#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-13
<hads> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/715056
<chilts> dovecot overwrote your postfix.cf???
<hads> Yeah, only if you're using dovecot-postfix though
<chilts> ah, ok
<hads> It eases setting up single sign on between postfix SASL and dovecot
<chilts> hmm, etckeeper ... I must look that up
<ibeardslee> chilts: it gets used on some servers here
<ibeardslee> the ones that aren't puppetised
<chilts> yeah, it seems it might be quite interesting ... I should try puppet again though, it annoyed me last time I tried it :)
<ajmitch> having your config be changed from a security update would be a bit worrying
<hads> Indeed.
<hads> Wasn't super impressed.
<ajmitch> backups are great, but having things break while you rush around in a panic trying to restore configs isn't :)
<hads> Yeah, thankfully it didn't actually stop mail working for me, I see from the bug it has for others.
<hads> I just was confused as to why I started getting more spam again.
<ajmitch> so is the security update itself still there?
 * ajmitch is using dovecot+exim, so wasn't bitten by this
<hads> I believe so yes.
<hads> Fix is in proposed, to be released on the 16th
<chilts> who uses what to store passwords (encrypted)? plain GPG? something on top of that?
 * chilts is looking for a solution to his password problem, but only wishes the solution was OpenID :)
<chilts> oh, a command line client wins as far as I'm concerned
<ibeardslee> chilts: looking for something solid myself .. pref with an android client that can be syncd in some way
<mwhudson> chilts, fmarier: still on for the quiz tomorrow?
 * chilts is 
<chilts> ibeardslee: I'm less worried about Android, but just something nice
<fmarier> mwhudson: yup
<mwhudson> cool
<fmarier> we're gonna kick arse
<mwhudson> heh
<mwhudson> did you set the questions or something? :)
<ibeardslee> your own?
<fmarier> no, i'm just trying to convince myself and build up some confidence :)
<chilts> this would be ideal -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/54c218.txt
<chilts> or something along those lines
<chilts> I might have to make one I guess
<chilts> there must be _something_ that already does this ... am looking through a load of packages to see what they do
<fmarier> chilts: i use pwsafe and it does exactly that
<fmarier> however it has just been removed from Debian, so i need to find a new one
<chilts> ah right
<fmarier> on my list of packages to have a look at: revelation, yapet, mypasswordsafe, pwman3, zsafe and keysafe
<chilts> what I also want is something which saves each password (site) in a different file, then I can check them in to git and push to a couple of repos (for safekeeping)
<fmarier> let me know if you find a good one
<chilts> will do
<fmarier> ah, then you might have to write your own, i'm not aware of a git-based one
<chilts> I'll look at those first too ... keepassx doesn't seems to be what I want either
<chilts> well, not git based, just so I can put things into git
<chilts> that's all
<ibeardslee> pview?
<chilts> ie. it does things on files in the cwd, rather than in some hidden file in ~/
<chilts> ibeardslee: isn't that a Catalyst thing?
<fmarier> pwsafe was just one file. i rsync it with s3 everyday
<chilts> yeah, that sounds like a decent idea
<ibeardslee> chilts: might be
<chilts> and it encryped with GPG?
<ibeardslee> `apt-cache search pview` isn't useful
<ojwb> matches "MapViewOfFile" - helpful
<chilts> first version -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/59248b
<chilts> text version -> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/59248b.txt
<chilts> it obviously doesn't do anything yet, but any comments about the interface are appreciated! :)
<chilts> it will find and save all files in the local dir ... people can back it up however they like then (git, S3, rsync, unison, etc)
<chilts> cool, Crypt::GPG will come in handy
<chilts> ok, I have it encrypting some text, now to make it a file
<chilts> well, it's _saving_ a file, but I want to read from a new file made by $EDITOR
<chilts> File::Temp wins, so does File::Slurp :)
<chilts> nice ... "./pwkeeper show linkedin" now shows the contents of linkedin.gpg (after prompting for your passphrase and echoing it as *s) :D
<chilts> am now on the way to the program I want :D
<chilts> I should get back to work
<ibeardslee> fark they are rockin down chch way
<ojwb> yeah, 5.5 and 6.0 in one day
<Atamira> a friends just got his power back on (friend in chch)
<fmarier> chilts: let me know once you've put your pwkeeper somewhere. it seems to be far better than everything else that's in Debian unfortunately
<fmarier> one thing that might be nice however would be to hash the filenames for the password places
<fmarier> otherwise it reveals what accounts you have
<fmarier> so i guess you'd need a hash of the site + the master password or something like that
<Bacta> Hai all
<snail> mÅrena all
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> Mornin
<chilts> fmarier: yeah, good idea ... but how would you know which file each password is in?
