#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-03
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128
<crevette> salut
<huats> hey crevette
<seb128> pitti: there?
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> pitti: I've noticed you copied a bunch of updates to -updates thanks, anything blocking nautilus-sendto in hardy? still waiting on somebody to confirm the fixes?
<pitti> seb128: yes, there's no response at all
<pitti> seb128: at least confirm that the package still works (regressions)
<seb128> I'll try to get pedro to comment on those ;-)
<pitti> eww, libgnome2-dev is uninstallable for me
<seb128> pitti: btw did you copy totem-pl-parser to intrepid-updates?
<pitti> seb128: no, I didn't copy anything to intrepid-updates yet
<pitti> it's not old enough yet :)
<pitti> seb128: I did copy them to jaunty, though
<seb128> ah ok, right
<seb128> I misread this mail ;-)
<seb128> I didn't notice jaunty was already open
<pitti> it isn't
<pitti> you can upload, but it's frozen
<pitti> for the toolchain, I suppose
<pitti> but copy-package doesn't build again, so that's fine
<seb128> ok
<seb128> bah, the bug flood is impressive
<seb128> I got over 700 mails during the weekend and I'm not subscribed to all the desktop components
<pitti> yeah, I got some 150 SRU bug mails
<pitti> this morning I woke up and thought "nice, quiet day for doing some merges and so on"
<pitti> until I opened mutt :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mvo: nice trick for the default schemas value ;-)
<mvo> seb128: could you please review https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/260492/comments/77 ? if its cool with you I will upload
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260492 in gnome-panel "opening a directory using an application change associations incorrectly" [Medium,In progress]
<mvo> seb128: thanks :)
<mvo> seb128: so you read it already? oyu have jedi powers
<seb128> mvo: great minds work together or what do you say? ;-)
<mvo> heh :) yeah, "great minds work alike" or something like this :)
<seb128> mvo: I was just looking at it
<seb128> mvo: why do you have 2 GLists now?
<mvo> seb128: I keep the head pointer so that I can properly g_list_free() it later, I asked friday if g_list_free(g_list_last()) would free the entire list or the list starting from the element that it starts from and it seems like its the later
<seb128> mvo: ah, that's to free it
<mvo> yes
<seb128> mvo: could you name it l_copy or l_start rather? ;-)
<mvo> it should be used just for that (unless I misused it elsewhere of course ;)
<seb128> mvo: otherwise you still "g_object_unref(app);" in the case where app == NULL
<seb128> mvo: dunno if that's a likely to happen case and if g_object_unref(NULL) is an issue or not
<mvo> right, I check that
<mvo> good point
<seb128> mvo: otherwise that looks good to me, thanks for working on that!
<seb128> did you try the code?
<seb128> I can give it a try too if you want
<mvo> seb128: yes, worked for me - if oyu try it, please make sure that you run the second version (comment 77) - the first one has the wrong version in the postinst check
<seb128> mvo: ok
<pitti> seb128: I'd appreciate a quick good/bad from you for bug 290904
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290904 in pidgin "Pidgin missing dependency on gvfs-backends" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290904
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I fixed the g_unref(app) issue now too
<seb128> mvo: and renamed the variable to l_start? ;-)
<mvo> don't make me use quilt yet again for this change please ;)
<seb128> mvo: use x-replace? ;-)
<mvo> hm, thats a idea
<seb128> pitti: I would say it's not correct, I tried in a virt-inst and the gvfs errors are there in other softwares too
<seb128> pitti: gvfs should depends on gvfs-backends
<pitti> seb128: so it's not just a harmless warning, it is a real issue?
<pitti> ah, I see
<seb128> pitti: pidgin doesn't use gvfs directly in any way so the depends is wrong placed there
<pitti> it seemed weird to me to associate pidgin with gvfs
<seb128> pitti: well, the warning is there for other applications, those don't crash though
<pitti> exactly
<seb128> but in any case the depends is wrong
<seb128> there might be some code in pidgin not handling the broken setup but the depends would be a wrong workaround
<pitti> seb128: so the depends rather belongs to libgvfscommon0 or gvfs
<seb128> right
<seb128> gvfs recommends gvfs-backends
<seb128> so I would say it's not worth a sru in any case
<pitti> seb128: what would happen if you install pidgin, but don't have any gvfs packages?
<seb128> let me try to remove gvfs* in a kvm image
<seb128> but as said pidgin doesn't use gvfs directly in any way
<seb128> so if there is a bug that would rather be a glib one
<pitti> right
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> pitti: ok, uninstalling *gvfs* leads to pidgin working normally and displaying no warning
<pitti> seb128: perfect then
<pitti> seb128: I reject the bug then
<pitti> for intrepid, anyway
<seb128> pitti: the only case I get warning is when gvfs is installed and not gvfs-backends
<seb128> and it doesn't crash
<pitti> for jaunty, lifting recommends to depends is fine for me
<seb128> pitti: I would rather say that the monitors should be moved to gvfs
<seb128> and gvfs-backends just have the backends
<pitti> seb128: or that; I updated the bug
<pitti> seb128: merci!
<seb128> thanks
<mvo> seb128: could you write a TEST CASE section for the gnome-panel problem? i.e. how to set the association of a directory in hardy so that in intrepid the failure shows up?
<seb128> mvo: ok
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> mvo: testcase added
<seb128> huats_: how is the gucharmap update going?
<mvo> thanks seb128
<seb128> huats: you still use hardy right?
<huats> nope
<huats> seb128: sorry :(
<huats> I still have a vm
<seb128> ok, I though you were staying on hardy at work
<huats> that is the pb
<seb128> anybody there still on hardy?
<huats> I have switched
<huats> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<huats> (and get tons of freeze since)
<Nafallo> seb128: I have it on my eeepc at home.
<Nafallo> seb128: something urgent?
<seb128> Nafallo: no
<seb128> bug #195580
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195580 in nautilus-sendto "Nautilus-sendto always uses first entry in the combo-box" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195580
<seb128> a sru which is waiting for anybody to verify it for 38 days now
<seb128> I did the upload so I'm trying to find somebody to confirm nautilus-sendto still works for him or her and fix the bug
<Nafallo> seb128: ah. I don't use evolution :-)
<seb128> huats: if you want to do some testing in your vm feel free ;-)
<huats> seb128: sure
<seb128> huats: how is the gucharmap update going btw?
<seb128> hey hggdh
<huats> seb128: I haven't touched it yet :(
<huats> i hope tomorrow :(
<seb128> ok, no hurry, I was just wondering
<huats> ok
<huats> :)
<huats> regarding the nautilus send to
<huats> i'll test it
<huats> but right now I am trying to see if my computer does not freeze :)
<seb128> ok
<huats> so I'll do that in the late afternoon  if everything is OK till  that :)
<seb128> did you find anything interesting?
<huats> no not really
<huats> it is not the nvidia stuffs, since I experience the same things with nv
<huats> and it is not the wifi module either (since it happens also without it loaded)
<huats> and apparently I don't experience freezes on a fresh install on the same computer
<seb128> weird thing
<seb128> good luck to debug this one ;-)
<hggdh> hey seb128
<huats> thanks seb128 :)
<firechris> Hello @all
<firechris> may some one help me
<firechris> I cannot switch a spell-checker on, a I
<firechris> But ispell and aspell are installed
<ottoshmidt> is Hardware Testing disabled in 8.10?
<ottoshmidt> test message - don't reply
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-04
<pitti> seb128: bonjour
<seb128> hello pitti
<pitti> seb128: would you mind if I SRU bug 259799?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259799 in glib2.0 "Suggestion: support for ecryptfs in Nautilus" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259799
<pitti> seb128: (hiding "ecryptfs" mounts)
<seb128> go for it
<pitti> still no response from upstream, but it's trivial
<pitti> seb128: ok, merci
<seb128> lot of green on the sru lists for intrepid that's nice ;-)
<pitti> yeah, good to have many developers using intrepid :)
<huats> morning everyone !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> plop
<seb128> pitti: btw can I restart the intrepid retracers or are you still working on ddeb?
<seb128> mvo: hey, do you know if the intrepid kvm not booting an hardy iso is a known issue?
<pitti> seb128: oh, sorry; please restart them
<seb128> pitti: ok doing now
<pitti> seb128: ddeb.u.c. is grinding quite fine now; no lockups any more, gpg seems fine, and indexes seem correct
<seb128> cool!
<pitti> it's still horribly slow, though
<pitti> but at least I tracked it down
<pitti> it's not actually apt-ftparchive generating Packaes
<pitti> but apt-ftparchive taking aaaages to compress it to Packages.gz
<seb128> weird
<pitti> oh, I should set up jaunty
 * pitti does it now
<mvo> seb128: let me check
<seb128> mvo: I get the language selector, can validate that but the menu next doesn't work so I can't actually boot it
<mvo> seb128: I heared about that one, is that a 8.04 or a 8.04.1 CD?
<seb128> pitti: what is the duplicate database consolidation about exactly btw?
<seb128> mvo: I guess 8.04, I don't think I downloaded 8.04.1 but I can try that one
<pitti> seb128: the dup db has a bug status (open/fixed in version V)
<pitti> this is used for deciding whether a duplicate is really a dup or a regression
<didrocks> morning o/
<seb128> pitti: what is it doing exactly to take over an hour on ronne?
<pitti> this consolidation thing runs through the actual launchpad bugs, grabs their status, and updates the open/closed status in the dup db
<pitti> seb128: quering Launchpad is what makes it so slow
<seb128> so it goes through the whole list every time?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<seb128> hum
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: if I had direct DB access (readonly), it would be a matter of seconds, I presume
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> lut seb128
<seb128> pitti: that might be something worth asking, a dump of those informations somewhere
<pitti> seb128: not a dump, but direct readonly DB access
<seb128> right, that one might be trickier to get, but if they are wanting to do that ;-)
<pitti> seb128: bdmurray uses such a thing for some custom queries
<pitti> so I think it's not that hard actually
<pitti> okay, ddebs.u.c. cronjob for jaunty set up, and running now
<pitti> that should have covered all ddebs so far, so nothing should be lost
<seb128> mvo, pitti: could somebody reply to the current comment on bug #293441?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293441 in gedit "gedit not responding in 8.10" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293441
<pitti> seb128: I can answer the public key thing
<pitti> seb128: but he didn't say that it crashed? seems to be a permission problem
 * pitti writes a wiki page about debug symbols
<seb128> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash has instructions
<pitti> ah, adding it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<seb128> pitti: right the pubkey question
<Hobbsee> seb128: pubkey info answered.
<seb128> Hobbsee: hey, thanks ;-)
<Hobbsee> seb128: you're welcome.  How's it going?  :)
<pitti> Hobbsee: ah, I was going to point them to the wiki page update I'm just writing :)
<Hobbsee> pitti: that works too
<pitti> answered
<pitti> Hobbsee: that actually requires apt-key, not just gpg --recv-key
<Hobbsee> pitti: oh, that's a point.
<seb128> Hobbsee: good thanks, relaxing week after intrepid (if you don't count the bug flood coming from users who just upgraded) ;-)
<seb128> Hobbsee: you?
<Hobbsee> seb128: yeah, pretty good.  Assignments and such,before the end of uni.  :)
<seb128> urg
<seb128> pitti: 71 open bugs on gnome-mount, most seem not have been triaged, do you think you could have a look to clean the list a bit this cycle or should I add that to my todolist?
<pitti> seb128: that's actually on my TODO list already, but I simply didn't get to it yet :(
<seb128> pitti: ok good, I'll try to triage some of those too
<seb128> hey pedro_
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<seb128> pedro_: how are you?
<seb128> did you manage to catch up on the weekend desktop bug flood yet? ;-)
<pedro_> seb128: I'm good thanks, how about you?
<seb128> I'm good too thanks!
<pedro_> seb128: eek i'm still reading bug mail, ~3500 to read, not having a good internet connection while you're at conferences really sucks :-/
<seb128> pedro_: you should mark all as read, or at least all the bugs where I did post a comment
<seb128> pedro_: I opened my mailed on saturday and had like 300 new bug mails so I decided to clean a bit during the weekend to not have some thousand bugs to read on monday
<pedro_> seb128: ah ok, I'll do that then. btw have you seen bug 269441?, it's the opposite we are used to see with the trash
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269441 in gnome-applets "Trash always full" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269441
<seb128> pedro_: I try to use the web interface now to triage components, less stressing than reading inbox ;-)
<seb128> pedro_: I think the issue is "update doesn't always work correctly" which can go both way, the code didn't change a lot between hardy and intrepid
<pedro_> seb128: yeah i tend to use the web interface also for not going crazy with email
<pedro_> seb128: ah ok that makes sense then, thanks you
<seb128> pedro_: one efficient way to sort bugs is newer first filtering one bugs which have no upstream task open yet
<mvo> I wish there was a "most-recently-changed (but not by me)" filter
<Hobbsee> seb128: is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/240472 a libgnomeui bug, or a kubuntu one?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240472 in kubuntu-meta "firefox3 breaks in kubuntu when certain programs are installed" [Undecided,New]
<Hobbsee> (or a heisenbug)
<seb128> Hobbsee: that's not a libgnomeui bug, could be some ia32lib issue or local bug or kubuntu dunno
<seb128> mvo: right that would be useful
<seb128> lunch time bbl
<Hobbsee> seb128: OK, thanks.
<asac> when is -desktop meeting today?
<asac> did we say 1600 UTV?
<asac> UTC
<crevette> damn my karma decreased, how it is possible!!!
<asac> crevette: I took all the bug credits
<asac> by doing 24/7 bug triage the last 5 days or so ;)
<asac> i think i gaine 5k bug karma ;)
<asac> gained
<crevette> asac, I'm back to 996 I was 100x 2 days ago
<asac> crevette: thats not really a big decrease ;)
<crevette> not but I was happy to go over 1000
<asac> hehe
<asac> crevette: just triage 50 new bugs for firefox ;)
<asac> or 200 if you want :)
<asac> network-manager surely has enough new bugs too ;)
<asac> Hobbsee: libqtengine not in ia32libs?
<asac> seb128: isn't there supposed to be  a -desktop meeting today?
<pitti> hello
<pitti> desktop meeting starting now
<pedro_> hello everybody
<asac> hah
<ArneGoetje> hi
<seb128> asac: right, it's right now, and on this chan
 * pitti pinged bryce, Riddell, kwwii to join
<asac> inspiration ;)
<pitti> ArneGoetje: there?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: yes
<pitti> bryce, Riddell: hello
<Riddell> hi
 * bryce waves
<pitti> new release, new meeting time, new meeting place :)
<pitti> everyone recovered reasonably from the release crunch?
<pitti> Scott asked me to do the meeting and report today, he doesn't feel well
<seb128> pitti: being fighting the bug flood now ;-)
<seb128> it's amazing how many bugs we got during the weekend
<asac> i took some rest by doing 24/7 bug triaging ;)
<pitti> yeah, I felt that, too; spent half of my day reading bugs and the other half processing SRUs :)
<asac> but looking back that prevented me from recovering so far ;)
<pitti> it's great to see so many bugs fixed, though
<pitti> sad that we had them in the first place, but that was to be expected from an edgy-like 4-month release
 * pitti orders asac to get some sleep and watch some movies
<pitti> I can only recommend playing TIE fighter in dosbox :-P
<asac> that, but also most users just dont test our releases until its out
<pitti> yeah, classical chicken/egg problem
 * bryce nods
<asac> apt-cache dosbox
<asac> search
<pitti> I still need activity reports from Riddell, mpt, and kwwii
<pitti> so, obviously there is nothing spec wise to discuss today
<pitti> and nobody sent in any meeting topics
<pitti> so I'll make this quick
<pitti> but I'd like to do some bug review
<seb128> pitti: do we know when jaunty is likely to open?
<pitti> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-updates
<pitti> seb128: not yet, waiting for some manual bootstrapping from infinity
<pitti> but please don't let that stop you from doing merges
<pitti> uploading to jaunty works, it's just held in unapproved until the toolchain is sorted out
<pitti> so, above bug list is the one which should be in the distro^Wplatform team's focus for the next time
<bryce> ah cool
<pitti> I took the freedom to assign bugs to people
<pitti> where it was clear that they were working on it and there was a patch, etc.
<seb128> lot of fix commited there already ;-)
<asac> ok ... i will go over my list and assign them to me
<pitti> asac, bryce: that particularly affected you; let me know if that disturbs your bug workflow
<pitti> asac: I already did
<asac> not all ;)
<pitti> mainly because it is good to have assignees on the milestone list
<pitti> asac: in a minute
<pitti> note that I *only* assigned when there was visible progress
<pitti> there are a few which affect our team which don't have assignees
<pitti> those are the ones I'd like to skim over right now
<asac> yeah ... 284212 was fix committed ;) most likely you missed that progress then
<pitti> bug 271138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271138 in xorg "mouse and keyboard unresponsive when gdm first runs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271138
<pitti> bryce: that still looks fishy and unreproducible; do you happen to have a better idea about this?
<seb128> there is a bug similar to that which got comments recently
<pitti> @all: don't worry, it's just some 6 bugs, not too much
 * seb128 search number
<asac> pitti: did you assemble the meeting page with our reports? i reported status on all of those i think
<seb128> oh that was this one
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-11-04 is the version so far
<asac> thanks
<pitti> asac: ah, great; sorry, I got to know that I do the meeting too late, didn't manage to walk over this
<asac> no problem. go ahead ;)
<seb128> bug #264256
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264256 in gdm "gdm startup is not moved from 21 to 30 on upgrade" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264256
<pitti> bryce: I take the silence as a "NFC"? :-)
<seb128> mvo: ^ did you get some upgrade bugs about that?
<bryce> 271138: I've not reproduced it myself, but obviously this is an area where there's been some changes, so maybe there's a hw-specific corner case
<pitti> seb128: oh, that would make it earlier than hal indeed
<seb128> I used to have the "no mouse no keyboard on login screen" issue during some days and it stopped before intrepid
<pitti> bryce: but I think the gdm prio has already been checked in that?
<bryce> 271138: we've seen lots of unique hw-specific things pop up, so it wouldn't surprise me.  I'll look at it more.
<bryce> pitti: ok; I've not read through the entire bug yet
<asac> seb128: i remember that i had something like that too ...on my thinkpad
<asac> but its long gone
<seb128> pitti: well the issue got fixed for me so I'm wondering if there was not several issues and still some users who have a config which didn't get migrated correctly on upgrade
<pitti> seb128: most likely
<crevette> hello
<pitti> anyway, worth checking the gdm prio for all reporters in the bug
<pitti> bug 259168
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259168 in pptp-linux "Network Manager unable to connect to PPTP VPN" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/259168
<seb128> crevette: lut, middle of a metting right now
<pitti> asac: seems you have a patch for this?
<pitti> asac: well, report says "working"
<asac> PPTP -> yes. a patch for proper authentication
<asac> and also the options things is needed here
<asac> but i have a patch for that too
<pitti> so that doesn't have any triaging problems, it's a SMOP?
<asac> options (lcp-...)
<pitti> cool, thanks
<mvo> seb128: no, let me read
<pitti> mind if I assign to you?
<asac> that bug? sure
<pitti> asac: bug 262191 as well then? properly understood and everything?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262191 in debian "MASTER [regression] VPNC plugin - no option to only save group password available" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262191
<asac> pitti: thats not fixable without UI changes
<asac> pitti: in report i have status: patch, with concerns
<pitti> asac: ok, so it's understood and will be fixed in jaunty, but possibly not be SRUed
<pitti> Riddell: any idea about bug 290695?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 290695 in adeptmgr "Adept allows editing filenames in Details view" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290695
<asac> pitti: possible. i have some other ideas, but not a patch for that
<asac> pitti: but surely fixed in jaunty. but i want to wait for proper upstream solution that currently discuss how the applet can deal with that in a user friendly way
<pitti> asac: you want to keep it on the milestone list for now as a possible target, or dump it because it's too intrusive?
<Riddell> pitti: that would be nice for an SRU, I've not looked into it but I've seen others look into it and I think there's a patch
<asac> pitti: keep it. there might be a workaroudn without UI changes ... e.g. remember the group password if it fails
<pitti> Riddell: ah; do you think you can find out who is working on that and set the assignee?
<Riddell> pitti: can do
<pitti> asac: thanks
<pitti> Riddell: great, thanks
<pitti> ok, bugs updated
<pitti> everyone please reload https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/intrepid-updates, sort by assignee and check if you are happy with your assigned bugs
<asac> main prob for NM is currently bug #292054 - drivers take too long to associate
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292054 in network-manager "Some drivers take too long to associate (Was: network-manager 0.7 always asks for WPA passphrase)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292054
<asac> this is ridiculous and we also have a similar bug for iwl* drivers specifically
<asac> for some users wpasupplicant takes more than 3 minutes to get wpa connection
<pitti> asac: you piled up an amazing number of milestoned bugs :)
<pitti> minutes! wow
<pitti> ArneGoetje: do you know fontconfig?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: not in detail
<pitti> ok, nevermind then
<asac> pitti: luckily most have a patch now ;)
<pitti> asac: 292054> anything other team members can help with that?
<asac> pitti: unlikely. i need devs that can reproduce that at best
<asac> otherwise i will do a bunch of test rounds with users. but thats painful obviously ;)
<pitti> well, that would already help :)
<pitti> asac: let's discuss that in #u-devel after the meeting, shall we?
<asac> anyone here has issues with WPA in intrepid?
<asac> we can.
<asac> sure
<pitti> ok
<pitti> so my remaining topic is langpacks
<pitti> we have two outstanding action items from last meeting
<pitti>  * asac to help ArneGoetje perform a manual upload
<asac> done
<asac> also most likely found the issue why the version was wrong. but i better dont say it ;)
<ArneGoetje> is in the PPA and can be copied over to proposed
<pitti> that would be
<pitti>  * asac to talk to infinity to find out why Launchpad is breaking firefox langpacks
<asac> yeah
<asac> probably can be scratched
<pitti> asac: so the problem has been identified, properly being laughed at, and squashed?
<asac> yeah
<pitti> asac: so for our mental sanity we don't want to know then? :-)
<asac> at least there is a good reason why the version would be wrong ;)
<asac> yeah please
<pitti> ok
<pitti> <jedi wave>
<asac> we will see soon enough (next ffox is coming soon)
<pitti> ArneGoetje: for both hardy and intrepid?
<ArneGoetje> yep
<pitti> cool, thanks a lot
<pitti> I'll do the copying
<pitti> that's everything from me
<pitti> AOB?
<seb128> thank for leading the meeting pitti
<Riddell> pitti: KDE langpacks are still incomplete in places, I think I've tracked down what the problem is and will try to poke rosetta people about iy
<pitti> Riddell: oh heck, I thought that would have been sorted out and is just waiting for the imports to catch up?
<pitti> AFAIK the current plan is to wait until that happened, and then ship a langpack update?
<pitti> Riddell: so it's not just imports being slow, but some imports done wrongly?
<Riddell> no, seems there's yet another rosetta problem
<Riddell> it's not preserving the context strings
<Riddell> (as far as I can tell)
<pitti> argh
<pitti> but good that it's tracked down
<Riddell> these problems don't usually get fixed fast but it would be nice to time it with a langpack update if possible
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: I guess we can  and probably should wait with the update until this has been fixed...
<pitti> well, we can do a normal update now, with the PPA apcakges, and another one when this is fixed
<pitti> unless the PPA packages actually make things worse (but I don't think that's the case?)
<ArneGoetje> pitti: yes... I meant updated base packages
<Riddell> no reason why they should
<pitti> ArneGoetje: yes, absolutely
<pitti> Riddell: of course we can do an update upload once this is fixed
<pitti> ok, seems we are done, thanks everyone!
<Riddell> pitti: yeah, I'll keep you and ArneGoetje updated when I hear back from rosetta people
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<asac> thanks
<pitti> asac: so this timeout bug particuarly manifests with WPA/WPA2, i. e. with wpasupplicant?
<asac> pitti: its noisy (as always) ... its definitly WPA
<pitti> asac: so you need someone which has that  problem, and can also get some logs and debugging session with you?
<pitti> darn, no WPA in range here
<bryce> thanks pitti
<asac> pitti: there is a wide variety of symptoms here. this bug initially manifested for WPA Enterprise ... where it appears to happen for all iwl chipsets at least
<asac> pitti: but now that release is out this also seems to be a problem for normal WPA-PSK and even for none-iwl chipsets
<asac> pitti: some users cannot connect at all, for some wpasupplicant manually works well
<asac> for some NM works if it gives wpasupplicant enough time
<asac> pitti: i think there is one thing i can try to cherry pick upstream ... with some luck it helps those that can connect manually with wpasupplicant
<pitti> asac: maybe you should try asking on u-devel@, many devs read it, and it's likely to get more attention than IRC
<asac> for the rest this is completely opaque
<asac> pitti: yes. i will get feedback on the cherry pick first. if that yields nothing will spread that further around.
<pitti> asac: sounds like a plan
<asac> ok will update the bug with the cherry-pick i think is worth to test
<asac> pitti: ^^
<pitti> cool, thanks
<pitti> sorry that I can't help with that
<pitti> it Just Works(tm) for me...
<asac> no problem ;)
<asac> what we need is all hardware here or a perfect test center ;)
<pitti> but I only have eth and an open wifi, and that UMTS thing :)
<asac> same here ;)
<pitti> asac: it's called "Tim Gardner"
<asac> well.
<pitti> he has a shitload of wifis for testing
<asac> no comment
<asac> yeah. those should be here i think ;)
<asac> he doesnt triage NM issues :)
<pitti> but he can certainly help you with getting log files and all that
<asac> i think i would need a whip for that ;)
<asac> but i will try again
<asac> hmm  he is not online
<asac> ah just not in -devel
<tedg> asac: You've always wanted to visit Idaho, right? ;)
<asac> tedg: wasnt that montana?
<asac> ;)
<tedg> asac: Heh, does that change your preference?
<pitti> hey tedg
<pitti> voted yet? :-)
<pitti> tedg: I saw some photos of loooong lines in front of the voting places, crazy :)
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, I voted on Thursday.  Though unverifiable electronic voting.  Really they voted for me when they compiled the software.
<pitti> tedg: that might explain why some 50% chose postal vote...
<pitti> (rightfully so!)
<pitti> all this electronic computer crap, really
<pitti> *cough*
<tedg> I wasn't offered that option, I believe you can only do it here if you can verify that you're unable to go to a polling place (overseas address, etc.)
<pitti> ah, that's handled differently in different states, isn't it?
<tedg> Yeah, almost all aspects of voting are actually.  What happens is that basically the only thing that the federal gov't worries about is the electoral college.  Then it's up to the states to elect those electoral college members.
<tedg> There are some federal regulations for fairness and other things, but they're fairly minor compared to the total complexity of voting.
<dobey> most states require the electoral college to vote for whoever won the popular vote in the state, though not all do
<dobey> they're supposed to vote that way, but it's not really a requirement that they do, in all states
<pitti> dobey: I read about that, too
<pitti> however, they hand in their votes in sealed envelopes, so how can they actually be sure about that?
<dobey> pitti: track by fingerprint?
<pitti> heh
<dobey> pitti: i'm sure it's known
<dobey> or at least, it will become known and there will be a big ruckus about voting fraud, etc...
<dobey> maybe it will be nevada this year instead of ohio or florida, who knows
<bsnider> pitti, i think your last cups update might have broken printing support in intrepid for a lot of people
<pitti> bsnider: --verbose?
<bsnider> pitti, your last update to cups was partly a change in "debian/filters/pstopdf"
<pitti> bsnider: ah, that was an update from Till
<bsnider> that filter is now causing a whole lot of problems
<pitti> bsnider: can you please ping tkamppeter in #ubuntu-devel and discuss this?
<bsnider> sure
<pitti> bsnider: sorry, I wasn't really involved in those filters; Till knows them very well
<pitti> bsnider: thanks
<bsnider> well, i only came to you because your name was on the cups update
<bsnider> but i also know he's involved
<bsnider> he or she
<pitti> he
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-05
<huats> plop plop
<huats> oups
<huats> sorry (
<huats> wrong channel)
<huats> morning everyone one !
<Keybuk> wow, someone on Planet Ubuntu has actually managed to really offend me, and it's not \sh ;)
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: gasp.  What'd you do with the real keybuk?
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> plop seb128
<seb128> jaunty is open if some people feel adventurous and want to start on GNOME 2.25.1 updates ;-)
<huats> :)
<huats> seb128: I'll take care of some updates ...
<huats> next week :)
<seb128> anybody has an opinion on using ubuntu-bugs or desktop-bugs to store the list of packages, usual maintainers, etc informations?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> desktop-bugs or ubuntu-desktop team rather
<seb128> one has open access and the other one is restricted
<seb128> technically those don't change too often, just when we change series and when somebody wants to work on a specific package and be listed there
<slomo> seb128: you can sync gst-plugins-good0.10 from experimental later, i've added the libv4l patch upstream and to the package
<seb128> slomo: ok thanks
<asac> seb128: sound not working in flash or totem with flash currently is either pulseaudio or libasound-plugins bug afaik
<asac> just FYI ;)
<seb128> asac: ok, I just know it's not totem$
<seb128> asac: where should I reassign those?
<asac> seb128: let me gimme something
<asac> seb128: crimsun gave me this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/FlashAnswers
<asac> seb128: then assign to any sound package or even flash (crimsun also tracks flash obviously)
<seb128> asac: ok thanks
<asac> just wanted to give you and update because i saw you ended up with these bugs too ;)
<seb128> right, thank you ;-)
<asac> seb128: i think i will ask themuso too to give more content for that answer. so maybe revisit that page if you get such bugs again ;)
<seb128> asac: ok
<mvo> seb128: when do you expect a new g-t release? is it worth to put 2.24.1.1 into jaunty? or should i just wit for 2.25
<seb128> mvo: no clue, GNOME 2.25.1 is this week but not a lot of tarballs are rolled so earlier, not enough changes yet, not all the maintainers switched to unstable, etc
<seb128> mvo: so yeah likely worth doing the update now
<mvo> thanks, will do
<gkahla> am i misunderstanding the use of seahorse? I need a secure application to store my passwords in (like KeePassX)
<gkahla> i'd like to use something GNOME-native
<gkahla> not a support channel - sorry, was multitasking - pax
<MacSlow> Does anybody know how to record *spew* a flash-based web-cast?
<johanbr> Is it pre-recorded, a la youtube? If so, the Adobe plugin leaves a flash file in /tmp.
<don> Since upgrading to 8.10, I have been unable to print to my Minolta 2430DL printer.  It worked fine under 8.05.  My PDF printer works fine.
<pochu> I guess we will have webkit in main for jaunty :)
<seb128> pochu: it's already there in hardy
<seb128> ups, intrepid
<pochu> seb128: oh, I didn't notice it
<pochu> thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-06
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> lut seb128
<huats> I haven't forgotten all the stuffs I need to do (nautilus send to, the gucharmap SRU...). I am pretty confident for tomorrow :)
<seb128> huats: no need to do nautilus-sendto now, it has been accepted since
<huats> (I was refering to checking on the hardy box)
<huats> but no pb :)
<seb128> right, I understood
<huats> something to put out of my daily TODO :)
<seb128> I commented on the bug and somebody else did testing
<huats> (well I misunderstood at first glance :))
<gammy> I hear you're the ones to speak to when having problems with console-kit-daemon (or so said #ubuntu-server people) - It was whining about failing to initialize libpolkit. I *seem
<gammy> * to have solved this by installing policykit. Now, how does policykit work? I noticed the init script doesn't really do anything.
<gammy> Oh. This channel isn't for help either?
 * soren wonders if pitti has a hilight on policykit :)
<gammy> Alright..noone wants to touch that.
<gammy> How about CRON issues? Or is that a -server issue? Sigh
<soren> You're new to IRC?
<gammy> Yes.
<soren> People are busy. It sometimes takes more than a minute for people to notice a question and type an answer.
<seb128> gammy: that's not an user question channel no but pitti is nice to users and might reply when he'll be around ;-)
<gammy> Lies!
<soren> I myself have 381 irc windows open. It takes time to notice stuff that way.
<gammy> People are supposed to help me directly 24/7!
<gammy> Everyone knows that.
<gammy> seb128: User question channel? What does that mean?
<seb128> soren: you are crazy
<soren> A channel for user questions, I imagine.
<soren> seb128: Quite possibly.
<seb128> right, that's not a support channel, usually we direct questions to #ubuntu rather
<gammy> Ah yes I see
<gammy> I misread the InternetRelayChat list
<gammy> I searched it for "desktop" and didn't look at the header
<gammy> My apologies
<gammy> (Ie, I did not know "Team Channel" was equal to "not user question channel"=
<gammy> ) even
<seb128> well your question is rather a technical one so that's okish
<gammy> is it? I think it's a pretty straightforward question :o
<soren> User questions are usually stuff like "Hey, where'd my icons go" or some such.
<gammy> Basically "why does the policykit init script not init?"
<gammy> Hehe
<soren> ..and that sort of thing belongs in #ubuntu.
<gammy> I'm very new to ubuntu, I'm coming from Slackware so a lot of stuff is different.
<soren> Unless it's server related in which case it's kosher in #ubuntu-server as well.
<gammy> soren: Yeah so rephrasing makes it non-technical ;)
<soren> gammy: Sometimes, yes :)
<seb128> policykit is used for authentification by other layers in the system, that's not a running service
<gammy> it seems like the segmented channels are very "We'll tell you if it's on topic or not" without much possibility of the person asking the question figuring it out by herself :)
<pitti> gammy: what's up?
<pitti> soren: no, I don't
<gammy> seb128: Alright. So how does it actually work? Is there an ubuntu help page about it?
<seb128> read the code? ;-)
<seb128> or do you have a specific question
<seb128> it has mechanism to grant authorisation, what do you want to know exactly?
<gammy> My specific question would be: What does console-kit-daemon use libpolkit for and why is it not a dependency if it's required?
<soren> gammy: It's really not that complicated, usually, but when it is, people are likely to tell you where to ask instead. Contrary to what you seem to believe, that is actually a more useful answer than "I don't know".
<gammy> soren: People didn't tell me where to go. I asked about it and got elitist bullshit back instead. It took quite some time before anyone stopped saying "that's desktop-related" :P
<gammy> But I now of course understand that I should not be speaking in anything but #ubuntu since that's the help channel. I just wish someone would have told me that.
 * soren finds something better to do
<pitti> gammy: that's actually a known problem: bug 275432
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275432 in policykit "libpolkit requires files from policykit for polkit_context_init to work" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275432
<pitti> gammy: CK needs PK to verify that an user is able to shutdown/reboot the machine
 * gammy reads
<pitti> gammy: we actually complained very loudly upstream about this dependency, but they wouldn't listen :(
<pitti> so now every distro is sitting on this problem actually
<gammy> pitti: Ahh James Westbys notes are very interesting
<pitti> yeah, he analyzed it in detail
<gammy> Very interesting.
<seb128> lool: would be nice if you could comment on ubuntu changes when they go to ubuntu rather than waiting to get the update in debian to say that should be done some other way around ;-)
<lool> seb128: How do you suggest this to happen?
<lool> My proposal was to try to keep the Debian platform in sync
<seb128> lool: read -changes and when you see something which seems wrong write something on IRC?
<seb128> lool: right, we try to do that but can't block on debian or intrepid would still have GNOME 2.22 because the new gtk is not available
<lool> I don't expect I'll have more time to read -changes than I did past cycle; nor do I find this a good channel to spot such changes
<seb128> ok, I though you were reading the -changes lists
<lool> I do
<lool> Not in full
<seb128> well I though you would read the changelog when a new gtk is landing for example
<lool> I don't  :-(
<seb128> especially when you said you would look at it for the fileselector changes and hildon
<seb128> I guess there is no easy way to avoid such situations then
<lool> You mean hildon-fm support stuff?  We dropped that completely, it was unportable
<seb128> right, I just know I pinged you when I did the gtk update because the fileselector changes where breaking some patches mobile was using
<lool> I think that's quite orthogonal to the issue at hand
<seb128> anyway we will probably sync debian changes if the package goes a different way there
<seb128> right, I just assumed you did look at this GTK update for some reason
<lool> I'd love to be able to read the whole changes of all packages I care about, but the tempo is just too high for the time I have; would I be still in the desktop or foundations team, I might have a stronger incentive to track this closer
<seb128> right, I know the issue
<seb128> and I'm too busy to get new versions in debian first, especially when that requires directfb changes which I've no clue about
<seb128> so I guess we either have to do with such glitches
<lool> It's unfortunate that Debian and Ubuntu diverge on package names, but the only way to avoid it for sure is to make sure the changes are accepted in Debian and Ubuntu; I don't have a better idea for this
<seb128> or just stop trying to be sync if that's wasting energy rather than being useful
<lool> seb128: One point of contention is usually regressions
<lool> seb128: I know that I'm not going to upload a package with serious regressions to Debian
<lool> While in Ubuntu we might just live with them for parts of the cycle hoping they are fixed before the end of the cycle
<seb128> right
<lool> Another issue is that the Ubuntu packaging changes are only visible to Ubuntu people the way we currently do
<lool> I think you experimented with keeping control-center in bzr this cycle?
<seb128> mvo put a bunch of desktop packages in bzr
<lool> Would the Ubuntu packaging be "near" the Debian one in terms of VCS, it would expose such issues more evidently too
<seb128> gnome-control-center being one of those
<lool> seb128: How did it go?
<seb128> smoothly
<seb128> I don't think it brings anything really useful but it doesn't cost a lot either
<seb128> bzr-builddeb works correctly nowadays
<seb128> it would be nice if we had a way to announce commits on IRC for example though
<lool> (Unfortunately in this case, bzr is a divergence between Debian and Ubuntu, but a DVCS could help solve part of the problem)
<lool> Np237 seems to hate the DVCS concept
<lool> Or having a repo per module
<mvo> vcs++
<lool> seb128: So if we could share packaging between Debian and Ubuntu in terms of tools, it would help getting the changes reviewed as they occur IMO, and not only by me; but it's not an easy task
<seb128> I'm coming forth and back on those
<seb128> dvcs have advantages but for packaging that's pointless since usually your changes are a few liners and that complicates things
<mvo> having a source tree where we would have the upstream tarball imported in a tree, and two packaging branches (debian, ubuntu) would be really cool
<mvo> with the ability to do merges between debian and ubuntu
<lool> mvo: Ack
<mvo> I know that seb128 does not see a lot of benefit, but for me just having bzr diff/revert is already a great help
<mvo> I also like that people can work on the package at the same time
<mvo> without having to fear clashes
<lool> mvo: I personally wouldn't want to push too early for this though; one thing which would be a strong incentive to move to dvcs would be GNOME moving to one of htem
<lool> mvo: Say, GNOME moves to git or bzr, I think it would make sense for Debian and Ubuntu to follow
<mvo> right
<mvo> git
<mvo> uuuuu
<seb128> that's mainly useful if you get the full source in the dcvs then and not only the debian directory
<seb128> mvo: right, when I do a typo in the "new upstream version" changlog entry I find bzr revert useful too ;-)
<mvo> heh :)
<lool> Let's not enter git versus bzr; I can live with both and I find both solve our actual top problems; the problems they cause are IMO lower priority
<seb128> mvo: joking but that's about the amount of changes we usually do
<lool> There's value in having the same as upstream
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> I agree, I think we shouldn't divert unless its totally transparent (which it will not be)
<mvo> I mean, if we had a bzr-git-import that that would be totally flawless
<seb128> mvo: and that doesn't avoid clashes if you don't push changes, and if you push you can as well upload
<lool> Apart of upstream moving to a DVCS, the two things which I'm looking after for Debian is: a) quality of the tools to do the job with mass-packages and b) importing pkg-gnome history
<lool> The tools for git and bzr packages are fine nowadays, except concerning mass actions
<lool> (We have 200+ packages in pkg-gnome!)
<lool> and more than 120 considered official platform/desktop stuff
<seb128> right
<mvo> seb128: well, a push usually has a much smaller amount of data and if its just a typo fix for example then why push it to every user and to the buidds etc. but yeah, I see your point
<seb128> mvo: anyway as said the workflow nowadays is basically as easy so there is no strong reason to no use a dvcs there
<seb128> it's just nice to have a consistant way to changes across the board
<seb128> or at least across the team board ;-)
<mvo> lool: hm, currently everything is maintained in svn, right? so where is e.g. bzr inferior to that?
<lool> mvo: You can checkout the whole tree of 120 desktop packages and work on them
<mvo> I see
<lool> mvo: I think bzr is superior, but it's a lot of work to import (and fix!) the history of the packages if we want to convert the single repo to many bzr repos
<lool> Also, I'm not sure I would want the packages to be in bzr if upstream moves to git
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> i am certainly liking bzr more than git
<dobey> you should be more active upstream and push to use bzr
<dobey> :)
<lool> dobey: Step 1, being more active upstream, not being the easiest one
<lool> There's already a lot of traction to move to git upstream
<dobey> it's actually really easy
<lool> From xorg, and from cairo for instance
<mvo> and gtk+
<lool> GStreamer also had plans, but I'm lost in them
<dobey> yeah, because the fd.o types are using it already
<dobey> and bzr seems like this canonical-only thing because people aren't being as active upstream, and launchpad seems like this big closed source monster they can't get around
 * mvo -> phone
<Nafallo> http://galleri.vacum.se/index.php?dir=&page=&prev=gparted.png <-- known? :-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-07
<hammer> hello
<huats> morning everyone
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128
<seb128> pedro_: hi
<seb128> pedro_: dunno if you got my message before
<seb128> pedro_: rhythmbox not listing some devices can be bug #291810, ask those users to try the update
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291810 in rhythmbox "MSC music device doesn't appear after intrepid upgrade" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291810
<pedro_> hello seb128
<pedro_> ah no i didn't
<pedro_> seb128: ok will do it, thanks you
<seb128> you're welcome ;-)
<seb128> you have been faster than me to triage the new one
<pedro_> hehe ok already commented on the new one
<pitti> pochu: in the future, please use "LP: #" in changelogs, not "lp: #"; the former is recognized in dpkg for auto-closing bugs, the latter isn't
<pitti> pochu: it's okay for the pending SRUs, since I have to manually set the bug state anyway, but it matters for the development release
<hggdh> seb128, the proposed fix for evo is published in the PPA
<seb128> hggdh: thanks
<seb128> hggdh: any user reply yet? they rolled also new tarballs today, do you know if those changes are in the new version?
<ember_> what's the best pratice in a package using debhelper and i want so simply change an <include>? add patch system or patch it inline?
<hggdh> seb128, I do not know, but wil check. Since the patches are not marked as committed in the bug, I am not sure.
<hggdh> and no user reply so far
<seb128> hggdh: ok, I doubt they will in the new version anyway, srag said there was a new string
<hggdh> seb128, yes, the text changed in a message
<seb128> ok, so in the new stable
<seb128> we will likely do the new version update next week
<hggdh> k
<seb128> let's see if some users comment about the patches before that in which case we can use those too
<hggdh> yes... right now I do not know if it is working... the other one seems to still have a problem
<alexbh> hallo... does anybody speak english here?
<BugMaN> hmmm maybe all of us :)
<Nafallo> the desktop team mostly speaks french :-)
<pochu> pitti: the case doesn't matter... the problem is that I used Debian's dpkg to generate the changes file, so it didn't generate Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed field in the changes file. Anyway, thanks for the notice, I'll avoid that in the future :)
<BugMaN> Nafallo: :)
<pitti> pochu: ah :)
<pochu> pitti: thanks for approving them btw :)
<alexbh> ohh gut.... i just dont tknow which channel to use... i m not german... just came to Germany a month ago and need to buy a Web camera... but I dont kow which one can work in my ubuntu
<BugMaN> alexbh: for this tyr to ask on #ubuntu
<alexbh> ohhh..i m so stupid.. i though this was the DE - german chanel sorry
<BugMaN> alexbh: official support channel
<BugMaN> de = desktop :)
<BugMaN> alexbh: maybe exists #ubuntu-de
<alexbh> yeah... i did but they seem not to understand
<alexbh> im there also...
<fta> seb128: forgot to pass this to you: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cairo/ this is for jaunty.
<seb128> fta: I've stopped working for today but ping me again next week, debian has 1.8.2 could be worth looking if it can be synced and do a 1.8.2-0ubuntu1 sru to intrepid
<ember> pochu: there?
<pochu> hi ember :)
<pochu> (yes) ;)
<ember> consider adding this on new liferea upload
<ember> http://pfragoso.org/ubuntu/02_lpi
<ember> hi :o
<ember> i've worked using the 1.4.20 in your ppa
<pochu> cool
<pochu> I plan to get 1.5.x into Jaunty when it gets a bit better
<pochu> right now it's a bit unresponsive at some times
<pochu> when that's fixed I'll get it uploaded
<pochu> but I think I'll prepare 1.4.22 (once it's released)
<pochu> ember: I'll look at your patch when I do so :)
<ember> cool, it should work for the 1.4.x
<Laney> What's that page norsetto made listing all the apps that the desktop team takes care of and their versions in various places?
<pochu> Laney: http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php
<Laney> winner
<ember_> btw norsetto should update that for 2.25
<Laney> Can I do the gnome-games 2.24.1.1 update?
<Laney> I guess there should be one tracking each supported/development ubuntu release
<dobey> ember_: looks like it already is? glib 2.19.0 is listed...
<ember> ye glib it is but the rest is not 2.25.x ones
<dobey> there hasn't been a 2.25.x release yet
<dobey> i think glib is probably the only thing that's made a release so far
<ember> ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/releng/2.25.1/versions
<dobey> oh. was this week. i didn't even know it was scheduled yet
<dobey> which explains why none of my things have 2.25.1 releases there
<ember> and http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2008-November/msg00023.html
<dobey> yeah
<Laney> Will I need to get gnome-games 2.24.1.1 into Jaunty given that 2.25.1 is already out?
<pochu> Laney: I don't think so, you can directly prepare 2.25.1
<Laney> pochu: I mean for the Intrepid SRU
<Laney> (we track GNOME stable releases, right?)
<Laney> (or at least we want this one as it fixes a crasher)
<pochu> Laney: you can upload 2.25.1 to Jaunty and 2.24.1.1 to Intrepid
<Laney> thanks, that's what I wanted to know
<pochu> no need to get 2.24.1.1 into Jaunty if you get 2.25.1
<Laney> I read that it has to be fixed in the dev release first
<Laney> but that seems silly in this case
<pochu> well yeah, it has to be fixed in the devel release
<pochu> but 2.25.1 should include fixes in 2.24.1.1
<Laney> right
<Laney> so it doesn't have to be explicitly fixed in the same way
<pochu> yeah
<ronhalfdanr> anybody home
<Laney> bah
<Laney> How can I get autoconf to only update the configure script, not the various makefile.ins
<pochu> Laney: did you run autoconf or autoreconf?
<pochu> Laney: 'autoconf -f && rm -r autom4te.cache' should do that
<Laney> pochu: autoconf
<pochu> I don't think autoconf calls automake...
<Laney> Something else is then
<Laney> oh, never mind.
<mvo_> laney: please check "rmadison gnome-terminal" - 2.24.1.1 is in jaunty and intrepid-proposed now
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-08
<chandraneelnr> well i have a dial-up modem. i have used scanmodem and configured the modem. But when i do sudo wvdial, it shows 'not a valid phone usrname and password'. Although the usrname etc. work well in windows and 8.04 but cannot do it in 8.10  In 8.04 there is an option for network configuration where one is supposed to enter details such as target number, username, password but no such option exits in 8.10
<ottoshmidt> does your webcam work well on 8.10 intrepid?
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-11-09
<karlrhs> help anyone power out during upgrade to ibex.
<karlrhs> gui not showing upgrade as an option.
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-02
<cyphermox> RenatoSilva: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth#Why%20is%20the%20default%20desktop%20in%20Ubuntu%20BROWN? for you answer about brown. Essentially, it has to do about being comforting... I guess it could also be argued that kind of like orange, it's supposed to help with productivity, IIRC.
<RenatoSilva> Just read that before you pasted
<cyphermox> as for GDM, I think you're supposed to be able to change the colors and wallpaper and everything by changing the theme for the 'gdm' user.
<cyphermox> kind of late, yes :)
<RenatoSilva> can't find any gdm customization option anymore
<RenatoSilva> the gdm options were totally reduced to a single option of automatically loggin in
 * RenatoSilva can't get rid ot the brown login screen
<cyphermox> RenatoSilva, this is because gdm has been pretty much been rewritten
<cyphermox> I haven't tried personally, but perhaps if you look at this page, it explains how to do the customizations now : http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/hack-karmics-gdm-login-screen.html
<kklimonda> cyphermox, frankly It's not a real answer - users don't care about it being rewritten, just about not being able to configure it as before.. I've had a discussion about it today... and yesterday.. and few days ago..
<lifeless> so, file a bug, wishlist, with the configuration you want to be able to make - and *why*.
<kklimonda> lifeless, so the current gdmsetup is considered done?
<lifeless> kklimonda: I don't know.
<lifeless> But I don't recall hearing about any major planned work.
<ajmitch> kklimonda: 'done' for karmic, I'm hoping that something happens to it for lucid :)
<RenatoSilva> Well I guess that the answer to *why* is pretty obvious
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: no, its not.
<RenatoSilva> for you it seems
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: if it was obvious, I would know. I don't, so its not obvious enough that I know; and I'm fairly representative of Ubuntu developers, I think.
<RenatoSilva> lifeless: system > admin > login screen. Before karmic it was full of options that *users* were using. In Karmic, they all were reduced to a single one. Users of those options like me will obviously miss them
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: thats not a reason to have the options
<lifeless> RenatoSilva: what value did they offer, was it worth the cost of the options - both code and confusion for other users
<lifeless> etc
<kklimonda> lifeless, the most common complain I remember was that in 9.10 there is a list of users instead of simple dialog for usename
<lifeless> kklimonda: there is 'other', where you can type in the username
<kklimonda> then the inability to change background
<kklimonda> lifeless, sure - but they don't want list at all
<lifeless> kklimonda: You don't need to convince me, you need to make the case, either in a bug or on the list
<cyphermox> RenatoSilva, at the very least this gives (I think) an opportunity to clean up the GDM config. and make it better.. hence why if you open a bug and explain which things you would like to be able to customize it would be immensely useful for developers to make them available if they are often requested
<kklimonda> lifeless, I'm against it
<kklimonda> ;)
<RenatoSilva> kklimonda: particulary, I don't want some users to be displayed there
<cyphermox> kkilmonda, how you can change the background: see above for my link :)
<kklimonda> but I've dealt with a lot of complains in the last few days about it
<kklimonda> cyphermox, I know how to change it, I even believe that the gdmsetup isn't needed. But other users don't think like that and I've run out of arguments to defend the current gdmsetup ;)
<RenatoSilva> I wonder wherer my gdm theme is still in the system, but unused
<RenatoSilva> * whether
<RenatoSilva> the original way or simpler, I think it should allow customization of the login screen, at least because of the brown color
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, why?
<RenatoSilva> how can you tell a user if he does not like the brown thing he can "change it easily" when in fact the login screen will still keep brown?
 * RenatoSilva is a sample user
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, but it's still an option - just not though the gui
<cyphermox> RenatoSilva, if the way to customize the GDM look was to show up the usual gnome-appearance-properties GUI when you click a button, would that make you more comfortable?
<RenatoSilva> kklimonda: remember that ubuntu is form humam beings
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, the question is how much customization is "enough" for human beings and where should we draw the line
<RenatoSilva> my point is: don't tell the user he can get rid of the brown when in fact he can't (the "human" users)
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, do we tell that?
<kklimonda> (seriously, I don't keep tabs on visual side of development :) )
 * kklimonda don't even change wallpaper
<RenatoSilva> when the user is chaning the theme in gnome-appearance-properties , he's not changing some specific techincal details about the ui. He just wants to change "the look", and that's abstract. So the login screen should be included in the "change look" option, whatever it is (gnome-appearance-properties or another application/meny)
<RenatoSilva> * menu
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, but he's changing the look for the logged in user
<RenatoSilva> I believe regular users may not be aware of that, I believe often they just want to get rid of the brown
<RenatoSilva> and ubuntu should allow getting rid of the brown
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, what I have in mind is that users really dedicated to changing the looks of their system are going to dig as deep as needed (based on amount of work needed to change various visual settings in Windows) and the rest won't care enough... I know, "Linux is about customization" but I don't believe this slogan (just like "Linux runs on any hardware")
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, the question is - Do we have enough data to support the thesis "the just want to get rid of the brown"
<kklimonda> they*
<RenatoSilva> anyhow, I think it was not good to remove gdm customization *completely*
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, it's still there - just not though cluttered user interface
<ajmitch> for the majority of people, it may as well be removed
<JanC> RenatoSilva: it wasn't removed, nobody ever wrote it for the completely new gdm
<ajmitch> it's certainly not obvious how to change it
<JanC> but of course, that's not how users think about it  ;)
<kklimonda> ajmitch, give uf.o few days and they will create a script that does it for users ;)
<RenatoSilva> JanC: customization of the login screen was removed completely
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, it wasn't ported
<ajmitch> JanC: how many users would know or care that gdm had been rewritten? :)
<RenatoSilva> JanC: not easily available if you prefer
<kklimonda> RenatoSilva, the new gdm is more or less complete rewrite of the old gdm and gdmsetup just wasn't rewritten
<JanC> I think it would be best to add a tab to the "appearances" dialog (only visible for users of group admin) to customize some basic things
<RenatoSilva> JanC: that's a nice idea
<cyphermox> as I mentioned earlier, just throwing this in the air in case: would it make people feel more comfortable with customizing the GDM look and feel if there was a button in the new gdmsetup, for example, to start a gnome-appearance-properties instance as the gdm user? ;)
<JanC> cyphermox: that dialog has too many options that aren't useful in the context of gdm
<ajmitch> cyphermox: it'd help, though it'd need to be trimmed down a lot to not confuse
<kklimonda> cyphermox, I don't like it - looks like a hack
<cyphermox> ajmitch, totally agree that there's too much stuff there though
<RenatoSilva> why can't we just run the old version of gdm setup without those steps mentioned in the article?
<lifeless> gdm was replaced
<lifeless> its not the old gdm
<lifeless> nothing was deliberately *removed*, it just was not *added back in*
<ajmitch> the old version of gdm doesn't do the xsplash stuff & various bits & pieces
 * ajmitch doesn't really follow along with what happens in the boot process, so can't say what those bits are
 * RenatoSilva didn't understand that article, will the steps make the old gdm options appear somehow?
<JanC> RenatoSilva: no, it shows the "Appearances" dialog for the gdm user, as the new GDM uses standard GNOME/Gtk theming now
<JanC> so no more separate theme format etc.
<RenatoSilva> JanC: and does the "Appearances" dialog allow all the same options from the old gdm options?
<JanC> it's only about the visual properties, and it's a "hack" (not really meant for Joe Enduser) anyway
 * RenatoSilva still does not understand
<JanC> RenatoSilva: it's exactly the same as the "appearances" dialog for your own user
<RenatoSilva> let me try, be right back
<RenatoSilva> hi all
<RenatoSilva> JanC: better than nothing, we still get the brown background
<Amaranth> You actually can't change much of gdm anymore
<Amaranth> It's got a gnome-panel with applets on it, a background image, and a GTK+ widget showing the user list
<Amaranth> It's not technically possible to do much to it outside of changing the GTK+ theme
<RenatoSilva> I wonder if I can remove the user list, and change the nbackground somehow
<Amaranth> sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gconf-editor
<Amaranth> there is something in there for removing the user list
<Amaranth> sudo -u gdm dbus-launch gnome-appearance-properties
<Amaranth> that'll let you change the background and gtk theme
<RenatoSilva> brb
<JanC> setting '/apps/gdm/simple-greeter/disable_user_list' to 'true' for user 'gdm' supposedly removes the user list
<RenatoSilva> thanks, brb
<RenatoSilva> what is dbus-daemon and why it is needed in the above commands Amaranth
<Amaranth> RenatoSilva: dbus-launch
<RenatoSilva> sorry, dbus-launch
<Amaranth> and it makes sure gconfd-2 gets launched for the gdm user so you can actually edit settings
<RenatoSilva> brb
<JanC> Amaranth: unfortunately, it also loads other stuff that you don't need, and doesn't unload anything--at least, last time I tried...  ;-)
<FuRom1> Is it possible to convert ubuntu desktop to the netbook remix version without having to format and everything?
<RenatoSilva> the option in gconf-editor is not saved when you exit the app
<RenatoSilva> and you can change the background, but the default one is shown after logging in, as a splash screen
<RenatoSilva> I suggest adding backgrund change (including the spash screen) and Gnome theme change in the appearance preferences
<RenatoSilva> maybe, when you select a user theme and you have admin rights, then there should be a check box like "apply this theme also for the login screen"
<Amaranth> That wouldn't be good, the gdm theme needs special consideration
<RenatoSilva> that which
<Amaranth> and since the widget set is static you can do tricks in gtk themes that would break something in your normal desktop
<RenatoSilva> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ needs creating an account. No OpenID either :(
<RenatoSilva> anyway, something should change, the login screen should be considerably mutable
<JanC> RenatoSilva: if you have a Launchpad account, then you have an OpenID too
<RenatoSilva> of course, I mean brainstorm does not let you loggin in with that OpenID though
<JanC> huh?
<JanC> oh right, they use the QA logins IIRC
<RenatoSilva> weird!
<RenatoSilva> brainstorm x LP bugs and blue prints are weird you know
<RenatoSilva> s/e p/ep
<JanC> I think brainstorm was designed before LP had OpenID
<JanC> hopefully, a future version will implement it  ;)
<RenatoSilva> bug 470026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470026 in ubuntu "Users should be able to change the brown look of login screen in Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470026
<eboyjr> bug 470008 ... I want this in Karmic, but people are saying its too big of a fix :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470008 in gnome-control-center "The Custom option in "Visual Effects" tab of Appearance Preferences should be shown even if simple-ccsm is not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470008
<Amaranth> eboyjr: s/fix/change/
<Amaranth> It's not a bug, it's a feature request :P
<RenatoSilva> in LP, bugs can be feature requests (Wishlist importantce)
<Amaranth> RenatoSilva: Right but there is still a difference
<Amaranth> eboyjr: also you shouldn't confirm your own bugs
<RenatoSilva> eboyjr: a second person should instead
<RenatoSilva> eboyjr: so that developers can know that the bug is valid, because it was reproduced by more than one person
<eboyjr> Amaranth, Alright. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix should be changed to not say: Assign the bug to "Nobody", and the status to "Confirmed". At this point, seek out a developer to review your patch for inclusion in the next upload of the package.
 * RenatoSilva registered the bug 470053
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470053 in ubuntu "Option for disabling user list of login screen in Karmic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470053
<RenatoSilva> eboyjr: not sure, but isn't it about downgrading to confirmed status?
<eboyjr> iono
<RenatoSilva> gtg
<Amaranth> mvo: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amaranth/compiz/no_wrapper
<Amaranth> hi, btw :P
<mvo> hey Amaranth
<mvo> Amaranth: cool! let me have a look? have you measured how much startup time this buys us?
<Amaranth> mvo: hard to measure
<Amaranth> my startup times are inconsistent
 * mvo nod
<Amaranth> I know compiz starts faster even with a warm cache
<Amaranth> just eyeballing it
<mvo> nice and smaller than I thought
<Amaranth> yeah, compiz already does most of the checks
<mvo> sounds like the first branch to merge when lucid opens
<Amaranth> :)
<Amaranth> I think it actually does a better job of doing the texture checks too
<Amaranth> Should make sure we never see the white screen (improperly installed driver) or the black windows (texture larger than size limit)
<pitti> Good morning
<Amaranth> mvo: It also does a better job of telling you what went wrong because compiz is actually fairly detailed about things that make it fail :)
<mvo> Amaranth: sweet. do you think its stable enough to just stick into the compiz PPA ? a lot of people run this, it will ensure some testing/exporure
<pitti> mvo: did you follow the discussion with slangasek about bug 465619  ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 465619 in update-manager "apport enabled after a distribution upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/465619
<pitti> mvo: he uploaded a fix straight to -updates; could you merge this into the proposed branch and reupload?
<pitti> (with -v again, please)
<mvo> pitti: yes, I can do that
<pitti> thanks; accepting the -updates one then
<mvo> pitti: a proper fix is in trunk/ but the minimal one is sufficient
<mvo> pitti: thanks
<pitti> mvo: any idea how we can fix this for people who already upgraded?
<mvo> pitti: not a straightforward one, grep "enabling apport" /var/log/dist-upgrade/main.log is my best one currently
<pitti> I guess I'd need to upload a hack to apport to disable it in the conffile again
<mvo> pitti: if we want to be fancy, compare the debug timestamp to the mtime
<pitti> mvo: oh, that grep sounds good
<mvo> logging.debug("enabling apport")
<mvo> that is the exact line
<Amaranth> mvo: btw, if we clear out the blacklist for lucid compiz will only launch one shell (compiz-decorator)
<eboyjr> Amaranth, are you a compiz dev?
<Amaranth> eboyjr: yeah
<eboyjr> That's really cool
<huats> morning
<seb128> hey there
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> weird, when nautilus is running I only see the desktop wallpaper, not the panel and applications ...
<didrocks> hello seb128 :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<huats> hello seb128, baptistemm and didrocks
<seb128> lut huats
<seb128> hey slomo_ chrisccoulson njpatel
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<pitti> hey seb128, hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> had a nice weekend?
<seb128> hey pitti
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, a bit stressed by the number of ***** bug emails
<baptistemm> salut les frenchies
<seb128> got over a thousand of those during the weekend
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ouch, that's a lot ;)
<seb128> spent 2 hours yesterday and 2 hours saturday cleaning to not spend my day today on that
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i noticed you touched a few yesterday.
<sabdfl> seb128: karmic bug reports?
<seb128> sabdfl, new bugs or comment on existing bugs after karmic yes
<sabdfl> the firehose, huh
<chrisccoulson> i need to spend some more timing doing bug triage, but my weekend was already quite busy
<seb128> I wish we would spend the lucid cycle stabilizing things
<seb128> so many annoyed users by things that should be working and doesn't
 * pitti scares people with http://www.piware.de/2009/11/hello-ween/
<pitti> seb128: we plan to :)
<seb128> lol
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is it safe to click on from work? ;)
<seb128> pitti, I'm waiting for uds to see how much tractions we get for new features too
<chrisccoulson> (before i click on it with my boss hanging around)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's an halloween decoration
<mvo> safe-for-work
<seb128> hey mvo
<baptistemm> pitti, you'd have drawn a panda in the pumpkin :)
<seb128> had a good weekend?
<mvo> hey seb128!
<mvo> seb128: yes :)
<chrisccoulson> heh:)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes :)
<seb128> \o/ I managed to bring my bug email backlog to 0
<chrisccoulson> congrats seb128 :)
<seb128> ok, now time to start on some srus
<chrisccoulson> that was quick!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<huats> pitti, if you need any more informations for the usb stick bug do not hesitate :)
<pitti> huats: still catching up on over-weekend SRU and bug mail; I'll get to it
<pitti> huats: will probably faster to debug this on IRC
<huats> sure
<huats> (I mean do it when you ave time...)
<huats> I know you are not daydreaming :)
<huats> thanks already for the time you take pitti
<pitti> you're welcome, it seems to be a major issue
<huats> I fear that I am not the only one facing it...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, as said I spend 2 hours on saturday and 2 hours on synday
<seb128> sunday
<seb128> ie I was almost to 0 when I went to bed yesterday
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's still pretty impressive though ;)
<chrisccoulson> considering the amount of e-mails you get
<seb128> yeah, what is not impressive is the number of issues we have in the software we ship there
<seb128> and we being opensource not especially ubuntu
<seb128> we still have some way to go
<seb128> reading emails from the weekend, usb key mounting is broken for quite some users, the audio and video players are being crap and can't read youtube videos or dvd or do visualization or crossfading correctly
<seb128> the email client is not better, hanging when open files from emails
<seb128> or crashing when adding tasks or when pressing enter for some users
<seb128> quite some keyboard layout issues too
<seb128> evince is not able render or print correctly quite some pdf apparently
<seb128> *shrug*
 * mvo hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs mvo back
<mvo> I share your pain, u-m give bogus error messages when the upgrade mirror is overloaded :(
<pitti> seb128: a friend of mine upgraded as well and reported problems with policykit, pulseaudio, and docking station handling
<seb128> pulseaudio is a frequent complain too...
<seb128> and empathy has quite some issues
<seb128> anyway let's see the good side, we have one cycle to make what we have now solid
<seb128> I'm just going to fight hard against any new feature proposal at uds ;-)
<seb128> we really need to stop adding things this cycle and try to make what we have work
<pitti> +1
<pitti> but still I think it was good to squeeze it all into karmic
<Zdra> Hi. My mother is running ubuntu intrepid. When I run "update-manager -d" it suggest to upgrade to 9.04 and not 9.10. Is there a reason?
<pitti> I just wouldn't recommend everyone to upgrade; it's the Fedora of Ubuntu, after all
<pitti> Zdra: yes, we don't support upgrades with skipping releases
<pitti> Zdra: except LTS->LTS (e. g. 8.04 -> 10.04)
<Zdra> pitti, it worked on another laptop
<Zdra> I'm almost sure it was intrepid->karmic
<jmarsden> Zdra: Upgrade to 9.04, then upgrade that to 9.10.  You are not supposed to be able to upgrade from 8.10 to 9.10 directly.
<Zdra> Hm :/
<Zdra> I think I'll make a clean install then
<seb128> pitti, you might want to reopen bug #463347
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347
 * seb128 closes another 2 duplicates of this one
<mvo> seb128: have you seen something like bug #469399 before ? see comment #4 gtk-update-icon-cache fails with undefinied symbol g_mapped_file_unref
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 469399 in update-manager "Could not install 'gnome-accessibility-themes' & 'gnome-themes-more'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469399
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug 470433 seems to be another issue with not correctly detecting the filesystem type
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 470433 in gvfs "no usb automount in Karmic Koala (dup-of: 463347)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/470433
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347
<seb128> mvo, ldd `which gtk-update-icon-cache`
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, see what I just wrote, same for bug #463347
<seb128> ups bug #/469722
<seb128> gnagnagna
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i just noticed you touched that one ;)
<seb128> bug #469722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 469722 in nautilus "Karmic Koala does not automount usb devices (dup-of: 463347)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463347 in udev "Usb Media not automaticaly mounted" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463347
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well the first bug was the one I just pointed
<mvo> seb128: you assume some old stuff in /usr/local  ? I will followup with that
<seb128> I asked the submitter to use ubuntu-bug and use the symptom based filing
<seb128> mvo, either that or gtk updated before glib but that should not happens with the correct depends right?
<seb128> mvo, it basically means the glib version seems too old
<seb128> those issues are usually local installs
<mvo> seb128: yeah, thanks
<seb128> hey pedro_
<pedro_> salut seb128
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<pedro_> seb128, good, thanks, what about you? how was that long weekend?
<seb128> pedro_, quite good thanks, though I spent some daily hours triaging bugs
<seb128> got over a thousand email and I didn't want to have a depressing monday doing triaging only
<seb128> pedro_, what about you?
<pedro_> seb128, ah yeah noticed that on Friday :-P
<pedro_> seb128, was good and quiet this time :-)
<seb128> excellent
<seb128> oh, ubuntu open week this week
<seb128> see reading dholbach on facebook has some use ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, have you seen bug 448153 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448153 in nautilus "Folder settings (metadata) lost after upgrade" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448153
 * pedro_ being nudge by gpoo about that
<seb128> pedro_, yes, I will do srus this afternoon
<pedro_> \o/!
<seb128> it show how much we don't test upgrades
<seb128> well we test mechanic updates
<seb128> but not that user settings, configs etc are handled as they should
<seb128> hum
<seb128> how do we deal with user cleaning on uninstall breaking due to running softwares?
<seb128> ie gdm uninstall can break because the gdm user has an active session
<pitti> I don't remember that we ever did that
<seb128> pitti, that being?
<pitti> doing any particular check whether an app is running for package removal
<seb128> well the thing is that the maintainer script is failing right now
<pitti> if gdm is still running?
<pitti> that sounds correct to me?
<seb128> ok, that was my question is some sort
<seb128> users should be stopping gdm before uninstalling it
<tseliot> seb128: does gdm start X? If so, in which file? I'm seeing this root      1040  0.9  0.8  14584  8184 tty7     Ss+  12:50   0:01 /usr/bin/X :0 -br -verbose -auth /var/run/gdm/auth-for-gdm-H9rYlX/database -nolisten tcp vt7
<seb128> yes gdm does start X
<seb128> what do you mean by in which file?
<tseliot> in the source code of gdm
<seb128> dunno
<tseliot> I need to change this command: /usr/bin/X :0 -br -verbose
<seb128> why?
<tseliot> into /usr/bin/X :0 -nr -verbose
<tseliot> I'm working on a smooth boot process for Lucid
<tseliot> and the -nr option allows X to create a root window with no background
<seb128> daemon/gdm-server.c:                argv[len++] = g_strdup ("-nolisten");
<seb128> gdm_server_init (GdmServer *server)
<seb128>         server->priv->command = g_strdup (X_SERVER " -br -verbose");
<seb128> tseliot, ^
<tseliot> seb128: perfect. Thanks a lot :-)
<seb128> you're welcome!
<fredp> mvo: fyi http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/packagekit/2009-November/005453.html
<fredp> seb128: ^^^ in the gnome-packagekit bits, are there some useful to ubuntu?
<baptistemm> seb128, one question, would you have an item called "SystÃ¨me de fichiers ..." on your nautilus sidebar ? (I have a problem specically setting an emblem on)
<baptistemm> or any frenchy around, I would need to reproduce something
<chrisccoulson1> hello baptistemm
<baptistemm> hi chrisccoulson
<baptistemm> hi chrisccoulson1 rather
<chrisccoulson1> heh, my name keeps changing because of my unreliable connection ;)
<chrisccoulson1> how are you?
<baptistemm> fine, not a lot of thing to do at job, I'm a bit bored
<chrisccoulson1> i feel the same actually ;)
<chrisccoulson1> it means i have plenty of time to perfect my CV though!
<baptistemm> but as I just arrived I feel unconforable to do something else than the job I have to do
<baptistemm> (ie; doing some gnome or ubuntu things)
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, i know the feeling ;)
<baptistemm> hopefully now I work in a OSS environment
<chrisccoulson1> what job do you do?
<baptistemm> I'm a contractor for Orange
<baptistemm> for the web portal
<pitti> huats: hey! got some minutes to debug your usb key?
<chrisccoulson1> excellent, that sounds interesting
<baptistemm> complex architecture but I just managed the front part (the one that use the user)
<baptistemm> s/ed/e/
<huats> pitti, always !
<seb128> baptistemm, yes there is a filesystem entry in nautilus disks for several cycles
<baptistemm> seb128, once you've mounted it, could you try to set an emblem on it?
<seb128> baptistemm, there is no way to unmount it, it's your linux install
<seb128> ie your ubuntu disk
<baptistemm> ah sorry I wasn't clear enought
<baptistemm> I mean't an additional volume
<seb128> no
<baptistemm> each time I try to set an emblem on the icon on the desktop of the volume I see the message "Erreur GConfÂ : Le texte contient de l'UTF-8 non valide" in .xsession-errors
<seb128> fredp, I still have difficulties to understand what packagekit-gnome is
<seb128> fredp, I will let mvo comment on that
<fredp> seb128: there is a bunch of stuff in there, some might be useful (such as helpers to install a package handling a given mime type) but others are more full fledged applications
<seb128> baptistemm, same here
<seb128> fredp, how would those benefit GNOME?
<seb128> fredp, as said the other day I think what we should have is a set of API apps can use
<baptistemm> seb128, okay nice to know I'm not alone :)
<fredp> seb128: I believe they act as small wrappers around dbus calls to packagekit; at the moment applications have to do the dbus call by themselves
<seb128> that's probably useful to have
<seb128> mvo, ^
<fredp> from a gnome point of view we need known points that applications can use, be it a dbus api, or helper binaries
<fredp> (I only had a quick look at what is being done as "packagekit support" in nautilus and file roller)
<baptistemm> seb128, I can open a bug if you want, but I don't know what and where it fails
<baptistemm> I tried to create a foler with Ã¨ in the name and it workds fine
<seb128> baptistemm, if you open one open a GNOME bug ;-)
<baptistemm> :)
<mpt> mvo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Package%20icon,%20title,%20summary,%20and%20description (in case you hadn't found it already)
<mvo> fredp: hm, afaik there is the session dbus api for that, that is provided by the packagekit update applet
<mvo> fredp: the trouble is that we have a applet like this already so we would have to do some work on making the PK one invisible (or merging the functionatliy from ours into the PK one)
<mvo> fredp: we will have a bigger discussion about PK and ubuntu 10.04 at UDS, if the debconf problem can be solved (and everything looks good) there is no conceptual reason for us anymore not to use it. then it just becomes a lot of work to adjust our tools
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<mvo> fredp: when is the deadline for the 2.30 discussion?
<rickspencer3> hi seb128
<fredp> mvo: the module discussion happened on Sunday; and we were not really sure about packagekit, hence the mail to the list.
<mvo> how will it work, is there voting? or will the release team make a decision at some point based on the feedback?
<fredp> mvo: the release team decides
 * mvo nods
<fredp> at the moment distributions (not just ubuntu) are mostly using their own tools; sometimes combining them with a few of the packagekit ones
<fredp> but (especially if the debconf issue is solved) it looks like everybody is fine converging to packagekit, backend wise.
<mclasen> now, if some other distros were starting to contribute to the packagekit tools...
<fredp> just like it was proposed earlier for the status icon :)
<fredp> everybody would love it :)
<mvo> mclasen: there has been a misunderstanding of some sort in the past, the debconf issue was interpreted as a policy decision (hughsies law in the faq), that is why ubuntu/debian was so hesitant with it
 * kenvandine wishes he had noticed his laptop was failing to suspend before we released karmic
<tseliot> seb128: do you know what file specifies the parameters (e.g. --display-id) that are passed to gdm?
<hggdh> seb128: re bug 460710 -- can I propose a SRU for it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460710 in evolution "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710
<seb128> hggdh, hey, what change is that?
<seb128> tseliot, to what process?
<tseliot> seb128: /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-simple-slave --display-id /org/gnome/DisplayManager/Display1
<tseliot> I need to pass an additional option
<hggdh> seb128: murrine (and, it seems, clearlooks) both can be set to draw a rectangle with height=0 -- which causes a loop where all memory is allocated
<hggdh> seb128: *how* this is driven from Evo is still unknown, but the fix adds an assertion to block it from happening
<hggdh> I cannot reproduce, so far
<baptistemm> tseliot, the display seems to be passed by a previous dbus query
<baptistemm>  /org/gnome/DisplayManager/Display1 seems to be a dbus "path" (not sure about the accurate word)
<seb128> tseliot, not sure about this one
<seb128> hggdh, if you have a debdiff let me know I can sponsor it as a sru
<tseliot> baptistemm: ok but I'm trying to pass an additional argument such as --force-active-vt
<tseliot> seb128: ok, thanks anyway
<hggdh> seb128: ok, will prepare one
<seb128> hggdh, it's not the same issue than bug #393534?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393534 in gtk+2.0 "gtkiconview issue, evolution chockes when attaching files sometimes" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393534
<hggdh> seb128: hum.
<seb128> hggdh, it's worth asking users to try the gtk update
<hggdh> seb128: *might* be. This would fix GTK *before* drawing, while on 460710 we are just blocking an invalid call
<hggdh> but will ask them to try
<seb128> hggdh, in any case I'm fine sponsoring those theme fix as sru
<seb128> hggdh, there seem to be quite some bugs about new task crashing evolution
<seb128> hggdh, there seem to be quite some bugs about new task crashing evolution, do you know if it's being worked?
<hggdh> seb128: you mean the eds crashes we have been having?
<hggdh> do you have one bug # as a sample?
<seb128> hggdh, no, the "crash when pressing enter in a task"
<seb128> you forwarded it to bugzilla.gnome.org
<hggdh> oh, OK, yes, easy to reproduce
<hggdh> on memo
<seb128> it's getting quite some duplicates
<seb128> did you point upstream guys to it yet?
<hggdh> I will look at it, and see if either I or upstream can come up with a fix
<seb128> thanks
<hggdh> no, I just opened it upstream, and then got busy elsewhere. I will follow it up
<seb128> hggdh, thanks
<RenatoSilva> what is the so-called upstream exactly?
<seb128> RenatoSilva, the people writing the software
<RenatoSilva> so when people say the bug was reported upstream, it's because it was reported to the source developers, using the source bug tracker, right
<RenatoSilva> I was thinking about it, sabdfl said once that collaboration between projects is more important than binary compatibility. I wonder how is the work of ubuntu developers regarding this
<hggdh> RenatoSilva: correct
<hggdh> RenatoSilva: most of the time we do not have either the expertise or time available to fix it; anyways, it does not help the FLOSS community to just fix it locally
<hggdh> so we report it to the developers (upstream), and -- if we found a fix -- we also report the fix
<hggdh> end result is everybody benefits (and we can keep our delta from upstream to a minimum)
<RenatoSilva> I mean, when you want to change ubuntu, do you create customizations for the used projects, or do you work together with the 'upstream' to get new features there and then integrate the changes into ubuntu?
<hggdh> ideally we integrate with upstream
<RenatoSilva> I mean, the work of creating a distro is picking up software out there, bundling all of them together, unless you want to change the software, in which case it'd be better to do it in the upstream if your feature is worth or if you have a bug.
<huats> pitti, the various reports on the bug I have opened seems quite encouraging !
<hggdh> RenatoSilva: yes indeed. Sometimes we will carry our own changes out of upstream (due to specific localisations on Ubuntu, or because the fix is critical, or whatever
<RenatoSilva> hggdh: what is the overall "percentage of success" in working with upstream? like, ~80% of the time you get success or what. And what is the overall percentage of commit rights ubuntu developers have in the other projects?
<seb128> RenatoSilva, those are not easy metrics since it depends of the project, some are actively worked some other not
<hggdh> and it depends mostly on how good are the individual's relations with upstream
<seb128> you also don't need commit right, upstream are usually happy to commit changes for you
<hggdh> but -- at least from my own petite contact with upstream -- I usually can get it done/accepted/discussed
<hggdh> and, as Seb points out, I do not have commit rights upstream,
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I'm not saying you need, I'm curious about how many ubuntu developers are actually upstream developers
<seb128> to an open source project? a good part
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I know it's not easy to get a number, I was more like the percentage according to your feeling
<seb128> but could be things which are totally different from their distro work there
<RenatoSilva> seb128: like 1/5, or 9/10 etc
<seb128> no idea, depends of what you call ubuntu developers
<seb128> just packages, distro team, desktop team, bug triager, translators
<RenatoSilva> seb128: good part == most of them?
<seb128> depends of the category of people you consider
<mac_v> RenatoSilva: notify-osd , messaging menu is upstream developement and is from canonical
<seb128> translators are not hackers
<seb128> it's one example
<RenatoSilva> seb128: developers == people that write actual code
<seb128> ubuntu is a distribution, most of the work is distributing code not writting it
<mac_v> RenatoSilva: those are to name a few , there are others developers who contribute to non-canonical upstream too , it is a thin line cant be easily defined ,,, the question is quite abstract
<seb128> ie testing, bug triaging, documentation, translation, packaging, etc
<seb128> ie testing, bug triaging, documentation, translation, packaging, etc
<seb128> ie testing, bug triaging, documentation, translation, packaging, etc
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> it's a whole ecosystem you can't really do easy stats
<seb128> the desktop team members have almost all commit rights to some upstream projects there but that's not a metric for how active they are on those either...
<RenatoSilva> mac_v: I know it's abstract, but the notion wheter it is 1/4 or 9/10 is kown to you I think. I have NO notion. Trying to know your process you know
<seb128> RenatoSilva, depends of the group of people you talk about
<RenatoSilva> seb128: that's what I wanted to know, so actual written code is just a samll bit of the development of ubuntu?
<seb128> the canonical desktop team has most of its member being upstream contributor to at least one open source project
<seb128> RenatoSilva, yes, there is some 15000 softwares in ubuntu we can't write all of that
<seb128> the team is like on hundred people
<seb128> one
<RenatoSilva> seb128: exclude translators, bug reporters and triaggers, testers, documentation etc
<seb128> the ubuntu distribution team is distributing software
<seb128> ie taking things writen by the community, putting those together, looking at bugs, fixing some, adding feature, etc
<seb128> we do test, participate to feedback, send fixes and new codes etc to lot of projects
<seb128> we are not main code writers for most though
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I don't mean write the softwares, I mean change them. Ubuntu is a popular distro just because you choose and package the softwares and work with upstream very well? Or there's also code writing to make ubuntu 'different' from the other distros? How much of code write? Most of the time or just a few times? That code is written directly in upstream or in forked versions in Ubuntu? That's what I mean....
<mac_v> RenatoSilva: there are no stats like that and can never be , because , if someone knows about the code they can contribute anywhere and any fix in Ubuntu almost always goes upstream too , so the desktop team contributes to upstream development too , but as seb128 said the initial project might not have started in Ubuntu
<seb128> RenatoSilva, not sure what you are aiming at though and if that replies to that questions
<seb128> RenatoSilva, ubuntu is mainly based on open source project, we do write most of the package management tools we use though
<seb128> RenatoSilva, and things like the installer
<seb128> the desktop is GNOME which is an opensource project with lot of companies and individuals contributing
<seb128> RenatoSilva, not sure what make ubuntu popular as a distro or if it has a higher popularity than some others, you should ask users about that
<seb128> RenatoSilva, the softwares used are mostly the same as in other distribution, the specific parts are package management and installer
<RenatoSilva> maxb: "any fix in Ubuntu almost always goes upstream too " ---> this answers one of my questions :)
<seb128> and then some bits like theme, settings, etc
<seb128> the ayatana team is aiming at improving user experience too and those are project maintained by canonical people
<RenatoSilva> seb128: we do write most of the package management tools we use though ---> humm
<seb128> ie notify-osd or the indicator message
<seb128> RenatoSilva, update-manager, gnome-app-install, software-center, software-properties, gdebi
<RenatoSilva> seb128: is there a list of ubuntu software for which canonical and/or ubuntu committers are the upstream?
<mac_v> RenatoSilva: upstart to improve the boot speed is also from Ubuntu
<seb128> RenatoSilva, I doubt so
<seb128> RenatoSilva, it's hard to define upstream, some project are made of contribution from lot of different people
<seb128> it's not easy to weight how much one contributor part count
<Ng> canonical has a page that lists its originated projects
<seb128> but the ubuntu distribution team focus is to integrate software and make it work fine for its users
<seb128> not to write new software
<pitti> seb128: we do have such a list somewhere
 * pitti -> dinner
<Ng> I just can't find it right now ;)
<seb128> jcastro might know
<RenatoSilva> seb128: by upstream I mean the main developers, the drivers of the project, the ones owning the home page, repository etc
<seb128> RenatoSilva, lot of project don't have a static upstream team
<RenatoSilva> but the ubuntu distribution team focus is to integrate software and make it work fine for its users, not to write new software ----> hummm
<seb128> the projects have infrastructures set and people working on those come and go
<RenatoSilva> seb128: don't have a static upstream team?
<seb128> some people work a year on something and stop for whatever reason, some stay
<seb128> yes, that's like any project or company
<seb128> people change job
<seb128> they get bored and want to do something else
<RenatoSilva> seb128: then they "give" the project to other people?
<seb128> they got busy in life and move to other things
<seb128> there is no strong project ownership
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I mean regarding companies
<seb128> it's just collection of contributions by people interested to get the thing working
<RenatoSilva> seb128: what software is from canonical (as the original or main driver, the one who maintain the project site, wiki, repo etc), and what is from community, that's what I meant
<jcastro> RenatoSilva, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Upstream
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I don't think companines abandon projects that often
<jcastro> note, that page needs alot of work
<seb128> RenatoSilva, right but most projects are not owned by a company
<seb128> RenatoSilva, they are community efforts, worked on my student, after hour hackers, etc
<seb128> my -> by
<seb128> or distribution people fixing issues they run into
<RenatoSilva> jcastro: thanks
<seb128> RenatoSilva, you know about wikipedia for example?
<seb128> RenatoSilva, who do you think is maintainer for wikipedia or own it?
<kklimonda> wikimedia foundation? ;)
<mac_v> ;)
<and471> mpt: hi
<RenatoSilva> seb128: not a company, I know that
<and471> mpt: would you be okay with having a fullscreen menu item in software centre?
<mpt> and471, hm, why?
<seb128> RenatoSilva, same for GNOME for example then
<RenatoSilva> seb128: so you write code for the package management tools like synaptic? but isn't this and other stuff like apt from debian community?
<and471> mpt: I just included one in my branch
<mpt> and471, it's not really the sort of program you want to spend ages in
<and471> mpt: meh, if it pleases one person, then I suppose it was worth it (or is that a bad design ethic?)
<seb128> RenatoSilva, apt and synaptic were written before ubuntu yes, the ubuntu team wrote update-notified, update-manager, gdebi, gnome-app-install, software-properties, software-center, etc
<mpt> and471, yes, it is. :-) For a movie player or a photo editor or a word processor, I could understand
<and471> mpt: so remove it?
<RenatoSilva> seb128: so you meant these new tools, not apt and synaptic whose mainstream is debina and for which you just collaborate
<mac_v> and471: hey ;)   indicator-messages
<seb128> RenatoSilva, apt and synaptic were there before ubuntu, why would have rewriten those scratch?
<mpt> and471, by "why" I meant "what sort of person would use it, and when"
<seb128> RenatoSilva, we based what we did on existing solutions yes
<seb128> RenatoSilva, those software I've listed have been written mostly by ubuntu people though
<and471> mac_v: ah thankyou :-)
<seb128> RenatoSilva, I'm still not sure what you try to figure there
<and471> mpt: I was just thinking whether maximus needs it to work
<seb128> RenatoSilva, our web browser is firefox which is made by the mozilla foundation for example
<and471> lool: does software centre behave corrected with maximus currently?
<seb128> RenatoSilva, it's not owned by any distribution
<RenatoSilva> seb128:  I just mean , you said canonical is the main maintainer for the package tools, then I wondered whether it has 'adodped' apt/synaptic from debian guys
<mpt> and471, njpatel is free to correct me, but I don't think maximus cares whether a particular application has a full-screen mode.
<mac_v> RenatoSilva: i think you caught seb128 in his free time or a really good mood  ;) ...
<RenatoSilva> seb128: You are answering my curiosity pretty well
<seb128> RenatoSilva, why would be want to take those project over? they already have a website, bug tracker, etc
<seb128> RenatoSilva, we contribute back where tehy are
<seb128> we don't aim at taking over other people work, that's not how opensource work
<seb128> if the project is already set and working we work together
<and471> mac_v: the icons aren't in that package (well not the humanity styled ones)
<and471> mac_v: does humanity ship them?
<mac_v> and471: the name is indicator-messages and it is in humanity
<and471> mac_v: ah sorry, I thought you meant the package name :-)
<mac_v> ;p
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: when there is a new message the indicator icon is still not obvious enough to indicate this change. maybe adding a small ball like in jaunty
<tgpraveen1> but in gray color
<tgpraveen1> for lucid
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: no ;)
<tgpraveen1> why?
<RenatoSilva> seb128: I just mean when you said "package tools", it soudned like apt/synaptic was included in them, but ok I've understood now
<Ng> mac_v: is it going to pulse tastefully? :)
<mac_v> Ng: that would be the only next step , >>> go against the HIG ;)
<RenatoSilva> mac_v: i think you caught seb128 in his free time or a really good mood ---> :)
<Ng> mac_v: it needs to do something :)
<seb128> lol
<RenatoSilva> ok guys thank you very very much for answering my curiosity
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: the notification is not to notify [though an oxymoron;) ], that would be the the job of the notify-osd or the app itself , to draw attention to the new event
<hggdh> RenatoSilva: welcome.
<mac_v> notificatio area*
<seb128> RenatoSilva, you're welcome
<Ng> mac_v: but it's an indicator applet. how can its job not be to indicate? ;)
<mac_v> lol ;)
<Ng> it's not a notification area item, it's a panel applet
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: was the suggestion that I gave discussed earlier and rejected. because I feel that it would draw attention better and not annoy
<tgpraveen1> and I get your point but it seems many people including me seem to be unsatisfied with current behaviour
<tgpraveen1> especially one can't see the change form a little distance or unless one actually very observantly tries to look for it
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: there was a bug even when there was a star used  , [human theme]
<tgpraveen1> a small ball or something though in gray colour so as to match the current theme would be nice
<Ng> tgpraveen1: a grey ball on a grey icon on a grey-ish panel? that seems like it wouldn't help
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: so even with star it wasnt' enough. further proves my point ;-)
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: yes, only blinking will do ;0
<tgpraveen1> well the grey icon of the envelope is darked
<and471> mac_v: instead of going against the design principle, could you not change the colour to something that is more distinguishable
<Ng> if it's supposed to indicate to the user that there are messages waiting it needs to do it a) prominently, b) persistently
<tgpraveen1> darker than the panel when new msgs come so it will be ok
<tgpraveen1> do it prominently not persistently
<tgpraveen1> that would annoy like blinking as mac_v said
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: we can make the no new sate lighter ;)
<mac_v> state*
<tgpraveen1> hmm maybe do both :-)
<Ng> tgpraveen1: if it's not persistent how will I notice new messages when I come back from making a drink?
<tgpraveen1> Ng: well when ever you leave pc and come back you have to check if there
<tgpraveen1> are new msgs
<tgpraveen1> that is how the indicator was designed for
<jcastro> rickspencer3, 15 minute courtesy warning!
<rickspencer3> jcastro, thanks, I'm ready
<tgpraveen1> the problem with too much persistency is that if a user is sitting at pc
<jcastro> Ng, you do what I do, check the thing over and over all day. :-/
<mac_v> and471: the indicator is just to indicate new events , but for an IM the app  needs to bring the new IM window forward , email == new snail mail so no need grab user attention ... imagine the icon is colored , then it would draw undue attention to the user who knows about the new message , but wants to do other work ,
<tgpraveen1> and working on say some doc an sees the notification and knows he will attend to it later
<tgpraveen1> then also if indicator is persistent then it will casue annoyance
<mac_v> then the icon would be a nuisance*
<tgpraveen1> anyways time to sleep. good night
<and471> mac_v: ah I see
<Ng> mac_v: what you're approximately saying is that the applet serves no purpose
<mac_v> Ng: on the contrary ;)    , the applet is just a supplement
<mac_v> the app needs to do the main work
<tgpraveen1> Ng: don't say that on ayatana channel ;-)
<Ng> mac_v: but the only useful thing it can do is tell you about new stuff, but you don't want it to do that in a way that draws attention. if I was going to go and specifically check that applet I would just flip to evolution and see bold folders
<tgpraveen1> Ng: the indicator app is there as 1.notification ysstem now has no action support 2. to act as a logger for events when user is not at his computer
<mac_v> Ng: traditionally we have been trained to view only the color changes , but are the two icons similar > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34598451/IM.png
<Ng> tgpraveen1: 1) is an interesting point - nothing uses it for that atm. 2) would mean it should only appear after coming out of idle/screensaver?
<Ng> mac_v: they're similar enough that you have to specifically look at the applet to know if it's trying to tell you something, and that's my fundemental problem. I don't want to have to think "hey do I have an IM/email/identica reply waiting for me"
<Ng> ime applets which appear when you have new email are hugely popular on all OSes
<mac_v> Ng: users even complained for the star icon when used for new ,mail > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28378360/Mail%20Icons.png and wanted to used red to grab more attention ;)
<Ng> mac_v: that red icon is *perfect*
<mac_v> Ng: why does a user ignore the notify-osd and rather depend on the panel icon ?
<Ng> mac_v: notify-osd is transient
<seb128> pitti, btw I pushed the nautilus sru for folder settings migration too if you want to accept it today still
<seb128> pitti, I should be done for the day almost time for sport
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<pitti> seb128: btw, for this I guess we need a small code patch to delete the stamp file?
<seb128> np, shame that we didn't notice this one before karmic though
<seb128> pitti, I'm not sure, do you want to overwrite changes made since the upgrade?
<seb128> I would rather let that choice to users
<pitti> tricky question
<seb128> because the conversion will copy previous settings back
<pitti> seb128: could you add some documenting sentence into the bug description how to force the migration?
 * pitti processes SRUs
<seb128> pitti, in the launchpad bug you mean? there is that in a comment bug I can update the description too yes
<mac_v> Ng: if the user is at the desk and misses it then the notify-osd isnt doing the job... it needs to notify better ... if the user is away and returns the icon is different[though you dont agree the change is too different]... but if the color is to be used , as i said earlier for the user who does not want to interact immediately it would be a nuisance :)
<pitti> seb128: yes; thanks
<and471> mac_v: hey you know skype might be open-sourced?
<seb128> pitti, thank you
<Ng> mac_v: no it wouldn't
<Ng> mac_v: that's a fallacious argument. I've witnessed people go months with the orange update-notifier icon visible in their panel on hardy. we took it out because a great big orange star isn't annoying enough
<mac_v> Ng: it would  , when the rest of the icons are not having a color then this will stick out :)
<Ng> mac_v: sorry, it wouldn't
<mac_v> Ng: even if it wouldnt... that[update-notifier] brings back that no amount of color or icons change is going to notfiy the user immediately unless the icon blinks ;)
<Ng> mac_v: I would notice it, which is good enough for me if blinking is really unthinkable
<mac_v> Ng: good enough for me isnt a good argument ;)
 * mac_v hides
<Ng> mac_v: I don't see anyone producing actual usability/annoyance studies on this, so we're all just throwing opinion around until it sticks
<and471> njpatel: and471, njpatel is free to correct me, but I don't think maximus cares whether a particular application has a full-screen mode.
<and471> ^ from mpt
<pitti> I'm off for the evening as well; still doing some debugging, then TKD
<pitti> cu tomorrow!
<seb128> same here
<seb128> bye pitti
<njpatel> and471: he's right, maximus will only maximise. It does have a fullscreening feature, but it's hardly used since jaunty
<and471> and471: so maximus doesn't require a fullscreen functionality?
<and471> njpatel: so maximus doesn't require a fullscreen functionality?
 * and471 needs to stop talking to himself
<njpatel> and471: lol, nope. At the moment, in karmic, it doesn't do anything at all for fullscreen...only maximising
<and471> njpatel: thankyou :-)
<njpatel> and471: the 'feature' was that you could assign a key, say the windows key, to toggle fullscreen on/off. You could then add .desktop files for maximus, so it knew which key combiniation to send (i.e. F11 for Firefox, but Ctrl+Alt+J for OpenOffice)
<njpatel> np
<and471> njpatel: does software-centre need to include one of them? or is it not worth it
<and471> and471: it doesn't hide much else in fullscreen
<njpatel> and471: nope, it desont
<njpatel> er, doesn't
<and471> njpatel: hehe thanks
<mac_v> Ng: actually i had proposed a better solution for this , make the indicator applet icon be more relevant to the new event , > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/indicator-applet/+spec/differentiate-notification
<mac_v> that way the user will be notified even quicker about the new event rather than just a generic icon for all types messaging
<mac_v> and471: lol! , how in the world do you manage to talk to yourself so many times ;p
<and471> mac_v:  I don't know, it is becoming an annoying habit ..
<and471> and471: isn't that right and471...
<and471> mvo: are you here, if so could you look at merging?
<and471> https://code.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-center/software-store-andrew
 * pwnguin just wants to point out that the mute icon in the default scheme is hard to distinguish from a full volume indicator
<pwnguin> i turned up my speaker volume before double checking the system wide volume. ouchie
<pwnguin> well, i guess it's somewhat different in shape, not just color. while i'd argue color would improve cognition speed, i can appreciate learning curve arguments, so i guess i'll live with it for a while and see how i acclimate
<bryce> is anyone else getting piles of bugs being filed via checkbox?
<kenvandine> bryce, not me
<bryce> kenvandine, it appears people are using the checkbox system test thingee as a cheap way to file complaints, but aren't really writing valid bug reports
<bryce> but I'm getting dozens a day, it's time consuming to go through and close them
<kenvandine> :/
<czajkowski> well there is something about logging bugs now and the way to do them on in -classroom so hopefully they'll get beter bryce
<kklimonda> bryce, how does checkbox bug look like? :)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, it has a checkbox tag normally
<chrisccoulson> (i think)
<bryce> tagged 'checkbox-bug'
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> i knew it was something like that ;)
<bryce> bug 455691 is an example of one which was filed against X
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 455691 in checkbox "a" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455691
<kklimonda> title: a, description: d :D
<chrisccoulson> bryce - how are X events mapped to X keysyms? (i know that's a bit of an open-ended question). I've just bought myself a new mouse, and it has some extra buttons which produce events in xev, but have no keysyms
<kklimonda> ah, I see now what checkbox actually is
<bryce> kklimonda, there's also some like bug 448913
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448913 in checkbox "." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448913
<bryce> most are > 1 char, but not by much
<Amaranth> bryce: I like your comment on that one :)
<bryce> chrisccoulson, xkeyboard-config
<mac_v> wow!
<Amaranth> they said '.', you said '?' :D
<kklimonda> bryce, I like your comment :D
<chrisccoulson> bryce - thanks:)
<mac_v> there seem to be several bugs with just '.' in the title o.0
<bryce> chrisccoulson, mouse button mappings might be a bit different, I don't remember.  You can use 'xinput' to fiddle the button mappings, and I think there's a gnome tool to configure what they actually do
<chrisccoulson> bryce - thanks, i'll take a look, and see if i can figure out how to map them
<bryce> mac_v, yeah what I think is happening is for however the system test thing is implemented, people either don't realize it's causing a bug report to be filed, or are assuming that the system test knows what's gone wrong better than them, so they don't need to provide a description
<chrisccoulson> if i figure it out then i could perhaps add it to gnome-mouse-properties and make it easier for other people too
<bryce> sounds good
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - "." in babelfish translates to "i couldn't be bothered to write a description"
<mac_v> bryce: all those bugs are from the same user, he might  have been testing
<bryce> mac_v, I *think* the test could be improved to do some automatic analysis so it does describe what the problem is, but it's far from doing that currently
<bryce> mac_v, ah that could be.  But there's a bunch from other users which are just one sentence descriptions, basically "something's broken"
<mac_v> yeah , those too
<bryce> I'm wondering if 'system test' should be done like apport, and turned OFF at release time
<chrisccoulson> yay, my extra mouse buttons are mapped \o/
<chrisccoulson> session inhibiting is such a mess in karmic :(
<chrisccoulson> bad totem
<bryce> chrisccoulson, excellent
<chrisccoulson> totem doesn't clean up inhibitors if you close it whilst playing a video
<chrisccoulson> so those inhibitors remain for the lifetime of the session, preventing the screensaver activating
<chrisccoulson> :(
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: gnome-session nukes inhibitors if the owner drops off the bus
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - it doesn't work for inhibitors that are proxied through gnome-screensaver
<chrisccoulson> gnome-session *thinks* that gnome-screensaver registered the inhibitor
<chrisccoulson> so they end up being leaked :(
<mclasen> that is possible
<mclasen> I think I asked about that specific issue when we ported totem over to use gnome-session
<mclasen> and was told that would be handled correctly :-(
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - it isn't being handled correctly at the moment
<chrisccoulson> i get an inhibitor leaked every time i watch a video
<chrisccoulson> i wonder why totem isn't cleaning these up anyway :-/
<seb128> hggdh, still around?
<hggdh> seb128: yes
<seb128> hggdh, looking to your gtk2-engine-murrine debdiff on the bug
<seb128> not sure that adding a patch system in a sru is a good thing
<hggdh> well... what should I do then?
<seb128> the debdiff also has config.guess,config.sub noise
<hggdh> the package was generated from a standard debuild -S -si, from a clean archive. Not sure where the noise came from
<seb128> same distro serie? ie karmic?
<hggdh> yes, I pull-lp-source from karmic
<seb128> the rules clean target has a rules to update those
<seb128> ok, no problem, I will drop those from the debdiff and sponsor the update
<seb128> let's see if somebody complains about the patch system adding
<hggdh> seb128: but what should I do re. a patch on clean source?
<seb128> I guess I would not have said anything if that was no quilt :-)
<seb128> hggdh, no don't bother
<seb128> (hate quilt)
<seb128> thanks for the work on it
<hggdh> heh. I just copied from the Jaunty version -- it used quilt there, I went with it, minimum changes and all of that
<seb128> will you do the gtk2-engines change too?
<hggdh> yes
<hggdh> personally, I do not like quilt either ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> brb session restart
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> hello chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks
<chrisccoulson> and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> not to bad is not great either
<hggdh> seb128: a question re. gtk2-engines: should I open a new bug for it (since it is a different patch)?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - could i ask you to test something on your fresh session?
<seb128> you should stop overworking yourself with ubuntu tasks ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes?
<seb128> hggdh, no, we have a task for each one on the bug
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - could you try playing a video in totem, and then closing totem without stopping the video first
<hggdh> seb128: k, thanks
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - and then run:
<chrisccoulson> dbus-send --session ^Cdest='org.gnome.SessionManager' --print-reply --type=method_call /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.GetInhibitors
<chrisccoulson> and see if it outputs anything?
<chrisccoulson> i'm just intrigued if i am the only person seeing this issue
<chrisccoulson> oops, make that: dbus-send --session dest='org.gnome.SessionManager' --print-reply --type=method_call /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.GetInhibitor
<chrisccoulson> (without the ^C)
<seb128> "Must use org.mydomain.Interface.Method notation, no dot in "/org/gnome/SessionManager"
<seb128> "
<seb128> I hate this new ctrl-C behaviour
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i tried to copy with ctrl-C
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I get the message I copied
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if there's a copy/paste error?
<chrisccoulson> it seems to work ok here
<chrisccoulson> dbus-send --session dest='org.gnome.SessionManager' --print-reply --type=method_call /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.GetInhibitors
<chrisccoulson> i don't know if xchat mangles anything along the way?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, use pastebin?
<hggdh> seb128: the debdiff for gtk2-engines is in the bug.
<seb128> hggdh, thanks, I uploaded the murrine one, I assigned the bug to you too since sru should have an assignee
<seb128> ie somebody responsive to read user feedback after upload
<hggdh> oh, OK, was not aware of that, thanks
<seb128> no problem
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: I'll have a patch in a bit
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://paste.ubuntu.com/307982/
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - oh, ok, i was going to work on one too ;)
<chrisccoulson> but if you're already working on it, then that's ok
<mclasen> yeah, I pondered letting you work it out yourself....but that would be cruel :-)
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i opened gnome bug 600488 fyi
<ubottu> Gnome bug 600488 in general "Totem is leaking session inhibitors" [Major,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600488
<mclasen> ok, I'll put it there
<hggdh> brb
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, still same messages
<seb128> chrisccoulson, d-feet says [] though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so I think it's just that no inhibitor get in action
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - you don't seem to be seeing the same behaviour as me then. do you get an inhibitor whilst a video is playing?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but it goes away when I close totem
<mclasen> it gets removed it totem is closed normally
<mclasen> it doesn't get removed it totem falls off the bus
<mclasen> two different code paths in g-s-s
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i'm seeing different behaviour. i see them not being removed if i close totem whilst a video is still playing
 * chrisccoulson wonders it totem is crashing on shutdown
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, strange, it seems to be closing normally
<seb128> hum, I got my left click stucked in selection mode in xchat
<seb128> weird
<seb128> had to restart xorg to fix it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - what was the actual symptom? i only started using xchat a couple of days ago, and noticed an issue this evening where i couldn't click my mouse on any other window, and had to restart xorg to fix it too
<seb128> it acted like left click was always on in xchat
<seb128> ie moving the cursor would select text and never stop
<seb128> left click somewhere else would do nothing
<JanC> in most cases just killing xchat will work too  ;)
<JanC> or whatever application does weird things
<seb128> I closed everything open without luck
<seb128> brb another quick try to this one
<seb128> re
<kwwii> hey seb128, how do I get a package included in universe?
<kwwii> I made a package with all the wallpapers we couldn't include on the CD
<seb128> hi kwwii, you find somebody who has upload right to package it?
<seb128> open a bug against ubuntu and subscribe sponsors
<kwwii> I packaged it myself and it works fine
<seb128> the universe sponsors
<kwwii> cool, thanks ;)
<seb128> you're welcome
<rickspencer3> bryce, is there a way for a script to detect that a bug was filed with checkbox?
 * rickspencer3 wonders if we can "auto-ignore" if there are annoying
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: sure, they all get tagged
<seb128> re
<seb128> sorry got a crappy internet tonight
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks for the patch
<chrisccoulson> i will try it out shortly :)
<hggdh> seb128: I proposed a fix for bug 460050; I will wait for upstream revision before doing a debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460050 in evolution "Pressing Enter or Tab in a new memo line (in memo list) exits Evolution" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460050
<seb128> hggdh, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-03
<rickspencer3> is jabber down for anyone else?
<chrisccoulson> wow, people reporting lucid bugs already
<chrisccoulson> almost like they are surprised that things don't work properly
<robert_ancell> Does anyone here have the seahorse-agent crash problem from bug 429322?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i've not experienced that
<chrisccoulson> what conditions seem to trigger it?
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, I haven't worked out what causes it - I've never seen it myself and the backtrace isn't giving me many clues
<robert_ancell> It seems reasonably common though
<chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i just noticed the gazillion duplicates there
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i've never seen the crash because i don't have seahorse-plugins installed ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i've installed it and re-enabled apport now ;)
<rickspencer3> msg ArneGoetje hi
<rickspencer3> heh
<albasheers> audio or video file is played only after 10 sec  in ubuntu 9.10
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> bryce: are they at least tagged in any way, so that you could ignore them?
<baptistemm> hello
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<seb128> good morning there
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> not good this morning. my car has died!
<chrisccoulson> so i'm stuck at home, which isn't all bad i suppose ;)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> I should stop autostarting my IRC in the morning it jumps everytime when connecting to wireless
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> what happened to your car?
<pitti> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> the auxilliary belt just snapped, but it has caused the timing belt to jump as well
<seb128> hello pitti
<chrisccoulson> which is not good :(
<pitti> chrisccoulson: uh, good luck!
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks pitti
<pitti> for that matter, I need to repair the bike of my wife; back in ~45 mins or so
 * pitti yawns
<pitti> spent until 1:30 am to unbreak udev
<chrisccoulson> i'm having it recovered from my house in the nnext hhour or so, but i think it is the end for my car ;)
<seb128> pitti, starting to repair things just after breakfast, brave of you ;-)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> udev, bikes, it's all the same
<seb128> pitti, you managed to fix the udev fd leak issue?
<pitti> seb128: yep
<seb128> you rock
<pitti> well, fixing an fd leak is dead simple
<pitti> finding it is the challenge :)
 * seb128 things chrisccoulson and pitti are in a who rock the most competition
<seb128> tackling bugs every night
<pitti> you forgot the magical seb128!
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * pitti &
<seb128> 123 bug emails from the night, not to bad, I can be done with that before 11 I think
<chrisccoulson> 123 is not too bad
<chrisccoulson> you can relax a bit more this morning ;)
<chrisccoulson> right, bbl. got to go and take jo's car now to fetch all of the things i need from my car
<mac_v> hmm , anyone know if  <albasheers> is a member of the desktop team or any other team? he drops by often and mentions something is not working
<seb128> mac_v, I've read the nickname but he's not a known active member there
<mac_v> ah , then he might just have been looking for help here ... need to point him the #ubuntu
<pitti> re
<seb128> wb pitti
<seb128> bug inbox 0 \o/
 * seb128 does some sru sponsoring now
<pitti> you rock
<seb128> pitti, that or I just spend too much time reading bug emails ;-)
<seb128> well I've been better at spending less time on that this cycle
<seb128> but I like to know where we stand after a stable and before starting a new cycle too
<pitti> I hope I can spend more time on reading bugs in the lucid cycle
<seb128> brb
<mac_v> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/   :(
<chrisccoulson> right, time for me to go to work now
<seb128> re
<seb128> karmic tages ages to boot there :-(
<mvo> mac_v: that is indeed pretty negative :/
<pitti> a friend of mine ranted as well already
<seb128> mvo, what? review?
<seb128> pitti, about?
<mvo> seb128: the link that mac_v posted
<andreasn> seb128: I was blown away by how fast karmic booted on my dell machine
<seb128> mvo, I just rebooted so didn't get it
<seb128> andreasn, ssd drive?
<pitti> seb128: pulseaudio, policykit behaviour, and docking station handling primarily
<mac_v> seb128: >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/
<andreasn> seb128: not sure, how do I check that?
<seb128> andreasn, you would probably know if you had one
<GerardT> Hi
<seb128> hum, why does they say karmic install 2.6.28?
<mac_v> FWIW , hardware sucks... for my hardware Karmic was so much better than Jaunty ... I'v been using Karmic since alpha2 and for me , apart for the occasional crashes, it was more stable than Jaunty final and worked even better... I guess that alpha testers who had problems  , reported the issues and the bugs were fixed... I guess it might be just that we dont have a widespread alpha tester base :(
<GerardT> I'm using Karmic and I have installed the PPA version of empathy, Can one get cam from another MSN user even if you don't have a cam installed on your side? (This works on MSN Live)
<seb128> GerardT, try #telepathy
<GerardT> thanks
<andreasn> seb128: so yeah, I think it's just a regular disk. I feel every release boots faster and faster (although this was the first time I installed ubuntu on that machine)
<GerardT> will do
<seb128> GerardT, we are not working on the ppa version
<seb128> pitti, mvo: karmic has lot of issues but this article is a crap one
<seb128> not sure where they got the linux version used wrong
<GerardT> seb128: I installed the PPA because MSN vid call is disabled :D
<seb128> and what sort of issue upgrades get
<seb128> GerardT, it's disabled for a reason, it's early code and lack stability
<GerardT> aah
<GerardT> the Telepathy page didn't mention that :D
<GerardT> Tired of running XP in a VM just for Vid conferencing, I was hoping Telepathy fixed that.
<GerardT> Thanks for the help seb128
<seb128> you're welcome
<mac_v> seb128: you need to comment on the page or contact the author about the mistakes , in the article, this article is bad PR :(
<seb128> GerardT, well it might work for you it's worth testing
<seb128> mac_v, right, unfortunate but you will always have different press stories anyway
<GerardT> I tried with a friend and the call never came through but I don't have cam, so it might be the code needs a cam on both sides of the connection
 * seb128 wonders if somebody read my ubuntu-desktop email or care
<seb128> I feel I waster an hour writing it yesterday
<seb128> I feel I waster an hour writing it yesterday
<seb128> ups
<mac_v> seb128: was that mail a call for early testers? i was a bit confused
<seb128> mac_v, not really no
<mac_v> ah ,ok
<mvo> seb128: it is
<seb128> it was rather a call to organize efforts on quality
<mvo> seb128: that is a bug in grub apparently, there was a discussion about this the other day
<seb128> mvo, it is what? one hour wasted? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: its a crap article
<seb128> mvo, oh :-(
<seb128> you will always find somebody who got unlucky with some hardware
<seb128> I expect we got similar reviews about intel in jaunty
<seb128> pitti, what was wrong with the murrine update?
<pitti> seb128: see bug; it adds a patch to series which wasn't included in the diff
<seb128> gni?
<GerardT> Very impressed with Karmic btw.
<seb128> GerardT, thanks ;-)
<seb128> pitti, oh right, thanks for spotting it
<seb128> pitti, reuploaded
<seb128> pitti, that's me who sucked and tried to clean the config.guess and config.sub from the debdiff
<seb128> I overlooked the other changes while cleaning
<GerardT> I don't know what changed in the sound drivers but the volume is WAY better in Karmic than Jaunty
<pitti> seb128: np; thanks
<seb128> pitti, oh, you sponsored robert_ancell's rhythmbox change too, thanks
<seb128> hey again chrisccoulson
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I sponsored your gnome-desktop sru
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<chrisccoulson> pitti - how did you track down the udev issue?
<chrisccoulson> that's quite a non-obvious issue ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I did some IRC/ssh debugging on huat's machine; first we noticed that it works when restarting udedv (i. e. when "sudo stop udev"/"udevd --debug" -> heisenbug)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so I straced the udevd after boot, found that it threw millions of "too many open files" errors, looked at /proc/pid/fd/ and saw that it kept > 1000 dirs open to /dev/.udev/db/links/
<seb128> pitti, just curious but why retracers keep crashing?
<seb128> pitti, do you want me to help on cleaning and restarting those?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - that's good work though. it's quite a tricky issue to track down
<pitti> chrisccoulson: then I noticed that I got the issue as well when doing an udev trigger on my usb stick
<pitti> chrisccoulson: then the fun bit was to stare at strace and the code long enough to find out where the leak happened :)
<pitti> seb128: I just restarted them a couple of times, but they keep crashing with "bad gateway" and 403 erros
<pitti> haven't looked into that yet, sorry
<seb128> pitti, I was not asking you to have a look I was rather asking if you want me to do the clean and restart game for a while
<seb128> so it's not always you
<pitti> seb128: that would be nice
<seb128> ok, will do
<pitti> but I think there's an underlying bug
<seb128> right, but meanwhile let's keep them going this way
<pitti> seb128: it might be worth checkign if it always crashes on the same bug
<seb128> until we look at the issue
<pitti> if not, we could just keep restarting them
<pitti> if it's the same bug, perhaps just untag it for now
<seb128> ok, I will keep an eye on what happens
<pitti> merci!
<seb128> you're welcome
 * pitti syncs some utopia love to lucid
<chrisccoulson> ooh, i didn't realise the toolchain was uploaded already
<chrisccoulson> when are we starting the gnome 2.29.1 updates? ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you think that gnome bug 600488 is worth a SRU? (I haven't reported the issue on LP yet though)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 600488 in general "Totem is leaking session inhibitors" [Major,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600488
<seb128> chrisccoulson, wait for somebody to complain maybe and batch with other changes?
<seb128> ie we can wait maybe to fix some extra issues
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, maybe. i'll have a look and see if there are any other gnome-screensaver issues too
<hyperair> after rebooting over 10 times and checking my uptime directly after the desktop has settled, i've made one observation -- sreadahead is crap that doesn't do anything >_>
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh it's gnome-screensaver
<seb128> chrisccoulson, go for it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. i'll prepare the update for that later
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i initially thought the bug was totem, but i didn't realise that gnome-screensaver is meant to clear up these inhibitors too. it is that bit which currently doesn't work
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you figure why it's breaking on normal closing for you?
<Ng> hyperair: try ureadahead from the ubuntu-boot ppa :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, doesn't sound like a terribly critical issue to me, but go ahead if you think it's important; I tend to agree to seb128 to bundle it with other fixes, though
<hyperair> Ng: yet another Xreadahead?!
<hyperair> Ng: what's new in this one?
<Ng> hyperair: it has even more Keybuk magic (I have no idea ;)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no, i'm not sure about that. do you see any warnings related to inhibiting when you run totem from the terminal?
<hyperair> Ng: and i'm willing to give anything a go if it'll decrease my bootup time (currently 2m-2m30s)
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, no
<andreasn> mpt: do you have slides from your Interface Bloopers talk available somewhere?
<mpt> andreasn, just uploaded it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewPaulThomas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=Bloopers.pdf
<andreasn> I saw a book the other day called GUI Bloopers, know if it's any good?
<mpt> andreasn, I read it many years ago, and I really don't remember
<andreasn> I'll see if I can get it from the library instead of buying it
<apachelogger> fta: pling pling
<chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - is your xchat-gnome indicator work publicly available anywhere?
<fta> apachelogger, plong plong
<apachelogger> fta: yo, is there something wrong with the chromium dailies?
<fta> such as?
<apachelogger> fta: not producing any dailies
<fta> hm, let me check
<apachelogger> fta: some dude keeps complaining that it is broken for 5 days now
<fta> apachelogger, i fixed it yesterday, but apparently, there's a new problem
<apachelogger> I see
<fta> apachelogger, *sigh* another -Werror FTBFS. I'll poke upstream (i don't want to carry too many patches in my dailies)
<apachelogger> fta: ok, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson1> pitti - speaking of rolling gnome-screensaver updates all together - i've also been looking at bug 428884 with siretart
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver --poke functionality does no longer inhibit screen blanking" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884
<chrisccoulson1> i'm not sure what is acceptable for a SRU, but it seems that the only way to reset the IDLETIME counter is to use something like XTestFakeKeyPress, which is what other software already does too
<fta> apachelogger, it's funny people are complaining to you and not to me
<seb128> fta, don't use -Werror in daily builds? ;-)
<seb128> fta, don't use -Werror in daily builds? ;-)
<seb128> ups
 * seb128 kicks touchpad
 * seb128 kicks touchpad
 * seb128 kicks touchpad
<seb128> we should have a way to turn it off for people using the other pointing device
<apachelogger> fta: generally complaining to the kubuntu team ;)
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - didn't there used to be a way to switch it off?
<chrisccoulson1> some other users would like that functionality back too
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, not in karmic
<chrisccoulson1> you could switch it off in jaunty though couldn't you?
<Ng> yeah it used to be possible
<TheMuso`> seb128: Is bonob et al going away in lucid? If not, I am actually enclined to stick with bonob for a11y for lucid.
<fta> seb128, upstream uses it, it prefer to stick with it and report errors on the flow. i'm trying to convince google to include karmic in their official build farm (they have hardy and jaunty already but gcc4.4 has shown hundreds of new problems)
<TheMuso`> bonobo
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, yup
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/xchat-gnome-indicator
<chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - thanks :)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, just pushed it last night :)
<kenvandine> please test
<chrisccoulson1> i will have a play around with that later
<kenvandine> you need my patched xchat-gnome though, there was an xchat feature that hadn't been implemented in xchat-gnome yet that i needed
<mac_v> kenvandine: is gwibber supposed to show "new message" in the indicator? [it currently doesnt for me]
<seb128> TheMuso`, no
<kenvandine> mac_v, only replies
<mac_v> oh , ok
<seb128> TheMuso`, there is at least gnome-panel using it
<chrisccoulson1> kenvandine - is there a branch for your patched xchat-gnome too?
<seb128> TheMuso`, gconf too
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson1, https://launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/xchat-gnome
<kenvandine> it is waiting to be built in my ppa
<chrisccoulson1> excellent, thanks:)
<kenvandine> bbiab
<fta> kenvandine, does it work with the regular xchat?
<pitti> seb128: seems that the retracer is making progress; I just remove the locks again, so that it can catch up
<seb128> pitti, thanks, sorry I was away for lunch and didn't get to look at those before
<kenvandine> fta, it does
<kenvandine> but, it needs to be installed in a different rid
<kenvandine> s/rid/dir
<kenvandine> i should make that a build option
<kenvandine> fta, you can just build it locally and load .libs/indicator.so
<fta> kenvandine, maybe i should just give xchat-gnome another try..
<fta> in fact, i already have notifications from xchat.. not sure where they come from though
 * kenvandine is now puzzled why local builds of xchat-gnome create xchat-gnome-common but it isn't in the ppa
<kenvandine> oh... it's arch indep
<seb128> kenvandine, should be built anyway no?
<seb128> pitti, retracers crashed again I will restart them from now and look at issues
<Amaranth> mvo: I updated the compiz no_wrapper branch to include a max texture size check, should have every feature of the shell script that is still useful now
<kenvandine> seb128_, it will be
<kenvandine> the i386 build is stuck
<seb128_> ah ok
<kenvandine> est start in 14h
<kenvandine> submitted 7 hours ago
<seb128> the ppa builds can get slow when buildders are loaded
<kenvandine> seb128, you should try out that plugin :)
<Amaranth> this max texture size check is more accurate too since we've already setup the GL environment like we need it and compiz has two ways it can handle textures that each have their own max size
<seb128> will do
<kenvandine> it does require a patch to xchat-gnome, just to implement the GUI FOCUS command
 * kenvandine goes to submit that upstream now
 * Amaranth wonders when he will be able to upload compiz stuff
<albasheers> 10 sec audio delay  when i start playing any audio in karmic koala
<seb128> albasheers, try launchpad to submit bugs
<albasheers> ok
<seb128> you probably want to open the bug on pulseaudio there
<chrisccoulson> heh, the karmic-proposed testers are an enthusiastic bunch
<chrisccoulson> 3 thumbs up in a couple of hours versus no comments for a hardy-proposed update thats been sat around since friday
<pitti> yeah
<pitti> but not surprising
<mvo> Amaranth: nice, thanks
 * pitti copies to lucid
<chrisccoulson> it's good that users participate in the SRU process
<kenvandine> seb128, btw that xchat-gnome plugin suffers from the same focus problem as empathy and pidgin when raised from the indicator
 * kenvandine is annoyed
<seb128> kenvandine, it's disappointing that the dxteam washes hand and consider the issue not their issue when the user experience is so poor there
<kenvandine> yeah, there needs to be a generic way of fixing this
<kenvandine> we shouldn't need to go into each app and force it
<kenvandine> like i really don't want to have to patch xchat-gnome to make it force focus
<chrisccoulson> does anyone understand why this behaviour occurs?
<chrisccoulson> i find it really annoying too
<Amaranth> What is happening?
<Amaranth> Oh, right, focus stealing prevention
<mvo> heh :) Amaranth has a highlight on focus -  I'm sure :P
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - yes, specifically with apps launched from the indicator
<chrisccoulson> focus focus focus :P
<Amaranth> Right, because the WM sees you clicking on the indicator thing
<Amaranth> So you need to have the app that is trying to get focus have a timestamp that comes after this click
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what i was wondering
<Amaranth> iirc I told this to someone before...
<Amaranth> But it would involve changing code in each app that has an indicator plugin
<Amaranth> I can't think of any other way to do it
<mac_v> kenvandine: is xchat-gnome is similar to xchat? or any features are missing from it?
<kenvandine> some features missing
<Amaranth> mac_v: ban lists :/
<kenvandine> but nothing important :)
<Amaranth> ha
<kenvandine> imho
 * kenvandine has never found a need for ban lists
 * Amaranth puts his Op Team hat on
<Amaranth> ban lists are very important
<kenvandine> mac_v, i estimate it is about 60% of the xchat features, enough for average users
<kenvandine> and it has a much better UI :)
<mac_v> oh... i *never* tried xchat-gnome  ,since folks kept telling that is had problems , ubt since kenvandine is getting the indicator plugin , I'm tempted :)
<kenvandine> problems?
<mac_v> but*
<chrisccoulson> i only just started using xchat-gnome
 * kenvandine has been using it for years, love it :)
<chrisccoulson> i used empathy for IRC before, so xchat-gnome is a big step up
<mac_v> kenvandine: i dont know what problems , but that was probably near hardy or earlier... i dont eve remember :)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, hehe...
<Amaranth> I've been using xchat-gnome since it first made it into Ubuntu but I still miss ban lists
<Amaranth> There has been a menu item for them this whole time too, it's just grayed out
<Amaranth> Oh, xchat-gnome also falls over when you type "ma<tab>" and more than one nick matches
<seb128> Amaranth, those are an admin feature though
<mac_v> kenvandine: ... so if i install xchat-gnome most of the settings from xchat [~/.xchat] will be used?
<mac_v> ~/.xchat2 rather
<mac_v> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<pitti> !suicide
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about suicide
<mac_v> !helping humans
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about helping humans
<kenvandine> mac_v, yes, it uses all the xchat settings
<mac_v> awesome...  /me migrates
<mac_v> kenvandine: thanks :)
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> mac_v, you should grab my source and build it locally :)
<kenvandine> i added an un-implemented feature that is needed for the indicator plugin
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/+archive/xchat-gnome/+packages
<kenvandine> for the xchat-gnome sources
<kenvandine> and lp:~ken-vandine/xchat-gnome-indicator/packaging
<kenvandine> for the plugin sources
<kenvandine> and just build them both locally for now
 * chrisccoulson needs to think about what to work on in lucid
<mac_v> oh...
<mac_v> kenvandine: ok cool , I'll do that then in a bit :) ...
<mac_v> thanks again :)
 * ccheney` is on a really slow wifi link in orvieto
<ccheney`> grr link is so slow i can't even sort my email
 * ccheney` bbl
<mvo> ccheney`: hm, have you seen the issues around bug #450569 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450569 in update-manager "package openoffice.org-emailmerge 1:3.0.1-9ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450569
<mac_v> seb128: the increasing trend of users are not subscribing to bugs is after the new version of launchpad landed... there is no "subscribe to bug" near the comment section... shouldnt we alteast subscribe the users by default?
<mac_v> or should this be discussed with bdmurray?
<seb128> I think subscribe when commenting should be the default yes
<mvo> seb128: could I have your opinion on bug #469399 ? is there any harm in just removing a a icon-theme.cache file if its already there?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 469399 in update-manager "Could not install 'gnome-accessibility-themes' & 'gnome-themes-more'" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/469399
<seb128> mvo, no, it's just a cache the gtk-update-icon-cache call will do a new one
<seb128> mvo, weird error though
<seb128> "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to open file /usr/share/icons/Amaranth/.icon-theme.cache : File exists"
<seb128> could be that the case got corrupted or something
 * Amaranth hates that theme
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mvo, I think .icon-theme.cache is a temp file though, which could means the cache update fails for this theme
<mac_v> Amaranth: been hiding a secret theme, eh? ;)
<hggdh> seb128: good morning, debdiff (karmic) for bug 460050 is attached to the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460050 in evolution "Pressing Enter or Tab in a new memo line (in memo list) exits Evolution" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460050
<mvo> seb128: hm, ok. so its either a corrupted file or a bug in the theme and a misleading error message?
 * mvo looks at the source of gtk-update-icon-cache
<mvo> is it just me or is epiphany in karmic crashing a lot?
<seb128> hggdh, thanks
<seb128> mvo, right
<seb128> mvo, I think the file starting with a . is a temp file not the cache so the cache update probably failed for a reason there
<seb128> mvo, the reason could be that there is something in this theme making the cache update command unhappy
<seb128> or a one time bug on the user side
<seb128> mvo, dunno about epiphany I use firefox now
<seb128> I would not be surprised they use webkit now and it didn't stabilize yet
<seb128> ie still new code compared to the gecko version
<hggdh> seb128: a question: on bug 460710 we now have tasks for Lucid. What am I supposed to do there?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460710 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710
<hggdh> and sorry for bothering you :-)
<mvo> seb128: I don't use it much, but it crashes for me after ~5 min usually
<Amaranth> hggdh: well for an SRU you usually want to get the fix into lucid first
<Amaranth> or at least I was always told to do so
<Amaranth> and lucid is open now...
<hggdh> oh
<hggdh> so should I debuild -S -sa or -S -si?
<mac_v> mvo: that bug hggdh just pasted is related to the progress bar... [maybe the same is affecting synaptic too]
 * mvo looks
<seb128> hggdh, nothing for lucid, pitti will pocket copy binaries
<hggdh> seb128: thank you
<seb128> theorically fixes should land in lucid first if we have changes there
<seb128> but when the version is the same in karmic and lucid we just copy things
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> this I did not know :)
<Amaranth> then again I've only ever done SRUs after debian import started
<Amaranth> and I've only done two, I think :)
<hggdh> Amaranth: I wish I just did not know *this*, but the depth of my ignorance is astounding
<Amaranth> hggdh: It's ok, I just read way too much
<Amaranth> So I can tell you a little bit about how a lot of things work
<rickspencer3> desktop team meeting in 1 minute!
 * ArneGoetje waves
 * pedro_ waves
<seb128_> re
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-11-03
<seb128_> internet disconnected and I didn't notice
<pitti> o/
<seb128_> or rather ip changed and I didn't notice
<rickspencer3> asac is on holiday
<seb128_> pitti, I guess you didn't get my "not you too!"? ;-)
<rickspencer3> bryce, ccheney`
<seb128_> pitti, about quilt in g-d-u
<pitti> seb128_: erm, no?
<seb128_> oh right meeting is one hour earlier
<rickspencer3> kenvandine,  Riddell tkamppeter
<pitti> seb128_: pkg-utopia standard, sorry; but we don't actually have gdu patches
 * kenvandine waves
<seb128_> pitti, just noticed that you add quilt use to g-d-u so I added a "not you too!" comment ;-)
<seb128_> pitti, yeah, just joking
<rickspencer3> shall we start?
<pitti> let's
<rickspencer3> there are two agenda items
<rickspencer3> 1. review goals
<rickspencer3> 2. blueprints/UDS
<rickspencer3> 1 is quick
<rickspencer3> review goals are "due" by today
<rickspencer3> that means objectives plugged into the web site
<rickspencer3> # If you can't get them in by today, let me know and shoot for eow
<rickspencer3> # If you don't have goals, no problems. Just think about what you want to write about yourself in your review, and make some goals that will make that review easier to write
<rickspencer3> we can talk if you are stuck
<rickspencer3> please be patient with the system
<pitti> erm, those are goals for the _last_ cycle, wasn't it?
<rickspencer3> pitti, yes
<pitti> i. e. should just be copy&paste
<rickspencer3> sorry, let me back up
<pitti> everyone should have their goals in the old system already?
<rickspencer3> pitti, some do, some don't
<kenvandine> pitti, not all of us did it last time :)
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, sorry :)
<rickspencer3> so the HR team sent a mail asking people to out their current goals into the new web site
<rickspencer3> we don't have to worry about 2010 goals for a few weeks
<tkamppeter> hi
<rickspencer3> so if you've got 'em, copy and paste
<rickspencer3> if not, see above
<rickspencer3> don't overanalyze
<rickspencer3> the HR team is working very hard to get a new system up and running for us
<rickspencer3> they are very aware of the limitations, etc... and they are working hard to shake out the remaining issues
<rickspencer3> so I ask everyone to be patient with the new system
<rickspencer3> Riddell, ccheney` if you haven't been to the site and don't know where it is, etc... let me know and I'll help you out in PM
<Riddell> hmm?  I did mine yesterday
<rickspencer3> that's #1, unless there are questions, I'd like to turn the mic over to pitti
<rickspencer3> Riddell, ok, I'll check it out and follow up with you in PM if necessary
<rickspencer3> bryce, ^
<rickspencer3> ok, pitti?
<pitti> last week's action was for everyone to spend some thoughts about your own goals for lucid
<pitti> we have two weeks to UDS, and Rick and I want to start setting up and scheduling blueprints
<pitti> so (1) I'm curious about what you want to do in lucid, and (2) what to talk about at UDS
<pitti> so I propose we go round and let everyone speak
<pitti> I'll start
<pitti> goals:
<pitti> - Continue halsectomy: move suspend quirks from hal-info to pm-utils, and play with the existing patch to un-hal-ify X.org; goal: no hal installed by default
<pitti> - make desktop startup faster
<pitti> - fix lots of bugs, and more of those
<pitti> so from those, I would like to have those blueprints:
<pitti> suspend-quirks-halsectomy, xorg-halsectomy, compiz-speedup, nautilus-speedup, panel-speedup
<pitti> (the first two probably won't need discussion, just as a tool for tracking progress)
<pitti> so, let's just start from the top of the meeting list
<pitti> rickspencer3: ?
<rickspencer3> I put a list on the meeting page ...
<pitti> rickspencer3: right, I meant your _personal_ goals
<pitti> quickly and some such?
<pitti> (let's talk about the stuff from other teams etc. later)
<rickspencer3> right, I was going to say
<rickspencer3> pitti, I'm not sure what you're asking for
<rickspencer3> oh, my personal goals
<rickspencer3> gotcha, sorry
<pitti> rickspencer3: like, do you plan something like quickly for lucid? improvements/new projects/etc.?
<rickspencer3> they are already in the wiki ;)
<rickspencer3> # Quickly ubuntu-project template enhancements, new templates
<rickspencer3> # Quickly itself enhancements
<pitti> thanks; those map to blueprints pretty well, I guess
<rickspencer3> yes
<pitti> ArneGoetje: ?
<ArneGoetje> - continue karmic improvements, what has been left over
<ArneGoetje> for language-selector
<ArneGoetje> - improve wordlist handling for Chinese in IBus if possible
<rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, Riddell - shall we discuss Rosetta + Kubuntu in a blueprint?
<ArneGoetje> - improve fontconfig settings and default font selection for the desktop
<ArneGoetje> rickspencer3, Riddell: what needs to be done there?
<pitti> ArneGoetje: did you already get some feedback about the ibus switch?
<Riddell> ArneGoetje: stop a rebellion :)
<pitti> lol
<pitti> Riddell: like, upstream vs. LP translations?
<ArneGoetje> pitti: so far positive, some users have trouble with the upgrade from Jaunty
<pitti> sounds worth a discussion, since it keeps coming up
<Riddell> and vs kubuntu packagers
<pitti> noted on the list
<pitti> ArneGoetje: thanks
<pitti> bryce ?
<bryce> heya
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: I'm a bit detached from that discussion right now... can you update me after meeting?
<pitti> bryce: lucid-kill-all-checkbox-bugs :)
<rickspencer3> that's a karmic update, right pitti? ;)
<pitti> ArneGoetje: I'll put it on the UDS agenda, seems worth having more people in that
<bryce> pitti, :-)
<pitti> rickspencer3: that too
<Riddell> ArneGoetje: well we have a phone call tomorrow, you accepted the invite I think
<rickspencer3> pitti, I have one that I would like to suggest to bryce, is this the right forum for that?
<pitti> sure
<ArneGoetje> pitti: ok
<bryce> well, mostly I'd like to make progress against the large count of X bugs, by stabilizing things
<ArneGoetje> Riddell: yes
<rickspencer3> bryce, I think a package that installs everything for a good touch experience would be useful
<bryce> along those lines, I'd like to get some better bug triaging and diagnosis tools in place
<bryce> rickspencer3, as in touchscreens?
<pitti> bryce: do you plan changes on the nouveau/KMS front?
<rickspencer3> bryce, yes
<rickspencer3> make sure that we have an on screen keyboard that works, etc...
<bryce> pitti, I am thinking if we were to change that, it should have been changed in karmic
<pitti> bryce: nouveau? I agree; but there might be some KMS improvements for ATI, etc.?
<pitti> rickspencer3, bryce: should touchscreen support become a UDS session?
<bryce> rickspencer3, ok, it might help to have appropriate hardware for that
<rickspencer3> pitti, I think it's a nice to have, but could become important if someone wants to ship a touch device with Ubuntu
<rickspencer3> so, I would like such a session if there is time
<pitti> sure; let's add it as "low"
<bryce> pitti, not sure there is enough to warrant having a discussion about it, it'll mostly be a "hook it up and fiddle with it until it works reliably" type of project ;-)
<rickspencer3> bryce, there is app selection and settings too
<pitti> bryce: driver-wise yes; screen keyboard, panel changes, etc. sound more discussion worthy
<pitti> ok, thanks
<rickspencer3> I feel that we can move on and discuss in the blueprint
<pitti> oh, -ENOCALC
<pitti> Riddell?
<pitti> ah, sorry
<pitti> ccheney`: ?
<pitti> timeout; Riddell?
<Riddell> there is a document called Project Timelord linked from kubuntu.org which lists much of what we want to achieve
<Riddell>  - fixing translations issues
<Riddell>  - strategies for publicity, vision, marketing and software branding
<Riddell>  - increase the efficiency of our bug trackers
<Riddell>  - Measures to ensure the continuing quality of our KDE packages
<Riddell>  - improve the integration of Kubuntu-specific tools with KDE
<Riddell> in general, it's an LTS so we want to do as little as possible, just fixing anything that needs it
<pitti> Riddell: on that note, would you prefer to set up the kubuntu blueprints yourself, or want me to do them?
<Riddell> pitti: I'll do them in the next day or three
<pitti> ok, thanks
<pitti> Riddell: bug tracker efficiency> I think this should be a whole-group discussion
<pitti> the one we had on last UDS was pretty good IMHO, and we should collect experience from the last cycle
<pitti> I'll add that one
<pitti> ok?
<Riddell> ok
<pitti> thanks; kenvandine?
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> social from the start
<rickspencer3> *cough*
<kenvandine> empathy/indicator workflow improvements
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> and the move from patching empathy to using MC5 directly
 * seb128 takes gun and defend desktop from too much new crack
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> that's it
<Zdra> I guess karmic+1 won't have gnome-shell?
<seb128> no
<seb128> GNOME 2.30 neither
<pitti> kenvandine: should leave enough room for bug fixing for you as well then?
<seb128> see d-d-l
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'd like to see if we can improve our QA process for new code landing on the desktop
<kenvandine> pitti, definately :)
<rickspencer3> worth a sessin?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, like from partners?
<rickspencer3> yes, and us too
<kenvandine> session with OLS and DX?
<Zdra> seb128, is it already known if GNOME 2.30 will exist? isn't it still supposed to be GNOME 3?
<kenvandine> yeah, of course
<rickspencer3> but like OLS and Dx stuff, can we help them catch bugs earlier?
<seb128> Zdra, read desktop-devel-list and the email from Owen
<Amaranth> Zdra: gnome-shell and GTK+ will not be ready
<seb128> Zdra, they consider they will not be ready for next cycle
<Amaranth> so 2.30 will just be 2.30
<rickspencer3> pedro_, ^ worth a session?
<pitti> rickspencer3: +1 for a session
<pedro_> rickspencer3, yes, totally
<Zdra> seb128, Amaranth: oh ok
<Zdra> fair enough
<rickspencer3> pedro_, can you run that session, own that blueprint?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, +1
<pedro_> rickspencer3, sure, i'll take that
<rickspencer3> pedro_, <3
<rickspencer3> thanks
<pitti> thanks pedro_
<pedro_> np :-)
<pitti> pedro_: on that front, anything else you'd like to talk about at UDS?
<pedro_> pitti, well I'd like to take a look to our workflow on the bugs side and see we can improve there, but i think you already mentioned it
<pedro_> s/we/what
<pitti> pedro_: right, we'll have a session about this (or two, I think)
<pitti> probably one about workflow/prioritization and one about tools
<pitti> seb128?
<seb128> goals:
<seb128> - bring the desktop back to a lts expected quality
<seb128> - login speed
<seb128> - cleaning in GNOME api use to continue
<seb128> specs: gdmsetup-improvements (sound, themes, user list option), review-sound-capplet (the new ones have ui limitations which don't allow some tasks to be done which used to work in hardy), review-desktop-experience (especially indicators workflow), karmic-desktop-quality, gnome3
<seb128> + login speeds spec from pitti
<seb128>  
<seb128> that's it
<pitti> nice, thanks
<Amaranth> seb128: I've got some good news for login speed wrt to compiz. I've killed the shell script
<rickspencer3> pitti, I forgot to mention one
<pitti> rickspencer3: go ahead, please
<rickspencer3> related to pedro_'s
<seb128> Amaranth, does that makes a difference?
<pitti> in general, if anything still comes to your mind, just /msg me
<seb128> I would like to discuss what I wrote on my email to the list too
<Amaranth> seb128: I can't tell, my login speeds are kind of weird
<pitti> I'll prepare the initial list tomorrow (which won't be frozen in any way yet, but we need to get going)
<rickspencer3> launchpad team wants to work with us better regarding our liblaunchpad scripting
<rickspencer3> support our efforts there better
<seb128> at least having people testing set of features
<rickspencer3> of course, I will be pushing for bughugger adoption ;)
<seb128> it's annoying that we ship new versions with things like pdf printing or audio cd recording broken
<pitti> rickspencer3: sounds great; like, the ubuntu-dev-scripts collection, etc.?
<pedro_> rickspencer3, like implementing the workarounds we've been doing?
<pedro_> what pitti said
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, they have a repository for scripts, and want to help us contribute directly to launchpadlib if we have unmet needs
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'll add a session for it then
<rickspencer3> tx
<pitti> ok, thanks everyone for your input; as I said, please /msg me if you forgot something
<pitti> seb128: "I would like to discuss what I wrote on my email to the list" -> is that an agenda topic, or UDS topic?
<seb128> pitti, none of those, rather an out of topic thing to discuss on the channel
<seb128> could be for UDS too
<rickspencer3> seb128 == crack terminator
<seb128> not sure if other people thing it would be a good idea to have set of feature by assigned people
<seb128> I don't want that to be too much of a constrain
<rickspencer3> pitti, may I mention one thing regarding implementing features in Lucid?
<seb128> but like if you use an usb music player try it at every milestone
<seb128> if somebody has access to a smb network make sure it keeps working
<seb128> etc
<pitti> rickspencer3: sure; I'm done with my part anyway
<rickspencer3> k
<rickspencer3> so when thinking about new stuff to implement, please break it down to very "bite size" pieces in you mind
<pitti> seb128: that sounds like a good idea; also, things like "PDF printing" or "usb music player handlng changed" should probably be announced in the first place; we're pretty bad at this, I think
<seb128> that too
<rickspencer3> this is because I will be requiring each project to be done in 3 separable chunks
<rickspencer3> after UDS, I will ask folks contributing to the desktop to commit to only 4 weeks of work at a time
<rickspencer3> and that each 4 week chunk is something complete enough to ship
<rickspencer3> we'll discuss lots more later, but I wanted to mention this so people could start thinking about it
<rickspencer3> that's all for that
<rickspencer3> seb128, did I interupt you, were you finished?
<seb128> rickspencer3, I was done with that thanks
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<pitti> seb128: sorry, didn't read your mail yet, will do
<pitti> o/
<pitti> one quick announcement
<pitti> please everyone take 5 seconds to do https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-l/+attend
<rickspencer3> hehe
<pitti> it's very important for us to sensibly schedule specs
<seb128> oh, and not sure I will be around for meeting next week
<seb128> I'm traveling on monday to join a sprint before uds
<pitti> seb128: fine, then you'll get all the action items
 * seb128 hugs pitti
 * rickspencer3 thinks seb128 just added someone to ignore list
<seb128> pitti, be careful I will be sitting near of you soon ;-)
<rickspencer3> any other business?
<seb128> no
<rickspencer3> ok all
<rickspencer3> UDS starts in less than 2 weeks :)
<pitti> thanks all
<rickspencer3> looking forward to seeing everyone
<rickspencer3> by all
<seb128> thanks
<bryce> thanks
 * rickspencer3 taps gavel
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<pedro_> thanks
<pitti> dinner &
<seb128> pedro_, it has been a while you didn't pick a GNOME package for the bug day
<seb128> pedro_, not liking us desktopers anymore? ;-)
<Amaranth> ooh, ooh, pick compiz
<Amaranth> 411 bugs open, over 100 New :)
<Amaranth> I swear 3-4 weeks ago it was 8 New
<seb128> welcome to post karmic fllod
<seb128> flood
<seb128> I got over 1000 bug emails this weekend
<seb128> and I'm subscribed only to desktop things I'm interested in
<cassidy> are you getting actual new bug or just dup?
<bryce> I know, I'm getting frustrated by the bug influx too
<bryce> http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Graphs/totals.svg
<seb128> cassidy, hard to say, I would say a third is duplicates
<seb128> a third is comments about bugs not fixed yet
<seb128> and a third are new issues or wishlists
<seb128> cassidy, btw, how do you debug empathy not connection to msn where pidgin works?
<seb128> cassidy, btw, how do you debug empathy not connection to msn where pidgin works?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> cassidy, we got quite some bugs about that
<seb128> I'm not sure what to do with those
<seb128> it's somewhat sucking, empathy guys will bounce back to telepathy-butterfly which is not actively worked
<seb128> you can't blame empathy but the result is that the user experience is not what it should
 * istaz is getting butterfly bug duped again not public bugs, not fun
<seb128> istaz, 90% of the bugs are open right now
<seb128> let me check those which are not
<istaz> seb128: this one isn't https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/459366
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<cassidy> seb128, I'd ask for butterfly logs, they should be in the debug window
<seb128> cassidy, ok, I think the most recent one was getting a network error error
<seb128> but he says he can connect using pidgin from the same box
<seb128> istaz, opened
<cassidy> we can't do anything without logs, really
<seb128> istaz, can telepathy-butterfly contain accounts or password informations?
<cassidy> that's why I wrote this auto-fetch log tool :p
<seb128> cassidy, I'm not sure users would appreciate you getting all those login and password infos though
<istaz> seb128: probably because pidgin handle proxy and http connection and we don't (at least butterfly isn't)
<seb128> there is no way you could strip private datas?
<cassidy> password won't be displayed
<seb128> istaz, would those work using haze for msn?
<istaz> seb128: traceback from apport no, full logs from butterflyC[C yes
<seb128> istaz, ok, let me quickly open all crash bugs
<istaz> seb128: most probably yes
<pedro_> seb128, i didn't organized a bug day for previous weeks because of the release, next week i'll do one for the desktop
<seb128> pedro_, thanks ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, jcastro was asking me for a gwibber one since upstream are coming to uds
<pedro_> so time to nudge them about that ;-)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> gwibber get a lot of hipe nowadays
<jcastro> just a lot of bugs
<cassidy> the new version is incredibly shit
<and471> mvo: any problems with the code?
<istaz> I should probably take a full day to look at thoses bug
<cassidy> I used to work fine for me and now it's unusable :(
<seb128> cassidy, are you coming to uds?
<Amaranth> bryce: ouch, about 1000 bugs since august
<cassidy> no
<pedro_> i just wish i could quit the application with just one click, rather than closing and then killing the daemon :-/
<jcastro> pedro_, that was our own idea I think
<istaz> I only take a quick look at all the bugs spam and can't hardly keep up since all the info are hidden in the dups
<seb128> cassidy, ok, somebody from the empathy or telepathy team coming?
<jcastro> for the record during the session at UDS for gwibber I begged and cried for developers to help. :-/
<seb128> istaz, sorry about that
<cassidy> I don't think so
<istaz> seb128: not your fault
<Amaranth> I thought apport wouldn't dupe a public but to a private one
<Amaranth> wait, apport crashes are all private :/
<bryce> jcastro, need to gain more developers ;-)
<jcastro> bryce, yeah, so same boat as everyone else, heh.
<mac_v> seb128: found bug 414401 , lp bugs team says there is some chance it can be picked up and landed next week., so hopefully you'll be burdened less ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414401 in malone "Automatically subscribe users to bug mail when they post a comment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414401
<seb128> mac_v, thanks
<mac_v> hmm! great...! evolution cant play .ogg sounds for mail notifications but is able to play .wav o.0
<mac_v> 'Start.ogg': unrecognized audio file format [error 0]
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - has that ever worked?
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: when i set a .wav audio file it works
<seb128> istaz, opened all the bugs on telepathy-butterfly now
<istaz> thanks
<seb128> istaz, I think I already asked but is there a way to make the difference between a crash and a caught exception in those bug?
<seb128> I think you said apport was catching many things which should not
<seb128> do you have examples?
<seb128> I would like to improve that for lucid
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: i was also not sure that audio ever worked for notification, but i caught that error when i was debugging something else
<istaz> don't know how apport catch exception, basically I think that's all the exception provoked by d-bus call and returned to the caller
<and471> mac_v: if I want the latest humanity icons, which branch should I use, the elementary art one or the humanity one?
<mac_v> and471: the latest is humanity , elementary is just for testing
<and471> mvo: I thought I removed it
<and471> mvo: I shall check
<and471> mac_v: so if I want the icons before they come out officially, the elementary branch?
<istaz> hum no disregard that there is also a whole lot of error which don't make butterfly crash
<mac_v> and471: not really either... we are just confused a bit right now.. :)
<mvo> and471: thanks, it maybe bzr playing tricks on me
<mac_v> and471: not many new icons are done... very rarely... we are taking a breather of sorts ;)
<and471> mac_v: okay
<istaz> seb128: if that's only enabled for dev version that's not really a problem it may help us catch bug we didn't notice before
<and471> mac_v: is the elementary branch synced to the humanity one, or the other way around, or it it just random?
<istaz> it's just annoying for the users
<seb128> istaz, it is
<seb128> istaz, we turn apport off in stable
<seb128> istaz, how can help you to triage the current backlog?
<and471> mvo: I looks like it was removed http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~rugby471/software-center/software-store-andrew/revision/256
<seb128> I would like to build a list of most annoying issues this week
<mac_v> and471: its mostly synced i guess, i try to sync humanity and elementary.... but we are thinking of making some changes to revamp the theme... soo...
<and471> mac_v: but I mean if there are changes in one branch, are they synced both ways?
<mac_v> and471: if the change is in humanity it will be in elemntary too... but not other way around , since several icons are just not final
<istaz> seb128: what I most need is way to reproduce the problem, failing that logs
<seb128> istaz, what logs? do you have a page on how to debug butterfly?
<seb128> istaz, and a way to sort bugs between telepathy-butterfly and papyon too?
<istaz> seb128: in empathy  Help > Debug > Select butterfly
<istaz> not really
<istaz> complete instruction are on http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/Debugging
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> nothing specific to butterfly out of empathy then
<istaz> not with the version packaged in karmic
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know if there is things we can do in lucid to improve bug reports
<istaz> cassidy: do you think there would be a nice way for apport to retrieve the Debug interface logs of Empathy and CM ?
<seb128> istaz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/431081
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 431081 in empathy "Add apport hook to grab logs" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<seb128> I've been discussed with cassidy just before
<seb128> the issue I have is that it would make most bugs private by default
<mvo> and471: I merged some stuff, many thanks. please re-merge and check if it looks good, I had some trouble with the merge this time
 * mvo off for dinner
<and471> mvo: cool thanks
<mvo> and471: thanks you :)
 * mvo &
<istaz> seb128: oh nice
<and471> mvo: when you come back, any reason you didn't include this (just the top bit, about the always show image) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Erugby471/software-center/software-store-andrew/revision/255/data/ui/SoftwareCenter.ui
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - do you have any ideas about bug 429322? (i notice that the equivalent fedora bug is assigned to you)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<mclasen> no
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - all i know so far is how to trigger it
<mclasen> thats the most important part...
<chrisccoulson> it crashes when Xorg disappears
<chrisccoulson> if i start an xtrace session with "xtrace -k -d:0 -D:9" and then run "DISPLAY=:9.0 seahorse-agent", it crashes if i stop xtrace
<jcastro> rickspencer3, is that you adding roderick's sessions to summit?
<rickspencer3> jcastro, nope
<jcastro> greening, a kubuntu person
<jcastro> just trying to fix the session scheduling
<crevette> ah, for those interset I packaged latest bluez, I should perahps propose for upload for lucid
<ccheney`> pitti: pong (slow)
<pitti> ccheney`: hi! during the meeting I asked everyone for a quick overview about their plans for lucid, and which blueprints they want to have for UDS; could you send/msg this to me, please?
<ccheney`> pitti: ok
 * ccheney` looks at how many new bugs per day he is getting and cries :-\
 * chrisccoulson wishes the "restart required" windows would stop appearing in inactive sessions and ending up as white boxes
<ccheney`> ~ 15 new bugs in a span of 12 hours
 * ccheney` hopes there a lot of dupes
<chrisccoulson> grrrrrr, hate orbit
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you want me to backport the fix for bug 441642 to karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441642 in gnome-settings-daemon "Can't check "locate pointer" checkbox" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441642
<chrisccoulson> (or perhaps you did it already)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you have any other change to batch with it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can't think of any off the top of my head
<chrisccoulson> i should check the list of open bugs and make sure
<seb128> would be nice to get in karmic but not worth an upload by itself either
<TheMuso`> seb128: Thanks for that. It makes my decision a lot easier.
<cassidy> istaz, already done :)
<seb128> TheMuso`, not my call ;-)
<seb128> TheMuso`, but yeah, GNOME3 is likely going to not be there before l+1 anyway so no hurry for lucid
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 419354 seems to be accumulating quite a few duplicates now. i was going to fix that anyway, although I didn't initially think it was worth a SRU. It seems that quite a few people are reporting it now though, which I find a bit strange
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419354 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_unix_mount_get_mount_path()" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419354
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: there is no surprise in an X client crashing if X goes away...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, let's batch those changes
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, i'll work on that now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - it probably shouldn't crash though should it? shouldn't it exit more gracefully?
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: in any case, there is no X server going away during login
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - is it happening during login though? in our users case, they get a crash report when they log in, but that could be for a crash that happened at the end of their last session
<mclasen> hmm, could be
<mclasen> the right fix is to make it a session client and get away from the crazy env-var-passing...
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i agree
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - the crash is introduced in the new version because it calls "atexit (seahorse_agent_exit);" during initialization
<chrisccoulson> it looks like it never used to do that
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> how are you?
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<pitti> robert_ancell: good morning
<robert_ancell> seb128, looking forward to getting into lucid... :)
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey
 * seb128 is having some ssh issues
<seb128> oh no, it was focus kept by gnome-keyring somewhere
<seb128> pitti, feel like approving a sru today still?
<seb128> bug #460050
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460050 in evolution "Pressing Enter or Tab in a new memo line (in memo list) exits Evolution" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460050
<pitti> if it's urgent
<seb128> not urgent but it's a frequent crasher
<pitti> I'm knee-deep in a fight with lvm rules
<seb128> it's a online change, debdiff or the bug and uploaded
<seb128> no hurry though
<seb128> online -> one line
<pitti> ok, sounds easy; will have a look
<seb128> not really one line but trivial
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> seems there is quite some unhappy users about it
<seb128> robert_ancell, lucid is open now
<cassidy> Am I supposed to have a "Ubuntu One" address book automatically created in Evolution?
<robert_ancell> seb128, \o/
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you read my ubuntu-desktop email?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so focus is on merging first please then 2.29 ;-)
<seb128> and we will need to be selective about changes we take
<robert_ancell> seb128, party pooper
<seb128> lol
<seb128> if you have specific things you want to update to 2.29 after rebasing on debian I'm fine uploading
<seb128> you will just be responsive for bugs coming from those ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure, do you know of many changes that are needed?  I'm fixing some totem and rhythmbox ones but most of the stuff you listed were things that will be fixed in lucid
<seb128> good work on the gdm cleaning btw
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: I know that for accessibility and audio, I intend to be somewhat conservative this cycle.
<seb128> robert_ancell, needed for karmic updates you mean? upstream fixed the totem youtube issue if you want to backport that
<robert_ancell> seb128, re gdm - yeah I want to get started on lucid so we can close a lot of those
<seb128> the git 2.28 has some other interesting changes
<robert_ancell> seb128, doing youtube issue now
<seb128> you might want to take some extra ones there while working on an update
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, gdm, I think gdmsetup need to have options for sound, user list and theme
<seb128> users need a way to have a silent boot
<seb128> some use their laptop at school or in libraries etc
<seb128> user list seems a security concern for some users
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah I talked to rick about that - he doesn't see these sorts of changes as suitable for backporting.  what do you guys think?
<seb128> and theming is frequently requested
<seb128> what, the gdmsetup extra options?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> no, it's going to be for lucid
<seb128> new strings, etc
<seb128> as written on the list karmic is rough but it was a tech change version
<robert_ancell> oh good.  yes, I mean I want to start on Lucid so I can add all those options
<seb128> we need to focus early on lucid and not waste efforts to assure quality for lucid
<seb128> in my opinion at least
<seb128> others are free to disagree ;-)
<seb128> we might want to fix the uid issue in karmic though
<seb128> I would argue changing back to 500 maybe there
<seb128> it will list extra users in some case but not break working configs
<robert_ancell> seb128, I changed that because someone said they were seeing users they shouldn't!!
<seb128> I know, sorry about that
<seb128> that's what the debian policy say too
<robert_ancell> that's a change we're never going to make everyone happy about
<seb128> but apparently some people are old linux users than me
<seb128> and kept their uid all the way ;-)
<robert_ancell> A common case seems to be connecting via nfs to other unix boxes so they need to have UIDs 500-1000
<seb128> well the bug suggest using the limit set in the etc config
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, agreed
<seb128> at least users can tweak it this way
<robert_ancell> sun made a bunch of changes to make the blacklist etc configurable
<robert_ancell> so upstream should support such change
<seb128> ok good
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: You around for our meeting?
<seb128> do you think you want to start working on otherwise?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, sorry, on call atm
<rickspencer3> 1hr?
<seb128> debian merges, 2.29 updates, lucid changes?
<robert_ancell> seb128, will do
<pitti> seb128: hm; any chance I could convice you to reupload evolution with a fixed bug ref in teh changelog? (missing #)
<pitti> seb128: quite a lot of pages and I believe also update-notifier depend on correct syntax
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Fine by me.
<seb128> pitti, re-uploading, sorry about that
<pitti> seb128: thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, out of this any plan for the week? you think we should start on 2.29?
<seb128> we usually spend before UDS time on SRU and merges
<seb128> to not break too much while traveling and being busy drinking^Wspecing
<seb128> pitti, reuploaded should be in the queue soon
<pitti> merci
<robert_ancell> seb128, does anyone run lucid this early in the cycle?  I think it would be good to get some packages done so we can focus on bugs rather than uploading after UDS
<seb128> sorry about the # I though the tools were flexible enough to deal with that
<pitti> robert_ancell: only crazy people do
<robert_ancell> pitti, that's what I thought :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, those who do get what they deserve
<seb128> ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti, how do we deal with bzr once we've uploaded lucid packages and need to do a SRU?
<seb128> robert_ancell, we don't use bzr for the sru
<pitti> there's two options
<pitti> either just ignore it and don't commit
<pitti> or create a karmic branch and update Vcs-Bzr:
<pitti> i. e. /ubuntu -> /karmic
<robert_ancell> seb128, ok#
<pitti> for packages that get SRUs often, the latter might be nice
<seb128> I usually don't bother but right
<seb128> I tend to focus on SRU while I still run the stable
<seb128> ie until uds
<seb128> and then switch to the new version
<pitti> robert_ancell: as long as karmic == lucid version, you are welcome to just use the normal trunk, too
<pitti> which even reflects reality, given that we copy karmic-proposed to lucid in this case
<robert_ancell> pitti, ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you have any spec or topic you want to discuss for uds btw?
<seb128> just being curious
<seb128> I know other people will ask you for official records ;-)
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DocumentScanning
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/UserAccountManagement
<robert_ancell> and will work on a GDM one too
<robert_ancell> and interested in default packages (of course)
 * TheMuso examines the document scanning blueprint.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: scan a document and edit in a word processor implies OCR.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, yes - I've listed what I think all users want to do.  I don't expect that feature will be implemented/implementable in lucid
<TheMuso> So we will need an OCR engine in main.
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok.
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok good
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, but if I can I'd like to get it to work
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Right, I am happy to help here. It all depends on what scan stuff openoffice.org-writer supports, particularly the OCR backend it can work with.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, cool.  every time I look at ooo I just get scared :)
<TheMuso> Heh I think I would too.
<TheMuso> You have m interested in what scanning options ooo has.
<TheMuso> Ok it seems that the scanning stuff in OOo writer is for picture scanning.
 * didrocks is still striking with the ubuntu-fr remix :/
<seb128> didrocks, getting issues?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, size issue mainly :)
<didrocks> that's strange, my uncompress squashfs is smaller than ubuntu vanilla one
<didrocks> but using mksquashfs make the result bigger
<seb128> didrocks, weird, should be easier this cycle with documentation in langpacks
<didrocks> I might not use the magic compression option
<didrocks> ok, trying to recreate vanilla squashfs
<didrocks> just to compare size
<TheMuso> didrocks: What options are you passing to mksquashfs?
<didrocks> TheMuso: none
<TheMuso> hrm interesting.
<didrocks> TheMuso: the only option that seems to be interesting regarding size is -always-use-fragments
<TheMuso> Right, well the livefs creation script doesn't pass any options to mksquashfs either.
<TheMuso> Well, there is the -sort option, but that file is empty.
<didrocks> hum strange as I'm using karmic one
<didrocks> ok, yeah, recreating the vanilla squashfs give me the same size
<didrocks> it just seems that the extra space I have, even getting an uncompressed size smaller than compressed one, is less compressable
<TheMuso> didrocks: What are you adding to the squashfs?
<didrocks> TheMuso: French translation packages, removing other languages-related ones and a compressed pdf (30 MiB)
<didrocks> but the sum is 2028 Mio
<didrocks> and the vanilla squashfs is 2066
<didrocks> just seems it's harder to compress the added dataâ¦
<TheMuso> Right.
<pitti> good night everyone
<TheMuso> Night pitti./
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell I'm off my call
<didrocks> good night pitti
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
<rickspencer3> hope all is well
<rickspencer3> looks like a bit more action around Quickly yesterday ;)
<didrocks> all is well, thanks :)
<didrocks> yeah ^^
<didrocks> your talk was great :)
<rickspencer3> heh
<rickspencer3> did it not seem vaguely familiar?
<didrocks> a little ^^
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok
<rickspencer3> why is GPD driver under graphics?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: ok.
<rickspencer3> ok, so desktop team meeting Eastern edition
<rickspencer3> first we discussed review stuff, which is not relevant to either of you guys, because you already did it ;)
<TheMuso> Right.
<rickspencer3> then the rest of the meeting, pitti went around and ask us each to discuss potential blueprints that we might want to do for UDS (which is in less than 2 weeks :o) ;)
<rickspencer3> so, TheMuso ... thoughts on blueprints?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: At this point, there is nothing for me that is blueprintable, except perhaps getting the interested parties together to discuss how best to enable as much audio hadrware for lucid as possible.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, yep
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: My focus for this cycle will be bug fixing, with a lot of this work going to optimizing speech-dispatcher's pulseaudio output code, as that is well overdue to be done. Also making sure a11y works as well as it possibly can everywhere. Whilst upstrea are preparing to move to dbus for a11y, I want to stay with bonobo/orbit for lucid, since it works, and is stable.
<rickspencer3> though maybe some discussion of UI may be in order
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, what about accessability testing? maybe not worth a session
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Right, I am happy to be in on such discussions, but UI stuff is not my strong point.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Not worth a session, but I certainly need to get the community stuff happening, which is my plan in the next week and a half before UDS.
<rickspencer3> so maybe "Accessibility Community" topic?
<TheMuso> Yeah thats a good idea.
<rickspencer3> ok robert_ancell?
<robert_ancell> my specs are:
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DocumentScanning
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/UserAccountManagement
<robert_ancell> and doing gdm improvements (not yet speced but based off design teams Karmic spec)
<robert_ancell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/LoginExperience
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, right, gdm improvements includes the refactoring we discussed, right?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, will spec this week the details
<rickspencer3> wow
<rickspencer3> okay, thanks for that
<rickspencer3> so, that was the content of the meeting, more or less
<rickspencer3> I suppose you'll want to see what other people put in too
<rickspencer3> pitti will be compiling and driving us to UDS
<TheMuso> Great.
<TheMuso> So to sum up for myself, no new features/new crack, but hardware enablement where possible, and stabilising what we have even more.
<rickspencer3> and session with community team regarding accessibility community
<TheMuso> Yep
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, does saying "Accessibility Community" sound stupid? is there a better way to put it?
<rickspencer3> for me to put it, I mean?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Probably something like Ubuntu accessibility community
<rickspencer3> I'm thinking "the community of people who are passionate about accessibility"
<rickspencer3> ok
<TheMuso> Yeah that works
<rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> np
<wooboy77> hi!
<wooboy77> can someone help me pls?
<chrisccoulson> wooboy77 - #ubuntu for support
<jcastro> seb128, I have your battery!
<seb128> jcastro, you rock, thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-04
<cmdrqaz> howdy peeps
<cmdrqaz> anyone awake willing to give me some help?
<cmdrqaz> just did a fresh install on 9.10
<cmdrqaz> i have a dual monitor set up, got that working fine
<cmdrqaz> but in my old setup when i had a windows on the lets say right monitor, there would be the current window visible in the panel down the bottom
<cmdrqaz> but its currents showing in the panel on the left monitor
<cmdrqaz> how do i get it back to show on the comprehending monitor
<cmdrqaz> ?
<cmdrqaz> make sense?
<huats> morning
<TheMuso> Hey huats.
<huats> Hello TheMuso
<seb128> hello there
<Tm_T> hi hi
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning pitti
<seb128> hey pitti chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you today?
<seb128> good! you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad. i had less car drama on the journey to work today, at least
<baptistemm> heya
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: for updates to karmic, I need to do the 'affects distribution' + nomination thing, right?
<chrisccoulson> hay baptistemm
<chrisccoulson> /s/hay/hey
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, you're welcome
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<rodrigo_> :)
<baptistemm> good morning ladies and gentlemen
<pitti> rodrigo_: right
<didrocks> hey desktopers :)
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> did you manage to build your cd image?
<didrocks> yeah 698 Mb \o/
<didrocks> with simplecommeubuntu installed and a symlink on the desktop :)
<didrocks> I've now to update simplecommeubuntu package in universe too and ask for a sru
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: hi... i noted something similar to the gpm icon > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/397839/comments/46  , but that seems fixed in ATI , it seems more of an xorg issue than a gpm issue
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 397839 in gnome-power-manager "Screen randomly goes off in karmic" [Critical,Fix released]
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: also, see my comment #49  , if the users are getting the icon that might just mean the bug is hiding and not yet fixed in the xorg
<mac_v> hope that helps ;)
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - we have carried the X server patch that exposes that bug for some time though
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: yeah ,
<chrisccoulson> sorry, i meant the patch which fixes that bug
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: i got the icon even after the patch , so not sure if the patch was the full fix
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - the patch fixes the issue, but i think that the icon is appearing in cases where it shouldn;g
<chrisccoulson> in my case, it appears on inactive user sessions where g-p-m is not able to blank the display
<chrisccoulson> i'm going to spend some time investigating it anyway, as my girlfriend is quite concerned to read that her display is broken
<mac_v> lol... best motivator ;)
<chrisccoulson> (which is clearly not very good wording)
<seb128> slomo, hey, have you seen crashes similar to http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35086238/gdb-rhythmbox.txt?
<seb128> slomo, it's an user saying rhythmbox crashes on volume change
<slomo> seb128: yes, which gst-plugins-base version? this should be fixed since some time
<seb128> slomo, gstreamer0.10-plugins-base 0.10.25-2ubuntu1
<slomo> that's bad :)
<slomo> is it reproducible?
<seb128> it's bug #472909
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 472909 in rhythmbox "rhythmbox crashes on changing volume" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472909
<seb128> the submitter seems to be able to trigger it easily yes
<seb128> I don't get the issue there
<seb128> hi kwwii
<seb128> kwwii, is anybody working on the new wave theme?
<seb128> hi kwwii
<seb128> kwwii, is anybody working on the new wave theme?
<slomo> seb128: better forward that upstream
<seb128> slomo, ok thanks
<seb128> kwwii, Tm_T: stop using internet
<seb128> kwwii, Tm_T: stop using internet
<pitti> seb128: hm, what changed two weeks ago that has made you say everything twice?
<seb128> pitti, trying a different mode of focus which made me call previous command in IRC
<seb128> I think I will switch back to my click focus now
<seb128> focus changing when the mouse pointer moves is not for me
<seb128> I keep switching between IRC and command lines
<seb128> and when I move the mouse by mistake the focus go where it should not
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone (again)
 * seb128 kicks touchapd too to move cursor while I'm using the small pointer 
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> having touchpad issues again?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, having touchpad moving mouse cursor while I use the trackpoint
<seb128> ie I've finger on this round thing in the middle of the keyboard
<seb128> and my palm touch the touchpad
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for avoiding me creating Quickly blueprints :)
<seb128> it's getting annoying
<pitti> didrocks: I just create stubs, the bits that came up during the meeting; you still need to provide the flesh :)
<didrocks> pitti: and the code then, I guess? ;)
<didrocks> *ouch* ;)
<pitti> didrocks: you couldn't resist doing that yourself anyway :)
<didrocks> haha
 * chrisccoulson wishes people would not reply to digest messages without setting an appropriate subject
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: can be very annoying alright
<chrisccoulson> downloading a 27MB source tarball over 3G is painful!
<seb128> pitti, let me know when you have a minute to look at versions with me
<seb128> pitti, I updated the source to lucid rather than karmic but it might need a rename of the apt index and a sources.list change
<seb128> pitti, I would like to check that the update runs fine on your server
<pitti> seb128: I pulled and removed index/karmic; let me re-run and create the missing dirs
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> SystemError: E:You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list
<pitti> hmm
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just saw your e-mail to ubuntu-desktop. i was just planning to respond to your e-mail yesterday with a suggestion of cleaning up some of our packages/getting patches upstream, but you beat me to it ;)
<seb128> pitti, you will probably need to copy the sources.list manually
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I figured that there was maybe too much in the first email since nobody commented
<pitti> seb128: ah, it doesn't create index/lucid/etc/apt/sources.list manually?
<seb128> so let's start with easy tasks ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I don't think it does no
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i was planning to comment, but sometimes it takes me a while ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you are still welcome to comment
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good work on those SRU btw
<seb128> chrisccoulson, on the fixing and on the description the change, impact, etc
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - no problem :)
<pitti> seb128: running now
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> pitti, http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html, that didn't work apparently
<pitti> oops, I should rename it
<seb128> pitti, let it there or have both working please, I just sent an email with this url
<seb128> ok, clicking on + it has everything
<seb128> so small bug
<fredp> seb128, pitti: there's an error in devhelp upstream version detection, in that page.
 * seb128 looks into the issue
<pitti> ok, keeping old symlink then
<pitti> but it won't be correct for "karmic"
<pitti> seb128: copied back to karmic/
<seb128> pitti, right, thanks
<pitti> seb128: the + is weird, that didn't happen before
<pitti> seb128: the cron job bzr pulls automatically, so just commit and it should sort itself out
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks
<seb128> fredp, hum right, I will look into that too
<seb128> pitti, ok, no http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.lucid/desktop
<seb128> pitti, that's what is used to build the default list
<pitti> seb128: ah, where does it take its data from then?
<seb128> pitti, the list of sources to watch is in the versions.py file
 * pitti asks cjwatson
<seb128> the germinate list is only used to define the default set
<seb128> ie what to show in the default page
<seb128> and what in the "+" section
<seb128> no germinate = only extra items
<pitti> what defines the extra items?
<seb128> the things listed in versions.py but not in germinate
<seb128> the default list is an intersection of versions.py list and germinate desktop list
<seb128> and things out of the intersection are extra items
<seb128> ie right now germinate says desktop is empty so everything is in extra
<seb128> I will change back to the karmic germinate for now
<seb128> shouldn't make a real difference
<seb128> change pushed
<seb128> it should be ok in the next run
<pitti> thanks; I pinged colin about lucid germinate
<seb128> thank you
<seb128> fredp, it's a vuntz bug
<seb128> fredp, we use http://www.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-2.28
<mac_v> seb128: hi , this is not a theme bug > Bug #472659 , gvfs now does not change icons for the different  states
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 472659 in gvfs "Icons for unmounted media are the same for mounted (dup-of: 406377)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/472659
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406377 in gvfs "No distinct icons for mount and unmount" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406377
<vuntz> seb128: a vuntz bug? But I have no bug!
<seb128> mac_v, ok, I knew that was a duplicate and I figured theme guys would know
<seb128> vuntz, hey ;-)
<vuntz> what's the bug? :-)
<seb128> vuntz, the devhelp versions in your list
<seb128> it's outdated
<mac_v> seb128: hmm , why the bookmarks in the nautilus sidepane are below the filesystems and the drives... away from the desktop and home... gnome-panel , places menu seems to have a sane order.. is it to keep it similar to the gtk window?
<seb128> mac_v, dunno
<mac_v> hm...
<mac_v> vuntz: ^ any ideas about the nautilus sidepane[ or why gnome-panel is more sensible ] ;)
<vuntz> because the code is different? :-)
<vuntz> nautilus might try to do something clever
<mac_v> ;)
<vuntz> seb128: and it wasn't a vuntz bug, nah
<seb128> vuntz, which means you fixed it? ;-)
<seb128> there is no bug there *jedi wave*
<vuntz> yep, it's fixed
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, I'm unlock the retracers btw, if they crash don't bother it's my turn to look at those
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> de rien!
<seb128> unlocking
<rickspencer3> bonjour desktoppers
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> lut rickspencer3
<seb128> how are you?
<rickspencer3> bon
<rickspencer3> je sui bon
<rickspencer3> ?
<seb128> je vais bien
<seb128> bien
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> I said "I have beuty" maybe .. oops
<seb128> je suis bon = I rock
<seb128> or whatever you would say in english to say that you do good job
<rickspencer3> hmm
<rickspencer3> that's good to know
<rickspencer3> seb est bon
<rickspencer3> ?
<kenvandine> hey guys
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks ;-)
<seb128> (yes, correctly written)
<seb128> hello kenvandine, how are you?
<kenvandine> need more coffee, but good :)
<kenvandine> and you ?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<rickspencer3> seb128, and also correct
 * kenvandine is annoyed with virt-manager atm
<rickspencer3> chouette!
<seb128> starting to look at cleaning http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/karmic/versions.html
<seb128> rickspencer3, ;-)
<seb128> or rather http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html
<seb128> pitti, ^ the list looks fine now
<chrisccoulson> excellent, i should start some lucid work now:)
<chrisccoulson> unless there is anything else that wants looking at for karmic SRU's?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nothing really on my list no
<Laney> op hopping?
<seb128> IRC client config for easier op-ing rather ;-)
<seb128> working now
<seb128> I don't need to stay op btw
* seb128 changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to #ubuntu-desktop - home of the Desktop team - http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop/ | If you want to help out, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO, https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21439 or http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html | For support please join #ubuntu
<seb128> I needed it in the first place to change topic right
<seb128> lucid milestone there now
<seb128> and updated url for the versions list too
<seb128> not to self
<seb128> the x in the topic bar in xchat-gnome close the channel
<seb128> not the title
<istaz> :D
<seb128> not -> note
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti,  "HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized" do you know what create such retracer errors usually?
<pitti> seb128: no, they started to happen a few days ago, and I didn't try to track it down yet
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, is there a lpcookie there needed to write comments or something?
<seb128> which would be outdated
<pitti> I don't think so, since it does work for other bug reports
<seb128> ok
<pitti> the retracer closed dozens of dupes recently
 * seb128 removes lock
<seb128> let see if it works on a retry
<hggdh> one more bug -- bug 445435 -- this was originally set as a dup of bug 460710, but the problem still exists. Upstream fixed it on gtk+
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445435 in gtk+2.0 "evolution is hanging, if an email has a .tif attachment. " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445435
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 460710 in gtk2-engines-murrine "Evolution hangs when double-clicking on attachment" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460710
<seb128> hggdh, the probably is neither the theme nor the gtk one?
<hggdh> seb128: mbarnes fixed it on gtk itself. I intend to debdiff it against karmic and lucid, but will build a PPA for tests before proposing official changes
<hggdh> is this OK?
<seb128> hggdh, the change on bug #393534 is the fix from mbarnes
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393534 in gtk+2.0 "gtkiconview issue, evolution chokes when attaching files sometimes" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393534
<seb128> hggdh, no?
<hggdh> let me check
<seb128> hggdh, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/34957620/gtk.debdiff
<hggdh> yes indeed, they are the same. I will dup against 393534
<seb128> hggdh, note that the tif issue was dupped on the gtk one originally I think
<mac_v> seb128: is asac on vacation? users to say this Bug 386900 is not fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386900 in hundredpapercuts ""Auto eth0" , In notifications , is confusing for most people" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386900
<seb128> mac_v, yes for the week he is
<hggdh> seb128: no, it was dupped against 460710, this is what confused me
<hggdh> heh. It *was* originally dupped against 393534, but then you changed it to 460710 ;-)
<seb128> hggdh, see comment #15
<mac_v> seb128: hmm , does the notification for you also still display "eth0" ? [i'm not able to check that , i dont use a wired connection]
<hggdh> seb128: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/445435/+activity
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 445435 in gtk+2.0 "evolution is hanging, if an email has a .tif attachment. " [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> mac_v, dunno I'm on wireless right now
<mac_v> lol ;)
<seb128> hggdh, right, see comment #15
<seb128> hggdh, could be yet another bug and none of those two
<seb128> hggdh, could be yet another bug and none of those two
<hggdh> yes, it could
<hggdh> and sounds like it :-(
<seb128> or he didn't test correctly the upgrade
<hggdh> maybe. I am asking him to send me such an email, and then I will be able to test locally
<seb128> thanks
 * seb128 does a work break
<seb128> be back in a bit
<seb128> pitti, robert_ancell has an another totem sru ready to upload
<seb128> pitti, what do you prefer to do? put it in the queue now? wait for the current on to move to updates?
<pitti> seb128: I think upload it now, with -v
<seb128> pitti, ok, doing that
<pitti> seb128: the previous one is 6 days old, but has zero verification
<seb128> pitti, ok
<seb128> pitti, the new one fixes youtube which seems to be something lot of user want to use
<seb128> we get a dup a day since karmic
<seb128> I would have though most people were browsing it in a web browser
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good evening
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> good thanks, you?
<seb128> did you have some sru changes pending upload?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm not too bad - just waiting for the end of the working day now ;)
<chrisccoulson> i've still got a g-s-d update pending upload
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, you didn't subscribe sponsors?
<seb128> I don't find it on http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/index.html
<seb128> but I though I had read a bug comment with a debdiff earlier
 * seb128 look in his launchpad email box
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i subscribed ubuntu-sru, as it hasn't had approval from anybody yet
<seb128> it's the other way around
<seb128> or I think it should be the other way around
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wasn't sure really
<seb128> subscribe sponsors and the sponsor will subscribe the sru team on upload
<chrisccoulson> normally i just ping pitti, but it was late last night ;)
<seb128> ok, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35063102/gnome-settings-daemon_2.28.1-0ubuntu2.debdiff gotcha
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw feel free to commit those changes to bzr normally too
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can do that when i get in from work. i wasn't sure how we handled bzr branches with SRU's. do we have separate karmic branches now? (i suppose it doesn't matter in this particular case, as it will just get copied to lucid anyway)
<seb128> robert_ancell asked yesterday
<seb128> we don't have consistent rule
<seb128> if karmic version = lucid one, no question, just commit to bzr
<seb128> if karmic version = lucid one, no question, just commit to bzr
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's what confuses me a bit. in this case though, i think it's a bit easier
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll commit this one when i arrive home
<seb128> if that's not the case either create a new bzr and update control
<seb128> or don't bother using bzr just add the debdiff to the bug
<seb128> I tend to not bother if there is not lot of changes scheduled
<seb128> chrisccoulson, don't bother I'm commiting the debdiff now
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the crash issue, did you upstream it yet?
<mac_v> and471: hey.. you marked Bug 386900 as fix released but users are saying its not fixed... you tested it on a fresh install or upgrade? could you comment on the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386900 in hundredpapercuts ""Auto eth0" , In notifications , is confusing for most people" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386900
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet. i'll report it upstream later, but i want to think of a better long-term fix really which closes the dialog when the volume is removed. that type of fix would be too intrusive for a SRU though
<mac_v> and471: do subscribe to any bug you comment ;)
<and471> mac_v: probably not :-)
<mac_v> and471: i meant>  *do* subscribe... as in> "always subscribe"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, g-s-d uploaded
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<chrisccoulson> right, time for me to leave work now
<seb128> thank you for doing all the work ;-)
<seb128> see you later!
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok ;)
<chrisccoulson> bbl
<seb128> seems that pitti has been tackling some email backlog today ;-)
<and471> mac_v: I cannot test it, I am on wireless :-) However whn I tested it in a virtual machine around mid-way karmic, it was working..
<mac_v> seb128: since he responded to your mail? ;p
<seb128> not only, also to the bugs I subscribed him too
<seb128> but yes ;-)
<mac_v> ;)
<and471> ANYONE: if you are a wired connection, could you unconnect, then reconnect and take a screenshot of what the notification looks like (the connection notification that is)
<mac_v> and471: but did you test earlier , when you marked it released?
<and471> mac_v: yes
<mac_v> oh , late comment
<mvo> and471: I merge the bit you asked me about yesterday btw, was just a odd merge
<and471> mac_v: how many papercuts were fixed this cycle?
<and471> mvo: okay thanks :-)
<mac_v> and471: its a dont ask dont tell policy... ;p
<mac_v> and471: so dont ask ;p
<and471> mac_v: hehe
<seb128> mac_v, and471: http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/notifyosd.png
<seb128> mac_v, and471: http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/notifyosd.png
<seb128> that's on a karmic iso booted in kvm
<and471> seb128: thankyou
<seb128> you're welcome
<and471> mac_v: so looks like it hasn't been fixed :-(
<and471> mac_v: maybe a regression?
<mac_v> seb128: thanks... and471 -> argh :/
<mac_v> and471: lol , what regression?
<and471> mac_v: well when I looked at it, I really think it was solved :-/
<and471> mac_v: maybe I was tired ?
<mac_v> and471: did you try again in the VW?
 * mac_v missing asac :(  
<and471> mac_v: VW?
<and471> mac_v: ^ hehe
<mac_v> and471: virtualbox?
<mac_v> i i mean VM!
<and471> mac_v: I haven't tried again yet
<and471> mac_v: don't really have time
<rickspencer3> didrocks, people are actually using Quickly!
<rickspencer3> I saw we got a good merge proposal today
<mac_v> mpt: is Bug 386900 fixed for you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386900 in network-manager ""Auto eth0" , In notifications , is confusing for most people" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386900
<mpt> mac_v, yes
<mac_v> mpt: odd , seb128 and thorwil dont seem to have it fixed
<mac_v> aw ,crap! , i just changed the status
<mac_v> mpt:  http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/notifyosd.png
<seb128> ^ it's a screenshot from a karmic iso booted in kvm
<mpt> hm
<mpt> brb
<mpt> mac_v, ugh, I just got "Auto eth2 Connection Established"
<mpt> I guess it's not fixed
<mac_v> mpt: yeah , the upstream task hasnt even been touched... :(
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, that's a good news  :) (even if my trunk already contained this patch ;)). That's great \o/
<hggdh> will packages from multiverse block apport ("not an original Ubuntu package" error)?
<seb128> hggdh, should not
<seb128> hggdh, but I can confirm the empathy issue
<hggdh> oh you looking at the -bugs?
<seb128> hggdh, need to ping pitti about that when he will be around, he seems to be away now
<seb128> hggdh, yes
<hggdh> seb128: will do
<hggdh> do you have the bug#?
