#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-22
<volvoguy> *poke* anybody awake?
<ogra_> *yawn*
<volvoguy> :)
<ogra_> just waking up
<volvoguy> any idea how i can "ungzip" a folder of svgz files into plain svg files?
<volvoguy> i'm trying to get an overview of some of the more complete themes and nautilus can't seem to do thumbnails of svgz files. :-\
<ogra_> hmm, never had such a format, i guess inkscape can open them right away without unzipping
<volvoguy> yeah. inkscape can open them directly.... but there's lots of 'em. perhaps inkscape can "open > save as" recursively on the command line?
<volvoguy> i'll go pick their brains on #ubuntu also. :)
<ogra_> try it...
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> try #ubuntu-devel, someone might have a script from the top of his head
<volvoguy> okey dokey. thanks ogra_ 
<volvoguy> back to icons and hopefully sleep soon. thanks for the direction ogra_ :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-23
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:AndyFitz] : ubuntu font in development http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:AndyFitz] : Ubuntu font in development. See  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/Ubuntu-Title.ttf
<kafeine> khm
<kafeine> i was thinking yesterday about some stuff
<kafeine> how we could ease the transitions between the bootsplash, usplash, gnomesplash, whatnotsplash and the wallpaper
<kafeine> maybe we could just make them all the same
<kafeine> the same color for backdrop, wheter its solid or gradient
<kafeine> and a centralised ubuntu logo
<kafeine> which can be cropped in the gnomesplash, for example
<kafeine> and still it would look nice if the wallpaper is changed
<kafeine> mm, and we _could_ make some different color sets of these, probably based on some of volvoguy's wallpapers
<kafeine> anyway, what's up with the art.ubuntu.com?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-27
<AndyFitz> wiki updated
<HiddenWolf> look at that!
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-08-28
<crodrigue> Hello
<crodrigue> Anyone there?  I have news re: pixel cleanups on the Humanity Icon Set
<megabyte405> i'm here
<megabyte405> but I haven't done anything with it
<crodrigue> ...?
<crodrigue> I didn't know you were supposed to.  Last time I was on this channel, I volunteered.
<crodrigue> I was using the link (http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/humility-icons.tar.bz2) to grab the latest set.
<crodrigue> I have now completed icon cleanups for all the icons in that tar.bz2, unless the tar.bz2 has been chanced since I started working on them.
<crodrigue> *changed, not chanced.
<crodrigue> Anyway.  I was wondering: where do I upload my contribution?
<crodrigue> I already have my contribution here: http://www.worlord.com/misc/GonzO-Humility.tar.gz , but I was wondering if there was a special place I had to put it for the rest of the team to get it.
<crodrigue> ...hello?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-21
<Viper550> Hello.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-22
<PingunZ> !seen fschoep
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> hi lapo
<Madpilot> hi all
<Madpilot> http://www.warbard.ca/temp/ChthulhubuntuLogo.png
<Madpilot> sorry, http://www.warbard.ca/temp/CthulhubuntuLogo.png
<PingunZ> Madpilot: what is the point of that ?
<Madpilot> I don't know
<Madpilot> does it need a point? ;)
<PingunZ> ^^
<PingunZ> I mean, is it a DE or a version of ubuntu you made ?
<PingunZ> or just you toying around with gimp ? :p
<Madpilot> No, just a joke - someone made  "Cthulhubuntu" joke on IRC last night, I was messing with the GIMP this evening :)
<troy_s> greets kwwii_, how goes the sprint?
<kwwii_> troy_s: great, thanks :-)
<kwwii_> getting lots of stuff done
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-23
<PingunZ_> hey how can I answer a mail of ubuntu-art so that everyone gets it ?
<PingunZ_> cause when I reply I only send it to one person
<lapo> hi
<PingunZ> hey, can someone tell me how I can answer a ubuntu-art mail ?
<PingunZ> cause when I try, I just reply to one person :s
<andreasn> hi PingunZ
<andreasn> what is your mail client?
<PingunZ> hey andreasn
<PingunZ> just gmail on firefox
<PingunZ> the site itself
<PingunZ> I dont use a program for my mails
<andreasn> all you need to do is fill out ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com in the To: -field
<andreasn> as far as I know
<PingunZ> ok I'll try :)
<PingunZ> thanks ;)
<PingunZ> btw, Mark Shuttleworth is the ubuntu-founder right ?
<andreasn> yeah, he kinds of own canonial
<PingunZ> nice :)
<andreasn> if he would stay away from graphics design, yes :)
<andreasn> nah, now I'm just trolling ;)
<PingunZ> hehe :)
<PingunZ> with what can I help ubuntu-art the most ( right now )
<PingunZ> just not icons, I hate icons :p
<andreasn> PingunZ: I don't know about ubuntu-art, as I'm mostly just lurking here and can't keep up with the mailing list any longer
<andreasn> but we need a nice image for gnome.org for the 2.16 release, if you are interested in that kind of stuff
<PingunZ> What exactly do you mean with an image for gnome.org
<andreasn> for the front page, a big image to link to the release notes
<PingunZ> ok : front page to what ? and release notes of gnome 2.16  ? and what should be on the image ?
<PingunZ> I'd like to make that :)
<andreasn> the first page on gnome.org
<PingunZ> you mean that I can make an image for the index of gnome.org ?
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> if you feel like it
<PingunZ> O_o
<PingunZ> ok :)
<andreasn> note that I have no idea how good you are ;)
<PingunZ> like this one : http://www.gnome.org/img/flash/bug-hunt-wgo.png ?
<andreasn> yes, something like that
<PingunZ> cool
<PingunZ> but thats not really ubuntu-helpful ..
<PingunZ> bah, np I'll make one :)
<andreasn> well, considering ubuntu is part of the gnome ecosystem, perhaps it is
<PingunZ> :)
<andreasn> after all, it's just a distro :)
<PingunZ> what I need is : image size, .png ? , what should be on the image ?
<andreasn> nah, that was a troll :)
<PingunZ> and can I use photoshop ?
<andreasn> you can use whatever you want
<PingunZ> yay :)
<andreasn> as long as you provide me with a nice pic
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> and the image size ?
<andreasn> hold on
<PingunZ> k :)
<andreasn> 740x300
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> and  what should I put on the image ?
<andreasn> feel free to do whatever you like
<PingunZ> but it is for gnome 2.16
<PingunZ> ok :)
<andreasn> perhaps something you think is THE coolest thing about gnome 2.16
<PingunZ> white background ?
<andreasn> sure
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/214-splash.png
<andreasn> this is what we did for 2.14
<PingunZ> ok :)
<PingunZ> and I make it all myself ?
<andreasn> sure, do whatever you want
<PingunZ> ok :)
<andreasn> and if it's good we put it up
<PingunZ> I'll draw a mockup on a sheet of paper :)
<PingunZ> any help for the text, my english isn't really great..
<andreasn> pop by #gnome-art or #marketing on gimpnet and I'm sure someone can help you
<andreasn> I'm not good with copywriting myself
<PingunZ> :)
<PingunZ> Ok what do you think about : Simply Powerful
<andreasn> sounds good to me :)
<PingunZ> ok
<PingunZ> I'll make it in photoshop so I can edit it :)
<andreasn> http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/ReleaseNotes
<PingunZ> andreasn: you there ?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-24
<Viper550> I've been working on some new Kubuntu stuffs for Edgy
<andreasn> hey Viper550!
<andreasn> how did that mindstorms icon go?
<Viper550> They suggested removing the back and making it just the stylized portion. But, I'm not here to think about robots!
<andreasn> they? do you mean me, on the list
<andreasn> ?
<Viper550> Yeah, on the list
<andreasn> man that mindstorms-stuff looks neat, I love lego
<andreasn> I wish I had some, but it's stuffed away in my fathers barn somewhere
<Viper550> Watch out, NXT barely uses bricks anymore! It's more studs and stuff...
<Viper550> But anyway, here is what I'm working on for Kubuntu theme wise:
<andreasn> ugh, I hate it when it's all specialy-specialy-shit
<andreasn> I want more basic bricks!
<Viper550> !language
<Viper550> Oh wait, there's no Ubotu in here...
<andreasn> and a darth vader figure ;)
<Viper550> Okay, anyway, I finished up a new color scheme with the new palette...
<Viper550> And for KDE styles, I thought we'd try QtCurve instead of Lipstik, it's customizable, and can also skin GTK apps with it's engine! Most Kubuntu users usually download Firefox and notice that it doesn't look very good. This, will solve all our problems!
<Viper550> Also, I'm using the Keramik window decoration, with how I've got QtCurve setup, it actually looks like the menubar and the window decoration are fused together!
<Viper550> Hello
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> anyone know how to make a screenshot from gdm or kdm?
<lapo> kwiii xnest?
<kwwii> lapo: no luck with that yet
<lapo> vmware
<kwwii> re
<troy_s> kwwii use xnest
<kwwii> troy_s: which does not work with kdm
<troy_s> ach -- really?
