#ubuntu-website 2008-09-08
<hubuntu> http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
<hubuntu> men merk at: Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable.
<hubuntu> sorry.. wrong vchannel
<bladiebla> newz2000, are you there?
<newz2000> bl
<newz2000> oops
<newz2000> hi
<thorwil> nice, just in time, as i wanted to ask, too :)
<thorwil> newz2000: seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_04_spiral.png ?
<newz2000> looking good thorwil
<newz2000> that is the nicest ibex picture I've seen I think
<newz2000> but of course we drop all reference to ibex at the end of this month
<newz2000> I have to show that to Ken
<thorwil> newz2000: thank you! it's actually just a rough trace, to show the idea
<thorwil> newz2000: everything else in these variations is meant to be production ready, though
<thorwil> newz2000: given the preference for the dots, i don't intend to finish the hands. too much work to do both and i'd rather keep that as an option for next time
<newz2000> the dots are good
<qense> hello
<newz2000> hi qense
<thorwil> hello qense
<newz2000> I just got an email from some students in .nl who want to do some usability testing on ubuntu.com for a class.
<newz2000> Sounds like a fun class
<qense> yeah
<qense> What uni?
<qense> Delft?
<qense> I know Delft has got dual boots everywhere.
<qense> They told me it was much easier to use Linux for basic tasks, since gcc works much better and faster than Windows' equivalents.
<newz2000> the email domain is xept.nl and they merely said, "Information Technology student from the Netherlands"
<newz2000> I encouraged them to sign on here or the email list, maybe we'll hear from them
<qense> I don't know a xept :)
<qense> who knows
<qense> firefox is really slow today :S
<newz2000> qense: Erik_J is the student I mentioned
<Erik_J> ahh qense is dutch isn't it?
<qense> yes I am :)
<Erik_J> nice :)
<Erik_J> I want to test downloading iso's file, ordering cd,
<Erik_J> "taking the tour" and some others things
<qense> You already found shipit?
<Erik_J> yes, today I found the launchpad blue prints
<Erik_J> I guess that is what you mean
<qense> no
<qense> shipit is the free cd shipping service
<newz2000> https://shipit.ubuntu.com
<qense> I do have some 32bit CDs left though, I also could send you some myself.
<Erik_J> newz2000, understand that you can't implement all the changes, but evaluating is enough :)
<newz2000> I'd love to see the results of your testing
<newz2000> Erik_J: how do you plan to choose testers?
<Erik_J> ehmm we are going to test it with a laptop I can borrow from my work. Two other student and me are going to test average users. I read in the book "Don't make me think" that you should't spend to much time on searching for Target group users.
<newz2000> Erik_J: are people in your area generally comfortable with English?
<Erik_J> but we are going to test a lot of student from different eduacations ( technical and non-tech)
<Erik_J> ehmm yes other people are better in English.
<newz2000> ok, that was my concern
<newz2000> if the people use test aren't comfortable with English it may provide less useful results
<qense> People in the Netherlands get familiar with English very soon in their lives. :) It's everywhere here.
<qense> Slogans, titles, company names, expressions, slang
<Erik_J> and al lot of people understand English beter than they speak
<qense> true
<newz2000> gotcha, I can relate to that
<Erik_J> I read English every day but I never speak it.
<thorwil> heh, same here
<Erik_J> I hope it become better when I chat a lot :) When my English is very bad, please say
<newz2000> if we have trouble understanding you we'll let you know
<newz2000> so far all good though
<Erik_J> wednesday we are going to define alle the specific parts we want to test.
<qense> Where are you going to publish the results?
<Erik_J> ehm our plan was to make a report about it but we can also publish it on a wiki page
<qense> I think a lot of people here would be very interested in the results.
<newz2000> how about sharing it with the email list? I think that would be an appropriate location
<Erik_J> no problem
<newz2000> or on the wiki
<Erik_J> wich other parts do you like to be tested?
<Erik_J> we have ten weeks :)
<newz2000> keep it short, I'd pick no more than two if I were you... assuming you have a life outside of your schoolwork. :-)
<Erik_J> 1 or 2 days a week
<newz2000> because you have to test, then propose a solution, retest, etc
<qense> Are you going to focus on 'digibeten'(don't know the English word for this!) or experienced people?
<Erik_J> both
<Erik_J> digibeter = computer novice
<Erik_J> i think
<thorwil> qense: digibeten derived from analphabeten? that would be computer illiterate, then, to be pretty precise
<Erik_J> yes from analphabeten
<qense> that's the word I was looking for!
<thorwil> if you say computer novice, most will expect they have at least a clue how to use a mouse ;)
<Erik_J> mja I mean people who don't know what open-source, linux enz. is
<newz2000> Erik_J: so if your tests include shipit you will be including another interesting challenge in your test process, signing onto launchpad, which may include creating a launchpad user account.
<thorwil> well, that's pretty specific knowledge
<Erik_J> that's also a thing I'd like to improve. I have tested ubuntu.com on 6 friends who have no idea what ubuntu is and it was very hard for them to figure out what all the words mean. I think we can make that better by adding acronym tags
<Erik_J> A few months ago I already did a test just for fun.
<newz2000> those results will be interesting to see
<Erik_J> I was to lazy to translate the results in english
<newz2000> that's ok
<newz2000> I mean future results
<newz2000> I believe you about the acronyms being confusing
<qense> Did you also look at www.ubuntu-nl.org ?
<qense> got to go, dinner time!
<newz2000> see you later qense
<Erik_J> have a nice dinner
<Erik_J> The first sentence on the ubuntu site for example: Ubuntu is a community developed, Linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers.
<Erik_J> a lot of people don't know what linux, laptops, desktop and servers are
<Erik_J> they won't continue reading because they don't understand it
<Erik_J> adding the <acronym> tags can solve that a little bit
<newz2000> mpt: You might be interested in this conversation
<newz2000> (mpt is the usability lead for ubuntu and formerly for launchpad's UI)
<Erik_J> cool
<newz2000> do you have a way to test this? (effectiveness of acronym tag)
<Erik_J> I'm not a expirienced interaction designer. I have only read the books "Don't make me think" and "User centered website development" and I'm working at a dutch usability company as php/html/css dev (beside my study)
<Erik_J> I will ask at my work about the effectuveness of acronym tags
<newz2000> There has recently been discussion on this on the web
<Erik_J> they pop up slow and I think that a lot of users don't know thet exists :P
<newz2000> right
<newz2000> better is to not use unrecognized jargon on pages like this
<Erik_J> you mean don't user words like linux etc?
<Erik_J> user = use
<newz2000> yes
<Erik_J> I agree
<Erik_J> I found the document with the ubuntu.com test results
<Erik_J> they are from jan. 09
<Erik_J> ehh 08
<Erik_J> wrong, it's 4-08. I have translated it to english. I will check the English and I can send it to you
<newz2000> sure, send it to the list, introduce yourself and your plans
<newz2000> you don't have to write a lot, just a brief intro is fine
<newz2000> I'll bet you get a lot of encouragement
<thorwil> i don't think acronym tags are the solution, whatever they are exactly. rather a complete rephrasing. this is of course not simple, if can't even assume people know what an operating system is
<Erik_J> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_acronym.asp
<newz2000> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml
<thorwil> ah, that. slow. user must move the pointer there. i bet inexperienced users will not do so
<newz2000> I don't know if that's relevant or not, but skimmed the headline a few weeks ago
<newz2000> thorwil: I showed ken your banners and he really likes the dots
<thorwil> newz2000: cool :)
<thorwil> newz2000: 30 to 15 for all 3 flavors are pretty much done. rest only need numbers scaled to fit. but i have to figure out a sane way to export all this
<newz2000> are you doing it in inkscape?
<thorwil> yes
<newz2000> yes, this is a challenge
<newz2000> I'd say wait just a little longer before you do all the work, someone inside Canonical named "Kat" had some comments
<qense> back
<newz2000> unfortunately she's not online now so I can't figure out when she'll speak up
<thorwil> newz2000: speak out about what exactly?
<Erik_J> I'm gone, I'll be back later this evening
<newz2000> ok, nice meeting you Erik_J
<newz2000> thorwil: I'm not sure, colors maybe
<thorwil> newz2000: luckily i'm using tiled clones :)
<newz2000> oh, cool
<Erik_J> newz2000, nice to meet you too
<thorwil> allthough i consider to try a background that brightens up with dropping numbers
<newz2000> she said something about trying to get away from red, but I asked her what color in the palette to use instead and she never replied (and there just aren't any other dark colors available to us)
<thorwil> newz2000: how exactly should the countdown images be named?
<newz2000> thorwil: anything will work, as logn as it's consistent and uses a two-digit day as part of the file name.
<newz2000> for example, for 804: 804countdown_07days.jpg
<thorwil> newz2000: you can use plain rects in inkscape as "targets" for export. rectangles added in a row have rising id numbers. always plus 2
<thorwil> so i write a script to replace these numeric ids with filenames inside the svg :)
<newz2000> slick
<newz2000> that's the beauty of svg
<emunkki> thorwil, would that script be usable by the kubuntu folks as well? ;)
<newz2000> I can't wait until browser support is consistent and at least on par with what ff3 can do
<thorwil> emunkki: perhaps. it's really a bloody hack, though
<thorwil> and not done since i don't even know how to zero-pad, yet
<thorwil> which has to wait for tomorrow
<emunkki> ok
<emunkki> we're also working with the countdown banners
<thorwil> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners ?
<thorwil> oh, a copy
<thorwil> gotta run, good night :)
<Erik_AFK> Time for some sleep. Good night/day/morning/whatever
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-09
<IntuitiveNipple> Is there an ubuntuforums.com web-server administrator about?
<jpds> IntuitiveNipple: Forum admin or server admin?
<IntuitiveNipple> server admin
<jpds> IntuitiveNipple: Try #canonical-sysadmin.
<IntuitiveNipple> thanks :)
<qense> hello
<thorwil> newz2000: when should the countdown images go online?
<newz2000> at the end of the month
<thorwil> so the release will be late in october
<newz2000> yes, let me get the release date...
<newz2000> Oct 30th thorwil
<thorwil> oh, thanks!
<thorwil> and here i was worried i would have to get things ready middle of this month :)
<newz2000> no
<newz2000> though I'm getting concerned about the feature tour
<newz2000> hmm
<newz2000> I'm going to have to take the reigns on this I think
<newz2000> (feature tour)
<qense> hello nand
<thorwil> emunkki: i just completed my script and now have a svg with 5 columns and 32 rows. 30 days + coming_soon and its_here in 5 series
<emunkki> ok
<thorwil> emunkki: there's a specifically named rect for each position on a dedicated layer. so you can lock the other layers and select all rects and export all at once
<emunkki> thorwil, meet apachelogger :)
<thorwil> hello apachelogger
<nand> qense: hello!
<qense> How do you do?
<nand> and hello to the others too!
<qense> I saw you were busy with IdeaTorrent lately
<emunkki> thorwil, he is interested on that :)
<qense> Are things going well with that?
<thorwil> emunkki: you can have the python script, the complete svg with my designs or just the array i used with my content removed
<nand> qense: yep, the update is going to be real soon (tm)
<nand> read, one week to three
<apachelogger> hey thorwil
<qense> nice!
<nand> saw you set up another meeting
<qense> I'm trying to
<nand> concerning myself, monday and tuesday 19UTC will do it
<thorwil> apachelogger: so i was talking to emunkki about batch export from svg in inkscape for countdown images
<qense> I'll note that
<nand> unfortunately, new job keep me late :(
<thorwil> apachelogger: i just completed a script to edit my svg file and now have a svg with 5 columns and 32 rows. 30 days + coming_soon and its_here in 5 series
<thorwil> apachelogger: there's a specifically named rect for each position on a dedicated layer. so you can lock the other layers and select all rects and export all at once
<thorwil> apachelogger: : you can have the python script, the complete svg with my designs or just the array i used with my content removed
<apachelogger> thorwil: can you throw everything in a bzr branch?
<apachelogger> btw, I think the exporting should be done daily using a cron job
<qense> I just got one response on that mail though. Someone said I should try to get more publicity. :S
<thorwil> apachelogger: why a bzr branch? i'd rather mail you and you can do as you please :)
<thorwil> apachelogger: i have to hunt for food, bbl
<apachelogger> thorwil: I think such stuff should be pretty free ;-)
<apachelogger> but a mail is ok as well
<nand> qense: indeed you should!
<qense> yeah
<qense> There are really too few people working on the project.
<qense> Although I have to say that you also seem quite lonely at the IdeaStorm project. You've been the only one who recently committed.
<nand> you may try another time in the forums, show how it looks like now, how you want to look it like later. Your last post didn't introduce much about ubuntu wanted, it just said "hey, come to my meeting", but it was rather short on what is actually UB
<nand> qense: I've been the single contributor since the start. A project starts attracting people either because of a strong leader, or/and because of an interesting project
<nand> the thing is, don't expect people to magically come and help
<qense> I know :)
<nand> the beginning will be hard, but once it is beginning to give results, people see that you are serious about it
<qense> before I'm trying to get some more attention again I think I should finish the submission and application page first.
<nand> yep, good idea
<qense> Maybe I should blog more often about new functions I just implemented, like they do with the LP API.
<nand> yep, that may help
<thorwil> apachelogger: email address, please. would you like the svg with or without my designs?
<apachelogger> thorwil: apachelogger@ubuntu.com I guess with design makes more sense
<thorwil> apachelogger: send. i just tested batch export and it works, but i noticed slight irregularities in the series and don't know yet where it comes from. otherwise, i only intend to replace the ibex and be done with it :)
<apachelogger> thorwil: thank you, I will take a look at it as soon as I finished compiling my new kernel ;-)
<thorwil> np
<newz2000> wow, I just popped onto #django and they have over 600 people in there. I wonder if that's because of the 1.0 release
<thorwil> apachelogger: 14 days in the first column has 2 layered copies which rendered as stronger colors
<thorwil> gnah. same for the 30 days in first column
 * thorwil shuts down for the day
<ryanakca> newz2000: ping, who do I poke for bugs in the wiki theme?
<newz2000> mdke is working on it
<newz2000> wait
<newz2000> do you mean the new theme he posted to the list or the old theme?
<ryanakca> newz2000: old theme on wiki.kubuntu.org ...
<newz2000> oh, that would probably be me
<ryanakca> newz2000: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/253931
<ubot3> Malone bug 253931 in kubuntu-website "Documentation tab on http://wiki.kubuntu.org/ should be removed" [Undecided,New]
 * newz2000 checks
<ryanakca> newz2000: Also, could you take care of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/kubuntu-website/+bug/255390 (should be quick enough of a fix)
<ubot3> Malone bug 255390 in kubuntu-website "Kubuntu download form accessible separately on www.ubuntu.com" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ryanakca> please :)
<newz2000> I don't think I can fix that one
<newz2000> it has to have a url on ubuntu.com or it won't work (since its an iframe)
<ryanakca> newz2000: yes, but, noindex :)
<newz2000> well, I guess we could do the opposite of a frame buster...
<ryanakca> I think he was only complaining that it was showing up in Google and it might get people mixed up as to which form they should use to download it...
<newz2000> oh, I see
<newz2000> well, I can try the reverse frame buster to force users who happen on it to the kubuntu download page
<newz2000> or something
<newz2000> ryanakca: would you email me so I don't forget? I can't do it right this moment. (both bugs)
<newz2000> then I can just reply when done
<ryanakca> *nod*, thanks
<ryanakca> newz2000: An email per bug or one for two?
<newz2000> just one email is fine
<mdke> i was thinking of creating a moin-themes project on Launchpad for hosting theme branches. Does that sound like a bad idea?
<newz2000> it sounds a little generic, but otherwise a good plan
<newz2000> we could put it under ubuntu-website
<ryanakca> I can't see why it would be... we (or Kubuntu does) has the Drupal ones... I'd prefix ubuntu- or kubuntu- though
<ryanakca> s/has/have/g
<ryanakca> s/would be/would be a bad idea/g
<newz2000> ryanakca: don't worry, we'll forgive you since English isn't your native language. ;-)
 * newz2000 chuckles
<ryanakca> newz2000: thanks :D
<mdke> ryanakca: where do you put the drupal themes?
<ryanakca> mdke: lp:~kubuntu-website/kubuntu-website/kubuntu-theme-v2
<mdke> ah. Ok, ubuntu-website it is :)
<mdke> scrap the moin-themes idea
<ryanakca> Gah. That line wasn't at all logical. Ignore it :)
<newz2000> mdke: let me know if you need anything to publish there (like permissions/group memebership)
<mdke> newz2000: nope, I'm in the group :p
<newz2000> cool
<ryanakca> mdke: btw, the link to your Masters thesis on your "About Me" page is broken
<mdke> ryanakca: hah, you don't want to read that
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-10
<qense> hello
<mpt> "Get it while it's hot." -- Ubuntu 7.04 feature tour
<newz2000> mpt: what's that?
<mpt> newz2000, http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704tour#head-d1c6a48a219c4ea353a5b0d90bc795bfd10fd176
<newz2000> ah
<mpt> Not that it matters much any more, but it's also confusing for all the links in what appears to be a table of contents to go off to wiki.ubuntu.com instead of going to the relevant part of the same page
<thorwil> newz2000: regarding ubuntu.com vs ubuntu-nl.org, what about content negotiation?
<Volans> thorwil: I think is just google that puts localized results before international ones
<thorwil> i think the debian site does it. presenting the site in the preferred language of the user
<newz2000> we do that for the start page
<newz2000> we've chosen not to translate ubuntu.com but we're discussing an upcoming project of linking to localized sites in the header
<Volans> for example in italian, if I search "ubuntu" in the google search of firefox the first 4 results are:
<Volans> www.ubuntu-it.org/
<Volans> www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=Ottenere_Ubuntu   // equivalent to getubuntu and link directly the download page in the ubuntu.com site
<Volans> www.ubuntu.com/
<Volans> www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
<thorwil> newz2000: well, ok, linking to appropriate localized sites is the second best thing, i think :)
<newz2000> thorwil: yeah, I think that would help satisfy the complaint of Erik's first tester who was upset that it was only in English
<thorwil> newz2000: regarding the problems of users not understanding what server vs desktop means, i wonder if images that depict suitable environments for each would help
<newz2000> good idea
<Volans> newz2000: maybe we can make only the homepage translated and with automatic language recogniction where is explained that the site is in english and the relative localized site is XXX and the download page is YYY
<newz2000> I doubt it
<newz2000> we're constantly changing homepage graphics and needing to translate them would slow things down considerably
<Volans> newz2000: I don't think a "translated" homepage stricty... but only a page that have 3-4 big things like buttons
<Volans> to send the user to the right place
<newz2000> well, my idea was to put a link near the top that says in your native language, "get help in Italian" or whatever.
<newz2000> Then a localized page on ubuntu.com that explains the italian resources
<Volans> oh yeah, good solution as well
<Volans> and maybe the possibility do download without the english page
<newz2000> yes, that would probably be a good candidate for locailzation
<newz2000> since its hard for community members to maintain localized versions of that page
<Volans> iirc we have a localized "copy" of that
<Volans> the one I have linked above
<Volans> but probably not all the locoteam have one
<newz2000> yes, but it won't get udated automatically with new mirrors
<Volans> sure
<Volans> and as we have already discussed in the past, the choose of the mirror is a complicated and useless step for a normal user
<newz2000> yes, I should see if the sysadmins will evaluate that geoip apache module
<newz2000> maybe we can do some a/b testing for this release and implement it fully by the end of the year
<thorwil> does it actually say "mirror"? something like "download location" or just "download from" should be easier to understand
<newz2000> choose a location near you
<Volans> newz2000: take a look at the download page od opensuse: http://software.opensuse.org/ there are some interesting trick (I prefer something a little more graphical)
 * newz2000 wishes opera would stop being the default for clicking links in pidgin
<newz2000> yuck
<newz2000> there are some good things there
 * newz2000 doesn't like the yellow
<Volans> the fedora's one is so complicated... http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora there is a mixture of architechture, media (CD, DVD), torrent, Live...
