#edubuntu 2006-01-30
<mhz> ogra: hi. Anuchances you could chage topic and add tomorrow's meeting?
<mhz> anu= any
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:Burgwork] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 25 Jan at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes| edubuntu flight3 released !
<Burgwork> mhz, the topic is open to change by anybody
<mhz> Burgwork: oooohhh
<mhz> okis
<Burgwork> mhz, we are a not fascist dictatorship here, despite my best efforts ;)
<mhz> lol
* mhz slaps himself because this is 2nd time he cant make it to CC meeting
<Burgwork> mhz, it already happened
<mhz> Burgwork: yup, that's why I slapmyself
<mhz> because I run allday but I just couldn't get to ti
<mhz> it
<paolob> hi guys! I have a problem with a 3com 3c905C-TX/TX-M nic, lspci sees it, but in dmesg I don't see it. What does it mean?
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Status Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 1 hour
<JaneW> ogra: you having connection problems?
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Status Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 25 mins
<ogra> JaneW, yes, since some days already
<ogra> its most annoying
<mhz> JaneW: morning to all
<mhz> well, good morning to JaneW ogra and all
<mhz> :)
<mhz> .oO(that was the idea)
<signifer123> good morn
<JaneW> hi mhz
<ogra> moin
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu Status Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in +- 1 min
<hannes_> ok, I got edubuntu up and workin
<hannes_> g
<hannes_> (or rather the ltsp client
<hannes_> but I can't log into it
<mhz> hannes_: congrats
<mhz> oooh
<mhz> in the server, did you run $ ltsp-updte-sshkeys ?
<ogra> hannes_, is the ssh server running on the server ? 
<ogra> mhz, no need to normally
<mhz> ogra: i hope but so far, 90% of the times I respond that.. it works :D
<mhz> (in breezy)
* mhz still feels terrible for not being able to test f3
<mhz> nor 1 or f3
<ogra> mhz, ltsp-build-client runs -update-sshkeys on install 
<mhz> yea, i know
<mhz> ogra: sorry, I wanted to make the question  here no tmeeting
<hannes_> yes
<hannes_> got logged in
<mhz> ogra: see? it worked for hannes_ 
<hannes_> after running ltsp-updte-sshkeys
<mhz> +1% now :D
<mhz> hannes_: good to hear it
<hannes_> the client has a bit different theme
<ogra> on the loginmanager you men ? 
<ogra> *mean
<mhz> hannes_: that's LDM
<hannes_> no
<mhz> Ltsp Display Manager
<hannes_> ok
<ogra> note that gnome has a bug that doesnt give you a theme if you log in with the same user twice
<ogra> make sure you have a user for every login ...
<mhz> good point
<hannes_> ogra: ok, that is it
<mhz> .oO(my first test was : user1 user2 user3 etc.. I had user30  BUT my crappie server let me got to user2 :D )
<hannes_> next things to do
<hannes_> get rid of the 10BASE-T switch
<hannes_> add some memory to the server
<mhz> memory... that's needed big time
<ogra> lol, 10BaseT :)
<ogra> that will certainly be a slowing down factor
<hannes_> ogra: yes
<ogra> :)
<hannes_> it is only becouse I want the ltsp-network separated from our school's network
<ogra> understandable 
<hannes_> there was only 10Mbit routers available
<hannes_> out of use
<hannes_> as the systems were upgraded to 100Mbps to clients and 1000Mbps
<hannes_> for backbone
<hannes_> well, I'm having a meeting tomorrow to show off the system
<hannes_> how can I shut down the server?
<hannes_> *client
<jsgotangco> ogra, do you have a minute?
<jeffinhedon> hello
<mblanch> Where can I read differences between Ubuntu and edubuntu?
<mblanch> ok, found it
<mhz_food> re
<mhz_food> JaneW: I have just got home. After meeting, while I was having breakast I was interrupted and had to leave home to attend an urgent matter.
<mhz_food> The good news is I have only 2 letters to do (instead of 3) now, 
<mhz_food> the bad one, is I could only write that minute after i finish those letters :(
<mhz_food> JaneW: and community... I apologyze
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Lord_Athur> mhz_food, could you talk a few minutes?
<Lord_Athur> 
<juliux> wtf ?
<juliux> ogra, ping
<Lord_Athur> !kb  andrew_ 
<Lord_Athur> !!
<juliux> JaneW, ogra PING
<lucasvo> idiot
<lucasvo> auto reconnect = on
<lucasvo> :P
<juliux> shit and there is nobody from freenode online
<juliux> ogra, hi bitte tu was
<signifer123> ahhh...
<juliux> hi Astinus 
<juliux> Astinus, can you help us?
<Lord_Athur> cannot anybody kill him?
<juliux> Lord_Athur, we need somebody who has op here or a staff member form freenode
<Lord_Athur> juliux, nobody would have this placer?
<Lord_Athur> juliux, nobody would want to have this placer?
<mrkaps> Astinus, since this nick isnt registered, i cant reply in pm. May i ask what you're referring to?
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: OGRA, AND jANE
<juliux> Lord_Athur, i try to get somebody from freenode
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Astinus> mrkaps: You can reply in PM
<Astinus> mrkaps: I'm exempted from that restriction.
<mrkaps> ah! they turned that off
<lucasvo> Astinus: are you staff from freenode?
<Astinus> lucasvo: yup
<lucasvo> Astinus: couln't you ban andrew_
<lucasvo> ?
<lucasvo> he's been doing this for about 20min
<lucasvo> thanks
<juliux> oh ist jetzt ruhe?
<lucasvo> I think so
<juliux> puh 
<juliux> we should have more than one op
<lucasvo> juliux: I'll ask ogra
<lucasvo> ?
<Lord_Athur> juliux, i thin so
<juliux> lucasvo, no nut ogra
<juliux> lucasvo, only highvoltage has op
<lucasvo> really?
<juliux> yes
<lucasvo> I thought ogra as well
<lucasvo> ok, so let's ask him
<juliux> no  see /cs access #edubuntu list
<juliux> only highvoltage
<juliux> and that isnt very good
<signifer123> cool he stopped :)
#edubuntu 2006-01-31
<paolob> Hi ogra!
<paolob> hi guys!
<paolob> I keeps having a big delay (> 1 min.) when the clients perform the 2nd mount nfs, before running the services in /etc/init.d : anyone could help me solve this problem? the more clients are booting, the larger is this delay. Any idea? I have the server in a lan with this pc, we could examine log, etc. Please help me if you can! :-) thank you!
<paolob> is it what is described in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientFasterStartup?highlight=%28delay%29 ?
<paolob> Do we have a solution without waiting for 6.04? thank you!
<paolob> I mean a workaround in order to solve the problem now
<guim> mhz_food ?
<guim> are you there,
<guim> ?
<paolob> hi guys!
<paolob> I keeps having a big delay (> 1 min.) when the clients perform the 2nd mount nfs, before running the services in /etc/init.d : anyone could help me solve this problem? the more clients are booting, the larger is this delay. Any idea? I have the server in a lan with this pc, we could examine log, etc
<paolob> Do we have a solution without waiting for 6.04? I mean a workaround in order to solve the problem now
<paolob> The problem seems what is described in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientFasterStartup?highlight=%28delay%29 ?
<ogra> well, the bugs isnt fixed in dapper yet
<ogra> there is a 3 second "sleep" command in the mount script in initramfs to avoid nfs timing out at first boot...
<ogra> you could try to remove that and see if the timeout occurs, that would save you the 3 second delay
<paolob> ogra : I think the problem is that the client is receiving two IP, one at boot, and another at the nfs mount before running the services.
<paolob> ogra: apparently the booted client doesn't "remember" its first IP address
<ogra> might be, i'll put some time into that bug after feature freeze, currently feature development is highest priority
<ogra> (so i havent looked deeply yet)
<ogra> its on the list as one of the highest priority bugs to be fixed in dapper though
<paolob> ogra: I have another LTSP net, with skole linux, and it hasn't that bug. It has been installed in 2002.
<paolob> ogra: but what package does the bug refer to?
<ogra> yes, it doesnt use initramfs, very likely a very old dhcpd and a 2.2 or 2.4 kernel
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/19196
<paolob> ogra: yes a 2.4 kernel
<ogra> thats not comparable ...
<ogra> skole is based on woody, thats five year old software :)
<paolob> ogra: :-(
<ogra> we must fix the bug in recent software
<ogra> sorry that there is only this 3 second workaround yet, but its at least better to boot slower than to not boot at all
<paolob> ogra: how do I put the 3 sec. workaround precisely?
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<ogra> edit /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
<ogra> run: dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
<ogra> in the above script there is only one sleep command, just delete that line
<paolob> ogra: dpkg-reconfigure gave me many similar locale warnings:
<ogra> thats fine
<paolob> # dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
<paolob> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
<paolob> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
<paolob>         LANGUAGE = "es_DO:es_ES:es:en_GB:en",
<paolob>         LC_ALL = (unset),
<paolob>         LANG = "es_DO.UTF-8"
<paolob>     are supported and installed on your system.
<ogra> there is no locale set in the chroot 
<paolob> ah, ok
<paolob> ogra: then, when I do the first client's boot, all should be ok?
<ogra> either it times our and will only work on second boot, or its 3 seconds faster
<ogra> s/our/out/
<penguin_roar> hello0
<juliux> hi penguin_roar 
<penguin_roar> anyone have a good script for managin lost sessions=
<penguin_roar> some users processes gets left hanging by gdm
<penguin_roar> that is, after they log out or something goes wrong
<divansantana> Hello! Anyone here got LTSP working with sound and local devices?
<ogra> sound is included by default in the dapper releases
<ogra> s/releases/release/
<ogra> local devices out of the box will wait until dapper+1 (october)
<divansantana> Can I use the dapper version now? To get the sound working?
<divansantana> Is it easy to upgrade to dapper from breezy LTSP?
<ogra> we have ltspfs and ltspfsd in dapper available, so you'll be able to set up local device support wiht the scripts from ltsp.org until its implemented
<divansantana> Should I rather compile from source using Mandriva? to get the sound etc working?
<ogra> dapper is in heavy development currently, YMMV 
<jsgotangco> :)
<ogra> why from mandriva ? 
<divansantana> Mandrake can apparently get LTSP sound and local devies working... I think
<divansantana> Can I get sound working in breezy manually?
<ogra> you sould need the ltsp-server-standalone package from dapper in any case, i didnt test if it works on breezy
<ogra> s/sould/would/
<divansantana> But its probably not stable yet. I need to setup a terminal server with sound and local devices but I prefer ubuntu so would like towait untill April
<ogra> divansantana, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport shows how i implemented it in dapper, you can try to do the same in breezy
<divansantana> So can upgrade to dapper and get sound working. Else I must go with Mandrake setup which dont want to!
<divansantana> ogra: Wow! Thanks for that! At leastt I have some lead to follow! Hopefully it can help me!
<ogra> feel free to bug me if you have other questions 
<divansantana> ogra: So would I rather set up this scenario following this way https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto or this way http://linus.yhspatriot.net/cs/docs/ubuntu_howto/UbuntuLTSPInstall to setup the sound as per https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport
<divansantana> ogra: What do you think
<ogra> erm
<ogra> the second document is evil :)
<ogra> thats only for hoary, where we werent upstream for ltsp development ... the ltsp 4.1 impelmentation will get dropped soon in ubuntu ...
<ogra> the sound impelmentation indeed applies only to the ltsp we develop on ubuntu, not to the old ltsp.org implementation
<divansantana> There for I should do the following you think https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport + https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport
<divansantana> ogra: Wow! You probably just saved me from wasting a whole bunch of my time!
<ogra> depends :)
<divansantana> ogra: ?
<ogra> ltsp 4.1 works even in breezy, but you'll have to reinstall to upgrade :)
<divansantana> I meant  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport +https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto 
<ogra> muecow ltsp we develop in ubuntu will be fully upgradeable over all ubuntu releases :)
<divansantana> Okay so I either do MueKow or I build from source? Or what is the seond option?
<ogra> err, these were the two options :)
<ogra> muecow is the default in ubuntu, but as you see is missing the exctra goodies in breezy (like sound or localdev)
<divansantana> So this https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientAudioSupport applies to MueKow version right ?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> it applies to ubuntu developemnt :)
<divansantana> Kewl, So I will try my butt off to get MueKow + sound because I love Kubuntu! Over Mandrake
<ogra> :)
<divansantana> Thank you thank you! Do you work for Canonical ? Hehe
<ogra> just dont mix the two ... that will break heavily :)
<ogra> yup
<divansantana> What do you mean? Don't mix MueKow and source right?
<ogra> dont use ltspadmin and friends if you have ltsp-server installed
<ogra> there he goes 
<divansantana> Strangely konversation crashed
<divansantana> But my pc is slow...
<edubuntu> Problem to set up Edubuntu thin client. Proceeded as described in Wiki. PXE boot process starts, loads pxelinux..., detects hardware and then appears message /sbin/init -no such directory, cannot get tty, job control turned off...
<edubuntu> What to do???
<edubuntu> It happens with every client (just ordinary  PCs) I try to boot
<ogra> you did a default edubuntu install ? 
<ogra> and followed http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes and the linked pages ? 
<edubuntu> Please help! Cannot start thin client. Have done as described in installnotes: configured server, thinclients (usual PC-s) can PXE boot. Procedure happens as follow: Client booting, find pxelinux.0, detect lot of hardware then problem with /sbin/init - then cannot find "target filesystem" and process stops with a # in reduced commandline. What is wrong?
<ogra> thats breezy ? 
<edubuntu> Yes, thats Edubuntu 5.10
<ogra> check that the nfs server is running ...
<ogra> can you post your dhcpd.conf to a pastebin ? 
<edubuntu>  dhcpd.conf is like in edubuntu server setup page -as usual. Cannot send it at the moment  because cannot browse to our school edubuntu server at the moment (I'm behind my laptop with Ubuntu 5.10). In system-monitor are running several nfs processes. Actually the same server is working for a computer class with dedicated VXL thin clients and there is no problem, because clients are quite smart (supporting esound, smb etc) and "join" the se
<ogra> thats strange ... it sounds liek a nfs timeout ...
<ogra> are these special thin clients with any strange hardware config on board ? 
<edubuntu> The class terminals are like this http://www.vxl.net/product.asp?pmodel=tc6833-li but PC-s I try to boot are simple basic PC-s. I tried PXE boot my IBM R40 today and it acts exactly the same and displays same messages as PC. Is there something wrong with kernel loading?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> if you get to the initramfs you already got a kernel 
<edubuntu> How can i get then the login screen (gdm or similar)?
<ogra> there should be a nfs timeout error somewhere above
<edubuntu> where is done nfs configuration?
<ogra> in /etc/exports but it gets set up on install 
<ogra> if your install finished properly then all will be set up fine 
<edubuntu> Maybe it is our network problem? Special strange protocol? All network is configured with TCP/IP. 3Com switches...
<ogra> that shouldnt be an issue
<edubuntu> So as i understand, if all finished correctly i should arrive to a login screen (gdm??)
<ogra> ldm
<edubuntu> vxl terminals are getting gdm-login screen
<ogra> but yes
<edubuntu> maybe i have to disable xdmcp on the server?
<ogra> your dhcpd.conf file would be really intresting to solve it 
<ogra> edubuntu doesnt use xdmcp at all
<edubuntu> but i have switched on the xdmcp and then VXL terminals can connect to the server.
<ogra> (so a running one cant do any harm)
<edubuntu> I send you dhcpd.conf in minutes because it is exactly the same as in wiki page
<ogra> and its in the right place 
<ogra> (/etc/ltsp/)
<ogra> i assume 
<edubuntu> dhcpd. conf is authoritative;  subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;   option domain-name "example.com";   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;   option routers 192.168.0.1;   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;    filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386"; }
<edubuntu> I have done probably several stupidities: installed ltspadmin packages, made ltsp-build-client which is probably not necessary at all... Nothing helped.
<ogra_> agh
<ogra_> reinstall the server 
<ogra_> never use ltspadmin together with ubuntu 
<ogra_> s/ubuntu/edubuntu(
<ogra_> ltsp-bild-client is run by the installer already, never run it twice ...
<ogra_> looks like you completely broke the ltsp setup
<edubuntu> Sad news - because otherwise terminals are working flawlessly, playing sounds, movies, connecting USB sticks. I have ab. 800 registered users for the class. I would not like to make the reinstall. 
<ogra_> there is no way to fix it reliable 
<edubuntu> VXL terminals doesnt care at all if I have built the client or not
<ogra_> they dont netboot, they just start a local system
<edubuntu> The messages on thinclient (usual PC-s) screen are the same - before ltsp-build-client or after
<ogra_> ltsp-build-client might do no harm, never tried it, but ltspadmin overwrites the confis, installs a wrong kernel and other things
<edubuntu> As I suppose ltsp-build-client is simply installing client system in /opt/ltsp/i386. Where is located Edubuntu "thinclient stuff"=
<edubuntu> ?
<ogra_> nope, it als changes configs in the client chroot, generates a netboot kernel and installs it in the tftpserver
<edubuntu> I didnt install ltsp kernel module - only ltsp-core and ltsp-x-core. I suppose I can also uninstall it.
<ogra_> uninstalling it and fixing the ubuntu setup might take you say 8-10h ... a reinstall will take you max 1.5h
<ogra_> if you dont have valuable data you cant back up i'd go for a reinstall ...
<ogra_> you'll have to check all config files in the client chroot ... 
<edubuntu>  I have 800 users with their home folders. I am little bit afraid because setting user privileges was not very easy. Edubuntu lost the trace several times (ie. certain privileges disappeared in couple of days etc.)
<ogra_> hmm
<ogra_> first remove the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir 
<ogra_> then run ltsp-build-client again ... 
<ogra_> with a lot of luck it works ...
<edubuntu> Even after initial install I couldnt start simple PCs as thin clients. Thats why I started "fiddle" with this ltspadmin.
<edubuntu> Are you sure that it doesnt affect VXL terminals and current users?
<ogra_> they all stalled after the initramfs ? 
<edubuntu> Can I join you tomorrow on the list? -  Im in the office and can touch our edubuntuserver directly? What a clock UTC?
<ogra_> it wont access any user data
<ogra_> i'm here every day
<edubuntu> every hour?
<ogra_> normally i stand up around 10 UTC
<edubuntu> OK - see you.
<JaneW> ogra: that's my lunch time ;)
<ogra> yupp :)
<ogra> but you dont stay up intil 3:00 UTC ;)
<JaneW> ogra: indeed I don't... usually 22:00UTC
<JaneW> ogra: so you win ;P
<JaneW> actually wait, it's the same amount of awake time...
<JaneW> but I spend more afk, so you still win ;)
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'm just livng at atlantis TZ ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: on a nice little island?
<lucasvo> ;-P
<ogra> heh
<coolio_za> does anyone use an internet cafe management tool
#edubuntu 2006-02-01
* mhz apologizes for being absent for so long and not having last minute ready yet
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<paolob> Hi guys!
<paolob> Anyone could tell me what config file should I modify in order not to have the "no free leases" error? thank you!
<paolob> mhz, do you remember it?
<mhz> paolob: hi
<paolob> hola mhz 
<mhz> hola
<mhz> I have never had such error, sorry :)
<paolob> How many clients do you work with?
<mhz> paolob: I wish I had 'clients' to work with and test. So far, a small 1GHz Celeron and 2 thin laptops
<paolob> mhz, it's an error due to exhausting the IP range permitted by dhcp
<mhz> ohhh
<mhz> how many clients?
<paolob> mhz, what do you think of the delay the clients have when performing the nfs mount before running the services? did you see it?
<paolob> mhz, I have 40 clients (don't you remember?)
<mhz> oh, tes!
<mhz> t =y
<mhz> paolob: breezy or dapper?
<paolob> breezy
<paolob> mhz, do you have that delay with your laptops?
<mhz> I know breezy take loooong to load 
<mhz> yup
<mhz> Dapper loads clients lot faster
<mhz> afaik
<mhz> but haven't had the chance to test it yet
<paolob> :-)
<mhz> paolob: does your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf mention anything about leases?
* mhz phone
<paolob> mhz, no. ogra had told me I have to change a parameter that governs a lease's life
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> well, he's the Mr. Edubuntu
<paolob> the strange thing is he told me to change a parameter in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf, but apparently that config file is superseded by /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf in /etc/init.d/dhcp3
<mhz> oh, that makes sense
<mhz> paolob: what IRC client do you use?
<paolob> xchat
<mhz> do you have logs 'enabled'?
<paolob> I enable it right now
<mhz> $ grep -B 7 -A 3 -i leases ~/.xchat/xchatlogs/.....
<mhz> oh
<mhz> you hadn't ??
<mhz> then I have no clue how to help you unless I tell you google for 'dhcp leases' :D
<paolob> I enabled it right now
<paolob> what did you want me to see?
<mhz> or 'comment out' (#) the lines about 'leases' in the file ogra mentioned
<mhz> paolob: I thought you could have check the logs of that chat ;)
<paolob> but the fact is that that config file isn't used by dhcp3!
<mhz> ?
<mhz> well, I am pretty sure /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is the file we use
<paolob> ok
<paolob> but than, what do I put there?
<mhz> but I see no 'lease' lines in my dhcpd.conf
* mhz phone again!
<paolob> that's the fact!
<paolob> should I add it?
<paolob> default-lease-time 600;
<paolob> max-lease-time 7200;
<paolob> these should be the lines, ogra told me to put 200 instead of 600
<paolob> mhz, do I think I can add it to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
<paolob> s/I/you/
<mhz> what's the worst thing that can happen if you do? :D
<paolob> that's true!
<mhz> ogra__: i truly did not get a clue of what to add to the minute regarding your stuff :( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMeetingRecords
<mhz> please add it yourself or tell me what to add. Thx for your understanding.
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootGrub <-- is this total bollocks
<Burgundavia> ?
<Burgundavia> never mind
<edubuntu> Back with my yesterday thin client booting problem. Errors begin when commandline: Begin: Running /scripts/nfs-premount...
<edubuntu> Done. 
<edubuntu> nfsmount: need a path 
<edubuntu> Begin: Running /scripts/nfs-bottom... 
<edubuntu> Done.
<edubuntu> Done. 
<edubuntu> Begin: Running /scripts/init-bottom... 
<edubuntu> Done. 
<edubuntu> mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed:  No such file or directory. 
<edubuntu> mount: Mounting /dev on /root/dev failed: No such file or directory. 
<edubuntu> Target filesystem doesn't have /sbin/init.    
<edubuntu> Then: BusyBox v1.00 bla-bla-bla. 
<edubuntu> /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
<edubuntu> Where is the solution?
<edubuntu> What could be wrong with my nfs?
<ogra> did you rebuild the client chroot as i told you ? 
<edubuntu> I did simply ltsp-build-client, but you advised to delete a directory...which one? 
<ogra> the one where the client chroot rersides 
<ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386 (the one ltsp-build-client told you when you reran it that this will likely cause problems)
<edubuntu> No it didnt say nothing
<ogra> if you already have that dir there is a big warning 
<edubuntu> Does these operations affect my running VXL terminals?
<ogra> no idea
<ogra> i dont know VXL terminals apart from the stuff you told me
<ogra> likely it wont
<ogra> since they seem to have a local OS
<edubuntu> These have built-in opsys and start in kiosk mode and make then a connection to the server with XDMCP. There is no more choice for protocol. Only RDP and XDMCP. I assume these dont netboot but simply connect X-server.
<ogra> yup
<edubuntu> So it is harmless to delete /opt/ltsp/i386???? But really I didnt have any warning when rerunning ltsp-build-client...
<edubuntu> What kind of login screen I should arrive. Like gdm or similar. Is it graphical login or commandline?
<ogra> it will break your server install if it didnt finish propperly the last time  ...
<edubuntu> The problem actually starts with the line: mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: no such file or directory     then      mount: Mounting /dev on /root/dev failed: no such file or directory  Target filesystem doesnt have /sbin/init. I just looked in the  /etc/mkinitramfs/scripts folder - all the scripts folder are empty. Is it a nfs problem? The problem was similar before I touched to ltspadmin.
<ogra> did you rebuild your client chroot ? 
<edubuntu> Which command it is?
<ogra> ltsp-build-client after you cleaned up
<edubuntu> Ok i will try and 1st i backup actual /opt/ltsp/i386...
<ogra> no point in backing up a broken chroot... but as you like
<edubuntu> Should i remove only /i386 folder or /data and pkg_cache folders too?
<ogra> whats that ? 
<ogra> i have no idea how you got these folders there, they are not from edubuntu ...
<edubuntu> then i remove these
<edubuntu> If all is done is it necessary to restart  service(s), daemons?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> if all is done you should be able to boot
<edubuntu> ok ...it is configuring now...
<edubuntu> So i made a thin client boot and got exactly the same result.
<edubuntu> I have dhcp server in another PC. Maybe it is affecting the process. Missing a line in /etc/dhcpd.conf??
<ogra> err
<ogra> you did read the InstallNotes  ?
<ogra> dont edit /etc/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> its not used at all
<edubuntu> Yes I did it 100 times.
<ogra> and nope, you cant run two dhcp servers in one subnet
<edubuntu> I printed out also ubuntu thinclient-howto
<ogra> thats useless for edubuntu
<ogra> all stuff described there is done during install
<edubuntu> in edubuntu thinclient there is nothing to do- only configure PXE booting?
<ogra> nope, only edit the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file 
<ogra> to match the right subnet
<ogra> and restart dhcpd indeed
<ogra> then it runs
<ogra> but if you have a second dhcp server, either shut down the existing one, or dont use the one in edubuntu and configure the existing one for netbooting the thin clients
<ogra> you cant use two dhcp servers
<edubuntu> We have usual address space 192.168.0.1 (firewall and DHCP) up to 255. Edubuntu server is 40. My thin client is 59. When booting it clearly shows that it will boot to 40. May be I transmet the dhcpd.conf file?
<ogra> is the exisating one a linux server ? 
<edubuntu> yes
<ogra> then you could try to transfer the data into the config, yes
<ogra> you'll need the next-server directive to point to the nfs server though ... 
<ogra> the easier way would be to shut down the existing one and just use the edubuntu dhcp with a range from 1-254 ...
<ogra> or what ever range you like
<edubuntu> You were right, Ogra - when I stopped the existing DHCP server it booted up correctly. Superbe... Thousend thanks....
<ogra> :)
<ogra> there are workarounds on wiki.ltsp.org to run two dhcp servers on different ports in one network, but thats highly complicated to set up, i wouldnt suggest it if you can migrate to a single one
<^eniac^> hi all
<^eniac^> this is my new personal page:
<^eniac^> http://petrov.bgplace.org
<^eniac^> :-)
<stevis> Please can somebody tell me where i can find cabextract on edubuntu?
<stevis> or how i use it?
<stevis> i have been instructed to do this.....
<stevis> use cabextract on the .exe, then unshield on the data1.cab
<Burgwork> stevis, that might be a better question for #ubuntu as it is not edubuntu specific
<stevis> i did ask but nobody answered me
<stevis> i'm just trying to install netgear drivers for wifi card
<Burgwork> is there a #ndiswrapper
<stevis> guess i'll try again
<stevis> i got that
<stevis> dunno how to use that either
<Burgwork> they have experience with dealing with windows drivers, they might be able to help you
<stevis> ok thanks
#edubuntu 2006-02-02
<flint> ogra, Hey ollie!!
<flint> ogra, I am finally getting the test lab up and running...
<ogra> hey flint, thats cool :)
<scribe63> anyone know where to get edubuntu rss feeds
<ogra> what kind of rss feeds ? 
<scribe63> I have been using Akregator on KDE, it has rss news feeds for ubuntu, kubuntu and kde. So i was wondering if there is a source for edubuntu rss news feeds.
<ogra> nope
<scribe63> thanks
<ogra> if you mean planet, we dont have such thing yet ...
<ogra> but that would be a good idea for the near future though 
<scribe63> the one's i see are like Ubuntu Fridge, Kubuntu and yeah Planet KDE. Not sure how this gets implimented though. Just started using that type of service.
<ogra> since edubuntu is mainly a one man show developer wise, and i'm a lazy blogger, a edubuntu developer planet wouldnt make much sense, but  there are a lot of additional activities going on where it would make sense to have an aggregating site of user blogs
<ogra> additionally i normally send the bigger news items to the fridge ...
<scribe63> Cool, didn't know the ed -in- ubuntu was a one man show, will check the fridge then. Trying to keep abreast of experiences and usage of schooltool/bell and moodle.
<ogra> :)
<ogra> (it would be nice if it wasnt a one man show ;) )
<steelballz> can anyone help me with an ltsp question?
<ogra> sure
<steelballz> With other distro's I run ltspadmin is there something similar so I can check to see if everything is working with out checking everything individually
<ogra> in edubuntu ltsp is installed and configured in most parts out of the box
<ogra> the only thing you have to do is to edit the dhcpd config, like dscribed in the install notes
<ogra> (see this channels topic)
<ogra> dont ever run ltspadmin on a edubuntu ltsp
<steelballz> gotcha thanks
<ogra> :)
<ogra> if you have any probs dont hassle to ask here :)
<steelballz> I am hand installing everything so I just wanted to make sure everything is running
<steelballz> thanks again
<ogra> oh, ok, so you dont use edubuntu ? 
<steelballz> No I do but I am using the latest version of live amd 64 and I have to install the 32 bit client seperately
<ogra> oh, ok
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror http://archive.ubuntu.com/ 
<ogra> that should be it ...
<steelballz> I was working with you on this a week ago but I unfortunately haven't been able to get back to it until now
<ogra> yup, i remember
<ogra> if you have a i386 Cd handy, its even easier and faster to use this as the mirror
<steelballz> I was actually going to build create a live 20060125  i386. It is pretty stable and install the i386 from that
<ogra> hmm, not sure if it works with a livecd
<steelballz> sorry i mean daily
<ogra> ah :)
<steelballz> I have your instructions on how to install it from the cd
<ogra> ok
<steelballz> So if I install the amd64 and add the i386 client and I use the deault ip settings of 192.168.0.254 am I good to go or are there other services or file mods i need to work on?
<ogra> only the dhcpd.conf 
<steelballz> Excellent thanks
<ogra> the services are the same on all arches, ltsp-build-client cares for the kernel being copied into place and ltsp-update-sshkeys cares for ssh
<ogra> (the latter is run by the former ;) )
<steelballz> Oh so the ltsp-build-client takes care of the ssh
<ogra> yup
<steelballz> What have you found to be the best value thin client hardware?
<ogra> the ones sold at disklessworkstations.com are all quite nice
<gand> Is there a way to automatic restart machine after power outage?
<steelballz> gand: that is a setting in your bios
<ogra> thats a BIOS settin
<ogra> g
<gand> how to set it?
<ogra> in your BIOS settings 
<ogra> (but only if the mainboard supports it indeed)
<ogra> most server mainboards do
<gand> Mac G4?
<ogra> no idea, sorry
<gand> nothing trough software?
<ogra> how would you do that  ?
<gand> I'm running edubuntu PC
<gand> PPC
<ogra> it can only be done in firmware/bios
<ogra> dunno if openfirmware supports such settings
<gand> On OS X there is a check in the system preference, I supposed there was something similar
<ogra> nope
<ogra> as i said, you need to access the firmware directly 
<gand> ok thanks
<steelballz> ogra: what is the file i mod if I am using eth2 instead of eth0?
<ogra>  /etc/network/interfaces (or use the network gui tool) and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<ogra> dont forget to restart the dhcp server
<gregL31> anyone new to edubuntu?
<steelballz> ogra: The client came up but it's not working. It gets the ip but i get "TFTP prefix: /ltsp/" then several "trying to load: pxelinux.cfg*" then a "Could not find kernel image: linux"
<ogra> linux ???
<ogra> that should read vmlinuz
<ogra> look in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
<ogra> there should be vmlinuz (a link to the real image ) and initrd.img
<steelballz> yes there is
<ogra> and the pxelinux.cfg dir is there as well  
<ogra> ?
<steelballz> yes
<ogra> look in the file "default" inside this dir
<ogra> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash
<ogra> should be the only line in there
<steelballz> that is correct
<ogra> fine 
<ogra> paste your dhcpd.conf to a pastenbin please 
<steelballz> I am on another pc with x-chat. I will switch but that will take me a minute
<ogra> oki
<steelballz> ogra: are you still on?
<ogra> yup
<steelballz> ogra: i am an irc noobe and for some reason i cant\'t connect on the server I just built. It keeps saying "Connecting to local host (127.0.0.1)" I don't know why it's trying to do that
<steelballz> maybe i will just use sneaker net and copy the files to my usb flash
<ogra> just make sure the filename and root-path entrys in your config are right
<ogra> filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<ogra>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<ogra> thats how it should look like
<roy> tada
<ogra> tada ?  :)
<roy> ogra: what did you want me to do again
<ogra> just make sure the filename and root-path entrys in your config are right
<ogra>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<ogra> filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<ogra> thats how it should look like
<roy> I thought you wanted me to send you something
<ogra> yes, the dhcpd.conf you use ... but mainly to see these two lines
<roy> How do I send you the file? sorry
<ogra> paste it to a pastebin 
<roy> And that is where
<ogra> paste.ubuntulinux.nl is one i think
<roy> What i mean is, is pastebin something on xchat?
<ogra> nope, a web form
<roy> I not sure what that is can I just paste it her?
<roy> authoritative;
<roy> subnet 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<roy>   range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.250;
<roy>   option domain-name "example.com";
<roy>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.1;
<roy>   option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255;
<roy>   option routers 192.168.0.1;
<roy>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<roy>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<roy>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<roy> }
<ogra> no, please dont paste in the channel next time
<ogra> (other channels block you out if you paste more than five lines)
<ogra> the file looks ok
<ogra> can you do: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf ? 
<ogra> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot -v
<ogra> thats what should come out 
<roy> there is no -v
<ogra> thats only for logging ...
<ogra> important is that the former stuff is identical
<roy> otherwise it is exactly the same
<ogra> ok
<ogra> ps ax|grep inetd 
<ogra> (should give you a running inetd process)
<roy> It's only 2 lines can I paste that
<ogra> sure
<roy>  4984 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
<roy>  8100 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep inetd
<ogra> just not complete files ;)
<ogra> thats fine as well
<ogra> can you do the same for dhcpd ?
<roy> 5699 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -q -pf /var/run/dhcp3-server/dhcpd.pid -cf /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<roy>  8154 pts/0    S+     0:00 grep dhcpd
<ogra> hmm, looks fine as well
<ogra> i wonder why it doesnt get the kernel then
<ogra> (and why it looks for the wrong name)
<ogra> you are sure youre not having any other dhcp server running in the net ?
<roy> Oh my God - sorry. I just hit myself in the head. I forgot about that. I'll turn it off now. 
<ogra> heh
<ogra> the two most common probs: running ltspadmin in edubuntu, having a running dhcpd anywhere else in the net 
<ogra> i should chnage my habit of asking ;)
<ogra> and put these two always first 
<roy> I actually discovered that issue a couple of months ago and I already forgot. Old age. Sorry
<roy> It is still going throught each one very slowly "Trying to load pxelinux.cfg/*" Do i need to modify something or stop and start dhcp
<ogra> hmm, normally it should just work 
<roy> ogra: IS there anything that could have affected a .conf setting with the firewall dhcp originally on?
<ogra> firewall ? 
<roy> Sorry my secondary name came up
<roy> I'm steelballz
<ogra> yes
<ogra> i grokked that
<roy> huh?
<ogra> if you only have the edubuntu dhcp running, the clients should cleanly boot 
<roy> any other ideas?
<ogra> not really ... you dhcpd seems to be configured right and your tftpd as well ...
<roy> Is there anything I can run on the server to monitor the proccess
<ogra> ps/top ...
<ogra> or the gnome-system-monitor ...
<ogra> the ip of the interface your thin clients are connected to matches the dhcp server range you configured ? 
<roy> I didn't modify the file I just configued my nic at 192.168.0.254 and the client is getting an IP address of 192.168.0.250
<ogra> dont configure it between 192.168.0.20 and 192.168.0.250 ... take 192.168.0.10 for example ...
<ogra> the server shouldnt have an ip in the dynamic range ...
<ogra> but still thats not the cause of your problem 
<ogra> the clients are dfinately PXE clients ? 
<roy> The server is at 192.168.0.254 and the client is a comaq workstation with a Intel nic which has worked on all other distro's
<roy> Is there any other info you would like to know that comes up when the client boots?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> put the server to 192.168.0.10
<roy> ok
<ogra> that it worked on other distros doesnt mean it uses PXE
<ogra> do you see PXE messages on the screen on boot
<roy> Yes i do. For some reason after I changed the server IP the client came up still trying to connect to 192.168.0.254
<ogra> always restart the dhcpd afetr changing the ip
<roy> What is the command line for dhcp restart
<ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<roy> after restarting dhcp it still fails
<ogra> it still gets the wrong server ip ??
<roy> no it now says 192.168.0.10
<ogra> still the same error ? 
<roy> the same "trying to load..."
<roy> Would you like to remote on the box or am i asking to much
<ogra> not now, i have to pack my bags, flying at 6am tomorrow ...
<ogra> but its very strange
<roy> I appreciate the effort today
<ogra> seems all is configured right on your box
<ogra> it should work... and i cant imagine why it wouldnt
<ogra> can you look in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ and confirm there is the -i386 kernel ? 
<roy> Since you will be gone a while is there any thing I can read 
<ogra> i wont be gone a while := 
<ogra> i'll be here tomorrow again
<roy> ok : )
<ogra> please check that you really have the i386 image in the tftp directory... thats the only thing i could imagine that might be wrong... we did chaeck everything else
<roy> initrd.img-2.6.15-13-386 and vmlinuz-2.6.15-13-386
<ogra> looks ok
<roy> amd64 is also there
<ogra> where do the links point to ? 
<ogra> (vmlinuz and initrd.img)
<roy> your testing my linux skills. I forgot how to command line to determine that
<ogra> ls -l 
<roy> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      24 2006-01-28 10:50 initrd.img -> initrd.img-2.6.15-13-386
<roy> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root      21 2006-01-28 10:50 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-2.6.15-13-386
<ogra> looks fine 
<roy> i must be doing something stupid
<ogra> its dapper ....
<roy> I could never get this to work in amd64 but it always has worked fine if I installi386
<ogra> it might be a breakage anywhere else ...
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> lets try something else 
<ogra> do the following:
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ apt-get install syslinux
<ogra> sudo cp /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
<ogra> then try again 
<roy> Failed to fetch file:///cdrom/pool/main/s/syslinux/syslinux_3.11-3ubuntu1_i386.deb  File not found
<roy> nevermind
<ogra> oh
<ogra> sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ apt-get update
<ogra> then run the above again
<roy> Get:1 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main syslinux 3.11-3ubuntu1 [208kB] 
<roy> Fetched 208kB in 1s (195kB/s)
<roy> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
<ogra> thats ok
<ogra> now copy the pxelinux binary over 
<ogra> and try to boot again
<ogra> (the client)
<roy> When I ran the install syslinux It didn't look like it ran successfully at all
<ogra> look if the pxelinux file is there 
<roy> you mean in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp$
<ogra> sudo cp /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
<ogra> i mean the /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/syslinux/pxelinux.0 file
<roy> I see it
<roy> I'm rebooting the client
<ogra> could you copy the file ? 
<ogra> (was it there ? )
<roy> It didn't give an error when I ran your command line so I assume it did
<ogra> or did cp give an "file not found" error
<ogra> ah, great
<ogra> lets see then
<roy> same results
<roy> Do I have to wait until it gets to that file?
<ogra> sure, it should load the pxelinux.cfg and then load the kernel ...
<roy> it's still on pxelinux.cfg/CAO800
<ogra> hmm
<roy> and it goes very very slow
<ogra> that looks rather like a network problem to me ...
<ogra> "it loads but is slow" at least indicates that the server serves 
<roy> you are very patient
<roy> it's on pxelinux.cfg/default and nothing is happening
<roy> I'm going to try another client just for snicks
<ogra> yup
<roy> Back in a minute
<ogra> it really sounds like a network prob rather than a server prob
<roy> I tried another client and it fails the same. I have run Centos-ltsp and FC4-ltsp with no trouble on the same setup
<ogra> they are completely different implementations
<roy> Should I try connecting to the server directly with a crossover cable?
<ogra> yes, that'd be good, so you can exclude all possible network probs
<roy> direct give me the exact same results
<roy> I have an idea
<roy> Will the i386 dapper live cd work
<roy> you know just to prove thing out
<ogra> hmm, yers, but you need to set up everything manually
<roy> It was a thought
<roy> Or I could just install the i386 dapper to confirm my sanity
<ogra> you casn use the liveCD and follow the ThinClientHowto on the wiki
<ogra> should work ...
<roy> ok i'll give a shot
<smykes> hey guys what grading software is included in Edubuntu?
<signifer123> don'th tihnk there one for gradin
<signifer123> there calss management
<signifer123> class*
<signifer123> you'd have otsee if the others got on
<smykes> is it Ggradebook?
<signifer123> don' t think we have that
<signifer123> thats a no on 5.10 dubuntu
<signifer123> edubuntu*
<smykes> any suggestions?
<smykes> perhaps a linux website aimed at teachers
<signifer123> i tihk you guys should include that though...at least in repository
<signifer123> think*
<signifer123> sorry i have none
<signifer123> you can install ggradebook if you want
<smykes> yeah I know :)
<smykes> I wasnt sure if there was something better
<signifer123> nah...
<signifer123> how good is it?
<signifer123> really bad?
<smykes> I haven't used it yet
<signifer123> ohhh
<signifer123> well then i'll ahve to lok at it myself :-p
<smykes> im not on a linux box right now so I can't
<signifer123> ok
<signifer123> well how long you gonna be on i cna give you screenies once i get it installed
<smykes> I saw one screen shot
<signifer123> ohh
<signifer123> where?
<smykes> at the site
<signifer123> yeah i jsut found it
<smykes> the site leaves something to be desired
<signifer123> yeah ....
<smykes> OpenGrade seems like another one
<signifer123> they both look really ugly
<smykes> but this sounds bad
<smykes> "If you're running a recent Linux distribution such as Suse 10 or Ubuntu "Breezy Badger," you will find that whenever you run a GTK+ application alongside of OpenGrade, it will cause OpenGrade to crash. I've submitted a patch to Perl/Tk to fix the problem, and if the patch is approved by Nick Ing-Simmons, I'm hoping that the problem will be fixed in Perl/Tk 804.029. OpenGrade 2.7.8 will detect this problem, if present, and refuse to ru
<Burgundavia> doesn't schooltool do grading?
<signifer123> does it?
<Burgundavia> no idea, never used it
<signifer123> yeah that does look bad...
<jinty> Burgundavia: the code is being written right now...
<Burgundavia> jinty, ah
<signifer123> for school tool?
<Burgundavia> jinty, do you work on schooltool?
<jinty> kindof
<jinty> but gotta go real soon
<signifer123> yeah i don't like the interface for ggradebook
<signifer123> too in yuor face
<smykes> ah my school already uses SchoolTool Calendar I think
<signifer123> :-p
<signifer123> mine will never switch :(
<smykes> Master Grade looks good but its expensive
<signifer123> and there no linux version :-p
<smykes> yeah :/
<smykes> I use OS X at home though
<signifer123> :-p
<signifer123> ohh
<smykes> it seems as though Ggradebook isnt under development anymore
<signifer123> ohhh....
<signifer123> are there any java gradebooks?
<smykes> I hope not ;)
<signifer123> why?
<smykes> because its java
<signifer123> *gasp*
<signifer123> this ins't that whole interpretted thing is it?
<signifer123> i like java :-p
<smykes> no its the whole slow and ugly thing
<signifer123> that would be the intterpreted thing :-P
<signifer123> sorry for not being specific
<signifer123> so you don't like python or ruby either?
<smykes> I wish I could find a grant to get myself a tablet for my classroom
<signifer123> lol
<smykes> that would be so handy
<signifer123> with projector :)
<signifer123> get the convertable ones
<smykes> oh god yes
<smykes> we have a projector in the school
<signifer123>  The AT&T Foundation provides grants to educational programs that use technology to enhance teaching and learning.
<signifer123> :-p
<smykes> think they'll buy me a X41?  :D
<signifer123> lol
<signifer123> yuo wish!!!
<signifer123> you*
<smykes> Id use it for teaching it would be great
<signifer123> our teacher got a free trip to japan for using touchscreens that all the students could interact with in his calc calss
<signifer123> class*
<smykes> wtf
<smykes> Id love a classroom full of macminis
<smykes> but apple doesnt do that unless you pay ;)
<signifer123> of course...
<smykes> they dont have grants I mean
<signifer123> i know what you mean ;)
<signifer123> my schools a bit spoiled we got all new 28 ghz dells last year
<signifer123> 2.8
<signifer123> not 28
<signifer123> that'd be crazy
<smykes> we dont do dell we do a small little maker in town
<smykes> im not sure why
<smykes> I try to stay out of it
<signifer123> good idea :-p
<signifer123> windows?
<signifer123> or linny?
<signifer123> or what?
<smykes> they were upset enough when I put ubuntu on one of the "good" machines
<smykes> they are working on a linux lab
<smykes> but we do run a lot of OSS
<signifer123> lol
<signifer123> linux lab will be all the ones they threw out right?
<smykes> pretty much
<signifer123> yeah thats what i figured...
<smykes> they are actually looking to go with dumb clients
<smykes> I dont know that the bandwidth is available for it but I try to stay out of it
<signifer123> hehehe i wish my school would use dumb clients
<signifer123> nvm changed my mind
#edubuntu 2006-02-03
<signifer123> can linux od shared drives for users novell style?
<smykes> dont know
<signifer123> do*
<smykes> Im out
<smykes> thanks for the help
<signifer123> k cya later man
<signifer123> hopefully
<signifer123> hey mhz
<mhz> hey signifer123 
<signifer123> what gradebooks does edubuntu have man?
<signifer123> :_p
<signifer123> hows life been?
<signifer123> :_p
<mhz> signifer123: sorry, I was on the phone
<mhz> GradeBooks?
<signifer123> yeah
<signifer123> like ggradebook
<signifer123> or opengrade
<signifer123> to hold student grade :_p
<signifer123> :-P
<signifer123> someone asked earlier
<mhz> nope, not default
<mhz> but available via APT or Synaptic
<signifer123> which ones on synaptic?
<signifer123> cya
<deang> could somebody point me in the direction to get the disabled screen savers enabled/installed in edubuntu?
<Burgundavia> deang, you want to know what is installed but not enabled
<Burgundavia> ?
<deang> Back, sorry.
<deang> In Screensaver Preferences, a good number of Display Modes are in grey (as opposed to black), with the preview window titled "Not Installed"
<Burgundavia> hmm, edubuntu uses the same screensaver package as ubuntu, so you might want to ask in #ubuntu
<deang> It was surprising, as I have seen the whole list enabled on my past Ubuntu usage.  I expected to be able to install them via Synaptics, but, for instance, the search for Gears didn't turn up a screansaver.
<aboe> I got a question for the edubuntu team
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, long time, no see
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: yep yep
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: been very, very busy
<highvoltage> working everyday of the week, whole day
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: at the moment i'm working a bit on tuXlab Xola
<highvoltage> it's currently pre-alpha, if you can call it that
<highvoltage> http://jonathancarter.ossn.co.za/projects/xola/index.py
<Burgundavia> highvoltage, cool thing. Can I make a suggestion as to the UI?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: of course!
<Burgundavia> I was initially baffled as to where the solution was
<highvoltage> i thought that might be a problem
<highvoltage> it's not that obvious that the text on the left is changing
<Burgundavia> If possible, maybe open another bubble on the right underneath the current one with the solution on eit
<highvoltage> hmmm... it's possible, but it's a bit space intensive
<Burgundavia> that makes it very obivious you have arrived at a solution point, and not a another question point
<highvoltage> i think i'll have to decrease the font size and penguin heads at some stage anyway
<highvoltage> yes, it does
<Burgundavia> oh, and you need a back button
<highvoltage> i know :)
<highvoltage> that's why its pre-alpha :)
<Burgundavia> maybe show a hierarchy of where they are in the problem tree?
<highvoltage> that's a very good idea
<highvoltage> i will bring that in on a later level
<Burgundavia> nuke one of the penguin heads and put it there
<highvoltage> eventually, I want a wiki style editor for the problem/solution tree
<highvoltage> so that the tuxlab help desk can maintain it
<Burgundavia> I would maybe expand the logo for tuxlaps, nuke the two large heads and use the logo to do the talking
<Burgundavia> then maybe have the two boxes inline vertical instead of horizontal
<highvoltage> on the local version on my laptop, i also now have a think bubble coming out of the red penguins head, with pictures of the stuff he's talking about
<highvoltage> that's also a good idea
<Burgundavia> but a very cool idea
* highvoltage copies and pastes all of this into a text file
<Burgundavia> why don't you just modify moin to do what you want to do?
<Burgundavia> hendrik might be able to help you on that, after all the main ubuntu website is currently in moin
* highvoltage is not sure how that would work
<Burgundavia> that gives you the editing right away
<Burgundavia> but it also allows you to restrict to a small group, via ACLs
<highvoltage> true
<highvoltage> moin is big though
<Burgundavia> ya
<Burgundavia> you really want to be able to distribute this easily, in a single flat file if possible
<highvoltage> it might be a bit overkill for something like this
<Burgundavia> because you need it in places that don't have constant internet access
<highvoltage> yes, at the moment it's one python script, one css file, and 4 images :)
<highvoltage> yes.
<highvoltage> a future version will probably use a sqlite database
<Burgundavia> how does it look at 640x480?
<highvoltage> currently it's all staticly coded
<Burgundavia> I imagine there must be a fair number of older monitors in ZA
<highvoltage> it looks horrible at 640x480
<highvoltage> we don't use anything older than 1024x768 in tuxlabs
<Burgundavia> ah, ok
<highvoltage> (or less, at least)
<highvoltage> if it's less than 800x600, we consider it broken
<Burgundavia> do you use new monitors?
<highvoltage> not at the moment
<highvoltage> we've used new monitors in about 3 labs so far
<highvoltage> it seems that new monitors and old monitors last just as long :)
<highvoltage> or at least, an old, good quality monitor is better than a cheapo new monitor
<Burgundavia> yes, I have an old 17" here that is about to be donated to someone, as it is a CRT
<highvoltage> you
<highvoltage> you're getting rid of all your CRT's?
<highvoltage> i do like lcd displays, nice and compact.
<Burgundavia> you can't buy them in NA anymore, except for a few 21"
<highvoltage> wow.
<Burgundavia> I don't think I have seen a new computer sold with a CRT for about six months
<Burgundavia> oh, and kill the blank background
<highvoltage> oh yes, the layout of the tuxlab troubleshooter will probably change completely by the time it reaches any kind of 'finished' state. what you're seeing now is still toying around, it's still in a bit of a conceptual stage :)
<Burgundavia> what distro do you guys use for the tuxlabs>?
<highvoltage> the black background is currently there because the penguins aren't whole, if you select all in the page you'll see that :/
<highvoltage> i'm waiting on the graphical designer to send me some nice pics
<highvoltage> currently, Ubuntu
<highvoltage> we plan to switch all the schools to Edubuntu after Dapper's release
<Burgundavia> so you could roll a .deb and have it preinstalled on all tuxlabs?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> when it's finished i'll change the logos a bit for edubuntu too
<Burgundavia> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/shaunm/2006/01/28/0 <-- I almost wonder if you could do this in docbook and yelp with less pain
<Burgundavia> saves you the development pain
<highvoltage> that's really cool.
<highvoltage> it would be nice to be able to make the troubleshooting tree in docbook, and then from there generate a bunch of html pages linking to each other
* highvoltage will investigate further
<Burgundavia> yelp has had some major improvments in spend of rending XML for the 2.14 release
<Burgundavia> chosing an existing technology would allow you to concentrate on creating the content
<highvoltage> true, but it might make things more complicated too, as pointed out earlier
<highvoltage> i want to keep it as small and customisable as possible
<highvoltage> but i will definately have to look at that docbook option, it might make things simpler too
<Burgundavia> there is also some cool things happening the XML in and out of moin space
<Burgundavia> that might allow you to develop in a moin wiki and ship periodic code drops
<juliux> hi highvoltage 
<juliux> highvoltage, it is possible that you give someonelese op here?
<Burgundavia> juliux, doesn't ogra have it?
<juliux> highvoltage, because we have for a few days here somebody who joins and quit over 20minutes and we had to ask the freenode people to ban him
<juliux> Burgundavia, no
<juliux> Burgundavia, only highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hmmm... let me check
<juliux>  /cs access #edubuntu list
<Burgundavia> if I have ops on a channel with one nick and I link another nick to it, does that give my other nick ops as well?
<highvoltage> geez, I can't remember my chanserv password
<highvoltage> i'll have to mail freenode on that
<highvoltage> juliux: i'll sort it out
<juliux> highvoltage, thanks
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o juliux]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> juliux: giving you ops until janeW and ogra are on the channel
<juliux> highvoltage, and what should i do then?
<highvoltage> i'll give them ops, so you don't have to do anything
<juliux> ah ok
<agente87> hello 
<highvoltage> hello agente87 
<flint_> highvoltage, hi  Jonathan 
<highvoltage> hi mr flint!
<highvoltage> you even got my name right
* highvoltage is duly impressed ;)
<highvoltage> flint_: how are you?
<flint_> I actually had to go and look it up :^) but I wanted to make an effort.  
<flint_> highvoltage, Johnathan, where can I get a copy of the TuxLab document?
<flint_> fuck... /jonathan!!! i meant!!!!
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> the original cookbook?
<highvoltage> one second...
<flint_> exactly,
<highvoltage> here it is: http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za/Members/jean/cookbook/docbook/cookbook.html
<highvoltage> would you like it in docbook?
<highvoltage> i could get it for you too if youlike
<flint_> spank you very much.  na, I want to print it and read it as you intended...
<flint_> wizzys and all
<jsgotangco> a lot of the introductory text are adapted from RMS material
<flint_> jsgotangco, that is not a bad thing...
* jsgotangco has read it from start to finish prior to writing the first attempt for an edubuntu cookbook
<jsgotangco> not at all
<jsgotangco> the docbook source is located at the tsf website though
<flint_> highvoltage, did you have a 'thang' going with Leonora van Staden
<flint_> ?
<flint_> I mean... it's sorta none of my business... but she did do a servicable job in illustration,
<flint_> you are a young man, and... one never knows about these things, and mayb one should not speculate...
<flint_> her art is quite original.
<flint_> highvoltage,  Jonathan?  Note this question was not supposed to piss you off...  I have completely forgotten if you are already married or whatever... (you get old and the memory goes second :^)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<flint_> jsgotangco, now easy there big guy, I was just asking a harmless (albiet personal) question....
<flint_> (LOL :^)
<flint_> jsgotangco, you do not think he is so offended that his rage has silenced  Jonathan's response do you?
<flint_> jsgotangco, like what do you know of this?
<flint_> :^)
<highvoltage> flint_: not that i know of. i might have been very drunk. who is she again?
<highvoltage> oh the illustrations :)
<highvoltage> jean jordaan got the girl to draw them up, i had nothing to do with it i swear!
<highvoltage> and you can ask me anything, i'm not easily offended :)
<highvoltage> oh, and i do happen to be single at the moment, you can't work the hours i do and maintain a girlfriend!
