#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-29
<brousch> snap-l: i found 3 good bands due to club metal #4. i'm especially surprised that i like http://unwoman.bandcamp.com/album/unremembered
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that's an awesome album.
<snap-l> Bought that on disc because I liked it so much
<brousch> i like so few female singers
<snap-l> What were the other bands you found?
<brousch> neurotech, cryogen second
<jrwren> old Hanzel Und Gretyl is great.
<snap-l> Uber Alles is awesome
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I was really happy to have found Neurotech
<snap-l> that pretty much sealed me putting out the episode. :)
<snap-l> I want more of that sort of music
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOtjiMYUJ_s
<snap-l> unfortunatley they lost their domain
<_stink_> heh, that python fiddler thing looks really broken.
<_stink_> importing json and trying to dumps() a list causing a library traceback, and the gmail oauth isn't set up right.
<rick_h_> heh, sure it's got issues
<Wolfger> morning
<brousch> ++
<rick_h_> morjning
<rick_h_> brousch: http://pyrseas.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/dueling-frameworks/
<rick_h_> he's ranting on your flask, attack!
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> i think 0.8 due next week has the class-based thing
<brousch> and i have trouble with the database passing
<rick_h_> passing?
<rick_h_> the per request session management?
<brousch> well, passing the db variable around
<rick_h_> import it
<rick_h_> you're not doing db stuff in your controller actions are you :P
<brousch> the db connection needs the app
<brousch> and then the app needs the db
<rick_h_> hmm, maybe one day I'll check it out. I keep meaning to find an excuse to do something in flask
<rick_h_> I've had to figure it out in pylons and pyramid and command line scripts so usually able to get a handle on the stuff these adys
<brousch> flask-sqlalchemy needs the app to make the base in the models
<rick_h_> but not looked at how that flask plugin/addon works
<brousch> but then to use the db in the app, you have to import models
<brousch> it doesn't seem right to me
<rick_h_> oh, circular dep issue?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> if it's all in one file, like a very simple app, then it's fine. but when i break out models it gets ugly
<rick_h_> well normally what you find is what pylons/pyramid does
<rick_h_> the models originally are attached to a base with no db on it
<rick_h_> then there's an "init_models(engine)"
<rick_h_> that accepts a build db engine and assigns it to the base
<rick_h_> that way on initial import the models can load, but just don't talk to anything, and then at the end of your app "boot" phase, it grabs the engine data from your config and runs init_models
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/master/bookie/models/__init__.py#L44
<rick_h_> for example in bookie
<brousch> that is the biggest init.py i've ever seen
<rick_h_> yea, I'm bad, I should move the bmark stuff all out
<rick_h_> but it starts as a single models.py file
<rick_h_> and I moved it into a module and didn't clean it all up
<snap-l> good morning
<brousch> in my little cherrypy python test i was about to run into the circular issue again
<brousch> the main app has all of the config, and the model needs to access it to get the db config
<brousch> but then app needs the model to do db stuff
<brousch> so i was going to have the model access the config without going through the app, but then the config is being parsed twice, or there are two config files
<rick_h_> booo
<rick_h_> just delay, you don't need the model stuff until the ned of the app code anyway.
<rick_h_> that's what that initialize_sql thing is doing
<rick_h_> get an app up somewhere brousch and I'll edit it and show you what I mewan
<brousch> i think i see it now
<brousch> have a function in the models.py that someone else can call to create the engine
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> then the model has no need to know the config, the app can call the create_engine function with the right dburi
<rick_h_> call that  after imports and all that work is deon from your app
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> exactly
<brousch> much better
<rick_h_> and you don't end up with models dependant on a config file
<rick_h_> you can still load them via ipython, external script and just feed it an engine
<brousch> i like that
<rick_h_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~barry/flufl.enum/trunk/files/head:/flufl/enum/__init__.py?file_id=flufl-20100424151503-h6gekpiiqsaprkiu-1
<rick_h_> does that load for anyone else?
<brousch> nope
<rick_h_> k, glad it's not just me then
<rick_h_> that was kind of not unpleasant
<rick_h_> tv is cancelled, officially a cord cutter
<rick_h_> finding the number took some work, but not real pressure/hard time cancelling
<brousch> they know you'll be back
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, actually don't think I've not had cable/etc since I can remember
<rick_h_> so will be a new trial for sure
<jcastro> rick_h_: I am sans cable down here
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, with roku + ota hd I'm hoping it's enough for the wife's needs
<rick_h_> going to buy a  second roky for upstairs I think
<jcastro> I have an hdhomerun but I need an antenna, just haven't bothered
<rick_h_> roku, damn I can't type today
<rick_h_> yea, finally got an antenna and put it up in the attic this weekend
<rick_h_> works great, couple of channels look really nice
<rick_h_> crazy to think for the cost of tv service could buy a roku a month :/
<brousch> i just use the $15/mo cable service. all local channels nice and clear
<rick_h_> $99 antenna, no need for $15/mo
<rick_h_> does that still require a box brousch ?
<brousch> no
<brousch> rick_h_: bah, my Flask circular dependency is my own stupidity. i am using an application-specific path inside of my model. i can easily fix that
<rick_h_> ah, ok
<brousch> i refactored out the circular dependency and eliminated a few lines of code in the process
<brousch> why is it when i do something the right way i end up with less code?
<snap-l> heh. :)
<snap-l> It's the way of it. :)
<rick_h_> it's a very true sign
<rick_h_> whenever I'm forcing a bad design I have all kinds of crap code trying to make things happen
<rick_h_> and later on, it hits me, and code gets cut in 1/3
<snap-l> Can someone riddle me why I keep running ruby on my machine?
<rick_h_> because there's something cool on there?
<rick_h_> and you have an on again/off again relationship with tracks?
<snap-l> yes
<gamerchick02> what does Ruby give you that Java or C can't?
<snap-l> And for some reason I keep following the development branch that goes from working to not working
<snap-l> gamerchick02: tracks
<rick_h_> cool libraries/packages :)
<gamerchick02> is it love? coffee in the morning?
 * gamerchick02 is being silly again
 * rick_h_ parses snap-l's line there and wonders if that was rhetorical or not
<snap-l> rick_h_: Which line?
<rick_h_> "And for some reason I keep following the development branch that goes from working to not  working
<rick_h_> "
<rick_h_> sorry, monday, I'm not coherent today
<gamerchick02> then why run the dev branch?
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: sssshhhhh
<snap-l>     Convert tracks to use Bundler for gem resolution
<rick_h_> lol
<gamerchick02> i run the dev-daily of chromium, but if it borks, i go back to firefox. no big hairy deal.
<rick_h_> woo! ruby, where there's no standard tool to do anything, but 20 ways to do it differently
<gamerchick02> rick_h_: I like being silly sometimes
<gamerchick02> and happy Monday to all.
<snap-l> Which apparently is like saying "lets use pip, but not the one that works"
<rick_h_> snap-l: you hit up devin on CHC? I'm going to be late and wonder if we can work out the gift card purchasing situation.
<snap-l> https://github.com/carlhuda/bundler/issues/865
<snap-l> Neck: fuck me in
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's the plan, or I'm screwed to make it out again.
<rick_h_> k
<rick_h_> I need to go find food...grrrrr
<snap-l> Apparently when you do "gem install bundler" it does not put a command "bundle" ahywhere that is usable
<snap-l> ah, because ruby on Ubuntu installs libraries in /var
<snap-l> how fucking brilliant
<rick_h_> yea, I had to manually patch paths for that in arch as well
<rick_h_> puts stuff in /opt
<snap-l> why?
<snap-l> unless you're Sun, nothing goes in /opt
<snap-l> /var/lib/gems/1.8/gems/bundler-1.0.18/lib/bundler/index.rb:110: [BUG] Segmentation fault
<snap-l> I think I need to seriously write a python implementation of Tracks
<snap-l> this is stupid.
<_stink_> o/
<snap-l> Installing ZenTest (4.6.1) /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/rubygems/installer.rb:170:in `install': ZenTest requires RubyGems version ~> 1.8. Try 'gem update --system' to update RubyGems itself. (Gem::InstallError)
<rick_h_> uh oh, snap-l having fun?
<rick_h_> time to figure out rvm or something me thinks
<rick_h_> forget that system level ruby stuff
<snap-l> I'm done.
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> I'm rewriting this thing in Python
<rick_h_> virtuanenv --no-site-packages tacks_not_ruby
<snap-l> I'll need some help with the interface to get what I want, but frankly I'm sick of feeling like my system is overrun by idiots.
<Blazeix> you could call it 'pins'
<rick_h_> man, if only you knew anyone that did web development, some uis, and in something not ruby :P
<snap-l> and flavor of the month club shit
<Blazeix> or 'pyns'
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, and if only there was a framework that could tie all of the models and views and controllers together
<rick_h_> ouch, that's a toughy
<snap-l> Blazeix: Half tempted to call it Amish Rake Fight
<snap-l> (except there's already a band called that)
<Blazeix> to google it is
<snap-l> Regardless, I need to migrate my stuff again to todo.sh so I at least have something to look at
<snap-l> But this is it. I'm done with Ruby.
<Blazeix> have you ever played around with emacs org mode?
<Blazeix> I have a friend who organizes his entire life using that
<rick_h_> there's a vim port, before you get the idea of launching emacs in a virtualmachine
<snap-l> Blazeix: Have you ever stuck your finger in a light socket?
<Blazeix> not a fan?
<snap-l> Not particularly
<Blazeix> It specifically calls out GTD as something it handles :)
<snap-l> both of emacs and of org mode
<snap-l> maybe I haven't given it enough time, but most of the text based ones I've seen use project identifiers that look more like a Scott Adams text adventure
<snap-l> GET BANK
<snap-l> CLEAN GARAGE
<snap-l> PLAY FIDDLE
<snap-l> I don't work that way.
<gamerchick02> you play the fiddle?
<snap-l> gamerchick02: and I dance with the devil in the pale moonlight
<gamerchick02> ooooh, cool. :)
<gamerchick02> all i can think of is hyperbole and a half when you posted that: GET BANK, CLEAN GARAGE, etc
<Blazeix> What are you, a wizard?
<snap-l> (note: no, I don't play the fiddle, unless you count making cat-in-pain noises).
<Wolfger> the snap-l went down to Georgia? No?
<snap-l> I can play that song... on the radio.
<Wolfger> :-)
<gamerchick02> :-D
<Wolfger> speaking of snap-l and radio... I was listening to Pandora on my commute today, and I "liked" Nickelback and Metallica within minutes of each other. I contemplated the possibility this might make Pandora explode...
<snap-l> Wolfger: No, just shows you have no taste. ;)
<Wolfger> I should have not liked Metallica?
<snap-l> Depends... was it pre-load or post-load?
<Wolfger> I have no idea what that even means
<snap-l> What song was it that you liked?
<Wolfger> Sad But True
<rick_h_> pre-load
<rick_h_> though I tend to referrer to metallica as pre-black and post-block
<rick_h_> the load era is just something that's better forgotten
<snap-l> Yeah
<Wolfger> created this station off a single song suggestion a couple weeks ago for Alcohaulin' Ass by Hellyeah. So far, it's been pretty good for me.
<gamerchick02> Nice, wolfger. but why Nickelback?
<Wolfger> *sigh* Not you too...
<gamerchick02> no, i'm asking why? i like a couple of songs by them
<gamerchick02> i don't openly admit it, lest my hipster cred be tarnished...
<Wolfger> lol
<gamerchick02> :-D
<gamerchick02> i've got the black rimmed glasses and the chucks.
<Wolfger> I like Nickelback. The songs that don't hit the top 40 more than those that do.
<gamerchick02> i don't fit skinny jeans, but hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
<gamerchick02> ah. :)
<Wolfger> well, except Rock Star. That one's cool *and* popular
<gamerchick02> :)
<brousch> snap-l: where on your TODO list does the Pyramid-based task organizer go?
<snap-l> It goes into todo.sh. ;)
<brousch> before you can add todo.py to your tasks list, you must first create todo.py
<brousch> your mission is to write a minimal task list today, and have it always working as you enhance and build it. this way you will only add features you need as they become more important than other tasks on your list
<rick_h_> remember, api first, then app :)
<rick_h_> hmm, so is he rewriting tracks or todo.sh?
<brousch> i have no idea what the difference is
<rick_h_> tracks is a web based app, todo.sh is a command line plain text deal
<brousch> i'm just trolling to procrastinate doing real work
<rick_h_> yea, I'm done with real work for the day
<Wolfger> \o/
<rick_h_> http://joeybeninghove.com/2011/08/16/backbone-screencast-introduction-views/ watching this
<rick_h_> but man is he hard to watch/listen to
<rick_h_> getting some yummy ideas though
<snap-l> I'm rewriting tracks
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> At least that's the plan. :)
<rick_h_> from ruby to python you should be able to almost just port it vs rewrite it
<brousch> i demand a native android client
 * Wolfger just heard brousch volunteer
<brousch> yes, i volunteer to demand a native android client
<Blazeix> speaking of which, has anyone played around with phonegap at all?
<rick_h_> brousch: was playing around with it
<brousch> i made 2 tiny apps with phonegap
<Blazeix> thoughts? It seems like a good way to make webapps with app store support.
<Blazeix> do they provide JS bridges to native APIs?
<brousch> yes
<brousch> some APIs
<rick_h_> http://docs.phonegap.com/
<rick_h_> yea, not all
<brousch> it is basically a wrapper around webkit with some native API access
<brousch> so your app is javascript/html/css
<rick_h_> hah! http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/getting-started-with-backbone-js/
<rick_h_> backbone collections are just my xxxMgr objects
<rick_h_> awesome
<_stink_> snap-l: i wrote pydidit as a sqlalchemy/curses todo app, but i confess it was my first attempt and is pretty broken.  and it's not necessarily GTD. :)  but let me know if you get something going, i'd love to look at it/help out.
<jjesse> for those of you with the HP tablet, looks like CyanogenMod now works on it
<jjesse> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/cyanogenmod-team-gets-android-working-on-hp-touchpad/
<krondor> jjesse:  works is relative... no touchscreen support yet I thought
<Wolfger> touchpad - touch screen = brick?
<rick_h_> if bt works you can keyboard
<rick_h_> think they had a bt keyboard for the pre
<rick_h_> it's a good step, I had heard the graphics chip was diff than most android devices, so if they got a gui, that's a good step
<snap-l> _stink_: I'd really love some of your help with this
<_stink_> snap-l: if you create a project or googlegroup or anything, please include me
<snap-l> I'm going to set up some models and hopefully push up some code real-soon now.
<rick_h_> _stink_: at CHC?
<snap-l> It'll likely be on github.
<_stink_> awesome.
<krondor> rick_h_:  yeah it's an adreno 220
<rick_h_> :P
<_stink_> rick_h_: someday :P
<_stink_> this Wednesday is the end of the zoo summer concerts
<rick_h_> hmm, have to squeeze in some time before hockey starts :P
<rick_h_> how's the boy doing?
<_stink_> he's good.  seems to have gotten past a few of the devil child things he picked up a few weeks ago
<_stink_> but pretty typical goofy toddler atm
<_stink_> yours?
<rick_h_> hah! let me know how you get those out. toddler-hood is going to test my new found adult patience
<rick_h_> oh he's great as long as I'm biking him around or mowing for him to watch, or something else that involves dad working his @#$#@ off
<_stink_> we just try to be relentless in correcting him
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> _stink_: yea, steady wins the race you hope
<_stink_> rick_h_: hah, so he's making you work.
<_stink_> i think there are some potential health benefits to fatherhood
<rick_h_> I credit him with half my weight loss. He's a slave driver
<_stink_> i can lift more than i could beforehand
<rick_h_> heh, that's for sure
<brousch> Three is the worst age so far
<brousch> potty training is going to kill me
<brousch> so you've got that to look forward to
<rick_h_> yea, just ordered a potty seat
<rick_h_> and stool, so getting to start that
<_stink_> we got a potty, but it's just sitting for now
<_stink_> not really thinking about that yet
<rick_h_> the day care room he's in makes him do it before he moves on
<_stink_> damn
<_stink_> pressure. :)
<rick_h_> but yea, it's more of an early stage, trying to get him interested, "do you need a new diaper" etc
<rick_h_> sweet, my python namespaced packages are working
<rick_h_> time to start up my own python namespace
<rick_h_> from mitechie.something import awesomesauce
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> I wonder if my boss would let me post our tools up
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/PyTracks
<brousch> right at 5pm? seriously?
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> It's just a pyramid shell right now
<_stink_> o/
<snap-l> I FUCKING HATE CAPTCHAS
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/79356145#notice-82009866 <- seriously?
<Blazeix> I hesitate to say this, but I'm with psquid
 * Blazeix ducks
<Blazeix> also, I read that thread as psquid prefacing all his comments with "oh snap!"
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/conversation/79356145
<snap-l> Blazeix: captchas are not a solution. They're a stop-gap
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/82013382 <- Blazeix
<Blazeix> snap-l: are you against captchas in their current form, or captchas in general?
<Blazeix> by "in general" I mean taking the literal definition of an automated way of telling comps and humans apart.
<Blazeix> maybe every 50th captcha I run into I have trouble deciphering, but there's a refresh button to bypass it.
<snap-l> I'm against them because they're user-hostile
<Blazeix> you've yet to answer any of psquids questions with a serious answer.
<Blazeix> so what's your ideal solution?
<snap-l> Awesome, he blocked me.
<Blazeix> I'll agree that captchas aren't the ideal solution, but they are a solution.
<snap-l> my point is that they're not effective because humans can route around them to get spam accounts
<snap-l> and the problems with normal users outweigh the benefits.
<Blazeix> snap-l: you mean mechanical-turk style?
<snap-l> Yes.
<Blazeix> yeah, that is an issue, and I don't see a way around it.
<Blazeix> but it's a difference of rates
<Blazeix> a computer can spam 100s (or 1000s) per minute.
<Blazeix> or at least, way faster than a human can.
<snap-l> Understood, but there are better ways of dealing with that that don't inconvenience users.
<Blazeix> like what?
<snap-l> moderation, throttling
<Blazeix> The one thing that comes to mind is an empty field that's hidden
<Blazeix> throttling wouldn't be useful, due to bot net spam.
<Blazeix> moderation would be insane without some other way of limiting spam.
<snap-l> There's also algorithmic pattern matching (akismet)
<snap-l> In each of these, it's transparent to the user.
<Blazeix> akismet is pretty awesome, but it isn't perfect, and you have false positives.
<snap-l> I'm very passionate about making the user experience better, and CAPTCHAs inhibit that.
<snap-l> Blazeix: You get false positives with CAPTCHAS
<Blazeix> true, but I'd wager less than akismet. though i don't have any stats to back that up
<snap-l> I've had well-known sites eat postings that I just said "fuck it" because the CAPTCHA killed my post
<snap-l> I don't either
<Blazeix> yeah, you raised that on the ident thread
<Blazeix> that's an issue with crappy sites, rather than CAPTCHAs
<snap-l> and that's what really pissed me off about that conversation was me venting my spleen turned into having to defend why I think they're stupid
<Blazeix> any site worth its salt will use some ajaxy thing
<Blazeix> I suppose I'm not helping by raising it in IRC, then
<snap-l> I have yet to see a captcha that made me thrilled to use it
<snap-l> Blazeix: I feel more comfortable talking to you about it because I know you
<snap-l> You're not going to block me because I'm an ass.
<Blazeix> I guess very few CAPTCHAs induce happiness (short of the find a puppy captchas), but a site not being overrun by spam does. at least for me.
<snap-l> True, but they're a false sense of security
<Blazeix> I don't believe there's a solution that can give you true security. I'm not arguing it's anywhere close to perfect, but it does help, and I wouldn't want captchas to disappear tomorrow.
<Blazeix> I definitely wouldn't call them "ineffective." But we can continue this at CHC :)
<Blazeix> if you want
<snap-l> No, I'm good. :)
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/82016008
<snap-l> http://seldo.tumblr.com/post/9549775746/this-is-genuinely-microsofts-idea-of-a
<Blazeix> oh jesus that's ugly
<Blazeix> the only good part is that the ribbon is hideable, so you can get rid of all that crap and use keyboard shortcuts.
<Blazeix> the way god intended.
<snap-l> I love the design differences between MS and Apple
<snap-l> MS makes the buttons bigger
<snap-l> Apple does away with the buttons
<snap-l> am I right in thinking that tmpfs should't fill up?
<snap-l> tmpfs           /tmp            tmpfs   nodev,nosuid,mode=1777 0 0
<snap-l> tmpfs                  4097040   4097040         0 100% /tmp
<snap-l> Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
<snap-l> This is really fucked up.
<snap-l> Going to remove tmpfs and reboot.
<snap-l> brb.
<snap-l> OK, let's see how that works. :)
<jcastro> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576535211589514334.html
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> this is awesome
<snap-l> jcastro: That's awesome.
<snap-l> I'd forgotten how truly dysfunctional HP became.
<Blazeix> wow, I didn't realize their CEO was from SAP. That's doom right there.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-30
<brousch> snap-l: how many people are you expecting saturday?
<snap-l> http://blog.kobobooks.com/new-4-5-2-kobo-application-update-is-now-available-for-your-ios-devices/ <- I will not be the guy that bitches that they introduce bullshit features in iOS while not fixing my firmware... I will not...
<Blazeix> wow, and I thought kindle's snippet sharing was bad.
<Blazeix> I don't want my facebook friends to know I'm team edward.
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> I think I figured out what is using up /tmp
<snap-l> and it might have U1's fingerprints all over it
<Blazeix> uhoh
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntuone-client/+bug/823647
<snap-l> I think my problem is because U1 was having connectivity issues
<snap-l> but I'm down to 41M on a 2gb filesystem
<snap-l> which would explain why tmpfs filled up earlier.
<snap-l> Man, U1 is quirky
<snap-l> Note: this is all to upload 1 albums worth of mp3 files.
<snap-l> which, according to u1's current transfers switch, should have already finished
<snap-l> `This is insane
<snap-l> There's 16 copies of the same file with different filenames
<snap-l> And removing the tmp files got me from 95% to 39%
<rick_h_> snap-l: quit breaking U1, let it work the way they intended
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ayep
<rick_h_> I request a number of downvotes please
<rick_h_> http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/jyvib/my_vim_setup_for_python/
<rick_h_> wasting my time in the morning with this crap
<Wolfger> lame.
<Wolfger> (the reddit entry, not you wasting time)
<rick_h_> bah
<brousch> i think i may have vim movement command under control
<rick_h_> can anyone think of a command line command with a . in the name?
<brousch> i think splits must come next. i find i use gedit when i need to deal with more than 1 file at the same time
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome
<rick_h_> splits are the best can't live without them
<brousch> yeah, i have to rewatch your vimcast on them
<rick_h_> it comes highly recommended :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Heh. :)
<brousch> i have had surprisingly few people make fun of the postit notes taped to the side of my laptop monitor
<rick_h_> take it slow, one/two new a week
<brousch> it works incredibly well. even when i'm not actually using vim i glance over and read through the list
<rick_h_> more than that you forget things and never really learn
<rick_h_> just learn to look up things
<brousch> well the post0its are my lookup. they're just instantly accessible
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/vim/comments/jyvib/my_vim_setup_for_python/c2g8kq8
<rick_h_> yea, I mean who thinks that looks cool at all?
<rick_h_> and the code, ugh!
<snap-l> I couldn't even look at the code. Sorry.
<rick_h_> pep8! please!
<rick_h_> and all the print crap, imports in methods
<snap-l> I'm going to be copying over our loco team application for our reapproval application
<snap-l> rick_h_: Aw, c'mon... imports in methods are so you don't have that long load time. ;)
<snap-l> It's like putting tabs in there so the compiler doesn't have to work so hard reading spaces.
<snap-l> OPTIMIZATION
<rick_h_> I forsee many pull requests to snap-l's todo project
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Pull requests as in skeet shooting. :)
<snap-l> PULL! (PEP8)
<snap-l> PULL! (WTF?!?)
<rick_h_> hey, that was one of my first pull requests to fabric
<rick_h_> pep8'd that mofo
<snap-l> PULL! (WERE YOU ON DRUGS?)
<brousch> pep8nazi
<brousch> that is your new handle
 * pep8mofo says: you damn well better only do one import per line
 * pep8mofo says: I pity the fool that don't put a space after his ,
<snap-l> I'm totally single spacing my code. :)
 * pep8mofo says: if you make any line 120char long you will be dragged out back and shot
<pep8mofo> Man, I think I need to write an irc bot. First time I've felt that urge
<brousch> my monitor is 1280 pixels wide. i should be able to use it all!
 * pep8mofo goes to get the gun
<Wolfger> pep8mofo: ok, I'll make sure my lines are longer than 120
 * Wolfger writes a bunch of 119 and 121 character lines, to avoid being shot. ;-)
<pep8mofo> don't anger the pep8mofo :P
<snap-l> wow, just realized I had pep8 installed in /usr/local/bin.
<pep8mofo> *sigh*
<snap-l> and a lot of crap in /usr/local/lib that got copied over from many many machines
<snap-l> so it wouldn't work.
<pep8mofo> sudo pip install pep8
<brousch> pep8 is for sheep and confomists. i'm a rebel!
<snap-l> yes, my master.
<snap-l> craig@lister:~$ sudo apt-get install pep8
<pep8mofo> booooo!
<pep8mofo> you expect ubuntu to have decent packages for that crap? :P
<snap-l> No, but my virtualenv does. :)
<snap-l> at least it's a sane default
<pep8mofo> problem is the --no-site-packages
<brousch> wouldn't it be python-pep8?
<pep8mofo> you need it as part of your base virtualenv stuff
<snap-l> and not something compiled for 2.6 on a 2.7 machine
<pep8mofo> you're not on 2.6 or 2.7?
<snap-l> ahem
<brousch> python2.5 for life!
<brousch> if it's good enough for guido ...
<snap-l> /usr/local/ had a pep8 for 2.6
<snap-l> I'm not on 2.6, I'm on 2.7
<snap-l> I removed the libraries under /usr/local/
<snap-l> installed pep8 for the rest of the system
<snap-l> and installed pep8 in my virtualenv
<pep8mofo> do it with pip and a site-packages per python version and don't care about /usr/local
<snap-l> pep8mofo: I DID THAT
<snap-l> I removed the libraries under /usr/local/
<snap-l> ^^
<snap-l> ^^
<snap-l> ^^
<snap-l> relax, cujo
<pep8mofo> lol
<brousch> he's not cujo, he's mofo
<snap-l> E: Unable to locate package pep257
<pep257mofo> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0257/#multi-line-docstrings
 * pep257mofo says: if you start a docstring and then newline without any text...pain!
<snap-l> docstrings? Who uses those?
<snap-l> my code is my comment. ;)
<brousch> yeah, screw comments
<brousch> rtfc if you want to know what it does
<pep257mofo> I'll remember you said that
<snap-l> I believe the next language we'll be programming in will be called buckshot
<snap-l> as in what we'll be pulling out of our ass the next time we see pep257mofo
<pep257mofo> anyone played with aws acls?
<brousch> no, you are the guinea pig for all technologies
<pep257mofo> ugh
<brousch> admit it. you hate using things that everyone has used and approved of
<brousch> java, dotnet, django, Apple, Gnome, Ubuntu
<pep257mofo> ok, I can't help it
<pep257mofo> wasn't gib recording the meeting where we did the loco takes over Mug?
<pep257mofo> where there was a big presentatin on lernid?
<brousch> that video was horrendous
<brousch> i even tried to download it and edit it and gave up
<pep257mofo> hah
<pep257mofo> but now he's emailing the guy that gave that prensetation "what is lernid"
<brousch> doh
<pep257mofo> sorry, caused a laugh
<snap-l> pep257mofo: pls change your nick. ;)
<snap-l> r[tab] isn't working. ;)
<ptenhoopen_> whitemice:  Did you get John Harig's email about your OLF hotel registration?
<ptenhoopen_> He wants to know if you want to keep the hotel reservation he made for you or cancel it.
<ptenhoopen_> Dang, he's not online now.
<brousch> ptenhoopen_: wrong channel
<ptenhoopen_> Doh!
<ptenhoopen_> brousch:  Thanks!
<rick_h> fine :P
<jrwren> i made mistake of reading more about raspberrypi board.  zomg I can't wait! i want one so badly.
<_stink_> holy balls
<_stink_> i hadn't heard of this yeet
<_stink_> yet
<jjesse> that sounds really cool
<jrwren> i had heard of it.
<jjesse> i might want to buy one
<jrwren> but the B board is new to me.  ethernet and 256MB plz, k, ty.
<jrwren> zomg, it sounds so awesome.
<rick_h> sweet, talked to the boss about setting up a github organization for OSS'ing some of the code/packages here
<rick_h> since I"m the only one to have written any of hte packages, it'd be great to help me prepare for future job :)
<brousch> nice
<rick_h> also talked about getting devs large format kindles :)
<rick_h> that one has a longer shot I believe, but boss seemed interested in the illegal sharing idea
<rick_h> buy one pdf share to all 5 devs/kindles
<snap-l> And you can use it for RPG game night
<snap-l> not that I'd know of any company with a store of RPG books
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> well we got chatting on how he was printing of tons of material he read on vacatoin
<rick_h> and I asked why not print to pdf and take with you on your kindle
<rick_h> so that brought up the pdf shortfalls of the small kindle
<rick_h> which brought up the idea I've had for getting a big one
<rick_h> and then company issued ones :)
<snap-l> rick_h: Nice.
<snap-l> I played a little more with the nook color last night
<rick_h> wife is less angry if work buys it vs me :)
<snap-l> Jodee's going to take a class where the payoff is a $150 B&N gift card
<snap-l> I think everyone in that class is going to be there just for the gift card.
<snap-l> I told her she should ask questions during class:
<rick_h> wow, what class is this?
<snap-l> "will the gift card work on all purchases"?
<snap-l> Some educator bullshit class that nobody in their right mind would take if there wasn't a $150 B&N carrot at the end.
<brousch> can she attend multiple times?
<snap-l> brousch: It's a 6 period class that requires attendance to get the card at the end.
<snap-l> "will this work for electronics purchases?"
<snap-l> "Will it be one card, or several smaller cards?"
<snap-l> "Can I get the Cat In the Hat card?"
<snap-l> stupid questions all centering around the gift card.