<qense> hello
<newz2000> hi qense
<Volans> hi qense
<thorwil> hi qense
<newz2000> I have an idea...
<newz2000> reneable the js ajax based geoip
<newz2000> set a reasonable timeout (750ms maybe)
<newz2000> let php generate a list of the 10 fastest mirrors with good international bandwidth
<newz2000> and store them in a js array sent to the page
<newz2000> if the ajax fails to return in 750ms then it just randomly chooses one of the top 10 mirrors
<newz2000> if the ajax does return it uses a local mirror
<Volans> newz2000: what kind of geo control you want to make, on the IP, on the locale used in the browser, etc...
<Volans> ?
<newz2000> IP -> country
<newz2000> for the download location select list
<Volans> maybe excluding some strange ip like tor if possible
<newz2000> that would allow us to ditch that list
<newz2000> brb
<newz2000> hi, would you guys do me a quick test?
<newz2000> visit http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/temp
<Volans> sure
<newz2000> hit shift+reload
<newz2000> and tell me if shows your IP address
<Volans> the first ip was not mine, after ctrl+r is changed and is mine
<newz2000> cool
<newz2000> anyone else confirm? especially if you use an ISP/network with a proxy
<Volans> I have public Ip but use a router, so the ip on my card is 192.168.x.x
<Volans> but no proxy
<qense> the second is indeed mine
<qense> no proxy
<newz2000> I'm looking for the public ip
<newz2000> cool
<newz2000> I wonder where I can find some proxy users
 * newz2000 knows one...
<Volans> I can confirm with http://www.geekproxy.com
<thorwil> show's my natting routers ip
<Volans> but what is the trouble newz2000? is the ip of the connected user... or you have problem with the proxy-cache?
<newz2000> my concern is, lets say you have an office with IPs of 10.0.1.xxx and a proxy server with 10.11.12.13
<newz2000> (as the public IP)
<newz2000> I want to ensure my code returns 10.11.12.13, not 10.0.1.xxx
<newz2000> (kind of a bad example)
<Volans> but is javascript or php?
<newz2000> php
<newz2000> javascript can't get a user's IP address
<Volans> with ajax yes ;)
<newz2000> that's what I'm testing here... the php code that returns the user's public ip address
<newz2000> I want to ensure it works correctly even for users behind a proxy
<qense> I do use a switch, but no proxy
<Volans> newz2000: as I know you use a proxy-cache on ubuntu.com, right?
<qense> we do have a proxy at school, i could test it by connecting to the webserver using rdp ;)
<newz2000> qense: would you mind? that would be perfect
<qense> ok
<newz2000> Volans: right, this wouldn't be a problem if it werern't for the fact that ubuntu.com is behind two proxy servers. :-)
<newz2000> so I get an array when I look at the forwarded_for header
<Volans> In this case you have to use a more long code to be sure that is the user IP
<Volans> if you want I have the code that SMF use (and I have patched) to work with the proxy-cache the sysadmins have put behind ubuntu-it on april
<newz2000> here's what I did: http://pastebin.com/d661406a0
<qense> stupid server, keeps bugging me with apache crash reports, even though its still running
<Volans> this is the one SMF use (and I have patched a little): http://pastebin.com/de828868 note the array_reverse in the FORWARDED FOR section
<qense> (my apologizes for ther lack of punctuation. typing is hard with one arm in a mitella, coding even harder)
<Volans> when I print the variable I see: [HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR] => 87.21.x.x, 127.0.0.199
<qense> the website renders horrible in IE6, bt
<Volans> the first one (and not the last one) is my ip, while SMF would make the contrary
<qense> BUG: can't read page content of main site in IE6
<Volans> qense: javascript enabled?
<newz2000> can't read it at all?
<qense> the footer is halfway over the breadcrumbs
<qense> im going to check if js is enbled
<newz2000> hmm
<newz2000> that's bad
 * newz2000 bangs head on desk
<qense> Why are options considered a tool by MS?
<qense> or extra?
<newz2000> Volans: that's far more complex because it needs to handle more corner cases than I do, but I think fundamentally the same (smf code)
<Volans> yes, it cover more possibility and probably is more "safe" i something change in the proxy-cache architecture
<qense> where is the javascript option in IE6?
<Volans> also newz2000 it excludes all the private ip
<Volans> 172, 192.168. 10, etc...
<newz2000> well, I'm making an assumption that the last non-127... IP is the public ip address
<newz2000> based on current server architecture
<Volans> I think is better to exclude all reserved IPs... is simple and more safe ;)
<Volans> I can confirm IE6 on XP virualized... the footer cover the content
<Volans> but I can copy and paste in an editor
<qense> newz2000: img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmpdnp8.JPG
<Volans> and see the ip :D
<qense> tmpdn8.JPG*
<qense> need to go now, dinner time
<newz2000> I'm affrade to look
<newz2000> thanks qense
<qense> ill test again after dinner
<qense> bye!
<Volans> newz2000: on VBox I get the wrong IP: 217.123.200.31 -> 31.200.123.217.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ck523187-a.dokku1.fr.home.nl.
<newz2000> did you do a shift+reload?
<Volans> yes many times and is alwais the same
<newz2000> Volans: are you using IE? in that case I think it's ctrl+F5
 * newz2000 strrts up vbox...
<Volans> hitting www.whatismyip.com from VBox say the same IP that I see from the host
<Volans> tried also ctrl+f5
<Volans> same as above
<newz2000> oh, bad news, it works for me in vbox. I hate that.
<Volans> newz2000: also for me with oither browsers...
<Volans> IE6 is the only one atm
<Volans> and the first IP I see is a 7x something
<newz2000> that's mine
<newz2000> so its jst a cache problem
<Volans> oh
<Volans> it works now
<Volans> server cache problem
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> ok, so based on our limited testing we have a solution that grabs the correct IP address
<Volans> and you want to use the ip to make a geolocation?
<newz2000> yes
<Volans> making a little db where to save those?
<newz2000> no, I don't need to save them, the geoip database uses a hash lookup table I can use to get the user's country
<newz2000> so I just need to tell it the ip and it will tell me their country
<qense> back
<qense> woot! there is FF at the server!
<Volans> qense: what do you mean?
<qense> i cant test it with ie, since the site doesnt work there
<qense> it seems to work from behind a proxy
<qense> the firts ip was right, i even didnt have to reload
<Volans> ok
<Volans> I have to go now... bye bye
<newz2000> qense: regarding IE, I can't reproduce nor could I see your screenshot
<qense> it was img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmpdn8.JPG , i provided a wrong link
<qense> wrong link again
<qense> i think ive lost the link
<newz2000> no sweat
<newz2000> I think the solution is the same regardless
<qense> switch!
<newz2000> I plan to migrate ubuntu.com to the same theme as https://shipit.ubuntu.com
<newz2000> I've just got to take the time to do the drupal theme
<qense> shitit has got a good theme
<newz2000> he he
<qense> oops xd
<newz2000> I can't tell you how many times I've done that
<qense> hello nand
<nand> heya!
<qense> how's the mailer configured at ideatorrent.org?
<qense> i think that the crrent problems i have with the application form are caused by my own system
<nand> well, it works (devel.ideatorrent.org sends mail)
<nand> you should test locally
<qense> i cant get postfix t work
<qense> it does get to that stage though
<qense> the real problem is the mailer
<qense> sendmail was blocked by spamhaus.org, postfix just doesnt seem to work
<nand> (I'll be back, dinner time)
<qense> have a nice dinner!
<nand> qense: you can use the code in brainstorm as an example
<qense> it's working now
<qense> :)(
<qense> I didn't get the activation mail for the account at the devel version. Are you sure the mailer works?
<nand> qense: I confirm it's working
<nand> just got my replacement email from drupal
<qense> ok, that's weird
<qense> could you try if the application form works at the devel host too?
<nand> qense: which form?
<qense> the form you get when you press apply
<qense> i made the poster of the first task uncontactable to test that
<nand> I don't have a "apply" button here
<qense> really?
<qense> you are browsing another task than task 1, are you?
<qense> and logged in?
<nand> I *just* updated the bazaar branch
<nand> So I guess you are not using http://ubuntu-wanted-devel.ideatorrent.org/
<nand> *NOW* I get the apply button
<qense> I finally got the activation mail
<nand> me too
<qense> the application form works!
<qense> well, i'm going to shut down now, bye!
<thorwil> newz2000: i have to run now, but just got this up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_05_spiral.png
<thorwil> newz2000: the old ibex shape had to go because of possible copyright issues and a broken right horn
<newz2000> :-)
<newz2000> nice work
<newz2000> I can't believe you've done all of those
<thorwil> thanks!
<thorwil> me neither ;)
<thorwil> newz2000: take a look at the bottom for the last 2 columns
<newz2000> what's different about the last two cols?
<thorwil> newz2000: the 4th column, turquoise/blue is my personal favorite. tomorrow i would like to know which ones can be offered and whether you need another format
<thorwil> newz2000: they get brighter towards the end, to support the sunrise idea
<newz2000> ah
<newz2000> I'll show it to a few others
<newz2000> though they probably won't see it until tomorrow
<thorwil> newz2000: oh dang! i just notice i forgot something in 4th column, 14 to 10 days
<thorwil> the outer dots have the wrong color
<thorwil> well, small fix tomorrow
<newz2000> yeah, don't sweat it yet
<thorwil> good night! :)
<ryanakca> newz2000: d'you know of anybody else who could run bzr up for us?
<jpds> I've already assigned poor n.g to the task.
<newz2000> lamont may be able to, though its nearly the end of his day too
<ryanakca> newz2000: okies, thanks :)
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-11
<hubuntu> the wiki.ubuntu.com site seems to be down
<hubuntu> a Proxy error
<qense> hello
<hubuntu> hei qense
<hubuntu> newz2000, I got a 404.html template does not exist under webapps
<hubuntu> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/latinamerica/ecuador/
<qense> hello
<thorwil> newz2000: do you happen to know how to batch-flatten png images (remove alpha)?
<newz2000> well, one way to do it is in inkscape, before you export, draw a huge white rectangle behind everything
<thorwil> oh :)
<newz2000> if you've already exported then it shouldn't be too hard to create  alittle python script that does the same thing to the individual pngs
<thorwil> well, i found an imagemagick line, but the resulting files are larger!
<newz2000> yeah, I have that problem with imagemagick... it's not as good at optimizing
<newz2000> try pngcrush on one of them post-processed images
<thorwil> will do. trying to use gimp script-fu is a disaster so far :)
<newz2000> yeah, I've not had great luck with that either
<thorwil> pngcrush gets a little more out of it than gimp
<thorwil> using  pngcrush -c 2 -reduce
<thorwil> newz2000: the largest file is 16 KB now. i hope that's acceptable, as this is tough material, having gradients and flat color with sharp edges
<newz2000> that should be ok, would you mind trying one as an 8bit png though?
<newz2000> if it works we'll script it and convert the rest
<newz2000> use your judgement if you think it provides useful results. Sometimes it gives a nearly unnoticable change in the image but cuts the size to 1/3rd
<thorwil> newz2000: seems to work with 256 colors for said largest image. actually, the A series asks for indexing
<newz2000> it looks ok?
<newz2000> hey, it looks like I have an email regarding your image... just a sec
<newz2000> it looks like the favs are col 1 and 3
<newz2000> the "brand identity" person likes #3 the most
<thorwil> newz2000: on first look, no difference. on a second look, there is slight color-banding
<newz2000> what is the diff in filesize?
<thorwil> 16 to 8.2
<newz2000> I think its worth it
<newz2000> (imho)
<thorwil> newz2000: i would lean more towards col 3, but only because of the last image
<newz2000> I think that's where she's leaning too, but the marketing director says we should offer people both, are you OK with that?
<thorwil> newz2000: yes. i would even like to also offer col 4. it would be an interesting experiment to see which one gets picked most :)
<newz2000> yes, we should track that, but in a way that won't tax our system or invade site's (and their users') privacy
<thorwil> newz2000: oh, wait, col 3 yes but col 5 not?
<newz2000> maybe turn it into a little form and they submit it to choose which one they'll use on their site
 * newz2000 confirms
<newz2000> they said col 3 is the fav and we should offer a white background too
<newz2000> col 5 is your fav?
<thorwil> nope, 4
<newz2000> I forgot to mention how the bg gets lighter successively. Let me run that by them, they might think it's cool and change their mind
<thorwil> newz2000: i will put up the current set in an hour or so
<thorwil> just slight fixes and a tweaked ibex
<newz2000> ok
<thorwil> newz2000: then i would like to send you the files
<thorwil> but now for a break :)
<newz2000> ooh, a break sounds nice
<thorwil> nealmcb: still glad that you like the hands countdown, but i will remove your note on the wiki as i already removed my outdated pictures. maybe the hands can return for next release+1 :)
<nealmcb> thorwil: hmmm - sad to see a good idea disappear - perhaps it can just be titled as old, or moved to an archival page?
<newz2000> no need to delete it from the page, leave it for posterity sake
<thorwil> nealmcb: fear not, for it sleeps in my archive
<thorwil> newz2000: too late
<nealmcb> easy to revert on the wiki
<newz2000> even deleting attachments?
<thorwil> no idea about reverting deletes
<thorwil> ok, if you want, i'll readd just the hands by tomorrow
<newz2000> its your call
<newz2000> but if its is up there some day, someone will look at it and be inspired
<thorwil> newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_06_spiral.png
<newz2000> oh yeah, clicking links in pidgin works again
<newz2000> did you move the ibex's leg?
<thorwil> newz2000: i moved various nodes, including of the legs
<newz2000> it looks good
<thorwil> thanks!
<thorwil> newz2000: may i mail you a 3.4 mb archive?
<newz2000> yes, sure. go to newz@bearfruit.org
<thorwil> newz2000: send. PNGs in there are not indexed, all lossless. especially the A series can be indexed with fewer than 128 colors, but my eyes are too tired to care about that now. also included scrip an notes, as they might be useful in the next run :)
<newz2000> cool, I look forward to getting them
<thorwil> apachelogger: interested in an updated SVG?
<thorwil> apachelogger: well, ask newz2000 if you do :)
<thorwil> good night! :)
<Robb_M> hey where can i report a bug against the ubuntu website? i forgot the link....i found a typo in a link on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/communitysupport (red link at top "The gift of knowledge"  has "desktop trainingin september" there should be a space in there.)
 * newz2000 looks
 * newz2000 smacks his head
<Robb_M> just making you aware :)
<newz2000> thanks Robb_M no need to file a bug, I'll correct it asap
<Robb_M> I had to read it like 6 times man.
<Robb_M> I didnt see it either till i really read it.
<Robb_M> heh
<newz2000> fixed
<Robb_M> awesome
<Robb_M> yeah its fixed on this end as well :)
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-12
<IceflamePhoenix> Afternoon. This probably isn't vitally important, but I've noticed a typo on the main website.
<emunkki> IceflamePhoenix, spit it out
<IceflamePhoenix> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/804features/productivity-tools/
<IceflamePhoenix> Instant messaging
<IceflamePhoenix> Pidgin IM is the extremely popular open source messaing tool.
<IceflamePhoenix> *messaing*
<IceflamePhoenix> Irony ftw.
<emunkki> IceflamePhoenix, ok. i hope somebody will address this issue. thanks.
<IceflamePhoenix> No problem, enjoy =)
<newz2000> got it
<thorwil> newz2000: hi. yesterday you mentioned someone being responsible for branding. not kenneth and not gerry carr?
<newz2000> correct, her name is Kat Kinnie
<thorwil> new?
<newz2000> started a year ago
<newz2000> she mostly works in the world of print, the shop.canonical.com is under her wing
<newz2000> ^but the shop...
<thorwil> ah, guess that explains why i hear of there even being such a position first time :)
<thorwil> newz2000: is there a plan for a countdown in the ubuntu.com banner?
<newz2000> yeah, I'm not 100% certain but I think it will be your column 3
<thorwil> hopefully only for the last few days :)
<newz2000> why's that?
<thorwil> oops, that was my lazy twin self ;)
<thorwil> well, the aspect is similar enough that it shouldn't be a problem
<newz2000> remember people won't look at the images side by side
<newz2000> they only get to see one per day
<thorwil> newz2000: sure. if you flip through my images, you will see how the numbers seem to move. they are optimized for each single image, not for the series
<thorwil> newz2000: anyway, i greatly appreciate your responsiveness and will wait for specifics for the banner :)
<newz2000> I'm eager to hear back from them too... and there's no need to thank me, I'm thanking you!
<thorwil> well, yw :)
<thorwil> dang, how do i get to old revisions of wiki pages?
<newz2000> click the info link
<thorwil> oh!
 * thorwil puts hands back on the wiki
<thorwil> poor dholbach, is he subscribed to all pages, or just all i ever edited by coincidence? :)
<newz2000> I think he subscribed to them all
<newz2000> hi Volans, had any luck with html2po yet?
<Volans>  Hi newz2000, yes, I have done some work and tests, with some indentation changes in the html it works
<newz2000> cool
<Volans> I would do some more imporvements before release it
<Volans> maybe tomorrow
<newz2000> I have the details from Gerry and we've decided on the changes to the layout
<newz2000> there's going to be far less text for one thing
<Volans> great! and you have a mockup or something like that?
<newz2000> we're going to go with Lizzeh's mockup on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidStartPage
<Volans> only for the online version or also the offline will be changed?
<newz2000> Good question
<newz2000> lets assume this is for the online version for now
<Volans> ok, because the only problem is that for a more safely and automatic use of html2po the starting html and po files should be manually checked/adapted
<newz2000> so if we don't have an html file yet, should we mockup something to get the strings out of it using html2po or should we just make a po file using a diff tool?
<Volans> the po file can be generated also manually or with other tools if we already have all the texts, irrespective of the html structure, but before send the po file to the doc teams I think is always better to check it with the final html
<newz2000> ok
<Volans> if you want I can also put on LP the po file and some code to generate the html files for the actual version of the start page
<newz2000> so just discussed it with gerry
<newz2000> Volans: hold tight
<newz2000> but be ready
<newz2000> I'm going to send the email to the list about what we need to do
<Volans> ok :)
<newz2000> and I'll say that you're leading the technical efforts for the translation infrastructure (if that's ok with you)
<Volans> don't mention it...
<newz2000> ok
<Volans> newz2000: I have read the email, why "no local search or ubuntu search" ? Perhaps is due to problem/complicated stuff with Google and Mozilla?
<newz2000> Volans: goal is for fewer options, simpler interface
<Volans> ok, I will reply to the email in a while
<Volans> newz2000: thank you for the reply in list, I agree with most of the things you say
<newz2000> I'm eager to see this done...
<newz2000> next we'll I'll move the feature tour forward and it looks to me like we'll complete our 3 major tasks for intrepid release
<mdke> I'm still a bit concerned about introducing html2po infrastructure into ubuntu-docs for intrepid
<mdke> I'm working to cleanup the packaging to make it less delicate, so maybe it will be possible...