<flint_> highvoltage, jonathan, you are clearly the Dude...
<jsgotangco> how do you maintain a girlfriend? do you grease it ever so often or stuff?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: you spend time with her :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: if you don't, she yells and screams and eventually leaves you
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: last year, i had to choose between girlfriend and going to linuxworld
<jsgotangco> linuxworld is nice
<highvoltage> yep, it was great.
<highvoltage> omg is this the time already
<highvoltage> i think it's time that i go home
<highvoltage> goodbye everyone!
* mode/#edubuntu [+o jsgotangco]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: if you see ogra or janew around, just do an /op name please
<highvoltage> cheers!
<jsgotangco> heh why not just call chanserv :/
<jsgotangco> oh he left already
<juliux> jsgotangco, highvoltage fergot is chanserv password
<jsgotangco> oh great and he doesn't remember that i'm in +8 timezone
<juliux> so what
<jsgotangco> im about to sleep
<juliux> hehe
<flint_> hey jsgotangco what is an /op name?
<jsgotangco> oh he just meant i pass channel op to ogra or janew
<juliux> flint_, then you get op here
<flint_> juliux, suppose I want to shirk responsibility as I have my entire miserable life?
<flint_> juliux, I need to log the conversation with hivoltage.  This stuff is great!!!  How do I do it, besides cut and paste?
<juliux> flint_, there is a log in the internet of this channel i think
* mode/#edubuntu [+o \sh_away]  by jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> \sh_away, please op ogra or janew when you are back when you see them thanks
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
<jsgotangco> :)
<juliux> flint_, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/edubuntu-current.html
<juliux> flint_, there is a log file
<flint_> juliux, keep in mind I am EST.  The sun is just rising here...
<juliux> EST ?
<lucasvo> eastern standard time
<juliux> thxs lucasvo 
<lucasvo> must be somewhere india/asia
<lucasvo> or russia
<flint_> lucasvo, nah, much colder, Vermont USA.
<lucasvo> ho?
<juliux> flint_, how cold it is by you ?
<flint_> I have achieved the status of Political Refugee...
<flint_> Today Warm two days ago -5 F.
<juliux> moment i have to check what it is in celsius
<lucasvo> juliux:  google: -5 farenheit to celsius
<juliux> lucasvo, i have a wether applet
<lucasvo> ah
<juliux> lucasvo, an here we have 30 F and this is -1 Celsius
<flint_> Gentlemen, I have a wife, and now honeydos... gotta go. :^(
<lucasvo> flint_: why are you a refugee?
<juliux> cu
<lucasvo> cu
<flint_> Born in DC.  Left Holloween. Now in Vermont.  I have a personal problem with Military Facisism... call me a wimp.
<flint_> Gallaudet, the school for the Deaf in DC USA, has been using tty since forever.  Their prefered signoff is to send the abreviation os "Stop Key. Stop Key" or sksk.  I like this. 
<flint_> sksk
<crimsun> ...I missed something
<digitalnova> im a newb to nix.  I went into terminal, used sudo to create a win32 directory under /usr/lib  so i can put some ASF codecs for totem in there.
<digitalnova> ell , after i created the dir win32, i went into file manager, and the dir wasnt there?
<digitalnova> ls -ld /usr/lib/win32     gets me file dir not found
<digitalnova> but i can CD into win32
<jelkner> flint: you here, paul?
<lucasvo> my sister has problem with keyboard layout
<lucasvo> it is strange, it always changes to US again
<lucasvo> she can't turn on CHE in gnome
<MeeKs> anyone here
<steelballz> ogra: Are you on?
<steelballz> helpme
<MeeKs> im having trouble getting my wireless networking running with kubuntu
<MeeKs> it wont work wired either
<steelballz> helpme
<spacey> whats wrong steelballz 
<steelballz> Ogra was helping me yesterday trying to get ltsp to work on amd64 flight3
<steelballz> Nothing worked so I tried a full install of daily 20060116 i386 and no there either
<spacey> hmm, afraid thats to specific for me
<signifer123> hey
#edubuntu 2006-02-04
<flint> sksk
<mhz> tsktsk
<lguerra> ltskltsk
<mhz> lol
<br4indE4d> hello guys
<highvoltage> helllo br4indE4d 
<br4indE4d> can i ask a q?
<br4indE4d> bout this edubuntu
<br4indE4d> is there a live cd version of edubuntu? or is it a live cd ver?
<Burgundavia> there is a live cd version, but only for the development version
<br4indE4d> u mean the 6.04 version will be an installable live cd?
<Burgundavia> maybe
<br4indE4d> thanx for the info
<Burgundavia> currently the installable live cd is only targetted at ubuntu (and maybe kubuntu)
<Burgundavia> but there will be a live cd at least
<br4indE4d> and thanx also to the development team
<Burgundavia> do you currently use Edubuntu
<br4indE4d> live cd is a great way to introduce and attract people to try 'em
<Burgundavia> yes
<br4indE4d> no, not yet
<br4indE4d> actually i'm a newbie using knoppix
<br4indE4d> but edubuntu...i think i'm gonna love it
<br4indE4d> it's a first step to teach young ones about oss
<br4indE4d> gtg
<br4indE4d> thanx Burgundavia
<br4indE4d> bye all
<br4indE4d> n
<tatyana> hi, I'm using edubuntu and I get a notify that there are new updates available, but when I click install the install dialog appears for a second and goes away... every time
<tatyana> Any way to fix this?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [+o JaneW]  by highvoltage
* mode/#edubuntu [+o ogra]  by highvoltage
<mhz> Edubuntu in a Magazine for about 1000 schools in Chile... http://ubuntu-cl.org/Wiki/ArticulosPrensa?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ColegioInteractivo_Revista_gnu_linux.pdf
<juliux> hi mhz 
<juliux> mhz, do you have my text?
<mhz> juliux: hi there
<mhz> juliux: ooops, nope. (now I remember why I asked you to remind me about it... ;) )
<juliux> mhz, hm i need it until tomorrow becaue i have to translate it to german
<juliux> mhz, and i have to send it to the linuxtag people unitl the end of the week
<mhz> juliux: ooookiiissss
<mhz> I finish this little letter and I'll put my hands on it
<juliux> mhz, thanks
<littlepaul> ping mhz
<mhz> pong littlepaul 
<mhz> I read your email
<littlepaul> mhz :)
<mhz> however...
<littlepaul> mhz, is "however" the only feedback?
<mhz> I could not quite understand: a) you want me to write a book? (cool idea... but my wife will kick my butt if I dont generate incomes NOW)   b) you will write the book and need help ?
<littlepaul> a)
<littlepaul> mhz, this was just an idea
<mhz> littlepaul: i surely love the idea of writing a book in spanish
<mhz> and i would really like the idea of seeing it printed by Oreilly :d
<littlepaul> but you must generate incomes NOW - I got it
<mhz> littlepaul: yup, unfortunatelly
* mhz would prefer to keep doing things 'just because they're needed'
<littlepaul> I understand
<mhz> thx
<mhz> littlepaul: but who knows,... maybe tomorrow someone knocks on my inbox offering to pay for some services and then I get time to start a book :)
<littlepaul> :)
<welkin> 'Hi folks. I'm attempting to install Edubuntu. I am at the point where it's telling me to enter a real name, name, and password for a non-administrative user. After entering all this, it keeps sending me back to the original window - asking for a real name. Any ideas why it's doing this?
#edubuntu 2006-02-05
<bphar> OK...I am having a dickens of a time getting multiple users added, without entering each manually.  
<bphar> anyone know a shortcut or script?
<bphar> I would be happy woth a good example to go off of.
<mhz> bphar: yes
<mhz> there is a script
<mhz> let me get a url for you
<bphar> thanks
<bphar> I have read the wiki and googled, but only instructions and no examples on a code build
<bphar> I have been successful in entering the students, but the have no privileges or active accounts.
<bphar> I have to manually go back and set that, by the time I do that I might as well have entered them manually.
<mhz> bphar: http://www.tuxcomputing.com/cookbook/mass_useradd
<mhz> my guess is you should copy/paste that script, make it executable and run it by root
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> and/or you previously make a txt file
<bphar> thanks I will try and get back to you.
<mhz> your wellcome
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<JaneW> have you seen this? -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edubuntu
<juliux> JaneW, morning, do you have some special edubuntu marketing stuff? because we have an edubuntu/ubuntu booth on the cebit
<JaneW> ahh
<JaneW> juliux: sadly we have nothing...
<juliux> hm ok 
<JaneW> I am hoping we can get some promo material soon
<juliux> then i will try to make a little edubuntu flyer 
<juliux> JaneW, sorry but i have no to go to university
<JaneW> anyone been checking out distrowatch edubuntu is gaining :) we are now on the 6,3 and 1 month lists :)
<JaneW> ogra: have you seen this? -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edubuntu
<ogra> JaneW, nice :) !
<ogra> i only wrote the german entry ... didnt know there is a english one as well
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> hi ogra JaneW how have you two been
<JaneW> jsgotangco: good and you?
<jsgotangco> i'm sorry if i haven't been that much of help lately
<JaneW> jsgotangco: real life... we understand
<JaneW> jsgotangco: how's the job?
<jsgotangco> tiring
* jsgotangco is getting burned out
<JaneW> jsgotangco: p.s. your daughter is gorgeous
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> thanks
<jsgotangco> i still maintain an 8-5 job and still have to think on writing at night
* jsgotangco only got to do Kubuntu work lately
<jsgotangco> sabdfl will be here on thursday btw
<jsgotangco> i gotta go and get a haircut
<jsgotangco> brb
<mhz> Yagisan: ping
<Yagisan> mhz: pong
<JaneW> mhz: thanks for that article - any chance of a translation?
<Yagisan> JaneW: mhz did a runner ^^^
<JaneW> ack, didn't notice that, thanks
<JaneW> how's the haircut?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: pretty good i had it treated as well heh
#edubuntu 2007-01-29
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 2d 6h 57m 29s ago, quiting: Connection timed out
<RichEd> morning
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hey LaserJock ... doing okay ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: oh, really busy lately, but yeah
<nothlit> wheres that list of extra things edubuntu comes with
<LaserJock> nothlit: extra as in?
<LaserJock> stuff that's not on Ubuntu?
<nothlit> yeah
<nothlit> or a differential list
<nothlit> someone gave it to me before here
<LaserJock> hmm, well the seeds are probably the best to look if you are looking at packages
<nothlit> i remember it was a nicely formatted english page rather than a package list
<nothlit> you don't have to find it, i was just wondering if anybody knew it offhand
<LaserJock> hmm
<nothlit> http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu is pretty good too
<LaserJock> ah, that's the page I was just going to give you
<LaserJock> that's not it?
<nothlit> no
<nothlit> i think i found it on the wiki though
<nothlit> hmm nm
<nothlit> its ok, no biggie
<nothlit> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstalledApplications is pretty good too
<LaserJock> nothlit: although not accurate
<LaserJock> morning Pete
<highvoltage> Morning Pete and Jordan
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'Thanks, I'll send you the source if you're interested.  Still in development ;)' 17 hours, 23 minutes and 5 seconds ago (on Sun Jan 28 17:23:50 2007)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: botsnack
<edubuntugirl> thanks, highvoltage
<cbx33> heheh hi highvoltage
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> anyone else having problems accessing lists.ubuntu.com?
<humbolto> what is the best solution to get FAX support in ubuntu/edubuntu? faxing from each terminal, receiving fax in folders or via email, sending fax via email, ...?
<humbolto> is hylafax the standard?
<humbolto> or is this going to be replaced by asterisk sooner or later?
<highvoltage> humbolto: I think asterisk offers some hylafax integration, but afaik asterisk isn't planning on creating it's own fax server software
<highvoltage> humbolto: other than that, I'm afraid I can't really answer your questions, for help on hylafax, you're likely to get the best answers from #ubuntu
<highvoltage> humbolto: or even the ubuntu-users mailing lists
<humbolto> closed the chat window by accident. did I get a response already?
<RichEd> hi ogra ...
<RichEd> did lask week finish well at the sprint ?
<ogra> apart from me catching a horrible cold, yes ...
<edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'Hi dude, sent you email with source, will hopefully be available after 5 UTC, please SMS me ;)' 19 hours, 47 minutes and 42 seconds ago (on Sun Jan 28 17:24:26 2007)
<humbolto> hi ogra: my p133 thin clients are still a little slow even with 128mb ram. but mostly this concernes the logon procedure. the rest (except for video) is usable. the rest of my clients work like a charm!!!
<RichEd> ogra: hope you're okay ... lots of people picking up body bugs :(
<ogra> cbx33, sorry for yesterday, i had to stay in bed ... do you have time today ?
<ogra> RichEd, its ok ... i'm through the worst i think
<cbx33> ogra: hey dude
<RichEd> good
<ogra> humbolto, hey, great to hear !
<cbx33> ogra: it's ok.....
<cbx33> did you get my mail
<ogra> i agree that ldm needs some speedups, got that on my list for feisty<+1
<ogra> -<
<humbolto> ogra: the p133 client is only running some monitoring app anyway.
<ogra> cbx33, yep, just waeding through 900 mails here, i saw yours
<cbx33> heh, ithink i sent several ;)
<cbx33> even left you my mobile number ;)
<cbx33> haha
<ogra> i saw two ...
<cbx33> yeh that sounds about right
<cbx33> so when were you thinking today?
<humbolto> ogra: as I said before, you guys are right at the beat of your users hearts!
<cbx33> tbh you may need to take a look at the code before we chat
<cbx33> see what I've done
<cbx33> etc
<ogra> cbx33, i have a meeting at 12:00 UTC
<ogra> that should last 1h i think
<humbolto> I love this project!
<cbx33> humbolto: heh
<cbx33> so do we
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> ogra: I'm booked up till the 1st to work on TCM
<humbolto> things like the student-control-panel are just so much what the users NEEED!
<cbx33> so take your time, try it out....and give me some real BAM BAM BAM this is what I need
<cbx33> hehe humbolto we're just talking about that
<humbolto> You guys are reading minds!
<cbx33> it's called TCM now
<humbolto> ThinClientManager?
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> cbx33,your ssh questiojn:  while [ 0 ] ; do who; sleep 1; done
<cbx33> woh woh woh :p
<ogra> implement something like that into the backend ...
<cbx33> well it's already a gobject timer
<ogra> i.e. --remote-userlist
<cbx33> i can just change the frequency
<ogra> so the backend constantly throws out the userlist
<cbx33> are you looking at the code?
<ogra> then just connect the frontend permanently through the ssh tunnel
<ogra> nope, i'm still busy with my mail
<cbx33> ah ok
<humbolto> I have one question concerning the general edubuntu environment: What is the standard for FAX services in edubuntu?
<ogra> but that thing above is what came to my mind when i read your question
<cbx33> so is the frontend running on the server or the remote machine through ssh -x?
<cbx33> or similar?
<ogra> keep the connection open ...
<cbx33> ahhh i see
<ogra> the frontend runs on the client machine
<ogra> it execs: ssh -X scpuser@server scp-backend --constantly
<cbx33> ok.....when you take a look at that, perhaps you could help advise me on it ;)
<cbx33> yes i see now
<ogra> or something like thet
<ogra> *that
<ogra> if you need more functions and want to fork off a second backend proicess that should work fine through the same tunnel through a socket
<cbx33> I'm sure it would if I knew how to do it
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> remember I'm still a n00b at some of this
<ogra> ssh -X -S /tmp/.my-totally-cool-socket scpuser@server scp-backend --constantly
<RichEd> ping: ogra, rodarvus, willvdl - are we all available for our chat in 35 mins
<willvdl> sure
<cbx33> how do i then reference the socket in python?
<ogra> cbx33, now every command you use like: ssh -S /tmp/.my-totally-cool-socket server <command> will be execute3d through the socketz
<cbx33> ahh i see
<cbx33> dude you are a legend
<cbx33> the things you teach me
<ogra> not sure if there is qa direct python function, i must admit i never looked
<cbx33> not needed if it works like you say there
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> but you can use a pipe from the subprocess modules
<ogra> *module
<cbx33> to get teh stdout
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra> well, a direct function is always preferred
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> of course
<ogra> RichEd, sure i am ...
<RichEd> thankx ... that makes 2/4 and counting ... willvdl & rodarvus ??
<ogra> willvdl answered above
<cbx33> ogra: thanks for that
<RichEd> thanks ... didn't see that ...
<cbx33> ogra: if you cuold possibly take a look at TCM sometime today and give me feedback by tonight
<cbx33> I have time to work on it tonight
<cbx33> i don't want to waste it
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i'll look after t6he meeting
<cliebow> ogra:its working !!!!!!!!!
<cbx33> ogra: thank you
<cbx33> i really need this feedback
<cbx33> to get tcm ready
<cbx33> that will make the multiple server control done
<cbx33> just need to implement the front end
<humbolto> I know I need hylafax server (at least to receive faxes). do I need anz additional gnome components in order to be able to send faxes from EVERY app?
<cbx33> oh ogra i looked at the printing stuff on ltsp.org it could do with some tweaking.....do we support usb printers over LTSP or just parallel. I know you said serial was a problem no?
<ogra> there are surely some howtos how to set hylafax up as a cups network printer
<ogra> so you should only need to add it as a printer to get access from all apps
<ogra> cbx33, usb and parallel works fine
<ogra> and sbalneav has code for serial that he couldnbt test yet he said
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> when defining in lts.conf
<cbx33> I presume [ws001]  is the hostname of the workstation?
<cbx33> as it doesn't say that anywhere
<cbx33> if that is the case, how are hostnames assigned to workstations on ltsp?
<ogra> we usually work with MAC adresses there
<cbx33> ok so [00:00:00:00:00:00] 
<cbx33> then the printer lconf options?
<ogra> you have to set up a DNS server or to have a big dhcpd.conf if you use names ...
<ogra> right
<cbx33> right awesome
<ogra> look at the example lts.conf in the ltsp-client package
<cbx33> that's cool
<cbx33> I was checking outthe ltsp docs
<cbx33> not very clear there
<ogra> its installed in /usr/share/doc in the client chroot
<cliebow> ogra: thanks for the help..must have been wonky characters in root-path..cause when i did it over away she went
<cbx33> I have to make it watertight clear for the book chapter
<ogra> cliebow, so all your ppc's run fine now ?
<cbx33> ogra: when can i get a spec update?
<cliebow> i thin..i had an x prolem with one ibook..but mine at homme just worked
<ogra> a spec update ?
<humbolto> Uhhh, I did not find one single fax specification on launchpad. Maybe this is my chance to contribute something!
<cliebow> eadeon driver is good for alkl iboks?
<ogra> cliebow, yipiie
<cbx33> ogra: yes on the progress of specs....you said you were waiting till you had a meeting
<ogra> mine uses the ati one i think
<cbx33> in other words do I have to write about any more stuff for the book?
<ogra> but the X autodetection should care
<cliebow> dserves a W))T!\\
<cliebow> dserves a W))T!
<cliebow> ripes..you know
<cbx33> or a w00t
<ogra> cbx33, i can tell you after the meeting ...
<cbx33> ogra: awesome
<cliebow> THANK you
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> copy and paste is your friend ;)
<cbx33> ogra: that's awesome....can we set a time?
<cbx33> fo ameeting?
<cbx33> shall we wait till you have looked at TCM code?
<ogra> meetiung should end at 13:00 UTC ... so any time after that is fine
<cbx33> did you wanna have time to try and test some stuff...
<cbx33> we could meet a little later on
<cliebow> we bought out the ibooks from the laptop initiative so there are like 150 of them
<cbx33> 15:00? for 30 mins or so?
<cbx33> and then as I sa I have the whole evening to work on TCM today
<cliebow> i just have to get them to boot from windows dhcp 8~(
<cliebow> cbx33:when you need a tester  I'm game
<cbx33> cliebow: cool
<cliebow> ill need to get up to speed with bzr and such
<ogra> cbx33, sounds good
<ogra> cliebow++
<cbx33> ok 15:00 UTC sharp ;)
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> cliebow: that's easy
<cbx33> the windows dhcp booting
<cbx33> wnat a howto?
<cbx33> search the wiki
<cbx33> dhcp windows and you'll have one
<SiCk> hey everyone
<SiCk> :)
<cbx33> hey SiCk
<SiCk> i'm still stuck with my kiosk machine :(
<cliebow> cbx33: i have bondis...netvistas..pxe all running from windows..its the ibooks being little bastuds
<cbx33> ahhh
<cliebow> i started out with alternate dhcp
<cbx33> i see
<cliebow> so my proms are all set up that way
<cliebow> i had to add option 212 for the netvistas..i originally had option 43 for macs set globally but it seemed to inerfer with printing on the ibooks.. i nee to revisit that
<cbx33> sorry cliebow i only know about windows dhcp servers ;)
<paolob> Hi guys! I can't find the page that explain how to install edu- on ubuntu. Anyone could help me? thank you!
<ogra> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop edubuntu-server
<willvdl> ogra, what is the edubuntu-meta?
<ogra> andf then follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<ogra> willvdl, the source we build our metapackages from ...
<ogra> tehy read the seeds and create an empty package with dependencies
<paolob> ogra, thank you! You're always very kind!
<cbx33> willvdl: that t-shirt company still say they have received nothing from Canonical
<cbx33> are you able to check?
<willvdl> hmmm.
<willvdl> yip, I'll check quick
<paolob> ogra, I was wondering if in the edububut-desktop package is it worth to put all the graphic application witch on the client are very net-intensive... Using them on the client get the effect to almost freeze the server. Wouldn't it be better to let them as suggested?
<willvdl> cbx33, it has been sent in for payment last week so the chq should arrive shortly
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> willvdl:
<cbx33> thanks
<willvdl> sweet. liking the TCM btw
<willvdl> got more screenshots?
* willvdl checks the blog
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> don't think there are any :P
<willvdl> cbx33: http://tinyurl.com/2xxkga
<cbx33> nable to link
<cbx33> oop linking now
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i think esp for this school it's too early to tell
<cbx33> staff are still getting used to them tbph
<willvdl> the article is inflammatory
<willvdl> money wasn't wasted on the technology, it was wasted because they didn't pilot nor train anyone to use it
<willvdl> We get that here aaall the time :)
<cbx33> indeed
<paolob> Where do I specify the keyboard layout for the clients? thank you
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> ogra_: good for meeting?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> shoot
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> here or pm?
<ogra_> here indeed
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> so have you tried it now?
<ogra_> as long as it's not necessary to keep stuff confident we always should do it here, you know that
<ogra_> sorry, no ... to much aside yet unpacking it
<cbx33> do you think you could unpack it?
<paolob> ogra_, I've just reinstalled all the edubuntu server from zero, trying to remove the problem with the client that don't want mount the nfs. But everything is like before the reinstall: The first time I boot the clients, most of them boot up without problem, but if I switch them off and on again almost all have the nfs mount problem and don't boot. Now, till fifteen days ago all was ok, and now I have the problem. Couldn't be some package th
<paolob> at has changed and a bug has entered?
<cbx33> basically I would like you to see how it's working at the moment and then we can discuss it
<ogra_> cbx33, ok
<ogra_> whats scp-client vs scp-backend ?
<cbx33> ah
<ogra_> (i dont get the naming scheme, is that from the spec ?)
<cbx33> scp-backend is the backend function for the SSH ing
<ogra_> hmm
<cbx33> and scp-client is the client daemon that starts up with the users session
<cbx33> you wanted scp-backend to be student-control-pnel didn;'t you
<ogra_> probably s/backend/remote
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's cool
<ogra_> well, the backend should become a python module eventually and get iuntegrated into python-ltsp
<cbx33> can you see in the ltcm.py module
<ogra_> but that will cover more than only the ssh stuff
<cbx33> that's the one that does the cruft of he work
<cbx33> backend is merely a gobject.option interface
<cbx33> ltcm.py has all the functions and is the main importable module
<ogra_> class backend is also a naming scheme we must change
<cbx33> where?
<cbx33> explain
<ogra_> alwso dont forget that if you make it a python module it should include all the documentation in the code
<ogra_> so the python builtin help function works
<cbx33> ok...i can do that
<cbx33> that's not a problem
<ogra_> look at python-ltsp
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> its very simple
<cbx33> yeh yeh I was just going on functionality....sorry
<cbx33> i normally document all code well now
<cbx33> so...
<cbx33> looking at ltcm.py
<cbx33> can you see most function calls have a remote=False in the declaration line
<ogra_>  def register_plugins(self): is a nono
<ogra_> make itr a proper module and import it
<cbx33> it's only two functions does it really need to be a module?
<ogra_> the majoprity of poll_userlist should be in the module
<cbx33> it is
<cbx33> it's in ltcm.py
<ogra_> same for proclist
<ogra_> ???
<cbx33> ltcm.py is a module
<ogra_> so ltcm should be tzhe module ?
<ogra_> ah
<cbx33> it IS the module
<cbx33> student-control-panel is the real exe
<ogra_> wasnt clear from the code, sorry
<cbx33> no i know
<cbx33> sorry ogra_
<cbx33> next time I'll document better before we meet
<cbx33> so...
<cbx33> looking at ltcm.py
<cbx33> can you see the remote=False in most function decs/
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> basically if that is an ip address, then it executes it as a remote call instaed of a local call
<ogra_> dont make it a boolean then ;)
<cbx33> and that ip address is set in the TCM front end pacakge
<ogra_> either NONE or IP ;)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> sory yeh
<cbx33> it used to be a flag
<cbx33> your vnc function is a little b0rked
<cbx33> and i wasn't quite sure how it worked....also I havn't done any of the password stuff
<ogra_> a little ?
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> its not even a prototype
<cbx33> you said in the spec....that is was a fully working function
<cbx33> :p
<ogra_> yeah some SCP iterations ago
<cbx33> grrr
<ogra_> i will look into it ... subprocess should handle it fine
<cbx33> anyway I havn't done any of the stuff for like the vnc password for the x11vnc...
<cbx33> basically at the mo I'm passing a static password
<cbx33> how is the x11vnc gonna be started?
<cbx33> i was under the impression it would berunning all the time?
<cbx33> only other way I can think of is for TCM to start it via dbus when it loads?
<ogra_> we will start it from the ltsp-client initscript
<cbx33> right
<ogra_> so it will be running all the time
<cbx33> so you were saying something about the password changing in the spec
<cbx33> ok that's cool
<cbx33> how is this gonna work?
<ogra_> i have toi test that ... its three releases ago that i wrote that spec
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> well x11vnc works fine ;)
<ogra_> sorry but i cant goive you much of an answer about that right now without fiddling with it
<cbx33> i don't know how you want to handle the passwords....can i leave hat to you?
<cbx33> that's fine
<ogra_> so
<cbx33> basically it just uses a string
<ogra_> remove register plugins function from ltcm first and make it a proper module
<ogra_> how do you install it fromn the package ?
<ogra_> it should use python-central for that
<cbx33> install what?
<cbx33> oh....
<ogra_> well, the plugins should be registrered
<cbx33> i just tweaked our last package
<cbx33> oh the plugins nothing has changed since last SCP release
<cbx33> they are just simple python scripts with a register function placed ina cetian directory
<cbx33> it's still very primative
<ogra_> ouch, then i missed that in the last package
<ogra_> dont do that please ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> see python-ltsp
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> its still very enmpty, so it should be easy to copy from it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> I didn't know
<ogra_> what is thin-client-manager-backend apart from the modules ?
<cbx33> nothing
<cbx33> i didn;t know if I split it right
<ogra_> then call it python-something
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> to indicate its python modules
<ogra_> the split looks ok to me for now
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> now
<ogra_> you will only really know it once somebody else used it ;)
<cbx33> did you say that that is the setion that should be handled with python-central
<cbx33> or is that just the plugins to tcm
<ogra_> the python module stuff, yxes
<cbx33> right ok
<cbx33> I'll get python-ltsp
<cbx33> and check that out
<cbx33> ok what else
<ogra_> users.conf ?
<ogra_> does it need to be editable by an admin ?
<cbx33> can be
<ogra_> (whats the reason to put it to etc ?)
<cbx33> but is mainly administered by TCM
<cbx33> tre
<cbx33> put it in home dir you think?
<ogra_> (instead of /usr/share/...)
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> put it to /usr/share/python-modulename
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> usr/share
<ogra_> probably /usr/share/python-modulename/config/ or something such
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> ok...i know you don't like the icons
<cbx33> I'll sort those
<ogra_> thats trivial
<cbx33> anything else
<cbx33> what else did i write in the email
<ogra_> rfb is licensed properly ?
<cbx33> rfb/vnc/crippled_des are from the RedHat guys
<ogra_> seems like
<ogra_> please mention it in debian/copyright
<cbx33> who took it from py2swf?
<cbx33> I will of course
<ogra_> as well as yopurself
<ogra_> and change my entry to "Canonical Ltd."
<ogra_> EEEK
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> what have I done now
<ogra_> crippled_des.py isnt distributable
<cbx33> oh shikes you're kidding
<ogra_> please check the licenses carefully
<cbx33> that's ok...surely if we use plain text to auth
<cbx33> we can drop it
<ogra_> # Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software
<ogra_> # and its documentation for NON-COMMERCIAL or COMMERCIAL purposes and
<ogra_> # without fee is hereby granted, provided that this copyright notice is kept
<ogra_> # intact.
<ogra_> that will need an archive admin to check over
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> the at&t part abopve is more worrying
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<ogra_> if we could drop it that would be very helpful
<ogra_> hey sbalneav
<cbx33> ogra_: I'll try and test
<ogra_> it doesnt talk about rtedistibution at all
<cbx33> i wonder how py2swf do it then?
<cbx33> anyway...I'll try my best to drop that
<cbx33> so....
<cbx33> there is no regression, which I know you were scared about
<cbx33> I know I've cocked up a lot
<cbx33> but I will fix
<cbx33> this is why i wanted to meet with you....to find out all the stupid things I've done
<cbx33> and I'm thinking of putting the stuff i nthe package into two dirs
<cbx33> backend, server and client
<cbx33> three dirs
<ogra_> note that i didnt build and run it yet ;)
<cbx33> oh btw I just thought the dbus stuff and scp-client should go in backend
<ogra_> but if it works for you it should also work here :)
<cbx33> I know you didn't
<cbx33> it works here
<cbx33> but it is still flaky
<cbx33> I'm not going to lie to you
<ogra_> there was one bug about the userlist being broken, could you check to fix that as well ?
<cbx33> my task in the next 3 days is to spruce it up
<cbx33> oh?
<cbx33> in edgy?
<cbx33> i know of one bug
<cbx33> but it's trivial to fix
<ogra_> somehow all usernames starting with b are swallowed
<cbx33> urk
<cbx33> I will check that
<cbx33> oh yes
<cbx33> a few more things to check...
<cbx33> teacherturns on remote desktop
<cbx33> then runs TCM
<cbx33> they then "basically" just use the dbus start program fro client exec routine to run the vncviewer
<cbx33> to share their desktop in view only mode right?
<ogra_> who is "they"
<cbx33> teacher
<cbx33> throgh a nice interface...bascially it just starts the vncviewer/or equiv on the client session
<ogra_> why would they need dbus to start a loical vncviewer ?
<cbx33> this is the sharing one
<cbx33> Sharing Teachers Session - There will be the ability to allow students to watch a teachers desktop session.
<ogra_> oh, right
<ogra_> i didnt know we had kept that for feisty
<cbx33> it's in the spec
<cbx33> I think i've implemented everything except for the assistance applet
<ogra_> well, we had a longish meeting in the beginning where we defined in and out features
<cbx33> which was low anyway
<cbx33> right....so....
<cbx33> I'm pretty confident I can get most of that done tonight
<ogra_> i thought assistance applet and share desktop were off the list
<cbx33> the important code stuff anyway
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> if its in its in :)
<cbx33> i can drop it if you wish?
<ogra_> nah
<cbx33> assistance applet is on the wiki
<cbx33> but I'm canning it for now
<cbx33> too much implementation for now
<ogra_> as long as a basically working version is in until FF
<cbx33> SO!
<ogra_> fixing bugs is for after FF
<cbx33> if i get that done...
<ogra_> as welll as polishing
<cbx33> when can you fix up your vnc code and sort out testing for passwords etc
<ogra_> this week
<cbx33> you're sure?
<cbx33> :p
<ogra_> i have to hack a lot of ltsp stuff anyway, will do it in that session
<cbx33> I'll try and get my stuff out the way ASAP
<cbx33> will send you the dsc stuff
<cbx33> then you can hack away and send it back to me once you're done
<ogra_> there is nothing blocking me, dont rush, you did an awesome job yet
<cbx33> then we can have one last meeting hack the end bits up and get it in for FF
<cbx33> realy?
<cbx33> but imade so many mistakes
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> I'll try harder next time
<cbx33> was a little pushed this time
<cbx33> my last point if you have time... :p
<cbx33> this book chapter....when will you be available to have a look at that?  Again I want to make sure it's right.  Some of the stuff I have had no experience in, and need you to double check
<cbx33> that has a deadline for FF too
<cbx33> and jono said it would be better to get it in eaarlier than later
<cbx33> so I'm pretty much there
<ogra_> send it to me ?
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll spruce tonight o nthe car journey...check that's ok with the editor and send it to you
<cbx33> you'll probably get it tomorrow morning if it's good to go
<cbx33> almost 10,000 words of pure Edubuntu ;)
<cbx33> the kubuntu chapter is 12,000 so I'm not doing bad ;)
<ogra_> nice !
<cbx33> ogra_: I owe you big time
<cbx33> I think/hope that that is it
<ogra_> well, i can say the same in return :)
<cbx33> thank you so much for all your support
<cbx33> I know I screw up - but I'll sort it all out don't worry
<cbx33> anymore queries I will email you with later
<cbx33> trust me
<ogra_> ok
<cbx33> oh ogra_ specs?
<cbx33> which made it?
<cbx33> and which do I need to get info from you on
<cbx33> for the book?
<ogra_> edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound -> output works fine, volume control works so far (needs some more gnome love), mic -> probs i havent solved yet
<ogra_> so it will be in
<ogra_> ltsp-management-gui -> python-ltsp is ready so far, no gui work done yet ... planning to do that next weekend
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> student-control-panel-upgrade -> you know it better than me
<cbx33> cripes that'll be cutting it fine....I'l talk to my editor about ltsp-management-gui
<ogra_> edubuntu-network-auth-server -> will change a bit ... and not be a metapackage but a installer integration for noiw
<cbx33> I'm hoping she'll allow me to make changes after the first draft
<cbx33> ogra_: ok cool....when will I be able to get testing/screenshots done for that?
<ogra_> edubuntu-network-auth-client-> adding pam-ldap and pam-mount to the session should suffice
<ogra_> short before UI freeze
<cbx33> is that after FF?
<cbx33> what date?
<ogra_> ltsp-fat-clients-> derpends on edubuntu-network-auth-server we'll at least have a kiosk mode
<ogra_> ... see the schedule
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> ltsp-persistent-home dropped so far unless sbalneav jumps in
<cbx33> what is UI freeze?
<ogra_> moodle integration-> rodarvus hasnt sent any packages yet
<ogra_> itzs on the schedule
<cbx33> can't see UI....at all?
<cbx33> sorry for being thick
<ogra_> somewhere before the string freeze usually
<cbx33> ah ok
<cbx33> what does it stand for?
<ogra_> UI ?
<cbx33> yeh
<ogra_> its GUI) with a dropped G
<ogra_> :)
<cbx33> yeh thought so
<ogra_> user interface
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
<cbx33> it's not on there
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> seems we have none then
<cbx33> so a rough time estimate
<cbx33> ?
<ogra_> well until i'm told i'm not allowed to work on the UI anymore .-..
<ogra_> cnat tell yo8u+
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll tell my editor that
<cbx33> ogra_, one quick question
<ogra_> shoot
<cbx33> with the socket stuff
<cbx33> do i have to keep the connection open with that --continuously thing we talked about earlier?
<cbx33> or will ssh -S keep the socket open?
<ogra_> the app needs to be run with an endless  while loop
<cbx33> oh it does?
<cbx33> and then seperate calls can be made to the app down the same socket?
<cbx33> i see
<ogra_> thats why i gave you rthe code for it, yes
<cbx33> I have the code for the wocket stuff
<cbx33> think you could drop me the code again for the loop you proposed?
<ogra_> the socket is only used for the tunnel ... you can start any app you liek through it
<ogra_> thart was only a shell exampole
<ogra_> while [ 0 ] ; do who; sleep 1; done
<cbx33> thanks dude
<cbx33> and that will die gracefully when the ssh connection ends?
<ogra_> instead of the who command you will indeed need to return the userlist to stdout or some such
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that's fine
<ogra_> you could make it listen to stdin for a certain key to make sure the app finishes first
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> but it should as well die with the ssh conn
<cbx33> I'll do what I can
<cbx33> starting work....now!
<ogra_> great
<cbx33> have emailed my editor about the book too
<cbx33> hoping to get an answer soon
<cbx33> I'm not sure if we can remove the crippled_des
<cbx33> it seems it's integrated quite tightly into the auth process
<ogra_> we cant ship it
<cbx33> crap
<cbx33> ip filtering?
<ogra_> show it to someone from the ubuntu-archive team please
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> they should be4 able to make a better judgement on license stuff than me
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/feisty-serveraddon-i386.iso yay
<cbx33> oooh
<cbx33> so 2CD spec is done?
<cbx33> you didn't mention that one ;P
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ looks nice as well
<ogra_> sorry, to many meetings today ... i metioned it in one ... just not in the one with you
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra_> its not done yet
<cbx33> :p
<ogra_> the update-manager side is still missing
<ogra_> but we can build them :)
<cbx33> colin concurs.....we can't ship it as is
<ogra_> do you PM ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra_> try to do such stuff in the channel ... then others can see it as well
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> but thats what i expected
<cliebow_>  ogra: have any feel for arp reolution for netbbot?
<ogra_> arp resolution ? in what way ?
<cliebow_> that is what seems missing to get the ibooks to boot from win dhcp..
<highvoltage> hie hie
<highvoltage> I had to installe IE on linux for a client
<highvoltage> and one of the lines it shows during installation is:
<highvoltage>   Installing RICHED20
<cliebow_> highvoltage: heh
<ogra_> cliebow, arp resolution should already happen ... (how else would ethernet work) but i'm happy about patches :)
<cbx33> oh ogra....btw the call to the backend over ssh
<cbx33> will be a subprocess....
<cbx33> you were saying about having a seperate scp-user on each machine
<cbx33> right?
<cliebow_> ogra_:of course from linux it works awesome
<cbx33> would student-control-panel be running as root then, or as scp-user?
<ogra_> cbx33, exactly
<ogra_> run everything you can as scp-user ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra_> <- afk
<cbx33> I'm thinking of the calls...
<cbx33> ok
<Burgwork> with an scp-user, that would mean you could control thin clients or fat clients with one tool, no?
<highvoltage> 2007-01-29 kamion: serveraddon CD now being created in daily builds. Not
<highvoltage> much specific content yet, and we still need to add the gnome-app-
<highvoltage> install hooks.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: just saw that in my email
<Burgwork> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> lhey LaserJock and Burgwork
<highvoltage> s/lhey/hey :)
<cbx33> ogra_, you have to go ahead to look at the chapter ;)
<cbx33> I'll give a quick pass later and send you what I have
<cbx33> it is not 100% complete, nor has it been properly checked by me yet
<cbx33> it is not 100% complete, nor has it been properly checked by me yet
<cbx33> whoops sorry
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Pete
<cbx33> howz it going|
<cbx33> ogra having trouble with the groups over ssh
<cbx33> will get it though don't worry
<willvdl> eish I'm tired
<willvdl> eyes have gone square proofing screencasts, clips, videos etc for multimedia endless loop
<herc> anyone using edubuntu as a ltsp
<herc> anyone talking
<Burgwork> herc: what is your issue?
<herc> anyone using edubuntu for ltsp
<willvdl> herc, I think most of the edubuntu community use it in a thin-client environement
<Burgwork> willvdl: I have never, ever, actually installed Edubuntu or LTSP
<Burgwork> despite hanging out in this channel for over a year
<herc> kk
<Burgwork> herc: best to simply ask your question, rather than asking if anybody knows LTSP
<willvdl> Burgwork, good thing I said most :)
<Burgwork> heh
* LaserJock raises his hand
<willvdl> yes? There at the back?
<LaserJock> I've at least done Edubuntu workstation installs
<LaserJock> but no LTSP
<willvdl> Argh! That makes three of us!
<willvdl> what's LTSP?
<LaserJock> geeze, must be all the really knowledgable people are busy playing with their thin clients
<LaserJock> like, as in what does the acronym stand for?
<herc> lol
<Burgwork> laughing, terrifyingly smart people?
<Burgwork> that must be it
<willvdl> LaserJock, it's late and my humour fades when I'm tired
<LaserJock> I just wondered
<herc> i have a ltsp set up using thin clients for the high school but would like to set one up using edubuntu for the elementary
<willvdl> Look at the Time i Should P*#$ off ?
<LaserJock> lol
<willvdl> herc, cool. Have you tried it yet?
<LaserJock> hopefully sbalneav isn't watching this right now
<herc> no just installed it on a mac and now going to install on a server to see how they work together
<willvdl> got thin-clients?
<willvdl> OK, 21:56 SAST and it's time to go home. They will be worried.
<cbx33> phew ogra_ looks like remote stuff is basically done
<cbx33> reading and writing to config file was the worst
<cbx33> ogra_, do you have a sec?
<cbx33> ahh..nevermind
<Shaolin1> hi guys
<Shaolin1> need some help
<Shaolin1> how can I load a linux OS in a windows OS
<Shaolin1> I've seen it before
<Shaolin1> dont know how to do it tho
<herc> use a program like vmware
<cbx33> ogra_, how is the copyright holder of tcm?
<cbx33> who
<Shaolin1> ok - is vmware free ?
<LaserJock> Shaolin1: yes
<Burgwork> Shaolin1: in the beer sense, yes
<Burgwork> cbx33: the copyright holder is you, or ogra_
<Shaolin1> I dont drink :P
<LaserJock> Shaolin1: I have that problem too
<Shaolin1> lol
<Shaolin1> ok
<Shaolin1> I downloaded vmware player
<LaserJock> I took me a long time to figure out what free as in beer meant
<Shaolin1> now how do I configure it ?
<Shaolin1> ah lol
* SkirK_WorKSpacE va sotto la doccia con la sua paperella gialla
#edubuntu 2007-01-30
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders why he had a highlight here, but catn see himself referenced
<ajmitch> Kamping_Kaiser: subliminal messages?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ajmitch, perhaps so.
<cbx33> ogra_: changes are coming along nicely
<cbx33> hope to have them done today
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> ogra_: hey dude
<cbx33> can i include the config files required for the backend in the python-tcm package? with the module?
<SiCk> lo all
<SiCk> this place is dead today
<RichEd> "Mummy I see only SiCk people"
<RichEd> :)
<SiCk> :D
<cbx33> hey SiCk
<SiCk> hey cb, how's you?
<cbx33> yeh I'm good
<cbx33> and you?
<SiCk> yup, goin well, lots of stuff to keep me busy today in work
<SiCk> restoring a mysql database, trying to get edgy working with 40 thin clients etc.
<SiCk> funtimes!
<cbx33> how is it going with edgy and edubuntu
<cbx33> ?
<SiCk> meh.. so so, just upgraded to edgy from dapper
<SiCk> just finished installing, so just to drop the dhcpd over and install the custom kernel for the thin-clients and try again...
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> SiCk: do you use printing on the workstations
<ogra_> cbx33, for an usb printer set PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/usblp0 for the specific workstation (using the MAC adress) in lts.conf ...
<ogra_> on the client note down the ip from the ldm screen
<cbx33> thanks ogra_
<ogra_> log in and open gnome-print manager
<ogra_> select network printer
<cbx33> when you add the printer in gnome-print manager can use a MAC address to identify it?
<ogra_> select "HP jet direct" in the pulldown menu
<cbx33> sure
<ogra_> put the ip into the input fieold, leave the portnumber as is
<ogra_> thats it
<cbx33> but...
<cbx33> how do i find the ip?
<cbx33> and are the leases permanent?
<ogra_> read what i wrote ?
<cbx33> yes
<ogra_> pretty permanent ... i havent seen one change since i work on ltsp ... but then i only test with 5 clients max
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i have to describe to them in the book the easiest way to get the ip address
<cbx33> what do you suggest?
<ogra_> read what i wrote ?
<cbx33> oh and did you see my messages abotu that?
<cbx33> oh...yeh
<ogra_> <ogra_> on the client note down the ip from the ldm screen
<ogra_> <ogra_> log in and open gnome-print manager
<ogra_> <cbx33> thanks ogra_
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> I'm dumb
<cbx33> i missed that one
<ogra_> :)
<cbx33> Debra said it's fine to send you the book
<ogra_> great !
<cbx33> so I'll hopefully get that to you soon
<cbx33> it really needs a looking over before next week
<cbx33> think yo ucan do that
<ogra_> i hope
<ogra_> herd3 is ahead
<cbx33> yeh i know
<ogra_> and no trace of rodarvus who wanted to do most of it
<cbx33> it's only 10,000 words ogra_ ...
<cbx33> shouldn't take you too long
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> mwuhahaha
<ogra_> ??
<cbx33> sorry i was manically laughing at giving you 10,000 words of my drivel to read
<SiCk> cbx33, sorry i was away a minute, and no im not printing on the systems
<cbx33> ok
<SiCk> hey ogra :)
<ogra> yo
* SiCk starts up the thin-client on edgy this time
* SiCk crosses fingers
<SiCk> took your advice ogra :)
<ogra> good
<cbx33> ogra's advice is always good
<SiCk> thats because hes too smart for his own good ;)
<SiCk> p.s. i think i broke my installation :(
<SiCk> haha
<SiCk> tftp file not found... are there file differences between dapper dhcpd.conf and edgy?
<ogra> no
<SiCk> hmm, i maybe installed that custom kernel wrong...
<ogra> did you put it into /etc/ltsp ?
<SiCk> i followed all the directions you'd given
<SiCk> it worked on dapper.. just not this time
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> with herd 3 I can do an install and then check the book stuff
<SiCk> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -i /tmp/linux-image-2.6.15-27-386_2.6.15-27.50_i386.deb
<SiCk> sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<SiCk> after downloading it of course
<SiCk> it seemed to do all that without a hitch though
<ogra> hmm, why did you do that ?
<SiCk> because remember the thin-clients i had wont boot off a normal kernel, only the one that was made for that mad via eden processor
<SiCk> someone in #ubuntu-kernel
<ogra> ah, right i forgot
<ogra> did you install ltwsp-server-standalone ? or only ltsp-server ?
<SiCk> server just
<ogra> aha
<ogra> install -standalone
<ogra> it  adds the missing bits and pieces
<SiCk> ahh, ill do that now
<ogra> things like a tftp server for example :)
<cbx33> hahah
<SiCk> hmm, aparently it's installed and the newest version...
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
<ogra> try that
<ogra> should return a line not starting with "#"
<SiCk> 2 lines
<SiCk> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<SiCk> oh, 1 line, just stretched
<ogra> ok
<ogra> ps ax|grep inetd
<ogra> should return /usr/sbin/inetd
<SiCk> 4007 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
<ogra> at least
<ogra> ok
<ogra>  ps ax|grep dhcpd ?
<SiCk> 10605 pts/1 R+ 0:00 grep dhcpd
<ogra> nothing else ?
<SiCk> nope
<ogra> aha
<ogra> your dhcp server isnt running then
<SiCk> though dhcpd3-server is stopped at the moment
<SiCk> heh
<SiCk> i run it before i boot the clients, but its on a shared connection with another dhcp server at the moment, so i've got it stopped
<ogra> start it and check again with the ps command as above
<SiCk> okay
<ogra> nope, that wont work
<cbx33> SiCk: what's the other dhcp server?
<ogra> you cant run two dhcp servers in one network if you want to netboot
<ogra> (you can but thats a very very tricky and complicated setup)
<SiCk> i know, we're working that out later.. i might be throwing them all on a vlan or whatever
<SiCk> at the moment they're connected tdo eachother
<SiCk> and now i have the 2 lines ogra with dhcpd3 running
<ogra> than it wont boot
<ogra> *then
<SiCk> cbx33: its a windows dhcp server, our DC
<SiCk> ogra: we'll be discovering all that once we get the thin-clients booting
<cbx33> you can get the windows dhcp to server the addresses
<ogra> you will have to make them boot off the windows server
<cbx33> SiCk: that's easy
<cbx33> there's a howto I wrote on the wiki
<ogra> and shut down the dhcp server on the linux machine
<SiCk> cbx33: yeah i saw the wiki the other day on it... you posted a link to someone else
<SiCk> but at the moment we just want the clients going as well as they can.. and they aint *sniff*
<SiCk> everything on the ltsp server seems fine
<cbx33> SiCk: but they will do....if you use the dhcp server
<SiCk> i am, at the moment the client is connected to the ltsp server with a crossover
<SiCk> the client is getting the IP's and everything
<cbx33> ahh i see
<SiCk> just getting PXE-E3B: TFTP Error - File Not Found
<SiCk> sorry, i know im confusing. haha
<cbx33> try logging in with tftp maunally and gertting the file then
<SiCk> ill try that now
<capt_kirk> Hi all
<capt_kirk> Anyone know if thin client printing (attached to the thin client's lp0) works in Edgy?  I'm about to test it out, but didn't want to take down our computer lab if there's some hidden bomb in the Edgy implementation.  I've read a couple of threads that say ogra is looking at how to best implement it, but I'm wondering if modifying lts.conf per the LTSP 4.1 documenation will work.  Thanks.
<capt_kirk> ogra: are you at your computer?
<SiCk> cbx33, i've tftp'd to the computer, what file would i be getting?
<SiCk> i've had a complete mindblank
<willvdl> urk, my quit/restart buttons are gone
* willvdl wonders where he left them last
<cbx33> SiCk: well....
<cbx33> I can't remember the specifics but
<cbx33> you are tftping into the root of the tfpt server
<cbx33> right?
<cbx33> check the tftp inet.d file to see what the root is
<cbx33> or if ogra is around he'll shout it out I'm sure
<cbx33> then basically you want to
<cbx33> get dir/filename
<cbx33> that make sense?
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> hey
<willvdl> ever played with dvd ripping?
<cbx33> yes
<willvdl> need to cut a section from a dvd into an ogg or mpg
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> what tools you use?
<cbx33> ooh ooh search for....
<willvdl> dvd::rip
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> that too is awesome
<willvdl> eek, but it has a lot of "options"...
<cbx33> s/too/tool
<willvdl> what do you use?
<cbx33> it does but they really don't take a lot of getting used to
<cbx33> I use dvd::rip
<willvdl> ah. what video format/codec etc. would be best quality?
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> i used avi
<willvdl> divx5? xvid?
<cbx33> xvid
<cbx33> i think
<willvdl> I'll google it  but I think you're right
<willvdl> and for editing the avi?
<cbx33> um....well...
<cbx33> I then take it into either kino
<cbx33> or avidemux
<cbx33> depending on what I'm wanting to do
<willvdl> just want to cut off head and tails
<cbx33> either then
<willvdl> cool. knew you would know :] 
<willvdl> you're timing is impeccable!
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I try willvdl, I try :p
<willvdl> how's tcm?
<cbx33> yeh getting better all the time
<cbx33> cleaning up the package tonight for ogra to take a look at some of the management specifics in the week
<willvdl> cool
<cbx33> also shipping him over the book chapter for a run through
<willvdl> nice. look forward to that
<cbx33> yeh, we have a bit of problem with tcm
<cbx33> but I'm hoping it'll get solved soon
<cbx33> it's a license issue
<cbx33> crippled_des.py from redhat's virtual manager, isn't GPL compatible
<willvdl> "beautify" the code
<cbx33> but both red hat and pyvnc2swf give it away as GPL
<willvdl> that's what I'd do :)
<cbx33> heheh
<willvdl> I'm curious, what do you use vnc for in TCM?>
<cbx33> the backend code from pyvnc2swf :p
<cbx33> i didn't have time/nor the knowledge at this stage to write one myself
<willvdl> to "spy" on the thin-clients?
<cbx33> however, next release, I may write my own slimmed down vnc server
<cbx33> we use x11vnc at the mo
<cbx33> or will do
<willvdl> for what purpose though?
<cbx33> spying
<cbx33> and also working the other way, so that staff can show their screen to many clients
<willvdl> ah. Is it not possible to jsut grab the framebuffer?
<cbx33> well not directly from python i fear
<cbx33> i would have to write a library to do it
<cbx33> basically, to view the clients in the tile view, we don't need a full on vnc server implemntation
<cbx33> so I aim to make another server
<willvdl> just thinking
<cbx33> as I don't think vnc can do what we need
<willvdl> cause it all runs on the server
<cbx33> ah not x11vnc
<cbx33> that runs on the client
<cbx33> i know what you're thinking
<cbx33> Jordan said the same
<SiCk> ogra... you around?!
<cbx33> SiCk: did that work?
<SiCk> did what work? sorry i had to run for an hour
<cbx33> hehe the tfpt
<SiCk> will it work the same if i log in tftp on the same machine and connect to itself?
<willvdl> cbx33, dvd::rip failed to init encoder. must be missing a library here
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> SiCk: yes
<cbx33> just connect to 127.0.0.1
<SiCk> ill try it when it boots here
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> duh, no gstreamer codec isntalled
<cbx33> heheh
<SiCk> cbx33, any idea why my edubuntu install might've just started going extremely slow
<bddebian> Heya
<SiCk> after a reboot of it its taking like 2 - 3 minutes to open a terminal window
<SiCk> still waiting for it to browse files
<SiCk> once it opens them its fine... its odd
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I have had something like that
<cbx33> what does the top command show?
<SiCk> Xorg and Init are at the top
<SiCk> using quite a lot
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> nothing ese?
<Shaolin1> hi guys
<SiCk> not really
<SiCk> nothing using alot
<Shaolin1> how can i install ssh/sftp
<SiCk> cbx33, where would my tftpd inet.d file be kept?
<SiCk> oooograaaah :)
<SiCk> i broked it :(
<SiCk> haha
<willvdl> cbx33, dude it works niiice. You're right about the options though...not so daunting
<cbx33> willvdl: nah...you just gotta look at them carefully ;)
<cbx33> just reading the full BECTA report on vista and office 2007
<cbx33> this is our year
<cbx33> Ubuntu/OSS
<cbx33> this could be the M$ killer this year
<willvdl> link?
<willvdl> I read the interim report
<cbx33> yeh taht's what I read
<cbx33> the full interim report
<cbx33> 20 pages
<cbx33>                                            Bectaconsiders that educational institutions shouldonly consider deploying Office 2007 when theyare assured of its interoperability withalternative products including free-to-useproducts such as OpenOffice.org.
<cbx33> that;s good news
<cbx33> byeee all
<ShankarGanesh> hello there
<ShankarGanesh> any cool edubuntu artworks?
<RichEd> hi rodarvus
<rodarvus> hey RichEd
* SiCk waves
<cbx33> hey SiCk
<cbx33> howz it going
<cbx33> ogra, just looking at the python ltsp stuff now
<SiCk> it isnt.. heh
<SiCk> :)
<SiCk> yourself?
