> flower: you have a 32bit system and want to build a package for a 64bit system?
<flower> geser: right
<geser> you need a 64bit pbuilder (or similar where you can build 64bit packages) and your kernel needs to be able to run 64bit programs which the 32bit kernel can't
<ghostcube> geser: i may check this evening the source aof arista video transcoder
<ghostcube> to see wheere it calls this stupid icon
<ghostcube> and if i can set an ghost one
<ghostcube> have i mentioned i luv the one packaged libxine with jackd support in his ppa
<ghostcube> :D
<bddebian> Heya gang
<siretart`> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya siretart
<fmarl> hi guys, I need to talk to someone regards pyclutter-gtk and pyclutter-gst packaging.
<Elbrus> fmarl: you should just state your question, nobody now knows if they can help you...
<fmarl> With pyclutter 1.0 they need to be packaged separately
<fmarl> there's a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyclutter/+bug/437578
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437578 in pyclutter "python-clutter-gtk needs to be packaged seperately" [Undecided,New]
<fmarl> I've made some work to get it fixed but i need some help.
<Elbrus> you do this for Debian?
<Elbrus> see comment 1
<fmarl> Elbrus, no i'm just a programmer for a project that needs them
<dtchen> bddebian: hi, do you have any opposition to just backporting the ALSA and pulse bits (src/audio/{alsa,pulse}) from 1.2.14 into the existing libsdl source package?
<fmarl> project name is Entertainer
<Elbrus> so is this private packaging or for Ubuntu?
<fmarl> Elbrus, the goal should be to push these packages at least to Ubuntu
<Elbrus> it is better to start at Debian
<fmarl> Elbrus, yeah I know.
<Elbrus> it doesn't even have this bug reported as far as I can tell
<bddebian> dtchen: Probably not
<Elbrus> so whatever you figure out for the packaging, at least (also) submit it in the debian bugtracker (and link launchpad to it)
<fmarl> Elbrus, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=505918
<ubottu> Debian bug 505918 in python-clutter "python-clutter: cannot use cluttergtk" [Important,Fixed]
<Elbrus> so now your real question I guess
<dtchen> bddebian: anyhow I already did it while chasing an alsa-plugins bug :-)
<dtchen> bddebian: didn't ask for it to be sponsored into Ubuntu yet because I wanted to check with you about plans for libsdl in Debian
<dtchen> cos it, uh, explodes the delta, understandably
<Elbrus> fmarl: is there already a RFP bug?
<fmarl> Elbrus, I don't know,probably not
<Elbrus> and you are packing those?
<fmarl> Elbrus, mine is an attempt
<fmarl> Elbrus, https://code.launchpad.net/~francesco-marella/+junk/pyclutter-gtk
<fmarl> https://code.launchpad.net/~francesco-marella/+junk/pyclutter-gst
<bddebian> dtchen: Well I'm up for just about anything but the other members of the "team" aren't all that responsive. :(
<Elbrus> fmarl: better start asking your real question I guess... I see the code but what is the problem
<fmarl> Elbrus, there's someone here that can take this job?
<Elbrus> which job, helping you?
<Whoopie> jdong, siretart: Hi, now that we have a new VLC in lucid, could we do the SRU for karmic?
<fmarl> job = review my work or start from scratch, submit it to debian
<fmarl> Elbrus, sorry i'm not native-english
<Elbrus> you could attach your packaging to the launchapd bug and mark it as a patch
<Elbrus> better, if you are willing to maintain it, file a bug at debian (a ITP against the wnpp package)
<fmarl> Elbrus, ok i'll do it
<Elbrus> and search for a sponsor at mentors.debian.net / mentors@lists.debian.org
<Elbrus> (please read the documentation at mentors.d.n first)
<fmarl> Elbrus, to much work for a lazy programmer.. :p
<Elbrus> well, you SHOULD file a bug at Debian than with RFP against wnpp with the packaging attached)
<Elbrus> at least
<Elbrus> and link the debian and ubuntu bugs to eachother
<fmarl> Elbrus, ah ok
<Elbrus> np
<fmarl> Elbrus, thanks.
<siretart`> Whoopie: I'm not in the SRU team, and I don't have the overview what bugs have been closed from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3
<Whoopie> siretart`: I'm talking about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/481448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481448 in vlc "VLC lacks build-dep on libupnp3-dev" [Undecided,New]
<jdong> Whoopie: prep a debdiff for review and I'll take a look in an hour
<Whoopie> jdong: it's already in the bug report
<jdong> you've got an ACK
<jdong> edit the description of the bug with SRU verification procedures
<Whoopie> jdong: where to find an example?
<jdong> Whoopie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
<Whoopie> jdong: do I have to upload it to karmic-proposed?
<ScottK> Whoopie: You need a MOTU to do that.
<Whoopie> ScottK: ok, thanks
<waver_> hi guys, I want to push this package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hiawatha ) to Ubuntu
<ScottK> waver_: If you are really interested in the package, you might want to consider getting it into Ubuntu via Debian and maintaining it there.  See mentors.debian.net for details on how.
<waver_> Thanks ScottK, I'll have a look
<ari-tczew> 8 requests left to 200 bugs in ubuntu-archive! yes!
<AndrewGee> Hi all. Any MOTUs available to review my package in REVU, and hopefully give the second advocation? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gpxviewer - Thanks :)
<dlm> hi all
<dlm> What is the requierement for became a MOTU ?
<ScottK> AndrewGee: If you are interested in maintaining the package, you might consider getting it into Ubuntu via Debian.  See mentors.debian.net for details.
<ari-tczew> dlm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<dlm> ari-tczew: Thanks
<ScottK> dlm: Also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu%20Developers%20%28MOTU%29
<dlm> Scottk: thanks for the link
 * jdong scratches his head at the addition of a patchsys in a SRU debdiff.
<ajmitch> that's not nearly as bad as switching to dh7-style debian/rules in a SRU
<jdong> hahahahaha
<jdong> well I suppose the patchsys won't hurt too much
<ajmitch> usually it's only a couple of lines, but it's still not the best thing to do :)
<jdong> yup
<ScottK> IIRC adding a patch system is explicitly discouraged in SRUs.
<ajmitch> something that the 3.0 (quilt) format is meant to help with once it's supported in LP :)
<ScottK> ajmitch: Right, any patch system you want as long as it's quilt.
<jdong> :)
<ajmitch> exactly
<ajmitch> though to be fair, there looks to be little interaction with quilt itself that you need to do
<ScottK> If there's no existing patch system, I think that's correct.
<ScottK> Although if you want to break your work into more than one patch, the way you do it is rebuild the source package.
<ScottK> Seems a bit heavy to me.
 * ajmitch stabs fetchmail
<ajmitch> I should really redirect my mail through somewhere more reliable
<highvoltage> hey ajmitch, how are things?
<ajmitch> good, how are you?
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, there?
<ari-tczew> anyone knows, whether can I do NMU in Debian only for update/add watch file?
<Laney> no
<ari-tczew> pfff sucks :P
<ajmitch> that's a pretty trivial change, NMUs should be for release-critical bugs
<highvoltage> ajmitch: also doing good thanks
<ari-tczew> but maintainers doesn't care a lot of them packages
<ajmitch> highvoltage: so did you manage to get to the latest UDS? :)
<av`> ari-tczew, yes, but doing an NMU for a watch file will probably get you
<av`> flamed
<ScottK> And whoever would sponsor it would get roasted too.
<ari-tczew> [19:56] <Laney> adding bureaucracy is not a way to encourage contribution
<ScottK> File a bug with a patch
<ari-tczew> ;-]
<Laney> debian has package maintainers
<ScottK> Debian has a different maintenance model than Ubuntu and NMUs for trivial fixes doesn't make sense
<azeem> if the package is in collab-maint, you can checkin a fix I guess
<ScottK> Yep.
<ari-tczew> if Debian has a policy such as Ubuntu, we could do a lot for DEHS statistics
<ajmitch> perhaps you could argue for it on debian-devel
<cjwatson> that sounds guaranteed to go badly ...
<ajmitch> it'd have about as much effect as discussing it here :)
 * jdong hopes ajmitch meant that in sarcasm ;-)
<jdong> the first statement, that is
<Stormx2> Hi guys. Can I ask why grip is no-longer packaged?
<ajmitch> was grip ever ported to gtk+ 2.0?
<highvoltage> ajmitch: I participated remotely, US visas take too long :/
<ajmitch> grip was removed from debian back in february, I believe removals from debian like that happen in ubuntu as well so that we don't carry too many old & unmaintained packages
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: i am here.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, about the libavg upgrade: why did you deleted the building of testplayer?
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: when i did pbuilder build, it was failing because it ran an automatic test which required the framebuffer.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, it wasn't possible to desactivate the test instead of desactivating the bianre?
<Stormx2> ajmitch: grip was gtk2 afaik
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: i could not find where to disable the test.
<fabrice_sp> also, I did some modifications, and now, I'm getting an error: dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library avg.so.0 needed by debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0 . Did yo uget this one also?
<fabrice_sp> anyway, I'm building the package with your debdiff right now (wihout my modifications)
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: yea, i got the same error when i built via pbuilder, i got around it by adding to .pbuilderrc: export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/libavg:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, ok: so you should have added that. or something similar in the debian/rules file
<fabrice_sp> also, lintian is complaining about a missing README.source. Please add it, and update the Standards-version to 3.8.3
<ari-tczew> fabrice_sp: is it not a Debian's package?
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, it's an orphaned Debian package
<fabrice_sp> why?
<ari-tczew> we could not update Standards-Version if package is delivering by Debian first, right?
<ari-tczew> but if it's orphaned package, ok
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: how to run the lintian command?  i just installed it.
<ari-tczew> debuild -us -uc and at the end you should see warnings
<fabrice_sp> or lintian <package.dsc>
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: also i am not sure where to update standards-version.
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, we should not update the standard-versions of  a debian pacakge, but in this case, it will become an ubuntu version (0ubuntu1), so yes
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: when i run lintian on the dsc i get: internal error: command failed with error code 2
<fcuk112> warning: could not unpack package to desired level
<fcuk112> warning: skipping check of source package libavg
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, could you paste the full command you are running?
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: lintian libavg_0.9.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
<ari-tczew> debian/control there you can bump Standards-Version
<fcuk112> ari-tczew: thanks, ok i updated it.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, can you pastebin the content of the dsc file?
<fabrice_sp> to be able to update the standards-version, you need to add a debian/REAME.source file, as there is a patch system
<fcuk112> http://pastie.org/711880
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: sorry what would the contents of debian/README.source be?
<av`> fabrice_sp, I don't think a README.Source is really needed
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, the dsc file seems good
<av`> if the patch system is either dpatch or quilt
<ari-tczew> av' +1
<fabrice_sp> av`, even with source format v1? The Debian policy still says that it's required
<av`> fabrice_sp, looks to me that paste / copying the dpatch / quilt example files is pretty useles
<av`> fabrice_sp, yes, someone proposed to remove its requirement for normal
<av`> patch systems already
<ari-tczew> what is connexion between Standards-Version and patchsystem?
<fabrice_sp> av`, I know it's useless, but for the moment, it still required by Debian policy, no?
<av`> actually the newer standards introduce new policies to follow
<av`> and one of them is the patch-system one fabrice_sp told you before
<av`> e.g adding a readme.source
<fabrice_sp> it was added in 3.8.3?
 * fabrice_sp looks at Debian polciy
<av`> fabrice_sp, yes, it is, but since the package won't go to debian for now, I wouldnt add it
<av`> fabrice_sp, don't remember
<mannyv> im looking at a package that we have had to merge for about 4 releases because the source tar ball is missing a COPYING file and we keep adding it in.
<mannyv> is this something I should talk with the debian maintainer about adding as well?
<mannyv> and maybe upstream or ?
<fabrice_sp> the README.source is recommended, not mandatory, so fcuk112, forget the READE.source file
<av`> fabrice_sp, yes
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, Should be upstream
<av`> fabrice_sp, it's a warning not an error
<av`> fabrice_sp, so it's up to the original maintainer
<fabrice_sp> av`, I know, but I've seen warnings becoming error in later version
<fabrice_sp> in this case, it's ok
<av`> I don't think this will ever be an error
<av`> :)
<fabrice_sp> not with source format V3 :-)
<av`> if not dak would reject tons of packages since it has lintian-based
<av`> auto-rejects now
<fabrice_sp> but I have to say that it should be mandatory for some non standard pacakges
<fabrice_sp> right
<av`> but yes, for particular packages would be nice to have
<fcuk112> ok
<av`> especially for NMUers
<fabrice_sp> right
 * mannyv swims upstream 
<fabrice_sp> or packages with source tarball inside the tarball
<fabrice_sp> :-/
<av`> like mozilla-extensions then
<av`> that ships a .xpi file into the tar.gz :)
<av`> but we have tools for that :)
<fabrice_sp> av`, sure about the tools, but for a newcommer to the package, patching it as... hmmm....complex
<av`> fabrice_sp, true, with tools I meant something like mozilla-devscripts
<av`> don't know if you ever worked with them
<fabrice_sp> av`, ohh yes :-) no: only saw them from far away
<av`> for mozilla-extensions-related-stuff of course
 * fabrice_sp avoids mozilla :-)
<av`> good for you :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> latelly, I only have time to review the sponsoring queue... :-)
 * fabrice_sp should take care of his sync/merges...
<av`> fabrice_sp, cleaning up the sponsoring queue is something great
<av`> so that contributors don't have their work dropped somewhere
<av`> so good work :)
<fabrice_sp> av`, it's great: it also a way to learn a lot of new stuff (and discover new packages) :)
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, about Bug #486181
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 486181 in piklab "Please Merge piklab 0.15.5-1 from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/486181
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, yeah?
<fabrice_sp> shouldn't we wait one week, when 0.15.7 lands in testing? And avoid doing 2 merges?
<fabrice_sp> (even if it's an easy one :-) )
 * mannyv has been cherry picking the easy ones 
<mannyv> yeah that makes sense
<mannyv> i didn't know that the new 0.15.7 would land in testing in 2 weeks
<mannyv> how do you know that so I can know in the future =) ?
<av`> mannyv, check the PTS :)
<av`> mannyv, it has all informations you may need
<fabrice_sp> a package in unstable, if everything is ok, lands in testing 10 days after
<fabrice_sp> PTS is your friend, yes :-)
<av`> mannyv, subscribe to a specific package and you gonna receive everything into your mail box!
<av`> sweet!
<mannyv> i checked in PTS
<fabrice_sp> Too young, only 4 of 10 days old
<mannyv> i jsut didint know when it moved from unstable to testing i guess
<av`> mannyv, which one?
<fabrice_sp> http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/piklab.html in this case
<mannyv> i see now, i just didnt know to look for that
<av`> yes, wanted to see what he meant for PTS
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<mannyv> av`, that is what i meant
<fabrice_sp> one day for agg :-)
<av`> fabrice_sp, already one day?
<av`> time pass so fast
<fabrice_sp> av`, my bad: only 1 of 10 days :-D
<mannyv> so does that mean if there is a higher version in unstable we should just always wait, provided we 10 days before DIF?
<av`> fabrice_sp, lol
<av`> looked to me a bit strange that was going to migrate already
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, if no serious bugs appears during that 10 days, yes
<av`> all squeeze goals should be ok
<av`> to migrate
<mannyv> ok that is good to know =)
<fabrice_sp> just too tired! That libavg upgrade + another merge killed me :-)
<av`> if the packages FTBFS on a squeeze release goal arch it won't migrate :)
<fabrice_sp> bed time. Bye all!
<av`> have a good night :)
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys. I;m merging a package and in Ubuntu we are adding -dev. So, since we are modifying configure.in, I have to rerun autogen.sh. So, if I'm already running autogen.sh do I have to add automake and libtool to Build-Deps?
<azeem> RoAkSoAx: does it build if you don't?
<RoAkSoAx> azeem, yes I believe so, but it shows a warning that there's no automake
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: the official way as far as I can tell is to regenerate locally and then create patch for source
<kklimonda> this way you don't have to add any additional dependencies
<ari-tczew> yes! seb128 is working on syncs! MOTU go ahead!
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, so I would just run autogen.sh again and then not add the dependecies on libtool and automake?
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, or... adding the dependencies, and not running autogen.sh?
<kklimonda> RoAkSoAx: again? you run it once, create diff between regenerated source and clean one and add it to debian/patches/
<RoAkSoAx> kklimonda, yeah but... do I still have to add automake and libtool as build-deps?
<kklimonda> no, the whole point of creating a patch locally is to avoid those dependencies
<av`> RoAkSoAx, no
<av`> RoAkSoAx, you gonna apply a patch, so no additional deps are needed
<av`> apart quilt or dpatch or whatever you use
<av`> if you use quilt, I would suggest you to give a try to quilt sheel
<av`> * quilt shell
<RoAkSoAx> av`, i was applying it directly because debian dropped the patchsystem and I'm not introducing one again
<av`> don't know how sane it is applying an autotools patch directl
<kklimonda> it's not
<kklimonda> applying anything outside of debian/ subdirectory currently isn't really sane imho
<av`> kklimonda, agreed, apart minor changes I'm with you
<av`> minor = really minor changes
<RoAkSoAx> so what would be your recommendation in this particular case?
<kklimonda> well, autotools related patches are huge so I'd restore patch system
<av`> adding a patch system
<av`> and using quilt shell
<kklimonda> (the patch for transmission is over 1MB)
<av`> if you want your life to be easier
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool, thanks for the tip :)
<av`> np :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-24
<LLStarks> hi.
<LLStarks> i was wondering how i would best go about requesting a change in dev trees for onscripter?
<dtchen> LLStarks: does it not appear in Debian testing's/unstable's 0.0.20091011-1 source package?
<LLStarks> it is.
<dtchen> meaning "it" does appear in that source package?
<LLStarks> but onscripter should be dumped in favor of mion's onscripter-en
<dtchen> has this proposal been discussed in Debian?
<LLStarks> no.
<LLStarks> how do i request a new package?
<RoAkSoAx> LLStarks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<LLStarks> for debian
<jdong> quassel needs a much more violently strobing systray icon
<jdong> but I fear I might be alone in this opinion
<JontheEchidna> konversation's has a nice violent red blink.
<micahg> LLStarks: this should get you started: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/
<Buuntu> will someone mentor me?  I tried emailing the mentor-mailing list but I haven't gotten a response in over a week
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, you might wanna ping nxvl or huats... prolly nobody answered because of the UDS
<RoAkSoAx> but you can start reading the packaging guide... don't get discouraged... sometimes it is hard to provide mentors to all of those people who want one
<Buuntu> RoAkSoAx, UDS? it doesn't seem like they're online
<Buuntu> RoAkSoAx, I've read through it
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, yes last week was the UDs
<Buuntu> RoAkSoAx, found it really confusing though so I wanted to get a mentor - just to get started mostly
<Buuntu> ubuntu development summit?
<ScottK> developers/development, but you have the basic idea
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, I started by myself then got a mentor :). Just start reading, if you read it is gonna help u get started when you get your mentor
<RoAkSoAx> heya ScottK how's it going
<Buuntu> RoAkSoAx, ehh, how can I contact nxvl or huats since they aren't online atm, just catch them at a later time or what?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: OK.  Still tired from UDS.
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, just try to find them online
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, yeah same here... but now i have so much stuff to do i can't rest :(
<Buuntu> nxvl, hey
<nxvl> hi...
<Buuntu> nxvl, RoAkSoAx said I should ping you because I'm interested in a mentor ^^
<nxvl> oh
<nxvl> yeah
<Buuntu> nxvl, I already tried emailing the mailing list but I didn't get a reply
<nxvl> send an e-mail to....
<nxvl> mmm, let me find the link
<nxvl> let me find your e-mail
<nxvl_> Buuntu: what's you real name?
<Buuntu> nxvl_, Gabriel Abud
<nxvl_> Buuntu: i don't see your e-mail inthere
<Buuntu> nxvl_, ubuntu-motu-mentors@something.com right?
<nxvl_> Buuntu: motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net
 * Buuntu doesn't remember exactly
<Buuntu> nxvl_, oh, I sent it to the wrong one then
<Buuntu> nxvl_, I used ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com, do you want me to resend it to the correct adress?
<nxvl_> Buuntu: let me check
<nxvl_> Buuntu: i don't see it there either
<Buuntu> nxvl_, lol, I'll resend it, which email should I send it to?
<nxvl_> Buuntu: motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net
<Buuntu> nxvl_, sent
<Buuntu> nxvl_, well?
<nxvl_> Buuntu: my e-mail is slow
<nxvl_> :D
<Buuntu> nxvl, ?
<nxvl> Buuntu: still don't see it
<Buuntu> nxvl, T_T
<Buuntu> nxvl, lol can I just copy and paste it to you?  I don't know why you're not getting it...
<nxvl> Buuntu: so, you have no experience and you don't know anything about packaging or ubuntu?
<Buuntu> nxvl, oh no, I know stuff about ubuntu
<nxvl> Buuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<Buuntu> nxvl, not about packaging though
<Buuntu> nxvl, yeah I read through some of that
<nxvl> Buuntu: read that, start in that package
<nxvl> ugh
<nxvl> start packaging and playing with it
<Buuntu> nxvl, got kind of confused though
<nxvl> as here then
<nxvl> ask*
<nxvl> the mentoring program is basically for the last mile on the process, not for the first one
<Buuntu> nxvl, ah
<Buuntu> nxvl, well I mean I get how to do it, but that guide doesn't really explain how it works
<nxvl> the guide is just that, a guide
<nxvl> for more information you need to read the debian Policy
<nxvl> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<nxvl> you can find more documentation here aswell: http://www.debian.org/devel/
<Buuntu> nxvl, how do you do this: "Apply the unzipped .diff.gz to the unpacked source directory. "
<Buuntu> nxvl, what does apply mean?
<nxvl> where is that?
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, patch -p1 < *.diff.gz
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, patch -p1 < name.diff.gz
<Buuntu> nxvl, 3.1 Packaging from Scratch of the complete guide
<Buuntu> nxvl, oh wait, I didn't read that - it was explaining what apt-get source does :P
<Buuntu> nxvl, sorry
<Buuntu> nxvl, what about this : dh_make -e your.maintainer@address, is that my email or what?
<nxvl> yup
<Buuntu> nxvl, what language do the files like rules use?  I wasn't aware that make was a programming language...
<nxvl> Buuntu: dash
<Buuntu> Buuntu, dash? hmm... never heard of it
<Buuntu> nxvl, Enter passphrase: gpg: gpg-agent is not available in this session?
<Buuntu> nxvl, I set up gpg with a passphrase though...
<HFSPLUS> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Hobbsee, Riddell, sladen, fbond, mneptok, gnomefreak, Seveas, dholbach, elkbuntu, PriceChild, or jpds!
<Hobbsee> sigh
<lifeless> Hobbsee: you know you want to
<Hobbsee> lifeless: which is why i just went to #freenode asking about a kline, yes
<lifeless> \o/
<Hobbsee> looks like someone was already onto it
<micahg> anyone want to sponsor a package?
<sladen> micahg: what is it, is it syncable from Debian?
<micahg> no, it's a u-u-s debdiff
<micahg> I wanted to get it into lucid, so I can get an SRU to karmic
<micahg> sladen: ^^^
<sladen> micahg: what's the diff/package?
<micahg> sladen: bug 477513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 477513 in uim "FireFox crashes routinely karmic i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/477513
<micahg> sladen: I made the upload for lucid, and the patch is from upstream, but the user never tested it
<micahg> should I have the user test the karmic version before I push the patch to lucid?
<micahg> or is upstreams commit good enough?
<sladen> gah, looking at this when I was about to go to bed was silly
<micahg> yeah, that's why I was wondering if there was a night owl here :)
<fabrice_sp> porthose__, about debian bug 557598: I think that the icons are the ones uuencoded in debian directory
<ubottu> Debian bug 557598 in xtide "xtide: Icons missing copyright information" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/557598
<fabrice_sp> WaVeR, waver_ got your email. What do you want exactly? :-)
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys anyone know how's it possible to make dh7 rerun autotools?
<fabrice_sp> mdbtools made it in override_dh_auto_configure
<fabrice_sp> RoAkSoAx, this is also what has been done in gshare by Laney
<fabrice_sp> you can have a look at those 2 pacakges
<RoAkSoAx> fabrice_sp, ok cool, i'll take a look at those packages. thanks for the tip
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-)
<porthose__> fabrice_sp, Ok, but the copyright information is still missing, so the is bug still relevant correct?  :)
<fabrice_sp> yes: it's only that in the Debian bug report, you mentioned other icons ;-)
<fabrice_sp> porthose__, ^
<porthose__> fabrice_sp, ok i will fix it :)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<porthose__> fabrice_sp, I am not a big emac user (just started playing with it) so no I am not sure that change is still needed, should I turn bug #485689 into a sync request?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485689 in nxml-mode "Please Merge nxml-mode 20041004-8 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485689
<fabrice_sp> porthose__, neither am I :-) it's only that I'm not been able to reproduce it, so I'm not sure the change is still required
<fabrice_sp> don't know also what is the future of emacs21 and emacs22, as we already have emacs23
<fabrice_sp> hhm: emacs21 is not packaged in lucid
<fabrice_sp> if we can get rid of emacs22, this package can be deleted also
<porthose__> IIRC nxml-mode is included in emacs23, hmm
<fabrice_sp> don't know the impact :-D
<fabrice_sp> yes
<fabrice_sp> emcas package is provided by emacs23 in lucid, so upgrade path seems to be covered
<fabrice_sp> "emacs package"
<porthose__> fabrice_sp, how about we wait on this until the fate of emacs22 is known, sound good :)
<fabrice_sp> porthose__, you can perhaps ping an archive admin, to have his opinion on removing emacs22. otherwise, emacs22 will still be in lucid :-)
<sladen> micahg: how long has that bug been going on;  is it also http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=377808
<ubottu> Debian bug 377808 in uim "uim can cause crash of X" [Normal,Open]
<sladen> micahg: is  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.5/+bug/440110  a dup aswell?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440110 in firefox-3.5 "Flash intermitently crashes FireFox 3.5" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<porthose__> fabrice_sp, ok I'll do that in the am, it's bed time for me night ;)
<fabrice_sp> good night porthose__ :-)
 * micahg is looking sladen
<micahg> sladen: the first debian bug doesn't seem to be it as it's too old
<micahg> that other LP bug does look like a dupe though
<micahg> sladen: oh, you pushed it, thanks
<micahg> should I prepare the SRU?
<sladen> micahg: go ahead, but you'll need to get somebody else, the patch is pretty simple
<micahg> ok, I'll follow the sru procedure, thanks for approving that
<micahg> sladen: ugh
<micahg> I thought I checked debian...seems they do have it
<micahg> in unstable
<micahg> slytherin: are you up for a question
<slytherin> tell me
<micahg> so, I thought I checked debian for a patch and ended up patching myself and geting the upload sponsered, but debian did have it in unstable
 * micahg mistook 1.5.6-2 for 1.5.6-0ubuntu2
<micahg> :)
<micahg> should I request a sync now to fix it?
<slytherin> Not a big deal. When Debian package gets migrated to testing, you can request a sync.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> I used the same patch number, just a different patch name
<slytherin> when you request sync, your changes are all going away, so patch name doesn't matter
<micahg> ok
<micahg> do I have to watch for it, or will it happen automatically?
<micahg> I jsut wanted to get an SRU to karmic
<slytherin> karmic? I thought you were talking about package in lucid.
<micahg> I already got the fix in Lucid, but only because that was on the SRU procedure
<micahg> that was the one that debian has the fix for and got someone to sponsor
<micahg> now I'm trying to finish getting the SRU into -proposed for karmic
<slytherin> Ok.
<micahg> I'm waiting for i386 and lpia to finish building in my ppa, then I'll upload the debdiff to the bug
<LucidFox> http://kernelslacker.livejournal.com/39760.html
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart`> hi dholbach - morning folks!
<dholbach> hi siretart`
<\sh> moins
<AndrewGee> Hi. Any MOTUs available to review my package with already one advocation? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gpxviewer - Thanks :)
<DktrKranz> AndrewGee: _o/
<AndrewGee> DktrKranz: Thanks :)
<Whoopie> jdong: Hi, why was the ticket assigned to me? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/481448
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481448 in vlc "VLC lacks build-dep on libupnp3-dev" [Undecided,New]
<DktrKranz> AndrewGee: commented
<AndrewGee> DktrKranz: Thanks :)
<waver_> Hi, any MOTUs available to review my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/hiawatha
<akheron> mine too: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson
<lfaraone> Hey, when I run "pbuilder create" on my 9.10 system, I get "Unknown distribution: karmic"
<lfaraone> Any idea why?
<slytherin> lfaraone: surprising
<cyphermox> lfaraone, are you in karmic?
<lfaraone> cyphermox, slytherin, yes, I'm running karmic.
<cyphermox> anything special in .pbuilderrc?
<lfaraone> cyphermox: not afaict. let me check
<lfaraone> cyphermox: nevermind, I was missing "karmic" in .pbuilderc
<cyphermox> lfaraone, in, say, UBUNTU_SUITES?
<cyphermox> lfaraone, because normally it doesn't need to be anywhere in .pbuilderrc -- that file could not exist and pbuilder still recognizes karmic as a valid distribution
<slytherin> lfaraone: Do you have correct version of debootstrap package installed?
<jldupont> I've got a small issue with a makefile: http://jldupont.pastebin.com/m395171f1
<jldupont> could someone help me?  I believe it is really simple, I just know some guru out here will figure out!
<azeem> jldupont: I think the clean rule in the upstream Makefile should not run "rm" unconditionally
<azeem> i.e., it should run "rm -f"
<jldupont> @azeem:  good point !  THANKS!
<jldupont> cyphermox: thanks to you too! (private reply)
<cyphermox> jldupont, you should post to the channel with all your stuff though, not just directly to me
<cyphermox> so that others can potentially benefit from it
<jldupont> cyphermox: you are totally right... my bad... I'll be more diligent next time!
<ari-tczew> is anybody here?
<slytherin> azeem: isn't 'rm -f' same as running rm unconditionally?
<slytherin> ari-tczew: lots of people are here.
<azeem> slytherin: it doesn't exit with failure if the file to remove does not exist AFAIK
<azeem> unconditionally was maybe the wrong term...
<ari-tczew> could someone review this bug 393923
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in agg "agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h missing #includes <limits.h> and <stdlib.h> so it doesn't compile on new GCC versions" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393923
<ari-tczew> is it need fix?
<azeem> ari-tczew: are you saying you attached a patch to the bug and want it reviewed?
<ari-tczew> no, I'm looking for answer, that whether this need patch, if it needs a patch, then I'll do debdiff
<lfaraone> cyphermox: yes, in UBUNTU_SUITES.
<alex-weeej> the CERN ROOT packages don't seem to include the Python bindings... does anyone know how to get them?
<alex-weeej> this is with root-system and libroot-python5.18...
<alex-weeej> the manifest for libroot-python5.18 doesn't seem to suggest it includes any python libraries...
<randomaction> what about libroot-python-dev?
<tseliot> hi all
<tseliot> the next meeting of the Motu council should take place on Friday, 26th November 2009, 17:00 UTC
<tseliot> but November 26 is on Thursday
<tseliot> what's the right date?
<ari-tczew> tseliot, #ubuntu-metting
<ari-tczew> now just someone is talking
<Laney> huh?
<Laney> he asked for the date
<tseliot> ari-tczew: yes, I'm there, but that's a DMB meeting
<tseliot> geser: ^^
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> tseliot: fixed, the 2nd meeting of a month is always on the 4th Thursday
<tseliot> geser: ok, thanks a lot
<ari-tczew> so 27th november?
<tseliot> ari-tczew: 26
<ari-tczew> ah thursday, right,
<geser> according to my calender the 4th Thursday is on Nov 26
<ari-tczew> I'm pretty tired today
<ari-tczew> If I want to candidate to member of MOTU, can I request this 26th thursday?
<maco> ari-tczew: you're supposed to put in a week in advance
<ari-tczew> maco, thanks
<ari-tczew> so I'll do another once
<iulian> bddebian: Hello.
<geser> ari-tczew: the MC could process you on Fri, Dec 11th if you apply till Dec 4th
<ari-tczew> where can I apply this?
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<geser> ari-tczew: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Applying
<al-maisan> Hello there! Quick question: are there any rules re. the age of files that comprise a package?
<al-maisan> One of geser's packages was rejected by Soyuz because the files therein had "Thu Jan  1 10:13:08 1970" time stamps
<al-maisan> just trying to figure out whether this is a Soyuz bug or an issue with his package
<al-maisan> The package in question is upload php-auth_1.6.2-1, see also: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36001574/upload_1361070_log.txt
<ScottK> I can't imagine those time stamps being correct, so I'd be cursious how they got that way?
<al-maisan> geser: can you elaborate please?
<Laney> I can imagine it happening with tar -mtime in conjunction with a get-orig-source rule to make it deterministic
<ScottK> al-maisan: 1970 being described as 'in the future' is clearly wrong in any case.
<al-maisan> ScottK: yes, I acknowledged that as a bug already.
<ScottK> OK.
<RoAkSoAx> pkern, what are your feelings about changing the localization to US rather than UK (bug #485408)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485408 in gobby "en_US users see en_UK spellings" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485408
<jldupont> Anyone using the Bazaar plugin under Eclipse?  How can I "ignore" a file from a directory under revision control ?
<geser> ScottK: one moment, I've to look at the package (php-auth; imported from Debian)
<geser> ScottK: they are already in the upstream tarball: http://download.pear.php.net/package/Auth-1.6.2.tgz
<geser> the interesting fact is, that the Debian deb has all timestamps current while I could reproduce this timestamps in my lucid pbuilder
<ScottK> Weird
<geser> as the package is arch:all I can't check the Debian buildd log :(
<geser> rebuilding the package in a lenny pbuilder shows the same timestamps (from 1970)
<ScottK> It might be worth a mail to the Debian maintainer to ask him how he builds the package.
<ScottK> Some of them have 'unique' approaches for arch all packages.  My favorite being the one where the maintainer's home directory name was hard encoded in the maintainerscripts.
 * geser hopes Debian starts rebuilding arch:all packages soon upon upload
<EzraR> ScottK: are you familiar with the automake/python.my problem with dist-packages vs site-packages?
<EzraR> python.m4 rather
<ScottK> EzraR: Not really.  It's pretty easy to fix these things when distutils is used.  Possibly the easiest thing to do is just move everything in debian/rules.
<EzraR> ScottK: yeah pycentral i believe does that automaticlly...the problem with this particular package is it uses the value with sed to change the source
<EzraR> pycentral does not fix that
<ScottK> I don't have an easy suggestion for you and no time to review it in depth now.  Sorry.
<EzraR> ScottK: np, i thought i had seen your name when i was tracking down the automake stuff
<ScottK> I've worked on packages like that before, it's just been awhile.
<EzraR> right now the package is broken for python 2.6 but say if i changed the source after install it would break it for < 2.6
<EzraR> or do i need to worry about people not having 2.6?
<EzraR> i can put a condition to change if over 2.5
<ScottK> In Lucid, we only have 2.6, so it's fine.
<EzraR> karmic too?
<ScottK> Karmic has 2.5 and 2.6.
<ScottK> A more general solution is preferable.  It'd be useful for Debian if not for us.
<EzraR> i believe that would take fixing automake which the bug is curently makred fixed
<EzraR> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.6/+bug/350016
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 350016 in python2.6 "wrong quoting in aclocal's python.m4 check" [High,Fix released]
<EzraR> ScottK: oh and btw the package ive been talking about isnt in debian
<ScottK> OK, then that simplifies things.
<EzraR> however if someone installed the package when they had python 2.5 then upgraded to 2.6 it would break
<jldupont> How come that my PPA doesn't appear in Synaptic?  When I press the "origin" button, my PPA isn't listed?
<micahg> jldupont: it just lists ppa.launchpad.net
<jldupont> micahg: thanks for the reply.  ok then, why isn't my package listed when I search for it **but** I can install it using apt-get ?
<micahg> do you have just the deb line or deb and deb-src?
<jldupont> just the deb
<jldupont> I need deb-src??
<micahg> maybe that's it, but I'd say that's a bug if it is
<jldupont> let me try... a sec.
<jldupont> even with the deb-src it's still doesn't show in Synaptic **but** it is installed as per apt-get...
<jldupont> what did I do wrong in the packaging ??
<ScottK> Neither PPA nor Synaptic are particularly on topic for this channel.
<jldupont> ScottK: I tried #launchpad but nobody responds...
<ScottK> That doesn't magically change the topic of this channel.
<micahg> jldupont: lets go to #ubuntu-bugs
<mac_v> hi... will the fix for Bug #439077 , be available for Karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439077 in vlc "enable globalhotkeys in karmic vlc" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439077
<mac_v> hmm , is this the right room for the question ? :)
<m4rtin> mac_v: only has a lucid patch at the moment
<m4rtin> maco: nice interview :)
<ScottK> mac_v: It's on topic for the channel.  Not sure who can answer.
<randomaction> mac_v: SRU was not requested
<mac_v> randomaction: hmm , how do we do that?
<randomaction> !sru
<ubottu> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mac_v> the bug was actually filed for karmic , as mentioned in the title
<fabrice_sp> mac_v, the fix is alwasys uploaded for the dev version, so Lucid in that case
<fabrice_sp> after it's fixed in the dev version, a SRU has to be done, to 'backport' it
<mac_v> hmm , reading the wiki , I'm not sure if this is SRU worthy , but seems more for the backports..
<mac_v> ah ok
<ari-tczew> devs, could someone check bug 393923, is it needs a fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393923 in agg "agg_rasterizer_cells_aa.h missing #includes <limits.h> and <stdlib.h> so it doesn't compile on new GCC versions" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393923
<fabrice_sp> ari-tczew, I don't think so: if the package works fine, I don't see the point of fixing something that we don't use. Check it with av`
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, I would like yout opinion in the patch attached for bug #401048 fixes the issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 401048 in havp "havp fails to (re)start because of mounted /var/spool/havp in Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/401048
<ari-tczew> sure fabrice_sp
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: You can ask cemc what testing he's done on this.  I don't have a havp setup to test with, but I generally trust his work on clamav packages.
<micahg1> anyone interested in pushing through an SRU?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok I'll ask him then :)
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: well, I attached that patch... and I think it fixes the problem, but I have to look at it a bit more. I know it's still an issue in Karmic
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, ok so if its still an issue in Karmic, it might be in lucid as well
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: yes, Lucid has the same version as Karmic
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, Yes, I was about to merge the new upstream version however I though to wait for the fix on that bug before uploading it to Lucid
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: 0.91-1 from testing?
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, yes
<maco> m4rtin: thanks
<cemc> RoAkSoAx: I dont' see any bugreports in Debian for this. I'll file one, maybe they'll fix it and then you can merge (and maybe do an SRU for Karmic). how does this sound?
<RoAkSoAx> cemc, awesome! I'll hold the merge a few days then!! :)
<fabrice_sp> is fakeroot broken in lucid?
<fabrice_sp> I'm getting "ERROR: ld.so: object 'libfakeroot-sysv.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored"
<fabrice_sp> hmm, it's not lucid fault
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, ^
<fabrice_sp> this is when I try to generate the source pacakge
<fabrice_sp> of libavg
<lars_> Hello together! I've got some questions to the contribution process for people who are new to the whole thing (like me). I read many wiki articles, but I am still a little unsure about which things I need to do. I followed the tutorials, here you can see what I got so far: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lcdproc/+bug/218374. I am not sure about the correctness of all what I did there... and I don't know what I still have to do. Can
<lars_>  you help me?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 218374 in lcdproc "LCD g15 driver is not compiled" [Medium,Confirmed]
<RoAkSoAx> hey guys has anyone else receiving a "E: Could not connect to fiordland.ubuntu.com:25: Connection timed out (110)" message while requesting a sync with requestsync ?
<randomaction> lars_: you should subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug. And the sponsors will most likely ask you to add the changelog entry (to debian/changelog), so you might do that as well :)
<lars_> ok, I will do that
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: thanks i got your update.
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: how do i add the export line?  i just added export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/libavg:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH on line 2 of the debian/rules file.
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, perhaps adding it when building the package? (in the buils target)
<fabrice_sp> you don't have this error?
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: i do - but i saw some stuff on google that it could be ignored.  i guess it can't.
<fabrice_sp> nop, as it don't let you build the source package :-D
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, do you have opinion on removing emacs22 from archive for lucid?
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: I think it should go, but I'd ask siretart` as he's a heavy emacs user and would know better.
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: humm, moving the export line below debian/stamp-build%:
<fcuk112> didn't help
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, ok :-)
<fabrice_sp> porthose, ^
<fabrice_sp> fcuk112, can you check if the source package can be built without this line?
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: then i get the old error again: libavg.so missing =P
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: it should build, but only when i have that export entry in my .pbuilderrc.
<fabrice_sp> perhaps someone else can help you with the build error
<fcuk112> fabrice_sp: ok - back to the drawing board :(
<fabrice_sp> do you have the exact building error?
<fabrice_sp> got it:
<fabrice_sp> dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library avg.so.0 needed by debian/python-libavg/usr/lib/libColorNode.so.0.0.0
<fabrice_sp> anyone know how to fix that^ ?
<siretart> fabrice_sp: why do you want emacs22 removed?
<siretart> ScottK: in case this question turns up again: I think we should keep emacs22 in universe at least for lucid, probably until we get an emacs24 package (which might take some time..) - for now let's hope that emacs23 gets promoted soon
<fabrice_sp> siretart, emacs is provided by emacs23, and this would allow to remove also another package (nxml-mode)
<fabrice_sp> ok
<ajmitch> is that still a good reason to remove it?
<fabrice_sp> siretart, do you have an opinion on Bug #485689 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485689 in nxml-mode "Please Merge nxml-mode 20041004-8 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485689
<ajmitch> though it's nice to cut down on the number of versions to carry
<fabrice_sp> ajmitch, 3 times the same pacakge seems a good reason to remove at least one :-)
<fabrice_sp> (at least, it seems to be the same package to me :- )
<ajmitch> I'm just wary of taking a package from default in main ine one release to removed in the next
<ajmitch> but apart from that I don't know if there are good reasons to keep it around
<ajmitch> or is emacs23 default in karmic? I can never remember :)
<siretart> ajmitch: no, emacs23 was not ready in time for wide testing. it is shipped in universe
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> 'emacs --version' gives me emacs23 because I chose to install it, I guess
<fabrice_sp> right: emacs is provided by emacs22 in karmic, and by emacs23 in lucid
<siretart> fabrice_sp: err, nxml-mode got merged in emacs23, yes. so we need it for emacs22 only.
<ScottK> siretart: Why do we need two emacs versions?
<siretart> fabrice_sp: I don't understand what's unclear on this bug?
<ajmitch> because emacs is more than just an editor :)
<siretart> ScottK: for the same reason we ship multiple versions of python
<ScottK> siretart: How many versions of Python in Lucid?
<fabrice_sp> siretart, I think it could be a sync, because I've not been able to reproduce the problem that generated the diff i Ubuntu
<ajmitch> still 5 at the moment, isn't it?
<ajmitch> from 2.4 to 3.1
<siretart> ScottK: sorry? I guess lucid will ship more than 2 versions.
<ScottK> Lucid only has 2.6 as a supported version.
<siretart> fabrice_sp: what bug is that?
<ScottK> siretart: OK.  I guess when one recalls emacs is an operating system that happens to have an editor, it makes sense.
<fabrice_sp> let me check
<siretart> ScottK: I don't propose to ship more than one version of emacs in main. keeping the older version in universe is all I suggest
<ScottK> OK.
<siretart> ScottK: nah, operating systems need to do scheduling and optionally paging. emacs does neither
<siretart> ScottK: rather think of emacs like an interpreter for a funky language (called elisp) that happens to have a graphical interface with an fancy editor :-)
<ScottK> Fair enough
<fabrice_sp> siretart, Bug #147904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 147904 in nxml-mode "package nxml-mode 20041004-7 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147904
<fabrice_sp> you fixed it :-D
<siretart> wow, that is an really old upload
<siretart> I'd be surprised if it hadn't be fixed in debian in the mean time
<siretart> so if you have verified upgrade still works, go ahead with the sync!
<fabrice_sp> that's my point :-) I'll just make another check, but it was ok last time I checked (don't remember if it was an upgrade ar an install)
<porthose> fabrice_sp, just read the scroll back, I'll switch the bug from a merge to a sync :)
<fabrice_sp> perfect :-)
<fabrice_sp> bed time: bye ;-)
<porthose> nite
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-25
<dtchen> maco: want to push http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36042725/lame_3.98.2%2Bdebian-0ubuntu3.debdiff for me, please?
<maco> sure
<dtchen> thanks
<maco> dtchen: "apt-get -t=lucid source lame" isnt happy.=
<ajmitch> dtchen: you don't have upload rights yet?
<maco> he hasnt in a couple years
<maco> gave them up
<ajmitch> but he reapplied recently
<ajmitch> lame is in multiverse if it helps your apt-getting :)
<maco> and cant figure out what the new process is
<maco> ajmitch: ah thts it
<ajmitch> I suspect a different group of people need to be pinged for upload rights now
<maco> its the DMB
<dtchen> ajmitch: DMB met this morning, but their meeting times collide directly with my work hours.
<ajmitch> dtchen: that's why I was a little surprised, since I saw a number of other people welcomed into the fold
<ajmitch> like Amaranth with his compiz crack
<Laney> they wanted to do an interview as it was a core-dev application
<Amaranth> They wanted to do an interview because he was core-dev in the past
<ajmitch> ah well
<maco> er...isnt update-maintainer supposed to put 'Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss...>" in debian/control?
<ajmitch> soon, I hope :)
<ajmitch> maco: what did it do for you?
<maco> put me
<maco> pretty sure thats not right
<ajmitch> heh
<Laney> it does that if it can't find the package in debian
<dtchen> which it isn't, since its source is either debian-multimedia or multiverse
<ajmitch> thanks, I was just about to say that :)
 * ajmitch was just reading through the (short) source for it
<maco> i see
<maco> so i should put in devel though, right?
<dtchen> these are the sorts of things I would have outright rejected in the past for patches, but well, I think we can do better
<ajmitch> unless you want to be responsible for it
<dtchen> (better -> smoother upgrades)
 * Laney doesn't understand the Provides:
<dtchen> Laney: upgrades
<Laney> and that changelog could be more verbose (why)
<Laney> anyway, bed
<dtchen> we can't prevent people from using other repositories, but we can handle upgrades from known sources
<dtchen> true, I could have put "Allows smooth upgrades"
<maco> dtchen: uploading
<dtchen> maco: thanks
<ajmitch> finally, an up-to-date sid install
<Buuntu>  /join #ubuntu-us-oh
<Buuntu> nxvl, so do you think I can get a mentor then?
<nxvl> Buuntu: can you do a patch by yourself?
<Buuntu> nxvl, hmm, a very simple one :D, I was able to build the one provided as an example on the wiki guide :P
<nxvl> Buuntu: a mentor is not a teacher
<Buuntu> nxvl, well, I just need guidance
<nxvl> Buuntu: a mentor will guide you trough the motu process, but not by the hand, you need to be able to do the process by yourself
<nxvl> Buuntu: with a little help of a mentor
<Buuntu> nxvl, well that will be helpful anyways, I just need someone to guide me at first at least - I'm not exactly sure what to do next besides maybe try to build a few more packages
<RoAkSoAx> ;)
<nxvl> Buuntu: find a bug that you can fix, try to fix it, and when you have problems ask here
<nxvl> a lot of people will be able to helo
<nxvl> Buuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<Buuntu> nxvl, find a bug? motu deals with bugs?
<Buuntu> nxvl, I thought they just packaged what the developers made
<nxvl> no
<nxvl> we deal with bugs
<nxvl> actually most of the work is dealing with bugs
<nxvl> the packaging is mostly done in debian
<Buuntu> nxvl, lol, what kind of bugs exactly - bugs in packages?  it isn't very clear what MOTU does in the wiki then :P
<nxvl> in packages, in packging, etc..
<nxvl> we maintain the packages
<nxvl> if the packages have bugs, we need to fix them
<nxvl> or contact upstream to fix it
<Buuntu> nxvl, I don't know how the process works - that's what I need guidance with: where do I get the packages that haven't been approved for example (I'm guessing those are the ones that need fixed)?
<Buuntu> nxvl, how do I upload the completed package, etc...
<Buuntu> nxvl, do I need to fix bugs in the source package as well?
<Buuntu> nxvl, lots of questions I'm confused about... :P
<nxvl> questions that you can ask in this channel and someone will answer to them and help you
<nxvl> ScottK: around?
<nxvl> ScottK: i kinda broke courier :P
<Buuntu> nxvl, does motu do the bug finding itself or do we just fix the bugs that have already been found?
<nxvl> ScottK: it's complaining about some non-moved files
<nxvl> Buuntu: http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/
<Buuntu> nxvl, can I really fix any bug with just what that guide taught me?
<dtchen> Buuntu: there isn't a substitute for experience, I suppose
<Buuntu> so motu is more of a self-taught thing more than anything? I shouldn't expect any guidance?
<nxvl> yup
<maco> there is much to read, but you can of course ask questions here
<nxvl> there isn't a magic recipe that will fix all your problems
<nxvl> you need to think
<maco> i dont think anyone's going to prevent you from making mistakes and learning from them
<Buuntu> T_T
<maco> i ask a LOT of questions
<nxvl> i'm a MOTU and i do that aswell
<nxvl> core-devs ask questions aswell
<nxvl> no-one knows all the answers
<Buuntu> I think I expected this to be much easier than it is, that's all :P
<Buuntu> everything all set up and easy to follow instructions on how to do it etc...
<maco> yeah, we could probably use better docs
<dtchen> +1
<maco> but the good news is that there are a few things you're going to do a lot and once youve done them once or twice, its pretty easy
<RoAkSoAx> Buuntu, i'm also a MOTU and I ask a looooooooooooooot of questions on things I do not know
 * maco puts a hand over dtchen's mouth so he cant say how many questions i ask
<nxvl> yeah, RoAkSoAx drive me crazy all day
<nxvl> :D
 * nxvl hides
<Buuntu> so sorry if this is broad, but how does the process of maintaining work?
<nxvl> maco: well, we are on IRC, closing his mouth won't help you
<maco> hehe dtchen's my roommate, so none of you see how much i ask him, since i do it offline
<nxvl> maco: his hands are still free :P
<maco> nxvl: hrm fair point
<RoAkSoAx> maco, nxvl and ivoks wanted to kill me once :P
<maco> nxvl: no killing MOTUs!
<nxvl> maco: you are listed aswell
<ajmitch> maco: take away our fun, why don't you
<nxvl> maco: so don't blame me :D
<maco> nxvl: i thought that was "maco, i am talking to you..."
<nxvl> ohhh
<nxvl> right
<Buuntu> how do you "check a package for bugs"? just review all the important files and maybe run pbuilder on the package see if the dependencies are wrong?
<maco> i dont recall wanting to kill RoAkSoAx
<nxvl> it can be that aswell
<nxvl> :P
<nxvl> i do
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> if only finding bugs in a package were that easy :)
<maco> Buuntu: pbuilder it, yeah...test installation and removal...upgrade as well if a previous verison exists
<ajmitch> that'll catch a few of them, some won't show up until people start using the package
<dtchen> piuparts <--
<Buuntu> maco, what do you suggest I do first, build a s*** load of packages so I get the hang of how it works?
<maco> ok yeah piuparts automates htat install/remove/upgrade thing...i just dont know hwo to use it
<maco> ajmitch: i think Buuntu means testing the packaging, not the software
<nxvl> that reminds me
<maco> Buuntu: find a bug with a patch attached and learn how to patch the pakage
<dtchen> I'm pretty sure I sketched out how to use it in a classroom session ;-)
<nxvl> dtchen: you weren't on UDS, right?
<dtchen> nxvl: correct
<maco> dtchen: yeah i have to go read that
<ajmitch> maco: but they're so closely related most of the time :)
<Buuntu> are packages with bugs all nicely organized already?
<maco> Buuntu: bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu ?
<nxvl> dtchen: why?
<micahg> ?
<maco> Buuntu: you can do a search on there for bugs with patches attached
<micahg> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<ajmitch> think of MOTU like fighting a forest fire with a leaky bucket of water :)
<micahg> bitesize might be good to start with, no?
<maco> micahg: i thought bitesize tended to involve having to make a patch of your own?
<Buuntu> maco, so when a bug is filed and accepted, it goes to MOTU first?
<nxvl> ajmitch: heh
<maco> Buuntu: motu deal with stuff in universe & main
<maco> but bug squad & bug control go after bugs first
<maco> they triage, set importance, etc. ...get the bug into a state where a developer can start writing a patch
<micahg> here's the process before it gets to MOTU: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage/Charts
<maco> micahg: i figured checking that a patch applies, and if it does creating a debdiff would be an easy thing to start with
<dtchen> nxvl: much needed respite, work commitments, etc.