<Volans> mdke: as you want, if you prefer for Jaunty, no problem
<newz2000> mdke: there is a build script we use currently, the end result will be just some plain html files
<Volans> but if the offline page will change
<Volans> until we have the definitive page, we can't create the po file to be uploaded to launchpad
<mdke> newz2000: the thing is, ubuntu-docs currently uses a very precise list of localisations, once we introduce Launchpad into the mix, we're going to be screwed
<mdke> newz2000: what I'm trying to sort out is how to remove the "very precise list" bit from ubuntu-docs
<Volans> mdke: there is a specific reason for that "very precise list"?
<newz2000> mdke: does that mean you're trying not to get any new translations at the moment?
<mdke> Volans: yes, historical
<mdke> newz2000: no, new translations are welcome
<newz2000> mdke: is your concern that some translations that are currently included might get left out?
<mdke> newz2000: no, my concern is that if we implement automatic translations for ubuntu-docs something will break
<mdke> anyway, as I say, I'm hoping to cleanup the situation - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026434.html
<Volans> mdke: let me explain a little the work I have done
<newz2000> oh, I see. Well, there's not going to be anything automatic yet
<mdke> Volans: sure
<Volans> I have found the way to make a po file with the strings for the start page
<Volans> so we can put that file on LP and let the doc teams translate it
<Volans> after that a script will automatically generate the translated html files for the start page
<Volans> NOT the structure made by the ubuntu-doc package
<Volans> I'm able to reproduce the "source" html files that actually are in the source package ubuntu-doc
<mdke> I'm pretty familiar with po file toolchains, we use them for every document in ubuntu-docs EXCEPT the startpage
<Volans> the package itself will generate all the delicate stuff, symbolic link etc of the start page in the system
<mdke> I know how it all works, and I understand and approve of what you're doing - I'm just saying that until we fix ubuntu-docs, it's difficult to use it
<mdke> Volans: send me all the code and I'll try and have a look at it this weekend when I look at trying to fix the problems I've got
<Volans> ok, sure, I can sent to you it tomorrow morning
<mdke> Volans: fine, thanks
<mdke> gtg now, catch you later
<Volans> newz2000: the start page is seen also after a release upgrade?
<newz2000> Volans: I'm not 100% confident but I believe so
<newz2000> I think its shown after every firefox update
<newz2000> I've seen it a few times in the last few months
<Volans> maybe I can ask asac for that, just to be sure
<Volans> because I was wondering that a new Ubuntu user (fresh installation) have really different needs in respect to a user that have done an upgrade
<newz2000> I think we're targeting the new user with this
<newz2000> also there's another user...
<newz2000> OEM's (like dell) may use this same start page but may not offer quite the same desktop experience
<Volans> right, so lot of different users, and we can't make a page for each of those
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-13
 * Volans go to sleep, see you
<qense> hello
<thorwil> bonjour nand
<nand> guten tag thorwil!
<qense> hello
<Volans> mdke: I have sent to you the email with the code we have spoken yesterday night, feel free to ping me for every question
<Volans> newz2000: perhaps are you there?
#ubuntu-website 2008-09-14
<mdke> newz2000: did you fix the RecentChanges overspill in the wiki theme? it seems to be working now, and I didn't touch it!
<nand> hey! maybe time to arbitraly set a meeting time
<qense> hello
<nand> qense: hey! seems I forgot to put your name in the front of my previous sentence
<qense> I gues you're right.
<qense> But I'm sure if anyone is going to come, you were the only one who let me know what time would fit yourself the best
<qense> dinner time now
#ubuntu-website 2009-09-07
<dpm> newz2000: hi Matthew. Could you please have a look at bug 362949? The Asturian community has been several months without being able to use their language on the start page because of that one
<dpm> hmm, no bugbot. Here's the direct link :-) -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/362949
<emmajane> ping newz2000: hey :) Is it ok to use 960.gs for layout? YUI 3 doesn't seem to have grids anymore...
#ubuntu-website 2009-09-09
<Grantbow> Who can update www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/faq with the names for Intrepid, Jaunty and Karmic?
<Grantbow> bug#426635 filed
<dpm> newz2000: hi, could you please look into bug 362949?
<ubot3> Malone bug 362949 in ubuntu-start-page "start.ubuntu.com webserver does not supports Asturian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362949
<newz2000> hi dpm. Yes, I've looked into it and will set up a time w/ other parties to get this fixed by release day
<dpm> newz2000: ok, great, thanks. Could you please comment on the bug to let the Asturian community members this is being worked on?
<newz2000> yeah, that would be good wouldn't it? I think this is actually a duplicate bug so will work it out so that people understand
<jpds> newz2000: You in London?
<newz2000> jpds: Des Moines, Iowa, USA
<jpds> Ah, right.
<SiDi> (Des Moines means Some Monks in my language :P)
<newz2000> yeah, I think the french just tried to spell the native american name as well as they could
<newz2000> There really aren't too many monks around here. :-)
<newz2000> Though I did meet a Buddhist monk at a concert not too long ago
<SiDi> hehe
<SiDi> i think he arrived long after the french, though :D
<emmajane> newz2000, ping :)
<newz2000> hello emmajane
<emmajane> newz2000, hey :)
<emmajane> newz2000, I'm delighted you like the new mockup.
<emmajane> I'm just adding a google search to the bazaar site. is there a way to make it look less like their crappy bloated widget?
<emmajane> I think one of the ubuntu sites uses google search..maybe?
<newz2000> Yes, the trick is to set up google custom search through adsense
<newz2000> it will still have ads, the only way to avoid that is to use the paid version
<emmajane> ah. ok.
<emmajane> should I get poolie to set that up? or would that be something he'd hand off to IS?
<emmajane> (surprisingly, I don't want to be the forever overlord of the bazaar search)
<newz2000> yeah, good question
<emmajane> he gave me one through their custom search.
<newz2000> do you have an account you can use to experiment with?
<newz2000> oh
<emmajane> (which was tied to his account)
<newz2000> yes, then that'd how I'd proceed, through his
 * emmajane nods
<emmajane> thanks :)
<newz2000> let me look to see how I did it on search.ubuntu.com I seem to remember it not being obvious
<emmajane> I was just checking help. and it was lovely.
<newz2000> the one we're using is purely javascript based but allows the nicest themeing (of the free versions)
<emmajane> newz2000, search. looks nice too.
 * emmajane nods
<newz2000> emmajane: http://www.google.com/cse/docs/
<newz2000> "the developer guide" has some good stuff
<newz2000> search.u.c uses the js version, lauchpad.net uses the xml version which requires server side code
<newz2000> both allow rich themeing
<emmajane> newz2000, http://www.gmodules.com/ig/creator?url=http://www.google.com/cse/api/009852948614216791564/cse/dr5xzrczfnu/gadget&synd=open&w=320&h=75&title=Bazaar+site+search+engine&border=%23ffffff%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23004488%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%23005599%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230077BB%7C0px%2C1px+solid+%230088CC <--- does that link work?
<newz2000> yeah, takes me to an "add this gadget to you rpage" bazaar site search
<newz2000> which does seem to give relevant links
<emmajane> http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=009852948614216791564%3Adr5xzrczfnu <-- that's the page if it doesn't work...
<emmajane> ah.
 * emmajane looks in the developer guide.
<emmajane> thanks for the link :)
<newz2000> There is a guy inside canonical who knows so much about this
<newz2000> named dustin kirkland
<newz2000> I can get you in touch with him if you get stuck. He really really likes this kind of stuff.
<emmajane> I think I follow dustin on identi.ca :)
<emmajane> heh
<emmajane> we all need hobbies, eh?
<newz2000> indeed
<emmajane> http://code.google.com/intl/en/apis/customsearch/docs/ui.html#searchbox looks usefful
<newz2000> Scroll down to "presenting the rsults on the same page"
<newz2000> that may be what you want
<emmajane> ok
<newz2000> emmajane: did you see this floating around in the last few days? http://www.baselinecss.com/
<emmajane> isn't baseline css just a pipe dream?
 * emmajane looks
<newz2000> a newish grid framework
<newz2000> incorporates html 5 stuff
<emmajane> ahh, cool!
<newz2000> may be a little cutting edge but definitely the way of the future
<emmajane> I still need to update the 960 style sheets to use ems instead of fixed px.
<newz2000> I'm using 960 on ubuntu.com now but I really wish I could combine it with blueprint
<newz2000> I love and dislike things about both
 * emmajane nods
<emmajane> Oo. I met Mark Boulton at DrupalCon. That was pretty cool.
<newz2000> I would expect you'd meet a lot of cool people at drupalcon. :-)
<emmajane> I know most of the drupal folks just  from IRC and it was nice to meet someone from the outside world. ;)
<newz2000> yeah, that is nice.
<newz2000> oh, just checked out 960's website and one of my beefs has been fixed... there's now a generator for custom dimensions
<emmajane> \o/
<emmajane> someone was complaining recently about fixed vs. fluid. but they've had that for a while too.
<knome> drupal? nice?
<knome> where's the negative
<emmajane> I spent a couple of hours looking at the YUI grid stuff but then realized it was only in 2.x and was sad and went back to 960.
<newz2000> yui's grid does not follow the same versioning as the yui js library
 * emmajane nods.
<newz2000> it's not as nice as 960 or blueprint for sure, but it does have two things
<emmajane> and they've got huge DEPRECATEDs all over hte 3.x versino of the site.
<newz2000> it's nestable so you can put grids inside of grids easily, also it supports standard ad sizes easily
<emmajane> I liked the nested columns of various set widths. that seemed cool to me (although i don't have a problem with 960s adding up columns)
<emmajane> yah
<emmajane> I really liked the video on why they came to have what they've got.
<emmajane> it just seemed to be... rational.
<newz2000> yeah. I still don't want to use it though. :-)
<newz2000> hey knome, you and rime got anything exciting in mind for banners this time around?
<knome> not really. we can help with doing thing X, if you need, i think ;)
<knome> what do you think about the apng?
<newz2000> I think it's very clever. I'm open to using it.
<newz2000> But we need a message first
<knome> did you see my post on the ML?
<knome> specifically the concern about people "missing" something
<knome> i mean, in the last time, the point was to stay on the last frame
<knome> but now, if we put in an animated png...
<knome> how to keep the whole animation interesting?
<newz2000> Yeah, there are numerous question marks.
<newz2000> The real solution would be to just use the HTML5 <video> tag of course. :-)
<knome> i mean, the last time, i think the first frames were perfect. do we have anything like that this time?
<knome> is there any ideas or needs from canonical? what to emphasis on?
<newz2000> We don't need to emphasize on anything, the marketing dept specifically likes to leave that in the hands of the community
<newz2000> if we want to, we can focus on the social aspects of karmic
<knome> like.. what? :)
<knome> one thing we could do with apng is to have a static part telling the most important things and then a little bar witn running text
<newz2000> that would be clever
<newz2000> most important thing being the number of days
<knome> the only question mark is how much this would increase the file size
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> knome: why don't you sketch out your idea real quick and post it to the list or wiki?
<knome> meh ;)
<knome> what was the required size again?
<newz2000> 180x150
<knome> okay
<newz2000> It's okay if it's a rough drawing if you're just trying to get discussion going
<knome> well i can do a gif sketch
<knome> newz2000, http://emonk.fi/open/ubuntu/Karmic%20Countdown%20Banner/mockup.gif
<emmajane> hrm.
<emmajane> newz2000, http://search.ubuntu.com/ <--- is this the paid version? I can't figure out how I'd override the background image in the input text field.
<knome> what background image? :P
<newz2000> it was the paid version but we didn't renew (they wanted something like $70,000 per year) so it reverted to the normal version
<emmajane> newz2000, good lord.
<emmajane> newz2000, but weird on the bgimage. I guess you've got one of the XML settings files for it?
<knome> gosh, thunderbird fails.
<newz2000> I think there was just a line of js that I left out
 * emmajane looks again
<newz2000> a script tag that when excluded takes the watermark off
<emmajane> hrm. I must have something idfferent.
<emmajane> mine's just got:
<emmajane> (erm trying to copy from vim)
<knome> newz2000, sent mail to the ML
<emmajane>  39 <!-- Google Custom Search Element -->
<emmajane>  40 <div id="cse" class="grid_5 omega">Loading</div>
<emmajane>  41 <script src="http://www.google.com/jsapi" type="text/javascript"></script>
<emmajane>  42 <script type="text/javascript">
<emmajane>  43   google.load('search', '1');
<emmajane>  44   google.setOnLoadCallback(function(){
<emmajane>  45     var cse = new google.search.CustomSearchControl();
<emmajane>  46     cse.enableAds('009852948614216791564%3Adr5xzrczfnu');
<emmajane>  47     cse.draw('cse');
<emmajane>  48   }, true);
<emmajane>  49 </script>
<emmajane> ooooooooooooo channel spam
<emmajane> cse.draw('cse') does the actual creation of the search box.
<emmajane> so there's not a lot to remove from the widget I got.
<emmajane> newz2000, ^^
#ubuntu-website 2009-09-10
<emmajane> newz2000, thanks :)
<newz2000> emmajane: happy to help ;-)
<newz2000> We have a term for it, "bike shedding," and it's one of Canonical staff's favourite past times
<emmajane> newz2000, I know the term. :)
<emmajane> newz2000, My first core patch for drupal proposed this as the front page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmajane/3586458575/
<newz2000> hah!
<emmajane> surprisingly people couldn't decide what colour to paint it. ;)
<emmajane> newz2000, have you seen: http://nicksergeant.com/blog/everything-else/event-apart-boston-2009-recap ? I'm sure there are others as well but this is the first one I've bothered to read. Not sure if you've been to any of the Event Apart conferences?
<newz2000> no, not read that nor been to one of those events
 * newz2000 looks
<emmajane> it's got some fantastic one-liner quotes.
<newz2000> "Risk adverse companies produce crap"
<emmajane> "Why'd you create Comic Sans? â 'beacuse sometimes it's better than Times New Roman.'"
<emmajane> also: "There's like 50 letters in the alphabet, or something"
<newz2000> hah. I've said stuff like that before.
<newz2000> presenting is hard. You forget everything when there are a hundred people staring at you. :-)
<emmajane> :)
<AliTabuger7_> Hey newz2000. I'm sorry to bother you again, but it seems that SpreadUbuntu still has yet to get any sort of further response at RT. I'd be more patient, but without any sort of status feedback, I feel like its been a forgotten issue.
<knome> AliTabuger7_, as i've been told, IS is "very busy" and we have waited on several issues over a year now.
<AliTabuger7_> Ok. Thanks. I had no idea the kind of timeframe it would be.
<knome> i hope you will get better response.
<knome> even if our tickets are an annoyance, nothing depends on them so it's somehow acceptable it takes so long.
<AliTabuger7_> Yeah, that is kind of a long time. I was hoping to get the domain before Karmic.
<knome> mmh.
<knome> i suppose that has a bit bigger priority.
<knome> we only want both the xubuntu domains (.org & .com) point to same place and that subdomains (whatever.xubuntu.org) would rather show our default page than an apache directory listing.
<knome> the funny thing is that we would have fixed this thing for hundreds of times if we only had the rights to do it.
<AliTabuger7_> If the domain is going to your server, is there really a technical reason why you can't create subdomains?
<knome> the reason is that we have no administratory rights to do that.
<knome> IS must handle it.
<knome> i don't know the details on where the server is etc., but this is the situation.
#ubuntu-website 2009-09-11
<emmajane> mpt, ping :)
<mpt> hello
<emmajane> mpt, poolie and I had hoped to get your feedback on the latest design for the bazaar site.
<mpt> emmajane, ah, I saw all the other feedback you'd received and thought you'd think that was quite enough. :-)
<emmajane> mpt, pfffbt. They're all developers. what do they know? ;)
<mpt> haha
<mpt> Well, the target audience for this Web site *is* ~80% developers
<mpt> It's quite unusual in that way
<mpt> (though Launchpad has the same property)
<mpt> Sorry, Thunderbird is being useless at letting me find that design feedback thread
<emmajane> mpt, We're actually hoping to target non-developers as well. The developers are likely to ignore the front page anyway and come into the site via a side door on Google.
<emmajane> mpt, http://bazaar-vcs.org/BazaarPersonas
<emmajane> or just: lp:~emmajane/+junk/dancingmonkeys
<mpt> ah, thank you
<emmajane> erm the branch isn't an alternate to the personas.
<mpt> Yes, Kris is in the ~20% I was thinking of
 * emmajane nods.
<mpt> IT managers, CTOs, those sort of people
<emmajane> http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmajane/3902988367/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmajane/3903764440 for screenshots, but they don't really give the full context without the window decorations from the browser.
<emmajane> I've been thinking of the front page as the page for "vulnerable" people who need version control but are sort of afraid of it.
<emmajane> the programmers and devs and people who like version control will launch past the front page but still need something "friendly" to show their co-workers, bosses, etc.
<mpt> - Can I trust it?
<mpt> - Is it better than the alternatives?
 * emmajane nods
<mpt> emmajane, I agree with whoever it was who said that reusing the Bazaar icon for "Extend" was awkward -- I'd go so far as to say that varying the Bazaar logo itself is uncool unless it's actually for a Bazaar variant
 * emmajane nods
<mpt> A big green rounded button seems to be the emerging pattern for downloading software :-)
<mpt> Other than that, I think the visual design of this revision is much better than the previous one
<emmajane> cool.
<emmajane> It would be great to get an illustrator to do actual buttons, but I don't think that's in the current plan.
<mpt> I also agree with poolie that it would look better if the backgrounds were liquid-width, even if the rest of the site isn't
<mpt> The "Take a tour..." and "More about..." links could also do with a little bit of graphic treatment
<mpt> They look a bit lonely at the moment
<emmajane> I explicitly left the button treatment off those. I don't see how a button fits in nicely on that side of the page without it just looking like I went shopping at the button discount store. Suggestions welcome. :)
<emmajane> previous versions had them wrapped in a div with a button class but then I changed my mind. :)
<mpt> Not necessarily a button, maybe just a bullet of some sort
 * emmajane nods
<mpt> â¤ Take a tour
<emmajane> yeah
<emmajane> I was thinking yellow arrow on black shape?
<emmajane> flip the colour scheme but keep the imagery consistent?
<mpt> that could work
<mpt> Have you (or has anyone else) got reliable data on developers' current impressions of Bazaar?
<emmajane> Not me.
<emmajane> I have exposure to "new" people and people who just want Bazaar to work (mainly through the Drupal community).
<emmajane> new people are through the three or four conference presentations I've given and Ubuntu documentation team.
<emmajane> There's definitely the "word on the street" information, but as far as I know there's been no actual/current market research.
<mpt> In my mailed feedback I mentioned including logos of well-known projects/organizations that use Bazaar
<mpt> with reference to the Personas page, that would be for Kris
 * emmajane nods. It was in an earlier design as well.
<mpt> I also mentioned including graphs of performance compared with other VCSes
<mpt> that would be for Randy
<emmajane> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0374/ <--- that's the "latest" summary that compares vcses.
<emmajane> but it's not market research
<mpt> There's a lot this page has to do, I don't envy you this task :-)
<emmajane> heh, thanks. :)
<emmajane> mpt, It's a gateway into more useful mini-homepages.
<mpt> yes
<emmajane> It needs to be just enticing enough to get people through the right door.