<snap-l> I think one of the sessions is on learning Excel.
<rick_h> ugh
<_stink_> lawl
<snap-l> Yeah, it's quite a bullet
<rick_h> hah, there you go HP, try to get me to buy other crap by emailing me to let me know no touchpads in stock
<ptenhoopen_> rick_h:  Was that the email list from HP that was to let people know when more touchpads were available?
<rick_h> ptenhoopen_: "we're still out and it'll be several weeks before we get stock. In the meantime, here's a coupon for some toners/printers/etc"
<ptenhoopen_> Nice
<snap-l> rick_h: I believe HP has earned a coveted place on fuckedcompany
<snap-l> I can't believe that this MFC has just about every single network function, save for NTP
<rick_h> hah, awesome
<rick_h> http://twitter.com/#!/dotvimrc/status/108585158499774464
<rick_h> very nice vim tip!
<rick_h> tweaked the colors for my own setup, but very nice!
<snap-l> Oh, that's handy.
<rick_h> hi StatusLine guifg=#fcf4ba guibg=#333333
<rick_h> hi StatusLineNC guifg=#808080 guibg=#333333
<rick_h> my version
<snap-l> Mine already appears to do that.
<rick_h> the original color I didn't like, went more yellow
<rick_h> and original had a white background on me
<rick_h> went with the darker bg
<snap-l> I think my theme is interfering
<rick_h> gotcha
<snap-l> actually, it's because I was using the terminal
<rick_h> ah
<snap-l> http://zgeek.com/content.php/8656-HP-Selling-Fucked-Company-to-Buy-a-New-One-to-Fuck-Up <- heh
<jrwren> tru
<rick_h> brousch: http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/jz746/ask_what_do_you_use_micro_frameworks_for/
<rick_h> just for you
<snap-l> http://shelby-utica.patch.com/articles/halloween-bazaar-to-take-over-borders-book-store-in-utica
<snap-l> There's a shocker
<rick_h> hah, there you go
<snap-l> I swear, we won't have a zombie invasion, we'll have a halloween store zombie invasion
<rick_h> hah, we're entering the crazy name phase of android: http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-outs-sprints-galaxy-s-ii-epic-4g-touch-ahead-tonights-event
<rick_h> "galaxy S II Epic 4g"...whatever happened to just driod, nexus one, captivate
<Blazeix> yeah, "galaxy S II" is samsung's branding, "Epic 4G touch" is sprint's branding
<rick_h> they're all touch! lol
<Blazeix> GS2 is available on a bunch of different carriers
<rick_h> I want to see epic 4g type
<rick_h> yea, I know
<rick_h> just funny when I saw that how crazy
<rick_h> S II 4G, gah!
<Blazeix> yeah, samsung just unveiled a really confusing naming scheme. Something about S vs R vs W vs M.
<Blazeix> all in the galaxy family
<rick_h> yay!
<rick_h> maturity == "running out of names! we must stick within our brand!"
<Wolfger> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/juonf/my_boss_was_tired_of_our_wire_cutters_getting/
<snap-l> I'm waiting for the "Do NT Touch".
<snap-l> I'm impressed... Musicbrainz has an entry for Carcass' Peel Sessions disc
<snap-l> Thought for sure that wouldn't be there.
<snap-l> It's awesome too because it glows in the dark
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/104598/where-to-look-for-challenging-jobs-with-a-relaxed-atmosphere
<jcastro> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/9593170639/etherpad-lite-now-easy-to-deploy-for-your-events
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> the number of times we could have used this ^^^^^^
<rick_h> cool jcastro was checking out the new lite version when it was released last week
<rick_h> node.js ftw
<jcastro> up and running, 4 commands
<jcastro> it scales so much better than old javapad
<rick_h> yea
<jcastro> http://ec2-50-17-151-64.compute-1.amazonaws.com:9001/
<jcastro> hit this!
<jcastro> http://ec2-50-17-151-64.compute-1.amazonaws.com:9001/p/rick
<jcastro> I will have this baremetalable soon
<jcastro> so you don't have to get nickled to death on AWS.
<jcastro> though, for an event
<jcastro> you could do like, fire this up
<jcastro> attach an EBS
<jcastro> have your  event
<jcastro> tear it all down
<jcastro> then repeat the next year and you'd have your data just stored in EBS.
<rick_h> yea, that's cool
<rick_h> uh oh, think I crashed something
<brousch> an event?
<brousch> snap-l: did you listen to http://unwoman.bandcamp.com/album/uncovered-volume-1# ?
<brousch> good stuff in there
<snap-l> No, I didn't because it's (C)
<brousch> still good music :P
<snap-l> http://getsatisfaction.com/kobo/topics/kobo_1_9_sees_wireless_as_wep_and_is_much_more_crashy
<snap-l> I really hate corporate password rules that require special rules to conform
<jrwren> jcastro: wholy shit jorge... ensemble forumlas look like the bees knees.
<jcastro> jrwren: apt for the cloud yo
<jrwren> its awesome.
<jrwren> and optionally for my private cloud.
<jrwren> so hot.
<jcastro> or just normal bare metal
<jcastro> but not right now, give me till the end of the month
<jcastro> Like, I like the cloud, don't get me wrong smoser
<jcastro> but if I can type that at work and deploy on HW I own then woo.
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> and I don't care what anyone says. bare metal is still the fastest.
<jrwren> i don't want to run in VM for some things.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> if anything, I am sick of waiting for EC2 for every little thing
<snap-l> jrwren: bah, VMs for every single process.
<smoser> DBO, are you going to talk about ubuntu in ohio?
<DBO> there is something going on in ohio?
<smoser> cause i really dont want to, and really am not qualified to talk about any desktop-y things
<DBO> smoser, this? https://ohiolinux.org/
<smoser> yeah
<smoser> there was a mail from jcastro where he threw you and i under a bus
<jcastro> :)
<DBO> really?
<DBO> I like busses
<DBO> no no no, Jay Sullivan got thrown under a bus
<DBO> my god
<DBO> "The Ubuntu Gaming System"
<DBO> wow... hes screwed
<smoser> jcastro, where did you send that mail. i cant find it.
<DBO> oh I see
<DBO> we did get bussed
<DBO> smoser, it is in your canonical email
<DBO> jcastro, let me check my schedule, maybe I can show
<snap-l> DBO: Rick and I will be there doing Lococast if you want to stop by. :)
<snap-l> not sure if that's incentive or not. ;)
<snap-l> Ubuntu Gaming... isnt' that where Canonical put the humble bundle titles into the software store? ;)
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> you should do the lococast
<jcastro> "And now we have Jason Smith, tells us Jason, how do you feel about tiling window managers?"
<jcastro> "Uhhhh"
<snap-l> jcastro: No fair, now he'll have time to think about a reasonable answer.
<DBO> okay Im going
<DBO> jcastro, so "Writing Applications for Unity"
<DBO> smoser, you're off the hook :)
<snap-l> DBO: I thought it was "Ubuntu Unity: I'm not an effigy"
<DBO> Ubuntu Unity: use it you ungrateful bastards
<snap-l> heh
<DBO> where the hell is jcastro...
<snap-l> Florida
<DBO> you dont get to throw me under a bus AND run away
<jcastro> hah
<snap-l> We're still claiming him on our team reports, though
<smoser> i like snap-l's suggestion
<snap-l> It's like tax time and dependants. :)
<DBO> jcastro, what should I tell the guy the talk is called?
<smoser> i'm so coming with a fake mustache and tomatoes
<jcastro> "Unity: Everything you don't like is my fault, and you should throw tomatoes at me"
<DBO> smoser, Im bringing a super soaker and house paint
<smoser> meh. house paint washes off. tomatoes are funny for longer.
<snap-l> "Unity: Why you're switching to Arch"
<DBO> "Unity: if you switch to Arch you were too dumb to use a combo-box"
<snap-l> "Unity: The prostate checkup Linux was avoiding for 20 years"
<DBO> "Unity: the press is wrong and I'll tell you every lie they ever said because they review shit without using it, I'm looking at you snap-l"
<snap-l> "Unity: Your graphics card sucks"
<snap-l> DBO: Dude, I'm soaking in it
<snap-l> I even bought a newer graphics card because of Unity
<snap-l> I have never said anything bad about Unity that wasn't grounded in truth. :)
<snap-l> I think you're thinking of someone else.
<DBO> I was telling dirty lies about you
<DBO> Im tired of the press though :/
<snap-l> http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5450-overview/pages/hd-5450-overview.aspx <- That's the chipset I bought
<DBO> they suck so hard
<DBO> you bought a radeon?
<snap-l> DBO: Well, it is controversial
<jcastro> DBO: do a cycle on server side stuff
<snap-l> and the press LOOOOOVES controversy
<jcastro> the users don't hate you
<DBO> I want to cycle into HR
<DBO> no
<DBO> accounting
<jcastro> people actually like what you do, etc.
<snap-l> DBO: I thought it could do crossfire with my 3450, but it doesn't.
<snap-l> was $20 after rebate, though
<snap-l> and I have an AMD chipset.
<DBO> snap-l, basically this is linux
<DBO> always buy nvidia
<DBO> its about the only thing with a proper working gl stack
<snap-l> I've been happy thus far
<snap-l> It's mostly working with a few quirks
<snap-l> but the 5450 is much less quirky than the 3450
<snap-l> At least it isn't an Intel. ;)
<DBO> true
<DBO> I *really* want to give a talk on what everyone does wrong
<DBO> and just offer no solutions
<DBO> but I think that would be bad form
<rick_h_> hmmm, did I disconnect? wtf
<snap-l> "How to make Unity sings, and your desktop happy"
<DBO> I really wish we could just make a plugin system for Unity already...
<snap-l> Step 1: Ditch your POS graphics card
<devinheitmueller> Step 2: uninstall Unity?
<devinheitmueller> ;-)
<DBO> devinheitmueller, it's called a combo-box, learn to use it
<DBO> when the funny thing that makes you type a password shows up, click on it... now I know you will be tempted to let go of the mouse
<DBO> but dont
<devinheitmueller> Hmmm, combo-box.  I remember those from Windows 3.1!
<DBO> keep holding onto that button
<DBO> then move the mouse to where it says "Classic"
<DBO> THEN
<DBO> then let go
<DBO> it's practically brain surgery
<DBO> but what you'll find is the urge to bitch will go down a LOT
<snap-l> but classic is going away, and I hate KDE/QT
<snap-l> And really, I just want a mac.
<kdub> classic is going away? :(
<DBO> no
<DBO> its not
<snap-l> kdub: Yes, and Canonical eats children
<DBO> stop listening to mark
<snap-l> with butter
<snap-l> and a rue
<DBO> actually we prefer them battered
<DBO> ...just realized thats a double entedre
<DBO> entendre
 * DBO sits down to wait for the black helicopters
<snap-l> heh
<kdub> thought police!
<snap-l> I know you guys probably have dick to do with some of the design, but whomever made the new software center have a candy-store header needs to lay off the banapeel smoking
<snap-l> http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Selection_008.jpeg
<rick_h_> ouch: http://twitter.com/#!/chrismcdonough/status/108639457867071488
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wow, that smarts.
<brousch> heh, so true
<brousch> i'm looking at what a pyramid scaffold generates for you and it is a lot
<brousch> which i'm sure is one reason it's so easy to plug it into wsgi
<jrwren> can anyone help with a simple regex? I can't seem to see from where a second match is coming. https://gist.github.com/1182046
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: a case where you have a "*" instead of a "+" ?
<devinheitmueller> * = zero or more matches.
<jrwren> understood, but I really want that.
<jrwren> e.g.    1,,2 should result in {"1","","2"}
<snap-l> I'm never buying another MP3 from Amazon if I can help it
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: and if I'm matching "a", then it is matching , or $ and I don't see a , there, so it should match $ and be done.
<jrwren> or is it some strange rule because $ is zero width?
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, I'm not sure.  Under Perl I just always use Text::ParseWords, which is a built-in module so it's always available.
<jrwren> I'm trying to parse Excel style CSV, that is the catch.
<jrwren> so its not Parse Words at all.
<devinheitmueller> The name is a bit of a misnomer, but indeed it is intended to parse CSV files that have quoted values.
<jrwren> mixed with non quoted?
<devinheitmueller> It's explicitly intended to deal with the "I'm using quoted CSV, but what if there's a quote in the actual CSV content?
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: yeah.
<devinheitmueller> But again, you're using Python, so not really relevant to you.
<jrwren> https://github.com/chorny/Text-ParseWords/blob/master/ParseWords.pm
<jrwren> I'm in C#.
<jrwren> similar enough regex engine. I'll just use their regex.
<devinheitmueller> worth a try.
<devinheitmueller> It's a pretty nasty regex.  No guarantee they aren't using some PCRE ism rather than a true POSIX regex.
<jcastro> snap-l: that's just a palce holder
<jcastro> that'll be where like the app shots go, etc.
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: C# is nearly PCRE
<snap-l> jcastro: OK, thank you.
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: and I can read both pcre adn C# well enough to xlate.
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: I was a perl programmer before moving to C# :)
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: fair enough.
<devinheitmueller> I am not challenging your Perl-fu.  Just making the observation that there are slight differences between Perl regex and POSIX regex to watch out for.  :-)
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> not just slight.
<jrwren> POSIX regex is completely different.
<jrwren> no character class shortcuts like \s \w \d in POSIX or even ERE
<jrwren> [[:alpha:]] <- i never liked it
<devinheitmueller> yup
<devinheitmueller> wtf, seriously:  http://www.osnews.com/story/25116/HP_Announces_Another_TouchPad_Production_Run
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: huge thanks for that link BTW.
<jrwren> Text::ParseWords ftw
<devinheitmueller> np.
<devinheitmueller> Glad it works for you.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-31
<snap-l> Evening
<jjesse> that it is
<_stink_> yo
<snap-l> OK, so I'm thinking about applying for Ubuntu Membership
<greg-g> snap-l: you got my vote
<snap-l> greg-g: Thanks. :)
<greg-g> I mean, I can't say that officially, given I'll be on the review board for you, but, I mean, you're active enough :)
<snap-l> heh, I mentioned to Laura Czamumblemumblemumbleski that the process seemed intimidating
<snap-l> She was discussing with Amber Grainer
<snap-l> so I guess I'll put my money where my mouth is and see just how intimidating it is.
<greg-g> heheh, yeah, Laura Czamumblemumbleski :)
<snap-l> Good morning
<Wolfger> so far
<brousch> great. way to jinx it
<snap-l> Just saw a possum in the back yar carrying her young on her back
<Wolfger> cool
<Wolfger> except for the fact that possums are nasty creatures...
<snap-l> Meh, they're cute in their own way.
<brousch> giant rats
<Wolfger> oh, they're cute
<Wolfger> you just don't want to run into one in a dark alley
<Wolfger> I'm pretty sure it was a possum that ripped up my cat's ears, back when I lived in Mount Clemens
<snap-l> she just trundled back behind our garage
<snap-l> she has four young, it looks like, with the one in the back hanging on for dear life.
<snap-l> http://file.status.net/i/identica/snapl-20110831T122528-gducyjp.png
<Wolfger> d'awwww
<rick_h_> snap-l: you set for CHC?
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think so
<snap-l> I have several bckup plans
<rick_h_> ok, I'll reimburse you for the card when I get there
<snap-l> No worries. I got paid today.
<snap-l> 'sall good
<snap-l> I'll just shake everyone down for coffee money
<snap-l> Wolfger: JoDee just looked up what possums eat
<snap-l> slugs, snails, cockroaches, bugs, and rats
<snap-l> I would say they're pretty hardcore to eat rats.
<snap-l> also they like fruit.
<brousch> they eat garbage
<snap-l> (probably to wash down the taste of rat)
<brousch> and will kick your ass
<snap-l> Well, if you can walk around with four babies on your back, you'd be a little temperamental
<Wolfger> point
<snap-l> I still think it's funny that my corporate token is named "Safe Word (tm)"
<snap-l> That's because I'm clearly 12 years old
<Wolfger> Man, who does this Craig guy think he is, changing our LoCo wiki page? :-p
<Wolfger> "Safe Word (tm)" is an odd name for a product that wants to be taken seriously....
<brousch> snap-l: or you're into S&M
<Wolfger> is "or" the proper conjunction?
<snap-l> har har
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: We should really get you some more exposure for the downriver CHC
<ColonelPanic001> meh, I just figure there's not many of those sorts in Downriver
<snap-l> I think it would be good to put it on the events calendar.
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-michigan/events
<ColonelPanic001> I'm certainly not going to complain
<ColonelPanic001> how does i add event?
<snap-l> Are you logged in?
<ColonelPanic001> in progress. heh. I'll figure it out. Probably
<ColonelPanic001> ah, yeah, there's an "add new event"
<ColonelPanic001> this is hard
<snap-l> heh
<ColonelPanic001> is there a repeating event thing, or just manually make them?
<snap-l> Manual, unfortunately.
<snap-l> But you can copy an event
<ColonelPanic001> that's not so bad
<ColonelPanic001> this time picker widget is NUTS
<ColonelPanic001> I like it, but I've never seen one like that
<rick_h_> Reminder krondor waldo323_ Blazeix widox etc that CHC is tonight 7pm early edition
<rick_h_> still at the new location
<ColonelPanic001> spammar
<rick_h_> ColonelPanic001: damn skippy!
<ColonelPanic001> Dan and I should come out to your guys' CHC sometime, just for fun, and to see one with more than two people
<rick_h_> you should get spammy and get more people :P
<ColonelPanic001> well, we have three sometimes, when my gf comes along for the coffee.
<ColonelPanic001> THERE ARE NO PEOPLE IN DOWNRIVER
<ColonelPanic001> We are a simple folk down here
<rick_h_> lol
<ColonelPanic001> computers mystify and confuse us
<ColonelPanic001> I was seriously surprisd when I met Dan, and Flav told me he was from Downriver
<Wolfger> when/where is downriver?
<brousch> new orleans?
<ColonelPanic001> 8pm, The Grind in Wyandotte
<ColonelPanic001> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1250/detail/
<ColonelPanic001> I maded a event
<Wolfger> same night as the other CHC?
<Wolfger> there's your problem.... ;-)
<Wolfger> You need to change nights to attract all the code addicts that currently go to the other one
<ColonelPanic001> :P
<ColonelPanic001> the guy I emailed about starting it suggested against that, actually. That was my original thought
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't expect most people to drive 45 minutes to come to it anyway, though
<Wolfger> in SCA, there are fight practices in different locations, almost always on different nights, and the hard core guys will be in Detroit on Tuesday, then Sarnia on Wednesday, Warren on Sunday....
<Wolfger> I find it difficult to believe there's more people willing to drive distances to get hit in the head with a stick than there are people willing to drive distances to drink and code.
<ColonelPanic001> haha
<ColonelPanic001> you make a good point
<ColonelPanic001> meh, maybe we'll try moving it sometime. I'll see what Dan thinks, since we're both essentially 50% of Downriver CHC :P
<Wolfger> I, sadly, am not terribly willing to drive distances anymore :-p
<ColonelPanic001> YOU SEE?!
<Wolfger> but if I wind up working in Trenton again, that Wyandotte CHC is right on my way home.
<Wolfger> ...if I hang around and do nothing downriver for 5 hours waiting for it to start :-p
<Wolfger> Sorry. I'm trying to be helpful. Doesn't seem like I'm succeeding fabulously.
<brousch> damn fools are calling and complaining to me because they can't download a 4MB attachment we sent to them
<brousch> "it's 3700 kilobites. that's way too big"
<krondor> rick_h_:  I plan on attending :)
<rick_h_> krondor: awesome!
<snap-l> I need a sanity check
<snap-l> http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781449314118/
<snap-l> Half-off today.
<snap-l> Should I add this to the half-read list of C books that already decorate my shelves?
<brousch> C? who needs C?
<brousch> pure python d00d
<Blazeix> that cover design is like something i'd make. "hm, Head First C... how should we decorate the cover? I know! A gigantic head!"
<Blazeix> "we can put purple clip art in orbit around it!"
<snap-l> Yeah, I don't like their covers at all
<snap-l> And it's a head-first book, so it treads the line between informative and annoying
<Wolfger> snap-l: I thought about getting it, then I thought about the 2 C books I have at home that I never got through...
<Wolfger> that's the allure of "50% off!!!"
<Wolfger> plus, it's a pre-release copy, so... there will be bugs for you to find. :-)
<brousch> buffer overflows in a C book might give you a stroke
<Wolfger> That's an interesting new spam.... "You have 1 lost message on Facebook"
<Wolfger> If it's lost, how can I have it?
<Wolfger> If I have it, it's not lost.
<Wolfger> I'm not sure what's sadder... the fact that spammers think we're all morons, or the fact that enough people *are* morons that spammers keep at it.
<_stink_> the latter
<jrwren> rick_h_: did you consider bringing the boy on Saturday?
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, don't think so
<rick_h_> he'd destroy the office
<rick_h_> 20mo is as dangerous time lol
<_stink_> hah
<jrwren> nah, my kiddo will keep him in check.
<snap-l> Thoughts on this as a business card for OLF? http://ubuntuone.com/3Sp9xnHYssV0knzMAh4tPU
<brousch> things are not lined up quite right
<brousch> giant white space, or is that where your name goes?
<snap-l> I don't have much else to put in there, save for the mailing list.
<Blazeix> looks nice, but i agree with brousch that the text should be left aligned. Maybe you could move the "Ubuntu Michigan Loco" text up to fill the void.
<Blazeix> I really like that orange and black logo.
<brousch> thanks
<snap-l> Yeah, I'll do that
<Blazeix> on my current monitor (which isn't very good) it looks like you have two different shades of orange.
<snap-l> They are.
<brousch> hm, i think i used ubuntu official orange
<Blazeix> ok, I'd make the smaller logo the same color as the larger logo.
<Blazeix> the smaller logo seems kind of washed out
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/3Sp9xnHYssV0knzMAh4tPU
<brousch> well they should both be using the ubuntu orange
<snap-l> Also, the .svg if someone wants to take a crack at it. ;) http://ubuntuone.com/5CjfgTVyJMhkTF9aiUp5ld
<snap-l> I got the logo from jacob Peddicord's business card template.
<snap-l> the others use the Aubergine background
<snap-l> which would be fine if we didn't have the black circle of friends
<brousch> what if you just remove the upper ubuntu and logo
<brousch> make it just an ubuntu michigan card
<snap-l> That's fine too
<Blazeix> I'd love to take a crack at it, but I'm stuck in windows-land right now. Would it be too late to play around with it at CHC?
<brousch> Blazeix: inkscape runs on windows ;)
<snap-l> re-uploading
<brousch> ug, my hard drive is being a pokey little bitch today
<snap-l> Blazeix: If you want, I can wait a little bit
<Blazeix> brousch: yeah, but that'd require installing it :)
<snap-l> wanted to float it by the loco council just to make sure they're OK with it as well
<_stink_> snap-l: use the ubuntu software center header as your card's background.
<Blazeix> I already have it installed on linux
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, that would ROCK
<Blazeix> _stink_: haha
<_stink_> o/
<brousch> snap-l: did you modify it since 11:28:34?
<ColonelPanic001> Wolfger: I've heard that there's a form of fencing gaining popularity in Europe that doesn't use foils/rapiers/etc, and instead some other kind of medievel sword, more of a cutting sword than thrust. Any idea? I'm trying to find the name of it
<ColonelPanic001> thought with you doing SCA/etc, you might know
<snap-l> brousch: I did
<snap-l> God, that is annoying
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/1bhFyTox2dEw71YLJWj8Ct
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/7CJoxu5fH6XtXwboIhE7nI
<snap-l> I just made a QR code
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: Sabre?
<Wolfger> trying to remember the other fencing sword I know of... can't quite think of it
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/5M79pXHbcV18Knz2suInqp <- qr code
<Wolfger> snap-l: I just don't like Michigan being orange...
<snap-l> suck it. :)
<Wolfger> it should be State of Michigan blue, or great lake blue, or christmas tree green
<Wolfger> orange is the Ubuntu color... the circle of friends should be orange
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> <twitch> QR code? </twitch>
<jrwren> backing up over a VPN is probably not a good idea.
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/blr-ubuntumi-card-1.png
<snap-l> brousch: Oh, I like!
<snap-l> Get me a PDF of that, please.
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ubuntumi-card.svg
<jcastro> oh I need a smaller one
<jcastro> one sec
<brousch> export the page to the size you need
<jcastro> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1089/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011
<jcastro> make a 220x250
<snap-l> brousch: I'm going to add this QR code to it, if you don't mind.
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/4iNOElrQMzvLyMi4N5GiOr
<brousch> snap-l: go for it
<brousch> i gotta get lunch. bbl
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks!
<snap-l> Interesting, I don't have that font.
<jrwren> ok, my perl-fu is old and weak, i need help reading a regex.
<jrwren> $blah =~ s/((?>[^\\"]*(?:\\.[^\\"]*)*))/;
<jrwren> is the \\" there just escaping the " ?
<snap-l> Damnit, I don't have the same font
<jrwren> or is [^\\"] really saying a char class of \ and " ? ?
<jrwren> hehe, devinheitmueller I just asked a nice perl re question that you probably know the answer.
<jrwren> but having read it more, I think i'm wrong.
<snap-l> lunch. brb
 * devinheitmueller looks at the logs....
<devinheitmueller> so much for that idea.  Apparently ubuntu logs don't track realtime.
<Blazeix> devinheitmueller: http://vpaste.net/NV39L
<devinheitmueller> I'm pretty sure it's just escaping the quote.
<devinheitmueller> That said, you should be able to test that in about 30 seconds with a perl -e.
<devinheitmueller> Oh wait, don't use a perl -e.  Write a 2 line perl script.  That will avoid the shell from interfering with the regex.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Are you still coming to pick me up tonight?
<devinheitmueller> Sure, np.
<snap-l> Cool, thanks. :)
<devinheitmueller> Will pick you up at 7:45pm.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Tonight is early edition
<devinheitmueller> Oh wait, is this the 7pm?
<snap-l> so 6:45pm would be preferable.
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, ok.  6:45 then.
<snap-l> should I dress up ? ;)
<Wolfger> jrwren: shouldn't [^\\"] be a single character which is either ^ or \ or "
<devinheitmueller> Business casual.
<jrwren> Wolfger: [^ is a "NOT" char class
<snap-l> brousch: I think you gave me an older file
<jrwren> [^ab] <- character class for all chars that are not a or b
<Wolfger> ah, right
<Wolfger> I knew it wasn't "begining of line" within the brackets....
<snap-l> brousch: If you would work your magic on this, I'll convert it and ship it
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/6hp9Zur1CGQWkUTavShg62
<snap-l> brousch: I added the SVG of the 3D MI logo to it
<jrwren> makes me sad that my perl is so weak now.
<jrwren> i don't see why I'd need to escape " in a // block
<jrwren> and especially don't knwo why I'd need to escape teh escape char in the // block leading to /\\"/
<Wolfger> and isn't that expression missing a /?
<Wolfger> it identifies what's to be matched, but not what the substitution is
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> i should have used m//
<brousch> snap-l: you probably don't have the ubuntu fonts installed
<brousch> sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title ttf-ubuntu-font-family
<snap-l> brousch: Right, but the text isn't the same
<brousch> hm
<brousch> i wonder if they changed it from 10.04 to 11.04?
<snap-l> No, I mean the actual text
<snap-l> you changed the order of the text, but that wasn't in the .svg you sent along
<snap-l> And yes, I was missing ubuntu-title
<brousch> interesting
<brousch> how much can i shrink the qrcode before it's unusable?
<brousch> hey, a lot of places put the qrcode on the back of the card
<snap-l> I think I can print them on the back
<snap-l> That's a good idea
<jrwren> i confirmed \\ is matching \ JFYI
<jrwren> finally figuring this out. *sigh*
<snap-l> brousch: http://ubuntuone.com/6hp9Zur1CGQWkUTavShg62
<snap-l> PDF: http://ubuntuone.com/5oMNhymeAAgG9mXaPgC4gO
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/blr-ubuntumi-card-1.png
<brousch> you like that font better than the ubuntu fonts?
<brousch> the one you used?
<snap-l> brousch: eh?
<brousch> the pdf looks good, but the first one you linked to has funky fonts for me
<brousch> i must not have that font
<brousch> i'm guessing ubuntu mucked with the fonts between 10.04 and 11.04
<snap-l> Let me show you what vistaprint shows
<brousch> i like your pdf where the whole head stays in
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/3AbG9pvyWLkyRq4A5y3wDn
<brousch> does the dotted line me that will not be prined?
<snap-l> I'm not sure
<snap-l> I hope not.
<brousch> i like it other than the dotted line thing
<brousch> looks really good
<snap-l> Thanks.
<snap-l> I put a QR code on the back
<snap-l> Thanks for your help! that design really did the trick
<brousch> np, glad i could help
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/6wNy6AMch7owJ9UpDp1Cur <- here's the proof
<brousch> looks like it cut off a tiny bit
<brousch> pretty good though
<snap-l> God damn, Vistaprint is a pain in the ass
<snap-l> tries to upsell you on everything
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> the godaddy of business cards
<snap-l> Oh yeah.
<waldo323_> can you get stickers with just the bar code?
<snap-l> I could, but I wanted to get some cards or something like that
<waldo323_> right i mean as well as, or what about window clings :)
<snap-l> You're free to make them if you want. :)
<snap-l> I got a thousand cards to hand out at the booth
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dswed
<snap-l> Man, I lost a bunch of MP3s with that hard drive crash
<snap-l> And thanks to Amazon, I can't re-download them.
<brousch> doh
<rick_h_> huh? how come thanks to amazon? I thought you ripped them?
<snap-l> I bought some from Amazon
<snap-l> but I forgot to put all of them into my "purchased music" folder.
<snap-l> which would have been backed up
<snap-l> realizing that I'm missing a few of them.
<snap-l> Stuff like Combichrist's "What the fuck is wrong with you people"
<jrwren> anyone want a MF printer for free?  OfficeJet something or another.
<gamerchick02> http://gamerchick02.tumblr.com/post/9637330468/hello-i-am-the-one-with-the-graphic-you-just-reblogged i'm pleased with myself. I think i explained creative commons pretty well to that guy.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: That's the gist.
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i also did the links in there so he can get more info.
<gamerchick02> it was funny, because as it stood, nobody had the right to redistribute his work.