<Buuntu> maco, ok so first things first.  Where can I find the packages with bugs
<Buuntu> micahg, yeah I've read that I believe
<micahg> maco: makes sense
<maco> Buuntu: finding packages *without* bugs would be harder
<maco> Buuntu: almost every bug in bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs is attached to a package
<RoAkSoAx> maco, btw... does pkern want to change the localization of gobby source to en_US instead of en_UK?
<ajmitch> having bugs which are useful to work on is another matter - the problem described doesn't always have an obvious solution
<Buuntu> maco, click on the ones that "Need-packaging"?
<ajmitch> that's why the bugsquad goes through & tries to get more info on them
<micahg> well, about 97.5%
<micahg> but we have 80k+ bugs now
<nxvl> dtchen: oh yeah, working sucks
<maco> Buuntu: if you want to package from scratch, sure...but doing an "advanced search" for bugs with patches will be easiest to start, i think
<ajmitch> micahg: about a thousand bugs each to squash then? :)
<maco> RoAkSoAx: gobby source is en_UK by default. ubuntu has no en_US translation team and expects source to be en_US and then we have en_UK langpacks
<micahg> ajmitch: with 400 new ones a day :)
<ajmitch> we'll give the new bugs to the newest MOTU then
<maco> RoAkSoAx: so that means for en_US users to see en_US text, the source needs to be changed to be en_US and an en_UK.po has to be added
<nxvl> well, en_US isn't the main language after all
<nxvl> :P
<RoAkSoAx> maco, yes I saw the bug report, but what I mean is that if you've contacted upstream and ask him to change to en_US?
<micahg> ajmitch: actually about half are still new, so they're pre-MOTU
<ajmitch> micahg: I was wrong about the number of people in ~ubuntu-dev, LP lists 144 people
<Buuntu> maco, bugs with patches, how do I find those?
<micahg> except for the 2k needs-packaging bugs
<maco> RoAkSoAx: oh, i have not talked to upstream. dpm said that too. im kinda expecting "but en_UK is *REAL* english" as a response. also, that version of gobby is no longer being developed
<maco> Buuntu: click advanced search
<Buuntu> maco, I'm there
<ajmitch> maco: I could argue that en_NZ is real english as well :P
<nxvl> Buuntu: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/
<nxvl> maco: harvest is easier
<maco> nxvl: ok
<Buuntu> nxvl, are you daniel holba?!
<maco> hahah no
<maco> daniel is dholbach
<ajmitch> no, he doesn't give enough hugs to be dholbach
<maco> he'll not be online for 5 more hours or so
<Buuntu> lol ok
<RoAkSoAx> maco, but cuz I was about to merge the new gobby version in squeeze, but I want to wait to see if upstream changes the default localization... I'll try to convince him too though. It should not be that hard as dpm said
<nxvl> Buuntu: hell no!
<Buuntu> nxvl, hahaha
<maco> RoAkSoAx: the patch i did wasnt for new gobby, just the old unmaintained one
<nxvl> maco: daniel? 3 maybe 4 more hours
<maco> RoAkSoAx: im not sure how to approach this
<maco> nxvl: he gets on when its 3am my time
<maco> i know cuz i fell asleep a half hour before he got online this morning :)
<ajmitch> heh
<nxvl> maco: this time of the year he usually gets on when it's 2 am my time, IIRC
<nxvl> i haven't need to wait for him in a while, maybe he changed his schedule
<maco> maybe he's sleeping in since UDS?
<nxvl> maco: you are on washington, right?
<maco> nxvl: yes
<nxvl> that reminds me, i need to sleep what i'm owing since UDS, i'm still SO tired
<RoAkSoAx> maco, The new upstream release has the same *problem*. I would try to convince pkern to change the localization in the source as dpm recommended :)
<nxvl> maco: then you are in my same tz... i think
<ajmitch> nxvl: that's why there are weekends
<nxvl> maco: 10:12ish?
<nxvl> ajmitch: really? aren't they for drinking and partying?
<nxvl> :P
<maco> RoAkSoAx: is pkern upstream?
<maco> nxvl: yes
<ajmitch> nxvl: I wouldn't know, I usually sleep through them ;)
<RoAkSoAx> maco, yep
<nxvl> ajmitch: life is short, sleeping is a waste of time
<maco> fudge nuggets
<nxvl> ajmitch: i can sleep when i'm dead
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, +1 to weekends for drinking and partying... :)
<nxvl> just give me more mountain dews
<nxvl> :D
<maco> i think he dislikes me after that bug report now :(
<nxvl> sadly there is no mtn dew in peru :(
<ajmitch> maco: were you slightly flaming upstream in that bug report?
<RoAkSoAx> maco, i'll ping him do about this too to find out if he is interested in doing so
<maco> no
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, there is
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, go to Plaza Vea :P
<maco> ajmitch: no, but i argued with him when he said i broke things. i blamed dpm, as i warned him i would
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: I DON"T WANT TO KNOW!!!
<nxvl> to late
<nxvl> :(
<nxvl> now i will never sleep
<maco> ajmitch: because i told dpm i dont do string changes for fear of breaking translations and that if i got in trouble for making the change the way he told me to, id blame him
<Buuntu> so most people here went to the UDS?
<ajmitch> hah
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, hahaha It's not that bad... it doesn't have any effect on me anyways :P
<maco> Buuntu: i think just me and nxvl
<ajmitch> Buuntu: a few did, most of us didn't go
<maco> as far as who's talking right now
 * ajmitch had other small things on, like work
<maco> yeah i skipped school
<Buuntu> maco, isn't it in California?
<maco> it was in dallas
<RoAkSoAx> maco, I see here that your upload was for lucid right? so I can drop the patch in the merge
<maco> RoAkSoAx: yes
<ajmitch> UDS is in a different place each time
<maco> north america in fall and usually europe (once oz) in spring
<ajmitch> I think wgrant is at uni
<nxvl> maco: RoAkSoAx was on UDS aswell
<maco> RoAkSoAx: did i meet you?
<RoAkSoAx> yep :P
<maco> ajmitch: yeah he's like 19, he should be in uni
<RoAkSoAx> maco, nope :(
<nxvl> heh
<RoAkSoAx> maco: but I new who you were
 * ajmitch hasn't been to UDS for a little while
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: knew
<RoAkSoAx> s/new/knew
<maco> RoAkSoAx: there were 20 women. couldnt have been that hard
<nxvl> i still remember Prague when there was only ~5 womens
<nxvl> glad to see the number is increasing
<RoAkSoAx> maco, let's see... I was the one who cjwatson asked the name of in the Future of MOTU sessions  :)
<maco> ah ok
<ajmitch> how did that session go?
<ajmitch> I haven't heard anything from it
<maco> i PM'd him and asked "did you just ask 'what's your name, son?'"
<maco> (no, it was "sorry?" not "son?")
<maco> i think the conclusion was "lets keep the name motu, for hysterical raisins"
<nxvl> cjwatson needs to come with subtitles </maco>
<ajmitch> the hard part about UDS is trying to track down all the little bits of information that was discussed there
<maco> nxvl: not just him
<maco> nxvl: but the others need translation subtitles
<maco> or i just need to learn a few more languages :)
<ajmitch> since it's an effective dividing line between those that were there & know about it, and those who weren't
<maco> ajmitch: we came up with a list of what the functions of motu are
<maco> and talked about how the "train new devs" thing would be handled (each team should train the people interested in specializing with them, but if someone doesnt have a specialization yet... anyone should still be willing to help)
<nxvl> maco: well, i can understan the main ones
<nxvl> :D
<ajmitch> maco: I'm mostly ranting about the communication in general, I don't like getting surprises a few months down the track & being told "but it was discussed at UDS!" :)
<maco> ajmitch: we had a session on that too!
 * wgrant has been at uni for a couple of years now.
<wgrant> Although I am young.
<nxvl> wgrant: how old are you?
<wgrant> nxvl: 18 and a little bit.
<nxvl> wgrant: around 18?
<ajmitch> wgrant: you make the rest of us feel old
<nxvl> yeah, that's what i remembered
<maco> he made me feel old!
<micahg> wow
<StevenK> Haha
<nxvl> maco: shhh
<StevenK> maco: But you're not old!
<nxvl> maco: you are young
 * micahg wishes Ubuntu was around when I was younger
<maco> yeah i know
<EzraR> \
<ajmitch> don't worry, I know debian developers who are around 70+ :)
 * nxvl remembers a comment of ScottK a couple of years ago saying i made him feel too old when i posted about why bugs are called bugs
<StevenK> ajmitch: CosmicRay doesn't count :-P
<ajmitch> StevenK: nah, this is a local, phil charles
<ajmitch> he used to be active in the debian CD team
 * RoAkSoAx has to many emails to read after the UDS :(
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: try to check my e-mail after a weekend
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: you will get CRAZY
<RoAkSoAx> nxvl, i have 70 unread emails in average in 4 of my accounts :S... and I already got rid of the spam :S
<ajmitch> only 70?
<lfaraone> maco: hm?
<ajmitch> you're not subscribed to debian-devel then, are you?
 * lfaraone waves at Buuntu 
<nxvl> RoAkSoAx: plz! that's less of what i get in a morning
<RoAkSoAx> ajmitch, i mean 70 on each of my 4 accounts
 * Buuntu waves back
<ajmitch> or the favourite - ubuntu-bugs@l.u.c
 * wgrant doesn't count debian-devel in his mail totals.
<wgrant> I have > 10000 unread there now.
<ajmitch> d-d is a list to be read selectively
<StevenK> wgrant: That's a sign you should probably unsubscribe
<nxvl> wgrant: heh, yeah, try to subscribe to go-nuts
<RoAkSoAx> mine are just emails that I need to reply :( or to care about :(
<wgrant> StevenK: But there are amusing/useful threads on there sometimes.
<ajmitch> nxvl: sounds interesting
<StevenK> wgrant: And the last time that happened was what, 2002?
<ajmitch> StevenK: lies, there are interesting threads on there all the time
<nxvl> StevenK: well, it depends, if you just read and get amused on how they can fight for nonsenses sometimes, it's recent
<wgrant> nxvl: Precisely.
<ajmitch> like the recent discussions on the 3.0 (quilt) source format
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> And the GR threat.
<StevenK> Meh, I have -private for that
<jpds> Hmm.
<ajmitch> -private is boring
<ajmitch> not that we'll disclose any of the contents :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Except for the Edward Betts incident
<ajmitch> can't say I recall that
<StevenK> ajmitch: "I drank heavily, passed out, and I woke up my laptop was covered in vomit, so I'm on VAC"
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> StevenK: coming over for LCA in jan?
 * wgrant will be in Wellington the week before, so will probably attend.
<jpds> wgrant: Be sure to take boots.
<ajmitch> wgrant: great
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yup
<StevenK> Speaking of, I need to book flights
 * ajmitch was just registering this morning & looking for flights
<ajmitch> probably only slightly cheaper for me to fly there than for you
<StevenK> Really?
<ajmitch> well, about $260 NZD for me, return flights
<ajmitch> not sure about right now, but you can get to australia for a similar price sometimes
<EzraR> why would the lucid build servers have an older version of xulrunner than karmic?
<EzraR> xulrunner-dev
<StevenK> EzraR: Er, looks okay to me from rmadison
<EzraR> what version?
<micahg> EzraR: xulrunner-dev is provided by xul-1.9.1
<dtchen> looks fine:
<dtchen> xulrunner-dev | 1.9.1.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.9.10.1 | karmic-security | amd64, i386
<dtchen> xulrunner-dev | 1.9.1.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.9.10.1 | karmic-updates | amd64, i386
<dtchen> xulrunner-dev | 1.9.1.5+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 |         lucid | amd64, i386
<EzraR> this package just failed...it was installing stuff into xulrunner-devel-1.9.1.3
<EzraR> on my pbuilder it installes into xulrunner-devel-1.9.1.5
<dtchen> does the environment have an active deb line for karmic-updates?
<EzraR> hmm
<EzraR> not sure what you mean
<wgrant> Where's the build log?
<EzraR> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pcmanx-gtk2/0.3.9-2ubuntu1/+build/1364833/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.pcmanx-gtk2_0.3.9-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dtchen> err, armel
<wgrant> armel
<wgrant> Yes.
<EzraR> ?
<micahg> EzraR: you're not going to want to do that
<micahg> I mean explicitely stating the version in the path
<wgrant> Horrible applications (like xulrunner) are likely to FTBFS on obscure architectures (like armel), so old versions might be present.
<EzraR> that was how it was before the murge i just pointed it to the right place
<EzraR> i mean i could start a trend and use a symlink
<micahg> EzraR: I suggest you talk to asac in the morning
<StevenK> Or you could fix xulrunner to built on armel
<EzraR> heh
<wgrant> Preferably both.
<lifeless> StevenK: so, bacon explosion. Are you in?
<wgrant> lifeless: NO.
<StevenK> lifeless: I'm happy to try it, but they scare me
<StevenK> lifeless: And where has Chewy gone? :-(
<fabrice_sp> micahg, you're right about the version. IT can easily be fixed with an * :-/
<fabrice_sp> I should have paid more attention before sponsoring (only thought about merges, and not xulrunner version changes)
<lifeless> wgrant: whyever not?
<lifeless> StevenK: been busy with Life.
<wgrant> lifeless: ETOOMUCHBACON
<lifeless> wgrant: but but but
<StevenK> wgrant: No such thing
<EzraR> micahg: who is asac?
<micahg> EzraR: head of the mozilla team (maintainer of xulrunner)
<lifeless> alexander sach
<EzraR> ahh heh..
<EzraR> yeah i'll have a chat with him
<fabrice_sp> EzraR, I've just uploaded a new version with * instead of 1.9.1.5 in install and rules file.
<fabrice_sp> it should be on armel now
<fabrice_sp> anyway, speak with asac about the better way to do that
<EzraR> fabrice_sp: thnx
<EzraR> should i send the idea to debian too? i always feel like a pest contacting debian maintainers
<fabrice_sp> EzraR, i think so: sid has 1.9.1.5 also, so they should encounter the same problem
<micahg> EzraR: asac is also a DD I think
<EzraR> they hardcode the path, is why i say it
<micahg> EzraR: debian?
<EzraR> ok ill talk to him about it
<EzraR> yeah
<EzraR> they use the path xulrunner-devel-1.9.1
<EzraR> maybe its a symlink?
 * EzraR shrugs
<EzraR> ill talk to him about it
<EzraR> thanks guys
<mac_v> hi.. anyone who is involved with the vuze package around? vuze also faces this problem > Bug #403135 , but the bug has somewhat become a master bug... should i file a separate bug for vuze or just add it as an also affects?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 403135 in alltray "Notification area icon wrongly rendered/has a black background (multiple apps)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/403135
<LucidFox> Hmm.
<LucidFox> How do I update a package in bzr to a new upstream version?
<lifeless> bzr merge-upstream path-to-tarball [optional-path-to-branch-of-new-upstream]
<LucidFox> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "merge-upstream"
<lifeless> LucidFox: you'll want bzr-builddeb installed, and also see James Westby's mail to ubuntu-devel last week or so
<LucidFox> bzr: ERROR: Unable to find the tag for the previous upstream version, 0.12.5, in the branch: upstream-0.12.5
<siretart`> LucidFox: is that a branch you created yourself or from the package importer?
<lifeless> LucidFox: sounds like this isn't  a bzr packaging branch from the importer
<LucidFox> What's the package importer?
<siretart`> LucidFox: bzr builddeb provides a command 'mark-uploaded' that tags the current revision properly. the branches on launchpad are using james_w bzr-builddeb commands on every import
<siretart`> LucidFox: in order to fix your private branch, go back in history and use that command to add your tags.
<lifeless> siretart`: upstream tags are different
<lifeless> siretart`: they have the pristine-tar data added
<lifeless> [on the commit]
<siretart`> lifeless: oh, mark-uploaded doesn't add these? it should!
<lifeless> siretart`: merge-upstream does
<siretart`> hm. ok
<lifeless> the error about missing tag is filed as a bug:)
<siretart`> k
<LucidFox> I can just re-checkout the package "properly", but I don't know where the documentation is.
 * ajmitch still finds it a little hard to follow, but hasn't tried any merges yet
<ajmitch> is there a wiki page with the current info about the workflow?
 * ajmitch guesses wiki.u.c/DistributedDevelopment is it
<LucidFox> It's a specification page...
<ajmitch> with a documentation link
<dholbach> good morning
 * LucidFox waves
<LucidFox> By the documentation link, do you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto ?
<dholbach> hi LucidFox
<ajmitch> no, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation
<ajmitch> hello dholbach
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> dholbach: how are you today?
<dholbach> ajmitch: good good - how about you?
<ajmitch> good thanks :)
<mac_v> hi.. why is the winbind package not installed by default?
<mac_v> oops wrong channel!
<LucidFox> "These applications have been authorized to access Launchpad on your behalf. If you revoke an authorization, that application will not be allowed to do anything in Launchpad on your behalf."
<LucidFox> That's it. Launchpad is the new Facebook. :)
<tsimpson> as long as I don't get those "oh, please be my friend" messages, I don't mind
<Flannel> tsimpson: Will you please be my friend?
<tsimpson> I'll consider it, if you pay me ;)
<pmcenery> Hi. Does anyone know how to get a PPA deleted from launchpad? I have added one that I would like to remove? Is it possible?
<pmcenery> I.e. one of my own PPAs
<noodles775> pmcenery: please ask on #launchpad - but yes, you can file a question requesting it to be deleted (if you've never published to it, otherwise just disabled currently)
<pmcenery> noodles775: thanks
<akheron> any MOTUs around? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson
<LucidFox> akheron> Looking
<akheron> thanks
<LucidFox> akheron> Commented
<akheron> thanks, good points
<ScottK> nxvl: Did you get Courier fixed?
<LucidFox> So many of the common mistakes on REVU are caused by users leaving dh_make defaults.
<akheron> LucidFox: what defaults?
<akheron> invoking wrong dh_ programs?
<LucidFox> For example, commented out dh_* commands in debian/rules. Or debian/dirs.
<akheron> ah, ok
<LucidFox> debian/dirs is only needed in very specific cases, it should really be debian/dirs.ex, I think.
<tsimpson> you don't include the .ex files, those are examples
<LucidFox> I know.
<tsimpson> LucidFox: that wasn't directed to you specifically :)
<LucidFox> "Choice of Law: This license is governed by the Laws of Pennsylvania, USA."
<LucidFox> Huh? How does it work if the user doesn't live there?
<wgrant> That's not a terribly rare sort of clause.
<LucidFox> So even if I use the software in Russia, its terms of use will still be governed by US law?
<LucidFox> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/ubuntu-tweak <-- Software like this bugs me. It's like Automatix, "solving" Ubuntu problems the Windows way - an approach that rarely works.
<tsimpson> I doubt it'll make it into the archives
<nxvl> ScottK: not still, i'm trying to figure out what's going on
<LucidFox> tsimpson> Well, if it technically satisfies the packaging rules, who will have the guts to refuse it just for ideological reasons? :)
<tsimpson> harmful packages will not be accepted
<LucidFox> On a related note... I've finally moved remaining jaunty packages in REVU to "Needs Work". Only karmic and lucid remaining now.
<tsimpson> there was a time that automatix was on revu
<LucidFox> And it wasn't accepted because it was "harmful"?
<tsimpson> it was a badly written software, so it wasn't ever going to be accepted
<tsimpson> and the security team would definitely block it
<tsimpson> it was full of "sudo apt-get -y --force-yes ..."
<LucidFox> O_O
<ScottK> There's no rule that says we have to accept crap.
<ScottK> Even if it's packaged correctly.
<ghostcube> guys anyone knows the webpage for the nvidia driver packages from ubuntu official
<ghostcube> not ppa
<ghostcube> its not offcial released
<slytherin> ghostcube: What do you mean by webpage?
<ghostcube> its an page where you can download the deb packages and install them by dpkg -i
<ghostcube> and the heck i dont remember where to search for
<ghostcube> i have them on my other machne in bookmarks
<ghostcube> :D
<ghostcube> its not an repo
<akheron> LucidFox: btw, assuming that my package gets to universe some day, is it OK to have the packaging maintained in a GitHub repo?
<slytherin> ghostcube: did you search http://packages.ubuntu.com
<ghostcube> i found them as i searched for the latest kernels from ubuntu kernel team
<ghostcube> yeah
<ghostcube> slytherin: if iam at home later i tell you ;)
<LucidFox> akheron> I don't know, never used a VCS for packages I maintain by myself.
<ScottK> akheron: Once it's in Universe, it'll be team maintained and so you're welcome to maintain packaging in github, but it's unlikely others would push changes there.
<akheron> ScottK: ok, I just thought about the Vcs-Browser and Vcs-Git control fields which I have there
<ScottK> akheron: I think it's not a problem to have them, but as I said, it's not likely that others will go to github if they change your package.
<ScottK> Of course if you keep it up to date and in good shape yourself, that may not come up.
<ScottK> akheron: I'd suggest that if you're that interested in the package you should also look at getting it into Debian where you can be the dedicated maintainer.
<akheron> I've been thinking about that, but I think I'm more interested in the software itself than in maintaining the package
<akheron> getting it to debian too would be great though
<ScottK> If you are interested in the software, getting it into Debian helps get it in front of a lot more users (Debian has other downstreams than Ubuntu).
<slytherin> akheron: Vcs-* fields are used if the packaging is maintained in a VCS. This usually happends for team maintained packages in Debian.
<ScottK> See mentors.debian.net.
<akheron> ScottK: I'll have a look, thanks
<pmatulis> is pdebuild the way to go if i want to sign a build in order to make a PPA?
<jack_> sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --arch --debootstrapopts amd64
<jack_> is that the way to build a 64bits chroot on 32bit to build packages for amd64?
<jack_> I find info about how to get a 32bit chroot on amd64 but not vice versa
<jack_> is that for a reason?
<ScottK> AFAIK you can't build 64 bit binaries with a 32 bit system.
<jack_> ScottK, mmh
<jack_> ScottK, are u sure?
<jack_> maybe someone can confirm this?
<Hobbsee> fairly sure he's right
<Hobbsee> (Scottk, that is)
<Laney> yeah, you can't do it like that
<jack_> ok thanks
<jack_> other ways?
<geser> you need a 64bit kernel to run 64bit binaries (applies also to those run in a chroot)
<Laney> I dunno if you can emulate it
<soren> Well, if you run it in qemu, you can, but it's very, very slow.
<slytherin> pmatulis: you can use any of the build tools available (pdebuild, pbuilder, sbuild etc). Signing is not dependent on build tool used.
<pmatulis> slytherin: should i be using sudo to run pdebuild, i get errors otherwise.  then i get the error "Could not find a signing program (pgp or gpg)"
<pmatulis> slytherin: i needed sudo to create my initial pbuilder (base.tgz)
<Laney> to upload to a ppa you just need a signed source package
<slytherin> pmatulis: gpg is not installed? What kind of setup are you using?
<slytherin> pmatulis: You can also create a source package with dpkg-buildpackage. You do not need root access for that.
<pmatulis> slytherin: yes, it's installed.  i'm using pbuilder and i would like to stick to as few tools as possible
<pmatulis> slytherin: i would rather use pbuilder/pdebuild for everything
<slytherin> ttx: any idea if the jasper compiler included in tomcat is the only jsp compiler available in repos?
<ttx> slytherin: no idea. There should be one in jetty, I suppose
<slytherin> ttx: ok. I will check
<bddebian> Heya gang
<xim_> im new to ubuntu dev, can software written in java be integrated into the ubuntu repos?
<bddebian> No Java is Evil and therefore not allowed.. ;-P
<dholbach> xim_: don't listen to bddebian
<dholbach> xim_: there's a bunch of java applications in Ubuntu already
<bddebian> hehe
<bddebian> xim_: Just make sure it works with gcj and/or openjdk
<xim_> ah ok thx
<dholbach> and there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/KnowledgeBase
<xim_> im about to start writing yet another alarmclock since none of the available ones do what I want, and id like to make it available so I wanted to ask before I got started on it if only native code was accepted
<xim_> but schweet
<pmcenery> Is there a list of packages that people would like to see packaged anywhere? I'm looking to get some packaging practice...
<bddebian> pmcenery: Launchpad should have request for packaging bugs or you can check Debian's WNPP for RFP
<dholbach> pmcenery: personally I'd recommend starting work on existing packages
<slytherin> bddebian: gcj is old. Nobody uses it these days. :-)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted has links to all the important documentation
<bddebian> xim_: If you package your own, try to make sure you don't include any binary jar files, it should be able to be built from the existing java stuff in Debian/Ubuntu
<dholbach> xim_: meet slytherin
<dholbach> slytherin: meet xim_ :)
<bddebian> slytherin: Well I was trying to be "nice" :)
<sebner> heya dholbach bddebian :)
<dholbach> hi sebner
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<xim_> gotcha
<slytherin> bddebian: Even Debian switched to openjdk as default. :-)
<slytherin> xim_: I would suggest work on existing packages. Many of them need fixing/updating. But I leave the decision to you.
<bddebian> slytherin: I know I've been "helping" the debian-java team some :)
<slytherin> I know. Was just teasing you. :-P
<bddebian> slytherin: Even though I forget to credit people some times.. :(  :)
<slytherin> Ok. We are past that already. I told you it was not a bug issue.
<slytherin> s/bug/big
<MTecknology> How do translations work as far as in the package? Is there any magic voodoo that goes on so if somebody pulls the package from ppa lp will give them the package with the translations in it?
<dpm> MTecknology, could you please specify what you are trying to do, so someone can try to help you? In general, PPA packages have got no integration with LP, as far as translations go.
<MTecknology> dpm: I don't understand how translations are used
<jpds> MTecknology: Translation files in packages are strip from them on build and put into language packs, IIRC.
<jpds> stripped*
<MTecknology> oh
<dpm> MTecknology, that's quite a general question :) Are you working on a particular package? In general, for Ubuntu packages inside the package (generally those from upstream) are imported into Launchpad. Ubuntu translators complete them using the web UI and those are then exported in special packages called language packs
<ScottK> jpds: But only for Main and this is #ubuntu-motu
<MTecknology> that makes more sense; thanks
<MTecknology> I just didn't have any understanding of it at all
<jpds> ScottK: For now....
<dpm> MTecknology, but have also in mind what ScottK is mentioning. For the packages in universe translations are left in the package as they are
<pmatulis> is there an easy way to discover what release & arch the current pbuilder is using?
<AlanBell> hi, can someone point me in the direction of some information about how the partner repo is maintained?
<ScottK> AlanBell: You need to ask Canonical about that.  It's nothing to do with the Ubuntu community.
<AlanBell> thanks ScottK, do you know any contact point for it?
<AlanBell> there are not many packages in it for Karmic
<ScottK> Generally this is the case.
<AlanBell> what is generally the case?
<ScottK> Not a lot of packages.
<AlanBell> ah, indeed, there are not lots
<ScottK> Also Partner usually starts to get packages at release time.
<AlanBell> but there were many more in the Jaunty repo
<AlanBell> I asked about it a few times during the karmic beta and was told to wait for the release
<AlanBell> but only symphony got added
<AlanBell> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/partner/binary-i386/Packages vs http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/karmic/partner/binary-i386/Packages
<AlanBell> the one I want is alfresco-community
<ScottK> My generaly understanding is that being in the Partner repo involves a contractual relationship between Canonical and the entity wanting the package there.
<ScottK> generaly/gneral
<ScottK> Urgh.  Just imagine all my spelling was perfect.
<AlanBell> so I guess someone stopped paying the bills then
<ScottK> That'd be my guess.  Or negotiations are still in progress.
<ScottK> No way to know.
<AlanBell> ok, thanks for your help, I will go digging elsewhere . . .
<waver_> I have a small problem, my postinst and prerm is no more working after installing/removing the package
<waver_> Old one: http://pastebin.com/d11a9f00b
<waver_> New one: http://pastebin.com/d6f42ca6e
<waver_> any idea ?
<timmie> hello fellow packagers
<timmie> I need some advice on changing an already uploaded package
<timmie> anyone with time to help?
<av`> timmie, go ahead :)
<timmie> Thanks.
<timmie> A package I created using the Ubuntu guide for Python.
<timmie> After a successful upload, the build did not succeed
<timmie> then I modified the debian/control file
<timmie> run dput again.
<timmie> and the package got rejected.
<timmie> what do I need to do to replace the one in the PPA / REVU?
<av`> timmie, wait... PPA is not an alternative for REVU
<timmie> know. I first send it to a PPA. Then to REVU.
<av`> and anyway you are using a wrong versioning
<av`> did you bump the version after the change on control?
<timmie> But let's get the correct package on the PPA first and then see what we do with REVU.
<av`> do you know that when you upload an X package version 1.0-1 into PPA, the next X package upload should have the version bumped?
<timmie> > did you bump the version after the change on control?
<timmie> What do you mean? I edited the control and send the file after running debuild
<av`> that's wrong
<av`> you need to add a new changelog entry for that
<timmie> and increment the version number?
<av`> yes exactly
<av`> the debian revision number not the upstream one
<av`> pay attention to this detail
<timmie> I see that the part "making changes to your  package" needs more attention in the guide.
<timmie> So whenever I edit control or rules I would need to change the chnagelog file as well?
<av`> you need to document what you change
<av`> otherwise no one will ever know why you changed something
<av`> this happens when you have uploaded a certain revision already
<timmie> could you give me an example of a debian version number ?
<av`> if not you should have a changelog entry available to modify already
<av`> let's say I'm packaging a foo package upstream version 1.0
<timmie> yes.
<av`> the first revision will be 1.0-1
<av`> where 1 is the debian revision and 1.0 the upstream one
<av`> you do some changes, you make up a new changelog entry and you'll have 1.0-2
<av`> :)
<av`> I don't go further explaining you other strange versioning stuff since I see you are learning
<timmie> would I need to change the version of the source tarball as well?
<av`> anyway please use something like ~ppa1 when you upload to PPA
<av`> or something like that
<av`> no
<av`> the tarball has the upstream versioning only in it
<timmie> so I now have
<timmie> spyder (1.0.1-1) karmic; urgency=l
<av`> foo_1.0.orig.tar.gz for istance
<timmie> I should change into
<timmie> spyder (1.0.1-2) karmic; urgency=l
<timmie> correct?
<av`> then will be 1.0.1-2
<av`> yes
<av`> add ~ppa1
<av`> or ~timmie1
<av`> :)
<av`> so it will be 1.0.1-2~ppa1 or 1.0.1-2~timmie1 :)
<av`> that's nice to do, if not people will have problems updating packages that come from the archive
<timmie> nice, will try that.
<timmie> could you also help me with lintian?
<av`> yes
<timmie> here is a buildlog:
<timmie> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/spyder-0911251542/lintian
<timmie> What had happened there?
<av`> watch file is missing, but that's your choice to have it or not
<av`> standards are outdated, not really a problem since it will go into a PPA
<av`> you miss the python dep, this is different if your package uses pycentral or pysupport
<timmie> > standards are outdated, not really a problem since it will go into a PPA
<timmie> at the end I wouldlike to send it to REVU and not to a PPA.
<timmie> therefore, how do I set the correct standards?
<av`> latest standards available are 3.8.3
<av`> so just update them
<timmie> I don't understand this:
<fabrice_sp> jdong, sru for Bug #458171 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 458171 in iriverter "needs to depend on libswt-gtk-3.5-java" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458171
<fabrice_sp> bigon, ping
<jdong> fabrice_sp: you're acked.
<fabrice_sp> thanks jdong :-)
<jdong> sure thing
<\sh> micahg, zend-framework 1.9.6 is reaching lucid just now ... you can start to do some test backports for karmic, jaunty, intrepid and hardy :)
<micahg> \sh: it'll probably be tomorrow sometime before I get to it, is that ok?
<micahg> probably early morning
<micahg> actually, maybe I'll do karmic now
<micahg> is there a backporting script?
<\sh> micahg, nope...normally I'm doing all those manually...
<micahg> ok
<micahg> \sh: just dch -e and modify the version and target?
<\sh> micahg, right :)
<micahg> \sh: ok, looks like it's still making it's way into lucid, I'll check back a little later
<\sh> micahg, no rush...
 * \sh goes back to his rollout of new software 
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-26
<jdong> ah quadrispro just left.
<jdong> I was gonna hand out today's amusing SRU debdiff of the day award
<jdong> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36055807/xvidcap_1.1.7-0.2ubuntu5.1-SRU.patch
<Laney> O_O
<ajmitch> jdong: that is an interesting way to do it
<jdong> yup.
<micahg> jdong: what's the procedure where there's a version in proposed and I have another patch?
<micahg> jdong: sorry if I missed your response
<\sh> damn...for our rollout tonight, we needed the new  puppet release from karmic...good that I have a buildserver
<ajmitch> \sh: working late?
<jdong> micahg: wait for the SRU to fully verify and go into -updates
<jdong> and then start the new SRU against that.
<micahg> jdong: ok, I guess I can't do my SRU then until the other one goes through
<\sh> ajmitch, software rollout tonight :) so nightshift :(
<jdong> micahg: correct
<micahg> can I prepare and test on top of it in a PPA?
<ajmitch> \sh: luckily rollouts for me wouldn't take that long
<\sh> ajmitch, 32 BL465cG5 + 16 DL385G5P + 16 DL365G5 + some other crappy machines named fujitsu siemens
<\sh> ajmitch, god knows, that I'm an automation fetishist .. FAI + Puppet rocks
<ajmitch> well you'd want at least some automation with that many machines
<\sh> ajmitch, but two drbd splitbrains on some database machines keeps my blood pressure up ;)
<ajmitch> you can't get too bored or they'll replace you ;)
<\sh> ajmitch, teamlead of us didn't want automation...good that I'm not compatible with those PoV and I'm not following my boss...no clue this guy
<ajmitch> he wants everything done & repeated ad nauseam on every machine?
<\sh> ajmitch, yes
<ajmitch> I guess if he wants to spend a week doing it..
<\sh> ajmitch, that was former world order here
<ajmitch> now it's work for 1 evening & relax for a week, I hope :)
 * ajmitch wonders if the new package sets are visible in the LP UI
<\sh> ajmitch, next update is already knocking at our door
<nhandler> ajmitch: You can view the package sets here if you want: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/packagesets
 * nhandler isn't sure how up-to-date that is though
<ajmitch> nhandler: thanks, I was just waiting for bzr to give me a branch to dig into it :)
<wgrant> ajmitch: No, no UI.
<wgrant> Although one might spring up soonish, since the schema is finalised.
<ajmitch> if someone has time & cares enough for it
<ajmitch> I'm just trying to understand how this'll affect various upload rights
<wgrant> Component permissions override all, so this is a purely additive move.
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> looks like those package sets needs a bit of refining
<ajmitch> I'd have expected ubuntu-server to include apache2, and not packages like gst0.10-python :)
<cdahmedeh> hello
<cdahmedeh> i'm interesting in creating and maintaining packages for ubuntu... I have one year experience with linux.. but not much for packaging
<cdahmedeh> where do I start ?
<cdahmedeh> I know how to compile programs and manage dependencies
<cdahmedeh> I mainly interesting in creating packages that are requested by users but not yet included in the default repos
<ajmitch> the packaging guide is a good start for that
<ajmitch> it's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing#Preparing New Packages
<cdahmedeh> ok
<cdahmedeh> thanks
<cdahmedeh> for a beginner .. what type of programs should i start packaging ? should I avoid big programs that have fancy installation methods
<cdahmedeh> and just stick to the ones that work with make and make install ?
<cdahmedeh> until i get more experience ?
<ajmitch> most of them will be based around autotools, something more complex will probably lead to frustration
<cdahmedeh> i guess i will need to keep contact with both ubuntu and debian packagers
<cdahmedeh> because the packages need to be included first in debian and then ubuntu
<cdahmedeh> right ?
<ajmitch> it's generally suggested to do it that way
<cdahmedeh> is there a specific category where package maintainers are lacking ?
<cdahmedeh> where the is help needed ?
<cdahmedeh> there is*
<ajmitch> probably more with fixing bugs than bringing in new packages :)
<cdahmedeh> :) !
<cdahmedeh> filling bugs are very important very true
<cdahmedeh> most people don't realise that the developers are quick at fixing after reporting them
<cdahmedeh> so they don't even file the report
<cdahmedeh> and sometimes the bugs need to be reported at the proper website. it's not always launchpad
<cdahmedeh> anyways.. i will start reading the documentation on my time
<cdahmedeh> and see what packages i can start with
<cdahmedeh> thank you very much
<ajmitch> alright, there's often people around here if you have questions
<cdahmedeh> ok.. any other irc channels that i should frequent for this type of stuff ?
<ajmitch> #ubuntu-devel, but here is more appropriate for general questions
<cdahmedeh> perfect
<cdahmedeh> take care
<cdahmedeh> bye
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> if i make a Linux-Libre deb, what would i have to do to get it into the repos?
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, around?
<ScottK> meoblast001: What is it?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, 'morning :-)
<meoblast001> ScottK: Linux-Libre?
<mannyv> should be 'night here :-)
<ScottK> meoblast001: Yes.
<meoblast001> it's Linux with all the nonfree components (hex firmwares) stripped
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<meoblast001> the FSFLA (FSF Latin America) made it
<meoblast001> and they maintain it as well
<mannyv> i was wondering, since you have been the one to sponsor almost all of my sync requests, is attaching the build log helpful for you
<mannyv> is it something i should keep doing?
<ScottK> meoblast001: I think the non-free firmware is already separated into a separate package in Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what the point would be.
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, I always build again the debian package (I don't trust what sponsoree attach, except the debdiff :-D )
<ScottK> meoblast001: There's even a free software only option in the installer if you want to avoid all non-free stuff.
<fabrice_sp> I was think about a script that make that in a automatic way (even subscribe to the launchpad bug report :-D )
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, ^
<meoblast001> ScottK: from my understanding, this is not a fully free Linux
<mannyv> to make attaching the build log automatic?
<meoblast001> ScottK: by "free software only" that means everything except for Linux from what i'm told
<ScottK> meoblast001: Then file bugs.  It should be.  I don't think carrying an entire duplicate kernel is a great idea.
<meoblast001> ScottK: the bug is already known of
<ScottK> meoblast001: That was once the case, but there's a separate restricted linux-firmware package.
<meoblast001> there has to be a seperate kernel package
<ScottK> meoblast001: Is it filed in Launchpad?
<meoblast001> the firmware is in many cases compiled into the kernel
<meoblast001> ScottK: yes
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, no: to get the package from Debian (dget), and compile it. I also always install it, and try to play with it, but that part cannot be made automatically
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, oh because u was going to say i have actually modified my version of requestsync so that i can do that, works with launchpad api but not email yet
<meoblast001> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/370675
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 370675 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Linux Libre kernel" [Wishlist,In progress]
<ScottK> meoblast001: IIRC what this is about is removing the ability to use non-free firmware if a user chooses to and not actually removing firmware.
<ScottK> meoblast001: I mean bugs against the existing kernel.
<meoblast001> ?
<meoblast001> oh no
<RAOF> meoblast001: How is that different to the ongoing Debian project of shifting the firmware out of the kernel and into linux-firmware?
<ScottK> RAOF: Much of which we've already done.
<RAOF> ScottK: Indeed.
<meoblast001> i know gNewSense shifted to LinuxLibre
<ScottK> RAOF: It's about removing the ability to use non-free firmware at all.
<RAOF> ScottK: In what way does that make the kernel more free?
<ScottK> RAOF: It doens't
<meoblast001> i haven't looked through all of Linux's source, but i know that if there wasn't still a problem with it, LinuxLibre wouldn't still be under development
<ScottK> meoblast001: That's an interesting way to look at the problem.
<meoblast001> i'm not going to lie, i haven't looked through all the code of Linux
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, a "Sponsor this" script would make sense :-) It would unsubscribe u-u-s, subscribe you, mark as in Progress, and load the "wishlist" importance :-D I njeed to have a look at ubuntu-dev-tools, or whatever is his name
<ScottK> meoblast001: It takes a significant maintenance commitment to keep an alternate kernel tree in sync with the Ubuntu kernel.  There is a group that does this already for the Ubuntu Studio real time kernel.  I doubt we would be willing to accept yet another kernel without a team to keep it updated.
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, and check what exists
<meoblast001> ScottK: i did read though that the shift of firmware out of the kernel into seperate packages is the longterm goal, but until then (it isn't completed yet), a seperate kernel, LinuxLibre, exists
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, sounds like a good idea, i would like that... if i could sponsor
<ScottK> meoblast001: If there is still non-free firmware in our kernel, it's a bug.  Just identify what needs to be moved (in bug reports) and it should get dealt with.
<meoblast001> ok
<RAOF> Thinking of (potentially) non-free (kinda) firmware, I wonder how we're going to deal with nouveau.
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, :-D All comes with time ;-)
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, yeah im not trying to rush it, i still have a lot to learn about how everything fits together
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, after participating to a full release cycle, everything makes sense :-) And we all have a lot ot learn ;-)
<meoblast001> RAOF: i know a Nouveau dev, he said it's coming along well
<meoblast001> RAOF: they will have it deblobbed in a few weeks
<nxvl> ScottK: courier is complaining about 2 .mo files
<nxvl> ScottK: did you know anything about it?
<nxvl> ScottK: the error is a sanity check in the rules file AFAIK
<ScottK> nxvl: Nope.
<nxvl> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36034994/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.courier_0.63.0-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> nxvl: I'd suggest a bad merge and something got duplicated, perhaps.
<nxvl> ScottK: /build/buildd/courier-0.63.0/debian/tmp/usr/share/locale/{de,sv}/LC_MESSAGES/pcp.mo
<nxvl> ScottK: it seems to me that it's a translations something
<ScottK> It is.
<ScottK> nxvl: I'm not sure what to do about that.
<fabrice_sp> bug 487876 has been rejected, because the orig tarball is different between Ubuntu and Debian, and I've been asked to do a 'fakesync'. Where can I find information on how doing a fakesync?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 487876 in checkgmail "Sync checkgmail 1.13+svn43-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/487876
<fabrice_sp> is it like a 'false' merge (ie. no changes in Ubuntu)?
<StevenK> fabrice_sp: I knew that was going to come up :-)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> sorry to bug you about htat StevenK :-)
<StevenK> fabrice_sp: The first step is find out why the orig tarballs are different
<fabrice_sp> it's my firs fake sync ;-)
<fabrice_sp> ok
<fabrice_sp> it's becaue the date of the man directory (the day it has been exported, it seems) :-/ but the content is the same
<fabrice_sp> so I think the Ubuntu orig tarball can be substituted with the Debian one
<fabrice_sp> StevenK, ^
<ajmitch> the problem is that there's already a version with that tarball in the archive
<fabrice_sp> that's where the fakesync comes, I suppose
<ajmitch> so you can't just go from one ubuntu revision to a new debian revision, keeping the upstream version the same with a different tarball
<ajmitch> yep
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, i have been looking at these two tarballs and i cannot find any differences
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, neither do I :-)
<mannyv> ScottK, ^
<ScottK> md5sum tarball.orig.tar.gz
<fabrice_sp> so ajmitch, how do you perform this 'fakesync', knowing that there is no difference right now between the 2 packages (debian directory)
<ScottK> You'll get different results.
<mannyv> sorry ScottK ignore tha
<fabrice_sp> is it worth it? The fakesync. Maybe, we should just wait for another new upstream version
<ScottK> fabrice_sp: Take the Ubuntu tarball, unpack it, add the debian/dir from the Debian version of the package, and then add an ubuntu1 entry in debian changelog that says * Fakesync due to different orig.tar.gz md5sums
<ScottK> So you end up with the Ubuntu tarball and the Debian packaging in one source package.
<ajmitch> what ScottK said ^^ (I got distracted by shinies)
<fabrice_sp> ok. thanks to all!
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, i still wonder why they have different md5sums. I untared both of them into separate directories and  and checked the md5sums for each file individually and they are identical. I guess they must  have tared or gzipped differently?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, the date of the man directory is different
<fabrice_sp> everything else is identical :-)
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, nice spot!
<mannyv> so out of curiosity if we can see that the only difference between the two is the date of a directory, why can't we just sync with the debian version?
<ScottK> Because once an orig.tar.gz is in the archive, we don't allow it's md5sum to change.  It's a security/archive consistency feature.
<ScottK> It's not a big deal, just fakesync until the next upstream and then sync for real when that's in Debian.
<mannyv> ScottK, i was just curious to know why. There are so many little things that are not really written anywhere (or at least the major first exposure documents) so it helps for my own note keeping/memory
<LucidFox> Grr. This upstream promised me that he would ship a copy of the GPL in the next release. Out it comes, with no GPL file in sight again.
<micahg> how long does something last in -proposed before it's pushed to updates?
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, don't get scared about strange things happening to bug 488227: I'm experimenting with python and lp integration :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488227 in software-properties "IndexError: list index out of range" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488227
<ScottK> mannyv: As I mentioned, security and archive consistency.  While verified non-differences like this are harmless, the md5sum check gives us a good way to make sure the contents of a package release don't change once they are in the archive either accidentally or on purpose.
<fabrice_sp> hmm, 488427
<micahg> ScottK: how long does something last in -proposed before it's pushed to updates?
<StevenK> micahg: Roughly 10 days or so
<StevenK> micahg: But it needs a few people to say it's good, and no one saying it isn't
<micahg> hmmm, what if something's been there 3 weeks?
<ScottK> micahg: Is it marked verified?
<micahg> hmm, let me see
<ScottK> It's minimum time and tested both
<micahg> ah, no one verified
<micahg> it's not my patch, but I want to push one through after it
<fabrice_sp> micahg, just test then that it's fixing the bug, and it will make it quicker :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: it's actually one of your SRUs :)
<fabrice_sp> micahg, really?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> for UIM
<fabrice_sp> tell me which, and I'll check
<micahg> bug 460280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460280 in uim "package uim-qt3 (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/uim.mo', which is also in package libuim-data 1:1.5.6-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460280
<micahg> I'll be back in about an  hour
<fabrice_sp> ok: I'll check that it's really fixed in -proposed
<fabrice_sp> ok
<micahg> great, thanks, then I can work on getting my fix into -proposed
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<mannyv> g'night  all
<fabrice_sp> g'night mannyv
<fabrice_sp> jdong, one more SRU: bug 481732 :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 481732 in luciole "Webcam acquisition does not work on luciole under karmic" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/481732
<cjwatson> ajmitch: the package sets are generated from seeds. If there's weirdness, it just reflects weirdness in the seeds and the archive. apache2 is in core because stuff all over the place needs it
<ajmitch> cjwatson: fair enough, I assume these will just get cleaned up over time as needed
<cjwatson> sometimes it's intrinsic
<LucidFox> If the upstream tarball includes Qt .qm translations, should I remove them and generate them from .ts files during build, or leave them as is?
<cjwatson> the ubuntu-server package set isn't "everything that's useful on the server", it's "things that don't affect the whole world and that are used on the server"
<ajmitch> it's mostly my misunderstanding of what the package sets are then :)
<dholbach> good morning
<siretart`> hey folks!
<dholbach> hey siretart, siretart`
<siretart`> heh
<siretart`> I should probably just shut down my irssi client and convert fully to rcirc...
<highvoltage> good morning
<highvoltage> siretart`: people often lose a whole day when switching IRC clients :)
<dholbach> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> heya dholbach
<DktrKranz> highvoltage: and sometimes a whole server, (iptables + ENTER key pressed too quick) :)
<highvoltage> DktrKranz: heh :)
<gaspa> fabrice_sp_: are you planning work on hk_classes?
<slytherin> Has anyone seen this weird problem of blank fstab file? I found a bug on LP but there is no info on how to fix it.
<m4rtin> slytherin: this is not really the correct channel; try the main ubuntu channel
<flower> can I make a backport for a amd64 using launchpad? I have a 32 bit myself
<micahg> flower: PPA questions should be in #launchpad
<flower> using this method: http://pastebin.com/m6fa3a5e1
<m4rtin> anyone have any information about progress on the main sponsor queue; submitted a patch almost 2 weeks ago with no further comment (appreciate that last week was hectic)
<slytherin> m4rtin: I don't expect anyone there to know about this. Anyway, this is usually the channel I lurk in so I asked the question.
<slytherin> flower: PPAs build binary for i386, amd64 and lpia. All you have to do is upload the source package.
<micahg> slytherin: that's what I said in #launchpad :)
<slytherin> ttx: there? need to discuss porting of jug to Debian
<ttx> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> ttx: the C files in the source do not have specific copyright notices. But the CREDITS file mentions who provided which code. Is that acceptible?
 * ttx looks
<ttx> slytherin: istr Tatu Saloranta holds copyright
<ttx> slytherin: that's why I only mentioned the others in the "Authors" list
 * ttx looks deeper
<slytherin> ttx: overall. But it looks like these files were contributed by other people. Check release-notes/CREDITS
<ttx> In most cases that CREDITS is more about someone pointing out a defect rather than contributing a chuck of code
<ttx> release-notes/README lists real authors
<slytherin> but in this case it actually lists who contributed the code
<slytherin> in any case, do you have any idea if files without copyright are acceptable?
<ttx> slytherin: "Leonid Kunin: suggested adding 2 constructors (that were missing)"
<ttx> looks like a bug report rather than written code
<ttx> slytherin: well, they were accepted in Ubuntu, so they should certainly be acceptable
<ttx> slytherin: though we would very much prefer clear copyright info
<slytherin> Do you think I should mail upstream?
<ttx> slytherin: If you can link every C file to an author in CREDITS, I think it's acceptable
<slytherin> ttx: then that is already done.
<ttx> slytherin: mailing upstream cannot hurt, but I wouldn't block on that :)
<slytherin> ttx: You wouldn't, but FTP masters in Debian might. :-)
<ttx> might. :)
<alkisg> Hi, a packaging question: I'm looking to make 2 packages, one "server" and one "client" (to be installed in school servers and clients respectively). Those two packages will share some source code. What would be better, using a different debian directory for each package, or using a single debian directory and a single control file for both of them?
<joaopinto> alkisg, if they are both build from a single source you should use a multi binary package, a single debian generating multiple .debs
<alkisg> joaopinto: Thanks. I'd like to build from the same code tree. But, if I change something that only affects the server package, wouldn't also the client package bump to a new version, with no changes at all?
<joaopinto> unless you see foresee the need for different sources for each of the components
<alkisg> E.g. I change my-server.py, so I get a server 2.0 package, why should the client also get to 2.0 version since my-client.py wasn't changed?
<alkisg> (sorry my English is a little poor...)
<joaopinto> alkisg, it would, I believe you can force a specific version for the target binary package, but never tried
<joaopinto> bumping the version because a piece of the source was changed is common and not usually a matter of concern :)
<alkisg> Could I just upload only the server package to launchpad?
<alkisg> No it's not the version per se that concerns me, it's the unnecessary client updates
<slytherin> alkisg: only source packages are uploaded. binaries are build on build servers.
<alkisg> E.g. if the package is 1 Mb, all the clients will download and install 1 Mb without anything changed...
<alkisg> slytherin: ah, so both would be build, right ... :-/
<slytherin> alkisg: don't people read changelog before applying updates?
<alkisg> Well, nope, teachers don't do that :) (PPAs also don't help, the changelogs don't show up to the update manager)
<alkisg> Thanks - I'm not looking to innovate here, I was just looking for the usual solution
<joaopinto> alkisg, you have to choose, either you have extra work by keeping two different source packages, or you force both components to be upgraded
<joaopinto> alkisg, 1MB is a big binary :P
<alkisg> It's just some Kb, it was a figure of speech :)
<joaopinto> alkisg, and do those few KBs justify the extra work :) ?
<alkisg> Nope :)
<alkisg> Am I right in that both of the packages will share a common changelog?
<alkisg> I.e. "version 2.0: updated server.py" ==> will that show up in the client package?
<joaopinto> alkisg, packaging changelog yes
<alkisg> OK, thanks guys for clearing all that up for me. Much appreciated! :)
<joaopinto> alkisg, and if you have common code, you probably want to move that to a lib* :)
<alkisg> Ehm, and the lib would be build from the same control/changelog as well, right?
<alkisg> Ty!
<joaopinto> alkisg, right
<timmi> hello, what do need to change to make this build:
<timmi> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/36108620/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.scikits.timeseries_0.91.3-2~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz?
<pmcenery> I'm trying to build a package from scratch which requires an environment variable to be set. The environment variable is to define a directory used during the build process. I am seeeing this near the top of debian/rules: SmartEifel=$(CURDIR)/serc.build
<pmcenery> This variable seems to be getting lost before the make command is run. Is there another way I should be doing this?
<cyphermox> pmcenery, try it as "export SmartEifel := $(CURDIR)/serc.build ?
<geser> timmi: try adding python-setuptools to your Build-Depends
<pmcenery> cyphermox: thanks. I am using CDDBS. Should that be above or below the "include" lines?
<cyphermox> pmcenery, I don't think it matters
<pmcenery> cyphermox: thanks... that has worked!