<cbx33> you got two secs for a question
<cbx33> SiCk, just pacakging up tcm again
<SiCk> ah, yeah i noticed ogra mentioning you not able to package something in yesterday?
<SiCk> copyrights and whatnot
<cbx33> oh yeh I'm still waiting on the that one
<cbx33> I'm looking at the python-central stuff at the moment
<ogra> cbx33, shoot
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well,
<cbx33> the python-tcm pacakge
<cbx33> needs to include a conf file for dbus and the scp-startup file etc
<cbx33> is that ok to be included in there
<cbx33> as the python-tcm pacakge should just be the module right?
<ogra> do you really need it in there ?
<cbx33> but the actual backend system requires more
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> dbus config is backend
<ogra> the conf file is for grouping which you only use in the gui
<cbx33> it's not handled by front end
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> not the dbus conf file
<cbx33> and the scp-remote
<cbx33> and scp-client
<cbx33> they are all backend
<ogra> i'm talking about the conffile
<cbx33> non-gui generic
<capt_kirk> Anyone know if thin client printing (attached to the thin client's lp0) works in Edgy? I'm about to test it out, but didn't want to take down our computer lab if there's some hidden bomb in the Edgy implementation. I've read a couple of threads that say ogra is looking at how to best implement it, but I'm wondering if modifying lts.conf per the LTSP 4.1 documenation will work. Thanks.
<cbx33> well, the conf stuff is actually non-gui generic
<ogra> scp-remote and scp-client are apps, they shouldnt be in the module package
<cbx33> so where hsould they go?
<cbx33> we need three pacakges then
<ogra> seems like
<cbx33> module, backend, frontend
<cbx33> you ok with that?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> ok I'll work up that now
<cbx33> i think i sorted most out
<cbx33> some stuff will need to wait for you to fiddle and test before it gets confirmed
<cbx33> ie the controls are in just not the confirmed command
<ogra> thats fine
<cbx33> ok I hope to get this and hopfully the book to you tonight
<cbx33> then I can relax for a day
<cbx33> phew
<ogra> capt_kirk, edgy uses the same printing mechanism as ltsp 4.1 did
<cbx33> right off to do some packaging, some packaging, some packaging....goes old motu song
<ogra> due to the fiddly licensing situation with lp_server we needed to kick it out though ... and a python based replacement is in feisty
<cbx33> is it still called lp_server?
<ogra> nope, the new implementation is called jetpipe
<capt_kirk> ogra, thanks!  I'll give it a shot.  Great work on Edgy, by the way.  Much better thin-client experience that Dapper.  I have two labs up and running at the two schools I'm supporting.  Local devices are a huge help.  Thank you from 200 users.
<cbx33> ogra, ok...there's one change for the book already then ;)
<cbx33> capt_kirk, do you use student control panel?
<ogra> capt_kirk, thanks, such a feedback is invaluable :)
<capt_kirk> cbx33, I've played with it some, but only in passing.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hoping it'll rock for feisty
<cbx33> ogra, am I right in thinking all three binary packages can be built from this one source?
<cbx33> or should the module be split?
<capt_kirk> i've also played a little with LTSP Manager.  Really looking forward to it working like the use cases in the spec.
<capt_kirk> That would be very useful.
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> cbx33, its fine to build it from the same source for now
<cbx33> ogra, btw if you need a hand with that....
<ogra> might make maintanance easier
<cbx33> testing ui hacking just shout
<cbx33> ogra, ok cool
<capt_kirk> I wish I had time to help with the development, but at this point I can only be a casual tester
<cbx33> capt_kirk, that's still so valuable
<cbx33> will you be able to test feisty?
<capt_kirk> cbx33, thanks.
<cbx33> in it's beta stages?
<ogra> cbx33, https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+branch/ltsp/feisty-ltsp-jetpipe btw
<cbx33> that would be awesome....as you know how to install/configure for site deployment
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<capt_kirk> i've lost track of the timing for feisty.  when should it be in beta?
<cbx33> um....fairly soon
<cbx33> featuer freeze is 8th feb
<ogra> we'll release the third milestone CD this week
<cbx33> that's gona be awesome
<ogra> from mid feb on it should be intresting to test it ... :)
<cbx33> ogra, I'll install that hopefully once released to check TCM works on it
<capt_kirk> I should be able to.  We leave Tanzania and go back to the States in July, and I lose my labs then.  (I'll set one up at home for the kids when we get back home.)
<cbx33> right ogra I'm gonna let you get on with things and stop interrupting you and get on with this packaging
<cbx33> you around if I get stuck?
<capt_kirk> cool.  Yes, I can probably test.
<cbx33> capt_kirk, that'd be awesome
<ogra> cbx33, indeed
<cbx33> thanks dude
<ogra> yeah, that'd be great
<ogra> we need every helping hand with testing
<capt_kirk> One comment from dapper-edgy upgrade experience, it really sucked.
<ogra> in which area ?
<ogra> and how did you upgrade ?
<capt_kirk> it really messed up the one lab that was running dapper.  I know the advice was to do a clean install, but I did a dist-upgrade to try to avoid rebuilding everything.
<capt_kirk> The other lab was a clean Edgy install and it went great
<ogra> the only advice for a clean install goes for ltsp ...
<ogra> you should be able to upgrade fine
<capt_kirk> Over Christmas break, I did a clean install on the messed-up lab, and it's all good now.
<ogra> if not, thats a bug that needs fixing
<capt_kirk> It seemed to be a LTSP problem
<cbx33> ogra, am I author for tcm or is it you?
<ogra> for debian/copyright ?
<capt_kirk> should I have un-installed LTSP and reinstalled it after doing the dist-upgrade?
<ogra> nope
<capt_kirk> just a clean install from the start?
<ogra> but you should have wiped /opt/ltsp/i386 and done a sudo ltsp-build-client
<capt_kirk> ahh
<ogra> but that doesnt affect the server at all ...
<cbx33> ogra, for debian copyright and for setup.py
<ogra> and shouldnt break on upgrades
<capt_kirk> it also wiped out the x server on the main box, but I probably could have hacked it back to working.  I wasn't in the mood to deal with xorg, so I just did a clean install.
<ogra> cbx33, us both as authors, my part is Copyright Canonical Ltd. 2005
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> yours is all the rest :) (2006/7)
<capt_kirk> will Feisty also need a ltsp rebuild?
<ogra> i try to avoid that
<capt_kirk> cool
<ogra> i need the pulseaudio trasition properly going though ...
<capt_kirk> do you think the beta will be mature enough to test in a live lab?  (I know all of the warnings, but there's the warnings and there's reality.)  I don't have any extra boxes to do a separate test on.  Dev labs aren't a real high priority in Tanzania.  I'd be happy to test in one of the school labs if it's fairly mature.  I don't mind a few bugs, just not a system that will require hourly reboot.
<cbx33> ogra, should the vnc.py and rfb.py stuff go.....where?
<ogra> gui ?
<cbx33> they are only pertinent to the gui package
<cbx33> but they are placed in the /usr/lib/python2.4/site-pacakges/studentcontrolpanel/ dir
<cbx33> is taht still ok?
<willvdl> cbx33, do you think it matters if the OGM/AVI is interlaced or not?
<cbx33> hmmm are you having problems with kino reading it?
<cbx33> if so, search my blog, it has an mencoder command line that will sort convert it to the right format
<willvdl> kino takes DV files
<cbx33> no it doesn't
<willvdl> avidemux can edit it
<cbx33> :p
<willvdl> mencoder will convert it to what format though
<cbx33> avi
<cbx33> kino can import them trust me
<cbx33> so ogra is that still ok ? ^^^
<willvdl> well, I find that avi or ogg won't make a difference. Just the container, codec is still xvid and only the audio is affected
<ogra> just make sure to depend in python-tcm
<ogra> *on
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that's what I've done
<cbx33> and i can just dump them there, instead of setup.py python-central installing right?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i would use python-central ...
<cbx33> GAAAAHHHH!!!
<ogra> with dh_pycentral
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> :(
* cbx33 will try
<ogra> just make the gui depend on it ...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> the gui already does
<ogra> dh_pycentral will add its stuff to the ostinst ...
<ogra> *post
<cbx33> so are you saying lump them into the python-tcm package now?
<ogra> no
<cbx33> or have a seperate entry in the setup.py for the other one
<ogra> i say leave them in the gui and use pycentral there
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I've never ever done that
<cbx33> I'll try it and if I get stuck I'll shout for help
<ogra> man dh_pycentral
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I'll get it
<cbx33> you know it
<cbx33> ogra, looking at it, the code that is AT&T copyrighted, is a simply modification that was made....is there a change we can beautify it as willvdl put it, to get round the issue?
<willvdl> Hey, don't quote me on it :)
<ogra> if you know exactly which code it is you could replace it ...
<ogra> but dont miss a bit
<cbx33> willvdl, hehe
<cbx33> ok I'll see what repy I get first
<cbx33> and we'll see what happens
<cbx33> we NEED DES
<ogra> what about python-crypto ?
<cbx33> there was a mention about it...I will have to check it out
<ogra> it seems to provide DES
<cbx33> i think there was a problem with it
<cbx33> will check later
<cbx33> after I try this INSANE pacakging
<cbx33> i think ogra is trying to melt my brain permanently :p
<willvdl> cbx33, kino doesn't like xvid
<cbx33> search my blog
<cbx33> ang on I'll link you
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=168
<cbx33> check that out
<cbx33> replace the input.flv with your avi file
<cbx33> it will wrap it up nice so that kino uses it
<willvdl> ripping from dvd/vob
* willvdl looks
<cbx33> that should take any video and make it useable in kino
<willvdl> heck even kaffeine only plays audio track. VLC plays fine but is dirty
<cbx33> oh dear
<willvdl> hmmm, must be a kde thing, linking the plugins to the apps
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> I don't use kde
<willvdl> works fine on gnome, just some movement noise. going to try interlacing it
<willvdl> oh
<cbx33> oh?
<ogra> cbx33, http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/pycrypt/pycrypt.html
<ogra> should be easy to replace
<cbx33> ok will look into it
<cbx33> having packaging nightmares at the mo
<capt_kirk> ogra, one other thought from the field: is there a way to make the chroot get it's packages from the main root?  Whenever I update the chroot, I end up downloading many of the same files I've already downloaded to the main root.  That wouldn't matter at home, with real broadband, but in Tanzania with 3-4 KBps at top, it can mean several extra hours of download.
<ogra> capt_kirk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins ... one could write a plugin that --bind mounts /var/cache/apt/archives to $ROOT/var/cache/apt/archives ;)
<ogra> LaserJock, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/
<LaserJock> a whole 7MB :-)
<ogra> tuxtype ... as a testpackage
<LaserJock> Server and Server Add-on
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> I think I like that switch
<ogra> live is desktop now
<LaserJock> nice
<willvdl> ogra, maybe we can ditch CD 2 and replace with a few stiffies? :)
<LaserJock> ogra: so you haven't move KDEEdu or gcompris, etc. from the first CD?
<cbx33> LaserJock, got a sec for a packaging question
<ogra> not yet
<ogra> the archive is frozen
<LaserJock> ogra: is that just a matter of a seed change?
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> cbx33: what's up?
<cbx33> ogra has been helping me....but I keep interrupting him...so i thought I'd give him a break now
<cbx33> and bug you instead
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> my source pacakge has three binaries
<cbx33> two of which require pycentral installation
<cbx33> my pacakges build ok now
<cbx33> but none of the python module stuff is transferred
<cbx33> dpkg -c on the resulting pacakges shows no transfer
<cbx33> did I just kill LaserJock
<cbx33> damn and i just killed ogra too
<cbx33> willvdl, looks like you're next
<cbx33> howz your packaging :p
<willvdl> my packaging will kill you :)
<willvdl> try highvoltage?
* willvdl has never packaged a thing in his life...and hopes never to either
<cbx33> hheh
<LaserJock> cbx33: back, sorry
<LaserJock> I'm supposed to teach this afternoon
<LaserJock> but I just found out I might not need to
<LaserJock> cbx33: what is dpkg -c giving you?
<cbx33> none of the files that python-central should install
<LaserJock> no .py files get installed?
<cbx33> nope
<LaserJock> does the source use a setup.py?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but that needs to serve two binary pacakges
<cbx33> as two of my binary pacakges from the one source require python-central
<ogra> moquist, ping
<LaserJock> cbx33: you can use <binarypackagename>.install to direct installation I believe
<cbx33> no
<LaserJock> and you might need to give py_central a flag
<cbx33> i used to do that
<LaserJock> ogra: I have a conference this week, but when I get back (and Herd3 Freeze is over) I'll work on MIRs
<LaserJock> the recursive dependecies are a pain though
<LaserJock> when I look at what the package I want deps on some of them are in Universe too so I need to MIRs for them
<cbx33> LaserJock, do you have any more info
<LaserJock> cbx33: hard to tell without actually looking at the package
<cbx33> LaserJock, sorry dude
<willvdl> cbx33, what does your kino setup output? what format?
<willvdl> I use avidemux and I get video but no sound...
<cbx33> umm.....avi i think
<willvdl> hmmmm
<cbx33> sorry willvdl I'll take a lok if I get this package done ;)
<willvdl> not a problem. it's jsut a matter of me getting the settings right
<cbx33> i think so yes
<cbx33> LaserJock, what you said above sounds reasonable
<cbx33> where do i find more info?
<cbx33> ogra, does your setup.py actually ever get run?
<cbx33> don;t you need a line like           python$* setup.py install --root $(CURDIR)/debian/python-foo
<cbx33> LaserJock, around?
<LaserJock> cbx33: sorry, was actually taking with a researcher here who just installed Ubuntu
<cbx33> excellent
<LaserJock> he's a computer newb
<LaserJock> but he loves Ubuntu
<cbx33> do you have time to help me out with some pacakging?
<cbx33> AWESOME
<LaserJock> yeah, he even said the install wasn't hard
<LaserJock> and his printer worked
<LaserJock> he's Bulgarian and was really impressed that he could use his computer in Bulgarian
<LaserJock> he thought Ubuntu had to be a UN project
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> because how else could something this good be free
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> cbx33: can you put the package up somewhere real quick?
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> mail it to you?
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> i have a place
* bdoin is away: Away
<cbx33> LaserJock | pm
* bdoin is back (gone 00:04:19)
<Burgwork> bdoin: please turn off your away messages
<willvdl> cbx33, stuff seems to work with AVI's but not OGGs. Kino struggles though to import but avidemux works fine for splitting (you lose the sound with OGGs but not with AVIs).
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> I find it odd since they both use the same xvid codec. must have something to do with the sound overlay
* bdoin is away: Away
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> the muxing
<willvdl> cbx33, pity, I would like to work with OGG/Theora purely from a purist POV
<cbx33> yeh
* bdoin is back (gone 00:12:35)
<cbx33> bdoin, please turn away messages off
<g333k_work> Hi, do you know a way to send popups messages to my clients?  (Beside fl_teachertool, I've tried it but it is not working for me)
<cbx33> g333k_work, student control panel
<g333k_work> cbx33, does it work with ltsp 4.2?
<cbx33> should do
<cbx33> what are you on
<cbx33> dapper?
<cbx33> edgy?
<g333k_work> cbx33, edgy + xfce + ltsp 4.2
<cbx33> should be good to go
<g333k_work> cbx33, where do I have to get it from?
<cbx33> um...
<cbx33> sudo apt-get install student-control-panel
<g333k_work> cbx33, I thought that the s-c-p in the repo was for ltsp 5
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> I'm not sure then
<g333k_work> :s
<cbx33> i wrote the s-c-p in edgy
<cbx33> but for the ltsp in edgy
<cbx33> I'm not sure what changes there are tbh
<moquist> ogra: pong
<moquist> ogra: but I'm in class. I'll try to keep an eye in here occasionally, but an email will be best.
<ogra> ok
<cbx33> ogra, I've done it
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> ogra the setup.py file in your ltsp package
<cbx33> it's not needed anymore
<cbx33> it's never run
<willvdl> thank the heavens for core duo's
<cbx33> you mean the amd dual cores right :p
<willvdl> no silly, intel
<willvdl> :)
* willvdl is not part of the 64 bit revolution
<ogra> cbx33, indeed its needed for upstream usage
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<cbx33> i see
<ogra> i want other distros to use python-ltsp
<cbx33> may need a little help with mine
<cbx33> bbl
<_mark> Hi folks, I'm looking for instructions for installing a thin client on an old machine. For example, what type of Rom_o_matic image do you need? Does anyone have a URL.
<_mark> whois _mark
<cliebow_> _mark:what card?
<m300107> hello, am looking for instructions for installing thin clients on an old machine. EG what type of rom-o-matic image do you need?does anyone have a url? thanks
<cbx33> ogra, you around?
<cbx33> phew that was tough
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> package and some very updated vnc code done
<cbx33> I've had to resort to threading some parts
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> as the normal code was just too damn slow
<Marxus> Hello?
<Marxus> I need help
<Marxus> hellooooooooooo?
<Marxus> please?
<cbx33> Hi Marxus
<Marxus> Oh thankyou
<Marxus> I was using the live cd version but as soon as it gets to the "register cd user" thing it freezes
<cbx33> hmmm.
<cbx33> can you give me some more info
<cbx33> which live cd
<Marxus> i was using a windows 95 laptop but it works on my windows xp
<Marxus> i want to install it
<Marxus> on the windows 95
<cbx33> hmm....
<cbx33> is that laptop up to spec?
<Marxus> it freezes at the loading screen just to make it clear
<Marxus> umm.. meaning?
<Marxus> does it have enough ram?
<cbx33> yeh
<Marxus> yeah
<Marxus> it does
<Marxus> can i do anything? I just want to install it.
<Marxus> I have no cd burner and my friend lent me his cd.
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> not sure
<cbx33> at the mo, unfortunately I have to pop off to do something
<cliebow> souble boot the xp machine?
<Marxus> eh?
<cliebow> double boot the xp machine?
<Marxus> its not xp. windows 95
<cliebow> how mch ram?
<Marxus> it did a memory test and i passed.... not sure anyway.
<Marxus> *sigh*
<cliebow> win95 prob has 32 m2g of ram  8~) check in the bios..if it diesnt show any other way
<Marxus> whoa! I do not understand that.
<cliebow> what sorto f lappie?
<Marxus> gateway solo, AMD Duron.
<cliebow> cant you get into the bios?
<cliebow> with delete or f1 or something?
<cliebow> should list the ram somewhere
<Marxus> the battery is shot and i have no power cable for it, so i would have to use this one
<Marxus> this computers power cable
<Marxus> umm... it's useless isn't it?
<cliebow> tough call....if the xp machine works..you do have one??make it double boot
<Marxus> see. My OS for my windows 95 is crap so i wanted to give it something nice.... besides the XP is my mom... wouldnt want to screw it up
<cliebow> true..can you build the os onn another machine..by mmoving hard drive?
<Marxus> no...
<Marxus> certainly in a pickle aren't I?
<Marxus> maybe i should go...
<Marxus> alright....
#edubuntu 2007-01-31
<nofxx> Hi, I'm having problems with LTSP..booting 64 bits machines...  anyone sucessful booting 64 bits thu PXE?
<nofxx> I was using ubuntu.. gonna try edubuntu now...
<bddebian> Heya
<nofxx> ruoeiwurowqeueiwouwerewpioruwqeruoieuqwr
<nofxx> ops...sorry
<nofxx> what's the difference "install to hard disk"  and  "install a worstation"  in the edubuntu cd?
<nofxx> hm..after install to hard disk it says "Decompressing Linux...Done" "Booting the kernel" ... and stops...
<nofxx> I can write with the keyboard...hum...what I'm not doiing ?
<RichEd> morning all
<highvoltage> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hey highvoltage
<RichEd> gotta minute for me ?
<RichEd> ping highvoltage : are you very busy ?
<posingaspopular> room: i need some help. anyone available?
<RichEd> posingaspopular: that's a bit general - ask your question ... and see who responds
<posingaspopular> I have a d-link dI-541 wireless router and I need a wireclass that will support edubuntu and the wireless
<RichEd> posingaspopular: does your default edbuntu install not pick up a vaild signal ?
<posingaspopular> RichEd: I don't have a wireless card yet. I need to buy one.
<RichEd> Ahh ... okay. I've only used built-it wireless, and have never had any hasles. The issue is more related to the ubuntu core than to the edubuntu variant ... I suggest you ask on #ubuntu where there are many more people active.
<RichEd> *built-in
<posingaspopular> RichEd: thanks. I built my computer myself and never got around to buying a card. my main computer is being used all the time and I need to do HW so I need my personal computer to connect wirelessly
<RichEd> what country are you in ? do you have a wide range of options to buy from ?
<posingaspopular> states. i duno about options, ive just decided to buy it and im trying to do preliminary research
<RichEd> Well if ask in #ubuntu ... you'll get quite a few stateside people there ... some of who will have had personal experience.
<posingaspopular> RichEd: thanks, im in there now
<highvoltage> RichEd: sorry, I'm back now
<RichEd> highvoltage: no problem :) i'll msg you
<highvoltage> ok
<SiCk> ello one and all
<highvoltage> 'ello SiCk
<SiCk> how's you?
<willvdl> highvoltage, installing freedom toaster. Did You Know it runs off a Breezy server install?
<m300107> &bindaddr=127.0.0.1:8118
<highvoltage> willvdl: nope
<highvoltage> willvdl: although I had a vague idea it did
<highvoltage> willvdl: I've never touched FT software before though
<willvdl> trying now quick. jsut worried about HW compatability for new chipsets (it didn't find my NIC)
<willvdl> http://allafrica.com/stories/200701250138.html
<willvdl> highvoltage, what linux OS is likely to run on a P1, 32Mb Ram? (standalone)
<highvoltage> willvdl: Debian 2.0 ;)
<highvoltage> willvdl: you can get Linux to boot on a PC with 32MB RAM, but if you're looking for a full distrbution with X and everthing, I doubt that the PC will still be of much use
<willvdl> yeah. shame, got a guy in Indonesia who received CD's through ShipIt but his hardware is soooo old
<highvoltage> willvdl: it might still be useful as a smoothwall box though
<highvoltage> willvdl: http://www.smoothwall.org
<willvdl> erm, I don't think they guy has much need for a firewall :)
<RichEd> hi will ... did you respond tio my request and comments in the other channel ? news and nigeria
<cbx33> ogra: go on
<cbx33> call me a genius
<cbx33> we now no longer need crippled_des.py
<cbx33> license problem over
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: please behave yourself this time
<edubuntugirl> <sad face> ok </sad face>
<jsgotangco> hello
<m310107> Hi, sorry to interrupt, I'm looking for instructions on how to install a thin client (old machine) with a 3GB hard drive. I can't find any decent instructions on the edubuntu webpage. Can someone help? Thanks
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco
<highvoltage> m310107: hi, does the computer have a PXE capable network card installed?
<highvoltage> m310107: this should be able to help you: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClientHowto
<m310107> thanks, no i don' think the bios will support pxe boot, its an old box. I'd have to install a boot image that sorts this out. thx for the url.
<m310107> Thx. Am using Ubuntu 6.10 for the server, so this info looks just right.
<ogra> cbx33++
<willvdl> highvoltage, is it you that adds all these thingies to edubuntugirl?
<cbx33> ogra: will send you along the source and the book chapter...
<cbx33> and I'm gonna have a night off tonight
<cbx33> i don't know why on earth they didn't bother doing that in the first place with the pyvnc2swf viewer
<cbx33> it's not exactly hard
<cbx33> and it seems to work fine
<highvoltage> willvdl: I add some of the thingies, yes :)
<SiCk> cbx33, have you a minute? i've a question... :)
<SiCk> just a quicky
<SiCk> well, for anyone really... i'm trying to install gdm and firefox via apt-get to my chroot, and i'm getting couldnt find package
<SiCk> tried moving sources.list over from the normal /etc/apt/ then running apt-get update, it hits everything but i still get couldnt find package... any ideas?
<SiCk> yaay
<SiCk> nevermind, was missing something stupid
<SiCk> chroot $ROOT being the main stupid thing
<SiCk> anyone know how to set the screen res on certain clients?
<SiCk> i have a kiosk situation set-up and the firefox --fullscreen is only taking up a portion of the screen
<SiCk> nevermind.. got it i think heh... what a bit of research does for you eh?
<juliux> highvoltage, ping
<paolob> Hi ogra, I'm seen that in the last weeks the file /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf has changed, now it has a "if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) condition. What is it? thank you
<highvoltage> juliux: pong
<highvoltage> paolob: I haven't seen it myself, but I would guess it's so that the server can figure out whether the client is booting from PXE or Etherboot firmware
<juliux> highvoltage, did you think you can add a link to the edubuntu weekend in feb in germany in the topic?
<highvoltage> ef
<highvoltage> juliux: of course
<highvoltage> juliux: can you please mail me the details?
<highvoltage> juliux: jonathan@ubuntu.com
<juliux> highvoltage, yes
<highvoltage> juliux: sounds like fun!
<highvoltage> juliux: what is edubuntu weekend about? I guess I can just hold on a bit for that mail :)
<juliux> highvoltage, we will have a network with around 25-30 clients and several servers, one part is to test different server and document the reatkion from the user
<juliux> highvoltage, another part is only so see where a beginer has problems to setup a sever
<juliux> and we will use it as a get together;)
<sbalneav> Morning all!!!
<cbx33> ping ogra
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav!!
<highvoltage> hi cbx33 too!
<cbx33> hey highvoltage sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning highvoltage cbx33
<juliux> highvoltage, should i write you an e-mail?
<highvoltage> juliux: that would be good
<juliux> highvoltage, ok
<juliux> highvoltage, i will also write an announcend on -devel and -user in the next days
<highvoltage> juliux: great, then we can link to that too
<bddebian> Heya
<highvoltage> heya bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> bddebian: do you still think you are a God? If so, can you please make my i915 graphics problems dissapear? :)
<bddebian> Uhm I have never thought I was a God.  A Dog maybe but far from a God :-)
<highvoltage> ah I see, the wiki page changed!
<bddebian> Did it?
<highvoltage> yep
<nixternal> hey you guys!
<nixternal> </chunk voice>
<sbalneav> Chunk voice?
<sbalneav> Campbells chunky voice soup?
<SimonAnibal> I believe it's a Goonies reference
<cbx33> ping ogra get my mail?
<highvoltage> win 19
<cbx33> hi highvoltage
<cbx33> win 19?
<highvoltage> hi cbx33
<highvoltage> I escaped my / accidentally
<highvoltage> meant to type /win 19 in irssi :)
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> what does taht do in irssi?
<highvoltage> changes to channel #19
<highvoltage> irssi has a 'window' for each channel, so you change to window 19 to see, #launchpad, for example
<cbx33> anyone answer this question for me?
<cbx33> I have a php page with some html ssi includes
<cbx33> it doesn't work...
<cbx33> can it be made to?
<cbx33> I presume it's because it's getting parsed by php first
<highvoltage> cbx33: how does ssi work again? doesn't it execute local scripts in your pages? if so, you could use exec in php, right?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i could
<bdoin> Nepali fights OLPC from the inside, http://www.olpcnews.com/  GCompris taken as hostage
<cbx33> hmm....since updating today X seems to be crashing a lot
<cbx33> ======edubuntu meeting 13 mins========
<highvoltage> my responses might be a bit slow.. eatin an ice cream tht's melting faster than I can eat
<stgraber> :) It should be warmer than here in that case :)
<stgraber> No risk that would happen here :)
<cbx33> ===============edubuntu meeting 3 minutes away...get your beer ready==========
<pips1> hi everybody
<RichEd> hi pips1 :)
<highvoltage> hi pips1
<pips1> hey, i didn't see you there, highvoltage :-)
<highvoltage> understandable, I was just out to clean all the chocolate
<pips1> huh?
<cbx33> ===========edubuntu meeting NOW===========
<pips1> clean all the chocolate?
<highvoltage> pips1: I just ate an ice cream that melted quicker than I could eat it, ended up being quite messy
<pips1> :)
<pips1> ahhh summer
<froud> hi highvoltage
<nixternal> sorry for going out of sequence on my post in #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> I haven't had much time to work on docs the past few weeks with a super busy school schedule
<cbx33> heheh np nixternal
<nixternal> I promise to put in some doc work this weekend
<highvoltage> hi froud
<RichEd> no problem nixternal ... we've all been busy kicking off 2007
<nixternal> I am doing Kubuntu docs as well, and I am the only one doing that, so bear with me the next few weeks, I will promise I will try to not let anyone down :)
<froud> highvoltage: the meet here or at #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> RichEd: if you have any ideas/plans you want implemented with the Handbook, just highlight me, or email me (nixternal@ubuntu.com) and I will address them as soon as I can
<highvoltage> froud: #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> I need to head off, so I will chat with you all in a bit, during my dinner break tonight
<RichEd> thanks ... will do
<cbx33> hey UbaGeek
<cbx33> we can talk here
<cbx33> the meeting is in session so here is preferred
<UbaGeek> hey dude
<cbx33> howz it going?
<cbx33> I'm normally in here pretty much always
<cbx33> guys meet UbaGeek, he's a Youth LUG founding member
<cbx33> and helps me out a lot
<cbx33> and....yup youg uessed it...he runs linux exclusivly
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> UbaGeek, what you need to do now is register your nickname
<UbaGeek> how
<cbx33> UbaGeek, type this
<cbx33>  /msg nickserv help register
<RichEd> hi UbaGeek ... greetz from Cape Town, South Africa
<cbx33> RichEd, did you get my pm?
<UbaGeek> hey dude
<RichEd> checking now ... too many /msg windows
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> UbaGeek, did you get it registered?
<UbaGeek> i hope so
<UbaGeek> at least i think
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> so now when ever you sign onto irc
<cbx33> do /msg nickserv identify <password>
<cbx33> remeber to do the /
<UbaGeek> ok
<cbx33> else your password will be put up on screen for everyone to see
<UbaGeek> right
<highvoltage>  /msg nickserv identify edubuntufan911
<highvoltage> :p
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> nooooo
<LNS> hey guys!
<highvoltage> hey LNS
<LNS> Can anyone tell me real quick if I should update the LTSP environment if I'm using 6.06LTS and I haven't moved to 6.10, but there were 239 updates installed on the server?
<LNS> All I can find is that you should update LTSP env. if you move from version to version.
<highvoltage> afaik there's no major benefit in upgrading the chroot at the moment. probably some fixes in LDM, but I suggest you hang around, ogra ould tell you for sure
<LNS> awesome...thanks highvoltage =)
<highvoltage> LNS: :)
<LNS> 'hoping these updates will give me printing to our HPLJ 1000 via usb...having issues at the moment so i thought i'd apt-getallthedamnupdates =)
<highvoltage> heh
<LNS> Anyone try Edubuntu on one of those brand new HP proliant servers? The thing is crazy...redundant power supplies, the whole deal..wish i had the model handy
<LNS> dual xeon 3.2ghz
<LNS> 8gb ram
<LNS> ahh..it's an HP ML370G5
<rodarvus> willvdl, do you want to discuss about yelp tomorrow?
<rodarvus> (I'll be here for a little while still, depends if you still have some steam)
<pips1> willvdl: so... what time suits you tomorrow? for me, afternoon is better
<willvdl> rodarvus, that would be cool. I'm not that familiar with yelp
<willvdl> but the moodle stuff doesn't worry me at all
<rodarvus> *nods*
<pips1> ogra: any news from Jordan on edubuntu-menus-completion ?
<willvdl> rodarvus, have meeting at 12 UTC so afternoon
<ogra> pips1, nope
<willvdl> rodarvus, thanks, would appreciate it
<ogra> pips1, but i'd rather see him focusing on main inclusion for the second CD
<pips1> in the spec Jordan writes that he is being held up by a gnome bug... the conversation in the bug tracker is kind of slow... http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=374577
<rodarvus> 12UTC is bad for me (I'll have car insurance schedule by then) - would you mind doing one hour earlier? (or one hour later)
<ogra> pips1, sounds rather like "rejected"
<pips1> ogra: yeah
<willvdl> rodarvus, I'm tied at 12 UTC so either way
<rodarvus> lets do 13UTC, then
<willvdl> cool. should be done by then
<pips1> ogra: has Jordan been around lately? you in touch?
<ogra> we talked very shortly recently ... i otiifed him about the secod CD
<ogra> *second
<pips1> ic
<ogra> *no ti fi ed
<ogra> tsk
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> it was readable :)
<willvdl> rodarvus, can moodel be used as decentish email server?
<pips1> i otiifed
<ogra> willvdl, no
<rodarvus> hmm?
<rodarvus> no :)
<willvdl> ogra :)
* willvdl remebers previous discussion
<rodarvus> moodle is just a CMS
<ogra> but it can make use of a decent email server runing on the same machine
<ogra> i think there is a webmail and an imap module
<rodarvus> it needs the whole backend  to work: database, web server, email server, etc
<willvdl> sorry, mean groupware rather (which is a leading definition)
<ogra> you can easily run it without email setup
<rodarvus> ahn
<ajmitch> willvdl: what sort of groupware are you needing though?
<rodarvus> willvdl, I'm not sure it has a decent groupware plugin
<ajmitch> email, calendar, etc?
<rodarvus> I'd say "not", but moodle has surprised me in many (positive) ways until now
<willvdl> but can handle calenders, addressbook etc.?
<ogra> ajmitch, something that looks like hula but wors
<ogra> *works
<ajmitch> haha
<rodarvus> the default modules are overall good quality
<pips1> hihi
<rodarvus> 3rd party, not so good, most of the times
* ajmitch is biased towards phpgroupware
<willvdl> ajmitch, short story is I'm fishing for a good exchange replacement to suggest for backend solutions
<ogra> rodarvus, well, third party is often written by teachers with a "php in 30 days" handy ...
<rodarvus> ogra, indeed
<pips1> willvdl: there isn't one
<rodarvus> willvdl, I don't think moodle would be your best choice on this field
<pips1> agreed
<rodarvus> moodle really shines in easing the creation of new courses (and the whole environment around it)
<willvdl> I must make the time to install and run moodle...
<ogra> willvdl, lotus :P
<rodarvus> hula would be grand - if it was ready
<ajmitch> willvdl: as I said, I'm biased towards phpgroupware, but I know the upstream developers & have done some work on it :)
<pips1> moodle is completely focussed around the concept of a *course*
<willvdl> hula looks good but that is all
<ogra> hula is a gag ...
<rodarvus> willvdl, hula is far from being complete - or even useable
<willvdl> ajmitch, would help if we had something to suggest that wasn't only universe supported :)
<ogra> willvdl, we dont
<ajmitch> willvdl: pfft
<willvdl> hula lacks client support
<ogra> there simply is nothing we support in that area
<ajmitch> willvdl: it's packaged by a core dev, is that good enough? ;)
<willvdl> I mean, it's fine to run an email server in a corporate/org backend
<ogra> i always thought it shuld be an edub untu duty to bring it to main and care for it though ...
<ogra> but i cant do everything :)
<ajmitch> ogra: well if you want me to push it to main, I can try :)
<ogra> ajmitch, what exactly ?
<willvdl> ogra, not specific to edubuntu
<ajmitch> phpgroupware, in this case
<ogra> i wont care for phpgroupware
<ajmitch> I would
<ogra> moodle in main is scary enough for three releases
<willvdl> ajmitch, how does it scale?
<ogra> or four
<ajmitch> quite well, I know people using it with several thousand users
<ajmitch> not sure how many concurrent logins
<pips1> :-O
<ogra> willvdl, specific to edubuntu i think we need to integrate something like a groupware server at some point
<ajmitch> ogra: I own the package in debian, I know it well enough
<pips1> ogra: why?
<ogra> does it work properly with postgres ?
<ajmitch> I do need to rip out wwwconfig-common & a few things, it's been on my todo list for awhile
<ajmitch> yes, postgres, mysql, oracle, even mssql
<ogra> pips1, a user request i often get
<willvdl> ogra, I suspect the same rquirements for education in groupware are the same for ubuntu users
<pips1> educators ask for groupware ?
<ogra> right
<ogra> pips1, yep
<pips1> or school admin staff ask for groupware ?
<willvdl> ajmitch, oracle huh? which versions?
* ajmitch can't recall what versions it's been tested with, sorry
<willvdl> pips1, education departments do
<pips1> right
<willvdl> ajmitch, I can push that one hopefully
<ogra> willvdl, all datatbases through odbc i guess ... even oracle :)
<ogra> (if you dont find a native plugin unixodbc is your friend)
* willvdl has had good experience with odbc
<pips1> well, schooltool wants to fill the gap... it's just been a vexed project, though :-(
<willvdl> pips1, consider a government wanting a national rollout, with school admin, staff emails, calenders etc
<willvdl> schooltool will bridge that SIF question in time and that will be great
<pips1> I know about SIF, but what do you mean with 'SIF question'
<willvdl> I honestly believe that a groupware solution without client support is a serious downer
<pips1> ?
<pips1> with client support you mean evolution?
<rodarvus> gotta leave, see you guys tomorrow!
<ajmitch> bye rodarvus :)
<willvdl> pips1, meaning making full use of it etc.
<willvdl> rodarvus, ciao
<pips1> cu rodarvus
<rodarvus> *waves*
<pips1> willvdl: do you mean a desktop client (i.e. ms outlook, i.e. evolution) to access your emails/calendars/todo items/... ?
<willvdl> pips1, yes
<willvdl> client integration more like it
<ogra> willvdl, odbc is a scary insecure thing, but has the advantage that it wrks nearly everywhere ...
<willvdl> ogra, providing nobody tries to do something innovative with SQL
<ogra> heh
<willvdl> pips1, the thing being, if you don't have network, you can still see your calender
<pips1> well, I don't think having a desktop client is important (i.e. I can imagine a usable AJAX style browser interface), but I think *desktop integration* is important (i.e. drag-and-drop of files, notifications, etc)
<willvdl> The web may be moving to google and ajax and whatever, but most of us don't have the web in a reliable fashion
<pips1> right
<pips1> i see your point
<willvdl> take for example a corporate LAN that goes down for an hour. you need to see you email/calender
<pips1> hmm right
<willvdl> Internet is a first world luxury :)
<pips1> well, as you said, *reliable* internet connectivity is...
<pips1> even LAN, if I take your word
<pips1> :)
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> it happens
<willvdl> pips1, take a look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Wiki/SiteMap if you get a chance
<willvdl> it links to a page structure I was working on
<willvdl> look and feel not perfect at all
<pips1> *click*
<willvdl> but it is an attempt to move the bits and pieces together
<willvdl> i.e. from www, old wiki pages etc.
<willvdl> trying to consolidate. eventually I would like the Launchpad stuff to go to LP help pages or reference then when they get written
<pips1> hmm
* pips1 mulls over will's structure
<willvdl> completely open to change/suggestion
<willvdl> e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Community would need to look and read better
<npnutn> Greetings, all.
<pips1> generally it helps to name content for browsing in the way "the user thinks", i.e. in terms of the user's *goals* and subsequently, in terms of actions/tasks one has to do to achieve your goal ?
<pips1> I like "GetInvolved"
<willvdl> uhuh
<pips1> I don't like "Photos"
<willvdl> I had to think hard about wikinames :)
<willvdl> and hope that a good Community start page would help
<willvdl> "GetInvolved" needs more info and links
<pips1> oops, these pages all exist already
<pips1> 8-O
<willvdl> I'd like to avoid too many links to the same page, just in case the link moves or changes info
<npnutn> I see ogra in the room.  Perhaps other will know as well.  What is the status of sound for LTSP thin clients on Edgy?  Any luck with Flash yet?
<ogra> should work fine
<ogra> at least it did when i tested it last ...
<npnutn> Hmmm.
<npnutn> My results have been.... mixed.
<willvdl> folks, off to bed. ciao
<ogra> npnutn, well, at least i can promise that all sound related issues are solved in feisty
<pips1> npnutn: supporting flash-sound for a local workstation and supporting it for thin clients shouldn't be any different?
<ogra> we switched to pulseaudio with alsa emulation ...
<ogra> which is classes better than any former remote sound implementation
<ogra> (including full volume control, recording etc)
<npnutn> Very nice.  I've heard good things about pulse.  I haven't tried Feisty yet...
<npnutn> ... I haven't heard much about stability with it.  (?)  Recording, you say?
<ogra> i havent got the magic running to set the local mixer for the right input device on the client
<ogra> but if you tweak it manually, you can actually record from an attached mic
<ogra> ofr feisty volume control and stability were my main focused parts
<ogra> if we dont have magically sound recording ready before feisty+1 i wont cry about it
<ogra> the base is there ... and it improved a lot beyond esd
<npnutn> Nice.  Should be good for folks wanting VoIP and such.
<ogra> yep
<npnutn> ogra: did I see you on the list of devs for a "fat-client" package?
<ogra> puse just emulates an alsa card ... so everythng just picks it up...
<ogra> yes
<ogra> but i cant promise yet that fat clients will happen this release
<ogra> they depend on network authenticatio which i'm just implementing
<ogra> so only if i make it with this feature in time i can move on to the next
<npnutn> :)  Just the fact that it is in the works is cool.  What auth. method?  PAM/LDAP?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> probably CIFS
<ogra> bt pam ldap for sure
<pips1> \o/
<ogra> if i ever get over my shock with udev ...
<pips1> heh
<npnutn> ;)
<ajmitch> ogra: udev doing that would be libnss-ldap playing up, I thought
<ajmitch> and it should have a very low timeout setting at the moment
<ogra> it has
<ajmitch> what is udev doing then?
<ogra> well, /etc/nsswitch.conf told it to try ldap and then compat ...
<ogra> it looped through nss-ldap requests ...
<ajmitch> it shoudl have tried ldap, timed out quickly, and then moved on
<ogra> with "cant find ldap server ldap://127.0.0.1"
<ajmitch> I was testing it at UDS, it didn't delay bootup that much
<ogra> it hung in an endless loop
<ogra> even in single user mode
<ajmitch> hm, unless it's trying to repeatedly lookup numerous uids/gids
<ajmitch> that's rather annoying
<ogra> i had to wipe /etc/nsswitch.conf from a liveCD to get in again
<ogra> passwd:         ldap compat
<ogra> group:          ldap compat
<ogra> thats all i changed
<ajmitch> I wonder if compat ldap would work better
* ajmitch checks his code
<ajmitch> yeah, my code was appending it, so it became 'compat ldap'
<ogra> hmm
<ajmitch> maybe why I've had less problems
<ajmitch> anyway, I have to run out, back later
<ogra> what happens if you have a group in both
<ogra> i.e fuse would be a candidate ... which would it take ...
#edubuntu 2007-02-01
<Dante123> hi all.....I'm an elementary school teacher and at work we have a SmartBoard...that works fine with our windows laptops. I have ubuntu on my laptop and I have downloaded the SmartBoard software.....however....I can't seem to get it to detect the board.....hooked up via laptop USB to Serial port on Smartboard. Has anyone here had experience getting ubuntu to work with a Smartboard (interactive whiteboard)...ubuntu 6.10 installed
<Burgwork> hmm, nope
<Burgwork> I would check to see if the smart board is detectd
<ogra> Dante123, rodarvus is supposed to know about such kernel driver stuff since very recently ... but i dont know if he had time to look into any options yet
<Burgwork> ogra: wonder if we could (ab)use telepathy to this end
<cliebow> Dante123:have you tried lsusb?
<ogra> Burgwork, that still needs working kernel modules in most cases
<Dante123> I get this error message....(will have to write down exact wording) that says something about can't detect smartboard or that port is already in use...something like that....
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> ogra: was thinking for the UI, assuming the kernel module exsits
<ogra> right
<ogra> but the kernel is the main concern atm
<ogra> drivers are rare
<ogra> at least working ones
<Burgwork> heh
<Dante123> my problem is that the board is at school.....and I don't get much time at school to troubleshoot this.........i have 4 kids of my own to take home from school with me each day and the older ones aren't into hanging around while Dad troubleshoots smartboard and linux....can't say I blame them
<Dante123> thanks cliebow....I will try that......
<Dante123> I also talked to tech support at smartboard and they said to call tomorrow when the "linux" expert guy is there.....
<cliebow> Dante123: il look into that as well.we have one here..
<ogra> Dante123, file a bug and if you attached the smartboard copy /var/log/dmesg to your desktop a minute later then attach it to the bug later
<Dante123> i'd love to get it working with ubuntu......the smart notebook software works well
<Dante123> ok...thanks.
<ogra> the log output will tell our kernel devs what to do (if there is something they can do)
<Dante123> will try the things you have suggested.......do you think I should have the smartboard plugged in when booting up....or plug it in after initial boot up???
<cliebow> lsusb should tell you that
<cliebow> watch the logs when you plug it in
<Dante123> ok...thanks
<Dante123> what is up with netpanzer server being down?
<bddebian> Heya
<posingaspopular> room: is there any way to install KDE on edubuntu
<cliebow> apt-get install kde-desktop
<posingaspopular> cliebow: thanks. thats what i though it was, i just wasn't 100%
<posingaspopular> is that sudo?
<cliebow> yeah if not root
<posingaspopular> thanks
<cliebow> 8~)
<highvoltage> ogra: does LDM go through .dmrc and does it use Session= from it?
<highvoltage> ogra: I just want to know to give some kind of a useful answer to doug who posted to the list
<cbx33> ping ogra
<ogra> highvoltage, it doesnt yet
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<ogra> highvoltage, oh, that answer
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> ogra: yes :)
<ogra> highvoltage, he could just use a ~/.xsession ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: did I mislead him, is there a way to do it currently?
<ogra> per user
<highvoltage> aaaah
<ogra> especially since he needs to touch files anyway to get an icewm seassion ready
<ogra> i dont think it ships one
<ogra> btw, what do you think about xfce on the second CD ?
* highvoltage sends back another response to doug
<highvoltage> Xfce on the second CD sounds great
<highvoltage> many people use tuXlab specifically because Edubuntu they prefer Xfce
<ogra> so sad this is unmaintained: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~qiq/src/shfs/
<highvoltage> and for some people it would be better to use Edubuntu with Xfce, currently
<highvoltage> so I personally think Xfce on CD2 is good
<ogra> you could do pam_mount with a simple sftp homedir ...
<ogra> only needs an ssh server
<highvoltage> what's the problem with using fuse again?
<highvoltage> we use it for ltspfs...
<highvoltage> so why would it be a problem using sshfs?
<ogra> fuse sshfs ? hmmm
<highvoltage> apt-get install sshfs :)
<ogra> not sure pam likes that
<ogra> but i'll check
<highvoltage> pam_mount is supposed to work with sshfs, not that I know from first hand experience yet
<ogra> not having to open nfs or samba by default for home dir mounting would be rad
* highvoltage nods
<highvoltage> and sshfs makes the authentication less troublesome too
<ogra> especially since we already have ssh
<cbx33> hey ogra
<highvoltage> with samba you pretty much have to use ldap
<cbx33> any further news on the book chapter?
<highvoltage> otherwise the password syncing turns into too much work
<ogra> which is what we'll do anyway
<ogra> but i dont want additional prots open
<ogra> or additional access areas ...
<highvoltage> samba might be nice long term for Windows integration
<ogra> cbx33, not yet, i'll get to it
<ogra> highvoltage, indeed
<ogra> and its up to you to set it up like that for now ...
<ogra> i just dotn want to overcomplicate the defaults
<ogra> (unless i have ten more devs heping me)
<highvoltage> agreed
<highvoltage> no I think samba is a long-term thing
<highvoltage> I also think it's about time Edubuntu gets another full time developer
<highvoltage> can't the EC vote on something like that? ;)
<highvoltage> perhaps the EC can make a recomendation, at the very least.
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<cbx33> you are da man
<ogra> highvoltage, we have a budget now ...
<ogra> no room for more than two devs atm
<cbx33> and those places are filled
<highvoltage> rodarvus works on lots of other stuff too though, but I suppose it will get better when the X maintainer takes more stuff over from him
<ogra> humm ...it just struck me that we dont need pam_mount for ltsp ...
<ogra> ldm could do that
<rodarvus> ogra, indeed I made a research on smartboard for RichEd and willvdl recently
<rodarvus> (but as mentioned on my email on the subject, I don't have the hardware to test)
<rodarvus> good morning, btw :)
<ogra> Dante123 has it :)
<highvoltage> wow ogra, good point
<highvoltage> this will actually be a circumstance where LDM can make life quite easy
<ogra> so a simple sshfs call from there might work
<rodarvus> highvoltage, I don't work on X anymore (since a few weeks ago)
<cbx33> anyone had any reply from hitachi yet?
<ogra> i didnt write them anything ...
<ogra> so i dont really expect a reply :P
<cbx33> i did
<cbx33> :p
<rodarvus> heh
<ogra> tsk, all in-kernel ssh filesystems are broken ...
<cbx33> :(
* ogra just tried to build lufs
<highvoltage> ogra: at least it makes a case for using sshfs eaier
<highvoltage> *easier
<cbx33> hehe, me thinks it's great that a 13-14 year old at the school here compiled wine from source the other day
<highvoltage> ogra: I use sshfs every day to play movies on my laptop from my home server, and I haven't had problems yet
<ogra> well, even if we dont need pam_mount in ldm ... i'd rather have it integrated properly
<highvoltage> cbx33: I think I can one-up you there, I've had 10 year olds who use emacs ;)
<cbx33> heheh cool highvoltage
<ogra> sshfs needs a hook to mount ... so you can mount -t ssh
<cbx33> i thought you could?
<juliux> ogra, we installed yesterday ubuntu and ltsp on sun sparc;)
<ogra> yay
<juliux> but i haven't tested if the clients boot from sparc, will test the sparc things after my last examen
<cbx33> nice juliux
<cbx33> oh the artwork is coming along nicely
<cbx33> ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: would you mind if I bug you over the weekend for some python / glade / pygtk advice?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> np highvoltage
* ogra gulps
<cbx33> whats up ogra
<ogra> # For FUSE mounts, example sshfs:
<ogra> #     volume * fuse - "sshfs#&@fileserver:" /home/& - - -
<ogra> # Or...
<ogra> #     volume * fuse - "sshfs#&@fileserver:" ~ - - -
<ogra> from /etc/security/pam_mount.conf :-D
<highvoltage> ogra: :-D
<highvoltage> ogra: sshfs ftw!
<ogra> well
<ogra> lets see f pitti lets it into main
<highvoltage> oh no, I said ftw again
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: please shoot me
<edubuntugirl> *bang*
<ogra> highvoltage, doug could make .xsession redonly :)
<ogra> *read
<ogra> so only the admin can change it
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought about that, but the user would be able to delete .xsession, since they own the directory?
<ogra> yep
<highvoltage> well, doug could probably chattr it
<ogra> right, something like that
<highvoltage> but I don't like recommending something like that
<ogra> then just leave it ...
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> heh
<cbx33> highvoltage: what are you trying to do in python/glade?
<paolob> Hi guys! Anyone can tell me what does the error "Mount: nfs mount failed: bad file descriptor" when the client tryes to mount the ltsp root? the docs say it's a problem with nfs server not running, but I have it running, and dhcp is configured correctly. Any hint?
<cbx33> ho do i bug about the normal ubuntu site now?
<cbx33> who
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> somethings gone wrong somewhere
<cbx33> I just got a mail that was addressed to you
<cbx33> and I can't see a CC or BCC anywhere
<ogra> cbx33, spam ?
<cbx33> no
<ogra> i get a lot of highvoltage or jsgotancgo spam ...
<cbx33> oh?
<ogra> adressed to them, landing in my inbox
<cbx33> but the to field is  to you
<ogra> usually with an attachment
<cbx33> how does that happen?
<ogra> adress spoofing
<cbx33> crikey....never seen that before
<cbx33> it looks genuine
<cbx33> I'm sending you the message source
<cbx33> you see what you think
<cbx33> i've never heard of spoofing who the mail is going to though
<cbx33> I didn't mean it was sent from you
<cbx33> It was addressed to you
<ogra> i know
<cbx33> how can that be spoofed?
<cbx33> sorry ogra
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I've never heard of that before
<ogra> hum, thats weird
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> i was wondering if something was wrong on the mail server
<ogra> lets ping elmo and ask
<ogra> (in -devel)
<highvoltage> cbx33: don't you have admin rights on edubuntu.org too?
<cbx33> http://forum.spamcop.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t6682.html
<highvoltage> ogra: I get spam addressed to you too. I think it's scraped off the wiki
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> possibility it could have been bcc'd to me
<cbx33> but sent to you
<ogra> but that mail is no spam
<cbx33> this isn't spam
<cbx33> or if it it's it's not accomplishing much
<highvoltage> cbx33: you were probably bcc'd in the mail, while ogra was in the to: field
<highvoltage> (oh you already said that :) )
<cbx33> did you get the mail ogra ?
<cbx33> hmm i just tried on my gmail....bcc shows up
<ogra> ah, got it
<cbx33> ogra: it must be a bcc but one of the servers strips out the bcc i suppose.....how it actually gets there I'll nenver know
<cbx33> hehe ok sorry bout that ogra
<ogra> my spamfilter sorted it out ... so all is normal, i got the original, you got the bcc
<cbx33> cool ok
<cbx33> ogra: I'm not nagging.....hehe....just organising work load....any eta on the book chapter
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> or tcm?
<willvdl> hey rodarvus, sorry was tied up in meeting longer than I thought
<rodarvus> no prob :)
<rodarvus> will you be here later today? I'd like to leave for lunch now (half past noon here, I'm starving :) )
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> rodarvus, yeah, I'll be ehre for a few hours still
<bddebian> Howdy
<cbx33> hey SiCk
<RichEd> hey jsgotangco :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: heya i heard you went to LCA?
<RichEd> yep ... was good
<jsgotangco> hehe i attended source camp and was away for 2 weeks
<RichEd> jsgotangco: we got a win of 954 desktops in philippines : unison.com.ph : Edubuntu & Open Office = Government's E-skwela project
<RichEd> next round of the tender is 20,000 units for 2007
<jsgotangco> i haven't heard of it
<jsgotangco> well i guess its more of a business thing that's why i haven't heard of anything, not that I have a say on it anyways
<RichEd> was through the intel partner manager - Jennifer Lai - so the relationship is getting goinr
<RichEd> *going
<jsgotangco> ah well, i've learned to let things run through its course, so far ive enjoyed life being an independent developer and attending the asia source camp was a good experience
<RichEd> f.y.i. http://eskwela.wikispaces.com/Project+Description
<pips1> hi all
<highvoltage> hi pips1
<jsgotangco> check this out
<jsgotangco> http://picasaweb.google.com/jgotangco/AsiaSourceII
<pips1> hey jsgotangco!
<jsgotangco> hey dude
<pips1> nice pics
<RichEd> hi pips1 : bang on time
<jsgotangco> yep
<RichEd> will be with you in a minute
<RichEd> getting a coffee :)
<pips1> np
<jsgotangco> 120+ people for 9 days only using ubuntu in a lab
<pips1> nice one
<jsgotangco> yeah no one in the ubuntu community are even aware we do this source camps here i guess
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: why don't you get it on the fridge?
<pips1> I wasn't, but that doesn't need to mean much! :-)
<jsgotangco> im still suffering from post-camp depression
<pips1> yeah, must have been nice - judging from your images
<pips1> "Fouad vs. Super FOSS Tantri" :-)
<jsgotangco> yeah that's Fouad Bajwa
<jsgotangco> jeezz what a great guy
<pips1> "Myra giving Muno a back massage at the bazaar"
<pips1> :-)
<jsgotangco> you wouldn't even know what nationality the people in the camp are we almost look the same
<pips1> "Philippine participants of Asia Source II" --> I count 19
<jsgotangco> that's actually 15 participants + 4 facilitators
<pips1> so what from what other countries did you have people?