<Blazeix> hmm... http://pastebin.com/BKcmMd47
<Blazeix> kernel.org hacked?
<snap-l> Not good if it was.
<devinheitmueller> Well, you don't see that everyday.
<devinheitmueller> There are more details on the kernel.org homepage.
<waldo323_> wow
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: still on track to pick you up at 6:45.  About to leave....
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: you have my permission to hit rhe jackass in my driveway who is pickibg throigh my neighbors trash
<snap-l> plural
<waldo323_> snap-l, are you set for a ride or are you already gone?
<waldo323_> oh i should read more :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-09-01
<snap-l> Good evening
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> no
<brousch> 4AM gotta go potty yell makes ben a tired boy
<Wolfger> heh
<Wolfger> I woke up at 2:30 thinking it was time to get up, but it was just the low-battery beep from my work cell
<Wolfger> Then I woke up at 4:45 being positive the alarm was going off, though it shut off before I could turn it off....
<Wolfger> then at 5 the real alarm went off, and I realized that the sound at 4:45 wasn't my alarm, it was my ringtone
<Wolfger> some unrecognized number called me before 5 AM. WTF?
<brousch> that was me. i wanted to make sure you felt my pain
<rick_h_> heh, we must have all had strange nights
<Wolfger> :-p
<rick_h_> I did the "hmm, wonder what time it is: 5:58"
<rick_h_> alarm was set for 6
<CrusaderAD> Hello everyone! The global jam event is this Saturday, right?
<snap-l> That's correct.
<snap-l> 12-5
<snap-l> 12-5pm
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
<CrusaderAD> can anyone drop in, say just to "observe"?
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: Sure, if you wish, but we'd love for you to participate
<snap-l> There's no pressure
<CrusaderAD> I'm a developer but mostly for web technologies, but I'm interested in getting involved with the local Ubuntu community
<snap-l> We'll likely be trying out live images of oneiric
<snap-l> Also John Gruber will be presenting his project "Lernid", and doing a mini-sprint with it
<snap-l> Feel free to RSVP here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
<snap-l> (note: not everyone who is coming has RSVPed, so don't let that alarm you. :) )
<CrusaderAD> cool, thanks for the info!
<snap-l> no problem. Hope to see you there!
<snap-l> brb. stuck process that needs to be rebooted.
<rick_h_> gah! it's too early for NC dude to strike
<rick_h_> damn him
<brousch> damn him to hell
<brousch> wait, he's already in NC
<rick_h_> *sigh* "why do you do your this that way? It's not the way I'd do it."
<rick_h_> "How many times have you done pyramid apps before? oh right...none..."
<brousch> your ways are mysterious and frightening
<rick_h_> "Why can't you use your declarative models in your migrations?" it's bad...dont' k
<rick_h_> "but I want to..." then fine, come back when you get bit with broken migrations
<rick_h_> he's got to convince me his idea is the better way when he's never used the damn tools
<rick_h_> a nice "fine, go do it your way" never works
<snap-l> You could introduce a bit of the occult into why it's done your way
<snap-l> "because if you don't, a demon will come for your immortal soul"
<snap-l> Or, "God punishes those who break the build, and God is busy with other things, so I'm picking up the slack"
<brousch> i like that one
<nullspace> a deamon already comes for your scripts, why not your soul
<rick_h_> you have to have a build to break the build
<rick_h_> getting close to "JUST TRY IT DAMMIT!"
<brousch> how often do you meet him in person?
<nullspace> oh is rick talking about his co-worker again?
<rick_h_> brousch: so far just once at pycon
<brousch> nullspace: either that or his kid?
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> brousch: I think Michael would listen better
<nullspace> nah rick_h_'s kid only uses vim
<brousch> sometimes i want to code up learning games for my son, but by the time i have a game concept he's already gained the skill it would've taught him
<snap-l> brousch: I can relate
<brousch> i think of an alphabet game, and he's already got it down
<snap-l> You need RAD
<snap-l> also frequent input from the customer
<brousch> spelling games might last a while if i can plug in bigger words
<snap-l> Hey, teach your kid how to scrum. :)
<brousch> i don't know how to scrum
<snap-l> "Dadda, I wan' da kopuuter ble nargle flop "
<snap-l> "heeeeeeeee"
<brousch> someone i follow on twitter named their kid "Titan"
<brousch> that's a lot to live up to
<nullspace> bah my cousin who studied sociology decided to name her kid Odin
<ColonelPanic001> seems odd they'd hate their kid that much right at birth.
<rick_h_> yay for hacked linux.org ugh
<ColonelPanic001> "enjoy a lifetime of explaining every time, you little turd!"
<nullspace> brousch: does that mean that their grand children will eventuall over throw their parents
<brousch> yeah, really setting him up for a bad death
 * ColonelPanic001 listens to openmetalcast to wake up (and catch up)
<brousch> snap-l: what's the recommended Pyramid hacking music?
<brousch> if you say Genesis i will kick you in the nuts
<nullspace> hacking a Pyramid? I think I missed something here
<rick_h_> today the hacking music is BB King: Complete Collection
<brousch> is that jazz?
<nullspace> mine is RTPN
<ColonelPanic001> The obvious band to listen to while working on Pyramids is Nile.
<rick_h_> brousch: blues man, BB King...
<nullspace> could listen to Ra or Anubus tii
<snap-l> brousch: I'm not sure. I haven't hacked much in Pyramid
<snap-l> Maybe some Iron Maiden: Powerslave?
<nullspace> brousch: pyramidlinux? as in distro?
<rick_h_> gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<snap-l> nullspace: Pyramid, as in the Pylons framework.
<snap-l> Python web framework
<snap-l> rick_h_: that good?
 * snap-l tries to talk the channel down
<rick_h_> I'm not going to make it to the end of the day...I'm just not
<snap-l> What's the colorscheme of choice now?
<rick_h_> I'm back to running the updated lucius
<snap-l> I want someting with a black background
<snap-l> gray on gray just isn't cutting it for me.
<rick_h_> try darkdevel ?
<rick_h_> dammit
<rick_h_> (9:05) Rick: it's a python module
<rick_h_> (9:45) NCDude: I see how fabfile is now a package
<brousch> google chrome has added an icon to my taskbar
<brousch> must be part of the offline stuff
<rick_h_> it's google chat
<CrusaderAD> do you guys favor chrome or chromium?
 * ColonelPanic001 uses Chromium
<snap-l> I use Chrome
<brousch> chrome
<nullspace> chrome
<CrusaderAD> really? just cause of the latest and greatest releases?
<ColonelPanic001> they hate freedom
<Wolfger> If I were to have children, I'd want two boys, and name them Thor and Loki....
<Wolfger> then I'd always know which one to blame
<CrusaderAD> That would result in Ragnarok
<Wolfger> Thor, of course, would grow up to be a doctor, and change his legal name....
<nullspace> na he would become a meterologist, of course
<ColonelPanic001> "critical stop" on Club Metal #4 made me lol
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: :)
<brousch> I'm going to make my troublesome PDF file converter a real project: https://sourceforge.net/p/pdfserenitynow
<rick_h_>  on sf?!
<rick_h_> there's no code
<brousch> :P
<brousch> i just made the SF project
<rick_h_> bah, hg, hitting downloads takes me to a different ui
<rick_h_> wtf
<rick_h_> gah sf fix your crap!
<Blazeix> why sourceforge, ooc?
<Blazeix> not that I'm judging you :)
<rick_h_> leave that to me :P
<rick_h_> no, was curious to check it out
<brousch> ok, i just pushed the nasty hack script
<snap-l> Gah, hg?
<brousch> more TODO than code
<brousch> what's with the hg hate?
<brousch> ur a bunch of gits
<snap-l> yes.
<brousch> the end goal with this is to have a service where you can upload your crappy PDF and it will return a set of TIF and JPG to you or your destination
<Wolfger> what, no bazaar love in the Ubuntu crowd?
<brousch> i like the SF beta
<brousch> allura
<brousch> also i can get personal attention when i have issues with it
<snap-l> brousch: Heh. :)
<brousch> Now it has a description https://sourceforge.net/p/pdfserenitynow/home/Home/
<brousch> rick_h_: are you thoroughly disgusted by script? ;)
<brousch> my script
<rick_h_> brousch: now see, if this was on github I'd fork it, turn it into a valid python package you could pip install with a command line tool to run it and do a pull request
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> instead, no coolness
<brousch> i think you can do that on SF
<rick_h_> yea, but I'm not going to find my login, my hg cheat sheet, and figure out how sorry
<brousch> heh
<rick_h_> doing the python parts was enough work, figuring out the system is more
<brousch> i was impressed with how easy it was to edit bookie docs right in github
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/python-webpage-inliner can give you an idea how the stuff needed
<rick_h_> I forked his script to package it and such like that
<brousch> the setup.py?
<rick_h_> setup.py, directory structure, etc
<brousch> there's inliner.py in the root and in src/webpageinliner/ ?
<rick_h_> naw, sorry, that's left over. I should remove that
<brousch> i see, that's his original
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I updated it to use argparse, etc
<rick_h_> to left a orig around while I killed it
<brousch> very useful
<rick_h_> yea, check out modern-package-template
<brousch> i don't think i've ever gone as far as making something a real python package
<rick_h_> anyway, once you do this you can sudo pip install mypackage
<rick_h_> and then get a command line tool mypackage to run
<rick_h_> I've started doing it for all kinds of tools so it's eaiser to script/use them
<rick_h_> tab completion, etc
<brousch> yeah, it makes sense
<rick_h_> that might make a good CHC meeting thing sometime
<brousch> if i use git, could i push to github and SF easily?
<jrwren> someone should write software that moves any other source to github. so you can point it to sourceforge or googlecode, give it proj name and say "move to github" or "find on github" if soeone has already mirrored
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, you can setup two remotes
<rick_h_> and an alias that pushes to both
<brousch> it just occurred to me that this is a perfect project for python3
<brousch> few dependencies, and by the time i get to the web gui there should be some python3 options
<brousch> ok, so which comes first, cloning the empty repo to create the project, or paster command to create modern-package-template?
<brousch> i suppose clone, then create inside that dir
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> you could just clone your existing repo, do the paster command, move your files around and start fitting into place
<brousch> i think i got that now
<brousch> now to edit some of the boilerplate files
<rick_h_> yep
<brousch> and to rebuild the egg and such?
<rick_h_> yea, so once you get setup.py happy you can python setup.py develop
<rick_h_> to load the dev version up so it keeps up to date
<rick_h_> python setup.py sdist will create a .tar.gz that you can pip install locally
<brousch> ok
<brousch> oh crap, lunch is half over
<jrwren> jcastro: your post on the fridge has a bullet "We now have a Weekly Meeting at 1800UTC on #ayatana on Freenode IRC if you feel like hanging with us and getting organized and ask questions"  but does not say which day of week
<jcastro> ooh
<jcastro> fixing
<jcastro> hah, that hasn't changed in months
<jcastro> and no one noticed
<jcastro> <3 attention to detail jayrwren
<snap-l> I looked at it as well, but said "meh". ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: gets half a cookie, jrwren a full cookie!
<snap-l> Meh, I don't think I deserve a cookie. :)
<jrwren> i just read jcastro links.
<jrwren> that is all.
<jrwren> hrm... i think i am glad I don't work at MSFT https://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/387162426.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1314897500&Signature=S2Tu2FJpc5zwo2TgvP9GBmBQPW8%3D
<jrwren> i don't want my office to look like that
<snap-l> jrwren: glad someone does. ;)
<snap-l> jrwren: Hahahahahahahahaha
<snap-l> It keeps out the bad thoughts, though
<snap-l> Not to mention the minimal RF interference from the computers. ;)
<jrwren> yup.
<snap-l> God, that reminds me of an old photo
<snap-l> http://gallery.cinciclassic.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1171
<snap-l> We had to wrap the newer consoles because something was generating enough RF to make them all act wonky.
<The_Machine> any of you guys know cisco stuff well?  Like ASA 5000 series devices?
<snap-l> I know crisco better than cisco
<brousch> i am familiar with Cpt Sisko. Does that help?
<brousch> snap-l: i'm trying to recruit the guy you helped with the x120e efi issue into helping with the loco table at olf
<brousch> due to your willingness to help and my light slathering of guilt, you may have a volunteer ;)
<brousch> vim is growing on me
<jrwren> gross, cut it off
<brousch> i thought it was a symbiot, not a parasite!
<jrwren> interesting
<snap-l> brousch: Cool
<snap-l> brousch: responded
<brousch> holy crapinahat, it works. thanks rick_h_, i now have an installable package and command line program
<brousch> i can even add it to pypi
<brousch> somehow it even know to run with python3
<brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=pkg_edit&name=pdfserenitynow
<snap-l> nice!
<snap-l> I haven't played with that at all
<snap-l> though that's a dream when I actually have some working code to push out
<_stink_> yeah, modern-package-template made work much easier for me
<brousch> hah, it pip-installs
<brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pdfserenitynow/0.1
<brousch> i am 1337
<snap-l> uh oh
<snap-l> power just went out
<snap-l> OK, powering down.
<CrusaderAD> Hey anyone here testing the new beta?
<_stink_> i'm still on 10.04 :P
<brousch> rick_h_: shouldn't your python inliner thing require argparse?
<CrusaderAD> _stink_: unity hater?
<rick_h_> brousch: it's built into python 2.7
<rick_h_> ruh roh, no snapl, this could make a podcast interesting tonight
<rick_h_> brousch: sweet! congrats on your first package
<brousch> yeah, but for python 2.6?
<rick_h_> sol? :P
<brousch> very nice!
<rick_h_> yea, for lower than 2.7 you'd have to install argparse
<rick_h_> which can be added to the setup.py requires
<CrusaderAD> you guys know of any good tutorials on python? like simple hello world stuff?
<brousch> so should that be in the setup.py requires section?
<rick_h_> yea, I'm not sure how to do it dependant on the python version though
<brousch> CrusaderAD: print("Hello, World!")
<rick_h_> sure there must be some way
<CrusaderAD> brousch: is python good for gui stuff?
<brousch> rick_h_: darn, it's not smart enough to realize argparse is already part of python3.2. it downloads and installs it
<brousch> CrusaderAD: as good as anything else
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's what I was saying. Need some way to specify the check
<brousch> i was hoping it would be smart enough to check that
<rick_h_> actually, I guess it'd be easy
<rick_h_> you'd just add an if block on setup.py to change the install_requires list based on the current python verion
<rick_h_> version
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6080646/install-requires-in-setup-py-depending-on-installed-python-version
<rick_h_> for example
<brousch> hm, could do a different setup.py for 2.6
<rick_h_> well < python 2.7 in my case
<rick_h_> but yea
<brousch> darn your google foo
<rick_h_> hey, well I thought of it first, then found the example :P
<brousch> awesome, it worked
<brousch> i forget that kind of thing is python, so you can do whatever to it
<brousch> aparently argparse is not in python3 or 3.1, so it was a litte more difficult
<rick_h_> ah, yea
<brousch> probably cleanest to start with a requires for all versions, then append the special requirements for each different version
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/400/
<rick_h_> yea, aweomse
<rick_h_> thanks
<rick_h_> prepping for podcast now, but will try it out later
<rick_h_> I've run into that with another thing a co-worker grabbed today
<rick_h_> so something I should have been looking to do before
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-09-02
<brousch> i'm trying to get 0.2 out the door tonight
<rick_h_> :)
<brousch> small improvements
<brousch> pushed it. this is too much fun
<rick_h_> ruh roh, he's got the bug now
<brousch> yeah, and tomorrow is my wedding anniversary, so i probably won't be able to touch it ;)
<rick_h_> welcome to life hacking on OSS in your spare time
<rick_h_> why I do weekly status reports, helps remind me I did get some progress each week
<snap-l> rick_h_: Got power back
<snap-l> firing up the rig
<rick_h_> k, doing interview
<jcastro> hey snap-l
<jcastro> do the dalek voices stay irritating throughout dr. who?
<jcastro> finishing up S01 right now
<snap-l> Yes, but they don't show up much
<jcastro> this first season is dorkfest
<snap-l> Blame 1960s recording for those voices
<snap-l> give it time
<jcastro> it''s very much like TNG's horrible first season
<jcastro> I can tell it will be good
<jcastro> I like cheesy
<snap-l> once you get to Tennant, it'll be awesome
<jcastro> is that an episode?
<snap-l> That's an actor
<snap-l> David Tennant
<jcastro> is the tardis sound from the 60s?
<snap-l> 10th doctor
<jcastro> it sounds like it
<snap-l> yep
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> he's coming up
<jcastro> he looks very british
<snap-l> It's a piano board
<jcastro> is he the fan fave or something?
<snap-l> yes, he's scottish
<snap-l> he's just a damn good actor
<snap-l> (The tardis sound is a piano string slowed down with some effects)
<jcastro> ah
<snap-l> But yeah, that's a classic sound.
<snap-l> If you really like cheese, try the Tom Baker episodes once you've gotten in to the David Tennant doctor
<snap-l> The Key of Time is especially wonky.
<jcastro> is he the 11th?
<snap-l> Matt Smith is 11.
<snap-l> David Tennant is 10
<jcastro> I am watching 9 turn into 10 right now
<snap-l> and you'll want to watch Tennant before watching Matt Smith
<snap-l> Ah, good
<jcastro> how come this dude was only around for one season
<jcastro> I kind of like him
<snap-l> so you're beyond Bad Wolf, etc?
<snap-l> I don't think they expected it to continue
<jcastro> I am ending bad wolf
<jcastro> last episode of S01
<jcastro> oh, looks like the doctor just had light coming out of his mouth
<snap-l> Yea, that was good, but it gets better
<jcastro> not dying
<snap-l> regeneration
<snap-l> (long story)
<jcastro> yeah I am familiar with it
<jcastro> I thought they were going into that
<jcastro> but it was something else
<jcastro> he's still #9 so far
<jcastro> I am conflicted though
<jcastro> I only noticed "Bad Wolf" in one episode up to this point
<jcastro> which means now I have to freaking go back and find them all
<snap-l> Too bad you're not in MI
<snap-l> I have S1-5 on DVD
<snap-l> er, 1-4
<snap-l> S5 is Matt Smith, and I don't have that yet.
<jcastro> oh ok, now he regenned
<jcastro> lol this guy is way more english
<snap-l> jcastro: Let me know when you start buying Tardises on thinkgeek
<snap-l> because it will happen
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> I already asked the uk team for pics of them in tardises
<jcastro> http://visualcrack.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/dr_who_tennant_narrowweb__300x4300.jpg
<jcastro> lol
<jcastro> tell me that isn't the most english thing you've ever seen ^
<snap-l> Oh totally
<jcastro> hey
<jcastro> is it the same dude when he regens?
<jcastro> or just a new body?
<snap-l> New dude
<snap-l> new personality
<snap-l> but same person
<jcastro> oh ok
<jcastro> so each one is unique, but still the same
<jcastro> like Dax. :)
<snap-l> yeah
<snap-l> *sigh* like dax
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> so in the real world
<jcastro> do they change the doctor like when they want to refresh the show?
<snap-l> Actor changes
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> so is it like "so and so wants to move on, new doctor time"
<jcastro> or is it "ratings sucking, people are getting sick of this guy, new blood time."
<jcastro> like, if they would have said "same TNG, just no more picard, new captain", we would have rioted in the streets
<jcastro> though, I suppose with this show it's expected to have new doctors
<snap-l> Nah, more like actor wants to move on
<jcastro> snap-l: man, it's like I found a whole new world to play in
<snap-l> initially it was because the first doctor just got too old to continue
<snap-l> yep
<jcastro> also
<jcastro> see my last blog
<jcastro> and get yourself some bon scott
<snap-l> That good, eh?
<snap-l> rick_h_: http://getsatisfaction.com/kobo/topics/kobos_are_a_bad_deal
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> Right between the eyes
<Blazeix> snap-l: well written post! 'Darrel' is pretty ballsy to just copy-paste 'pls to be giving me ticket number.'
<snap-l> Thanks.
<snap-l> I think 'Darrel' is likely an outsourced person who got stuck with a bad situation
<jcastro> what's a kobo?
<snap-l> eBook reader platform similar to Kindle
<snap-l> they have iOS readers as well as eBook hardware
<jcastro> are they epubs or what?
<snap-l> Yeah, they are
<snap-l> Used to be partnered with Borders
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> http://ryanbigg.com/2010/12/ubuntu-ruby-rvm-rails-and-you/
<snap-l> "Under no circumstance should you install Ruby, Rubygems or any Ruby-related packages from apt-get. This system is out-dated and leads to major headaches. Avoid it for Ruby-related packages. We do Ruby, we know what's best. Trust us.
<brousch> heh
<brousch> understandable
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm cleaning out the ruby packages
<snap-l> may give things a go under rvm to see what happens
<snap-l> I mean, it's not their fault. I don't use .debs for python, save to bootstrap virtualenv
<Wolfger> Morning.
<Wolfger> Yeah, apt-get fails sometimes....
<Wolfger> on the other hand, they could run their own repository and allow people to apt-get the "good stuff".
<snap-l> Of course, this really makes me nervous:
<snap-l> With git-core and curl installed weâll be able to install RVM with this command:
<snap-l> bash < <(curl -s https://rvm.beginrescueend.com/install/rvm)
<snap-l> Yeah, this is getting done in a VM first
<snap-l> I'm writing up a little blog post about this
<rick_h_> cool, I keep thinking of playing with some ruby and messing with rvm/bundler
<snap-l> Well, it's going to be a little inflammatory. :)
<snap-l> Mostly "please package this"
<snap-l> Ho boy.
<snap-l> rvm install 1.8
<snap-l> essentially does curl to download ..
<snap-l> curl: (78) RETR response: 550
<snap-l> ERROR: The requested url does not exist: 'ftp://ftp.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/1.8/ruby-1.8-.tar.bz2'
<snap-l> Starting to think Python developers are rocket scientists by comparison. :)
<snap-l> it is cool though that you can use different versions of ruby
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<_stink_> hi
<snap-l> blergh, who ordered the humidity?
<jjesse> i couldn't believe how hot it was last night when i went for my run at 7pm
<snap-l> Yeah, I'd believe it
<ColonelPanic001> high of 67 on Monday.
<ColonelPanic001> 98 today, 67 Monday
<ColonelPanic001> I listened to the raido and did this: >:-| >:-| :-\  ... :D
 * ColonelPanic001 is an artist
<snap-l> heh
<Wolfger> Monday is going to be beautiful
<snap-l> OK, I have to recant
<snap-l> RVM is beautiful
<snap-l> the install makes my ops side twitch like crazy, but using it is nice.
<snap-l> and bundler is pretty sweet
<snap-l> It's a little slow, though
<snap-l> And by little slow, I mean on the order of minutes.
<Wolfger> That's slow. I don't think anything has taken "minutes" since the last time I booted XP  ;-)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://blog.dynatrace.com/2011/09/02/how-server-side-performance-affects-mobile-user-experience/
<rick_h_> exactly part of what I was chatting about last night
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh, no doubt
<rick_h_> love that, mobile site takes longer for the phone than the non-mobile lol
<snap-l> streamlining to one request is going to be good no matter how you slice it
<rick_h_> well I mean the one domain vs multiple domains
<snap-l> That too
<rick_h_> using a static.xxx and such is a big win
<snap-l> Wasn't arguing against that at all. :)
<rick_h_> just thought it was funny to see an article right after our lococast chat
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> kind of cool, been getting better uverse speeds with the tv service off
<Wolfger> makes sense
<jrwren> snap-l: saw your tweet about ruby pkgs.
<jrwren> I'm torn on this issue.
<jrwren> IMO rvm and gem works so well, I don't see the point in solving the problem.
<jrwren> I'm not even sure ruby should be packaged for ubuntu
<jrwren> that said, what if I want to run on a system w/o compiler, or a cpu memory contrained system where compiler is not practical.
<jrwren> I guess ruby is too slow and bloated to run on a cpu&memory contrained system. ;p
<snap-l> jrwren: Well, it's the same with python and Perl
<snap-l> They have their own repos that they like to use
<snap-l> I'm also once again having fun trying to get postgresql to work with Ruby.
<jrwren> not exactly teh same, since the distro itself uses TONS of python and perl
<jrwren> i don't know that ubuntu uses ruby itself.
<jrwren> ..
<jrwren> does anyone who is coming to the jam tomorrow have some shrink tubing that they could bring and sell to me? I need as small as possible
<snap-l> jrwren: It doesn't, but you can install it if needed
<snap-l> And this is where we remember that installing a database adapter in Ruby is a severe pain in the ass
<jrwren> is it?
<jrwren> i just gem install mysql :p
<snap-l> gem uninstall jrwren
<snap-l> Hm, still here.
<snap-l> huzzah! I have tracks again
<_stink_> so what was the key? getting rid of all packaged ruby?
<snap-l> yes
<jrwren> lame.
<jrwren> so you are all rvm now?
<snap-l> Well, and using RVM
<jrwren> hilarious!
<snap-l> yep
<jrwren> so... what is the right thing for ubuntu in general?
<snap-l> In general? get someone to update the gem packages in a more timely fashion
<snap-l> Good luck with that
<jrwren> well, perhaps WE should do that?
<jrwren> or maybe there is a ruby ppa that makes a good rvm alternative?
<snap-l> I know that redhat / fedora have a pretty nice way to package up Python eggs as RPMs
<snap-l> maybe if there was a scripted and repeatable way to create gem packages
<jrwren> i'm sure there is.
<jrwren> i know deb has it for cpan modules and eggs.
<snap-l> Also would help if the Rub community wasn't so mac centric where packaging is essentially brew or macports
<jrwren> there has to be some good debian pattern and tools for ruby gems
<jrwren> no, its not brew and macports at all.  its all rvm and gem from source.
<snap-l> jrwren: What I meant was that brew and macports are used just to lay the groundwork to install the gems
<jrwren> and ruby community is still 99% deploy onto linux. The Mac stuff is just for the dev env.
<jrwren> ah yeah, brew and macports for the C deps
<snap-l> _stink_: also I ran into trouble with my old tracks install
<snap-l> _stink_: I installed new, and redid the config files
<_stink_> it's been a while since i used tracks.  there's a reliable export/import?
<_stink_> i would guess so.
<snap-l> I'm not sure
<snap-l> I just have evening backups of postgresql to help be be bold. ;)
<_stink_> heh, phew.
<_stink_> unless you use each reinstall as a chance to cut stuff from your list.
<snap-l> Nah, I just do a db:migrate and hope things don't blow up
<snap-l> and if they do, i grab a backup. ;)
<_stink_> i would love it if my todo list blew up :P
<snap-l> what will be interesting is to see how this will work for a reboot
<snap-l> _stink_: trust me, you wouldn't
<_stink_> i guess that's why i should do the weekly review
<snap-l> _stink_: It's not like it all goes away
<snap-l> _stink_: ahem... (wheels out the soapbox) if you're not doing the weekly review, you're not doing GTD.
<_stink_> i confess fully that i'm not doing GTD :)
<_stink_> i use multiple tags!
<snap-l> Of course, if you're blowing up your system on a weekly basis, you're not doing GTD either.
<_stink_> hehe
<Wolfger> "doing getting"? I think you've inserted a superfluous verb there...
<snap-l> "Getting Things Done" is a trademark for the system.
<Wolfger> Ah, I see.
<Wolfger> I rather disagree with allowing a sentence fragment that describes a process to be trademarked, but since when did IP lawyers start listening to me? :-p
<Wolfger> ...and nixternal shows up on the front page of a Google search for that sentence fragment. LOL
<Wolfger> Shawn Powers too
<snap-l> Only my random album mix could go from Herbie Hancock to The Faceless
<snap-l> blergh... time to relocate to the bedroom
<rick_h_> heat is rising
<snap-l> Yeah, it is
<snap-l> damn scammers
<snap-l> apparently if you put your resume on monster.com, you'll get nothing but boiler-room scams
<krondor> snap-l:  are you interested in a career change?  work from home, be your own boss, flexible hours, no limit to your earning!
<snap-l> even better: we need your bank account numbe for direct deposit (and withdrawl)
<gamerchick02> Monster, Careerbuilder, etc. they all attract scams.
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm glad I removed my stuff from there
<gamerchick02> i get porn spam from them, seriously.
<gamerchick02> i did too. well, i have an account, but there's nothing in it *creepy woo-woo noises*
<snap-l> Wow, that's awesome
<snap-l> was it at least good porn spam?
<gamerchick02> no. it was strange porn spam
<gamerchick02> this was several years ago though.
<gamerchick02> i get more stiffy pill spam now though
<snap-l> Might come in handy someday; you never know.
<snap-l> (note: not really)
<gamerchick02> hehe
<nullspace> silly script of the day http://se7enlabs.org/img_swril.js
<Blazeix> nice
<_stink_> damnit.  anyone know of a desktop jabber client that supports anonymous logins?  empathy and pidgin don't afaict.
<ColonelPanic001> no
<_stink_> :(
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ahhh! http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/amazon-kindle-tablet/
<rick_h_> "As far as the existing e-ink-based Kindles, all Iâve heard is that theyâll continue to co-exist with this new tablet (though the DX may or may not stick around). "
<Blazeix> "Amazon has been working on a multi-touch screen/e-ink hybrid tablet device. But thatâs nowhere near completion, Iâm told."
<rick_h_> yea, I've heard that there are some devices testing that out
<Blazeix> I'm sure they'll keep e-ink around, but I hope they have another release between now and that rumored device.
<rick_h_> but the thicknesses/tricks involved is a bit crazy
<rick_h_> and the price of dual displays in there...
<rick_h_> jrwren: looks like I will be out tomorrow
<rick_h_> if you can still bring out my power cord
<rick_h_> that's be grat
<rick_h_> great that is
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/video-der-kritzler-an-automatic-scribbling-machine/ kind of cool arduino
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-09-03
<snap-l> Well, that was fun
<rick_h_> snap-l: power?
<rick_h_> snap-l: heading to AA tomorrow
<rick_h_> you carpooling?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, we can carpool if you want
<snap-l> JoDee and I are heading down
<snap-l> around 10:45am
<rick_h_> I'm fuzzy on when I'm leaving still. Want to do the farmer's market with the boy and such and probably won't be back until 10ish
<rick_h_> ok cool, might just squeeze there
<snap-l> Farmers in Royal Oak, or farmers elsewhere?