<kwwii> nor does xserver-xephyr
<kwwii> we made a crappy version by using gdm and the kubuntu xml file
<kwwii> but now I simply faked it :-)
<troy_s> only tried it for gdm -- that's unfortunate that it doesn't work for kdm
<troy_s> what bones it?
<troy_s> how's weis kwwii?
<imbrandon> hrm troy_s you seen newz today ?
<imbrandon> afk, if you see him can you have him ping me
<troy_s> not yet...
<troy_s> absolutely
<imbrandon> kk
<imbrandon> thanks
<troy_s> how are things ?
<troy_s> did you get that issue resolved?
<imbrandon> went to go upload the drupal stuff to the staging site and its not working
<troy_s> wb kwwii_
<troy_s> eek
<imbrandon> nah thats why i was gonna ping him
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> infact i went to go change the top part of art.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> just a second ago
<imbrandon> thats when i noticed the ssh info wasent right
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ( you know the disclaimer that was talked about a few days ago on the list )
<imbrandon> Ken you should have them get you a better connection in Weisban ( sp? )
<imbrandon> anyhow troy_s thanks for pokin him if he shows arround today ;)
<troy_s> np, off to work shortly here...
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> just curious , what is your "day" job ?
<imbrandon> hehe
<troy_s> motion picture industry.
<kwwii_> this isp sucks
<kwwii_> they reboot the router like every half an hour
<cbx33> oo-bun-to or You-bun-to
<kwwii_> Kuh-bun-too
<cbx33> oooh kwwii_
<cbx33> I needed to speak to you
<kwwii_> howdy
<kwwii_> I guess I can listen :-)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> about sounds for kde
<cbx33> have you been following the sound discussion?
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/finals
<cbx33> I think sample2 FINAL, Mark wondered if you liked that for kubuntu?
<kwwii_> yes, I have
<kwwii_> to be honest, I have followed the mails, but not listened to the sounds :P
<kwwii_> I will do that now
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> the top ones the FINALS
<cbx33> are the ones we chose as the best
<cbx33> but what's best for U might not be best for K
<kwwii_> hrm
<kwwii_> I'm checking it out now
<cbx33> ok
<troy_s> isn't it Boooooon
<kwwii_> cbx33: hrm, to be honest they are a bit too busy for my tastes
<kwwii_> the sound we use now is very simple and short
<kwwii_> I like attemp6 the best, but I would suggest removing the high tones at the beginning and end (they sound like bugs flying around to me)
<cbx33> kwwii_, heheh
<kwwii_> sorry for the critic, but I would rather be honest than play around with niceties that only hurt peoples feelings in the long run
<cbx33> kwwii_, that's fine
<cbx33> if you wanna stick with what you have for now
<cbx33> I have no p[roblem with that
<kwwii_> well, unless you are in the mood to simplify attempt6 I guess that would be the best idea
<cbx33> i can try
<cbx33> I'm just in my studio at the mo
<cbx33> so I can give it a go in a min
<kwwii_> cool, thanks :-)
<cbx33> hi fschoep
<cbx33> :)
<fschoep> Hi, how are you doing cbx33?
<cbx33> yeh good u?
<fschoep> Doing fine even though I'm in Germany :)
<cbx33> oh you at a sprint?
<fschoep> Yes I am, sitting right next to Kenneth actually.
<kwwii_> frank is sitting next to me (for whatever reason he keeps holding my hand)
<kwwii_> :p
<cbx33> heheh
<kwwii_> damn it frank! get your hand off my knee!
<kwwii_> you gotta watch these liberal dutchmen
<cbx33> frank did you see the logout sounds?
<fschoep> I saw the e-mail but haven't listened to them yet. Maybe I'll just do that right now.
<fschoep> Oh, they're oggs.
<fschoep> Can you post some MP3's ;)
<cbx33> categorically no :p
<cbx33> i get told of when i post mp3s :p
<cbx33> yeh ican do that
<fschoep> OK, thanks :)
<cbx33> you not on linux?
<cbx33> you should get mplayer :p
<fschoep> I'm on OS X right now.
<cbx33> refresh fschoep
<cbx33> i havn;t worked on the thin theme yet as I wanted a logout noise first for each
<fschoep> OK, give me a minute.
<cbx33> np
<fschoep> Do you have an overview page URL handy?
<fschoep> The email I have has three links to Oggs I think.
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/finals
<fschoep> Hey, thanks.
<fschoep> I'll be back later on, thanks Pete,
<Viper550> Has anyone here seen my new Kubuntu mockup?
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=qtcurve_keramik.png
<kwwii_> Viper550: well, blue curve is a redhat thing, not too sure if we want to use that in kubuntu
<Viper550> Bluecurve?
<kwwii_> QtCurve is the Qt version of bluecurve, or?
<Viper550> This is a different QtCurve
<Viper550> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=40492
<kwwii_> yeah, I just saw that
<kwwii_> hrm, we can think about it
<kwwii_> can you post that on the wiki page for kubuntu?
<Viper550> It themes both Qt and GTK apps, and I did post it
<Viper550> Also, I haven't seen many distros using Keramik lately...
<Viper550> (although, the recently released Xandros Desktop 4 uses it as their default window border)
<Viper550> I noticed that the Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas page is a bit too graphics intensive to load smoothly
<Viper550> Nice job on Kubuntu so far!
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-25
<Viper550> Hello
<troy_s> kwwii_, fschoep around?
<kwwii_> moin
<kwwii_> hi troy_s
<fschoep> troy_s: I'm here.
<cbx33> ping fschoep
<fschoep> hi
<cbx33> how are you
<fschoep> Fine, thanks. You?
<cbx33> yeh good
<cbx33> progbox.co.uk/finals
<cbx33> there is a new one....for the boot up sounds :p
<cbx33> just a quick ideas test
<fschoep> OK, hold on - it's loading kind of slow for
<fschoep> me
<fschoep> I still see the old ones?
<fschoep> three final-samples and eleven samples
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> in the eleven there is one called
<cbx33> boot or smething
<fschoep> I think I don't see it on my side of the universe?
<cbx33> no...
<cbx33> me neither that's odd
<cbx33> hang on
<fschoep> OK
<cbx33> ok it;s there now
<fschoep> Great, have you got an MP3 ;) ?
<cbx33> I'll make on hang on
<fschoep> Yesterday I used Audacity in Dapper to convert them, I could do that again but I'd need to reboot for it.
<fschoep> So, thanks if you do it
<cbx33> done
<fschoep> Wow, that's fast, thanks
<fschoep> Ah, this short sound should be played on boot, like the Mac "bong"?
<cbx33> yes
<fschoep> Well, it'd certainly fit in there
<fschoep> Did you use one of the final-samples as a base theme for it?
<cbx33> no not really....
<DrDoom> o_O
<fschoep> Hey DrDoom what's happening
<DrDoom> fschoep, nothing much
<fschoep> OK
<DrDoom> I'm trying to theme like some of these people on the ubuntuforums gallery ;)
<fschoep> Hehe
<DrDoom> It's not working very well :)
<fschoep> It isn't?
<fschoep> It's probably hard to find tutorials?
<DrDoom> nah, they are too good
<DrDoom> yeah
<fschoep> I know the problem
<fschoep> We're having some trouble with this in the artwork team itself as well.
<DrDoom> It's hard getting a good theme.
<DrDoom> Or at least shaping one.
<fschoep> Indeed
<fschoep> Creating mockups is easy, but implementing is difficult.
<fschoep> I do have some links for you if you want
<DrDoom> Oh yes.
<fschoep> It's not much, but here you go:
<fschoep> GTK2:
<fschoep> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
<fschoep> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkEngines
<fschoep> Metacity:
<fschoep> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
<fschoep> GDM:
<fschoep> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GdmThemes
<fschoep> If you enjoy creating themes, you might consider applying for doing a theme for Edgy +1?
<DrDoom> Interesting.
<DrDoom> fschoep, I'd need to practice creating them more for that =)
<fschoep> DrDoom: no you don't :) We've got people doing some with all kinds of experience levels :)
<fschoep> Doing something is the best way of learning it :)
<DrDoom> True.
<DrDoom> Why are you guys in need of people?
<fschoep> Why?
<DrDoom> Just wondering.
<fschoep> Basically because we've got big plans!
<fschoep> And we're working hard on getting those done.
<DrDoom> I liked the Dapper theme.
<fschoep> That's good!
<fschoep> We're refining it a bit for Edgy but it won't change too much.
<DrDoom> Aw, I was hoping it was going to be even better!
<fschoep> At least, the GTK2 theme won't change much.
<fschoep> We're making it better, gradually.
<DrDoom> I like how it ships with GNOME.
<fschoep> I see.
<fschoep> Have you got good ideas for polishing the GTK theme?
<DrDoom> I'd have to think about that more, I am constantly unsatisfied when it comes to the UI.
<DrDoom> lol
<fschoep> Hehe :0
<fschoep> Would you like doing some artwork for Edgy?
