#ubuntu-ports 2005-12-07
<jbailey> fabbione: I've added biarch gdb for sparc and ppc to my "hope to do" list for dapper now.
<jbailey> Troubleshooting sparc64 TLS without gdb is pissing me off. =)
<fabbione> ehhe ok
#ubuntu-ports 2005-12-08
<jbailey> fabbione: There seems to be a success log for udev on sparc, but it's not in the archive.
#ubuntu-ports 2005-12-10
<fabbione> jbailey: did you try to boot your sparc again or did you declare it dead?
<jbailey> fabbione: I can boot it fine.  It just doesn't live through a gdb build.
<jbailey> And it hung on the loopback self-test.
<jbailey> fabbione: It's still sitting here plugged in, though.
<fabbione> hmmm
<fabbione> weird
<jbailey> I had managed to get an oops out of it once, but not when the serial console was plugged into it.
<fabbione> did you plug a net cable in it?
<jbailey> Yes.
<jbailey> Well
<jbailey> Into one of the three nics.
<fabbione> did you try to unplug it?
<fabbione> i wonder if the network card is hunging the test
<jbailey> No.
<jbailey> I was thinking of trying to find an old stable release (like woody) and putting it on, and doing builds.
<jbailey> Just to make sure.
<jbailey> But I won't have time for that soon.
<jbailey> I'm still worried that it could be just a gcc-4 issue or something.
<fabbione> hold on
<jbailey> I don't know how many other people are actively testing current dapper kernels. =)
<fabbione> halt
<fabbione> does it hang the boot or the hw?
<jbailey> EPARSE
<fabbione> i understood that the hw was broken
<jbailey> Which it?
<fabbione> dunno.. it sounded that way
<jbailey> The machine boots fine.
<fabbione> well you can still reinstall breezy and debug stuff :)
<fabbione> just stay with breezy kernel ;)
<jbailey> Installing breezy on this was such a pain in the arse.  *sigh*
* jbailey tries to backrev.
<fabbione> well dude
<fabbione> it was a pain true
<fabbione> now you admit to have a netcable in it
<fabbione> so you can netinstall it
<fabbione> and do it clean :)
<jbailey> I'm not setup for netinstall.
<jbailey> That's why I was testing CD installs for you.
<jbailey> I don't have a separate network, and shutting up the dhcp server is too much work.
<jbailey> That's why I Was thinking Woody.
<fabbione> you do have a laptop. don't you?
<jbailey> Yes.
<jbailey> No crossover cable atm.
<jbailey> I gave it back to infinity. =)
<fabbione> ok.. and 3 nics in the sparc?
<fabbione> ah ok
<fabbione> hell dude.. you should have told me
<fabbione> i have tons of crossovers and hubs
* fabbione sighs
<fabbione> ok listen.. deal.. buy a cross over or an extra hub.. i will pay it ;)
<jbailey> Did Sparc participate in flight-1, btw?
<fabbione> nope
<fabbione> too busy building at that time
<fabbione> i might get flight 2 assuming oo2 builds
<fabbione> i got all of main builded
<jbailey> Is 2.6.12-9 a good test, or do I need to go older?
<fabbione> 2.6.12-9 is the kernel that we used for release
<fabbione> it's ok, why?
<jbailey> I'll try just setting that to the default boot.
<fabbione> ah ok
<fabbione> sure that should work if udev is not 100% nuts
<jbailey> udev won't run on that kernel.
<jbailey> It'll just refuse to start.
<jbailey> I've just fired up a gdb build on the old kernel, we'll see how she does.
<fabbione> cool
<fabbione> remind me.. why did you need gdb 64 bit?
<jbailey> I think case, to debug sparc64 tls. =)
<jbailey> s/think/this/
<jbailey> s/I/In/
<fabbione> no need to
* jbailey needs to turn up the heat in here, fingers are stiff.
<fabbione> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=341514
<jbailey> I don't need to debug it?
<fabbione> tls works fine on 64bit assuming you backport all the patches from David Miller
<fabbione> that Debian did not
<fabbione> we did the right thing disabling it
<jbailey> Dude, what do you think I'm doing?
<jbailey> I'm in the middle of backporting all of them, and I get a segfault.
<fabbione> *cough*
<fabbione> ok
<jbailey> So now I'm debugging it before I upload it as a working version. =)
<fabbione> david said also that tls makes sense on 32bit
<fabbione> not on 64
<fabbione> it's there almost only for accademic reasons
<jbailey> Umm, that's not sensical.
<fabbione> at least that's my understanding of what he said to me a couple of days ago
<jbailey> NPTL requires TLS support.
<jbailey> So if the goal is to eliminate the old LinuxThreads library, I need it working.
<fabbione> fabbione i don't think we will push that for dapper
<fabbione> davem right, sparc64 libc doesn't need to be TLS
<fabbione> davem it's nice that 32-bit can be
<fabbione> ok i can ask him for the patch than
<jbailey> He won't have it.
<jbailey> He did the work against current upstream.
<jbailey> You'll be asking him to do the same work that I've mostly done.