<cyphermox> pmcenery: np :)
<pmcenery> Are there any guidelines about when/how packages should be split into lib* and any other packages like doc?
<cyphermox> pmcenery, there are
<cyphermox> pmcenery, you should look at the Debian Policy Manual... if you give me a sec I'll get you a link
<cyphermox> pmcenery, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
<cyphermox> pmcenery, it's chapters 8 and 12; globally you'll want to separate your libraries in libname1 (lib<soname> packages, with the development files (.h, .la, etc) in libname-dev, and your documentation in name-doc or libname-doc
<pmcenery> cyphermox: thank you for that. I'll check it out
<pmcenery> I just picked a package from the debian WNPP and have started packaging it. I think I have got quite far. I probably didnt choose the easiest one there. I'm now looking into resolving issues where it doesnt do a standard make install :(
<slytherin> is there any list of package sets in archives as per new reorg? I am wondering how java packagea are classified.
<patrickcage> Hi all - I'm completely new to IRC so be patient with me please :-)
<patrickcage> I would like to start helping to contribute back to the Ubuntu Community, anyone have advice?
<patrickcage> BTW, I am not a programmer :-(
<SevenMachines> i suppose the best first step is reporting bugs(?)
<SevenMachines> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<SevenMachines> or if/when you feel more comfortable, triaging bugs
<SevenMachines> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
<mannyv> patrickcage, ^ i was going to say the same thing
<mannyv> patrickcage, also if you speak multiple languages you can contribute translations
<researcher> :-[Hello everybody
<hyperair> hello
<hyperair> something the matter?
<researcher> how can I speka to one or many here?
<hyperair> you're speaking to one here
<hyperair> when more people appear, you may speak to many here
<researcher> thanks
<researcher> can I expect some help here about edubuntu?
<hyperair> if it's to do with development, probably
<hyperair> for support, i'd point you to #ubuntu
<hyperair> or #edubuntu even
<researcher> wanna a picture  to stay at the bottom of the screen  while a kid logs into edubuntu and studies
<hyperair> right, for those kinda questions, it's best to ask in #edubuntu. (i don't know the answer)
<researcher> thanks
<researcher> i will join edubuntu
<patrickcage> mannyv, thanks for your input (sorry for delay was away from pc)
<patrickcage> SevenMachines thanks for your input too
<SevenMachines> no worries, good luck!
<hedkandi> hello!
<hedkandi> i have TWO packages yes two on revu and I'm here to advertise them and get people to look at them
<hedkandi> The first is a gui editor for rss feeds called rssedit
<hedkandi> The second is a command-line app for querying the gnome-keyring daemon
<hedkandi> both are written in C++
<hedkandi> aren't they great!!
<hedkandi> the latter is called gkp
<hedkandi> The world of linux SO needs this fine software!
<hedkandi> okay well I'm going back to work. work work.
 * popey wonders if someone can help him with a packaging issue. 
<popey> I have a package which builds for karmic and jaunty for my ppa and using pbuilder-dist, just fine
<popey> but it barfs when building for hardy with a debhelper error..
<popey> http://shellinabox.googlecode.com/issues/attachment?aid=1700113005853053268&name=hardybuildfail.txt
<jmarsden> popey: What version of debhelper does it need?
<av`> popey, which compat level did you specify?
<popey>  debhelper (>= 4.0.0),
<av`> popey, seems that dh doesnt support the level you used to build that package
<popey> its not my package
<popey> where is the level specified?
<av`> popey, debian/compat file
<popey> it says 7
<popey> should it be a lower value for hardy?
<av`> hardy got an old dh release so yes
<av`> lower it and you're done
<popey> excellent
<av`> to something <= 6
<ajmitch> if it needs debhelper 7 features, then you need to have debhelper 7 available
<jmarsden> If debian/compat is 7, then your Depends on debhelper that says debhelper (>= 4.0.0)  needs adjusting.
<av`> ajmitch, I don't think this is the case
<av`> I guess he will be just fine with having it at level 6
<av`> or even lower
<ajmitch> av`: nor do I, but it took a couple of minutes for me to fetch the build failure :)
<av`> ah ok, np then :)
<av`> jmarsden, your approach is not the best one
<av`> jmarsden, if he's building for hardy is better to lower the compat level
<av`> not the dh level itself
<popey> win!
<popey> thanks for being super quick and helpful everyone!
<av`> np :)
<av`> and have fun packaging!
<jmarsden> av`: The point is that the compat level and the Depends should be the same, right... compat says 6, Depends: should be on 6 also...
<popey> av`: I'm really enjoying it tbh :)
<popey> built a few bits and bobs for people, nothing major, but it's all good
<av`> jmarsden, yes, but he is not packaging anything that will go into the archive
<av`> it's for his own purpose
<jmarsden> av`: OK.
<av`> so I guess popey doesnt care about proper packaging :)
<popey> :)
<popey> one day
<av`> popey, just train a lot
<av`> and you'll make it
<av`> popey, anyway just remember that the compat level should go along with the dh version
<popey> will do
<av`> popey, you specify into debian/control
<av`> popey, so if you lower the dh level on debian/control you need to lower the compat level
<av`> as well
<av`> :)
<leonel> hello ... I have a package  https://launchpad.net/~cherokee-webserver/+archive/ppa   but this package generates a  /var/lib/cherokee/graphs  I need that this directory get chowned  by   www-data   I've added a chown to debian/rules but no luck ..
<flower> what is the orig.tar.gz file?
<av`> leonel, have a look at dpkg-stateovveride
<av`> flower, is the tarball that contains upstream files
<flower> av`: and diff.gz?
<leonel> http://pastebin.com/db610b57
<av`> flower, the modifications you added
<leonel> this is how the  rules are ..
<av`> flower, the diff that gonna be applied to the orig
<flower> av`: right, and the *.dsc?
<av`> flower, usually contains some data, like the source format, the maintainers, the build-depends, the md5sums of other files etc
<leonel> av`: do you mean  to  add dpkg-stateoverride
<leonel> av`:  to debian/rules ?
<av`> leonel, read the man page of dpkg-stateoverride :)
<av`> leonel, you'll know how to use it, which syntax it uses and much more
<av`> :)
<leonel> av`:   no man page and package installed  looking for that man page somewhere else  thanks
<av`> leonel, http://man-wiki.net/index.php/8:dpkg-statoverride
<av`> leonel, or read the docs on debian developers references
<leonel> av`: thanks
<av`> leonel, np :)
<ajmitch> looking for dpkg-statoverride rather than dpkg-stateoverride will help :)
<leonel> plop .. thanks
<av`> ajmitch, lol yes, I misspelled it
<leonel> reading the docs  when I first install my package where do I tell apt-get / dpkg to run  dpkg-statoverride ?? in  debian/rules ??
<av`> leonel, yes, that's something that should be ran into debian/rules
<leonel> av`:  statoverride better be run from  a postinst script right ?
<av`> leonel, not sure, never used it myself yet, I know that these kind of work can be done through it
<av`> but never hacked more with it
<av`> maybe ajmitch can help you, don't know his personal experience with it though
<av`> leonel, but I guess it's quite the same, be sure you run it in the proper target in debian/rules and it should do the trick
<leonel> av`: thanks
<av`> leonel, but the Debian Developer referenfers have some more hints
<av`> leonel, using chmod or chown it's not that nice, since it won't work after upgrading the package
<av`> leonel, it work for the first package but if someone tries to upgrade it, what you wanted won't happen again
<av`> that's why we have dpkg-statovveride for these kind of stuff
<leonel> av`: thanks
<av`> leonel, np
<leonel> l3g0nz01d3
<leonel> you did not see that ....
 * ajmitch wipes memory of any such *publically-logged* information
<surfzoid> Hi
<surfzoid> sorry, i already asked the question but forget the link, where synaptic take the source of screenshot ?
 * popey needs to file a "needs-packaging" bug but isn't sure of the process..
<popey> for a package to go to debian and ubuntu, wondering what the best thing to do is
<surfzoid> i used the lauchpad
<c_korn> where does packages.ubuntu.com take the translated descriptions from ?
<c_korn> surfzoid: synaptic and software center take it from here: http://screenshots.debian.net/
<av`> popey, open an ITP bug
<popey> on debian?
<surfzoid> c_korn: thank you
<av`> popey, if you gonna take care of having it done personally
<av`> popey, yes
<popey> I'm not a dd though
<popey> (clearly) :)
<av`> popey, mentors.d.o is meant for that :)
<popey> ah
<surfzoid> c_korn: that s mean if i would like to see a screenshot of my own software how i proceed ?
<popey> mentors.debian.org?
<popey> invalid domain
<c_korn> surfzoid: if you upload it there it should appear in synaptic/software-center
<av`> d.n sorry
<av`> :)
<popey> thanks
<av`> popey, when the package its ready, register to that service
<av`> popey, and upload it there, then set it as 'Needs Sponsor: yes'
<av`> and then wait
<surfzoid> c_korn: the problem is, my two software are not in the database of http://screenshots.debian.net/
<RainCT> c_korn: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu
<RainCT> surfzoid: I'm afraid you can't set a screenshot for it if the package isn't in Debian
<surfzoid> RainCT: hÃ©hÃ© yes and few week ago i asked to build them in ubuntu, that means they also go in debian if they are build
<av`> surfzoid, what do you mean with 'if they get built, they go to debian also'?
<surfzoid> i must admit, i m new in deb world and be confuse between ubuntu and debian,
<surfzoid> if an ubuntu maintener build my soft, we will see them in ubuntu and debian too ?
<ajmitch> no, it's the other way round - packages added to debian end up in ubuntu
<surfzoid> haha
<surfzoid> so the launchpad where we request to build a package need to take it from debian .
<av`> surfzoid, not sure what you mean
<av`> synced packages are taken from Debian, that why we have a process called Debian Import
<av`> merged ones too, but we apply Ubuntu changes in them
<av`> e.g we merge any remaining delta into the package and we upload it
<surfzoid> av`: so it is diff than the one i used : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/443398 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443398 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] MonoOSC" [Wishlist,New]
<av`> surfzoid, you are a bit confused, aren't you? :)
<surfzoid> isn't it :D
<av`> have you made that package already?
<surfzoid> yes
<surfzoid> av`: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/
<av`> I don't see any diff, orig, dsc file attached to the bug, moreover new packages are handled through REVU
<surfzoid> all this files are here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/surfzoid:/DebianUbuntu/
<av`> again that's a repo, so it usually store already built stuff
<av`> e.g it's a binary repo only, no sources
<av`> if you want to have it in Ubuntu, you need to send it to REVU
<av`> and then wait for a review of two Ubuntu Developers
<surfzoid> av`: where is REVU ?
<av`> surfzoid, http://revu.ubuntuwire.org
<surfzoid> i don't see how to use it, too mutch info , really kill info
<c_korn> RainCT: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-27
<mannyv> hi fabrice_sp
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, Hi :-)
<mannyv> im looking over bug 488417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488417 in imagej "Sync imagej 1.43g-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488417
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, ok. I think the actual package also fails in lucid
<fabrice_sp> but if we can fix it, better :-)
<fabrice_sp> (or even better: report to Debian the fix ;-) )
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, the problem is this line: JAVA_HOME=$(dirname $(dirname $(dirname $(readlink /etc/alternatives/java))))
<mannyv> it does not produce the same result as it does in karmic
<fabrice_sp> mannyv, that's what I've seen, yes
<fabrice_sp> but why?
<fabrice_sp> :-D
<mannyv> fabrice_sp, so if i replace that file with  JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj it runs but then it crashes with a null pointer exception
<fabrice_sp> :-/
<mannyv> if i install openjdk-6-jre it runs fine
<mannyv> with no changes
<fabrice_sp> so maybe, we should change the package dependency?
<mannyv> that happens to be what JAVA_HOME=$(dirname $(dirname $(dirname $(readlink /etc/alternatives/java)))) points to for me in karmic
<mannyv> i could try that, but java packages confuse me
<fabrice_sp> and in lucid? here. the result is /
<mannyv> yeah
<mannyv> and readlink /etc/alternatives/java points to /usr/bin/gij-4.4
<fabrice_sp> exactly: that's why the hack does not work
<fabrice_sp> 3 times dirname gives you /
<fabrice_sp> it's a really ugly hack :-/
<mannyv> yean in karmic at least for me it points to /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java
<mannyv> but imagine that could vary depending on which jre people decide to run
<fabrice_sp> yes: that's the point. Did you check how it's done in the unstable version?
<fabrice_sp> 1.43k
<mannyv> ill check now
<fabrice_sp> thanks :-D
<mannyv> it does it the same way: JAVA_HOME=$(dirname $(dirname $(dirname $(readlink /etc/alternatives/java))))
<fabrice_sp> so this is something that should be fixed, then
<mannyv> yeah i just test built and installed 1.43k and it is broken there too
<mannyv> also i installed 1.43g in karmic and it runs fine
<fabrice_sp> yeah: default java interpreter has changed...
<mannyv> but when i change it so that JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj  instead of open-6-jre
<mannyv> it also crashes with null pointer
<mannyv> so i am thinking that changing it so it depends on openjdk-6 instead of java-gcj will fix our problems
<fabrice_sp> could you try with /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj-4.4 ?
<mannyv> /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj is a symlink to /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj-4.4
<fabrice_sp_> sorry: got disconnected
<mannyv> i said: /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj is a symlink to /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj-4.
<mannyv> err: /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj-4.4
<fabrice_sp_> yeah: that's the last thing I tried to type :-)
<fabrice_sp_> mannyv, the Debian version depends on openjdk-6-jdk (the binary part)
<mannyv> i got that message before you disconnected, dont worry i cant read your mind
<mannyv> really?
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<mannyv> this is what debian/control says for the binary: Depends: ${java:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, java-gcj-compat | java2-runtime
<fabrice_sp_> oh: the source package
<mannyv> but it Build-Depends: openjdk-6-jdk, cdbs, debhelper (>=7), ant, gif2png
<fabrice_sp_> yes
<fabrice_sp_> a bit strange, no? Build depends on a specific java compiler and run with whatecer your system has :-/
<mannyv> yeah
<mannyv> ok so i am going the binary dependency, do you think i should do  1.43g or k?
<mannyv> going t ochange*
<fabrice_sp_> I would say report to Debian :-D
<fabrice_sp_> with the null pointer exception, when running with java-gcj
<ScottK> Should probably go upstream too, I'd think.
<micahg> ScottK: \sh said to poke you about zend-framework backports
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  Is there a backports bug that says it builds/installs/runs?
<micahg> yep
<micahg> bug 488633
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 488633 in karmic-backports "Please backport zend-framework from Lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488633
<micahg> hmm
<micahg> installs, let me check :)
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> micahg: Once you've checked it builds/installs/runs on a release, mark that task confirmed and ping me again.
<micahg> ok, I only have karmic installed right now
<ScottK> Often you can test these in chroots.  If you plan to do a lot of backportings, having multiple VMs laying around is handy.
<micahg> ok
<ScottK> BTW, runs does not mean a complete functional evaluation, just that the packages starts and can do something useful.
<micahg> ScottK: it's a PHP library
<ScottK> Generally that's enough to know.
<mannyv> fabrice_sp_, so i changed it to depend on openjdk-6-jre and also changed it to ur updates-java-alternative instead of the dirname hack and it runs fine. I will report to debian with the fix
<micahg> ScottK: it seems to run my local site fine
<ScottK> micahg: OK.  Mark it in the bug.
<fabrice_sp_> mannyv, ok. Thanks!
<micahg> thanks ScottK
<mannyv> fabrice_sp_, thanks for taking the time to work through this with me
<ScottK> micahg: One more thing: Please edit the bug to include the exact version being requested/tested.
<fabrice_sp_> mannyv, yw. If you want more work, I have some merges pending ;-)
<micahg> ScottK: in the subject?
<ScottK> micahg: Subject or body, doesn't matter much.  Subject is probably slightly better.
<micahg> ScottK: done
 * micahg is still learning :)
<ScottK> micahg: No problem.  Approved.
<ScottK> No it'll wait for an archive admin with appropriate access to process the backport and put it into karmic-backports
<mannyv> fabrice_sp_, would you mark this grave,serious, or important?
<fabrice_sp_> mannyv, important
<fabrice_sp_> except if the default java is gcj
<mannyv> fabrice_sp_, should I link the launchpad sync bug to the debian bugreport?
<fabrice_sp_> hmmm, why not, yes
<mannyv> fabrice_sp_, ok linked did you do that fakesyn with checkgmail ?
<fabrice_sp_> mannyv, not yet: didn't had time :-)
<fabrice_sp_> the only advantage of that fakesync is that it states clearly in the changelog that this package can be synced. Actually, both packages are identical, so no rush ;-)
<mannyv> ok
<mannyv> was just checking up on the packages ive touched and remembered that one. So i will stop worrying about that one and leave it in your hands =)
<mannyv> and with that i am off to bed, gnight
<fabrice_sp_> g'night
<wrapster> if a pkg requires mercurial-common( >=1.3.0)  how do i add it to the control file .. can i just say mercurial-common or should i specify the version as well?
<wrapster> and is specifiying the version just for understandability purposes or something else to it?
<jmarsden> wrapster: It matters; specify the version if a particular version (or later) is needed, so the package will only install if such a version is available.
<wrapster> so is this the way i specify it "mercurial-common (>= 1.3.0)"
<jmarsden> Yes, that looks good to me.  lintian will complain if you mess it up :)
<MTecknology> Amaranth: If you're still after bug 410407; i just changed the description to hopefully help new bug reporters catch that instead of reporting a dupe
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree "[READ DESCRIPTION] Flash is not recognizing mouse clicks in multiple situations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410407
<micahg> \sh: are low prioirity bugs every SRUd for LTSs?
<\sh> micahg, I don't know...I'm trying to avoid SRUs ;)
<micahg> ah
<\sh> micahg, btw...thx for the backport requests :)
<micahg> ok
<micahg> \sh: np
<soren> micahg: If someone wants to work on them, sure.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> thanks soren
<ajmitch> 444
<timmi> hello, I have a question regarding dependencies:
<timmi> My control file contains:
<timmi> Depends: python-qscintilla2, python-qt4, ${python:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
<timmi> Recommends: pylint, python-scipy, python-numpy, python-matplotlib
<timmi> Now, a user installing from my PPA reports:
<timmi> [CODE]
<timmi> Setting up python2.5-minimal (2.5.4-1ubuntu6) ...
<timmi> Linking and byte-compiling packages for runtime python2.5...
<timmi> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py:104: Warning:
<timmi> 'with' will become a reserved keyword in Python 2.6
<timmi> Compiling /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py ...
<timmi>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py", line
<timmi> 104
<timmi>     with open(pane_svg_filename) as svg_file:
<timmi>             ^
<timmi> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<timmi> [/CODE]
<timmi> why do there errors with Python 2.5 arrise?
<soren> Because you're using python2.6 specific language features.
<soren> ...yet your package claims to work with 2.5.
<POX> timmi: from __future__ import with_statement
<timmi> the upstream source says that it works with Python (>= 2.5).
<timmi> so what should I use?
<POX> bump it to 2.6 or patch the code
<timmi> Is 2.6 default in Karcmic?
<timmi> is there a way I can upload a screenshot for my application?
<DktrKranz> timmi: yes, 2.6 is default in Karmic, for screenshots: screenshots.debian.net
<timmi> does screenshots.debian.net apply regardless where the application is hosted?
<timmi> PPA, Ubuntu, Debian?
<DktrKranz> it's relevant for Debian packages, which in turn are included in Ubuntu
<timmi> and PPA packages?
<DktrKranz> no, unless they're available in the archives already
<DktrKranz> say, with a lower or different version than the PPA one
<timmi> Is there any naming convention?
<timmi> if the upstream packages is called: scikits.timeseries, how shall I name the Ubuntu package?
<tsimpson> probably scikits-timeseries
<DktrKranz> dot are allowed in package names as well
<DktrKranz> *dots
<tsimpson> looks horrible though imo
<timmi> I noted that all python modules start with python-*
<timmi> IS this the official way?
<tsimpson> for python
<DktrKranz> for Python packaging is having python-$modulename, so module zope.whatever has packagename python-zope.whatever
<timmi> thanks. that helps.
<timmi> How do I create packages from a SVN or BZR repos, how do I create the source distribution?
<p3rror> is there any one experienced with snort
<p3rror> all i need is to add a second sensor ?
<timmi> just export the current status of the last revision and create a *.orig.tar.gz?
<timmi> BTW, thanks a lot to this channel.
<timmi> I could at least succed building all packages uploaded to the PPA
<fatal^> hello, I see gupnp has been synced with debian in lucid.... any chance you could sync in the newly added package called rygel as well ? :)
<randomaction> fatal^: it will be auto-synced from testing at some point
<fatal^> randomaction: "at some point" means its triggered by a "randomaction" ? .... j/k.... thanks. :)
<randomaction> by archive admins, I would say :)
<LucidFox> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geany/+bug/282972 <-- thoughts on this?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282972 in geany "'xterm' should be 'gnome-terminal' to be consistent in GNOME" [Undecided,Invalid]
<LucidFox> I don't think it was a good idea to unilaterally close the bug like this just because Geany isn't technically a GNOME application.
<cyberix> How do I suggest something for inclusion in main?
<slytherin> LucidFox: Ideally it should have x-terminal-emulator and not a specific app.
<slytherin> !mir | cyberix
<ubottu> cyberix: mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
<LucidFox> Works!
<LucidFox> I think we need a more user-friendly application to manage alternatives. galternatives hasn't been updated for a long while, and its UI is hideous.
<LucidFox> kalternatives seems to have been recently uploaded, though, I'll look at that one.
<SevenMachines> qbittorrent fails to start with missing symbols on lucid but this is fixed with a simple rebuild, how do you go about that? does it need a version bump to request a rebuild?
<ScottK> SevenMachines: It does.
<SevenMachines> ok, thanks
<slytherin> SevenMachines: Is there any urgency? It will eventually get version bump in lucid, won't it
<LucidFox> Speaking of which
<SevenMachines> i was wondering that, its the version synced from debian testing but there its still early days
<SevenMachines> so theres no rush, best to just wait?
<LucidFox> Well, even after it enters testing, there will still be some days before it gets autosynced.
<SevenMachines> suppose might just do it anyway, allows people to test other bugs on it, and allows me to avoid doing the work i'm supposed to be doing which is not inspirational stuff on a friday :)
<MenZa> For a lack of a better place to ask - do deb packages support localised meta data?
<directhe`> MenZa, you mean translations of the info like the package description?
<MenZa> yep
<MenZa> I see it as being a pretty big issue for non-English speakers to use stuff like the software centre if they have to do that in a different language
<MenZa> I've always wondered
<directhe`> "kinda"
<MenZa> That sounds pretty... shifty
<directhe`> i'd talk to the debian-l10n guys
<directhe`> er, debian-i18n
<directhe`> same difference
<directhe`> i agree with you, FWIW
<MenZa> Hang on, I found *something*
<directhe`> but they're the guys to discuss specifics with
<MenZa> Basically, .po files can be included within the package?
<Laney> there's a translation project in debian
<Laney> for doing package descriptions
<MenZa> hmm
<joaopinto> MenZa, software center does use description translations, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu
<directhe`> Laney, i don't remember the implementation of consumers though
<Laney> no, no idea how it works
<Laney> but it must work somehow
<MenZa> joaopinto: ah
<MenZa> joaopinto: Excellent.
<MenZa> Thanks :)
<DerickH> can I download a minimal 10.04 cd somewhere?
<moustafa> The first alpha for Lucid is set for December 10th
<DerickH> ok
<DerickH> thanks
<DerickH> then there is also an minimal cd?
<moustafa> There's the alternate installer, if that's what you mean
<moustafa> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloadmirrors#alternate
<DerickH> I mean ubuntu minimal https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<moustafa> Ah, it should be available when the alpha appears
<LucidFox> "I'm busy with the university, at least until December 15. I'd like to improve the build system and, eventually, publish the program
<LucidFox> on a hosting service (such as Google Code, Launchpad...): these are time consuming tasks, and they would break your package. "
<LucidFox> Wow. An upstream actually concerned about breaking packages? :)
<directhex> lies! no such creature exists!
<siretart`> sorry, for not having announced that earlier, but I need to take
<siretart`> spooky (the Host on which REVU is running) down until sunday
<siretart`> the reason is maintenance on the power supply at the campus here
<bddebian> dtchen: I'm going to start playing with sdl 1.2.14
<siretart`> ajmitch: around? - see ^^
<fabrice_sp_> Hi. Who should I ping to have motu access to  revu? RainCT ?
<av`> fabrice_sp_, any REVU Admin listed on the REVU LP team
<fabrice_sp_> ok. Will check. Thanks av` :-)
<av`> np
<RainCT> fabrice_sp_: Yeah. REVU is currently offline until Sunday, but feel free to ping me again once it's up and I'll change your permissions.
<fabrice_sp_> ohh, right. Forgot about that. Thanks :-)
<fabrice_sp_> anyone know of a script that download the Debian source giving him the name of the source package ?
<RainCT> fabrice_sp_: pull-debian-source
<fabrice_sp_> cool! Thanks again RainCT :-)
<porthose> fabrice_sp_, pull-lp-source comes in handy also ;)
<RainCT> Or you can add Debian to your sources.list and then use  apt-get source <pkgname> -t unstable
<fabrice_sp_> ok. I'm trying to automate the sync request sponsoring, by unsubscribing u-u-s, subscribing myself to the bug, downloading the source from Debian and building it
<fabrice_sp_> as of now, I'm able to do the lp part, and do manually the download (already has a script for building )
<randomaction> I have a trivial script for this, which does mkdir; cd; pull-debian-source; pbuilder-dist
<fabrice_sp__> pull-debian-source extract the dsc, that shouldn't be necessary in that case
<fabrice_sp__> the fun part was to interact with lp ;-)
<geser> I've also a small script to ACK sync-request (and do the subscribing/unsubscribing)
<fabrice_sp__> so do I now :-)
<fabrice_sp__> it's called ack-sync
<geser> I called mine syncack :)
<fabrice_sp__> I also have one called sponsor, that unsunscribe u-u-s, and subscribe myself, put as In progress, and put Whishlist
<mannyv> my error of the day:  'sudo apt-get reboot
<mannyv> '
<fabrice_sp> :-) Could have been worst ;-)
<mannyv> i found it pretty amusing
<wattazoum> hello
<wattazoum> Can anyone tell me if there is a way using dh_override (debhelper > 7.0.50) to handle multi package build including arch indep packages ?
* RainCT changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu 9.10 released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html | REVU will be down until Sunday
<ajmitch> siretart: ok, thanks for the warning :)
<maxb> wattazoum: AFAIK, the best way is to use if [ `dh_listpackages` ....... in the shell commands of the override target
<wattazoum> wow, someone answering ! Thank you very much maxb. I will look at it
<PMantis> Where's the best place to ask about writing upstart jobs? can anyone here help?
<strycore> hi all
<dhillon-v10> strycore, hi :)
<strycore> could somebody take a look at this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/convertall/+bug/474341
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474341 in convertall "No conversion occurs. It just says converting... but nothing happens!" [Undecided,In progress]
<strycore> I've send a patch to the maintainer but no fix has been released yet
<strycore> it's been more than two weeks now
<strycore> sorry, i didn't attach a clean debdiff , it's just a regular diff
<strycore> oh, wgrant you're actually here :)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-28
<mannyv> strycore, it looks like it has been fixed upstream but has not been packaged in debian yet
<mannyv> that is a new version upstream so the fix won't make it into karmic. Your best bet, given it is a regression with a simple fix, would be trying to request a SRU i think
<mannyv> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<mannyv> im kind of new to this though so I might be wrong
<strycore> yes this bug is fixed in convertall 0.4.3, I took just one line from it. But I know that were not going to have it before Lucid so it might be nice to patch convertall 0.4.2 so it actually works
<strycore> and it's the smallest patch ever !
<mannyv> so then get the fix in karmic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates =)
<strycore> ok i've subscribed the ubuntu-sru team and nominated the fix for karmic, but I'm not a motu, there are things I can't do
<pmatulis> what is the equivalent pbuilder/pdebuild command for 'dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S' ?
<jmarsden> pmatulis: pdebuild -S -sa  # should work fine, as should    pbuilder --build --debuildopts "-S -sa" foo.dsc
<cemc> havp
<bddebian> dtchen: Can you hit me up if you come around?
<pmatulis> what is the equivalent pbuilder/pdebuild command for 'dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S' ?
<bddebian> --debbuildopts -sa
<geser> pmatulis: why would you need that? for pbuilder you need to have a .dsc file already
<bddebian> I have to use -sa occasionally to ensure the .orig.tar.gz gets included in the .changes file
<geser> yes, but you don't use pbuilder to build your source package, do you?
<pmatulis> geser: my goal is to have PPA's for any release i choose
<pmatulis> geser: and pbuilder provides that in general.  needless to say i'm quite new at this
<geser> pbuilder takes your source package and builds the binary debs from it
<bddebian> geser: No not usually, good point :)
<geser> you don't need a lucid pbuilder to build a source package for lucid (in most cases)
<pmatulis> geser: so if my host is jaunty how do i get LP to build karmic PPA's?
<geser> you target karmic in your changelog entry
<geser> that lets LP know that it should build it for karmic
<pmatulis> geser: alright, easier than i thought then
<bddebian> dtchen: OK, I just uploaded libsdl 1.2.14 to experimental if you get bored and want to test :)
<sebner> heya bddebian  :)
<bddebian> Hi sebner
<hedkandi> fyi uploads to revu isn't working
<hedkandi> it says "wrong password"!
<Laney> revu is down
<jjlee> i'd like to package this: http://www.pre-emptive.net/doco/w3cvalidator-command-line-html-validator
<geser> ScottK: do you know if your changes to some r-cran-* packages are still needed? (Don't build with xvfb on Sparc to work around LP 410711)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 410711 in xorg-server "Xvfb failed to start on sparc" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410711
<ScottK> geser: That should be fixed now.
<geser> so sync those packages again?
<jjlee> at work we tend to produce native packages, but I know that's frowned upon
<ScottK> geser: I have three R packages that should be able to sync now that the new r-base is in.
<ScottK> geser: Yes.  If you want to file the syncs, I'm fine with that.
<ScottK> (just let me know)
<jjlee> I'd like to keep the original source code under version control
<geser> I guess the ones I looked at to get some FTBFS of the list
<jjlee> what's the best way to do that and comply with debian / ubuntu guidelines?
<jjlee> seems like keeping original source under version control might make it awkward to comply with requirement to work from "original tarball"
<geser> ScottK: I'll testbuild them and file sync request then
<ScottK> geser: Thanks.
<ScottK> jjlee: Keep it all in your VCS, but exclude the debian dir when you make the tarball for release.
<jjlee> are there tools to generate patches (and even generate "original tarball") from a version control repository?
<ScottK> Yes, there are, but it depends a lot on what you use for a VCS.
<jjlee> git by preference, but bzr if it integrates better with LP (which I assume it does?)
<ScottK> It does, but it really only matters if the project is hosted on LP.
<jjlee> ScottK: how do I generate "original tarball" from repo?  does it have to be bit-for-bit the same as the real original tarball?  Does tar include timestamps in archives?
<jjlee> I do want to use LP's PPAs
<jjlee> don't care especially about the rest of LP's features
<ScottK> jjlee: You want to look at pristine-tar as the tarball has to have a consistent md5sum.
<jjlee> though I guess it's nice for issue tracking to be in the official place
<jjlee> ScottK: thanks -- this binary delta that pristine-tar talks about contains the timestamp (&c.?) stuff extracted from original tarball, presumably?
<ScottK> Something like that.  I don't know the details.
<jjlee> ScottK: thanks anyway, looks promising!
<jjlee> is there other LP stuff I should do other than just uploading my source package to PPA (other than getting it into {multi,uni}verse)?
<jjlee> stuff that makes other maintainers / regular users lives easier?
<jjlee> like using standard issue tracker?
<geser> ScottK: sync requested for r-cran-time{date,series}: bug #489632 and bug #489636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489632 in r-cran-timedate "Sync r-cran-timedate 2100.86-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489636 in r-cran-timeseries "Sync r-cran-timeseries 2100.84-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489636
<ScottK> Good.  Thanks.
<mannyv> i have been working my way down the universe list on M-o-M looking for and filing sync requests. I have not been asking or notifying the previous uploader as I just noticed geser doing. Should I not just go down the list filing syncs (when appropriate)?
<geser> mannyv: it's good to at least let the previous uploader know it to avoid double work
<mannyv> geser, ok will do. That'll be a chore, iv'e filed about 20 sync requests
<ScottK> mannyv: If you look at the top of that page, it's the first thing that's suggested.
<mannyv> ScottK, technically it says it before doing a merge. I am not trying to be pedantic but syncs (at least the ones i have been touching) are not much work and so not likely to be sitting in someone work log half done. But I take your point and will ask first
<ScottK> mannyv: The other thing is that it isn't rare for the previous uploader to know something relevant about the package and if it can be synced, for example, I knew it was now OK to sync the packages that geser asked about due to following the bug I uploaded a workaround for and knowing that r-base had recently been synced.  It'd have been a lot tougher for someone who hadn't been following the packages to know.
<mannyv> ScottK, ive been skipping over the packages with more complicated. I have focused on obvious easy changes like changing a Depends or renaming getline to get_line
<ScottK> That's good, but still please ask.
<mannyv> i will
<jjlee> anybody know how to explicitly specify gpg key to use when signing a file?
<hyperair> jjlee: -k
<jjlee> hyperair: man gpg says that's the same as --list-public-keys
<ScottK> jjlee: hyperair is correct.
<hyperair> jjlee: sorry, i was talking about debsign. were you talking about something else?
 * ScottK was too
<jjlee> hyperair: sorry, I was referring to gpg itself
<hyperair> jjlee: look for default-key in the manpage
<pochu> jjlee: see --sign in the manpage
<jjlee> hyperair: thanks, that led me to --local-user
<hyperair> ah
* siretart changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu 9.10 released! | Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck | latest rebuild failures: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909-karmic.html | REVU back
<Laney> yay
<jjlee> is this a suitable name & version for my ppa package (from release 1.0.1 of http://www.pre-emptive.net/doco/w3cvalidator-command-line-html-validator)? w3c-markup-validator-commandline_1.0.1ubuntu1~ppa1
<directhex> jjlee, that's still a native package version
<jjlee> ah, thanks.  So 1.0.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1?  Do I need the ubuntu1?
<directhex> 1.0.1-1ubuntu1~ppa1 means:
<directhex> upstream version 1.0.1
<directhex> debian version 1
<directhex> ubuntu modification 1 of debian version
<jjlee> So 1.0.1-1~ppa1 I guess
<directhex> ppa package 1 based upon the above, but versioned to be "lower" than the non-ppa version
<directhex> (should one exist)
<jjlee> right, I want it to be lower
<jjlee> (though none exists yet)
<directhex> 1.0.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1
<jjlee> it's not a modification of a big-D Debian package
<directhex> unless you plan on targeting debian rather than ubuntu with a "real" package
<directhex> use 0ubuntu1 for packages not based on debian versions
<jjlee> this is a new package
<jjlee> So 1.0.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1 ?
<lfaraone> jjlee: you're still using 0ubuntu1 if you're going to upload to Ubuntu not Debian.
<jjlee> I'm going to upload to ubuntu, not Debian, yes
<jjlee> thanks
<jjlee> This package has a perl module in it.  Not sure I want to take the obvious debian package name for that w3c-markup-validator-perl.
<jjlee> Seems reasonable just to keep it all in a single "binary" package?
<jjlee> it's not in CPAN
<jjlee> Can anybody suggest an example perl debian package that's midway in the level of debian/rules auto-magic-ness between libwww-perl (only a couple of lines in debian/rules) and libuuid-perl (big ugly makefile)?
<RainCT> DktrKranz: thanks for getting ubuntu-dev-tools into Debian :)
<nhandler> DktrKranz: So are we going to continue to maintain u-d-t the same way and you will just "sync" it in Debian ?
<DktrKranz> RainCT: hehe, np :)
<DktrKranz> nhandler: I think it's safe, I only diverge in a dep (which it will be applied in Lucid too, as soon as dependency stack will be synced), and Maintainer (to avoid ML bouncing)
<DktrKranz> now that we sync from testing, it's not worthy to wait 10 days
<DktrKranz> the only issue I've encountered is some unicode issues in buildd script
<RainCT> DktrKranz: btw, have you seen http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=543315?
<ubottu> Debian bug 543315 in sbuild "mk-sbuild-lv does not export http_proxy to schroot environment" [Normal,Open]
<RainCT> looks like they want mk-sbuild-lv in the sbuild package
<RainCT> kees: ^
<ScottK> Even better.
<ScottK> The less we have to maintain, it's good.
<DktrKranz> RainCT: I agree some tools should be included in other packages (i.e. devscripts), and leave here only Ubuntu-specific ones
<geser> DktrKranz: what unicode issues exist in the buildd script?
<mihailikos> hi
<mihailikos> im just strart
<mihailikos> and i like so much that version of ubuntu
<mihailikos> can some one hellp me
<mihailikos> i want install ubuntu on my usb
<mihailikos> is that keep me eny change i have made on setings
<RainCT> mihailikos: #ubuntu is the place for support
<RAOF> mihailikos: This is a development channel; your question would be better asked in #ubuntu.
<mihailikos> aha
<mihailikos> ok
<mihailikos> sorry
<jjlee> should the .changes file I upload to launchpad end in _source.changes, as this page suggests? https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<jjlee> mine doesn't
<jjlee> though the .changes file does point to an .orig.tar.gz
<jjlee> (it also points to a .dsc, and a .diff.gz, and a .deb)
<wgrant> jjlee: Launchpad only accepts source uploads. You need to pass '-S' to debuild or dpkg-buildpackage.
<jjlee> I'm using git-buildpackage, didn't see any similar-looking options
<jjlee> oh, it passes options along
<jjlee> thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2009-11-29
<feasty>  Hi there. I am looking into how to go about getting started fixing bugs for Ubuntu. Can anyone point me in the right direction to start working on fixing some bugs. I have read the wiki pages but cant seem to see where I would go to pick one up to work on. Can anyone help me please?
<micahg> feasty: there should be a bitesize tag for small fixes needed
<micahg> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize
<micahg> might be a good start
<micahg> feasty: what languages do you know?
<feasty> thanks I'll have a look
<feasty> c++, C but I am happy to work in Python and Java as well
<feasty> also competent in bash if that helps
<micahg> feasty: that's great
<feasty> whats the difference between triaged and confirmed?
<micahg> feasty: depends on the bugs
<micahg> here's the standard list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<feasty> thanks, perfect
<micahg> feasty: usually triaged means it's ready to be worked on
<micahg> feasty: unless it's a packaging bug
<feasty> So how do I take on one of these bugs to fix?
<feasty> Do I need someone to assign it to me?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> just start working on it
<feasty> but is it possible that someone else could be working on it too?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> but
<feasty> ok cool
<lifeless> 80K open bugs
<lifeless> if we had 1000 developers, that would still be 80:1 chance of working on the same bug
<feasty> ah ok :). No problem. When I work on a fix I just download the source through apt and use that or should I get it elsewhere?
<lifeless> debcheckout, or apt, or bzr.
<feasty> ok thanks
<lifeless> all are ok - and there are lots of docs about process and how to record your work etc.
<feasty> ok. Thanks for all your help.
<lifeless> np
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<shriekout> Sign up advice.
<DktrKranz> geser: with lazr.restfulclient >= 0.9.4 you get http://pastebin.com/m7cd288e8, a workaround is applying http://people.debian.org/~dktrkranz/u-d-t_unicode.patch to lazr.restfulclient
<shriekout> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/happytimer
<shriekout> please advice...
<micahg> shriekout: sat night is the slow time
<shriekout> humm... yes...
<shriekout> :)
<fabrice_sp> directhex, do you have an opinion on Bug #489467 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489467 in monodevelop-database "Sync monodevelop-database 2.1.1+dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489467
<RAOF> fabrice_sp: It'd be nice to have a set of monodevelop packages that are installable; currently all the plugins are unable to be installed against our monodevelop 2.1.1.
<RAOF> In fact, most of our monodevelop packages should be sync'd, it would appear.
<fabrice_sp> ok RAOF will process then (just wanted to be sure the sync won't destroy anything).
<fabrice_sp> Yes: just what I was thinking
<RAOF> The only one I've seen so far with meaningful ubuntu delta is monodevelop-debugger-mdb.
<fabrice_sp> but it could be solved with the help of directhex I suppose ;-)
<RAOF> I could probably check; it'd be nice to have a working monodevelop debugger
<fabrice_sp> TBH, I'm not a mono fan :-D
<RAOF> Heretic!  Burn the unbeliever! :P
<fabrice_sp> lol
<shiki-> hi everyone
<maco> shiki-: this is where developer training happens
<maco> packaging is something developers do, so...makes sense to bring you here
<shiki-> ah I know.. I just tried this "Quassel" irc ..and I dont have to autojoin list
<maco> i use quassel too :) any channels you're in when you close it, itll autojoin when you start it again
<shiki-> yeah.. but I tried this client first time
<shiki-> I use Pidgin mostly ^^"
<shiki-> okay
<shiki-> so
<shiki-> source package has two conflicting values.. hmm
<maco> perhaps different version numbers?
<shiki-> oh geez
<shiki-> the person who made the changelog basically, messed up the name of the package
<shiki-> \o/
<shiki-> voila' its working
<maco> yay!
<shiki-> yeah
<shiki-> !
<shiki-> :)
<shiki-> ty for the help
<maco> np
 * maco points to revu again ;-)
<shiki-> ah one more 'fast' question
<shiki-> if I want to build a package for 8.04-9.10 for example. Then I should NOT put the ~ppaX~distroY part and just copy into the folder itself after upload? OR replace the "distroY" to "ZubuntuY" ?
<maco> you cant have 1 binary in 2 versions with ppas
<nigel_nb> maco: got a min?
<shiki-> oh..damn :)
<maco> nigel_nb: whats up?
<shiki-> I could reduce my "work time" to 1/4
<shiki-> could.. ^^"
<maco> shiki-: they have be named differently
<nigel_nb> i'm looking for some pointers to start with motu
<shiki-> yeah.. thats what is annoying :)
<nigel_nb> just finished daniel's videos and installing everything
<maco> nigel_nb: was just gonna ask how far you were :)
<nigel_nb> read the wiki too, but still feel kinda lost
<maco> nigel_nb: have you seen harvest?
<nigel_nb> no
<maco> !harvest
<maco> oh boo
<maco> why does this not have a factoid?
<maco> silly bot
<shiki-> :)
<nigel_nb> hahha
<maco> http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/sourc
<maco> http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/sourcepackages.html
<maco> there we go
<maco> i think the "patches" column is easiest to handle as a beginner
<maco> um scroll past the linux package though
<nigel_nb> after karmic right?
<maco> harvest is full of low-hanging fruit
<maco> small tasks for new devs
<maco> or lazy ones...
<nigel_nb> haha
<nigel_nb> lemme try one out
<maco> im trying to find one for a source package i can upload that way i can walk you through it and then upload it for you
<nigel_nb> oh, great :)
<shiki-> hmmm.
<shiki-> How can I replace a string recursively with sed? (like karmic -> hardy) :)
<shiki-> or .. just..RTFM? ^^"
<shiki-> uploaded the stuff to REVU. (hope I didnt do anything wrong..)
<maco> nigel_nb: ugh it seems like most stuff with patches is in main so im just gonna dig up a simpleish one
<maco> nigel_nb: ok see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vm-builder/+bug/351509 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 351509 in vm-builder "vmbuilder should provide an option to choose which libvirt virtual network" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<maco> nigel_nb: go to packages.ubuntu.com and get to the vm-builder page for lucid
<maco> copy the link for its .dsc then run "dget blahblah.dsc" with that link instead of blahblah.dsc
<maco> itll download a .dsc, .orig.tar.gz, and .diff.tar.gz
<nigel_nb> ok
<micahg> I find it's easier to add the deb-src line for lucid and just do apt-get source -t lucid PKGNAME
<maco> micahg: that seemed like more explaining
<maco> run "dpkg-source -x blahblah.dsc" to get it to unpack the source package
<maco> also download the diff from that bug
<nigel_nb> maco: I'm a little slow, hold on
<maco> woah....wait im wondering what the heck this patch is doing now
<maco> ah ok i see
<nigel_nb> in package.ubuntu.com, there was python-vm-builder and ubuntu-vm-builder
<nigel_nb> I take the second one?
<maco> yeah
<nigel_nb> oddly the gpg validation failed when I downloaded the dsc
<nigel_nb> is that okay?
<nigel_nb> maco: got everything you asked me to
<maco> yeah it always does
<maco> its because source package v. binary package
<maco> ok you got the patch from the bug too?
<nigel_nb> yep
<maco> and did the dpkg-source -x thing?
<nigel_nb> yep
<maco> k so when you "ls" you have network.diff       vm-builder_0.11.3-0ubuntu1.diff.gz  vm-builder_0.11.3.orig.tar.gz    vm-builder-0.11.3  vm-builder_0.11.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
<maco> right?
<nigel_nb> right :)
<maco> great
<geser> the validation failed because you (or more precisely dscverify) doesn't have the key of the person who signed the source package
<maco> cd vm-builder-0.11.3
<nigel_nb> geser: oh.
<maco> geser: can i continue ignoring it or should i start importing gpg keys like mad?
<geser> depends how paranoid you are
<maco> geser's in ur tubes corruptin ur src pkgs
<maco> nigel_nb: anyway, first thing you do when youre going to apply a patch to a package is "patch -p1 --dry-run < ../patchfile" so in this case "patch -p1 --dry-run < ../network.diff" to test and see if it applies cleanly
<nigel_nb> maco: there is a "can't find the file to patch at input line 3
<maco> thatd be "does not apply cleanly" then ;-)
<maco> that means we gotta fix it up a big
<maco> *bit
<nigel_nb> aha :)
<maco> take a look at the first line of network.diff and at the contents of vm-builder-0.11.3/  ...something seem a little off to you?
<maco> nigel_nb: ^ ?
<nigel_nb> its supposed to change the file inside the package instead of the one already installed?
<maco> right
<maco> also, im pretty sure that adding .orig to the end of the file name is bad
<maco> sooo have to dig around and find where those files actually exist in the source package
<maco> i suggest "find . -name __init__.py" for possible paths to the first part of the diff and "find . -name libvirtxml.tmpl" for the second
 * nigel_nb sheepish grin
<nigel_nb> i found it manually
<maco> so did i :)
<maco> i just realized right now that find wouldve been the easy way
<nigel_nb> oh :)
<maco> meanwhile i was digging around while you were downloading the source package
<nigel_nb> i just looked into the VMBuilder folder and then went on
<maco> me too
<shiki-> Do I really have to mess up the launchpad bugtracker? :(
<shiki-> (when creating a revu package upload)
<maco> nigel_nb:  so i edited the diff to have this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/330956/
<maco> nigel_nb: make sense to you?
<nigel_nb> whats with the a and b?
<maco> patch level -p1 requires one extra level
<maco> without itd be -p0
<maco> i *think* p0 p1 and p2 are all commonly tried, but umm..
<maco> geser: ??
<hyperair> quilt doesn't like -p0
<maco> is there a reason p1 seems to be the favourite?
<maco> ah ok thatd be why then
<hyperair> it does seem to be standardized everywhere
<hyperair> git diff does -p1
<hyperair> among other things
<maco> yeah i knew git diff did it
<maco> thats how i got used to seeing a/ and b/
<hyperair> and svn diff. and bzr diff
<hyperair> dpatch seems to like -p0 though
<hyperair> i remember having to add a/ and b/ to all the dpatch stuff when converting to quilt
<maco> nigel_nb: ok so i guess the answer is "because everyone else likes it"
 * hyperair lol
<hyperair> +s
<nigel_nb> wat i meant is, u've just taken a and b randomly?
<maco> yah
<hyperair> you can put anything in front
<maco> you add another level because tools like that extra level
<nigel_nb> clear now :)
<hyperair> -p1 means the first part is stripped away
<nigel_nb> ah
<hyperair> you can even use ./
<maco> a and b are just because im used to seeing a & b because of using git
<nigel_nb> so doesn't matter what is put there as long as there is something
 * hyperair nods
<maco> yep
<hyperair> for p1 patches yes
<hyperair> i think traditionally -p1 patches were used because then you'd know it's to be applied from the root of the source directory
<shiki-> geez... REVU says it should have watch file. Okay, added one. now it says it should NOT have since its a native package. So?...
<maco> shiki-: it should have a watch file
<shiki-> okay then.. I'll ignore the warn
<nigel_nb> maco: okay, made the changes to diff and saved it
<hyperair> more like you shouldn't be creating native packages
<maco> nigel_nb: ok  and if you re-run that patch command, it comes out happy?
<geser> maco: I just looked at the original diff: the .orig in the filename isn't the problem, the problem is that the patch was made against the installed binary package and not the source
<maco> hyperair: exactly
<shiki-> theeen..what the heck should I do ? ..Im aldy lost in the buntu labyrinth
<maco> geser: oh yeah we got that part already ;-) i just wasnt sure if the .orig mattered or not
<hyperair> shiki-: make sure your .orig.tar.gz is around
<hyperair> shiki-: if it isn't, then it'll end up creating a native package
<maco> geser: we've just been discussing what the actual paths to the files should be and discovering that find is a useful thing to remember exists :P
<nigel_nb> maco: not really, Hunk #1 FAILED at 27.
<shiki-> uhm... sure. and how to create a .orig.tar.gz ? ... (sorry Im totally confused ^^")
<nigel_nb> maco: the fact that find exists was useful, though we both didn't really use it ;)
<maco> nigel_nb: oh? pastebin your current version of the diff?
<maco> nigel_nb: ...there arent 27 line
<hyperair> shiki-: where did you get the source code from?
<nigel_nb> its probably line 27 of one of the files that we're modifying?
<shiki-> well..from the person who makes the app.. a sourceforge page
<maco> nigel_nb: youre probably right
<shiki-> I used a "Debianized" source to create the PPA packages.. which successfully built, and they work flawless
<shiki-> but if I get the pure source, debianize it, I end up the same way.. it will be a native package
<nigel_nb> maco: http://paste.ubuntu.com/330962/
<maco> shiki-: are you using debhelper?
<shiki-> now? nope .. now I just used simple debuild and manual edit
<geser> I this case I wouldn't try converting this patch into quilt but make a new quilt patch and edit this few lines by hand
<shiki-> (yeah I know the standards, always building the package on my machine first with pbuilder)
<maco> i wondr if the indentation change on "self.vm.register_setting_group(group)" matters...it may
<maco> geser: the package doesnt use quilt
<maco> geser: im told not to add patch management systems to packages that dont already have them
<geser> oh it doesn't?
<maco> it has no debian/patches/ ...
<maco> nope, no quilt in debian/control
<geser> interesting as vm-builder has quilt in it's build-depends
 * maco re-reads
<maco> heh i cant read
<maco> q on one line, uilt on the next...what thats not quilt!
<geser> it's even enabled in debian/rules
<maco> why would it have quilt if it doesnt have debian/patches/ ?
<hyperair> it could be elsewhere
<hyperair> or it could be leftover from when patches existed
<shiki-> maco: where should I start? can you point me to a "start point"? (how should I prepare this stuff...)
<maco> i half feel like this lack of reading skills means bedtime and other half feels like "what? it can go elsewhere? oooh tell me!"
<maco> geser: do you wanna take over? im not sure i wanna explain quilt at 5am when i havent used it in 2 months
<nigel_nb> maco: its 5 am?
 * hyperair heads into a corner and laughs
<maco> where i am, yes
<nigel_nb> what are you doing anywhere other than bed?
<maco> being on irc?
<geser> I'd but I'm busy myself now, so don't have time, sorry
<nigel_nb> there's thing called sleep that human beings need.....
<maco> yeah i know...
<maco> particulary when i have to be up in 3 hours
 * hyperair has seen the sunrise quite a few times this month..
<hyperair> prior to going to bed
<nigel_nb> hyperair: i see it everyday, I work nights :P
<hyperair> meh
<hyperair> nocturnal being eh =p
<nigel_nb> maco: hit the bed.  we'll continue this another day?
<maco> it was only 4am when i came in here!
<maco> heh ok
<nigel_nb> hyperair: I get scared sleeping at night now
<hyperair> hmm scared of the dark are we?
<nigel_nb> hyperair: been 2.5 years since i slept in the dark
<hyperair> O_o
<hyperair> i sleep... regardless of whether there is light
<hyperair>  lecture theatres suit me best
<nigel_nb> now, I do too :P
<nigel_nb> cubicles are better
<nigel_nb> maco: when are you on irc generally?
<nigel_nb> maco: first thing, which tz are you on?
<maco> nigel_nb: eastern US
<nigel_nb> Dc right?
<maco> 1500-700 UTC, id say
<maco> yes
<hyperair> what kind of timezone is 1500-700 UTC?