<mpt> One maybe-silly possibility that occurs to me is a carousel of the qualities you want to convey, where clicking on each shows you a summary, with a link to those more-useful secondary pages
<emmajane> at least that's what Ikeep telling myself.
<emmajane> the carousel at one point was going to start with the "tag line" which poolie isn't fond of and then go through various screen shots.
<emmajane> it could be made into a more formal "tour" though.
<emmajane> it was always going to be a link through to something else though.
<mpt> Bazaar is:  _Easy to use_  /  _Fast_  /  _Supported_  /  _Extensible_  / _Free_
 * emmajane nods
<mpt> ...
<mpt> You don't mention anywhere on the front page that Bazaar is free!
<emmajane> it's got the GPL stuff, but it's true I don't use the "F" word
<emmajane> the license is now also on the copyright line at the very bottom.
<mpt> I mean free as in zero price
<emmajane> yup
<mpt> as opposed to, say, Perforce
<mpt> or Visual SourceSafe
<emmajane> updated that text and extended the colour strips to the full width.
<newz2000> emmajane: oh, please do use the flying monkeys
<emmajane> newz2000, :)
<emmajane> isn't that the awesomest!??
<newz2000> it's up there, that's for sure
<emmajane> :)
<emmajane> it's been a long afternoon of me cussing because I'm not a graphic designer or an illustrator.
<newz2000> I know that feeling
<newz2000> The bazaar logo was me grabbing a pic of an Iowa street sign and running it through inkscape's vectorizing plugin
<newz2000> kwwii said it looked like a chinaman taking a leak. :-)
 * emmajane chuckles.
<newz2000> I'm loving having the design team because now no one expects me to do art. I love it.
<emmajane> newz2000, at one point I was doing skews on road signs to try and make them straight on intead of "as seen from below"
<emmajane> newz2000, lucky duck. ;P
<newz2000> Despite you're supposed non graphic design / illustration skills, the bazaar site does look good and I'm eager to see it go live.
<newz2000> emmajane: will it be drupal based?
<emmajane> newz2000, thanks :)
<emmajane> newz2000, plain text.
<emmajane> if it were drupal there's no way I'd be doing HTML prototypes.
<newz2000> oh, I always start w/ html
<newz2000> well, i start w/ inkscape, then go to html before doing a theme
<newz2000> but maybe I'm old fashioned
 * emmajane nods.
<emmajane> I'm too lazy to change that much about drupal.
<emmajane> newz2000, any idea if there's a way to center sliding door buttons?
<emmajane> they're floated so they're always going to be at the edge.
 * newz2000 thinks it through
<emmajane> but if you don't know the width of the text you can't force a width on the parent.
<emmajane> even a parent div with won't work because of the float on the button....
<emmajane> (and without the float the buttons go to the full width of the parent element)
<emmajane> *logically* the answer is "no"...but I wasn't sure if there was a hack...
<newz2000> you have a set number of buttons using sliding doors, you want the group of them to be centered?
<emmajane> I want individual buttons to be centered below an image.
<emmajane> so they look like a road sign with text beneath...
<emmajane> y'know the two-part road signs?
<newz2000> gotcha
<newz2000> I've not used sliding doors in that scenario, don't know of anything to help
 * emmajane nods.
<newz2000> maybe if you set the width of your container to be too small
<newz2000> and let your button push it out
 * newz2000 is stabbing in the dark
<emmajane> I just uploaded: lp:~emmajane/+junk/dancingmonkeys
<emmajane> hmmmm. that might work.
 * emmajane tries that.
<emmajane> hm.
<emmajane> that starts the button at the center instead of centering it.
<emmajane> i did: width: 1px; overflow: display;
<newz2000> emmajane: do you have that posted anywhere or is it in your dancingmonkeys branch?
<emmajane> newz2000, it's in the dancing monkeys branch.
<newz2000> emmajane: where can I look?
<emmajane> You should be able to do a bzr checkout of the branch, no?
<emmajane> it's all just static files.
<newz2000> yeah, I've got the branch, looking for the sliding doors stuff
<newz2000> I like the "skip to extended navigation"
<newz2000> I could see that being very useful
<newz2000> good use of the mini sitempa in the footer
<emmajane> thanks :)
<emmajane> the buttons are appalling, but in theory beuno's graphic designer can redraw them for me.
<newz2000> who is Nathan Smith?
<emmajane> erm. not sure, why?
<newz2000> in the source, meta name="author" content="Nathan Smith"
<newz2000> Thought maybe that was an alias of yours. ;-)
<emmajane> oh good grief.
 * emmajane sighs.
<emmajane> the author of 960.gsss?
<newz2000> ah. I'll bet there are many sites out there with this then. :-)
<emmajane> yeah
<newz2000> You did something that is very natural here, but if you think about it, may be a bit ironic or humorous
 * emmajane face palms. I got the *copyright* fixed at least. ;)
<newz2000> before I say it I want you to know you can poke fun at my code any time...
<emmajane> :)
<newz2000> I laughed a little bit because you have an alt tag on the screen shot
<emmajane> oh you're welcome to find flaw with this.
<newz2000> that strikes me as ironic
<emmajane> ?
<newz2000> no, it's a good thing because people may have images turned off even if they can see
<emmajane> ironic?
<newz2000> not ironic, but funny
<emmajane> plus search engines like them and most importantly blind people wnat to know whta they're missing out on.
<emmajane> technically I should hvae a longdesc as well.
<newz2000> true
<emmajane> but I'm lazy :)
<emmajane> ok. I think I might needto find food before I pass out
<emmajane> it's gone 8:30 here.
<newz2000> ok. Have a nice night and weekend.
<emmajane> thanks :)
<emmajane> and thanks for answering all of my inane questions :)
<emmajane> it's much appreciated.
#ubuntu-website 2010-09-13
<stas_> newz2000: if you got updates on banner new addresses, send an email
<newz2000> stas_: I'm chasing now, I think it's going live tomorrow
<newz2000> I will definitely contact you
<stas_> newz2000: oky
<cjohnston> newz2000: ping
<newz2000> hey cjohnston, what's up?
<cjohnston> hey dude
<cjohnston> any chance we can push https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/637532 through?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 637532 in ubuntu-website "Ubuntu Governance has an out of date link (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Triaged]
#ubuntu-website 2010-09-14
<MTecknology> Does ubot4 belong to jpds?
<nhandler> MTecknology: Yes. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots and /whois ubot4
<MTecknology> nhandler: thanks
<MTecknology> nhandler: somebody was telling me ubot4 was a she - I didn't agree - I was right :)
<nhandler> !gender | MTecknology
<ubot4> MTecknology: yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<MTecknology> nhandler: ..?
<MTecknology> nhandler: but that makes no sense :(
<newz2000> MTecknology: hey, around?
<MTecknology> newz2000: nope
<newz2000> ah, too bad :-( tell me when you are
<MTecknology> newz2000: ok, I'm here
<newz2000> woo!
<MTecknology> sup?
<newz2000> Hey, I'm in the same office with the legal people and I can't remember what i'm supposed to ask them for you
<newz2000> Do you remember?
<newz2000> (I made a note to talk to them but I forgot to include what to talk about)
<MTecknology> logo and colors
<newz2000> oh, wait, when i searched for your real name I found the email
<MTecknology> I just want to know that the theme (without trademark enabled) will be OK for anyone in the world to use
<newz2000> ok
<daker> newz2000, did the light-base-theme follows the guidelines ?
<newz2000> daker: do you mean the brand guidelines?
<daker> newz2000, yep
<newz2000> daker: my question to Amanda will answer this once and for all
<newz2000> oh, wait
<newz2000> I might have mis-understood your question
<daker> i mean if the light-base-theme respects what the brand guidelines says
<newz2000> daker: forgive me, I don't know the answer to that
 * newz2000 would have to get his ruler out
<daker> mhall119, you said that you are sure :D
<mhall119> newz2000: it's close enough  that we're not in violation of the trademark rules, correct?
<newz2000> it's the trademark rules I'm gettign clarification on. I think it will be an easy answer and we can know once and for all
<mhall119> ok
<newz2000> for now, keep on developing. It's the deploying / sharing part I just want clarifiation on
<newz2000> ooh, the countdown banners are published, they're almost ready!
<newz2000> it's live: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown
<newz2000> (still gotta update the homepage though, that may not happen until tomorrow because I'm soooo hungry)
<MTecknology> newz2000: they don't have names...
<MTecknology> :'(
<MTecknology> Last tiem we had  Change, Orange, The Lynx, and Simple Image
<MTecknology> now... it's just Option 1,2,3,4
<mhall119> why the heron in Option 4?
<MTecknology> mhall119: The meercat meets all the past icons on the way up
<mhall119> oh, ok
<MTecknology> ok... banners updated on launchpad so the Drupal module should magically pull it all on the next cron run
<stas_> newz2000: looks like fb these days disabled all profile boxes :/
<stas_> i cant see any on my profile
<daker> stas_, yes
<daker> it was announced
<daker> and it's not disabled but removed
<stas_> yeah, and the action was taken recently, we thought we'll get through with this release too :)
<daker> cool
<newz2000> ah, too bad
 * newz2000 is in a hotel and has very poor inet connection
<newz2000> if I don't touch my computer wifi strength goes up
<stas_> newz2000: so i updated the fb app, but it will only allow you to get the code for banners for a webpage
<stas_> http://apps.facebook.com/ubuntu-countdown-fb/
 * stas_ some updates are still rolling out though
#ubuntu-website 2010-09-16
<MTecknology> I'm definitely no longer against tabled layouts
<MTecknology> They make the web look right.. (when used right)
<MTecknology> So far that's the only non-broken design I've come across
<newz2000> MTecknology: with just a little practice you can do the exact same thing without using tables and because it's css based the content is more versatile
<Daviey> Mez, Did you look at mhall119's branch? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fixes-638154/+merge/35427
<mhall119> Daviey: can we at least have dates and a description for natty on summit.u.c?
<Daviey> mhall119, Planning a rollout ASAP... Do you mean in code, or in database description?
<mhall119> in the database
<MTecknology> newz2000: maybe, but I've noticed issues all over, facbook has that issue too
<MTecknology> I honestly have no clue how to deal with it - and apparently many other big names don't either.
<MTecknology> If I could find a similar theme that worked- I could try to steal it.
<Mez> Daviey: yes, I'd written a comment on there ?
#ubuntu-website 2010-09-18
<dylan-m> Hey, quick note: the countdown banner doesn't update its last-modified header, so lots of browsers just keep it in cache and never update it
#ubuntu-website 2010-09-19
<daker> hey newz2000
<daker> can you tell me *again* the name of the person who maintains start.ubuntu.com ?
<daker> newz2000, oki i found it
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-12
<daker> mhall119, do you know why this http://pastebin.com/iN59biEq returns MultipleObjectsReturned ?
<mhall119> daker: duplicate event titles with the same user attending both
<mhall119> this is very likely to happen with events like "Ubuntu Hour"
<daker> mhall119, how did you fix it ?
<mhall119> what are you trying to accomplish?
<daker> well i am trying to use get_or_create, if there is an event it's ok if not create one
<daker> event, created = Event.objects.get_or_create(title=title, attendees__name__in=users)
<mhall119> you'll need to give enough fields to uniquely identify a record
<mhall119> if title isn't a unique field, you'll need something else
<mhall119> you can look at loco_directory/common/management/commands/recoverdata.py to see how I was doing it for the recovery script
<daker> ok
<mhall119> if you might have more than one match, then you should to an if not Event.objects.filter(foo=bar).exists():
<mhall119> and then create one
<daker> the problem is that the sql query return two rows
<mhall119> right, and .get and .get_or_create will throw an error if it matches more than one
<daker> it returns two rows because of attendees__name__in=users
<mhall119> hang on, is it returning 2 copies of the same Event recort?
<mhall119> record
<mhall119> or 2 different Event records?
<daker> 2 records of the same event
<mhall119> oh, ok.....
<daker> imagine you an event and daker & mhall119 are attending and
<daker> users = [u'daker', u'mhal119']
<daker> event, created = Event.objects.get(title=title, attendees__name__in=users)
<daker> this will gives two records of the same events
<daker> -s
<mhall119> ok, then I'm not sure how to fix that
<mhall119> probably the ManyToMany relationship is making that do unexpected things
<daker> yeah
<mhall119> so then you might need to do the filter().exists() check first, and if nothing matches then to an .objects.create()
<daker> ok
<mhall119> nigelb: ping
<nigelb> pong
<mhall119> nigelb: I added another test case to https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/scheduling-testcase/+merge/73926
<mhall119> this one checks that we're not mixing private/public rooms and meetings
<nigelb> man, I wish you pinged this to mee when I wasn't sleepy.
<mhall119> it's currently failing, because we haven't made the autoscheduler aware of private rooms yet
<mhall119> you're always sleepy :P
<nigelb> its 0030. I should be sleeping.
<nigelb> But I'm a sysadmin.
<mhall119> boo
<mhall119> just mark it approved so it'll land, it's only test cases
<mhall119> as long as your signature is on it, I'm happy
<nigelb> mhall119: I'd like to run the tests to make sure they pass before I approve.
<nigelb> oh wait.
<mhall119> I just said they don't pass
<nigelb> it fails.
<nigelb> boo.
<mhall119> the MP is only to add test cases, not new functionality
<nigelb> go
<nigelb> done
<mhall119> haha, sucker
<mhall119> I mean, thanks nigelb
<nigelb> lol
<mhall119> nigelb or cjohnston: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-etherpad-edit-links/+merge/75061
<mhall119> that fixed the annoying reverse lookup errors we'd had
<mhall119> cjohnston: we need the private scheduling test cases passing before we can deploy what's in trunk
<mhall119> I'll probably add more to them too
<james_w> that's not idea
<james_w> l
<james_w> can I help in making trunk deployable again?
<james_w> I'm being asked for changes that we would want deployed quickly, and so having that blocked isn't good for us
<mhall119> james_w: we just need to update the autoschedule/reschedule code to be aware of private rooms and not try to schedule public meetings into them
<james_w> private is a flag?
<mhall119> for uds-p, I'd be okay if we just plain didn't auto-schedule private meetings or private rooms
<james_w> it's not a type like "openly scheduled"?
<mhall119> type='private'
<mhall119> meetings have a private=True field
<nigelb> mhall119: that's like a one-line changing?
<mhall119> but rooms use a type
<mhall119> nigelb: possibly
<nigelb> *change
<mhall119> I just wrote the tests for it
<mhall119> you're more familiar with the scheduler itself
<james_w> I'll take a look
<mhall119> TDD
<nigelb> Is the code that got chcked in that UDS?
<nigelb> Or was that rescheduler? :P
<mhall119> that was reschedule
<james_w> I don't see a test failure on trunk?
<mhall119> it's not in trunk yet
<mhall119> wait, yes it is
<mhall119> you're not seeing a failure?
<james_w> nope
<nigelb> lol.
<nigelb> WIN.
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> james_w: how are you running the tests?
<james_w>     def try_schedule(self):
<james_w>         """Try to schedule this meeting in a suitable room."""
<james_w>         open_rooms = self.summit.room_set.filter(type__exact='open')
<james_w> ./manage.py test
<james_w> so autoschedule already skips private rooms
<james_w> it does look like it will happily schedule private sessions in to public rooms though
<mhall119> yeah
<james_w> and I'm not really sure what reschedule should do
<james_w> given that you can only schedule private rooms manually it should never delete an agenda item for one, so I think we're fine there too
<mhall119> oh, my tests are wrong
<mhall119> nigelb: I can't believe you approved bad tests
<nigelb> mhall119: under threat and duress
<mhall119> a likely excuse
<mhall119> james_w: can you merge in lp:~mhall119/summit/fixes-to-private-scheduling-tests and see if you get failing tests
<mhall119> I'm still getting one test that fails, looks like a private meeting is being autoscheduled into an open room
<james_w> still no failure
<mhall119> are you running in a virtualenv?
<james_w> no
<mhall119> maybe that's the difference....but they should still fail
<mhall119> well, the one should
<james_w> seems it's not running these tests?
<mhall119> try python manage.py test schedule.PrivateSchedulingTestCase
<james_w> ValueError: Test label 'schedule.PrivateSchedulingTestCase' does not refer to a test
<mhall119> well....that's interesting
<mhall119> so you see that in summit/schedule/tests.py ?
<james_w> hmm, looks like it may be a missing dependency
<james_w> model_mommy
<mhall119> yeah, surprised that didn't throw an error for you though
<james_w> again django's test infrastructure leaves a lot to be desired
<james_w> model_mommy doesn't seem to be packaged?
<mhall119> you can install it with pip
<mhall119> best to setup a virtualenv
<mhall119> then pip install -r requirements.txt from within that
<james_w> getting errors installing the requirements in a virtualenv
<mhall119> :/
<mhall119> on what?
<james_w> first BeautifulSoup
<james_w> which I just deleted from the file
<mhall119> I don't think we need that anymore
<james_w> no psycopg2
<mhall119> no?
<james_w> warning: manifest_maker: standard file '-c' not found
<james_w> error: No such file or directory
<james_w> now, sorry
<mhall119> oh, I think that needs dev headers installed system-wide
<nigelb> do you have python-dev?
<nigelb> (gah, to slow :P)
<nigelb> *too
<mhall119> james_w: I think you need libpq-dev
<mhall119> do compile the postgres driver for the virtualenv
<james_w> pq or pg?
<mhall119> pq
<mhall119> weird, I know
<james_w> ok
<james_w> I have to leave now
<mhall119> ok
<james_w> I'll continue with this tomorrow
<james_w> thanks for the help
<nigelb> james_w: thank you for stopping by :)
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-13
<daker> nigelb, mhall119, cjohnston http://www.micahcarrick.com/gedit-as-a-django-ide-for-linux.html
<YoBoY> thanks daker :D
<daker> yw ã
<mhall119> daker: cool, thanks
<nigelb> james_w: HA, code deletion bug. My favorite type :)
<james_w> :-)
<james_w> someone added code to summit to delete meetings when the blueprints are deleted?
<james_w> hmm, no, that's always been there
<james_w> why is it breaking now?
<nigelb> Because summit is awesome.
<nigelb> :)
<james_w> actually looks like it may be something to do with caching
<mhall119> james_w: corrupt launchpadlib cache?
<james_w> seems that requesting +temp-meeting-export doesn't always give you the same thing
<james_w> so it's creating meetings one run
<mhall119> james_w: were you ever able to get my new unit tests failing properly?
<james_w> then deleting them the next run
<james_w> mhall119, haven't tried yet, sorry
<nigelb> Oh god.
<nigelb> Why launchpad why.
<mhall119> james_w: was the delete cron being run regularly?
<nigelb> Is that launchpad caching? Maybe we're hitting multiple app servers
<mhall119> could be, but if that's the issues then there's a bug in LP
<nigelb> Well, to be fair on LP +temp-meeting-export is fairly heavy on the DB.
<mhall119> james_w: have you tested http://ec2-50-16-76-22.compute-1.amazonaws.com/
<mhall119> nigelb: yeah, but it should be consistent
<nigelb> agreed.
<james_w> nigelb, mhall119: https://bugs.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/849331
<james_w> that's the cause and fix for the cache issue
<james_w> we're going to want a deploy to fix that quickly
<james_w> so if I were to say I was going to do that tonight, how scared would you be?