<rick_h_> here local
<snap-l> OK, because Royal Oak, is a clusterbleep
<rick_h_> every sat we take the boy to the farmer's market and there's a community part next to it
<rick_h_> so we end up hitting htat at 8, parking it until 9-10
<rick_h_> ok cool, will ping you tomorrow
<rick_h_>  /out
<snap-l> That's cool
<snap-l> laterness
 * snap-l is downloading beta images for tomorrow
<Blazeix> rick_h_: have you seen http://vimeo.com/yayquery/videos ?
<Blazeix> some cool JS videos, like jquery mobile, backbone.js, etc
<rick_h_> Blazeix: no, hadn't seen those
<rick_h_> will check them out
<brousch> sorry i won't get to hang out today
<snap-l> WE be jammin
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> DOing the upgrade again
<snap-l> woo woo
<jjesse> hows the bug jam these days?
<snap-l> Well, I installed Oneiric on my laptop
<jjesse> and do you love it?
<snap-l> Meh, there's some bugs
<snap-l> banshee is fucked.
<jjesse> that sucks
<jjesse> my netbook won't boot :(
<snap-l> Ugh
<jjesse> 3rd install finally sucesful on m y netbook
<jjesse> boo
<snap-l> Has anyone gotten Banshee running?
<jjesse> i can't get online on my beta copy, getting some wierd message about the version of networkmanager bieng wrong
<snap-l> nice
<jjesse> awesome need restricted drivers to get wifi to work and someone in #kubuntu-devel just pointed me to a .deb file i have to download to get the fix
<jjesse> and i can't get online on wired due to the problem not right version of network manager
<jjesse> bug #838099 has been fixed but no way to download fix :(
<snap-l> Lovely
<snap-l> OK, packing up
<snap-l> see you guys later!
<snap-l> I did not realize vistaprint was in livonia
<snap-l> I would not have ordered the 7 day shipping for extra $$
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-09-04
<brousch> ahahahahahahha
<brousch> they will strap it to a turtle to make sure it arrives on time
<snap-l> Well, that's what I figured
<snap-l> and also thought it was priority mail, not UPS
<snap-l> priority mail would show up whenever
<snap-l> UPS would send it to the moon so it arriveson day 24
<snap-l> Hang on to your hats
<snap-l> It's windy out there.
<_stink_> lightning is putting on quite a show, too
<snap-l> WEll, something is on fire by us
<snap-l> I unplugged everything
<snap-l> still have power, but damn
<snap-l> saw green arcs in the sky
<_stink_> yeah, green all over
<_stink_> we were just driving back from Target on Coolidge, so coming south
<_stink_> toward it
<_stink_> crazy show
<snap-l> Wow.
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm hoping that folks are OK
<_stink_> looks like the worst stayed south
<snap-l> Yeah, we have some downed lines
<snap-l> fortunately we still have power
<_stink_> good
<_stink_> there is this ominous tree in our backyard that we badly need to remove
<snap-l> yipes
<brousch> we've had nothing all day
<_stink_> ruh roh
<_stink_> hope that wasn't his power
<brousch> hehe
<rick_h_> doh
<_stink_> snap-l: thought that might've been your power.
<snap-l> Nah, we're fine.
<snap-l> Didn't lose power, fortunately.
<snap-l> Finishing up the lococast.
<snap-l> Ugh, too early, and no sleep
<rick_h_> ugh, no sleep?
<snap-l> Low levels because of allergies
<snap-l> Uploading lococast to dropbox
<snap-l> Gave it a quick listen, will listen in the car to see if there's any major boo-boos
<snap-l> rick_h_: ^^
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool, thanks for the heads up
<rick_h_> will try to get it a listen
<brousch> icloud on amazon? bwahahahahah http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/02/icloud_runs_on_microsoft_azure_and_amazon/
<brousch> azure!
<rick_h_> heh, did you doubt?
<rick_h_> not like it's going to run on apple xserve :)
<brousch> i assumed a bsd
<brousch> or linux
<rick_h_> well ec2 is linux
<rick_h_> I am curious what azure stuff...
<rick_h_> snap-l: sounds good here
<rick_h_> strange listening to myself while at the gym
<rick_h_> some kind of meta stuff there
<rick_h_> anyone want to buy a http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html in black?
<rick_h_> $50
<brousch> rick_h_: gym and diet?
<brousch> you're gonna be lean and mean
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, will settle for "better"
<jrwren> icloud?  apples?
<jrwren> if it runs on azure and amazon, wtf are those huge apple datacenters for?
<rick_h_> well I tohght there was only one huge datacenter
<jrwren> true.
<jrwren> that article said striped over the two. i'll bet its more like same data on both, so that they can leverage the other for cost.
<rick_h_> and is that officially online? I guess I kept hearing it was close, but never heard it got started
<jrwren> "MSFT is cheaper, lower your price" while at the same time "AMZN is cheaper, lower your price"
<rick_h_> yea, well I'm guessing it's not going to rely on one for everything
<jrwren> and being able to move to one or the other instantly is a lot of leverage
<rick_h_> even to be able to start out like this, make it compatible with your own DC, and as you need to scale can leverage outside sources
<rick_h_> slow down the need for a second DC
<brousch> i just love the idea of icloud hosted by microsoft
<jrwren> rick_h_: exactly. it sounds like a great strategy. its nice to see someone using that strat, instead of all-in with a single vendor.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome. Yeah, sounded OK in the car to me
<snap-l> playlist is updated
<rick_h_> heh cool
<rick_h_> just got up the post
<rick_h_> will add that in then
<snap-l> I mean it's the same one that was uploaded
<snap-l> no changes since this AM
<snap-l> Just got back from Put-In-Bay
<snap-l> man, that whole town is dedicated to boats and alcohol. :)
<rick_h_> sounds good
<rick_h_> yea sorry, was lookiung in the show notes
<rick_h_> ok, so want me to push tonight?
<rick_h_> or wait?
<rick_h_> snap-l: really like the music this time around
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: I say just push it.
<snap-l> We can promote it later if you want
<rick_h_> I put it all out
<snap-l> Coolness
<snap-l> Love the photo. :)
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> Definitely check out Lorenzo's music
<snap-l> It's Tom Ray (of Music Manumit)
<snap-l> OK, off to eat. bbl.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-27
<widox> rick_h_: 1st para under Complications "the celery tas3k"
<rick_h_> widox: ty
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> bah, I hate saying 'ummm, no' in pull requests.
<rick_h_> it's nice to get some, but ugh
<brousch> What's wrong with it?
<rick_h_> well the one is done the way I'd like and his response is 'well it's better than what's there' and I don't want to do the work unless we do it right
<rick_h_> the second one is just going to require a lot of clean up. It's done hte hackiest way possible and I'll have to refactor it a bunch for a use case I don't case about, but he does
<rick_h_> don't care about that is
<brousch> ug
<brousch> rick_h_: What's the brilliant idea?
<brousch> Or is it in stealth mode?
<rick_h_> brousch: for a work thing. s/undisclosed/protected
<rick_h_> I'm demo'ing my ui mockup work to my team this morning
<brousch> Cool
<snap-l> good morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> maybe
<snap-l> fiddlesticks
<rick_h_> anyone want to come out for lunch? 12-2:30?
<rick_h_> please
<jrwren> rick_h_: i did not get anywhere with watchdog, still need to spend some time with it.
<rick_h_> jrwren: ok cool, just curious. Was doing some hacking this weekend
<brousch> I want to, but I can't
<jrwren> hacking at that part?
<rick_h_> jrwren: was merging a pull request in the makefile and saw it (not directly related)
<rick_h_> man I hate listening to TWiT when they have apple fans on ugh
<PainBank> I hate listening to TWiT for 2 hours, but the 20 mins of good parts are worth the hassle.
<rick_h_> yea, it's background stuff
<PainBank> I haven't found a decent tech podcast as an alternative though.
<PainBank> got any suggestions?
<rick_h_> skip podcasts :P
<PainBank> haha, true.
<rick_h_> I've cut way back
<PainBank> Cast of Dads is fun.  short and not too often.
<PainBank> but not tech focused.
<shakes808> good morning all
<jrwren> which twit? i wan to listen to the apple fans :)
<jrwren> i've got a list of developer podcasts, but not general tech
<rick_h_> this last week's one
<jrwren> Developing Perspective, Giant Robots Smashing into other giant robots, Hanselminutes, In Beta, Radio Free Python, Ruby5, The Talk Show With John Gruber
<jrwren> i'm watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnEhDOKoxA
<jrwren> then I'll tune into the last twit
<PainBank> jrwren: thanks.  I'll check em out.
<brousch> I like The Linux Action Show, but it has fallen off a bit due to one of the hosts leaving
<jrwren> there is some other python podcast that is IMO just terrible. It is a guy rambling about whatever. I listened to 2 or 3 episodes and got zero value out of it.
<brousch> jrwren: Python 411
<jrwren> that might be it.
<brousch> I want to punch that guy in the head whenever I listen
<jrwren> now i'm pretty sure that is i.
<brousch> He is done though
<jrwren> i wish him well.
<brousch> I swear he was eating during the podcast
<brousch> Could hear his lips smacking
<jrwren> maybe
<brousch> Radio Free Python is good. The host seems a little arrogant, but the content is good
<PainBank> what is the Python podcast with the metal head host?
<PainBank> too bad that one doesn't produce many podcasts...
<jrwren> hosts are often like that.
<rick_h_> yep :)
<PainBank> I do like The Command Line
<jrwren> on second thought, I think i'll skip twit
<snap-l> I can't stand the Linux Action Show
<snap-l> or the Linux Link Tech Show (What little I've heard)
<brousch> Too exciting for you?
<snap-l> No, I don't care enough to hear a rundown of the latest news that's already a week old
<PainBank> you all seen this yet: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102594989/Samsung-Apple-Oct-5-2010-Licensing
<snap-l> No, I'm done with Apple. :)
<PainBank> haha, well, they are not done with you. :D
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2012/08/26/apple-vs-samsung-and-the-no-derivatives-clause/
<snap-l> PainBank: So, the allegation is Apple v. Samsung is a license deal gone south?
<PainBank> yup
<PainBank> that is what it looks like to me.  or at least, Apple gave them the chance to start off with...
<nullspace> oh man another kernel update... it's gotten to the point I don't bother reading the updates
<nullspace> more than likely it doesn't add or improve anything I would notice or know about anyway
<jrwren> fixed a bug in some driver for some hardware you don't have.
<snap-l> That Tulip Ethernet card is going to perform awesome with that Kernel upgrade. ;)
<jrwren> lol, those are old cards, but I gues if you aren't gigabit, they work great.
<snap-l> rick_h_: That bad, eh? (was re: tweet)
<rick_h_> yea, having fun today...is it over yet?
<snap-l> Not yet
<shakes808> snap-l: rick_h_: Can you try going to www.nunit.org please? It won't load up on my computer for some reason. Want to know if it is their site or if my work blocked it. Thank you
<rick_h_> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.nunit.org shakes808
<shakes808> thank you rick_h_. That is an interesting site. I am guessing it is a way around firewalls and proxys
<rick_h_> well it's checking from different servers out there
<rick_h_> so if it can't access it via any of it's connections, it's going to say it's not just you
<shakes808> That is pretty slick like rick ;)
<snap-l> Um, it reports that google.com is down
<snap-l> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com
<snap-l> at least it did for me initially.
<snap-l> I'd take that site with a small grain of salt.
<shakes808> I plan on making an appearance at CHC this Wednesday. A coworker might join me as well. He likes the idea of CHC ;)
<snap-l> That said, nunit.org seems down.
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> poor nunit!
<shakes808> jrwren: You are the C# person, correct?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> what do you need?
<shakes808> just wanted you opinion about unit testing, what do you use?
<jrwren> nunit
<jrwren> mostly because I like the runner
<shakes808> as of right now there isn't any unit testing set in place and was wondering if that is a good way to go or another avenue would be better
<jrwren> i'd go nunit.
<jrwren> gotta run, bbl
<shakes808> coworker said that he knows and likes rhinomocks
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> take care
<shakes808> thank you for the quick answer ;)
<Blazeix> shakes808: there are two different parts to testing, one is a test runner, like nunit or xunit; the second is the mocking library.
<Blazeix> you could use both nunit and rhinomocks together
<shakes808> interesting
<shakes808> The little bit of unit testing that I have been exposed to is the short time working with Pyramid around CHC
<Blazeix> so you could use nunit to set up test methods and classes, and rhinomocks to set up your test data objects.
<shakes808> interesting. I will have to look more deeply into this
<Blazeix> i'm personally a fan of the moq library in C#. i use that with mstest.
<shakes808> is there an all-in-one?
<Blazeix> not that i know of, though i haven't done much research. they're sort of two separate concerns.
<Blazeix> you might try reading: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163904.aspx
<Blazeix> that will give you a decent intro to what mocking is
<Blazeix> maybe some of the python peeps like rick_h_ or snap-l can relate them to the pyramid testing you've done
<snap-l> Unit Testing is for bedwetters, not real coders. (j/k)
<Blazeix> real programmers simply use the haskell type system to prove their program is correct.
<rick_h_> there you go
<rick_h_> less tests more types ftw
<rick_h_> tests are for lazy devs :P
<snap-l> Haskell? ADA.
<snap-l> Throw an exception if your flaoting point types don't match. ;)
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/fossworldproblems/comments/yva4m/i_finally_got_my_tiling_window_manager_configured/
<Blazeix> pshaw, if it doesn't use vim-like commands it isn't worth using :)
<Blazeix> actually, i'd like to extend that to most software.
<rick_h_> +1
<jrwren> shakes808: rhinomocks works great with nunit.
<jrwren> +2
<shakes808> jrwren: Thank you. I was just looking into that :D
<rick_h_> so who wants to come over and help me move these into the house? http://ubuntuone.com/4eVf4CRSXMDXwzGprFfapH
<devinheitmueller> I would help, but the commute is a bit far for me.
<rick_h_> oh come on, what's a plane flight between friends?
<devinheitmueller> I actually did fly to Detroit once to help a friend drive a car back to New Jersey.
<brousch> That's a lot of flooring
<devinheitmueller> But hey, if you're willing to cover the cost of the flight, I would be happy to help.
<rick_h_> brousch: 650sq ft + 10% I guess
<rick_h_> 24/box * 28 boxes = 672sq ft
<jrwren> real hardwood?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, hickory
<rick_h_> dream floor going down, not moving for a looong while now
<jrwren> nice.
<rick_h_> die carpet die!
<brousch> Rugs 4 life!
<rick_h_> oh I'll have to pick up a couple of area rugs, a hallway runner
<rick_h_> but nothing I can't take out back and beat
<rick_h_> next year I'll try out some of that fancy cork stuff in my office maybe, but wood ftw!
<widox> rick_h_: cork is nice, had it in my kitchen
<rick_h_> widox: cool, yea it seems like a good floor for the basement office
<brousch> So when it floods you can walk on it like a raft?
<shakes808> Back, sorry meetings and such. Just found out VS / MS already has a unit testing library. How is that one? .... Or is that the reason NUnit came along, is because it wasn't that great?
<Blazeix> yeah, that's mstest, the one i use.
<Blazeix> i like it, good visual studio integration.
<Blazeix> i think it might be a PITA to get it automatically running in continuous integration environments
<Blazeix> which is where nunit shines, because it was The One True Testrunner for a while.
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> Thank you
<jrwren> shakes808: i really hate the VS/MS "MSTEST" :)
<jrwren> its not extensible in places it should be, typical idiotic MS stuff like sealed classes for no reason, sealed methds for no reason.
<jrwren> and what Blazeix said about getting a build server up and running... you have to install an expensive VS on the build server
<snap-l> Also, there's a pragmatic programmer book on C# and NUnit, and apparently a coupon code for 40% off: randy_lives_63077563
<snap-l> (good for a few hours)
<Blazeix> shakes808: i wouldn't stress out too much about picking a testing framework. go ahead with nunit, and if you ever do need to switch for some reason, it's not a big deal.
<jrwren> agreed.
<shakes808> Just doing some research for the company that I am working for now. They don't have anything in place yet and since there are trying to refactor what they have with more of us programmers, just trying to see which way to go.
<jrwren> i use nunit and mstest extensively and had #ifdefs to toggle between the two based on build flags
<jrwren> go nunit, if you find a reason to change, then change :)
<shakes808> Their IT crew went from 1~4 people in the code to 5+ and they are still growing it seems like. They are using SVN for their versioning control
<shakes808> 5 is below actual number, but it has grown double in a month lol and continuing
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/1sc6b
<rick_h_> really nice sqlite/debugging article ^^
<rick_h_> this is going to get annoying for users http://goo.gl/TkLIS
<snap-l> Honestly, at this point it's rather pointless to make a Twitter client
<snap-l> They've stated as much
<brousch> rick_h_: You're welcome https://github.com/cwood/vim-django
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<brousch> Just trying to make your life easier
<greg-g> feeling much better now, killing this todo items
<greg-g> s/this/these/
<snap-l> greg-g: Man, NC /ND is a shit-stirrer. :)
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Though I would love for the "NC-ND is essentially the same as 'all rights reserved'" crowd to please create a podcast with every single from the Billboard Top 40 chart and tell me they're the same when the RIAA busts down their door.
<snap-l> bbl. :)
<greg-g> snap-l: as social norms go, it is. See: P2P file sharing, tumblr, youtube, etc etc. Just because it isn't legal doesn't mean it isn't what most think (c) means.
<greg-g> also, jerk for baiting and leaving
<greg-g> ;)
<greg-g> I'd suggest listening to the Surprisingly Free podcast episode on the new prohibition, it was pretty well explained why this researcher thinks they are related (prohibition and modern copyright maximalism)
<greg-g> (I linked to it in that thread, too lazy to dig it up now, don't want to look at that thread again, laurel was too gut reactive, not analytical enough for me on a topic that has long term consequences)
<greg-g> also, one in a long line of such arguments, they all take a very thing slice view (such is the world of acadmic articles, mostly): http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2129458
<greg-g> (I just linked to that one because I just came across it today)
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I'm a jerk, but I was at work. :)
<snap-l> But yeah, parallels between prohibition and (c) are pretty valid
<roivas> ~
<greg-g> rm -rf ~
<rick_h_> how helpful greg-g
<Blazeix> halp i ran that command and i get error
<greg-g> I once, accidentally created a folder called " ~" (without the quotes)
<greg-g> that was the scariest rm -rf I ever did
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> This will get it back: sudo dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda
<greg-g> WARNING: THESE ARE ALL LEGIT, I MEAN, TOTALLY EFFING BOGUS THINGS TO DO ON YOUR OWN MACHINE
<rick_h_> we're so going to get shut down ...
<Blazeix> 'dd' means data duplicate, it restores all your data from the automatic backup, right?
<brousch> Wait, are we actually helping someone?
<greg-g> I sure hope not
<brousch> OK, I came in on greg-g's command and didn't know
<Blazeix> i, too, randomly post data destroying commands on entering a channel.
<greg-g> that's just the kind of clientele #ubuntu-us-mi attracts
<roivas> I blame my typo on using a wireless apple keyboard on ubuntu
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-28
<shakes808> Hello all
<shakes808> anyone still up?
<rick_h_> yea, but I should be heading ot bed
<shakes808> alright. Good night rick_h_
<rick_h_> 400 more records to go...dare I wait for the script to end...
<shakes808> It can wait until the morning
<rick_h_> but but but :P
<shakes808> Do you suppose that your processes will mess up and is it likely that you will do something about it tonight or in the morning?
<rick_h_> no, but it's the first time it should finally complete successfully in a while and I want to enable the cron job to run every 2hrs now that I've gotten it working again
<rick_h_> down to the last 500 of over 7000 back records of processing
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> You are going to stay up for the remainder of the process aren't you?
<shakes808> Since you are going to be up for a moment longer. I know you have the wifi hotspot through VZW, do you have your cell from them as well?
<shakes808> I think we have had this conversation a while ago, but can't remember. I know snap-l and his view and ting.com lol
<rick_h_> yea, me, wife, and the mifi
<shakes808> How do you like it? What phones?
<rick_h_> we both have galaxy nexus, like it
<rick_h_> 4g is awesome, coverage is solid, and lots of 4g added all the time
<rick_h_> but I pay through the nose for hte privilege
<shakes808> They redid there plans
<rick_h_> yea, I've not seen the rework. Since my phone has unlimited data if I change I lose that
<rick_h_> but I should look into the shared data plans
<shakes808> They are comparable to Sprint now, just not unlimited data but my girlfriend and I use ~2GB of data
<rick_h_> yea, I used 3gb from my phone one weekend
<rick_h_> so lucked out I still had my unlimited
<shakes808> PyOhio?
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> if you were to upgrade, what do you think you would git
<shakes808> get
<rick_h_> no, google io, I could only seem to hold the stream of video on my phone over 4g
<rick_h_> phone-wise? nothing. I'd wait until next galaxy device and debate aobut not getting it on verizon again
<rick_h_> I still don't have jelly bean on my phone and it was the whole reason to get the nexus, for the 'google updates' :/
<Blazeix> yeah, i've basically permanently given up on stock
<Blazeix> i used to check back now and then to see if i should revert
<Blazeix> but i've fallen out of the habit now
<rick_h_> yea, I should just look at what it takes to root
<rick_h_> but then I lose google video and netflix I think
<Blazeix> hm, maybe. i don't use either of those on my phone.
<rick_h_> yea, I guess I use them on the N7 more now
<roivas>  /exit
<rick_h_> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/What%27s_new_in_PostgreSQL_9.2#JSON_datatype yummy
<snap-l> I sent a note to Staples Rewards about a card issue
<snap-l> their automated e-mail put me on hold.
<snap-l> Thank you for contacting Staples Rewards.
<snap-l> We are currently experiencing high contact volume; please expect a delay in our response.
<brousch> Why are you eating JSON?
<rick_h_> so for a couple of reasons
<rick_h_> 1) set of data to send to a template, say email that goes out
<rick_h_> 2) Logging - often I log something happened and I store a set of data with it. The old values before an update, etc
<rick_h_> 3) Api calls end up sending json, so I do a query, then turn the objects into json. The ability to do a select to_json() would be more effecient
<snap-l> PHP / Wordpress: because it loves storing serialized data in the fucking database.
<snap-l> Oh, sorry, was listing reasons why I'd love to see JSON in the database. :)
<rick_h_> ....must...not...kill...developer
<snap-l> rick_h_:  That good?
<rick_h_> I'm cranky and doing code reviews...no good can come of this
<snap-l> Ruh roh
<rick_h_> and seriously...wtf http://paste.mitechie.com/show/765/
<rick_h_> "first one to use the variable key 10 times wins!"
<rick_h_> no comments, no idea wtf key vs key_name is...how can you have key and key_name...isn't a key a name by freaking definition?
 * snap-l pulls down his github
<snap-l> s/pulls/deletes/
<rick_h_> and then this gem... http://paste.mitechie.com/show/766/
<rick_h_> let's just check out wtf the super class in this case is doing for us: http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/files/widget_js_Widget.js.html#l612
<rick_h_> oh right....NOTHING... *sigh*
<brousch> Scumbag rover http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/scumbag-curiosity-rover.jpeg
<snap-l> there there
<rick_h_> and $#@#@$#@$#@ I'm not allowed to fly to australia nad kill anyone right?
<snap-l> as much as you were allowed to strangle people in NC.
<snap-l> ie: you'd have to expense it afterward.
<shakes808> Good morning all
<rick_h_> party
<shakes808> Have a question for snap-l. Coworker wants to make his own media server and was wondering where to start. Thought of you for this question.
<snap-l> What sort of media?
<snap-l> If it's more video related, I'm not the best person to ask. krondor is (Ryan Kather)
<snap-l> or jcastro
<snap-l> If it's audio, I have some opinions. :)
<rick_h_> first new book buy in a while, curse you oreilly sales
<snap-l> Which one?
<rick_h_> regex cookbook
<snap-l> Damnit rick_h_
<snap-l> I was so good.
<snap-l> but then I saw the 21st century C book
<brousch> Makefiles are fun
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, the cream of the 'DRY' crop
<shakes808> snap-l: More of a video server. I will ask those two to see what they would recommend and how. Thank you for your input.
<shakes808> jcastro: krondor: if you could shed some light for me about video servers, that would be much appreciated.
<tony-smlr> shakes808: I have a ubuntu file server to store the video and music then use xbmc at the TV...  What is your friend looking to do?
<dsschnau> Thinking about setting up a media computer to hook up to my tv in my living room. Mostly so my girlfriend can watch movies.. I was thinking if I built a windows box for it I could run some classic game emulators
<dsschnau> shakes808 mentioned i could do all that with an xbox but I'm skeptical.. would I be able to read and stream movie/game files from a network share? and is there good emulation software available for xbox?
<krondor> dsschnau:  xbox1?
<krondor> shakes808:  what you looking for
<jrwren> i use xbmc on xbox1
<jrwren> i love it.
<dsschnau> krondor: yeah - an xbox 1 (running xbmc) i suppose.
<jrwren> its not zomg awesome latest. icpu is not fast enough to decode 720p h264
<jrwren> the standard def stuff plays awesome, and on 100mbit it scrubs faster than anything around.
<krondor> dsschnau:  xbox 1 has a lot of emulators, but lacks some grunt to run things (like HD, dreamcast/ps1/2 roms) etc.. works well for nintendo, snes, genesis, gameboy etc..
<dsschnau> it would be connected to a 1080p tv, hmm
<krondor> dsschnau:  if you have the component HD adapter for it, it will drive 720p, but can't handle 720p file playback relaly
<jrwren> best connection you can get is component video, which I think maxes at 720p.
<jrwren> it looks beautiful at 720p on my 1080p tv
<jrwren> its an excellent "good enough" device. its not great at ZOMG I MUST HAVE THE LATEST HOTNESS
<shakes808> krondor: dsschnau is my coworker that was inquiring about making a media server. You are assisting him now. :D
<shakes808> Thank you for your help like usual
<dsschnau> sounds like it would be very cost effective... an xbox 1 would be super cheap.
<jrwren> i got mine 5yrs ago, already hard modded with 120G drive for $40
<jrwren> never use the storage on the 120 though, i just smb stream everything
<dsschnau> that was my next concern.. what would be a good solution for storage for it?
<krondor> xbmc4xbox is the fork of xbmc for xbox1.  xbmc no longer supports xbox1.
<krondor> http://www.xbmc4xbox.org.uk/
<krondor> some of the emulators for xbox1; http://www.x-scene.com/software/software.php?page=emulators
<jrwren> samba share works great for storage
<krondor> I still think xbmc on xbox1 had the best visualizations to music at 720p they're gorgeous
<krondor> did get some stutter with higher bitrate mp3 and flac I seem to recall, been a bit.
<brousch> It's way too quiet in here
<Blazeix> WOOP WOOP
<Blazeix> ...did that help?
<tony-smlr> I use xbmc on a pc with stripped down ubuntu   "XBMCbuntu"  http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=XBMCbuntu
<shakes80> how do i change my user name in there?
<shakes80> here
<rick_h_>  /nick something
<greg-g> man, google analytics sure does take a ton of ram in Fx
<brousch> Where was this when I was at UM? http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/28/1517245/welcome-to-the-university-of-michigans-computer-and-video-game-archive-video
<greg-g> it's been there for a while
<greg-g> my school (School of Info) had game night there a few times
<brousch> The Dude was built when I went there. I pirated warcraft 1 on floppies in there
<brousch> But no game center
<greg-g> hah
<rick_h_> sqlalchemy taking over the world http://goo.gl/dokpl
<jrwren> ut oh... i am reading cythonize... static typing python... i may be walking a slipery slope :)
<rick_h_> lol watch out jrwren
<rick_h_> cpython is good enough for everyone :P
<shakes808> >:{ IIS
<jrwren> when cython says stuff like, 120 times faster than python, it is hard to ignore, esp given the type of data processing we do
<brousch> rick_h_: Bah, let me know when the Django ORM is SQLAlchemy, then I'll believe it's taking over the world
<snap-l> greg-g: Do you know if they accept donations of old consoles?
<snap-l> I have a few that I don't care to keep anymore, and rather than sell them, it'd be neat to see them put to good use.
<greg-g> snap-l: if they don't have them, most likely, not sure what the policy really is though
<greg-g> but, they're friendly and would receive an email well
<snap-l> Heh, I got selected for Project Sputnik, but I don't have $1200 laying around for a new machine.
<shakes808> snap-l: You can donate your old systems to me ;D
<snap-l> shakes808: I'm pretty sure you don't give a crap about the Colecovision. ;)
<shakes808> REALLY
<shakes808> YES
<shakes808> Kalicovision?
<shakes808> SOmething like that !!!!
<shakes808> HELLS YEAH!!!!
<shakes808> If you are going to be throwing it away, bring it tomorrow.
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColecoVision
<snap-l> I'm not throwing it out, I'm just not interested in it as much as the other systems.
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> But if you're interested in it, lmk
<shakes808> lol I will find it a home, next to my 2 Ataris, 1985 Nintendo, Dreamcast, N64, Sega Genesis, PS2. :D
<snap-l> I'd rather it go to someone who actually respects
<snap-l> shakes808: You didn't happen to ever hit Cinciclassic, did you? :)
<shakes808> nope. I have to go, will talk to you either later on tonight or tomorrow. I will look up that cinciclassic later :D
<snap-l> You'd know it if you were there. :)
<snap-l> Anywho, I'd have to get it from storage, so it would be next week
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-29
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> long CHC tonight
<snap-l> w00t
<snap-l> http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/4805 <- Check the Rights and Access portion of this recording
<snap-l> 1915, and they still claim copyright
<snap-l> What the fuck.
<brousch> Your art should provide for your great, great grandchildren or it's not worth doing
<snap-l> http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/1 <- 1902, and still protected.
<snap-l> Well, there goes one of the ideas for my classical podcast
<brousch> Make your own music, thief!
<snap-l> Sure thing. Let me first resurrect Sergei Rachmaninoff and I'll get right on recording him
<brousch> Kickstart that shit!
<snap-l> Thank you. Just tweeted that.
<brousch> What is ht?
<snap-l> Hat Tip
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> man, this is nuts: http://goo.gl/kxTzA
<rick_h_> I know what I'm going to do, forget beach comber, I want to just quit and go become a bomb hunter
<snap-l> rick_h_: War is never as clean and tidy as people might be lead to believe
<snap-l> I'm sure your children's children will be dealing with unexploded ordinance from the early 20th century.