<DrDoom> fschoep, possibly...i'm not too awake right now though
<fschoep> We're working on designs for the usplash, login manager theme, login splash and wallpaper. We can use your help :)
<DrDoom> i am on because i could not sleep that well
<DrDoom> Ah, one thing that I don't really like is the login manager theme.
<fschoep> Would you consider joining the artwork team?
<fschoep> It doesn't take much, just some skills with graphical design.
<DrDoom> I would, but I can't promise anything.
<fschoep> No problem, we're all volunteers, so don't worry.
<DrDoom> Hehe, pretty amazing product that comes out of volunteers.
<DrDoom> Most people expect the $$$
<fschoep> Thanks :)
<fschoep> A good start would be joining the artwork mailing list and probably adding yourself to the ubuntu-art team on Launchpad.
<DrDoom> fschoep, so where do you stand in all this?
<fschoep> I'm the "Artist in Chief" for Edgy.
<fschoep> So I kind of lead everyone through the whole process of getting the artwork done.
<DrDoom> Wow, impressive.
<cbx33> fschoep, is doing an excellent job
<cbx33> he's great to work for :p
<fschoep> Hehe, thanks cbx33 :)
<cbx33> well I really mean it dude, your encouragement and comments help me make great art :p
<fschoep> OK, thanks - it's almost embarrassing :)
<DrDoom> ha
* cbx33 watches fschoep blush
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> then poits and laughs....hehehe :p
<irawan> leave
<DrDoom> fschoep, I'm very tired now....I will come back in and talk tomorrow ok?
<cbx33> cool DrDoom
<DrDoom> Goodnight all!
<fschoep> DrDoom: sure, we'll be here all times you expect us to be!
<fschoep> I hope he got that :)
<troy_s> fschoep
<troy_s> ping fschoep
<troy_s> middle of morn here.
<kwwii__> one second, I told him
<troy_s> greets kwwii__
<kwwii__> howdy troy_s
<Cadet> Hi.
<troy_s> lil groggy here... where the hell is franko
<troy_s> greetings cadet
<troy_s> how are you doing?
<Cadet> thank's, i'm doing good thank's
<Cadet> so you guys do all the ubuntu artwork eh?
<troy_s> well actually the bulk of the artwork thus far
<troy_s> has been paid for and created by others.
<troy_s> kwwii__: is he close to you?
<kwwii__> yeah, he is sitting behind me
<troy_s> behind you???
<kwwii__> but he said he won't go into chat before lunch
<troy_s> diff table no doubt i hope :)
<kwwii__> so it'll be an hour or two
<troy_s> call him a weiner for me
<troy_s> grr.
<troy_s> okie... well i guess i'll go back to sleep.
<troy_s> did shuttlebot show up at weis?
<troy_s> kwwii__: tell him i'll try to be back in a while, if i wake up again (late call today)
<kwwii__> yepp, mark was here until this morning
<kwwii__> we all went out last night
<kwwii__> I will tell him
<troy_s> goot.
<troy_s> out for a while.
<kwwii__> have fun :-)
<Madpilot> when did Mark aquire the nickname "shuttlebot"?
<kwwii__> hehehe
<kwwii__> I did not say that :p
<lloydinho> hey kwwii_ - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment
<kwwii_> lloydinho: thanks man
<lloydinho> be sure to check out the smilies - they're a hoot!
<kwwii_> :-)
<msikma> Yeah man, that is one awesome icon set
<msikma> I especially like that all the icons have custom-made shadows as opposed to an auto-generated one.
<msikma> It does bother me that they face to the left. I've learned that, if given the choice, you should always make something face to the right, into writing direction.
<msikma> But that's a minor gripe.
<lapo> that icon theme is coming along nicelly I'm happy they are using our metaphors
<troy_s> fschoep:
<fschoep> troy_s: Hi, what's up?
<troy_s> there he is...
<lapo> http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/thos/navx.png I tweaked up go-home a bit is it better?
<lapo> uhm...sorry wrong win
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-26
<Mjateznik> Hi
<PingunZ> Hey all, I bought a camera yesterday :) Soon I'll shoot the wallpapers of ubuntu ( lol )
<msikma> Why is it that art-related discussion revolving some of the important aspects of the design (e.g. the GTK theme) stop so quickly and often?
<msikma> Mark sent me some criticism via the list and I responded to it. One point he brought up contradicted something he said earlier and it would be nice to have some clarity on it.
<PingunZ> hmm.. ask it again ?
<PingunZ> ( stupid answer sorry ;) )
<msikma> I mailed him back. Don't know what else I can do.
<PingunZ> I'm new to this, but AFAIK mail is the only thing we have.
<PingunZ> and this *dead* irc channel
<PingunZ> sorry if I offend anyone with that :)
<msikma> I hate the process of this thing. We should just switch to, for example, MediaWiki software to do the bulk of the discussion and the archiving of material.
<PingunZ> msikma: have you read my proposal ?
<msikma> Nope.
<PingunZ> A forum ..
<PingunZ> I'll see if I can find the mail
<msikma> Just switching to _any_ wiki that does not use a stupid flat file database would be nice though!
<msikma> I would like a forum, too.
<msikma> Just anything is better than moinsmoins or whatever it's called.
<PingunZ> frank liked the idea, but he appears to have forgotten it :)
<PingunZ> well as a beginner I can tell you, It's kinda hard to know where to start :)
<PingunZ> msikma: I sent you the mail ;)
<msikma> I still don't know much about Launchpad and all that.
<msikma> It would be so much better if we were to simply focus more on the artwork. I think there is way too little discussion about actual art going on.
<PingunZ> Its just a concept, ...
<msikma> I think that a forum can't replace _everything_ in the artwork cycle, such as Launchpad, but it would certainly be very useful to look up things this way.
<msikma> Like where certain artwork proposals are.
<msikma> And you don't usually delete stuff on a forum, whereas a lot of stuff was deleted from the wiki (to KEEP IT CLEAN or some nonsense like that), resulting in me reading my backlogs and finding that almost none of the mentioned wiki pages still existed.
<PingunZ> true msikma, a forum is also more user-friendly
<msikma> I don't think people will work harder just because they're on a forum, though.
<PingunZ> msikma: they dont have to work harder, the work is there. Its just not organised
<PingunZ> also a forum is waaay more attractive to new users then a wiki
<msikma> I feel that the reorganization of Ubuntu artwork production, which started with this cycle, has caused a gigantic amount of unnecessary red tape.
<PingunZ> and the ' Karma ' does something :)
<msikma> Karma is probably the most worthless and elitist thing ever invented for forums, I'd say.
<PingunZ> msikma: I like it, it makes you act as friendly as possible. Makes you work harder :)
<msikma> It also makes people suck up a lot more. I've made probably around 30000 posts on various forums throughout the years and have almost always loathed it.
<PingunZ> loathed == ?
<PingunZ> My english is kinda bad :)
<PingunZ> I'll modify the idea a little, now that I have more experience..
<PingunZ> but IMO ubuntu needs a re-organistion. A lot of great work is done on ubuntuforums but the devs are not active there.
<msikma> Loathed == verafschuwd
<msikma> Yeah, we just went through a reorganization :)
<msikma> At the beginning of this cycle.
<PingunZ> I'm really sure more people would like to help with artwork but its just to confusing for beginners
<msikma> But I'd say that the ones who structured this reorganization were so afraid of things going wrong that they made the whole thing _too_ organized.
<PingunZ> Do you mean this is organised ?
<msikma> It's not just confusing for beginners. It's confusing for me too, and I've been here for some time now. I just want to make artwork because I feel the current artwork is not good enough for a contending operating system.
<msikma> I don't want to have to learn how to use complicated content management systems.
<PingunZ> that's not really organised IMO :)
<msikma> PingunZ: it's organized alright, just not organized properly. It's organized only to those who fully understand how everything works. And not enough weight is being put on a failsafe method of communication: the mailing list.
<msikma> It shows when Mark commentates on artwork (and if he says no to artwork, it means the artwork isn't getting in no matter who else complains), and then the artist mails him back stating that his criticism is slightly vague and comes up with counterarguments, but then doesn't get a response to that, that the mailing list isn't being monitored enough.
<msikma> It's just all terribly confusing.
<msikma> I don't know. Maybe I'm at fault here and everyone else is doing fine.
<PingunZ> msikma: there is the mailing list, wiki, launchpad. I dont really think that any beginner would think that is organised. Seriously, when Frank asked me to join I didn'twant to because of the mails I'd get ( not knowing what to do with them )
<msikma> Well, in some way, it is very organized.
<msikma> But organization doesn't mean efficiency.
<PingunZ> I'm going to send the Forum Idea ( once its modified ) to the whole mailing list ( if that is allowed ). And see if people like it :)
<msikma> Like I said, I think there's just too much red tape (paperwork) involved for anyone to want to deal with.