<willvdl> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> hey willvdl
<jsgotangco> south asia and south east asia
<jsgotangco> pips1: we even had 3 delegates from egypt
<pips1> ha!
<pips1> how long have the camps been running?
<jsgotangco> 3 years
<highvoltage> s to the b to the a to the l to the n to the AV!
<sbalneav> Solve for X
<sbalneav> 42!
<sbalneav> I win the math bee!
<highvoltage> whohoo!
* edubuntugirl gives sbalneav the trophee
<sbalneav> Be happy it was the math bee I was competing in, and not the swimsuit competition.
<sbalneav> pptpd is causing me some consternation.
* RichEd shuts down his imagination before it cramps up on that image
<sbalneav> :)
<RichEd> hey scotty ... hows the U S of A ?
* sbalneav looks south of the border.
<sbalneav> Still there!
<sbalneav> Remember: I'm Canadian :)
<sbalneav> Now HERE, it's -21 C with a 2500 wind chill
<sbalneav> making it feel like it's -40
<sbalneav> Last week we had an overnight low of -52 C
<sbalneav> So, it's winter.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: what is pptpd?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: geez, I've never felt under 5 C before!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google pptpd
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'Poptop - Open Source PPTP Server', at http://www.poptop.org/
<sbalneav> Some whacky piece of junk to allow Windows (blech) to vpn into the network.
<sbalneav> The nice thing is, ubuntu comes with the MPPE compression module that it needs already build into the kernel, so \o/ for Ubuntu, yet again.
<sbalneav> ubuntu++
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ubuntu++
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: karma ubuntu
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: ubuntu has karma of 1
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ubuntu++
<highvoltage> lots of modules available out of the box for the default kernel++
<juliux> willvdl, hi check http://ubuntu.juliux.de/edubuntu_front.png a first idea
* willvdl looks
<juliux> willvdl, the text is still the old one from the ubuntu flyer
<willvdl> groovy. the logo page looks good
<willvdl> do you want help on the text?
<juliux> i will make the grafics and a german text
<juliux> i think we need a longer time to discuss what text should be on the flyer
<willvdl> groovy. lets put the question to the Mailing Lists. perhaps edubuntu-devel and ubuntu-marketing?
<juliux> good idea
<juliux> or next edubuntu meeting
<juliux> after monday i have more time
<willvdl> we can mention it there too but contributions will be offline
<juliux> ok
<willvdl> perhaps a wikipage linked off ubuntu-marketing wikispace jsut to decide what text to use
<juliux> i am not good enough in english to make the english text
<willvdl> juliux, nice front page, really. I had to look twice to realise it was the edubuntu one :)
<willvdl> juliux, no problem, I can translate
<juliux> so perhaps we can make headlines and the text can do every locoteam
<willvdl> or rather, "fix" any english you might not be happy with
<willvdl> oooh, a translation for each LoCo. yes.
<juliux> i will think about it over the weekend;)
<willvdl> good idea
<willvdl> how was your exam?
<juliux> last week was good
<juliux> but i have on saturday and one on monday
<willvdl> saturday? sucks
<willvdl> good luck
<juliux> yes saturday from 14:00-17:00
<juliux> last saturday the examen was 7:30
<juliux> so 14:00 is much better
<willvdl> definately. 7:30 on a saturday is cruel :)
<jaycie> hi.. im trying to find the simplest linux for me.. a newbie.. whats the diff between ubuntu and edubuntu?
<willvdl> jaycie, edubuntu is built on ubuntu
<jaycie> thanks willvdl.. yes..i think i read that.. is it any simpler for a newbie?
<willvdl> packaged slightly differently but with LTSP by default and educational applications
<willvdl> jaycie, Ubuntu itself is the most user-friendly linux distro out there
<jaycie> ok great
<willvdl> pop in a live CD and give it a go
<jaycie> ive usex dreaded windows since 1990 and it still stinks Laugh Out Loud
<willvdl> trust me, I'm not a doctor :)
<jaycie> i have ubunut on an OLD OLD p/c
<jaycie> just a bit leary to put it on all our newer ones. are there popups and spyware with linux os?
<jaycie> ubuntu i meant
<willvdl> nope.
<jaycie> awesome!
<willvdl> firefox can disable browser popups on windows and linux
<jaycie> i use that
<jaycie> i still get some but i have xp
<jaycie> the thing is i use a script to run a server/room and we use sound.. im not sure i can with linux
<RichEd> jaycie: you can kiss spyware cru goodbye when you get off the IE and MS combination
<RichEd> *crud not cru
<jaycie> i would take ie off my systems if i could but seems it is glued in but i don't use it Laugh Out Loud
<jaycie> main thing i use puter for now are card games and our mirc
<jaycie> is there any way to get any type of linux on an old laptop with ONLY a floppy?
<willvdl> floppy? or stiffy?
<willvdl> my word, that is an old PC
<jaycie> 3 1/4 i think ya call it
<jaycie> Laugh Out Loud willvdl
<jaycie> bout 10 years old.. nice for games i thot
<jaycie> digital hinote II
<highvoltage> willvdl: 'stiffy' is south african slang ;)
* RichEd tries not to imagine highvoltage holding a stiffy ;)
<willvdl> highvoltage, "slang" is an Afrikaans word. If it has been dead for a while, it could very well be a "stiffy"
<highvoltage> hehe!!
<highvoltage> klink soos 'n slang in die gras
<willvdl> highvoltage, al ooit die term "Boer jy alleen?" gehoor?
<highvoltage> willvdl: I think I have, not sure what it means though
<willvdl> dis Helen se nuwe gunstelling uitdrukking
<highvoltage> willvdl: but being a afrikaans term, I'm sure it's something dirty
* highvoltage sal dit vir helen se
<willvdl> ons het al klaar vir haar verduidelik in watter konteks dit aanvaarbaar sal wees
<highvoltage> hie hie
<willvdl> can you imagine
<willvdl> dit en "veruklik" (spelling?)
<highvoltage> arme helen
* RichEd vat sy slang en trek verreira
<RichEd> bye for today
<pips1> bye!
<willvdl> juliux, are you going to Linux Tag?
<juliux> willvdl, sure
<juliux> willvdl, i will organise a ubuntu and edubuntu booth
<willvdl> excellent, I've got an interesting contact for you. Will introduce over email
<juliux> willvdl, berlin is around 2h by car from dresden
<juliux> willvdl, ok
<willvdl> in the next few days
<willvdl> excellent!
<juliux> willvdl, jono will submit an ubuntu talk
<willvdl> alright
<willvdl> and RichEd?
<juliux> hehe
<juliux> 16th february is dealine
<willvdl> when is Linux Tag again?
<juliux> 30may-2june
<willvdl> thanks
<juliux> you are welcome;9
<cbx33> evening all
<juliux> evening cbx33
<cbx33> hi juliux
<juliux> cbx33, is there allready a ltcm version for testing?
<cbx33> not yet
<cbx33> after ogra has come back with changes
<cbx33> there should be one before the 8th
<juliux> if there is one let me know;
* willvdl whips cbx33...work harder !
<juliux> i have real test sstem now hier
<juliux> here
<cbx33> willvdl, I'm all out at the moment, everything is with ogra
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> the book chapter, tcm
* cbx33 has a night off totally tonight
<cbx33> hehehe I'm greedy
<willvdl> same here
<willvdl> these darn timezones
<willvdl> I'm going home now for the first time before 11pm this week
<juliux> have a nice evening willvdl
<cbx33> awww
<cbx33> have a good night willvdl
<willvdl> :)
<cbx33> take it easy
<cbx33> oh
<willvdl> mutter mutter :)
<cbx33> before you go...whip ogra first :p
<cbx33> hahaha
<willvdl> nah, I'm loving it
<willvdl> edubuntugirl: whip ogra
<edubuntugirl> willvdl: excuse me?
<cbx33> darn it highvoltage that's a very saught after feature
<willvdl> edubuntugirl: whip ogra_
<edubuntugirl> willvdl: *blink*
<willvdl> don't blink at me as if you don't know what I mean!
<willvdl> cbx33, is your book work online anywhere?
<cbx33> willvdl, no
<cbx33> as it's going to be published
<cbx33> I can't just throw it out
<willvdl> good point
<cbx33> but if you are keen to see it and check it through I can ask my editor if I can pass it onto you
<willvdl> nighty
<highvoltage> cbx33: /win 26
<highvoltage> oops
<froud> evening highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi froud
<froud> All quiet in JHB, hows CT
<highvoltage> CT is quieting down now. noisy during the day though.
<highvoltage> although from what I gather it's pretty much the same over there
<highvoltage> I'm going to jo'burg on tuesday evening
<highvoltage> not too thrilled about it though, since I'll have to be in jhb on my birthday :-/
<froud> oh dear, stop by for a drink I still have some black label you can help finish
<highvoltage> heh, will do
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: whip highvoltage
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: sorry...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: attack highvoltage
<edubuntugirl> I'm not a violent bot
<highvoltage> yeah sure
<froud> bar is stcoked just bring 802.11 card for net access
<highvoltage> I'll probably have 3 802.11 devices with me :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: hit highvoltage
<edubuntugirl> I'm not a violent bot
<froud> BDSM hey
<froud> :-)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: molest froud
<edubuntugirl> I don't know where it's been
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> I think she has some child protection feature enabled
<froud> I see you dont need the black label
<froud> Any chance you can drag Hilton over to my place with you?
<highvoltage> froud: maybe on Tuesday evening latish. he's going to Northern Cape on Wednesday night, I think he'll be there until friday
<highvoltage> froud: we might both be in joburg on friday evening again
<froud> highvoltage: I am busy witha few things related to nepad that may interest you guys, edubuntu and TL
<froud> I'd like your input, if possible
<highvoltage> froud: great. when are you coming to CT agin?
<froud> mate I'd love too but I am dripping work at presents
<highvoltage> froud: perhaps you should speak to willvdl and riched too, they are also involved in some of the nepad stuff, afaik
<froud> highvoltage: it's related
<highvoltage> I don't understand that phrase
<froud> highvoltage: speaking to will
<froud> but you know more eyes more ideas
<highvoltage> yeah
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: moo at froud
* edubuntugirl performs a random farmyard-noise
<highvoltage> hmmm.. at least that works
<froud> was over at Silver Oaks where they have edubuntu installed on 10 workstations
<froud> nice setup
<froud> but shame the server is RHEL
<highvoltage> RHEL can be an ok server.
<highvoltage> (if someone is actually willing to admin it)
<froud> Yah
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: whip cbx33
* edubuntugirl viciously attacks cbx33
* froud quickly puts on armour
<froud> Hey, let me know if you guys can stop by and discuss. Would be nice to see you again. Been awhile
* froud goes back to writing
<highvoltage> froud: indeed
<highvoltage> froud: we're reserving Tuesday accross the company to catch up with you-know-what
<highvoltage> froud: so it would be good if we can talk on tuesday evening :)
<froud> shweet!
<froud> Can I set it then?
<highvoltage> I'll ask hilton
<froud> kewl
<froud> lemme set you guys an invite and then you can change it if required
<highvoltage> ko
* froud goes off to egroupware
<froud> Tues the 6th, right?
<highvoltage> yep
* highvoltage attempts relaxation by puttin on a Smashing Pumpkins DVD
<highvoltage> froud: cheers! talk to you again later
<froud> cheers
<cbx33> heheheh thanks highvoltage
<cbx33> bbl
<pips1> cu guys
<juliux> cbx33, ping
<cbx33> juliux, I'll bbiab
<cbx33> pm me
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> all answer when i return :p
<juliux> cbx33, i only want rember you to change the emblem of edubuntu-school;)
<cbx33> oh yes
<cbx33> i was going to do that today
<juliux> thxs
* highvoltage fails at relaxing and plays with the ekiga pc to phone features
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 should get an ekiga account
<cbx33> oh wait i already have one ;)
<cbx33> hot dang
<cbx33> ping ogra
#edubuntu 2007-02-02
<Starshooot> hye
<Starshooot> is anybody here ?
<cliebow> firstclass client deb anyine?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<asarch> Hi everyone, how is it getting along?
<RichEd> greetz cbx33 ... busy responding to the Finland mail ... just waiting for advice on who handles the domain name approvals
<cbx33> hi RichEd
<cbx33> awesome
<RichEd> found this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy
<RichEd> keep that in mind if similar queries come up
<jsgotangco> yo
<cbx33> I will
<cbx33> thanks RichEd
<RichEd> yo gotangco
<cbx33> yo yo yo j-s-got-toe
* jsgotangco gives cbx33 a spelling book
<cbx33> it was more of arhyming thing ;)
<jsgotangco> how are you doing
<jsgotangco> its been like days since i last went on irc
<cbx33> yeh good
<cbx33> you?
<jsgotangco> just came from travel
<jsgotangco> pretty productive i might say
<RichEd> ! seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 9m 5s ago, quiting: "Verlassend"
<jsgotangco> RichEd: edu conference in May???
<jsgotangco> i am guessing this this the developer conf?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: waiting for 100 confirmation before annoncement, but thu fri 3,4 May seems like it is happening
<RichEd> UES thu, fri : UDS sun - fri the week after
<jsgotangco> so i get to be like invited or something? heh
<RichEd> feature spec & design etc. will still take place at UDS
<RichEd> UES will be for presentations on success stories to give govts and organisations considering FOSS or *buntu a high confidence level ... may be good for peoplee like Gina etc.
<RichEd> we'll announce properly next week. no rumourz to fly around before then please :)
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<jsgotangco> just keep me posted
* jsgotangco is energized after indonesia trip
<RichEd> we'll announce in #edubuntu and on the maling lists. there will be a call for papers as well.
* cbx33 is waiting to speak to ogra
<jsgotangco> kk
<cbx33> what'st the gnome partition editor?
<cbx33> OMW
<cbx33> I've been running on dapper on my work machine for months and never knew it wasn't edgy
<cbx33> ignore that
<cbx33> i was ssh'd into a dapper machine
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> i feel stoooopid now
<RichEd> !seen rodarvus
<ubotu> I last saw rodarvus (n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus) 14h 46m 33s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<cbx33> ping ogra
<SiCk> i have a wee question... :)
<jsgotangco> go ahead
<SiCk> anyone know how to tell each client to use a different homepage?
<SiCk> or if there's a command for firefox like --fullscreen -url:http://blah
<SiCk> etc
<ogra> accroding to firefox --help there is ...
<SiCk> i'm wanting to see if i can get specific clients automatically booting into a specific user and showing a specific page in fullscreen
<cbx33> ogra: any news on my two projects?
<cbx33> I'm planning to work over the weekend
<cbx33> so anything would be great
<SiCk> suppose ogra, i could set each profile a homepage..
<SiCk> good idea
<SiCk> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi SiCk
<cbx33> oooh SiCk i used to do that fullscreen thingy
<jsgotangco> what you mean is kiosk mode
<SiCk> yeah, that's what im after, im figuring firefox doesnt have -kiosk like IE does
<SiCk> well i just figured out all each profile has its own homepage and can be called with -p , so i just need to set that up on the chroot
<SiCk> hopefully.. :D
<jsgotangco> im sure it does with xul magic, but its not really that great to do for now
<jsgotangco> opera has better support for this
<juliux> can't you write firefox into the xession file? then it should only start firefox and nothing else
<jsgotangco> though
<SiCk> juliux: i have pretty much...
<SiCk> but i still get the address bar along the top
<juliux> SiCk, i am not sure if this is working with ltsp
<SiCk> yeah... that's what im thinking, but if all else fails, i can use them as workstations :P
<SiCk> a bit of tweaking and they might be okay though... i've come this far.
<juliux> SiCk, i can test this next week after my examens;9
<SiCk> that'd be great if you could
<SiCk> i'm just surprised firefox has no -kiosk
<SiCk> IE's -kiosk is wonderful
<jsgotangco> try it with Opera as well
<juliux> but IE is not a browser;9
<SiCk> yeah jsgotangco, i'll maybe give it a go
<jsgotangco> http://www.opera.com/support/mastering/kiosk/
<SiCk> ooh droolworthy
<SiCk> opera has profiles too doesnt it?
<cbx33> SiCk: tried googling for kiosk and firefox?
<jsgotangco> its pretty much full featured and definitely has better documentation
<SiCk> though
<SiCk> http://www.unc.edu/~payst/?p=2
<jsgotangco> but the only thing is that its non-free
<SiCk> yeah cbx33 just checked that.. haha
<cbx33> heheh
<SiCk> he's even using ltsp.. .scooore
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> howz it going
<bddebian> Blah.  You?
<cbx33> Bl0rk..
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> guess that makes us even
<bddebian> heh
<rodarvus> good morning
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: !
<rodarvus> jsgotangco!
<rodarvus> long time no see you
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: ive been travelling
<cstextiles> Is there any apt tool for windows which will download all the neccessary dependencies and that package so that it can be transferred to Windows PC Later on?
<cbx33> ping ogra_ ?
<cbx33> ping ogra_
<cbx33> !seen ogra_
<ubotu> ogra_ is on IRC right now!
#edubuntu 2007-02-03
* skirk Nanna Ninna 
<cbx33> ping ogra_
<cbx33> dang it.....where is edubuntugirl when you need her
<highvoltage> good question
<cbx33> highvoltage, ping
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> cbx33: pong
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<cbx33> highvoltage, i'll be back in a while if you're still here
<cbx33> need some advice
<highvoltage> I'll still be here, I'm just going to chat to someone for a minute, but fire away in the meantime
<highvoltage> (I might get some coffee too, have a *lot* of work to finish today)
<cbx33> ping highvoltage
<lemurfan> Can edubuntu conect to a wireless network?
<jsgotangco> yes
<lemurfan> How
<jsgotangco> hvae you configured wireless in linux before?
<jsgotangco> its pretty much the same
<lemurfan> no
<jsgotangco> the installer usually detects your wireless interface
<lemurfan> Just by plugging in my USB WiFi stick
<jsgotangco> do ifconfig and check if you have an additional interface after plugging it in
<lemurfan> Oh right
<cbx33> jsgotangco, doesn;'t iwconfig check for wireless?
<jsgotangco> ;)
<jsgotangco> yes for wireless speficially
<jsgotangco> but its still an interface whatever ;)
<cbx33> ahh rgiht o
<cbx33> edubuntugirl, tell highvoltage I'm here for the next hour or so....ping me when you're back
<edubuntugirl> Righto, cbx33!
<highvoltage> cbx33: ugh. I kept wondering when you were going to ping me back, but my irssi window got stuck when I momentarily lost my connection
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'I'm here for the next hour or so....ping me when you're back' 9 minutes and 21 seconds ago (on Sat Feb  3 16:01:03 2007)
<cbx33> haha
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> ping ogra_ herd3 LTSP build fails
<highvoltage> cbx33: really? that's quite a bummer :(
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> pulse audio
<meduxa> is anybody from edubuntu project attending to The International free software conference in Badajoz, Extremadura, Spain next week?
<meduxa> http://www.freesoftwareworldconference.com/
<cbx33> highvoltage, think I shuld LP bug that LTSP failure and assign it to ogra?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> highvoltage, done
<highvoltage> cbx33: reading that bug was weird, it feels like I'm reading it in my terminal :)
<highvoltage> (especially if you scroll at *just* the right speed)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> think i shoud add a description?
<cbx33> thought ogra_  would know the issue
<highvoltage> nah it's fine. there's nothing wrong with it, it just looks funny
<lemurfan> How do you get WiFi to work
<lemurfan> Can someone help me please
<paolob> Hi ogra_ ! I resolved the problem with the mounting failures: it was due to electromagnetic interferences from two inverters situated very near to the net wiring.
<cbx33> paolob, wow
<cbx33> neat problem
<paolob> cbx33, I wrote something in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWiring , but is worth a check with the language...
<cbx33> nice
<paolob> andk I think it would be better to put a section in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/TroubleShooting
<cbx33> coulkd the clients still talk to the network before
<highvoltage> paolob: interesting problem :)
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: choose go to punk rock show tonight or work through it
<edubuntugirl> I choose work through it, highvoltage
<highvoltage> she never lets me have any fun.
<paolob> Here in Dominican Republic every pc must have an inverter, and I suppose many more 3rd world countries have the same situation
<highvoltage> paolob: what kind of power do you use there?
<highvoltage> here in South Africa it's just 230V 50hz power
<highvoltage> (well, supposed to be 230V but during peak times in winter it drops quite a bit)
<paolob> highvoltage, 110 V
<paolob> 60 Hz
<paolob> I think it's the USA standard
<paolob> economically we are a USA satellite
<highvoltage> aaha
<highvoltage> I don't quite understand what the inverters are for though
<paolob> an inverter is an electrical power source with deep cycle batteries
<paolob> Here we have power some 12-14 hours a day, mainly in the night
<highvoltage> wow, that's real interesting. those deep cycle batteries must be extremely expensive
<juliux> evening
<highvoltage> hey jules
<cbx33> hi juliux
<juliux> only two examens to go;
* highvoltage goes against edubuntugirl's decision
<highvoltage> bye!
<paolob> highvoltage, a 6 V 225 Ah battery costs some  US$100.00, and a 3.5 KV inverter costs some US$1,000
<highvoltage> paolob: does it get enough chance to charge fully while the power is up?
<juliux> cbx33, if you have time take a look at http://ubuntu.juliux.de/edubuntu_back.png and http://ubuntu.juliux.de/edubuntu_front.png
<paolob> highvoltage, yes, it charges the batteries in 3-4 hours
<cbx33> ooooh nice juliux
<juliux> cbx33, the text is still the one from the ubuntu flyer
<cbx33> coool
<cbx33> did you ever see our edubuntu lealet?
<cbx33> leaflet
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> want a copy?
<cbx33> what's your email
<juliux> you mean the leaflet for the BETT ?
<cbx33> yeh
<juliux> i get this one allready
<cbx33> ok
<juliux> but i personal don't like flyers in din a4
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> but was thining you may like the text from it
<juliux> yes
<juliux> i will playaorund with the flyer in the next days
<cbx33> and you could take the characters too if you wanted them
<juliux> i will play around with the flyer;9
<juliux> after monday i have a little bit more time
<cbx33> highvoltage, that bug is because the pulse audio pacakge isn't in main yet
<cbx33> well the seound compat one anyway
<elmo40> good afternoon (EST) I was wondering what kind of hardware requirements Edubuntu has.
<elmo40> CPU & RAM (I have hdd space)
<elmo40> using Gnome or KDE will demand a decent amount of RAM. I only have 256Mb
<cbx33> seen the new edubuntu artwork peeps
<cbx33> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/Palette
<juliux> cbx33, the ldm theme is cool
<juliux> h gdm
<elmo40> no one is willing to help me? I am inquiring about CPU & RAM requirements for Edubuntu.
<airjump> hello
<lemurfan> How do you setup wireless internet
<lemurfan> Can anyone help please
<elmo40> typical ubuntu crap... full room, yet no one tries to help.
<cbx33> hi elmo40
<elmo40> hi
<cbx33> elmo40 sorry dude you gotta understand it's a weekend
<cbx33> and edubuntu is a pretty small community
<elmo40> i understand completely
<cbx33> compare that with ubuntu.......1040 people in the room
<cbx33> anyway
<cbx33> how can I help
<elmo40> i am on 4 other channels, 3 linux, one something else.
<elmo40> they all are chatting
<elmo40> all i asked was how CPU intensive is Edubuntu with their current WM's
<elmo40> what do you suggest is minimum
<cbx33> hmm
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, cbx33 told me to tell you 'hi' 1 minutes and 0 seconds ago (on Sat Feb  3 21:46:58 2007)
<elmo40> i wanted to make a computer for my daughter, it is OLD (celeron 466 w/256 RAM)
<cbx33> what a minimum CPU for what edubuntu server or thin client?
<cbx33> thanks edubuntugirl
<elmo40> thin client?? this is not a standalone distro?
<cbx33> yeh is it
<elmo40> oh
<cbx33> but it is able to do a complete Linux Terminal Server Project
<elmo40> so not what i wanted then
<elmo40> oh well
<elmo40> i didnt know it was an ltsp
<elmo40> that will help me with a different project ;)
<cbx33> well it does both
<cbx33> it's not one or the other.....it is both
<elmo40> then my question remains... min CPU?
<elmo40> P3?
<cbx33> should be fine
<cbx33> wht speed?
<juliux> elmo40, you can run ubuntu/edubuntu with 800mhz and 256mb
<cbx33> there ya go
<cbx33> ;)
<elmo40> hrmm, ok.
<juliux> elmo40, it works with 256mb ram but more is better
<elmo40> still kinda out of my league :-P
<cbx33> what ya got elmo40?
<cbx33> and what ya after?
<elmo40> maybe i should try DSL
<cbx33> what about puppy
<elmo40> i wanted a distro, with education apps on it, for this OLD celerey 466 :/
<cbx33> that's an awesome distro
<cbx33> ahhh
<cbx33> i see
<elmo40> trying puppy right now ;) Works nice.
<cbx33> is it stand alone?
<elmo40> ya, all by itself
<elmo40> well, i have 3 of them (maybe i should cluster it) LOL
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> if you can get a slightly higher powered one
<cbx33> you could do an LTSP edubuntu setup
<elmo40> all of them are Dell OptiPlex GX100's
<cbx33> got to go
<cbx33> bye
#edubuntu 2007-02-04
<eroniusmaximus> Hello People.
<eroniusmaximus> I would like some help,
<eroniusmaximus> I'm new to Linux and I want to know how to install Edubuntu
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> are you wanting to put Edubuntu on regular machine?
<LaserJock> or do you want to create a thin client server?
<eroniusmaximus> err
<eroniusmaximus> regular laptop
<eroniusmaximus> duel boot - so that i can use XP too
<eroniusmaximus> i downloaded the Edubuntu ISO,
<LaserJock> ok, have you burned it to a CD yet?
<eroniusmaximus> not yet
<LaserJock> what version did you download 6.06 or 6.10?
<eroniusmaximus> 6.10
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> so do you know how to burn an .iso image?
<eroniusmaximus> ya.
<eroniusmaximus> i have to get my ass out of bed to go to the convie to get a CD tho,
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so right now XP is taking up the whole hard drive?
<nixternal> hehe
<eroniusmaximus> yeh
<LaserJock> ok, well you'll want to make some room first
<eroniusmaximus> do i just stick the linux CD in and it will repartition and install and do everything
<LaserJock> well, it can
<LaserJock> but it's safer to resize the XP partition from XP, in my opinion
<LaserJock> I used Partition Magic to do it with my laptop
<eroniusmaximus> ok
<LaserJock> so you want to be very careful with partitions
<eroniusmaximus> the drive is NTFS, is that ok
<LaserJock> yep
<eroniusmaximus> i repartition with Partition Magic and leave several Gigabytes unassigned, or?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> how big is your hard drive?
<eroniusmaximus> 25gb 25gb 2.5gb
<eroniusmaximus> c d e
<LaserJock> 1 hard drive with 3 partitions?
<eroniusmaximus> i dunno, the laptop came like that
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm guessing so, laptops generally don't have more than one hard drive I don't think
<LaserJock> so do you have stuff on all 3?
<eroniusmaximus> ya
<LaserJock> can you move stuff to make one free?
<eroniusmaximus> ill do it on D
<eroniusmaximus> not empty,
<eroniusmaximus> but D currently has 8GB free
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'd try something like Parition Magic then. That's a fairly complicated partitioning structure
<eroniusmaximus> ok
<eroniusmaximus> so, what does Edubuntu offer
<cliebow> what doesnt it 8~)\
<cliebow> wicked good support
<cliebow> 8`)
<eroniusmaximus> hehe
<eroniusmaximus> i figured there isn' much reason why i shouldn't use linux instead of windows
<cliebow> there are a lot of edu programs for windows i havgnt gotten runing on linux..lexia comes to mind...
<cliebow> ticks me off
<eroniusmaximus> Eh, does Partition Magic cost money? :S
<eroniusmaximus> Eh, Does Edubuntu automatic update?
<cliebow> yes..will more or less self update..very reliable as well
<eroniusmaximus> Is it better than Windows Vista
<cliebow> eroniusmaximus:No you are far better off with windows
<cliebow> i know when i been had
<eroniusmaximus> eh
<highvoltage> elmo40: hey there, did you get an answer about the CPU and RAM?
<highvoltage> ah, seems like you did
<smile> huh
<stgraber> morning
<smile> Is Edubuntu just for schools?
<smile> Should I install Ubuntu rather than Edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> no not really
<jsgotangco> if you want the educational apps you can install edubuntu
<jsgotangco> but even if you are in ubuntu, you can install the education apps
<eroniusmaximus> so installing ubuntu plus tools is the same as installing edubuntu
<highvoltage> eroniusmaximus: basially, yes
<highvoltage> eroniusmaximus: edubuntu is almost like a quick ubuntu setup for schools
<highvoltage> eroniusmaximus: you can do all of it manuallyin ubuntu, but edubuntu is the turnkey solution
<elmo40> highvoltage: i did get some answers. just not the ones i was looking for :-P
<elmo40> what are the apps called that edubuntu uses so i can install them in a 'regular' ubuntu computer?
<highvoltage> elmo40: the easiest way to get them all is to install the edubuntu-desktop package
<rbs-tito> Hi
<elmo40> highvoltage: that is good to know :)
<elmo40> this package is available in the regular repo's?
<rbs-tito> Does anyone know of someone I can talk to, I'm looking to write about Edubuntu for Linux+ DVD magazine and was hoping to get an interview from someone involved with the project.
<elmo40> it has been dead in here for a while... i suggest leaving your contact info and someone will get back to ya.
<rbs-tito> Leaving my contact information here?
<rbs-tito> I'm Roberto Sarrionandia, you can reach me on irc.freenode.net as rbs-tito, or contact me through email rbs.tito@yahoo.co.uk
<elmo40> someone will read this, inform the correct channels
<highvoltage> elmo40: yes, it is
<highvoltage> rbs-tito: you will most probably want to talk to Richard Weideman
<elmo40> rbs-tito: what brought you to write about edubuntu?
<highvoltage> rbs-tito: he is the education manager for Canonical: richard@ubuntu.com
<rbs-tito> OK, I'll write an email. I am interested in Edubuntu and have been working with my local government to get it introduced into schools; I also write for a magazine and thought the publicity would do it good
<elmo40> where is this 'local' gov't? ;) I am in Canada
<rbs-tito> Pembrokeshire, Wales, the United Kingdom
<cbx33> hey all
<cbx33> ping ogra_
<nixternal> hrmm, I need to edit a wiki page w.e.o/EdubuntuHandbook but it is locked, what gives :)
<nixternal> hiya cbx33
<nixternal> heh, how do you log into the Edubuntu wiki? am I that e.tarded that I don't see, or do you currently have it on lockdown
<cbx33> nixternal hmm
<cbx33> it shouldn't be
<cbx33> lemme see
<nixternal> every page says "Locked Page" for me
<cbx33> are you logged in?
<nixternal> I have no clue, I don't even see a login button
<cbx33> hehe
<nixternal> gahaha
<nixternal> shush, i see it
<cbx33> hehe
* cbx33 pokes nixternalin jest
<nixternal> MAKE IT BIGGER
<cbx33> yeh i know
<cbx33> that has been said many a time
<nixternal> heh, I can't believe I studied that header for a good 2 minutes
<cbx33> hehe :p
<nixternal> the one bad thing about IRC, I can scroll up and erase my e.tardedness :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> it will be importalised for ever
<cbx33> immortalised
<cbx33> damn it
<cbx33> now I'm stooopid too
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> Alrighty, I have gone through and cleaned up the Handbook, added a little content, and straightened out the chapters.
<nixternal> There are still quite a few sections needing someone to adopt them and rock and roll
<nixternal> I also fixed the Makefiles to start building Edubuntu docs again. I need to fix the sidebar at doc.ubuntu.com to include Edubuntu docs. So far so good though
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: nixternal++
<highvoltage> nixternal: do you have a link perhaps, or is it in subversion somewhere?
<nixternal> subversion is on the Ubuntu Doc Project server now
<nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<Burgundavia> triaging compiz bugs is fun!
<highvoltage> hey burgs
<bronze> I thought triage was a special kind of foiliage....
<highvoltage> only when bugs grow on trees
<bronze> "tree-age"  pruning a corrupted B-tree.
<Burgundavia> the really fun part of about compiz is the sheer number of non-standard packages
<Burgundavia> thankfully the xgl craze has died away
<Burgundavia> mostly I just have to deal with gandalfns packages now
<nixternal> alrighty, release notes updated, doc.ubuntu.com sidebar updated, and working on creating the initial Edubuntu 7.04 doc package
<pygi> edubuntugirl, tell ogra to poke me once he's around pls, thanks
<edubuntugirl> Righto, pygi!
#edubuntu 2008-01-28
<coz_> hey guys... where can I download the official desktop background for edubuntu?
<LaserJock> coz_: well, the easiest way would be to get the edubuntu-artwork .deb and unpack it I think
<coz_> LaserJock, ok let me try to find that    thanks :)
<LaserJock> coz_: what version do you want?
<coz_> LaserJock, well I was looking to get ahold of thet world map background on the chaulkboard  image
<LaserJock> hmm
<coz_> LaserJock, I know the easiest way is just to install edubuntu :)
<LaserJock> nah
<coz_> mm I downloaded the recent pacakge of edubuntu-artwork and tha image is not there
<LaserJock> coz_: you might try https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/i386/edubuntu-artwork/0.1.0-53
<LaserJock> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/i386/edubuntu-artwork/0.1.0-48
<coz_> LaserJock, ok  I am there  let me see if its there :)
<LaserJock> or possibly https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/edgy/i386/edubuntu-artwork/0.1.0-45
<coz_> LaserJock, mm I think the edgy one might be it   let me try that
<LaserJock> coz_: bah, actually you want https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuArtwork/DefaultDesktops
<coz_> AH!  yes
<coz_> LaserJock, :) thanks guy
<LaserJock> np
<coz_> LaserJock, i think the last time I used edubuntu was indeed the edgy version
<sakhi> hi
<sakhi> all
<sakhi> vistakiller: how do you kill vista?
<vistakiller> i dont know :P
<vistakiller> you go to xxx site :D
<RichEd> sakhi: seems my @ubuntu.com is not getting through ... i'll send you another address
<vistakiller> visit*
<RichEd> please repost whatever you sent
<sakhi> RichEd: ok, will do.
<sakhi> RichEd: How is it going?
<RichEd> sakhi: well but busy
<Nubae> anyone know if flash support works in 64 bit gutsy yet, or should I stick to gnash
<Nubae> specifically does pulse audio work
<RichEd> Nubae: ask across in #ubuntu ... that's more a base operating system question than the edubuntu layer
<Nubae> well, I want it to work in my thin clients :-)
<Nubae> right now I have gnash installed because that allows pulse audio for pages like youtube to work, but there are many flash apps on other sites that don't work... this is why I'm asking
<RichEd> Nubae: ogra should be able to help ... but he is not well today, and may not be responsive
<Nubae> ok, I'll look at the mailing list archives, that should give me an answer if anything has changed...
<RichEd> our LTSP is the latest one from #ltsp though, so you could try to ask over there ... sbalneav or jammcq are good to ask
<LaserJock> morning all
<stgraber> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> RichEd, ogra: see my emails to edubuntu-{devel,users}?
<calimer-> I'm interested in getting some free educational software that lets kids design their own games into edubuntu, does anyone know who I could talk to about that?
<pygi> calimer, you could talk with us :)
<pygi> what do you mean by "design their own games into edubuntu" ? :)
<LaserJock> calimer: well, you might just want to look through the software repos
<calimer> that sounds great :D
<calimer> http://Kids.PlatinumArts.Net shows it off a bit better
<calimer> but basically the idea is that they can create their own 3D worlds in real time
<calimer> it is already being used in a few schools and more want it in
<calimer> I just made a new release yesterday so that's why the DL numbers look low
<calimer> it was late last night actually
<calimer> I didn't really want to promote it so much before since it had a bit of kid friendly stuff left to go
<calimer> but now all of that is set
<calimer> it could use some more cleaning but it is so far beyond the last release
<LaserJock> ohhhhh
<LaserJock> sorry, I thought you were asking if any such software existed
<LaserJock> you want to get it *into* Edubuntu
<calimer> if you have heard of cube 2 or sauerbraten, it is that engine kidified
<calimer> yes
<calimer> it's free and open source
<LaserJock> what is the License?
<calimer> mainly GPL like
<calimer> basically if you do cool stuff to the engine let me put it in sandbox to make it better
<LaserJock> heh, "mainly"?
<calimer> some content needs the permission of the authors if you use it in other projects
<calimer> but it is all licensed for sandbox
<LaserJock> hmm, we might have to look into that
<calimer> no worries and if anything about the license bothers you tell me
<calimer> I'm definitely up for cleaning it up
<calimer> I mainly care about getting it out there for kids to use
<LaserJock> that's very nice of you
<calimer> well this is a personal project of big importance to me
<calimer> I work with kids for my job
<calimer> and now the schools that I work at want to get sandbox in there
<calimer> so I can't wait to show the kids I've worked with for a while now and such
<calimer> and I have gotten to see a lot of kids personally use it too and it is such a blast
<calimer> i used it to teach at a kids camp over the summer on how to make games, ages 11-17 and they loved it
<calimer> and a middle school in illinois is using it and the guy wrote me today that one student in particular is going CRAZY with it
<calimer> which to me is the greatest reward I could have
<calimer> I even have some screens from 6 and 7 year old sisters who made a little house, it is so cute to imagine them making stuff
<wwwojcieh> it is very intresting
<calimer> I work at the high school sometimes too and I had girls that were like 17 and 18 that were also really interested in it!!
<calimer> I was surprised
<calimer> here are screens from the 6 and 7 year old
<calimer> http://www.kids.platinumarts.net/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,46/catid,5/
<calimer> these are screens from the 8 year old girl I babysat over the summer
<calimer> http://www.kids.platinumarts.net/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,46/catid,3/
<LaserJock> calimer: hmm, well it *is* going to need a license statement in the source, preferably in a COPYING file in the top level directory
<calimer> can explain exactly what that means please
<LaserJock> well, there actually isn't anything that I can see in the .zip file that explicitly has the license
<LaserJock> it's also good to put the license in each source file
<calimer> it is PlatinumArtsSandboxLicense.txt
<calimer> maybe I should rename it to license.txt
<calimer> ah interesting idea with the source file
<calimer> but honestly I don't really care that much how it is used
<LaserJock> yes, but we have legal liability
<calimer> just that if someone tries to make a commercial product with it for example I would want access to their source so I could use the code to improve sandbox
<LaserJock> hmm
<calimer> and credit our project so that it helps it get it out there
<calimer> but yeah I'm willing to do whatever license cleanup especially if that is the only thing holding sandbox back from getting in
<calimer> also the cube2 engine does have a zlib liscence which is in the src directory
<calimer> sorry it is kind of confusing with the licenses
<LaserJock> I think we already have sauerbraten in the repos
<LaserJock> ah, but it is in Multiverse, which is the non-free repo
<calimer> sandbox is more focus on the game creation aspects of the cube 2 engine
<calimer> as opposed to the DM sauer focuses on
<calimer> and also sauer is not for kids, haha
<calimer> and it doesn't have carts :D
<LaserJock> calimer: do you just use the sauerbraten engine or content too?
<calimer> sandbox is based on the sauerbraten/cube 2 engine
<calimer> as far as content some of the content is similar but I licensed it from those people individually
<calimer> and put in appropriate readmes for directories
<calimer> the license for sauer/cube 2 is zlib and is in the src directory
<calimer> btw members of the sauer/cube 2 community do contribute to the project and look through all the files and such
<calimer> sandbox is not my first project so I'm decently experienced in making sure I have all proper permissions
<LaserJock> ok, so all the sauerbraten/cube 2 stuff is zlib?
<calimer> yes
<calimer> and pertains only to the src directory
<calimer> there is no actual sauer content taken and "assumed" to be zlib
<LaserJock> and the rest is the PlatinumArts license?
<calimer> all textures, models, etc, I got permission for on an individual basis
<calimer> yep
<calimer> well
<LaserJock> ok, now those textures and models, are there licenses for them?
<calimer> except for stuff mentioned in the readmes :)
<calimer> yes
<calimer> all included in their respective folders
<LaserJock> well, there's a lot of folders ;-)
<calimer> yeah, was there something you needed to look out for specifically?
<calimer> mainly people asked that if their stuff was used in projects other than sandbox that permission is asked
<calimer> and some didn't want their stuff to be used commercially
 * pygi likes how this looks
<calimer> cool pygi I hope you enjoy it :D
<pygi> haha, calimer, you just need to make sure it's completely free, and you should be fine to bug somebody to package it up =)
<LaserJock> calimer: well, that makes them non-free
 * pygi agrees with LaserJock 
<calimer> how is it nonfree?
<LaserJock> because for them to be free any of our users must be free to modify them
<LaserJock> we cannot discriminate against people who want to use the software commercially and it must be free for modification
<calimer> I don't think there would be any problems modifying them but if they want to sell it then that could be a problem
<calimer> they would just have to use other content to substitute for whatever
<calimer> I mean they can just find their own texture set
<pygi> calimer, why cant you replace it with some free texture sets?
<LaserJock> so, that means that it will be considered non-free for placement in the repo
<calimer> or make one
<LaserJock> it can be included in Multiverse though
<calimer> we did have some free ones but they looked ugly
<calimer> and if you know any good ones I'm certainly interested
<pygi> calimer, make a call on webpage for art folks, I'm sure some would help
<calimer> I mean this is all a big learning experience for me oto
<calimer> but I had to have SOMETHING in there so the kids could make stuff
<calimer> most of the textures are freely distributable
<calimer> this is the main thing that is a little hmm and it is in the texture pack
<calimer> Some images found in this archive were not created by me. These images were obtained from a number of sources on the Internet that labeled them as "freely distributable". Some of the authors of these graphics may not approve if the graphics are used commercially.
<calimer> the texture pack folder
<LaserJock> right
<calimer> also this folder can be deleted
<calimer> rorschach
<calimer> he just says he'd prefer it if you didn't edit his textures
<calimer> none are being used in sandbox, I left it in there by accident when I was looking for good textures to use
<LaserJock> alright, well as-is this would be non-free and got to Multiverse
<LaserJock> which means it can be in the archive and users can get it, but it wouldn't be shipped in Edubuntu
<calimer> I don't know the extent of what that means but it is good that it is getting in in general
<calimer> what is the archive?
<calimer> and what would it need to be shipped with edubuntu?
<LaserJock> the software repository, where all the Ubuntu software is
<calimer> ah so sounds pretty good anyway
<LaserJock> it would have to be considered "free"
<calimer> what is the specific definition of free?
<LaserJock> well, it would be not disallowing commercial use
<calimer> and btw I think the edubuntu project in general is an awesome idea
<LaserJock> here's some better info than what I can say ;-)
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
<calimer> especially this idea "	 Linux for Young Human Beings "
<calimer> okay
<LaserJock> and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
<calimer> I can see what I can do about catering to that
<LaserJock> I mean, we definitely prefer "free" but Multiverse would at least get it accessible to Ubuntu/Edubuntu users
<calimer> I think I'd have a hard time in general with that
<calimer> especially since people want to know if the models get used in other projects
<LaserJock> yep
<calimer> maybe we could have a basic "free" version and they content packs to DL
<calimer> then
<LaserJock> I'm not gonna tell you what to do, I definitely have sympathy about not wanting commercialization of your hard work, but our users expect us to not change policies ;-)
<calimer> well it isn't me
<LaserJock> I know
<calimer> it is just SOME content would have to be replaced for a commercial project
<calimer> so how does that sound
<calimer> create a basic free version and then have content packs you could DL
<LaserJock> well, you could do a "free" version that was GPL or MIT that'd be just lovely
<calimer> so all "not used for commerical stuff" would be in thatcontent pack
<LaserJock> yeah
<calimer> I think GPL mainly follows what I want anyway
<calimer> just any cool stuff they do to the source let me use it to enhance sandbox
<LaserJock> yeah, the GPL means they have to use GPL, which is fine for you
<calimer> seperating the two shouldn't be too tough
<calimer> the free version vs content pack specifically
<LaserJock> I think you might get something out of sending an email to edubuntu-users
<LaserJock> there are a lot of educators on that list and they might give you some good ideas/support as well
<calimer> that sounds awesome
<LaserJock> also, the MOTU Games team is sort of the people that'd most likely be interested in working on the actual packaging of it
<calimer> is that a mailing list?
<LaserJock> yep, go to http://lists.ubuntu.com
<calimer> this sounds great and something I'm definitely interested in
<calimer> a lot of this is new to me and I'm really glad I came to you guys about this
<calimer> and thanks for the help with it too
<LaserJock> well, we appreciate people who care about free software for kids
<calimer> I think I would definitely fall into that category, haha
<calimer> there really isn't any program out there that I know of that makes game making or even 3D designing accessable to kids
<calimer> so that is really why I wanted to make this and when I played with sauer the lightbulb turned on
<LaserJock> you might be interested in http://wiki.debian.org/Games/Development
<LaserJock> for games Debian and Ubuntu are collaborating
<LaserJock> they would be a good group to talk to about making a free version
<calimer> I'll have to list of all of this stuff to check out
<LaserJock> as they are used to specifically working on games
<calimer> going to put it in my todo list right now
<LaserJock> alright, well I need to get back to research
<LaserJock> and I'm about at the limit of my game packaging knowledge
<calimer> thanks for all of your help, let's chat again sometime
<LaserJock> good luck to you, I'll look forward to seeing this in Ubuntu
<calimer> me too :)
<calimer> I was looking through the content and a lot of textures are all set and I would just have to remove a bunch of models and put them in the content pack
<calimer> should be pretty easy to do
<john_s> hello all, I am trying to install and use kde4 on edubuntu/Gutsy can anyone point me at a howto? I've installed kde4-core and have kde in listed in "sessions" at login, when I log in i see the splash start to load and then I am dumped to the greeter again.
<johnny> kde 4 is still in devel
<johnny> watch for falling bugs
<john_s> indeed
<johnny> i doubt you'll get any help for kde 4
<johnny> here
<john_s> I was wondering if anyone had been trying it out
<johnny> try the kde folks directly
<john_s> ahh
<johnny> not me
<johnny> you're not expecting kde4 to be as functional as kde3 are you?
<johnny> kde 4.0 that is
<johnny> hopefully 4.1 will be
<john_s> No, not necessarily, I am sure that it has a long way to go, but I am interested to see it in action.
<johnny> a livecd would be best prolly
<johnny> if they have one
<john_s> They do.
<johnny> i'm sure somebody has made one
<johnny> that's just my personal opinion .. i dont' represent edubuntu at all
<john_s> That's fine. I appreciate your advice. I think I'll keep looking into it yet. This box is a development box and I am interested in seeing what I can get going.
<johnny> it won't even make it into hardy
<john_s> Production is 7.06
<johnny> last i heard at least
<john_s> Oh, that I didn't know. I thought they were aiming for inclusion in Hardyt
<johnny> no.. becuase it can't meet parity with kde3
<johnny> feature wise
<johnny> or bug wise for that matter i'm sure
<john_s> sure
<johnny> they aren't going to release something less functional than what is already available
<john_s> a fine idea indeed!
<john_s> ok, well thanks again, I am off.
<johnny> you're welcome
<LaserJock> hmm, too late. I've got KDE4 going in Edubuntu
<johnny> maybe he's in #kde?
<john_s> hello all: I am trying to get to the tty  from  my thinclient doing ctrl + alt + F2 (etc) gets me an un-responsive desktop, ctrl + alt = f7 gets me my current (responsive) desktop back.  Currently running gutsy
<LaserJock> ah, you're back
<LaserJock> did you get any info on KDE4?
<john_s> ouch: I guess I can't switch tty's from inside the gnome environment either.
<john_s> dunno if someone responded to my query but I had to kill x and restart so I didn't see it if anyone did respond
<LaserJock> john_s: no, I just asked if you got any info on KDE4
<LaserJock> I'm not sure about the tty situation
<john_s> LaserJock: sorry, I was mucking about
<john_s> yeah I have kde4 installed and it looks pretty cute logging in from the server, haven't gotten it to work on the TC yet. Thats why I am trying to get to the tty so I can see any error messages. None are being logged to the server AKAICT
<john_s> brb
<john_s> yikes: what a trip
<john_s> I think I am realizing that xdmcp is broken in gutsy
<john_s> boy, I am having one avenue after another blocked here
<LaserJock> why are you using xdmcp?
<john_s> Well, I confirmed that kde4 is running when I logged into the server itself, but that it fails when I try to log in from a thin client, so I wanted to check out the logs on the TC but I couldn't get a local tty for some reason. Ah Ha! I said, I'll try an xdmcp session and try to run kde4, perhaps I'll be able to narrow the scope of this problem, but xdmcp is apparently broken in Gutsy
<john_s> I use xdmcp sometimes to manage remote LTSP's on the LAN so its useful to have
<john_s> Hopefully it gets fixed someday
<john_s> I see there is a project to have kubuntu get the edubuntu treatment, I assume this isn't part of the mainstream edubuntu track?
<LaserJock> well, I'd say yes and no
<john_s> LaserJock: a very even-handed response!
<LaserJock> I don't think it's an official goal exactly but people are welcome to work on it
<john_s> yah. As I understand it there is only 1 full time developer supported by Canonical?
<LaserJock> yep, ogra
<john_s> That's pretty amazing. Do you have an idea how big the entire paid development team is for Ubuntu?
<john_s> Anyway it would be nice if we could find a way to support more folks to work on Edubuntu. I suppose there are folks looking into that (grants and what not)
<LaserJock> hmm
<stgraber> Edubuntu moving as an add-on on top of Ubuntu will greatly reduce the amount of work and testing that we currently have, as the only part which will be "Edubuntu" will actually be educational apps + artwork
<LaserJock> I think it's probably around 30 paid people for all *buntu
<john_s> I see. stgraber: is that where it's heading?
<LaserJock> actually, it maybe be more than that with recent hires
<LaserJock> john_s: yes LTSP has already moved to the Ubuntu .iso (Alternate Cd I think)
<john_s> LaserJock: ok. It seems like there must be a lot of edubuntu users out there. I wonder what they represent as a percentage of the ubuntu install base?
<LaserJock> john_s: in the next few weeks the transition should be made to the Edubuntu disks
<stgraber> the distro team list I have here is 35 names long, but I know it's incomplete and Ubuntu != Distro team
<john_s> wow, so that means that Ogra will only have to polish the edu related parts?
<LaserJock> john_s: "only" ? :-)
<john_s> touche'
<LaserJock> right now I think he's also doing most of the LTSP work, but he is supposed to be transitioned out of that
<john_s> LaserJock: so does someone else come in or does that greater "ubuntu transition" take care of that?
<stgraber> yes, IIRC the plan is to have scott to do LTSP integration in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> john_s: I think the idea is to have the Server Team more or less handle LTSP and related server infrastructure
<john_s> hm. Interesting. Here's hoping it keeps getting the kind of attention it has been. I have really struggled with/appreciated the work so far :-)
<stgraber> all the specs like Active Directory-like infrastructure, Edubuntu auth server/client, ... will now be assigned to the Server team (done with the OpenLDAP integration)
<john_s> stgraber: interesting again. We use AD for auth, but I hope to eventually move the domain when I feel like the back end tools are mature enough for a non guru to use
<stgraber> yes, that's the current problem, we have OpenLDAP but what we now need is a good frontend on top of it
<stgraber> (mass user creation, user/computer management, ...)
<john_s> yeah. Didn't read hat have a front-end that they bought and shared a couple of years ago. hmm I see "fedora-directory-server" that might be it
<john_s> I wonder where samba 4 is in all this?
<stgraber> alpha2 is out, I haven't tried it though
#edubuntu 2008-01-29
<john_s> stgraber: yeah, me neither. I don't know much about it except that it was supposed to be able to be a PDC/Fully participating catalog server in  a domain
<john_s> well, anyway I appreciate the chat. You wouldn't know how to get to a tty from a thin client would you?
<john_s> When I do alt+ctrl+f2 (or f3,f4 etc) the screen locks up on me)
<stgraber> you may try to boot it in console mode, then starting X by hand
<stgraber> SCREEN_07=shell (not sure for the 07, could be 06)
<stgraber> anyway, it's past 1am here and I have to wake up early tomorrow :)
<john_s> Ahh, I need to edit ldm.conf its coming back to me.
<john_s> stgraber: ok, thanks!
<john_s> bye
<y_> Aside from the whole thin-client thing, what is the difference between EDU and Ubuntu?
<LaserJock> well, different artwork and theming of course
<LaserJock> and a good selection of educational applications
<LaserJock> generally Edubuntu is just more geared around education
<LaserJock> including the community
<LaserJock> but of course we share a lot with Ubuntu being a part of the same project
<LaserJock> y_: does that answer your question enough?
<y_> Yes, I think so.
<y_> Is there a built-in system for sharing users or do I need LDAP?
<y_> (sharing users in a lab, that is)
<y_> JaserJock ^
<y_> err
<y_> LaserJock ^
<LaserJock> well, for thin clients it's not much of an issue for in lab since they're all on the same server
<LaserJock> but LDAP is used quite a bit
<y_> LaserJock -- I don't want thin clients because the lab isn't really archaic hardware.
<y_> LaserJock -- They've got big enough disks and computing power, plus the strain on the network would make an already bad situation worse.
<y_> But I had problems LDAP (importing the existing groups, specifically)
<y_> I am also wondering if an upgrade to 7.10 is in order before all of this, or if there is some configuration option for labs that doesn't include thin-clients
<LaserJock> no, currently basically nothing is done for non-thinclient machines
<y_> I read this on the website, LaserJock
<LaserJock> they are assumed to be basically just home machines with educational applications, however they are no worse than an Ubuntu machine
<y_> "New pre-configured installation options have been added to the Ubuntu Server CD. Mail Server, File Server, Print Server, and Database Server options join existing LAMP and DNS options for pre-configured installations, easing the deployment of common server configurations."
<y_> (about 7.10)
<y_> wow, totally read LAMP as LDAP. Nevermind
<y_> I'm just reading what I want to read now. heh.
<y_> LaserJock, fair enough. If I upgrade the server do I have to upgrade the clients, too?
<LaserJock> well, everything is on the clients
<LaserJock> server rather
<y_> What do you mean?
<LaserJock> so you upgrade the server, then upgrade the client chroot on the server, but that's it
<y_> hmm
<LaserJock> y_: nothing is installed on the thin client to upgrade
<y_> I meant non thin clients
<LaserJock> oh
<LaserJock> well, what are the clients for?
<y_> Can 7.04's talk to 7.10's I guess is what I'm asking
<LaserJock> sure
<y_> Its just a computer lab for elementary school students, teachers need to login too and share files and stuff
<LaserJock> it might depend a tad on what you're trying to "talk"
<y_> (i've got a net loaded /home directory)
<y_> basically I want to have a net installed home directory (or some other mechansm...) and then I want to share users with the clients to the server
<LaserJock> hmm, I can't say with any certainty
<LaserJock> you could sure ask the edubuntu-users mailing list
<y_> hmm
<y_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-network-auth-server
<y_> know anything about that?