<chilts> I mean, so far my plan is to have a file/account, but maybe your 1-file thing works better
<chilts> oopse
<chilts> morning
 * chilts slaps wrist
<ajmitch> chilts: how could you?
<chilts> sorry, my bad
 * ajmitch watches the load average slowly climb
<ajmitch> iotop can be a useful tool at times
<chilts> fmarier: so you mean something like md5sum('site' + 'password')?
<chilts> I wasn't going to have a master password, just your GPG one
<chilts> maybe a file called 'sites.gpg' will hold the definitive list ... yeah, I like that idea
 * chilts completes 'pwkeeper list', 'pwkeeper new' and 'pwkeeper show' :)
<chilts> it's all working ... just lots more to do
<ajmitch> so how different is this from keepass?
<chilts> encryption is GPG, not AES or Twofish
<chilts> there isn't a single database, it's all in different files
<chilts> it's not cross platform - well, it's command line based for a start :)
<chilts> it's just an idea that sprouted yesterday and seems to be growing on me, 'tis all
<chilts> a personal itch as it were
<snail> chilts: encryption is not GPG; GPG is a framework into which encryption algorithms like AES and Twofish fit.
<chilts> yeah, fair enough
<chilts> I forgot about that :)
<chilts> it's one of those wonderful things about not worrying about details since something else takes care of it for me :D
<Atamira> morning all
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-14
<fmarier> ajmitch: keepassx is graphical, pwkeeper isn't (so it works when you ssh into your box)
<ojwb> keep ass x?
<mwhudson> morning
<ojwb> sorry, I meant morning
<mwhudson> fmarier: do you know what time the doors open for the quiz tonight?
<fmarier> mwhudson: not sure, the quiz starts at 6pm. at what time were you thinking of coming?
<mwhudson> dunno, they are working on the power here from 5:30
<mwhudson> so i need to be out of here a bit before that i guess
<mwhudson> i'm happy to sit in a bar or a cafe for a bit but if people are going to be milling around from a bit earlier than 6, i thought i might as well join them
<chilts> I was gonna get there a little earlier, but gotta head to a shop or two first
<fmarier> there should be a few people there 10 minutes before 6 or so, I'd say
<mwhudson> ok
<snail> BTW: if anyone ever needs anything like archivists toolkit, use archivists toolkit. it's what it says on the tin and it's made of awesome
<ajmitch> snail: but what is it? :)
<chilts> yeah, I was wondering the same :)
<snail> it's a toolkit for archivists.
<chilts> ah, gotchyer
<chilts> now I get it :D
<ajmitch> can't say I'm familiar with what archivists require
<chilts> toolkits I think
<snail> the relavent TLAs are XML, LOC, EAD and EAC (plus mysql, java, jdbc)
<snail> ajmitch: you don't want to know what they require, believe me,. what you want to know is how to satisfy them...
<chilts> that's a different story though
<chilts> nsfw etc
<chilts> :-p
<ajmitch> we won't go there
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
 * ajmitch wishes he had more RAM in this desktop
<ajmitch> seeing 0k swap free worries me a little :)
<ibeardslee> ouch
<ajmitch> it's mostly because I've got windows 7 & a couple of debian VMs running in virtualbox
<ibeardslee> just increase your windows swap file
<ibeardslee> .. or buy more ram
<ajmitch> windows 7 is in virtualbox
<ibeardslee> ahh
<ajmitch> & this computer has 8GB of RAM :)
<ajmitch> I'm not going to run windows as my main desktop, I just use it for testing stuff
 * ajmitch should see if virtualbox 4.0.x is in a PPA for lucid
<ibeardslee> it is
<ibeardslee> or at least in the oracle repo
<ibeardslee> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads
<ajmitch> right, I'll probably use the one from debfx's PPA, since he's the debian/ubuntu maintainer
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> how did the quiz go?
<chilts> ibeardslee: it went well, very well :)
<chilts> quite a fun evening, pretty funny at times
<chilts> donovan did a great job with the questions
<hads> Yay, inbox zero for a few moments
<hads> Morning
<ibeardslee> I have on odd occasions had a zero inbox .. but then I start the mail server and that changes
<chilts> doesn't your mail server always run?
<ibeardslee> on odd occasions it has stopped
<chilts> crazy
<chilts> ok, chatting in another channel about articles and books, for example "Rebel Code", "Just for Fun: The Story of an Accidental Revolutionary", "In the beggining was the command line" ... anyone got any other good/interesting/classic FOSS articles/books?