<PingunZ> true :)
<PingunZ> Ubuntu-art is not efficient, I think everone agrees on that...
<PingunZ> * or could be more efficient
<PingunZ> I'll make a whole text with some plans tonight :)
<PingunZ> and once I see fschoep here again, I'll ping him about it ;)
<msikma> There are just way too many low-level rules that make conducting affairs slower and more difficult. There are too many people involved in the tiniest of things. I don't really believe in the editing of other people's source art.
<msikma> I most certainly don't believe in non-artists discussing artwork, too, but I guess that's really inevitable.
<PingunZ> non-artist --> normal ubuntu users, should discuss artwork too since they are the one who use it.
<PingunZ> But I dont know if they should discuss it in the same place then the artists
<msikma> They can have a lot of useful information about what is usable, but generally, they don't really know what looks good unless they themselves become actively involved in the art making process.
<msikma> I'd say that these days, too many people who just got [GIMP/Photoshop/other graphics manipulation program]  think they are a designer. They aren't. But still everybody has an opinion.
<PingunZ> well msikma I'm not a real designer myself.. :)
<msikma> I don't have anything to say about the process. But if I did: less middle management, less low-level rules, more discussion, more direction, more polish. Less concept.
<msikma> But you're interested in artwork, PingunZ. That sets you apart from most of the people I'm talking about who toss two or three filters over a photo they made and then call it artwork.
<msikma> Like, there's a certain kind of arrogance that I personally associate with those people.
<PingunZ> that's true msikma :)
<PingunZ> true again msikma
<msikma> Whereas you're just interested in artwork and surely won't be the worst contributor.
<msikma> I don't know. Maybe I'm just ranting too much.
<PingunZ> bah, atm I have just created a gdm based on Who's mockups
<msikma> I'm working on the GTK because of Mark's criticism.
<msikma> He had some valid criticism, but I didn't agree with some other stuff he said.
<PingunZ> Who should I mail about the forum-idea ?
<msikma> Like, he first says that he feels it "isn't saturated enough". Which is completely untrue, seen as how the saturation is way higher than the old theme. Then later he mails how he feels the colors are "too deep". That's contradictory to what he said earlier about saturation. I don't really get it.
<msikma> The list, I guess.
<PingunZ> msikma: I dont want to mail the whole list about such idea ..
<PingunZ> It first needs to be revised by a few ppl
<msikma> I don't know who should revise it.
<PingunZ> ok ..
<PingunZ> Well I'll start with modifying the text I sent to you ..
<msikma> Man. What to do with those scroll bars.
<PingunZ> Where msikma ?
<msikma> Hi
<msikma> I mean scroll bars in the GTK theme.
<msikma> Mark doesn't want me to use orange there. I don't really like it myself, either, and thus I must try to find another way out.
<msikma> I don't agree with Mark saying we shouldn't use orange for the grippies, though. It's an accent color alright, but that does mean we need to use it consistently.
<PingunZ> what are gripppies ?
<msikma> By the way, did you check out this site yet? http://www.guidebookgallery.org/
<msikma> The slider bars.
<PingunZ> what is on that site msikma ?
<PingunZ> and where can I see the GTK you made ?
<msikma> It's the most complete graphical user interface documentation site that I've found so far.
<msikma> It shows lots of screenshots from many different operating systems throughout the years.
<msikma> It's a nicely organized site, too.
<msikma> Also, here's my GTK as it is right now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming
<PingunZ> bah windows icons :p
<msikma> Windows icons?
<PingunZ> yes, on that site
<msikma> Well, whatever.
<msikma> There's a lot of useful things on that site.
<PingunZ> msikma: I've seen your GTK theme before
<PingunZ> Shall I tell you what I dislike about it ?
<PingunZ> and like :)
<PingunZ> or should I put it in a mail ?
<msikma> Yeah, feel free to.
<PingunZ> here or in a mail ?
<PingunZ> brb trying to take a pic
<msikma> In a mail, preferably, or on IRC here. Either will do fine.
<msikma> Actually, just do it in IRC. Then we can discuss it easier.
<PingunZ> ok :)
<PingunZ> I'll pm, so I can say it in dutch ;)
<msikma> asdf
<PingunZ> hey msikma
<msikma> Hi
<msikma> I made some slider bar changes
<PingunZ> show me :)
<msikma> http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/slider_test.png
<PingunZ> hmm :)
<PingunZ> its better but could be better :D
<PingunZ> I think the resuly would improve if you made the dots on the bars a little more visible
<troy_s> greetings all.
<PingunZ> bye troy_s
<troy_s> toodles pingunz.
<PingunZ> :)
<troy_s> Greetings Burgundavia
<msikma> http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/slider_test_1.png
<msikma> Like this then
<msikma> I still think the full orange ones are better. And more consistent.
<msikma> But I guess that if Mark says so, I probably have a better chance of getting it accepted this way.
<troy_s> Good stuff there sik.
<troy_s> I think the round radius isn't consistent with the existing roundness in the icons etc though... perhaps lessen the degree a bit?
<msikma> Icons?
<msikma> I don't really think that the rounding of widgets in the GTK theme pertains to any rounding in the icons.
<troy_s> Wow.  Strange.
<msikma> Yeah, strange that I would think so, eh.
<troy_s> It would seem that consistency is based around a coherance of systems, no?
<msikma> I could try arguing with you but it is no use so I'm just gonna continue working.
<troy_s> I am not arguing... you are just very reactionary to me and I apologize for that.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-08-27
<troy_s> hello pingunz.
<troy_s> how are you doing?
<PingunZ> fine :)
<PingunZ> you ?
<troy_s> Good thanks.
<troy_s> Frank says you have been quite busy.
<PingunZ> With what ?
<troy_s> Ubuntu Art involvement.
<PingunZ> And more specific ?
<troy_s> No, he wasn't.
<PingunZ> Cause I wasn't that busy IMO.
<PingunZ> troy_s: I saw your new GDM / splash mockups. They look nice ( a bit too dark IMO), I'd like to make them once they revised a little :)
<PingunZ> I like the general idea of a face-browser.
<troy_s> the dark is actually the default dapper wallpaper
<troy_s> yes, but by default a face browser has been declined.
<PingunZ> Why is that ?
<troy_s> i will be uploading the 2ndary palette shortly
<troy_s> once i get it into gpl format
<troy_s> because of security reasons
<troy_s> it is better for workstations to be configured for use with non face browsing.
<PingunZ> troy_s: A face browser still requires a password ..
<PingunZ> so it is safe
<PingunZ> IMO :)
<troy_s> not exactly
<troy_s> knowing what to logon as eliminates exactly 50% of the security effort.
<troy_s> and you can't rely on users passwords to be secure
<troy_s> which is why there has been plenty of discussion regarding that.
<PingunZ> Hmm
<PingunZ> I understand :)
<troy_s> indeed.
<troy_s> face browsers are to be optional
<troy_s> but again, that takes more xml work etc.
<troy_s> and i simply don' thave the time to accomodate anything except the default install look/feel
<PingunZ> yes, but it looks very nice
<troy_s> true, but i don't have the time to create two.
<PingunZ> hehe :)
<troy_s> i just updated the source files there
<PingunZ> I'll try to create one, I have some spare time
<troy_s> at the troy_s page below the primary
<PingunZ> and a little GDM-experience
<troy_s> they are quite easy, but my time is very limited.
<PingunZ> troy_s: once the buttons are finished I would like to make that GDM.
<PingunZ> If that is ok to you ?
<troy_s> completely fine, in fact
<troy_s> i encourage you to take the work and build on it
<troy_s> it is what we are seeking to develop in the art community currenlty
<PingunZ> I warn you, I'm un-experienced :)
<troy_s> blah
<troy_s> no harm in trying!
<troy_s> we have been trying _Very_ hard to build a collaborative structure
<troy_s> file formats and such get in the way, but I think we are making headway
<troy_s> send me your work via email, i would love to see it
<troy_s> and provide a face browser as an alternative
<PingunZ> yes, but you still have a big way to go
<troy_s> just give me your work with the temp buttons in or whatever
<troy_s> actually the gdm is quite easy to finish button wise
<troy_s> the collaboration factor will take more cycles to develop
<troy_s> and for people to understand
<troy_s> which is why it is important that if you can, try contributing.
<troy_s> base your work on the AiC's guidance
<PingunZ> AiC ?
<troy_s> and simply derive what you can at your given pace /leve
<troy_s> level
<troy_s> artist in chief
<troy_s> frank scheop
<PingunZ> I know him ;)
<troy_s> Indeed.
<troy_s> He has done _amazing_ structural work this term.
<troy_s> I hope he will be back for a 2nd.
<PingunZ> I havent seen him in a while ..
<troy_s> he is _very_ busy right now
<troy_s> deadlines are approaching fast
<troy_s> so we really need a full body of work in.
<troy_s> quickly.
<troy_s> i will try to get another palette out
<troy_s> and that might be the extent of my effort for this weekend.