<rick_h_> reminder all, CHC early tonight snap-l Blazeix widox PainBank
<rick_h_> derekv: ^^
<widox> woo
<widox> rick_h_: offer still available to borrow a keyboard or two?
<rick_h_> widox: oh, yea thanks for reminding me
<rick_h_> I'll stack them by the door
<widox> sweet, thanks
<brousch> snap-l: Ug, we need an earlier time for the jam
<snap-l> brousch: If someone can come through, that would be awesome
<jrwren> i forgot it is open week. was there any good content yesterday?
<rick_h_> jrwren: no idea, I should be ashamed
<jrwren> snap-l: do teh podcast, wiat for (C) holders to invoke their rights.
<jrwren> snap-l: if you don't want the liability, do the podcast under my name, I'll pay you to do it, so the liability is mine :p
<jrwren> s/open week/developer week/
<derekv> rick_h_: retweeted.
<derekv> will try to make it
<derekv> i have worky work to do but maybe i can find a way to bring some of it
<jrwren> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek  looks like the things i'm interested in are today.
<rick_h_> derekv: hah, we had a buy bring dev tv tuner hardware to work on at CHC so surely your work can travel :P
<snap-l> jrwren: Heh
<rick_h_> oh hmm, I should have checked out the arm stuff yesterday
<rick_h_> I keep almost hitting buy on one of those arm 1U boxes on newegg
<brousch> You don't need one. Use your phone
<rick_h_> maybe juju today
<rick_h_> my phone can't run jenkins :P
<rick_h_> or more like...I don't want my phone running jenkins
<jrwren> any pythonistas use buildbot ?
<rick_h_> launchpad is on it :(
<rick_h_> but one day we're supposed to get from it to jenkins
<rick_h_> maybe in 2015
<jrwren> why not enhance buildbot.
<rick_h_> because it's fail
<jrwren> fix it?
<jrwren> or would it be better to restart?
<rick_h_> and jenkins is better and it's use is the new standard
<jrwren> true, but jre makes me cry.
<rick_h_> you'll cry less than buildbot will make you cry
<brousch> Pure Python all the things!
<rick_h_> and it's much more active, supported, and lots of pretty features
<rick_h_> bah, language snobs fail :P
<jrwren> good answers.
<rick_h_> as long as I don't have to dev for it :)
<jrwren> its more the runtime than the langauge that bugs me.
<jrwren> I feel like considering a software's pedigree should slightly impact decision to use it.
<rick_h_> the software or the language?
<rick_h_> I guess are we talking about jenkins or jre when you say that?
<jrwren> jre
<derekv> my head frikn hurts
<derekv> i'm having one of those mornings where it feels like my soul is lagging somewhat behing my mind, which is lagging far behind my body, which is barely moving
<jrwren> i never did get the hang of wednesdays.
<rick_h_> http://www.lematinal.com/mobile/technologie/18274-Samsung-Pays-Apple-1-Billion-Sending-30-Trucks-Full-of-5-Cents-Coins.html lmao!!!!!
<derekv> i wish
<snap-l> taking fatherinlaw to hospital
<rick_h_> everything ok?
<jjesse> oh no
<jjesse> hope things are ok
<snap-l> can't walk, but otherwise ok
<jjesse> rick_h_ while that samsung story would be assume, they are appealing the deal right?  so it can't be true that they are paying
<rick_h_droid> jjesse yea didn't verify it but made me smile
<rick_h_droid> http://www.mobile-ent.biz/news/read/samsung-is-not-paying-apple-1-05-billion-in-coins/019178
<snap-l> oh pshaw
<brousch> Do you go back after a pip freeze and remove dependencies that were added by the packages you actually added?
<brousch> Like I install localwiki, which installs django-honeypot. Should I go into the requirements.txt and remove django-honeypot?
<rick_h_> don't store the pip freeze in those cases
<rick_h_> manually make sure you keep up your setup.py and requirements.txt and that you have a builder that runs tests to make sure your project builds with the right deps
<rick_h_> because if you get an updated django-honeypot, but they update a dep, and you've got it locked from a previous pip freeze, you can break things in crazy ways
<rick_h_> pip freeze is a helpful tool, but I'm against pip freeze > requirements.txt unless you're doing it from master to production and you rerun that process after successful builds down the road
<brousch> Interesting
<brousch> So you manually build your requirements.txt?
<rick_h_> it started out from a pip freeze, but yes, I manually change it from now on
<brousch> Ug, this thing needs solr
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> This is abig ang gnarly as Bookie :P
<brousch> Darn complicated programs needing a bunch of dependencies
<rick_h_> even bookie does't need solr :P and it has a makefile to make life easier
<brousch> Yeah, I'm building a makefile for our localwiki instance
<rick_h_> wtf...this honeypot thing needs solr?
<brousch> No, localwiki needs it
<rick_h_> oic
<rick_h_> yea, that's what I've been avoiding with bookie. Getting tied to only fulltext search implementation
<rick_h_> interfaces ftw
<brousch> Have to start up a solr server now
<rick_h_> there are a few services for running solr as a service
<rick_h_> but ugh
<brousch> they use jetty
<shakes808> Good morning all
<shakes808> Sorry for the delay. Got in a car accident this morning on my way to work.
<shakes808> And I won't be at CHC tonight. I have to go meet up with my son's first grade teacher on the other end of town (harrison township) :(
<snap-l> shakes808: sorry to hear that
<snap-l> Sitting in the emergency room.
<shakes808> You are sitting in the ER?
<snap-l> father in law is in the emergency room
<shakes808> Sorry to hear that
<shakes808> What for if you don't mind me asking?
<snap-l> np. Happens.
<snap-l> Leg pain
<shakes808> Hope it is nothing serious.
<snap-l> Hope so too.
<snap-l> We'll see.
<greg-g> anyone experience stupid behavior from Chromium in GNOME Shell? As in, it starts maximized on my laptop screen, I want to alt-drag it to my monitor, in doing so, it goes full screen, so I hit F11 to exit that, and it goes back over to my laptop.
<greg-g> good thing I only use Chromium for flash videos, goo.gl, and pr0... er... nothing else
<snap-l> greg-g: I'm sure the GNOME Shell developer have a perfectly reasoned out reason fr it doing that.
<brousch> Welcome to Gnome3!
<Blazeix> well, your average user doesn't use maximize, so you're really testing out the edge-cases of the system.
<Blazeix> it's going to be deprecated in version 3.5
<brousch> Are you being sarcastic?
<snap-l> The average user also thinks Windows is just ducky
<greg-g> snap-l: Fx does the right thing, along with all other apps, it is just Chromium
<greg-g> brousch: ^
<snap-l> hurm
<snap-l> Chrome also does some weird things with window barriers
<snap-l> s/barriers/borders/
<snap-l> Did you try native?
<shakes808> rick_h_: You available? JS question.
<brousch> Son of a ... solr is 87MB. Is git going to be mad about that in my repo?
<brousch> Wait, I should download it as part of the dev setup
<greg-g> native?
<snap-l> greg-g: There's a switch to use the naitve borders
 * greg-g looks in a second
<greg-g> snap-l: that was the issue
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> that's understandable then
<rick_h_> heh, time for a new camera http://goo.gl/GlmrW
<greg-g> whoa, for real? nice
<jrwren> how can I tell a new style class v. old style class at runtime?
<jrwren> <class 'mod.blah'> is newstyle, right?
<jrwren> oh, nevermind.
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/768/ jrwren
<jrwren> and if you had typed just Test to eval the class object, you would have got <class 'Test'>
<jcastro> hey rick_h_
<jcastro> got that url to those AV guys?
<jcastro> they install TVs and stuff too I assume?
<snap-l> jcastro: You still need to come over for the Squeezebox demo
<snap-l> when you're not farting around witht eh fishes in Atlanta.
<snap-l> ;)
<Blazeix> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1c9z/i_am_barack_obama_president_of_the_united_states/
<greg-g> crazy, eh?
<Blazeix> i choose to imagine obama slumped in his chair, cheek on his fist, lazily scrolling though the comments
<greg-g> :)
<jjesse> and reedit is now dead
<brousch> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu reddit is under heavy load right now, sorry. Try again in a few minutes.
<jjesse> hrmm just that page
<jjesse> i can get other redit pages to load
<jjesse> i picture the Reddit servers smoking right nowâ¦ big heaping piles of waste
<Blazeix> reddit runs on EC2, right? are their downtime issues due to a poor architecture or money issues or something?
<jjesse> no idea, and i know the servers don't catch on fire or whatever but its fun to picture (at least for me) a rack of servers on fire because of the president showing up on Reddit
<greg-g> Blazeix: not quite your image: http://i.imgur.com/oz0a7.jpg
<brousch> rick_h_: I done you proud today. One more thing to figure out and this will be a thing of beauty
<snap-l> wow
<snap-l> that is awesome
<dsschnau_> hi... there wouldn't happen to be anyone here at caribou in birmhingham for coffee coders?
<rick_h_> boooo
<rick_h_> oh yea, we're in the back dsschnau_
<dsschnau_> oh cool, one sec
<rick_h_> dsschnau_: we're over at the caribou in woodward/13mi
<rick_h_> is that birmingham?
<dsschnau_> yeah... i'm in the main part
<dsschnau_> yeah
<rick_h_> dsschnau_: ah cool yea back part
<rick_h_> upvotes please http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/z1m4h/what_are_the_most_interesting_pyramid_projects/
<rick_h_> see if we can't get another wave :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-30
<rick_h_> very cool google/ubuntu story http://goo.gl/Sh8Pe
<shakes808> hello all.
<rick_h_> shakes808: howdy
<shakes808> How is CHC?
<Blazeix> non-shakes808y
<rick_h_> cool I guess
<shakes808> My coworker said he was going to try to make it, did he show up?
<rick_h_> yea, he's here chillin
<shakes808> Blazeix: :( Next week. I was told last minute about my son's teacher orientation
<Blazeix> yep
<shakes808> cooll
<Blazeix> he was in this channel for a while, but timed out
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> I haven't really got the chance to chat with you all in a while. How did PyOhio go? How did brousch's block go?
<brousch> rick_h_: My thing of beauty https://github.com/friendlycode/viget-lw
<brousch> shakes808: It went really well
<brousch> Someday there will be videos
<rick_h_> awesome brousch !
<rick_h_> pretty Makefile
<brousch> thanks
<shakes808> what android irc do you all use
<snap-l> ssh to my local machine
<snap-l> (connectbot)
<rick_h_> I use androidirc
<shakes808> snap-l: i don't have the luxury lol
<shakes808> rick_h_: Is it free?
<rick_h_> shakes808: no
<shakes808> :(
<shakes808> I am looking for free lol
<widox> shakes808: andchat
<shakes808> I just tried that and it wouldn't connect to this channel
<rick_h_> yea, andchat is the free one everyone raves about
<shakes808> what port does it need to be on?
<shakes808> ssl?
<shakes808> here is this server address?
<shakes808> Can't log on from my phone
<Blazeix> shakes808: do you get an error? should be server:irc.freenode.net, port:6667
<snap-l> btw: OMC is on metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> http://askearache.blogspot.com/2012/08/lowest-ever-uk-top-40-chart-sales-to.html
<snap-l> rick_h_:  I think I finally found your new monitor: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/08/sony-announces-massive-84-4k-flat-panel-tv-set-to-ship-this-year/
<rick_h_> snap-l: now that's a lot of 80col files
<brousch> Sorry, I bugged out last night. The wireless was very flaky
<snap-l> brousch: And you're apologizing why?
<brousch> I pasted my code and then left
<snap-l> Oh, well, don't let it happen again (or something)
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/ibms_new_mainframe_zec12_aimed_at_assimilating_private_clouds/
<snap-l> I miss Sun. THey could make a server box that looked good
<snap-l> though these look right impressive
<rick_h_> how can we have any faith in humanity any more? http://goo.gl/71UmQ
<rick_h_> and the motto of the day is 'fuck cancer' carry on
<snap-l> rick_h_: Amen
<brousch> right in the neck
<rick_h_> I never used matplotlib for anything, but the whole story is just so full of 'good guy, world goes sad'
<snap-l> Dude changed the face of Python
<rick_h_> yea, sounds like it
<brousch> We had one GRPUG talk on it years ago
<brousch> Geez, he was only 44
<rick_h_> yea
<shakes808> good morning all
<jrwren> i'm quoting you on that: snap-l| I miss Sun.
<snap-l> jrwren: You're welcome. ;)
<snap-l> If any of you like folk metal, The Entropy League's show is on http://metalinjection.fm
<rick_h_> jrwren: you reading the SA book?
<PainBank> "what does no field key specified" as an error code from the thrift compiler mean?
<PainBank> ugh, wrong chat
<rick_h_> yea, got nothing here
<brousch> Yeah, I was like wtf is the thrift compiler?
<rick_h_> I at least know to start at: http://thrift.apache.org/ :P
<jrwren> rick_h_: no, Pro Django. the book would make a great appendix to a real django book.
<jrwren> it has almost zero ORM coverage
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, the django books are a bit weak
<jrwren> indeed
<brousch> They are all old
<jrwren> i'm running on 1.2, so old is perfect :)
<jrwren> i'm really struggling with proper use of select_related()
<snap-l> I'm going to love this election season
<snap-l> Already getting the sob-story emails of how Paul Ryan is just one of us, not an elitist.
<Blazeix> he has two first names. you can't trust people with two first names.
<rick_h_> lol, now that's some political reasoning I can get behind
<greg-g> Blazeix: I had a teacher in HS who was Tim Dann, I told him the extra "n" didn't fool me
<snap-l> Hahahaha
<rick_h_> that's awesome
<gppl> Meh, I have a friend named 'Ross Kelley
<gppl> He's legit
<gppl> But most of the time this two first names reasoning is correct
<greg-g> Kelley might be a special case, I don't want all if Ireland against me
<jrwren> i don't understand how itertools.ifilter is different from filter
<jrwren> *doh* nevermind, yes I do.
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/z2hqv/does_anyone_know_of_any_internet_radio_stations/c610dv3
<snap-l> Really pissed off at the hospital. They're discharging my FIL without really knowing what caused the problem, and without him being able to walk.
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> I really don't like this hospital. They did the same damn thing to him last time.
<snap-l> but he insists on going there.
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> cute nurses?
<greg-g> sorry, one of those days for me
<rick_h_> snap-l: which one?
<shakes808> http://www.christianpost.com/news/samsung-pays-apple-1-billion-fine-in-nickels-80868/
<snap-l> St John's in Detroit
<snap-l> greg-g: Lovely people, but whomever is in charge of making decisions like this needs a boot in the ass
 * greg-g nods
<rick_h_> hmm, I think erica only has permission to the oakland one
<greg-g> shakes808: I wonder how many nickels there are in circulation?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, and that's why we've been taking him there. His doctors work w/ St. John's.
<snap-l> but the one out of Detroit, not the one in Oakland Cty.
<rick_h_> yea, was going to offer to sick my wife on them for you :P
<snap-l> Appreciate it.
<snap-l> I'm just wondering who made the call, because I don't think it's the right decision.
<rick_h_> well, you'd be surprised, often it's not their decision but insurance's decision.
<rick_h_> but yea, sucks to not get any answers
<snap-l> Meanwhile we still don't know what happened.
<brousch> ug, regex
<rick_h_> heh, I've got a cookbook for that
<brousch> I muddled through what I needed with help from a regex testing website
<jrwren> brousch is good with django orm?
<brousch> I am not
<jrwren> i want to confirm that a subquery can't be done with orm. e.g. how would orm do SELECT * FROM t1 inner join t2 on t1.t2_id=t2.id where t1.timestamp = (select max(t3.timestamp) from t1 as t3 where t3.t1_id=t1.id) ;
 * brousch pokes himself in the eye
<jrwren> i'm often amazed when folks don't know sql 8]
<brousch> It will take me about an hour to make sense of that
<brousch> stackoverflow that thing
<jrwren> i'm in #django asking :)
<jrwren> from everything I've googled, the answer is no, but django is poorly googleable IMO
<brousch> greg-g: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/08/30/175221/gnomebuntu-set-to-arrive-in-october
<brousch> jrwren: I would think it's the SQL that's hard to google
<jrwren> the sql is trivial.
<brousch> trivial to google?
<PainBank> does this page help?  https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/queries/
<PainBank> and if that one doesn't float your fancy, try this one
<PainBank> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/sql/
<greg-g> brousch: finally
<PainBank>  jrwren cheers!  now if I can get this damn win machine to hibernate
<jrwren> i've read all that.
<jrwren> those are just teh basics.
<greg-g> brousch: Jeremy Bicha also fixed the bug that made GNOME Shell unusable for me in 12.10 (won't be back ported to 12.04, unfortunately)
<PainBank> so you cannot send the raw sql statement like the second link states?
<jrwren> well, I've read teh 1.2 versions of those pages :)
<greg> and I'm back, with a much cleaned up autojoin list in irssi
<parmount> hi
<greg-g> hello there
<Blazeix> he was not pleased.
<derekv> well now lastpass has me nards just as much as google
<derekv> not that google has them any less
<derekv> just upped the ante
<derekv> on the other hand, i gain convience and security in theory
<derekv> we'll see
<rick_h_> lastpass ftw
<rick_h_> lastpass + yubikey super win
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-31
<derekv> yea i shall consider it
<derekv> i think i'll live with just lastpass and learn a bit more about how it all works (technical/practical) before going further
<derekv> the pro version is very cheap ... cheap enough i'd get it if it had one feature i might sometimes find useful
<derekv> so the no comments at all thing was making me laugh today
<derekv> because this really horrible bug would have been noticed by me faster if a class were not totally named wrong
<derekv>  something-something-cache
<derekv> but its not a cache at all
<derekv> just a hashmap
<derekv> that shit is getting stored in
<snap-l> greg-g: Have you heard the promos for OMC on metalinjection.fm?
<derekv> session state for the lose
 * snap-l needs to come up with more promos
<snap-l> There's only three on there right now
<snap-l> "Music that will rip your face off and give a copy to your friends..."
<snap-l> "OMC. Because Sharing is caring, and going to jail for sharing music is stupid. OMC.com"
<snap-l> http://soundcloud.com/mofryky
<snap-l> Some good covers
<derekv> snap-l: link to your podcast?
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com and http://lococast.net
<snap-l> One's music, one's me and rick_h_ talking
<derekv> oh cool
<derekv> so , i've been using beyondpod for android
<derekv> and it has its quirks but overall I like it
<derekv> what i'd really like , is almost the same thing, where I have the option to set it up to download podcasts onto local disk based on some rules
<derekv> but some cloud sync that keeps track of podcasts listened to, or even where i am in a podcast
<derekv> sortof the multi-room-dvr concept but for podcasts and devices
<derekv> i'd like all that, but i'm too lazy to google for it
<snap-l> derekv: I haven't found it either
<derekv> so i guess long random password for appleid doesn't work out
<derekv> lol i have passwords for facebook logins i dont' even recognize in my old password database
<derekv> ohh i remember what those were for
<derekv> repressed memory due to php
<derekv> ipad lastpass is crashy
<greg-g> snap-l: I haven't heard them, no. Haven't really listened to mi.fm yet
<brousch> derekv: Google Listen does what you want
<snap-l> OK< this is a little disingenuous
<snap-l> http://www.sharms.org/blog/2012/08/apple-os-x-ubuntu-applications/ <- Vector Graphics Application
<snap-l> I mean, sure, if you're just using OSS for most things, the Mac pales by comparison
<snap-l> But it's like saying you use the GIMP and Scribus on the Mac for photo editing and page layout
<snap-l> Not saying they aren't great tools, but the Mac is blessed with some pretty great tools.
<snap-l> tools that I wish were available under Linux
<brousch> snap-l: Expensive tools
<snap-l> True, they are expensive
<snap-l> but if the totality of your usage of the mac is as a platform for running mostly OSS stuff, then the transition is quite easy.
<snap-l> again: not a bad thing
<brousch> Using Gimp and Inkscape on OSX is annoying
<brousch> They don't quite integrate correctly
<snap-l> brousch: I remember trying pidgin under OSX. It was terrible.
<brousch> I couldn't even get it installed
<snap-l> Imagine if you will a completely unthemed GTK application running via X
<snap-l> with no font hinting at all
<snap-l> That's how much it rocked.
<brousch> epic!
<snap-l> Yeah, it was like getting a hug from Satan
<PainBank> wow snap-l I didn't know you had such a relationship
<snap-l> Well, it wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't such a fan of wet willies.
<PainBank> you like getting skull fucked by satan, just admit it
<snap-l> Purely on a platonic level
<PainBank> sure... is your wife on here now?  or is she reading the screen?
<snap-l> PainBank: Just curious, who would enjoy being skull fucked?
<snap-l> I mean, that's pretty hardcore.
<PainBank> only the hardcore would I suppose.  haha
<PainBank> perhaps some crazy host of a crazy show about metal or some such
<PainBank> anyone tried phone gap?
<brousch> About a year ago, other than the very brief experiment for pyohio
<brousch> Hm, maybe 2 years ago
<shakes808> Good morning all
<brousch> yessir
<brousch> PainBank: It's not bad if your application fits its limited features
<PainBank> broush: but all it really does for you is give a single consistent device API to code against yes?  In the end, the packaging of the html app to device has to be done in each app environ, correct?
<brousch> Yes
<brousch> If you want an iOS app, you have to use OSX
<brousch> Also, if you want it to look native on each device, you will end up making different UIs for each platform
<brousch> With PhoneGap, you are making a web page, so the entire design is on you
<brousch> Supposedly Appcelerator Titanium (cross platform, javascript) is better at making things look native
<PainBank> yes, well at that point, you are coding your UI in javascript entirely as well... although to some degree you will do that with the majority of 'html5' frameworks as well.
<snap-l> http://synthematik.bandcamp.com/album/syntension-beta <- use offer code beta20 to get 20% off
<snap-l> http://synthematik.bandcamp.com/album/syntension-alpha <- offer code alpha50 for 50% off
<brousch> PainBank: Are you looking at phonegap for cross-platform or for not needing java?
<jrwren> " Having went through the 15â³ Macbook Pro, 13â³ Macbook Pro and 13â³ Macbook Air, and I really feel that Lenovo actually makes more compelling products. "
<jrwren> this guy is insane. right there is proof.
<brousch> Maybe the Apple crackcoating doesn't work on him
<jrwren> his Application Equivalents is interesting. sublime on both tells me that he doesn't use gvim on both :)
<jrwren> i'm also amused that the X1 costs more than MacBookAir
<jrwren> greg-g: are you ok?
<PainBank> brousch: just as a not using java to code an app up
<brousch> Kivy looks pretty nice
<brousch> You can also make an APK with Python for Android
<brousch> Where are those damn PyOhio videos?
<PainBank> brousch: no worries
<PainBank> also to understand how phonegap is used for xplatform dev
<brousch> Everyone I've talked to that uses PhoneGap says they develop on OSX and test with the iPhone emulator because it's so much faster. Then they test on Android once in a while
<brousch> Even someone who uses PhoneGap on Windows tests via VNC to OSX running the emulator
<PainBank> nice
<PainBank> I don't think it is the phone gap part, but the emulator
<PainBank> snap-l: one you might like....
<PainBank> http://www.shazam.com/discover/track/52842591
<PainBank> amzing shazam even makes any money
<PainBank> thank you Pandora for the backstory
<snap-l> Yeah, I need more volbeat in my life.
<PainBank> the leader used to run Dominus, which is heavier... haven't listened to them yet though.
<PainBank> wrif was actually playing that song last night...
<PainBank> pleasent surprise
<brousch> rick_h_: I realized I can put multiple commands in one Makefile command. Now my file will be even more awesome than before!
<brousch> I was calling out to script for multiline commands
<shakes808> sorry coming in late to the convo. What is this about Pythonn and Andriod?
<greg-g> jrwren: why you ask?
<greg-g> w00t, my 8 gigs of ram is out for delivery!
<greg-g> (the max this laptop can take, contrary to Lenovo's stated max of 4)
<jrwren> greg-g: because twitter suggests you watched the RNC on tv. this tells me something may be wrong with you.
<_stink_> might be a long shot, but has anyone here made/used a solar cooker before?
<greg-g> jrwren: hah, no, didn't watch, retweeted people though
<greg-g> _stink_: I once left some milk in my car in the summer, does that count?
<_stink_> yes!  you made ricotta.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Cards Against Humanity is back in stock.
<snap-l> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004S8F7QM/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=decafbadnet-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B004S8F7QM&adid=17ZNZ0AWZZH2KDW6RHFJ&
<waldo323_> _stink_, have you already checked out instructables?
<_stink_> waldo323_: naw, i got my plan from http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Cookers_World_Network_(Home)
<_stink_> looking now though, thanks
<waldo323_> you're welcome
<snap-l> greg-g: Pulling out of the loco council
<snap-l> ?
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, no time, that one actually does work, unlike the Membership Review Boards where I just vote on people :)
<brousch> Whew. Multiline command in makefile was a PITA to figure out
<jrwren> django folk: how do you manage dev v. prod settings?
<brousch> jrwren: There a couple of ways people do it
<brousch> Some have a separate settings.py (production) and settings_dev.py
<jrwren> yeah, they seem to be well documented https://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/SplitSettings
<jrwren> but how do YOU like to do it ?  8D
<brousch> Some have a settings.py and then settings_prod and settings_dev they import from
<brousch> Some make a settings module
<brousch> I use separate settings files
<jrwren> i'm leaning toward module.
<brousch> But that makes for manual changes on the server
<jrwren> so I don't duplicate the settings.
<brousch> Right, module is probably the best way
<brousch> I think static files and settings handling are the most annoying things in Django
<jrwren> static files definitely suck
<jrwren> the good thing is since it is in your face you have to solve it instead of doing what most people do and letting their handler serve statics too
<brousch> I suppose
<brousch> Although I know people who are really lazy and use the sev server in prod
<brousch> That hard part about settings is keeping secret info out of repositories but still someplace useful
<jrwren> that is what I mean.
<jrwren> static files make it difficult to use dev server in prod.
<jrwren> ah, secret info in repo is not an issue in my case.  but for open source, sure.
<suzyq> 49 ferndale female
<jrwren> lol, wtf.
<greg-g> huh, uhhhh
<llua> wat, yarrr.
<jrwren> brousch: how do you profile your django apps? debug-toolbar is great for the sql queries, but for compute, what do you use?
<brousch> profile?
<jrwren> yar, like ipython's %prun
<jrwren> cProfile, profile, pstats
<jrwren> http://docs.python.org/library/profile.html
<jrwren> repose profile looks sweet.
<jrwren> but I think this is sweet too: http://backslashn.com/post/505601626/profiling-execution-with-the-django-debug-toolbar
<snap-l> Worst thing about writing an article for a magazine: wondering what issue it'll come out
<snap-l> OMC is on metalinjection.fm until 6pm ET
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^
<snap-l> (I promise I'll start laying off the channel reminders. ;) )
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> huh, I thought I was a member of the !cc group, I guess not, snap-l :)
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not either
<greg-g> I remember now it being a bit noisy
<greg-g> not unlike cc-community mailing list :)
<snap-l> I got off that list a while back
<snap-l> the development discussion reminded me why I hate watching sausage-making
<shakes808> Language question for the .NET peoples. F# What is it good for?
<jrwren> everything.
<jrwren> its the greatest .net language.
<greg-g> snap-l: what's your referrer for ting?
<snap-l> greg-g: https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
<snap-l> ANd thank you, if you decide to use it. :)
<Blazeix> shakes808: i think F# is really popular in the data analysis and banking worlds
<shakes808> what is the advantages for F# over just C#
<greg-g> snap-l: dude, that gets me $25 off too!
<greg-g> sweet
<greg-g> I thought I was just being a good friend and giving you a credit
<greg-g> huh, it lets me upgrade from 10 business day shipping to 3 for free :)
<greg-g> snap-l: alright, I hit buy :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesome. THank you.
<jrwren> snap-l: are you familiar with And One?
<jrwren> if you are, this may make you LOl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V1ioVPlWzA
<snap-l> Not familiar with them
<snap-l> but yeah, I love these.
<snap-l> SImilar to Eisbrecher.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-01
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, saw. Trying to buy but up north with less than dial up connection
<brousch> rick_h_: My Makefile is now uberawesome https://github.com/friendlycode/viget-lw
<rick_h_> brousch: I'll see if it can load
<brousch> The only sticky point is possible missing links in PIL libraries on 64 bit ubuntu
<brousch> It's in the INSTALL.txt
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> Your Bookie Makefile was a huge help. Especially with the multiline script
<brousch> I beat my head against it for an hour before I looked in there to see if you had any
<naildeca> part
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live at http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=Nioc4U_gKS8
<snap-l> Squeezebox Article is in Linux Journal this month
<tony-smlr> snap-l: Squeezbox rocks!
<snap-l> tony-smlr: Yeah, it's replaced all of my at-home listening
<snap-l> having fin at beaumont
<snap-l> fun, even
<snap-l> fil is doi.g better
 * scitesy is away: I'm busy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-02
<snap-l> morning
<wolfger> whassup?
<snap-l> Hey wolfger
<snap-l> Ubuntu US MI meeting tonight at 9pm
<snap-l> be there, or wonder why you weren't there.
<llua> where at?
<llua> whooooosh, nm
<greg-g> happy sunday that feels like saturday, everyone
<rick_h_droid> ugh just pulled in from the camp grounds and a return to cell service yay
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_droid> nap time!
<greg-g> nice, I took a 4 hour one yesterday, which is also why today feels like saturday to me
<greg-g> (saturday didn't really exist)
<rick_h_droid> yea a good nap will lose you a say for sure
<rick_h_> woot my video is up
<rick_h_> dammit, the cards against humanity set is sold out already?!
<rick_h_> $150 for a $20 card set?!
<rick_h_>  bwuhahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNSIDCwJxAg&feature=plcp
<snap-l> Man, this is a busy weekend
<snap-l> and on top of it, we're taking in a cat to see if we're allergic to it.
<rick_h_> ruh roh
<rick_h_> a cat?