<seb128> hggdh, what bug? no
<seb128> hggdh, I just confirm that ubuntu-bug empathy breaks
<hggdh> oh, OK
<seb128> but it might be because I did built it locally and didn't reinstall the archive version
<seb128> hggdh, pitti: sorry for the noise was a local install
<pitti> re
<pitti> seb128: what's up?
<seb128> pitti, nothing
<seb128> pitti, an user add apport refusing to report a bug against empathy
<seb128> pitti, it's because he used the karmic-proposed version without karmic-proposed source
<seb128> I guess apport rely on you having a source providing the deb
<seb128> add -> had
<pitti> yes, otherwise you can't determine the origin
<seb128> right, I figured the issue after pinging
<seb128> so basically unping ;-)
<hggdh> so the deb-src corresponding to the package has to be active? Is this the default for apt?
<hggdh> or only for -proposed?
<seb128> hggdh, no, the deb
<seb128> not deb-src
<seb128> he got the deb manually there or commented the source after installing
<hggdh> oh, OK
 * hggdh is *very* slow, mentally speaking, today
<pitti> good night everyone
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - currently, the only effect of the crash in bug 429322 is that a crash report appears (as the crash occurs when seahorse-agent exits). with apport disabled by default, is it worth a SRU? theoretically, we should see this one reported less often now, and there aren't any other side effects
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<chrisccoulson> obviously, it's not so good if lots of people enable apport
<crevette> why debugfs is mounted (/sys/kernel/debug) in my karmic installation, is it a normal behaviour?
<cherva> can anyone help me fix my nautilus after the upgrade to 9.10 ? When I try to start it I get this http://pastebin.com/d3c19348
<crevette> I guess you didn't upgraded properly
<crevette> you have an older glib
<cherva> crevette: how to fix it ? I had errors about gnome-themes, gnome-accessibility-themes and gnome-themes-selected - http://pastebin.com/d4d9c8804
<crevette> how did you upgrade
<seb128> cherva, ldd /usr/bin/nautilus | grep libglib
<seb128> cherva, ldd /usr/bin/nautilus | grep libglib
<crevette> the missing symbosl is a new one introduces in latest glib
<cherva> libglib-2.0.so.0 => /usr/local/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 (0x003f9000)
<seb128> there you go
<crevette> ouch
<cherva> crevette: I upgraded from the update manager
<seb128> you did a make install of an old lib
<seb128> classic error
<seb128> you don't use the distribution version but a copy you installed
<seb128> clean it and you should be fine
<cherva> seb128: you mean the libglib2.0-0 package ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> I mean you did build and install a glib version at some point by yourself out of the packaging system
<seb128> you might have forgotten about it but it's still in the local dir
<seb128> and it's taking over the ubuntu version
<seb128> and breaking things for you
<cherva> seb128: I'm not sure how to remove it ...
<seb128> cherva, you did install it you should know how to remove it
<cherva> seb128: I don't remember when I did this .... my machine is upgrading since 6.10
<seb128> cherva, sudo rm /usr/local/libglibÃ¹
<seb128> cherva, sudo rm /usr/local/libglib*
<seb128> you probably want to clean other things there too
<seb128> I can't advice you to delete everything since I don't know what you installed and why
<cherva> seb128: I'll check this
<crevette> wow, I've uploaded a package in ppa which will be build in two days :)
<lifeless> james_w: thank you. For some reason I don't recall seeing that answer ever.
<james_w> lifeless: slightly more in depth this time :-)
<james_w> I found my reply to the first mail though
<lifeless> james_w: I'll sit and read, I think a howto is needed :P
<cherva> seb128: now what ? install libglib from the repo ?
<james_w> lifeless: well, it's supposed to be transparent
<seb128> cherva, no, just run nautilus
<cherva> seb128: same error
<james_w> you only want one because you care about the implementation details :-)
<seb128> cherva, sudo rm /usr/local/* -r
<seb128> just clean everything there
<seb128> if you don't have anything installed you use
<lifeless> james_w: there is a disconnect here
<lifeless> james_w: transparent => dead easy to use is great. Knowing the feature exists and how to make sure it works is a matter of education
<cherva> seb128: thanks
<seb128> cherva, you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> going to the supermarket at this time of the evening is never a good ieda
<chrisccoulson> s/ieda/idea
<chrisccoulson> i always pick up something really bad
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you have supermarked open that late?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, where do you live? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - we have supermarkets open all night ;)
<chrisccoulson> i live in birmingham. well, near birmingham...
<chrisccoulson> night time is the best time to shop!
<Laney> there are a lot of 24 hour supermarkets in the uk
<seb128> cultural differences
<seb128> there is not a lot of things open after 7pm there
<seb128> and I don't think anything after 9pm
<chrisccoulson> yeah, most shops on retail parks seem to shut around 8pm here, and high-street shops tend to close around 6pm
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, TheMuso good morning
<chrisccoulson> but we have quite a lot of 24 hour supermarkets, which are sometimes useful
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, night time _is_ the best!
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i'm definately a night-time person!
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
 * seb128 starts hating bugs again
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - have you looked any more at bug 429322?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<robert_ancell> seb128 - you stopped hating bugs?
<seb128> I didn't look at those so much for a few months
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, it's deep down in gconf/orbit somewhere - something must be assuming the x server is still around.
<seb128> I do for a week
<seb128> I got some 4300 bug emails in a week
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - yeah, it seems that way
<seb128> I did read those all but I'm saturating now
<seb128> I need to do something else tomorrow
<robert_ancell> seb128, we need some bots to go around closing stuff...
<seb128> what I really want is a "I don't care" button
<seb128> I would use it on 80% of bugs
<seb128> there is really some 15% interesting ones
<seb128> and some feature requests too
<seb128> so many "bugs" which are user questions
<seb128> or duplicates
<seb128> or one time weird issues
<seb128> or so minor corner cases
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - the way it exits is seriously messed up. when it exits, global_client_free() is called, which frees the global GConfClient. Then, seahorse_agent_uninit() is called, which unregisters some gconf notifies, which causes the global GConfClient to get allocated again (after it was already freed), and it does all the gconf_client_add_dir() stuff that it does when it initializes
<chrisccoulson> it's really weird :-/
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, eech
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - global_client_free() and seahorse_agent_uninit() are registered as exit handlers with atexit()
<chrisccoulson> so they always get called when the X connection dies, but they are registered in the wrong order really
<chrisccoulson> this orbit stuff is way over my head though
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, yeah we need the gconf replacement so we don't have to look at it :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, orbit sucks :(
<chrisccoulson> do gconf clients need a working X connection to add notifies then?
<chrisccoulson> if that's the case, then the fix is to not attempt to do any gconf stuff when the X connection dies, as it's already too late to do anything then
<chrisccoulson> or, as mclasen pointed out yesterday, seahorse-agent needs to become a proper session agent
<chrisccoulson> and not run from /etc/X11/Xsession.d
<robert_ancell> seb128, thanks for putting the debdiffs for the totem changes.  There are too many people changing that bug!
<seb128> robert_ancell, you're welcome
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw please subscribe sponsors to your bugs that need sponsoring
<seb128> that will make things easier to track
<seb128> if I stop reading those thousand bug emails I will stop noticing your changes too
<robert_ancell> seb128, I subscribed ubuntu-sru - isn't that correct?
<seb128> no, ubuntu-sru is those who accept the upload
<seb128> subscribe the sponsors
<seb128> the sponsor will subscribe sru
<seb128> not sure if that's clear ;-)
<seb128> the sponsor will decide if that's worth a sru and upload for you
<seb128> the sru team will accept things in the queue
<robert_ancell> I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates which says subscribe ubuntu-sru
<seb128> btw sru bugs should have testcases and debdiff usually
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I keep forgetting debdiffs
<seb128> robert_ancell, the wikipage seems to not consider sponsoring cases
<robert_ancell> seb128, so it's written from the point of view of someone with upload privileges?
<seb128> well, steps 3 and 4 go together
<robert_ancell> ah, ok
<seb128> you can subscribe the sru team but subscribe sponsors too
<seb128> sru do review
<seb128> they don't do uploads
<seb128> ie they will not have something to review and wait for you to upload
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on whether ubuntu-sru should be subscribed before or after upload, ie if you or the sponsor should do it
<seb128> I tend to do it after update
<seb128> to not make them waste time until things are ready
<seb128> ie if you subscribe the sru team they will get sponsor comments about things you did wrong too
<seb128> I prefer to get them in the loop when their input is required
<seb128> ie after upload
<seb128>  
<seb128> other topic
<seb128> robert_ancell, have you seen my new ubuntu-desktop email today?
<seb128> the versions page has been updated for lucid
<seb128> and merge season has opened ;-)
<seb128> I didn't update the gnome version list to 2.30 yet though
<seb128> we should maybe do that too
<robert_ancell> seb128, yes - lets go!!
<seb128> feel free to do changes
<seb128> the server side to pull before running updates
<seb128> to -> do
<seb128> so if you push changes they will be there on the next run
<chrisccoulson> i need to start on some merges rather than spending all my time on SRU's!
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh good, I can stop bugging you guys to update it :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no hurry for lucid if you still have things you think should be srued in karmic
<seb128> I think we did address the most annoying issues which we can change in srus now
<seb128> or rather the annoying one which got user traction
<seb128> I've no doubt there is many things annoying some users left
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think a lot of issues are sorted now
<chrisccoulson> i'm trying to figure out this seahorse-agent crash at the moment
<seb128> is that a logout crash?
<seb128> ie something nobody would notice if apport was not running?
<seb128> we should try to teach apport to ignore those
<seb128> or at least to detect those and note it in the bug
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm fairly convinced it's just a logout crash
<chrisccoulson> the crash occurs when the X connection dies
<seb128> don't waste too much efforts on it
<chrisccoulson> so i don't think that users would notice it if apport wasn't running
<robert_ancell> seb128, how do I make the sources.list to make version work?  It needs some lucid entries
<seb128> robert_ancell, copy the karmic one and change karmic to lucid
<robert_ancell> seb128, ah, edit index/lucid/etc/apt/sources.list?
<seb128> yes
<seb128_> grrrr trackpads
<seb128_> robert_ancell, did you fix your sources.list issue?
<robert_ancell> seb128_, what is the debian release we are tracking?
<seb128_> you didn't read my email!!!
<seb128_> unstable
<robert_ancell> I mean the URI :)
<seb128_> the debian source didn't change
<seb128_> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable main
<seb128_> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ ../project/experimental main
<seb128_> deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable main
<seb128_> deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ ../project/experimental main
<joaopinto> aren't we tracking testing for lucid ?
<seb128_> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted universe multiverse
<seb128_> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main restricted universe multiverse
<seb128_> joaopinto, as I wrote in my email today GNOME is maintained enough and uptodate enough in ubuntu that we will use unstable
<seb128_> unstable has GNOME 2.28 and we will aim at GNOME 2.30 anyway in lucid
<joaopinto> ah ok, did knew there were exceptions :)
<joaopinto> didn't
<seb128_> well the default is testing
<seb128_> but then it's up to anybody to decide for the things he,she is working on
<robert_ancell> seb128_, ah, fixed.  Needed to check in the lucid sources.list, forgot the debian one was already checked in
<seb128_> robert_ancell, ok good
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i think i can see what triggers the seahorse-agent crash now
<robert_ancell> seb128_, I'm thinking of making a script that parses gnome FTP and LP updates so we can update versions in near real time
<seb128_> robert_ancell, you mean something to run on client side?
<chrisccoulson> liborbit calls g_atexit(shutdown_orb) at some point when seahorse-agent starts
<robert_ancell> seb128_, server side
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, cool!
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, ycuk
<robert_ancell> tuck
<robert_ancell> yuck
 * robert_ancell can type good
<chrisccoulson> and shutdown_orb() is called on exit before seahorse_agent_exit() is called
<seb128_> robert_ancell, what updates do you want to parse there?
<robert_ancell> seb128_, email from gnome-ftp and LP
<chrisccoulson> seahorse_agent_exit() tries to do some gconf stuff, which probably fails miserably once shutdown_orb() has been called
<seb128_> the rss feeds for gnome updates?
<seb128_> hum, why not
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, I'm sure it doesn't like that :)
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - so Xorg dying is actually a red-herring. the crash will occur whenever exit() is called from any code path
<chrisccoulson> which still probably makes it a non-issue for karmic really
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, but does it restart?  I got some of the reporters to check if it was running after the problem and they said no
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i think it only crashes on shutdown doesn't it?
<chrisccoulson> the crash report at the start of the session could be from their previous session
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-05
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - so, this crash might be a gconf issue
<chrisccoulson> when an application calls gconf_client_add_dir for the first time, there should eventually be a call to CORBA_ORB_init
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, right
<chrisccoulson> but this never gets called again because it assumes it remains initialized
<chrisccoulson> even after shutdown_orb is called
<chrisccoulson> in gconf_get_config_listener()
<chrisccoulson> thats the interesting bit
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i'm going to have to stop looking at this for tonight, else i will never sleep
<chrisccoulson> it will take me the whole night just to wind down ;)
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, sleep on it! :)
<chrisccoulson> i should comment on the bug report really, else i will just forget it all by morning ;)
<Amaranth> hmm, that seahorse bug sounds like a fun bug compiz used to have with gconf
<amin888> i need some help.... i installed nvidia driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-190.42-pkg1.run manually for GeForce 7300 LE since Hardware Drivers show empty driver... the installation is succefull and i can play 3D game... but i can't have compiz started ???
<amin888> btw this is for Ubuntu 9.10
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<pitti> hey didrocks
<mpt> mvo, good morning. Should software-center trunk still work on 9.10?
<mvo> mpt: yes
<mvo> mpt: is it not for you?
<mpt> mvo, no, I get "NameError: global name 'os' is not defined" whenever navigating to an application screen
<mpt> File "/home/mpt/hacking/software-center/softwarecenter/distro/aptutils.py", line 36, in get_release_date_from_release_file
<mvo> mpt: oh, give me a sec
<mvo> mpt: I fix that
<mvo> mpt: r420
<mpt> mvo, that's changed the error: it's now "NameError: global name 'datetime' is not defined"
<mpt> mvo, File "/home/mpt/hacking/software-center/softwarecenter/distro/Ubuntu.py", line 122, in get_maintenance_status
<mvo> mpt: heh :) let me switch to a karmic machine to test
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mpt> mvo, on another topic, I don't see a 1.0 branch on the Branches page. Should there be one? Or is lp:ubuntu/karmic/software-center enough for that?
<mvo> mpt: the karmic branch is the 1.0 branch, we can create a explicit name if you prefer that
<chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> good thanks - it's nearly the weekend :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<mpt> mvo, I don't mind, just as long as there's somewhere to apply critical 1.0.x fixes if there are any (and to turn on the angled path button by default, perhaps)
 * seb128 wonder if chrisccoulson ever sleep, he's up after everybody and already there in the morning too
 * seb128 wonder if chrisccoulson ever sleep, he's up after everybody and already there in the morning too
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good thank you
<chrisccoulson> heh, i don't sleep very much ;)
<chrisccoulson> although i have been to bed before 2am several times recently
<mvo> mpt: please try r421
<mpt> mvo, that works, thanks :-)
<seb128> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in five minutes. "
<seb128> urg
<mvo> mpt: is this  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1.0-available-category.jpg still desired? or will that change again for 2.0 ? otherwise I give it a short at implementing it now
 * mvo wants something more exciting than bug triage
<seb128> mvo, launchpad is going down so you will be forced into it ;-)
<seb128> mvo, there is plenty of merges and updates too
<mpt> mvo, I'd give that a 60% probability, though I need to discuss the layout with ivanka
<mpt> mvo, there are other things that are both more certain and probably more exciting :-)
<mvo> mpt: what do you have in mind ?
<mvo> mpt: for 60% I won't start
<mpt> fair enough -- one moment
<pitti> seb128: FYI, versions.py failed over night (for some mystical reason index/lucid/var was removed completely)
<pitti> running now
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> grrrr at robert_ancell
<seb128> hard to make him things he has not interest in
<seb128> he started full steam on 2.29 but doesn't seem to care about merging on debian
<seb128> let's wait for him to join tonight ;-)
<mpt> mvo, there's this <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#cancel-bar>
<mvo> you promisied "more exciting"
<mpt> mvo, or this <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Handling%20an%20externally-changed%20apt%20cache>
<mpt> oh, foo
<mpt> The intersection of {more exciting} and {fully specified} is mainly Clutter animations
<mpt> at the moment
<mpt> <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#%E2%80%9CWhere%20Is%20It?%E2%80%9D%20button> and <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Animation%20of%20the%20main%20pane>
<mvo> mpt: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1.0-installed-home.jpg (as a treeview) still the plan?
<mvo> mpt: what will it do when packages are activated? still a treeview?
<mpt> mvo, that's subject to the same 60% certainty -- if we change how we present departments, the "Installed Software" section will change to look much more similar to the "Get Software" section
<mvo> mpt: ok
<chrisccoulson> was there an announcement for LP going offline?
<chrisccoulson> (or perhaps it just got lost in my inbox)
<seb128> I didn't read one
<chrisccoulson> i can't find one either
<chrisccoulson> it seems we never get announcements any more
<huats> morning
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hello seb128 !
<seb128> cassidy, hey
<seb128> cassidy, should we sync telepathy-gabble 0.9.2 in lucid?
<seb128> ie is that the right version for this cycle?
<cassidy> seb128, this version still have regressions comparing to the 0.8.x branch but hopefully that should be fixed for the Lucid release
<seb128> hum
<seb128> seems a "no" ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<cassidy> and we'll probably use new feature from this version in Emapthy 2.30 so I'd say to go for it
<seb128> well
<cassidy> tbh, the main regression is the proxy support which has always be broken so...
<seb128> "should be fixed" is not good for a lts
<cassidy> oh, LTS, right
<seb128> we need to aim for something which will be stable by lucid time
<seb128> not something which might be in the middle of unstable serie
<cassidy> you can keep 0.8 for now and I'll let you know when we think 0.9 is good enough to replace it
<seb128> thanks
<cassidy> 0.8.x is still well maintained as that's the version shipped with Maemo 5
<seb128> cassidy, is empathy supposed to unhide the list on the same workspace it was?
<seb128> or on the current workspace?
<seb128> when you click on the notification area icon
<seb128> using compiz
<cassidy> ahah, good question. IIRC we uses gtk_window_present() whose behaviour is unclear
<seb128> if that makes a different
<cassidy> and depends of your WM
<seb128> ok
<cassidy> (I know that sucks)
<seb128> dunno what pidgin do but that works
<seb128> it open the list on the workspace where you are
<seb128> the empathy behaviour is driving me crazy
<seb128> I work on several workspace and the list never opens where I'm working
<cassidy> we have lot of troubles with that; seems lot of WM are broken
<Zdra> seb128, I really want some WM guru to take a look
<cassidy> seb128, do you have that in house? :)
<Zdra> seb128, because IMO it is *all* WM that are broken
<Zdra> and each version is broken in a different way
<cassidy> I just tried and the contact list appear on the active desktop
<cassidy> (metacity)
<seb128> the best wm guru we have there is Amaranth
<Zdra> rb/pidgin does ugly hacks to position the window
<seb128> dunno what hack they do but that works mostly
<seb128> you could maybe copy some of those
<cassidy> seb128, some help on this issue would be really appreciated
<seb128> alright
<Zdra> seb128, they reposition manually the window on the desktop and the position/size
<seb128> noting that for sprint and UDS
<Zdra> which should be useless
<seb128> but we don't have wm gurus either
<cassidy> we'd prefer to have the bugged code fixed properly (in Empathy, WM, ...) than adding more hack
<seb128> that's not going to happen though
<cassidy> afaik it works fine with metacity
<Zdra> cassidy, that's what I keep saying for years... but really that need WM guru to look into. I don't know enough how it works
<seb128> it's an user story fail for empathy meanwhile
<Zdra> I'm prepared to be told empathy is doing something wrong, but I would like to know the real reasons, not just pull hacks to make it work by hiding the real defect
<seb128> cassidy, the issue is that as you said the gtk function behaviour is not defined
<seb128> and the gtk issue is open for years
<cassidy> we already tried different hack and they always fix one case and broke others
<seb128> I appreciate you don't want to have hacks but meanwhile your software look buggy compared to others
<Zdra> tbh I almost never had any problem using ubuntu with metacity and its compositor
<seb128> Zdra, the main issue is that the gtk call behaviour is not defined
<Zdra> but other users report problems even in the exact same configuration... that's crazy
<seb128> ie should present bring you to the dialog, bring the dialog to you or just raise it
<seb128> it's let to the wm to decide right now
<seb128> so with some wm you will get the dialog on your workspace
<seb128> some others will change the active workspace
<seb128> some others will make it claim for attention in the taskbar
<Zdra> seb128, the biggest problem reported by users is that the window position is reset to left/top corner after unhide the window
<seb128> there is that issue
<Zdra> seb128, and that is not supposed to be WM-dependent, the position really should be remembered
<seb128> and the fact that using compiz it doesn't show it on the right workspace
<seb128> I will put it on the lucid list of issues so we look at it
<Zdra> seb128, for the move to desktop, give focus, etc, I can understand empathy should do it, because it is not guaranteed by gtk_window_present
<seb128> but I think you will have to workaround in empathy
<seb128> the gtk behaviour not being defined is the issue
<seb128> and it will require spec changes and gtk changes
<seb128> which I doubt will happen quickly
<cassidy> Zdra, did we try to use the same hacks as rb ?
<Zdra> cassidy, no
<Zdra> cassidy, I saw it and told "I don't want to be responsible of such a hack"
<cassidy> maybe that's something we should try
<seb128> let's be pragmatic in some case hacks are required to make the user experience good
<cassidy> yeah :(
<Zdra> IIRC other app does gtk_window_hide() gtk_window_show() instead of gtk_window_present() to be sure it is forced to be moved to current ws
<seb128> I will try to see what we can do for a proper fix there
<seb128> but as said if that require xdg spec changes and gtk changes it will take a while
<seb128> so meanwhile we will want to workaround
<seb128> Zdra, seems to be a good way if that works
<Zdra> seb128, tbh the whole concept of window hiding in the status icon is not well supported in GNOME
<Zdra> seb128, note that even rb is not unbreakable, I already had window possition issues with it ;)
<Zdra> I think the best hack is in piding
<Zdra> pidgin
<Zdra> best in the sense of works the best, not the nicer
<seb128> right
<seb128> as said pidgin seems to work fine for users
<seb128> ie we get no complain about it
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> Laney, do you want to sru the new f-spot update?
<seb128> to sru = to work on the sru changes
<Laney> seb128: yeah, maybe tomorrow
<seb128> Laney, ok thanks
<pitti> chrisccoulson: would you have some time for another SRU? (bug 463353)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463353 in system-tools-backends "[users-admin] Modifying user password has no effect" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463353
<pitti> sorry for delegating, SRU management and UDS planning pretty much eat all my time these days
<pitti> or seb128?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i can take a look at that
<chrisccoulson> do you want to assign it to me? (i'm just about to go for lunch)
<seb128> pitti, I will let chrisccoulson look at this one, I have only today left as work day before sprint and uds
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks muchly; will do
<mvo> asac: around?
<seb128> mvo, he's on vac for the week
<mvo> *pff*
<mvo> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome
<seb128> mvo, what you mean by *pff* is *slacker* right? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: I just wanted his feedback on the "XB-Restart-Required idea
<mvo> seb128: yeah
<mvo> :P
<seb128> what is that?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> you want to be able to know in advance what will need a restart
 * seb128 switches channel for the discussion
<seb128> urg
<seb128> pitti, there is 2181 i386 crash bug in the retracer queue
 * seb128 look to the amd64 one
<rickspencer3> bonjour seb128 what's the matter?
<seb128> hey rickspencer3
<seb128> rickspencer3, just 2181 crash bugs in launchpad which have not been retraced yet
<seb128> on i386
<rickspencer3> *sigh*
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - they're not all seahorse-agent crashes are they?
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could be, we will know when they will be retraced...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, still looking for bugs?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't think we're going to get away without fixing the seahorse-agent crash - the crash reports are still flying in quite quickly even with apport disabled by default
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you have any bugs in mind?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #442130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 442130 in gvfs "Custom fstab causes duplicate entries for partitions in Places" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/442130
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we should add a bug pattern for the seahorse crash
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that would block bug filing pointing to the open bug
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be a good idea
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll take a look at that gvfs one later as well then
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> 892 amd64 crash bugs to retrace
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - are you not here next week?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I will be traveling on monday and then be on us time
<seb128> and sprinting
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<seb128> I will probably be there but on different hours
<chrisccoulson> it's going to be quiet in here next week
<seb128> and not as much as I usually do
<chrisccoulson> i'll probably have a baby by the time you arrive back from the US. when she decides that she wants to arrive!
<seb128> oh right
<seb128> you are going to have short nights for other reasons soon ;-)
<seb128> you are going to have short nights for other reasons soon ;-)
<seb128> ups
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, when we stop seeing you everyday, we will assume the baby came :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i think i should just forget about sleep entirely!
<kenvandine> sleep is overrated
<chrisccoulson> that's what i keep telling people ;)
<chrisccoulson> but sometimes i feel like i could sleep at work
<chrisccoulson> probably not the best place to fall asleep ;)
<kenvandine> hehe
 * kenvandine was replacing the brakes on my car at midnight last night... i would rather have been sleeping... but if i am hacking on stuff i would prefer that to sleep :)
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine - i take it you have a source of light to be able to work on your car that late at night?
<chrisccoulson> i can't do anything to mine at the moment, as it's dark when i get back from work
<kenvandine> garage
<kenvandine> i need a bright portable light though
<kenvandine> the overhead lights aren't great for working under fenders :)
 * kenvandine has some busted up knuckles today from not being able to see well
<pitti> seb128: ugh
<pitti> seb128: does it keep breaking on the same bug, or does it make progress?
<seb128> pitti, it makes progress
<seb128> pitti, retraced 50 bugs between the 2 recent restart
<pitti> ok, and today's crashes were due to the LP rollout, I guess
<seb128> I'm suprised we keep getting so many crash bugs
<seb128> is apport still on in karmic?
<seb128> pitti, they crash every hour
<seb128> gateway errors
<seb128> or permission errors
<Laney> seb128: what's the bug # for the unclickable button in --view mode?
<seb128> Laney, bug #448162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448162 in f-spot "sidebars pictures are not clickable" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448162
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> testbuilding
<seb128> thank you
<pitti> rickspencer3: do you know whom to subscribe to a bug report about "Add Service Tag and support URL in System Monitor"?
<pitti> rickspencer3: (someone from OEM?)
<rickspencer3> yes, bfox
<pitti> thanks
<Amaranth> eep I'm subscribed to a blueprint for a UDS session
<pitti> Amaranth: I just subscribed you, yes
<Amaranth> I'm not going to be there :P
<pitti> thought you were interested in following/commenting on the blueprint
<Amaranth> sure
<Amaranth> cube by default == no way :)
<seb128> what blueprint?
<pitti> Amaranth: if you aren't, please unsubscribe again and accept my apology about the spam
<seb128> oh, set of effects to use
<pitti> Amaranth: see, that's why I subscribe you :)
<rickspencer3> cube by default == yea baby
<rickspencer3> also, flaming cursor
<pitti> rickspencer3: it looks ridiculous on slower hw, though
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: we'd have to switch to 4 workspaces by default too
<seb128> pitti, don't fall into the troll
<Amaranth> hehe
<pitti> see, the subscription was useful :)
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<seb128> ;-)
 * pitti ignores the flamewar^Wbikeshed^Wdiscussion and goes on with planning
<Amaranth> There are some things we should change though...
<Amaranth> for example, the video plugin is completely useless
<rickspencer3> I thought the "flaming cursor" part was a bit of give away
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: I liked that part
<rickspencer3> Amaranth, anything we can remove to speed up load time?
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: You can test my branch to speed up load time and see if that helps :)
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> tbh, I would like to turn on the cube if possible
<rickspencer3> but sounds like there will be some serious issue
<Amaranth> otherwise if we strip plugins we consider worthless it could help a little too
<Amaranth> less for it try to find
<rickspencer3> but when I show the cube, it gets people really interested
<seb128> would it make a difference to put everything now on by default in an -extra binary
<seb128> and have that not installed?
<seb128> now -> not
<rickspencer3> maybe add Cube to the High Level of effects option?
<Amaranth> seb128: it could help a little
<seb128> Amaranth, a little only? what is all the time spent?
<Amaranth> seb128: it'd at least make people not enable cracktastic things without thinking
<seb128> compiz takes 10s if there is nothing to read too?
<Amaranth> seb128: well most of the time seems to have been spent in that shell script...
<Amaranth> otherwise it only loads information for plugins it has loaded
<seb128> ok, let's see how it goes with your version first
<Amaranth> so not shipping a plugin would save a stat call or whatever
<Amaranth> on the other hand the ccp plugin loads information for every single plugin
<seb128> it's weird that a piece of shell takes 15 seconds to run
<Amaranth> but it uses protobuf so it's pretty fast and there isn't as much IO
<Amaranth> compiz itself uses DOM + XPath to load XML for the plugins that are loaded
<Amaranth> robert_ancell seems to have added something to compiz to tell what part is taking the most time, he might have a better idea of where any potential bottleneck actually is
<Amaranth> at least it loads faster than gnome-shell ;)
<chrisccoulson> gconf is a bottleneck on my desktop
<chrisccoulson> 4 seconds
<Amaranth> yeah, that'd be ccp
<Amaranth> so not shipping as many plugins would help some there
<Amaranth> since ccp loads the info for all of them
<chrisccoulson> oh, i meant gconfd starting is the bottleneck on mine
<Amaranth> oh :)
<chrisccoulson> this is before compiz starts
<chrisccoulson> wow, i wish my company would spend some money on some decent laptops
<Riddell> pitti, dpm: we have https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-kubuntu-translations-feedback-and-improvements and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-kubuntu-translations  I propose to replace them with kubuntu-lucid-translations
<mvo> Amaranth: I did a profiling patch some tme ago for compiz, should be in bzr
<Amaranth> mvo: oh, that was you
<Riddell> asac: can we have a kubuntu firefox session to look at the KDE firefox integration bits?
<dpm> Riddell, that's fine by me, but I'd like to be able to add info to the spec, at least move the summary in the community blueprint to the desktop one
<pitti> Riddell: WFM; I didn't really put a lot of meat into it, so we can just invalidate it
<dpm> Riddell, also, the <track>-lucid- name I think should be kept for consistency with other sessions on the Desktop track
<Laney> seb128: I added SRU stuff and opened a Karmic task on bug 448162. We'll get it to Lucid by a sync.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448162 in f-spot "sidebars pictures are not clickable" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448162
<Riddell> dpm: I'm planning on using kubuntu-lucid for all our kubuntu ones, I have scheduling powers now I'm told so we're partly a track to ourselves
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<pitti> Riddell: done
<dpm> Riddell, ahaaa, then feel free to use the superpowers and move it to the Kubuntu track
<Laney> thank you for triaging and chasing
<Riddell> pitti: what have you done?
<pitti> Riddell: marking desktop-lucid-kubuntu-translations as superseded by community-lucid-kubuntu-translations-feedback-and-improvements ?
<Riddell> pitti: I wanted to make a kubuntu-lucid-translations the superseed them both
<pitti> Riddell: ah, there's a third one; sure, please go ahead
<Riddell> there will be
<pitti> you can also just rename the existing one, FYI
<pitti> Riddell: ^
<pitti> (if everything else in it is correct, that's easier)
<Riddell> so I can, that's clever
<dpm> pitti, ccheney` I was thinking about having a dedicated session on OO.o translations, but seeing that there is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice already, do you think it might be a better idea to discuss translations in there as well instead?
<mac_v> djsiegel: ping... sent the mail.. sorry, for sending it late ... i forgot about it :(
<djsiegel> oh, thanks mac_V!
<djsiegel> n
<djsiegel> np
<mac_v> :)
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i'm really confused about how screensaver inhibiting works at all in totem
<chrisccoulson> it calls Inhibit on the wrong dbus path
<chrisccoulson> :-/
<pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps that's the s3kr1t bus that works :)
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: if you look at gnome-screensaver, it actually registers an object at that path
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - sorry, i went away
<chrisccoulson> my gnome-screensaver only registers a path at "/"
<chrisccoulson> :(
<mclasen> the other one doesn't show up in d-feet
<chrisccoulson> ah
<mclasen> don't know why
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - totem always gives me this warning:
<chrisccoulson> WARNING **: Problem inhibiting the screensaver: Method "Inhibit" with signature "ss" on interface "org.gnome.ScreenSaver" doesn't exist
<chrisccoulson> but the inhibit is registered
<mclasen> oh, interesting
<chrisccoulson> and this is why totem isn't cleaning them up properly for me, because it *thinks* it failed to register it, and so doesn't save the cookie
<chrisccoulson> i'm a bit confused why i seem to be the only person with this problem though
<seb128> did you try with an another user or a guest session?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - one second, i will try that now
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's wierd - it works ok from the guest account
<chrisccoulson> well, i'm totally confused!
<seb128> Ampelbein, hum, if totem is crashing that's a totem problem ... not true
<seb128> ups
<seb128> Amaranth, ^
<Amaranth> seb128: it's certainly not a compiz problem :)
<seb128> Amaranth, and not a totem one either
<Amaranth> seb128: totem or one of the libraries it uses (nvidia fail again?)
<seb128> I just hate those bugs about video crashing when compiz is on
<seb128> nobody wants to take responsability for those
<Amaranth> heh
<seb128> I would like to know where to reassign it
<seb128> totem is wrong but xorg or compiz would bounce back
<Amaranth> If it's not a crash in compiz I have no idea
<seb128> so we are stucked with useless replies
<Amaranth> see if you get can a backtrace from him or something
<seb128> I did ask for one
<Amaranth> but then again you can't tell with nvidia and X, only with nvidia OpenGL
<Amaranth> (if the nvidia driver is the cause, I mean)
<seb128> but I guess it will be one of those xerror due to limited video ressources
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks for the update, some notes though
<robert_ancell> always with the notes :)
<seb128> 1, could you please do the merges on debian?
<robert_ancell> yeah, I knew you were going to get me on 1
<seb128> I know it's no fun
<seb128> but it's no fun for your coworkers either
<seb128> so let's share those and not just dump the task on others ;-)
<robert_ancell> :P
<seb128> 2- I'm not sure if we should run into 2.29
<robert_ancell> ?
<seb128> it's probably fine for the ones you did
<seb128> but we should check upstream roadmap
<seb128> we don't want to get stucked in the middle of refactoring
<seb128> especially that GNOME3 will likely be 2.32
<robert_ancell> oh, is that what you've heard?
<seb128> and some maintainer can decide to skip 2.30 or have it an unstable version toward GNOME 2.32
<seb128> well, since the gnome-shell guys mailed d-d-l saying gnome-shell will not be ready before 2.32
<Amaranth> seb128: plus if GSettings makes it we probably don't want to try to transition to that in lucid
<seb128> ie will only be a tech preview version this cycle
<seb128> Amaranth, no
<seb128> things I'm not sure we should change count glib and gtk
<seb128> I know it's not going to be popular
<seb128> but I'm not sure it's the right cycle to get gvariant, dconf, etc early changes
<Amaranth> so I would stay away from everything GNOME that uses gconf until the decision for gsettings/dconf is made
<robert_ancell> Amaranth, i.e.  every package?
<Amaranth> robert_ancell: yeah, pretty much
<seb128> Amaranth, dconf you mean there no?
<Amaranth> seb128: eh? I said dconf
<seb128> I didn't get why staying away from apps using gconf
<seb128> in case they migrate mid cycle you mean?
<Amaranth> right
<Amaranth> If you upload 2.29.1 now then 2.29.2 switches to gsettings...
<seb128> that's a good point
<seb128> I doubt dconf will be ready this cycle though
<seb128> they are still discussing migration strategies
<seb128> they will probably land the glib, etc changes required
<seb128> and have dconf working and ready to be used
<seb128> but I doubt many applications will switch
<seb128> some might experiment
<seb128> but there is a need to solve to migration issue before
<seb128> desrt will be at uds
<seb128> robert_ancell, I would suggest we are careful on 2.29 until uds
<Amaranth> From the way the conversation seemed to be going the migration plan was "migrate wallpaper and such and toss the rest"
<seb128> that is the opinion from some people
<seb128> I don't see that work for distros
<robert_ancell> seb128, right.  Is it worth queueing them up anyway?
<seb128> robert_ancell, it's fine doing selected ones I think
<seb128> like evince, eog you did, it's easy to roll an application back
<robert_ancell> seb128, in the archive?>
<seb128> yes
<seb128> upload 2.28 as 2.29.is.2.28
<Amaranth> 2.29.1+really2.28.2-0ubuntu1 :(
<robert_ancell> seb128, then lets be optimistic and say "no applications are going to cause a problem" then roll back any that are
<seb128> it's not nice looking but works
<seb128> robert_ancell, right
<seb128> things I would be careful about nautilus, gnome-panel
<seb128> things I would be careful about nautilus, gnome-panel
<seb128> urg
<seb128> + I'm not sure about glib, gtk
<Amaranth> gnome-panel, really?
<seb128> I want to discuss that at uds
<seb128> Amaranth, we got stucked in the gvfs transition in hardy due to those
<Amaranth> sure but I don't think anyone is doing _anything_ with gnome-panel anymore
<Amaranth> since it's going away and all
<seb128> it's the sort of code which interact with other components
<seb128> well; not in 2.30
<seb128> but right
<seb128> I'm not sure about the evo stack too
<seb128> they are switching to dbus and gtk rather than bonoboui
<Amaranth> the kill-bonobo branch landed, didn't it?
<Amaranth> right
<seb128> it's good but it's a lot of refactoring
<seb128> and I'm not sure if it will reach stability for lucid
<seb128> since we have to keep bonobo anyway
<Amaranth> let's shove compiz 0.9 in there ;)
<seb128> gnome-panel; gconf, etc ...
<seb128> robert_ancell, well small example or refactoring is gcalctool
<seb128> you said you would take the opportunity of GNOME3 for that no?
<robert_ancell> seb128, it's got a new UI but the changes are incremental
<seb128> ok
<seb128> robert_ancell, anyway I will let you judge what you consider risky or not
<seb128> I might disagree on something and not sponsor it
<robert_ancell> mwuhahaha
<seb128> but if you feel something should be fine for the lts do the update
<robert_ancell> ok
<seb128> let's wait for glib, gtk though
<seb128> I'm not sure when gtk 2.20 is scheduled
<seb128> we need to check that before shipping 2.19
<TheMuso> Greetings all.
 * TheMuso will help with GNOME merge stuff once he has the audio stack updated.
<seb128> hey TheMuso, thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw I will fix eog build now
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, haven't read email yet. problem?
<seb128> robert_ancell, gnome bug #600706
<ubottu> Gnome bug 600706 in general "don't use LOCALMODLIBS in the configure" [Normal,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600706
<seb128> robert_ancell, the same issue
<seb128> robert_ancell, recent python version break that, it's not meant to be used this way
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i figured out my inhibit issue :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh?
<chrisccoulson> the hamster-applet is snooping on the org.gnome.ScreenSaver messages, but not handling them correctly
<chrisccoulson> which makes dbus return an error, even though gnome-screensaver inhibits correctly
<chrisccoulson> if i get rid of the hamster-applet, it all works correctly!
<chrisccoulson> that was a wierd one to figure out
<chrisccoulson> but because dbus returns an error, rather than the inhibit cookie, totem cannot remove the inhibit when it closes ;)
<seb128> good catch, how did you figure that?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just started randomly killing things in my session
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> i took the "scientific" approach ;)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> I would probably have started to look into user config
<seb128> and start stracing things
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i was starting to get to that stage, but then i noticed when i was using dbus-send, that the call was returning before gnome-screensaver had handled it (and i knew this, because i had gnome-screensaver interrupted in GDB when i ran dbus-send)
<seb128> in any case good catch
<chrisccoulson> i need to try and figure out what hamster-applet is doing wrong now
<seb128> good night everybody
<chrisccoulson> 'night seb128
<seb128> night chrisccoulson!
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-06
<serialorder> hi, id like to join you guys in maintaining the desktop packages and am looking at this (quite long) list here: http://piware.de/workitems/desktop/lucid/versions.html
<serialorder> i am wondering what the policy is for the ones that are not the latest version in debian
<serialorder> one could imagine that for those we just wait for debian to update and then import once they have done so
<chrisccoulson> serialorder - we don't have to wait for debian to update. we can update to the latest upstream version before debian does, or we can re-sync on the current debian version and update to the latest upstream version all in one go
<chrisccoulson> but we're being quite conservative with which packages to update at the moment
<serialorder> oh
<chrisccoulson> because we don't want to risk introducing features which are not likely to be finished properly when lucid is delivered
<serialorder> might you suggest a package that would be acceptable for me to work on?
<chrisccoulson> seialorder - i haven't had a chance to look at the list yet, and i'm just about to go to bed. it's probably ok to do merges with debian for most packages, especially if the upstream versions are the same. but i'm not so sure about doing gnome 2.29.1 updates just yet
<chrisccoulson> ^^^serialorder (i spelt your name wrong there)
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - about the seahorse-agent crash - the X connection dying is actually a red-herring
<chrisccoulson> the crash happens when exit() is called from any code path
 * mclasen thinks that atexit handler may be his fault, actually
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - it is
<mclasen> because I complained  about the agent leaving tmpdirs behind
<mclasen> did you reopen the upstream bug ? might be a good idea...
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i haven't seen the upstream bug yet
<chrisccoulson> i left a comment here last night after i had a look at it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse-plugins/+bug/429322/comments/37
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed]
<chrisccoulson> it describes what I *think* is happening, but i haven't had time to look at it any more tonight
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - oops, i misread your earlier message "thinks that atexit handler may be his fault, actually"
<chrisccoulson> i read it as "thinks that atexit handler may be at fault, actually" when i replied "it is" ;)
<mclasen> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=579738 is the bug you probably want to reopen
<ubottu> Gnome bug 579738 in Agent "seahorse-agent leaves behind its socket dir" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<chrisccoulson> i wish launchpad would not spam everybody each time a duplicate bug is reported
<chrisccoulson> thats not good for a bug wit over 100 duplicates
<Ng> chrisccoulson: it's the equivalent of bugzilla mailing you when someone CCs themselves to a bug ;)
<Ng> (ignoring that you can stop it doing that)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it's really annoying
<chrisccoulson> especially when people start sending "unsubscribe" messages and adding to the spam
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Sorry, screwed up with dch -r for brasero, meant to have your name on the changelog sign-off line.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hello pitti :)
<didrocks> seems that we will have to update all our branches (and that seb128 will have to upgrade his netwoork connection too)
<baptistemm> good morning gentlemen
<Amaranth> not so sure I want to switch compiz to having all the source in bzr
<Amaranth> would make it easier to update quilt patches but the only point I can see for having everything in bzr is 3.0 (bzr) source package format
<seb128> hello there
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<huats> morning
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> huats: bonjour
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson huats pitti
<pitti> huats: would you mind testing udev in karmic-proposed and give feedback on the bug report? so that it can move to -updates soon?
<huats> pitti, Guten Tag
<huats> pitti, sure will do it right now
<huats> hello seb128 and chrisccoulson
<pitti> huats: merci
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti and huats too
<chrisccoulson> how is everyone this morning?
<pitti> very lucid :)
<chrisccoulson> heh ;)
<chrisccoulson> i still haven't done any lucid stuff yet!
<seb128> lol
<huats> SO BUSY !
<seb128> I'm good, 3 days weekend again this week
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i bet you're looking forward to that ;)
<chrisccoulson> my weekend will be shorter than usual, as i have to work a full day today
<seb128> sort of yes
<chrisccoulson> (well, i need to work at least until all of my colleagues have gone home)
<seb128> travelling on monday though so that will be a bit less relax
<chrisccoulson> it's quite a long journey too isn' it/
<seb128> having to wake up quite early, to pack before
<seb128> and I didn't prepare my specs, etc yet
<seb128> yes, some 15 hours travelling
<seb128> pitti, 2028 i386 bugs to retrace
<pitti> seb128: hm, it seems it's going _up_?
<seb128> 689 amd ones
<seb128> pitti, no
<pitti> âª MADNESS takes its toll! â«
<seb128> pitti, 2181 892
<seb128> those were yesterday's numbers
<seb128> catching up slowly
<seb128> pitti, could you stop restarting to hardy ones?
<seb128> the load is 6 on the box
<seb128> it would be faster to let only the karmic ones catch up now
<pitti> seb128: hardy-amd64 is the one that processes all the python dupes, thuogh
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> ignore me then
<pitti> and the python ones should not cause much load; it's primarily LP communication
<pitti> seb128: 6? hah, I've seen the box at 50 :)
<pitti> (no fun to work on it then, though)
<pitti> seb128: you know, I think I'll just change the cronjob to remove the lock
<seb128> the brutal way
<pitti> seb128: then we can let it catch up, and then investigate real breakage
<seb128> but yes please do for the weekend at least
<seb128> got some weird firefox issues
<seb128> I untagged those
<seb128> weird = binary not available
<seb128> not sure if some directory changed or something
<seb128> I didn't look into details
<seb128> like it was installing firefox but still complain that the required binary was not there
<pitti> seb128: oh, heck, no; cron job must not remove the lock files, otherwise they'd overlap and run in parallel
<pitti> seb128: yeah, usually a previous microversion
<seb128> good point
<pitti> seb128: but I thought I already fixed that in karmic's apport
<seb128> I though too
<seb128> I will ping you next time it happens
<seb128> bbl
<ccheney`> i got a weird notify your distributor message in my notify area in karmic
<Laney> pitti: (or someone else), could you pocket copy f-spot from karmic-proposed to lucid?
<Laney> I'll sort the sync out as and when
<pitti> Laney: yes, I'll do that anyway
<Laney> oh cool
<Laney> thought I might have put you off by saying that I planned to sync it
<mpt> ccheney`, did it look like this? http://grossmeier.net/files/stupid-error.png
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, there's a bug pattern for bug 429322, but it seems that users are still submitting them with apport
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<chrisccoulson> oh, ok, there is no bug pattern for it
<chrisccoulson> it seems that there is a commit which says one was added, but the xml file is not included :-/
<ccheney`> mpt: looking
<ccheney`> mpt: yes that is it
<rickspencer3>      good morning
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<mac_v> mpt: ccheney`: Bug #423694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423694 in gnome-power-manager "session active, not inhibited, screen idle message" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423694
<mac_v> for some the blanking it fixed  , but some get the message even with no blanking
<chrisccoulson> mac_v - are you saying that some people are experiencing other issues in addition to seeing this icon?
<chrisccoulson> i see the icon when i shouldn't see it, but there are no other issues
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: in bug #397839 , users are still reporting blanking
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397839 in gnome-power-manager "Screen randomly goes off in karmic" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397839
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, ok. i can't recreate that issue
<chrisccoulson> under what conditions are they seeing blanking? does it blank when they are doing stuff, or just when they are watching a video (but not doing anything else)
<chrisccoulson> that information is fairly important (i have to admit, i've not looked the whole way through the bug report yet)
<chrisccoulson> anyway, home time for me
<mac_v> chrisccoulson: thats why i was saying the idle counter still has some mismatch, somewhere... initially , even after the xorg patch, i too was having blanking [during typing and such] but blanking was fixed for me . and still the icon was displayed. so i thought it might have been a problem where the icon is unnecessarily displayed.  But the blanking had not gone fully , but rather became rarer...
<mac_v> now , i have no blanking and now the icon is not displayed
<chrisccoulson> that's strange. anyway, i've got to disappear now
<chrisccoulson> weekend, here i come!
<chrisccoulson> it might be my last weekend of freedom!
 * mac_v vanishes too ;)
<dpm> pitti, ccheney` I was thinking about having a dedicated session on OO.o translations, but seeing that there is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice already, do you think it might be a better idea to discuss translations in there as well instead?
<pitti> dpm: I defer to ccheney` for this; I'm fine either way; just let me know if you need a new session scheduled
<dpm> thanks pitti
<dpm> ccheney`, what do you think^?
<ccheney`> dpm: yea we could do it in that session i think, its just an informational session so won't take too long
<dpm> thanks ccheney`, may I ask you or pitti to add a short note on translations on the summary as well? Or if you've got a wiki page for the spec, I can do that myself
<pitti> it's just a blueprint so far
 * ccheney` in a meeting atm
<dpm> no worries
<pitti> I'll change it accordingly
<Laney> I wonder why my laptop screen randomly dims
<Laney> (and doesn't come back)
<huats> pitti, I have commented the bug saying it works great with the one in proposed
<huats> thanks again...
<pitti> thanks
<huats> sorry for the delay
<pitti> np, it still needs to bake a bit anyway
<and471> kenvandine: what is the correct/desired behaviour for xsplash on a dual monitor setup?
<chrisccoulson> Laney - is your display dimming issue repeatable?
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - do you have any opinion on bug 428884? (ie, do you think this functionality should be added back to gnome-screensaver)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428884 in gnome-screensaver "gnome-screensaver --poke functionality does no longer inhibit screen blanking" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/428884
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: there's a FIXME in the code that describes what needs to be done to make it work again
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - yeah, i was just wondering how to do it though. it seems that gnome-session and totem both contain some code which resets IDLETIME by simulating fake key presses, using xtest
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: but as a general comment, idle handling is now in gnome-session, and inhibitors are the supported api to, well, inhibit things
<Laney> chrisccoulson: not at will. I'll get back to you shortly when I get home
<Laney> brb
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - yeah, agreed
<chrisccoulson> but some applications still rely on the old interfaces for now
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - i'm just wondering if gnome-screensaver should copy the send_fake_event function from gnome-session, or if there is a better way to do it?
<pitti> good bye everyone, have a nice weekend!
<chrisccoulson> (although, judging from the comment in gnome-session, i don't think there is a better way)
<chrisccoulson> have a good weekend too pitti!
<chrisccoulson> are you travelling next week too?
<kenvandine> and471, i am not sure actually, never seen it
<kenvandine> bratsche, ^^
<and471> bratsche: what is the correct/desired behaviour for xsplash on a dual monitor setup?
<bratsche> and471: At the moment I think it just puts itself on monitor #0, regardless of which monitor is the primary one.
<and471> bratsche: yup, what SHOULD be the behaviour though/what will you work up towards having it do?
<bratsche> and471: That was never defined in the requirements, but presumably it should be put on the primary monitor.
<and471> bratsche: okay, what happens on the other monitor whilst this is happening?
<bratsche> Right now it's drawn by gnome-settings-daemon, and it will continue to be until someone specifies otherwise.
<and471> bratsche: its just that at the moment, it shows the desktop before xsplash has finished and so it doesn't look very slick
<and471> and471: will it be a black screen in the future? or what are the plans?
<and471> bratsche: ^^ sorry talking to myself
<bratsche> There's supposed to be a session on this at UDS, and I suppose people will have some thoughts there.  Right now there are no plans, I'm working on other stuff.
<and471> bratsche: okay thankyou for you time :-)
<and471> *your
<bratsche> If you have something specific in mind, let me know.  But otherwise I'm not really thinking at all about xsplash these days.
<and471> bratsche: not really, was just wondering what would happen, but at the moment a simple option is just a black screen that fades into the desktop the same time as the main splash
<and471> bratsche: but I get you aren't working on xsplash now :-)
<Laney> chrisccoulson: Hi there. Got any debugging hints? note: I am using some kernel module (nvidia-bl) that I got from a PPA to make it work so it could well be that
<Laney> alright so I think it's when it restores from dimming it doesn't go back to the previous level
<Laney> and it seems to dim too rapidly
<Laney> oh
<Laney> it's the "reduce display brightness" option I think
<RevVader> anyone in here an lvm/luks/cryptsetup type person?
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the ack
<didrocks> pitti: and for the link on how enabling proposed :) (ok, that's a user generic mail ;))
 * Amaranth looks at his inbox and weeps
<Amaranth> Did apport get turned off yet?
<bryce> Amaranth, do the bugs mention Checkbox?
<Amaranth> bryce: no, the "compiz crashes inside the nvidia libGL on close" one
<Amaranth> I keep getting dupes but I don't know if those were just sitting around since apport apparently died recently
<bryce> mm could be
<bryce> fwiw I'm not seeing tons of apport bugs at the moment
<bryce> I count 7 reported within the past week
<dtchen> Amaranth: you can have my grub bugs if you'd like to trade.
<Amaranth> probably old bugs that never got retraced
<bryce> which could all be leftovers from pre-release installs I suppose
<Amaranth> dtchen: No thanks, compiz is painful enough
<bryce> I was getting inundated by checkbox bugs though.  glad to get that turned off
<Amaranth> dtchen: That reminds me though, did you see that adding module-x11-bell or whatever to pulseaudio wasn't working to get the beep while using compiz anymore?
<Amaranth> I mentioned that after adding a pulseaudio task so I dunno if you ever saw it
<bryce> mostly "resolution isn't right" bugs.  I ought to investigate when I get a chance, in case it's something more than just monitors with bad edid or whatever
<dtchen> Amaranth: it works here, though I tested using xmonad and metacity
<Amaranth> dtchen: metacity doesn't even need it, metacity uses libcanberra directly to do the beep
<Amaranth> while compiz and (I'm guessing) xmonad tell X to do it
<dtchen> right, but I tested xmonad (my normal env)
<dtchen> I suppose I'll just iterate through the other DEs I have
<Amaranth> It might just be my computer, dunno
<Amaranth> Maybe I've got the channels wrong or something
<Amaranth> I know if I use 2ch I don't get the LFE or whatever but I've also got 4ch, 5ch, and 6ch to choose from
<dtchen> all of which probably are getting bitten by the MMX bug
<dtchen> [but are not related to this bell issue, I suspect]
<Amaranth> mmx bug?
<dtchen> the optimized asm for volume and channel mapping
<Amaranth> ah
 * Amaranth curses at launchpad
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-07
<tgpraveen1> in karmic in guest session, there is no way to use networkmanager? sudo does not work with it. and I can't run it as it
<tgpraveen1> says only root can run it :-(
<mac_v> dobey: ping ;)
<mac_v> dobey: in case, you hadnt noticed i'v filed Bug 463802 , [just a tiny reminder] ;p  or do you want me to assign it to you?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 463802 in icon-naming-spec "Descriptions for delete and remove icons are ambiguous" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/463802
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: the nm is a known bug
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: its been there for a very long time
<crevette> hello
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-11-08
<and471> mac_v: in Humanity/categories/48/package_development.svg, there are some redundant/cruft elements in the background that cause the shovel to be black in the software center (departments page), could you remove them?
<mac_v> and471: yeah , i mentioned that , and mvo said it was a webkit bug
<mac_v> and471: ah... i think i fixed it... could you file a bug?
<mac_v> and471: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/Screenshot-Ubuntu%20Software%20Center.png
<and471> mac_v: in what, humanity or ...
<mac_v> and471: humanity,
<and471> ok
<and471> mac_v, https://bugs.launchpad.net/humanity/+bug/478222
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 478222 in humanity "Programming Icon is black" [Undecided,New]
<mac_v> and471: cool thanks, uploading fix... :)  must the quickest bug fix ;p
<and471> mac_v, hehe
<and471> mac_v, will it get synced into the repos? or do we have to file an SRU
<mac_v> and471: not sure.. we need to ask pitti
<and471> mac_v, ok
<and471> mac_v, should be easy, as there is no regression potential (really)
<mac_v> yeah
<and471> well I am making some progress on the history part of software store
<and471> mac_v, I have the f-spot style slider in (but not connected up) yet, but it is reading the history file/adding events on removal/installation
<and471> mac_v, it is pretty cool :-)
<mac_v> ;)
<and471> mac_v, I also think we can integrate any apt-get commands into the history
<and471> run cat /var/log/dpkg.log | grep 'install '
<and471> and you can see what I mean
<mac_v> and471: i miss those  , it would be nice if it is in history
<and471> mac_v, though we willl have to check for duplicates
<and471> mac_v, yup
<and471> mac_v, though we won't have as much info on them
<and471> mac_v, but it will work :-)
<and471> anyway have to go now :-)
<and471> mac_v, see ya
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for working on Sunday and simplecommeubuntu in -updates :)
<chrisccoulson> hello didrocks
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-08
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: oh whoops, thanks. :)
<gunnarhj> help
<chiz> Is here somebody alive?
<nisshh> chiz, whats up?
<chiz> nisshh, how to install lxde?
<chiz> I want to type smth in terminal to download and install lxde
<nisshh> chiz, hmmm, do you want the full lubuntu? or just lxde?
<chiz> But I don't know what command
<chiz> I have now normal Ubuntu
<chiz> I want lxde instead of ...
<nisshh> yeah
<chiz> I don't know what :-)
<nisshh> ah, instead of GNOME
<chiz> Smth preinstalled
<chiz> Maybe :-)
<nisshh> chiz, try this in the terminal: sudo apt-get install lxde
<nisshh> then logout and when you log back in change the session from Ubuntu Desktop Edition to LXDE
<chiz> Couldn't find package lxde
<nisshh> chiz, which version of Ubuntu are you using?
<chiz> :-)
<chiz> 8
<nisshh> 8.04?
<chiz> oh
<chiz> no
<chiz> 6.10
<chiz> :-)
<chiz> My PC is to slow for 10
<nisshh> your running 6.10!?
<nisshh> wow
<nisshh> chiz, lxde is only available in 10.04 and later
<chiz> There is no lxde for 6 version? :-(
<nisshh> no
<chiz> What a pitty :-(
<chiz> ok
<nisshh> lxde hasnt been around for ages
<chiz> Maybe smth else?
<nisshh> chiz, try xfce
<chiz> Some lightweight GUI
<chiz> instead of lxde?
<nisshh> chiz, what hardware are you on?
<chiz> In command, I mean
<chiz> :-)
<chiz> Celeron 1,7
<chiz> 512 RAM
<nisshh> i see
<nisshh> then xfce should work fine
<nisshh> try: sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
<nisshh> then logout and select it as your session
<chiz> Couldn't find package xfce
<chiz> oh
<chiz> just a sec
<nisshh> chiz, you really should upgrade the the newest version of Ubuntu
<chiz> Couldn't find package xubuntu-desktop
<nisshh> chiz, 6.10 isnt supported anymore
<chiz> Bad...
<nisshh> chiz, yeah, im not completely sure but i dont think xubuntu was around then either
<nisshh> that was 2006
<chiz> I understand :-)
<nisshh> chiz, 6.10 no longer gets security updates or anything
<chiz> What about 8th version?
<chiz> Is there some lightweight GUI?
<nisshh> 8.04 does, but not for too much longer
<nisshh> chiz, if you install Xubuntu 10.10 you will have a lightweight GUI
<chiz> I don't worry about security
<nisshh> chiz, i see, you should
<chiz> This machin is just for reading books and programming j2me apps
<chiz> It didn't help
<chiz> I tried
<chiz> I installed 10 version and lxde on it. It wasn't comfortable.
<nisshh> chiz, not lxde, xfce
<nisshh> xfce is completely different
<chiz> xfce better then lxde?
<chiz> oh
<chiz> ok
<nisshh> chiz, im not at liberty to say which is better, its your choice, but LXDE is newer than XFCE and its also lighter
<chiz> lxde lighter?
<chiz> nisshh, thanks!
<nisshh> chiz, in my experience it is slightly
<chiz> I have to go to work :-)
<nisshh> but they are both very lightweight
<nisshh> ok
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_, how was your week-end?
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<rodrigo_> didrocks, very short :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: oh why?
<nisshh> because its only 2 days?
<didrocks> :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, only 2 days :)
<nisshh> hehe
<didrocks> it was enough for me to finish metal gear solid 4!
<nisshh> didrocks, oh, didnt know you were a gamer?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, on the ps3?
<didrocks> nisshh: not as I've been, I restrict myself now to final fantasy/zela/metal gear/mario
<didrocks> which are games that take time :)
<nisshh> oh, bit of old school :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, on ps3 :)
<didrocks> nisshh: well, I'm not that "old", but yeah, traditional games :)
<nisshh> didrocks, i myself play lots of FPS games on PC :)
<rodrigo_> I don't like FPS, I get stressed with them :)
<nisshh> didrocks, lol, i know that :)
<didrocks> nisshh: at least, on GNU/Linux, you have the choice
<didrocks> as rodrigo_, I don't really like FPS, I prefer games with a story
<nisshh> didrocks, thats exactly right, i dont play any through wine either, i play all native games
<rodrigo_> yeah, with some action, but a more relaxed :)
<nisshh> i like RPG's as well
<didrocks> for instance, I can't imagine anyone playing mgs4 without having played to 1, 2 and 3â¦ should be soooo confusing!
<nisshh> hehe
<rodrigo_> metal gear solid isn't a shooter?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: no really, it's a tactical infiltration game
<rodrigo_> ah
<didrocks> rodrigo_: the main goal is to be not detected
<rodrigo_> I might try it then
<didrocks> make people sleep, and such :)
<didrocks> sneak inside the building
<rodrigo_> I didn't even try it because I thought it was a shooter
<didrocks> well, I really like that :)
<didrocks> even if mgs4 is the most violent of the serie
<didrocks> so, you still have some part where you have to shoot a lot, but it's not like a FPS
<nisshh> didrocks, i have gone off stealth shooters, too boring
<rodrigo_> ok, I'll get the demo from PSN to try it
<didrocks> rodrigo_: the thing is that can either play it as a shooter if you don't sneak well enough :)
<nisshh> didrocks, FPS games do have stories, what about halo?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: but most of the time, you'll loose then :)
<didrocks> nisshh: yeah, I've played a little bit of halo some years ago, but too stressful for me :)
<rodrigo_> nisshh, the story being 'kill everyone'? :D
<nisshh> didrocks, also, MGS on the PSP punishes you if you dont use stealth
<nisshh> rodrigo_, have you even played halo?
<didrocks> nisshh: yeah, that's the point of the game :)
<rodrigo_> nisshh, no, not really
<nisshh> rodrigo_, it has a large story behind it
<rodrigo_> as I said, if it looks like a shooter when reading the reviews, I don't even try them
<nisshh> didrocks, yeah, the PSP versions suck
<nisshh> rodrigo_, oh, it is a shooter, but didrocks was saying shooters dont have stories, when they do
<rodrigo_> ah
<didrocks> well, not enough story for me, let's say :)
<rodrigo_> hehe
<nisshh> didrocks, ah, ok :)
<didrocks> even when a lot of people hates final fantasy because you can have some part with the story during 30 minutes, I really like that :)
<nisshh> didrocks, well, i dont mind FF, but after 14 releases, the story is so screwed
<nisshh> i dont even understand it anymore
<rodrigo_> :)
<nisshh> and thats if i ever did :)
<didrocks> nisshh: the story is so screwed? It's another story every time!
<didrocks> new people, new world, new epochâ¦
<nisshh> thats exactly my point....
<nisshh> it isnt FF if it doesnt carry on from the next one
<didrocks> no, but an episod for a story is enough
<nisshh> hehe
<didrocks> I played FF7 for instance 11 times :)
<nisshh> yeah
<nisshh> ive played FF7 on the PSP 3-4 times
<nisshh> its addictive
<rodrigo_> didrocks, you should try uncharted and uncharted2, I think you'll like them
<didrocks> more than 100 hours to finish everything in a time :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, I was powndering buying it. It was too late to try the demo
<nisshh> rodrigo_, oh man, i have, they are good games :)
<rodrigo_> you can buy them quite cheap 2nd hand now, in GAME shops (I guess there are some in France?)
<rodrigo_> nisshh, yeah, the best ones I've tried recently
<rodrigo_> apart from assasin's creed
<nisshh> hehe
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, it was another named before, but it has been renamed GAME as well :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I'll probably have a try! :)
<nisshh> geez
<nisshh> i always do that
 * pitti waves hello for a quick drive-by (swap day today)
<didrocks> hey pitti! did you have a nice travel!
<didrocks> ?
<pitti> well, travelling eastwards during the night is never "nice" :)
<pitti> I slept for about an hour, but I had a nap at home
<pitti> so I felt quite well after that
<pitti> the concert yesterday evening was awesome
<pitti> didrocks: how about you?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine thanks, nice week-end and knowing that at the end of this week, Julie will be back here (she was on her parents for almost 2 monthes to not be too many to my parents waiting for our flat :))
<pitti> oh, nice
<seb128> hey didrocks pitti
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> ouais, et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, back in europe? did you have a nice trip back?
<seb128> how is your jetlag?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> seb128: see above, flights were on time and uneventful
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, seb128
<pitti> seb128: Had trouble getting to sleep last night, but I fell reasonably well now -- I'm on swap day today, so I could sleep in until 9 am :)
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va bien, dÃ©tente et jeux vidÃ©o :)
<seb128> pitti, above was just before I joined I gues
<seb128> s
<seb128> pitti, ok, great
<pitti> ah, ok; I filter out join/part messages
<seb128> pitti, enjoy your swap day
<pitti> just wanted to do some quick spec review, then some laundry and supermarket
<pitti> RAOF: I set https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-desktop-n-xorg-configuration-the-final-ten-percent back to drafting; this just needs some clarification (see my questions in the whiteboard)
<pitti> seb128: just to confirm, you are still working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection drafting?
<seb128> pitti, hum, no
<pitti> seb128: i. e. ready for review?
<seb128> pitti, dunno, somebody else wrote the summary and workitems, I didn't realise I was drafting it ;-)
<seb128> I think jcastro did
<seb128> pitti, let me review it and send it your way if it's ok
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: FYI, you have some specs in your review queue
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> pitti, the appselection seems fine
<pitti> seb128: good, will review
<seb128> pitti, you can review it
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> how do I see what is in my review queue?
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/people/+me/+specs?role=approver
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'll review them today. Thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: ^
<seb128> pitti, will review those today
<hyperair> nautilus-share needs someone to upload into -proposed, by the way. =p
<hyperair> it's the crasher bug when adding shares.
<pitti> bryceh: can you please review/approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-desktop-n-xorg-general-planning ?
<pitti> seb128: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop already looks quite nice; should be possible to get most to approved by meeting tomorrow \o/
<pitti> didrocks: "change the seed to have it default in alpha1: TODO" on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-application-selection
<pitti> didrocks: is "it" == "Banshee"?
<pitti> ah, guess so
<didrocks> pitti: I think as jcastro wrote that WI. I don't see on what else he could have commented :)
<seb128> pitti, you rock, great work!
<seb128> didrocks, ^ can you sponsor the nautilus-share bugfix?
<pitti> s/you/desktop team/!
<didrocks> seb128: can do today, not now
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry I think sru are still frozen so...
<didrocks> seb128: still frozen? ok, good to know. Thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: the WIs don't cover a tsclient/vinagre decision and dropping gnome-dictionary (was that reconsidered?)
<seb128> pitti, right, I just noticed, I'm updating those, 2 minutes
<seb128> pitti, done
<seb128> didrocks, I've assigned you the "drop gnome-dictionnary" if you are doing the banshee dropping as well I figured you could do both at the same time ;-)
<seb128> ups banshee change, not dropping
<didrocks> seb128: sure :)
<pitti> seb128: cheers, approved
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> ok, /me &
<seb128> pitti, when you have comments on a spec, do you change the status back to something?
<seb128> or do you just let it in the current state?
<pitti> seb128: yes, usually "drafting"
<seb128> like https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packagesselection-desktop-n-telepathy-indicator
<pitti> if it's something that needs to be changed
<seb128> I want a work item about "uploading"
<seb128> like a target for when that will land
<pitti> so that it falls out of my queue and back into the drafter's
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thank
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> hyperair: do you have a bug report # handy?
<didrocks> (for nautilus-share)
<hyperair> didrocks: right give me a moment.
<hyperair> 655721
<hyperair> bug #655721
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 655721 in nautilus-share (Ubuntu) "Nautilus crashes when adding a share (affects: 8) (dups: 2) (heat: 56)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655721
<hyperair> there we go.
<didrocks> hyperair: can you please edit the bug report with a testcase and the changelog entry, please?
<didrocks> hyperair: I'll sponsor meanwhile
<didrocks> hyperair: so 0.7.2-14 contains the fix, right?
<hyperair> didrocks: yes.
<hyperair> didrocks: but -14 is in natty, so you'll have to add a ~something
<seb128> use 13.1 rather for the sru
<didrocks> ok, will upload with -v then :)
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> 0.7.2-13.1 sounds better for maverick
<hyperair> =\
<seb128> yes
<hyperair> okay then
<seb128> we will need a new upload to natty with mterry's libgnome cleaning
<hyperair> i usually like the version numbers to reflect where they came from though
<hyperair> seb128: it's already on mentors.debian.net, i'm waiting for mbiebl
<seb128> since apparently that didn't got included in the debian upload for some reason
<seb128> ok
<hyperair> seb128: because debian is frozen and this was a high-prio bugfix meant for going into squeeze.
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> hyperair: sponsored to -proposed. I've edited to add the changelog as well. Please, subscribe the SRU team once added the test case
<hyperair> didrocks: do they need to be subscribed these days? i thought they just follow the bug number in the .changes
<didrocks> hyperair: always better to subscribe them, they tend to not touch those where they aren't subscribe from what I understood as it can means "not ready finally, will do another upload"
<hyperair> didrocks: oh, okay.
<hyperair> didrocks: alright, done =)
<didrocks> hyperair: great, looks good. thanks! :)
<hyperair> =)
<seb128> Nafallo, hey
<seb128> Nafallo, was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gajim/+bug/349661 ever sent to debian or upstream or not?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 349661 in gajim (Ubuntu Jaunty) (and 1 other project) "config rewrites not posix safe (affects: 1) (heat: 5)" [Medium,Fix released]
<Nafallo> seb128: can't remember, sorry.
<seb128> Nafallo, ok
<seb128> seems the ubuntu diffs are small we could perhaps get back in sync in debian
<Nafallo> that sounds lovely. I haven't looked at the package myself since I started using empathy either :-/
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: hmm, in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3 , what about porting stuff to gdbus so that we can also get rid of dbus-glib?
<rodrigo_> most upstream apps are migrating afaics though
<rodrigo_> which raises the question, of what does python-dbus use?
<rodrigo_> python-dbus uses dbus-glib
<seb128> rodrigo_, hello
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, I think the cost is non trivial and the win very small
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> it's not like dbus-glib was hard to keep or maintain
<seb128> I would prefer get ride of a gtk stack of from gconf and bonobo
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> specially if python-.dbus depends on it, so yeah, not trivial
<seb128> would be interesting to know the telepathy plans for it
<seb128> it's one of the main users
<cassidy> we have to port tp-glib first, which is not a trivial task as you can imagine
<seb128> right
<cassidy> it *may* happen during this cycle but that's not sure
<seb128> that's why I was wondering if that would happen in one cycle
<seb128> in any case dbus-glib is not on my deprecation list for this cycle
<cassidy> bug is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28782
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 28782 in tp-glib "Migrate from dbus-glib to glib's GDBus" [Enhancement,New]
<mdeslaur> seb128: would you have any objection to me uploading the fix for bug 611983 to -proposed?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 611983 in evolution (Ubuntu Natty) (and 4 other projects) "Evolution [Open Link In Browser] not working for new eBay email hyperlinks (affects: 8) (dups: 2) (heat: 58)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/611983
<didrocks> mdeslaur: there is already an evolution pending for approval in -proposed, maybe wait for this one to get through?
<mdeslaur> didrocks: yes, I intended to
<seb128> mdeslaur, no objection
<seb128> thank you for working on that and the gnome-keyring issue
<mdeslaur> seb128: cool, thanks
<mdeslaur> seb128: no problem!
<mdeslaur> my mom has been complaining about her ebay links :P
<mdeslaur> so you can thank her :)
<seb128> it's an issue that we let such bugs go through still
<boulabiar> what are the projects where libbamf is used ?
<hyperair> does anyone know what version of ubuntu linux mint 9 is based on?
<hyperair> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/571707 <-- people using linux mint 9 are claiming that this bug isn't fixed.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 571707 in plymouth (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 4 other projects) "fsck progress stalls at boot, plymouthd/mountall eats CPU (affects: 143) (dups: 16) (heat: 688)" [Undecided,Triaged]
<hyperair> hmm it's based on lucid.
<hyperair> so why would that bug rear its head on mint and not lucid.
<bilalakhtar> seb128: Have you begun accepting Gnome 2.91 package upgrades?
<seb128> bilalakhtar, no, not before some weeks
<seb128> we just had gtk3 accepted
<seb128> we still need to build other libraries with it
<seb128> then get gtk3 on the CD
<bilalakhtar> seb128: hmm, okay, I just saw gtk+3.0 in the repos so was curious
<seb128> well you need libraries your software use to be ported as well
<rodrigo_> seb128, gtk3 is in natty now then?
<seb128> the launchpad integration one for example
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<bilalakhtar> hmm
<rodrigo_> cool, what about the other libs?
<bilalakhtar> Any way I am not doing anything until November 20
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: as seb said, they are being built
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> lunch then, bbl :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, they will come over time
<seb128> we are not in an hurry anyway since we have the ppa and we don't want to play catching up on abi breakages in natty yet
<seb128> we said we would wait to have the gtk abi to stabilize a bit to get gtk3 on the CD
<jcastro> didrocks: I didn't write the work items, I just split them off into milestones and organized them
<Zdra> seb128, I added gnome3-builds PPA and now clicking any link opens firefox instead of respecting my preference which is epiphany. (just to let you know in case that's a bug in those packages) :)
<ricotz> seb128, hi, would you mind using debsrc3 for the gnome-desktop3 package?
<seb128> Zdra, weird
<seb128> ricotz, hey, it already does in the current commit I did to the debian vcs
<seb128> ricotz, why do you need it?
<ricotz> seb128, ok, just looked at the ppa, it should be mandatory for new source packages ;)
<seb128> well the ppa vcs has it as well
<seb128> it's 3.0 quilt
<ricotz> ok, i only looked at the uploaded package
<seb128> ricotz, hey, it was just not a "new source", we used the gnome-desktop packaging
<seb128> but it's already fixed in the vcs
<ricotz> alright ;)
<nessita> hello people! packaging question: I'm starting a branch from scratch to create a new package. Is there a way of suing bzr merge-upstream to create the needed directory structure?
<nessita> using*
<rodrigo_> nessita, merge-upstream only merges the source code for the upstream, AFAIK, so you'll have to create debian/ still
<nessita> rodrigo_: I used to use it without having the debian dir
<nessita> rodrigo_: now I'm getting http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/528196/
<rodrigo_> right, it doesn't need a debian dir, it just merges a tarball into a branch
<rodrigo_> hmm, I guess he needs a previous version in debian/changelog?
<nessita> rodrigo_: right, but there is none :-)
<nessita> since this is the first time I'm packaging this project
<rodrigo_> nessita, if so, import the tarball into the branch "by hand", and then add the debian/ dir, next time merge-upstream should work
<rodrigo_> but there might be a better way
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti, didrocks ^^
<nessita> rodrigo_: how can I import it "by hand"?
<rodrigo_> nessita, tar xvzf tarball && bzr add $all_files
<rodrigo_> but wait for others's answers, there might be a better way
<didrocks> hey nessita
<didrocks> nessita: I think upstream is you, so in bzr as well?
<nessita> didrocks: yes!
<didrocks> nessita: bzr branch trunk packaging
<didrocks> cd packaging
<didrocks> bzr tag upstream-0.0.1
<didrocks> (or whatever :))
<didrocks> then, add your debian dir and make the first version without merge-upstream
<didrocks> bzr add
<didrocks> bzr commit -m "initial packaging" && debcommit -r
<didrocks> then, you will be able to use merge-upstream
<nessita> didrocks: there is no trunk yet
<didrocks> nessita: you are packaging something without any code ? :)
<rodrigo_> nessita, he means trunk from your project
<nessita> didrocks: there is no trunk for the package, yet.
<nessita> ah!
<rodrigo_> hmm, can't build any introspection stuff on natty :(
<rodrigo_> nessita, didrocks: although bzr branch trunk... will have the bzr history for the source project
<nessita> exactly
<rodrigo_> I would copy the tarball's contents and start the branch from that
<rodrigo_> but if didrocks says to do that, believe him more than me :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I never did that for the 20 packages I handle like that, common history means also common files id and less trouble in the future :)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, why not?
<seb128> rodrigo_, what do you try to build?
<rodrigo_> seb128, librest, ubuntuone-client and a couple others I don't remember right now
<rodrigo_> looking now what's wrong
<rodrigo_> maybe I'm missing some package?
<seb128> well without details on your error I can't say
<rodrigo_>   GISCAN RestExtras-0.7.gir
<rodrigo_> Namespace is empty; likely causes are:
<rodrigo_> * Not including .h files to be scanned
<rodrigo_> * Broken --identifier-prefix
<rodrigo_> the same in all modules I've tried
<boulabiar> didrocks: hmm seems best time to ask you about packaging ginn
<didrocks> boulabiar: you can just ask on the channel, if someone is around and can answer, she/he will :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you get the issue if you build libwnck?
<rodrigo_> let me try
<rodrigo_> from the package?
<boulabiar> I want to package it but will be able to push changes anytime
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, libwnck builds fine
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so it's a bug in your sources I guess
<seb128> rodrigo_, they probably didn't get updated for the abi changes in gir > 0.9.3
<rodrigo_> yes, in u1-client, it's missing the _NAMESPACE line, but not librest
<seb128> 0.9.5 or higher changed things
<seb128> well GNOME sources changes the options called in makefiles as well
<seb128> check maybe what they did there
<rodrigo_> ah, wait:
<rodrigo_> RestExtras-@API_VERSION@.gir: librest-extras-@API_VERSION@.la Makefile
<rodrigo_> RestExtras_@API_VERSION_AM@_gir_NAMESPACE = RestExtras
<rodrigo_> it's using API_VERSION and APT_VERSION_AM
<rodrigo_> right:
<rodrigo_> API_VERSION = 0.7
<rodrigo_> API_VERSION_AM = 0_7
<rodrigo_> right, that, and missing --identifier-prefix
<nessita> didrocks: when you have a moment, I'd like to ask your input in something related to setup.py for python projects
<didrocks> nessita: sure, not right now, but in 30 minutes should hopefully be good
<nessita> didrocks: awesome, would you ping me?
<didrocks> nessita: sure
<nessita> thanks!
<Zdra> seb128, FYI that was strange, just started chrome, it said it is not default, clicked to make it default, and now chrome starts when I click links... but changing in gnome-default-applications-properties didn't work :P
<seb128> Zdra, where do you click?
<seb128> Zdra, do you use something built with gtk3?
<seb128> could be a mismatch gsettings gconf
<Zdra> seb128, I don't think I have anything using gtk3
<seb128> ok, so I'm not sure why the capplet doesn't work
<Zdra> seb128, only did dist-upgrade after adding the ppa
<lamalex> How do I go about requesting that libjson-glib be updated in Natty?
<jcastro> didrocks: are you going to continue triaging unity bugs this cycle?
<jcastro> I need to find a bitesize bug as an example, any ideas?
<didrocks> jcastro: that's what I'm doing nobody else doing it right nowâ¦ but I won't have the time to do it full cycle
<jcastro> ok so who is supposed to do it?
<lamalex> didrocks, you keep doing them before I wake up
<lamalex> I go through all of my bugmail and go "ok didrocks already did this nm"
<didrocks> lamalex: there is 20 NEW bugs for a week I didn't touch in purpose
<didrocks> are*
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<jcastro> lamalex: ok so it's supposed to be you?
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
<didrocks> 29 in fact :)
<lamalex> jcastro, I think so..
<jcastro> lamalex: ok, I'm going to be doing a bitesize-bug campaign, basically like papercuts but for unity.
<didrocks> lamalex: you should begin with that then ^
<lamalex> ok, didrocks I will
<jcastro> lamalex: so as you get them if they're "easyish" please tag them bitesize
<didrocks> jcastro: we should only starts once compiz plugin is in natty
<jcastro> and then I will have a campaign to get new contributors starting on bitesize bugs
<lamalex> yah
<jcastro> didrocks: right, but I am explaining now before we forget
<didrocks> jcastro: I would propose also a hug day on compiz and unity (well, 2 in fact)
<jcastro> didrocks: yeah I will work with pedro on those
<jcastro> don't worry we'll have plenty of those I am sure!
<didrocks> unity in particular as we will have a lot of bug resolved by the compiz transition :)
<jcastro> I suspect we'll close 300 bugs when it lands
<jcastro> and then open 300 new ones!
<lamalex> didrocks, do you know about how to get json-glib updated?
<didrocks> lamalex: well, as I don't have time to follow closely the glib update, I'm not sure
<didrocks> jcastro: hehe
<didrocks> hum, weird
<lamalex> didrocks, it's not actually part of glib
<jcastro> lamalex: ok so like if you can identify bitesize's as they come in that would be <3
<didrocks> E: compiz-core: unstripped-binary-or-object ./usr/bin/compiz
<didrocks> (that was on purpose)
<didrocks> but:
<didrocks> Reading symbols from /usr/bin/compiz...(no debugging symbols found)...done.
<didrocks> oh, I think I got it
<seb128> lamalex, you should ask rodrigo_
<seb128> he's the maintainer
<rodrigo_> lamalex, well, I don't maintain json-glib, I just use it in couchdb-glib
<didrocks> rodrigo_: seems you maintain it now :)
<rodrigo_> upstream or the package? :)
<didrocks> (congrats!)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, :-D
<rodrigo_> lamalex, should be safe to upgrade, and I think nothing else uses it
<lamalex> rodrigo_, I'm happy to do the work, I just can't find a document explaining how to do it
<rodrigo_> lamalex, hmm, the ubuntu-desktop branch should do all the magic
<lamalex> it seems like the lp:ubuntu/json-glib package includes the whole source and just just the debian dir
<lamalex> which seems weird to me
<rodrigo_> lamalex, just branch lp:~ubuntu-desktop/json-glib/ubuntu, add the new version to debian/changelog
<rodrigo_> lamalex, and propose that branch (after making sure it builds)
<kklimonda_> hmm, looks like I have a hilight set on json-glib - every time it's mentioned I somehow end up reading the discussion ;)
<rodrigo_> kklimonda_, :)
<kklimonda_> good evening :)
<rodrigo_> hello kklimonda_
<seb128> lamalex, don't bother with learning packaging for that
<seb128> I can do the update for you
<lamalex> seb128, ha ok
 * lamalex is kind of interested though
<lamalex> also I need the package on maverick
<lamalex> (or I'd like it)
<rodrigo_> seb128, can we upgrade packages now in natty?
<rodrigo_> seb128, json-glib one, that is
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you want to do the update?
<rodrigo_> if lamalex wants to learn doing it, I'm ok, if not, sure, I'll do it
<lamalex> rodrigo_, I think it'd be good for me to know
<lamalex> but I can't find the json-glib project in ~ubuntu-desktop
<rodrigo_> lamalex, oh, maybe it's not there
<lamalex> I dont think itis
<lamalex> there is lp:ubuntu/json-glib
<lamalex> is that the same?
<rodrigo_> no
<lamalex> is that a source package?
<seb128> lamalex, debcheckout json-glib
<rodrigo_> in that case, branch lp:ubuntu/json-glib
<micahg> would any of the GNOME library updates have caused bug 662387 requiring a rebuild?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 662387 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Gnome-shell aborts, can't find schema 'org.gnome.shell" (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662387
<rodrigo_> lamalex, and then -> bzr merge-upstream new-tarball.tar.gz --version $new_version
<lamalex> seb128, No repository found for package libjson-glib-1.0-0.
<seb128> micahg, I doubt our g-s version uses gsettings
<seb128> lamalex, right, which means it doesn't have a specific vcs
<micahg> seb128: so, should I update to 2.91.1?
<seb128> lamalex, otherwise it would have done the checkout for you, but what rodrigo says
<seb128> micahg, you can try, I'm pretty sure we lack depends for it
<seb128> it requires a gtk3 stack, updated gjs, etc
<micahg> seb128: ah, ok, so I guess I'll just let it be broke until more gtk3 components are in?
<seb128> I guess so
<seb128> you can try to update but I think it will lack things
<micahg> seb128: ok, thanks, I'll plan on updating, but not before some other components
<seb128> well if you try let us know what is missing
<seb128> we can try to get those in natty next maybe
<lamalex> rodrigo_,  bzr: ERROR: Unknown target distribution: natty
<micahg> seb128: ok, I just won't have time until later this month to really start digging
<didrocks> nessita: ping, sorry, was quite delayed but it's ok now :)
<lamalex> rodrigo_, nm
<rodrigo_> lamalex, you are on maverick?
<seb128> lamalex, you are on maverick?
<lamalex> i am on maverick
<rodrigo_> right, it doesn't know about natty
<seb128> bug #668764
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 668764 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "Add Natty to the list of known distros (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/668764
<seb128> lamalex, edit /usr/share/pyshared/bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/util.py
<seb128> then add natty to UBUNTU_RELEASES
<lamalex> yes, I that's why I said nm :)
<lamalex> i think one of you guys should just do this, it's erroring when I build
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^
<lamalex> ah wait it was because I was just doing dbuild
<lamalex> so bzr was f'ing it up
<rodrigo_> lamalex, bzr bd is what you need
<rodrigo_> bzr bd -- -b
<lamalex> yeah, I remembered
<nessita> didrocks: argh, can I ping you back in 15 minutes? I'm about to have lunch
<nessita> :-)
<rodrigo_> lamalex, if you can't build it, let me know and I'll do it
<seb128> nessita, enjoy your lunch ;-)
<didrocks> nessita: sure, enjoy :)
<didrocks>  /me quit "tooo late :-)"
<nessita> thanks!
<lamalex> rodrigo_, how do I tell it not to try and sign the deb?
<rodrigo_> lamalex, no idea, I always sign it
<rodrigo_> but it's done via debuild, so look at its man page
<rodrigo_> in fact, what I run is bzr bd -- -b -k'rodrigo.moya@canonical.com'
<rodrigo_> whatever you put after the '--' is passed to debuild
<and471> mpt, hey, so I have spoken with kvalo and I shall be starting on the UI code for the Networking mockups :)
<mpt> and471, cool bananas
<and471> mpt, I ahve done some more work on the toggleswitch thing, if you download this script and run it ( python script.py )
<and471> hehe
<and471> mpt, http://ubuntuone.com/p/NqF/
<and471> mpt, so I have clicking, dragging, snapping - a lot working now :)
 * mpt runs the program and watches as all his files are deleted and his credit card stops working
<lamalex> woo finally building :)
<mpt> and471, the last digit of your PI approximation is wrong. It should be 2, not 1
 * mpt ducks
 * and471 blames nzmm
<and471> mpt, I stole that bit of code so you can blame nzmm :)
<mpt> oh, yeah, we have a slightly different value for pi in New Zealand
<mpt> That's why our pies taste better
<and471> hehe, silly kiwis...
<and471> mpt, so is the switch behaving as you expected?
<mpt> It's splendid
<mpt> I'm wondering whether the sliding "ON" and "OFF" is actually better than leaving them static underneath the sliding switch, though
<and471> mpt, basically I just copied the iphone in this case, but I can change it if need be
<and471> mpt, I personally think it looks better when they do slide, but that is becuase it is more *shiny* :)
<and471> *because
<mpt> mm
<mpt> The lower left corner is just a tiny bit squarer than the other corners
<nessita> didrocks: I'm back, are you available?
<didrocks> nessita: sure
<and471> mpt, I don't actually know how that would be possible
<and471> mpt, I can't see it myself
<mpt> and471, the lower right corner is #d4d2d0, but the lower left corner is darker, #d4d0cd. The only way I can think that's happening is if the radius is slightly smaller for that corner. Or if the curve is not starting in quite the same place.
<nessita> didrocks: so, I was wondering what's the proper way of dealing with paths within a python project. For instance, at installation time we need to have certain files placed in certain folders. I was wondering what's the proper way to deal with this.
<nessita> didrocks: example: providing a DBus service that needs a particular file placed somewhere in the filesystem
<mpt> and471, other than that, it's excellent work, well done.
<didrocks> nessita: what do you use, in setup.py, python-distutils, python-distutils-extra or distribute?
<nessita> didrocks: python-distutils-extra, but I can change to whatever you recommned
<nessita> recommend*
<didrocks> no python-distutils-extra is fine :)
<and471> mpt, thankyou, I shall have a look at that later
<didrocks> let's see if there is dbus service file support in it
<nessita> didrocks: in my current setup.py, the /usr/lib/<project>/<service> path is hardcoded and I can't sleep at night because of it
<didrocks> nessita: I'm not the only one the be stressed easily then :)
<didrocks> why the service file should be there?
<lamalex> rodrigo_, I can't figure out how to propose a merge on this
<lamalex> my branch is at https://code.launchpad.net/~alexlauni/+junk/json-glib-0.12
<didrocks> nessita: python-distutils-extra should ship it to /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ automatically
<didrocks> (it should just be a services file at the root of your project)
<nessita> didrocks: yes to the .service file, but
<mpt> and471, ah, the lower left corner pixel is only darker after the first click on the switch after focusing the window -- and then, only when I'm not mousing down on the switch. Mouse down, it gets lighter; mouse up, it gets darker again.
<nessita> didrocks: the .service file has a path in it
<rodrigo_> lamalex, oh, +junk branches cannot be proposed, afaik
<nessita> didrocks: and I'd like that path not be hardcoded. Current example of a .service file:
<didrocks> nessita: oh, your "service" itself, ok
<nessita> yes
<lamalex> rodrigo_,  i couldn't figure out what the correct path was to push to
<rodrigo_> lamalex, you should have pushed to lp:~alexlauni/ubuntu/json-glib/json-glib-0.12.0
<didrocks> nessita: hum, you need to add this automagic in setup.py so, reading from a service.in generating a service file from the values in it
<rodrigo_> lamalex, then you'll see a 'propose for merging' link, and then propose it for lp:ubuntu/json-glib
<lamalex> rodrigo_, yeah I tried that and got bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~alexlauni/ubuntu/json-glib/json-glib-0.12.0": No such distribution series json-glib.
<didrocks> nessita: let me find you an example
<nessita> didrocks: right. But how can I fing out which path use to replace?
<nessita> didrocks: current .service file is http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/528253/
<rodrigo_> lamalex, yeah, it's  lp:~alexlauni/ubuntu/natty/json-glib/json-glib-0.12.0
<nessita> didrocks: in a aideal world, /usr/lib/ubuntuone-control-panel is not hardcoded
<lamalex> rodrigo_, yes I just tried that right now :P
<nessita> didrocks: and I replace that path using something given at installation time
<lamalex> and it appears to be working
<and471> mpt, ah I see what you mean now, I shall note it but I am a bit busy now, it is definitely something to look at
<didrocks> nessita: you hardcoded it in setup.py btw? or you just install it using the .install file?
<nessita> didrocks: what's a .install file? I'm not using any
<lamalex> rodrigo_, thanks for all of your help! https://code.launchpad.net/~alexlauni/ubuntu/natty/json-glib/json-glib-0.12.0/+merge/40353
<didrocks> nessita: in other world, how you say "install ubuntuone-control-panel-backend thereâ¦"
<lamalex> lots was learned
<nessita> didrocks: using data_files
<nessita> didrocks:
<nessita>      91         ('lib/ubuntuone-client', ['bin/ubuntuone-control-panel',
<nessita>      92                                   'bin/ubuntuone-control-panel-backend']),
<nessita> maybe that's my problem?
<didrocks> nessita: ok, then you just need $prefix support, I have that somewhere, one sec
<rodrigo_> lamalex, now you need to ping someone to sponsor the package, I can't do it yet
<lamalex> ;) ok
<lamalex> didrocks, seb128? ^
<seb128> lamalex, didrocks, rodrigo_: ok
<nessita> didrocks: so I shouldn't be using .install files? (whatever they are :-p)
<didrocks> nessita: no, .install is only for packaging :)
<didrocks> nessita: one second, building a skeleton in a pastebin
<nessita> didrocks: ok, thanks!
<didrocks> nessita: is that understandable: http://paste.ubuntu.com/528257/ ?
 * nessita looks
<nessita> didrocks: nice! is pretty understandable
<nessita> didrocks: I'll fix both ussoc and u1cp setup.py
<didrocks> nessita: nice :)
<nessita> didrocks: another (not related) question: Chipaca mentioned I had a work item assigned to me in https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-oneconf. Can you please clarify what the work item is?
<nessita> didrocks: I'm not sure that "provide dbus method for u1 sso so that a popup dialog isn't needed" is what we discussed in the session, that's why I'm asking
<lamalex> and471, that toggle is quite nice
<didrocks> nessita: isn't that what you told me? something so that I can ask for signing in without having the u1 sso dialog?
<nessita> didrocks: mmmm nopes :-) What we agreed on (I think) is the following:
<nessita> * the installer will use the current (existent) dbus service to login a user (this dbus service is located at com.ubuntu.sso, object path /com/ubuntu/sso/accounts, interface com.ubuntu.sso.UserManagement). The method name is 'login', and it returns the SSO credentials
<nessita> * the installer will store the credentials <somewhere>
<nessita> * at first boot, the installer will grab those credentials from <somewhere> and store them using the new (this is new, yes) dbus method
<nessita> didrocks: so my work item would be to provide this dbus method to store credentials.
<didrocks> nessita: yeah, I mix the "store them using the new dbus method", sorry for the wording, can you update the wi?
<didrocks> waow, Shift + w is a shortcut for the expose mode in compiz now
<nessita> didrocks: sure! but I wanted to be in synch with you
<and471> lamalex, thankyou :)
<didrocks> weird when you try to type wi in capital letters :)
<nessita> didrocks: FYI, the new dbus method is already in place, but crashes because the keyring can't be accessed within a thread (!)
<nessita> but yes, we need to fix that (Still trying to see how we're fixing it, no clear view of that)
<didrocks> nessita: nice (or sort of nice :)). Thanks for the info
 * rodrigo_ bbl
<nessita> didrocks: blueprint updated and branch linked
<didrocks> nessita: thanks :)
<seb128> lamalex, you need at least to update the gobject-introspection build-depends to match the configure requirement
<seb128> in the json-glib update
<seb128> lamalex, you need also to update the shlibs or build a .symbol
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ do you think you could help lamalex to get the json-glib update done?
<lamalex> updated the build-depends
<nessita> didrocks: where can I learn what directories/files are automatically handled by distutils-extra?
<lamalex> seb128, shouldn't shlibs be handled automagically?
<lamalex> isn't that why it depends on $shelibs
<didrocks> nessita: /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/DistUtilsExtra/auto.py, at the top, you have a description
<nessita> didrocks: thanks!
<didrocks> yw :)
<seb128> lamalex, no, there is no easy way to know what symbols were in the previous version or added in the source you build
<lamalex> Why is that part of the packaging?
<seb128> lamalex, because depends are part of the packaging system
<seb128> lamalex, http://wiki.debian.org/UsingSymbolsFiles
<seb128> lamalex, there is nothing which tell you in a reliable way what symbol has been added when in the upstream world
<seb128> debian used to use shlibs
<seb128> which is a way to say "this version has the current api, so depends on it if you want to be sure to work"
<seb128> the maintainer had to bump that number every time the abi change
<seb128> nowadays we have symbols
<seb128> basically the dpkg wrapper checks all the symbols shipped
<lamalex> ah
<lamalex> i dont really get how to make a symbols file, that wiki page isn't very helpful if you're not familiar with the whole thing
<lamalex> do I need to manually write a list of the symbols?
<seb128> no
<seb128> dpkg-gensymbols do that for you
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ can you help him?
<seb128> I'm to finish some task and run for sport in 15 minutes
<kenvandine> seb128, sure can
<james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/stefanlsd/dpkg-gensymbols might help
<seb128> james_w, hey ;-) thanks
<lamalex> this packaging stuff is for the birds man
<lamalex> I don't know how you guys do i
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> lamalex, is that link more helpful?
<lamalex> kenvandine, not sure. reading it now
<lamalex> it certainly has more on it
<nessita> didrocks: have slot for another distutils extra question?
<didrocks> nessita: sure
<nessita> didrocks: when the help says "* D-Bus (*.conf and *.service)" or "* GtkBuilder (*.ui) [installed into prefix/share/<projectname>/]", how can I know in which directory should I place the .service and .ui files?
<nessita> didrocks: so those are correctly grabbed and used
<didrocks> nessita: it's in src
<didrocks> for f in src_fileglob(src, '*.service'):
<nessita> didrocks: right. Another question (can't promise it will be the last one :-P): what command should I override to customize the cleaning process?
<didrocks> nessita: something like "clean"? :)
<nessita> didrocks: I don't see the DistUtilsExtra.auto.clean definition in order to override it
<didrocks> nessita: it's clean_build_tree you should call at the end
<didrocks> nessita: so, override the clean call, and inherite from a clean_build_tree class
<nessita> didrocks: when you say clean call you mean the 'clean' key in the cmdclass dict, right?
<didrocks> nessita: no, I mean something like that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/528285/
<didrocks> (the latest call of run())
<nessita> didrocks: that's what I meant! :-P
<didrocks> nessita: ok, I was thinking you were speaking about the cmdclass={'clean': BlablaClean}) line where I was speaking about the DistUtilsExtra.auto.clean_build_tree.run(self) call :)
<nessita> didrocks: kinda, but I understood correctly, so thanks,
<didrocks> nessita: yw :)
<nessita> didrocks: why not using super() instead of DistUtilsExtra.auto.clean_build_tree.run(self) ?
<nessita> same question for install)auto
<nessita> install_auto*
<didrocks> nessita: no reason, that's better to use super() indeed
<didrocks> well, at least, no reason I can think of :)
<nessita> ack :-)
<didrocks> dinner and sport, goodnight everybody!
 * didrocks quit
<bryceh> seb128, can you assign this blueprint over to me?  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-easy-wayland-testing
<rodrigo_> any idea why I get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/528353/
<rodrigo_> if I remove the dh --with-autoreconf line, it doesn't fail, but it fails on missing ./configure, although it is in the upstream tarball
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, the dh --with autoreconf cleanbuilddir line seems wrong, the list should be comman separated
<chrisccoulson> *comma
<rodrigo_> hmm
<chrisccoulson> at least, i think so ;)
<rodrigo_> %::
<rodrigo_>         dh --with autoreconf $@
<chrisccoulson> oh
<rodrigo_> the upstream tarball doesn't have an autogen.sh, that's why I added that
<rodrigo_> debian/rules -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/528357/
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> i guess mixing CDBS and dh7 might not help there
<chrisccoulson> yeah, some CDBS target has a dependency on cleanbuilddir, which triggers the match-all target in your debian/rules
<chrisccoulson> and cleanbuilddir is not a valid debhelper target
<chrisccoulson> that's the problem :)
<chrisccoulson> rodrigo_, so, you need to decide between dh7 and cdbs. if you use cdbs, then you should drop the match-all target from debian/rules and include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/autoreconf.mk
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> what would you suggest? dh or cdbs?
<chrisccoulson> or you could use dh7, which would mean you'd drop the CDBS includes, and then use the dh7 way of specifying configure flags
<chrisccoulson> most people are moving from cdbs to dh7
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> if you use dh7, i think you need to provide an override_dh_auto_configure target, which calls dh_auto_configure with your configure arguments
<chrisccoulson> the manpage for dh_auto_configure might say how to do that though
<chrisccoulson> i don't use dh7 yet
<latenite> Hi folk, I use pam_usb and a usbstick to login to my system. All I editet in /etc/pam.d/ is http://pastie.org/1282660 BUT after successfully login in WITH the stick I STILL get asked for the keyring password? I ont want that! How do I unlock the keyring also? Thanks
<latenite> anybody up in here?
<charlie-tca> latenite: yes, people are here, but support is in #ubuntu
<latenite> ohh ok did n know
<latenite> what in here?
<charlie-tca> home of the Desktop team
<charlie-tca> mostly the developers
<rodrigo_> ok, now it builds!
<rodrigo_> not sure if it's a hack what I came up with, so will push my branch for a review
<latenite> charlie-tca, oh ok :) sorry for jumping in so quick...did n know :)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<seb128> bryceh, done
<bryceh> seb128, thanks
<seb128> np
<seb128> bryceh, you probably want to update the workitems, or at least the distro serie
<bryceh> seb128, ok
<czajkowski> kenvandine: what does one do when Unity has a hissy fit and freezes doing ctl alt F1 seems less than a great solution
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-09
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, how do I find the list of Ubuntu archive admins?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Afaik there is a list on the wiki somewhere, I think under ArchiveAdministration.
<micahg> robert_ancell: do you need all of them or just the ones on duty?
<robert_ancell> micahg, I just need someone to let gsettings-desktop-schemas out of the NEW queue
<micahg> robert_ancell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Archive days
<micahg> robert_ancell: worse case, pitti will be around in a few hours
<robert_ancell> micahg, thanks
<robert_ancell> pitti, ^^^ can you give gsettings-desktop-schemas a kick please?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell-af: sure, looking
<pitti> robert_ancell-af: done
<pitti> Riddell: oh, BTW, WIs from Kubuntu/Todo/Natty wiki: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/kubuntu-dev.html (per-milestone views also available)
<pitti> robert_ancell-af: do you intend to have https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-display-manager targetted to natty? If so, could you please draft it RSN?
<pitti> erk
<pitti> after today's dist-upgrade, my terminal themes are completely messed up
<bryceh> heya pitti
<pitti> hey bryceh, how are you?
<RAOF> bryceh: Are you going to sleep at all today? :)
<bryceh> pitti, I'm ok... had a death in the family
<pitti> bryceh: uuh, I'm sorry to hear that!
<bryceh> pitti, just as a reminder, I scheduled to take tues and wed off.  national holiday thursday
<pitti> bryceh: thanks for the heads-up
<bryceh> I may need to take friday off as well, depending on when the service for my sister is scheduled
<bryceh> and for a bit of good news, I've got wayland packaged!  https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/wayland/+packages
<bryceh> however something's not quite right with mesa... says insufficient opengl es 2 support when I run the compositor
<bryceh> (but I think I know why that is)
<seb128> hello
<didrocks> lut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> bryceh, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<pitti>  bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, guten tag!
<robert_ancell> seb128, good morning
<seb128> robert_ancell, I just replied to your email
<seb128> robert_ancell, we need a better way to communicate who is working on what now and next
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I wrote that email because it felt like it was going like that
<seb128> robert_ancell, I don't think we duplicated lot of work there but it's close enough and that's not going any better with extra team members
<bryceh> seb128, heya
<seb128> bryceh, can you send me a cairo debdiff?
<robert_ancell> seb128, let's work out a process.  I propose, we make versions track GNOME3, even if the packages are in the PPA and not natty, we write changes to the bzr branches, and make a maverick branch if we keep on a stable version
<bryceh> seb128, yes
<seb128> bryceh, thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, that's a process to solve what?
<robert_ancell> seb128, so we can work out who's working on what
<seb128> we rather need a whiteboard
<seb128> versions is not enough
<seb128> I'm working on gnome-panel 2.32 locally but version would not show that
<seb128> didrocks is working on compiz 0.9
<seb128> rodrigo_ is working on g-s-d and g-c-c 2.91
<robert_ancell> seb128, I think versions and bzr did a good job last cycle - wouldn't you put your changes in bzr as UNRELEASED?
<seb128> well there is always a gap between when you start work and well you feel it's in a pushable state
<bryceh> seb128, sent
<robert_ancell> seb128, true, and in that case you can track it with a bug on LP that shows in versions
<robert_ancell> that way you can also write down problems etc
<seb128> I was pondering using http://openetherpad.org/
<seb128> or a wiki
<robert_ancell> I personally like to use the issue tracker because it's already set up for tracking lots of tasks and you can subscribe to the ones you are interested in
<seb128> well I don't deny that, I'm just wondering if we need a whiteboard as well
<seb128> I've some things I'm thinking to do next
<seb128> like dropping applets using bonobo from the default install
<seb128> but it's not really one component
<robert_ancell> seb128, track that in the blueprint?
<robert_ancell> we should all be subscribed to that
<seb128> it doesn't really fit the bzr or bug workflow
<seb128> well an http://openetherpad.org/YgvS4TjbKm
<seb128> for example would be nice
<seb128> it's a real time editor gobby like
<seb128> just an url to open
<seb128> it shows who wrote what
<seb128> we could dump comments, ideas on what to work for other people, etc
<robert_ancell> I don't think the real-time aspect is useful in this case, the most important feature we need is visibility and tracking.  It's obviously better than the blueprint whiteboard for handling who wrote what
<seb128> right, it's rather that edit is low cost
<seb128> it doesn't email pitti or people tracking specs
<seb128> so it's easier to dump a few though at the end of the day, like bugs worth investigation, random ideas of things we should do
<seb128> I don't think it should replace what you described before
<robert_ancell> I'm ok as long as it's an unofficial record, i.e. any actions that come out of it should become bugs/blueprint items
<seb128> ok, so let's say we do what you suggested before and add a pad for notes
<robert_ancell> agreed
<nigelb> 59
<seb128> the pad is really for dumping "would be nice if somebody wants to pick on that, or email the team about something"
<robert_ancell> I'll read that in the morning
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you have 5 minutes ?
<robert_ancell> seb128, yup
<seb128> to discuss GNOME 2.91
<seb128> ok great
<seb128> so you want to track the new version?
<seb128> I would rather like adding an extra column
<robert_ancell> I think versions would be more useful tracking the latest versions, and we should package them even if we don't put them into natty
<seb128> ideally we would pick things we track on the 2.91 serie
<seb128> the way we picked the things which stayed on old series before
<seb128> opt in for upgrades
<robert_ancell> yeah, was also thinking of that.  We need to refactor versions - it's becoming a bit of a monster :)
<robert_ancell> how are you for workload atm?
<seb128> well we can use the same thing we use to pick up things stay on 2.30
<robert_ancell> (I can do the versions stuff if you want)
<seb128> workload ... no reply
<robert_ancell> seb128, :)
<seb128> I've nothing urgent but if you count the GNOME3 spec enough to be busy for the next 2 cycles
<seb128> thursday is an holiday there
<seb128> and I'm taking friday off
<seb128> I want to land the new gnome-panel today
<seb128> starting to get ride of bonobo applets
<robert_ancell> uh huh.  GNOME3 is feeling a "bit all or nothing" so I'm worried we might end up bringing everything with it even if we don't want to
<seb128> and the gnome-desktop on gtk3
<seb128>  
<seb128> ok that was my next topic
<seb128> how is that the case?
<seb128> it's that if you take g-s-d
<seb128> which is why I suggested we would start easy
<seb128> taking standalone applications rather
<robert_ancell> well, take eog.  If you take it to GTK3, then the plugins need to be GTK3, and the Python bindings need to be GTK3
<seb128> using eog or gedit or gcalctool should not force our hands
<seb128> what bindings? the new version should use gi? and the plugins are part of the same source or there is an extra source
<robert_ancell> The applications have been getting more integrated over time.  We might find we have to patch a few things
<seb128> it just force you to update the eog stack, 2 sources
<seb128> well we should review things we upgrade for depends on system components
<seb128> like eog or gcalctool should be self restricted
<robert_ancell> should be :)
<robert_ancell> It's just my gut instinct.  But you know I'm never against moving forwards
<seb128> I think I'm rather on the careful side compared to other people there
<robert_ancell> I agree!
<seb128> but I don't foresee real issues with eog or gcalctool for example
<seb128> I would be happy to be educated on what you considered risky
<seb128> I might revisit my position ;-)
<robert_ancell> you don't know what features I have planned for 6.0...
<robert_ancell> I think there might just be lots of little problems which can add up to a big time sink
<seb128> well which is why the plan was to pick a few applications
<seb128> not to track 2.91
<robert_ancell> but I don't think we'll know until nearer the alphas
<seb128> just to exerce gtk3
<seb128> we can still downgrade the calculator if we need
<robert_ancell> true
<seb128> I though about taking like 5
<seb128> doing the end of the year with only those
<seb128> and revisit what to upgrade at the rally
<seb128> we can work on extra ones in a ppa meanwhile
<robert_ancell> I think we should just push them all into the PPA, and migrate the ones that are working well into natty
<seb128> we will just not bring things over for now
<seb128> well, keep in mind that gtk3 is not abi or api stable yet
<seb128> I don't want the ppa to turn into a time sink
<seb128> which is why I didn't suggest we start tracking 2.91 even in a ppa
<seb128> some parts of the stack are not there yet and we would waste lot of time by trying to get them in shape
<seb128> ie nautilus
<robert_ancell> I treat it like a staging area
<seb128> ok, so just upgrade things we think are worth trying now
<seb128> ?
<robert_ancell> I'll modify versions so we can track both and then at least we know
<seb128> ok thanks
<robert_ancell> atm I'm losing visibility into what we have up to date.  I don't have your crazy memory for tracking all this in my head ;)
<seb128> well, versions track what we are interested in
<seb128> we want to be uptodate in the 2.32 serie
<robert_ancell> well versions just says "everything is out of date" atm
<seb128> and we want to bring the gtk3 stack in
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<seb128> it doesn't?
<robert_ancell> It's got a few 2.91s in there
<seb128> I don't know why
<seb128> I need to investigate those
<seb128> we still use vuntz's 2.32 list
<robert_ancell> I did ping him about a few of those
<seb128> I guess he has been busy travelling
<seb128> he's on the road for a month or so
<seb128> ok, back to taking actions
<seb128> you will update versions to track 2.32 and have an extra column 2.91?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> ideally we need a way to say what serie we track by source
<seb128> or rather list those which are tracking 2.91
<seb128> we probably need a way to have the same source twice
<seb128> gtk2 and gtk3
<seb128> robert_ancell, what is your todo for the end of the week?
<robert_ancell> they are different packages
<seb128> right...
<robert_ancell> keep updating stuff, also been looking at the nautilus elementary patches
<robert_ancell> thinking about next week updating main box to natty and getting unity working
<robert_ancell> we have all the base gnome stuff covered now, right?
<seb128> arg
<seb128> let me fwd you some emails
<robert_ancell> I thought you guys had all gone on holiday...
<seb128> robert_ancell, why?
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, if the email are about nautilus, jason forwarded them to me
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so I fwd you 2 emails about elementary
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> yeah, already got them
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> been very quiet from this side of the world!
<seb128> I should be better to keep you informed for those
<robert_ancell> feel free to cc
<seb128> robert_ancell, isn't it always quiet? ;-)
 * robert_ancell is a poet
<seb128> will do
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, so tasks...want to update gtk to 2.23?
<seb128> gtk2
<robert_ancell> can do
<seb128> ok, so add it to your list
<seb128> robert_ancell, that and lpi gtk3
<robert_ancell> I've been impressed with GTK3 so far
<seb128> and libgnomekbd3, what is missing?
<seb128> do you need review?
<robert_ancell> I've done libgnomekbd
<seb128> ok, I didn't check, you just wrote in was work in progress in your email
<seb128> can you push it to trunk then or maybe natty?
<robert_ancell> groan, not looking forward to doing lpi.  I was wondering if we could get everything that uses it updated, but I don't think we can
<seb128> robert_ancell, impressed how? do you find it much different from gtk2?
<seb128> robert_ancell, no we can't, do you want me to ask mterry to do it?
<seb128> robert_ancell, he did that for libindicat* already
<robert_ancell> I haven't pushed it because it has changed api - so everything that depends on it needs to be updated or it wont build - this is why I was saying you put one thing in and everything else gets dragged in
<robert_ancell> lpi, yeah give it to mterry
<seb128> ok
<robert_ancell> GTK3 is nice in that it's got some good improvements, but I haven't seen any big problems with things migrating to it
<seb128> robert_ancell, oh, and I guess only 2.9n applications are updated for the new api
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> should we have another source then?
<seb128> libgnomekbd building the gtk2 version and staying there
<robert_ancell> so, it's in the PPA, but I want to check carefully we don't paint ourselves into a corner.
<seb128> libgnomekbd3 building the gtk3 version
<seb128> it means we don't need to rebuild anyway
<seb128> we just have the new lib there for those who need it
<robert_ancell> we should talk to Debian about that I guess - can you do that?
<seb128> I can
<seb128> vuntz suggested doing that for things that break abi
<robert_ancell> ok, let me know and I'll update the package if so
<seb128> keep the old lib as it is
<seb128> and build a new source for the gtk3 version
<robert_ancell> yup
<seb128> it allow to transition over time
<seb128> I will do that today
<seb128> ok, I think that was it on my list
<seb128> so versions update for you
<seb128> gtk 2.23
<seb128> and clean a bit http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html if you want
<seb128> though we are mostly uptodate
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> but feel free to pick in the gnome3 spec work items if you get bored
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, hey
<seb128> robert_ancell, you don't have an idea about bug #408417 btw?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 408417 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "No option to log in remotely via XDMCP (affects: 223) (dups: 2) (heat: 1052)" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408417
<seb128> I guess I will need to check that, users an unhappy
<seb128> debian sent a patch upstream adressing some issues, it seems combined with building without ipv6 it works somewhat
<seb128> (hate gdm)
<robert_ancell> seb128, I have been keeping an eye on it.  The GDM XDMCP code is not pretty
<seb128> robert_ancell, did you check on the debian fix?
<rodrigo_> hey robert_ancell, up late?
<robert_ancell> It's open in a tab in FF, haven't looked in detail
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, I left early to go into town, but also so I can catch up with you guys :)
 * seb128 is happy that robert_ancell was around
<seb128> nice to catch up a bit every now and then ;-)
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'll have a look at the XDMCP stuff
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks
<robert_ancell> I have little faith in it though
<seb128> I guess you are set for tomorrow with tasks
<robert_ancell> yeah, I go crazy without catching up now and then
<rodrigo_> yeah, too many hours difference, can't we move nz a bit more westwards? :)
<robert_ancell> How is unity going, does it work on natty?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I can still drop you an email with some ideas for next tasks today if you want
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, we need to move it around to track the sun
<seb128> robert_ancell, unity in natty not yet, wait a bit
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, didrocks is fighting compiz 0.9 for a week
<seb128> he should land in the next days
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm not looking for more work!  Just finding out where the team is!
<seb128> once compiz is there you can build unity easily
<didrocks> (fighting is the word!)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I was not sure if you needed a sense of what we need next
<robert_ancell> didrocks, feeling for you
<rodrigo_> seb128, robert_ancell: oh, btw, are we creating a ppa for apps? I should have g-s-d and g-c-c today probably
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've the feeling you will get crazy on GNOME 2.9n otherwise
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you start on those?
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, oh, aren't we just putting them in gnome3-builds?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, you're welcome, but thanks for what?
<didrocks> robert_ancell: I'm at the final stage right now, just have to kill the boss and see the end :-)
<robert_ancell> didrocks, quad damage!
<didrocks> rodrigo_: bad completion as weechat autocomplete on the first name :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, been fighting with librest and libsocialweb, and fixing some serious bugs upstream
<didrocks> rodrigo_: but thanks anyway :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, check your emails
<rodrigo_> didrocks, :D
<seb128> rodrigo_, robert_ancell has been working on it as well, packaging libgnomekbd for gtk3
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, on g-c-c?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, was aiming for g-c-c, but didn't get to it (lucky I checked in on what you guys are doing!)
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, ok, libgnomekbd is ok, so keep on that, but leave g-s-d and g-c-c to me, please
<seb128> rodrigo_, you will need to review the g-c-c patches I guess
<rodrigo_> seb128, I applied most of them upstream
<seb128> g-c-c as well?
<seb128> I followed only the g-s-d work
<rodrigo_> ah, g-c-c, is coming, yes
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, np, there is some patch updates in lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/gnome-settings-daemon-gnome3 if you haven't done them yet
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, was waiting for the new release, which I'll do today
<seb128> robert_ancell, rodrigo got half the patches upstream this week
<seb128> that will make our job easier
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, but cool, I'll have a look at your branch
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, yay for upstreaming!
<rodrigo_> yeah, specially because a lot of stuff has changed, so most of them won't apply
<robert_ancell> pitti, what do I set the blueprint status to again? pending approval?
<pitti> robert_ancell: yes, once you are done with drafting
<robert_ancell> pitti, ta
<robert_ancell> so who is running natty on their main boxes?
<pitti> o/
<robert_ancell> pitti, heh, you got in early!
<pitti> since UDS Friday :)
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, me
<robert_ancell> I'm still using a VM :)
<robert_ancell> seb128, do you think I should push the murrine/light-themes changes to natty?  They seem to be ok
<seb128> yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, I've a mixed natty
<seb128> I added the natty source and apt-get install things I need or want over time
<rodrigo__> btw, if someone can review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/libsocialweb , not sure what I've done is good, looks like a hack to me
<robert_ancell> also opposed to adding remove libdbus-glib to the GNOME3 blueprint (as a maybe)
<seb128> it gives me an updated desktop stack without taking xorg etc
<seb128> robert_ancell, you are not the first one to ask, we should clarify, I think it's lot of work and little gain
<seb128> robert_ancell, I didn't plan to set it as an active goals
<robert_ancell> seb128, as little gain as libglade etc
<seb128> well libglade is doable
<seb128> I don't see dbus-glib being done in one cycle
<robert_ancell> fair enough
<seb128> we can list it as a "start cleaning dbus-glib"
<robert_ancell> I don't see packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3 being done in one cycle :)
<seb128> well the workitems should be
<seb128> we have been reasonable there
<rodrigo__> :)
<robert_ancell> well, that's why we add it as a maybe, and then defer all the maybes to next cycle
<seb128> ok
<seb128> feel free to add it
<seb128> dx is switching their indicator stack to gdbus already
<robert_ancell> seb128, when I've tried porting stuff to it it doesn't seem as easy a glib-dbus (at least for acquiring a bus name)
<rodrigo__> yeah, it's a bit more 'complex'
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, I love your message in libsocialweb
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, yeah, just saw I only did 1 commit :)
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, oh, can you make the depends lists one package per line - it makes them easier to diff
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, yes, sure
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, pushed
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, It's one of my crusades...
<rodrigo_> :)
<bryceh> robert_ancell, a noble crusade :-)
<robert_ancell> later all
<rodrigo_> pitti, hmm, what happened with the gsettings-desktop-schemas package? it seems there's still no ~ubuntu-desktop branch
<rodrigo_> bye robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rodrigo_, It needed a new project registered in LP, I did that earlier today
<rodrigo_> robert_ancell, ah, ok
<robert_ancell> so it just needs to be pushed now
<pitti> rodrigo_: bzr lp-open lp:ubuntu/gsettings-desktop-schemas
<pitti> robert_ancell, rodrigo_: I thought we wanted to use the "native" package branch for this?
<pitti> (created by the auto-importer)
<rodrigo_> pitti, ah, as you like
<robert_ancell> pitti, what does that do? does that make a new project automatically?
<pitti> robert_ancell: it's not a project branch, it's a package branch
<robert_ancell> pitti, so LP knows about the package, but you don't need to make a project?
<pitti> right
<robert_ancell> nice
<robert_ancell> ok, really going now, bye
<pitti> ... bye
<rodrigo_> ah, cool, mterry rewrote the copyright file in DEP-5
 * rodrigo_ removes that from his TODO list
<rodrigo_> pitti, just for curiosity, why not a ~ubuntu-desktop branch for this one?
<huats> morning
<pitti> rodrigo_: we still have a lot of those, but the general direction is to use lp:ubuntu/<packagename> branches with full source, and using bzr merge-upstream
<rodrigo_> ok
<chrisccoulson> grrrrr @ gcc-4.5
<chrisccoulson> :(
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> what's up?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti - how are you?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the new toolchain is giving me lots of headaches
<pitti> quite fine, thanks! seems I got along well with the jetlag this time
<chrisccoulson> that's good, how was plumbers?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: interesting in various ways (I'll expand in my trip report, to be written..)
<didrocks> seb128: pushing *compiz* 0.9.2.1 in the ubuntu-desktop ppa as my natty pbuilder is quite broken :)
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128 and didrocks
<didrocks> I'll push everything to natty once I confirmed it builds fine there
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm not too bad thanks, how are you?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<pitti> I reset the WI tracker this morning, FYI
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team.html
<pitti> now we have a clean slate and trend line
<chrisccoulson> heh, it looks like i need more work items!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: 16 seems quite fine?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it looked smaller than some peoples ;)
<seb128> pitti, gnome-desktop3 is in new
<seb128> if you feel like doing some NEW source review
<pitti> looking
<pitti> seb128: 100_load_desired_settings.patch and 80_correct_rgba_use.patch aren't applied, is that on purpose?
<seb128> pitti, bug #660417
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 660417 in gnome-desktop (Ubuntu) "the load_desired_settings patch needs to be upstreamed and updated (affects: 1) (heat: 157)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660417
<pitti> ah, thanks
<seb128> the other one was commented in maverick already
<seb128> it's for gtk csd which we turned off again
<seb128> tseliot didn't reply yet though
<tseliot> seb128: sorry, I'm kind of busy with a deadline
<tseliot> seb128: it's definitely on my todo list to have a look at it
<pitti> seb128: accepted
<seb128> tseliot, no worry
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packagesselection-desktop-n-telepathy-indicator should be ready for your review, BTW
<seb128> pitti, right, and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-gwibber-enhancements
<seb128> I just want to launch a gnome-panel 2.32 build and I will review those
<pitti> I didn't see a followup from Ken there
<pitti> seb128: is that already against gtk3?
<seb128> no
<seb128> gnome-panel is going to be tricky
<seb128> it would require updating all applets as well
<pitti> ah
<seb128> but it's the version using dbus rather than bonobo
<pitti> so, the honor of the first gtk3 package is still pending :)
<seb128> well it has support for both
<seb128> yeah ;-)
<seb128> we will probably need lpi gtk3 before that
<pitti> current natty alternates are 15 MB oversized, and we didn't even start adding new stuff :(
<seb128> since most of our desktop software use lpi
<seb128> pitti, both specs approved
<seb128> kenvandine's ones
<pitti> cool
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop
<seb128> pitti, the gwibber one he didn't add a note but updated the whiteboard and pinged me on IRC
<seb128> so it was ok
<seb128> ok, only one left to review
<pitti> so we are missing one review from RIck, and 4 drafts
<seb128> rick slacker! ;-)
<seb128> pitti, well the drafts are from other teams
<pitti> no, from our
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-thunderbird-on-ubuntu
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-desktop-n-audio-apport-symptom
<seb128> I see only 2 from us
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-app-sandbox
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-set-default-paper-size-correctly
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-quickly
<pitti> so, 5 actually
<seb128> they don't show up on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop
<seb128> only 2 are there
<pitti> I copied them from that page..
<seb128> oh, they are New
<seb128> not Draft
<seb128> ignore me ;-)
<seb128> I sorted by status and was looking at the "Drafting" list
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, interesting
<chrisccoulson> llibmozjs has gone now
<chrisccoulson> *libmozjs
<chrisccoulson> not sure how gnome-shell will work
<seb128> interesting indeed
<chrisccoulson> it seems to be statically linked in to libxul now, which means that gnome-shell will have to load the entire mozilla runtime
<chrisccoulson> and libxul is huge
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ah, it's fixable. there is a build flag for building a shared mozjs again
<chrisccoulson> that's good, i could have been quite unpopular there ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> ppa builders are crowded?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - yeah, building mozilla daily builds ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: that's because of you if compiz can't do it today. Hope you will take all the blame of that :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<rodrigo_> ok, g-s-d 2.91.2 released, now packaging it
<kklimonda> can someone take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/atkmm1.6?
<kklimonda> it's a dependency of gtkmm 2.22.0
<rodrigo_> didrocks, about g-c-c's debian/patches/52_button_layout_from_theme.patch, what themes have that button order property?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: well, the defaults one? :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, my question is really if X-GNOME-Metatheme/ButtonLayout is in the theme standard?
<didrocks> ambiancec and radiance
<rodrigo_> didrocks, to see if I can push it upstream
<didrocks> rodrigo_: it's not in the theme standard, as the X-GNOMEâ¦ as I proposed that upsteam
<rodrigo_> didrocks, and, was it rejected?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: look at the header. But once again, this is part of more than 10 patches I posted to upstream and no reply on them
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you don't see the header and the link to the bug report?
<rodrigo_> yes, I do, looking
<didrocks> rodrigo_: urgh, I have 14 patches unreviewed now :/
<rodrigo_> didrocks, reviewing them, if they are for g-c-c
<didrocks> rodrigo_: no, it's the only one for g-c-c (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=describeuser.html&login=didrocks%40ubuntu.com)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, I don't see the bug about the addition to the theme standard, which one is it?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: there is no need for it, right? As there is a fallback for the theme like the GNOME default one that has not the settings. (that should be discuss as an optional key in xdg list, rather?)
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> so, only our themes have that key, right?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: so, no, I didn't opened that discussion. I was waiting for some reply on the patch first
<didrocks> rodrigo_: right
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I also found on the web some funny theme using that to make crazy layouts :)
<rodrigo_> oh, not themes from us?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, I guess it was on gnome-look, but not sure
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> cyphermox: hey, did you see I commented on e-d-s and evolution merge requests?
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you think you can fix those little gotchas quickly so that we can upload the whole evolution stack today?
<cyphermox> sure
<cyphermox> looking now
<didrocks> awesome :)
<nessita> hello everyone! packaging question: where can I read about building several binaries packages from a source package? and also, where can I read about how to package the graphical part of a project so it can be easily replaced by another gui implementation (kde for example)?
<didrocks> nessita: you should read "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Advanced Packaging" which has few lines but it's a start and then have a look at some packages which have multiples binaries (it's really easy)
<didrocks> nessita: take apport as an example I would say
<nessita> didrocks: I will, thanks! does apport provides several UIs?
<didrocks> nessita: yes, a gtk and kde one in addition to text mode, hence the fact I point that one to you :)
<didrocks> nessita: it's really easy, it's basically:
<didrocks> - provide several "binary package" stenzas in debian/control
<seb128> hey nessita
<seb128> how are you?
<didrocks> - then, the build system should detect and copy make install DESTDIR=debian/tmp (cdbs and debhelper should do that for you)
<didrocks> - finally add multiples debian/<package_bin_name>.install files to copy to the right deb
<nessita> seb128: pretty good! rocking the packaging world (or that world is rocking me :-P)
<nessita> didrocks: perfect, one last question. If I'm building a package for a python project, wgat's the deal with packages named <project-name> vs. packages names python-<project name>?
<nessita> didrocks: should I have both?
<didrocks> nessita: if the package is shipping a python libraryâ¦ like you can then ipython -c "import <library>", it should be named python-libraryname
<didrocks> nessita: otherwise, it's just project-name
<seiflotfy> is mvo on a vacation
<seiflotfy> ?
<didrocks> nessita: if you like to read: http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ :)
<nessita> didrocks: ok... what puzzles me is that, for example, ubunutone-client provide boths binaries (ubuntuone-client  that depends on python-ubuntuone-client)
<nessita> didrocks: I will! /me enqueues reading
<didrocks> nessita: so ubuntuone-client should contain the binaries like in /usr/bin and services if any. python-ubuntuone-client should only provide the python module that you include in the "binaries"
<nessita> didrocks: makes sense. I study now, may get back later with questions :-D
<didrocks> sure :)
<bilalakhtar> Is the meeting going on?
<didrocks> bilalakhtar: it's in 4 hours approximately
<seb128> seiflotfy, he is, he will be back tomorrow though
<cyphermox> didrocks, can you access the calendar component straight from evo in express mode?
<didrocks> cyphermox: no you can't, that's why it's different desktop files
<cyphermox> oh, never noticed that
<cyphermox> it's not in the unity launcher is it ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: not that one, it's shown in the application place nevertheless
<cyphermox> ah, cool, thanks ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: I confirm that the calendar for google integration is broken with your version
<cyphermox> really? it works here
<bilalakhtar> could someone please sponsor SRU debdiff attached to bug #636329 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636329 in gimp (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Gimp: Print preview and printout are blank pages (affects: 44) (dups: 5) (heat: 234)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636329
<cyphermox> didrocks, I just tested it... already created/connected though, and it updates. what kind of process did you try?
<didrocks> cyphermox: just stay on the calendar and look at tomorrow and the days after. I see no more meetings
<didrocks> trying to reload
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I don't know, I can see my meetings in day view and work week view
<didrocks> cyphermox: no, I don't see any appoitment
<cyphermox> weird
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you use the google integration as well?
<cyphermox> well, a couple of google calendars
<cyphermox> I have like, 7 open at the same time ;)
<didrocks> ahah, it seems it asks for my password
<didrocks> no, it does it everytime I try to get the list of accounts
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> didrocks, ok, let me try something
<didrocks> cyphermox: you removed the old binding, isn't it? :)
<cyphermox> do you mean the old gdata or something else?
<Riddell> seb128, didrocks: gnome-desktop3-data isn't ment to be empty is it?
<seb128> Riddell, it is
<seb128> Riddell, it has translations in debian but those are stripped for langpacks
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<Riddell> seb128: the description says it includes "(Pixmaps, .desktop files and internationalization files)"
<Riddell> seb128: I'll accept it and file a bug
<seb128> Riddell, thanks, the description needs updating
<seb128> the pixmap have been moved to another source
<seb128> the .desktop is built by the gtk2 version for now
<seb128> we can't built it from both version
<seb128> or they would conflict
<didrocks> cyphermox: the gdata-google as I wrote in the review
<cyphermox> didrocks, not uninstalled.
<jcastro> pitti: did you reset the WI tracker yet?
<pitti> jcastro: I did
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, I've fixed the calendar issue
<cyphermox> didrocks, what was it?
<didrocks> cyphermox: as told, there was with recurrent events and needed a backport from upstream in e-d-s
<didrocks> cyphermox: so not sure why it was working for you
<cyphermox> didrocks, yeah, really weird because I have quite a lot of them on google :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: so, I've pushed (and in the same time merge e-d-s), but keep fixing the two others things
<didrocks> in e-d-s and evolution
<cyphermox> yep
<didrocks> + discuss with upstream about the fail migration output
<Riddell> kenvandine: bug 666511 still needs a test case
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 666511 in tomboy (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 4 other projects) "Note data loss with Tomboy sync to Ubuntu One, for notes created in Gnote (affects: 1) (heat: 224)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666511
<didrocks> will fix the segfault later
 * didrocks is happy, full calendar again :)
<kenvandine> Riddell, let me look
<cyphermox> didrocks, I can't believe I looked at the commits for e-d-s and never noticed that one. but the reason it works for me is that I never use appointments that recur forever. I pretty much always set a limit
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, hence the fact you miss that :)
<cyphermox> yep
<kenvandine> Riddell, test case posted
<seb128> hey mterry
<mterry> seb128, hello!
<seb128> mterry, how are you?
<seb128> mterry, what are you working on?
<mterry> seb128, right now, some quickly merge reviews
<mterry> seb128, I could do something else while I'm doing these
<seb128> mterry, well, I've non trivial tasks if you have time this week
<seb128> or next week
<seb128> mterry, we need a launchpad-integration gtk3 build
<mterry> seb128, right, saw the email.  I could work on that.  Is this the first dual library build?  (i.e. is there prior gtk2/3 art I can steal?)
<seb128> mterry, I don't think we have one yet no
<seb128> well we need to work on the upstream code then packaging
 * mterry blazes a trail
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on how to do it
<mterry> seb128, sure, if they don't yet have a gtk3 build (which I'm assuming they don't)
<seb128> we can probably just port it to gtk3 and upload as a new source
<mterry> seb128, you think a new source?
<seb128> whatever is easier
<mterry> I thought we had talked about two-binary builds
<seb128> well maybe it's easier to build both from the source
<seb128> it's an ubuntu specific source anyway
<seb128> so don't bother with configure flag, maybe just make it build the 2 versions
<seb128> one build doing gtk2 and gtk3 binaries or one build for each flavor, both work
<mterry> sure
<seb128> mterry, we also need somebody to port indicator-applet to dbus
<seb128> not sure if you are interested
<mterry> seb128, you mean gdbus?
<seb128> I just uploaded gnome-panel 2.32
<seb128> mterry, no, they changed the applet to panel protocol
<seb128> it uses to be bonobo
<mterry> oh oh right
<seb128> used
<seb128> I will do gnome-applets
<mterry> I could look into that too, sure
<seb128> we can almost get ride of libbonoboui
 * mterry adds that to TODO for this week
<seb128> but we need to port indicator-applet
<seb128> mterry, I will assign the bugs for each to you
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> tedg, ^
<tedg> Wow, is indicator-applet last already?
 * tedg thought he had a little while
<seb128> tedg, well we just use gnome-panel and gnome-applets in the default installation
<seb128> tedg, gnome-dictionary will be dropped from the default selection since it's buggy
<seb128> tedg, I updated gdm to drop fusa since upstream will do it in GNOME3 and we use indicator-session
<bilalakhtar> seb128: but that's due to dict.org being down!
<czajkowski> kenvandine: you working your gwibber magic I see :)
<seb128> bilalakhtar, still it only works for english and the ui has issues
<bilalakhtar> ah, its up again
<tedg> seb128, Great!  Perhaps you should take a vacation :)
<seb128> tedg, why? ;-)
<seb128> tedg, thursday is an holiday and I've friday off :-)
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine: Could you please sponsor the SRU debdiff attached to bug #636329?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 636329 in gimp (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Gimp: Print preview and printout are blank pages (affects: 44) (dups: 5) (heat: 234)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636329
<tedg> seb128, \o/ time to catch up for me!
<seb128> lol
<seb128> tedg, you don't have lot of catching up, mterry said he would do the indicator-applet port to dbus
<tedg> Cool, thanks mterry!
<seb128> tedg, sorry if that was no clear from the ping, that was just to let you know we would give you a patch for that
<seb128> tedg, btw will you roll tarballs for natty in the next week?
<rodrigo_> hmm, is XSBC-Original-Maintainer a wrong field in debian/control?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, why
<seb128> ?
<rodrigo_> dpkg-deb: warning: 'debian/gir1.0-rest-0.7/DEBIAN/control' contains user-defined field 'Original-Maintainer'
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you use 'Original-Maintainer' or XSBC-Original-Maintainer?
<rodrigo_> XSBC-Original-Maintainer: Ying-Chun Liu (PaulLiu) <paulliu@debian.org>
<seb128> rodrigo_, lintian -i?
<kenvandine> bilalakhtar, not right now... busy atm
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine: no problem, thanks, will see some other day
<kenvandine> thx
<tedg> seb128, Yeah, I was thinking so.  I haven't had a chance to integrate mterry's other patches into trunk yet.  But my plan is to handle the merge request backlog first.
<seb128> bilalakhtar, it's in the sponsoring queue, no need to ping people for things waiting
<seb128> bilalakhtar, if we don't do it that's because we are busy and sru are frozen still
<bilalakhtar> seb128: I never got main uploads sponsored without poking people
<seb128> that's because you don't wait enough
<bilalakhtar> And, I have a main upload in the queue for the last 4 months
<bilalakhtar> seb128: 4 months is not enough? :(
<bilalakhtar> okay, sorry
<seb128> well the desktop ones are handling in a reasonable timeline
<seb128> handled
<seb128> those are probably on components nobody wants to touch
<seb128> or has interest in
<seb128> tedg, right, that's why I'm asking, would be nice to get some of the gsettings, gtk3 cleaning in natty
<komputes> Is it possible to run Ubuntu if the root filesystem is mounted in read only mode. I've tried this by editing fstab to mount / ro, but end up in a text console.
<chrisccoulson> komputes, if you have things like /tmp and /var on it, then probably not
<komputes> chrisccoulson: any way I can get those to write to ram instead of disk?
<chrisccoulson> you can with /tmp but you definately don't want to do that with /var
<rodrigo_> can I get reviews on these 2 branches please:
<rodrigo_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/librest and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+junk/libsocialweb
<rodrigo_> it looks like a hack to me what I did with the missing autogen.sh in both
<pitti> rodrigo_: "missing"? autogen.sh is usually only used in upstream VCS, not in proper "make dist" tarballs
<pitti> dist tarballs already have the autoconfiscation
<rodrigo_> pitti, right, but it complained about a missing configure
<rodrigo_> that's why I think it's a hack, but not sure how to solve it
<pitti> rodrigo_: sounds like a broken upstream tarball to me?
<rodrigo_> it had the configure script indeed
<pitti> 20
<pitti> sh ./autogen.sh $(DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
<pitti> 21
<pitti> dh_auto_configure -- $(DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
<pitti> why both?
<pitti> the latter should suffice
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, you have a patch which changes configure.ac
<pitti> ah, sorry, auto_configure != autoreconf
<rodrigo_> oh
<rodrigo_> so, dh_autoreconf should solve it?
<pitti> yep
 * rodrigo_ tries
<pitti> instead of the patch to add autogen.sh and running that
<pitti> by and large this just needs an "autoreconf" call
<pitti> I guess/hope that's what dh_autoreconf does (I never used it yet)
<rodrigo_> dh_autoreconf: --enable-gtk-doc failed to to execute: No such file or directory
<rodrigo_> dh_autoreconf -- --enable-gtk-doc
<pitti> I don't think that autoreconf configures
<pitti> it just updates configure
<pitti> i. e. it doesn't expect configure arguments
<pitti> dh_autoreconf
<pitti> dh_auto_configure -- $(DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<pitti> this should do
<rodrigo_> now seems to work
<pitti> rodrigo_: btw, dh_quilt_patch isn't necessary with "3.0 (quilt)" sources
<pitti> (nor a quilt build dep)
<pitti> dpkg-source applies patches already
<rodrigo_> pitti, before autoreconf?
<rodrigo_> I had to add it to get the autogen.sh file
<rodrigo_> hmm automake: cannot open < gtk-doc.make: No such file or directory
<rodrigo_> seems the upstream tarball is wrong indeed
<kklimonda> btw packaging, can some take a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/atkmm1.6 ? It's a direct dependency of gtkmm 2.22.0
<seb128> kklimonda, rodrigo_: could you open sponsoring bugs for those
<seb128> seems everybody is busy right now but we will work on it from the queue
<kklimonda> seb128: sure
<seb128> just open a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'll do as soon as I remove the autogen.sh hack
<seb128> kklimonda, thanks
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> you're welcome :)
<kklimonda> seb128: atkmm1.6 is a new package, should I still subscribe sponsors?
<kklimonda> actually, I just will subscribe as I have to run
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, I've filed the bugs anyway, so will keep working on fixing the hack
<seb128> rodrigo_, thank you
<dobey> hyperair: ping
<nessita> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> nessita: yes?
<nessita> didrocks: I see that apport sets python modules to install to usr/lib/python*/*-packages/apport/* but u1client uses debian/tmp/usr/share/pyshared/ubuntuone/
<nessita> didrocks: can you clarify the distinction between those two?
<didrocks> nessita: pyshared/<module> are for modules, like when you want to * python -c "import <module>"
<didrocks> nessita: then, there are some symlink magic to link to usr/lib/python*
<didrocks> nessita: let me show you an example
<nessita> didrocks: I understand that, thanks. Does that mean that python-apport.install needs to point yo pyshared?
<nessita> to*
<nessita> instead to directly install to usr/lib/python*/*-packages/apport/* ?
<didrocks> I trust pitti on that to have done the right thing :)
<didrocks> nessita: you have some modules in /usr/share/pyshared/apport
<pitti> didrocks: python-apport does install to /usr/share/pyshared/
<didrocks> which sounds good
<pitti> didrocks: the ones in /usr/lib/python2.X are symlinks from dh_py*
<kenvandine> our meetings is in 35m right?
 * kenvandine wished google calendar did UTC times
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I don't know what necessita is referring to then, necessita?
<nessita> pitti: how does apport installs on pyshared? python-apport.install lists usr/lib/python*/*-packages/apport/* and I\'m not sure I understand that
<didrocks> nessita: ls -l /usr/share/pyshared/apport/
<didrocks> and ls -l /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/
<mterry> seb128, what the heck with the "gcc: not found" errors for gnome-panel.  Is natty busted right now?
<didrocks> the symlink are generated
<seb128> mterry, where?
<pitti> nessita: upstream modules install to /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ or /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages by default
<mterry> seb128, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58895346/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.gnome-panel_1%3A2.32.0.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> mterry, no, false warning
<seb128> read after
<pitti> nessita: python-central then takes care of moving them to pyshared, adding the symlinks, etc.
<seb128> E: Unable to locate package gir1.0-gconf-2.0
<seb128> E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'gir1.0-gconf-2.0'
<seb128> mterry, ^
<nessita> didrocks: I do have apport modules in pyshared and synlinks in usr/lib, I was wondering how that happen if the .install file say otherwise
<nessita> pitti: ah! I understand now
<pitti> nessita: in the general case, you should call the upstream setup.py with --no-compile --install-layout=deb
<pitti> nessita: and then call dh_python2 or dh_pycentral or whatever
<pitti> and these will DTRT
<seb128> mterry, the binary is in universe, I will promote it now
<mterry> seb128, ah, I see.  Whoops
<nessita> pitti, didrocks: perfect, crystal clear. Thanks!
<seb128> mterry, will retry the build but promotion and retry will take a bit
<mterry> seb128, sure
<seb128> mterry, you should probably do a local build if you need it
<dobey> nessita: hmm
<nessita> dobey: ?
<dobey> nessita: reading backlog, and i'm not quite sure what your confusion was
<seb128> mterry, did you figure how to use gi with gtk3 when  gtk2 is installed btw?
<nessita> dobey: an .install file pointed to pyshared and the other to usr/lib/python.
<dobey> nessita: right. ubuntuone-client has some special stuff in configure.ac and the Makefile.am for installing the python module bits, to make maintaining the project easier.
<nessita> dobey: ahahahaha you will not convince me of using autotools!
<nessita> dobey: :-)
<mterry> seb128, I never got a clear answer on which Gtk is used by default, how to check which is being used, or how to specify one to be used, no
<dobey> nessita: we used to use both autotools and distutils in u1-client. it was not fun.
<kenvandine> whew... MASSIVE gwibber change uploaded :)
<kenvandine> to natty that is
<davmor2> \o/
<icek> hi, my ubuntu 10.04 is using 19 gbs of my 2gbs or ram, over 90%, and my computer is SOO slow, but in the monitor tool I cannot see any process using more than like 40 mbs, whats going on@@@
<icek> ???
<icek> and why does adobe flash take soooo many resources?
<pitti> team meeting is in 12 mins, right?
<pitti> jasoncwarner, seb128 ^
<seb128> pitti, no, 11
<jasoncwarner> seb128: :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> I already saw that pitti was late in Florida :)
<didrocks> I understand now!
<jasoncwarner> btw...not a fan of google calendar. I still have it on my calendar as in 1 hour
<pitti> seems my Evo calendar still shows it as in 1:10 (still running on European summertime?)
 * jasoncwarner shakes fist at google calendar
<didrocks> pitti: does it reflect your jetlag?
<chrisccoulson> my evo calendar shows it as the correct time
 * pitti takes a huge big hammer and beats Earth into a flat shape again
<pitti> ... as it should have been all the time!!!11!
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: same here, I didn't get daylight saving workingâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: the one minute? yes :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - you meant that the earth *isn't* flat?
<rodrigo_> yes, evo does the correct thing
<chrisccoulson> :)
 * didrocks thinks that the conversation has exceeded the "nonsense" part already :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<pitti> chrisccoulson: but if it was it would be so much easier
<pitti> so it seems nobody sent a meeting reminder this time
<pitti> sorry, forgot about it
<dobey> just only use UTC for everything
<dobey> change all your clocks to be in UTC
<pitti> didrocks: can you please ping me when you are done with the wiki?
<jcastro> didrocks: in order for QA to make a list of graphs for unity bugs I need a list of package names for all of "unity", how can I find that out?
<kenvandine> pitti, for the work item tracker, you hard code the lp team to associate with blueprints right?
<kenvandine> pitti, i had the ubuntuone team create a new lp team that only has real team members as members... so the work item tracker will be more effective
<didrocks> pitti: ping
<kenvandine> pitti, can you change their's to ubuntuone-team?
<didrocks> well, once wikimoinsmoins will have finished with loadingâ¦
<didrocks> jcastro: you mean, the unity task or just those from unity source?
<didrocks> s/task/stak
<didrocks> stack*
<jcastro> didrocks: I'd like to have bug graphs for the stack
<pitti> didrocks: cheers, added mine
<jcastro> didrocks: like for xorg for example: http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/
<jcastro> I figure have one called "unity" with the dash bits, compiz, the launcher, etc.
<didrocks> jcastro: ok, will get that to you
<pitti> kenvandine: I hardcode a team list, but not the assignment; that is determined by the members of each team
<didrocks> jcastro: you need binary or source package?
<pitti> kenvandine: you can do the change as well, but I'm doing it for you now
<kenvandine> pitti, right... great
<kenvandine> cool, didn't want to break anything :)
<pitti> kenvandine: done (see platform@lillypilly:~/work-items-tracker/config/natty.cfg)
<kenvandine> this will make workitem tracking actually sane for u1
<jcastro> didrocks: source
<jasoncwarner> Ok Everyone...16:30 UTC (no matter what Google calendar tells me). ready to start the desktop meeting?
<kenvandine> yup!
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-09
<didrocks> yes o/
<tremolux> heyo
<seb128> hey
<rodrigo_> me
<cyphermox> hey
<pitti> \o
<jasoncwarner> Agenda
<jasoncwarner>     * Outstanding actions from last meeting
<jasoncwarner>     * Partner Update
<jasoncwarner>     * Kubuntu Update
<jasoncwarner>     * Release Bugs/Release Status
<jasoncwarner>     * Review activity reports
<jasoncwarner>     * Any other business
<jasoncwarner> starting w/ outstanding actions from last meeting, anyone have anything they would like to talk about?
<jasoncwarner> everyone had one big action:
<jasoncwarner> getting specs written and approved! :)
<pitti> I had an action to set up WI tracker for Kubuntu specs
<jasoncwarner> pitti had one additional: pitti setup WI tracker for Kubuntu
<pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/kubuntu-dev.html
<pitti> (milestone views also available, as usual)
<pitti> sorry, s/pitti/platform/
 * pitti curses history in ffox
<jasoncwarner> so, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/kubuntu-dev.html ?
<pitti> *nod*
<jasoncwarner> awesome, thanks!
<pitti> jasoncwarner: as for specs, can I have a separate topic for that?
<jasoncwarner> yup!
<jasoncwarner> would you like to go now or after everything else?
<pitti> might as well now
<jasoncwarner> great...
<pitti> the other topics should be quick/nonexistant
<jasoncwarner> all yours ;)
<pitti> so, first, congrats everyone, we made great progress here
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+specs?searchtext=desktop
<pitti> the large majority is approved now
<pitti> rickspencer3 needs to approve https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-opportunistic-developer-manual
<pitti>  (sort by reverse "design" is best)
<rickspencer3> done
<pitti> and we have 5 which are still drafting
<pitti> rickspencer3: that must have been utterly thorough :)
<pitti> I'd like to run through them quickly
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-set-default-paper-size-correctly
<pitti> tkamppeter: ^
<pitti> this seems like a very complex problem, and is a corner case at the same time IMHO
<pitti> tkamppeter: would you like to work on this during natty, or should we postpone this to olympic opossum?
<rodrigo_> doesn't the 'Ã±' come after Natty??? :)
<pitti> this requires some thorough use cases first, analysis of what currently happens, discussions with upstream etc.
<rickspencer3> pitti, I was in the session ;)
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-app-sandbox
<pitti> that's Allison's, and she still has time until the "official" blueprint deadline
<pitti> so I'll ignore this for now
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-desktop-n-audio-apport-symptom is diwic's
<pitti> also not strictly our team, I'll ping diwic about it
<pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-thunderbird-on-ubuntu
<pitti> this is a bit inconsistent
<pitti> "Accepted for natty" but "deferred"
<pitti> chrisccoulson: should this rather be un-targetted for natty?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that one should be untargetted. i don't think there are any WI's there are there?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, and status is still new
<chrisccoulson> (i think i'm tracking all my WI in other blueprints)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, done
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<pitti> cool, so except for the papersize one we are in shape
<pitti> I reset the WI tracker today, so today is day #1 for trend line and counting
 * pitti ^5s team, let's have at it!
<pitti> jasoncwarner: I'm done, here's the mike back
<jasoncwarner> thanks, pitti
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] follow up with tkamppeter about paper size bp
<jasoncwarner> I can take that one, pitti
<pitti> thanks
<jasoncwarner> back to the agenda
<jasoncwarner> Partner update?
<kenvandine> nothing to report on the partner update, besides the team fix for U1 work items, so that will help a lot!
<jasoncwarner> Ok...
<jasoncwarner> Kubuntu update?
<pitti> kenvandine: nothing new on DX as well? compiz etc.?
<didrocks> pitti: this is in the unity update
<kenvandine> what didrocks said :)
<pitti> ah, 'k
<kenvandine> next week we'll have more
<pitti> new crack!!!
<jasoncwarner> ok, we'll all be looking forward to next week! :) Unity update!
<jasoncwarner> Riddell: Kubuntu update? Anything you would like to note?
<Riddell> hi
<Riddell>  * 4.5.3 uploaded and built
<Riddell>  * trouble on arm due to removal of CXXFLAGS += -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb by default
<Riddell> doko will investigate the arm issue tomorrow
<pitti> oh, why did we drop thumb again?
<Riddell> because upstream didn't like it I believe
<pitti> didn't we rebuild everything for it in lucid (or was it maverick?)
<pitti> ah
<Riddell> merges all done
<Riddell> need to make sure all our deltas go upstream
<Riddell> then we're all ready to get into feature mode!
<jasoncwarner> :)
<jasoncwarner> Awesome.
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] doko to investigate arm issue for kubuntu
<jasoncwarner> Anything else?
<jasoncwarner> If not, we'll move onto release bugs/release status.
<jasoncwarner> which I'm assuming is light ;)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: isn't the turn of Unity update? :) (the Agenda has never been upated to include Unity/USC update I'm afraid, will do it)
<pitti> didrocks: can you please update the Template?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: look at the wiki page, below agenda
<pitti> didrocks: while you are at it, perhaps change the chair from Rick to Jason :)
<didrocks> pitti: will do that too
<jasoncwarner> UNITY/USC  it is!
<didrocks> so Unityâ¦
<didrocks> dx team is working hard to get a rocking unity on compiz!
 * pitti remembers TheMuso having lots of fun with that last week
<didrocks> compiz 0.9.2.1 is uploaded today in natty as a first step to unity compiz. We still need some patches to compiz to be ready for landing unity into natty. Will come soonâ¦ very soon :)
 * rodrigo_ is not on the template, feels out :(
<didrocks> your dear compiz will be partially broken (no pager in gnome-panel applet real support) and no integration in gnome-control-center (will show "no effect"), also the edge doesn't react. Known issues, will be fixed soon or post alpha1 for some parts
<didrocks> The migration of data/settings from older compiz 0.8 to newer compiz (0.9+) is planned upstream for alpha2
<pitti> didrocks: does that need any magic for keeping user conf during upgrade? or did that not change?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: will add you too
<rodrigo_> didrocks, merci
<didrocks> pitti: no magic right now, just dropped
<didrocks> pitti: not removed, but the folder name isn't the same
<pitti> didrocks: ah, you preempted me
<didrocks> I was sure you were about to react :)
<didrocks> pitti: so, there are two kind of magic needed:
<pitti> didrocks: should we make a backup of our current conf, so that we can reinstall it for later upgrade testing?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, btw, there's no more appearance applet/panel in g-c-c 3
<didrocks> 1. upgrade data from compiz 0.8 to 0.9
<didrocks> 2. handling conflicting plugins with adding unity by default
<rodrigo_> didrocks, so the stuff for setting up compiz effects needs to be thought
<didrocks> pitti: no, you will still have your old data in ~/.compiz and ~/.config/compiz
<didrocks> pitti: the new is reading at compiz-1
<pitti> ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, thanks for the heads up
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I won't spent time on that then
<seb128> we didn't decide if we would take g-c-c 3 this cycle
<seb128> especially due to such questions
<kenvandine> yeah, but i am very interested in the ideas for a web accounts interface :)
<didrocks> ok, will put the WI for later, it just helps to focus on more urgent things
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, g-s-d and g-c-c packages coming soon, but no web accounts yet
<seb128> kenvandine, right, we will need to check with the u1 about that though
<seb128> just to be clear coming to a ppa, not natty
<rodrigo_> yeah, right
<kenvandine> yeah
<pitti> I'll package the user admin portion of gcc 3.0, though
<pitti> (needed as replacement for gnome-system-tools)
 * pitti lets his Perl axe blink for a bit
<rodrigo_> pitti, it needs the whole g-c-c 3
<pitti> rodrigo_: source yes, but I take it the user admin part can be split into a separate binary package
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, that was a standalone component before
<pitti> I did that already for the network proxy and something else
<rodrigo_> yeah, but now it's obsolete, and part of g-c-c
<pitti> anyway, details
<seb128> rodrigo_, well if we don't take the new g-c-c we will investigate taking the old source for this cycle
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> didrocks: you're done?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm done, yes
<tremolux> ok, so USC update
<tremolux> * Work items specified for the Software Center UI enhancements blueprint
<tremolux>  * Focus on Unity integration, improvements to software purchase experience, performance and usability
<tremolux> * Remaining work items lists for Software Center-related blueprints will be completed this week (after mvo returns from holiday)
<tremolux> * mpt has done a review of the current ratings and reviews UI branch and provided detailed feedback
<tremolux> any questions?
<jasoncwarner> If not more questions, I have some actions :)
 * tremolux drums on desk, whistles
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] update wiki w/ updated agenda and add rodrigo
<jasoncwarner> :)
<jasoncwarner> Anything else from the above?
<rodrigo_> :)
<jasoncwarner> And, anything else missing from the agenda we wanted to talk about?
<pitti> not from me
<didrocks> jasoncwarner: done btw (update wiki)
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hum, did anybody pinged pedro to know if he has anything for us?
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<pedro_> hello!
<seb128> pedro_, not sure if you want to start doing a weekly status that early in the cycle?
<pitti> jasoncwarner: wrt. release status/bugs, I didn't start tracking them yet; we just finished blueprints and don't have release meetings yet
<pitti> jasoncwarner: I'll prepare an initial release status page by next week
<seb128> release bugs we let pedro_ do a qa status update usually if he has anything for us
<pedro_> seb128, right, it's a bit early, but i can get some stats for bugs to SRU,etc for next week
<jasoncwarner> [ACTION] pitti: prepare an initial release status page
<seb128> pedro_, would be nice
<seb128> pedro_, thanks ;-)
<pedro_> there's only one bug i've scalated to you guys
<pedro_> already assigned to canonical-desktop-team
<seb128> pedro_, the video out key one?
<seb128> I think pitti was on it
<pedro_> yes, that one
<pitti> is that the Super+P thing?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pedro_> exactly that one pitti
<pitti> no time yet, but I can have a look
<seb128> seems it's basically applying the bugzilla patch
<pedro_> awesome, i'll change the assigned then so we move it from c-d-t
<pitti> pedro_: right, feel free to assign to me
<pedro_> for the record: bug 539477
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 539477 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 7 other projects) "Video out hot key sends super + p + return on many upcoming Dell & HP systems (affects: 18) (dups: 2) (heat: 128)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/539477
<pedro_> pitti, already assigned , thank you
 * pitti shakes fist towards broken BIOSes
<jasoncwarner> Anything else to discuss? We can move on to 'Any other business' if nothing...
<jasoncwarner> so, any other business? :)
<jasoncwarner> 3
<jasoncwarner> 2
<jasoncwarner> 1.5
<jasoncwarner> 1
<jasoncwarner> done?
<jasoncwarner> done.
<pitti> thanks everyone
<rodrigo_> hmm, do we need to add our status reports to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-09 ?
<tremolux> thanks desktop team peoples
<didrocks> thanks everyone :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: please
<jasoncwarner> [END MEETING]
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> thanks
<jasoncwarner> Awesome, thanks everyone.
<kenvandine> pitti, gwibber has some stuff in binNEW
<seb128> rodrigo_, I've assigned some tasks to you
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<kenvandine> the service plugins have been split into separate packages, finally!
<rodrigo_> seb128, where?
<seb128> rodrigo_, bug #673110
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673110 in gnome-applets (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "should port the python applets to gi (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673110
<seb128> bug #673109
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673109 in gnome-applets (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "the null applet should be ported to the new library (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673109
<seb128> rodrigo_, basically is "get ride of remaining bonobo use in gnome-applets"
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, it should be easy, the null applet is small and invest porting to gi should be ok to do
<tkamppeter> pitti, jasoncwarner, sorry, I have missed it, have forgotten DST change.
<seb128> rodrigo_, no hurry, but having it done by end of next week would be nice if you can
<hyperair> dobey: pong
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<tkamppeter> pitti, jasoncwarner, the paper size issue we should fix in Natty.
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks ;-)
<pitti> tkamppeter: looking at the current workload status, "we" would be "you", I'm afraid
<pitti> tkamppeter: but this requires a fair bit of research first
<tkamppeter> pitti, in one point I have started by fixing s-c-p to actually follow /etc/papersize when creating a queue.
<kklimonda> pitti: transmission dev has asked if we can update it to 2.05 in maverick - it's not released yet but is at the point when there are enough bug fixes to justify a new point release. I took a look at the diff and all fixes are all SRUable, at least two of them make sense to get into maverick. Can I just assume that as long as they all qualify for SRU we can just make an update? We did for 1.04
<kklimonda> but it was LTS and in the past it wasn't that easy to get micro releases (other than gnome) into non-SRU stable releases.
<pitti> kklimonda: yes, that sounds fine
<tkamppeter> pitti, other step I will do is adding a widget to the server settings of s-c-p to set /etc/papersize.
<pitti> kklimonda: we don't care about the version number or where the fix comes from for SRU; just about what the nature of the change is
<pitti> tkamppeter: that'll be debian/ubuntu specific then
<tkamppeter> pitti, does Fedora not use /etc/papersize?
<pitti> libpaper and /etc/papersize are a Debianism, I think
<tkamppeter> pitti, I can make the widget only showing if there ia /etc/papersize or libpaper.
<pitti> ah, yes
<fta> was epiphany installed by default in ubuntu in the past?
<seb128> fta, I don't think so
<seb128> why?
<seb128> mterry, was there any reason you didn't upload canberra to natty?
<fta> seb128, i'm wordering why it's installed by ~10% of our users
<mterry> seb128, because I thought it was PPA-bound.  I can upload
<fta> but barely used at all
<fta> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/popcon-20101109-pct.png
<seb128> mterry, ppa-bound?
<seb128> fta, weird, dunno, they maybe try it since it's the GNOME browser
<seb128> mterry, in any case feel free to upload if you think it's ready
<mterry> seb128, I thought it was going to bake in PPA before uploading
<mterry> seb128, but sure, it can go to natty
<seb128> well seems at this point we just can go to natty and deal with bugs
<fta> and it doesn't match the other less popular browsers: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/popcon-20101109-pct2.png
<mterry> seb128, agreed.  we doing a meeting today, right?
<seb128> mterry, it was one hour ago
<seb128> mterry, seems you got hit by dst ;-)
<mterry> seb128, !  for the love of!
<mterry> yar
 * mterry reads backlog
<fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/528798/
<seb128> jasoncwarner, pitti: would be nice to highlight all team members at start of the meeting
<jasoncwarner> seb128: ack and agree
<tkamppeter> pitti, the widget in s-c-p could also change system settings of locale, but for this i would need help of locale guys.
<didrocks> seb128: argh, we worked on gnome-panel on the same time (wasn't doing the update but autoreconf + my patch update)
<didrocks> seb128: you didn't get DSO linking issues?
<pitti> tkamppeter: it shouldn't really
<pitti> tkamppeter: if we set LC_PAPER, then it should be done in the installer, together with a few other categories
<seb128> didrocks, which ones? I guess the codebase changed quite a bunch in the port to dbus
<didrocks> seb128: no xrandr flag
<seb128> didrocks, I'm still half not upgraded to natty so my gcc might just not have the dso optimisation
<seb128> didrocks, feel free to upload your fix and patch update ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'm bzr pull --overwrite there :)
<didrocks> seb128: will tell you if it FTBFS
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<mterry> pitti, that super+p video out bug, did upstream somehow handle the extra Return that Dell BIOSes send?  Last time I heard they refused to do that
<pitti> mterry: I think the extra return key was fixed in the BIOS; no way to work around that
<mterry> pitti, this was not a bug in the BIOS, but a design spec of Dell's.  it will not be fixed in BIOS, AFAIK, for Dell systems
<pitti> it was a total misunderstanding
<mterry> pitti, on Dell's part?  OK.  If you have newer info, that's good.
<pitti> mterry: no, I mean Dell said "the hotkey should do the same as Super+P"
<pitti> but that was meant to be "send a hotkey which Windows will treat similar as super+p", not "actually send the identical scan code as super+p"
<pitti> mterry: ISTR that Tony said that the Enter was of no concern
<mterry> pitti, right, but you believe that the BIOS manufacturers are fixing it?  That's good, I just hadn't heard that
<mterry> cool
<mterry> yay for fixing things!
<pitti> mterry: I don't know what the bios guys are doing; I was just told that the Enter bit was a non-issue nwo
<mterry> k
<dobey> hyperair: hey. i see you are the creator of banshee-community-extensions on lp; was wondering if you could perhaps set up the code import to pull from git://gitorious.org/banshee-community-extensions/banshee-community-extensions.git for it
<hyperair> why don't you just use git? =)
<seb128> didrocks, mterry
<seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-gnome3
<seb128> you might want to subscribe to the blueprint
<seb128> the changes are probably useful infos for people who will work on the GNOME3 transitions
<seb128> I've just added some comments about items to consider if we want to take the new g-c-c for example
<seb128> also seeing who has work items assigned might avoid duplicating work
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, I've add a "- needs to check with the u1 tem if the web account dialog doesn't create conflict with their work" on this spec, can you do that?
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> kenvandine, no hurry but just at some point just check if they will want to integrate with it
<seb128> or have concerns with what upstream is doing
<kenvandine> yeah... cool
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<kenvandine> will do
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^ as well I guess
<dobey> hyperair: if that's your answer, why is there a project entry on launchpad at all?
<hyperair> dobey: for bugs.
<seb128> dobey, you need to register projects to be able to add upstream watches to the upstream bug tracker or to push packaging work etc
<hyperair> dobey: the thing is, if we mirror the code down, and you start coding up a storm in bzr, nobody's going to stare at your branches and merge them.
<hyperair> dobey: because the whole lot of us prefer git.
<dobey> seb128: right, but i thought that was automated (ie, all the gnome stuff is automated/imported/etc.)
<dobey> hyperair: i don't care if nobody looks at my branches in bzr. i want to develop with bzr. when it's ready to merge i can export to gitorious or something.
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, the gnome-panel error is still there, fixed, pushed and opened upstream
<didrocks> seb128: subscribing to the blueprint as well
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<hyperair> dobey: can you? i'm not sure what you would use to do that, aside from posting up a bunch of patches onto the bugzilla, for example.
<didrocks> seb128: yw :)
<dobey> hyperair: bzr-git? or merge the changes into a clone, commit, and push to gitorious. it's not a hard problem.
<dobey> what /is/ hard, is git.
<hyperair> dobey: and even if you don't expect us to come stare at the bzr branches, there's always the likelihood that someone starts posing the question: if you're not going to look at my branches and merge them, why do you even mirror the code on launchpad?
<hyperair> dobey: i think bzr is harder than git, but that's just me =)
<hyperair> let's not get into a VCS war here, though.
<chris|> oh, please, lets :)
<hyperair> dobey: if you're willing to maintain all the potential bzr branches that turn up on bce in launchpad, then yeah sure
<dobey> what does that even mean?
<dobey> and why are you so adament against using a common practice in lp for upstream projects? if the project had been created like all the gnome ones, it would already be getting mirrored anyway, and we wouldn't be having this discussion
<hyperair> dobey: because eventhough i'm an ubuntu developer, i have no interest in bzr, or launchpad code hosting until it supports git.
<hyperair> dobey: i'm adamant against setting up something i can't/am not willing to maintain.
 * cyphermox --> lunch, bbl
<hyperair> dobey: if you want to maintain it, sure, i'll add you to the team or something and let you handle it.
<hyperair> but *i* will not maintain it.
<dobey> maintain what?
<dobey> you seem to insist on implying there is some sort of burden, which does not exist.
 * popey hugs kenvandine 
<hyperair> dobey: if there's no burden, then you'll take care of configuring the code hosting (which should be a one time thing) and taking care of looking into merging any potential b-c-e bzr branches that might pop up, yes?
<kenvandine> popey, :)
<hyperair> dobey: if the answer is no, then forget it. if yes, i'll add you to the team, so please handle it.
<dobey> i can't merge any b-c-e bzr branches that might pop up.
<hyperair> dobey: you might want to take this to #banshee on irc.gnome.org where there might be someone who favours bzr and is on launchpad who will be willing.
<dobey> and even if i could, i'm sure you wouldn't want me to do it, because git would break when i tried to use it.
<dobey> hyperair: no, you seem to be misunderstanding my request as one to move the primary code to bzr. and it is not.
<hyperair> and there we go. you've just highlighted a problem.
<hyperair> dobey: i'm not misunderstanding any request.
<hyperair> don't put words into my head.
<dobey> i haven't hilighted any problem
<dobey> if it was a problem, we'd be having this discussion at UDS five times over already, because all of GNOME would be experiencing it.
 * hyperair shrugs.
<hyperair> things would be so much easier if launchpad would just adopt git.
<dobey> no, they wouldn't. and this isn't the place for another dumb vcs argument
<hyperair> they would. this argument wouldn't have started.
<dobey> whatever.
<hyperair> so anyway, this goes two ways. i add you to the team, you handle any bzr thing that pops up, or i'm not doing anything.
<hyperair> or you find someone else to do it
<hyperair> so that's three ways
<hyperair> pick one.
<dobey> i am not taking over maintainership of your project just so there can be a vcs import of the code in lp
<hyperair> i didn't ask you to take over maintainership, and b-c-e isn't my project.
<hyperair> i just created it on launchpad because i needed to file upstream bugs. period.
<hyperair> if you want to handle the code.lp.net side of things, fine, but i don't want anything to do with it.
<pitti> good night everyone
<didrocks> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm already subscribed to that blueprint
<rodrigo_> dobey, hyperair: you don't need a maintainer to request a vcs-import
<rodrigo_> dobey, just request the importing, lp can import from git
<dobey> rodrigo_: you need some form of code support enabled on lp
<dobey> rodrigo_: i can't request the import, because there is no ui to allow me to, because the project is not configured to allow it
<seb128> rodrigo_, hum?
<seb128> rodrigo_, oh, I was just pointing the webaccount and how it impacts u1 to you
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah
<seb128> you probably know the u1 team better than most of us and know with who to check
<rodrigo_> I don't like the idea of a web accouints thing
<rodrigo_> I like though the central storage of account info
<rodrigo_> so that any app can reuse the credentials
<seb128> right
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should give it some though and design thinking to that before bringing it in the distro
<rodrigo_> on the g-c-c mailing list someone posted about the few uses the web accounts applet would have
<rodrigo_> seb128, it's not even started, so there's no code :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, there are just some mockups
<seb128> ok
<seb128> so probably not for this cycle?
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, yeah... there is some nice potential though... but the hard part is making it useful
<rodrigo_> unless someone writes it very quickly, yes, not for this cycle
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, yeah, right now, I don't see it useful
<kenvandine> like how firefox might use the account data for gmail login... etc
<rodrigo_> apart from a central storage of web acocunts
<rodrigo_> which makes a lot of sense
<kenvandine> so those problems need to be solved first
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> like should a user allow just any app they have installed access to their credentials
<kenvandine> or should they be able to opt-in installed apps... which seems to suck
 * kenvandine should actually reply to that email :)
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, yes, it needs a lot more thought
<seb128> Riddell, hey, if you binNEW gnome-panel can you make sure you send the lib to main? other things wait on it
<mterry> seb128, oh, btw, libcanberra isn't in desktop set, so I can't upload
<seb128> mterry, oh, ok
<seb128> I will upload it
<mterry> seb128, desktop trunk is up to date for that (we weren't using a gtk3 branch)
<didrocks> bye bye everyone
<fta> booh, lots of new crashes on natty after today's update :P
<fta> shotwell, glade-3, calibre..
<pitti> fta: hm, calibre has worked fine for me two days ago
<pitti> right, not any more
<pitti> argh new pyqt or so
<fta> pitti, yep, i use it everyday. but now, it crashes on startup
<fta> StacktraceTop:
<fta>  ?? () from /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/sip.so
<fta>  ?? () from /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/sip.so
<fta>  initpictureflow () from /usr/lib/calibre/calibre/plugins/pictureflow.so
<fta>  _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule ()
<pitti> good night for real now
<fta> :)
<fta> pitti, good night
<ricotz> seb128, hi, do you know if robert_ancell is onto working on vala 0.11.2?
<seb128> ricotz, hey, no clue
<seb128> drop him an email?
<ricotz> seb128, i have a package, just a simple update which could be uploaded
<seb128> ricotz, can you open a sponsoring request and subscribe robert?
<ricotz> seb128, is there is script for this?
<seb128> there might, not sure I don't request often for sponsoring
<ricotz> seb128, ok, i do it the manual way ;)
 * micahg isn't aware of a sponsoring script, only for syncs from Debian
<ricotz> seb128, i am not able to assign someone https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala/+bug/673166
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673166 in vala (Ubuntu) "Please update to vala 0.11.2 (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> ricotz, subscribe is enough ;-)
<seb128> we just want to hint
<ricotz> ok
<mterry> seb128, do you know much about the licensing of liblaunchpad-integration?
<seb128> mterry, not sure I want to reply to that, just ask your question
<mterry> seb128, 2 things: COPYING says GPL3, debian/copyright says GPL2+.  I can't find copyright headers in any of the files, so I'm assuming debian/copyright should be updated.  Second, is GPL appropriate here?  Don't we want LGPL?
<seb128> mterry, it's a valid point, yes I think we do
<seb128> mterry, feel free to update the COPYING and debian/copyright
<seb128> mterry, the lib was written by jamesh for Canonical so we have the copyright so updating the license is no issue
<mterry> seb128, OK
<seb128> mterry, thanks for spotting it!
<mterry> np  :)  just happened to look
<mterry> seb128, ah, COPYING wasn't in bzr so that's why there was a mismatch.  Still, the relicense from GPL2+ to GPL3 makes sense
<mterry> I mean LGPL3
<seb128> right
<mterry> seb128, btw, I can answer one question about PyGI: Gtk.get_major_version() shows that by default, 2.0 is loaded.  Still looking into being able to load 3.0
<kenvandine> mterry, ugh... i really hope there is a way to set that...
<seb128> vuntz pointed that g-s does it
<seb128> but it's js not python
<seb128> js/ui/main.js:imports.gi.versions.Gtk = '3.0';
<seb128> is what they do
<kenvandine> seb128, btw i am just running ubuntu-geoip through pbuilder for natty, then it will be ready to sponsor :)
<seb128> kenvandine, great, that and the sound indicator ;-)
<kenvandine> oh... yeah that is still not uploaded for lucid.. was on my nag seb list :)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> I didn't forget about it ;-)
<kenvandine> no joke... i have a tomboy note named "Nag list for seb128"
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i don't look at it daily though, i should :)
<seb128> what else do you have there?
<seb128> I should perhaps do a "nag kenvandine" note ;-)
<kenvandine> indeed :)
<kenvandine> just geoip and indicator-sound  now
<kenvandine> but last cycle it got pretty long
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> don't worry my "nag kenvandine" had quite some items as well
<seb128> not as many that my "nag ted" list though :p
<kenvandine> hahaha
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> ok, stupid launchpad will not be push to ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop3/ubuntu
<seb128> can't we use package names? we really need products to be registered?
<micahg> seb128: try ~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/gnome-desktop3/
<micahg> you might need a series as well
<seb128> well that breaks our standard scheme
<micahg> seb128: try ~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/gnome-desktop3/natty/ubuntu or such
<seb128> stupid launchpad
<seb128> micahg, but thank you ;-)
<kenvandine> mterry, there is a Gtk.require_version
<kenvandine> i suspect that is where you set it
<kenvandine> but don't have gtk3 yet to test :)
<micahg> seb128: it's versatile, so you can choose to push under distro or project
<mterry> kenvandine, interesting, I hadn't discovered that function yet!  That seems to *want* to do what I want, but get_major_version still returns 2
<ari-tczew> hello devs, I would like to ask about merge meta-gnome2 package from Debian. is it makes sense if version is 2.30 ?
<kenvandine> mterry, odd... dunno
<kenvandine> love the docs :)
<mterry> kenvandine, there are docs for gi?  I didn't find them
<kenvandine> haha... i was kidding
<kenvandine> for me the docs are tab completion in ipython :)
<mterry> kenvandine, don't get my hopes up
<kenvandine> painful way... but the best i can do...
<kenvandine> mterry, sorry man!
<mterry> kenvandine, interestingly, Gtk.introspection_module gives "<IntrospectionModule 'Gtk' from '/usr/lib/girepository-1.0/Gtk-3.0.typelib'>" so *something* is right.
<kenvandine> so maybe get_major_version doesn't return what you think it is returning
<mterry> kenvandine, ah!  walters in #introspection cleared it up
<mterry> kenvandine, major version is 2, because the version is 2.91.3, obviously!  :)  get_minor_version() returns 91 correctly
<kenvandine> haha... obviously :)
 * didrocks will rebase his gnome-desktop wallpaper cache for the 4th time and will poke vuntz everyday now :)
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, I've to admit I've been lazy
<seb128> I didn't check if it was easy to update it or not
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for admiting it :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: last time, it was trivial, but not this time ;)
 * didrocks hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: but last time, I used the refresh to apply other comments from vuntz (like multimonitor with different wallpaper support and such)
<seb128> I would usually make a comment on how getting things upstream spare work
<seb128> but you are not the right one for that ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: exactly :-)
<seb128> didrocks, you should go to bed btw
<didrocks> in any case, it's vuntz's fault, once again, we all know that :)
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> seb128: will just do that and go to bed then :)
<seb128> didrocks, tomorrow is not going to be an easy day for you
<didrocks> seb128: what what ? :-)
<seb128> I can see compiz issue raising tomorrow morning ;-)
<chrisccoulson_> asac - do we need the addon overlay in ubufox now? it hasn't worked for the last few releases because there is no gnome-app-install, and nobody missed it ;)
<seb128> not sure why
 * didrocks planned to slack yesterday :)
<seb128> just a feeling
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, upstream bugzilla is down :)
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> seb128: I've already listed known issues with default config
<kenvandine> seb128, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-geoip/ubuntu is ready to sponsor
<kenvandine> when you have a chance
<didrocks> apart from that, working quite well from the last 2 days
<seb128> kenvandine, let me try my chance now
<didrocks> then, if people start to use $plugin with $parameter :)
<seb128> starting with the indicator so I don't forget again
<asac> chrisccoulson_: your call ... was a good thing, but we should rather do something like for plugins with extensions if we want it right ... or rather integrate soft center directly in UI to give a streamlined experience ;)
<didrocks> argh, they added a new structure and replaced that as a parameter :/
<asac> chrisccoulson_: my final goal was to make all ubufox go away, but adding those integration features to ffox plainline ... did you ever try my ntrack online/offline patch?
<chrisccoulson_> asac - ok, i can drop it for now as it's throwing some exceptions.
<chrisccoulson_> i've not tried the ntrack patch yet, it slipped my mind actually ;)
<chrisccoulson_> i'll do that tomorrow
<asac> chrisccoulson_: talk to mvo to also drop the special features were aded to gnome-app-install (if that still eixsts)
<asac> and the special database that was maintained i guess (in app-install-data)
<chrisccoulson_> asac - did you see https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/ubufox/ff-4.0/+merge/40373 too?
<micahg> what about the restart notification?  chrisccoulson_ just dropped that in favor of the ubufox version
<asac> chrisccoulson_: no ... poke me directly on those things ... my mail setup is more busted than ever
<asac> chrisccoulson_: asac at linaro.org if you need anything ;)
<chrisccoulson_> (although, there's more changes coming in a bit, i've just merged the plugin finder code from firefox 4 as well, but i still need to test that)
<asac> added to TODO ... will review
<asac> chrisccoulson_: is ffox 4 in maverick ppa or sokmething?
<seb128> asac, gnome-app-install is not in recent ubuntu version, deprecated by software-center
<asac> so i can test there without building big tree?
<asac> seb128: right. but  maybe that code was moved too ... so we should double check
<seb128> not sure if software-center supersed it for what you are talking about though
<asac> me neither ;)
<seb128> right
<chrisccoulson_> asac - i just use the daily builds for ff4
<asac> chrisccoulson_: maverick? ... kk
 * asac check 
<chrisccoulson_> yeah, maverick is working fine, natty is not working so fine ;)
<asac> chrisccoulson_: safe to use for profile and go back?
<asac> or is a special dir created?
<chrisccoulson_> asac - it creates a special dir
<asac> grewat
<asac> already have it ... will try tomorrow then
<asac> how is it going in desktop world?
<chrisccoulson_> i think it's going ok ;)
<chrisccoulson_> i don't spend that much time in here!
<asac> heh. the begining of cycle is always easy
<asac> everyone is laying back enjoying life ;)
<chrisccoulson_> lol
<asac> until new unity getss dropped after beta ;)
<micahg> asac: chrisccoulson_has been hard at work redoing the packaging for FF4
<asac> good. ;) ... dh7?
<chrisccoulson_> no dh7 yet ;)
<asac> heh
<chrisccoulson_> i did the new lightning packaging with dh7, and i'm not really sure if it gives any benefits
<asac> yeah
<asac> for everything not trival it probably doesnt really matter
 * micahg would love to drop CDBS by the end of the cycle
<asac> most likely just writing debian/rules that does everything manually is similarly good
<micahg> from teh Mozilla packaging at least :-/
<chrisccoulson_> yeah, the firefox packaging is definately not a trivial case ;)
<asac> micahg: ;)
<asac> when is desktop meeting nowadays?
<chrisccoulson_> tuesday afternoons still ;)
 * asac doesnt even remember when that was ;) ... 1500 UTC?
<micahg> 16:30 UTC on Tuesday
<asac> oh
<chrisccoulson_> asac - is it easy to set up a local server for the plugin finder?
<asac> ok added to my calendar ;)
<seb128> it should change in the next weeks though
<asac> chrisccoulson_: yes its quite easy
<asac> seb128: no!!
<asac> ;)
<seb128> since jasoncwarner is moving to .au this week
<asac> seb128: do you have a meeting entry on a calendar and could invite me? so it moves for me?
<chrisccoulson_> he's going to be getting up at 3am ;)
<seb128> asac, we can probably do that yes
<seb128> I will ask jasoncwarner to invite you when we set a new time
<asac> good. thanks
<seb128> yw
 * asac deletes manually created entry again
 * asac out
<seb128> kenvandine, so sponsoring...
<seb128> kenvandine, there to do some tweaks to the geoip one?
<kenvandine> ?
<kenvandine> happy to tweak
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry I got sidetracked
<seb128> I've sponsored indicator-sound
<Sarvatt> bdrung: sorry about the pixman sync request failure, looks to be a toolchain issue with the test suite on natty and I should have caught that
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<seb128> ubuntu-geoip, small comments
<seb128> kenvandine, would be nice so use source v3 for new sources
<seb128> dep5 for copyright as well
<kenvandine> ah... good point
<kenvandine> will do
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, ping
<bdrung> Sarvatt: no problem
<seb128> kenvandine, why do you build-depends on  libglib2.0-bin?
<jasoncwarner> tkamppeter:
<jasoncwarner> hey
<seb128> kenvandine, that seems buggy
<tkamppeter> jasoncwarner, did you see my last messages in the private chat?
<kenvandine> i'll look into that, that was how tedg sent it to me and i didn't catch that
<seb128> kenvandine, also if you are full source why using the ubuntu-desktop vcs rather than the canonical location?
<kenvandine> probably not needed
<kenvandine> i can't push there...
<kenvandine> yet :)
<seb128> until next week? ;-)
<seb128> doh, add "need advocacy comment" to your "nag seb" list
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> ok, i'll fix those up in a few
<kenvandine> oh yeah...   :)
<kenvandine> please do that :)
<kenvandine> anything else?
<seb128> kenvandine, you don't have a compat
<seb128> which seems weird
<seb128> nor a watch
<seb128> kenvandine, otherwise seems fine
<Sarvatt> ugh, pixman 0.20 test suite passes with -O0 on 4.5, passes normally on gcc 4.4 too
<seb128> so mostly wishlist changes
<chrisccoulson_> Sarvatt, heh, we get some 200-odd additional test-suite failures in firefox with the new toolchain ;)
<chrisccoulson_> it's a mess....
<ricotz> seb128, gnome-panel might have a problem the gir package depends on gtk2 also the other "3.0" packages
<seb128> ricotz, what do you mean by "the other "3.0" packages"?
<seb128> ricotz, it's supposed to depends on gtk2 since it doesn't use gtk3 yet
<ricotz> i mean libpanel-applet-3-0, ok, so they are just dummy package which contains quite the same like the -2-0 package?
<seb128> ricotz, no, they are different libraries
<seb128> that's not a gtk2,gtk3 thing
<seb128> it's a applets using bonobo or dbus abi update
<ricotz> ah, alright
<ricotz> sorry
<seb128> the soname 2 is using bonobo
<seb128> the new one is using dbus
<seb128> no worry
<didrocks> ok, gnome-desktop done now (waow, transition to gsettings made me changing my cache format :/)
<seb128> didrocks, waouh
<seb128> didrocks, you can upload your update if you want btw
<didrocks> seb128: already done :)
<seb128> didrocks, great
<seb128> didrocks, you should call it a day then ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: I updated upstream patch as well and I head to threaten vuntz for not giving ice cream at my "pendaison crÃ©maillÃ¨re" :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for updating the control as well
<didrocks> seb128: yw :)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, going now. you should go to bed as well! see you tomorrow :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I will in a bit, 'night!
<didrocks> good night!