<troy_s> the lighter palette is
<troy_s> similar to some of the things that were gathered on the summary page
<PingunZ> The lighter palette is for the gdm, .. ?
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006
<troy_s> for all of them
<troy_s> wall_02_troy
<troy_s> is close to it.
<troy_s> same design
<troy_s> but different palette
<troy_s> anyways, good luck
<troy_s> i look forward to anything you can manage
<troy_s> thanks pingunz.
<PingunZ> Well I'll need xara for that
<PingunZ> but my apt-get is broken atm :p
* PingunZ is on edgy
<troy_s> Eek.
<troy_s> You on a 32 bit system?
<troy_s> if so, you don't need apt
<troy_s> just go to www.xaraextreme.org
<troy_s> download the tarball
<troy_s> and run the binary
<troy_s> should work out of box
<PingunZ> ok :)
<troy_s> it is a very powerful program
<troy_s> i love it... and svg support is coming into the stream during this development cycle.
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [+o troy_s]  by ChanServ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:troy_s] : Welcome!  Current main page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/ -=-=- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork -=-=- IRC logs @ http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs -=-=- Current tasks for Edgy at http://www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs
* mode/#ubuntu-artwork [-o troy_s]  by troy_s
<troy_s> ls
<troy_s> Greetings Madpilot
<Madpilot> hi troy_s
<troy_s> How have things been with you?
<Madpilot> busy as heck
<troy_s> Understatement of the year award.
<troy_s> ;)
<Madpilot> heh. Some nice Edgy art coming in - wish I had time to do more than lurk on the artwork IRC channel ;)
<troy_s> hey mad
<troy_s> i just wanted to say
<troy_s> your cthulubuntu was awsome!
<troy_s> i loved it.
<troy_s> made me laugh my ass off.
<troy_s> it was sooooo coincidental because i was considering doing a halloween / april 1 set
<troy_s> with that sort of approach
<troy_s> Madpilot: do you think you could post your cthulubuntu lsplash to the artwork wiki?
<troy_s> I really thought it was hilarious.
<Madpilot> I could. Maybe I'll turn it into a proper theme set one of these days ;)
<Madpilot> Green ooze, tentacles & eyeballs
<troy_s> or something along those lines.
<alex_joni> hello, I want to build a custom artwork package for dapper. is there any stuff to start from ?
<alex_joni> can I simply make a deb that replaces the standard png's? (I am thinking about desktop background, splash screen etc.)
<kwwii> take the ubuntu-artwork package and modify the pngs in it
<kwwii> or for kubuntu, take the kubuntu-default-settings package and do the same
<kwwii> note that some of the pics are not in either of those packages though, so to do it 100% there is more work to it
<alex_joni> kwwii: thanks, however I am only trying to change the default background. Can I make a simple deb (I know how), and alter /var/lib/gconf/debian.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml ?
<alex_joni> kwwii: the only thing I'm concearned is: does that file get restored when I remove my package?
<kwwii> alex_joni: not sure...I would guess that it will leave the changes from your package or create some kind of error
<kwwii> to be honest, I know very little about packaging for gnome
<kwwii> looks like I have to exchange my powerbook battery :-(
* kwwii reboot to find out
<PingunZ> ping troy_s
<PingunZ> brb ( trying to make a skydome image )
<PingunZ> cool, I made a skydome :)
<troy_s> Go PingunZ
<troy_s> msikma you in?
<PingunZ> troy_s: I have problem with XaraXL, I'll install it in dapper tomorrow.
<PingunZ> Or this evening
<troy_s> what is the problem you are having?
<troy_s> pingunz
<PingunZ> well, I have it installed but I get an error when I open it
<troy_s> what is the error?
<troy_s> All you should need to do is download the file, extract it using tar / archiver
<PingunZ> Mailcap file /etc/mailcap, line 50 : incomplete entry ignored.
<PingunZ> I have it installed with apt-get
<troy_s> Ok so let's try stepping you through it.
<troy_s> Try downloading .7
<troy_s> from xaraextreme.org
<troy_s> http://www.xaraxtreme.org/download/
<troy_s> Tell me when you have done this
<PingunZ> ok troy_s, brb
<troy_s> the steps are on that page... you should be ok
<troy_s> just extract it and try running the binary in the xaralx/bin directory
<PingunZ> k I'm back, I'll try to install it that way
<PingunZ> I had serious troubles with edgy yesterday
<PingunZ> troy_s: What exactly is so good about XaraXL ?
<troy_s> You would need to try it.
<troy_s> Inkscape is a wonderful program
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<troy_s> But Xara already has feathering and blurs
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> It is also a darn fast rendering engine
<PingunZ> I haven't found the time to get used to inkscape yet.
<troy_s> Inkscape's performance is a bit laggy when you get into slightly complicated images.
<PingunZ> hmm, how can I install .package files ?
<PingunZ> cool, that's a nice install way :)
<PingunZ> ok, I have xara now, troy_s
<troy_s> Did you unzip it?
<troy_s> Even better, you get every version as it pumps out
<troy_s> Because it is developing _deadly_ fast.
<troy_s> SVG is right around the corner.
<PingunZ> Nice :)
<troy_s> It really is an impressive program.
<troy_s> Having used Illustrator and such, it has many legs up -- like the realtime grading etc.
<troy_s> Watch their videos
<PingunZ> It looks a lot like inkscape
<troy_s> Sort of...
<troy_s> Inkscape has some great features.
<troy_s> And I do like it a lot.
<troy_s> http://www.xaraxtreme.org/about/movies.html
<troy_s> There are a few aboslute beginner guides there
<troy_s> To get your started
<troy_s> Check the file sizes on complicated drawings and you will see another pretty remarkable side of vector illustration
<PingunZ> The gdm doesnt seem to have such a nice font as on the screenshots
<PingunZ> And how can I edit layers ?
<troy_s> The font is bound to your local fonts
<PingunZ> In inkscape I was just able to click and resize things.
<troy_s> So to start,
<troy_s> you will need to install the ubuntu title font from the repositories.
<troy_s> to access the layers
<troy_s> open up the layers dialog
<troy_s> you can lock and unlock the layers so some of them are probably set to not be selectable
<PingunZ> ah ok :)
<troy_s> also note that some of the layers are complicated versions grouped
<troy_s> so you may need to ungroup etc...
<troy_s> both palettes are going to change to rgb when i get a second to convert them... the cmyk's are quite a way off for display purposes.
<PingunZ> Ok :)
<PingunZ> I'll have to get the ubuntu-title font
<PingunZ> Do you know its package name ?
<troy_s> yes... hold on.
<troy_s> you know about apt-cache search functionality?
<troy_s> ttf-ubuntu-title
<troy_s> sudo apt-get install ttf-ubuntu-title
<troy_s> apt-cache search ubuntu title
<troy_s> would give you the package in a beat
<PingunZ> Sorry :) I forget that function sometimes -_-
<troy_s> Tis' ok.
<troy_s> It is a pretty impressive program to consider that it hasn't even hit .1 yet.
<troy_s> Rather 1.0
<troy_s> And it has more than enough functionality to make it an amazingly powerful tool.
<PingunZ> hmm it crashed :p
<PingunZ> troy_s: I suggest you send me the .png's once finished ( including icons ). And then I'll try to make a GDM of it. Ok ?
<troy_s> Weird...
<troy_s> Did you download the recommended version?
<troy_s> Because the development version is rather unstable.
<troy_s> And PingunZ -- you can use the export feature to export the layers into PNGs or whatever you like.
<troy_s> Third tab on the export page.
<PingunZ> troy_s: the program crashes when I try to export ;)
<troy_s> Yes, export is the most heavily developed
<troy_s> There is a simple trick though
<troy_s> Choose your export to png
<troy_s> then make sure that you _wait_ until it has finished rendering
<troy_s> Click preview and _wait_
<troy_s> then export
<troy_s> it works fine if you wait on the rendering to finish.
<PingunZ> troy_s: are you on edgy too ?
<troy_s> No... I need stability.
<troy_s> So I work in Dapper
<PingunZ> troy_s: I'll try again :)
<PingunZ> but I'm pretty sure its going to crash again. :)
<PingunZ> It worked :)
<PingunZ> I have extracted the background.png
<PingunZ> now the logo, then the browser
<PingunZ> and then I can start ' coding ' :)
<troy_s> Nice.
<troy_s> I have been using a skeleton if you want it...
<PingunZ> skeleton ?
<PingunZ> ( I'm very new to this so please don't blame me for my stupid questions :) )
<troy_s> Just a basic xml layout, but I am sure you will do fine...
<PingunZ> Ok, browser and logo are exported.
<PingunZ> troy_s: I'm thinking of writing one from scratch :)
<troy_s> Wow... that would be quite good.
<PingunZ> troy_s: maybe I'll base it on the Relaxing of gnome-look
<troy_s> I encourage you to do what you like... I only based the central looking GDM on some suggestions...  Haven't quite decided on the final design really.