<chilts> "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"
<chilts> etc
<ajmitch> the GNU manifesto?
<chilts> is it somewhere on here? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
<ajmitch> http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html
<chilts> heh, just found it ... thanks :)
<chilts> cool, excellent ... was just chatting about all these things, so I think a blog post is breweing :)
<chilts> must be something on here too -> http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/
<chilts> ooh, "The Mythical Man Month", though that's not really open source
<ajmitch> esr is such an interesting figure
<chilts> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/index.html <- I guess that would be included in such a list
<elky> ajmitch, whereby interesting you mean "omg omg, where is the industrial strength brain bleach"?
<ajmitch> elky: pretty much :)
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-15
<snail> on ubuntu, what's the best way to find out (a) all the subdomains of a domain and (b) all of the names being mapped to an ip address?
<snail> ideally without a ping-storm...
<mwhudson> host -t axfr $domain?
<mwhudson> lots of servers refuse to give you that though
<ojwb> in general, it's not easy to do either AFAIK
<snail> nice. my dns for freenode has been flaky, I file a bug and get told "No changes have been made but the firewall has a problem with looking up  irc.freenode.net at the moment so I've added all individual IP  addresses to the rule allowing xchat" i don't want to know how they're messing with dns that's breaking dns pooling, but hardcoding them doesn't seem like the right approach...
<ojwb> hmm, it's not a great plan
<ojwb> someone needs to remember to remove the hack or else they'll be returning the wrong answers when freenode dns changes
<ojwb> unless they firewall DNS traffic, you could just stick "nameserver 8.8.8.8" and "nameserver 8.8.4.4" in /etc/resolv.conf
<ojwb> those are google's public dns servers
<ojwb> downside is you're giving google data, which some may not like
<mwhudson> doesn't that make CDNs rather less useful too?
<mwhudson> oh, they're anycast
<snail> ojwb: i would try that, but opting out of our organisational infrastructure just means that i discover the problems for the first time on one of my users computers...
<mwhudson> although ping is 171ms so they can't be that close
<ojwb> mwhudson: yeah, they're mostly handy to know for when you have problems getting the local DNS to work
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: you either get into work far too early, or are on irc from home
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: at work
<ibeardslee> travel time is easier earlier
<ajmitch> very true
<ibeardslee> less time sitting in a bus or the car
<ajmitch> partly why I'm in at work before 8 most days
<ajmitch> being in a crowded bus isn't fun
<ibeardslee> even if it is harder to get up earlier
<ibeardslee> it does mean that I can also get away earlier .. but I think I need more practise at that
 * ajmitch is usually awake more than early enough
<ajmitch> I'm often away just after 5, which is nice
<ibeardslee> I've deliberately arranged the personal trainer sessions at the gym for 5pm
 * ajmitch can get stuff done early in the morning before those pesky clients start calling
<ibeardslee> so I HAVE to get away earlier
<ibeardslee> but the days I don't have the sessions I get carried away
<ajmitch> staying until 6 or 7?
<ibeardslee> hardly ever 7, sometimes 6, often after 5
<ajmitch> darn, looks like air new zealand has been cancelling flights for the lower south island
<ibeardslee> 7:30 -> 5pm = 9.5 hours - 1/2 for lunch .. I really should timesheet a bit more time
<ajmitch> makes for a long day at times :)
<snail> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> so the big news of the day is MS withdrawing their XML document patent in NZ
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> was this a patent that had not yet been granted?
<ibeardslee> they were filed and the NZOSS had opposed the first one and it seems were preparing to oppose the 2nd
<ibeardslee> no had opposed, and were heading towards a hearing
<ajmitch> I wonder what prompted the withdrawal
<ibeardslee> nto sure of the exact details, but NZOSS and others (especially Matthew Holloway) must have had some clear objections
<snail> ajmitch: as i understand it, a withdrawl is infinitely better than a negative ruling, since rulings join the body of case law
<ajmitch> snail: right, I'm unfamiliar with how legal precedents should work in NZ :)
<chilts> morning
<Atamira> moring
<Atamira> morning
<thumper> morning
 * thumper needs coffee
 * Atamira needs breakfast
 * ibeardslee needs a whisky and a lie down
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-16
 * chilts need lunch
 * chilts use primitive language
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> mÅrena
<chilts> morning
<chilts> I guess people saw this already -> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac
<chilts> funsies for a friday
<Atamira> morning
<hads> Oooh ouch, deleting /usr
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> Morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> such a simple bug there...
<hads> I wish something would stop generating /etc/motd.tail
<hads> Removing them all for third time annoyed me enough to go and look for a bug. 659738 - looks like it's in proposed finally.