<y_> LaserJock ^ maybe you can interpret that
<y_> That seems to imply Feisty is necessary (7.10?)
<LaserJock> I don't believe that's been finished yet
<LaserJock> good LDAP support has been a long-time goal but a tricky bugger to make user friendly
<y_> LaserJock --> http://www.vcsvikings.org/docuwiki/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/CreatingLDAPClients
<y_> Am I naive to believe pure ol' linux works fine for Edubuntu?
<LaserJock> most likely it should
<LaserJock> we'd like to get it so users and groups are easily editable/importable from a GUI
<LaserJock> I've never done LDAP so I'm not a good person to ask
<LaserJock> but several guys on the edubuntu-users lists have been doing it for a long time
<y_> cool
<moquist> LaserJock: hey!
<LaserJock> hi moquist
<moquist> LaserJock: I've had my head buried in a "startup" virtual school, and I'm hoping to emerge now to do something useful for hardy.
<moquist> pm?
<LaserJock> sure
<IsleVegan> why would the dhcp3-server start and restart and other commands always fail on a freshly installed edubuntu 7.10 with all the updates ?
<IsleVegan> it's a server install
<lns> IsleVegan, are you sure your dhcp.conf file is sane?
<IsleVegan> hmm, i'll look, i haven't edited it at all. it's the default file from the install
<IsleVegan> ltsp is new for me
<lns> IsleVegan, if you set it up initially wrong it won't load
<IsleVegan> is that in /etc/samba ?
<lns> look in /var/log for clues
<IsleVegan> i see a dhcp.conf in /etc/samba
<lns> try /etc/ltsp
<IsleVegan> i see it
<IsleVegan> is there a paste bin here?
<lns> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<IsleVegan> thanks
<IsleVegan> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53932/
<IsleVegan> that's the file
<IsleVegan> ltsp.conf
<IsleVegan> this server has 2 ethernet ports
<lns> looks sane
<lns> i know in the past i've had to manually edit /etc/default/dhcp3-server (or something similar) and put in which eth adapter dhcp is listening on
<lns> check that out
<IsleVegan> thanks
<IsleVegan> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/53934/
<IsleVegan> that doesn't look right
<lns> yeah
<lns> put in which eth card is being used for the ltsp network
<lns> then /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<IsleVegan> great, i'll do that now
<IsleVegan> dhcpd self-test failed. Please fix the config file.
<IsleVegan> i put in eth0
<IsleVegan> both with quotes and then without quotes
<IsleVegan> tried both ways
<lns> it needs quotes
<lns> is eth0 up?
<IsleVegan> hmm, looking
<IsleVegan> it has a check mark in network control panel
<lns> does it have an ip?
<lns> if so, what is it?
<lns> (it needs to be the same as the dhcp range)
<IsleVegan> i was trying to follow the edubuntu guides on that
<IsleVegan> 192.168.0.254
<lns> that's eth0 IP address?
<IsleVegan> yes
<lns> is it connected to the network?
<lns> can you ping out?
<IsleVegan> well, i'm using eth1 for that
<lns> but the server can get to the net?
<IsleVegan> yes
<IsleVegan> on eth`1
<lns> k
<IsleVegan> eth1
<lns> right
<lns> you have dns set?
<IsleVegan> yes
<lns> I only ask because i've had issues with dhcp before regarding reaching a dns server
<lns> k
<IsleVegan> and i read that i should add 192.168.0.254 as a dns server as well
<lns> you need to look in /var/log for clues as to why the "self test" fails
<IsleVegan> i put that at the end
<lns> i haven't used edubuntu in a while but yeah i think it acts as a dns cache server
<IsleVegan> i'll look at that log
<IsleVegan> No subnet declaration for eth0 (0.0.0.0).
<IsleVegan> Jan 28 18:02:47 edubuntu dhcpd: ** Ignoring requests on eth0.
<IsleVegan> hmm
<lns> i've had that
<IsleVegan> i'll look at the syntax for dhcp.conf
<IsleVegan> where to add the subnet, but not sure what to put, perhaps the same that is in the subnet for network control panel
<lns> no it's in there
<lns> what is the full path to the dhcpd.conf file you pasted ?
<IsleVegan> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lns> does the log give the full path of the dhcpd.conf file it's crapping out on?
<lns> sounds like it's looking at a different one
<IsleVegan> i'll look
<IsleVegan> i don't see it
<IsleVegan> i looked in syslog and daemon.log
<lns> weird
<lns> i don't have a conf file to compare to but everything looks ok to me (i'm sure i'm missing something)
<IsleVegan> it's new to me :-o
<lns> well if it's saying you don't have a subnet declaration
<IsleVegan> yeah, could it be just that it's wrong?
<lns> i would imagine it would have something specific (line foo: expecting ;) or something
<IsleVegan> hmm, not sure what that means
<lns> it really seems to me that it's not looking at that dhcpd.conf file (i've seen multiple in edubuntu setups before)
<lns> is there a symlink in /etc/dhcpd.conf for /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lns> ?
<IsleVegan> i'll look
<IsleVegan> so, i would look in the /etc folder for dhcpd.conf?
<IsleVegan> i don't see that
<lns> try 'find /etc -name dhcpd.conf'
<IsleVegan> /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<IsleVegan> /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
<lns> ok try renaming /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf to something and symlinking that to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lns> hmm
<lns> i mean
<lns> symlinking /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<lns> wasn't very clear
<IsleVegan> how do i do that?
<lns> you know how to rename a file?
<lns> mv
<IsleVegan> mv is move, i guess, i can look it up online
<lns> ick =p try this
<lns> cd /etc/dhcp3
<lns> mv dhcpd.conf dhcpd.conf.orig
<lns> ln -s /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf dhcpd.conf
<lns> /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<IsleVegan> sorry about my ignorance
<lns> no worries =)
<lns> you're not doing bad
<IsleVegan> thanks for being patient
<IsleVegan> dhcpd self-test failed. Please fix the config file.
<IsleVegan> The error was:
<lns> glad i had some time to kill ;) i love helping people since so many people have helped me
<IsleVegan> there is no error message listed
<lns> that's weird
<lns> try 'ln -s /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf /etc/dhcpd.conf'
<lns> /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<IsleVegan> same thing
<IsleVegan> error
<IsleVegan> no error listed
<IsleVegan> self-test failed
<lns> hmm
<IsleVegan> subnet for eth0 is 255.255.255.0
<IsleVegan> fyi
<IsleVegan> in the network control panel
<IsleVegan> but at this point i have nothing plugged into eth0
<lns> that's fine
<lns> wait
<lns> plugged in?
<lns> you mean a cable to a switch/hub?
<IsleVegan> corrrect
<lns> hmm
<IsleVegan> nothing is plugged into the eth0 port from the motherboard
<IsleVegan> i have a router only
<lns> umm
<IsleVegan> not sure if i can use that between eth0 and client
<IsleVegan> or clients
<lns> arey ou just going to have 1 client?
<IsleVegan> at this point, yes
<IsleVegan> it's a demonstration project
<IsleVegan> for my school
<lns> do you have a crossover cable?
<lns> i really have no clue at this point but dhcpd might look for link status on the adapter it's listening on
<IsleVegan> i don't have, which i'm concerned about, but i understand some ethernet ports can automatically do that...not sure if this can
<IsleVegan> i can plug it into the router, if you think that would be good
<lns> it's your network ;)
<IsleVegan> i have a d-link dgl-4100 router here
<IsleVegan> well, it is all experimental, so things can be changed
<lns> as long as eth0 has link to *something* that would satisfy dhcpd i would think (if it actually looks for link)
<IsleVegan> ok
<IsleVegan> you recommend plugging into wan or one of the lan ports on the router, or the client directly?
<lns> lan
<IsleVegan> ok
<IsleVegan> plugged in
<IsleVegan> to lan port
<lns> try restarting dhcpd
<IsleVegan> i did that restart command
<IsleVegan> same error
<lns> well sorry man i'm out of ideas =)
<IsleVegan> ok, no worries
<IsleVegan> :-)
<lns> try recreating your dhcpd.conf
<IsleVegan> how?
<lns> and scouring /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server script to see where it's looking for it
<lns> by hand
<lns> or reinstall if you don't want to
<IsleVegan> ok, there's not that much right? i pasted it for you to see, right?
<lns> right
<IsleVegan> ok
<lns> you have to know the syntax
<IsleVegan> hmm
<IsleVegan> ok, thanks for your time
<IsleVegan> :)
<lns> np...good luck!
<IsleVegan> i'm gonna take a break and stare at things and think
<IsleVegan> aloha
<sakhi> kbye
<tomatoes> hi, was anyone able to run the "I Have Tomatoes" game without trouble?
<LaserJock> sbalneav!
<LaserJock> ogra1: still up? Did you see my email to -devel?
<musashi> quick question. I'm having problems with cupsys crashing every day. restarting cupsys fixes the problem but I'd like something more permanent. One suggestion i had was to install hplip. The other was to update cups. I'm not sure how to do either. I have a default install of feisty and am leery of running all the updates as it's a high use lab and i don't want to break anything. Suggestions?
<johnny> if cups doesn't show up in the update manager. then there is no upgrade for fesity
<johnny> feisty
<lns> is anyone using Koolu thin clients w/edubuntu (or ubuntu/ltsp) gutsy?
<musashi> johnny: there are over 100 updates. how do i just update cups and nothing else? prefer cli as i remote admin it.
<johnny> uhmm.. you should know about apt-get then :)
<johnny> cups might require newer stuff ..
<johnny> as well
<johnny> did you actually try looking at the cups logs and such?
<johnny> seeing what makes it die?
<musashi> johnny: yeah, i know apt-get but not how to apt-get an update. no didn't check the logs. just heard that there is an update fixing the problem and wanted to try
<musashi> would sudo apt-get --reinstall install cups (or cupsys) do the trick?
<johnny> that would reinstall.. but not update
<musashi> is there an update switch?
<johnny> musashi, read the apt-get man page
<johnny> it's all in there
<musashi> i did. i didn't see an option other than reinstall that would do what i want - upgrade one package and not a full upgrade.
<musashi> just wanting some feedback if that's the right command or option
<musashi> and which package to actually install -- cupsys, cups, cupsys-client, cupsys-common, there are a lot to choose from
<johnny> did you do a web search for apt-get upgrade a package?
<johnny> i don't have my ubuntu box on atm
<musashi> no, i know how to use apt-get. just wasn't sure about the upgrade bit (which is why i asked here).
<lns> musashi, you should be able to just 'apt-get install <package>' to upgrade single packages
<lns> it's still going to pull all deps for that package thou (which is a good thing(tm))
<musashi> well i went ahead and did "sudo apt-get --reinstall install cupsys". I didn't pull anything in but gave me the new version. What i don't know is whether or not cupsys was THE package to install or if i need to so this with other cups packages
<lns> when you install/upgrade a package with apt-get it will pull all necessary dependencies automatically
<lns> it's up to you to decide which package you need to upgrade though depending on your issue
<musashi> thanks for the info. i've upgraded a few things and will see how it goes.
<lns> np musashi good luck
#edubuntu 2008-01-30
<albert> hey everyone
<HedgeMage> Does anybody have a killer app they want to share for middle schoolers?  I know lots of cool stuff for little ones and older ones, but the middle is hard
<johnny> quake3?
<johnny> lol jk
<HedgeMage> :P
<johnny> i never had a computer in middle school
<johnny> or access to one
<johnny> that's including at home
<johnny> didn't get my first computer til i was 17
<johnny> ie: 1998
<HedgeMage> heh
<johnny> and that was a "family computer"
<johnny> didn't get my own til almost 2000
<robzhei> hey
 * robzhei needs help with LTSP problem after clean install of Edubundu!
<robzhei> anyone alive ?
<zoro> Hey - has anyone here had any experience with edubuntu LTSP? I have some questions :)
<robzhei> hehe me 2
<laga> just ask
<laga> if someone knows they'll answer
<zoro> yeah, true enough.
<robzhei> My thin clients hang after trying to boot, they hang after the edubuntu logo  with no error msg
<laga> aren't there debugging hints on the website?
<zoro> I'm looking into setting up a (rather large) network in a school i do tech work for. At the moment, I've got a Win 2K network up and running and the place is getting on grand. I'm getting increasingly worried by the amount of licenses that they have to pay for whenever a new shipment of machines arrive or is donated, so I'm looking into the possibility of an LTSP project.
<zoro> My biggest issue at the moment is calculating the hardware requirements. I've managed to source a dual xeon (800mhz if i remember correctly) and that's been chugging along happily as the PDC for the windows domain
<zoro> there's a possibilty of me getting a second server of similar specs, but i want to be sure that i'm not getting in over my head here
<zoro> so that's why i'm here to ask questions about edubuntu, ltsp, and anyones experiences
<zoro> :)
 * zoro stops typing
<johnny> the ram is what you need more of
<johnny> it's in the edubuntu handbook
<johnny> recommendations that is
<johnny> and depending on the thin clients, some apps can run locally.. which could change the balance of power
<johnny> so think about your setup first
<zoro> yeah i've read the handbook, but i find it lacking in a couple of areas. also, i dont fully understand how the locally-running apps system actually works - do i install edubuntu on those boxes as well as on the server?
<zoro> at the moment there are 70-80 client machines, all of which would be able to run apps locally
<zoro> i'm looking to make this as centrally controlled as possible so that the computers teacher can do basic admin things when i'm not there
<johnny> no
<johnny> you install the apps in the chroot
<johnny> altho that's still in development to do it easier
<robzhei> problem seems to be getting the friggin clients to work at all
<robzhei> ;)
<zoro> :)
<johnny> just mentioning it, depends on your client specs
<johnny> well look at the ram requirements
<zoro> johnny: yeah, well ideally i'd like to push some of the load out to the clients, considering they're more than capable of it
<johnny> the handbook does mention those
 * zoro nods
<zoro> yeah, but only briefly and it doesn't really go into much detail
<zoro> anyway, thanks for your help - i'll idle in here incase anyone else has any input
<johnny> it goes into enough detials imo
<johnny> it even has an equation :)
<johnny> use that as the very base line
<zoro> yeah
<zoro> is it possible to spread server load across more than 1 server?
<zoro> ugh. i should really read before i jump in
<johnny> join #ltsp if you want more info on that
<johnny> yeah.. read some
<johnny> and ask the folks in there
<zoro> thanks for your help
<johnny> you'll get more general ltsp folks in there
<johnny> who manage large installs
<johnny> and such
<laga> ogra: aufs is now in git thanks to juliank and it's working great with mythbuntu-diskless. (just need to wait for another patch to be applied and the next kernel upload)
<ogra> nice
<johnny> wtf is aufs ?
<ogra> mdz was pretty pleased to hear about it btw, we talked a bit at the sprint last week
<laga> takes 27s from power-on to X in my VM. :)
<ogra> johnny, another unionfs
<johnny> aha
<johnny> will it appear in the krnele?
<laga> yes
<johnny> don't ask me how the e got transposed to the end :)
<laga> well, l-u-m
<johnny> l-u-m ?
<laga> linux-ubuntu-modules package
<johnny> aha
<ogra> ah, nice
<johnny> thanks guys
<johnny> you rock
<johnny> you make me very happy this lovely morning
<laga> ogra: you'll finally get my initramfs patch by the weekend. if you don't mind i'll add aufs support for tmpfs, too
<ogra> as long as it stays optional i'm open for everything :)
<laga> sure.
 * laga is really happy about aufs
<RichEd> hey ogra ...
<RichEd> edubuntu meeting in 15 ?
<ogra> RichEd, hey
<ogra> sigh, yes :)
 * ogra is testing isos aside ... dont expect to much from me
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting == in 10 mins ===
 * ogra goes to prepare fresh coffee ....
<juliux> RichEd, thanks for the reminder
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting == now ===
<ogra> johnny, no interest in the meeting ?
<johnny> sorry.. i was playing guitar hero
<johnny> wakeup music
<stgraber> ogra: I'm generating -i386 + -amd64 debs for iTalc so you can give it a try and see the bug by your own eyes. The debian/ dir is maintained in bzr
<robzhei> euhm... edubuntu server install hangs when installing  britty-x11  anyone know why? :P
<johnny> robzhei, try installing without, and then installing it later
<johnny> as a quick fix
<ogra> robzhei, which release/iso ?
<robzhei> 7.10
 * ogra hasnt seen anything like that
<ogra> sounds like a borked iso
<ogra> did you check the md5 sum after download ?
<ogra> and also try the CD selfcheck from the CD menu
<robzhei> mm the imgage is fine, installed from it 5 times be4..  this is second cd burned from it...
<ogra> at what speed ?
<ogra> note the data is highly compressed ...
<ogra> you shouldnt burn faster than 8x
<robzhei> first cd 52x hehe,  second 16x
<ogra> that can generate read errors
<ogra> they would expose win the sleftest though, try that out first and see if it gets through
<robzhei> wellwell.. tryin again then ;)
<nixternal> hrmm, I just noticed I wasn't even in here
<stgraber> ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<ogra> stgraber, hey thanks
<ogra> i'll test it tonight .. (got to prepare for platform meeting now) ....
<nixternal> ogra: OK, what is up with the desktop files now
<ogra> nixternal, well, on the classmatePc it takes very long to start apps ...
<ogra> usually the timeout of the startup notification plus some seconds
<ogra> the kdeedu apps all dont use startup notification
<ogra> which is shown for about 15-20 secs
<ogra> if it takes an app 25 secs users think te click didnt get through and click multiple times
<ogra> which is really bad for a classmate with reduced ressources
<nixternal> gotcha
<ogra> well, and generally i'd consider it a bug anyway ... :)
<nixternal> do some of the apps use the notification?
<ogra> none of kdeedu
<ogra> which is no prob in KDE i think
<ogra> as it uses a different mechanism
<nixternal> hrmm, any suggestions on an easy fix at all?
<ogra> adding StartupNiotify=True to all .desktop files
<ogra> i was planning to look into that anyway ... but indeed appreciate if someone else takes the task :)
<ogra> i need it fixed for the classmate image in any case
<nixternal> X-KDE-StartupNotify=true
<nixternal> actually I see those in quite a bit of the kde apps .desktop files
<nixternal> I will look into it
<ogra> probably its enough to drop X-KDE- from taht ?
<nixternal> I will ask Riddell and see what he says
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> thanks :)
<highvoltage> ouch, missed the meeting and forgot to join this channel
<highvoltage> my bad
<nixternal> ogra: riddell wants to know by adding that, what exactly does it change and is this only for the classmate?
<johnny> hmm.. there is a bug filed to sabayon
<nixternal> also is this recent or has it been ongoing?
<johnny> with startup notify not working well with gksu
<johnny> the busy icon sticks around for too long
<johnny> but it happens on my other things in the admin menu too
<johnny> and on my gentoo install as well
<ogra> nixternal, it makes the gnome desktop startup notification work (turning the cursor into a clock/rotating circle until the app is up)
<ogra> very much like the bouncing cursor in KDe
<johnny> how come that still requires a flag?
<nixternal> does the app start up though?
<nixternal> it is just that the busy cursor sticks around until timeout is reached?
<johnny> you're asking me?
<nixternal> ogra ^^ :)
<johnny> ogra, would you know what to do about my bug tho:)
<ogra> nixternal, if the app is faster than the timeout the notification lib gives feedback and switches the cursor ... else it stays until timeout
<ogra> on classmate thats critical because apps definately exhaust the timeout
<johnny> except when run via gksu..
<nixternal> roger that
<nixternal> ogra: Riddell said that if effects all apps it sounds like they (you) should adjust their timeout rather than edit all apps...I hope I am not skewing this at all...maybe you should talk to him and make it clearer than I could possibly do :)
<ogra> nixternal, what do i gain by adjusting the timeout to something thats never fired up ?
<ogra> the missing var keeps startup niotification from firing at all
<ogra> which means no feedback at all for a click
<johnny> ogra, how come the files needed edited?
<johnny> seems kinda backwards
<johnny> shouldn't the default be for startupnotify
<johnny> and then disabled in the .desktop files?
<ogra> johnny, KDE vs GNOME ...
<johnny> bastads
<ogra> they have different notification implementaions it seems
<johnny> hmm.. that's fine.. but they do they need seperate switches? :)
<ogra> usually the X-DESKTOPNAME says to switch off a feature on the other desktop
<ogra> and omitting that prefix makes it a global setting
<LaserJock> RichEd: you really here?
<RichEd> LaserJock: not all here ... but some of me :)
<LaserJock> good enough
<LaserJock> just read through the meeting logs
<LaserJock> the question with the menus is whether to make alacarte handle the dynamic menu editing from within itself or to write a wrapper that calls alacarte and "fixes" stuff after its done
<LaserJock> ogra, I think, (and me too really) prefers to have alacarte handle the whole thing
<LaserJock> but that's a lot more hacking than doing a wrapper and it needs to be done upstream, which I'm not sure they'd take
<LaserJock> so I guess perhaps what needs to be done is to ask upstream if they'd even consider patches for such a thing
<LaserJock> ogra: is ^^ about right?
<chucky> i need help i just installed ubuntu but i get a black screen i think it because i installed my pci card
<RichEd> chucky: did the install complete ?
<chucky> yeah
<RichEd> so do you see all the booting, but then black screen follows ?
<chucky> yeah
<RichEd> and did it work before you installed the pci card
<chucky> this is after i installed my pci softwear
<RichEd> give me a minute
<chucky> it told me to reboot then just got a black screen
<chucky> and i cant even boot from cd
<RichEd> woops ... if you insert the CD:
<RichEd> #1  can you see options
<RichEd> #2  and select run as live CD
<chucky> just black screen man
<RichEd> do you at least get the bios info before it starts the os
<chucky> ok when i restart i get the bios then the loading ubuntu sereen the black
<chucky> then* black
<RichEd> sounds like the text mode is okay with the display card/'adaptor ... but not the graphics mode
<chucky> yeah is there a way to bypass that
<chucky> or something
<RichEd> you may be able to boot to the terminal prompt, staying in text mode, and then run a command line display setup
<chucky> i don't know how to
<chucky> lol sorry im new at this
 * RichEd is looking for some help for you
<RichEd> no problem :)
<RichEd> okay ... try this: boot the machine and wait until the hard drive activity stops
<RichEd> then: "ctrl+alt+f#" for a command prompt
<RichEd> then: log in with your username and password at the prompt
<RichEd> then: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<RichEd> that will allow you to reconfigure the graphics card setting
<RichEd> If you don't have the right video driver installed, try a basic VESA configuration to at least get the desktop going.
<chucky> lol how do you i make the F#?
<stgraber> ctrl+alt+ any of your F keys (from 1 to 6)
<chucky> ok i tryed it but i got lots of letters going down the screen but that it went black screen again
<chucky> i can hit Esc and the first and brings up this recovery mode
<chucky> thats all i can do
<chucky> is there anything i can do from the recovery mode?
<RichEd> chucky: can you log in ?
<chucky> no man
<RichEd> give me a minute
<chucky> ok
<RichEd> chucky: so what do you have in front of you now ... a login prompt ?
<chucky> black sereen
<RichEd> so recovery mode takes you to a black screen ?
<RichEd> it sounds to me like a hardware issue now ...
<chucky> no hold on
<chucky> ok i got 3 choices 1 kernal 2.6.22-14-generic "2"kernal 2.6.22-14-generic revoverymode and 3 memtest86
<chucky> i jumped in recovery and its says  Root@chuck-desktop:~#
<chucky> Root@chuck-desktop:~#  and i think i sopose to put something here
<chucky> lol
<RichEd> progress :)
<RichEd> now try this:
<RichEd> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
<chucky> ok it took me somewhere
<RichEd> it should give you a display set up ]
<RichEd> try that ...
<RichEd> this is the last bit of info from the forum post I have been using to help you:
<RichEd> "If you don't have the right video driver installed, try a basic VESA configuration to at least get the desktop going.
<RichEd> If it doesn't work, just repeat the process until you get somewhere (or give up....)"
<chucky> lol it says Attempt to autodetect video hardware
<chucky> ?
<RichEd> try it
<chucky> holy F%%#&$ it worked
<chucky> man thanks alot
 * RichEd cheers
<RichEd> what did it find ? the correct name of the card ?
<RichEd> next time, do the hardware changes *before* the install ;)
<chucky> no i know wnat kind of kind of card i have i remembered it took some thinking
<chucky> lol
<chucky> but i just installed any kind i think
<chucky> but really RichEd thanks alot man
<RichEd> cool ... as a note: if yuou
<RichEd> bah
<RichEd> as a note: if yuou
<RichEd> ahem ... let me try that again
<RichEd> as a note:
<RichEd> if you now go into [System] [[Preferences]] [[[Screen Resolution]]
<RichEd> you should be able to select the best resolution for your screen/card combo
<RichEd> if you *cannot* get to a decent setting, you may have a funky display card that does not have a default driver
<RichEd> in which case, you may need to get the correct driver
<chucky> ok
<RichEd> let me know if this applies to you ... i.e. if you are not happy with the screen resolutions available
<chucky> everything is good
<chucky> 1280X1024
<chucky> man im vary happy
<chucky> thanks again
 * RichEd takes a bow for ubuntu
<Amaranth> LaserJock: I'm upstream for alacarte :)
<LaserJock> I'm aware of that
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> I also know that you've said before you were more interested in other things and so I wasn't sure if you'd be interested in hacking on this
<LaserJock> but I suppose a ping wouldn't hurt
<LaserJock> Amaranth: ping ;-)
<Amaranth> heh
<ogra> lol
<Amaranth> I'm not interested in doing the work but I might be willing to take a patch
<LaserJock> Amaranth: I'm not even sure how to go about it directly in alacarte
<LaserJock> one of the problems I have with directly editing the menus from alacarte
<LaserJock> is that the menus are dynamic and composed of different groups
<LaserJock> so if I say "Edit this menu" what menu am I editing?
<LaserJock> and then I'd also have to deal with creation of new menus/groups
<LaserJock> I gotta run to a meeting, bbiab
<Amaranth> Right, this would be an extension of root menu editing (which alacarte doesn't support yet)
<Amaranth> A Novell guy got permission from me to work on this feature in a branch but the first thing he did was hack it up to add SuSEisms and then he added the feature in a horrible way and never came back to me for review
<Amaranth> So someone still has to do that work
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> (no boss, short meeting) ;-)
<LaserJock> well I can edit the menus sort of OK but giving XDG_CONFIG_HOME to alacarte
<LaserJock> but that's sort of a round-about hack
<Amaranth> hehe, yeah
<Amaranth> that kinda works
<Amaranth> Not sure if I'd trust pressing the Revert button
<LaserJock> hmm, haven't tried that
<LaserJock> my initial thought was to do a GUI that basically wrapped around that concept
<LaserJock> so it gave you a list of menus you could edit, when you clicked on "edit" it'd fire up alacarte via XDG_CONFIG_HOME, and then after alacarte was done it'd "clean up"
<Amaranth> yeah, i think we discussed this before
<Amaranth> that was the easiest route
<LaserJock> basically I'd love to see more dynamic menuing done upstream, like fd.o or gnome
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure people see the need yet
<Amaranth> Well, right now alacarte is basically unmaintained so... :P
<Amaranth> I have a local version that's a rewrite using vala that's almost done, I'm not too interested in the current code
<LaserJock> ogra: can you talk for a sec about squeak? I'm at a bit of a block
<LaserJock> Amaranth: that's what I figured.
<ogra> LaserJock, no way to handle it through transitional packages ?
<ogra> you say the names are totally different anyway
<ogra> so even conflicts/replaces should work
<LaserJock> ogra: right, the names are different, different source packages build the same binaries
<LaserJock> good stuff like that
<LaserJock> so my idea was to completely remove squeak from the archives
<LaserJock> and then upload the new ones with conflicts/replaces
<LaserJock> *but* my problem is that the new packages use different start scripts, and different locations for storing stuff in ~/
<LaserJock> I don't see any easy way of making sure people who ran squeak in Gutsy can just dist-upgrade and run the same in Hardy
<LaserJock> so I guess my question is if that is OK?
<ogra> as much as i hate to say that ... debconf note
<ogra> is the stuff binary compatible ?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> it's still squeak
<ogra> i.e. can we move the content of eth user dirs over ?
<LaserJock> it's just that squeak is such and aweful mess
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> that each time you package it you implement a new way of starting/storing
<ogra> well, add a script to do the copying a user can execute
<ogra> and add a debconf note if you detect an upgrage from an old squeak version
<ogra> similar to the one alsa uses currently
<LaserJock> ogra: hmm
<LaserJock> ok, maybe I should get the old ones removed and new packages uploaded ASAP so I don't hit FeatureFreeze
<LaserJock> then do the debconf thing as a bug fix
<LaserJock> cause I dont' think I can get that all done before FF
<ogra> dont forget FF is also UVF ...
<LaserJock> well, that's what I'm saying
<ogra> the valentine freeze :)
<LaserJock> I can basically upload the new packages as-is
<LaserJock> and then work the debconf/upgrade handling after
<laga> ogra: is this already implemented in ltsp-manager? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ltsp-manager_building_client.png
<LaserJock> basically assuming I can break Hardy a little bit before fixing it
<ogra> laga, ltsp manager is only a gui ... no backend yet ... but that part i got separately ....
<ogra> LaserJock, indeed ;)
<laga> ogra: i'd love to have that progress bar. :)
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/gtk-build-client/
<ogra> https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ltsp-build-client-gtk <-- code branch
<laga> thanks
<ogra> there is also that ... https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ltsp-image-shell ... shots: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-image-shell/
<laga> ogra: thanks. is https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/hardy-trunk the right branch to generate patches against?
<ogra> thats the package branch ... its a snapshot of the ltsp-upstream branch ... i plan to do one last upstrem pull before feature freeze (feb 14th)
<ogra> until then making patches against the upstream branch is better
<ogra> after FF thats the right one :) as i wont pull new upstream stuff
<ogra> LaserJock, are you happy so far ? i tend to call it a day
<laga> ogra: hum. the upstream branch does not have a debian/ directory, right?
<laga> eg for packaging
<ogra> right
<ogra> for the debian stuff just take the package itself for now
<laga> k
<ogra> i'll push a branch with its content this week ...
<LaserJock> ogra: for now yes :-) I wanted to get an idea from you about squeak before I started doing all the removal requests, NEWing, etc.
<ogra> but since usualyl i'm the only uploader dont worry :)
<ogra> good :)
<stgraber> ogra: something is definitely wrong with the network part of italc
<stgraber> ogra: I'm doing local testing with the packages I uploaded earlier, when starting the standard way (ica -role teacher and italc -role teacher), both ports are opened on my laptop 5800 + 5900
<stgraber> then once the italc UI is opened, I see some "unable to connect" errors and the 5900 port is now closed
<stgraber> a part from that italc seems to try connecting on the right ports, everything is fine from that side so my ltsp scripts will work correctly if the current bug is fixed
<stgraber> (but that's the VNC part of italc and it's scary :))
<mcfloppy_> hello
<mcfloppy_> how can i find the problem with my sound?  ive installed with this manual: http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Edgy/HOWTO:_PulseAudio
<mcfloppy_> i use a ltsp5 on the current stable debian
<mcfloppy_> when i log in local to the client and start: alsaconf, i can play wav with aplayer.... but i cannot start pulsesound on the client... it exit with this message "startup failed"
<RichEd> mcfloppy_: you running debian or edubuntu ?
<RichEd> mcfloppy: you running debian or edubuntu ?
#edubuntu 2008-01-31
<PcPixel> Does anyone know of a good algebra tutoring program?
<calimer> I think there is something called mathasurus
<calimer> letme check if I have it in my links
<PcPixel> thanks :) i have ubuntu installed on a friends son's pc & he needs help in algebra
<calimer> hmm did a search and it wasn't the one I was thinking of
<calimer> I remember seeing something though, hmm
<calimer> oh this is what I was talking about
<calimer> http://www.asymptopia.org/
<calimer> but I don't htink it has algerbra
<calimer> I'll do a search
<PcPixel> thanks. id appreciate any help you can give.
<lns> Has anyone gotten sound to work on a thin client regarding a tsclient session to a Windows server (using PulseAudio)? Is it pretty straight-forward?
<PcPixel> ive been doing searches myself, but havent found anything
<calimer> yeah a lot of this stuff is really complicated
<calimer> have you tried here?
<calimer> http://happypenguin.org/
<calimer> boo nothing for algebra
<PcPixel> never heard of happy penguin :)
<PcPixel> i tried getdeb.net
<PcPixel> but nothing there either
<calimer> they do have a kids category
<calimer> and that is a great resource in general
<calimer> I found some windows ones
<calimer> you  might be able to use wine to runt hem
<calimer> http://www.filesland.com/software/free-educational-software-algebra.html
<PcPixel> mmmm dunno if i wanna get that complicated
<calimer> http://www.educational-software-directory.net/math/algebra.html
<johnny> it'd be nice to get some funding to develop such things :(
<calimer> http://www.linux.com/feature/119896
<lns> johnny, i don't see why it would be so hard, as long as you're in the right industry
<lns> and I'd definitely call the linux/education sector viable for programmers to make money writing open source software
<calimer> http://www.nscf.org/
<lns> wow..geogebra looks pretty cool =)
<PcPixel> ooooh
<PcPixel> yeah geo might work
<calimer> it does indeed
<PcPixel> cause he actually needs help w geometry as well
<calimer> you can send the check in the mail
<lns> calimer, do you work for these companies?
<calimer> no
<calimer> it was a joke, for a finders fee :D
<lns> ooooh you were being sarcastic =p
<lns> ah
<calimer> I work for my own company :D
<lns> it's crazy what's hiding in the corners of the internet...i never heard of these aps
<calimer> and I work for several other companies too
<lns> apps*
<calimer> yeah no kidding
<lns> i work for my own company as well
<calimer> I'm going to take this opportunity to market my corner
<lns> what's your corner?
<calimer> http://kids.platinumarts.net game design software for kids :D
<lns> wow
<lns> how does it run via ltsp?
<calimer> huh
<lns> s/how/how well/
<calimer> you download it and run the binaries :D
<lns> with graphics and all i'd assume it would have to be optimized at some level for ltsp networks
<calimer> not sure what those are
<lns> ahh...i guess you don't deal with edubuntu much then ;)
<calimer> unfortunately not
<calimer> my linux HD has mandrake on it :D
<calimer> until I finish this stinkin doom 3 mod I'm stuck on windows D:
<lns> so do you not work at platinum arts?
<calimer> I do it is my company :D
<kgoetz> doom 3 runs on linux
<calimer> yeah but the tools don't :(
<kgoetz> :(
<lns> doom 1 runs on my mp3 player
<calimer> my linux HD needs so much cleaning too, haha
<calimer> there are like 60 mb free
<calimer> and it is a 180 gig HD
<calimer> er 160
<lns> so calimer, you programmed this game design app?
<calimer> no it is based on another engine
<calimer> I actually try to stay out of the programming when I can :D
<calimer> though now I do have a coder, woo hooo!!
<lns> it looks nice
<lns> you should see how well it runs on edubuntu thin client networks
<calimer> the SVN is already much improved now too
<calimer> I think my coder is actually using ubuntu
<calimer> hopefully he knows what a think client network is
<calimer> I get to use it to teach game design for an after school club soon, woo!
<lns> thin client network ;)
<lns> calimer, what after school club?
<calimer> at a HS
<PcPixel> just checked out geogebra
<PcPixel> its very nice and very powerful
<PcPixel> but a little too "over the head" of the person i need it for
<PcPixel> does anyone know of a simple math tutoring program (does algebra and geomerty)?
<lns> PcPixel, from my perspective, algebra and geometry aren't simple so it would be impossible to have a 'simple geometry' program.
<PcPixel> somethin that acts as a tutor
<PcPixel> like "whats the area of teh square"
<PcPixel> "complete this equation"
<PcPixel> i dont need something like MathLab :)
<PcPixel> this kid is in jr high & is having trouble in those subjects
<PcPixel> something like kpercentage
<PcPixel> or kbruch
<y> I'm looking for a theory... I've got LDAP working on a server and I can connect to it on client, but I'm not getting consistent ldapsearch results from client/server
<sakhi> RichEd: Hi there.
<RichEd> hi
 * johnny watches revdep-rebuild run
<sakhi> edubuntu does not use nfs right?
<johnny> ltsp5 distributed with edubuntu does not use nfs
<johnny> by default that is
<johnny> for gutsy and onwards
<johnny> feisty still uses nfs
<sakhi> ok
<sakhi> johnny: Have you ever created an add on CD?, i.e. Customising edubuntu then put all the packages added on a CD so that you can install it on different PC's running Edubuntu 7.10
<johnny> no, i haven't done that as of yet
<johnny> in fact.. i've never installed edubuntu
<johnny> only regular ubuntu
<johnny> but i use ltsp with it
<johnny> which is why i'm here
<johnny> altho i'm sure it is the same as regular ubunt
<johnny> sakhi, there are probably plenty of docs
<johnny> if you search for "create ubuntu package cd
<johnny> "
<johnny> or "create debian package cd"
<johnny> hmm.. if i was going to this kinda install tho.. i'd do it all over the network
<johnny> instead of using cds
<johnny> and just point the machines at that repository
<johnny> with that machine running locally
<sakhi> johnny: It would work on a local network
<sakhi> but work differently on machines located in different areas.
<daya> where can I found LTSP source code that is used by edubuntu 7.10
<ogra> daya, apt-get source ltsp :)
<Nubae> hi ogra... quick question, I'm trying to get all of edubuntu-desktop into the fat chroot, and get this:
<Nubae> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:252: process_queue: Assertion `!queuelen' failed.
<Nubae> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg exited unexpectedly
<ogra> hum
<ogra> no idea
<Nubae> i cant do dpkg --configure -a anymore, so I'm sorta stuck...
<ogra> looks like a broken dpkg
<Nubae> how could I check to see which one?
<ogra> i mean the program dpkg
<Nubae> dpkg: error processing libgdl-1-0 (--configure):
<Nubae>  thats the last one before the error
<Nubae> ah... oh
<ogra> dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:252: process_queue: Assertion `!queuelen' failed.
<ogra> looks serious
<Nubae> dpkg: too many errors, stopping
<Nubae>  I get that just before
<ogra> can you check the scrollback for the very first error ?
<ogra> i suspect thats not the first
<daya> ogra, which list in repo
<daya> ogra, its from ubuntu
<ogra> its identical
<Nubae> GC Warning: Couldn't read /proc/stat
<Nubae> Couldn't read /proc/self/stat
<Nubae> Aborted (core dumped)
<ogra> Nubae, heh
<ogra> mount proc in the chroot
<ogra> some packages require it
<Nubae> doh, makes sense
<ogra> i think one package couldnt fifnish because of missing proc and pulled the others over the edge
<Nubae> anyway, I'm close now... gdm went through, authentication worked, but went to a terminal after gdm cause edubuntu-desktop wasnt entireley installed
<ogra> !!! dont forget to unmount proc before leaving the chroot !!!
<Nubae> yeah cool, that did it...
<Nubae> how about /sys... mount that?
<ogra> should work without
<ogra> only if you start to see intresting errors again :)
<Nubae> so I'll put the wiki here: wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPFatClientHowto
<Nubae> that ok?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> i wonder if it shouldnt rather be on help.u.c
<ogra> below the UbuntuLTSP category
<Nubae> also... the instruction to mount proc... should I put that before apt-get install edubuntu-desktop?
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<ogra> yep
<ogra> directly after entering the chroot is best
<Nubae> ok, maybe I can link from the community help to the ubuntu wiki
<Nubae> I mean write in community, link from ubuntu wiki
<ogra> no, keep it in one place
<Nubae> ok
<ogra> (community help is actually a wiki ... you can use it with your normal wiki credentials)
<ogra> it has just a sligh mor official touch
<ogra> *slightly more
<Nubae> k
<Nubae> still cant set the root passwd though
<ogra> weird
<ogra> you dont use sudo *inside* the chroot for that, right ?
<Nubae> NOW it takes for ever to build the image :-)
<Nubae> heh, no
<Nubae> hmm cant unmount proc
<ogra> check with mount
<ogra> and repeat the unmounting
<Nubae> what do you mean?
<ogra> repeat the umount command
 * ogra needs to reboot ... brb
<Nubae> lol... ok so shutdown doesnt work from within the chroot
<Nubae> but at least that unmount proc from within the chroot 8)
<Nubae> hmmm startup hangs at * Starting LTSP thin client
<Nubae> and can't login from terminal either
<Nubae> ogra, could something in the LTSP init scripts be stopping it?
<ogra> try moving the gdm startup before the ltsp-client one
<Nubae> which file is that in?
<Nubae> ogra, u mean move S30gdm to runlevel 0?
<ogra> no to S20 ... anything smaller than ltsp-client-core
<Nubae> hmm, gets stuck on Starting Gnome Display Manager now
<Nubae> so that wasnt it...
<highvoltage> ogra: ping
<Nubae> ogra, any ideas?
<ogra> Nubae, actually not, no
<ogra> drop splash and quiet from the botooptions, that should give more info
<ogra> highvoltage, pong
<highvoltage> ogra: there's a long list of people who applied to join the edubuntu-members team, but never sent a mail to us, or showed any kind of real-life interest. can I decline them on LP and include text on the membership process?
<ogra> sure
<highvoltage> ogra: a bunch of the requests as old as 2006 even: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members
<ogra> go ahead
<highvoltage> ok, cool
<ogra> i know rich meant to do that long ago, but we're both way to busy
<highvoltage> me too, also been busy :)
<Nubae> ogra, did that already, nothing shows
<ogra> well, after all the changes in edubuntu land it should be a lot better for me in hardy+1 :)
<ogra> no more CD to care for takes a ton of my sholders
<Nubae> weird thing is before doing a complete apt-get install edubuntu-desktop, it was going through to gdm without problems
<Nubae> so some new init script must be stopping the process now, no?
<highvoltage> ogra: the company I work for is being swallowed by a much bigger company, and a lot of my work will now be delegated, so things should go smoother for me too
<ogra> ah, nice
<sakhi> highvoltage: that's sounds good.
<highvoltage> hey sakhi, haven't seen you in this channel before.
<highvoltage> sakhi: you should get jeremy to be here too :)
<Nubae> darn, I can't login to the terminal so can't see the logs... dead end
<sakhi> ummm where again? new company?
<highvoltage> sakhi: Business Connexion
<sakhi> don't worry.
<sakhi> it will be done !-)
<Nubae> ogra, could this have to do with requiring the netgroups part of ldap, registering the host as well as the users?
<ogra> Nubae, might be
<highvoltage> ogra: do existing Ubuntu members get to join Edubuntu Members for free? I see nixternal also applied at one stage
<ogra> they should get it for free imho, yes
 * ogra thought nixternal is member since ages
<laga> do other people have to pay?
<highvoltage> ogra: I thought so too
<highvoltage> laga: no, it's just an expression we use
<ogra> laga, only the ones with green nicknames in xchats default coloring :P
<highvoltage> laga: when you are an Edubuntu Member, you are also an Ubuntu Member, so we say that the person gets Ubuntu membership "for free"
<stgraber> I became an edubuntu member without having to go through the whole process as I was an Ubuntu member
<ogra> right
<highvoltage> ok, can I approve nixternal then?
<ogra> i dont object
<laga> ogra: :P
<Nubae> hmmm, should I delete all system groups from ldap too?
<ogra> Nubae, switch off ldap completely in the chroot and check if it boots then
<ogra> just backup and edit the pam config files
 * juliux is a edubuntu member but no ubuntu member;)
<ogra> if it still doesnt boot its not ldap related
<Nubae> right, ok, good point
<ogra> juliux, you are spethial anyway :)
<juliux> ogra, spethial?
<Nubae> but in any case, should I delete all system groups from ldap, or just system users?
<ogra> juliux, pronounce it :) (in english ... good training against german accent :P )
<juliux> ogra, ohhhh
<jvanrooyen> highvoltage: Hi there
<ogra> *g*
<jvanrooyen> highvoltage: Ek is hier al die tyd
<ogra> juliux, btw, you wanted to send me a form
<sakhi> jvanrooyen: hi
<juliux> ogra, oh shit, i will send you that mail now;)
<ogra> :)
<jvanrooyen> sakhi: Hi
<ogra> i got the payment reminder though *g*
<highvoltage> oh, hi jvanrooyen, didn't notice that nick :)
<jvanrooyen> highvoltage: lol
<jvanrooyen> highvoltage: how are you mnr?
<highvoltage> ogra: cliebow also applied for membership. he's an LTSP guy, right? should I ping him first and find out if he's still interested?
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> mail flood
<juliux> ogra, send out
<ogra> highvoltage, he likely is
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, I'm not going to decline him
<juliux> ogra, i am working on a script that send the reminders automaticly out;)
 * ogra wonders where to sort these tons of LP mails now
<highvoltage> ogra: *delete*!
<juliux> ogra, mv *launchpad* /dev/null
 * ogra follows sheepish
<ogra> ah, thats better :)
<highvoltage> ogra: should we make the next edubuntu meeting a council meeting? or would that be too short notice?
<ogra> its the late one, right
<ogra> well
<ogra> and its the first meeting of the month
<highvoltage> then we could give the last 3 members who are left on the list a chance to get through, if they still want to
<ogra> we once said each first one is EC
<sakhi> was soooo confused...
<highvoltage> ogra: ok
<ogra> we should probably return to that
<juliux> there will happen something historic, a edubuntu council meeting
<ogra> lol
 * juliux will mark that day red in his calendar
<highvoltage> good idea!
 * highvoltage marks it in calender too (has really short memory)
<juliux> ogra, btw i am back for testing edubuntu
<ogra> we should ask LaserJock to mark it on the fridge
<highvoltage> yay, it's just 2 days before my birthday
<ogra> juliux, there is not much to test :)
<juliux> ogra, my girl friend donate me a third tft;)
<juliux> ogra, for me there is my last edubuntu installation is 1,5 years old
 * highvoltage nearly read that very wrongly
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-January/003218.html <-- juliux
<juliux> ogra, i allready see the installtion point build ltsp on the alternate cd;9
<ogra> right
<ogra> if you want to test ltsp, use the alternate cd
<juliux> that is what i have done yesterday but the -desktop packages are broken
<ogra> i usually test daily running a virtualbox install, alpha4 will be good to go
<ogra> hmm, the 20080130 build worked for me
<juliux> it was 20080129
<ogra> ah
<juliux> jigo sricpt started for 20080130
<juliux> jigdo
<ogra> i couldnt test 31 yet ... my vbox drivers are broken
<juliux> at home i use the small transtec pc for testing
<ogra> i built a pretty fat machine over christmas ... i'm doing everything on it via ltsp now ...
<juliux> cool
<juliux> do you know a thinclient with two vga out?
<ogra> sadly no
<juliux> i still love it to work with two 17" tfts
<ogra> but there are SBC boards with two VGA out's
<ogra> you could assemble something yourself
<laga> i was secretly contemplating turning my workstation into a fat client because the hard drive is bothering me. not sure if that's a good idea over fast ethernet
<juliux> laga, i  have allready everything on my file server
<laga> my "file server" only holds my multimedia files. hum
<juliux> my fileserver has a raid5 my client a very old notebook harddisk so all important files are on my fileserver
 * laga suppresses the urge to buy a thin client and retire his workstation to a closet
<laga> great. now i searched ebay for "thin client" and found some cheap hardware. now i want to build both a thin client and a new mythtv frontend. gee.
 * laga closes laptop and goes back to homework
<ogra> http://www.abeco.de/sess/utn;jsessionid=1547a1cf4286c50/shopdata/0160_Nano+=26amp=3Bslash=3B+IEM+Embedded+Boards+=26amp=3Bslash=3B+KAMIO=28RISC=29/product_details.shopscript?article=0010_NANO-9453%2B-%2BRoHS%2B%3D28X00454%3D29
<ogra> thats pretty fat
<juliux> nice board;)
<ogra> mount that to the back of a TFT and put one in every room of your house ;)
<ogra> (touchscreen TFT indeed :) )
<juliux> i have only one room so no problem;)
<ogra> heh
<juliux> i have 36qm and 5 computers;)
 * ogra is playing with the thought of using ltsp for home automation at some point :)
<Nubae> oh man... I give up, gonna start from a new chroot
<Nubae> hmmm, ogra should I be doing ltsp-update-kernels?
<stgraber> ogra: good news for you, first we have a 1.0.5 iTalc out including one of my patches (localization thing), second is that I and Tobias Doerffel (iTalc's upstream) isolated the bug
<stgraber> it's a problem with the integrated x11vnc like which is crashing as soon as italc connects
<ogra> yippie !"!!!
 * ogra dances
<stgraber> now, I just need to regenerates the packages + dbgsym packages so I can debug it
<stgraber> (well, rather run gdb and send the backtrace right to Tobias :))
<Nubae> cool, so hardy will have a working thin client manager ;-)
<stgraber> ogra: do you happen to know how to make pbuilder to produce -dbgsym packages ? I installed pkg-create-dbgsym but it doesn't seem to help
<stgraber> ogra: oh, maybe I need to install it in the chroot instead of the server itself :)
 * stgraber will have to update his chroot builder scripts ...
<pygi> Nubae, but it'll be uuugly :)
<nixternal> oh no, it is that pygi guy :p
<Nubae> ogra if I do  apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light will that pull enough through to get a working fat environment?
<stgraber> ogra: ouch, took me some time to get a proper backtrace from the vnc part of italc but I finally have it :)
<stgraber> ogra: let's hope Tobias will quickly find the problem
<LaserJock> ogra, RichEd: regarding gcompris translations, for gutsy the fixed translations where supposed to go out in December but LP isn't behaving
 * RichEd sorts out the misbehaving with a sharp clip around the earhole
<RichEd> oops left out the LP
<RichEd> LaserJock: will it be sorted out for hardy ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: it's been sorted for Hardy for months
<LaserJock> that was the easy part
<RichEd> excellent ... dood
<RichEd> thanks
<LaserJock> I'm on the gcompris-devel mailing list and will certainly let them know when it's fixed
<LaserJock> I also talked to some Canonical people to try to ... speed up getting it fixed
 * RichEd is confused ... 
<RichEd> "let them know when it's fixed" <- for gutsy ?
<RichEd> or does something need to be fixed for hardy ?
<LaserJock> gutsy
<LaserJock> nobody cares about Hardy yet
<LaserJock> but the gcompris developer is french and is really upset that gutsy messed up his translations
<LaserJock> he wanted to use Edubuntu to show of gcompris to french schools, but he says it's useless for him
<LaserJock> hmm, latest lang pack .debs in PPA aren't fixed
<LaserJock> gotta run, bbl
<stgraber> Edubuntu ready for testing (Alpha4 candidates) http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
#edubuntu 2008-02-01
<Nubae> I want to download alpha4 for testing, but which version should I download? desktop or server?
<ogra> to test ltsp use ubuntu-alternate
<Nubae> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all - and this?
<Nubae> btw, ogra, managed to get fat client working, but only with a minimal xfce env. starting from the terminal
<Nubae> the startup scripts are screwing something up somewhere
<ogra> the edubuntu CDs shouldnt be there
<ogra> all we will have for hardy is the addon and thats not ready yet, we'll skip alpha4 for edubuntu
<ogra> all ltsp technology already moved to ubuntu-alternate
<Nubae> ok, I'll give that a shot, is that basically choosing from a menu the ltsp parts, or what?
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2008-January/003218.html
<ogra> see the instructions at the bottom of that mail
<ogra> the menu entry will be added after the general menu changes are done ... until them it needs a manual option
<laga> ogra: that's great news.. makes it easier to make mythbuntu diskless clients
<ogra> yeah
<laga> too bad we don't have alternate disks
<ogra> well, lets see :)
<ogra> (if you mean in shipit=
<ogra> )
<laga> sorry, i was specifically referring to the mythbuntu disks
<ogra> ah
<ogra> oh, why dont you build alternate ?
<ogra> i imagine a mythbuntu server is a headless machine ...
<laga> not sure. gotta ask :)
<Nubae> there is no alpha4 ubuntu-alternate then? just daily builds?
<ogra> Nubae, its not released yet :)
<laga> ogra: not necessarily. not sure if you're familiar with mythtv, but you can have server and client on the same box
<Nubae> oh... I must be confused, thought it was
<ogra> i tested the 20080131.2 build yesterday there shouldnt be regressions and not many changes for alpha4
<ogra> i think its safe to grab that one
<juliux> morning
<Nubae> ok cool, will do then
<Nubae> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ - the one on this page then?
<ogra> might be that they rebuild the images ... so the current/ link might change in the middle of your download ... it usually points to the last numbered one, take that rather
<ogra> (one dir above)
<Nubae> ah ok got it, thanks
<ogra> btw usually the topic on #ubuntu-devel tells if an aplha is released (if you dont read the announce mailinglists)
<zoon> Hi guys
<zoon> Anyone here ?
<ogra> only 39 idlers ...
<ogra> :)
<zoon> :) Could anybody help me with a (I hope) dumb question ?
<zoon> I'm wondering how I can change the clients machines once for all ?
<ogra> nobody will know if you dont just ask it :)
<zoon> :)
<ogra> change in what way ?
<zoon> setup the menus, remove items, lock stuff, for all users at once
<ogra> install sabayon, create a profile and add all users
<zoon> so far, all I did was change it on the server itself, and it replicated, but I need stuff as admin that I don't as user
<zoon> sabayon is a different distro than edubuntu ?
<ogra> right, create two profiles then :)
<ogra> no, an app
<zoon> ok, and sabayon will let me do that ? is it designed for schools etc ?
<ogra> to edit the profiles it spawns a desktop in a window ... you make your changes to that desktop to your liking ... save that as profile ... every user you apply the profle to will have the desktop you defined
<zoon> ogra, thanks a lot, you definitly helped me here, i'm going to try it right now
<zoon> many thanks
<Nubae> hmmm there must be a way to get my startup to work... If I can login as any user from the terminal and type startx and that brings me into a working chroot environment
<Nubae> ogra, anything you want tested on x64? I'll have the weekend to play around with alpha4
<ogra> x64 needs a manual ltsp-build-client --arch i386 ... post install
<ogra> by default it can only use the packages on cd which only suffice for a 64bit client setup
<stgraber> ogra: Looks like we have a new italc with a reworked x11vnc server, maybe that'll solve the issue
<ogra> yay
<sakhi> great
<sakhi> kbye
<stgraber> ogra: we have fixed the bug !!!!!!
<stgraber> ogra: there are still some remaining warnings but the code now compile fine on amd64 by default + the VNC no longer crashes (and has been updated to the new version of x11vnc)
<stgraber> so we'll have a 1.0.6 out soon
<stgraber> ogra: UTF-8 issues fixed at the same time and I'm discussing the inclusion of the --isdport thing I did upstream so we'll basically only fix the UI and some local cmds
<stgraber> ogra: ok, delta from upstream is now : 0 :)
<stgraber> ogra: he applied all my patches
<sonjag> Hello! I would like my students to be able to record using their terminals (which have mic ports) but the mic doesn't work. Is there set up or troubleshooting that I can do to fix this?
<stgraber> sonjag: What version of edubuntu are you running ?
<stgraber> Gutsy Gibbon (7.10) has pulseaudio which gives mic support to apps using pulseaudio (and maybe alsa too)
<sonjag> stgraber, Sorry, should have said that. 7.04 Fiesty.