<PingunZ> Is it legal to modify a current one that is GPL ?
<troy_s> You might want to read the GPL :)
<troy_s> It is quite an important document.
<PingunZ> Well, I'll make a current one based on the Relaxing theme. Once the theme gets more comments/modifications I'll write one from scratch :)
<PingunZ> What exatcly is a GPL ?
<troy_s> www.fsf.org
<troy_s> It is an acronym that stands for the "Gnu Public License Agreement"
<troy_s> It is very important, so I encourage you to read it.  It involves critical freedoms and rights that many of us take for granted in a 'democratic' society.
<PingunZ> Is it a long text ? And is every GPL license the same ?
<troy_s> The current version is in the 2 class... Version 3 is being drafted and is subject to a lot of debate discussion.
<troy_s> You should have little problem understanding it.
<troy_s> If you want to understand more about the importance of free software -- I encourage you to read http://www.gnupress.org/book13.html
<troy_s> You can download and share it legally, and buy it if you like to support the FSF.
<PingunZ> troy_s: I'm not going to read the text now, I'll do it later. Once I have the time :)
<PingunZ> And courage :)
<PingunZ> troy_s: Am I allowed to edit the ' browser ' in your GDM ? and slightly edit the background ?
<troy_s> Of course
<troy_s> Do whatever you like.
<PingunZ> I'll make a few mockups and show them to you :)
<PingunZ> !ping msikma
<PingunZ> I'll be idle for a while, I'm on my laptop. ( editing troy 's work ).
<PingunZ> troy_s: can you mail me the logo and the browser ( with transparant background ). I didn't export them right..
<PingunZ> I'll be out for dinner meanwhile.
<PingunZ> !ping troy_s again ( read what I said above )
<troy_s> Hello?
<troy_s> Just about finished up on the first pass of the gdm
<troy_s> Busy here with a little girl :)
<PingunZ> oh :)
<PingunZ> Well mail it to me when you're done :)
<troy_s> If you want transparency
<troy_s> you must export the image as a true colour with alpha channel
<PingunZ> oh
<troy_s> and all of your layers in question must NOT be under the 'background' heading
<troy_s> that will probably solve your problem.
<PingunZ> troy, I made a really nice picture with my camer. If you want it, you can use it for a wallpaper/some other art.
<PingunZ> http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5880/deskyfo5.png
<PingunZ> I have the pic in 10 MP so the size isnt a problem :)
<PingunZ_> !ping troy_s
<troy_s> go pingunz
<troy_s> just heading out the door.
<PingunZ_> I made the mockup
<PingunZ_> I'm uploading it
<PingunZ_> http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7705/backgroundcopyjw4.png
<troy_s> you have a screener of it?
<troy_s> did you get a working xml base yet?
<PingunZ_> No
<PingunZ_> I first need to know how the GDM should look like
<PingunZ_> Then I start.
<PingunZ_> You like my screenie ?
<troy_s> Well it's yours so make it how you want to make it.
<troy_s> I suggest following Franks guidelines if you want someone to consider it.
<PingunZ_> troy_s: It's just a modified version of yours..
<troy_s> I am about to upload the generated buttons etc.
<troy_s> Finished up the darker palette version.
<PingunZ_> ok
<PingunZ_> hey, I'm going to turn of my laptop, brb
<PingunZ> tadam :)
<troy_s> There... uploaded the newer summary and the updated gdm.
<troy_s> xarball.
<troy_s> off for a business meeting
<troy_s> back later.
<troy_s> msikma -- any luck with the metacity palette?
<troy_s> slash tweaks etc.
<msikma> Hi troy_s. I'm busy with something right now, but I've done some work earlier. I still want to work on it more.
<troy_s> Awsome
<troy_s> Great to hear.
<troy_s> Email me when you have some screenshots or something, I would love to see them.
<PingunZ> ping msikma
<msikma> Hi PingunZ.
<PingunZ> msikma: you sent me the GTK-theme mockups yesterday. I'm afraid I lost them.
<msikma> http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/michielgtk14.png
<PingunZ> ok :)
<PingunZ> I'll work on it tomorrow
<msikma> troy_s: I'm sorry I couldn't show you anything today. I'm leaving right now. I got called to do some work and got kind of sidetracked with other stuff from there, so I haven't done much so far. But I'll show you tomorrow.
<msikma> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-20
<troy_s> kwwii: Nice to see that you published some bits to the gutsy incoming page.
<kwwii> troy_s: there will be more coming soon
<troy_s> wholly crappers
<troy_s> have you tried the new melt / etc mode in inkscape?
<kwwii> if nothing else, it might show people what kind of colors we want
<troy_s> all i can say is _wow_
<kwwii> troy_s: no, but I saw the function - i used something similar in illustrator before
<troy_s> kwwii: Actually, that was a question -- what are the odds that you could wrestle for some colour into it?  As in pump a pinch of those triplets we worked out decades ago.
<kwwii> really handy for just drawing
<troy_s> kwwii: It has roughen too.  Very amazing.
<kwwii> hehe, funny enough I was just looking at the mail you sent me with the color palettes ;-)
<troy_s> kwwii: I really think that in terms of the minute 'increments' (if you can call them that) that might be a very valuable one.
<troy_s> kwwii: One further step towards something akin to a palette.
<kwwii> yepp, that was what I was thinking too
<troy_s> kwwii: Also, what are the bits you are going to require for an included optional theme?
<kwwii> no requirements at all
<troy_s> kwwii: GDM / Wallpaper?
<troy_s> kwwii: Elements I was speaking.
<troy_s> kwwii: Sorry.
<kwwii> we need to get people contributing - I'll include anything that is halfway decent
<kwwii> we need to reassure people that their work is appreciated
<troy_s> kwwii: Hrm... so where will this end up?
<troy_s> kwwii: And people contributing is relatively easy if you can spec something up to the discreet componentry.
<troy_s> kwwii: For example, with the wallpaper, to prevent the scattering of effort you could perhaps spec up several details that you want included and stamp a palette onto the requirements.
<kwwii> anything that is not a "full" theme (gdm and wallpaper or more) will end up in an extra package called something like "community themes/artwork"
<troy_s> kwwii: With that very clear 'don't step outside of this palette' rules.
<troy_s> kwwii: So the question then turns to 'what is a full theme'?
<troy_s> kwwii: As there isn't really a good 'artwork' gui to handle all of the bits.
<kwwii> a full theme would be at least gdm, wallpaper and color scheme, I guess
<kwwii> yes, giving a palette to stick to would make things harder at first for people, but better in the long run
<kwwii> the missing gui functionality is the worst part of all
<kwwii> because something that is not a total theme would only end up in the list of possible parts
<troy_s> kwwii: I was also quite impressed that you took that particle smasher idea from ages ago.  It works well and COULD appeal to shuttlebutt.
<troy_s> kwwii: He seems into that space / tech thing.
<troy_s> kwwii: If I had to loosely describe it.
<kwwii> yeah, he found my version a bit too reddish but I am still working on it
<troy_s> kwwii: And if you provide say, three colours for the guys to work with you at least eliminate all the rubbish that people tend to poop out.
<troy_s> kwwii: How the hell is it too reddish?  Jeebus h christ.
<troy_s> kwwii: The palette is almost a must-have considering the ultimate judge.
<kwwii> hehe, no doubt - he knows exactly what he wants - if only we all could understand that better
<kwwii> I'll add some color stuff to the wiki page tomorrow
<kwwii> time for sleep soon
<troy_s> kwwii: he has no clue exactly what he wants
<troy_s> kwwii: In fact, he tends to be closer to an amoeba than anything else.
<troy_s> kwwii: When it comes to him weighing in on styles.
<kwwii> ;-)
<troy_s> kwwii: Oh crappers
<troy_s> kwwii: I forgot to mention, perhaps attach the breezy/hoary walls to show the people what you are talking about.
<troy_s> kwwii: On the wiki page -- pretty sure they have no clue.
<troy_s> kwwii: iirc bersace put them in the archives on the wiki
<troy_s> kwwii: or at least one of them
<troy_s> kwwii: probably a good 'update' to your original email.
<kwwii> good idea, I was wondering if anyone even looked at them
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't think so :)
<troy_s> kwwii: But it certainly would help to steer towards something usable or generate decent ideas as 'spins' on that implementation
<troy_s> kwwii: I wonder who did those earlier walls.
<kwwii> one of them was a guy we paid to do feisty work, but he got somehow just disappeared after offering random crap
<kwwii> and the other one was a guy who worked for the advertising agency we used to use (now we have a new one)
<kwwii> well, I should be more on the ball with this stuff, but I am also working on several other projects at the same time
<kwwii> I've talked to them about that though and in the future I will do almost nothing but desktop work
<kwwii> I've got my eyes open for a few new people - artists, usablity, interface design, etc.
<kwwii> anyway...time for sleep - see you soon
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hi
<alex-weej> bonjour
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-21
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<lapo> hi
<tehk> Anyone know if gutsy will modify their human theme to the new clearlooks engine(like gummy)?