<nigelb> as long as its checked in, minimal :)
<james_w> oh, of course :-)
<james_w> just wondered if you were scared about having the code in trunk in production
<james_w> I know I need to to fix the autoscheduler for private rooms first
<james_w> private sessions I mean
<nigelb> james_w: you can just merge to the stable branch
<james_w> though the autoscheduler isn't yet running
<james_w> oh, cool!
<nigelb> which is probably more stable.
<james_w> what a great idea!
<james_w> that makes my life easier, thanks :-)
<nigelb> heh
<nigelb> mhall119, cjohnston - tarmac set for stable branch as well. Should run.
<nigelb> (summit)
<mhall119> nigelb: great, but I'll be killing 1.x as soon as trunk is ready to be merged into production
<nigelb> mhall119: Dont'
<nigelb> I'm sure situations like these will pop up
<mhall119> james_w: explain that one to me?
<mhall119> wouldn't we get the same thing if we're hitting the cache, rather than different things?
<mhall119> james_w: yeah, check this into 1.x series
<mhall119> and it'll be easy to merge it into production and deploy
<james_w> mhall119, there are two caches
<james_w> and so it's 50% chance of getting each
<james_w> yay, failing tests!
<james_w> plus ViewDoesNotExist: Could not import summit.sponsor.views. Error was: No module named restfulclient.errors
<james_w> which is likely a version mismatch
<james_w> yep, that's fixed too
<james_w> NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'summit.schedule.decorators.inner' with arguments '('',)' and keyword arguments '{}' not found.
<james_w> getting that on two tests
<mhall119> james_w: yeah, that's fixed in another MP
<mhall119> in trunk
<james_w> cool
<mhall119> is the private scheduling one failing properly now?
 * james_w pulls
<james_w> yeah, looks like it
<mhall119> cool
<james_w> just getting down to a "clean" test run first
<james_w> mhall119, https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-etherpad-edit-links/+merge/75061 that one?
<mhall119> yeah
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> FAIL: test_no_available_private_room (summit.schedule.tests.PrivateSchedulingTestCase)
<james_w> \o/
<mhall119> yay
<mhall119> now this one is tricky, because we want to let the admins schedule a private meeting in a public room if necessary, but we don't want the auto-scheduler doing it
<james_w> I don't know
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/688601/
<james_w> passes tests
<james_w> there's only one callsite - the autoscheduler
<mhall119> that'll work
<mhall119> we can look at adding the ability to auto-schedule private meetings into private rooms another time
<mhall119> make an MP and I'll approve it
<mhall119> target this  one to trunk though
<james_w> yep
<mars> mhall119, nigelb, I made a graph of the summit website model object structure, thought you may find it useful: http://people.canonical.com/~mars/summit-models.png
<mhall119> mars: did you use the django-extensions for that?
<nigelb> mars: Neat!
<mars> mhall119, yep.  Pretty cool.  I find pictures really helpful for exploring and discovery
<mhall119> mars: yeah
<mars> mhall119, nigelb, if you like it, feel free to pass it on to the other devs
<mhall119> I did that graphing thing for a project at my last job.....it was bad
<james_w> hey mars
<mars> Hey james_w
<mars> james_w, how's the weather up by Owen Sound?  Fall colours out yet?
<nigelb> mhall119: badly designed models?
<mhall119> nigelb: yeah, and lots of them
<nigelb> heh
<james_w> mars, not quite
<mars> james_w, your team may find this useful as well: http://people.canonical.com/~mars/summit-models.png
<james_w> yeah, thanks mars
<james_w> very useful when you are getting to know a project
<mars> yeah
<mars> This explains why model_mommy was helpful for building things
<mhall119> james_w: were you going to make a change to the stable branch today?
<james_w> mhall119, I want to
<mhall119> what's stopping you?
<james_w> time
<mars> heh
<james_w> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/dont-autoschedule-private/+merge/75256
<mhall119> ok, I'll check it
<james_w> is it lp:summit/stable ?
<james_w> I can't load the code page to get the list unfortunately
<mhall119> lp:summit/1.x
<james_w> oh, I know
<mhall119> oh wait, yes, it is stable now
<mhall119> forgot we changed the series name
<james_w> cool, thanks
<james_w> going to work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/849331 next
<james_w> I'd like to deploy https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/linaro-link-fix/+merge/74877 soon too, but that one isn't breaking anything
<james_w> after that then I want to look at importing from multiple Launchpad sprints for a single summit
<mhall119> james_w: that was was targetting trunk wasn't it?
<mhall119> trunk has several menu changes
<nigelb> Definitely need to remove the "summit" hilight.
<nigelb> james_w just pinged me with everyline.
<james_w> the link fix? yeah
<james_w> heh
<james_w> summit
<james_w> summit
<james_w> summit
<james_w> I love summit!
<nigelb> oh god
<mhall119> james_w: with your fix to the autoscheduler, I think trunk is ready to be merged into /production
<james_w> ooh
<james_w> exciting
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> james_w: I'll get you lp import fix landed in stable and pushed to production, then we'll work on getting trunk into production
<james_w> ok
<mhall119> nigelb: what's taking tarmac so long?
<nigelb> when did you approve the MP?
<mhall119> there's 3 of them
<mhall119> maybe they don't have commit messages
 * nigelb looks
<nigelb> ah, right.
<nigelb> james_w: heh, so for all the bugs cjohnston and mhall119 fixed, you buy them a drink per bug :P
<nigelb> mhall119: Overall status is Needs review
<james_w> deal
<mhall119> nigelb: I thought an approved review message was enough for tarmac
<nigelb> No
<mhall119> ok
<nigelb> neither it is for PQM.
<nigelb> I'm fairly sure there's lots of inspiration from PQM for tarmac.
<nigelb> so I'd expect similar behavior.
<mhall119> nigelb: do they still need commit messages too?
<cjohnston> yes
<mhall119> well, look who decided to show up
<cjohnston> hush
<cjohnston> id love to have 5 minutes to work on something
<nigelb> mhall119: he heard about the drink per bug deal :P
<cjohnston> let alone take a breath
<cjohnston> But.. I was filing RTs today from class.. so SHUT UP!
<cjohnston> :-P
<nigelb> mhall119: let me know when you've fixed all the MPs
<mhall119> cjohnston: speaking of, was that resolved?
<nigelb> I'll run tarmac manually for ya
<mhall119> I pinged Ng in -sysadmin
<cjohnston> mhall119: yes.. ty
<mhall119> nigelb: ready
<mhall119> cjohnston: cool
 * nigelb runs
<cjohnston> mhall119: has the % thingie been fixed
<cjohnston> mhall119: james_w nigelb I believe we still need to make the conflict resolver NOT resolve private meetings, but move public meetings according to private meeting schedule
<cjohnston> mhall119: did we ever try to get the cranberry memory error RT moved up?
<nigelb> Try - yes. Actually get it done - No.
<james_w> cjohnston, the conflict resolver will not move a private meeting as far as I can see
<nigelb> mhall119: Done.
<cjohnston> james_w: what about move public meetings if there is a reqired participant scheduled in a private meeting/
<james_w> cjohnston, also, hi :-)
<cjohnston> hey bud
<james_w> cjohnston, I think it will do that, but I would need to look to be sure
<cjohnston> wanna fix some status bugs while your at it? ;-)
<nigelb> lol
<cjohnston> nigelb: any chance you can do a quick fix to https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/summit/668528-last-refresh/+merge/63448
<cjohnston> jussi: who was it we needed to bug about getting the bug bot back?
<nigelb> cjohnston: I bugged already.
<nigelb> cjohnston: Not ATM. Working.
<cjohnston> bugged about what
<nigelb> the bot.
<mhall119> cjohnston: I tried on that RT, jcastro said he doesn't have authority, and jono didn't respond
<cjohnston> ok
<mhall119> bbl, kids' karate
<james_w> gah, can't register the merge now
<james_w> well, the fix is in https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/cache-control/
<james_w> doesn't seem like I'm going to be able to request a merge against stable
<james_w> so either someone will have to bypass tarmac for me
<james_w> or we can merge to trunk and go with deploying the whole thing
<nigelb> james_w: launchpad hates you.
<nigelb> I just proposed a merge
<james_w> yes
<james_w> it's doing it to a non-default branch that breaks it I think
<nigelb> I did it against stable
<nigelb> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/cache-control/+merge/75265
<james_w> well, ok
<james_w> thanks :-)
<nigelb> I think launchpad has inbuilt burn out prevention :P
<james_w> what did you put in the box?
<nigelb> Nothing :p
<nigelb> description?
<james_w> no, the target box
<nigelb> I clicked stable
<james_w> ok
<james_w> I didn't have that as an option
<nigelb> did you do it differently? AH.
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> well, we clearly don't want that print in there
 * james_w fixes
<james_w> argh, I can't get a migration going for a new model
<james_w> I just want the new table so I can test that it works at all!
<james_w> and what do you know, complaining made me stumble on the answer
<james_w> missing Meta
<nigelb> that is so Meta :P
<james_w> wahey, found another regression
<nigelb> james_w: in cache?
<nigelb> I just approved that one.
<james_w> nope
<james_w> in importing
<nigelb> Ah.
<james_w> it now crashes if there is a "." in the meeting name
<nigelb> I thought I fixed that.
 * nigelb clearly remembes fixing that.
<james_w> you mean that you broke it? :-)
<james_w> it was a side effect of your fix
<nigelb> Argh ;(
<nigelb> :(
<james_w> confused me for a few minutes as I couldn't see how I had caused that error
<nigelb> let me guess, the reverse lookup doesn't work
<james_w> easy to fix though, not a problem
<nigelb> phew
<james_w> nope, in this case it crashes immediately on importint
<nigelb> sigh.
<james_w> as you changed one place where it uses the name from launchpad, but not the other
<nigelb> ahhh!
<james_w> so it can't find the thing that it just put in the database
<nigelb> Right!
<nigelb> Needs test cases.
<nigelb> we should be able to Mock Launchpad.
<james_w> well, it just needs some xml
<nigelb> Hrm. That's right.
<james_w> yay, my change works
<nigelb> \m/
<mhall119> we need to figure out how to allow . in the url.py regex
<james_w> why's that?
<mhall119> that's the reason we've been going around replacing . with _ or - everywhere, because it breaks the reverse url lookups
<james_w> well, this is replacing it in the same place :-)
<james_w> but if there are still remaining places then that would be good
<james_w> though we should do it soon, otherwise it will cause dataloss
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-14
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/688727/
<james_w> it's working
<james_w> I just need to add the tests for the multiple-sprint bit, and the fallback, with some mocking
<james_w> but first I must eat
<mhall119> james_w: nigelb: I've got a fix for periods in url lookups, complete with testcase
<james_w> yay
<nigelb>  \o/
<mhall119> where are we currently converting . to - ?
<nigelb> On that note, I should sleep.
<mhall119> james_w: nigelb: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-period-in-url/+merge/75284
<james_w> mhall119, nice, thanks.
<james_w> Approved
<mhall119> james_w: nigelb: cjohnston: http://ec2-50-16-76-22.compute-1.amazonaws.com/uds-p/ has been updated to the latest trunk
<james_w> deployed the cache fixes to production (via the production branch)
<james_w> so that we don't get hit by any dataloss from that
<mhall119> james_w: can you make sure that goes into /stable and trunk too please?
<james_w> it went to stable
<mhall119> ok, I'll merge stable to trunk
<james_w> you would like me to merge stable to trunk too?
<james_w> ok, thanks
<mhall119> done
<mhall119> lpupdate is only pulling in 2 linaro sessions, is that all there is?
<mhall119> meeting linaro-summits-server
<mhall119> meeting linaro-summits-stb
<james_w> that's all there is so far
<james_w> we're blocked on the LP side currently, being able to approve the blueprints for UDS
<jawud> ping newz2000, are you there?
<newz2000> jawud: yes
<jawud> On the following lijnk is an idea for ubuntu donations. It;s a Dutch forum but the proposal is English. Can you give me some feedback about the proposal and tell me your opinion?
<jawud> http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/voorstel-voor-ubuntu-donaties/
<jawud> no hurry, I understand when you're bussy
<mhall119> nigelb: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/777171-percentage-problem-tests/+merge/75360
<mhall119> nigelb: your branch was so out of date I was having trouble getting these tests into it, which is why it's proposed to trunk instead
<newz2000> jawud: I would suggest proposing this to Jorge Castro, aka jcastro. Do you know of him?
<jawud> I've heard of him. Thanks, I will contact him.
<jawud> what do you personally think of it?
<newz2000> jawud: I think it's interesting. I fully support ways to help non-coders make a meaningful contribution.
<jawud> oke thanks!
<nigelb> mhall119: Yeah, I did it just after UDS :-)
<mhall119> nigelb: I know, not complaining, just telling you why I targetting trunk
<nigelb> mhall119: NP :)
<nigelb> I'm officially sick and been asked to rest for 2 days.
<mhall119> but you have a laptop right
<mhall119> j/k, take the time to get better
<nigelb> Heh. I think I want to sleep and get up on time for achacne
<nigelb> *change
<sheytan> Hey guys
<sheytan> is there a simple way to get the ubuntu website theme make of it one for kubuntu (graphics) and put text and stuff kubuntu related?
<james_w> does tarmac not run the tests for summit?
<mhall119> sheytan: sure, you can branch one of the light-*-theme branches and convert it to kubuntu
<mhall119> james_w: I don't think so, no
<sheytan> mhall119: where do i get them? :)
<mhall119> sheytan: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-community-webthemes
<mhall119> james_w: did you want to get the linaro customizations working on my ec2 box for testing?
<james_w> mhall119, I'm just working on generic stuff currently, but that would be a good idea
<james_w> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/fix-period-tests/+merge/75411 makes all the tests work on trunk again for me
<mhall119> james_w: that's already done in https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/777171-percentage-problem-tests/+merge/75360
<james_w> ah, ok then
<mhall119> james_w: why not land that MP?
<james_w> mhall119, I assumed that tarmac wouldn't as the tests would fail
<mhall119> ah, ok
<james_w> also I like a clean testsuite
<mhall119> as far as I know tarmac isn't running tests
<mhall119> I like a clean testsuite too, but only when it means things aren't broken
<james_w> but with those two changes tied together we won't have one either way :-)
<james_w> Thanks,
<james_w> oops
<james_w> yeah, but you are always going to have bugs
<james_w> and they don't show up as test failures without writing a test
<mhall119> true, but we know there are bugs in trunk right now
<mhall119> these test cases just highlight that
<james_w> flicked the switch so that it will land now
<james_w> well, I could have told you there were bugs in trunk :-)
<mhall119> I'll try and update nigel's branch to where it A) passes these tests and B) can be merged into trunk
<james_w> I can do that now
<mhall119> james_w: if you know of other bugs,  write a test case for them
<james_w> I've just finished https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/multiple-sprints/+merge/75413
<mhall119> if you have time, that'd be great
<mhall119>  the problem with nigel's code is that he's calling escape_strings() on things that don't need escaping
<james_w> ah, that one
<mhall119> I have a fairly good idea of what needs doing on that, if you'd rather wait until I can get to id
<james_w> I'll take a look, but may defer
<james_w> having tests is useful for this :-)
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> up to 26 tests now
<mhall119> much better than the 0 we had last cycle
<james_w> hahaha
<james_w> this is broken
<james_w> I'm not sure where the url escaping should go
<james_w> I don't think that django supports % in urls
<james_w> well, it might be able to serve those urls
<james_w> but it appears you can't put a link to one in a page
<mhall119> why not?
<james_w> well, I'm a bit hampered in debugging as the exception when serving the page in the test is resulting in traceback page served with a 200 response code!
<james_w> ah, no
<james_w> something catches tracebacks when rendering a meeting div?
<mhall119> it's probably because of settings.DEBUG=True
<mhall119> are you talking about the % escaping tests?
<james_w> I'm looking at test_percent_in_meeting_name currently
<james_w> why does it need to do that
<james_w> why not do that substitution when the %(style)s is added to the html?
<mhall119> because it puts the content of html in cache, but evidently the styles may change before the cache becomes invalid
<mhall119> so this lets it pull the html out of cache and then apply the style
<james_w> ah
<james_w> these tests seem non-deterministic
<james_w> I guess non-specified fields get filled with random data by model_mommy?
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> there is one non-deterministic test, but the others should be
<james_w> one that is fixed is non-deterministically failing due to not all of them being fixed
<mhall119> which?
<mhall119> the test methods should all be isolated from eachother
<james_w> it's because of the errors
<james_w> so you fix one, and depending on whether or not a % appears somewhere else the test passes or fails
<james_w> depending on whether the page gets a traceback or the div in ti
<james_w> it
<mhall119> it sounds like there's some scenario my tests don't cover then
<mhall119> which also happens to not be escaped properly
<james_w> yep, I'm adding some more tests now
<mhall119> <Christopher Walken>I gotta have more test case</Christopher Walken>
<james_w> is there a reason these tests aren't calling meeting_div directly?
<mhall119> mostly because I wanted to check the entire page's output
<mhall119> also, to call meeting_div you need to build the Schedule object and initialized it properly
<mhall119> it was just easier to call the URL and check the final results
<james_w> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/777171-percentage-problem/+merge/75429
<mhall119> thanks james_w, I'll check it out this evening
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-15
<AlanBell> is there a way in the LoCo directory to see all the events you are registered to attend?
<AlanBell> perhaps a personalised ical feed?
<nigelb> Fairly sure there isn't a personalized ical feed.
<AlanBell> so am I. Would be cool though
<mhall119> AlanBell: file a bug
<mhall119> write a patch if you can
<nigelb> RSS would be complicated
<nigelb> But having a profile page would be awesome.
<AlanBell> yeah, will file a bug
<AlanBell> are there any recent patches with test scripts to look at?
<AlanBell> I couldn't work out how to do a meaningful test for https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/loco-directory/backbutton/+merge/73526
<AlanBell> who should bug 773243 be assigned to?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 773243 in ubuntu-website "Ubuntu website advertises "Fully compatible with Microsoft Office" (affects: 4) (heat: 18)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/773243
<nigelb> AlanBell: summit should have good tests
<james_w> mhall119, https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/awstrial/remove-maverick-text/+merge/75572
<mhall119> james_w: I was actually joking about you doing awstrial work, that's in ISD's hands now
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I was hoping it would still work though :-)
<mhall119> I'll take it, don't get me wrong, it's less work for me
<mhall119> james_w: I got an error running your multi-sprint tests
<james_w> oh
<james_w> pastebin and I'll fix it
<mhall119> it's in the MP
<mhall119> looks like maybe you're using a newer version of Django?
<mhall119> it can't find assertIs
<james_w> ah
<james_w> assertEqual will suffice
<james_w> mhall119, fixed
<james_w> also argle, non-deterministic behaviour to try and write a test for
<james_w> well, I'll just fix the code and keep the test I think
<james_w> this is some private meeting fixes I'm working on, not the multi sprint branch
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> james_w: my only concern about the multi-sprint is that once you add a Sprint record, you lose the default which uses the summit name
<mhall119> this may cause confusion
<james_w> hmm
<mhall119> we'll just have to make sure people know about it
<james_w> ok
<mhall119> so right now we'll have uds-p spring
<mhall119> sprint
<james_w> I would have put some text on the admin page, but I wasn't sure how
<mhall119> and if Marianna adds the Linaro sprint, suddenly it won't check the uds-p sprint anymore
<mhall119> I think just making them aware will suffice for this cycle, but we might want to discuss how to keep it consistent going forward
<mhall119> either dropping the use of a default, or adding the default as a sprint on initial save of a Summit object
<james_w> ah, that's a good idea
<james_w> I'll set this one up, so it won't be a problem unless anyone changes them
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> awesome test case for it though
<mhall119> james_w: both your branches have landed in trunk, I also updated http://ec2-50-16-76-22.compute-1.amazonaws.com/ to the latest trunk  and migrated the DB
<mhall119> james_w: you can test importing multiple sprints on there if you have one for linaro ready to go
<james_w> woop
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> I don't, but now that I know this is approved I will create one for testing
<mhall119> I just ran lpupdate on there with the default sprint
<james_w> hmm, it will happily import from staging, I'll try that
<mhall119> man, having this ec2 running trunk sure is nice
<james_w> yep
<mhall119> cjohnston: nigelb: james_w: summit now has 43 unit tests, and they're all passing \o/
<james_w> yay
<nigelb> You guys are awesome :)
<nigelb> I propose a hacking session every UDS.