<stgraber> ah, Feisty is using esd and then doesn't have mic support
<stgraber> I don't know if there is a way to install pulseaudio on Feisty in the same way it's done with Gutsy, if yes that's the way you'll fix your issue
<stgraber> you may want to speak to ogra about that
<stgraber> or if you can, just upgrade to Gutsy (depends if that's a test network or an already used network)
<sonjag> Great sadness. Been thinking of upgrading... this will add to the push for that! I'll see if I can find Ogra and ask him. Yes, the LTSP servers are in production but I might be daring :) Any cautions about upgrading that you would give?
<Nubae> sonjag, or you can install a fat 'thin' client
<sonjag> Nubae, what is a fat thin client?
<Nubae> expand the thin client environment to make apps and devices local
<Nubae> sometimes called diskless workstations
<sonjag> Is that similar to allowing USB flash drives to mount and be used? I do that here. I am also able to get sound from the terminals, which are diskless workstations. Are you saying I can pass services to the microphone?
<stgraber> what he suggest is to put a complete system in the chroot
<Nubae> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPFatClients
<stgraber> so it won't use the edubuntu server for the X session but start it locally as you would with a standard computer
<stgraber> except that the hdd is network mounted
<Nubae> yep, /home is mounted via nfs already in feisty
<Nubae> so should be relatively easy
<Nubae> easier than any other solution I can think of
<stgraber> the main difference is that you'll have to update the chroot each time you want to add a software and you'll use your client's CPU instead of the server one
<stgraber> so works well only if you have really good clients
<Nubae> well, if he wants to use a mic, its likely its a multimedia setup
<Nubae> also, really good clients is relative... u can install a light desktop with xfce
<Nubae> the messy thing is authentication which u have to do with ldap
<sonjag> I have 2 different clients: Symbiont SYM1110 and HP t5135 terms.  They have 333MHz and 400MHz processors and 128MB of DDR RAM. Are those good enuf? And I authenticate against Active Directory with winbind. Can I continue to do that?
<Nubae> uuf... no
<sonjag> Nubae, no, can't authenticate, or no, not good enuf clients/
<Nubae> maybe with a minimal xfce setup, but really, those are good thin client
<Nubae> not good enough, and yes can authenticate against AD
<Nubae> look, if you do apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light in the chroot
<Nubae> and maybe firefox, and gdm
<Nubae> you'll have a really light environment
<Nubae> so could work
<Nubae> since u already have AD authenticating, it makes it slightly easier for u, u just have to set up the clients to authenticate against it, and prepare the chroot
<sonjag> Nubae, seems like my best options are either Ogra can tell me how to get PulseAudio into Fiesty or I upgrade. I don't like the sound of "really lightweight" idea... sounds like I'll be limiting us.  I'm also fairly new to this (about a year) so I'm not feeling that daring!
<sonjag> Thanks for the ideas, though. Interesting that you can do that. I'm always amazed at how flexible this stuff is.
<Nubae> well, its early days for this stuff too, I only managed to get the 'fat' thin clients working today, heh
<Nubae> but lightweight = expandable... it means fast
<sonjag> I like the idea of upgrading anyway, I want to use the load balancing. Right now I physically separate the terminals for fake load balancing.
<Nubae> you install the apps you want, but in the chroot, instead of in the server
<sonjag> I think I'll play with that on the side... not quite ready to risk production on that!
<sonjag> Thanks much!
<Nubae> well, the good thing about ltsp is you can install as many chroots as you like
<sonjag> huh?
<Nubae> one for each environment... hell you could even run fedora, debian, and ubuntu all along side each other in different environments
<sonjag> Like off the same server, without virtualization?
<Nubae> ep
<Nubae> yep
<sonjag> is that in the same link you sent me before?
<Nubae> no, there I'm speculating into the future, but its possible (drbl - another technology like ltsp) does it
<Nubae> I have 4 chroots running in tandem here... one with a special ATI driver compiled in the kernel, another with xfce, another normal one and a amd64 one
<sonjag> really interesting. I've never tried xfce... need to do that too. so much to do, so little time1
<Nubae> sonjag, I'm almost done with a HowTo for this, I'll let u know when its up
<sonjag> Thanks Nubae!
<sonjag> Another question: I have a NFS server with my home folders that the app servers mount. Works great. However, I want my students to be able to see those folders from Windows. Is there something I need to do to be able to do that?
<Nubae> nah, just share via samba
<Nubae> system administration share folders
<stgraber> ogra: 1.0.6-rc1 released containing most of my patches, the utf-8 patch and the fix for the network bug, I'm building it and should have packages ready for testing very soon
<sonjag> Nubae, I'm back. Okay, you're talking about the GUI with the share folders, right?
<Nubae> yeah
<sonjag> Slick. I'll go try it.
<stgraber> ogra: test packages are up : http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
<stgraber> ogra: if we don't find a bug, 1.0.6 will officially be released next week so we can use a proper upstream version
<stgraber> RichEd: we have a working iTalc !!! (in case you haven't read what I said a bit before)
<sonjag> Nubae, I tried making a shared Windows folder, but I can't browse to it from Windows. Any suggestions?
<LaserJock> ogra, RichEd: it seems we may get our gutsy gcompris translations Mondayish
<stgraber> ogra: new italc works except the demo mode which is a known bug by upstream and will be fixed soon
<ogra> stgraber, awesome news
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> LaserJock, likewise :)
<LaserJock> hopefully this works
<ogra> better than TCM in any case
<LaserJock> I'm currently checking the .po from rosetta against the one in the gcompris source
<ogra> and independent of ltsp
<ogra> oh, you mean the translations
<ogra> sorry
<LaserJock> downloading the the rosetta translations took 193MB and gcompris source is 86MB
<ogra> phew
<LaserJock> ogra: heh, I'm more optimistic about italc than translations ;-)
<ogra> well, for hardy its fixed you said
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> gutsy is a nice to have ...
<LaserJock> but bbdoin said that it was causing big problem in France
<LaserJock> since he was trying to get it into schools
<LaserJock> but he put up a wiki page with a workaround
<ogra> right, we should fix it i didnt say we shouldnt :)
<ogra> but freezes are higher prio for me atm
<LaserJock> well, I told gcompris-devel it'd be fixed like in November, so I'm a little embarrassed it's taken this long
<LaserJock> but yeah
<ogra> where is it stuck ?
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> apparently Launchpad was eating it or something
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> not a great advert for LP
<LaserJock> I kept bugging carlos and he got it fixed recently
<LaserJock> and then I talked to pitti and it looks like they are in the latest translations tarball he has
<ogra> yay
<LaserJock> I just want to make sure it's using the right ones
<LaserJock> because the stuff on Rosetta is totally wrong
<LaserJock> it's not a great advert at all for Rosetta/lang packs because gcompris is better translated usptream I think and we totally lost that
<LaserJock> ah crap, and I got the wrong gcrompis :/
<LaserJock> I shouldn't try to work with translations while sick :-)
<ogra> yeah
<stgraber> ogra: around ?
<stgraber> ogra: What should I test with Edubuntu for Alpha4 ?
<calimer-> LaserJock feel better
<calimer-> and I submitted an e-mail to the edubuntu mailing list today, wooo!!!
<guillaume> hi
<guillaume> anybody online?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<guillaume> ok am i the only one with a broken chroot?
<guillaume> recently both my edubuntu server cant upgrade the chroot
<guillaume> apt-get install does not work either
<guillaume> my clients boot fine but I wanted to install some drivers that required git
<guillaume> tryed apt-get install git-core but errors started popoing up
<guillaume> then tryed to upgrade and same errors poped up
<LaserJock> can you pastebin the errors?
<guillaume> hmmm pastebin
<guillaume> what and where is pastebin
<LaserJock> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<guillaume> ok im on it
<guillaume> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54395/
<guillaume> there you are
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> it's not wanting to install the kernel update
<guillaume> this server is a dual xeon (8cores) with 8gb with the 64 bit edubuntu GG
<guillaume> ya
<guillaume> and my other server is a simple intel core 2 duo with 3 gb with the 32 bit edubuntu and get the same error
<guillaume> this install is fresh from yesterday
<guillaume> its like dpkg was broken
<guillaume> I tryed reconfiguring dpkg and it seems ok
<LaserJock> well, it doesn't like that it can't do the update right
<LaserJock> dpkg itself isn't broken
<LaserJock> but it's left the system in a non-happy state
<guillaume> ok
<guillaume> line 83 is suspicious
<guillaume> Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386'':File exists
<LaserJock> yeah, basically it tries to run /etc/kernel/postrm.d/ltsp-update-kernels
<LaserJock> and that dies on that
<guillaume> hmm of course
<guillaume> can it update kernels from inside the chroot?
<LaserJock> well, I'm wondering if that's the problem
<LaserJock> it's meant to be done *outside* the chroot
<LaserJock> and so it's dying when it's run inside
<guillaume> yep
<guillaume> hmmm
<guillaume> so the script is broken
<LaserJock> I don't have LTSP installed here so I'm flying blind but let me check something real quick
<guillaume> thanx
<guillaume> I could install a nx server and give you an account
<LaserJock> nah, we're not that desperate yet ;-)
<guillaume> lol
<LaserJock> well hmm
<LaserJock> it looks like it should be running update-kernels instead of ltsp-update-kernels
<guillaume> hmm I could try that
<guillaume> where is the script residing
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> what if you get out of the chroot and run ltsp-update-kernels and then go back in
<guillaume> well it works but apt-get upgrade will fail again
<guillaume> Cannot open ``/boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386'':File exists
<guillaume> guillaume@poweredge:~$ sudo ltsp-update-kernels
<guillaume> [sudo] password for guillaume:
<guillaume> Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
<guillaume> Updating /var/lib/tftpboot directories for chroot: /opt/ltsp/amd64
<guillaume> guillaume@poweredge:~$
<guillaume> sorry for second last post
<guillaume> ok there are 2 scripts ltsp-update-kernels
<guillaume> one in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/kernel/postinst.d
<guillaume> other in postrm.d
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> now it's actually update-kernels in the chroot that is what's been called
<LaserJock> those should be symlinked to /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels in the chroot
<guillaume> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54396/
<guillaume> here is the script
<LaserJock> boy, I don't know what line it's having problems with
<LaserJock> guillaume: I don't see an open bug report on this
<LaserJock> guillaume: you might file a bug report and/or email edubuntu-users
<guillaume> ok
<LaserJock> I think this will require Oliver or somebody more familiar with the script
<guillaume> but I was wondering because both my different systems do that
<guillaume> thank you for your help
<LaserJock> yeah, I think maybe it could be a general problem
<LaserJock> as we just got a newish kernel in 7.10 it could be that you're the first to encounter the problem
<guillaume> ya the user base is not that big and poeple rarely upgrade the chroot
<LaserJock> yeah, if it was the server itself I bet there would be more reports
<guillaume> Is Oliver online at known times?
<LaserJock> yes, he's in Germany
<guillaume> ok
<LaserJock> ogra: you might want to look at guillaume's problem here ^^ when you're awak
<LaserJock> guillaume: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bugs is the place to look for or file bugs for LTSP
<guillaume> ok
<hyperactivecrond> Does edubuntu currenty implement a student scheduling system?
<LaserJock> not out of the box no
<LaserJock> it's something we'd definitely like to have
<LaserJock> but it's hard to find good/secure/maintained/supportable/free apps for it
<hyperactivecrond> yes
<LaserJock> we used to have SchoolTool
<hyperactivecrond> i tell ya, if a company wants to make money, they should sponser an open-source scheduling program and provide support for it for a fee
<hyperactivecrond> Programs like WinSchool (currently popular) charge yearly
<LaserJock> but SchoolTool had some problems, hopefully we'll get it back
<hyperactivecrond> see a big problem with this sort of programs is that MySQL isn't terribly good at this kind of stuff
<hyperactivecrond> for example: we'd need a new table every day for absentees
<hyperactivecrond> and a lot of tables in a database can slow it down, and MySQL isnt terribly fast
<hyperactivecrond> A sorting algorithm would have to be written
<hyperactivecrond> Everything would have to be tied into a nicer GUI
<hyperactivecrond> well at least a learnable one
<hyperactivecrond> I know with WinSchool, in theory, when a schedule sort is done, ~60% of the schedules are correct
<LaserJock> you should have a look at SchoolTool
<hyperactivecrond> see everything still needs to be done by hand.
<hyperactivecrond> Even with a smaller, Catholic high school of about 800 students, the inputable time is not feasable
<hyperactivecrond> for creating schedules
<hyperactivecrond> although, it'd still be more accurate probably </tongue in cheek?
<hyperactivecrond> eh HTML parse error there. s/?/>/g
<hyperactivecrond> It looks like an interesting project if it ever takes off
#edubuntu 2008-02-02
<guillaume_> ogra you there?
<stgraber> guillaume_: it's 01:42 at GMT+1
<LaserJock> he'll be on in the morning in Germany
<guillaume_> hehe allright
<guillaume_> I submitted the bug report
<guillaume_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/188223
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 188223 in ltsp "CHROOT will not upgrade" [Undecided,New]
<LaserJock> I saw it
<LaserJock> :-)
<guillaume_> k
<guillaume_> i was wondering if it was good practice to use the pastebin in a bug report
<stgraber> no, not really
<stgraber> usually you create a text file, then attach it to the bug
<guillaume_> is the pastebin reseted once in a while?
<stgraber> some pastebin doesn't keep the history for long
<guillaume_> ok ill attach a text file then
<guillaume_> ok while i am here
<guillaume_> this bug was discovered while I was actually trying to make a LT2600 work with edubuntu
<guillaume_> I managed to make my wyse s10 work but the lt2600 still isnt working
<guillaume_> obviously like with most thin client, the xorg -configure doenst work
<guillaume_> so I have to point to a xorg.conf file in the the lts.conf file
<guillaume_> the wyse s10 and the lt2600 both use amd geode processor
<guillaume_> so specifying the amd driver solved it for the s10 but not for the lt2600
<guillaume_> the lt2600 has a amd geode lx800 processor
<guillaume_> it just hangs when trying to start the xserver on the client
<guillaume_> screen goes black and keyborad stop responding
<guillaume_> I feel like I am talking to myself...
<stgraber> sort of :) I'm busy testing the remaining ISOs for Alpha4 (to be released today)
<guillaume_> ok
<guillaume_> btw i tryed testing the alpha3 and it could not buil the ltsp chroot for some reason
<guillaume_> I only tried the 64 bit version
<guillaume_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/151503
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 151503 in ltsp "ltsp scripts dont work properly if chroot basedir is a symlink" [Wishlist,In progress]
<guillaume_> could my problem be this?
<stgraber> is you chroot basedir a symlink ?
<IsleVegan> is there an issue booting an ebox 3800 (via 800 mhz) from a dual processor amd64 x2 with edubuntu 7.10. the thin client gets an ip address via dhcp from one of the server's 2 ethernet cables then I get "pxe-t01: file not found" and then "pxe-e3b: tftp error - file not found" and then "PXE-M0F: Exiting Intel PXE ROM"
<IsleVegan> this might be relevant: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2006-August/000214.html
<IsleVegan> ?
<IsleVegan> should i do this: "sudo rm -r /opt/ltsp/amd64" and then this "sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386"? does the amd64 folder need to be removed?
<LaserJock> that would create a i386 chroot
<IsleVegan> i'm new to ltsp / edubuntu
<IsleVegan> i use ubuntu / xubuntu at home
<IsleVegan> but this is new to me
<LaserJock> and I don't do much with LTSP so I might not be much help :-)
<IsleVegan> ok
<IsleVegan> that's what this room is for, right?
<IsleVegan> i have the ethernet cable going directly from the thin client to one of the server's ethernet ports, wasn't sure if that would work without a hub / switch or crossover cable between but if it gets a dhcp address i guess it's ok
<IsleVegan> right?
<LaserJock> actually, you could also ask the #ltsp channel
<LaserJock> ahh
<LaserJock> you need a switch or crossover cable
<LaserJock> it won't work directly over a regular ethernet cable
<IsleVegan> hmm
<LaserJock> IsleVegan: I ran into that when I first tried LTSP
<LaserJock> then I got a crossover cable and it worked
<IsleVegan> well, it did get a dhcp address the way it is connected
<IsleVegan> i don't have a crossover cable or switch here, just a router, and i'm not sure if the router can do that
<IsleVegan> so, i'm trying it this way for now, until i can get a switch / crossover cable, i guess
<IsleVegan> it booted up to the spinning gnome cursor
<IsleVegan> saw the EDUBUNTU graphic
<IsleVegan> now there is just the spinning cursor in the middle of the display, then a flash and a brief moment of the login screen then repeat
<IsleVegan> and it's repeating continuously, like there might be a gui / x / gdm issue?
<sickonnet> hiii
<sickonnet> how to make support for printer on ltsp gutsy
<LaserJock> IsleVegan: that could be. You might want to email edubuntu-users (you can find it on http://lists.ubuntu.com)
<IsleVegan> ok, thanks, but you learned something too. that it is bootable when connected directly, possibly with the right hardware
<IsleVegan> YAY :-)
<Erik1> i installed ubuntu desktop from a cd i burned from the dowload site of ubuntu. it installed ok and I added some stuff with synaptic. All this yesyerday evening. Now I boot up and my installation shows I have EDUBUNTU. what's the deal here ???
<Nubae> I have a silly question (maybe)... If I have a fat client environment (ltsp with whole edubuntu environment in it) can I update that environment via synaptic from the fat client itself... or does it have to be done in the chroot on the server?
<laga> um. if you're using squashfs, you can't update it from the client
<Nubae> yeah am, so how could I change it to so that is possible?
<laga> you can change your client to boot from the chroot iself, eg export it over NFS. i think you can do that by setting an environment variable somewhere..
<laga> but to be honest, i wouldn't do that
<Nubae> what I'm ideally looking for is, start up via ltsp from server with full ubuntu environment (local apps, devices, etc) but still be able to centrally manage...
<laga> a) NFS doesn't work well with unionfs
<laga> b) NFS is slower for booting
<laga> IIRC
<laga> what do you want to manage centrally?
<Nubae> installations
<Nubae> of apps, user management, etc... as much as possible really
<laga> ah
<Nubae> what about loading a generic part via squashfs and then the rest via nfs?
<laga> well, why don't you just do that on the server and run ltsp-update-image?
<Nubae> the machines are all the same
<laga> how do you save files on the fat client, btw?
<Nubae> memory stick, nfs mounted home
<laga> ah
<Nubae> but its not ideal yet... it works, but with many issues
<laga> if my patches are accept for hardy, you'll be able to have a writable layer on top of the squashfs. well, actually, that's what's happening currently, but the changes are discared as soon as you reboot
<Nubae> wow, that is cool indeed
<laga> is does have its issues, too. eg you shouldn't run the package manager on the fat client or you'll run into issues as soon as you update the squashfs.
<Nubae> yeah, its all new territory...
<laga> Nubae: my suggestion for you right now is that you just chroot into the chroot, apply your changes, exit, and run ltsp-update-image
<laga> that's cumbersome but the cleanest way i can think of
<Nubae> thats what I currently do ;-)
<laga> ah.
<laga> disclaimer: i have never really used LTSP, i just hack it for fat client support
<Nubae> oh cool, well I'm testing fat stuff a lot at the moment...
<Nubae> I tried a full edubuntu-desktop apt-get but that didnt work out in the startup phases.... the init scripts freeze the startup
<Nubae> so I tried a minimal install with a xfce desktop, and taht worked
<Nubae> authenticating via ldap
<laga> ldap? cool, never used that
<laga> i suggest you search the wiki, there's a switch that'll let you use NFS
<Nubae> I'm just working on a fat client howto... I'll show you when its done, maybe you can advise me on what should be changed
<laga> but be warned, it's likely that it'll break unionfs with the current gutsy kernel. it should be fixed in the kernel that currently is in gutsy-proposed.
<Nubae> I'll do that...
<laga> Nubae: um
<laga> Nubae: never mind. even if you use NFS; you'll still not be able to commit changes. i think
<laga> not with unionfs on top of that
<Nubae> its not that important... I was just wondering...
<Nubae> apt-getting the chroot is easy enough
<laga> yup
<Nubae> i just hate having to build the image every time
<Nubae> sometimes teh changes are so minimal
<laga> Nubae: my "fat clients" are really just media centre pcs (mythtv frontends for mythbuntu), so it's a lot less complicated
<laga> Nubae: i hear ya.
<laga> i love it when i run ltsp-update-image instead of ltsp-update-kernel, too :/
<Nubae> so how are your clients fat, just kernel and module changes?
<laga> Nubae: "fat" means, by my definition, that the client does all the work
<laga> eg video display
<Nubae> yeah right, local apps and local devices
<Nubae> so you installed the entire edubuntu-desktop successfully in the chroot?
<laga> no. i installed mythbuntu-desktop. :)
<laga> i created a plugin for ltsp-build-client
<laga> based off the kiosk mode
<Nubae> ah ok, I'm not sure what mythbuntu is
<laga> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythbuntu/mythbuntu-diskless/annotate/laga%40prometheus-20080202002313-zpo3cpwwduycc4iy?file_id=30mythtv-20080117192245-pp5zhqeqyyhjciwx-1
<laga> Nubae: a HTPC distribution based on ubuntu and mythtv
<laga> Nubae: think tivo on steroids
<Nubae> ah, and you autologin so no need for authentication?
<laga> kind of
<laga> i created a --mythbuntu-copy-user-credentials switch which just copies user and password from the user running ltsp-build-client
<laga> you can also just pass in a password using --mythbuntu-user-credentials user:pass
<Nubae> hmmm... you're script is a good base for other fat environments
<laga> thanks. as i said, i just added stuff to the kiosk mode :)
<laga> Nubae: what's still missing are the changes i mentioned earlier to have a persistent copy-on-write branch to preserve files over reboots
<Nubae> so on startup, what do you not boot from ltsp-client-core?
<laga> you mean what i'm not using from it?
<Nubae> yeah, did u blacklist anything?
<laga> i don't remember what it does, i just remember i don't need it
<laga> i think it sets up stuff like sound and local devices
<Nubae> I run into problems with ltsp-client-core on startup... system freezes bootup process, but cant pin point exactly where
<Nubae> just know its around the ltsp-client-core setup phase
<laga> remove it temporarily and try again
<laga> as you can see i removed it completely
<Nubae> EARLY_PACKAGES="ltsp-client"  - what does that do?
<laga> it tells ltsp-build-client to install ltsp-client before most of the other packagres i assume
<laga> i also added RC6_WHITELIST="reboot alsa-utils" because i don't want to be yelled at when volume settings are not preserved across reboots
<Nubae> yeah, guess that makes sense... well, I'm doing this at the moment: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/fati386 apt-get install edubuntu-addon-light gdm network-manager gnome-mount firefox openoffice.org
<Nubae> that and ldap
<laga> yeah, that works as well i suppose
<laga> you just have all the ltsp-specific stuff still in there
<Nubae> but somewhere between that and apt-get install edubuntu-desktop something breaks
<laga> do you get a error message when booting or when installing?
<Nubae> not installation wise, but trying to startup... I cant get to the error messages
<Nubae> I took out quiet and splash from pxelinux.cfg
<Nubae> goes through, almost to the end, and then just sits there... can't even login with root...
<laga> remove the ltsp-client-core startup links in /etc/rc2.d/ and try again.. not sure if it helps. also get a backup so you don't break anything :)
<Nubae> hehe, I have 3 fat chroot at the moment, all in various stages
<Nubae> I tried moving the rc2.d ltsp-client-core startup up after gdm
<Nubae> that didnt help
<laga> do you actually need ltsp-client-core?
<Nubae> well, haven't really thought about it, maybe, maybe not
<Nubae> I'm gonna take a look at it... but still, I think its stopping before it gets to that
<Nubae> whats the best way to test this, take out startup scripts from the runlevels?
<laga> rm :)
<Nubae> u mean mv ../someplaceforbackup/
<Nubae> :-)
<laga> sure.
<laga> %)
<Nubae> well, you're script has given me some ideas... I'll start with a howto though... then move to a script :-p
<laga> i'm glad it's helping you
<laga> i hope i can submit my initramfs patches this weekend so you (I ;)) can have persistent directories for changes
<Nubae> so what's your audience for this mythtv thing?
<laga> everyone who uses mythbuntu ;)) heh
<laga> it's for everyone who has a TV card and wants to have a powerful PVR to record things for him
<Nubae> ah mythbuntu is a distro?
<laga> it's also for people who want to have a complete media centre solution, eg it also has a UI to put on the TV
<laga> yes
 * Nubae is a little slow today
<laga> :)
<Nubae> hmmm, I just took out ltsp-client-core and system freezes at Starting up log daemon
<Nubae> I don't get it... I'm gonna have to document every detailed change and then rebuild the image until I get to what is doing this
<laga> :/
<laga> maybe you can install a sshd
<laga> and log in
<Nubae> I've tried that, I can't even ping the machine when it gets to the freeze point
<laga> :/
<laga> i wonder if that's caused by unionfs
<Nubae> if I could log in as root i could check the logs
 * laga tends to blame unionfs for everything
<Nubae> maybe, but why?
<Nubae> hehe, yeah skapegoat is always good
<Nubae> if there is a solution on the horizon
<Nubae> :-)
<Nubae> thats why I thought, startup with unionfs, then move over to nfs
<laga> :)
<laga> if it was unionfs, the new kernel in gutsy-proposed would likely help
<laga> don't blame me if it doesn't help, though :)
<Nubae> whats gutsy-proposed?
<laga> if you check your /etc/apt/sources.list
<laga> you can see it says things like http://some.mirror/ubuntu gutsy main restricted
<laga> if you add another line saying "gutsy-proposed" instead of just "gutsy", you get stuff from gutsy-proposed. it contains packages which might eventually come into gutsy-updates once they're deemed stable enough.
<laga> hint hint: they might break  stuff :)
<Nubae> righto, ok, didnt know that repository existed
<laga> i'm assuming you're running gutsy.
<Nubae> I'm gonna install alpha4 now anyway, so I'll test with that
<Nubae> yeah I am
<laga> not sure if alpha4 is fixed yet
<Nubae> fixed? whats wrong with it? I have a recent daily build ogra told me is stable enough
<laga> ah
<laga> well, with regards to unionfs. if that ever was your problem, that is
 * laga ponders
 * laga thinks hard
<Nubae> yeah sure gonna try it, I need a solution, because I have 21 dual core intel pcs with 2 gigs of ram sitting here running as ltsp thin clients
<laga> not, that really shouldn't be the problem. unless you boot from nfs instead of squashfs
<laga> haha :)
<laga> nice setup
<Nubae> yeah, the school has been moaning at me for a while now about this
<Nubae> bandwidth lockups with multimedia, flash, shockwave
<laga> :/
<Nubae> ah, and they are laptops, lol
<laga> laptops.. school..
<laga> let me guess, they're chained to the desks?
<laga> they computer lab at my school were a bunch of durons on VIA boards running win 98 or ME
<laga> i often wished i could just raid the place with some ltsp ninjas
<Nubae> yep chained indded
<Nubae> they spent over 1000 euros per laptop, just to see them used as thin clients chained to desks
<Nubae> bought because the 'looked good'
<laga> it's not much better if they're fat clients chained to desks
<laga> ouch.
<laga> a used thin client + new LC display  is like 300â¬ i guess..
<Nubae> I just bought 20 old p3 500mhz for 200 euros
<Nubae> sorry 400
<Nubae> in total
<laga> nice
<Nubae> many companies are just trying to get rid of their older stuff and will even pay people to do it... I fantasised about starting a ltsp based company that did something with that
<Nubae> u know, took from the rich and gave to the poor :p
<Nubae> call it robinhoontu
<laga> hehe
<laga> i think there's something like that in the US...
<laga> http://freegeek.org/
<Nubae> r u in the US?
<laga> no
<laga> germany
<Nubae> ah, I'm in Spain myself... think it will be some time before something like that is possible here
<laga> yup
<laga> spain. </jealousy>
 * laga goes out a bit :)
<Nubae> South of Spain even ;
<Guil-T> i have a thin client with a geode gx processor, it suport good rez and all but graphics are extremely slow
<Guil-T> are there some tweeks i can try to boost performance
<Guil-T> even the desktop is slow and choppy
<markvandenborre> I have a bit of trouble with undisciplined users not closing down their sessions
<markvandenborre> and load going up to > 10
<markvandenborre> the human approach doesn't seem to be working yet
<markvandenborre> I wonder if it would be useful to kill all processes with uid > 999 every night
<markvandenborre> no one is ever doing anything late at night
<markvandenborre> or would you suggest other, more gentle stopgap solutions
<stgraber> markvandenborre: you may want interested in xterminator, haven't used it though but it looks like what you are looking for
<stgraber> https://edge.launchpad.net/xterminator
<stgraber> s/edge\.// if you are not beta tester
<markvandenborre> stgraber: will have a look
<markvandenborre> the thing is it doesn't need a lot of idle users
<markvandenborre> to make the load go up incredibly high
<markvandenborre> idle or logged out ones
<markvandenborre> so if 2 or 3 are still there, this one is not a solution
<markvandenborre> 2 or 3 nautilus instances, I mean, because the load will go up to > 3, 4, 10 sometimes
<markvandenborre> but thanks for the suggestion anyway
<markvandenborre> !
<markvandenborre> (btw, this is rather beefy hardware, dual quadcore xeon with 4Gb of ram and 15k rpm hardware raid 5 disks
<markvandenborre> )
<markvandenborre> so that's not the problem either
#edubuntu 2008-02-03
<lulemurfan> join/ #x10
<Marco_> hallo zusammen :)
<markvandenborre> hi all, I thought that the following might be interesting for some edubuntu users:
<markvandenborre> I made a tiny one line bash script that kills all human processes
<markvandenborre> cat /usr/sbin/killhumanprocesses
<markvandenborre> #! /bin/bash
<markvandenborre> pkill -U `cut /etc/passwd -d: -f3 | egrep ^[0-9]{4}$ | tr '\n' ',' | sed 's/,$/\n/'`
#edubuntu 2009-01-26
<nothingman> ciao, all!
<manasses> HI
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Mip5> Morning Gang! I see I forgot to "leave" on Friday - DOH!
<bsnyder> i just installed ubuntu 8.10 desktop using the all alt cd - it worked just fine
<bsnyder> then i installed the edubuntu 8.10 add-on, rebooting and now x won't start
<bsnyder> i'm seeing errors like, x server fails to start... no screens found
<bsnyder> so i went thru both installs again - same problem
<bsnyder> any suggestions? has anyone else experienced this?
<sbalneav> Don't think so, but maybe you could tell us what kind of video hardware you have?
<sbalneav> it may be a simple fix.
<sbalneav> For 8.10, there shouldn't be anything in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file.  Is yours empty?
<bsnyder> it's an older pc so i don't know off-hand - let me try to take a peek at the card
<bsnyder> it's an ATI card, but i'm not sure what model
<bsnyder> and the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file is not empty
<bsnyder> it contains some basic stuff but not enough for X to boot
<bsnyder> sbalneav: ^^^
<sbalneav> then what I'd try doing is moving it out of the way, and replacing it with an empty xorg.conf
<sbalneav> see if that works.
<bsnyder> ok, i'll give that a shot
<bsnyder> nope, no dice
<sbalneav> how are you restarting?  With invoke-rc.d gdm restart?
<sbalneav> I'm off to a meeting.  However, failing that, you could always do an "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" to reconfigure the X server.
<sbalneav> I'll be back in a couple of hours if you still need me.
<bsnyder> well that's what i've been doing, but it only walks me thru the keyboard setup
<bsnyder> for some reason, it's not walkign me thru the video config at all
<Lns> hrmm...ubuntu wiki format is so strange. When logged out of my acct, it doesn't show the horizontal lines under the == Title == headers, but when I *am* logged in, it shows them. I've cleared my cache and all, to.
<Lns> too*
#edubuntu 2009-01-27
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck_Jr> good morning sbalneav
<Ahmuck_Jr> Goooood Morning channel
<nubae> hrmmmmmmmmm
<nubae>  Report from the field (graz,Austria#1)
<nubae> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
<nubae> what's that mean?
<Lns> nubae: moodle?
<nubae> no its a message I sent to devel
<nubae> oh missed the important bit
<nubae> The reason it is being held:
<nubae>    Message has implicit destination
<Lns> oh noes! implicit! heh
<nubae> Geode is dead... long live the Geode....
<Lns> don't say that to Gadi! =)
#edubuntu 2009-01-28
<Elitedatabase> hey could some on help me with ubuntu
<Ahmuck_Jr> Elitedatabase: #ubuntu channel
<Ahmuck_Jr> however, what is your problem?
<Elitedatabase> I see prepare disk its give me 2 thing there
<Elitedatabase> Guide use entire disk and manual
<Elitedatabase> but I rly have windows xp and I'm trying to us doul boot
<Elitedatabase> what should I do
<Ahmuck_Jr> godo question.  there is a dual boot tutorial
<Ahmuck_Jr> let me see if i can find it
<Ahmuck_Jr> by the way, ur native language is english?
<Elitedatabase> I try but all they show me is auto dualboot
<Elitedatabase> and I dont have the chose
<Ahmuck_Jr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot?action=show&redirect=WindowsDualBootHowTo
<Elitedatabase> I only have two choise
<Ahmuck_Jr> u should have a ubuntu choice as well as a windows choice.  do you?
<Elitedatabase> I only have 2 choice
<Elitedatabase> with they are use entire disk and manual
<Elitedatabase> and I dont finde the manual tutorial
<Elitedatabase> and I dont see the manual totorial
<Ahmuck_Jr> automatic will re-size your partition and then install ubuntu in the new space.  however you MUST have defraged your windows partition before trying to do this
<Ahmuck_Jr> it's all there in that link
<Ahmuck_Jr> r u on windows xp or vista?
<Elitedatabase> so to do automatix you have to defraged
<Ahmuck_Jr> have you backed up your data?
<Ahmuck_Jr> to do auto, u need to defrag xp
<Elitedatabase> and then that i'll see that choise automatic re-size
<Ahmuck_Jr> #2 under the ubuntu installation
<Ahmuck_Jr> correct
<Elitedatabase> o I understand now
<Ahmuck_Jr> read through the tutorial first
<Ahmuck_Jr> before you start anything
<Elitedatabase> thank you ahmuck I'll
<Ahmuck_Jr> your welcom
<Elitedatabase> Thank you very much for the info
<Elitedatabase> see you latetr
<elitedatabase> hey Ahmuck are you there
<elitedatabase> hey any one in here
<elitedatabase> any one in here could help me
<elitedatabase> hey could any one help me with ubuntu
<nubae> greets LaserJock
<Ahmuck> good morning
<nubae> good evening
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<nubae> did u see my mail I sent to the edubuntu-devel list
<nubae> it was held... because I bcced it there I believe
<LaserJock> nubae: what was it about?
<nubae> teh educator talk I had in Graz
<LaserJock> no, I don't think I got that
<nubae> concerning what would be nice in edu apps
<nubae> mostly in suar
<nubae> sugar
<LaserJock> can you resend directly?
<nubae> ok, I'll send now
<LaserJock> thanks
<nubae> LaserJock: read it?
<LaserJock> nubae: I haven't gotten anything yet
<nubae> hmmm sent it to both lists, users and devel
<Ahmuck> nice nubae
<nubae> oh... btw, I was at an olpc-deployment meeting yesterday
<nubae> and there is great enthusiasm for building a ubuntu based server to manage the XOs
<nubae> I thought it might make sense to work within the edubuntu server seed infrastructure
<nubae> and it would automatically pull in more devs
<nubae> to edubuntu
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah perhaps
<LaserJock> nubae: regarding math quizzes
<LaserJock> nubae: what if you had students paired up and had one student write the "question" while the other answers
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey hey!  I've been doing more digging into the sabayon thing.  Hopefully I'll have a patch by the weekend.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, what kind of things have you been finding?
<LaserJock> hi RichEd
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Well, I read through the source, and I think what's happened is that sabayon expects the panels to be named with certain defaults, and I think Ubuntu changes the default.
<sbalneav> I think the better solution would be to actually READ the list of panel objects, and iterate through them
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, that's along the lines of what I was thinking, I didn't know what specifically was doing it but that makes sense
<sbalneav> but I'm goingt to verify that tonight.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what time do you expect to be on tonight?
<alkisg> Does sabayon do a simple copy/dump of gconf settings, or does it try to parse them with some intelligence?
<LaserJock> alkisg: were you the one who wrote a pyqt user manager app?
<alkisg> erm, the correct term would by "trying to write", and I started with pygtk...
<LaserJock> k
<alkisg> ...but I'm still thinking of switching to pyqt, I'm not sure! :)
<LaserJock> and was it a thin-client manager or just user management in general?
<alkisg> Anyone interested in helping out? :)
<alkisg> In general. The plan would be to select a bunch of users and execute scripts on them
<LaserJock> well, the other day I talked with the Ubuntu Gnome maintainer about the User and Groups tool
<LaserJock> alkisg: what about adding/remove users and groups?
<alkisg> It would nicely integrate to the tool, but I don't know if I'll have the time to implement it properly for nis/ldap etc
<LaserJock> right, well, basically the Gnome maintainer said that Users and Groups is essentially dead/depricated
<LaserJock> in the sense that Debian/Ubuntu are the only major distros using it
<alkisg> What do other gnome distros use?
<LaserJock> Fedora, openSUSE, etc. write their own system management tools
<LaserJock> and so there's very little effort going into Gnome's tools
<alkisg> ...and can't any of them be upgraded to become cross-distro?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> perhaps Fedora's new one but I can't find it so I don't know
<alkisg> ...so basically, a new tool would be the best here.
<LaserJock> so, I'm wondering if we should start working on our own
<LaserJock> and if it works we can contribute it upstream
<alkisg> Well, I'm totally interested. I don't know python nor gtk (!!!) but I have a lot of programming experience, I think I'll be able to produce something better than what users-admin is now.
<alkisg> Are you in for programming / organization / something?
<LaserJock> I think we should discuss design and specifications on edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> to get some more input on what's needed
<alkisg> It could also replace sabayon for simple tasks, like putting some things into the panels, setting a wallpaper, clearing firefox cache etc.
<LaserJock> hmm
<alkisg> LaserJock: I have a pretty clear idea on what it's needed, at least for the simple administration tasks that teachers need. I've talked to several teachers about it.
<LaserJock> for me conceptionally I would like to separate user management from setting managment
<alkisg> But I have absolutely no idea about "real admins".
<alkisg> But most admins would need to apply settings for certain users, not all users
<alkisg> So a user-list would be needed to select the users (or groups) on which the settings would be applied
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> a settings management tool obviously needs to know who to apply the settings to
<LaserJock> but that's fairly trivial
<alkisg> Simple examples: Set a specific firefox start page for all the teachers. Clear the thumbnail cache for all students. Change the group for all students that passed the class.
<LaserJock> what we're in need of is a good to to manage the actual users and groups
<alkisg> I see. I was looking at kuser the other day, it supports ldap, nis and stuff. I've never even used ldap, I don't think I'm ready to implement something that difficult. Something a little better than users-admin, OK, but not as good as kuser.
<LaserJock> one step at a time :-)
<LaserJock> I have no idea how to do it at this moment either
<LaserJock> but I know how to read users/groups from python, that's a good first step
<LaserJock> we then need to figure out how to create/modify
<LaserJock> one suggestion was to simply wrap useradd, etc.
<alkisg> I already have a listbox filled with the groups/users, but I don't think I did it with the proper way
<alkisg> I directly parsed the files, but I think there are functions for this.
<Lns> alkisg: getent comes to mind
<alkisg> And I didn't know if I should use /etc/login.defs or adduser.conf or system-gnome-tools settings to decide which are system users and which simple users
<alkisg> At least in C there are lower level functions than getent
<sbalneav> getent *should* be used, because getent will obey the libnss chain.
<alkisg> sbalneav: I'll have to agree with you, as I don't know what libnss is :)
<sbalneav> Personally, I think there are only 3 things that are needed.
<alkisg> I just saw a C function in a man page that claimed to read user accounts
<alkisg> I don't remember the name, though
<sbalneav> 1) Sabayon should be fixed, so as to work correctly.  It's there, and a good idea, so re-inventing the wheel shouldn't be necessary.
<sbalneav> 2) We need to modify the standard Xsession set of tools to:
<sbalneav>   a) Allow easy addition of user-based scripts which could be installed in /usr/share/...
<sbalneav>   b) allow for *logout* scripts, allowing the same as above
<sbalneav>   c) a set of tools (command line at first, similar to update-rc.d, with possibly a gui front end) to allow administrators to install/reorder/remove Xsession scripts
<sbalneav> 3) A User/Group gui tool that's got a solid plug-in architechture, to allow for local-db, LDAP, what-have-you admin.
<sbalneav> All 3 of these tasks are relatively(!) simple, and would be certainly easier than trying to write an it-does-everything-including-wash-your-socks application.
<sbalneav> More to the point, 1 and 2 could easily be moved upstream.
<ogra> but you would end up with clean socks !!
<ogra> dont underestimate that !
<sbalneav> I'm working on 1) atm :)
<sbalneav> ogra: wear sandals :)
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> That's my opinion, FWIW
<ogra> apart from the socks i'm all with you
<sbalneav> ogra: ok, we'll create a separate update-socks.sh app for that.
<ogra> it could go into the plugin dir ... yeah :)
<alkisg> About (3), I'm sure we all agree. I don't know how much sabayon can help, though.
<sbalneav> Well, sabayon handles the desktop management.
<alkisg> I didn't use it because well, it didn't work, but how can it help in modifying settings of existing users?
<sbalneav> i.e. panel/background/etc.
<sbalneav> alkisg: make settings mandatory
<ogra> lockdown ...
<LaserJock> alkisg: sabayon applies a specific "profile" to specific users
<LaserJock> the profile can include a lot of things
<alkisg> What is a profile? A collection of gconf settings?
<LaserJock> and more
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> and more
<LaserJock> pessulus does gconf settings
<alkisg> And it just puts them to the mandatory gconf branch?
<sbalneav> It *can*, yes.
<LaserJock> alkisg: it essentually unzips a new $HOME at login
<alkisg> And how does it select the settings? E.g. I logon as sabayon user, I try to only put a language applet in the panel, but I end up applying 30 settings instead of one, can this be a problem?
<alkisg> Because if it was task based, it would be much more clean
<LaserJock> alkisg: you edit the profile in a nested X session and it tracks the changes you make
<alkisg> E.g. select 10 users, goto the scripts menu, and select "insert language applet"
<LaserJock> alkisg: you can choose to ignore some changes or not, it gives you the option
<alkisg> So the user sees a list of 100 gconf settings, and selects the ones he wants?
<alkisg> It doesn't sound easy...
<sbalneav> It gives you a window with a standard desktop, via xnest
<sbalneav> This window has a desktop in it, with the two panels, etc.
<sbalneav> If you want to add an applet to the panel, you just... add it.
<LaserJock> alkisg: you start with a default desktop and you mess around with what you want, including gconf settings
<sbalneav> it doesn't *get* any easier.
<LaserJock> then you save the profile
<LaserJock> and then you can choose which users to apply it to
<alkisg> I still think it's the wrong approach
<alkisg> But I need to find the correct examples to express it for you... :(
<LaserJock> I think it's great for what it does
<LaserJock> but it may not be exactly what you want
<alkisg> LaserJock: it's basically the same as creating a new user, and copying all gconf settings to the mandatory or default profile.
<LaserJock> no, it does way more than gconf
<alkisg> This is the wrong approach because a lot of settings get written that the user doesn't know about
<sbalneav> what user?
<alkisg> E.g. today I tried this: http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/gconf-8.html.en
<alkisg> The proposed gnome way to modify the panels
<alkisg> I ended up with 100 settings in the default profile, but I only wanted 1 single extra applet
<alkisg> So e.g. in the new Ubuntu version which would have a new applet (fusa or whatever), my profile would be wrong
<alkisg> But if I specifically wrote a script for it, then it would only add this one panel, and it would do exactly what I wanted
<LaserJock> alkisg: right
<alkisg> And if the users-admin tool (3) had a support for scripts, there could be a collection of e.g. 1000 scripts with a seaching facility to enable me to do the little things I wanted
<LaserJock> but sabayon is for really tweaking things around, not scripting things together
<sbalneav> Well, what that page proposes is exporting an ENTIRE GCONF TREE, modifying one thing, then re-importing it.
<LaserJock> right, and those scripts have to be updated, there's only so much they can do, and they could easily conflict
<alkisg> sbalneav: isn't that what sabayon does with gconf settings?
<sbalneav> so all the stuff that's part of gconf's defaults will get copied out too.
<sbalneav> No.
<alkisg> LaserJock: yes, but the scripts could be maintained by different people. Look at gimp scripts for example.
<alkisg> sbalneav: is there some way for me to run sabayon, to see it first hand?
<sbalneav> Sigh
<sbalneav> sabayon *is broken*, I'm working *on fixing it*
<alkisg> I _can_ apply a patch, if you have some thing...
<sbalneav> i.e. my point 1
<sbalneav> I don't have anything definite as of yet.
<alkisg> OK, I thought it was broken but it was working a little... :) :D
<LaserJock> alkisg: but in this case there isn't any maintanence, you just make the changes you want to make and save it
<sbalneav> So, let me ask you a question.
<alkisg> LaserJock: could you rephare that? I didn't get it
<sbalneav> You say you don't like sabayon/etc because it will "change too much". i.e. 100's of things.
<alkisg> *rephrase
<alkisg> sbalneav: yes, and it's also difficult to apply to a specific set of users
<sbalneav> So how do you propose to add "just one thing" to the panel?
<alkisg> (but that's what I think from what I've read, I haven't even run the program yet)
<alkisg> sbalneav: with a script specifically written for this one thing
<sbalneav> You can apply by one user, a group of defined users, or by unix-group
<LaserJock> alkisg: with sabayon you don't have to have lots of people maintaining scripts
<sbalneav> what script?
<LaserJock> alkisg: you just fire up sabayon, make your changes, and save it
<alkisg> sbalneav: can I select 2 groups, 3 users and clear their firefox cache?
<LaserJock> alkisg: it's all GUI and nice
<sbalneav> You can apply that profile to 2 groups and 3 users, yes.
<alkisg> OK, I'll have to see it, I thought that this couldn't be done.
<sbalneav> You can set firefox settings as part of sabayon.
<sbalneav> you can't do a "clear now" thing, since sabayon profiles are only run at login.
<alkisg> The scripts I'm talking about would be python or shell scripts developed by anyone. If they were good, they would be accepted to the main application.
<Lns> with Sabayon, how does it juggle user-defined settings and "profile defined" settings, say, if the user has their own bookmarks, and then you add a bookmark through the profile they are a part of... ?
<alkisg> sbalneav: so I can't copy a file to a set of users right now...
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, we're just saying that with sabayon there are 0 scripts
<sbalneav> No.
<sbalneav> Sabayon profiles are run *at login*
<LaserJock> Lns: the user only get's the profile
<LaserJock> *gets
<alkisg> LaserJock: yes, but you can't also guarantee that the changes are what the admin wants. They're GUI based changes, not task based changes.
<alkisg> So if a user-specific path gets entered somewhere in gconf, sabayon will blindly copy it
<Lns> LaserJock: so you're basically saying that the profiles that sabayon creates are mandatory, and overwrite the users' defined settings.
<LaserJock> alkisg: you can review the changes if you like
<sbalneav> Lns: yes.
<LaserJock> Lns: yes, essentially
<alkisg> LaserJock: for simple admins, looking though 100 gconf settings isn't something useful, I think...
<LaserJock> they don't have to
<alkisg> How does one "review the changes"?
<sbalneav> alkisg: They *don't look at* 100 gconf settings.  They look at a desktop
<LaserJock> alkisg: all I can say is wait until we get sabayon running and try it out
<sbalneav> make it look the way they want for the profile
<LaserJock> alkisg: there is a GUI window for it
<sbalneav> then apply it to whatever users/groups they want.
<LaserJock> most stuff is just manipulating the actual desktop
<Lns> I can see the benefit of using Sabayon, and also not using it - depending on your setup.
<LaserJock> Lns: right
<alkisg> sbalneav: OK, I can't find a good example, so an imaginary one: A sabayon users gets created, the admin sets the wallpaper to /home/sabayonuser/pictures/nicepicture.jpg. Then sabayon copies that setting to all users. Of course they won't see the picture.
<alkisg> What I mean is that the admin sees the GUI, but it doesn't see what happens behind the scenes
<sbalneav> alkisg: So tell me, using your task based tool:
<LaserJock> alkisg: what happens in the GUI I believe is what the user will see
<alkisg> LaserJock: not if it involves user-specific paths
<sbalneav> admin sets background to /home/tasktool/pictures/nicepicture.jpg
<sbalneav> How are the users going to see it any better?
<sbalneav> In sabayon, if admin sets to /home/shareddir/pictures/nicepicture.jpg it will work.
<Lns> I'd think Sabayon creates these profiles in a dir that are readable by the users that the profile applies to... .?
<alkisg> sbalneav: if the admin selects the picture, it will be there, because it doesn't rely on a temporary user's paths
<alkisg> Ah, sabayon has a real path for its user?
<alkisg> Not a temporary one?
<sbalneav> alkisg: what if the admin sets the picture out of *his or her own directory*?
<sbalneav> i.e. admin sees nice picture, downloads it to home dir, and sets that background with the tool
<sbalneav> it's no different.
<alkisg> sbalneav: I'm not saying it will be dummy proof...
<sbalneav> Dude.
<alkisg> I need to find a good example... :(
<sbalneav> You've come up with a completly specious example, you say "see, this won't work in sabayon", but it *wont work any better for you*
<sbalneav> Lets talk practicalities.
<sbalneav> 1) sabayon's here today, it just needs work.
<sbalneav> A few more hours of love, and we may have *something*
<sbalneav> compared to your idea, which a) isn't written b) has no delivery date.
<alkisg> You take an applet and stick it to the right of the panel. This is gui based. This doesn't do what you want, because if a user logs in on a bigger screen, he will see the applet to the middle of the panel. The gui way used coordinates, and that was the problem. A task-based tool would use the "right-align" gconf setting. Something like that, but again, I can't find a good example.
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, there's no reason you can't have both
<sbalneav> If we're going to improve jaunty, we should focus on fixing things we have, and are just needing fixes.  As opposed to spending our time trying to rewrite yet another management app from scratch
<LaserJock> alkisg: sabayon already does that with pessulus
<sbalneav> Certainly, this is open source, and you're welcome to do anything you want.  However, for jaunty, if we could get at least 1 and 2 on my list done, we'd have SOMETHING that the admins could use for management.  Which is better than we have now.
<LaserJock> I think the point here is we can talk about several different management schemes and lots of different management needs
<LaserJock> they're not all or nothing
<LaserJock> right now sabayon is a very advanced tool that's broken
<LaserJock> we need to fix it
<LaserJock> thanks to sbalneav we might get it fixed soonish
<Lns> I think maybe what alkisg is looking for is more of an equiv to M$'s "Group Policy Editor".
<LaserJock> completely orthogonal to that would be the scripting support
<alkisg> Lns, no, I haven't seen anything equievelant in either linux or windows
<Lns> alkisg: ok scratch that. ;)
<LaserJock> so we need to define what tasks/tools we want to have
<alkisg> Well, I need to see sabayon in order to decide if it covers my needs or not. So, sbalneav, what's the best way to help?
<LaserJock> what current apps work to fulfil those
<LaserJock> and which are missing
<Lns> LaserJock: i can def. help with the list, i have a largeish one from some of my techs
<alkisg> Lns, could I see that list? I was looking for such a list myself...
<sbalneav> alkisg: I'm hoping to spend more time on it tonight, so I may have a patch to try for tomorrow.
<sbalneav> testing's important.
<sbalneav> we NEED to make sure it works for jaunty.
<sbalneav> brb, workping.
<alkisg> sbalneav: if I could get a running version, I could even submit patches for some bugs, but I don't think I'm able to help until it's in a running state (I've looked at the sources a little)
<LaserJock> Lns, alkisg: let's start a wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com on spec'ing out user management needs
<alkisg> LaserJock: good idea.
<Lns> alkisg: * Shared Firefox bookmarks between groups of users * Create custom XDG menus (edubuntu-menus integration?) * Easy ACLs * are a few
<Lns> LaserJock: cool
<alkisg> Lns, wow, that's not a sabayon task! :)
<alkisg> LaserJock, also, I once told you about an ubuntu/ltsp installation manual that I wrote for the Greek ministry of education, and you told me to notify you when it was published. It's here: http://ts.sch.gr/ts/downloadsDetails.do?action=downloadsDetails&itemId=238811 - but it's temporarily offline.
<LaserJock> alkisg: ok
<LaserJock> I think we really need work on getting resources on wiki.ubuntu.com/help.ubuntu.com/edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> a number of you guys have been doing great work, but often it ends up on wikis or website scattered around
<LaserJock> we need to collect those together
<Lns> LaserJock: agreed
<LaserJock> nubae: did you see http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2009/01/24/Desktop-integration-of-the-Abiword-collaboration
<Ruben_____> somebody from spain please?
<Ahmuck> !spain
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about spain
<nothingman> hi, all
#edubuntu 2009-01-29
<alkisg> !info system-config-users
<ubottu> Package system-config-users does not exist in intrepid
<alkisg> For LaserJock (later), evaluation of system-config-user: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01544.html
<alkisg> !info libuser
<ubottu> libuser (source: libuser): user and group account administration library. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:0.56.9.dfsg.1-1ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 381 kB, installed size 2388 kB
<alkisg> nubae, system-config-users depends on this ^
<alkisg> Apparently it's a redhat lib, but it's been ported to debian also (if I got this right).
<ogra> well, system-config-users is *the* redhat tool
<ogra> (which they are about to abandon because its so awful i was told)
<alkisg> ogra: them, too?
<alkisg> So what should gnome people be using?
<ogra> well, thats what warren said
<ogra> gnome uses users-admin and sadly sticks to it afaik
<alkisg> We were talking with nubae about porting system-config-users to debian/ubuntu...
<alkisg> ogra, there was some discussion this summer by ubuntu people looking to dump users-admin and all of gnome-system-tools
<ogra> talk to pitti in #ubuntu-devel he did a review of it during hardy iirc and didnt find any positive things
<alkisg> ty
<ogra> i'm sure he is all with you that something new is needed, but s-c-u wasnt really advanced beyond users-admin ...
<ogra> (note this is all not from me, only the stuff i heard from him)
<ogra> i never tried s-c-u myself
<alkisg> ogra: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01544.html
<ogra> users-admin isnt bad, it just has this awful frontend backend split which is perl vs C ... so its very hard to patch and change
<alkisg> Were were looking for a python based tool, which would also allow scripting for admins to do stuff
<alkisg> And system-config-users looked like a good option...
<ogra> right
<alkisg> Let me talk with Pitt
<ogra> i'm sure the desktop team would be happy with an improvement, though i'm not sure they still aim for s-c-u i suspect they rather down
<ogra> *dont
<alkisg> ogra, do you know if Debian/Ubuntu has a library that we could use for developing a new user management tool? Something like libuser?
<alkisg> Cause it would be much easier if we had a solid backend...
<ogra> if you want solid, use adduser, getent and firends and write a wrapper python module
<alkisg> This would work for ldap/nis also?