<rick_h_> well I managed to get the two expansion packs at least ... grrrr
<wolfger> 3-day weekend. I think I'll hop in here at 9PM tomorrow and ask "where is everybody?" ;-)
<rick_h_> lshah
<snap-l> Yeah, sister-in-law's sister inherited some cats from a litter
<snap-l> they took one, and we're testing out one of the others
<snap-l> it's a black cat with a white patch in front
<snap-l> we're calling it pixel
<snap-l> it's coming up on it's three month birthday.
<rick_h_> snap-l: good luck
<snap-l> rick_h_: THanks.
<rick_h_> snap-l: how's the FIL?
<rick_h_> scrollback says better?
<snap-l> FInding I'm mildly allergic to her, but hoping my immune system will get in gear
<snap-l> Yeah, he's better
<snap-l> They're planning physical therapy for him
<rick_h_> walking?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-26
<rick_h> ugh
<cmaloney> Yeah, but at least it's Windows 7
<cmaloney> Machine shipped with Windows Vista on it, so that's already an improvement
<cmaloney> Huh, there's a PUTTY.RND file on here
<cmaloney> That's strange
<cmaloney> Set mom-in-law's machine to use an admin account
<cmaloney> password is "becareful"
<cmaloney> Password hint is "Be Careful" (No spaces)
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> btw: we have a meeting on Sunday since it's the first Sunday of the month
<cmaloney> And it's Labor Day weekend. ;)
<rick_h> oh boy
<jrwren> i will try to make it anyway :)
<cmaloney> Thank you
<rick_h> I'll be on a plane sorry
<rick_h> well, I guess I might be landed, but doubtful to be around
<cmaloney> There have been some changes to the approval (now verification) process that I think will change whether or not we go with the new process
<cmaloney> rick_h: No worries. If you can make it, that's awesome
<jrwren> what are the proposed changes?
<cmaloney> It looks like it's just a "touch base" instead of a "prove to us that you are active and making awesome"
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> That and it relies more on data that we're already aggregating
<cmaloney> I think the loco directory / launchpad can do most, if not all of the work
<greg-g> YA THINK?!
<greg-g> WHO PUSHED FOR THAT BUT EVERYONE RESISTED
<greg-g> CRAIG AND GREG
<greg-g> ;)
 * greg-g grumbles
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're already generating tons of metadata about the group
<greg-g> way to help the NSA, maaaaaan
<cmaloney> I do hope you realize that your involvement in OSS will go down on your permanent record.
<greg-g> I'll eat my permanant record
<jrwren> only if printed on ricepaper
<cmaloney> My permanent record is printed on the backs of newborn piglets.
<greg-g> mmmm, smoked permanent record.
<jrwren> what happened to greg-g vegetarian?
<jrwren> or do I just remember totally wrong?
<greg-g> I ate him
<jrwren> hahaha, nice
<greg-g> I was, 'tis true
<greg-g> now I'm mostly whatever. Hopefully going back to paleo-ish soon
<jrwren> whoa, that is a lot of meat.
<greg-g> but I think I'm hypoglycemic :(
<jrwren> challenge: paleo pesco-lacto-ovio vegetarian
<jrwren> i'm on day 3 of vegetarian, does that count?
<greg-g> it counts to 3, at least
<cmaloney> I'm a vegetarian in between whenever I last ate meat
<cmaloney> so... 0 days.
<cmaloney> I'm a pragmatic vegetarian. I eat vegetarian when I don't want to eat meat. ;)
<jrwren> most americans cannot imagine a meal without meat, let alone a day or two
<cmaloney> I have no problem with this, but I tend to do it more often with middle eastern food
<dzho> see also (for me): Ethiopian
<rick_h> man, juju in lxc ftw, so freaking fast/cool
<jrwren> ya know how Im' always bitching there are no good python books. I think maybe treading on python vol1&2 might be great python books
<jrwren> by juju in lxc, you mean the lxc backend?
<cmaloney> jrwren: There are good Python books, just the O'Reilly / Mark Lutz books are a little dense.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, using the lxc provider to launch/test things out in a hurry locally
<rick_h> so much faster and nicer
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-27
<rick_h> jcastro: you around Sat?
<rick_h> there you go for your perl urges http://thechangelog.com/gitprep-open-source-github-clone/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<greg-g> always
<tony-smlr> Did you guys see the message from ChanServ?  or did it only show it to me?
<rick_h> I didn't see anything
<rick_h> and 'landing all the things' so that's fun
<greg-g> tony-smlr: did not see, no
<tony-smlr> Thanks!
<cmaloney> tony-smlr: Which message?
<tony-smlr> I changed the entry message for my #smlr channel.  the ChanServ message showed on this channel for some reason
<tony-smlr> I didn't want to spam you guys because I was updating my channel
<tony-smlr> But it looks like it only showed it to me.
<cmaloney> Ah, no worries
<jrwren> anyone know https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/locator/ec2/ very well?
<jrwren> the first column is region, but images are per region, aren't they?
<rick_h> smoser: is the master of ^
<smoser> jwimages are pre region.
<smoser> jrwren, ?
<smoser> per-region
<jrwren> err.
<jrwren> my brain is hurting.
<jrwren> or rather, I typoed.
<jrwren> the first column at that url is ZONE
<jrwren> but images are per region.
<jrwren> OK, I'm sticking with zone.
<smoser> images are per-region.
<jrwren> *nod*
<smoser> ap-southeast-1 is a region
<jrwren> shit. typo again.
<smoser> ap-southeast-1a is a availability-zone
<jrwren> I'm sticking with region
<jrwren> ah, thank you. maybe that is waht i'm missing
<jrwren> yup yup.
<jrwren> thanks smoser. I was misreading
<jrwren> and miswriting a TON
<jrwren> afternoon coffee time!!!
<smoser> :)
<smoser> jrwren, you dont seem to me to be the kind of person that uses a gui to find a image-id.
<smoser> i'm saying this because the data you're looking at is available at
<smoser> http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/streams/v1/
<smoser> with a library/tool for querying that at lp:simplestreams (packaged in saucy)
<jrwren> i wasn't really looking for an ubu image. I was looking to confirm that they are per region.
<jrwren> aws docs were failing me.
<jrwren> i'm familiar enough with the API to be 99% sure I was right. I just wanted to confirm
<smoser> of course you were looking for an ubuntu image :)
<jrwren> because openstack is different enough...
<jrwren> no. i'm not looking for an ubuntu image becuase I already have them :)
<jrwren> smoser: thanks for the json link
<smoser> jrwren, are you using those in glance ?
<smoser> ie, download images -> glance ?
<jrwren> I think so, yes.
<smoser> so you're not running your openstack.
<jrwren> nope, team mate is.
<smoser> well, you can point him at
<smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/simplestreams/example-sync
<jrwren> but I just matched an md5, so yes, I'm definitely running server/releases/precise/release-20130411.1/ubuntu-12.04-server-buttimg-amd64-disk1.img
<smoser> which basically keeps images in your local glance "in sync" with those published.
<jrwren> oh cool.
<jrwren> i'll link the team.
<smoser> (and actually produces the same formated data on swift for your local cloud that we have on cloud-images for ec2)
<jrwren> are filters availble? like 12.04 x86 only?
<jrwren> err, x86_64 only.
<jrwren> we wouldn't want to sync EVERYTHING
<smoser> that will be coming... but as it is right now you get a fire hose :)
<smoser> well, you can say "keep 2".
<smoser> which would keep 2 of each release x arch
<jrwren> cool. when it become a need to sync that, we'll check it out. its a one time thing right now, so no big deal
<greg-g> jcastro: is it just me, or are the pgup/pgdn keys on the x230 in the wrong places? I would have that pgup would be on the right...
<jrwren> pgup is fn uparrow
<greg-g> not on the x230 :(
<greg-g> really, the keyboard layout is pretty crappy
<greg-g> usability is apparently only for things on the screen, not the input devices. They are just supposed to look purty.
<jcastro> greg-g: yeah they're in the wrong place
<jcastro> still getting used to it
<jcastro> love the rest of the keyboard though
<jcastro> rick_h: I ordered that new code keyboard from WASD
<jcastro> http://codekeyboards.com/
<cmaloney> THat looks interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-28
<cmaloney> Oh, clear switches
<cmaloney> I'd love to check it out
<rick_h> yea, don't see many with clear switches
<rick_h> dip switches good (happy hacker style) and meh on lighting. I've got lighting on this laptop but never use it
<rick_h> and not 10less :(
<cmaloney> There's a 10less
<rick_h> ah, cool
<cmaloney> LaTeX: Wil Fuqua
<rick_h> I've gotten some caps and such from WASD, nice to see people caring about keyboards
<cmaloney> This is pretty nice
<cmaloney> Dip switchable
<cmaloney> Hmmmm.....
<rick_h> yea, handy to avoid OS hacking when the hardware can adjust
<cmaloney> It also has the Mac compatible swap
<cmaloney> Hm, now I'm really intrigued
<cmaloney> Finding the Leopolds a little less than reliable
<rick_h> yea, filco is better
<rick_h> I'm still on the filco 10less
<jrwren> rick_h: did you see?
<jrwren> oh jcastro linked it.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea
<jrwren> if only it was 100.  150 is a bit steep
<rick_h> yea, and I like clicky
<rick_h> so not sure I'd like the clears
<rick_h> the keyboard I want is a unicomp 10less but they don't have it yet :(
<jrwren> oh, the 87 is not out yet?  bummer
<rick_h> yea
<widox> hmm, that kb is interesting
<widox> jcastro: must bring it to CHC!
<widox> wish you could see larger images on there site...
<cmaloney> Yeah, I wish they also had a keyboard layout
<rick_h> http://r.bmark.us/u/20fda17b827b5a wow, must resist temptation to overnight one before I head to london
<cmaloney> rick_h: yeah, that's sorely tempting
<cmaloney> jcastro: If you would replace the Ubuntu Forums with Discourse, I'd start using them again.
<jcastro> cmaloney: start using discourse now!
<cmaloney> I just added some stuff there.
<jcastro> jrwren: ping me when you get back
<jrwren> back
<rick_h> man, you can't overnight things from google's play store :(
<cmaloney> rick_h: That sucks
<cmaloney> Maybe the Google Tubes only work so fast
<rick_h> cmaloney: yea, and anyone else selling a N4 only sells the 16gb and only for $400+
<rick_h> bummer
<cmaloney> When ins the Londn trip?
<rick_h> Sat night
<cmaloney> shit
<rick_h> yep
<cmaloney> No 2nd day air?
<cmaloney> because that miiiiight make it
<cmaloney> assuming they're not EST
<rick_h> so it's 2nd day shipping, but an est 'out the door' of monday
<cmaloney> Well fuck
<rick_h> so it looks like they're telling me to expect it next wed
<cmaloney> I'm sure the big announcement didn't help matters.
<rick_h> I've placed the order to see if it ships tomorrow and does 2day air it might be here sat
<rick_h> but if it doesn't ship tomorrow I'll cancel it
<cmaloney> I'd expect it to show next wed.
<rick_h> bah, it won't let me ship it to london
<cmaloney> I think Google just doesn't want you to have this phone. ;)
<rick_h> hah
<waf> lmorchard: https://github.com/waf/config/blob/master/10-mtrack.conf
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-29
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/GeekPorn/comments/1l998k/eve_online_multiboxing_like_a_boss1000x750/
<rick_h> wow, this is creepy in some way http://r.bmark.us/u/4c9d483674a8b1
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> The privacy implications are pretty staggering
<jrwren> they should have watched the wire.
<jrwren> use burner phones.
<jrwren> sheesh.
<jrwren> stupid criminals
<jrwren> or hell, you are robbing banks. steal cellphones for 1 time use while at it.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Now imagine if the government suddenly labeled you a criminal. :)
<jrwren> oh, no, don't get me wrong, I'm 100% pro privacy.
<jrwren> I am of the opinion that it should be illegal for the phone companies to keep those records at all.
<jrwren> if I know the gvment labels me a criminal, i'll turn off my phone.
<jrwren> if i were to commit a robery, which I would not, I'll turn off my phone.
<waf> http://www.explainshell.com/
<rick_h> cool
<trevlar> waf: nice
<jrwren> does not work at all here.
<jrwren> http://www.explainshell.com/?args=for+i+in+%60seq+1+5%60+%3B+do+echo+%24i+%3E+%24i+%3B+done
<cmaloney> DaFuk: http://www.amazon.com/Anti-EFF-Oval-Sticker-4-pack/dp/B00CB8SUFG
<smoser> jrwren, https://review.openstack.org/43512
<smoser> !
<smoser> is that your first ?
<jrwren> smoser: yes, that is my frist.
<jrwren> smoser: oh, that was second.
<jrwren> smoser: first is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43326/
<jrwren> same thing, I just messed up the Change-Id on that second one.
<jrwren> either way, too much friction in openstack commit process.
<jrwren> its be easier for us to fork openstack on github and maintain our own branches *shrug*
<cmaloney> Siting at the Barnes and Noble
<cmaloney> this older couple was sitting a few tables over from me
<cmaloney> prototypical old couple, talking about how some kids aren't doing such and such
<cmaloney> he just answered his phone "HELLO ARE YOU THERE?!?"
<cmaloney> went straight through my headphones
<rick_h> brilliant! https://twitter.com/ikepoker/status/373125740306628608
<cmaloney> rick_h: Hah
<smoser> jrwren there is unfortuantely a lot of process.
<smoser> but forking has its own costs.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-30
<jrwren> smoser: its true. I don't think we will fork. the really frustrating part is that its is a show stopping bug for us, with no way to send patch upstream.
<jrwren> and also a bit worrying that such a basic thing was tested wrong abd bug exists.
<jrwren> hybrid cloud must be a lie
<cmaloney> https://ting.com/blog/where-do-ting-customers-come-from/
<brousch> cmaloney: TheSprint network has been disappointing while on vacation in the boondocks. My wife's Verizon phone had coverage everywhere, but mine had data only in the middle of cities.
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, Verizon has the coverage
<cmaloney> if I did a lot more traveling, I'd probably invest in a Verizon hot spot
<cmaloney> or myfi
<cmaloney> whatever they call it. :)
<rick_h> yep, going with any small carrier is going to run into issue
<rick_h> mifi :P
<rick_h> that's the mitechie plan, verizon mifi, small carrier phones
<brousch> That's what I was thinking about for next vacation
<brousch> I picked up a Clever coffee maker. I think I will need to make a timer app for it
<brousch> http://www.sweetmarias.com/clevercoffeedripperpictorial.php
<cmaloney> I think this is how some Starbucks make their dark roast if they dont have it on tap.
<cmaloney> OK, periscope down, because I fucking love reports.
<brousch> similar
<brousch> They use a pour-over. This is an immersion
<rick_h> moka pot!
<jrwren> brousch: a pour through.
<brousch> Easy clean up
<brousch> I'll need to experiment to get my preferred strength
<jrwren> smoser: are there tags somewhere in cloud-init repo so I can view what shipped with 12.04-server-cloudimg
<smoser> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init
<smoser> shoot...
<smoser> i was going to tell you that you could 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu/release/cloud-init' but that isn't true at the moment.
<smoser> that has the table of major versions, but 12.04 is heavily patched.
<jrwren> nevermind, i found it.
<jrwren> err, well, I thought I did.
<jrwren> 0.6.3 patched?
<jrwren> hrm... lauchpad UI fail.
<jrwren> https://launchpad.net/cloud-init/trunk/0.6.3  I should be able to browse code for that milestone, but I cannot :(
<smoser> well you can get that trunk tag. i think from trunk
<smoser> hold on
<smoser> yeah
<smoser> $ bzr tags | grep 0.6.3
<smoser> 0.6.3                557
<jrwren> ah, right. TY
<smoser> jrwren, hey..
<smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/cloud-init/precise-proposed
<smoser> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise-updates/cloud-init precise-updates.dist
<smoser> that should get you waht you want.
<smoser> and actually is what the answer is *supposed* to be
<smoser> but in the past the bzr importer for cloud-init had gotten foobarred.
<jrwren> thanks.
<jrwren> that gets me what will be in the next ubuntu-12.04-cloudimg snapshot, ah I see, and prior to aug14 the prev commit was january that should cover latest cloudimg. huge thanks
<cmaloney> http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/books.html#ppid
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> Hey, it means I don't have to keep the 1985 book on my shelf of prolog for Programmers
<cmaloney> big win for shelf space
<dzho> hehe "Donald Nute"
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://earache.bandcamp.com/album/the-disappearing-humans
<cmaloney> btw: Open Metalcast is on http://metalinjection.fm
<cmaloney> http://drj11.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/coffeescript-is-4-times-shorter-than-c/
<cmaloney> It's shit like this that makes me weep
<brousch> cmaloney: Duck grinding tonight
<greg-g> .....
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Stupid video driver
<cmaloney> brb. reboot
<waf> just set up bookie on my laptop in prep for tomorrow's sprint
<waf> man, this is a nice install process. painless rick_h++
<brousch> rick_h is master of the Makefile
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-31
<waf> yeah, it was damn impressive
<brousch> His makefiles are so beautiful they make RMS weep
<gamerchick02> who's makefiles?
<gamerchick02> or should i say whose. ahem
<waf> gamerchick02: rick_h's bookie install makefiles https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/develop/Makefile
<gamerchick02> ah!
<gamerchick02> figure it'd be rick_h. :)
<rick_h> waf: awesome, glad it worked out nicely. Spent a LOT of time trying to make the install process smooth
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live now!  Live E099 Video http://youtu.be/p5umOYU3eK8 - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> SMLR is also on #smlr
<cmaloney> brousch_: I got the referral for Ting. Thank you.
<jcastro> cmaloney: craig
<jcastro> craig
<jcastro> craig
<jcastro> around?
<rick_h> jcastro: here's here
<rick_h> at the sprint, where you should be :P
<cmaloney> Hey man
<cmaloney> what's up?
<jcastro> hey
<cmaloney> jcastro: ^
<jcastro> you think we should do a subforum on discourse for MI?
<jcastro> Also I just had an awesome idea
<cmaloney> I'm up for it
<cmaloney> What do we need to do?
<jcastro> I can sort it all out he subforum part)
<cmaloney> cool
<jcastro> but I also have a seperate idea
<jcastro> let's have an end-of-summer BBQ at a park or something
<cmaloney> So today? :)
<cmaloney> But yeah, that would be awesome
<jcastro> yea
<jcastro> end of summer officially
<cmaloney> Do you have access to the calendar?
<jcastro> but really, we have like a month
<jcastro> or even if we don't do end of summer
<jcastro> do Fall Hangout
<jcastro> or like "Fall Hayride" or something
<jcastro> k, so I'm bailing for the weekend soon to go to Niagra, but I can propose something to the list
<jcastro> and from looking at the map
<rick_h> http://goo.gl/JaDQid
<jcastro> it has to be Royal Oakish
<jcastro> something close to 75
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/519/detail/
<jcastro> rick_h: well played sir
<jcastro> cmaloney: are you going to OLF?
<jcastro> rick_h: same question
<rick_h> jcastro: no, not going :(
<jcastro> rick_h: man so I discovered Fn-Space on my X230
<cmaloney> I'm not going to be able to make it
<jcastro> this backlit keyboard
<jcastro> hey rick_h
<jcastro> non linux question for you
<jcastro> do you guys do winter tires on your vehicles?
<cmaloney> I don't
<cmaloney> but my dad does
<jcastro> do he does the whole, change tires twice a year thing?
<jcastro> jill's doing a decent commute now and I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle
<jcastro> but rkather said he started doing it for his wife's SUV and it's like epic.
<rick_h> jcastro: not yet. i will on the touareg in a bit and I've got decent tires non-snow on the subaru
<jcastro> the tourage has the oem tires
<jcastro> hankooks i think?
<rick_h> yea, it's worth the hassle. I plan on using belle tire, they'll store and such for you now. They pack them into bags, take them to a warehouse, and then bring them back when you want them swapped
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, they're crap tires from the factory
<rick_h> jcastro: I bought it end of Feb and hated them beyond belief
<jcastro> hmmm, they seemed ok to me
<jcastro> <--- knows jack about tires
<rick_h> no, not compared to the ones I put on the subaru. I was all over the place :(
<jcastro> oh oh
<jcastro> wait
<jcastro> so if I go to belle tire
<jcastro> they will store my summer tires onsite?
<rick_h> jcastro: not on site, but a nearby warehouse
<jcastro> oh ok, well, I meant to say
<jcastro> enough for me not to care
<rick_h> http://www.belletire.com/tire-storage-system
<jcastro> so like the Wagen's OEM tires are done October-ish, and I was thinking of getting dedicated winters
<rick_h> yea, that's my plan. I don't want to keep them in the garage
<jcastro> and then in march another set of summers
<jcastro> do you plan to keep seperate wheels for each set? or just have them redo the tires everytime on your existing rims?
<rick_h> I have to do wheels to since they don't make winter tires in 19" for me
<jcastro> oh
<rick_h> so I'll have 17" with winter tires + 19" with summer
<jcastro> so you go smaller or so
 * jcastro nods
<rick_h> right
<jcastro> "Belle Tire will transport your tires and wheels to our Distribution Center in cutting edge Tire Gloves â specially designed bags that protect your tires and wheels during storage."
<jcastro> hahah come on
<jcastro> seriously
<jcastro> TIRE GLOVES
<jcastro> sounds like "cable elevators" to me
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-01
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> There's about an hour left of my show on http://metalinjection.fm
<cmaloney> I <3 this song
<cmaloney> Morality (mind.area rmx)
<cmaloney> Sounds like a later Skinny Puppy track
<cmaloney> Reminder: We'll be having our monthly meeting tonight at 9pm
<gamerchick02> thanks for the reminder. i'll just leave my irc logged in. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-25
<cmaloney> brousch: Thank you. :)
<wolfger> Good morning.
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> Good morning
<wolfger> So Ford work was fun for a short while. Now it's feeling like Chrysler... twiddling thumbs and waiting.
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, Ford and Chrysler are quite similar in many regards.
<jrwren_> wolfger: you work for Ford?
<wolfger> jrwren_: I work for Sandalwood Engineering. We have multiple contracts, including Chrysler and Ford. I used to be a straight-up Chrysler contract worker. Came to Sandalwood about a year ago, and currently working at Ford until the next Chrysler project is ready to go.
<jrwren_> wolfger: ah, cool.
<wolfger> Variety is always nice. I get to taste multiple flavors of corporate inefficiency. :-D
<wolfger> My favorite inefficiency so far is having to run IE8 in a virtual machine to be able to use a Ford-standard IT system.
<jrwren_> ha!
<cmaloney> Again, not much difference between the two. :)
<jrwren_> 'cept for public v. private.
<jrwren_> and from what we know, profit v. not.
<cmaloney> Culturally they were quite similar when I was there
<cmaloney> with folks inside telling me that "The New New New New Chrysler" is even more paranoid than when I was there.
<wolfger> cmaloney: confirmed
<wolfger> Ford, so far, is much nicer atmospherically.
<wolfger> I am back on IRC, after all :-D
<cmaloney> Yeah
<brousch> http://38.media.tumblr.com/d8f4e193c842f1b15fc489fbc9566dac/tumblr_nal4p9J0151s4df8ko1_1280.png
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r2zGKk - image/png
<brousch> Gah, bookiebot, come on. "A Judgemental Map of Detroit" ^
<cmaloney> Ted Nugent is no longer in Michigan.
<jrwren_> cmaloney: lets sing "ding dong the witch is dead."
<cmaloney> har har
<wolfger> that map doesn't even cover my city. Phooey.
<wolfger> So does bookiebot keep a collection of all links posted here?
<cmaloney> wolfger: It used to. Not sure if it still does or not.
<cmaloney> https://bmark.us/bookiebot/recent
<wolfger> Man, SCO still exists?
<greg-g> did Ted bug out in his bug out vehicle with all of his guns and shit?
<cmaloney> I think he moved to Texas because Michigan started taxing him too much
<cmaloney> Hm, not seeing anything to corroborate that assertion
<cmaloney> I think he still has land in Michigan.
<wolfger> "I left Detroit because the liberal Democrats engineered the absolute suicide of this fantastic city with their horrific anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-independence agenda," said Nugent.
<wolfger> What a loon
<wolfger> Nugent still owns 300 acres of property in western Jackson County, which is used as a hunting ranch, known as Sunrize Acres, and a part-time residence for the rocker and his family. Nugent's primary residence is Waco, Texas.
<greg-g> *WACO*?!
<wolfger> So there you have it... the Motor City Madman is now the Whacko From Waco.
<greg-g> muthereffing
<wolfger> but he will keep hunting in Michigan
<jrwren_> Waco is a pretty nice city.
<jrwren_> beautiful ranches. I think it has a river going through it or something, so its not super dry.
<wolfger> Yeah, Waco has beautiful ranches... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/n6GLx - Waco siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<jrwren_> wolfger: yes, Jenett Reno liked to kill inoscent people. She isn't around anymore.
<wolfger> The truth will likely never be known, but people who believe they are innocent of wrongdoing usually do not fight authorities to the death.
<cmaloney> I'm not sure you can categorically make that statement
<wolfger> which statement?
<cmaloney> "...people who believe they are innocent of wrongdoing usually do not fight authorities to the death."
<wolfger> I think the qualifier of "usually" makes it true.
<cmaloney> I'd submit the reverse is more likely
<jrwren_> most people would never fight authorities.
<cmaloney> if you're innocent you'll fight tooth and nail to continue to be seen in that light
<wolfger> Your statement holds true for the innocent man who has lost all faith in the legal system
 * greg-g raises hand
<wolfger> but most people, in my opinion, have enough faith in the legal system to try the courts over a firefight that logically cannot be won.
<greg-g> really? I guess my friend circle is biased
<wolfger> at least, once the tv crews get there, I would feel confident in making it to trial
<cmaloney> Well, if you're sole organizational purpose is waiting for the eventual breakdown in society and the end of the world having a standoff with armed authorities is the fudge topping to that dessert.
<wolfger> prior to tv crews arriving, I would be less willing to come out
<wolfger> cmaloney: good point
<wolfger> but regarding my statement: I think the number of arrests made without gunfire is a good stat in my favor. :-p
<jrwren_> its sad that most people are that naive
<jrwren_> number of arrests without gunfire is unrelated.
<wolfger> I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here.
<jrwren_> most arrests have nothing to do with anyone wanting to fight authorities or even fight for freedom.
<jrwren_> If I had to guess, I would guess that DUI constitutes most arrests.
<jrwren_> If not most, then highest number of a single type
<cmaloney> http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/persons-arrested
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/KoTYSE - FBI â Arrests
<cmaloney> Highest number (outside of traffic violations) is Drug-related
<cmaloney> Which is pathetic
<cmaloney> And a good number of those are related to marijuana posession
<cmaloney> Which is pathetic
<jrwren_> cmaloney: nice.
<wolfger> Yes....
<wolfger> and?
<jrwren_> wolfger: we are not communicating.
<wolfger> I'm failing to see how what you're saying is related to what I was talking about.
<jrwren_> Its ok.
<jrwren_> I don't think I understand you.
<wolfger> and yes, I agree that the number of arrests for marijuana is very sad
<wolfger> cmaloney challenged my assertion that "...people who believe they are innocent of wrongdoing usually do not fight authorities to the death.", and I was saying that the number of arrests in which the arrestees do not even attempt to kill the police is kind of a point in my favor. How many of those people believe they are innocent is another, unknowable, matter.
<jrwren_> I see.
<jrwren> Number of arrests in those cases specifically supports your statement.
<wolfger> mostly I'm just trying to keep a conversation going because sitting on my thumbs for 8 hours is painful. I could/should have stayed home.
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> read reddit?
<wolfger> I'm leary of reddit's sfw-ness
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> make your own reddit account, unsubscribe from all the defaults and subscribe to good subreddits.
<wolfger> maybe that's just me ;-)
<jrwren> it can be very SFW if you use it wisely
<wolfger> I like to hang out in Funny and WTF, which are iffy and hell-no respectively
<wolfger> or various gaming reddits, but I've already read those for today and new material doesn't come very quickly
<wolfger> Brewing and TheBrewery get new content even less frequently
<wolfger> ...and the person I've been waiting for all day just postponed until "tomorrow afternoon, or Wednesday". I'm outta here.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Evening.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-26
<cmaloney> good morning
<brousch> https://jawbone.com/blog/napa-earthquake-effect-on-sleep/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Eql5gt - How did the Napa earthquake affect sleep?
<PhillyMelt02> I used to live in California (LA area) and was woken up by several smaller quakes during my time there.
<PhillyMelt02> It was really tough to get back to sleep after that
<PhillyMelt02> That is a cool article and visualization of the data
<brousch> A small example of what we can begin to do with this internet of things and wearables
<mrgoodcat> talking about the jawbone article?
<brousch> yeah
<dzho> I guess it's just me, then, that all this tracking is beyond creepy.
<dzho> I mean, my phone still nags me because I have location services turned off.
<brousch> Well this is opt-in tracking, so presumably these people know and approve of it
<mrgoodcat> also, i think it would be far more creepy if it was the government
<mrgoodcat> but since its a private company with permission it doesn't really bother me
<PhillyMelt02> I think it also depends a lot on what you are sharing.  Location is different than sleep cycle.
<jrwren> government can track you even with location services turned off.
<dzho> jrwren: that's a bit circular, given that the government now points to the fact that so many people submit to monitoring by the private sector as a justification for why its no big deal that it monitors people.
<dzho> mrgoodcat: see also
<dzho> brousch: yeah, opt-in is really the difference, here, but that difference is papered over pretty easily.
<dzho> brousch: thing is, widespread digital surveillance and tracking is ceasing to be opt in.
<dzho> Want your kid to buy lunch?  Sign up with our lunch accounting web application!
<dzho> eg, through school.
<dzho> which, you know, is mandatory.
<brousch> I don't understand why that bothers people. Now you know your kid is buying lunches with the lunch money
<brousch> So does the goverment. Why is this a problem?
<brousch> How can this be used for evil?
<dzho> no problem at all.
<dzho> what could possibly go wrong with holding data on food allergies, for instance?
<dzho> tjere
<dzho> d'oh
<brousch> Sounds useful to me
<dzho> of course it does.
<dzho> just so long as the gubmint doesn't do it, because that would be creepy.
<dzho> wtf.
<dzho> oh, wait, this *is* the government doing it.
<brousch> Why is that creepy?
<dzho> heh
<dzho> I don't know, ask mrgoodcat
<jrwren> I don't know what I said that is circular. I simply made a related statement.