<nigel_nb> its not tz, its her irc timings
<hyperair> oh
<hyperair> heh
<nigel_nb> hold on, lemme get that to my tz
<nigel_nb> maco: I'll be on at around 0130 UTC to 0700 UTC
<maco> ok so evening for me
<maco> im gonna sleep now. bye bye
<nigel_nb> bye, night
<hyperair> have a good sleep
<nigel_nb> dont come back soon :P
<maco> haha
<nigel_nb> someone kick her out :D
<maco> im gone im gone!
<maco> see away message and everything!
<shiki-> back... just had a full KDM/plasma/KDE crash ^^
<Mailaender> I prepared GNOME-chemistry-utils 0.10.9 debdiffs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-chemistry-utils/+bug/233963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 233963 in gnome-chemistry-utils "Please merge gnome-chemistry-utils 0.10.9-1 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<xee> Hi, I'm trying to follow the guide https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate but I'm facing problems, is this the right channel to ask?
<maco> yes
<xee> well, I'm just trying to create a deb of a newer version of a library but I get an error when running pbuilder, which should create the binary if I understand correctly
<xee> it says E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
<av`> xee, you didnt create the tarball or you specified a wrong --basetgz path
<xee> I just followed the guide above, I don't know much about debian packaging
<av`> xee, start with pbuilder create --distribution whatever --basetgz /what/ever/path --mirror http://a.good.mirror.for.you.com
<av`> xee, then wait for it to be done
<av`> xee, then you can pbuilder build foo.dsc
<av`> remember to specify the path you choose with --basetgz
<av`> xee, so it will look like
<xee> that's the path to the original source tarball, right?
<av`> xee, pbuilder --basetgz /path/you/choose build foo.dsc
<av`> xee, no
<av`> xee, that's a random path to store the distro tarball
<av`> xee, what pbuilder does it unpacking that tarball and then builds your package into a clean chroot
<av`> xee, but can even be used to log in and test stuff there too
<xee> ok thx, I'll try and get back to you
<av`> ok, perfect :)
<xee> av`: now when I do the build command I get the error mentioned here http://paste.ubuntu.com/331116/
<keffie_jayx> hello, I just generated a debdiff and it complains about not being able to validate my gpg key, should I worry about that?
<Laney> nope
<keffie_jayx> thanks
<LucidFox_> Hmm.
<LucidFox> This Qt4 app does a lot of qDebug << logging, resulting in the console being cluttered with debug messages.
<LucidFox> What would be the cleanest way to disable it at package build? (It uses cmake.)
<LucidFox> Hmm, apparently it's accomplished by ADD_DEFINITIONS(-DQT_NO_DEBUG), but can it be done on the cmake command line without patching CMakeLists.txt?
<ScottK> Anyone with a Debian chroot that has gcc4.4 from experimental?
<geser> DktrKranz: re the udt problem: wouldn't it be better to change line 78 of lpapicache.py to "isinstance(data, basestring)"? that would catch data being str or unicode
<DktrKranz> geser: good idea, I'll try that
<Laney> wgrant: I hassled you about this a while ago, but any chance of an MDT lucid <-> sid instance?
<Laney> (I could do it myself if you want to give me access to the box)
<Laney> anyone have access to the mdt configuration that's running on ubuntuwire atm?
<Laney> siretart: ?
<nigel_nb> maco: back after the nap?
<siretart> Laney: yes. please write me a mail with your launchpad id. make sure that you have registered an ssh key
<Laney> coming up
<Laney> siretart: sen t
<akheron> LucidFox: I made the fixes you suggested: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/jansson
<LucidFox> Nice. Going to sleep now, though.
<akheron> :)
<siretart> Laney: okay, now please try to login
<Laney> siretart: what's the host?
<siretart> Laney: err, the revu host?
<Laney> siretart: doesn't work
 * jdong scratches head at the new handbrake buildsys
<xee> I'm trying to upgrade a package to a newer upstream version but I'm getting an error when running pbuilder
<xee> the output of pbuilder is http://paste.ubuntu.com/331297/ , the error is in the last 10 lines
<xee> the error is: dh_movefiles: debian/tmp/usr/lib/libfribidi.so.0.0.0 not found (supposed to put it in libfribidi0)
<geser> look at line 436
<geser> looks like the lib changed the minor version
<xee> ok so I should just change debian/*.files?
<geser> yes
<geser> but as I'm no library packaging expert, something more might be needed too
<xee> ok thx, I'll give it a shot
<RAOF> You'll almost certainly need to touch the shlibs file, too, if upstream has bumped a version.
<xee> RAOF: I'm new to packaging, where's that file and what do I need to do to it?
<RAOF> xee: Library packages are special (and more complicated).  The shlibs file (in debian/ along with the rest of the packaging) basically tells dpkg how other packages should depend on your library.
<RAOF> If upstream has bumped a version it's likely that either (a) the ABI has changed in an incompatible way, in which case you need to do all sorts of stuff, or (b) there are new symbols exported by the library, in which case you need to change the shlibs file to say ">= current version".
<RAOF> xee: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html is a less rough-and-ready description of what needs to be done for library packaging.
<xee> actually I have installed it manually(configure; make install) with no visible problems, and it worked well for the purpose I have installed it for
<xee> so I'm a bit confident and will give it a shot at least
<RAOF> xee: That depends a bit on what you've actually used it for; if the SONAME has changed then you can happily build & install it, but nothing will use it without a rebuild.
<xee> yes but it worked properly after I installed it(and I got new functionality)
<RAOF> Hm.  That packaging guide needs updating for multiarch.
<ajmitch> RAOF: many things probably need updated for multiarch
<xee> I think this is bigger than I can handle, can I make a packaging request for the newer version or something?
<nhandler> Isn't there a recipe somewhere on the wiki for packaging an app that where upstream maintains it in bzr without formal tarball releases? I'm having trouble finding the page
<RAOF> xee: Yes.  Library packaging is significantly more complex than app packaging.  File a bug against the package.
<xee> ok, I'll do this, thx
<lfaraone> Can I tell cdbs to regenerate configure since upstream's sources lack it?
<Laney> yep
<lfaraone> Laney: okay, how would I do that?
<lfaraone> Laney: in my case, I need to run "autogen.sh"
<Laney> there's some variable you set
<Laney> DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_* iirc
<jgoppert> i'm using uscan to update gdal1.5 to gdal1.6 for my ppa, what do i do at this prompt? --------------------------
<jgoppert> |--- gdal-1.5.4.orig/debian/patches/00list
<jgoppert> |+++ gdal-1.5.4/debian/patches/00list
<jgoppert> --------------------------
<jgoppert> File to patch:
<jgoppert> http://pastebin.com/m6b17ff1b, can anyone help?
<bddebian> You are trying to patch a file under debian/ ?
<jgoppert> no, i'm trying use uscan to update the gdal package to 1.6
<jgoppert> i don't understand why its asking for a file to patch, i've never used uscan before, just got my watch file to work on my other project
<bddebian> I never use uscan personally, sorry
<jgoppert> ok thanks anyway
<bddebian> I always just pull the new tarball rename it, extract it and copy in the old debian/ dir.
<RAOF> jgoppert: uupdate might work better; it handles the directory rename (which I think is what's killing you there).
<jgoppert> thanks RAOF, just checking out the man page on it :-)
<RAOF> You know, it might be nice to implement the session org.freedesktop.PackageKit daemon in aptdaemon.  It looks fairly simple.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-29
<bdrung> ari-tczew: the "-b XXXXXXX -b XXXXXX" method is easy to implement. if you want a different behaviour, file a bug and describe how it should behave.
<MTecknology> I just want to get an opinion..... Application has a line "include path/*" which includes backup files created by those incredibly annoying editors. Application fails to start because multiple files with the same contents exist. Should it be the user or the application that needs to make up for the short coming of the editor?
<ebroder> MTecknology: Having the application deal with it is ideal, but there are plenty of applications that don't
<Laney> it would be a valid upstream bug imo
<RAOF> It sounds like the application is loading code from a user-writable directory?  That's always going to be fragile.
<TheMuso> ari-tczew: Please remember to include debian changelog entries when uploading a merge.
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: example?
<TheMuso> dssi-vst
<MTecknology> RAOF: no - /etc/nginx/sites-enabled/*
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: pull sources on hard disk.
<MTecknology> RAOF: and /etc/nginx/conf.d/*.conf
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: there are changelog including Debian changes. that LP handle incorrect merges.
<RAOF> MTecknology: Ah.  More excusable :)
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: please check it right now and give back to me
<TheMuso> ari-tczew: I am not talking about the source package, I am talking about when you create the changes file for upload.
<micahg> ari-tczew: he's referring to using -v when uploading
<MTecknology> RAOF: especially since the defaults imply you should edit the site in sites-available/ and symlink in sites-enabled/
<Laney> ari-tczew: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/2010-November/002091.html
<ari-tczew> micahg: -v to which command?
<Laney> you should see the -v option to debuild/dpkg-buildpackage
<MTecknology> RAOF: I'm just wondering whether or not it's worth dealing with and marking wishlist to never actually get to unless someone else does or say that they should edit files correctly.
<ari-tczew> aha, now I have debuild -S -sa
<Laney> -v<previous ubuntu version>
<ari-tczew> Laney: in this case, debuild -S -sa -v0.9.2-0ubuntu1 ?
<Laney> sounds right
<Laney> cat *_source.changes to see if the debian changelog is in there too
<ari-tczew> Laney: I prefer to use graphical editors.
<ari-tczew> like gedit
<Laney> ok
<micahg> ari-tczew: it's not for editing
<ari-tczew> micahg: OMG... editing/reading
<micahg> ari-tczew: there's a risk, that's why tools like cat/less are nice
<Laney> I wish more wasn't in my muscle memory :(
<ari-tczew> micahg: I'm careful
<Laney> it's pgp signed anyway so you can't break it accidently
<ari-tczew> +1 ^
<ari-tczew> TheMuso: otherwise, do you have any another questions about this upload?
<micahg> Laney: one can't get into the archive accidentally, but one can certainly create more work for oneself accidentally
<TheMuso> No.
<ari-tczew> great
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/New is where -v is documented btw
<ari-tczew> Laney: heh, my first time to see this one
<ebroder> Also in Mom's REPORT
<ebroder> *MoM
 * ari-tczew is off to bed, good night.
<MTecknology> !info nginx natty
<ubottu> nginx (source: nginx): small, but very powerful and efficient web server and mail proxy. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.53-1ubuntu1 (natty), package size 336 kB, installed size 968 kB
<MTecknology> ya....
<MTecknology> so there's two changes being made from debian going into -1ubuntu1; the problem I'm having is that these issues were actually addressed already
<RAOF> Hm.  Why can't I upload tracker to universe?
<StevenK> What's the error?
<RAOF> Lack of permissions.  Let me roust up the email.
<ajmitch_> it's not magically exclusive to a packageset, is it?
<RAOF> Are there packages which are exclusive to a packageset?
<RAOF> âThe signer of this package is lacking the upload rights for the source package, component or package set in question.â
<ajmitch_> I thought the kernel packages may have been, but not for any others
<ajmitch_> I haven't kept up on the confusing permissions
<ajmitch_> it doesn't appear to be in any packageset for natty
<ajmitch_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/537712/
<StevenK> Looks like only -desktop got rights to it for karmic only
<micahg> RAOF: MOTU should be able to upload according to the ACL
<micahg> StevenK: was in main then
<RAOF> How does one inspect the ACL, incidentally?
<micahg> RAOF: ubuntu-archive-tools
 * ajmitch_ was using edit_acl.py from ubuntu-archive-tools
<ajmitch_> I get the feeling that I'm killing LP from how slow this is :P
<RAOF> gpg says the changes are signed with the key that launchpad has, so it shouldn't be that.
<ajmitch_> you haven't expired from the uploading team recently, have you?
<RAOF> launchpad.net/~raof says I'm still a member of ~ubuntu-dev, which IIRC is the appropriate team.
<ajmitch_> I think ~motu is the necessary team still
<ajmitch_> but the team listing no longer shows expired members
<micahg> RAOF: you're no longer a member of MOTU
<RAOF> Ah.  That would be it.  I thought ~motu was deprecated, and had been for ~a year?
<ajmitch_> I don't think ubuntu-dev membership grants upload rights, everyone including per-package uploaders are members of it
<micahg> RAOF: no, MOTU will transition into Masters of the Unseeded when the reorg happens
<RAOF> Well, that's why I can't upload tracker, clearly :)
<micahg> RAOF: you still have cli-mono packageset upload rights ATM
<RAOF> Yup.
<ajmitch_> time to bug the DMB!
<ajmitch_> & apply for core-dev while you're at it
<StevenK> What ajmitch_ said
<lifeless> ajmitch_: is it timing out
<ajmitch_> lifeless: no, it just took ~50 seconds to get the information for one package
<lifeless> ajmitch_: grag.
<ajmitch_> I haven't seen what it's doing in the code, but that seems like a long time
<lifeless> thats fucked
<lifeless> check the api code is sane, and if it is, file a bug on lp
<micahg> RAOF: I'm happy to sponsor for you while you await reactivation
<RAOF> micahg: Ta.
<ajmitch_> it seems to loop over a few things, but doesn't appear to be too insane
<lifeless> ajmitch_: still, file bugs.
<ajmitch_> will do
<RAOF> micahg: http://cooperteam.net/Packages/tracker_0.8.17-1ubuntu1_source.changes with associated debdiff http://cooperteam.net/Packages/tracker.debdiff .  Thanks.
<micahg> RAOF: in progress
<micahg> RAOF: done
<RAOF> micahg: Thanks muchly!
<micahg> RAOF: np
<micahg> what's the proper way to not update timestamps on PO files if any (or do I have to go edit the debian.tar.gz)?
<micahg> what's the proper way to attribute when you take half a patch someone makes
<RAOF> Thank them in the changelog, I think.
<RAOF> âBased on a patch by $FOOâ
<micahg> RAOF: ok, what about DEP-3 for Origin/Author?
<micahg> I added a thanks in teh changelog and have origin as the debian revision, but no author
<RAOF> That'd fly.
<micahg> in the patch that's straight from Debian, I added author and origin with the package revision
<micahg> RAOF: do you know how to not update PO creation times on source package creation?
<RAOF> Not off the top of my head, no, sorry.
<RAOF> Why is it updating the creation times, though?
<micahg> RAOF: debian/clean they get updated
<micahg> oops d/rules clean
<micahg> RAOF: tracker regressed on PowerPC
<RAOF> Well, not so much regressed as *still* FTBFS :).  I'll take a look.
<micahg> RAOF: according to the logs it built fine before for 0.8.17-1
<RAOF> Yeah, it did.
<RAOF> Then we uploaded e-d-s 2.32, and it wouldn't have built against that.
<micahg> RAOF: ah, It's a dependency issue
<bilalakhtar> Meh, another careless merge by Bhavani. Looks like he merged nginx in a hurry, the package is now broken.
<micahg> bilalakhtar: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/547267/comments/12 <-- this is not an appropriate comment in a bug
<micahg> bilalakhtar: also, we don't reopen bugs that have been fixed, but file new ones and reference the old one
<bilalakhtar> micahg: No, its like this:
<bilalakhtar> The directory is referenced twice
<bilalakhtar> and hence dpkg gives an error, and the result is the same as it was earlier: no default site
<micahg> bilalakhtar: I agree with MTecknology, the Debian way is more appropriate for a default site
<bilalakhtar> micahg: that's what I am doing
<MTecknology> hm?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: oh, ok, I got the impression you disagreed with him from your comment
<bilalakhtar> micahg: In the old debian package no default site existed, but there was an explanation in debian/README.Debian
<bilalakhtar> RoAkSoAx went ahead with a direct fix by putting the site in /var/www/nginx/
<bilalakhtar> but that was against the D-p
<bilalakhtar> so I did what apache2 does
<bilalakhtar> but the debian way is even better
<bilalakhtar> Also, if I had done the merge, it would have been a sync instead
<bilalakhtar> all the changes had been accepted
<MTecknology> oh- bilalakhtar that was a crap ton of my changes going into debian btw
<bilalakhtar> but now a new change has been added: - Add support for html5 codecs
<MTecknology> kartik did the html5 addition
<bilalakhtar> and another thing:
<bilalakhtar> The UFW profile is being added twice
<bilalakhtar> with different file names
<bilalakhtar> such a head-breaking merge...
<MTecknology> Is there anything even in the ubuntu version at this point that isn't in the debian version?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: BTW, if it should be a sync and the package is broke, you can reverse the Ubuntu changes with an appropriate changelog note and reupload
<bilalakhtar> micahg: No, the sync isn't possible now, bhavani added another Ubuntu change: - Add support for html5 codecs
<bilalakhtar> I am dropping the rest and uploading
<micahg> didn't MTecknology just say the Debian maintainer added that?
<MTecknology> micahg: that's not in the uploaded package jsut yet - but it is in the branch
<bilalakhtar> so I will closely watch the package, when its added then I'll sync
<MTecknology> give me a minute..
<micahg> ah, right, he just upstreamed it, but w/out a patch :(
<MTecknology> micahg: there were about 10 different merges from the branch i popped off - I'll do better next time
<bilalakhtar> done, just test-building before uploading
<bilalakhtar> (though the build should run fine)
<bilalakhtar> It was like a whole merge re-done
<MTecknology> bilalakhtar: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nginx/nginx/debian/revision/102
<bilalakhtar> MTecknology: good!
<MTecknology> :)
<MTecknology> bilalakhtar: from now on anythign that breaks - yell at me :D
<bilalakhtar> MTecknology: it won't
<MTecknology> well... i'm an upstream maintainer now so.... ya.....
<MTecknology> we'll hope so :P
<micahg> MTecknology: that's great, we need more people working with both Distros
<MTecknology> micahg: I'm trying- I'm enjoying it enough
<bilalakhtar> I think this must be the highest number of uploads I did for a single package: nginx
<bilalakhtar> 3rd one in the way
<bilalakhtar> MTecknology, micahg: uploaded
<MTecknology> micahg: So far- I think the most confusing thing is policy; not difference but trying to understand them and hwo they go together
<micahg> MTecknology: yep, that's an important thing
<bilalakhtar> micahg: using natty?
<micahg> bilalakhtar: not yet
<bilalakhtar> hmm, I would move right now if I had the daily build in my hands
<MTecknology> I should upgrade....
<MTecknology> I upgraded to an SSD too- that's been amazing
<MTecknology> truely the american way, buying stuff I can't afford
<MTecknology> and a reboot - if I come back - I'm on natty
<MTecknology> :P
<MTecknology> yay
<dholbach> good morning!
<poolie> quick question: is it correct that packages in main can't have build-dependencies on things in universe?
<maco> yes, i believe so
<micahg> poolie: yes
<poolie> thanks
<micahg> poolie: if you need something, you can file an MIR if it's worth it
<poolie> thanks
<poolie> the context is https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2010q4/071019.html
<poolie> i think we will file a MIR for natty
<micahg> poolie: I think you can get away with it in a PPA though if it's not native
<poolie> what do you mean?
<micahg> poolie: build-dep on universe
<micahg> poolie: I'm just wondering why you would add something like that on a stable branch?
<poolie> we didn't add it
<micahg> oh, hmm, so what changed that the microreleaseexception was broken?
<poolie> all of 2.2.0 has had this run-time requirement to run the test suite
<poolie> when 2.2.0 was uploaded to maverick, it didn't run the test suite as the package was built
<poolie> for SRUs, they want to change the build rules to run the test suite
<poolie> which sounds pretty reasonable, but because of this snag apparently won't work
<micahg> poolie: ah, ok, I would suggest uploading to a PPA to run the test suite and include a link to the logs in the SRU
<poolie> yep
<poolie> that's what we'll do
<poolie> i hope
<poolie> well, we will do that and will i hope the sru  will be accepted
<spaceboy> index help
<spaceboy> index HELP
<spaceboy> INDEX HELP
<Rhonda> spaceboy: erm, â¦ yes?
<spaceboy> Hi, was just trying to use the commands in the list
<Rhonda> You can query ubottu if you like to play with it, it doesn't need to be in the channel, you know. :)
<spaceboy> Oh, ok, I don't really know much about IRC, thanks
<andol> Seems to be some missunderstandings going on in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libssh2/+bug/681423
<andol> Perhaps someone suitable could write a few wise words?
<Riddell> andol: I don't think I have any more to add
<AnAnt> Hello, is natty still auto-importing from Debian ?
<AnAnt> or should I sync manually ?
<jpds> AnAnt: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/29/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t13:40
<AnAnt> ah, alpha-1 should be out this week ?
<Rhonda> AnAnt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<Rhonda> Debian Import Freeze is on December 30th
<AnAnt> Rhonda: thanks
<Rhonda> But jpds is right of course, at this very moment it's not autosyncing
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: around?
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: yup
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: audacious joined the pkg-multimedia group in debian. join pkg-multimedia to get access to the git repository.
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: :o okay
<bdrung> bilalakhtar: audacious-plugins need a license review (both 2.3 and 2.4.1)
 * bilalakhtar logs into alioth
<bilalakhtar> bdrung: sent request
<RenatoSilva> I have a patch for a new feature on a specific project, but I'm lazy to create an account on their tracker and I think they don't care too much about it. Is it worth reporting a wishlist bug in Launchpad for keeping a patched version of the project in Ubuntu?
<cody-somerville> udienz, Saying 'Please use ppa' is not satisfactory rationale to mark a Ubuntu bug as Fix Released.
<udienz> cody-somerville: so a bugs switch to new again?
<ScottK> RenatoSilva: Unless it's a package that sees a lot of Ubuntu specific development probably not.
<RenatoSilva> ok
<ari-tczew> BlackZ: say thanks to zul due to merging nagios-plugins
<stilia-johny> hi is any alive?
<micahg> stilia-johny: you might want to try #ubuntu-app-devel for Makefile help if it's not part of the packaging
<stilia-johny> yhnks
#ubuntu-motu 2010-11-30
<ebroder> Anybody want to provide a second opinion on bug #656503? I'm inclined to take the whole patch - the only thing that seems remotely superfluous is the removal of the trailing newlines, but I don't want to decide to do that unilaterally
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 656503 in utouch-geis (Ubuntu) "event dispatch can hang under some circumstances" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/656503
<ebroder> (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59171925/utouch-geis.debdiff is the patch)
<ebroder> Actually, now that I'm looking at it, I'm confused how that change to the while loop is..actually a change
<RAOF> It looks like it calls xcb_poll_for_event once per loop rather than once, but that's just from looking at the patch; context may well change that.
<ebroder> There's another call to xcb_poll_for_event at the bottom of the loop
<ebroder> (The "@@ -763,15 +763,13 @@" hunk)
<RAOF> Ah, yeah.  There it is.
<RAOF> Oh.
<RAOF> If event->response_type != GenericEvent you've got an infinite loop.
<RAOF> That change really is a change.
<ebroder> Oh, I see
<RAOF> Is the changing to explicit C linkage needed?
<RAOF> I mean, the minimal patch is quite a lot smaller than that debdiff (which needs the changelog cleaning up, of course)
<ebroder> I was on the fence about the C linkage. I feel like it's something I would be willing to fix in an SRU if someone asked for it - C vs. C++ linkage is well-understood, and it won't affect any runtimes
<ebroder> (And anything in the archive that isn't broken currently has the extern "C" around the include, so it shouldn't affect rebuilding)
<ebroder> But if somebody else tells me they don't think it's appropriate, I've got no poblems with that
<ebroder> *problems, obviously
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> I think those changes are sane, but I'm not a member of ubuntu-sru :)
<ebroder> That's good enough for me. Lord knows I've SRU'd worse before, and we are talking about universe :-P
<ebroder> Actually, thinking about it more, I would sponsor the C++ change if there was a bug, but I don't really want to without a bug
<dholbach> good morning!
<hrw> hi
<bcurtiswx> http://imagebin.ca/view/2ogKiw.html is a pic of a patch thats failing.. the line of the start of the patch matches the code and i can't see where the patch would go wrong.  any suggestions ?
<udienz> keluar dulu
<geser> bcurtiswx: white-space? try "patch -l --dry-run" and your usual options
<bcurtiswx> i've been using quilt geser, will that do the same thing?
<geser> IIRC quilt doesn't use -l (and the --dry-run is only for testing)
<geser> but if you know if it's the white-space or not, you can either refresh the whole patch or edit the patch and fixing the whitespace (depending on what is easier)
<bcurtiswx> geser, OK thx
<geser> as you seem to use vim, you can also use "set list listchars=tab:>-,trail:.,extends:>,precedes:<,nbsp:%" to make white-space visible
<bcurtiswx> geser, will it highlight the whitespace ?
<bcurtiswx> ah i c
<bcurtiswx> nvm
<achiang> bcurtiswx: the actual error message from patch would be helpful too. :)
<bcurtiswx> achiang, i just got that the hunk failed.  no specific error message
<achiang> bcurtiswx: well, patch(1) takes a --verbose argument... why not try with that and pastebin the entire operation?
<bcurtiswx> achiang, OK it'll be a bit. thx for the help so far :)
<achiang> np
<micahg> debfx: will you be working on the SRU for bug 680820?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 680820 in purple-plugin-pack (Ubuntu Maverick) "Missing IRC More plugin" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/680820
<MTecknology> How do I use reportbug to report a bug to bugs.debian.org?
<MTecknology> I tried --bts=Debian and --bts=bugs.debian.org; but I get an error saying I need to use ubuntu-bug instead
<ebroder> MTecknology: Did you read the message it spits out? Mine says to put "bts debian" in ~/.reportbugrc
<ebroder> MTecknology: (Or pass -B debian)
<MTecknology> ebroder: oops- thanks :)
<debfx> micahg: yes, i'll upload it today
<micahg> debfx: ok, thanks
<highvoltage>  /win 18
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-01
<psusi> so I'm a little confused about pkg-config... this program depends on lua... as I understand it, the package should use pkg-config to discover the proper include path where it can find the headers for lua, which varies depending on the version installed... bug if you don't know or care what version is installed, how do you use pkg-config?  since it seems to require the full 'lua5.1' name rather than just 'lua'?
<RAOF> Does /usr/lib/pkgconfig/lua.pc exist, or is it lua5.1.pc?
<psusi> it's lua5.1.pc
<psusi> shouldn't the package create a diversion for the unversioned lua.pc?
<RAOF> That kinda depends.
<RAOF> Really that's an upstream decision.
<psusi> how are you supposed to get SOME version of lua if you don't know or care what version is installed?
<RAOF> You can't; upstream obviously wants you to ask for lua5.1
<RAOF> psusi: Oh, also, about your radeon question a while ago: yes, radeon loads firmware blobs - they're all in /lib/firmware/radeon
<psusi> hrm... I thought it was us who changed it to lua5.1 so we could install multiple versions at once?
<RAOF> If that's us, then we're wrong, and bugs should be filed.
<psusi> ahh, yes... I ended up finding the amd docs for the r600 gpu and started reading them... fascinating stuff
<psusi> am I correct in assuming that the reason they are in binary form ( well hex file form anyhow ) is because there isn't a ( common ) assembler for the gpu?  but it looks like based on this documentation I should be able to understand what the microcode means, effectively disassembling it by hand... but where does the code come from?  amd/ati?  or did someone else develop the code?
<psusi> there was only a single commit when I checked the git log for the file and it didn't seem to say
<RAOF> I presume it comes from AMD; you might be able to understand it based on the docs, or it might be driving a separate processor.  I dunno :)
<psusi> I guess what I'm getting at is, does amd provide the same microcode to the open source mesa driver that the proprietary one uses, and the only difference is the kernel code that passes the commands down to the firmware, or is the firmware also developed openly?
<RAOF> I think it's the former, but I'm not sure.
<psusi> goofy
<RAOF> Firmware isn't generally very interesting :)
<psusi> of course it is ;)
<psusi> all the driver does is forward commands from the higher layers to the firmware... the firmware is where it all actually happens... that's where the important stuff is
<RAOF> Given how small the firmware is compared to the rest of the stack, I beg to differ :)
<RAOF> (The firmware is ~2KiB, fglrx contains more code than the whole kernel)
<psusi> RAOF, how is that?  the driver just has to communicate with the card... the firmware running on the card is what actually implements all of the opengl calls
<pting> i'm trying to use prevu to generate a backport of maverick's puppet 2.6 to lucid, but prevu doesn't seem to accept my DIST, it keep defaulting to karmic
<pting> soren, if i wanted to backport something from maverick to lucid, am i suppose to use the following commands: DIST=lucid sudo -E prevu-init && DIST=lucid prevu mypackage ?
<MTecknology> I'm about to add a script to a package. The package has a BSD license so I figure I may as well make the script has the same license. The issue is that I have no idea wha the top of that file should look like..
<MTecknology> Any tips?
<micahg> MTecknology: what type of header do the other files have?
<MTecknology> micahg: there's a LISENCE file with http://dpaste.com/281813/ and the other files seem to just have a comment block with  * Copyright (C) Igor Sysoev
<micahg> MTecknology: sorry, I'm still a little fuzzy on licenses
<MTecknology> micahg: I'm completely fuzzy :P - I can pick the license I want, but that's about it
<MTecknology> oh... I think I figured it out
<dholbach> good morning!
<hrw> hi amitarora
<hrw> morning
<amitarora> hrw: Hello
<amitarora> hrw: Whom should I contact for sponsoring the package for the new tool that we have developed in Power Management work group of Linaro ?
<hrw> amitarora: powerdebug?
<amitarora> hrw: yes .. powerdebug
<amitarora> hrw: have a call in few mins .. will have to disconnect and connect again in sometime ..
<hrw> dholbach: can you help amitarora when he will be back?
<micahg> hrw: a new package needs 2 MOTU acks before uploading (sponsor can be one)
<hrw> micahg: or one coredev?
<micahg> hrw: no
<hrw> thx
<micahg> hrw: AFAIK at least :)
<amitarora> hrw: am back ..
<micahg> amitarora: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Going%20through%20MOTU
<amitarora> micahg: ok, will go through.. thanks!
<micahg> amitarora: if you don't get 2 reviews by the weekend, I"ll be happy to look at it
<amitarora> micahg: ok, thanks
<pwuertz> hi, I'm having trouble including an udev rule in my package. by default, the rule is given a priority of 40 after upgrading to 10.10
<pwuertz> if one wants to change the permissions of a device using an udev rule.. the default rule should be sufficient
<pwuertz> but the 50-udev-default.rules reset my permission changes
<pwuertz> using the standard debhelper scripts I named my rules file "packagename.udev" and the scripts install it using priority 40.. like "40-packagename.rules"
<pwuertz> how can I change thatÃ
<ari-tczew> ttx: so, gwt is to (fake)sync?
<ttx> ari-tczew: yes, the orig tarballs are not the same (same size, so probably just some timestamp differences)
<ari-tczew> ttx: I'll prepare a branch to fakesync. could you sponsor it?
<ari-tczew> (when it will be done)
<ttx> ari-tczew: sure, subscribe me
<ari-tczew> thanks
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: seen http://lwn.net/Articles/417946/ yet? :p
<cdbs> For everyone's info, this is bilalakhtar's new nick
<Pici> well, hes going to get a lot of accidental hilights...
<ScottK> Plenty of disdain too.
<jpds> ScottK: Ha.
<geser> does somebody know what this "OpenStack" is from which I get merge emails?
<micahg> geser: http://openstack.com/?
<geser> ScottK: when is a good time to ask lucas_ for an archive rebuild to see how many packages FTBFS since the --as-needed linker default change?
<ScottK> geser: You should talk to soren about openstack emails.
<ScottK> geser: I'd say anytime is good.
<lucas_> ScottK: geser: I'll add one to my TODO list
<geser> lucas_: thanks
<lucas_> we've got a new cluster to test anyway ;)
<ScottK> lucas_: Thanks.
<ScottK> Excellent.
<ScottK> We're also interested in python2.7 related failures too.
 * micahg is interested in xulrunner related breakage :)
<soren> ScottK, geser: You're getting merge e-mails?
<soren> ScottK, geser: Can you pastebin one of them so I know what we're talking about?
<soren> ScottK, geser: Oh, about this for instance? https://code.launchpad.net/~openstack-ubuntu-packagers/ubuntu/natty/nova/ubuntu-apport-hook/+merge/42364 ?
<soren> I'd be happy to spare you from getting the e-mails. I'm just not sure how. We have a team for doing openstack packaging. Openstack is in universe, so I added motu to the team (which we've long ago decided is the right thing to do for these things since everyone in ~motu can upload it anyway, so they might as well have access to the bzr branch).
<ebroder> soren: I think there's a, like, ubuntu-dev-without-spam group or something to that effect that you could add, although ~ubuntu-dev is obviously more inclusive than ~motu
<soren> For major changes, people may want to go through a merge proposal to get stuff reviewed.
<soren> ebroder: Exactly.
<soren> Oh, hang on.
<soren> I think I know what to do.
<ebroder> You could make a ~motu-without-spam list :)
<soren> ebroder: I'm not sure how that would work. The ubuntu-dev-without-spam team just has a team e-mail address set, AFAIK.
<soren> ebroder: So does ~motu.
<ebroder> Ah, I didn't realize that was the trick. No idea, then
<soren> I /think/ it is.
 * soren checks that too
<soren> ScottK, geser: I have no particular reservations removing ~motu from the team again. I just don't want to give the impression of being exclusive, because that's really not the intent.
<micahg> ah, so there's a MOTU bugs ML
<soren> Yes.
<soren> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev-without-bugmail
<soren> Is the without-spam one.
<soren> It has a /dev/null sort of e-mail address set.
<soren> But since the motu team also has an e-mail set and you guys /still/ see these e-mails, that clearly doesn't do the trick.
<micahg> soren: maybe those people are subscribed to the ML?
<soren> micahg: I glanced at the archive, didn't see the e-mails. I'll try looking harder.
<soren> Nope, nothing.
<soren> I can just remove ~motu and add to the description that anyone in ~motu is free to join the team?
<geser> soren: yes, that merge request (or similar ones) for example (don't have the exact mail anymore as I deleted them already)
<soren> geser: Ok.
<soren> How does my proposal (right above your comment) sound?
<soren> I'll let you catch up..
<geser> soren: I don't know how exactly LP mail work, but wouldn't setting a contact email for the openstack-ubuntu-packagers team work too?
<soren> geser: I doubt it.
<soren> geser: Since it doesn't do the trick for ~motu.
<soren> geser: Also, it's silly to have to maintain a separate mailing list for this.
<geser> soren: hmm. if you don't get too many complains about those mail you can leave the motu team as member, it's not that much emails that's a too big annoyance for me (yet)
<geser> just curious: does somebody from motu commit to those branches too?
<soren> geser: At the moment, it's just myself, zul, and Daviey.
<ajmitch_> soren: oddly, I don't seem to have received mail about the merge requests
 * ajmitch_ is only indirectly in ~motu at the moment
<highvoltage> you should be ashamed
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: why?
<highvoltage> just kidding :)
<soren> ajmitch_: orly? That's odd.
<ajmitch_> quite
<bcurtiswx> is there a way to find out where `menu_proxy_module_load' would come from ?
 * micahg hasn't gotten the e-mails either
<ari-tczew> could someone taker a look on bug 683838 ? there is a not sure delta related to python.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683838 in pymca (Ubuntu) "Please merge pymca 4.4.1p1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683838
<ari-tczew> !sru | apachelogger
<ubottu> apachelogger: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<glennricster1> I recently upload a dolphin-emu package to REVU.  Are there any MOTU's interested in reviewing it?
<glennricster1> The REVU link is http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/dolphin-emu
<micahg> glennricster1: I'll be happy to look at it over the weekend
<glennricster1> micahg:  Thanks.  Let me know what needs to be done.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-02
<stilia-johny_> hi
<stilia-johny_>  in synaptic we can see a screenshot of package! how can i add a screenshot IN my source???
<stilia-johny_>  and when i upload it on ppa and go to synaptic search my app view the screenshot!
<stilia-johny_> * stilia-johny_ ?
 * stilia-johny_ ?
 * stilia-johny_ any?
<RAOF> stilia-johny_: IIUC those screenshots come from screenshot.debian.org
<ulysses> stilia-johny_: AFAIK those screenshots come from Debian, see http://screenshots.debian.net/
<ulysses> ^^
<stilia-johny_> and how can i add my screenshot for my app?
<stilia-johny_> and how can i add my application there??
 * stilia-johny_ ?
<cdbs> bdrung: I was just added to pkg-miltimedia
<cdbs> I know what to do from now onwards. Thanks!
<cdbs> bdrung: BTW, what packages come under 'audacious packages'? I think only audacious and audacious-plugins
<fabrice_sp> micahg, fyi, I commented on dolphin-emu package
<fabrice_sp> (in REVU)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: cool, thanks
<fabrice_sp> yw ;-) I was going to have a look at packaging it myself, so better have a look at an existing one :-)
 * micahg needs to become an Admin on REVU
<fabrice_sp> Admin?!
 * fabrice_sp is just a reviewer :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: I thought you didn't need .install and .dirs if there was only one binary package
<fabrice_sp> micahg, in this case, he is doing cp in the rules file
<fabrice_sp> and also a mkdir, so better to use dirs and .install files IMHO
<micahg> fabrice_sp: and just add debian/tmp/*?
<fabrice_sp> if that would have been the case, you would have been right, but xpm in the not installed by upstream and manually copied
<micahg> fabrice_sp: why not just patch the upstream code to install it?
<fabrice_sp> less intrusive?
<fabrice_sp> it's also a posiblity
<fabrice_sp> anyway, desktop file is not upstream
<fabrice_sp> so it has to be installed manually
<micahg> fabrice_sp: well, depending on how many lines you need to add to .install, it might be easier, also, there's no dh helper for .desktop files?
<fabrice_sp> not anymore
<fabrice_sp> dh_desktop got deprecated some versions ago
<fabrice_sp> anyway, you're free to comment and disagree with me in REVU :-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: not at all, just trying to learn :)
 * micahg hasn't made anything from scratch yet
<fabrice_sp> you already know a lot! :-)
<fabrice_sp> ohh: it's harder than you think
<fabrice_sp> espcially if copyright is crazy
<fabrice_sp> (here, it seems to be a nightmare, with a lot of 'external' software)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: doesn't external software have to be packaged separately?
<fabrice_sp> yep
<fabrice_sp> and in this case, a lot is already in Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> so my guess is that it will take time to have dolphin in Ubuntu
<fabrice_sp> (package required software and then desactivate the bulding of those modules in Dolphin)
<cdbs> Hello there fabrice_sp !
<fabrice_sp> cdbs?
<cdbs> fabrice_sp: I am bilal akhtar
<fabrice_sp> ohhhh
<fabrice_sp> for a moment, I thought you would argue about me recommending dh7 in revu :-)
<fabrice_sp> you will have a lot of false highlights!
<cdbs> no, I myself prefer dh7
<cdbs> fabrice_sp: I know, many of the in #ubuntu-devel when someone asks : Do you use cdbs for package foo?
<cdbs> I had the hilight installed since before I changed my nick, just for a test
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<cdbs> *highlight
<cdbs> g2g
<fabrice_sp> breakfast time :-)
<dholbach> good morning!
<cdbs> bdrung: came back?
<bdrung> now i am here
<tumbleweed> bdrung: landed pbuilder-dist changes, I'm happy with them.
<bdrung> tumbleweed: great, i will look at it tonight
<shadeslayer> how do you deal with old packages with new names?
<shadeslayer> do you retain the changelog ? ...
 * shadeslayer looks at Debian Wiki
<soren> shadeslayer: That's what I'd do, yes.
<geser> shadeslayer: the renamed packages that I looked at till now kept the changelog entries for the old source package name (it's also part of the history of this package and it makes it easier to see when a source package got renamed)
<shadeslayer> geser: so 1) make a dummy package for natty with all the history , 2) keep previous history for new package
<shadeslayer> debian wiki doesnt say anything about changelog histories tho...
<geser> shadeslayer: why dummy package?
<geser> what exactly do you want to rename?
<shadeslayer> because debian wiki says i need to create a dummy package to transition from the old on
<shadeslayer> http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package
<geser> ah, that's for transitioning binary package renames
<shadeslayer> Kubuntu-konqueror-shortcuts -> kubuntu-web-shortcuts
<shadeslayer> so i just replace and conflict the old package?
<geser> yes, I'm not sure if Breaks is needed too, not up-to-date on this part of policy
<geser> shadeslayer: for renaming the source package: just replace all occurances of the old name with the new name and add a new changelog entry for the new source package name too the existing debian/changelog (perhaps also mentioning the rename in the changelog entry)
<shadeslayer> ok :)
<kklimonda1> dholbach: hmm, what's wrong with gtkmm?
<kklimonda1> dholbach: the update is to 2.22.0 and not to 2.20.3
<dholbach> kklimonda1, oops
<dholbach> kklimonda1, I'll have a look at it when I'm back from lunch
<kklimonda1> sure, no problem
<dholbach> kklimonda1, can you mark it as 'needs review' again?
<kklimonda1> dholbach: just so you know it won't build right now - I've requested this mege for Sebastien to keep track of it because he has to sponsor atkmm1.6 upload first.
<kklimonda1> dholbach: will do
<dholbach> if seb didn't get to it before I do, I'll have a look at atkmm too
<dholbach> to repent for my sin of rejecting your merge proposal
<dholbach> see you later :)
<KNRO> Hello, quick question: can you build Lucid packages using pbuilder while I'm using Maverick?
<popey> KNRO: yes
<KNRO> popey: pbuilder will figure this out itself from the changefile or I have to manually rebuild the base package?
<popey> hmm, I do pbuilder-dist and specify the release
<popey> pbuilder-dist lucid create
<popey> pbuilder-dist lucid build foo.dsc
<KNRO> don't have pbuilder-dist , can I use pbuilder --distrbution lucid instead?
<popey> pass
<KNRO> ok downloading now ubuntu-dev-tools
<popey> sorry, I'm not a motu, just a pretender
<directhex> KNRO: pbuilder-dist makes it easy... i basically emulate pbuilder-dist using environment variables
<dholbach> kklimonda1, do you have a url for the atkmm one?
<kklimonda1> dholbach: bug 672817
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 672817 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] atkmm1.6" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672817
<kklimonda1> dholbach: there is a revu bug in the link
<kklimonda1> dholbach: there is still one bug in atkmm packaging -- I was sick for few days and haven't uploaded the right package to revu apparently.. I though I did.
<dholbach> kklimonda, but you're better again now?
<dholbach> kklimonda, my only hesitation about atkmm packaging would be the new debhelper version - if you don't use it for a specific reason (I didn't find out), I'd probably use a lower version, so you can still do backports
<kklimonda> dholbach: well, I'm well enough to use computer :)
<kklimonda> dholbach: downgrade it to 7 then?
<dholbach> that's at least something :)
<dholbach> if you don't need debhelper8 for something specific I think that'd be reasonable
<kklimonda> no, I don't think I use anything specific to 8
<dholbach> kklimonda, gtkmm misses a build-depends on libatkmm-1.6-dev
<dholbach> and gtkmm ftbfs
<kklimonda> dholbach: it doesn't miss a dependency.. no wait, it does.. wth?
<kklimonda> i have it right here..
<dholbach> kklimonda, BUILD-depends
<dholbach> I just commented on the merge proposal
<kklimonda> dholbach: yes, I see.. but it's here.. I have two branches - one for packaging only and another for the whole package :/
<dholbach> hang on
<dholbach> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kklimonda/gtkmm/packaging/annotate/head%3A/debian/control.in
<dholbach> search for 'libatkmm-1.6-dev'
<dholbach> kklimonda, ^
<kklimonda> dholbach: yes, I can see it
<dholbach> am I blind?
<dholbach> :)
<nigelb> heh
<dholbach> I still can't see it there
<kklimonda> dholbach: no, I see it in my local branch :)
<dholbach> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<dholbach> well
<kklimonda> and I can see that it's missing from the branch that I pushed
<dholbach> if I could see it in your local branch you'd have a problem :)
 * dholbach hugs kklimonda
<dholbach> and gtkmm ftbfs for me, I added the log snippet to the merge proposal
<kklimonda> yes, I can see that.. that's weird
<dholbach> maybe seb128 has an idea?
<kklimonda> I'll ask him and see if I can make it fail here. I did build it, you know? ;)
<kklimonda> I did it a week ago, maybe something changed in natty since then?
<dholbach> kklimonda, I believe you - don't worry :)
<dholbach> yeah, things are pretty much in flux right now
<kklimonda> I don't really worry, I'm just a bit surprised :)
<kklimonda> dholbach: hmm, it doesn't fail in my pbuilder..
<kklimonda> dholbach: I login into pbuilder chroot, install all build-deps, atkmm debs and run debuild
<kklimonda> I've pushed it to PPA and see if I can reproduce failure there
<dholbach> kklimonda, thanks!
<jetienne> offtopic: when upgrading from one release to the next, this is downloading in 5min here. but then i got 2h of disk+cpu before it is completed. can someone explain to me how come this is so long ?
<directhex> probably more of apt's fsync() stuff slowing it down
<jetienne> i was thinking that all is install in sequence... this is likely quite suboptimal too
<AJenbo> Hi, i made a ppa, and build a package on my local machine, but after uploading about a week ago the package still dosn't appear in my ppa
<AJenbo> What might i be doing wrong?
<ari-tczew> AJenbo: did you receive a confirmation e-mail?
<AJenbo> dput ppa:ajenbo/id-game-ports ../ioquake3_1.36_i386.changes
<AJenbo> ari-tczew, no
<AJenbo> it uploades the compressed source and changes, but after that nothing happens
<ari-tczew> AJenbo: you should receive an e-mail about accept or reject
<AJenbo> hmm
<ari-tczew> AJenbo: did you try to upload again?
<AJenbo> yes, i also uploaeded from my 64bit machine
<AJenbo> If i try again i get
<AJenbo> ppa:ajenbo/id-game-ports
<AJenbo> Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net
<AJenbo> Nothing more to do for ../ioquake_1.36_i386.changes
<AJenbo> https://launchpad.net/~ajenbo/+archive/id-game-ports
<ari-tczew> AJenbo: delete file *upload
<AJenbo> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/exYnbyWK
<SpamapS> AJenbo: is the GPG key you used to sign the package attached to your launchpad account?
<AJenbo> yes
<SpamapS> AJenbo: also you can only upload source packages
<SpamapS> AJenbo: you should have gotten a rejection email telling you that
<AJenbo> SpamapS, isn't what i have a source package?
<AJenbo> it contains all the source code
<ari-tczew> AJenbo: you should receive a confirmation email. please go on #launchpad and ask there.
<AJenbo> I did not get any mails from the system
<AJenbo> ari-tczew, ok thanks
<jetienne> if i kill metacity, is it relaunch automatically ?
<jetienne> arg bad channel sorry
<SpamapS> Aj
<SpamapS> sorry
<SpamapS> AJenbo: that also included the binary package though
<SpamapS> AJenbo: use 'debuild -S' to produce a source-only changes file
<AJenbo> SpamapS, thanks
<bdrung> tumbleweed: around?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i searched for remaining bugs for pbuilder-dist and found bug #371221
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 371221 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[pbuilder-dist] Use packages from ~/pbuilder/dist_result to satisfy deps" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/371221
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-03
<micahg> does reverse-build-depends work for anyone else?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> micahg: What's your problem?
 * ScottK is going to guess it's that the version is hard coded in the script and so you have to edit it if you want a different one.
<hyperair> jpds: ping
<micahg> ScottK: I get a message about being unable to find source files
<ScottK> micahg: That's the one.  If you go to the line number in the error message, you'll find the edit you need to make is pretty obvious I think.
<micahg> ScottK: got it, I just need to pass --distribution maverick (or enable natty sources)
<ScottK> I always just edit the file, but yes.
<micahg> that's probably easier in case I forget
<micahg> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<spaceboy909> Are packaging questions ok in here?
<dholbach> good morning!
<Daviey> Hi, would someone be able to sponsor merge bug #683893 please ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 683893 in writer2latex (Ubuntu) "Please merge writer2latex 1.0.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683893
<beerpages> Erstelle dir deine eigene Umfrage - Beispiel: http://www.beerpages.de/view/2H/Anti-%22Die%20%C3%84rzte%22%20Kampagne
<EvaLuaTe> hello
<EvaLuaTe> does ubuntu also take packages from PPAs?
<EvaLuaTe> I mean, do they include packages from PPA's in their own repository? I currently have a RFS open on debian for my package and it seems it'll still gonna take some time until it gets uploaded. I have made a PPA for ubuntu though, and I was curios if those get "scanned" by the ubuntu team automatically or if someone has to explicitely submit such a PPA to be included in the ubuntu repos...
<Laney> EvaLuaTe: who did you submit the RFS to? A packaging team or debian-mentors?
<EvaLuaTe> Laney, debian-mentors...
<Laney> and to answer your question: nobody looks on PPAs â you have to manually request inclusion
<Laney> You may find a dedicated team more responsive and amenable to your request. :)
<Laney> http://wiki.debian.org/Teams#Packagingteams
<EvaLuaTe> hmm
<EvaLuaTe> well, since I already submited a RFS to the debian-mentors list, I guess I can't submit another one to also pkg-gnome for example, or would this be acceptable?
<EvaLuaTe> also, how would I request inclusion of my PPA into ubuntu?
<Laney> just cross-reference them, it should be fine
<Laney> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<EvaLuaTe> Laney, sorry but this is my first time "participating" in a mailing list. what exactly do you mean with cross-reference? Do you mean that when I contact the pkg-gnome team, I should tell them that there is also an open RFS for that pcakage on debian-mentors?
<Laney> right. :)
<Laney> you could go to #debian-gnome on OFTC
<EvaLuaTe> oh, thank you very much for the help! :-)
<EvaLuaTe> s/oh/ok/
<hyperair> iulian: ping
<hyperair> iulian: pidgin-facebookchat stopped working, and there's a new upstream release fixing it. could you update the package?
<Laney> is that package necessary now that fb offers xmpp?
<cdbs> bdrung: there?
<geser> lucas: would it be easily possible to add to http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi when the last rebuild happened (on which date it was done)?
<RainCT> Hey sebner
<sebner> hola  RainCT =)
<RainCT> sebner: Now you can ask me to sponsor stuff for you again :P
<mok0> How can you prevent all kind of junk going into debian/patches/debian-changes-* ???
<RainCT> mok0: Other than fixing your clean rule?
<mok0> I am think specifically of gnu autotools stuff
<mok0> RainCT: yeah
<sebner> RainCT: Did I miss something? DD already? =)
<mok0> I am having the problem because I maintain packaging in a bzr branch
<mok0> and of course the branch does not include autotools files
<mok0> .... but they are in the tar.gz file
<mok0> ... which is made by doing "make dist"
<mok0> I can't see any way out of this dilemma
<bdrung> mok0: remove them on clean
<mok0> bdrung: I guess
<bdrung> mok0: removed files shouldn't end up in the diff (or do they?)
<mok0> bdrung: but it's kludgy
<bdrung> mok0: then add the files to your branch
<mok0> bdrung: because we never know when autotools change and decides to put new files in there
<mok0> bdrung: no, they don
<mok0> don
<mok0> don't belong in the branch
<bdrung> mok0: you could use helper tools to update the autotools files
<bdrung> mok0: maybe separate packaging branch?
<mok0> bdrung: I have that
<mok0> bdrung: but the auto generated files keep changing and I don't want them in the repo
<mok0> bdrung: I run autoreconfig at build time
<mok0> (in principle)
<mok0> I like best deleting them in the clean target
<bdrung> mok0: then remove the autogenerated files on clean (maybe some helper tools may help)
<mok0> hrpmÃ¥h
<RainCT> sebner: Yeah!
<mok0> bdrung: yes :-)
<sebner> RainCT: congrats!
<RainCT> Thanks :)
<mok0> RainCT: nice going
<hakermania> hello all, may I ask something? In most of the programs in the Ubuntu Software Center there are pictures (an external picture and a picture shown when you click More Info and usually shows some functions) . What about these pictures? After I finish packaging should I do something to show them if REVU accept my package?
<hakermania> [did I post here? (if yes, sorry I reconnected): hello all, may I ask something? In most of the programs in the Ubuntu Software Center there are pictures (an external picture and a picture shown when you click More Info and usually shows some functions) . What about these pictures? After I finish packaging should I do something to show them if REVU accept my package?
<ScottK> The screen shots are from screenshots.debian.net
<ScottK> So get your package in Debian and then submit a screenshot there is, AFAIK, the answer.
<hakermania> "get your package in Debian" ? My package is designed for ubuntu only!
<geser> why is it Ubuntu only?
<superm1> it doesnt have to be in debian to get the screenshot submitted
<superm1> if it's in just ubuntu, it still works if there a screenshot at screenshots.debian.net (which allows uploads for packages not in debian)
<hakermania> ok, so, let's say I upload a screenshot to screenshots.debian, how do I declare it in order to be used with my package submitted to REVU?