<fabbione> i didn't connect the 2 things till now
<fabbione> right..
<jbailey> But we need gdb to work for all the arch combos we can run anyway.
<fabbione> well i am sorry.. i got to it too late
<jbailey> So I'm getting biarch to work for sparc/sparc64 and ppc/ppc64.
<fabbione> otherwise i would have asked him :/
<jbailey> Well, but we can't expect Dave to carry the sparc port for us entirely.
<fabbione> no no no
<fabbione> i understand that
<fabbione> but given he wrote most of that code
<fabbione> for him doing a backport is much less expensive than for us
<jbailey> Not much so, though.
<fabbione> specially given he does use debian and ubuntu
<fabbione> he cares about it
<jbailey> Gettnig all the code was reasonably quick.
<jbailey> DEbugging it ought to be once I have a debugger. =)
<jbailey> My biggest limitation is waiting 12 hours for a build iteration. =)
<jbailey> glibc 2.3 and 2.4 changed how their TLS stuff is done.
* fabbione eyes the choccolate cake in the kitchen and plans a pickup mission
<jbailey> So I ported all of the stuff to 2.3's style.
<fabbione> ah i see
<jbailey> I'm guess I've just missed an initialisation somewhere.
<fabbione> evi
<fabbione> l
<jbailey> Right.
<jbailey> Because it'll be in a chunk of asm.
<fabbione> can we split glibc? ;)
<jbailey> That's where he'd be able to go faster than I.
<jbailey> He can read the asm at full speed.
<fabbione> in a lot of tiny small readable sources?
<jbailey> But getting to this point is much harder.
<jbailey> It *is* small tiny readable sources. =)
<jbailey> That's half the problem.
<jbailey> In which frigging source file is the problem? =)
<fabbione> eh
<fabbione> exactly
<jbailey> But gdb will tell me what part of the initialisation is segfaulting.
<fabbione> right
<jbailey> Then I'll do the trace against a modern glibc compile and track both backwards.
<fabbione> you make me hot when you talk to me so dirty!
<jbailey> *lol*
<fabbione> ok time for a break
<jbailey> fabbione: It might be worth asking Znarl if he can handle it - he's been really quick on things.
<BenC> lamont: did you see what I said wrt elilo?
<lamont__> BenC: did not.
<BenC> scroll back in ubuntu-kernel
<lamont__> BenC: doh
<lamont__> thanks
<lamont__> and awaiting your reply there
<jbailey> fabbione: I notice that the gdb testsuite includes a number of thread failures on sparc.  I wonder how many of these are related to them making assumptions about debugging linuxthreads.
<jbailey> fabbione: I should check the source to see what its assuming.
<jbailey> gdb build finished on sparc.
<jbailey> So that hardware could still be broken, but not exercised by 2.6.12, or 2.6.15 could be broken.
<jbailey> No opinion offered. =)
<BenC> none given either :)
<BenC> I have no idea
<BenC> it's an odd lockup
<jbailey> BenC: Maybe when there's less snow, I can give you my patch to gdb and you can try building it?
<jbailey> I don't know that it hangs the machine if I don't try a biarch gdb build.
<BenC> if you can put it somewhere I can download it, I can do a build
<jbailey> Sure.  I was more thinking that you don't want to have to go out there if it crashes. =)
<jbailey> It's a 3 line patch to debian/rules.  Lemme put the .dsc/.diff.gz up somewhere.
<BenC> it's ok, I can just flip the breaker for the whole barn from in the house, and reboot all the machines :)
<jbailey> You have the whole thing on one circuit out there?
<jbailey> Tell me it's a subpanel circuit. =)
<jbailey> And not a 15amp. =
<jbailey> )
<jbailey> BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/sparc/
<BenC> yeah, it's a 100Amp breaker to a subpanel
* BenC curses direcway
<BenC> might be a bit before I can do that gdb build
<BenC> Fair Access Policy just kicked in because I was downloading edubuntu iso
<jbailey> Fair Access Policy?
<BenC> pay $120/month for business grade access, three times the cost of cable, and they didn't tell me about this FAP bullshit
<jbailey> Hmm.  Direcway.  Isn't that DirecTv's Internet service?
<BenC> yeah, if you consume high b/w over an extended period, they b/w limit you for awhile
<BenC> yeah, I can't get normal broadband here
<jbailey> Just funny.  I helped review some of the design specs for it.
<jbailey> I wonder how different the design from back then was to what they have now.
<jbailey> It was 1994. =)
<BenC> other than FAP and the 400ms latency, it's not too bad
<BenC> it's way different
<BenC> I have high-power xmit, for .5mbs upload speed
<jbailey> Ah, yeah.  The original design didn't include any up.  It was telephone connect for up.
<BenC> you can't stand in front of my dish, else you risk eltromagnetic health hazards :)
<BenC> first time I had it, they just started the 56kps upload to avoid the phone line
<jbailey> But it was going to be basically 38,4k up, 100 megs down. =)
<BenC> they've been building up business class service for high-power upload
<BenC> shit, they don't sell 100mbs down, highest is 2mbs I believe
<BenC> I max out at 300kbytes/sec
<BenC> generally it's 200kbytes/sec
<BenC> under FAP, I get 12kbytes/sec
<jbailey> Hmm.  I wonder how much of that is just a limit on how fast you can ack packets.