<dzho> I trust the government to always have my best interests at heart, implicitly.
<jrwren> Government can track you even with location services turned off.
<dzho> jrwren: it's just a simple matter of programming, after all.
<jrwren> dzho: will you fill out the FAFSA so your kid can get college aid?
<dzho> jrwren: a ways off, but yeah, that'll be almost as fun as doing tax returns!
<dzho> I can't wait!
<jrwren> :)
<dzho> (srsly, though, this is a funny thing people do:  You say "A sucks" so they say "oh yeah, but B sucks too so there!")
<jrwren> My dad refused to fill out FAFSA citing privacy concerns. As a result, no college aid for me. Bonus result: I could not get college loans so graduated college debt free.
<jrwren> I prefer my story of most other peoples story of "so much student loans"
<dzho> You Won't Believe This Surprise Ending!
<jrwren> haha.
<jrwren> I did not mean to say "this sucks too"... but I totally did. Sorry about that.
<dzho> The College Aid Secret Banks Hate.
 * dzho <-- got a full ride back in the day
<jrwren> What I meant to say: If you really want to stay hidden you have to turn your phone off.
<jrwren> congrats on your full ride.
<dzho> haha, thanks, but it was a long time ago
<dzho> I think "public" education now costs as much as private education cost then.
<brousch> Way more. It is insane
<dzho> anyway, it's a fine line between not totally giving in and letting everything about us be tracked quite literally down to the level of when we roll the fuck over in bed, and being a crazy refusenik hermit.
<brousch> I used some number and came up with $250,000 for my son to go 4 years at U-M in 2026
<dzho> damn
<dzho> I'm sure it'll be cheaper if you just agree to have $CORPORATION tattoo its name on his forehead though.
<dzho> wcpgw
<dzho> (I guess someone actually did that, though.  This is the problem Charles Stross has writing near-future fiction.  Crazy stuff keeps happening already now.)
<brousch> Bah, tattoos are outdated. He will have a virtual tattoo which is displayed in the most popular augmented reality layers
<mrgoodcat> tattoo changes based on who is looking at your forehead
<jrwren> dzho: mine was a long time ago too. I don't know if an 18-25 yr old could now do what I did then.
<brousch> You'd need a really well-paying job
<jrwren> I didn't go to U of M either though.
<brousch> I saw an article that basically said it's impossible to work through full-time college now
<jrwren> And I did at least have free room and board - its called living with my Dad.
<jrwren> brousch: work full time and college full time?  I'd suggest that its always been impossible.
<dzho> heard a thing the other day that said back in the day you could have done it by working summers
<jrwren> It would all depend on pay rate
<dzho> pretty darned close, actually: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/aug/08/facebook-posts/1978-someone-minimum-wage-could-earn-enough-summer/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YjcBTZ - Could a minimum-wage earner in 1978 earn enough in a summer to pay a full year's tuition? | PolitiFact
<jrwren> Could do it now working summers if you were payed $100/yr :)
<jrwren> oh, min wage, lolz
<dzho> I think that's a very revealing comparison, to tie together minimum wage and tuition.
<jrwren> I totally agre.
<brousch> WMU just told me $8000/semester, . So you'd need to earn $2000/mo to pay for that
<jrwren> I wonder what min wage would be if tied to tuition. Probably $50/hr or something.
<jrwren> brousch: $2000/mo is doable, right?
<jrwren> That is $12/hr, before taxes.
<brousch> If you can handle 12 credit hours and work 40 hours/wk
<jrwren> I think most college kids could find a job making that much.
<brousch> Where such work is scheduled around your academic schedule
<jrwren> 12 and 40 is tough. I often did 12 and 30.
<jrwren> or 8 and 40
<brousch> 30 hours/wk is probably more likely, and that devotes all of your weekends to work
<jrwren> oh yeah, I didn't consider weekends.
<jrwren> I should have picked up a Sunday job back then.
<brousch> Maybe waiting tables or something
<brousch> So I think it's still possible in Kalamazoo
<jrwren> kzoo promise!
<jrwren> but you aren't in kzoo eh?
<brousch> No, but I use them because they have decent university in a relatively inexpensive location
<dzho> So, let's look at the ratio in 1978:  minimum wage was $2.65, and average tuition and fees was $688.  Current avg tuition apparently is almost $9000.
<dzho> So, minimum wage would have to be $35, if I did this right: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8150369/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lj982v - Ubuntu Pastebin
<jrwren> yow
<dzho> but, you know, we're keeping taxes low, right?
<dzho> hahahahaha!
<brousch> Both of my parents worked through WMU without loans
<jrwren> brousch: in the 60s?
<brousch> ~1970
<jrwren> cool.
<dzho> source for current tuition and fees: http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fxQlF - What's the Price Tag for a College Education? - COLLEGEdata - Pay Your Way
<dzho> it's down the page a bit
<jrwren> i don't know dc well enough to read it.
<dzho> oh.
<dzho> it's postfix notation
<jrwren> i know.
<jrwren> I still don't know it well enough.
<jrwren> e.g.
<dzho> number number operation instead of number operation number.  not that hard
<dzho> p is "print"
<jrwren> why is 12 13 4 / result in 0
<jrwren> err.
<jrwren> why is 12 3 4 / result in 0
<dzho> the only really obscure thing is the radix
<jrwren> but 12 4 3 / result in 1  ?
<dzho> that's what the "4 k" bit is.
<jrwren> that isn't short for 4000 ?
<dzho> "here is a 4.  Make that the number of decimal points you display"
<dzho> I don't know why they picked "k" for that.
<jrwren> oh! that is bc's scale.
<dzho> 12 4 3 / will give you the result of 4 divided by 3, leaving 1.mumblesomething on the stack, with 12 beneath it
<jrwren> oh. i see.
<dzho> a stack is really the only data structure I understand I think.
<jrwren> 3 / 4 is zero.  12 / 0 is zero
<jrwren> wtff. still don't grock it
<dzho> 4 / 3 is 1
<dzho> 5 2 - is 3
<jrwren> haha, I grok stack, but being good at applying operators to a stack is something different.
<dzho> heh
<jrwren> why isn't 12 3 4 / p divide by zero ?
<dzho> because it doesn't round, I don't think.  It just limits what it displays?
<jrwren> oh.
<dzho> oh
<jrwren> yes, you are right.
<dzho> wait. the operators are binary only
<jrwren> thanks.
<dzho> so, you need 12 3 4 / / p
<jrwren> oh right, of course I do.
<jrwren> I should have known better. I guess its been 20yrs
<dzho> I took another go at Forth recently, so I'm sort of still tuned up a little on stack arithmetic.
<dzho> plus dc is my go to for quick calcs
<dzho> easy in easy out and then easy to copypasta into a text document
<jrwren> i always figured dc should be my go to, but bc is easier because there is NOTHING to learn.
<dzho> haha
<jrwren> shell is pretty easy too.  echo $((12/3))
<dzho> I tried bc once back in the day
<dzho> ahhhhh all those extra characters!
<dzho> but yeah, if I need something in a script $(()) is magic
<jrwren> for shell? yeah, but I know shell, so I see right through them.
<cmaloney> I totally use bc -l
<dzho> echo $((1 + $RANDOM % 5)) is a favorite for LUG meeting book giveaways.
<dzho> "pick a number between one and five"
<cmaloney> python -c "import random;print random.randint(1,5)"
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> (SECURE)Electronic Account Statement 0386494805_06112013 <- Seems legit
<dzho> it has lots of numbers, it must be right!
<nixternal> you guys still LoCo in Michigan or just MUG it?
<cmaloney> Please rephrase?
<cmaloney> There's still a loco in Michigan
<cmaloney> and MUG is still going. :)
<nixternal> yeah, shouldn't have used Michigan, should have just said Detroit :p
<cmaloney> There's not a whole lot of activity at the loco level though
<cmaloney> partially because most of the focus is phone or cloud, and partially because Canonical hired 'em all. ;)
<nixternal> haha
<greg-g> duuuuuude
 * greg-g is in a meeting, bbiab
<cmaloney> Oh, or we let them out of the state for some reason.
<greg-g> bah, still in meeting and he leaves
<brousch> Office drone just asked me to install his copies of current MS Office and Adobe Pro so he could do his homework at lunch
<ColonelPanic001> I haven't used identi.ca in ages, looks like it has gone to meet its maker. Where are all the cool linux people now?
<brousch> facebook
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<brousch> google+
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: Accept my Go challenge
<ColonelPanic001> hm, I'll go look in a minute
<cmaloney> identi.ca is still there.
<ColonelPanic001> sorry, this mobile client doesn't let me do it there, and I forgot to go there
<ColonelPanic001> I went to identi.ca and my old uername didn't work, and when I tried to register, it didn't work. Checking the ajax request, it said registeration wasn't allowed
<cmaloney> That said, I have a twitter bridge running and I have more than a few screenfulls of tweets
<cmaloney> I think they're trying to offload the strain on one server
<ColonelPanic001> I guess we could just run our own, really.
<ColonelPanic001> that could be neat
<cmaloney> https://microca.st is another instance
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fAI7qH - Welcome - Microca.st
<cmaloney> LMK if you log in to one and I'll follow you. :)
<ColonelPanic001> I was mostly doing it for the WSULUG
<ColonelPanic001> but if we started a server for it anyway, that'd be cool. We could just have members have accounts there, and one for "The Lug"
<cmaloney> Yep
<mrgoodcat> i really need to start hosting my irc sessions on my own computer
<mrgoodcat> my tmux runs on the WMU computer club server which has been down ~14 hours now
<cmaloney> weechat runs on a raspberry Pi just fine
<cmaloney> Nothing in the world worse than someone getting cuplicate email and then posting a question about it to a mailing list.
<cmaloney> +1 me too ditto +1 +1 +1 complain aggitation anger frustration denouncement vitriol destruction harghlabalarghlblalfaragh
<brousch> cmaloney: I know exactly which email you are talking about
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-27
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> evening if anyone's still around
<rick_h_> probably not I guess
<greg-g> me!
<greg-g> rick_h_: saw the photos, good job
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh hey fellow west coaster
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ty, was a lot of fun
<rick_h_> and nice walk back across the bridge and such
<rick_h_> watch says 25.9k steps today phew
<rick_h_> and some 2200 photos since Friday :/
<greg-g> WOW
<rick_h_> yea, crazy time
<rick_h_> haven't even made it to yosemite yet
<rick_h_> might just have to pass out under a tree there
<greg-g> when is that?
<rick_h_> tomorrow, pick up a rental car and head out to a cabin just south of the park until sat
<greg-g> sweet
<rick_h_> time to get out of this city :P
<greg-g> yes, yes it is
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Love the photos you're taking. :)
<cmaloney> all:I'll be late for CHC tonight. Working with one car until Thursday.
<mrgoodcat> hey hey
<cmaloney> and J gets priority. :)
<mrgoodcat> i won't be at CHC again
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: WAAAAAAAHHHHH
<cmaloney> What happened?
<mrgoodcat> my mom is bipolar and is having a difficult time these past few weeks
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: So this is a temp. thing (in as much as you have any say in this understandably)
<cmaloney> (also: if you need help, or somewhere to crash to recoup LMK)
<mrgoodcat> yea. i'll be able to start coming to meetings again eventually
<jrwren> Flying J?
<mrgoodcat> truck stop?
<jrwren> that is me. :)
<cmaloney> You're a truck stop now?
<cmaloney> God, I hope you at least clean the urinals more than once a week
<wolfger> heh
<brousch> cmaloney: Is your Go broken?
<cmaloney> No, I've been trying to concentrate on other things. :)
<cmaloney> (whoops)
<cmaloney> I have it email me whenever you take your turn but I didn't go back to check last night.
<brousch> Good. That will make you easier to beat.
<cmaloney> Thine trash talking is duly noted. :)
<wolfger> It's 2014, and I just confused an IT worker by saying something happened "while I was AFK". Didn't know what AFK meant.
<brousch> AFT
<wolfger> Now my father, who shuns the 21st century entirely, I would expect that from... but an IT worker?
<brousch> Away from touchscreen
<wolfger> Touchscreens... bah. Get off my lawn!
<brousch> If your phone is with you, you are not truly away from keyboard
<jrwren> what is AFT?
<jrwren> hahaha... touchscreen? really?
<jrwren> oh.. tablet.
<jrwren> AFT.
<brousch> Doesn't everyone work on a touchscreen now?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> Steve Jobs said that a touchscreen has no place on a laptop.
<wolfger> even touch screens have "keyboards"
<wolfger> horribly inefficient keyboards
<cmaloney> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121421093802
<cmaloney> Gah, bookiebot is awol as well.
<greg-g> cmaloney: that's "acceptable"?
<cmaloney> I think it's rubbish.
<mrgoodcat> oh is he?
<cmaloney> I meant the ebay auction was rubbish
<brousch> By denition
<brousch> definition
<mrgoodcat> i meant is he gone
<mrgoodcat> i already know he's rubbish
<mrgoodcat> :)
<wolfger> harsh
<cmaloney> bah. :)
<cmaloney> bookiebot: I still love you.
<cmaloney> .echo I love you too.
<bookiebot> I love you too.
<cmaloney> ;)
<wolfger> some times I think management is spending more manhours coming up with things to keep me busy than I am spending manhours being productive....
<cmaloney> Welcome to business 101
<jrwren> if the things add value, then its a good thing.
 * cmaloney just put new pads on his headphones that he had when he was at Chrysler.
<jrwren> <3 new headphone pads
<cmaloney> There should be a statute of limitations on hospital bills
<cmaloney> got one for FIL's visit at the end of May
<brousch> insurance can take a long time to resolve things
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-28
<cmaloney> Evening from CHC
<wolfger> good morning party people
<brousch> wolfger: Good morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<brousch> tired
<brousch> Was up until 1AM working on a photobooth for Grand Rapids mini Makerfaire
<wolfger> cool
<brousch> Yeah, but decided it was too ugly to use
<cmaloney> brousch: I wrote one for waldo's wedding
<cmaloney> https://github.com/craigmaloney/pygame_photobooth
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bKGx8h - craigmaloney/pygame_photobooth Â· GitHub
<cmaloney> It'll work fine on a laptop, but we had some problems getting it working on a Raspberry Pi
<brousch> Did it print?
<brousch> I was not involved with the software side this time, but the biggest problem was lack of printer drivers for Linux for the printer they chose
<brousch> I started work on a Kivy on RPi version, but stopped when they said the software was worked out
<cmaloney> brousch: WE just stored the photos, but you could set up something to do a poll in a directory and do a lpr on the photo
<cmaloney> and then remove the photo or archive it
<brousch> Using the RPi camera and a big button
<cmaloney> yeah, this was similar though it used an arduino for the button
<brousch> neat
<brousch> I really want one that's voice-driven
<cmaloney> so the arduino sent a "fire" signal down the wire, and did a little side-show blinking until the main program was ready.
<brousch> Actually voice activated would be bad since these are usually used at parties and such where there is a lot of noise
<brousch> Now I have to think of other features. Motion-activated would be easy. Maybe something to auto-adjust the camera to face-height
<cmaloney> brousch: The sky is, as they say, the limit. :)
<brousch> Did your photo booth show a live-feed from the video camera?
<cmaloney> Yes
<cmaloney> Along with some animation
<cmaloney> It should work with just pygame
<brousch> Taking the rpi cam feed and putting it into a gui is where I left off
<brousch> kivy
<cmaloney> though the variables will need some tweaking for locating the video camera
<brousch> I was using http://picamera.readthedocs.org/en/release-1.7/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/DEavDm - Documentation for picamera â Picamera 1.7 documentation
<brousch> I admit I didn't go very far, so it may be obvious
<wolfger> cmaloney: my day is officially over... I just read your "tweaking" as "twerking"...
<wolfger> as I tabbed to this room to LOL about "call for assistance" being named as "asscall" on the system I'm working on.
<brousch> wolfger: Now I have an image of cmaloney twerking. Thank you very much.
<wolfger> brousch: you're welcome very much
<brousch> A mental image, which is worse than a real image because it can't be closed or thrown away
<brousch> I'm drinking half-caf coffee this morning instead of decaf. It always tastes better.
<wolfger> plus: caffeine!
<wolfger> but I've never heard of half-caf. Is it sold that way, or just blended?
<brousch> just half regular and half decaf
<brousch> blended, yes
<brousch> So I can drink my 24oz of coffee but not die of heart palpitations
<wolfger> Not dying is good.
<wolfger> Caffeine is good.
<wolfger> All around a good choice. :-D
<cmaloney> This is fucking insane: http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/?.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Vx1Moc - Inside one of the world's largest bitcoin mines - The CoinsmanThe Coinsman
<cmaloney> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2estux/in_2008_i_bought_a_book_titled_php_6_six_years/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/34I8j6 - In 2008, I bought a book titled âPHP 6â³. Six years later, PHP version is still 5.5 : programming
<cmaloney> I still find this hilarious.
<wolfger> I think everything about bitcoin is insane. But maybe I just don't understand it?
<wolfger> Speaking of new versions of things that never seem to really arrive.... Perl? Enlightenment?
<aisrael> wolfger: ouch, two of my favorite things :(
<wolfger> Mine too :-(
<cmaloney> python is where it's all at
<wolfger> Hmm. Perl 6 is still vaporware, but it looks like e17 is finally actually here.
<aisrael> True enough, but Perl's like that friend who never gives up on you, even when you stop calling.
<aisrael> e17's been around for a couple years now, I think. :/
<wolfger> Perl is the awesomest way to manipulate data quickly. Which is primarily the type of programming I need to do in my job.
<wolfger> sadly, lately, I'm stuck using vba :'(
<nullspace> wolfger: ahahaah vba...
<cmaloney> wolfger: You poor poor bastard
<nullspace> I have yet to do anything in vba that was fast or easy as the developer interface is pretty useless
<brousch> wolfger: Enlightenment released!
<wolfger> nullspace: developer interface? You mean, Notepad++? :-D
<nullspace> either or, need an IDE
<brousch> This new map-making thing from Google is so hawt https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zrQvOoR-Erxg.kd3PEnNokuy8
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/pc9mIS - Baroda and Coloma Area Winery and Chocolate Tour
<brousch> You can add your own metadata to the places in a nice spreadsheet-like format, add directions and lines, share the maps like Google+ sharing, and it has a nice app from Google
<jcastro> cmaloney, http://smile.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-1m-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT08E4?sa-no-redirect=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/K4U0lu - Amazon.com: AudioQuest Diamond 1m (3.2 feet) Braided HDMI Cable: Electronics
<jcastro> read the reviews
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's eye-rollingly bad. :)
<cmaloney> There are few beter feelings than tearing the shrinkwrap off of a CD.
<cmaloney> save for tearing the shrinkwrap off of a CD that has airmail stickers on it. :)
<cmaloney> (on the envelope)
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Intro by The Foetal Mind on The Grand Contraction
<mrgoodcat> just downloaded my entire google location history
<mrgoodcat> 410899 data points in ~2 years
<trevlar> mrgoodcat: that's pretty cool.. any plans for the data?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-29
<cmaloney> Good morning
<wolfger> well, if nobody else is going to say it, I guess I will: Good morning, cmaloney
<brousch> I only say, "good morning" to him after he plays his turn in Go
<cmaloney> har har
<cmaloney> played
<cmaloney> (unlike ColonelPanic001 )
<cmaloney> wolfger: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2ew7lt/enlightenment_19_moves_to_rc3_lands_more_wayland/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/FJPZTl - Enlightenment 19 moves to RC3, lands more Wayland work : linux
<wolfger> e19? Are they skipping 18?
<wolfger> At some point this weekend I need to see if there's an ubuntu package for e17 and install it.
<aisrael> there is :D
<aisrael> I installed it yesterday
<wolfger> ++
<ColonelPanic001> HAY
<wolfger> any preliminary likes/dislikes?
<aisrael> Not yet. I still need to finish configuring x. I've used it before and liked it, though.
<wolfger> I used to use e16 way back in <mumble-cough> when I first started using Linux (Mandrake 7.2 off the store shelves). Loved it for a while, then decided to try everything else under the sun, and e16 just really paled next to KDE3. Hell, KDE4 pales next to KDE3. :-p
<wolfger> Now I hear KDE5 is coming, and I'm terrified.
<jrwren> wolfger: I used enlightenment back in the 0.8.x and 0.9.x, and maybe as far back as 0.6.x :)
<jrwren> it was SOOOOOoooo awesome in 1996
<cmaloney> rick_h_: http://yahooeng.tumblr.com/post/96098168666/important-announcement-regarding-yui
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/aWJKW0 - Important Announcement Regarding YUI | Yahoo Engineering
 * brousch comforts rick_h_
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-30
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Peets in Royal Oak closed up
<derekv> hi
<cmaloney> howdy
<trevlar> cmaloney: on woodward? geez
<derekv> thats fucking weird, place is always packed
<cmaloney> Yeah, not anymore.
<cmaloney> I think the midwest is just too hard for Peet's.
<cmaloney> save for Grosse Point and Ann arbor.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-31
<rick_h_> howdy back and all that jazz
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :/ oh well
<rick_h_> cmaloney: as to the peets closing
<rick_h_> their stupid 8pm close made no sense
<cmaloney> yeah, I think that was a contributing factor
<cmaloney> But ah well
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, time moves on
<cmaloney> Speaking of time moving on, you back in MI-land yet?
<rick_h_> yea, got in around midnight just in time for that lovely storm to blow through
<cmaloney> We didn't get anything down here AFAICT.
<cmaloney> Just a lot of wind
<rick_h_> oh, got rained on hard, road turned into a river for a bit
<rick_h_> of course that bit was as we pulled in and tried to get a tired cranky boy into the house with all of our luggage :)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh hey, what time is next weekend? Did we stick with 3pm? Or did we go back to 11?
<cmaloney> welcome back
<rick_h_> ty much
<rick_h_> glad to be home
<rick_h_> had fun, but want to settle down for a bit now
<cmaloney> I've got 3-6pm
<rick_h_> london, germnay, and CA all with one week in between and now I'm spent
<rick_h_> cmaloney: ok, and that's sunday right?
<rick_h_> or did we stick with sat?
<cmaloney> Sat.
<rick_h_> ok
<cmaloney> LMK if that needs changing
<rick_h_> no, all good. Just trying to remember
<cmaloney> Should be on your calendar. :)
<cmaloney> I invited you. :)
<rick_h_> yea, but I've got two of them there. The one from you is still sat at 11am
<cmaloney> orly?
<cmaloney> hm, disregard the 11am one.
<rick_h_> or maybe that's my old one
<cmaloney> I think that's your oold one.
<rick_h_> ok, updated
<derekv> if i divorced freeNas what should I try instead?
<rick_h_> derekv: a synology NAS
<rick_h_> derekv: there was someone in #bookie asking about building and working on the android app if you get time to catch him/her
<rick_h_> derekv: that'd be awesome, he was trying to load it into android studio. I thought waf got it working with mrgoodcat at CHC and upated the docs but guess it wasn't working
<derekv> yea if they can come to CHC or I can schedule a time to meet them if they are in the area
<derekv> otherwise i'd totally schedule some time some afternoon/weekend
<derekv> not this weekendâ¦
<rick_h_> derekv: I think he was very international, though maybe I should ask you to walk me through it and bootstrap me on it
<derekv> everyone seems to have trouble, I should update the docs
<rick_h_> derekv: all good, just happened to see the conversation with brousch and him (Vandan) when I got into irc
<rick_h_> updating to 1TB dropbox, yay
<derekv> WTB: good UPS
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<derekv> next kinesis advantage will replace the rubber function keys (confirmed) and have layershift (confirmed), everthing else is still hush
<derekv> for me, if its true split they can name their price
<derekv> i'll send them a blank check
<rick_h_> derekv: cool, love mine
<rick_h_> don't use the function keys much, just f3 for find-next
<derekv> i always wear out the ESC key
<rick_h_> ah, I map jj to esc for vim/zsh and so don't use it much
<rick_h_> it's too far away to use regularly imo
<brousch> derekv: I failed to get bookie Android running under Android Studio
<brousch> compiled
<brousch> I think the final problem I had was with bookie parsr client
<derekv> ok
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/a4rLb1NFbHn
<gamerchick02> dude. i love those!!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-24
<cmaloney> Evening
<brousch> Yes
<brousch> My 2nd 3D printer is working. This one is a resin printer
<cmaloney> https://www.redpah.com/product/1514/the-bird-cookie-cutter
<cmaloney> Print that for me pls. ;)
<brousch> I don't have food-grade filament
<cmaloney> http://3dmag.org/en/market/item/1223/ <- or this
<brousch> I will print the gnome
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:320529/
<cmaloney> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:531178
<locodir-user> I have a question can some one here help me?
<brousch> Maybe!
<brousch> cmaloney: I think the joke with the gnome is that the outstretched arm will be a bastard to print well
<brousch> I can print it about 8" tall in 13 hours
<brousch> I need a better color though. All I have is white and green
<cmaloney> The zx80 is white
<brousch> How big is that supposed to be?
<brousch> Seems tiny
<cmaloney> 174 x 216 x 36 mm
<cmaloney> http://www.retroisle.com/sinclair/zx80/general.php
<cmaloney> I've only held one in my hot little hands. Wasn't able to get my friend to part with it.
<cmaloney> I don't think it was his
<cmaloney> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timex-Sinclair-1000-ZX80-/181840958447?hash=item2a5690d3ef
<brousch> Hm, that model is like 1/2 that size
<brousch> And it's basically square
<brousch> I can print it, but it seems like the dimensions are quite far off
<brousch> I found better models, but they are too big for my build plate. I can only do 180x180
<cmaloney> That's OK. I was being mostly a smart-assl. :)
<brousch> It's really no problem to print it if the model fits. Some day I'll get around to splitting models into pieces
<brousch> I got the good models from here. You could order one from shapeways http://www.sinclairzxworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1508
<cmaloney> brousch: Heh.
<cmaloney> It was just a lark more than anything.
<cmaloney> Much like "friend with pickup truck = moving"
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Whassup in the land of rick_h_ ?
<brousch> Oooh, I missed a call from someone at Canonical
<rick_h_> crepes for lunch and listening  to seveneves for lunch break...it:s a good life
<rick_h_> brousch: cool
<cmaloney> neat
<brousch> Bah, phone tech support. I can't do that due to a slight hearing problem and hating phones
<cmaloney> I think phones are great
<cmaloney> said nobody in tech, ever
<greg-g> due, the technology that powered telephones was really awesome
<greg-g> dude*
<greg-g> using them? never
<cmaloney> Oh, from a tech standpoint I think Phones are amazing
<cmaloney> launching human voices across the globe at the speed of thought? Rock.
<greg-g> yah, pretty sweet stuff
<cmaloney> But I'll be fucked if I'm going to spend my life tethered to one
<greg-g> and the whole "never lose the dialtone" ethos of that group of technicians is also awesome
<jrwren> 150yr old tech at its finest
<cmaloney> greg-g: Totally
<cmaloney> About the only computer-group that really caught that ethos was mainframe developers
<cmaloney> UNIX folks? Bwahahahahaha
<greg-g> know what else was awesome to see used and maintained in-person? A babbage machine
<greg-g> heh
<cmaloney> I've seen videos. I'd love to see one in person
<cmaloney> behind sound-proof glass
<cmaloney> With ear-plugs
<greg-g> there's one that is demonstrated every Sat in Mountain View (at the Computer History Museum)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-25
<cmaloney> Morning and all that.
<rick_h_> party party
<cmaloney> I'm ready for August to be over now
<brousch> No. Makerfaire GR is this weekend, then it can be over
<cmaloney> OK, we can allow that then
<brousch> I am wrong, it is Labor Day weekend
<brousch> September can come now
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> why do we want to kill off august?
<brousch> I don't, but if cmaloney wants it I won't argue
<wolfger> August can not be over until Sunday
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I've had quite a month. :)
<cmaloney> And JoDee's had it worse.
<cmaloney> dad-in-law fun
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :(
<greg-g> cmaloney: sorry to hear it :(
<cmaloney> Thanks.
<brousch> I'm having Dragonmead for the first time. Crown Jewels gets a big thumbs up
<cscheib> brousch: I prefer Kuhnhenn's stuff
<brousch> Is that another brewery?
<cscheib> yes
<cscheib> http://www.kbrewery.com/
<cscheib> I don't like Dragonmead because they act as though they don't want your business (no group reservations, no pulling tables together, no splitting of bills whatsoever, etc...)
<brousch> Ah, well this is a bottle from a store
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-26
<cmaloney> morning
<derekv> anyone ever seen this structure?  /etc/somefooservices/conf.empty
<derekv> i'm trying to figure out wtf conf.empty is supposed to be fore
<derekv> its part of the install package
<derekv> be fore.  or be aft.  or before. or aftre.
<derekv> twoee timre twooe be fore
 * derekv is losing his mind
<derekv> ok figuring it out, its their fartbrained way of saying "example configs"...
<cmaloney> https://soundcloud.com/professorkliq/nations-theme
<cmaloney> <3
<derekv>  /etc/foo/conf is a symlink to /etc/alternatives/foo/conf, which is a symlink to /etc/foo/conf.empty
<derekv> i don't get any of this
<derekv> i don't even get why foo is set up as part of alternatives
<cmaloney> Well that's strange
<cmaloney> Bean and Leaf wireless won't let me ssh to home, or browse Slashdot.org
<cmaloney> but Yahoo and Google are fine
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-27
<rick_h_> evening
<greg-g> cmaloney: well, you shouldn't be browsing slashdot.org anyways
<wolfger> greg-g: why the slashdot hate?
<jcastro> greg-g: dude greg
<jcastro> dude greg
<jcastro> https://twitter.com/NeilShubin/status/636875524632150016/photo/1
<jcastro> this reminded me of you
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Funny enough it was just me trying to remember sites that I thought would be up
<cmaloney> jcastro: That's um... morbid? :)
<jcastro> http://www.yankeeairmuseum.org/airshow/performers/
<jcastro> so I just found out the blue angels are in town
<cmaloney> That's cool
<cmaloney> Found out firsthand from them flying into Willow Run? :)
<jcastro> no last year though I was driving
<jcastro> and an F16 buzzed I-94
<jcastro> and I vowed to never miss a show if I'm going to live by here
<cmaloney> Awesome
<cmaloney> That is one thing I miss about living in Belleville: having impromptu aircraft flying overhead
<cmaloney> There's nothing quite like having a bomber fly over your apartment
<cmaloney> Enough to put the fear of God into anyone, let alone someone who is on the business-end of thos bombs.