<hakermania> my package hasn't yet been approved by REVU, so it isn't in the list of screenshots.debian (http://screenshots.debian.net/upload) should i wait my package to be accepted to be able to upload an image?
<hakermania> I'll be back in 1.30 hours. You'let me know then.... :/
<hakermania> hello all, I have packaged my application for REVU, but I need to know how exactly the image of the package will be defined. I've heard about debian.screenshots.net but (of course) my package cannot be found in http://screenshots.debian.net/upload because REVU hasn't accepted it yet! What's the process I have to follow?
<hyperair> the REVU process brings your package into Ubuntu, not into Debian
<hakermania> yes I know but I was told 2 hours ago in this channel that I have to go to sreenshots.debian.net and have my screenshot there for ubuntu too.
<hakermania> anybody to help out there?
<hakermania> 208 people and nobody willing to help me out? --_--'
<AnAnt> Hello, is binutils-gold part of the toolchain for Natty ?
<micahg> AnAnt: I think some of the features are, idk if it is specifically
<AnAnt> ok
<hyperair> hakermania: sorry, it's exam period at the moment for me. you'll just have to wait a while, people don't stare at their irc clients all the time.
<hakermania> I'm half an hour here :/
<micahg> hakermania: and not everyone is familiar with how screenshots.d.o works
<hakermania> one in 207 in the appropriate channel should be :/
<AnAnt> ?
<micahg> hakermania: what makes this channel appropriate for such a question?
<hakermania> A lot of people here had their programs uploaded to REVU and know the answer
<micahg> hakermania: REVU has nothing to do with screenshots.d.o
<Nafallo> hakermania: what are you trying to achieve?
<AnAnt> maybe guys  #debian-mentors @ OFTC can help ?
<Nafallo> (the full 9 yards plan)
<hakermania> What I am trying to do is to know how programs in Ubuntu Software Center have their pics declared and where (has nothing to do with packaging)
<AnAnt> hakermania: I thought you want to upload some screenshots
<hakermania> Yes, in debian.screenshots.net as i was told a couple of hours ago.
<Nafallo> hakermania: so first of, it's wouldn't be about programs in REVU, but in Ubuntu itself. second of, I would say #ubuntu-desktop is better for Ubuntu Software Center than this channel.
<hakermania> --_--' I hate being sent from channel to channel. Anyway, ty
<AnAnt> hakermania: I never tried to upload a screenshot, did you try there ?
<hakermania> AnAnt: I can't upload a screenshot there. The program hasn't yet be accepted and debian.screenshots.net lists only the programs that have been accepted. Anyway, I'm changing channel
<Nafallo> hakermania: well, I believe the question is out of scope for this channel, and being sent to another channel that might be able to give you an answer shouldn't be that far-fetched :-)
<hakermania> ok
<hakermania> bb
<AnAnt> hakermania: I am using elinks to browse http://screenshots.debian.net/upload, I don't see a dropdown list
<hakermania> AnAnt: try to write out a package-name in the Package name: field that doesn't exist plz
<hakermania> like: sdfasdfas
<hakermania> bb
<AnAnt> ah, so you'll have to wait till it is accepted in Ubuntu
<AnAnt> I don't understand what he wants to achieve
 * micahg thinks he wants SC images from a package in a PPA
<Nafallo> not PPA, REVU from what I understand.
<AnAnt> why the rush ?
<Nafallo> I believe the answer is that the package has to land in Debian first.
<Nafallo> but I don't know that for certain.
<AnAnt> Nafallo: I don't think so, I just tried for a package that's in Ubuntu only, and the upload got accepted
<AnAnt> Nafallo: but still awaiting review though
<Nafallo> ah. so at least be in a proper archive somewhere then :-)
<AnAnt> yup
<iulian> hyperair: Sure mate.  I'm going to upload it either tonight or tomorrow morning.
<maxb> How is pycentral's /var/lib/pycentral/<package>.pkgremove file supposed to be used?
<iulian> hyperair: I don't know why I'm not getting bug mail.
<maxb> As far as I can see, the old package's prerm has run before there's anything a new version of the package could do to create a signal file
<iulian> Oh yea.  I'm co-maintaining it.
<iulian> Laney_: Not sure about it as I'm not using pidgin-fb myself.  I'm not even on facebook so I cannot say much.  Take a look at http://code.google.com/p/pidgin-facebookchat/wiki/XMPPDifferences.
<hyperair> iulian: because you're not the Maintainer.
<hyperair> iulian: you'll need to subscribe at packages.qa.debian.org/pidgin-facebookchat
<iulian> hyperair: <iulian> Oh yea.  I'm co-maintaining it.
<hyperair> Laney_: i use pidgin-fbchat because my university's panel of monkeys somehow managed to have a 99% hit rate on cutting unencrypted XMPP connections short halfway.
<hyperair> Laney_: at least when pidgin attempts it. it succeeds with empathy, but empathy doesn't quite meet my expectations yet, so i don't use it
<hyperair> iulian: ah right.
<hyperair> iulian: sorry, i'm sleepy and the red stuff really stands out so that's all i saw. =p
<iulian> hyperair: It's alright.  I'm gonna upload it in a couple of minutes.  Would you like to co-maintain it as well?
<iulian> hyperair: Uploaded.  Thanks for bringing it up.
<hyperair> thanks for uploading =)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-04
<ari-tczew> could someone open task on maverick in bug 669066 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 669066 in fetchmail (Ubuntu) "fetchmailconf: fetchmailconf.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/669066
<c2tarun> i create a group name admin in my chroot environment and added a "admin ALL=(ALL) ALL" to /etc/sudoers file. then i created a user account and added this account to admin group. now when i m executing any command with sudo privileges i m getting the error that tarun is not in sudoer list??? can anyone please help
<ebroder> c2tarun: That's really more about using Ubuntu than developing Ubuntu. #ubuntu might be a little more appopriate. But you want %admin, not admin to refer to a group
<c2tarun> sorry for asking here and thanks a lot.
<lucas> geser: not easy to add it to the cgi, but you can get it from one of the logs' header
<geser> lucas: I somehow missed to spot the date in the log header as I usually jump to the end of the log
<danielrichter200> Hi, I want to upload my new application grub-customizer to revu. Everything seems to be ok (no dput errors), but grub-customizer didn't appear in the list. Uploading to my launchpad ppa is no problem. Do I have to upload gpg keys to devu too (they are allready at launchpad)?
<danielrichter200> this is my dput.conf:
<danielrichter200> [revu]
<danielrichter200> fqdn = revu.ubuntuwire.com
<danielrichter200> incoming = /incoming
<danielrichter200> login = anonymous
<danielrichter200> progress_indicator = 2
<danielrichter200> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
<c2tarun> i have an issue with chroot. this comes under ubuntu operations (so i know that this is not the place to ask) but no one is able to solve my problem can i ask it here
<pqatsi> a question about package naming:
<pqatsi>   wireshark-common: Depends: libwireshark0 (>= 1.4.2-1) but 1.4.2-1~exp2 is to be installed.
<pqatsi>   wireshark: Depends: libwireshark0 (>= 1.4.2-1) but 1.4.2-1~exp2 is to be installed.
<pqatsi> i cant understand why apt cant see the version number is the same
<pqatsi> even with ~exp2
<pqatsi> ok i use to make packet names like 1.4.2-1ppa1 as example
<pqatsi> but i think apt should recognize this notation. what is wrong?
<jcfp> pqatsi: 1.4.2-1~exp2 is smaller than 1.4.2-1, you depend on >= so it won't work
<jcfp> >= 1.4.2-1~ might work, not sure though
<pqatsi> jcfp: what passed me by i cant see
<pqatsi> ?
<jcfp> that the tilde lowers the version
<pqatsi> hmmm
<jcfp> i.e. 1.0-1~foo is smaller than 1.0-1
<pqatsi> just tilde do this?
<jcfp> afaik
 * pqatsi think its weird....
<jcfp> that's why it's used with ppa, makes ppa lower than official repository
<coolbhavi> jcfp, exactly
<pqatsi> jcfp: but this case something conflicts
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, are you installing from PPA?
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: this package, yes.
<pqatsi> but i didnt realize ~lower the version even for =
 * pqatsi think it will repackage this
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, thats how ppa's are named as jcfp mentioned
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: i know, but i didnt realized tilde breaks =
<pqatsi> if the version is the same number
<pqatsi> (major and minor)
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, hmm
<pqatsi> i used to think tilde brokes only if version is +1 bigger
<pqatsi> and if version is equal and have both packages in repos, the priority of ppa got lowered
<pqatsi> anyway
<pqatsi> i think the packager made a mistake
<pqatsi> Version: 1.4.2-1~exp2 // Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.21.6), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpcap0.8 (>= 0.9.8), libportaudio2 (>= 19+svn20100220), libwireshark0 (>= 1.4.2-1), libwiretap0, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), wireshark-common (= 1.4.2-1~exp2)
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: the packager forgot to satisfy the libwireshark0 dep.
<coolbhavi> hmm what do you exactly want to do?
<coolbhavi> as i see new version of wireshark was uploaded to natty just a while back
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: before, install wireshark from this ppa
<pqatsi> now, ill fix this deps
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: suggesting backport?
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, reason?
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: no reason, i just need wireshark, and i dont know why this repo are here, but if i have this error, i want to fixit
 * pqatsi want to improve packaging skills
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, okay but unless you have a strong reason no need of a backport request
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: i do just for me
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: my main backport project now is backport emdebian tools from debian unstable to stable (for a job) and after, to ubuntu
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, then its fine but officially you need to have a valid reason
<pqatsi> coolbhavi: i know. oficially dont need a backport
<pqatsi> just for me
<coolbhavi> pqatsi, okay :)
<pqatsi> but if the emdebian job finish well, i will try submit for revu
<coolbhavi> hey ari-tczew
<coolbhavi> how are you doing?
<ari-tczew> hello coolbhavi
<ari-tczew> I'm quite fine, thanks. how about you?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, I m fine too mate shall I take a look at enna ftbfs now?
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: do you ask me to do it?
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, if you have no issues ll take a look so
<ari-tczew> coolbhavi: go ahead
<coolbhavi> ari-tczew, thanks!
<ari-tczew> you're welcome
<pqatsi> Rejected:
<pqatsi> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<pqatsi> and just this error, have no another issue in the mail
<pqatsi> ive used maverick as series
<pqatsi> after this ive tried to change to stable, but said series dont exist
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: use natty - current development cycle.
<pqatsi> eeven if the package ill send to ppa is specifically for maverick
<pqatsi> ?
<ari-tczew> !sru | pqatsi
<ubottu> pqatsi: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<pqatsi> ari-tczew: im building for ppa, and must to be available for maverick
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: so I guess that problem is with version in debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> add to version ~maverick1
<pqatsi> and keep maverick?
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: yes
<pqatsi> Last: (20070115-14) unstable; urgency=low // Now:  (20070115-15~maverick1) maverick; urgency=low
<pqatsi> this way?
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: no no no! please don't change Debian revision
<ari-tczew> please keep -14
<pqatsi> even if im patching souce?
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: let use: (20070115-14ubuntu1~maverick1)
<pqatsi> ok
<pqatsi> dont work
<pqatsi> Rejected:
<pqatsi> Not permitted to upload to the RELEASE pocket in a series in the 'CURRENT' state.
<pqatsi> aiccu (20070115-15ubuntu1~maverick1) maverick; urgency=low
<pqatsi> aff, now i saw i didnt reverted
<pqatsi> sry
<ari-tczew> [;
<pqatsi> aiccu (20070115-14ubuntu1~maverick1) maverick; urgency=low
<pqatsi> again, same error ari-tczew
<pqatsi> this never happened with me, i cant understand why
<ari-tczew> pqatsi: could you give me a link to your PPA?
<pqatsi> https://launchpad.net/~leleobhz/+archive/ppa
<mr_pouit> pqatsi: are you sure you're uploading to your ppa? (and not the ubuntu archive)
<pqatsi> ill run dput verbatin
<pqatsi> let me see
<ari-tczew> that's what I wanted to ask
<ari-tczew> what is the command which you use pqatsi?
<pqatsi> use dput directly, but use .dputrc
<pqatsi> ill recreate the . file
<ari-tczew> it should be: dput ppa:leleobhz/ppa *.changes
<pqatsi> something with my dputrc are wrong... forcing repo in commandline appeared to work
<wolfrage> Hi I want to confirm a few things. One you can not make blueprints for a PPA in launch pad correct?
<ari-tczew> wolfrage: -> #launchpad
<wolfrage> but the question relates to development
<wolfrage> just trying to get the process for Ubuntu down.
<wolfrage> With that in mind is it ok to create a project for a patch that I am creating. The patch is actually a feature plugin. It is for Empathy/Telepathy in order to support OTR.
<wolfrage> I basicly want this because i want to be able to share blueprints and allow others to help me, as I have gotten a few people together that have offered to help.
<wolfrage> #launchpad is not answering my second question, so as the MOTU, what do you say? Is it ok to use Luanch Pad in this way?
<wolfrage> I got an answer now.
<ari-tczew> gilir: how is going progress of sync lxpanel and lxde-common?
<gilir> ari-tczew, I'm on it, changes for lxpanel are already in Ubuntu, lxde-common needs changes with the new pcmanfm
<ari-tczew> gilir: so, can we sync lxpanel?
<gilir> ari-tczew, no, there are specific Ubuntu changes that can't be sync with Debian
<ari-tczew> gilir: and these changes are not forwardable?
<gilir> ari-tczew, no
<ari-tczew> ok, so package needs merging then
<gilir> ari-tczew, I can upload to Debian LXDE packaging, so I have no interest to maintain delta with Ubuntu when it's not necessary
<ari-tczew> gilir: would be nice
#ubuntu-motu 2010-12-05
<crimsun> ari-tczew: the debian-ubuntu debdiff that you attached to #685345 is for fetchmail, not j-a-c-k.
<ari-tczew> crimsun: ah, late time... I'm on it
<ari-tczew> crimsun: fixed. wanna sponsor?
<crimsun> ari-tczew: uploaded, thanks!
<ari-tczew> crimsun: np. wanna sponsor also fetchmail? (:
<crimsun> bug # ?
<ari-tczew> crimsun: bug 685065
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 685065 in fetchmail (Ubuntu) "Merge fetchmail 6.3.18-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/685065
<crimsun> ari-tczew: uploaded, thanks!
<ari-tczew> crimsun: np, thanks me too
<ianm_1> anyone interested in helping package up a ruby app this evening?
<ssj6akshat> I submitted a patch using submittodebian tool
<ssj6akshat> how do I confirm it has reached the BTS?
<micahg> ssj6akshat: you should get an email?
<ssj6akshat> micahg, in how much time?
<micahg> ssj6akshat: a couple hours
 * ssj6akshat doesn't like to wait
<micahg> ssj6akshat: patience is very important :)
<ssj6akshat> should I add the patch to the launchpad bug as well?
<micahg> ssj6akshat: if you're using submittodebian I assume it's already been fixed in natty?
<ssj6akshat> micahg, ah well, here is the debdiff http://paste.ubuntu.com/539895/
<ssj6akshat> bug #602671
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602671 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Description: p7zip " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602671
<micahg> ssj6akshat: first, you should target to natty instead of maverick, after that, yes you should attach it, also, I would think type of bug the change should be approved before forwarding
<ssj6akshat> micahg, whoops it should be natty
 * ssj6akshat spent a whole day learning how to fix this
<micahg> ssj6akshat: please link the Debian bug when you have it
<ssj6akshat> ok
<micahg> ssj6akshat: also, see my comment in teh bug, your patch is lacking something that's in the current description
<ssj6akshat> micahg, I do not understand what you said in the bug
<micahg> ssj6akshat: the description explains why you should install p7zip instead of p7zip-full
<micahg> ssj6akshat: also, I think you misunderstood what the 2 sections in the description were for, the first paragraph was explaining what the current package does, the second about the alternative
<ssj6akshat> micahg, p7zip doesn't appear in software center but rather p7zip-full does
<micahg> ssj6akshat: they should both be available
<vish> micahg: it's hidden as a technical item..
<micahg> vish: but it's not
<vish> hmm.. /me not sure about that, maybe thats another bug we need to get fixed..
<vish> seems someone decided p7zip-full is better than confusing users with too many options..
<micahg> vish: it's for people that only need 7zip archives and not the rest
 * micahg is not in favor of hiding things
<vish> right, but the person needs to be technical enough to realize he will not ever need any of the other archive types. ;)
<micahg> vish: also, we can't change the description just to look good in SC, it has to reflect the nature of the packages as well
<ssj6akshat> micahg, software center shows Version:9.04~dfsg.1-1 (p7zip-full) for 7zip
<vish> micahg: yea, but what are we missing there? (which does not reflect good on the package)
<micahg> vish: I commented in the bug on that, the current description shows what is in teh pacakge and what the other one does
 * vish confused, reads comment again..
<micahg> vish: p7zip explains what p7zip is and why you might want p7zip-full, p7zip-full does the opposite
<vish> micahg: we are changing only the description for p7zip-full.. not touching p7zip now, since its hidden
<micahg> vish: right, but you need to keep the explanation of what the 2 packages are
<vish> oh are you saying that the description needs to mention '-full' ?
<micahg> vish: it's fine to clarify points in the description
<micahg> vish: yes, and also a short summary of p7zip like the current description
<vish> micahg: i dont see why the user needs to know it is the -full , the package title itself is "7zip", the -full part is just a package details/packaging technicality . why bother the user with that? is it going to harm them?  rather if this was a limited package then i see the need for stressing that "this package is $foo and no such options are here, look at the other $bar"
<micahg> vish: because this description has to work for both distros
<vish> micahg: why would it be wrong in any other distro?
<vish> we just treat the p7zip-full package as the main package, just like there is only one 7zip
<micahg> vish: right, but we can't do that since it's not and the description needs to work for cli users in Debian and Ubuntu as well
<vish> micahg: maybe i'm not understanding something here, why is it not the main package? is there any other main p7zip package?
<vish> for cli it does mention "Additionally, it provides you with the 7z and 7za commands at the command line."
<micahg> vish: it's not about main vs not main, there's the full version and the one with just the 7z utils
<vish> micahg: p7zip is the one with just the utils?
<micahg> vish: yes
<vish> micahg: so would "Complete list of supported formats handled in p7zip-full:" be better?
<micahg> vish: yes, and also, we should keep the short description of p7zip
<vish> micahg: you mean this last line? "p7zip provides 7zr, a light version of 7za, and p7zip a gzip like wrapper around 7zr.""
<micahg> vish: yes
<vish>  nah.. then that just ends up being confusing. and user will wonder what is difference between p7zip and p7zip-full, rather we can probably make it better in the p7zip description
<micahg> vish: it's common for descriptions to list alternative choices when appropriate, I don't think the Debian maintainer will drop it
<vish> micahg: well, let's try first.. :)
<vish> oh i so wish that they would just publish the SC usability testing data.. would save a lot of explaining :)
<vish> debian folks are too adamant at times :(
 * vish hides
<micahg> vish: SC is not the only package interface
<micahg> vish: that's what I was trying to explain before
<vish> micahg: yea.. but still for whom are such packages meant for?
<micahg> vish: anyone
<vish> micahg: remember we are not trying to fix every description out there. :)
<vish>  and everyone needs to understand. and not get confused.
<micahg> vish: yes, but you have to balance the casual user with the technical user
<vish> yup..
<micahg> and we can't hijack Debian's description because it's better for our users, we can enhance the description to make things clearer
<vish> hehe! ;)
<vish> micahg: no one said we would hijack, first we send them a description, if they are OK, we use it..
<vish> else we tweak
<micahg> vish: I'd rather send one they're less likely to reject, but c'est la vie
<vish> ;)
<spaceboy> Hi guys
<spaceboy> I noticed the packaging channel doesn't have a lot of activity.  Should I just ask packaging questions in this channel instead?
<micahg> spaceboy: well, it's the weekend, so it's a little slow, but I didn't see any questions there in the last several hours
<MTecknology> What was the dh tool for editing the changelog?
<c2tarun> MTecknology: i think its "dch -i"
<c2tarun> try it
<MTecknology> thanks
<MTecknology> hm.. it doesn't like me
<MTecknology> it doesn't like that the upper level isn't the version number
<MTecknology> looks like dch -e changelog 'should' work but it still complains
<MTecknology> dch: fatal error at line 616:  Found debian/changelog for package nginx in the directory  /home/builder/collab-nginx/trunk  but this directory name does not match the package name according to the  regex  PACKAGE(-.+)?.
<micahg> MTecknology: to edit the current entry, use dch if it's your first time editing, or dch -e if you've edited it before, use dch -i to add a new entry on top
<MTecknology> micahg: I tried -e to edit an existing entry but got the same error
<MTecknology> micahg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/539919/
<micahg> MTecknology: no, in the trunk dir run dch -e
<MTecknology> oh!
<micahg> or dch if you're not the one in the changelog entry
<MTecknology> thanks :)
<micahg> ricotz: why aren't you in uploaders for docky?
<micahg> or can you not upload?
<ricotz> micahg, i cant upload
<micahg> ricotz: I'm test building your sync request now BTW
<ricotz> micahg, thanks
<ricotz> micahg, arent you going to upload docky?
<Laney> why upload it if it's a sync?
<ricotz> Laney, i mean sync ;)
<Laney> it will get processed by an archive admin as normal
<Laney> micahg: you did forget to subscribe ubuntu-archive though
<Laney> done
<ricotz> Laney, ok, that would have been my next question
<ricotz> Laney, thx
<geser> Laney: while you are here: do you have an idea what needs fixing here: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58533827/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-armel.haskell-binary-shared_0.8-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Laney> nps
<Laney> ooh
<Laney> I haven't looked at any haskell yet this cycle
<geser> I see that only in armel builds of haskell-* packages
<Laney> seems like a toolchainish thing doesn't it
<geser> i386 and amd64 doesn't seem to be affected (at least the recent archive rebuild doesn't list haskell-* packages)
<geser> I don't know how linking of ghc6 programs works, so I don't have an idea if building hlibrary.setup needs the -lpthread or ghc6 itself when linking libHSunix-2.4.0.0.a
<Laney> Me neither, let me check on my armel machine
<Laney> might have to raise to glasgow-haskell-users
<ari-tczew> how can I leave memo msg?
<RainCT> ari-tczew: /msg MemoServ HELP
<Laney> geser: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4523#comment:1
<Laney> i'll test against ghc6 with that patch and then upload if it works
<Laney> might take some time for ghc6/armel to build thoughâ¦
<geser> thanks
<Laney> urgh, bootstrapping problem
<Laney> ghc6 build-depends ghc6 and builds a script as part of configure, which fails due to this problem
<geser> :(
<cdbs> bdrung: there?
<ari-tczew> RainCT: why did you change from Ubuntu binary package from zeitgeist-fts-extension to zeitgeist-extension-fts ?
<ari-tczew> apt-rdepends is enough to find depends on X package
<ari-tczew> ?
<Rhonda> grep-available -FDepends $package -sPackage
<Rhonda> apt-cache showpkg also show reverse depends
<geser> depending on why you need it you might also need to check for rbuild-depends
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: grep-available: invalid option -- 'f'
<Rhonda> Where did I say -f?
<ari-tczew> geser: ATM I'm looking for depends on binary package.
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: I used: $ grep-available -FDepends $zeitgeist-fts-extension -szeitgeis-fts-extension
<Rhonda> erm â¦
<Rhonda> That's not what I said. :)
<geser> ari-tczew: for that case it's unlikely that this package is used as a build-dependency
<Rhonda> Only substiture $package with the package name.
<Rhonda> ari-tczew: So grep-available -FDepends zeitgeist-fts-extension -sPackage
<ari-tczew> geser: I wanrt to sync zeitgeist-extensions, but RainCT has changed binary package name in Debian and if I want to sync it, I have to resolve Build-Depends and Depends.
<ari-tczew> s/wanrt/want
<ari-tczew> thanks Rhonda, now I got output
<RainCT> ari-tczew: Hey. There's not much point in syncing, the geolocation extensions which the Debian package includes isn't really useful yet and other than that I think they're the same.
<ari-tczew> RainCT: I'm really convinced to reduce delta between Debian and Ubuntu. (again I must start open the same discussion)
<RainCT> Delta by itself isn't bad.
<ari-tczew> RainCT: we prefer to manage package through Debian
<ari-tczew> Rhonda: can I use this command to find b-d?
<Rhonda> Sure, though you would need grep-dctrl instead of grep-available and hand it the Sources file as argument.
<Rhonda> Like grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends,Build-Depends-Indep $package -sPackage /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Sources
 * Rhonda . o O ( and again, *only* substiture $package with your search term, nothing else in that commandline )
<geser> or use reverse-build-depends from u-d-t
<ari-tczew> geser: nice tool! do you have something similiar for looking for Depends field?
<geser> for that I usually use "apt-cache rdepends"
<ari-tczew> geser: thanks, it works!
<quidnunc> I'm trying to use checkinstall (yeah, I know I should make a real package) but it fails because of missing dependencies, glib2 among them. I can't find a package named glib2 in the repositories and I am confused about how checkinstall determined a debian package dependency.
<Bachstelze> quidnunc: it probably didn't, please pastebin the exact messge you get
<quidnunc> Bachstelze: The error is
<quidnunc> Bachstelze:  "dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of xmonad-log-applet:
<quidnunc>  xmonad-log-applet depends on glib2; however:
<quidnunc>   Package glib2 is not installed."
<quidnunc> Bachstelze: The full paste is http://pastebin.ca/2011207
<Bachstelze> quidnunc: your pckages has dependencies, maybe the upstream tarball has a debian/ folder?
<quidnunc> Bachstelze: no debian folder
<quidnunc> it does have a .spec file
<quidnunc> I have never seen that before
<quidnunc> google search tells me it is for rpms
<quidnunc> Is there a utility to build debs using .spec files?
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, glib2 is in main repos https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/2.27.4-0ubuntu1
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, glib2.0 package
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, you should look at installing libglib2.0-0
<Bachstelze> coolbhavi: the ackage asks for glib2, so it won't find libglib2.0-0
<Bachstelze> the problem is how the dependency got there in the first place
<Bachstelze> quidnunc: how about editing the .spec file, or deleting it altogether?
<coolbhavi> Bachstelze, hmm maybe i got the problem wrong
<quidnunc> deleting the spec solved my problem, thanks
<coolbhavi> quidnunc, great!
<ari-tczew> mr_pouit: Seems that you're a XFCE master. my admiration!
<micahg> Laney: thanks
<micahg> ricotz: syncs are now processed regularly by archive admins, should happen Monday or Tuesday
<ricotz> micahg, alright, i wasnt aware of this change
<udienz> anyone there?
<udienz> i looking at sponsor for lp:#63189
<hakermania> Hello all. In Revu (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/), some packages still need review and (as the site tells) have been uploaded almost 2 years now (the older was uploaded at 08 May 2009 11:39 ). So, I uploaded wallch (it is the last package now if you see). I would like to know when it will be reviewed. I am not in a hurry, but simply to know, because I find very strange all these packages than need review from 2009 and so.
<micahg> udienz: it's in NEW right now, but I think there are still some issues
<micahg> hakermania: yes, we don't have the people power to review large numbers of packages, that's why we usually suggest going through Debian
<udienz> micahg: what issue?
<hakermania> micahg: So, when it will be reviewed ?
<micahg> udienz: first, the version looks off, second there are some lintian warnings
<micahg> hakermania: idk
<hakermania> But there is a MAIN problem: in the changelog i have given "natty". When my package is reviewed natty will have been released! So my package will go back to needs work!!!!!!! ?
<hakermania> Have anyone though about this?
<micahg> hakermania: if that's the only issue it's easy enough to resolve, usually there are more issues than that with a package on REVU
<hakermania> How many people are working on revu?
<micahg> hakermania: a handful I think
<udienz> micahg: hm.. i see. so i want to fix "missing-debian-source-format " in lintian i must put "3.0 (native)" in debian/source/format?
<micahg> udienz: I requested that an archive admin delete the package that was uploaded already since there are some changes and it's still going through churn for Debian
<micahg> udienz: why is it native?
<micahg> udienz: native means Debian or Ubuntu is the upstream
<hakermania> Ok, so what can I do so my package to be in the natty distro? You told something about Debian i think
<udienz> micahg: hm.. thanks, so i must change version at debian/changelog to 1.2-0-1ubuntuX?
<udienz> and sorry for my bad english :D
<micahg> udienz: actually 0ubuntuX if it enters Ubuntu before Debian
<micahg> udienz: not a problem :)
<hakermania> Ok, so what can I do so my package to be in the natty distro? You told something about Debian i think
<micahg> udienz: if you don't have a rush need for it to be in Ubuntu immediately, you can finish up the work in Debian and it'll get sync'd, it just has to be in by Feb 24 2011
<micahg> hakermania: what type of application is it?
<hakermania> Accessory
<hakermania> (Utils)
<udienz> micahg: ok i'll finishing it at debian
<micahg> udienz: just keep that date in mind, you should make sure it's sync'd to Ubuntu by that date to insure it's in Natty
<udienz> micahg: okay
<hakermania> micahg: ?
<micahg> hakermania: maybe some of the other MOTUs have time, they'll read the backscroll and might take a look
<hakermania> micahg: no, you previously asked me what kind of program it is. Why?
<micahg> hakermania: if one of the Debian teams fits your package, you can try to get it in through Debian and get it reviewed by that team, http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/
<micahg> hakermania: oh, I was going to try to see if it fits with a Debian team, offhand I'm not sure which one, hence I gave you the link to look for yourself to see if there's a good fit
<hakermania> Ok, does DEBIAN has e.g. GNOME Desktop? Supports gconftool, imagemagick ?
<hakermania> and something else, the Advocated Package libassuan2 by user jr was uploaded at 03 Dec 2010 16:18 at is already fully accepted!!!! What???? That's not fair! There are package waiting 2 years now to be reviewed and libassuan2 was reviewed in 2 days time!
<hakermania> IS THIS FAIR?
<hakermania> sorry for bad english
<micahg> hakermania: the package was fine, and was adovcated and accepted
<maco> packages arent necessarily reviewed in order of first-uploaded...more like first-correct
<micahg> hakermania: the uploader happens to be an Ubuntu developer, so it just needed review from one person
<hakermania> How do I become ubuntu developer/
<hakermania> ?
<micahg> or rather more specially user is a core-dev
<hakermania> unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o unfair >:o
<micahg> hakermania: that won't help your case
<maco> you become an ubuntu dev by demonstrating over the course of several months that you know what you're doing and need minimal supervision
<hakermania> I thought that only in Greece there are those things :@
<maco> (several months to years, really)
<micahg> hakermania: most of the reviewers are volunteers, they work on what they want to work on
<hakermania> And why in debian it's easier?
<maco> debian requires only one person to say "its good"
<maco> ubuntu requires wo
<maco> *two
<maco> also, debian has 10x as many developrs who can do reviews
<micahg> hakermania: not necessarily easier, but they have more people power, we only have about 180 devs total
<maco> we're up to 180 now??
<Laney> and it's more easy to identify (groups of) people who might be inclined to review a particular package
<micahg> 153 capable of advocating for packages
<maco> ohok that sounds more reasonable
<hakermania> 153 people are unable to handle 1-2 packages per day?
<micahg> hakermania: who says they have time to review any?
<micahg> hakermania: they're also responsible for 15k+ packages already in Ubuntu
<hakermania> ....
<hakermania> I spent 3 months to build my app :(
<hakermania> and to know if I have something wrong I have to wait 2 years or so...
<hakermania> !
<hakermania> mad. :|
<maco> no...
<maco> the packages that are on there for 2 years are abandoned packages
<maco> it frequently occurs that soemone uploads something, they get one review telling them they did it wrong, and they dont bother fixing it
<maco> 2 years later, its still sitting there
<hakermania> yeah, because nobody wanted to review them. That's a kind of racism
<maco> A) its nothing to do with the uploader's race, so don't try that
<maco> B) they've generally been reviewed but *not* advocated -- the review said "wrong. start over"
<maco> if you upload something and are told you're doing it wrong, you should upload a fixed version
<maco> itll bump your package back up to the top of the queue, iirc
<hakermania> So why they aren't at Needs Work section?
<maco> if you never upload a fixed version, it will languish because reviewers are still waiting for you to get around to it
<maco> the whole unapproved thing *is* "needs work"
<hakermania> ok
<hakermania> Hmmm
<hakermania> ouao
<hakermania> my package has been reviewed
<hakermania> it is telling that there's not watch file
<hakermania> ouao
<hakermania> :)
<hakermania> I was wrong :)
<hakermania> So, if I retype dput revu *changes
<hakermania> it will say that wallch already exists
<hakermania> how do I force the upload?
<maco> rm the .upload file
<maco> but!
<maco> make sure you regenerate the .dsc and .changes and everything after adding the watch file
<hakermania> yes ok
<hakermania> ls -al doesn't show any .upload directory... :/
<hakermania> or file
<hakermania> or something..
<hakermania> found
<hakermania> -f, --force - force an upload of an already uploaded package.
<Laney> Could you use enter a bit less, please?
<udienz> micahg: thanks for last chat, i've successfully uploaded to mentors.d.o
<micahg> udienz: np, let me know if I can help further
<udienz> micahg: how to make lintian report at my PC
<udienz> same like at revu
<micahg> udienz: I'm not sure what REVU uses, but you can run lintian -iIEv --pedantic on a .changes or a .deb file
<micahg> or a .dsc
<udienz> it's work with *dsc, thanks
<lfaraone> udienz: you'll get the full report if you run it on the .changes created after a binary build.
<udienz> lfaraone: wonk fine too
<udienz> but i still got debian-watch-file-in-native-package
<udienz> but i still got error wthi "debian-watch-file-in-native-package"
<udienz> how can i solved this problem?
<lfaraone> udienz: is there a .orig.tar.gz or a similarly named file in the folder above where your debian/ folder is?
<udienz> yes, aspell-id_1.2-0.orig.tar.gz is in above debian directory
<lfaraone> udienz: what's your package's version number?
<micahg> udienz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch
<udienz> lfaraone: 1.2-0-4
<lfaraone> micahg: no, the issue is his package is building as native mistakenly.
<lfaraone> hm, odd.
<udienz> lfaraone: i try to build this package from Lucid and Lenny and got same error
<micahg> the -0 might be throwing it off, idk
<micahg> udienz: did you try setting 3.0 (quilt) in debian/source/format?
<lfaraone> micahg: per Debian policy, "The upstream_version may contain only alphanumerics[33] and the characters . + - : ~ (full stop, plus, hyphen, colon, tilde) and should start with a digit."
<micahg> lfaraone: in other words, should be fine :)
<lfaraone> right.
<udienz> micahg: if i put "3.0 (quilt: and re run debuild and checked wuth lintian. the error is gone
<lfaraone> exciting.
<udienz> * 3.0 (quilt)
<micahg> udienz: and you get a .debian.tar.gz in the same dir as teh .orig.tar.gz that's smallish?
<udienz> micahg: yes i got it: named aspell-id_1.2-0-4.debian.tar.gz
<micahg> udienz: and it only has the debian dir in it and not the source?
<udienz> micahg: yes only debian dir
<micahg> udienz: \o/
<udienz> it that right?
<micahg> udienz: yep :)
<udienz> micahg, lfaraone: thanks advice..
<quidnunc> I'm trying to build a package which is failing with "fatal error: dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory". I believe that file is provided in one of the following: "Setting up libglib2.0-dev (2.26.0-0ubuntu1) ... Setting up libdbus-glib-1-dev (0.88-2) .." which I added to build-depends. What am I doing wrong?
<hakermania> ?
<hakermania> it is maybe a linking error!
<quidnunc> hakermania: Are you speaking to me?
<hakermania> Yes!
<hakermania> are you using qt?
<tjcasey> hi guys, quick question, if I push changes via bzr push and then request merge, do I still need to attach the diff file to the bug report?
<quidnunc> hakermania: How can it be a linking error the error suggests that the compiler didn't find a header file
<Laney> you want libdbus-1-dev
<quidnunc> hakermania: What?
<Laney> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=dbus.h&mode=exactfilename&suite=natty&arch=any
<quidnunc> Laney: I have that as well
<quidnunc> Laney: I tried adding every single dbus dev package that I could find
<Laney> then you probably aren't setting CFLAGS right
<quidnunc> to build-depends
<quidnunc> Laney: That may be it: I'm not setting CFLAGS at all
<Laney> pastebin the build log
<Laney> please :)
<quidnunc> Where is that stored again?
<Laney> depends how you are building
<quidnunc> prevu
<Laney> don't know :(
<Laney> back soon
<quidnunc> it just wraps pbuilder
<quidnunc> I'll just paste stdout
<quidnunc> + stderr
<quidnunc> Laney: http://pastebin.ca/2011417
<Laney> quidnunc: Looks like the cflags are indeed missing. Try adding pkgconfig-depends: dbus-1 in the cabal file.
<quidnunc> Laney: That didn't seem to help but thanks for the tip
<hakermania> how should I name the General Public License 3 in order not to get from REVU: 'The GNU General Public License is mentioned in debian/copyright but     there seems to be no copy of it included in the source tarball, which     is a requirement for it. (Note: The file may be there but have an     uncommon name; please double-check before trusting this warning). '  I have tried GPL3 but it doesn't work
<dapal> use COPYING for the file, it's one of the common names
<dapal> if you already embed it, with another name, say so :)
<hakermania> dapal: Thank you. When it says in the source tarball it means inside the folder with the source, doesn't it?
<dapal> yes
<geser> lucas: how often is the information about new Ubuntu uploads for http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi updated? I'm wondering why fbb is not in outdated already when I uploaded a fixed package to Ubuntu on Friday (the page lists no outdated packages at all yet).
<bcurtiswx> how do i find which package libnotify belongs to ?
<micahg> bcurtiswx: apt-file search?
<maco> dpkg -S filename
<maco> (if its installed)
<bcurtiswx> micahg, maco thx
<geser> bcurtiswx: binary package to source package? or file to binary package?
<bcurtiswx> geser, first
<micahg> bcurtiswx: oh, hmm, apt-cache show PKG | grep ^Source
<maco> or apt-cache showsrc PKG | head -n1
<geser> if you have a source repository configured (deb-src): "apt-cache madison" and look for the source line
<micahg> maco: Source isn't the first line
<maco> its not?
<micahg> not for me at least
<maco> yes it is
<maco> for showsrc the first line is Package:  and shows the source package name
<micahg> maybe it depends on the package :)
<maco> second line is Binary:  and shows the binary package name
<maco> its the difference between show and showsrc
<micahg> oh, sorry, I didn't notice you said showsrc :)
<bcurtiswx> back, had connectivity issues
<micahg> maco: you are correct :)
<geser> micahg: your line doesn't work as not every package has a Source entry (only those where the binary name != source name)
<micahg> geser: you are also correct
<geser> bcurtiswx: did you see out replies?
<bcurtiswx> not after i said "geser, first"
<bcurtiswx> until micahg said "oh sorry, i ddin't notice..."
<micahg> bcurtiswx: it should all be in the logs now
<geser> "apt-cache showsrc PKG | head -n1" or "apt-cache madison PKG" (for both you need a source repository (deb-src) entry)
<bcurtiswx> OK, thx all
<bcurtiswx> i did a bzr merge-upstream which gave a conflict.  i see a BASE|OTHER|THIS file how do I "resolve" this conflict ?
<RAOF> Work out what the resolution should be, save it, then run âbzr resolveâ
<RAOF> The BASE|OTHER|THIS files are just a part of the standard conflict resolution info; one is the BASE file, one is the BASE file + the changes made in THIS tree, one is the BASE file + the changes made in the OTHER tree.
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, the next step to solving would be identifying the issue.  the .BASE .OTHER .THIS file hold this information ?
<RAOF> Mostly you can ignore the .BASE/.OTHER/.THIS files, because bzr will put conflict markers in the file.  Looking like <<<<HEAD ...stuff from your tree... ==== ...stuff from other tree...>>>>other
<bcurtiswx> OK, looking
<bcurtiswx> found that section, lemme pastebin
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540110/ how do I tell it which to keep ? i would assume the stuff after the ==== is more specific and is what should be kept
<RAOF> Working out what to keep requires understanding what was changed, both in the ubuntu branch and in the upstream branch.
<RAOF> In this case, the second branch (after the ====) looks like the right one.
<bcurtiswx> yup, my thoughts too
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, do i just delete all but what I'm keeping for those lines ?
<RAOF> You leave the file in the state it should end up in; so you'd delete from <<<HEAD to ====, then the >>>MERGE SOURCE
<bcurtiswx> ROAF, OK Thx
<bcurtiswx> RAOF, then bzr resolve ?
<RAOF> Yup.  That will pick up that you've fixed the conflict, and will mark it as resolved.
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i quilt push -f with a refresh on all patches, and it works.. but when i bzr bd.. it fails..
<geser> error message?
<bcurtiswx> yup, lemme pastebiun
<bcurtiswx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/540113/
<bcurtiswx> geser, ^^
<geser> and "push"ing each patch after a "quilt pop -a" works?
<bcurtiswx> geser, http://paste.ubuntu.com/540114/
<geser> does it also work when you leave out the -f?
<bcurtiswx> geser, yes. saem result
<bcurtiswx> same*
<geser> hmm
<geser> bcurtiswx: just curious: you seem to update libnotify on your own, a) why not take libnotify 0.7.0-3 from Debian experimental and apply the Ubuntu delta if still needed and b) what's the difference to libnotify4 0.7.0+git20101118-0ubuntu2?
<geser> from the libnotify4 changelog from Nov 11: "Rename source package and -dev binary to be versioned, so that we can install both in parallel for a while."
<bcurtiswx> geser, i'm trying to package empathy 2.91.3 and it has a build-dep on that libnotify.. i assume the easy way would be updating the empathy build-dep to libnotify4 instead of the current one
<bcurtiswx> i guess I can do that
<bcurtiswx> didn't see libnotify4 :) thx
<geser> bcurtiswx: yes, looks like you should build-depend on libnotify4-dev
<geser> sorry that I couldn't help you with your original problem
<bcurtiswx> geser, you've been a great help :) thx
<bcurtiswx> geser, if im moving things to GTK+3 then libglib2.0-dev and libgtk2.0-dev get bumped to libglib3.0-dev and libgtk3.0-dev ?
<geser> I guess so, but apt-cache shows me only a libgtk3.0-dev package but no libglib3.0-dev (or similar). Better ask the folks in #ubuntu-desktop.
<bcurtiswx> geser,  thanks.  i guess 2.0 is still used. (missed an entry in their NEWS file)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-28
 * gilbert is trying unity on 11.10, and isn't going completely mad
<gilbert> progress, ooh
<gilbert> but why oh why oh why can't i modify the panel??? come on...
<gilbert> wrong chan :( oops
<gilbert> disregard
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> anyone have the URL handy that searches UDD for uploads by an individual?
<Guest51058> ooh, I like this nick!
<Laney> boring :(
<micahg> Laney: hi, do you have that link handy where I can look up my uploads in UDD?
<Laney> ooh, err, ooh
<Laney> the sponsoring thing? tumbleweed did that
<micahg> yeah, ok, I wasn't sure who did that, let me see if I can find it now then
<Laney> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<Laney> micahg: that?
<micahg> yes :), thanks
<Laney> thank god for browser history
<micahg> yeah, was lacking in mine and I thought I bookmarked it
 * micahg needs to find who to hassle for endorsement
<micahg> *endorsements
<micahg> s/hassle/ask nicely/ :D
<Laney> heh
<micahg> tumbleweed: http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi seems to not show sponsors anymore
<broder> micahg: it looks like the sponsors import is broken
<broder> the ubuntu_upload_history table seems to just have "N/A" for signed_by_name
<broder> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/752368/
<Laney> BLAST!
<Laney> erm
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86055975/facter_1.6.2-1ubuntu1_source.changes
<Laney> no signed-by?
<tumbleweed> oh, right, sanity checking? who does that? :)
<Laney> epic fail
<Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2011-November/003573.html
<Laney> it is in the first part but not the changesfile
<tumbleweed> well it's in the gpg signature in the changesfile
<Laney> which you don't have in changesFileUrl()
<Laney> woe is us
<tumbleweed> oh, that's problematic
<tumbleweed> must be in the spph, though
<Laney> the worst part is
<Laney> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/laney/ubuntu-upload-history.git;a=blob;f=munge_ddc.py;h=11b3d28818110d84f23859de0b3e64fae80fcfed;hb=HEAD#l130
<tumbleweed> the "some reason" is quite logical...
<Laney> :P
<Laney> i meant that i knew about it
<Laney> and then promptly forgot said knowledge
<tumbleweed> right, so did I :/
<Laney> reimport time!
<tumbleweed> you think I can do it in one go?
<Laney> launchpad downtime might get you
<tumbleweed> yeah :/
<tumbleweed> I'll do per-release again
<Laney> we should sanity check the dates
<Laney> there was only ~10 uploads with borked ones so it's not too bad to ignore them
<tumbleweed> can we not trust date_created?
<Laney> i guess fall back to that
<tumbleweed> or date_published even
<tumbleweed> hard to sanity check, though
<Laney> parsedate_tz doesn't :(
<tumbleweed> if you want proper TZ handling in python you want dateutil and/or pytz
<Laney> also doesn't validate it
<Laney> i think the errors come from postgres itself
<tumbleweed> oh, I didn't see the errors you were getting
<Laney> they were when importing
<tumbleweed> yes, what sort of problems?
<Laney> #ubuntu-motu.log-20111124:23/11 00:26:02 <Laney> psycopg2.DataError: time zone displacement out of range: "Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:43:00 +2000"
<Laney> like that
<tumbleweed> oh, /me remembers
<tumbleweed> Laney: are you doing anything about ubuntu-upload-history (I'm about to start looking at it)
<Laney> not atm, feel free
<tumbleweed> Laney: how about this: If abs(Changes Date - Date Created) > 24 hours, use Date Created ?
<Laney> are there legitimate situations when that might be true?
<tumbleweed> stuck in a queue?
<Laney> the +2000 case might not even be caught by that
<tumbleweed> embargoed uploads?
<tumbleweed> that's catchable by hand
<Laney> you could just try to parse it
<Laney> some of them were e.g. typoed days and months
<Laney> which should hopefully fail to parse
<tumbleweed> but there were also things that were clearly wrong
<Laney> and then check the tz is within a valid range
<tumbleweed> i.e. out by months
<Laney> then making your check much longer (say 2 weeks) should be a good compromise
<tumbleweed> ok, I like that
<Laney> I bet if the parser is lazy that it would accept invalid days though
<Laney> as those are technically redundant
<tumbleweed> render it back to a string and compare?
<Laney> sounds good
<tumbleweed> hrm, we don't have dateutil on syklone
 * tumbleweed tries to work out if we need it
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, dateutil does sanity-check the TZ, but allows a greater range
<tumbleweed> -1439 to 1439
<tumbleweed> (minutes)
<Laney> another alternative is to let the udd importer skip invalid records
<tumbleweed> it's fine, I can easily enforce a tighter restriction here
<tumbleweed> Laney: ok, running a smallish import of karmic from the beginning of 2009-10 (that'll also cover some odd e-mail addresses) http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/out/
<Laney> cool
<Laney> what did you do about the emails?
<tumbleweed> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/stefanor/ubuntu-upload-history.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab8f776c22ac367c28caa6fd2405d22d83557146
<Laney> WARNING:lp-udd:Date does not render back to itself: Mon,  12 Oct 2009 15:47:58 +0100 != Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:47:58 +0100. Going with date_created
<Laney> can we handle that?
<tumbleweed> I'm putting Signed-By on every record, seem sensible?
<tumbleweed> yes, we could special-case that
<Laney> I guess signed_by <> 'N/A' was never good enough on its own, so I guess so
<tumbleweed> re-importing with double spaces special-cased
<l3on> cjwatson, hey... are you working on flphoto?
<cjwatson> lenios_: yes
<cjwatson> er
<cjwatson> l3on: yes
<l3on> ah ok :) I see it fails :P
<l3on> ok, don't worry.... let's see something else... :)
<cjwatson> yes, I know, I'm working through the failures
<l3on> flphoto for example...
<l3on> ops sorry -.-
<cjwatson> the failures in flphoto I mean
<cjwatson> just a bit tedious
<l3on> can I take git-annex  ?
<cjwatson> it's possible git-annex might succeed if retried
<cjwatson> run it through pbuilder or something to chekc?
<cjwatson> *check
<cjwatson> it might have got caught up in the perl and imagemagick transitions
<l3on> ok... let's see :)
<Laney> still fails
<Laney> sid version does too
<cjwatson> it looks like a bug in whatever library that is it's using though?
<Laney> i would say so
<cjwatson> flphoto fix uploaded
<l3on> Yep.. I'm going to test "perl -e 'use Image::Magick'" in precise
<l3on> because in oneiric builds fine
<cjwatson> Given all the transitions, problems in this area aren't especially surprising
<Laney> that file hasn't been linked properly
<l3on> hey men... I found the problem about myodbc ...
<l3on> in precise we have libmysqlclient-dev > 5.1
<l3on> and myodbc seems to build only with libmysqlclient-dev <= 5.1
<l3on> in other words, in precise control should set "libmysqlclient16-dev" instead of "libmysqlclient-dev"
<l3on> what the best way to do that?
<l3on> and... debian sees libmysqlclient-dev > 5.1 in experimental... we have to file bug in debian or just merge in ubuntu for now ?
<micahg> l3on: no, libmysqlclient16-dev is going away, we need it to build with libmysqlclient-dev (or 5.5)
<l3on> micahg, ok... I'm going to figure out ...
<micahg> libmysqliclient-dev should be libmysqlclient18-dev ATM
<micahg> l3on: thanks :)
<l3on> yes, you're right
<l3on> hey micahg ... why don't we use myodbc 5.1.9 ?
<l3on> I'm looking at code and bug has fixed there...
<micahg> l3on: Debian hasn't updated yet?  you can certainly propose a merge/debdiff with that update, might want to check with Spamaps in #ubuntu-devel first so as not to duplicate work
<l3on> upstream changelog says http://paste.ubuntu.com/752778/
<l3on> ok.. I'm going..
<l3on> what diff between this channel and ubuntu-devel ?!
<l3on> should I join both to get involved in ubuntu development cycle ?!
<micahg> l3on: well, this channel is more geared towards universe/multiverse packages and mentoring, whereas ubuntu-devel is focused on main/restricted, patch piloting, and other development related discussions (such as transitions)
<l3on> mmm... in precise:
<l3on> perl -e 'use Image::Magick'
<l3on> perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/auto/Image/Magick/Magick.so: undefined symbol: MagickCoreGenesis
<broder> oh hey - the backports pocket does enforce some form of archive upload permissions! "tomcat6_6.0.18-0ubuntu3.3~hardy1_source.changes rejected [...] Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main'."
<micahg> :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: finished running
<l3on> hey guys... could you explain me something ? :)
<l3on> I would understand... how to fix -as-needed ..
<tumbleweed> l3on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/ToolchainTransition
<l3on> what I get is: put libs "-laaabbb" alway after "-o output" ...
<l3on> tumbleweed, I'm reading that :)
<tumbleweed> no. put -laaabbb after foo.o
<l3on> but.. what is not clear... what to do with '-L' ?
<l3on> yeah yeah tumbleweed, I wrote it wrong... :)
<tumbleweed> -L probably doesn't matter here
<l3on> ok, let's try :)
<tumbleweed> how exactly you go about fixing the build failure will depend on the package
<tumbleweed> most common cause is people misusing LDFLAGS
<l3on> tumbleweed, problem here is not a fail in building, but something wrong at runtime
<l3on> bug 897380
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 897380 in imagemagick (Ubuntu) "PerlMagick fails at runtime in precise " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897380
<tumbleweed> right, that's common for plugins, where we expect some symbols to not be resolved in the shared library
<tumbleweed> if only more packages had test suites...
<tumbleweed> Laney: just as well I ran that test, the weird e-mail addreses were in the changes files not lp. Duh!
<Laney> l3on: I informed mterry about that, don't know if he was looking at it but you might want to check
<Laney> tumbleweed: yeah, that's where all of the dubious data is
 * tumbleweed ran another test, but it got killed by ubuntuwire admins trying to add more disk space :)
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-29
 * ajmitch looks for someone to blame
 * Laney wonders when ajmitch is going to sort out the udd mirror :P
<ajmitch> Laney: that's what I was trying to do this morning, 3GB wasn't enough for postgres
<Laney> :(
<ashams> Hey guys, I'm new and want to get the vlc source code for lucid through bzr, but I can see 4 branches on lp for it, which one should I pull?https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/vlc
<ashams> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/vlc
<RAOF> ashams: bzr branch ubuntu:lucid/vlc should get what's in the lucid archive, IIRC.
<ashams> RAOF, I tested it but it doesn't give me anything
<ashams> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/ashams/ubuntu:lucid/vlc/".