 * bcurtiswx_ hugs kenvandine
 * bcurtiswx_ just read the facebook dev response
<kenvandine> seb128, so we dep5, if the packaging is under the same license and copyright, i don't need a separate stanza for it right?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx_, oh? /me looks quick
<seb128> kenvandine, no you don't
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thought so
 * kenvandine still hates debian/copyright :)
<bcurtiswx_> kenvandine, you'll probably want to jump off an ethercliff
<kenvandine> sigh
<kenvandine> he didn't really answer my question!
<bcurtiswx_> i know, welcome tot he revolving door
<seb128> kenvandine, url?
<bcurtiswx_> to the*
<kenvandine> http://bugs.developers.facebook.net/show_bug.cgi?id=13040
<ubot2> bugs.developers.facebook.net bug 13040 in [Old] Rest API "Desktop app failing, API_EC_TOO_MANY_CALLS breaks Ubuntu" [-,Resolved: invalid]
<seb128> thx
<kenvandine> i understand we are being throttled... /me wants to scream!
<kenvandine> "This application clearly throttled due to high DB query count. The application
<kenvandine> has about 8.8 million daily fql.calls resulting in 266 million DB queries."
 * kenvandine reopens bug, they are going to hate me even more
<kenvandine> however, it is slightly informative
<kenvandine> that isn't the query that i expected was the biggest problem
 * kenvandine needs to run... i'll yell at them in a few :)
<bcurtiswx_> cya kenvandine
<james_w> what does MAU mean?
<james_w> because 8.8 million API calls a day < 100 million API calls a day limit, or do they really mean that the limit is 100 million DB queries a day?
<bcurtiswx_> have we started building gtk2.9*.* yet?
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, yes
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, it's in natty
<bcurtiswx_> OK, empathy is at 2.91.*, does that auto-sync? or would someone have to build it?
<bcurtiswx_> iirc that depends on it being in debian-unstable vs debian-testing.. right? which one does it have to be in ?
<seb128> ?
<seb128> empathy 2.91 we don't package yet
<seb128> it will require gtk3 build of other libraries
<seb128> webkit for example
<bcurtiswx_> seb128, OK.  I would like to try helping to take care of empathy and telepathy-* packaging this cycle, so lemme know when I can start helping there.  Will that eventually get auto-sync to start?
<seb128> ok, I will
<seb128> not likely since Debian is frozen for their next stable
<bcurtiswx_> seb128: thanks :)
<mterry> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/launchpad-integration/gtk3/+merge/40486
<mterry> seb128, I can't upload that, so someone else should review and push
<seb128> mterry, I think you need at least a build-dep on gir1.0-gtk-3.0
<seb128> mterry, random comment while reading through, I didn't try to build yet
<mterry> seb128, hrm, my understanding was gir:Depends inserted that, but I didn't confirm.  Checking now shows that it didn't add anything.  Let me see why that is
<mterry> seb128, oh sorry, misread your comment
<seb128> mterry, thumbs rules, dpkg -I gir<name>.deb
<seb128> and copy the depends as build-depends
<seb128> the gir ones at least
<seb128> that's what I do usually
<mterry> seb128, ok, let me confirm my build-depends and gir1.0-launchpad-integration-3.0 depends
<seb128> mterry, you probably want a shlibs:Depends on the gir as well
<mterry> seb128, gir:Depends is supposed to do that...
<mterry> but it didn't, so I'm checking why
<mterry> maybe I misunderstood what it does
<seb128> I though it would add gir depends only
<seb128> gir-* depends
<seb128> not the lib*
<seb128> but I never read the dh_girepository code
<seb128> I'm just speaking based on packages I've seen from debian and copied ;-)
<seb128> they usuaully have shlibs, misc, gir depends
<mterry> seb128, http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-gtk-gnome@lists.debian.org/msg13664.html says it *should* do both
<seb128> ok, learning every day ;-)
<seb128> mterry, seems fine otherwise
<seb128> I just think you lack some gir in your build-depends then
<mterry> seb128, probably true.  I forgot to actually run in pbuilder before I pushed, so checking what that dies on
<SEJeff_work> tedg, ping
<tedg> SEJeff_work, Howdy
<seb128> ok, time to call it a day
<seb128> mterry, I will review lpi tomorrow if nobody does it before
<mterry> seb128, yeah, sorry.  I figured it out I believe, but just doing some last minute tests.  no rush
<seb128> mterry, no worry and no hurry either, push to ppa meanwhile if you want so it's available
<seb128> anyway, 'night
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-10
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, yay... out of that comment from facebook... it was enough for me to figure out how to fix it
<bcurtiswx> nice, what was the prob bob?... or Ken..
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, will you need a guinea pig (A.K.A. tester) ?
<kenvandine> i need many guinea pigs
<kenvandine> before we know
<bcurtiswx> well i can blog it, that will get on planet ubuntu
<bcurtiswx> if you want lots of guinea pigs, they may respond.  Getting Joey over at omgubuntu would suffice for guinea pigs as well
<bcurtiswx> but how would you test it compared to everyone else using the "bad" version?
<bcurtiswx> i assume the only way would be converting enough people that the usage goes down
<pitti> Good morning
<rage_> hi?
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, guten tag
<seb128> wie gets?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! how about you?
<didrocks> hey pitti, seb128
<rage_> o, guys, mb you can help me. there is a problem in skype, after 2 min video conf its crash. ubuntu 10.10.
<rage_> where is problem?
<mvo> hey seb128, good morning
<pitti> hey didrocks
<pitti> bonjour mvo, how was your holiday?
<mvo> hey didrocks and pitti - good morning
<pitti> didrocks: my desktop looks exceptionally ugly today :/
<mvo> pitti: very nice
<didrocks> Guten Morgen mvo :)
<mvo> pitti: berlin is always worth a visit :)
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine thanks
<seb128> hey mvo
<didrocks> pitti: let me guess, compiz? :) how ugly?
<mvo> compiz!
<seb128> compiz 0.9
<seb128> run!
<pitti> didrocks: just like metacity - no effects at all, no transparent notify bubbles, very thin window borders
<didrocks>  /quit it was a fun dayâ¦ see you tomorrow :)
<pitti> and on top of that, panel window list crashes
<didrocks> pitti: hum, weird
 * pitti hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> didrocks: i. e. it looks like no compositing at all -- is that normal?
<didrocks> pitti: I get normal effects there with the default list
<didrocks> pitti: no, it's not
<pitti> or something with my config or system?
<didrocks> pitti: can you paste the output of compliz --replace in a terminal? (after removing ~/.compiz-1 and ~/.config/compiz-1)
<didrocks> compiz*
<pitti> didrocks: I don't have ~/.compiz-1, should I? just .config/compiz-1
<didrocks> pitti: no, it's just for additional plugins if it detects it
<mvo> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> didrocks: hm, seems that did it, it works now
<pitti> didrocks: but now all my keybindings are gone
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo, how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: hum, you mean, you had a .config/compiz-1 before the upgrade?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: good! just returned from a mini vacation. how are you?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, that's related to your config beeing before stored on .config/compiz as told yesterday
<pitti> didrocks: not before today's dist-upgrade
<didrocks> pitti: and no upgrade path right now
<chrisccoulson> mvo - not too bad thanks. did you go anywhere on vacation?
<pitti> didrocks: okay
<didrocks> that's weird that it failed on first start :/
<pitti> didrocks: no window list in panel AND no keybindings, bummer
<mvo> chrisccoulson: yes, I visited my sister in berlin and on the way back some friends, a very nice trip
<pitti> didrocks: no error messages or strange things in compiz output
<didrocks> pitti: no window list in panel?
<didrocks> pitti: you still have the default keybindings, isn't it?
<didrocks> like ctrl + alt + arrows
<didrocks> or super + e
<seb128> didrocks, the new compiz doesn't respect the GNOME keybindings?
<didrocks> seb128: no, because of the ini backend
<seb128> that seems buggy indeed
<didrocks> seb128: agreed, already talked about it with sam
<pitti> didrocks: right
<pitti> ah, with compiz running now, the window list works again, too
<didrocks> pitti: I don't understand the "no window list"
<seb128> didrocks, is there any way to set keybindings in the ini file?
<didrocks> ah :)
<seb128> or using ccsm
<pitti> didrocks: it crashed before, perhaps because compiz was in that weird broken state
<didrocks> seb128: maybe we'll use the gsettings backend, we can imagine making a migration there
<didrocks> pitti: maybe, we'll see on others upgrade if it repeats or not
<seb128> I'm wondering if I should upgrade or not ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: only if everything works after then :-)
<didrocks> (maybe time to /ignore seb128 and "lalalala" :))
<seb128> lol
<seb128> do you have a ccsm in the new compiz?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - is compiz-gnome missing a conflicts / replaces on compiz-plugins?
<chrisccoulson> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/gconf/schemas/compiz-screenshot.schemas', which is also in package compiz-plugins 1:0.8.6-0ubuntu12
<didrocks> pitti: I've upgraded ccsm in any case if you need to define some keybinding
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<didrocks> seb128: ^^
<seb128> seems chrisccoulson is a brave man
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128, how are you?
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson , oh really? ok, fixing it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine, you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - not too bad thanks, battling with no WM this morning though ;)
<seb128> join the line after pitti
<seb128> I didn't dare to upgrade yet ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, I told you yesterday that today would be a busy day for you ;-)
<chrisccoulson> oh, compiz is running now, but no gtk-window-decorator
<chrisccoulson> brb, session restart ;)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I was afraid you were so right that I prefered to sleep and forget :)
<seb128> lol
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs seb128
<didrocks> "that will be a long dayâ¦"
<didrocks> I still don't understand how chris get a compiz-plugins 1:0.8.6-0ubuntu12 :)
<seb128> well tomorrow is an holiday at least
<didrocks> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz
<didrocks> seb128: no, I won't take it, I need a swap day for my moving and in the same time, I have quite things on my plate I want to finish before eow :)
<seb128> didrocks, it probably unpacked the new compiz-gnome before dealing with the compiz-plugins installed
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: how did you get a compiz-plugins 1:0.8.6-0ubuntu12 ? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz says that the highest version was 1:0.8.6-0ubuntu9.1
<seb128> didrocks, race on upgrade, you need a replaces in any case
<didrocks> seb128: it's rather a version issue ^
<didrocks> hum, ok, I suck
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/compiz/1:0.8.6-0ubuntu12
<didrocks> let me check :)
<seb128> didrocks, ^?
<chrisccoulson> :)
<didrocks> ok, I shouldn't rely on rmadison :))
<chrisccoulson> ok, no window decorations after a session restart either ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: urghâ¦ do you have some traces?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: like, can you try compiz --replace in a terminal?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, decoration are overrated
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - compiz --replace looks normal, it even starts gtk-window-decorator
<rodrigo_> morning
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: can you try a session restart?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, just tried that ;)
<rodrigo_> hi seb128
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, but now that it started at least once :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - i did it already, that's why i restarted my session a few lines ago ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but you had no decorator before restarting
<didrocks> what seb128 is telling :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, seems didrocks wants to check if now you got some config in place which will make the decorator start
<seb128> like if compiz --replace did something
<didrocks> seb128: exactly, thanks for making it clear :)
<chrisccoulson> oh, what i mean is that the gtk-window-decorator is starting, but it's not drawing the decoration ;)
<chrisccoulson> so, even with compiz --replace, i get no borders
<chrisccoulson> but gtk-window-decorator is running
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> everything is uptodate?
<seb128> or did you upgrade broke due the conflicts?
<chrisccoulson> i'm just testing that
<chrisccoulson> oops
<chrisccoulson> my bad
<seb128> I knew it!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> \o/
<chrisccoulson> it was because compiz-gnome failed to upgrade ;)
<seb128> well, half your fault, the replaces bug is didrocks's ;-)
<didrocks> (fixed in the packaging branch btw)
<chrisccoulson> so, everything is working now :)
<didrocks> nice!
<chrisccoulson> i guess what i should do now is break didrocks browser with a firefox upload
<chrisccoulson> just to return the favour ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I will use chromium :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> well, i've just gone back to using firefox-4.0 built on the natty toolchain, and it's terrible
<chrisccoulson> it crashed even before opening a webpage
<chrisccoulson> urgh, it really is unusable
<seb128> you need to corner doko
<pitti> for now you could build it against gcc-4.4?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - or just run the maverick build ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's what i've been doing up until now
<seb128> didrocks, ^
<seb128> didrocks, did you try building compiz in release mode on the old gcc?
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't, I'm on natty
<seb128> your compiz issue could be due the new gcc or something
<seb128> similar to firefox issues chrisccoulson is having
<didrocks> seb128: nice idea, let's see if I can try on maverick (not today I guess, it's a low priority for now)
<seb128> well you can push to a maverick ppa
<seb128> easy enough
<didrocks> seb128: ok, let's go the lazy way then and hoped all the dep are there :)
<seb128> didrocks, ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: btw, I was wondering, did the team received FTBFS from a team ppa or just the uploader?
<seb128> just the uploader I guess
<chrisccoulson> oh
<seb128> I didn't receive any ftbfs for the team ppa
<didrocks> ok, I can upload without spamming you! :)
<chrisccoulson> the firefox crash looks like it might be a gtk issue
<seb128> chrisccoulson, *jedi wave...* there is no gtk issue
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, using gtk3?
<seb128> gtk2 didn't change a lot recently
<chrisccoulson> aha. even firefox 3.6 crashes, and that's still the maverick build
<chrisccoulson> yeah, both builds are unusable
<chrisccoulson> chromium too!
<seb128> you messed up your system
<seb128> ?
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, not sure ;)
<seb128> when did that start?
<seb128> did you get gtk2 2.23?
<chrisccoulson> since i updated to gtk2 2.23 ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell updated that during the night
<chrisccoulson> which was about 20 minutes ago
<seb128> ok
<seb128> great
<seb128> great (ironic)
<seb128> rather
<chrisccoulson> in fact, the upgrade didn't even pull in the natty build of firefox-4 yet (i've got that pinned)
<seb128> do you have a crash stacktrace?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, but i can't open a browser to paste it anywhere ;)
 * chrisccoulson installs epiphany
<seb128> lol
<seb128> can you copy the bt start in there?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - http://paste.ubuntu.com/529221/
<chrisccoulson> yay for epiphany \o/
<rage_> Ð±Ð»Ñ
<rage_>  there is a problem in skype, after 2 min video conf its crash. ubuntu 10.10.
<rage_>  where is problem?
<chrisccoulson> rage_, #ubuntu for user support
<seb128> chrisccoulson, weird, the clipboard code didn't change for a while
<seb128> chrisccoulson, does it depends of what you have copied in the clipboard?
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i don't think i had anything in the clipboard
<seb128> weird
<seb128> what arch are you on?
<chrisccoulson> amd64
<seb128> is anybody else on natty amd64 with the new gtk?
<seb128> is firefox still working?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, the null applet is for taking over the obsolete applets, I guess upstream has left as it is intentionally
<chrisccoulson> i'm guessing that GdkDisplay gets closed somewhere else, so it's probably not really clipboard related
<rodrigo_> seb128, talking with upstream
<seb128> rodrigo_, who is upstream?
<seb128> rodrigo_, I talked to vuntz before pinging you yesterday
<rodrigo_> seb128, Enrico Minack has done the latest releases
<seb128> rodrigo_, he said it's probably easy to port but that he would not have time for it now
<rodrigo_> ah, vuntz, so talking with him
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, if you talk to him maybe ask if he can review and commit bugzilla patches
<seb128> him being Enrico
<seb128> is he on IRC?
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> no idea what his nick is
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you see any reason why the null applet could do the same work using the new lib?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, although it would need to start over, that is, no obsolete applets right now
<seb128> "could not"
<seb128> you mean?
<seb128> I though that was just cleaning the config
<rodrigo_> yes, it checks the applets the user has, and if some is obsolete, shows a dialog and cleans it up
<seb128> or doesn't show a dialog in our case I think
<seb128> (we have a patch for that iirc)
<rodrigo_> ah
 * rodrigo_ looks the package
<seb128> we have a silent applet patch
<seb128> rodrigo_, I still fail to see what upstream would have left it intentionally
<seb128> is there any issue porting it to the new apis? would that break how it works or something?
<rodrigo_> no, no issue, just that I wonder if upstream has left it intentionally to check for the old applets
<rodrigo_> although that can't be, since the rest uses gsettings afaics, and this one uses gconf
<seb128> well it checks the panel config no?
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> it could probably do that with the new api as well
<seb128> I don't think the fact that applets use bonobo or dbus matters to read the config
<rodrigo_> seb128, it provides the .server files for the obsolete applets
<rodrigo_> so that when they are loaded, the null applet is instead
<seb128> well, it could provide the dbus equivalent no?
<rodrigo_> yes
<seb128> I will let you sort that with upstream
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> if needed we can put the null applet in a different binary
<seb128> install it for upgrades and not on new installs
<seb128> it would allow getting ride of bonobo without having to port it
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - ok, confirmed it's working ok with the last build of gtk. will bisect that today, that shouldn't take too long to do
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ? it's working with git you mean and not 2.23.1?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i meant with the last natty version
<chrisccoulson> 2.22
<seb128> what version is buggy then?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - 2.23.1
<seb128> ok
<pitti> mvo: did you send the patch for bug 623819 upstream anywhere? I can't find it
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 623819 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] policykit is not responding (affects: 141) (dups: 8) (heat: 642)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623819
<seb128> pitti, that was somewhat ubuntu specific I think
<pitti> I don't see how?
<seb128> pitti, upstream doesn't autorestart it, does it?
<seb128> bug #623819
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 623819 in policykit-1-gnome (Ubuntu) "[Maverick] policykit is not responding (affects: 141) (dups: 8) (heat: 642)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/623819
<seb128> ups
<seb128> bug #499937
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 499937 in software-center (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "[master] install/remove buttons don't react when policykit is not running (affects: 32) (dups: 15) (heat: 167)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/499937
<pitti> seb128: right, but why shouldn't they?
<seb128> pitti, oh, I don't say they shouldn't, I'm just saying the change you point is to fix another ubuntu specific patch
<seb128> we should probably upstream both
<seb128> but upstreaming the second one without the autorestart doesn't make sense
<pitti> seb128: mbiebl and I wondered about that last week, when we updated various utopia packages
<pitti> seb128: it's just one patch, the second upload just updated it
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> it's not like upstream was reviewing patches anyway
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> but yeah we should probably send it there if that was not done
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just for info firefox starts fine with the new gtk there
<seb128> (i386)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm :/
<seb128> hum
<seb128> ImportError: /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so: undefined symbol: gtk_private_flags_get_type
<seb128> seems the gtk update broke pygtk
<mvo> pitti: I did not send it, I can do that now
<pitti> mvo: thanks; I couldn't quite figure out the rationale for this
<seb128> pitti, the autorestart?
<seb128> pitti, basically making sure the daemon is running, otherwise if it crashes you get things using polkit not working
<pitti> ah, and the session registration is for a clean shutdown?
<seb128> yes, otherwise it leads to the second bug pointed before
<seb128> the session complaining that some program is not responding and asking if it should wait or close
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you work on gtk?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, it's now ported to the new API, but still need to know what to do with the deprecated applets, I guess we can just start over with no deprecated applets for now
<rodrigo_> seb128, waiting for vuntz to show up
<seb128> rodrigo_, right
<rodrigo_> in the meantime, I'll go out for some shopping, my fridge is empty :-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks!
<rodrigo_> brb
<seb128> rodrigo_, have fun
<rodrigo_> fun in the supermarket? :D
<seb128> rodrigo_, ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm going to bisect gtk now, once i've tested the current git
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you see what happened to gtk_private_flags_get_type?
<seb128> bug #673432
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673432 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "python2.6: undefined symbol: gtk_private_flags_get_type (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673432
<seb128> chrisccoulson, my download sucks and I don't have a git checkout or the new gtk downloaded yet
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, sure
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I see robert_ancell dropped it from the .symbols
<chrisccoulson> just going to restart my session again though
<seb128> but that's wrong, that's an abi break
<seb128> ok
<bigon> seb128: do you think you could merge gobject-introspection from debian?
<seb128> bigon, why?
<bigon> for the conflicting name with debian
<seb128> well does it create any issue?
<seb128> we probably don't have people changing distro this way often
<seb128> it will be merged at some point but it's not a priority right now, feel free to do the work and ask for sponsoring though
<rodrigo_> how is it called in debian?
<bigon> rodrigo_: a - was added to the lib pkg to conform with policy
<seb128> chrisccoulson, there?
<seb128> do you have a git checkout from gtk and the 2.23.1 tarball?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i do now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can you diff gtk/gtk.symbols
<seb128> between those
<seb128> ?
<chrisccoulson> gtkprivate.h is gone from gtk_public_h_sources now, which causes that error
<chrisccoulson> oh
<chrisccoulson> hang on, might help if i check out the right branch ;)
<seb128> -gtk_private_flags_get_type G_GNUC_CONST
<seb128> I've that in the diff 2.22 to 2.23.1
<seb128> but git.gnome.org suggest the line is still in current gtk-2-24
<seb128> so I'm wondering if something weird happened when the tarball was rolled
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - there's no difference between tarball and git with gtk.symbols
<seb128> git doesn't have gtk_private_flags_get_type in its .symbols?
<seb128> can you see what commit dropped it?
<seb128> nessita, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
<nessita> good morning everyone!
<rodrigo_> hi nessita
<nessita> hello seb128, rodrigo_!
<pitti> hey nessita, good morning
<nessita> good morning to you too, pitti
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did you check in gtk-2-24 or in trunk?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm confused now. in gtk-2.24, gtk-private.h is still in gtk_public_h_sources, but in our tarball it is in gtk_private_h_sources
<chrisccoulson> :/
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - there isn't a 2.23.1 tag in git either
<chrisccoulson> i'm really confused now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, git master seems to have it in the public list
<seb128> it's like whoever rolled the tarball messed up on its checkout
<fta> pitti, hi. http://paste.ubuntu.com/529284/
<seb128> chrisccoulson, could you copy the git Makefile over, update the autoreconf 070_mandatory-relibtoolize.patch
<seb128> chrisccoulson, and see if that fixes the issue and bring the symbol back?
<seb128> git checkout still running there...
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, will do that, 1 second
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think the issue is rather gtk.symbols
<seb128> chrisccoulson, gtk_private_flags_get_type is nowhere in the 2.23 source
<seb128> I don't see how changing include will bring back a symbol definition which is not there
<didrocks> waow, not a lot of bugs on compiz package (yet) :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the symbol is autogenerated from glib-mkenums, which is scanning the public headers
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hum, are you sure?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the .symbols is in git and seems updated by commits
<seb128> not sure how it would get a symbol which is nowhere in the source?
<seb128> $ grep gtk_private_flags_get_type gtk+-2.23.1 -r
<seb128> $
<seb128> $ grep gtk_private_flags_get_type gtk+-2.22.0 -r | wc -l
<seb128> 10
<seb128> $
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the code is autogenerated from the enum declaration in gtkprivate.h normally
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hum, right
<chrisccoulson> it should be in gtktypebuiltins.h, which is the output of glib-mkenums
<Amaranth> didrocks: Except they're still calling compiz-fusion-* :P
<Amaranth> err, called
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, I didn't want to change that in the same upload and on my own :) should we rename to compiz++ or compiz?
<Amaranth> didrocks: And we seem to be using the ini backend by default and the plugin list I put in the package for the gconf backend is completely wrong so if you enable it compiz segfaults
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, we use ini right now until the gsettings one is ready
<didrocks> Amaranth: I didn't try the gconf backend, just updated, what's wrong in it?
<seb128> hum
<Amaranth> didrocks: plugin names changed and such
<Amaranth> I managed to get it working now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, seems you have things under control, I will let you fix it ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i've got no idea what this tarball really contains, but it definately isn't from gtk-2.24
<didrocks> Amaranth: ok, push your branch once you are happy with it :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, we probably want to check with mclasen what happened when he joins IRC
<Amaranth> didrocks: But with the patch to not use a shell script and using the ini backend we only enable those "needed" plugins
<Amaranth> since the ini backend has no default configuration
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what about pushing 2.23.0 has a 2.23.1.is.2.23.0?
<didrocks> Amaranth: there are, it's in core.xml
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think we should do that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want me to do it?
<Amaranth> didrocks: Ok, then it just isn't working
<seb128> chrisccoulson, or do you do it?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, if you don't mind. i can't upload that anyway ;)
<didrocks> Amaranth: it is working, if you compiz --replace, you will have the default list loaded
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<Amaranth> didrocks: First time starting compiz after the switch I got my list of needed packages only
<didrocks> Amaranth: I don't understand the "list of needed packages"
<Amaranth> err, I meant plugins
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, the default ones, looks at core.xml, isn't it?
<Amaranth> didrocks: We added some code to make sure you cannot disable certain plugins as they are essential to having a working window manager
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I will just roll back to 2.22
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - cool, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I've that locally it's easier to just do the changelog update and rebuild
<Amaranth> That list is in the patch that moves the shell script stuff into the compiz binary
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thank you for helping debugging
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<didrocks> Amaranth: right, and I changed it to load ccp only and rely on core.xml as suggested by sam
<Amaranth> hrm
<didrocks> Amaranth: if mean the "if (list of plugin == 0) -> then load â¦ right ?
<Amaranth> didrocks: The point of having those plugins hard coded in that patch was to make sure you couldn't turn them off
<didrocks> Amaranth: do you speak abot that part of the patch?
<Amaranth> didrocks: Yeah
<didrocks> Amaranth: it's not avoiding people to turn them off
<Amaranth> didrocks: It was in 0.8
<didrocks> it's just "if you don't provide any plugin on the command line, please load those"
<Amaranth> maniac added code so that plugins loaded from command line could not be unloaded
<Amaranth> Mostly as a fix for people unloading ccp
<didrocks> Amaranth: so, it's not that part of the patch
<didrocks> Amaranth: just show me that part of code then :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: That part was upstream
<Amaranth> All the patch had to do was put that list in the same place plugins loaded at the command line would be and compiz treated them as such
<Amaranth> So would not let you unload them
<didrocks> Amaranth: ah ok, the mecanism should be expanded upstream to get the same behavior in core.xml then
<Amaranth> That way we can have our default plugins in core.xml with whatever functionality we think it nice and still allow people to disable most of them
<Amaranth> But they could not disable ones required for a working window manager
<Amaranth> We don't want plugins in core.xml treated the same way
<didrocks> Amaranth: well, I still think that it's quite doubtfull to have that and default in core.xml. It should be a "required" in core.xml file
<didrocks> Amaranth: the issue smspillaz noticed in that part of the patch is that some plugins are loaded twice
<didrocks> like loaded by the ccp, and then by the hard coded list
<Amaranth> compiz isn't supposed to let that happen :)
<didrocks> it is apparently :)
<didrocks> so, I think a require tag in core.xml makes way more sense to handle that and will be a nice feature to add
<Amaranth> didrocks: In that case, you have the wrong zoom plugin in your defaults
<Amaranth> ezoom is so much better I'm not sure why we even ported zoom to 0.9
<didrocks> Amaranth: the dx team told me to use zoom, I will ask them if there is anything specific in zoom or ezoom
<Amaranth> I hope the answer isn't due to unity
<Amaranth> hopefully just a typo
<Amaranth> didrocks: btw, what do you think about bundling the core and plugin pack tarballs together in one source package? Then we could have compiz-plugins contain all the plugins we use and/or want to ship and compiz-plugins-extra be everything we don't
<didrocks> Amaranth: no, it's just that they think that zoom is better right now. In any case, people can change their defaults
<Amaranth> Should save on disk space
<didrocks> Amaranth: agreed, we still have to figure out if we get daily builds as I think it doesn't work really well with 3.0 format last time I checked
<didrocks> Amaranth: but if we can do that, that will be nice :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: hum, the plugins needs libcompizconfig, isn't it?
<Amaranth> eh?
<didrocks> the one not in the compiz tarball
<didrocks> let me check
<Amaranth> Oh, for the ccp plugin, yes
<Amaranth> But we're always going to be installing that by default anyway
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, but it's required to have it to build the ccp plugin, isn't it?
<Amaranth> actually I think the ccp plugin is built by libcompizconfig
<didrocks> Amaranth: you're right
<didrocks> so, no issue with bundling in that case
<didrocks> just that compiz-core segfault if build in Release mode right now
<didrocks> but I'm looking at it
<didrocks> Amaranth: btw, I didn't find time to update yet the extra plugins
<Amaranth> Last time I mentioned bundling all work on packaging 0.9 stopped due to the answer so I'm glad to see you like the idea :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: the thing is we should just check that daily builds still works with 3.0 format
<didrocks> Amaranth: so, let's wait a little, I'll try to gather some infos for this
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, the gnome-desktop-3 changes are not in the ~ubuntu-desktop branch, so where are they?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's in ~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-desktop/ubuntu-gtk3
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<seb128> stupid launchpad will not let me use gnome-desktop3
<rodrigo_> need a new version for g-s-d
<seb128> it wants a registered component
<rodrigo_> g-s-d now almost builds, although I had to temporarily disable a couple patches
<seb128> rodrigo_, there is no newer version?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, 2.91.2
<seb128> hum, it didn't show up on the ftp list
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> it was released last night
<rodrigo_> let me check if it's in download.g.o
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnome-desktop/2.91/
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's not?
<rodrigo_> oh, wasn't uploaded :(
<rodrigo_> oh wait, he released 2.91.2 ???
<rodrigo_> 2.91.1, sorry
<seb128> rodrigo_, that's the version we have
<seb128> I did the update yesterday evening
<rodrigo_> yeah
<rodrigo_> got confused, today's was 2.91.2 gnome release
<didrocks> seb128: FYI, building compiz on maverick doesn't solve the issue of segfault at runtime (still in the same plugin btw)
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> was worth trying
<didrocks> sure :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, so (I hope), just missing libgnomekbd, robert said he was working on it, do you know if he pushed/uploaded somewhere?
<seb128> rodrigo_, it's in the lp:~robert-ancell/+junk/libgnomekbd-gnome3
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> I'll build and upload to our gnome3 ppa, ok?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> and update to 2.91.2
<seb128> let me review the work maybe
<seb128> well you can work on the update
<seb128> I will review what he did as well
<rodrigo_> ok, will push my branch as soon as it builds
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-desktop/2_91_2_release
<rodrigo_> I'll send a mail to robert
<seb128> rodrigo_, ?
<rodrigo_> ugh, I used gnome-desktop!!
<seb128> rodrigo_, is that libgnomekbd?
<seb128> I'm very confused
<rodrigo_> yes, sorry
<rodrigo_> me too, by working on so many modules
<rodrigo_> I'll remove that branch and push to the correct place
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/libgnomekbd/2_91_2_release
<seb128_> re
<seb128_> sorry got disconnected
<seb128_> rodrigo_, reviewing it now
<rodrigo_> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/libgnomekbd/2_91_2_release is the correct one
<seb128_> ok
<rodrigo_> got confused by working on so many modules at the same time
<rodrigo_> seb128_, I guess we'd need to rename the libs to -3
<seb128> yes, don't upload that, it's buggy
<rodrigo_> yes, just saw it, so fixing it on my branch
<seb128> /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-3.0.so: undefined reference to `g_application_set_action_enabled'
<seb128> build fails there
<rodrigo_> hmm, need a new glib/gtk?
<rodrigo_> it builds fine for me
<seb128> likely, build-depends should be updated
<rodrigo_> right
<seb128> and upstream configure as well
<seb128> we should rename the source as well
<seb128> and the library
<seb128> not sure what we want to do with the common and capplet binaries though
<rodrigo_> so, the library is libgnomekbd7, so to what should I rename it, libgnomekbd7-3?
<seb128> the library doesn't need renaming since the soname change
<rodrigo_> so, keep it at libgnomekbd7?
<seb128> yes
<rodrigo_> and what about gkbd-capplet, add -3 suffix?
<seb128> it's a bit of a mess it seems
<rodrigo_> yes
<freestyle> hi
<seb128> I'm not sure
<seb128> upstream didn't version the .pc or anything
<seb128> it's not made to be installable at the same time than the old one
<freestyle> i have a problem with mi graphic card
<seb128> freestyle, hey
<seb128> freestyle, try #ubuntu for user questions
<freestyle> ok thanz
<rodrigo_> seb128, right
<rodrigo_> ok, out for lunch, bbl
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, I need to give that some thinking
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, I will think about it while you eat, ping me when you are back
<rodrigo_> ok
<kenvandine> seb128, good morning :)
<seb128> hey kenvandine
<seb128> how are you?
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll get back to fixing those issues with ubuntu-geoip, i want to finish some SRUs for that facebook fix
<kenvandine> for lucid and maverick :)
<kenvandine> good, now :)
<kenvandine> i fixed it, and back ported to both lucid and maverick last night
<seb128> kenvandine, you figured what is wrong?
<kenvandine> even though facebook didn't directly answer my question, his comment did make it clear that db query count matters
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> there is one query we do that does subqueries for each friend you have
<kenvandine> so it is exponential
<kenvandine> the way we do it is what they document in their best practices
<kenvandine> so our one API request could easily turn into thousands of db queries
<mterry> seb128, heyo, I updated my launchpad-integration branch last night
<kenvandine> however, the allocation docs say the allocation is "API requests"
<kenvandine> but i guess each of those nested db queries count as API requests
<seb128> kenvandine, so the documentation is wrong?
<seb128> or confusing
<kenvandine> which is what i have been asking them about for months
<kenvandine> not documented
<seb128> ok, I see
<seb128> mterry, hey
<kenvandine> they have no docs that mention anything about DB query count
<seb128> mterry, great, I will review it in a bit
<kenvandine> anyway, that particular query is actually pretty useless in gwibber :)
<kenvandine> so my fix is to remove it and back port a fix i had in maverick to get comments inline
<kenvandine> so easy :)
<seb128> great
<kenvandine> and a simple SRU
<kenvandine> just want to test it again when I am more awake before uploading :)
<didrocks> seb128: do you know what's the story with valac-0.10 and valac-0.12 and the alternatives?
<didrocks> seb128: for instance, I have valac-0.10 by default as a debian alternative, and so, it doesn't pick my vapi file in /usr/share/vala-0.12/vapi/
<didrocks> (and some -dev package install vapi file in one or the other directory, not both)
<seb128> didrocks, things should install in /usr/share/vala/vapi/
<seb128> not the versioned dir
<seb128> to avoid those issues
<didrocks> seb128: ok, this path is included by both valac? trying
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> if so, will upload gee to ship only in why
<didrocks> seb128: is there some ABI issue to get 2 valac?
<seb128> to respond to the alternative, not sure which version should be default
<didrocks> I didn't follow at all this transition
<seb128> I didn't follow much but I don't think there is
<seb128> the dx guys might know better
<didrocks> seb128: the common directory works, thanks! :)
<seb128> didrocks, yw
<bcurtiswx_> today's compiz updates broke desktop effects
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: which ones? your settings or all effects?
<seb128> didrocks, the g-c-c tab
<seb128> known issue
<bcurtiswx_> i can't enable desktop effects at all
<didrocks> oh that
<didrocks> right, known issue
<bcurtiswx_> ok, good to know
<bcurtiswx_> i was using docky, lol.. had to go to a 2nd panel
<seb128> bcurtiswx_, ?
<seb128> we might not be talking about the same thing
<bcurtiswx_> without desktop effects, docky won't work
<seb128> do you just speak about the ui to change the effect level?
<seb128> ok, so compiz doesn't work?
<bcurtiswx_> yes, i guess thats what i was saying earlier
<bcurtiswx_> i try to enable desktop effects, doesn't work.. docky requires compiz and docky isn't working
<seb128> ok, so didrocks it's back to you
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: well, can you switch ws with ctrl + alt + <arrow>?
<didrocks> or super + e, super +w working?
<bcurtiswx_> ctrl + alt + arrow works (no effects tho)
<bcurtiswx_> supers don't
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ps aux | grep meta
<bcurtiswx_> lol, google chrome keeps crashing before I can get the paste.ubuntu.com link
<bcurtiswx_> sudo apt-get install firefox, it'll be a sec
<bcurtiswx_> has apport been enabled this cycle?
<bcurtiswx_> hmm, firefox crashes too
<bcurtiswx_> but i can reproduce that in both with a double click on the URL bar
 * bcurtiswx_ will try refraining from dobule click
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/529358
<bcurtiswx_> it still crashed, but i got the number down at least
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ok, for some reason, metacity is launched for you
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: can you try in a terminal compiz --replace ?
<bcurtiswx_> k, i tried enabling desktop effects, and it went back to using metacity
<didrocks> cyphermox_: hey, do you have some time to finish the work on e-d-s and evolution ?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: hence the fact, try compiz --replace in a terminal
<bcurtiswx_> yes, i did that..
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: what's the ouptut?
<cyphermox_> didrocks, yeah it's finished, but still would have an issue with migration
<didrocks> cyphermox_: no answer from upstream?
<cyphermox_> mbarnes answered, and was looking into it yesterday, I just hadn't logged back in on GimpNet
<cyphermox_> I really need to add this to autojoin ;)
<bcurtiswx_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/529359
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, ^^
<didrocks> cyphermox_: yeah :)
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: and then, it exit?
<bcurtiswx_> no.
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: so, you have the "desktop effects" there?
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, right now just a blinking cursor, not exited
<didrocks> when you ctrl + alt + arrows, you have something different
<didrocks> right?
<bcurtiswx_> yes
<didrocks> ok, so can you try adding docky?
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/529366
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: well, this is another issue I think, at least, you have compiz running now
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: can you please try logout and login again and see if compiz is running?
<bcurtiswx_> sure
<didrocks> thanks :)
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, yes, appears compiz is working
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ok, so it was only the first time compiz was supposed to start that it didn't
<bcurtiswx_> but docky is running too, but has a black area that takes up about 1/9 of the screen
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: do you have some time for another test?
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, sure
<didrocks> rm -rf ~/.config/compiz-1/ ~/.compiz-1
<didrocks> then, logout
<didrocks> and login again
<didrocks> (don't do any compiz --replace between)
<bcurtiswx_> no compiz, but strangely docky's working with a big black bar
<bcurtiswx_> as before
<bcurtiswx_> confirmed with metacity in ps aux | grep meta
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: and so, you don't have a ~/.config/compiz-1 directory?
<bcurtiswx_> no just compiz
<didrocks> oh, another test btw (seeing if old data can infer)
<didrocks> mv ~/.config/compiz ~/.config/compizoldconfig
<didrocks> then logout, login again and confirm that metacity is still running and not compiz
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, no new compiz directory and metacity is running
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ok, and then, now if you run compiz --replace, you have the compiz-1 directory, right?
<didrocks> and subsequent logout/login should be fine
<bcurtiswx_> should that command exit?
<bcurtiswx_> and yes compiz-1 appeared
<didrocks> no, it shouldn't exit
<bcurtiswx_> ok i'll logout/login
<didrocks> ok :)
<bcurtiswx_> logout/in .. metacity is back
<didrocks> hum? really?
<bcurtiswx_> si
 * didrocks scratches his head
<didrocks> your kept ~/.config/compiz-1 right?
<didrocks> you*
<bcurtiswx_> yup
<didrocks> humâ¦ weirdâ¦
<rodrigo_> seb128, ping
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<didrocks> I honestly don't see what's the issue for that then
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, what did you think about libgnomekbd?
<bcurtiswx_> upon a compiz --replace eeverything works great tho :-\
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: yeah, but in the later case, when you logout and login after compiz --replace, you got compiz, right?
<bcurtiswx_> no
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: and not with your latest test
<bcurtiswx_> lemme just do it once more..
<didrocks> yes, please :)
<bcurtiswx_> hmm, side note, this time i physically closed the terminal which i typed compiz --replace.. in stead of logout login with it open.. will see if that makes a diff
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, metacity :(
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: I really don't see the difference with the first when it was workingâ¦
<bcurtiswx_> compiz works now with compiz --replace.. but as soon as i logout and login it goes to metacity
<didrocks> seb128: does the output of required components go to somewhere like .xsession-errors?
<seb128> didrocks, it should be in .xsession-errors yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I dropped my thoughs in bug #673537
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 673537 in libgnomekbd (Ubuntu) "should build a GTK3 version (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673537
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: can you paste the output of that file, please?
<bcurtiswx_> sure, one sec
<rodrigo_> seb128, looking
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/529376
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, after that i got new errors (upon a chrome crash) with (nautilus:5729): GConf-CRITICAL **: gconf_value_free: assertion `value != NULL' failed
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: hum, no trace of compiz wanting to start, what gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager gives you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, and the source package name libgnomekbd3, or just leave it as it is?
<bcurtiswx_> metacity
<bcurtiswx_> lol
<bcurtiswx_> but ps aux... doesn't show it
<seb128> rodrigo_, reload the bug
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: you changed something that try to load metacity :)
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: can you please change that to compiz ?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: logout/login to confirm that compiz is now loaded
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, keep the same source name, but change the packages names?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, don't change anything
<rodrigo_> seb128, we can make the GTK3 packages depend on the -3 versions
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, ok
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, i have the compiz --replace and i did the gconftool again and it shows metacity again
<seb128> rodrigo_, just do it as normal update, it just force us to upload g-s-d g-c-c and g-s in one row
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: no, change the key please
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, so do I upload it as it is? any more review?
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, oh, in the file?
<seb128> rodrigo_, you can upload to the ppa, but you will need to do a gnome-screensaver gtk3 build as well to match it ;-)
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, what program edits those keys ?
<seb128> well, once you are done with g-s-d g-c-c
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: gconftool-2 -t string -s /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager compiz
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I need to run for an hour for some erands
<seb128> see you in a bit
<seb128> I will review lpi as well when I'm back
<rodrigo_> have fun :)
<seb128> thanks
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, :)
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ok, then compiz this time? :)
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, yup compiz
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: ok, can you please try this time:
<didrocks> rm -r ~/.config/compiz-1
<bcurtiswx_> logout/in ?
<didrocks> then, ensure that compiz is still the default: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<didrocks> and logout/login :)
<bcurtiswx_> that says compiz, logout/in now
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, compiz :)
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: hum, ok, then not sure what's went on the first time and why it changed to metacity
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, could the updates have done that?
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: no, the update doesn't touch user config
 * bcurtiswx_ shrugs
<bcurtiswx_> i hope i'm the only case of that then
<didrocks> so, after exit/login you get metacity by default, weirdâ¦
<didrocks> well, we will fix it if you are not alone :)
<didrocks> it just we should find what's went wrong
<bcurtiswx_> yeah, i'm willing to help if you know what to do
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: I'm not that sure, apart from if you clicked on the appearance selection property for desktop effects which changes the gconf key
<didrocks> but I doubt of that :)
<bcurtiswx_> i can try..
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: no no
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: I meant if you clicked just after the upgrade :)
<didrocks> but obviously you didn't
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, i just did that now..
<bcurtiswx_> and it made that key metacity
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: yeah, that's expected
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, OK, fix already in the works i assume
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: changing the key is expected, not detecting compiz is that panel shouldn't happen but is a known bug
<didrocks> bcurtiswx_: if you want to work on that, you're welcome, I don't really have the time for that :)
<didrocks> shouldn't be complicated, just a string or something not detected
<didrocks> oh maybe, I have an idea
 * bcurtiswx_ is apprently the harbinger of idea provoking
<didrocks> ok fixed :)
<didrocks> will upload that
<didrocks> so, the desktop effects should work as before
<didrocks> but it still doesn't explain the upgrade path issue :)
<didrocks> pitti: was it intended you didn't release g-c-c 1:2.32.0-0ubuntu3?
<bcurtiswx_> didrocks, nice :)
<didrocks> (building and testing)
<rodrigo_> yay, g-s-d 2.91.2 built!
 * rodrigo_ dances
<didrocks> rodrigo_: doing the same dance right now for g-c-c :) fixing a dso linking issue, getting a new one :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, oh, g-c-c 2.91.x?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: no 2.32 right now
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: just fixing a small fix, but rebuilding with the new dso linkings rules
<rodrigo_> ok, you can dance too then :D
<didrocks> also, I'll have some patches to send upsteam for that :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: not yet, but almost!
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, ping me about them, I can commit them straight away
<rodrigo_> ...if they are ok, of course :D
<pitti> didrocks: was I supposed to?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: sure :)
<didrocks> pitti: no, you have some pending work
<pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean I committed something to the branch?
<pitti> didrocks: probably wasn't urgent
<didrocks> pitti: right
<didrocks> pitti: ok :)
<fta> pitti, 12:36:32 <fta>   pitti, hi. http://paste.ubuntu.com/529284/
<didrocks> rodrigo_: do you commit to gnome-panel as well?
<rodrigo_> didrocks, no, I have to ask for permission
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, next time then or I'll harass vuntz :)
<pitti> fta: ah, that's the weird rm bug you mentioned?
<rodrigo_> yes, it's the one to harass :)
<fta> pitti, yes
<pitti> fta: ah, I thought you meant something in the mangler; I'll have a look
<pitti> fta: can you please pastebin the output of bash -x /usr/bin/apt-changelog chromium-browsre?
<tedg> mvo, We talked at UDS about a second file that gets written when reboot is required to say that dpkg is done... what was that file?
<fta> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/529402/   (and you should really consider mktemp -d)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: doesn't apply to g-c-c trunk because of the reorganisation. So not upstreaming that one.
<didrocks> rodrigo_: it seems it doesn't link to that lib anymore
<fta> pitti, oh, you're already using mktemp.. n-m, it's confusing from the output. i'd use the default unpredictable names
<rodrigo_> didrocks, which lib?
<pitti> fta: ah, I see the problem -- $pkg gets a multi-line value
<didrocks> rodrigo_: there was no link between the keyboard capplet and libxklavier (it was using LIBGNOMEKBDUI_LIBS and not LIBGNOMEKBD_LIBS), but if I look at upstream cflags and ldflags right now for the keyboad capplet, there is no reference to any of those for linking
<rodrigo_> didrocks, hmm, it's a dep on libgnomekbd
<pitti> fta: can you please check http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/apt-changelog ?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, but you need direct linking now if you use it directly
<fta> pitti, better. Just 1 ERROR line
<rodrigo_> didrocks, does it use it directly?
<pitti> fta: the changelog isn't available yet?
<fta> pitti, the installed version is from a ppa
<fta> pitti, (it's my daily ppa, far ahead the repos)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: if gcc says so, I think it isâ¦ despite the fact I can't find an include, but I didn't spend time on that
<didrocks> rodrigo_: if it's not, it's something to report to doko
<rodrigo_> didrocks, afaik, we don'0t use it directly, let me check
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, I don't see any include
<didrocks> rodrigo_: I tried to look if we have a patch for that as well
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, we have it in configure.ac, for the region panel
<rodrigo_> (old keyboard one)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: yeah, but nothing in the code
<rodrigo_> yeah
<didrocks> rodrigo_: and it's failing during linking the keyboard capplet if I don't add it
<didrocks> rodrigo_: one sec, building without the patch to give you a pastebin
<rodrigo_> didrocks, if you don't add it where?
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: without the patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/529408/
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ok, the function is in capplets/keyboard/gnome-keyboard-properties-xkbot.c
<didrocks> xkl_config_registry_foreach_option_group seems a xkl one :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah, it's indeed missing in master also
<rodrigo_> I'll apply your patch to both
<didrocks> rodrigo_: thanks, do you want a git-format patch?
<rodrigo_> no, no need
<didrocks> yeah for no wast of time \o/
<didrocks> thanks rodrigo_ :)
<didrocks> waste*
<rodrigo_> hmm, although, why does it work just adding it to INCLUDES?=
<rodrigo_> it's failing on linking
<didrocks> rodrigo_: sorry, maybe I didn't pastebin the full patch :)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: no, there are the two
<didrocks> (if you want it separate: http://paste.ubuntu.com/529407/)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, pastebin separtately, so that I can patch it directly
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you have the include and the linking :)
<rodrigo_> ah, was missing the LDADD line, it's ok now , sorry
<didrocks> rodrigo_: it was there in http://paste.ubuntu.com/529408/ just not noticeable :)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yeah, my fault :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: well, just noticeable
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ok, pushed to 2.32 branch, will push the master fix soon, right now I've got another commit which doesn't build
<didrocks> rodrigo_: sweet, thanks
<mvo_> tedg: /var/run/reboot-required.pkgs - that should contain a list of packages that are responsible for the reboot required request
<tedg> mvo_, Okay, how do I know when that file is done being written though?
<tedg> mvo_, Or, does it only get written after dpkg is all done?
<mvo_> tedg: oh, sorry, i misunderstood. the file you are looking for is /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp - if that changes apt has finished
<tedg> mvo_, Yeah, that's what I was looking for, thanks!  Is that generic, or do I need to worry about people using apt-get and not updating that?
<mvo_> tedg: if update-notifier-common is installed (that is default for all systems) it will just work(tm)
<mvo_> tedg: the only exception is people running sudo dpkg -i directly
<mvo_> tedg: but they know what they are doing (I hope :)
<tedg> mvo_, Okay, should I depend on update-notifier-common then?
<pitti> I think checking whether the script is available and only call it if so is better
<nisshh> tedg, you around?
<and471> mpt, hi, http://imagebin.ca/img/QJcGO7J.png
<mpt> and471, wow. Is that real?
<and471> mpt, yup :)
<mpt> beautiful work
<and471> mpt, (well beautiful YOUR work) :)
<mpt> Yeah, but with most people I need to say "That shouldn't be 6px, it should be 12px" etc
<and471> mpt, well I guess after a year of SC I learned to make it perfect for mpt - or he will find it! :D
<and471> nessita, hey how are you?
<nessita> and471: pretty good! how are you?
<and471> nessita, not bad :)
<and471> nessita, I was wondering if I could ask you a question about pygtk tests :)
<nessita> and471: yes, you can. I'm always available for tests regarding tests
<and471> hehe
<and471> nessita, so I have made a new gtkcellrenderer that draws a small pin icon using cairo (seen here http://imagebin.ca/img/QJcGO7J.png) - how would I write a test for this?
<and471> (or what would I test for)
<and471> nessita, do you need the code?
<nessita> nopes
<nessita> and471: so, basically, what you want to test is that:
<nessita> * you have the proper renderer in the correct gtk tree view column
<nisshh> and471, that button looks like it was inspired by the iPhone ones :)
<and471> nisshh, shh don't tell anyone - least of all mpt ...
<nisshh> hehe
<and471> nessita, yup
<nessita> and471: so I would try to check that the column N has a renderer, that the renderer is instance of a class given
<tedg> nisshh, Yup
<nisshh> tedg, i have a question regarding this bug: ââhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/668375
<nessita> and471: and some more bits that I may figure it out by looking at the code
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 668375 in indicator-application "Allow specifying a full path to an icon, not just an icon from the theme (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nisshh> tedg, is there a work around till this API comes to fruition?
<and471> nessita, http://ubuntuone.com/p/OfS/
<tedg> nisshh, Well, you can just force a path into the space for a name.  For example, setting the name to "/usr/share/myapp/bob.png"
<nessita> and471: before looking at the code, I'll repeat myself by saying you do not need to test that GTK works, we assume that. What you need to test is that your code has the proper glue to make GTK show what you need
<and471> nessita, ok
<nisshh> tedg, ah, i didnt know i could specify a path, i thought it only worked if i specified say "bob"
<nisshh> tedg, thanks :)
<and471> mpt, sorry to bug, but any idea when you will have more on the spec related to the settings window ?
<nessita> and471: I just wonder... why doing this instead of using a pango markup such as <span foreground="red">â¬¤</span> ?
<and471> nessita, hmm, can you stroke the outline of that?
<mpt> and471, I don't know, sorry. But you could hook up the switch and text to the actual status (so it never says "OFF" and "connected to the Internet" at the same time for example).
<nessita> and471: hum, my non-nativeness on speaking english doesn't allow me to parse that sentence
<mpt> nessita, in future I hope it will be a nicer icon
<and471> mpt, cool thanks
<and471> nessita, so the edge of the circle, it can have a color?
<nessita> and471: ah, no. I didn't notice that detail
<and471> nessita, (the border of the circle)
<and471> nessita, ah ok, well then that is the reason :)
<nessita> and471: anyways, going back to your question, I would
<mpt> http://greenpreferred.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/led-lights-300x300.jpg
<nessita> and471: unittest the PinCellRenderer class by calling each method and asserting over a PinCellRenderer instance state. The key tests would be when calling on_render, you'll need several tests grouped in a test case where you test that the params passed (window, widget, background_area, cell_area, expose_area, flags) are used/modified accordingly
<and471> nessita, hmm ok, considering that I just mastered creating a cellrenderer, maybe this is not the best idea :)
<and471> mpt, we could make them flash like christmas light! :D
<mpt> We could ... but we wouldn't ;-)
<and471> hehe, maybe an easter egg? XD
<mpt> and471, yeah, focus the connection list then press Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A
<and471> :)
<seb128> re!
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> sorry was away a bit longer that I though
<rodrigo_> no problem, we could continue working, even without your direction and leadership :D
<rodrigo_> seb128, just wanted to let you know I've built g-s-d -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/ubuntu/natty/gnome-settings-daemon/2_91_2_release
<rodrigo_> seb128, do I upload it somewhere?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, the gnome3-build ppa
<rodrigo_> ah, I thought you didn't want it there
<rodrigo_> ok then, uploading in a minute
<and471> mpt, for the device view on the left, do you want to ellipsize-text or scroll view?
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you read my email from yesterday?
<seb128> rodrigo_, where I suggested using the natty part of the ppa as a work area for new components
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm fine using another ppa though if you think we should do that
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I read it, but I'm ok with using that PPA
<rodrigo_> seb128, so do I upload librest and libsocialweb also there?
<rodrigo_> oh well, I needed to fix some stuff there first
<seb128> rodrigo_, let me review those first
<rodrigo_> seb128, what about branches? should we create ~ubuntu-desktop/+junk/ branches for all?
<seb128> we don't want to have to change library names between ppa and natty
<seb128> so better to get things right
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> both librest and socialweb are based on the packages from universe
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, ~ubuntu-desktop/<component>/gtk3 or whatever
<seb128> just set the control url to match the one you use
<seb128> or gtk3 -> gnome2.91
<seb128> just pick a name ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, do I have permissions to create branches there?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-24&id=4773148f1a89cb69e186f17ec6e6fa6f741234e0
<seb128> rodrigo_, you should
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think that was your webbrowser crash
<mpt> and471, ellipsize
<and471> mpt, ok, what should about the width, of the device view? automatically size the stuff to fit or what?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, possibly
<mpt> and471, I have no opinion on that. I don't know what the standard gnome-control-center width will be.
<mpt> and471, at least wide enough to fit "Mobile Broadband" in the standard font. :-)
<and471> ok
<chrisccoulson> heh, get your crack here in a couple of hours - https://launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/+archive/ppa/+packages :)
<and471> mpt, sorry last question, ellipsize in middle or at the end?
<and471> was anyone in millbank today when the protests happened?
<seb128> and471, I don't think many people on this channel work from the office
<seb128> didrocks, I've assigned bug #645724 to you
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 645724 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Ibus applet in unity does not allow selection of menu entries by mouse. (affects: 6) (dups: 3) (heat: 36)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/645724
<seb128> didrocks, I don't have a working maverick around and I will not get to that before the weekend, if you have a chance to sponsor it in the next days please do
<didrocks> seb128: sure, pending to my list :)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> aquarius, you still around?
<pitti> good night everyone
<kenvandine> good night pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<mterry> tedg, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/indicator-applet/libpanel-applet-3/+merge/40564
<seb128> mterry, excellent ;-)
<seb128> mterry, lpi seems fine, I've added a comment which was not related to your work though
<seb128> mterry, basically would be nice to install the vapi in a non versioned vala dir so it's usuable from any vala version
<seb128> mterry, if you can do the change today or tomorrow we can probably sneak it in the next upload
<bratsche> Hey guys, is there a package that's needed for Python to be able to import gobject-introspection stuff and work?
<bratsche> We're trying to get it working on oubiwann's machine and when we try to import from the gi repository it doesn't seem to be working for him.
<nessita> bratsche: python-gobject?
<bratsche> He has the Gtk-2.0.gir and such installed.. but importing that doesn't seem to work, and searching through synaptic for Python-related gobject-introspection stuff yielded nothing interesting.
<tedg> So it seems that the natty libgtk3.0-dev package has a Gtk-3.0.gir file, but the one in the ~ubuntu-desktop PPA does not.  :-/  Anyone by chance no why that'd be?
<bratsche> nessita: Thanks, we'll try that
<oubiwann> nessita: already installed :-(
<nessita> oubiwann: that's as far as i can go with gi, sorry :-/
<dobey> oubiwann: what's failing?
<oubiwann> nessita: thanks anyway
<nessita> oubiwann: dobey just taught me that, so thanks to him :-)
<oubiwann> dobey: well, I can't successfully do from gi.repository import GTK
<bratsche> oubiwann: import Gtk
<bratsche> Not all caps
<oubiwann> yeah, sorry -- that wan't a copy and paste
<oubiwann> I get this error: RepositoryError: Typelib file for namespace 'Gtk' (any version) not found
<dobey> oubiwann: have you gir1.0-gtk-2.0 ?
 * oubiwann checks
<oubiwann> dobey: awesome!! thanks :-)
<bratsche> woot
<dobey> sure
<bratsche> Thanks dobey
<nessita> packaging question: what does this mean? other than the textual message: bzr: ERROR: Unable to find the tag for the previous upstream version, 0.0.2, in the branch: upstream-0.0.2
<dobey> tedg: re: your comment, i suspect it should probably be in a gir1.0-gtk-3.0 package or something, instead of the -dev? :)
<nessita> Do I need to tag every package I build? is that new?
<tedg> dobey, Possibly, but I thought that PPA was just supposed to be a backport of the Natty packages.  The version numbers align.
<Laney> nessita: bzr mark-uploaded does that for you
<nessita> Laney: is that new, right?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> I'm not sure what part of bzr bd requires it though
<james_w> nessita, is this the first time you have used merge-upstream on that branch?
<nessita> james_w: on this branch, yes
<Laney> oh, it's an upstream tag, nm
<nessita> james_w: I'm just creating a new packaging branch for a never-packaged project
<james_w> nessita, you need to bootstrap it then, by putting the upstream-0.0.2 tag on a revision from that upstream version
<james_w> nessita, oh, you might want the "bzr dh-make" command instead then
<dobey> nessita: not sure what you're trying to do exactly. bzr-builddeb does it automatically usually
<nessita> dobey: I'm running bzr merge-upstream
<nessita> james_w: to understand my mistake, when should I run bzr dh-make?
<dobey> nessita: yes, and you created the debian/changelog entry first, i presume
<nessita> dobey: python-mkdebian did it for me
<dobey> nessita: also, grumble because i know what you're packaging :)
<nessita> dobey: have some beer instead of grumble
<james_w> nessita, it's the "package this" command, merge-upstream is the "new upstream version of an existing package"
<dobey> nessita: right, and presumably there's a commit without the tag
<nessita> james_w: so, my scenario is trickier than that. I created the "first" package without using bzr merge-upstream but branching my project and using python-mkdebian. Now, I have a new upstream release before the package has been uploaded somewhere. I branched the former branch and ran bzr merge-upstream.
<nessita> dobey: yes, so far all my commits were without a tag. In my whole tiny period packaging, I never tagged a commit outside the upstream project
<james_w> nessita, ah, then we're back to the bootstrap thing, you need to set the "upstream-0.2.2" tag on the revision that you first ran python-mkdebian in
<james_w> bzr dh-make would have done that for you
<nessita> james_w: bzr dh-make replaces python-mkdebian? or complements it?
<james_w> nessita, complements it. bzr dh-make does the bzr stuff, then you can use python-mkdebian to create the debian directory
<nessita> james_w: understood, thanks a lot!
<james_w> nessita, bzr dh-make --bzr-only will just do the bzr stuff, and then you don't have to delete the crap that dh_make creates for you
<nessita> ack!
<nessita> I'll start fresh, my OCD won't allow me sleep otherwise :-D
<nessita> james_w: bu, bzr: ERROR: command 'dh-make' requires argument TARBALL but I have no tarball for him, since I branched upstream. I could grab the tarball I just release, but I don't see the point in that
<james_w> nessita, you have a tarball but don't want to provide it?
<nessita> james_w: I have the tarball but I don't see the point of using it since I just branched upstream's trunk to b uild the package
<james_w> nessita, right. It stashes the tarball in the branch as it works, so that other people won't have to download that tarball.
<james_w> and e.g. LP will be able to build the package at the click of a button (one day)
<nessita> james_w: ah, ok, thanks
<nessita> I see
<mterry> james_w, for pkgme, can 'depends' just return "${shlibs:Depends}" and have that be used?
<james_w> mterry, certainly
<james_w> it's exactly the sort of thing we want I think
<mterry> deal
<james_w> mterry, are you looking at a particular backend?
<mterry> james_w, yeah, I'm doing the vala backend right now
<james_w> sweet
<james_w> I should get the final bits in place so that you can test it properly
<mterry> james_w, I should have something to propose this week.  I'm sure it will be revised, but thought I'd get a sample to hit the common cases
<james_w> mterry, great, I'm keen to get people to look at as many backends as possible soon, I'm sure there are things in the design that are missing to support them all
<jasoncwarner> Ok, AU desktop team, I imagine this could be quick :)
<jasoncwarner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-09
<jasoncwarner> that is the link and notes from the previous meeting
<jasoncwarner> everyone here?
<RAOF> Aye aye!
<TheMuso> Yep.
<TheMuso> Robert is not yet online.
<jasoncwarner> Afternoon (morning for you guys)
<jasoncwarner> He mentioned he was moving ISPs, I wonder if he is offline b/c of that.
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<jasoncwarner> either way we can get started...
<jasoncwarner> you can see from the wiki above there wasn't much in the agenda to go over other than some quick status. Didier updated us on Unity (see notes) and pitti reset the cycle trackers, so we are good to go with work items
<jasoncwarner> so let me ask, is everyone all set with their work items? everything update in the BP?
<RAOF> Yup.
<TheMuso> So far so good, I prodded David about the a11y spec, but he hasn't looked/responded about it yet. Will poke him again later today when he is online.
<chrisccoulson> hi everybody on the other side of the world! :)
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: sounds good. RAOF. awesome.
<jasoncwarner> chrisccoulson: hello :)
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Hello insomniac Brit :)
<TheMuso> Hey chrisccoulson.
<chrisccoulson> lol. it's not that late here just yet. i've got a few more hours to go ;)
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: want to give a quick X Update (if anything at this point)
<RAOF> X update:  We're largely in sync with Debian at the moment.
<jasoncwarner> Ok. Anything else? If not, TheMuso, anything you would like to report?
<RAOF> None of the new code for Mesa or X has landed; we'll be taking snapshots of Mesa once things settle down a bit more, and snapshots of Xserver 1.10 once the ABI's settled and we're sure we want it.
<jasoncwarner> and, welcome robert_ancell :)
<jasoncwarner> Awesome.
<RAOF> Internode.  A fine choice :)
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Not so far, now I have recovered from my trip, I am starting to ramp up my atk research/prototyping, and playing with unity compiz.
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, hey
<jasoncwarner> TheMuso: good. I have an action to setup a meeting w/ you for next week once I land in AU :)
<TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Cool.
<robert_ancell> oh, meeting.  I thought it was yesterday
<RAOF> Oh, something notable for the Intel users: we've dropped the patch disabling pageflipping in the intel DDX.  You may recall me dropping this patch in Prague, and everyone's display freezing at regular intervals.  We're watching the bug reports :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Check your calendar... :)
<jasoncwarner> RAOF: Noted! thanks.
<jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: no worries...anything you want to update?
<robert_ancell> nothing in particular, just working through GNOME updates
<jasoncwarner> fair enough
<jasoncwarner> well then, since we didn't have much from other meeting as well, it is almost time to call the meeting :) I'll update the wiki and put the actions in there.
<jasoncwarner> Anything else?
<jasoncwarner> then.... [END MEETING] :)
<jasoncwarner> thanks guys!
<RAOF> Hm.  iotop appears to be a bit confused here.  I'm fairly sure dpkg isn't reading 75 terabytes/sec, nor is it writing 3.9 petabytes/sec.
<icek> yo, was playing with like compizconfig settings manager, and it screwed up all my graphics stuff@@@ my multiple desktops look dumb now, it disabled my extra visual effects under appearance and whenever i try to re-enable it, it just tries to and then just switches back to None.
<icek> Any advice?
<icekk> HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I installed compiz, which broke my workspace switcher... HOW DO i fix thissssss?
<virtuald> icekk: use compizconfig-settings-manager. and this channel is not for support, use #ubuntu
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-11
<icekk> hey virutald i can rotate the cube left and right, but why wont it rotate up and down?
<virtuald> i don't know
<RAOF> icekk: Because it's not a cube :)
<Amaranth> icekk: Your screen resolution is not 1:1 so it's not actually a cube, thus a desktop won't fit on the top and bottom
<icekk> Amaranth, well the cube is Dumb, I want it two dimensional
<icekk> it takes forever to run around the cube
<Amaranth> icekk: *shrug*
<latenite> Hi folks; i have fresh install of ubuntu and the nm-applet ist runing BUT dows not SHOW in taskbar. what s going on there?
<pitti> Good morning
<robert_ancell> pitti, are you there?
<pitti> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> pitti, hey, I want to make the gnome-utils/remmina changed for natty - can I modify the ubuntu-meta package directly or is there a process to follow.  And do you also need to modify the seeds?
<robert_ancell> and one more, what is the distinction between -i386 and -recommends-i386?
<pitti> robert_ancell: you only modify the seeds, ubuntu-meta is autogenerated from that
<pitti> robert_ancell: -i386 are the depends of ubuntu-desktop, the other the recommends
<pitti> robert_ancell: in the seeds, recommends are in ()
<robert_ancell> pitti, so, is there a process?
<pitti> robert_ancell: just change the seeds
<pitti> robert_ancell: and then, if you like, rebuild ubuntu-meta
<pitti> it has an "update" script, which you just run
<pitti> you need debootstrap and germinate installed
<robert_ancell> pitti, ta
<sp3ctrumIG> hi all....is there some Canonical employee? i 'd like to ask some questions.
<pitti> !ask | sp3ctrumIG
<ubot2> sp3ctrumIG: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<sp3ctrumIG> mmm...ok sry, my question is simple....what's the average preparation a good candidate must have to apply for Canonical...i mean, not the requirment asked in the job announce but the personal skills someone applying "feel" to have while applying....
<pitti> sp3ctrumIG: you should have experience in the area you are applying for, should be a FOSS enthusiast, be available full time, familiar/comfortable with working from home, and reasonably understand Canonical's mission and goals
<pitti> (shouldn't be that surprising :) )
<sp3ctrumIG> yes, sure.... :)
<sp3ctrumIG> thanks...
<sp3ctrumIG> last two: is there in Canonical some italian team member? And: Being a community active member is a plus or not?
<pitti> sp3ctrumIG: active community member is a great advantage, of course
<pitti> sp3ctrumIG: we have several folks from Italy, yes
<sp3ctrumIG> ok thanks a lot for your time and answers.
<sp3ctrumIG> :)
<pitti> sp3ctrumIG: 6 Italian folks right now
<sp3ctrumIG> wow...
<pitti> sp3ctrumIG: what are you interested in?
<sp3ctrumIG> i was looking on Planet Ubuntu as usual and i saw Jono Bacon's announce...
<wasikevin> Hi I am particularly interested in acer desktop.  Is anywhere I can find the latest Acer desktop for Ubuntu?
<sp3ctrumIG> for Sw Engineer
<pitti> wasikevin: we don't have an official Acer specific spin of Ubuntu (in fact, we don't have any vendor specific ubuntu spins at all); OEMs might ship them, of course
<wasikevin> pitti, ic
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<didrocks> pitti: hey, short question, is it python-distutils-extra that prevents applications to choose their own prefix for the public module directory? It seems normally it should respect the --prefix= (http://docs.python.org/install/index.html#how-installation-works)
<rodrigo_> any idea why I get this -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/529882/
<didrocks> rodrigo_: cdbs had a change in dh_scour call few days ago, maybe related?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: trying first using an older version of dh_scour
<didrocks> cdbs*
<rodrigo_> didrocks, maybe, but there's no call to scour at all on this package, so it's some other tool that does the call, right?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: "dh_scour
<didrocks> scour 0.25"
<pitti> didrocks: it shouldn't be; p-d-e just expands what distutils does, but it doesn't force any prefix
<didrocks> in top of your pastebin :)
<pitti> didrocks: and my own modules only query rootpath/prefix from the distutils classes
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I'll see how to fix this then (--prefix=/opt doesn't work for module for instance)
<didrocks> pitti: just to confirm it wasn't on purpose (I found nothing in distutils-extra for that, right)
<rodrigo_> didrocks, yes, I mean there's nothing scour-related in debian/* for this package, so who makes the call to that?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you pastebin your debian/rules?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: if you're using cdbs, I think it's called unconditionnaly
<rodrigo_> didrocks, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/529888/
<didrocks> rodrigo_: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk call it
<didrocks> rodrigo_: you can use DEB_DH_SCOUR_ARGS to override the args
<rodrigo_> ok
<didrocks> seems that pitti has some fun in perl those days :)
<pitti> didrocks: there was some pushback from the debian Perl maintainers
<pitti> apparently we aren't really supposed to only use perl-base :/
<pitti> I'll discuss with him
<didrocks> pitti: arghâ¦ ok
<rodrigo_> bbiab
<rodrigo_> hey pedro_
<pedro_> hello rodrigo_!
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> does anybody know if there's a new xchat-gnome release planned?
<dholbach> I'm asking because of 92038
<dholbach> (and probably other stuff that has landed upstream already)
<didrocks> hey dholbach
<didrocks> dholbach: not sure if they follow GNOME schedule or not (I'm not using it :))
<dholbach> they don't
<dholbach> check out ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/xchat-gnome :)
<didrocks> yep :)
<dholbach> Zdra, ^ do you know? :)
<Laney> i think lucidfox may do something with xchat-gnome
<Zdra> dholbach, as far as I know, x-g is unmaintained
<dholbach> boohoooooo :'-(((((
<Zdra> guess just need someone to step in and make the tarball
 * dholbach â¥ xchat-gnome
<Zdra> cassidy, do you know? ^
<cassidy> chpe did the last releases afaik
<cassidy> but I don't think he actively maintain it
<Laney> didrocks: regarding your banshee MIR ping, what needs doing now?
<dholbach> thanks cassidy, Zdra
<didrocks> Laney: well, I'm not sure the dependency list is up to date. if you can check that every dep are either in the MIR or in main, that will be nice
<dholbach> I hope somebody with an interest in it can roll a new tarball
<Laney> ok there's at least those new ones i commented
<didrocks> Laney: you added it to the MIR with the bug tasks?
<didrocks> task*
<Laney> just did that
<didrocks> nice :)
<didrocks> nothing else to do on the packaging side? all the uneeded dep have been stripped?
<Laney> afaik
<Laney> wait, no
<Laney> it's not ready to be seeded yet
<Laney> waits for mono -4 and a patch from gabriel
<didrocks> Laney: ok, can you ping me once done and we will activate the end of the MIR process + seed
<Laney> yus
<didrocks> Laney: thanks :)
<Laney> nps
<Laney> i wonder when i'm going to be discharged
<nessita> didrocks: good morning! have a few minutes?
<didrocks> nessita: good morning :) sure
<didrocks> Laney: what?
<Laney> from hospital :P
<didrocks> oh ok :)
<didrocks> Laney: hope it will be soon for you!
<nessita> didrocks: hello there! I answered myself, so thank you, but I'm glad I said hi :-)
<didrocks> nessita: nice, glad to have be so helpful :)
<ronoc> pitti, hey
<ronoc> ivanka, is otto in today ?
<didrocks> huhu, installing python application in a prefixed installation, with byte compilation and symlink is now working \o/
<ivanka> ronoc: he is
<ronoc> i have sent him a msg about an hour ago which it would if he could reply
<ronoc> *be good
<ronoc> ivanka, ^
<ivanka> ronoc: will tell him when I see him
<ronoc> ivanka, perfect thx
<ronoc> pitti, ping ?
<pitti> hello Pici
<pitti> hello ronoc
<ronoc> hey Martin
<ronoc> pitti, so I was hoping in blocking the 0.5.0 release for maverick and rolling 0.5.0.1 this afternoon
<ronoc> pitti, just a small one liner and then thats it promise
<ronoc> i wrote a comment on the bug about it
<ronoc> will file the new bug now and point the release at the bug
<pitti> ronoc: ok, sounds fine; please just make sure that the package gets built with -v, to include the current -proposed upload as well
<ronoc> pitti, okay it will probably be tomorrow since kenvandine is off
<pitti> ronoc: oh, if you want to modify the old changelog, I can also remove the current version from  -proposed altogether
<ronoc> pitti, that would probably be easiest, I won't be doing the packaging but might aswell wait for this release. Ken hopefully will do it in the morning
<pitti> I'll coordinate with him then; easier to build with -v
<ronoc> pitti, grand
<ronoc> i'll send an email to both of you with the tarball location
<ronoc> and bug attached
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<tedg> kenvandine, Did you have any idea why the Maverick GTK 3 packages in the ubuntu desktop PPA would be different than the Natty packages?
<tedg> kenvandine, They seem to be missing the gir file
<chrisccoulson> the tortoisehg plugin for nautilus is really nice!
<rodrigo_> tedg, I think there were changes before submitting to natty, so the ones in the PPA are old, AFAIK
<tedg> rodrigo_, Ah, okay.
<tedg> Hopefully an update? :)
<rodrigo_> tedg, an update to the PPA?
<tedg> rodrigo_, Yes
<rodrigo_> ah, for maverick
<pitti_> sorry, trouble with my server again, I might have lost messages
<pitti_> fta: FYI, PPA builds should now be unaffected of changelog mangling
<mpt> mvo, hi, long time no see
<mvo> hey mpt
<mvo> mpt: indeed, and I'm almost out again now (doctors appointment)
<mpt> mvo, there are a bunch of work items on <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-software-center-ui-enhancements> that aren't assigned to anyone. Could you distribute them appropriately?
<pitti_> mvo: uh, something serious?
<mvo> pitti_: I hope not (and I don't think so). but the doctor will tell
 * pitti_ hugs mvo
<mvo> mpt: sure, I check that out. so far the rule was "if no name is attached to it, the assignment goes to the implementor (gary)"
<mvo> mpt: but I will see that I pick some of his work, otherwise its a bit too much :)
<mpt> ok
<mpt> thanks
<fta> pitti_, excellent, thanks
<fta> pitti_, btw, any idea what's wrong with calibre?
<pitti_> fta: unfortunately not; it might need another rebuild
<pitti_> I've seen a new python-sip fly by, I think
 * pitti_ curses C``
<pitti_> C++, too; and the German keyboard layout I accidentally switched to :)
<fta> :)
<pitti_> fta: I'll try whether that works
<pitti_> fta: yep, that works; uploading..
<nessita> hey didrocks, would you be able to sponsor a new package? it should go universe at first so I can file the MIR
<didrocks> nessita: not today (unity release), but tomorrow morning, for sure :)
<didrocks> nessita: just give me the link for a quick review
<pitti> ronoc: I think you meant to send your mail to the other Ken? :-)
<pitti> hey nessita
<nessita> didrocks: lp:~nataliabidart/ubuntuone-control-panel/natty-release
<nessita> hey pitti! how are you?
<didrocks> nessita: thanks!
<nessita> didrocks: thank you!
<pitti> nessita: splendid, thanks! how about you?
<nessita> pitti: pretty good :-)
<nessita> pitti: are you still sru team member?
 * pitti suppresses the urge to cry "NOOOO"
<pitti> nessita: yes, I am :)
<didrocks> he is ^
<didrocks> :)
<nessita> pitti: I have a few SRU for ussoc with no further news, shall I be worry?
<pitti> nessita: worried about what?
<nessita> pitti: not being approved, for example. The package that solves those is still in the unapproved queue
<pitti> nessita: I just ran out of time yesterday
<rodrigo_> bff, g-c-c 2.91.2 took a lot of sweating
<pitti> after the freeze there were a ton of upgrades
<rodrigo_> just one thing left, which is a conflict with g-s-d
<pitti> rodrigo_: ooh, you are packaging g-c-c 3?
<pitti> are we going to use that in natty then?
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<nessita> pitti: ok, no problem. If you say that you'll get there, I blindly believe you.
<pitti> \o/
<rodrigo_> pitti, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntugtk3
<rodrigo_> pitti, we don't know yet, itÂ¡'ll be in the PPA for now
<rodrigo_> uploading to the PPA as soon as I solve the conflict
<ronoc> pitti, whoops - resending
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, g-s-d has Conflicts: gnome-control-center (<< 1:2.21.5)
<rodrigo_> pitti, can I safely change that 1:.. to << 2.91.2 ?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I don't think that'd be appropriate
<pitti> rodrigo_: usually we use conflicts for moved files
<rodrigo_> pitti, so, how do I remvoe the conflict (for g-s-d 2.91.2)
<pitti> rodrigo_: so if the new g-c-c can't be used with the old g-s-d, then g-c-c needs to Breaks: g-s-d (<< 2.91)
<pitti> rodrigo_: sorry, 1:2.91 of course
<pitti> (can't get rid of the epoch)
<rodrigo_> pitti, and so I add that to g-c-c and remove the Conflicts in g-s-d?
<pitti> rodrigo_: there's no hurry removing the conflicts in g-s-d
<pitti> rodrigo_: it can go, since that was only required for upgrades from dapper
<rodrigo_> pitti, no, just want to have it ok for easy installation for ckpringle, who is been waiting on packages to test the new g-c-c
<pitti> but it's independent
<rodrigo_> but I can tell him to install with dpkg --force-conflicts
<pitti> rodrigo_: 2.21 is ancient, so the conflicts shouldn't actually do anything
<pitti> rodrigo_: seems we have a major misunderstaning; why do you think this ancient conflicts matters?
<pitti> 2.1 << 2.91
<pitti> 2.21 << 2.91, I mean
<rodrigo_> pitti, I don't think it matters, it's just in the g-s-d package, and so when installing g-c-c 2.91.2 I get a conflict
<rodrigo_> had to install it by hand with --foce-conflicts
<pitti> rodrigo_: aah
<pitti> rodrigo_: seems you dropped the epoch?
<pitti> you can't, I'ma fraid
<rodrigo_> no, I didn't
<pitti> Conflicts: gnome-control-center (<< 1:2.21.5) means that you can't co-install it with any version less than that, but it's fine with any newer version
<pitti> and 1:2.91 is definitively later than 1:2.21
<pitti> unless you dropped the epoch
<rodrigo_> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntugtk3/annotate/head%3A/debian/control line 54
<rodrigo_> oh, I removed the epoch from the changelog, right
<pitti> no, the epoch in g-c-c 3
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-control-center/ubuntugtk3/annotate/head%3A/debian/changelog
<pitti> yep
<rodrigo_> yeah, sorry
<rodrigo_> my fault
<rodrigo_> so making that 1:2.91.2 should fix it then
<pitti> right
<pitti> no problem :)
<rodrigo_> ok
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: What about those two bugs you filed to update packages in Ubuntu?
<pitti> just too me a while to understand what you were asking
<rodrigo_> pitti, yeah, sorry :)
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, still waiting on an answer (librest and libsocialweb, right?)
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: yes
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, so yes, waiting for responses on the bugs
<rodrigo_> I'll dput them to the PPA though
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: I might look at it tomorrow
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, at the bugs?
<bilalakhtar> rodrigo_: yup
<rodrigo_> bilalakhtar, ok, cool, those 2 branches really need review, I had to do an ugly hack, so I've done something wrong for sure :)
<fta> didrocks, hey, i don't think there's anything i can do for the chromium icon on unity. i provide clean icons in different sizes already, incl svg.
<didrocks> fta: ok, that's weird as we try the approaching size of the icon, we'll see later in the release I guess
<fta> didrocks, maybe you're using the wrong one
<didrocks> fta: well, it's the same for every icons
<tremolux> hello pitti!  \o
<pitti> hey tremolux
<tremolux> pitti: I have wondered this - am I supposed to set the verification-done tag for the tzdata bug?
<tremolux> pitti: I was assuming I was supposed to let someone else set that after I report that I tested
<tremolux> bug 672808
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 672808 in tzdata (Ubuntu Karmic) (and 6 other projects) "2010o available (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672808
<pitti> tremolux: please feel free to set it yourself
<tremolux> pitti: ok, thanks
<pitti> rodrigo_, didrocks: do you know whether it would be okay for me to update to libnotify 0.7, which uses libgtk3 (and also bumps ABI)?
<didrocks> pitti: woudln't that mean that every apps using libnotify will have to switch to gtk3 as well?
<didrocks> pitti: I think we discussed at UDS about issues with linking against both gtk2 and gtk3
<pitti> oh, hang on -- it seems it doesn't actually link against gtk3
<pitti> just glib
<pitti> but it would require rebuilding all the reverse dependencies
<didrocks> that's nicer then :)
<didrocks> because of the ABI break, isn't it?
<pitti> but there's already stuff that requires the newer notify
<pitti> didrocks: yes
<pitti> I need to update packagekit-gnome
<pitti> since that still uses the obsolete libdevkit-power, which is NBS
<didrocks> well, in any case, we will probably rebuild everything for that
<pitti> I could try using packagekit-gnome 2.32 instead of 2.91
<pitti> but I thought we'd rather go to gtk3 stuff if we can?
<didrocks> pitti: for applications, we decided to get there late on the cycle and switch on a application per application bases
<pitti> didrocks: right; I think packagekit-gnome should be okay?
<didrocks> pitti: sounds good (to me)
<rodrigo_> pitti, there's an API break in new libnotify afaik
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes, new soname (0->4)
<rodrigo_> pitti, upload it to the PPA for now, if you want
<pitti> rodrigo_: we could alternatively upload it as a new source libnotify4
<pitti> so that we have both APIs/ABIs in parallel for a while?
<rodrigo_> yes
<pitti> rodrigo_: which PPA?
<rodrigo_> not sure if the upstream source is parallel-installable though
<rodrigo_> I hope so
<pitti> libnotify1 and libnotify4 will
<pitti> for -dev, I'd have to improvise
<pitti> but that's not strictly required
<rodrigo_> :)
<rodrigo_> is the .pc file versioned?
<pitti> no, and it shouldn't be
<pitti> the two -dev packages shouldn't be coinstallable
<pitti> or, at least, don't need to
<rodrigo_> well, apps linking to one or the other need to choose one
<rodrigo_> the API is different
<pitti> right
<pitti> so they'd b-dep on libnotify-dev (old) or libnotify4-dev (new)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<pitti> it's a pain, though, to keep two versions
<pitti> but I guess we should as long as we still have stuff which links against the old one
<vish> njpatel / bratsche: hi.. when is the resize grip going to land in Natty? we were considering running it as a milestone for papercuts and fix apps which dont have a resize grip
<vish> rather identify apps.. ;)
<njpatel> vish, I'm not too sure, and bratsche is probably on  holiday today :)
<njpatel> vish, can you ping again tomorrow? I think latest is by A1
<vish> njpatel: sure will do, thanks.. :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: would you happen to know whether we have a package which satisfies
<pitti> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(CONTROL_CENTER, [
<pitti>  libgnome-control-center >= 2.31.4])
<pitti> ?
<pitti> rodrigo_: our gnome-control-center-dev only has gnome-default-applications.pc and gnome-keybindings.pc
<fta> anyone's interested by chromium & gtk theme integration? it's moving: http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev/browse_thread/thread/eaf3923ca175bd34#
<pitti> rodrigo_: hm,m it also needs #include <libgnome-control-center/cc-panel.h>; so perhaps this is all stuff from g-c-c 3
<rodrigo_> pitti, right, but the new one has a lib and a header file
<pitti> ah, good
 * pitti goes with packagekit-gnome 2.32 for now, then
<rodrigo_> pitti, what app was that?
<pitti> rodrigo_: packagekit-gnome
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<pitti> 2.91.2
<rodrigo_> then yes, it's a panel for new g-c-c
<rodrigo_> btw, gsettings-desktop-schemas is now in natty, right?
<pitti> $ rmadison gsettings-desktop-schemas
<pitti> gsettings-desktop-schemas | 0.1.0-0ubuntu1 |         natty | source, all
<rodrigo_> right, so why is g-s-d on the ppa failing because of missing that -> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds/+build/2040867 ?
<rodrigo_> it doesn't even complain about it having that in the Build-deps, but doesn't install it
<pitti> rodrigo_: you need to b-dep on gsettings-desktop-schemas-dev
<pitti> to get the .pc
<rodrigo_> hmm, it's already there
<pitti> it's nowhere in the build log
<rodrigo_> gsettings-desktop-schemas-dev
<rodrigo_> in the control file
<rodrigo_> maybe I uploaded a wrong one?
<pitti> rodrigo_: perhaps you changed control, not control.in?
<pitti> common trap to fall into
<rodrigo_> oh, maybe
<bcurtiswx__> would the changelog for network manager tell me if its supposed to be getting removed
<bcurtiswx__> or replaced
<rodrigo_> pitti, right, that was it, thanks again :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: so, which PPA should I upload libnotify4 to?
<rodrigo_> pitti, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/gnome3-builds
<pitti> ah, cool, thanks
<pitti> libnotify4 (0.7.0-0ubuntu1~build1) natty; urgency=low
<pitti> like this? with ~build1, so that it's smaller than the final upload to natty?
<rodrigo_> as you want, I was first using ~ppa*, but robert used the real version #, so I changed to just use the real one
<pitti> ~ppa1 sounds fine
<rodrigo_> pitti, btw, just in case so that we don't step on each other, g-screensaver is next on my list
<pitti> rodrigo_: oh, I won't continue today
<pitti> rodrigo_: I mainly did that to get rid of libdevkit-power
<pitti> which is done now
<rodrigo_> pitti, me neither, going out now :)
<pitti> ...ish (as soon as I upload PK-gnome)
<rodrigo_> ah, ok
<rodrigo_> ok, new g-s-d uploaded, hopefully it builds on the ppa now
<rodrigo_> so now out for some fresh air, later all :)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, today I again don't have any composite in compiz, btw
<pitti> didrocks: so this seems reproducible
<pitti> only after compiz --replace
<didrocks> pitti: hum, that's ugly :/ and without compiz --replace, it restarts it?
<didrocks> humâ¦
<pitti> hm, actually
<pitti> didrocks: I noticed that my usual key bindings worked all day
<pitti> so perhaps it really did start metacity
<pitti> now not even alt+f2 works
<didrocks> pitti: what do you have as the default in gconf?
<didrocks> (oh right about alt + f2)
<pitti> didrocks: confirmed, I rebooted my computer, and I get metacity by default
<pitti>     /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager:
<pitti>      default = /usr/bin/compiz
<pitti>      current = /usr/bin/compiz
<pitti> nothing interesting in .xsession-errors
<didrocks> pitti: and /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager ?
<pitti>      windowmanager = metacity
<didrocks> ahah :)
<didrocks> and that's the key which is taken into account
<pitti> what about the other two?
<pitti> they are obsolete?
<didrocks> the two other are taken into account only if windowmanager = gnomewm
<pitti> I didn't touch that, but it could have been changed yesterday with the failed upgrade
<didrocks> which is utterly broken because we override that in the appearance capplet and change this primary key
<pitti> gconftool -R /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager
<pitti> still metacity
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, and you are the second, I have to find why it changed for you
<pitti> it's the schema default apparently?
<didrocks> pitti: probably, but we ovveride with gnomewm normally
<pitti> hm, gnome-session.schemas has it as "gnome-wm"
<pitti> defaults/10_gnome-session-bin:/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager gnome-wm
<pitti> and some bits in une/
<pitti> didrocks: ah, I used -u (previously -R)
<pitti> now it's "gnome-wm"
 * pitti logs out again and checks
<didrocks> pitti: ok, should be good with gnome-wm
<pitti> didrocks: ok, confirmed
<pitti> didrocks: gnome-wm gives me compiz
<pitti> but not having any keybinding sucks a lot, so I set it back to metacity now
<didrocks> pitti: ok, the question is why it changed to metacity on the upgrade
<didrocks> pitti: and you confirm that using g-c-c change this key between metacity and compiz, isn't it?
<pitti> I guess it sohuld
<pitti> I think I tried the appearance applet yesterday
<pitti> but it's currently totally broken
<pitti> (I think you mentioned that)
<didrocks> pitti: I've fixed it
<pitti> it said "no effects" when I had compiz running
<pitti> so I used gconftool
<didrocks> pitti: which version of g-c-c?
<pitti> 1:2.32.0-0ubuntu3
<didrocks> hum really? let me checkâ¦
<didrocks> ah, the detection is broken, but this time, if you click on "normal", it's switching and kept like this, right?
<didrocks> (this was broken previously)
<pitti> didrocks: confirmed, works
<didrocks> pitti: ok, but I still find the "gnome-wm" thing broken as we change by the capplet and can never be back at the other behavior, it sounds suboptimal
<pitti> didrocks: is it gnome-wm which does the expensive detection?
<didrocks> pitti: exactly
<didrocks> pitti: but the first time you click on the capplet, it won't be used anymore
<didrocks> so, it's a big machine gun for not a lot of benefits :)
<pitti> didrocks: well, with unity this entire thing becomes mostly obsolete anyway, no?
<pitti> it won't make sense in unity (as we need compiz), and with only 2D you won't need it in GNOME either
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, what I want to do is to make a compiz plugin (first plugin loaded) which makes that detection
<pitti> so you'd only need it if you deliberately run GNOME and want metacity
<didrocks> right, there are 3 levels:
<didrocks> - compiz + unity
<didrocks> - compiz only (with gnome-panel)
<didrocks> - metacity (with gnome-panel)
<didrocks> so, the plugin will decide that IMHO
<didrocks> then, if people wants another wm, they will have something which change the gconf key
 * pitti waves good night
<didrocks> good night pitti
<fta> (i run gnome with metacity.. and i feel unsafe with the current changes)
<fta> (.. as unity was a disaster for me on my netbook)
<ari-tczew> does merge/sync compizconfig-backend-kconfig from Debian makes sense?
<cyphermox> kenvandine, still there?
<bcurtiswx> should I not be removing compiz with the current natty dist-upgrade?
<chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, no ;)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is there a way I can list all the atoms in the X server?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: xlsatoms seems a good bet :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, nice :)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hmm, I want the get the TTY the xserver is running - I think it's one of the atoms - how do I get all their values?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Dunno off the top of my head, sorry.
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-12
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! Slept quite long :/
<didrocks> pitti: it means that you needed it :)
<pitti> didrocks: an old friend of mine visited me yesterday, and we talked until 0:30
<didrocks> pitti: ok, that explains it then!
 * didrocks asked for a rebuild of libcompizconfig at 0:30 yesterday :)
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> (epic battle with cmake which decides "ohhh no glib-2.0.pc"? Let's give it a chanceâ¦ But I'll forget all the other CFLAGS just for you!)
<kklimonda> didrocks: with autotools you wouldn't have this problem! ;)
<kklimonda> good morning
<didrocks> I scratches my head to see why -I<blablabl> beetwen the first and second build (without any change) disappeared
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<kklimonda> hey rodrigo_ :)
<didrocks> kklimonda: I know, tell that to upstream :)
<kklimonda> oh, nice - I've just somehow managed to link my application against both gtk+ 2.0 and 3.0..
<rodrigo_> kklimonda, heh, and no crashes?
<kklimonda> rodrigo_: it didn't even start ;)
<rodrigo_> :)
<kklimonda> it prints a nice error message and quits..
<didrocks> pitti: did you try to enable "gnomecompat" extension in ccsm?
<didrocks> pitti: just to know if it pulls all your shortcuts :)
<pitti> didrocks: should I? I never really used ccsm or changed compiz effects/plugins
<didrocks> pitti: I'll change the default if you confirm it works
<pitti> didrocks: is that the simple-ccsm package?
<pitti> or compizconfig-settings-manager?
<didrocks> pitti: no, compizconfig-settings-manager
<pitti> didrocks: do I need to run compiz while using ccsm?
<didrocks> simple-ccsm, we should maybe remove it, it's not ported to 0.9, will see
<didrocks> pitti: no, you don't need to
<pitti> didrocks: say the word, and I'll kill it :)
<didrocks> pitti: let's wait for next week (unity release unity release unity releaseâ¦) so that I can search over the compiz forum to see if something is working on porting it
<pitti> ok, activated, starting compiz
<didrocks> (alt + F2 at least, should work)
<pitti> didrocks: Alt+F2 works again, but none of the others, like ctrl+alt+2 to switch workspaces, or Ctrl+Alt+T for terminal
<didrocks> pitti: ok, that was my gut feeling
<didrocks> ctrl + alt + T?
<didrocks> it's working there
<didrocks> oh no, it's not
 * didrocks shouldn't fallback to metacity because of nvidia :)
<mvo> hey didrocks - i noticed you work on the gsetting conversion for update-notifier, is there a eta? I want to do a upload soonish and it would be nice to coordindate
<didrocks> mvo: I think I'll have some time next week to work on that, is that ok with you (like eta eow)?
<didrocks> mvo: sorry, but compiz + unity delayed a lot my others tasks :)
<mvo> didrocks: no worries, just wanted to ensure that we don't stomp each others foots
<mvo> didrocks: again, no problem :)
<mvo> didrocks: I have some vague memories that compiz can do this to people ;)
 * mvo hugs didrocks
 * didrocks hugs mvo
<didrocks> mvo: after that, you're never the same, isn't it? :)
<pitti> hey mvo, good morning; feeling better?
<mvo> pitti: yeah, I got some medicine now (the paper says a sideeffect of taking it might be  euphoria  - I look forward to this ;)
<pitti> lol
<didrocks> mvo: take care :)
<mvo> thanks didrocks
<ronoc> bl8: ping ping
<panaggio> yerterday I've added ubuntu-desktop ppa to my sources.list and after that compiz started giving me some headaches I have not expected
<panaggio> now I've been trying to triage all the packages installed, so that I can go back to my old configuration, but I couldn't manage it yet =(
<panaggio> I already have the "old" compiz, compiz-core, compiz-fusion-pligins-main and compiz-fusion-plugins-extra
<panaggio> but I just can't figure out which other packages I have to reinstall =(
<didrocks> panaggio: look at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+packages if you click on the package arrows, you will see the binary package list
<didrocks> panaggio: and keep in mind that ppa are not officially supported :)
<panaggio> I know :) I just like to test things and report bugs when possible
<didrocks> panaggio: did you report bugs on compiz?
<panaggio> but my desktop got kinda useless after I've tried to get things right =(
<didrocks> panaggio: I see that the ppa is working for some people :)
<didrocks> weird
<panaggio> not yet
<panaggio> I broke everything in here. That's not ppa's fault =P
<didrocks> panaggio: oh ok
<panaggio> it seems I've missed libdecoration. Restarting to see if it was just this one
<panaggio> omg. It wasn't even necessary :D
<nessita> good morning crowd!
<nessita> hey didrocks, were you able to take a look to the new package I linked yesterday?
<didrocks> nessita: I don't have access to your branch
<didrocks> nessita: hey :)
<nessita> didrocks: oh
<nessita> didrocks: how can I make it public?
<didrocks> nessita: I have no idea about how launchpad is dealing with private branch TBH
<didrocks> nessita: maybe ask on #launchpad ?
<nessita> right
<panaggio> didrocks: thanks for the help! :)
<didrocks> panaggio: yw :)
<nessita> didrocks: I'm not getting any answer yet, so in the mean time I'll push to lp:~nataliabidart/+junk/ubuntuone-control-panel_natty-release
<nessita> didrocks: can you access that one?
<didrocks> nessita: yes, I can access that one. I will do the review once we push unity to the ppa
<didrocks> nessita: but it can take more time than expected, so maybe Monday at the latest :)
<didrocks> sorry for the delay
<nessita> didrocks: no rush, I need to run some errands
<nessita> didrocks: thanks a lot!
<didrocks> nessita: you're welcome!
<chrisccoulson> no seb128 today?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: nothing on the holiday calendar - perhaps a yet unapproved swap day
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. i'm having a bit of difficulty with my nearly-gconf-free firefox, and i think it's because of shared-mime-info
<mterry> pitti, if seb128 is out, could you mayhaps upload https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/launchpad-integration/gtk3/+merge/40486 for me?
<mterry> rodrigo_, I looked at libsocial and the .27 tarball has gtk-doc.make in the toplevel.  Are you working from git?
<rodrigo_> mterry, no, a tarball, but I took the package from universe, which was getting the code from git, so maybe I left something
<mterry> rodrigo_, http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/libsocialweb/0.25/  -- has gtk-doc.make in it
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes
<rodrigo_> mterry, can you have a look at the debian/rules, to see if there's some get-from-git leftover?
 * mterry looks
<mterry> rodrigo_, there's certainly a get-orig-source target in the universe debian/rules...
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes, I removed that
<mterry> rodrigo_, and your tarball has gtk-doc.make in it?
<rodrigo_> hmm, I think so, got it from http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/libsocialweb/0.25/, but let me recheck
<didrocks> pitti: he is having a swap day, right
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes, it does
<mterry> rodrigo_, so something is deleting it?  (unless it's in the toplevel and you're *still* getting the error)
<mterry> rodrigo_, if it's been deleted, I'd start over with a fresh untarring and copy the debian directory over
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> mterry, hmm, in fact, build-area/libsocial...../ also has no configure, so dh_auto_clean is removing them?
<mterry> rodrigo_, possibly, but if you're starting from a tarball, you actually probably don't need to autoreconf, do you?  was there a specific reason to do so (i know you had to when it was a git tarball...)
<rodrigo_> mterry, no, just because the configure was removed, it seems by dh_auto_clean
<rodrigo_> ok, so I'll clean all those rules
<mterry> rodrigo_, dh_auto_clean may have cleaned it via dh_autoreconf_clean if you had that rule going
<rodrigo_> possibly, yes
<rodrigo_> mterry, ah, there's a debian/clean file, listing all stuff to clean
<mterry> rodrigo_, oh!  Huh.
<mterry> rodrigo_, including gtk-doc.make  :)
<mterry> rodrigo_, that whole file can be dropped.  It's a manual version of dh_autoreconf_clean (which you aren't even using now)
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> mterry, ok, but there's still a patch that touches configure.ac, so what should I do?
<mterry> rodrigo_, oh there is?  then use dh-autoreconf
<mterry> rodrigo_, but you still don't want that debian/clean file
<rodrigo_> in which rule?
<mterry> rodrigo_, you converted it to dh7, right?  then use dh --with autoreconf $@ in the main rule
<rodrigo_> yeah, removed debian/clean
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> aclocal: couldn't open directory `m4': No such file or directory
<rodrigo_> mterry, without the --with asutoreconf it works
<mterry> rodrigo_, guh, bad upstream package
<mterry> rodrigo_, is the configure.ac patch intrusive?  It could just patch configure directly if it's a small change
<mterry> hmm, yeah, it would probably expand to a lot of code in configure that you'd have to add in.  not impossible, but less clean
<rodrigo_> not much -> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/530682/
<rodrigo_> but yeah, it expands to a lot of code
<mterry> rodrigo_, what if...  you put the following near the top of debian/rules:
<mterry> export ACLOCAL = true
<mterry> to skip it...
<rodrigo_> ok, trying
<rodrigo_> it complains about the invalid argument the patch adds
<rodrigo_> ok, what I'm going to do is to prepare the patch for upstream
<mterry> rodrigo_, invalid argument?
<rodrigo_> yes, the patch adds a new configure argument, and debian/rules uses it, so ./confiogure complains about it not being valid
<mterry> rodrigo_, interesting.  so sounds like configure didn't get regenerated...
<rodrigo_> yes
<mterry> I wouldn't think ACLOCAL would skip that
<mterry> rodrigo_, i wonder if you couldn't just 'mkdir m4' in debian/rules
<mterry> rodrigo_, if it's a simple error-check for the existence of the directory
<mterry> like in override_dh_auto_configure or something
<rodrigo_> no, same thing
<rodrigo_> but I'm looking at the patch, and really not sure we need it
<mterry> it says m4 directory doesn't exist?
<rodrigo_> mterry, no, wrong argument to configure
<mterry> (you should get rid of the ACLOCAL = true bit)
<mterry> that was just to skip aclocal, but hopefully the m4 directory existing will also let aclocal continue
<rodrigo_> yes, done
<rodrigo_> all works if I enable the ./autogen.sh bit
<didrocks> pitti: do you have some time for a puzzling build issue?
<mterry> rodrigo_, dh-autoreconf wasn't enough?
<rodrigo_> hmm
<mterry> rodrigo_, because their tarball doesn't even have an autogen.sh
<pitti> didrocks: re; what's up?
<didrocks> pitti: njpatel and I are fighting for quite some time on the FTBFS on Nux in the ppa
<didrocks> pitti: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/59036593/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.nux_0.9.2-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<didrocks> (look for re/NSystemGNU.h:37:18: fatal error: glib.h: No such file or directory)
<didrocks> pitti: obviously, it misses  -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include
<pitti> didrocks: because of the missing -Is?
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> however NuxGraphics/Makefile.am has the right cflags
<didrocks> and it's working fine locally
<pitti> hm, nux doesn't even seem to exist, is that a PPA?
<didrocks> also, libglib*-dev is included as you can see in the previous lines
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's a new toolkit for unity
<didrocks> pitti: lp:~unity-team/nux/packaging
<didrocks> pitti: I checked on the local build, and I have the -Iâ¦ njpatel too
<didrocks> (NUX_GRAPHICS_CFLAGS is the flag you are looking for)
<didrocks> and in PKG_CHECK_MODULES, it has glib-2.0
<pitti> didrocks: did you check building the actually uploaded source, or just from the branch?
<didrocks> pitti: I tried dpkg-source -x .dsc and build it, right
<didrocks> and it worked as well :/
<pitti> building here; for some reason it ignores -j4
<didrocks> weirdâ¦ I don't think last time I checked the source there was something for that
<Sir_Konrad> can I install Compiz on Unity now? :P
<didrocks> Sir_Konrad: will depend when we get nux building, see ^
<Sir_Konrad> didrocks, the topic?
<pitti> didrocks: the Makefile.am looks a bit strange to me, but I'll let this build first
<didrocks> Sir_Konrad: no, I ignore the join/quit, so not sure if you followed the conversation
<pitti> libnux_graphics_@NUX_API_VERSION@_la_SOURCES = \
<Sir_Konrad> didrocks, yeah I just joined about 15 seconds ago.
<pitti>   $(source_cpp) \
<pitti>   $(source_h)
<pitti> ah, I missed that one
<pitti> didrocks: hm, indeed it builds fine here as well
<didrocks> pitti: and we are building a .ccp, so it's not an issue with CPPFLAGS
<didrocks> pitti: I've updated and tried to build as well (even if I didn't see anything which can be interfering from yesterday)
<didrocks> and it built :/
<didrocks> pitti: you tried the package as well, not the bzr branch?
<pitti> didrocks: building from branch
<pitti> I don't know where the .dsc is :)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, but in any case, I still have the terminal opened with the build from .dsc
<didrocks> can still have a try to confirm I'm not crazy (or just a little bit)
<didrocks> ok, even erasing my dsc there and taking them from the ppa :)
<didrocks> let's ensure I get everything like the ppa
<pitti> ./NuxGraphics/Makefile:NUX_GRAPHICS_CFLAGS = -pthread -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 -I/usr/include/libpng12
<pitti> looks fine to me
<didrocks> yeah, that's what I checked too :/
<pitti> didrocks: did you try rebuilding this?
<didrocks> pitti: "this"?
<pitti> just to rule out a silly glitch somewhere?
<pitti> didrocks: the PPA build
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I tried 20 minutes ago
<didrocks> pitti: first build was at 11AM
<didrocks> and it failed in both i386 and amd64
<didrocks> I just try rebuilding on i386 though, but wellâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: hm, perhaps a pbuilder is in order then
<pitti> for reproducing the issue
<pitti> it's obviously not helpful to stare at local Makefiles which work
<didrocks> my pbuilder was broken the other day, but I can see if pbuilder update works today
<pitti> I see no autoreconfiscation in the log
<didrocks> no, we don't do that :)
<didrocks> most of the time, I patch upstream and make a new tarball, much easier and less error-prone
<didrocks> (for unity & co)
<pitti> and the MAINTAINER_CFLAGS are present as well, so it's not a shortcut in the substitution
<pitti> $(NUX_GRAPHICS_CFLAGS) is just empty
<pitti> didrocks: right, but sometimes it happens when you have weird time stamps, and you b-dep on autotools-dev
<didrocks> waiting the end of the local build with .dsc and *tar redowloaded and thenâ¦ will try pbuilder
<didrocks> pitti: oh right, but I think I tweaked MAINTAINER_CFLAGS to do the right thing there
<pitti> didrocks: configure.ac has PKG_CHECK_MODULES ... xxf86vm
<pitti> didrocks: but /usr/lib/pkgconfig/xxf86vm.pc has Name: Xxf86vm
<pitti> I suppose that's not the reason?
<didrocks> pitti: hum, maybe that can infer to it
<didrocks> pitti: do you remembered I blame CMake this morning?
<didrocks> blamed*
<pitti> no, I didn't see that
<pitti> didrocks: configure.ac looks fine otherwise, the various NUX_* substitutions all look the smae
<pitti> didrocks: just that the thing that's different from NUX_GRAPHICS is this xxf86vm thingy
<didrocks> one sec, l2010-11-12 09:55:53     didrocks        (epic battle with cmake which decides "o
<didrocks> hhh no glib-2.0.pc"? Let's give it a chanceâ¦ But I'll forget all the other CFLAG
<didrocks> S just for you!)
<didrocks> maybe it's related to that ^
<didrocks> like "I can't find one, let's forget the CFLAGS"
<pitti> didrocks: oh, nux -> c'est la cmake?
<pitti> I don't see a cmake file anywhere
<didrocks> pitti: no, but it looks it's the same symptom
<didrocks> I was blaming CMake, but the cause is maybe something else
<rodrigo_> mterry, yay, seems to work
<didrocks> like pkgconfig or whatever
<pitti> didrocks: so, I have no idea about this I'm afraid; perhaps just try a build with using Xxf86vm?
<mterry> rodrigo_, yay!
<rodrigo_> mterry, mkdir'in the m4 dir though
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I'll try that and push it there
<mterry> rodrigo_, eh, that's a forgivable grossness, as it *should* be in upstream tarball
<pitti> didrocks: let me know if you need score bumping or so
<didrocks> pitti: sure, one sec :)
<rodrigo_> mterry, yes
<didrocks> pitti: it's already building, no need to score then :)
 * rodrigo_ -> lunch
<didrocks> pitti: it failedâ¦ but in any case: libxxf86vm-dev: /usr/lib/pkgconfig/xxf86vm.pc
<didrocks> (I should have checked before)
<pitti> didrocks: yes, but the "Name:" in the file is capitalized
<kenvandine> pitti, didrocks: can one of you sponsor lp:~ken-vandine/ubuntu/maverick/x264/maverick-proposed
<kenvandine> i had asked seb128 back when i pushed this... but i guess he forgot :)
<kenvandine> didrocks, i suspect you are busy :)
<pitti> kenvandine: can do
<kenvandine> pitti, thx
<didrocks> pitti: right, but configure fails with the capital letter
<pitti> didrocks: oh, interesting; so perhaps it doesn't like the inconsistency there
<Sarvatt> PKG_CHECK_MODULES should look for lowercase, and it should add -lXxf86vm from that
<didrocks> pitti: but why only on buildd and not locally?
<pitti> didrocks: NFC :(
<geser> need all panel applets need porting to libpanel-applet-3-0 to show up on the panel again?
<didrocks> pitti: do you get your pbuilder working? it's still broken here
<didrocks> I have a bunch of: ind: File system loop detected; `./proc/1/task/1/cwd/sys/devices/platform/reg-dummy/subsystem/devices/i8042/serio0/subsystem/devices/serio1/input/input8/subsystem/input0/device/subsystem/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/device:00/PNP0A03:00/device:01/physical_node/sub
<pitti> didrocks: I don't have a pbuilder
<didrocks> I have that only for natty, my maverick pbuilder is working fineâ¦
<njpatel> didrocks, pitti is it possible to get the build dir off LP where the build failed?
<njpatel> didrocks, pitti I think inspecting the produced makefiles is the only way to figure out that's going on
<didrocks> getting the Makefile on it can be useful
<didrocks> njpatel: we checked the local one is ok, but yeah, getting the one on the buildd will be helpful, maybe
<pitti> njpatel: certainly; but that needs lamont
<njpatel> makefile and the configure
<pitti> njpatel: I agree
<didrocks> ok, I'm trying to recreate a natty pbuilder, the maverick one worked thereâ¦
<didrocks> oh oh, can reproduce \o/
<didrocks> NUX_GRAPHICS_CFLAGS =
<didrocks> NUX_GRAPHICS_LIBS = -pthread -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lm -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lpng12 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lglib-2.0 -lGL -lGLEW -lGLEWmx -lXxf86vm
<didrocks> what's theâ¦ !!!
<njpatel> didrocks, wow
<didrocks> in every Makefile, btw
<didrocks> all the other CFLAGS is ok
<njpatel> how the hell can that happen?
<didrocks> so, there is a missing dep that empty the CFLAGS
<pitti> didrocks: pkg-config failure theN?
<didrocks> pitti: seems that
<njpatel> pitti, that's what I thought, but it would happen on normal natty too?
<didrocks> let me try pkg-config on that manually in the chroot
<njpatel> didrocks, missing depend causing it?
<didrocks> njpatel: if that's a missing .pc dep, maybe not
<njpatel> right
<didrocks> same idea :)
<didrocks> njpatel: but not direct one, one from an install -dev package
<didrocks> njpatel: I check nux build-dep, all is correct
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/530720/ \o/
<didrocks> pitti: njpatel ^^
<didrocks> so missing dep on libgl*-dev it seems
<Sarvatt> didrocks: libxext?
<kenvandine> pitti, also... just a reminder, please don't forget the gwibber maverick SRU
<Sarvatt> oh beat me to it
<didrocks> I install libxext-dev in the chroot and try to rebuild
<njpatel> didrocks, oh god :)
<didrocks> njpatel: not his fault for that :)
<didrocks> NuxGraphics/Makefile:NUX_GRAPHICS_CFLAGS = -pthread -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/gdk-pixbuf-2.0 -I/usr/include/libpng12
<didrocks> sounds better :)
<njpatel> yes!
<didrocks> Sarvatt: you mean, libxext missing dep is already known?
<mvo> didrocks: hey, a quick quesiton/bugreport. it appears that if oneconf is instaled on s-c launch people will get a "please log into u1" dialog. can we make this a bit more subtle?
<bcurtiswx> test: System-->Administration-->Time and Date  try to unlock it to make changes (I can not)
<mvo> didrocks: I'm happy to submit a bugreport if you are busy currently
<didrocks> mvo: at start?
<Sarvatt> I saw it as Requires.private in the .pc and I just started shipping the generated gl.pc from the dri build instead of from the swrast build recently (since thats where that libGL is from), will fix up the libgl1-mesa-dev deps for the next upload
<mvo> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> mvo: yeah, a bug report, so that I can check, thanks :)
<mvo> 2010-11-12 15:28:39,984 - root - DEBUG - oneconf: refresh hosts
<didrocks> mvo: oh yes, in the terminal, that will change as I'll use u1sso (it was the binding from u1preferences which made that)
<didrocks> mvo: but a bug report will be fine :)
<didrocks> Sarvatt: ok, I'm making a quick fix in ubuntu for building nux then
<mvo> didrocks: the message is not the problem, the dialog is ;) i.e. it should not pop it up unless the user requests the feature explicitely
<mvo> hey tremolux
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, where in Boston?
<mvo> didrocks: bug #674537 (just fyi)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 674537 in oneconf (Ubuntu) "triggers u1 login dialog on fresh install (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674537
<tremolux> hey mvo!
<mvo> didrocks: and not urgent (at all) :)
<didrocks> mvo: thanks :)
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: I'm in Action, about 20 miles outside of Boston
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, hmm, idk where that is.. my bro lives in Malden
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: sorry, Acton  :)
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, i was just up there for Halloween.  I have relatives in Northboro and Malden
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: ah yeah, I know Northboro well
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: pretty around here at Halloween-time, isn't it?  it's been a great autumn
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, absolutely.  I love fall.. and winter. I grew up in Rochester, NY.  so winters anywhere else aren't that extreme :)
<didrocks> mvo: I think the dialog popup is related to a recent change in u1preferences api, last time I check, it didn't :) but well, as I'll move to u1 sso, the issue won't be there
<bcurtiswx> can anyone test the following please: system-->admin-->time and date  and try unlocking it to change it
<bcurtiswx> i can't for some reason
<pitti> bcurtiswx: confirmed in natty
<mvo> thanks didrocks
<bcurtiswx> pitti, OK thx.  What package should a bug for that be filed under?  Would anyone want to be assigned to that?
<pitti> bcurtiswx: gnome-system-tools; but it's going to go away in natty
<bcurtiswx> pitti, hmm.  I can just wait for that to go away then.  What's replacing it?
<pitti> bcurtiswx: time and date will just be dropped, you can change it in the panel applet
<pitti> user & groups has a replacement in gnome-control-center 3
<pitti> (so I heard)
<pitti> for time and date, the alternative is system-config-date
<bcurtiswx> pitti, how do I change it in panel applet? this may be my dumb question of the half hour
<pitti> I packaged that during maverick for an OEM project, and it's a lot smaller than g-s-t
<pitti> bcurtiswx: hm, it used to be possible, anyway
<pitti> bcurtiswx: so, you can set the time zones and locations there
<bcurtiswx> yup
<pitti> I guess I never actually set the time, since ntpdate is doing that
<bcurtiswx> pitti, OK then my issue is my times an hour behind what it should be..
<bcurtiswx> but my location is set correctly
<pitti> wrong time zone?
<Sarvatt> didrocks: sorry about that, I fixed up the libgl1-mesa-dev depends in debian experimental and it'll be in the next upload in a few days after we do a merge
<pitti> bcurtiswx: what does "date" say?
<bcurtiswx> in terminal?
<pitti> yes
<bcurtiswx> Fri Nov 12 08:52:39 EST 2010
<bcurtiswx> should be EDT
<bcurtiswx> were in daylight savings
<pitti> bcurtiswx: what's /etc/timezone for you?
<didrocks> Sarvatt: no worry. I was just puzzled by the issue and as my natty pbuilder is broken, debugging was just horrible :) fix pushed to natty and look forward to your next merge :)
<bcurtiswx> America/New_York
<pitti> bcurtiswx: indeed, DST ended this Sunday, right?
<bcurtiswx> yes, this past sunday
<pitti> $ TZ=America/New_York date
<pitti> Fr 12. Nov 09:53:45 EST 2010
<pitti> looks like tzdata bug
<pitti> tremolux: ^ did you happen to hear about that?
<pitti> looks like America/ has eternal summer time now
<pitti> bcurtiswx: would you mind filing a bug about this, please? seems we need to fix that in all stable releases
<pitti> bcurtiswx: (against tzdata)
<tremolux> pitti: oh, nope, I didn't
<bcurtiswx> OK, anyone to be assigned?
<pitti> tremolux: could you look into that?
<tremolux> pitti: yep
<pitti> zdump -c 2011 -v America/New_York
<pitti> that looks entirely backwards
<pitti> America/New_York  Sun Nov  7 05:59:59 2010 UTC = Sun Nov  7 01:59:59 2010 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
<pitti> America/New_York  Sun Nov  7 06:00:00 2010 UTC = Sun Nov  7 01:00:00 2010 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
<pitti> $ TZ=America/New_York date -d 'now - 2 weeks'
<pitti> Fr 29. Okt 10:57:30 EDT 2010
<pitti> $ TZ=America/New_York date
<pitti> Fr 12. Nov 09:57:39 EST 2010
<pitti> hm, wait
<pitti> does the "D" mean "daylight saving" or does the "S" mean "summer time"?
<bcurtiswx> yeah, we lose an hour.. not gain one
<tremolux> pitti: yeah, it's fine isn't it?  (scratching my head)
<pitti> maybe I'm just misinterpreting the abbreviations here
<pitti> tremolux: so the gmtoff looks correct
<pitti> seems I'm just misinterpeting the meaning of EST vs. EDT
<pitti> right, so it's "S"tandard vs. "D"aylight
<pitti> so zdump is correct
<tremolux> pitti: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/eastern-time/
<tremolux> pitti: yep, it's correct
<pitti> bcurtiswx: according to http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=179 it _is_ 10 am for you..
<bcurtiswx> pitti, this is correct
<pitti> tremolux: ok, sorry for the confusion; we use CET vs. CEST, wehre the "S" is "summer time"
<bcurtiswx> my comp says 9:00AM right no
<bcurtiswx> now*
<bcurtiswx> yesterday it had the right time though
<pitti> bcurtiswx: does it get better with sudo ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com ?
<pitti> perhaps something else changed the internal clock
<bcurtiswx> i did that and the timestamp says 10:02, but my clock never changed
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: prolly have to wait for the next minute bump...
<bcurtiswx> now it did
 * bcurtiswx shrugs 
<tremolux> sunspots  :)
<bcurtiswx> was there something in the updates yesterday that would have caused the issue
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, im a space physicist .. no sunspots yet :P
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: haha
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: there was a tzdata update yesterday, but no changes to America/New_York and in fact no changes at all for 2010
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, seems to be the 2nd instance of my computer being "special".. it's probably just me :D
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: heh
<bcurtiswx> tremolux, pitti: thanks for the help :)
<tremolux> bcurtiswx: sure np!  that was a strange one
<mvo> will anyone mind if I do a no-change upload of python-gtk2 for the py2.7 transition?
<pitti> mvo: why? current package already has 2.7 bits
<mvo> pitti: hm, then my mirror is outdated
<pitti> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2777032 2010-11-03 04:38 /usr/lib/pyshared/python2.7/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.so
<pitti> mvo: I have 2.22.0-0ubuntu1
<kenvandine> pitti, thx for the sponsoring, can you also get gwibber out of binNEW?
<pitti> kenvandine: for natty?
<kenvandine> yes
<pitti> (still reviewing SRUs)
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> i split all the plugins into separate packages
<kenvandine> so we can reduce how many we include by default :)
<pitti> yay you
 * kenvandine is very pleased to finally have done that
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, did you still need guinea pigs for gwibber fixes?
<kenvandine> sort of... problem is we need a considerable chunk of users to update before we know for sure
<kenvandine> but... based on what facebook said, this should reduce our DB queries by roughly 266 million per day :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, the update is actually very low risk, just removes an operation that isn't actually useful anymore
<kenvandine> so to verify it, you just need to confirm "Replies" is no longer listed under facebook
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, does 266 million get us out of being limited?
<kenvandine> i really should
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, PPA that I can DL from?
<bcurtiswx> desktop-team?
<kenvandine> it is in -proposed
<kenvandine> maverick and lucid
<bcurtiswx> im using natty ;)
<kenvandine> ah... not in natty yet :)
<kenvandine> but you can try the dailies if you want
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, natty soon though?
<kenvandine> natty was my lowest priority, since it should have the lowest number of users
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> once it gets out of binNEW i'll look into merging some other fixes and doing another release
<kenvandine> maybe monday
<kenvandine> or over the weekend
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, great :)
<kenvandine> the biggest change to gwibber in a long time has been sitting in binNEW all week :)
<kenvandine> i am anxious to get more people testing that, it is the plugin split
<kenvandine> and much better error handling
<bcurtiswx> i'm anxiously awaiting.  I'm anxious to see how all the transitions to compiz-unity and GTK3 go (once things start building with it)
<Amaranth> didrocks: I think we need to rethink how we handle compiz crashing
<Amaranth> I naively ported the shell script mechanics but hooking in to SIGSEGV kind of breaks apport
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, I think we should revisit the apport script
<Amaranth> didrocks: No no, apport isn't even getting called
<didrocks> Amaranth: for intance, if there is unity, we should file the bug against unity I guess
<Amaranth> Because compiz doesn't actually crash
<didrocks> Amaranth: oh, you mean the general crashing?
<Amaranth> It launches metacity
<didrocks> Amaranth: hum, it crash if there is a plugin which crash, isn't it?
<didrocks> Amaranth: well, right now, I can get no decorator very easily :)
<didrocks> and no metacity
<Amaranth> That's your decorator crashing maybe
<Amaranth> Either that or you've already removed that part of the patch
<didrocks> Amaranth: not really, it's when a plugin crash (not only at start)
<Amaranth> But what we should really do is make gnome-session restart compiz
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, that's part of my plan, with writing a compiz new plugins
<Amaranth> We had some issues with it way back when but that was actually a bug in compiz as well, we just overreacted
<didrocks> Amaranth: the plugin will do the detection at start
<Amaranth> Err
<didrocks> Amaranth: with that, we can set compiz as a required component
<Amaranth> We're already doing the detection
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, but as a plugin enables us to do interesting thing
<Amaranth> "set compiz as a required component"?
<Amaranth> How does moving the check into a plugin get you anything
<didrocks> Amaranth: like, "can you start unity? no, can you still start compiz + gnome-panel, can you start metacity?"
<didrocks> Amaranth: sam agreed that a plugin was cleaner that this detection at start patch
<Amaranth> Sam thinks everything should be a plugin
<didrocks> Amaranth: I quite agree on that one, so that we don't enforce everyone to have the detection if they don't want
<didrocks> and then, compiz will be set as a required component to gnome-session
<Amaranth> Err, you realize launching metacity will close compiz, right?
<Amaranth> If we don't handle that correctly gnome-session will start it again
<didrocks> Amaranth: of course, why?
<didrocks> Amaranth: you can tell gnome-session "register/unregister than one"
<didrocks> we discussed that with vuntz at UDS
<Amaranth> Are you talking about the session management X protocol or some new gnome-session thing?
<didrocks> gnome-session interns I guess, I didn't look at yet, but vuntz told me it's possible with gnome-session
<Amaranth> cool I've got compiz in an infinite loop
<Amaranth> Luckily before it loaded any plugins
<didrocks> urgh
<Amaranth> Backtrace stopped: previous frame identical to this frame (corrupt stack?)
<Amaranth> arg I have no dbgsym package for it
<didrocks> Amaranth: is it the one with the glib mainloop?
<Amaranth> I dunno, latest package in natty
<Amaranth> It seems reproducible, I've killed it and started again, same thing happened
<didrocks> Amaranth: the -dbgsym package aren't accessible?
<Amaranth> don't have the repo added yet :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: in any case, what do you think in the compiz ppa to produce files with debug symbols unstripped?
<didrocks> s/files/deb
<didrocks> will be faster when moving fast
<Amaranth> dang, dbgsym is ubuntu1, ubuntu2 isn't available yet
<Amaranth> didrocks: works for me
<didrocks> Amaranth: btw, I've replaced zoom by ezoom
<Amaranth> wow this is a long backtrace
<Amaranth> seems to be a deadlock, I thought the kernel caught that and killed the process
<Amaranth> top of the stack is __pthread_mutex_lock, anyway
<didrocks> Amaranth: waow, so surely related to the glib patch
<Amaranth> oh, perhaps it's because I'm using the gconf backend for settings
<didrocks> oh, I didn't tested that layout yet
<didrocks> I'm still with the ini backend
<Amaranth> well, it was working but I don't think I'd tested with the glib patch
<Amaranth> yeah, it seems both compiz and the gconf backend are trying to pump the mainloop
<didrocks> more than possible that it's the cause :)
<didrocks> ok, bad then
<Amaranth> yeah, they end up blocking each other
<Amaranth> core is waiting for results from the backend, backend is spinning on the mainloop lock
<didrocks> Amaranth: ok, something to see with smspillaz/dbo
<njpatel> kenvandine, !
<njpatel> kenvandine, is there anyway through libgwibber to get to the tweet stream as a model?
<kenvandine> njpatel, not yet
<njpatel> kenvandine, was planning to work on the gwibber-gtk stuff tonight would love to have some actual data
<njpatel> ah, okay,
<kenvandine> sorry :)
<njpatel> np :)
<kenvandine> i wanted to libdee working first
<kenvandine> right now the data is just a pile of json
<njpatel> ah, of course,
<kenvandine> njpatel, but.. if you can just make it work with a dee model, with dummy data on the other side
<kenvandine> that would rock
<kenvandine> since that is what i plan to expose... once i can use it in python
<njpatel> yeah, will just use DeeSequence model for now
<kenvandine> njpatel, so just make the stream view display that
<kenvandine> great
<njpatel> yep
<kenvandine> what is the difference? DeeSequence and DeeSharedModel?
<Amaranth> didrocks: Yeah, there are no dbgsym packages for the gconf backend but I'm 100% certain it's stuck in processEvents
<Amaranth> while (g_main_context_pending(NULL)) g_main_context_iteration(NULL, FALSE);
<njpatel> kenvandine, DeeModel is the interface, DeeSequenceModel is the local one that implements it (if I'm recalling the name right) and DeeSharedModel is the remote on that implements it
<njpatel> kenvandine, so we only deal with sequence for now, but it's like a two line change to make it work with shared, as the stream won't know what DeeModel it's using
<kenvandine> oh... i might understand now :)
<kenvandine> i need to get that working in gwibber-service so i can play
<didrocks> Amaranth: sounds logical, can you try to switch to the ini backend just for a test?
<njpatel> the local one is just 'cos gtk/glib doesn't really have a nice model, GSquence is nice, but has a crazy API
<njpatel> so dee-sequence wraps gsequence into something sane
<Amaranth> didrocks: Simple fix, the ccp plugin only tells the gconf plugin to run that if the glib plugin isn't loaded
<Amaranth> didrocks: So we need to toss out that flag and delete the glib plugin :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: well, we need to be smarted in the futur :) I think people will still want to get their gnome keybindings
<didrocks> I know pitti is really eager of that :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: Right, the glib plugin exists to pump the mainloop for the only gconf plugin
<Amaranth> didrocks: But now glib is internal so we don't need that plugin and we don't need the gconf ccp backend to try to pump the mainloop
<Amaranth> basically I just need to toss out that part of the code
<didrocks> Amaranth: so, the gconf plugin needs to be updated to be able to speak to both? or maybe the glib plugin should be removed if the glib mainloop is being to be the default, not sureâ¦
<didrocks> Amaranth: agreed
<Amaranth> didrocks: It just doesn't need to worry about the mainloop at all, core is handling it now
<didrocks> Amaranth: it's still not in the main branch, we should coordinate with sam for that (it's still a separate branch), but in theory, I completely agree
<Amaranth> didrocks: I'm trying to do so now in #compiz-dev :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: hum? I don't have an autojoin there?
<didrocks> something is broken in my weechat config :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, kenvandine hey guys, I was thinking about trying out the compiz-based unity today, is the PPA set up?
 * rickspencer3 is on holiday todasy
<kenvandine> didrocks, not yet
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, was that "not yet" for me?
<kenvandine> whoops :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: will be soon, we are fighting since this morning on getting things in shape
<didrocks> rickspencer3: now, it's just a matter of waiting the buildds
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, funny... i was specifically trying to not mention didrocks, didn't want to distract him
<rickspencer3> sweet
<kenvandine> i guess thinking about that made me type it :)
<rickspencer3> haha
<didrocks> kenvandine: thanks man :)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, for the rest of the day, your job is to not think of the number 42
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> 424242
<rickspencer3> okays, maybe I'll check in later
 * rickspencer3 back to the non-grind
<didrocks> rickspencer3: btw, if you didn't see that, now Quickly and the natty build-system has a full prototype to install in /opt
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, enjoy
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I saw, yah
<rickspencer3> it's sweet
<kenvandine> didrocks, oh... awesome
<didrocks> kenvandine: just needs some testing, as I don't want everyone to not be able to install python apps :)
<didrocks> so, for brave people: https://launchpad.net/~didrocks/+archive/ppa on natty
<kenvandine> i was just fighting with autotools trying to figure out how to deal with something that installs in /opt
<kenvandine> just == at UDS
<didrocks> kenvandine: well, this will only work with python :)
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> bummer :)
<didrocks> kenvandine: but it handles all the bytecompile at install time and symlinks generation
<kenvandine> cool
<dbarth__> hey, is it me or there is no release meeting this week?
<rickspencer3> dbarth__, no release meeting
<rickspencer3> (so far as I know)
<pitti> starting next week
<dbarth__> ok, thanks
<didrocks> vish: nautilus will show the desktop in natty, you can close your bug :)
<vish> didrocks: which bug? the papercut bug or the ATI bug?
<didrocks> vish: the compiz papercut
 * kenvandine -> lunch
<vish> didrocks: i'm a bit confused when you say "close".. or did you mean *not* show
<didrocks> vish: no, nautilus will draw the desktop icons in natty, and your bug was about to change the wording of a compiz plugin for that?
<vish> didrocks: nah, not to change the wording.. :)  but to fix the behavior
<didrocks> vish: ok, just so you know that the desktop icons will be shown in natty :)
<vish> didrocks: cool, thanks. :)
<vish> so i'll re-confirm the bug..
<didrocks> ok :)
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<ronoc> bl8 ping
<icekk> I installed ubuntu desktop on my netbook, is there a tool i can use to strip it down a little and make it faster?
<didrocks> icekk: for support issue, please, head to #ubuntu
<icekk> hmm its not a support issue is it
<icekk> its more like a feature
<icekk> :D
<devildante> didrocks: typing !support is better :)
<didrocks> !support | icekk
<ubot2> icekk: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<didrocks> !topic
<ubot2> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<didrocks> hum, it doesn't display the topic?
<icekk> dirocks, whats this chan for? development?
<didrocks> icekk: this channel is for developping ubuntu
<didrocks> icekk: right :)
<icekk> like kernal level?
<icekk> or overall?
<didrocks> icekk: here, it's desktop as #ubuntu-desktop intend :)
<icekk> yeah, does that mean the development is related to OS development strictly?
<icekk> or any type of ubuntu desktop dev?
<didrocks> icekk: the OS, there is #ubuntu-app-devel I think for developping applications on ubuntu
<icekk> that's pretty cool, is the OS itself written in c?
<didrocks> icekk: it's the OS as the applications, all what you can install in ubuntu
<didrocks> "the distribution" is the correct term
<icekk> If I wanted to run command line linux on an embedded device, are there distributions geared toward embedded devices?
<icekk> or just run a stripped down version of ubuntu-desktop
<bl8> ronoc: pong
<ronoc> bl8, hey
<geser> does someone know why some of my panel applets don't appear in my panel anymore in natty? do they need porting to the new libpanel-applet-3-0?
<pitti> have a nice weekend everyone, good night!
<chrisccoulson> w00t, gsettings support in firefox built, finally \o/
<mvo> chrisccoulson: nice! is there a guide for python too? i have some python stuff that need fixing
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i'm not sure if there is any guide for python
<mterry> mvo, I *think* that if you want to use gsettings, you have to switch to gobject-introspection first
<mvo> mterry: thanks, *mehh* that sounds not like a friday evening project ;)
<mterry> :)
<bcurtiswx> is there a way to build from pbuilder and test the build from in there (like a chroot) ?
<bcurtiswx> hmm, prob a motu question. sry
<nerus> james_w: Hi
<james_w> hi nerus
<nerus> I saw this http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/11/11/3048/
<nerus> am I talking to the right person ? ;)
<james_w> nerus, you want jasoncwarner
<nerus> james_w: oh okay :)
<james_w> he's apparently not here right now
<nerus> I guess he is not around
<nerus> yep
<nerus> thanks very much
<nerus> i will come again later in the day tomorrow
<nerus> :)
<bratsche> Anyone around who is very familiar with GI and Python stuff who can help me for a few minutes?
<bratsche> Trying to make some GI binding and it doesn't seem to be working as I want.
<mclasen> pitti: have you done the media-player-info 11 release ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-13
<bcurtiswx_> unity+compiz.. i can't click the ubuntu button on the top left
<bcurtiswx_> and things on my gnome-panel will not work and cause it to crash.. (i'm using what was said to, whcih were humanity icon theme
<fagan> bcurtiswx: on my intel system unity+compiz doesnt even work
<fagan> its really early so I presume there are some huge bugs
<bcurtiswx_> fagan, yeah I hope that it improved drastically if they really want it out by Alpha1
<bcurtiswx_> improves*
<fagan> bcurtiswx: well if it was stuck in the default right now id have to go back to maverick
<fagan> I wouldnt mind but compiz works perfect but shell and unity+compiz dont work at all
<fagan> unity+mutter worked ok
<bcurtiswx_> fagan, thankfully i have docky with a terminal icon.. otherwise switching off from ccsm would have been hard.. its off for me now as it doesn't work
<bcurtiswx_> my alt+f2 wasn't working either..need to figure out how to get that back
<fagan> alt+f2 wasnt in mutter+unity either
<fagan> I think its a design thingy
<fagan> I hope unity starts working on my laptop since ill be doing some work on it starting in march :/
<bcurtiswx_> ah OK
<bcurtiswx_> what type of work?
<fagan> bcurtiswx: an internship for my college course
<bcurtiswx_> nice, CS department?
<fagan> well my course is software development
<fagan> ill be doing odds and ends in unity for 6 months ish
<bcurtiswx_> i should take a course in software dev.. im in model dev myself.. which is completely different
<fagan> interesting
<bcurtiswx_> i'd really like to create a linux app for displaying space weather conditions live... but i wouldn't even know where to start
<fagan> bcurtiswx: that sounds a little insane :)
<bcurtiswx_> which part? :P
<fagan> the space weather :)
<bcurtiswx_> thats my field.. computational sciences and informatics in space sciences and astrophysics
<fagan> ah
<bcurtiswx_> if i can create an app to take the already-available live measurements from satellites and use a GUI to allow easy display.. it would benefit a lot of people/agencies etc..
<fagan> sounds cool
<bcurtiswx_> yup, :) i consider it my ultimate goal.. since I would have to self-learn everything
<fagan> bcurtiswx: well there is lots of docs out there and quickly is awesome for that kind of thing
<bcurtiswx_> what exactly is quickly?
<fagan> since it makes all of the packaging and building and ppa stuff easy
<fagan> its just a set of templates and commands to make things more automated
<fagan> it takes away most of the hard stuff and makes it so you can get down to coding
<bcurtiswx_> fagan, i'll have to give it a look.  thx for the heads up
<fagan> no problem
<fagan> Ah now I get why its not working
<fagan> compiz must have a problem after the last updat
<fagan> *update
<fagan> ill ask on monday about it and see if there is something weird going on
<bcurtiswx_> fagan, great :)
<kklimonda> ech, if all the effort tha has been put into quickly were put into creating a nice IDE.. we would probably get a code completion ;)
<fagan> kklimonda: well geany has code completion
<fagan> I love it for C/C++ because it knows about /include for the standard libs
<kklimonda> fagan: when I say code completion I think Visual Assist X ;)
<fagan> yeah
<devildante> Visual Assist What there?
<kklimonda> devildante: a plugin to visual studio that enchances its intellisense.
<devildante> hmm, what does it do exactly to enhance?
<devildante> it
<fagan> intellisense is awesome as it is
 * fagan is a fan although its very shameful to admit 
<kklimonda> devildante: it's context aware for one
<kklimonda> now that we have gobject introspection it's actually possible to write some cool stuff with it.
<fagan> kklimonda: geany works from history as well as the common functions and others stuff
<fagan> although it doesnt do gtk and other stuff
<fagan> its only the base stuff
<devildante> what's context aware? (sorry, n00b alert :p)
<fagan> devildante: context aware is knowing when stuff is out of scope and stuff like that
<fagan> and using == instead of =
<devildante> ah
<kklimonda> devildante: for example it's aware of argument types that function accepts and gives you only such suggestions (and only from things available in the current scope)
<fagan> kklimonda: I beat you to it
<fagan> :)
<devildante> AWESOME
<kklimonda> indeed
<kklimonda> ^2 ;)
<devildante> (I hate you now, you make me love visual studio :p)
<kklimonda> devildante: don't worry - we all do
<kklimonda> it's a secret of all FOSS developers - we all love visual studio. Those who don't just haven't used it ;)
<fagan> devildante: microsoft actually do a good job with visual studio
<fagan> I love the .msi maker thingy in it
<devildante> we NEED a good ubuntu IDE
<fagan> its something I really want for ubuntu
<fagan> devildante: id say just make geany awesome
<devildante> I actually thought of something like that some time before
<fagan> its already half way there
<kklimonda> the easier half ;)
<fagan> well yeah
<devildante> fagan: that's just an advanced text editor
<kklimonda> devildante: we need all kind of stuff - good IDE, good interface for gdb, good profiler
<fagan> we do have eclipse too
<devildante> I love it, but it's not going to be an IDE
<fagan> although its very annoying and bloated
<devildante> kklimonda: yes :)
<devildante> fagan: I think devs mainly use eclipse for java only
<fagan> and netbeans although its not half as good as eclipse
<fagan> devildante: well there are plugins for everything
<devildante> fagan: I know, but it's mainly *used* for java ;)
<kklimonda> and python
<fagan> the python plugin is one of the most used
<kklimonda> Pydev is a really good ide for python
<devildante> hmm, I see
<fagan> yeah kklimonda thats the one
<fagan> there was a little bit of talk at the last uds about a ubuntu ide
<fagan> but I dont know if there was any plans drawn up
<kklimonda> fagan: every time a discussion about that starts someone brings quickly and it's the moment I stop caring ;)
<kklimonda> I love quickly but it's like we are on a different page.
<fagan> kklimonda: well quickly is awesome and we could do a projects thing for an ide made with it
<devildante> I thought of three use cases for an Ubuntu IDE: packagers who can package apps and maintain them real quick, opportunistic devs, and big vs (adobe, etc.) who are what visual studio focuses on
<devildante> kklimonda: that could be a use case :)
<fagan> and the run, package and all the rest of the stuff could be used in an ide
<devildante> yes
<devildante> and we could even propose to propose it in extras.ubuntu.com/paid apps automatically (if it ever gets automatic at one point :p)
<kklimonda> it will in next 10 years or so
<fagan> devildante: extras isnt for paid apps
<devildante> lol
<kklimonda> maybe that's why I'm so frustrated lately
<devildante> I know
<kklimonda> we don't really have 10 years
<devildante> kklimonda: we had 6 years, why can't we have another ten? ;)
<fagan> hmmm well we need something like the android marketplace
<devildante> fagan: that's USC
<kklimonda> devildante: because more and more developers are swithing to the web development. It's the new FOSS.
<fagan> I mean how to get apps in there
<fagan> not the installer itself
<devildante> fagan: that's extras.ubuntu.com ;)
<fagan> not really
<devildante> kklimonda: heh :) just wait and see
<devildante> fagan: why?
<fagan> extras is just for little small fire and forget apps
<fagan> the android marketplace is a single place that you dump everything
<kklimonda> devildante: I'm seeing it right now - there is a steady influx of developers in foss world but most of them are coming to web-oriented projects.
<devildante> fagan: extras is still kind of a draft - maybe it will open up later :)
<fagan> well I wouldnt bet on it
 * fagan is on the ARB after all so id know 
<kklimonda> fagan: android model is something we are aiming for
<devildante> kklimonda: the core will always be there to develop :)
<fagan> kklimonda: its what we need
<kklimonda> fagan: not with extras but in general
<kklimonda> devildante: but the core will sustain only so many developers.
<kklimonda> devildante: Ubuntu will prevail as a system but will fail as a platform.
<devildante> kklimonda: we need some feature in the core that web apps can't do, so users are happy and we can have more developers :p
<fagan> well the ideal for me would be to have an easy way for developers to package up their app and just submit it and then have the users flag the bad ones like in the android marketplace
<fagan> it would sustain itself
<kklimonda> devildante: that's the problem - there isn't much that web apps can't do anymore or won't be able to do in next few years.
<fagan> and have the same process for paid and unpaid apps
<kklimonda> fagan: yes, it may sustain itself and it's a long-term goal afaik
<devildante> fagan: can you just submit an app in the marketplace and be accepted? so it's not like App Store?
<kklimonda> fagan: the real problem is how to get there
<kklimonda> fagan: as someone at the UDS put it this goal is so far away we don't even see how to reach it right now.
<devildante> kklimonda: doomsday scenario would be we would have to learn web programming - horror :p
<fagan> devildante: in the android marketplace you dont need to get accepted
<fagan> everything is
<fagan> just think youtube
<kklimonda> devildante: well, it's a failure for FOSS in general. cloud takes away users' freedom.
<devildante> ah
<fagan> anything bad gets flagged and pulled
<fagan> so ratings bring the best to the top
<devildante> fagan: that would beat the security advantage that repos have, I think
<fagan> and the bad stuff either is at the very bottom and no one uses it or it get used and they get flagged
<kklimonda> devildante: beat?
<devildante> kklimonda: the cloud IS the problem ; web apps are not ;)
<devildante> kklimonda: lol no :p
<kklimonda> devildante: cloud isn't the problem; web apps are :P
<devildante> wait what? :p
<kklimonda> devildante: I can imagine a cloud controlled completely by the user
<devildante> kklimonda: that would defeat its purpose, no?
<kklimonda> devildante: but it works only as long as you have control over applications.
<kklimonda> devildante: no, why?
<devildante> kklimonda: I simply don't see a use case for it... perhaps you could show it to me?
<kklimonda> devildante: you can do it like that - put couchdb on some remote server and sync it with your computer.
<devildante> :)
<kklimonda> devildante: you get cloud advantage - remote access to data and you keep your data with you at all times
<devildante> kklimonda: big companies like google wouldn't be pushing the cloud if this were so simple
<kklimonda> (it can even work without any remote server but is harder to configure)
<devildante> oh?
<kklimonda> devildante: they care about your data
<fagan> googles app engine is a cloud
<devildante> kklimonda: but you can't just set up a remote server ; at least, the average user wouldn't do it
<kklimonda> devildante: yes - but then in my perfect world various companies would provide hosting for cocuhdb instances. (actually, two companies do that already)
<devildante> kklimonda: which are? (interested)
<kklimonda> devildante: couch.io is one
<kklimonda> devildante: oh, right - Canonical is second
<devildante> kklimonda: Ubuntu one is not FOSS on the server side
<kklimonda> devildante: but you can use them as a couchdb instance providers.
<devildante> hmm, yah
<fagan> devildante: it is couchdb serverside
<fagan> the magic is how everything works together
<devildante> kklimonda: but what guarantees the company won't sneak on your data?
<devildante> fagan: aah
<kklimonda> fagan: well, file syncing isn't couchdb
<fagan> kklimonda: well couchdb can store objects
<kklimonda> devildante: sure - there is none. But there is none currently with other cloud providers. What you get from couchdb is that you always have your data backed up on your hardware and you can always take it with you to another company.
<kklimonda> fagan: yes, it can - but it's not how u1 file syncing is being done afaik
<fagan> Well unless you work on the U1 team you wouldnt really know
<kklimonda> devildante: also, you can keep all the data encrypted on their server.
<devildante> kklimonda: that's interesting
<kklimonda> fagan: files are being stored in Amazon S3
<fagan> kklimonda: yeah I knew that
<fagan> the entire U1 is a cloud instance on amazon
<kklimonda> fagan: couchdb doesn't store attachments separate from database and in separate files.
<kklimonda> fagan: so you would have to put and pull entire database from S3.
<fagan> yeah your right but you can simulate folders with tables
<devildante> kklimonda: encrypted cloud would be win win
<devildante> kklimonda: but then it would only serve as a backup - idea of cloud computing is that web apps interact with your data
<fagan> devildante: well U1 is encrypted in a way because couchdb has it built in with its username and password access protocals
<fagan> it is secure
<devildante> fagan: YAY :)
<kklimonda> devildante: yes, if you want web apps to interact with your data there is no way around it.
<kklimonda> devildante: but I see cloud (without computing) as a mean to have access to your data from all around the world but with desktop tools.
<fagan> it just doesnt really look all that secure since all of that stuff is handled with oath
<fagan> so its all done in the background and unlocked when you log in
<devildante> kklimonda: so web apps should be avoided
<kklimonda> devildante: from my point of view - yes
<devildante> fagan: oauth is the devil as of right now, as I understood (but I'm afraid I didn't understand well :p)
<chrisccoulson> this channel is pretty active for a saturday evening!
<chrisccoulson> normally it's dead in here ;)
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: if only our discussion were on topic ;)
<fagan> chrisccoulson: we are having a great converstation :)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<devildante> kklimonda: lol
<fagan> kklimonda: it is kinda slightly on topic
<kklimonda> well, very slightly :)
<kklimonda> but no one complains!
<fagan> we arent talking about hairstyles or anything
<devildante> fagan: we were talking about IDEs, remember? :p
<kklimonda> true
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: oh, now that you are here
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * chrisccoulson goes and opens wine
<fagan> hehe
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: can you think of any reason why X uses ~25% when I have firefox window maximized?
<chrisccoulson> what sort of content is it displaying?
<devildante> chrisccoulson: no, you must not emulate windows progr- wait, is that real wine? :p
<kklimonda> I think it doesn't happen with metacity - only with compiz
<chrisccoulson> is it any particular website that does it?
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: it's actually more complicated - it seems to be related to gnome-terminal
<chrisccoulson> heh, that's weird
<kklimonda> chrisccoulson: content of the website doesn't matter but when Firefox window is maximized and I do something that involves lots of scrolling in gnome-terminal it's slow
<kklimonda> the moment I minimize firefox it's fast again :/
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, do you have transparency in gnome-terminal?
<fagan> hmmmm does anyone know if the ARM guys have the Toshiba AC100 working right yet
<kklimonda> yes - but it's on a different virtual desktop
<kklimonda> fagan: they didn't have on UDS - well, not completetly
<fagan> kklimonda: if it is working by 11.04 ill get one
<fagan> its â¬278 in ireland
<fagan> :)
<kklimonda> fagan: it's hard to tell how much will they get done before 11.04 - the hardware is.. exotic ;)
<fagan> kklimonda: it does look awesome though
<kklimonda> yes, and it's featherlight.
<fagan> well id say ill get one anyway since android is working ok with it
<kklimonda> android.. meh ;)
<fagan> well id prefer unity but android will do for the time being
<fagan> and there is a lot of bloatware from toshiba on it too which I dont like
<kklimonda> the mmc is pretty slow though
<fagan> its 1ghz
<fagan> so its just a little slower than an atom
<kklimonda> mmc - the storage slot.
<fagan> oh I thought that was something got to do with the processor
<fagan> the storage I dont mind
<kklimonda> it's slooow :P
<fagan> I just want something to go on the internet and do some coding on the go
<kklimonda> the guy who showed it to me complained about it.
<fagan> hehe
<fagan> kklimonda: and the AC100 is smaller than the new macbook air so it is awesome just for tha t
<fagan> *that
<devildante> fagan: Coding? on a slow processor? I hope you only do python dev :p
<fagan> devildante: well I commit all my crap then compile it on another computer anyway
<fagan> ive been doing that for months now
 * fagan is on a 1ghz piece of crap laptop 
<fagan> (its so old)
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, oh, firefox sort-of does it here too, but it doesn't matter if i have gnome-terminal open ;)
<kklimonda> heh
<devildante> fagan: what if you want to compile for arm? :p
<fagan> devildante: I wouldnt hehe
<kklimonda> devildante: he'll use our awesome cross-compiler
<devildante> kklimonda: ah yes I forgot
<fagan> well devildante I could use the magic buildfarm
<fagan> I wouldnt need to compile stuff on arm except my crappy little college insane programs
<fagan> huh there are more buildbots for arm than 32bit
<Nafallo> how is that surprising?
<Nafallo> ARMs take longer to build stuff.
<fagan> Nafallo: for instance python stuff is all built on the 32bit builders but still it only has 4 compared to the 6 for arm
<fagan> I just found it a little odd
<fagan> but I suppose all the rebuilds that happened last cycle probably makes it worth sticking all those bots onto arm
<Laney> arm quite regularly falls behind the other arches
<fagan> interesting
<kklimonda> it's much slower - all you need is a firefox release for it to fall behind ;)
<kklimonda> or some dependency failing to build.
<fagan> I forgot about all the build failures
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda, yeah, that's normally my fault ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-11-14
<ari-tczew> :( indicator-applet can't handle konversation signals
<ari-tczew> in natty
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-07
<jbicha> ...but totem is in main and all of its dependencies and recommends need to be in main too
<jbicha> totem's not going to be completely in sync with Debian but you can contribute there too
<m4n1sh> jbicha: ah yes. That is a problem
<m4n1sh> I forgot
<m4n1sh> then we can never get those plugins :(
<micahg> we could in theory merge totem from Debian unstable (haven't looked at the diff yet, but the versions match up)
<m4n1sh> micahg: if one of the dependencies of a totem plugin is in universe
<m4n1sh> then it means that plugin will never be packaged in ubuntu?
<micahg> m4n1sh: well, Debian is still on 3.0.x as well
<m4n1sh> but totem would see a 3.2 this cycle? right?
<micahg> no
<m4n1sh> that clutter thing was a 3.4 problem?
<micahg> oh?  I thought it was 3.2 and that's why we stayed on 3.0 for oneiric
<m4n1sh> not sure
<m4n1sh> need to check
<m4n1sh> and what about the universe dependency of plugin?
<m4n1sh> when package are built, then are universe repo available?
<micahg> m4n1sh: not for packages in main
<m4n1sh> so means a plugin I worked on cant get accepted
<m4n1sh> bummer
<m4n1sh> I mean packaging update part
<micahg> m4n1sh: what's the dependency?
<m4n1sh> libepc-ui-dev
<m4n1sh> available in universe
<m4n1sh> libepc-ui-1.0-2
<micahg> m4n1sh: do you want the plugin packages with totem or separately?
<micahg> *packaged
<m4n1sh> well totem source
<m4n1sh> created many binary packages
<m4n1sh> one of them is totem-plugins
<micahg> is it shipped upstream?
<m4n1sh> yes
<m4n1sh> with totem source package
<micahg> starting with what version?
<m4n1sh> so since source package will be in main
<m4n1sh> it has been always
<m4n1sh> totem source package contains many plugins as part of codebase
<m4n1sh> so totem-plugins is in main
<micahg> looks like all the build deps for that library are in main, you could try to MIR if the Desktop team thinks it's useful enough to support
<m4n1sh> I don't think it is that important
<m4n1sh> it should bring some value to the default install
<bjsnider> m4n1sh, the trouble with 3.2 is that it only works if your system is opengl-capable
<m4n1sh> clutter?
<bjsnider> yeah
<bjsnider> it looks like they've overcome that problem, or are on the verge of it
<bjsnider> with llvm
<jbicha> m4n1sh: you can file a mir if you like and see what happens, I did that a few times last cycle
<m4n1sh> jbicha: that package isn't that so important
<m4n1sh> I was just trying out new plugins
<m4n1sh> and thought it would be good to have them packaged
<m4n1sh> there are no shortage of people crying aloud that ubuntu is destroying our community esp GNOME
<m4n1sh> bjsnider: how with llvm?
<m4n1sh> isnt llvm a compiler suite?
<bjsnider> http://lwn.net/Articles/465728/
<bjsnider> that should, it seems to me, make all the difference for totem as well
<bjsnider> m4n1sh, they think linux achieved perfection with gnome 2
<bjsnider> gnome 2 is the alpha and the omega, or something like that
<thisfred> quick sanity check: is this likely something I did wrong or a hardware failure? Bug #886961
<m4n1sh> I chuckled when I heard there was track at UDS named managing community bickering
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886961 in ubuntu "apt-get dist-upgrade hangs while generating grub.cfg" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886961
<m4n1sh> bjsnider: looks like some complex methods
<m4n1sh> http://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html
<bjsnider> there are extensions for gnome-shell that bring back everything in gnome 2, so i don't know what all the bellyaching is about
<m4n1sh> The Gallium llvmpipe driver is a software rasterizer that uses LLVM to do runtime code generation. Shaders, point/line/triangle rasterization and vertex processing are implemented with LLVM IR which is translated to x86 or x86-64 machine code
<bjsnider> the menus, the bottom task panel, etc.
<m4n1sh> and then why is GNOME2 being deprecated
<m4n1sh> kind of cried
<m4n1sh> *cries
<m4n1sh> I don't understand the sense of entitlement
<bjsnider> especially since it's a free product
<desrt> any canonical employees?
<lifeless> I so want to make a sarcastic comment
<lifeless> the only thing stopping me is CLMobia
<desrt> hit me =)
<lifeless> :P
<smspillaz> desrt: hi
<desrt> smspillaz: hey
<desrt> got the info i needed already, thanks
<smspillaz> kk
 * smspillaz goes back to studying
<desrt> weird!
<desrt> ;)
<infinity> lifeless: Wait, you suddenly have a fear of CLMs?  Is this shiny and new?
<lifeless> infinity: not really
<lifeless> infinity: just the quotes page now reaches what, 500 people?
<infinity> lifeless: But it's always reached those who could fire you.  Nothing's changed. ;)
<lifeless> infinity: TBH the ones that were percolating up are ones I wouldn't ever have used.
<lifeless> infinity: consider elmo's demo to Jane of screensavers.
<pitti> Good morning
<huats> morning
<pitti> hey huats, how are you?
<huats> fine pitti ! thanks !
<huats>  what about you ? you had a nice trip back ?
<pitti> huats: well, as nice as a short night on an economy class seat can be :)
<pitti> I managed to sleep a bit, yes
<pitti> and actually waked up at 6 today, so not too bad :)
<huats> :)
<huats> I woke up at 6 too :)
<pitti> I'm officially on holiday today, so I cranked up my inkscape skills from about 0 to 0.05 :) http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
<didrocks> pitti: guten Morgen! still a little bit asleep, but I'm fine, you?
<pitti> didrocks: woke up at 6 again; didn't sleep too much, but that should be ok
<pitti> I can take a nap this afternoon if I want, I'm officially on a swap day today ;)
<didrocks> heh, indeed :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you? how was your flight back?
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: pretty quiet, I could sleep a bit
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<pitti> and all on time, so that went well
<pitti> chrisccoulson: how was your's?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - heh, i tried to sleep a bit on my flight, but failed
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm rather fine, despite a quite not optimal at all return :) yourself?
<chrisccoulson> so i ended up falling asleep on sunday afternoon
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, what happened with your return?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: first fight was delayed by 30 minutes, I ran with jibel at JFK to change terminal
<didrocks> there were calling us for final call for boarding
<chrisccoulson> oh, that sucks :(
<didrocks> the security, having a huge crowd, didn't want to listen to us
<didrocks> so, we arrived when they closed the door
<didrocks> and the security didn't tell them we were queuing
<pitti> didrocks: did they still let you in?
<didrocks> then, we were set in the next flight, in another terminal (just next to our arrival in fact)
<pitti> ah, argh
<didrocks> pitti: no, too late apparently, they didn't want to reopen the door :/
<didrocks> apparently, they screwed my reschedule as well as I had to spent 30 minutes in Paris to have another flight to Lyon
<didrocks> and nobody knew where my luggage was
<didrocks> so I arrived in Lyon with it (but just 2 hours late, which isn't that bad)
<didrocks> and I got my luggage by taxi yesterday evening
<didrocks> so not that bad, but still, all that would have been avoided if JFK security was more flexible
<didrocks> (especially when we are 5 in this case)
<glatzor> morning pitti, you want to get rid of check_language_support?
<pitti> glatzor: no, of language-selector
<pitti> glatzor: and rewrite check_language_support to either be an aptdaemon plugin, or a separate script and call it from aptdaemon
<glatzor> pitti, I have already worked on this.
<pitti> ooh
<glatzor> pitti, it's 5 loc :) plus setuptools integration
<pitti> glatzor: i. e. you integrated check_language_support, or you put the code to evaluate /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends into 5 LOCs?
<glatzor> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/730838/
<glatzor> pitti, but it could make sense to integrate this deeper into aptdaemon for performance reasons
<pitti> glatzor: yes, the current implementation in c-l-s is rather expensive
<pitti> it reinitializes apt caches again, etc.
<pitti> glatzor: but for the time being this is nice, it'll fix bug 396414 when it is run on every install
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 396414 in synaptic "When KDE or gnome apps get installed, the corresponding language-packs should be pulled automatically" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396414
<glatzor> pitti, I am currently failing to move language-selector to setuptools
<pitti> glatzor: don't bother; as I said, I'd like to throw it away entirely (or leave it for the KDE guys)
<pitti> glatzor: I'd like to look into an efficient, small, and simple reimplementation of the check_language_support
<pitti> in python or shell, whatever is more appropriate
<pitti> and we either call that from aptdaemon, or what might be preferable, integrate the logic into aptdaemon and then make a check_language_support script which just calls thaht method from aptdaemon
<glatzor> pitti, by the way, do you think we will get dbus server support for python in this cycle?
<pitti> glatzor: I looked into this another 8 hours or so, but gave up then; it requires major reorg of the pygobject sources :(
<pitti> or a clever fix which I'm not skilled enough to come up with
<pitti> glatzor: I'll re-discuss it with J5, but I wouldn't bet on it this cycle
<pitti> (it's still high on the list of things I'd like to see)
<mvo> hey glatzor! nice to see you. s-c trunk should be mostly ready for consumption in debian now
<pitti> hey mvo
<mvo> glatzor: the only missing bit is that something needs to provide package-{install,upgrade,remove}.png icons, we do it in the humanity icon theme
<didrocks> good morning mvo!
<mvo> hey didrocks, good morning!
<glatzor> mvo, thanks!
<pitti> rickspencer3: hey Rick, how are you?
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> I am well, but the jet lag is baaaad this week
<rickspencer3> I shall log off soon, and spend the day with my wife, I think
<rickspencer3> pitti,  how are you?
<pitti> rickspencer3: reasonably well, woke up at 6
<rickspencer3> pitti, nice
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'm on a swap day as well, but playing around a little
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> pitti, :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: how do you like the 12.04 motto card? http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/
<rickspencer3> hi didrocks
 * rickspencer3 looks
<rickspencer3> didrocks, tu as eu une bonne voyage apres NY?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: on a ratÃ© notre avion avec jibel Ã  cause de la sÃ©curitÃ© de JFK. Donc on a pris le suivant
<didrocks> rickspencer3: ils ont ensuite perdu ma valise, mais je l'ai eu par taxi hier soir, donc tout va bien :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: et toi?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, j'ai ne fu pas mon connexion in NY parce que notre avion a ete en retard
<rickspencer3> enfin, je prix un bon avion en Amsterdam, pas probleme
<didrocks> rickspencer3: tu avais un autre vol pas trop tard?
<rickspencer3> j'ai prix KLM
<rickspencer3> didrocks, oui, Delta a me donne une voyage en KLM
<didrocks> Ã§a va donc :-)
<rickspencer3> don, j'ai arrive en Amsterdam une huer en retard saulement
 * rickspencer3 wipes sweat from brow
<rickspencer3> pitti, nice!
<rickspencer3> "Failure is not an Option" ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: nous, on Ã©tait arrivÃ© dans le terminal 3, puis le vol air france au terminal 1, mais comme on l'a loupÃ©, on a pris un vol delta auâ¦ terminal 3 (juste Ã  cÃ´tÃ© de lÃ  oÃ¹ on Ã©tait arrivÃ© :/). Donc on a eu 2 fois la securitÃ© pour rien :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, nice reference to NASA
 * rickspencer3 open google.translate
<rickspencer3> j/k
<pitti> rickspencer3: I got this card from the space center: http://piware.de/fotos/Apollo%2013%20-%20Failure%20is%20not%20an%20option.jpg
<pitti> rickspencer3: something like "from testing comes quality"
<rickspencer3> excellent pitti :)
<didrocks> pitti: last year, we bought the Tee Shirt for njpatel just after the "unity by default" annoucement :)
 * pitti discovers kvm's --virtfs magic, sweet
<pitti> so we have that, autopkgtest, and now a package which is in dep-8 (upower), we just need to connect the dots now
<pitti> jibel: bonjour, ca va?
<pitti> jibel: had a safe trip home?
<rickspencer3> hey guys, I'm going to go into lurk/log off mode
<rickspencer3> ttyl
 * pitti -> diablo II
<didrocks> see you rickspencer3 and enjoy diablo II pitti :)
 * didrocks continues writing tarmac <-> jenkins plugin for unity
 * Sweetshark let go a muffled moarn about ubuflu and jetlag.
<jibel> Hey pitti , mir geht es gut.
<jibel> pitti, didrock and I missed our connection by 5 minutes in JFK thanks to an overzealous security agent.
<jibel> I'll remember to avoid connecting flights in JFK with less than a 3 hours layover.
<jibel> But that's minor annoyance and reached home finally :)
<Sweetshark> jibel: I almost had that in newark on the flight to Orlando -- but without an overzealous security agent. continental just had that connection that tight that I appeared at the gate 30 sec before closing. Any overzeal by the personal would have made me miss it.
<didrocks> jibel: hey!
<didrocks> jibel: so they lost my luggage, but then, were quite active and I received it by taxi yesterday evening
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<jibel> didrocks, Cool. It's better to wait for your luggage on your way back home than the other way.
<didrocks> jibel: indeed, I wasn't too worry because of that :)
<didrocks> jibel: did you catch your train?
<jibel> didrocks, yep, I got it.
<pitti> jibel: FYI, I converted the first package to dep-8 today, and tried autopkgtest
<pitti> jibel: it works well enough in "run in current system" mode
<pitti> jibel: now I'm wondering if you already have existing machinery to set up VMs, snapshot them, install packages, run something, and tear them down
<pitti> jibel: or whether it's worth writing a kvm runner for autopkgtest
<pitti> jibel: I tried the chroot runner, but that's not enough as we want to start e. g. dbus for the tests, and it also needs root
<pitti> jibel: so I discovered kvm's --virtfs, and that's a nice way to shovel data into the VM (to control what autopktgtest runs, and copy back the logs)
<jibel> pitti, thanks, that's upower, right ?
<jibel> pitti, I'll finish the setup of upgrade testing in the QA Lab today and will try autopkgtest right after.
<pitti> jibel: we can walk through this together
<pitti> jibel: right, upower
<pitti> jibel: if you don't already have similar machinery, I'm actually interested in writing that kvm backend, but before I'd like to get a closer understanding what we need exactly
<pitti> jibel: I'm off for lunch now anyway, but maybe we can mumble about this later
<jibel> pitti, sure, we use something similar for kernel. I'll see if we can reuse it for packages.
<jbicha> good morning
<jibel> pitti, bon appetit
<Q-FUNK> pretty weird Bug #886833  in Lucid. where would I start to investigate this?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886833
<mterry> Huh, when did apps.ubuntu.com go live?  I missed that.  It's neat
<Laney> some time when natty was current, judging by the default :-)
<mterry> Laney, :)
<jbicha> ricotz: I think we should remove glib 2.31 from the gnome3 oneiric ppa as I don't think we should bother patching gnome 3.2 stuff for the new glib
<jbicha> or at least we should do that in precise, not oneiric
<ricotz> jbicha, agreed, i think seb128 requested it for testing
<seb128> ricotz, jbicha: you can drop it, we wanted it somewhere for testing but that didn't need to be the same ppa than gnome3
<jbicha> ok, done, it's still in the precise part of the gnome3 ppa
<didrocks> seb128: salut seb128, bien rentrÃ©?
<seb128> didrocks, lut, nickel, et toi?
<didrocks> seb128: quelques surprises (connexion manquÃ©e Ã  jfk Ã  cause de la sÃ©curitÃ© et aller-retour entre terminaux) + perte de baggage, mais tout est rentrÃ© dans l'ordre le dimanche soir!
<seb128> oh
<seb128> so you didn't master jfk connections enough :-(
<seb128> when did you arrive ?
<didrocks> I arrived 2 hours late fortunatly, so back home at 12h
<didrocks> well, we could have mastered the jfk connexion if the security didn't tell jibel and I to wait in line
<didrocks> (even when it was the final call with our name)
<didrocks> so we missed it by 2 minutesâ¦
<didrocks> and were redirectered to a delta flight at the terminal we arrivedâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, ok, no luck there, there is a reason I never connect in the U.S ;-)
<chrisccoulson> me too ;)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you? had a good trip back?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it was uneventful. how about you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I was surprised to not see you at the airport btw ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nothing worth mentioning, the plane didn't have by-seat-screens but I slept most of the flight so that was ok
<didrocks> seb128: well, back to europe, it should be easier, but not luck this time, yeah. I'll avoid connecting to JFK after those 2 bad surprises though
<seb128> didrocks, well you got lucky in your unluck, 2 hours delay is ok for a missed flight
<didrocks> and lost luggage which I got in the evening by taxi
<didrocks> so yeah, not a lot to complain :)
<seb128> didrocks, well at least you didn't loose your password like mhr3
<seb128> he put it with his tickets on a tray at the security check and never got it back on the other side
<seb128> it got stucked somewhere or picked by somebody by mistake or something
<jbicha> passport?
<didrocks> urgh?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> yes, passport
<didrocks> that sucksâ¦
<seb128> lol, I'm used to type password :p
<didrocks> I'll keep it on me from now on then and don't put it on a tray
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, he never got it back
<seb128> that was after security check though and he had his national id so he managed to get in the plane
<Q-FUNK> ouch
<didrocks> fortunatly, but still, experiencing that at the security checkâ¦ that's weird
<seb128> dunno what happened, there was some chaos there, a guy was making the portal thing bip and they made him go several times through, quite some people queued and the trays line kept going on some quite some trays pilled up
<seb128> well at the end his password and ticket got lost somewhat
<seb128> no fun
<didrocks> ah, can be only a mistake then
<didrocks> yeah, no fun :/
<Q-FUNK> Heathrow?
<seb128> no, Orlando
<Q-FUNK> ah
<Q-FUNK> I keep on reading horror stories of people losing their keys, overpriced watch or passport while it's sitting in the tray at Heathrow.
<Q-FUNK> how was UDS Disney?
<seb128> Q-FUNK, quite good
<seb128> well I can see watches being stolen but not sure what happened to the passport
<didrocks> if the plane tickets have been taken as well, seems to be more an error
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> or the trays stacking pushed it somewhere in the tray line or something
<didrocks> yeah, possible
<Q-FUNK> they shouldn't allow trays to stack up or people to lose sight of their own tray.
<Q-FUNK> getting back to dev issues, any idea what could cause Bug #886833  in Lucid? where would I start to investigate this?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886833
<Q-FUNK> it doesn't affect gnome sessions if I logon via LDM with a thin client, so I'm puzzled as to what would cause it.
<seb128> not really, lucid don't change a lot nowadays ... could you check what packages get updates for you?
<Q-FUNK> what fetches them, you mean?
<Q-FUNK> unattended-updates, IIRC
<seb128> get updated
<seb128> did that happen after an upgrade?
<Q-FUNK> yup.  it worked fine until this summer.
<Q-FUNK> that's about the last time I logged onto that host locally via GDM
<Q-FUNK> I normally logon by remote via LDM with a thin client for desktop sessions and let unattended-upgrades fetch and install from -updates and -security.
<Q-FUNK> I have tried purging gdm and reinstalling, but that doesn't solve it.
<Q-FUNK> since it's my LTSP server, this one only gets updated from LTS to LTS+1.
<seb128> ok, not sure, that seems like an xorg or gtk issue...
<seb128> hum
<seb128> great, the banshee guys troll over blog posts about the UDS discussion and users spammed the etherpad
<didrocks> ok, on this positive note, I think it's time for me to take some rest to be 100% effective tomorrow :)
<didrocks> see you guys!
<Q-FUNK> that host uses nouveau, as its X driver
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> Laney, so about banshee, seems online discussions are parts based on non-fact but on after session etherpad spamming
<seb128> Laney, the session format is probably suboptimal but we didn't have a strict agenda, we mainly discussed what was brought up during the session
<seb128> i.e I had no clue we would discuss the music player there
<davidcalle> seb128, I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that the notes said at some point "Banshee is not well maintained". The truth being "we have no one maintaining Banshee on the Canonical side", it's unfortunate that it worded noted the way it was said during the session :/
<davidcalle> that is wasn't worded*
<popey> seb128: fyi if you want to slide backwards in time to get a copy of the pad before vandalism.. http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/latest
<seb128> popey, thanks
<seb128> davidcalle, the wording is maybe inappropriate but consensus around people there is that the oneiric version is quite buggy
<davidcalle> seb128, I agree, I was in the session.
<seb128> that was not the main driver behind the change though
<popey> seb128: version 1939 seems to be around the end of the discussion
<seb128> popey, it's probably before that, or the etherpad got spammed during the session
<seb128> like all the "port to vala" comments have nothing to do with what we discussed there
<seb128> the 10) % thing is weird, dunno where that's coming from
<popey> ah yes, nearer 1538
<seb128> yeah, that's closer I think
<seb128> a bit before that maybe
<seb128> dobey, hey
<seb128> dobey, did you try to alt-right-click to get the "add to panel"?
<Q-FUNK> seb128: confirmed. it's a nouveau issue. purposely purging -nouveau and letting X use -nv fixed it.
<seb128> ok, great
<Q-FUNK> turns out that nouveau tries to find its DRI files somewhere unexpected, as reported by X log
<micahg> jbicha or ricotz could you join #ubuntu-meeting to discuss the desktop-extra packageset?
<micahg> or anyone who can help us define vanilla GNOME :)
<Laney> seb128: I think there are some lessons that could be learned and it would be nice for something positive to come out of this
<seb128> Laney, indeed
<seb128> Laney, note that the decision is not totally made yet which is why there was no communication about it
<seb128> jasoncwarner_ needs at least to check with u1 and stakeholders if there would be any issue changing
<jbicha> seb128: pitti did announce at the final plenary that banshee & mono were being removed from the CD
<seb128> jbicha, that's what we are aiming for right
<TheMuso> seb128: Good evening. Suffering from jetlag?
<seb128> hey TheMuso, jetlag is ok, I managed to stay up until a reasonable time and had a good night yesterday
<seb128> what about you? had a good flight back?
<TheMuso> Yes, flight was uneventful thanks. Didn't feel like doing much yesterday when I got back, but went to bed early, and got up about half an hour ago, and am feeling much better, thanks.
<kirkland> is there a way to configure the unity launcher thing to only pop up when the mouse goes to the top left corner?
<kirkland> ah, found it
<maxb> kirkland: really, where?
<kirkland> maxb: ccsm, search unity, top option
<Gremuchnik> Hi.  Does anybody here have regrets about Ubuntu choosing Unity and the subsequent deluge of defections from Ubuntu to Mint, Xubuntu, Debian and other distros?
<JanC> Gremuchnik: there is no "deluge of defections"
<jbicha> Gremuchnik: that's quite off-topic but we don't have reliable numbers for how many users there are
<Gremuchnik> Dunno if you guys noticed already, but Linux Mint passed Ubuntu on Distrowatch in the last 7 days, 30 days, 3 months and even 6 months.  That does not even include figures for Xubuntu and others.
<JanC> the only thing to regret is that a significant number of power users have switched, and we lose people who can help lesser experienced users that way
<jbicha> distrowatch doesn't mean much
<Gremuchnik> if its off topic, sorry.
<JanC> distrowatch visitors are probably 1% of all Ubuntu users  ;)
<JanC> or less
<bjsnider> mint is an ubuntu variant
<Gremuchnik> bjsnider, yes, but one which has specifically rejected Unity and which will heavily modify G3
<jbicha> there's a lot more to Ubuntu than just Unity
<Gremuchnik> http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
<Gremuchnik> jbicha, yes, but the "a lot more" now will have to go through Unity
<bjsnider> distrowatch is probably being influenced by a bot
<bjsnider> awhile back pclinuxos was the #1 distro for a period of time obviously because of a bot
<JanC> bjsnider: it doesn't have t obe
<bjsnider> 6 people actually use it
<JanC> they count page visits
<bjsnider> right, so somebody builds a bot that looks at pages
<JanC> and I know for sure more than 6 people in Belgium alone used pclinuxos but now moved to mint  ;)
<JanC> in any case, they count only a small subset of linux users
<jbicha> http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq
<JanC> 99% of linux desktop user don't visit that site, or at least very, very infrequently
<Gremuchnik> well, I am sure that most GNU/Linux users do not visit DW, but I do think that its a not unrepresentative sample of a trend.  If you guys are all convinced that the imposition of Unity on the community did not create a negative backlash then I sure won't convince you otherwise.  Well, thanks for not being angry at me for raising the topic.  Cheers!
<bjsnider> JanC, i'm just kidding. i used texstar's mandrake packages back in the day. i might have used pclos if not for ubuntu
<bryceh> Gremuchnik, well, if you're right that users are switching at a high rate, then at least people can stop complaining that Canonical doesn't contribute anything to the larger ecosystem.  ;-)
<Gremuchnik> bryceh, I am just personally sad to see what I consider the flagship of all GNU/Linux distros (Ubuntu) shooting itself in the leg after making the best desktop I had ever seen (pre-Unity GNOME).  I am grateful to all that Ubuntu has done in the past and I am saddened by this.
<JanC> Gremuchnik: like I said, I am a bit concerned about the profile of the users that are moving away, but not about the number
<Gremuchnik> good night guys, and kind regards to you all
<bryceh> JanC, I agree; it's not really the size of your userbase that matters, it's how healthy the flow of ideas and other participation there is
<bryceh> linuxmint and xubuntu and so on are all still ubuntu under the hood, so there's still plenty of room for participation and ideas to flow.
<charlie-tca> +1
<JanC> bryceh: size is important too, at least to attract commercial support (including hardware support etc.)
<JanC> so you need both: lots of users who form a customer base for third parties & Canonical *and* a large enough number of experienced users who can advance/support ubuntu
<JanC> and both groups need each other âº
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-08
<64MAA2DVH> I did a zerofill and a reformated a entire 1TB disk, but now, in ext2 partitions, I can't create a directory with dolphin ... msg is Access denied to /media/722834cd-2063-499e-9446-893d41cd60c8/New Folder.
<64MAA2DVH> before my reformat it works
<TheMuso> 64MAA2DVH: Do you have write permission to the directory/file in question?
<64MAA2DVH> I should, it's a removable device
<64MAA2DVH> a 1TB disk in a USB case
<64MAA2DVH> or via e-sata
<broder> chronos: nothing gives you access to removable devices automatically, if they use a filesystem that has strong permissions (such as ext2)
<TheMuso> broder: Exactly what I was about to say. :)
<chronos> so with what user I should format these partitions?
<chronos> to get access
<chronos> this is my external disk, that I use every dau
<chronos> *day
<TheMuso> chronos: You just need to perform a chown on the root directory on tha tpartition.
<maxb> Also, is there a reason to use ext2 over ext3?
<TheMuso> Or even ext4.
<chronos> I use ext2 cause I put my external hd connected to a router :)
<chronos> TheMuso: and what should be the default user of this partition?//
<TheMuso> chronos: The user who is going to write to the drive.
<chronos> can be various users
<chronos> I put chmod 777 and group users
<cdbs> jasoncwarner_: there?
<cdbs> Hey guys, a quick question:
<cdbs> As for the RB vs Banshee discussion, would it be okay if I put up a poll on OMG! Ubuntu! asking readers to choose between those?
<cdbs> that would be a good way to check what the community things about the issue
<jbicha> I don't think this decision is a popularity contest
<cdbs> Well yes it isn't, but still, a good way to check out what the community things about it
<jbicha> personally I'm worried that there isn't an official stable release of GTK# for GTK3
<cdbs> Are we actually going to dump GTK2?
<bryceh> cdbs, check with jasoncwarner_
<cdbs> I doubt it
<cdbs> since Firefox will still remain GTK2
<cdbs> and so will TB
<bryceh> cdbs, if you do post it, just make sure to word it carefully
<cdbs> bryceh: exactly
<cdbs> I blame the recent flamewars because of the wording of articles in the blogosphere
<bryceh> yep
<cdbs> especially about the 750 MB thing
<bryceh> like, instead of posing it as "vote your choice between rhythmbox vs. banshee" do something like, "Which of these are your top concerns if ubuntu switched from banshee to rhythmbox"
<jbicha> Mozilla can make big changes in less than 3 months, but yes we likely won't be able to fully get rid of GTK2 on the CD this time
<jbicha> oh my math's wrong, <18 weeks
<cdbs> jbicha: that way I doubt if banshee NOT being gtk3 is a big issue
<jbicha> it actually is an issue: how well is mono being developed?
<cdbs> Don't say that
<cdbs> Xamarin is driving development really well
<cdbs> and the more issues against Mono are raised
<cdbs> the more the people will point out about Xamarin
<cdbs> since that point is quite wrong
<bjsnider> how well is rhythmbox being developed?
<jbicha> I don't actually use music players very much, but if we keep Banshee & Mono the lack of GTK3 support will be a question
<bjsnider> mono ain't going away
<bjsnider> last few times i tried to use rhythmbox it crashed out swiftly
<micahg> cdbs: gtk3 port for firefox is progressing
<cdbs> That's good to hdar
<cdbs> *hear
<cdbs> but I'm sure we might still have to stick gtk2 in, because of one app or something
<cdbs> there are still quite many apps using it
<cdbs> such as TB, s-c-p, software-sources (if I'm not mistaken), just to think of some
<cdbs> of course, these other apps can be ported quite easily
<cdbs> alright, I was wrong about software-properties-gtk
 * cdbs g2g
<dobey> people are arguing about that in here too? fun times.
<dobey> cdbs: btw, the banshee v rb article on omgubuntu already has a poll attached to it.
<bjsnider> just looking over the git repo for rb, there are a couple dozen commits per month, which is a lot more than i expected to see. so maybe it's better than i remember
<bjsnider> i don't thinkt he default app is really all that interesting. people can still use what they want
<dobey> yeah; see the blog post jono just made :)
<bjsnider> url?
<dobey> top of planet
<dobey> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/08/ubuntu-more-than-the-default-install/
<bjsnider> yeah, he's exactly right. you're limiting your experience quite a bit if you only use the default stuff
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<jasoncwarner_> hey, pitti...avoid ubuflu?
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: well, I already had it last week, I'm mostly through
<didrocks> good morning
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: ah, ok. seems seb128 is a bit under the weather.
<jasoncwarner_> morning didrocks
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_, guten morgen pitti
<pitti> seems the ML/blogosphere is exploding over the music player :(
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: wait, we still ship a music player? :P
<desrt> didrocks: damn you!
 * desrt is sick :(
<didrocks> desrt: urgh, sorry dude
 * desrt is in LHR with a headache due to air pressure
<pitti> isn't it nice to bring souvenirs back home? :/
 * desrt tries a shower
<chrisccoulson> good morning desktop team
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<desrt> good morning chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi desrt
<pitti> chrisccoulson: pretty well, ubuflu mostly gone
<pitti> chrisccoulson: how about yourself?
<desrt> pitti: you too, eh? :(
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i'm getting delayed ubuflu
<pitti> desrt: there's no escape!
<chrisccoulson> or, "flubuntu" as blake put it ;)
<desrt> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> desrt, did you get it too?
<desrt> chrisccoulson: ya.  just after i got back home the symptoms kicked into full gear
<desrt> and i just had a miserable head-exploding landing at LHR
<desrt> 2 hours ago and my ears still haven't sorted themselves yet
<chrisccoulson> that's not nice :(
<chrisccoulson> i hope you feel a bit better soon
<desrt> within the next 5 or 10 minutes would be nice :)
 * desrt takes some drugs
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<jasoncwarner_> morning chrisccoulson , how are things?
<chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner_. yeah, not too bad thanks. i think i'm mostly recovered from UDS now
<chrisccoulson> how about you?
<jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: pretty good, thanks. just trying to get two kids over jetlag. That is fun ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine ;)
<desrt> kids + jetlag.  hmm.
<desrt> never a thought that entered my head before
<jasoncwarner_> desrt: me neither, but oh man, I'm quite aware of that combination now!
<desrt> i imagine so...
<seb128> hey
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> lut didrocks, some ubuflu but good otherwise
<seb128> what about you?
<didrocks> end of my ubuflu (still some cough), but fine!
<pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
<seb128> hey pitti, ubutflued but otherwise ok
<seb128> what about you?
<pitti> seb128: ubuflu is mostly gone
<seb128> what about jetlag?
<hyperair> did a flu spread around UDS or something?
<pitti> that went surprisingly well
<pitti> hyperair: pretty much every time :)
<hyperair> hahah
 * hyperair looks forward to attending UDS someday when i no longer need to study for exams
<pitti> seb128: I went to bed at 10 on Sunday and woke up at 6, same yesterday/today, so no problem at all
<seb128> good, almost the same here, went to bed at 11pm and woke up at 10am the next day
<seb128> then midnight to 10 today
<seb128> shrug, hate online rants about app selections
<seb128> especially when they are partially based on after session etherpad spamming and not on the real discussion
 * hyperair is guilty for a bit of the spam
<hyperair> whoops.
<hyperair> i'm kinda interested to know whose brilliant idea it was to port banshee to vala though.
<pitti> I think we can safely discard that :)
<pitti> there's a lot of oddity on that pad
<pitti> 50.92348239 %, haha
<hyperair> oh yeah, that
<hyperair> it was there before i woke up
<hyperair> if you added the two percentages together, you get more than 100%
<hyperair> heheh
<pitti> "71.342 % of all statistics have too precise numbers, and 103 % of statistics contain at least one invalid number"
<pitti> hyperair: well, that's fine
<pitti> you can use both at the same time
<pitti> especially with multiple users
<hyperair> right.
<pitti> but the precision is absurd, and there is no reference to where these numbers came from
<hyperair> hahah
<pitti> also, there will be a huge bias for whichever app is installed by default
<pitti> which is RB <= lucid and Banshee >= maverick
<pitti> so you also need to partition the statistics at that point
<hyperair> hmm yes that's true
<pitti> anyway, I don't think we have a good way of measuring this, and I don't think having it would actually help us much
<seb128> vala> that was not even mentioned in the session
<hyperair> but for users who upgraded from lucid to maverick, do they continue using rhythmbox or start using banshee?
<seb128> that's etherpad spamming
<pitti> hyperair: 'zactly
<seb128> we never change applications under user feet
<didrocks> jibel: hey, how are you?
<pitti> it depends on the user's preference
<seb128> they can keep running what they were using
<hyperair> pitti: supposing the user has no preference. what happens?