<ogra> iirc they sit on top of pam/nss
<ogra> so whatever that uses
<alkisg> That would be a good solution then... thanks!
<alkisg> Ah, no, `man useradd` says " You may not add a user to a NIS or LDAP group. This must be performed on the corresponding server."
<alkisg> So this would be read-only
<alkisg> Ah, it's only for joining groups, it _can_ create ldap users but has some limitations. OK then.
<nubae> alkisg: have u visually used the fedora user management tool yet?
<alkisg> Yes, on the live cd
<nubae> and what were your thoughts?
<alkisg> It's really simple, I was looking for something more advanced
<nubae> oh... shame
<nubae> well, I guess its make something from sratch then
<alkisg> But it would be a good start (the code), as I'm not experienced in python nor gtk... :
<nubae> or... look at other distro adduser stuff
<alkisg> So I was thinking of using parts of it for the main code base, and build on top of that. In the end it wouldn't be ...recognisable, though :)
<alkisg> I hope we can persuade sbalneav to mentor us! :P :D
<T1loc> Hi
<T1loc> i can't download the edubuntu version 8.0.4 ?
<nubae> alkisg: yeah indeed, and maybe Gadi
<alkisg> nubae: do you have experience with bazaar / branches / ppa etc?
<nubae> yeah
<alkisg> That's a relief! I don't! :D
<alkisg> I can code, though, so I won't be totally useless
<nubae> I do the ltsp-docs pushes sometimes
<nubae> using bazaar is really easy
<nubae> just make sure u create your ssh keys and upload them to the server, then u can begin pulling and pushing
<nubae> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
<alkisg> Organizing the package / registering the branch is my concern, I'm sure I can use bazaar later on.
<nubae> take a look at that, I used that to get started
<nubae> as its upstream, it will just be a code repository
<nubae> the PPA is made in your personal files area
<alkisg> OK, looks easy enough. What about the needed makefiles / readme / authors and other standard files?
<nubae> sure, they all get put in the trunk
<alkisg> I mean, I've (almost) never created a Makefile myself
<nubae> dont think we'd need a makefile... that can be put straight into deb
<alkisg> Ah, fine then
<alkisg> brb
<sbalneav> Morning all
<HedgeMage> good morning
<nubae> afternoon
<Ahmuck> *yawn*
<calimer> :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiZ9-l-DxFs
<nubae> nice calimer
<calimer> :)
<calimer> that thing took forever, geez
<calimer> didn't realize how much work would be required
<Ahmuck> i don'g get sandbox
<Ahmuck> don't
<nubae> 3d game maker
<nubae> whats not to get?
<Ahmuck> do kids just place stuff?
<Ahmuck> or they need to know scripting?
<calimer> ahmuck depends what you want to do
<calimer> but a ton can be done without scripting
<calimer> check out the tutorial video
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44Ww2bg2_E
<calimer> just about all the stuff in the gameplay trailer was done in game
<calimer> only the dialog stuff really is scripting
#edubuntu 2009-01-30
<phpstar> hello everyone :)
<phpstar> i have one quick Q
<phpstar> can i use LTSP to deploy Win XP image on thin clients ??
<nubae> no
<phpstar> oh ok
<nubae> u can, however connect via rdp to a remote desktop session on a windows server
<nubae> which is kinda the same thing
<phpstar> yes but i hate viruses
<phpstar> we have 20 thin clients in christian school
<nubae> then dont use windows
<phpstar> but u said i cant use LTSP to deploy Win XP
<nubae> right, dont use windows
<nubae> deploy linux
<phpstar> actually management only like to have WIn XP so kids can play etc
<nubae> well there are many options there
<nubae> u can set up a virtual image with windows in it
<phpstar> in linux ??
<nubae> u can set up crossover
<nubae> or u can setup wine
<nubae> yes
<nubae> in linux... virtualbox would be good for example...
<phpstar> or vmware ??
<nubae> they wouldnt even know linux was running underneath
<nubae> yep, any of them
<phpstar> but
<nubae> vmware has fewer options than virtualbox
<phpstar> can vmware deploy XP image over network ??
<nubae> virtualbox is supported by Sun
<phpstar> or virtual box
<nubae> well u dont need to
<nubae> u are using ltsp to do that
<phpstar> yes
<nubae> greets RichEd
<nubae> u're up early... or late
<phpstar> right now i have to maintain every OC
<phpstar> PC
<nubae> yeah a pain... LTSP can take the stress off quickly
<phpstar> so i was looking option to deploy win xp image on all clients though network
<phpstar> but LTSP cant deploy Win XP right
<nubae> not directly, no
<nubae> u could use drbl and clonezilla to clone machines for windows
<nubae> but LTSP is really the best solution
<nubae> usually its only some programs they want for windows
<nubae> and for that u could run crossover or wine
<phpstar> thx nubae
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nothingman> g'mornin', Scott!
<nubae> afternoon folks
<Ahmuck> hi nubae
<nubae> hi Ahmuck
<nothingman> nubae: the sources.list in your fat client chroot has two hardy lines and one intrepid; could this be the problem I'm having?
<nothingman> do I need to specify the exact packages unless I'm running intrepid already?
<nubae> which hardy lines?
<nubae> there shoudl be none
<nothingman> archive and security
<nubae> when did u last download the file?
<nothingman> I'm running Hardy on my server
<nothingman> I installed edubuntu on top
<nubae> welll, like I have stated cuntless times bfore, it does not work on hardy andI have no intentino of workion tjhat
<nubae> countless
<nubae> not cuntless :-)
<Ahmuck> nubae, did you dump the hardy script?
<Ahmuck> or was in thever there?
<nubae> yes months ago
<Ahmuck> ah
<nothingman> oh, OK
<nothingman> sorry to bother you
<nothingman> I hadn't realized it had come up before
<nubae> and the current script has no mnetionof hardy
<Ahmuck> any reason u've decided not to use intrepid?
<nubae> u must be trying the old sript
<nubae> Ahmuck,I'm ONLY using ingrepid
<nothingman> I'm on my laptop which I'm using as the server because the school doesn't have much hardware to spare
<nubae> nothingman: no bother... just try and follow the instructions and install intrepid version from scratch
<nothingman> and it has nvidia graphics which I understand are a pain under Intrepid
<nothingman> I guess nvidia's binary isn't working under it yet
<nothingman> *sigh* not that I have much time for games, really; horrible excuse not to have a working server at my command
<Ahmuck> i've never heard of ingrepid
<Ahmuck> :)
<Ahmuck> nubae has lazy finger this morning
<Ahmuck> nothingman: don't use anything for graphics, start with generic, and them move up
<nubae> Ahmuck, yeah typing too fast for my own good
<nubae> 6 irc channels open
<nubae> nothingman: there is no problem with nvidia and intrepid
<nubae> I have a high end nvidia that causes me no issues at all
<nubae> And I advise against what Ahmuck is saying there (sorry bud), I would begin with the actual recommended closed source driver
<nothingman> thx for the help, both!
<Ahmuck_Jr> nubae, the actual nvidia driver causes my server to become unbootable
#edubuntu 2009-01-31
<Mamarok> highvoltage: ping
<Mamarok> or whoever else is here right now :)
<Mamarok> there is a typo in the webpage:
<Mamarok> http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<Mamarok> third bullet says "Managable" instead of "Manageable"
<sumone> hi
<sumone> anyone?
<Mamarok> sumone: I already talked to them, not necessary to flame her, behave
<sumone> ubuntu has just become the laughingstock of all linux distros!!!
<sumone> just making a point
<sumone> I just refreshed the page and still there
<Mamarok> sumone: you are definitely *not*, so behave!
<sumone> I mean how lang is gonna take to fix??
<Mamarok> sumone: it's Saturday morning in Europe and in the middle of the night in the US where most of the people here live, so it's not a matter of seconds
<sumone> should I submit a bugfix??
<Mamarok> sumone: just behave or you will be asked to leave!
<sumone> it hasn't been seconds
<sumone> Managable has been there long before I notice it
<Mamarok> sumone: nobody is here ATM, so just kepp calm and behave, else I call an Op to get you kicked
<sumone>  <!-- <span class="submitted">Tue, 2006-05-23 21:50 â silentkeystroke</span> -->
<sumone> LFMAO
<sumone> so edubuntu hires an illiterate person to market edubuntu?
<Mamarok> thanks folks for joining in :)
<sumone> I want to learn how to managable edubuntu
<Mamarok> sumone: I already told you to behave, it's not nice to make fun of other people's mistakes
<sumone> hi
<sumone> why ubuntu hires illiterate persons?
 * Hobbsee waves
<sumone> wrong chan, I meant to ask in ubuntu
<Hobbsee> ubuntu doesn't hire illiterate people, from what i've seen.
<ogra> ubuntu doesnt hire *any* people :)
<Hobbsee> that too
<sumone> wow still there
<sumone> Managable
<sumone> lol
<Mamarok> ogra: hi
<ogra> hey
<sumone> hey
<sumone> mm... who's the illiterate dev ?
<Mamarok> sumone: behave!
<Mamarok> ogra: read back, I posted the problem at 8:38 here
<ogra> sumone, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug feel free to file a bug
<sumone> wow another error!!
<ogra> feel free to file another bug then
<sumone> in the same line!!
<sumone> Managable - With teachers and school IT departments deploying and administering an increasingly large number of
<sumone> no, I am gentoo user
<ogra> so gentoo users dont file bugs ?
 * Hobbsee starts to wonder if sumone is actually here for anything productive
<ogra> thats putting gentoo in a pretty poor light
 * ogra wonders if such gentoo users that dont file bugs are to illiterate to handle bugtrackers or why they dont file bugs to improve errors some overworked volunteer made
<Hobbsee> ogra: because it's far more fun just to whine about it, apparently?
<Mamarok> ogra: just a question: you are working on touchscreen drivers?
<ogra> Mamarok, yup, though due to upstream not having done the right thing yet jaunty might stay as intrepisd was, with only some improvements
<ogra> *intrepid
<Mamarok> I've got calibrating problems with a General Touch
<ogra> do you know which driver that would usually use ?
<Mamarok> and unfortunately there is no free driver, I have one made from scratch by OpenSuSE
<Mamarok> calibrates better on OpenSuSE but not on Kubuntu
<ogra> oh, and we dont have it in ubuntu ?
<Mamarok> still very imprecise unfortunately
<ogra> inprecise > not working at all
<Mamarok> well, I didn't find time to try all drivers yet, the ELO ones are no use
<Mamarok> right
<ogra> evtouch might work but the jaunty version is broken atm
<Mamarok> the customer will ask General Touch for a driver, but theyy have New Year in China so it will take another two months before they can react
<Mamarok> well, I use Intrepid so far
<ogra> the big overall target is to make evdev handle all input devices, at some point, including touchscreens
<Mamarok> would be very nice, indeed
<Mamarok> it's a basic requirement for our project to work
<ogra> right, but evdev isnt there yet sadly ...
<Mamarok> yeah, I tried that first and it didn't work
<ogra> as a start you could attach the output of lshal to bug 317094
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 317094 in xf86-input-evtouch "evtouch meta bug to collect lshal info" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317094
<Mamarok> so there's no other choice than wait for the GT people to come back to us in March
<ogra> so we have the HW info
<Mamarok> thanks, will do ASAP
<ogra> thanks
<Mamarok> might be Monday only, as I don't have the screen here
<Mamarok> but will definitely add it to the bug
<ogra> if the device registers as some /dev/input/eventX device it might be possible to solve
<Mamarok> well, we can calibrate the upper part of the screen, then it gets fuzzy
<ogra> oh, so you already have input events, thats a good sign
<Mamarok> yeah, but I'm pretty much stuck now :(
<ogra> for the rest of the issue its probably best to file a fresh bug, tell what the dirver is you use and what exactly the device is
<ogra> feel free to subscribe me
<ogra> *driver
<Mamarok> thanks a lot, will do :)
<ogra> great, thanks as well :)
<Mamarok> :)
<Mamarok> ogra: thanks, cu another time !
<guntur_roxx> hi all
<guntur_roxx> can anyone help me?
<guntur_roxx> http://paste.ubuntu.com/112153/
<Ahmuck> guntur_roxx: have you completed the install?
<Ahmuck> guntur_roxx: are you using the ubuntu alternate cdrom?  if not, that is the cd you need to install from
<Ahmuck> guntur_roxx: http://mirror.anl.gov/pub/ubuntu-iso/CDs/8.10/ubuntu-8.10-alternate-i386.iso.torrent
<Ahmuck> guntur_roxx: what langauge?
<guntur_roxx> what do u mean alternate cdrom? what's the difference?
<guntur_roxx> i use this
<guntur_roxx> ubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso
<Ahmuck> the alternate is a text based installer.  it's usefull if your having problems installing with the desktop iso
<Ahmuck> have you installed ubuntu already and upon reboot, you get a blank screen?
<guntur_roxx> i haven't installed ubuntu
<guntur_roxx> because it always appear a blank white screen after ubuntu loaded 100%
<guntur_roxx> the things i've done.. 1. I boot from the ubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386 CD
<ogra> doesnt matter with the desktop CD :)
<ogra> you can install from the live mode
<ogra> (there is an "install to disk" item on the desktop
<ogra> )
<guntur_roxx> owh okay
<guntur_roxx> but somehow.. i've installed linux mint from the wubi, linux mint appears on the boot menu
<guntur_roxx> but after i choose it, after the "linux mint" loaded, it comes the blank screen again
<guntur_roxx> :(
<Ahmuck> guntur_roxx: u still there?
<at0m|c> my friend just comes to tell me his school's convrting to edubuntu by 2010
<at0m|c> and just now that our nat. education policy signed exclusivity cotract w MS eh
<nubae> nice
<alkisg> "exclusivity cotract w MS"? Is that legal?
<nubae> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education
<Nubae-laptop> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi Nubae-laptop
#edubuntu 2009-02-01
<Nubae-laptop> aaaaarghh... damn u xorg
<Nubae-laptop> http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education
<Nubae-laptop> check that out
<Nubae-laptop> its from someone doing a usb spin for edu materials, most kde
<LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: what part?
<Nubae-laptop> whacha mean?
<Nubae-laptop> LaserJock: just thought itd be an interesting article
<Nubae-laptop> i talked to the guy involved and he was intrigued by edubuntu which he had strangely not heard of
<LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: involved with what?
<LaserJock> Nubae-laptop: that link is just a wiki page
<Nubae-laptop> http://pastebin.be/16413
<Nubae-laptop> it was an email sent to the sugar list, talking about making a unified learning environment on a usb stick
<Nubae-laptop> something for everyone, not just kids 5-12
<Nubae-laptop> also did u get my mail about the guy that wanted to package blender?
<LaserJock> oh, the Fedora Education guys
<LaserJock> I know them a bit
<Nubae-laptop> yeah right
<LaserJock> yeah, i did get the email about blender
<LaserJock> not sure what to think about it
<Nubae-laptop> me either, but though, if he wants to do it... its one less thing to worry about
<Nubae-laptop> or one more thing, depending on how u look at it :d
<LaserJock> well yeah
<LaserJock> if you're not familiar with Ubuntu processes getting Blender into Main will not be trivial
<Nubae-laptop> yeah but we have to start somewhere
<Nubae-laptop> but I understand u dont want to take on all the workload
<Nubae-laptop> i get that
<LaserJock> well, certainly if people want to push for things that's awesome
<Nubae-laptop> hows the uni stuff going anyway?
<LaserJock> oh, decent
<LaserJock> lots to do
<Nubae-laptop> hopefully u've had some time to advance...
<LaserJock> a little
<LaserJock> had a lot of teaching to do
<LaserJock> and my parents came for a visit
<nothingman> hi, all
 * Nubae-laptop  is about to throw his wacom cintiq tablet out the window...
<Meshezabeel> heya nothingman
<guntur_roxx> hey Ahmuck .. i'm just woken up..sorry
<guntur_roxx> r u there?
<Ahmuck> yes
<guntur_roxx> how's my problem?
<guntur_roxx> i haven't try with the safe graphics mode
<guntur_roxx> coz i fell a sleep..haha
<Ahmuck> at the keyboard i bet :)
<guntur_roxx> but maybe i think it won't work too, coz the linux mint that already installed goes blank screen too
<guntur_roxx> haha nope, on my bed of course..LOL..:)
<Ahmuck> there is a xorg repair option when you boot.  when grub starts, u'll notice "esc" for grub menu, and then a repair option.  this will allow you to repair xorg
<Ahmuck> which should set it to a safe graphics mode
<guntur_roxx> owh
<guntur_roxx> so i must press esc for entering safe graphics mode?
<Ahmuck> to get to a grub menu with options
<guntur_roxx> is this about this? http://i34.tinypic.com/a1sns.jpg
<guntur_roxx> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Common%20Boot%20Options ?
<guntur_roxx> i don't really understand those..:(
<Ahmuck> yes
<guntur_roxx> should i choose the recovery mode after pressing esc?
<Ahmuck> yes, and it will boot.  it's the second option on the list
<guntur_roxx> n what is the vga=771 for?
<guntur_roxx> owh okay
<Ahmuck> eventually a menu will com up, with an option at the bottom, try to fix xorg, or xfix
<guntur_roxx> okay..
<guntur_roxx> after that?
<guntur_roxx> it starts to boot with the safe graphics mode?
<Ahmuck> it'll write a customized xorg and backup your current one.  then it'll loop you back to the menu and you can select the first option, to resume a normal boot
 * guntur_roxx is remembering...
<guntur_roxx> :)
<Ahmuck> r u on the system that is borken?
<guntur_roxx> yeah
<guntur_roxx> it's my pc
<guntur_roxx> now i'm using windows xp
<Ahmuck> ah, i thought you were working from another system
<guntur_roxx> nope
<Ahmuck> so ur using wubi?
<Ahmuck> or dual boot?
<guntur_roxx> using wubi
<guntur_roxx> for linux mint
<guntur_roxx> n after installation finished
<Ahmuck> ah, then that might be a different story.  i've never used wubi
<guntur_roxx> it does the same problem
<guntur_roxx> nope
<guntur_roxx> wait
<guntur_roxx> before that
<guntur_roxx> i do boot
<guntur_roxx> from ubuntu 8.10 cd
<guntur_roxx> then clicked "Install Ubuntu"
<guntur_roxx> but after it finished loaded
<guntur_roxx> it goes blank screen
 * Ahmuck is confused now
<guntur_roxx> that's the problem.. after that i tried to install linux mint too, i boot from cd, n there's the same problem
<Ahmuck> so first you tried wubi, then tried the live cd?
<Ahmuck> why don't we move to another channel
<Ahmuck> this channel is more for edubuntu
<guntur_roxx> argh
<Ahmuck> join #Ahmuck
<Nubae-laptop> man I wish they would stick to some conventions at least... getting my wacom board to work was like having to relearn linux...
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck_Jr> no kidding
<Nubae-laptop> man u know before intrepid... most xorg based stuff just worked... now its tweaking for everything
<Ahmuck_Jr> which is why on my production ssytem i moved back to hardy this week
<nubae> god... I reverted to my old install of ubuntu (still intrepid, but with fewer backports) and the cintiq works perfectly
<lulemurfan> hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
<Ahmuck> edubuntu 8.10 ?
<lulemurfan_> can anyone help me? - hello could anyone tell be how to connect edubuntu 5.10 to a wi-fi netork
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: I think the answer you got was that it would be easier with e recent version, like 8.04 LTS or 8.10
<lulemurfan_> my laptop won't accept it
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: the wifi drivers and network stack have seen a lot of work since 5.10
<lulemurfan_> is there anyway?
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: 5.10 is the _most_ recent version you can use?
<lulemurfan_> yes
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: what's the problem with newer version? I don't think 5.10 is supported anymore
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: 6.04 was LTS, so it's still supported for a few more month
<lulemurfan_> won't install proberly, the laptop as memory of about 128mb and hard drive space of about 3 gb
<Ahmuck> xubuntu with ltsp ...
<loic-m> lulemurfan_: hd space should be enough. For the memory, are you sure xubuntu on alternate install mode wouldn't install?
<Ahmuck> lspci to find out what wireless chip u have
<lulemurfan_> which exubuntu shall i download
<Ahmuck> iirc, xubuntu requirements went to 256 in 8.10
<loic-m> Ahmuck: do you think xubuntu 8.04 would install with 128mo ?
<Ahmuck> as i recall it installs in 128
<Ahmuck> but one should really use 8.04
<Ahmuck> for that small mem.
<Ahmuck> er, yes, what you said.  i'm misreading
<lulemurfan_> ok, i'll download that, then it should work
<Ahmuck> lulemurfan u need the alternate install
<loic-m> "You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time." that's for Xubuntu 8.04
<lulemurfan_> ok, i'll do that - thanks
<Ahmuck> Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
<loic-m> http://www.xubuntu.org/get strangely they also have the same requirements for xubuntu 8.10
<Ahmuck> lulemurfan there are other options if you want something ubuntu flavored
<Ahmuck> loic-m: yes, but i've tried both
<loic-m> lulemurfan_ it depends if you have illimited bandwith, or if dl of a big iso is painful for you
<Ahmuck> lulemurfan one option is crunchbang
<Ahmuck> it uses openbox
<Ahmuck> but has the repository strenght of ubuntu
<lulemurfan_> ok, will that be ok using wi-fi?
<Ahmuck> http://crunchbang.org/
<Ahmuck> it's all ubuntu, just with different desktops
<lulemurfan_> ok, i'll try that
<Ahmuck> http://crunchbanglinux.org/
<Ahmuck> there is the "lite" version as well
<Ahmuck> but i'd recommend either crunchbang or xubuntu.  some people like e for a desktop, and it is very fast, but it took me a while to get used to it coming from windows
<Ahmuck> the e version of ubuntu would be opengeu
<Ahmuck> http://opengeu.intilinux.com/Home.html
<Ahmuck> so now you have three choices :)
<Ahmuck> but i think you might enjoy crunchbang on that laptop.  you may still need to work at getting the things working properly.  btw, do u know what wireless chip you have?
<Ahmuck> i'm curious, why are you interetested in edubuntu?
 * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: how's school?
 * Ahmuck prods lulemurfan_
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: ok
<Ahmuck> lulemurfan_: i'm using crunchbang now
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: u get ur masters yet?
<LaserJock> I spent ~5 hrs solid teaching on Thursday
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: no, I won't have a Masters
<LaserJock> only PhD
<LaserJock> anybody want to test Jaunty out?
<Ahmuck> i'll give it a shot
<Ahmuck> in a vm
<Ahmuck> or r u wanting a full blown test?
<Ahmuck> what's different about it?
<LaserJock> just want to see if everything works
<LaserJock> one of the problems we have is that we essentially release without having tested all the apps out
<Ahmuck> yes, untested apps make me grumpy, but testing apps makes me grumpy as well
<Ahmuck> when does jaunty get released?
<Ahmuck> what's the status for management utilties in edubuntu?
<loic-m> I tested tuxtype in a vm ;)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: Jaunty will be released in April
<nubae> evening folks
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: but we need testing pretty soon, we'll start freezing
<LaserJock> loic-m: and how did that go?
<LaserJock> loic-m: did you do a .desktop fix?
<LaserJock> nubae: hola senor
 * Ahmuck get's thaw thawmoto out
<nubae> u know... I spent 6 hours trying to get my wacom cintiq pad working on intrepid yesterday... It had taken me 30 minutes under hardy
<loic-m> LaserJock https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxtype/+bug/293397
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293397 in tuxtype "no application menu entry" [Low,Confirmed]
<nubae> and all because of stupid X's autoconfiguration screwing up yet again
<loic-m> nubae did you use the wiki guide?
<nubae> ye
<nubae> yes
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I know what you mean
<Ahmuck> nubae: that's cause intrepid is now HAL rather than xorg.conf iirc
<loic-m> nubae - I've got a cintiq too, but haven't installed jaunty (except in a vm)
<nubae> the problem was that the hal .fdi file for the cintiq pad is screwed
<nubae> meaning, everything was screwed
<Ahmuck> iirc, jaunty is supposed to fall back to xorg.conf
<loic-m> nubae the .fdi doesn't allow pad anyway if you already use the pen
<nubae> thank god!
<loic-m> nubae just configure in xorg.conf
<nubae> well, I did like a millionn different things, and in the end, I ended up just doing it with specially modified wacom drivers
<nubae> I wrote it up on my site
<nubae> what should have been 5 minutes of work was 6 hours
<nubae> sad sad
<loic-m> nubae the fdi file should still be there in jaunty, but it doesn't get in the way of the xorg.conf anyway
<nubae> I deleted it just in case
<nubae> and then it all worked
<loic-m> nubae: just write the right entries in xorg.conf, and should be ok
<nubae> well the drivers from the repos were broken
<Ahmuck> heh, i tried that and am using a generic video drive, got tired of messing with it
<loic-m> nubae must say I also delete it just in case ...
<nubae> iI had to use a special PPA to install
<LaserJock> loic-m: so did tux type not need the icon in /usr/share/tuxtype/ as well?
<LaserJock> loic-m: sometimes apps use it for an in-app icon
<loic-m> nubae did the repo drivers work for you in intrepid?
<nubae> anyway, my point is about xorg and its autcrappy configuration
<nubae> I had similar problems with my graphics card
<nubae> and with my thin clients
<nubae> just ridiculous+
<loic-m> LaserJock I corrected the desktop file. I can do a grep for the string, but I didn't notice anything not in place
<nubae> whoever came up with the idea that xorg.conf was no longer needed was a total baboon
<loic-m> LaserJock the icon was in debian/ so shouldn't be needed by the program
<LaserJock> loic-m: oh
<LaserJock> loic-m: the icon was in debian/ and they installed it to /usr/share/tuxtype??
<nubae> ah.... rant over... I feel better now :-)
<loic-m> nubae i can tell you who... just look in xorg mailing list for who proposed the .fdi file and advocated it on his blog
<Ahmuck> nubae: ur not the only one that feels that way
<nubae> well essentially they tried to fix a working system
<Ahmuck> normally people don't like change, and if there is change, people expect it to be smooth
<nubae> well, there was NO benefit to this change
<nubae> non
<LaserJock> sure there has
<nubae> like?
<loic-m> LaserJock: Yes, the packaging is... really old (had trouble understanding the rules)
<LaserJock> for a lot of people X just works
<LaserJock> loic-m: yeah. Thanks for the fixing, I'll upload it soon
<loic-m> nubae there is a benefit, just that someone should have noticed it wouldn't work for wacom devices...
<nubae> LaserJock: I don't know anyonw where they havent had to tweak x a little... just take a look at the ltsp mailing list and ull see what I mean
<loic-m> LaserJock thx
<LaserJock> nubae: ok, but you're pointing to LTSP, which is very much a corner case
<nubae> no its just another example
<nubae> alongside properitary video card drivers
<LaserJock> right, but it simplified a lot of stuff
<nubae> and wacom tablets
<LaserJock> there are certainly regressions
<nubae> are all those users just no important? are we really that experminental?
<LaserJock> no, not unimportant
<Ahmuck> my wacom tablet works, but if i have to redo xorg, it's essentially dead
<LaserJock> it's just impossible to please everybody all the time
<Ahmuck> wacom tablets adn nvidia and ai cards are fairl aminstream
<nubae> Ahmuck: problem is this is a cintiq tablet, the kind that is a screen too
<nubae> thats why it totally messes with X
<Ahmuck> mine is wacom bamboo
<Ahmuck> well, it works sorta
<Ahmuck> the presure isn't right
<nubae> yeah bamboo should auto work
<Ahmuck> and the erasure doesn't work
<nubae> ah... except pressure of course
 * LaserJock hates to think what nubae thinks of Ctrl-Alt-Backspace going away :-)
<Ahmuck> it is ?
<LaserJock> yes
<loic-m> Btw, does anyone know how one goes to request short translations (like for a desktop file) in different languages?
<LaserJock> loic-m: is the package in Main
<LaserJock> ?
<loic-m> yes
<loic-m> I asked sistpoty why, he said it might be because it's used in edubuntu. I didn't check edubuntu dependencies though, but the package was like that already
<loic-m> LaserJock: were you talking about tuxtype or the question about desktop entry?
<LaserJock> loic-m: the .desktop translation issue
<loic-m> I've got .desktop files for both main (tuxtype) and universe
<loic-m> the only one for main is tuxtype. No I think of it, maybe I shouldn't have used an [fr] entry since main packages have their translations in a separate pkg
<LaserJock> yeah, we have Rosetta magic for Main packages
<loic-m> LaserJock but how do I get informed of the translations and get the .desktop file back to send upstream+Debian?
<loic-m> LaserJock: (since it was a new file I guess the [fr] lines aren't a pb. Also, french desktop entries can be... special)
<LaserJock> loic-m: once the .desktop template is in Rosetta you can download the .po files and recreate the .desktop
<loic-m> I'll have to try that. And do you know what the process is for unuverse pkg?
<LaserJock> well ... you might email ubuntu-translators
<LaserJock> you might be able to manage the translation manually
<loic-m> For translations, I hate how most applications go from the English Name_desription to the French description_Name and you always spend hours trying to find the app you're looking for :( (Kubuntu program trads are better)
<loic-m> LaserJock: ubuntu-translators is a list where people from different language are able to provide translations?
<LaserJock> loic-m: it's the general list for translators
<LaserJock> loic-m:  a "heah, can you email with your translation of ...." might work
<LaserJock> loic-m: to have LP do it you might ask launchpad-users list
<loic-m> LaserJock: thanks a lot. I've been trying to find a solution like that for a few days
<LaserJock> for an existing LP project you can upload a .pot of the .desktop and let translators do their thing, then download the .po files
<LaserJock> but I know that the LP devs want to make .desktop translation specifically easier
<loic-m> Do they also use po files for simple lines in .desktop files?
<LaserJock> po files
<LaserJock> Launchpad works in po files
<loic-m> o.v.e.r.k.i.l.l.
<LaserJock> that's part of the problem
<LaserJock> you have to generate a  .pot and then a script to go from .po to .desktop
<LaserJock> I've done it a few times, but it's not so fun to maintain
<loic-m> LaserJock: and for man pages, if I translate a man page in french or get some translations, for pkg in universe, I just put the .po files in the pkg, no?
<LaserJock> loic-m: I'm not sure
<Ahmuck> submit the .po files to the package maintainer iirc
<nubae> LaserJock: ctrl alt backspace is going away!!?
<loic-m> Ahmuck: I am the pkg mainainer
<loic-m> If there's any doc on that, I'll be happy to read it, but the MOTU doc doesn't really address translation topics
<nubae> wow, have u guys taken a look at diigo.com?
<nubae> its an awsome tool for educators, teachers and students
<loic-m> nubae it's going away in default Xorg release, so it will be the same in most distributions
<nubae> I guess X is just intent on making my life miserable... boy will it be fun in the LTSP labs without a alt, cntrl backspace
<nubae> anyway... diigo.com
<nubae> totally awsome... thats what facebook SHOULD be like
<alkisg> nubae: huh? an example, please?
<nubae> have u loooked at the site?
<alkisg> I.e. you give a url which highlights a specific paragraph into a page?
<LaserJock> loic-m: yes, generally for Universe we send people upstream
<nubae> no its kind of a bad intro page
<LaserJock> loic-m: since we don't have the lang-packs, etc.
<nubae> take a look at this: http://groups.diigo.com/browse?cg_id=16
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, there has been lots of discussion about ctrl-alt-backspace in the last few days
<nubae> one has groups and communities of people either by subject or area, but for education based stuff there is really a lot
<nubae> so u can create your own group for a particular education project there
<LaserJock> nubae: upstream xorg has turned it off by default, but apparently there is a xorg.conf switch to turn it back on
<nubae> then have people visit/bookmark/follow it
 * alkisg is watching the diigo video intro...
<nubae> welp.... then we know what I'll be doing
<nubae> I'll tweet the instructions across the net
<Ahmuck> what's the purpose of swtiching it off?
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: apparently people hit it accidentablly and lose data
<LaserJock> *accidentally
<nubae> yeah and maybe security
<nubae> another step towards making ubuntu idiot proof, and more windows like...
<nubae> or better said X in general
<Ahmuck> i don't have a real problem with it bieng windows like on the gui, but underneath is getting to be a problem
<LaserJock> well, I don't know that I'd say idiot proff necessarily
<Ahmuck> i know they were looking at LUK
<Ahmuck> which i thought was great,b ut also had concerns about
<nubae> LUK?
<LaserJock> one of the people who it happens to is a kernel hacker and former Debian Project Leader ;-)
<Ahmuck> Linux Unified Kernel
<Ahmuck> wil run windows programs natively
<nubae> we should be looking at microkernels
<Ahmuck> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Unified_Kernel
<Ahmuck> This kernel imports all the key features of the Windows operating system kernel into the Linux kernel to support both Linux and Windows applications and device drivers.
<loic-m> LaserJock: indeed, but knowing how to do that is still useful (since I can always translate at least in my language, and for "pet" packages it's interesting)
<LaserJock> loic-m: yeah
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: that sounds like a real mess
<nubae> it sounds like wine on top of a linux kernel
<nubae> customised kernel
<nubae> LaserJock: did u take a look at diigo.com?
<Ahmuck> it's not wine. but it's coming.  and rest assured if it does what it says it can, many distros will change
<Ahmuck> and if it comes down to supporting linux/windows i'll quite support for sure
<Ahmuck> it's user utopia
<nubae> they have 2 sections for education and a collection of thousands of education related groups and projects
<nubae> http://groups.diigo.com/groups/educators
<nubae> there is an example
<nubae> its the perfect place to put projects after they have been kinda accepted into brainstorm
<LaserJock> nubae: I looked at it when i was looking for a good Google Notebook type app
<LaserJock> nubae: it didn't seem very useful for me personally, but I can see how it could be good for education
<nubae> well, I see the strength in its communities
<LaserJock> yeah, I just wanted a place to put my stuff
<nubae> not the note taking stuff... not interested in that, take a look at the link I sent and ull see what I mean
<nubae> it would be a great way to recruit people for projects
<LaserJock> yeah, I've just already got information overload and am trying to lower my amount of social networking :-)
<nubae> manage them
<nubae> right, but for anyone needing contacts
<nubae> in education
<nubae> we can send them here
<nubae> there is more edu content there than I have seen anywhere else
<nubae> with real authors that one can connect with
<nubae> seems like the facebook for educational institutions
<nubae> anyway, I signed up and intend to find out some more on how to get involved with communities
<LaserJock> would be good for a resources page
<nubae> I'll create an edubuntu link there if there isnt one already
<nubae> well resources, people, communities
<nubae> it synchs with delicious too for your bookmarks
<nubae> so thats really neat
<LaserJock> mhm
<LaserJock> we just need to figure out how to deal with information overload
<nubae> well... like all these sites, its selective
<LaserJock> too many mailing lists, too many RSS feeds, too many sites, etc.
<nubae> u can make your dashboard as simple or as complex as u like
<LaserJock> but they're all really good
<nubae> I dont agree... its actually very organised when u link them all together
<nubae> for example... from my site, I syndicate through to the rest
<nubae> my tweets to twitter, to identi.ca
<LaserJock> right, but my problem is just too much coming at me
<nubae> my bookmarks to delicious
<LaserJock> it's like trying to drink from a firehose
<nubae> concentrate on the outgoing ;-)
<nubae> u are a producer
<Ahmuck> diarrhea?
<LaserJock> but I'm not just a producer
<Ahmuck> drinking is incoming
<nubae> well, when u have the time to consume?
<LaserJock> I can spend 4 hrs/day just keeping up with what Ubuntu is doing
<LaserJock> let alone upstreams, Debian, Education in general, etc.
<LaserJock> there's just so much stuff flying at me
<nubae> yeah I hear ya... so digest and let out a fine misty spray of quality bite sized info
<nubae> ;-)
<nubae> I actually enjoy the interlinkedness of it all... I have my identi.ca linked to my phone, which is linked to twitter, linked to facebook status, linked to my website, including diggs from digg
<LaserJock> having the different technologies just makes it time consuming
<nubae> no.... link em all up
<LaserJock> yeah, I don't like all that stuff
<nubae> then u just have one place to hit send and voila syndicated
<LaserJock> I want to look at certain things at certain times
<LaserJock> for instance, I use twitter and identica for different things
<nubae> well that choice is always there
<nubae> actually, so do I
<nubae> though I link them when I advertise a blog
<nubae> I love it... I think people havent seen have the potential out there with all these sites along side each other
<nubae> with xmpp support in these apps, we are going to be able to do some might fun stuff
<nubae> cross all communication streams
<nubae> in the whakiest of ways
<nubae> I get identi.ca's gtalk bot to tweet me
<LaserJock> yeah, I turned that off
<nubae> specially cause sugar bugsquad is a member there
<nubae> so I get to see what comes through
<LaserJock> I just have issues with just *too* much
<nubae> seee... thats pretty neat use
<nubae> although email works just as well :p
<LaserJock> neat, yes
<LaserJock> easy to get into trouble with, definately
<nubae> trouble?
<LaserJock> it's just so easy to get too much information
<LaserJock> and you end up spending enormous amounts of time trying to digest information
<nubae> well its about getting info in a different format, we still take in the same amount
<nubae> just instead of TV and radio
<nubae> its a tweet here and there
<at0m|c> i dont feel the urge to know when people are tired or getting a beer
<nubae> at0m|c: twitter rarely has that kind of info
<nubae> depends on your contacts i suppose, but facebook is MUCH more time wasting
<nubae> as is myspace etc
<at0m|c> i just see that at friend's places... even them using it are annoyed by it eh
<nubae> the new gen are better
<at0m|c> yea guess all their contacts feel like the need to let everyone know most trivial things
<at0m|c> s/the/they
<nubae> it all depends how u use the technology..
<nubae> like anything it can be used for good or bad
<LaserJock> nubae: if it was the same amount it wouldn't be so bad
<at0m|c> sure, i'm just not taking the risk :>
<nubae> but say u have a blog or a website, and u want to get it marketed or promoted... these services are perfect for that
<LaserJock> but I get lots and lots more informationn through these newer technologies
<at0m|c> nubae, sure, for professionals that's different
<LaserJock> microblogging alone can double the amount of time I spend dealing with things
<at0m|c> but didn't like myspace start of as a musicians site to show off new material
<nubae> come one, a microblog takes less than a minute to write
<nubae> at0m|c: yes, but it sucked
<nubae> the difference is the interconnectedness of all these new gen technologies
<nubae> myspace was never collaborative in the same way
<nubae> it was just a place for kids to experiment with filling out forms and seeing their writing online
<nubae> LaserJock: hah! finally got a picture of u....
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> nubae: uh oh
<LaserJock> nubae: I don't produce that much information
<LaserJock> nubae: it's the reading and integrating that's so time consuming
<nubae> yeah, I hear ya
<nubae> I try and avoid that
<LaserJock> so I can go through several hundred emails a day
<LaserJock> similar amounts of dents and tweets
<nubae> man... it would sure be a good time to build a nice data mining robot for people
<LaserJock> something like 50 blog posts
<nubae> yeah... have u thought about putting ads on your blog yet?
<LaserJock> and then a lot of that stuff can require resposnes
<nubae> yeah the responses are the bitch
<nubae> but still, I'd rather have a responsive blog than one no one reads
<LaserJock> nubae: I've thought about it some. My blogs are on wordpress.com right now, which doesn't let you do advertising so much
<nubae> bah... so move to habari
<nubae> far better anyway
<LaserJock> moving around isn't trivial
<nubae> the stats engine I have piwik, is the shiznit...
<nubae> sure it is
<nubae> u can export from wordpress to habari with button presses
<LaserJock> right, but I'm hosted on wordpress.com so the URL would change
<nubae> and habari is totally open and u can advertise as much as u want
<nubae> plus plugins for adsense et all already exist
<nubae> oh....
<LaserJock> I can't afford to host my own blog generally
<nubae> u have a wordpress url?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> that kinda sucks, but guess u could redirect
<LaserJock> I have a domain name, but wordpress.com handles getting dugg much much better ;-)
<nubae> I pay I think it is 60$ for a virtual dedicated server
<nubae> where I currently host 4 sites
<nubae> the ltsp bot
<LaserJock> yeah, I pay $0 and I'm not sure I can really afford to pay for hosting
<nubae> and get a decent amount of traffic... and never have a problem...
<stgraber> nubae: I pay 30$ for a dedicated server with 100Mbit/s unmettered internet :)
<nubae> well, u have collaueges and friends
<nubae> stgraber: lucky bastard :-)
<stgraber> nope, that's a regular offer from an hosting company
<nubae> stgraber: was talking to LaserJock
<nubae> mentioning he could get free hosting from u or me for example
<stgraber> hehe
<LaserJock> well, I'm already doing that now, that's where I park laserjock.us
<LaserJock> but one digg or slashdot can use the bandwidth pretty fast
<nubae> mine is 100mb unlimited too
<stgraber> I also have a spare DELL 750 (rackmount 1U) here, if someone wants to pay for the DC hosting :)
<LaserJock> I've been wanting to do dreamhost for a while
<nubae> although the other day my server ran out of ram during a digg spike
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> but just haven't worked up to forking over the money for it
<nubae> its of course nice to have your own machine, gives u piece of mind
<LaserJock> for my work on *buntu it'd be nice to have a decent host for things
<nubae> I had 2 dedicated ones before, debian boxes in Germany, but was paying $50 per month
<stgraber> nubae: http://www.kimsufi.co.uk/ though it's better from the french website as the euro prices are lower
<LaserJock> where I can run scripts, etc.
<nubae> LaserJock: really, u should be allowed to do that at edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> we're eventually supposed to be able to use people.ubuntu.com, but I'm not sure we're going to get cron access there
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, well, only a few Canonical people can get on edubuntu.org
<stgraber> nubae: http://www.isgenug.de/ 25.99 here 19.99 on the french website :)
<nubae> ironic seeing as no one actually works on the site :-)
<nubae> I got mine from webtropia.com
<LaserJock> after some machines got hacked into they tightened up a bit
<LaserJock> I think most all machines are Canonical-only
<stgraber> fun, they are doing root servers with Atom CPUs :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: yeah, what's in DC is canonical-only for shell access, code access requires security review of all code uploaded
<nubae> stgraber: those are root dedicated or virtual?
<nubae> kimsufi
<stgraber> root
<nubae> ok, thats a really good deal then
<stgraber> yeah
<nubae> might change, I'm on godaddy right now
<nubae> silly choice, but i had to pick something
<LaserJock> I'm looking for like $5-$10/month :-)
<LaserJock> can't get much that's decent
<nubae> LaserJock: I'll gladly give u space and shell access to my server if u want it without payment
<LaserJock> nubae: nah, that's ok
<nubae> stgraber: funny thing is, a while back I told them it was strange I couldnt get onto port 6667 with my shell irc client, to which they responded
<nubae> no we've blocked irc access
<nubae> so I changed the port number and voila got through
<stgraber> ovh blocks IRC as well but you can unlock it through the web UI
<LaserJock> my school blogs 6667 only
<nubae> scares me a little to think that they have such a limited sense of security
<stgraber> it's to avoid worms using IRC for communication, you have to give the IRC server IPs and they'll unlock theme
<stgraber> *them
<stgraber> or just use IRC over SSL :)
<nubae> if they knew I was not only running irc scripts, but a full time bot on there, I'm sure they'd freak
<stgraber> or even connect on 6667 but using IPV6 (OVH/kimsufi provides a /64 native IPV6) that's unfiltered
<nubae> yeah theres lots a of ways to get around
<nubae> proxies too
<nubae> like plugging gushing water holes with kleenex
<stgraber> only thing they really don't like is P2P, I used to have a torrent client to seed Ubuntu .iso but they asked me to stop it ...
<stgraber> now I just moved it to another dedicated server I manage in Germany :)
<stgraber> (seeding 2TB or so of Ubuntu .iso / month)
<nubae> yeah I ran rtorrent on my webtropia account, but the are known to turn a blind eye
<LaserJock> well, I'm not a fan of P2P so I'd be ok without it ;-)
<nubae> p2p is the only real way to us the full capacity of a 100mb line
<LaserJock> it's always so darn slow for me I just don't bother
<nubae> LaserJock: no private sites?
<LaserJock> I think I've used a torrent maybe 5 times
<nubae> what kinda stuff do u like, tv or films?
<LaserJock> I've only ever done .isos
<LaserJock> I don't watch TV or movies generally, no time
<LaserJock> it's either work or Ubuntu
<nubae> hmmm... how about knoweledge like manuals
<nubae> docus, ebooks
<nubae> self learning materials
<LaserJock> never used them
<LaserJock> ebooks that is
<LaserJock> I've just never found a use for torrents
<nubae> i tend to download tv shows since we cant get them at all in Europe
<nubae> these private sites download at the maximum bandwidth so u have a series in a couple of minutes
<nubae> stgraber: so did u say u have a host that wouldnt mind the use of rtorrent?
<stgraber> nubae: yes, klein-edv.de as long as they don't receive complaint from the publisher :)
 * LaserJock renames seeds yet again
<nubae> heh, I doubt they'd know anything is even running, other than massive traffic spikes
<nubae> rtorrent can encrypt its connections
<nubae> ooof but they're not cheap
<nubae> webtropia is cheaper
<stgraber> indeed, klein is quite expensive :) but they provide gigabit over 7-8 different providers so that's hyper-fast :)
<stgraber> and they don't really care what you're doing with your internet
<stgraber> cheap hosters usually care because they are looking for a reason to break the contract :) (they don't like people using all the bandwidth)
<nubae> heh yeah
<nubae> Laserjock on twitter:   3     Following                          34     Followers
<nubae> info hub u are
<LaserJock> nubae: not so much, I stopped following people who were on identica
<LaserJock> I was planning to use twitter for politics ;-)
<LaserJock> since most of the FLOSS people don't appreciate my politics
<nubae> lol
<nubae> yeah I heard through the grapevine u were a right wing fascist :p
<nubae> j/k....
<LaserJock> right wing, yes
<LaserJock> fascist, I don't *think* so at least ;-p
<nubae> I was just kidding
<nubae> bad European humour
<nubae> its good though, so u split your tagged blogs and send them off in 2 directions
<LaserJock> well, there's no reason to be obnoxious
<LaserJock> but I want to be able to just talk without getting a bunch of hate mail every time
<nubae> yeah was a bad thoughtless comment
<LaserJock> that wasn't meant towards you
<LaserJock> :-)
<nubae> oh
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> I was saying "there's no reason why blogging needs to be obnoxious for people, so it's good to categorize if you're going to be controversial"
<nubae> ah yes
<nubae> thing is.... open source seems to kinda go with left wing politics
<LaserJock> it does in general
<LaserJock> so I try to provide a little balance without being annoying :-)
<nubae> obama seems to be reneging on all his promises anyway
<LaserJock> of course, he's a politician
<nubae> yeah but he has such conviction with his change speeches
<LaserJock> he's already running for 2012 elections
<nubae> for once I wish they'd just do what they say they're going to instead of pretending they just found out a whole bunch of impossible obstacles
<Ahmuck> oss is going to have to close in part to be mainstream.  how else would brother be able to snoop?
<nubae> What to Britney Spears and Obama have in common?
<LaserJock> nubae: what?
<nubae> they both tweet about great changes that never happen
<nubae> :p
<nubae> i totally just made that up... just thought it was funny they both actually do use twitter
<LaserJock> yeah, lots of politicians and famous people are on twitter
<LaserJock> it's kinda odd
<nubae> sheeple
<nubae> problem with identi.ca is its name
<LaserJock> anybody got any thoughts on the long descriptions for edubuntu-desktop?
<nubae> twitter is just much more fun
<nubae> long descriptions?
<LaserJock> each package has a short and long description
<LaserJock> the current long description isn't very descriptive
<nubae> oh right
<nubae> how man chars?
<nubae> about a tweet in lenght?
<nubae> :p
<LaserJock> there's no limit really
<nubae> hmm its hard to lengthen that out
<nubae> the set of packages that makes up the educational addon applications known as edubuntu, which include applications for children from ages 4-9, teenagers frin 10-16, and young adults from 16-21
<nubae> something like that?
<LaserJock> right now it says "This package depends on all of the packages in the edubuntu desktop system"
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> no?
<LaserJock> well, that spends a lot of time talking about ages, etc.
<nubae> well thats important, to understand its split into age groups
<nubae> we could take out the ages I guess
<LaserJock> yeah, but that doesn't really do anything for edubuntu-desktop
<nubae> and add somehting more
<nubae> well its a metapackage, but we cant really say that
<LaserJock> we can point to ubuntu-edu-*
<nubae> how about what I wrote above and then inclusion of something like, it also includes the artwork, icons, and edubuntu color and style
<nubae> I think I'm too tired to be giving good answers on that right now... didnt sleep at all last night, and its now 11.54 pm here
<LaserJock> go to bed!
<nubae> waiting for my classmate to upgrade... damn thing is slow as molasses
<nubae> cant, have to finish a website too
<nubae> I snowed myself under
<nubae> also doesnt help Im an insomniac
<nubae> http://twitter.com/strjstrjkyufk  <--- didnt take them long to start spamming twitter
#edubuntu 2010-02-01
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<Ahmuck> in a edubuntu system are there levels of administration
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: With PolicyKit, there's the *potential* for levels of administration, however, most packages tend to come configured as the "superuser" gets the admin priv.
<sbalneav> However, the "standard" unix way to do this would be to have groups to control certain policy options.
<sbalneav> i.e. have an "accounts" group for creating, modding accounts, have a "printers" group for handling printing operations (clearing queue's, etc).
<sbalneav> then assign pk rights based upon membership of the group.
<Ahmuck> accounts for updating, installing sofware etc.?
<Ahmuck> linux has control policy options?
<sbalneav> Sure.  Simply depends on how "fine grained" you'd like to get.
<Ahmuck> i've got an individual i'd like to put in charge of some things, but need to keep them from "roaming"
<sbalneav> Well, you used to control these sorts of things with setgid programs.
<Ahmuck> ie through user directories, etc.
<sbalneav> Now you control them with pk
<Ahmuck> ok
<sbalneav> Well, actually, you do both, since not everything;s part of the new pk order yet :)
<Ahmuck> is there a way to block process listing?
<sbalneav> No
<Ahmuck> ya, i havn't granted system wide access yet
<sbalneav> That's pretty fundamental to Unix-like OS's
<sbalneav> there are some kinds of things you may want to do that will be either very difficult or impossible to do in a Unix-like environment.
<sbalneav> This is due to the fundamental design philosophy of Unix/Linux
<sbalneav> A good forinstance would be the running of various programs, like ps, by a user.
<sbalneav> So, you may say, "I don't want a user to be able to run ps, and see what processes are on the system".
<sbalneav> OK, fine, so you enable ACL's on the filesystem, and remove execute rights from ps on that user.
<sbalneav> Now tuxtype stops working, since it calls ps to make sure that the user isn't already running a tuxtype instance.
<sbalneav> (that was just an example, I don't know if tuxtype does that in reality).
<sbalneav> As a user, you have to expect that everything that's in /bin, or /usr/bin should be able to be run by you.
<sbalneav> Linux permissions doen't get that fine grained.
<Ahmuck> are there any good screenshot programs, similar to ksnapshot that doesn't depend upon clicking the new snapshot button?
<sbalneav> Dunno, if I need a screenshot, I always just hit printscreen.
<Ahmuck> i'm looking for specific screenshots, under a vm window without the vm border
<Ahmuck> i can do it with ksnapshot, or a script using imagmagick, however i get the same problem, i have to go in and manually crop them
<Ahmuck> i'm looking to automate the screenshots
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: is there a way to prevent screen output.  what i'd be having problem with is individual users viewing proceses from other users.
<Ahmuck> so for example, ellen's OO.o doc that is titled, "My Love Poem for David" would be presented under ps
<alkisg> !info xorg-driver-sis671
<ubottu> Package xorg-driver-sis671 does not exist in karmic
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: No, sorry, there's simply no easy way to prevent something like that in a Unix-Like environment.
<sbalneav> You can do things like use pessulus to lockdown alt-f2, so they cant run things, and disable access to (gnome|x|k)term, but then they could just use Nautilus to browse to /usr/bin, and run ps directly.
<sbalneav> Unix was originally designed for programmers to work in, and there was an orignal assumption that most things should be visible on the system.
<sbalneav> This ultimately became the posix standard
<sbalneav> and Linux is (or tries to be :) ) posix compliant.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: As for the screenshots, can gimp do it for you?  It can acquire screenshots without border decorations.
<sbalneav> There is a bug that's been filed against nautilus:
<sbalneav> Hmmm, can't find it off the top of my head, but it was a patch for lockdown, "no execure", so that it wouldn't execute programs when launched from Nautilus.  Thhis would help somewhat.
<Lns> Ahmuck: also, you can use .hidden files to hide directories/files from viewing in nautilus (won't affect openoffice save/open dialogs and friends though).. have you seen the ubuntu wiki page on locking the system down?
<Lns> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/HideFilesystemInNautilus
<sbalneav> Lns: HUH!
<sbalneav> I didn't even know nautilus did that
<joerg_> hey
<sbalneav> joerg_: Hey there!
<sbalneav> looked at your spec
<joerg_> sbalneav, did u find some time look at the specs? :)
<sbalneav> looks fantastic!
<joerg_> ah cool
<joerg_> sbalneav, when did u look at it?
<sbalneav> all kinds of good detail in there
<sbalneav> last friday
<joerg_> changed a lot of things recently
<joerg_> w8
<sbalneav> oh, cool.
<joerg_> sbalneav, http://www.labpixies.com/campaigns/calories/calories.xml
<joerg_> oh, sorry
<joerg_> that's my test opensocial app :D
<joerg_> http://www.myserv-project.org/specs:core
<sbalneav> Excellent, thanks!
<joerg_> sbalneav, should I start recruiting people? :D
<joerg_> sbalneav, I am just working on the opensocial stuff
<joerg_> sbalneav, which is not that easy....there's just one very poor python implementation for the google app engine
<sbalneav> I'd certainly be more than willing to help out.
<sbalneav> Lns: yeah, that's a good tip.  Unfortunately, the wily "hacker" can still do a "control-L/usr/bin", so it definitely helps, but doesn't eliminate the problems.
<Ahmuck> it's not hackers i'm worried about, rather, nosey teenagers
<Ahmuck> though i aught to be glad their learning
<sbalneav> One supposes we could create a "hidden" package that supplies a set of ".hidden" files for a bunch of directories.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: heh, that's why "hackers" was in quotes.
<Lns> sbalneav: for sure. it's just 'out of sight, out of mind' type stuff =)
<sbalneav> Hmm, so if I do a "cd /usr/bin ; ls > .hidden" that makes /usr/bin disappear.
<sbalneav> Sooooooooo.
<sbalneav> by extention....
<Lns> haha!
<sbalneav> We could write a relatively short shell script that could be plunked in /etc/cron.hourly...
<Lns> well
<Lns> in my experience, if you lock down the root dir, there's not a lot that can slip by..
<sbalneav> that would go around to all the "bad" areas, like /bin, /usr/bin, /sbin, etc.
<sbalneav> and create a ".hidden" file from all the contents.
<sbalneav> 30, 40 lines of shell at most.
<sbalneav> I'll hack something together tonight, stuff it in my ppa.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: So if you:
<sbalneav> 1) removed Gnome-Terminal from the menu
<sbalneav> 2) Locked out alt-f2 "run" dialogue
<sbalneav> 3) run the little "hide things" script
<Lns> Ahmuck: sbalneav also: check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeOptimize  -- I've put some things in there a while back about lockdown that might help
<sbalneav> You'll make it difficult enough to do a "ps" looking for who little suzie's writing love notes too as to make it "almost impossible"
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> Lns: You don't get enough credit for all the work you've done/do on the ltsp bits of the wiki.