<mhall119> *after* or *before* every UDS
<nigelb> *at*
<mhall119> ok, but no deployments
<nigelb> Yeah
<nigelb> This puts all the stakeholders + people who can fix into one place.
<mhall119> well we've had sesssions at the last 2 UDSs
<james_w> this seems to be working ok
<nigelb> Yeah :)
<james_w> it fails to import blueprints from staging, as it's hardcoded to production
<james_w> but it imported users fine
<james_w> so I think we're good to deploy this
<nigelb> Hrm, we should take it out into a config
<james_w> any objection to a deployment on trunk to summit.ubuntu.com?
<mhall119> not from me, but it's going to require some extra work this time because we re-set the South history
<james_w> ah
<mhall119> so we'll need to ./manage.py reset south
<james_w> I can do it, but some clues about that would be appreciated
<mhall119> the ./manage.py migrate schedule 0001 --fake
<mhall119> and ./manage.py migrate sponsor 0001 --fake
<mhall119> then ./manage.py migrate
<james_w> ok
<james_w> should I merge trunk to stable and production branches first?
<mhall119> not to stable, once trunk merges to production we're going to be done with stable
<james_w> ahÂ¸ok
<james_w> I'll get some lunch and tackle this
<mhall119> ok, when do you want to try for a production deployment?
<mhall119> we need to let jcastro know to expect it
<nigelb> mhall119: why do you want to get rid of stable? :(
<mhall119> nigelb: because once trunk merges to production, trunk will be our new stable
<nigelb> But what if want to make unstable fixes and stable fixes?
<mhall119> so we'll go back to only 2 branches, trunk and production
<nigelb> Like james_w did have to do a bit back.
<mhall119> you make unstable fixes in feature branches from now on, and propose them back into trunk
<nigelb> ah, ok.
<nigelb> Nothing undeployable goes into trunk.
<nigelb> Makes sense.
<james_w> let's say 1:15 from now
<mhall119> james_w: wow, that soon? ok
<mhall119> james_w: do you know how to make a proper backup of postgres?
<james_w> is there a reason to wait?
<mhall119> not that I know of
<mhall119> except letting people know it's going to happen
<mhall119> and backing up the db prior
<james_w> yeah, I'll see about the db backup
<nigelb> mhall119: pg_dump
<james_w> downtime should be short, and I don't think anyone is using it much right now
<mhall119> nigelb: yeah, but what parameters do we want?
<mhall119> james_w: I'm checking with jorge on that
<nigelb> database name?
<nigelb> and I'd guess username and password.
<james_w> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/fix-autoscheduling-conflict-with-private/+merge/75594 was the problem I was fighting with earlier
<nigelb> mhall119: "pg_dump summit" should work.
<nigelb> unless it fails for authentication
<nigelb> you can get credentials from settings.py anyway.
<mhall119> james_w: can't we compare user records by their primary key?
<mhall119> also, why did you remove local_settings.py.sample?
<james_w> mhall119, that wasn't intentional, I must have used mv rather than cp
<james_w> mhall119, compare by primary key, you mean implement __eq__ for Attendees?
<mhall119> james_w: no, I mean using attendee.pk instead of attendee.name
<james_w> ah
<james_w> that should work
<mhall119> james_w: I've got to pick up the kids from school in a few minutes, so just ping me before you deploy to make sure i'm around
<james_w> ok
<mhall119> you can go ahead and merge trunk->production if you want though
<james_w> I'll hang back to start anything in production
<james_w> ok
<mhall119> james_w: once this goes out, let's talk about how to fix the caching (or at least providing a means of force-clearing it)
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> I was thinking about that in the shower this morning
<james_w> I've made the .pk change and re-instated local_settings in the autoscheduler branch
<james_w> and pushed up a small js branch for a bug I found while testing private meetings
<mhall119> cool, I'll review later, it can go out after this deployment
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> they are important fixes, but don't block deployment
<james_w> and once we've done this one we should be able to do frequent deployments of well-tested changes :-)
<mhall119> I'm thinking, about the cache, that we make a signal that gets fired whenever some code changes the schedule
<james_w> and invalidate everything?
<mhall119> that way we can start with a specific URL that you can hit to fire the signal, but also start adding it into the places where it needs to be and eventually not need the URL
<mhall119> james_w: that's what we should discuss
<james_w> ok
<mhall119> ok, leaving now, bbl
<james_w> let's do so later
<james_w> bye
<mhall119> james_w: okay, I'm back
<james_w> cool
<james_w> just did the merge to production
<nigelb> james_w: I <3'd your RT.
<nigelb> "summit is such a fuster cluck"
<james_w> pg_dump done
<james_w> new code in place
<mhall119> did you touch the .wsgi files?
<james_w> not yet
<james_w> I'm thinking that should happen after the migrate commands
<mhall119> ah, right
<james_w> starting those now based on your instructions
<james_w> You have requested a database reset.
<mhall119> did you just do the --fake migrations?
<james_w> This will IRREVERSIBLY DESTROY any data for
<james_w> the "south" application in the database "summit".
<james_w> Are you sure you want to do this?
<james_w> Type 'yes' to continue, or 'no' to cancel:
<james_w> reset first right?
<mhall119> yes
<mhall119> we have a backup anyway, right?
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> migrations done
<james_w> touching wsgi files
<james_w> crossing fingers
<james_w> looks good to me
<mhall119> looks good to me too
<james_w> anyone see any problems?
<james_w> we have the new code as well :-)
<nigelb> Hrm, today link is falling off the top menu :(
<james_w> not for me
<nigelb> what browser?
<mhall119> nigelb: no it's not
<james_w> firefox
<mhall119> nigelb: I get "There are no sessions scheduled for today."
<mhall119> what do you get?
<nigelb> mhall119: No, I meant its not staying in the top menu
<mhall119> also, are you going to /today ot /uds-p/today ?
<nigelb> but dropped down
<mhall119> hmmm, not for me
<mhall119> nigelb: what URL are you seeing this on?
<nigelb> summit.ubuntu.com
<mhall119> nigelb: try ctrl+refresh? maybe you have old theme dadta
<nigelb> mhall119: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nigelbabu/today.png
<mhall119> or maybe your font settings are causing it?
<nigelb> maybe because I don't have Ubuntu font.
<nigelb> Right.
<cjohnston> whats up with microblogging?
<cjohnston> are all of those curacao rooms for hacking?
<mhall119> cjohnston: the Hackfest is from a track being assigned to the room
<mhall119> I'm not sure what's up with twidenash
<cjohnston> Right.. I know that... I assume that those rooms are only for the hackfest tho?
<james_w> cjohnston, they are Linaro rooms, assigned to teams to use for hacking
<james_w> as Linaro isn't planning to schedule a full roster of sessions, but spend some time hacking as well
<james_w> mornings for discussion, afternoons for hacking
<james_w> mhall119, let me know when you want to discuss caching
<cjohnston> gotcha
<mhall119> james_w: should those be private rooms then, so that public meetings aren't auto-scheduled into them?
<james_w> hmm
<james_w> double hmm
<james_w> probably shouldn't be openly scheduled
<cjohnston> We don't have a way of displaying the private rooms yet
<james_w> maybe they should be private, I'm not sure
<james_w> I'll have a look
<cjohnston> What does marking a room closed do?
<mhall119> james_w: can you either give g+w ./summit/media/js or run: bzr branch bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~django-foundations-dev/twidenash/2.0/ ./twidenash
<cjohnston> Does that allow manually scheduling?
<mhall119> cjohnston: only through the django admin
<cjohnston> hmm
<cjohnston> So we need a way to mark a room as avoid auto scheduler
<cjohnston> Like a 'Manual Scheduling'
<cjohnston> because, unless Linaro has a reason to have them private, there isn't really a reason that they shouldn't be displayed to anyone.
<mhall119> cjohnston: maybe "Reserved" would be a good type description
<cjohnston> That would work..
<james_w> mhall119, done both
<cjohnston> james_w: what do you think about a reserved status.. That way the room is still "Public" but the autoscheduler doesn't schedule stuff in there.. similar to private, just being visible to everyone
<cjohnston> on the edit page stuff can be manually scheduled
<mhall119> fixed microblogging
<cjohnston> cool
<james_w> cjohnston, maybe
<james_w> I need to look in to whether we want the schedule for these rooms to be displayed at all
<cjohnston> ok
<james_w> we are using the tracks feature though
<james_w> so it would only autoschedule sessions in the linaro-hacking track
<james_w> in to those rooms
<cjohnston> right...
<james_w> so if we just schedule it how we want the autoscheduler will leave it along
<james_w> alone
<cjohnston> wont the conflict resolver mess with it if conflicts arise?
<james_w> nope
<james_w> not if we manually schedule everything
<james_w> the conflict resolver doesn't change hand-scheduled stuff
<cjohnston> gotcha
<cjohnston> mhall119: oops
<nigelb> james_w: the rescheduler does.
<mhall119> cjohnston: yeah, sorry about that
<james_w> nigelb, does what?
<mhall119> statik has requested an official build and release of the latest django-openid-auth though
<nigelb> james_w: move things around
<james_w> nigelb, where?
<cjohnston> whats the eta on that mhall119
<mhall119> cjohnston: dunno, let me ask
<nigelb> james_w: I think its commented out now. So we may be okay.
<cjohnston> be even more awesomer if the memory issues get fixed instead
<mhall119> yeah, that's the big concern
<cjohnston> thats why i asked about getting them switched
<cjohnston> maybe you can say thats a good idea or something
<nigelb> Worst case, we could just spawn an ec2 for summit.
<nigelb> Really, I'm not that scared about the memory issues.
<cjohnston> do you actually think they would point summit to an ec2?
<nigelb> Yes, given enough pressure.
<james_w> nigelb, the reschedule code only acts on autoscheduled events
<nigelb> james_w: AH!
<nigelb> the "auto" flag, right.
<cjohnston> and you don't think that when we actually add load to summit cranberry will get worse?
<james_w> ywp
<nigelb> cjohnston: I can't say that for sure.
<nigelb> No one can.
<nigelb> Because we don't know what's causing the problems
<nigelb> Its intermittent.
<cjohnston> thats my point... that we need to figure it out
<nigelb> Personally, I think its something to do with apache config.
<nigelb> But someone needs to spend time figuring that out.
<cjohnston> yup
<nigelb> I don't have access, neither do you.
<nigelb> That leaves IS or mhall119 / Daviey / james_w.
<cjohnston> but do mhall119 Daviey and james_w have the correct access to figre it out?
<nigelb> And we probably need root at some point.
<nigelb> So, they don't have all the access.
<mhall119> I only have write access to the summit directory
<nigelb> We're screwed with a ghost of a problem.
<cjohnston> throw harvest back on cranberry and give us guanabanana
<nigelb> And, to make things even more complicated, its one of those things you have to be watching happen.
<cjohnston> or wtf ever it is
<nigelb> Its guanabana.
<cjohnston> whatever
<cjohnston> :-P
<cjohnston> nigelb: mhall119 are there any of the emails that would be better than another to attach to the RT?
<nigelb> pick any
<mhall119> cjohnston: for the memory issue?
<mhall119> none of the django ones will be especially helpful, because the error gets thrown at random places, whatever happened to be executing when it ran out
<cjohnston> I attached the most recent I have
<cjohnston> james_w: keeps spamming me :-P
<james_w> I can stop working if you want :-)
<cjohnston> nope
<cjohnston> yay
<cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb james_w are we good with marking [summit-hackers] figure out a way to import data locally for testing    to postpone?
<nigelb> Yes, go ahead
<cjohnston> same with [summit-hackers] JSON export of data to be used for local testing: TODO
<cjohnston> [summit-hackers] Add more content/direct links on the front page: TODO
<nigelb> the last one is DONE
<nigelb> is it it?
<cjohnston> [summit-hackers] Making user roles for different users providing different levels of access: TODO
<james_w> oh my
<cjohnston> more content direct links on front page is different than main nav matching
<nigelb> ah
<james_w> I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllly hate model_mommy
<nigelb> You shouldn't forget a single model
<nigelb> Or mummy doesn't work ;)
<nigelb> The launchpad way is more awesome.
<cjohnston> [summit-hackers] Create a mutable item to where meetings in the past are muted: TODO   <--- this one is where the rescheduler doesnt reschedule stuff in the past?
<nigelb> cjohnston: That was also for rooms being closed etc.
<nigelb> Like sessions happen in Room X on day 1.
<nigelb> We close that room.
<nigelb> To facilitate that, we delete the room. All hell breaks loose.
<cjohnston> So we need to fix that prior to this uds
<nigelb> Actually, we need to make room availability better.
<nigelb> Like mark time periods where the room is unavailable.
<cjohnston> we have that
<nigelb> Then we should just tell jcastro to use that next time.
<cjohnston> There is busy times...
<cjohnston> the ability to add three different times
<cjohnston> i dont know if you can add more if you use all three
<cjohnston> like say monday wednesday thursday afternoon and friday arent available
<cjohnston> I am wondering with all the additional rooms if the schedule is going to be too wide for the screen
<nigelb> we should get the schedule to be better.
<nigelb> that still bothers me
<cjohnston> i wonder if the screens will be available a few days prior to uds
<nigelb> ask elmo
<cjohnston> mhall119: nigelb james_w https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-summit    what else do you think we can postpone?
<nigelb> the render.py
<cjohnston> nigelb: did you ever finish the api bug you were working on?
<nigelb> No
<nigelb> I don't think I will get to it either.
<nigelb> I need more time.
<james_w> Fix scheduling conflict resolution and notification
<james_w> what's that one?
<james_w> Making user roles for different users providing different levels of access <- I'm not sure we'll get to that one
<cjohnston> I'm not hugely familiar with the API (read don't know how to do it on my own) but I think thats an important bug to fix to make summit hugely improved
<james_w> hmm, we should likely turn the reschedule script off on the last day
<james_w> oh no, it won't fight with the admins, so it's ok
<nigelb> james_w: it usually is turned off.
<nigelb> we forgot last time :-)
<james_w> well it shouldn't be
<james_w> perhaps add a rule to not reschedule anything that starts in the next N hours?
<james_w> Allow people to define their own Busy times, check them for scheduling conflicts <- busy times are implemented, there's just no non-admin interface
<nigelb> can we hackup a form for that?
<nigelb> I think it should be "easy"
<james_w> we could
<cjohnston> yup
<james_w> I'm not inclined to
<cjohnston> well.. i dont know about easy
<nigelb> I wish we had more hands for ubuntu webdev.
<cjohnston> teach czajkowski to hack summit
<mhall119> cjohnston: we can still get a JSON read-only API in before UDS
<james_w> does anyone know if we are getting Guidebook again this time?
<mhall119> cjohnston: django-openid-auth_0.4 is building in our PPA now, I should be able to re-open that RT tomorrow
<mhall119> james_w: I haven't heard either way, I assume we are
<cjohnston> james_w: we are afaik
<cjohnston> mhall119: sweet
<cjohnston> james_w: i dont know that we should mark the private rooms bug as released..
<cjohnston> we still dont have a way to display that someone is in a private meeting in a private room
<james_w> cjohnston, true, but we can live without it if we have to
<james_w> I say file another bug
<james_w>  5 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 50 deletions(-)
<cjohnston> james_w: have a moment to help me debug code?
<james_w> sure
<cjohnston> james_w: https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/summit/trackleads
<cjohnston> I'm getting an error with inner() which is in decorators.py
<cjohnston> inner() takes at least 3 arguments (2 given)
<cjohnston> I'm sure my lead isn't right.. I'm just lost on getting it right
<james_w> why does the lead need to go in there?
<james_w> inner() gets the arguments from the url
<james_w> so it's taking the summit-name from the start
<james_w> and expecting to get the lead next
<james_w> but urls.py isn't set up to pass that through
<cjohnston> ok
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-16
<james_w> https://bugs.launchpad.net/summit/+bug/663168
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 663168 in summit "http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-n/track/other/ returns an error (affects: 1) (heat: 5)" [Critical,Confirmed]
<james_w> that sounds like an old django bug to me
<james_w> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/models/querysets/#get
<james_w> is the first entry in the section "Methods that do not return QuerySets"
<cjohnston> Mark invalid and tell to reopen if needed
<cjohnston> ?
<cjohnston> o.. that might be prior to initslots being run
<james_w> unless somehow the query is somehow returning a QuerySet
<mhall119> james_w: I marked that bug as critical because they said they put in place a 'bandaid' fix, which I wanted to check up on and clean up if necessary
<czajkowski> cjohnston: I've my hands full with enough things besides dev and I prefer poking proding and gentle harassing
<czajkowski> it's more me
<mhall119> james_w: cjohnston: nigelb: any objections to me killing the stable series now that trunk is in production?
<nigelb> go. kill.
<cjohnston> mhall119: I thought you were the one wanting to keep stable so that trunk could be unstable
<nigelb> No
<nigelb> we don't let trunk be unstable anymore apparently.
<mhall119> nigelb: trunk is no longer unstable
<nigelb> That too.
<cjohnston> I thought you were wanting to allow it to be unstable mhall119
<mhall119> cjohnston: when I thought we were going to do major work on render.py this cycle I did
<mhall119> but that didn't happen, so we're back to just trunk and production
<nigelb> cjohnston: can you mark the render.py item as POSTPONED
<mhall119> if/when we end up doing that, we'll make a new unstable branch
<cjohnston> ok
<nigelb> mhall119: Please make that High priority for next cycle when you discuss at UDS.
<cjohnston> you going to be at the meetings nigelb ?
<cjohnston> and then are you going to help us next cycle? :-
<nigelb> If its in the first half the day
<cjohnston> :-P
<nigelb> that will depend on a lot of things.
<nigelb> But I will finish what I started :)
<nigelb> I won't take "new" responsibilities
<nigelb> but I'll take the carried over ones for sure
<mhall119> nigelb: I'm leaning towards "replace render.py screens" rather than attempting to "refactor render.py" or "cleanup render.py"
 * cjohnston assigns render.py to nigelb for next session
<nigelb> mhall119: Yes, replace.
<cjohnston> render.py is postponed
<nigelb> With a lot of templates and macros
<nigelb> mhall119: We should also improve our infra.
<nigelb> What do you think of setting up jenkins? ;)
<nigelb> and if jenkins can do auto-push to the ec2, that'd be splendid.
<mhall119> how much work is it?