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-17
<ojwb> chilts: are you aware of S5: http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/
<ibeardslee> hads: that's a yay
<chilts> ojwb: yeah, saw that a while ago ... this was just a little play thing and thought I'd throw it out there if people wanted to use it
<chilts> after the conversation last month or so about the different ways of doing slides
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-18
<chilts> morning
 * chilts creates confusion
<Atamira> afternoon
 * Atamira creates more confusion
#ubuntu-nz 2011-06-19
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> I have the feeling I'm not going to complete the day at work :(
<snail> mÅrena
<Atamira> good morning all
<chilts> ibeardslee: s'up? you feeling ok?
<ibeardslee> feeling icky
<ibeardslee> throat, nose etc
<chilts> sucks :(
<Atamira> whats that stuff they advertising atm?
<Atamira> codral?
<Atamira> suppose to make you look and feel normal
<Atamira> even tho you sick as a dog
<thumper> morning
<ibeardslee> ohh if it can make me look normal .. it could be a winner
<chilts> is that with or without a cold? :-p
<ibeardslee> shush
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-11
<ojwb> "report bug" led me to a pile of wiki pages telling me stuff about reporting bugs which I didn't really want to be told
<lifeless> ah yes
<lifeless> this is our 'only folk with the magic key can report bugs' feature.
<ajmitch> yeah, the suggested way is to use ubuntu-bug
<lifeless> </me waxes lyrical>
<lifeless> [its not a feature]
<ojwb> ftr, passing -oAPT::Immediate-Configure=off  to apt-get seemed to make it work
<ajmitch> oh, one of those nasty bugs
<ojwb> i poked it for a bit and then it moaned about python2.7-minimal and pointed me to that section of man 5 apt.conf
<ajmitch> something like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-defaults/+bug/990740 ?
<ojwb> lifeless: I can see that it's good to make sure people are clued up a bit before filing a bug
<lifeless> ojwb: nah, thats the story.
<lifeless> ojwb: the reality is that we should be pointing folk at a forums/stackexchange /style/ site.
<ojwb> don't point me there!
<lifeless> ojwb: and have folk who have demonstrated cred there have a push-button converter to escalate a thread/post into a defect report.
<lifeless> seamlessly.
<ajmitch> apport does point people to askubuntu.com, askubuntu people point bug reports back to LP
<ajmitch> noone really wants to handle those reports that just don't have enough info
<lifeless> That would let J Random file a 'bug', have it get peer-nondev support and peer-dev support, and become a bug in the developers workflow, without the current piss-off-hurdles.
<lifeless> ajmitch: the problem is that apport only gathers useful data in a small % of cases anyhow.
<ojwb> ajmitch: yes, that looks like it
<ojwb> I ended up upgrading with dist-upgrade, but only because do-release-upgrade gave up...
<ojwb> btw, is there a way to make do-release-upgrade less needy for user input
<ojwb> ?
<ajmitch> debconf questions, or conffile prompts?
<ojwb> kind of annoying that I have to use it and can't make it just get on with it, which I could if I could use dist-upgrade
<ojwb> stuff like "I'm going to remove these packages"
<ojwb> and "I've disabled your unofficial repos"
<lifeless> do-release-upgrade -y ?
<lifeless> (I'm guessing, it may not exist)
<ajmitch> it only has -q, no -y in --help
<ojwb> indeed
<ojwb> -q doesn't do much at all
<ojwb> and is only listed in --help, not the man page
<ojwb> and --help doesn't say what it does
<ojwb> though --quiet is a strong hint
<ojwb> do-release-upgrade: error: no such option: -y
<ojwb> i set the debconf priority to critical, so it isn't that
<ojwb> a few of the questions are about conf files, so those are fair enough
<ojwb> though I should find a way to make it pick the right answer automatically really
<ojwb> but those certainly aren't do-release-upgrade's fault
 * ajmitch needs to grab lunch, pity it requires going outside into the cold
<mwhudson> ahh, i haven't had to deal with debconf lately
<mwhudson> just another reason to be happy
<ojwb> it does at least allow you to address these issues
 * ojwb adds a comment to the existing bug about the level of interactivity during upgrades
<mwhudson> i was thinking more from the packager side
<ojwb> dunno, seems better than having to write the code to ask such questions yourself
<chilts> so in theory, we should be able to directly upgrade LTS to LTS (once 12.04.1 comes along)?