<jbailey> *ouch*
<BenC> I think most of it has to do with dish size, the higher d/l rate you get, the larger the dish gets
<jbailey> Yeah.  I just looked in awe at the specs that actually mentioned how the birds and dishes worked.
<jbailey> Totally no clue on that side.
<BenC> the xmit is configurable via the DW7000 modem/router, so they can bump that from the NOC
<BenC> I think I'm at 2 watts on xmit
<BenC> wish there was a way to bump that power without it telling the NOC :)
<jbailey> So the day beore thanksgiving they up the power and roast you a turkey in flight? =)
<BenC> lol
<BenC> I actually thought these new DW7000's were supposed to be linux OS on the inside
<BenC> Hughes had a Linux black-box beta test a few years ago
<BenC> but they are VxWorks (I can telnet to it)
<jbailey> It's interesting seeing Linux lose out a bit to VxWorks.
<jbailey> I don't follow embedded that closely, but it seems to be turning up more and more.
<BenC> probably had to do with real-time stuff
<jbailey> ALso that an embedded more Linux kernel with all the size options turned on is still 700k uncompressed.
<jbailey> (2.6.14)
<BenC> might have been something with the GPL too
<BenC> all the press that Linksys got about WRT54G's being hacked up probably scared them
* BenC has two linksys wrt's with hacked firmware to bump the xmit power
<jbailey> Yeah.
<jbailey> It would be sad to see Linux bumped out of the embedded market.
<jbailey> So many fun applications waiting for us. =)
<BenC> yeah, I love doing embedded work
<BenC> so much freedom
* jbailey wanders out to buy groceries for lunch. =)
<BenC> of course the only embedded system I ever did, I wrote the OS from scratch (multitasking, preemptive OS, with TCP/IP stack, video decode, and gigabit ethernet driver, in 512k RAM)
<BenC> linux wouldn't be able to do that
<jbailey> BenC: Anything you want me to do on this sparc box befor eI wander off?
<jbailey> 512k, sweet.
<BenC> nah, I'll get gdb compiling to see if I can reproduce
<jbailey> Cool.  If you can't, I can try running test kernels or something that just spits out log information more often or something.
<jbailey> I've got a serial console wired up to it now, so if there's anything that can be got usefully from that, lemme know.
<fabbione> jbailey: ok
<jbailey> EUNMATCHED: ok
<jbailey> fabbione: Was that to the gdb thread failures comment?
<fabbione> jbailey: yes
<fabbione> (catching up on the backlog)
<jbailey> Yeah, it was just far enough back I didn't remember what I'd said to you. =)
<fabbione> no suriprise :)
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> BenC: Might still be my sparc hardware.
<jbailey> BenC: It died while sitting idle.
<jbailey> on 2.6.12-9
<BenC> ah, sadly, I'm happy about that :)
* jbailey pouts at BenC =)
<jbailey> lamont, lamont__ : Any word on libc6-i386 for ia64 yet?
* lamont__ wanders over to ask
<jbailey> lamont__: Thanks. =)
#ubuntu-ports 2006-12-05
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-ports.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-ports.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-ports.log
<Dvalin> fabbione: around?
#ubuntu-ports 2007-12-03
<thegodfather> hey tom
<shinmen> Does anyone here uses debmirror for the sparc repository?
<thegodfather> tmarble: new nick ;)
<thegodfather> shinmen: i used to for a while
<tmarble> new nick?
<thegodfather> tmarble: <- fabbione :)
<tmarble> hold a sec (otp)
<tmarble> :)
<thegodfather> eheh
<shinmen> thegodfather: I'm using exactly what's on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Debmirror but I can't get it to download.
<shinmen> thegodfather: It only downloads like 30 megs or so.
<thegodfather> shinmen: sorry i don't have time to debug it now, but it works. I used it in combo with rsync
<shinmen> thegodfather: Ok, thanks.
<thegodfather> shinmen: i didn't read that doc.. just the man page
<thegodfather> tmarble: i need to go offline to put my son to sleep..
<thegodfather> tmarble: might pass by later if wife allows :)
<tmarble> thegodfather: ok... ping me when u r back
<thegodfather> tmarble: will do.. if i can't show up this evening, there is a very good chance that i won't be back for a while. Tomorrow we are inducing the birth of the second one
<tmarble> wow
<thegodfather> tmarble: because he is a tad 33% bigger than any other kid recoded in dk at this stage of pregnancy
<thegodfather> and my wife is scared to death
<tmarble> good luck
<thegodfather> thanks
<thegodfather> might pass by later
<tmarble> this is your top priority
<tmarble> i can wait
<thegodfather> it's all good :)
<thegodfather> late
<thegodfather> r
 * lamont wonders what the original due-date for godfather II was/is...