<ashams> oops
<ashams> my bad
<StevenK> lp:ubuntu/lucid/vlc
<ashams> StevenK, it worked , thanks
<ashams> Thanks RAOF
<broder> err, that would be the one that was released with lucid
<broder> there have been SRUs and security updates since then
<broder> so you'd actually want lp:ubuntu/lucid-updates/vlc
<ashams> broder, I see
<ashams> ok, I'll get it instead
<ashams> thanks
<ockham_> hi, i've just uploaded unity-lens-bliss to REVU. anyone feel like reviewing it?
<ockham_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss
<broder> tumbleweed: do you think requestbackport is stable enough that we could backport it to oneiric?
<ajmitch> broder: I've imported the udd data now on qa.uw.org thanks to wgrant sorting out some more diskspace
<tumbleweed> \o/
 * ajmitch still has to sort out what postgres permissions go where, but at least the data's in & there's ~20GB of free space in the VM if you want to run some stuff
<tumbleweed> broder: after the next udt upload
<dholbach> good morning
<l3on> broder, hi! :)
<l3on> I see your comment here: bug 896902
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896902 in gtk-led-askpass (Ubuntu) "Please merge gtk-led-askpass 0.11-1 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896902
<l3on> sould I patch source to handle return value???
<l3on> *should
<tumbleweed> ...and actually do something sane with it (I've seen far too many patches for that kind of issue that catch the return value and proceed to do nothing)
<tumbleweed> yes, patches like that are useful, and should be submitted upstream too
<l3on> well.. tumbleweed where's upstream? :D
<tumbleweed> it's a program handling passwords, so it would be nice if it was doing a good job
<l3on> there's nothing in debian/control handling homepage
<tumbleweed> https://launchpad.net/gtk-led-askpass by the look of it
<tumbleweed> err, no, no code there
<tumbleweed> but the copyright file indicates that the DD who packaged it in Debain, wrote it
<tumbleweed> ah, it started out as a native package
<tumbleweed> Laney: imported that test set again
<tumbleweed> I'm giving it a once-over
<tumbleweed> Laney: we still have N/A signed-bys. I'm guessing they are syncs
<Laney> likely
<tumbleweed> I can add signed-by, but I don't know how useful that'll be
<Laney> blank would be a good way of detecting autosyncs
<tumbleweed> autosyncs are easy to detect from changed_by_email=katie
<capeta> I'm trying to create my own .deb package of nginx using checkinstall but it don't work, I'm using the sources of 'apt-get source nginx' and downloading the two new modules manually. It configure, using the ./configure with the same parameters of the official package plus new modules, compile (make) but the .deb generated (by the checkinstall) don't work. Anyone knows what I'm doing wrong?
<tumbleweed> capeta: we don't build debs with checkinstall
<Laney> changed_by_name = "Ubuntu Archive Auto-sync"
<capeta> and where my .deb package came from?
<tumbleweed> Laney: what I'm asking is, for consistency, should I add: if not signer: signer=changedby
<Laney> what's the invariant?
<Laney> signer should be the person who did the upload
<tumbleweed> agreed
<tumbleweed> and should it be katie for autosyncs? I'm happy with N/A there, but if we want N/A we have to special-case it
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> just though
<Laney> t
<Laney> we should make sure that all the fields come out right when sync sponsoring is worked out
<Laney> i.e. clarify it in the bug
<Laney> let's go for having signed_by in all cases
<tumbleweed> sure, although that's for the mailing list
 * tumbleweed has a separate bug for -changes mail being a bit crazy for syncs
<Laney> for syncs, we have creator = requestor, changed = original uploader in Debian
<Laney> we should make sure that they set signed = sponsor when this bug is fixed
<tumbleweed> yup
<Laney> actually that's not right, weird
<tumbleweed> hrm?
<tumbleweed> I've just pushed my proposed change. Will run again...
<Laney> package_creator, package_maintainer = Debian /Maintainer/ (i.e. pkg-haskell-maintainers in this case)
<tumbleweed> oh, great, looks like some dapper-era syncs had the demian uploader as Changed-By
<tumbleweed> so, one should detect autosyncs by looking for signed_by = katie
<Laney> newer ones are archive@ubuntu.com afaik
<tumbleweed> we need a 20 page guide on using this data without killing yourself
<Laney> you need to look for changed_by_name
<Laney> err, signed_by_name
<tumbleweed> yes :)
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/147425/ ?
<tumbleweed> Laney: ok
<tumbleweed> s/dapper-era//
<Laney> history is fun
<tumbleweed> turns out it's present, too
<tumbleweed> I'm wondering if we should make our Changed-By only refer to the ubuntu developer whe requested the sync, but I don't know if we have the data for that
<Laney> for which syncs?
<tumbleweed> well, ideally it'd be all or nothing
<Laney> I am under the impression that most manual syncs have that
<tumbleweed> native syncs definitly have enough information
<Laney> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75056838/log4net_1.2.10%2Bdfsg-5_source.changes
<Laney> that's an old manual sync
<Laney> looks ok
<Laney> we should bug elmo for the ancient data too :-)
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, that does look right
<tumbleweed> but I grepped for Changed-By:.*alioth and found quite a bit
<ockham_> hi, i've uploaded unity-lens-bliss to REVU. anyone feel like reviewing it?
<ockham_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss
<wzssyqa> any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tclcl/+bug/897158?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 897158 in tclcl (Ubuntu) "Please sync tclcl (1.20-4) from Debian Sid (main) to Ubuntu (universe)" [Wishlist,New]
<tumbleweed> wzssyqa: re: They seem being same. I have no idea why this happens
<geser> wzssyqa: the "problem" is that those symbols are missing (in the test build; therefore the prepending #MISSING: lines you see in the diff)
<tumbleweed> what geser said
<geser> wzssyqa: compare your test-build log with the build from Debian and check if you see any differences (e.g. from configure or similar)
 * tumbleweed is guessing compiler differences here
<wzssyqa> geser: all of these lines are in my symbol file
<tumbleweed> oh, maybe not
<wzssyqa> tumbleweed: geser will it happen if buildflags are not the same ?
<tumbleweed> very likely
<tumbleweed> basically, the problem here is that the shared library doesn' thave symbols that are expected (and, I haven't checkde a full build log, so I don't know if it has unexpected symbols)
<wzssyqa> tumbleweed: y, after change buildflags, it fails on Sid now
<tumbleweed> wzssyqa: what was the difference?
<wzssyqa> tumbleweed: dpkg-buildflags vs nothing
<tumbleweed> wzssyqa: interestingly, it's the -O2
<tumbleweed> I suggest you file a bug in Debian, requesting that the maintainer use dpkg-buildflags :)
<wzssyqa> tumbleweed: if compat is 7, then without -O2, if compat is 8 or 9, it will use -O2
<tumbleweed> wzssyqa: yes, that's because dh exports buildflags at compat level 9 (at 8, really?)
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm, still seem to have some Signed-By: N/As
<tumbleweed> (mostly kernel uploads)
<Laney> probably some weird ppa business
<Laney> if it's not many i wouldn't worry
 * tumbleweed tries to figure out why
<Laney> I thought you added if not signedby: signedby = changedby
<tumbleweed> it looks like a bug in person_to_name_email because sconklin doesn't have a public e-mail address
 * tumbleweed contemplates caching all the e-mail addresses we've read from changes files. But that's evil :P
<Laney> line 58 doesn't work?
<tumbleweed> Laney: it returns N/A rather than Name <N/A>
<Laney> oh, because you get ValueError
<awsoonn> Hi all, I'm trying my luck at debugging a kernel oops that has been runing my day for about a week now....
<awsoonn> where is some good documentation to start chewing on? bug 897883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 897883 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel Oops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897883
<awsoonn> i am assuming I will need to build my own kernel with debugging symbols in order to make any headway? tips and guidance greatly appreacated.
<Laney> awsoonn: I don't know if anyone in here knows much about the kernel; #ubuntu-kernel might be a better place to look
<awsoonn> Laney: wonderful sugestion, onward down teh rabbit hole I go~
<Laney> sorry
<tumbleweed> Laney: were there other situations that gave ValueError? (I mean I'm not going to get that from display_name, right?)
<Laney> don't think so
<tumbleweed> hrm, why are we catching both HTTPError and ValueError
<tumbleweed> they both date back to the beginning
<Laney> possibly got 403
<Laney> from katie?
<Laney> cogs... turning...
<Laney> whack a debug in there and see
<tumbleweed> yup
<tumbleweed> katie
<tumbleweed> gives a410
<tumbleweed> seeing as katie is special-cased in LP, I'm tempted to do that here
<Laney> seems needlessly ungeneral
<Laney> i'd just log it
<Laney> back soon (maybe)
<l3on> DktrKranz, ma come si avvia debomatic ?
<l3on> mi riferisco al demone...
<DktrKranz> l3on: -ECHAN ;)
<l3on> :)
<broder> hmm...debian bug #633273 would be an NMU candidate because it's a release goal, wouldn't it? :)
<ubottu> Debian bug 633273 in python-visual "python-visual: Getting rid of unneeded *.la / emptying dependency_libs" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/633273
<broder> oh, also because the maintainer is listed on LowThresholdNMUs :)
<tumbleweed> broder: sounds good to me, but I'm off to bed
<tumbleweed> release goals aren't release critical
<tumbleweed> but this is blocking somebody else, pretty save, and lowthreshold...
<tumbleweed> *safe
<broder> i thought release goal -> bug was Important; bug was Important -> it's NMU'able
<tumbleweed> don' think there's a hard line on what's NMU'able
<broder> fair enough
<Laney> the severity changes the notice one is supposed to give
<Laney> but you can always NMU if you make enough noise before uploading
<micahg> for reference: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/pkgs.html#nmu
#ubuntu-motu 2011-11-30
<Laney> argh
<Laney> just realised that backports build depends bug is going to prevent me from doing agda backports
<Laney> how frustrating
<broder> as i seem to recall, you were planning to learn more about how soyuz works :)
<Laney> it's alright, it got escalated ^o)
<broder> yes, but there are 300 critical bugs
<ajmitch> that reminds me, I was going to ask someone clueful about backports whether arb packages could depend on backported packages
<micahg> ajmitch: in theory with backports on by default, there shouldn't be a reason not to
<ajmitch> micahg: that's what I'd thought
<micahg> ajmitch: but you'll want to make that clear in whatever describes extras
<broder> ajmitch: i assume that's a technical question and not a policy one, right? as long as the dependencies are versioned to pull in the backports, i think it would work
<ajmitch> broder: that's what I was checking
<broder> uh....actually
<micahg> ajmitch: I think it's worthwhile to pass it by the TB though just to be sure
<broder> wait, no that will hit the backports-can't-depend-on-backports bug
<ajmitch> policy can be changed, I was checking whether it's technically possible
<broder> (because lp's sbuild has a dumb build-dep resolver)
<ajmitch> yay for lp
<broder> bug #888665, in case you haven't seen it before
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<micahg> broder: well, once that's fixed it would work :)
<micahg> also, if it's a run time, not build time, it would work now
<broder> yeah, that's true
<ajmitch> ok, I hadn't seen that bug, it probably answers a few of my questions about it :)
<ajmitch> micahg: the use case is arb apps depending on libraries that weren't shipped in a stable version
<micahg> also, PPAs might behave differently than the backports pocket
<ajmitch> because bundling them is evil & wrong
<micahg> ajmitch: we usually don't backport libraries :)
<broder> micahg: eh, that's not true
<broder> especially new libraries
<micahg> broder: depends on the # of rdepeds
<ajmitch> micahg: usually not, but I'm thinking more of new libraries, rather than new versions of existing libraries
<micahg> *rdeps
<micahg> ajmitch: ah, that's a fine use case then
<ajmitch> though I can imagine the sheer fun & excitement of trying to backport a new version of Qt
<broder> ajmitch: short version of the bug: sbuild parses the build-deps without versions, passes just the package names to apt-get, cries when apt pulls from the default pocket instead of the lower-pinned one
 * micahg is going to have enough fun backporting webkit 1.6 to lucid-oneiric
<ajmitch> broder: right, because apt needs the version information to choose which package is appropriate
<ajmitch> at least launchpad-buildd is split out as a separate project now
<broder> ajmitch: right. newer versions of sbuild create a dummy metapackage (with the actual depends list) and tell apt to install that instead
<ajmitch> so http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-launchpad-branches/launchpad-buildd/trunk/files has its own copy of sbuild
 * broder squints
<broder> that looks like either a re-implementation or a *very* old version of sbuild
<ajmitch> probably the latter
<broder> as in, pre-dates the first time i looked at the sbuild source
<broder> but i guess 2004-era fork would fulfil that requirement
<ajmitch> this is why we can't have nice things...
 * ajmitch wonders just how much they've diverged over time
<broder> i mean, the organization of current sbuild is totally different from that
<ajmitch> yep
<broder> most of the code lives in the Sbuild perl module
<ajmitch> it could make trying to fix that sbuild a bit of a challenge
<ajmitch> broder: reading that bug, I see that wgrant has made some progress on getting sbuild to a more sane state
<ajmitch> so maybe it's not quite as bad as I thought :)
<wgrant> ajmitch, broder: LP sbuild is a fork of Ubuntu's buildd sbuild from 2004, which is itself a fork of DSA sbuild from early 2004.
<wgrant> Which is a fork of Debian sbuild from earlier than that.
<broder> ...oh. oh, dear
<wgrant> The main thing keeping us on the fork is ddebs.
<wgrant> I have branches to port LP to almost-stock Ubuntu sbuild from ~a year ago.
<wgrant> I may just bite the bullet and reimplement the ddeb hack.
<ajmitch> you would get much love if you get that in & make backports easier to deal with
<wgrant> Yeah
<wgrant> Might even take a stab at that today.
<ajmitch> \o/
<wgrant> Because it's been 7.5 years since we merged upstream :)
<broder> one thing that may cause deployment headaches: current sbuild (which i suppose is probably newer than what lp-buildd would be using) requires manually generating a gpg keypair in advance to sign the temporary apt repo it sets up with the dummy build-deps package
<broder> (see sbuild-update(1) and sbuild-update --keygen)
<wgrant> O_o
<ajmitch> can apt not be made to use unauthenticated sources at that point?
<broder> i was just thinking about that
<broder> there may be an option to not sign the tmp repo and have apt not chcek signatures
<broder> which would probably be ok since this runs in DC
<wgrant> We already disable signature verification most of the time, but I don't really like that much.
<broder> there is an $apt_allow_unauthenticated sbuild.conf variable
<broder> ...but i can't find a way to disable the signing
<ajmitch> sbuild-update manpage seems to say that the keys must be there, but they could be copied in or just live in the chroot
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> can partner repos be integrated with Ubuntu local deb mirror ?
<kaushal> checking in again for the query ?
<kaushal> can someone please comment ?
<broder> !patience | kaushal
<ubottu> kaushal: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<broder> but i think you might have better luck in either #ubuntu-mirror or #ubuntu-mirrors - i forget which
<kaushal> broder: i did that already
<wgrant> broder: Sadly precise's sbuild needs libdpkg-perl, which is new in maverick. And new dpkgs don't obviously backport to hardy, which is what most of the buildds run :/
<broder> isn't libdpkg-perl more or less standalone from dpkg core?
<micahg> wgrant: oneiric's seems good though
<micahg> oh, now it doesn't
<micahg> *no
<wgrant> micahg: It hasn't changed since oneiric.
<wgrant> The last one I tried was Lucid's, which seems to work OK.
<wgrant> (we're stuck on hardy for a couple of reasons: dropped archs like hppa, ia64, and sparc; and the fact that some packages in old series don't like building on overly recent kernels.
<micahg> wgrant: maverick's sbuild is the last without libdpkg-perl
<micahg> but that needs a newer schroot
<micahg> eh, so does the version in lucid
<wgrant> Backporting schroot is doable. Brand new dpkgs aren't.
 * ajmitch hands wgrant some more chewing gum to hold LP together
<wgrant> Hey, it's not part of LP any more. It's a separate project :)
 * wgrant disclaims all responsibility.
<ajmitch> as of about a week ago, you mean :P
<wgrant> Shh
<broder> any DD's around and interested in NMU'ing python-virtual for me? (maintainer is low-threshold, and this is a prereq for potentially multiarch-ifying the gtkmm stack)
<broder> err, python-visual
<StevenK> Actually doing the NMU, or sponsoring a NMU?
<broder> sponsoring :)
<ajmitch> fixing http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633273 ?
<ubottu> Debian bug 633273 in python-visual "python-visual: Getting rid of unneeded *.la / emptying dependency_libs" [Normal,Open]
<broder> yep
<broder> debdiff is attached to the bug
<ajmitch> package hasn't had a maintainer upload for >2 years now
<broder> i'm sure the maintainer ran away screaming from the tangle of cdbs in that package
 * ajmitch should let StevenK deal with it then :)
<StevenK> Sure, let me convert it to yada. Can't be much worse
<broder> i was going to try and convert it to dh_python2, but i honestly have no idea how to do that with the way that package is set up
<ajmitch> StevenK: you're in ~ubuntu-archive, why is yada still in the archive?
<StevenK> Reverse deps
<ajmitch> burn them
<ajmitch> there aren't many of them left, but they don't die off quickly enough
<ScottK> broder: Convert it to debhelper at the same time.
<broder> ScottK: seems like a *slight* subversion of the NMU rules :-P
<broder> and no, i'm *not* interested in taking over the package, before anybody says it
<ScottK> Ah, I thought it was orphaned.
<ajmitch> last time I looked at that package, I ended up patching boost
<ScottK> Heh.
<ajmitch> yay, oneiric fails to suspend *again*
<micahg> StevenK: all 3 in Debian haven't been touched in Debian for quite a while, there are 2 we can drop in Ubuntu since Debian dropped them
<StevenK> There's only 3 revdeps?
<micahg> 5 total
<StevenK> There was like 20 last I looked
 * ScottK watches StevenK salivate.
<micahg> http://paste.ubuntu.com/754482/
<StevenK> ssh -v cocoplum
<StevenK> Oops
<broder> ssh -v cocoplum remove-everything.py
<StevenK> I still have the scars from libapache2-mod-auth-pam
<ScottK> It's got an RC bug against it that (I gather) requires it to be migrated away from yada to fix.
<ScottK> broder: Do that one.
<broder> apache, pam, and yada in the same package? that triggers my "run away screaming" response
<ScottK> Right, but your job is removing the yada, so it should be easy.
<ScottK> Do it now while you're still young and invincible.
<ScottK> Once you're old like StevenK you won't dare.
 * StevenK beats ScottK with his walking frame.
 * ScottK parries with his cane.
<StevenK> Like you're that limber.
<ajmitch> great, the elderly are fighting again
<ScottK> I have an 8 year old child.  I need to be able to move fast.
 * micahg adds yada to his list of things to kill
<awsoonn> quicky, What package contains the bluetooth app-indicator?
<ajmitch> gnome-bluetooth afaik
<awsoonn> ajmitch: I've installed it but don't see it in my indicator area, I'll give my sys another rebooth for good measure..
<awsoonn> thanks!
<broder> morbid curiosity is a $%^%$#, but it doesn't actually look like this package is...impossible to convert to modern packaging
<broder> i think the most annoying part is the lack of a functional install target
<broder> ok, i'm upgrading the install target for libapache2-mod-auth-pam to "Tricky"
<broder> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/754525/
<broder> it seems to generate .debs with *virtually* identical contents (mod-auth-sys-group used to ship a README.Debian.libapache2-mod-auth-sys-group; it now just ships a README.Debian)
<broder> but i haven't double-checked extensively
<StevenK> broder: Drop yada from the Build-Depends?
<broder> oh, hah
<broder> oh, actually one sec...that may not be the latest debdiff
<broder> there, that's more like it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/754530/
<broder> oh, #$%
<broder> for once i actually *did* do dput ubuntu instead of dput ppa:
<broder> fortunately it was a package in main
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> morning dholbach
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<tumbleweed> broder: so we must remember not to give you core-dev? :)
<Laney> everyone's done it once :P
<Laney> needs moar dcut
 * tumbleweed actually hasn't - don't play with main stuff much in my PPAs
<tumbleweed> I do worry about accidentally uploading to the wrongi distribution, but source vs binary uploads helps protect a bit there
<Laney> i only did it once: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/ghc6/6.10.1+dfsg1-13~karmic1~ppa1
 * tumbleweed wonders if the archive should catch ~ppa\d+$
<tumbleweed> but it's not a big problem
<Laney> dput could
 * tumbleweed really wants the archive to catch epoch bumps
<geser> I once managed to upload a PPA package to the main repository (universe) through uploading to ppa.launchpad.net
<tumbleweed> geser: how?
<tumbleweed> Laney: grumble, still getting some Signed-By: N/A
<Laney> heh
<nigelb> geser: That sounds like you hit some bug. Or you did some /etc/hosts hacking ;)
<Laney> still kernel?
<tumbleweed> yup
<geser> I was uploading through SFTP (it was pretty new at that time) and forgot to specify my PPA in the dput call so it got uploaded to a different upload directory (or something like that)
 * tumbleweed is still waiting for SFTP support in debian...
<geser> I was surprised of the result myself (don't remember the details why it worked)
<tumbleweed> being suprised sounds totally reasonable :)
<Laney> nested_email_re is nice
<geser> found it in my IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/07/11/%23launchpad.html#t20:48
<dholbach> not too many followed up on the packaging guide rename thread - are there generally any objections or further thoughts?
<tumbleweed> dholbach: my first thought was "urgh, *platform* guide?"
<Laney> I still don't like the platform characterisation
<tumbleweed> but you are right that it's bigger than packaging and packaging might send the wrong message
<Laney> I would go with Ubuntu Develop{ment,ers} Guide
<tumbleweed> in my mind platform sends the wrong message too
<dholbach> why?
<dholbach> can you try to explain?
<nigelb> Because there's nothing about writing code for Ubuntu platform itself in the packaging guide?
<nigelb> tumbleweed: ^
<tumbleweed> nigelb: yeah, partly that. And platform just sounds big and horrible
<dholbach> nigelb, well, as soon as you make changes to any Ubuntu changes you are changing/writing code for the Ubuntu platform, no? :)
 * tumbleweed can't quite articulate it
<geser> apropos renaming: wasn't it planed to rename UUC to something more clear?
<Laney> because it's part of this platform / app separation
<Laney> making Ubuntu into this base layer on which you run your app store
<dholbach> Laney, could you imagine that it's confusing to people who want to write applications for Ubuntu?
<nigelb> dholbach: Yeah, my point is what Laney articulated better.
<Laney> we are Ubuntu Developers
<Laney> so using that in the name would be right.
<dholbach> are people who develop an application for Ubuntu "Ubuntu developers" too? :)
<nigelb> That's the confusing there :)
<Laney> are they in or seeking to be in ~ubuntu-dev?
<dholbach> that looks like a clear separation for somebody who is in the inner circles of Ubuntu
<dholbach> but I'm not sure it's a good way of explaining to somebody who is new to all of this
<dholbach> that's why I personally felt it'd make sense to bring a bit more clarity into the nomenclature
<Laney> I don't think renaming us to Ubuntu Platform Developers is the right solution
<geser> isn't there also a platform team at canonical?
<Laney> just noticed that the wiki page is still the top google hit for me
<tumbleweed> the things that are in the guide are how we do our development, not how people should write applications for Ubuntu
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide â should probably say something
<Laney> about the new location
<tumbleweed> Laney: yeah, we gave an action item for that at UDS
<dholbach> I didn't suggest renaming the ~ubuntu-dev team - what I had in mind was to explain that you can develop applications for Ubuntu, but that you can also get involved in improving the platform
<dholbach> which is likely going to be news to new demographics of users/developers
<Laney> we should explains what Ubuntu Developers do and that this is a guide to their work
 * Laney stabs facebook chat
<dholbach> ok, I'm not sold to the name of platform guide yet, but what I'm trying to do is be clearer and more inviting
<nigelb> Ubuntu Developers and Ubuntu App Developers seems like a good separation.
<nigelb> As long as we explain it well.
<Laney> packaging guide is clearly not right, because that is not what it is
<tumbleweed> dholbach: to some degree, I agree with the crazy teenagers (excuse the charictarisation) who wanted a "call for action"
<tumbleweed> I find "ubuntu platform" makes it even worse
<Laney> Ubuntu Boring Stuff Guide
<tumbleweed> it makes it sound big and boring, yeah
<nigelb> Ubuntu Red Tape Guide ;)
<dholbach> :-((((((
<dholbach> maybe we can try to revive the discussion on the list a bit?
<tumbleweed> yes, we should, I hadn't collected enough thoughts for a reply until now :)
<dholbach> I think it's worth taking into account that at some stage we might have more developers who are interested in bringing their application to Ubuntu and that they are not yet aware of the possibility to change the platform bits (or distro bits)
<dholbach> I consider this a huge selling point
<dholbach> and I don't want us to miss the opportunity to get them involved
<Laney> is developer.u.c going to talk about ubuntu development?
<dholbach> it certainly is a different demographic of people, but sentiments of "us vs. them" (although none of you alluded to any of that) won't help
<dholbach> Laney, the current packaging guide lives there and there's a platform page which talks about Ubuntu the platform - I want us to be more present there :)
<Laney> I think it would be good for the site to get a page explaining what Ubuntu Developers are
<Laney> WARM FUZZIES!
<tumbleweed> Laney: oh, grumble, I think I had forgotten to clear the mboxes first
 * tumbleweed runs it *again*
<Laney> old data?
<dholbach> thanks a lot for your thoughts
<Laney> could we run a couple of releases at a time, in parallel?
<tumbleweed> Laney: yes, did that before, but I still want to know that I'm fixing all the issues I've seen before I start from scratch
<Laney> yeh
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I'll post a follow-up now
<dholbach> thanks :)
<Laney> I added something to /PackagingGuide
<tumbleweed> micahg: aw, are we not ubuntu-desktop members any more? :)
<Laney> I used to use that to push to Tomboy's bzr branches :P (since I have upload access through ubuntu-cli-mono-dev)
<Laney> tumbleweed: what does UCT mean?
<Laney> oh, university of capetown?
<Laney> +space
<tumbleweed> yeah
<tumbleweed> eep, that extension changed
<Laney> the only calls i have ever had on the university phone have been wrong numbers
<tumbleweed> most of my friends in other departments have graduated (not fair), but there are still a few people on the other side of campus who I regularly need to phone
<tumbleweed> in the renovations earlier this year I lost the phone on my desk. It's a pain
<nigelb> tumbleweed: what do you do? research?
<tumbleweed> for some reason, when dealing with university bureaucracy, phoning them makes things much more efficient. People generally assume you are staff, rather than undergrad. Of course my generally-scruffy appearance can't help much either :P
<tumbleweed> nigelb: yeah, I'm a MSc student
<tumbleweed> dear kernel. Please stop panicing. Everything's OK, I promise
<tumbleweed> (had one this morning too)
<Laney> tumbleweed: can reverse-depends src:foo (get an option to) exclude binary packages built by foo?
<tumbleweed> Laney: sounds like it should ignore them unless we are looking at build-dependencies
<tumbleweed> Laney: many of the remaining Signed-By: N/A are backports
<tumbleweed> but not all...
<Laney> doubt we have enough data to do anything sane with backports
<tumbleweed> agreed
<Laney> but why are you getting N/A? Aren't you setting it to changedby in those cases? Or do you just mean that is when this happens?
<dholbach> Laney, tumbleweed: where are you collecting the data? I assume you're parsing -changes lists(?)
<tumbleweed> dholbach: LP
<Laney> launchpad
<tumbleweed> Laney: yes, I thought so too :P
<tumbleweed> but...
<dholbach> do you have a bit more info on what you're doing there? because I had a look at uploads before and was struggling with similar bits :)
<tumbleweed> dholbach: extracting LP upload history for the Debian UDD
<Laney> we're using getPublishedSources in Launchpad's API to get all uploads and then cleaning up the data in various nasty ways
<Laney> before putting it in a sensible format which is then imported into UDD
<dholbach> ahhhh ok
<dholbach> that sounds great
<Laney> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=users/laney/ubuntu-upload-history.git;a=blob;f=lp-udd;h=01c00ea3dd6ae2fc815620e32ac93ca24f84fc99;hb=HEAD
<dholbach> sweet
 * dholbach has a look
<Laney> tumbleweed should put himself in copyright too
<dholbach> but doesn't getPublishedSources over all uploads take ages?
<Laney> yes
<tumbleweed> Laney: so, I was only setting Signed-By = Changed-By for things without changes files (native syncs, presumably)
<dholbach> thought so :)
<Laney> luckily you only have to do that once
<Laney> after that you can just keep up to date
<dholbach> right
<tumbleweed> dholbach: yeah, if I thought ubuntu-sponsornig was painful to debug...
<tumbleweed> this takes a week for a full import
<Laney> i'll do some in parallel if you want
<dholbach> that's why I tried to read -changes mboxes, but it's even more painful, as formats changed, when trying to get LPIDs for email addresses you get uploaders like katie, or <person>-merged
<Laney> i had a script for that (it's in the git repository)
<Laney> worked ~well, but didn't catch everything (notably syncs)
 * dholbach nods
<tumbleweed> Laney: ok, from a quick squiz at this, I think it's safe to do Signed-By = Changed-By everywhere
<dholbach> it's a world kept together by exceptions :)
<Laney> tumbleweed: yeah, i thought thats what it was anyway so fine by me
<tumbleweed> Laney: for some reason at the timee I thought there were reasons not to...
<tumbleweed> gaah, every clone I have of this is set up differently
<tumbleweed> sometimes your branch is origin, sometimes mine
<Laney> you could argue that we should only use signed_by when we know that it's right
<tumbleweed> with syncs that jsut gets messy. Signed-By is overloaded...
<Laney> sure
<Laney> i don't mind it
<Laney> being always set
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I quickly ran that naming discussion past some non-ubuntu-dev friends (they may be silghtly biased by being my friends... :P )
<tumbleweed> 17:16 <&Taejo> that is an idiotic name
<tumbleweed> 17:17 <&Taejo> I would have no idea what that was about, whereas the current name actually tells you
<nigelb> heh
<dholbach> well, ubuntu packaging guide tells you that it's about packaging
<dholbach> anyway, maybe we should just pick a name for the project, move on and think about what kind of additional content we need to make it all clear
<nigelb> what color should the bikeshed be? :)
<dholbach> ...
<tumbleweed> +1 for moving on (that's another reason why I didn't reply on that thread until today)
<dholbach> this is not a religious question to me
<nigelb> dholbach: I was told a long while back, "Don
<nigelb> bah
<nigelb> dholbach: "Don't wwait for majority, if something makes sense, do it unless someone brings a majority to oppose"
<nigelb> Or something to that effect :)
<nigelb> Of course, it doesn't apply for everything, but it was in the context of making a change to something and inactive discussion around it.
<l3on> hey.. someone could help me ?... I'm some problem understanding the doko message in bug 896730
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 896730 in policycoreutils (Ubuntu) "Please merge policycoreutils 2.1.0-3 (universe) from Debian unstable " [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/896730
<tumbleweed> l3on: the patch is incomplete
<tumbleweed> l3on: it ends with a hunk header
<l3on> wth... why gmail does this to me!!!
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> attaching it directly on lp should work :)
<l3on> damnit
 * tumbleweed makes the smug doesn't-use-gmail smile
<l3on> ok, done... some sponsor here? :)
<Laney> queue is fine
<l3on> lol ok :)
<l3on> well, is it a known problem?
<l3on> I mean... everyone using gmail has the last '\n' trunked and replaced by blank space ?
<tumbleweed> l3on: that wasn't what happened here
<tumbleweed> oh, it was
<l3on> :)
<tumbleweed> just remove that hunk, it's not useful :(
<tumbleweed> :)
<l3on> ops... maybe next time I'll do..
<l3on> but, really, do you use your mail to upload patch ?
 * tumbleweed normally uses lp web interface for things like that
<tumbleweed> I use e-mail when replying to comments often, if I want to quote without hassle (and writing in a real editor is easier than a web form)
<verwilst> i want to add libdrizzle_CFLAGS="-I/usr/include/libdrizzle-1.0/libdrizzle" to my debian/rules
<verwilst> but just exporting them before dh_auto_configure -- --disable-rpath doesnt seem to work
<verwilst> any ideas?
<verwilst> ah, just needed to install pkg-config?
<tumbleweed> yes, you probably want to detect things like that with pkg-config rather than hard-coded paths
<l3on> well it's a launchpad problem 'cause if I send an email to myself, attachment is correct
<micahg> tumbleweed: nope, so no uploading random desktop components for fun :)
<tumbleweed> yay for more tidying up (damn, I never got to abuse that)
<l3on> tumbleweed, bug 898227 ... we'll see :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898227 in Launchpad itself "Email attachments are corrupted when last line is '\n'." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898227
<Resistance> broder, did that bug which blocked the natty backport of znc ever get resolved or is it still just sitting there without a resolution?
<tumbleweed> Resistance: not yet (why don't you subscribe to it?)
<Resistance> tumbleweed, because i cant find said bug
 * Resistance doesnt have a link to it
<Resistance> if you can provide me with said link i'll subscribe
<tumbleweed> it's bug 888665
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888665
<broder> Resistance: Ubuntu has "escalated" the bug (indicated to the LP devs that we consider it to be a serious issue)
<tumbleweed> wgrant said something about working on it, today, though
<tumbleweed> broder: did you find an NMU sponsor?
<broder> tumbleweed: i don't think so
<broder> i think everybody got distracted by purging yada from this earth with fire :)
<tumbleweed> sounds sensible
<Resistance> hehe
<Resistance> purging with fire
<Resistance> sounds like something i'd do
 * Resistance tends to purge evil things with the equivalent of a computer technician's nuclear device rather than a smaller, specialized tool
<tumbleweed> Laney: I started the mass import
<Laney> nice
<Laney> all looking good?
<tumbleweed> (doing two batches of 7 releases in parallel)
<tumbleweed> err two parallel, each with 7 series
<tumbleweed> don't want to kill all the lp frontends
<Resistance> and there we go, i've subscribed to that bug now
<broder> tumbleweed: anyway, debdiff is attached to debian bug #633273
<ubottu> Debian bug 633273 in python-visual "python-visual: Getting rid of unneeded *.la / emptying dependency_libs" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/633273
<broder> but i have to run at this very moment
<tumbleweed> Laney: too early to tell, but there are a good few DEBUG notices...
 * tumbleweed spots something I should have NMUed
<tumbleweed> we should have a bot that finds patches you posted on the Debian BTS more than a month ago that haven't been applied to VCS
<Majost> ah, the hilton -- cool
<Majost> oops
<micahg> tumbleweed: any idea when the ubuntu-dev alioth sponsor checker will show sponsors again?
<tumbleweed> micahg: ~ 3 days?
<tumbleweed> Laney: do you still have old data lying around?
<micahg> :(, ok
<tumbleweed> micahg: I can ask LP if I can go faster... /me sticks his head in
<micahg> tumbleweed: it's ok I guess, I think I found most of my sponsors
<tumbleweed> micahg: I can give you my old-school list-archive-scraping script for that if you want
<tumbleweed> ah, it's posted here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/extra-scripts/view/head:/list-sponsorships
<ajmitch> micahg: are you trying to look up people you've sponsored?
<micahg> what python module provides Logger?
<tumbleweed> micahg: devscripts.logger
<micahg> oh, do I have to run this from somewhere specific?
<tumbleweed> yeah, that was also designed for endorsements, you'll need to make minor modifications
<tumbleweed> you can run it anywhere, it'll cache the mboxes in ~/.cache/ubuntu-dev-tools/changelists/
<micahg> is python list-sponsorships not sufficient to run it?
<tumbleweed> should be
<tumbleweed> err, it takes arguments :)
<tumbleweed> you probably want -n '.*'
<tumbleweed> and a few -r s
<tumbleweed> err and you will want to modify it to state the sponsors
<RainCT> Any idea why "override_dh_auto_install: dh_auto_install; echo 'foo'" says "foo" first and runs dh_install/etc afterwards?
<tumbleweed> RainCT: dh_auto_install != dh_install
<RainCT> tumbleweed: uhm, so I need override_dh_install. ok, thanks
<tumbleweed> broder: you'd think jonas would know how to use CDBS...
<tumbleweed> there are a bunch of other important bugs, but I don't care about them enough to roll them in
<tumbleweed> there's a suprising amount of VCS activity for a package with non maintainer uploads in 2 years
<Laney> tumbleweed: yeah, in ~laney on samosa
<tumbleweed> micahg: ^ that's plan-b
<Laney> ubuntu-udd.old.tar.xz
<Laney> also pre-reimport is in ~laney/ubuntu-udd/ubuntu-changes.backup/
<broder> tumbleweed: ah, that's why i recognized that guy's name :)
<tumbleweed> lintian was not impressed, either :P
<tumbleweed> Laney: just committed r29 to https://code.launchpad.net/~stefanor/+junk/reverse-deps and deployed it. Doing what you expect?
<Laney> I asked for reverse deps of src:audacious and got all of the inter deps
<Laney> if they're not there then yeah
<tumbleweed> well, I think so :)
<Laney> looks better indeed
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-01
<micahg> tumbleweed: from http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/: The last timestamp in the dataset was at Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:00:00 GMT (so presumably that's how up to date this page is).
<tumbleweed> micahg: :)
<tumbleweed> that should improve slightly with the next batch of UDD data
<tumbleweed> we are ignore dates more than 2 weeks  away from SPPH record creation
<micahg> ok
<ajmitch> tumbleweed: you need to me reimport stuff already? :)
<ajmitch> s/to me/me to/
<tumbleweed> ajmitch: not quite yet. In a few days
<ajmitch> ok
<bkerensa> slangasek: You around to mentor a mentee? :P
<bkerensa> I'm trying to make a package for desura but I'm getting stuck here http://paste.ubuntu.com/755811/
<geser> is the CMakeLists.txt perhaps in a different subdirectory?
<bkerensa> geser: One does not exist in the tarball from upstream
<geser> are there any instructions how to build it?
<bkerensa> geser: It appears it was my own error the tarball they provided does not seem to contain any source anyways =/
<ockham_> hi, i'm looking for reviewers for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss
<ranko> hi everyone
<ranko> i need a bit of advice with creating an ubuntu package and putting it up on a ppa on launchpad
<geser> feel free to ask
<ranko> i have two libraries that are not present in the ubuntu repositories but need to be distributed with the game i want to package
<ranko> i want to statically link them to my game
<ranko> should i put them in the source package along with the game?
<geser> why statically linking?
<ranko> ok, i suppose static linking isn't really neccessary here
<ranko> but i need to bundle the libraries with the game somehow
<geser> statically linking is frowned upon
<ranko> ok, noted :-)
<geser> package the libraries seperately  (in your PPA), and let your game depend on them (build-depend on the -dev packages for linking)
<ranko> awesome
<ranko> i hadn't thought of that
<ranko> i have a related question then
<ranko> no, actually i don't
<ranko> that makes perfect sense
<ranko> btw, can i depend on a package in another ppa?
<geser> yes, if you specify that your PPA depends on that other PPA (works also for build-dependencies)
<ranko> thanks a lot!
<ranko> i suppose the questions weren't really motu-related
<ranko> but this seemed like a good place to ask
<nigelb> #ubuntu-packaging is a good place to ask something if its not motu related but packaging :)
<ranko> didn't know about that channel
<ranko> thanks!
<nigelb> np, have fun! :)
<bkerensa> any devs around to answer a few questions on building?
<bkerensa> :D
<nigelb> Just ask, someone will answer if they know.
<bkerensa> Ok so the problem I keep running into is when I grab source of a app that needs to be packaged and I do cmake I get a error about cmakelists.txt not being found
<geser> does the package use cmake? (not every package uses cmake)
<bkerensa> Well a example is I tried building the Unity Lens Bliss source that someone has finished ^
<bkerensa> and yeah no luck
 * bkerensa is just going based on the guide here http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
<bkerensa> How would I determine which I should use?
<geser> check what files are in the source tarball
<geser> CMakeLists.txt -> cmake
<geser> configure, Makefile.am -> configure and then make (the package uses the autotools)
<geser> just a Makefile -> make (the package probably uses a hand crafted Makefile)
<Laney> NO
<Laney> why does that talk about REVU!
<nigelb> heh
<ockham_> bkerensa: why would you try to build unity-lens-bliss manually? just run debuild.
<geser> Laney: ah, you ment the link, not my simple classification
<geser> bkerensa: that tutorial mentions cmake because this packages uses cmake for building
<bkerensa> geser: I see ;)
<Laney> yes :P
<bkerensa> sorry for being a total greenhand at this ;) I have only had to compile something a few times from source :P
<bkerensa> ockham_: When I'm building a new package and I use debuild and it asks for a changelog where do I go from there?
<ockham_> bkerensa: so your goal is to create a new package based on some existing source?
<bkerensa> ockham_: My goal is to learn how to package in general that way I can contribute by packaging stuff that needs packaging
<bkerensa> ;)
<ockham_> bkerensa: cool. well, have you found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn ?
<ockham_> bkerensa: the unity-lens-bliss package which I uploaded should be ready for just building, so you don't really have to anything else than just run debuild in order to get a binary package.
<bkerensa> ockham_ Nope ;) thanks.... For some reason MOTU was suggesting http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/ instead of the ones you referenced which seem way more through
<ockham_> bkerensa: everything needed for packaging goes to the debian/ dir, so you should look at that directory if you want to see how it's done
<bkerensa> ockham_: kk :D thanks btw
<ockham_> and if you want to start a new package, the PackagingGuides I referenced will tell you to use dh_make on the source for initializing things
<ockham_> ockham_: np. though i'm afraid i have to leave kinda now... maybe someone else can help you as you go...
<slangasek> bkerensa: hmm? :)
<dholbach> slangasek, do you already know what you all will focus your efforts on during the BSP?
<slangasek> dholbach: yes, multiarch ;)  (and some other stuff)
<dholbach> nice
<dholbach> we'll mention it in the dev update today
 * HOHOHaney Claus
<iulian> Heh.
<jgneff> Is this where I can get advice on submitting my first bug fix patch?
<iulian> jgneff: Indeed it is.
<jgneff> Great. I found this <http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/fixing-a-bug.html>, which helps a lot, but do I create the patch against oneiric or the very latest precise?
<iulian> jgneff: Precise.
<jgneff> And is there an easy way to go through the code, test, debug cycle than doing the whole (slow) pbuilder-dist thing and installing the package? I'm used to the much quicker "make; make install" into /usr/local for testing.
<jgneff> I'll test the final built package on a pristine development ISO at the end, but I don't want to do that for every little change. Am I missing something?
<slangasek> bkerensa: oh, so you were up in the middle of the night making a new package, I see.  http://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging :)
<marshall> hey masters of the univers
<marshall> e
<marshall> is this a good place to ask my question about making a deb from some downloaded source?
<Resistance> marshall, -packaging might be better, but that and here sometimes overlap a tad
<marshall> Resistance: ok, thanks
<TaiChiMustDo> Would this be the correct place to address an issue with Ubuntu repo management?
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: that depends on your question, so if you ask, we can probably redirect to the proper place
<TaiChiMustDo> I would like to address version updates of packages that are not contained in the Ubuntu repo when they are contained in others, ie, KDE apps, etc.
<Resistance> the way i understand it, an application doesnt get updated in the repos unless (a) its a new backport, in which case its in the backports repo, or (b) its been confirmed necessary and stable by the people who check stability before release of packages
<Resistance> but that's just my understanding, micahg is more likely to know better
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: stable releases usually don't get updates unless there's a stable release update exception or it's a backport
<Resistance> micahg, update exceptions, such as major security fixes?
<micahg> Resistance: bug and security fixes are usually cherry picked
<micahg> update exceptions like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
<TaiChiMustDo> For the purpose of this discussion, I'll address something more simple. There are a few plasmoids that are contained in the Ubuntu repos that are behind two or more versions while listed on KDE-*.org ashaving been updated plus to other repos
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: are they behind in the devel release as well?
<TaiChiMustDo> No.
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: are they part of KDE itself?
<Resistance> <micahg> TaiChiMustDo: are they part of KDE itself?  <-- as in part of the kde core, or a direct dependency of kde core?
<micahg> KDE has a micro release exception, but only for core components AIUI
<Resistance> that's what i thought
<micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy
<TaiChiMustDo> No, they are not core but I have confirmation the developer has upstreamed the new versions as he finishes them. Here is an example, http://goo.gl/bxJZj
<TaiChiMustDo> In the above example, the plasmoid is at v1.0.96 while in the Ubuntu repo it's 1.0.94.
<Resistance> micahg, if its not core, it doesnt get updated, right?
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: so, unless the version in the archive is broken to the point where it doesn't work at all, you'd most likely be looking at requesting a backport
<micahg> Resistance: whatever that wiki page says, I haven't reviewed it
<TaiChiMustDo> The reason why I am inquiring about it is I am a person with a disability. Any automation is especially appreciated. If I install something using a package manager but then have to wait months to be able to update it also using the package manager that defeats a huge purpose whom have difficulties manually compiling.
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: we have a new requestbackport script in ubuntu-dev-tools in precise which should make requesting these updates easier.  In general, the stable release is stable w/out new versions except for what has exceptions (Firefox, Thunderbird, ClamAV, KDE point releases, Banshee point releases, GNOME point releases)
<micahg> anything else that you want a new version for that's not entirely broke in the stable release, should probably be a backport (if that's allowed for the package)
<TaiChiMustDo> Okay, I will check the backports but I do have them active in my repo sources
<Resistance> TaiChiMustDo, if i may ask you... what's the package name that you're trying to get updated?  and does it exist in Precise yet as updated?
<Resistance> TaiChiMustDo, backports need requested by users.  and tests to prove it wont break things
 * Resistance has backported a couple of packages before, so... :P
<TaiChiMustDo> It's called Fancy Tasks http://goo.gl/bxJZj The developer also posted this: "Warning!
<TaiChiMustDo> Starting with version 1.0.95 applet requires KDE 4.7." Which for most of us who are using Kubuntu or KDE are already there.
<Resistance> i asked for the package name
<Resistance> not the plasmoid's name
<Resistance> ;P
<TaiChiMustDo> I understand. One moment pls
<micahg> plasma-widget-fancytasks
<Resistance> ah cool
<Resistance> *scans the Precise repos*
<TaiChiMustDo> Yes, thank you.
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: precise needs to be updated first, then you can request a backport
<Resistance> ^
<TaiChiMustDo> Ah, okay, I didn't see that when looking at the info of the package in Synaptic
<Resistance> not to mention .96 isnt even *in* precise
<TaiChiMustDo> Hmmm...The developer told me it is.
<Resistance> if it were, it'd *possibly* be backportable ;P
<Resistance> well then precise hasnt been updated yet
<micahg> you can use rmadison from devscripts to check versions in all releases
<TaiChiMustDo> I'll inquire with him again.
<TaiChiMustDo> Okay, very good, thank you.
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: you can file a bug request for an update and tag upgrade-software-version
<Resistance> micahg, in precise?
<micahg> Resistance: hopefully, if there's time, someone will update it in precise
<Resistance> :P
<Resistance> i also just checked debian's sid repos
<Resistance> .96 of this person's requested package doesnt exist there either
<Resistance> (although note this system is evil-ish so... it might be wrong)
<micahg> since it's not something we inherit from Debian, updates depend mainly on Ubuntu developer availability, you might ask if anyone in #kubuntu-devel has any interest in updating the package as well
<TaiChiMustDo> By activating Precise's repo, will that cause a dist-upgrade for my current 11.10 instance?
<micahg> TaiChiMustDo: no, after it's in precise, you'd have to request a backport
<Resistance> mhm
<Resistance> TaiChiMustDo, if you'd like, lemme know when its in precise, i'll help you with the backport request process...
<Resistance> or the motus can help here too
<TaiChiMustDo> Thanks, micahg, That is an excellent suggestion to check with the kubuntu-devel
 * Resistance does, however, test-backport within a PPA before actually submitting backport requests ;P
<TaiChiMustDo> Okay, very good. You've been a great help and very knowledgeable. Most appreciated on behalf of the disability community.
<TaiChiMustDo> Now, if we can get voice recognition to work well under Linux. Been tough ride.
 * Resistance chuckles
<Resistance> yeah, that'll be a toughie ;P
<ashams> Hi, I fixed a typo in psmisc package(it's my first:), the last changelog entry is "psmisc (22.14-1) unstable; urgency=low"  so should my entry be "psmisc (22.14-1ubuntu1) unstable; urgency=low" (adding 'ubuntu1' to the version) ?
<micahg> ashams: you want to target precise in the debdiff, or UNRELEASED in bzr
<ashams> micahg, sorry, I don't know what you mean!
<micahg> ashams: instead of unstable
<ashams> yeah
<ashams> so I add UNRELEASED instead of unstable, that's it?
<micahg> ashams: depends if it's bzr or for a debdiff
<ashams> I'm using bzr
<micahg> yeah, so target UNRELEASED in a merge, or you can do this when creating the changelog by using: dch -i -DUNRELEASED
<jtaylor> ashams: is it worth to do an ubuntu revision for a typo fix?
<ashams> micahg, don't know, at all
<ashams> oops
<ashams> jtaylor, what you think?
<micahg> that's a good point, probably just worth forwarding to Debian unless it's going to impair usage
<ashams> so, I'll just attach the patch?
<micahg> ashams: reportbug -B debian -A /path/to/patch psmisc
<ashams> micahg, ah, thank you
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-02
<dholbach> good morning
<micahg> morning dholbach
<HOHOHaney> ello
<`-`> #ubuntu ops are nazi fags. please remember to use your brain not that other bit of the anatomy the #ubuntu team appears to think is best.
<Rhonda> Oo
<Q-FUNK> howdy!
<Q-FUNK> any m4 guru here? :)
<HOHOHaney> I need something to alert me to forgotten CCs / attachments
<Q-FUNK> I'm trying to tweak debian/rules and I seem to be misunderstanding how to use "ifequ" in http://paste.debian.net/147813/  - I need to make the part in install be skipped in VIDEOABI is empty.
<tumbleweed> Q-FUNK: you mean ifeq
<geser> debian/rules is a simple Makefile, not a m4 macro file
<geser> have you tried to add "ifeq ($(VIDEOABI),)" before the "echo" call + "endif" after the "echo"?
<Q-FUNK> tumbleweed: erm, yes :)
<Q-FUNK> geser: http://paste.debian.net/147814/   like this?
<Rhonda> HOHOHaney: mako did some sendmail wrapper that checks for the words "attached" and similar in mails and rejects unless there is either an attachment or a special header in the mail.
<HOHOHaney> yeah, something like that
<Rhonda> HOHOHaney: http://projects.mako.cc/source/attachcheck/
<HOHOHaney> i'll look for it, t
<HOHOHaney> oh :-)
 * Rhonda . o O ( git )
<Rhonda> git clone git://projects.mako.cc/attachcheck
<geser> Q-FUNK: yes, is it intended that you moved it also to the xdepends target? (although it probably doesn't make a difference in this case)
<ockham_> hi, anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss ?
<Q-FUNK> geser: it seems to me that I might as well group all those Depends generations there.
<ockham_> btw i'm using Standards-Version 3.9.2 in it, about which REVU's linitian complains. should i really downgrade to 3.9.1?
<geser> ockham_: no, keep 3.9.2, it's just that REVU's lintian doesn't know of 3.9.2 yet (didn't get updated)
<ockham_> geser: thx, i figured. it's just a bit annoying as it kinda suggests my package isn't lintian clean. hopefully doesn't scare off reviewers...
<Q-FUNK> geser: ok.  this was a lot simpler than I thought.  thanks for the help!
<geser> ockham_: have you tried if someone from #ubuntu-desktop (or anyone from unity with upload rights) is willing to review it?
<ockham_> geser: no, not yet. good idea, though. might try #ayatana, too.
<Guest4224> hi
<tumbleweed> Laney, stgraber, cjwatson: Useful? lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/who-can-upload-876554 (e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/757271/ )
<micahg> tumbleweed: there's a lot of redundency in the output
<tumbleweed> micahg: there'd be even more if I wasn't filtering duplicate packageset permissions (don't know why those exist)
<cjwatson> it's an LP bug when opening new distroseries
<tumbleweed> micahg: one could expand teams in an area at the bottom (or say [already expanded, see above])
<tumbleweed> but tbh, I don't tihnk people will use -t much
<micahg> tumbleweed: right, but under Ubuntu Kernel Uploaders you have core-devs, then the core-dev team as a member with the list again under it
<Laney> what's the point of the tool?
<Laney> the discussion in the bug was for release team / freeze stuff
<Joe_CoT> hey, looking for people on the Security team. are there plans to update ffmpeg in the releases to address the new security fix point releases?
<Laney> the security team live in #ubuntu-hardened
<Laney> but micahg can help you ;-)
<jdstrand> Joe_CoT: mdeslaur is working on it
<tumbleweed> Laney: well it doubles as a 'what packageset is this in, without remembering how to use edit_acl tool' :)
<tumbleweed> Laney: but yes, that's why I'm asking
<Laney> I would like should-i-upload which links into some service that knows about soft freezes / freeze policies
<tumbleweed> Laney: btw, 8 / 15 releases imported
<Joe_CoT> jdstrand, cool, thanks. Do you know if there's an ETA, or a launchpad bug I can track?