<chilts> I never knew that, always thought you had to upgrade each to the next
<ajmitch> chilts: yes, it's always been that way with LTS releases (in theory)
<chilts> righto, cool ... in which case, I may just upgrade this machine instead of re-installing (which is what I usually do)
 * ajmitch tends to never reinstall
<mwhudson> i managed to reinstall 32 bit rather than 64 bit last time :)
<mwhudson> well, the time before last
<mwhudson> the message you get when you run a amd64 binary on a 32 bit install is pretty odd
<ajmitch> not entirely obvious?
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> how is that zatab going?
<ajmitch> still using android on it, feels a little slow at times
<ibeardslee> only a singe core isn't it?
<chilts> morning
<thomi> Morning all
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: yeah, and you notice it at times :)
<ibeardslee> I wonder with the number of cheap tablets about they are being shortsighted doing a single core
<mwhudson> morning
<thumper> morning
<ojwb> morning
<snail> people may (or may not) be interested in this role at the national library http://www.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=106832&CoId=164&rq=2
<kcj> Morning.
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-12
 * ojwb wonders why precise seems to sulk during boot if the network drivers don't get loaded
<ojwb> "Waiting for network configuration..."
<ojwb> it'll be a long wait...
<ojwb> after a while it decides to only wait another 60 seconds
<ojwb> ah, seems to be an entry in /etc/fstab that isn't liked by precise
<ojwb> ok, that sort of helped, but now it is coming up at eth2
<ajmitch> does /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules exist?
<ojwb> aha
<ojwb> now I know where to stab it
<ojwb> thanks
<ojwb> hurray!
<ajmitch> it works now?
<ojwb> yes
<chilts> ojwb: so did you just delete that file to stop it happening? or something else?
<ojwb> i nuked the entries in it for eth0 and eth1 and changed eth2 to eth0
<ojwb> probably could have removed it and let udev recreate it I guess
<hads> Yeah, if you delete that file it will be recreated automatically and start from eth0 again.
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> ojwb: Is that from an upgraded motherboard/network card?
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> anyone having updates go bad today?
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: explain what you mean by go bad, please :)
<ibeardslee> Segmentation fault  (core dumped)
<ibeardslee> if I remove 'http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu precise partner' from my sources it goes through ok
<mwhudson> morning
<Atamira> morning
<snail> anyone know any local gnome developers?
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: segfault in apt-get?
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: yes
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: exciting
<ajmitch> a bit odd, as there don't look to have been any apt-related updates recently
<ajmitch> & it shouldn't fail that hard on a corrupted file
<lifeless> snail: FSVOLocal.
<snail> lifeless: i'm looking to fix some old xpointer bugs in libxml2 and i was wondering whether there's a good description for an optimal debugging environment for modern gnome stuff
<lifeless> uh, libxml2 is barely gnome :)
<lifeless> apt-get build-dep libxml2
<lifeless> and you should be good to go
<ojwb> morning
<ojwb> ibeardslee: no, it's a virtual machine, but upgrading from lucid to precise seems to have caused virt-manager to forget its virtuals so I had to reimport them all
<ojwb> and it seems the XML description was wrong or old or something
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> morning
<thomi> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> morena
<Atamira> darn cold today...4.5 degrees in auckland
<mwhudson> morning
<Atamira> restart
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
<thumper> high of 8 in Dunners
<thumper> expecting snow
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> so a list dusting on the hills, and wet everywhere else
 * ajmitch needs coffee
<ajmitch> s/list/light/
<Atamira> why is it colder in auckland than dunedin?
<Atamira> stupid weather
<ajmitch> because dunedin is just better?
<Atamira> just find it odd is all. dunedin is closer to the sth pole. its expecting snow
<Atamira> we dont get snow in akld...
<ajmitch> we don't usually get much snow in dunedin :)
<Atamira> we dont get any
<Atamira> wonder how colds its been in akld before
<mwhudson> all time record for wellington is -1.9 according to wikipedia
<Atamira> it was 4.5 degrees this morning
<Atamira> whats the record for auckland?
<ajmitch> currently 3.3 in dunedin
<Atamira> wow..-.6
<ajmitch> not really that cold...
<Atamira> considering other places
<Atamira> no its not
<Atamira> took me 4 years to become cold in nsw, australia
<Atamira> im used to run away in summer clothing
<Atamira> run around *
<ajmitch> some places in NSW certainly get cold :)
<Atamira> true. and it did in NSW ..eventually when i was there
<ajmitch> record low for canberra, -10
<Atamira> yeah, its really cold there
<ajmitch> it was -7 once when I visited
<Atamira> which is again, odd
<Atamira> but then they have that mountain near them
<mwhudson> long way from the sea, too
<mwhudson> i was wondering the other day what fraction of nz's population lives more than say 20kms from the sea
<mwhudson> can't be very high
<snail> mwhudson: all of hamilton
<kcj> Morning.