<pitti> hyperair: you must have one, as you now have two players installed
<hyperair> i mean banshee had a clear upgrade path from rhythmbox, but i think you still had to make a conscious decision to change to bnashee
<pitti> hyperair: my gut feeling is that more people will continue to use what they got used to, but some might actually try the new one
<hyperair> pitti: how is the new one presented to the user anyway?
<pitti> but just as everyone else the only thing I have is some totally non-representative anecdotal stories, no representative numbers
<pitti> hyperair: they both appear in teh sound indicator, and of course in the menus/unity search
<hyperair> pitti: default mime handler changes, though?
<pitti> hyperair: for playlists? yes, I think that switched over
<hyperair> eh no i'm not talking about playlists
<hyperair> i'm talking about double clicking random audio files on the desktop
<hyperair> or say selecting "open" in firefox when downloading stuff
<pitti> hyperair: totem
<hyperair> ah, right, it was totem.
<pitti> it's still the right choice for playing individual files, as you don't want to import them into your library first, etc.
<hyperair> banshee has a "file system queue" for playing individual files
<hyperair> so it all works out fine if the default handler was banshee
<hyperair> in fact, it is the default handler for audio files in oneiric.
<pitti> ah, someone might have switched that over in 11.10 then
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, after accidentally clicking the search button in nautilus, is there no way to get rid of the search bar without closing the window?
<hyperair> pitti: yeah, i did.
<pitti> chrisccoulson: Esc doesn't work?
<hyperair> pitti: there was a bug where totem was the default music player in gnome3's default things
<pitti> chrisccoulson: which search button?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it doesn't seem to work
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: it should. are you sure it's not segfaulting?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - the search button on the right hand side of the toolbar
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: works for me.
<chrisccoulson> hyperair, yeah, nautilus works fine. just with a search bar that i can't get rid of
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: no, i mean esc removes the search bar in nautilus for me
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: since when has esc closed nautilus windows anyway? O_o
<pitti> chrisccoulson: esc works here
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, now i closed the window and tried again, and esc works for me too
<chrisccoulson> but it definitely did not work just a moment ago :/
<hyperair> heh
<hyperair> are you sure it didn't segfault?
<hyperair> and yes, while we're on the topic of nautilus bugs, can we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/879456 in -proposed please?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879456 in nautilus "Typeahead functionality for nautilus is broken" [High,Triaged]
<hyperair> hmm i could have sworn i subscribed ubuntu-sponsors and ubuntu-sru to that bug.
<hyperair> oh yeah both teams are subscribed.
<hyperair> chrisccoulson: ^
<pitti> seb128: ugh @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~seb128/+specs?role=drafter&searchtext=desktop-p
<pitti> seb128: I can draft https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed if you want me to, and set you as approver instead
<seb128> pitti, why "ugh", I guess that's because nobody else than me spammed the list with topics before UDS :p
<pitti> seb128: well, many of them will be small, like gnome version and bugs,bugs,bugs
<seb128> pitti, you are welcome to do so if you want
<seb128> pitti, yeah, half the list is "informative", like the vnc or video player ones are not specs, they were topics to raise for discussion that we sorted on the list
<pitti> seb128: grabbed boot speed then
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> seb128: VNC does have WIs, though, at least for the MIRs and seed changes?
<huats> morning
<seb128> pitti, oh, I didn't check, they maybe hijacked it for the freerdp remmina discussion
<pitti> btw, please link the MIR bug instead of adding a whiteboard WI item, better for tracking
<seb128> pitti, I will review those today
<pitti> seb128: I thought that's what this BP was all about
<seb128> lut huats, bien rentrÃ© ?
<huats> hello seb128
<pitti> seb128: but anyway, please let me know if you have many big ones you need help with
<huats> yes
<huats> et toi,
<huats> ?
<pitti> seb128: I'll draft the boot speed one now
<seb128> pitti, ok, maybe I got confused, there was one about vino being bugged and not redrawing correctly on nvidia and ati drivers
<seb128> pitti, which turned to be a driver issue and that was descoped
<seb128> huats, no problem from my side ;-)
<huats> cool
<rickspencer3> hi huats
<huats> rickspencer3: hey :)
<huats> long time since I saw you !
<rickspencer3> huats, indeed
<seb128> rickspencer3, salut, bien rentrÃ© ?
<rickspencer3> seb128, oui oui
<rickspencer3> naturalament, j'ai prix un jour en Amsterdam
<rickspencer3> dimanche
<rickspencer3> aujourd'hui je vais travailler avec huats in leur beaurau :)
<seb128> une journÃ©e pour rÃ©cupÃ©rer du voyage et du dÃ©calage horaire ? ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, est tois?
<seb128> oh, bien
<seb128> rickspencer3, je suis bien rentrÃ©, rien de spÃ©cial Ã  signaler durant le voyage
<huats> seb128: on va travailler le franÃ§aisde rickspencer3 !
<seb128> je me suis couchÃ© Ã  23h et levÃ© 10h, pas de dÃ©calage horaire !
<seb128> huats, bien! ;-)
<seb128> urg, new banshee in precise
<seb128> is 2.4 going to be gtk2 or gtk3?
<pitti> didrocks: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-unity-quality > don't forget to add "Work items:" before each WI paragraph
<didrocks> pitti: right, I'm just doing the first pass with WI right now, then, I'll add the alpha1/2â¦, and such don't want to spam your script before
<pitti> didrocks: ah, ok
<pitti> didrocks: the WI tracker is not running for precise yet, though
<pitti> oh, wait, it is now
<pitti> nice
<pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/
<didrocks> pitti: I'll add them when knowing which target to aim for :)
<pitti> seb128: done with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed, in your approval queue now
<seb128> pitti, danke
<rodrigo_> hello
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, seb128
<rodrigo_> now recovered, after 12 hours sleep last night :)
<rodrigo_> everyone back home safely?
<seb128> seems so ;-)
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_!
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<seb128> some people lost their passports or baggages on the way but everybody made it at the end
<rodrigo_> oh, lost password? who? and how did they get out of the US without it?
<rodrigo_> passport, not password :)
<pitti> seb128: did you hear back from him? I didn't
<pitti> rodrigo_: he lost it after the security check
<rodrigo_> ah
<pitti> apparently someone else took it
<mhr3> rodrigo_, i did
<seb128> pitti, he was in the plane with us and he said he made it home yesterday
<rodrigo_> mhr3, oh, suck :(
<seb128> hey mhr3, how are you?
<pitti> hey mhr3, good that you made it; did someone bother you when you arrived?
<mhr3> seb128, good thx, also slept a while yesterday, but it's easier than getting used to us
<mhr3> pitti, nah, in germany it was fine, fortunatelly i had my national id which is good enough here
<mhr3> and they found my passport in the us yesterday ("just" 14 hours after my departure)
<rodrigo_> I only had one issue also, but yesterday in Madrid with a f***ng taxi driver
<rodrigo_> they are bandits in madrid
<mhr3> so i'm arranging how to deliver it here...
<rodrigo_> I didn't have cash so he tried with 2 credit cards and the machine said the payment didn't work, so went to an ATM to get cash, paid him
<pitti> rodrigo_: so you paid him three times?
<rodrigo_> and then got a sms for my 2 cards being charged with the amount
<rodrigo_> yes, I need to go to the police now, so that my bank can cancel the payments
<rodrigo_> I am from Madrid and I know the taxi drivers there suck, not sure what I was thinking about when I wanted to pay with a credit card
<rodrigo_> I guess I was too sleepy
<chrisccoulson> wow, metacity just crashed for the first time in ages
<rodrigo_> hey kamusin
<kamusin> hola rodrigo_, how is it going!
<rodrigo_> kamusin, we missed you in orlando :(
<rodrigo_> did pedro brought you the mickey mouse ears? :D
<kamusin> I know I know, me too :( ...  I told him but am not sure.. I think he is in the country side in this moment
<seif> hi rodrigo_
<seif> rodrigo_, where r u based?
<rodrigo_> hi seif
<seif> hi davidcalle
<rodrigo_> seif, pamplona, spain
<davidcalle> hi seif
<seif> davidcalle, i am supposed to contact you for the unity-ppl-lens
<seif> rodrigo_, and i am supposed ot work with you on getting alm into g-c-c
<rodrigo_> seif, hey, you said you didn't want to work with me!! :D
<davidcalle> seif, yeah and I'm supposed to contact a Canonical designer about it.
<seif> rodrigo_, i was kidding
<seif> i love you
<seif> :P
<rodrigo_> seif, I know :)
<davidcalle> seif, I believe you already have a branch (from last year ?) for it.
<rodrigo_> love you too :D
<seif> davidcalle, yes i do
<seif> i would love to take a stab at it again
<seif> rewrite in vala
<seif> rodrigo_, as for the ALM afaik john lea liked our UI
<seif> so its all about converting it to vala and adding it into the g-c-c
<rodrigo_> yes
<rodrigo_> although libgnome-control-center doesn't exist anymore in g-c-c, it's all in the g-c-c binary
<rodrigo_> so we'd need to integrate it into g-c-c proper
<seif> yeah
<seif> still ok
<seif> :)
<davidcalle> seif, I'd like to make a python prototype with what design will give us. Kenvandine should be in the loop too as I believe it will be more like a social lens.
<seif> davidcalle, ok my work was in python
<seif> but i dont think it is up2date with libfolks
<davidcalle> seif, but if you want to port yours to vala, we can iterate on it. It's just that I prefer prototyping in python, but that's not a big deal, I will adapt. :)
<seif> davidcalle, u kidding i love prototyping in python
<seif> :)
<davidcalle> great :)
<seif> davidcalle, its what i thnk the desktop team needs
<seif> more python prototypers
<davidcalle> dbarth ^ ;)
<seif> davidcalle, we need a OUDIRC movement
<seif> Occupy Ubuntu Desktop IRC
<seif> demand more python prototyping
<davidcalle> Hehe
<davidcalle> seif, I will ping Mika from design tomorrow. Do you know the latest libunity lens API?
<seif> davidcalle, i can read it today
<seif> davidcalle, should not be a big deal
<seif> i mean once u go through hacking extensions for gnome shell i think everything is doable
<pitti> chrisccoulson: should we really keep https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad targetted to precise, or should I move to q?
<davidcalle> seif, https://code.launchpad.net/onehundredscopes there is a template for a lens in trunk, and scopes in other branches.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - it's definitely something i'd like to work on in precise. but it's quite low priority
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-pgo-builds ?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i guess that one's really just a matter of trying a build again
<seb128> re
<seb128> (back from lunch)
<seb128> pitti, I bounced some drafting to others (i.e bugs bugs bugs to pedro) I hope it's ok
<seif> davidcalle, awesome
<seb128> or calendar to chrisccoulson
<pitti> seif: sure
<seif> pitti, are u flirting with me
<seif> ?
<pitti> hey seif
<pitti> seif: no, I'm just too dumb to use Tab properly :0
<seif> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> seb128, is it fixed yet?
<pitti> seb128: sure
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
<chrisccoulson> :-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, speaking of which federico was mentioning on #gnome-hackers working on docking issues yesterday, I wonder if that's the dual event bug he was talking about
<jbicha> chrisccoulson: I built Firefox with xz compression yesterday and saved a few MB https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/dev/+build/2907821
<jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/2906350
<seb128> hey jbicha, how are you?
<jbicha> seb128: I'm fine, I had allergies bad or something for a few days but I'm doing better today
<seb128> oh, good that you are better then!
<jbicha> I hope so :)
<jbicha> I can't tell the difference between a cold and bad allergies though
<seb128> you perhaps just got ubuflu as well
<seb128> seems quite some people were sick this time
<pitti> for me it was mostly sore throat and some nose congestion, I felt quite fine otherwise (no fever, no headache, etc.)
<pitti> seemed mostly an immune system's "preemtive strike"
<pitti> was it much worse for you?
<seb128> well I've no fever or headache but running nose which is turning in a cough
<seb128> it's mostly annoying, I don't feel tired or bad
<seb128> bah
<seb128> http://www.generation-nt.com/ubuntu-precise-pangolin-taille-cd-actualite-1499441.html
<seb128> title "Ubuntu will not longer fit on a CD"
<seb128> we should really do a better job at communicating what happens at UDS with the outside
<rickspencer3> seb128, "we should really do a better job at communicating what happens at UDS with the outside"
<rickspencer3> it's only 2 days after UDS!
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's enough for quite some people picking up infos from etherpads and doing blog or online article about those
<rickspencer3> seb128, is it the case that the "DVD image" will be < 750 megs, but there will still be a CD image?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I know, and people like to write inflammatory things, without necessarily fact checking first
<seb128> rickspencer3, well, the sabdfl agree to bump the CD limit to 750mb when we will need it during the session but consensus is that we will probably don't need it in precise
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<seb128> so precise should still fit on a CD
<rickspencer3> seb128, are we still considering the DVD image to be the "target" image for Precise?
<rickspencer3> and making it fit on a 2meg stick?
<rickspencer3> <1.5 gig?
<pitti> AFAIUI not
<pitti> i. e. what ubuntu.com will offer will still be the CD, as long as we have it
<seb128> rickspencer3, not really, from the session the sabdfl would like us to drop the 1.5g image to reduce duplication and testing
<pitti> and for +1 we'll only have one image which will then be 750 MB
<pitti> (which is certainly a bit strange)
<rickspencer3> pitti, well 750 fits on a 1gig stick, that's pretty cheap
<rickspencer3> fits and makes a nice enduring live image
<chrisccoulson> heh, yes, we definitely need to do a better job of communicating decisions made at UDS ;)
<rickspencer3> so, no DVD image?
<seb128> rickspencer3, the consensus from the session was to use pitti's localized image tools to allow users to create an iso with more than the standard set but not provide any of those directly
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, seb128 I said "it's only been 2 days" to say "it's not too late to communicate about it"
<seb128> rickspencer3, i.e we would have a standard CD iso and a tools that allow to build a custom iso with that basis and any additional packages you might want
<rickspencer3> so, no more DVD image for 12.04?
<pitti> "stop thinking that everything that anyone at UDS or on an etherpad ever said is a firm decision, or even being considered"
<seb128> pitti, right...
<seb128> rickspencer3, well, I don't think there was a strong decision made at the session and it depends if we can get the "build your own custom iso" done tool working good enough to deprecate the dvd need
<jbicha> but the blogs and news sites don't want to wait to report what is happening
<rickspencer3> jbicha, well, the blogs don't care to report what is happening, they thrive on contoversy
<seb128> we should perhaps think about wrapping up the session with a 1 line summary
<rickspencer3> thus, you will not see any fact checking from those "sources"
<seb128> not sure that would make a big difference but it would allow people to have a somewhat official summary of what was decided
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, the summary is supposed to build itself from the work item tracker
<rickspencer3> that is supposed to represent the work that was decided to be done, and that usually comes after UDS
<seb128> right, out of the fact that we do the synthesis work when drafting after UDS
<seb128> the etherpad tends to be a notes dump until somebody who was at the session do shuffle things around and do a proper job at writing the blueprint
<seb128> right
<seb128> well there is maybe not an issue there out of people who like to make some buzz from whatever they can get
<seb128> which will indeed not stop since that's what they aim at doing
<Laney> you should not be worried too much about people who don't contribute anything
<seb128> Laney, well seems even people contributing pick random wrong infos from etherpad
<seb128> Laney, seeing the blogs about banshee
<Laney> talking about jo?
<seb128> not especially, just about comments on the internet, blog posts, etc
<seb128> including yours or the replies to the desktop list
<seb128> some of the points raised in those discussions didn't even get mentioned during the session, they are just notes user dumped on the etherpad afterwards that others picked for discussions online
<seb128> we should perhaps have a way to "lock" the etherpad after the session
<Laney> the 'facts' stated in that plus thread came from someone who was in the session
<hyperair> +1 for locking etherpad
<Laney> it was pretty obvious to me that the pad was vandalised
<seb128> well things like vala or armel didn't get mentioned in the session
<hyperair> Laney: which plus thread?
<Laney> dnielsen
<hyperair> oh that
<jbicha> http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.0-status.html
<seb128> seems quite some people picked up on the armel state in online comments
<Laney> ogra mentioned it in the closing plenary
<seb128> which was not something we discussed during the session
<seb128> well, nothing to do with the session or decision
 * rodrigo_ lucnh
<seb128> jbicha, yes? is there anything we should check there?
<Laney> anyway, like I've said before and like directhex is trying to say, a UDS session is not the best way to begin such conversations
<seb128> jbicha, you probably want http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.2-status.html
<Laney> better would be to raise things between release and uds
<seb128> Laney, right, no disagreement on that and it was not planned to be handled this way
<Laney> like you did with other topics in fact
<seb128> the session got somewhat hijacked with the topic
<Laney> it could have been headed off by having discussions before
<seb128> Laney, well I honestly didn't plan to discuss the music player at UDS
<seb128> it came as a surprise that it was started being discussed during the session
<Laney> I believe you, and I didn't think it would come up either otherwise I woul dhave gone
<seb128> but lesson learned, next time we will do a call for topics on that session in advance
<seb128> then "lock" the agenda
<Laney> great
<seb128> Laney, note that the decision is not made yet, we had a sort of consensus between people in the session which is a basis but jasoncwarner_ just started the discussion on the ubuntu-desktop list
<seb128> the whole topic handling has been poor so far sorry about that
<Laney> what made it sound like a decision to me was when pitti announced it
<seb128> but there is no thing to turn things into frustration yet
<seb128> yeah, the short summary things is suboptimal as well, it's things we will look at, not things which are done deals
<jbicha> seb128: no, just that 3.0 finished landed in testing last night
<Laney> I still haven't restart my session at work since 3.0 landed :-)
<Laney> scared
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, I noticed, some blogs from unhappy users today ;-)
<seb128> I'm a bit surprised that 3.0 moved that easily to testing
<Laney> took quite a while to get transition slots
<seb128> right, well it's rather that I'm bit surprised that nobody tried to stop it because GNOME3 was dropping too many features people are using
<seb128> or tried to argue that GNOME 3.2 is a bit iteration and rather what should go to testing as the first GNOME3 version
<seb128> GNOME 3.0 has some limitations and rough edges
<seb128> I would have though that Debian standards would have pushed for extra work happening before GNOME3 would hit testing
<mterry> pitti, heyo, got a python-distutils-extra question for ya
<pitti> hey mterry
<mterry> pitti, I'm porting quickly projects to use PyGI, and when auto.py processes the file, the Gtk import causes a crash because nowadays PyGI's Gtk module apparently requires DISPLAY and will bail if it doesn't see it
<pitti> mterry: oh, I thought crashing imports were gracefully handled now
<mterry> pitti, yeah, that was one thing I was wondering
 * kenvandine is updating to precise
<mterry> pitti, does the code not catch RuntimeError ?
<pitti>     except RuntimeError: # When Gdk can't be initialized
<pitti>         return False
<pitti> mterry: it does
<pitti> kenvandine: good luck (seems to be tame, though)
<mterry> pitti, hmmm, I see that too.  I'll dig into it
<pitti> mterry: but I guess it throws up somewhere else, so we should add a test case for this; do you have a sample file which reproduces it?
<mterry> pitti, yeah, but it may not be as tiny a test case as it can be yet
<mterry> pitti, ah...  the code that does the importing...  when it's a relative port, it doesn't catch Value or Runtime errors.  It only catches those on a regular imoprt
<mterry> pitti, lp:~mterry/python-distutils-extra/relative-errors
<seb128> btw I've started added notes about things we will update to 3.4 or not to the etherpad
<mterry> oh, but I should add a test case to that branch I suppose
<seb128> jbicha, ^
<pitti> mterry: oh, nice! what's the import statement there, for a test case?
<mterry> pitti, in one file, "from . Builder import Builder" and then in Builder.py, "from gi.repository import Gtk" which causes the error.  but for test case, I suppose it could just be "raise RuntimeError"
<pitti> mterry: I think I reproduced it
<mterry> pitti, nice
<pitti> now with the test case it fails differently
<mterry> pitti, hm?
<pitti> mterry: I'm on it
<mterry> pitti, cool.  Once you have it all figured out, I'd appreciate an upload to precise.  This is the last piece of the puzzle for the giant gtk3/pygi/gsettings migration in quickly
<mterry> I hate that all of that has to happen at once.  stupid pygi
<mterry> pitti, was the other error in python-mkdebian?  I just hit that
<pitti> mterry: no, within auto.py
<pitti> mterry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/732099/ is what I'm trying
<mterry> pitti, after fixing it locally, I ran into it again on line 285 of python-mkdebian
<mterry> pitti, I can get by it adding except lines, but then it doesn't notice that it needs to add gir1.2-gtk-3.0
<pitti> that was rev 261.1.1, fairly recent
<pitti> mterry: I think for gi.repository we should just do string mangling
<pitti> at least if it fails to import
<pitti> we still need to figure out the version, though, hmm
<mterry> pitti, you could find the highest version installed...  Which wouldn't necessarily be the right one if they used gi.require_version...
<pitti> mterry: ok, merged with test case, and fixed the followup bug (yay test cases..)
<pitti> mterry: I suppose I should hold back the upload until that mkdebian bug is fixed, too?
<mterry> pitti, yeah, wouldn't help my use case without that one fixed too
<pitti> mterry: hm, merely running mkdebian in apport trunk doesn't reproduce it; it doesn't even pick up Gtk, hmm
<pitti>    apt_pkg ... [dpkg -S found more than one extension: python-apt-dbg, python-apt; ignoring] [not found]
<pitti> that's another interesting bug, fixing
<mterry> hmm
<pitti> presumably because gtk/ is not in its standard search path
<pitti> oh, of course I should run it without $DISPLAY
<pitti> mterry: ^
<pitti> mterry: so you actually run quickly not under X?
<pitti> that seems rather a corner case to me?
<mterry> pitti, the tests run without DISPLAY. normal quickly runs with it
<pitti> with DISPLAY it works quite fine
<pitti> Searching packages which provide required Python modules:
<pitti>    gi.repository.Gtk ... gir1.2-gtk-3.0
<mterry> pitti, yeah, it works fine with DISPLAY
<pitti> mterry: if that's blocking you, would it be absolutely unthinkable to run the tests through xvfb?
<pitti> mterry: I'm sure we can fix this in some better way, but I can't get to this today any more (I'm about to wrap up)
<mterry> pitti, sure.  no problem.  I can do hte xvfb thing, it will just require some rejiggering elsewhere
<mterry> pitti, thanks!
<pitti> mterry: alternatively, would it be enough to fix the crash, or do you need the dependency in the tests?
<pitti> mterry: (you could check if gir1.2-glib-2.0 is generated)
<mterry> pitti, true that I can set it up so the test doesn't need it.  Certainly fixing the crash would help
<pitti> mterry: fixed in bzr
<pitti> mterry: want me to upload now?
<mterry> pitti, yes please.  thanks!
<mterry> pitti, i confirm that my tests will be fine with the crasher fixed
<pitti> mterry: uploaded to sid and precise
<mterry> didrocks, what are all these foo quickly branches?  Did you get hacked?  ;)
<didrocks> mterry: no, sorry, using this one for testing unity tarmac <-> jenkins integration branch, do you get spammed by those? :)
<mterry> didrocks, no, just happened to look at the list of branches
<mterry> didrocks, because I have a giant merge for review....  just saying...
 * didrocks whistles
<pitti> godo night everyone!
<mterry> pitti, gn!
<didrocks> have a good night pitti!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? poke, is it fixed yet? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet ;)
<chrisccoulson_> did your indicator stay blue?
<seb128> lol
<seb128> that's a lame thing to do :p
<chrisccoulson_> lol
<chrisccoulson_> i couldn't resist :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, the oneiric version of the indicator as a "clear" entry ;-)
<seb128> that doesn't clear the counts but the blue
<chrisccoulson_> ah, that's not as much fun
<hrw> hi
<seb128> which is something ;-)
<seb128> hey hrw
<chrisccoulson_> hrw, you're brave coming in here ;)
<hrw> what do I have to install to get unity 3d/2d working (except 'ubuntu-desktop' metapackage)?
<chrisccoulson_> i think it's required that everyone in here speaks french now
<chrisccoulson_> :-)
<hrw> chrisccoulson_: I know
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, lol
<hrw> I have precise on my desktop, ubuntu-desktop installed, logged to fresh user (empty $HOME) and unity3d does not even start (from lightdm) and unity2d starts without launcher (present: background, top panel with indicators)
<hrw> radeon 5450 with opensource driver
<chrisccoulson_> ah, i'm not running precise yet
<chrisccoulson_> but if there really are things missing, you could try running "sudo apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends"
<hrw> chrisccoulson_: I have oneiric only on headless machines now
<chrisccoulson_> i think that's the magic to install missing recommends. no guarantees that would fix your issue though ;)
<seb128> unity should work on precise
<chrisccoulson_> what is in ~/.xsession-errors?
<seb128> you can probably apt-cache search unity-2d and install the ones listed
<hrw> 7 upgraded, 185 newly installed, 19 to remove and 19 not upgraded.
<hrw> Need to get 551 MB of archives.
<hrw> After this operation, 750 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<hrw> will see in few minutes
<hrw> then lot of work with debfoster ;(
<seb128> well you can read the list and see what has unity in the same
<seb128> same->name
<hrw> chrisccoulson_: ~/.xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/732212/
<hrw> k, fetched
<chrisccoulson_> hrw, ah, unity-2d-panel aborts with an X error
<chrisccoulson_> that's going to be fun to debug :(
<seb128> well unity-panel-service is not installed from the log
<seb128> not sure if that's enough to break unity-2d-panel
<hrw> standard 'lets make it nearly optional (aka: recommended)' way?
<chrisccoulson_> not sure. IME, the panel just doesn't do anything if there is no panel service, but it doesn't crash
<hrw> is there a way to disable 'run n-th app from launcher' on Meta-n (where n=[0-9])?
<chrisccoulson_> i'm not sure. didrocks might be able to answer that
<hrw> ccsm has lot of crazy switches ;)
<seb128> you can probably remap super
<seb128> note that ccsm is for 3d only
<didrocks> hrw: it's possible if you change the "super" to reveal launcher
<seb128> 2d doesn't use compiz
<hrw> seb128: once 3d will start I will play a bit with it
<chrisccoulson> i wish we could make ccsm disappear
<hrw> relogin...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well ccsm is not really an issue by itself, it's only an issue for a class for users who know enough to want to hurt themself, most users will not see it
<achiang> how can i turn on ffm? i did a fresh install of oneiric and can't figure it out now. :-/
<seb128> but it would be nice we solve enough issues this cycle that users don't feel compelled to get ccsm to tweak things
<chrisccoulson> seb128, unfortunately it's too easy for people to shoot themselves in the foot. especially as you need to only press the "Preferences" button in ccsm to destroy your session and lose unity :(
<seb128> achiang, it's likely somewhere in gconf
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah..
<achiang> also, i can't seem to configure a key to switch workspaces anymore... i used to have this mapped to alt-[1234] but trying that in the preferences doesn't seem to work
<hrw> byobu
<hrw> ok, rebooted machine and now monitor went to powermode ;(
<achiang> seb128: ah, interesting, compiz reads metacity gconf keys?
<seb128> achiang, it does for some stuff yes
<achiang> got it, thanks
<seb128> yw
<hrw> ok, unity/3d started
<hrw> and first translation bug spotted
<achiang> oops, i think i just found the bug chrisccoulson mentioned
<achiang> ccsm feels like i'm walking around with a loaded shotgun pointed at my crotch
<chrisccoulson> achiang, yeah, that's what i said at UDS ;)
<hrw> achiang: but if you want to configure unity desktop you often need it ;(
<chrisccoulson> achiang, if you've broken your session, you can remove ~/.config/compiz-1 to fix it
 * achiang goes for a reboot
<achiang> chrisccoulson: thanks
<achiang> chrisccoulson: thanks, that was necessary to get my session back
 * achiang vows to never load ccsm again
<hrw> ok, time to go - will be back tomorrow
<kirkland> hrw: byobu?
<jbicha> kirkland: I am trying the byobu-tmux in Precise, the Alt-left/right shortcut overrides the shortcut I'm using in irssi
<kirkland> jbicha: append to ~/.byobu/profile.tmux:
<kirkland> bind-key -n M-left
<kirkland> bind-key -n M-right
<kirkland> jbicha: that should clear them
<kirkland> jbicha: and just use F3/F4 as usual
<kirkland> jbicha: is that something custom you use for irssi, or is that default irssi?
<jbicha> kirkland: I'm not sure, I used a guide when I set up irssi
<jbicha> do you have documentation for the fancy tmux keyboard shortcuts you showed off in your lightning talk? I don't see the video of that posted yet
<kirkland> jbicha: not yet, but that's a great question/todo for me
<kirkland> jbicha: I'll knock that out today
<kirkland> jbicha: you're welcome to file a bug on that, if you want to make damn sure I do it :-)
<jbicha> I'll give you a few days first :)
 * didrocks waves good evening
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> good night seb128 :)
<CarlFK> trying to keep the "incomplete language support" alert from coming up on a fresh install.  I don't care that it is incomplete.  I don't care if I install what it wants or just prevent it from coming up.
<CarlFK> I did apt-get install the packages, but it still wants to show me the "language support" gui
<achiang> cyphermox: hey, what version of NM do you plan on moving to for Precise?
<achiang> cyphermox: nevermind, my real question was around MM and i found the etherpad notes (0.5 => 0.6)
<TheMuso> Ok, since Robert is not around atm, and Chris is off this week, and Jason is ont likely to be around? I wonder whether a meeting is worthwhile.
<jbicha> early shift didn't have a meeting
<jbicha> there isn't even a wiki page for one
<TheMuso> Well that answers that questino, since I didn't even receive a reminder. :)
<TheMuso> *question
<TheMuso> gah typing
<bryceh> TheMuso, ah I even forgot it was Tuesday
<bryceh> TheMuso, yeah I seriously doubt we have anything to discuss for one day of work. ;-)
<bryceh> TheMuso, I patch piloted yesterday so particularly have nothing newsworthy done
<TheMuso> Np, I've not done much since I got back other than catch up on email I ignored last week, mostly bugmail, and did some work items tweakage.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-09
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Feeling much better thanks. Caught up on sleep and feel I have beaten a slight bug I caught whilst being run down from my trip.
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> good morning
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, didrocks
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
 * rodrigo_ goes (again) to the police station, bbiab
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> pretty well, thanks! how about you?
<pitti> still jetlagged?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm pretty tired this morning still
<chrisccoulson> i was up quite late trying to figure out an addon upgrade issue which is blocking the firefox security update, with little success
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: can't complain, pretty good
<pitti> I'm waking up like clockwork, just had some trouble getting to sleep yesterday
<seb128> bryceh, you made people unhappy on bug #868400 by setting it incomplete where it gets angry comment almost every day
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868400 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad stops working" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
<seb128> bryceh, if that's a bot reply you might want to update the bot logic to not incomplete active bugs
<seb128> pitti, I've no trouble getting to sleep but I've trouble getting up ;-)
<pitti> I'm sure it is a bot reply
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<pitti> I also got one for one of my bugs, I just set it back to triaged with a comment
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, stop spending your nights working!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> pitti, yeah, probably a bot reply, just unfortunate which it landed on an annoying bug where users are actively commented (and being ignored by us so far)
<seb128> commenting
<hrw> hi
<mhr3> pitti, would i see in apport-filed bug that the user has two graphic cards? like there's the "GraphicsCard:" line, would multiple be listed?
<hrw> first day of using unity for work - want me to report any issue?
<seb128> hey hrw
<seb128> if you have bugs you can check in launchpad if they have been filed and file them if not
<hrw> sure
<seb128> hrw, if you want to discuss unity on IRC maybe better to use #ayatana that's where dx (those who write the code) hang out
<seb128> you can also mention those here but you will reach mainly the packagers, not the upstreams
<hrw> ok
<chrisccoulson> and if you use the ayatana mailing list, you have to use the words "Fitt's Law" at least once in your messages :)
<hrw> ?
<chrisccoulson> hrw, that was an attempt at sarcasm ;)
<hrw> ah
<chrisccoulson> not sure if you read that mailing list or not
<hrw> chrisccoulson: no, I do not
<chrisccoulson> ah :)
<hrw> so far with gnome-control-center + gnome-tweak-tool + ubuntu-tweak I got something which reminds previous setup (as long as I do not try to use Super+[1-9] to switch destops and ignore panels)
<seb128> seems like users try to copy their old way to work when switching
<seb128> not sure that's the best thing to do, I would recommend trying to use a rather stock unity for a while and figure what works or not for you
<seb128> you might be surprised and find that some things are nice and work better than the "old way"
<seb128> then you know what to adapt or not
<hrw> seb128: but how do I switch to destktop where I have terminal + 4 gvim windows? in other way then ctrl-alt-left multiple time
<seb128> you can set keybidings for workspace switching in the GNOME control center
<seb128> or in ccsm
<seb128> (stay away from ccsm if you can, it cna be destructive)
<hrw> ccsm is nightmare indeed
<hrw> seb128: bug 886812 looks to be duplicate of bug 867502
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886812 in gnome-control-center "window does not scale up and is not resizable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886812
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 867502 in gnome-control-center "The system settings window is a bit too small with some themes" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867502
<seb128> hrw, thanks, feel free to mark it as such
<hrw> done and commented
<seb128> thanks
<hrw> btw - how to setup WM to alt-tab first inside of desktop?
<hrw> destkop1=terminal, gnome-control-center and alt-tab switches me to firefox on desktop2 when I am in terminal
<seb128> you can unmap in unity alt-tab in ccsm and use the old switcher instead if you want
<hrw> so it is by design?
<hrw> bug 842475 exists already
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 842475 in unity "No way to switch quickly between windows (or apps) on the same desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/842475
<hrw> is it normal that when I switch to firefox (Start+2) I am not able to type in window and have to activate other app and then firefox again to have it working?
<hrw> seb128: thx - old switcher is nicer
<seb128> seems like you are determined to make unity behave like your old desktop rather than trying to figure if there is anything nice to get out of unity ;-)
<hrw> seb128: unity switcher makes my life harder when 4 gvim windows are open
<hrw> I need alt+tab then arrows
<seb128> yeah, it has some issues
<seb128> well good that you can tweak and use the old switcher ;-)
<hrw> old one is not perfect but is better then new one for me
<seb128> well, unity switcher, if you stop on an entry which has several instance it will spawn those
<seb128> you can also use alt-key_over_tab to cycle between the instances of the same application
<hrw> nice
<hrw> alt+tilde for most
<seb128> there is a bug about the spawn delay not being short enough which leads some people to not nice it does that
<seb128> well, 'key_over_tab", really, it's not the same key there on all the layouts ;-)
<seb128> it might be tilde for you
<hrw> which component is responsible for 'incomplete language support' window? as I want to fix translation
<seb128> language-selector
<hrw> seb128: during uds I used keyboard which had esc over alt...
<hrw> ok, added suggestion to translations
<rodrigo_> is mpt off this week?
<zyga> hrw, you are doing one thing wrong
<hrw> zyga: only one?
<zyga> hrw, unity is not your previous setup and as long as you don't accept that you will find it annoying
<zyga> hrw, I work differently since natty
<zyga> hrw, not everything is perfect
<zyga> hrw, but
<zyga> hrw, after rethinking my workflow I'm much happier than I was before
<hrw> zyga: will see after few days
<hrw> mostly I miss colour schemes for UI and WM-decorations
<seb128> well, that's what I was saying before, users trying to make unity the same as their old desktop rather than trying to understand how unity work and see if that's better
<zyga> seb128, have you seen a bug where the orange outline that usually shows up when you move the window to the side or to the top edge stays around and just sits there until I resize some (any) windows for a while?
<seb128> but I guess resistance to change is "normal" ;-)
<seb128> zyga, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's reported, it's a bug in compiz grid
<zyga> seb128, ok, thanks
<hrw> seb128: I found launcher very limited in unity - no way to run several gvim windows from one icon for example
<seb128> hrw, you can middle click on the icon
<seb128> to run a new instance
<hrw> I would never guess that ;)
<seb128> didrocks, do you know if there a reference guide to unity somewhere describing that sort of things?
<hrw> other question: in 'mail/im' indicator there is 'configure mail' entry which does not do anything. what is a use for it?
<zyga> seb128, wow, I did not knew that either :)
<hrw> zyga: and you use unity for ~year ;)
 * zyga checks if there is a rmb option :)
<didrocks> seb128: not that I know of, there is askubuntu.com which contains a lot of those tricks
<didrocks> but nothing formally written
<zyga> hrw, I rarely use it for that though, usually CTRL+SHIFT+T -> spawn terminal -> work from there
<didrocks> you can as well shift + click
<seb128> didrocks, ok, so low discoverability, you know to think about questions to find details ;-)
<didrocks> or super shift num
<zyga> hrw, unity is when I don't focus on having 10s of identical windows
<didrocks> well, the low discoverability is by design for that feature
<seb128> didrocks, right, well still having a summary of features would be nice for some users I guess
<zyga> didrocks, I miss right-click context menu with that option spelled out next to an accelerator shortcut so that I can learn
<seb128> hrw, the "configure" is supposed to run the email client corresponding to the entry, likely thunderbird on Oneiric
<hrw> seb128: I have thunderbird installed, configured and running - selecting option does not do anything. where I can check/report bug?
<seb128> hrw, the component is indicator-messages
<hrw> thx
<seb128> yw
<seb128> hrw, do you have a second email entry in that menu or one for thunderbird?
<zyga> hrw, make a screenshot and attach that to your bug report
<hrw> seb128: moment
<hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/panel.jpg
<seb128> do you have the thunderbird unity thing activated?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ do you know if that's required to make the indicator see tb?
<hrw> nope
<hrw> seb128: this addon is disabled
<seb128> try activating it
<seb128> it should be activated by default in oneiric
<chrisccoulson> yeah, if it's not active, then it won't work :)
<hrw> activated, got option
<hrw> is it normal that firefox from desktop2 sometimes appear partially on left side of desktop1?
<chrisccoulson> yay - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/nov/09/adobe-flash-mobile-dead \o/
<chrisccoulson> now, if only they would do the same with desktop flash....
<hrw> ok, time to relogin to get rid of appmenu indicator
<hrw> yay! and world got easier
<hrw> is bug 833615 duplicate of bug 706931?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 833615 in empathy ""connection is untrusted: Remember this choice for future connections" is not clear" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833615
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 706931 in empathy "repeated asking to verify a certificate. enough already, I already approved it!!" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/706931
<rodrigo_> chrisccoulson, cool!
<zyga> hrw, what is wrong with your theme?
<zyga> hrw, the symbolic icons in your indicator area are impossible to see
<pitti> seb128: do you happen to know an easy way of provoking a crash of something while your session gets shut down?
 * pitti wants to test a solution for bug 460932
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 460932 in apport "Do not catch crashes which happen at logout" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460932
<hrw> zyga: thats radiance theme
<zyga> hrw, hmm, it looks readable on my screen, are you sure you have not tweaked anything extra?
<zyga> hrw, I can show you how it looks like here
<pitti> seb128: it seems that calling org.gnome.SessionManager.IsSessionRunning() pretty much DTRT
<hrw> zyga: I changed theme from radiance to other now and now they are more visible
<zyga> radiance _is_ readable
<pitti> seb128: of course that only works for GNOME, but for now that'll help; other desktops can add something similar to apport if they want
<hrw> now... where I can change desktop layout from 2x2 to 1x6...
<seif> rodrigo_, guy lunardi says hi
<seif> :P
<zyga> hrw, http://ubuntuone.com/6a97ekIBjATMuIYY79rM0c
<hrw> zyga: I have them now set too
<hrw> btw - thunderbird icon in launcher is expected to show proper amount of unread emails or just some random '1' number?
<rodrigo_> seif, hey, tell him 'hi' also :D
<zyga> hrw, it should show the right amount
<zyga> hrw, I can show you how my messaging  indicator looks like
<zyga> hrw, did you tweak anything there?
<hrw> zyga: nope, did not
<zyga> hrw, and obviously thunderbird needs to run for the icon to be accurate
<zyga> hrw, does restarting TB fixes the problem?
<seb128> pitti, re (was at lunch), no easy way that I know about no
<hrw> zyga: it is running, icons shows 'no new mail', TB says '6 mails'
<zyga> hrw, if no then I'd report it and follow up with the person that did the customization for ubuntu
<hrw> I will
<zyga> seb128, that brings me to semi-offtopic: who wrote the messaging indicator? I have a crazy idea I want to try
<seb128> zyga, ted from dx
<zyga> seb128, ted gould?
<seb128> yes
 * zyga is sorry if he mixed up the surname
<zyga> ok
<hrw> zyga: bug 886907 and bug 848774 :D
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886907 in thunderbird "Messaging Menu and Unity launcher don't display unread messages count from Thunderbird" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886907
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 848774 in thunderbird "Icon does not show right amount of new email" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848774
<zyga> hrw, sounds like dupe
<hrw> zyga: anyway thing to ignore as it has to display 'new' not 'unread'
<zyga> hrw, do some de-dupe for the people that are going to chew through this
<hrw> will
<seb128> the counter thing tries to be smart
<seb128> i.e it only display counts for boxes you didn't open since they got the new emails and it ignores things that you are not directly receiving
<seb128> i.e mailing lists
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<hrw> where I can change desktop layout from 2x2 to 1x6?
<seb128> ccsm
<zyga> hrw, seb128, in all honesty people expect some degree of personalization from unity so I think things like that will end up (should?) in the control center
<zyga> it's just about picking the things we allow for +1
<zyga> and adapting to feedback
<seb128> what? number of workspaces?
<zyga> seb128, that and a few other things
<seb128> that like fits in ubuntu-tweaks yes
<zyga> seb128, I'd just do 3 options initially
<seb128> not sure about g-c-c
<zyga> seb128, I disagree, it should be configurable by default
<seb128> you assume that most users use workspaces there
<seb128> which I'm not sure it's true
<zyga> seb128, launcher hiding, workspaces and global menu
<seb128> there were some talks about disabling workspaces by default
<seb128> launcher hiding will get a g-c-c option this cycle
<seb128> the menus are being discussed
<hrw> and playing with ccsm == compiz hang == kill compiz from text console
<seb128> they are a known issue
<seb128> not sure about workspaces
<hrw> zyga: and launcher size...
<seb128> that will get a g-c-c option as well iirc
<zyga> seb128, that is possible, the way mac (Leopard or Snow, cannot remember) disabled this by default, placed in the dock by default (so everyone clicked on it and could enable it easily) and allowed you to say how many you want
<hrw> I had to kill compiz. now I have to relogin ;(
<seb128> you can probably run "unity" from a vt
<zyga> seb128, if that gets into default configuration options then virtually all annoyances I hear and read about all the time will be adressed
<seb128> it will restart it on your active X
<seb128> zyga, it will make quite some users happy, still some will complain about i.e the launcher position not being configurable though
<zyga> seb128, is anyone working on that this cycle? I'm just curious but it sounds (to me) that they are rather simple and perhaps I could help
<zyga> seb128, the launcher position is a different topic, AFAIR it is not likely to change for different reasons
<zyga> seb128, I remember sabdfl commenting on that topic
<seb128> zyga, options for the launcher autohide and some others are on the roadmap, check with dx (#ayatana), or maybe didrocks can help you giving details, I'm sure they would appreciate help if you want to work on those
<zyga> seb128, plus I'm not sure how much work is needed to make the launcher movable, the items we discussed above are trivially togglable switches in various configuration systms
<seb128> zyga, right
<zyga> seb128, thanks, I'll look into that
<seb128> well I was just pointing that it will not stop all complain, but that would be a good start for sure ;-)
<hrw> ~hail screen - need to relogin again
<hrw> ~curse compiz and ccsm
<seb128> join the club
<seb128> chrisccoulson wants to destroy ccsm, I start agreeing with him that's needed ;-)
<hrw> so now I need to remove some config files, restart x11 session, run ccsm, curse, reconfigure
<seb128> what happened?
<hrw> ccsm -> about == compiz freeze
<hrw> after relogin no unity
<seb128> try to see if you have a .config  > .compiz-1 > compizconfig
<seb128> config there
<seb128> try deleting it, you maybe it the bug where the profile is changed for you
<hrw> no change
<seb128> did you try restarting compiz?
<hrw> whole x11 session
<seb128> is unity enabled in ccsm?
<hrw> was
<seb128> you can probably re-enable it if it's not
<hrw> anyway need to run other session then unity
<chrisccoulson> destroying ccsm +1000 :-)
<hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/Zrzut%20ekranu%202011-11-09%2014%3a03%3a41.png - who knows what this grey area is?
<zyga> hrw, stuck dead window?
<hrw> zyga: right after login?
<zyga> hrw, ps aux?
<zyga> hrw, perhaps something started and died?
<hrw> xkill better
<hrw> nope - xkill did not helped
<zyga> hrw, no idea, check for X resources with X hacker
<hrw> it was psi+
<hrw> appeared exactly there when opened from systray icon
<hrw> unity/2d does not restore background after switch from VT ;(
<hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/Zrzut%20ekranu%202011-11-09%2014%3a13%3a03.png
<zyga> hrw, sounds like another bug to report for you ;-)
<hrw> thats what I am doing now
<hrw> bug 888050
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888050 in unity-2d "Desktop background not restored after switch from text console" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888050
<hrw> apport updated
<bigon> pitti: hi are you planning to update pygobject to the latest version in debian, to fix the breakage due to gi?
<pitti> bigon: how do you mean? 3.0.2 is the latest, and we have that
<pitti> it's not meant to be broken, it's working quite fine here; what's wrong with it?
<bigon> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=640467
<ubot2> Debian bug 640467 in python-gobject "Insufficient requirement on gobject-introspection" [Grave,Open]
<bigon> somebody on #debian-gnome just talked about that
<pitti> hm, it already b-deps on libgirepository1.0-dev (>= 1.31.0), that shoudl be enough
<pitti> which comes out as a binary dep of libgirepository-1.0-1 (>= 1.29.0)
<pitti> oh, perhaps the libglib version dep isn't high enough
<pitti> bigon: so it's fixed now, I'll followup
<hrw> lovely. lightdm hang ;(
<pitti> bigon: done
<hrw> ok, looks like need to start from scratch ;(
<hrw> but thats tomorrow - today I have a work to do
<bigon> pitti: thx
<AlanBell> hi all, where is the best place to discuss compiz interactions with NUX? specifically relating to bug 762699
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 762699 in unity "Unity launcher and panel are not zoomable with Enhanced Zoom Desktop" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/762699
<kenvandine> AlanBell, #ayatana
<AlanBell> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> AlanBell, np
<dupondje> didrocks: thanks foor looking @ the nautilus bug :)
<didrocks> dupondje: no worry, just annoying noise on the bug report :)
<dupondje> true
<dupondje> happy it will be fixed, cause its like the most annoying bug in Oneiric atm :D
<seb128> users are annoying
<seb128> well the ones ranting on bugs at least
<Xanath> Hello, i tried referring to the general #ubuntu channel but i did not get an answer so i'll try here...
<Xanath> when starting applications from the launcher(using the shortcut super+number) they open in workspace/desktop 1 i want to change that so they open in workspace/desktop  5...
<pitti> seb128: I have a relatively cautious implementation for bug 460932 now
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 460932 in apport "Do not catch crashes which happen at logout" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460932
<pitti> seb128: it might not suppress all the bad ones, but let's see how far this get us
<pitti> seb128: the next bug we get for a shutdown crasher will then make a good case study :)
<seb128> pitti, nice!
<seb128> rodrigo_, there?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you plan to sru g-s-d and g-c-c 3.2.2?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, wasn't planning to do it, but yes, can do it
<mterry> Just FYI y'all, I'm doing my +1 maintenance rotation this month, so I won't be very available for normal desktop stuff
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure we need those but the "fix for gtk 3.2.1" make me thing we do, we might update gtk later on
<seb128> mterry, hey, how are you? got over the ubuflu?
<rodrigo_> ok
<mterry> seb128, no.  :(
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> I got it as well
<mterry> Should be chugging orange juice all UDS next time
<seb128> yeah
<rodrigo_> it was too cold in some rooms indeed
<seb128> mterry, so the rotation, what will that team fix exactly?
<seb128> just curious
<mterry> seb128, everything.  zarro boogs
<mterry> seb128, things like ftbfs, nbs, transitions,
<seb128> good, so you will still fix desktop bugs? ;-)
<mterry> seb128, installability issues, making sure the daily cd builds
<seb128> ok, I still fail to see that being enough to keep dynamic people like you guys busy full time :p
<mterry> seb128, well, historically we've had a hard time keeping up on it, right?
<seb128> but let's see how it goes in practice, feel free to fix desktop bugs once you nailed all the CD issues ;-)
<mterry> seb128, :)
<seb128> mterry, yeah, because we are usually sloppy, I would think that like 2-3 hours a day for a few people would be enough
<seb128> we usually backlog and pay the price later
<mterry> seb128, we'll see; it's an experiment
<seb128> mterry, but let's see how it goes, if I'm right you will get some time for desktop bug fixing, if I'm not you will not, no issue ;-)
<seb128> mterry, oh sure, not denying it's useful and wanted, I just somewhat think people will still have a bit of time for their normal team bugs though ;-)
<mterry> seb128, this certainly involves a lot of local building, so I'll have some free time while waiting perhaps  :)
<seb128> or maybe I just hope it's the case :p
<kenvandine> sigh... updating tp-mission-control-5 seems to break gabble... good thing i am updating the whole stack :)
<seb128> mterry, speaking I was pondering syncing libepc from experimental which has a soname change but I didn't want to deal with the rdepends, does it mean I can just sync it and requires your services to get it fixed then? ;-)
 * seb128 hides
<mterry> seb128, :(
<Laney> there is tool development too
<seb128> mterry, ok ok, I will not do it (or at least not today)
<seb128> mterry, joke aside enjoy the rotation ;-)
<mterry> Laney, true.  a side goal is to improve the tools that let us fix this stuf
<seb128> how many people do you get in the team at the same time? 2-3?K
<Laney> an index page for the transition tracker would be nice ;-)
<mterry> seb128, 3
<bryceh> seb128, yep good point
<seb128> hey bryceh
<seb128> bryceh, do you only check for comments from the bug submitter or is the script buggy in some way and didn't notice there was activity on the bug?
<seb128> i.e design decision or bug? ;-)
<bryceh> bug
<seb128> ok
<bryceh> I'd even commented "don't comment on bugs with recent comments", just forgot to implement the check
<seb128> ;-)
<bryceh> seb128, I only just wrote it yesterday ;-)
<bryceh> it is only going to get one time per release.  this time it touched only 112 bugs so its one of my "smaller" scripts.  but the less annoying it is the better
<bryceh> seb128, I should probably also include logic to not touch bugs with more than 25 comments or so... those tend to be "heated"
<seb128> yeah, don't feed the trolls :p
 * didrocks hugs his testsuite
<didrocks> was wondering why it suddenly failed
<didrocks> before seeing that it was a commented instruction for debugging which was guilty
<pitti> good night everyone!
<hggdh> pkcs11-kit (on precise) looks for gnome-keyring-pkcs11.so under /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkcs11/, but gnome-keyring installed it under /usr/lib/pkcs11. Is this a bug on g-k, or pkcs11-kit (so that I can open it on the correct package)?
<seb128> it's report in launchpad
<seb128> seems a multiarch issue, try pinging slangasek if you are lucky he might look at it
<hggdh> seb128: thank you. I will try my luck, but lately it has been misbehaving ;-)
<slangasek> open bug
<slangasek> I was waiting for the Debian maintainer's decision
<slangasek> Debian bug #645959
<ubot2> Debian bug 645959 in src:p11-kit "p11-kit looks in /usr/lib/$arch/pkcs11 for modules, nothing installs there?" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/645959
<slangasek> since the maintainer hasn't replied to my last comment, I guess the next step is for someone to patch p11-kit to look in /usr/lib/pkcs11 for backwards-compatibility
<kenvandine> seb128, i was just looking at that in gnome-keyring
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, I just noticed your upload, I was wondering if that's in reaction of the discussion there
<walters> hey, could we get a unity developer to come to #gnome-os on gimpnet?  We're looking at merging desrt's GMenuModel stuff in gtk+ and it'd be helpful to have someone who can actually look at how things would work for unity's global menu
<kenvandine> well, it fixes it for now, but ideally gnome-keyring should install in multiarch
<kenvandine> i think
<seb128> walters, do you have desrt there? I think he knows the details
<walters> scratch that #gtk+ is more topical
<walters> seb128, he's on vacation
<seb128> ok, quite some unity people are on vacation as well after UDS
<seb128> ted was around earlier, could be lunch time for him, if you can wait a bit he will probably be back
<walters> ok, thanks
<seb128> kenvandine, could you turn bug #848968 to verification done, I think you said you had the issue and the update fixed it for you?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 848968 in evolution "Google Calendar reminders display unnecessarily" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848968
<seb128> pedro_, could you maybe help to get some green on the evo sru?
<kenvandine> seb128, sure
<seb128> it's in the queue for 21 days
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<pedro_> still there?
<pedro_> seb128, ok i'll check it
<seb128> pedro_, thanks
<pedro_> no problem
<seb128> pedro_, the indicators as well
<pedro_> yeah will look at all the desktop related sru's
<didrocks> ok, time for some dance, see you tomorrow (on swap, but will connect)
<pedro_> didrocks, have fun :-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i know what's causing your launcher count problem with thunderbird!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> tedg, hey, walters was looking for you
<seb128> tedg, they want somebody from unity on #gtk+, they are looking at merging gmenumodel
<seb128> want -> could use
<seb128> desrt is not around this week
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what is it?
<tedg> Ah, desrt would be a better candidate...
<seb128> tedg, right, but he's not around...
<chrisccoulson> we're looking at the wrong property changing on e-mails when clearing the count
<walters> tedg, it's not critical to do right this instant
<walters> tedg, but mclasen is pretty far along - e.g. we have tests
<tedg> walters, Ah, I mean, I can help out.  But, I'd defer to desrt any hard questions :-)
<jbicha> seb128: are you interested in sponsoring my webkit 1.6 merge?
<seb128> jbicha, did you follow the debian source rename?
<jbicha> seb128: they renamed it back
<seb128> oh, I didn't notice that
<seb128> yeah, I'm happy to review
<seb128> do we still have a diff?
<seb128> we should be pretty close from a sync from what I saw last time I reviewed it
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/webkit/ubuntu
<jbicha> pretty small diff, maybe I should bug kov harder about getting rid of it
<seb128> jbicha, I think the conflict was not required
<seb128> i.e in practice they have no common file
<seb128> that would need checking
<seb128> not sure the regexp stuff is required
<seb128> it workaround some other symbols issues and might be cleaner but not worth a diff I think
<jbicha> or we could just sync and make changes afterwards if needed?
<seb128> jbicha, could you check if the conflicts is required? if not we can just sync
<seb128> jbicha, yeah, can do
<seb128> jbicha, the -common has /usr/share/webkitgtk-3.0
<seb128> which I guess they did for the gtk2, gtk3 version to be installable at the same time
<seb128> so no conflict there, we can sync
<jbicha> yes, it looks like the conflict isn't needed, thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? ;-) let me know if I can help testing
<micahg> jbicha: the conflicts for webkit are needed for Lucid -> precise upgrades ATM
<micahg> at least I would think they'd be needed to remove the old library
<micahg> squeeze -> wheeze will have the same issue though, I guess it's fine, assuming that apps will behave properly with both installed
<micahg> *wheezy
<jbicha> micahg: I don't know as I've not tested lucid>precise upgrades yet, but there isn't a file conflict at least
<micahg> well, Debian will have the same issue, so if you're chatting with them anyways, maybe just ask
 * micahg is planning to upgrade lucid to 1.6.x, but that's still a couple months off
<jbicha> as a backport?
<micahg> nope, security update
<jbicha> micahg: I have a -ubuntu1 in the desktop branch if you'd rather keep the conflicts
<micahg> jbicha: well, that would be the only use case for it, idk if it's needed, we can always add it back later, it's just something to keep in mind
<AlanBell> RAOF: on the subject of colour profiles, have we investigated licensing pantone palettes and putting them in the software centre as a pay for item?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-10
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert
<robert_ancell> pitti, hello
<pitti> robert_ancell: do you plan a precise lightdm upload soon, so that the SRU can go into -updates?
<robert_ancell> pitti, oh, is it blocked on that?  Isn't it alrady in updates?
<robert_ancell> oh, it's in proposed
<pitti> no; one bug verification to go, and missing the fixes in precise
<robert_ancell> pitti, I'm not running precise just yet, can you smoke test it for me?
<pitti> robert_ancell: I can; which branch should I build from?
<robert_ancell> pitti, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/lightdm/ubuntu
<pitti> robert_ancell: ok, I'll build from that
<pitti> robert_ancell: hm, that's still the -proposed branch
<robert_ancell> (i.e. that's the version that's in proposed)
<pitti> sure, I'll build/install/test
<pitti> robert_ancell: precise lightdm build works fine
<robert_ancell> pitti, awesome.  Do you want to change the release name in bzr and upload or would you like me to do it?
<pitti> robert_ancell: can do
<pitti> robert_ancell: well, not change, just add a new entry and upload with -v
<robert_ancell> yeah, I thought you'd get it right.  I'd probably mess it up :_
<robert_ancell> :)
<pitti> FTR:
<pitti> dch -r "Upload to precise."
<pitti> bzr bd -S -- -v1.0.1-0ubuntu6 -sd
<pitti> robert_ancell: done
<robert_ancell> so memorable
<robert_ancell> thanks
<pitti> well, the -sd is optional, but it doesn't need the tar again
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<pitti> fighting with python-apt
<didrocks> (I'm technically on swap today, just waiting to finish some stuff like writing my WI and some SRU)
<didrocks> fighting? good luck! :)
<didrocks> pitti: thanks for the SRU, I wasn't sure it was acked that you wanted us to copy first in +1, doing now
<pitti> didrocks: not copy,  upload
<pitti> we actually want a build against precise's toolchain and libraries
<didrocks> pitti: sure, doing
<pitti> merci!
<didrocks> de rien :)
<didrocks> pitti: for gnome-desktop3, should I upload with the same revision?
<pitti> didrocks: yes, please; no idea what went wrong there
<didrocks> packages are disappearing zomg! :)
<didrocks> pitti: uploaded the old .changes (I still had it), uploading to precise as well now
<didrocks> argh, compizconfig and compiz got rejected
<didrocks> as they have the same revision
<didrocks> (for precise)
<didrocks> should I just bump to version.1 ?
<pitti> or version+1
<pitti> better than using .1 for precise
<pitti> it's usually used for SRUs and security updates in stables
<didrocks> so, for instance, I uploaded gnome-desktop3 (3.2.1-0ubuntu1) for oneiric-proposed
<didrocks> I should upload 3.2.1-0ubuntu2 for precise?
<pitti> argh, apt and python-apt drive me crazy today :(
<didrocks> pitti: that doesn't look weird to miss a rev? ^
<pitti> didrocks: please upload with -v to include the ubuntu1 changelog, too
<didrocks> humâ¦ no, I'm not clear I guess
<didrocks> ubuntu1 is the version uploaded in -proposed
<pitti> right
<didrocks> now, I'm uploading the *same* version in precise
<didrocks> or I just add an ubuntu2 "rebuild for precise"
<didrocks> with -vâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: I did https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2011-November/001677.html
<pitti> normally people are supposed to do it the other way around
<pitti> upload to precise, then lower the version number and upload to oneiric-proposed
<pitti> which avoids this
<pitti> didrocks: right, that's what I mean
<didrocks> pitti: ok, doing that then, thanks :)
<pitti> mvo: does "test/test-indexes.sh" still work for you in current apt trunk? it's broken for me
<pitti> today is weird; I find a python-apt bug, distill it into a test case, which finds another bug; I investigate that, this finds yet another bug
<pitti> apt is crumbling underneath me :/
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> checking out trunk, doing "autoreconf", then
<pitti> $ ./configure
<pitti> configure: error: cannot run /bin/bash buildlib/config.sub
<pitti> This is not a good day to debug apt :(
<mvo> pitti: hm, let me check - the version in debian-experimental got a lot of cleanup in the tests, let me see if that already got merged over
<pitti> ah, it seems that test-indexes.sh was removed :(
<pitti> too bad, it reproduces one of the errors I found
<mvo> pitti: otherwise, tests/integration/run-tests
<pitti> mvo: ah, I checked out http+urllib://anonscm.debian.org/bzr/apt/debian-sid/
<mvo> pitti: hm, that one should be folded into the integration dir already IIRC
<pitti> any idea how I get around
<pitti> error: tag OUTPUT_DIRECTORY: Output directory `../build/doc/doxygen' does not exist and cannot be created
<mvo> pitti: right, the debian version is a bit behind currently, the most recent is debian-experimental, that will land in unstable soon(ish)
<pitti> that fails the build, and run-tests complains about "build tree first"
<mvo> pitti: meh, try mkdir -p build/doc/doxygen - but it should have done that itself
<pitti> that helped, but tests still fail; but anyway, I'll drop this for now, it's nto the actual bug I'm trying to solve
<didrocks> pitti: can you reject nautilus 1:3.2.1-0ubuntu3 please? It happens bug #886428 (which isn't worse than the issue it fixes), I'm uploading a fix with other fixes soon
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886428 in nautilus "Bug duplicates files icon in GNOME3 and Unity" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886428
<pitti> didrocks: reject from where? it's not in the oneiric queue
<didrocks> pitti: it's not in oneiric-proposed? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus seems to say so and rmadison as well
<pitti> didrocks: oh, that's not "reject", that's "remove"
<pitti> and I wouldn't like to do that except for very exceptional circumstances
<pitti> just upload a new one
<pitti> with including the previous changelog
<didrocks> sure
<didrocks> just telling you as it's almost there for 7 days with a bug verification-done
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, I want to ask you whether you can do tests with your Samsung ML-1610.
<pitti> tkamppeter: my wife's machine is on natty; does it need oneiric?
<Daviey> @pilot in
<Daviey> gah
<pitti> Daviey: -ECHAN?
<pitti> Daviey: but good morning!
<Daviey> pitti: good morning!  tab complete fail, please pass the coffee :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about several USB printing bugs: bug 793244, bug 887094, bug, 872483, bug 564917, bug 883169, bug 872711
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 793244 in cups "After suspend/hibernate usb printer backend repeatedly crashes" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/793244
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 887094 in cups "usb printer backend crashes" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887094
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 564917 in cups "Ubuntu 10.04 does not recognize local printer connected via USB/parallel adapter cable" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564917
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 883169 in system-config-printer "Brother MFC-8840D usb printer not detected" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883169
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872711 in linux "Kernel does not report some USB printers correctly, making them not being detected by CUPS" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872711
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is an Oneiric problem, so move the printer temporarily to your box or update your wive's box (do not let her work on totally obsolete systems).
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'm running precise
<pitti> tkamppeter: but yeah, I need to upgrade her box, doing that over the day
<pitti> but natty isn't obsolete :)
<pitti> in fact, I (and she) even prefer natty's unity over oneiric's
<tkamppeter> pitti, precise is no problem, it is still very close to Oneiric.
<tkamppeter> pitti, connect the printer and checjk whether it is detected. Check whether the kernel has the fix of bug 872711 (is it new enough?), update to the proposed kernel if needed, check if you can print several jobs. Do they all come out? Does only the first come out? Is the rest garbage or does it not come out at all? Does the usb CUPS backend crash? Hibernate and/or suspend, then print more jobs, does the usb backend crash? Then update C
<tkamppeter> UPS to the package of my PPA (you have to install the package manually if you are on precise), are any problems solved by that? Does it introduce new problems?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872711 in linux "Kernel does not report some USB printers correctly, making them not being detected by CUPS" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872711
<Daviey> pitti: Would someone on your team be happy to review sync bug 888265, i'd rather not touch webkit myself.  Thanks.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888265 in webkit "Sync webkit 1.6.1-5 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888265
<Daviey> (removes a ubuntu delta)
<pitti> Daviey: I'll have a look, thanks
<pitti> oh, it's from jbicha, it's certainly fine :) I'll double-check, though
<Daviey> thanks
<pitti> tkamppeter: upgrade is running
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: pretty well, thanks! just finished a four-hour apt/python-apt debug marathon
 * pitti hugs mvo for the deciding hints
<seb128> waouh
<seb128> you defeated it? ;-)
<pitti> yes, apport trunk is all happy
<pitti> under some conditions the apt sandboxes silently forgot to fetch and unpack some packages
<seb128> there I just finished a 10 hours sleep against ubuflu marathon :p
<seb128> great
<pitti> seb128: feeling any better? did it get worse after your flight?
 * mvo hugs pitti back
<seb128> I'm ok, it didn't really get worse no but got me tired
<seb128> well ubuflu added with travelling and maybe jetlag
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks, ca va ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, en train de finir quelques trucs :) et toi?
 * mvo hugs pitti back
<seb128> didrocks, ca va, tjs un peu d'ubuflu
<seb128> hey mvo, how are you? had a nice flight back?
<mvo> seb128: for some value of nice ;) but I managed to sleep a bit, so the time passed relatively quickly
<mvo> seb128: and you? recovered from the flu?
<seb128> mvo, the trip went well, still having some ubuflu but it's not to bad
<seb128> mvo, well "nice" in the sense of didn't get your passport lost, or missed your connection or got your stuff lost
<seb128> (random examples inspired from real life cases from this return travel ;-)
<mvo> seb128: yes, nice in that sense, really uneventful and quick
<didrocks> pitti: new nautilus uploaded in -proposed (already in precise)
<pitti> didrocks: cheers
<pitti> FAILED: gnome-desktop3 (The source gnome-desktop3 - 3.2.1-0ubuntu1 is already accepted in ubuntu/oneiric and you cannot upload the same version within the same distribution. You have to modify the source version and re-upload.)
<pitti> WTF
<pitti> didrocks: oh, it's in -updates already
<didrocks> pitti: ah, so it was not so lost! :)
<seb128> wth?
<pitti> seb128 needs more coffee :)
<seb128> pitti, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-desktop3 doesn't list it
<pitti> and LP too, it didn't auto-close the bug
<seb128> 3.2.0-0ubuntu4.1 	updates (main) 	3 weeks ago
<seb128> that doesn't make sense
<pitti> oh, wait
<pitti> it was deleted from -proposed, but not actually copied to -updates
<pitti> didrocks: can you please reupload as -0ubuntu1.1?
<pitti> didrocks: most likely explanation is that sru-release freaked out due to the broken powerpc build
<didrocks> pitti: sure
<pitti> which we can avoid by having a separate precise upload
<pitti> (argh)
<didrocks> pitti: should be good now
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> die, powerpc, die
<pitti> or start working, whichever is easier :)
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> pitti: FYI, just finished all the paperwork for my blueprints, set them all the "pending approval"
<pitti> didrocks: yay you
<didrocks> swap day is useful for SRU/paperwork :)
<seb128> pitti, btw robert_ancell set the lock screen one directly to approved, was that wanted or an error?
<pitti> seb128: an error
<pitti> but I reviewed them, and fixed some syntax issues, should be okay now
<seb128> pitti, ok
<chrisccoulson> maaaan, i feel like crap today
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone :)
<chrisccoulson> nice - http://robert.ocallahan.org/2011/11/end-of-plugins.html !
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ubuflu?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah. i'm wondering if i'm starting to come down with a chest infection. my breathing is terrible today
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ugh, get well soon then!
<pitti> try a hot bath?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might try that in a bit
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> ubuflu :-(
<chrisccoulson> i really need to fix bug 888307 first though :(
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888307 in firefox "Bundled Firefox extensions disabled on upgrade to 8.0" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888307
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> I'm ok, still fighting the cold I got at the end of UDS but it's not too bad
<seb128> agateau, when you verify a sru fix feel free to change the tag to verification-done
<seb128> agateau, i.e kde-workspace's fix is still verification-needed
<agateau> seb128: ok
<agateau> seb128: done
<rickspencer3> pitti, hey, someone was asking me about how to get a bug fixed when a goi doesn't work because something was marked to not-introspectable
<rickspencer3> something in Gtk 3
<seb128> agateau, thanks
<rickspencer3> specifically bug #886359
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 886359 in pygobject "Missing feature blocks Python apps from being ported to GTK3. " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886359
<rickspencer3> any thoughts on how to get that addressed?
<didrocks> ok, time to really enjoy my swap day. Administrative stuff now + train to Paris, see you on Monday!
<seb128> didrocks, have fun
<didrocks> merci, toi aussi seb128 :)
<seb128> didrocks, see hi to the french loco ;-)
<seb128> see -> say
<didrocks> I'll for sure!
<seb128> rather
<seb128> thanks, see you next week ;-)
<nessita> hello everyone!
<rodrigo_> hi nessita
<seb128> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> does anyone know if there's a guide about how to package a dependency that has not tarballs released?
<seb128> nessita, define "a dependency", is that just "something which has no tarball"? or is "dependency" something special?
<nessita> I just need to package for Ubuntu the qt4reactor, which is basically a single python script, but the upstream does not release tarball (at least for the moment)
<seb128> nessita, just do a tarball yourself
<nessita> seb128: this is the dependency: https://github.com/ghtdak/qtreactor
<nessita> seb128: ok, where do I upload it?
<nessita> launchpad?
<seb128> nessita, do you use "dependency" as "source" there?
<rodrigo_> or get a git snapshot?
<seb128> not sure to understand what it's a dependency of?
<seb128> nessita, no need to upload it anywhere, well to ubuntu
<nessita> seb128: is a dependency of Ubuntu One for all the QT UIs
<seb128> nessita, just make dist from git
<nessita> seb128: forgive my ignorance... make dist even if there is not makefile in the upstream source?
<seb128> nessita, no, whatever gives you a tarball, it's usually make dist
<seb128> nessita, just use tar c... if you prefer ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<nessita> seb128: ok, I undestand that. But I'm not sure about the where to upload the tarball, shall I upload it to the launchpad project that (already) mirror this git project?
<pedro_> seb128, hi!
<seb128> nessita, nowhere?
<seb128> nessita, you don't need to have an "upstream public tarball"
<seb128> nessita, just build a package and dput it to ubuntu
<nessita> seb128: great, understood. On it!
<seb128> write in the changelog that you made a tarball from upstream git
<seb128> pedro_, how are you?
<seb128> pedro_, do you know what team gives nomination for ubuntu series rights?
<nessita> seb128: I will, and I will certainly ask you for feedback
<seb128> nessita, ok ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, good you? how's that cold going?
<pedro_> seb128, IIRC that's ubuntu-release now
<pedro_> it used to be ubuntu-drivers
<seb128> pedro_, okish, not getting worth but not getting much better either, but well it's not to bad so I will not complain
<seb128> pedro_, i.e you can't nominate bugs for series?
<seb128> pedro_, no, it's not ubuntu-release, I'm not in there but I can nominate bugs
<seb128> let me ask on devel
 * pedro_ checking
<pedro_> its still ubuntu-drivers
<pedro_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/879525/+nominate <-
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879525 in rhythmbox "Rhythmbox CD ripping to FLAC broken in Oneiric" [Low,Incomplete]
<pedro_> seb128,  ^
<pedro_> "The Ubuntu release manager is Ubuntu Drivers (ubuntu-drivers) (ubuntu-drivers) ."
<seb128> pedro_, thanks, that seems broken but that reply to my question ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol @ http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6041/6326638850_eea2b4b82c_o.jpg
<seb128> pedro_, can you nominate bugs?
<pedro_> seb128, last time i've tried , yes , testing right now
<pedro_> seb128, yes I can
<tkamppeter> pitti, ping
<pitti> tkamppeter: pong
<pitti> rickspencer3: back from lunch, looking
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about bug 887094, a user experiences crashes in the USB CUPS backend, /usr/lib/cups/backend/usb, which is started by CUPS and now he does not know how to get a stack trace, especially also that the file in the package is /usr/lib/cups/backend-available/usb, hard-linked to /usr/lib/cups/backend/usb by the maintainer scripts.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 887094 in cups "usb printer backend crashes" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887094
<tkamppeter> pitti, do you know how to capture a stack trace here?
<pitti> rickspencer3: replied to the bug; in general, it's best to file a bug about it, and then prod me or someone in #introspection on GNOME IRC
<pitti> tkamppeter: so apport doesn't pick it up because of the hardlink
<pitti> tkamppeter: perhaps you can ask to enable cups debugging, grab the usb backend parameters from the log, and then have him run the command manually from backend-available/ ? This should trigger apport
<seb128> while I think about it, tomorrow is off in France
<seb128> so don't worry if I'm not around tomorrow ;-)
<pitti> tkamppeter: you recently added debian/patches/usb-backend-reset-printer-before-printing.patch to cups
<pitti> tkamppeter: this adds "#include <linux/usbdevice_fs.h>" and thus causes debian bug 647666
<ubot2> Debian bug 647666 in src:cups "cups: FTBFS(!linux): fatal error: linux/usbdevice_fs.h: No such file or directory" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/647666
<pitti> tkamppeter: do we need this for the usb_reset() function?
<pitti> tkamppeter: does upstream perhaps have a better solution for this by any chance, which isn't linux specific?
<pitti> (Mike won't accept this into trunk, as MacOS is also BSD based)
<mdeslaur> pitti: is there any way to override priorities in work items?
<pitti> mdeslaur: no, you need to set the BP priority
<mdeslaur> pitti: ok, I guess we'll have to split out the blueprints then. Thanks!
<chrisccoulson> i really need to flesh out my blueprints today. damn you firefox for taking up all my time this week!
<tkamppeter> pitti, upstream would take the usb_reset patch probably only with conditionals, with the individual USB resets for each OS.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I am now testing an alternative, more upstream-friendly patch, it also fixes bug 872483, but there seems to be a segfault sometimes occuring in the USB backend and this seems to appear with both patches, perhaps even without any of them, but this would need to be tested.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872483 in cups "laser printer only prints first job correct" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872483
<tkamppeter> pitti, did you complete your update to Oneiric, so that you can do tests with your printer?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I did; will test soon, currently working knee-deep in something else
<mhr3> mvo, my synaptic is crashing with: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::out_of_range'
<mhr3>   what():  vector::_M_range_check
<mhr3> mvo, anything i can do?
<mhr3> mvo, seems to be atk-related
<mvo> mhr3: oneiric or precise? what do I have to do to reproduce?
<mhr3> mvo, run orca :)
<mhr3> mvo, and yea oneiric
<mhr3> mvo, also after you setup orca and fix it, let me know how do i disable it ;D
<seb128> lol
<ricotz> seb128, hello
<ricotz> have you seen something like that yet, this is with a multiarch install of libglib2.0-0 -- http://paste.debian.net/plain/144475
<ricotz> i guess /usr/share/doc/libglib2.0-0/ChangeLog.pre-2-2.gz gets generated by debhelper
<ricotz> slangasek, hello ^
<slangasek> ricotz: are you installing both amd64 and i386 versions of the package, and did you build them from the same version of the source tree?
<slangasek> ricotz: unfortunately if the files are different, dpkg has no way to know which one should win, so it kicks it out and makes you resolve the error
<ricotz> slangasek, yes, there are both installed and built in a ppa from the same source
<ricotz> slangasek, is there a way to handle this gracefully
<slangasek> ricotz: if you unpack both packages manually and uncompress the files, are the contents the same?
<ricotz> since this file is installed/generated automatically
<slangasek> if the contents *are* the same, you're probably hitting a gzip bug: Debian bug #647522
<ubot2> Debian bug 647522 in gzip "gzip -9n is not deterministic" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/647522
<slangasek> and there's no graceful way around it, but the hackish way around it is 'rm /usr/share/doc/libglib2.0-0/ChangeLog.pre-2-2.gz && apt-get install libglib2.0-0'.
<ricotz> slangasek, this is probably it then
<ricotz> slangasek, just to confirm the content is the same only the gz binary is different
<ricotz> slangasek, thanks
<slangasek> ricotz: yep.  So the two possible reasons for this are either use of wrong gzip options (you must use gzip -n9 when compressing), or this bug
<agateau> anyone happens to know which UI or package is responsible for setting the gsettings 'org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled' key on or off?
<agateau> ah no
<agateau> 'org.gnome.desktop.interface toolkit-accessibility' is the key I am after
<seb128> agateau, gnome-control-center, gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> agateau, gnome-settings-daemon seems to activate it if screen-reader-enabled or screen-keyboard-enabled are true
<seb128> agateau, which I think have ui options in the gnome-control-center a11y panel
<agateau> seb128: ahah
<agateau> seb128: indeed screen-reader-enabled have a ui option
 * agateau looks at gnome-settings-daemon
<agateau> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> agateau, yw
<seb128> agateau, you want to look at gnome-settings-daemon/plugins/a11y-settings/gsd-a11y-settings-manager.c
<agateau> seb128: ok
<chrisccoulson> who's owning https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-deprecated-libraries ?
<chrisccoulson> i was going to add my own firefox related WI's to that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, nobody, I sort of deprecated it, dropped milestone etc
<seb128> but feel free to claim it if you want
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, ok. no worries then :)
<chrisccoulson> no, i don't want any more work ;)
<seb128> it just felt after UDS that we wouldn't have time for that and the "remaining libs" we have are gconf and gtk2 which we will not get ride of for the lts
<chrisccoulson> wow, i really don't have that many WI's this cycle
<chrisccoulson> probably a good thing though
<seb128> yeah
<chrisccoulson> the ones on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements are all fairly big anyway
<chrisccoulson> and i would really like to finish https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad as well
<chrisccoulson> which is also quite a lot of work :)
<mhr3> rodrigo_, ping
<rodrigo_> mhr3, pong
<mhr3> rodrigo_, i see you worked on the a11y in unity-panel-service
<rodrigo_> yes
<mhr3> rodrigo_, got a question about it
<mhr3> when are the a11y objects destroyed?
<mhr3> or who destroys them?
<rodrigo_> when the program is about to exit, afaik
<rodrigo_> they are all children of the root object, iirc
<mhr3> hmmm
<rodrigo_> so, at program exit, the root object is destroyed, which destroys all childen
<mhr3> that's interesting
<mhr3> i thought it's somehow tied to the widgets they descibe
<rodrigo_> well, although it might be at-spi the one who destroys them, yes
<rodrigo_> when it doesn't need them
<mhr3> i guess i'll just add a couple of debug prints :)
<rodrigo_> I'm not sure about the details, you might want to ask API, who is the guy I helped on that, and he knows a lot about atk, at-spi, etc
<rodrigo_> mhr3, yeah, or that
<mhr3> rodrigo_, do you know where can i find him?
<rodrigo_> mhr3, he used to be in #ayatana when he was working on this, not sure now, so #gnome-hackers in gimpnet
<rodrigo_> although seems he's not around right no
<rodrigo_> w
<rodrigo_> mhr3, oh, he's in #gnome-hispano on gimpnet right now
<mhr3> rodrigo_, awesome, thx
<rodrigo_> mhr3, ah, and he's apinheiro on #ayatana
<pitti> good night everyone!
<kenvandine> good night pitti
 * kenvandine -> lunch 
<mterry> kenvandine, one thing gwibber should do is hide its window when I close it.  Seems unresponsive now, but if you hid the window while you do the rest of the cleanup in the background, it would appear to be much faster
<achiang> tremolux: how can i give an app some stars in USC?
<achiang> tremolux: oh, i found it. i have to click "write your own review"
<achiang> tremolux: i was fooled, because i thought i could just click on the displayed stars and rate it that way, kinda like how netflix works
<tremolux> achiang: yeah, we currently require that you write a review in order to give it a rating
<achiang> tremolux: that's a fair design decision for now
<achiang> tremolux: it was the first time i've used USC actually, and it was quite nice. i'm on a fresh install and wanted to edit an image, and didn't feel like installing gimp (like i normally would have done)
<tremolux> achiang: we did talk at UDS about easing that restriction somewhat, in order to encourage more ratings as that will add to the accuracy of the upcoming recommendations feature
<achiang> tremolux: so i just looked for a highly rated graphics editor, and found pintura, whose description says, "we aim to be simpler than gimp" :)
<tremolux> achiang: ah! glad you like it  :)  it's a bit currently as we redesigned the UI last cycle, but we are going to make it fast and fix up remaining rough edges, etc.
<tremolux> achiang: ah, cool, I've not heard of pintura, I'll check that out!
<tremolux> bit *slow* currently, I meant to say above
<achiang> apt-get is great when you know what you want, but USC is better if you're looking for an alternative to what you want
 * micahg just uses apt-cache search :)
<achiang> yeah, but i want other guinea pigs to tell me something is good. ;)
<tkamppeter> pitti, still there?
<seb128> tkamppeter, he said good night earlier
<tkamppeter> seb128, OK, thanks.
<kenvandine> mterry, you mean it takes too long to shutdown?
<kenvandine> oh.... in oneiric... i haven't SRU'd the "don't Gtk.main_quit when using Gtk.Application" fix yet
<mterry> kenvandine, yeah.  it stays on the screen forever
<kenvandine> that is fixed in the 3.2 branch, just haven't uploaded the SRU
<mfisch> any ideas on debugging a session crash where I get logged out when doing builds?  Gdk-WARNING: gnome-session: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :0.#012
<mfisch> if it's the OOM killer, I don't see any indication of that in the logs
<chrisccoulson> mfisch, that looks like an X crash
<mfisch> chrisccoulson: I was re-running my build and the memory looks fine.  Do you have any pointers on debugging an X crash?
<chrisccoulson> mfisch, you could have a look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old after it crashes
<chrisccoulson> but other than that, i'm not too sure :)
<mfisch> I was perusing the Xorg.0.log, not the old one, looking now
<mfisch> chrisccoulson: yep, there it is: [ 14287.138] Segmentation fault at address 0x1d9
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-11
<pitti> Good morning
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<micahg> hi chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hi micahg, how are you?
<micahg> chrisccoulson: well, but tired, thanks
<micahg> how are you this morning
<chrisccoulson> pretty bad. i've been getting more and more ill all week, and i can hardly breathe today :(
<chrisccoulson> i#'m meant to be flying to berlin this afternoon, and i'm not sure what to do now
<micahg> chrisccoulson: I'm sorry to hear that
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, about the new CUPS filter Blueprint. There is no intention to switch to CUPS 1.6. What changes in Precise is only the structure of the packaging of CUPS.
<pitti> tkamppeter: but 1.5 still ships all those filters?
<tkamppeter> pitti, as CUPS upstream/Apple made a decision how to handle the filters, which implies not integrating the PDF filters, I have worked out a new way how the PDF filters will be provided upstream.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I want to drop the add-on source package (which we currently ship inside our CUPS package) and provide a real upstream package with BZR and bug tracking and all on OpenPrinting. It is already prepared for CUPS 1.6, but I will add CUPS 1.5 support (=do not install filters which CUPS 1.5 already ships) to its build system.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, ok; so that doesn't change the cups package at all, it's just an "upstream" spec for now?
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I see
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, that'll make things a lot easier indeed
<tkamppeter> pitti, in Ubuntu, to reduce the distro patches (the PDF filters add-on is more or less a distro patch) I will introduce one new package to Ubuntu/Debian which contains the PDF filters. CUPS will pull it in by Depends and so the printing environment stays the same, only coming from two source Debian packages as there are two upstream source packages.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, great
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, I'm fine and you?
<pitti> I'm fine, thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-color-management-next-steps, should RAOF be the assignee or me?
<pitti> tkamppeter: doesn't matter, as all the WIs have explicit assignees
<pitti> tkamppeter: btw, I'm removing the lcm1 work item, as it's already a linked bug (they count as work item, too)
<pitti> tkamppeter: spec accepted and updated, thanks!
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about the cloud print integration, we agreed on adding a switch to the Online accounts, I have reported bug 888981.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888981 in gnome-online-accounts "Google account in Online Accounts section of GNOME Control Center needs support for Google Cloud Print" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888981
<tkamppeter> pitti, should I reporta GNOME upstream bug and wait for the feature simply coming in from upstream?
<pitti> tkamppeter: not necessarily wait for them to implement it, but at least discuss whether they'd accept it
<tkamppeter> pitti, how to do with the security aspect, should I report a bug on cloud print, assign it to the security people, and ask them to do a security review, security test, stress testy, or whatever on cloud print?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I already assigned the MIR to ubuntu-security
<pitti> it's not about stress testing, they should review the architecture
<tkamppeter> pitti, so we make the Blueprint dependent on whether GNOME upstream accepts it?
<pitti> tkamppeter: that's a strong word, but let's please discuss such things with upstream first
<pitti> they might have similar plans, or might want us to implement it in a better/different way, etc.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, hi
<rodrigo_> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, it is about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-google-cloud-print-integration
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, we have discussed an idea of integrating Google Cloud Print, at least sharing out the local printers into the cloud, in Ubuntu.
<rodrigo_> oh, and how would that be done?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, our ideas are written down in the Blueprint, using "cloudprint" as user daemon and adding a switch to the Online Accounts of g-c-c.
<rodrigo_> ok, reading the bp :)
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, now I want to ask you whether there are any efforts at GNOME upstream to integrate Google Cloud Print or whether our suggested way to integrate it has a chance to get accepted by GNOME upstream.
<rodrigo_> I don't know of any effort in gnome land
<rodrigo_> and yes, the suggested way might get accepted
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, perhaps "cloudprint" should only be taken as sample code to know how the Google Cloud Print interface works but the user daemon implementation should be done in gnome-settings-daemon?
<rodrigo_> yes, probably
<rodrigo_> also, we should add a cups queue for this, right? so that it shows up on the print dialog?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, how should we proceed with this Blueprint? Would you move it forward?
<rodrigo_> or is that only supposed to accept print jobs from the outside?
<rodrigo_> that is, what does cloudprint do exactly?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, for sharing out printers we do not need a CUPS queue. The existing queues are forwarded to Google.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, yes, this is intended so that the user can print on the printers at home or in the office from his cell phone or tablet from any place on the world.
<rodrigo_> ok
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, a CUPS queue for Google Cloud Print would only be needed if we want to support the scenario of Ubuntu on a mobile device (netbook, laptop) and printing to the printers at home, but this is more implementation effort and so more for Q.
<rodrigo_> ok, understood
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, sharing out printers is rather easy to implement.
<rodrigo_> this is not for printing to the cloud, but to allow printing to your local printers through the cloud
<tkamppeter> Yes.
<rodrigo_> so yes, sounds quite good, I'll have a thought about it
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, will you contact GNOME upstreamfor that?
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I am upstream for g-c-c
<rodrigo_> but yes, will discuss with marek, the guy doing the print stuff
<pitti> rodrigo_: it also requires changing g-o-a
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, great.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I added a w-i for you in the bp, as per pitti's comment
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, this WI is not needed, as pitti has done this already in the MIR for cloudprint.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, but I don't think we would need cloudprint as a separate package, right?
<rodrigo_> we can probably have that functionality in g-s-d
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, we will let the Ubuntu security team review cloudprint and if they approve it, we implement it the same way in g-s-d.
<rodrigo_> ok
<pitti> also see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloudprint/+bug/889018/comments/3
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 889018 in cloudprint "[MIR] cloudprint" [Medium,New]
 * pitti vetos yet another python daemon, we are trying to get rid of them
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, +100 :)
<tkamppeter> pitt, WI for integrating cloudprint in g-s-d added.
<tkamppeter> pitti, ^^
<pitti> seen, thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, rodrigo_, updated bug 888981.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 888981 in gnome-settings-daemon "Google account in Online Accounts section of GNOME Control Center needs support for Google Cloud Print" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888981
<tkamppeter> pitti, rodrigo_, is this OK for the Blueprint?
<rodrigo_> for now, seems so :)
<pitti> seems fine; doing the ubuntu-security review of cloudprint is still good, though, as presumably the architecture and security properties will be the same in a g-c-c/g-s-d implementation
<pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/canonical-desktop-team.html
<pitti> 303 WIs already
<pitti> we'll definitively need to cut quite many
<pitti> we have a limit of 160
<tkamppeter> pitti, for bug 882553 I have already started to work on. What I need first is to have https added to the server and I have already asked the admins at the LF and they wanted to do it for me quickly.
<tkamppeter> pitti, as soon as it is done we need to do a security update of cupshelpers which adds the access through https and the check of the certificate of OP's https.
<jdstrand> tkamppeter: see privmsg
<tkamppeter> pitti, the modeswitch blueprint should be ready for approval now.
<nessita> hello everyone!
<pitti> tkamppeter: already done
<pitti> hey nessita, how are you?
<nessita> pretty good!
<nessita> pitti: trying to learn a bit more about packaging
 * pitti lunch, bbl
<seif> rodrigo not around
<seif> ?
<pitti> seif: he was two hours ago
<seif> what happened ?
<pitti> I don't know
<tkamppeter> pitti, it seems that now all my BPs are approved, thanks for that, how about the Blueprint about the CPD? As it is a Q Blueprint it probably does not need to get approved now?
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, as by that time it might have changes anyway
<pitti> so we can review it in 6 months
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK, until then there will also be an OpenPrinting Summit and another UDS and a lot of time for larsu, mpt, and others to work on the design.
<tkamppeter> pitti, and the U1 cloud print BP I think I do not need to move to approval as its assignee is Stuart Langridge. Am I right?
<pitti> right, that's U1 land
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you upload CUPS into Debian and Ubuntu? Once it contains changes for the new printing package scheme and second it contains some USB printer bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> pitti, the ones I asked you for testing, but now I have test results from the original reporters of the bugs.
<pitti> ah, nice, thanks!
<Sweetshark> pitti
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> heya
<Sweetshark> pitti: Im just building a 3.4.4-0ubuntu1 for oneiric-proposed. If it succeeds are you ready for upload?
<pitti> Sweetshark: in the next hour or so, yes; otherwise on Monday
<Sweetshark> yes, it should have finished the test build by then
<Sweetshark> I can sign and upload to chinstrap already, I guess
<pitti> sure
<pitti> tkamppeter: done
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the CUPS SRU for bug 887094?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 887094 in cups "usb printer backend crashes" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/887094
<Sweetshark> pitti: uploaded
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-12
<cdbs> time to push the Papercuts cart and make it move....
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-11-13
<LLStarks> slangasek, is there any way to get wine on on precise? i read you ia32-libs list post, but i'm still confuzzled
<LLStarks> ia32-libs from oneiric works, but it seems hackish
<micahg> LLStarks: fix the rdepends to work with multiarch :)
<LLStarks> sounds good
<micahg> err, I meant wine's dependencies...
<LLStarks> what's wrong with the oneiric approach?
<micahg> no more ia32-libs, it just depends on the libraries now
<LLStarks> so, if i need libc6:i386, it's called on its own?
<micahg> LLStarks: so, the idea is to have the dependencies of ia32-libs-multiarch actually be fixed to be multiarch compliant
<micahg> but yes, the idea is the dependencies should be pulled in as needed if expressed properly
<LLStarks> cool thx
<RAOF> Good morning, gentles all.
<jasoncwarner_> hey RAOF , how are things?
<RAOF> jasoncwarner_: Good.
<RAOF> A post-UDS week is an excelent plan!
<jasoncwarner_> RAOF: :) I had two kids with jetlag, which is always fun
<RAOF> Hah, this seems to be the first precise breakage.
<RAOF> Compiz is no longer interested in changing focus with the mouse or alt-tab :)
<RAOF> Hm.  Gesture stuff works.  I guess someone has a pointer grab.
<broder> RAOF: i've been seeing that on oneiric every once in a while, and i can never figure out what's actually going on
<RAOF> broder: According to Xorg.0.log synaptics burnt through the MI event queue.
<RAOF> And now, as if by magic, everything works again.
<RAOF> Hah.
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-05
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, comment vas-tu?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi? comment s'est passÃ© le voyage de retour?
<pitti> didrocks: tout etait bien, merci
<pitti> c'Ã©tait une voyage calme
<pitti> et j'ai faire beaucoup de hacking :)
<didrocks> oui, j'ai lu ton post sur g+ ;)
<didrocks> hey larsu, uneventful flying back home? :)
<larsu> didrocks, yup, all 40 minutes of it ;)  And for you?
<didrocks> larsu: all good for me, no surprise ;)
<duflu> I think I left my heart in San Francisco... and my body clock in Copenhagen :P
<didrocks> duflu: take it easy until you can get used to your timezone again :)
<seb128> hey desktopers
<sil2100> ;p
<mlankhorst> heya
<didrocks> hey seb128, sil2100, mlankhorst!
<sil2100> Morning everyone!
<mlankhorst> my body clock is slowly shifting towards amsterdam again, waking up later than before :p
<BigWhale> good morning all
<seb128> hey didrocks sil2100 mlankhorst BigWhale
<mlankhorst> waking up at 7 was fun while it lasted
<BigWhale> hey seb
<BigWhale> So, are there any guidelines about unit testing GTK?
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey Laney
<chrisccoulson> hey desktop team
 * Laney saw Skyfall yesterday... some creative computing in there
 * Laney strips off the packet headers to decypher the GPS trace
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, Laney!
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, Laney, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, Laney, seb128
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. did you get back ok?
<Laney> good thank you
<Laney> going through a forced mobile phone detox ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, going back was fine, I was home at 11am on saturday, got some ubuflu though :-(
<seb128> Laney, you broke your phone?
<Laney> yeah I did it after the UDS party
<seb128> ouch
<xnox> Laney: it wasn't exactly christmas for creative computing =) but I liked that it was mostly in London & Scotland.
<Laney> waiting for the nexus 4 to come out
<Laney> xnox: yeah, the locations were good
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, that sucks :(
<chrisccoulson> i've not been too bad since i got back. and i biked for more than 100km since friday too :)
<seb128> you crazy man ;-)
<seb128> training for the tour de france next year? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, all of my daily builds failed last week because my PPA's all ran out of space :/
<chrisccoulson> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+packages
<seb128> you are fighting with Sweetshark on disk space? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> not sure where more than 20GB is going there :/
<chrisccoulson> and it seems a coincidence that they've all ran out of space at the same time
<chrisccoulson> all 3 PPA's :/
<chrisccoulson> launchpad bug? ;)
<chrisccoulson> oh yes, it's full of old builds: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/thunderbird-aurora/ubuntu/pool/main/t/thunderbird/
<xnox> chrisccoulson: old builds... you mean like 5 days old? =)
<chrisccoulson> xnox, daily builds from 24th october ;)
<pitti> hey seb128, how are you?
<pitti> hey Laney, morning chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<seb128> pitti, hey, I'm ok, got some ubuflu though ... you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: je suis desolÃ© Ã  entendre que
<chrisccoulson> xnox, it's bug 1071562 (from #launchpad)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1071562 in Launchpad itself "UEFI signing failures cause binaries to be republished continuously" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071562
<didrocks> on my phone connection as it seems my ISP provider decided to stop workingâ¦
<pitti> desrt: hey Ryan, how are you? got a minute today?
<Sweetshark> hmm, were do I ask for a fresh canonicaladmin password again?
<Laney> I think #hr internal
<Sweetshark> Laney: thx
<Alpic> Hi all.
<Alpic> Just need to know how to integrates pidgin in unity notification area : any idea a?
<Alpic> Anyone there ?
<mitya57> Alpic: I think the broken integration is bug 1040259
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1040259 in skype-wrapper "FFE: libmessaging-menu transitions for quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040259
<Alpic> thanks for the tip
<mhr3> seb128, we lost the pkexec patch from gnome-system-log again? :/
<desrt> pitti: hi
<desrt> jbicha: pong
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you? had a safe trip?
<seb128> mhr3, seems like somebody re-enabled that yes :-(
<desrt> pitti: yup.  nice and uneventful. :)
<desrt> seb128: greetings
<seb128> desrt, hey, how are you?
<desrt> everyone else back home safe or still some lingerers behind?
<pitti> desrt: the best kind :)
<mhr3> seb128, how come debian is fine with pkexec? did they patch it or glib or something?
<pitti> desrt: I wondered if you could have a look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686149 and check it's what you meant
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 686149 in general "fix class initialisation" [Normal,Assigned]
<desrt> seb128: very happy!  i'm still riding the happy jetlag that lets me wake up at 8am and feel like it's past noon :)
<seb128> lol
<pitti> it _is_ past noon! :-)
<desrt> attente: hey.  what's up?  back home?
<seb128> mhr3, they are not, they "fixed" that recently: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-system-log/news/20121012T153227Z.html
<attente> desrt: yes :)
<desrt> attente: Ähu venos vi al esperanto vespere?
<attente> desrt: i didn't practice any
<attente> desrt: better i just skip
<desrt> nenioj levionoj?
<desrt> *lec
<seb128> hey attente, had a good flight back?
<desrt> looks like i am out of practice as well :)
<attente> seb128: i'm alive, that's enough for me :)
<seb128> hehe
<mhr3> seb128, hmm, and the reporter lies about StartupNotify, it doesn't fix it :P
<xnox> didrocks: I noticed that on the desktop-r-2d-test-environments I got a workitem "fix ubiquity-frontend-gtk to not pull in metacity"
<xnox> didrocks: while in the "foundations-r-arm-ubiquity" I got a workitem "fix ubiquity-frontend-gtk to optionally use compiz/unity instead of metacity"
<xnox> didrocks:  Is that the same thing or do you want ubiquity to work with lxce window manager?
<didrocks> xnox: it's the same one I would say :)
<didrocks> xnox: so pick the blueprint your prefer
<xnox> didrocks: hmm.... I'm picking your blueprint at it has higher priority and I don't want this work item to sink.
<didrocks> xnox: thanks!
<jbicha> desrt: hey, I think we need to patch yelp to convert help:gnome-help URI prefixes to help:ubuntu-help when running Unity
<jbicha> I expect that somebody good at string manipulation could do that in a few minutes but it would take me a whole lot longer to figure it out
<desrt> instead of having patches all over various desktop components like nautilus?
<jbicha> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/yelp/raring/view/head:/src/yelp-application.c#L379
<jbicha> desrt: yes :)
<desrt> jbicha: a worthy cause :)
<desrt> jbicha: that's a pretty nasty place to be doing the tweak...
<jbicha> oh it seemed to be the right place but you're welcome to do it somewhere else
<desrt> jbicha: it depends on what you want to do
<desrt> do you want to redirect *all* uri requests from one place to the other?
<desrt> or only the ones given on the commandline directly
<desrt> what if, for example, the help of some application made a link to the gnome docs?
<larsu> seb128, thanks for updating the descriptions of those indicator-messages SRU bugs
<seb128> larsu, yw, thanks for providing the testcases ;-)
<larsu> desrt, hey! had a good flight back?
<larsu> seb128, np :)
<jbicha> desrt: wouldn't that be the same place? doesn't yelp interpret those the same way as commandline args?
<jbicha> I just want the help links to work; I'm fine with the command line working w/o being mangled but I didn't think it worked that way
<desrt> larsu: yup. you?
<desrt> jbicha: the commandline arg thing is only for commandline args...
<desrt> i doubt that yelp reinvokes itself on the commandline when clicking a link in a document
<larsu> desrt, yeah. Had a bit of an ubuflu this weekend, though
<pitti> desrt: so the main point of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686149 was to not add any interfaces after g_type_class_ref(), right? the patch does that now, I believe; or was there more to it?
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 686149 in general "fix class initialisation" [Normal,Assigned]
<pitti> hey larsu
<pitti> larsu: urgh, ubuflu again? gute Besserung!
<desrt> pitti: sorry.  under a pile of bugs/patches/reviews at the moment :)
<larsu> hi pitti! Did you enjoy Copenhagen?
<desrt> pitti: yours is next on the list :)
<pitti> desrt: ack, not that urgent
<pitti> larsu: yes, I did! http://www.piware.de/fotos/UDS-Kopenhagen-Oct2012/
<jbicha> desrt: oh, so yelp_application_new_window is what we want?
<desrt> jbicha: probably even deeper...
<desrt> jbicha: i'd talk to shaunm
<desrt> it may even be that you need some kind of webkit hook.  i don't know how it's implemented.
<jbicha> ok, I'll ask him, I think my main problem is that I didn't know how to properly sed a string
<desrt> i can help with that part
<desrt> so we have like gnome-help:foo and we want ubuntu-help:foo, right?
<larsu> pitti, you saw the mermaid! Awesome, isn't it ;)
 * larsu likes the picture of seb128 best
<pitti> larsu: well, I was a bit underwhelmed by that one :)
<desrt> and let's say we have the string in an input string 'instr' and want to produce a new string 'outstr'
<desrt> so first, the check:
<desrt> if (g_str_has_prefix (instr, "gnome-help:"))
<pitti> larsu: https://plus.google.com/107564545827215425270/posts/CHKYc34MGt7 :)
<larsu> ya that one
<desrt> in that case we want to drop the first 11 characters ("gnome-help:") and concatenate the remainder with our own prefix, so:
<desrt>   outstr = g_strconcat ("ubuntu-help:", instr + 11, NULL);
<jbicha> yeah I kind of figured out the first line, it's the next that I wasn't sure about
<desrt> else
<desrt>   outstr = g_strdup (instr);
<desrt> ^^ straight copy
<desrt> so either way we end up with a freshly-allocated 'outstr' that contains the new value
<jbicha> desrt: ok cool
<desrt> it's a bit of a point of style in glib-ish circles not to do conditional memory allocation
<desrt> ie: even though it's a waste to allocate the exact copy, we do it anyway for consistency with the other case
<desrt> because it helps avoid leaks caused by weird logic bugs
<desrt> it's easier to just always free....
<jbicha> mterry: I tried to start on the System Settings Appearance panel but I didn't know what I was doing so it doesn't really work
<mterry> jbicha, OK.  You mean to make it a separate panel from Background?
<jbicha> yeah; maybe it doesn't actually need to a separate panel
<seb128> hey mterry, had a good flight back?
<mterry> seb128, yeah  :)
<mterry> jbicha, why not?
 * kenvandine waves
<mterry> kenvandine, hi!
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, how are you?
<kenvandine> tired :)
<kenvandine> and you?
<seb128> good, though ubuflued slightly
<kenvandine> ugh
<kenvandine> hopefully that passes quickly :)
<seb128> it had to happen, wouldn't be UDS without that :p
<kenvandine> indeed
<jbicha> mterry: just because I couldn't get it to work and maybe it would be simpler to just have a separate .ui and .desktop and add some lines of code to the background panel
<attente> seb128: is it common to catch ubuflu?
<jbicha> attente: if you didn't catch it, you're lucky :)
<seb128> attente, yeah, it happens to a bunch of people at every UDS
<seb128> where bunch is a non trivial % of the team usually
<mterry> jbicha, eh, they are so different I think that if we can get separate panels to work, it would make sense.
<attente> heh
<mterry> seb128, did you have an opinion on where the Ubuntu Appearances panel should live once it's separated?  Still in g-c-c?
 * desrt managed to avoid it this time
<seb128> mterry, no strong opinion but I suppose it would be easier to maintain as a standalone component, would it only be for having its own vcs commit logs etc
<mterry> seb128, sure
<didrocks> desrt: it's all because you had an awesome roomate :)
<desrt> :D
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> didrocks, did you escape the ubuflu too?
<seb128> well I think there was not a lot of flu around
<kenvandine> i think i did... i just had alergies while i was there
<didrocks> kenvandine: yeah :) I think that's because I had a 4 week flu just a month before UDS. So strong body :)
<kenvandine> which are gon enow
<seb128> but pitti came with the flu and I was rooming with him so...
<seb128> well, classic UDS story ;-)
 * pitti hugs seb128
<pitti> je suis desolÃ©
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<didrocks> seb128: pitti: stop hugging! that's how it started :)
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> pitti, il n'y a pas de problÃ¨me, maintenant ou plus tard ... comme Ã§a c'est fait pour la saison
<pitti> IRC hugs are BzgA approved!
<didrocks> hÃ©hÃ© :)
<mdeslaur> we definitely need to quarantine dholbach during flu season
<qengho> My secret to avoiding Summit-disease was to be near the path of an enormous hurricane, get allergies from all the stirred-up airborne pollen and fungal spores, and be so sniffly and paranoid about getting other people sick at UDS that I washed my hands every hour. So, now allergies are gone, and no "flu".
<qengho> I'll plan a hurricane every time, if I can.
<kenvandine> qengho, :)
<kenvandine> qengho, i got on the plane in denmark sniffling... like i had been for nearly two weeks
<kenvandine> and got off the plane clear
<kenvandine> no more sniffles :)
<qengho> You may be alergic to umlauts, kenvandine.  Consult a doctor.
<kenvandine> hehe
<achiang> hello, where does one file bugs regarding plymouth? LP is telling me that there really isn't an LP project for it
<desrt> pitti: can you explain this unknown signal thing to me?
<desrt> pitti: i guess it's a _good_ thing that this warning is now emitted?
<desrt> the testcase appears to be engaging in some intentionally-incorrect behaviour
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, my pandaboard feels like it's going to catch fire!
<stgraber> achiang: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+filebug ?
<stgraber> achiang: upstream isn't using Launchpad so you won't find a launchpad.net/plymouth project
<desrt> chrisccoulson: firefox build? :)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, heh, how did you guess?
<desrt> chrisccoulson: because i know that you're not insane enough to try libreoffice?
<achiang> stgraber: thanks
<qengho> Ooo, sexy pandaboard. Some madman suggested I try to set up this Nexus 7 as a build machine.
<desrt> qengho: nexus 7 makes a nice build machine
<qengho> There he is!
<desrt> beats the pants off of a pandaboard in terms of performance
<qengho> Is cross-compliation such a mess that this even makes sense?
<desrt> cross-compilation sucks
<qengho> More than slow hardware does?
<desrt> no.
<desrt> there are all kinds of problems with build systems that try to compile and then use tools
<desrt> and even larger problems with things like gobject-introspection which need to open the just-built library in order to poke around its insides
<desrt> doesn't work so well when the library that you just built won't run on the machine that you're on
<rodrigo_> hi
<rodrigo_> any idea what's wrong on a package that complains about missing m4 dir when running aclocal in build stage?
<rodrigo_> creating the m4 directory makes it build ok, but I guess that's not the correct fix :)
<desrt> rodrigo_: 'mkdir m4' ?
<desrt> rodrigo_: i have 'mkdir -p m4' in some of my autogen scripts...
<rodrigo_> yeah, but I don't want to add that to debian/rules
<desrt> *shrug*
<desrt> building from git or a tarball?
<rodrigo_> tarball
<rodrigo_> a package
<desrt> weird.
<desrt> and it didn't dist any m4 macros?
<rodrigo_> locally creating the m4 dir makes it build ok
<rodrigo_> but launchpad then fails with that 'missing m4' error
<desrt> i guess the answer is that you should no attempt to run aclocal on a tarball....
<rodrigo_> desrt, I guess that's it, checking
<rodrigo_> ok, so it's autogen.sh that creates the empty m4 dir, so I guess debian/rules should be running autogen, not configure
<desrt> configure is not the problem....
<desrt> aclocal is
<desrt> there is one thing supported after you extact a tarball: ./configure
<pitti> re
<dobey> rodrigo_: are you running autoreconf, or just aclocal?
<desrt> if that's not working, file a bug upstream because their package is broken
<rodrigo_> dobey, dh_autoreconf
<pitti> desrt: I'm not sure why the warning wasn't shown before
<desrt> dh_autoreconf on a tarball is somewhat wrong-headed....
<rodrigo_> desrt, well, it might be my fault, I am packaging a new upstream release
<pitti> desrt: I stepped through with it in gdb, and it's running through the exact same code
<rodrigo_> the previous package should work, it's in quantal
<desrt> pitti: i suppose you consider it to be a good thing that we now get the warning, though
<pitti> desrt: you always get the python exception, but an additional warning doesn't hurt
<desrt> ah.  i see.
<desrt> okay
<desrt> pitti: what's the easiest way for me to exercise this code?
<desrt> run the pygobject testsuite?
<pitti> desrt: git am, and make check, yes
<desrt> k.
<pitti> I hope it still applies, we have made quite some changes today
 * pitti checks
<desrt> i'm adding my warning to glib to make sure that it breaks
<desrt> then i'm applying your patch and making sure it unbreaks :)
<pitti> ah, nice
<pitti> yep, still applies
<desrt> hm.  it's not breaking.
<pitti> the tests fail on glib warnings (except those where we explicitly expect and thus ignore them, but there's only a few)
<desrt> is it possible that you lack a testcase that implements interfaces?
<pitti> desrt: you mean it doesn't trigger your warning?
<pitti> explicitly in tests/test_interface.py, and I'd think implicitly all over the place
<pitti> desrt: when I removed either of the pyg_type_add_interfaces() calls, it failed all over the place
<desrt> fair enough
<desrt> either i'm loading the wrong libgobject or my warning is not working
<pitti> you are building/trying in jhbuid?
<desrt> ish
<desrt> strace says it's getting the right one
<pitti> if you build pygobject on quantal, you'll get some failures
<desrt> lemme poke around a bit more
<desrt> ahah.  it's actually getting the wrong one.
<desrt> hrmph.
 * desrt wonders if library paths get hardcoded in typelibs or something
<pitti> hm, I don't think so
<pitti> I remember hacking on glib while running sth. like LD_LIBRARY_PATH=~/upstream/glib/.libs python3 -c '...'
<desrt> ya.  my LD_LIBRARY_PATH is fine...
<pitti> but "make check" sets its own library path
<desrt> seems to be favouring a different flavour of the library, though
<pitti> tests/Makefile.am:      LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(builddir)/.libs:$$LD_LIBRARY_PATH \
<pitti> this is meant to preserve an already existing one
<desrt> i get the impression that this is libtool's fault
<desrt> yup!
 * desrt has such intense hatred for rpath...
<pitti> urgh, rpath? where?
<desrt> everywhere, if you're using libtool
<pitti> OMFGreally?
<desrt> as soon as you do --prefix=/something/outside/of/usr it sets the rpath on everything it installs
<desrt> so you get libfoo depending on a rpath'd version of libgobject in a particular place
<desrt> overriding your LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<desrt> utter utter braindamage
<pitti> $ chrpath -l ./gi/_gi.so
<pitti> ./gi/_gi.so: RPATH=/home/martin/upstream/pygobject/gi/_glib/.libs:/home/martin-scratch/gnome/lib64
<pitti> eek
<pitti> so presumably when I did above tests, I just did ./configure, not a jhbuild build
<desrt> i desperately hate .la files
<desrt> like, very very badly
<desrt> but it's nowhere near the level of my hatred for the fact that libtool sets rpath
<desrt> pitti: your patch seems to do the trick
<pitti> \o/
<desrt> let me upload my gobject patch...
<desrt> and see if you can come to the same conclusions
<pitti> yep, will do
<pitti> desrt: to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687659 ?
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 687659 in gobject "drop support for adding interfaces after class_init" [Normal,New]
<desrt> yup
<desrt> attaching a patch there in just a moment
<desrt> okay.  patch is attached.
 * pitti runs jhbuild buildone glib
<desrt> pitti: before your pygobject patch I see:
<desrt> (process:22791): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: attempting to add an interface (TestInterface) to class (test_interface+MyObject) after class_init
<desrt> Trace/breakpoint trap
<desrt> after your patch, it works again
<pitti> confirmed, it's unhappy with the glib patch applied
<pitti> Ran 700 tests in 9.854s
<pitti> OK (expected failures=1)
<pitti> and that's with my patch
 * pitti ^5s desrt
<desrt> sweet :)
<desrt> i've commented about the positive test results on the bug
<desrt> it's up to you if you want to go ahead with pushing your patch
<desrt> in its own right it's a nice patch
<desrt> it will take a little more discussion on the glib side before i can push my patch....
<desrt> the glib testsuite itself is in the foul, for example
<pitti> desrt: I pushed it
<desrt> awesome
<pitti> I like it a lot more that way
<desrt> ya.  me too.
<pitti> while I'm in the mood of simplifying code :)
<desrt> even without the glib changes it makes more sense
<desrt> thanks a bunch
<pitti> and another firefox tab gone :)
<pitti> I had some 5 bz ones yesterday, and now it's down to 1
<desrt> ya.  this morning is pretty productive for me too :)
<mterry> didrocks, so did you want inline branches to be native or split?  /me is not partial, but wants to be consistent
<didrocks> mterry: we discussed it a little bit earlier with ken, split seems to be the best IMHO
<mterry> didrocks, k
<didrocks> thanks :)
 * didrocks is fighting jenkins to have fork and join jobs workflow
<mterry> didrocks, so this means no need to switch to format 3.0?
<didrocks> mterry: not really needed, indeed, this will make the SRU more readable to keep 1.0 if we need to cherry-pick at some point
<jbicha> GunnarHj: did you see my comment for bug 1035219?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1035219 in Baltix "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
<jbicha> while looking through all the gnome-control-center patches to get ready for 3.6 I stumbled across the 52 patch which needs work
<seb128> jbicha, if you do g-c-c work please commit to the vcs so we don't dup work, I already reviewed the whole patch stack and took notes, I was going to look at continuing on that soon (I commited by g-s-d 3.6 work to the vcs)
<jbicha> seb128: my g-c-c work is already committed
<seb128> jbicha, great ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, do you know if anyone is looking at getting realmd uploaded btw?
<jbicha> oh do we need that?
<jbicha> I think we're pretty close on having g-c-c/g-s-d 3.6 ready, we need to figure out the Appearance panel & 2 g-c-c patches need updating
<seb128> yes we need that, the user panel depends on it
<seb128> we also need the new ibus
<jbicha> there's still the keyboard/ibus indicator rework to do but I don't think that should be a blocker at this point
<seb128> I would like the ibus indicator to be updated if possible
<seb128> the g-s-d one will be harder
<jbicha> seb128: how do you want to handle that? we could push what we have to the desktop ppa so that it can be worked on
<seb128> jbicha, that works for me
<jbicha> or we could push to raring-proposed and as long as ibus has 1 nbs package, it won't migrate to raring
<seb128> jbicha, somebody needs to have a proper look to ibus, I plan to do that in the next weeks if nobody beats me to it
<seb128> jbicha, proposed is not meant for that, it's for things ready to be uploaded to the archive
<seb128> let's use the ppa
<jbicha> seb128: Debian experimental has already started, the initial testing I did in an experimental PPA last month seems to work
<jbicha> ok, I'll push to the PPA later today
<seb128> well, I don't think Debian ported our ibus indicator and tested if it still works under unity ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> jbicha, you had rb 2.98 ready for upload right? you should probably push it to raring
<chrisccoulson> heh, 90.2degC!
<chrisccoulson> will the panda die before the build finishes?
<achiang> chrisccoulson: you should get the new samsung chromebook. dual A15s + 2GB of memory
<achiang> only $250 USD
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Yes, I saw your bug 1035219 comment. Sounds as if you found a way to limit the importance of the bug for standard Ubuntu users, which is good, of course.
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1035219 in Baltix "In System Settings preference tool/keyboard layouts page automaticaly wrong language selectedGNOME" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035219
<GunnarHj> jbicha: As regards the g-c-c patch 52, please note that it's there for the User Accounts capplet only. Of course it will need work now when Region and Language is going to be used in Ubuntu.
<robru> pitti: ping
<jjohansen> so after updating this morning unity is failing to start for me, compiz appeared to be running but has finally crashed
<desrt> seb128: i guess you're watching on #g-h?
<seb128> desrt, I'm subscribed to the distributor list, saw it there
<desrt> cool
<seb128> desrt, no surprise there
<desrt> seb128: nope.
<desrt> and good that they're discussing it so openly and making decisions early and firmly
<seb128> though I didn't think they would drop the g-s-d "render the background" code
<desrt> a good followup question might be what happens to GnomeBG in libgnome-destkop
<seb128> that code didn't change for years and is working ... but, oh well
<desrt> seb128: we really want unity doing that rendering... seriously
<seb128> desrt, nautilus does it for us
<desrt> if we have nautilus rendering the desktop then that's one thing
<seb128> desrt, it gives us nice icons on the desktop :p
<desrt> because we have to draw the desktop anyway
<desrt> but if we don't have nautilus then the cost of having the background drawn by a process other than the WM is fairly high
<desrt> it's substantially more efficient to just do it from unity
<seb128> desrt, I think compiz has a plugin to draw the background *g*
<desrt> ;)
<desrt> seb128: unfortunately it doesn't have one to draw the background without snow falling on it or fire or smoke or something else
<seb128> well, a background without rain on it would be boring you have to admit
<desrt> ya.  that's true.
<desrt> and i forgot about the rain one
<desrt> rain is nice.  peaceful.
<desrt> pitti: is there some way that we can know if pygobject is the one doing the interface registration?
<desrt> pitti: i noticed for example that the class name appears to have '+' in it.  is this always the case?
 * desrt wants to avoid triggering the warning (in the short term) just because the user is running an old pygobject
<didrocks> have a good evening everyone!
<jbicha> seb128: realmd isn't really required for g-c-c as I've been using g-c-c 3.6 ok for the past month, it just adds some magic enterprise stuff, right?
<seb128> jbicha, not sure, I didn't look at it in details, but during the 3.5 cycle the configure.ac had an hard requirement on it
<jbicha> the hard requirement is gone at least
<seb128> ok
<seb128> still it would be good to get enterprise support in ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, did you see my rhythmbox question before?
<jbicha> seb128: yes, I was waiting for the quantal sru to be accepted into -proposed first but that's been done now
<seb128> ok
<seb128> jbicha, did you look at the new ibus yet? I will try to start on that tomorrow otherwise (just don't want to dup work)
<jbicha> seb128: I updated it so that I could play with ibus-enabled g-c-c but that was a month ago before Debian picked up the update; I didn't try to rewrite the indicator patch but just disabled it
<seb128> jbicha, ok, thanks
<qengho> kenvandine: I'm trying to make sense of chromium package versions.  E.g., "22.0.1.2~r12345-0ubuntu1".  I think revisions always add to a release, so should sort after. Not that we should ever just release "1.2.3.4" without "rev5678", but it seems awkward to me.
<qengho> ~ is good for naming prereleases, but I'm not sure it's best here.
<qengho> GOOG's chrome(tm) packages use hyphen, I notice.
<jbicha> qengho: I didn't think chromium did actual releases
<qengho> jbicha: there's no one to make packages except us, but they do indeed have releases.
<kenvandine> they define the release based on the revision
<kenvandine> or really a combination of revisions
<qengho> Hah, stable chrome and quantal packages have nearly identical versions right now.   http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1335481/
<kenvandine> http://omahaproxy.appspot.com/viewer
<qengho> kenvandine: AFAICT, revisions continue to accrue and add to a past release.
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> but they use the branch_revision to identify it
<qengho> So, 1.2.3 is released at revision 4.  They add rev 5 and rev 6 later, but it's still 1.2.3.
<kenvandine> i think so
<qengho> ...just 1.2.3-r6
<kenvandine> which is why we have the revision there
<qengho> Right.
<kenvandine> so i guess in this case "-" might make more sense
<qengho> kenvandine: this is not important at all, considering how we release.  I was just trying to get everything right.
<kenvandine> but it is probably never going to matter
<qengho> Yep.
<qengho> kenvandine: thanks.  Sorry for noise.
<kenvandine> and, we are really used to seeing the  ~ in versions like this
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> how's it going?
<kenvandine> qengho, i think it would make sense to attempt to build the dev channel for raring, but the patches.... ugh
<qengho> kenvandine: Everything is going good. I'll get to beta and dev patches next week, I expect.
<kenvandine> i know there will be big problems in the dev channel
<kenvandine> the changes for handling extensions
<kenvandine> will affect webapps
<kenvandine> so make sure you test the webapps integration
<kenvandine> and try to work with alex-abreu
<dobey> qengho: btw, did you get past that spot you were stuck on with the chromium builds, and posted on G+? did the u1 nightlies build stuff help?
<BigWhale> Greetings all
<kenvandine> hey BigWhale
<qengho> dobey: We decided to break the problem into two.  Merging lp translations before making the orig is out, and we'll send the translations upstream and receive them back already inside source.  It wins in many ways, but adds some lag.
<BigWhale> so if I wasn't deploying right now.. I'd be asking about guidelines for unit/integration testing in Gtk. Any docs on that lying around?
<dobey> qengho: cool
<BigWhale> dobey! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-ubuntuone/+bug/934206
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 934206 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone (Ubuntu Precise) "track duplication from RB-U1" [High,Fix released]
<BigWhale> dobey, I'm still seeing this ... :'(
<BigWhale> on 12.10
<dobey> BigWhale: unpossible!
<BigWhale> dobey, it might be a leftover from 12.04 ...
<BigWhale> but I am not sure.
<dobey> BigWhale: how are you seeing it? what are the paths of two duplicated files? what paths are in your library paths setting (gsettings get org.gnome.rhythmbox.rhythmdb locations)
<seb128> ricotz, you should talk to desrt about the
<seb128> #if !GLIB_CHECK_VERSION(2, 35, 0)
<seb128>    g_type_init ();
<seb128> #endif
<seb128> it was approved as I see, desrt doesn't like it though ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<ricotz> seb128, i see, i didnt want to break the backwards compatibility while glib 2.35 isnt available in ubuntu yet
<ricotz> seb128, what is desrt favorite solution? ;)
<ricotz> a runtime check?
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, ok
<seb128> ricotz, Trevinho: he said to use GLIB_VERSION_MIN_REQUIRED IIRc
<ricotz> seb128, i see
<BigWhale> dobey, actually I have only one file of each song ...
<dobey> BigWhale: see, i told you it was unpossible! :)
<BigWhale> yeah well rythmbox still shows two entries
<BigWhale> I'll just delete everything
<BigWhale> and see what happens
<dobey> BigWhale: oh, so that wasn't an answer to my question. the two entries point to the same path, for one song?
<dobey> BigWhale: also, the fix didn't remove existing duplicates; so they are probably left over
<BigWhale> that's what I was asking myself
<dobey> BigWhale: easiest fix is to remove ~/.local/share/rhythmbox/rhythmdb.xml and let it rescan everything
<BigWhale> I removed the whole rhythmbox directory :>
<BigWhale> I only have 5 mp3 so it won't take too long to rescan :>
<desrt> kenvandine: NC is looking a fainter and fainter shade of red ;)
<kenvandine> heh
 * kenvandine crosses fingers
<kenvandine> 55% of the voters voted early, so i should have short lines tomorrow
<desrt> that 55% figure is bad news for improving obama figures
<desrt> too late for people to change their minds
<mlankhorst> who cares
<desrt> mlankhorst: was a hot topic for discussion at UDS :)
<mlankhorst> whether you follow it or not, you still end up with the same president, so it's a waste of time following the news :-)
<mlankhorst> and for those cynical and outside the us, they still are going to do the same thing on foreign policy, which is basically pushing only us's point of view there, that's always been us' policy there :p
<achiang> kenvandine: desrt: do you guys know what package displays the suspend/shutdown/restart dialog when power button is pressed?
 * achiang guesses gnome-settings-daemon
<sarnold> achiang: see /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
<achiang> sarnold: doesn't exist on my nexus7 :)
<sarnold> achiang: hrm :)
 * achiang is chasing http://pad.lv/1041137
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1041137 in ubuntu-nexus7 "Activating suspend from power button menu does not work" [High,Confirmed]
<achiang> it works from indicator-session, but not from that dialog box
<achiang> so trying to figure out why that assert fails
<achiang> gnome-settings-daemon is indeed running as the logged in user and not as root or anything weird like that
<robert_ancell> Laney, hey, can you drop the gnome-games upload I just did to quantal-proposed? I should have numbered that -0ubuntu1.1 instead of -0ubuntu2
<robert_ancell> hang on, me checks if you're an archive admin...
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-06
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> desrt: I don't know off-hand, let me look
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<mitya57> hi tkamppeter__
<mitya57> did you see my patch in bug 1069324?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1069324 in hplip (Ubuntu) "diagnose_queues.py crashed with NameError in su_sudo(): global name 'utils' is not defined" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069324
<mitya57> if you are going to do an upload, please include it
<mitya57> ah, that patch also exists in debian experimental, will now forward it
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! how are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks
<chrisccoulson> oh, yippee! another API break: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/122148213/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.firefox-trunk_19.0~a1~hg20121105r112304-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<chrisccoulson> \o/
<chrisccoulson> i *love* these
<chrisccoulson> :/
<chrisccoulson> lol @ https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/265713941517303808
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't remember, did you need another stacktrace for me for thunderbird hanging?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yes please :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1336807/
<didrocks> all threads for your own pleasure :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, thanks. do you still have it open in gdb?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, I needed to start getting my emails for the day :/
<chrisccoulson> ah, that's ok
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I can try to stuck it once more if you need more info
<robru> pitti: ping
<tkamppeter> mitya57, thank you very much. I will apply it soon.
<pitti> hey robru, how are you? made it back in one piece?
<robru> pitti: nope! I am still in CPH ;-)
<robru> pitti: my flight is thursday.
<pitti> robru: oh right, I forgot
<pitti> found a couch?
<robru> pitti: yeah, I am staying in a student dorm. it is quite an experience here ;-)
<robru> pitti: I need to tap into your vast knowledge of pygobject
<robru> pitti: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk/view/head:/src/unity-lens-private.vala#L100 here is some vala code that overrides an object's constructor in order to set some construct-only properties that the default constructor won't do. is there any way to achieve this in python?
<pitti> robru: yes, it's working exactly the same way
<pitti> foo = Dee.SharedModel(prop1=value1, prop2=value2, ...)
<pitti> this is calling the GObject constructor
<seb128> hey desktopers
<pitti> Dee.SharedModel.new() would call the specific ctor instead
<didrocks> salut seb128
<mitya57> tkamppeter, thanks
<pitti> hey seb128, salut
<seb128> hey didrocks, pitti, mitya57, robru
<robru> pitti: really? Ahhhhhhhhhhh you have to use kwargs! I was trying positional args and it kept telling me that there was a maximum of 1 arg to the constructor
<robru> hey seb128
<pitti> robru: actually, the GObject ctor takes no positional args at all
<pitti> robru: so this works as long as the specific ctor does nothing else than allocating the object and set properties (which any well-behaved ctor should do)
<robru> pitti: I was doing foo=GObject.new(Dee.Peer) and that worked to create a Dee.Peer, but it warned about construct-only properties not being set
<pitti> robru: ah, I haven't actually tried that one; it might work with using kwargs there
<pitti> robru: but Dee.Peer(prop1=..., ...) looks a bit nicer IMHO
<pitti> LMAO @ https://plus.google.com/101824923181156392444/posts/1N6PcSMKL4g
<robru> pitti: hmmmm, yes the kwargs do seem to be working now that I've tried that. thanks!
<mitya57> hey seb128
<larsu> robru, sometimes the "_new" convenience methods look a bit nicer: for example Gio.ThemedIcon.new("quit") instead of Gio.ThemedIcon(name="quit")
<robru> larsu: yes, that was precisely the problem; the _new method for this particular object is broken and accepts no arguments, so I'm trying to work around that.
<robru> brb
<pitti> larsu: that's precisely the difference: Class() -> Gobject constructor Class.new -> calling class_new() ctor
<larsu> pitti, yep. For a properly written foo_new this should be exactly the same, though
<pitti> larsu: not quite, as _new() might take positional arguments and might set additional properties which the GObject ctor won't
<pitti> e. g. you can write Gtk.Button.new_with_label('foo') or Gtk.Button(label='foo')
<larsu> true, I meant when giving the same properties to g_object_new
<pitti> *nod*
<larsu> in any case, foo_new should at least take all construct-only properties as positional args
<larsu> otherwise it's worhless
<larsu> *worthless
<pitti> right; that seems to be a bug in dee
<seb128> pitti, bug in dee, mhr3 will tell you that's non-sense ;-)
<mhr3> damn right! :P
<pitti> oh sorry, "undocumented feature" of course!
<mhr3> you're holding it wrong :)
<robru> back
<robru> pitti: thanks again
<pitti> no worries
<seb128> didrocks, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf ... not sure if the SRU team still does pocket copies from <n-1>-updates to <devel> but could you check and get the current version uploaded to R if they don't?
<didrocks> seb128: I kept an eye on those, bamf is not the only one is that case. Some were copied, other weren't. I plan to fix that by eow
<didrocks> (also, funny to see fast propagation of bamf, just few days in proposed after all ;))
<robru> didrocks, why haven't i seen any photos of myself from copenhagen yet???
<robru> I seem to remember somebody snapping a few ;-)
<didrocks> robru: want to be on g+? ;)
<robru> didrocks, haha, sure ;-)
<didrocks> robru: will do later today then! ;)
<pitti> robru: I have some of you
<pitti> robru: http://piware.de/fotos/UDS-Kopenhagen-Oct2012/
<robru> pitti, oh no, these may limit my career ;-)
<pitti> nah, all safe!
<pitti> not quite as cool as seb128 in http://piware.de/fotos/UDS-Kopenhagen-Oct2012/slide_47.html, of course :)
<robru> seb128 is a badass ;-)
<seb128> back from lunch
<seb128> didrocks, ok, no hurry, I just wanted to point it, SRU team has been talking in the past of stopping the pocket copies ... I will check with them what's their official position there
<didrocks> seb128: would be good to have an official position, yeah :)
<seb128> pitti, robru: come on, I'm even smiling on that one ;-)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Can you please take a look at my response to your comment at https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/indicator-datetime/days-months/+merge/132643
<GunnarHj> Want to make sure that I'm not missing anything.
<pitti> GunnarHj: right, I understand the purpose of that patch
<pitti> GunnarHj: I just don't have a strong opinion on whether or not we should go down that route, but it's fine for me
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. Your talk about translations just made me wonder. Thanks.
<pitti> GunnarHj: I mean the localized month/weekday names
<GunnarHj> pitti: Yes, I realize that now.
<pitti> e. g. with LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 and LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8, right now you should get "Tue", but with that patch "Mar"
<pitti> because it would take the short/long week day names from the French locale, not the English one?
<pitti> seb128: do you want https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-arm-input-sensor-drivers for raring? if so, could you milestone it, or would you mind if I do?
 * pitti wants his WIs to appear on https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+upcomingwork
<seb128> pitti, yes for raring, feel free to do it
<seb128> pitti, danke ;-)
<pitti> fini
<pitti> (is that acceptable for "done"?)
<chrisccoulson> oh, perfect. 18 days vacation actually does fit perfectly in to the whole of december :)
<didrocks> seb128: if you are on paperwork mood, can you accetp
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ffox better doesn't get major holes/bugs in December then :)
<didrocks> accept* those blueprints milestoned for raring:
<seb128> pitti, (it's acceptable ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, great
<chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, else i'll just end up working ;)
<didrocks> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ps-processes
<didrocks> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru
<pitti> but I find that splitting holidays into several smaller chunks is more relaxing, as it decreases the chances of having to work after all
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<didrocks> seb128: thanks!
<seb128> yw ;-)
<pitti> with didrocks' new TL credentials he should actually be able to target specs, etc
<didrocks> pitti: I wasn't able yesterday, do you know on which team I should be?
<seb128> pitti, well, you need a good chunk off work to really disconnect from work as well...
<pitti> est-ce que c'est l'Ã©quipe "ubuntu-drivers" ?
<didrocks> pitti: should I just bother cjwatson with it? :)
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: hang on, let's sort out the perms properly
<seb128> k
<pitti> didrocks: try now
<desrt> pitti: i decided to go ahead and just push the glib changes yesterday
<desrt> so anyone with an old pygobject will be broken...
<pitti> hey desrt, how are you
<desrt> pitti: good
<desrt> needing coffee :)
<pitti> desrt: ah, I can't yet bump the glib dep in pygobject
<didrocks> pitti: \o/ working :) thanks!
<seb128> desrt, you could have waited for friday :p
<pitti> desrt: as glib doesn't do post-release version bumps
<pitti> desrt: I'm holding back the gpollfd patch until after the next glib release for that
<desrt> pitti: we theoretically do post-release bumps
<desrt> i just forget a lot :)
<pitti> ah, heh
<desrt> lemme do that n ow
<desrt> okay
<seb128> it would be nice if somebody would fix GNOME's #commits
<desrt> ya... our #commits are terrible... always containing lots of #bugs and #regressions
 * seb128 slaps desrt
<desrt> oh.  sorry.  forgot the @seb128 ? :)
<seb128> desrt, #itsnotfridayyet
<seb128> srly! ;-)
<pitti> desrt: cheers! actually, the benefit of that is that all the "interesting" api changes are already in, so bumping the dep in pygobject now will ensure that it's working :)
<pitti> actually, I don't need 3.7.2; 3.4.2 would be sufficient as well, I backported all the annotation fixes I'm depending on
<pitti> err, what am I talking about; I mean 2.35.2 vs. 2.34.2
<pitti> so GNOME 3.6.2 is due next week, good; then the glib fixes will land
<desrt> pitti: only if they are backported?
<larsu> hm, indicator-appmenu assumes that xids are only ever used once.... there goes 2h of debugging in a totally wrong place :(
<pitti> desrt: we'll just get 2.34.2 into exprerimental and raring?
<pitti> desrt: oh, misunderstood you -- I already applied the annotation fixes to the glib-2-34 branch
<desrt> interesting.
<desrt> seb didn't say anything about taking the new stable glib
<pitti> why wouldn't we get it into raring?
 * desrt should push all of his crap there ;)
<pitti> I thought we'd even track 2.35 in raring
<desrt> not until january, i think
<desrt> seb doesn't want to pull it in until i'm back from vacation
<pitti> so, seems fine
<pitti> I'm only relying on what's in glib-2-34 for current pygobject
<desrt> cool
<pitti> desrt: I'd love to land the gpollfd patch, if I can cherry-pick the boxing to glib-2-34?
<pitti> it should be quite harmless; or are even API additions banned?
<desrt> pitti: i'm a no-new-API-on-stable-branches kind of guy
<pitti> ack
<pitti> good, holding that back then until we get 2.35
<desrt> pitti: maybe you could ask mclasen
<desrt> he loves new API on stable branches ;)
<pitti> lol
<pitti> nah, I'm not going to second-guess you until I found the least strict maintainer
<pitti> it's not really hurting, it's more a matter of pride and cleaning up
 * desrt starts a new (daily?) ritual
<desrt> digging through last night's 'jhbuild tinderbox' logs, filing bugs
<GunnarHj> pitti: Re your comment at 13:30:31: Yes, exactly so.
<pitti> Laney: ah, I had a lot of gvfs changes staged up in ubuntu:gvfs
 * pitti fiddles with the branch to merge the last uploads
<pitti> I guess using UDD is not working very well
<larsu> desrt, morning :)  Any idea why indicator-appmenu doesn't destroy its internal data structures until 5 seconds after BAMF told it a window disappeared? The comment isn't really helpful: "Timeout to finally cleanup the window.  Causes is to ignore glitches that come from BAMF/WNCK."
<larsu> that's really buggy, because it breaks menus that appear on the same xid less than 5 seconds after the old one disappeared
<desrt> larsu: that's not possible
<larsu> what isn't?
<desrt> unless you mean that an xid was being reused
<larsu> yes
<larsu> that's exactly what happens
<larsu> bug 1075263
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1075263 in Application Menu Indicator "Items of a menubar built from GMenu do not always work" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1075263
<desrt> this sounds like a bamf issue....
<larsu> why? The question is the timeout
<desrt> indicator-appmenu doesn't really care about xid at all
<desrt> it treats the BamfWindow itself as the identifier
<larsu> yes it does, it has a hash table of xid->window menus
<desrt> if bamf is reusing BamfWindow structures on the basis of two windows happening to have the same xid....
<desrt> ohhhh.
<desrt> sorry.  was thinking hud.
<rodrigo_> how do I downgrade a package in a PPA to the previous version it had in the PPA?
 * desrt didn't write the appmenu code
<larsu> desrt, nope. The bug is definitely caused by the timeout
<larsu> desrt, you were the last one who touched it ;)  And tedg is not online yet ...
<larsu> but nevermind, I'll ask ted when he comes on
<larsu> just thought you might have an idea
<desrt> larsu: my answer is that it should be keyed by BamfWindow (via qdata?) instead of xid
<desrt> treating xid as an identifier is trouble
<larsu> desrt, agreed, and that's what my fix will be. I'm just wondering about the timeout thing
<desrt> i have no idea
<desrt> better wait until ted's awake?
<larsu> yup
<desrt> i'm guessing it's because bamf sometimes issues spurious events and we want to ignore them?
<desrt> but only based on what you said :)
<desrt> pitti: were you planning to get systemd into the archive soon?
<desrt> or is that something you completely lost interest in?
<pitti> I'm not sure who will work on that
<desrt> k
<pitti> no, I'm interested in it; I want a current udev
 * desrt wants to be able to build gnome-settings-daemon....
<pitti> it requires a bit of coordination though, as Debian's systemd is way behind as well (due to the freeze, presumably)
 * desrt wonders if perhaps he will need to start maintaining a PPA for dependencies of jhbuild....
<seb128> desrt, good luck to whoever set up a ppa replacing user's init system ;-)
<desrt> seb128: pitti did it back in the day.  i installed it and didn't even notice the difference.
<desrt> init systems just aren't that important....
<desrt> system services, on the other hand...
<pitti> desrt: well, you would once you tried to upgrade a package with an upstart job (as that fails with that PPA)
<desrt> pitti: ya... i was in a pretty stock desktop-only world
<desrt> i don't even think i had sshd installed...
<pitti> desrt: you'll have a lot of upstart jobs on a default desktop system, though; e. g. cups
<desrt> as if i print :p
<pitti> neither do I, but cups (or any package shipping an upstart job) fails to install/upgrade with systemd
<pitti> we need a shim for what dh_installinit does to work with upstart
<desrt> oh.  ow.
<desrt> so looks like debian has a libsystemd-login-dev package...
<desrt> and it works.  excellent!
<Laney> pitti: doh, sorry
<Laney> that matches my experience with trying to stage changes sadly
<pitti> Laney: no problem
<pitti> I merged my changes, now fixing the new failure with py3.3
<Laney> I usually do check for desktop team branches though
<pitti> gvfs has been the "UDD example" that we picked
<pitti> because it was in sync with Debian for a while, and still very close
<pitti> so our ~ubuntu-desktop branches got outdated very often after each sync
<pitti> so again, no harm done, just pointing out that we should try UDD on gvfs
<Laney> will try to remember
<pitti> Laney: and if not, bzr merge is at least infinitely better than merge-o-matic :0
<jbicha> seb128: I think we should drop the 02_title_update.patch from ibus, it was added for bug 596058
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 596058 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Rename Menu item Ibus preferences to "Keyboard Input Methods"" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/596058
<seb128> jbicha, hey, does it create any issue or is misleading?
<jbicha> since we don't use menus like that any more & they didn't update the program's titlebar to match anyway
<seb128> jbicha, what part of the patch? renaming the desktop entry from "IBus Preferences" to "Keyboard Input Methods" still make sense imho, users don't know what "IBus" is and shouldn't have to know
<jbicha> I think for most purposes, the new Input Sources part of System Settings 3.6 is adequate for setting up ibus
<seb128> jbicha, so you think we should hide the .desktop from the dash?
<seb128> e.g use us NoDisplay=true?
<seb128> what about non GNOME desktops?
<jbicha> no, I'm not sure about hiding it at this point; my objections were that the patch was incomplete & the rationale for the patch was based on the obsolete menu system
<seb128> jbicha, what part of the patch? I think the .desktop renaming makes sense, it gives a better title for the entry in gnome-shell/unity-dash/...
<seb128> not sure about the code changes though
<jbicha> the titlebar should match the .desktop
<seb128> jbicha, what about fixing the titlebar instead? ;-)
<jbicha> there isn't any packagekit integration yet that I can see so a user may very well need to know that the system is called ibus to install the input method they need
<desrt> chrisccoulson: is our e-d-s thunderbird stuff upstream or ubuntu-specific?
<desrt> chrisccoulson: e-d-s 3.7.1 breaks thunderbird
<seb128> desrt, I'm so glad we decided to not update GNOME ;-)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, yeah, that's just an addon we ship
<desrt> seb128: unstable cycle is unstable, kthx :p
<chrisccoulson> I LOVE EDS!
<seb128> desrt, unwhat? I forgot what that means
 * seb128 pets rolling stable cycle
<desrt> sure :p
<seb128> desrt, joke aside the "oh, updating e-d-s broke tb" is really something I would like to try avoiding over time ... not sure yet how we get there though
<seb128> I guess the reply is "have a testcase upstream in GNOME that test clients and reject commits if they break them"
<seb128> or something around that line
<desrt> seb128: won't help us much when the breakage is in our custom addons
<seb128> desrt, well, that's a "client"
<seb128> don't provide an api if you don't want people to use it...
<desrt> software interactions are more complicated than that....
<pitti> *cough* kernel *cough*
<desrt> the kernel is hilarious, imho
<desrt> on one hand they harp on about 100% stable APIs forever
<desrt> on the other hand, their module API is changing every release
<desrt> stable APIs are sure easy when you have absolute separation between yourself and the thing that you are trying to be stable with respect to
<seb128> well, GNOME has a tendency to go too far on the other side "incompatible changes are ok as long as we fix our known rdepends as the same time" ... those are still incompatible and they are people out there you don't know about and that you might break
<seb128> well anyway
<seb128> not something we will change today by a discussion on IRC
<desrt> seb128: that behaviour is really a feature of the gnome3 days
<seb128> so let's go back to work ;-)
<desrt> and it's still early in the 3 major cycle :)
<seb128> desrt, it's good for GNOME as a desktop, it's bad for GNOME as a platform
<desrt> by the time we have 3.30 everyone will be complaining about about how nothing ever changes :p
<desrt> *again
<achiang> desrt: the kernel promise is that *internal* APIs are subject to change, but external APIs (sysfs, ioctl, etc.) are pretty much "forever" FSOV "forever"
<seb128> desrt, by that time I guess "real world" will start using GTK3 for their apps :p
<desrt> achiang: fsov -> fsvo?
<achiang> oops, yeah, typo
<desrt> seb128: i look forward to those days with a sense of fear :p
<seb128> ;-)
 * desrt enjoys pointless irc discussions while bisecting...
<seb128> pitti, impressive gvfs upload
<desrt> seb128: libsoup is going to have to be on the new-this-cycle list, btw
<pitti> seb128: heh
<Laney> can we keep that list on the pad?
<seb128> desrt, that's a sloppy path ... next you will want e-d-s ... I start wondering if we should hold on old glib
<seb128> hold->stay
<desrt> seb128: you're kidding, right? :p
<seb128> desrt, no
<desrt> seb128: it's not the glib<->libsoup thing that's the issue
<desrt> it's the libsoup<->gvfs thing
<seb128> tell me more about it
<desrt> the two masters don't currently build against each other
<seb128> why?
<desrt> since gvfs uses private libsoup API and libsoup just put its symbol export list under more formal control
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595176
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 595176 in Misc "Private symbols are exported in the shared libraries" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<pitti> bonsoir tout le monde!
<desrt> pitti: ciao
<seb128> pitti, bonsoir
<desrt> seb128: it's theoretically possible that the gvfs changes can be made without using new libsoup API...
<desrt> and in fact, as it is, keeping old libsoup actually avoids the problem entirely
<seb128> desrt, thanks for the warning
<desrt> but the fix may change that...
<seb128> I will keep it on my "to watch" list
<desrt> seb128: btw: the reason i am noticing all this crap is because i'm running a pretty complete jhbuild desktop under the new glib
 * larsu hopes never to get on the "to watch" list of seb128
<desrt> no major issues related to all the glib breaking
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<desrt> seb128: another to-watch for you is this trivial issue: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687763
<ubot2`> Gnome bug 687763 in gobject "libxul apps (Firefox, thunderbird) regressed by automatic g_type_init() ctor" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> could be fixed by a well-placed "//" in libxul :)
<seb128> desrt, I'm sure chrisccoulson will like that ;-)
<chrisccoulson> normally when i see "chrisccoulson will like that", i take that as my cue to run ;)
<BigWhale> I just noticed that software updater has only "restart" button. I hope someone already repoted this bug... I have to xkill it :/
<larsu> BigWhale, right click on launcher->quit. Not having a close button is a design decision...
<larsu> (to keep a reminder open that you should restart)
<mpt> BigWhale, it's a not a firm decision, but I'm not sure what a "Don't Restart Now" button would do exactly
<mpt> (Would it remind you in 1 hour? etc)
<BigWhale> Never remind again, remind later, restart would be the best
 * larsu votes for red session menu icon
<desrt> larsu: voting for red?  better hide from kenvandine ;)
<larsu> not in NC, obviously ;)
<larsu> that's all he cares about !
<mpt> chrisccoulson, hi. Is bug 705893 what causes all Firefox and Thunderbird menus to open initially as tiny stubs, and then inflate?
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 705893 in Global menubar extension "Should delay menu opening whilst processing menu updates" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705893
<chrisccoulson> mpt, ja
<mpt> chrisccoulson, thanks. Unrelated question: Would you have any objection to making <https://launchpad.net/globalmenu-extension> part of the <https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-menu-bar> project group? It would help the Systems team find menu-related bugs that happen to manifest only in Firefox/Thunderbird.
<chrisccoulson> mpt, i guess that should be ok, although i can't click on the link at the moment (debugging browser in gdb) :)
<chrisccoulson> i suppose i could just view it in epiphany though ;)
<chrisccoulson> mpt, yeah, that looks ok
<seb128> chrisccoulson, view it in "web" you mean? :p
<chrisccoulson> hah!
<dupondje> could someone take a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1073649 please? Have no idea where to start debugging :)
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1073649 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm visible on tty1, and console visible in lightdm" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> dupondje, what video driver do you use?
<dupondje> seb128: nouveau
<dupondje> its always resolved after restarting lightdm, so it looks like a race condition somewhere ?
<seb128> dupondje, I know about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/873495 but I guess it's not the same issue if you use nouveau
<ubot2`> Launchpad bug 873495 in lightdm (Ubuntu Precise) "LightDM fails to start after nvidia-current or nvidia-current-updates are installed (upstart job issue)" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> hum, firefox wooopsed
<dupondje> seb128: lightdm starts always :) but some issues :p
<robru> pitti, I'm trying to write a test case that tests that some libsoup code I have is generating a correct multipart/form-data message for upload. libsoup is generating a random value to use as the form data separator. Are you aware of a way that I could mock that out to return the same value each time for easier testing?
<mpt> chrisccoulson, finished debugging? :-)
<didrocks> yummi regexp for the end of day: "((lp:?|bug)[ #]*|#|https://launchpad.net/bugs/)(\d{5,})" ;)
<seb128> didrocks, you can do better I'm sure!
<mlankhorst> bug didrocks!
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I've done worse, but it's almost 7PM :p
<didrocks> it matches http://paste.ubuntu.com/1337882/, see how kind I'm with our committers ;)
<seb128> didrocks, the launchpad guys are not so nice for .changes entries ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, you are giving your committers bad habits, they will get bitten when trying to do uploads ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, well, it's not that much additional work and I know real world, you knowâ¦ where everyone is not like us! :-)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> that enables to catch --fixes lp: and others commit message without bug associated :)
<qengho> kenvandine: uh oh, a new version of chromium-browser stable, 23.somethingorother.
 * qengho hurries more.
<kenvandine> qengho, uh oh :)
<seb128> qengho, what, it's out and not the in archive yet? build faster! :p
<kenvandine> seb128, i bet it'll break webapps integration
<kenvandine> it'll need a little work
<kenvandine> but qengho knows who to yell at about fixing that
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, well, breaking webapps integration, firefox did that today so let's play it fair and do the same to chrome :p
<kenvandine> hehe
<dobey> desrt: any idea why dconf-service would be using 237 MB RES?
<desrt> dobey: there's a leak
<desrt> dobey: fixed upstream, waiting for seb128 to SRU it
<dobey> ah ok
<attente> desrt: i'm getting a strange stack trace
<desrt> oh?
<attente> http://fpaste.org/kYUP/
<attente> frame #4 and #5 being relevant
<attente> is this a possible thing to happen?
<attente> it's calling this implementation, g_menu_attribute_hash_iter_get_next
<attente> still not sure why g_quark_from_string is getting called though
<desrt> attente: could be a tailcall?
<attente> desrt: not really sure
<desrt> if you are saying that the function in question does not call the funciton that it appears to be calling then probably it's a tailcall occuring in a 3rd function that you have to guess about
<desrt> look at the listed line number and check what's there
<attente> oh... i was looking at the wrong line number...
<desrt> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-07
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> robru: yes, have a look at python3-mock (http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/)
<pitti> robru: with that you can replace any existing method of any object with a stub
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
<pitti> robru: however, in this case I'd actually recommend to just take apart the result again with the multipart iterator and just check that the individual parts are right; then you don't need to hardcode the technical details of MIME, just check that it is parseable and has the right contents
<pitti> hey didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, dÃ©jÃ  bien chargÃ© en terme de travail, mais Ã§a va :) et toi?
<pitti> haha, sonne comme UDS
<pitti> je vais bien, merci!
<didrocks> pitti: post-UDS "surprise" plutÃ´t :)
<simpleirc> how do i install xfce instead of unity
<simpleirc> o
<sarnold> looks like there's an xfce package, try 'apt-get install xfce'
<simpleirc> thx , will it propagate in the login window like gnome , gnome 2d automatically
<sarnold> I hope so; if it doesn't, that feels like a reasonable bug report :)
<simpleirc> yep ! sorry im a windoz dork happy to find the world of FOSS
<simpleirc> cheers
<pitti> ah, gone; I was about to point out xubuntu-desktop
<sarnold> zounds, what a metapackage :)
<sarnold> but yes, that might have been a faster way to a more useful system.
<robru> pitti, oops, I guess what I really meant to ask was 'what is the name of the method that I should mock in order to accomplish this?' ;-)
<pitti> robru: hm, I'm not sure; there doesn't seem to be an obvious method for that in the meail.mime package
<pitti> robru: but as I said, I wouldn't actually go that far, as you are influencing the very thing you want to test
<pitti> I'd iterate over it with msg = email.message_from_binary_file(...) and msg.walk(), and check the individual components
<robru> pitti, wait, what are we talking about? I'm talking about using libsoup to upload files in multipart/form-data format... currently I am running a WSGI server in test mode that mirrors everything back to me, so I can submit a real request, and then the response is the result I sent; then I test that what was sent is what I expected. but to do so I need to determine what separator is being used.
<pitti> robru: but a multipart/MIME message shoudl tell you the separator in a header field
<pitti> robru: and you can use the email.mime python package to dissect it
<pitti> you can also compare the actual string, but that seems harder to me, and unnecessary
<robru> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~super-friends/friends/trunk/view/63/friends/tests/test_download.py#L229
<robru> pitti, yes, it is harder and unnecessary, that's why I want to simplify this test ;-)
<robru> pitti, (the purpose of this test is just to ensure that my uploading module is creating multipart messages correctly; so I can be notified if anything ever changes it's behavior)
<pitti> robru: email.mime shoudl handle multipart/POST requests just fine; I'm using it in apport (although the other way around)
<didrocks> oh, we don't have python3 bindings for launchpadlib?
<pitti> nope
<didrocks> ok, thanks pitti :)
<robru> pitti, are you saying I should be using email.mime *instead* of libsoup, or just to use it within the test to ensure that the message is valid? (I'm not familiar with email.mime)
<pitti> robru: right, the latter
<robru> pitti, ok, I'll look at that in a bit. but first: breakfast!
<robru> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> robru: i. e. feed raw_sent into an email.mime parser, and have it dissect the result
<robru> pitti, thanks again, brb ;-)
<pitti> robru: i. e. email.message_from_bytes(raw_sent) should do that
 * duflu crashes X again.
 * didrocks crashes in gnome-keyring launchpad call
<didrocks> (was transient though)
<dholbach> hello my friends
<didrocks> re dholbach ;)
<dholbach> if I have a window which does not turn up in unity or in alt-tab - which information should I include in a bug report and what should I file it on?
<dholbach> or maybe there's a bug for it already
<dholbach> it's a tomboy note - last night it still worked and showed up, today it doesn't
<didrocks> dholbach: it's a known issue, but debug info can help, please head on #ubuntu-unity and ping trevhino/andyrock about it
<didrocks> none of them are online unfortunately right now :/
<dholbach> yeah, I just noticed :)
<dholbach> slackers
 * dholbach shakes head in disbelief
<didrocks> heh :)
<seb128> dholbach, lut
<dholbach> salut mon ami :)
<seb128> dholbach, comment Ã§a va Ã  Berlin ?
<dholbach> Ã§a va - et toi? qu'est-ce qui se passe lÃ -bas?
<mlankhorst> oui, langue package officiele c'est francois?
<seb128> mlankhorst, oui, on parle franÃ§ais ici ;-)
<seb128> dholbach, ca va, mon ubuflu commence Ã  partir
<seb128> dholbach, content de voir qu'Obama a gagnÃ© Ã©galement
<mlankhorst> mon franÃ§ais est terrible!
<dholbach> mlankhorst, c'Ã©tait comme Ã§a  depuis 2005 ou quelque-chose comme ca :)
<dholbach> seb128, trÃ¨s bien!
<desrt> yawn
<larsu> desrt, morning :)
<desrt> another night, another election
<desrt> larsu: good morning
<desrt> too bad about NC, eh?
<larsu> ha, yeah. kenvandine will be saaaaaad
 * desrt is a bit sad too
<desrt> my favourite entertainment source is gone
<larsu> :)
<larsu> I'm happy that we'll get actual news again in a couple of days
<ogra_> seb128, was the onscreen keyboard blueprint dropped or did you just not get to it yet ?
 * ogra_ tries to assemble a list of workitems for himself
<seb128> ogra_, I didn't draft it yet, will do that today
<seb128> ogra_, it's https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-onscreen-keyboard-review
<ogra_> yep, thats what i'm looking at, just wanted to know if its still planned
<seb128> ogra_, it is
<ogra_> thx
<mvo> seb128: I guess you don't mind if I upload a new glade to raring - make gtkbuttons actually be usable again ;)
<seb128> mvo, please do, sorry I forgot that you mentioned that during UDS ... is that broken in quantal as well?
<mvo> seb128: yes
<mvo> seb128: no worries
<mvo> seb128: I can SRU it there too if you want
<seb128> mvo, please
<seb128> mvo, danke
<mvo> seb128: or maybe we can simply copy it?
<seb128> mvo, copy? pocket copies you mean? no, SRU team said they only do that before the new serie opens, they want stuff rebuilt with the new toolchain now
<mvo> seb128: ok
<seb128> ogra_, ok, drafter, pending approval from didrocks
<seb128> drafted*
<seb128> mvo, danke, I will do the SRU verification for you ;-)
<mvo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glade/+bug/1075957 fwiw
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1075957 in glade (Ubuntu Quantal) "3.14.0 can not edit a GtkButton label" [Medium,In progress]
<seb128> mvo, it's 2012, I can't believe people still use buttons btw :p
<ogra_> seb128, merci !
 * seb128 hides
<seb128> ogra_, de rien ;-)
<mlankhorst> mvo: apt sru? :D
<seb128> Laney, when you are done drafting specs please set "definition" to "pending approval"
<seb128> Laney, it seems like you drafter the patch burden and gst ones but they are still on "new"
<mvo> mlankhorst: indeed
<mvo> seb128: uploaded to quantal-proposed
<seb128> mvo, \o/
<seb128> mvo, danke
<mvo> yw
<mlankhorst> mvo: I mean I want to do the apt sru for bug 1062503 but my only involvement with it was that I reported the bug and tested the fix, I can't really do a fair analysis for a fix I didn't write. :-)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062503 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "apt fails to install libglapi-mesa-lts-quantal correctly on switching x stacks" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062503
<mvo> mlankhorst: yeah, I knew what you mean :) I will do the merge in a bit, just want to finish my current task
<mlankhorst> sure np
<Laney> seb128: yeah I already did that for the gstreamer one
<Laney> not sure if the description should be more verbose though
<jbicha> Sweetshark: congrats http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/announce/msg00135.html
<Sweetshark> jbicha: heh, thanks.
<Sweetshark> jbicha: The ESC (containing me) has appointed three devs (including me) to decide the certification of devs (including me) on behalf of the Board of Directors (including me).
<Sweetshark> ETOOMANYJOBS
<jbicha> Sweetshark: well that was nice of you to give yourself a certification and another job :)
<Sweetshark> Others show beautiful ladies their collection of stamps. I show my collection of LibreOffice titles ...
<ogra_> you have them in an album ?
<Sweetshark> ogra_: the ladies?
<ogra_> lol
 * kenvandine rofl
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, how are you?
<kenvandine> happy obama won, but bummed NC was red :/
<seb128> kenvandine, yeah, luckily for you NC was not needed for him to win
<kenvandine> i do wonder how it is that florida consistently has trouble getting results
<jcastro_> old people
<desrt> kenvandine: sorry dude
<desrt> just wasn't in the cards
<kenvandine> NC was less than 100K away from being blue :)
<desrt> kenvandine: i reckon you have a good crack at it 4 years from now
<seb128> the "all or nothing" system is a bit weird
<desrt> seb128: the situation is far worse in canada, i assure you :)
<seb128> desrt, Canada doing something worse than the US, I don't believe you :p
<kenvandine> haha
<desrt> take the US system
<seb128> desrt, it would seem logical to have the number of seats being proportional to the results
<desrt> except instead of basing it on states you base it on arbitrarily-drawn-up ridings
<desrt> and then throw in 5 parties instead of 2
<desrt> but still winner-takes-all
<kenvandine> oh, they draw different boundaries for election results?
<didrocks> seb128: hem, we don't really have that as well for the parliament (for some arguably good reasons)
<desrt> good way to get a PM who 2/3 of the country voted against
<desrt> kenvandine: explaining the canadian system to an american: our PM is selected in the same way that you select your speaker of the house
<desrt> kenvandine: except there are 5 parties in our house
<kenvandine> ah
<desrt> and we call it "parliament"
<seb128> didrocks, well, we do elect our dÃ©putÃ©s directly though
<didrocks> seb128: that's true, but it doesn't really represent the overall % of votes of the nation
<seb128> desrt, it just feel weird that having 90% of 51% of the votes makes no difference
<didrocks> something similar happen on another scale in the US :)
<seb128> didrocks, right
<desrt> seb128: strictly speaking, having 90% or 40% doesn't matter
<desrt> since it's possible to have 40% and still win
<seb128> well, you should get a stronger lead if you have a stronger part of the population following you
<seb128> it's weird that 1% difference in one state can make the whole election goes one way or another
<seb128> where it might not be even a representative picture of the country's opinion
<kenvandine> i think it would make more sense to use the popular vote these days
<kenvandine> the reasons for the electorial college are outdated now
<seb128> yeah
<larsu> this might fix it... http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
<kenvandine> of course then the media can't capitalize on their forecasts as much :)
<larsu> it won't ever fix the 2-party system, though
<kenvandine> it sucks that some people's vote really doesn't matter at all
<kenvandine> in the current system
<seb128> jbicha, hey, do you know if there is anything blocking the cogl update or if we could sync 1.12 from debian?
<didrocks> larsu: even with 2 rounds, most of the 2 main parties in France try to advocate the "useful vote" for the 1st round.
<larsu> didrocks, instead of a strategic vote?
<didrocks> larsu: "useful vote" is strategic, like "ensure this candidate (which almost surely will be in the second round) has a lot of votes/support even in the first round"
<didrocks> it's killing the small parties
<larsu> didrocks, :(
 * larsu never understood the french system :)
<seb128> larsu, we got an election where the extrem right kicked out the left from the second round by beating them in the first round of the election
<didrocks> yeah, in 2002
<seb128> larsu, and people don't want that to happen again
<didrocks> so it's a little bit of a traumatism
<seb128> larsu, so they try to "make sure that the left/right" made to the second round
<seb128> make it*
<larsu> hm, that makes sense ...
<didrocks> larsu: they were a lot of small left parties in 2002, that's why this situation happened
<seb128> larsu, it's like "if you vote green your vote might be the one which makes the left to not be there on the second turn and let us between screwed to pick right or extrem right"
<seb128> between->being
<didrocks> to be on the second turn, you need at least 20% of voters
<larsu> that sucks
<didrocks> which means mainly 2 partiesâ¦
 * didrocks hugs kiki
<didrocks> best regexp tool ever!
<seb128> kenvandine, versions says we have outdated signon-keyring-extension &  gnome-control-center-signon & unity-firefox-extension
<seb128> kenvandine, just pointing it in case you didn't notice those during UDS or something
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i know :)
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> ignore me then ;-)
<kenvandine> on my todo list for this week
<kenvandine> i am glad they are on the versions page :-D
<didrocks> seb128: stop doing that! I just wrote "ken" as my next variable name :p
<seb128> lol
<kenvandine> hehe
<didrocks> kenvandine: once you will inline packaging, that will never happen again ;)
<kenvandine> indeed
<seb128> didrocks, oh, I'm sure I will found stuff to ping Ken about ... like empathy ;-)
<kenvandine> didrocks, i am going to do one as an example and let robru do the rest :)
<seb128> it's also on the red list
<didrocks> kenvandine: mterry almost have all his inline packaging merge, I think you can follow the theme after that!
<didrocks> seb128: empathy yeah ;)
<didrocks> kenvandine: cool! you can take what mterry did with NOCONFIGURE=1 dh_autoreconf ./autogen.sh
<seb128> didrocks, or try to talk to cassidy about adopting your ps workflow :p
<kenvandine> didrocks, most of mine already do that :)
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, sure sureâ¦ he will be delighted :p
<seb128> didrocks, I'm sure he will love it ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: can we put the packaging in his empathy branch?
<didrocks> you still have your git gnome commit access, as pitti
<kenvandine> i figure this will be a good way to get robru familiar with the webapps/accounts packages
<seb128> didrocks, he's not coming to JDLL right? :p
<didrocks> kenvandine: excellent! ensure to try in a chroot so that you don't forget any build-dep, like gnome-common :)
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<didrocks> seb128: no, he isn't, so you can push that silently :)
<seb128> ;-)
<kenvandine> well, i've added that all over the place already
<kenvandine> i gave up on keeping those trim ages ago
<didrocks> \o/
<kenvandine> twice a week having to tweak it last cycle... easier to just leave the bloat in
<didrocks> heh, indeed
<kenvandine> didrocks, mind if i do an SRU for dee?
<kenvandine> i have a fix from mhr3 i need
<didrocks> kenvandine: I don't mind at all, but SRU depending on another SRU, is it policy compliant?
<didrocks> kenvandine: or does you gwibber doesn't regress without the SRU?
<kenvandine> not for gwibber :)
<kenvandine> but for friends
<kenvandine> bug in SharedModel
<desrt> can someone remind me of the magical incantation for replacing the appmenu indicator?
<kenvandine> friends won't be in quantal of course, but this might be causing problems we haven't noticed yet
<kenvandine> and it is safe
<didrocks> kenvandine: good to me then, please do ;)
<desrt> or unity-panel-service
<didrocks> Mirv: FYI ^^
<desrt> larsu, charles: ?
 * kenvandine files the bug :)
<larsu> desrt, export INDICATOR_SERVICE_REPLACE_MODE=1
<desrt> on u-p-s?
<larsu> no, on the indicator-service
<desrt> isn't indicator-appmenu in u-p-s?
<larsu> half/half ;)
<desrt> it's a .so file....
<larsu> yeah, only the hud parts are in a service
<desrt> so how do i restart unity-panel-service?
<larsu> killall
<larsu> (it restarts automatically)
<desrt> i want to see the stderr in my terminal
<larsu> mv the binary, then start it from your terminal
<desrt> and/or valgrind
<desrt> cool.
<larsu> (yes, that's stupid, but it's the only way around the self-restarting)
 * desrt winces
<larsu> there's a tool that loads a single indicator .so which we usually use for debugging, but it doesn't work for indicator-appmenu
<larsu> because appmenu depends on some other window having focus
<larsu> bbiab
<Laney> gah
<Laney> new firefox broke pentadactyl
 * Laney 's brain turns to mush
<kenvandine> didrocks, Mirv: we are going to wait on the dee SRU, just do it along with the next set of unity SRUs
<didrocks> kenvandine: ah excellent
<kenvandine> i fixed it in raring already, which is all i really need for right now
<didrocks> ok, good :)
<ritz> seb128 hi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1003898
<ubot2> ritz: Error: launchpad bug 1003898 not found
<seb128> ritz, hey
<ritz> does this look fine for ubuntu-sponsor ?
<seb128> ritz, what source is the patch against? there is no seen-db.c in indicator-messages
<ritz> this is against precise
<seb128> ritz, no, what source package
<seb128> e.g what component
<ritz> indicator-messages
<seb128> oh
<ritz>  indicator-messages (Ubuntu)
<seb128> is there any chance you could put a merge request up for review there?
<ritz> I have added this to the lp
<ritz> sounds good. I am kindda stuck with trying to add a patch to this package
<ritz> I suck a lot at deb
<ritz> will try this bit
<ritz> seb128, thanks. Will have one by tomorrow , hopefully :)
<seb128> ritz, can you put up a merge request against https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-messages/trunk.0.6 ?
<ritz> will do :)
<ritz> seb128, I could update the code in place, or do I need to write debian/patches/patch_name.patch ?
<seb128> ritz, for the merge request?
<seb128> bzr branch lp:indicator-messages/0.3
<seb128> cd indicator-messages
<seb128> edit the file
<seb128> bzr commit
<seb128> bzr push lp:~ritz/indicator-messages/lp-1003898 (or use a public for reference)
<seb128> then propose the branch for merging
<seb128> it will be on the webpage for the branch
<seb128> you can bzr lp-open to go the page
<ritz> sweet, thank you :)
<seb128> yw
<jbicha> desrt: ok, here's a hack for getting rid of the extra Ubuntu panels from GNOME; we can have 2 .desktop's and use OnlyShowIn to hide the panels from System Settings but not from the Overview when running GNOME
<seb128> jbicha, what do you mean "extra Ubuntu panels"?
<seb128> jbicha, what is "overview"? the g-s dash? what's the point to have panels there if they are not used in g-c-c?
<jbicha> seb128: Backup, Privacy, Software Sources, Ubuntu One, etc.
<jbicha> oh I guess that doesn't quite work either :(
<seb128> no that doesn't
<seb128> you can't call a panel that is not listed in the g-c-c overview
<seb128> if it's not listed it doesn't exist for g-c-c and there is no way to load it
<seb128> we had an hack to make that work for the goa panel in precise but it was a code patch and hackish
<larsu> seb128, `gnome-control-center <panel>` doesn't work for the hidden ones?
<seb128> larsu, no
<seb128> larsu, the model used by the iconview is the same model they use for other things like call panels
<larsu> seb128, makes sense, the blacklisting in desktop files probably works on the .so level
<seb128> larsu, yeah, they need an entry in the model to set the title, icon etc
<seb128> if you mask the .desktop you loose those items
<seb128> items->infos
 * larsu nods
<jbicha> seb128: well it works for Software Sources & Ubuntu One since those aren't real panels
<seb128> jbicha, right
<seb128> hacks on hacks ;-)
<seb128> jbicha, doesn't work for deja-up, privacy, etc though
<seb128> jbicha, do you really have users complaining about having backups in system settings?
<jbicha> seb128: it would be neat if the library could do that filtering
<didrocks> james_w: yeah, do you have a minute for a lame launchpadlib lame question?
<jbicha> seb128: I think Backup isn't really objectionable since that really should be part of core GNOME
<jbicha> Software Sources is ugly since it shouldn't be a separate popup
<seb128> jbicha, it seems like to me that you could keep deja-dup, and filter out software-source & ubuntuone & privacy
<seb128> the privacy stuff is not useful under gnome-shell anyway, they don't really use zg
<seb128> so you don't even need it in the overview
<jbicha> Privacy & Ubuntu One are a little annoying because they make the Personal section too big, but...it sounds like GNOME really wants to add their own Privacy & Sharing panels for 3.8 (as 2 separate panels)
<ritz> seb128 thanks. done.
<seb128> jbicha, btw did you see my cogl question earlier?
<seb128> jbicha, oh, and thanks for the rhythmbox udpate ;-)
<jbicha> seb128: oh I think I was disconnected then, the only thing blocking cogl for me was that I no longer have upload rights to have done it myself
<james_w> didrocks, for you? of course
<seb128> ritz, thanks, maybe you could also open a public bug so we can use that for the SRU tracking?
<ritz> sure
<seb128> jbicha, so I can sync it?
<seb128> ritz, thanks
<jbicha> seb128: yes please
<didrocks> james_w: \o/ so, I want to open bugs against a particular ubuntu serie for a source package. I was thinking using bug.addTask(target=source_package)
<seb128> jbicha, great, then we need to follow up with rebuilds ... should clutter stack be updated as well in the same run?
<seb128> jbicha, things will not move out of proposed until the rebuilds are done
<didrocks> james_w: however, I only find one kind of bug_task for source packages: source_package = lp.distributions['ubuntu'].getSourcePackage(name = "unity") for instance
<didrocks> which isn't tied to any serie, like quantal, preciseâ¦
<james_w> didrocks, maybe it's addNomination that you want?
<james_w> didrocks, I'm just guessing though, I've not done this myself
<didrocks> james_w: addNomination take a bug_task as well, isn't it?
<didrocks> bug_target I meant
<james_w> Nominate a bug for an IDistroSeries or IProductSeries
<jbicha> it looks like nothing really depends on activity-log-manager-control-center except ubuntu-desktop so (and you can quote me): privacy's not worth worrying about
<didrocks> I didn't find a way to have bug_target for a source package in one serie
<jbicha> seb128: it looks like we're already on the latest stable clutter
<james_w> didrocks, so I would think it would take lp.distributions['ubuntu'].getSeries(name_or_version=whatever)
<james_w> didrocks, and nominate for all source packages
<seb128> jbicha, versions says 1.12.0 against 1.12.2
<seb128> jbicha, 1.3.2 vs 1.4 for clutter-gtk
<james_w> didrocks, alternatively, maybe getSourcePackage(name=whatever) on distro_series will work as a bug_target for addTask?
<didrocks> james_w: ok, so I need to addTask first for the source package, and then addNomination
<james_w> didrocks, that's my guess, based on how the web UI works, but I don't know
<didrocks> hum, let me try that, didn't see getSourcePackage on distro_series :)
<james_w> didrocks, bdmurray might know
<jbicha> seb128: ok, yes then :)
<didrocks> james_w: your last suggestion beautifully worked \o/ https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/123
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 123 in Launchpad itself "There's no direct way to see the project info when translating it" [Medium,Fix released]
<didrocks> thanks a lot ;)
<seb128> jbicha, cogl synced, I will start doing some rebuilds once the binaries are there and NEWed
<james_w> didrocks, woo
<james_w> didrocks, looks a bit odd because unity (Ubuntu) is grayed out
<james_w> didrocks, so I think this is a state that you can't get in to with the web ui, do beware of bugs
<didrocks> james_w: yeah, because there is no "current serie" task
<james_w> or maybe all this changed since I last did it
<didrocks> james_w: yeah, I'll look into that, anyway, thanks a bunch, will experiment now :)
<james_w> great
<GunnarHj> Laney: Hi Iain!
<GunnarHj> Laney: Saw that you are piloting... I have a few items in the sponsorship queue, and the most urgent are the MP + SRUs at http://pad.lv/875435, since they affect quite a few Asian users. It's really the SRUs that are interesting, but I suppose we should do it in the right order. Do you have time to take a look? The MP is reviewed and approved.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 875435 in OEM Priority Project precise "iBus indicator does not show on the panel" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> GunnarHj: I'm signing off now I'm afraid
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, then I try someone else.
<Laney> if you don't get a bite from one of the others I'll look tomorrow for you though
<GunnarHj> Laney: Great, good to know!
 * Laney goes away
<Laney> goodnight!
<GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Hi Mark!
<GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Saw that you are piloting... I have a few items in the sponsorship queue, and the most urgent are the MP + SRUs at http://pad.lv/875435, since they affect quite a few Asian users. It's really the SRUs that are interesting, but I suppose we should do it in the right order. Do you have time to take a look? The MP is reviewed and approved.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 875435 in OEM Priority Project precise "iBus indicator does not show on the panel" [Medium,In progress]
<mdeslaur> GunnarHj: I'm done for the day, and still have a couple of things pending...could you possibly ask someone else doing patch piloting?
<mdeslaur> @pilot out
<mdeslaur> GunnarHj: sorry about that
<GunnarHj> mdeslaur: Sure, you were the second one I asked. ;-)  One more to try...  No problem, of course.
<mdeslaur> GunnarHj: darn, sorry about that...bad timing :(
<chrisccoulson> hah, "Get horny using tablets" - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/577251/comments/12
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 577251 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Problem Loading Page" [Undecided,Expired]
<chrisccoulson> is this why everyone got a nexus 7 at UDS?
<attente> heh, they're magical tablets :)
<desrt> wait
<desrt> tablets?
<desrt> oh boy you got me!!
<desrt> Laney: hey.  can you SRU the make with the webkit argument length fix to precise as well?
<bryceh> TheMuso, around by chance?  Valve contacted me about an alsa issue on i386
<bryceh> TheMuso, I'll fwd the email.
<TheMuso> bryceh: Yeah I am around.
<bryceh> TheMuso, they say 12.04 has 1.0.24 as the i386 package, but 1.0.25 for amd64.  but I can't confirm that; looks like there is a i386 package for 1.0.25?
<TheMuso> bryceh: Do you mean alsa-lib, or alsa-utils?
<TheMuso> Yeah, we have 1.0.25 accross x86 in precise. If there was an FTBF I would have been on it ages ago...
<TheMuso> Sounds like their mirror is horribly out of date.
<TheMuso> Which ever mirror they use.
<bryceh> TheMuso, they were ambiguous on what package it is
<bryceh> could it be ia32-libs?
<TheMuso> They shouldn't be using ia32-libs... Alsa is all multi-arch now.
<TheMuso> Has been since oneirif IIRC.
<TheMuso> oneiric even.
<bryceh> hmm
<TheMuso> And whilst I think the internal kernel version may be alsa 1.0.24, that should be the same for both 32-bit and 64-bit systems.
 * TheMuso fires up a precise VM to check.
<TheMuso> bryceh: Perhaps if you bounced the email to me instead of forwarding, I could group reply and query a few things.
<TheMuso> That way if it were bounced, I could keep threading in tact for all concerned.
<bryceh> ok
<TheMuso> Thanks.
<bryceh> bounced
<TheMuso> Thanks, will follow up and keep you in the loop.
<bryceh> thanks TheMuso
<TheMuso> np
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-08
<mspencer> When I'm in the dash and press Alt+F2, the dash goes away but the command lens doesn't come up. However, when I'm in the dash and press Alt, the HUD comes up. Is the dash going away a feature or a bug?
<mspencer> This has been reported as LP #1019457, I just wanted to check that this a bug and not a feature before I work on fixing it.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1019457 in unity (Ubuntu) "The Dash closes when trying to switch to the Command lens (Alt+F2)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019457
<bschaefer> mspencer, it is a bug
<bschaefer> if it wasn't a bug, super+a should close the dash, but it switches to the applications lens
<TheMuso> p/c
<robert_ancell> RAOF, do you know much about udev tagging?
<robert_ancell> in particular around video devices
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Not particularly; what are you after?
<robert_ancell> RAOF, just trying to understand how display devices are tagged for multi-seat
<robert_ancell> RAOF, and trying to browse the current tags on my devices
<RAOF> I believe that's up to some special udev rules; I don't believe we allocate things to seats at the moment.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, but where are the current tags stored?
<robert_ancell> are there any tags by default?
<RAOF> In the udev db? You can get at that with âmdadm info --export-dbâ
<RAOF> As I understand it, all udev tags are added by udev rules; there's nothing built in.
<robert_ancell> yeah, that's as I understand it too
<robert_ancell> RAOF, "mdadm - manage MD devices aka Linux Software RAID" - is that right?
<RAOF> Ahem. Sorry, *udevadm*
<robert_ancell> ah, that's what I wanted. I was struggling to work out how to use udevadm
<robert_ancell> RAOF, one last question - is there a standard way of telling what is a "video" device?
<RAOF> Not as far as I know; you could probably check for the SUBSYSTEM=graphics, though.
<pitti> Good morning
<sarnold> pitti: isn't it still unreasonably early for you? :)
<pitti> hehe
<pitti> 16866 martin    20   0 1172m 439m  45m D 185,2 11,7   7:53.46 firefox
<pitti> eek, firefox taking 2 CPUs without doing anything?
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<pitti> err
<pitti> bonjour didrocks !
<didrocks> :-)
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti!
 * pitti still didn't get used to the weird French punctuation
<didrocks> how are you?
<pitti> mir gehts gut, danke!
<didrocks> pitti: c'est facile, Ã  chaque fois qu'il y a 2 Ã©lÃ©ments, comme ; : ! tu rajoutes une espace devant
<didrocks> , n'a qu'un Ã©lement -> pas d'espace
<pitti> like, you put a space in front of all punctuation except "." and "," or so?
<didrocks> yeah, mostly
<pitti> so, that's the part I need to get used to, as it looks weird in my eyes
<didrocks> s/weird/the right way/ :-)
<pitti> noooon!
<chrisccoulson> good morning desktoppers
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, you around?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti. i'm not too bad thanks, how are you?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: "not too bad" -> not ubuflu, I hope?
<chrisccoulson> oh, no, i had that at the start of UDS ;)
<chrisccoulson> just a bit tired
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: Yo!
<chrisccoulson> hi RAOF. did you say last week at UDS that you had a machine with ATI graphics (using the proprietary driver)?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh, small question, do you know if there is an option to disable the popup appearing when you press n to go to next unread message if there is none but in the next folder?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'm not sure about that. i don't think i've ever seen it because i never get my unread count to zero ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: heh :p ok, I'll dig in the options
<larsu> good morning :)
<didrocks> hey larsu! how are you?
<larsu> didrocks, feel good from the gym :) And you?
<didrocks> larsu: I'm fine, thanks! just finished the morning catching up (2h45), and now, can start really working :)
<larsu> didrocks, dude, you get up too early :P
<didrocks> larsu: won't beat pitti though :)
<larsu> noone beats the pitti
<pitti> hey larsu
<larsu> good morning pitti, how are you?
<pitti> well, you all beat me with staying longer in the evening :)
<pitti> larsu: quite fine, thanks! almost lunch break :-D
<larsu> lol
<didrocks> pitti: heh, in some way :)
<pitti> nah, I actually have breakfast around 8 or so, a civil time
<pitti> can't eat at 6 yet
 * didrocks dig and find https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+junk/hudson-infrastructure.dx will be useful again!
<didrocks> heh, same here. Getting my breakfast while reading blogs at 8:30
 * duflu wonders if "breakfast" is another word for first pot of coffee
<pitti> to me, it's "one pot of cereals"
<didrocks> duflu: mostly, yeah ;)
<chrisccoulson> ooh, i've not made any coffee yet
<RAOF> chrisccoulson: I do, but it's currently in the process of getting a ubiquity bug filed from it because ubiquity doesn't see its windows partition.
<xnox> RAOF: is that using raring or quantal? with or without windows recovery partitions? Full disk layout would be nice to have.
<RAOF> xnox: I last did it with Quantal; I'll check with raring soon. What logs are you after?
<Laney> desrt: sure. do you have a failure case there?
<xnox> RAOF: no, don't use raring yet. I am after `ubuntu-bug ubiquity` which will pull in syslog, /var/log/partman & /var/log/installer/*
<RAOF> xnox: Cool. Will do sometime in the next couple of days.
<chrisccoulson> RAOF, when you get some time, could you please try a firefox nightly on it and tell me if you see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798157 ?
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 798157 in Widget: Gtk "awesome bar dropdown background color is missing and looks wrong" [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, PPA's all out of space again
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i'm good thanks, and you?
<seb128> good as well, thank you
<dpm> hey all, good morning
<dpm> are there any online accounts experts around? I'm getting this message upon login, and I'm not sure what to do: http://ubuntuone.com/7ErPvE13rCjoEdeigijaZC - basically, it opens up the old online accounts dialog when I click on "Open online accounts..."
<seb128> dpm, hey, how are you?
<seb128> dpm, seems like an evolution issue...
<dpm> morning seb128, I'm good, thanks :) you?
<seb128> dpm, good as well, thanks ;-)
<dpm> any ideas on how to find out what it could be? I haven't got evo installed here, so I'm guessing it might be something to do with e-d-s?
<seb128> dpm, yeah, the gnome-online-account stuff are in eds
<seb128> dpm, try asking on irc.gimp.org #evolution?
<dpm> gosh, I haven't been in that channel for years and years. This will bring back some memories ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<conscioususer> desrt: ping
<larsu> conscioususer, desrt is probably not awake yet :)
<conscioususer> larsu: that's fine, you are :P
<larsu> true :)
<conscioususer> larsu: had one more gapplication question, do you have some mins?
<larsu> conscioususer, sure
<conscioususer> larsu: according to what desrt said to me yesterday, I'm supposed to diassamble the command line and activate actions on the gtkapp as appropriate
<conscioususer> larsu: Example 19 in developer.gnome.org/gio/unstable/GApplication.html seems to do that, but looks a little weird
<conscioususer> larsu: it seems to assume I only want to consider command-line parameters if the app is already running, which is not always the case
<larsu> conscioususer, right, that example is indeed a bit strange
<conscioususer> larsu: what should I do if want a parameter to be considered also when the app starts?
<larsu> conscioususer, exactly the same thing, but only exit the process when g_application_register returns false (which means that there's already  an instance running)
<larsu> you need to set up your actions before that, though :)
<larsu> but activating actions works the same in the local process as it does over the bus
<conscioususer> larsu: but that means I'll be calling register() regardless of circumstances, right?
<conscioususer> larsu: this feels a little redundant, as run() starts by calling register()
<conscioususer> larsu: no errors happen, but still it feels a little dirty :P
<larsu> conscioususer, I agree. And now I'm trying to think of a reason why you need to call register at all :)
<larsu> oh, you need a bus connection to the main instance before you can activate actions
<conscioususer> larsu: yeah, I learned this through an error message :)
<larsu> heh
<conscioususer> larsu: well, register *does* seem to be prepared for being called multiple times...