<Laney> nice
<tumbleweed> soft freezes aren't visible in lp
<jdstrand> Joe_CoT: I think soonish, but you'd have to ask mdeslaur.
<Laney> yes
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: ^
<Laney> that is why 'some service' and not launchpad
<Laney> (or fixing launchpad)
<mdeslaur> Joe_CoT: I'm awaiting on an answer from siretart about some libav fixes
<Joe_CoT> ok, thanks. My company's security guy is bugging me about it, so I was asking to see if I can wait for the package update or need to compile it
<Joe_CoT> anyway, thanks for being on it :)
<mdeslaur> Joe_CoT: can't really give an ETA without the answer, but I could guess we'll have a fix out in the next 2-3 weeks
<tumbleweed> Laney: so, you don't think there's any value in listing PPUs and packagesets outside of edit_acl? or you don't think this is relevant for the bug
<Laney> I think the bug title and description ask for different things
<Laney> and personally I don't find it that useful as people generally know what they can upload and there is one interface for sponsors (modulo security) these days
<Laney> but that may be me
<tumbleweed> well, we know that LP needs to display packageset membership a little more clearly
<tumbleweed> but yes, for freezes, it doesn't tell you anything that apt-cache show | grep Task doesn't
<Joe_CoT> mdeslaur, so you have an idea of what you're updating to? like for Lucid, are you going to 5.5, or going up to one of the later releases. I think I'm going to get pushed into compiling it, but I want to go with the same version you guys are going to package
<Joe_CoT> mdeslaur, nevermind, we're waiting, since that'll be within the disclosure date, and no one seems to be exploiting the bug yet. thanks!
<Laney> tumbleweed: There might be value in can-i-upload foo if it either says "Yes you can" or a some condensed output (with --verbose)
<Laney> "No, since you do not have upload access to component main or packagesets foo bar baz (--verbose to see who does)"
<tumbleweed> we already have a lpapicache function for that
<Laney> excellent
<tumbleweed> ah, if you want the reason for not being able to, we don't
<Laney> well you just wrote it :P
<Laney> it could even indicate yes or no with exit status for use in scripts (but I cannot imagine any usecases for that atm)
<tumbleweed> you mean I'm going to have to write a manpage for this now? :)
<Laney> bdrung would let you merge it otherwise?!
<tumbleweed> I think he's got bored of reviewing every commit I make :P
<bdrung> tumbleweed: a new script without a man page?
<Laney> haha
<bdrung> ts ts ts
<broder> right on cue!
 * Laney is off to the climbing competition: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150503191911756&set=a.10150503187896756.428884.38579036755&type=3&theater â enjoy writing documentation :-)
<tumbleweed> enjoy. /me hasn't climbed in ages :/
<broder> oh yeah, speaking of docs, i'm planning to push out my new backports docs this weekend of anybody has last minute feedback
<broder> ScottK, micahg, Laney, tumbleweed: ^
<bdrung> Laney: isn't climbing with a ladder easy?
<ScottK> broder: I gave it a quick read and it seems good.
<micahg> broder: sorry, will try again this weekend to review
<bdrung> broder: where can i read it?
<broder> we *can* always change these after the fact :)
<ScottK> Yeah, I'm fine with pushing it.
<broder> bdrung: http://bit.ly/rNEOWc
<bdrung> broder: "new version of OS"
<bdrung> shouldn't that be written out?
<broder> i don't think so; we don't in the current docs
<broder> but there is a missing possessive there, which i've added :)
<Laney> hrm
<Laney> tumbleweed: I just noticed that the branch for LP API sponsoring (yay) overrides .creator but doesn't seem to give any way to get sponsor through PAI
<Laney> API
<Laney> can you ping bigjools?
<Laney> bye o/
 * tumbleweed assumes he can
<Laney> I would have done it but I don't have any time to get into a discussion
 * Laney REALLY GOES. REALLY. BYE.
<micahg> broder: typo in the second to last line, says cna should be can
<micahg> broder: also, I thought we determined that -backports is enforced with the same archive upload permissions as the rest of the pockets(except -security)
<micahg> ooh, google docs shows live editing :)
<bdrung> broder: second page: "(lucid-backports)" -> user should be informed that "lucid" is different on each release
<broder> micahg: ah yes, so we did. /me makes a note
<tumbleweed> broder: doesn't this need to cover the pre-release backports?
<broder> :-/ yeah, probably
<broder> i was hoping to have these up before that got approved so i could let the docs get stale again for a while before dealing :
<broder> :)
<tumbleweed> heh
<tumbleweed> even more reason to do it now :)
<broder> actually, i think i'd rather hold off on updating the docs until we have the infrastructure in place for pre-release backports
<broder> because i suspect that we will discover policy questions in the process of making the tools work
<tumbleweed> Laney: his merge-proposal says "UI changes will happen in a future branch" I think the API is UI
<bdrung> broder: can you highlight "unsupported updates" so that it's obvious that this is the text of the gui?
<broder> the formatting will probably look slightly different when i translate everything to wikispeak
<bdrung> broder: "If the backport does require source changes, it should go through the normal sponsorship process once it has been approved by the backports team." -> ubuntu devs can upload directly after an ACK?
<broder> bdrung: yes, but only if there are source changes required
<broder> if it's no-change, it should be done by an AA
<broder> (for now - if we can get queue permission granularity from LP, we might be able to change that)
<bdrung> broder: that should be more clear (direct upload for non-no-change backports)
<broder> bdrung: ok. re-worked the text - better?
<bdrung> broder: yes, better
<jtaylor> opinions on wether this is SRU'able? bug 877519
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 877519 in matplotlib (Ubuntu) "svg engine broken: fails with default tick labels on colorbar" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877519
<jtaylor> ups wrong bug
<jtaylor> this one: bug 871176
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871176 in matplotlib (Ubuntu) "KnownFailure should not be registered as a global nose plugin" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871176
<jtaylor> fix is simple but it also is not really such a grave bug for the regular user
<broder> seems mostly reasonable to me, but it's not my call
<broder> wouldn't this affect anything using nose, though?
<broder> (if so, i think limiting the discussion to its impact on ipython understates the problem)
<jtaylor> I assume nothing should get broken by fixing it
<jtaylor> matplotlib has nothing to do with defining global test macros
<jtaylor> only things relying on accidentally getting matplotlibs version would break and that should not be the case
<broder> for simple patches like that, the regression concern is usually not about the fix itself, but about random, unpredictable other things happening in the process of rebuilding the package
<broder> i'm kind of excited about discovering that i can do `s=$(schroot -bc natty-amd64); mk-build-deps -i -r -s "schroot -rc $s -u root --" `
<jtaylor> hm what is this error about: http://paste.ubuntu.com/757463/
<EvilResistance> any of ya able to point me at what i need to do to create a source package from actual source that comes with its own ./configure script?
<jtaylor> checkinstall can do that to some extent
<broder> EvilResistance: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html ?
<EvilResistance> broder, ah cool...
<EvilResistance> didnt know that existed :P
 * arand is guessing "dh $@"
<broder> well, yes, but the rules file isn't the hard part of creating a package these days :-P
<broder> (personally, i find i spend as much time writing the description as everything else put together)
<jtaylor> the copyright is the worst ._.
<arand> Indeed, 1200 lines is my record so far for d/copyright
<jtaylor> :O
<jtaylor> my worst has 9 different licenses
<jtaylor> but lgpl gpl and apache are in common making the file short :)
<arand> Bah, that's peanuts, I've got about 10 custom written, plus: by, by-sa, mit, zlib, ofl..
<broder> gah. string processing in C sucks
<arand> (granted, the custom one's are mostly attempts at cc-by or cc-0)
<tumbleweed> broder: that's definitly something to have as a function in my bashrc, thanks
<broder> ...huh, impressive. update-notifier pops up telling me to upgrade to oneiric when i'm running off a natty live cd
<kees> broder: if you've got enough RAM.... :P
<broder> i wonder what would happen if i went through with the install after taking the upgrade...
<broder> actually, i guess it probably explicitly just unpacks the squashfs
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-03
<psusi> cjwatson, debian is upstream for parted aren't they?  and they released 3.0 back in may.. haven't they fixed d-i to work with it yet?
<cjwatson> no
<cjwatson> there are Debian developers involved upstream, and I think Debian may provide some hosting; that does not make Debian the upstream
<cjwatson> the person in Debian who currently has the baton for adjusting d-i to work with 3.0 is me
<psusi> heh... yay ;)
<cjwatson> and no, I haven't done it yet :-P
<psusi> correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure looks like the fs code in parted could do with most filesystem types is detect that they are there... the handlers for ntfs for instance only register probe function... no resize, and parted itself says resize only works on ext2, so partman must already handle that some other way no?
<cjwatson> partman has specific fallbacks for some cases, but I am telling you that it uses libparted resize code in some cases too
<cjwatson> er, libparted fs code I mean
<cjwatson> and in any case there are long-standing bugs about the lack of good progress bars in cases where partman doesn't use libparted
<cjwatson> so this needs to be fixed *anyway*
<cjwatson> bed > germinate hacking, I think
<jtokarchuk> hello there. anyone around?
<broder> oh, huh. the sponsorship queue doesn't show my backports bug that has sponsors subscribed
<broder> i will optimistically assume that's the only reason my patch hasn't gotten sponsored yet and fix the queue
<broder> ...oh, yeah, that would never pick up my backports bug
<EvilResistance> any of the godly helpers around>?
<EvilResistance> i.e. motus
<EvilResistance> we're (that is to say, me and antother person) are trying to find why this dependency didnt get installed in the build process: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86480906/buildlog.txt.gz
<EvilResistance> pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: yaml-cpp-dev (>= 0.2.7) but it is not going to be installed.  <-- that specifically
<Bachstelze> EvilResistance: this package doesn't seem to exist in the archive
<broder> pushed out the new backports docs! kees https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports are all shiny, new, and may even be accurate for the next, i don't know, 5 minutes or so :)
<broder> kees: uh, sorry about that. irc client got a bit tab-happy for some reason...
<tumbleweed> there are two mono uploads with blank lines in the middle of the .changes file http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32316567/mono_2.4.2.3%2Bdfsg-2_source.changes http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38490961/mono_2.4.3%2Bdfsg-1_source.changes
 * tumbleweed wonders how those were accepted
<broder> ...why aren't they signed? is that auto-sync evil?
<tumbleweed> lp strips the signature
<broder> eww
<tumbleweed> but yes, those look synced
<Laney> weird, he admitted that it didn't show syncer and then still said I was wrong
<Laney> AAs (used to?) have to hack mono's changesfiles to sync them
<bkerensa> =o
<Laney> because of a bug in dak which added blank lines
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: If I am installing dev headers in another package then I am supposed to remove the soname form the -dev package name, right?
<broder> bah. everybody pretend not to notice that i just misspelled "karmick" in my mass close comments!
<nigelb> broder: Shame!
<fabrice_sp> Hi. I wrongly run a sync for 2 packages on Oneiric (as seen in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+queue?queue_state=0). Who can I poke to delete them from new?
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: Someone from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive would be your best bet.
<fabrice_sp> (by the way, I discovered recently https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+missingpackages)
<fabrice_sp> nigelb, thanks: I'll ask there
<nigelb> fabrice_sp: You can also just mention this in #ubuntu-release, someone should notice it eventually.
<nigelb> I don't think there'd be anyone around today, but someone should catch it in scrollback on Monday.
<fabrice_sp> right: it will be rejected anyway, given that this are new packages :-)
<nigelb> :)
<tumbleweed> fabrice_sp: be aware that +missingpackages doesn't know about the sync blacklist
<ockham_> hi, anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/unity-lens-bliss ?
<tumbleweed> ockham_: I can review packaging, but not the unity lens itself (I know nothing about those)
<tumbleweed> Laney: I couldn't help myself :/ lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/on-images-876554 lp:~stefanor/+junk/ubuntu-image-contents
<ockham_> tumbleweed: fine for me!
<tumbleweed> ockham_: whoah, does a simple python script really need autotools?
<ockham_> tumbleweed: seems like that's how upstream's packaging unity stuff...
<tumbleweed> ockham_: commented on REVU
<ockham_> tumbleweed: thx, gonna check it out
<ockham_> tumbleweed: about libexec: any clue where that comes from? pdebuild'ing it for precise yields a lib dir instead of libexec
<tumbleweed> ah, that's possibly from me mucking around with the package. dh does try to avoid libexec (which is a GNUism)
<ockham_> tumbleweed: it's not necessarily you -- if i pdebuild it for oneiric, i also get libexec...
<tumbleweed> oh, duh, you are overriding dh_auto_configure
<tumbleweed> you shouldn't need to
<Laney> tumbleweed: addict
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: I updated the merge branch for ubuntu-dev-tools, it now uses the full bug title as filename and included a check for 450 response code at mail delivery.
<tumbleweed> Laney: I know :/ I swear I had more useful and urgent things to do today
 * Laney certainly does
<Laney> home brewing and soup kitchening
<tumbleweed> mmm, brewing
<Laney> first attempt...
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: shouldn't you just catch all 400 series errors?
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: It doesn't make sense to give a retry option on 451/452 errors in my opinion.
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Of course I can catch all those temporary errors, but like I said in my comment, the non-450 errors can't expected to be fixed in a reasonable timeframe and it's better to just error out and send manually at a later time. (Or with a real email client)
<tumbleweed> probably reasonable
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: what's the point of the second loop?
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: it'll still try and send to the same recipients, right?
<tumbleweed> Laney: what are you brewing?
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: The first catches errors while connecting (i.e. the HELO/EHLO phase), the second loop catches error while sending (MAIL FROM/RCPT TO/DATA)
<Laney> tumbleweed: just a kit I found in the shop... Tom Caxton Real Ale - mixed reviews
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: ah, the exception only catches RecipientsRefused
<tumbleweed> most of the time 450 means graylisted, and retrying won't work so well, but prints the error, so I guess that's ok
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: Yes, the intent is that the user sees "Greylisted, try again in 5 minutes" and can then hit enter and the mail is gone.
<Ampelbein> Of course this only works if the timeout on the smtp server is higher than the greylist time. I should probably add a smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected exception.
<tumbleweed> i'd suggest being more aggressive with the title re.sub('[^a-zA-Z0-9_]', '') or something like that
<tumbleweed> Laney: good luck with it. I keep intending to do one of those (but then there'll be pressure to go full-grain...)
<Laney> that is the next step :-)
<tumbleweed> broder: thanks for picking up that microcode.ctl bug. It was languishingin my should-look-at-again pile in the inbox
<broder> not a problem. i was slightly worried that there was some other reason you upload it
<tumbleweed> that package seems to break every other day
 * broder sighs. why does everybody fix _FORTIFY_SOURCE FTBFS by turning off _FORTIFY_SOURCE?
<tumbleweed> it's slightly better than fixing unused-result by storing it in a variable and not doing anything useful with it.
<broder> debateable
<tumbleweed> :)
<broder> at least if you left FORTIFY_SOURCE turned on you'd get all of the buffer overflow protection
<broder> ...actually, why does everybody do -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE instead of -Wno-error=unused-result
<fmaker> I'm building a new package for revu which requires oneric, but I'm running natty.  Is there a way to create a minimal oneric test environment without create a full VM?
<tumbleweed> use a pbuilder chroot (or any other chroot for that matter) ?
<jtaylor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
#ubuntu-motu 2011-12-04
<broder> spock:~/patches.ubuntu.com broder$ grep -l -r -e '-U_FORTIFY_SOURCE' -e '-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=0' .  | wc -l
<broder> 18
<broder> i wonder how many of those honestly really and truly need fortification turned off
<micahg> 18 isn't such a bad number
<micahg> but in a lot of cases, I'd guess it's in the rules file and not a patch
<broder> that should show up on patches.ubuntu.com, right?
<broder> i thought that was debdiffs between our package and the debian merge base
<broder> hmm, ok. well, the first one i looked at (scheme2c) built successfully but failed with a fortification error running the test suite. that seems like it could be legitimate
<broder> ...and kees disabled fortification on the second one (sysklogd)
<micahg> broder: might not be a diff :)
<broder> haha. fair enough. i suppose i could just grep my lintian lab
<broder> or wait until kees gets hardening-check merged into lintian
<kees> sysklogd is a craaaazy one
<kees> fwiw, anything that is disabling hardening is supposed to have a) a bug open, and b) a line with details in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags
<kees> e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags#sysklogd https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ToolChain/CompilerFlags#scheme2c
<kees> broder, micahg: ^^
<broder> kees: ah, cool. i got curious about this when i was reviewing a merge for cdebootstrap
<broder> where -U_FORTIFY_SOURCE was used as a bad way of expressing -Wno-warn=unused-result
<kees> eeeeeew
<broder> yeah
<broder> (this is an old patch - not the merger's fault)
<micahg> kees: cool, I"ve seen several uploads disabling this, so now I know where to check to make sure they're being tracked
<kees> micahg: yeah, I've tried to catch them in the past, but I forgot to subscribe to oneiric-changes (and now precise-changes) until the bulk of stuff went in. I wish those lists would auto-sub everyone
<micahg> kees: FWIW, you can download an archive of it
<kees> micahg: right, that's what I usually do once I realize I forgot to subscribe. :)
<kees> but I have procmail rules set up to toss anything with "fortify" in it into my inbox so I'd see it right away.
<kees> but yeah, hopefully there will be more auto-nagging happening once lintian gains some smarts about this. I've got a fair bit of work left on that front, though.
<broder> it sounded like niels was largely receptive
<broder> though i guess the arch-dependent stuff will probably be annoying
<kees> broder: yeah, for once, my hurdles are technical. :)
<broder> hehe
<micahg> broder: is there any reason why there can't be a lintian-arch package?
<broder> micahg: it'd be a bit unfortunate. right now i can run lintian on packages of any architecture
<broder> (lintian.uw.o actually scans both amd64 and i386 packages now, not that you can tell because that information doesn't show up in the html report anywhere)
<broder> i'd vaguely like to add armel, armhf, and powerpc at some point
<micahg> broder: it might be possible to use the arch specific package on any other arch (multiarch FTW) if it's only needed for generation
<broder> possibly, although wouldn't we know at build-time the arch-specific information? seems silly to do 5 builds as a mechanism to sort out information we already know
<micahg> broder: no idea :)
<broder> kees: ^?
<broder> you were planning to code in all of the arch-specific information, right?
<broder> geez. i want to revoke freeimage's upstream's right to write makefiles
<broder> evan@caron:~/src/freeimage/freeimage$ perl -ne 'BEGIN{$max_len = 0;} END {print $max_len."\n";} $max_len = $max_len < length() ? length() : $max_len;' Makefile.srcs.OTHER
<broder> 10195
<broder> their makefile lists every source file on a single line!
<kees> O_o
<broder> it makes merging........extraordinarily painful
<EvilResistance> broder:  ouch, that sounds terrible!
<broder> it's a mess. i've at least gotten something to compile now, though it still doesn't link
<broder> ah, hopefully it's just because oneiric didn't transition to libjpeg8
<EvilResistance> bah i forgot the syntax for the backport package thing
<broder> EvilResistance: try backportpackage --help or the manpage
<EvilResistance> thanks
<EvilResistance> hey broder, can you help be diagnose an upload failure to a ppa for backporting using backportpackage?
<broder> EvilResistance: sure. pastebin the failure?
<EvilResistance> it went through everything... except this step:
<EvilResistance>   Uploading php5_5.3.8.0-1ubuntu2~lucid1~ppa1_source.changes: 3k/4k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied.
<EvilResistance> that's the error
<EvilResistance> any idea what the heck is happening here?
<broder> ah, yeah, that's not actually an error
<broder> it's an lp bug
<broder> the upload actually succeeded
<broder> you should get mail about it momentarily
<broder> bug #798957
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 798957 in Launchpad itself "PPA Uploads are seemingly (but not actually) rejected" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/798957
<EvilResistance> here's the full output: http://pastebin.com/SuXH9PfG
<EvilResistance> oh really?
<EvilResistance> (btw lag spike)
<EvilResistance> huh
<EvilResistance> yep that worked...
<EvilResistance> (and yes, its another Precise backport xD)
<EvilResistance> but thankfully *not* one i'm going to actually submit for official backporting :P
<micahg> EvilResistance: yeah, you'd run into some issues with that :) >100 rdepends
<EvilResistance> mhm
<EvilResistance> micahg:  i *did* notice that my Backports PPA did take into account that swig2.0 *was* backported from Oneiric to Natty :P
<EvilResistance> as i had requested ;P
<micahg> EvilResistance: yes, that's built
<EvilResistance> micahg:  who do i bug to cancel a dep-wait'd build?
<micahg> EvilResistance: why would you want to cancel it as opposed to fixing the dep-wait (unless you have to reupload, which will supersede the depwait build)
<EvilResistance> micahg:  because https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86583318/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.php5_5.3.8.0-1ubuntu2~lucid1~ppa1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
<EvilResistance> take a look at what's missing
<EvilResistance> like, literally *missing*
<micahg> heh, that seems like a bug in packaging almost...
<micahg> EvilResistance: fix it and upload a new version, it'll supersede it
<EvilResistance> yeeeah
<EvilResistance> i'm not in the mood to :P
<EvilResistance> MTecknology:  you do it xD
<micahg> EvilResistance: it'll only retry if it detects the depwait fixed I think, so not to worry
<EvilResistance> can i cancel the amd64 one though
<EvilResistance> which hasnt started?
<micahg> EvilResistance: if you don't have the option on the page, then no, it's not really worth bothering someone for it sidnce it's a 2 minute or less buil
<MTecknology> EvilResistance: do what?
<tumbleweed> Laney: import complete, merged.tar.gz is updated
<tumbleweed> (don't forget to merge my git branch)
<Laney> url?
<Laney> to the tarball
<tumbleweed> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/merged.tar.gz
<Laney> merci
<Laney> tar cjvf ubuntu-changes-difficult-teenage-years.bz2 ubuntu-changes
<tumbleweed> heh
<Laney> ImportError: No module named dateutil.parser
<Laney> nooooooooooo!
<Laney> how essential is that? i am loathe to bother dsa again
<tumbleweed> it's the only way to parse times with timezones
<tumbleweed> but you can hack around it locally with PYTHONPATH until dsa install it
<tumbleweed> dateutil has no other dependencies, and is pure-python...
<Laney> arkle, ok, in a bit
<Laney> importing
<Laney> epic fail
<Laney> Closes: 282717 143536 281671 281672 271232 258698 210932 237109 233980 228298 225936 223579 221483 43538 100330 161947 205608 221483 221148 220275 219621 219336 217533 206559 203280 204790 205606 202189 190886 120704 171163 169501 161020 147408 144165 111752 111752 115200 113621 110563 98974 98974 98986 98670 98672 63012 70142 72075 85809 88108 95447 96149 91315 80561 87687 54740; urgency=medium 25193; urgency=low
<Laney> ?!?!?!?!??!?!?!
<Laney> oh, I remember
<tumbleweed> lol
<Laney> I remember â ignored 2005 from LP last time
<Laney> doesn't explain how it got in there :P
<tumbleweed> Laney: looks like two issues:
<tumbleweed> dpkg-parsechangelog's --since looks for that exact version, not <=
<tumbleweed> and this entry: autoconf (2.13-17) unstable; closes=54740; urgency=medium
<Laney> wow, was that valid?
 * tumbleweed doesn't know BTS history, it's from 2000
<tumbleweed> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1999/01/msg02650.html
<tumbleweed> doesn't look like it
<tumbleweed> thing is, we probably have too much data in the Closes lines
<tumbleweed> I don't think I want to do another full import quite yet
<Laney> ffs
<Laney> SELECT DISTINCT signed_by_name from ubuntu_upload_history where signed_by_name like '%<N/A>%';
<tumbleweed> that's not too bad
 * tumbleweed wonders how Piotr is signing uploads for Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> oh, I see
<Laney> oh
<Laney>           if current['Signed-By'].find('@') != -1:
<Laney>             current['Signed-By_name'], current['Signed-By_email'] = aux.parse_email(current['Signed-By'])
<Laney>           else:
<Laney>             current['Signed-By_name'] = current['Signed-By']
<Laney>             current['Signed-By_email'] = ''
<tumbleweed> Laney: grumble, finding a bunch of problems here
<tumbleweed> we're donig version comparison with strings...
<Laney> yeah that sounds like a bad idea
<jtaylor> hm we should remove psyco from precise, it only works with python 2.6
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: please
<jtaylor> requries blacklisting or?
<tumbleweed> not entirely sure what the best answer there is. There's an RFA bug for it in Debian that says "maybe the package should be removed from Debian altogether"
<tumbleweed> so maybe it'll go away
<tumbleweed> Laney: also doesn't look like we have superseded spph entries in ancient releases
<jtaylor> hm yes debian will probably remove it before wheezy, I'll check up on it if it was not done before precise release
<tumbleweed> it's not in wheezy
<jtaylor> ah
<Laney> what goes wrong if we remove status="Superseded"?
<tumbleweed> slows down
<tumbleweed> that was a performance hack
<Laney> would it be that much worse?
<tumbleweed> naah, screw lp
<Laney> doesn't feel like it would pick up /that/ many more spphs
<Laney> most should be superseded anyway
<tumbleweed> yup
<Laney> let's see if those changes work
<tumbleweed> ok, so why does POX turn up as a signer
 * tumbleweed goes digging
<Laney> no more <N/A> in signed_by_name
<Laney> http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=*&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Micah+Gersten&sponsoree_search=name looks better
<tumbleweed> um, distribution=unstable in upload history?
<Laney> syncs
<tumbleweed> right, but we want the target distribution, surely?
<tumbleweed> that I can actually fix up quite easily without re-importing
<Laney> probably. it uses the changelog currently
<tumbleweed> :/ it's so hard to find problems in the data until you start playing with it...
 * tumbleweed needs a zsed
<Laney> used to have some code to construct the distribution, but it  must have been before the initial commit :(
<tumbleweed> heh, jaunty has zodb 1:3.6.0-4, edgy had 3.6.0-4
<tumbleweed> recipe for changelog confusion
<Laney> good job those debs weren't in the archive at the same time
<tumbleweed> looks like even the changelogs in the librarian got messed up by that
<tumbleweed> looks like we need some de-duplication of Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed. Look at kernel uploads
<Laney> how did they get there?
<tumbleweed> haven't got that far yet
<Laney> pushed spph distribution usage
<tumbleweed> ok, manually fixed that up
<Laney> how did you map back?
<tumbleweed> because I had improted each release into a separate directory
<Laney> oh you cunning fox
<tumbleweed> new merged.tar.gz published
<Laney> i'll start a reimport and then i have to go do some christmas shopping
<tumbleweed> you just freaked me out. That's not something I want to be thinking about, yet
<Laney> last night I had a dream that it was December 24th and I hadn't got any presents yet
<Laney> taking that as a sign from my subconscious
<Laney> ok then, reimporting
<Laney> ttyl
<tumbleweed> Laney: so, POX is the package_creator of sqlalchemy 0.2.8-1 in the SPPH (it's a sync, in edgy) https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcepub/134477
<tumbleweed> Laney: and nobody is the creator or signer of https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcepub/1835055 (which is an early native-sync)
<tumbleweed> generating 11 lines of text for each upload shouldn't be so rediculously error-prone
<l3on> Hi all, someone could help to figure out if NO_PKG_MANGLE is still mandatory with cdebootstrap ?
<l3on> I found this bug debian 486899
<ubottu> Debian bug 486899 in cdebootstrap "cdebootstrap: Please set NO_PKG_MANGLE while building nested package" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/486899
<l3on> and I'm building without NO_PKG_MANGLE..
<l3on> what should I look for ?
<tumbleweed> didn't we discuss this a while ago?
<l3on> tumbleweed, yes... but the discussion was only "Hey l3on, you forgot to add NO_PKG_MANGLE" :D
<l3on> so, I don't know what reply in the bug
<tumbleweed> well, after the last message in that bug, do you really think the maintainer has changed his mind?
<l3on> tumbleweed, no but it's a 2008 msg...  :)
<tumbleweed> you can try, I guess, but I expect no reply or a NACK
<l3on> tumbleweed, wait... problem here is that Felix was asking me to figure out if NO_PKG_MANGLE is still necessary ...
<l3on> and I would like to know how to reply him :)
<tumbleweed> l3on: I can't answer that, I don't know enough about pkgbinarymangler.
<l3on> I'm building cdeboostrap without that, and then I should check mangle packages, but... what do I have to look for ?
<l3on> ah ok :)
<l3on> in any case, thanks :)
<l3on> ah tumbleweed other thing... :P
<l3on> Should we prefer "-Wno-warn=unused-result" o "-Wno-error=unused-result"
<l3on> ?
<tumbleweed> no-error, so that you can still see the warnings
<l3on> oki :)
<l3on> fabrice_sp, ping :)
<effie_jayx> hello all,
<effie_jayx> can anyone give me some advise on how packaging separate branding for an app like firefox works?
<JanC> effie_jayx: I think that depends highly on the application itself (how easy does the application make this?)
<JanC> also, hi, long time since we chatted last time, I think  âº
<effie_jayx> JanC hey :)
<effie_jayx> JanC: well I did mention about firefox, kinda hoping any mozilla ubuntu ninja responded
<JanC> I think Firefox has some infrastructure to make this reasonably easy
<JanC> effie_jayx: you might also want to ask in #ubuntu-mozillateam then
<effie_jayx> thanks JanC, won't be a stranger :)
<JanC> but AFAIK Firefox allows you to put branding into one file with references and/or a separate directory or something
<fabrice_sp> l3on, pong
<l3on> fabrice_sp, hey... hi! It's about bug 884185... I don't know how to figure out if NO_PKG_MANGLE is still required... could you give me some input?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 884185 in cdebootstrap (Ubuntu) "Please merge cdebootstrap 0.5.8 (universe) from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884185
<fabrice_sp> Hey l3on, I would build it with and without. What tool do you use to build packages?
<JanC> effie_jayx: also, maybe some people in -locoteams can help (some of them make their own modified live/install CDs)
<l3on> fabrice_sp, debomatic ..
<effie_jayx> JanC: thanks
<fabrice_sp> l3on, can you check if pkgbinarymangler is installed or not?
<l3on> fabrice_sp, here you can find cdebootstrap with NO_PKG_MANGLE=1
<l3on> http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/
<l3on> fabrice_sp, yes... pkgbinarymangle is installed
<fabrice_sp> l3on, I can see that in the build log :-)
<l3on> :)
<l3on> fabrice_sp, let me know when I can upload the other version... (without NO_PLK_MANGLE)
<fabrice_sp> l3on, why don't you just upload a 2.1 version to be able to compare both?
<l3on> fabrice_sp, yes your' right :P
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<fabrice_sp> l3on, the problems that was fixed that was was with pkgstriptranslations (see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cdebootstrap/0.3.15ubuntu1 ), so if it FTBFS without NO_PKG_MANGLE, that's it
<l3on> eh ?!
<tumbleweed> why was that a problem, though? cdebootstrap isn't main
<fabrice_sp> yeah, I know
<fabrice_sp> I assume it was FTBFS in feisty
<fabrice_sp> that's why I think it's not useful anymore
<l3on> well now it builds fine
<tumbleweed> and the nested deb looks ok?
<l3on> tumbleweed, I looked into and they present same files
<fabrice_sp> with the same sizes?
<l3on> I didn't check :/
<l3on> Ok... here NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 enabled: http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu1/
<l3on> here NO_PKG_MANGLE dropped: http://debomatic.debian.net/precise/pool/cdebootstrap_0.5.8ubuntu2/
<fabrice_sp> l3on, tks! I'm checking the files
<l3on> broder, ping
<l3on> fabrice_sp, you're welcome :)
<fabrice_sp> l3on, seems identical. Did yo utest the package without NO_PKG_MANGLE ?
<l3on> fabo, nu
<l3on> ops... fabrice_sp nu
<fabrice_sp> l3on, cdebootstrp-static works fine, so I think that NO_PKG_MANGLE can be dropped
<l3on> fabrice_sp, thanks... I'll work on it :)
<fabrice_sp> l3on, thank you to work on it!
<jtokarchuk> howdy, I just submitted an app for mentorship, I have used ubuntu for a while but have now fully made the jump from Windows. Will take a little to get used to the programming environment of Linux, but excited to help out.
<Laney> tumbleweed: ah, fun. I can live with it if the problem is Launchpad's, not ours.
<tumbleweed> yeah, so take this data with a pinch of salt...
<Laney> "it is what it is"
<tumbleweed> "pull requests accepted"
<tumbleweed> the massive lists of bugs come from the .changes files, so no point de-duplicating them
<Laney> well, that's cheap to do isn't it?
<Laney> list(set(foo))
<tumbleweed> it is
<Laney> I don't mind fixing problems with the data if it is clearly wrong and there is a relatively-non-hackish fix
<Laney> but when LP just holds plain incorrect data I also don't mind living with it
<Laney> basically we should make it as good as we can and no better
<l3on> Daviey, ping
<l3on> someone knows how I can check if xen_netback and xen_netback are built in for the server and generic-pae kernel in precise ?
<broder> l3on, tumbleweed, fabrice_sp: for what it's worth, pkgbinarymangler does a bunch more things for real archive builds than PPA or local builds, so this may just not be possible to test easily
<broder> ...i guess you might be able to create a /CurrentlyBuilding file that would fool it...
<tumbleweed> Laney: committed
<l3on> cjwatson, ping
<Laney> tumbleweed: I already did that!
<Laney> without sorted() though
<tumbleweed> the curse of DVCS :P
<Laney> merged
<tumbleweed> ta
<Laney> oops
<Laney> mismerged :P
<tumbleweed> indeed
<Laney> who needs to test?
<tumbleweed> I tested on a single record
<tumbleweed> it fails now, with the mismerge, btw
<Laney> never!
<Laney> there
<Laney> WTF
<Laney> ok, crons back on
<tumbleweed> Laney: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stefanor/upload_activity/ (Jan 2006)
<tumbleweed> that's around your cutoff for the new data, right?
<tumbleweed> well, duh
<tumbleweed> but why the old data island
<Laney> i started with new stuff from 2006-03
<Laney> it deduplicates within a run
 * tumbleweed wonders what's going on with the first 3 weeks of 06, then
<Laney> so if there was some overlap between old and new it probably chose the new?
<tumbleweed> right, but then ther's 2 weeks of old again
<broder> hmm...i wonder why dpkg-source adds the debian-changes-blah patch to the end of the quilt series. that seems backwards
<Laney> yes
<Laney> there was a test import of some kind into soyuz
<Laney> before it was opened to everyone
<Laney> it's probably to do with that
<tumbleweed> broder: newer ones don't
<Laney> gorra go out, ttyl
<broder> tumbleweed: you mean because they refuse to add the patch, or because they add it to the beginning?
<tumbleweed> broder: what's wrong with the end of the quilt series?
<tumbleweed> you can't put it at the beginning, if all the patches are applied
<tumbleweed> end is the only place it can go
<broder> tumbleweed: because it's finding the remaining changes after unapplying the patches
<tumbleweed> broder: yeah, that'd probably be wrong
<tumbleweed> although, conceptually, you'd expect dpkg-source --commit to put it at the end
<broder> as a side note, debian qa uploads are allowed to make arbitrary improvements to packages, right?
<tumbleweed> sure
<verwilst> hi guys,trying to build mysql-server-5.5 in my ppa, but it fails..
<verwilst> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/86557173/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.mysql-5.5_5.5.17-4ubuntu6ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<verwilst> it built fine on my test machine
<verwilst> i just changed gcc-4.5to gcc-4.4 because im compiling for lucid
<verwilst> which went fine in my testing
<verwilst> CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-2.8/Modules/CMakeDetermineCCompiler.cmake:44 (MESSAGE):  Could not find compiler set in environment variable CC:  i686-linux-gnu-gcc-4.4.
<verwilst> any idea?
<jtaylor> does someone have a native ppc machine running unstable or precise?
<micahg> jtaylor: I have access to a porter box as should the DDs in this channel
<micahg> jtaylor: do you need to check something runtime or build time?
<jtaylor> build time
<jtaylor> a package crashes gcc on my pbuilder-dist
<jtaylor> micahg: ~jtaylor-guest/public_html/pyzmq_ppc_compiler-error.c.gz on wagner, the commandline to build is the second line in the file
 * micahg guesses this is a host he doesn't have access to
<micahg> or was this part of the alioth break out
<jtaylor> not sure alith = wagner or vask?
<Zhenech> both :)
<jtaylor> alioth.org gets me on wagner
<jtaylor> or is it balanced?
<Zhenech> ssh is wagner, ~ is shared iirc
<Zhenech> vasks is static (anongit etc)
<jtaylor> public_git is not shared
<jtaylor> I always push to the wrong host ^^
<micahg> jtaylor: sorry, can't access that easily at the moment, maybe one of the DDs can help
 * Zhenech looks idly
<jtaylor> I'll ask in a debian channel
<Zhenech> /srv/home/users/jtaylor-guest/public_html/pyzmq_ppc_compiler-error.c.gz: Permission denied
<Zhenech> i should at least have read perms :P
<jtaylor> ups
<jtaylor> fixed
<Zhenech> yeah
<Zhenech> lets see which porterbox i need
<jtaylor> some powerpc
<jtaylor> recent unstable, if it is a real issue it was probably introduced in the latest gcc -5
<Zhenech> ew
<Zhenech> did you erase the file?
<Zhenech> just wanted to scp it to pescetti
<jtaylor> I decompressed it
<Zhenech> ah
<Zhenech> k
<Zhenech> got it
<jtaylor> srym, just tried if the compile command works on wagner
<Zhenech> compiling *drumroll*
<Zhenech> takes too long now, I bet something will crash :)
<jtaylor> its a large file :)
<Zhenech> (sid)evgeni@pescetti:~$ ls
<Zhenech> pyzmq_ppc_compiler-error.c  pyzmq_ppc_compiler-error.o
<Zhenech> na worked
<jtaylor> gcc version?
<jtaylor> so probably an issue with the VM then, thx
<Zhenech> http://paste.debian.net/148111/
<jtaylor> hm thats -4
<jtaylor> -5 is recent
<jtaylor> porterbox is on testing?
<Zhenech> that's what installed in the sid dchroot
<Zhenech> i could fetch my ppc, but tooo lazy *g*
<jtaylor> :) thanks for the help
<jtaylor> if you have time it would be great if you could retry it when -5 is in that chroot
<jtaylor> its not urgent
<micahg> YokoZar: I noticed that we just got a wine-gecko-unstable package (versioned 1.0.0+dfsg-1), could you file for removal/blacklist if it's not need
<YokoZar> micahg: from sync I presume?  yeah it's probably blacklist
<micahg> YokoZar: yeah, most likely
<effie_jayx> Guys, good evening. now that most peopel use VCS to manage packages, are deb-src  a thing of the past?
<effie_jayx> I mean making a apt-get source X is only needed when?
<micahg> effie_jayx: depends on your workflow and purpose of apt-get source as well as if it's maintained in a VCS or not
<effie_jayx> micahg: with regards distributions, lets say I have an ubuntu derivative, Do I really need to publish deb-src eventhough the sources are maintained in a VCS?
<effie_jayx> or is it two separate things?
<micahg> effie_jayx: 2 separate things, deb-src is showing what source produced which binary, the VCS shows the history of the package
<effie_jayx> ok thanks
<effie_jayx> also micahg when stablishing differences in source packages debdiff and apt-get source would be more suitable than just cloning a repo and then building a source package
<effie_jayx> it is not integral
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-26
<dholbach> good morning
<obounaim> Hunk #1 succeeded at 17 with fuzz 1. what does it mean?
<Logan_> It means that a part of a patch applied correctly, but it was one line off of what is specified in the patch.
<ScottK> Logan_: Isn't that offset 1?
<ScottK> Fuzz is the number of lines of context that had to be ignored to make the patch apply.
<Laney> It's if the context is a bit different
<Laney> patch(1) explains it
<Logan_> Oh, right, my bad.
<ScottK> obounaim: It merits manual investigation to make sure the patch applied where you wanted and still does what you want.
<obounaim> Ok, thanks all of you.
<micahg> jtaylor: sorry I didn't get to look at your backport this weekend, I'll try to squeeze it in at some point
<ScottK> Logan_: Are you Logen Rosen?
<Logan_> That's me.
<ScottK> Logan_: Forwarding new version should be packaged bugs to Debian while they are in pre-release freeze isn't particularly likely to be of benefit.
<ScottK> (I noticed the skanlite one because I'm subscribed to the relevant Debian mailing list)
<Logan_> True, but it encourages the maintainer to fix it after the freeze. And we can always submit a patch if the change is applied in Ubuntu first.
<ScottK> It also causes maintainer annoyance at Ubuntu.
<Logan_> jtaylor: poke
<jtaylor> Logan_: ?
<Logan_> jtaylor: I'm doing a merge of pyg from Debian, and I noticed that you "include required string.h in wlp/C/commands.{l,y}" - this was done in Debian, but only for the .y file - should the .l delta remain?
<jtaylor> hm is the l file autogenerated?
<Logan_> i.e. include 'string.h' was only done in commands.y in Debian, and not in .l, as it was in Ubuntu
<jtaylor> I'm not very familiar with this lexing stuff
<Logan_> actually, it probably is
<jtaylor> I just patched both and the warning disappeared, possibly the l patch was not needed
<jtaylor> if the implicit declaration warning is gone you can drop it
<Logan_> alright, cool, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-27
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> oh it's that time again =) Good morning Dan :)
<obounaim> Good morning dholbach.
<Rcart> good morning o/
<dholbach> hi ESphynx, Rcart :)
<obounaim> Hello everybody
<dholbach> Is anyone interested in the ubuntu development hangout (on air) at 16 UTC (in 20m) and talk a bit about what you're working on?
<vibhav> dholbach: I can be there
<dholbach> vibhav, cool
<Laney> dholbach: I'll join you for the next one if you like
<dholbach> Laney, I'll add you to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Hangouts - you mean the one next week or the one early on thursday?
<Laney> well I'll be away next week
<Laney> 9UTC might be a bit early ...
<Laney> put me down for the 11th :P
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> Laney, any specific topic you'd like to talk about or shall we just wing it?
<Laney> desktop stuff I've been doing (gstreamer 1.0 porting which has scope for people interested in coding to help with)
<Laney> motu stuff
<Laney> release team
<Laney> all that jazz
<Laney> backports
<dholbach> perfect
<dholbach> thanks a bunch Laney
<jtaylor> does ony main stuff get added to the jenkins autopkgtest suite or can universe go in there too?
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> how can create a debdiff with two dsc which are linked to the same .orig.tar.gz?
<jtaylor> debdiff *dsc
<jtaylor> mh markdown is in adt and its universe, are the things added automatically?
<alo21> jtaylor: I receive as error that debdiff expects a .orig.tar.gz 1547 MiB instead od 941 MiB
<jtaylor> wtf
<jtaylor> what has such a large orig.tar
<alo21> jtaylor: let me explane...
<alo21> I have two versions of a progarm
<alo21> one for example is v 1.0 and the other is 1.1
<alo21> 1.0's dsc is linked to a 1_orig.tar.gz which is for example 75 MiB...
<alo21> 1.1's dsc is linked to another 1_orig.tar.gz which  is 80 MiB
<alo21> so the name of the orig.tar.gz are the same, but che contents are different
<jtaylor> how can they have the same name but different content
<jtaylor> the orig tar name must include the version
<alo21> jtaylor: I am talking especially about blueman in MoM
<jtaylor> so the orig tar in debian and ubuntu diverge?
<alo21> yes
<jtaylor> hm
<alo21> jtaylor: someone suggests me to merge it by my hand, but this does not resolve the conflict between .dsc files
<jtaylor> I would merge the debian changes into ubuntu and create a debdiff to the old ubuntu package
<jtaylor> it can be properly merged next upstream release
<jtaylor> what is the difference in the orig tar? just compression or is the content differnt?
<alo21> between the debian and ubuntu packages there are 53 conflicts... so I think the content is different
<jtaylor> check why its different please
<jtaylor> that should not happen
<jtaylor> conflicts should only happen because someone compressed it differently but the content should stay the same
<jtaylor> checksum conflicts that is
<jtaylor> vcs conflicts can arise due to other reasons and are annoying but not necessarily a problem
<alo21> jtaylor, strange.. I can't run merge-buildpackage because it says me 'Unmet build dependencies'. This is the first time I occurred this problem
<gotwig> Hello, Masters
<gotwig> I have problems with packaging my app for Ubuntu 12.04. It seems to work with packaging for 12.10 and 13.04. : https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124231249/buildlog.txt.gz  | https://code.launchpad.net/~gotwig/+archive/foto-fixedpackages/+recipebuild/353068/+files/buildlog.txt.gz https://code.launchpad.net/~gotwig/+archive/foto-fixedpackages/+recipebuild/353067/+files/buildlog.txt.gz
<gotwig> can someone help pls?
<gotwig> quadrispro, hey
<alo21> jtaylor, I run merge-buildpackage, and I received 'dpkg-source: info: you can integrate the local changes with dpkg-source --commit'... and it created a file (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1392794/)
<micahg> alo21: Debian has the wrong orig tarball for blueman, so, IMHO, not worth merging
<alo21> micahg, do you think is a good idea to open a bug in debian?
<micahg> debian 691655
<micahg> are the bots still missing?
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security-proposed/+archive/ppa/+build/4016896
<micahg> oops
<micahg> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=691655
<micahg> it would be a fake merge anyways (need to use the Ubuntu orig tarball)
<alo21> what 'bots' mean?
<micahg> so, I'd just suggest making the one change that Debian made for the added dependency if it makes sense and wait for a new upload there
<micahg> alo21: ubottu and friends
<alo21> micahg, If I will make that change on the ubuntu package, I will not able to create the debdiff
<alo21> ..
<alo21> between the old and the new ubuntu
<micahg> alo21: you'd need to start with the old ubuntu package and just make that change
<micahg> (not merge, just make the fix)
<micahg> making a debdiff in this case isn't trivial anyways
<alo21> micahg, mm... I think no worth it
<micahg> right :)
<alo21> thank you so much for your support and spending time on helping me
<micahg> I think the reason I didn't make the dependency change manually is that it's seeded everywhere already
<micahg> well, except for kubuntu...but I doubt that people are running a gtk bluetooth manager in KDE
<jtaylor> meh I'm really wasting buildd cycles...
<jtaylor> stupid arch/-indep splitting and my inability to test properly
<alo21> micahg, do you think doc-debian can be dropped (LP: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doc-debian) (PTS: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/doc-debian/current/changelog) ?
<micahg> alo21: why drop?
<alo21> because I think all the ubuntu's changes are in debian now
<micahg> oh, that, maybe try in a PPA
<micahg> backportpackage can help with that
<alo21> micahg, what? I would first import that in raring
<micahg> alo21: no, use backportpackage to test build the Debian package in your PPA
<micahg> in raring
<alo21> micahg, usaully I use my pc to test the packages.... but my doubt is about merge or sync
<alo21> usually*
<micahg> alo21: right, you won't know with this one most likely unless it's a PPA, it seems to be a soyuz specific failure from the changelog
<micahg> alo21: so you can test build locally to watch for obvious failures, then if that works, throw it in a PPA
<micahg> if that works, you can probably request a sync, but did you ask Bhavani if he's working on it since he touched it last?
<alo21> micahg, thanks for your advice... I'm going to contact him (do not worry)
<micahg> thanks
<alo21> you are welcome.... but do you think (reading the changelog) that all bugs are fixed in debian too now
<alo21> ?
<micahg> alo21: maybe, it's not explicit, but hinted at
<jtaylor> builds in the queue are not executed if they have been obsoleted right?
<micahg> jtaylor: I'm sure you're aware of how to do an arch only build locally, right :)
<micahg> jtaylor: and yes, obsoleted builds should be skipped
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> I just screwed up the testing
<jtaylor> had the fix in the chroot but not in the tree I did the  -S
<xnox> jtaylor: all packages are added to the jenkins autopkgtest, universe included.
<jtaylor> xnox: thx
<jtaylor> when are they built?
<jtaylor> s/build/executed/
<xnox> jtaylor: currently on every upload, the plan is to execute on every package upload as well as re-executing all autopkgtest of the reverse dependencies.
<xnox> such that we can catch if new packageA breaks packageC & packageD which depend on packageA.
<jtaylor> neat, though that requires quite some resources :O
<xnox> not really, as the tests are very simple and quick. We don't have nearly enough tests to start causing a load problem.
<jtaylor> if its so I can add some tests that take days ;)
<jtaylor> what does adt actually stand for?
<jtaylor> what kind of machine is hosting that jenkins instance, its faster than my localhost jenkins at my work pc ._.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-28
<dholbach> good morning
<shadeslayer> hi, I was wondering if someone could advise me a bit about spaces in .link files
<shadeslayer> the original file has spaces in the folder name, causing dh_link to parse the link file improperly
<shadeslayer> so something like : /usr/share/foo/b a r should be linked to /usr/share/foo/bar
<geser> and you have to keep the filename with spaces too?
<geser> have you tried escaping or using "? if neither works then you probably have to do it by hand in debian/rules
<Zhenech> shadeslayer, spaces in debhelper files are evil, avoid em
<shadeslayer> geser: the problem is more in the dir name
<shadeslayer> it's /usr/share/f o o/bar
 * shadeslayer is still playing around
<shadeslayer> okay so, this is what I'm using : /usr/share/wallpapers/Dryland\ -\ Third\ Edition\ -\ The\ Map/contents/contents/images/1920x1200.jpg /usr/share/netrunner/ubiquity/background.jpg
<shadeslayer> does not work :(
<shadeslayer> http://paste.kde.org/616130/
<shadeslayer> and I think dh_link just ignores the escapes
<shadeslayer> ah well, manually it is
<geser> shadeslayer: what might also work: /usr/share/wallpapers/Dryland*/contents/contents/images/1920x1200.jpg /usr/share/netrunner/ubiquity/background.jpg
<geser> (if I read the code correctly and assuming that the first part will expand to exactly one file)
<achiang> hello, process question. for an MP like this, should i subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, or do i wait for reviewers to pick it up first? https://code.launchpad.net/~achiang/appmenu-gtk/memleaks-787736-780602/+merge/136550
<micahg> achiang: that has nothing to do with ubuntu-sponors
<micahg> you're asking to merge into an upstream branch
<achiang> micahg: i see. so presumably once it's merged, the upstream team could make an upload to precise-proposed?
<micahg> achiang: if they make a release , or you can take the patches after they're merged into the trunk branch and try to get them uploaded to precise-raring
<achiang> micahg: got it
<achiang> thanks
<micahg> achiang: it sounds like they're already committed to trunk though...
<achiang> micahg: eh? it was a backport of upstream trunk into the precise branch
<micahg> achiang: that branch is labeled as trunk, as this is a desktopish package, maybe ask them how to proceed here
<achiang> alrighty, thanks
<radu> hi
<radu> I have a question regarding SRUs
<radu> I'm looking at this bug assigned to the hundred papercuts team: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/1052481
<radu> this bug is irrelevant for raring, because of changes to nautilus between 3.4 and 3.6. What would I have to do if I want to get it fixed in quantal and precise?
<radu> the bug itself is easy to fix, but how do you go about getting the fix added in the stable version?
<xnox> radu: you nominate the bug for correct series and adjust status per-series. like I have now done.
<radu>  xnox: ok thanks.
<xnox> radu: if you need similar help for other bugs, #ubuntu-bugs is the channel. Those folks know everything about bug management =)
<micahg> xnox: actually, SRU is more MOTU land than -bugs, -bugs is about triage mostly whereas SRU is a dev thing
<xnox> micahg: sure, but in this case the real question was "i need this to be targetted at two releases, excluded dev release. how do I do this in launchpad bug tracker?"
<xnox> unless I misunderstand.
<micahg> right, so, only bug control (and teams that are members of it) and drivers can target, but only drivers + devs can approve AIUI
<radu> well, this is my next question - if I add a patch with a fix, how do I go about finding someone to sponsor it for upload in the stable release?
<micahg> so, if you actually want tasks instead of a nomination, you have a better chance here
<xnox> radu: now, the next step is to follow sru procedure & adjust the bug description (which is amost ok now) and now create debdiff attach to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
<radu> aha, so I subscribe ubuntu-sponsors and wait for someone to review it. Excellent, thanks
<xnox> radu: then sponsors will upload it, sru team accept it, then everyone needs to verify that it fixes the problem and then it will be released into updates.
<ESphynx> xnox : ping
<xnox> ESphynx: what is nobody sponsoring your upload?
<xnox> *sigh*
<ESphynx> nonone is and dardevelin is what the hecking me :P
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-29
<dholbach> good morning
<Rcart> good morning daniel o/
<dholbach> hi Rcart
<obounaim> Hello,
<bdrung> dholbach: thanks for the "clearing the queue" mail. the only solution, i came up with, was to throw more people at the queue.