<snail> mwhudson: the interesting question is what fraction of nz's population lives more than say 20kms from navigable water
<snail> mwhudson: hamilton is at the extreme inland end of navigable water on the waikato
<mwhudson> snail: well yes hamilton but no other major centre, also taupo rotorua palmy
<snail> mwhudson: of those all but palmy are on lakes big enough for water transport to be useful
<Atamira> actually, doesnt hamilton have the waikato river near it?
<mwhudson> snail: which is my theory as to why palmy is so terrible :-)
<mwhudson> but i was still thinking about the sea
<mwhudson> (and on 3g and i suspect lagging badly)
<Atamira> well im off to sleep. have a good day all
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-14
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-16
<kcj> Morning.
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-06-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> mÅrena koutou
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> evening :)
<thumper> morning
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-10
<olly_> morning
<mwhudson> hads: that's even more expensive than the telyhd :)
<mwhudson> but yeah, it's not a super crazy idea
<G> fwiw, I think some of the older smarter TVs can do it too
<G> our Sony Bravia TV (now 2 - i think - iterations old) has a Skype app, iirc you could purchase a camera attachment for it
<G> yeah, $150 add-on device
<G> mwhudson: possible: Logitech TV Cam HD (noticed it mentioned on the xbox forums of all places)
<mwhudson> yeah, that's in the skype store too
<mwhudson> it's only a little cheaper
<G> yeah, 200 according to priceme it seems
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<G> morning
<olly_> morning
<thumper> morning
<hads> morn
<chilts_> morning
<G> hads: hey who do you get to make your PCBs?  (Also what do you design them with?)
<G> I need to make two Arduino Mega shields, but the free Eagle doesn't work with Arduino Megas due to the size
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-11
<hads> G: Hi, I use hackvana, there's a #hackvana channel
<hads> Mitch, the guy that runs it is an aussie in China.
<hads> I also currently use Eagle which I don't really like but haven't had time to learn an open source alternative.
<G> hads: oh nice, thanks
<G> hads: oh wow, reading his FAQ/Guide, sounds like exactly what I'll need
<hads> Yeah it's a really great service. There's no automated ordering at the moment but he's super easy to deal with and has very flexible options.
<hads> <5x5cm and <10x10cm boards are a special price, US$20 and US$30 for 10 units I think.
<G> yeah sounds great, now I just need to think up my solution to my 3-pin header issues
<G> current thought is getting some lengths of ribbon cable, and some of the connectors that sparkfun are advertising and build my own
<hads> I can help with that :)
<G> hads: yep :)   basically need to connect some hall sensors from up to 50cm away, so the thought is, get some 6 wire ribbon cable, split it into two, and use something like PRT-08096/PRT-08232 to terminate the cable to the PCB
<hads> Yeah that's what I was going to suggest as a connector option. I think we stock those.
<G> the question becomes though, what is the best way to hook up the sensors to the ribbon wire, or just solder them directly on w/ a bit of heatsink as insulation of the pins
<hads> Freetronics do a PCB mounted one if you want to go that route. Otherwise I'd just solder them directly as you said.
<G> yeah, I already have the hall sensors, so yeah, sounds best
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
<chilts> thumper: how much are you using Go these days? like 100%? You enjoying it?
 * chilts is going to play with either Go (again) or Rust
<thumper> chilts: mostly 100% for work
<thumper> still using python after hours :)
<chilts> I feel they're quite similar
<chilts> cool, nice to have two main languages to play with
<thumper> parts of go are growing on me
<thumper> it does have some cool bits
<chilts> I'm mostly doing JavaScript these days, and _way_ less Perl, so I think I need another language to futz around on
<thumper> oh, yeah, javascript too these days
<chilts> yeah, I love the messaging
<thumper> I'm doing web dev in the evenings
<chilts> nice
<thumper> jquery, backbone etc
<chilts> cool, I still haven't used Backbone or Ember, but I wanna play with Angular too
<chilts> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/06/11/stopwatching-us-mozilla-launches-massive-campaign-on-digital-surveillance/
<chilts> awesome -> http://fr.slideshare.net/EmilandDC/dear-nsa-let-me-take-care-ou
<G> morning
<hads> morning
<G> hads: hey quick question, is there any template in particular you work off for Arduino boards (for the pin placements)
<olly_> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<hads> G: Sorry, busy distracted.
<G> hads: no problem
<hads> You mean in Eagle?