<larsu> conscioususer, yeah, but you need to call it at least once before you can find out if you're a launcher or the primary instance
<conscioususer> larsu: yes
<conscioususer> larsu: I'm remembering now, I think that's how I ended up using activate instead of run
<conscioususer> larsu: I thought calling run was redundant wrt to register
<conscioususer> larsu: but only calling activate does not make the main loop start running, so I put Gtk.main in there... yeah, that's how the snowball grew
<larsu> conscioususer, ah, makes sense :)
<conscioususer> larsu: so I guess calling run even if you already called register is the right way
<larsu> conscioususer, GApplication really does too much, it should have been two classes really
<larsu> conscioususer, yep, that's what I'd advise you to do
<conscioususer> larsu: right, so I will :)
<conscioususer> larsu: thanks! ready to go back to coding :)
<larsu> conscioususer, another - maybe a slightly cleaner - route would be to subclass GtkApplication and override local_command_line, which gives you total control over registration and startup / activate
<larsu> (but then you *have to* call startup and activate yourself)
<conscioususer> larsu: ah yes, this seems possible
 * larsu hopes not to confuse conscioususer too much after finding a solution :)
<conscioususer> larsu: in fact, this *does* seem to make sense rather than feeling like a workaround... the docs say to override local_command_line if you intend to handle the command line locally... which is exactly what I'm trying to do here
<conscioususer> larsu: um, sorta
<larsu> conscioususer, yeah, I got the idea when reading that piece of the docs :)
<larsu> conscioususer, don't know how easy it is to subclass gobjects in python
<larsu> but you're the expert there I guess ;)
<conscioususer> larsu: straightforward, actually
<conscioususer> larsu: unless it's different for this case somehow, I'll only need to add a method called do_local_command_line in my class
<conscioususer> larsu: hopefully it's not different
<larsu> conscioususer, should be the same as for all gobject classes ... introspection ftw!
<conscioususer> larsu: the overriding works as expected, but I'm getting some weird decoding errors
<didrocks> hey pitti, can you pump my build score? ;) I need it to make some experiment (not the i386 yet, I'm interested in the "in between state"): https://launchpad.net/~didrocks/+archive/ppa/+build/3966038
<larsu> conscioususer, decoding of what?
<conscioususer> larsu: good question :P
<larsu> haha
<conscioususer> larsu: will paste a minimal example, hold on
<larsu> thanks
<conscioususer> larsu: http://www.pasteshare.co.uk/p/3tx/
<larsu> conscioususer, TypeError: super() takes at least 1 argument (0 given)
<conscioususer> try python 3 :)
<larsu> conscioususer, oh! thanks
 * larsu is a python-newb
<conscioususer> larsu: I forgot a "return True" at the end of do_local_command_line
<conscioususer> larsu: but the error happens anyway
<conscioususer> larsu: I suspect this is not properly introspected
<larsu> conscioususer, good thing we have pitti in this channel :)
<larsu> pitti, know anything about unicode decode errors when trying to subclass GtkApplication from python3?
<larsu> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xe0 in position 0: invalid continuation byte
<larsu> but I get all kinds of different unicode errors, not only this one
<conscioususer> larsu: in the C api, the first argument receives a char ***arguments and an int *exit_status... the fact that the introspected version seems to also expect two parameters instead of moving exit_status to a return value should raise a red flag
<pitti> didrocks: bumped
<larsu> conscioususer, yes, but there's already a return value - or does pygi return multiple values in these cases?
<didrocks> pitti: thanks a lot! :)
<pitti> larsu: no, I haven't heard about UnicodeDecodeErrors in that case
<conscioususer> larsu: it does return multiple values
<larsu> pitti, problem happens only when overriding GApplicationClass::local_command_line, which takes a gchar ***, maybe pygi can't cope with that?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, presumably missing (out) annotation
<pitti> ***arguments is probably (inout)
<larsu> ah, let me check
<pitti> yeah, that doesn't look healthy
<pitti>           <parameter name="arguments" transfer-ownership="none">
<pitti>             <type name="utf8" c:type="gchar***"/>
<pitti>           </parameter>
<pitti> this is bogus
<larsu> yep
<larsu> conscioususer, man, your stumbling on bugs everywhere!
<pitti> is this inout, or out?
<larsu> pitti, inout
<pitti> so it probably needs something like (inout) (array zero-terminated=1) (element-type=utf8)
<conscioususer> larsu: the price I'm paying for trying the latest stuff, I guess :P
<pitti> so if you want to file a bug about that on bugzilla.gnome.org, please subscribe me
<larsu> pitti, hm, all annotations seem to be missing for GApplication vfuncs
<larsu> pitti, I'll subscribe you, thanks!
<pitti> yeah, you might be the first to try through GI :(
<larsu> well, someone has to start
<larsu> ;)
<conscioususer> so I'm supposing this goes too deep to allow a workaround?
<conscioususer> guess i'll go back to using register(), then run()
<pitti> there is no workaround, except for not using the API at all
<larsu> conscioususer, yep :( we need to fix the annotations in gio
<pitti> but annotation fixes are backportable to stables, and GNOME 3.6.2 is due next week
<larsu> really? Awesome
<pitti> I already fixed a bunch recently which I'm looking forward to getting released
<conscioususer> awesome
<conscioususer> indeed
<conscioususer> pitti: btw, can you confirm me one thing? is GLib.threads_init still needed in PyGI apps?
<pitti> conscioususer: yes, for pygobject/python
<pitti> glib itself doesn't need it any more
<pitti> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686914
<ubot2> Gnome bug 686914 in gobject "pygobject still requires GObject.threads_init()" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> if someone has a bright idea how to detect/call it automatically, I'm all ears
<conscioususer> pitti: yeah, that's why I asked... I read in the docs g_thread_init was deprecated, but then got errors when I removed from my PyGI code
<conscioususer> pitti: nice to have an official confirmation :)
<larsu> conscioususer, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687912
<ubot2> Gnome bug 687912 in gapplication "GApplication vfuncs are missing introspection annotations" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<larsu> pitti, ^^ (I've already subscribed you)
<pitti> thanks
<conscioususer> nice :)
<xnox> what's the progress on shipping only gtk2 on the cd?
<xnox> libreoffice & nm the biggest culprits?
<ogra_> do you mean gtk3 ?
<xnox> ogra_: yeah =)
<ogra_> :)
<xnox> what's the progress on shipping only _gtk3_ on the cd?
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I got the information I needed, can you bump the score on https://launchpad.net/~didrocks/+archive/ppa/+build/3966040 now please?
<pitti> didrocks: fini
<didrocks> pitti: merci :)
<desrt> Laney: ya.  webkit builds.
<Laney> desrt: ah, yeah, same case then. are you trying to build 1.10 on precise or do you now see it with 1.8?
<Laney> if you have the error to hand a bug with it in would be appreciated
<desrt> 1.11.1
<Laney> k
<desrt> it's the same "argument list too long" message when trying to link
<Laney> yeah I just don't have it
<Laney> would be useful for the SRU paperwork
<Laney> never mind, can acquire it
<desrt> fwiw, i just installed the quantal 'make' package on my precise system and everything is good now
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1017125/comments/50 <- boost patch available, can you take that up?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1017125 in boost1.49 (Ubuntu) "boost::unordered_multimap<>::erase(iterator, iterator) broken on quantal" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, I can, what about pinging doko just to have somebody who has a clue about that stack to comment?
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: doko is subscribed to the bug ... but prolly drowning in blueprints/UDS-postprocessing.
<seb128> Sweetshark, try IRC ping on #ubuntu-devel?
<Sweetshark> seb128: just did on #distro
<seb128> Sweetshark, danke
<Sweetshark> seb128: de rien ;)
<jbicha> seb128: could you sync clutter-gtk from experimental?
<seb128> jbicha, sure, clutter-gtk is not in the desktop set? we should probably get it there
<jbicha> seb128: neither is cogl, clutter-1.0, or clutter-gst; they were in precise though
<jbicha> and if we're going to add stuff: indicator-session, system-config-printer, yelp-tools, yelp-xsl
<seb128> hum
<seb128> jbicha, not sure about indicator-session, the unity set is different from the desktop one
<seb128> but the other ones should be in the desktop set
<seb128> it's annoying that we don't have a good way to deal with sets
<seb128> out of "ping Laney or cjwatson"
<Laney> not me, colin runs that script
<Laney> the auto sets are pretty opaque to me I'm afraid :(
<pitti> desrt: oh, seems your WI to add gcov support to g-common is retroactively done :) http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-common/commit/?id=493d55921
<desrt> free workitem checkoff!
<seb128> jbicha, can you ping cjwatson about those?
<Laney> I was told last time that email is preferred for this
<jbicha> you mean the other indicators shouldn't be in the desktop set?
<desrt> pitti: btw: i've seen absolutely zero fallout from the new interface restrictions
<pitti> desrt: great to hear
<desrt> looks like pygobject was really the only one....
<seb128> jbicha, they are? so yeah feel free to ask for indicator-session ... there were talks,dholbach suggested that we should do an indicators set so ted,lars,charles, etc could have upload rights for those
<seb128> jbicha, we don't want to get them uploads to the full desktop though
<pitti> desrt: that was the bit which allows you to drop half of the gtype.c code?
<desrt> pitti: a good chunk of it
<seb128> jbicha, so we might get indicators off in their own set some day
<pitti> desrt: great
<desrt> pitti: there is this bizarre state machine in gtype.c to track "how initialised" an object is
<desrt> in order that we can know what we need to do when adding an interface to it past a certain point
<desrt> we can drop that now
<pitti> desrt: hehe -- if (get_initialization() >= 0.63482) { ... } ?
<desrt> which gets us one step closer to my final goal: dropping the recursive mutex
<desrt> pitti: http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/tree/gobject/gtype.c#n207
<desrt> there is a lot of bookkeeping required to handle that enum in a threadsafe way
<desrt> particularly since you can't take the "just hold a big lock" approach when calling back into user callbacks (like class_init)
<desrt> eventually the initstate and refcount will be replaced with a single "is initialised" boolean
<ricotz> pitti, desrt, hi, will the current stable pygobject branch (and quantal) get patch to work with this interface restriction?
<pitti> ricotz: no
<pitti> this is not really an easy patch
<ricotz> pitti, ok
<pitti> ricotz: well, at least not right now; I'd like to see it out in the wild for some time
<desrt> pitti: it looked easy to me
<desrt> :)
<jbicha> seb128: I'm going to merge mutter from Debian; they bumped the library name so I'll have to rebuild gnome-shell again
<pitti> well, not the kind of easy I'd lightheartedly throw into a stable branch
<desrt> but ya... a bit premature for an SRU until we know for sure that we have no new issues
<pitti> 706 tests is one thing; beasts like software-center or sugar are another story..
<seb128> jbicha, ok, can you do both today? that's the remaining bits for cogl it seems
<pitti> we've been bitten by too many corner cases
<ricotz> pitti, alright, i will need to do some patching then, i guess
<desrt> crikey
<desrt> my jhbuild statusboard this morning is a sea of green!
<pitti> ricotz: why?
<desrt> ....until you scroll down
<ricotz> pitti, for the (crazy) git snapshots ;)
<pitti> ricotz: I'll land the new pygobject in raring as soon as we'll get the new glib
<pitti> ricotz: but glib+pygobject master branches also work well
<seb128> pitti, that's likely to be a while ... is that an issue?
<ricotz> pitti, yeah, i am uploading to the quantal ppa pocket too
<pitti> seb128: not for me; I'm trying to keep pygobject 3.7.x working on glib 2.34
<larsu> desrt, using gactionmap from vala is a bit of a pain - vala reports errors for interface methods that aren't implemented (query vs get_*)
<seb128> pitti, ok
 * desrt notes that it might be interesting to try to vendorpatch the class init thing into the old raring package just to get the increased exposure, without waiting for glib
<pitti> ricotz: so you want to put a new glib there, but not a new pygobject?
<desrt> larsu: query/get are not gactionmap methods
<desrt> larsu: i guess you mean gactiongroup, though?
<pitti> desrt: well, glib 2.34.2 will get out next week; I think that's good enough
<larsu> desrt, sorry, gactiongroup
<desrt> pitti: seb won't take it
<ricotz> pitti, currently i reverted the "interface" patch, and yeah, i want to avoid putting more packages in there
<pitti> desrt: I just need the fixed annotations
<desrt> larsu: ya..... i did _query because _get_* was a pain
<desrt> larsu: oops for vala users, i guess
<larsu> desrt, I'm just ranting anyway, feel free to ignore ;)
<pitti> desrt: why wouldn't we take 2.34.2?
<desrt> pitti: seb wants to wait until after i'm back from vacation
<pitti> desrt: I thought that was for 2.35
<desrt> oh.  right.
<desrt> sorry.
<pitti> *phew* :)
 * desrt wonders why you care
<desrt> did you backport the poll boxing?
<ricotz> pitti, or new pygobject is backwards compat with the quantal builds, which would be nice
<pitti> desrt: no, for the fixed annotations in GIOChannel and the like
<desrt> ah
<pitti> desrt: pygobject 3.7.x doesn't work with glib <= 2.34.2 any more
<pitti> err, <= 2.34.1
<desrt> progress!
<pitti> I threw out two metric tons of static bindings
<pitti> and fixed glib instead
<desrt> i'm a bit confused by how all of that works
<desrt> because we don't have go-i in glib
<desrt> is it the case that we have to fix glib, install it, run go-i against that, and then pygobject is happy?
<pitti> desrt: well, annotaitons in glib -> g-i reads them from glib -> new 1.34.2 g-i release -> profit!
<pitti> desrt: x-actly
<desrt> clear as mud
<ricotz> hehe
<pitti> a pain to update/test, but yay circular build depends otherwise
<ricotz> glib should build the introspection itself
<pitti> ricotz: but how?
<pitti> well, g-i could be merged into glib
<desrt> a year or so from now i'm looking forward to a very very nasty argument with colin on the topic of merging g-i
<ricotz> just consume the g-i into it
<pitti> but with two separate projects that wouldn't work
<ricotz> ;)
<desrt> he already tried to introduce the circular build-depend once
<desrt> it's one of those situations in which we have a suboptimal status quo but nobody is sure about the proper way forward
 * ricotz meant to merge the whole g-i source in glib
<desrt> doesn't help that i keep hearing talk about incompatible changes to the file format
<desrt> ricotz: ya.  me too.
<desrt> i bet that comes up in a year or so
<ricotz> seems just logical
<ricotz> to happen
<pitti> $ make check-code-coverage
<pitti> make: *** No rule to make target `check-code-coverage'.  Stop.
<pitti> ok, not quite as easy as gnome-common makes me believe
<pitti> oh, @GNOME_CODE_COVERAGE_RULES@
<desrt> me loves those macros
<desrt> "@GSETTIGS_RULES@"
<desrt> "yes... i'm rather fond of it myself... but no need to yell..."
<pitti> wow
<pitti> file:///home/martin/upstream/pygobject/pygobject-3.7.2-coverage/index.html
<pitti> â© it's a kind of maaa-giiiic! âª â«
<desrt> pitti: the part that it prints out that URL has always seemed to me like it should have a *ding!* sound
<pitti> desrt: or a moan or a cheer depending on the percentage
 * pitti wonders if that is really working for python -- how can my tests have just 72% coverage?
<pitti> (I mean coverage for the _test_ code, not the tested code)
<desrt> hahahaha
<pitti> ah, it's only testing the .c files even
<pitti> but anyway, c'est bon; je l'aime!
<mspencer> When I'm in the dash and press Alt+F2, the dash goes away but the command lens doesn't come up. However, when I'm in the dash and press Alt, the HUD comes up. Is the dash going away correct or is it a bug?
<mspencer> This has been reported as LP #1019457, I just wanted to check that this is incorrect and not supposed to work this way before I work on fixing it.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1019457 in unity (Ubuntu) "The Dash closes when trying to switch to the Command lens (Alt+F2)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1019457
<jbicha> seb128: can you accept mutter? and then I need to push gnome-shell one more time
<Laney> bah, PPA wait time is quite annoying lately
<chrisccoulson> Laney, PPA's running out of space is even more annoying ;)
<Laney> I suppose that happens after you've already waited several hours for a build
<Laney> so yeah ...
<dobey> jbicha: what is the difference between the -gnome .desktop file you're proposing to add to ubuntuone-control-panel, and the one that's already there, exactly? Only difference I see is that one has OnlyShowIn=GNOME, and you added NotShowIn=GNOME to the existing one; other than that, they appear to be exactly the same
<seb128> jbicha, done
<jbicha> dobey: oops, I pushed an update so it does the right thing now
<dobey> jbicha: can you perhaps also rename the new file to ubuntuone-control-panel-qt-gnome.desktop.in? There's no need for it to be called "ubuntuone-installer" really; the existing file is only that way to avoid breaking existing config with unity and such.
<jbicha> attente: are you running quantal or raring?
<attente> jbicha: quantal
<jbicha> ok, at some point, we're going to need the universal access/disable scrollbar patch redone for gnome-control-center 3.6 since GNOME has overhauled the Universal Access panel
<attente> sure
<jbicha> but you'd need gnome-settings-daemon 3.6 and probably ibus 1.4.99 to build g-c-c 3.6; you can find those in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa
<jbicha> GNOME's dropped all but one HighContrast theme
<seb128> jbicha, well that patch is trivial
<seb128> jbicha, it's just setting a gsettings key when setting an a11y theme
<jbicha> seb128: oh ok
<desrt> pitti: hey
<desrt> pitti: pygobject-python2 has a depend on really really new autoconf
<desrt> like, one that's not even in precise
<desrt> pitti: it also appears to depend on lcov with the default arguments to ./configure now...
<desrt> pitti: dropping the autoconf version dependency from .69 to .68 doesn't appear to break anything here
<Laney> i wish webkit supported parallel building :(
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't support that?
<chrisccoulson> man, that sucks!
<Laney> :-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1064962/comments/100 <- meh
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064962 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Confirmed]
<desrt> jbicha: i think that g-c-c a11y scrollbar patch should drop
<desrt> i talked about it with Cimi
<desrt> the correct place for that highcontrast logic is in overlay scrollbars themselves
<jbicha> desrt: ok
<xnox-n7> hmm I am running raring and I cannot login into neither unity 3d nor into gnome-fallback sessions....
<xnox-n7> anybody knows what's up?
<stgraber> xnox-n7: usual suspects, look for the permissions of ~/.Xauthority and if they look fine, then look at ~/.xsession_errors
<stgraber> (I had Xauthority change ownership a few times on my systems, never tracked the source but it gives you something matching your symptoms)
<xnox-n7> stgraber: well currently the permissions are 600 & errors has "can't register GNU Pth with Libgcrypt"
<xnox-n7> nothing spectacular =/
<xnox-n7> lightdm cycles back to itself upon login =(
<xnox-n7> created a fresh account getting loads of errors from compiz
<stgraber> xnox-n7: your description seems to match http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12344405 but I wouldn't recommend using that fix ;)
<xnox-n7> lol =)
<xnox-n7> cd
<xnox-n7> wrong window
<xnox-n7> i smell kernel regress. since my dual-screen monitors are not detected, opengl fails to load....
<stgraber> xnox-n7: well, raring's kernel is still quantal's isn't it?
<stgraber> at least it's on my machine, last updated this morning
<xnox-n7> stgraber: yeah... I am now pointing fingers at cogl
<stgraber> xnox-n7: when trying the fallback session, did you choose Gnome Classic or Gnome Fallback? the former will still use compiz so could fail because of some opengl weirdness
<xnox-n7> stgraber: do you see any SRUs about unity/deps that are not in raring?
<xnox-n7> stgraber: i've tried both with & without effects. as they are known from the lightdm selection menu
<stgraber> the report was clean yesterday, slangasek copied everything that was missing
 * xnox-n7 is trying proposed =)
<stgraber> cogl seems to still be stuck in -proposed so that can't be it
<xnox-n7> *sigh* so much for stable all the time.
<stgraber> I just applied the updates on my laptop and am not seeing anything that looks dangerous... so pretty unsure what broke your machine...
<xnox-n7> I rebooted
<stgraber> did you try a good old "startx"? it might get you more information on what's failing at session open time
<xnox-n7> it was fine until that.
<xnox-n7> Loading extension GLX'n xinit: connection to X server lost
<xnox-n7> s/'n/\n/
<xnox-n7> GLX error: Can not get required symbols
<stgraber> oh, fun. Are you using intel or some weird binary drivers?
<xnox-n7> intel / sandybridge
<stgraber> could be some permission problem with /dev/dri/card0
<xnox-n7> interesting let me try that
<TheMuso> But symbols to me at least means ABI breakage...
<xnox-n7> i hate sandybridge
<xnox-n7> bug 1076787
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076787 in xorg (Ubuntu) "GLX error: Can not get required symbols" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076787
 * xnox-n7 will have a cup of tea and go to sleep
<xnox-n7> i guess I have some progress as I can login into no-effects session with a new user account.
<xnox-n7> but not with my normal one
<xnox-n7> so permissions?!
<xnox-n7> *sigh*
<Sarvatt> xnox-n7: sudo apt-get purge fglrx
<xnox-n7> stgraber: moving .gnupg out the way solved it.....
<xnox-n7> wtf!
<xnox-n7> use-agent option in gpg.conf
<xnox-n7> brakes my session.
<TheMuso> Awesome.
<xnox-n7> Awesome, sure. but *why* ?
<TheMuso> Oh I don't know, I just have a tendency to use sarcasm when such things occur. :)
<xnox> TheMuso: yeah.....
<xnox> =))))
<xnox> thanks stgraber & TheMuso for moral support and finding the solution
<Sarvatt> xnox: wonder how long your session has been busted regardless because you have fglrx install making it so you can't use accelerated 3D on that intel :P
<xnox> hmmm... let me purge that and check if I get 3D accel back =))))
<xnox> Sarvatt: oh.... I caused that!
 * xnox needs to upload a revert, I think....
<xnox> to pyopencl
<xnox> Sarvatt: so what should pyopencl depend on?
<Sarvatt> sounds like fglrx needs to be split up so you don't switch to fglrx libGL instead of mesa's installing that but I'm not sure what's going on there
<xnox> Sarvatt: purged & rebooted I have 3D acceleration again!
 * xnox it's times like this when I want to start smoking again....
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-09
<BigWhale> Good morning.
<pitti> desrt: ah, will lower the dep, and also check in autogen.sh if lcov is installed
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> desrt: fixed both
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey didrocks
<TheMuso> didrocks:
<didrocks> hey TheMuso! How are you?
<TheMuso> didrocks: Quick question before I dart off for EOW, what list should I email if I want to discuss something of a technical nature to do with Unity? This will be a cross-DE message to several lists...
<TheMuso> didrocks: Not too bad thanks, yourself?
<didrocks> TheMuso: I'm good, but tired (waited until 1AM to get some package built in a ppa for experimenting some script, and launchpad was telling at 9PM "15 minutes remaining before starting buildingâ¦"). so short night (it's 7:30 now)
<didrocks> TheMuso: I think, it should be the unity-devel ML
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<TheMuso> And that sucks for not a lot of sleep.
<didrocks> TheMuso: https://launchpad.net/~unity-dev
<didrocks> well, it's Friday, will be better this week-end :)
<TheMuso> Yep indeed, thanks again.
<didrocks> I just wish launchpad was more accurate in its estimation of time before building :)
<didrocks> yw!
<TheMuso> Yeah I've been annoyed by that too.
<rodrigo_> mvo, any chance you know why I get an 'invalid protocol of the server' in quantal when using AddVendorKeyFromServer's aptdaemon method?
<mvo> rodrigo_: uh, no - that sounds odd, could you paste/mail me the command/code you used?
<rodrigo_> mvo, the same code works on precise
<rodrigo_> ret = g_dbus_proxy_call_sync (pmu->priv->apt_proxy, "AddVendorKeyFromKeyserver",
<rodrigo_> 					g_variant_new ("(ss)", "0x3b22ab97af1cdfa9", "keyserver.ubuntu.com"),
<rodrigo_> 					G_DBUS_CALL_FLAGS_NONE,
<rodrigo_> 					-1,
<rodrigo_> 					NULL,
<rodrigo_> 					&error);
<rodrigo_> googling about the error got me to this: https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubuntu/quantal/aptdaemon/py3/+merge/109981
<rodrigo_> not sure though how that fixes it, still looking...
<mightyiam> since empathy now recommends gnome-contacts, is that on purpose?
<mightyiam> good mooorniiinnnnnng
<didrocks> hey pitti! Do you know if multiarch is handled for typelib? like ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/girepository-1.0/Dee-1.0.typelib
<seb128> hey desktopers
<mightyiam> hey seb128
<seb128> hey mightyiam, didrocks, pitti
<didrocks> hey seb128
<pitti> didrocks: no, I don't think it is right now
<pitti> hey seb128, Ã§a va?
<seb128> pitti, lut, ouais, et toi ?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, confirming, thanks :)
<pitti> seb128: trÃ©s bien, merci!
<seb128> pitti, do you have any plan to make g-i look in both multi-arch and standard dir for typelib?
<seb128> or would it be harder than just teach those to look in both locations?
<pitti> seb128: the request didn't come up so far; no, it doesn't sound very hard
<pitti> it already supports multiple directories with $GI_TYPELIB_PATH
<pitti> so it's mostly some autoconf glue
<seb128> pitti, want a bug asking for it? on what component?
<pitti> seb128: I'm wondering if we need that upstream (then glib/introspection, which is g-i)
<pitti> or whether it's a distro change only, in which case it should be a Debian bug
<pitti> but I guess we want to change all gir1.2-* packages in Debian eventually to use the multiarch path
<pitti> and fall back to the non-multiarch one
<pitti> so I think, Debian bug for now
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: asking in #introspection where other distros place their's
<mightyiam> i can't log in in raring. lightdm. get thrown back to lightdm. bug #1076777
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076777 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Get thrown back to lightdm right after trying to log in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1076777
<mightyiam> i'm quite sure it didn't upload the relevant log files because i filed against lightdm. can you please tell me which logs to add? or which package to set apport loose upon?
<seb128> pitti, danke
<seb128> mightyiam, try to log in, get bounced back to lightdm, ctrl-alt-f1, log in, copy .xsession-errors
<Laney> moning
<seb128> it should have the infos
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> we broke logging in? :-)
<pitti> WFM
<Laney> "I swear I typed my password"
<Laney> xnox was reporting it last night too
<seb128> Laney, you are having issues as well?
 * Laney reads scrollback
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> weird
<seb128> what desktop do you use?
<Laney> unity
<seb128> what mightyiam described seems like "session doesn't start/exit"
<seb128> xsession-errors should have details
<pitti> seb128: ok, distro-side only for now
<Laney> no, that's just got something about gpg-agent
<Laney> let me check Xorg.0.log
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1076787
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1076787 in pyopencl (Ubuntu Raring) "GLX error: Can not get required symbols" [High,Fix released]
<Laney> so it did turn out to be about gpg-agent
<Laney> wtf ...
<Laney> let me try that
<Laney> yeah, works
<seb128> Laney, what did you change?
<Laney> mv .gnupg .gnupg-old
<seb128> wth?
<seb128> mightyiam, ^ you might want to try that
<Laney> gpg-agent[2807]: Fatal: can't register GNU Pth with Libgcrypt: Not supported
<Laney> that's the error in xsession-errors
<seb128> it's stupid that exit the session
<seb128> yet another Xsession script issue I guess, those are so hackish
<Laney> looks like libgcrypt11 indeed did get an upload on the 7th
<seb128> gpg-agent is not installed by default right?
<mightyiam> that's that, seb128 Laney
<Laney> no i dont think so
<mightyiam> sigh i have my desktop back
<Laney> that's a bad thing? :-)
 * seb128 pets gnome-keyring
<seb128> not having that issue with my gpg agent :p
<Laney> reverting libgcrypt11 works
<Laney> now where's my pitchfork?
<mightyiam> it was a relief sigh
<mightyiam> i thought those were legitimate
<pitti> seb128: "pats" :)
<xclaesse> seb128, sometimes xchat-gnome keeps its "1" notification for unread msg, even after I've read it
<seb128> pitti, doh :p
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<xclaesse> seb128, is that known?
<pitti> seb128: de rien :)
<xclaesse> the "1" bubble on the launcher icon I mean
<seb128> xclaesse, it might, does it happen when you focus xchat yourself (not using the indicator) and the unread is on the active channel?
<seb128> xclaesse, do you have a corresponding entry in the messaging menu?
<xclaesse> seb128, could be that, I did not pay attention
<seb128> xclaesse, does it go away if you select the entry in the indicator?
<xclaesse> seb128, yes
<xclaesse> hmm, actually could be an highlighted msg from my bip backlog
<seb128> xclaesse, ok, yes, known issue in xchat-indicator (the xchat plugin), I didn't have time to debug it
<xclaesse> and xchat does not always set the correct icon on that chan
 * xclaesse will try to be sure of the steps next time it happens :)
<xclaesse> thanks
<didrocks> mvo: hey, I still have precise in my private-ppa.launchpad.net_commercial-ppa* files, if I change them to quantal, would my credential would still be fine?
<Sweetshark> jcastro_: ping?
<mvo> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> mvo: sweetness! thanks :)
<pitti> hm, today's totem update seems bad
<pitti> I just see a white screen when playing videos now
<pitti> so much for entertainment during lunch break :)
<seb128> pitti, what version do you have?
<Sweetshark> seb128: could you help out at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1064962/comments/100 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064962 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Confirmed]
<Sweetshark> seb128: its nonsense to forwardport LibreOffice 3.6 to raring, when we ship 3.7/4.0 there.
<seb128> Sweetshark, I will talk to the SRU guys
<Sweetshark> seb128: thx
<pitti> seb128: 3.4.3-0ubuntu6
<seb128> Sweetshark, pinged them on #ubuntu-devel, it's a bit early for the US guys though
<seb128> pitti, ok, so new cogl/clutter issue I guess... *fun*
<seb128> pitti, the only recent change to totem was to rebuild with the new cogl soname
<ricotz> Sweetshark, hi, btw, i wouldnt call uploading 3.6.3 to raring non-sense!
 * didrocks understood how the archive object is behaving in launchpad, phew! :)
<seb128> didrocks, blog about it so the knowledge is shared! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I'm good! how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: well, I need to find time and not to turn all my workarounds as rant :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks
<pitti> seb128: well, I saw BBT 6x07 in exchange :)
<pitti> didrocks: ^ awesome again, btw!
<seb128> pitti, ;-)
<seb128> pitti, hum, "again"? they dropped the awesomeness at some point?
<pitti> seb128: no, more like "as always"
<seb128> cool
<didrocks> pitti: this is for tonight :)
<ricotz> hey desktopers
<ricotz> seb128, hi, do you mind taking a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsecret/+bug/1073269
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1073269 in libsecret (Ubuntu) "Make libsecret actually multiarch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> ricotz, hey, I've been letting it to somebody who understands multiarch enough to have an opinion
<ricotz> hmm, i see :\
<ricotz> this is a real issue though
<Laney> ricotz: I'll look
<Laney> is it in Debian yet?
<ricotz> Laney, thanks!
<ricotz> Laney, i pushed it in the svn as 0.11-2
<ricotz> but it isnt uploaded yet
<Laney> ok
<Laney> looks like the package there is missing Vcs headers fyi
<Laney> I don't think you should have Pre-Depended on the -dev package which isn't MA enabled
<desrt> pitti: thanks :D
<desrt> pitti: my jhbuild is grateful
<ricotz> Laney, ok, if you are fine with it please upload it
<Laney> # Disable tests as they don't work for some reason
<Laney> classy
<seb128> Laney, is that libsecret?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> yeah, if somebody want to figure why you are welcome
<Laney> they are at least run
<pitti> Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/unity-firefox-extension/ubuntu
<pitti> this is waaaay behind
<pitti> didrocks, kenvandine: ^ using UDD for this now?
<pitti> I'm currently looking at the failed autopkgtests
<kenvandine> pitti, yes
<kenvandine> but that is all going to change :)
<pitti> ah, I'll drop Vcs-Bzr then
<kenvandine> moving the packaging into trunk
<kenvandine> thx
<pitti> Most recent Ubuntu version: 2.3.5-0ubuntu1
<pitti> Packaging branch version: 2.3.2-0ubuntu1
<pitti> Packaging branch status: OUT-OF-DATE
<pitti> meh
<pitti> so, bye-bye bzr
<kenvandine> thx pitti
<kenvandine> for some reason i stopped getting those messages on checkout
<kenvandine> i wonder why
<pitti> there, passing now \o/
 * pitti chalks up the 8th test fixed today
<seb128_> pitti, do you plan to sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pango1.0/+bug/1073637 (you commented on it)?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1073637 in pango1.0 (Ubuntu) "libpango1.0-dev needs a compile/link/run test" [Undecided,In progress]
<pitti> seb128_: I asked Rafal to forward the patches to Debian
<seb128_> ok
<pitti> seb128_: but I'm patch piloting next Monday and will get to them then
<pitti> (and forward them myself if he didn't yet)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> actually, for pango in particualr I can just commit them, it's pkg-gnome
<desrt> pitti: when you're doing your testing stuff are you spinning up a fresh vm each time or a pbuilder or what?
<pitti> desrt: I'm using prepare-testbed to build a pristine VM (about once every one or two days), and then run-adt-test, which will do the "temporary overlay" thing
<desrt> makes sense
<pitti> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~auto-package-testing-dev/auto-package-testing/trunk/view/head:/doc/USAGE.md
<pitti> desrt: ^ the docs
<pitti> so it's "prepare-testbed amd64" to build a raring amd64 VM
<pitti> and "run-adt-test -k apport" to run current apport autopkgtest, but keep (-k) the VM around afterwards for debugging
<pitti> then you can ssh in and poke around
<pitti> but have all the dependencies etc. installed
<desrt> i'm considering that maybe i want to start doing this for my jhbuilding
<desrt> do you copy git mirrors in or do you just do a fresh checkout each time?
<pitti> desrt: err, this is for autopkgtest
<pitti> desrt: are you now talking jhbuild?
<desrt> ah.  i see.
<desrt> i thought you were building out of upstream git for your tests
<desrt> you're just following the packages?
<pitti> desrt: BTW, j'aime code-coverage :)
<desrt> :)
<pitti> desrt: I committed a huge set of missing tests to pygobject this morning, which uncovered a handful of bugs
<desrt> test coverage is sexy
<pitti> desrt: if you mean that, the jhbuild machines don't currently use the plumbing stuff from git (like OSTree)
<pitti> just what's in our packages
<desrt> i see
<pitti> at some point we want to marry these, though
<desrt> but they're still jhbuilding, right?
<pitti> stuff like polkit is in jhbuild
<pitti> but e. g. systemd, udisks etc. isn't
<desrt> ya... that's been causing me all kinds of trouble this morning
<desrt> polkit needs setuid helpers... which jhbuild is not so good about installing properly
<desrt> even after fixing them, though, something's not working right
<desrt> in any case i have a reasonably decent setup going on, so i'm happy
<desrt> and more confident to continue with my massive amounts of glib breaking :)
<desrt> (since i will be able to see the effect pretty quick)
<pitti> desrt: do you have a good way of running a full gnome session (with shell etc.) out of jhbuild?
<desrt> pitti: i have a way
<desrt> i don't know if i'd yet call it a "good way" :)
<pitti> selecting "GNOME (jhbuild)" in gdm/lightdm would be awesome
<jbicha> yeah, udisks not being in jhbuild is annoying; it makes it more annoying to test gnome-disk-utility for instance
<desrt> ya.  that's whati do.
<pitti> well, I guess one could still run the fallback session in xephyr
<desrt> i think it's called "jhbuild GNOME 3.8 2011-11-09" though :)
<desrt> what's nice is that i build on precise and run on quantal
<desrt> and that seems to be OK
<mpt> chrisccoulson, hi, did you think further about making globalmenu-extension part of the ubuntu-menu-bar project group?
<chrisccoulson> mpt, oh, i thought i'd replied and said that was fine?
<mpt> chrisccoulson, yes, but I noticed you hadn't done it yet :-)
<chrisccoulson> ah, yes :)
<chrisccoulson> mpt, ok, done now
<mpt> chrisccoulson, thank you :-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: ping?
<seb128> Sweetshark, pong
<Sweetshark> seb128: for the boost SRU (which is in raring right now), should I do a minimal diff against the quantal version, or can we take the raring version as is to quantal?
<seb128> Sweetshark, the minimal diff is better
<Sweetshark> there are IIRC two other minor fixes to it in raring.
<Sweetshark> l
<Sweetshark> k
<mpt> seb128, hey, I was just trying to test <https://code.launchpad.net/~mdspencer/ubuntu/raring/software-properties/fix-for-1058059/+merge/133130> like you did, but unlike you I see no change at all. I'm using "./software-properties-gtk" inside the branch directory. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?
<mpt> seb128, I get the same even when giving an absolute path, too.
<seb128> mpt, sudo cp data/gtkbuilder/main.ui /usr/share/software-properties/gtkbuilder/main.ui
<seb128> mpt, I guess
<seb128> mpt, sudo apt-get install --reinstall software-properties-gtk then to go back to stock Ubuntu
<seb128> mpt, the change is in the gtkbuilder file and I don't think it will load the "from source" version
<mpt> fun
<seb128> indeed...
<mpt> thanks seb128
<seb128> mpt, yw, does that work?
<mpt> sure does
<seb128> good
<seb128> mpt, http://ubuntuone.com/1at4c2WX5nRLSuBhAHv8l9
<seb128> mpt, that's the french version, it might look different from the english one due to the long label at the bottom
<seb128> can't try in C locale there
 * seb128 looks at mvo
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/softwareproperties/AptAuth.py", line 77, in list
<seb128>     for line in p:
<seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python3.2/encodings/ascii.py", line 26, in decode
<seb128>     return codecs.ascii_decode(input, self.errors)[0]
<seb128> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc5 in position 1782: ordinal not in range(128)
<seb128>  
<seb128> (hate unicode)
<didrocks> (+1)
<mpt> seb128, he's updated the branch since then.
<seb128> mpt, oh, ok
<seb128> mpt, let me check
<seb128> mpt, thanks for the review/approval
<Sweetshark> you all stop using launchpad right now! Since one week I try to update my bprints and everytime I just get timeouts on my homepage
<seb128> mpt, that dialog is weird looking :-(
<mpt> seb128, in what way?
<seb128> mpt, http://ubuntuone.com/4OKw8F6SPeD9k5p1hREvNC
<seb128> mpt, lot of space on the right, lot of space on the left then
<seb128> it's like unaligned blocks
<mpt> hmm
<seb128> mpt, you think it's an improvement this way over unaligned combos and stuff filling the screen?
<seb128> having the space taken was looking less "weird" to me
<seb128> but it's maybe a matter of taste
<mpt> seb128, I was just about to say, it would have been just as weird before, just the weirdness scattered over more places :-)
<mpt> I hadn't realized that string is so long in French
<seb128> mpt, that's why I gave you the first screenshot btw (for the long french string)
<seb128> well I guess it look better in english
<seb128> or locales with don't have a long string to push things this way
<mpt> seb128, hm, that seems a bit over-long, though. The English is "Notify me of a new Ubuntu version:", and the French looks like "Notify me when a new version of Ubuntu is available:", right?
<seb128> right
<seb128> be "notify of something" doesn't really work in french
<seb128> we say "notify me when $something happen"
<seb128> be->but
<mpt> ok
<seb128> the variants I can think about are all about the same length
<seb128> well I guess we would use a "PrÃ©venir des nouvelles versions d'Ubuntu"
<seb128> that sounds a bit weird though
<seb128> mpt, I will upload the change and take the french string to the french translators
<seb128> mpt, thanks ;-)
<seb128> mpt, I guess one way to fix the weirdness would also to replace the checkboxes by the combo that is in the design document ;-)
<mpt> seb128, that would get rid of one of the two gaps, at least
<qengho> Attention developers: When I put the mouse cursor on the Wifi signal strenghth and scroll-wheel up, it should make internet better.  kthx.
<Sweetshark> anyone here able to nominate 1017125 for quantal? thx.
<Sweetshark> disregard that. already happened
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-10
<mightyiam> mmm GRAIL yummy...
<qengho> Oh, tracker, why do you hate me?
<qengho> 2GB "meta.db"? sounds reasonable.
<qengho> 168% of CPU? ah, alright.
<qengho> No time to debug! SIGSTOP for now.
<njin> Hallo, the problem is:
<njin> Last week I opened Disks and it advice me that my disk will fail in the next 24 hrs, but onscreen nothing was advicing me of this problem.
<njin> So I want to know wich is the prog. that manage this thing and if it is again implemented in Quantal (on brainstorming a reply tells that it was working in Precise)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-11-11
<m4n1sh> desrt: ping
<desrt> m4n1sh: hi
<m4n1sh> desrt: I was trying to debug a vala app and getting this error. AFAIK you are the gtk dev
<m4n1sh> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1351733/
<m4n1sh> gactionmuxer.c: No such file or directory.
<desrt> m4n1sh: lars wrote that code :)
<m4n1sh> is gtk in ubuntu not compiled with gactionmuxer.c?
<desrt>   actions = g_action_group_list_actions (group->group);
<desrt>   for (i = 0; actions[i]; i++)
<desrt> i bet group->group is NULL
<desrt> and list_actions() is hitting a critical
<desrt> m4n1sh: is this when the app is shutting down?
<m4n1sh> I am writing vala code and not even going through all that C code. So it has to to do with vala compiler
<m4n1sh> when starting itself
<desrt> hm
<m4n1sh> gdb shows this message
<desrt> m4n1sh: can you give me the .vala?
<m4n1sh> well, it is a big app. activity-log-manager (the privacy thing in Ubuntu)
<m4n1sh> desrt: I will just give you the branch url
<desrt> i assume you don't hit the error while compiling
<m4n1sh> no, I don't
<m4n1sh> only when running
<desrt> right
<desrt> it's not a vala issue
<desrt> pretty sure...
<m4n1sh> desrt: lp:~manishsinha/activity-log-manager/run-12-10
<m4n1sh> after make, run it with ./src/activity-log-manager
<desrt> k
<m4n1sh> then it segfaults
<desrt> m4n1sh: why do you have Makefile.in in version control?
<m4n1sh> that is what even I am wondering. autotools and related things is something which I still can't get my head around
<m4n1sh> desrt: build system is something I have been kinda scared of. It is still broken, but I have temporarily commented out broken parts
<m4n1sh> desrt: brb in 15 mins. lunch
<m4n1sh> desrt: any progress? I am totally stuck up with this. Even after commenting out a lot of lines in the source code, nothing happens
<desrt> m4n1sh: i'm afraid i don't see the issue
<m4n1sh> desrt: this line is worrying me
<m4n1sh> 645	/build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.6.0/./gtk/gactionmuxer.c: No such file or directory.
<m4n1sh> how come gactionmuxer.c isn't found?
<desrt> m4n1sh: because you don't have the gtk sources installed
<m4n1sh> desrt: which package is that?
<desrt> it's the gtk+3.0 source package
<desrt> so like...
<desrt> (activity-log-manager:9266): GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_application_list_actions: assertion `application->priv->is_registered' failed
<desrt> don't ignore criticals
<desrt> they provide you with valuable information
<desrt> and really... you have _a lot_ of criticals coming before the segfault
<desrt> you're using GtkApplication in an extremely weird way
<m4n1sh> really? this was my first big Gtk App
<desrt> take a look at how some other apps are using gtkapplication
<m4n1sh> so I won't be surprised if it isn't done well
<desrt> bloatpad is a good example
<m4n1sh> yeah. will do
<desrt> basically, you should not be calling gtk_init() and gtk_main() from main()
<desrt> now should you be creating any windows
<desrt> *nor
<desrt> main() should only create a Gtk.Application subclass and call .run() on it
<desrt> like, one line:
<desrt> int main (string[] args) { return new MyApplication ().run (args); }
<m4n1sh> yeah. Now I understand this thing
<desrt> MyApplication() should have a virtual function override called 'activate'
<desrt> it should be what creates the first window
 * m4n1sh notes everything down
<desrt> m4n1sh: baobab is a fairly well-written modern user of GtkApplication in vala
 * seiflotfy is a fan of desrt
<seiflotfy> :D
 * desrt blushes
<desrt> m4n1sh: http://git.gnome.org/browse/baobab/tree/src/main.vala
<desrt> m4n1sh: and http://git.gnome.org/browse/baobab/tree/src/baobab-application.vala
<m4n1sh> I think I should get back to the board and fix the whole architecture of alm
<m4n1sh> seiflotfy: right?
<m4n1sh> mpt has a mockup of it
<seiflotfy> yes sir
<desrt> here's the 3rd most important file: http://git.gnome.org/browse/baobab/tree/src/baobab-window.vala
<desrt> you would do well to copy this pattern
<desrt> namespace
<desrt> Whatever {
<desrt>   class Application : Gtk.Application { ... }
<desrt>   class Window : Gtk.ApplicationWindow { ... }
<desrt> }
<desrt> int main (string[] args) { return new Whatever.Application ().run (args); }
<desrt> where 'Whatever' is the namespace you like for your app
<m4n1sh> desrt: I think you gave a perfect reference to using vala
<m4n1sh> I will keep it in mind
<m4n1sh> desrt: thanks a lot :)
<desrt> no problem
<desrt> copying is always the best way
<m4n1sh> :)
<desrt> you just need to make sure you're copying from the right places :)
<m4n1sh> yes
<desrt> warp10: hey
<warp10> desrt: hey, welcome aboard ;)
<desrt> warp10: i have something you might find useful
<desrt> warp10: http://imgur.com/UkTcn
<warp10> desrt: uh... quite scary
<desrt> no gimp... i swear it.
<desrt> anyway... i was noticing that the team lacks an image
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-04
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> desrt: so it seems I found a hack for bug 1184262, but for fixing it properly we shouldn't set up the timeout at the beginning of shim_method_call() but at its end
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1184262 in systemd-shim (Ubuntu) "[logind] times out too early, stuck in PrepareForSleep, causing network and other services to not resume" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1184262
<pitti> desrt: or somehow disable the timeout while a method call is pending
<mlankhorst> morning!
<sil2100> Morning!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128!
<seb128> didrocks, lut ;-)
<didrocks> ;)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks et seb128, comment alles-vous ? avons-vous eu un bon voyage retour ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, mais fatiguÃ©! bon voyage de retour, mais pas rÃ©ussi Ã  vraiment dormir :/
<didrocks> pitti: et toi? tout va bien?
<seb128> pitti, salut, Ã§a va bien merci! J'ai dormis 4-5h dans l'avion, et hier soir de 22h Ã  ce matin 9h30. Et toi, le W.E Ã©tait bien ?
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: oui, nous avons eu un grand week-end; lots of hiking through the Alps, some massages, sauna every day, great food, lots of time for reading and sleeping
<didrocks> sounds excellent and relaxing! :)
<seb128> nice!
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: did you enjoy the week, was it usefuL?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, happy about it. I guess good progress and more technical deep dive in particular issues
 * didrocks also has high hope for the CI system evolution
<seb128> pitti, I enjoyed it a lot, nice to see everyone, and it was quite useful for touch settings and for desktop LTS planning/discussing what we are going to do
<mlankhorst> everyone back yet?
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: in 13.10 is it me or is FF not using the right theme?
<xnox> seb128: re "Alt+Shift" shortcuts, do you know why each time I boot ubiquity I get a bubble notification from iBus "Default shortcut is now Super+Space" or something? is some-kind of migration running that pops that up?
<xnox> seb128: and if the default changed to Super-Space, is bug #1242572 in ubiquity or something that provides ubuntu-desktop settings defaults?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1242572 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Ubiquity sets Alt+Shift shortcut for layout switching, while installed system uses Super+Space" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242572
<xnox> (do mind ubiquity is the same & i don't know what Ubuntu Gnome wants in this respect: e.g. more like GNOME default or more like across-Ubuntu default.
<seb128> xnox, I think the notification is a migration thing yes, I need to look a bit more into that
<seb128> xnox, not sure where "alt-shift" in ubiquity comes from, I guess from default xorg options or something
<xnox> seb128: no, ubiquity hard-codes that.
<xnox> seb128: but it should match the /everything-else/ on the desktop i think.
<seb128> well, GNOME changed the default to super-space in 3.8
<xnox> seb128: so from the bug, i'm not sure if ubiquity should stay at "alt-shift" or change to "super-space"
<seb128> well, I'm not decided on that
<seb128> I'm pondering changing back g-s-d to alt-shift
<xnox> seb128: you only type in english these days? =)
<seb128> because super is already used by unity stuff
<seb128> so super-space some of conflicts with other super use
<seb128> and make the keybinding less reliable
<xnox> seb128: yeah, and tbh, for all my live i've never did myself, nor seen anybody else use "super-space" to change layouts.
<seb128> xnox, seems like super-space is the default on macOS...
<xnox> seb128: well "alt" can pop-up the "hud-completion thing"
<seb128> xnox, like the hud was not already an issue ... and everybody remap hud to a key they don't use right? :p
<xnox> seb128: well, it's not really "super-space" wasn't it the mac-button which is at the place where our alt is?
<xnox> seb128: cause hud only works in en_US.UTF-8? =)))) </trolling>
<seb128> xnox, yeah, google seems to suggest they use "command-space"
<xnox> seb128: hm....
 * xnox ponders what's Windows 8 default these days.
<seb128> xnox, http://blog.the-it-blog.co.uk/2013/02/22/some-windows-8-keybindings/
<seb128> xnox, "Win+spacebar : Switch input language and keyboard layout"
<xnox> seb128: i use emacs a lot, and back in the day when hud was introduced, it did "clash" with emacs M-x, but these days the detection is pretty good. And I'd expect the error rate of "super/alt" with/without modifier should be about the same.
<xnox> seb128: right, so matching the $world makes sense, in that case ubiquity should change,
<seb128> xnox, right
 * xnox will write a blog post for those who didn't know (like me)
<xnox> seb128: ok, then the bug is in ubiquity and i'll fix it there and also check up with d-i / console-setup and friends.
<seb128> xnox, thanks
<seb128> xnox, I still would like to see some confirmations that super-space works correctly
<seb128> I played a bit with it and it seemed it didn't work great, or you have to hold super for a bit
<xnox> seb128: well holding it too long, unity help-shortcuts pop-up.
<seb128> right
<seb128> that's another issue
<xnox> and changing keyboard layout should be added to it.
<seb128> but just "tapping" super-space was not reliable when I tried
<xnox> i think i need to boot into clean install, it's not changing anything for me.
<Laney> hey ;-)
<Laney> not really here today but I saw https://launchpadlibrarian.net/155743775/accountsservice_0.6.34-0ubuntu6_0.6.34-0ubuntu7.diff.gz go past
<Laney> it's wrong, does someone want to deal with it?
<Laney> first of all the dpkg -l isn't right, it matches too often, and secondly casing on the presence of a package to change tool behaviour is just plain bad
<seb128> Laney, hey, had a good flight back?
<seb128> Laney, when are you back? I think that one can wait on you to be back ;-)
<Laney> sure, just saw it and got slightly irritated :P
<Laney> flight was good thanks, got back an hour or so ahead of schedule
<seb128> yeah, those accountsservice hacks are annoying, would be nice to clean :/
<Laney> maybe I'll work up an example patch
<Laney> hope you had a nice trip back too!
<seb128> I did, we got an hour delay in SF but we got it back during the flight
<seb128> I also managed to sleep for half of the flight, which made easy to stay up on sunday and avoid jetlag
<Laney> wow, impressive
<seb128> Laney, you have the week off or just today?
<Laney> just today
<seb128> k
<Laney> doing a couple of Debian uploads then off to town
<seb128> have fun!
<attente> seb128, can we do another SRU for g-c-c?
<seb128> attente, hey, had a good flight back?
<seb128> attente, sure, what else did you get fixed?
<attente> seb128, double modifiers like shift+shift_r
<seb128> attente, seems to be working for me already
<attente> seb128, is it in saucy proposed?
<seb128> attente, we have that one in proposed https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.6.3-0ubuntu45.1
<seb128> attente, diff is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/155443518/gnome-control-center_1%3A3.6.3-0ubuntu45_1%3A3.6.3-0ubuntu45.1.diff.gz
<attente> oh. ok
<seb128> attente, is that the one you wanted?
<attente> seb128, yes
<seb128> great
<attente> sorry, i didn't see it
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> you asked about it during the sprint and we got it uploaded midweek
<seb128> attente, I've been triaging a bit the keyboard bugs today btw
<attente> seb128, i noticed, thanks for that
<seb128> attente, yw
<seb128> attente, not sure which ones are on your list, but I've noticed 2 that are easy to confirm
<attente> which ones?
<seb128> - on my keyboard the numlock led is turned off when cycle layouts (but it keeps acting if it was on)
<seb128> (I'm using an usb keyboard while docked)
<seb128> - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1247363
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1247363 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Japanese keyboard layout intercepts caps lock key in ubuntu 13.10 " [Low,Confirmed]
<seb128> e.g settings "capslock" for switching works
<seb128> but for some reason not with japanese
<seb128> e.g it cycles fine fr->en->ru->pinyin here
<seb128> but once you hit japanese/anthi it doesn't move
<seb128> that one is probably low importance, I guess using capslock is not a common config
<attente> yeah, i'm not too sure
<attente> maybe that input method is setting an xkb option
<attente> there's an xkb option to switch the position of the ctrl and caps lock keys
<seb128> attente, not that I can see in "setxkbmap -print"
<seb128> attente, sorry, -print doesn't print option, -query does
<seb128> attente, indeed
<seb128> options:    grp_led:caps,compose:rwin
<seb128> hum
<seb128> but that's the case for other keymaps as well
<sil2100> alex-abreu: ping
<seb128> attente, is super-space working for you? it seems to not cycle layout for me with the current versions...
<attente> seb128, it's working for me
<seb128> attente, ok, it's working now, I had to disable it from ibus-setup though
<attente> like changing the switching shortcut under ibus?
<seb128> yes
<attente> because right now both are set to super space for me
<seb128> I wonder if there is a "whatever starts first gets to grab that key"
<attente> it might be
<seb128> attente, do you think that moving the keys grabbing to unity and using the next group stuff is going to be enough to put us back in shape?
<attente> seb128, it should be, but i'm wondering if there's any low-hanging fruit left that we can fix right now
<seb128> attente, I start wondering if we should go back to the old libgnomekbd-use way, at least as a backend (e.g keeping the indicator and new UI), though I'm not sure how compatible that would be with the new ibus stuff
<seb128> attente, I'm not sure even sure what GNOME tried to resolve there, they basically moved away from xkb but they went back to use it with their nextgroup etc
<attente> i guess there's the four groups limitation
<attente> i'm not sure
<attente> i wonder if the concerns are based on what's in -proposed or what's currently in archive
<seb128> attente, some of the users are just in ranting mode, it's hard to know what is really frustrating them
<seb128> to me the current situation seems usable
<seb128> out of the fact that the "modifier only" actions eat keybindings using the same modifiers
<mlankhorst> vila: enjoy, I found a fix for glamor-egl :P
<mlankhorst> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=88619
<vila> mlankhorst: \o/
<vila> mlankhorst: how will that found its way in trusty ?
<mlankhorst> probably on next upload, I want to hear from upstream first
<vila> mlankhorst: ok, ping me or Mirv when that happens
<mlankhorst> that's what the bug is for, I'll just mention it in the changelog and you'll get a email when it happens
<mlankhorst> :P
<seb128> cyphermox, sil2100: can we get an sru out for indicator-sound13.10?
<seb128> cyphermox, sil2100: sorry, I meant to ask for ido-13.10
<cyphermox> seb128: didn't we do ido on thursday?
<cyphermox> I think it's in the queue
<seb128> cyphermox, right, it's still in the queue
<seb128> need to chase SRU team
<seb128> cyphermox, hey btw, had a good trip back?
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> how about you?
<cyphermox> I wasn't going through LAX :)
<seb128> cyphermox, mine was good, I managed to sleep in the plane enough to not fall asleep before 10pm yesterday night
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> seb128: hi
<seb128> qengho, did you have a good flight back?
<seb128> qengho, I saw you set that chromium segfault fix commited, good work. Do you have a pointer to the fix for it? (it would also be nice to update the upstream bug status if you have a fix, so others don't dup the work you did)
<qengho> seb128: flights were okay. between flights not okay. :)
<seb128> oh? did you connect in lax?
<qengho> seb128: Yes. Had to exit airport, walk along sidewalk, and reenter somewhere else to get to plane. I ran 0.5 km and made it by 10 seconds. No exaggeration.
<seb128> qengho, urg, at least you didn't miss it...
<qengho> seb128: For that bug, i backported a fix.  https://codereview.chromium.org/23461032/
<seb128> qengho, k, I was mostly curious, maybe it would make sense to add a comment in the upstream bug as well?
<qengho> seb128: Makes sense.
<seb128> thanks
<qengho> seb128: De rien.
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> qengho, is there a SRU/security upload scheduled for saucy (just wondering when/how that one is going to land)
<qengho> I gave #security these last Thursday.
<qengho> I suspect very soon should land.
<seb128> including the fix we are talking about?
<qengho> Yes.
<seb128> excellent
<xnox> "<cyphermox> I wasn't going through LAX :)" - that's only your alibi at this point ;-)
<kenvandine> qengho and i flew through LAX the day before that shooting
 * qengho blames kenvandine.
<seb128> sil2100, cyphermox: can we get libdbusmenu 13.10 srued?
<sil2100> seb128: I can push that, yes - are all the changes in lp:libdbusmenu/13.10 good?
<seb128> sil2100, yes, https://code.launchpad.net/~dbusmenu-team/libdbusmenu/trunk.13.10 ... it's one commit (r462)
<sil2100> Aaah, 460 was directly pushed to distro
<sil2100> Ok
<sil2100> Let me spin cu2d
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<cyphermox> alright, so sil2100 took care of it
<cyphermox> thanks!
<seb128> pitti, I've opened https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1247904, let me know what you think
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1247904 in apport (Ubuntu) "Reporting the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP value would be useful" [Low,New]
<sil2100> seb128, cyphermox: libdbusmenu in saucy unapproved queue, if anything
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-05
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<Laney> morning!
<sil2100> Morning Laney !
<Mirv> is anyone else having problems with trusty + pulseaudio ~today?
<sil2100> Mirv: let me upgrade to the todays version and I'll give you a sign
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mlankhorst> hey
<seb128> hey sil2100 Mirv didrocks Laney
<sil2100> seb128: hi! Not sure if you saw, but I released libdbusmenu yesterday and it's in unapproved now
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<sil2100> Hi everyone!
<seb128> sil2100, I noticed, thanks!
<Mirv> hey seb128
<Laney> hallo
<jpds> Who changed indicator-datetime so that the calendar remembers where one left it off instead of reseting to today's month when one clicks on it?
<jpds> There's no "Go to today" button either.
<seb128> jpds, nobody, it's a bug not a wanted change
<seb128> charles knowns about it
<sil2100> didrocks: are you ready for some packaging ACKs? ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: more than ready!
<seb128> Laney, can  dmz-cursor-theme be synced?
<Laney> Didn't we change the alternate priority?
<Laney> (yes)
<Laney> Ignore that merge
<seb128> Laney, you changed it in debian as well, but you lowered there when you bumped on our side, so I'm unsure (I've been too lazy to check why those are differentÃ 
<Laney> We use a different cursor theme to them
<sil2100> didrocks: actually, those changes are made by pitti, so I guess they're 'ACKed by core-dev' already, but anyway some additional eyeballs won't hurt:
<Laney> remember the bug where it changed last cycle?
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/cu2d-phone-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_dialer-app_0.1+14.04.20131104.1-0ubuntu1.diff
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah ;)
<sil2100> http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/cu2d-phone-head-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_messaging-app_0.1+14.04.20131104-0ubuntu1.diff
<Laney> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html â I added a comment there last week or so, ignore that merge
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that rings a bell, I'm unsure about the details (not really interested either, I'm just going through the red lines on versions ...;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: if they are made by pitti, you have your implicit +1 ;)
<seb128> Laney, ok
<sil2100> ;p
<Laney> will pick up versions / my merges in a minute after doing some MPs
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> sil2100: once published, think about pinging upstream :)
<pitti> didrocks, sil2100: mostly testing changes, so not *that* urgent to upload, but +1 on the packaging changes from me (although I shouldn't count here :) )
<sil2100> didrocks: of course!
<pitti> but I'm really happy that these tests landed at last
<sil2100> pitti: ;)
<seb128> happyaron, hey, do you plan to merge the new ibus from Debian now that the t-cycle started?
<seb128> happyaron, they have .4 and we are still on .3
<happyaron> seb128: I plan to merge it soon, I'm triaging existing bugs since yesterday.
<seb128> happyaron, ok, great, thanks
<seb128> Laney, do you have an opinion on updating webkit? the s-c issue that was flagged as blocker seems like it's not specific to the new version (it's already ranking high on e.u.c)
<Laney> seb128: I've got it on my list to test stuff against the new one
<Laney> seems reasonable to do
<Laney> is that bug forwarded?
<seb128> Laney, I just noticed I still had the candidate build installed from since before saucy
<seb128> Laney, yes, I did it last week
<Laney> nice, can't be that bad then
<seb128> @candidate build: didn't notice any issue during this time
<meetingology> seb128: Error: "candidate" is not a valid command.
<seb128> yeah, seems alright
<seb128> Laney, do you want to handle it or should I?
<seb128> do you want a test round in the desktop ppa before upload or should we just go with it?
<Laney> I can do
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> will do a test build in canonical-arm-dev at least
<seb128> good idea
<Laney> not sure about the aarch64 patch
<Laney> but we'll see
<seb128> it built on arm for debian so it's probably ok, but still good to test
<Laney> oh that looks super simple
<Laney> seb128: can you link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1163886 to the upstream bug?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1163886 in webkit (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 with WebKit 2.0+" [Critical,Confirmed]
<seb128> Laney, oh, I used https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1211887
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1211887 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with signal 5 in _XReadEvents()" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> Laney, not sure if we should dup, that might lead to lp timeouts
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> let's link both
<seb128> Laney, the one I used is the one e.u.c is listing
<seb128> Laney, yeah, that might be easier
<seb128> Laney, E'No commit message was specified in the merge proposal.' ;-)
<Laney> bah
<Laney> done
<seb128> Laney, thanks ;-)
<seb128> Laney, what is "full country"?
<Laney> like "United States" instead of "US"
<seb128> hum
<Laney> ideally that would be translated
<seb128> I've no strong opinion on either, as long as the extra verbose isn't putting the string off screen
<Laney> mmm
 * seb128 get the new lib to test
<Laney> It seemed alright on desktop but I'm not sure about the geometry
<seb128> well, it's easy enough to change during the cycle if it turns out to be an issue
<Laney> Like, some stuff does overflow but they are still usable AFAICT
<Laney> could maybe do something smarter there
<Laney> fall back to the shorter one or something
<seb128> well, let's first see if that's an issue in practice
<Laney> ya
<seb128> but I somewhat wish the toolkit would be doing something smart about listitems where the label doesn't fit in the entry
<seb128> like scroll when you press the entry and keep your finger on it
<darkxst> Laney, seb128: Hi
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey
<Laney> how's it going?
<darkxst> yeh good, just got back from a big long weekend of riding
<Laney> nice
<seb128> you people and your bikes ;-)
 * Laney got some new climbing shoes yesterday
<darkxst> seb128, bikes are good!
 * darkxst needs to actually go climbing again sometime! been MTB'ing too much
<seb128> yeah, I guess they are ... I just find it boring biking for days ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, have you ever been Mountain Biking?
<seb128> no
<seb128> just road biking mostly
<darkxst> its a whole different sport ;)
<darkxst> Laney, did you try build gjs on debian ppc?
<Laney> A bit, then I got stuck in build system blah
<Laney> because I had to build mozjs and something else
<Laney> then make configure use the local ones
<Laney> then it failed to link because of some symbol issue
<Laney> and then my plane got called :P
<darkxst> I see
<Laney> will try again soon
<darkxst> I though I saw an email re mozjs 17 landing in debian over the weekend?
<Laney> maybe so
<Laney> this was friday
<Laney> there was gobject-introspection too
<Laney> which is also now in experimental!
<Laney> those guys :-)
<seb128> Laney, I marked your tz change needsfixing, let me know what you think
<Laney> k
<Laney> so rank by city, state, country?
<Laney> I think that should be easy
<seb128> that would be my preference
<seb128> well, at least "new york" should list new york city at the top of the list
<seb128> not in the middle of the lists of that state
<seb128> Laney, I'm not even sure if we want to include the state in the search?
<Laney> well, the alternative is to only list it if the city is a duplicate
<seb128> well, having it on the UI is fine
<Laney> oh I see what you mean
<Laney> that would be possible
<seb128> but can we have the filter to only act on the city and country strings?
<seb128> that would avoid having "new york" in the entry leading to list all the cities in the state
<darkxst> Laney, are you able to get a backtrace of the gjs ppc failure? 90% sure it will be a seg fault
<darkxst> ^test failure
<Laney> yeah, give me a minute
<Laney> seb128: try that
<Laney> not sure if it'll be confusing that the search acts on different text to what's displayed
<Laney> also it probably doesn't sort exactly how you want, could fix that by reimplementing sorting somehow
<seb128> Laney, our GNOME ui does "City (State, Country)" and only matches on the City
<seb128> Laney, but I guess that's a question for mpt
<Laney> one way would be to use the population
<Laney> which we have
<seb128> isn't indicator-datetime doing that?
<Laney> dunno
<seb128> Laney, ok, that version works fine for me, let's get that in ... we can always adapt later with feedback from design/users if needed
<Laney> cool, thanks
<Laney> would be nice to get a release of u-s-s at some point
<Laney> are dailies ever going to be re-enabled?
<seb128> not sure how the workflow is going to change and when
<seb128> the plan is to use bugs for tracking features landing and make easier to land bug fixes again, but not sure how we get there
<Laney> mmm
<seb128> sil2100, Mirv, didrocks: what do we need to do if we want an ubuntu-system-settings landing? use the gdoc to ask for landing still?
<didrocks> seb128: for now, yeah
<seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
<didrocks> thanks to you :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Laney, I'm going to do that today
<Laney> cool, thanks
<seb128> need to test trunk on the device first though
<didrocks> pleaseeee ;)
<didrocks> seb128: we'll just fast-track it, if it's in the daily-build ppa, you can publish it yourself
<didrocks> (just mention it in the spreadsheet so that we can know what's in)
<seb128> didrocks, great, thank you
<Laney> darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6364570/
<Laney> installed tests faiiiiiiiillllllllllll
<Laney> actually I bet I ran it wrong
<jdstrand> seb128: hey, so I get a reliable crash in unity-panel-service, but when I click 'Send an error report to help fix this problem' is checked and I click 'Continue', it seems to upload it, but I don't have a way to report the bug in lp. am I missing something?
<jdstrand> seb128: this is on trusty btw
<seb128> jdstrand, we turn apport off before release, you are reporting to whoopsie
<jdstrand> /etc/default/apport has enabled=1
<seb128> jdstrand, right, pitti said some other file is to edit nowadays
<seb128> Laney, pitti: ^ what file was it again? (that's confusing, why did we change it from using the default config?)
<Laney> apport is on
<Laney> you just have to tell it /where/ to report to
<Laney> comment out problem_types in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<seb128> that's the confusing bit ;-)
<Laney> I thought we were supposed to be fixing people who want to report their bugs to launchpad
<seb128> jdstrand, ^ edit that file (not sure in which way though)
<jdstrand> me either
<jdstrand> why isn't it already edited for trusty?
<seb128> because we just started and nobody turned it on
<jdstrand> databases = {
<jdstrand>     'ubuntu': {
<jdstrand>         'problem_types': ['Bug', 'Package'],
<jdstrand> that should be changed to what?
<Laney> comment out or delete it
<seb128> I'm also wondering if we still benefit from launchpad reporting... looking to bug backlog after saucy, there is lot of noise, and we look mostly at e.u.c
<jdstrand> seb128: are you saying I should not report the bug?
<seb128> jdstrand, no, it's fine, you are likely to follow up on questions etc
<seb128> jdstrand, but most of the bugs turn out to not be useful, so I'm not sure having it turned on by default makes sense
<darkxst> Laney, running lt-jsunit directly should be ok
<Laney> darkxst: You have to set GJS_USE_UNINSTALLED_FILES
<pitti> Laney, seb128, jdstrand: /e/d/apport is now always enabled=1, we edit /etc/apport/crashdb.conf to disable uploading crashes to LP
<seb128> jdstrand, btw I suspect your report might turn out to be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/+bug/1246536 but the stacktrace should tell for sure
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246536 in ido (Ubuntu) "segfault in menu_hidden()" [High,In progress]
<Laney> darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6364646/
<Laney> how do I make it give more useful output?
<Laney> backtrace is not useful
<Laney> hmm, maybe it is actually
<Laney> darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6364651/
<jdstrand> seb128: it probably is. it is the second time I launch rhythmbox from the sound indicator. then I get unity-panel-ser[4688]: segfault at 5c ip 00007fd78341e1f4 sp 00007fff62272aa0 error 4 in libido3-0.1.so.0.0.0[7fd783411000+21000]
<seb128> sil2100, Mirv, cyphermox: can we get current ido trunk published to trusty? (we already have a SRU to saucy) ... that's not impacting touch since ido is desktop specific, so it should be safe
 * Laney shrugs
<seb128> jdstrand, yeah, same issue, ^ should fix it
<darkxst> Laney, that is not helpful ;(
<Laney> yeah ...
<seb128> sil2100, Mirv, cyphermox: I could pocket copy the SRU but then you guys are going to complain about the changelog not being commited back to your trunk ;-)
<jdstrand> seb128: seems errors.ubuntu.com doesn't have 14.04 yet...
<Laney> "oh hey, something failed"
<sil2100> seb128: let me check the commit and try doing that ;)
<seb128> jdstrand, hum, not sure how that's set up, I guess that's a question for ev
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<darkxst> Laney, installed-tests framework was all new for this version
<darkxst> can you try run a gjs program against the build (like gnome-documents or gnome-weather or something)
<Laney> not really
<Mirv> seb128: you're correct, thanks for asking us to do the release :)
<Mirv> sil2100: sou you're handing ido?
<sil2100> Mirv: yep
<sil2100> seb128: looking good, as soon as the indicator stack finishes I'll get it released
<darkxst> Laney, try build with --disable-installed-tests, then run gdb on lt-jsunit again?
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<Laney> darkxst: same
<Laney> also libtool --mode=execute gdb jsunit is the approvedâ¢ way to do that
<darkxst> same as in it fails of read_all_dir from first trace
<darkxst> ?
<Laney> no, the second pastebin
<Laney> although weirdly it does fail in the same way without GJS_USE_UNINSTALLED_FILES=1 (in read_all_dir_sorted)
<Laney> that's probably a red herring though
<Laney> make check DTRT
<jdstrand> seb128: fyi, I filed a bug, I'll let the retrace handle it, but the fix in your bug seems to fix mine
 * jdstrand will keep an eye on both
<seb128> jdstrand, ok, thanks, let me know how it goes
<darkxst> Laney, huh? make check passes?
<Laney> no
<Laney> it does the right thing with the installed tests stuff
<Laney> darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6364646/ had the most information, but that's not very much
<Laney> if you know how to make gjs/mozjs show more stuff then let me know
<darkxst> Laney, will get back to you tomorrow, too tired now ;)
<Laney> basically the test runs the simplest js program, and that fails
<Laney> so the problem is quite fundamental :-)
<darkxst> Laney, yes, I do wonder if its a regression in the new testing framework
<Laney> nah
<Laney> I get it if I run gjs-console manually on the file
<darkxst> hmm ok
<Laney> wait
<darkxst> normally there is more info when JS_EvaluateScript fails, but I do run debug builds of mozjs, not sure if that makes a difference
<darkxst> but really gotta go, will follow up tomorrow ;)
<seb128> darkxst, can you upstream your g-s-d suggested fix for that segfault btw?
<sil2100> seb128: the ido thing will have to wait an hour or so if you don't mind, as we had a blocker in our stacks and all will be unblocked only in some nearest time
<seb128> sil2100, ok, thanks for letting me know
<seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu: the meeting is in 10min (just a reminder since the time changed with DST)
<Laney> muhahaha, just back from lunch in time
<seb128> Laney, start writing your week summary then ;-)
<desrt> seb128: weird!!
<Laney> hung around with some strange guys in oakland, done
<kenvandine> ?
<seb128> desrt, hey, had a good trip back?
<seb128> Laney, hehe
<desrt> yup
<seb128> kenvandine, !
<desrt> took a very-much-needed swap day yesterday
<desrt> did laundry all day :)
<seb128> desrt, nice, I though you would be swapping today as well
<seb128> haha
<seb128> desrt, did you get your washing machine back? ;-)
<desrt> seb128: meh.  i may not be at the peak of my productivity but i have work to do
<kenvandine> i was confused... i thought since the meeting was UTC it would be an hour later for me
<desrt> so i'd rather get some of it out of the way
<seb128> k
 * kenvandine still has a mild fever :)
<kenvandine> a little fuzzy here :-p
<seb128> kenvandine, winter time is one hour closer from UTC
<mlankhorst> hey
<seb128> e.g for Europe summer time is +2, winter +1
<kenvandine> yeah, i did change my clock back an hour... but still was thinking it was an hour later
<desrt> kenvandine: the meeting is at a fixed point in (UTC) space.  your clock moved backwards.  therefore your clock has a lower number at the time of the meeting.
<Laney> gcal got it right for me
<desrt> ie: it's earlier
<kenvandine> desrt, yeah yeah... i know... just confused myself earlier when i read the email
<Laney> indicator-datetime too :qualitycode:
<desrt> you're still reading mails?
<desrt> that's your problem!
<kenvandine> haha
 * desrt just assumes seb will tell him if anything important is about to happen
<kenvandine> hey, friday i was at inbox unread 0!
<qengho> seb128: I was wrong about that SIGSYS stack overflow bug being fixed in yesterday's release. I was thinking of another bug when I answered.  I put SIGSYS fix in a PPA to get testers, not the security release, but it will be in the next release, which should be end of this week.  Cr31 is due then.
 * desrt only has 43 this morning
<kenvandine> first time in ages...
<Laney> Mark all as read is a great feature
<kenvandine> that's cheating :)
<seb128> qengho, ok, thanks, shame that it didn't make it this one seeing the number of users hiting it:/
<seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt, attente, larsu: hey, it's meeting time!
<seb128> I hope everybody travelled back without issue
<seb128> lets get started
<seb128> qengho, hey
<qengho> Hi hi.
<qengho> - done: sprint; Cr release 30.0.1599.114.
<qengho> - todo: preparing for chromium-browser v31 release.
<qengho> - todo: starting work to get multitouch gestures working in chromium-browser. Just acquired APPL (shudder!) touchpad thing to test.
<qengho> EOL
<seb128> qengho, thanks, good work getting the update one, I'm looking forward the next one with that segfault fix included ;-)
<qengho> :(  Me too.
<seb128> Sweetshark, there or not? (he emailed earlier saying he was fighting ubuflu and might not be there)
<qengho> Also, a tab-text disappearing bug.
<qengho> Two big ones.
<seb128> great
<seb128> no Sweetshark I guess
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey
<mlankhorst> glamor-egl bugfixing, sru'ing some of it back to saucy. Working on converting android syncpoint to get my own code closer to upstream kernel.
<seb128> what is glamor-egl?
<mlankhorst> it's used to enable radeonsi support
<mlankhorst> a xorg ddx driver based on egl
<seb128> ok
<seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
<seb128> Laney, hey
<Laney> one sec
 * desrt finishes a 'transaction'
<Laney> â¢ Short week; travelling Friday & off Monday but some of this covers the previous week too
<Laney> â¢ Take care of a lot of outstanding merges, still a lot to do :(
<Laney> â¢ Some desktop updates / sponsoring:
<Laney> â Rhythmbox 3.0
<Laney> â£ Tweak rhythmbox-ubuntuone to work with the py3 peas loader
<Laney> â vala 0.22
<Laney> â gmime
<Laney> â gjs (fails on ppc; debugging with Tim a little bit)
<Laney> â p11-kit
<Laney> â¢ Some users/upstream developers pinged me for help with a texlive issue - dig out a patch and SRU it for them. Failed on ppc; sent back to them for a fix.
<Laney> â¢ Tracked packages where trusty < saucy and copied as appropriate
<Laney> â¢ Help a bit with sponsoring (queue is huge, please give 30 minutes to it if you can)
<Laney> â¢ Some u-s-s fixes
<Laney> â Parse click package desktop files to get metadata for Storage subpanel
<Laney> â Add API to libtimezonemap to get more data for manual timedatescreen (hereafter known as The Springfield Problem)
<Laney> â¢ Ping upstream to get gnome-desktop-testing to exit with a bad exit code on failure(!) & upload this
<Laney> â¢ g-c-c bugfixing & more g-s-d keygrabber iterations (still needs re-SRUing to 13.10)
<Laney> â¢ Sprint: discussions around the LTS desktop & u-s-s testing; should be good
<Laney> â¢ TODO: vUDS planning, webkitgtk update, moar merges
<desrt> what?  that's it?
 * desrt whips Laney to work harder
<seb128> Laney, rhythmbox-ubuntuone? isn't that deprecated?
<Laney> we didn't have a meeting last week :P
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I think it does something like auto-import songs you buy?
<desrt> larsu: you used this...
<Laney> the webview thing is gone
<Laney> but there is still certainly something there
<attente> Laney, what's the keygraber stuff you're working on?
<larsu> desrt: I used to, yes
<Laney> attente: starting it in all sessions, should be fixed in T now
<larsu> desrt: stopped after it wasn't supported anymore and crashed rb regularily
<Laney> for media keys
<attente> oh right
<Laney> shouldn't interfere with your stuff
<seb128> attente, it's the patch that makes g-s-d not grab keys under gnome-shell (since they do it there)
<seb128> Laney, not sure about autoimport, I though that the sync daemon would sync files and that rb would watch the directory simply, but I didn't look into it
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.41 with framework for PPD-/configuration-less printing on mobile devices. cups-browsed automatically creates queues for IPP printers with known page description languages which advertise thenmselves vis Bonjour.
<tkamppeter> - cups: Final 1.7.0 release.
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Review of contributed patch to improve bannertopdf
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Investigated whether foomatic-rip can be merged into cups-filters after the GSoC changes
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters, ghostscript: Applied contributed bug fixes.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<seb128> desrt, hey
<desrt> hey
<desrt> just lots of bugfixing
<desrt> mostly gsettings
<desrt> wrote a new markup parser for rewriting the glib-compile-schemas to fix a lot of more difficult gsettings bugs
<desrt> (end)
<Laney> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/rhythmbox-ubuntuone/trunk/view/head:/ubuntuone/ubuntuone.py
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> attente, hey
<attente> seb128, hi
<Laney> * played super hexagon
<Laney> * eow
<larsu> lol
<attente> fixes for gnome-screensaver, i-keyboard, maliit settings
<attente> lol
<attente> writing the unity key grabber right now
<attente> (trying to at least...)
<seb128> attente, oh, you are doing the work for the unity guys? didn't they say they would do it?
<Laney> for?
<seb128> Laney, ?
<Laney> [what's that] for?
 * Laney brevity
<seb128> Laney, my understand was that brandon would write the unity side of those changes
<attente> the keygrabber for moving the input-source switching into the unity shell
<seb128> understanding
<seb128> oh
<Laney> oh, that, cool
<seb128> Laney, do you ask what that's about? basically doing what gnome-shell is doing
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> the grabbing in the shell
<seb128> then talking to g-s-d via dbus
<Laney> I was wondering for which bit of functionality
<seb128> same as gnome-shell
<attente> since we have the legacy key grabber, we want to move away from that
<attente> otherwise these keyboard shortcut bugs are not going away :(
<larsu> attente: ah, will that fix the problem of many things in the session registering global grabs?
<seb128> attente, thanks for working on that, but feel free to bounce that part to bregma's team, they said they would do it
<attente> larsu, i think so
<attente> i *hope* so
<attente> seb128, will do
<larsu> attente: cool! Did you tell the unity8 guys about this as well?
<attente> larsu, no, i'm not sure what they're doing on their end
<seb128> larsu, we don't have g-s-d in unity8 session, so we don't have any key grabbing there atm ... I'm not even sure what input stack we have (the android one afaik)
<seb128> that's something we need to discuss/get done at some point
<seb128> but I didn't see it on the roadmap yet
<larsu> yes, I just wanted to make sure it's on their radar
<seb128> the current focus is on touch interactions
<larsu> of course
<seb128> right, we should check with them
 * seb128 makes note to do that
<seb128> attente, thanks
<larsu> seb128: thanks :)
<seb128> larsu, yw
<seb128> larsu, your turn ;-)
<attente> thanks seb128!
<larsu> okay
<larsu> - fixed indicators and unity-panel-service to be less verbose in the logs (fixed criticals and removed unnecessary warnings)
<larsu> - triaged all indicator-sound bugs and fixed some of them
<larsu> eof
<larsu> - reviewed a couple of desrt's gsettings patches
<larsu> - stopped unity-guys from killing notify-osd from their upstart script
<larsu> - started porting gtk 3.8 patches to 3.10; the biggest one (custom menu items) is done; looks like we can drop a couple of other patches
<seb128> lol
<seb128> larsu, "eof" doesn't goes in middle of summaries :p
<larsu> mh?
<seb128> larsu, you have 2 items, eof, and 3 items (or my IRC client is acting weird)
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> larsu, thanks ;-)
<seb128> ok, my turn
<attente> i see it too...
<larsu> seb128: must be your irc client (it looks right on mine, and I typed it _after_ pasting the summary)
<larsu> well, maybe it's my irc client then
<attente> larsu, we're using the same irc client :P
<Laney> nah, your irc client probably buffered the others and inserted that one right away
<seb128> larsu, I think irssi in screen acts weirdly when you paste and type then
<larsu> ah okay
<seb128> like it buffers the copy
<larsu> I'll paste the eof with the payload next time ;)
<seb128> and you end up with the eof going before the buffer is flushed
<seb128> ;-)
 * larsu always messes something up at the meeting :(
 * seb128 hugs larsu
<seb128> ok, my turn
<seb128> * discussed desktop LTS TODO with different people (bugs backlog, what to do with GNOME updates, what to do with new GNOME apps where style doesn't fit Unity), need to follow up on list with a summary, but basically:
<seb128> - stay on GNOME 3.8
<seb128> - bring "classic" menus to some apps (evince, nautilus, rhythmbox), upstream the patches as well (e.g basically use a menubar for "classic desktop" (e.g everything but gnome-shell))
<seb128> - look at gtk headerbars to see if we can make those fit in Unity (e.g show decorations from the WM, hide "X")
<seb128> - look at how difficult updating gtk would be
<seb128> .
<seb128> * ubuntu-system-settings:
<seb128> - some good discussions about work for next cycle and testing
<seb128> - looked at merge request to add autopilot tests
<seb128> - some small improvements to the charge graph (colors)
<seb128> - some reviews
<seb128> .
<seb128> * saucy SRUs: gtk+3.0 empathy desktop-files-utils libgpod file-roller
<seb128> * looked at errors.ubuntu.com saucy reports, tried to help getting fixes for some of the issues (e.g opened bugs, talked to upstream, filed bugs, asked for landing, etc)
<seb128> .
<seb128> * tried to help attente with his keyboard work, tested some fixes, landed SRUs
<seb128> .
<seb128> * started on saucy merges: libisofs libgnomecanvas gnome-power-manager distribute popplerkit.framework desktop-file-utils gmime gcr poppler
<seb128> * some bug fixes and upstream backports
<seb128> * bug triaging
<seb128> </week<
<seb128> </week>
<seb128> that's it for the summaries, I've some notes to add though:
<seb128> - we start a new cycle, if you are doing packaging, please look at your Debian merges
<seb128> - don't forget about sponsoring, as Laney pointed we accumulated some backlog there and we should clean it a bit
<seb128> - vUDS is coming soon, if you want a session, please register the blueprints you need this week
<seb128> </notes>
<seb128> does anyone has other questions/comments?
<qengho> Nope.
<seb128> ok, seems not
<seb128> thanks everyone!
<seb128> didrocks, your turn ;-)
<Mirv> o/
<didrocks> seb128: we'll have it onlin in an hour I guess, I'm not sure it moved in the calendar for various people
<didrocks> Mirv: ^
<didrocks> online/in a hangout
<seb128> didrocks, your call, I mentioned the DST in my reminder email earlier today
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but we didn't discuss that with robru and other guys earlier
<seb128> didrocks, well, we discussed it last cycle when we changed for summer time and we agreed to stay on UTC
<seb128> didrocks, but I guess people forgot since
<didrocks> robru: are you around?
<seb128> didrocks, anyway, your meeting, your call
<didrocks> if robru is around. i guess the rest of the team is
<didrocks> ogra_: around as well? ^
<ogra_> didrocks, for what ?
<kenvandine> i'm here
<ogra_> didrocks, i'll be in the regular meeting, currently i'm in another meeting
<didrocks> ok, so stuck
<attente> bschaefer, hey
<bschaefer> attente, hello!
<attente> bschaefer, did you start the unity key grabber yet? because if not, i can give it a shot
<bschaefer> attente, ive not, got to finish something else before i can start :(
<bschaefer> attente, you're more talking about filtering the events from compiz to unity to g-s-d?
<attente> bschaefer, yeah, the dbus service for doing that specifically
<bschaefer> attente, on the g-s-d side of things?
<attente> i've started looking into the unity side
<bschaefer> it should just accept an XEvent I would think
<bschaefer> well the unity side of things, we need to know when an event is not used by compiz
<bschaefer> as it has to pass that event to all the compiz plugins
<bschaefer> then compiz hanldes the event for it self
<attente> oh. i see, i guess this is slightly different
<bschaefer> at that point, if no plugins use that event and compiz just does an update with it then we need to pass it on through
<bschaefer> yeah
<bschaefer> i just need to add a post_event_handle function
<attente> i mean adding a dbus interface on the unity side that provides GrabAccelerator, GrabAccelerators, etc.
<bschaefer> and emit that to all the plugins listening
<bschaefer> oo
<attente> bschaefer, do we still need that if all we're doing is calling addAction on the CompScreens?
<bschaefer> yeah if you can get that working, to check if you're getting the correct stuff you can stick it in
<bschaefer> CompScreen::_handleEvent
<attente> i'm assuming adding extra calls to addAction won't step on the toes of the other actions that are already there
<bschaefer> attente, hmm i would think so...as just because unity didn't handle that event key there might be another plugin that uses it
<bschaefer> attente, what would addAction be doing?
<attente> bschaefer, it would just be adding a CompAction for every accelerator that needs to be grabbed, and each CompAction has a callback that triggers the AcceleratorActivated signal
<attente> bschaefer, i may be misguided, so any advice is appreciated :)
<bschaefer> attente, hmm, well that could overwrite actions (possibly), but if you add that in through the unityshell xml file
<bschaefer> for compiz to handle
<attente> bschaefer, so the way i'm trying to do it is very dynamic i suppose
<bschaefer> as a callback, then emit a dbus message for g-s-d that should work
<attente> bschaefer, it should be possible to add arbitrary actions at runtime, right?
<attente> my thoughts were that this would be possible, and so we could create a CompAction for each key grab that is requested at runtime
<bschaefer> attente, yes you can, the switcher use to do that
<bschaefer> attente, well lif we do that
<bschaefer> we might as well add them all to the unityshell xml file so it can be configured
<bschaefer> that way you can just declare a callback function
<robru> didrocks, just up now...
<bschaefer> and when you compiz hits those actions you'll get a message in the callback function
<didrocks> robru: meeting in 15 minutes :)
<bschaefer> attente, actually
<attente> bschaefer, "so it can be configured" means what exactly?
<robru> didrocks, ok, just having breakfast
<bschaefer> attente, there shotcuts shouldn't be configure able
<bschaefer> yeah
<attente> we can leave the configuration of those shortcuts to g-s-d and gsettings
<bschaefer> attente, so you can change the shortcut in ccsm :)
<bschaefer> but yeah thats not a good idea
<attente> i think at least
<attente> ah, i see
<bschaefer> how would unity get ahold of those?
<attente> g-s-d would make dbus calls to unity to tell it what shortcuts to grab
<attente> basically in the way that it does now with gnome-shell
<bschaefer> cool, that makes sense
<bschaefer> attente, the only thing i would be worried about is stomping on another plugins hotkey
<bschaefer> but really, i don't think theres any conflicts atm
<attente> bschaefer, what other plugins are normally running concurrently with unityshell?
<bschaefer> quite a few
<attente> are there any you can think of that would take precedence over g-s-d's hotkeys?
<bschaefer> core composite opengl decor copytex regex grid gnomecompat place snap mousepoll imgpng wall vpswitch commands resize session move compoztoolbox animation expo fade scale workarounds ezoom unityshell
<bschaefer> thats the list
<bschaefer> of what im running at lease
<bschaefer> attente, i would not
<bschaefer> attente, do you have a list of all the hotkeys?
<bschaefer> attente, or at lease go through and make sure none of the hotkeys are taken already?
<attente> bschaefer, they're all user-configurable, so i guess we shouldn't depend on them being any fixed value
<bschaefer> attente, well more about for default
<bschaefer> attente, as we should at lease assume our default has no conflicts
<bschaefer> there does exist a problem where a user changes its hotkey to that which g-s-d uses, then that would become a race...
<bschaefer> (or depending on which plugin is looked at first really)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Hi, Seb!
<attente> bschaefer, not sure if this is a comprehensive list, but: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6365666/
<seb128> GunnarHj, hey
<GunnarHj> seb128: What's the status of an interface in g-c-c region for installing/removing languages?
<GunnarHj> Will it be ready for 14.04?
<GunnarHj> darkxst filed bug 1175499 a while ago, and the idea with making use of existing code in l-s, e.g. parsing pkg_depends, sounds interesting.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1175499 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "dbus interface" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1175499
<GunnarHj> How is installation of languages handled in Ubuntu Touch?
<qengho> Is anyone here using the APPL Bluetooth wireless Touchpad with Ubuntu?
<bschaefer> attente, i know at lease: logout '<Control><Alt>Delete'
<bschaefer> has a conflict with what ChrisTownsend was doing
<bschaefer> with trying to make it bring up umm
<bschaefer> a task manager sort of
<seb128> GunnarHj, nobody is working on langpacks for region atm I think, I doubt it's going to be ready for the lts if we don't change that
<seb128> GunnarHj, Ubuntu Touch doesn't have langpack installation atm, that's a TBD
<bschaefer> attente, but yeah i don't see anything in there that looks like it'll conflict off the top of my head
<seb128> GunnarHj, the Ubuntu Touch fs is read-only so you can't install packages there, we need to find a way/create a rw location
<seb128> qengho, I'm not, maybe check with cyphermox if you have bt issues
<GunnarHj> seb128: Are you saying that l-s will still be there in 14.04?
<seb128> GunnarHj, if things don't change it looks like it
<attente> bschaefer, the plugins you listed, they're always loaded in that order?
<qengho> seb128: it's more of a kernel problem.
<seb128> qengho, try asking #ubuntu-kernel then I guess
<bschaefer> attente, hmm not sure
<bschaefer> attente, but i think so
<attente> bschaefer, i'm wondering if we can do it in some way that g-s-d's hotkeys always get overridden if something else wants it
<bschaefer> attente, when you do a 'unity' or 'compiz --replace ccp' it'll usually tell you which plugin is being loaded
<bschaefer> and i think its alphabetized
<bschaefer> well its not alphabetized
<bschaefer> attente, its loaded based on needs
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, so Ubuntu Touch is English only for the time being?
<bschaefer> attente, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6365693/
<seb128> GunnarHj, no, we install some langpacks on the default image and custom images for countries can be customized to have their language preinstalled
<attente> bschaefer, yeah.. your list definitely doesn't match mine
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I see.
<bschaefer> attente, unityshell plugin looks like its last
<bschaefer> soo depending on how the plugins are stored internally, all other plugins that conflict with g-s-d should run first
<bschaefer> attente, but we can always test that when the time comes :)
<bschaefer> hmm
<bschaefer> attente, whats yours?
<bschaefer> attente, and is unityshell plugin last?
<attente> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6365697/
<attente> but yeah, unity-shell is still last there :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: As regards the idea with a dbus interface to l-s - do you think you could convince pitti that it would be a good idea to add such a thing? He did some preparations in l-s a couple of years ago that I think were made with a switch to g-c-c region.
<GunnarHj> in mind
<bschaefer> attente, cool, sooo im hoping the lists of plugins are just stored in a vector
<bschaefer> where each one will be pushed on to the back as they come in
<seb128> GunnarHj, you can ask him, I don't know ... but currently the focus is on Ubuntu Touch, I doubt we spend much time, this cycle, changing thing that mostly work
<bschaefer> attente, to test, just change a hotkey to a one that overrides a g-s-d hotkey test to make sure the plugin gets it
<seb128> bschaefer, attente: do you guys are talking about adding a new plugin there?
<seb128> sil2100, do you still plan to publish ido today?
<bschaefer> seb128, nope, adding g-s-d key handling
<sil2100> seb128: yep!
<sil2100> seb128: just first I need to push out unity8
<sil2100> seb128: then ido is next in the queue
<sil2100> (in the meeting right now)
<bschaefer> in unity
<bschaefer> by adding actions in compiz based off the g-s-d hotkeys
<seb128> bschaefer, ok, I was just checking because of the "will be pushed on to the back"
<bschaefer> so compiz can shot a callback to unity, then we can send it off to g-s-d
<seb128> bschaefer, yeah, I followed a bit that, all fine then ... I was just making sure that no new plugin was involved for that code, changing user config on update is tricky
<bschaefer> seb128, :), well we are talking about how the plugins were loaded into compiz and the effects of g-s-d plugins conflicting with other plugins
<attente> yeah.. i think it's easiest just to keep it in the unityshell plugin
<seb128> +1
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<seb128> ok, on that note I'm off for some exercice
<Laney> GunnarHj: hey ...
<seb128> bbiab
<bschaefer> yup
<Laney> bye seb128
<bschaefer> cya
<sil2100> Bye seb128  ;)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Will ask pitti, but i realize that the phone is no. 1 priority.
<GunnarHj> Laney: Hi!
<seb128> Laney, btw I've a small mr on ubuntu-system-settings to add colors to be charge graph, if you feel like doing a review (I was sort of waiting on that to ask for a landing, but since review doesn't seem to happen I'm doing small nudging ;-)
<Laney> seb128: sure, saw it come in
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> I thought you asked for landing already
<seb128> Laney, no, I said I would test on the device first, and I sort of wanted that change in the landing so I waited a bit on the review...
<Laney> I see
<Laney> k
<bschaefer> attente, but yeah i think that'll work as long as we can provide all the information each dbus interface needs as the params
<Laney> GunnarHj: So... I don't really like your solution to that accountsservice problem I'm afraid
<bschaefer> attente, if you've any other questions about unity/compiz just ping me :)
<attente> bschaefer, ok, i'll let you know if i run into problems :)
<Laney> it's really weird for tools to change their behaviour based on things like that
<attente> bschaefer, thanks :)
<seb128> Laney, well anyway, I'm going to add the landing to the list once I'm back from sport, if it gets in great, otherwise that's just reported to the next one
<GunnarHj> Laney: I was afraid you'd say so. But have you really considered what amount of code would be involved to deal with that tiny issue via a separate method?
<bschaefer> attente, sounds good, and thank you for doing it :)
<GunnarHj> Laney: It really is a l-s specific issue.
<Laney> GunnarHj: I don't know, no - but I'm willing to look at writing a patch; I guess you'd try to factor out all of the common code as much as possible
<Laney> It means that the stuff will be really unreliable on desktop until l-s goes away
<GunnarHj> Laney: The idea is to handle the bits and pieces at one place, yes. But what is it that makes it unreliable? The code works pretty well at this time, with very few related bugs.
<Laney> if I try u-s-s on my desktop now I'll get the append behaviour
<Laney> prepend
<GunnarHj> Laney: With the latest accountsservice?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Is language-selector-gnome installed in the phone?
<Laney> It's really a proxy for "are we running on a desktop?" when we shouldn't be trying to split behaviour like that - the code should do the same thing everywhere, as far as possible
<Laney> Fair enough if it were enabling some optional piece of functionality, but this is making a guess as to what the caller of the function wants to do
<sil2100> seb128: ok, pushed ido to trusty, should be in the archives soon!
 * sil2100 trusts it doesn't break stuff
<GunnarHj> Laney: I understand your objection from a principal POV. Sure, it does make a guess in this single respect. But the "prepend behavior" was implemented in order to not destroy the prio list when other UIs such as User Accounts in g-c-c or lightdm-gtk-greeter submits a single language code. To the prepend behavior should be seen as an exception due to how l-s works.
<GunnarHj> Laney: You mentioned trying u-s-s on your desktop - Can you do so easily? I'm asking because I don't own a smart phone yet, but it would be valuable to be able to study the phone UI.
<Laney> Yeah, it mostly works there
<Laney> The end goal is to use that instead of g-c-c
<Laney> It's currently something we keep in mind but not an active target if that makes sense
<Laney> i.e. don't file bugs for stuff which is weird on desktop just yet
<GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks, then I'll install it and give it a try. No bugs yet, promise. :)
<GunnarHj> Laney: It struck me that when you get the prepend behavior now when you try u-s-s on you desktop, it's the expected behavior since language-selector-gnome is present on your desktop (and still the principal tool for dealing with language settings).
<Laney> I have an idea
<Laney> not sure it'll work, so let me do a patch tomorrow and get back to you
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok, looking forward to study your idea. ;-)
<xnox> seb128: ++++++ !!!! \o/ \o\ \o/ /o/ on bringing the menu bars back where they are suppose to be =)
<czajkowski> heh
<darkxst> seb128, yes, will upstream g-s-d fix today
<darkxst> Laney, http://pastebin.com/w3R2RtHc
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-06
<Mirv> morn
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<mlankhorst> morning!
<pitti> since today's dist-upgrade unity panel crashes every few mins, bug 1248446
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248446 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_unref()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248446
<pitti> this keeps rearranging windows and screen flicker, so it's quite noticeable
<seb128> pitti, hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> pitti, that's an ido-trusty issue, I'm debugging it with tsdgeos on #ubuntu-unity, downgrade libido-3-0 if you need a workaround
<seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: ah, so known? thanks
<pitti> seb128: I'm good, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, "known", you are the second one to ping me about it, tsdgeos is getting a valgrind log
<pitti> apport traces arrived, too
<tsdgeos> seb128: i'll add the valgrind log to the bug
<seb128> tsdgeos, thanks
<seb128> pitti, retraces matches http://paste.ubuntu.com/6369241/ from tsdgeos
<tsdgeos> the valgrind log is not very interesting though
<seb128> tsdgeos, doesn't tell where the other unref is?
<tsdgeos> according to the trace it'd seem it's not a double delete, just a bad delete :D
<tsdgeos> but i haven't done much/any glib "bad deletion" code on valgrind so no idea if this is what one would expect from a double delete or not
<pitti> you usually get a rather clear warning if you try to unref an already free'd object
<pitti> (on stderr)
<pitti> s/warning/critical/
<Laney> morning desktopperinos
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> larsu, there?
 * seb128 wonders wth about this code
<larsu> seb128: now I am
 * larsu was up long last night
<seb128> larsu, good morning!
<seb128> larsu, the issue is the g_object_unref (file); in l308
<larsu> seb128: wait, are we talking about the same thing here as in #ubuntu-unity?
<seb128> larsu, I knew I should have waited for you to be around, that you fix it easily :p
 * seb128 just spent 30min looking to the changes to come to the conclusion you had directly :-(
<seb128> larsu, yes, we moved there because pitti reported the issue as well
<larsu> seb128: I wonder how this wasn't a problem during my testing
 * seb128 gets the bug as well since today's update
<seb128> larsu, yeah, me too :/
<seb128> larsu, it segfaults every time there is a as refresh it seems
<seb128> I can trigger by calling SetIconFile in dfeet
<seb128> or just by waiting a bit
<larsu> ah, doesn't happen in the loaderâ¦
<larsu> oh, it does when closing it :)
<seb128> larsu, you didn't test the changes on your real session? no cookie :p
<larsu> :'(
<seb128> larsu, you can still get cookies by get a fix up for review ;-)
 * seb128 hugs larsu
<larsu> \o/
<seb128> larsu, bug #1248446 if you want a bug reference
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248446 in ido (Ubuntu) "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_unref()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248446
<larsu> seb128: thanks. https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/remove-superfluous-unref/+merge/194088
<larsu> tsdgeos, pitti: sorry for that crash :/ (and thanks for tracking it down)
<tsdgeos> larsu: no worries
<tsdgeos> it took me a while to see it was crashing for how fast it restarts, but the konsole area was shirking/enlarging when switching tabs, and there's been no konsole update so i thought "WHAT?Â¿?"
<seb128> larsu, I wish the glib documentation was better about those things, I looked at it earlier but "transfer-none" doesn't speak to me
<larsu> seb128: you should learn those, they're all over the docs. I agree its not very intuitive, but it's _very_ consistent
<larsu> transfer-none: ownership is not transferred in any way (no freeing/unreffing)
<seb128> larsu, I though they were tags for gir, not human documentation :p
<larsu> transfer-full: free all the things you get back
<larsu> transfer-container: free the passed back array/list, but not its contents
<larsu> seb128: they're used for both :)
<seb128> larsu, thanks for the explanations ;-)
<seb128> larsu, btw I set the commit message on the mr (and fixed the "trans*f*er-none" typo)
<larsu> tsdgeos: I've long been a proponent of _not_ restarting things that crash so that it's more noticable. I'm very alone with that opinion though
<larsu> and I can understand the other side of it
<larsu> seb128: oh, thanks!
<tsdgeos> yeah
<tsdgeos> larsu: for devels it's better the permanent crash, for Joe User it's better the restart
<tsdgeos> i guess
<larsu> maybe we should only enable restarting on releases?
<seb128> larsu, what would we win of not restarting?
<seb128> that wouldn't give us more infos on the segfault
<seb128> but it would let those of us who run $unstable without a working desktop
<seb128> it seems getting the annoyance for no benefit
<larsu> people would complain louder
<larsu> seems like many just click away the crash reporter
<larsu> but yeah, I totally see your point about a working system
<seb128> you can't really "click away the reporter", since closing it submits by default (you have to uncheck before closing to don't report)
<seb128> larsu, the current system didn't stop you to have several users reporting the issue the day the bug landed as well...
<larsu> ha, fair enough
<larsu> but they still had to revert to a lower version
<seb128> sil2100, can we get a new ido landing once https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ido/remove-superfluous-unref/+merge/194088 is in trunk?
<sil2100> seb128: I think we can do that, let me keep that on the radar
<seb128> sil2100, ok, earlier is better, unity-panel-service keeps segfaulting with yesterday's update which is going to be annoying for trusty users
<larsu> lol, "trusty users"
<sil2100> ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<sil2100> seb128: if I would miss the moment when it's merged in, please poke me if you can
<seb128> larsu, best release codename ever :p
<sil2100> And I'll spin stuff
<seb128> sil2100, ok
<seb128> sil2100, it's merged
<vila> mlankhorst: ping regarding bug #1244324
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1244324 in glamor-egl (Ubuntu) "glamor-egl crashes when running autopilot tests" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244324
<vila> mlankhorst: can you get the fix in ubuntu while it's dealt it upstream so we can restore the ci service ?
<vila> *dealt with
<mlankhorst> patience ;)
<mlankhorst> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glamor-egl/0.5.1-0ubuntu6
<vila> mlankhorst: wow, magic !
<mlankhorst> should autoclose the bug in an hour or so
<vila> ohhhhh
<sil2100> seb128: ok, spinning!
<seb128> sil2100, thanks
<vila> mlankhorst: hmm, I'm not sure I understand, none of xserver-xorg-glamoregl libglamor0 libglamor-dev in installed on qa-radeon-7750
<vila> mlankhorst: did your fix propagates somewhere else I should look for ?
<mlankhorst> vila: 7750 is radeonsi right?
<mlankhorst> xserver-xorg-video-ati pulls it in
<vila> not installed either
<vila> err wait
<vila> wait wait wait
<mlankhorst> ;)
<vila> I'm looking at the host not at the container ;) scratch everything I said in the last minutes ;)
<mlankhorst> I had a feeling
<mlankhorst> considering 7750 wouldn't work otherwise
<seb128> bah, hate tests
<seb128> gdk-pixbuf fails to build due to tests, of course it works locally
<mlankhorst> ;)
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/155950592/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.gdk-pixbuf_2.30.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<mlankhorst> tried on a i386 chroot?
<seb128> I should
<seb128> it looks like they might be running installed-tests are build-time
<seb128> or at least relying on the package to be installed
<mlankhorst> seems that way
<vila> mlankhorst: yeah, xserver-xorg-glamoregl installed in the container
<mlankhorst> seb128: yeah same failure here in a pbuilder
<vila> mlankhorst: but I'm hitting a different bug so will need to tweak before confirming your fix ;)
<mlankhorst> ERROR:animation.c:11:test_animation: assertion failed (error == NULL): Couldn't recognize the image file format for file '/tmp/buildd/gdk-pixbuf-2.30.0/tests/test-animation.gif' (gdk-pixbuf-error-quark, 3)
<mlankhorst> after i created the file it asked for, but empty
<seb128> mlankhorst, it seems to be because it looks for the loader in the system location
<mlankhorst> yeah
<seb128> I'm pondering just disabling the tests :p
<seb128> but Laney and pitti are going to look angry at me if I do that
<mlankhorst> seb128: convert to autopkgtest or figure out how to override it?
<mlankhorst> :>
 * Laney stares
<mlankhorst> or define failure as another way to succeed. should be laney approved
<seb128> that's going to teach me to update to new versions when they seem fine, it was mostly new tests there
<Laney> go ask mclasen, he fiddled with that stuff
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703012
<ubot2> Gnome bug 703012 in general "make check fails: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '.../gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> seb128: that doesn't fail on a local build?
<pitti> seems strange
<pitti> it doesn't sound very sensitive to a buildd environment
<mlankhorst> pitti: not really, it can use the system version to test
<seb128> pitti, it doesn't fail on my system which has gdk-pixbuf installed
<Laney> it fails in a clean chroot
<pitti> oh, you didn't build in sbuild/chroot/pbuilder, I figure
<seb128> no I didn't
<seb128> I can't be bother to test build everything in pbuilder :p
<seb128> (that's what I get in return :/)
<pitti> sbuild == â¥ :)
 * seb128 needs a bigger disk than 80G
<pitti> well, sbuild + apt-cacher-ng + lots of RAM and building everything in /tmp, that is (/tmp on tmpfs)
<mlankhorst> hehehhehe
<mlankhorst> pbuilder-dist + 16 gb ram to build in works for me
<Laney> I think you need to set GDK_PIXBUF_MODULEDIR
<mlankhorst> after I modded pbuilder to kill the archives after installing deps, before building, using 8 gb for copies of archive was a recipe for disaster
<Laney> for the testsuite
<mlankhorst> Laney: maybe, but the testsuite should do that upstream
<Laney> ?!?!?!?!
<Laney> of course, any fix is going to be an upstream fix
<seb128> Laney, do you want to have a look at it, since it seems you already have an idea what to do? ;-)
<Laney> I don't :P
<Laney> I just looked at the manpage for gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders
<seb128> sil2100, what happened to the ido landing?
<sil2100> seb128: the indicator stack is running, when it is done we can release
<seb128> sil2100, ok, that's taking ages it seems
<seb128> on that note, lunch
<seb128> bbiab
<sil2100> seb128: yes, it was like that since all the stacks got ran, and this meant that indicators wasn't allowed to run by itself and was halted by waiting on other dependent stacks to finish
<sil2100> seb128: so platform had to be built first etc...
<sil2100> seb128: there was no way of dealing with this without breaking the stack builds that others prepared
<seb128> sil2100, ok, well as long as it lands soon that's ok
<seb128> sil2100, it would be nice if the fix was in by the time the US wakes up and start upgrading ... which is soon ... do you know when the stack is going to be ready?
<sil2100> seb128: sorry about that in overall, hope we'll release it in like 15 minutes or such
<seb128> ok
<Laney> oh
<Laney> I got the tests to pass
<Laney> now to see where to insert that into the build system
<seb128> Laney, gdk-pixbuf?
<Laney> ye
<seb128> oh, great ;-)
<Laney> it was what I said
<seb128> I was just about to start looking at it, I though said "no" earlier
<seb128> thanks ;-)
<Laney> yeah, I did
<Laney> but then I thought "oh, I'll just try it quickly"
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> sil2100: please don't land anything that is installed on touch
<didrocks> seb128: what about the ido landing?
<didrocks> is there a regression?
<seb128> didrocks, the landing from yesterday makes unity-panel-service segfaults every few minutes
 * sil2100 checks for ido in the touch
<didrocks> sil2100: it is in touch
<seb128> didrocks, that's fixed in trunk, I really want that to land before U.S wake up/upgrade
<didrocks> seb128: well, we can as well backout
<didrocks> I first want to know if ido is what is getting one indicator crazy
<seb128> didrocks, "backout"?
<didrocks> (the name is cut)
<didrocks> revert to previous ido
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> the fix is a one liner
<didrocks> it seems it wasn't network-manager
<seb128> dropping an incorrect g_free
<sil2100> hm, I was really sure that ido had nothing to do with touch
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but we have no idea if ido is what making all touch testss failing
<seb128> didrocks, I fail to see how ido could be used on the phone
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, do you have any other idea?
<didrocks> seb128: I just know it is in the phone by a dependency, I'm unsure if it's loaded or not
<seb128> didrocks, that doesn't make any sense to me, I checked the rdepends, no phone component uses it
<seb128> didrocks, do you have a log/error from a failing test?
<seb128> didrocks, what components have failing tests?
<didrocks> seb128: it's not a failing tests, it's one indicator going crazy
<didrocks> taking all CPU
<seb128> which one?
<didrocks> and so a lot of tests failing
<didrocks> indicator-*
<didrocks> it's truncated, as said
<seb128> oh, "fun"
<didrocks> indeed
<didrocks> I was hoping for indicator-network
<seb128> is there any way to untruncate?
<didrocks> as we got a network-manager update
<didrocks> seb128: not that I know of
<seb128> didrocks, what's the diff between not-buggy and buggy?
<didrocks> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
<sil2100> hmm
<didrocks> psivaa downgraded all nm component
<didrocks> we still have this indicator
<seb128> hum
<seb128> didrocks, can somebody reproduce the issue on an actual device?
<sil2100> psivaa: can you try downgrading ido?
<didrocks> seb128: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-maguro-smoke-ubuntu-rssreader-app-autopilot/9/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log/*view*/
<didrocks> sil2100: already what I asked 10 minutes ago
<didrocks> seb128: see different top run (for 2 minutes)
<didrocks> seb128: we are trying on the test env directly now
<didrocks> easier to rerun the tests
<seb128> didrocks, if an actual human could reproduce on a device where we can adb to that would be useful
<psivaa> sil2100: downgraded to 13.10.0+13.10.20131031-0ubuntu1 and running a test now
<sil2100> psivaa: thanks!
<seb128> didrocks, psivaa, sil2100: do you have an uptodate device? what is apt wanting to do if you apt-get remove libido3-0.1-0
<seb128> ?
<didrocks> system settled. SUCCESS
 * seb128 has saucy still there, needs to upgrade
<didrocks> seb128: no, I don't have it handy, trying to get back production working first
<seb128> didrocks, what does "system settled. SUCCESS" means?
<didrocks> seb128: that the system was "quiet enough"
<seb128> didrocks, e.g that the ido downgrade fixes the issue?
<didrocks> which should indicate that the indicator wasn't at that CPU % usage
<didrocks> maybe, I want multiple runs before affirming it's the case
<didrocks> seb128: seems to indicate ido is guilty: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/trusty-touch-maguro-smoke-ubuntu-calculator-app-autopilot/12/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log
<didrocks> see the last top run
<didrocks> no indicator*
<didrocks> psivaa: running others?
<seb128> didrocks, so it's unity-services which brings ido on the image
<didrocks> seb128: but unity-services isn't started, right?
<didrocks> on the device
<seb128> didrocks, well, if it's not a fail to see how ido can impact on indicators :/
<didrocks> seb128: let's see with other runs, but at least, if we identify that one as being the causeâ¦ there is clearly something to look into
<seb128> didrocks, can you see if unity-panel-service is running on that test machine?
<didrocks> psivaa: you are the one connected ^
<seb128> sil2100, meanwhile please publish the new ido
<seb128> that can't hurt
<seb128> if we need to do a revert we can still do it
<seb128> but at least we don't stay on a buggy version while deciding on the revert
<didrocks> sil2100: no, please don't publish it
<seb128> grrrr
<didrocks> I would rather go with a backout versoin
 * seb128 manual upload
<didrocks> seb128: come on, you screw us
<seb128> didrocks, and you screw us
<didrocks> so please try to be cooperative
<seb128> difference is that desktop is in production
<didrocks> seb128: I wasn't the one pushing a broken version to the archive
<seb128> where your image doesn't reach users
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, so let's rollback
<didrocks> I'm happy to handle that rollback
<seb128> didrocks, that version is not broken afaik, but it seems unity8 is doing something weird trying to load gtk components
<didrocks> seb128: well, we don't know, you thought yesterday's version wasn't broken
<didrocks> and it segfaults
<seb128> you better fix whatever tries to load a gtk library
<didrocks> so I'm trying the safest path for now
<seb128> didrocks, still, something on the device is doing something stupid
<seb128> didrocks, and you better get at the bottom of it
<didrocks> seb128: I don't say the contrary
<didrocks> seb128: *but* we are doing a complex 1.4 AP transition
<didrocks> I still don't have a status on the 1.3 last release because of this
<didrocks> so let's get some other test runs
<didrocks> (and no, no unity-panel-service is running now on my device with a recent image)
<seb128> didrocks, I guess no indicator is using 100% cpu either?
<didrocks> seb128: I don't have latest
<didrocks> seb128: sorry, but keep being interrupted, even no coffee from this morning
<didrocks> mostly because of that issue
<seb128> didrocks, stop starting IRC before coffee!
<didrocks> that's not related to it
 * seb128 installs new ido on his saucy
<didrocks> psivaa: around at all?
<psivaa> seb128: didrocks: so with nm downgraded (maguro) i still see some systemsettle failures. but with ido downgraded (mako) i see some improvements
<psivaa> didrocks: yes, the tests take time to run :)
<didrocks> psivaa: how many tries with ido downgraded?
<didrocks> just one or more?
<seb128> psivaa, "some improvements" or "it's fixed"?
<psivaa> didrocks: seb128: one test, still running
<seb128> psivaa, can you "grep ido /proc/*/maps"
<seb128> and see if that returns something?
<didrocks> (flashed latest image and of course, can't reproduceâ¦)
 * sil2100 is confused
<seb128> didrocks, ok, so you want to revert ido in trusty now?
<didrocks> seb128: I wish we can wait for 30 minutes to get more results
<sil2100> I'll just get back to fixing AP issues maybe... ;)
 * sil2100 walks away silently
<seb128> didrocks, well, if we wait for 30 min we can land the segfault fix, so it's in, then we can revert
<seb128> if needed
 * seb128 doesn't get what blocking the 1 liner segfault fix brings us
<didrocks> seb128: as you wish, but if we see that ido is really the faulty one, I don't want that we wait for testing the ido fix, agreed?
<psivaa> seb128: i ran that command on both devices and both return nothing
<seb128> didrocks, sure
<didrocks> sil2100: ok, please release this ido ^ know that we maybe we'll revert all ido soon though
<seb128> didrocks, I've installed the new ido on my device (saucy) and it creates no issue
<didrocks> psivaa: what do we have on mako?
<psivaa> didrocks: downgraded ido
<didrocks> downgraded network-manager as well?
<psivaa> didrocks: no
<didrocks> ok, so calendar-app seems to show that ido is really guilty
<didrocks> really really weirdâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, calendar-app?! wth...
<didrocks> seb128: the test of calendar-app (systemsettle one)
<didrocks> seb128: basically ALL tests were screwed because of this indicator
<didrocks> seb128: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/
<seb128> didrocks, calendar-app is not an indicator though
<didrocks> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/12:20131105:20131031.1/4903/
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but if an indicator is using all the CPUâ¦
<didrocks> the tests will fail
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> 67% of mem for an indicaotr
<seb128> how do we go about debugging the issue next?
<didrocks> seb128: so, if it's not ido as it seems it can't, if it's not netowkr-manager, what can it be?
<seb128> can we figure out what loads ido
<seb128> and what indicator uses the cpu?
<didrocks> seb128: I guess that's more a question for upstream to figure it out
<seb128> didrocks, we had an unity8 landing, did we rul that one to be buggy?
<didrocks> right now, I'm trying to ensure we find the right guilty
<seb128> didrocks, or are we sure than downgrading ido is workaround it?
<didrocks> seb128: it can be unity8, indeed
<didrocks> seb128: what I'm telling, I'm not ensured it's ido right now
<seb128> didrocks, also, whoever "downgraded nm", did they include the libs or just the network-manager binary?
<didrocks> seb128: psivaa told me he dowgraded all binaries from nm source
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> if only we knew which indicator was at faultâ¦
<seb128> where is the script doing the top? can we tweak it?
<didrocks> seb128: we can tweak it, do you know what's the parameter for top to not truncate?
<didrocks> it's in utah test suite
<sil2100> seb128, didrocks: ido publishing
<psivaa> didrocks: seb128: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6370333/ is the nm related packages in the nm downgraded device
<didrocks> sounds like the whole selection
<didrocks> system settled. SUCCESS
<didrocks> with friends tests
<didrocks> on mako
<didrocks> (with thus only ido downgraded)
<psivaa> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> so 3 on 3 runs?
<sil2100> seb128: ido should be in soon
<didrocks> local run on a really fresh install -> nothing
 * didrocks wonders why he's the only one caring about this
<didrocks> ok, giving upâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, top -b -n1 -c  > log
<seb128> didrocks, that gives non truncated commands
<seb128> didrocks, sorry was googling for the top truncating
<seb128> Laney, thanks for the gdk-pixbuf fix!
<psivaa> didrocks: terminal app tests, systemsettle success: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-terminal-app-autopilot/15/console
<psivaa> which earlier failed with the latest ido
<Laney> seb128: np!
<Laney> don't really understand these new test harnesses
<Laney> so I have trusty/13 on my mako
<didrocks> psivaa: ok, continue running mako with this ido downgraded, let's try to reflash maguro
<Laney> how do I get this bug?
<psivaa> didrocks: do you want me to get maguro with the latest image and downgrade ido as well?
<didrocks> Laney: I don't get it as well, locally
<didrocks> psivaa: no, just get latest image on maguro, then, let me give you a branch so that we know which indicator is failing
<psivaa> didrocks: ack
<didrocks> psivaa: can you apply that to the systemsettle script branch? http://paste.ubuntu.com/6370377/
<didrocks> hopefully, the command name won't be truncated anymore
<didrocks> so that we see what indicator is guilty
<didrocks> (so just run one test)
<didrocks> then, let's downgrade ido
<psivaa> didrocks: ack
<didrocks> and retry all tests on maguro as well
<Laney> are there any crash files?
<didrocks> Laney: none from the dashboard. For instance: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/12:20131105:20131031.1/4905/ubuntu-terminal-app-autopilot/
<Laney> mmm
<didrocks> seb128: I don't htink that will work through adb though
<seb128> didrocks, the top?
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> because of adb TERMCAP
<didrocks> just try adb shell
<didrocks> and your command
<didrocks> -> see top being truncated
<seb128> didrocks, COLUMNS=900 top  -b -n1 -c  > log
<seb128> that works
<didrocks> psivaa: mind prepending this COLUMNS=900 as well?
<didrocks> seb128: nice catch
<psivaa> didrocks: ack will do. the flashing ongoing btw for maguro
<Laney> btw:
<Laney> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ aptitude why libido3-0.1-0
<Laney> i   ubuntu-touch        Depends unity8
<Laney> i A unity8              Depends unity8-private (= 7.83+14.04.20131105.1-0ubuntu1)
<Laney> i A unity8-private      Depends libunity-core-6.0-8 (>= 7.0.0)
<Laney> i A libunity-core-6.0-8 Depends unity-services (= 7.1.2+13.10.20131014.1-0ubuntu1)
<Laney> i A unity-services      Depends libido3-0.1-0 (>= 13.10.0daily13.06.19)
<didrocks> ahah, so unity8 is using it
<didrocks> yeah but
<didrocks> libunity-core-6.0-8 doesn't start unity-services
<Laney> it's probably unused
<seb128> it's not
<didrocks> (u-p-s)
<Laney> but that's why it is there
<seb128> right
<seb128> libunity-core-6.0-8 depends on it (is that buggy?)
<didrocks> if it's optional now, yeah, it is
<didrocks> it was required before
<seb128> because of a schemas or something?
<didrocks> but still, that doesn't explain if downgrading ido reliably "fix"
<Laney> it has the upstart job
<Laney> to start ups
<didrocks> Laney: but not on touch, right?
<Laney> oh and ups itself
<seb128> but yeah, that ido stuff doesn't make sense to me
<Laney> no
<Laney> don't know if it needs to be a depends of the library or could be from unity itself or so
<didrocks> I still don't know why I don't see that crazy indicators here
<didrocks> the only thing I don't have is messages and sim card
<didrocks> maybe popey can see the issue
<popey> hm?
<didrocks> popey: with latest image, if you adb shell just after you boot your phone
<didrocks> and run COLUMNS=900 top  -b -n1 -c
<popey> immediately after boot?
<didrocks> do you see some indicators being at the top, like taking most of the CPU (for the first 2 minutes
<didrocks> )
<didrocks> yeah
<popey> lets see
<didrocks> and then 2 minutes after boot
<didrocks> thanks!
<popey> no
<popey> i see hud-service initially
<didrocks> and then everything's idled?
<popey> nothing especially eating cpu
<popey> aside from top
<didrocks> humâ¦
<didrocks> why? it's so reliable on the DCâ¦
<popey> current build number: 13
<popey> device name: mako
<popey> that the right one?
<ogra_> we probably just need to send popey over and it will work magically
<didrocks> yeah
<popey> ooh
<didrocks> ogra_: well, can't get it here as well :/
<didrocks> Laney neither it seems :/
<didrocks> I was hoping it was sim-card influenced
<ogra_> weird
<popey> top - 13:26:23 up 3 min,  1 user,  load average: 1.70, 1.34, 0.58
<didrocks> yeah, sounds reasonable
<didrocks> psivaa: do you have other mako results while maguro is flashing?
<didrocks> psivaa: like, we do have 0 system settle idling issue?
<popey> lots of wifi networks in the DC?
 * ogra_ doesnt fine a load above 1 reasonable ... 
<popey> or indeed, none?
<ogra_> but thats another topic :)
<popey> thats mostly "top" ogra_
<popey>  2969 root      20   0    2540   1096    708 R  2.3  0.1   0:01.26 top
<psivaa> didrocks: yes terminal app is finished with success
<ogra_> popey, top cant produce a load above 1 ... thats something else
<didrocks> popey: yeah, maybeâ¦
<popey> well, top is more than everything else
<ogra_> popey, try on a decent PC ...
<popey> there is other stuff, but top is the largest proprtion
<didrocks> ogra_: TBH, I would appreciate that we all focus the effort on fixing the regression first
<ogra_> load should always be under 1 unless there is something actally demanding going on
<popey> indicator-power wakes up now and then
<Laney> qengho: looks like the chromium tests fail newly now: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/job/trusty-adt-chromium-browser/11/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6370456/
<popey> those are all eating a little bit all the time
<didrocks> psivaa: so you continue on running everything manually on mako?
<didrocks> (all the one which had system settle idling issue)
<ogra_> didrocks, agreed, but what if my assumption is that top gets us wrong data ;)
<psivaa> didrocks: yes, ubuntuuitoolkit is running and addressbook is the next
<didrocks> psivaa: I'm so puzzledâ¦
<psivaa> didrocks: ?
<didrocks> psivaa: like, we have really nothing using ido
<didrocks> and you just downgraded ido on mako
<didrocks> and we see no failureâ¦
<psivaa> didrocks: right, these are the nm related packages in mako: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6370341/
<didrocks> yeah, so latest of latestâ¦
<psivaa> didrocks: yes
<psivaa> so afaik only change is downgraded ido
<didrocks> Laney: seb128: any idea? ^
<seb128> can you upgrade it again and get the non truncated top output?
<didrocks> seb128: that's why we reprovision maguro
<didrocks> then I guess psivaa will run one
<didrocks> the first test should get the failure
<seb128> didrocks, not really, as said I can't make any sense of the situation, I fail to see why ido would be anything else than a file on disk
<didrocks> with the non truncated top output
<seb128> e.g the only thing linking to it is unity-panel-service
<didrocks> system settled. SUCCESS
<didrocks> for ubuntuuitoolkit
<seb128> that's not used on the device
<didrocks> seb128: before, most of the tests (like > 60% of them) were failing
<didrocks> on image 12 and 13
<didrocks> on both devices
<seb128> didrocks, image 12 had the new ido already?
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> k
<ogra_> indicator-sound and  indicator-datetime are in libdio3's rdeps
<didrocks> image 12 is the diff I pasted
<seb128> ogra_, ?
<ogra_> ogra@anubis:~$ apt-cache rdepends libido3-0.1-0|grep indicator
<ogra_>   indicator-sound
<ogra_>   indicator-sound
<ogra_>   indicator-datetime
<seb128> ogra_, is that in saucy?
<seb128> ogra_, or do you run that on a box with a raring source?
<ogra_> oh, sorry, thats precise even
<jpds> larsu: 'sup.
<seb128> ogra_, that was before the convergence codebase
<larsu> seb128: do you know the state of desrt's app info stuff?
<seb128> larsu, no
<larsu> the branch looks pretty complete to me...
<larsu> okay, I'll just wait for him to wake up then
<larsu> hi jpds!
<didrocks> psivaa: so trusty-touch-maguro-smoke-ubuntu-clock-app-autopilot failed to settle right?
<psivaa> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> but I don't see anything in top_beforeâ¦
<didrocks> psivaa: do you see anything here? ^
<psivaa> yea, i see indicator-datetime-service once no other related to indicator
<didrocks> but nothing reliably on top
<didrocks> on top of top
<didrocks> as we had
<psivaa> yea, i'll run once more
<didrocks> asac: I'm completely out of ideas ^
<didrocks> 4 non stop hours I'm struggling with thisâ¦
<didrocks> system is settled now
<didrocks> ok psivaa: let's try to increase the timeout
<didrocks> to 5 minutes
<didrocks> trying to get one run
<didrocks> then, we'll look later on the regression
<didrocks> I'm completely out of ideas
<didrocks> we have way more hectic transition to handle with
<didrocks> so, let's hope that we "only" take longer to settle
<didrocks> and that's not reliable
<didrocks> psivaa: making sense?
<psivaa> didrocks: yea, we could try that
<didrocks> psivaa: so, you do continue with a longer timeout to run all mako + all maguro which system settled fail?
<didrocks> so that we can have run 13 with real results
<didrocks> on both
<didrocks> before AP 1.4 transition
<psivaa> didrocks: ack
<psivaa> didrocks: im changing the timeout from 120 -> 300
<didrocks> psivaa: thanks, keep me posted in your rerun if it's not enough and we'll see
<psivaa> didrocks: one more thing, do you want me to upgrade ido to the latest in mako when running with increased timeout?
<didrocks> psivaa: for the remaining one? yeah, why not
<didrocks> (don't rerun those for which system settle passed)
<psivaa> didrocks: ok, i've run most of the tests in mako that failed systemsettle_before with older ido.. ill run them if there is anything left
<didrocks> ok
<didrocks> psivaa: so, friends couldn't system settle on mako, this is just after the ido upgrade + timeout?
<psivaa> no, this was with downgraded ido and shorter timeout. the one that's running now is with the increased timeout,
<psivaa> forgot to upgrade ido. sigh...sorry, will do that after this run
<didrocks> psivaa: ok, you kept the "longer top command right"?
<psivaa> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> great, let's hope :)
<didrocks> seb128: so, that seems to confirm it's really an annoying-unknown-issue
<didrocks> and not ido related
<didrocks> not sure why we had ido downgraded passing test reliably for a while, like multiple times in a row
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, that's quite weird indeed
<didrocks> Saviq: did you make any change in unity8 that can make an indicator taking > 60% of CPU at load time?
<didrocks> boot*
<Saviq> dednick, â?
<dednick> Saviq: :/ not that I know of
<dednick> didrocks: an indicator, you mean the backend
<didrocks> seb128: so, things we have better top log, I can't find a case where there is an indicator at the top
<didrocks> since*
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> red herring?
<didrocks> well, depressing, annoying, botheringâ¦ whatever word you want to putâ¦
<psivaa> didrocks: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/13:20131105.1:20131031.1/4910/friends-app-autopilot/ is with increased timeout and old ido
 * didrocks sigh
<didrocks> so at least: 2151 phablet 20 0 212204 177852 3848 R 69.5 9.3 2:45.98 /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service
<didrocks> psivaa: but with downgraded nm, we got it, right?
<dednick> didrocks: ubuntu-settings-components landing. Says needs upstream feedback. ?
<didrocks> dednick: yeah, about why is it needed, what will use it
<psivaa> didrocks: at the moment we dont have anything running with downgraded nm, but we still got systemsettle issues with downgraded nm
<didrocks> psivaa: and on those systemsettle issues, it was an indicator at the top?
<dednick> didrocks: sharing qml components between ubuntu-system-settings and unity8
<didrocks> dednick: can you write that on the spreadsheet please? (or someone to add that)
<dednick> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> thanks!
<didrocks> psivaa: I wonder if we are not mixing 2 issues
<didrocks> one which can be the nm one
<didrocks> and another one which happens way less often
<psivaa> didrocks: quite possible, let me look at some of the runs and see if we could see a pattern
<didrocks> psivaa: meanwhile, can you retry downgrading nm
<didrocks> and rerun the one with system settle idle failing?
<didrocks> cyphermox: hey, around?
<psivaa> didrocks: so now, on maguro with all the latest nm and ido but with increased systemsettle timeout, we see the systemsettle_before pass now.
<psivaa> http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/13:20131105.1:20131031.1/4909/
<psivaa> didrocks: which device you want me to downgrade nm?
<didrocks> psivaa: the mako one (the one which failed friends)
<cyphermox> didrocks: what's up
<didrocks> psivaa: on the maguro, this is the status with no systemsettle issue?
<didrocks> cyphermox: we have indicator-network going crazy sometimes in the lab just after boot
<didrocks> cyphermox: see those top (taking at a some intervals): https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-friends-app-autopilot/24/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log/*view*/
<psivaa> didrocks: yea still need to run some tests on maguro
<didrocks> psivaa: ok ;)
<didrocks> psivaa: if you can try to downgrade nm here as well
<didrocks> the more info we haveâ¦
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you think you nm upload can be linked to that?
<cyphermox> no
<didrocks> cyphermox: do you have any idea of what can be the cause then?
<didrocks> it's really happening like 50-60% of each boot
<cyphermox> no idea
<didrocks> cyphermox: can you help us on that?
<cyphermox> you said indicator-network? I don't see it in that listing
<didrocks> cyphermox: here is the diff list: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
<didrocks> cyphermox: in top you mean?
<didrocks> or in the diff?
<cyphermox> in top
<didrocks> 2151 phablet 20 0 212204 177852 3848 R 69.5 9.3 2:45.98 /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service
<didrocks> look at the last runs
<didrocks> (5 minutes after the device booted)
<cyphermox> oh, I see, it's more than one top
<didrocks> yeah, it's regularly top snapshot
<didrocks> the last one is 5 minutes after the first one
<maxiaojun> oj, you are discussing touch in #ubuntu-desktop
<maxiaojun> oh
<didrocks> maxiaojun: depends on where people are :)
<didrocks> nm and indicators are also desktopish
<didrocks> cyphermox: indicator-network is rocking between 63 and 70%
<didrocks> cyphermox: from the diff between images, apart from nm, I don't see what can cause thisâ¦
<cyphermox> unity8\
<cyphermox> lxc-config-android could, depending on what changed there...
<didrocks> cyphermox: Saviq is telling the same thing than you for nm: they don't think they are impacting it
<cyphermox> and regardless, the bug is in indicator-network, not in NM
<cyphermox> I'm not denying it's possible, I'll look at it
<didrocks> cyphermox: right, but right now, I'm trying first to get us to a state where we can test things
<didrocks> cyphermox: and we are totally blocked on that one
<cyphermox> how is that?
<didrocks> cyphermox: because a lot of tests are failing because of this CPU usage
<didrocks> cyphermox: so we even don't know where we are test-wise
<didrocks> which will make regression from AP 1.4 harder to read
<didrocks> psivaa: I found the log with downgraded nm: http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/trusty-touch-maguro-smoke-ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts-autopilot/11/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log/
<didrocks> so if indicator-* is indicator-network
<psivaa> that's more confusing because that was with the downgraded nm
<didrocks> right
<psivaa> didrocks: straight away a contradiction: on mako, with downgraded nm, systemsettle success :(((((
<psivaa> http://10.97.0.1:8080/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-friends-app-autopilot/25/console
<didrocks> psivaa: ok, can you try to push more and more mako tests
<didrocks> even those which succeed
<psivaa> didrocks: ack will do.
<didrocks> if we see no issue, we can say it's nm
<psivaa> didrocks: rssreader on mako with downgraded nm has systemsettle_before failure
<psivaa> http://10.97.0.1:8080/user/psivaa/my-views/view/trusty_mako_smoke/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-rssreader-app-autopilot/14/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log
<didrocks> psivaa: ok, can you try unity8 itself?
<didrocks> (there are multiple binaries)
<didrocks> it's the last shot :/
<psivaa> didrocks: you want me to downgrade unity8 or run the unity8 test without downgrading unity8
<didrocks> psivaa: downgrading the whole unity8 source
<didrocks> and related binaries
<psivaa> didrocks: ack, will do
<psivaa> didrocks: ok, i'll replace the current unity8 with the one before, 7.83+14.04.20131031-0ubuntu1 but not sure if that had any issues
<didrocks> psivaa: it didn't in the previous run
<psivaa> didrocks: ack, running tests with older unity8
<seb128> cyphermox, do you still plan to look at those wpasupplicant issues that are ranked high on the saucy e.u.c list?
<seb128> happyaron, that ibus abrt, can you at least upstream it with the stacktrace? that might be enough for them to have a clue?
<seb128> happyaron, https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/7d83460403cc3ff966c466f15d32aecec048c0dc is ranking high on the saucy issues
<happyaron> ok
<seb128> happyaron, thanks
<psivaa> didrocks: clock_app and rss reader tests have failed systemsettle before even with older unity8.
<didrocks> *shrugh*
<didrocks> psivaa: still indicator-network on top?
<psivaa> didrocks: yes, for both app tests
<psivaa> didrocks: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6371157/ are the relevant packages just to confirm
<didrocks> psivaa: you reverted unity8-private as well, right?
<psivaa> didrocks: yes, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6371172/
<psivaa> and unity8-fake-env:armhf  as well
<didrocks> okâ¦ all libnm* as well
<psivaa> didrocks: yep, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6371182/
<didrocks> psivaa: can you rm /etc/init/android-usb-state.conf ?
<didrocks> and retry?
<psivaa> didrocks: running clock with that removed
<didrocks> ogra_: you told that the job is not wired, but do you think that we can have indicator-network reacting to it? ^
<didrocks> (it's started by mtp)
<ogra_> nah
<ogra_> it would only even do something on cable disconnect/reconnect
<ogra_> didrocks, i think the probalm is on a different levelÃ¶ (as i told you a few hours ago)
<ogra_> *problem
<didrocks> ogra_: what level?
<ogra_> kernel ...
<ogra_> or rather cpufreq in the kernel
<psivaa> didrocks: so the clock app test failed on syssettle_before again with /etc/init/android-usb-state.conf removed
<psivaa> indicator-network-service is at the top
<psivaa> rss app test is running to confirm
<dednick> didrocks: comment has been added to landing pipeline doc.
<didrocks> ogra_: did we got kernel change?
<ogra_> didrocks, no, but we have a cpufreq governor (ondemand) set that makes the device always operate slightly on the edge (see the load values in the top output) ... so it can easily be that the scaling happens to slow and we just hit a threshold ...
<Laney> "will be used by [â¦] ubuntu-system-settings" - what is this?
<ogra_> moving to the interactive governor (which i'm just testing here) actually makes me see the load way below 1 (0.2 or some such on idle) and processes seemigly dropping down faster in CPU usage
<seb128> Laney, shared UI components for indicators/unity/settings
<seb128> Laney, e.g calendar widget
<ogra_> didrocks, if your timeout change improved the test, thats definitely an indicator for the slow app reaction i'm seeing here too
<psivaa> didrocks: rss also fails with /etc/init/android-usb-state.conf removed. let me know if/when i could revert the changes to the tests to increase the timeout
<didrocks> hum, I've no idea
<didrocks> ogra_: no, it didn't improve
<didrocks> ogra_: the indicator is still crazy after 5 minutes
<didrocks> psivaa: are you connected on the device?
<psivaa> didrocks: yes
<didrocks> can you try get a backtrace to see what the indicator is doing?
<ogra_> didrocks, ok, then my issue is separate
<didrocks> psivaa: like, right now, the indicator is still skyrocketing, right?
<Laney> seb128: seems like they have a left checkbox and a rewritten timezone displayer thingy in there
<Laney> is this coming from design?
<ogra_> (teh device feels a *lot* more responsive with interactive though)
<ogra_> didrocks, do the devices in the lab have SIMs ?
<didrocks> ogra_: I guess they do have some, psivaa?
<ogra_> didrocks, i wonder if there are issues with them since you say you can reproduce it anywhere else
<psivaa> didrocks: i think they have. let me confirm
<seb128> Laney, check with dednick
<ogra_> would be intresting to see what happens if someone removes the SIM and we test again
<psivaa> didrocks: indicator is still coming on the top
<didrocks> psivaa: ok, so installing debug symbols and gdb into the running process?
<seb128> Laney, I think they had the checkbox on the other side like us and they moved back to the standard UI, maybe outdated description/code somewhere?
<Laney> looking in the example file
<psivaa> didrocks: ok, this is new to me. let me try that
<didrocks> psivaa: do you need help?
<seb128> Laney, I didn't follow the details, I just know what's the project is about
<didrocks> seb128: would is the right person to help debugging indicator-network?
<seb128> Laney, we discussed it previous cycle when we were talking about custom widgets in indicators/settings
<seb128> didrocks, tedg
<Laney> okay, weird, I'd have contributed / tried to use it earlier if I knew about it
<seb128> didrocks, or Wellmark
<seb128> didrocks, or cyphermox
<seb128> Laney, well, it was not really a thing yet, it just starts shaping I think
<psivaa> didrocks: yea i need help in that
<seb128> Laney, e.g everybody start with "get stuff somewhat working for their component"
<seb128> started*
<didrocks> tedg: cyphermox: one of you around to help?
<cyphermox> yes
<tedg> didrocks, ^
<tedg> ;-)
<didrocks> psivaa: can you give cyphermox ssh access?
<didrocks> he has access to the lab
<cyphermox> tedg: I think you really should look at it though
<didrocks> I just want someone who can install the dbgsym with psivaa
<didrocks> and gdb attach
<didrocks> bt full
<tedg> I'm confused on what's happening.
<cyphermox> rocket science.
 * tedg looks for bryceh
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> pass the bucket ...
<didrocks> tedg: so, we have indicator-network taking > 60% of CPU
<tedg> Hmm, that's odd.  Look at dbus and see if there's a bunch of signals coming to it?
<tedg> It doesn't really do any processing.
<didrocks> tedg: can you ssh to the phone with psivaa's help and debug live?
<didrocks> tedg: FYI, the only diff we have is: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
<didrocks> tedg: we tried to backout ido, network-manager, lxc-android-config and unity8
 * ogra_ is wondering if the SIM cards are run out of credit or some such and spam NM with error messages
<didrocks> ogra_: ohhhh
<didrocks> running out of credit
<didrocks> maybeâ¦
<ogra_> didrocks, thats what i wanted to say before :)
<tedg> Hmm, network-manager from 0.9.8.0-0ubuntu22 to 0.9.8.4-0ubuntu3, cyphermox might not be out of the woods yet ;-)
<didrocks> ogra_: well, you told "with SIM card", that's why I asked you and popey :)
 * ogra_ is just dsitracted being in a meeting
<cyphermox> meh
<didrocks> tedg: we tried to downgrade
<cyphermox> didrocks: did libnm* also get downgraded?
<didrocks> we still have this indicator-network going crazy after boot more than 30% of the times
<didrocks> cyphermox: yep
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> then yeah, have fun tedg ;)
<cyphermox> j/k :)
<cyphermox> psivaa: how can I get there?
<cyphermox> in the meantime my phone was just reflashed with trusty-proposed, I'm hoping to reproduce here
<didrocks> cyphermox: we were 5 trying to reproduceâ¦
<didrocks> nobody was able to
<didrocks> (tried to start 10 times)
<cyphermox> ah
<didrocks> so it's just, after boot indicator-network is using > 60% CPU
<cyphermox> and what's the difference between our own phones and what's in the lab then?
<didrocks> and never calm down
<didrocks> (we get that I would say 30% of the time in the lab)
<tedg> Is there anything in the log file?
<didrocks> apart from SIM cardâ¦
<cyphermox> otherwise we're testing something different, and we can't have that
<cyphermox> SIM card shouldn't affect the indicator directly in any way
<didrocks> psivaa: can you pastebin the indicator-network logs
<tedg> cyphermox, It effects us when we read the oFono dbus interface to show status, but yes.
<didrocks> psivaa: should be ~/.cache/upstart/indicator-network.log
<cyphermox> tedg: well, you need to do that regardless -- that's what I mean by it shouldn't make a difference what kind of brand the SIM is for :D
<didrocks> tedg: the question is "what changed?" from what we tried to downgrade, I don't see any other potential culpuritâ¦
<cyphermox> I could understand if it was breaking here for me, with my weird provider that uses UTF8 in some names
<didrocks> cyphermox: let's hope you can reproduce :)
<cyphermox> seems to me like it's going to be hard to reproduce...
<tedg> didrocks, I think the only other possibility would be unity8 itself, it does talk to the indicator, but it'd be weird to cause that kind of traffic.
<cyphermox> lxc-android-config seems to have changed
<didrocks> tedg: as told, we reverted it
<psivaa> didrocks: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6371408/ is the log
<cyphermox> (ie. I don't have access to /var/lib/dpkg even though I rebooted to a writable image)
<psivaa> well the last bit, let me retrieve the whole log
<didrocks> tedg: seems spammy? ^
<cyphermox> it kind of is, but that shouldn't break things
<didrocks> cyphermox: lxc-android-config reverted and tested as well
<cyphermox> could the fact that phonesim is there extra could be breaking things?
<tedg> didrocks, blame cyphermox, we get lots of messages from NM :-)
<didrocks> tedg: can be, but not the cause of the regression ;)
<tedg> This is an N4?
<didrocks> we both have the issue on mako and maguro
<didrocks> since we had that diff: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
<tedg> Just to be curious, why is IDO in the phone image?
<didrocks> tedg: seems to be a packaging error/change
<didrocks> tedg: but it's not loaded (u-p-s isn't started)
<tedg> Yeah, it just pulls GTK along with it.
<didrocks> tedg: right, but not the cause of the current issue ;)
<didrocks> we even tried, as not loaded, to revert it
<didrocks> no effect
<didrocks> tedg: you do have access to the QA lab?
<tedg> VPN?  Yes.
<tedg> But I don't know what to do from there.
<psivaa> didrocks: tedg: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6371436/ is the whole log
<didrocks> psivaa: I think we really need to give the creds for tedg to connect and gdb
<dednick> Laney, seb128: at the moment all the ubuntu-settings-components are using components from the indicators in unity8, for which we didn't really have a clearcut design for each component. I guess once we have it in archive we'll do the transision for unity8 first, update for correct design and switch then ubuntu-system-settings.
<didrocks> yeah, it seems a lot of spam
<didrocks> not sure why
<dednick> Laney, seb128: just need to get it into archive first!
<didrocks> will be better for tedg to see where the indicator is looping
<Laney> I don't know why you need to do the spreadsheet stuff when it's not going to be on any image
<Laney> should just be able to release it
<dednick> Laney: to where?
<Laney> universe
<dednick> Laney: well i have no idea about packaging. But it needs to go in trusty archive surely no?
<bregma> seb128, do you think the g-s-d/unity keygrab issue is worthy of a vUDS session or is it more of a "just do it" kind of thing?
<Laney> dednick: yeah, that's what I mean, but you shouldn't have to go through the spreadsheet stuff if there is no way it'll impact the touch images
<Laney> dednick: When stuff is moved to use it then that'll probably need to do it
<didrocks> Laney: before, it was linked to the unity8 move to it
<dednick> Laney: tis what I was told do to.
<didrocks> I guess that's why it ended up here
<didrocks> right now, it's for us to track the release to distro then
<didrocks> but right now, as you noticed, we are doing a complex transition and have issues :)
<didrocks> so rather than discussing process, I would appreciate all available help
<Laney> hmm?
<Laney> I'm trying to get it off your plate, not attacking :/
<didrocks> Laney: if you can release it from cu2d (I think it built) and get an AA review, that's fine
<didrocks> IIRC, everything is wired up
<cyphermox> didrocks: got something suspicious
<didrocks> cyphermox: oh?
<didrocks> tell me you can reproduce it :)
<Laney> ok cool
<tedg> didrocks, I'm logged in, but indicator-network doesn't seem to be using excess CPU?
<didrocks> psivaa: didn't you tell me it was still going crazy?
<psivaa> didrocks: it is at the top even now.
<cyphermox> didrocks: reproducing on the lab device
<didrocks> tedg: connected on the same device? ;)
<tedg> AFAIK
 * didrocks wonders why he needs to act as a proxy
<didrocks> cyphermox: ah? what's up then?
<tedg> Ah, interesting.
<didrocks> (please nobody rebooting anything)
<tedg> It wasn't before, but is now.
<cyphermox> it gets borked by phonesim, AFAICT
<cyphermox> when phonesim starts, there's a small period of time where the device isn't quite ready
<tedg> Yeah, it seems to be the system bus.
<cyphermox> I'd look at that piece of code for when devices appear, first
<tedg> The system dbus-daemon is at 20% CPU
<tedg> ofonod is at 10%
<tedg> Seems like a game of crack the whip
<cyphermox> indicator-network all threads are stuck in poll()
<didrocks> but phonesim wasn't changed?
<cyphermox> not that I know
<seb128> bregma, it seems a technical details, not really a session topic
<seb128> bregma, we might have one on input methods/ibus/fcitx though
<bregma> seb128, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-1311-default-imf-review
<cyphermox> ahahaha
<seb128> bregma, indeed
<Laney> bah
<Laney> seems the sdk changed ItemSelector.expanded to read only
<Laney> breaks half of the u-s-s panels
<seb128> Laney, did that change land?
<Laney> I guess so
<seb128> Laney, shrug
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~nicolas-doffay/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/selectors-multi-selection/+merge/190605 ?
<Laney> looks like it
<Laney> is that a buggy search and replace?!
<tedg> cyphermox, It seems the modem state keeps changing.
<cyphermox> I'm changing it
<tedg> cyphermox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6371532/
<tedg> Oh
<seb128> Laney, not sure, pinging the sdk guys
<Laney> ok
<Laney> it was prelimenary, so maybe that means that we lose
<seb128> Laney, that's going to teach us to not have tests :p
<Laney> heh
<seb128> that would have stopped their merge
<seb128> didrocks, ^ btw, ubuntu-ui-toolkit's update has incompatible changes that makes settings really unhappy
<didrocks> seb128: I guess you need to talk with the sdk guysâ¦ :/
<seb128> didrocks, doing that right now
<Laney> the change was actually noted
<Laney> in some comments from timp
<seb128> Laney, SHRUG
<Laney> haha
<seb128> nic-doffay is giving me the "you guys should just update your code"
<Laney> so much for APIs
<seb128> yeah, that's mind boggling
<seb128> I'm not porting system settings, I told them I refuse to ack an incompatible API change in our toolkit like that
 * Laney nods
<Laney> have a nice fight then :-)
<cyphermox> psivaa: I'll reboot the device now, need to check what's up
<psivaa> cyphermox: ack, hope tedg is ok with it
<tedg> cyphermox, That's fine.
<seb128> Laney, can you open a bug with the actual error? I'm still arguing but they want a bug report...
<Laney> okay
<seb128> Laney, seems like they are going to revert the incompatibility though (thanks Kaleo for bringing some sanity)
<Laney> it's just what you'd expect though: that the property is read only
<Laney> oh nice
<Laney> seb128: bug #1248646
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248646 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "API break: ItemSelector.enabled changed to read-only" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248646
<seb128> Laney, thanks, they are going to fix the incompatibility, we should wait on their changes to land to port our code, I'm not sure what is going to be renamed and how
<Laney> if they fix it then nothing ;-)
<seb128> Laney, well, the intend is still to deprecate the property so we should use the new one
<attente> bschaefer, hi
<kenvandine> :q
<bschaefer> attente, pong
<bschaefer> attente, hows the dbus stuff going?
<attente> bschaefer, i think it's make the grabs now
<attente> *making
<attente> so it's some progress at least
<attente> but i'm wondering why the action callbacks aren't getting called
<attente> can you explain a bit when the initiate and terminate callbacks are supposed to be called on an action?
<bschaefer> hmm from what i gather, and event comes in
<bschaefer> then it sends a ::handleEvent out to all the plugins first
<bschaefer> then it checks if any grabs are pressed
<bschaefer> IIRC
<attente> ok
<bschaefer> it should eventually get: PrivateScreen::triggerKeyPressBindings
<bschaefer> attente, we use to do this in umm
<bschaefer> the switcher, which i removed a bit ago, one problem to keep in mind
<attente> and for a KeyBinding action, do initiate and terminate represent like the key press and release? or they have some alternate meaning?
<bschaefer> if you even remove the key grab, it'll remove it form compiz entirely
<bschaefer> yeah
<bschaefer> so like Super+A when thats pressed, the state is Init
<bschaefer> then when you release it, it goes to Term
<attente> ah, ok
<bschaefer> attente, IIRC, once you get an init you have to remove it from the state
 * bschaefer needs to check unity
<attente> bschaefer, i think the state passed into the callback is an in parameter only, no?
<bschaefer> something like:
<bschaefer>   if (state & CompAction::StateInitKey)
<bschaefer>     action->setState(action->state() | CompAction::StateTermKey);
<bschaefer> its in the state
<bschaefer> param
<bschaefer> looking at: bool UnityScreen::ShowHudInitiate
<attente> oh. i see, you meant on the action itself
<bschaefer> well this is once you get the press :)
<bschaefer> so im jumping a bit to far ahead
<attente> right, no, this is useful info :)
<bschaefer> yeah, compiz is pretty ... confusing and i still don't understand most of it :)
<bschaefer> from what i see you have to do:
<bschaefer>     screen->addAction(action.get());
<bschaefer> add an action to the screen
<bschaefer> which the action will be a key binding
<bschaefer> attente, take a look at: void UnityScreen::CreateSuperNewAction
<bschaefer> there it sets up a keybinding, and adds that action to the screen
<attente> bschaefer, but it doesn't seem to ever set those callbacks
<bschaefer> hmm right
<bschaefer> attente, the only way i see the callbacks getting set up is through all those xml stuff we have
<bschaefer> like
<bschaefer>      optionSetAltTabForwardAllInitiate(boost::bind(&UnityScreen::altTabForwardAllInitiate, this, _1, _2, _3));
<bschaefer> which that is generated code in umm
<bschaefer> build/generated
<bschaefer> unityshell_options.h
<bschaefer> attente, so, you could possibly look in there to see how those hotkeys are getting set up
<bschaefer> and instead of using the xml file to generate it you can just code it in yourself somewhere else
<attente> bschaefer, yeah, i've tried setting callbacks manually on the actions in the key grabber
<bschaefer> attente, looking at: void UnityScreen::initAltTabNextWindow()
<attente> it's just a bit of a mystery why they're not being triggered..
<bschaefer> yeah...
<bschaefer> are you doing something like:
<bschaefer>       optionSetAltTabNextWindowTerminate(boost::bind(&UnityScreen::altTabTerminateCommon, this, _1, _2, _3));
<bschaefer> where you bind the callback?
<attente> i'm doing something like:
<attente> CompAction* action = new CompAction;
<attente> action->keyFromString(accelerator);
<attente> action->setInitiate(boost::bind(&GnomeKeyGrabber::Impl::InitiateAction, this, _1, _2, _3));
<attente> where InitiateAction is the method on the GnomeKeyGrabber::Impl class
<bschaefer> hmm I dont see that setInit used in unityshell else where
<bschaefer> attente, do you add that action tot he screen?
<bschaefer> screen->addAction()
<attente> bschaefer, yes
<attente> might be better if i do a paste instead :)
<attente> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6372383/
<bschaefer> hmm
<attente> when i log the addAction method in compiz, it seems to be working and returning true
<bschaefer> hmm possibly the hotkey is setup different from gnome -> compiz?
<attente> bschaefer, you mean in the parsing of the accelerator?
<bschaefer> yeah, im nost sure what format compiz takes in
<attente> i was just testing it with '<Shift>F11' and '<Shift>F12'
<bschaefer> hmm i think compiz needs +
<bschaefer> or x11?
<bschaefer> hmm I had to write a converter for ibus hotkeys
<bschaefer> try
<bschaefer> Shift+F11
<bschaefer> the conversion is pretty simple if that ends up working...
<attente> no luck with that either
<bschaefer> well shoot
<bschaefer> i do wish I understood this part of compiz a bit more :)
<attente> heh, don't we all :)
<bschaefer> attente, oo possibly:
<bschaefer>       action.setState (CompAction::StateInitKey);
<bschaefer> as if you don't set the state, it might just ignore that action
<attente> ooo
<bschaefer> (as it'll have an empty state)
<attente> ok, i'll try it
<bschaefer> im looking at the trigger code in compiz
<attente> hmm. no luck there either
<bschaefer> dammit
<attente> but something is happening here
<attente> when i press Shift+F8, more calls to addAction are happening
<attente> they happen only after Shift+F8 are grabbed
<attente> *is
<bschaefer> hmm
<attente> same for Shift+F11,F12
<bschaefer> more calls to addAction from your code?
<attente> i hope not..
 * attente checks
<bschaefer> try:  action.setState (CompAction::StateInitKey | CompAction::StateAutoGrab);
<bschaefer> theres a lot of addActions
<bschaefer> it seems...
<bschaefer> in unityshell.cpp
<attente> i wonder why pressing that keybinding would trigger more addAction calls
<bschaefer> well the workhorse in compiz is: PrivateScreen::triggerKeyPressBindings
<bschaefer> so something is happening there that either, could be finding your hotkeys
<bschaefer> and the callback is failing, or it can't find the hotkeys
<attente> ok, thanks for the guidance bschaefer
<attente> i should be able to manage from here
<bschaefer> attente, good luck, and sorry for the lack of hlep
<bschaefer> help*
<attente> no, you were very helpful, thanks!
<bschaefer> you could also look in: PrivateScreen::triggerStateNotifyBindings
<bschaefer> pretty much in compiz/src/event.cpp
<bschaefer> theres a bunch of stuff going through and checking all the bindings
<robert_ancell> mterry, still around?
<mterry> robert_ancell, yeah
<robert_ancell> mterry, was wondering if you saw https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/unity-greeter/end-session-dialog/+merge/193880
<mterry> robert_ancell, sure, I put it on my TODO then forgot about it.  Soryr
<mterry> robert_ancell, will look now
<robert_ancell> ta
<mterry> robert_ancell, looks good
<mterry> approved
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-07
<Mirv> morning
<cyphermox> Mirv: morning
<Mirv> cyphermox: hullo
<cyphermox> so, so far I haven't been able to find out what's wrong with phonesim -- if I disable it though, the lab devices seem to work properly
<cyphermox> so I think we'll need to involve pitti to look at what's up with phonesim or the related pieces
<pitti> cyphermox: define "wrong"?
 * Mirv switches computers to dedicate this one to test libunity
<cyphermox> pitti: unclear, sadly
<cyphermox> pitti: seems that now, the phones in the QA lab tend to get stuck with indicator-network/dbus/ofono in high CPU
<cyphermox> it happens about 30% of the time, apparently
<cyphermox> but you quickly notice indicator-network hiking up to 60%+ CPU for a while when phonesim gets restarted, and sometimes (that 30% I was telling about) on boot
<pitti> cyphermox: oh, is that still the "NetworkManager crashes in a loop" problem?
<cyphermox> I looked, but I can't make sense of the reason -- it's hard to figure out what's going on
<pitti> bug 1231964 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1231964 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager crashes in ofono plugin with phonesim [crashed with SIGSEGV in <unavailable> in ??()]" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231964
<cyphermox> pitti: NM doesn't seem to be crashed, but hold on
<cyphermox> that could be it, maybe
<pitti> I didn't notice this NM crash any more on my recent phone test runs, though
<pitti> when I reported the bug, I had to kill NM to make it not go crazy
<pitti> but I haven't done this any more for weeks
<cyphermox> this isn't a new bug though, so yeah
<pitti> but as NM didn't change, I guess we are missing something there
<cyphermox> well
<pitti> so I figure this only happens in some cases
<cyphermox> NM did change -- we're getting 0.9.8.4 now in the images
<pitti> cyphermox: oh, it's only happening since that update?
<pitti> I haven't tried .4 on the phones yet indeed
<cyphermox> but the ofono code certainly hasn't change between then and now
<pitti> cyphermox: is that on the latest trusty image? flashing now
<cyphermox> in theory yes
<cyphermox> I don' think you'd see indicator-network in high CPU though, in that case
<cyphermox> hold on, I can check if NM crashed on the mako used by psivaa as an example
<cyphermox> hmm
<cyphermox> no crash in /var/crash for NM
<cyphermox> and no segfault apparent in /var/log/syslog.
<pitti> ok, so it's not that then
<cyphermox> pitti: if you want to play with this stuff, you can use adb  -s 01ade38b552014d4 shell
<cyphermox> in the lab
<pitti> so 9 hours ago we got https://code.launchpad.net/~boiko/dialer-app/fix_ap_1.4/+merge/194205/comments/447936 which apparently at least succeeded
<cyphermox> ah?
<cyphermox> pitti: didrocks mentioned it was happening since Tuesday.
<pitti> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/3174/? has two crash reports, but they've always happened (and are known bugs)
<cyphermox> yeah, looks consistent with what I have on the device right now
<cyphermox> pitti: as one thing I noticed in recent proposed images was that I didn't have write access to /var/lib/dpkg even with a writable image, maybe this is breaking dbus in some way that upsets phonesim
<cyphermox> or phonesim itself
<cyphermox> nevermind, both are explicitly listed in mounts
<cyphermox> pitti: so here's the full list of changes from 1105, which would be relevant for what we're looking at, possibly: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
 * pitti taps foot waiting for flashing to finish
<cyphermox> hehe
<pitti> cyphermox: ok, flashed
<pitti> cyphermox: so, do you already see this happening when merely starting phonesim, or just when the tests run?
<cyphermox> yeah even just starting with-ofono-phonesim I see it happening
<pitti> i. e. should I do "sudo apt-get install ofono-phonesim-autostart"?
<pitti> ack
<cyphermox> yup
<pitti> 2394 B/s
<pitti> oh c'mon, ports.u.c.!
<pitti> cyphermox: so this image ("trusty" channel) still has NM 0.9.8.0-0ubuntu22
<pitti> I wonder where ogra_ takes his image from :)
<cyphermox> tursty-proposed :)
<cyphermox> trusty, I mean
<pitti> that's what I used
<cyphermox> the proposed one?
<pitti> cyphermox: started "sudo with-ofono-phonesim", indicator-network spins CPU at 70% indeed
<cyphermox> well at least now we're confirmed without doubt that it's not NM
<pitti> and on the phone, when I open it I see "Empty!"
<cyphermox> but it makes it that much less clear what's wrong
<pitti> strace says its spinning on a poll()/write() loop
<cyphermox> yeah, I was seeing the same
<abhishek_> I want to port Ubuntu Desktop on my Development board which is having Android
<cyphermox> isn't write failing?
<abhishek_> Can someone please helpme
<pitti> fd 11 is anon_inode:[eventfd], whatever that is
<cyphermox> or maybe it was a read what was failing with EAGAIN before
<pitti> cyphermox: no, write succeeds, read() is EAGAIN
<cyphermox> pitti: what process is that?
<pitti> and there is a really fast poll which times out
<pitti> cyphermox: indicator-network-service
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> ok
<pitti> $ pkill -f indicator-network-service; /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service
<pitti> ** (process:4256): ERROR **: network-menu.vala:202: Unable to get D-Bus bus name
<pitti> meh, it respawns too fast
<pitti> and that's why useful D-BUS services have a "--replace" option :)
<cyphermox> so hey, I couldn't see the ofono-phonesim.conf dbus config file in /etc/ofono, that's because of the mount in with-ofono-phonesim, right/
<abhishek_> ogra told me to create kernel zImage and initrd.img images ....and pack both these using abootimg utility .......I have created the zImage ....but I don't know how to create initrd.img. Please tell me how to create
<pitti> cyphermox: right, it's an unshared tmpfs overlay, to avoid modifying the system
<pitti> cyphermox: hm, I managed to start it in the foreground now, but its quiet now
<cyphermox> abhishek_: phone?
<abhishek_> I have IFC6410 development board which is having android
<abhishek_> I have android BSP available to me
<cyphermox> abhishek_: ogra_ should be around again soon, I'd think, you may want to ask him directly, and probably more in #ubuntu-touch if it's for touch
<abhishek_> I want to run Ubuntu on this board
<cyphermox> ok
<abhishek_> It's for Desktop
<abhishek_> cyphermox: Can you please give me some guidlines ....to create initrd.img ...
<abhishek_> cyphermox: I am using Kernel source from Android source .....
<cyphermox> abhishek_: that usually gets built along with teh zImage
<abhishek_> cyphermox: Please give me some guidelines ...this will help me alot
<pitti> cyphermox: got it to spin now in the foreground, but no output at all (except for a single "CRITICAL **: nm_device_get_iface: assertion 'NM_IS_DEVICE (device)' failed" which happened when I started phonesim)
<cyphermox> hrm
<cyphermox> pitti: spin as in do nothing useful?
<pitti> cyphermox: do you see polkitd spinning as well? (and apport coming up often)
<cyphermox> I had not noticed it, no
<pitti> ERROR: apport (pid 8040) Thu Nov  7 07:13:38 2013: called for pid 8036, signal 5, core limit 0
<pitti> ERROR: apport (pid 8040) Thu Nov  7 07:13:38 2013: executable: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service (command line "/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service")
<pitti> every 2 seconds
<cyphermox> let me look it up
<cyphermox> hey, that would explain a lot
<pitti> but that might be because I'm running it in the foreground now, and D-BUS activation repeatedly fails because the name is taken
<pitti> /usr/share/upstart/sessions/indicator-network.conf
<pitti> oh dear, why do we have to upstartify everything?
 * pitti yells "D-BUS activation!"
<abhishek_> cyphermox: I didn't found that .....I used update_initramfs to create initrd.img for my Laptop kernel (when I upgraded my laptop kernel) .......But, I don't know how to create the initrd.img for the kernel which is meant for some other board?
<pitti> cyphermox: yep, that stopped the apport/polkit loop :)
<pitti> cyphermox: ok, running under gdb in the foreground now
<pitti> but now it's quiet, of course
<cyphermox> abhishek_: I don't know. I think you should ask ogra_ directly
<cyphermox> pitti: yeah :/
<abhishek_> cyphermox: Ok ....thanks
<pitti> cyphermox: ok, reboot, and attaching gdb directly when it happens
<abhishek_> cyphermox: Is orgra around ?
<pitti> unlikely at this hour
<abhishek_> *ogra
<pitti> give it another hour or two
<abhishek_> ok
<cyphermox> oh!
<cyphermox> pitti: I got a g_source_destroy_internal() in gdb now
<cyphermox> ah, I get all kinds of things if I'm lucky enough
<pitti> yeah, all main loop/poll stuff
<cyphermox> actually, not so much
<pitti> aah
<pitti> $ pkill -f indicator-network-service; G_DBUS_DEBUG=all G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service
<cyphermox> for instance: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6374719/
<pitti> cyphermox: ^ that's the magic
<cyphermox> ah, wise!
<cyphermox> I've exceeded my efficiency time for tonight :)
<pitti> cyphermox: so you apparenlty can stop the spinning by merely killing the indicator, it'll respawn and behave
<cyphermox> no
<cyphermox> maybe sometimes it works but I did kill it a few times and got it back i nthe same state
<pitti> cyphermox: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/indicator-network-service.log.xz
<cyphermox> liek http://paste.ubuntu.com/6374736/ ?
<pitti> it loops in StartServiceByName()
<pitti> cyphermox: yes
<cyphermox> yeah
<pitti> The name org.ofono was not provided by any .service files
<pitti> !?
<cyphermox> well eventually it does find it though
<pitti> I let it spin for 20 seconds or so, ofono was well up and running at that time
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6374745/
<cyphermox> yes, it was
<cyphermox> something's wrong
<cyphermox> ^ ofono is up, indicator talks to it
<cyphermox> in the end it's still waiting for something though
<cyphermox> urgh
<cyphermox> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6374764/
<pitti> cyphermox: do you see anything interesting there?
<cyphermox> nevermind no
<cyphermox> can I let you keep looking into it?
<cyphermox> I really should get to bed by now, it's nearing up on 2am
<pitti> cyphermox: yeah, better go to bed; I've got some other fires to put out, but I guess it's not that desperately urgent?
<cyphermox> it's pretty crippling for the testing of the phone images, apparently
<cyphermox> but I have really no way to tell how urgent, better ask didrocks about that
<Mirv> cyphermox: would you be still up to pkg ack? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6374808/
<cyphermox> sure
<Mirv> (basically bzr 306 + 307 from https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/libunity/trunk)
<Mirv> we need it to unblock unity + ap + everything, I've now tested it
<cyphermox> yeah, it's fine. I just wish they made commit messages a bit more meaningful for changelogs than just "Make tracing easy"
<pitti> test_extras_LDFLAGS = -static !?
<pitti> the rest looks okay to me
<pitti> Mirv: ^
<Mirv> yes, I guess it's related to "Making tracing easy" but explanation would be nice
<Mirv> I wonder if mhr3 would be up soon
<Mirv> filed bug #1248840
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248840 in libunity "Make libunity test extras not link static or add a comment" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248840
<Mirv> pitti: does it hurt if it's in tests only, so not in published binary packages anywhere?
<pitti> Mirv: not sure, but why would you want it in the first place?
<pitti> it seems better to me to test the actual .so libs that you built
<Mirv> pitti: beyond me, my only guess it's related to that tracing one way or another. but I filed the bug to get an explanation committed.
<Mirv> pitti: it seems all the other tests already had the -static, this just adds it to the _extras too
<Mirv> pitti: since it's just harmonizing the Makefile to what was already being used, do you think the bug report is enough for now? I'd like to release it, and all tests ran fine.
<Mirv> it's blocking the autopilot 1.4 transition at the moment
<pitti> Mirv: oh yes, I do; thanks for filing
<Mirv> ok, thanks
<Mirv> it happened again! drwx------ 2 root root  80 marra  7 08:46 pulse (in /run/user/1000)
<Mirv> I wonder what's causing that, I need to chown it to make sound work again
<mlankhorst> morning btw :P
<Mirv> morning mlankhorst
<Mirv> mornign sil2100
<sil2100> Morning!
<sil2100> Mirv: hmmm, strange, but stuff didn't leave proposed yet from what I see?
<Mirv> sil2100: nothing strange about that, see landing plan
<sil2100> Mirv: Ken checked in my evening and he said that the last missing link blocking  stuff was unity-autopilot
<sil2100> Mirv: ah, libunity
<sil2100> Mirv: this Ken didn't notice, oh well
<Mirv> sil2100: yep, but it was not really
<sil2100> Mirv: thanks for publishing that o/
<Mirv> testing was hard, that's why it's already 3.5h since I started
<Mirv> cu2d was of no use etc
<didrocks> bonjour pitti! Ã§a va?
<pitti> bonjour didrocks ! Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<didrocks> pitti: on fait aller :)
<pitti> didrocks: c'est tard pour toi, c'est encore le jetlag ?
<didrocks> pitti: cyphermox told me you are looking at what is causing the network indicator to become crazy in the QA lab after boot?
<didrocks> pitti: oui, encore du jetlag :/
<didrocks> pitti: like, it would be an ofono-phonesim issue?
<pitti> didrocks: cyphermox and I took a stab at debugging this this morning, but we didn't yet get that far; have to put out some fires first
<pitti> didrocks: it seems indicator-network-service is spinning on trying to contact ofono over D-BUS
<didrocks> pitti: I'm still puzzled as http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes doesn't have any ofono/indicator changes
<didrocks> (and as told in my email, we try to revert network-manager)
<didrocks> pitti: do you think you'll have time to have a look later on? It's basically what is going to block us to publish some results
<pitti> didrocks: not sure where ogra_ took his image from, but I flashed from the "trusty" channel this morning, that got me the old network-manager for example, so I guess it's an older image
<pitti> didrocks: don't bother, it's not network-manager
<didrocks> pitti: trusty-proposed
<pitti> err, devel, devel-proposed, trusty, trusty-proposed..
<pitti> didrocks: but as I said, it's nothing to do with http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20131105.changes
<pitti> didrocks: where do you see this?
<didrocks> pitti: on the image containing those changes (in the QA lab only)
<pitti> didrocks: we ran a phonesim dialer-app test just about 10 hours ago on mako and maguro which succeeded
<didrocks> so image 12 and 13
<pitti> didrocks: I mean, which test does now fail which didn't before?
<didrocks> well, tests are impacted because indicator-network is taking > 63% of CPU
<didrocks> so a lot of AP fails
<didrocks> the system isn't idling
<pitti> didrocks: do we run all autopilot tests at the same time now, i. e. does the recent addition of ofono-phonesim-autostart to the dialer-app/messaging-app tests now cause all the other autopilot tests to run with that as well?
<pitti> didrocks: ah, we don't run the AP tests in separate runs, but all in one session?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, there is one boot
<didrocks> and running all AP tests for this app
<didrocks> pitti: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/13:20131105.1:20131031.1/4910/ubuntu-rssreader-app-autopilot/
<pitti> didrocks: that sounds a lot like that D-BUS spinning has been there all the time, it just didn't get exposed until now because ofonod wasn't restarted
<didrocks> for instance, you can see 3 AP failing
<didrocks> pitti: look at multiple top snapshot at boot: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/trusty-touch-mako-smoke-ubuntu-rssreader-app-autopilot/16/artifact/clientlogs/top_before.log/*view*/
<didrocks> 2197 phablet 20 0 253920 220080 3796 S 70.8 11.5 3:27.03 /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/indicator-network/indicator-network-service
<didrocks> (last run, 5 minutes after the phone booted up)
<pitti> didrocks: I need some ~ 10 more minutes to finish fixing the flood of autopkgtest failures, then I can go back to this
<didrocks> pitti: \o/ thanks a lot :)
<didrocks> pitti: the additiona of ofono-phonesim-autostart to some tests can explain that
<pitti> yes, as these restart ofono
<pitti> which probably is the thing that breaks the network-indicator
<didrocks> but once dialer-app tests are over
<didrocks> we reboot the device
<didrocks> waitâ¦ doing nothing
<didrocks> for 5 minutes
<didrocks> and then start rssreader tests
<pitti> yes, but ofono-phonesim-autostart is still installed I guess
<didrocks> will your mock influence?
<didrocks> right
<pitti> it's not a mock
<pitti> it's an actual ofono driver
<didrocks> ah ok ;)
<didrocks> and soâ¦ it restarts ofono at each boot
<pitti> so after boot, ofono will still restart, possibly after indicator-network
<didrocks> so, depending in which order we do the tests
<didrocks> as soon as we start one depending on ofono-phonesim-autostart and we install it, all the following tests are screwed
<didrocks> at least it *starts* to make sense to me
 * didrocks was soooo puzzled yesterday
<didrocks> we tried to reflash, only rerun some testsâ¦
<pitti> I didn't see this kind of failure in the MPs
<didrocks> something all went fine and suddenly, 100% strike
<pitti> and trust me, mako/maguro ran these tests dozens of  times :)
<pitti> but that was all in isolation, i. e. just the dialer or just the messaging tests
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, it's weird you didn't get it in the upstream merger
<didrocks> right
<pitti> so those didn't exhibit the indicator going crazy
<pitti> didrocks: well, possibly I did (even locally), but I didn't check top
<pitti> didrocks: it's perfectly reproducible on my phone, too
<didrocks> pitti: let me try to install it and confirm ;)
 * didrocks hugs pitti. So happy to have a start of explanation
<pitti> didrocks: install ofono-phonesim and xvfb, run "sudo start with-ofono-phonesim", wait a few secs
<didrocks> was really depressing yesterday
 * pitti hugs you back
<pitti> didrocks: but yes, these tests also expose lots of Mir and other crashes :)
<didrocks> pitti: nice stress test! ;)
<didrocks> ok, I'll let you go on the autopkgtests, just ping me if you need access to anything
<Laney> morning
<pitti> (which is why it took me so long to land them in the first place -- Mir crashes caused the MP to get rejected)
<didrocks> argh "fun" :)
<pitti> didrocks: nope, can debug on my device
<didrocks> pitti: ok, just keep us in touch. I think there is no real value that we run the tests before you get a fix
<pitti> didrocks: just uploaded systemd, postponing gvfs autopkgtest, other tests are green again, so looking now
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey Laney, seb128
<seb128> hey Laney pitti didrocks
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> didrocks: actually, much simpler than that
<pitti> didrocks: "sudo stop ofono; sudo start ofono", that makes it go crazy
<pitti> didrocks: which is actually a nice test, as it very much does need to cope with htat
<pitti> didrocks: so, nothing to do with my 13117 unshare -m tricks or so :)
<didrocks> pitti: confirmed!
<pitti> didrocks: want me to file a bug, or is there one already?
<didrocks> pitti: I don't think there is any
<seb128> didrocks, did you manage to resolve the tests issue yesterday?
<didrocks> pitti: hum, after a reboot, I can't get the indicator going crazy
<didrocks> seb128: we are discussing about it, there is a lead already
<seb128> didrocks, so it's not ido at the end?
<didrocks> seb128: can you try "sudo stop ofono; sudo start ofono"
<seb128> didrocks, on my desktop or on the device?
<didrocks> seb128: device
<seb128> sure, give me a min
<didrocks> pitti: grrrr, it's not that easy, worked the first time, but now, can't retrigger it. Is it reliable for you?
<seb128> didrocks, that seems to be fine ... but my device is not uptodate ... /me updates
 * pitti files bug 1248880
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248880 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "spends lots of time spinning on D-BUS when ofono restarts" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248880
<pitti> didrocks: fairly, yes
<pitti> didrocks: I'll add some extra information with d-bus debugging, hold on
<didrocks> pitti: tried to reboot twice, can't reproduce :/
<pitti> hm, I can reproduce it every time
<didrocks> pitti: do you have ofono-phonesim installed?
<pitti> didrocks: but sometimes it only lasts some 10 seconds until it reconnects, sometimes 3 minutes
<pitti> didrocks: yes, but I didn't run it (and I don't have -autostart installed)
<didrocks> still no luck :/
<seb128> pitti, do you have a sim in the device? does that make a difference?
<pitti> seb128: I do, and I don't know
<seb128> didrocks, do you have one?
<pitti> $ /usr/share/ofono/scripts/list-modems
<pitti> [ /ril_0 ]
<pitti>     Features = net sms gprs sim
<pitti> without a SIM, it could indeed make a difference
<pitti> that's perhaps why you see it better with phonesim
<pitti> as that always exports a device
<pitti> didrocks: updated the description accordingly
<pitti> I now have a case where it has spun for > 1 minute already
<didrocks> pitti: confirmed with popey
<pitti> it seems it's rolling dice and has an 1% chance of reconnecting or so
<didrocks> a SIM is needed
<pitti> didrocks: or phonesim :)
<pitti> didrocks: I updated the description to show how to reproduce without a SIM
<didrocks> pitti: ah, will try after that meeting, thanks!
<pitti> didrocks: also posted a link to the g_bus_watch_name() API docs which I suggest using
<mfisch> seb128: that dbus api for adding launcher icons works great, but in some circumstances the tooltip says "waiting to install" which is odd
<seb128> mfisch, seems like an unity bug, maybe check with bregma/Trevinho
<mfisch> seb128: yeah I found an old one in LP that I'm looking at
<pitti> didrocks: should I do anythign else with this bug? assign it to someone, etc?
<didrocks> pitti: no, I'll hunt for people :)
<didrocks> pitti: back from the meeting, let me try installing the various pieces
<didrocks> pitti: confirmed that with-ofono-phonesim, the indicator goes crazy
<didrocks> thanks a lot pitti!
<didrocks> :)
 * didrocks targets a victim now :)
 * seb128 is happy to be off didrocks' enemy list
<didrocks> seb128: until next time! :-)
 * seb128 is also happy that didrocks let him land the ido segfault fix yesterday
<seb128> didrocks, yeah ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: in fact, it's why it was so puzzling
<didrocks> seb128: depending on the test order
<didrocks> you install that package earlier or later
<didrocks> and then, the package stays installed
<didrocks> when you run other tests
<didrocks> that's why it was a "wth"
<seb128> right, that's making for fun debugging
<didrocks> and we didn't find any culpurit in the diff list
<didrocks> right
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: ido> oh yes, so am I, thanks for the fast fix!
<pitti> this was so annoying
<didrocks> pitti: well, thanks seb128 to fight for it :p
<seb128> pitti, thanks to larsu ;-)
 * seb128 hugs didrocks
 * pitti donne une accolade Ã  larsu
 * didrocks hugs seb128
 * pitti hugs seb128 and didrocks
<seb128> group hug ;-)
 * didrocks rehugs pitti
<larsu> :)
<pitti> didrocks: quick, assign larsu to the network indicator issue, too! he's good with gdbus!
 * pitti runs
<didrocks> larsu: I think you are the perfect target (the first to answer on IRC though)
<didrocks> larsu: seriously, interested in a somewhat-really-critical indicator-network-gdbus issue? ;)
<didrocks> it's a nice story, with a lot of praise for fixing it :)
<larsu> erm...
<larsu> no?!
 * larsu is afraid
<didrocks> larsu: bug #1248880, do you have any idea on how to debug it?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248880 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "spends lots of time spinning on D-BUS when ofono restarts" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248880
<larsu> (a) I always want pitti-level bug reports from now on
<larsu> (b) this looks really interesting :)
 * larsu goes for tea and has a more dtailed look later
<seb128> larsu, would you describe pitti's bugs the equivalent of mpt bugs, just applied to technical issues? ;-)
<didrocks> oh no, we spoiled larsu with high quality bug report :)
<didrocks> seb128: quick, let's edit it :)
<larsu> seb128: exactly
<pitti> * description changed to: *
<pitti> Itz broken! fix it!
<larsu> haha
<didrocks> ;)
 * pitti removes reproducer, analysis, and pointer to "you should use this" too, way too little fun otherwise!
 * larsu wonders how ServiceUnknown is send sometimes but then the service gets started sometimes
<pitti> larsu: it spins on ServiceUnknown for 5 to 500 seconds and eventually seems to hit the sweet spot and reconnect
<pitti> or these are just the 10 gazillion queued requests that it sends up in a tight loop
<pitti> g_bus_watch_name()!!
<larsu> ya, that sounds more like it
<larsu> ted is known for "oh, didn't work, let's try again immediately"
<larsu> so... indicator-network doesn't even build for me :-(
<seb128> larsu, wrong vala version?
<larsu> argh, I guess I need to be on trusty to get vala 0.22?
<seb128> larsu, no
<larsu> seb128: yes, they've just updated it in r312
<larsu> _without_ bumping the vala dep
 * larsu shakes fist at kenvandine!
<seb128> larsu, install valac-0.22
<seb128> larsu, then "update-alternatives --config valac"
<larsu> no such package
<seb128> larsu, that let you pick the default one
<seb128> of course
<seb128> larsu, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala-0.22/0.22.0-2/+build/5157282
<seb128> get the debs from there and dpkg -i
<seb128> they should install fine on saucy
<larsu> makes sense, thanks
<seb128> yw
<larsu> I guess I should jjust update this week
<larsu> also needs valac-0.22-vapi
<larsu> *sigh*, vala
<seb128> larsu, sorry
<seb128> larsu:
<seb128> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vala-0.22/0.22.0-2/+build/5157285
<seb128> larsu, ^ that has the arch all binaries
<larsu> thanks :)
<larsu> got it to build now
<Laney> I'd have just added trusty to sources.list and installed it from there :P
<seb128> I was going to suggest that next
<Laney> then probably forgotten to remove it and accidently upgraded to trusty
 * Laney did that at client sprint
<larsu> haha
<seb128> but that's usually more work that wget & dpkg in a deb
<larsu> Laney: is it stable enough to run?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> and you get click packages in the dash apparently
<Laney> MADNESS
<seb128> larsu, yeah, there was an annoying ido segfault but I got told it's fixed :p
 * larsu whistles
<Laney> infact it seems to prefer them over regular applications
<Laney> actually wtf
<Laney> I guess "Browser" is webbrowser-app which we recently seeded
<larsu> `sudo restart ofono` gives me "restart: Unknown instance:"
<pitti> oha, not running?
<pitti> larsu: try stop ofono; start ofono?
<Laney> I'm only getting new apps on the home lens now before typing anything
<larsu> pitti: stopping gives me the same error
 * larsu kills it
<larsu> ah, that fixes it
<larsu> apparently upstart didn't know ofono was running
<seb128> I guess the running one was not upstart managed
<seb128> upstart doesn't take ownership of random processes you run manually
<larsu> that makes sense, but I wonder how that could have happened
<seb128> is ofono dbus activated?