<Lns> lol
<Lns> sbalneav: i did that a long time ago, it was kind of a stint that i got all that stuff up there. i wish i kept up on it more
<Lns> but thank you =)
<sbalneav> Well, it's important.
<Lns> *sniff* i'm so glad you understand me sbalneav =)
<Lns> actually, i'm planning on making a string of youtube video tutorials with edubuntu, starting with how to install it
<Lns> but last week i was having issues with virtualbox so i couldn't set up my recording environment right
 * Lns is installing edubuntu 9.10 amd64 for the first time =)
<Ahmuck> heh, Lns, that's what were doing here in the last week
<Ahmuck> henced i was asking about screenshots
<Lns> =)
<Lns> hrm, "installing system" information should reflect edubuntu, not ubuntu
<Lns> i could probably come up with some wordage
<Lns> if someone knows how to change it in the install dvd
<Lns> wow, those screen wipes during the installation really get your attention! haha
<Lns> hmm, it seems to me that the iconset for Gnome "Places" menu are pretty inconsistent with "Applications" and other menus
<Lns> a.k.a. nautilus iconset i guess
<mhall119> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> hey, I'm finally getting my Qimo packages started
<mhall119> I was wondering what format they need to be in to get into Universe
<mhall119> source packages, package branches?
<mhall119> just something in my PPA?
<mhall119> I've got a group for qimo-developers in LP, I was going to use that PPA for the packages as they become available
<mhall119> I finally got the last of my xfce issues resolved
<sbalneav> mhall119: Getting them into your ppa's a great first start.  Then someone like stgraber or highvoltage can look at 'em and upload to universe.
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> do I need to make separate PPA's for packages targetting lucid and karmic?
<sbalneav> No, the ppa will automatically handle multiple distros.
<highvoltage> mhall119: source packages
<highvoltage> mhall119: you can use your current ppa
<mhall119> ok, cool
<mhall119> I'll let you know when they're up and relatively stable
<highvoltage> mhall119: great!
<mhall119> if I get XSplash and GDM themes up now, can I update them with my new artwork when it comes in?
<highvoltage> yes you can indeed
<mhall119> excellent
<mhall119> I want to get caught before Alpha 3
<highvoltage> you'll just have to release a new version of the package
<mhall119> how do you manage the edubuntu cd, do you upgrade the packages in place, or get a new base image and re-apply your packages each time?
<highvoltage> mhall119: built from scratch daily
<highvoltage> (as in debootstrap and then meta-packages are installed)
<mhall119> debootstrap?
 * mhall119 reads the man page
#edubuntu 2010-02-02
<sbalneav> Per this morning's discussions, re: hiding things in Nautilus...
<sbalneav> hide-tool's in my ppa
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: take note.
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Just sent an email off regarding hide-tool.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: cool
<sbalneav> Hopefully someone will find it useful.
<sbalneav> We're thinking about moving to Evolution here at Legal Aid as our mail client
<sbalneav> so I'm trying to learn to use it effectively.
<sbalneav> Normally, I use mutt, so it's a big change.
<mhall119|work> I use Evolution primarily, it's good to me
<sbalneav> I'm trying, but failing, to get evoldap to pre-seed account stuff for anything but mail
<sbalneav> calendar and address book preseeds don't seem to work :(
<Lns> Hey, have any of you seen this? http://www.pencil-animation.org/ -- might be something to look into including in Edubuntu!
<sbalneav> Lns: hey, did you have a quick look at hide-tool? :)
<Lns> sbalneav: I haven't looked at it yet, no :( i did see your post though =)
<Lns> you got a build for hardy? ;)
<Lns> i can check it out right now
<Lns> don't see it in your ppa.. hehe
<sbalneav> Well, the package is just a shell script and a manual
<sbalneav> grab the lucid one and do a dpkg -i
<Lns> mmk
<Lns> is this something that might be good to integrate into pessulus?
<Lns> wow you can do user-based hiding?
<Lns> oh nm, you're talking about root dir not user
<Lns> you have a dir for hide-tool/ under /usr/bin..not in my path :/ hehe
<Lns> and if != uid=0 it should error instead of lots of "perm denied" messgaes =)
<Lns> (just taking notes)
<Lns> sbalneav: is your "loop through the hide dirs" a recursive traversal to create .hidden files in each dir you specify?  i was able to go to /dev and see all the stuff in there after running hide-tool
<Lns> even though /dev was hidden
<Lns> looks nice!
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: noted.  saw your e-mail
<Lns> who was it that said something about keeping track of the .hidden files after applying.. that is probably needed as well
<Ahmuck> Lns: plastic animation paper
<Ahmuck> PAP
<Lns> Ahmuck: ?
<Ahmuck> http://plasticanimationpaper.dk/
<Ahmuck> another 2d animation tool
<Ahmuck> that works well
<Lns> wow neat :)
<Lns> hmm, not in the repos (just like pencil) :(
<Lns> at least for my old dinosaur
<Ahmuck> i've used PAP and liked it
<Lns> I guess some things you just *have* to compile =)
<Ahmuck> will try pencil
<Ahmuck> heh
<Lns> we should look into that to include in edubuntu
<Ahmuck> i'm not sure PAP is open source
<Lns> see, that could be something we really need to get edubuntu going...stuff you can't find in ubuntu
<Lns> oh
<Ahmuck> :)
<Ahmuck> sorry.
<Ahmuck> i use a mix
<Ahmuck> does this make me an enemy of edubuntu ?
<Lns> lol
<Lns> it shouldn't... education != open source. educators use whatever tool is best for the job
<alkisg> (or available, or affordable :))
<Ahmuck> k, no pressure sensitivy on tablet.  simple to use.  not sure if it has a color wheel.
<Ahmuck> would work under edubuntu, but not ltsp.  the lag appears to be to great for our systems
<Lns> alkisg: true. we need to make the tools available and easy to use =) we already have affordable down...except for the actual work to install/maintain it
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: heh
<Ahmuck> paintbrush acts like an airbrush
<Ahmuck> colors on pencil don't switch
<Ahmuck> ah! found color wheel
<Ahmuck> it's a good start though
<Ahmuck> for 2d animation
#edubuntu 2010-02-03
<Ahmuck-Jr> how are html5 codecs unfree?
<ogra> html5 codecs ?
<ogra> the codecs used in the <video> tag are unfree ...
<Lns> there is no standard html5 codec.. it's undefined.
<Lns> because of the ogg/h.264 headbutting
<Lns> diversity is always good so i'm not really worried..at least it's a step in the right direction
<dtaddeo> can any one help me with a youtube problem?
<dtaddeo> please?
<dtaddeo> anyone in here?
<dtaddeo> any one?
<mhall119> 5 whole minutes, I'm amazed at the patience
<Ahmuck> ogg is unfree?  in reguards to html5 codecs
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: ogg and theora are free.
<sbalneav> And are (as far as anyone knows) patent unencumbered
<Ahmuck> i'm going to love the day when ms or some other big company hits a patent wall
<sbalneav> They do all the time.
<Ahmuck> it'll serve em right for getting us into the mess
<sbalneav> They just pay a lot of money to get out of them in licensing deals
<sbalneav> and pass the cost on to us :)
<Ahmuck> a patent wall is one where they can't buy thier way out
<sbalneav> You can *always* buy your way out of a patent mess.
<sbalneav> Usually, by finding something of yours that *they're* infringing on :)
<sbalneav> And since software patents are in such a mess, no matter what patent you hold, you can probably find some part of it that was patented before.
<sbalneav> It's a huge mess :(
<Ahmuck> running a vm inside of a ltsp session causes it to slow down :/
<sbalneav> Not surprising.
<sbalneav> You're emulating X calls within X calls
<sbalneav> then shipping all that over the network.
<Ahmuck> well, i forgot i was in a ltsp session
<Ahmuck> however my client is a 2ghz, 2gb machine
<Ahmuck> with plenty of vid mem
<sbalneav> Doesn't matter.  If the vm's not making efficient use of X calls, it's going to be sending a LOT of data down the network.
<sbalneav> Same thing with, say, Flash vs. gstreamer
 * Ahmuck just dumped firefox as the browser on ltsp
<sbalneav> In exchange for?
<Ahmuck> opera
<sbalneav> Works better?
<Ahmuck> it's like night and day
<sbalneav> The app makes all the difference.
<sbalneav> Firefox is being written *completely* from the point of view of a single user on a single box, and quite frankly, their market these days is Windows, no Linux.
<sbalneav> You might want to look at giving Epiphany a try too.
<sbalneav> It's the gnome browser.
<sbalneav> Uses WebKit on the back end, I beleive.
<sbalneav> The one *nice* thing about epiphany is, it speaks gconf.
<sbalneav> So you can use lockdown on it for setting things like mandatory homepage, etc.
<sbalneav> and works well with sabayon.
<Ahmuck> http://inverse.ca/debian/
<Ahmuck> trying to add that to software sources, but it's not working
<sbalneav> what's the line you're adding?
<sbalneav> You doing this on Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> Because all they have are lenny and squeeze packages.
<sbalneav> http://www.inverse.ca/debian/conf/distributions
<Ahmuck> yep
<sbalneav> Yep, what?  You're doing this on debian?
<Ahmuck> oh, no, on ubuntu
<sbalneav> ok, then it won't work
<Ahmuck> hrm, sogo says it will
<sbalneav> since all they're offering is debian lenny & squeeze packages.
<sbalneav> They may possibly work if you download the deb's manually and do a dpkg -i
<alkisg> ÎÎ±Î»Î·Î¼Î­ÏÎ±
<joerg> hi
<alkisg> Hello
<joerg> a bit quiet here today :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
 * sbalneav anxiously awaits someone to have an aneurism over his epiphany suggestion :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: bah, it's for 12.04, so I won't complain "yet" ;)
<alincoln> hah
<sbalneav> I think we should ship both pre-installed, at the least.
<sbalneav> I've switched over to it at home, anyway.
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<mhall119|work> if epiphany works better over LTSP, I see no reason to not include it
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: sees sbalneav has has an epiphany and agrees
<gavinl_> Hi, I just installed edUbuntu in vmware, I want to install vmware tools, but it says "VMware Tools Installation cannot be started manually while Easy Install is in progress." How can I solve this issue?
<gavinl_> Hi, is there anyone out there? THis is my first time use IRC channel, please reply if anyone see my message.
<sbalneav> gavinl_: Yep, we see you
<gavinl_> Thank you
<sbalneav> But I'm not familiar with vmware :)
<sbalneav> How are you trying to install the vmware tools?
<gavinl_> But what is the easy install? It is different than all other linux dist
<gavinl_> TO install vmtools, just select VM and click install vmware tools in the menu of vmware workstation
<sbalneav> Yeah, there's no vmware-tools package under Edubuntu, so I'd ask vmware.
<gavinl_> It has vmware tools with Ubuntu, I just have to kill that "Easy Install"
<sbalneav> But it's the vmware tools installation that's giving you that message, right?
<sbalneav> So who knows what it's looking for.
<gavinl_> Yes. but why "easy install" is still active after I finished install edUbuntu?
<sbalneav> Don't know.  Is "Easy Install" a vmware thing?
<sbalneav> As I said, I'm not familiar with vmware.
<gavinl_> "Easy install" is edUbuntu thing, not vmware.
<sbalneav> Which version of edubuntu are you loading?
<gavinl_> the lastest, and I just updated 1 last night
<sbalneav> How are you installing it, via the desktop?  Or with the text based installer?
<alkisg> gavinl_: easy install seems to be a vmware thing: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/archive/2009/01/19/VMWare-Workstation_2700_s-Easy-Install.aspx
<alkisg> And the message is shown to you by vmware, not by edubuntu...
<sbalneav> Yeah, I was wondering.  I didn't think we had an "easy install" option.
<sbalneav> But I always use the text installer.
<gavinl_> Hi,  no matter where is the "easy install", I just wondering why I don't have problem to install vmware tools in Fedora, CentOS, but just have issue here?
<sbalneav> Have you restarted the vm after the install?
<gavinl_> yes, a couple of time
<alkisg> I don't know how easy install works, but it might be possible that the vmware code is not suitable for the most recent edubuntu version
<alkisg> You'd better ask at a vmware irc/forum for details, but why don't you just disable it?
<alkisg> With easy install disabled, I imagine that it will allow you to insert the tools cd..
<gavinl_> good idea! how can I disable it?
<alkisg> From the vmware menus, I imagine...
<sbalneav> gavinl_: We're not sure.  As we said, we don't know vmware :)
<sbalneav> You're not having an edubuntu problem, you're having a vmware problem
<gavinl_> it might be a vmware problem, Thans guys!
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> I've got to get some hard numbers on memory usage between FF and Epiphany.
<ogra> sbalneav, why not chromium ?
<sbalneav> chrome doesn't interact with gconf
<ogra> (note that FF 3.6 has a very low memory footprint btw)
<sbalneav> ephy's based on webkit like chrome, but it's got lockdown
<ogra> but its not really well maintained
<sbalneav> I dunno, I'm in the channel right now, seems pretty active.
<ogra> well, thats what i'm told by our browser team
<ogra> its surely better than midori or some other not so mainstream browser
<Ahmuck> i see yahoo is now on the opera page
<Ahmuck> any chance yahoo is doing what sun was doing, buying up companies and then selling to bigger vendors?
<Ahmuck> new wave of defeating FOSS ?
<ogra> ask yahoo ?
<Ahmuck> hrm, nm.  it's just a search option on the page
<mhall119|work> who is yahoo buying up now?
<Ahmuck> nobody
<Ahmuck> it was my error
<Ahmuck> using a thin client to do some vm work and building in the vm.  however there must be a slight delay and as a result i'm getting sssssssssssssssssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudddddddddddddddoooooooooo
<Ahmuck> hrm, nm, i'll move this to ltsp
<stgraber> meeting in 10 minutes
<alkisg> Whoops
<sbalneav> Work's going to intrude today.
<sbalneav> My regrets.
<stgraber> meeting should be quite short, I don't see highvoltage around and not much changed on my hand, I'm naggin a lot of people at the moment but without much success yet
<stgraber> oh surprise, mgariepy is there ;)
<mgariepy> big surprise since you just told me hehe ;P
<stgraber> sbalneav: we are in -meeting if you find the time
<stgraber> ogra: hey, I just noticed you are part of ubuntu-cdimage ;) Anything you can do to help us with bug 509970 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 509970 in ubuntu-cdimage "Make Edubuntu DVD Live only + additional packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509970
<Ahmuck> whats the status on LDAP?  is it openLDAP.  is there an edubuntu standard that might fall in line with other groupware programs?
<Lns> Ahmuck: the status i think is still in planning a structure, if that.. sbalneav was looking into it
<Ahmuck> i understand there is no standard in LDAP
<Ahmuck> is openLDAP standard across software that would use it?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: LDAP itself is pretty standard, i.e. any LDAP server *should* be able to replace any other one.
<sbalneav> What *isn't* standard is how to lay out your database
<sbalneav> LDAP organizes things into ou's, or Organizational Units
<sbalneav> For instance.  Our DN's at work look like (for users)
<Ahmuck> i'm looking at sogo for groupware for calandering
<sbalneav> uid=userid,ou=users,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
<Ahmuck> and it uses openldap
<sbalneav> with groups looking like:
<sbalneav> gid=group,ou=groups,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
<sbalneav> However, there's nothing stopping you from using the "o" and organizing your people under "People" so...
<sbalneav> uid=userid,ou=People,o=Legal Aid Manitoba
<sbalneav> A school may want to lay out their users into grades, so...
<Ahmuck> heh
<sbalneav> uid=foo,ou=Grade 1,...
<sbalneav> uid=foo,ou=Grade 2,...
<Ahmuck> i know a number of projects out there using ldap, does moodle?
<sbalneav> Not sure, I think moodle uses postgresql on the backend
<Ahmuck> so does sogo
<sbalneav> but it's pretty easy to link postgres to ldap
<Ahmuck> and i'm somewhat anti-postgresql
<sbalneav> Really?
<Ahmuck> i find mysql easier to use and setup
<sbalneav> We use it here at Legal Aid and love the living daylights out of it.
<sbalneav> We've got about 400 gigs of data in it.
<Ahmuck> i gtg 4 now.  need to get some work completed b4 the incoming snow storm
<Lns> sbalneav: is it feasible to create multiple "schemas" (is that the right word?) for different types of schools/preferences and allow someone to choose which one they'd like to use?
<sbalneav> Well, sure
<sbalneav> but then we have to support all the different configurations in:
<sbalneav> pam
<sbalneav> nsswitch
<sbalneav> sabayon
<Lns> ah that's right
<sbalneav> evoldap
<sbalneav> etc etc etc
<sbalneav> that's always the problem.
<Lns> do ^^^ have their own schemas already we might just pull from?
<Lns> i.e. is there a standard in place?
<sbalneav> Well, here's how debian-edu does it, and I think it's the best approach
<sbalneav> They ship a schema
<sbalneav> all set up and ready to rock
<sbalneav> everything defaulting to that schema, pre-set up
<sbalneav> Everything works out-of-the-box
<sbalneav> Someone wanders in and says "Thats nice, but I want to use blah-de-blah"
<sbalneav> They say "Fantastic, but you're on your own.  You need to reconfigure all the bits appropriately.  We support the default schema"
<sbalneav> So, everything's ldap enabled, and ready to rock, but they don't try to support people who do the old "Yeah but I want to run it THIS way"
<Lns> love that idea :)
<sbalneav> My proposal is:
<sbalneav> 1) Steal^H^H^H^H^HExpropriate as much as we can from debian-edu
<sbalneav> 2) Add in stuff they don't have, and give that back to them
<sbalneav> 3) ????
<sbalneav> 4) PROFIT!
<Lns> haha =)
 * Lns nods in agreement
<Lns> no sense in recreating the wheel
<sbalneav> Right.
<Lns> especially if "upstream" ;) has something already going
<sbalneav> Now, they're on "old" openLdap, the pre-cf= ldap that's in Ubuntu now
<sbalneav> since debian-edu's running on a much older version of debian atm
<Lns> pre-cf= ?
<sbalneav> however, they do stuff with "preseeding" the initial LDAP layout, and pam, etc configs that we can snag
<sbalneav> yeah, you don't configure schemas and such in openldap anymore in the /etc/ldap/slapd.conf file anymore
<sbalneav> there's a special config record that you do it in.
<sbalneav> it's just implementation details
<sbalneav> their pre-seed idea will still work for us.
<Lns> oh gotcha
<sbalneav> Anyone know where the next ubu conf's gonna be at?
<sbalneav> here in NA?
<sbalneav> or europe somewhere?
<sbalneav> stgraber: you know?
 * highvoltage missed the meeting due to being in another one
<stgraber> sbalneav: europe but we don't know were yet
<sbalneav> ah, nuts
<sbalneav> stgraber: you and hv gonna be there?
<sbalneav> So, here'd be my suggestions:
<sbalneav> 1) Decide on a config.  ou=users/students/whathaveyou
<sbalneav> 2) get configs for pam, nss, evoldap, sabayon, possible ldap backend connector for homepage, etc.
<sbalneav> 3) write our simple useradd program that can handle any backends/plugins
<sbalneav> 4) Use the ldaptools backends for adduing users to ldap
<sbalneav> 5) Snag debian-edu's preseeding magic to "make it all happen"
<sbalneav> 6) create an "edubuntu-ldap-config" package that does all the magic
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> *none* of that's very hard.  And certainly ALL of that's doable before 12.04
<sbalneav> So, we can go into 12.04 with a system that's ldap-enabled out-of-the-box, with lockdown for web,mail, desktop, etc.
<stgraber> sbalneav: I'll be there and we'll try to be as many as possible from RL at UDS, depending on how many get invited and where it's
<sbalneav> stgraber: Now that Canonical's cut us free, any sponsorships available for Edubuntu people, or has that dried up, do you think?
<stgraber> sbalneav: I don't think there's any sponsorship place for Edubuntu people, I usually get invited by QA/server, the best hope is the Community team
<sbalneav> It would probably make sense for me to be there, but I don't think I can afford it this year.  I'm already out-of-pocket for both Brazil and Maine :(
<sbalneav> I'll ping Jorge, see what he thinks.
<sbalneav> bbiab
<stgraber> sbalneav: that's a good plan jorge being one of the UDS organizers ;)
<joerg> hi folks :)
#edubuntu 2010-02-04
<sbalneav> Evening all
<mgariepy> good evening
<sbalneav> hey mgariepy
 * sbalneav falls off chair
<sbalneav> Just compiled epiphany 2.29.6
<sbalneav> "HTML5Tube:
<sbalneav> "View Youtube using WebKit's HTML5 Media Player"
<sbalneav> Hmmm. Epiphany actions looks coool.
<mgariepy> sbalneav, did you made a package ?
<sbalneav> No, I'm having trouble:
<sbalneav> 20:44 < sbalneav> Hmmm, so I'm trying to package 2.29.6, and I'm getting:
<sbalneav> 20:44 < sbalneav> make[3]: Entering directory `/home/sbalneav/Source/git/epiphany/doc/reference'
<sbalneav> 20:44 < sbalneav> *** gtk-doc must be installed and enabled in order to make dist
<sbalneav> 20:45 < sbalneav> However:
<sbalneav> 20:45 < sbalneav> ii  gtk-doc-tools                        1.11-4                                         the GTK+ documentation tools
<sbalneav> 20:45 < sbalneav> ii  libgtk2.0-doc                        2.19.4-1ubuntu2                                Documentation for the GTK+ graphical user interface library
<sbalneav> 20:45 < sbalneav> Not sure what it's looking for.
<sbalneav> I've asked in #epiphany, but mayhaps nobody's there at the moment.
<mgariepy> ok
<sbalneav> I'm not sure what it's looking for.
<sbalneav> I need that to do a make distcheck in the git checkout so's I can get a tarball to make a package from.
<mgariepy> well good night. cya tomorrow i guess
<sbalneav> Cheers!
<mgariepy> hehe ;)
<mgariepy> good luck with epiphany ;)
<mgariepy> https://launchpad.net/~menueditor-devel/+archive/ppa
<mgariepy> if you want to take a look. to the menueditor.
<mgariepy> it's installing fine on karmic.
<mgariepy> cya
<sbalneav> Oooooh, another win out of the box for epiphany
<sbalneav> *by default*, youtube.com DOESN'T launch flash.  It automatically embeds gstreamer
<sbalneav> \o/
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Ugh!  In launchpad, we've got "edubuntu-addon-cd" as a project, but not "edubuntu"
<mhall119|work> time to rememdy that
<trumpetmic> hi
<trumpetmic> is this is a good system to use for my 5yr old's laptop?
<trumpetmic> ...which is 5 years old
<alkisg> edubuntu? How much RAM does the laptop have?
<trumpetmic> 256MB
<sbalneav> Should be enough.
<sbalneav> Might swap a bit, but should be serviceable.
<trumpetmic> righth on
<trumpetmic> it has xp at the moment and is slow to the point of being unusable
<trumpetmic> how about for the kids
<trumpetmic> is it good for 5yr olds?
<trumpetmic> or is there another dist you'd recommend?
<trumpetmic> like Qimo?
<sbalneav> Well, since you're in #edubuntu, we'd tend to recommend that :)
 * alkisg 4 y.o. kid is using edubuntu just fine...
<sbalneav> However, quimo, debian-edu, etc, are all options out there.
<mhall119|work> huh what?
<mhall119|work> oh, hey trumpetmic
<sbalneav> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/edubuntu-addon-cd/+spec/edubuntu-epiphany-default-browser
<sbalneav> have at thee
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: no "edubuntu" project?
<mhall119|work> trumpetmic: Qimo will run well on 256MB of memory
<mhall119|work> but it's still based on 8.10
<mhall119|work> there are highly experimental packages for 9.04
<mhall119|work> nothing for 9.10
<mhall119|work> but Qimo 2.0 will be based on Ubuntu 10.04, and I'll hopefully have packages available for it by the end of this month
 * mhall119|work needs a vacation so he can get work done
<sbalneav> No, I'll get hv or stgraber to create one.
<joerg> hey
<joerg> sbalneav, I guess you have no idea about the CAS protocol?
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server karmic
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.90-0ubuntu3 (karmic), package size 103 kB, installed size 1204 kB
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.90-0ubuntu3 (karmic), package size 103 kB, installed size 1204 kB
<highvoltage> alkis is alive!
<alkisg_live> heh :P
<alkisg_live> braaaiiiiinnsssss.... nah, I'm not the zombie type
 * alkisg_live was fighting for a lot of hours with today's updates, to find what was causing his pc to crash :(
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Hey, could you ditch the edubuntu-addon-cd project, and replace it with just an "edubuntu" project?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: good idea, I'll have to ping some LP admins but will do so
<joerg> https://demo.myserv-project.org:444/static/castest.php?login
<joerg> can anybody try that for me?
<joerg> it should redirect to a cas server....
#edubuntu 2010-02-05
<sbalneav> Morning all
<damianos_> hello
<damianos_> I saw that italc is listed as an included package in the latest edubuntu 9.10 dvd. Is the italc client automatically added to the thin client image too?
<Damianos> Hi everyone
<Damianos> I have just a general question... I see italc is an included package in the DVD. Is the client auto installed on the thin client image when installing edubuntu with ltsp?
<sbalneav> Damianos: Not sure, off the top of my head.
<Damianos> I guess I will just have to install and see. Is italc recommended for school lab management?
<sbalneav> Damianos: Yes, it's the default lab management app.
<Damianos> Great! Thank you. I'm looking forward to the installation
<sbalneav> Holey mackeral
<sbalneav> So, as a *completely* arbitrary measurement:
<sbalneav> Boot thin client
<sbalneav> log in
<sbalneav> let settle for 2 minutes
<sbalneav> check free ram on thin client
<sbalneav> launch firefox
<sbalneav> browse to planet.gnome.org
<sbalneav> check free ram again
<sbalneav> 843860 - 830412 = 13448 or 13 megs ram used on thin client with firefox
<sbalneav> do same procedure, but launch epiphany:
<sbalneav> 843888 - 843724 = 164 K of ram.
<sbalneav> I suspect there'll be some convergence with sustained browsing, but holey mackeral.
<alkisg> I think firefox, Qt and openoffice use the local ram for pixmaps... gtk apps don't
<alkisg> (neither webkit if I remember well)
<alkisg> I had a problem with my nvidia drivers last week, every time I suspended/resumed my laptop, all pixmaps were corrupted
<alkisg> So I could visually see which program used pixmaps for which areas of its window :)
<alkisg> I wonder if there's an X setting to disable pixmaps completely
<alkisg> Ah, I even got a screenshot of corrupted cached pixmaps: http://imagebin.org/83555
<sbalneav> Well, all pixmap cacheing is is just asking the X server to allocate you some ram, then you use the ram to save your pixmaps
<sbalneav> there's no "cache pixmap" primitive in X
<sbalneav> It'd be like asking to turn off malloc() :)
<sbalneav> One supposes you could do it, but your system wouldn't boot very fast :)
<sbalneav> i.e. not at all :)
<sbalneav> Actually, what you're doing is simply allocating more pixmaps that you're actually displaying within the graphcal viewport
<sbalneav> Anyone know of a place where I can get the H264 codec?
<sbalneav> Wonder if that place that does professional gstreamer development has 'em
<sbalneav> fluendo
<sbalneav> http://www.fluendo.com/shop/product/complete-set-of-playback-plugins/
<sbalneav> ah, yeah
<sbalneav> they've got an h.264 codec
#edubuntu 2010-02-06
<mhall119> good morning
<alkisg> Good morning
<mhall119> so it looks like there are lots of good games available in Lucid
<mhall119> just found gnomekiss
<mhall119> holy crap, paper dolls with nipples is _NOT_ child appropriate
<Ahmuck> is there a way to build a custom script so that it removes/installs programs upon installation before a full first time boot?
<bdoin> it is each to make a script that does 'apt-get install' and 'apt-get remove'. To make it run once there are probably several options
<bdoin>  /it is each/ it is easy/
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Yeah, just a shell script
<sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
<sbalneav> apt-get purge package package package
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: then just call it at the tail end of a preseeding
<sbalneav> http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/en.i386/apb.html
<XuzhouJim> Edubuntu terminal server didn't work out of the box as planned!! so now I need to trouble shoot but can't seem to find a good starting point. Maybe the problem was a amd64 image was created but dhcp is pointing to i386. BUT changed dhcp.conf to point to the amd64.img. still no go.
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Tm_T> that
<sbalneav> That what? :)
<highvoltage> that! "evening"!
#edubuntu 2010-02-07
<sbalneav> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SimpleLDAPSetup
<sbalneav> Hopefully that'll help some people.
<airjump> hello
<mhall119> 2 minutes, wow
<joerg> hi
<joerg> is this a chat or a graveyard? :o)
<Ahmuck-Jr> superbowl sunday
<joerg> Ahmuck-Jr, don't u wanna do some web design for my new project? :D
#edubuntu 2011-01-31
<eternal> stupid people
<eternal> use windows. don't use silly ubuntu
<eternal> use windows. don't use silly ubuntu
<mhall119> wow, trolling edubuntu
<mhall119> that'll make us take you seriously
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> good morning
<stgraber> morning
#edubuntu 2011-02-01
<alkisg> Good morning
<gurkhali69> hello can anyone help me with ltsp in edubuntu?
<highvoltage> stgraber: how do I lie about my geoip to be able to test my edubuntu isos?
<ogra> highvoltage, unplug your network ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: I disabled network in network manager which didn't work, but I'll try booting without network then...
<stgraber> highvoltage: hang on a sec, I'll re-enable the custom route in the bgp config ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok thanks
<ogra> geoip pulls from a central server
<stgraber> done
<ogra> so you shouldnt get any geoip stuff without network
<stgraber> ogra: basically our IP isn't registered in maxmind's database yet, so it returns None as coordinate and crashes ubiquity ;)
<ogra> fun
<stgraber> same result when there's no network
<stgraber> so I just cheat and route the geoip IP to a server in Nuremberg
<stgraber> so ubiquity thinks we're in Germany and works fine :)
<ogra> ah
<highvoltage> ah ok, the isos we're supposed to test will be spun in around an hour, so I should stop stressing
#edubuntu 2011-02-02
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<stgraber> hey mgariepy
<sakhi> highvoltage: how is it going? long time.
<highvoltage> hey sakhi. things are good, and there?
<sakhi> its going ok this side.
<highvoltage> i386 kernel panics for me in kvm
<highvoltage> oh, there it boots fine this time
<mhall119> must have gotten over it
<highvoltage> heh
#edubuntu 2011-02-03
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mhall119> good morning mgariepy
<highvoltage> good mornign mhall119
<stgraber> hey everyone
<stgraber> highvoltage: how's edubuntu doing ? (just got back from family lunch + other stuff ;))
<highvoltage> stgraber: I passed amd64 even though it's broken, with notes. it seems like that's what's happening for the amd64 desktop images
<stgraber> highvoltage: the webkit issue ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: yep
<mhall119> webkit :(
 * highvoltage gets out of meeting and catches up with *buntu
<mhall119> highvoltage: stgraber: you guys seen http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Home ?
<mhall119> I played with it for a few minutes, I can see it being very fun
<stgraber> nice
<stgraber> only issue is that it seems closed source (couldn't find the actual license anywhere)
<mhall119> oh is it?
<mhall119> ah yeah, seems to be
<mhall119> too bad
<stgraber> license doesn't seem to allow redistribution either ... so the only hope to get it in Ubuntu would be with special agreement with Canonical and to have it in partner ... we can still link to it though
<highvoltage> mhall119: I haven't used xfce in a while, how does memory usage compare to gnome these days? have you done any tests recently?
<alkisg> lxde ftw :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: well, yes
 * Nubae is running xfce on debian, its nice
<mhall119> highvoltage: I haven't done any actual benchmarks, but it it was noticably better than Gnome on 192MB Pentium 2 machines a couple years ago
<mhall119> and I haven't noticed Gnome getting lighter or Xfce getting heavier
<mhall119> AlanBell: Lxde is definitely lighter, but it's not as polished and well integrated
<highvoltage> mhall119: yes, I ran tests a few years back and xfce was clearly better on LTSP at that stage
<highvoltage> mhall119: but gnome has gotten a *lot* better since then and it would be nice to have a newer comparison
<Nubae> not ram wise though, there is a big difference
<Nubae> gnome wont run on less than 256mb these days
<Nubae> highvoltage is there any interest in getting sugar running on ubuntu? most of the build utilities have moved to osb, not sure if that would be acceptable for ubuntu?
<highvoltage> mhall119: found my old comparisons, but by now this is really ancient :) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-September/000537.html
<highvoltage> Nubae: If there's interest I haven't really seen it
<Nubae> yah me neither, just that email by caroline meeks
<Nubae> shame
<highvoltage> mhall119: so in 2005 a plain gnome session used more than 27MB per client when 27 users were logged in. with xfce it was less than 10MB. that's quite a significant difference :)
#edubuntu 2011-02-04
<venilsurya> Hey folks, does anyone know a software to generate molecular orbitals and electron dots?
<venilsurya> I have kalzium - its good for 3d models, but not 2d orbitals
#edubuntu 2011-02-05
<aitiba> hi
<aitiba> edubuntu comes with LSTP installed and configured?
<aitiba> only put the ethernet cable we have the first client of the LTSP?
#edubuntu 2011-02-06
<kidar> Hi, I need some advice regarding installation of edubuntu. I have a core i3 pc with 4gig of ram. which version of edubuntu must i install, the i386 or the amd64bit? pls help
<shazzr> I found that it's easier with i386. Easier to get video and stuff working.
<kidar> @alkisg what advice would u give regarding which version to install on anintel core i3 pc
<alkisg> kidar: what do you mean about version?
<alkisg> kernel version? ubuntu flavor?
<kidar> edubuntu 10.04 i386 or edubuntu 10.04 amd64?
<alkisg> I'd use i386, I think also Canonical recommends that.
<kidar> ohh, ok. i just thought that since the pc is core i3 and has 4gig ram i should use the amd 64.
<ogra> what for ?
<ogra> do you have any apps that specifically use 64bit instructions ?
<ogra> else i386 with the pae kernel should be fine
<alkisg> He's gone :)
<ogra> ha
<ogra> heh
<ATDPRHS> Hello
<ATDPRHS> Anyone can help me in installing ubuntu manually on a specific hard drive without causing any changes to the other partitions specially windows partition? (I'm new at this, so please someone help me)
<ATDPRHS> anyone here???
<alkisg> If noone answers, for general ubuntu questions you can ask in #ubuntu or in #ubuntu-beginners
<ATDPRHS> join #ubuntu-beginners
<ATDPRHS> thank you
#edubuntu 2012-01-30
<Guest91918> hi guys
<Guest91918> i m having a problem when i tyo to login in a shell
<Guest91918> login incorrect
<Guest91918> everytime
<Guest91918> i m using oneiric 11.10
<alkisg> highvoltage: at http://edubuntu.org/2012-01-27/ubuntu-developer-week the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeeku link is wrong, it has an extra u at the end
<highvoltage> hey gu<tab>
<Coldfire202> Hello
<Coldfire202> Is someone around that know a lot about ubuntu?
<Coldfire202> knows*
#edubuntu 2012-01-31
<astraljava> Hey guys, we (as in Ubuntu Studio) want to do the similar thing with the ubiquity plugin as you, but now I'm failing to find the relevant branch of your project on LP, to have a better example for constructing ours.
<astraljava> I know of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/edubuntu-live/precise, but I understand that this is not the place where your devs tweak things, or is it?
<astraljava> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.precise <-- is that the place?
<astraljava> I suppose I could clarify my question a bit. I'm especially interested in those two .py files, that are in the ubiquity/plugins/ directory. Where do they come from? I can't find that branch anywhere, unless the first that I linked to is actually the one where the work happens.
<viva> Hi. Help please! I have run a run a 32 client edubuntu network at Eden Campus, in Kartara, South Africa fro the last six years. Last year, we stayed at 10.o4, since the client processors needed 'cx8 and cmov' instructtions in the kernel. This year, we bought 5 new clients.
<viva> bah
<viva> OK please help if possibele
<viva> I run a 32 client network in karatara
<viva> We have used edubuntu for 6 years. And it is awesome
<viva> last year we stayed on 10.04, since the client cpus needed cx8 and cmov instructions (geodes)
<viva> This year we bought 5 new clients, using ASROCK G41M - VS3
<viva> it has the X4500 graphics chips from intel
<viva> The d...m things boot, get ip address, load image, and as the screen goes to graphics - it blanks out with
<viva> a flashing cursor..
<viva> The new clients replace old faulty geode units.
<viva> Q: how do i get the new units to display graphics
<viva> and
<viva> Can I mix the new technology with the old on the client side network?
<viva> I imagine it is a 10.04 driver issue - since three variants of the mother boards behaved the same.
<highvoltage> UDW Edubuntu session in #ubuntu-classroom in around 10 minutes
<highvoltage> hey viva
<viva> hi HV
<highvoltage> where in SA is Kartara? I've never heard of it :)
<viva> Nera Knysna. In the forests of the outeniqua mountains
<highvoltage> aah
<highvoltage> viva: have you checked whether you have an lts.conf file? perhaps it's hardcoded to use a specific driver for all the clients?
<viva> Its a small loogfer town historically
<highvoltage> (I'll be back a bit later)
<viva> Its worth a look. Ill check after dinner.
<highvoltage> great
<viva> ty. any suggestions welcome at this stage.
<highvoltage> knysna is one of the few parts of SA I haven't been in yet :)
<viva> Some say its the best part - ocean, mountains, gorges and ancient forests
<highvoltage> I had friends go there for honeymoon earlier this month and they *really* enjoyed it
<viva> They probably stayed at my place - I run Teniqua Treetops ;-)
<viva> were big on honeymoons
<viva> Where are you located?
<viva> ?
<viva> Hi, Voltage. There is only the example lts.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc.
<viva> No screen settings, everything commented out. :(
<viva> ^C test
<viva> test
<highvoltage> stgraber: I mentioned weblive during our UDW session and it got some good feedback :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: cool
<viva> highvoltage: Client boots to blank screen after loading initrd.img . daemon.log says: tftp: client does not accept options.
<viva> No lts.conf is present.
<highvoltage> hmm, that doesn't sounds like a display related issue
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you have an idea what could cause that tftp message ^^^?
<viva> It happens on two 10.04 servers, and three different new MB, but not on 27 VXL geode clients.
<viva> no, a google says to ignore tftp does not accept options -
<viva> no idea
<stgraber> yeah, I've seen that tftp message and it's indeed safe to ignore
<viva> hi stgraber
<viva> This relates to new clients on a 10.04 netowrk of clients using geode processors
<viva> Funny thing, if we plug an Nvidea small card into the mb, it boots fine.
<viva> Doesn't detect monitor size though, runs at 1024*768 max
<stgraber> is the thin client responding to ping (you can probably find the IP address in /var/log/syslog)
<stgraber> (unfortunately I really don't have time to help you debug this, we have alpha-2 to release by Thursday and people are poking me everywhere to fix installer bugs in Ubuntu ...)
<viva> Client gets address of 192.168.0.143 - (DHCPACK). Ping fails - destination host unreachable
<viva> Sorry stgraber. But i am a bit desperate. 3 days.... this is bugging me.
<viva> Any clues welcome!
<highvoltage> viva: do those machines have 2 network cards in them?
<highvoltage> (ah never mind)
<viva> The server has 2 nics. the client has 1 - 100mbs
<viva> lol
<alkisg> (08:12:38 Î¼Î¼) viva: Funny thing, if we plug an Nvidea small card into the mb, it boots fine. ==> The same client works with an nvidia card but not with a geode card?
<viva> The geodes work fine - 27 machines for 6yrs (VXL)
<viva> the new boards are ASROCK G41M -VS# with X4500 graphics on board
<viva> They fail, unless we plug in a ge 220 nvidea ( ithink that was the model)
<alkisg> So these boards don't boot with the onboard graphics card, but they boot if you put an nvidia graphics card on them?
<viva> Yes. And we tried it with 3 boards with the same chipsets - 2 ASROCK variants and a gigabyte - at the shop today
<viva> they all fail without an external card
<alkisg> So if it's a graphics driver issue, why are we mentioning tftp problems etc?
<alkisg> Just try with a newer kernel...
<viva> Because i can ping the client after it fails.
<viva> I cant use a newer kernel because of "cx8 & cmov" not in newer kernels?
<viva> or i don't know how anyway ;)))
<viva> Cannot ping after graphics fail
<viva> we plan to replace the geodes next year, but dont have $ for 27 new ones this year
<alkisg> You can have different kernels for each set of clients
<viva> aaah. yesss. how? please!
<alkisg> E.g. you apt-get install linux-image-generic-lts-backport-oneiric in the chroot to get the new kernel, chmod +r $CHROOT/* to make it readable, ltsp-update-image/kernels,
<alkisg> and then all clients will boot with the new kernel,
<viva> yes?
<alkisg> except for those that you put special entries in pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address
<alkisg> (i.e. the geode ones)
<alkisg> $ cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/01-00-0b-cd-c7-55-77
<alkisg> DEFAULT old-vmlinuz ro initrd=old-initrd.img nbd_proxy=false nocompcache
<alkisg> Something like that
<alkisg> Check first that it works with the new kernel. Backup your /opt/ltsp too, in case you do something wroing.
<viva> OK. I am going to try that out - and see if i can get anywhere.
<viva> ty, i will read up a bit too.
<alkisg> If the newer kernel isn't enough, you can even have different chroots, e.g. a lucid one and an oneiric one
<alkisg> (e.g. if newer xorg bits are needed)
<viva> mmm. one step at a time for me ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: are these the images that need testing for alpha2 or are there new ones on the way? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20120131/
<stgraber> highvoltage: whatever is on iso.qa.ubuntu.com is what needs testing (unless they are marked as rebuilding). I believe they'll all be rebuilt for a kernel and some gnome-settings-daemon stuff (also unity-greeter apparently) but doing an initial test is always good and the delta (using zsync) won't be too big
<bmoez>  i'm working on project which it goal is to represent ubuntu as the official os in my country tunisia after windows xp ( for familar uses and education from primer school to professional school), but i didn't find yet a complet list of apps that will be used in all domain of education (phys, tech, maths..), and many apps are not available in .deb or .rpm formts (like salomÃ©), So can i found help at edubuntu?
<highvoltage> hey bmoez
<highvoltage> that list sounds interesting :)
<bmoez> can you give some exemples of apps
<bmoez> or a site where can i found help? :D
<highvoltage> bmoez: have you checked Ubuntu Software Center?
<highvoltage> it has all the packaged apps (many of them not installed in Edubuntu by default)
<bmoez> i 'm using ubuntu , are there more apps at edubuntu ?
<brebre> can someone help me
<brebre> with edubuntu
<brebre> please
<brebre> I can't make my wiFi to automaticly connect
<brebre> it asks for password on every log in
<brebre> I have edubuntu 7
<highvoltage> bmoez: they have the same available packages, you can even install the edubuntu desktop packages from software center in ubuntu
<highvoltage> brebre: does it say something about unlocking a keyring?
<highvoltage> brebre: it probably is...
<highvoltage> brebre: you can go to Applications > Accessories > Passwords and Encryption keys and update your keyring password setting
 * highvoltage is off
#edubuntu 2012-02-01
<highvoltage> I like how Edubuntu is on the top of the QA tracker :)
<highvoltage> (I realise it's just alphabetical, but still)
<stgraber> :)
 * ogra_ ponders creating abuntu just to surpass it :P
<highvoltage> is that the distribution to excercise your abs? the one that you run with a wii-fit? :p
<ogra_> abuntu - sixpacks for human beings ?
<highvoltage> heh
<bencrisford> highvoltage: when and where can one find the edubuntu meetings these days? :)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: last wednesday of every month
<highvoltage> (at least it's a short month so you don't have to wait *that* long :p)
<highvoltage> bencrisford: nice to see you around again!
<bencrisford> highvoltage: it seems my timings out by a week :p but yeah, it'll be nice to get reaquainted with the project, nice be around again! havent been running ubuntu for quite a while, its a breath of fresh air
#edubuntu 2012-02-03
<bmoez> hi, where can i found the list of secondry programs in edubuntu with description for each? a page web will be great !
<bmoez> anybody here?!
<bmoez> i reapet my question: "where can i found the list of secondry programs in edubuntu with description for each? a page web will be great !"
<highvoltage> hey bmoez
<highvoltage> you can get it in software center
<bmoez> hey, i know, but i want a complete docmentation for all secondry apps
<highvoltage> ah
<bmoez> descreption in software center is to short and limited
<alkisg> If you do create such a documentation, we can put it in the wiki :)
<alkisg> kde-edu has a page with its apps
<bmoez> what is the link of this wiki?
<alkisg> It's the same as the ubuntu wiki... wiki.edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> yeah it's under the /edubuntu namespace
<highvoltage> wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu
<highvoltage> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu that is
<highvoltage> (silly chromium)
<bmoez> thanks, i will search for some docs :)
<highvoltage> (I think alkisg meant that you should make them :p)
<bmoez> highvoltage: at edubuntu wiki, i didn't found any electric program (for secondray uses). in windows, i have used  proteus (isis): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_(design_software). do you now an other program that run natively in linux with the same features and functions?
<highvoltage> do you use that to draw circuits?
<bmoez> yes, in my country tunisia we use it
<highvoltage> bmoez: it's slightly different that what you're looking for, but have you tried 'fritzing'? It's a great breadboard-like app
<bmoez> no, i will try it
<highvoltage> bmoez: have you tried linsmith yet?
<highvoltage> (it's simplistic but it might work)
<bmoez> no, i tried geda and kicad, but they were some differenet
#edubuntu 2012-02-05
<highvoltage> stgraber: hey, do you still happen to have one of those Edubuntu presentation templates? (or if you could forward me some old slides that would be great)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll forward you some stuff
#edubuntu 2013-01-28
<stgraber> highvoltage: btw, I wrote an initial ldap browser last night in edubuntu-server
#edubuntu 2013-01-31
<fabricio> hi
<fabricio> something can help me?
#edubuntu 2013-02-01
<Zack_> Hi!
<Zack_> I have a question about the Edubuntu setup program.
#edubuntu 2013-02-02
<covershyang> hello test
#edubuntu 2014-01-29
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh. http://jonathancarter.org/files/dump/deployments.jpg
<stgraber> highvoltage: doh, again... I'll fix that
<highvoltage> yeah looks like someone had some fun but didn't get far hehe
<stgraber> highvoltage: should be much better now
#edubuntu 2014-02-02
<airjump> Hallo
<airjump> Search a German edubuntu Community ?
<highvoltage> hey airjump long time no speak
<airjump> Yes
<airjump> How are you?
<highvoltage> good thanks and you?
<airjump> Fine thanks
<airjump> Search Infos about edubuntu ltsp an a android tablet as a thin Client
<airjump> Ltsp and a android app thin Client :-)
<highvoltage> ah right. yeah tablets can't strictly do ltsp. on that you'll probably have to use NC or VNC or something similar
<highvoltage> yeah
<airjump> VNC yes
<airjump> Thanks
<airjump> Good Day Bye Bye
<highvoltage> bye!
#edubuntu 2015-01-29
<notegood> we're a NGO from Barcelona, (  www.comparte.org )  that re-use laptops to equip libraries in latam with EDUBUNTU. Now we're with 20 HP ELITEBOOK 6930 needing drivers for wifi auto detection in their BROADCOM chipset...can you help us?
<notegood> www.notegood.org
<highvoltage> hey notegood
<highvoltage> have you tried installing the b43-fwcutter package? it downloads braodcom firmware then it should work after a reboot
<highvoltage> (you'd have to be on ethernet to download it the first time, of course)
<notegood> i'll try, thanks highvolageÂ¡Â¡
<notegood> wifi working thanks hv best regardssÂ¡Â¡Â¡
<highvoltage> great!
#edubuntu 2015-01-30
<olegb> is it just on "my end" or it the www.edubuntu.org webpage down ?
<highvoltage> I can access it here
<olegb> strange, i get: "Forbidden. You don't have permission to access / on this server."
<olegb> its because of https-everywhere (browser-extension) - https, not configured on www.edubuntu.org ?
<olegb> oh, well - problem solved :-) thanks
#edubuntu 2015-01-31
<I-Punkt> I need held with edubuntu 14.04. Is there a howto about edit clientmenu? in 12.04 was the profilemanager, but now?
#edubuntu 2015-02-01
<doctari> can anyone help with a menueditor problem, please?
<doctari> anyone know how to force profiles for students?
<I-Punkt> after install edubuntu14.04 gnome-classic i cant change client-menu. why does the Edubuntu-Menu-Editor-Profile-Manager never work? in 12.04 all was fine. but now, whatever i try, the thinclients get the full menu. please help
<I-Punkt> DE
<doctari> I-Punkt, I am having the same problem. I have been trying for days to solve.
<doctari> you have to sudo apt-get install python-gconf
<doctari> to get menu-editor to start
<doctari> question I-Punkt what do you have to do after you assign the group in profile manager?
<I-Punkt> i import the edited menu-profile and pull it over the group. then i save it. thats all i have done
<doctari> and it just works when the user logs in, I-Punkt?
<doctari> I-Punkt, do you have any notes on file location or anything special you had to do to get it to work?
<I-Punkt> it does not work. no errors. all looks good, but if thinclients connect, the user got the big menu
<doctari> gconf is missing in python
<doctari> you have to install python-gconf
<I-Punkt> i try python-gconf
<I-Punkt> this is what i have done sudo apt-get install python-gmenu kommander gksu
<I-Punkt> sudo ln -s /usr/bin/kommander /usr/bin/kmdr-executor
<I-Punkt> sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libkommanderwidgets.so.4 /usr/lib/libkommanderwidgets.so
<I-Punkt> sudo chmod +x /usr/share/desktop-profiles/kommander-scripts/profile-manager.kmdr
<doctari> what did that do for you?
<I-Punkt> nothing, i think. this is what i found in the net
<I-Punkt> sorry, my english...
<doctari> did you do any of that for 12.04?
<I-Punkt> apt say python-gconf is up to date
<I-Punkt> no, in 12.04 all works. but it is long ago
<doctari> try menueditor from the terminal. you can see any errors on start
<I-Punkt> now i try 14.04 and nothing works in menu
<doctari> open menu and save a blank archive first
<I-Punkt> menueditor starts with no errors
<doctari> open menu-editor and save a blank archive first
<I-Punkt> what you mean blank? all entries off and than save?
<doctari> when I was opening menu-editor there was nothing there
<I-Punkt> waht filetype i have to save? testmenu.tar.gz?
<doctari> so I tried saving an empty archive and after I closed and open menu-editor again all of the applications were there
<doctari> yes
<I-Punkt> the terminal does not show errors. finaly i saved a testmenu.tar.gz and finished. no errors.
<I-Punkt> i think i found a error. i extract the testmenu.tar.gz. inside i found 2 folders but nothing inside.
<I-Punkt> folder 1 share the second called xdg
<I-Punkt> no file and no hidden files in the sufolders.
<I-Punkt> that is the reason. the menueditor save the menu.tar.gz but there is no configfile inside. whats now?
<doctari> try closinf menu-editor and then open it again
<doctari> try closing
<I-Punkt> in the last few minutes i have try it 3 times with differnent archive-names and extract it. everytime the same. subfolders without configfiles.
<I-Punkt> hmmm
<doctari> so when you opened menu-editor could you see the applications
<I-Punkt> yes. all apps are there and i can check boxes. i uncheck many of them, hit save -> test.tar.gz. no errors posted in terminal. archive is ok, but without configfiles
<doctari> the first archive I made I put into /etc/menueditor I think
<doctari> hold on
<doctari> I-Punkt, yeah your right mine doesn't have conf files either
<doctari> hold on more files were created let me find them
<I-Punkt> in /etc/edubuntu-menueditor  i find a folder called testmenu. the profile-manager seems to work, but without configfiles in the menu-tar there will be no changes for the clients.
<doctari> look in /etc/desktop-profiles there should be some .listing files there
<I-Punkt> yes. the second called testuser-testmenu.listing. but the menu-tar is buggy and thatswhy this configfile has only a few lines
<I-Punkt> nothing that looks like my changes.
<I-Punkt> connection fail?
<doctari_> I-Punkt, sorry power went out here
<I-Punkt> 18:47:15 - I-Punkt: yes. the second called testuser-testmenu.listing. but the menu-tar is buggy and thatswhy this configfile has only a few lines
<I-Punkt> 18:47:44 - I-Punkt: nothing that looks like my changes.
<doctari_> you are correct my archive file is blank also. directories but no conf files
<I-Punkt> how can i get a example *.listing? if i see how it looks like maybe i can create my own menu.listing. i think there is a bug in menueditor
<I-Punkt> whats now?
<I-Punkt> without configfiles the profilemanager dont make changes in clientmenu
<doctari_> that same folder has the default .listing
<I-Punkt> inside these file is nothing tha looks like menu-apps
<I-Punkt> what can i do now? what you think. i would try to install a 12.04-VM and create a menu.tar.gz. if this works i can import this in 14.04.
<doctari_> there is an application you can install that will track all file changes I am rtying to remember the name of it
<doctari_> tripwire, I-Punkt you could intall the 12.04 system and tripwire and then you could see every file that changes as you make your new profile
<doctari_> then maybe we could figure out what is missing in 14.04, maybe even fix it
<I-Punkt> sounds good
<I-Punkt> i witch country u live?
<doctari_> us
<doctari_> you are in germany right
<I-Punkt> yes and here ist evening.
<I-Punkt> lol
<doctari_> its sunday morning here
<doctari_> actually sunday afternoon
<I-Punkt> 7pm. its too late to make a vm with 12.04 now. iÇe to take my thins to bed.
<doctari_> can I ask for a favor
<I-Punkt> do it
<doctari_> can we connect privately so I can give you my email address, I would really like to know what you find out
<I-Punkt> ok.
<I-Punkt> on witch way u will take me your email. privat window?
<doctari_> look for a new tab that says doctari_
<I-Punkt> have seen
#edubuntu 2017-01-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-proposed/main) [2.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.9-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (xenial-proposed/main) [2.0.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.0.6-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (yakkety-proposed/main) [2.0.5-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.10.1 => 2.0.6-0ubuntu1~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-02-01
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.7.8-68-gca3ae67-0ubuntu1~16.10.1 => 0.7.9-0ubuntu1~16.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-02-04
<razer_> hello, I just installed ubuntu-edu-preschool for the kids, but most of them are KDE applications which create menu entries containing -caption %c
<razer_> since I'm on an old pc I need to use LXDE
<razer_> which doesn't work with the -caption command
<razer_> do I need to manually remove the -caption from the menu entries for all users?
#edubuntu 2018-02-02
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.1-46-g7acc9e68-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-46-g7acc9e68-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.2-30-gf7deaf15-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-02-03
<shazzr> clear
#edubuntu 2019-01-29
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (cosmic-proposed/main) [18.4-7-g4652b196-0ubuntu1 => 18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~18.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [18.4-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.4-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 18.5-21-g8ee294d5-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-01-29
<Spellon> Evening folks