<G> hads: or anything, the Sparkfun/Adafruit libraries contain ones, but the templated shields actually look too big
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-12
<hads> G: I think I've tried the Adafruit one before and it was an okay size? The SparkFUn one is the one they use so should be the right size. Are you talking about normal or Mega sized (I've not used mega)?
<G> hads: I'm actually trying with the Uno ones - with a MCP3008 to provide the extra analogues that I need
<G> hads: if you give me a few, I'll check which one I'm currently using
<hads> Sure
<G> hads: I'm using the Adafruit R3 one
<G> hads: I was reading that there was something funky about the Sparkfun one
 * G looks up the article
<G> oh hmmm, it's the mega one that was problematic - http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php/topic,156628.0.html  I'll try their Uno one
<hads> I have a part based on the Adafruit r3 one, it's 66x53 which looks about right.
<G> hads: hmmm, which package?  I've used ARDUINOR3, which extends over the USB/power
<G> sounds like I'll need to take another close look
<hads> Stupid full size USB. A lot of shields do extend over that. You might need a custom part to shorten it up a bit. I can help with that if you want.
<hads> It's not normally an issue, unless you have through hole parts over the USB connector then it should clear the USB and DC jack okay.
<hads> If you have through hole parts over the USB it will still stack but may short out.
<hads> Away for a bit, feel free to email me if you want too.
<hads> Anyone who's into electronics stuff I'm putting together an inaugural order with Pololu for this evening, if you want anything special let me know.
<ibeardslee> gah .. too many toys!
<G> hads: oh no, that's just given me another alternative
<G> hads: but they don't have anything I 'need' so pass :)
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> .win 34
<chilts> heh
<chilts> morning
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> chilts: back in NZ after being mozillaised?
<chilts> yeah, back here and recovered from a tiring week :)
<chilts> I think
<chilts> :D
<G> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-13
<hads> mw
<hads> D'oh.
<hads> Anyone have mwhudson's email. I found a Skype thingo for him.
<hads> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/tvcam-hd?crid=34 for $190 inc. GST if anyone sees him before me.
<G> hads: already pointed that one out to him (I noticed it for 200 though)
<hads> G: Oh cool
<hads> I just saw it come through on a suppliers promo email so thought I'd mention it.
<G> hads: except I think he passed over it because he was looking at it on the Skype site (which lists it for 300-400 bucks)
<G> so might be worth a reminder anyway
<G> hmmm 12 hours after unplugging my phone - 12% Batt Left :S
<hads> I'm not sure what happened yesterday but I went to bed at 1am and plugged my phone in and it said "Charged".
<G> fast charging battery eh?
<hads> It had been unplugged since 8am so I'm not sure how it managed to use no power for 17 hours.
<G> I think my problems are a combination of 4.2 update, and low signal area
<G> Wifi issues seem to be an AP compatibility thing but seems odd that no other device has issue with my main AP
<hads> Low signal screws battery life.
<hads> I haven't noticed any issues with 4.2 on my N4. Admitadly I haven't used my phone much today but I'm at 77% after 13h12m on battery.
<G> oh gosh, even when I go into town, I'm down to 80% within a couple of hours (where there shouldn't be signal issues)
<hads> I spend most of my day within wifi
<G> same, I by default have mobile data turned off
<hads> Just a few minutes ago bought another N4, small child dropped and smashed wifes Galaxy Nexus to bits.
<G> ouch
<hads> AU$350 from the Google Play store. I was trying it out to see if it worked without a proxy and interestingly it let me go right through and check out.
<G> even with a NZ shipping address?
<hads> Nah, used an AU address but a NZ VISA and IP.
<G> ahhh right
<hads> It didn't used to do that.
<G> if I get the the Nexus 4, I'll be diving into my stack of gift cards for Harvey Norman (2degrees sourced ones)
<hads> That's a good point. I could have used VISA points.
<hads> Right, now to discover what Miss1 pulled out of the TV to make it stop working. Kids huh.
<G> ouch, enjoy
<hads> Oh yay, that was easy, just powered the NUC back on and it worked. Must have needed a wee rest.
<hads> Something in there seems to get confused when kids press 101 buttons. I think it might be the HDMI switcher in the amp or somthing.
<G> overheated?
<hads> Nah definitly external influence.
<hads> I wasn't there but lots of fast input switching by the sounds of it :)
<G> ahhh right, bit disappointing by how warm the NUC can get at times, other than that, very nifty box
<G> even managed to do nested KVM with it the other day "Extra box to use for work by day, entertainment box for lunch & night"
<hads> Yeah it does get a little warm doesn't it, not too over the top though. This one is only used for XBMC so doesn't get a huge workout. Video playback seems quite easy for them.