<larsu> oh! Maybe it wasn't running before and indicator-network dbus-activated it
<seb128> right
<larsu> and upstart doesn't know about this
<larsu> my favorite problem! :P
<seb128> I was going to say :p
<larsu> pitti: I must dissapoint you. I can't reproduce :-/
<pitti> larsu: do you have a SIM card?
<pitti> *cough* systemd! *cough*
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> larsu: if you don't have a SIM card, use the second reproducer in the description, which will fake one for yuou
<larsu> pitti: yeah sorry I just read your description in full :)
<Laney> jibel: did / can you forward your new autopkgtests to debian?
<larsu> oh yeah here we go
<pitti> Laney: oh, for what package?
<Laney> paramiko python-jsonschema
<Laney> are the two I see atm
<Laney> maybe more
<pitti> paramiko is collab-maint, happy to commit for you, jibel
<pitti> jsonschema is "openstack", that needs a bug
<Laney> oh, is that allowed?
<pitti> well, it's called "collab-maint"..
<pitti> I've been doing it many times, didn't get a complaint
<Laney> Interesting, I wouldn't complain myself
<larsu> hm, ofono doesn't even ship with a .service file
<larsu> StartServiceByName is just plain wrong
<pitti> and Debian's release team also annoucned that they want to enable autopkgtests, and provide quicker testing propagations for packages which have them, and encourage people to add them
<pitti> larsu: yeah, it's only handled by upstart ATM
<larsu> okay I'll remove that then
<pitti> larsu: hence, watching for dbus names to STFU while it's not running
<Laney> there's also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-dateutil/+bug/1247877 https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubuntu/trusty/python-mock/lp1248066_enable_autopkgtest/+merge/193888 https://code.launchpad.net/~jibel/ubuntu/trusty/python-imaging/lp1248743_enable_autopkgtest/+merge/194249
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1247877 in python-dateutil (Ubuntu) "Enable autopkgtest" [Medium,Triaged]
<Laney> -mock is DPMT, others are maintained by people (last one is doko)
<didrocks> just a long time I haven't done propaganda, but Dart 1.0 is coming! :)
<jibel> Laney, sure thing, will do.
<Laney> rocking
<jibel> Laney, is it preferable to submit to debian directly then request a sync or propose a patch in both distro?
<Laney> jibel: as you wish
<Laney> It might take a while for your patches to be uploaded
<pitti> Laney, jibel: if I commit stuff to collab-maint for an otherwise ubuntu-unmodified package, I usually do a -2git1 upload to ubuntu; that keeps autosync, but immediately gets us the change
<Laney> works for me
<larsu> pitti, didrocks: I've put up a branch that should fix your issue for now. Please let me know if it works.
<larsu> we'd need a lot more substantial fixes, but I don't feel comfortable making them right now
<larsu> as I'm not the maintainer of that project and have never read the code before
<didrocks> larsu: \o/
<didrocks> larsu: do you have an url?
<pitti> larsu: I don't see a branch on the bug?
<larsu> pitti: ya I was waiting for the push to complete while typing
<larsu> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-network/dont-activate-ofono
<larsu> it's the simplest-possible solution for now
<larsu> Wellark promised to look into it more deeply
<didrocks> larsu: do you think Wellark review that branch as well?
<pitti> larsu: oh, that won't retry in a tight loop?
<didrocks> to get it landed, image respin and so on?
<pitti> larsu: or it will, and just make it less CPU intense?
<larsu> pitti: it won't
<larsu> well, it doesn't for me
<pitti> nice
 * pitti hugs larsu
<seb128> larsu, yes, please, don't spend days fixing their codebase, just let that to them
<larsu> let's see and wait if this actually works :)
<larsu> seb128: ;)
<pitti> in any case, this patch is obviously correct as we don't have a .service; as for whether it is sufficient, I don't know
<larsu> didrocks: no need, this patch is definitely needed
<didrocks> nice work larsu!
<pitti> eventually it should still use g_bus_watch_name and connect/disconnect asynchronously without polling, but I guess that's for someone else to do :)
<larsu> pitti: yes. I was starting out doing that, but it was getting complicated quickly
<larsu> mr is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/indicator-network/dont-activate-ofono/+merge/194323
<GunnarHj> Laney: Saw your question about seeding of ttf-wqy-microhei. Guess it depends on why it's seeded. As you know, we have pkg_depends in any case.
<Laney> To have a chance of CJK working by default I guess
<GunnarHj> Laney: How does pkg_depends not make CJK work by default?
<Laney> You have to run l-s, right?
<Laney> It's for everyone to have a CJK font all the time
<GunnarHj> Laney: l-s is used for installing languages anyway. Not sure off-hand is you select a CJK language at installation, but have a feeling that the installer makes use of pgk_depends as well.
<Laney> I wouldn't get them on my en_GB installation though, even if it did
<GunnarHj> Laney: Aha, you mean when e.g. displaying a Chinese web page?
<Laney> Something like that
<Laney> Guessing as to why it's installed by default, it's obviously from way before my time
<GunnarHj> Laney: Possibly we should then start seeding fonts-droid instead. But I suppose we'd better let some time go to evaluate fonts-droid before messing with the seed. happyaron indicated yesterday that there might be a problem with libreoffice...
<Laney> And it's not in main, see my comment on the bug
<Laney> Not sure what that means for pkg_depends.
<Laney> It's probably alright, I bet other stuff there is in universe
<Laney> Still means that Chinese users will have microhei installed, which might be bad for them, not sure
<Laney> You can probably work with happyaron on this stuff now. Wasn't them most enjoyable project for me. :P
<Laney> s/them/the/
<GunnarHj> Laney: fonts-android is in main, and that source package carries fonts-droid nowadays.
<Laney> GunnarHj: run this: rmadison -S -s trusty fonts-android
<GunnarHj> Laney: Run it. :( Then, what does main mean at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-android? That it's in main in Debian?
<Laney> Yeah
<Laney> Look at the table below
<Laney> Probably not so hard to get it MIRed, mind you
<Laney> It's on touch and there's a plan to get all of that stuff in main eventually ...
<GunnarHj> Laney: See it; my mistake.
<Laney> So it'll happen at some point, but you could help make it happen sooner if you care to
<GunnarHj> Laney: No, it shouldn't be hard to get it MIRed, especially since fonts-droid is pulled when you install u-s-s. ;-)
<Laney> yeah, that's the touch thing
<Laney> it builds from universe currently
<GunnarHj> Laney: Will file a MIR application.
<Laney> nice, thanks
<happyaron> " Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. "
<Laney> f5 f5 f5
<seb128> Sweetshark, can you tell me if my comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1204449 is correct (e.g no sponsoring needed, that got uploaded just without listing the bug in the changelog)?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1204449 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Raring) "[SRU] LibreOffice 4.0.4 for Ubuntu 13.04 (raring)" [Low,Fix committed]
<didrocks> larsu: confirmed to work for me! nice ;)
<didrocks> thanks again
<larsu> didrocks: pleasure. Wellark is on it to fix this more robustly
<seb128> once again larsu is saving the day
<didrocks> yep ;)
<Sweetshark> seb128: checking
<Sweetshark> seb128: yes, comment is correct. Seems to be still in proposed though, so not setting to 'fix released' ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, right
<seb128> speaking of SRU verification
<seb128> Sweetshark, could you verify https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1207057? or should we ping jmp&co about it?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1207057 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "presentation causes system to hang" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<seb128> Sweetshark, the quantal SRU is waiting on 3 bugfix verifications as well
<Sweetshark> seb128: On my machine that wasnt completely reproducable from the start. I got a delay, no hang. The bugfix reduced the delay.
<seb128> Sweetshark, did we have anybody able to reproduce the hang?
<seb128> dobey, hey, could you review/sponsor the precise patch for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/926763 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 926763 in software-center (Ubuntu Precise) "Cannot install local packages (.deb files) without network connection (offline)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Sweetshark> seb128: bug 1246583 seems serious, but as per comment 9 seems to be not a LibreOffice issue. Any hints on whom to get involved?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1246583 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "All hotkeys of LibreOffice don't work in non-English keyboard layout [ubuntu 13.10]" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246583
<seb128> Sweetshark, attente
<seb128> hum
<seb128> attente, the good news is that this issue is not due to you ;-)
<seb128> same problem on f20 (/me just tested in a vm)
<seb128> Sweetshark, ^
<seb128> so not an appmenu/unity issue
<Sweetshark> seb128: urgh.
<Sweetshark> "also an issue with KingSoft" sounds like its "somewhere in the stack" not LO itself though ...
<seb128> yeah, could be gnome-settings-daemon or gtk2
<Sweetshark> time to arm the needle in haystack detector ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958300
<ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 958300 in libreoffice "Keyboard shortcuts doesn't work in Gnome if a non-US keyboard layout is active" [Unspecified,New]
<seb128> no useful info there though
<Sweetshark> seb128: if there are any quantal LibreOffice SRUs, we should just drop them unless there is a customer on them. IIRC quantal is EOL in two month and everyone caring about those fixes has switched to the LO ppa a long time ago anyway.
<Sweetshark> seb128: copy paste work on a german layout here ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, well the current one is in the queue, we could as well get it moved to updates
<seb128> Sweetshark, german is an ascii layout, C,V are on the same position than the english layout
<Laney> quantal has until april
<Sweetshark> Laney: ah, right. It was the last 'longer' one.
<Sweetshark> seb128: iteresting *cough*
<Sweetshark> seb128: I just added Bengali -- an yep: Copypaste doesnt work there. Then I tried to switch to a 'Guest session' ....
<seb128> Sweetshark, I tried with Russian
<seb128> Sweetshark, I can confirm it doesn't work
<Sweetshark> ... which repeatedly popped up 'IBus-Update' message on an otherwise black screen with a classic 1990 X11 cursor. I only got out of that with ctrl-alt-f2 and killing the second lightdm process.
<seb128> Sweetshark, weird
<seb128> Sweetshark, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55585
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 55585 in UI "Should check all XKB group indexes when matching key events for accelerators and mnemonics" [Normal,Needinfo]
<Sweetshark> seb128: so a XFCE Guest session with Bengali does copy-paste as expected, so this is somewhere in the gnome3 stack ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, right, see the libreoffice bug report
<seb128> Sweetshark, it describes the issue
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep
<seb128> Sweetshark, upstream GNOME doesn't plan to change their stuff, their position is that libreoffice needs to be fixed
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm still pondering if we should rollback to the old way to handle keyboards or if we should try to push thing forward before the LTS
<attente> seb128, yeah, i'm not sure what in the gnome stack could have caused that issue
<seb128> attente, not your fault in any case
<seb128> attente, good morning btw ;-)
<seb128> attente, the first comment on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55585 describes it well
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 55585 in UI "Should check all XKB group indexes when matching key events for accelerators and mnemonics" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<attente> Sweetshark, i wonder how it was working in libreoffice before, do you know?
<attente> seb128, good afternoon :)
<seb128> attente, read the first comment on that bug
<seb128> attente, in the old GNOME world xkb groups were handled differently
<attente> oh... right
<dobey> seb128: i'll try to look at it today
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<Laney> seb128: do you think we need a session on gnome plans to assign work items or do people generally know what to do?
<Laney> (or did you make one already?)
<seb128> Laney, I'm not sure there is much to discuss
<Laney> turning it into work items
<seb128> we would need everybody that is going to do work to join at the same time
<seb128> my bet is that e.g robert_ancell is not going to wake up at 4am for that
<seb128> we should have a blueprint in any case
<seb128> I'm just not sure it's worth a session
<Laney> okay, if it is going to be assigned another way
<seb128> Laney, I would suggest "create a blueprint -> dump a list of everything we know about that needs done in it -> chase people to grab workitems -> get me to assign the remaining one"
<seb128> or something along those lines
<seb128> Laney, though there is not so much desktop work, stuff like "bring back menus" are already tracked through bugs
<Laney> is that enough?
<Laney> if so, fine, maybe we shouldn't bother
<seb128> do you have example of work you want lined up?
<seb128> it feels we already discussed what to update and strategy etc
<seb128> cf my email to the desktop list
<Laney> I think we know what the plan is, but aren't tracking the work to achieve it
<seb128> it feels like a session would turn up into a "not a lot to discuss" or in "everybody lists their pet bugs"
<seb128> hum, right
<seb128> Laney, hum, assuming that times are UTC ones, it means sessions are from 2am to 8am for .au guys
<seb128> Laney, I need to check with robert_ancell if he can/want to me online for a desktop workitems session
<Laney> Can just fill in a BP outside of UDS
<seb128> right
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, do you still look at firefox issues? ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1200272 is being worked/if it's an hunspell or firefox issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1200272 in firefox (Ubuntu) "firefox crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur, there are some apparmor changes in the sponsoring queue, do you guys plan to handle those? (some are debdiffs from Tyler)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i haven't looked at a firefox issue for ages ;)
<mdeslaur> seb128: yeah, we'll handle those, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, should I unsubscribe sponsors so others don't spend time reviewing?
<mdeslaur> seb128: sure
<mdeslaur> seb128: could you give me the bug # so we don't drop them though?
<seb128> mdeslaur, sure
<seb128> mdeslaur, https://code.launchpad.net/~cmiller/ubuntu/trusty/apparmor/chromium-new-sandbox-name/+merge/193657 is one
<seb128> mdeslaur, seems like we should get that one in, the current chromium already has the rename ... does it mean the apparmor profile is unactive?
<seb128> mdeslaur, bug #1231778 is on the with the diffs from Tyler
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1231778 in AppArmor "wifi not working on Saucy Salamander" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231778
<Laney> bah
<Laney> wayland testsuite fails
<Laney> tjaalton: you like wayland? fancy looking at the updates? ;-)
<seb128> timchen119, hey, thanks for the notify-osd work!
<mdeslaur> seb128: thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, thank you for looking at those ;-)
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping :)
<kenvandine> sil2100, pong
<tjaalton> Laney: alrighty
<Laney> tjaalton: cool (blocks new gtk)
<Laney> thanks
<tjaalton> Laney: I guess wayland could be synced
<tjaalton> pushed the Conflicts/Replaces diff to debian earlier, 1.3.0-1 has it
<Laney> tjaalton: oh, in cursor0 too?
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<tjaalton> Laney: yup
<Laney> tjaalton: whatever you think is right
<tjaalton> Laney: synced
<Laney> will need weston too to migrate to trusty
<Laney> IIRC
<tjaalton> weston needs cairo-gl, which then explodes on nvidia
<tjaalton> probably could just disable building weston-screensaver instead
<tjaalton> but wayland should be fine without weston
<Laney> libwayland-server0 Breaks: weston (<< 1.2.0)
<tjaalton> ah yes
<tjaalton> stupid unity doesn't know meld is open
<tjaalton> doesn't look like it's easy to disable wscreensaver, it's everywhere
<seb128> drop weston from the archive?
<tjaalton> until cairo-gl works, maybe
<Laney> how come debian can enable it?
<dpm> tedg, there's a discussion going on on #ubuntu-app-devel on how upstart could deal with fat packages containing binaries for different architectures. If you're around, would you mind joining in? thanks!
<tjaalton> Laney: we've disabled cairo-gl in cairo
<Laney> tjaalton: remoing/changing the --with-cairo= line isn't enough?
<tjaalton> because the nvidia blob doesn't like it
<tjaalton> oh..
<tjaalton> I'll try
<tjaalton> was grepping the wrong thing
<Laney> how can you tell if it's bad?
<Laney> just try it on nvidia?
<tjaalton> yes, every gl client will use a lot of extra memory
<Laney> seems to build without that and removing -screensaver from .install
<Laney> go for it if that's good enough for you
<happyaron> seb128: hi
<seb128> happyaron, hey
<happyaron> seb128: what's up?
<tjaalton> Laney: yeah good enough for me
<seb128> happyaron, I'm trying to figure what to do with the keyboard situation for the LTS
<Laney> tjaalton: right, feel free to upload then
<Laney> should unblock gtk
<seb128> happyaron, do you know how happy were IMs users with the old way of doing things, e.g having layouts and IMs being separate concepts rather than grouped like GNOME did (and we us now)?
<happyaron> seb128: actually we don't like the current way in any extent, and very few people like what Windows8 do (super+space)
<seb128> happyaron, I'm trying to decide on whetever we should push forward or rollback for the LTS and decide the old way is the best we can do with xorg
<seb128> happyaron, then have a better go at solving the issue with unity8/mir
<seb128> happyaron, how often do you guys change layouts? e.g in the old world, did you interact with the layouts or only directly with ibus/fcitx?
<happyaron> seb128: only ibus/fcitx, and it handles layout
<seb128> happyaron, I'm not even sure at this point what the GNOME guys are trying to solve with the new design...
<seb128> if the old ibus way was handling layouts as well
<happyaron> seb128: ibus's xkb integration isn't good, and they wish to have the feature at that time, so they come up with current solution
<happyaron> ibus-xkbc is almost abandoned upstream, and there are still compatibility issues with pure xkb settings
<seb128> happyaron, what about fcitx?
<happyaron> fcitx has the support in the main upstream project, and has some compatibility issues too.
<seb128> happyaron, but do you need xkb integration? or do you just use e.g qwerty-english or qwerty+pinyin
<happyaron> no, I don't.
<seb128> I mean typically
<seb128> so those are basically 2 different usecases
<seb128> layouts are for people who e.g type russian or english and change between those
<happyaron> I think few people need it, and when they really need it they could already have their own xkb configs.
<seb128> IMs are for people who use 1 layout but need to change the way composition works?
<happyaron> yes
<happyaron> for example I need to input Chinese characters, but I have many ways inputing it, use PinYin or Wubi, I need switch between them as I wish
<happyaron> and I also need to switch to English keyboard at times to input alphabets.
<seb128> happyaron, well, you are always on qwerty in all those cases though?
<happyaron> yes
<seb128> happyaron, e.g typically you would only need to super-space with ibus
<seb128> ok
<seb128> happyaron, so it seems you +1 for the old way, e.g reverting would be an issue for you
<seb128> wouldn't*
<seb128> (sorry)
<happyaron> typically ctrl+space, super-space is wired...
<seb128> yeah, I just mean $favorite_keys
<happyaron> :)
<seb128> happyaron, great
<happyaron> thanks
<seb128> I'm going to start some list discussions on reverting or going forward and put a vUDS session about it
<happyaron> great
<colonelqubit> tkamppeter_: Bjoern (Sweeetshark) mentioned that you might be able to help LibreOffice triage a couple of printing bugs
<colonelqubit> (We don't have access to particular printing hardware)
 * didrocks waves good evening, see you on Tuesday!
<seb128> sil2100, cyphermox: can we get a 13.10 SRU for indicator-application (there is 1 commit in there and it fixes a frequently reported issued)?
<cyphermox> seb128: sure, I'll kick it off now
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks
<cyphermox> I'm not staying around though, I'm just on IRC by accident :)
<seb128> cyphermox, have fun!
<cyphermox> seb128: where you editing the bug?
<cyphermox> seb128: build is running now, I'll check back on it later to push it to proposed
<seb128> cyphermox, no I didn't, sorry was away for exercise, I can do it if you want, testcase is basically "watch if e.u.c reports stop coming"
<bschaefer> attente, hey, were you able to get any callbacks from compiz?
<attente> bschaefer, still no, but it's down to a modifier checking problem
<bschaefer> attente, well hopefully thats good, so compiz is getting the action and everything? Just failing on a modifier not being set?
<attente> compiz gets the action, compiz does the grab
<attente> when time comes to check for the action which matches the event, it flops
<attente> it seems to be dependent on what keybinding i provide too
<bschaefer> hmm interesting, i've never actually had to follow that code before...is under one of the trigger* functions?
<attente> yeah, i added some fprintfs to PrivateScreen::triggerKeyPressBindings
<attente> in some cases like <Shift>F8, it gets a matching keycode, but the modifiers don't match
<bschaefer> when you say it seems to be dependent on what keybinding you provide, what do you mean by that i suppose?
<attente> in other cases, like <Control>p, it doesn't seem to match keycodes properly
<bschaefer> hmm strange
<bschaefer> what if you took an already working hot key
<bschaefer> and tried use that?
<bschaefer> such as Alt+Tab
<bschaefer> hmm
<bschaefer> attente, so its never returning true here:       if (match && eventManager.triggerPress (action, state, arguments))
<bschaefer> ?
<bschaefer> attente, also, try again Shift+F8, cause you added in the init state after you tried that
<attente> bschaefer, basically match is never even true
 * bschaefer looks for how it parses the key bindings
<bschaefer> attente, looking at how its parsed in...i think you may be adding the hot key in, incorrectly
<bschaefer>     binding.fromString(impl::CreateActionString(key, shortcut, flag));
<bschaefer> something like that, is whats done that i see in unityshell.cpp
<bschaefer> attente, and looking at your code, you just use: action->keyFromString(accelerator);
<bschaefer> my guess is something is not producing the correct tokens for compiz to check
<bschaefer> attente, a place to check would be in compiz/src/action.cpp::CompAction::KeyBinding::fromString (const CompString &str)
<attente> bschaefer, looking at that function, it seems to be going by '<Modifier><Modifier>x_keysym_name'
<bschaefer> attente, hmm well possibly try to use impl::CreateActionString(key, shortcut, flag)
<bschaefer> to generate a string then pass it to binding.fromString()
<bschaefer> attente, as it seems add that its getting wrong keycodes/keysyms...
<attente> bschaefer, for it to make the grabs properly, it must've parsed them correctly, no?
<bschaefer> attente, hmm how were you testing if the grabs were set up properly?
<bschaefer> attente, and yes that would hmmm
<bschaefer> attente, so the keycode from the current event isnt matching up with the keygrab?
<attente> PrivateScreen::triggerKeyPressBindings was getting called only after i added the action to the screen
<bschaefer> attente, hmm IIRC triggerKeyPressBindings is done on all keypresses...from XNextEvent...
<bschaefer> line 846 in event.cpp
<bschaefer> but if theres not keygrab set it i don't think the event would even get there hmm
<attente> bschaefer, doesn't seem to be the case
<attente> i can press most key combinations, and that doesn't get called
<bschaefer> yeah, the grab has to be there, so yeah you're right that the grab is being set hmm
<attente> so, on line 420 in event.cpp
<attente> bindMods is 8
<attente> sorry, 0x8
<attente> event->state is 0x11
<attente> modMask is 0x20000ed
<attente> this is for '<Shift>F8'
<attente> as far as i can tell, event->state is correct
<bschaefer> hmm
<bschaefer> attente, well
<bschaefer> bindMods wont be equal
<bschaefer> attente, what happens when you press say, alt+tab?
<bschaefer> what is modMods, bindMods?
<bschaefer> or something similar that compiz already has set up
<attente> for alt+tab, i get 0x8 0x18 and 0x20000ed respectively, which matches because of the mask
<bschaefer> yeah
<bschaefer> attente, possibly change a hot key in unity shell plugin in ccsm to but like shift+F7
<bschaefer> that way you can get the mod and mask is getting to through there, our it'll fail
<bschaefer> and then its not your fault but compizs
<bschaefer> but I just set up Shift+F1, and it seems to work hmm
<attente> if i try '<Control>n', then it doesn't even seem to match the keycode
<attente> ok, i might be being stupid here, let me check something
<bschaefer> attente, well i mean change a hotkey in ccsm to that of a similar hot key you are trying to match up (Such as changing Alt+Tab to Shift+F7)
<attente> bschaefer, where's the Alt+Tab option?
<attente> i can't seem to find it
<bschaefer> attente, under ccsm-> Unity Shell Plugin -> Switcher
<attente> bschaefer, ok, so
<bschaefer> that way you can see what the correct values should be
<attente> that worked
<attente> i set Shift+F12 for the switcher
<attente> the correct mods are the same
<bschaefer> really?
<attente> 8 18 20000ed
<bschaefer> o that 18 part is different though
<attente> yeah, so something is clearly wrong on my side
<bschaefer> you said
<bschaefer>  event->state is 0x11, that should 0x18
<attente> the 18 is fine since the 1 gets masked out
<bschaefer> so the state is getting set to an incorrect value
<attente> right, when ccsm does it, it works
<attente> when i try to do it manually, it doesn't
<bschaefer> yeah, hmm i wonder where that state gets set
<attente> the state is direct from the XEvent
<attente> oh..
<attente> weird..
<attente> because i thought 0x11 was correct
<bschaefer> yeah...why is it 0x11 for you?
<attente> and 0x8 was wrong
<bschaefer> and 0x18 for ccsm?
<attente> whoops, sorry
<attente> i read the wrong line
<attente> Shift+F12 via ccsm is 1 11 20000ed
<bschaefer> oo
<attente> that makes more sense
<bschaefer> yeah
<bschaefer> so the bindMods for you is incorrect
<attente> yep
<attente> i'll see what ccsm is using for the string
<bschaefer> take a look at this: action->key ().modifiers ()
<bschaefer> print that out for your shift+f8 and ccsms shift+f12
<bschaefer> as im  guessing the value of that is whats inconsistent between the 2 cases
<attente> bschaefer, sorry i'm taking so long, i'm getting overwhelmed with the debug output
<bschaefer> attente, o no worries
<bschaefer> attente, compiz is never easy to dig through, same with the x event loop
<bschaefer> plus i've never actually dug through this part of compiz, so im just talking a bunch
<attente> bschaefer, one thing i can say is that ccsm is not doing it by parsing a CompString
<bschaefer> hmm let me take a look at the generated code
<attente> oh man. i have no idea what's going on here, lol
<bschaefer> haha, yeah neither do i :)
<bschaefer> they seem to be:     action.keyFromString ("<Alt>Tab");
<bschaefer> those are the default values though
<bschaefer> attente, did you set this state:     state = CompAction::StateAutoGrab;?
<attente> bschaefer, no, what does it do?
<bschaefer> not sure, but all those hotkeys have it being set
<bschaefer> they are setting StateAutoGrab | StateInitKey
<bschaefer> soo possibly that changes how its being grabbed, which could cause a different bindMod?
<attente> action->key ().modifiers () is 0x1 for the ccsm case, 0x10000 for our case
<attente> going to see what that StateAutoGrab does now
<bschaefer> hmm i wonder why then its getting a different bindMod
<attente> yeah, no effect there
<bschaefer> attente, well a funny thing to do would be, detect 0x10000, and change it to 0x1
<bschaefer> to confirm thats the only problem, and you should (hopefully) get a callback
<bschaefer> now i wonder why .modifers is 1 for ccsm and 65536 for our case
<bschaefer> 65536 seems like a normal modifier...
<attente> funny thing is, if i do an alt+`, the action->key ().modifiers () is also 0x10000
<bschaefer> haha, try alt+f8
<bschaefer> i wonder if its getting alt?
<bschaefer> instead of a shift
<attente> oh. that already binds to something
<attente> window resizing
<bschaefer> but you get the same value?
<attente> yes
<GunnarHj> attente: Hi!
<attente> GunnarHj, hello!
<bschaefer> very strange...now why is it turning your <Shift>F8 to <Alt>F8
<GunnarHj> attente: Do you think that the suggestion in bug 1248349 can help fix the language list issue in u-s-s?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1248349 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "[language] Confusing list of display language options" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1248349
<attente> bschaefer, can't seem to grab alt+f9, very weird problem indeed
<attente> GunnarHj, sorry, taking a look now
<attente> GunnarHj, ah
<seb128> GunnarHj, didn't Laney said it should already be fixed in trunk?
<attente> actually we had this discussion before
<Laney> it's different in trunk
<Laney> don't know if you'd call it fixed
<Laney> pitti and attente discussed how to get the list some weeks ago
<seb128> well, we reduced the variants
<attente> the problem is u-s-s also uses that Display Languages for setting the formats locale as well
<seb128> it was crazy before
<seb128> we still have some though
<GunnarHj> seb128: When testing a build of the trunk, it got worse (on the desktop).
<seb128> GunnarHj, you clearly didn't test before
<seb128> we had like every language and variant existing in the world earlier
<seb128> it got better for sure ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: True, I didn't. But it still seems to be pretty bad.
<seb128> it's quite ok
<seb128> not great, but good enough (well at least usable)
<GunnarHj> seb128: What's wrong with doing it right?
<bschaefer> attente, indeed very strange...
<GunnarHj> seb128: You triaged the bug, btw. ;-)
<seb128> GunnarHj, nothing, I agree it could be better, I just disagree with the way you undermine the work which has been currently done
<Laney> I think the way l-s displays the options is nicer
<seb128> it is
<Laney> but our way isn't that bad
<GunnarHj> seb128: I really don't try to undermine anything! Just trying to help improve.
<Laney> that's Language (Variant) [don't know the proper terms]
<seb128> GunnarHj, so focus on what should be done rather than trying to show how buggy you find the current solution ;-)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Of course.
<GunnarHj> attente: Do you mean that languages and regional formats are not set separately?
<attente> GunnarHj, yes
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText#phone
<GunnarHj> Laney: tnx
<Laney> It doesn't say that, but there's only one option for language so it's used to set both
<seb128> I don't think it makes much sense to have different options
<GunnarHj> attente: Well, in that case a simple 'locale -a' based list seems to be appropriate. I thought its only purpose was to select the display language, which is why I proposed the language-tools script.
<seb128> the current list seems a bit too verbose
<Laney> Display language might not be the best title in that case
<attente> GunnarHj, thanks
<seb128> like it has English-Ireland
<seb128> how is that different from English?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Agree that the title should be changed.
<Laney> Probably in formatting
<attente> does ireland use different formats?
<seb128> I don't know
<seb128> Laney might know
<Laney> haha
<Laney> I do not
<seb128> :/
<seb128> we need cjwatson :p
<seb128> or Riddell
<attente> i guess they don't like being grouped with the UK...
<Laney> Some people might have a problem being force to set en_GB though
<Laney> ...
<seb128> Laney, you UK guys should know about the different between your countries :p
<Laney> Ireland isn't in the UK
<attente> yeah. i know :P
<Laney> So yeah, it does make sense
<Laney> I think it'd look a bit less jumbly if we used the same scheme as l-s
<seb128> Laney, North Ireland is no?
<Laney> that's probably not en_IE
<GunnarHj> seb128: Just to clarify: Considering that it's considered sensible to distinguish between display language and formats on the desktop, why isn't that true for the phone?
<seb128> GunnarHj, what are win8, iOS, android doing in that regard?
<seb128> GunnarHj, phone tend to be less "geeky" than computer and we can do with some simplification there
<GunnarHj> seb128: I don't own a phone, so I have no idea. ;-)
<seb128> my android (samsung) seems similar to what we have
<seb128> english
<seb128> - australia
<seb128> - ireland
<seb128> - new zealand
<seb128> - south africa
<seb128> etc
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok.
<GunnarHj> Guess I'm a little biased on this matter...
<Laney> yeah that's pretty alright
<Laney> It's basically saying that you can't choose them separately
<Laney> I spy a ubuntu-tweak-tool on the horizon
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I mean all those are all options
<Laney> yep
<Laney> I mean formats and language
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, "format" always seemed weird to me
<seb128> I'm not sure what format people tweak
<GunnarHj> Laney: And if that's the design decision, I'd better close the bug.
<seb128> I never felt the need to tweak how numbers are displayed or such
<attente> we could've just said locale i suppose
<Laney> I dunno
<Laney> Maybe if you live in another country?
<Laney> Hard to guess what people use things for
<seb128> GunnarHj, I'm not sure we have enough input from device to device
<seb128> I'm not even clear what we are missing with the current approach
<seb128> or what it gives us over the "list only countries"
<GunnarHj> seb128: What we miss is an opportunity for people who lives in one country, but prefer the display language of some other country, to set date/time, number, currency etc. formats of their site.
<seb128> GunnarHj, there is always a balance between standard needs and UI complexity
<seb128> not sure how common those options are on a phone
<GunnarHj> seb128: Indeed. Not saying that there is a right solution here.
<seb128> they are useful on a desktop, but that's a more powerful/work oriented environment
<GunnarHj> seb128: Agreed.
<seb128> I think we should keep the bug and get input from mpt/design
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ok. Then I won't close it.
<seb128> thanks
<tkamppeter> colonelqubit, yes, I could help you with testing. Please give me links to the bug reports.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-11-08
<pitti> Good morning
<abhishek_> ricotz: I want to run Ubuntu on my Android board. I have IFC6410 development board
<abhishek_> ricotz: I have used the kernel in the Android source and created the ubuntu *.deb packages
<abhishek_> ricotz: Can you please help me?
<ricotz> abhishek_, sorry, i don't have an armhf setup here
<abhishek_> ricotz: Can you please give me some guildlines
<ricotz> abhishek_, obviously you already got some hints here https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg04938.html
<ricotz> abhishek_, there is also an #ubuntu-touch channel for those specifics
<abhishek_> ricotz: I don't want to run ubuntu touch....I want to run Ubuntu desktop on this board
<abhishek_> ricotz: The ubuntu as we usually see on our desktop or laptop machines
<ricotz> i see
<ricotz> and the stock kernel isn't working for you?
<abhishek_> ricotz: I have extracted the boot.img image of the Android ...and found that it has zImage (kernel ) and ramdisk ....ramdisk contains init scripts which actually initiallizes the board
<abhishek_> ricotz: I must be having some similar kind of ramdisk to initializes my board .....where to create or get this ramdisk
<abhishek_> ricotz: I have created the zImage ...and linux-image.deb and linux-headers.deb packages
<abhishek_> ricotz: I have extracted linux-image.deb package and saw that it contains all the *.ko files
<ricotz> abhishek_, as said, i don't have such a setup here, so i am not that experienced in that regard
<abhishek_> ricotz: I must pack the zImage with the ramdisk to create the boot.img image which I can load in the boot sector of the device .......my problem is how to create the ramdisk
<abhishek_> ricotz: ok ...from where should I get the help ???
<ricotz> abhishek_, if your board is quite popular there is for sure some guide somewhere, maybe for debian which might be similar
<abhishek_> ricotz: The board is new ...I think I am the first one which is doing this for this board
<Sweetshark> Moin!
<happyaron> seb128: I changed the shortcut to Ctrl-space in ibus, and uploaded to trusty for now. so in unity/gnome super-space works, and in kde ctrl-space works. Do you think this is acceptable?
<seb128> happyaron, hey, hum ... didn't you say the other day that super-space wasn't working for you, even after changing ibus?
<happyaron> it works for me, while I need to clean up configs in my home dir
<happyaron> rm -rf ~.*; and re-login
<happyaron> sorry, rm -rf ~/.*
<Laney> morning
<seb128> weird, it worked for me without that
<seb128> happyaron, in any the change makes sense, so +1
<seb128> Laney, hey
<seb128> good morning desktopers ;-)
<happyaron> seb128: so push the same change as SRU to saucy?
<seb128> yes, I guess it makes sense
<happyaron> ok, will do that
<happyaron> seb128: and it's wired that the ibus-ui-gtk3 crash does not appear in unity anymore after installing all the SRUs, but appear again after I installed kubuntu-desktop, clear configs, and login to KDE.
<seb128> so maybe it's just an issue on clear config?
<seb128> did you figure out if that one is the same that I assigned to you on launchpad?
<happyaron> seems yes, but I still don't know the cause.
<happyaron> after clearing configs, login to unity does not have such crash
<happyaron> but clear configs then login to KDE will trigger the crash.
<seb128> it happens under unity sometimes
<seb128> I had it in guest sessions
<happyaron> ok
<happyaron> will dig more into it.
<seb128> though not recently
<seb128> maybe gsd does some config init that workaround it or something
<seb128> did you try to just rm the config and restart ibus manually in a session?
<happyaron> trying
<happyaron> no crash in unity
<happyaron> and no crash in KDE, :-/
<seb128> happyaron, was it ibus-ui-gtk that was hitting the bug for you?
<happyaron> yes
<abhishek_> happyaron: I want to create the initramfs for the ARM board from my x86 machine ? ...
<abhishek_> happyaron: Can you please help me
<happyaron> abhishek_: I'm not familiar with doing that...
<seb128> happyaron, valgrind lists that issue, not sure if that can lead to the bug
<seb128> ==7168== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
<seb128> ==7168==    at 0x4381A97: gtk_tray_icon_get_colors_property (gtktrayicon-x11.c:560)
<seb128> ==7168==    by 0x438233A: gtk_tray_icon_update_manager_window (gtktrayicon-x11.c:859)
<seb128> ==7168==    by 0x438290F: gtk_tray_icon_constructed (gtktrayicon-x11.c:266)
<abhishek_> happyaron: ok ....I am not getting help ....can you please let me know who can help me?
<happyaron> abhishek_: sorry, dunno...
<happyaron> seb128: I'll try later, going for dinner now.
<seb128> happyaron, enjoy!
<seb128> mvo, hey, do you have any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1024590 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1024590 in update-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in _on_download_changed(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'get_value'" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Sweetshark> seb128: saw the verification-failed on that presentation on 3.5.7-0ubuntu5, commented on it -- verification of a perfomance issue is tricky business, it seems: how much faster does it have to be to be verified ....
<larsu> Laney: are we running the glib tests installed? I'm thinking about switching the gtk tests over, because they're causing trouble when running in the build dir
<larsu> I'm wondering how that would work in debian-land
<Laney> both at build and install time
<larsu> oh, the same tests?
<larsu> madness
<Laney> well, make check and then installed tests
<Laney> but it works out to be the same thing
<Laney> so you know the thing you just built works, and that it keeps working
<larsu> right, but this won't fix my problem for me then :)
<larsu> I guess I'll just fix the non-installed case and switch later
<Laney> yeah, make check is supposed to keep on working :P
<Laney> in practice people have been getting one or the other wrong
<larsu> right
<larsu> I was just looking for the easy way out
<Laney> is it an actual test failure or some problem with adding the installed test support?
<larsu> it's a failure because it accesses installed settings schemas
<larsu> it fails when you don't have the new keys
<larsu> or no gtk installed
 * Laney nods
 * walters thinks it's worth the pain =)
<larsu> walters: installed tests, you mean?
<walters> yeah
<larsu> installed tests work in this case. It's in-tree make check that fails
<larsu> otherwise I totally agree of course ;)
<walters> this case is in-tree but srcdir != builddir?
<larsu> yes, but that shouldn't matter. It's never accessing the right schemas
<larsu> unless they're installed
<walters> ah...right
<walters> basically that never gets tested due to how jhbuild works
<larsu> yep
<larsu> I'll come up with a test as soon as I got this package updated
 * larsu has been yak-shaving enough this week
<larsu> s/test/patch
<larsu> on the bright side: the new default-values tests found a bug in one of the ubuntu patches
<seb128> Laney, could you have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1065979? it's in the sponsoring queue and your sponsored the previous version of the change
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1065979 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "external/internal monitors mirrored on boot when laptop lid is closed" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Laney> seb128: ok, could you assign me?
<seb128> mlankhorst, hey, could you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1197921 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1197921 in pixman (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice spreadsheet causes full Xorg crash with Anti-Aliasing enabled" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> sponsoring ninja
<seb128> Laney, sure, should I keep the sponsors as well or unsubscribe those?
<Laney> keep it, someone else might do it meanwhile
<seb128> Laney, down to under 70 today, still not great but that's already better ;-)
<Laney> some of the red ones have been there for ages
<seb128> blame foundations
<seb128> they are mostly stuff they know about, I don't feel competent to sponsor those
<seb128> e.g debian-installer, sysvinit, partman, acpi-support
<Laney> yeah I tried pinging a couple of times
<seb128> efitbootmgr
 * seb128 tries some #ubuntu-devel nudging
<seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur: I guess you guys know but our apparmor is outdated (2.8.0 where upstream is at 2.8.2) ... do you guys plan to update? ;-) (/me trying to clean outdated packages from versions)
<jdstrand> seb128 (and mdeslaur): heh, yes we know. we are actually *far* ahead of 2.8.2. plan is to get back in sync with trunk (2.9) and drop 70 patches or so :)
<jdstrand> that isn't going to happen today though
<seb128> jdstrand, is that happening this cycle? (or should I just mark 2.8.0 as "uptodate" in our status page to get if off the list)
<jdstrand> it is happening this cycle
<seb128> great
<seb128> jdstrand, thanks
<jdstrand> seb128: it will 100% happen by December (when we land our IPC and LXC work). but for now, it is actually up to date. so however you want to handle it
<seb128> jdstrand, I'm probably going to just add a note about it, thanks
<jdstrand> sounds fine
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924395 ... can you tell me in what version of firefox that's going to land? ritz added a sponsoring request to SRU this fix, do you think that's worth a SRU or that we should just wait the next security update/firefox update?
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 924395 in General "Gnome proxy settings, address conversion to IPv6 for "ignore hosts" doesn't convert netmask" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1226537
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1226537 in firefox (Ubuntu) "System proxy settings doesn't work in Firefox when URL is a numeric IP address" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> cyphermox, do you want to have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ejabberd/+bug/1097366 ? You commented by then saying you were interested but needed a config to test, there was one provided since
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1097366 in ejabberd (Ubuntu Raring) "Pidgin client digest-uri checks fail with multiple virtual hosts" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jibel> seb128, can you unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors from bug 1247877? I'll submit it directly to Debian
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1247877 in python-dateutil (Ubuntu) "Enable autopkgtest" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1247877
<seb128> jibel, done, thank you ;-)
<jibel> yw
<happyaron> seb128: do you want to postpond upgrading to ibus 1.5.4, for CVE-2013-4509
<happyaron> I have some clue to the crash now, but the code is written in vala and is a bit difficult for me to debug. It's very probably introduced in ibus-541492-xkb.patch, which was cherry-picked from Fedora 19.
<seb128> happyaron, @CVE: do you have a reference? google returned https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1027028 which states it might be an issue since 1.5.2
<ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1027028 in vulnerability "CVE-2013-4509 ibus: visible password entry flaw" [Low,New]
<happyaron> seb128: see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ibus-user/mvCHDO1BJUw
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2013/CVE-2013-4509.html
<happyaron> seb128: only 1.5.3 isn't affected
<jdstrand> seb128: ^
<seb128> jdstrand, happyaron: thanks
<seb128> happyaron, let's wait for the fix to update then
<happyaron> ok
<jdstrand> so we don't want to merge 1.5.4-1.
<happyaron> yup
<seb128> jdstrand, yeah, that's what happyaron was asking about ... well we want to merge but we should wait for the next version or to have a patch for the CVE, before uploading
<jdstrand> yes
<seb128> happyaron, @vala: if you need help we have people on the channel who know it pretty well, so feel free to ask
<happyaron> thanks, I'm still new to it, will ask later if I can't make it.
<seb128> timchen119, hey, are you there?
<ricotz> seb128, hi :)
<seb128> ricotz, hey, how are you?
<ricotz> seb128, was it intended to drop the libunity support of geary?
<mterry> pitti, hello!  You know autopkg, eh?  :)  Do you know what this failure in deja-dup is saying is the problem?: http://10.189.74.2:8080/job/trusty-adt-deja-dup/13/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/
<seb128> ricotz, no, how did that happen? missing build-depends?
<ricotz> seb128, i am good :), thanks, i hope the release stress has settled
<ricotz> seb128, i guess so
<seb128> ricotz, yeah, it's better, another busy cycle started though
<ricotz> libmessaging-menu-dev was added back but not libunity-dev
<seb128> ricotz, thanks for pointing it, is there a bug report about it?
<ricotz> seb128, i am still counting for gtk 3.10 ;)
<ricotz> seb128, no bug report, i just stumbled over it
<seb128> ricotz, you might want to help that to happen and help looking at theme issues etc?
<ricotz> seb128, larsu promised to port the important menu patch which is crucial to have
<seb128> ricotz, he did
<ricotz> seb128, besides that i guess there are only theming issues
<seb128> ricotz, right, which is where we would welcome help
<larsu> ricotz: ya I'm done
<ricotz> seb128, i am hoping porting it wont break abi/api so it can be easily used on saucy
<larsu> I'm still fighting with some build issues (testing mostly)
<ricotz> larsu, nice!
<ricotz> i hope it is compatible with ido in saucy
<larsu> of course
<ricotz> good :)
<ricotz> larsu, what issues?
<ricotz> i ran into trouble having those symbols exported and forced it the hard way
<larsu> in-tree testing is broken for some tests
<larsu> and also uncovered a bug in one of our patches :)
<ricotz> for some reason the export macro didnt work
<larsu> I'm disabling the offending tests
<ricotz> i see
<larsu> I'll reenable them later. I just want to get the package building asap
<larsu> which symbols? The ubuntu_* ones?
<ricotz> yes the interface symbols
<larsu> what was the problem? It works fine here
<larsu> ah, you need to tag functions for exporting now with GDK_AVAILABLE_IN_*
<ricotz> larsu, no idea why it didnt work https://launchpadlibrarian.net/155575870/gtk%2B3.0_3.10.2-0ubuntu1~saucy3_3.10.2-0ubuntu1~saucy4.diff.gz
<ricotz> larsu, i know
<larsu> heh, yeah it took me some time to figure that one out: config.h was not included
<larsu> don't worry about it though, I'll have the fully updated patch up in a bit
<ricotz> ah :\
<larsu> if the tests pass this time around
<ricotz> you actually want to include gdk.h
<larsu> that alone didn't do it
<larsu> and it already is through gtkwidget.h
<ricotz> alright
<ricotz> larsu, feel free to point me to the package later :)
<larsu> will do
<larsu> GDK_AVAILABLE_IN_3_10 expands to "extern"
<larsu> oops, ignore me
<Laney> larsu: are you adding an installed-tests package?
<larsu> Laney: not yet
<Laney> nod
<larsu> I'm simply trying to get the package building as is
<larsu> but I'm running into more and more issues :-/
<Laney> at least the yak will look good when you're done :(
<larsu> haha
<larsu> when was org.gtk.MountOperationHandler added?
<seb128> larsu, not recently, why?
<larsu> it's the cause of some test failures. GtkMountOperation tries to access that name on the bus and crashes if it's not there
<seb128> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=44fd03eb47b9492ffaf32ae6dfcca00b7d5a7618
<larsu> well, this would have bitten us later. I'm glad the tests caught it
<larsu> not glad that I have to write a patch for it _now_
<larsu> seb128: my bad, this is because we don't have access to the bus at all in fakeroot
<larsu> and those tests don't run under gtestdbus or similar
<seb128> larsu, welcome to the fun of the packaging world :/
<larsu> haha thanks
<seb128> larsu, I guess you need dbus-test-runner or similar?
<larsu> yes
<larsu> these tests normally just use the session's dbus and dconf
<larsu> scary.
<ogra_> larsu, but you get testing of dbus for free this way ;)
<larsu> ogra_: unless there's no bus around, which causes all tests to fail
<ogra_> details :)
<larsu> haha
<Laney> what does dbus-test-runner do over dbus-launch?
<larsu> I don't know, I'm using GTestBus
<larsu> so I've added a patch, how can I make debuild pick it up without rebuilding everything?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Hi, time for a follow-up remark about the u-s-s discussion last night?
<Laney> larsu: I usually work with the upstream build system until happy, then switch to the packaging
<Laney> maybe 'debuild binary' though? I think seb128 works more in that way
<Laney> GunnarHj: maaaaybe
<Laney> working on AS atm btw (a different patch, but getting warmed up) ;-)
<GunnarHj> Laney: Let's try, then. ;-)
<GunnarHj> If the final decision is to use 'the simplistic approach', i.e. just set a locale, there is (at least) two options. You can call both SetLanguage and SetFormatsLocale. But those methods in Ubuntu are patched with separating display language and formats in mind. An alternative way is to not make use of accountsservice's Language property at all, and write to ~/.pam_environment directly. In that case it would be sufficient t
<GunnarHj> o only set LANG.
<larsu> Laney: that's what I did. The upstream build system is happy but the package build failed on the tests
<larsu> oh well, I guess I'll just recompile
<Laney> try dpkg-buildpackage -nc
<Laney> GunnarHj: What if things want to read it out of AS?
<Laney> Like the greeter or whatever
<seb128> Laney, http://gould.cx/ted/blog/Reimagining_dbus-test-runner
<seb128> Laney, dbus-launch relies on having a dbus configuration on the system afaik, also the test runner has some flexibility in the options/behaviour ... tedg would sell it better probably though ;-)
<Laney> I bet it is more flexible somehow, probably my bad for not using it
<Laney> not suitable for upstreaming to debian though :P
<tedg> ?
<tedg> BTW, libdbustest has dbus-mock support!  Way cool.
<GunnarHj> Laney: Then it's best to use the a-s methods, of course. But please note that with the Ubuntu patches, the Language property stores a language code (ll_CC), not a locale name.
<Laney> GunnarHj: Yeah
<GunnarHj> Laney: That's handled on the desktop, and if you e.g. use the same lightdm version on the phone as on the desktop, it should be ok.
<Laney> That's the eventual idea
<Laney> we should design solutions with that in mind
<GunnarHj> Laney: Ok.
<Laney> The current code in u-s-s does call both of those methods
<Laney> attente wrote it, but I think it passes them the right things
<GunnarHj> Laney: Actually, SetLanguage expects a language code, but is able to deal with a locale name also. ;-)
<tedg> Laney, Huh, so it seems that dbus-test-runner never made it into Debian.  It got to ITP, but not further.  There was a belief that it required Ubuntu changes to DBus, but that's not correct.
<tedg> Laney, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=677271
<ubot2> Debian bug 677271 in wnpp "RFP: dbus-test-runner -- Runs tests under a new DBus" [Wishlist,Open]
<Laney> tedg: Maybe you could post there (nnnn@bugs.debian.org) to correct the record
<GunnarHj> Laney: Given that e.g. lightdm queries a-s for language, It sounds as if all is well then. You can disregard the idea above.
<Laney> GunnarHj: Alright then, thanks for your thoughts
<GunnarHj> Laney: yw
<seb128> bregma, the bug you just reassigned to ido is fixed in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ido/13.10.0+14.04.20131106-0ubuntu1
<seb128> bregma, it was in trusty for half a day, but I guess it's enough for users to grab the update and still run it
<bregma> just so long as it doesn't get lost
<seb128> bregma, well, I'm just pointing so you don't spend time trying to debug to figure out that it was already handled
<seb128> hum
<seb128> pitti, did you see " GVFS-RemoteVolumeMonitor-WARNING **: remote volume monitor with dbus name org.gtk.Private.UDisks2VolumeMonitor is not supported" errors before?
<seb128> (looking to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1241811 which seems to bites some users)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1241811 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "USB disk not automatically mounted after upgrade to 13.10" [Low,Incomplete]
<mlankhorst> seb128: well I already did my full analysis there :P
<mlankhorst> was hoping to get feedback from upstream
<jdstrand> seb128: hi! do you have the ability to move around stuff in the client track for vUDS?
<jdstrand> jono: ^
<jono> jdstrand, tied up right now, mhall119 can help
<seb128> jdstrand, I can yes
<jdstrand> seb128: cool, can you switch these two sessions: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22061/client-1311-user-data-encryption/ on 11-20 and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1311/meeting/22083/client-s-system-settings-panels/ on 11-19?
<seb128> jdstrand, do you need them swapped or do you just want the settings slot for your data session?
<jdstrand> the latter. right now user data encryption conflicts with the upstart roadmap
<seb128> jdstrand, ok, done
<jdstrand> seb128: thanks! :)
<seb128> yw!
<jdstrand> mhall119, jono: fyi, seb128 helped me
<Laney> ah, fun, my patch makes AS segfault
<Laney> seems like a good moment to go away for the weekend :P
<Laney> have a good one everyone!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
<robru> seb128, hey
<robru> seb128, how do i go about getting this blueprint turned into a uds session? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/webapps-applications/+spec/client-1311-webapps-sru-alternatives
<seb128> chrisccoulson, where do you look to know if a firefox bug is known upstream? e.g https://launchpadlibrarian.net/145559707/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is hunspell a distro stuff or upstream?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i guess have a look at https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/home/products/Firefox
<chrisccoulson> we should really get this crash reporter enabled again
<kenvandine> sil2100, do you still need that package sponsored?
<kenvandine> sil2100, did you see my feedback on irc yesterday?
<sil2100> kenvandine: hi! Yes! I'll fix that override and look at that lintian error :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: are those the only problems with the package?
<kenvandine> sil2100, yes
<cyphermox> robru: http://calypso.cyphermox.net/~mtrudel/component_mismatches_ppa.png
<cyphermox> ^ ubuntu-download-manager
<robru> kenvandine, ^^
<cyphermox> not a whole lot to do
<robru> cyphermox, what's the deal with webtest? doesn't look connected
<cyphermox> or at least, much less than the prvious
<cyphermox> no, it's not connected
<cyphermox> it's an irrelevant other thing
<robru> cyphermox, also hunspell? it's not u-d-m pulling that in?
<cyphermox> nope
<cyphermox> just look at u-d-m and anything below it
<robru> so just qtsystems then? and it pulls nothing else in? can it really be that easy?
<cyphermox> robru: compare to http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<cyphermox> yes
<robru> cyphermox, oh, ok. great
<cyphermox> you should still take a look to make sure qtsystems has all its build-depends in main
<cyphermox> but the diagram should be fairly good
<robru> cyphermox, bah! i thought this tool did that?
<cyphermox> it does
<cyphermox> it doesn't hurt to double check though ;)
<sil2100> kenvandine: ok, I fixed the issues and pushed to the branch I mentioned earlier :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: the capnproto one
<robru> cyphermox, too good to be true: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6384111/
<cyphermox> I think you'll find all those to be binary packages that are built from qtsystems.
<robru> hmmmm
<darkxst> Laney, can you check the mozjs17 "js" shell on powerpc? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711519
<ubot2> Gnome bug 711519 in general "jsunit tests fail on powerpc" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-03
<pitti> Laney: thanks for sorting out the g-s-d deps; did that creep in with debclean? i. e. weren't they commented in control.in?
<pitti> Bonjour
<desrt> pitti: bonjour!
<pitti> bonjour desrt, comment vas-tu ?
<desrt> pitti: vous Ãªtes une femme et je suis un garÃ§on
<pitti> desrt: J'ai vu que tu commence apprendre franÃ§ais ?
<desrt> pitti: that's all i got so far from duolingo
<pitti> desrt: non, je suis un garÃ§on aussi :-)
<desrt> unless you want to eat an apple or something
<desrt> nous avons les pommes!
<desrt> seriously, though... this site improved a lot since i was on it last time (>2 years ago, apparently)
<pitti> desrt: en effet
<larsu> good morning!
<darkxst> pitti, Laney thanks for driving the upower transition home ;)
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<pitti> darkxst: yw; thanks for preparing and testing most bits already!
<larsu> pitti: sehr gut danke! Porto war toll ;)
<larsu> pitti: wie geht's dir?
<darkxst> pitti, np, so we just need gtk and bluez5 at some point but not urgent
<darkxst> larsu, how is gtk going?
<darkxst> (I mean Bluez5 is not urgent)
<pitti> larsu: prima, danke; wenig Schlaf :/
<larsu> darkxst: isn't it in the desktop team ppa?
 * larsu thought Laney was going to upload it
<darkxst> larsu, no not yet
<larsu> let's see if we can make that happen today, then
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<darkxst> larsu, ok
<darkxst> seb128, morning
<seb128> what are you guys speaking about?
<seb128> gtk?
<darkxst> gtk
<seb128> larsu, your vcs has the mir backend commented out
<seb128> we were unsure if that needs to be resolved before testing/upload
<seb128> desrt said he gave you an update patch on pastebin
<larsu> he did, but I didn't manage to apply it before leaving
<larsu> I'll do that today
<seb128> larsu, k, that's why we didn't upload it
<didrocks> morning
<larsu> morning didrocks!
 * larsu <-- fast
<didrocks> hey larsu!
<didrocks> how were your holidays?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<larsu> didrocks: awesome!
<larsu> thanks. How are you?
<didrocks> I'm still sick (since last Wednesday)
<didrocks> so this morning, still headache + temperature :/
<didrocks> (not as bad as it was though)
<didrocks> but quite tired then, didn't really enjoy the week-end
<seb128> didrocks, :-(
<larsu> uh oh, get better!
<didrocks> thanks
<larsu> also, drink more tea!
<didrocks> yeah, well, water firstâ¦
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> hey
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke mlankhorst
<mvo> good morning
<seb128> hey mvo
<seb128> happy monday everyone ;-)
<mvo> hey seb128 :)
<Laney> yo yo YO
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<larsu> what up Laney
<larsu> and hi everyone else who joined :)
<Laney> doing good
<Laney> a coffee man told me i looked like i'd been working out and gave me a terrorist fist bump
<larsu> can I turn off spotify notifications?
<larsu> Laney: nice!
 * larsu fist-bumps Laney
<Laney> lolz
<Laney> how was your week off?
<Laney> & how are you seb128 ?
<larsu> awesome. porto is really nice
<Laney> pitti: commented> no, in fact running clean is basically what I did
<larsu> can recommend hanging out there
<larsu> don't get the local speciality though. It's disgusting
<seb128> Laney, doing good, thanks ;-)
<larsu> kind of like poutine
<larsu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesinha
<Laney> is that cheese on top?
<larsu> ya
<Laney> ...
<Laney> the meat by itself looks nice
<larsu> but it isn't
<larsu> I ate it at the supposedly best place
<larsu> was sick the whole day after
<Laney> urgh
<larsu> wow, I need to edit a config file to disable track notifications
<larsu> what is this, 1999?
<Laney> it's vivid time
 * Laney stabs the pandaboard
<Laney> I need to replace this heap of crap
<ogra_> get a nexus5 ;)
<ogra_> use ubuntu-touch and a chroot ... will definitely be a lot faster
<Laney> SOLD
<seb128> is anyone here having a unity8-desktop (desktop-next) vivid install? is unity8 still starting for you?
<willcooke> seb128, I can install it and test
<willcooke> seb128, is the desktop next ISO rebased on V already?  Do I just download that?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that should work
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
 * willcooke downloads
<didrocks> seb128: Thursday's image was starting
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, vivid was working for me on thursday
<seb128> I dist-upgraded today and it's not starting anymore
 * willcooke writes the ISO to USB
<willcooke> 15.04 installed still says "Welcome to 14.10"
<willcooke> guess thats normal at this point
<didrocks> yeah, the templates are updated later in the cycle
<seb128> they can be updated now
<seb128> it's just that nobody did it yet I guess
<willcooke> can I do it?
<willcooke> seems like something I could probably get my head around
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> sure ;)
<seb128> it's going to take more time figuring out what to change and how that to do the change
<seb128> but yeah, you could do it
<willcooke> seb128, yup - looks b0rked.  I
<willcooke> I set up auto login from the installed
<willcooke> I'll try again with out that
<didrocks> seb128: want me to upgrade things one after another to see what broke it?
<didrocks> or confirm?
<seb128> didrocks, downgrading unity8{,-private,-common} fixes it for me so I guess it's it
<seb128> willcooke, thanks for confirming
<willcooke> I wish Canonical would buy this and redirect it: http://www.lauchpad.net/
<didrocks> ok
<willcooke> my terrible typing would be happy
<seb128> didrocks, if you want to try/confirm that would be nice still ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: could do, one sec
<didrocks> seb128: confirming
<seb128> Saviq, ^ willcooke and didrocks confirm the unity8 desktop issue
<seb128> didrocks, thanks!
<seb128> on that note going for lunch, back in ~1h
<mlankhorst> morning
<mlankhorst> erm
<mlankhorst> afternoon* :P
<mlankhorst> except to you brits!
<Laney> two more minutes
<willcooke> any ideas why this BP:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-1504-desktop-apps-on-mir
<willcooke> isnt showing here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid
<seb128> willcooke, because you didn't target vivid
<seb128> willcooke, I accepted it, it's listed now
<willcooke> is that "milestone target"?
<seb128> willcooke, no, it's "serie goal", but you don't have enough ubuntu-foo to accept things, you can just nominate it seems
<willcooke> ah, ok,
<seb128> I accepted it for you
<willcooke> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> back to the foo mine for me
<seb128> I'm unsure what team give you those rights and if you can be add
<willcooke> I'll find out...
<seb128> or if that's something that comes with reward for having done enough work in Ubuntu/beeing trusted knowing the details enough
 * Laney has these buttons too
<larsu> willcooke: could just use seb128 as a secretary :P
<larsu> "push this link for me please"
<willcooke> I like that plan very much
<willcooke> ;)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, do you plan to merge/update webkitgtk? just wondering if bug #1388389 is for you :-)
<ubot5> bug 1388389 in webkitgtk (Ubuntu) "please update Utopic to WebKitGTK 2.4.7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388389
<Laney> dude
<Laney> you should check launchpad.net/builders
<Laney> ;-)
<Laney> seb128: back to you, what about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1383486 ? are you SRUing it or should I?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1383486 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Utopic) "menu to select zoom doesn't drop down" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> Laney, I can do it, I was waiting to get feedback from vivid
<Laney> fair enough, /me is upgrading atm so can check in a minute
 * Laney â lunch while that grinds
<seb128> larsu, do you have free slot to debug an unity-panel-service/indicator-messages/gtk_menu_tracker segfault?
<larsu> sure
 * larsu is almost done with after-sprint-and-holiday-catchup
<seb128> larsu, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1386584 is yours
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1386584 in unity (Ubuntu) "SIGSEGV when notification contains |" [High,Confirmed]
<seb128> larsu, the u-p-s segfaults when getting a message from an IRC contact with a "|" in its name
<seb128> confirmed on current vivid
<larsu> wfm
<seb128> ?
<larsu> oops. stop.
 * larsu read that as notify-isd
<larsu> I'll check
<larsu> thanks for pointing me to it
<seb128> yw
<seb128> I confirmed it here
<seb128> so let me know if you need details
<larsu> pretty sure I know the issue already
<seb128> k
<larsu> i-messages puts contact names into actions without escaping them
<larsu> actually, xchat does
<larsu> but i-messages should really check :)
<seb128> k
<seb128> thanks for looking at it :-)
<larsu> Laney, desrt: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739567
<ubot5> Gnome bug 739567 in general "Comment in sol.c is needlessly offensive" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<larsu> also replied to his mail, saying I thought it's a trivial enough change
<Laney> larsu: thanks for doing that
<larsu> took some effort not to yell :)
<Laney> I'm sure you will get a considered and polite response to thank you for your efforts :-)
<larsu> :)
<didrocks> waow, the street will be so clean!
<didrocks> third time the clean vehicule is driving into my street today (and it's just a one-way street)
<Laney> maybe the queen is visiting
<seb128> maybe they want to justify being able to ask for more local tax? ;-)
<Laney> pitti: I got a conffile prompt for upower on dist-upgrade (http://paste.debian.net/130002), any clue?
<seb128> "but see, you can enjoy very clean streets"
<didrocks> heh, especially when it's rainingâ¦ :)
<xnox> larsu: have you made debian/ubuntu codesearches for swear words? a bunch of them get pages of results.
<Laney> hmm, I might have had an old 0.99 at some point
<Laney> so maybe it's okay
<larsu> xnox: no. chpe started a commit war and this is my reply :)
<xnox> larsu: interesting, can you point to the source of the commit war?
<larsu> xnox: not a war yet: https://git.gnome.org/browse/aisleriot/log
 * Laney restarts into vivid
<Laney> hopefully
<xnox> larsu: "That commit was unauthorised." - LOLZ
<larsu> xnox: ya... he sent me a nasty email too
<larsu> xnox: he's technically right of course, but seriously...
<larsu> he also reverted a similar thing in terminal, so I thought it's ok
<Laney> you get stuff like this when NMUing in Debian sometimes too
<xnox> it's like all of my patches submitted to GNOME never got applied, "because maintainer should apply them" and eventually my patches got closed with "this project was re-written in vala"
<seb128> you usually don't NMU from an activate maintainer without talking to him first...
<xnox> seb128: i do.
<seb128> but blame on Laney for saying that chpe was mia when he was not ;-)
<Laney> I didn't say that
<seb128> I though you said he changed his bzg account to "not around anymore" or something like that
<seb128> sorry, I probably understood that wrongly
<Laney> It said "away, not reading bugmail"
<Laney> or similar
<seb128> anyway, dealing with some people is fun :p
<xnox> "... but carefully reading commit mails"
<larsu> :D
<mlankhorst> willcooke: is there anyone working on rootless X yet? :P
<mlankhorst> oh, all TODO..
<willcooke> mlankhorst, yeah the Mir team have it all on their list.  Do you want to get involved in that?
<seb128> (they could probably use some help with that)
<mlankhorst> I've poked and dissected xwayland a little today, I think such a glamor-based approach could work for xmir too
<mlankhorst> although it seems to depend on proper mir input wsup
<mlankhorst> s/wsup/support/
<ChrisTownsend> mlankhorst: raof has a test branch/packages that I've been using: https://launchpad.net/~raof/+archive/ubuntu/break-all-the-things
<mlankhorst> ah
<didrocks> typical raof's branching naming :)
<pitti> Laney: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Mock"? might that be from a leftover installation of python-dbusmocK?
<mlankhorst> I think a standalone XMIR has more chance of getting accepted upstream.
<pitti> Laney: I mean, the package doesn't install that, but I guess you might have modified it locally for testing the template (as you worked on that some time ago)
<mlankhorst> or alternatively: not a chance in hall the driver hacks will get accepted. :P
<ChrisTownsend> I think he has some sort of plan...just not sure what it is:)
<Laney> pitti: Hmm, maybe,, I don't remember having t o do that but if the package doesn't say anything about it then probably so
<pitti> Laney: org.freedesktop.DBus.Mock is definitively not appearing in upower itself
<Laney> whatever is this lag
<Laney> seb128: http://paste.debian.net/130008
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<seb128> kenvandine, ^
<kenvandine> seb128, woot!
 * xnox ponders if i should be running vivid on my work laptop. It's on trusty at the moment, and all other machines are on utopic.
<larsu> seb128: sorry for the wait. Added desrt's updated mir patch to lp:~larsu/gtk/gtk-3-14
<seb128> larsu, great! you consider the update ready for review/testing?
<larsu> seb128: I think so, yes
<tedg> Laney, Could you look at this? https://code.launchpad.net/~albertsmuktupavels/indicator-applet/libpanel-applet-3.10+/+merge/230851
<ochosi> hey folks!
<seb128> hey ochosi, how are you?
<ochosi> good good â you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> Laney, do you want to look at the new gtk from larsu or should I?
<ochosi> cool, good to hear
<ochosi> i wanted to ask you guys â since we talked about headerbars a few times already â whether this visual glitch could come from the headerbar-to-toolbar patch in evince: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-10-27-124835.php
<ochosi> (note that it doesn't always happen and it goes away too if you resize the window and stuff, basically if you cause a redraw)
<ochosi> second question being why simple scan uses a headerbar â i thought it's installed in ubuntu by default? (or at least written by robert_ancell)
<seb128> ochosi, not sure, it's worth trying if the most recent gtk upload fixes it
<seb128> that's in vivid and in the utopic sru queue (not approved yet)
<ochosi> right, this is in utopic
<ochosi> ah, 3.14 is going to utopic?
<seb128> no
<ochosi> ah ok, the link to larsu's branch above tricked me :)
<seb128> I mean https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/3.12.2-0ubuntu16
<seb128> that's a fix for the popover menu not opening under env that display the menu
<ochosi> ah, good to know
<ochosi> i'll look out for that one
<seb128> which is used by evince for e.g zoom
<seb128> dunno for the second question, did you try under Unity?
<seb128> I think robert_ancell did unity and !unity codepaths
<seb128> but best to check with him, I don't know much about it
<Laney> ya, can look at 3.14
<Laney> larsu: do you know of any theme problems?
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<larsu> Laney: "no"
<ochosi> seb128: ok, i see. well i guess a !gnome codepath would be better, but i can talk about that with him
<seb128> ochosi, yeah, talk to him, I discussed it a bit that with him, in the context of patching GNOME apps and he didn't really agree I think
<seb128> he was rather on the line of "we tweak for Unity but we are not in a position to decide for other desktops and should follow upstream in those cases"
<seb128> but well, if xubuntu ask to be added to the list and then $otherenv he might revisit
<ochosi> seb128: ok, that sounds like a discussion really makes sense. i mean this problem will basically re-surface every cycle i guess... (at least for us)
 * didrocks waves good evening and good night!
<Laney> wee
<Laney> merged gtk, uploaded to ppa
 * Laney goes away, ttyl
<maxb> X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled=false in a ~/.config/autostart/gnome-keyring-ssh.desktop seems to no longer be honoured in Utopic - would anyone have some hints as to where I should be looking to find out why?
<robert_ancell> willcooke, I think due to daylight savings our meeting is now 2 hours away (according to my calendar). But can do any time from now
<willcooke> robert_ancell, hero!
<ochosi> robert_ancell_: hey there! quick question, any reason why simple-scan is using gtkheaderbars in xubuntu but not in unity? if possible, it'd be nice not to just check for !unity, but also for !xfce for headerbars
<robert_ancell_> ochosi, it checks if the shell has gtk-shell-shows-menubar set. But that's a bit hacky. In other codebases we've switched to checking XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP which seems more reliable
<robert_ancell_> ochosi, open a bug and I'll update it to check XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP and hide the header bar for Unity and XFCE
<ochosi> robert_ancell_: thanks a bunch, that's very kind of you!
<ochosi> i'll be sure to report a bug asap
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-04
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> guten tag pitti!
<pitti> hey larsu!
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<mlankhorst> morning
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> Ã§a va mieux ?
<seb128> hey mlankhorst
<didrocks> seb128: encore une barre Ã  la tÃªte, donc pas encore complÃ¨tement guÃ©riâ¦
<didrocks> et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien moi !
<mlankhorst> did you upload the change default language pack to french to ubuntu yet?
<didrocks> ok, so 2 emails + a bug report with 3 people who noticed that google broke the android studio download over the week-end
<didrocks> so it means people are using udtc
 * didrocks prepares a release with a fix
<seb128> what google changed?
<didrocks> two things
<didrocks> the first one that I can fix easily
<didrocks> md5sum -> sha1
<didrocks> the second is more complex, they don't ship the sdk with the editor anymore
<didrocks> I will let people setting it up for now, I can't find a way to "register" the sdk easily without any gui
<didrocks> but I don't find it easy to find
<didrocks> I guess the android studio dev team have a plan
<seb128> that's likely
<didrocks> that's why I don't want to invest in a workaround for now until it's more clear
<seb128> yeah, makes sense
<seb128> Laney, I guess you are fine with https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1346483/+merge/239230 now?
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke
 * didrocks releases udtc fix now
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> willcooke, do you still plan to fix the ubuntu version/logo issues yourself or should somebody else have a look?
<willcooke> seb128, Well, I could take a look, but I want to get these blueprints done, these docs finished, etc etc. So if someone wants to do it now, please feel free - if not, I can get to it in the next week or so
<seb128> willcooke, well, it's going to take me 1 minute to change it for the control center and lightdm, it's just that you said you were interested to do that yourself, so we can also let it for you
<willcooke> seb128, you crack on it with - you can show me what to do at some point
<seb128> k
<seb128> willcooke, other topic for you
<didrocks> well, if willcooke wants to do, there is really no hurry before the first alpha to have this done
<seb128> didrocks, there is not, it's just that while we think about it I would have put the mps up so we can forget about it
<willcooke> +1 - get it done
<seb128> doing so
<seb128> willcooke, so, other topic, when you see robert_ancell can you ask about bug #1388875
<ubot5> bug 1388875 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "[gtk-mir-backend] Clicking seems to confuse GTK (or the shell)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388875
<seb128> I mentioned it in Washington and tried via email
<seb128> but that got little traction
<willcooke> seb128, sure thing  - I spoke with his last night, but I can follow up on email
<seb128> did you speak about gtkmir/that bug?
<willcooke> no
<seb128> I just would like to know if anyone is going to look at it/who
<seb128> if Robert is not interested it would be good to know so we can try to find somebody else
<seb128> or bounce to the Mir team if that's on their side
<Laney> morning
<Laney> seb128: looking good
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<Laney> chilly
<Laney> it's pretty foggy today too
<Laney> otherwise good ;-)
<Laney> you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks!
<pitti> hey seb128, hey Laney
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke!
<Laney> hey pitti
<didrocks> pitti: hey!
<Laney> soooooooooooooooooooo 3.14
<willcooke> pies
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/gedit3.14.png
<Laney> toolbar buttons have a border
<willcooke> I like it!
<Laney> a glittering career in visual design awaits
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> & http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/lightdm.jpg
<larsu> Laney: that's so 10 years ago
<willcooke> I like it!
<larsu> (also, good morning)
<Laney> what's up
<larsu> ceiling
<Laney> I didn't even need to ping you :-)
<larsu> (haha)
 * larsu lurks
<larsu> I should have irssi highlight a few keywords besides my nick...
<Laney> and the 'no icon' thing in gedit is a down arrow
<Laney> what up with that
<Laney> also no ctrl+shift+i :(
<larsu> didn't we see some arrow icons missing in some test?
<larsu> hm, this is an old gedit though
<Laney> possibly
<larsu> does `GTK_DEBUG=interactive gedit` work?
<Laney> yes this works
<larsu> I'll look into that
<Laney> yeah installing adwaita-icon-theme gets those back
<larsu> so we should probably depend on that...
<Laney> probably best to get those icons in our theme
<Laney> could copy them ... *cough*
 * larsu hands Laney a cough drop
 * didrocks will gladly welcome it btw
<Laney> 'it'?
<didrocks> the cough drop :)
<Laney> still ill? :(
<didrocks> ah ogra_, finally sharing it! velocity is getting down :)
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, better, but not done yet :/
<didrocks> Laney: was getting better on Friday, and then, starting to be worse and worse until yesterday
<Laney> doh
<ogra_> didrocks, its the fault of the ML archives ... it got slow, so sil2100 only shares landing stuff late, that made me go lazy
<didrocks> ogra_: heh, still faster than willcooke or popey to notice I guess! :)
<ogra_> yeah, these slackers
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, starting to get tired of being sick :p
<Laney> honey and lemon!
<popey> wat wat wat
<didrocks> Laney: I'm almost exclusively on that + pain killer since last week :/
<popey> didrocks: https://plus.google.com/u/0/109365858706205035322/posts/85z5SxwbWko
<popey> you're welcome
<didrocks> popey: thanks ;)
<didrocks> popey: is the photo your cat?
<popey> nope
<popey> its one I stole off t'internet
<Laney> on only connect yesterday...
<Laney> one of the questions had first clue "Salem"
<Laney> totally got 5 points on that one
<popey> Sabrina?
<Laney> witches cats
<popey> ah
<Laney> #3 was crookshanks
<popey> i want this cat http://media2.giphy.com/media/BGf3BlE8sd2O4/200.gif
<larsu> you want an exploding cat?
<larsu> didrocks: hope you get better soon, man
<didrocks> larsu: thanks
<Laney> larsu: gnome bug #729565
<ubot5> Gnome bug 729565 in general "add icons that are suitable as replacement for GtkArrow" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729565
<Laney> we probably can just copy these tbh
<willcooke> wait way
<willcooke> wait wat
 * willcooke reads backlog
<Laney> http://paste.debian.net/130208
<willcooke> didrocks, no fair - I didn't get my prior warning :)
<didrocks> willcooke: heh, the message was short enough to not bother you for a reread! no worry :)
<willcooke> bah
<willcooke> I demand first sharing rights :D
<didrocks> ahah
<willcooke> anyway, great job didrocks, as always
<willcooke> the rest of you could learn a thing or two from didrocks
<willcooke> ;D
<larsu> Laney: thanks. Not sure what the licencing situation is on our theme
<larsu> *licensing
<didrocks> willcooke: well, technically, the work has mostly be done by the community, I'm just stealing credits :)
<willcooke> didrocks, you have learnt well grasshopper
<willcooke> popey, what's all this Chromium crash business?  Is it chromium?
<Laney> dear design, please draw 4 arrows and an â¡ sign
<didrocks> Laney: what char is it?
<didrocks> alt+xxx?
<Laney> something like â¼
<didrocks> ah, a full one
<Laney> for menus and stuff
<Laney> they are actually both under the CC-BY-SA-3.0
<larsu> both themes, you mean?
<Laney> yes
<larsu> cool. let's take that, then
<Laney> I'll make a MP
<larsu> thanks!
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> hold on one second
<Laney> the adwaita icon theme is a rename / merge of the current gnome icon theme + symbolic icons
<Laney> maybe we should indeed update our icon theme to inherit from this one now
<ochosi> yeah, adwaita is basically gnome3-icon-theme or something :)
<ochosi> and it's just a rename/rebrand afaik
<ochosi> there were never separate branches
<Laney> right
<Laney> I guess we want to do that instead of copying the icons in then
<ochosi> depends on whether you wanna save space on the default install
<ochosi> theoretically you could pull the icons in that you need
<ochosi> we (xubuntu) have done that for a while
<ochosi> but yeah, it's work every release...
<Laney> blerg
<ochosi> just as with gtk themes needing to be patched up every release for the new gtk3 version ;)
<Laney> yeaaaaaaaaah gnome-icon-theme has a crazy split going on
<mvo_> mlankhorst: hi, I have a interessting crash here and I wonder if you have a idea. if I run glxgears on 14.10/amd64 its fine. if I run glxgears in a click 14.10/amd64 chroot with /dev /proc etc availalbe and DISPLAY set it crashes. ltrace shows glClear() as the last thing, strace is less helpful. crash happens in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/i965_dri.so. any idea?
<ochosi> Laney: yeah, i think you basically need to pull in -full to be safe
<mlankhorst> mvo_: mount shmfs
<mlankhorst> mvo_: without tmpfs dri3 won't work :)
<mlankhorst> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=415681
<mvo_> mlankhorst: \o/
<mvo_> mlankhorst: and it works like magic, you rock!
<mlankhorst> np
<willcooke> :) excellent
<ochosi> tiheum: i guess there are still no concrete plans for bringing your icon-theme to unity on the desktop..?
<Laney> larsu: uploaded the icon theme, so just the button fixes are left AFAICS
<larsu> Laney: thanks a lot. I'll have a look at those after lunch
<tiheum> ochosi: At the moment, we are 100% focused on the phone. I can't say anyting concerning the desktop.
<ochosi> tiheum: ok, good to know though. thanks
<mlankhorst> willcooke: fridays 1on1 won't work :)
<Laney> pitti: do you see any issues with uploading gnome-terminal now?
<Laney> larsu: hmm, checkboxes look weird too (no background)
<larsu> Laney: ya, I noticed that too
<larsu> also, I wanted to lunch
<larsu> :(
<Laney> why can't you?
<larsu> I can, I just didn't, yet
<larsu> fixing an i-message bug
<Laney> nod
<Laney> we're having rosti
<Laney> yum yum
<larsu> bon apetite!
<Laney> apparently it's rÃ¶sti
<larsu> it is
 * larsu understood, though
<larsu> going for lunch as well now, you made me hungry
<Laney> guten appetit
<larsu> thanks!
<Laney> blerg^2, vte broke api between 0.36 and 0.38
<pitti> Laney: I tested it, and the only issue (but major) is that gnome-terminal-migrate doesn't seem to work
<pitti> Laney: i. e. your profile config is gone
<pitti> Laney: the migration is being called at start, but it only creates a single dconf key and none of the profile configs
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> ok we should fix that
<pitti> Laney: sorry, I was fairly sure that this worked the last time I tested it, but apparently I did some error
<pitti> (with testing that)
<Laney> No worries, I'll set up a VM after lunch and poke it
<willcooke> mlankhorst, doh!  I knew that too.  Will move.
<willcooke> if you haven't already seen it:  http://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-science-behind-the-ebb-and-flow-of-ubuntu-unitys-popularity/
<pitti> Laney: FTR, testing with a fresh user is a lot simpler (gnome-terminal{,-data} up/downgrades well)
<pitti> Laney: another potentially useful thing from my bash history is: dconf reset -f /org/gnome/terminal/
<pitti> Laney: you need that after downgrading to re-do the migration
<pitti> Laney: so this iteration works fastest: install new g-t, run gnome-terminal-migrate, investigate, run dconf reset -f /org/gnome/terminal/
<pitti> so the turnaround is < 1 s
<ochosi> willcooke: it's not a bad article, but i'm not sure where the "science" comes in...
<willcooke> ochosi, :) yes
<dgadomski> hello everyone
<qengho> seb128: I have adobe-flash package that I'd like to be uploaded to partners repo. Do you know who I should talk to?
<dgadomski> Sweetshark: hi, could you please take a look at bug #1386170? there is a user who would be very happy with having it fixed in the libreoffice ppa for precise
<ubot5> bug 1386170 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice startup center shorcut broken" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386170
<Sweetshark> dgadomski: do you have a better rationale than "user would be happy" to priotize this over the 700 launchpad and 3000 upstream bugs? Esp. since the user is asking for help on the oldest supported release and an unsupported ppa no less?
<dgadomski> Sweetshark: unfortunately not, however I have seen you fixing a similar bug #1200277, if that would be ok with you I would gladly fix it and provide you with the fix in any preferred form
<ubot5> bug 1200277 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Precise) "[LibreOffice] - libreoffice-writer.desktop when drag/drop to desktop, 100% broken. " [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1200277
<Sweetshark> dgadomski: patches are always welcome of course! (either a debdiff or a git format-patch of a commit against the branch http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/log/?h=ubuntu-precise-3.5 would be great).
<Sweetshark> eh
<Sweetshark> dgadomski: forget the git patch thing. you dont want the fix against -3-5 but against something newer in the ppa.
<dgadomski> Sweetshark: yes, it would be ok to have it fixed for 4.3
 * didrocks looks at Sweetshark and grrr at libroffice "doc repair" which never gets last minutes of edits
<Sweetshark> dgadomski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1386170/comments/2
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1386170 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Libreoffice startup center shorcut broken" [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * Sweetshark hands didrocks a cookie.
<Sweetshark> (of course, thats for the hypothetical scenario that LibreOffice crashes, which never happens.)
<didrocks> Sweetshark: lost 15 minutes of work, I would need some hot chocolate with it :/
 * Sweetshark stirs some hot chocolate for didrocks.
<didrocks> thanks!
<dgadomski> Sweetshark: well, I think there are problems with reproducing this on trusty due to bug #1241972
<ubot5> bug 1241972 in Unity 7.2 "Drag and drop from Dash to Desktop doesn't work" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241972
<willcooke> meeting time
<willcooke> #startmeeting Ubuntu Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2014-11-04
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  4 15:31:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<willcooke> #chair willcooke
<meetingology> Current chairs: willcooke
<willcooke> Roll call:
<willcooke> attente_, desrt, didrocks, FJKong (probably afk), happyaron (probably afk), Laney, larsu, mlankhorst, qengho, seb128, sweetshark, tkamppeter (maybe afk)
 * willcooke should write a very simple script to replace himself
<larsu> echo "meeting time"
<willcooke> lol!
<willcooke> #topic attente_
<willcooke> attente_, how goes it?
<FJKong> lol
<attente_> hey
<attente_> not much to report
<attente_> basic cursor support on the gdk mir backend
<attente_> in-progress: window dragging
<larsu> neat
<willcooke> nice!
<attente_> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente_
<willcooke> #topic desrt
<mlankhorst> hey
<larsu> desrt just brb'd in another channel. not sure if he remembered the dst change
<willcooke> thanks larsu, desrt let's come back
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
<willcooke> didrocks - you're up
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> * Releasing Ubuntu Developer Tools Center 0.1 with Eclipse ADT & Eclipse luna support (blog post) on vivid + 14.04 and 14.10
<didrocks> * Releasing another 0.1.1 emergency fix today due to Google changing their checksum algorithm + new tests
<didrocks> * Implementing (not released yet): Go support + tests
<didrocks> * Helping debugging and pushing Qtcreator support on the vivid desktop next image (pending on the qtmir guys now)
<didrocks> * Preparing 2 UOS topics: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22331/ubuntu-developer-tools-community-input/ and http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/meeting/22332/update-to-bluez-5/
<didrocks> * More bluez and systemd documentation reading
<didrocks> * Preparing a talk on 10 years of Ubuntu I will give on Thursday evening
<didrocks> eof
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
<willcooke> FJKong, how's it going?
<FJKong> Last week I mainly focus on analyzing pinyin search, I found there are one useful opensource project it is written by
<FJKong> python, if we can fork it and develop a c/c++ version that will be cool for translating Chinese character to pinyin.
<willcooke> neat!  that sounds interesting
<FJKong> next week I will give more info to you
<willcooke> excellent, look forward to it
<willcooke> thanks djinni`
<willcooke> oops FJKong
<FJKong> lol
<willcooke> MUST STOP AUTO COMPLETE EVERY SINGLE WORD
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
<willcooke> probably not around atm though
<willcooke> happyaron, please let me have your update by email
<willcooke> (hint hint)
<willcooke> #topic Laney
<willcooke> Laney, your go
<Laney> â¢ short week
<Laney> â¢ webkitgtk 2.4.7 merge, test, upload to vivid/utopic/trusty
<Laney> â¢ miniupnpc transition
<Laney> â¢ merge gtk (in desktop team ppa), test
<Laney> â Some new icons required (copied from adwaita-icon-theme into humanity, uploaded)
<Laney> â Unwanted borders around some buttons
<Laney> â No background on checkboxes or radio buttons
<Laney> â Please could someone who can promote fonts-cantarell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-cantarell/+bug/1387599 so it can build
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1387599 in fonts-cantarell (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-cantarell" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<Laney> â¢ Review/upload gdcm, todo: push transition
<Laney> â¢ Push some other transitions: libinput libgit2, some tiny helping on upower
<Laney> â¢ Some de-/usr/bin/libtool uploads or branches: libaccounts-glib libunity-webapps libdbusmenu
<Laney> â¢ Start looking at gnome-terminal 3.12
<Laney> â¢ A few Debian merges, patch forwarding, etc
<Laney> â³
<didrocks> Laney: I'll promote fonts-cantarell now if you want
<Laney> ty
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
<willcooke> larsu, your go
<larsu> vacation!
<willcooke> \o/
<larsu> caught up on bugmail etc
 * qengho tries to envy larsu to death.
<larsu> finsihed up gtk package (thanks for the upload Laney)
<Laney> only to the ppa
<Laney> but ya
<larsu> started fixing bugs - still on the i-messages one
<larsu> started reviewing desrt's xmlmarkupreader branch - again
<larsu> Laney: ya
 * larsu thinks that should be it
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic mlankhorst
<mlankhorst> xorg-server updates, looking into using a standalone Xmir binary instead of using Xorg, fixing rotation with intel + SNA
<mlankhorst> pretty much it, rotation was high priority
<willcooke> thanks mlankhorst
<willcooke> mlankhorst, I spoke to bregma who suggested we speak to RAOF about rootless X
<mlankhorst> yeah
<willcooke> I'll drop him a line and CC you in - see what there is we can help with
<mlankhorst> but I haven't managed to contact him
<mlankhorst> seems he's having some network troubles
<willcooke> I think he's UTC+1million
<mlankhorst> yeah he's in australia
<willcooke> email will do for now, leave it with me
<willcooke> #topic qengho
<qengho> Hey hey.
<willcooke> qengho, any luck with that pp api uplaod?
<qengho> - trying to get precise building chromium. #security will release for T+ without it.
<qengho> - trying to get adobe-flash into partner repo.
<qengho> - working on transition from older flash packages.
<qengho> - 4k/unity/chromium bug; webapps PPAPI missing bug; intel-video drm/chromium-sandbox SEGV bug
<qengho> willcooke: Not yet. I know who to ask, though.
<willcooke> great!
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<willcooke> seb128, you're up
<seb128> â¢ upgraded to vivid (main laptop and test one)
<seb128> â¢ tried to debug unity8-desktop not starting anymore with new unity8 version
<seb128> â¢ helped on the miniupnp transition
<seb128> â¢ some gtk-mir testing
<seb128> â¢ sponsored gtk patches from desrt for gtkpopup issue under classic desktops
<seb128> â¢ desktop merges/sync/updates (libsexy, telepathy-gabble, rhythmbox, ...)
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-system-settings for touch
<seb128> â introductory labels/header better styled
<seb128> â monochrome icon for the battery panel
<seb128> â correct ini parsing in storage
<seb128> â reviews
<seb128> â¢ got details about bt issues on krillin to file a bugreport
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ usual share of bugs triaging and desktop discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> awesome, thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweetshark
<willcooke> Sweetshark, your go
<Sweetshark> not much:
<Sweetshark> - security updates and SRUs for utopic, trusty and precise
<Sweetshark> - urgent upstream firefighting (enough calls for one cycle last week :/)
<Sweetshark> EOF
<willcooke> oof, hope things ease off next week
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
<willcooke> tkamppeter told me he might not be here, so I have his update:
<willcooke> - system-config-printer: Uploaded SRU for Utopic to fix several bugs:
<willcooke> Utility package installation, infinite loop of link creation when a PPD
<willcooke> has bad permissions, authentication of queued jobs not working, setup of
<willcooke> HP printers with fax not working.
<willcooke> - Switchover of OpenPrinting web site to new server
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
<willcooke> Worked on:
<willcooke> - Package updates for vivid
<willcooke> - Add DPI support to gdk-pixbuf / simple-scan
<willcooke> - Add Mapbox support to qtlocation
<willcooke> - Bug triage, fixing
<willcooke> Currently working on:
<willcooke> - Package updates for vivid
<willcooke> - TPM key support
<willcooke> Not blocked on anything.
<willcooke> #topic any other business
<willcooke> Ok
<desrt> hi
<willcooke> #topic desrt
<willcooke> desrt, hi!
<willcooke> paste away...
<desrt> - underwent a DST change
<desrt> - helped attente get started with mir-gtk hacking
<desrt> - kdbus reviews and discussions
<desrt> - fixing threading issues in glib file monitoring (GFileMonitor was never written to be threadsafe but a change in 2009 made the API multithreaded.  we start to notice problems with this now that GDesktopAppInfo uses file monitors from the GLib worker thread)
<desrt> eof
<willcooke> excellent, thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic more other business
<seb128> desrt, who is doing gtk-mir now?
<larsu> apparently attente_...
<desrt> seb128: it looks like attente_ will be leading the efforts but i'm helping as well
<seb128> larsu, like all the work?
<seb128> or just helping?
<seb128> bug #1388875
<ubot5> bug 1388875 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "[gtk-mir-backend] Clicking seems to confuse GTK (or the shell)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388875
<seb128> would would be the right person to look at ^?
<attente_> leading?
<desrt> seb128: i think attente is a good point of first contact
<willcooke> I mailed robert_ancell about that this morning as well
<seb128> k
<seb128> that's a bit confusing
<desrt> attente_: if stuff gets really hairy feel free to ping me or larsu or robert_ancell as people who know gtk insides...
<seb128> good that we have the weekly meeting, I tried to chase robert_ancell about that one, assuming he was still the one working on the backend
<larsu> desrt: you have one job: don't confuse seb128!
<attente_> ok
<seb128> anyway, let's not get off topic
<desrt> i meet with attente about once a week at the art gallery for a co-working afternoon -- we tend to discuss gtk stuff at this time
<seb128> willcooke, sorry for sidetracking the meeting ;-)
<willcooke> so we're agreed - attente_ will be first point of contact, and then we can go from there?
<seb128> wfm
<willcooke> seb128, no worries - it's "other business" ;)
<willcooke> attente_, happy with that?
<willcooke> you'll have plenty of support
<seb128> I'm a bit surprised it comes as a "made decision" without having being discussed there before
<seb128> but wfm
<willcooke> what's the relationship between the Gnome Xchat work and the gtk mir work?
<attente_> sure, trying it now
<desrt> willcooke: we're using various gtk apps as a way to drive the gtk-mir work
<desrt> ie: run it, play with it, see what breaks
<willcooke> right, makes sense
<desrt> "oh.. this doesn't work.... i wonder what we need to fix to make it work..."
<willcooke> seb128, happy with that?
<desrt> so i mean.. ultimately the goal is to have gtk-mir working nicely... but we express this goal by using apps as milestones
<willcooke> seems like a good way to exercise all the various bits and pieces
<seb128> desrt, right, but until now robert_ancell was the goto point for such issues
<seb128> which apparently change, good as long as everybody know
<desrt> seb128: i have to admit i didn't discuss this much with him but i don't think he touched the code in a while either....
<seb128> it's a bit frustrating that I tried to get robert when he's not the one working on that anymore
 * qengho expects a few "oh, this should ever have worked in old gtk either."
<qengho> Never
<desrt> qengho: ya... xchat needed some patches already :)
<seb128> I hope I didn't confuse him with my emails either
<willcooke> seb128, don't worry - I'll square it with him
<seb128> desrt, I think it would be good that we all sync up on who does what
<desrt> seb128: iirc we (you, me, will cooke) exchanged some emails on this topic...
<seb128> we seems to are misaligned atm
<seb128> desrt, about making xchat-gnome work on Mir?
<seb128> not about changing contact point for gtk-mir backend work
<seb128> anyway, let's just all sync up
<seb128> there is no issue
<seb128> just confusion
<desrt> k
 * willcooke will send an email to everyone involved 
<seb128> willcooke, thanks
<willcooke> I'll report back here so everyone knows what the score is
<willcooke> ok, so to other business...
<willcooke> next week (!!!) is UOS
<willcooke> we need to get some sessions scheduled
<willcooke> I'm thinking of this:
<willcooke> 1.  How do we support flavours in the move to Mir
<willcooke> 2.  How do we work with Firefox to support them in our move to Mir
<willcooke> 3.  System Image updates on the desktop - how & why
<qengho> mlankhorst: May I have your advice on this bug report? See the two videos in description. https://bugs.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/+bug/1383667
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1383667 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "UHD 4k Resolution Unity DE bug window in Chrome(mium) and Steam" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<willcooke> STEAMROLLER!
<willcooke> 4.  clicks & debs on the desktop.  They will need to live side by side I think.  So, how & why.
<willcooke> I know didrocks has a session of UDTC
<willcooke> what else should we have a session on?
<willcooke> Please let me know asap
<willcooke> either here or by email
<willcooke> and I'll get them scheduled
<didrocks> willcooke: I have another session on bluez, if we still want to do it this cycle
<willcooke> didrocks, great!  Yes - I'd still like to see if we can land that
<willcooke> everyone OK with that?
 * willcooke accepts silence as acceptance and willingness to chair a session.
<seb128> some of those sessions don't seem that useful
<desrt> flavours-move-to-mir for example...
<seb128> like "firefox to mir" is not something we are likely to resolve in a UOS session
<desrt> seems like the sort of discussion that everyone will stay away from in droves...
<seb128> especially with nobody maintaining firefox on our side
<seb128> bluez seems like a JDI
<didrocks> seb128: we need synchronization with KDE and other flavors on bluez
<seb128> cyphermox said he would do the merge, and everything else is just syncing with debian/patching
<didrocks> and we need to sync with cyphermox & co, their team didn't answer to emails yet
<seb128> didrocks, that sort of already happened over 2 cycles on -devel and launchpad bugs report, Debian finished the migration
<seb128> k
<didrocks> but if you have info from all of them, including 3rd party, that's great :)
<cyphermox> what emails?
<seb128> didrocks, I discussed it with cyphermox in Washington
<cyphermox> bluez still needs a new pulse first, and that's not released yet
<seb128> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1162781 has some details as well
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1162781 in bluez (Ubuntu) "bluez package out of date, 5.3 is available" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<didrocks> seb128: seems we need a plan for action still, to at least have the knowledge of everyone and not forgetting any flavors
<cyphermox> otherwise we break HSP -- hangouts with bluetooth headsets ;)
<didrocks> do you know if kde is happy to move to it this cycle?
<cyphermox> as far as I know they expect it just as much as we do
<didrocks> cyphermox: but better that said publically than implied, right?
<cyphermox> qt 5.4 adds more bluez5 support, and we don't have that yet either
<didrocks> and in advance, which was the goal of UDS sessions AFAIK
<seb128> didrocks, I think they are, Debian finished that migration
<didrocks> seb128: ok, if you want to do the migration without the session, be my guest :)
<willcooke> sounds like we have at least one good session :)
<seb128> feel free to have a session
<seb128> I guess it doesn't hurt
<willcooke> better to be explicit than implicit
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> at least, not having anyone telling "I didn't know"
<didrocks> right, which is the point
<cyphermox> yup
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'll subscribe you to the session
<cyphermox> didrocks: thanks
<cyphermox> make me required ;)
<didrocks> cyphermox: will do :)
<willcooke> so I need some more ideas for sessions then - we should have some "route to 16.04" discussions, which I think the system image updates and debs/clicks session are appropriate for, right?
<willcooke> but the other two are more tricky
<willcooke> so a couple more useful session ideas by email would be very helpful.
<willcooke> right - last call for any other business..... going in 10,
<willcooke> 5
<desrt> 0
<willcooke> gone
<willcooke> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  4 16:08:43 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-11-04-15.31.moin.txt
<seb128> willcooke, the issue is having useful session
<seb128> we can discuss what Mir needs to support desktop
<seb128> but we already discussed that and have bug recorded
<seb128> sessions are not going to help moving forward in any way imho
<willcooke> agreed
<willcooke> dpm, something for you to read ^^^^^^^^
<attente_> seb128: your button example seems to work against gtk master
<seb128> attente_, can you confirm the bug with the ubuntu version?
<willcooke> Public notice:  Bug #1386241
<ubot5> bug 1386241 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu Trusty) "Add the full IPP Everywhere support from Utopic to Trusty" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1386241
<willcooke> Please help test ^^^^
<willcooke> dgadomski, this might come across your desk in the future ^^^^
<dgadomski> willcooke: thanks, I will keep that in mind
<attente_> seb128: it's working with the ubuntu versions too
<seb128> attente_, weird, how are you testing?
<attente_> seb128: under the mir_demo_server_shell
<seb128> attente_, k, so maybe the issue is unity8 then
<seb128> because it doesn't work under unity8-desktop/desktop-next
<seb128> as I wrote in the bug report, that could be a shell issue
<attente_> could be, i'll try it under unity8
<seb128> thanks
<popey> willcooke: you need a cat, so you can reproduce bug 1389314 â»
<ubot5> bug 1389314 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Key stuck down causes compiz 100% cpu, PC unusable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389314
<ogra_> popey, you mean he doesnt have one ? how could he become a manager here !
 * ogra_ thought thats an acceptance criteria for getting a manager job
<popey> I know, right!
<willcooke> I've got a cat emulator
<willcooke> one for bregma and co I expect
<Laney> rsalveti: What is https://launchpadlibrarian.net/189046475/gst-plugins-good1.0_1.4.3-1ubuntu1_1.4.3-1ubuntu2.diff.gz and why is it Forwarded: no?
<Laney> Uploaded gnome-terminal to desktop ppa, please test
<Laney> I didn't get the migration problems pitti had
 * Laney is off, laters
<willcooke> tata Laney
<pitti> Laney: \o/
<pitti> Laney: so profile settings (background color, text color, font size, etc.) got migrated correctly for you?
<mlankhorst> qengho: with fglrx.. hard to do anything about it
<rsalveti> Laney: because it was not yet forwarded?
<rsalveti> Laney: this is a sync from RTM
<Laney> pitti: not transparency, but I updated the patch to do that, otherwise yeah
<Laney> rsalveti: I get that, I'm suggesting that instead of "no" it should be forwarded before uploading to Ubuntu.
<rsalveti> Laney: we know that, we'll hopefully be focusing on upstreaming these changes now that we're mostly done with the critical bug fixes
<Laney> It would be better to work the other way around
<Laney> Someone might even have commit access by now
<rsalveti> I completely agree, but unfortunately we didn't have time to work on that
<rsalveti> we basically only have jim to take care of all the multimedia stuff
<rsalveti> I asked for someone else to help on that like an year ago
<jhodapp> Laney: yeah, will be focusing on upstreaming bit by bit now, as rsalveti said
<jhodapp> Laney, it's my goal to completely get rid of our custom gstreamer package patches, at least for Ubuntu Phone
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-05
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<pitti> bonjour tout le monde
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: geht so -- ich habe bis um 1:00 gehackt :)
<pitti> seb128: et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<seb128> what did you hack on?
<seb128> oh, systemd
 * seb128 just reading g+
<larsu> hehe
<larsu> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu
<seb128> hey dednick
<dednick> seb128: hi
<seb128> dednick, how are you today?
<dednick> seb128: fine thanks. you? taken a look at the usc branch. wondering why we're doing this rather than supporting translations.
<dednick> seb128: since the only branch to change is usc.
<seb128> dednick, Saviq was arguing that usc shouldn't have translations for some reasons
<seb128> dednick, it's also a smaller change/easier/give us a translated string, so works better for rtm
<dednick> seb128: well, this isn't really any diff. I think Saviq was arguing that we shouldn't have translatable strings at all
<seb128> dednick, if we enable translations in usc now the langpacks are going to miss the string and it's going to take some time before it's there and used
<seb128> dednick, I'm fine working on enabling translations in usc next, that just seems the best rtm friendly solution
<dednick> seb128: if we're changing u8 to translate the "Call back" and "Send" strings, i'd rather put a passthrough property to that "Reply" string which u8 needs to set
<dednick> seb128: this bug isn't going to get rtm'ed though is it? it's not on the critical list
<seb128> dednick, https://code.launchpad.net/~tiagosh/telephony-service/add-translation-strings/+merge/240643
<seb128> dednick, I'm going to ask Pat about it, that's a visible string and bq ships in a non english country
<seb128> it's going to be at least ota1 I guess
<dednick> seb128: ok.
<dednick> seb128: i think the u8 fallback strings need to be translated anyway.
<seb128> dednick, well, feel free to reject, but as said that's a temporary workaround until we properly enable translations
<seb128> dednick, ok, I can mp that as well
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<dednick> seb128: cool. in that case, can you add a property to the usc SnapDecision for the replyPlaceholderText ? and override in u8?
<seb128> dednick, ok, rather than enabling translations in usc?
<didrocks> seb128: toujours en train de tousser :/ mais sinon, Ã§a va, et toi ?
<dednick> seb128: yah. there are still some requests for translations in there, but for the quick fix i think it's better.
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va bien, merci !
<dednick> seb128: should probably just remove the default strings all together from usc.
<seb128> dednick, well, the easiest one is the one I proposed ... you don't want that in as step1 ?
<seb128> dednick, it's the only solution that is going to give us a translated string on the UI without needing a langpacks update
<seb128> we can do the proper one in vivid then
<dednick> seb128: need to update the lang packs for the other strings though.
<seb128> yeah, but 1 is better than nothing
<seb128> and that's a cheap one liner
<pitti> seb128: systemd-shim to be precise
<pitti> Laney: I tested gnome-terminal from the PPA, profile migration still doesn't work at all
<seb128> pitti, yeah, saw your post
<dednick> seb128: heh. if we're landing 2 packages and lang packs, is 3 much worse?
<seb128> shrug
<pitti> Laney: with 3.6 and no gconf I switched the color schema (black on yellow) and a smaller font, then upgraded, restarted g-t, it was back on the defaults (white on black, big font)
<dednick> you could use the domain translate in u8 if you really want :)
<seb128> dednick, the point is that I doubt we are going to have an unity8 or langpack landing for rtm
<seb128> but well, I feel like I spent more time trying to argue than 1 liner than it's worth it
<dednick> seb128: as far as i know, there's loads of u8 langing
<seb128> so your call
<dednick> landing
<seb128> it's a 1 char change
<seb128> tr->dtr
<seb128> not sure why you push back so much on it
<dednick> seb128: because we have to change it later!
<seb128> we have to do another changeset to enable translation anyway
<seb128> which I'm working on
<seb128> and which is going to revert the workaround
<seb128> but meanwhile it doesn't hurt to land the workaround
<seb128> imho
<dednick> seb128: bah. whatever. ok, as long as you do the mps to fix properly now as well.
<seb128> yeah, that's on my todolist
<seb128> dednick, so do you think translations in usc are needed?
<seb128> there are more strings with i18n.tr()
<seb128> not sure they are used anywhere though
<dednick> seb128: no, they shouldn't be
<seb128> or would you just do the property thing and let unity8 define that?
<dednick> ya. property thing. all the strings are context sensitive
<seb128> k
<seb128> what happens if unity8 tries to use a non existant property?
<seb128> or asked differently, do we need to land usc before/in sync with unity8?
<dednick> seb128: hm. i think so. i think the component may not load
<dednick> cant remember
<seb128> I'm going to try
<seb128> but I might just land usc first
<dednick> or just get a "property does not exist"
<seb128> then update unity8
<seb128> easier than trying to land them in sync
<dednick> seb128: ok. well the u8 one should technically not be needed at this point since the telephony-service is proving the "Send" & "Call back" strings now
<seb128> right
<seb128> but I mean for the proper fix
<dednick> ok
<seb128> 1. add the property to usc
<seb128> 2. make unity8 set it
<dednick> yup
<seb128> dednick, thanks for the discussion
<seb128> I'm going to work on that/put mps up for review
<dednick> seb128: sorry for the arguement :)
<seb128> no problem!
<seb128> dednick, can you change the mp status to approved as well, for the workaround
<dednick> seb128: done
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> hey hey
<seb128> hey ukers
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> willcooke, the fix for the unity8 lockscreen/liveCD issue landed in vivid, we can update whatever instructions you had which suggested the "go to vt, change password" workaround
<seb128> didrocks, ^ fyi
<willcooke> seb128, excellent, thanks!
<willcooke> mhall119, we can remove the note from your blog post ^^^
<seb128> willcooke, didrocks, also, workaround for non starting unity8 is to remove qtubuntu-media
<willcooke> yeah, I saw conversations about that - very strange
<seb128> they are working on a proper fix
<seb128> but meanwhile
<seb128> willcooke, not so strange, it's back to the conversation we had in Washington with Jim, media-hub needs to be made to work on desktop as well
<seb128> though yeah, weird that it segfaults now when it was working
<willcooke> seb128, it sounded like Jim expected us to port media hub?
<seb128> well, you sort of told him we would do it...
<seb128> or that we could have a look
<seb128> imho we don't have the cycles to handle that
<willcooke> I agree
<didrocks> seb128: ah removing then!
<seb128> dpm, hey, can you review https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/build-translations-template/+merge/240696 ? if/when that lands, what do we need to change to the project setup so it prefers the ubuntu template to the trunk one?
<Laney> pitti: ah, it seems to be a problem with the default profile
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/g-t.mp4 <- non-"Default" working
<larsu> (a) transparent terminal?!
<Laney> best feature ever
<larsu> (b) why is that profile dialog so wide?
<larsu> another wide-window bug I haven't caught yet?
<Laney> i'm running gtk 3.14 there
<Laney> also I had to hack the .ui file to get the profile dialog to open ...
<Laney> Invalid property: GtkHScale.update_policy on line 2311
<larsu> hm, I wonder if that was ever a property...
<larsu> gtkrange apparently had it in the 1.x days
<larsu> ah, 2.x as well
<larsu> makes sense
<larsu> Laney: master doesn't have that
<Laney> I know
<Laney> but the gnome-terminal we have in the archive does
<larsu> gnome-3-14 branch also doesn't
<larsu> do you know where that comes from?
<Laney> we have 3.6
<larsu> oh, in _that_ version, right
<dpm> seb128, reviewed and added a comment
<seb128> dpm, thanks, that came before and is probably something we should look at
<dpm> seb128, as per the question of the project setup, there is nothing you need to change really. Optionally, you can disable the upstream translations, if you want, but if you could leave enabled there for a while, you'd do me a favour, as the stats page cannot yet count the stats from source packages, as I'm pending on an export from LP
<seb128> dpm, well, since the translations are shared, what template is going to "win"?
<dpm> seb128, ah, no template "wins" - it doesn't matter where you do the translation, they are changed instantly on both sides
<seb128> dpm, right, but what if the template in trunk is outdated and the one in ubuntu has extra strings?
<seb128> do we get 2 different lists depending of where you go on launchpad?
<seb128> isn't that going to confuse translators?
<dpm> seb128, ah, sorry. So there are two templates then, and only the identical strings are shared. But as soon as both templates are in sync, then the translations are fetched from the database and populated on both sides. Indeed, it's not an ideal situation, that's why I'm asking for it to be temporary.
<seb128> k
<seb128> dpm, I though it would make sense to disable the trunk template and use the ubuntu one as shared to avoid the confusion
<dpm> seb128, yeah, but if you could leave it there for a while, that'd be great, as u-s-s takes a big chunk of the translations stats. I'm trying to get a stats export from LP to get the stats counted from the source packages, but it's not there yet
<dpm> so let me ping Colin about this again
<seb128> dpm, ok
<dpm> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw, thanks for the review!
<dpm> np, my pleasure to get more automation in translations :)
 * didrocks upgrades to vivid!
<didrocks> after doing a lot of removal to avoid getting rpm3 ;)
<ochosi> hey folks, quick question, does anybody here know when status.ubuntu.com will switch to V? (it still redirects to -u by default)
<Laney> ochosi: maybe dpm knows
<ochosi> seb128: btw, thanks for the pointer, robert_ancell said he'll improve the patch for simple-scan
<Laney> I think it's his team which does that?
 * Laney guesses semi wildly
<dpm> Laney, ochosi, I don't know, sorry. It's generally cjohnston who does (or used to do) that
<ochosi> ok, thanks Laney :)
<ochosi> dpm: used to? i hope you're not abandoning it, it's quite a useful tool to keep an overview
<seb128> ochosi, yw!
<ochosi> dpm: thanks for the heads up anyway, at least now i know who i should go after :)
<seb128> ochosi, don't worry about status, it's not abandoned
<seb128> willcooke plans to use it for our team this cycle
<ochosi> yeah, was just guessing because i saw that kubuntu doesn't use it anymore
<seb128> so he's likely going to make sure that things work
<ochosi> ok cool
<seb128> ochosi, what is kubuntu using?
<ochosi> trello afaik
<ochosi> we also evaluated it this cycle vs. launchpad
<ochosi> launchpad is really great and blueprints make sense and all, but it feels quite slow and heavy at times
<seb128> k
<ochosi> but yeah, we still decided to go back to it
<seb128> well, the main advantage is that it's integrated in our process
<ochosi> its benefits by fair outweigh the performance penalty
<seb128> like you can make launchpad bugs part of the blueprint items
<ochosi> yeah, exactly
<ochosi> i saw a few nice mockups on how to meaningfully integrate the burndown chart in websites targeted at developers/potential contributors
<ochosi> would be nice to see something like it on the ubuntu website too
<dpm> ochosi, sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I meant "cjohnston used to do it", as in "I don't know if someone else does it now"
<ochosi> dpm: ok, thanks :)
<Laney> pitti: no, sorry, it's working for the default profile for me now
<Laney> maybe someone else could try it and see
<Laney> blargggggggggggg
<Laney> now it doesn't work
<Laney> what is going on here
<pitti> Laney: ah
<pitti> Laney: yeah, I was pretty sure it worked for me a few weeks ago too
<pitti> Laney: where "me" is "fresh user account, do the same config changes in g-t, then upgrade"
<pitti> Laney: so, if that's somehow specific to my system, I don't mind reconfiguring my terminal
<pitti> but I guess if it happens for most/all users it's a bit awkward
<pitti> Laney: if you  have a succeeding case, what's the output of gnome-terminal-migrate? does that say more than just the three lines?
<Laney> what's gnome-terminal-migrate?
<Laney> I've just been running the server
<Laney> haha
<Laney> my grep was wrong so I didn't see the binary
<mlankhorst> oh seb128 here?
<Laney> pitti: aaaaaaha
<pitti> Laney: that sounds like enlightenment?
<Laney> If you gconftool --recursive-unset
<Laney> then it removes /apps/gnome-terminal/global which isn't always recreated
<Laney> and if this isn't there the migration doesn't happen
<Laney> so in old g-t if I go to Profiles and get that re-created then it migrates
<pitti> ah! so gnome-terminal-migration needs to do/fake that?
<Laney> maybe it can assume "Default" if there's no value there
<Laney> or if there's only one profile then this must be the default one
<mlankhorst> who do I poke for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1388738 ? I don't think it's a driver bug. although initially screen cursor is apparantly not set
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1388738 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "No cursor while compositing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mdeslaur> seb128: is there a better way of doing this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8835187/
<seb128> hey mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> seb128: or is getenv still the good way
<mdeslaur> seb128: oh! you just got here, hi!
<seb128> mdeslaur, getenv is still the good way, and IRC dropped during lunch not sure why
<mdeslaur> seb128: are we getting proper support in vivid soon, or is it worth uploading and SRUing to utopic?
<seb128> I didn't look at the gnote ui/code, but for e.g evince we keep the headerbar, we just don't set it as a titlebar and hide the close button, so it becomes a toolbar
<seb128> it might make the patch smaller to do that if you can
<seb128> mdeslaur, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/evince/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/unity_normal_titlebar.patch
<seb128> just for reference
<mlankhorst> seb128: who do I poke about gsd cursor bugs?
<seb128> mlankhorst, what sort of bugs? that seems xorg related so yourself? ;-)
<seb128> but otherwise we don't have an assigned maintainer, just ask on the channel
<seb128> usually it's Laney, robert_ancell or myself looking at such issues
<mlankhorst> ok
 * larsu offers to help as well
<mlankhorst> I'll try to reproduce it first, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1388738
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1388738 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "No cursor while compositing" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mdeslaur> seb128: ah, interesting, I'll see if I can do something similar, thanks
<seb128> larsu, sorry for not listing you there
<seb128> that's what you get when you list names ;-)
<seb128> mdeslaur, otherwise "proper" support is coming in vivid, that's probably not going to be SRUed
<larsu> no worries!
<mdeslaur> seb128: so not worth uploading then?
<seb128> mdeslaur, knowing that "proper" support means that those should have borders, etc, they are still going to look/act slightly inconsistently compared to native decoration, but we don't plan to patch the universe, mostly the default apps to have a good out of the box experience
<seb128> mdeslaur, you have it ready, upload, it's going to take some time before unity changes land imho
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, thanks. I'll work on a better patch, and I'll upload
<seb128> thanks
<Saviq-codedive> anyone else's laptop not allowing screen brightness adjustment any more in vivid?
<Saviq-codedive> neither Fn+Sun keys or the control center work (no slider at all there)
<Laney> wee, looks like this works... maybe...
 * Laney PPAifies
 * Laney goes for a celebratory lunch at the cafe
<Laney> biab
<willcooke> Saviq-codedive, thinkpad?
<Saviq-codedive> willcooke, no, XPS12
<willcooke> Saviq-codedive, not this then: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1308674
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1308674 in linux (Ubuntu) "[Lenovo ThinkPad X220] kernel 3.13 i915 brightness settings broken when going from docked -> undocked" [Medium,Incomplete]
<willcooke> which smells like a kernel issue to me
<Saviq-codedive> willcooke, no, no dock available here
<Saviq-codedive> willcooke, weird thing is, I got the /sys/ thingies, and can echo into them to change brightness, there's just no UI
<willcooke> oh, totally different thing then, sorry
<willcooke> good luck with fixing it ;D
<Laney> pitti: care to try ppa1?
<pitti> Laney: doing
 * Laney suddenly remembers to sign seb128's key
<seb128> Laney, :-)
<Laney> where's that slip ...
<pitti> oh, right!
<pitti> seb128: hang on, did I already do that? ^ I don't have the slip any more
<pitti> ah yes, I did
<seb128> pitti, yes you did, thanks ;-)
<pitti> Laney: *hug*
<pitti> Laney: working great now!
 * pitti tries with his own user account, brb
<Laney> haha
<Laney> had been through the wash
<Laney> still more or less readable if I can unfold without it turning to dust
<pitti> Laney: works mostly well, too (profile migration)
<pitti> Laney: the one thing that's annoying is that it now eats Alt+<Number> apparently
<pitti> i. e. I can't switch between channels in weechat any more
<pitti> Laney: but other than that, ship it! :-)
<Laney> hmm
<pitti> meh, alt+j too?
<Laney> that's supposed to be migrated too, global shortcuts?
<pitti> it's not a gnome shortcut
<Laney> global to all of g-t
<Laney> Preferences->Enable mnemonics or so?
<pitti> it's supposed to go to the app that runs in the terminal
<Laney> also other shortcuts in there
<Laney> like Switch to Tab x
<pitti> Laney: ah, it does have that (but so did the old g-t)
<Laney> yes, these should be migrated
<pitti> if I had tabs, alt+n switched between those
<pitti> but if I didn't have tabs, alt+<n> worked
<Laney> if not then it's a bug
<pitti> ... I mean, were passed to the app
<pitti> Laney: that's not a migration issue (that part works fine)
<pitti> I didn't change them in gconf or anywhere, that was the default behaviour
<Laney> you hadn't unbound alt-<numbers> in old gt?
<pitti> no
<pitti> also, alt+j isn't defined as shortcut but is also eatn
<pitti> and apparently the same is true for just about any alt+<something>
<Laney> tried the mnemonics setting?
<pitti> not sure what that is (need to restart in English)
<pitti> but almost everything (except F10 for the menu) is off
 * Laney tries
<Laney> wfm :(
<pitti> Laney: alt+something?
<Laney> same as in 3.6 for me
<Laney> alt+X switches tabs by default, happens on my utopic system too
<Laney> alt-j works, takes me to #debian-derivatives, alt-q to #ubuntu-motu
<Laney> and if I clear the keybindings they migrate to disabled properly, then alt-X works to switch to 0-9
<pitti> Laney: confirmed, if I disable the keybindings for "switch to tab", they start workin in IRC
<pitti> before, they kind of worked in both
<pitti> I bet it's a feature, "consistency"
<pitti> if there was no tab, older g-t sent alt+n to the application
<Laney> it's weird because in 3.6 I cleared those keybindings for just this reason
<Laney> ahh, in the no tabs case
<pitti> alt+j is still broken, though
<Laney> indeed, confirmed
<pitti> Laney: anyway, don't just block it on this issue; we need to get away from this ancient version and gconf at some point, and such stuff is fixable
<larsu> is this the last thing using gconf?
<pitti> on my system, anyway
<pitti> oh, and .gconf/apps/nm-applet/%gconf.xml
<pitti> (WTH)
<pitti> although I'm not sure whether that's real
<pitti> <entry name="stamp" mtime="1415034936" type="int" value="3"/>
<larsu> indicator-network is ready for desktop any day now!
<pitti> that's the only line in it (aside from <gconf> and xml version)
<Laney> larsu: can you try the ppa version?
<larsu> Laney: do I need vivid for that?
<larsu> in any case: yes I will
<larsu> if I need vivid, it might take a bit longer
 * larsu hasn't upgraded yet
<Laney> you should be able to manually install the debs on utopic
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
<Laney> I quite like the hideous theme I created while testing migrations
<Laney> semi transparent red background with size 26 text
<willcooke> ship it
<Laney> needs moar wingdings
<larsu> hot dog theme!
<Laney> woah
<Laney> getting a cool dash bug
<Laney> hope this screencasts
<larsu> ooh, a menu bar
<larsu> (ooh, that's my override)
<larsu> Laney: it's transparent, even though I have tht option off before
<Laney> hmm
<larsu> ah, it only has "use transparency from system theme" checked
<larsu> which didn't exist before?!
<larsu> also showing scrollbar, which I hadn't before
<Laney> http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/dash.mp4
<willcooke> :/
<larsu> awesome!
<seb128> kenvandine, do you keep the "drop dialog hack" from kalikiana out of u-s-s landings for a reason?
<kenvandine> seb128, yes...
<kenvandine> it depends on a uitk version that hasn't landed in vivid yet
<kenvandine> unless they've landed something this week
<kenvandine> last i checked it was way outdated in vivid
<seb128> shrug
<kenvandine> yeah, still not there
<kenvandine> :/
<Laney> larsu: hmm, not confirmed, solid background is migrated here
<kenvandine> it needs a version that landed in rtm on the 15th i think
<Laney> also I made it set that theme one to false when migrating unconditionally
<Laney> did you get ppa1?
<seb128> kenvandine, sorry for the stupid question, I didn't think vivid could be behind rtm, that's stupid
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> i said the same thing when i tried to land it last week
<larsu> Laney: yes
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> larsu: if you do /usr/lib/gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal-migration --clean --force --verbose do you see it migrating your profile and does it then work?
<kenvandine> seb128, i loved seeing your update pot branch...
<Laney> kill the server if it's running
<kenvandine> seb128, my only question is what about getting the updated pot committed back to trunk?  or does this mean we can drop it in trunk?
<seb128> kenvandine, eparse
<seb128> kenvandine, oh
<larsu> Laney: yes, that worked
<Laney> okay
<Laney> did you run 3.12 before?
<larsu> Laney: my other profile is back now, too
<seb128> kenvandine, I discussed that earlier with dpm, basically he wants to keep trunk for stats until launchpad can pull stats from ubuntu
<Laney> maybe when testing rishi's patch last cycle
<seb128> kenvandine, but basically we are going to turn the trunk one off and use the ubuntu template
<larsu> Laney: yes, I about-boxed. I did have a 3.6 instance on another desktop running
<larsu> Laney: oh, _before_. Yes I did
<larsu> thanks for the work!
<Laney> it probably didn't re-run the migration then
<larsu> seems likely
<Laney> this seems shippable
<Laney> do you have the alt-j bug that pi_tti was reporting?
<dpm> ah, seb128, I think that's something I asked already a while ago, but can't remember what the plan was - is u-s-s going to eventually be migrated to a click package?
<seb128> dpm, I think that's wanted, I don't know of any plan to make that actually happen, so dunno
<seb128> kenvandine, ^?
<dpm> ok
<larsu> Laney: how can I find out?
<larsu> hm, command line is different now
<larsu> no more --class and --disable-factory
<Laney> e.g. irssi window switching
<kenvandine> seb128, it's been talked about... but not something i'm excited about
<seb128> kenvandine, same here
<seb128> dpm, I guess "not in the near futur" then
<larsu> Laney: argh, Alt+N is broken
<seb128> dpm, I guess we need to revisit the pot update if/when that happens though
<larsu> Laney: Alt+<number>
<Laney> yeah, we discussed that
<Laney> you need to clear the shortcuts
<dpm> seb128, exactly, that's why I was asking
<kenvandine> it wouldn't be trivial to make it click
<seb128> kenvandine, let's no worry about it and enjoy auto pot update meanwhile then
<kenvandine> and with convergence... i see uss as something that needs to stay deb
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> seb128, to prevent confusion, i'd like to remove the pot file from trunk
<larsu> Laney: that's annoying... how can I disable them completely without setting a new one?
<ogra_> kenvandine, what makes you think desktop "stays deb" ?
<Laney> backspace
<kenvandine> dpm, when do you think we can do that?
<kenvandine> ogra_, well... i mostly mean keep it updated via the system update
<kenvandine> etc
<ogra_> yeah
<Laney> maybe this is fixable
<kenvandine> like it shouldn't be in the click store
<tedg> desrt, Can we change g_variant_print() to take in a const variant? It sucks that I have to cast away my const to print it.
<seb128> kenvandine, dpm wants to keep it for the stats, at least until launchpad get fixed to get stats from the ubuntu package as well (or something around those lines, not sure I understood the stats details)
<desrt> tedg: there's no such thing as a const GVariant
<kenvandine> seb128, understood
<tedg> desrt, I'm confused, aren't there functions that don't modify the contents of the variant?
<desrt> tedg: probably not
<desrt> GVariant internally is a rather complicated state machine that can undergo all sorts of transitions at almost any time
<desrt> in response to relatively innocent API requests
<tedg> You're making me nervous about printing themâ¦
<desrt> i considered at one point using 'const' to mark "you don't own the ref to this" (which is the only meaningful thing to consider talking about since GVariant is always immutable from a value identity standpoint) but i abandoned it on account of not *strictly* being true by the C sense of the word 'const'
<desrt> tedg: even refcounting modifies the struct...
<desrt> tl;dr: never write 'const GVariant *'
<desrt> same way we never have const on GtkWidget or anything else
 * desrt doesn't pass around const GHashTable just because he only plans on doing lookups...
<tedg> It's also a compiler optimization, i.e. if I know it won't change I can parallelize.
<desrt> the compiler has no idea what's happening once you do the function call and it's a opaque type so you can't access it yourself anyway
<desrt> so it can't possibly make a difference
<desrt> we could argue for annotating some GVariant functions with pure/const if you're concerned about performance/optimisation
<desrt> but i haven't really heard any calls for that sort of thing since most GVariant code tends to be pretty straight-up
<desrt> (not like GObject stuff where you may do multiple typechecks of the same instance due to preconditions, casts, etc)
<tedg> I think that probably the more practical case for not having const actually is that most functions do a ref_sink()/unref() pair on any variants coming in.
<desrt> most don't, actually
<desrt> just the ones that 'build'
<desrt> but it is a good illustrative example indeed...
<desrt> you would expect to be able to put a GVariant into a container without "modifying" it
<desrt> but indeed this is definitely a refcounting operation at the least
<desrt> (ditto setting a value to gsettings, sending a dbus message, etc etc)
<desrt> fwiw i considered the 'const' thing specifically because i was sure it wouldn't change the compiler's behaviour
<desrt> ie: we probably would have gotten away with lying
<desrt> but it just seemed so evil.... and didn't match existing practice with other types in glib
<tedg> Well, I never encourage lying, that always gets you into #ifdef SOLARIS_1_2 type code real quick.
<desrt> #ifdef COMPILER_IS_WISE_TO_US ...
<desrt> ya... i was imagining the promised future of whole program optimisation
<desrt> still waiting on that ;)
<tedg> It'll come right before the year of the Linux Desktop, it's what's holding us back.
<desrt> but uh... imagine this as a thought exercise:
<desrt> void gv_func(GVariant *x) { ... }
<desrt> void gv_const_func (const GVariant *x) {
<desrt>   GVariant *y = NULL;
<desrt>   while (y != x) y++;
<desrt>   gv_func (y);
<desrt> }
<desrt> this is the sort of thought exercise i was considering at the time...
<desrt> ie: even if you pass a const pointer to a function, it's still possible to imagine a function that could modify what's at the end of that pointer without any 'evil' casts
<desrt> you could even do it 'efficiently' by having a global hashtable of all references and do a lookup
<tedg> Sure, but that's arguably as "evil". I don't think that should be expected to work. It's like all conventions, they're breakable, but then people don't trust you.
<desrt> tl;dr: never write 'const GVariant *'  :)
<tedg> Heh
 * Laney ships gnome-terminal
<Laney> I think the alt-numbers thing might be annoying but we'll see
<larsu> Laney: \o/
<Laney> I'll note it in the changelog anwyay
<Laney> larsu: oh I noticed that if you have transparency on then the inactive tab has a transparent background
<Laney> using gtk 3.14, don't know if that makes a difference there
<larsu> it does
<larsu> bug bug bug
<larsu> hm, transparent bg + tabs looks _really_ ugly
<larsu> no wonder it's not upstream anymore ;)
<larsu> it might be better in adwaita
<kenvandine> seb128, fyi, i've prepared updates for syncevolution and libsynthesis for vivid, but won't upload until i get a thumbs up from renato
<kenvandine> seb128, i merged from debian first then updated to the latest release which has some interesting fixes for us
<kenvandine> seb128, just in case that's on someone's list of desktop updates to do :)
<seb128> kenvandine, great!
<kenvandine> i guess i could put that on the etherpad, do you guys still use that?
<Laney> I recommend the versions page or MoM
<kenvandine> haha... i guess not :)
<Laney> (that is to say: no)
<kenvandine> things to not forget for R
<kenvandine> ancient
<Laney> someone set -t so that we can purge that from the topic
<Laney> seb128: /msg chanserv op #ubuntu-desktop /mode #ubuntu-desktop -t plz
<seb128> Laney, " #ubuntu-desktop t ntcs :MODE cannot be set due to channel having an active MLOCK restriction policy"
<Laney> what is that
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> have fun ;-)
<Laney> seb128: try this /msg chanserv set #ubuntu-desktop mlock +
 * Laney googles
<Laney> winning
<seb128> Laney, seems that worked
* Laney changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Welcome to the Desktop Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For support please join #ubuntu
<seb128> there we go
<dednick> seb128: hey. any more review comments on the USS check sync branch?
<dednick> seb128: trying to get it in a silo
<dednick> asap
<seb128> dednick, let me have a look now
<dednick> seb128: ta
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ if you want to look at that one as well
<seb128> dednick, yw, sorry that review is taking time
<Laney> oh good, I started a let's complain about gnome-terminal thread
<willcooke> someone had to do it
<willcooke> ;p
<didrocks> Laney: nice! :)
<mhall119> didrocks: ping
<seb128> we still have people doing contentless pings here?
<seb128> mhall119, you can do better than that ;-)
<mhall119> :-P
<mhall119> I wanted to make sure he was around before typing something long
<mhall119> my fingers are lazy
<didrocks> mhall119: pong
<seb128> mhall119, lame excuse ;-)
<didrocks>  /quit ;)
<mhall119> seb128: fingers are too lazy to form a good excuse
<mhall119> didrocks: I used udtc to install android studio, created a new project, but right off the bat it's giving me Gradle sync errors, am I missing something?
<didrocks> mhall119: hum, no, you shouldn't, are you trying on utopic?
<didrocks> mhall119: it's downloading Gradle on first launch
<didrocks> and which version of android studio?
<didrocks> (they changed some Gradle things in the latest, forcing Gradle to update, but it was working for me on trusty)
<didrocks> mhall119: ?
<mhall119> didrocks: sorry got pulled away to the kitchen
<mhall119> 0.8.14 of android studio
<mhall119> and yes I'm on utopic
<didrocks> was it the version you just installed or upgraded from an older one?
<mhall119> I installed it yesterday (I think, could have been Monday)
<didrocks> ok, so you just downloaded the latest Gradle option and got in the "no automatic SDK configuration" though
<didrocks> what is the error you are seeing?
<mhall119> I never did anything that specified gradle
<mhall119> I ran "udtc android"
<didrocks> you started android studio! and that's what is installing gradle :)
<mhall119> ah, ok
<didrocks> (it's their build system)
<didrocks> in beta
<mhall119> well it did something wrong, want me to pastebin the idea.log?
<didrocks> sure
<mhall119> as long as it's not Maven, I'll use the beta
<didrocks> you can as well bet it's the download which failed
<didrocks> so you can:
<didrocks> stop android studio
<mhall119> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8838579/ looks like I installed it yesterday
<didrocks> rm ~/.gradle
<didrocks> -r
<mhall119> then re-run studio?
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> it will redownload and resetup gradle
<didrocks> I don't see any error on your last launch, what is it telling you exactly?
<mhall119> not much
<didrocks> the error that you saw? :)
<mhall119> let me get it up again and I'll tell you
<didrocks> ok
<mhall119> it starts with "Gradle project sync in progress...." in a yellow bar above the editor pane
<didrocks> yeah, and that will take some time the first time
<mhall119> and some Gradle info messages going on in the bottom bar
<didrocks> that's "normal"
<didrocks> (only on first launch while you let the gradle configuration happening until the end)
<didrocks> mhall119: it can be quite long, gradle is ~500M
<mhall119> didrocks: https://www.dropbox.com/s/73jvfl7aaqg5sbx/Screenshot%20from%202014-11-05%2012%3A24%3A47.png?dl=0
<mhall119> easier to show a screenshot than to try and describe it
<didrocks> ah, that's different :)
<didrocks> you don't have downloaded the support library
<mhall119> Error:Failed to find: com.android.support:support-v4:20.+
<mhall119> <a href="openFile">Open File</a><br><a href="open.dependency.in.project.structure">Open in Project Structure dialog</a>
<didrocks> you have set a newer sdk
<mhall119> I guess that's the important bit
<didrocks> and you wanted to support older ones
<mhall119> I used the default option
<didrocks> so you want the "backport of features"
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> that was installed by default before this week-end release
<didrocks> (as they don't install the sdk by default anymore :/)
<didrocks> I guess you had fun with that one (see my blog post about it)
<didrocks> so, ok, to install it:
<didrocks> Tools -> Android -> SDK manager
<mhall119> ok
<didrocks> in Extras, check:
<didrocks> Android Support Repository and Android Support Library
<didrocks> then press Install
<mhall119> installing...
<mhall119> is this the "use newer APIs on older versions of Android" package?
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> like having headerbar in Android 2.x
<mhall119> ok, downloading slowly, might take a few
<didrocks> basically, they backport the new APIs in a library for older version of Android
<didrocks> just a world of warning, the import differs
<mhall119> yeah,  I'd read about that
<didrocks> but the template by default, if you checked the "use newerâ¦" have the right imports
<didrocks> and the API can slightly differ
<didrocks> they often have "compat" in their names
<mhall119> fragmentation fun
<didrocks> yeah, not sure why the API is different
<didrocks> apart from the one you have to import
<didrocks> like instead of Activity, it's FragmentActivity
<didrocks> to get Fragment support in 2.x
<didrocks> (and believe me, you want it :))
<mhall119> I just read an anti-Fragments blog post
<didrocks> interesting, the guy is anti-progressive-enhancement as well and anti-convergence? :)
<mhall119> it was more of a "This is a great idea in theory, but in practice it just makes things harder"
<mhall119> I'm not sure I'll be using Fragments anyway
<didrocks> the thing is that it's really easy to use it wrong
<didrocks> but if you read content on how to use it right, it helps moving the abstraction at the right position
<didrocks> level*
<didrocks> (basically one fragment shouldn't know about any other fragment, but just about the API that they require their containing activity implements)
<didrocks> mhall119: ok, I'm heading out. Do not hesitate if you have any questions or you need any help on your project!
<willcooke> quitin' time
<willcooke> g'night
<ogra_> enjoy
<Laney> me too
<Laney> fireworks tonight
<seb128> Laney, what occasion?
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<czajkowski> seb128: Guy fawkes over here
<czajkowski> much fireworks
<davmor2> I have some going off over the road  very nice display :)
<robert_ancell> desrt, how are you generating debian/patches/mir-backend.patch using git?
<desrt> robert_ancell: git format-patch --stdout
<robert_ancell> desrt, yeah, but how do you combine all the mir patches and backport to 3.14?
<desrt> robert_ancell: i backported the one that was on master
<desrt> robert_ancell: but larsu already made a new package
<robert_ancell> I've done two updates to it
<desrt> two more commits, you mean?
<robert_ancell> yep
<desrt> did you put them on master upstream?
<robert_ancell> yep
<desrt> so then you can combine them with git-format-patch HEAD^^ (two ^^ for two patches)
<robert_ancell> but they're interleaved with other changes...
<desrt> you can use any commit-range specification with format-patch
<desrt> so if the commit is abcd then abcd^..abcd would work
<robert_ancell> so if I have changes a b and c I can do something like a^..a b^..b c^..c?
<desrt> i think you'd have to do that as 3 separate commands
<robert_ancell> so how do I make one patch with git?
<desrt> rebase squash
<robert_ancell> cherry pick the three changes to a local branch then merge them?
<desrt> sounds good
<desrt> you could also do git-diff on the subdir but you won't get the nice format for the patch
<robert_ancell> desrt, can we maintain a 3.14 branch on GNOME git with the backported changes? i.e. can you do a rebase and push without screwing up other users of that branch?
<robert_ancell> In bzr I'd maintain a branch with bzr merges and use bzr diff --old to make this patch
<robert_ancell> Not sure if there is git equivalent
<desrt> robert_ancell: interesting question
<desrt> you want to follow 3.14 but with our changes?
<robert_ancell> we need that for vivid
<robert_ancell> I have a local branch which I just used to generate an updated patch, but it would be nice to share that with everyone else
<desrt> what we could do is create a new branch from what you have now and regularly merge in 3.14
<desrt> and also cherry-pick from master to the same branch
<desrt> that would be fast-forward friendly
<robert_ancell> desrt, can we rebase then push that?
<desrt> why rebase?
<robert_ancell> To keep the last commit just the Mir changes
<desrt> ahh
<desrt> you're right -- this is tricky :)
<robert_ancell> That would be frowned upon in bzr (you'd have to do a bzr push --overwrite)
<desrt> what we could always do is diff that branch to 3.14 stock that we just merged in
<desrt> which would give us only the mir changes, by definition
<robert_ancell> But bzr diff --old (parent branch) would make the nice diff for us
<robert_ancell> oh, can you just diff two branches?
<desrt> yes
<robert_ancell> syntax for that?
<desrt> git diff branch1 branch2
<desrt> or in general two commit ids
<robert_ancell> yeah, that makes it minus the nice header
<robert_ancell> git format-patch gtk-3-14..mir-3-14 seems to work too
<desrt> neat
<desrt> what does it put in the commit message, though?
<desrt> or does it just make a huge series of patches?
<robert_ancell> No format-patch makes two patches so that wont work
<robert_ancell> I guess we just use git diff and put a DEP header on it
<desrt> ya so like.... diff
<desrt> because really, what would you expect to be int he commit message of the nicely-formatted one?
<robert_ancell> I hoped it might prompt me :)
<desrt> you surely joke :)
<desrt> this is meant to be used as part of a pipe
<desrt> (also:... git doesn't ask questions) ;)
<robert_ancell> The nicer plugins/functions do e.g. rebase
<robert_ancell> It's the old grumpy basic ones that don't
<desrt> >:|
<sarnold> desrt:  < robert_ancell> The nicer plugins/functions do e.g. rebase < robert_ancell> It's the old grumpy basic ones that don't
<robert_ancell> sarnold, ta
<RAOF> robert_ancell, desrt: You gents wouldn't happen to know offhand if there's anything that would usefully call gtk_window_set_transient_for() multiple times? I can't think of a usecase for it.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, i.e. an application?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Oh, I meant for the same window.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, but an application calling that or GTK+ itself?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: Either.
<desrt> RAOF: this seems like an odd question.  why do you ask it
<robert_ancell> I can't think of anything needing to migrate transient status
<RAOF> desrt: I want to know if there's any need to allow reparenting.
<robert_ancell> I could imagine badly written apps might call it multiple times
<desrt> RAOF: let's go with no
<desrt> we have a warning in gtk right now that if you try to create a dialog without a parent you get a warning
<desrt> we could probably add one for trying to reparent a shown window
<RAOF> Superb.
<desrt> file a bug about that maybe?
<RAOF> GNOME bugzilla?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> the new warning would be similar in spirit to one we already have (and even more sensible, in my opinion)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-06
<RAOF> desrt: Enjoy https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739697
<ubot5> Gnome bug 739697 in .General "GTK should warn when reparenting a shown window" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> brb
<desrt> hmm... the one time a year i restart my irc host and now i've forgotten yet again how to connect to canonical irc :)
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> lut pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bonjour seb128 ! trÃ¨s bien, merci !
<pitti> et toi ?
<seb128> trÃ¨s bien aussi, merci ;-)
<larsu> guten morgen!
<seb128> larsu, howdy!
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: encore des petits trucs dans la gorge et donc de la toux, mais sinon, Ã§a va !
<didrocks> et toi ?
<pitti> hey larsu
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<mvo> hey seb128, didrocks,pitti and larsu!
 * pitti waves to mvo, guten Morgen!
<didrocks> guten tag pitti & mvo!
<seb128> didrocks, Ã§a va bien merci
<seb128> hey mvo
<pitti> l'Ã©quipe du bureau se leve !
<didrocks> pitti: le fait d'Ãªtre + ou - malade me fait me lever plus tard, oui :)
<seb128> pitti, certains Ã©taient dÃ©jÃ  rÃ©veillÃ©s ,-)
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: oui - les gens comme seb128 qui se leve trÃ¨s tard tous le jours !
<seb128> lol
<pitti> je 'nai jamais pensÃ© Ã§a il y a quelques mois :)
<seb128> pitti, moi non plus ;-)
<pitti> seb128: est-ce que ce signifie que nous devenons plus vieux :(
<seb128> c'est possible...
<pitti> ok, so how do we stop nm-applet from writing a pointless .gconf/apps/nm-applet/%gconf.xml
<pitti> it's an outright insult now that it seems to be the only thing still using gconf..
<willcooke> bonjour madame
<pitti> willcooke: "madame"?
<pitti> bonjour willcooke
<pitti> willcooke: je vois seulement des hommes ici :/
<willcooke> :D
<TheMuso`> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> hi TheMuso` - just getting the little one ready for school and I'll be with you
<TheMuso`> np
<seb128> hey willcooke TheMuso`
<seb128> didrocks, willcooke, just as another fyi, qtubuntu-media has been fixed in vivid, current desktop-next daily should start and let you log-in now, robert_ancell also have a fix for the "can't click in gtk" issue ... improvements! ;-)
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> good start to the day
<didrocks> seb128: nice! will give it a try :)
<willcooke> All of a sudden I've got lots of email from the devel mailing list in my inbox
 * larsu just got an email: "Indicator scroll event broken from Python for 2 years already. Fix is one line. Can you please fix it."
<willcooke> I wonder if this is more spam from that nutter yesterday
<willcooke> e.g.
<willcooke> "I am using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS working on a 64 bit AMD. "
<pitti> yeah, I just got a ton of ubuntu-devel@ mail from 2010
<willcooke> oh, yes - it's 2010
<pitti> someone who is subscribed apparently bounced a whole lot of old mail
<didrocks> yeah, quite annoying
<willcooke> libreoffice update this morning too - thanks Sweetshark
 * seb128 grrs at the new gtk
<seb128> http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtkfs.png
<seb128> new - old (fileselector)
<willcooke> oh yeah
<seb128> It looks like they are trying to push some touch ui on desktop
<seb128> looks weird to me
<willcooke> I hate people who do that
<willcooke> ;)
<seb128> I wonder if that's just because it changed or if it really looks weird
<seb128> willcooke, irony?
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I really think it looks less good
<seb128> I wonder if we should tweak it back
<willcooke> +1
<seb128> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/newgcc.png btw
<seb128> u-c-c with the new version
 * seb128 opens some bugs for tracking
<larsu> seb128: yep, theming is first on my list. Thanks
<seb128> larsu, do you want bug reports for those?
<larsu> seb128: for now it's fine if you report them here (too many for individual bugs)
 * larsu has a list as well...
<seb128> larsu, do you want a bug for the combo issue?
<larsu> seb128: yes, please
<seb128> larsu, I'm tooking notes on http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
<seb128> easier than bug reports/keeping track from IRC
<larsu> cool thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> feel free to annotate/add things
<seb128> larsu, checkboxes not having a border, bug or design choice?
<larsu> bug
<seb128> it's ok for checked one, but you don't even know there is something you can tick for unchecked ones
<seb128> k
<seb128> added it to the list
<larsu> oh, we get minimize and maximize buttons on header bars now
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> improvement ;-)
<larsu> everything still crashes for me. I'll investigate further once the i-messages stuff is done
<seb128> larsu, i-m, what process needs to be restarted?
<larsu> seb128: just i-m
<seb128> larsu, ok, no segfault anymore
<larsu> yay
<Laney> waah
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are things?
<Laney> alarm failed to sound!
<larsu> Laney: 'good morning' would have worked as well
<larsu> why do you have an alarm? Didn't we tell you how this job works? ;)
<Laney> by maintaining a SUPER STRICT ROUTINE
<seb128> ja
<seb128> Laney, what do you use for your alarm?
<seb128> (don't tell utouch :p)
<Laney> nah, a squeezebox
<Laney> it's been a bit shoddy lately
<larsu> Laney: what are you, German?
<larsu> Laney: in any case: good morning :)
<larsu> hope you had a pleasent sleep-in
<larsu> *pleasant
 * seb128 adds lines to the pad
<seb128> sorry larsu
<didrocks> where is the pad url!
<didrocks> quick Laney, bring it back :)
<larsu> keep it from didrocks!
 * didrocks creates a spreadsheet then
<larsu> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> didrocks: http://pad.ubuntu.com/gtk-update-v
 * larsu is allergic to spreadsheets
<didrocks> oh, but you do really have a pad, it wasn't a joke! :)
<larsu> ya, too many things to track in launchpad (it's only in the ppa for now, too)
<seb128> didrocks, easier than tracking it by irc pings
<seb128> we could use a blueprint, but a bit formal
<didrocks> the pad is not scrummy enough! :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> larsu, did you notice the indicator-sound icons being bigger?
<didrocks> (just as a note: I like the pad as well)
<willcooke> did someone say spreadsheet?
<Laney> I was just passing issues on via irc :p
<didrocks> quick quick, find something to please the manager
<seb128> shrug, didrocks, see what you did!
<didrocks> slides!
<didrocks> meeting
<didrocks> hangouts
<seb128> :-)
 * willcooke goes back to his slides
<larsu> seb128: nope
<didrocks> seb128: with that, we are back to safety ^ :)
<seb128> didrocks, well done :-)
<didrocks> \o/
<seb128> larsu, the indicator-datetime one is obvious
<seb128> need to restart u-p-s after installing gtk though
<larsu> haha i have it in datetime
<larsu> not in sound, though
<seb128> larsu, I've it with totem in sound
<seb128> not with rb
<larsu> I don't have it with totem either
<larsu> weird
<larsu> ah, now I do (it's only a bit bigger though)
 * larsu restarted u-p-s _and_ i-s
<seb128> yeah, only a bit
<larsu> datetime is awesome though
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> Laney, not sure if you have details, I know that's a topic that we discussed a bit before, but if you details can you comment on bug #1389336
<ubot5> bug 1389336 in webkitgtk (Ubuntu) "Use geoclue-2.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389336
<Laney> You said the issue
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geoclue-2.0/+bug/1388294/comments/4
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1388294 in geoclue-2.0 (Ubuntu) "[MIR] geoclue-2.0" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<seb128> Laney, right, I was pointing it in case I was saying something inaccurate
<seb128> thanks for checking
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> I suppose we could think about taking this work on
<seb128> I guess we could, not sure what would be the right way to approach the issue though
<Laney> that would be step 1
<Laney> From the sounds of it it might be in-tree
<seb128> well, that comment suggest we could change our server maybe
<seb128> or patch the code
<Laney> I think there are other clients of the server so you'd want to keep both protocols working
<Laney> but yeah, would need poking
<seb128> hum, dsl is down (doing IRC through my phone, but I've a limited data plan so I might just drop offline)
 * pitti tosses seb128 an interweb cable
<seb128> pitti, danke
<pitti> "Jordi, boost the pittinet signal strength to extend to Netherlands! Divert power from the coffee machine!"
 * pitti hugs seb128
<seb128> shrug, we can't have internet and coffee at the same time?
<seb128> we are screwed :p
 * seb128 hugs pitti back
<pitti> seb128: that's what Picard and LaForge always did, no? divert power from live support to the warp drive or shields
<pitti> (as if that would make any measurable difference :) )
<pitti> and if the coffee machine doesn't count as "life support" for hackers, then what does
<mhall119> didrocks: hey, so the Android thing I'm working on needed the NDK, would be nice if udtc could install that for me too
<mhall119> and do whatever it needs to do so that android studio and/or eclipse know about it
<willcooke> didrocks, fyi from mhall119 ^^^^
<mdeslaur> md_test: test test
<mhall119> willcooke: well I did tag him in it, I assume he'll get an annoying popup or ping or something :)
<willcooke> oh - you did, sorry
<didrocks> mhall119: the NDK shouldn't be needed with the default options, was it?
<mhall119> didrocks: I'm trying to compile a project that uses it
<didrocks> mhall119: yeah, so you need to install it
<mhall119> studio complained that it didn't have it
<didrocks> we can't install all services
<didrocks> or the default install would be ~10G
<didrocks> because NDK is one thing, but there are support library, google services, google play services
<mhall119> right, but being able to `udtc android ndk` would have been much nicer than going to developer.android.com, downloading their .bin, chmod-ing it and executing it
<didrocks> mhall119: ah, you mean for something not available in their sdk-manager?
<mhall119> the others I can install via the SDK Manager right?
<didrocks> yeah, that's doable, mind filing a bug?
<didrocks> yep :)
<mhall119> sure, what's the LP project name?
<didrocks> mhall119: it's on github: https://github.com/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/issues
<mhall119> oh, right
<didrocks> mhall119: what kind of project are you on to have to download the NDK? This is really for a nice-thing :)
<didrocks> niche*
<mhall119> https://github.com/didrocks/ubuntu-developer-tools-center/issues/47
<mhall119> didrocks: it's for a game engine, AndEngine
<didrocks> interesting, so yeah, you need it to access the gl stack :)
<mhall119> yeah
<dgadomski> bregma: hi, is this somehow possible to turn off the "untrusted application launcher" check in unity on precise? For every shortcut I create by dragging from dash to the desktop I end up with a untrusted launcher and I need to modify the perms in /usr/share/applications/*.desktop (which I would like to avoid)
<bregma> dgadomski, in 12.04?  I don't think so
<dgadomski> bregma: I was afraid of that, thank you
 * willcooke -> EOD
<Laney> bye!
<seb128> back
<RAOF> desrt: Or maybe in here, because #-mir is being a bit busy :)
<desrt> hm?
<RAOF> desrt: Do you mean âwhat is the definitive list of available cursor namesâ?
<desrt> i already answered my own question by reading the source :)
<RAOF> Hah.
<desrt> which is that it is open-ended
<desrt> if i give you a cursor name that you don't recognise then you'll attempt to open the x11 cursor with this name out of the cursor theme
<desrt> which is more or less what i want :)
<desrt> there is only one annoying thing: if the name of the icon in the cursor theme is the same as a name that mir uses for its purposes then i'll get the mir icon instead
<RAOF> Yeah. We'll give you something more flexible later.
<desrt> i'm sure there are some conflicts there.  i'm not sure if they matter.
<attente_> robert_ancell: how are you testing things such as the test program from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1388875 under unity 8?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1388875 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Vivid) "GTK+ applications unable to be clicked on in Unity 8" [High,Fix committed]
<robert_ancell> sudo cp to /usr/bin and make a file in /usr/share/applications/foo.desktop with X-Ubuntu-Touch=true
<robert_ancell> Then launch from Unity 8
<robert_ancell> For the environment variables I made /usr/bin/mir-test a shell script that called /usr/bin/mir-test.real
<robert_ancell> Then the logs are in ~/.cache/upstart/application-legacy-mir-test-*.log
<robert_ancell> i.e. stdout/err
<attente_> robert_ancell: ah, ok, thanks!
<robert_ancell> For faster testing though I run sudo mir_demo_server_shell from a VT. Set the ownership of /var/run/user/*/mir_socket to all writable and launch the apps with DISPLAY=
<robert_ancell> I don't know if there's a way to launch things directly into Unity 8 (I suspect the security stuff disallows it)
<robert_ancell> attente_, how goes the GTK3 port?
<attente_> robert_ancell: not much progress, added some basic cursor support, but xchat-gnome doesn't even launch under unity 8
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-07
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> happy friday
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks ;-)
 * didrocks reboots under systemd
<didrocks> hum, Alt + a is broken in gnome-terminal again :/
<didrocks> mnemonics are still disabled though
<Laney> yo yo
<Laney> happy friday
<didrocks> hey Laney!
 * didrocks looks at Laney to now fix mnemonics :)
<Laney> ...
<didrocks> or rather mnemonics disablement
<Laney> hello to you too
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> more seriously, weechat is really unusable with this bug :/
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday
<Laney> well I'm sorry but the shortcuts work for me
<Laney> so I'll need some help debugging
<didrocks> Laney: the issue is that they work, there is an issue to disable mnemonics
<seb128> xchat-gnome ftw!
<didrocks> and so then, they are given to the terminal app
<didrocks> seb128: I can run my weechat on the unity8 desktop session at least! :)
<didrocks> Laney: edit -> preferences -> enable mnemonics (uncheck)
<Laney> alt-a isn't even a mnemonic
<Laney> I have it enabled and can switch to that window
<didrocks> you global menu doesn't catch it?
<Laney> no
<didrocks> I can't Alt + a anymore thoughor Alt + 1, 2, 3â¦ to switch windows
<didrocks> I guess the Alt + 1, 2, 3 is better of this new tab behavior
<didrocks> because*
<didrocks> (even with one tab)
<didrocks> alt + a, I don't knowâ¦
<didrocks> Laney: maybe weechat changed its behavior, can you ping here?
<Laney> you want me to highlight you?
<didrocks> just writing something, so it seems this works
<didrocks> I was able to switch where there was some activity with alt + a
<didrocks> but weechat definition of activity changed
<didrocks> (like join/quit isn't considered as an activity anymore it seems)
<didrocks> so alt + a is still working
<Laney> why can't you just switch whenever you want
<Laney> did you upgrade weechat at the same time?
<didrocks> yeah, it's been upgraded at the same time here
<didrocks> so they just changed their behavior on alt + a, but it's working then
<didrocks> Laney: to switch whenever I want, it's alt + 1, 2, 3â¦
<Laney> ah, alt-a is something about jumping with activity
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> quite handy
<Laney> I have enough windows that it's alt-1-9q-mQ-Z ...
<didrocks> Laney: but alt 1â¦9 doesn't work anymore for you, right?
<Laney> you have to clear them, that's my mail
<didrocks> I stopped at the troll!
 * didrocks reads
<seb128> hum
<seb128> unity is replacing the firefox icon with a "?" in my launcher since today
<seb128> wth?
<Laney> I saw that yesterday
<Laney> but it's right now?
<didrocks> Laney: I can live again! thanks a lot man :)
<seb128> Laney, "right now"?
<Laney> like I started this morning and it has an icon again
<seb128> oh, you mean it's working now for you?
<seb128> does it still work if you run and close firefox?
<seb128> I logged out and in and the icon was correct
<Laney> oh yeah
<seb128> but it got replaced with a "?" again now
<Laney> second launch
<Laney> also I didn't get my tabs back ...
<seb128> chrisccoulson!!!
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<Laney> first launch was the close/restore tabs thing, then after I quit and reopened
<seb128> weird, firefox didn't change recently
<Laney> no icon and no tabs
<Laney> GTK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<chrisccoulson> desktop bug
<chrisccoulson> :P
<willcooke> popey <--> didrocks
<seb128> Laney, could be, but firefox is still gtk2...
<willcooke> scheduling ^
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you? ;-)
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> popey <--> popey
<didrocks> zomg infinite loop! :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. and you?
<Laney> I would believe if bamf used it for icon stuff somehow though
<willcooke> popey != popey
<popey> yo
<seb128> Laney, that makes sense
<didrocks> !== (he's a web guy ;))
<ubot5> didrocks: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<seb128> Laney, neither unity, bamf nor firefox changed
 * seb128 adds to the pad
<didrocks> popey: hey, you are scheduling my udtc session?
<willcooke> morning seb128, Laney, chrisccoulson, didrocks, popey
<Laney> seb128: check bamf actually does use it though
<Laney> hi willcooke
<chrisccoulson> hi willcooke
<popey> didrocks: just just asking when you want it
<Laney> yeah bamfdaemon links against gtk23
<Laney> 3
<seb128> Laney, $ ldd /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/bamf/bamfdaemon | grep gtk
<seb128> 	libgtk-3.so.0 => /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libgtk-3.so.0 (0xb6e2d000)
<didrocks> popey: I have a community guy coming to the session, he can either on wednesday or thursday, but only at 5PM UTC
<popey> 5pm is lunch
<popey> "lunch"
<popey> http://drool.popey.com/
<didrocks> ok, then 6 (I'll just finish up a little bit earlier with him)
<popey> ok
<didrocks> hehe :)
<popey> done
<didrocks> popey: thanks! I'll email him! (did you set it to wednesday or thursday?)
<Laney> you have lunch at 5pm?
<popey> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/2014-11-12/display?edit
<didrocks> Laney: that's what summit.ubuntu.com tells you, that's what you will do then! :)
<popey> it's always lunchtime somewhere
<Laney> UOS lunch
<Laney> hahaha
<popey> didrocks: that okay?
<didrocks> popey: perfect! do you who should I ask for the platform track?
<didrocks> I have the bluez session there
<popey> didrocks: i cant see how to figure that data out. dpm may know.
<didrocks> dpm? ^
<didrocks> popey: thanks for scheduling :)
<popey> np
<didrocks> Laney: how would you handle a state that is computed in a preinst (and then we remove that info from the system), to get it back in the postinst?
<didrocks> like, I'm grepping a conffiles in preinst
<didrocks> sedding it to remove that whole deprecated info
<didrocks> and want that info in the postinst (as I install an init script in the new package version) to perform an operation
 * didrocks will go the manual way probably
<Laney> didrocks: which information?
<didrocks> Laney: basically, disabling some init scripts
<didrocks> Laney: we have a package which only have systemd and upstart script
<didrocks> no init
<didrocks> consequence, we have some bugs in the debian systemd tools
<didrocks> where it will restart the daemon after upgrade, even if disabled
<didrocks> from discussion with the debian guys, we should ship an init script
<Laney> I guess save the information you need into some file in the preinst
<didrocks> but then, I need to disable as well the init script
<greyback> Hey folks, some advice please. Starting my machine this morning, it remains stuck at the Plymouth screen. Usual log files not giving me anything relevant. And tips/advice or ideas?
<didrocks> Laney: that's what I was doing, like in /tmp/
<didrocks> Laney: but then, a lovely lintian warning:
<Laney> I'd probably put it alongside the file you're editing
<Laney> because you know this is mounted etc
<didrocks> oh, neat idea!
<didrocks> definitively doing that :)
<didrocks> thanks Laney!
<Laney> there could be some cool way I don't know about though ;-)
<didrocks> doesn't seem from my googling
<didrocks> and yeah, disabling the init file that you are just installing <-> chicken and egg pb :)
<seb128> greyback, can you ctrl-alt-f1 to a command line?
<seb128> what did you install/change? is that vivid?
<Laney> larsu: hey, could you eyeball a couple of gnome-disk-utility changes for me please?
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8865126/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/8865127/
<Laney> are we doing 'is Unity' or 'is not GNOME'?
<Laney> and should I try to forward it? :)
<seb128> the second one for sure
<Laney> yes
<greyback> seb128: no. Is utopic. I hadn't been fiddling at anything dodgy anyway. This is just a week old install.
<seb128> weird :/
<larsu> Laney: ya, let's max-width-chars ALL THE THINGS
<Laney> that one is obvious
<greyback> seb128: yeah, I'm kinda stumped
<seb128> greyback, sudo status lightdm?
<larsu> Laney: the other one seems to have an unclosed <object> tag
<Laney> line 79?
<greyback> seb128: how do I run that, if I can't switch to a virtual console
<seb128> greyback, oh, ctrl-alt-f1 doesn't work?
<larsu> Laney: or is this me reading the diff wrong?!
<Laney> I didn't reindent it because diff noise
<larsu> ah
<seb128> greyback, shrug, you might want to ask on #ubuntu-devel, that seems early boot more than desktop
<larsu> then it might be ok
<Laney> xmllint believes me anyway
<larsu> Laney: we do !GNOME
<greyback> seb128: oh, I just thought of something stupid I didn't do - I switched to VT1, but didn't hit enter to actually see the console. D'oh
<larsu> Laney: the commit message says that it adds the title bar on !Unity, but really you're adding the header bar on !Unity
<Laney> it should say title bar on Unity, but that's changing anyway
<Laney> I'll just say "Use a title bar on non-GNOME environments, keeping the header bar as a toolbar" or something
<larsu> right
<larsu> want me to properly test it as well?
<Laney> nah it's ok
<Laney> the only slightly weird thing is that it uses a subtitle but I'm not sure it's worth changing
<Laney> might as well forward and see what they say
<larsu> we might want to do "<main> - <subtitle>"
<Laney> maybe
<greyback> seb128: figured out main issue, had typo in /etc/fstab, mountall was waiting for the device to appear, blocking everything else
<seb128> greyback, nice that you figured it out, did you edit that file yourself or...?
<greyback> seb128: yep
<greyback> user error
<seb128> k
<seb128> still annoying that the system doesn't cope better with those
<greyback> seb128: true, I found bug 1096307 on the roughly same issue
<ubot5> bug 1096307 in plymouth (Ubuntu) " Boot process hang because 'mountall' fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096307
<Laney> oh hello yak, you're looking a bit unkempt
 * ogra_ hands Laney the bag with curlers
 * Laney pictures a different and more fun kind of yak curling
<ogra_> ha
<maddawgEOL> bleh i always have a nervous breakdown when i go to sign in to my bank account online
 * willcooke -> EOW
 * willcooke -> Zzzz
<Laney> me too
<Laney> happy weekend all!
 * Laney notes didrocks silently left
<seb128> Laney, have a good w.e!
<xnox> Laney: mini-debconf cambridge?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-08
<ricotz> Laney, hi :), what is the reason for still keeping this patch https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vte2.91/0.38.1-1ubuntu1 , wouldn't it better to drop it and adapt the users to it while transitioning to the new library
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-11-09
<Noskcaj> Can we RM gnome-media? It is unsupported upstream, and it's main binary is now a separate package. Is the one remaining binary still worth it? See bug 1159744
<ubot5`> bug 1159744 in gnome-media (Ubuntu) "replacment for gnome-media" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159744
<mdeslaur> 035905
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-02
<hikiko> hello
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<larsu> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts? had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey larsu! Back from Italy?
<Trevinho> morning
<larsu> seb128: yes! Warm and sunny Milan was nice :)
<larsu> didrocks: indeed. Came back late last night
<larsu> hi Trevinho
<larsu> how are all of you? Enjoyed the weekend?
<Trevinho> hikiko__: lars
<larsu> didrocks: feling better finally?
<Trevinho> hi larsu *
<larsu> Trevinho: wow, tab complete on the wrong word? :P
<Trevinho> :D
 * Trevinho has not the head connected yet
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> hi seb128, well still in the limbo... Trying to fight against myself :P
<Trevinho> seb128: you?
<seb128> larsu, w.e was nice, good party on saturday, easy day yesterday and enjoyed the nicer weather
<seb128> Trevinho, I'm good thanks!
<seb128> Trevinho, are you still with andyrock?
<Trevinho> seb128: nope, I come back on sat
<seb128> did you guys have fun for halloween
<seb128> oh, ok
<Trevinho> I should have stayed till tue, but I got some things to do
<seb128> k
<Trevinho> Well, yes.... But Stockholm, really? That city doesn't want to get fun
<Trevinho> Not sure it deserves cool people like us :P
<seb128> lol
<seb128> probably not ;-)
<seb128> go to Berlin next time!
<Trevinho> Yeah, I want to go there... I've been there some years ago but I indeed need to stay there a little more
 * Trevinho needs more friends (for travelling with) who can work remotely :P
<hikiko> hi all again :)
<hikiko> Trevinho, did you ping me?
<Trevinho> hikiko: no, sorry... It was a mistake
<hikiko> or that was a hi+tab? lol
<Trevinho> I wanted to auto-complete Hi :P
<larsu> morning hikiko
<didrocks> larsu: was sick during the entire week-end, so didn't really enjoy it
<hikiko> morning larsu Trevinho didrocks and all
<didrocks> larsu: finally better today
<didrocks> hey hikiko, Trevinho
<larsu> didrocks: :(
<larsu> didrocks: at least it is getting beter
<larsu> *better
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, still sneezing a little bit, but nothing compared to last days
<didrocks> EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. -> let's ship it! :)
<Trevinho> hi didrocks
<Laney> comrades!
<Laney> buddies!
<Laney> friends!
<Laney> pals!
<larsu> morning Laney!
<larsu> how was the rest of your vacation?
<hikiko> hi Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, welcome back! had good holidays?
<didrocks> hey Laney, Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
<Laney> NEIN
<Laney> hi larsu hikiko seb128 didrocks
<Laney> did everything break?
<Laney> larsu: good, nice altstadt there and lots of posh/green houses
<Laney> http://www.rolfdisch.de/index.php?p=home&pid=78&L=1#a566 this rotating solar house was round the corner from us
<Laney> seb128: very nice thanks!
<Laney> fun to go around by train
<Laney> and we had a cool host in berlin ;-)
<Laney> super misty today
<larsu> Laney: glad you liked it :)
<Laney> larsu: did you get some tourism done?
<Laney> or cafÃ©ism
<Laney> or somethingism
<darkxst> hey seb128 Laney didrocks larsu
<didrocks> good evening darkxst
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> bah
<seb128> looks like somebody let the gnome-desktop binaries out of the new queue
<seb128> we have cheese gnome-desktop poppler e-d-s libgtop transitions stacked in xenial now :-/
<seb128> didrocks, Laney (others with upload rights) any chance you would help with those this week?
<darkxst> seb128, I will do what i can to help, but not tonight, broken from 3 days of climbing
<seb128> darkxst, ok, thanks
<Laney> yep
<Laney> I am just making a tracker for eds actually
 * Laney did a look at what is broken
<Laney> seems people were keen on starting the transitions
<Laney> instead of serialising them
<didrocks> seb128: can do, finishing up some medium tests work first, because umake is still my priority, but then, should be good (this afternoon, I guess)
<Laney> don't bother, I will do a wave first
<Laney> otherwise we might clash
<didrocks> Laney: I'll poke here once I can focus on this anyway, and you will tell me if you need any hand :)
<larsu> hi darkxst
<Laney> hey darkxst
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<Laney> 3 days, impressive
<larsu> Laney: we did walk around the city quite a lot and went shopping (it is Milan after all) and looking at old buildings and walking along canals
<larsu> Laney: and drank a lot of espresso. Tasty
<Laney> nice
<Laney> did you speak any italian?
<larsu> I moved mu hands some
<seb128> Laney, do you start your wave now or do you still do catchup first? (just to not conflict, going to do some rebuilds now)
<Laney> prego!
<seb128> k :-)
 * Laney is doing some
<larsu> ;)
<Laney> well, making trackers first
<Laney> easy thing to get started back on
<seb128> we have one for poppler
<seb128> cheese is done so no need for it
<seb128> it just got tangled with e-d-s through gnome-contacts
<seb128> libgtop and e-d-s we could use trackers for
<seb128> gnome-desktop as well I guess
<Laney> I'm on it, no worries
<seb128> do we have documentation on how to set up a transition tracker?
<seb128> for next time
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> lp:~ubuntu-transition-trackers/ubuntu-transition-tracker/configs
<Laney> & http://ben.debian.net/
<darkxst> Laney, http://imgur.com/eUVb7F6 ;)
<seb128> Laney, danke
<darkxst> seb128, did valac get MIR'ed?
<Laney> no need for that
<seb128> darkxst, I promoted it, no need of MIR it's basically a new version of a package that was already in main
<darkxst> Laney, g-c-c won't build without it
<seb128> I retried g-c-c
<seb128> which built fine
<darkxst> ok cool
<seb128> did that for some others as well like shotwell
<seb128> but the cheese transition didn't get it because gnome-contacts picked up e-d-s
<seb128> we could probably build gnome-contacts without cheese to let the other ones migrate
<seb128> then enable the option back
<Laney> vala source is in universe though
<Laney> the horror
<seb128> but that set is small enough that it's probably not useful
<seb128> Laney, I guess I can fix that ;-)
<darkxst> g-c-c can drop to universe, if u-c-c takes the shared-data package?
<seb128> darkxst, I guess it can, I'm going to have a look now to that shared-data thing
<darkxst> seb128, pretty sure I cleaned up everything else last cycle, that was keeping it in main
<seb128> Trevinho, you have a bamf landing coming?
<seb128> darkxst, great, thanks
<seb128> Trevinho, we need a rebuild with the new libgtop soname
<didrocks> Ran 56 tests in 931.705s
<didrocks> phew, system medium tests -> OK \O/
<didrocks> (well, need to commit this in logical order now)
<didrocks> and next release as it's a system package test
 * didrocks tries the same in jenkins with the patched system package to reconfirm
<Laney> upgrade FAIL in python-pexpect from some PPA
<Laney> wait
<Laney>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop/ppa/ubuntu/ wily/main amd64 Packages
 * Laney stares
<Laney> but there is no pexpect package there
<seb128> Laney, there was one from didrocks I think but he deleted it
<Laney> right
<seb128> or maybe it was in the umake ppa, or I'm confusing things
<Laney> dunno why I got it then
<Laney> unless it was super recent
<seb128> I don't think it was
<Laney> Deleted on 2015-10-19
<didrocks> yeah
 * Laney asked #lp
<didrocks> wrong dput :p
<didrocks> but it's old, indeed
<desrt> good morning eÅ­roanoj
<Laney> greetings desrt
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> morning desrt
 * Laney xenialifies
<desrt> hi larsu, didrocks, Laney
<desrt> it's going well
<desrt> except that my biological clock seems to be floating somewhere in the middle of the atlantic right now
<didrocks> desrt: you were flying too fast and didn't let it catch you ;)
<didrocks> it will eventually catch up :p
<seb128> hey desrt
<desrt> morning seb
<Laney> are you on the left side now?
<larsu> morning desrt - how's home?
<seb128> Laney, darkxst, I'm pondering deleting the new gnome-desktop from xenial-proposed to make other transitions easier to go through, then we could reupload ... wdyt?
<Laney> gimme a bit to get a handle on it
<desrt> larsu: just feeling the (not totally bad) effects of jetlag
<desrt> i blame the additional timechange :)
<seb128> Laney, ok, issue is that if we start rebuilds for e-d-s/libgtop we might pick more things and gnome-desktop gets harder to delete then
<larsu> desrt: hehe, was wondering why you're already awake
<Laney> seb128: do you know of any failures?
<darkxst> Laney, for gnome-desktop? only unity was failing for unrelated things
<Laney> any of them really
<seb128> Laney, no, I'm just concerned that we try to batch too much and realize it's getting complicated
<darkxst> I think that was fixed though?
<darkxst> Trevinho, maybe?
<Laney> there seems to be https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-011
<seb128> that built before gnome-desktop was NEWed though
<seb128> so if we keep gnome-desktop we need to rebuild that silo
<Laney> no change rebuilding is trivial
<Laney> fixing the real failure presumably less so, so good it is done :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> well that was not my point
<seb128> my point is that we might hit 3 hard ones to fix in the rdepends list
<seb128> and then we might regreat to not have decoupled the transitions
<seb128> but it might also be fine
<seb128> I just prefer to play safe
<Laney> right, I know about transitions :P
 * Laney is trying rebuilds
 * Laney loves parallel.moreutils
<Laney> larsu: should I check out that nautilus branch now?
<larsu> Laney: seb128 found another bug on Friday that I'm looking into right now (folders are the wrong size after changing scale factor)
<Laney> okay, lemme know when
<larsu> should be a one liner, but it's hard to find where to put  the one line :/
<Laney> noticed notify-osd gets messed up too after fiddling with the factor ;-)
<larsu> still? I thought we fixed that last cycle?
<seb128> that's there for ever
<Laney> it gets the initial one
<Laney> but now after changing it a few times I have big notifications
<larsu> bug #?
<seb128> bug #1020510
<ubot5> bug 1020510 in unity (Ubuntu) "Change of text size in System Settings>Universal Access is not reflected instantly in the bubbles" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020510
<seb128> is the same I guess
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-osd/+bug/1303796
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1303796 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Display scaling is not applied runtime" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> probably
<larsu> Laney: unity figures you can't see right (since you're playing with dpi all the time) and just leaves it big. It's a feature
<seb128> bug #1303796
<Laney> too slow old man!
<seb128> lol
<darkxst> fwiw there is a crasher in nautilus 3.18.1, been getting lots of reports of, but no proper trace yet
<seb128> darkxst, k, is that upstream? or from the gnome3 ppa? where do you get the reports?
<darkxst> seb128, from gnome3-ppa (but we have most ubuntu patches dropped there), https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1512163
<ubot5> Error: launchpad bug 1512163 not found
<larsu> ubot5: because it's private!
<ubot5> larsu: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<larsu> ubot5: clearly...
<seb128> k
<darkxst> seb128, I have a retracer running, but it was down over the weekend
<larsu> haha now ubot5 queried me :)
<seb128> lol
 * Laney books a chimney sweep
 * Laney is victorian
<larsu> you have a chimney?
<Laney> haha, he's got his kid to do the answerphone message
<Laney> cute
<Laney> yeah ... 3 I think
<Laney> we have like 5 fireplaces
<Laney> this is an old house
<Laney> (only use one of them though)
<larsu> wow
<seb128> Laney lives in a castle!
<Laney> just an ancient house
<larsu> aka a castle
<Laney> it looks victorian outside too, can't see over the road
<larsu> pics!
<Laney> at least this is fog and not smog...
<Laney> ...hopefully...
<seb128> going for lunch, bbl
<desrt> enjoy, seb!
<seb128> thanks
<larsu> enjoy!
 * desrt notes that she can't seem to do anything to glib anymore without breaking something
<desrt> too many compilers and pseduo-compilers
<larsu> pseudo compilers?
<desrt> things like gtk-doc and introspection scanners
<larsu> ah :(
<larsu> and msvc :P
<desrt> that routinely get thrown for a loop by fancy new stuff we do in headers
<larsu> the amount of effort we put into supporting that shitty compiler is ridiculous
<desrt> ya.......
 * desrt imagines glib as a gcc-only project
<larsu> ya
<larsu> would be nice
<larsu> throw out a*a lot* of ifdefs
<desrt> i sure do hate my ifdefs
<desrt> thing is, now is a bad time to do that
<desrt> since msvc is trying to be a good c compiler again these days
<larsu> is it?
<larsu> does it support any 99 yet?
<desrt> C99 Conformance Visual Studio 2015 fully implements the C99 Standard Library, with the exception of any library features that depend on compiler features not yet supported by the Visual C++ compiler (for example, <tgmath.h> is not implemented).
<desrt> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh409293.aspx
<desrt> but in any case it seems like they realise that 15 years is long enough
<desrt> and are trying to improve
<desrt> they're also improving the usability of the standalone compiler
<desrt> and hilariously, they now support linux targets
<desrt> which is perhaps the least useful thing for them to do in the entire world
<larsu> hehe indeed
<desrt> visual studio itself is also now running on linux, which is slightly more interesting
<larsu> wow seriouslz?
<desrt> for a while now
<desrt> http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/29/microsoft-shocks-the-world-with-visual-studio-code-a-free-code-editor-for-os-x-linux-and-windows/#.49amq8d:6vbG
<larsu> on wine? Or do they have a custom linux backend for their ui stuff?
<desrt> maybe mono?  i have no idea
<desrt> i care approximately 0 about the UI but the possibility of running the toolchain native is pretty nice
<larsu> is visual studio written in .net?
<larsu> indeed
<desrt> anyway... i start to see light at the end of the tunnel with VC
<desrt> for the first time in a long time
<desrt> so it would be a particularly weird time to say that we ditch support now
<didrocks> larsu: man, I made some announcement that even ubuntu make supports VSc on Ubuntu! :)
<didrocks> desrt: larsu: it's a chrome-based project FWIW
<desrt> interesting
<didrocks> so not the real visual studio, but a browser atom-like style
<desrt> ugh.  i'm starting to hate this text/plain empty file bug
<desrt> mostly because nautilus is _not_ doing the right thing in another case either
<desrt> desrt@humber:~$ cp /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3 foo.mp3
<desrt> desrt@humber:~$ gvfs-info foo.mp3
<desrt>   standard::content-type: audio/mpeg
<desrt> what the hell
<larsu> didrocks: woah I must have missed that
 * desrt thinks she heard it from didrocks
<larsu> desrt is solving problems again that don't exist in practice :)
<desrt> i assumed that content type sniffing ... you know, worked
<desrt> we're arguing about what an empty file is or is not based on this assumption
<larsu> it doesn't in the general case...
<didrocks> there is an extra layer fallbacking to extension?
<larsu> not worth it
<desrt> fml
<larsu> and leads to printing doesn't work on Tuesdays
<desrt> i hate tuesday
<larsu> good thing its monday, then
<desrt> so i signed up to the art gallery with a friend
<larsu> Laney: it was a one liner. pushed. please test :)
<desrt> we have a couples membership, in theory, but nobody knows that we don't live together
<desrt> and can split the cost this way
<desrt> her name is cÄtÄlina
<desrt> her card arrived in the mail with chinese on it
<larsu> welcome to the wonderful world of people not knowing what utf8 is
 * desrt needs to figure out that one
 * desrt needs to start by figuring out the codepoint of the character in question
<didrocks> larsu: http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Ubuntu-Make-0.7-released-with-Visual-Studio-Code-support btw, there is a screenshot as well, you can see it's really far from real VS
<larsu> didrocks: ah! I have seen this but thought it was some totally different program for web development which they just branded the same way
<didrocks> well, it's more or less the case
<didrocks> hence it's not Visual Studio
<didrocks> but Visual Studio Code
<larsu> right
<didrocks> :)
<larsu> does that include a c compiler/
<larsu> >
<larsu> ?
<larsu> hitting keys: hard.
<Laney> internets outage
 * Laney demands compensation
<Laney> it was like 8 minutes!!!
<desrt> http://imgur.com/PTgMSsI
<desrt> can anyone help identify this glyph?
<larsu> Laney: what do you pay for your internet? 8 minutes outage at Â£30 a month is worth half a pence
<larsu> Laney: (you got my ping though, right?)
<Laney> Google runs the oxygen supply to my hermetically sealed office
<Laney> 8 minutes is a long time to hold your breath
<Laney> also the door fails closed for security, of course
<desrt> i think your SLA doesn't cover this
<Laney> well I jumped out of the window
<larsu> phwe
<larsu> phew
<Laney> so now I only have two broken legs and not a death certificate
<Laney> and a broken window
<Laney> and a dead pet unicorn because that was the only thing available to smash the glass with
<Laney> it was the last one on earth
<Laney> ...
<Laney> yes I got the ping
<larsu> seb128: how do you reproduce bug #1303796? Works fine for me even after changing the scale factor lots of times
<ubot5> bug 1303796 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Display scaling is not applied runtime" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303796
 * Laney can't make it happen right now either
<Laney> bah, gnome-desktop3 3.12 has breaks on the old one
 * Laney can't install this nautilus
 * Laney rebuilds
<andyrock> morning
<didrocks> and medium tests fully pass, yeah \o/
<didrocks> Laney: available to give a hand if needed now
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<Laney> didrocks: still rebuilding here, probably going to be ok though
<Laney> I can do a for pkg in *; rebuild $pkg; done easy enough :-)
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> well, seems seb told that helps was needed
<didrocks> hence my proposal
<Laney> would be if there were failures
<Laney> but I didn't see any yet
<Laney> larsu: this is looking good!
 * Laney is irritated that a new "Empty file" has gone under the panel
<Laney> not that this is new behaviour
<didrocks> oh, how come? Unity is support to declare the right xprop for the space where we set icons in nautilus
<didrocks> and it changes that size dynamically on launcher hide or always be present
<Laney> bug :)
<Laney> when I go down to Ã1 it's not underneath it
<didrocks> ahah, hidpi related, once more :p
<Laney> pixels are hard
<Laney> also doing 8 rebuilds in parallel with -j2 on each one has nailed my other machine
 * Laney can't ssh in even
<Laney> but I did them in ram of course, so don't really want to restart
<didrocks> haha :)
 * Laney types "uptime" and leaves to refill the tea
<Laney> 38.11
<Laney> [1888722.368391] Out of memory: Kill process 1714 (Xorg) score 2 or sacrifice child
<ogra_> no child at hand ?
<Laney> in the oven for lunch already
<ogra_> ah, damned
<didrocks> ;)
<qengho> good morning
<didrocks> hey qengho
<larsu> morning qengho
<seb128> larsu, I don't reproduce the hi scaling one, but the toggle a11y big text on/off still does it here
<seb128> I assumed they were the same issue, but maybe they are not
<larsu> seb128: ah thanks - I'll update the bug
<Laney> right!
<Laney> all things build, unless I missed summat
<seb128> Laney, all being libgtop + e-d-s + gnome-desktop rdepends?
<larsu> desrt: are you ok with the general concept of my patch to gnome bug #755421? (not sending replies if no_reply_expected is set)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 755421 in gdbus "GDBus ignores NO_REPLY_EXPECTED flag in messages, leading to warnings on system bus" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=755421
<larsu> desrt: I'm about to write a test for this, but don't want to waste time if this is not something we want
<desrt> i think there is another bug about this
<desrt> let me find it
<larsu> couldn't find one
<Laney> seb128: ya
<desrt> i had some ideas about this at one point, at least
<desrt> and i thought they made it into a bug
<larsu> what were they?
<larsu> can't think of many alternatives to my approach (other than to let applications do the check)
<desrt> found it
<desrt> and indeed, i want apps to be able to do the check
<desrt> see comment 2 on bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741397
<ubot5> Gnome bug 741397 in gdbus "g_dbus_method_invocation_return_value() twice for the same GDBusMethodInvocation explodes randomly" [Normal,New]
<desrt> i want to fix this all at once
<larsu> desrt: this is a different issue...
<seb128> Laney, upload away! ;-)
<Laney> seb128: doing, need to do evo first because stuff depends on that
<Laney> also, what's up with obexd?
<desrt> larsu: it intersects quite a lot
<Laney> that is part of bluez now no?
<seb128> Laney, evo I did on friday, what is still needed?
<seb128> Laney, yeah, you can delete obexd
<Laney> seb128: rebuild against gnome-desktop
<desrt> because we can't clean up the refcounting mess on method invocations unless we know how optional replies are handled
<seb128> oh, right
<Laney> can *you* delete obexd?
<Laney> :)
<seb128> sure
<Laney> nice
<seb128> do you want me to do evo?
<desrt> ie: right now, _return_value() can *never* be a no-op
<Laney> no
<Laney> just delete obexd if I don't need to rebuild it
<Laney> then won't block stuff
<seb128> k, I hope I did evo alright on friday
<Laney> check for rdeps though, I didn't do that
<seb128> I had to go and wanted to upload before the w.e to unblock things
<Laney> it builds
<Laney> I didn't run it
<seb128> yeah, I just rush merged it
<Laney> but I assume it is fine, you did it after all
<Laney> :P
<desrt> also: if we add this new is_reply_required() then we force the user into the new behaviour
<seb128> lol
<Laney> and you remembered to bzr push
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> desrt: tranfer full is pretty clear on how this should be handled. I agree that this is stupid, but please don't make me rework this whole thing for what is a simple issue right now
<larsu> desrt: and it actually is an issue. Tons of log spam
<Laney> 'k, evo is uploaded, /me preps the rest
<larsu> just ask seb128 :D
<Laney> + rebuilds unity/bamf
<seb128> Laney, you're the man!
<Laney> easy first day back task
<Trevinho> Laney: about that... can you publish my silo (11)?
<seb128> desrt, larsu is right, logs are spammed!
<Laney> and I love transitions
<seb128> Laney, :-)
<Laney> â¥
<Laney> Trevinho: ya, after this next rebuild
<Laney> new gnome-desktop3 / libgtop soname in xenial
<Trevinho> Laney: thanks
<Laney> Trevinho: also, hey ;-)
<Trevinho> Laney: so... should I trigger a reboot?