<lapo> hi
<alex-weej> is it just me or has loads of gnome-icon-theme started seeping through
<troy_s> kwwi -- the left sample isn't warty
<troy_s> kwwii: erm right -- that's dapper.
<kwwii> lol, my bad - I just took the name (in the package it is named that)...going to sleep soon, I'll fix that tomorrow morning
<troy_s> kwwii
<troy_s> its here:
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/5%2e04
<troy_s> (well the sample of it)(
<troy_s> hope that helps
<kwwii> right, I'll put simply rename the other and put that one in as well
<kwwii> three pics is better than one
<troy_s> kwwii: Except dappers is shite.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> I spent most of the day in meetings so I didn't get much done, really
<kwwii> hehe
<troy_s> kwwii: Breezy and Hoary are pretty on.
<troy_s> kwwii:  Is that solid drop shadow imagemagick's work?
<kwwii> yeah, "-shadow"
<troy_s> Yes, thought so.
<kwwii> I used the montage command you gave me a long time ago
<troy_s> Yep.  Imagemagick has soooo many powerful tools.  It also handles 12 bits per colour channel well.
<troy_s> (if you are farking with slr raws for xample)
<troy_s> Breezy and Hoary's walls are quite evocative -- quite sad where Dapper took the mess.
<kwwii> well, trying to stick to the same damn kind of pic all the time gets annoying if you ask me
<kwwii> it is like trying to recreate the wheel, creatively
<kwwii> anyway...time for sleep now (/me broke a toe this morning so I spent a long day at the doctor)
<troy_s> kwwii: Nicth
<troy_s> nicth
<troy_s> wtf is that
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> nacht, you mean
<kwwii> or night :-)
<kwwii> see you soon
<kwwii> tomorrow I should be much more productive
<tehk> Anyone know if Human in gutsy will move to the new clearlooks engine?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-22
<lapo> hi
<lapo> kwwii_: please ping when the new ubuntu default bg is almost settled that I have to change all the monitor icons (once again...) :-)
<lapo> kwwii_: just the base colors would be enough
<kwwii_> lapo: will do
<lapo> thanks
<lapo> asap please :-)
<kwwii> it might be a couple of weeks before we know which one is final
<kwwii> btw. it seems people are noticing that we removed tango :p
<lapo> yeah
<lapo> I'm on it tho, I'm trying to fix "offending" bits of g-i-t
<lapo> I did new hw devices for optical and removable media drive, recolored save icons, and other bits here and there
<lapo> I think I'll add the tango note for music as well, probably
<kwwii> cool
<lapo> if you find any out of place icon, ping me
<kwwii> I'll start testing once I have reinstalled my gutsy system
<kwwii> probably tomorrow
<lapo> ok
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-23
<lapo> hi
<lapo> hii
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-24
<terlmann> does anyone like my submission for the gutsy backgrounds ?
<alex-weej> NO
<lapo> hi
<lassegul> hi guys. im lassegullvgstrre2 from the wiki, posted early version of a thingy called borders, and working on a retrobuntu wp. Im wondering, are we having any succsess with getting a palette made?
<lassegul> *for gutsy
<kwwii> lassegul: I am working on defining a few colors as we speak
<kwwii> lassegul: look at the pics at the top of the page, they define the colors pretty well
<kwwii> brown, brown, brown, and a yellowish brown and orangish brown :-)
<lassegul> i never knew that :)
<lassegul> that damianvila guy is talented. I never liked that the colour themes got brighter from warty to edgy. His dark red brown thing is way cool
<kwwii> yepp
<troy_s> greets all
<kwwii> btw...the defualt artwork is not really up to a vote
<kwwii> just to clear that point p now ;-)
<kwwii> hi troy_s
<lassegul> yeah, I got thatb but I was hoping that we could get active enough to make that happen i gutsy+ (hungry hippo) tho.
<kwwii> lassegul: but I intend to include any images that are liked well enough in a community wallpaper package
<lassegul> kwwii: cool
<troy_s> main problem is that apparently we can't even get off the ground running when there are two templates already to follow.
<troy_s> there isn't a single image on that wiki that is even close to the breezy / hoary walls.
<lassegul> troy_s: true. like the one with the mountains and the lame effects. But some of these just needs more work to  be good.
<troy_s> well not if shuttle starts out of the gate with a distinct and very clear goal.
<lassegul> troy_s: i dont follow...?
<troy_s> and yes, quite frankly i am sick to death of fecking wallpapers that aren't anything more than plugin and canned effects.
<troy_s> i could name five to ten art directors that would not only throw your resume in the garbage but also publically flog your work at the first sight of canned effects / plugin usage.
<lassegul> troy_s: glass is half empty,eh?
<troy_s> lassegul: Not at all.
<lassegul> troy_s: could i send you a .png for feedback?
<troy_s> lassegul: And what I was trying to get at is that kwwii very clearly states the goal at the top of the wiki page.
<lassegul> something unique...
<troy_s> lassegul: I believe that was handed down from 'on high' and that means that he was probably very particular with the request.
<kwwii> hehe, even if I fscked up the names on the pics :p
<troy_s> lassegul: You can send me whatever you wish.
<troy_s> kwwii: Yeah lol.
<kwwii> troy_s: funnier still is that I even tried to fix it once :p
<lassegul> troy_s: youve got an email adress?
<troy_s> kwwii: The good news is that you found both and published them
<troy_s> kwwii: Although Dapper's wallpaper is simply shite compared to those two.
<kwwii> yeah, I was thinking about removing it
<kwwii> (and the file names)
<troy_s> kwwii: JunkAssDesigns work or whatever his name is.  Chris?
<lassegul> kwwii: i think the warty is a little flat but its colours are really something
<kwwii> I only included it because it does have the right kind of colors
<troy_s> kwwii: The damn colours are the only weak part in both of those.  Not so much the base, but the fact that shuttle is completely oblique on palettes.
<kwwii> can't remember his name although I did meet him in person
<troy_s> kwwii: I think it was Chris, but I can't be certain.
<troy_s> kwwii: I think if you can sneak steal cheat a triplet or quad colour scheme into the mix with the brown as a base, we could call that a win.
<troy_s> lassegul: you sending that?  i have a nasty bit of turnaround before call today (tomorrow)
<kwwii> troy_s: not sure if adding anything other than browns/yellow/orange will be useful in creating a pic that will be accepted
<troy_s> kwwii: More of the same then I assume.  It's a hideous state of affairs.
<lassegul> troy_s: im sorry, im not a native english speaker. what do you mean?
<troy_s> Ok.  Got to jet.  Out for now.
<troy_s> night guys
<elkbuntu> btw, my mother was annoyed that "the pretty tree thing with the logo snowflakes"(her words) wasn't an provided option, hehe
<troy_s> (or morning)
<lassegul> troy_s: bye
<troy_s> elkbuntu: Largely because it is again -- more evocative.
<elkbuntu> troy_s, yes. explain that to a user though
<troy_s> elkbuntu: It is pretty easy to turn a mainstream user's attention simply by embracing something that communicates SOMETHING.
<troy_s> elkbuntu: You don't need to -- your mainstream user will know those things.  As should anyone calling themselves a designer or what not.
<troy_s> Once again, the cornerstones of all successful design:  Audience and Communication
* troy_s outs.
<lassegul> kwwii: whats the audience and what do we want to communicate?
<lassegul> *who's
<kwwii> the person who gets to pick the pic, so to speak is sabdfl
<kwwii> and he knows exactly what he wants
<kwwii> that is why I posted to the other pics, as he wants something along those lines
<lassegul> kwwii: are you working on anything now?
<kwwii> lassegul: yepp, I am working on several things (and several other projects)
<lassegul> kwwii: ok. you have a worklog, portfolio or something?
<kwwii> lassegul: of everything I have done artistically you mean?
<lassegul> kwwii: no, ubuntu-wise. Ive obviously seen the edgy thing (which i presume you made?), but have you done any other ubuntu stuff that didnt go official?
<kwwii> well, I have done several kubuntu releases
<lassegul> im sorry for unclear english
<kwwii> and I did feisty for ubuntu, not edgy
<lassegul> kwwii for feisty? What did you do?
<kwwii> pretty much everything
<lassegul> the ubuntu logo at usplash is really nice. Thats the thing that really blew me off, just by adding a little backlight to it, looked great.
<lassegul> blew me off is very wrong use of words
<lassegul> anyways, if you made it, i just wanted to say, it looks great.
<lassegul> kwwii: you know who made that ubuntu chocholate wp?
<kwwii> lassegul: nope
<lassegul> kwwii: but you dont like the one made by damianvila? I thought it was nice?
<kwwii> I think it is nice too, but I do not think it has what it takes to be default
<lassegul> but i thought this wasnt a contest for which wp that was going to be default?
<nothlit> elkbuntu: theres an ubuntu pretty tree thing with falling CoF's?