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<hads> mwhudson: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/tvcam-hd?crid=34 I can get for $190 inc GST today
<hads> (Got a promo email from a distributor last night)
<mwhudson> hads: oh interesting
<mwhudson> hads: will check with the wife :)
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> (in a bit)
<hads> No worries. I dont know anything about it but saw it and thought you might want to know.
<Atamira> morning
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<G> hads: ha, Ascent has a 1-day deal at $173 for that Logitech camera
<G> mwhudson: it seems hads' distributor aren't the only ones with it cheap Ascent put out a tweet an hour or so ago
<G> mwhudson: https://twitter.com/ascentnz/status/345301198049517569
<hads> That's a better deal. It will be coming from the same distributor.
<hads> Probably better pricing tier, only signed up with that distributor a few weeks back.
<ojwb> morning
<G> hmmm yeah, morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-15
<G> afternoon.   So, we were discussing ZaReason the other week/month and what happened, seems it is still chugging along per:  https://twitter.com/ZaReasonNZ/status/345762136397578240
<olly_> G: yeah, i bought a desktop off them a few months ago
<G> yeah, their radio silence at the time seemed odd, nice to see that they seem to have broken it :)
<hads> Needs more.
#ubuntu-nz 2013-06-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<hads> morning
<G> morning
<olly_> morning
<chilts> morning
<hads> Does anyone know how to stop nautilus doing some sort of find when you type into a browser window? I liked the old "select a file in the current directory" approach.
<hads> Bugger; http://askubuntu.com/questions/289351/nautilus-3-6-look-for-filenames-in-current-directory-before-general-search
<hads> I think the answer is thunar.
<hads> Oh, nemo, a fork of nautilus 3.4
<ojwb> hads: you're finding nemo?
#ubuntu-nz 2014-06-09
<G> olly: if they look like the guys that wear rubber suits and that, you should be good, they are the same guys that climb up the 220kV transmission lines and work on them while they are live ;)
<G> (we had one of the transpower live wire crews on our property last week replacing insulators on the Marsden-Auckland transmission line, the work with basically everything but the wires they are working with at the time live
<olly> they have high vis vests, so she'll be right
<ibeardslee> jandals and high vis vests?
<olly> i suspect it'll be gumboots, but i didn't go close enough to check
<G> anyway, don't half the poles have [room for] two shelves so they semi-warm transfer transformers from memory?  Unless they short that thing, you shouldn't even notice it, not like far north where they had to wait like 2-3 days for a replacement transformer :)
<olly> G: i kind of assumed it was new - there's some land over the road that's being turned into new sections
<olly> so far the power's stayed on though
<G> olly: oh, if it's for a subdivision, you won't notice it, they just need to put a transformer to keep the voltage constant for the subdivision lines
<G> olly: our neighbours had to get a transformer put it at the end of their 250m+ undergrounded line for power stability cost them a fortune, but it was the only way they could get power supplied
<G> olly: iirc from when they hooked up that, they just get a live wire crew in to do the final hook-up
<hads> Last I checked with my sparky getting a 240v transformer feed put in off the lines is a minimum $7500, normally $10k for a straight forward job.
<G> yeah, not surprised
<mwhudson> morning
 * mwhudson is cloning from github at 1MB/s over 3g, kinda impressed
<chilts> morning
<olly> morning
<chilts> mwhudson: I used a 2degrees Huawai modem as my main home connection for about 2 years, it was pretty decent
<chilts> speed was good, of course data was expensive, so that stopped me doing some things (e.g. cloud backups, photos, etc)
<mwhudson> yeah
<mwhudson> the only good thing about nz data is that because it's capped the telcos don't play silly buggers around tethering
#ubuntu-nz 2014-06-10
<ibeardslee> morning
<kcj[work]> Morning.
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-06-11
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-06-12
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-06-15
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-06-08
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-06-09
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-06-10
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<thumper> o/
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-06-11
<ibeardslee> morning
<atamira> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-06-14
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-06-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> Morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-06-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> Morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-06-19
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> hmm yeah morning
<mwhudson> apparently
<mwhudson> very dark earlier!
#ubuntu-nz 2017-06-13
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-06-14
<mwhudson> no
#ubuntu-nz 2018-06-13
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> oh hey morning
#ubuntu-nz 2019-06-11
<atamira> no one says hello anymore
<atamira> or good mornig
<atamira> or good afternoon
<atamira> good morning all . from a cloudy auckland
<mruffell> Hi atamira, from cloudy Christchurch
<atamira> morning mruffell
#ubuntu-nz 2019-06-13
<atamira> good afternoon all