<Laney> already doing
<Trevinho> Laney: yes... Hey! :) /me feels not polite :P
<seb128> Laney, want to look at passepartout, it fails to build with new gnomemm libs but the errors are too much c++ magic to me :p
<desrt> larsu: what's the deal with the log-spam issue anyway?
<seb128> I'm pondering just removing it from the release pocket, that's an year old deprecated project
<desrt> because no-reply-expected is strictly advisory
<seb128> no upstream anymore, the vcs/bugzilla even got removed it seems
<Laney> bust it to proposed
<Laney> what does it block?
<larsu> desrt: glib automatically sets it when no callback is passed (rightly so), but services might reply anyway
<seb128> Laney, gnomecanvasmm and 4-5 not-so-useful universe components
<larsu> desrt: and if they do on the system bus, dbus-1 rejects those replies (and writes a log entry)
<desrt> this "when no callback is specified" behaviour is relatively new, btw
<larsu> desrt: because policy there is "no unsolicited messages", and dbus-1 doesn't track messages if no-reply-expected is given
<desrt> ya.  i get that.
<larsu> so it can't match the reply to a previous method call
<desrt> but our current behaviour is correct and dbus daemon has a bug
<larsu> no
<desrt> yes.  dbus daemon is logging as an error something that is correct behaviour
<Laney> seb128: oh right, it got a gcc5 rebuild
<seb128> Laney, right
<larsu> desrt: gdbus is doing unnecessary stuff, which is what this bug is aobut
<Laney> yeah well, demote stuff to proposed if you want
<larsu> I'm fine with filing a bug against dbus-1 as well
<Laney> gnomecanvas is deprecated anyway
<larsu> but realistically, it won't be fixed
<desrt> i think we file a bug against the spec
<seb128> Laney, right, going to demote passepartout then, thanks
<seb128> and file the bug to debian
<seb128> in case they care enough to fix it
<larsu> desrt: why? make it forbidden to send replies that are not expected?
<Laney> seb128: there's a demote-to-proposed tool in ubuntu-archive-tools in case you don't know
<seb128> Laney, btw I plan to do a u-c-c landing today, that might count as a rebuild if you want to wait on that
<seb128> Laney, I had forgotten, thanks for the reminder
<seb128> Laney, also they are some rebuild-ready-to-land in silo like the addressbook
<seb128> so we probably don't want to conflict with those
<desrt> larsu: just wrote a comment on the bug explaining my position
<desrt> ie: i can take your patch as-is, but only with a spec change accepted
<desrt> otherwise, patch the daemon not to complain about unexpected replies.  they are harmless.
<larsu> thanks
<Laney> seb128: okay but only if there is 0 faff in uploading them, otherwise I will do a no change rebuild and they can force publish
<Laney> don't care about losing changelog of a rebuild
<seb128> right
<seb128> well you might as well do the no change rebuilds
<larsu> desrt: I agree that changing the spec is the better way to go, but then we'd need to change existing implementations as well...
<seb128> no point blocking the transitions
<Laney> indeed
<larsu> desrt: or how is this usually handlked?
<larsu> also, where do we file bugs against the spec? on the dbus product on freedesktop?
<desrt> larsu: well, i get a bug from the guy who maintains a spec saying "your causing problems with your spec-compliant behaviour.  please change it."
<desrt> so like, we're changing the implementations now anyway, by request of the spec author...
<desrt> s/author/maintainer/
<larsu> hm, indeed
<desrt> also s/your/you're/ yick
 * Sweet5hark did read backlog.
 * Sweet5hark wants to do a sprint at count laneys mansion.
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> how a good w.e?
<Sweet5hark> seb128: heya. yeah, was a good weekend (needed one after the sprint and the hackfest over the last two weekends)
<Laney> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-011-1-build/322/console
<Laney> slow source package build?!?!?!
<Laney> hey Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> anyone knowing by chance when popey will be back?
<Laney> seems it took 12 minutes last time
<didrocks> suspicious
<Laney> davmor2: do you have trusty on your xps by any chance?
<Trevinho> andyrock: for your pleasure :P https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/switcher-dynamic-model/+merge/276391
<davmor2> Laney: I do not, I have xenial on it
<Laney> ok
<davmor2> Laney: why?
<Laney> want someone to check a fix
 * Laney tries 4$
<Laney> $4?
<ogra_> is that like 8x 50ct ?
<ogra_> super rap potential ?
<davmor2> Laney: I could have 14.04.3 installed on it for tomorrow as a side by side I guess. But not today I'm going to be up and down to the car for the rest of the day testing bluez extended kernels
<Laney> davmor2: nah I could boot a usb stick if necessary
<davmor2> Laney: that I can do in an hour or so for you
<seb128> Laney, are you testing you xenial?
<Laney> you?
<seb128> well if you are on it I'm happy to delete it from my list
<seb128> I don't have an hidpi screen, I can test by doing hacks with gsettings key
<Laney> oh yes
<seb128> but I'm happy if I don't have to screw my session doing that
<Laney> I am checking this
<Laney> will upload X but want to check the backport works for 3.10 too
<seb128> screwing my session because things get too big and go out of screen and then I need to resize/move things back where they should be
<seb128> yeah, makes sense
<Laney> join the hidpi club with your refresh man
<davmor2> seb128: I'm running xenial on xps13 I will be using it as my daily device fairly soon, just porting over settings and data etc and would still like to make it work with my main monitor
<seb128> davmor2, what's the issue with your monitor?
<davmor2> seb128: not the monitor it is getting the right connector the xps13 uses mini display port and most are setup for lightning/apple products
<davmor2> seb128: or are lightning compatible and those don't seem to be recognised but the xps/ubuntu
 * seb128 shrug at run-autopkgtest
<seb128> "--trigger                       SOURCE/VERSION"
<seb128> is that new? it's not mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure and not very self explanary
<seb128> how is source different from "package"?
<pitti> Bonjour tout le monde !
<seb128> which is the next argument
<seb128> pitti, ^
<seb128> pitti, hey
<didrocks> good morning pitti! Hope you had a nice flight :)
<Laney> you can leave that out no?
<Laney> hey pitti
<seb128> pitti, had a good flight? how is your jetlag
<pitti> seb128: ah, sorry; you now need to specify which package is the reason why you re-run the test, i. e. the excuse in britney
<seb128> Laney, doesn't seem so no
<pitti> seb128: flight was okay, thanks; had a really nice Sunday
<Laney> interesting
<Laney> must be new then
<pitti> (Rick giving a presentation, bbl)
<seb128> pitti, excuse in britney?
<pitti> yeah, it's reasonably new
<seb128> "test fail and seems to be flacky and I want to retry"
<pitti> seb128: e. g. http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#nautilus
<seb128> is my reason
<pitti> seb128: so nautilus/1:3.14.2-0ubuntu13 is the --trigger, and e. g. deja-dup is the test
<Trevinho> larsu: hey, about that border radius stuff, have you got some time to look at it? I've been debugging a little, but not able to figure out how to export that globally. As the unity side is ready since sprint, but we need gtk support.
<pitti> seb128: (will explain later about the reason)
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: you cna see in the ADT_TEST_TRIGGER value in the (failed) test log
<pitti> seb128, Laney: the reason is that britney needs to be able to associate a test result for a particular -proposed package and version, to avoid accidentally attributing an earlier run to a new -proposed package
<pitti> seb128, Laney: and moreover, with bug 1503150 the test will actually behave different depending on the trigger
<ubot5> bug 1503150 in britney "Minimize installed packages from -proposed" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503150
<larsu> Trevinho: oh, I thought you had a branch for that somewhere?
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<Trevinho> larsu: no, I did the unity side, but then on gtk I couldn't find the culprit...
<larsu> Trevinho: ok, I'll have a look tomorrow (got some other stuff on my plate now). Where's your unity branch?
<Laney> pitti: Ah right - I thought you were going to compute the transactions after the update_output stage (but maybe I just made that up in my head)
<seb128> larsu, I backported your gtk fix (with the revert of the unwanted change), should our gnome-screenshot patch be dropped then?
<seb128> or are both right/needed
<Trevinho> larsu: mh, not a branch yet (i've a shelve :P)...
<larsu> seb128: yes please. Thanks!
<Trevinho> larsu: I can push it, I didn't push as I was waiting the final ATOM name, which now I have... So I'll push it shortly
<larsu> Trevinho: ah I guess I was waiting for that ;)
<Laney> seb128: oh you are doing this one too?
<Trevinho> larsu: ok, let me push it
<seb128> Laney, I did gtk, was just wondering about gnome-screenshot
<larsu> thanks
<seb128> I can do
<Laney> ok
<Laney> I just thought that I was handling it
<Laney> but oh well
<seb128> Laney, if you want please do
<seb128> you can test
<seb128> which I can't
<seb128> sorry I didn't know you were on it
<seb128> I did gtk because I was already backporting a segfault fix
<seb128> so I cherrypicked what I saw in the recent commits
<Laney> did anyone work on or test 3.18?
<Laney> by the way
<seb128> I didn't
<seb128> I've been focussing on doing merges and trying to get the current proposed-migrations cleaned
<seb128> I can do that this week though
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> I could as well update once we get a mir backend patch
<Laney> then everyone will test it
<seb128> let me install it and see how it works for me ;-)
<Laney> filechoosers look weird
<Laney> but nothing to block the update that I saw
<seb128> we should probably open bugs with gtk318 tag for things that look weird
<seb128> session restart, brb
 * qengho afk a bit
<seb128> ok, session starts fine ;-)
<seb128> nautilus sidebar looks weird, the left margin is missing
<Laney> yeah same as the chooser
<Trevinho> larsu: live at lp:~3v1n0/unity/gtk-border-radius-support/
<seb128> same than the fs
<Trevinho> larsu: some numbers are still hardcoded, but mostly it's fine
<larsu> cool, thanks
<seb128> Laney, things open with a black color first which looks weird, did you notice that as well?
<Laney> nope
<seb128> I see it opening a fileselector
<seb128> but like if I start something slow like software-center the windows is black while loading
<Laney> I just get the window
<seb128> hum, k
<seb128> I wonder if something is wrong with my laptop
<seb128> let me reboot
<Laney> well I have ss
<Laney> d
<Laney> so things are generally fast
<attente> Laney: hey, sorry, i'm going to refresh the mir backend today
<Laney> hey attente
<Laney> thanks!
<pitti> Laney, seb128: FWIW, just did a mass-retry of all current regressions, I hope that some of the uninstallability fixed it self
<seb128> pitti, oh ok, thanks
<seb128> Laney, k,  works after a reboot, was probably something with intel/x
<seb128> urg, in fact not
<seb128> still does it for file-selector in gedit
<seb128> not when starting s-c now though
<Laney> what did it do before?
<seb128> unsure, I guess the bg was standard grey
<seb128> let me ld_preload old gtk
<seb128> Laney, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtk.ogv
<seb128> that's opening the f-s a bunch of time with gtk 3.18 then 3.16
<Laney> you mean that it flashes black for an instant?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it's visible on the screencast
<seb128> well the bg is black before having the content painted
<Laney> yes was just asking if that's what you were trying to report
<seb128> yes
<seb128> sorry it's not easy to describe
<seb128> hey there?
<lan3y> HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO???????????????????
<seb128> lan3y, hey
<lan3y> got disconnected
<lan3y> can't /nick back to the normal one
<seb128> :-(
<lan3y> 02/11 15:27:33 <Laney> ok I do actually see that really quickly on file selectors
<lan3y> 02/11 15:27:41 <Laney> hard to notice but you can see it if you look
<lan3y> 02/11 15:27:45 <Laney> worth a gtk318 bug
<seb128> I didn't see those messages
<davmor2> lan3y: fail
<seb128> but yeah
<seb128> well it's not there of long but it's visually distracting
<seb128> let me see if anyone reported that upstream maybe
<lan3y> Trevinho: your bamf packaging changes are weird
<lan3y> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-011-2-publish/91/artifact/bamf_packaging_changes.diff
<lan3y> don't know what that install file syntax is?
<seb128> lan3y, just dumping for info, but a bunch of autosynced gstreamer packages are waiting on 1.6.1 base to be merged (no hurry, just mentioning it in case you didn't have in your todo yet and want to add it)
<lan3y> yeah, it's there, thanks!
 * lan3y is about to upload the world
<lan3y> then go for a distressingly late lunch
<seb128> lan3y, enjoy lunch!
<seb128> lan3y, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748498 seems similar to the issue I'm seeing
<ubot5> Gnome bug 748498 in .General "Black background appears briefly before window gets drawn" [Minor,New]
<seb128> well at least the most recent comment
<seb128> which seems different from the original description
<lan3y> nod
<lan3y> worth a look
<pitti> oh, an 13117 lan3y t0d4y !
<lan3y> oops I accidentally uploaded bamf again :P
<seb128> lol
<seb128> those slippery fingers!
<lan3y> good job after my comments
 * lan3y h4x0r5 p1tt1
<didrocks> nice linux version of netbeans contains .exe
<lan3y> 02/11 15:48:06 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- laney has been released.
<Laney> w00t!
<didrocks> and both 32 and 64, in case youneed them ;)
<Laney> ok going to eat some eats
<Laney> back to cry at build failures soon
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<didrocks> enjoy Laney
 * qengho back
<xclaesse> seb128, Hi, is ubuntu 15.10 going to get upcoming glib stable releases, or is the policy to only pick selected patches?
<seb128> xclaesse, we do stable updates
<seb128> but we can also backport a specific patch before the next tarball if there is an important issue
<seb128> sorry I was about to go, need to pick up somebody, back in ~30min
<xclaesse> I just pushed 2 patches upstream in 2.46 (and master), just doc fix for debian packaging, it has been annoying me for years, would be great to get them: ab7b4be and 59bfb6b
<Laney> xclaesse: yeah we'll get them from the stable
<Laney> release
<xclaesse> Laney, ok thanks. I guess it can wait for that then
<Laney> xclaesse: seems to be next week, I guess that's ok?
<xclaesse> sure it can wait, np
<Laney> nice
<seb128> Laney, how much are the buildds hating you? ;-)
<Laney> just got one which I retried and worked
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/~laney/+uploaded-packages
<Laney> sflphone already failed before
<seb128> Laney, your devhelp upload, you forget the -dev depends on libwebkit2gtk-4.0-dev
<seb128> should be moved back to 3.0-dev
<Laney>  devhelp (3.18.1-1ubuntu4) xenial; urgency=medium
<Laney>  .
<Laney>    * Fix the -dev package dependency too.
<seb128> ok, I'm lagging behind compared to you today ;-)
<seb128> why isn't that one on xenial-changes?
<Laney> didn't upload it yet
<Laney> just chillaxing in tab #3 in this terminal
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> that explains :p
<didrocks> and docker image pushed, with that, time to end the day!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys
<Laney> this guy
<Laney> no time to reply to his goodbye
<Laney> scissor sisters time
<sarnold> nine seconds isn't enough? :)
<Sweet5hark> https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.fefe.de%2F%3Fts%3Da8c95274 <- Fefe vs. Linus. flame on!
 * Laney gives moar hamsters to arm64
<Laney> oh well, will check on it tomorrow
<Laney> maybe Trevinho will have replied/fixed bamf by then! :)
<Laney> laters potaters
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, I missed that
<Trevinho> Laney: I'm going to check it once I'm done with my unity work
<Laney> commented on the landing
<Laney> will look again first thing tomorrow, or you can get someone else to before then
<Laney> night!
<seb128> Laney, night
<pitti> it's so weird seeing you guys say good night :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> it's weird to see you saying good morning :p
<sarnold> seeing pitti say "goodmorning" is my cue that I've been working too long :)
<mdeslaur> hah, me too :)
<jono> hey all
<jono> is the LXC Unity 8 still being maintained?
<jono> it won't start on 15.10
<jono> I select it in LightDM and it just hangs
<qengho> Zzz
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-03
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> hey didrocks
<seb128> swinging back on the 8am start? ;-)
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<seb128> ouais, et toi ?
<seb128> no pitti, I think I was first for once :p
<hikiko> hi all :)
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> hey hikiko
<didrocks> seb128: well, you then leave for some minutes, so it's cheating :)
<didrocks> seb128: encore un ou deux trucs dans la gorge, mais Ã§a va :)
<seb128> cool
<hikiko> no :) I was first I just forgot to say hi!!
<seb128> hehe
<hikiko> (hi!!) :P
<seb128> hikiko, saying hi is part of the game ;-)
<seb128> hey hikiko!
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> hey seb128 hey didrocks hey pitty !
<darkxst> hey seb128 didrocks
<seb128> hey darkxst
<darkxst> webkit2gtk FTBFS with a segfault in ld bfd on arm64, ran out of ram perhaps?
<darkxst> that will block the transitions
<seb128> right, I just retried that a minute ago
<seb128> retried indicator-datetime on ppcel64 as well
<seb128> but trying to read http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_output.txt
<seb128> there seems to be more
<didrocks> evening darkxst
<seb128> I wonder if the 2 big groups should be hinted to go as one
<darkxst> seb128, yeh, but I couldnt find anything else looking through the GNOME stuff
<seb128> like britney is not trying to make e-d-s and gnome-desktop go together
<seb128> and they need to
<seb128> need Laney, I don't know how to hint britney to do that
<seb128> didrocks, ^ or do you know?
<didrocks> seb128: I can't hint more than touch things
<seb128> k
<didrocks> seb128: and I don't think you can either
<seb128> so let's wait for Laney
<didrocks> yep
<duflu> seb128: Are there any common devices (not made by IBM) that use the ppc archs?
<duflu> And not old Macs :)
<seb128> duflu, I've no idea sorry
<duflu> Watson... I guess.
<duflu> Oh, and PS3 is a relation of ppc
<duflu> And Wii
<didrocks> funny that some try to automate installation with pexpect and such, and don't use --help to see that there are switches already doing automation for you :)
<didrocks> (and way more reliable than pexpect)
<didrocks> nice, a new contributor!
 * didrocks really likes when new contributions can add a new framework with just few lines: https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/pull/170/files
<didrocks> (and all declarative)
<darkxst> duflu, there are embedded ppc chips, probably not exactly common though
<seb128> bah, I hate autotools
<seb128> Laney, darkxst, bug #1512435 has changes to review, I would welcome your opinions on those
<ubot5> bug 1512435 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Stop depending on gnome-control-center" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512435
<larsu> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu, how are you?
<larsu> seb128: great, thanks! Sunny morning here again
<larsu> seb128: how are you?
<seb128> same here :-)
<larsu> nice :)
<didrocks> good morning larsu!
<didrocks> sunny morning, lucky you guys
<didrocks> cloudy here
<didrocks> and not digital clouds
<larsu> bonjour didrocks!
<larsu> haha
<darkxst> seb128, I would lean towards not sharing the data, with g-c-c in universe and most normal users not having both packages installed (and its small anyway), doesnt seem a huge issue if a few static images are duplicated?
<seb128> darkxst, the issue is that things look to /usr/share/pixmaps/faces not in private subdirs
<seb128> this is supposed to be a cross desktop standard location
<seb128> so we can't easily ship the files in both packages
<seb128> they would conflict
<darkxst> seb128, right
<seb128> we could teach u-c-c to look in a private dir first and then to the normal one and include its images in a private subdir, but then we would have icons listed twice when g-c-c is installed
<seb128> or am I missing something obvious?
<darkxst> seb128, probably they would be duplicated
<darkxst> the pkla change will also work for ubuntu GNOME?
<darkxst> just keep the shared faces package I guess
<seb128> ubuntu-gnome-desktop recommends policykit-desktop-privileges
<seb128> so it should work yes
<willcooke> morning
<hikiko> I did a small experiment these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYeFN0vOG_M and I think we could have shadows for any window (here I get the window shape for shaped windows) I don't know how to do it in compiz yet but the idea I had at the sprint (that we can just draw the shape twice in the texture and do some visual effects so that it looks like a shadow) seems to be feasible ( desrt willcooke )
<hikiko> good morning willcooke
<seb128> darkxst, that binary include permissions for other things like mounting disks
<darkxst> seb128, well except for the idiots who insist on installing with --no-recommends, and then complain stuff is broken, maybe it should be a dep instead?
<seb128> your call, but it seems like it should
<larsu> hi hikiko - cool stuff!
<seb128> you can look to /var/lib/polkit-1/localauthority/10-vendor.d/com.ubuntu.desktop.pkla to see what is included in there
<willcooke> hikiko, nice!
<larsu> hey willcooke, darkxst
<seb128> hey willcooke
<darkxst> hey larsu, willcooke
<seb128> darkxst, btw new gjs has failing test on powerpc, I retried 3 times it seems to fail consistently
<seb128> build is failing on that
<hikiko> hi larsu darkxst :)
<Sweet5hark> hello desktoppers
<larsu> hi Sweet5hark
<Laney> good morning!!!!
<seb128> hey Sweet5hark
<seb128> hey Laney
<darkxst> hey hikiko
 * Sweet5hark looks at backlog, sees complains about clouds.
<Sweet5hark> we have end of the world fog here since Monday morning.
<Laney> same
<Laney> less bad today though
<darkxst> seb128, probably an endiness bug, but I have no ppc hardware to debug, just revert to ignoring ppc tests?
<seb128> darkxst, or talk to mbielb maybe he's interesting in debugging it?
<darkxst> it was that way for a long time, until someone came along and fixed them
<larsu> morning Laney!
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<didrocks> morning Sweet5hark
<darkxst> seb128, I have a feeling debian ignore tests more or less always
<seb128> darkxst, doesn't hurt to mention those issues to them in any case
<Laney> hi larsu didrocks
<Laney> how's it going
<larsu> very good thanks
<larsu> how about you?
<Laney> also good!
<Laney> pub quiz tonight ;-)
<larsu> nice!
 * seb128 feels ignored by Laney not saying hi :-(
<Laney> oh no
 * Laney purrs at seb128 
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> here for you man
 * seb128 is happier now
 * seb128 pets Laney
 * Sweet5hark just lighted the IR/redlight/heat lamp. screw you, Hamburg weather. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<darkxst> seb128, I will ping him'
<darkxst> seb128, I guess policykit-desktop-privileges recommends comes from one of the foundation seeds, and not ours
<seb128> could be
<seb128> thanks for the ping
 * Laney eyes wk2
<Laney> oh it failed before too, interesting
<Laney> oh no clicked the wrong thing
 * Laney fails
<seb128> Laney, can you tell britney to try to batch the world in one go? ;-)
<Laney> it won't work
<Laney> unity
<Laney> epiphany
<seb128> well, it would tell us if those are the only ones and it's going to be needed at some point since it doesn't try groups together, no?
<seb128> shrug, the webkit2gtk arm64 retry failed :-/
<seb128> I've a feeling it's going to be an annoying one
<Laney> the list it has seems right
<seb128> k, I think I'm just clueless with britney's output then
<seb128> I don't get why e-d-s and gnome-desktop3 are not in one set when they have common components
<seb128> they can't success without the other one
<Laney> look for this one
<Laney> Trying easy from autohinter: gnome-contacts/3.18.0-1ubuntu2 folks/0.11.1-2build2 evolution-data-server/3.18.1-1ubuntu1
<Laney> compiz needs rebuild against new libmetacity-private
<Laney> gnome-ssession is blocked at excuses
<seb128> speaking of which, when is excuses updating?
<seb128> it's over 3 hours old
<seb128> is that normal?
<Laney> every time proposed changes
<Laney> or tests come in?
<seb128> I retried tests and fixing stuff for like 2 hours
<Laney> I think
<Laney> look at the log/
<seb128> I don't understand why gnome-session doesn't pick the firefox i386 status
<seb128> it's in progress but the test failed http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/f/firefox/xenial/i386/
<seb128> I even did a retried that failed as well
<seb128> but that didn't success to change the status on the summary
<Laney> hopefully it will re-run now that I did an upload
<Laney> if nothing else
<Laney> it's supposed to see that there are tests in progress and try to run if there are
<seb128> I did retry builds that failed before and successed this time
<seb128> that's not enough to trigger a refresh either?
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> let's see if it does update
<Laney> did anyone look at the Trevinho silo?
<seb128> I didn't
<seb128> I though you were handling it
<Laney> yeah left some comments last night though
<seb128> yeah, doesn't seem like there was any activity after that
<Laney> ok
<seb128> I called it a day around the time you commente
<seb128> d
<seb128> but there is nothing in the night irc log
<seb128> need to wait for Trevinho I guess
<Trevinho> seb128: actually I was here for an hour or so, but I forgot to open IRC -_-
<Trevinho> sorry, good morning
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Laney> hi!
<Trevinho> Laney: so... did you see my comments?
<Trevinho> Laney: hi!
<Laney> sure
<Laney> you are saying that you want it to be ~bzr?
 * Trevinho didin't check th reply :P
<Laney> didn't reply
<Laney> sso was a barrier too far
<Trevinho> ah... :D
<Laney> and tell me about this {} thing in .install
<Trevinho> Laney: well, I didn't release so I thought it was a way to have the ubuntu version bumped (as pre-0.5.2 releease), but not the upstream one
<Trevinho> which one?
<Trevinho> I read the comment but I didn't understand, or maybe didn't grep too well
<Trevinho> (that branch is quite old)
<Laney> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-011-2-publish/91/artifact/bamf_packaging_changes.diff
<Laney> ~bzr means the symbols get a weird version
<seb128> Laney, Trevinho, that looks like trying to handle case where the package is multiarched or not
<seb128> is that dynamic/magic depending of the debhelper version/serie?
<Laney> that confuses me
<Laney> and I don't think dh_install really officially supports it, there used to be a lintian tag for that
<Laney> maybe still is
<seb128> for what ?
<seb128> {,}?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> I saw it used in other places I think
 * Laney shrugs, it's not supported
<seb128> could well be, I don't have any example on disk
<Laney> don't see any weird magic in the packaging either
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, the {*,} was because I wanted to support packaging even where's there's no multi-arch, but maybev it's not needed
<didrocks> would better be used for dh_exec, no?
<Trevinho> Laney: anyway any change you want, I cand do them
<Laney> seb128: looks like britney just finished a run which took ages
<Laney> so should start another one...
<seb128> Laney, ok, thanks
<Laney> already did actually
<seb128> great
<Laney> Trevinho: I would just remove that change if I were you
<seb128> shrug, why gnome-session thinks that the firefox autopkgtest is still in progress
<Laney> it probably had the results from before
<Laney> it waited for like 90 minutes at the end
<Laney> don't know why
<seb128> same gtk+3.0 thinks that gnome-photos fails
<seb128> when it doesn't, retry worked
<Laney> like the previous run was
<Laney> Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:27:05 +0000
<Laney> STATS:
<Laney> Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:31:08 +0000
<Laney> but this one...
<Laney> oops pasted the wrong bit
<Trevinho> Laney: I've spotted another small regression , so I'm going to rebuild anwyay
<Trevinho> Laney: "that change" is the .install thing=
<Trevinho> ?
<Laney> 07:26:25 -> 07:27:05 vs 08:13:08 -> 09:37:48
<Laney> Trevinho: yes
<Sweet5hark> popey: popey, old friend!
<popey> Good morning Mr Shark
<Laney> Trevinho: I don't understand what you're saying about it not being an upstream release though
<Sweet5hark> popey: which were the ppa again that you wanted to have libreoffice-vanilla stuff into?
<Laney> what is the difference between this upload and a 0.5.2 release?
<Sweet5hark> stupid me didnt copy that.
<Trevinho> Laney: to release I mean I should do the tarball, close bugs... All these annoying stuff :P
<popey> Sweet5hark, https://launchpad.net/~canonical-community/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<popey> Sweet5hark, i use that one for building then copy to /stable or /debug
<Sweet5hark> popey: ah, ok.
<Laney> Trevinho: alright
<Laney> lemme know when it's ready again
<Sweet5hark> popey: I created/pushed lp:~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice-vanilla in the libreoffice packaging team alongside the repo for debian packaging: https://code.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice-vanilla/+git/libreoffice-vanilla
<Sweet5hark> popey: we could move that to ~canonical-community, but maybe it makes more sense to keep it with the other libreoffice stuff.
<popey> It does make more sense, yes.
<Sweet5hark> popey: k
<Sweet5hark> will download the latest modifications from ~canonical-community then and commit/push them to git then. And then prepare a 5.0.3 build
<popey> Sweet5hark, magic, thanks!
<seb128> Laney, so should we do anything for those autopkg status to be updated or just wait?
<Laney> some of them are being updated
<Laney> I'll just retry all the regressions
<Laney> the ones that get stuck as "in progress" are more annoying
<Sweet5hark> popey: here is a crazy thought: should we maybe make the libreoffice-vanilla source package build LibreOffice twice (once with debug symbols, once without) and provide two binaries, instead of having two branches?
<popey> That does sound crazy, it could be very handy to have the debug build, especially on the phone, where this stuff hasn't been run much before.
<Sweet5hark> popey: advantages: no fiddling with multiple branches and multiple uploads, just one fire-and-foget source package disadvantages: takes even longer to build, not so easy to do a quick do-not-need-the-debug-stuff-build ..
<Sweet5hark> popey: you would have debug symbols. In fact you would have debug symbols all the time.
<popey> Sweet5hark, I think it's worth doing, yes.
<Sweet5hark> popey: you would have libreoffice-vanilla (source package) build twice and create two binary packages: libreoffice-vanilla and libreoffice-vanilla-debug (which wouldnt be installable at the same time).
<popey> Sweet5hark, that works for me, we could modify the build script to choose which build to integrate
<Sweet5hark> popey: and heck thats gonna be driving with a truck over the debian policy manual, but for these builds, I dont think we care much.
<popey> Sweet5hark, well, we take the deb, pick it apart and repackage it anyway ;)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, popey, hi, why aren't you stripping the dbg symbols in a different package?
<Sweet5hark> popey: ^^see
<ricotz> or even let the ppa-builders create the dbgsym package automatically
<ricotz> doing two builds are quite crazy
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: Im kinda reluctant to depend too hard on features of the debian packaging tools for this.
<ricotz> so use the dbgsym feature
<popey> I personally don't mind how it's done.
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: dpgsym feature _is_ a feature of debian packaging (and it would require changes on how we get the stuff out of the package/repackage again)
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, are you sure you know what I mean?
<ricotz> Sweet5hark, just don't strip the debugs symbols and turn on the dbgsym creation in the ppa-settings
<Sweet5hark> ricotz: yes, and then we have multiple packages that need to be installed alongside each other, have dependencies etc. -- exactly what we what to avoid in the snappy world ...
<Sweet5hark> popey: or is that ^^ ok with you/the snap-creation tools these days?
<popey> Sweet5hark, we yank the debs from the archive, unpack them and put them in the right places. if there are two locations, or two package names we can pick from, we can do that.
<popey> Sweet5hark, to be honest I expect to rarely (hah) need the debug builds, but when I need them I don't want to have to trigger some 10 hour build, but want to just switch to the debug build quickly
<Laney> seb128: just retried all regressions / in progress tests
<Laney> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running.html
<seb128> Laney, great
<seb128> is there some magic command that does that?
<Sweet5hark> popey: well, what ricotz is suggesting is to have two packages: the good old libreoffice-vanilla package (without symbols) and second one that you can install on top to get debug symbols. that the canonical old school debian packaging way.
<Laney> yeah https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure#Re-running_tests
<popey> Sweet5hark, I'm fine with that.
<Laney> I hacked it to consider in progress too, not just regressions
<Laney> (don't really understand why tests get stuck at in progress)
<seb128> Laney, great
<Sweet5hark> popey: I dont know how that works with whatever you do for snappifying. Then again, you dont need the symbols snappified, I guess as you only use it on proper desktops ...
<Sweet5hark> popey: ok.
<popey> Sweet5hark, we can work around whatever you do really :) I can just have two options in cmake, which can deal with whatever you do
<Sweet5hark> popey: kk
<ricotz> popey, so you are post-processing the built deb and not using it as is?
<popey> ricotz, kinda, we unpack it and bake it into a click package for the phone
<ricotz> popey, so just build a debug package without stripping anything, and strip the binaries in your process as needed?
<popey> Hm, not sure about that.
<ricotz> (I mean build *one* binary package which still includes the symbols)
<popey> the debug build is significantly larger, and we don't need debug much of the time
<ricotz> popey, you can strip those in your repackging process?
<ricotz> and build two snappy packages then
<popey> yeah, means downloading giant package and stripping it.
<ricotz> which is way faster than building 10hours twice
<popey> we aren't (currently) using snappy, it's click on the phone, but I see your point
<ricotz> ok, make your choice then
<anpok> hi
<anpok> havent seen robert_ancell in a while
<anpok> (especially since I try to follow natural day night cycles.. recently)
<anpok> could someone else look into updatint libinput: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1504168
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1504168 in libinput (Ubuntu) "fix handling of mx4 touch screen" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> are those patches committed?
<larsu> hello from xenial
<anpok> Laney: the last one was reviewed and approved but relies on the two before..
<anpok> the last iteration only had a problem in an edge case and two findings in the debug tools
<anpok> last one .. as in third patch in the list..
<anpok> Laney: we already carry previous versions of that patch series..
<anpok> I am also ok with first using v7 which was seen by more eyes than v8
<larsu> Trevinho: I can't build your branch :(
<larsu> Trevinho: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13090807/
<larsu> looks unrelated, but I really don
<larsu> *don't care for tracking down boost problems :/
<Trevinho> larsu: ah, yeah... on xenial...
<Trevinho> larsu: try to merge with xenial proposed branch?
<larsu> where is that?
<Trevinho> larsu: or comment that line in launchercontroller, it's not that important
<larsu> lol
<Trevinho> lp:~ci-train-bot/unity/unity-ubuntu-xenial-landing-011
<larsu> thanks - let's try this
<larsu> Trevinho: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13090856/
<Trevinho> larsu: ouch, yeah... you need new bamf then
<Trevinho> larsu: it's just better to comment that line in LaucnherCOntroller
<Trevinho> or replace it with the fixed one.... (which I can paste if youn want)
 * larsu wonders how this can even happen
<larsu> Trevinho: commenting line 153 is enough?
<Trevinho> yes...
<Trevinho> larsu: it happens because in xenial libsigc++ changed, and they removed some stuff as now they can be done with c++11
<larsu> Trevinho: they are not backwards compatible? Hm, I guess that's ok... I changed my entire OS to the next version after all
 * Trevinho now has a new shiny and cheap chinese smart plug... With openwrt. My office lights will be finally in sync with my PC :)
<Trevinho> larsu:  no, they're not
<Trevinho> larsu: they removed some classes such as sigc::group and the sigc::_N ... which were used to do computations on the fly (specifying how to handle arguments when connecting the callback)
<larsu> Trevinho: bah! Now it fails because of -Werror and a signed/unsigned comparison
<larsu> in a nux header no less
<larsu> SIGH
<Trevinho> larsu: fuck that compiler !
<Trevinho> :P
<Trevinho> That's weird though, we didn't get that in the ppa
<larsu> in NuxCore/PropertyOperators.h:191
<Trevinho> larsu: it's too early to use xenial :P, I just use an lxc for now :)
<Trevinho> larsu: mh I believe that's not where the issue is, but where the property is used
<larsu> that's what the error line says
<larsu> let me check
<Trevinho> larsu: look in the log, I guess it's inside switcher model maybe?
<happyaron> Laney: anything I can do for my PPU application?
<Laney> happyaron: just wait, shouldn't be too long
<happyaron> ok
<larsu> Trevinho: yes through the SwitcherModel, but only because it includes Nux' Property.h indirectly
<Trevinho> Laney: silo should be ready now
<Trevinho> larsu: I guess it's using a call somehwere, you can or change the 0 comparisons with
<Trevinho> 0U
<Trevinho> or... change detail_selection_index to detail_selection_index()
<larsu> in the system header?
<Trevinho> larsu: can you paste me the whole error?
<Trevinho> cause it seems something else to what I though
<larsu> yes, it is something else than what you think :)
<larsu> already scrolled passed, sorry
<Trevinho> cause yesterday I got this inside CI, but I fixed in that way
<larsu> building again without -Werror
<Trevinho> yeah, that's fine
<larsu> I hope ... just removed it from CMakeLists.txt
<willcooke> didrocks, Heard back from Cadsoft about Eagle.  They are +1 in principal, just need to get the legal stuff sorted
 * desrt yawns
<larsu> morning desrt
<desrt> good morning
 * desrt will be out for a couple of hours walking around before starting work this morning :)
<larsu> adjusting to the timezone?
<didrocks> willcooke: nice! :)
<desrt> yup
<larsu> enjoy!
<didrocks> desrt: break some nice portals ;)
<desrt> didrocks: we're heading for a part of town that is such a massive res f8 that it's ridiculous
<desrt> must be 100 p8 out here
<didrocks> enjoy ;)
<larsu> Trevinho: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13091016/
<larsu> Trevinho: I think I will stop this now.
<desrt> didrocks: thanks :)
 * larsu is off for lunch
<Trevinho> larsu: yeah, that's fine... Also because hikiko just shown me something that we could use instead of this workaround
<Trevinho> so... let's see how that goes
<Trevinho> We'd still need to add an atom to gtk windows for being able to recognize them, but not the radius
<larsu> oh ok
<larsu> off to lunch now - let me know when you have asomething I can try
<Laney> Trevinho: done
<Trevinho> Laney: â¤ï¸
<Laney> ARGH
<Laney> Trevinho: 2015-11-03 12:15:42,070 ERROR Needs review: https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity/add-launcher-icon-to-dash/+merge/275968
<Laney> 2015-11-03 12:15:42,070 ERROR unity has merges in bad states
<Laney> soz
<Trevinho> Laney: ohuch, yeah andyrock forgot to top-approve..
<Trevinho> I did it myself
<Laney> ok, ty
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> how's austin?
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> still dark -- woke up at 5:30 again :)
<Laney> poor roommate :P
<pitti> it's actually not even existant yet -- thick fog, can't see a thing :)
 * pitti wanted to go running this morning, meh
<pitti> Laney: nah, barry just woke up, he was fine
<didrocks> ok, going to run for the first time after last week being sick, wish me luck!
<willcooke> good luck didrocks
<didrocks> thanks willcooke ;)
<seb128> didrocks, good luck!
<seb128> Laney, I guess you saw https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/refresh-mir-3/+merge/276420?
<seb128> pitti, is looking at the apport autopkgtest issue still on your todolist?
<Laney> yeah it made me want a cookie
<seb128> Laney, :-)
<Laney> probably want to clear the way before uploading this though
<Laney> found this upstream bug for the ld thing https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=19188
<seb128> right
<ubot5> sourceware.org bug 19188 in ld "[2.26 Regression] binutils assertion fail ../../bfd/elfnn-aarch64.c:4631" [Normal,Assigned]
<seb128> hum
<seb128> wonder if doko knows of a workaround we could use meanwhile
<pitti> seb128: yes, it is, but probably not this week
<seb128> pitti, ok, can we easily override those to not block things meanwhile?
<hikiko|ln> Trevinho, also: https://transfer.sh/VEOwY/out-14.ogv I think we can catch all shapes :)
<hikiko|ln> bbl
<hikiko|ln> (that's 2 multi-rectangle shapes)
<willcooke> UOS keynote starting:  http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22614/mark-shuttleworth-uos-opening-keynote/
<pitti> seb128: sure, I force-badtested it last week already, aport doesn't block anything
<seb128> pitti, oh, right, it's written at the bottom of the section
<qengho> good morning
<seb128> hey qengho
<desrt> qengho: good morning
<larsu> desrt: honestly, I don't know what smvcs point is on the no-reply-expected bugs
 * desrt takes another look
<larsu> thanks
<larsu> Laney, seb128: I also can't reproduce changing text size in a11y settings
<larsu> or do you mean that an existing bubble doesn't get updated immediately?
<seb128> larsu, what I do is
<larsu> (sorry, this is about bug #1303796)
<ubot5> bug 1303796 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Display scaling is not applied runtime" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1303796
<seb128> - mouseover the indicator sound, see small bubble
<seb128> - go to the a11y panel, turn on a11y big text
<seb128> - scroll over the indicator
<seb128> - turn those off
<seb128> - scroll again
<seb128> after that the bubble are bigger than when I started
<seb128> those->big text
<seb128> but basically same with notify-send "bug"
<seb128> you just need to wait for bubbles to timeout between steps
<seb128> also the first bubble after enabling a11y doesn't have big text
<seb128> but it get it after turning the option off?!
<seb128> larsu, ^ let me know if you see that
<larsu> seb128: no, I'm not ...
<seb128> :-(
<larsu> let me check with the immediate bubbles
<seb128> are you bubbles getting bigger text at some point?
<larsu> yes, when I enable large text
<larsu> but they're back to normal once I change back
<larsu> same for volume / brightness
<larsu> (oh, wrong icon for volume now?!)
<larsu> seb128: I take it all back, I see it with the volume bubble as well
<Laney> larsu: they got stuck in big mode
<larsu> apparently that switch sets more settings than text-scaling-factor (I changed that from gsettings)
<Laney> and when I killed notify-osd it went back to normal
<Laney> but yesterday I couldn't make it happen
<seb128> gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Interface text-scale-factor 1.3
<seb128> I get it sometime with that
<Laney> I only ever used the slider
 * Laney can't remember all the scaling factor knobs
<seb128> but it doesn't seem consistent
<larsu> seb128: I used the gnome one - why do we have both?
<seb128> because unity tries to be smart and adjust the different gnome scaling according to its scaling
<larsu> ugh, really?
 * larsu bets this is the problem
<seb128> could be
<seb128> Laney, pitti, can you tell britney that gvfs tests are fine now, it seems to not pick the updated status (e.g on gtk+3.0)
<seb128> also is the libreoffice i386 "test in progress" buggy?
<pitti> yes
<seb128> http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libr/libreoffice/xenial/i386/ states tmpfailed
<pitti> looking at that stuff, there were some tmpfails again
<seb128> danke
<Laney> pitti: do you know why things get stuck on "in progress"?
<pitti> Laney: ^ FYI, for mass-retrying the tmpfails correctly it's easiest to just remove proposed-migration/data/xenial-proposed/autopkgtest/pending.txt (while britney is not running)
<Laney> is it always tmpfail?
<pitti> Laney: tmpfail or in the queue or running, yes
<pitti> Laney: but we had another case last night on cuneiform
<Laney> when they're *stuck*
<Laney> the latter two will clear
<pitti> it ran the wrong version as tests weren't using apt sources for restricted/multiverse -proposed
<pitti> I just fixed that
<pitti> and re-ran cuneiform
<Laney> ah
<Laney> is there a bug that a new gvfs triggered by gtk+3.0 wasn't queued?
<Laney> pitti: ^?
<pitti> so that was another reason -- it was expecting results for build4, but got build3
<pitti> and I just removed pending.txt to re-run the tmpfails, should be all fine again
<seb128> is there anything one can do to sort those issues?
<pitti> Laney: how do you mean not triggered? it regressed
<pitti> so it needs to be re-run
<seb128> out of pinging around
<Laney> seb128 uploaded gvfs
<Laney> which fixed the tests
<pitti> ah, but that didn't re-run it against gtk+3.0, right
<Laney> so gtk's gvfs test should go green
 * Laney nods
<Sweet5hark> ahhh, nice. an "it only breaks on the builder breaker" ...
<pitti> ubuntu_archive:x:2552:cjwatson,seb128,doko,pitti,adconrad,vorlon,didrocks,stgraber,laney
<pitti> seb128: ^ yes, there is
<seb128> pitti, I tried to run run-autopkgtest  on snakefruit but that didn't seem to be enough
<seb128> or maybe I did something wrong
<pitti> seb128: these folks can re-run tests individually (run-autopkgtest), mass-re-run regressions (retry-autopkgtest-regressions), mass re-run tmpfails (rm pending.txt)
 * pitti documents the latter on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/AutopkgtestInfrastructure#Administration
<seb128> pitti, k
<Laney> did someone retry the gvfs/gtk?
 * Laney tries a matplotlib fix
<pitti> Laney: sorted
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> (in what way?)
<pitti> I documented the current tmpfail rerun procedure now
 * pitti bbl
<willcooke> #startmeeting Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  3 15:30:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Got a UOS session starting in 30 mins so need to be quick today
<desrt> o/
<willcooke> Roll call:
<larsu> \o
<willcooke> andyrock (out), attente, desrt,  dgadomski, didrocks, fjkong,
<willcooke> happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, larsu, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out),
<willcooke> tkamppeter (out), trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<hikiko> hello
<seb128> hey!
<larsu> ah, too quick :)
<Sweet5hark> heya
<attente> hey
<qengho> Oh dang.
<didrocks> hey
<willcooke> #topic AndrewMC
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: AndrewMC
<willcooke> oops
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: andyrock
<willcooke> * investigating on lockscreen regression  reported  by Pat. I built a PPA with a possibile fix but  Looks like it does not  work. I ll need to  build another PPA adding debug strings and ask Pat to  send us the logs.
<willcooke> * TreviÃ±o's reviews
<willcooke> sorry AndrewMC - ignore
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: attente
 * willcooke needs to slow down on the auto-complete
<attente> fixed touch input with gtk-mir on the phone, still need to hash out a "single-surface mode" for gtk to actually be usable on the phone
<attente> fought with qmake to add gdbus bindings to maliit-framework upstream
<attente> porting maliit-inputcontext-gtk from dbus-glib to gdbus, will package it once done. or might give up and just package it as is anyways
<attente> followed up with security team about dconf apparmor confinement, they're probably too busy for it this cycle
<attente> (eof)
<larsu> vi
<larsu> (sorry)
<willcooke> thanks attente!
<attente> ls
<desrt> attente: thanks for poking about the apparmor stuff again
<desrt> cd
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> let's just say "bugs" and move on
<desrt> (in the interest of speedy meeting)
<willcooke> right so
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> * testing fix for bug #1510824 - waiting for feedback to confirm it's working
<ubot5> bug 1510824 in policykit-1 (Ubuntu Wily) "PolkitAgentSession ignores multiline output (with pam_vas)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1510824
<dgadomski> * investigating a problem with large number of defunct processes from a respawning daemon (may be related to bug #406397, bug #530779), trying to reproduce it
<ubot5> bug 406397 in upstart "init: job stuck with expect fork/daemon when parent reaps child" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406397
<ubot5> bug 530779 in upstart "init: does not wait for parent to exit when following forks" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/530779
<dgadomski> * got positive feedback from independent sources about the fix to bug #1337873, waiting for SRU
<ubot5> bug 1337873 in ifupdown (Ubuntu) "Precise, Trusty, Utopic - ifupdown initialization problems caused by race condition" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337873
<dgadomski> * I think polkit debugging is not documented well enough (setting POLKIT_DEBUG, G_DEBUG_MESSAGES for polkitd and polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1, do you have an idea what would be the best place to have it documented
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<dgadomski> thanks
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
<didrocks> - a lot of PR reviews and tutoring (netbeans, rust). Another new contributor is on the pipe with CLion support!
<didrocks> - merged 2 external contributors pull requests (better env variable for android NDK, better user prompting for restarting shell session).
<didrocks> - medium tests now run in our jenkins infra! Did a lot of work/testing roundtrips to enable this both on master and system versions (had to change some stuff so that system version can run in the container with a real file system layout): https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/udtc-trusty-tests/2192/testReport/. Now at 828 tests running \o/
<didrocks> - add --remove as a global option in addition to a framework one (so umake --remove <category> <framework> works as well as umake <category> <framework> --remove).
<didrocks> - add --version support returning current ubuntu make version (different versioning scheme if released, if from branch, if from branch + dirty content, if from branch without git installedâ¦) + backed by tests.
<didrocks> - ensure decompressor and download manager handle both well multiple decompressions/downloads in parallel with the BaseInstaller framework (will be used for Twine). Add more unit and large tests to cover those cases as well.
<didrocks> - enable as well direct asset download filtering in BaseInstaller without decompressing (same, will be used for Twine).
<didrocks> - enable for medium test framework to serve the fake assets on multiple ports and hostnames inside the containers. Adapt tests framework to this new API.
<didrocks> - misc smaller fixes like more robust medium tests execution, parallel download progress total size reconciliation, zsh env variable removal, variable refactoringâ¦ + back them up with tests of course.
<didrocks> - bugs/feature requests/user questions handling.
<didrocks> Misc:
<didrocks> - some NEWing and AA duties.
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> didrocks, thanks - whose are the Jenkins servers?
<willcooke> who is admining them?
<didrocks> willcooke: the CI team
<willcooke> nice
<willcooke> that's great
<didrocks> however, I have admin rights on it
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> and so, creating/handing my jobs
<didrocks> (just not messing with their :p)
<willcooke> nice, thanks for sorting that
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: FJKong
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. Released fix for a crash in sogoupinyin.
<willcooke> 2. Following the cn.archive.ubuntu.com issue with Aliyun and NEU.
<willcooke> 3. ZFS package improvements.
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hi! 1- shadows for shaped and multi-rect windows proof of concept  lp:xgetshape and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYeFN0vOG_M 2- I am looking at the decorations code to do a similar trick inside unity  3- still searching the phantom-bugs that block the ezoom development :D (eof)
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Short week because I was on hols
<Laney> â¢ before that I went to the release sprint - helped test images, fix various bugs (mainly installer), and decide what we should let in and what not
<Laney> â¢ Fixed nautilus smb crash, SRUed it too
<Laney> â¢ Push at a big GNOME transition ball this week, some no-change rebuilds and some real fixes
<Laney> â¢ Fix/retry many autopkgtests to try to get things migrating (gtk, glib, the previous transition)
<Laney> â¢ shepherding some train things
<Laney> â¢ worked a bit on gtk 3.18, in the desktop ppa, please test (soon to be uploaded to X)
<Laney> â¢ chats about font
<Laney> â
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: larsu
<larsu> more bug fixes this week:
<larsu> - nautilus desktop rendering hidpi problems
<larsu> - gsettings-qt needed yet another workaround for that qt eventloop bug
<larsu> - accountsservice log spam: got a glib patch, but there's some discussion about whether we should change the dbus spec as well (thanks desrt for helping out)
<larsu> - finished up and pushed that patch that makes glib not crash when using gactiongroup from python (after code review)
<larsu> - in progress: notify-osd bubbles stay large after toggling large-text back and forth
<larsu> I think that's it... I can never remember everything when doing bug work
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> - some mir-ozone-chromium catch up.
<qengho> - more translations work. the GRD+XTB<-->POT+PO pump had more missing features than I remembered.
<qengho> - default-browser bug still needs testing on xfce, kde, etc. My upstream bug fix still not merged. :(
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ backported gtk fixed for nautilus segfault issue and gnome-screenshot quality issues on hidpi
<seb128> â¢ helped larsu to test nautilus hidpi/scaling fixes
<seb128> â¢ lot of Debian merges and updates
<seb128> â¢ worked on some of the ongoing xenial transitions (e-d-s, cheese, libgtop, libgnomecanvasmm, poppler)
<seb128> â¢ reviewed incoming bugs and e.u.c report to ensure we don't have big issues in wily
<seb128> â¢ test gtk 3.18 candidate update, seems mostly working fine (though one annoying issue with bg color on loading)
<seb128> </week>
<larsu> seb128: thanks again for that :)
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<larsu> (and being patient)
<seb128> larsu, yw, thanks for the fixes!
<Sweet5hark> - updated to 5.0.3 wily in the ppa
<Sweet5hark> - updated to 4.4.6 vivid in the ppa
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream work on clang service name matching
<Sweet5hark> - added scrollwheel navigation to TabBar of LibreOffice Sidebar upstream
<Sweet5hark> - some upstream code review
<Sweet5hark> - helped getting libreoffice git repos live mirrored on launchpad via gerrit replication
<Sweet5hark> - created git repo for libreoffice packaging on launchpad
<Sweet5hark> - updating libreoffice vanilla/minimal as a base for snap/click to 5.0.3 (ongoing)
<Sweet5hark> -- there seems to be a race condition on parallel builds :-/
<Sweet5hark> - various coordination on UX wrt. sidebar and themes
<Sweet5hark> - some review of replies to ongoing tenders/job offers by TDF
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Almost completed Orca gsettings backend work, found a few issues due to me not reading deeply enough into how Orca handles some internal settings, hoefully will have something by the end of the week.
<willcooke> * Uploaded PulseAudio 7.1 to Xenial.
<willcooke> * Further mapping out of the accessibility profile code/API.
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Released 1.1.0 which allows to define default option settings for new cups-browsed-generated print queues in cups-browsed.conf, cups-browsed remembering option setting changes when a remote printer disappears and re-appears, IP-based URIs for generated queues (for the phone), configurable load balancing, and bug fixes in cups-browsed and foomatic-rip.
<willcooke> - pysmbc: Replaced former python-smbc source package by Debian's pysmbc package so that we can sync from Debian here.
<willcooke> - cups-filters: Started studying viability of a rastertoxps filter to support XPS-only printers.
<willcooke> - Reported bug (bug 1509423) about the problem of cupsd not being able to start its sub-processes, no answer after one week.
<ubot5> bug 1509423 in cups (Ubuntu) "cupsd on the phone is unable to run sub processes, they all cause "Command not found"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509423
<willcooke> - Bugs.
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: Trevinho
<seb128> Sweet5hark, should we get  5.0.3 in xenial?
<FJKong> willcooke: ping
<FJKong> sorry late
<willcooke> nw FJKong - will come back to you in a mo
<Sweet5hark> seb128: I wouldnt bother TBH.
<seb128> k
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Xenial package updates
<willcooke> - Packge syncs with Debian
<willcooke> - LightDM bugfixes
<willcooke> - LightDM 1.17.1, 1.6.5, 1.14.3 releases
<willcooke> - LightDM stable release updates
<willcooke> - XMir testing / package updating
<willcooke> #topic FJKong
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: FJKong
<FJKong> Sogou IM
<FJKong> * check with new bug of skin problem, not produce yet
<FJKong> * continue on new feature of animate skin
<FJKong> pinyin search:
<FJKong> find some GUI tool to add task, make it more easy
<FJKong> that's all
<willcooke> thanks FJKong
<willcooke> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: Any Other Business
<willcooke> Obviously, UOS this week
<Sweet5hark> seb128: there is already an 5.1.0~alpha1 tagged upstream. Having that for xenial in the prereleases ppa would be priority before any 5.0/xenial updates. Dint have that yet.
<willcooke> Other news:  Have started the ball rolling on a sprint in April
<Sweet5hark> \o/
<willcooke> Back to UOS news:
<willcooke> In 13 mins there is a QA session for desktop
<willcooke> If you want to get involved in that session please come along
<didrocks> time to ask embarassing questions on IRC to willcooke then :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Also check the schedule for other desktop sessions this week
<willcooke> Anyone got anything else?  If not I will go and finish getting the Hangout set up
<didrocks> nothing for me
<willcooke> Hopefully next week will be back to "normal"
<Sweet5hark> didrocks: "Why are my libreoffice icons so ugly when directly installing from ISO?"
<didrocks> oh yeah!
<Trevinho> willcooke: I missed my topic sorry...
<didrocks> and why my buttons are going on the right in the installer mode, is it the new default? :p
<Trevinho> willcooke: can I paste it now?
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
 * Sweet5hark hides in a corner and cries.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg | Weekly Desktop Team Meeting - 2015-11-03 | Current topic: Trevinho
<willcooke> Trevinho, go go go!
<Trevinho> Â· Renamed rls-w-incoming bugs to rls-x-incoming
<Trevinho> Â· Added keybindings to unity to only open in spread the windows of the focused application.
<Trevinho> Â· Add Quicklist item to desktop-less apps to add them to the dash (generating .desktop file, if possibile)
<Trevinho> Â· Done a switcher model refactory so that it's dynamic (it updates promptly when an app/window opens/closes)
<Trevinho> Â· Improved unity keyboard utils, so that it's possible to get key near to another in any position
<Trevinho> Â· Added a new keybinding to the: Switcher Alt+key_right_to_Tab (Q for non French guys :P) now closes the selected app/window.
<Trevinho> Â· The \"landing-011\" saga is over. The whole new unity7 stack is in xenial.
<Trevinho> î¿î¿î¿
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<Trevinho> yw
<willcooke> oki, ending the meeting, thanks everyone for being quick
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently while updating the bug list for release http://pad.ubuntu.com/6aWG0SagNg
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  3 15:50:26 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-11-03-15.30.moin.txt
<tkamppeter> willcooke, only for putting the right date for the Sprint, next years OpenPrinting Summit is April 26 - 28 in Boise, Idaho at HP.
<willcooke> tkamppeter, oki will bear that in mind
<tkamppeter> willcooke, Only to avoid a clash of the dates.
<qengho> hrm, four people in the UOS convergence channel that I don't know.
<qengho> Sprint in Boise!
 * qengho jokes.
<seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, so my compiz/unity is eating 100% cpu for some hours now, unsure if I can get useful details
<seb128> I think that's an issue
<seb128> #2  0xb757d1b6 in std::__atomic_futex_unsigned_base::_M_futex_wait_until(unsigned int*, unsigned int, bool, std::chrono::duration<long long, std::ratio<1ll, 1ll> >, std::chrono::duration<long long, std::ratio<1ll, 1000000000ll> >) () from /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6
<seb128> #3  0xaf9d104f in unity::lockscreen::UserAuthenticatorPam::ConversationFunction(int, pam_message const**, pam_response**, void*) () from /usr/lib/compiz/libunityshell.so
<seb128> #4  0xae8eb243 in pam_vprompt () from /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libpam.so.0
<seb128> my session is unlocked
<seb128> unsure why a thread is in pam code
<qengho> seb128: Long long ago, I saw a PAM-related problem that involved some DNS failure in logging, which ate CPU time.
<seb128> qengho, yeah, unsure what it was, first time I see that issue
<seb128> I killed compiz and it respawned and now it's fine
<Laney> pitti: do you know why gvfs/ppc64el didn't go green?
<pitti> Laney: apparently I missed the retry
<Laney> pitti: I don't see a retry
<Laney> for the other arches - so thought you did something else
<pitti> hrmpf VPN, it's driving me nuts
<Laney> I can do a retry if that's all
<Laney> it just looked like other magic
<Laney> e.g. http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/g/gvfs/xenial/i386/ has no run for glib
<pitti> yes, please do
<Laney> yet it went green
<pitti> Laney: ah, I think for glib I just updated the flag in results.cache
<Laney> ha
<pitti> but proper retries are cleaner
<pitti> and we need to get used to them anyway
<pitti> as soon enough it really matters
<Laney> oh you can have multiple triggers
<pitti> *nod* (still)
 * pitti runs "retry-autopkgtest-regressions |grep gvfs"
<Laney> did it
<pitti> ah, good, thanks
<Laney> exactly that
<Laney> laney@nightingale> retry-autopkgtest-regressions | grep gvfs                                                                                                                                   ~/temp
<pitti> snakefruit feels like tar ATM
<Laney> run-autopkgtest -s xenial -a ppc64el --trigger=glib2.0/2.46.1-2 --trigger=gtk+3.0/3.16.7-0ubuntu5 --trigger=libmtp/1.1.10-2 gvfs
<Laney> laney@nightingale> run-autopkgtest -s xenial -a ppc64el --trigger=glib2.0/2.46.1-2 --trigger=gtk+3.0/3.16.7-0ubuntu5 --trigger=libmtp/1.1.10-2 gvfs                                            ~/temp
<Laney> laney@nightingale>                                                                                                                                                                             ~/temp
<Laney> :)
<Laney> pitti: do you have/want a bug for these tests not being triggered?
<pitti> Laney: re-triggered on failure you mean? yeah, we should add some heuristics for that
<Laney> this case is for the new upload
<Laney> you'll want to re-run tests for all the waiting packages, I figure
 * Laney files it
<pitti> so if trigger foo causes a regression in package bar, and then package bar gets uploaded, britney should re-run bar for foo too
<Laney> yes, that
<pitti> (but not the other way around, i. e. pass-> fail)
<seb128> charles, hey, could you have a look to bug #1512798? it seems a regression from one of your changes prevous cycle
<ubot5> bug 1512798 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Doesn't update range when volume boost option is enabled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1512798
<seb128> yeah, gtk update went through ;-)
<Laney> omg
<Laney> matplotlib is still failing
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> oh wait
<Laney> it got the old version
<didrocks> nice, the download section of arduino is down
<didrocks> I wonder if I should warn them (got it from ubuntu make tests :p)
<Laney> look at the hint for $gnome_stuff
<Laney> it's really just epiphany now
<willcooke> didrocks, :)
<charles> seb128, let me run it by xavigarcia first since he's been putting a lot of work into indicator-sound this last month
<charles> seb128, if he doesn't want to pick it up I'll assign it to myself
<seb128> charles, thanks
<didrocks> ok, time to go, have a good evening guys!
<larsu> I would say "enjoy didrocks", but as usual, he's already gone
<seb128> yeah, I managed to tell him "good w.e" before he left on friday, I was quite happy about it, it's not every week ;-)
<Laney> I bet the lid is already 90% closed by the time he hits enter anyway
<Laney> ooooooooooooh it's climbing tiiiiiimeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<Laney> SLASH QUIT BYE
 * Laney didn't really go yet
<larsu> Laney: enjoy!
<Laney> ...guysssssssss
<Laney> phew
<Laney> happy evening larsu seb128 willcooke pitti charles
<Laney> aka "people who have text that I can see on my screen"
<charles> :)
<willcooke> cheers Laney
<pitti> Laney: good night!
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too!
<willcooke> right, quittin time
<willcooke> g'ngiht
<prasad_> Hi
<prasad_> I'm a software developer, and willing to contribute for bug fixes
<prasad_> Obviously I don't know how it's managed
<prasad_> I've eye on bug#1154364,
<TheMuso> bug 1154364
<ubot5> bug 1154364 in unity (Ubuntu) "Search isn't completed before launching app" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154364
<prasad_> yes
<prasad_> Has anybody started working on it?
<sarnold> I wonder if the #ubuntu-unity channel may know better what needs to be done
<prasad_> Oh, I came here, following Will's suggestion(http://www.whizzy.org/2015/09/big-bug-bonanza-16-04-lts/). I'll check there.
<sarnold> ah :)
<prasad_> thanks !!!
<TheMuso> Its worth noting that its the end of the day for EU folks, and I think most unity devs are in the EU.
<prasad_> Yes
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-04
<n8s> hi there channel
<n8s> anyone around to help me with a mouse question?
<hikiko> hi
<didrocks> good morning!
<darkxst> seb128, bug 1511542
<ubot5> bug 1511542 in unity (Ubuntu) " [2.26 Regression] binutils assertion fail ../../bfd/elfnn-aarch64.c:4631" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511542
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> what about it?
<didrocks> hey darkxst, seb128
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<darkxst> seb128, webkit2gtk build failure
<darkxst> hey didrocks seb128
<seb128> darkxst, right, see backlog from yesterday, Laney pinged doko about it to know if there is a workaround
<seb128> but I don't think he got one
<darkxst> I don't think there is one
<darkxst> upstream seem to know what the problem is, but no patches as yet
<larsu_> good morning!
<seb128> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<larsu> seb128: great thanks! Sitting in a cafe drinking orange mint juice
<larsu> how about you?
<seb128> orange mint, interesting ;-)
<Trevinho> Morning
<larsu> hey Trevinho!
<Trevinho> Hey larsu
<Trevinho> This "new life", made me become an early bird... :o
<seb128> larsu, I'm good thanks, played some tennis yesterday evening and now I just moved from morning-email-reading-in the couch to my desk (with some bread&jam&coffee in between)
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<larsu> seb128: tasty!
<didrocks> hey larsu, Trevinho!
<larsu> morning didrocks! Ãa va?
<Trevinho> hi didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va et toi ?
<larsu> nickel
<seb128> larsu, thanks for the notify-osd fix!
<larsu> seb128: yw!
<didrocks> hum, do I miss anything obvious? https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89173490
<didrocks> I do install python3-yaml
<didrocks> runtests is /usr/bin/env python3
<larsu> didrocks: weird!
<didrocks> isn't it?
<larsu> works locally in my system (but it is xenial)
<larsu> maybe some issue with python3-yaml in t?
<seb128> didrocks, dpkg -L python3-yaml | grep .so ?
<didrocks> can be, but I think we would have noticed first (and the tests on the jenkins dc works)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I guess I'm going to do that (forced to push a branch for each commit though)
<didrocks> let's see https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89174966
<seb128> the deb seems fine, weird
<didrocks> but it passed the other imports before failing
<didrocks> yeah, the deb seems fine in the env as well
 * didrocks tries to prepend runtests with "python" in case /usr/bin/env python3 refers to python2â¦
<didrocks> (that would be silly, but meh)
<didrocks> https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89175345
<larsu> that website is pretty cool
<larsu> didn't know they updated logs without refresh
<didrocks> yep no, didn't workâ¦
<larsu> are you sure python is 3?
<larsu> it's not for me on x
<didrocks> larsu: see python --version on top
 * larsu nods
<didrocks> the weird part is that other imports work first: https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/blob/master/runtests#L21
<didrocks> ok, at least that confirms: https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89176238
 * didrocks tries with another non built-in module like pexpect
<didrocks> ok same: https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89176783
<didrocks> so, it means that non of built-in modules are working, I guess it's the triggers compiling them in .pyc failing
<didrocks> (or not running)
<seb128> could well be
<didrocks> found it: http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/languages/python/#Travis-CI-Uses-Isolated-virtualenvs
<didrocks> so, it means I have to roll back on testing in virtualenv (meaning, compiling python-apt not available in pip)
<Laney> homies
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<seb128> hoi Laney
<didrocks> oh right, but python3-gi isn't available either on pypyâ¦ :/
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> good! had fun at tennis yesterday
<seb128> what about you?
<Laney> are you good enough to compete now? ;-)
<Laney> climbing + pub quiz was good
<Laney> there was a question about germany which I knew from my trip!
<seb128> I'm good enough to play matches with other beginners and have fun
<seb128> I even sometime manage to challenge people that a better technically than me so it's good ;-)
<seb128> which one?
<Laney> what was the capital of west germany?
<Laney> wouldn't have known that before
 * Laney youth
<seb128> yeah, I wouldn't have known either
<Laney> :-)
<larsu> morning Laney!
<Laney> hey larsu!
<Laney> you good?
<larsu> Laney: very, thanks. Did you win the quiz?
<Laney> nah
<Laney> I didn't know what the name of the first Rolls Royce car was
<Laney> or the area that the McFlys live in in Back To The Future
<larsu> wow, hard questions
<Laney> I also can't remember what the answers were :P
<larsu> lol
<Laney> hope they don't come up ever again in my life
<didrocks> ugliest hack ever \o/
<didrocks> (can't use a system virtualenv and can't install gobject in pypy, so had to do it :/)
<andyrock> morning
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<davmor2> didrocks: that's an outrageous lie, ever is a long time I'm sure you will come up with something uglier :P
<didrocks> ahah
<didrocks> ok, found a less-worse way to "fix it" (and escape from virtualenv)
<Laney> well done!
<didrocks> https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/commit/db38b8c53c1729d0eaa7e95b6c0a8c173bf912d4 :p
<didrocks> the "magic" was just to add /usr/bin to PATH (before the virtualenv one)
<didrocks> trying to have virtualenv both liking pure-python module (with PYTHONPATH), but also compiled one (like python-apt) was a nightmareâ¦
<didrocks> and https://travis-ci.org/ubuntu/ubuntu-make/builds/89194583 should be happy again :)
 * didrocks will then readd badge and run that on PR (even if it's only pep8 and small tests, that's already somethingâ¦)
 * didrocks should see if the access to dockerhub is granted to run medium testsâ¦
<didrocks> large tests, I doubt, there isn't a full machine with unity installed
<Trevinho> seb128: do you know why it might happen that - only on i386  and in jekins - unity tries to run make check also (not only make check-headless)
<seb128> Trevinho, no idea
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, np... i didn't see antyhing weird on rules about that
<seb128> could be something in the env, special hack or something...
<pitti> Good morning
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! wieder 5:30 aufgewacht...
<pitti> i. e. seems I'm in perfect sync with the timezone, just like at home :)
<seb128> I was going to say :-)
<pitti> how are you guys?
<Laney> ahoy pitti
<didrocks> yeah pitti!
 * pitti ^5s Laney and didrocks
<seb128> pitti, good! busy doing debian merges and updates ;-)
<seb128> pitti, how is the sprint going?
<pitti> seb128: quite well indeed! mostly worked on the autopkgtest MaaS stuff yesterday, and some small apport fixes with Brian (more of that today)
<larsu> morning pitti!
<larsu> too bad you're not in Berlin though ;)
<pitti> hey larsu!
<pitti> larsu: yeah, I'm regretting this too
<larsu> pitti: I might go for you
<pitti> larsu: prepped my talk with Michael last week, but won't be able to present it with him
<larsu> pitti: oh? Why not?
<seb128> larsu, what is in Berlin?
<larsu> seb128: systemd conference
<pitti> larsu: because 7000 km? :-)
<seb128> oh, ok
<larsu> pitti: oh, a talk here... I thought in Austin
<attente> good morning
<larsu> morning attente!
<pitti> wow, it's not totally foggy today, time for some running
<Laney> indeed, I can see the prison up the hill today
<Laney> such joy
<seb128> hey attente
<desrt> good morning desktop
<seb128> hey desrt
<seb128> looks like I got used to you being on an european tz, it's feeling weird to see you get online now ;-)
 * desrt is almost back in the fold of things
<desrt> but first: breakfast!
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<willcooke> Laney, ara confirmed that the HW Cert tests are using the normal ISOs, but uses Ubiquity pre-seeds
<willcooke> Laney, but we can't run them "on demand" on their infra.  Considering our options, perhaps we can get our own infra to test on?  Finding out...
<seb128> RAOF, hey, do you plan to update colord(-gtk) in Debian/xenial?
<didrocks> and webstorm just fixed their md5sum :p
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> TheMuso, there is a gnome-orca .1 update, would be nice if you could have a look
<RAOF> seb128: Yes. Let me check my git repository...
<seb128> RAOF, hey, I didn't expect you to be up ... are you in Austin?
<RAOF> No, London.
<seb128> oh, ok ;-)
<RAOF> Oh, so colord 1.2.12 is in git. And I haven't tried to upload it because...
<Laney> willcooke: when are they run then?
<willcooke> Laney, cron job by the sounds of things.  Going to see if I can get a meeting with someone on their team next week to get all the low down details.  I will let you know when that is
<Laney> righto
<Laney> Not sure we want to be on the hook maintaining some infrastructure...
<Laney> these new ubiquity tests will already be better
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> Laney, you've got mail
<Laney> how exciting!
<Laney> Subject: P45 enclosed
<Laney> :(
<willcooke> It's from this guy whose uncle is some big deal in Nigeria.  Sounds like a pretty sweet deal
<willcooke> Is 419 even a thing any more?  I miss those guys
<Laney> Ah they offer to merge changes
<Laney> maybe it wouldn't be too hard...
 * Laney runs
<qengho> Oh, Larissa. She's so wise.
<willcooke> qengho, I thought Marrisa was his favourite
<qengho> willcooke: I think Marissa is responsible for the ducks.
<willcooke> :D
<mhall119> willcooke: are you all set for your developer destkop session?
<willcooke> mhall119, yeah all good thanks
<willcooke> It's the desktop session at UOS now.  desktoppers:  if you want to join the call: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeH-spuCQ64ZSU22T5-bbBTyadsSoxk_ogT9vAXnTefcoiR-w?hl=en-GB&authuser=0
 * didrocks goes to IRC channel
<hikiko> +1
<Laney> what is the channel?
<Laney> oh!
<larsu> Laney: hm? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1511/meeting/22576/developer-desktop-plan-1604/
<Laney> the IRC channel
<Laney> there now
<larsu> oh maybe I should join that as well :)
<attente> i have to take my dad to the doctor, bbl
<Laney> gl
<Laney> !
<Laney> trying: glib2.0 accepted: glib2.0
<Laney> woot
<pitti> \o/
<pitti> Laney: you fixed why?
<Laney> I forced it
<Laney> started working up the stack of uninsts to get it to pass
<Laney> but it's like 4 levels deep, didn't fancy waiting for that
<Laney> should get it uploaded today hopefully
<Laney> in time to sync glib tomorrow after I upload it to exp shortly ;-)
<Laney> shortly> not started working on it yet though
<mhall119> bregma: are you all set for the legacy apps support session in ~15 min?
<bregma> mhall119, as ready as I'll ever be
<seb128> Trevinho, let me know if you need debug info about bug #1513110
<ubot5> bug 1513110 in unity (Ubuntu) "global menus are broken and cannot be clicked" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513110
<seb128> I've it too and though it was maybe a local issue and waited to restart my session
<seb128> it seems u-p-s exit when clicking a menu
<bregma> mhall119, we have a demo video, is there a way to play that over a hangout?
<seb128> no segfault in gdb
<seb128> just process exits
<Laney> what made that start?
<Laney> new unity didn't migrate
<seb128> dunno, I had 300M of xenial updates yesterday
<Laney> you are on the previous one right?
<seb128> do you see the issue as well?
<Laney> didn't restart session
<seb128> ii  unity                                                 7.3.2+15.10.20151016-0ubuntu1               i386         Interface designed for efficiency of space and interaction.
<Laney> so yes
<seb128> Laney, try to killall unity-panel-service it might be enough
<mhall119> bregma: screen share is the best way I think
<pitti> oh, menu bar trouble?
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> cyphermox filed bug 1513110
<ubot5> bug 1513110 in unity (Ubuntu) "global menus are broken and cannot be clicked" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513110
<Laney> naughty bug reporter
<seb128> pitti, yeah, see backlog
<Laney> not including the version
<Laney> :)
<willcooke> bregma, I'm due to be in a Python 3 session in 10 mins - do you need me to be in the legacy apps session?
<bregma> willcooke, no, we're really just talking about Libertine then taking questions
<willcooke> bregma, I have questions!! ;)
<bregma> I mean, you're welcome to come but it's OK if you don't
<bregma> maybe it's better if you don't
<willcooke> bregma, I'll catch up with the recording in the morning
<Laney> seb128: got it on a quite small upgrade set
<Laney> nux, gtk in there :)
<bregma_> mhall119, uh, how do I set up a hangout for UOS again?
 * bregma_ makes a sad face
<didrocks> bregma_: I guess the "all set" was to ensure you were prepared :p
<didrocks> bregma_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions
<seb128> Laney, I hope it's not gtk :p
<Laney> isn't
<Laney> tried downgrading it already
<didrocks> nuxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;)
<Laney> nope
<Laney> unless I am messing up reproducing this :)
<willcooke> bregma_, you sorted?  I can guide you if not
<Laney> got it
<Laney> TREVINHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-appmenu/15.02.0+16.04.20151028.2-0ubuntu1
<Laney> spot the problem
<pitti> Version: 0.5.2~bzr0+15.10.20150627.1-0ubuntu1 isn't enough?
<pitti> (of bamf)
<Laney> fail
<Laney> i bet the new symbols didn't get a high enough version
<Trevinho> seb128: I think it's the last nux change fault...
<Trevinho> Can you check it?
<Laney> you think wrong
<seb128> Laney, did you restart u-p-s in between?
<Trevinho> Laney: no there are two issues
<Trevinho> the visual one is nux problem
<seb128> what "visual"?
<seb128> what I see there is that u-p-s "exit" on clicks
<Laney> I'm going to revert this indicator-appmenu upload
<Laney> Trevinho: can you fix bamf's .symbols file to have a high enough new version and rebuild it please?
<seb128> [Inferior 1 (process 27832) exited with code 0177]
<Laney> I think you can use 0replaceme?
<seb128> Laney, it's appmenu's fault?
<Laney> yes
<Trevinho> Laney: but...... is that because not properly linked or what?
<Laney> the new symbols didn't get a high enough version
<Laney> so you got a depends which was insufficient
<Trevinho> ah
<Laney> so it went in before bamf did...
<seb128> is that because bamf didn't migrate?
<didrocks> yeah, it should have used 0replaceme
<seb128> and bamf is blocked by the big transition?
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> but the depends is wrong anyway
<Trevinho> didrocks: 0replaceme means? /me newbie on symbols files
<Laney> it's a train magic
<didrocks> Trevinho: it's a CI Train trick, it's "replace this string with the version that is going to be released"
<Laney> to put the upstream version number in
<didrocks> (as the train generates its own version number)
<didrocks> so you can't predict future, only the train has the truth here :p
<didrocks> 0 is used at first because you can't have non digits as first version characters in a symbol file
 * didrocks should have put 42 or so, but I was afraid of a bug not changing the version and blocking people for most version ;)
<didrocks> Trevinho: and as you asked for doc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DailyRelease/FAQ#I.27m_exposing_a_new_C.2BAC8-C.2B-.2B-_symbols_in_my_library.2C_it_seems_that_some_packaging_changes_are_needed.2BICY- :)
<Trevinho> ah
<didrocks> or http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity%3A-release-early,-release-often%E2%80%A6-release-daily!-(part-3) :)
<didrocks> waow, I really did write a lot of doc at the daily release time
<Trevinho> And I also read that at the time,... :(
<Trevinho> Sorry I forgot
<jcastro> what's the package name for GNOME Software in xenial? it's tough to search for
<didrocks> Trevinho: no worry ;)
<seb128> jcastro, it's not in the archive
<seb128> it depends on packagekit 1.0 which is blocked on mvo_ to land some click work
<seb128> mvo_, ^ what's the status of that?
<Laney> Trevinho: do you understand what to do?
<Trevinho> Laney: for your pleasure https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/bamf/0.5.2-replaceme0/+merge/276670
<Trevinho> Laney: So, what's next should I do a new silo with this and indicator-appmenu?
<Laney> Trevinho: use the same one
<Trevinho> OK
<Laney> just push a new merge, rebuild bamf, rebuild indicator-appmenu, publish that
<Trevinho> ok
<Trevinho> Laney: can you approve the branch?
<Laney> didrocks: ^ merge looks good to you?
<didrocks> Laney: Trevinho: just top approved! :)
<Trevinho> fair enough
<Trevinho> thaks
<Trevinho> n^
<Laney> I uploaded the revert
<Laney> need that to migrate before we publish another one
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> any time!
<seb128> mterry, do you plan to merge duplicity? (it's showing as outdated compared to upstream/debian on our versions page)
<seb128> Laney, do you want me to look at gst-plugins-base1.0 or is that on your list for this week?
<mterry> seb128, I hadn't looked at merges with my name on them yet.  I can do duplicity
<Laney> still there
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> glib first
<Laney> probably tomorrow
<mdeslaur> seb128: I see you've merged nspr, are you doing nss too?
<mdeslaur> (just curious before I look at it)
<seb128> mdeslaur, no, I had a look and it was less trivial
<sarnold> sorry mdeslaur :)
<seb128> I'm mostly trying to clean red items from http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/ubuntu-desktop.html
<mdeslaur> seb128: np, thanks
<mdeslaur> wow, that's a lot of red :P
<seb128> mdeslaur, can you do curl as well? you seem to unsually do it, robert_ancell did an upload for a small change but I doubt he's looking at the merges page or is going to do it
<seb128> mdeslaur, yeah :-/
<seb128> well look at the bottom chart, it's not that much overall
<mdeslaur> seb128: sure, I'll do it
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, we are improving btw, that was a week ago, http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/Capture%20du%202015-10-27%2013-35-28.png
<mdeslaur> nice
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> oh, didrocks has the plymouth merge under his name ;-)
<didrocks> should be because of the fsck theme
<Laney> the update police are patrolling
<Laney> everybody look busy!
<seb128> lol
 * Sweet5hark looks busy/
<Laney> Trevinho: you needed to wait before building stuff against the new bamf
<Trevinho> Laney: why? Isn't the new bamf already on the ppa?
<Laney> ah wait, you did?
<Trevinho> yes
<Laney> https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-011-1-build/329/console
<Laney> I got confused maybe
<Laney> because of 2015-11-04 17:15:21,997 INFO Including bamf, compiz, indicator-appmenu, nux, unity.
<Laney> but the ppa itself looks right
<Laney> Depends: libbamf3-2 (>= 0.5.2~bzr0+16.04.20151104),
<Trevinho> Laney: it looks fine yes...
<didrocks> looks likeâ¦ today!
<Laney> you rock!
<Laney> I suck!
<didrocks> have a good evening guys!
<Laney> :|
<jcastro> if I had unity8 feedback is that here or #ubuntu-touch?
<willcooke> jcastro, #ubuntu-unity is probably the right place
<jcastro> ack
<Laney> alright, i'm out too
<Laney> laterzZzZz
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<willcooke> gnight all
<qengho> Zzz
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: yo, I'm back
<cyphermox> mdeslaur: do we really need to discuss usb-creator much or is it a JFDI?
<cyphermox> because I could just as well merge your code or whatever if you're already happy with it, and we don't need to be sitting around the same table
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: find someone to accept my merge proposal, and we'll bump the version to 0.3 or something
<cyphermox> I'll take care of all of it
<mdeslaur> have you tried it&
<cyphermox> not yet
<cyphermox> I'll merge and test and all, starting nowish
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: the only thing I would like to see is a fix for the cancel button
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> well I'll hack on this today and tomorrow
<mdeslaur> but that's not critical, can be fixed whenever before release
<mdeslaur> cyphermox: want me to bump the version and add a debian/changelog entry before you merge it?
<cyphermox> nah
<cyphermox> there's more code changes to do along with it
<mdeslaur> oh?
<mdeslaur> ah, right
<Trevinho> Sweet5hark: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3rjbj4/ama_request_for_libreoffice_team/
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-05
<didrocks> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> re seb128
<seb128> re didrocks ;-)
<hikiko-lpt> hello all
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> hi didrocks seb128
<seb128> hey hikiko
<Trevinho> morning
<didrocks> good morning Trevinho!
<Trevinho> heyd didrocks
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, still holding to the waking up early it seems :-)
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah... Up since almost 2 hrs -_-
<Trevinho> And it's not a good thing
<seb128> :-(
<TheMuso> Hey willcooke.
<willcooke> g'monin
<didrocks> morning TheMuso, willcooke!
<seb128> hey TheMuso willcooke
<Laney> hi
<Laney> radio show about p vs np on the radio now
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_fourfm ;-)
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> how's france today?
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> i read that USC will likely be retired for X in favor of gnome-software
<ochosi> is this decided already or only a plan?
<Laney> both
<seb128> hey Laney ochosi
<ochosi> (would like to evaluate it for xubuntu, but no PPA with it or anything)
<seb128> ochosi, isn't a plan something that is decided?
<ochosi> k
<Laney> yes because there is a lot of work
<ochosi> heh, right
<larsu> good morning!
<Laney> try unstable
<Laney> hey seb128 and larsu!
 * larsu spent the morning offline :)
<Laney> (or fedora I guess)
<seb128> hey larsu
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> was it awful?
<willcooke> g'night TheMuso
<ochosi> oh ok, i'll look in debian then
<seb128> larsu, what are you hacking on?
<larsu> Laney: hi! Happy Thursday
<larsu> hi seb128! Ã§a va?
<Laney> hacking on plumbing in the sink
<Laney> ;-)
<seb128> larsu, oui, et toi?
<larsu> seb128: started on geonames localization
<larsu> seb128: anything more pressing?
<Laney> "let's say you have a group of N people"
<larsu> seb128: I'm great thanks!
<larsu> Laney: sink is done since last week ;)
<Laney> nice!
<seb128> larsu, no, that's a good one
<willcooke> #1480217
<Laney> HAHA
<Laney> "just leaving that here"
<willcooke> Err.  maybe bug: 1480217:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1480217
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1480217 in nautilus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Nautilus background handling screwed when changing scaling factor." [High,In progress]
<willcooke> there we go
<seb128> willcooke, that's fix commited
<didrocks> Laney: cloudy
<seb128> and uploaded
<larsu> willcooke: I fixed that last week
<larsu> (or this week?)
<larsu> (some week)
<willcooke> Cool!  I am confused about why there is a "Needs Fixing" review
<Laney> it says it is merged
<seb128> where?
<larsu> are you looking at a different bug? "Merged" for me
<seb128> oh
<seb128> it was need fixing from me because we found some other issue
<seb128> but it fixed
<willcooke> Ah, I see the dates.  Laney's OK is after seb128's  Needs Fixing
<seb128> and laney took over reviewing
<seb128> so I didn't update mine
 * Laney thinks this doesn't need 4 minds
<Laney> see you!
<willcooke> the status is still "In Progress"
<seb128> Laney, have fun
<seb128> willcooke, fixed that
<seb128> set to fix commited
<willcooke> Thanks seb128
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> and thanks larsu for fixing it
<seb128> larsu, do you know if "gtk_window_set_titlebar (GTK_WINDOW (window), NULL);" should be enough to make the GtkHeaderBar in gedit not be a titlebar?
<larsu> btw, I'll probably drop by the systemd conference later today
<seb128> (that's what the osx backend does)
<larsu> but I should be online
<seb128> k
<seb128> you got an invitation?
<larsu> seb128: that will remove the headerbar completely
<seb128> or paid $crazy_price for a ticket?
<larsu> you need to pack it into the main area of the widget if you want to have it shown
<seb128> larsu, what is gedit looking like on osX then?
<larsu> seb128: invitation
<seb128> cool
<larsu> seb128: only titlebar (this is what that line would do)
<seb128> k
<seb128> with no menu
<seb128> weird
<larsu> oh?
<larsu> this is wrong
<seb128> well gedit upstream doesn't have a menubar
<larsu> I would look into this, but I can't install gedit on X
<seb128> btw your patch is accept commit I think
<seb128> why not?
<larsu>  gedit : Depends: gedit-common (< 3.11) but 3.16.3-0ubuntu3 is to be installed
<seb128> ah
<seb128> you have a local install
<seb128> you can sudo apt-get install gedit/xenial gedit-common/xenial
<larsu> I do?!
<seb128> well, 3.16.3-0ubuntu3
<seb128> that's likely your local update build
<seb128> we are on 3.10
<larsu> ah you're right! Thanks :)
<seb128> yw
<larsu> ok now your problem :)
<seb128> I still didn't make up my mind on decorations or not
<seb128> well my problem is with the 3.18 update I'm working on
<seb128> it works fine but I wanted to try with normal decorations
<larsu> and then you get no menubar?
<larsu> or is that unrelated?
<seb128> unrelated
<seb128> things work well
<seb128> I'm just trying to find the easiest way to turn off the gtkheaderbar as decoration
<seb128> to see how things look with decoration + headerbar
<larsu> yes that line should do it
<larsu> if you want the headerbar as toolbar, you also need to pack the headrbar into the main area of the window (maybe wrapped in a vbox)
<seb128> right, thanks
<larsu> let me know if you need help
<seb128> should be fine, but thanks
<seb128> I'm pondering just uploading with the headerbar to get feedback
<seb128> it's looking/working mostly fine
<seb128> the other thing I'm unsure about is whether we should hide the gear menu under unity
<seb128> would it make sense to have both? like keep the upstream UI but add the menubar as well for desktop consistency/those who use it?
<larsu> seb128: the idea we had last time we talked about is that we show the gear menu when LIM is enabled
<larsu> which requires a downstream patch, of course
<seb128> what's the point of hiding it in normal use?
<larsu> good question
<larsu> I guess we could leave it
<seb128> I'm just wondering
<seb128> it would make the application looks like design and have the modern UI for those who like that
<seb128> but still provide the menubar for consistency/users that like those better
<larsu> indeed. I think I'm in favor (at least for trying it out and getting feedback)
<Laney> we like headerbars now?
<larsu> Laney: yes?!
<larsu> did we decide against them at the sprint?
<larsu> so much back and forth, I can't even remember
<seb128> same here, I sort of lost track
<seb128> I just want that gedit update out
<Laney> There was some command at the previous sprint to not change anything
<larsu> willcooke: ^
<Laney> but maybe I was wrong
<Laney> I thought we were going to make gedit use the osx UI for us
<Laney> trad titlebar + menubar + no toolbar
<larsu> I thought we changed our mind at the sprint
<larsu> why else would we have the whole rgba window discussion?
<Laney> hahahAHAHAH
<Laney> this is awesome
<larsu> no, *you* are awesome
<seb128> lol
<Laney> â¥
<seb128> screw LIM users :p
<willcooke> I think we agreed that LIM would suffer, but HUD and Global menu would still work right?
<willcooke> But that we are going to put a demo together to show design so that they can check it
 * larsu nods
<larsu> thanks will
<Laney> so stop the patches?
<willcooke> what do the patches do?
<seb128> Laney, maybe not before having the demo and the result officially acked
<larsu> having it in xenial is fine, isn't it? We can always revert
<willcooke> +1 to seb128 and larsu
<seb128> k, let's get gedit in like that
<seb128> it's going to be a good demo case
<willcooke> perfect
<seb128> though we need the unity fix for the corner rendering issue to be resolved
<seb128> but that's minor
<didrocks> corner rendering issuesâ¦ and my eyes! :)
<seb128> haha
<seb128> sharp corners in your eyes hurt?!
<seb128> :-)
<larsu> Trevinho is "on it"
<Trevinho> larsu: actually I'm leaving he ball to hikiko-lpt as she got a proof of concept using proper shadows that is maybe better than what we decided... So, I'm waiting for that.
<seb128> larsu, btw any idea if it would be easy to do the gtk hack that somebody suggested on that upstream blog, dropping the headerbar decorations when maximized
<didrocks> seb128: I wear glasses!!!!
<didrocks> security ones :p
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> oh, that reminds me...
 * willcooke makes an opticians appointment 
<didrocks> willcooke: see you in a year or 2!
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> Trevinho, will that fix be for 15.10 as well?
<seb128> when he says "see you" he really means it
<seb128> blurry vision meanwhile for you!
<willcooke> ha
<Trevinho> willcooke: *maybe* but not sure
<willcooke> So I think we need to fix the square edges in 15.10 as well really
<willcooke> but if that's a tonne of work, then I can be easily convinced that we don't need to
<seb128> willcooke, which ones you mean?
<seb128> the tooltip issue is being addressed
<seb128> the one we are talking about is only impacting some applications
<willcooke> ahhhhh
<willcooke> right, I understand now
<didrocks> and millions of didrocks are happy :)
<willcooke> thx
<seb128> you can see one example if you have a bluetooth device configured and try to send files to it from the indicator
<seb128> the dialog is using headerbar and have solid corners
<larsu> Trevinho: yes, should be a small patch in gtk for all applications that don't add those buttons manually (and I think none do, it's a feature of gtkheaderbar)
<seb128> willcooke, oh, easier test case, the font viewer
<willcooke> seb128, do I need X to see it?
<seb128> no
<Trevinho> larsu: not sure I got what you mean
<larsu> Trevinho: I meant to ping seb128, sorry
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<larsu> seb128: now or wait until we have the ok?
<seb128> larsu, for the "hide the decoration when maximized"?
<Laney> some theming needed too, or something
<Trevinho> larsu: ah, that was something that some gnome guy was saying in a blogpost...
<Laney> font viewer looks weird when maximised
<larsu> seb128: yes
<Trevinho> Laney: hey... not sure whether the silo 11 has been fully published, but it should be fine now
<Laney> hi Trevinho
<Laney> I had some weird highlights last night
<larsu> Laney: because of round corners? Ya, I think we should square them when maximized (and I thought we already did...)
<seb128> larsu, I think we should do it in any case, we have csd applications in universe, we can't patch the world, that would make them look better
<Trevinho> yeah, you know... hallucinations...
<Trevinho> :D
<Laney> larsu: no, not the corners
<Laney> the gradient
<larsu> same problem now when moving a window to the top
<seb128> gedit 3.18.1 uploaded, enjoy good desktop people ;-)
<larsu> or maximizing it on half the screen
<larsu> I agree it's ugly, but it's the design and we've specifically been asked not to change it
<seb128> larsu, thanks for the work you did previous cycle on that update, it made the remaining bits easy
<larsu> seb128: \o/ thanks
<Laney> I don't think that request extends to this
<larsu> and then should we change the half-maximized ones as well?
<Laney> sounds like a perfect enemy of good argument
<larsu> hm?
<Laney> can't/won't fix all the cases so shouldn't fix this one?
<Laney> or: already have bad cases - adding another bad one is therefore alright
<larsu> didn't mean that, sorry. honestly asking
<Laney> righto
<Laney> don't know how you can theme that, but if possible then I guess so
<Laney> and I don't know if it would look more weird to have the headerbar change theme when you maximise it
 * larsu makes a note to try this out soon
<Laney> I mean, I know you can theme maximised stuff differently
<Laney> but a titlebar which just happens to touch the panel...
<larsu> probably not :/
<larsu> seb128: is the gsettings-qt fix scheduled for landing? https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/gsettings-qt/lp1503693/+merge/276190
<seb128> larsu, yeah, I put in a silo yesterday, it's waiting for qa testing
<larsu> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> sorry it took some time
<larsu> meh, it was waiting for a review until yesterday
<larsu> and I pushed a last fix even
<Sweet5hark1> *grumble* no popey *grumble*
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, I'd guess he's shifted his hours for UOS
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, probably be on soon
<didrocks> such a shifter! :)
 * Sweet5hark1 is just being an annoying child that cant wait.
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: thanks, actually its not too urgent ;)
 * Laney runs dep11-generator process . xenial
<willcooke> Sweet5hark1, et voilÃ  ^^
<Sweet5hark1> willcooke: shhh, you will shy him away!
<Sweet5hark1> popey: heya!
 * willcooke lays down a trail of kebabs and lager
<popey> ooh!
<willcooke> box, stick, piece of string....
<willcooke> *yank*
<willcooke> GOT HIM!
<Sweet5hark1> hrhr
<popey> nom nom nom
<Sweet5hark1> popey: libreoffice-vanilla 5.0.3 update finished compiling on https://launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/+archive/ubuntu/libreoffice-3-4 finally.
<popey> excellent!
<popey> thanks Sweet5hark1
<Sweet5hark1> popey: the splitting of -dbgsym with the ppa setting seems to have worked -- and more importantly: it doesnt seem to increase the size of the non-dbg package in a relevant way.
<Sweet5hark1> popey: no arm build on that yet, though. So I guess the thing to do now is a/ check the build/publish dbgsym package checkboxes on the canonical-community ppa b/ copy over the package (without copying binaries, so that they will be re-build, including armhf)
<popey> where are those switches?
<Trevinho> willcooke: so for the python3 thing in unity, who can I talk to?
<seb128> larsu, I have https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/notify-osd/spam-a-bit-less/+merge/274382 in a silo and just tested it, with it the sound icons are wrong when mouse whell scrolling over the indicator
<Trevinho> Because this is the situation: unity launch script depends on python2, fixing it is trivial and I've done it. So we can ensure that the dependency of the unity package is on python3.
<Trevinho> However, unity also builds unity-autopilot that is in universe and should depend on python2.7 (as ap-legacy is not python3-friendly)
<Sweet5hark1> popey: go to ppa -> "Change details" -> check "Build debug symbols" and "Publish debug symbols"
<seb128> Trevinho, there is a patch on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1512909
<larsu> seb128: indeed.... I wonder how that change can influece the icon :/
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1512909 in unity (Ubuntu) "Port unity to Python 3" [High,In progress]
<popey> Sweet5hark1, okay, thanks
<Trevinho> ah
<seb128> Trevinho, having universe binaries using python2 is fine
<Trevinho> Ok, I was wondering that this was enough ${python3:Depends},, but i wanted to ask
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, sure
<popey> Sweet5hark1, you have those both checked?
<Trevinho> I just wanted to make sure that ${python:Depends} was correclty replaced on "unity" package
<Sweet5hark1> popey: yes.
<Trevinho> Sweet5hark1: did you see the reddit AMA req? :)
<popey> thanks.
<Sweet5hark1> Trevinho: huh?
<Trevinho> Sweet5hark1: sent a link last night
<Trevinho> Sweet5hark1: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3rjbj4/ama_request_for_libreoffice_team/
<seb128> wooot, new glib
<Sweet5hark1> popey: btw, I also had a look at the libreofficekit stuff and changes for the upcoming LibreOffice 5.1 release ... lots of good news there, it seems it would to be easy to add some basic editing capabilities with that (e.g. for correcting a sentence in a press release or a presentation slide, or some basic formatting foo) ...
<Sweet5hark1> Trevinho: ohhh, me clicks link.
<popey> Blimey.
<seb128> is guest session working for others on xenial?
<Laney> looks like there's a pygobject -> libpeas -> gedit problem
 * Sweet5hark1 makes a note to do the sproket dance at FOSDEM (LinuxTag is dead, Jim, isnt it?)
<seb128> Laney, you mean libpeas not built on !i386/amd64?
<Laney> ye
<Laney> trying a test build
<seb128> I bet the pygobject build issue is a gtk < 3.18 one
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=7a3bb6971f22accd25e987496d377e1879f6e1ba
<Laney> why does it work on those arches then?
<seb128> pygobject ftbfs everywhere
<Laney> no need to dupe my work anyway
<seb128> well, I had looked at pygobject on monday
<seb128> so I'm just commenting about what I found out then
<Laney> ok
<seb128> not duplicating anything now
<seb128> good luck figuring it out ;-)
 * didrocks goes for the second run of the week! see you later dudes
<popey> Sweet5hark1, okay, i have set the community team ppa like that, shall I copy it over now, for a test build?
<Sweet5hark1> popey: yes, please.
<popey> okay
<seb128> didrocks, enjoy!
<desrt> hello humans
<seb128> hey desrt
<seb128> andyrock, Trevinho, hum, got compiz eating 100% cpu again with one thread in libpam code again ... did anything change in that area recently? it's twice this week (using xenial)
<desrt> good morning seb
<Trevinho> seb128: nope
<Trevinho> not at our level
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> nobody else reported that yet?
<seb128> pam didn't change either :-/
<andyrock> seb128: nope
<andyrock> seb128: no change at all for two years
<andyrock> seb128: on wily o xenial?
<seb128> xenial
<andyrock> new gcc stdlib?
<andyrock> we use c++11 multi thread sync features
<andyrock> maybe something changed at that level?
<seb128> could be...
<seb128> well so far it's only me
<seb128> so let's see
<Laney> this bug is weird
<Laney> the same test fails
<Laney> if you build wily's pygobject on xenial
 * Laney invokes the pitti 
<didrocks> let the man sleep a little bit longer today :p
<Laney> I called the hotel to wake him up
<seb128> driiiing
<willcooke> fonts!
<didrocks> Laney: if that doesn't work, I guess step 2 in a normal slow-raising alarm-clock type is to call the swat team
<didrocks> step 3 is an international arrest request
<Laney> you've done this before I see
<didrocks> and what assure you won't be next? ;)
<seb128> willcooke, throwing random keywords at the channel? ;-)
<willcooke> it's a primer to me msg'ing laney
<willcooke> ;)
<didrocks> willcooke: for Martin, it's more "ffm" as a keyword
<didrocks> (even if he gave up now that it works in unity7)
<Laney> a-ha
<Laney> downgrading g-i fixes it
<qengho> good morning.
<seb128> hey qengho
<Trevinho> do you guys also have the bug where if you just click over an indicator it doesn't get prelighted?
<Trevinho> seb128: ^  ?
<seb128> Trevinho, yes
<seb128> still doesn't if I move down
<seb128> but it does if I move back up to the panel
<Trevinho> yeah... Wondering since when there's that issue
<pitti> Bonjour mes amis !
<pitti> didrocks, Laney: I actually did wake up at 5:30 (like clockwork), but I didn't go on IRC this morning
<pitti> wanted to have some quiet time to draft https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration/TestClassesSpec
<pitti> what's up?
<didrocks> bonjour pitti !
<pitti> didrocks: Ã§a didrocks, comment vas-tu ?
<pitti> err, s/Ã§a/salut/
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien mieux, presque plus malade :) et toi ?
<Laney> hey pitti
<pitti> didrocks: je suis un peu fatigue, c'est dÃ©jÃ  jeudi  :)
<seb128> hey pitti
<pitti> didrocks: "presque plus malade" -> "nearly more sick"?
<pitti> salut seb128 ! *accolade*
<seb128> *accolade* ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: "nearly *not* sick"
<pitti> didrocks: oh, "presque plus" -> "almost not"?
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<didrocks> plus (you pronounce the "s") is "more"
<didrocks> plus with a silent "s", is "no more"
<didrocks> here, it was obviously a silent s :p
<pitti> merci pour la petite leÃ§on :)
<didrocks> because, writing makes it easier ;)
<didrocks> pitti: de rien ;)
<pitti> didrocks: ma professeur dit "plus" sans un "s" pour le cas "positif" aussi
<didrocks> pitti: ah, ce n'est pas vraiment valide, je ne trouve pas de cas oÃ¹ Ã§a marche. seb128 ? ^
<seb128> pitti, it's rather "almost not anymore" (e.g have a sense of things that used to be true and is less)
<didrocks> I don't see any case where it's positive and you don't pronounce the s
<pitti> didrocks: elle est de Paris, peut-Ãªtre un accent diffÃ©rent ?
<didrocks> not really on thisâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, hum?
<pitti> je vais elle demander Ã  Ã§a
<seb128> didrocks, "tu es plus grand que moi"
<didrocks> seb128: 15:35:09       pitti | didrocks: ma professeur dit "plus" sans un "s" pour le cas "positif" aussi
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> yeah, so there is a case :)
<seb128> I would say whenever plus is followed by something
<didrocks> seb128: do you know the rule for pronouncing it ? because "j'en ai plus que toi", you willâ¦
<seb128> no :-(
<didrocks> yeah, no :p
<didrocks> plus + quantifier maybe?
<didrocks> and in that case, it's positive, but you don't pronounce
<Laney> poisson
<didrocks> plus + adjectif
 * Laney joins in
<seb128> it's too difficult
<pitti> Ã©videmment cette langue est trop difficile :)
<pitti> Laney: la viande !
<didrocks> seb128: plus + adjectif isn't the only case to not pronounce the s and it's still positive
<didrocks> "plus j'y pense, plus je trouve cela difficile"
<didrocks> yeah, so there might be a rule about pronouncing the s, but we don't know ;)
<seb128> http://www.etudes-litteraires.com/forum/topic26250-prononciation-de-plus.html
<seb128> we are not the only ones to discuss the topic :p
<pitti> that would be surprising indeed
<seb128> post 2 has details
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but post 2 doesn't cover all the case "j'en ai plus que toi"
<didrocks> no an end of sentence
<didrocks> and no way it may be mislead with the negative sense
<didrocks> (and not an addition)
<didrocks> waow, never thought about that one, clearly complexâ¦
<Laney> pitti: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748832#c8 <- this was what I was pinging you about
<ubot5> Gnome bug 748832 in libgirepository "Remove special GdkRectangle case when scanning/reading girepository data" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> Not sure if you know g-i itself though, so don't worry about it :)
 * Laney goes for some lunch
<larsu> pitti: we miss you here :)
 * pitti likes the "don't worry" while being too distracted on the sprint :)
<didrocks> yeah, let's talk about real work!
<didrocks> like this "s" rules :)
<pitti> larsu: me too! please say hello to Michael, Lennart, Kay, and Harald
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<pitti> larsu: and please prod Tom to fix the networkd regression :)
<pitti> Laney: more seriously, are you actually at the conf?
<xclaesse> in ubuntu 15.10 I often have the gtkfilechoose that freeze the whole app (gedit in my case) when I have sftp:// locations mounted in gvfs
<larsu> pitti: will do!
<larsu> I guess he'll know which regression I'm talking aobut
<pitti> larsu: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/1645
<seb128> xclaesse, likely some sync call in gtkfileselector? having a bt when that's happening would be useful
<pitti> larsu: I was mostly kidding, this isn't really good conference matter
<pitti> larsu: shaking hands and listening to what's new is!
 * larsu shakes hands
<xclaesse> seb128, running it in gdb now, let's see if I can reproduce
<xclaesse> seb128, actually I have /var/crash/_usr_bin_gedit.1000.uploaded
<xclaesse> probably that already
<xclaesse> dunno where I can find it
<seb128> probably not
<seb128> a segfault would close the app, not block the UI
<seb128> does in unfroze and keep working?
<seb128> or does it crash?
<seb128> larsu, Laney, do we consider that to be ok or buggy? http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gedit.png
<seb128> larsu, unsure what was the logic dialog, was it to use linked button when csd is on?
<larsu> seb128: yes
<seb128> larsu, yes to "be ok"?
<seb128> it looks weird to me, at least the border around the button being cut
<larsu> seb128: yes to "do we consider this buggy"
<seb128> oh, ok ;-)
<larsu> it's ugly in our theme
<seb128> do we want to fix the theme?
<larsu> and we have a gtk patch for the built-in dialogs
<seb128> or what is the right way to handle those?
<larsu> but many apps pack those buttons themselves
<larsu> so we'd need to fix this in apps
 * larsu makes a note to fix this
<larsu> seb128: btw, this isn't a problem in the 3.10 version
<seb128> of gedit?
<seb128> right, but we updated to 3.18 now :p
<larsu> I didn't get it when I updated this morning
<seb128> btw they sort of gave a pre +1 to your menubar patch
<seb128> right
<larsu> and don't want to use all of the conf wifi now :)
<seb128> it's blocked in xenial-proposed due to libpeas and pygobject issues
<seb128> Laney was looking at it
<seb128> and I think he needed pitti
<seb128> larsu, yeah, no hurry
<larsu> :)
 * larsu is doing some talking and shaking hands anyway - pitti told me to ;)
 * pitti pats larsu -- "braver Hund!"
<pitti> larsu: *hug*
<larsu> haha
<larsu> pitti: hug back!
<seb128> tjaalton, I don't understand your comment on bug #1480217, you say that the nautilus fixes creates intel driver issues?
<ubot5> bug 1480217 in nautilus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Nautilus background handling screwed when changing scaling factor." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1480217
<tjaalton> seb128: the crasher was triggered by nautilus which wasn't patched for this bug, but there's still some corruption left
<seb128> tjaalton, how is that relevant to the scaling issue?
<tjaalton> the crasher itself is a bug in intel x driver, fixed in wily and up
<seb128> your comment makes it sounds like there is a problem with the nautilus change
<seb128> that's not the case right?
<tjaalton> seb128: no
<tjaalton> "this update doesn't trigger it anymore" sounds to me that it fixed it
<tjaalton> just wanted to say that the corruption is not fully fixed
<tjaalton> added a comment
<Laney> tjaalton: feel free to upload that SRU now that you've built and tested it ;-)
<seb128> tjaalton, right, that bug/change was neither about the segfault nor the corruption though, so mentioning corruption in the middle is a bit confusing
 * Laney only did T so far
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks fo rthe update!
 * Trevinho has done something wrong.... Just accepted to go to IKEA.... Please kill me.
<Trevinho> him*
<tjaalton> seb128: huh, it was all about the corruption
<Trevinho> bye
<tjaalton> Laney: oh yeah, guess i might push it for vivid too since that's what i use for testing, not lts-vivid on trusty which would mean more work
<Laney> tjaalton: hm?
<Laney> this is nautilus no?
<tjaalton> yes
<Laney> orthogonal to lts-* then
<willcooke> mdeslaur, you might be interested in this:  https://plus.google.com/111583136332687352922/posts/d3NqxYfVXBu
<tjaalton> sure, just saying it would help me when doing crap on vivid
<Laney> ok
<tjaalton> and not hit this issue which would be fixed in trusty
<Laney> are you planning on testing wily too? :)
<Laney> (does lts-wily exist yet?)
<Laney> (or ever?)
<tjaalton> i might
<tjaalton> doesn't exist yet
<Laney> nod
<Laney> well, I have backporting this there on my list
<Laney> so lemme know if you do it so that I can cross it off
<mdeslaur> willcooke: I just volunteered to unbork the current one, not become a new maintainer :P
<willcooke> ;)
<willcooke> same thing
<mdeslaur> willcooke: thanks
<mdeslaur> ha!
<Laney> this is going to end up being your life's work now you've said that
<Laney> usb-creator: the project which outlives Ubuntu, Linux and all other Free Software
<tjaalton> Laney: right, i might do wily too
<Laney> ok, just let me know
<willcooke> usb-creator consumes systemd
<tjaalton> yep
<mdeslaur> lol
<Laney> let's start with a track at the next UOS
<mhall119> willcooke: was there a decision made to drop brasero and empathy from the default desktop install?
<willcooke> mhall119, pretty much yes
<willcooke> mhall119, both are unmaintained upstream and not used very much
<didrocks> maybe, we should send an email to the ubuntu-desktop ML about it
<didrocks> I guess UOS isn't enough
 * mhall119 is working on the convergence track summaries
<willcooke> sure, we can do that
<didrocks> mhall119: don't forget the addition of gnome-calendar
<mhall119> didrocks: which is being added, yes?
<didrocks> yep
<mhall119> thanks
<Sweet5hark1> its been done.
<Laney> I will mail the list when I do it, of course
<Sweet5hark1> despite enormous incompetence of some players that bordered on sabotage, USN-2793-1 is out (fixing 4 cves on 3 releases).
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> silly specially crafted files
<Sweet5hark1> Laney: they should be outlawed.
<didrocks> have a good night everyone, see you tomorrow! :)
<Sweet5hark1> Laney: I hear the political climate for such actions is welcoming in the UK right now, given you just outlawed evil encryption. Wanna start?
<didrocks> (I'll probably run early, so unsure I'll be connected when you arrive if I'm not lazy)
<Sweet5hark1> didrocks: have a nice evening!
<didrocks> thanks Sweet5hark1 ;)
<willcooke> mhall119, I've drafted a quick email, just want seb128 to sanity check it and then I'll send it
 * Laney blinks
<mhall119> willcooke: email to me?
<Laney> Do you want to see the current pending diff?
<Laney> I was planning on sending such a mail when doing the actual changes
<Laney> mhall119: You could just mention those three changes as probable and say to watch out on ubuntu-desktop for when it's done
<Laney> probably next week
 * Laney has to go now, see you
<willcooke> mhall119, desktop mailinbg list
<willcooke> gnight all
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-11-06
<hikiko-lpt> hello
<didrocks> hey hikiko
<hikiko> hi didrocks
<Trevinho> Morning folks
<didrocks> hey Trevinhooooooooooooooooooooo ;)
<Trevinho> Hey didrooooooooocks!
<Trevinho> ð
<Trevinho> Pouch I've to bring my scooter to the repair shop :-(
<didrocks> what happened?
<Trevinho> Ouch*
<didrocks> (you are a real italien, with a scooter and such)
<Trevinho> It doesn't turn on anymore... Someone stolen my battery
<didrocks> I just miss some accent here and I'll cook some pasta right away ;)
<didrocks> argh :/
<didrocks> is it in a garage?
<Trevinho> Plus I've to so the government revision, that it's mandatory every 2 years
<darkxst> hey didrocks Trevinho
<Trevinho> Nope.... In a closed parking, but there's open walking access
<Trevinho> And... Yes living in Florence without a scooter is not feasible
<darkxst> why would someone steal a battery !
<didrocks> evening darkxst
<Trevinho> darkxst: because people is retarded?
<darkxst> Trevinho, I reckon, they could have just stolen the whole scooter
<darkxst> not that would have helped you any!
<Trevinho> darkxst: no, here there's this thing that if you needs a repair component, you just go in the street and steal from others...
<Trevinho> Not that everybody does this, but there are people who thinks in that way... Thus I said retarded.
<darkxst> Trevinho, the retards here wouldnt know how to the get the part, so they take the lot!
<darkxst> didrocks, this is going to be un-evening, merging gdm3 ;(
<Trevinho> darkxst: well I didn't want to offend the real retards..
<larsu> good morning!
<didrocks> darkxst: urgh, another unfun merge
<didrocks> morning larsu!
<didrocks> darkxst: why do you do that on Friday evening? :p
<larsu> morning didrocks! How are you?
<didrocks> sounds similar to my rule of "touching perl on Friday evening" ;)
<didrocks> larsu: good thanks! yourself?
<larsu> didrocks: my rule is "touching perl"
<larsu> didrocks: great thanks! Conference was quite fun
 * larsu will go this afternoon as well
<didrocks> larsu: happy that you were able to go there :)
<larsu> but get some work done in the morning
<larsu> didrocks: I got a badge and everything!
<darkxst> didrocks, I'm injured can't do much else
<didrocks> larsu: a VIP one? :)
<didrocks> darkxst: oh, what happened?
<larsu> didrocks: daniel put some gold tape on it and kay some stickers of a cat ... so ... yes?!
<didrocks> ;)
<darkxst> didrocks, pulled/strained calf muscle, not too sure really, but cant really walk much
<larsu> ouch
<didrocks> darkxst: yeah, so forced restâ¦
<darkxst> well I probably should have done that rest bit a couple of days ago
<willcooke> morning all
<didrocks> hey willcooke!
<larsu> good morning willcooke!
<Laney> HEY!
<willcooke> hey Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> happy friday
<Laney> how's it going?
<willcooke> \o/
<didrocks> morning Laney
<larsu> happy Friday Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks and larsu!
<Laney> feeling good?
<larsu> yep - smvc agreed to my fix for that bug :) (with small amend)
<larsu> meeting in person is awesome
<Laney> nice
<Laney> oh he's there?
<larsu> yes
<Laney> handy
<Laney> did you go on das boot yet?
<larsu> no that's tonight
<larsu> don't know if I'll go yet
<larsu> would be weird - I'm not there officially and all
<Laney> you are an official systemd contributor!
<didrocks> Laney: good! it's Friday! :)
<larsu> 1 commit and 1 comment on a pull request ought to be enough to be called that!
<Laney> didrocks: I always check the calendar before saying that
<Laney> it would be terrible to be wrong in that way
<didrocks> ;)
<Trevinho> damn, that scooter was fricking heavy...
<Laney> did you have to push it all the way to the place?
<Trevinho> yes -_-
<Trevinho> I've not a truck... Wasn't too long, but still about 700mt
<Trevinho> with hills
<Laney> think of it as the start of your workout routine
<Trevinho> yeah, might good
<Trevinho> also, since I was there, i decided to try a coworking place today
<Laney> you'll be a huge guy before long
<Laney> then nobody will dare to touch your battery again
<Trevinho> working in Florence city center is awesome... Unfortunately this palce is not that busy, but still better than being at home in these days
<Laney> so should I upload gtk 3.18? :)
<Laney> it would work around this g-i bug and let some things build
<Trevinho> Laney: what do you want to break this time? :D
<Laney> mainly file choosers :P
<Trevinho> Laney: ok... Just hope there are not too many deprecations breaking unity related stuff :P
<Laney> try a test build?
<Laney> ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa
 * Trevinho lazy :P
<Laney> you people
 * Laney does a copy then
<Laney> does it even build in PPAs?
<Trevinho> No, I'm doing to try that....
<Trevinho> ah, well, if you grab the same unity source that was in silo11 it will work
 * Laney has problems with the testsuite when building locally
<Trevinho> let me know, if I should fire my compiler or you leave the ppa builders to do that
<Laney> might as well use those
<Laney> it's built there already
<Trevinho> Laney: there are some "unstable" tests, but they're disabled when in release mdoe
<Trevinho> mode
<Laney> [Build #8270924] i386 build of gtk+3.0 3.18.2-1ubuntu1~ppa1 in ubuntu xenial RELEASE [~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/ppa]
<Laney> yes, because these mails are always really welcome
<Laney> OH
<Laney> ATTENTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeEEeeeeEEeeeEEEeeEEEeeeEEeeeEEeeeEEeeee
<Laney> haha
<Laney> control vs. control.in
 * Laney head -> desk
<didrocks> ahah ;)
<didrocks> typical trap!
<Laney> I was like "I'm sure that was in the merge"
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/refresh-mir-3/+merge/276420
<Laney> "DOH"
<Laney> Trevinho: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/225350066/buildlog_ubuntu-xenial-amd64.unity_7.4.0+16.04.20151102-0ubuntu1~test1_BUILDING.txt.gz <- test failure
<Laney> normal or new?
<Trevinho> Laney: those thumbnailer tests have always been flaky...
<Trevinho> if you retry probably will go
<Trevinho> or maybe in the other archs
<Laney> i386 did work
<Laney> retrying then
<Trevinho> so... yeah, it's unstable
<Trevinho> it didn't fail since long time, though
<Laney> Package 'nettle', required by 'mircookie', not found
<Laney> WWWWWWWHYYYYYY
<larsu> mircookie?
<Laney> sounds tasty right?
<larsu> indeed
<Laney> this is weird
<larsu> what's happening?
<Laney> not much, just found a merge proposal which sounds like it was fixing this
<Laney> but actually does something different
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/mir/libmircookie-dev-needs-nettle/+merge/276688
<hikiko__> https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/unity/unity.fixed-tests-wwarnings/+merge/275801 Trevinho do you have access to trigger a rebuild for that?
<hikiko__> +could you review it?
<Trevinho> sure
<hikiko__> it's just 2 lines but I hate these warnings :D
<hikiko__> thank you!!
<Trevinho> hikiko__: you also have just use the canonical sesame VPN, and you can do that
<hikiko__> mmm do I have access by default?
<Trevinho> hikiko__: however it will fail till we don't have newest unity on trunk... Which should slowly arrive
<Trevinho> Train I love how you manage downstream, but really not that much for upstream stuff :P
<Trevinho> didrocks: you're awesome anyway :P
<hikiko__> hahaha
<hikiko__> should we blame didrocks ? :pp (just kidding)
<hikiko__> so, what can we do in this case? wait for the new unity to merge it?
<didrocks> what? :)
<didrocks> pfff :p
<didrocks> forcing you to be a good ubuntu member and care about your distro ;)
 * hikiko just remembered she is not an ubuntu member :| (I got rejected :p)
<Trevinho> didrocks: eheheh, i really do care... In fact as I told you I love the way it's handled... I just don't love to wait too many days to get the trunk updated, but well.. I can deal with it
<didrocks> Trevinho: yeah, it's part of the contract (and the way to force people to care, because too much stuff were thrown above the wall, unfortunately)
<Trevinho> didrocks: I know... Automerger was too fun not to abuse of it :D
<didrocks> Trevinho: heh, I created the daily release/automerger as a first step because we were a team to handle upstream integration
<didrocks> (and so, fixing things daily was way easier than throwing 20 branches on the release day that would conflict)
<attente> ah geez
<Laney> hi attente!
<attente> lol, hi Laney
<Trevinho> Mh, is there a way to get the prefix of where upstart is installed so to get the /usr/share/upstart/session path dynamically?
<Trevinho> tedg: maybe you know that ^
<seb128> hey again desktopers ;-)
<willcooke> hey seb128
<seb128> hey willcooke!
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> good drive?
<seb128> Laney, yes, thanks ;-)
<seb128> back from lunch now
<seb128> Laney, how are things? good friday morning here?
<Laney> seb128: yep, just testing gst
<Laney> seems to be an x264/x265 transition going on ._.
<seb128> transitions fun...
<Laney> love the start of the cycle!
<qengho> (adjective) morning
<seb128> hey qengho
<qengho> seb128: have any weekend plans?
<seb128> not really yet, mostly relaxing and spending some time with familly and friends
<seb128> what about you?
<qengho> seb128: Nothing concrete yet. There are two food festivals in town. Epcot Food and Wine, and a Greek Festival. Both call me like the Sirens.
<seb128> hehe
<jono> hey seb128
<jono> are you involved with the Unity 8 LXD container?
<seb128> hey jono, how are you? didn't see you arounf for a while :-)
<jono> seb128, all good thanks!
<seb128> jono, not at all, try bregma or ChrisTownsend
<seb128> or maybe tedg
<jono> excited to join GitHub in a few weeks :-)
<jono> ahhh cool, thanks, seb128
<seb128> I saw, congrats ;-)
<seb128> yw!
<jono> :-)
<willcooke> jono !!!
<jono> how are you doing?
<willcooke> alright dude
<jono> hey willcooke :-)
<seb128> aren't you supposed to be on holidays in India or something?
<jono> hows it going, pal?
<willcooke> jono, no bad!
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Hey, I work on the Unity 8 LXC container.
<jono> seb128, at a conference, so not really a holiday :-)
<jono> ChrisTownsend, aha!
<seb128> oh, ok
<jono> I set up the container but it didn't seem to start from LightDM
 * willcooke off to a meeting with the big boss.  
<jono> I wanted to check if there were any known issues around it
<seb128> willcooke, good luck!
<willcooke> jono, would be good to catch up once you're back at work
<jono> willcooke, good luck!
<jono> willcooke, for sure
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Are you using unity8-lxc from the archive?
<jono> willcooke, let me know when you are free
<ChrisTownsend> jono: And on Wily?
<jono> ChrisTownsend, I followed the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity8inLXC
<jono> yep, Wily
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Then I assume you used the recommended installation path.
<jono> ChrisTownsend, what do you mean?
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Those instructions have either "Recommended installation path" or "Alternative installation for Utopic and later Ubuntu releases".  Let's just be sure.  Could you give the output of 'apt-cache policy unity8-lxc'?
<jono> ChrisTownsend, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13123920/
<ChrisTownsend> jono: I'll just say the unity8-lxc package from the wily archive is totally busted.
 * ChrisTownsend looks
<jono> ahhh
<jono> that is probably why
<ChrisTownsend> jono: No, you're using the version from the PPA that *should* be fixed.
<jono> ahhh
<jono> it seems to just hang from LightDM
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Ok, next, could you give me "/var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log.
<jono> ChrisTownsend, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/13123941/
<jono> damn, I have to run
<jono> will try to get back online in a bit
<jono> thanks, pal
<ChrisTownsend> jono: Ok, no problem.
<tedg> Trevinho: I'm not sure of one, but why do you need that?
<Trevinho> tedg: I want to make the file to generated by makefile with proper binary path (as it's in libexec), but i still want the upstart job to be installed in a place that is not PREFIX, but that its' UPSTART_PREFIX
<tedg> Trevinho: So usually I use DATADIR/upstart/sessions
<Trevinho> tedg: yeah, that's true, but if you install in staging, then.... But it has still pros...
<tedg> Trevinho: I think you're the last person to mention Upstart on IRC, which means, you're the maintainer! You should fix this :-)
<willcooke> Anyone know if Chris Coulson is around today?
<seb128> willcooke, he's in Austin I think
<seb128> unsure when he flights back
<willcooke> ahhh
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<seb128> yw
<seb128> tkamppeter, nice job figuring out the cups filter issue on the phone!
<seb128> willcooke, ^ I don't know if you saw that Till figured that out, it was a packaging problem with cups and an exec helper missing
<willcooke> yeah read the bugs reports thanks tkamppeter seb128
<tkamppeter> willcooke, seb128: I found this out by having a look into the source code of CUPS, looking for how CUPS calls sub-processes, and then I discovered that they recently have added this cups-exec wrapper, probably it was introduced after my initial splitting of the CUPS binary packages for the phone.
<willcooke> tkamppeter, good work!  Thanks
<desrt> good morning peeps
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<seb128> hey desrt
<seb128> larsu, did you look at the notify osd icon issue?
<desrt> good morning, french people
<didrocks> seb128: seems we are stamped :p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> Laney, could you have a look to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1512435 to see if you think the approach is fine? that should let us move g-c-c to universe
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1512435 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Stop depending on gnome-control-center" [High,In progress]
<mterry> kenvandine, hey man, got time to review a deja-dup branch?  (!)
<mterry> kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/deja-dup/no-python2/+merge/276875
<Sweet5hark> http://whatthecommit.com/ <- since its Friday, this is a worthy target for your F5s
<qengho> mterry: I don't know much, but is it normal to include a vapi file? Why not generate it at build time?
<mterry> qengho, maybe that's just a holdover from early days of vala when vapis would change out from under you and thus I value stability over cleverness  :)
<mterry> qengho, I got burned a lot early on and it was a formative experience  :)
<qengho> mterry: scar tissue isn't very flexible.
<Laney> seb128: looks good
<seb128> Laney, thanks
 * Laney cries, ffmpeg/armhf fails to build
<willcooke> :(
<Laney> correct response
<seb128> binutils' fault? ;-)
<Laney> that would be great/crap
 * Laney porter boxes the hell out of it
<Laney> unrelated, /me looks for a pitti ;-)
<pitti> Laney: sorry, no more pittis available
<Laney> this is an OUTRAGE
<Laney> THANKS OBAMA
<pitti> !?!?! I thought you bowed to the Queen
<ubot5> pitti: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<pitti> who talked to you, ubot5 ?
<Laney> You're in his land now, so I blame him :P
<Laney> how's it going?
<pitti> Laney: I'm not, I'm in Texas
<Laney> ouch :)
<Laney> pitti: Wondering if you know about debci missing some runs sometimes?
<Laney> e.g. the regressions for http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#glib2.0
<pitti> Laney: uh no, that's news to me
<Laney> I url-hacked the result.tar and log.gz for some of them
<Laney> pitti: for example http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/libm/libmediaart/xenial/armhf/ misses https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/armhf/libm/libmediaart/20151105_193117@/result.tar
<pitti> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial?prefix=xenial/armhf/libg/libgnatcoll&format=plain
<pitti> indeed, that's missing the 1105 run
<pitti> Laney: so no, that's completely news to me
<pitti> debci/data/autopkgtest/xenial/armhf/libg/libgnatcoll/20151105_195025@/ does exist
<pitti> Laney: did you already did a mass-retry? I didn't this morning
<pitti> (and might be a nice exercise for you; queues are empty, so have at them)
<Laney> not today
<pitti> Laney: there are some tmpfails apparently (your log)
<Laney> I wanted to leave glib in this state in case it was useful for you
<Laney> indeed
<pitti> Laney: well, the failed runs won't go away from swift, so debugging that on the debci instance is still possible
<Laney> I saw a few tmpfails like this
<Laney> <VirtSubproc>: failure: timed out waiting for container adt-virt-lxc-njbcip to start; last runlevel "unknown "
<pitti> right, me too; I found that yesterday and discussed with hallyn
<pitti> it's easily reproduced locally, one can't reboot containers ATM, they'll fail very early on with some "blabla can't get cgroup bla"
<pitti> bug 1497420
<ubot5> bug 1497420 in lxc (Ubuntu) "systemd 226 (moving pid 1 into /init.scope cgroup) breaks lxc-attach" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497420
<pitti> allegedly https://github.com/lxc/lxc/commit/f348e47c93568b4f0c371cf5df1c98d4e816a86c fixes this (that's the remaining open part), but haven't tested this yet
<Laney> pitti: are these tests going to work then?
<pitti> Laney: retrying the armhf ones makes little sense right now, but there might be some x86/ppc ones?
<pitti> Laney: still a bit confusing; clearly most armhf tests still work, so this apparenlty happens only with some reboots or tests which reboot explicitly or so
<pitti> $ sudo lxc-start -n adt-xenial -F
<pitti> log in, sudo reboot -> bang
<pitti> if anyone wants to check if the above patch helps, please do
<Laney> pitti: yeah, just not the ones which block glib :) (okay, udisks2 does on i386)
<Laney> that's another missing result
<Laney> and not a tmpfail
<Laney> I can try to build an lxc with that
<Laney> debci-xenial-amd64	36
<Laney> debci-xenial-armhf	0
<Laney> debci-xenial-i386	33
<Laney> debci-xenial-ppc64el	30
<Laney> om nom nom
<pitti> Laney: âº
<pitti> Laney: you know how to handle tmpfails? (I just recently documented that)
<Laney> rm pending.txt?
<pitti> right
<Laney> pitti: hmm, I can't make sudo reboot go bang
<Laney> I just started adt-xenial on a cyclops host and rebooted
<Laney> comes back up okay
<pitti> ah, I tried that on xenial amd64 host
<pitti> Laney: so that at least explains why not all of the test go boom
<pitti> Laney: perhaps something special then, like a test pulls in cgproxy or starts a specific service which changes cgroups or whatnot
<Laney> pitti: each reboot is clean, right?
<Laney> https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/armhf/libm/libmediaart/20151105_193117@/log.gz
<Laney> the last run doesn't do much
<Trevinho> uff, but isn't proposed enabled in s-jenkins?!
<pitti> Laney: right, but "unknown" essentially means "failed to boot", and there's a high chance that it's the bug above
<Laney> pitti: Yeah, just hard to verify
<Laney> I could just install this lxc deb on all the hosts...
<pitti> Laney: oh, you mean you ran that test with the patch applied?
<Laney> no
<Laney> I was making sure I could reproduce the bug first
<pitti> Laney: sure, we coudl install it with the patch and re-run the failing tests and see what happens
<Laney> I could try to run a real autopkgtest
<pitti> yeah, one of the failing ones
 * Laney isn't entirely sure how to correctly run this on one of the hosts though
<pitti> autopkgtest/run-from-checkout -s postgresql-9.4 --- lxc -es adt-xenial
<pitti> something like that
<pitti> ah, no -es, just -s
<pitti> -e aka --ephemeral doesn't support reboot
<Laney> nice, thanks
<pitti> Laney: and perhaps no shell and debugging, so
<pitti> autopkgtest/run-from-checkout -d libmediaart --- lxc -sd adt-xenial
<Laney> yup, it is running
<Laney> probably could have done this in screen :)
<Laney> ah man, now this passed
<Laney> pitti: suspicious> "Nov  5 19:08 running.html"
<Laney> Nov  5 19:30 /run/lock/debci-update.lock
 * seb128 finds a glib bug
<pitti> Laney: indeed!
 * pitti runs the cron job manually
<pitti> Laney: oh, that's fine -- debci got rebooted yesterday by IS, so that's just the creation date I figure
<pitti> I just restarted the status-collector, so that running.html will continue to work
<Laney> For the lock file yeah
<Laney> You can see that News is being updated but the package pages aren't
<RAOF> pitti: Bah! git has messed up the permissions on alioth. Could you kindly poke the ownership or acl so that I can actually push to it?
<RAOF> I've got the 1.2.12 release ready locally, with lots of bugfixes.
<RAOF> Hm. I should probably mention that the relevant repository is colord :)
<pitti> RAOF: erk, group "Debian"?
<pitti> I suppose that shold all be scm_collab_maint
<RAOF> Is Debian not just all DDs?
<pitti> RAOF: hm, seems I can't do that
 * RAOF should probably dust off his DD application sometime.
<pitti> $ LANG= chgrp scm_collab-maint colord.git/
<pitti> chgrp: changing group of `colord.git/': Operation not permitted
<RAOF> Urgh.
<RAOF> New plan: feel like pulling from github? :)
<RAOF> github.com/raof/colord
<pitti> so I seem to own the colord.git dir for some reason, but can't change it
<pitti> RAOF: I could also move it away, create a new one, and you re-push?
<RAOF> Yeah, could do that.
<pitti> RAOF: try pushing now
<pitti> RAOF: what I did was mv colord.git colord.git-brokenperms; cp -r colord.git-brokenperms colord.git
<pitti> RAOF: now everything has the right group
<RAOF> remote: fatal: Unable to create temporary file '/srv/git.debian.org/git/collab-maint/colord.git/./objects/pack/tmp_pack_XXXXXX': Permission denied
<RAOF> No dice.
<pitti> oh, still needs group writable, hang on
<pitti> RAOF: insert coin, try it again
<RAOF> Ding!
<pitti> (changed umask to 002)
<RAOF> Kindly run âgbp dch --full debianâ to generate the changelog, which it obviously doesn't have at the moment.
<pitti> err, on git.d.o? gbp?
<RAOF> Once you've pulled it.
<RAOF> Or I can generate and commit a changelog, if you want.
<pitti> RAOF: oh, pull locally?
<pitti> sorry, no idea what you mean
<pitti> RAOF: but I literally copied everything from the old .git, so what did get lost now?
<RAOF> I presume you'll pull locally, build, and then upload?
<Laney> He's asking for sponsorship. :P
<RAOF> Oh, nothing got lost.
<pitti> oh!
<pitti> sorry, -ECONTEXT :)
 * Laney blinks at running.html
<RAOF> Ah. Whereas *my* context was âhow can I push 1.2.12 to git.debian.org so that pitti can upload it for me âºâ
<pitti> RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13125936/,and 1ubuntu1 -> -2?
<pitti> and drop the [Martin Pitt]?
<RAOF> Hm, no. Odd.
<RAOF> Why doesn't yours pick up that it's a new upstream version?
<pitti> RAOF: perhaps do all the necessary changes and I'll just do the dch -rm?
<RAOF> Yup. Pushed a changelog; you merely need to remove UNRELEASED :)
<RAOF> Bah! That's why - I didn't git push --tags, so gbp dch didn't know about the new upstream.
<pitti> RAOF: unstable? or exp?
<RAOF> Unstable.
<pitti> RAOF: ok, building
<pitti> E: colord changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file unstable
<pitti> oh come on lintian, don't be so mean
<pitti> Debian is a fine distro
<seb128> haha
<sarnold> hehe :)
<seb128> which reminds me
<seb128> why isn't dch giving me "wily" and not "xenial"
<RAOF> It'll also complain about not calling ldconf, because we're behind.
 * seb128 looks at that
<pitti> RAOF: *mumble* thousand build deps *mumble* slow hotel network *mumble*
<attente> bbl, dentist appointment
<pitti> Laney: debci is missing other results too; I wonder if the reboot corrupted something
<pitti> Laney: I'll jst delete all xenial results and re-run *shrug*
<Laney> pitti: I think it's basically not updating
<Laney> or, the news pane is but the package pages not
<Laney> and the listener appears to be busted too?
<pitti> how so?
<Laney> running still not updating
<pitti> it'll only work for newly started tests
<Laney> I retried some after you started the collector again
<pitti> RAOF: uploaded
<RAOF> pitti: Woot! Thank you.
<RAOF> And now to merge it!
<pitti> RAOF: oh, we have a delta there?
<RAOF> Argyll isn't in main.
<RAOF> And I have no particular desire to do a MIR for it. (It's got all the awkwardness, including its own crazy buildsystem)
<RAOF> And is orphaned in Debian, and...
 * RAOF may have to pick it up in Debian...
<pitti> Laney: so the failed gliby tests work now?
<Laney> pitti: At least some https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_77e2ada1e7a84929a74ba3b87153c0ac/autopkgtest-xenial/xenial/armhf/libm/libmediaart/20151106_171233@/log.gz
<Laney> hard to have a global view until britney runs again
 * Laney hears fireworks quite close
<willcooke> This year has been pretty quiet round here.  Normally I hear them from about the start of October
<willcooke> last night we had a few, but I don't think as many as normal
<willcooke> Cubs bonfire tomorrow :)
<Laney> bah I think it's out of view
<Laney> nice
<Laney> oh, I can see them!
<Laney> it's not exactly a flowing display...
<seb128> what are the fireworks for?
<Laney> guy fawkes night yesterday
<didrocks> time for week-end! see you on Monday guys :-)
<didrocks> and enjoy hearing fireworks ;)
<Laney> bye did NOPE ALREADY GONE
<RAOF> Can haz a linitan that doesn't needlessly complain about postinst-must-call-ldconfig? :)
<pitti> we watched V for Vendetta last night
<pitti> was great!
<pitti> and there were lots of concerts
<mhall119> tedg: ping
<tedg> Howdy mhall119
<mhall119> tedg: hey, I'm working on the UbuCon schedule for Orlando, can you do an hour talk at 10am?
<tedg> mhall119: Sure, I fly in the night before.
<mhall119> tedg: awesome, thanks
<tedg> mhall119: I'm flexible
 * mhall119 looks forward to hanging out with tedg again
<tedg> Hah, yeah, should be good. Sad that I can't stay longer.
<tedg> We'll always have Ubucon ;-)
<mhall119> yes, new memories and embarrassing stories to tell :)
 * Trevinho leaves for the WE
<Laney> see you Trevinho
 * Laney is doing One More Build
<willcooke> going too, see y'all
<Laney> woot
<Laney> but srsly
<Laney> looks like poppler and ocaml x265 and x264 and soundtouch are entangled
<Laney> brutalism
<Laney> going to be a fun week fixing that! :)
<Laney> byeeeee
<seb128> Trevinho, have a good w.e
<seb128> Laney, :-(
<seb128> Laney, did we get an handle on the webkit situation?
<Trevinho> seb128: you too!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-07
<jbicha> robert_ancell: good morning
<jbicha> how does gnome-software 3.22 look for zesty?
<jbicha> or good afternoon
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I haven't looked at it yet...
<jbicha> I thought since you had pushed a lot of the changed Ubuntu needed into 3.22â¦
<jbicha> I haven't looked at it either in several weeks
<robert_ancell> jbicha, the main stuff is upstream, we just have a few small patches that aren't upstreamable
<jbicha> are those patches listed somewhere?
<jbicha> I found it very difficult to try to figure that out from looking at the git repo's
<robert_ancell> jbicha, no, they're all just merged into the ubuntu branches
<jbicha> I found it almost impossible to try to figure out the git histories
<jbicha> I'm used to something similar to a quilt workflow where the patches are clearly separate from upstream
<robert_ancell> jbicha, I used to maintain them as separate branches but they all got merged together when I wasn't working on it
<robert_ancell> I think I'll have to manually layer the other patches on top of master
<jbicha> when I say "almost impossible", there are hundreds of commits on the wip/ubuntu branch
<jbicha> git's nice but it allows for very complex workflows for packaging
<jbicha> anyway, bug 1636945 is the tracking bug
<ubot5`> bug 1636945 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Update gnome-software to 3.22" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1636945
<jbicha> thank you
<hikiko> hello
<hikiko> happy Monday :-p
<duflu> hikiko: Yes happy Monday
<duflu> Happy last Monday of not knowing who is the next US president
<duflu> Happy last Monday of the circus
<hikiko> Heh..
<hikiko> Yeah :-/
<duflu> Hmm that sounded less sincere than I meant
<desrt> happy monday!
<desrt> +1 duflu
<duflu> Morning desrt
<desrt> this election was supposed to be entertaining... it ended up closer to a mix of "terrifying" and "soul destroying"
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
<Laney> moin moin
<flexiondotorg> Laney, o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<hikiko> Trevinho, andyrock good morning, compiz doesn't build because of errors in tests did you change anything? (I am on yakkety)
<Laney> hi flexiondotorg & davmor2
<hikiko> well, I am fixing it I think it's mostly warnings treated as errors (but lots of warnings :P)
<Laney> how's it going?
<Laney> hi hikiko!
<hikiko> hey Laney flexiondotorg davmor2 and desktopers :)
<hikiko> how are you?
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<hikiko> hi seb128
<desrt> hi seb, hikiko, Laney
<hikiko> hi desrt
<hikiko> happy monday :p
<desrt> :D
<seb128> hey desrt hikiko Laney
<Laney> hi seb128 & desrt!
<seb128> had a good w.e?
 * Laney enjoys the daily n * (n-1) greeting round
<desrt> hello laney!
 * desrt adds 1 again
<Laney> yes, went up to the north east, saw some fireworks and walked by the river tyne
<Laney> it's getting cccccccccccccccold
<Laney> especially up there
 * desrt went to jena with mascha to visit a couple of friends
<Laney> you?
<Laney> how's france?
<seb128> good, cold as well!
 * Laney looks up jena
<Laney> germany has all these cities i've never heard of
<desrt> it's full of medium-sized cities
<Laney> ya
<seb128> w.e was mostly relaxing
<Laney> sauna?
<seb128> no, still have a bit of cold so not this time
<Laney> this cold is long lasting :-o
<seb128> yeah, I'm better though, still sneezing a bit and feeling a bit warm at times but otherwise no major annoyance
<seb128> it's part of the winter standard pack :p
<hikiko> here after a weekend of cold and rain we have 24 degrees :p should be winter now...
<Laney> O_O
<seb128> how cold is winter usually around your place?
<Laney> it's like 6 max today
<hikiko> the temperature never goes lower than -6 well, some rare times it does for a few days but that's all
<seb128> 3.8Â°C outside atm here
<hikiko> we usually have 0 and below 0 in december and january though
<hikiko> sometimes snow in february
<hikiko> and then sun, sun, sun...
<hikiko> well, and sudden rainy days
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> gotta grow those olives somehow
<hikiko> haha
<desrt> seb128: ubuflu?
<seb128> desrt, one week delayed but yeah
<hikiko> or fl-ubuntu depends what happened first: the 16.10 release or the begining of the flu?
<hikiko> well, question to desktopers: should I top approve myself a branch that fixes compile errors in compiz caused by unused test functions?
<hikiko> seb128, Laney ?
<seb128> you can probably get andyrock or Trevinho to do that for you
<hikiko> seb128, that's what I normally do, I was just wondering if I should leave trunk with compile errors until their day starts or it's fine to merge the fix now (since the fix is just to comment out the unused test functions that break the build)
<seb128> does it impact on any CI or anything? did you want to set up a landing?
<Laney> you can already start a landing before it's approved if you need to
<hikiko> seb128, I don't know
<hikiko> it only breaks when I try to build it locally
<hikiko> how can I check if it breaks any CI too?
<seb128> well approving the mp is not going to fix that until you do a landing with the change
<hikiko> I see
<hikiko> seb128, is there a way to check if the broken trunk has been landed?
<seb128> well, if compiz is on CI trunk should be what is in Ubuntu
<hikiko> I guess that if it has not been landed yet there's no rush I can wait for Trevinho
<seb128> since things get commited when doing landings
<hikiko> oh
<hikiko> seb128, so, what do you suggest?
<seb128> I don't understand the problem
<seb128> if trunk doesn't build you probably want a landing with your fix
<hikiko> yeah, what I don't understand for sure is if the users are affected somehow now
<seb128> define "users"
<hikiko> compiz has some compile errors but will the users notice it if they don't build the source package?
<desrt> seb128: get well soon :)
<seb128> users don't build so are not impacted by build issues
<seb128> desrt, thanks!
<seb128> contributors might be
<hikiko> right
<hikiko> so, there's no rush to top-approve and land the change?
<Trevinho> hi seb128/hikiko
<hikiko> hi Trevinho :)
<hikiko> thanks for the reviews
<hikiko> Trevinho, compiz has some compile errors
<hikiko> just warning treated as errors
<hikiko> https://code.launchpad.net/~hikiko/compiz/compiz.fix-compile-errors
<Trevinho> hikiko: ah, probably something changed under the hood
<hikiko> could you review this branch?
<hikiko> yep
<Trevinho> hikiko: since there has been a landing few days ago.. and in the mean time something might have changed
<hikiko> I just commented them out in case someone needs to put them back at some point
<hikiko> yup
<hikiko> I just didn't know how urgent is that tbh
<Trevinho> hikiko: well, you can remove them at all...
<Trevinho> hikiko: bzr history will do the job in case
<hikiko> ok give me a minute
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: allright, you? Got a nice we?
<seb128> relaxing w.e in France indeed!
<seb128> you?
<hikiko> Trevinho, fixed
<Trevinho> hikiko: did you also check that expo branch for further fixes?
<hikiko> not yet Trevinho I am fixing the moving windows now
<hikiko> but I couldn't see the gap last time :/ /me was so happy :p I am going to test again
<tjaalton> anpok: hi, had a chance to test new libinput yet?
<tjaalton> anpok: it's blocking new x-x-i-libinput build
<Laney> ubuntu@juju-stg-ue-appstream-back-machine-2:~$ cat /srv/appstream/itworked
<Laney> hooray
 * Laney weeps
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> that was quite a challenge
 * Laney is now a cloud guy
<Laney> screw you desktop
<seb128> heh!
 * seb128 hands some tea for Laney
<Laney> I have a celebratory feta & lemon quinoa salad for lunch
<seb128> sounds good, enjoy ;-)
<Laney> need to write down the hacks first
<Laney> so I don't forget them for the real charm
<Laney> ._.
<Laney> actually there's just one I think
<Laney> k, biab
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<andyrock> good "morning"
<seb128> andyrock, hey ;-) how are you? have a good w.e?
<andyrock> seb128: yep, enjoying the city
<andyrock> seb128: what about you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks, had a quiet and relaxing w.e in France
<seb128> though my cold is still annoying me a bit at times
<andyrock> seb128: ubuflu? :/
<andyrock> i'll be in France next w.e.
<andyrock> \o/
<seb128> andyrock, yeah, delayed ubuflu from previous week, I feel better but not still a bit sick/hot at times
<seb128> andyrock, where in France?
<andyrock> Carcassone and Narbonne
<jbicha> seb128: is Sweet5hark still on holiday? I want to rebuild LO for the glew transition but I didn't want to bother if we were just going to get LO 5.2.3 this week anyway
<anpok> tjaalton: not yet.. I might not get to it today
<seb128> jbicha, he should be back today according to our hr website
<seb128> jbicha, unsure he plans to update zesty/started on that, also did you test if it still builds with the current toolchain?
<seb128> libreoffice tends to start cycle with a round of toolchain issues to sort out
<tjaalton> anpok: alright, no worries
<jbicha> no, I didn't test-build LO yet
 * Sweet5hark is back ...
<Sweet5hark> jbicha: i wouldnt bother with 5.2.3 on zesty if we can avoid it as we should go for LO 5.3.x there is the end. for transitions just go with whatever is in yakkety-security. there is little value in 5.2.3 over that for zesty, if we bump to 5.3.x in the end there anyway.
<andyrock> bucklespring snap compulsory for next sprint
<Sweet5hark> andyrock: hah, Ill bring my trusty model m: bucklespring unplugged ftw!
 * Laney has a Das Keyboard with Cherry MX Blue (clicky) keys
<Laney> we can have a click-off
<ricotz> jbicha, Sweet5hark, pushed a lo rebuild for zesty to https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+sourcepub/7108855/+listing-archive-extra -- I assume there are several transitions already, at least boost and glew
<ogra_> Laney, how do yu like it ?
 * ogra_ just threw away his CODE after half the switches stopped working right after it ran out of warranty ... 
<ogra_> i got a vortex pok3r now :)
<ogra_> (MX brown though ... only mildlly clicky)
<Laney> ogra_: It's nice, I like the tactileness (if that's a word)
<Laney> and the clicking sounds badass :)
<Laney> I probably type on the XPS more though
<Laney> should do something about that
<ogra_> yeah, i never had MX blues ... the clear ones of the CODE were way to heavy for me though
<Laney> like use the das keyboard on the xps instead of the external chiclet one I have now
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> my typing is 50/50 XPS/pok33r
<ogra_> depending oe where i work (the laptop is in the living room)
 * Laney has it on a stand next to the desktop normally
<xnox> sil2100,
<xnox> make[1]: Entering directory '/<<BUILDDIR>>/storage-framework-0.1+16.10.20160909'
<xnox> Unknown distro series zesty
<xnox> debian/rules:21: recipe for target 'override_dh_auto_clean' failed
<xnox> in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/storage-framework/0.1+16.10.20160909-0ubuntu2 what shall i do?
<sil2100> hm
<xnox> it does say bileto something, or maybe that's just a red herring?
<sil2100> eh, yeah, possibly the bileto_pre_release_hook is badly written or simply outdated, possibly doesn't know what zesty is to handle the packaging for it
<sil2100> kenvandine: ping
<sil2100> xnox: I can take a quick look into that, but best if upstream also fixes this upstream
<Laney> looks like an upstream thing
<Laney> slightly shady at that
<sil2100> xnox: (the bileto_pre_release_hook is a 'packaging bit' in some Bileto-supported packages, it's run on clean when building the package)
<sil2100> xnox: yeah, I see their scripts only handle explicit series versions here, would like to coordinate this with them
<Laney> chrisccoulson / ricotz: what's the right packaging vcs for firefox/zesty (do all releases use the same branch?)?
<ricotz> Laney, no dedicated one yet, so lp:~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.yakkety
<ricotz> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~mozillateam
<Laney> ricotz: yes I see 99999 branches there
<Laney> thx
<ricotz> Laney, the recently changed mature ones are the release ones
<Laney> I want to know where to propose a packaging change to for the development release
<Laney> don't care about the rest, although if the policy is to have the packaging in sync then that's fine
<Laney> (assuming the maintainer will take care of that)
 * Laney will just use yakkety
<bregma> attente, are you coming to the Mir stakeholder review?
<attente> bregma: sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-08
<robert_ancell> attente, awake?
<attente> robert_ancell: yep! how's it going?
<robert_ancell> attente, good. I've been hacking around with g-s 3.22.
<robert_ancell> I've made a wip/ubuntu-zesty branch with out changes on top of that. I *think* I've got everything across, but if you could keep an eye out in case something got dropped.
<robert_ancell> I figure it's good enough to release to zesty and we can fix if we find anything
<attente> robert_ancell: that's awesome, thanks! i can take a look at it tomorrow
<hikiko> hello
<siva_machina> hello
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks, Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> pitti: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<pitti> didrocks: je vais bien aussi, merci ! The Bucharest sprint was busy, and I had a "household" swap day yesterday, so now off to attacking the backlog :)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, I can imagine the backlog! Good luck with this :)
<desrt> happy tuesday!
<pitti> hey desrt, wie gehts?
<desrt> pretty good :D
<desrt> last day of the madness
<pitti> desrt: oh, which madness?
<desrt> US election day
<flexiondotorg> desrt, pitti didrocks Morning
<didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
<didrocks> morning desrt
<desrt> hi didrocks, flexiondotorg
<hikiko> hey
<hikiko> I have a super weird+annoying problem with u7 sessions in Y
<hikiko> and I can't figure out what caused it
<hikiko> I start xfce with startx
<hikiko> and u7 from lightdm
<hikiko> and when I leave the u7 tty for any reason
<hikiko> compiz stops and then I see the login screen and if I login a new session starts
<hikiko> I attached compiz to gdb
<hikiko> and it doesn't crash, it exits normally
<hikiko> which means that something else in the system is responsible for that
<hikiko> and I only have this problem on Y since I upgraded :/
<hikiko> do you have any idea what I should check?
<hikiko> my settings are the default
<hikiko> gsettings
<flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko
<hikiko> hi flexiondotorg :)
<Sweet5hark> moin
<willcooke> morning all
<hikiko> hi wi
<hikiko> hi willcooke :p
 * hikiko goes to debug to see where the exit signal comes from
<hikiko> bbiab
<Laney> hey hey
<willcooke> morning Laney
<Laney> hey willcooke
<seb128> good morning willcooke Laney hikiko
<Laney> how was center parcs?
<willcooke> Laney, great thanks!  The kids all loved it
<Laney> nice!
 * Laney wants to go in a pool with wave machine
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> hey seb128, hoe gaat het?
<seb128> willcooke, did you enjoy it as well?
<willcooke> Laney, have you been to the one in Sherwood?
<Laney> willcooke: nope
<willcooke> seb128, yeah it was good, but I need another holiday :)
<willcooke> Laney, it's worth it I think as a grown-ups mid-week break
<seb128> Laney, goed, dankje! jou?
<Laney> we usually end up going on holidays you need a holiday from
<Laney> like staying in youth hostels in december
<willcooke> ha
<Laney> seb128: ik ben geweldig!
<Sweet5hark> whoa, this zigbee worm is scary: spreading over the air (NOT over existing network topography, but directly from device to device), triggering citywide epileptic attacks while all wifi will be jammed. And all that just with one vulnerable lightbulb.
<Laney> ik klom gisteravond
<seb128> leuk!
 * seb128 googles geweldig, that's not something people on daily basis ;p
 * Sweet5hark has babelfish hiccups.
<Laney> en fietste naar huis in de kou
<Laney> hahahaha
 * Laney is secretly fluent in Dutch don't you know
<Laney> hi Sweet5hark!
<Sweet5hark> hrhr
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney, seb128, Sweet5hark, willcooke
<willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<flexiondotorg> Mentally fine. Have managed to surface an old rugby injury so my back is not so great :-(
<seb128> :-/
<davmor2> Morning all
<Sweet5hark> flexiondotorg: ouch, does a hot-water bottle or infrared help?
<willcooke> howdy davmor2
<flexiondotorg> Sweet5hark, Heated pad.
<flexiondotorg> And walking.
 * Laney nods davmor2 
<willcooke> Brexit is gettin' real: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37904703
<seb128> that's a positive impact
<seb128> you end up eating less chocolate/sugar with smaller portions ;-)
<willcooke> :)
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: "eat less chocolate, we cant afford those 350 bazillion to the NHS"?
<willcooke> :DD
<xnox> Why choose the lesser evil?
<davmor2> Sweet5hark: no you have it all wrong they want you to eat more chocolate and die of obesity then they don't have to treat you at all
<flocculant> willcooke: just wait till we can only get english chocolate
<davmor2> flocculant: Why English chocolate is good :P
<didrocks> (hem)
<flocculant> yea - but I don't think any is made by english companies anymore - there'll be none at all :(
<Sweet5hark> davmor2: that wont happen, you guys will blackmail the continent to bring chocolate otherwise the continent wont get any english tea!
<flocculant> Sweet5hark: ha ha
<davmor2> hahaha
<hikiko> xserver crashes when I switch TTY on Y
<hikiko> receives sigabrt
<hikiko> that's the problem
<hikiko> xf86VTEnter is the function
<hikiko> anyone who has experienced the prob in Y?
<hikiko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/30395
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 30395 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "X-Server Crashes when switch back from terminal tty" [Medium,Fix released]
<hikiko> it seems that we have a bug report for something similar
<hikiko> but... 2006 :p
<hikiko> https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=desktop-packages@lists.launchpad.net&q=subject:%22\[Desktop\-packages\]+\[Bug+1569351\]+Re\%3A+Xorg+crashed+with+SIGABRT+in%09OsAbort\%28\%29%22&o=newest&f=1
<hikiko> question:
<hikiko> can I downgrade the xserver?
<seb128> sure
<seb128> tjaalton might be able to help you with the bug
<hikiko> :D
<seb128> you could also try the modesettings drivers instead of the intel one
<hikiko> the 2nd bug report shows that nvidia have the problem too what are the modesettings drivers?
<seb128> they replace the intel ones
<seb128> but if you are on nvidia that's probably not a solution
<seb128> did you report your bug?
<hikiko> I think that since the gdb shows that it's xorg that crashes the downgrade is better
<seb128> the one you mentioned is from 2006
<hikiko> no because there's a bug report already
<hikiko> no no
<hikiko> the 2nd link
<hikiko>  https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=desktop-packages@lists.launchpad.net&q=subject:%22\[Desktop\-packages\]+\[Bug+1569351\]+Re\%3A+Xorg+crashed+with+SIGABRT+in%09OsAbort\%28\%29%22&o=newest&f=1
<hikiko> that's 2016
<seb128> you have the same backtrace
<seb128> downgrading is a workaround
<seb128> better to get the bug investigated and fixed if we can
<hikiko> yep I am going to report it
<hikiko> seb128, and maybe, well do we have an xorg developer here? should I try to debug xorg?
<seb128> tjaalton is looking after xorg, he can maybe hint you about where/how to report the issue and if it's a known one
<hikiko> ok I'll ping him and do a bug report in the meantime, thank you seb128 :)
<seb128> yw!
<pitti> Laney: workers died because apparently vivid images got removed from glance :(
<pitti> i. e. that needs an RT (that already happened before)
<pitti> or alternatively, some discussion whether we can drop vivid at last
<seb128> pitti, why do we need vivid images?
<seb128> the distro serie is still supported for touch
<seb128> but it doesn't mean we need to do extra work it?
<pitti> seb128: well, the train requests tests for landings to it
<pitti> and we need to be able to run those
<seb128> ah, right
<Laney> hey pitti
<seb128> fun
<Laney> pitti: where do you see that?
<pitti> Laney: I just ran the maintenance cron job and restarted them, but previously all workers died like that
 * flexiondotorg nips out for a quick walk
<Laney> pitti: I don't see a queue, did those requests get dropped?
<Laney> failed I suppose
<pitti> Laney: no, as I just restarted them, they are currently pending in the "wait 5 mins and then retry" x3 loop
<pitti> after that, the worker will die again and punt them back to the queue
<pitti> i. e. in about 10 mins
<pitti> Laney: I restarted them to process the pending zesty ones
<Laney> they don't show in running when this happens?
<Laney> pitti: anyways, do you have a link to the previous RT?
<pitti> Laney: no, when the worker does sleep(300) there is no logtail, as the actual autopkgtest run has finished
<pitti> Laney: that's a potential improvement indeed
<Laney> the same worker has the queue item still
 * pitti searches email archive for that RT
<Laney> that explains it
<Laney> I forgot the reason for this wait 5 minutes Ã 3 thing instead of putting things back in the queue
<pitti> Laney: https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=90342
<pitti> Laney: it avoids having to add a counter to the AMQP message (you can't modify it really)
<pitti> Laney: so you can give the cloud 5 minutes to take a breath (and maybe let another test finish), then you have a better chance of having enough quota
<pitti> but if it fails repeatedly, let the worker die so the others have more breathing room
<pitti> or a test doesn't get retried infinitely often in a tight loop
<Laney> pitti: ok, I can see that it keeps tests out of the rotation for a bit
<Laney> pitti: so why did the old adt image get deleted?
<FJKong_> Laney: hello
<Laney> hi
<pitti> Laney: good question, I don't know -- maybe someone thinking "oh, vivid images, these can go"
<FJKong_> one question: source code number is 3.5,old package number is 1:3.5-1, if new upstram source code version number is 3.5.1 package number is 1:3.5.1-0 is this ok?
<FJKong_> 1:3.5.1-0 is newer than 1:3.5-1?
<Laney> FJKong_: If in Ubuntu: 1:3.5.1-0ubuntu1, if Debian: 1:3.5.1-1
<FJKong_> thanks
<Laney> FJKong_: Do `dpkg --compare-versions v1 gt v2 && echo yes'
<Laney> have a look at "man dpkg" and search for "compare-versions" to find out more about that
<FJKong_> ok
<FJKong_> cool
<Laney> pitti: ok, filed
<pitti> Laney: cheers
<Laney> pitti: so what drives the daily image updating?
<Laney> I see build-adt-image-all-clouds but not how that is invoked
<pitti> RELEASE=${RELEASE:-$(distro-info --devel)}
<pitti> Laney: correct, I only do this for the devel series; I use the daily official images for stables
<pitti> Laney: that is slower for every test (as the setup script has much more stuff to do), but simpler as we don't need to generate custom adt images for all releases
<Laney> pitti: ah right
<pitti> Laney: i. e. create-nova-image-new-release is (a) an optimization over daily cloud images, and (b) needed for opening a new release while we don't have official cloud images for it yet
<pitti> Laney: for (a) that essentially just pre-applies setup-testbed to the image, so that for the actual test it's a fast no-op
<pitti> Laney: and for (b) you call it manually on the previous stable image (like the latest yakkety image for z), and it'll then dist-upgrade to zesty
<Laney> I should practice that at some point
<seb128> Laney, pitti, unsure if you saw bug #1633162 but it's another issue due to the systemd user session
<ubot5`> bug 1633162 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Files application throws an error 'Oops! Something went wrong' when clicked on 'Recents'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633162
<pitti> Laney: you can practice by taking a trusty daily and creating a wily image (and then delete it again)
<pitti> Laney: wily is still marked as supported for reasons that are beyond me, so it's on archive.u.c.
<pitti> seb128: I saw it fly by, yes; slowly working through the backlog from last week, I'll look at bug 1637758 next
<ubot5`> bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1637758
<Laney> pitti: ack, I'll try that
<Laney> pitti: ok, I see the regex stuff for selecting an image now so I understand how this works I think
<Laney> seb128: yeah
<Laney> pitti: I subscribed you to a bug regarding the lightdm change too, if you saw that - could be the same root cause (multiple running u-s-ds)
<Laney> ah yes I think it is - that one talks about xsettings
<pitti> Laney: yeah, I forgot to stop the session
 * Laney has duped it now
<pitti>            State: closing
<pitti>             Unit: session-c1.scope
<pitti>                   ââ2720 /usr/lib/at-spi2-core/at-spi2-registryd --use-gnome-session
<pitti>                   ââ2822 nm-applet
<pitti>                   ââ2824 /usr/lib/unity-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon
<pitti> is what I get on my system
<Laney> same (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1639658/comments/3)
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1639658 Revision 2409 introduces regression" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pitti> but this is z only, so just "urgent", not "panic"
<Laney> ya
<Laney> we'd have noticed on Y already, the menus thing is pretty obvious :)
<andyrock> morning
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<andyrock> terrible...
<seb128> :-(
 * andyrock is reviewing Trevinho's branches
<andyrock> ahaha
<seb128> lol
<Trevinho> bastard :-D
<seb128> did he rewrote half of unity over night again?
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<Trevinho> seb128: it's ooold stuff
<seb128> hey Trevinho! how are you?
<Trevinho> seb128: ok, good... I've spent yesterday evening in snappying some stuff
<Trevinho> seb128: remmina, actually... although I had to use this workaround to maket it properly load from an absolute path.... https://github.com/3v1n0/Remmina-snap/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L72 (+ the run script)
<seb128> Trevinho, that's quite hackish
<Trevinho> that come up since last saturday I was at the Italian LOCO team meeting... And so there was some interest in snappying...
<seb128> couldn't you just use /snap/<name>/current?
<Trevinho> seb128: indeeeeed, but no
<seb128> great
<seb128> why?
<Trevinho> seb128: if I'd use that prefix, then cmake would try to install in /snap/<name>/current//snap/<name>/current
<Trevinho> and... upstream code is not wrong in that sense...
<seb128> right
<Trevinho> so unless we don't have proper mount bindings, I don't see other solution than this :-(
<seb128> then you can use an organize rule to move /snap/<name>/current/usr to /usr
<Trevinho> being /tmp the only absolute path we've
<seb128> which gives you back things under /snap/<name>/current
<Trevinho> oh
<Trevinho> seb128: do you have an exapmle?
<seb128> Trevinho, https://github.com/8none1/gedit310/blob/master/snapcraft.yaml#L19
<seb128> that's autotools not cmake
<seb128> but the principle is the same
<Trevinho> nice... but yeah
<seb128> be careful you should do that in a part that has the build only
<seb128> if you have stage packages in the same part you might end moving their content as well
<seb128> which you don't want to do
<Trevinho> I see
<Trevinho> seb128: I've got this problem with appindicator though https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1639988
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1639988 in Snappy "Snaps using libappindicator and unity7 plug can't show app-indicators" [Undecided,New]
<Trevinho> see the test snap in the bottom, you can compile it in seconds
<seb128> weird
<seb128> indicators should work
<seb128> I'm about to go for lunch but can try after that
<Trevinho> seb128: sure, well... It used to, but I get permission problems
<xnox> seb128, shall we have a UOS session about "3rd debate on building Ubuntu desktop i386 isos"?
<tedg> mpt: Is it "a URL" or "an URL" ?
<seb128> xnox, do you think a discussion in a session is likely to useful to get to a conclusion?
<xnox> seb128, i really really do hope so. Last time we got to (a) i386 is canonical supported architecture (b) Xorg stack on i386 is continued to be supported
<xnox> but we didn't get to timings
<xnox> thus I'm hoping to achieve consensus that yes we may stop building ubuntu-zesty-desktop-i386.iso
<seb128> k, register one then I guess
 * ogra_ grins about tedg ... an american asking a kiwi about english grammar 
 * seb128 is writing to you from an i386 ubuntu install
<xnox> tedg, english a & an are based on how things are pronounced, not written. Thus it's a URL
<xnox> and e.g. an honest answer (because h is silent)
<xnox> http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/a-versus-an -> hehe "a unicorn" yet "an umbrella"
<tedg> xnox: Yeah, I found that reference, but I wasn't sure on the case of "U" in "URL" because it is closer to "you" than "un"
 * xnox believes that you is a consonant sound
 * tedg isn't sure of anything anymore
<xnox> http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/writing-for-business/which-is-correct-a-url-or-an-url/
<xnox> Although the U at the first of URL is a vowel, the abbreviation is pronounced âyou-are-ell.â Because the letter Y is a consonant in this case, use a rather than an.
<tedg> But I was figuring mpt had done a fair amount of work with Mozilla, he'd know for sure :-)
<xnox> tedg, somehow i suspect that mpt would say use "Location" =) hence the Ctrl+L is the shortcut for "type the URL in"
<tedg> Heh, that's cheating! ;-)
<tedg> xnox: Oh, also while you're here... I have on my TODO to follow up with you and make sure you talked to pitti about backporting the graphical-session target to xenial.
<tedg> Is that all good?
<tedg> (or at least on the TODO list)
<xnox> tedg, well that's backwards. Before we backport things (a) are all migrations done in zesty (b) do we need any remaining bobs in yakkety (c) what do we need in xenial (i'm guess all of it?!)
<xnox> tedg, cause e.g. we will not be switching xenial folks on classic to systemd graphical session.
<tedg> xnox: We need it to get into ubuntu-core so that we can use it to based the unity8-snap on.
<tedg> xnox: So it's not a matter of migrating xenial folks as much as laying a foundation.
<xnox> right but you said you need system systemd and system pam to start graphical target for you..... yet mix in user session units from the unity8 snap; which snapd does not support at the moment.
<tedg> Sure, working on that too. But trying to make everything land.
<tedg> We need snapd to do user session units, I have a meeting on that tomorrow :-)
<tedg> I don't think that getting the graphical-session target into xenial needs to block on that though.
<xnox> tedg, right.
<xnox> tedg, note, it's not just user .service files; but user .target; user .socket; etc.
<tedg> xnox: Man, now you want ALL the units! ;-)
<pitti> tedg: oh, you literally just want the two *.target unit files, not the entire set of fixes and ports to *use* them?
<pitti> tedg: I can cram that into the next SRU, sure (but not sure how much that actually helps without the supporting infra)
<tedg> pitti: I'm not entirely certain there. We want to be able to make a snap that can be part of the graphic-session target.
<xnox> pitti, well i think the polling method for starting graphical-target needs to go in too.
<pitti> like systemctl start --wait?
<tedg> pitti: I imagine we'll need more than just the target files, but I don't understand how much more.
<xnox> pitti, whatever you coded and merged upstream, yeah.
<pitti> that's a loot more
<pitti> it's also dbus-user-session, two handfuls of fixes for it, etc.
<xnox> pitti, and eventually we will have these sessions in xenial: unity7 (upstart), unity8 (upstart), unity8-snap (systemd)
<xnox> pitti, and eventually we will have these sessions in yakkety: unity7 (upstart), unity8 (systemd), unity8-snap (systemd)
<pitti> and given that we still find subtle regression, we can't possibly switch existing xenial systems to that
<tedg> I thought dbus-user-session was already in xenial?
<xnox> nope.
<pitti> the package yes, but not functional
<xnox> tedg, your best bet at the moment is to test Unity8 snaps on yakkety classic system with snapd
<xnox> because all the user session support is in there. and your base is the right one.
<tedg> Sure, I guess that's fine for the moment. But I'm concerned that we don't have a path to get it so that a U8 snap could run on core 16.
<xnox> tedg, or are you after an all-snaps system? my understanding that personal all-snaps doesn't exist yet, and should be started with work on core 16?!
<tedg> Yes, all snaps doesn't exist yet, but it is the goal and is expected to work on core 16.
<xnox> tedg, when you say core 16, do you mean xenial-classic with snapd? yakkety-classic with snapd? all-snaps core 16?
<tedg> All snaps core 16.
<tedg> Ubuntu Core Snap series 16.
<xnox> tedg, if we can shove the dbus-user-session from zesty into your unity8 snap... we should be fine =)
<xnox> to be honest
<xnox> i somehow expect to use systemd from unity8 snap for the user session init; talking to system systemd from ubuntu core 16 as pid 1
<xnox> pitti, what do you think ^
<tedg> I don't think we can do that? I mean, we don't have any control over that part of the session AFAIK. That'd require quite a few holes.
<xnox> horum. maybe jdstrand can help =)
<pitti> xnox: not sure what you mean -- user systemd doesn't really talk to the system systemd
<xnox> jdstrand, is it fine, on an all snaps system, for system PAM and system systemd; spawn pam_logind using session logind/systemd from the unity8 snap?
<xnox> pitti, true. (i'm getting confused with like how upstart user session worked)
<pitti> xnox: wasn't that the same? I don't think the session and system inits talked to each other directly; at most via these bridges
<xnox> right.
<tedg> I have a hard time imagining systemd confined in a snap. It needs access all over for cgroups and such.
<xnox> somehow imho graphical.target; dbus-user-session; and the whole lot should be all inside the unity8 snap. Even if it means a user dbus; inside the unity8 snap; specific to unity8 and not connected to a user session dbus vissible via ssh into the all snaps system.
<xnox> tedg, user systemd has no access to cgroups and such.
<mpt> tedg, I use âaâ because I pronounce it âYoo Arr Ellâ, which starts with a consonant sound
<xnox> Arrrrrr
<tedg> mpt: Makes sense to me! Thanks!
<seb128> thanks tedg xnox mpt ;-)
<tedg> xnox: If that's the case then every desktop has to replicate that and there's no way for snapd to do user services.
<seb128> tedg, sorry for the noise!
<tedg> xnox: User services would only be defined for inside the snap instead of inside the session.
<xnox> tedg, hypothetically who do you expect to own the session; the display; and which interface to launch if two snaps are installed: unity8 and xubuntu
<xnox> and both provide.... interface user-graphical.target?
<xnox> or should snapd only connect one of them?
<xnox> or if we have multiple snaps.... only connect those that you want/need? e.g. connect unity8 snap and median-scanner snap with user units; but not the xubuntu snap
<tedg> xnox: No, it would connect each of them to lightdm:sessions
<tedg> xnox: Then lightdm would deal with handling the multiple and starting the right one.
 * xnox cries but lightdm has it's own systemd user session too.....
<xnox> ..
<xnox> i think for now we want xenial's systemd to have graphical.target unit or whatever it was and that's it. And deal with dbus-user-session et.al. later.
<pitti> well, user systemd plus session dbus isn't going to work
<xnox> pitti, can you please just sru in the two units into xenial and that's it, for now?
<pitti> sure
<xnox> pitti, right, but i have no idea how all-snaps systems currently handle multi-user, and if we can switch ubuntu core 16 to dbus-user-session; or if we can use dbus-user-session only via lightdm:session interface; or via a gadget snap or some such.
<xnox> i should play with an all snap system in a vm and poke things experimentally.
<willcooke> ding ding ding!
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  8 15:30:51 2016 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong (out), flexiondotorg, happyaron (out), hikiko, laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<flexiondotorg> o/
<hikiko> hi
<seb128> hey
<andyrock> hi
<Laney> meow
<qengho> Aiee!
<desrt> *mwah
<andyrock> willcooke: I still have to prepare the bullet list
<andyrock> can you start with someone else? :D
<willcooke> sure!
<willcooke> muhahaha
<willcooke> #topic attente
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: attente
<willcooke> Let's come back to attente too
<attente> sorry
<attente> i'm ready
<willcooke> ah, cool,
<attente> debugging some issues with libertine menus and fonts
<attente> finished fixing fcitx-qimpanel build to allow local installation
<attente> looked into the broken gtk menus and dpi scale issues a bit, gtk isn't reading the xsettings properly, but not sure how to fix that
<attente> re-wrote the jhbuild plugin to use bubblewrap instead of lxc, needs tests+docs
<attente> still need a review of content-hub-glib before landing the copy-paste stuff in gtk
<attente> (eof)
<willcooke> thanks attente
<willcooke> #topic desrt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: desrt
<desrt> i figured out the security for the proxy, and implementation is underway.  will continue on that this week.
<willcooke> woo!
<desrt> might be interesting to see if we can use this as an alternative to the xsettings stuff to solve the issues attente is seeing
<desrt> that's all, really
<willcooke> thanks desrt
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> - worked on bug #1589401, no results just yet
<dgadomski> - returning to bug #1598183
<dgadomski> - working on bug #1598183
<ubot5`> bug 1589401 in NetworkManager "cannot view wifi networks after re-enabling wifi" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1589401
<ubot5`> bug 1598183 in gvfs "Operation not permitted while writing to symlinked fuse locations" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598183
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski, feel free to reach out to happyaron on #1589401 - he might be able to assit
<willcooke> assist
<willcooke> #topic FJKong_
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: FJKong_
<willcooke> libproxy-0.4.13.
<willcooke>   * New upstream release
<willcooke>   * Remove 3 Patches
<willcooke> klog-0.9.2.5-1
<willcooke> make new upstream release
<willcooke> upload to :
<willcooke> https://mentors.debian.net/package/klog
<willcooke> fix bug#831236
<willcooke> * xnec2c
<willcooke>   * New upstream release
<willcooke>     - add icon image to fix gui-app-without-icon error
<willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> Time appropriate greetings
<flexiondotorg> - Researched this weeks candidates for the Snap Upstream Blitz and updated their Trello board.
<flexiondotorg> - Reviewed the ISV Snap advocacy process and documentation.
<flexiondotorg> - Several calls learning the process for ISV Snap advocacy.
<flexiondotorg> - Learning the snap advocacy process came round sooner than I expected and has taken longer than I thought to learn. I'm up to speed now.
<flexiondotorg> - Reworking merge proposals for aptdaemon and update-manager (LP: #1623856) - PPA coming later for testing.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623856 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Scrolled Windows in update-manager are too small to read" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623856
<flexiondotorg> - Fix for deja-dup scrolled windows (LP: #1623835) - MP and PPA coming later.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1623835 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Updated gtk element means you need to specify a size on the details drop down or it is only 1 line high" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623835
<flexiondotorg> eof
<willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg, great stuff
<willcooke> #topic happyaron
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: happyaron
<willcooke> 1. dkms: lots of bugs, upstreamed apport related updates
<willcooke>     merge is pending because how to handle secure boot patch is not yet clear
<willcooke> 2. NM bugs at Debian, trying to merge this week
<willcooke> 3. sponsored fqterm uploads, synced to Ubuntu
<willcooke> 4. batch translation review for gnome zh_CN
<willcooke> #topic hikiko
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: hikiko
<hikiko> hi
<hikiko> * 1st investigation/document for chromium on mir
<hikiko> * compiz:
<hikiko>   - fixed some compile errors on tests
<hikiko>   - fixing the branches that have been reviewed by Trevinho (moving win, expo gap)
<hikiko> * unity:
<hikiko>   - working  on the decorations code - changes that will be useful for different tasks
<hikiko>   - had almost fixed the switcher (alt+`) before my desktop crashed, tomorrow :p
<hikiko> * other:
<hikiko>   - debug an issue I had on the desktop and thought it was related to either lightdm or u7 gsettings, found out that its an xserver bug latest Y release
<hikiko> eof
<willcooke> thanks hikiko
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: Laney
<Laney> â¢ Upload livecd-rootfs to stop stripping .pyc on live images, announce to -release
<Laney> â¢ Some task finding, advice, review & sponsoring for FJK
<Laney> â¢ Turned autosync back on, babysat autopkgtest for that (managing capacity and handling emergent issues)
<Laney> â¢ Got some informal training in autopkgtest tasks from p_itti
<Laney> â¢ Poked a bit at u-s-d's xsettings manager not working in Z (1639658)
<Laney> â¢ Worked much more on asgen charm, implemented external storage, getting ready to import existing data so that the new version can be deployed
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> :) thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic qengho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: qengho
<qengho> * Cr 54 still in progress. All 32-bit arches broken. We don't cross-compile. Ups
<qengho> tream does. :(
<qengho> That's pretty much it. All my time.
<qengho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks qengho, good luck
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ debugged versions' script erroring out after the url updates done by j_bicha
<seb128> â¢ helped flexidotong to fix the update-manager details view having an incorrect height with the new gtk
<seb128> â¢ triaged recent nautilus bugs
<seb128> â¢ NEW queue reviews
<seb128> â¢ discussed/verified g-s-snap SRU
<seb128> â¢ reviewed/cleaned up some items from the sponsoring queue, not quite a full shift though
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128!
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<seb128> zZZzz ;-)
<willcooke> he was here earlier, let's come back
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: TheMuso
<willcooke> * Uploaded an SRU for bug 1574324 for xenial and yakkety. Testing seems favourable so far, will get fresh installs set up in coming days to test myself.
<willcooke> * Still trying to reliably reproduce bluetooth profile switching issues on xenial at least. No luck so far.
<willcooke> * Started going through the patches we carry for Pulseaudio, some of which are to work around issues that may no longer exist. Will start to test these in the coming week.
<willcooke> * More package merges for zesty.
<ubot5`> bug 1574324 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "pulseaudio crashes when connecting to bluetooth headphones (due to ubuntu changes?)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574324
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Backported cups-browsed-hang-on-shutdown fixes to the Xenial package for an SRU (bug 1638986).
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Further work on IPP Everywhere support.
<tkamppeter> - cups: Tested IPP Everywhere PPD generator of CUPS with non-IPP-Everywhere printers getting broken PPDs. Reported bug upstream.
<tkamppeter> - Snappy: Created VM running Ubuntu Core 16.
<ubot5`> bug 1638986 in cups-filters (Ubuntu Xenial) "cups/cups-browsed causing delay in shutdown (16.04)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1638986
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<tkamppeter> Some picture of The Hague: https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8150277390/albums/the-hague
<willcooke> :D thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: Trevinho
<Trevinho> Â· Some reviews of compiz and unity branches
<Trevinho> Â· Landed new unity and compiz in zeisty
<Trevinho> Â· Fixed icon theme update on lockscreen (causing indicators to have a wrong icon)
<Trevinho> Â· Attended the italian LoCO meeting (ubuntu-it meeting with snapping session JAM, and mir porting)
<Trevinho> Â· Snapped bucklespring
<Trevinho> Â· Snapped Remmina (including freerdp)
<Trevinho> Â· Proposed some changes to desktop-launchers (and reported various snap-world bugs)
<Trevinho> Â· Some fixes in unity8 indicators
<Trevinho> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho
<willcooke> did you push your snapcraft yamls to the playpen?
<willcooke> if not, please do!
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - snapd-qt patch complete - awaiting review
<willcooke> - gnome-software 3.22 released to zesty - patches updated
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> #1 Code Reviews
<andyrock> #2 Updated branch lp:~azzar1/unity/properly-handle-copy-dialog
<andyrock> #3 Fixed double lock issue lp:~azzar1/unity/fix-double-lock
<andyrock> #4 Some debugging for lp:1635625 and workaround proposed (but Marco found another one)
<andyrock> eof
<willcooke> thanks andyrock!
<willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: Sweet5hark
<willcooke> is he back?
<seb128> lp 1635625
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1635625 in unity (Ubuntu) "Some indicator icons are missing after unlocking the screen" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1635625
 * Sweet5hark is back. confused by wintertime.
<Sweet5hark> - building snaps on lp
<Sweet5hark> - bumped to 5.2.3 snap and deb
<flexiondotorg> ^ is brilliant
<Sweet5hark> - started armhf and i386 builds (untested so far)
<Sweet5hark> - netzpolitischer Kongress in berlin (Gruene)
<Sweet5hark> - backporting to LTS
<Sweet5hark> - thats it IIRC
<Sweet5hark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2016-11-08 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Anyone got news?
<flexiondotorg> Not news, but a question.
<flexiondotorg> I've been working on LP: #1631208
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1631208 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Tabs in Firefox dialogs are not rendered (for add-on options & Certificate Viewer)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631208
<flexiondotorg> Which required a refactoring of notebooks in general. And that changes the general appearance of notebooks/tabs.
<flexiondotorg> In order to support Firefox new visual elements are introduced.
<flexiondotorg> Should I continue with FF support now as is, or should we consider patching FF to introduce bespoke selectors.
<flexiondotorg> Right now it seems FF > 49 is reliant on frames for drawing boarders.
<flexiondotorg> Which requires work around in some traditional GTK applications.
<attente> isn't there a way to theme individual apps by name?
<Laney> no
<Laney> there's an upstream bug for firefox though
<Laney> I think it'd be a good idea to explain the problem there and ask if they would accept doing that
<attente> i could've sworn there were app-specific selectors in the theming code...
<Laney> Only if the application has done something
<willcooke> bear in mind that Firefox will become a snap Real Soon Now - so any changes to Ffox will need to be upstreamed rather than patched by us.
<flexiondotorg> attente, There are app specific selectors for gedit and gnome-terminal.
<flexiondotorg> But for frame in general, there are not.
<attente> oh i see...
<Laney> You can sometimes pick widgets by name
<flexiondotorg> OK, I think I;ll split the FF notebook change out.
<flexiondotorg> ANd just submit an MP for the gedit and gnome-terminal stuff.
<Laney> I don't think that's a particularly great idea because they are usually implementation details and might break at any time
<Laney> Firefox might be willing to guarantee a CSS class or something
<flexiondotorg> To be clear, remove the FF changes to a separate branch for now.
<flexiondotorg> And get the other issues closed out.
<flexiondotorg> I'll then progress FF issues upstream.
<flexiondotorg> Laney, yep. Ideally their own class(es).
<flexiondotorg> Thanks guys.
<willcooke> thanks flexiondotorg
<Laney> It's kind of crap to have to have app-specific code
<Laney> In an ideal world they would just directly look the same
<flexiondotorg> Agreed.
<willcooke> any more for anymore? 5... 4...
<Laney> I guess they don't directly use GTK widgets though - so it might be the best we can get.
<Laney> Ta
<flexiondotorg> Laney, Correct, they do not.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, what are those snappy upstream advocacy guidelines? something we should all read?
<willcooke> oki, let's wrap - we can continue afterwards if needed
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Eventually, yes.
<willcooke> oops, sorry seb128
<flexiondotorg> But they'll get refined through use.
<seb128> are we being transformed in marketing team sidekicks? ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, no worry, can be an after meeting discussing, it's just the first time I read that we have advocacy material and are supposed to follow it
<flexiondotorg> Everyone eventually ;-)
<willcooke> oki, closing meeting - please carry on as needed
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  8 15:56:25 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2016/ubuntu-desktop.2016-11-08-15.30.moin.txt
<flexiondotorg> seb128, It is not marketing exactly.
<flexiondotorg> Developer to developer discussions.
<seb128> k
<flexiondotorg> When it become a sales exercise there is a hand off :-)
<seb128> well I didn't know we had a specific strategy to learn
<seb128> flexiondotorg, thanks
<flexiondotorg> np
<willcooke> tkamppeter, great pic of the canal.  Was that on the way to team dinner?
<attente> did the synaptics driver break for anyone?
<flexiondotorg> attente, What release?
<attente> flexiondotorg: z
<attente> i just did an update
<flexiondotorg> I'll tell you tomorrow, re-install a test machine that has a touchpad.