<jcastro> A real B-29 is what I want to see
<cmaloney> I'm back on Twitter.
<brousch> I thought I felt a rumble. I assumed it was just indigestion.
<cmaloney> Heh
<greg-g> jcastro: except, you know, that's wrong :)
<greg-g> wolfger: is there /. love?
<jcastro> 35 seems high
<greg-g> its low
 * greg-g is looking for the articles
<jcastro> http://www.pnas.org/content/108/4/1267.abstract
<jcastro> someone linked to that
<jcastro> greg-g: are you paleo for real? I was just guessing/trolling
<greg-g> no
<greg-g> I just had two donut holes for breakfast
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> that isn't paleo
<jrwren> its also not much food :)
<greg-g> Hotel "breakfast" option
<jrwren> ugh.
<greg-g> there will be more food, and real food, at the office this morning
<greg-g> I just want to drink some free coffee first :)
<jrwren> hotel & office. Where are you at?
<greg-g> SF
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Tim Hortons is totally Paleo
<cmaloney> Timbits FTW
<jrwren> greg-g: why at hotel?  oh man, greg-g just woke with his mistress... not cool greg-g. you are married.
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> greg-g: the playa
 * rick_h_ is having a hard time seeing it
<greg-g> so, I've been here 3 days (Tue/Wed/Thur), Wed/Thur are an "offsite" (but onsite) for engineering managers. I *could* bus home after dinner last night, but I wouldn't get back home until ~10:30, and then I'd have to et up at 5:45 to catch a 6:30 bus back
<brousch> jrwren: He could be in an open relationship. Don't judge.
<greg-g> jrwren: you don't know our arrangement, dont' judge ;)
<jrwren> pffff
<brousch> hah, see!
<greg-g> :) :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: a good number of our engineers sent out "heading to the burn today, see ya!" emails
<rick_h_> brousch: was more trying to picture greg-g beard and all in a purple playa suit from the 60s/70s with a giant collar
<jrwren> i always knew I liked your wife :p
<cmaloney> I'm in a perfectly open relationship. If I ever cheated on JoDee she'd open me up like a fish
<jrwren> leisure suit greg-g
<cmaloney> rick_h_: I can totally see that
<greg-g> 10 years ago? totally
<greg-g> not so much any more
<rick_h_> greg-g: and none of them invited me to go?
<cmaloney> From Leisure Suit Playa to Leisure Suit Larry in 10 years.
<greg-g> rick_h_: :)
<greg-g> this hotel is weird. it's one where half the rooms share bathrooms (per floor), ie it's cheaper but not quite an SRO, but it's playing hardcore electronic music right now
<greg-g> at 7:50 am
<cmaloney> soma.fm?
<jrwren> greg-g: WTF?!?! why are you at this hotel?  Also, what hotel? sounds awesome. I want to stay there if I ever go to SF
<greg-g> heh, I am wearing my somafm hat right now
<greg-g> jrwren: The Mosser
<greg-g> good location, all told, really
<cmaloney> I need to get some soma.fm wear at some point
<greg-g> 3 blocks from my office, right near Market St (main downtown street)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-28
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning and all that.
<cmaloney> Oh wait, it's afternoon already.
<cmaloney> Wheee
<greg-g> still morning :)
<greg-g> just in my first (and only) 1:1 of the day :)
 * greg-g is paying attention, promise
<cmaloney> uh huh
<cmaloney> Went over tot he neurologist with dad-in-law
<greg-g> shush
<greg-g> neurologist? wow
<cmaloney> that was fun. We used a transport service
<cmaloney> I've been up since 5:30am
<greg-g> :(
<cmaloney> Well, he was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease a while ago
<cmaloney> but we're starting to see other things and needed to get him in to see a "proper" neurologist
<cmaloney> Apparently this doctor wasn't shy about saying that the last guy we saw was a chucklehad.
<greg-g> glad you have a better doctor now
<cmaloney> Thanks
<cmaloney> I think it's a step in the right direction
<cmaloney> At least we can get some better answers
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> greg-g: limiting calls on friday ftw
<rick_h_> cmaloney: good to hear about getting good help
<cmaloney> Thank you.
<greg-g> rick_h_: this was a special case because our normal day (thursday) I had an all day manager retreat (on wed/thurs, actually)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: and since this sprint is a driving to sprint, packed up a box of wine for the sprint :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah, yea thurs is my call day of doom
<greg-g> wed is mine :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Those poor poor shaken bottles
<rick_h_> 8am to 8pm ugh
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :)
<cmaloney> they'll need to be drunk right away
 * cmaloney rushes over with glasses and a corkscrew
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh there's plenty left
<rick_h_> I need to get a wine fridge soon
<rick_h_> or at least a larger rack
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> stacking milk crates on their sides isn't working any more
<cmaloney> Yeah, proper wine rack is in order
<cmaloney> but you don't need to go overboard. :)
<rick_h_> no
<jrwren> a box of wine in bottles, or a box of wine? :)
 * cmaloney just imagined some wine rack that slowly turns the bottles to keep sediment from sedimenting
<cmaloney> jrwren: Hey, the boxed wine is my jam
<cmaloney> Bota FTW
<rick_h_> jrwren: a box that holes 12 bottles of wine
<rick_h_> jrwren: though atm there's only 9 with room for 3 wine glasses
<jrwren> cmaloney: the same guy that made popular boxed wine, is responsible for trader joes cheap wine.
<cmaloney> I'd believe it
<jrwren> rick_h_: cool box
<greg-g> 2 buck chuck
<cmaloney> 3
<cmaloney> They raised the price
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-30
<cmaloney> Morning
<brousch> greg-g: You should enter the "Homeless Guy or Programmer" contest.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-29
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2016/08/28/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-16/
<Scary_Guy> ooh, thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-30
<cmaloney> morning and all that
<cmaloney> how are things?
<Scary_Guy> good
<Scary_Guy> sorting tunes
<cmaloney> Fun times.
<jrwren> autobiographically?
<Scary_Guy> Yes, I get that reference; and no, but I can go into deatil if you like
<Scary_Guy> all music gets sorted into genres, and then artist - year - track - ## - name.ext
<Scary_Guy> I'm finding that to be a bit unmanagable though so I'm taking artists that I have a lot of and sorting them into their own folders
<Scary_Guy> so /genre/artist/file.ext instead
<jrwren> genre !
<jrwren> how do you decide?
<jrwren> impossible I say.
<jrwren> do you put madonna into techno or pop? or split her albums between both?
<Scary_Guy> it's not easy but whatever it sounds to be the most like, that's where I stick it
<Scary_Guy> some split, usually she's in pop
<jrwren> I fell down a rabbit hole: https://alexpearce.me/2014/05/italics-in-iterm2-vim-tmux/
<Scary_Guy> she doesn't belong in the same universe as Kraftwerk, let alone the same directory
<cscheib> definitely wouldn't sort by genre for my music
<cscheib> but, I just use Spotify now, because it's awesome
<cmaloney> About the only genre distinction I use is Jazz and Classical
<Scary_Guy> I use this to DJ
<cmaloney> and Soundtracks
<Scary_Guy> so it helps to have like songs in the same spot
<Scary_Guy> I have soundtrack and soundtrack games
<cmaloney> (with a special place for Wendy Carlos, Tomita, Steve Roach, Redshift, and Christopher Franke)
<jrwren> do you split house from techno? I guess house instead of techno would be more suitable.
<Scary_Guy> house gets thrown in with pop, too similar
<Scary_Guy> although I'm going to split off the LA hardstyle
<jrwren> definitely a 1 man system.
<Scary_Guy> trance/gabber/wubstep have their own directory too
<jrwren> see... 1 man system. so hard to lump house with pop, but give each of those their own. I'm not knocking it. This is the greatness of diy.
<Scary_Guy> it's not great, it's a horrible task that is NEVER ENDING
<jrwren> indeed.
<Scary_Guy> I've got like, 400,000 songs and most of those need sorting
<cmaloney> I wish internet genres were more reliable
<cmaloney> and mroe prevalent
<cmaloney> Most of my digital collection is "No Genre"
<Scary_Guy> fuck internet, it can't make up it's damn mind
<cmaloney> And "Electronic" is the most useless genre
<Scary_Guy> I remember the days of Napster.  Every comedy song was either labeled as "Weird Al" or "Adam Sandler"
<cmaloney> 16 volt, Bjork, and Neurosis
<Scary_Guy> There's a whole rant about the "electronic" genre
<Scary_Guy> 16v!
<Scary_Guy> I also have a 9600 line text document of music I still need to find
<Scary_Guy> and that's just the main document too, there are others
<Scary_Guy> (lots of info overlaps but I'd rather have extra information than lose some)
<Scary_Guy> bbl, sleep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-31
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> I think the next Open Metalcast is going to be a stoner-metal episode
<cmaloney> Most, if not all, of the new albums I picked up are stoner metal
<cmaloney> Too bad Im not up to episode 420 because that would be a no brainer.
<jrwren> lol
<greg-g> cmaloney: yay! stoner metal!
 * greg-g loves a good stoner/shoegaze/fuzz album
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> This one is for you. :)
<greg-g> <3 cmaloney
 * greg-g subscribes to r/stonermetal
<shakes808> cmaloney: Metal Marley?!!!
<cmaloney> More like Black Sabbath and friends.
<NotRick> fun work day
<NotRick> wireless network went down. entire campus
<cmaloney> Which campus?
<jrwren> that is ColonelPanic001, so WSU I assume
<NotRick> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> sorry, in-channel joke
<ColonelPanic001> it's a good day to not work in networking
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> finally moved phones to ting. YAY!
<greg-g> jrwren: yay!
<greg-g> you didn't use my referral code, you jerk!
<jrwren> oh damn, well... i talked about it in here enough that if someone wanted to give me a referal code, I'd have used it :p
<cmaloney> You used my referral code?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-01
<jrwren> cmaloney: I may have? if you gave it to me.
<cmaloney> Heh
<Scary_Guy> stoner metal is good, more a prog rock guy though
<jrwren> what is stoner metal?
<cmaloney> Think Black Sabbath
<jrwren> oh.
<cmaloney> slower tempos
<cmaloney> Tends to fuse with psychadelia as well
<cmaloney> Kyuss is one of the cornerstone bands
<jrwren> never heard of 'em. I don't think its my thing.
<cmaloney> https://landskap.bandcamp.com/track/the-trick-to-letting-go <- try this on for size
<jrwren> 1:30 in and my thought is this is like drone without as much electronics applied... oh there are the vox... nevermind.
<jrwren> hey, cool, thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> jrwren: np
<cmaloney> Also: https://soundcloud.com/scissorkicks/tom-jones-the-cardigans
<jrwren> i put on some Straftanz already, so I'll give that a listen later.
<greg-g> yo, jcastro and jrwren and ri<tab>: honest opinions on how the virtual UDSes are going? Or, how are high-bandwidth discussions about arch/high level things happening now? differently? better? worse? etc?
<jcastro> I don't really attend them anymore
<jcastro> mhall or planella would know better than me
<greg-g> jcastro: so, how do you/your team communicate big plans now?
<greg-g> get buy-in etc
<jcastro> Jay, Rick, and I don't really work much on ubuntu as much as we consume it
<jcastro> but through the mailing list usually
<jcastro> lp blueprints, etc
<jcastro> we do have real-life summit for Juju though, so I guess I get direct user feedback that way
<greg-g> oh there is?
<greg-g> til
<jcastro> http://summit.juju.solutions/
<greg-g> .solutions?
<greg-g> seriously?
<jrwren> greg-g: its all run by millenials. no old TLDs allowed.
<greg-g> oh fads
<jrwren> greg-g: awesome TLDs like http://conjure-up.io
<jcastro> hippi.es
<cmaloney> .killme
<greg-g> cmaloney++
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-02
<dzho> the only thing I like about the proliferation of TLDs is the fantasy that 2nd level domains in them will proliferate and then be abandoned at such a rate as to start costing domain squatters real money just to host their databases
<dzho> speculation in limited resources is one thing: market making for risk yadda yadda
<dzho> but in a by-definition limitless completely artificial thing?
<dzho> YUNOFINDREALJOB
<Scary_Guy> I don't know as much about stoner metal as I'd like to.  maybe I confuse it with stoner rock
<Scary_Guy> goblin cock is just a funny name though
<Scary_Guy> like I'm sure some would classify Iron Butterfly's #1 hit but I had that vinyl and the rest was just a bunch of hippie stuff
<Scary_Guy> cmaloney, I'm wondering if you went to the Susperia/Secret Chiefs Three concert at The Crofoot a few years ago, that shit was amazing
<cmaloney> nope
<cmaloney> and yes, that iron butterfly album was one good song and a lot of not great meandering
<hpucks> Morning
<cmaloney> How goes?
<brousch> Scary_Guy: I like Sludge metal better than Stoner
<jrwren> what is reticulating splines in the installer?
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> at some point ubuntu installer says "reticulating splines" as a step
<jrwren> right before finishing
<cmaloney> That's a joke step
<cmaloney> from the old DOS games days
<cmaloney> (at least that's my theory)
<cmaloney> http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Reticulating_splines
<cmaloney> Is it stuck there?
<jrwren> no, not stuck. i was just curious about it.
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's the entymology
<jrwren> greatest office email ever: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/wiretap/watch-your-language-1.2984851
<cscheib> I don't recall there being any voices in SimCity 2000
<cmaloney> Maybe certain versions?
<cscheib> dunno.  I know I had the original release copy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-03
<Scary_Guy> cmaloney (and anyone else intersted) https://www.facebook.com/events/176905296040135/?notif_t=plan_edited&notif_id=1472846827792660
<Scary_Guy> Oh, sims, I figured it was related to the turbo encabulator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag
<Scary_Guy> Actually, I upgraded mom's laptop and while it was going through it said something about the "multiverse" and she was pretty amused by that
<Scary_Guy> sorry, updated, not upgraded
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: thanks, but i can't get to facebook. i have it blocked. O:-)
<Scary_Guy> very wise, I only use it to promote my events.  that one actually wasn't one of mine though
<Scary_Guy> http://www.hipindetroit.com/2016/09/win-tickets-to-see-tribulation.html
<cmaloney> ah, cool. thank you
<Scary_Guy> I have a house party to go to but plan on showing up around 8, maybe.  Depends on how fun the party is
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> ok, back to sleep, i hope
<cmaloney> g'night
<Scary_Guy> later
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<Scary_Guy> also what's chanserv doing hanging out?  that's unusual
<Scary_Guy> well I'm off to bed, later
<cmaloney> I think that's been in here
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-04
<greg-g> yeah, chanserv "protects" the channel, I forget what exactly, part of what I did when I registered it oh so many years ago
<Scary_Guy> lol
<Scary_Guy> "around 10 minutes" and over an hour later...  par for the course I guess
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-28
<Scary_Guy> Morning, HA BEAT YOU ALL!
<Scary_Guy> (cheating, haven't slept)
<cmaloney> tzag
<rick_h> morn
<brousch> quark
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-29
<notlikethesoup> morning
<rick_h> Morn
<jrwren> good morning
<Scary_Guy> good morning
<jrwren> Any NextCloud users?
<rick_h> No, not poked at it.
<jrwren> nor I. I've been putting it off, but I think I may like it. I just don't know.
<Scary_Guy> I'm lazy but interested
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Not played with it at all
<rick_h> greg-g: I just choked listening to that tweet you just RT
<rick_h> greg-g: gah! makes me so mad. "Unemployment is soooo low yay us!" at the same time as "the problem is all these people that haven't worked in 3 generations"
<rick_h> I don't get how you can possibly have it both ways
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> I thought I made you choke up with my Rowan tweet ;)
<greg-g> he was sooo excited! Glad we waited as long as we did to do this. He wasn't really ready before (might have been fine, but definitely more tears)
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that's exciting stuff
<rick_h> greg-g: we had first day of school yesterday so was fun to have him come home and tell us about his day
<rick_h> growing up so damn fast
<rick_h> greg-g: how old is he now?
<greg-g> 5.5
<rick_h> nice
<rick_h> yea, I was glad Michael was a late starter with his Dec b-day
<rick_h> always good for the little ones to have that extra time before hand
<greg-g> oh totally. Dec 11th for Rowan :)
<rick_h> greg-g: oh, I missed they were Dec buddies.
<greg-g> (me too actually ;) )
<cmaloney> Yeah, I was an early start with the Sept. birthday, so I was always the runt of the class.
<cmaloney> and look how I turned out? :)
<cmaloney> Unemployment figures are bullshit
<cmaloney> They're a number that they have an incentive to keep low
<jrwren> aug birthday. runt of class ehre.
<jrwren> plus I was always small
<cmaloney> Yeah, I started elementary when I was 6
<cmaloney> 1st grade: 6, 2nd grade 7
<cmaloney> etc.
<jrwren> no K?
<cmaloney> I did preschool and kindergarten at a different place (Justin preschool / Kindergarten)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-30
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> party
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-31
<rick_h> jrwren: https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m10-mark-iii-shooting-experience
<rick_h> Hit my feed this morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> awesome. I did pick it up, but she won't get it until tuesday.
<jrwren> oh, that is mark III, that isn't out yet.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I didn't know a new version was on the way
<jrwren> looks like a fairly minor upgrade, but the new UI features would probably have been nice. Oh well.
<cmaloney> Anyone in here more competent in C than I am (low bar) that might be able to see what I'm doing wrong here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/25438895/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/25438900/
<greg-g> the last C I wrote was freshman year of college. I promptly forgot it all after the homework.
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> that is a linker error.  -lreadline isn't doing the right thing
<jrwren> i'm going to guess you need to apt-get install libreadline-dev or somesuch
<cmaloney> I have it installed
<cmaloney> I'm trying to replicate some code from guile to see why paren mathing isn't working
<cmaloney> and I thought I'd carved out the right pieces to see what it is getting
<jrwren> put your linker args AFTER instead of before
<jrwren> https://askubuntu.com/questions/523934/cant-link-libreadline-on-ubuntu-14-04#523944
<cmaloney> you have to be kidding me
<cmaloney> ARGH!!!!!!!
<cmaloney> That worked. Thank you!
<jrwren> yw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-01
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning happy friday
<cmaloney> And to you as well
<wolfger> party party
<jrwren> Good morning. Happy Friday. Happy Labor Day. Enjoy a three day weekend.
<rick_h> the boy got a 4day weekend
<rick_h> school's out today and monday
<jrwren> how is he even in school?
<jrwren> i thought MI state law said school starts after labor day.
<jrwren> private school?
<rick_h> no, they moved back a week this year
<rick_h> public school
<rick_h> so he started this past monday
<jrwren> wow! I wish our district had done that.
<jrwren> you are Clarkston District, not Lake Orion District, right? I'm not sure where the line is on Sashebaw Rd.
<rick_h> Yea, clarkston
<jrwren> My sister lives right by Carpenter Elementary. I wonder if her boy started K.
<jrwren> that cloud-installer ppa I was complainig about rcently must have been ancient. it has all been in cloud-archive for a while. Silly me.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-02
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live now!  SMLR E247 (9/2/2017) Video: http://youtu.be/CJiMJwgOSow
<Scary_Guy> I thought it was usually on Sundays?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-03
<cmaloney> Evening
<Scary_Guy> hey
<rick_h> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-27
<mrgoodcat> anybody here have a kinesis advantage and/or ms sculpt? Or another ergo keyboard you recommend>?
<rick_h> I've got the kenisis
<rick_h> I use that and the freestyle pro <3
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: do you recommend?
<mrgoodcat> i assume "<3" means yes
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  I love them both. If you want to try them out you can come by sometime, it's a lot of $$
<mrgoodcat> it is a lot of $$
<rick_h> but you buy one, mine I got some 7 years ago
<rick_h> and it helps my wrists a ton
<mrgoodcat> first i'm going to try to get work to get it. but they've gotten sculpts for other people so they might try to just get me one of those instead
<rick_h> I'm not a fan of the MS lines
<rick_h> they switches such, and they're just not the quality imo
<mrgoodcat> yea i'm not a big fan of membrane switches
<greg-g> kinesis advantage here as well, also <3
<mrgoodcat> job is requiring me to get a note from my doctor. what a load of crap
<greg-g> "we won't help you with your ergonomics and do preventative care unless you already have an issue that is immensely difficult to take care of without taking substantial time off" is how I interpret that
<mrgoodcat> or you have an uncle that is a doctor
<mrgoodcat> which i do
<mrgoodcat> and he doesn't even have the same last name as me so it wont look weird
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> I did find a good doc here in Petaluma if you need a referral :P
<greg-g> and occupational therapist, finally. Fuck workers comp ftr.
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: if i ever move to sacramento i'll keep that in mind
<cmaloney> Probably also an accupuncturist and a chakra mechanic. ;)
<greg-g> heh, not really. :P I do know a legit Rolfer but he's expensive and I don't go anymore.
<mrgoodcat> work is going to get it looks like
<cmaloney> cool deal
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-28
<jrwren> whoa. https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2019/08/28/virglrenderer-state-of-virtualized-virtual-worlds/
<cmaloney> Oh, that's nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-30
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> hi
<Scary_Guy> hi
<cmaloney> hi
<Scary_Guy> How goes?
<cmaloney> It goes.
<Scary_Guy> Same
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HADz7BMJ1aY FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS
<jrwren> window closed based on title alone :)
<Scary_Guy> Yeah, don't worry, you didn't miss anything.
<jrwren> there is some truth to "death of desktop" but it isn't the truth that the phrase means at face value.
<greg-g> I don't have a desktop anymore
<greg-g> but I do have a NAS...
<greg-g> I kinda want one of the intel NUCs, but I'm weird
<jrwren> laptop is the new desktop. :)
<Scary_Guy> Laptop is poor ergonomics and back problems.
<Scary_Guy> Maybe if you hook an external keyboard/monitor to it, but they already have devices for that.  What were they called again?
<greg-g> oh yeah, my laptop gets plugged into a 24" monitor, kinesis keyboard, and vertical mouse on my adjustable standing desk (which I mostly sit at now :( )
<Scary_Guy> So it might as well be a desktop with inferior cooling.
<greg-g> but I can unplug and go to coffee shop or work trips without worrying about syncing files/configs/etc
<Scary_Guy> That's the other thing, I can at least service my machine and replace parts.  Laptops are a pain to work on.
<Scary_Guy> True, though I thought that's what the NAS would be used for.
<jrwren> pros and cons of each, I suppose.
<jrwren> when i read "death of desktop" I don't think about laptops. I consider laptops as desktops. I think about phones & tablets replacing traditional desktop/laptop OS functions.
<greg-g> really, that's what my puppetization is for, ensuring the config would be the same (theoretically that's true with my old x201s, but I haven't booted that thing in ages)
<Scary_Guy> They need to make those SSD cards in a cartridge format so I can just move it from one to the other.
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, I was wondering if that's also part of it. I knew people in 2010ish who truly believed laptops were over
<greg-g> (they were apple fanbois/gals who as soon as the ipad came out where saying everything else is worthless)
<jrwren> greg-g: every year I see more and more, who WANT to replace shit with their ipad. for me, an ipad is nearly useless. too much can't on it. I really prefer a fully functional limit-less computer, even if it is potentially less sexure.
<jrwren> secure.. wow...x is right next to c, lol.
<greg-g> less sexy and secure ;)
<jrwren> funny how we both point to ipad.
<greg-g> speaking of secure and iOS: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html
<greg-g> was just linked in our SRE backchannel :)
<jrwren> I KNOW! amazing right?!?
<jrwren> that one is so crazy.
<Scary_Guy> Freudian type :p
<Scary_Guy> Apple as if they weren't horrible already has gotten cheap.  Keeping the price high while cutting as many corners as possible was an awesome idea!
<Scary_Guy> Nice link though, shared to #2600 on ofdoom.org
<jrwren> has apple gotten cheap?
<jrwren> I thought it was more expensive than ever.
<jrwren> also, horrible compared to what?
<jrwren> apple is least horrible of the FAANG companies... well, maybe netflix isn't horrible :)
<jrwren> so... second least horrible.
<Scary_Guy> I mean in quality, not price
<Scary_Guy> Lots of bugs they should have beta tested away with limited first editions.
<Scary_Guy> I mean if you're going to charge an arm and a leg for your devices you should at least make sure they're rock solid before release.
<Scary_Guy> Then they act like it's YOUR problem and you are an asshole for bothering them in the first place.
<Scary_Guy> "Just buy a new one" rather than fix it, as if everyone has thousands extra in disposable income to throw down.
<jrwren> ugh, yup.
<jrwren> touchbar is the worst downgrade of general tech in a long time.
<cmaloney> ++
<mrgoodcat> what is faang?
<mrgoodcat> i think apple hardware is as premium as ever, with the exception of the keyboard which was a design flaw not a failure of material quality
<mrgoodcat> touchbar is a very poorly conceived idea
<mrgoodcat> hate mine
<mrgoodcat> i would be fine with it if it had a physical esc key similar to the power button
<mrgoodcat> but more key-like obviously
<jrwren> faang is facebook, apple, amazon, netflix, google.
<jrwren> the 5 biggest tech growth companies.
<mrgoodcat> got it
<mrgoodcat> not hard to be the least horrible in that crowd
<Scary_Guy> There were some overheating issues too on one of the Macbooks IIRC.  Planned obsolescence is one thing, designed to fail is another entirely which is almost what it seems like it was made to do.
<Scary_Guy> There was a great youtube video on it, though Apple probably copystriked them down.  I'll see if I can dig it up.
<jrwren> the MBP i9 cpu overheating issue was fixed with a firmware update.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mcpslGcRdE not it but funny
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgeh7ZJRhZU this was it.  But yeah new firmware can fix it!
<mrgoodcat> i doubt apple would design their laptops specifically to fail on day 1
<mrgoodcat> which is what this was
<mrgoodcat> thats some serious tinfoil hat if you think the highest end laptop was designed specifically to slow itself down for..... some reason?
<mrgoodcat> to get you to return it and buy another, cheaper one?
<Scary_Guy> another cheaply made one*
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-01
<jrwren> howdy y'all. I don't know how many of ya get over to The Henry Ford museum. I hadn't been in over 2yrs. Turns out 2yrs ago just months after my last time there a new installation went in called Mathematica. It is an exhibit from 1960s about math. It is totally sweet. I highly recommend.
<jrwren> I wish I'd had seen it when I was in high school.
<_stink_> nice!
<cmaloney> Oh wow.
<cmaloney> Thanks. I'll have to check it out
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-24
<jrwren> anyone have issues with python/requests... actually all of ubuntu... not supporting LetsEncrypt root certs?  python/requests/curl fails for me, but on my mac the same root cert works.
<jrwren> I get * TLSv1.2 (OUT), TLS alert, handshake failure (552):
<jrwren> * error:1414D172:SSL routines:tls12_check_peer_sigalg:wrong signature type
<cmaloney> Which version of python / requests?
<jrwren> python 3.8, not sure about requests.
<jrwren> but it seems to be system wide as curl is also effected.
<jrwren> can anyone compare this file on tehir system?
<jrwren> 2a02:840:1:1:1::1
<jrwren>  200348 Jun  3 22:15 /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
<jrwren> gah, I thought maybe it was ipv6, but no, evne on ipv4 same error.
<jrwren> my only guess is ca-certifactes.crt is no good.
<jrwren> ca-certificates is already the newest version (20190110ubuntu1.1).
<jrwren> that does seem too old.
<jrwren> hrm... or not... despite the version it is from June of 2020
<cmaloney> Does it work on other sites?
<jrwren> yes
<jrwren> i'm thinking it is this, but the fix didn't work for me.
<jrwren> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=900984
<jrwren> yeah, adding --ciphers DEFAULT@SECLEVEL=1  to the curl command makes it pass, but I've no idea how to set default openssl client ciphers
<jrwren> well, curl is excellent, so ciphers = in ~/.curlrc works great, but that doesn't fix requests.
<jrwren> https://github.com/psf/requests/issues/4775
<jrwren> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1233186/ubuntu-20-04-how-to-set-lower-ssl-security-level  WINS
<jrwren> well that was really interesting
<cmaloney> Wow, that's fun. :)
<jrwren> it really was. I'm glad I solved it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-25
<cmaloney> morning, campers
<_stink_> hi
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<_stink_> not a disaster
<_stink_> *yet*
<_stink_> </ominous music>
<cmaloney> Heh
<_stink_> lesson learned yesterday: don't return from a week vacation and ask your california-based coworkers "was anything on fire" last week
<_stink_> :/
<cmaloney> _stink_: Yeah...
<_stink_> and maybe just dno't use that phrase anymore.
<jrwren> OUCH
<greg-g> yeah....
<greg-g> "everything"
<_stink_> :(
<greg-g> air quality is much better here today than this past week, at least
<greg-g> see last 3 photos here: https://www.instagram.com/greggrossmeier/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-27
<jrwren> TIL: BIND moved to using libuv and thar be sucirty issu https://kb.isc.org/v1/docs/cve-2020-8620
<cmaloney> Well that's fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-30
<cmaloney> That's no fun
<greg-g> Was it a Netflix issue or AWS?
<cmaloney> "CenturyLink outage takes down Amazon, Hulu, Playstation Network, etc for many users"
<cmaloney> (posted in another channel via 9to5 mac, but the link was via Google AMP so you get the title)
<greg-g> heh, that's all I would do too (not click the amp link)
<greg-g> but thanks!
<greg-g> you know, the term "the web" is now a misnomer :(
<greg-g> (yes, this is just another "boy would decentralization be great again" rant/thought)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not liking the direction things are going with the web and things like AMP
<cmaloney> But I also acknowledge that I'm probably sounding like those old "timesharing" folks that the PC folks scoffed at
<cmaloney> So I take it in stride, and continue to work behind the scenes to ensure that we have something decentralized to fall back on
<cmaloney> as opposed to Google's version of WAP (the Palm Pilot protocol, not the encryption or whatever that song is)
<Scary_Guy> lol WAP.  No matter what gets named that it sucks apparently
<cmaloney> I can't speak to the music itself, as I'm not the target audience for it
<Scary_Guy> I mean yes art is subjective... I guess...