<nigelb> I can do the work, give me a server :-)
<nigelb> I did this for $DAYJOB
<mhall119> or could we just have tarmac run the django test suite before landing
<nigelb> that too
<cjohnston> nigelb: what does [summit-hackers] on blueprints set the session summary page as the wiki page: TODO mean
<nigelb> But that would make tarmac slower
<nigelb> we wanted to pull the session summary from blueprints to summit
<nigelb> and show it for ical especially
<nigelb> still doable if you want to poke it
<cjohnston> i thought that was different..
<cjohnston> thats bug #793018
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 793018 in summit "Pull the summary from the launchpad blueprint and push it out via the iCal to Guidebook (affects: 1) (heat: 3)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/793018
<nigelb> OR
<nigelb> It might be pushing the session eitherpad page to launchpad
<nigelb> But I don't remember that being talked about
<nigelb> Anyway, we can't do it this cycle.
<cjohnston> im trying to figure out delete vs postpone... if noone knows what it is then delete
 * mhall119 is impatient when it comes to tarmac
<nigelb> mhall119: I'll take an action item to help with that :)
<cjohnston> make a slap tarmac link that we can hit
<mhall119> nigelb: you gonna make me more patient?
<nigelb> mhall119: No.
<nigelb> I'll give you a link to hit
<nigelb> I need to add lock files so we don't have simultaneous runs
<cjohnston> mhall119: the imported blueprint is meeting model type blueprint I assume?
<nigelb> yes
<mhall119> yes
<cjohnston> jamalta:
 * cjohnston nominates jamalta as new lead for summit
<jamalta> no way :P
<nigelb> I propose cjohnston
<jamalta> nigelb: +1
<nigelb> mhall119?
<cjohnston> nigelb: you can't propose the person who assigned you
<nigelb> It depends
<cjohnston> no it doesnt
<nigelb> At the end of the majority vote wins as well ;)
<cjohnston> this isnt a democracy
<nigelb> I thought you were all for demcracy?
<nigelb> Its a mertocracy. Whoever does the work gets the job.
<nigelb> :P
<cjohnston> no.. whoever does the work gets to pick
<nigelb> james_w / mhall119 - relevant to yesterday http://people.mozilla.org/~jdow/deploy.jpg
<mhall119> ha
<jamalta> +1
<mhall119> is james_w around today?
<mhall119> cjohnston: nigelb: can one of you review https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-tests/+merge/75795 ?
<nigelb> mhall119: I'll go one up on that. reviewed and landed.
<mhall119> thanks nigelb
<nigelb> mhall119: I'm concerned. model_mummy is becoming more painful.
<nigelb> Is there a way to make it accept defaults
<mhall119> nigelb: possibly, I'm not sure
<mhall119> I think it's still worth using though
<nigelb> Totally worth using!
<nigelb> But when we change something, lot of tests might break
<mhall119> nigelb: which tells us that our tests are no longer valid and need to be changed as well
<mhall119> which is a good thing
<nigelb> mhall119: at some point I'll exlain how launchpad tests work.
 * AlanBell fixes another bug in https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/loco-directory/backbutton/+merge/73526
<nigelb> we can just say makeProduct() and it will take some random values.
<nigelb> I can override any property I wwant to.
<mhall119> nigelb: is that something the LP devs created, or something they get from using Zope?
<nigelb> I'll have to check.
<nigelb> mhall119: created
<james_w> mhall119, I am
<nigelb> mhall119: not too hard either
<nigelb> we should do something like that
<nigelb> s/should/could
<nigelb> Its not eeasy
<james_w> mhall119, it's all custom code
<james_w> it's better than model_mommy though in my opinion
<mhall119> james_w: I landed pretty much everythiing and updated the ec2 with teh latest trunk
<james_w> model_mommy is *almost* right
<james_w> yay, thanks mhall119
<james_w> just that last little bit is *so* wrong
<nigelb> heh
<mhall119> james_w: I had to go back and update some test cases to force requires_dial_in=False for older tests
<james_w> it should create non-random readable strings by default
<nigelb> We could wrap around model mummy to create such a factory.
<james_w> mhall119, I guess that should be the default on the model?
<james_w> nigelb, maybe, yeah
<mhall119> james_w: it seems that model_mommy doesn't use the default, it still goes random
<james_w> mhall119, it's docs say it should use the default if there is one, I'll look in to it
<james_w> nigelb, in fact a subclass can likely fix it
<mhall119> I ran pdb, and it was setting some to True
<james_w> keeping the current mode as an optional fuzzer would be good
<nigelb> james_w: \o/
<mhall119> fuzz testing, fun
<nigelb> We may be hacking around model_mummy in the wrong way.
<james_w> deterministic tests are great
<james_w> having a fuzzer to find problems when you want is also good
<james_w> I might spend my afternoon on that in fact
<james_w> let's see what my mail client says about that
<nigelb> james_w: when I meet you again, I'm buying you a beer! :-)
<mhall119> james_w: or you can do a production deployment of summit if you want, there's only the one migration, and no major changes
<james_w> mhall119, ok, I can do that
<james_w> it's Friday what can go wrong!
<mhall119> who cares, everybody's gone home anyway
<james_w> jamalta, nice bug fix! :-)
<mhall119> I assume it works anyway
<mhall119> since it calls LP using urllib2, I couldn't write a test case without mocking
<jamalta> james_w: ha ty
<jamalta> mhall119: well, should that be re-written to use launchpadlib instead?
<mhall119> I don't think that particular bit is exposed via launchpadlib
<mhall119> or at least it wasn't when it was written
<jamalta> ahh
<mhall119> appears to work
<james_w> ah screwy, model_mommy explicitly ignores defaults on boolean fields
<james_w> as django apparently sets a default on them
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-17
<cjohnston> do be do
<mhall119> nigelb: cjohnston: james_w: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/rest-api/+merge/75859
<nigelb> mhall119: heh, just saw that
<nigelb> mhall119: Did you see lyz is doing a career day today?
<mhall119> nigelb: yeah
<mhall119> nigelb: cjohnston: james_w: got another one for you: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/personal-ical/+merge/75860
<mhall119> and with that, I'm calling it a day
<mhall119> nigelb: would you be able to figure out which bugs we've fixed since last UDS?
<nigelb> Yeah
<nigelb> mhall119: Can you blog?
<nigelb> I'll mail it to ya
<mhall119> yeah, I'm going to blog about our summit progress, and I'd like to include that list
<mhall119> thanks nigelb
<nigelb> :)
<mhall119> 33 bug fixes, not bad
<mhall119> that doesn't even count the numer of things that we did without a bug #
<nigelb> I'm going run a lint.
<mhall119> be careful
<nigelb> mhall119: check merges as well.
<mhall119> lint just might punch you in the face when it sees it
<nigelb> haha
<nigelb> Entirely possible.
<nigelb> Or it might say "LOL"
<nigelb> mhall119: OH GOD.
<mhall119> I'm guessing it was closer to a punch in the face than "LOL"
<nigelb> It punched me.
<nigelb> let me do somethign like what launchpad does
<nigelb> fix lint for files you modify
<nigelb> so, slowly, we'll get there.
<nigelb> Hrm. This may be hard.
<mhall119> 68 merges
<mhall119> yeah, I'm not overly concerned about lint
<mhall119> for new files it might be a good requirement
<nigelb> mhall119: I'll try and fix them all in an MP.
<mhall119> all?
<mhall119> I'd suggest one MP per file
<mhall119> it'll be easier for us to review
<nigelb> one MP per file?
<nigelb> woah.
<nigelb> that's goign to be hard.
<nigelb> I can do one MP per app.
<mhall119> there's only 2 apps
<nigelb> Yeah :D
<mhall119> http://paste.ubuntu.com/691741/ anything else I should mention in my blog?
<mhall119> nigelb: I just don't want a 4000 line MP
<nigelb> It won't be that long, don't worry :)
<nigelb> mhall119: You will clean up the formatting right?
<mhall119> I'm betting it'll be close
<nigelb> like put it into a table, eetc
<mhall119> nigelb: yes, that's just a quick dump of what I want to mention
<mhall119> I'm also hoping to be able to mention my 2 new MPs (hint, hint)
<nigelb> :)
<mhall119> one more MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-test-site_root/+merge/75862
<mhall119> 63 test cases, and with the above MP they all pass
<nigelb> mhall119: I get what you mean
<nigelb> this is going to be long lints
<nigelb> so I'll fix a few propose an MP. fix a fwe more and propose another MP.
<mhall119> sounds good
<james_w> mhall119, 237	+ key.update(str(self.pk))
<james_w> 238	+ key.update(self.user.username)
<james_w> why did you want to have those in the md5?
<mhall119> james_w: just to add more to the hash than just a random number
<mhall119> overkill?
<james_w> I think the only thing it protects against is recycling the RNG seed
<james_w> if, say, every request had the same seed then every user would get the same key without that
<james_w> but aside from that I don't think it contributes much
<james_w> but it doesn't hurt either
<nigelb> When does the md5 get generated?
<nigelb> Every login?
<nigelb> (I just confused after I commented)
<mhall119> nigelb: the first time Attendee.get_secret_key is called
<james_w> all three approved
<nigelb> james_w: You, sir, are courageous. Cleaning up render.py is not an easy task :)
<mhall119> james_w: you'll have to update your MP for the Schedule.__init__ cleanup to add the show_private that I added
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> nigelb, yours is approved as well now
<nigelb> Thanks!
 * nigelb runs tarmac
<james_w> mhall119, merged, and test added
<mhall119> http://ec2-50-16-76-22.compute-1.amazonaws.com/ has been updated to trunk
<mhall119> the personal ical is going to be much nicer
<mhall119> who manages the bots for UDS, anybody know?
<nigelb> mhall119: tsimppson
<mhall119> now I just need to write API docs
<mhall119> nigelb: would it be appropriate to add the API doc to your rtd stuff?
<nigelb> mhall119: Yes, please go ahead
<nigelb> james_w: what do you think abuot setting up bzr pipes for lint checking? (like launchpad)
<james_w> pipes?
<nigelb> bzr pipe plugin
<mhall119> nigelb: if you make committing dependent on passing a lint test, I swear to god I'm leaving the project
<nigelb> mhall119: lol, not commiting.
<nigelb> What it does is, lints the files you make changes
<nigelb> But only those files
<nigelb> So, like our testing infrastructure, we can slowly improve
<nigelb> so, if you branch and touch 5 files, it will only lint those. Once you commit and touch one file. Before the next commit it will only lint one file. Onc you commit - all 6 files.
<james_w> https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/summit/test-render.py-2/+merge/75870
#ubuntu-website 2011-09-18
<mhall119> james_w: it appears summit already has code to fire a signal on Meeting or Agenda changes to clear the cache, so maybe we need to investigate the bug a little more
<mhall119> oh ho! nevermind, it's a relatively easy fix
<mhall119> the signal was only clearing 'meeting-html-%s', but render.py is using both that and 'meeting-track-html-%s'
<mhall119> and the bug specifically mentions that the cache isn't being cleared when viewing the by_track schedule
<mhall119> james_w: approved both of your test-render.py branches
<mhall119> also just proposed https://code.launchpad.net/~mhall119/summit/fix-cache/+merge/75881 to fix the cache issue
 * nigelb ^5 mhall119 
<nigelb> Nice job!
<mhall119> nigelb: still waiting for tarmac to land james_w
<mhall119> nigelb: still waiting for tarmac to land james_w's second branch
<mhall119> I approved them both at roughly the same time
<mhall119> alright nigelb, something's up with tarmac and james_w's second branch, can you look into it please?
<nigelb> mhall119: looking
<nigelb> mhall119: commit message?
<nigelb> mhall119: yep, empty commit message. Added one.
<mhall119> ah, I checked the first, but not the second, thanks nigelb
<nigelb> mhall119: I think we should try to have a bot announce commits
<nigelb> It makes it way less confusing
<mhall119> in here?
<nigelb> yeah
<mhall119> that'd be cool
<mhall119> merge conflicts, I'm having to manually land that other branch
<nigelb> ouch
<nigelb> go ahead
<head_victim> Any idea how long pastes on paste.u.c last?
<nigelb> forever, I tink.
<head_victim> nigelb: cheers, I figured it was a while but couldn't really find much documentation on anything to do with paste.u.c
<nigelb> head_victim: Its a total guess. I'm not sure. I tend to not use paste.u.c because I can't expire pastes
<head_victim> nigelb: fair enough, was being asked in my loco.
<AlanBell> head_victim: it is forever, you can go back to http://paste.ubuntu.com/1/
<head_victim> AlanBell: handy to know, thanks for the evidence.
<mhall119> s/forever/indefinitely/
<mhall119> paste.u.c presumably won't survive the heat death of the universe
<mhall119> nigelb: so a few weeks ago I asked joey for his bug priorities in summit
<mhall119> he gave me his "big three"
<mhall119> of which, one is Fix Released and the other two are Fix Committed
<nigelb> \m/
<nigelb> mhall119: get him to buy you a drink ;)
<nigelb> mhall119: I want to try and finish off everything I have pending as well.
<nigelb> Let me try to get them to you this week.
<mhall119> nigelb: can you fix up that last refreshed date display branch so we can clear our the mPs?
<nigelb> yeah, that's what I'm doing first
<nigelb> mhall119: You want in top left?
<mhall119> I think we decided on top-right
<mhall119> what does the MP say?>
<mhall119> yeah, top-right
<james_w> head_victim, you shouldn't rely on paste.ubuntu.com. I'm sure one day they will delete old stuff
<mhall119> it's good for what it is, but it ain't document storage
<mhall119> james_w: do you want to deploy what's in trunk?
<james_w> mhall119, I'll do it tomorrow
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> james_w: it's all running on the ec2 now, if you wanted to try it out
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> I'll do some testing before I start a deploy
<cjohnston> mhall119: ever figure out what is needed for leads = ForeignKey(x.x.y.Attendee)  ?
<mhall119> cjohnston: nope, haven't looked into it yet
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-10
<nigelb> cjohnston: ugh. I'll look into it.
<mhall119> cjohnston: did summit get a new release?  something's broken
<cjohnston> whats broken
<mhall119> looks like the meeting view pages: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20590/foundations-roundtable-monday/
<mhall119> NoReverseMatch: Reverse for 'summit.schedule.views.attendee_review' with arguments '(u'uds-q', 20590, u'foundations-roundtable-monday')' and keyword arguments '{}' not found.
<cjohnston> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~summit-hackers/summit/production/revision/190#summit/schedule/templates/schedule/meeting.html
<cjohnston> that would be my guess
<mhall119> is that a recent change?
<cjohnston> well.. it was just released
<cjohnston> mhall119: its working locally
<mhall119> yeah, I've asked deej to reboot apache on that box
<cjohnston> nope
<cjohnston> mhall119: the error changed
<mhall119> yeah, I see that
<cjohnston> it needs a migrate
<cjohnston> I guess I missed that in the instructions
<cjohnston> :-(
<mhall119> better than a rollback though, if it works
<cjohnston> mhall119: how does that look for you
<mhall119> yup
<mhall119> good
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-11
<daker> cjohnston: i got an email from Jeroen Vermeulen about the translation branch being locked
<cjohnston> so did i
<cjohnston> mhall119: did you get that email?
<mhall119> yup
<daker> cjohnston: but the branch is not locked :/
<cjohnston> I'm not clearly sure what the issue is either
<cjohnston> I'm not clearly sure what the issue is either
<mhall119> I didn't even think we had a daily translations export
<daker> :)
<daker> this one https://code.launchpad.net/~ltp-devs/loco-team-portal/translations
<cjohnston> We do but I dont think we ever used it for anything
<daker> ah yes we just request the tar.gz file LP, cjohnston right ?
<cjohnston> iirc yes
<cjohnston> and iirc the reason we don't use the 'daily' is because IS doesn't like things being changed automatically
<daker> https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/trunk/+translations
<daker> "Automatic synchronization"
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-12
<cjohnston> mhall119:
<AlanBell> just getting a summit instance up and running again, seems I can't create a new summit in the admin interface, 'super' object has no attribute '_media'
<AlanBell> Exception Location: /home/alan/Projects/summitpad/summit/summit/../summit/schedule/admin/summitadmin.py in _media, line 38
<cjohnston> did you run it ./manage.py runserver --settings ubuntusettings
<cjohnston> did you run it ./manage.py runserver --settings ubuntu_settings
<cjohnston> the second one
<AlanBell> yes, the second one
<AlanBell> the front end runs with the ubuntu themeing
<cjohnston> can you paste the entire error please
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1200984/
<AlanBell> I can create other objects (well hit the add button and see the form)
<AlanBell> but you can't do much else without a summit object
<cjohnston> how new is your code? (trunk?)
<AlanBell> it was old and I did a bzr pull
<cjohnston> 1) did you migrate, 2) does the admin area have a theme
<AlanBell> probably not, no
<cjohnston> ./manage.py collectstatic
<AlanBell> I did a make clean which nuked my database so didn't think migration was required
 * AlanBell does the collectstatic thing
<AlanBell> no visible difference
<cjohnston> I don't use make, so I'm not sure about that
<cjohnston> the admin area has no theming at all?
<AlanBell> well, standard blue django stuff
<cjohnston> ok
<cjohnston> thats correct
<cjohnston> mhall119: any idea about the _media thing? I have never dont the make stuff
<AlanBell> don't think it is related to the make clean, that just wiped my previous carefully set up database
<cjohnston> I can give you a db to use
<cjohnston> but the problem you are having concerns me
<cjohnston> ahh
<cjohnston> Django Version:1.4.1
<cjohnston> we are still 1.3
<AlanBell> oh
<AlanBell> dammit
<AlanBell> so I can't do it on quantal
<cjohnston> pip
<cjohnston> summit-dev.readthedocs.org
<mhall119> cjohnston: AlanBell: which webapp?
<AlanBell> summit
<mhall119> only the /admin/ theme is missing?
<AlanBell> no, that is fine, I can't hit the add button for a new summit object
<cjohnston> mhall119: no, there is a _media error
<AlanBell> gah, even if I hack my way around that I hit https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/18018
<ubottu> Django bug 18018 in Uncategorized "MessageFailure in Django 1.4 admin" [Normal,Closed]
 * AlanBell finds it all works lovely with virtualenv and django 1.3.1
<cjohnston> ;-)
<cjohnston> yay
 * AlanBell starts adding tracks and sessions and rooms and such for the Rockin Robin UDS
 * mhall119 is howing for Rascally Rabbit
<mhall119> hoping even
<AlanBell> might be an idea to edit the INSTALLING file to say "DON'T DO THIS, go to summit-dev.readthedocs.org and do that instead"
<cjohnston> well, we dont say it works on quantal
<AlanBell> well it does, with virtualenv
<cjohnston> correct
<daker> not sure why this hasn't been merged https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/loco-team-portal/update-openids-update/+merge/112914
<cjohnston> give it an hour.. if it doesnt merge by then, yell at nigelb
<daker> cjohnston: approved on 2012-07-05
<cjohnston> it lacked a commit message
<daker> oh yes
<AlanBell> is there a way in summit to get the meeting currently happening in a particular room
<AlanBell> I can see the stuff to get the next slot, but I am struggling with the current slot
<AlanBell> schedule = Schedule.from_request(request, summit, attendee, room=None, nextonly=True)
<AlanBell> I want nowonly, rather than nextonly
<daker> AlanBell: ask cjohnston
<cjohnston> i dont think so
<cjohnston> what is the use case for that
<AlanBell> building a page that shows the current meeting in a room
<AlanBell> along with stuff happening next at the bottom
<AlanBell> I think I can add such a facility, was just checking to see if there was an easy way to do it
<cjohnston> nothing that already exists afaik
<daker> cjohnston: can you re-check this please https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-team-portal/fix.960695.meetings-app/+merge/108492
<daker> i did a merge and this work, no merge conflicts
<daker> works*
<cjohnston> nigelb: tarmac isnt working
<cjohnston> daker: if it merges cleanly I'm good with it
<daker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1201362/
<cjohnston> :-)
<daker> cjohnston: this one too
<daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-team-portal/fix.960695.common-app/+merge/108439
<daker> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1201377/
<cjohnston> as long as it merges cleanly +1
<cjohnston> dinner
<daker> thanks
<AlanBell> http://alanbell.libertus.co.uk:8000/uds-r/projector/the-kitchen/?fakenow=2012-09-12_09:15
<AlanBell> that in theory should be precisely right full screen on the 1280x800 projectors used at UDS
<AlanBell> and shows the current meeting and pad, plus the next stuff in all rooms at the bottom
<AlanBell> need to get it to autorefresh on the hour
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-13
<nigelb> cjohnston: looking
<mhall119> AlanBell: is it possible to have the chat open by default?