<flexiondotorg> Catch you all tomorrow desktopers
<seb128> flexiondotorg, have a nice evening!
<willcooke> night flexiondotorg
<Laney> night from me too
<seb128> night Laney
<seb128> calling it a day as well
<seb128> good night desktopers
<willcooke> night all
<attente> flexiondotorg: hey, just wanted to let you know don't worry about the touchpad testing. seems all i needed was to make a custom libinput config in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d
<flexiondotorg> OK.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-09
<hikiko> Good morning
<duflu> Morning hikiko
<hikiko>  hi duflu...
<hikiko> Trump
<duflu> Yeah
<duflu> Enough said
<hikiko> Yup :|
<duflu> The system's not rigged
<RAOF> Well...
<RAOF> I wouldn't exactly say that. But it was never rigged *against* Trump.
<hikiko> lol
<hikiko> trump voters @tv are holding the trump signs upside down "make america great again" etc
<pitti> Good morning
<hikiko> duflu, just for you: https://github.com/samshadwell/TrumpScript
<duflu> hikiko: Thanks. Prepare for TrumpScript 2.0 which includes new keywords "backflip" and "shiftleft".
<hikiko> haha :)
<Sweet5hark> moin
<pitti> hey Sweet5hark
<Sweet5hark> pitti: heya.
<Sweet5hark> i see it was wise to switch off that horrorshow yesterday when at 2am I had the feeling I saw brexit2.
<pitti> yeah, we'll have that horror show for 4 years, no hurry
<willcooke> morning all
<Sweet5hark> pitti: I fully feel that Max Liebermann quote about eating and puking ...
<Sweet5hark> willcooke: morning
<pitti> Sweet5hark: that apparently evaded me
<Sweet5hark> pitti: https://de.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Liebermann
<pitti> oh yes, that!
<pitti> what I do get is the frustration about politics and globalization only working for the top 10%
<pitti> (not just in the US, same in Europe)
<pitti> what I don't get is how you can expect one such very capitalist to do anything about it, even less so if he's an a***ole
<Sweet5hark> pitti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc
<Laney> hullo
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> pitti: hmm
<Laney> feels like June 24 again
<pitti> Laney: feels worse to me, TBH
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<pitti> bad morning to you too!
<didrocks> or rather, sad morning
<seb128> you don't like for america to be great again? ;-)
<pitti> I'm not sure if that guy even realized that Mexico is part of America too :)
<didrocks> great*ly* in the sh**
<flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers. It's another day in paradise.
<willcooke> who wants in my underground bunker?
 * duflu is already digging
<willcooke> ha, we'll meet in the middle - it will be safe there
<pitti> a bit hot maybe
<willcooke> probably no more than the surface in about 3 weeks
<duflu> I was going to go there...
<Laney> pitti: I should think it seems different from the inside
<Laney> anyyyyyyyyyway
<Laney> hi didrocks seb128 flexiondotorg willcooke & duflu
<duflu> Morning laney
<didrocks> hey hey Laney!
<Laney> /bin/sh will never change and disappoint me
 * didrocks reminds Laney the bash -> dash transition
 * pitti thinks that this is what Laney thought of
<Laney> didrocks: make posix great again
<didrocks> \o/
<pitti> so the US now has *two* nine-elevens
<duflu> pitti: Indeed I haven't felt like this since 15 years ago
<duflu> Gonna try the Jono solution and cook a pile of veges to get my mind off it
<pitti> somehow history has an odd imbalance towards the 9th November (1918, 1933, 1989)
<pitti> and now 2016
<Sweet5hark> pitti: yep, was thinking of that. first time though its not germany fscking things up on that day though ..
<duflu> Also everything is failing in CI for a different reason each time, plus my house has been shaking non-stop for two days due to earthworks somewhere nearby
<pitti> Sweet5hark: well, 1989 was not fsck :)
 * duflu is going insane
<pitti> and neither 1918 really
<Sweet5hark> pitti: true.
<davmor2> Morning all
<pitti> Sweet5hark: wow, 1848 and 1923 too! http://www.bpb.de/politik/hintergrund-aktuell/69545/der-9-november-09-11-2012
<Sweet5hark> pitti: yep
<Sweet5hark> pitti: although the 1848 one is a bit artificial as the whole year was a big mess in german history.
<seb128> wonder if Sanders would have done better
<seb128> oh well, no point debatting that
<Sweet5hark> pitti: FWIW, 1923, 1933 where the reason for making 0ct-03 the national holiday and not nov-09.
<Sweet5hark> eh, 1938, not 1933
<andyrock> good morning
<willcooke> hey andyrock
<Sweet5hark> willcooke, flexiondotorg, Laney: on a positive note, the GBP is making significant gains against the USD again for the first time since brexit.
<Laney> Sweet5hark: that's bad for my shares!
<Sweet5hark> Laney: show some patriotism! here is some precious marmite for that.
<Sweet5hark> pitti: oh, another nov-09: 1799 napoleon couped and killed one of the first modern republics ...
<Laney> wah, my lxc container is not starting for some reason
<pitti> Laney: zesty? known
<Laney> host?
<pitti> Laney: https://github.com/lxc/lxc/issues/1280; I uploaded systemd 232-3 with a workaround this morning, but will still take some time to sync
<Laney> pitti: I mean: zesty host
<pitti> Laney: local workaround: boot with systemd.legacy_systemd_cgroup_controller in the kernel cmdline
<Laney> pitti: ah right, I have
<Laney> Nov 09 11:25:50 raleigh.local PAM-CGFS[9686]: Corrupt /proc/self/cgroup
<pitti> right, lxc and friends don't yet deal with systemd using the unified hierarchy for itself; so I reverted this for now
<Laney> nod
<pitti> gotta make the devel release at least a *bit* exciting :)
<Laney> glad it was known so I didn't waste ages trying to understand :P
<pitti> told stgraber
 * Laney is building the new systemd instead
<Laney> that machine is remote atm so it's mildly annoying to change kernel cmdline
<pitti> oh, ok
<pitti> /etc/default/grub :)
<Laney> ya
<Laney> sbuild; dcmd --deb sudo dpkg -iO ftw
<pitti> "dcmd"?
<pitti> wow, I learned something new today
<Laney> \o/
<pitti> (I use dpkg -iO *.deb, which by and large should do the same, unless you have other builds in your build-tree/ ?)
<Laney> there's always new tools to discover
<Laney> yeah, often the cwd directory is cluttered
 * Laney is disorganised
<Laney> dcmd scp ... is also quite nice
<Laney> pitti: OOI, do you know what might have fixed the lightdm logind session not closing in the new systemd?
<pitti> my build-tree is just in /tmp/, so it's necessarily clean most of the time :)
<pitti> Laney: no idea, I'm afraid; the systemd port didn't even land yet
<Laney> ah well
<pitti> Laney: but the bug followup actually said that it still seems to happen sometimes?
<pitti> I'll check later if I can reproduce by rebooting 20 times or so
<Laney> not to me and not to m_uktupavels and not to you, could just be a bad reproducer
 * Laney tried lots of times up/downgrading systemd to check it really was that
<Laney> was quite consistent
<Laney> more attempts can't hurt though :)
<qengho> Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
<qengho> G'morning, all.
<willcooke> hey qengho
<Sweet5hark> qengho: good morning Florida. *sternlook*
 * flexiondotorg seeks out food.
 * flexiondotorg returns.
<attente> kenvandine: hi! do you have time to look at content-hub-glib? i can help out if you need to get it running on your machine
<xnox> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1611/meeting/22714/architecture-discussions/
<kenvandine> attente, sorry... not yet, been swamped
<kenvandine> attente, can we get it in a silo along with your gtk branch?
<attente> kenvandine: sure, but what do you need from me there? should i upload packages to a ppa?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> let me create a silo
<kenvandine> and you can upload the packages to the silo ppa
<kenvandine> attente, give me a few
<attente> kenvandine: sure, thanks
<kenvandine> attente, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2178/
<kenvandine> upload packages for vivid, xenial and zesty
<kenvandine> actually... i wonder if we care about vivid for that
<kenvandine> maybe just xenial and zesty for now
<attente> sounds good
<kenvandine> attente, ^^
<kenvandine> builds are failing in the silo
<kenvandine> attente, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/292796272/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.content-hub_0.2+15.04.20161109-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<attente> kenvandine: ok, thanks
<attente> kenvandine: does that mean we are building for vivid? is that intended?
<kenvandine> content-hub needs to
<attente> ok, i'll fix that
<kenvandine> attente, it failed on xenial and zesty too
<kenvandine> but i think it was a test failure
<kenvandine> not build
<seb128> k, need to go for some errands, have a nice evening desktopers!
<willcooke> cya seb128
<attente> kenvandine: are there any logs for those?
<flexiondotorg> Night seb128
<kenvandine> attente, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/292796553/buildlog_ubuntu-zesty-amd64.content-hub_0.2+17.04.20161109-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> bye willcooke flexiondotorg, nice evening desktopers
<kenvandine> attente, it's failing for all arches in one way or another on zesty, xenial and vivid :)
<attente> :'(
<attente> kenvandine: what's the easiest way to replicate the build process locally?
<kenvandine> sbuild or pbuilder i guess
<kenvandine> it built locally for me, but i didn't try in sbuild
<willcooke> nigth all
<willcooke> *night
<attente> hikiko: hey, are you around?
<hikiko> attente,
<hikiko> hi
<hikiko> I am now
<attente> hi :)
<attente> i was just wondering what you used to capture the video for your lightning talk at the sprint in the hague
<hikiko> for the moving windows I used gtk-recordmydesktop
<hikiko> will used the virtualbox recording tool for the other
<hikiko> but there was another one that is good give me a second
<hikiko> kazam that's it
<hikiko> and vokoscreen was good if I remember
<hikiko> but I prefer gtk-recordmydesktop
<attente> hikiko: ok, thanks!
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-10
<pitti> Good morning
<flexiondotorg> Morning pitti
<pitti> hey flexiondotorg, how is it going?
<flexiondotorg> All good thanks. Yourself?
<hikiko> hey all :
<hikiko> :)
 * hikiko forgot to be social today :/
<hikiko> :p
<pitti> hey hikiko, how are you?
<pitti> flexiondotorg: good, thanks! (sorry, phone rang, then I forgot)
<hikiko> hi pitti and flexiondotorg :)
<hikiko> i am good, well tired... :) you?
<Laney> hey!
<pitti> good morning Laney!
<Laney> bonjour pitti
<Laney> how are you?
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney, hikiko
<pitti> Laney: I'm great, thanks! a little groggy from basketball, but again the good kind
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<flexiondotorg> seb128, o/
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128
<hikiko> hi Laney seb128 :)
<seb128> hey pitti hikiko Laney
<seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Coping. Although off to the hospital for an hour or so later.
<flexiondotorg> Much pain :-(
<hikiko> :/
<Laney> pitti: indeed - feeling the same from climbing last night :-)
<Laney> hi seb128 flexiondotorg & hikiko
 * Laney gives flexiondotorg a sports massage
<seb128> flexiondotorg, get better!
<seb128> Laney, climbing night ftw!
<Laney> seb128: the best nights!
<flexiondotorg> I'm sure I be fine in a few days.
<pitti> flexiondotorg: urgh, all the best!
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Have you start on the GTK platform snap?
<desrt> things that GDBus subtree dispatching was not designed for:
<desrt>  - security
<desrt> (eof)
<flexiondotorg> That's unfortuante.
<desrt> preventing apps about finding out about other apps in the most natural way may not be possible
<desrt> (but in this case "finding out" means only "can see that they exist")
<seb128> flexiondotorg, not really, I started played with building snap using debs from another serie and looking at what should be included and at the launcher script, but I didn't try to build one yet
<seb128> flexiondotorg, likely for next week
<seb128> why?
<flexiondotorg> I've been reflecting on what we discussed at the sprint.
<flexiondotorg> Specifically build it from debs.
<flexiondotorg> I've taken another look at what robert started, which builds entire from source.
<flexiondotorg> IIRC we opted for building from debs because we inherit the distro patches, correct?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> it's also easier to iterate
<flexiondotorg> In what sense?
<desrt> in the sense that we have to do the deb anyway, and all that infra is already there
<flexiondotorg> OK
<desrt> vs. figuring out a way to pull/configure/rebuild the tarball from upstream
<flexiondotorg> desrt, Well that is largely solved.
<desrt> it is solved for largely trivial projects :p
<desrt> gtk is a beast
<Laney>   
<desrt> morning laney
<Laney> that was the first 0 characters of "hi desrt"
<flexiondotorg> seb128, Ping me when you make a start.
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to help.
<flexiondotorg> I just wanted to discuss the approach again before we start.
<seb128> flexiondotorg, k, it might be tomorrow or next week
<flexiondotorg> Cool.
<willcooke> hi all.  Here, but not here.
<Laney> the ghost of willcooke
<willcooke> indeed!
<willcooke> It's odd, when you're sick but work from home.  Like, where do you go?
<willcooke> Figured I might as well sit in from of the compuiter for a bit
<Laney> my mum just sent me a picture of her day off activity
<Laney> ...
<Laney> watching jeremy kyle
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> Followed by Homes Under The Hammer?
<Laney> that guy that eats loads of food
<Laney> i think she's actually going out
<Laney> hopefully /o\
<FJKong_> when I tried to upload some package to mentors.debian.net, due to bad network, sometimes it will broken and next when I tried to upload it will show some error like
<FJKong_> This existing file may have been previously uploaded partially.
<FJKong_>        For official Debian upload queues, the dcut(1) utility can be
<FJKong_>        used to remove this file, and after an acknowledgement mail is
<FJKong_>        received in response to dcut, the upload can be re-initiated.
<FJKong_> how to delete privious broken file?
<Laney> FJKong_: ask in #debian-mentors on OFTC
<Laney> don't know if dcut works there
<FJKong_> seems no
<FJKong_> I can't connect to irc.debian.org
<Laney> try irc.oftc.net
<FJKong_> Laney: found the reason, Great f*re w*ll block it
<Laney> FJKong_: no chinese gimpnet servers?
<Laney> try tor, if that works for you
<desrt> now for something nice about GDBus: if you structure your program in a nice way, you can avoid ever having to call g_bus_get()
<flexiondotorg> Laney, any chance you can take a look at the debdiffs I've added to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1576424
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1576424 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Gimp crashes with text tool & caps lock" [High,In progress]
<flexiondotorg> Laney if you're insterested in testing the fixes for scrolled windows in update-manager and aptdaemon, you can use Yakkety.
<flexiondotorg> Enable yakkety-proposed to get the patched update-manager.
<flexiondotorg> Patch aptdaemon is in this PPA - https://launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/+archive/ubuntu/sru
<flexiondotorg> I've just tested on a clean install, all seems good to me.
<flexiondotorg> Also in that PPA is a patch Deja Dup, also working fine.
<flexiondotorg> Just going to submit the merge proposal for that.
<desrt> i take it back: there is a small detail in the way subtrees are implemented that solves the security issue.  nice.
<desrt> returning NULL vs. returning an empty array has two different meanings.
<Laney> flexiondotorg: k, will look
<Laney> desrt: having fun?
<desrt> yup.
<desrt> things are starting to come together in a nice and completely half-baked way
<desrt> the proxy will work first for flatpak, but not securely (since their dbus filtering is primitive) and not at all for snaps (since the apparmor patches are still missing)
<desrt> but at least it will be enough to convince the security team that the apparmor patches are really the only thing standing in the way
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Laney I'm off the to the hospital. Back a bit later...
<Laney> gl
<willcooke> flexiondotorg, tata
<flexiondotorg> Laney, bug updated and MP submitted for deja-dup - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deja-dup/+bug/1623835
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1623835 in deja-dup (Ubuntu) "Scrolled Windows in backup/restore progress are too small to read" [Low,In progress]
 * davmor2 hugs flexiondotorg 
<davmor2> it's only a minor issue but it is so annoying :)
<andyrock> good afternoon
<seb128> good afternoon desktopers
 * Laney nods seb128 
<seb128> hey Laney ;-)
<Laney> home still there?
 * flexiondotorg returns
<Laney> seb128: want to play a fun game of "archive admin"? :-)
 * Laney nods flexiondotorg 
<Laney> are you healed?
<Laney> & that you survived the NHS death panel
<flexiondotorg> Laney, nope but I have been given the magic healing potions.
<Laney> & hope
<Laney> *
 * Laney IRC bad
<Laney> http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Down
<seb128> Laney, what do you want to do the archive now? ;-)
<Laney> seb128: I want to get http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#ldc to migrate
<Laney> needs some arch removals
<Laney> ximion will be happy, he's been nagging me for ages
 * Laney rebootstrapped it yesterday
<attente> don't understand why my test is so flaky :(
<ogra_> attente, donald trump ...
<attente> make testing flake again
<seb128> Laney, just removing the ldc binaries from zesty release pocket on ppc and ppc64el?
<Laney> seb128: checking for rdeps, second
<Laney> got distracted...
 * Laney coughs
<seb128> Laney, k, I was about to delete those, but good idea to check those ;-)
<seb128> need to go for some small errands, deleting those once I'm back
<Laney> seb128: I think it's ldc (all arch-specific binaries) powerpc + ppc64el and libmustache-d-dev ppc64el
<attente> kenvandine: hi, i'm running into some problems with content-hub's testing framework and i'm not sure what to do
<attente> kenvandine: http://paste.debian.net/plain/894344 with this diff on current trunk i get: https://paste.debian.net/plain/894345
<attente> the duplicate test fails sometimes but i can't tell why. there doesn't seem to be any missing teardown from what i can tell
<kenvandine> attente, any other output from the test?
<kenvandine> attente, try commenting out the handler test
<kenvandine> attente, i'm wondering why this is in the log
<kenvandine> Activating service name='com.ubuntu.content.dbus.Service'
<kenvandine> shouldn't be activating that during the tests
<kenvandine> and isn't for me
<attente> yeah... i am very confused
<attente> also, realized i forgot to set the CONTENT_HUB_TESTING variable for the second test, but that didn't affect the outcome
<kenvandine> attente, this is a local build right?
<attente> kenvandine: yes. i wonder if maybe my ccache is configured wrong or something
<attente> going to try again making sure everything is clean
<kenvandine> attente, ok
<kenvandine> attente, it passes locally for me in your branch
<kenvandine> the qml test fails... which shouldn't be related to your branch
<kenvandine> oh... i don't have your new test :)
<attente> kenvandine: yeah the new test is supposed to match what you're already doing for the other ones instead of dbus activating the installed service
<Laney> flexiondotorg: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/small.png <- still small
<Laney> I added your SRU PPA, dist-upgraded and then rebooted
<flexiondotorg> Laney, OK. Does the VTE size increase as output is displayed?
<Laney> Nope
<flexiondotorg> Hmm, well I'm not seeing that here :-/
<flexiondotorg> If I expand the details during the download the vte behaves correctly.
<flexiondotorg> I'll setup a complete clean VM, rather than from my snapshot and test again.
<Laney> flexiondotorg: the ./gtk3-demo in src:aptdaemon works
<Laney> (I copied it out of the source tree so that it used the system's aptdaemon)
<attente> kenvandine: when you have time, could you please upload the content-hub-glib branch again to the silo and see if the tests run? i'm having a hard time getting any of them to run on my machine since i upgraded, even locally outside of sbuild
<kenvandine> attente, sure, so you've pushed your changes?
<attente> kenvandine: yes
<kenvandine> attente, done
<attente> kenvandine: thanks!
<seb128> hum, irc timeouted it seems
<seb128> Laney, did you get my msg asking for the confirmation of the binaries to delete?
<Laney> no
<seb128> bah
<Laney> :(
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> Laney, "ldc libphobos2-ldc-debug68 libphobos2-ldc-dev libphobos2-ldc68" on power/ppc64el and libmustache-d-dev on ppc64el?
<Laney> seb128: looks right to me
<Laney> thanks!
<seb128> k, done
<seb128> yw!
<seb128> let's see how that works out
 * willcooke -> dinner -> bed
<willcooke> l8r all
<Laney> nighty night
<seb128> night Laney
<flexiondotorg> Night.
<qengho> o/
<FJKong> morning desktop
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-11
<hikiko> hi
<pitti> Good morning
<flexiondotorg> Morning hikiko pitti
<davmor2> Morning all
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> sup suppington
<hikiko> hey pitti davmor2 willcooke flexiondotorg Laney desktopers
<Laney> hi hikiko
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> hey gals and guys!
<hikiko> hey :) tired.. but it's Friday :D
<hikiko> happy friday!
<hikiko> what about you Laney ?
<Laney> zzzzzzzzzzzzzleepy
<hikiko> :)
<Laney> we went to a "new" (2 years old) micro pub up the road last night though, which was nice
<Laney> they had 2 pub dogs
 * Laney made friends
<hikiko> hahaha
<Laney> one of them was a greyhound
<Laney> long and skinny legs
<Laney> hey pitti!
<Laney> are you well?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks; how about yourself?
<pitti> had a nice dinner at our favourite Italian place yesterday
<Laney> \o/
<pitti> and now having fun with bash
<Laney> looks quite nice outside
<pitti> bash: line 2: \: command not found
<Laney> would quite like to be crunching over some leaves
<Laney> oh yeah, I saw that, wtf
<pitti> ^ tests with all-proposed trip over that, seems the bash 4.4 in -proposed has changed something subtle
<pitti> currently tracking that down
<pitti> it only happens with the ssh runner, not with lxd/qemu
<flexiondotorg> Morning Laney
<flexiondotorg> Morning davmor2
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, o/
<flexiondotorg> willcooke, Recovered yet?
<willcooke> hey flexiondotorg - not really
<willcooke> still felling crappy
<willcooke> So I working on deciding on a text editor once and for all
<flexiondotorg> nano
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> I've used Gedit forever, so I thought I'd try one of these new fancy ones
<willcooke> Atom & VS Code used all my memory
<flexiondotorg> I use Geany.
<willcooke> Sublime costs 70 bucks
<flexiondotorg> Not new, but keeps out the way.
<willcooke> I'll try Geany
<willcooke> and then,well, vim
<flexiondotorg> Install the Geany plugins too.
<flexiondotorg> Lots of essential functionality in those.
<pitti> ooh, a vim vs. emacs flamebait? TGIF :)
<willcooke> :D
<pitti> vim is certainly the most expensive editor that I've ever used (I donated 100 bucks for it once), but well worth it
<hikiko> willcooke, https://youtu.be/ko1msmnc8-U
<hikiko> is this what you meant the other day for the alt + `?
<willcooke> hikiko, ooh, might be, hard to tell on a video.
<willcooke> hikiko, can I try it out on X?
<willcooke> hikiko, and will it be an option?
<hikiko> lol wait :) I just made an experiment, it can certainly be an option that's easy, you can try it if you give me some time to put this in a branch and upload to lp
<willcooke> hikiko, no hurry, not important
* willcooke changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<willcooke> but thanks!
<willcooke> err
<willcooke> how did I change the topic
<hikiko> maybe you typed at the topic window instead of the input window if you use hexchat or xchat
<hikiko> hexchat :)
<davmor2> hexchat ftw
<hikiko> +1
<hikiko> but I have a question on that davmor2 willcooke
 * davmor2 hides
<hikiko> are you able to use something like "minimize to tray" on unity?
<hikiko> I installed the hexchat indicator and it doesn't work if I close the hexchat window hexchat exits
<davmor2> hikiko: nope but you can minimise hexchat and access it via the indicator
<davmor2> hikiko: indicators are not systrays
<hikiko> yup...
<hikiko> there was an indicator-systray in the past though
<hikiko> but it doesn't work in 16.04
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<hikiko> hi seb128
<flexiondotorg> Morning seb128
<willcooke> hey seb128,
<seb128> is 11th of novembre only a vac in France?
 * seb128 is surprised to see so much activity here today
<willcooke> think so
<davmor2> seb128: yes we just remember for 2 whole minutes at 11:00
<hikiko> maybe italy too
<hikiko> in*
<pitti> seb128: no, it's also an US holiday (Veteran's day)
<seb128> seems it's an holiday in Belgium as well
<seb128> seems it's St Martin's day in Germany
<seb128> pitti, should be off for you!
<pitti> you are right! /disconnect -all
<pitti> seb128: I will actually stop early today, need to go to Munich this afternoon, we have a concert in the evening
<pitti> Bullet for my Valentine
<seb128> oh, nice, whose?
<seb128> enjoy!
 * Laney remembers them from the school days!
<pitti> seb128: I don't know them much really, but it's one of Annett's current favorites
<pitti> seb128: I  think it's a little too far into the "heavy" metal side for my taste, but some mosh pit with headbanging is great every now and then :)
 * pitti is really into Nightwish when it comes to Metal, that's much more my style
<seb128> I don't know them either afaik (maybe I know some of their songs if I hear them though)
<seb128> I've some albums of Nightwish, I like their sound but it's a bit too noisy to my taste
<seb128> it's fine every now and then for a bit
<pitti> seb128: ah, which ones?
<seb128> oceanborn and over the hills and far
<pitti> Tarja was one of a kind, but I really made my peace with Floor, she's amazing (and I was surprised to find that "Endless Forms" became my favorite album actually)
<seb128> you seem to know them better than me ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I like their wide spectrum -- from "Walking in the air" (on Oceanborn) to "Stargazers" it's between opera and headbanging :)
<seb128> yeah, I like the "opera" side
<seb128> but it's still too "noisy" for me at times
 * seb128 likes to relax with music
<pitti> seb128: I think you might like "Angels fall first" (old album) and "Endless forms" (newest one) then
<pitti> seb128: ah, yes; it's a bit too "exciting" for listening at work; I like that while travelling or running
<seb128> thanks for the recommendations, I don't know them I think but I'm adding them to my list of things to try listening to!
<flocculant> seb128: and that is a list that should always grow :)
<Saviq> willcooke, really glad we reverted the "Ctrl+F limits searches to current folder on remote shares", can we also revert the label that still says we do filter? :)
<willcooke> Saviq, are you talking about Nautilus?
<Saviq> willcooke, yes, sorry
<willcooke> kk, let see what Laney and|or seb128 think ^
<Saviq> I'm hoping seb128 thinks what to eat next, it's a holiday there? ;)
<willcooke> Saviq, he never rests
<Laney> If a label is wrong then I don't see why we would reject such a fix
 * Saviq files bug
<Saviq> ok now I'm confused
<Saviq> now it searches in one level again
<Saviq> confused more
<Saviq> there's one folder it seems to search through, others it searches just one level...
<Laney> I don't remember any patch to change this behaviour, fwiw
<seb128> Saviq, hey, I didn't look at the details of what the new nautilus is doing, but if you see bugs or behaviour changes that are confusing feel free to report those
<Saviq> seb128, yeah I will, I know they disabled the deep Ctrl+F for remote shares, but just noticed it working in one of mine...
<seb128> on what protocol?
<seb128> could be that it (wrongly?) consider the folder local
<pitti> bye everyone! need to leave early today, so enjoy the weekend!
<andyrock> hey all
<Laney> bye pitti!
<seb128> pitti, enjoy your w.e!
<seb128> hey andyrock
<seb128> andyrock, happy friday!
<flexiondotorg> .me gets lunch
<davmor2> Laney: question why are many apps showing global and local window menus in Zesty?
<attente> davmor2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1637758
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1637758 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "lightdm greeter session not properly shut down at login" [Undecided,Invalid]
 * Laney tests asgen for -updates -proposed -backports -security (not release) 
<Laney> huh
<Laney> just picked up a piece of paper and there was a hugely expanded samsung phone battery chillaxing underneath it
<Laney> nighty night
<Laney> happy weekend!
<willcooke> night all
<seb128> have a nice w.e Laney & desktopers!
<attente> kenvandine: hi, i'm trying to dput to the silo but getting rejected since i don't have rights
<attente> (gtk package that will allow you to test the copy-paste there)
<flexiondotorg> Night all.
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-11-13
<a1fa> anybody else having https cert issues after recent updates?
<a1fa> ERR_CERTIFICATE_TRANSPARENCY_REQUIRED
<a1fa> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/1641380
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1641380 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium-browser: ERR_CERTIFICATE_TRANSPARENCY_REQUIRED for Symantec certs" [Critical,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-06
<jbicha> duflu: good morning
<jbicha> are you interested in merging mpv for the libva transition in bionic?
<jbicha> also we had someone complaining about window decorations for mpv (but I don't use mpv) https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2376602
<duflu> jbicha, maybe... and yeah lack of server side window decorations is a Wayland "feature" for now
<JanC> jbicha / duflu: people can get window decorations for mpv on Wayland by adding a 'vo=x11' line in '~/.config/mpv/mpv.conf', which makes it use XWayland  :)
<JanC> it's not perfect, but it works...
<jbicha> that user claimed that he was sure he was using Wayland mpv with decorations on Arch
<JanC> well, I switched from Wayland back to X11 because it has too many bugs still...
<duflu> JanC, if I recall correctly that will disable hardware acceleration support. Because Xwayland only supports DRI3 and VAAPI only supports DRI2
<duflu> So not an option we can recommend
<JanC> hm, I think mpv said it was using vaapi, but I'm not 100% sure
<duflu> JanC, interesting. Please do check
<JanC> maybe only for decoding
<duflu> JanC, or try just comparing CPU usage in 'top'
<duflu> *and* try just comparing CPU usage in 'top
<duflu> '
<JanC> I might be totally wrong, but IIRC VAAPI can decode straight to video memory, or into a buffer, so possibly they use VAAPI for decoding, then copy to the screen buffer, or something?
<JanC> which would of course cause higher CPU too
<JanC> or they use OpenGL and VAAPI decodes into an OpenGL buffer (or whatever it's called)
<JanC> duflu: if I remember next time I (have to) reboot I'll try
<JanC> but I'm happy I don't have to reboot every 1-3 days as with Wayland  :P
<JanC> on X11
<duflu> JanC, yes all VAAPI use cases decode straight into video memory. At least the ones we use. There is no distinction there
<duflu> One of the reasons why we never had hardware accelerated video decoding till 17.10 was that nobody knew or could tell if it was ON or OFF already. So I have tried to cover that here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntelQuickSyncVideo
<duflu> Essentially you should always have single digit CPU usage or close to it. If not, then something still needs improving
<JanC> on Wayland the desktop gets unusably slow very quickly (sometimes after less than a day), and if I don't reboot myself in that case it hangs at some point with "Key repeat discarded, Wayland compositor doesn't seem to be processing events fast enough!" errors in dmesg
<JanC> (I still have to file a bug about that)
<JanC> "hangs" = doesn't update the screen; apps keep running, as e.g. music keeps playing
<duflu> JanC, OK that's a completely different topic.... if you find that relates to memory usage of the gnome-shell process then subscribe here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1672297
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1672297 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell uses lots of memory, and grows over time" [High,Triaged]
<JanC> I'm not sure what causes it (I switched to X11 to see if it was Wayland-only, and that was 8 days ago ;) )
<JanC> I'll look at that bug and see if I can confirm it's related, but that was just to explain why I haven't been using Wayland while trying to get some work done :)
<JanC> mpv has some "vaapi-copy" mode for hardware decoding ("copies video back into system RAM (Linux with Intel  GPUs only)" according to the manpage)
<JanC> I'm not sure exactly what it does or how it works  :)
<roasted> a 4k video with vaapi results in about 3% CPU usage on an i5 7200u processor
<roasted> same video with vaapi-copy, 19%
<roasted> no hardware accel (software only), ~60%
<roasted> not to mention my battery life went from 18 hours (idle) to 14:30 using vaapi, and 7:30 using software accel (no hardware accel)
<roasted> I was pretty certain I had window decorations working with mpv in Antergos + Wayland and was using gpu-context=wayland in my mpv.conf, but later I began to get errors when I launched mpv with gpu-context=wayland in mpv.conf
<roasted> I have no idea if I was troubleshooting too much at once and messed up my interpretation or if I got updates later that made it different, I'm not sure.
<duflu> Yes roughly speaking, vaapi is an order of magnitude more efficient than vaapi-copy, and vaapi-copy another order of magnitude more efficient than software
<roasted> The only downside I've seen is some youtube videos impose heavy gray artifacts when using vaapi. Not all, but some.
<roasted> https://i.imgur.com/kBd3wf1.png
<roasted> for local videos, and most online videos, it's brilliant.
<JanC> that looks like there might have been video corruption
<roasted> could be. If I comment out vaapi lines in my mpv.conf and rerun the same video in mpv, it's fine.
<JanC> I mean, dropped frames, or such
<roasted> albeit with my proc zooming but it functions
<duflu> roasted, I will try to look into the grey corruption this week
<roasted> regarding the GTK3 patch, it was my understanding that the patch introduces SSD via a KDE Protocol, thus allowing Wayland and apps like MPV to coexist.
<roasted> my confusion that sparked the forum post was the fact that I didn't see anything really change.
<roasted> I can bounce over to my Antergos partition and re-test then. I've been meaning to take another look sometime tonight. But if it's broken there then it stands to reason it could be a waiting for upstream thing yet.
<roasted> duflu: pardon my ignorance, are you an mpv dev? mpv packager for ubuntu?
<duflu> roasted, presently jack of all trades, and specifically responsible for Ubuntu hardware acceleration across the board
<roasted> ah. well. kudos. :) loving it.
<duflu> Not an upstream mpv dev
<duflu> roasted, cool. Me too. I think people fail to realize it's not just about using less power, but also that modern 4K videos are simply unplayable without it
<duflu> (modern = H.265/HEVC)
<roasted> yeah. I hear you. I've been less-than-thrilled by some projects (ahem, mpv) insistance on pushing forth software acceleration
<roasted> I've shot a lot of 4k video over the last week and it's certainly a necessity at this point
<duflu> Interestingly somewhat by luck it's a technology feature Ubuntu introduced at about the same time as Apple did in High Sierra
<JanC> I guess the grey corruption stuff could also happen when VAAPI doesn't implement some decoder feature, or implements it incorrectly
<roasted> duflu: if there's anything within the capabilities of a "pretty fluent end-user" that I can do to test or help out regarding this please ping me. :)
<duflu> roasted, OK thanks. Actually if you have raw HEVC files from an iPhone 8/X or from a GoPro Hero6 I would like some for testing
<roasted> duflu: FYI, that gray artifact stuff, I noticed it happening a lot on youtube's more popular/top charted/main page vevo videos. One of Taylor Swift's recent music videos was where I snapped that imgur shot.
<roasted> well, dang. not an iphone user, and a gopro is on my christmas list. :(
<roasted> I just have a moto g5 atm
<duflu> Such is the modern era; everything is on YouTube and people don't share their actual files. So I haven't found any to test with
<roasted> I don't even know anybody with an iphone, sans a few users on very old models
<roasted> nothing recent though
<JanC> roasted: probably important to know what video quality you were playing too...
<JanC> as YT usually has many
<roasted> JanC: playing? I'm not sure. I didn't set anything in particular in my mpv.conf
<roasted> I wonder what mpv in 17.10 repos && what mc3man's PPA of mpv default to
<JanC> IIRC mpv uses the highest by default
<JanC> for some value of "highest"
<JanC> or maybe youtube-dl's default, which is that
<roasted> could be. I'm not sure offhand. I recall seeing some flags to call specific qualities, though...
<JanC> when run from the commandline, it can tell you the exact URL
<JanC> which might be useful for duflu to get the same
<JanC> (he can even download it then)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, good afternoon!
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<oSoMoN> bien, et toi?
<didrocks> j'ai Ã©tÃ© au lit tout le week-end :/
<didrocks> fiÃ¨vre et rhino
<didrocks> je commence tout juste Ã  Ã©merger
<oSoMoN> ah merde, pas cool
<didrocks> on survivra :)
<oSoMoN> bon rÃ©tablissement!
<didrocks> merci ;)
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> lut didrocks oSoMoN
<jamesh> hi seb128
<seb128> hey jamesh, how are you?
<jamesh> good.  Went for another ride yesterday training for a charity bike ride later this month
<jamesh> 60 km around the river
<seb128> nice
<jamesh> the charity ride is going to be 70 km, but should be a bit easier, going on roads and not having to stop as much
<Guest86060> ahoy there
<Guest86060> GOD
<Guest86060> THIS AGAIN
<Guest86060> i should fix that logon thing
 * Laney tries to remember how to do that
<jamesh> setting your nickserv password as the irc network password seems to be the most reliable option
<Laney> nick:password
<Laney> I remember, a couple of weeks ago I switched to the SSL certificate thing and it doesn't work properly for me
 * Laney tries
<Laney> seemed to work
<willcooke> morning all
<jibel> morning willcooke
<willcooke> hi jibel, wb
<willcooke> good hols?  How did the move go?
<jibel> holidays were fantastic. Sun and high temperature end of October is priceless
<jibel> and the move is done, one more before next :)
<willcooke> :)_
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> lut jibel
<Merlijn_S> I found a potentially critical issue: Ubuntu 17.10 fails to boot after a firmware update: https://github.com/rhboot/fwupdate/issues/86
<oSoMoN> salut jibel !
<Merlijn_S> I had this issue myself, and now another user has reported the same issue.
<Merlijn_S> Bug in launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/fwupd/+bug/1730343
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730343 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "firmware update breaks Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
<Merlijn_S> Sadly, there is no way to debug this issue because Ubuntu _still_ doesn't preserve logs from previous boot..
<Merlijn_S> It might be a good idea to disable firmware update in the software center until this issue is resolved.
<duflu> Hmm, I didn't know it was even an option to forget history. Seems we do (journalctl --list-boots)
<Merlijn_S> The issue with forgetting history is reported here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1618188
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1618188 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "systemd journal should be persistent by default: /var/log/journal should be created; remove rsyslog from default installs" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Merlijn_S> The fix is incredibly simple, but they don't want to enable it because that might cause some logs to be written to disk twice.
<Merlijn_S> max 2x disk space for logs seems like a small price to pay for the benefits of being able to debug fwupd, but that's another issue..
<Merlijn_S> Can I do something else to get the desktop team's attention for the fwupd issue, or do they check this channel regularly?
<duflu> Merlijn_S, they should mostly be here now (mostly in Europe)
<Merlijn_S> Great, thx
<duflu> Merlijn_S, although as is always the case, it's not that simple. It seems to be in the hands of the Ubuntu foundations people, not desktop :)
<Merlijn_S> How do you mean?
<duflu> And foundations sounds right. Foundations = internals, Desktop = graphical etc
<Merlijn_S> oh, ok
<duflu> Merlijn_S, try emailing Dimitri and Bryan directly, I recommend
<duflu> Likely they just lost the email thread for the bug
<Merlijn_S> Which Bryan are you talking about?
<duflu> Merlijn_S, the only one mentioned in the bug :)
<Merlijn_S> oh, ok, I searched the thread for "brian" instead of "bryan" xD
<jbicha> good morning
<willcooke> morning jbicha
<jbicha> Merlijn_S: did you link to the wrong github issue for 1730343 ?
<Merlijn_S> Yes, my bad!
<Merlijn_S> jbicha: fixed, thanks!
<Laney> Merlijn_S: what about pulling this bad update from the LVFS?
<oSoMoN> seb128, do you know what keeps re-triggering the amd64 build for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.2-0ubuntu2 ?
<oSoMoN> there's a consistent unit test failure for which I'm backporting a debian patch, rebuilding over and over won't help
<jbicha> oSoMoN: I did a rebuild once on Saturday because sometimes LO has a one-time test failure, but other people have clicked the retry button since
<oSoMoN> ack, so anyone please refrain from retrying that, I'll have another upload ready during the day
<jbicha> I clicked Cancel on that build now
<Merlijn_S> Laney: It's not caused by the update itself, it seems, it's more of a race condition in fwupd itself. The annoying thing is that I can't reproduce it by downgrading and upgrading again, but another user has it too, so it's obviously still happening..
<seb128> oSoMoN, likely people who are unsure of the issue is transient or not and want to see the build green so do a retry to see
<seb128> oSoMoN, I've been one of those :p
<seb128> oSoMoN, I assumed that it failed to build realiably on amd64 you would have hit that issue before upload so that it meant that it's probably random
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, looks like the issue is due to another update in the archive, although the upstream patch in debian doesn't elaborate on which
<oSoMoN> it was building in my PPA before the upload
<seb128> k
<seb128> start of cycle fun :p
<seb128> things keep changing under you
<oSoMoN> what IÂ don't understand though is that the new test build in my PPA which I uploaded 6+ hrs ago failed (for another reason apparently), and when IÂ went back to it to see the log I saw that it had been restarted
<oSoMoN> so now IÂ don't have a build log, and I have to wait for another 6 hours
<seb128> is that your own ppa?
<seb128> or a team one?
<oSoMoN> yes, my own
<seb128> weird :-/
<seb128> that's worth asking on #launchpad how that's possible
<oSoMoN> and no, my other schizophrenic self didn't retry it
<seb128> the one reason I could see if that they had an infra issue and decided to restart the build from everything that hit it
<seb128> but I would ask on #launchpad, just feels weird to me
<oSoMoN> yes, I'll do that
<seb128> thanks
<oSoMoN> seb128, so according to Colin, what happened in my
<oSoMoN> PPA can happen if the build crashes the builder
<oSoMoN> (stupid misplaced return key)
<oSoMoN> or if LP looses connectivity to the builder for too long
<seb128> oSoMoN, oh ok, good to know
<seb128> I guess they consider it as a builder issue and auto retry in such cases?
<oSoMoN> seb128, yeah, and when the builder crashes the logs can't be retrieved anyway, so it makes sense to trigger a new build
<oSoMoN> have a good evening everyone!
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-07
<roasted> evening duflu
<duflu> roasted, Hi... (it's actually 9:36am)
<roasted> ha, 8:36 PM here :P
<duflu> You must be upside down
<roasted> East coast USA.
<duflu> Yeah
<roasted> government here just changed our time to make days longer or something :P
<sarnold> still just 24 stupid hours in a day
<roasted> slightly OT: read about Arizona's (USA) DST zones for some epic hilarity. :P
<roasted> duflu: wanted to share something with you regarding that gray artifact thing when using vaapi
<roasted> so far in my testing I've only had the gray artifacts happen with mpv/youtube-dl streaming when the video is using vp9 codec.
<roasted> so maybe it's an issue isolated with vp9 (?)
<duflu> roasted, yes I had already guessed it was VP9 only :)
<duflu> Just haven't had time to look yet
<duflu> roasted, what container format (e.g. file extension and output from the 'file' command) do you get?
<roasted> sec, let me re-run it and see.
<roasted> you wnat the output when I hit vp9?
<duflu> roasted, yes I expect it's VP9 video, inside an MP4 container
<duflu> Although Google could be doing something different when streaming the VP9
<roasted> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f67881a90315ee0b95582382405c50c4
<duflu> roasted, Thanks. I didn't know mpv could do that :)
<roasted> do what -- even attempt vp9?
<duflu> roasted, interpret the youtube URL
<roasted> I put this in my mpv.conf, which according to a github issue is a means of avoiding vp9 >> ytdl-format=bestvideo[height<=?1080][fps<=?30][vcodec!=?vp9]+bestaudio/best
<duflu> roasted, OK I'll do some testing on that. Unfortunately my primary work machines are not up to it (only Haswell) so need to reorganise laptops beforehand
<roasted> exact same mpv/link command ran a second time iwth that ytdl string in my mpv.conf:
<roasted> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/84b7c20c5fbfaa80f66aea5387191bd3
<roasted> github issue source where I saw this comment: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/4241
<roasted> in case any of that helps :)
<duflu> roasted, Cool. Yes that trick is what's used by Safari and just about every Android/iOS device I guess. They all need H.264
<roasted> I understand android post 4.4 leverages vp9 now
<roasted> one post I read dated a few months old mentions IE (not Edge) and Safari are the only H264 holdouts
<duflu> Possibly. But I think most CPU/GPUs can't
<roasted> ah, true
<duflu> Which might explain my poor results from android-x86
<duflu> roasted, Can you do me a favor and log a bug against mpv? That way I can keep track better, and also push the issue to whatever upstream project the bug is in
<duflu> I mean log a bug in Launchpad
<roasted> hah, for a second I was like :? as I know what MPV devs would say...
<duflu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mpv/+filebug
<roasted> "hardware accel is not recommended" blah blah
<roasted> would you prefer I include most of the info we talked about including comparing mpv outputs of vp9 vs h264 etc?
<duflu> roasted, if you can
<roasted> sure can.
<roasted> for now I think I'm going to let this ytdl anti vp9 line in my conf. Makes mpv work that much better.
<roasted> from a streaming standpoint anyway
<duflu> roasted, Sure. I am not familiar with that condition syntax but suspect you would not need "[height<=?1080][fps<=?30]"
<duflu> Since all you want is the bestvideo that's not vp9
<roasted> duflu: yeah, I plan to cut it down a bit. My initial assumption with how I reworked that line failed.
<roasted> I'll get to it. Figured I'd write up the bug report first. :P
<roasted> duflu: ytdl-format=bestvideo[vcodec!=?vp9]+bestaudio/best
<roasted> duflu: Submitted. #1730551. Appreciate your time my friend. Please let me know if I can help with testing anything. Until then I'll continue to rock the ytdl-format line as it serves as a decent workaround. Enjoy your night--er, day. :)
<duflu> Thanks roasted, and no problem
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel, didrocks
<duflu> Or it would be if my groceries weren't covered in milk
<oSoMoN> good morning
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> duflu, nice to see those libinput improvements landing ... does it start making libinput more acceptable in your mind?
<oSoMoN> good morning seb128
<duflu> seb128, yes it's a big improvement. And surprisingly Peter used a heuristic so it applies to ANY touchpad model affected. There is no whitelist
<duflu> Still a few points in the Trello card for me to revisit
<seb128> k, good to see those changes coming in any case
<duflu> He fixed HP x360 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon gen4 + gen5 all in a single fix
<duflu> and many more, no doubt
<Laney> morning!
<seb128> hey Laney! how are you on this sunny tuesday?
<didrocks> lies
 * didrocks looks outside
<didrocks> no sun
<didrocks> fake sun!
<didrocks> hey Laney
<oSoMoN> hey Laney, salut didrocks
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN :)
<duflu> Morning Laney, willcooke
<duflu> and belated good morning seb128
<Laney> hey seb128 didrocks oSoMoN duflu!
<Laney> no sun indeed #fakenews
<Laney> how's it going?
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> winter weather, but less sick than the previous days, so overall good! yourself?
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<willcooke> stupid timezones pt2.  Surprise 9am meeting
<willcooke> pt1 was last night when I was nearly an hour late for my 1:1 with Robert
<duflu> willcooke, that reminds me. I think the Wednesday meeting is still an hour out. Konrad agreed to change it but he forgot I think
<duflu> (it should ideally be fixed in UTC)
<ximion> hey Laney :-)
 * Laney runs
<Laney> i mean, hi ximion!
<ximion> that reaction is appropriate ;-)
 * ximion chases Laney
<ximion> there is an appstream-generator release that you'll really want in Ubuntu, because it not only finds more icons but also has support for webapps and *might* use less memory
<ximion> annoying for you is that it depends on a very recent AppStream release, which requires Meson, which requires a bugfixed gobject-introspection, which requires a GLib update
<ximion> so, a really annoying thing to backport to Xenial (I tried)
<Laney> oh THANKS!
 * ximion doesn't know if sarkasm or not :P
<Laney> imagine if there were a snap :P
<ximion> actually, this would be a good case for a Snap, maybe I make one
 * ximion hasn't snapped in a while
<Laney> hehe
<ximion> destilling the patch that fixed gir or just updating everything to a recent version is also possible, I guess :P
<Laney> I just thought that all that backporting is an annoying problem, would be nice if that were solved somehow
<Laney> ...oh wait!
<ximion> but I'm not sure if they allow you to run a non-LTS Ubuntu for services at Canonical
<Laney> not really
<jamesh> we could always put out a new LTS release, or something
<Laney> good plan
<ximion> neat, so I hope I can make post-freeze updates to suites possible with AppStream in time for Bionic, it'll be a tough issue though (also, hughsie doesn't get the problem yet, but that's the easiest issue to solve)
<Laney> (...ssh nusakan.canonical.com)
<Laney> oh yeah, that one is hard
<ximion> there is also a new package that I should make you aware of: webapps-metainfo --> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/webapps-metainfo
<ximion> it's purpose is to exclusively hold metadata to fully-free web applications to be displayed in GNOME Software
<ximion> when launched from there, the "apps" run in a chrome-less Epiphany window
<Laney> yeah I've seen those
<Laney> having it shipped via a package feels weird to me, does it to you?
<ximion> it's a feature requested quite often, but also occasionally hated by users according to hughsie
<ximion> so, we should probably indicate webapps better in GS (at the moment they look like regular apps, which IMHO isn't good)
<ximion> Laney: jup, it's weird, but the alternative would have been to inject those via some side channel into the final metadata, which would be even weirder
<ximion> with the package method, every DD and Ubuntu dev knows how to edit these files, we gat a bugtracker entry, can ship icons really easily, and integrate generally well with the package-based workflow of asgen
<Laney> nah was thinking a separate appstream source for those
<ximion> so, while feeling weird at first, I think this approach is best
<Laney> like the extensions.gnome.org stuff (ok, that's not appstream but you know what I mean)
<ximion> in that case we would need some "download data from $arbitrary_source" logic which doesn't exist yet
<ximion> web apps are a really weird thing, because they are not "installed", so the usual delivery method (Flatpak, Snappy, APT) can't provide the metadata
<ximion> so they'll always be weirdly bolted onto an existing system
<Laney> yah
<ximion> with webapps being in the archive, we do have an even bigger incentive now to be able to edit archive metadata post-freeze though
<Laney> that's like extensions
<Laney> hah
<ximion> I resisted adding webapps properly to AppStream for a really, really long time now :P
 * ximion didn't see the point
<ximion> btw, Fedora is doing things exactly the same way as Debian is doing it now, by packaging metadata
<ximion> also, the Ubuntu asgen will do the wrong thing (tm) with the webapp metadata, because it doesn't know how to treat that data properly
<ximion> Laney: interesting, looks like Ubuntu's asgen is ignoring the webapps package entirely :P
<Laney> ximion: http://appstream.ubuntu.com/bionic/universe/metainfo/webapps-metainfo.html ?
<ximion> I don't see that page
<ximion> very weird
<Laney> should catch up soon
<Laney> got an appointment, back in 30ish
<oSoMoN> seb128, I've got another libreoffice build ready for bionic, verified to build on all arches in a PPA: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.2/bionic/
<seb128> oSoMoN, great, thank you
<seb128> oSoMoN, hum, 5.4.2 has already been uploades so the .changes/upload shouldn't include the origin files
<seb128> oSoMoN, also no need to -v<version> to include 1:5.4.2-0ubuntu1 and ubuntu2 since those have been uploaded (I mentioned it for 0ubuntu2 because at the time 0ubuntu1 hadn't been included in an upload yet)
<oSoMoN> seb128, ok, let me re-do the source package
<seb128> thx
<oSoMoN> seb128, there you go: https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/libreoffice-5.4.2/bionic2/
<oSoMoN> (sorry for the delay, IÂ was in the middle of something else)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, damn fonts ;) -- there is no need to rebuild l10n
<oSoMoN> indeed
<oSoMoN> seb128, no need to push libreoffice-l10n it seems, only libreoffice
<ricotz> oSoMoN, ohh
<ricotz> another icu transition?
<oSoMoN> ricotz, oh wow
<oSoMoN> let's hope LO will build fine against that new version
<ricotz> oSoMoN, so better push 5.4.3 fast, before d_oko pushes a no-change rebuild which wastes cycles ;)
<ricotz> oSoMoN, yeah, still two weeks to go before it is reasonable to push 6.0 which is more in shape for all those new things tickling in
<oSoMoN> yeah
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, please note that this is not built - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rustc/1.21.0+dfsg1+llvm-0ubuntu3
<willcooke> didrocks, how do I enable ubuntu dock in the gnome session?
<didrocks> willcooke: you can with the chrome extension or tweaks
<seb128> oSoMoN, k
<willcooke> didrocks, aha, tweaks.  That makes sense.  Thx
<didrocks> yw ;)
<krashekspress> HI, GDM question (does it even belong here?): If I disable Wayland in gdm conf, can I anyway choose Wayland session?
<jbicha> krashekspress: no
<krashekspress> < sad panda
<krashekspress> at least now my gdm screen is not broken on boot
<jbicha> GDM only offers Wayland sessions if GDM is running under Wayland
<krashekspress> jbicha: thanks
<seb128> krashekspress, why would you disable wayland if it works?
<krashekspress> seb128: hah, it works only if I log into Xorg first, because Xorg loads drivers correctly (looks like kernel driver for my card has bug)
<krashekspress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/1724796
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1724796 in libdrm (Ubuntu) "Picture is heavily malformed" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> oh ok
<krashekspress> by disabling Wayland in GDM, at least login screen is fixed
<krashekspress> and I realy don't want to relog daily just to use Wayland, hopefully stuff will be fixed
<krashekspress> and I don't know how to load/reload thos drivers in any other way
<willcooke> bear with me while I finish this call
<willcooke> 5 mins
<willcooke> for meeting start
<jbicha> o/
<willcooke> k
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  7 14:34:35 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho (hols), robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> ðº/
<didrocks> hey!
<seb128> hey
<willcooke> Sorry for the late start everyone
<heber> o/
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> Looks like we've got enough folk to get started....
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> 1. py-macaroon-bakery
<andyrock>    1.1 MR to relaxing py-requests and py-protobuf dependencies in order to facilite the ITP's py-macaroon-bakery
<andyrock>    1.2 testing the MR to make sure relaxing  the deps was ok
<andyrock>    1.3 python-macaroon-bakery is in bionic (0.0.3 in universe and 0.0.5 in universe-proposed) thanks to cjwatson
<andyrock> 2. software-properties
<andyrock>    2.1 Refactoring code around in order to make it work with new API, code is almost ready I just need to deal with some corner cases
<andyrock> 3. my xps 15 decided to died, spent some time to open it, debug the issue and order the different replacement parts to fix it
<andyrock> *to relax
<willcooke> andyrock, OEM said you can keep that machine for a little while if you need it
<andyrock> cool
<willcooke> andyrock, EOF?
<andyrock> yup
<willcooke> thanks andyrock
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<kenvandine> o/
<dgadomski> * discussed TLS1.2 support in python 2.7.6 on Trusty (bug #1443704) with the security team, checking if it's supported by openssl underneath without Python knowing about it
<dgadomski> * debugging a potential cups regression in 17.10 - will report a bug after I know what's going on there
<dgadomski> * back to working on bug #1700827 (after security issues has been resolved upstream)
<ubot5> bug 1443704 in python2.7 (Ubuntu) "Support for TLS 1.2 not present (added in 2.7.9)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1443704
<ubot5> bug 1700827 in pcp (Ubuntu) "[MIR] pcp package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700827
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: didrocks
<didrocks> plop
<didrocks> * File Google Code In tasks on the forum. Need now to enter them in the system (Ken, you did volunteered as well, I think I'll get you in).
<didrocks> * Started GNOME Shell vs extension mode upstream discussion for security on their mailing list:
<didrocks>   - Few feedbacks for now, tried pushing on ML, bugzilla and IRC multiple times.
<didrocks>   - Implemented a POC patch set enabling that. Running this patch set happily for some days and all works (updates prevention, can't remove extension, running local one instead of remote one).
<didrocks>   - Once this is sorted out, will need to work on Tweaks and chrome shell extension to reflect correct status.
<didrocks>   - For reference: discussion at https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2017-October/msg00034.html and bug athttps://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789852.
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789852 in general "Ensure extensions parts of a mode are from system, report back correct status for g-s-extension-prefs" [Normal,New]
<didrocks> * Fix a dash to dock vs ubuntu dock conflict (do not look at gsettings key but rather looking at internal running state) + SRU/backport some upstream fixes to artful.
<didrocks> * Linux Unplugged interview
<didrocks> * Fix a GNOME Shell crasher when installed with no recommends
<didrocks> * Iterate with GNOME Shell designers on "sounds above 100% feedback"
<didrocks> * Rebase fo bionic ubuntu-dock on latest dash to dock and uploadedit.
<didrocks> * More community interaction on the hub and french forum.
<didrocks> â¦
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> #topic duflu
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: duflu
<willcooke> Standby for large paste....
<willcooke> * PulseAudio 11.1 for bionic:
<willcooke>   - Completed merge with Debian, packaging fixes and testing.
<willcooke>   - Now just awaiting sponsorship; see sponsorship list below.
<willcooke>   - History: https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-audio-dev/pulseaudio/log/?h=ubuntu
<willcooke> * Mutter/Xwayland crash handling (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1724185)
<willcooke>   - Fix released upstream this week (v3.26.2)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1724185 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Xwayland leaves no core dump or .crash file when crashing" [High,Fix released]
<willcooke>   - Fix released in Bionic already!
<willcooke> * Mutter: blurry shell fonts: (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1714459)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1714459 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Shell font is blurry under Wayland (panels, menus and login screen too)" [Low,In progress]
<willcooke>   - Fix landed upstream for release in mutter v3.27.2 only.
<willcooke>   - HELP: Need to decide how we will get this into 18.04 if not Gnome 3.28.
<willcooke> * Totem stuttering fixes (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698270)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1698270 in totem-pl-parser (Ubuntu) "Totem pauses and stutters during video playback even when CPU usage is low" [High,In progress]
<willcooke>   - GTK timing flaws: patches awaiting review/sponsorship below.
<willcooke>   - Totem disk fsync: patch awaiting review/sponsorship below.
<willcooke> * Totem high CPU usage (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698282)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1698282 in clutter-gst-3.0 (Ubuntu) "Totem uses dramatically higher CPU than any other video player" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke>   - On hold till upstream or myself find time to work on completing DMA-buf support in clutter-gst.
<willcooke> * Unresponsive touchpads (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1696929)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1696929 in libinput (Ubuntu) "X1 Carbon gen4 and gen5 touchpads are unresponsive and laggy" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke>   - Upstream fix approved by all testers and now landed.
<willcooke>   - Due for release in libinput 1.9.2 (I guess)
<willcooke> * Incorrect %CPU in gnome-system-monitor (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1723370)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1723370 in gnome-system-monitor (Ubuntu) "Processes % CPU column is inaccurate (only ever an integer multiple of the number of CPUs)" [Medium,In progress]
<willcooke>   - Upstream fix has now landed.
<willcooke>   - ETA for inclusion in Ubuntu not yet known.
<willcooke> * Leaky/bloated Gnome Shell (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1672297)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1672297 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell uses lots of memory, and grows over time" [High,In progress]
<willcooke>   - I got sucked into this by an unexpectedly helpful and eager user so have been working with him. Looks like there are at least two repeating causes of memory bloat/leak.
<willcooke>   - Work in progress.
<willcooke> * HELP: Patches awaiting Ubuntu sponsorship:
<willcooke>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846
<willcooke>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698270/comments/18
<willcooke>   - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1716700/comments/2
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1716700 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to PulseAudio 11.1" [Wishlist,In progress]
<willcooke>   - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195
<willcooke> * Patches awaiting upstream review:
<willcooke>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787001
<ubot5> Gnome bug 787001 in GtkClutterEmbed "clutter-gtk apps like totem and gnome-maps are spending 50% of their CPU time redrawing GTK widgets" [Normal,New]
<willcooke>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787665
<ubot5> Gnome bug 787665 in .General "gdk_frame_clock_get_frame_time is irregular and causing stuttering" [Normal,New]
<willcooke> * Upstream patches now making progress with upstream help:
<willcooke>   - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=773453
<ubot5> Gnome bug 773453 in gstreamer-vaapi "vaapi: support GLTextureUpload for EGL/Wayland" [Normal,New]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv.
<willcooke> Desktoppers: Please could someone take a look at the sponsorship requests above ^
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: jbicha
<jbicha> (totem at least is blocked on the headerbar decision)
<jbicha> â¢ gdm3 security update for zesty (LP: #1729354)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1729354 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "17.04: GDM lock screen can be circumvented when autologin is set" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729354
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded mutter SRU to artful queue (LP:#1730097)
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded nototools and fonts-noto-color-emoji to NEW queues.
<jbicha> â¢ Uploaded libcloudproviders to NEW queue. It will enable Nextcloud support in GTK/Nautilus file browser (so it will need a MIR).
<jbicha> â¢ Debian Testing finally has GNOME 3.26
<jbicha> â¢ Continuing discussion about headerbar patches on community.ubuntu.com
<jbicha> Xubuntu is considering switching some of their default apps (like evince and file-roller) to the MATE versions
<jbicha> eof
<seb128> jbicha, what about totem is blocked on headerbar?
<jbicha> duflu's fix is to drop the headerbar patches! :)
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> (I'm going to look at duflu's sponsoring request on thursday if nobody does it before (I'm off tomorrow))
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> and thanks jbicha
<seb128> np
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195
<willcooke> Skipping jamesh, no update received
<willcooke> #topic jibel / heber
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: jibel / heber
<heber> Hey! QA updates:
<heber> * Deploying upgrade tests for bionic
<heber> * Maintenance of the testing infrastructure
<heber> * Going through ubiquity and upgrade failing jobs
<heber> * Move jobs that are waiting for nodes on lcy01
<heber> * Getting/parsing results for gnome-shell tests
<heber> EOF
<willcooke> thanks heber, hope you had good hols.  Don't think I've said hi since you've been back
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: kenvandine
<kenvandine> * Backported some more fixes from artful to the gnome-3-26 backports PPA including glib with the per desktop overrides.
<kenvandine> * Updated gnome-3-26-1604 snap to include fixes
<kenvandine> * Fixed snapcraft-desktop-helpers to include copying of the schema overrides
<kenvandine> * Rebuilt and tested all the GNOME snaps to include the gsettings override fixes as well as updated packages
<kenvandine> * Tested the new gnome-online-accounts-service interface from jamesh with gnome-calendar and gnome-contacts
<kenvandine> * Created contacts-service and calendar-service needed interfaces for evolution access from gnome-calendar and gnome-contacts.  No PR submitted yet, needs some tweaking and tests but they do work with gnome-contacts and gnome-calendar with strict confinement.
<kenvandine> I'm out friday, US holiday
<kenvandine> that' sit
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<willcooke> #topic Laney
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: Laney
<seb128> oh, jamesh did a gnome-online-accounts interface, nice
<Laney> â¢ 2 day meeting in London to review Trello etc
<Laney> â¢ helped bring up new cloud region for autopkgtest (lcy01 was redeployed)
<Laney> â it's got / hitting a bug where instances are failing to reboot (something like bug #1713751), spent a fair bit of time looking into that with IS (ongoing)
<ubot5> bug 1713751 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "soft lockup / stall on CPU when shutting down with hwe 4.10 kernel " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713751
<Laney> â¢ got review on some gnome-software PRs, fixed / responded to those
<Laney> â¢ started working again on seeding of snaps
<Laney> ð
<seb128> jamesh, shame you forgot to write your summary, you usually have interesting work :)
<kenvandine> seb128, and it works great :)
<seb128> nice
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey ho!
<oSoMoN> = chromium =
<oSoMoN> â¢ chromium 62.0.3202.75 security update published to all supported series, 62.0.3202.89 currently building in stage PPA
<oSoMoN> â¢ updated chromium beta to 63.0.3239.30 in PPA and snap in beta channel
<oSoMoN> â¢ updating chromium dev to 64.0.3253.3
<oSoMoN> â¢ my upstream CL that fixes source tarball generation got merged and deployed: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/tools/build/+/3eab95a2d59d2ed3d983079c2fb1a0e449b858f3
<oSoMoN> â¢ bug triaging, closing many old bugs that are not relevant any longer, confirming a few ones
<oSoMoN> = libreoffice =
<oSoMoN> â¢ snap: fixed a couple of issues found by candidate channel testers (bug #1729025, bug #1728713) and promoted 5.4.2 to stable channel
<ubot5> bug 1729025 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[snap] Cannot install 5.4.2 snap with core from beta channel: invalid exec command" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1729025
<ubot5> bug 1728713 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[snap] theming regressed in 5.4.2 on Ubuntu 17.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728713
<oSoMoN> â¢ bionic: prepared 5.4.2 upload, failed to build on amd64 due to new unit test failures, backported a couple of commits from the upstream debian package and prepared an updated package which is now building
<oSoMoN> = other =
<oSoMoN> â¢ prepared PPU application for chromium-browser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OlivierTilloy/PPUApplication, please endorse me if you can!
<oSoMoN> EOF âï¸
<willcooke> nice, thanks oSoMoN
<willcooke> #topic seb128
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: seb128
<seb128> â¢ 1 day off for national holiday
<seb128> â¢ 2 days in London for planning
<seb128> â¢ bugs triaging from incoming artful reports
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ replied to some delayed email and to mailing list discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic tk
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: tk
<willcooke> err
<Laney> tk taks
<willcooke> guess Till isn't online
<willcooke> tab complete fail
<willcooke> We can come back
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Got basic snap support working in AppCenter (ElementaryOS) and forwarded patch to them.
<willcooke> - Implemented new / updated snapd APIs into snapd-glib
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2017-11-07 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> jbicha, you wanted to talk about....
 * willcooke thinks
<jbicha> LP: #1666676
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1666676 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Install tracker by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1666676
<willcooke> that's the one
<didrocks> ah, back on that one :)
<jbicha> I invited csoriano (Nautilus maintainer) and garnacho (tracker maintainer) in case there were more detailed questions
<garnacho> hi everyone
<willcooke> hi garnacho, thanks for joining
<seb128> sorry but I didn't see that discussion would be raised today
<seb128> I didn't re-read enough about the topic nor prepared
<seb128> so I don't have questions or specifics to discuss
<willcooke> can we punt to tomorrow on IRC?
<jbicha> sorry, I didn't think to ping seb128 specifically ahead of time
<csoriano> hello all
<seb128> jbicha, well, it's not only me
<jbicha> maybe I should have emailed the list instead
<jbicha> in advance
<seb128> jbicha, seems like you invited upstream, would have been nice to tell us to prepare questions if we had some :)
<didrocks> I guess latest stand we got on perf and battery was summarized in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1666676/comments/6
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1666676 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Install tracker by default" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> jbicha, could we start a thread on the hub?  Sounds like a good place to do it
<seb128> hey csoriano!
<didrocks> (I didn't read more, didn't know we would have that AOB and didn't prepare for that question)
<seb128> well, those discussions went round but "on the spot" comments
<jbicha> community.ubutnu.com is nice because it doesn't require people to all be on IRC at the same time to give input
<seb128> - the LTS cycle is a tricky time to do disruptive changes and that's one of those
<jbicha> it was a stealth request on https://trello.com/c/4gjeaE66/93-re-evaluate-tracker-by-default
<seb128> - we would need to plan for manpower to do the change and ensure quality and we didn't account for that
<jbicha> and I didn't think that everyone wouldn't have seen the little note there
<willcooke> I think the hub is probably a good place for this then, people can take time over their responses
<jbicha> willcooke: I can start the discussion on community.ubuntu.com, how about we see where we are with that at next week's Desktop meeting?
<willcooke> think things  through
<seb128> jbicha, I think that the summary is that upstream believes that it's good, there is no issue and that we should ship it and that we tend to want data to make up our mind and don't have enough to decide
<willcooke> jbicha, that sounds good. Thanks.  Maybe we can resolve everything on the hub with a bit of luck
<jbicha> seb128: yes, that's where we were last cycle
<seb128> csoriano, garnacho, sorry I don't think that we have questions for you, the positions are been stated several time of the years on that launchpad bugs and other places and I don't think anyone really changed their position
<csoriano> seb128: oh ok, then I guess that's all :)
<csoriano> see you!
<seb128> csoriano, I do know you would be in favor if seeing it included though :)
<seb128> so let's see how the hub discussion goes
<seb128> csoriano, thanks for coming!
<csoriano> sounds good
<csoriano> np!
<garnacho> alright, please point us to it
<seb128> k
<garnacho> see you!
<willcooke> oki, jbicha please get the thread started then and we can get it sorted
<willcooke> Anyone got anything else?
<jbicha> sure
<seb128> well, while we are on the topic, do people here install tracker and use it?
<jbicha> nothing else from me
<didrocks> I don't
<seb128> does anybody has an opinion on how it's working for them
<seb128> or a +1/0/-1 on principle?
<didrocks> I still hear bad things due to impact on battery/perf from the 2 persons working on GNOME around me
<andyrock> I got traker enabled for some reasons
<jbicha> seb128: every other GNOME distro includes it (including Ubuntu GNOME before 17.10)
<seb128> just trying to get a feeling of what people thing
<didrocks> that's the only input, but nothing measurable unfortunately
<andyrock> and it's always 100%
<seb128> think
<seb128> andyrock, 100% what?
<jbicha> Ubuntu Budgie intentionally stopped installing tracker in 17.10 so I want to ask fossfredom how much feedback they had gotten before about that
<andyrock> CPU
<andyrock> :P
<seb128> k
<andyrock> I cannot debug right now as the computer where it's enabled is dead
<seb128> the anecdotic comments we just had from didrocks and andyrock don't give me much confidence :p
<oSoMoN> not using it, but I can install and observe how it affects my machine
<didrocks> ah, also on the french forum
<seb128> hum
<didrocks> someone complaining that we installed tracker by default :p 100% of CPU usage
<didrocks> (2 days ago)
<seb128> should we maybe ask people in the team to install/opt in for it
<didrocks> ofc, arguedwedidn't :p
<seb128> and revisit/see feedback next week?
<seb128> or on the hub :p
<willcooke> hub!
<seb128> k
<jbicha> there are also lots of anecdotal comments that it works fine :/
<didrocks> I guess asking for a call for participation on the hub is nice
 * Laney has it installed, have done for ages
<Laney> so my anecdote is that I never notice it
<Laney> :-)
<didrocks> and gather data
<andyrock> I actually was not sure why the tracker was enabled
<seb128> Laney, do you find it to provide something useful?
<didrocks> I can link from the french forum as well
<andyrock> I was going to ask here because I was a bit confused
<seb128> andyrock, you probably installed the package to build/test nautilus or something?
<jbicha> seb128: we're also being forced in to enabling trackerâ¦
<andyrock> it can be
<seb128> jbicha, that has to been seen :p
<seb128> I'm not saying it's not going to be incrementally harder not having it
<jbicha> csoriano says that Nautilus 3.28 hard-depends on tracker for the new Favorites feature and he says we would have to revert several commits to avoid the tracker dependency
<seb128> but we could do without for the LTS
<seb128> he already said that for 3.26 and the batch rename
<seb128> and fts
<didrocks> for a non LTS, I guess we could give it a try, for a LTS, I'm less positive
<jbicha> well fts doesn't work without tracker and batch rename is a bit less nice without tracker
<jbicha> ("full text search")
<seb128> right, but he also said in 3.26 that it wouid be an hard depends
<seb128> anyway, let's give it a try
<seb128> but what Didier said
<seb128> even if it's good it needs a maintainer and somebody to look at issues after integration
<seb128> and the team is busy at full capacity already
<jbicha> tracker is a hard build-depends in 3.26 and the UI is confusing because it offers fts
<seb128> unsure what we are arguing over
<seb128> I was just pointed out that we managed to ship 3.26 without enabling tracker
<jbicha> and of course, we could still ship nautilus 3.26 for 18.04 LTS if it is a hard dependency and we don't want tracker
<seb128> right
<seb128> I guess it's enough said on the topic
<seb128> let's all install/try it and use the hub to discuss
<jbicha> it's tricky because we'll get criticism no matter what we do
<willcooke> yeah, to the hub!
<willcooke> gonna end the meeting here, carry on if needed
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  7 15:09:32 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-11-07-14.34.moin.txt
<willcooke> thanks all
<jbicha> we've gotten criticism for the regression from Unity of not having file search in the Activities Overview
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> jbicha, right, Trevinho has a card to at least integrate with the recently-used list
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> which is basically what unity had
<jbicha> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/install-tracker-by-default-in-18-04-lts/1483
<roasted> seb128: if I may chime in, I install tracker and enjoy using it. Had high CPU usage for a few seconds post-install, after that, no issues that I've seen.
<seb128> roasted, that's good feedback, thanks
<seb128> roasted, what do you use it for/where?
<seb128> roasted, and if it's only "few seconds" I guess you don't have lot of user datas?
<roasted> seb128: digging up files via activities/dash menu mostly. I've also found it to be convenient for finding specific settings too (at least I assume tracker is responsible for that). i.e. I can search "def" and it highlights "Default Applications" from Settings >> Details menu.
<roasted> seb128: I'm not sure what qualifies as a lot or a little. I can tell you at work, all of my data is in my work Nextcloud. At home, all of my data is in my home-Nextcloud. Both Nextcloud's sync to this laptop where I installed tracker.
<seb128> roasted, no, the settings isn't a tracker thing
<seb128> just keywords in settings panel descriptions
<roasted> ah. I hadn't taken note of that working prior, but did after tracker -- thought it was connected.
<seb128> Laney, did you get to the bottom of that gvfs/mtp issue at the end?
<Laney> no
<seb128> k
<Laney> might come back to it once current tasks are finished, otherwise someone else can work it if they want
<seb128> no hurry, I was just curious since it seemed you had an handle on it
<jbicha> tjaalton: hi, it looks like your mesa/bionic upload accidentally dropped my latest upload that we need for the libva transition
<jbicha> maybe you want https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-xorg/lib/mesa.git/commit/?id=3814e24 too
<tjaalton> jbicha: don't do blind uploads, thanks
<tjaalton> or commit changes to pkg-xorg git
<jbicha> I don't have commit privileges there, should I join the pkg-xorg team?
<jbicha> also it looks like your latest changes haven't been pushed there yet?
<willcooke> night all
<Laney> tata
<seb128> oSoMoN, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.2-0ubuntu3/+build/13690890/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-amd64.libreoffice_1%3A5.4.2-0ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz :-(
<oSoMoN> seb128, seen that :/ Iâll take a look after dinner
<tjaalton> jbicha: right about that! :)
<jbicha> tjaalton: what do you want to do now? Do you want to do the fixup mesa upload?
<tjaalton> jbicha: I will, tomorrow. autopkgtests keep it out anyway?
<tjaalton> my bad for not pushing it, can't access the repo remotely
<jbicha> yes, I expect autopkgtests won't catch up until next week ð
<tjaalton> looks like I need to drop mir vulkan support too, since it breaks radv
<oSoMoN> ricotz, any idea about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:5.4.2-0ubuntu3/+build/13690890/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-bionic-amd64.libreoffice_1%3A5.4.2-0ubuntu3_BUILDING.txt.gz ?
<oSoMoN> the failure is not amd64 specific, it happens on ppc64el too, but it's not considered fatal there
<jbicha> seb128: we only do language pack updates for LTS releases these days, right?
<oSoMoN> loadICUBreakIterator(â¦) hu ho ICUâ¦
<ricotz> oSoMoN, I see :\
<ricotz> oSoMoN, btw, chromium builds are really quite demanding
<ricotz> libreoffice looks like child's play compared to its buildtime ;)
<oSoMoN> yeah, with every new release chromium is getting bigger and longer to build :/
<oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113705
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 113705 in framework "linebreak unit test failure when building against libicu 60.1" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<oSoMoN> let's see if upstream has an idea, otherwise I'll take a closer look tomorrow
<ricotz> yeah, even git master is not built with 60.1 yet upstream
<ricotz> oSoMoN, please cc me on the bug
<ricotz> oSoMoN, eod here
<seb128> jbicha, we don't have rules about that I think, maybe check with Gunnar?
<seb128> jbicha, but yeah in practice we didn't have much langpacks updates in recent cycles, we could if needed though
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-08
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va jibel ?
<jibel> didrocks, de retour de 2 semaines de congÃ©s. 1 semaine au soleil et une semaine pour dÃ©mÃ©nager. Donc Ã§a va bin et toi?
<jibel> bien*
<didrocks> Martin et moi commenÃ§ont Ã  ne plus Ãªtre malade, enfin, donc Ã§a permet de respirer un peu :)
<jibel> good to hear you're all feeling better :)
<koza> hey everyone
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> morning koza, oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va mieux?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: bien mieux merci ! Encore un peu de toux, mais c'est acceptable maintenant :) et toi, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> moi Ã§a va, jâessaie de chauffer la maison parce quâil fait trÃ¨s froid dehors, rÃ©sultats mitigÃ©s pour le moment, du coup je bosse devant le poÃ«le :)
<didrocks> argh ;)
<willcooke> moin
<didrocks> hey willcooke!
<didrocks> how are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> morning didrocks oSoMoN
<duflu> Morning didrocks, koza, willcooke, oSoMoN
<duflu> world
<oSoMoN> afternoon duflu
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> koza, willcooke, feel like meeting today? Also we were going to bring the time forward (in five minutes from now) because it moved with someone's time zone
<willcooke> duflu, nothing to report for me (cc koza)  - wb koza, how you had a good break
<willcooke> *hope
<koza> duflu, i feel, been missing you guys :) but i remember the timechange - should it be moved one hour + to suit you?
<duflu> koza, minus I think... due in 2 minutes from now
<koza> a willcooke nothing to report if you duflu nothingtoreport as well then we can skip
<koza> duflu, you are away next week right?
<koza> *starting from
<koza> willcooke, yes, the break was really good
<koza> duflu, willcooke so lets skip
<Laney> moin
<duflu> Morning Laney
<oSoMoN> morning Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey duflu oSoMoN didrocks
<Laney> you good?
<didrocks> feeling better and better day by day, thanks! yourself?
<Laney> c-c-c-c-cccccccccccccold this morning
<didrocks> yeah, winter weather here in term of temperature
 * duflu uploads excess warmth (and not just because the aircon is broken)
<Laney> didrocks: glad you are getting better :-)
<Laney> this seemed to last for a long time
<oSoMoN> cold here too
<oSoMoN> but sunny and blue sky
<Laney> ya
<Laney> let's make a fire
<Laney> I found all this old computer code, should burn pretty well
<andyrock> ð¥
<Laney> "u... ni... ty"
<willcooke> oof
<didrocks> #troll
<willcooke> :)
<oSoMoN> heh
<Laney> â¥
<didrocks> I think we can even see if compiled code or interpreted one burns faster
<willcooke> haha
<willcooke> krashekspress, hey! Was it you I was talking to about the slowness when opening the user
<willcooke> panel in control center?
<krashekspress> I'm hit with that "camera" bug, yes
<willcooke> krashekspress, did you open a bug for it?  I think you did, but I can't find it
<willcooke> I want to add it to our backlog so that it gets fixed
<krashekspress> willcooke: yes, I think I did
<krashekspress> give me a sec
<krashekspress> willcooke: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1725163
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1725163 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell freezes for 25s when logout/shutdown" [Medium,New]
<krashekspress> its for shutdown, but issue is same
<krashekspress> I can create another one for settings if you want
<willcooke> krashekspress, that one is fine, thanks very much
<willcooke> ah yes, that's the one I was looking for
<willcooke> cheers!
<koza> seb128, hey long time no see :) correct me if I'm wrong but I have a bluez sru to land which is on the kernel side of the stack. this means that i should talk to kernel team, right (or perhaps you can somehow be the sponsor of ths one as well)?
<willcooke> koza, seb128 is on hols today, but yeah I think the kernel team would need to sponsor it.
<koza> willcooke, this is what I though, thanks. who is the best to ping from that team to start the discussion?
<willcooke> koza, not 100% sure, but I think bjf is a good place to start
<koza> willcooke, sweet, thanks
<czajkowski> aloha
<willcooke> hi czajkowski, how are you?
<czajkowski> willcooke: not bad thanks working away
<jbicha> jibel: do you know what's currently blocking the daily bionic iso's from moving from /pending/ to /current/ ?
<tjaalton> jbicha: new mesa uploaded with your changes in it
<jbicha> thanks :)
<jibel> jbicha, the team was focused on cloud-images but they should appear anytime soon
<jibel> jbicha, let me check
<jibel> they should have migrated
<oSoMoN> doko, not sure if you've seen this, the new ICU (60.1) breaks libreoffice, I've filed a bug upstream which has been acknowledged (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113705) and I'm trying to figure out if a simple distro-patch is doable in the meantime
<ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 113705 in framework "linebreak unit test failure when building against libicu 60.1" [Normal,Assigned]
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, chromium-browser 62.0.3202.89 is ready for publication in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages
<jibel> jbicha, bionic images have been promoted to current
<jbicha> thanks!
<jbicha> jibel: do you happen to know why there aren't daily iso's for other flavors or should I ask in #ubuntu-release ?
<jbicha> oh I guess they just started today so maybe I should just be a bit more patient
 * oSoMoN EOD, have a good evening everyone
<willcooke> night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-09
<xclaesse_> Hmm, adding .desktop files in ~/.local/share/applications/ doesn't get picked by g-s in 17.10
<JanC> xclaesse: yeah, I saw that too
<JanC> (if anyone knows an alternative?)
<jbicha> xclaesse: JanC: it works fine here
<JanC> actually, the thing it didn't pick up for me was related to MIME types IIRC
<JanC> I would have to check again
<JanC> or maybe that was because I don't use nautilus since it's broken too...
<JanC> I need to re-investigate  :)
<JanC> (nautilus is broken by upstream design AFAIU, but that doesn't really make a difference to me)
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<jibel> Hi duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, Ã§a va ?
<doko> oSoMoN: could you ignore that one test failure for now, like you do on other archs?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, Ã§a va, et toi?
<didrocks> Ã§a va bien :)
<oSoMoN> doko, possibly
<oSoMoN> I guess that's the quickest way of unblocking libreoffice in bionic
<oSoMoN> but it's not just a test that's broken, actual functionality will be broken too
<oSoMoN> so I'm not very fond of that option
<doko> yes, it's entangled with the haskell transition now
<oSoMoN> I'll ping upstream to see if we can expect a fix soon, otherwise I guess we'll just ignore the test failures for now
<duflu> Oh. Also good morning seb128, didrocks, sil2100
<didrocks>  hey duflu
<seb128> good morning duflu & desktopers
<sil2100> Hello
<willcooke> morning al
<willcooke> l
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
<didrocks> hey hey willcooke
<willcooke> I'm doing ok.  Though the lack of a window makes the study a bit cold :)
<willcooke> I've bought in an electic heater for now
<didrocks> lack of a window?
<willcooke> The builders took the window out and put some blocks in its place.  They don't provide much insulation it seems
<willcooke> which is odd, because the old window was rotten and had holes in it
<didrocks> but still more effective that the block, interestingâ¦
<didrocks> than*
<willcooke> yeah, I found that surprising
<didrocks> I guess you tried adding curtains to at least prevent the wind for blowing in?
<didrocks> from*
<willcooke> I was going to add some normal loft insulation and a bit of board, but I didnt get time/inclination yet :)
<willcooke> the colder it gets, the more I will care
<willcooke> didrocks, great post on the hub, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, time to go work in the couch :)
<willcooke> once the kids go out :)
<Laney> hey ho
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<didrocks> willcooke: yw! let's see how this goes :)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<didrocks> willcooke: how long before they replace the window?
<didrocks> I guess it all depends on that ;)
<willcooke> didrocks, sounds like before Christmas, the order went to the factory on Monday
<didrocks> yeah, so worth doing something in the interimâ¦
<willcooke> As seb said, probably just move to the couch
<willcooke> :)
<Laney> hey willcooke seb128 didrocks
<Laney> seb128: got a puncture on my bike >:(
<Laney> otherwise good
<Laney> you?
<seb128> oh :-/
<seb128> I cut my left thumb while cooking yesterday evening
<seb128> otherwise good as well :)
<Laney> oh no
<Laney> was it a bad one?
<czajkowski> ouchies!
<seb128> not too bad, I didn't need to go to get it fixed
<seb128> I can't use the thumb much though, need to let it rest or the cut reopens
<seb128> at least typing on the keyboard is fine :p
<czajkowski> seb128: do you use your thumb for the space bar ?
<seb128> yes, but the outside side and the cut is on the inside one
<seb128> :)
<czajkowski> seb128: productivity shall remain at 100% so :p
<seb128> indeed :p
<czajkowski> have you allsee many of the FOSDEM dev rooms have CFPs open
<seb128> I didn't, thanks for pointing it out
<czajkowski> https://fosdem.org/2018/news/2017-10-04-accepted-developer-rooms/
<czajkowski> seb128: I have a use - I idle in here and randomly offer a snippet of info :)
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> didrocks, for Code In - do you have a doc, or a tag in LP or something which people contribute ideas to?
<seb128> hub is quite active, quite some discussion already on the theme post from Didier
<willcooke> yeah it's looking good
<willcooke> It did make me think that maybe the time is right to move the mailing list there
<willcooke> we're getting many more people contributing on the hub than the mailing list
<seb128> willcooke, you mean pointing the people to use discourse in list mode if they want a list-type interaction (like the snapcraft forum is doing)? I guess that would make sense, maybe just send an "intend to ..." email to the list first to say that's coming?
<xclaesse> I made a fresh install of 17.10 and ~/.local/bin is not in my PATH by default. I think it was there in 16.04, no ?
<xclaesse> seb128, is that an intentional change?
<seb128> xclaesse, hey, I don't think it is
<seb128> that would need debugging to figure out what changed
<willcooke> seb128, sorry was at lunch, yeah exactly that
<didrocks> willcooke: for code in, I posted on the corresponding hub, but you can add more :)
<willcooke> didrocks, looking for a place for our team to add, I'll point them at the hub, thanks!
<didrocks> willcooke: ah, our team, there is a google doc before I put the list on the hub, but I feel the hub is better suited anyway
<didrocks> willcooke: I'll look there, planning to register them in the system next week on the system
 * Laney enables bionic mirror and gets 68G of debs + sources to download /o\
<willcooke> kenvadine, you missed an N
<kenvadine> whoops :)
<kenvadine> can't even spell my own name :)
<kenvadine> crap keyboard
 * oSoMoN goes to a Barcelona Free Software meetup
<oSoMoN> have a good evening everyone!
<JanC> someone needs to update the photos/screenshots on https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop
<Laney> they're screenshots of the LTS
<Laney> unless you mean the wrong icon for Software :-)
<JanC> is the LTS really installed more than 17.10 at this point?
<genii> do-release-upgrade -d is currently ineffective from 17.10, but manually changing sources.list works without issue. So probably not that much diverged at this early stage yet
<Laney> nighty night
<willcooke> night Laney
<willcooke> I'm off too, night all
<kenvandine> good night
<jackpot51> With the NVIDIA driver, laptops will not suspend when the lid is closed and no external monitors are plugged in. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-desktop/+bug/1731318
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1731318 in gnome-desktop3 (Ubuntu) "NVIDIA systems will not suspend with lid close and no external monitors" [Undecided,New]
<jackpot51> Patches can be found here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777538#c6
<ubot5> Gnome bug 777538 in libgnome-desktop "gnome_rr_output_is_builtin_display incorrectly returns false for Apple laptops with nvidia driver" [Normal,New]
<Astral> ?
<Astral> ??
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-10
<EdubblE> Hello, can someone help me with a window/ubuntu grub boot loader problem. I removed the ubuntu partition, but did not delete the grub boot loader, now i cannot boot into windows. What is the best solution? I can't create a win10 recover disk.
<EdubblE> I have seen a solution that says to boot a live ubuntu usb instance and install boot-repair, will that work okay?
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning didrocks and oSoMoN
<jibel> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN, jibel
<willcooke> morning
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<Laney> oops
<Laney> forgot to press enter
<Laney> morning!
<duflu> Hey Laney
<didrocks> morning Laney
<duflu> Hmm, nautilus has 2035 open bugs. There's a project for someone if you're bored
<Laney> hey duflu & didrocks (d*)
<didrocks> ;)
<Laney> happy FRIDAY!
<Laney> i just checked the calendar to make sure
<didrocks> yes!!!
 * Laney updates to bionic
<Laney> fun friday activity
<Laney> only 884 updates
<Laney> pfft
<jibel> so many packages still blocked in proposed
<Laney> :)
<Laney> one day we'll get through the test backlog
 * Laney is constantly sending hamsters to the DCs
<Laney> ooh bionic, shiny
<andyrock> willcooke regarding this https://trello.com/c/RSNS27OP/89-patch-disks-etc-to-hide-snap-squashfs
<andyrock> nautilus does not show them because they're not mounted in /media or /run/media
<andyrock> I guess we can just filter them in gnome disk utility
<andyrock> if the mount point in in /snap/... just ignore them
<willcooke> andyrock, ah yeah.  Filtering seems like a distro-hack, but I can't think of a better way that will work for everything.  I wonder if there is a way we could fix this upstream for everyone?
<andyrock> let me ask what they think upstream
<Laney> there's a GVFS attribute for things that should be hidden I think
<Laney> maybe that could be used
<Laney> worth asking
<Laney> â¥
<andyrock> Laney: gnome-disk-utility uses udisk
<andyrock> and has already some internal logic to decide what to show and what to hide
<andyrock> do you know who's the main maintainer?
<Laney> andyrock: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-disk-utility/tree/gnome-disk-utility.doap this has an email
<Laney> yeah I was sort of suggesting that it could use gvfs via gio to list them
<Laney> (gio mount -l)
<Laney> anyway, what do I know, ask the guy :P
<andyrock> nice i pinged him
<mbiebl_> you can set a udev property to have udisks ignore certain partitions
<mbiebl_> e.g. KERNEL=="sda1",ENV{UDISKS_IGNORE}="1"
<mbiebl_> via a rules file
<Laney> good to know
<andyrock> yeah we can do that but still we need to patch gnome-disk-utilities to ignore an udisk object if hint-ignore is true
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/wt8MnpJb/
<Laney> that ignores all loop devices, is that right?
<andyrock> yeah
<andyrock> too generic
<Laney> but if upstream is ok with respecting the property something like that seems sane
<andyrock> maybe we can also make it less generic including also the squashfs check
<GunnarHj> jbicha: Hi Jeremy, do you have time to sponsor the seed MPs at bug #1581160?
<ubot5> bug 1581160 in ubuntukylin-meta (Ubuntu) "Switch to Noto Sans as default font for Japanese and/or Korean?" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581160
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, just a reminder that a stable update of chromium (62.0.3202.89) is ready for publication in the stage PPA
<jbicha> GunnarHj: do you intend to do a language pack update for 17.10?
<GunnarHj> jbicha: No such plan... Actually we haven't done that for the latest non-LTS releases. Any specific reason why you ask? (Actually I'm about to nudge seb128 about a last langpack update for 16.04.)
<jbicha> I was asking because there are some GNOME 3.26.2 updates that are otherwise not worth SRUing (only translation updates for a package in main)
<jbicha> I don't know have any need for a 17.10 language pack update, I was just curious
<GunnarHj> jbicha: My vote would be to not do it, and thus not bother about those SRUs. Better focus on 18.04.
<didrocks> +1
<jbicha> that's fine with me, I just wanted to confirm intentions :)
<jbicha> btw, I think we might do freetype 2.8.1 for 18.04, but probably delay a bit longer because of electron regressions LP: #1728329
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1728329 in freetype (Ubuntu) "Update freetype to 2.8.1" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1728329
<jbicha> cyphermox: are the flavor 'supported' seeds actually used for anything? I'm looking at
<jbicha> https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntukylin.bionic_drop-takao-nanum/+merge/333506
<cyphermox> yes, they are usually used to denote things that are not on the image but still technically "supported" by the flavor community
<xclaesse> did all -dbg packages got removed from ubuntu archives ?
<xclaesse> I couldn't find them on 17.10
<jbicha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debug%20Symbol%20Packages
<xclaesse> jbicha, yep, added that repo, but many packages used to have -dbg in the main archive, they got dropped i favor of external repo ?
<Laney> xclaesse: yeah, Debian got support for automatic debug symbol packages so packages which used to build -dbg have been moving over
<jbicha> yes, there's more info at https://wiki.debian.org/AutomaticDebugPackages
<xclaesse> ok
<xclaesse> thc
<xclaesse> thx
<chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, yeah, I'm on that
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<oSoMoN> cheers
<dobey> uhm, what happened to nm-applet in 16.04? it's not showing up in the unity indicators any more, on either of my machines
<willcooke> have a good weekend all
<ricotz> chrisccoulson, still around?
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-11-11
<linuxlite1969> Hi- how can I install adobe flash player for linux lite
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-05
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<jibel> Good morning
<didrocks> hey duflu, salut jibel
<jibel> Hi didrocks
<jibel> I've this issue again where all the extensions are disabled and need to unlock twice :/
<duflu> jibel, hmm someone else reported that too. Let me see
<duflu> Morning jibel
<duflu> jibel, bug 1801470
<ubot5> bug 1801470 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Double password to login after screen locked" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1801470
<jibel> duflu, it's slightly different
<duflu> jibel, that's what everybody says. Can we make them the same? :)
<jibel> duflu, in my case, on first attempt there is no password field
<duflu> jibel, that bug is not well written. He might be seeing the same as you. I'll ask for better info
<jibel> duflu, ok, thanks
<duflu> jibel, hmm radeon?
<jibel> duflu, yes
<duflu> That's almost too uncommon to be a coincidence
<jibel> oh, and I've this bug where I nned to lock the screen twice to lock
<jibel> these 3 issues might be related
<jibel> first build of disco is broken it seems
<tjaalton> duflu: egl-wayland is in ppa:canonical-x/x-staging now
<duflu> tjaalton, thanks. You're too quick. Next time I switch to Nvidia I'll see if it helps mutter things
<tjaalton> you need to build mutter against it first?
<tjaalton> and it's for disco btw
<tjaalton> but should work just the same on cosmic
<duflu> tjaalton, I'm working on the theory that the missing .pc file is what's breaking mutter's configure (omitting EGLStreams support)
<duflu> -breaking +affecting
<tjaalton> right
<duflu> I guess RAOF was always just getting that stuff from github when he was using it in Mir
<duflu> ?...
<RAOF> What? No. I just link against `libnvidia-egl-wayland`. The Weston patches don't even do that; they `dlopen`
<RAOF> Which is what mutter is going to need to do anyway, unless you want a hard-depends on the NVIDIA driver.
<duflu> RAOF: Ah right. So you don't use/need a .pc file?
<duflu> RAOF: Mutter already works apparently. Only it uses a .pc file we don't have in archive
<duflu> I think
<duflu> So our Ubuntu builds seem to be missing EGLStreams support. It exists in the source though
<tjaalton> yep
<RAOF> To be fair, I use a symlink we don't have in the archive ð
<duflu> Tis fair
<duflu> Hmm, did I log a bug about this? I really should have
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hi duflu
<Laney> yo
<duflu> 'lo Laney
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> did everyone had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey, was good, yes, and already deep in iso building :p
<Laney> hey duflu oSoMoN seb128 didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, I had a really good long week-end, what about you?
<seb128> it was ok. The baby is getting a new tooth out and it took 1.5 hours every evening to get him to sleep, and he got a cold over he managed to share with me
<seb128> so happy monday, feel like I've a throat infection and I'm lacking sleep :/
<duflu> Morning seb128 :/
<didrocks> take it easy :/
<duflu> Night
<andyrock> good morning!
<andyrock> seb128: do you mind taking a look https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-notifier/fix-lp-1800862/+merge/358309 ?
<seb128> hey andyrock! how are you?
<seb128> andyrock, are you at the office already? ;)
<andyrock> seb128: fine thx! in the office. You?
<seb128> andyrock, sure, adding to my todo for today
<seb128> andyrock, I'm ok, a bit of lack of sleep and a bit sick, thx to the kid
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke! how is London? ;)
<willcooke> seb128, grey \o/
<seb128> what a surprise :)
<k_alam> Trevinho: Hi, since disco is out now this can land on it without ffe ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1741027
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1741027 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Screen sharing panels abort using an non-existent vino gsettings key" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> Free firework display outside of my window
<Laney> :3
<Trevinho> Morning
<Trevinho> k_alam: yes... But I've not the right to top approve the Mp... Laney can you please do it with the silo? ^ (abandon /rebuild is needed too)
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/means-of-browsing-all-snaps-in-a-section/8325
<kenvandine> Thx
<Trevinho> Laney: have you pushed https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/mutter/commit/?id=4792b6900479b65fe033947b885e04b1a2c72a09 to bionic queue or I don't see it? :o
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-06
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, I see it was rejected, why?
<duflu> Morning Trevinho, go to bed :)
<Trevinho> duflu: I'm in Mexico now... It's still evening here :)
<Trevinho> duflu: good morning to you instead :)
<duflu> Oh, how is Mexico?
<Trevinho> always cool
<Trevinho> I love mexico city
<duflu> Apparently
<duflu> ð®
<Trevinho> duflu: yeah, just another food compared to what you expect. And in the better way.
<didrocks> good morning
<jamesh> hi didrocks
<jamesh> didrocks: Yaru's CI seems to be publishing broken gtk-common-themes snaps :(
<didrocks> hey jamesh
<didrocks> jamesh: how broken? did you dive into it?
<jamesh> didrocks: I filed https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/953 about it
<gitbot> ubuntu issue 953 in yaru "CI: travis build publishes busted gtk-common-themes snaps" [Open]
<jamesh> didrocks: basically, the code in build-helpers/gtk-common-themes-parts.yaml has diverged sufficiently from how gtk-common-themes is actually built to cause problems
<jamesh> how we're exposing GTK 2 theme data in particular
<didrocks> jamesh: we don't only publish edge though
<didrocks> jamesh: we publish any PR so that people can test them with snap integration as well
<jamesh> didrocks: I'm less concerned about what you publish to those transient branches
<didrocks> like have a PR, test existing snap with the built gtk-common-theme for that PR
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, but it should be the same content for both, shouldn't it?
<didrocks> like same way of building it
<didrocks> if you have an endpoint in gitlab CI so that it can take a parameter, like branch to rebuild, that would do it IMHO
<didrocks> unsure if gitlab CI enables this
<didrocks> (despite the fact that it may not be the exact commit, contrary to today, to be rebuilt, so could be racy)
<didrocks> can someone with gitlab CI skills like Ken look at this?
<jamesh> didrocks: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/triggers/#making-use-of-trigger-variables says we can pass variables with the manual trigger
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, so if Ken could set that up in his job and have the build script in gtk-common-build consuming that to retarget the source that would be awesome!
<jamesh> so we could potentially have the gitlab side CI build a particular ref and publish to a particular branch
<didrocks> yep!
<didrocks> the only thing is the race, we aren't ship both yaru and gtk-common-themes will be built with the exact same commit
<didrocks> but I guess that's ok
<didrocks> jamesh: is there any way for us to have access to those gitlab CI build accesss?
<didrocks> access*
<jamesh> didrocks: well, we could have the CI  build a particular ref
<didrocks> I won't be able to have a look this week, isntaller work is priority
<duflu> Hi didrocks, jamesh
<didrocks> but I should be able next week
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> jamesh: yeah, I need to look on how to get the correct refs from github hook
<didrocks> and I don't think github has native gitlab CI build :p
<jamesh> didrocks: I don't have sufficient access on gitlab.gnome.org's Ubuntu group to tweak it unfortunately (I needed Ken to enable CI on a repo last time)
<didrocks> but doesn't sound too complicated when using the Travis CI build to trigger the gitlab one
<jamesh> hi duflu
<didrocks> jamesh: do you mind checking that I have all neeed access with Ken next time you talk to him? I'll put that on my next week list and won't have to chase the creds
<jamesh> didrocks: I think you probably do: https://gitlab.gnome.org/groups/Community/Ubuntu/-/group_members
<jamesh> you're listed as "Owner", while I'm "Developer"
<didrocks> jamesh: unsure if CI access are the same than project one in gitlab world, but yeah
<jamesh> IIRC, it is.
<jamesh> It's a lot more integrated than gitlab+travis
<didrocks> jamesh: ok, let's sync back on that next week, I'll copy this discussion on the bug for reference
<didrocks> sounds good to you?
<jamesh> sounds good!
<didrocks> thanks ;)
<jamesh> we should just be careful in the mean time that anything we promote from edge is a gitlab build
<jamesh> didrocks: one other thing that you might want to look at: I want to change how we make the "communitheme" name available from gtk-common-themes - https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gtk-common-themes/merge_requests/8
<gitbot> Ubuntu issue (Merge request) 8 in gtk-common-themes "snap: point communitheme at Yaru via symlinks or theme inheritance" [Opened]
<jibel> Good morning
<jamesh> this effectively stops copying files from the communitheme snap and instead just uses Yaru.
<didrocks> jamesh: well, I'll let Ken/OsoMoN reviewing it and then, work from that
<jamesh> didrocks: it would make the trigger idea a lot more workable: it removes the need to wait for communitheme to publish before building gtk-common-themes
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<Trevinho> morning europe
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, Trevinho
<didrocks> jamesh: got it!
<didrocks> jamesh: quick review and +1, but I would like someone to test it on bionic
<jibel> Laney, hi, I verified bug 1743216 with the test case in the description and perl still crashes
<ubot5> bug 1743216 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu Bionic) "perl crashed with SIGABRT in _dbus_abort()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1743216
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> morning
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<andyrock> morning!
<willcooke> morning
<duflu> Good morning andyrock, willcooke
<duflu> and Laney
<Laney> jibel: just checked and it looks ok for me https://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/xdg-utils.webm
<Laney> hey seb128 andyrock willcooke duflu jibel
<Laney> I'm good, watched some fireworks last night
<seb128> nice! what was the occasion for the fireworks?
<Laney> some guy failed to overthrow the protestant king
<Laney> by blowing parliament up
<ginggs> some guy with a V for Vendetta mask :))-
<Laney> so we celebrate by blowing other stuff up
<Laney> and burning things
<Laney> yep, he was an alan moore fan i heard
<seb128> :)
<willcooke> I saw a tweet the other day that said something along the lines of "I'm sure that history will forgive and forget the Brexiteers.  Anyway, I'm off to burn the effigy of a man who dies 412 years ago"
<Laney> :D
<jibel> Laney, hm, let me try again. Maybe I didn't update xdg-screensaver correctly
<jibel> Laney, ah
<jibel> Laney, I added the line after the decode lol
<jibel> okay it's fine then
<Laney> haha
<Laney> my description could have been clearer to be fair
<Laney> thx!
<jibel> and with the verification of evince, pending desktop sru are done
<Laney> was hoping somebody experiencing that bug "for real" was going to come along
<Laney> ah well
<Laney> cheers for doing it
<seb128> thx jibel for the SRU verifications!
<Laney> Trevinho: I added you to the u-c-c team now :-)
<didrocks> how lucky Trevinho is :)
<seb128> jamesh, weekly status update? ;)
<jamesh> seb128: gar.  I started writing it but hadn't saved it.  I'll finish it off now
<seb128> jamesh, thx
<seb128> the website usually save your edit even if you close the page I think
<duflu> seb128, I think the ball is rolling on all bb-things of mine. But that email thread is too complex and I don't want to make it worse. Will check again tomorrow
<seb128> duflu, k, but feel free to reply with your bit if you want, I think it's fine for that email discussion to be active
<ahasenack> hi, do you (desktop) own ubuntu-wallpapers? There is this MP out there: https://code.launchpad.net/~illia-v/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+git/ubuntu-wallpapers/+merge/356434
<ahasenack> I'll remove the server team from it, but would like to add an appropriate team
<ahasenack> hm, I can't remove the server team (my team)
<Laney> ahasenack: suggest pinging jbicha, the previous reviewer
<ahasenack> but he was tagged as "community", which happens when the person is not a member of the existing review slots. I'm thinking generally who should review ubuntu-wallpapers
<jbicha> ahasenack: the authoritative VCS for ubuntu-wallpapers is https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-wallpapers/ubuntu
<jbicha> good morning
<ahasenack> hi jbicha
<ahasenack> jbicha: ok, I'm adding that team to a review slot
<ahasenack> sounds appropriate
<andyrock> lunch time \o/
<Wimpress> kenvandine: Yo
<Wimpress> kenvandine: When using the desktop-qt5 desktop helper, xdg-user-dirs are not mapped in the home directory?
<Wimpress> Is this expected?
<kenvandine> Wimpress: it's not expected...
<seb128> Alright
<seb128> it's meeting time!
<kenvandine> Wimpress: that was broken for a bit but Trevinho fixed it last week
<kenvandine> Wimpress: is it a snap that was recently rebuilt?
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-11-06
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  6 14:31:33 2018 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-11-06 | Current topic:
<andyrock> o/
<oSoMoN> \o
<didrocks> hey o/
<tseliot> o/
<Trevinho>  /o
<jibel> hi
<seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out), tjaalton, tseliot
<heber> o/
<Trevinho> ð¤
<kenvandine> o/
<kenvandine> Wimpress: not merged yet, https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/164
<gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 164 in snapcraft-desktop-helpers "desktop-exports: Fixes and improvements for XDG dirs generations" [Open]
<kenvandine> sorry, back to the meeting :)
<seb128> Happy first D-has-a-name-now-disco meeting :)
<seb128> so let's get started
<seb128> new format still feels a bit weird to me :p
<seb128> #topic rls bugs review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-11-06 | Current topic: rls bugs review
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> one bug, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1778946
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1778946 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No dns resolution after closing a vpn/pptp connection" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tjaalton> o/
<willcooke> That's on me to provide more logs.  There is a temporary work around, which is not a fix, but unsticks people who need it
<willcooke> I will try and get those logs today
<seb128> it's an issue with -pptp only which we don't install by default
<seb128> on a non LTS cycle
<seb128> I would vote for -notfixing
<seb128> we can still fix it, but no need to target imho
<seb128> opinions?
<willcooke> I agree that we dont need to target it
<willcooke> and there is a sort-of-workaround for now
<seb128> good, let's -notfixing then
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the bugs on that list are assigned and being worked on
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1799614 was missing the assignee, done that now
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1799614 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Bionic) "Use new media API" [High,In progress]
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entries there
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> I reviewed the list yesterday and we are getting things sorted out, a few items to review here
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-file-utils/+bug/1768271
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1768271 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu) "sudo update-desktop-database results in "font/ttf" is an invalid MIME type ("font" is an unregistered media type)" [Low,In progress]
<seb128> it's only a warning, I'm going to have a look at fixing it but I don't think it needs to be targetted
<seb128> so I vote -notfixing
<seb128> opinions?
<didrocks> The Error is scary, but if it's only a warningâ¦
<Trevinho> agree
<seb128> oh, well, in fact it's targetted so I can as well deal with it... taking it :)
<Laney> it is targeted
<Laney> maybe jbicha did that for a reason
<seb128> right, I'm just going to backport the commit so let's consider it handled
<seb128> next
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1795169
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1795169 in firefox (Ubuntu Bionic) "Focus switches constantly between username and password fields" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> oSoMoN, you nominated it but it has no assignee ... do you plan to work on that?
<oSoMoN> yes
<seb128> k, so I do assign it
<Trevinho> mh I added one to bb-incoming yesterday, but didn't show up apparently.... well can wait one more week :) [problem is now I can't find the # -_-]
<seb128> I listed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libdrm/+bug/1798597
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798597 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Bionic) "Backport packages for 18.04.2 HWE stack" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> but I think that's just an understood item and needs to be assigned to tjaalton
<seb128> I'm doing that
<tjaalton> seb128: I'm already assigned
<seb128> tjaalton, to one component only :)
<tjaalton> not enough?
<seb128> the reporting tools are not clever
<tjaalton> k
<seb128> Trevinho, did you find it back?
<seb128> otherwise next week
<Trevinho> nope, still looking... but yeag
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-11-06 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> any other topic?
<dgadomski> yeah, I have something
<dgadomski> I'd appreciate anybody reviewing the merge proposal for bug #1755490
<ubot5> bug 1755490 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Incorrect information about display shown in unity-control-center" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755490
<Trevinho> wondering what typo I did...
<andyrock> Trevinho: check your email
<seb128> Trevinho, on what component was it?
<seb128> dgadomski, I can have a look this week, adding to my backlog
<Trevinho> mutter, but no worries I will add for next week
<dgadomski> thanks seb128
<Trevinho> didrocks: I can also look that
<seb128> np!
<seb128> any other topic?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<andyrock> nope
<seb128> k, seems like it's a wrap then
<seb128> thanks everyone
<Trevinho> yep
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/RHiGQXZJ/ubuntu-desktop-1904-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  6 14:49:42 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-11-06-14.31.moin.txt
<Trevinho> thanks
<oSoMoN> thanks
 * Trevinho back to bed xD 
<Trevinho> this timezone isn't the nicest for the meeting :D
<seb128> Trevinho, night
<seb128> Trevinho, oh, don't feel like you need to get up if it doesn't work with your tz
<Trevinho> well, it's at 8.30, I can try to make it for few weeks
<seb128> :)
<jbicha> seb128: I applied the desktop-file-utils font fix in Debian so you can merge it if you like
<seb128> jbicha, thx
<jbicha> the warning annoyed me for a while but I hadn't tracked down how to fix it earlier
<seb128> didrocks, your changes from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-file-utils/0.23-3ubuntu2 did you just forgot to bzr push and still have them? or should Ijust import the upload for you while I'm doing my merge with Debian?
<didrocks> oh, I maybe forgot them, let me have a look
<didrocks> seb128: no, I don't have the bzr changes anymore, should have been in tmp dir
<didrocks> feel free to just reimport the upload
<seb128> k, thx
<willcooke> kenvandine, oSoMoN: https://meet.google.com/uxr-ygvj-mkc?authuser=0
<oSoMoN> willcooke, kenvandine: https://git.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/+git/snap-from-source/tree/snapcraft.yaml?h=dev#n208
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<tsimonq2> oSoMoN: Heya, just making sure you're aware that I'm doing a LibreOffice SRU for Cosmic.
<tsimonq2> If you want me to push my changes anywhere in Launchpad (VCS) just let me know.
<Laney> Trevinho: what is the plan for gnome-shell ubuntu/master do you know?
<Laney> there's some yaru stuff, the bugs are updated for sru but it's not uploaded
<Laney> Can't really do that SRU until bug #1745888 is fixed in disco at least
<ubot5> bug 1745888 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Two instances of a program launch whenever you touch a favorites icon" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745888
<Laney> got to go, will look back tomorrow
<Trevinho> Laney: mh I thought I proposed for both.. Let me check
<seb128> tsimonq2, would be best to sync up with the maintainer before doing a SRU, not after
<oSoMoN> tsimonq2, yeah, like seb128 said
<oSoMoN> tsimonq2, the timing is not great as Iâve pushed 6.1.3 to disco and will prepare a SRU for cosmic, but I'll make sure to retain your patch
<tsimonq2> ...does nobody have an IRC bouncer? ;)
<tsimonq2> Anyway, if oSoMoN and/or seb128 are reading the logs, I did coordinate the patch beforehand with oSoMoN when it was being handled upstream, and I did express my plans to SRU it to Cosmic...
<tsimonq2> Either way though, bug 1799001.
<ubot5> bug 1799001 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Theming does not work on LXQt" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1799001
<tsimonq2> I'd rather get this verified and out the door before starting it over with a new version, though.
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, ok as per gnome-shell, branches have been merged, but no one did  a release yet... So, I think you can just finalize it and sponsor, and then proceed with the SRU too.
<Trevinho> that was my expectation though :)
<Trevinho> Laney: also as per glib, this is hitting quite hard nautilus... Do you think is worth waiting for a next glib point release or just include this to our packaging https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/issues/1588 ?
<gitbot> GNOME issue 1588 in glib "Moving a bookmark item to the same URI causes a crash" [1. Crash, Gbookmarkfile, Closed]
<Trevinho> kenvandine: hey can you please publish https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3448 ?
<kenvandine> Trevinho: i'll look
<Trevinho> kenvandine: thanks :)
<kenvandine> Trevinho: this doesn't look right
<kenvandine> -               libgnome-desktop-3-dev (>= 3.27.3),
<kenvandine> +               libgnome-desktop-3-dev (>= 3.5.91),
<Trevinho> oh...
<Trevinho> right
<kenvandine> or is 3.5.91 what it actually cares about?
<kenvandine> seems unlikely
<Trevinho> let me see the mp
<Trevinho> probably some merge issue
<kenvandine> -GNOME_DESKTOP_REQUIRED_VERSION=3.27.3
<kenvandine> +GNOME_DESKTOP_REQUIRED_VERSION=3.5.91
<kenvandine> Trevinho: also seems odd
<Trevinho> kenvandine: thanks for spotting, i've asked here https://code.launchpad.net/~khurshid-alam/unity-control-center/sharing-panel/+merge/341306
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-07
<jibel> Good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> Salut didrocks , Ã§a va?
<duflu> Hi jibel + didrocks
<jibel> Hi duflu
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va et toi ?
<didrocks> hey duflu
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va bien
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Laney> yo
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hey Laney and seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how is the hacking going today?
<duflu> seb128, incredibly frustrating (upstream made a few conflicts for me today) but now very fruitful. How are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning Laney, seb128
<duflu> Although the frustration also came from community testing discussions
<duflu> And it came from knowing I need to finish on time to cook dinner tonight, and will be away tomorrow. Everything is my own making in a way
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<seb128> duflu, well, if things get ready friday or next week rather than today it's no big deal, we are early in the cycle and their is no freeze or anything pending, just relax and go cook dinner
<Laney> morning seb128 duflu oSoMoN
<Laney> whats up
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<willcooke> oSoMoN, thanks for testing with Sogou, its great to hear it works!
<oSoMoN> yeah, I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't require any tweaking
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> who here has an "airplane mode" key on their laptop keyboard?
<willcooke> seb128, I have a "wifi off" button
<seb128> willcooke, I'm not sure it's the same? it's to test/debug bug #1740894
<ubot5> bug 1740894 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu Cosmic) "KEY_RFKILL is not passed to userspace" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740894
<seb128> the xkeyboard-config SRU makes the key being handled, but apparently then getting out of airplane mode fails
<willcooke> if I run xev I should see KEY_RFKILL right?
<seb128> though your key might trigger the same mode
<willcooke> reading the bug
<seb128> willcooke, well, it's easy, it's basically "using the key should toggle airplane mode on/off"
<seb128> though the reporter here seems to have an issue where the second use doesn't success to toggle it off
<willcooke> my key works fine, so I guess I can't reproduce
<seb128> k, might be hardware specific
<seb128> willcooke, thx for testing
<seb128> Laney, ^ that mentions XPS, maybe you could give it a try see if yours behaves the same way?
<Laney> seb128: the rfkill key?
<Laney> it works, I use it often
<Laney> mainly to toggle NM when it craps itself :-)
<Laney> oh yeah, I am on wayland tho
<Laney> hello from x
<Laney> the key still works, sorry :(
<jibel> seb128, what's the naming convention for blueprints?
<jibel> seb128, would desktop-dd-<project_name> be fine?
<seb128> jibel, yes, that sounds fine as naming
<seb128> Laney, weird :/ what keycode does it generate? our xkeyboard-config didn't have the definition of rkfill so it shouldn't be working
<seb128> or maybe it's handled at the hardware level ... but g-s-d is supposed to inhibit the kernel handling
<Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g6T7RNrtDZ/ that's what xev says
<seb128> no KeyPress KeyRelease events, weird
<Laney> don't get those for other osd keys either
<Laney> probably the osd grabs focus
<seb128> the debug comments on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-settings-daemon/issues/90 have the events
<gitbot> GNOME issue 90 in gnome-settings-daemon "Airplane mode key on Asus ZenBook Flip UX561UD laptop not working in gnome-shell 3.30 (X or Wayland) but working on console. (Ubuntu Cosmic 18.10)" [3. Not Gnome, Closed]
<seb128> unsure what's different
<Laney> or g-s-d has grabbed the key or something
<seb128> I wonder if it means g-s-d is bailing out from inhibiting the kernel handling for you
<seb128> and so the key is being handled low level
<Laney> would expect to see it for volume up/down no?
<seb128> unless it's the same and hardware handled on the xps
<seb128> I don't remember exactly how those are working :/
<seb128> well, thx for trying :)
<Laney> If I map them to another key it still gives me the same events
<seb128> I do get a keyrelease event here with the volume
<seb128> but no keypress
<seb128> weird
<seb128> KeyRelease event, serial 38, synthetic NO, window 0x5000001,
<seb128>     root 0xf7, subw 0x0, time 23588627, (-28,858), root:(1318,910),
<seb128>     state 0x10, keycode 122 (keysym 0x1008ff11, XF86AudioLowerVolume), same_screen YES,
<seb128> that's under and xorg session, not wayland
<Laney> i'm on xorg now
<seb128> k
<seb128> well I don't know enough about that stack to have a guess at the difference between the systems
<seb128> the bug is also not that important, I'm just going to put it on the side for now
<seb128> thx for poking though!
<Laney> I could see if the SRUed package makes it worse for me too
<seb128> it would be useful to see if it creates a difference in the xev/g-s-d handling at least
<Laney> seems more buggy with respect to coming out of airplane mode now
<Laney> also my key sends XF86WLAN now XF86RFKill, that's probably why it worked
<Laney> s/now/not/
<seb128> ok, so you at least confirm the regression
<Laney> seems so :<
<seb128> I'm confused though
<seb128> the diff is https://launchpadlibrarian.net/394768060/xkeyboard-config_2.23.1-1ubuntu1_2.23.1-1ubuntu1.18.10.1.diff.gz
<seb128> it shouldn't impact on your key since the symbol it's using was already define before that change
<Laney> all very weird
<seb128> yeah, exactly my though :)
<seb128> +t
<andyrock> Laney: do snaps have access to /run
<andyrock> ?
<Laney> dunno
<andyrock> Laney: otherwise the boot-id seems like a good idea but in the short-term we still that workaround
<Laney> good old short-term workarounds :-)
<seb128> andyrock, jdstrand probably knows
<andyrock> I'll keep that in mind when I'll rewrite the way canonical-livepatch updates the status file (we need that anyway)
<seb128> oh I see you asked on #snappy
<seb128> probably a better idea :)
<andyrock> Laney: I know but we really want that fixed in the short-term :P
<jdstrand> andyrock: what in /run do you want access to? (the short answer is that /run is (for the most part) /run from the host, but security policy limit what you can access there)
<andyrock> jdstrand: yeah I got  the same answer in #snappy
<Laney> andyrock: sure, I didn't try to stop you fixing it
<Laney> I was more hinting that I bet this code still exists in 5 years
<Laney> it's like the curse you bring down when you call something "short term" :P
<andyrock> ð
<andyrock> seb128: Laney: so it looks like that we can use /run/user/0/snap.canonical-livepatch/status
<seb128> except the issue Jamie just pointed out :p
<andyrock> ah countermand
<seb128> well, that's an ongoing discuss/item for this cycle, if you say the status file code needs updating anyway
<seb128> meanwhile the update-notifier "temporary" solution will do...
<Laney> the lifetime of that directory is not right
<andyrock> Laney: is not per boot?
<seb128> it's linked to the active session?
<Laney> your xdg runtime directory gets removed when your last session ends
<seb128> right, well there is no active session atm for those snaps
<seb128> which is the issue Jamie was pointing you, /run/user/0 doesn't exist
<Laney> ok, but it's not right even if it did
<seb128> yeah, it should probably just be a file under /run
<Laney> anyway
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> thx for the input Laney!
<Laney> I usually try to propose nicer solutions if I see them
<Laney> often they get ignored
<Laney> that is life
<Laney> ignored / not done
<andyrock> can you argue that in #snappy
<Laney> is there an argument ongoing?
<Laney> if it were me I'd probably file a bug on livepatch asking if they think that is a good idea in the first place, as a first step
<Laney> well, assuming there is a bug tracker for that thing :P
<seb128> no much "arguing" no, discussing potential ways to provide what is needed
<Laney> cool
<seb128> but yeah, at this point best in a bug report
<seb128> andyrock, let me know the bug number once you have it filed :)
<Laney> it's a way to track the issue without having to spend a lot of time on it now or interrupt anyone
<Laney> and if you can get it on a backlog, possibly even worked on at some point ;-)
<seb128> zyg_a says they could add access to /run/snap.<SNAP_NAME> and maybe to it for the next .1
<Laney> that would be nice
<Laney> on that note, I have some avocado to eat
<Laney> BYE
<seb128> s/to it/do it/
<seb128> Laney, enjoy!
<Laney> big tasty
<willcooke> kenvandine, you around for a quick call with diddledan?
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> 5 minutes?
<willcooke> kenvandine, cancel that, thx
<kenvandine> willcooke: ok, just give me a shout if you need me
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<CarlenWhite> Huh. Got hit with a nasty lockup and didn't get a kernel panic screen. Picture just stuck and played a bit of sound in repeat.
<seb128> Laney, btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1802112 if you were interested by the details of that discussion
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1802112 in snapd "Snaps can't write to /run by default" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> nice, that went quite smoothly
<Laney> how does XDG_RUNTIME_DIR even work for snaps?
<Laney> do they have to make it and set up like the wayland socket and stuff themselves?
 * Laney read the launch script, looks like it
<Laney> https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/wayland-dconf-and-xdg-runtime-dir/186
<Laney> went a bit quiet though
<willcooke> wheeeeee: https://imgur.com/a/jbV2eaH
<andyrock> ð
<andyrock> willcooke: I can take a look
<andyrock> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1797205 do we want this in cosmic?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797205 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:g_type_check_instance:g_signal_handlers_block_matched:als_enabled_state_changed:ffi_call_unix64:ffi_call" [High,In progress]
<Laney> that one is filed somewhere
<Laney> it actually doesn't happen for me any more on cosmic
<willcooke> andyrock, not urgent, but I logged a bug anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1802139
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1802139 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Typing a long password in to the polkit dialog causes the dots to overflow the input field" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> could be 86a520b880808ad18d397ab8e7a7a05b1a8b4e4c
<willcooke> yeah, sounds like it could help
<willcooke> https://git.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/commit/?id=86a520b880808ad18d397ab8e7a7a05b1a8b4e4c
<andyrock> That reminds me that I get a crash when closing that dialog on gnome-shell upstream
<Laney> it's ba33a05dd27e1c23bfcfbd4ac06fcb0d6e06ebf4 in the 3.28 branch, queued up for the next stable release
<Laney> plenty of fixes in there :/
<andyrock> :/ is for the fixes or because it's taking to lot to release the next 3.28.x ?
<Laney> fixes are :D
<Laney> not having them is :/
<Laney> it is UNACCEPTABLE for it to be dark at this time too
<andyrock> dsl is :/
<andyrock> *dst
<willcooke> I concur
<seb128> willcooke, bug #1797205 doesn't have many reports so far so need to SRU imho but if we do one for other fixes we can include that one
<ubot5> bug 1797205 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:g_type_check_instance:g_signal_handlers_block_matched:als_enabled_state_changed:ffi_call_unix64:ffi_call" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797205
<andyrock> kk
<Laney> it's in the branch, will get it naturally if we do the update
<Laney> in 3.30.2 even, already out
<andyrock> just asking because it has been in the "in review" trello list for too much
<andyrock> maybe we need a list "waiting for release"
<Laney> you could help it along by preparing the SRU ;-)
<andyrock> Laney: sure thing
<andyrock> let me prepare a mp to release in D before
<Laney> cool
<Laney> should be the same except changelog and control probably
<andyrock> I'll do debian unstable too
<Laney> nice one
<Laney> I can review that tomorrow
 * Laney uploads more bits to the systemd-user ppa
<Laney> backporting this stuff to the package is so irritating
<Laney> I should be doing it in git, at least then it would remember how to resolve the conflicts
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, popey:Â FYI, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505593
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1505593 in Untriaged "[snap] Update prompt does nothing" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: thanks
 * oSoMoN is off to bed and to a long week-end, see ya all next week
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-08
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<didrocks> hello jibel
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<Laney> hi
<seb128> hey Laney! wie gehts?
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> doin' goooooooooooooooooood
<Laney> looks like a nice day!
<Laney> what about you?
<Wimpress> Morning desktopers
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
<seb128> Laney, doing good! I had tennis lesson yesterday, it's nice and sunny today and I just manage to sponsor nautilus fixes from Marco without hitting any git stone on the way :p
<Laney> truly one for the CV
<andyrock> good morning!
<seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
<seb128> tseliot, hey! sorry about the extra email rounds on that nvidia SRU, I'm not familiar with those drivers and they versioning and the difference between e.g -361 -375 -390, so I looked a thing from a wrong angle at first. You are right that this issue is not need, I followed up now and hopefully it's good enough to unblock the SRU
<andyrock> seb128: good thanks. Planning to prepare a gjs upload to make "gnome-shell --replace" work again
<andyrock> seb128: what about you?
<seb128> woot
<seb128> that was an small diff from what I saw to adapt to some mozjs changes, right?
<seb128> I'm good :)
<tseliot> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> is not *new*
<andyrock> seb128: yeah. We also need another fix from Trevinho
<andyrock> seb128: not sure if I need to that in salsa before
<andyrock> wdyt?
<seb128> andyrock, there are also some leak fixes in the stable serie so it might be worth doing the point update
<seb128> you don't *need* to
<andyrock> seb128: can we SRU the full release to cosmic?
<seb128> it's a point bug fix release so I would say yes
<seb128> but I'm not the expert in that stack and I don't know how well tested their updates and how risky it can be
<seb128> we can always try, we have the testing in proposed for that :)
<andyrock> kk I'll ask ptomato if I can do a point release once he's online
<seb128> andyrock, well there is one, a .2
<andyrock> seb128: not enough
<andyrock> seb128: otherwise I can do a .2 + my fix
<seb128> that's what I was suggesting
<seb128> there is no commit in https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/commits/gnome-3-30 since .2
<seb128> so imho no need to point them for another tarball
<seb128> just do .2 + your fix
<andyrock> kk, I'll propose my fix in gnome-3-30 branch
<Laney> if that fix affects the 3.30 branch then it ought to be taken into it as well
<Laney> indeed
<andyrock> Laney: yeah
<andyrock> debian already got the .2
<seb128> right, I was not arguing against having it commited to stable upstream
<seb128> just maybe that's not worth pushing for a new release by itself
<seb128> anyway, you guys know how to sort that out :)
<andyrock> I can merge from debian and add my fix
<seb128> Laney, you said you would do the g-c-c update review in salsa for andyrock right? do you plan to handle the cosmic SRU as well?
<seb128> (if not I add that to my backlog)
<andyrock> I can prepare the branches for D and for the SRU
<Laney> I did, that's all going to be the same I hope
<seb128> great, thx
<Laney> pls
<Laney> andyrock: gjs is in sync, please propose to salsa too
<andyrock> Laney: sure
<andyrock> regarding g-c-c I added a commit that we forgot to push to gnome-3-30 branch before the point release
<andyrock> it's merged now so we're going to get in the next point release if any
<andyrock> I'm preparing an upload to mutter with https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/commit/1d863f4d3e102c3100ca879224a2d0c6dcb45674
<andyrock> to salsa
<andyrock> maybe that's enough to fix the "gnome-shell --replace" even without the gjs changes
<andyrock> because Marco want me to include also the commit here in gjs: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gjs/merge_requests/240/commits
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 240 in gjs "Fix ParamSpec refcounting" [Closed]
<Laney> comes a point when a release is better
<andyrock> yeah I'll talk to ptomato and ask him to do a point release with those fixes
<seb128> andyrock, Laney, snapd change to allow /run/snap.$snapname is merged in master now :)
<Laney> what a world
<Laney> !
<andyrock> \o/
<andyrock> we still need to wait for it to be released in bionic
<Laney> autotooooooollllllllllsssssssss
<seb128> andyrock, update-notifier looks fine to me now and I tested it works fine (I tested on a file where I changed the timestamp to be 1 day ago, knowing I rebooted this morning, and it didn't display the notification again)
<seb128> so I can sponsor if Laney is +1 as well
<andyrock> nice, thx for reviews
<andyrock> both of you <3
<Laney> how does that fix fix the second warning?
<Laney> oh
<Laney> they were both warnings from g_strdup_printf(), I thought one of them was from ngettext()
<seb128> right
<andyrock> we could also do "1 bla bla"
<andyrock> instead of "% lu" for the first case
 * Laney misunderstood the "yes"
<Laney> good if it doesn't warn, kind of expected it to do so
 * Laney looks quickly
<Laney> I should fix spice-vdagent for systemd --user, sucks losing that functionality
<didrocks> yes please! :)
<Laney> :>
<seb128> andyrock, k, your got one extra round of polish to do for L_aney and we are good to upload :)
<andyrock> seb128: Laney: oh I would got with this check "if (num_updates != 0 && errno == 0)"
<andyrock> setting errno before to 0
<andyrock> num_updates will be 0 if we have "applied 0" or "applied invalid-number"
<andyrock> and errno will be != 0 if there was an overflow or something else
<seb128> andyrock, that would probably work as well yes
<Laney> I prefer positive error checking, going by what the documentation says
<Laney> but if you feel strongly then that's fine
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rGwGLvXI/
<andyrock> Laney: ^^^
<Laney> andyrock: I'd probably make those separate variables so the code is more readable, but up to you - looks good to me!
<Laney> ð
<andyrock> tomorrow <3
<andyrock> EOD for me
<Laney> me too
<Laney> CLIMBING TIME ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§ð§
<JanC> is gnome-shell crashing often a known issue in cosmic?
<sarnold> I've heard it's easy for extensions to crash it -- if you have any extensions enabled, try disabling them
<JanC> egh?
<JanC> JavaScript causing a segfault sounds like a big issue to me...
<JanC> big security issue too...
<sarnold> that's one reason why we (security team) said "no" to the MIR to let browsers install shell extensions with one click
<JanC> as opposed to just showing up in the software installer where they look "trusted"?
<sarnold> yes; hopefully someone from debian and or ubuntu's read the ones we ship
<JanC> you mean those in Gnome's repository?
<JanC> because that's where it pulls them from...
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-09
<sarnold> oh. ew.
<JanC> there are some in the APT repositories too, of course, but it shows all those in the GNOME shell extension repository too
<JanC> but really, why are JS extensions allowed to segfault the shell? you'd think the main reason to use JS is to avoid that...
<jbicha> sarnold: yeah Add-ons > Shell Extensions pulls directly from https://extensions.gnome.org/ & doesn't include .deb packaged extensions
<sarnold> thanks jbicha
<JanC> (BTW: I suspect it's the indicator extension (which is installed by default) causing the crashes...)
<jbicha> JanC: what's the basis for your suspicion? :)
<jbicha> anyway, if you have logs or something, please file a bug
<JanC> the basis is that I launched an application that puts an icon there the last time it crashed, and I think that have happened the time before it too (but I wasn't really paying attention then)
<JanC> I'll have to go look how I can find gnome shell logs then...
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks and good morning everyone
<didrocks> salut jibel !
<duflu> Salut jibel, didrocks
<jibel> Hi duflu
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> hey again desktopers
<seb128> going to drop offline for ~45min, going to a coworking space with some GNOME upstream/RH people
<Laney> hey ho
<duflu> Hi seb128, Laney
<Laney> happy friday duflu
<Laney> I trust you'll be In Da Club in approximately 1 hour
<duflu> I never left
<duflu> Who wants another drink?
<Laney> ð¸
<duflu> Reminds me of the first startup I joined. Friday lunchtime was the end of the day
<Laney> Sounds nice in and of itself
<Laney> Unless you end up working more at other times
<duflu> Laney, should MRs to salsa add changelog info?
<duflu> Well the only other one right now does, so assuming yet
<duflu> *yes
<Laney> People do it differently. When it's *my* changes I usually don't, and use gbp dch when preparing the final upload.
<Laney> I don't think the GNOME team has a general policy on it
<seb128> & back online from co-working space!
<seb128> how is friday going around here?
<duflu> Hi seb128
<duflu> Bye seb128
<duflu> Night
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> bit cold today, storm might be coming :-o
<Laney> how's the place? who are you with?
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, it's a very cool hackerspace, https://revspace.nl/Main_Page
<seb128> they have people doing electronic hacks, 3d printing, working wood, etc etc etc :)
<seb128> I'm with carlos and hans and another guy from RH who does more toolchain&co type of things
<Laney> nice!
<Laney> I went to the hackspace near us a couple of weeks ago
<Laney> lot of cool stuff that I wouldn't know how to use :P
<seb128> Laney, so, that airplaine mode seems a double key event issue, at least for me on the inspiron, can you try on your xps if it does the same?
<Laney> how?
<seb128> Laney, basically with the xkeyboard-config update if you would "sudo evemu-record", pick the keyboard
<seb128> press the key and see if you get double events when pressing the key
<Laney> ok, I need to restart I guess :<
<seb128> if you reverted from the SRU package yes
<seb128> can be later if you don't want to restart now
<seb128> I can also put the instruction in the launchpad bug so you do when it's convenient for you
<Laney> which bug is that?
<Laney> not https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1740894
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1740894 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu Cosmic) "KEY_RFKILL is not passed to userspace" [Low,Fix committed]
<seb128> yes, that's this one
<seb128> well that's the xkeyboard-config SRU one that leads to the problem
<seb128> I'm going to open a systemd upstream bug for the issue on inspiron
<seb128> Hans wanted debug input from a xps to make sure the issue was the same
<Laney> I mean I don't see instructions on there
<seb128> right, I said "I can also put the instructions..."
<Laney> oh ok
<seb128> I didn't do that yet :p
<Laney> yes please
<Laney> you probably want it from that guy too
<Laney> seb128: https://paste.debian.net/1051079/
<seb128> Laney, done, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1740894/comments/25 including "test a fix"
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1740894 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu Cosmic) "KEY_RFKILL is not passed to userspace" [Low,Fix committed]
<Laney> I think that broke airplane mode for me
<Laney> no it didn't, but I don't see the osd now for some reason
<Laney> now it looks like https://paste.debian.net/1051083/
<seb128> hum
<seb128> Laney, do you have a "DELL Wirless hotkeys" or such input device listed in evemu-record?
<seb128> if so what events does that list now?
<Laney> WMI hotkeys
<Laney> is it that?
<seb128> no
<Laney> then no
<seb128> k, so I guess the situation is different on the XPS :/
<seb128> let me check with Hans
<Laney> it was never broken for me
<seb128> I though you said yesterday that with the xkeyboard-config SRU you couldn't re-enable it either
<seb128> I mean getting off of airplane mode with the binding
<Laney> oh yeah
<Laney> well I'm online now so it seems to be ok today?!?!?!?!?!
<Laney> maybe I messed something up
<seb128> you still have the xkeyboard-config SRU version right?
<Laney> xkb-data:
<Laney>   Installed: 2.23.1-1ubuntu1.18.10.1
<seb128> yes
<Laney> ah, that's a fake statement to make though since I'm connected through a cable atm
<Laney> one second
<Laney> ok just got out of airplane mode
<Laney> on wifi
<Laney> that's still with the hwdb change, let me revert that now
<Laney> back again
<Laney> probably screwed something up yesterday
<seb128> well, your issue seems different, I misread the evemu record, your only have one event by press
<Laney> "E: KEYBOARD_KEY_88=!wlan" is what it has without that change btw
<seb128> it's key press/release
<Laney> not sure any more that I have an issue
<seb128> k
<seb128> thx for testing
<Laney> except that the hwdb thing changes what gnome-shell shows in some way
<seb128> let's see from those users on the bug
<seb128> right
<Laney> I've no clue what it means or does
<seb128> well on the inspiron there is a "DELL Wireless hotkeys" input device
<Laney> FFS the default cursor speed in the X session is too slooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww
<seb128> so the keyboard and that special device both generate events
<seb128> that rules made it tell generate events as coming from an unknown key on the keyboard
<Laney> ah
<Laney> so for me then something else other than g-s-d was handling rfkill or something?
<seb128> yes, likely kernel/hardware level
<seb128> which is why you didn't get the osd either, it took it out from the gsd layer
<Laney> that makes sense
<Laney> you see it on the inspiron though?
<Laney> oh yeah the SRU totally makes airplane mode worse on the inspiron here
<seb128> right (sorry we were making tostis so afk)
<seb128> your inspiron is the same model than mine? (3138)
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> mmm tostis
 * Laney is hungry
<seb128> :)
<seb128> k, calling it a day/week (going to work a bit offline still during the half an hour tram back)
<seb128> have a nice w.e!
<jbicha> aw, just missed him
<Laney> happy weekend
 * Laney waves
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-11-11
<tomreyn> does it generally make sense to report any of these many stack traces we all got on journalctl --user with gnome3? or should we wait more?
<jbicha> Laney: could you push your packaging to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-bad1.0/+git/gst-plugins-bad1.0 ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-04
<didrocks> good morning
<marcustomlinson> morning didrocks and seb128
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, didrocks, had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey seb128, good week-end, yourself?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: yeah was alright, rainy, mostly relaxing, you?
<seb128> w.e was good, we went for 3 days in the North of France to visit my gf's family, was mostly relaxing (& rainy as well)
<didrocks> yeah, rain is all over the place apparently
<seb128> hum, so I did a few 19.10 installs in the past week, and keyboard selection seems buggy, dunno if others hit that before?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> I select french/french alternative, typing in the entry behind the selection it's azerty
<seb128> but then on the user account page it's back to qwerty
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> didn't notice that and I have made multiple french/gaelic installations tests on the final isos
<seb128> which I didn't notice first time because my username doesn't hit keys that are differents, but the password did and I couldn't log in after install (until I though about trying to type it the qwerty way)
<didrocks> both live/ubiquity-only
<didrocks> but I may have been in the same case than you
<seb128> did you enter an username/password with a [azm]? :)
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had a good w.e?
<didrocks> yeah, I'm doing random users for iso testing, but I probably didn't hit those
<seb128> I tend to do 'ubuntu/ubuntu' :p
<didrocks> or u/u even :p
<didrocks> if it's something I'm going to trash
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? t'as passÃ© un bon w.e ?
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, trÃ¨s bon week-end de trois jours, et toi?
<oSoMoN> yo Laney
<seb128> bon w.e ralngÃ© Ã©galement :)
<seb128> didrocks, bug #1847307 seems similar
<ubot5> bug 1847307 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install in english with italian keyboard - keyboard not set during install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847307
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<seb128> (I had selected french as language as well in my case though)
<oSoMoN> salut diddledan
<oSoMoN> argh
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, seems we didn't spot that. I'll think the future to test future typing and not only the finale installation
<seb128> bug 1847307
<ubot5> bug 1847307 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install in english with italian keyboard - keyboard not set during install" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847307
<seb128> grrr copy on linux
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1826567
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1826567 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Does not apply keyboard layout during installation" [Medium,New]
<didrocks> seb128: was it on isolinux selection + lang or only in "maybe-ubiquity" or in both cases?
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN Laney
<seb128> I tried only in 'install' mode on an uefi system (so no isolinux but the text-only scren which is grub like, no language selection)
<didrocks> ok, so maybe-ubiquity for language selection
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> yeah, maybe :p I never remember how the differents mode are called
<seb128> I don't end up on the screen which let you pick live/install
<didrocks> maybe is the screen with install|live (+ lang selection if not selected in isolinux)
<seb128> but directly on ubiquity in install mode (since I pick install on the menu, don't wait for timeout boot)
<didrocks> then install -> only-ubiquity and live -> ubiquity
<didrocks> that's what I remember now :)
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> hi didrocks seb128 oSoMoN marcustomlinson
<didrocks> so directly on only-ubiquity, let me try maybe-ubiquity
<didrocks> I have jibel's patch to tests anyway, so let's call that a test day :p
<didrocks> so maybe-ubiquity, french selected -> only-ubiquity works for keyboard layout
<Laney> was a nice weekend, family visiting :>
<seb128> didrocks, could also depends on the mode or be timing...
<Laney> using an azerty key sounds like a good step for the test case to have
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I also tried maybe-ubiquity, english selection -> only-ubiquity, selecting azerty -> works in the user creation panel
<seb128> thx for testing
<seb128> I've rls tagged bug #1847307 since there are some reports about the issue and I can trigger it every time on that XPS
<ubot5> bug 1847307 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install in english with italian keyboard - keyboard not set during install" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847307
<seb128> will try to get some debug logs&co
<didrocks> if it's timing related, this is /o\
<didrocks> at least, good that there is a machine which can reproduce it
<seb128> hum, the ubiquity log on that bug has
<seb128> log-output -t ubiquity setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout it -option  -option lv3:ralt_switch
<seb128> Your console font configuration will be updated the next time your system
<seb128> boots. If you want to update it now, run 'setupcon' from a virtual console.
<seb128> looks like the correct command is called, so yeah, needs debugging
<seb128> thx for testing/replying :)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<didrocks> I'll try in live mode (but still VM)
<didrocks> live works here (but still non uefi, VM)
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you? had a good w.e?
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<Wimpress> I'd like to pass on some sincere thanks from a community of users I spoke over the weekend. They are very impressed with 19.10 and all the hard work the desktoppers have put into it ð
<didrocks> nice! :)
<oSoMoN> :)
<Wimpress> I took part in a live stream with popey and ~25 users in the early hours of Sunday morning.
<Wimpress> Each sharing the feedback and experiences of using Ubuntu 19.10.
<seb128> nice to read
<Wimpress> We did also capture some common issues. Most are already known but one new one regarding LVFS persistently prompting to update Logitech Universal receiver firmware. I'll look into that.
<marcustomlinson> morning Wimpress \o
<Wimpress> Morning
<Gargoyle> Hi.
<seb128> hey Gargoyle
<xnox> bluesabre:  why would i, if only python2 things use it today and all of them are obsolete.... python-* will simply be dropped https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/libappindicator/drop-python-appindicator/+merge/335606
<bluesabre> xnox: indeed, became aware of all the behind-the-scenes activity after reading that bug reporting and pinging you :)
<Laney> Trevinho: thx for https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/merge_requests/909/ :>
<gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 909 in mutter "x11-display: Don't unset the X11 focused window after setting one" [Opened]
<Trevinho> :)
<Trevinho> Laney: ah, since I saw a comment on https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/13658
<gitbot> systemd issue 13658 in systemd "No way to not kill other processes in unit when main process crashes" [Rfe ð, Needs-Discussion ð¤, Pid1, Open]
<Trevinho> I was quickly talkin with florian about moving the shell app process run to systemd and he's all ok, but as we said we should do it in glib
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'll reply at some point
<Laney> would rather make gnome-session smaller than bigger ;-)
<Trevinho> by that you meant you'd prefer to have systemd fixed more than having the shell to load things under the session unit?
<diddledan> ello oSoMoN :-p
 * diddledan needs to get a bot in here to intercept tab completions for oSoMoN :-p
<Laney> Trevinho: for the KillMode, rather implement that in systemd than gnome-session
<Laney> for the transient stuff, no firm view
<Laney> GLib seems sensible, but it's going to be slightly interesting to think about how to implement that there
<oSoMoN> hey diddledan :) [tab completion worked as my fingers intended, woot!]
<diddledan> :-D
<GunnarHj> Hello seb128, there is a duplicate upload of glib2.0 to the eoan queue. Would be good if the older of them could be deleted, so it's not built by mistake. You have access to do that, don't you?
<seb128> hey GunnarHj, yes I do, let me reject it
<GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks!
<seb128> done & np
<GunnarHj> seb128: Another thing: Another thing: I don't think it's a good idea to assign translation bugs to language packs, which are not dealt with directly and nobody (except for Brian M.) sees such bugs. I changed it on bug #1851221 to the ubuntu-translations project, which is catch all for translations bugs, and assigned the Icelandic Translators team.
<ubot5> bug 1851221 in Ubuntu Translations "localized language (Icelandic) incomplete" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851221
<seb128> GunnarHj, the translator-packages team is subscribed to langpacks and those emails end up on https://lists.launchpad.net/translators-packages/ but maybe translators don't look there? anywhy, ubuntu-translations wfm I will do that next time
<GunnarHj> seb128: Good. (The Translators Packages "team" consists of Brian.)
<seb128> GunnarHj, the team yes, but the list is public, click on the url I just gave you
<seb128> I just glanced through the recent emails personally :)
<GunnarHj> seb128: Ah, now I see. You make me unsure, but I'd suspect that few translators teams watch that list. Assigning respective team directly has proved to work well, at least for the active translators teams.
<seb128> GunnarHj, right, in fact I was expecting that individual team would be subscribed to the langpacks for this locale but seems that might not be the case
<seb128> your way works, it does make easier to review the translations issue in any case :)
<seb128> so let's use that workflow, thx for pointing it out
<GunnarHj> seb128: Deal.
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> (brb, going back to my desk)
<tintou> Hi desktoppers, would it be possible to have an update to Epiphany in Bionic (there is 3.28.5 in updates but 3.28.6 is out) ?
<seb128> tintou, hey, we should probably SRU the update yes, do you have a specific bug/issue with the current version?
<tintou> seb128: upstream seem to have many reports about crashes that are supposed to be fixed there https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany/issues/982#note_638122
<gitbot> GNOME issue 982 in epiphany "Crashes on Launch (Segmentation Fault)" [1. Crash, 2. Needs Information, Closed]
<tintou> There is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-browser/+bug/1845396 though
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1845396 in epiphany-browser (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Update epiphany-broswer to 3.28.6 in Bionic" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> tintou, thx
<Laney> seb128: feel like syncing pango1.0?
<seb128> Laney, sure
<Laney> scary!
<seb128> is there anything reason it was not moved to unstable in Debian? or just lack of confidence on the update/way to properly test?
<Laney> second one
<Laney> we could do it and see what happens there, or sync and see what happens here and then do it
<seb128> let's sync and then
<seb128> unsure we will get much feedback from the new serie yet
<seb128> though we got a bunch of report about GNOME freezing so some people are using it
<Laney> keeping people on their toes :>
<Laney> there's a .7, will upload that too
<seb128> thx
<hellsworth> good morning everyone
<hellsworth> also diddledan thanks for the pointer to your gimp snap size reduction changes. i'll def look at making the same chagnes in glimpse
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi oSoMoN , hope you had a nice weekend :)
<oSoMoN> yeah, IÂ had a very good long week-end (Friday was a holiday here). How about you?
<hellsworth> oh that's right. hope the holiday was nice :)
<hellsworth> yep had a great weekend. my baby started to crawl so we have been quickly baby proofing everything and keeping up with her :)
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> my baby actually started walking on Saturday, everyone at home was super excited about it :)
<hellsworth> very exciting!!
<diddledan> non stop now till they leave home :-p
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: cool!
<marcustomlinson> diddledan: you may be interested: https://github.com/snapcrafters/gimp/pull/83#issuecomment-549407850
<gitbot> snapcrafters issue (Pull request) 83 in gimp "Reduce snap size" [Closed]
<marcustomlinson> I see it's already merged, but something to keep in mind maybe :)
<diddledan> interesting
<diddledan> it'ld be really nice if snapcraft could do this for us
<marcustomlinson> diddledan: I believe sergiusens has a plan for this
<diddledan> yeah, I think you're right
<marcustomlinson> last I showed him this, that was his response
<diddledan> I see you're also compiling the glib schemas
<marcustomlinson> not all of that yaml was written by me, I've still got some things to clean up
<Laney> some updateâ¢ fixed scrolling in irssi for me
<Laney> now I can read what happened overnight again
<sergiusens> diddledan, marcustomlinson: we already do not list missing files if they are part of content, but we will not automatically strip a user-requested stage-packages or any other artifact provided
<marcustomlinson> sergiusens: fair enough
<infinity> Laney: Still around?
<infinity> seb128: Or you?
<oSoMoN> good night all
<seb128> infinity, yes
<infinity> seb128: Oh hai.  Can you subscribe desktop-packages to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dvisvgm ?
<infinity> seb128: It was split out from texlive-bin, which you're already subscribed to, so a no-brainer, IMO.
<seb128> infinity, done
<infinity> seb128: Ta.
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-05
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel didrocks and oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey hey marcustomlinson
<oSoMoN> hey didrocks, jibel, marcustomlinson
<Laney> hey ho
<didrocks> hey Laney
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks hey oSoMoN
<Laney> how's it going?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks, and you?
<Laney> not baaad
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney and Wimpress
<seb128> goooood morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<seb128> lut did
<seb128> lut didrocks
<marcustomlinson> seb128: not bad, you? Feeling any better?
<seb128> a bit but not great...
<seb128> jamesh, weekly summary reminder!
<marcustomlinson> :/
<Laney> hi Wimpress marcustomlinson seb128
<seb128> jamesh, also rls bug update
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<seb128> Trevinho, rls bug, you did update the set for bionic this time but you also have an eoan section
<seb128> hey Wimpress, Laney!
<oSoMoN> good morning Wimpress, seb128
<jbicha> seb128_: could you remove gnome-shell-pomodoro from focal/s390x? (because gnome-shell isn't available on s390x)
<Laney> something going to stop it coming back?
<jbicha> it now Build-Depends on gnome-shell
<seb128_> jbicha, k
<seb128> jdstrand, you never replied back to Olivier on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1794064 ... would be one nice to get fix now that chromium is a snap only
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1794064 in evince (Ubuntu) "Clicking a hyperlink in a PDF fails to open it if the default browser is a snap" [High,New]
<oSoMoN> seb128, jdstrand:Â IÂ confirm the bug is still valid, fwiw
<oSoMoN> can someone please confirm it, IÂ don't want to confirm my own bugs
<seb128> oSoMoN, done
<fidencio> jibel: hey/ping. :-). So, I've started adding ubuntu-19.10 to osinfo-db and I'm facing some issues when trying to unattended install (via preseed file) the desktop media.
<jibel> hi fidencio, what kind of issues?
<fidencio> jibel: didrocks pointed out that nothing changed and it should just work. but, for some reason, it just doesn't. when using the same preseed (and kernel command line) used for the server media, the automated installation doesn't kick in and I can see the "Installation type" dialog hanging there
<fidencio> jibel: let me get the kernel command line and preseed file used
<fidencio> jibel: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/Zq6yIeWyoO3BynxSXPZAOQ
<fidencio> jibel: this is the screen: https://fidencio.fedorapeople.org/ubuntu_1904_issue.png
<jibel> fidencio, it looks like a pretty standard preseed.
<mgedmin> does the 19.10 installer support "Use the largest continuous free space" any more? I don't see that option in the screenshot
<jibel> fidencio, I cannot look immediately right now, but I'll test it this week.
<didrocks> mgedmin: yes, if your disk isn't empty and have free space :) (which isn't the case in this vm)
<fidencio> jibel: cool, thanks. I'll be around. So, if you find something out, please, just let me know
<hellsworth> morning everyone
<marcustomlinson> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> hia o/
<didrocks> hey hellsworth
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<seb128> hey
<seb128> ok, it's meeting time!
<kenvandine> it is!
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Nov  5 14:31:21 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), hellsworth, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<kenvandine> o/
<oSoMoN> \o
<marcustomlinson> \o
<jibel> hi
<hellsworth> o/
<seb128> seems like we have enough people to get started :)
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no unassigned (!fix commited) there
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no unassigned
<tseliot> o/
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> hey tseliot & tkamppeter :)
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1850535
<ubot5> bug 1850535 in mutter (Ubuntu Eoan) "Ubuntu 19.10 gnome-shell crashes after changing keyboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850535
<seb128> there is only one report and the submitter said it went away after uninstall fcitx
<Trevinho> yeah and the warning isn't related with the crash...
<seb128> I would vote -1 for rls tracking it at this point
<Laney> agreed
<Trevinho> as well
<oSoMoN> given fcitx isn't default, agreed
<hellsworth> sgtm
<seb128> done
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> we have some entries there
<seb128> bug #1816396
<ubot5> bug 1816396 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Eoan) "Starting snap from the after-install notification fails" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1816396
<kenvandine> robert uploaded the fix to focal
<seb128> I'm assigning that one to Robert, the just fixed it in focal
<seb128> kenvandine, right, looks like he forgot to assign himself for eoan, done now
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> bug #1845801
<ubot5> bug 1845801 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu Eoan) "[nvidia] Automatic login fails and then all subsequent logins fail. Killing gnome-session-binary fixes it, or just not using automatic login." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1845801
<seb128> unsure what to do about this one, tseliot feedback pointed out to maybe a systemd issue
<tseliot> yep
<Trevinho> Laney maybe can indagate? Not sure if tagging though yet
<tseliot> I wonder if xnox is aware of that ^^
<Laney> what in the world does indagnate mean
<hellsworth> indicate maybe?
<seb128> balint asked for testing with a systemd from a ppa, let's see if we can get that going
<seb128> I will set to incomplete meanwhile
<Trevinho> sorry, investigate ð
<hellsworth> :)
<rbalint> seb128, as i see we did not get feedback with new systemd
<seb128> rbalint, right
<seb128> ok, third one is bug #1850535
<ubot5> bug 1850535 in mutter (Ubuntu Focal) "Ubuntu 19.10 gnome-shell crashes after changing keyboard" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850535
<seb128> which we just discussed in the previous section
 * Trevinho translating made easy (#makeyourwordtuesday) 
<seb128> #topic rls-ff-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: rls-ff-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1740637	
<ubot5> bug 1740637 in libappindicator (Ubuntu Focal) "Remove python-appindicator and gir1.2-appindicator-0.1" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1740637
 * kenvandine sheds a tear
<seb128> we should probably remove those
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> though I don't see any justification of why it needs to be rls tracked
<seb128> I will assign to myself, I wanted to review/upload the change from Jeremy
<seb128> no point pissing off d_oko by arguing on the rls targetting :)
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> bug #1844853
<ubot5> bug 1844853 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu Eoan) "IBus no longer works in Qt applications after upgrade" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1844853
<seb128> that's fix commited
<seb128> bug #1847570
<ubot5> bug 1847570 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu Focal) "PulseAudio automatically switches to HDMI sound output on login" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847570
<seb128> ongoing
<seb128> and I just noticed I was reviewing the tracking list
<seb128> so no point reviewing those assigned ones :p
<seb128> which means I did skip
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> the indicator one we just discussed
<seb128> bug #1848217 is fix commited, I just forgot to untag previous week
<ubot5> bug 1848217 in yaru-theme (Ubuntu) "No system-ready sound" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848217
<seb128> and I think that's it for rls bugs!
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<seb128> Laney, yours!
<Laney> YEAH
<Laney> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> so there's a lot of stuff, I didn't look into all of them tbh
<Laney> we should probably divide and conquer amongst everybody
<Laney> somehow
<seb128> should we just try to poke a bit to the list this week collectively?
<seb128> maybe state on the channel when you look at something to avoid duplicating
<seb128> and see if we have an easier set to review next week then?
<Laney> sure, if it happens
<Laney> I'm going to take libproxy and glib2.0 to start
<Laney> if someone likes rust then librsvg would be a good one
 * oSoMoN ducks
<oSoMoN> (I'll take a look)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> ppc64el failing test
<seb128> looks like fun :)
<seb128> I can try poking to that one
<seb128> I will also look at the other failing to build ones
 * Trevinho expenses https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/
<seb128> k, probably not need to sort out that here/now
<seb128> Trevinho, :)
<seb128> thanks Laney
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-11-05 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> other topics?
<Wimpress> Trevinho: denied
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> quick manager response :p
<Wimpress> Lulz
<seb128> next week some of us are away at a product sprint
<Trevinho> nuuuuuuuuuu #tears and more indagations :-D
<hellsworth> and some of us are at LAS
<seb128> maybe we should skip the meeting?
<seb128> Wimpress, wdyt, skipping next one?
<kenvandine> +1
<hellsworth> +1
<seb128> sounds like consensus
<Wimpress> Yep. Skip next week.
<seb128> thx everyone
<marcustomlinson> the ayes have it, the ayes have it
<seb128> no other topic?
<Wimpress> Nope.
<Trevinho> nope
<seb128> let's wrap then!
<seb128> thanks team
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Spooky Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Nov  5 14:57:44 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-11-05-14.31.moin.txt
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<didrocks> thx!
<oSoMoN> thanks
<hellsworth> thank you :)
<jdstrand> oSoMoN, seb128: I added a trello card and assigned it to me
<seb128> jdstrand, hey, great, thanks!
<oSoMoN> thanks jdstrand
<Wimpress> Thanks for running things again seb128. I should have all my double booked meetings fixed by next time.
<seb128> Wimpress, np
<seb128> Laney, pango synced, let's see if things get interesting :)
<Laney> nice, thanks
<seb128> oSoMoN, you will like that, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=942022
<ubot5> Debian bug 942022 in src:librsvg "librsvg: FTBFS on ppc64el: panicked at 'assertion failed: bounds.x1 >= bounds.x0', rsvg_internals/src/surface_utils/iterators.rs:36:9" [Serious,Open]
<seb128> 'Looking at the differences and trying downgrading some build deps, I
<seb128> found that replacing rustc 1.37 with 1.36 makes 2.44.14 and 2.44.15 build
<seb128> again in that latest schroot.'
<Laney> yeah
<oSoMoN> urgh
<Laney> then Simon was like "good luck with that"
<Laney> :D
<seb128> :)
<seb128> or :( rather
<hellsworth> in case it is useful, we build a couple of these newer packages (listed in udate_excuses) in the gnome-3-34-1804-sdk snap: librsvg 2.44-15 and  glib2.0 v2.62.2
<hellsworth> that might help find any env var issues or new deps or something
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: seb128 ^^
<seb128> hellsworth, thank you for the hint
<seb128> librsvg is probably going to get down a ppc64el/rust issue though :/
<seb128> rustc 1.38 is out, we should perhaps wait for that update
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, thanks. it looks like the issue is with the newest rustc in focal, which isn't in bionic
<hellsworth> sure, jsut wanted to point it out in case it helps :) no harm if it doesnt
<seb128> right
<didrocks> please IDE, you should understand than when I typed "ctx.Done()", I actually meant "z.Done()" and avoiding having me losing 45 minutes adding prints statement everywhere because I thought my logic was wrong
<didrocks> thanks, with love :)
<hellsworth> if i feel like it  --IDE
<didrocks> not using vscode yet, I see :)
 * didrocks dumped vim to it some years ago and doesn't regret
<seb128> Laney, jibel, do you know offhand why daily ISO validation on focal is failing? real issue? still the reboot thing?
<jibel> seb128, the session doesn't start
<Laney> I didn't look, sorry
<jibel> I didn't try with today's iso
<Laney> not getting emails about it actually
<seb128> let me download it and give it a try
<Laney> I am for bionic though
<seb128> I got the bionic ones as well :/
<seb128> but yeah, no focal email
<jibel> I didn't create automated jobs for focal, that's why there is no notification
<jibel> but before adding them I wanted to make sure the image at least is installable
<Laney> nod
<Laney> ok, that explains why I didn't think to check ;-)
<jibel> seb128, I can have a look at the iso tomorrow if you want
<seb128> jibel, I'm downloading it now, let's see if I find something obvious
<jibel> i've today's image here already
<jibel> booting it
<jibel> seb128, same problem than last week
<seb128> k
<jibel> the session hangs immediately after it starts
<jibel> Laney said it was a mutter bug
<Laney> once you click on a desktop icon
<Laney> you can interact with it until then
<jibel> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/896
<gitbot> GNOME issue 896 in mutter "Hang when interacting with desktop icons on x11 after 71c3f4af" [1. Bug, 1. Regression, 5. Backend: X11, Opened]
<jibel> no need to click
<Laney> that doesn't sound like what the CI would be doing
<Laney> or?
<Laney> well, yes there is for me
<Laney> can give you a screencast if you want me to prove it
<seb128> looks like we should wait for that fix to land before wasting time debugging things then
<jibel> yeah I can do a screencast :)
<jibel> to prove that you don't have to click
<seb128> you can be both right, I don't think screencasts are needed
<jibel> but I agree it's a waste of time
<seb128> let's wait for the known issue to be fixed
<jibel> I'd rather wait for the fix and try again
<seb128> and see where we stand then
<seb128> thx jibel Laney
<Laney> if it were me I'd get a backtrace of the no click thing
<seb128> Laney, the hang which is known has to do with clicking and you think it might be a different bug then?
<seb128> let me see what it does here
<Laney> might be
<Laney> backtrace would probably give a clue
<seb128> it's still downloading
<Laney> because it's to do with focus changes which happen when clicking on the desktop icons
<tkamppeter> It is possile that I am sufferng bug 1807056, so I would like to test Wayland on 19.10, how do I switch?
<ubot5> bug 1807056 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Occasional Keyboard freeze" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1807056
<tkamppeter> In the login I can only choose "Ubuntu", not "Ubuntu on X" or "Ubuntu on Wayland".
<mgedmin> perhaps your system doesn't support wayland?  (e.g. nvidia drivers could be a problem)
<Laney> indeed
<tkamppeter> My system has no Nvidia, it is a pure Intel Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga 2nd gen.
<Laney> well if you're not seeing Wayland as an option then that means that GDM decided your system can't run a Wayland session
<Laney> there might be a clue in the journal from when GDM first started
<Laney> what did I do wrong that I've started to get sounds for calendar notifications now :(
<seb128> is that from the browser or from eds?
<Laney> could be eds or shell
<tkamppeter> I have rebooted now and I can choose Wayland again but entered the standard X session first to find out whether simply the reboot solves the problem.
<tkamppeter> No I hae tried both X and Wayland, and even the text console, the intermittant yboard failures (sometimes one or 2 characters do not appear, sometimes one press of a key le it come out 10-20 times) stll occur.
<tkamppeter> Sorry, Now I have tried ...
<tkamppeter> Anyon had such a problem?
 * mgedmin sometimes (very very rarely) seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees repeated keystrokes when the system is under heavy load
<Laney> dgadomski: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1754671/comments/150 /o\
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1754671 in NetworkManager "Full-tunnel VPN DNS leakage regression" [Medium,Confirmed]
<tkamppeter> mgedmin, for me at least the missing characters also happen without load, the rpeated ones also sometimes without load.
<tkamppeter> I have now contatced Lenovo, as my laptop has a 3-year warranty extension.
<bittin> Meeting in 15 minutes? or you already had it?
<oSoMoN> bittin, the desktop team meeting is at 13:30 UTC, it was 4 hours ago
<bittin> oSoMoN: ah seems my Google Calender shows it wrong for some reason: https://i.imgur.com/tcRY5Jy.png
<bittin> is there a log for a curious Ubuntu user?
<bittin> nevermind found it: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-11-05-14.31.log.html
<bittin> oSoMoN: not sure why the calendar invite shows up for the wrong time for me always in Google Calender imported from Fridge, but looks good
<bittin> just a curious user as i said, and had some spare time tonight, will help test Focal ISOs and Alpha/Betas when they are out in January 2020 however
<oSoMoN> bittin, that's great, thanks for the help!
<bittin> np
<robert_ancell> hellsworth, it's official. Saw you on the new hires email :)
<hellsworth> i know! fancy that :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-06
<jibel> hi all
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<sarnold> good morning oSoMoN :) looks like mozilla's got an interesting way of greeting you in the morning https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/11/scammers-are-exploiting-an-unpatched-firefox-bug-to-send-users-into-a-panic/
<oSoMoN> good morning sarnold, thanks for the pointer. looks like there might be a 70.0.2 release with a fix, when there's one
<sarnold> oSoMoN: cool, thanks :)
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks and all
<didrocks> salut jibel
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks , jibel
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, comment Ã§a va aujourd'hui ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<seb128> Ã§a va bien
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel oSoMoN didrocks seb128
<didrocks> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: no too bad, you?
<marcustomlinson> over your bug yet?
<marcustomlinson> the stomach one, not the ones in ubuntu :P
<seb128> haha
<seb128> I'm feeling better, eating almost normally again so hopefully it's fully over by tomorrow, thanks for asking!
<marcustomlinson> good to hear, try to take it easy
<seb128> trying, but there is always too much to do :-)
<marcustomlinson> that's the point I guess. There's always too much to do whether you take a day off or not ;)
<Laney> morning!
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey marcustomlinson didrocks
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you today?
<Laney> moin seb128
<Laney> doing alrigggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
<Laney> saw some fireworks last night ððððððððð
<Laney> what about you?
<seb128> I'm ok, stomach is better and I had a proper sleep night
<seb128> oh, fireworks, what was the occassion?
<Wimpress> Good morning o/
<marcustomlinson> hey Wimpress
<Laney> the thwarting of a most treasonous plot to destroy the house of lords!
<Laney> hey Wimpress
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<seb128> hey Wimpress
<seb128> oh, right, the day for that poor Guy
<marcustomlinson> I even saw the explosions from here
<oSoMoN> what, they finally managed to blow up the house of Lords, after more than 400 years trying?
<Laney> what do we want? house of lords reform! when do we want it? at a convenient time, once we have thoroughly debated all the options and thoughtfully decided the best replacement!
<marcustomlinson> :D
<kenvandine> Way2cool!
<kenvandine> whoops... that was not MY password :)
<marcustomlinson> XD
<kenvandine> my nephew's :)
<Laney> ð
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, can you confirm my analysis in bug #1851490 ?
<ubot5> bug 1851490 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Locked to Launcher Shortcut disappears after every auto upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1851490
 * Trevinho checks
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: yeah, that is what happens. Used to be a timeout that maybe isn't enough for snaps though?
<hellsworth> good morning everyone
<Trevinho> hi hellsworth
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, yeah, IÂ guess the timeout isn't long enough for snaps
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, afaict in gnome-shell when the desktop file disappears, the entry isn't removed from the favourites, but the launcher simply doesn't display it, so when the desktop file appears again, the icon re-appears
<oSoMoN> I'd argue this is better
<oSoMoN> (than a timeout)
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi folks. hope you all are having a nice day :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, that's way too cool to be a password anyway, right?
<kenvandine> lol
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: well, longer timeout can be still a thing
<Trevinho> is an easy fix
<kenvandine> his harddrive sounds terrible... he brought his PC over hoping I can copy some files off of it for him
<kenvandine> clanking sounds... not good
<marcustomlinson> been there done that haha
<kenvandine> gonna try with a live ubuntu session :)
<marcustomlinson> now and then when the copying freezes, just whack it
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, sure, that would be a decent band-aid, but it would still be racy on slow systems (like my 16.04 VM)
<kenvandine> just keeps getting a BSOD
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, how much do you think the timeout can be increased? will the launcher hide an icon if the desktop file doesn't exist?
 * mgedmin tried to focus firefox and instead got an unexpected JS ERROR: TypeError: malformed UTF-8 character sequence at offset 0 and gnome-shell segfaulted
<Laney> sounds like a bug to be reported if it's not already (ideally upstream too, unless it comes from an extension)
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: probably even a minute is fine
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: but should probably hidden before
<mgedmin> I tried, but ubuntu-bug thinks it's unreportable because some apt packages (rygel) are outdated
<mgedmin> there's an .upload file in /var/crash so maybe the crash dump got uploaded somewhere
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, I think a minute would do the trick, yes
<oSoMoN> Trevinho, shall IÂ assign to you? or do you want me to submit a merge request for it?
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: if you can, would be nice
<oSoMoN> ack, I'll put it in my to-do list (low priority though)
<didrocks> mvo: hey, when you have time, a very easy MP to end a day/a week: https://github.com/snapcore/go-gettext/pull/3 :)
<gitbot> snapcore issue (Pull request) 3 in go-gettext "Add go.mod file" [Open]
<seb128> didrocks, did you ever notice that the default layout in a French install is 'fr (alternate obsolete)'
<seb128> I just noticed when installing that new laptop
<didrocks> seb128: it has always been the alternate layout, no?
<seb128> I though it was supposed to be 'fr (alternate)'
<didrocks> wasn't marked obselete in my memory though
<seb128> right
<didrocks> there are 2?
<seb128> well obsolete/current default is fr+latin9
<didrocks> or it's just the same being marked as obselete?
<seb128> the alternate and correct one is fr+oss
<didrocks> argh
<seb128> seems like we regressed that in artful
<didrocks> wondering what changed
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> if the code issue is what I though
<didrocks> but yeah, I'm 100% sure we were using fr+oss before
<seb128> c_yphermox dropped a part of the console-setup ubuntu delta to change that in artful
<seb128> I just wonder why we didn't notice before if that's the pb
<seb128> I need to do a bionic install...
<didrocks> let me check, I thought I installed that box on bionic
<didrocks> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS "Bionic Beaver" - Release amd64 (20180426)
<didrocks> ok, so I reinstalled that one on bionic
<didrocks> I don't remember if I selected alternate myself though
<seb128> gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.input-sources sources ?
<didrocks> [('xkb', 'fr+oss')]
<seb128> k, weird
<seb128> thx for checking
<didrocks> yw, so maybe a regression that happened later?
<didrocks> it could be that I reselected it automatically
<didrocks> but I don't remember this
<seb128> I think I would have noticed if it was labelled (obsolete) in the bionic installer
<didrocks> same
<seb128> so maybe we had another override
<didrocks> but it seems I didn't notice in VM previous cyclesâ¦
<seb128> right, I don't know when it started
<didrocks> when using it for a while (so not a VM), I would definitively notice
<didrocks> because of "â¦"
<seb128> latin9 (the current default) is not far from oss
<seb128> so maybe "â¦" is working for it as well
<seb128> anyway, I will dig a bit
<seb128> & add back that delta that got dropped by error
<seb128> didrocks, thx for the replies :)
<didrocks> yw ;)
<didrocks> keep me posted
<seb128> I will do!
<mvo> didrocks: thank you!
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-07
<jibel> hi all
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel, Ã§a va ?
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, jibel
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va bien et toi?
<jibel> salut infinity
<jibel> oSoMoN, ^
<jibel> too quick at tab completion
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va :)
<oSoMoN> jibel, that wouldn't have happened with a bÃ©po layout :)
<jibel> I'd have pinged someone starting with a P
<jibel> or you mean you cannot type quickly with bepo? ;)
<jibel> didrocks, i merged the advanced dialog and the installer fixes are ready for review
<jibel> i'm rebasing the mp
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, I already started reviewing it
<jibel> didrocks, I am not fully happy with it and there are rough edge so don't hesitate if you see improvements
<jibel> i'll push an update in a min to not break on kde
<jibel> didrocks, than I'd like to test the proposal from upstream for swap on zvol and revert the last minute change made in 19.10
<jibel> then*
<jibel> damn keys moving on my keyboard
<didrocks> jibel: yeah, discussions is still ongoing upstream as I see :)
<jibel> didrocks, yeah but for the moment I think the best way forward is to create the swap as described by ryao
<jibel> then i'll do some tests
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<marcustomlinson> morning jibel oSoMoN didrocks Wimpress
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<Wimpress> O/
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<marcustomlinson> morning seb128
<seb128> hey marcustomlinson, how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good thanks :) you?
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good, stomach recovered!
<marcustomlinson> yay
<didrocks> hey seb128
<didrocks> good for your stomach :)
<Laney> hi de hi
<didrocks> hey en hey Laney
<marcustomlinson> Yo Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks marcustomlinson
<ricotz> hey desktopers :)
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, hi, do you expect libreoffice 6.3.3 to be accepted in eoan this week?
<didrocks> hey ricotz
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: not this week no. Once it's been approved, I'll verify, then 7 days from then
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: could you put libreoffice for eoan on your radar for today pretty please?
<sil2100> marcustomlinson: suar
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: :) thank you
<Laney> 29% battery
<Laney> 100% at 09:00
<Laney> ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢ð¢
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, ok, I mean the queue approval so eoan-proposed, this would be this week?
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: right
<ricotz> otherwise I am going to push a ppa build
<Laney> that's in control of the SRU team, not the uploader, but as you can see he just requested that from them
<marcustomlinson> that ^
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, good
<ricotz> Laney, afaict from my own experience, it is pretty much in control of the uploader to ping appropriate sru team members
<Laney> I almost never do
<oSoMoN> SRU team members do go through the queue even when not pinged, but they also have lots of other responsibilities so sometimes patience is the answer
<jibel> when is planned next release of mutter in focal to unbreak the live image?
<Laney> jibel: now, was probably working on it when you asked
<Laney> the fix got merged last night
<sil2100> marcustomlinson: just double confirming - the gcc-9 in eoan is good with the new LO, right?
<sil2100> Poking since I saw all the build-conflicts for those various, newer gcc-9 versions
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: yes the gcc-9 in eoan is no problem
<marcustomlinson> there's just a range between 9.2.1-12/15 that was broke afaiu
<sil2100> Ok, thanks ;)
<marcustomlinson> and we're likely to jump to 9.2.1-17 for eoan as is in focal
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: I did build this in a ppa and test on Eoan if that eases your mind a little :)
<sil2100> Now I just need to somehow accept libreoffice, it's always a pain, both the API calls and LP times out when doing it
<sil2100> Requires multiple tries
<marcustomlinson> sil2100: just lately? or has been for some time?
<marcustomlinson> yay thanks sil2100!
<marcustomlinson> ricotz: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:6.3.3-0ubuntu0.19.10.1
<jibel> Laney, thx
<ricotz> marcustomlinson, \o/
<sil2100> marcustomlinson: since always for me at least
<hellsworth> good morning everyone
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> how are things marcustomlinson ?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: not too bad :) you?
<hellsworth> things are good. it's cold and foggy here which makes me extra love my coffee
<hellsworth> while i polishing my talk for las. im a bit nervous about it
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: what's the talk on?
<hellsworth> GNOME Deskop Snap Applications: Introducing GNOME extensions
<hellsworth> i basically want to say hey look at this cool thing you should all use :)
<marcustomlinson> nice :)
<hellsworth> i gave a practice talk to my husband last night and got some good feedback
<hellsworth> apparently i need more on what are snaps
<hellsworth> are there some slides already out there somewhere that i could borrow from?
<marcustomlinson> Wimpress: ^
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: though, it sounds like igor will cover this in his talk
<marcustomlinson> https://conf.linuxappsummit.org/en/LAS2019/public/events/12
<hellsworth> right and i thought about that (his talk is going before mine) but i figured if folks came to mine that didn't come to his i should have a little blurb
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: steal a slide or two from him
<marcustomlinson> do a recap
<hellsworth> yeah a recap. good idea.
<ogra> or steal him to say a few sentences to summarize his talk at the beginning of yours ;)
<hellsworth> that would be weird
<kenvandine> mvo: any thoughts on https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/slack-opening-file-browser-firefox-and-chrome-in-the-snaps-context/8969
 * Laney stares at nusakan
<Laney> new iso isn't syncing out
<mvo> kenvandine: in a meeting, sry
<kenvandine> mvo: when you have a chance.  It affects classic snaps.
<mvo> kenvandine: (still in a meeting) - is there something we need to fix or do we have a design problem? (again, sorry that I didn't managed to look at this yet)
<kenvandine> mvo: i think the real problem is essentially env leaking to apps started via an action in the classic snap
<kenvandine> like in the slack case, clicking a link in slack when the default browser isn't running.  The default browser process is started in the context of the classic snap
<mvo> kenvandine: thank you, I will ask someone in my team to investigate
<kenvandine> thx
<kenvandine> i'm not sure what the right thing to do there is... but perhaps xdg-open ?
<Laney> its there now
<Laney> jibel: you can try pending if you want
<Laney> seems good to me
<Laney> :>
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-08
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN and didrocks
<didrocks> happy Friday marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> and to you didrocks :)
<clobrano> good morning all 0/
<marcustomlinson> hey clobrano
<clobrano> hey marcustomlinson, how are you?
<marcustomlinson> clobrano: good thanks! yourself?
<clobrano> marcustomlinson, I'm good too. Trying for the nth time to use riot and matrix to chat here, but it seems unable to send messages, only receive :|
<didrocks> hey hey clobrano
<clobrano>  hey didrocks!
<seb128> gooood morning systems
<didrocks> morning seb128
<seb128> hey clobrano marcustomlinson didrocks, happy friday! how are you today?
<clobrano> morning seb128, I'm fine, yourself?
<seb128> I'm good!
<seb128> clobrano, you need to be registered/identified on nickserv to be able to post here
<seb128> there is probably a way to do that on matrix?
<marcustomlinson> hey seb128, happy friday! so I'm... happy :)
<seb128> :-)
<clobrano> seb128, that's probably the cause, but I should already been registered
<seb128> you need to send your password when connecting to the server, does matrix do that?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm fine, thanks
<seb128> try to /msg nickserv identify <passwd>
<seb128> then to post
<seb128> in case the client isn't doing it for you
 * clobrano trying
 * seb128 is too old for those new tools, still using a old school IRC client :)
<clobrano> I even set a bouncer for irc, but I want to try anyway :D
<clobrano> nah, "command error"
<clobrano> matrix has a command to identify, so I expect it to pass it here, meh
<clobrano> not really my biggest issue right now XD
 * didrocks still happily using weechat
<didrocks> (and spotted than they are using weechat in Mr Robot as well ;))
<clobrano> LOL
<ogra> pfft... newfangled stuff ... real men use "telnet irc.freenode.net 6667"
<RAOF> <clobrano1 "hey marcustomlinson  :)"> You probably want to !storepass in the IRC bridge boy control channel.
<RikMills> clobrano: you can identify and have the freenode bridge save that with the kde matrix server. I guess it would be the same with the main matrix instance
<clobrano> RAOF, RikMills: I did that
<clobrano> both storepass and identified in freenode bridge
<RikMills> :)
<RAOF> ð¤· should work then!
<RAOF> Oh! You clearly own, and have logged in to, clobrano with an IRC client. You'll need to ghost that before you can log in with another account? (Such as the matrix IRC bridge?)
<Laney> yo
<didrocks> yoyo Laney
<RAOF> Hey Laney! Yo, didrocks.
<seb128> hey Laney, good evening RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Pretty good.
<RAOF> Goats' cheese and porchetta!
<didrocks> hey RAOF
<Laney> hey didrocks RAOF seb128!
 * Laney eats RAOF's dinner
<marcustomlinson> hey Laney
<Laney> hey ho marcustomlinson
 * Laney is wading through glib2.0's excuses
<Laney> mentioning by way of a reminder to people to pick up something from https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages :-)
<oSoMoN> Laney, I haven't made progress on librsvg yet, but still on it
 * Laney high fives oSoMoN 
<kenvandine> jdstrand: i sponsored those pulseaudio SRUs
<popey> When you add a new google gnome online accounts entry, and add canonical, you get sent to u1 login. If you're dark yaru themed, the input fields are grey on grey. Where would I filed a bug on that?
<marcustomlinson> popey: against yaru I'd imagine. clobrano?
<popey> Well, i thought maybe, but it's only on that page, the google login page doesn't have the problem.
<popey> Wondered if it's a markup / tag problem on the sso login page
<clobrano> popey, marcustomlinson: on yaru first, then we hopefully send it to gnome-online accounts for using custom stylesheet :D
<clobrano> let's say that usually entries are fine in yaru-dark
<oSoMoN> thunderbird 68.2.1 is now in bionic-proposed, everyone who uses it please test and share your feedback on bug #1850064, or file new bugs. Thanks!
<ubot5> bug 1850064 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Please upgrade it to 68.x on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1850064
<oSoMoN> (and thanks sil_2100 for helping with the publication to -proposed)
<oSoMoN> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed on how to enable bionic-proposed on your system
<popey> clobrano: ok
<hellsworth> good (late) morning everyone
<hellsworth> i hope you all that are traveling next week travel safe :)
<marcustomlinson> good aftorning hellsworth
<hellsworth> :)
<oSoMoN> hey hellsworth (I'm past theoretical EODÂ so saying "good morning" feels too weird)
<didrocks> (same situation than oSoMoN, so just "hey") :)
<hellsworth> yeah i understand :)
<hellsworth> its late because i went for a flu shot
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, IÂ wish you safe travels, looking forward to seeing you at LAS
<hellsworth> i thought doing it in the morning would be best and then there was a bunch of traffic
<hellsworth> i'm so glad i don't have a daily commute and deal with rush hour!
<didrocks> oh, you did it, I've never did it apart from a previous job in 2008 IIRC ;)
<hellsworth> eh its a free roll of the dice :)
<hellsworth> it either works or it doesn
<hellsworth> t
<popey> \o/ LAS
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<hellsworth> LAS!
<didrocks> when is LAS, next week?
<hellsworth> yep
<hellsworth> tuesday - friday
<didrocks> waow, IRC will be really empty next week :p
<oSoMoN> didrocks, fancy joining us in Barcelona?
<hellsworth> yeah didrocks come join the fun!
<didrocks> oSoMoN: a little bit late to take that decision I guess ;)
<didrocks> but I would have love to seeing you both!
<hellsworth> we'll see you in march then :)
<didrocks> I guess so ;) February for those going to FOSDEM
<hellsworth> oSoMoN: popey are you all bringing something to share? i was thinking of bringing beer, or tea, or some other shareable libation
<oSoMoN> IÂ can share insights of where to eat/drink in Barcelona :) can also bring liquid goods, of course
<hellsworth> ah yes the local knowledge is valuable!
<hellsworth> hmm maybe i'll make cookies or something else
<hellsworth> who doesn't like chocolate chip cookies :)
 * didrocks tried chocolate french fries in Japan
<didrocks> â¦ not everything is good with chocolate :p
<hellsworth> i would try that too
<hellsworth> lol
<mdeslaur> ewwww
<didrocks> well, you have my opinion ;)
<didrocks> (it sounded fancy in Shibuya)
<oSoMoN> reminds me of a nutella pizza in Thessaloniki (no, IÂ didn't dare try it)
<oSoMoN> on a more serious note, +1 for chocolate cookies
<didrocks> nutella pizzaâ¦ sounds like desert flamenkÃ¼che
<marcustomlinson> did I hear deep fried mars bars?
<hellsworth> i would eat that
<hellsworth> hell, deep fried anything..
<marcustomlinson> :)
<marcustomlinson> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-46500570
<oSoMoN> by the type of conversation we're having you can totally tell it's Friday evening (I'll pretend IÂ don't know you're in a different timezone hellsworth)
<didrocks> heh, so true :)
<hellsworth> battered brussels sprouts fritters = yes please
 * didrocks EO{D;W}. See you on Tuesday! (well, for those who are on IRC at least)
<hellsworth> have a good weekend o/
<didrocks> thx, you too!
<oSoMoN> time to call it a week
<oSoMoN> have a great week-end everyone!
<Aktive> hello
<hellsworth> hi Aktive
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-09
<vicky> jbicha: I'm seeing an issue in which the greeter doesn't show  in 19.04 and 19.10 when i install gnome(gdm display manager) on one particular hw
<vicky> Has anyone seen similar issue
<jbicha> I don't know, I just use the regular Ubuntu installer if I want GNOME ð
<jbicha> you can file a bug against gdm with details of how exactly you are installing gdm
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-11-10
<Fudge> hi all, evening