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> I just had a look at ~10 entries in there
<dholbach> if we all help out, and everybody with upload rights should, we'll get there
<bdrung> dholbach: can we have a list of sponsor items associated with the last uploader?
<bdrung> then we could poke people at looking at the sponsor request instead of just asking in general
<dholbach> hum, I'm not quite sure what you'd like to do
<bdrung> dholbach: https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/raring/scheme2c/debian-merge/+merge/136770 -> is that done? if yes, why is it still in the queue?
<dholbach> it's uploaded, but the merge has not happened in LP yet
<bdrung> dholbach: can we get it technically out of the queue? maybe setting: in progress or checking -proposed?
<bdrung> example for my idea: bug 1075994 -> package lvm2 -> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/2.02.95-5ubuntu1 -> last uploader: xnox
<dholbach> bdrung, I don't know - I'll mark it as merged when it's merged in LP
<dholbach> ah, no, that's not easy to be done :-/
<bdrung> dholbach: where should the uploaded branch pushed to? ubuntu:package?
<dholbach> bdrung, I usually wait for LP to automatically merge it :)
<dholbach> but yes
<xnox> bdrung: hm?
<xnox> bdrung: hmm that needs more work. Ok i'll get around to it.
<bdrung> xnox: i gave dholbach an example how to poke people to do sponsoring (by determing the last uploader)
<xnox> bdrung: very scientific =)
<xnox>  /msg bdrung shhhh don't give the secrets away to dholbach
 * xnox whoops
<bdrung> xnox: but it seams to work (in this small case example) :D
<bdrung> dholbach: btw, is logan ready for MOTU?
<dholbach> bdrung, I just sent him a d-a-t mail about the same topic earlier today ;-)
<dholbach> I believe he is
<dholbach> I'll let you know about his reply
<bdrung> dholbach: d-a-t?
<dholbach> dev advisory team
<xnox> micahg: Laney: dholbach: bdrung: MOTU meeting in 10 minutes
<Laney> holy
<xnox> or so my calendar tells me =)
 * xnox may or may not be even/odd week out of sync
 * Laney has no idea
<Laney> we missed loads
<dholbach> let's do it in any case :)
<xnox> will that be the first one in raring ? =)
<Laney> sure
<Laney> it's a good side activity while i'm breaking the archive
<Laney> muhahaha
<xnox> Laney: well we can agreed on what to break next ;-)
 * tumbleweed adjurns to the pub, where I'll stick my nose into the meeting
<dholbach> shall we?
<ScottK> Here or -meeting?
 * Laney points over there
<dholbach> MOTU Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<aboudreault> with dpkg-deb -I mypackage.deb. I see: Depends: ....., libproj0,
<aboudreault> how can I get it to put libproj0 (>= 4.8) ?
<aboudreault> I specified my version in the build-depends on my control...
<TheLordOfTime> aboudreault, in the control file, under Depends, make sure it says libproj0 (>= 4.8)
<aboudreault> well, we use: ${shlibs:Depends},
<aboudreault> I see a lot of other dep packages that are with their version number, why not libproj0?
<TheLordOfTime> if you want it to define a specific minimum requirement for libproj0, add it yourself.
<aboudreault> but why other packages are ok? ie. libgeos-c1 (>= 3.3.3)
<aboudreault> with only shlibs
<TheLordOfTime> isnt shlibs:Depends 's output an automated detection system...?
<TheLordOfTime> or something.
<aboudreault> yes.
<aboudreault> trying to see why it works for all other packages
<aboudreault> my control file: http://pastebin.com/zp0nwdP4
<aboudreault> and the dpkg-deb -I output: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libcurl3-gnutls (>= 7.16.2-1), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libfribidi0 (>= 0.19.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgd2-xpm (>= 2.0.36~rc1~dfsg), libgdal1 (>= 1.9.0), libgeos-c1 (>= 3.3.3), libgif4 (>= 4.1.4), libjpeg8 (>= 8c), libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.13-4), libpq5, libproj0, libstdc++6 (>= 4.2.1), libxml2 (>= 2.7.4)
<Laney> libproj doesn't call dh_makeshlibs with -V and doesn't have a symbols file or other override, so its reverse dependencies don't get versioned deps
<TheLordOfTime> Laney, for versioned deps, it'd need to be explicitly defined, righit?
<TheLordOfTime> (i.e. the packager defines it manually?)
<TheLordOfTime> for that one dependency (libproj)
<aboudreault> Laney, this would be IN the proj package?
<Laney> right
<Laney> why do you need the version?
<aboudreault> because we did an upgrade.... but now my package thinks that the old libproj0 is OK... but it isn't
<highvoltage> o/
<aboudreault> since the ABI changed.
<highvoltage> (that's a hello, for disambiguation purposes)
<aboudreault> highvoltage, that's not a hello, it means you have a question. thanks for the explanation :P
<aboudreault> Laney, well... another package (that works) just call dh_makeshlibs -- -c0, and proj call dh_makeshlibs -a
<ScottK> aboudreault: If the abi changed, it should have a new soname.
<Laney> I suppose he means new symbols
<ScottK> Maybe.
<aboudreault> it's new package, from 4.7 -> 4.8
<ScottK> At least a new soversion.
<aboudreault> I see
<Laney> aboudreault: does that other package have a debian/*.symbols file?
<aboudreault> no it doesn't
<Laney> what is it?
<aboudreault> ?
<Laney> which package
<aboudreault> *proj*
<Laney> the one that you say works
<aboudreault> *gdal* works
<aboudreault> gdal has .symbols file
<Laney> that'll be why
<Laney> you might like to submit a patch for proj to give it a symbols file
<mitya57> dholbach: can I commit this to u-p-g: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1394918/?
<mitya57> hey btw :)
<dholbach> mitya57, sure, feel free to run 'make gettext' at the same time
<aboudreault> Laney, .symbols file have to be generated manually?
<dholbach> mitya57, how did the ppa builds of sphinx go? did you copy them over to the packaging guide ppa?
<Laney> aboudreault: there are tools to help - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols
<aboudreault> Laney, yes, but should I add this IN my debian/rules, or simply add the symbol files myself?
<Laney> you need to create a symbols file yourself and put that into debian/
<Laney> the build system will then check if new symbols appear/disappear by looking at that file
<Laney> and then you amend things as necessary
<mitya57> dholbach, I managed to upload it to my ppa only today, not built yet
<aboudreault> Laney, ok, we'll give this a try
<dholbach> mitya57, gotcha
<mitya57> dholbach, for some reason ubuntu tarball of sphinx is not really dfsg and contains files that were removed in debian
<dholbach> hum - did it get uploaded in Ubuntu first?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> hm
<dholbach> it was introduced to Ubuntu through https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sphinx/1.1.3+dfsg-2ubuntu1
<mitya57> I see, yes
<dholbach> so theoretically the tarball should not differ from Debian
<micahg> mitya57: are you sure it's the tarball and not some source format 3 silly reversion?
<mitya57> micahg: well, md5sums on packages.debian.org and packages.ubuntu.com differ...
<micahg> mitya57: ah, that's annoying...
<Laney> what's the right BD for --with python2?
 * Laney again shows his ignorance of all things cool
<Laney> 'python'?
<micahg> Laney: one of many...
<Laney> that package appears to have Sequence/python2.pm
<micahg> Laney: from the Debian wiki: Bump minimum required python-all (or python, python-dev, python-all-dev) package version to 2.6.6-3~
<micahg>     (read /usr/share/doc/python/changelog.Debian.gz to check if you need a newer version)
<Laney> heh
<tumbleweed> that's the version I use. You can get away with a slightly lower version in Ubuntu
<tumbleweed> but I think that's only useful for releases that are no longer supported
<Laney> ta
<micahg> tumbleweed: lucid is quite supported :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: no dh_python2 on lucid
<tumbleweed> it first appeared in maverick, with a version lower than 2.6.6-3~ IIRC
<micahg> tumbleweed: exactly :)
<micahg> it prevents stuff from breaking on lucid
<mitya57> dholbach, it decided to not build on precise: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124426398/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.sphinx_1.1.3%2Bdfsg-5ubuntu1~ppa1~12.04_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mitya57> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/124426398/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-i386.sphinx_1.1.3%2Bdfsg-5ubuntu1~ppa1~12.04_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mitya57> AssertionError: latex exited with return code 1
<dholbach> mitya57, I think we have a bug open about it, might be good to follow up on there with a link to the build log
<mitya57> dholbach, which bug?
<Rcart_> hello there, I'm working on a bug present since 11.10: bug 943195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 943195 in xpdf (Ubuntu) "xpdf.real crashed with SIGSEGV in GooHash::hash()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/943195
<Rcart> the bug is reported in upstream, with patch available but not applied
<dholbach> mitya57, I would need to go and find it
<Rcart> I've successfuly applied the patch in precise, and the bug is corrected
<dholbach> mitya57, ok, we might need a new bug - it's gone :)
<mitya57> where was it at least â on LP or on bitbucket?
<Rcart> and I would like to know if that fix is could be a SRU
<dholbach> on LP - I believe it was a packaging guide bug, as it was mostly just relevant to us and our PPA
<mitya57> dholbach, the version currently in ppa (-4ubuntu4) built on precise
<mitya57> and I don't see anything in -5 changelog that could cause the failure
<dholbach> mh, no idea right now
<mitya57> I'll now try to add l10n_fixes.diff to that (built) version and try to build that
<mitya57> Rcart, it would be good to have that SRUed but the fix needs to land in raring first
<dholbach> thanks mitya57
<dholbach> I'll have to rush out in a bit
<dholbach> so thanks again for your work on this!
<mitya57> I'll copy the quantal version now anyway
<dholbach> thanks mitya57
<Rcart> mitya57: in raring, the patch available (in debian) for that xpdf specific version rejects
<mitya57> Rcart, so you should fix that I think
<Rcart> a SRU cannot fit a previous release while not fixed in development version?
<Laney> hahaha
<Laney> xnox: so it /was/ the wrong week (-motu@)
<xnox> Laney: I don't know who broke the order (UDS?), it's in my calendar for this week....
<mitya57> Rcart, yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
 * micahg thought so
<Laney> oh well
<micahg> xnox: your calendar doesn't take into account 5 Thursday months :)
<xnox> micahg: it does.
<xnox> micahg: unless there are special rules around motu meetings and 5 thursday months =)
<micahg> xnox: yes, we skip the 5th Thursday :0
<Rcart> mitya57: Ok, thanks (:
<aboudreault> does anyone have tested the open build service ?
<cody-somerville> I've played with it.
<aboudreault> cody-somerville, how is it? does it build proper source packages for official debian/ubuntu etc??
<cody-somerville> No, the source packages are not proper the last time I checked.
<cody-somerville> You have to upload sort of a hybrid thing.
<cody-somerville> and the repository it creates is flat
<aboudreault> I see
<cody-somerville> The service overall has some really great features though
<cody-somerville> and there's some integration with the Suse Studio image build service as well which is real nice
<jtaylor> is it normal that mongodb fills your disk when you start it? ...
<jtaylor> now where did it puts its junk ...
<alo21> hi all
<alo21> I have a problem to build doc-debian
<alo21> this is the make file http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1397706/
<alo21> when i run pbuilder, I got this error: ERROR: Cannot find ~/debian/www/webwml/english to regenerate the sources. Please read the TODO.
<alo21> and as you notice, this error is handled into the makefile
<micahg> alo21: that should've been fixed with http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=690791
<ubottu> Debian bug 690791 in doc-debian "building from source an inconvenient process" [Important,Fixed]
<alo21> micahg: weird
<alo21> micahg: what do you suggest?
<micahg> idk, no time to look into it
<aboudreault> Laney, it works! Thanks a lot
<bdrung> cjwatson: which kind of packages build depend on devscripts?
<bdrung> what do they need from devscripts?
#ubuntu-motu 2012-11-30
<ScottK> bdrung: $ reverse-depends -b devscripts|grep -c \* says 282 for a quantity.  It seems to be a wide variety of things.
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning :)
<geser> good morning
<bkerensa> dholbach: so the adding of the ubuntu changes by submittodebian this is in fact a bug or intentional of the tool?
<dholbach> if you work on 1.2.3-4ubuntu2, submittodebian will include the changes of 1.2.3-4ubuntu1 as well
<bkerensa> but if I am bzr branch debian:package name I am not working on 1.2.4.-4ubuntu2 but instead am working with upstreams source package and yet in these cases it still drops ubuntu changes into it
<dholbach> it might be that submittodebian always uses the last ubuntu revision to diff against and not care about bzr branches overly much
<dholbach> in that case just      bzr diff > ~/patch
<dholbach> and submit this on your own (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs)
<bdrung> ScottK: how many have "build-depends: @cdbs@" in control.in?
<bdrung> ScottK: see my comments in debian bug #694760
<ubottu> Debian bug 694760 in devscripts "devscripts: Please mark Multi-Arch: foreign" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/694760
<bdrung> ScottK: the only valid reverse dependency is bzr-builddeb (using dch)
<hrw> Rhonda: hi
<cjwatson> bdrung: I didn't really look since I don't care about the reasons :)
<cjwatson> bdrung: why argue?  M-A: foreign would be harmless
<bdrung> cjwatson: because you actually mention two issues: multiarch and build dependencies on devscripts
<cjwatson> bdrung: it doesn't hurt to M-A: foreign random things with no architecture-dependent interfaces, regardless of the reasons
<bdrung> cjwatson: agreed. i was just commenting that package build depend on devscripts, which is wrong IMO
<cjwatson> I don't care about that - I'm just trying to unblock as many cross-build issues as I can
<cjwatson> the more things we unblock with strategic multiarching, the more we get to find out about real per-package issues
<cjwatson> if you require us to change cdbs, then it'll be months or years before we can find out whether those packages cross-build once their dependencies are satisfied
<cjwatson> sure, by all means try to reduce the build-dep graph - I'd just like that to be done in parallel with this
<bdrung> cjwatson: they are two different issues. i will commit your fix.
<cjwatson> thanks
<bdrung> cjwatson: how import is that fix? do you think we will get a unblock request granted?
<cjwatson> I wouldn't expect the Debian release team to consider it important for wheezy
<Laney> aboudreault: great news. will you submit the fix to ubuntu/debian?
<bdrung> cjwatson: ok, then i will commit it into our master branch (will be in the next upload to experimental)
<cjwatson> I'd like to have it for raring
<cjwatson> ta
<bdrung> cjwatson: done: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=devscripts/devscripts.git;a=commitdiff;h=ae4fb54bdeb59649bcf89103d73bcf97b0dbd81b
<bdrung> cjwatson: when is feature freeze?
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
<bdrung> okay, still enough time to do the experimental upload
<Rhonda> hrw: hmm?
<hrw> Rhonda: packages.ubuntu.com question - why it does not list armhf/armel packages?
<Rhonda> Because noone told me it should?
<hrw> Rhonda: :)
<Rhonda> Since which release are they to be included?
<hrw> Rhonda: armel was lucid->quantal, armhf precise->raring
<Rhonda> Hmm, I don't se a Contents-armel.gz or Contents-armhf.gz in *any* release?
<Rhonda> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/
<Laney> lives on the ports archive
<Laney> ports.ubuntu.com
<hrw> Rhonda: http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/
<Rhonda> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/ also only lists binary-amd64 and binary-i386
<Rhonda> Well, if it's ports and not official archs â¦
<hrw> and here we have standard problem ;)
<Laney> it's various hysterical raisins - armhf is pretty supported (moreso than powerpc, which packages does already list)
<hrw> each time when I ask why arm is still on ports everyone dissapear
<Rhonda> If I would include ports I probably should include armel, armhf, hppa, ia64, lpia, powerpc and sparc, the full suite?
<Rhonda> ah, that was hardy.
<hrw> Rhonda: armel, armhf, powerpc only - rest died already
<Laney> armel already did too?
<Laney> depends how much work you want to do for non-current series
<hrw> Laney: in raring yes.
<hrw> lucid had sparc but oneiric didn't
<hrw> but I have no idea was sparc supported at all
<hrw> hi infinity
<Rhonda> So if I could get some sort of "official" statement which archs from ports should be listed â¦  I could try to add them.
<Rhonda> Or if I should just pull all from ports that are available for the releases, that's fine with me too
<infinity> Rhonda: The latter.
<infinity> Rhonda: It's more useful for people to be able to see everything.  Much like packages.d.o shows debian-ports stuff, even if it's "unofficial".
<Laney> Yeah, you might as well do that
<Rhonda> Will take me a bit.  We have "ports" support in the packages code on packages.debian.org, so there's not too much to do here, I just have to give it a good whack at the right spot to make it work properly.
<infinity> We don't actually treat our ports as second-class citizens.
<Laney> it must already be working for .u.c somehow because powerpc
<infinity> If they can just be mushed together into one, that would be nice.
<infinity> (On ftpmaster, it's all one archive, we only split it for mirrors)
<Rhonda> weeeelllll
<Rhonda> And packages.debian.org seemingly only shows ports for unstable
<Rhonda> Laney: Where do you see powerpc listed?
<Laney> Search the contents of packages -> architecture
<Rhonda> Right, but there are no packages therein
<Laney> perhaps it's listed but doesn't work - i didn't try a search :-)
<Rhonda> packages.ubuntu.com/irssi does list powerpc only at the top as selection (together with armel, FWIW)
<infinity> The links at the top seem to have not much to do with functionality of the site. :)
<Rhonda> Ah, wait, it has "arch all" packages for hardy in its list  :P
<Rhonda> s/for hardy //
<infinity> Rhonda: Just combining dists from archive and ports should DTRT.
<infinity> Rhonda: Perhaps even almost magically, though I've never looked at the packages.d.o code. :/
<infinity> (Though, I guess the links to "download this package" would still need love..)
<Rhonda> What was the hostname again, sulfur was the old one :)
<Rhonda> jubany
 * Laney sheds a tear for sulfur
<infinity> jubany was quite the upgrade...
<infinity> Unless it got stripped down before it was given to you.
<Rhonda> I would have liked to help, but I never heard anything back to my canonical sysadmin application.  :P
<infinity> That used to launchpad's master postgresql instance.
<aboudreault> Laney, yes, we are already committers in DebianGIS
 * Laney discovers that you can hover over package names in Launchpad bugs and get some useful information
<robottinosino> I am having problems with texlive-base (http://paste.ubuntu.com/1400458/), I am assuming this is a common issue? Saw a few bugs filed about this..
<tumbleweed> Laney: it's less useful than you think, though. last upload is often not what you want to see
<robottinosino> Is this a bug? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1400458/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/1400609/
<tumbleweed> why does this remind me of askubuntu.com? :)
<tumbleweed> robottinosino: all we can see is that the last thing executed was /etc/libpaper.d/texlive-base - that's the next thing to investigate
<robottinosino> sounds great. :) if you can guide me, I am here to troubleshoot this :)
<robottinosino> i honestly think this may be common to many machines, not just mine
<robottinosino> dpkg status gives me this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1400638/
<tumbleweed> robottinosino: set -x in /etc/libpaper.d/texlive-base and run it
<robottinosino> (Status: install ok half-configured) - sure, will do...
<robottinosino> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1400645/
<robottinosino> I have seen more than one bug related to this (example: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=648278 from askubuntu, which you know - but there are others)
<ubottu> Debian bug 648278 in texlive-base "texlive-base fails to install" [Serious,Fixed]
<robottinosino> solution does not work for me, is it possible?
<tumbleweed> doesn't look related to me
<robottinosino> Well, sorry for steering the issue away from the right path then. I apologise.
<robottinosino> tumbleweed: are you able to reproduce it? the (Status: install ok half-configured)  I mean
<tumbleweed> robottinosino: no, can't reproduce it
<tumbleweed> that last command sholud have returned a4, don't know why it didn't
<robottinosino> does it help to get a list of my installed packages?
<robottinosino> do i do that with a `dpkg --get-selections` ?
<tumbleweed> doubt it. I can't see anything obvious, and don't really know much about the tex / papersize bits
<robottinosino> None of these issues/bugs are related? https://www.google.es/search?q="dpkg-query+--status+texlive-base"
<tumbleweed> it'd be easy enough to make it install (you can exit 0 early in /etc/libpaper.d/texlive-base ), but I still don't know why it's failing
<robottinosino> very odd. :(
<robottinosino> tumbleweed: thanks for your help anyway
<jtaylor> if a sru depends on another sru do I have to put in versioned (build-) depends?
<ScottK> If it will FTBFS on the older version no.  If it will misbuild, yes.
<ScottK> b-d versioning shouldn't be about bugs or archive skew, but sometimes you have no choice.
<jtaylor> why not for ftbs?
<ScottK> Because then you could just retry it
<ScottK> No harm done.
<ScottK> If it will misbuild with the older one, then add the version limit to avoid a misbuild.
<jtaylor> so its not like e.g debian exp were it will use unstable unless its versioned?
<ScottK> Correct.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-01
<jbicha> yay, now we have 20 MATE "needs-packaging" bugs
<achiang> hello, how does one recover from trying to install bad packages using dpkg -i ?
<achiang> like, dpkg -i <foo> won't install due to broken or missing deps... is there a way to say, "ok, i take it back" ?
<jbicha> achiang: if you didn't --force it and it didn't install then I don't think there is anything to take back; otherwise you can apt-get remove
 * achiang admits to trying --force-all :-/
<achiang> on libgtk2.0 :(
<jbicha> friendly advice: don't do that next time :)
<jbicha> apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0 will tell you what versions are available and then you can apt-get install libgtk2.0-0=2.24.13-0ubuntu2 to get the version you actually want
<achiang> trying that now
<achiang> woof, that was not fun, but i seem to be ok now
<jtaylor> xnox: how often are adt tests imported to jenkins?
<jtaylor> bug 1085082 can be synced, forgot to check if its main before test building it ._.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085082 in lapack (Ubuntu) "Sync lapack 3.4.2-1~exp3 (main) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1085082
<jtaylor> and the price for most horrendous autopkgtest goes to ... this piece of junk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1402210/
<jtaylor> but it works :) (if mongodb doesn'T decide to thrash the machine)
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: done
<jtaylor> your a coredev now? :O
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: I got tired of paperwork a few months ago, and applied
<jtaylor> does someone have a script to check if any package links against a certain symbol?
<jtaylor> came up with this, suggestions welcome http://paste.ubuntu.com/1402543/
<ScottK> Seems like a general problem that it'd be nice to have a solution to in devscripts/u-d-t.
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> including a database of required symbols somewhere
<jtaylor> as you usually can't install all rdeps at once :/
<ScottK> Would it be easier to download source and search that?
<jtaylor> if macros or c++ is involved that gets difficult
<jtaylor> is there a tool to download debs?
<jtaylor> pull-lp-debs <source-name>
<ScottK> Not AFAIK.
<jtaylor> someone know where the official place to search for fedora rpm specs?
<jtaylor> i just find random rpm searches that give all kind of results
<ScottK> There's a fedora git for such things.  I don't recall the location.
<alo21> hi... can someone help me merging a package?
<alo21> afk
<bobweaver> alo21,  I can give some help what are you trying to to do ? what packages ect
<bobweaver> or are you looking for someone to look at a proposal ?
<alo21> bobweaver, I'm trying to merge doc-debian..
<alo21> here is the makefike: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1397706/
<alo21> rule: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1397802/
<alo21> and build log: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1397805/
<bobweaver> I am not the person for that one others will see though alo21
<xnox> jtaylor: there is a trigger job, that picks up the adt tests. So the source package must be fully packaged and available on the mirrors and then after ~1h delay it should be picked up by jenkins.
<xnox> jtaylor: which package are you after?
<xnox> (there are some further delays for jenkins to run the job and mirror it to the public instance....)
<jtaylor> xnox: foolscap
<xnox> jtaylor: that will never be picked up, as the package doesn't declare to have any tests.
<jtaylor> whats missing?
<xnox> jtaylor:  XS-Testsuite: autopkgtest in debian/control
<xnox> jtaylor: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep8/ see current specification link from there.
<jtaylor> must have missed that, thanks
<jtaylor> is network allowed during autopkgtests?
<xnox> jtaylor: define network.
<jtaylor> load stuff from the outside net
<xnox> jtaylor: define outside net. There are packages that start a webserver on the localhost and put files there and then exercise "over the network" in the package.
<jtaylor> network that is not localhost
<xnox> jtaylor: dep8 is ambigious about this. In practice you do have internet connection to ubuntu archive in jenkins as run in our lab.
<xnox> jtaylor: can you please tell me what you actually want to test?
<jtaylor> e.g. a package reads stuff from yahoo to test if that works
<xnox> jtaylor: think about it - doing test $ ping www.google.com is not good, in case google.com goes down & is unreachable. And that does not mean that test is flawed.
<jtaylor> I know
<jtaylor> but probably the spec should be ambigous about this
<jtaylor> there are plenty upstream tests that phone out
<xnox> jtaylor: oh, the primary use case for the package to scrap webpages & you want to know when yahoo changes its website and scrape fails?!
<xnox> jtaylor: I am failing to see why foolscap needs to talk to yahoo.
<jtaylor> foolscap doesn't
<xnox> jtaylor: so which package need yahoo?
<jtaylor> this is what is tested http://www.statalgo.com/2011/09/08/pandas-getting-financial-data-from-yahoo-fred-etc/
<jtaylor> it can easily be disabled, i'm jsut wondering if I need to
<xnox> jtaylor: try and see if it works.
<xnox> jtaylor: but yahoo exports yahoo financial api, so it could potentially talk to yahoo test instance
<xnox> jtaylor: or to cache and serve data locally (mock)
<jtaylor> yes mocking is the proper way to do it
<xnox> jtaylor: also if we do run it jenkins, and spam yahoo with it, they may block us.
<jtaylor> so disable or not`?
<xnox> jtaylor: also note that autopkgtests are run: when the package changes, or when one of it's dependencies change.
<xnox> jtaylor: we don't run adt daily, so if yahoo breaks you might not notice it as quickly as you'd think.
<jtaylor> I don't really care if yahoo breaks
<jtaylor> I'll just disable it
<jtaylor> the functionality is not yahoo specific, its just the provider used for the test
<bobweaver> one day I will either make a poem about this channel or a song .
<bobweaver> Watch Out
<jokerdino> chrisccoulson: hey. is it possible to enable the Firefox nightly PPA for raring as well? Thanks.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-12-02
<jtaylor> micahg: ping ipython backport
<micahg> jtaylor: hi, sorry, will try to take a look at bit later todya
<TheLordOfTime> Is "Would like to have an updated version of $package in $release" a valid backport reason?
<jtaylor> depends on the impact
<TheLordOfTime> universe package ZNC
<TheLordOfTime> an IRC boucner.
<jtaylor> if no rdepends thats probably fine
<TheLordOfTime> what's the command to check for rdeps again?
<TheLordOfTime> oh wait
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: as long as you do the reverse dependency testing, sure
<TheLordOfTime> requestbackport... the message says this (havent filed yet): No reverse dependencies
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, how thorough is requestbackport's rdeps checking?
<micahg> should be pretty thorough
<TheLordOfTime> okay, i've filed the backport request for ZNC (to Quantal), and i plan on testing it in about an hour and a half after i'm back at home.  (build tests already were done though :P)
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, for packages with debug symbols, is it OK to just check and see if it installs?  Kinda hard to test debug symbols for whether it runs...
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: yeah, that's fine
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantal-backports/+bug/1085731  <-- all's checked, but if you're not busy, got a question (on a bug I referenced in the backport bug)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1085731 in Quantal Backports "Please backport znc 1.0-1 (universe) from raring" [Undecided,New]
 * xnox ponders if I should be excited or cautious....
 * xnox runs znc
<TheLordOfTime> its IRC bouncer software :P
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: depending on build-essential is wrong
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, then what should it depend on?
<TheLordOfTime> other than the compilers?
<TheLordOfTime> (which, right now, i don't have the list for)
<micahg> you can depend on non-default compiler versions if need be
<micahg> but that also seems wrong for a dev package
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, the -dev package contains the binary znc-buildmod
<TheLordOfTime> which depends on the compilers
<micahg> a dev package just provides headers for other programs to use to build somethin else
<TheLordOfTime> it's not a standard "dev" package
<xnox> TheLordOfTime: does it ship source code?
<TheLordOfTime> indeed, but znc-dev isn't written that way
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, for ZNC?  it does.
<TheLordOfTime> xnox, znc-buildmod is built in the build process.
<micahg> if you're building, you'll have build-essential installed or you're doing it wrong
<TheLordOfTime> its installed with znc-deb
<TheLordOfTime> znc-dev
<TheLordOfTime> *
<TheLordOfTime> i'm not the writer of the package.
<xnox> micahg: I bet it's something crazy like dkms modules.
<TheLordOfTime> take it up with the debian maintainer, its updated there.
 * xnox goes to pull-debian-source
 * micahg waits for the Debian bug to be closed as won't fix...
<micahg> hrm, a dev package shipping a bin file...
<micahg> TheLordOfTime: we ship a compiler by default for dkms like purposes
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, in *all* ubuntu ISOs?
<TheLordOfTime> micahg, last i checked it doesn't install automagicallty
<micahg> from Precise: apt-cache show gcc | grep Task
<micahg> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop-kde, xubuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-master, ubuntustudio-desktop
<stgraber> IIRC it's in /pool so only installed if the installer detects the need for one of the dkms drivers
<TheLordOfTime> then this is not satisfactory, given that: IF (gcc / g++ != installed all the time to all systems by default) THEN (znc's module-builder will not correctly work unless its installer package (znc-dev at the moment) is dependent on the compilers or dependent on build-essential)
<micahg> hrm, well, I guess it can't be any worse than dkms (which has an alternate build dependency on build-essential)
<TheLordOfTime> I'm going to talk via email with the debian maintainer to see whether they'd be willing to move away from the name of the "-dev" package and change it to something else, or include the module builder as part of just 'znc'
<micahg> yeah, you'd probably want to break out the module building into another package
<TheLordOfTime> its in -dev now
<micahg> right
<TheLordOfTime> i suggested a rename to them of -dev to -buildmod
<micahg> well, -dev is still useful for in archive headers building
<TheLordOfTime> well, we'll see what they say.
<TheLordOfTime> in any case, that's the only open bug against it, fixable with a manual install of build-essential
<TheLordOfTime> although i run an after-install script that pulls that in anyways for my VMs/containers/systems, so... :P
<TheLordOfTime> (among other packages)
 * micahg guesses depending on build-essential isn't as crazy as previously thought
<micahg> right, it's build depending that would be very wrong (but there's still one package that does it)
<TheLordOfTime> true, but its depending, not builddepping on it
<TheLordOfTime> since the builders autopull compilers anyways, no?
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-25
<dholbach> good morning
<xteejx> Hey guys, back in the Ubuntu stuff, have been away for quite a while but want to get back into helping with merges and stuff, but this UDD thing is a bit confusing. PS Hi!
<xteejx> Is the rough workflow the same?
<rbasak> xteejx: using UDD is optional. If you're familiar with a different workflow, you can do that and just attach a debdiff to a bug for sponsoring.
<rbasak> xteejx: for merges, attach a debdiff against the current ubuntu packaging as well as a debdiff against the debian packaging you're updating against.
<xteejx> the old way still works then? cool, thanks rbasak
<xteejx> Assume the new uploads get integrated into the bzr branches anyhow?
<rbasak> xteejx: yes. The bzr branches automatically import new uploaded packages.
<xteejx> rbasak, Heh, sounds pretty simple
<xteejx> Q: Why does grab-merge.sh want to keep deleting everything in the directory?
<cjwatson> grab-merge.sh is just an example - feel free to write your own
<xteejx> oh bugger, what's the old tool for grabbing all the merge stuff from ubuntu and debian, I'm a little rusty?
<cjwatson> oh, you mean grab-merge not grab-merge.sh I guess
<Laney> grab-merge from ubuntu-dev-tools doesn't do that
<cjwatson> $ grep -w rm /usr/bin/grab-merge
<cjwatson>     rm -rf  --one-file-system *
<xteejx> d'oh ;)
<cjwatson> I just use pull-debian-source and pull-lp-source, personally
<cjwatson> usually don't find the tools above that worth the effort
<Laney> huh, what case is that?
<cjwatson> Laney: the default for everyone except those with accounts on merges.ubuntu.com ...
<Laney> ...
<cjwatson> line 64
<xteejx> umm... xorp looks like a sync job to me, but as I say, I'm a little rusty, can any of you wonderful people have a quick check please before I file a sync bug?
<xteejx> or for a sync, can I just use bzr and do a sync that was (no permissions here)
<xteejx> *way
<Laney> oh I see, it creates a subdirectory by default
<Laney> you have to enable rsync explicitly
<Laney> and prompts for the deletion
<Laney> (so it's the case in which you have a subdirectory named after the argument to grab-merge)
<mitya57> dholbach: Do you know what happened to http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/? There is no more overview of packaging-guide languages thereâ¦
<mitya57> dholbach: Do you know what happened to http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/tools/packaging/? There is no more overview of packaging-guide languages thereâ¦
<dholbach> mitya57, yes, I know - it's been problematic in WP somehow - I filed a request with IS to move it to packaging.u.c and place a bunch of rewrite rules, so we can stop maintaining it in WP and everyhting
<dholbach> that should make things a lot easier
<mitya57> That would be great, thanks
<mitya57> I will try to update links everywhere when it
<mitya57> *when it's moved
<dholbach> yep, I'll let you know!
<zyga> hi
<zyga> what is the package to hang the 'needs packaging' but off from, I'm trying to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<zyga> I've filed a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1254831 for 'plainbox' to be packaged
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1254831 in Ubuntu "plainbox needs packaging" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> zyga: seems right
<zyga> Laney: thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-26
<zyga> hi
<zyga> do I need to assign my 'foo package needed' bug to any particular project or package?
<zyga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1254831
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1254831 in Ubuntu "plainbox needs packaging" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> zyga: no, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<Laney> also it'd be nice to submit it to debian mentors / DPMT
<zyga> Laney: actually that situation is changed now
<zyga> Laney: I got write access to the shared SVN repo on DPMT
<zyga> Laney: and my sid package got a few review iterations now
<zyga> Laney: so I guess we want to not go through motu but instead sync it from debian, correct?
<Laney> zyga: yes, definitely
<Laney> or upload from SVN if you want it in urgently
<zyga> Laney: upload from SVN?
<zyga> Laney: I'm doing one more modification to include the man page and I'll upload it to svn
<Laney> yes, like take a snapshot
<Laney> but I think they're quite fast at sponsoring / reviewing over in DPMT usually so that probably won't be necessary
<zyga> Laney: I didn't understand what you mean by 'upload *from* svn'? upload to where? ubuntu?
<Laney> yes
<zyga> ah
<zyga> I didn't know that is possible, I'm still quite new to this process
<Laney> well, you just build a source package out of the VCS and give it the right version number to upload to Ubuntu
<zyga> Laney: assuming it gets into the debian svn today, how long will it take it for the package to migrate to ubuntu?
<zyga> Laney: (I also prepared 14.04 specific package with ubuntu1 suffix and different standards-version
<Laney> <time in NEW> + 1 day-ish
<zyga> Laney: new is 2 weeks?
<zyga> Laney: and subsequent releases after that? we're likely to release the package and update it in debian bi-weekly
<Laney> not sure what they're looking at atm
<zyga> ah
<Laney> yeah, a few hours to a day - not long
<zyga> Laney: ok, this sounds great
<Laney> after debian import freeze you need to request the syncs yourself though
<zyga> Laney: what about standards version mismatch? will we sync to get 3.9.5 in trusty?
<Laney> zyga: we usually don't bother changing that over Debian
<zyga> Laney: ah, so lintian will complain but nothing breaks?
<Laney> it's just for information really
<vood> Hello, I have next question - what steps should I do, if I want to add my package in ubuntu repo ?
<nobuto> I need some love to my backport request here: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252729 It would be appreciated if someone takes a look.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1252729 in raring-backports "Please backport jq 1.2-8 (universe) from saucy" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ockham> hi, i'm currently trying to create a cowbuilder environment (under 13.10, ~/.pbuilderrc here: http://pastebin.com/7qmH3td1) -- which fails with:
<ockham> W: Failed to fetch file:/var/cache/archive/saucy/Packages  File not found
<ockham> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<ockham> (the latter referring to an earlier line:)
<ockham> Err file: saucy/ Packages
<ockham>   File not found
<ockham> any clue what's going on here?
<quidnunc> Backporting packages is always a nightmare: Why am I getting "Dependency is not satisfiable: gyp (>= 0.1~svn1654)" when trying to backport nodejs to precise?
<quidnunc> backportpackage -Urbw $PWD nodejs
<cjwatson> Because precise doesn't have that version of gyp
<cjwatson> $ rmadison -s precise gyp
<cjwatson>  gyp | 0.1~svn1031-1 | precise/universe | source, all
<quidnunc> cjwatson: Ah, I didn't notice subversion
<quidnunc> cjwatson: thanks
<quidnunc> and also f*ck
<cjwatson> So I guess you'd need to backport gyp as well
<quidnunc> sub-version number*
<cjwatson> Or figure out how to weaken the dependency, although that's more intrusive for a backport
<ari-tczew> quidnunc: you can try to minimize that version in B-D
<quidnunc> cjwatson: Always fun going down that rabbit hole
<quidnunc> what is B-D
<quidnunc> ?
<ari-tczew> Build-Depends
<cjwatson> And sourceful changes require significantly more review than simple backports
<ari-tczew> (see debian/control file)
<quidnunc> non-official
<quidnunc> ari-tczew: Right, I've never seen that abbreviation
<ari-tczew> s/gyp (>= 0.1~svn1654)/gyp
<cjwatson> But first check why it's there ...
<cjwatson> Versioned relationships generally aren't introduced just for fun
<ari-tczew> of course
<ari-tczew> then see debian/changelog
<ari-tczew> also, I look often for changes in certain files through Bazaar. Might be easier for you, as well.
<quidnunc> When running pdebuild I get --> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies. Are those build dependencies on my host or the pbuilder image?
<cjwatson> In the chroot
<quidnunc> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs dh-buildinfo libv8-3.14-dev (>= 3.7) libc-ares-dev (>= 1.7.5)
<quidnunc> Why is it complaining about cdbs?
<quidnunc> (Also I said precise but I'm building for raring)
<cjwatson> You may not get accurate results as soon as one of your build-deps is uninstallable
<cjwatson> In this case, libv8-3.14-dev is only available from saucy on - perhaps try libv8-dev instead?
<quidnunc> cjwatson: But at least one of those is the problem right?
<cjwatson> (assuming that's sufficient)
<cjwatson> Yes, libv8-3.14-dev is the problem
<cjwatson> At least that's how it looks from a quick examination of the archive
<quidnunc> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs dh-buildinfo libv8-dev libc-ares-dev
<quidnunc> alright I give up
<quidnunc> I'll just install from source
<cjwatson> Of course it could also be the pbuilder base image being broken or pbuilder just generally being terrible; I don't know, I don't use pbuilder :-)
<quidnunc> Dependency hell has made a comeback: Developers can't use system packages for any dev platform (python, ruby, node, haskell) as they have effectively shunned distro packaging in lieu of their own packaging managers and it is very difficult to build system packages.
<cjwatson> I've no interest in a philosophical debate on the subject I'm afraid
<cjwatson> At least not without beer
<quidnunc> just ranting. Worse is better these days
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-27
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> dholbach: Morning.  And just to repeat myself, thanks for your mixtapes. :)
<dholbach> Rhonda, thanks - I'm glad you like them :)
<Rhonda> Hmm.  Why wasn't raring named ranting.   *frowns*  :)
<highvoltage> the Ranting Rhonda?
<Rhonda> highvoltage: Don't continue our play from debconf. :)
<highvoltage> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-28
<dholbach> good morning
<zyga> dholbach: hey
<dholbach> hey zyga
<Rhonda> Hmm.  Which phablet-team PPA version works best with Debian wheezy?  ;)
<Rhonda> Seems it's lucid :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, but only for android-tools*
<Rhonda> phablet-tools not available for lucid  %-/
<Laney> Rhonda: yeah, not surprising
<Laney> you might be able to backport stuff yourself
<Laney> otherwise there are manual instructions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Download_.26_Installation
<Laney> assuming that is what you want to do
<Rhonda> Thing is, why only offer one half in the PPA and not the other?
<Laney> dunno, wasn't me guv'nor - maybe some deps are missing or whoever did the work only needed android-tools on lucid
<Rhonda> oh, android-tools are newer in wheezy-backports  *fetches*
<Rhonda> duh
<Rhonda> phablet-tool doesn't set proper Depends  :/
<Rhonda> hmm
<Laney> you might want #ubuntu-touch for this stuff BTW ;-)
<Laney> I'd expect the people who made the packages to be in there
<Rhonda> oh, wait
<Rhonda> python:any (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2)
<Rhonda> Why depends python:any instead of python
<Rhonda> Debian has python:all :)
<Laney> not in testing
<cjwatson> Rhonda: python:any is standard now in all kinds of places that python is Multi-Arch: allowed - cf. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiarchSpec
<cjwatson> Rhonda: It doesn't mean "not Architecture: all"
<Rhonda> cjwatson: dpkg thinks differently.
<cjwatson> Rhonda: It means "the package manager may follow dependencies on other architectures"
<cjwatson> Rhonda: You're misinterpreting.
<Rhonda> Well, then some frenchman has misleading error messages. :)
<cjwatson> Rhonda: wheezy's python isn't Multi-Arch: allowed, which is why this doesn't work in wheezy
<cjwatson> Rhonda: But it's not because python is Architecture: all
<cjwatson> Rhonda: For backports to releases where python isn't Multi-Arch: allowed, dropping the :any is correct, although that might well happen automatically on a rebuild
<Rhonda> Unpacking replacement phablet-tools ...
<Rhonda> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of phablet-tools:
<Rhonda>  phablet-tools depends on python:any (>= 2.7.1-0ubuntu2).
<cjwatson> Yes, and I'm repeatedly explaining to you why ...
<Rhonda> Yes, I understood it now. :)
<Rhonda> But the error message doesn't hint that way.
<cjwatson> Well, dpkg dependency error messages generally just tell you that the dep is unsatisfied and leave you to work out why.
<Rhonda> Then it should be catched in apt already, as improvement?
<cjwatson> Dunno
<Rhonda> Because dependency resolving in apt and dpkg seems to differ her.
<cjwatson> Oh, I think that's a known bug
<cjwatson> In wheezy
<cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=723586
<ubottu> Debian bug 723586 in apt "apt thinks :any dependencies are satisfied but dpkg doesn't" [Normal,Fixed]
<Rhonda> Hmm, if the diff is only 6 lines, I wonder why it wasn't pushed to wheezy. :(
<xteejx> Hey guys
<xteejx> I've done a couple of merges, subscribed the sponsors team, is there anything else I need to do?
<mitya57> xteejx: your merges are already on http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/, so they will be looked at soon
<xteejx> mitya57, oh nice one, thank you :)
<xteejx> Wasn't sure if they were being processed or whatever. Not sure sync/merging is the top priority atm but with my lack of skills in MOTU stuff I thought it best to stick to what I kind of know
<mitya57> xteejx: scipy uploaded, thanks
<bkerensa> Happy Thanksgiving :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-29
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2013-11-30
<ockham> i'm trying to set up a cowbuilder environment under saucy. it fails with
<ockham> Err file: saucy/ Packages
<ockham>   File not found
<ockham> my ~/.pbuilerrc is at http://pastebin.com/7qmH3td1
<ockham> any clue what's going wrong? or can someone try to reproduce pls?
<Ampelbein> ockham: Do you have a saucy/ folder in /var/cache/archive? (Line 76)
<ockham> Ampelbein: yeah, i do
<Ampelbein> ockham: And there is a Packages file inside?
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-24
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-25
<nanyyyyy> holaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<nanyyyyy> hay alguien
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-26
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-27
<dholbach> good morning
<profzoom> Hello!  I just created a new package containing lots of additional Unity Greeter badges.  I'm looking for comments and MOTUs to advocate the package.
<profzoom> The bug report is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1396851 and the code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~profzoom/+junk/unity-greeter-badges
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396851 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Add package containing Unity Greeter badges" [Undecided,In progress]
<johanvdw> what is the proper place to ask for a rebuild of a package in vivid
<johanvdw> The package saga didn't build on armhf due to a bug in gcc which is now fixed.
<mdeslaur> johanvdw: I'll click the retry button, one sec
<mdeslaur> johanvdw: ok, done
<johanvdw> thx!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-11-28
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-23
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-24
<dholbach> good morning
<benstrumental> Trying to decrypt a confirmation email for editing my pgp keys on LaunchPad - I put the email contents in a file, called `gpg -d` on that file and get `gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. gpg: processing message failed: eof`
<benstrumental> I have solved my problem
<benstrumental> Thank you
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-25
<benstrumental> Should the default (i.e. built from dhmake) debian/rules files call 'make' in my source directory to build the binary?
<benstrumental> I am having trouble getting my .deb built with the binary included (dh is not calling 'make' is my suspicion)
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-26
<dholbach> good morning
<teward> i assume that the PPU application process is how an upstream software maintainer would gain access to upload their package to Ubuntu?
<teward> or rather, upload directly, while their 'access' to upload for Debian is pending
#ubuntu-motu 2015-11-27
<dholbach> good morning
 * Rhonda sighs.
<Rhonda> W: Failed to fetch http://at.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty-updates/main/binary-amd64/Packages  Hash Sum mismatch
<Rhonda> I removed all the files in /var/lib/apt/lists (and in partial)
 * Rhonda redirects herself to #ubuntu
<Laney> usually fixes itself after a little while
<zzo38> Is this channel how I am supposed to add the package into Ubuntu? I wrote some programs and I would want to know if you should include in the Ubuntu package manager
<zzo38> I made up the program "dvipbm" which can be use to print stuff on a printer that require to be rasterized by computer, and is designed to be used with such program as foo2zjs and so on.
<zzo38> I also made up program such as "amigamml" and "xisynth" and "playmod" which are program relating to MOD/XM musics
<zzo38> I think AmigaMML is a better program to write the MOD/XM musics than the one you already have in the package manager, in my opinion.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-29
<kelunik> Morning. Is it possible to package tcl-tls 1.6.7 for Ubuntu 14.04 LTS as it's done for Ubuntu 16.04 LTS?
<kelunik> The current version 1.6 doesn't have TLSv1.1 and TLSv1.2 support and thus weakens TLS sessions compared to the newer versions.
<Rhonda> A backport for sure is possible - for regular update I'm unsure, though it might be acceped because it's a minor version change (hopefully just bugfixes?) and security relevant.  But neither is my personal call, just my thoughts on it.
<Rhonda> Oh, kelunik not here anymore.  Darn, should use <nick><tab> before starting to write.
<kelunik> Rhonda: SourceForge sucks for examining changes, but I think it has been SNI support, TLSv1.1, TLSv1.2 and some other bug fixes.
<kelunik> Also it seems my previous message got lost, at least it's not in the logs.
<Rhonda> kelunik: Thanks for reading the logs.  Makes me feel less silly to respond to people not online anymore. \o/
<kelunik> I hate IRC for not having automatic logs within the clients.
<kelunik> Rhonda: What's the way forward to ship that update?
#ubuntu-motu 2016-11-30
<tsimonq2> wxl: Wanna do some merges? :_)
<tsimonq2> *:)
<wxl> tsimonq2: sure. lead the way
<tsimonq2> wxl: c9.io like the good ol' days? :)
<wxl> heh okie dokie gimme a sec so i can remember how XD
<tsimonq2> wxl: Link me when you're ready. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-01
<wxl> https://ide.c9.io/wxl/sqawesomesauce XD
<tsimonq2> wxl: LOL XD
<tsimonq2> wxl: Pls gimme access
<wxl> tsimonq2: looks like it's too limited to handle lxd. gimme your infos
<tsimonq2> wxl: Ok, sec
<tsimonq2> wxl: ssh ubuntu@dev.kubuntu.co.uk -p 2202
<wxl> 1s
<wxl> gotta "go home" first
<tsimonq2> k
<tsimonq2> wxl: So how long?
<wxl> tsimonq2: is that a shared container?
<tsimonq2> wxl: No it's "mine"
<tsimonq2> Is there a better way to merging new Debian revisions while keeping the Ubuntu delta besides merging the diff from the two Debian revisions into the Ubuntu revision with the delta?
<Yawning> Hello, how are security issues with Ubuntu universe packages handled?
<rbasak> Yawning: anyone can contribute a security fix, and the security team will review and upload it if it is good. But Canonical do not make any commitment for security updates to packages in universe. Some packages in universe are very well maintained security-wise; some aren't.
<Yawning> Who should I talk to about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bubblewrap/+bug/1643734
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1643734 in bubblewrap (Ubuntu) "privilege escalation via ptrace (CVE-2016-8659)" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<Yawning> the security team told me "make a deb diff"
<Yawning> but I use neither debian, nor ubuntu
<Yawning> I write software the depends on bubblewrap, that I'd like my users to be able to run on ubuntu, but not enough to learn the intracasies of packaging, basically
<Yawning> Zesty has a newer package that contains the security fix
<rbasak> Unfortunately you need to know a little about packaging in order to prepare a security update.
<Yawning> and I probably need to also use Ubuntu
<rbasak> That would be the easiest way, yes. It is possible to do it without Ubuntu but that is non-trivial. You can however easily create a VM or machine container running Ubuntu, so you don't need to reinstall your own machine or anything.
<Yawning> yeah
<Yawning> Is this documented anywhere?
<rbasak> The "debdiff" command produces a debdiff given two source packages. So create a source package with the changes you want to ship to Ubuntu users, and then use "debdiff" to supply what you want changed to the security team.
<Yawning> ah
<rbasak> Creating a container?
<rbasak> https://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/lxd
<Yawning> no, I have that, the debdiff part
<rbasak> Or https://linuxcontainers.org/lxd/getting-started-cli/
<Yawning> so I can diff the new package in zesty, vs the old vulnerable one in yakkety and be done?
<Yawning> or is it slightly more involved than that
<rbasak> Security updates should apply *only* the security fix required and no other changes.
<Yawning> ah
<Yawning> so it's like the debian apprach
<Yawning> ok
<rbasak> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation for some documentation
<Yawning> Ok, thanks, I midht do that if I have time, but no promises
<Yawning> Sorry for the dumb questions.
#ubuntu-motu 2016-12-02
<wxl> hey folks, kubuntu is ready to upload frameworks 5.28 and plasma 5.8.4 should be done shortly. we had suggested this earlier but it took us a little extra time. anyone want to be a sponsor?
#ubuntu-motu 2017-11-29
<karstensrage> is there any way to get the apt-get update package from the USN-3455-1
<karstensrage> like some api for figuring that out
<mdeslaur> karstensrage: not really, no, we recommend always doing a full apt upgrade
<karstensrage> mdeslaur, this is for a FedRAMP environment and were worried about breaking stuff
<karstensrage> we only want the security updates that are for the box itself
<mdeslaur> karstensrage: you can disable -updates and just leave -security turned on if that helps
<mdeslaur> installing arbitrary security updates without installing all of them is an untested configuration, and is likely to break
<karstensrage> hmm ok
#ubuntu-motu 2017-11-30
<Pr0t3us> Can anyone help me? I'm attempting to setup our PPA can't figure out why it won't build our binaries.
<tsimonq2> Got a link Pr0t3us?
<Pr0t3us> https://launchpad.net/~smartcash/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Pr0t3us> Yes sorry I was googling ;p
<Pr0t3us> The packages is a cryptocurrency forked from bitcoin 0.13 codebase. It should produce 4 binaries in /usr/bin/ but it's only making the docs for some reason
<geser> Pr0t3us: my guess is that you need to modify debian/rules to call the autogen.sh script before trying to configure (and later build) your package as there is no ready configure script (only configure.ac)
<Pr0t3us> That's exactly what I need
<Pr0t3us> also how do I pass ./configure CPPFLAGS="-I${BDB_PREFIX}/include/ -O2" LDFLAGS="-L${BDB_PREFIX}/lib/" --with-gui
<Pr0t3us> What would I place with in rules to accomplish this? Also, please setup a smartcash wallet and give me your address. I'd like to tip you 500 Smart for your help! (About $25 USD)
<Pr0t3us> smartcash.cc for desktop/webwallet or just create an address on an exchange (hitbtc/cryptopia)
<Pr0t3us> Would I put this -
<Pr0t3us> override_dh_auto_configure:
<Pr0t3us>    ./autogen.sh
<Pr0t3us>    dh_auto_configure -- CPPFLAGS="-I${BDB_PREFIX}/include/ -O2" LDFLAGS="-L${BDB_PREFIX}/lib/" --with-gui
<Pr0t3us> ???
<Pr0t3us> Dammit! I remember when people still used IRC.. ahh the glory days ;p
<Pr0t3us> I figured it out... I was missing a lot of things.