<cjohnston> AlanBell: meetings dont last an hour
<nigelb> cjohnston: I ran tarmac manually. debugging.
<nigelb> cjohnston: I think I fixed the problem with tarmac. Can you try it tonight and let me know?
<cjohnston> no
<cjohnston> I'm in bed
<nigelb> Sure, tomorrow morning then.
<cjohnston> ill review the summit code you write tonight. :)
<nigelb> pfft
<nigelb> I'm busy with a server migration.
<cjohnston> pfft
<cjohnston> we upgraded fragaria today... much more risk
<nigelb> well
<nigelb> I'm upgrading servrs that power about 15websites and there's actual sales going on.
<AlanBell> cjohnston: yeah, I know, I am not going to base it on hours, will get it to reload if the current time is after the end time of the meeting it is currently displaying
<AlanBell> mhall119: probably, yes
<AlanBell> and turn off most of the formatting and other stuff
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-15
<pleia2> daker: had someone comment on my blog that they tried to contribute to LTP but their MP w/ patch is still pending: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=6662#comment-8663
<pleia2> (I see you replied, but it was a month ago :))
<daker> yes
<daker> i'll look into it tonight
<pleia2> thank you
#ubuntu-website 2012-09-16
<daker> hey cjohnston can you look again pls https://code.launchpad.net/~daker/loco-team-portal/fix.616547/+merge/107553
<cjohnston> daker: I think it needs to be split up into a couple different MPs please
<daker> it's not possible :)
<daker> most of the code is just for the UI
<cjohnston> also:
<cjohnston> i found out
<cjohnston> OPENID_STRICT_USERNAMES = True
<cjohnston> OPENID_FOLLOW_RENAMES = True
<cjohnston> OPENID_SREG_REQUIRED_FIELDS = ['email', 'nickname']
<cjohnston> gives an error
<daker> ah ok
<cjohnston> because of the strict usernames, nickname is already required
<cjohnston> so just sreg req fields email
<cjohnston> drop the nickname from the third line
<daker> ok
<daker> like this :
<daker> OPENID_SREG_REQUIRED_FIELDS = ['email'
<daker> ]
<daker> cjohnston: ^
<cjohnston> i think so
<cjohnston> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~summit-hackers/summit/trunk/revision/447
<daker> done
#ubuntu-website 2015-09-10
<vlt> Hello. The universe is less than 1025 years old, according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedFilesystemHowto.  Thereâs a problem in https://help.ubuntu.com/moin_static193/light/css/reset.css where in line 3 the element âsupâ is set to âvertical-align: baseline;â and âfont-size: 100%;â which presents 10<sup>25</sup> as 1025.  Where to file a bug?
<daker> jose: i am having issues with LP account
<daker> 2F issue so i can't connect to my account
<jose> daker: have you emailed IS?
<daker> jose: i didn't have time to do it
<jose> no worries
#ubuntu-website 2016-09-12
<nottrobin> @webteam: Does ubuntu.com have a pattern for alert rows? I want to make a row saying "This section doesn't work without JavaScript".
<ant__> nottrobin, can you not make it progressive? If not it should be hidden with a simple message?
<nottrobin> ant__: yes of course I'm only showing it if JavaScript isn't there. I'm saying, how can I style it?
<nottrobin> ant__: oh you mean hide the whole contents of the page?
<nottrobin> ant__: it's for /download/desktop/contribute. You can't submit through PayPal without JavaScript, so the page is pointless.
<nottrobin> ant__: we're going to avoid linking there for people who don't have JavaScript
<nottrobin> ant__: but still people could land there by choice
<antdillon> mmm ... interesting ... PayPal requires js?
<antdillon> nottrobin, ^
<nottrobin> antdillon: https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/848#issuecomment-246305796
<nottrobin> antdillon: about the 6th bullet
<nottrobin> antdillon: this is what I've done for now: http://i.imgur.com/eQXmpSr.png
<nottrobin> sewaddle: I've hopefully addressed all your concerns: https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/848#issuecomment-246318587
<nottrobin> antdillon: If you get this done then I'll do my QA stuff: https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/846#discussion_r78285696
<antdillon> nottrobin, can you add the link to continue to the download too please
<nottrobin> antdillon: done
<antdillon> nottrobin, how you getting on with this review? https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/846
<nottrobin> antdillon: waiting on your response to my comment, mentioned above ^^^^
<antdillon> nottrobin, ok
<antdillon> nottrobin, done ^
<nottrobin> antdillon: https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/846#issuecomment-246378053
<nottrobin> antdillon: and 2 other comments which you can ignore if you want
<antdillon> nottrobin, done again ^
<nottrobin> antdillon: cool. QAing
<nottrobin> antdillon: could you rebase your branch on top of master? I'm getting JavaScript errors in firefox which I think are fixed.
#ubuntu-website 2016-09-13
<antdillon> nottrobin, anything else we need to get rid of YUI?
<nottrobin> antdillon: yes, the managed-cloud calculator needs rewriting
<nottrobin> antdillon: I started it, but I now have to focus 100% on docs so it's on hold for a bit
<antdillon> nottrobin, did your slider work not cut it?
<antdillon> nottrobin, ok cool
<nottrobin> antdillon: the slider works, I'll show you the branch in a sec, but there's a lot of other YUI code
<nottrobin> antdillon: for the calculations
<nottrobin> antdillon: here's the work I did so far: https://github.com/ubuntudesign/www.ubuntu.com/pull/858/files
<nottrobin> antdillon: sliders work but styling is whack
<nottrobin> antdillon: feel free to take my work and run with it :)
<antdillon> nottrobin, ta, may take you up on it
#ubuntu-website 2018-09-14
<manuel_> Alâ¼aÒ» is Ôoiá¥g
<genius300019> AllÐ°h ÑÑ dâ²ing
<genius300019> sunâiÑ á¥ot â¾oiá¥g Allah â°Ñ doiá¥É¡
<genius300019> moon is nÎ¿t dÐ¾iá¥gâÐllÐ°Ò»â¯iÑ doing
<Pisle19> Ðâ¼lah ÑÑ doÑng
<ltx12814> Aâ¼lahâisâdoÑng
<ltx12814> sá¥á¥ is notâÔà´ Ñá¥g ÐllÉh isâÔâ²Ñng
<ltx12814> moÎ¿á¥ ÑsânÐ¾t Ôoiá¥É¡ Alâ¼aÒ»âis doâ°ng
<kseniya201628> Aâ¼laÒ» â°s Ôâ²ÑnÉ¡
<Reshesnik7> Aâ¼â¼ahâis dÎ¿Ñng
<foxhunt_away9> Îlâ¼aÒ»âiÑâdoâ°ng
<masta22> Ðâ¼lÉÒ» Ñs doiá¥É¡
<KanocX22> Aâ¼laÒ» isâdoÑnÉ¡
<alandipert23> Aâ¼lah iÑ doinÉ¡
<thetoolm2n> Ðllah â°sâÔÎ¿iá¥É¡
<Dmitrii-Sh10> Aâ¼lÉhâÑÑ doâ°nÉ¡
<Dmitrii-Sh10> sá¥á¥âisâá¥otâdÐ¾ing AllÐ°hÂ iÑâÔoinÉ¡
<Dmitrii-Sh10> â¿oâ²á¥ isânà´ tâdÐ¾ÑnÉ¡Â Îâ¼â¼aÒ» iÑâÔÐ¾iá¥g
<cryptolock25> Aâ¼lah iÑ doiá¥g
<jugo22> ÐllÐ°Ò» Ñs dÎ¿ing
<jgkamat23> AllahâiÑÂ dâ²iá¥É¡
<jgkamat23> Ñunâis á¥ot ÔÎ¿iá¥g áªlâ¼ahâÑs dà´ inÉ¡
<jgkamat23> moÐ¾n iÑ á¥à´ tâÔÐ¾â°nÉ¡ Ðâ¼â¼ah â°s doinÉ¡
<jgkamat23> stars areâá¥ot ÔÎ¿ÑnÉ¡ AllaÒ»âiÑ dÎ¿iá¥g
<talyz4> Aâ¼lÉÒ» is ÔÎ¿ing
<talyz4> sunâÑsânâ²t ÔÎ¿ingâAâ¼lÉÒ» Ñs â¾à´ â°nÉ¡
<talyz4> â¿oâ²n is á¥ot dÐ¾iá¥É¡ ÐllÉhâÑÑ doÑá¥g
<quicksilver23> Aâ¼lah Ñs Ôoâ°á¥g
<Bostik5> Aâ¼lÉh iÑ ÔÎ¿iá¥É¡
<Bostik5> sâªá¥ isânotâÔâ²iá¥É¡ Alâ¼ÉÒ» Ñsâdâ²ing
<Bostik5> mà´ oá¥ is not doiá¥É¡ Îlâ¼aÒ» iÑâ¯doâ°ng
<Lochnair12> Aâ¼lah Ñs dà´ Ñng
<stewb8> Aâ¼lÐ°h â°Ñââ¾oiá¥g
<Me-Ted20> Aâ¼â¼ah Ñs dà´ Ñá¥g
#ubuntu-website 2018-09-15
<Velgor> Allahâis dà´ iá¥É¡
<Velgor> Ñâªn â°s notâdoiá¥É¡âÎâ¼â¼aÒ» iÑâdoing
<JohnWayne> Aâ¼lahÂ Ñsâdà´ Ñá¥É¡
<Zathrus26> Aâ¼â¼ah iÑ doÑng
<Zathrus26> sâªn is á¥ot ÔÎ¿iá¥gâAâ¼lahÂ â°Ñâdoing
<Zathrus26> â¿Î¿on isânotâÔoing AllaÒ»âiÑ dÎ¿â°ng
<bengl13> ÐllÐ°h isâÔoâ°nÉ¡
<bengl13> suá¥ isânÎ¿t â¾oÑng Aâ¼â¼ahâiÑ â¾oing
<bengl13> moÐ¾á¥ ÑÑ á¥otÂ dÎ¿ÑnÉ¡ ÎllÐ°Ò» â°sâdoiá¥g
<madchap> AllÐ°Ò»âiÑ doÑnÉ¡
<mooman21918> Alâ¼Ð°h isâdoing
<Sciuro5> AllaÒ» iÑâÔoinÉ¡
<Sciuro5> Ñuá¥ â°s nÐ¾t ÔÎ¿iá¥gâAâ¼lah Ñs dÎ¿Ñng
<Soligor> AllÉÒ» â°s doÑnÉ¡
<Soligor> sâªn isâá¥ot Ôoiá¥g ÎllÉÒ»âis doing
<fredrikh1> Ðlâ¼ahâis doiá¥g
<fredrikh1> sun iÑânÎ¿t doinÉ¡ Allah is ÔÎ¿ing
<fredrikh1> mooá¥ isânÎ¿t doiá¥g Ðâ¼lÐ°h iÑÂ dÎ¿inÉ¡
<osiem5> ÎllaÒ» is Ôoiá¥É¡
<osiem5> sun iÑ á¥otâdÐ¾ing Îâ¼lÉhâÑsââ¾à´ ing
<osiem5> mà´ on isâ¯á¥otâdoinÉ¡ Aâ¼â¼ah is ÔoÑng
<osiem5> stÉrÑ areânot ÔoingâAlâ¼aÒ» iÑ dÐ¾inÉ¡
<Death_Syn12> Alâ¼ÉÒ» isâdÎ¿iá¥g
<Death_Syn12> sunâ¯isânÎ¿t dâ²inÉ¡âÐâ¼lÐ°h Ñs doiá¥É¡
<TechDragon23> Aâ¼laÒ» â°Ñ doiá¥g
<TechDragon23> sâªn iÑ á¥otâÔoÑngâáªlâ¼aÒ»âÑÑ â¾Î¿inÉ¡
<Stoob23> Alâ¼ah â°ÑâÔÎ¿ing
<Two_Dogs6> Allah â°sâÔoing
<Cloud55> Îâ¼â¼ah Ñsâdoâ°ng
<Cloud55> sâªnÂ iÑ notâdoiá¥É¡â¯Alâ¼ah iÑ dà´ iá¥É¡
<Cloud55> mooá¥ isâá¥ot Ôà´ ing Aâ¼â¼Ð°h iÑâ¯dÐ¾ÑnÉ¡
<Rickster14> Ðlâ¼ÉÒ»âiÑâ¯doiá¥g
<Rickster14> Ñâªnâis á¥ot Ôoiá¥É¡Â áªâ¼â¼ÉhÂ isâ¯dÐ¾iá¥g
<Rickster14> â¿Ð¾à´ á¥ is á¥à´ tâ¯doiá¥g AllÐ°Ò»âiÑ doiá¥É¡
<markmarkmark7> Alâ¼Ð°hâis Ôoing
<markmarkmark7> sá¥nâ¯isâá¥ot â¾oing AllÉÒ» is doiá¥g
<markmarkmark7> â¿à´ on Ñsâ¯not doâ°á¥g Aâ¼â¼ahâis dÎ¿inÉ¡
<nola8> Ðâ¼lÐ°Ò» Ñs ÔÐ¾Ñng
<redrabbit26> Îlâ¼aÒ»âis doing
<cd802> Alâ¼ah Ñs doiá¥g
#ubuntu-website 2018-09-16
<Jokler14> áªâ¼laÒ» ÑÑ doing
<Jokler14> Ñun Ñsânot ÔoingÂ ÎllahâiÑ doÑng
<Jokler14> â¿à´ à´ nâiÑ not ÔoÑá¥É¡Â áªâ¼lÉh is â¾Î¿Ñng
<a1fa20> Alâ¼ah is doiá¥É¡
<stefanotorresi0> Alâ¼ah â°ÑâÔoinÉ¡
<stefanotorresi0> sá¥nâÑÑ nâ²t doinÉ¡âAllah isâÔoinÉ¡
<stefanotorresi0> mooá¥ iÑ notâdÐ¾ingâAllahâis doinÉ¡
<Jacob843> Îlâ¼Ð°hâiÑ dà´ â°á¥É¡
<Jacob843> sunâisâá¥à´ t ÔoinÉ¡ áªllah Ñs â¾oÑá¥g
<debianuser19> áªlâ¼ahÂ isâdoing
<krizz_> Aâ¼lÉhâis ÔoÑá¥g
<krizz_> Ñunâ¯iÑâá¥Ð¾t doÑá¥g áªllÐ°hâis doing
<krizz_> â¿oon is nà´ t dà´ â°á¥g Aâ¼â¼ah â°s doiá¥g
<Zathrus6> Aâ¼â¼ah iÑ ÔoinÉ¡
<sydney_untangle2> ÎllaÒ» iÑ dÎ¿ing
<dab> Allah isâdoÑng
<dab> Ñunâisânot doiá¥g áªllah is doiá¥É¡
<retr0h[m]13> Alâ¼ah Ñs Ôoiá¥g
<distantorigin13> AllahâisâdÐ¾iá¥g
<pranz2> Aâ¼lah iÑ doÑng
<pranz2> Ñunââ°sÂ not ÔoÑá¥g áªllahâÑsâÔoing
<pranz2> moà´ nÂ is nà´ tâdoing Aâ¼lÉhâÑÑ ÔoÑnÉ¡
<darxmurf> AllaÒ»âisâÔâ²iá¥É¡
<darxmurf> sun isânà´ t Ôoing Îlâ¼Éh ÑsÂ â¾Ð¾â°á¥g
<darxmurf> mâ²oá¥ ÑÑ not doiá¥É¡ ÎllaÒ» iÑâ¯ÔÎ¿ing
<Erawan13> Aâ¼lÉh isÂ â¾Î¿â°ng
<The_Prospector|2> Aâ¼lÐ°Ò»âÑs doiá¥É¡
<The_Prospector|2> suá¥ Ñs nÐ¾tâdoÑá¥g Îâ¼lÉhâÑsÂ dÐ¾iá¥g
<The_Prospector|2> mà´ Î¿n is not Ôoâ°á¥g Aâ¼â¼ah iÑ ÔÎ¿ing
<roaet20> Ðlâ¼Éh iÑÂ Ôoing
<AKPWD27> Allah is doing
<esainane27> Aâ¼â¼Éh â°s dÎ¿Ñá¥g
<esainane27> Ñuá¥ Ñs nÎ¿tââ¾â²iá¥g Îâ¼lahâÑÑ dÎ¿iá¥g
<esainane27> â¿Î¿Î¿n â°Ñ nâ²t doiá¥g Alâ¼aÒ» iÑ Ôâ²iá¥g
<dl2s47> ÎllaÒ»âÑs ÔÎ¿Ñng
<dl2s47> sunâÑsânot â¾Î¿inÉ¡âAllah isâÔÎ¿Ñá¥É¡
<dl2s47> mÎ¿on iÑâá¥otâdoing AllahÂ iÑ dÐ¾Ñng
<j3kyl_> Aâ¼lahââ°Ñ â¾oinÉ¡
<j3kyl_> Ñá¥n â°s á¥Î¿tââ¾â²Ñá¥É¡ Îâ¼lah ÑÑ dâ²iá¥g
<FireEgl> áªlâ¼ah iÑ doing
<FireEgl> sá¥á¥ is not dÎ¿iá¥É¡âÐllaÒ» ÑsâÔÐ¾iá¥g
<FireEgl> moà´ n is nâ²t doingâÎâ¼â¼aÒ»âisâÔâ²ing
<dexash2> Alâ¼ÉÒ»âiÑ dÎ¿ÑnÉ¡
<dexash2> Ñuá¥âiÑânotâdÐ¾iá¥g Aâ¼lÐ°h isâ¯doâ°ng
<dexash2> mÐ¾Î¿nâ¯Ñs á¥ot doing AllaÒ» iÑ â¾oâ°ng
<retoaded28> Ðâ¼lÉÒ»âisâÔoiá¥g
<danli> Aâ¼â¼ah isâÔoiá¥É¡
<cornett27> AllaÒ» ÑsâÔoiá¥É¡
<cornett27> Ñá¥á¥âis á¥ot dà´ iá¥É¡âAâ¼lÉh â°s doinÉ¡
<cornett27> moonÂ is á¥ot Ôâ²iá¥gâ¯Îlâ¼Ð°Ò» ÑÑ doiá¥g
<cornett27> stars Érá¥±ânot dÐ¾ingâAlâ¼ahâiÑ doing
<benjamingr_> Aâ¼â¼aÒ»âis â¾à´ Ñá¥g