<elkbuntu> i cant remember what it was called. it was on the cd with dapper
<elkbuntu> mum didnt like it when we reinstalled her machine with feisty and it wasnt there
<lassegul> elkbuntu: think it was dawn of ubuntu? something like that...
<elkbuntu> ah yes
<nothlit> oh that one lol
<jeromeg> hello
<jeromeg> does someone know where I can find a higher resolution of the last wallpaper on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas ?
<lassegul> I dont know, but all you have to do is find the photo, add some rippleeffect in Gimp, and add the logo, turn opacity to 20%, and with 3% opacity write ubuntu at the bottom. It practicly makes itself
<lassegul> im having some trouble with inkscape. I have a fairly strong computer with a X2 4200+ CPU and 2 gig ram. But inkscape becomes terribly slow with just 10 transparent objects. And the export time is also really slow. anyone know anything about this?
<jeromeg> lassegul: but I can't find the original picture :)
<jeromeg> lassegul: I had this problem with compiz on
<lassegul> jeromeg: i think im going to try out xara
<jeromeg> lassegul: it's nice too
<lassegul> jeromeg: that ranting above about it practicly makes itself was sarcasm, im sorry if i wasnt clear :)
<jeromeg> lassegul: :)
<lassegul> what do you guys think of the new borders on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
<nothlit> they don't look bad, i'd prefer something less generic :P
<nothlit> lassegul: i think a more organic approach will work better with ubuntu
<troy_s> <lassegul> im having some trouble with inkscape. I have a fairly strong computer with a X2 4200+ CPU and 2 gig ram. But inkscape becomes terribly slow with just 10 transparent objects. And the export time is also really slow. anyone know anything about this?
<troy_s> lassegul: Yes -- compile from SVN and you will have that problem fixed.
<troy_s> lassegul: Inkscape moves at a _tremendous_ pace -- there are many many features added from the last version.
<troy_s> lassegul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HowToCompileInkscape
<troy_s> lassegul: That should get you going down the path.
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-08-25
<CupidWolf> hi
<noir> Can anyone tell me how i can change my application menu logo?
<lassegul> troy_s: thanks man.
<lapo> hi
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-18
 * Cimi is back (gone 06:39:38)
 * Cimi is away: Away
 * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
 * DarkWave43302_AF has returned.
 * DarkWave43302 is not here at present: Gone away for now.
<BasicXP> Hi, guys. I have got such an idea: I want to design some ads on Ubuntu and put it in Internet. Are there any project with same goal?
<BasicXP> And sorry for my bad English.
<BasicXP> People??? Everybody there???
<BasicXP> People??? Anybody there!? D'oh! :)
<zniavre> http://img28.picoodle.com/data/img28/3/8/18/f_radiusmenum_50466df.jpg
<thorwil> nand: bonjour Nicolas!
<nand> thorwil: Guten tag!
<nand> how's packaging working?
<thorwil> nand: not even started. allthough i read a bit about it
<thorwil> both my wallpapers and my scrollbar demo need more work
<nand> your scrollbar?
<nand> I remember you talked about it earlier...
<thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/popup-scrollbar-concept-demo/
<thorwil> https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/dynamic_scrollbar
<nand> ah yeah, remember
<nand> looks cool, but I don't know if people would get accustomed to it
<nand> maybe the Concept distro is a good place to test it!
<nand> (http://www.netsplit.com/2008/08/18/concept-distro/)
<nand> Interesting idea, I think
<thorwil> right
<thorwil> of course all the people who could pull it off are already busy :)
<nand> alas, too much ideas and not enough people :(
<nand> are you planning to do a full theme?
<thorwil> not directly
<thorwil> i have the beginnings of some guidelines in my head
<thorwil> a collection of concepts and the widgets that are commonly used for them
<thorwil> to both think of alternative widgets and what the design of given widgets should get across
<thorwil> the 2nd aspect should be useful as a measure for themes and to get people pull in the same direction
<nand> by alternate widgets, you mean common widgets, but with an alternate behavior like your scrollbar?
<thorwil> in part
<thorwil> as an example, if you directly jump to tabs, you have a rather well defined concept
<thorwil> but if you take it from a more abstract pov, as a means of making one of several areas visible at a time
<thorwil> this can lead to other ideas
<nand> don't forget that the UIs come from at least two UI toolkit (but the total number should be around 5 to 10), so if we want to stay consistent, that means a good lot of work!
<thorwil> can, doesn't have to :)
<nand> s/two UI toolkits/two big UI toolkits/
<thorwil> surpassing apple is no walk in the park :)
<nand> eheh, true enough :)
<thorwil> i don't even expect many new concepts to come up
<thorwil> the abstraction can also help to see larger families, which is important for consistency
<thorwil> i like to think of widgets as the words of a language
<thorwil> we want to use the same words for the same things
<thorwil> and similar words for similar things and never the same words for different things
<thorwil> and choose the most exact and elegant words, to not sound like some ghetto kids ^^
<nand> that's pretty abstract! How do you see that in action?
<thorwil> nand: well, it's work that needs doing :)
<nand> If you're beginning to have, and implement some new interesting concepts, could be interesting to fire up a live CD (for easy testing) to bring more people in, and start ... a brainstorming session :)
<thorwil> arg. is there a way to wrap a long if ... and ... and statement in python?
<nand> no idea!
<thorwil> luckily i can restructure that mess :)
<nand> some people say the block delimitation by indentation is a bad thing. IMO, as long as you got a good text editor, that's not a problem :)
<thorwil> i mostly like it. i found it to be the most readable language and i would carefully indent, anyway
<pwnguin> so i have a new job as a lab assistant at a community college
<pwnguin> overheard from a lecturer: "all computer and web graphics are 75dpi"
 * thorwil giggles
<elkbuntu> ha
<pwnguin> and then he tried to call cmyk addititive and rgb subtractive
<cody-somerville> pwnguin, that joke went right over my head
<nand> if my old color knowledge is good, it's the opposite...
<pwnguin> indeed
<pwnguin> these aren't exactly "jokes"
<pwnguin> they're just sad =(
<thorwil> cody-somerville: macs have been said to comply to 76 dpi (well, 70+something, at least). for PCs and I guess also modern macs, 92 tends to be closer to the truth
<thorwil> cody-somerville: but actually, you just get a pixel by pixel view
<thorwil> cody-somerville: where the true dpi varies, depending on display
<thorwil> for web graphics, dpi is pretty much useless
<thorwil> you still see these numbers in introductory material and people keep parotting them
<pwnguin> its painful
<pwnguin> but theres a huge difference between a webpage layout assuming 72 dpi and one assuming 100
<DanaG> zwhoa: http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/08/08/18/
<DanaG> Reeally nie photo.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-19
<thorwil> nand: hi! say, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda still has the items from last time, right?
<nand> thorwil: Hi! Yes, they have the habit to forgot to update the wiki page :)
<nand> next is ... today
<nand> ah, in one hour!
<nand> thorwil: no luck this time!
<nand> but that's a good thing to bring that on the CC, that should force at least some kind of answer
<thorwil> *shrug*, could be worse :)
<nand> company is asking for a brainstorm widget whose size is given in centimeters. Bwahaha
 * nand sees himself with a ruler on his screen
<thorwil> nand: just also give them an on-screen ruler ;)
<thorwil> bzr doesn't like large files like big .xcf, it seems. every 2nd push fails
<thorwil> or rather every 1st first and second fixes it after a break-lock
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-20
<DanaG> Hmm, new theme by Stardock: http://www.stardock.com/media/mailers/preview_vista.jpg  --- I can't decide whether I like it or dislike it.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-21
<thorwil> _MMA_: good time of the day, dear sir
<_MMA_> Same to you my good man.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-22
<zerwas> Hi
<zerwas> In a few days the first deadline is there. Can somebody explain to me what this means?
<askand> Is it only me or is half the mailinglist complains about topposting? =-O
<nand_> it's a rite amongst Ubuntu artworkers :)
<pwnguin> it needs to be solved once and for all
<pwnguin> claiming there's an established ettiquette is simply a lie
<Flannel> topposting is evil
<pwnguin> psh
<pwnguin> write google and tell them how they're being evil then
<Flannel> its a crime against your fellow man, and because such, is against the code of conduct :)
<pwnguin> if open source is worth a damn, this angst should produce some sort of technical solution
<pwnguin> given that we know they exist
<nand_> one of the - involuntary - culprit is Gmail : it is hiding the quoted text so that topposting or not, it looks the same. So Gmail users don't understand what is the problem
<Flannel> pwnguin: Theres a good number of clients (all in Ubuntu?) that default to starting replies below quoted
<pwnguin> Flannel: ok, so how about some decent threading and collapsing
<pwnguin> did google patent it?
<Flannel> Eh?  I have no idea what you're talking about
<pwnguin> have you not seen gmail threading in action?
<Flannel> Nope.  I prefer to own my data.
<pwnguin> i dont see how that means you never look at what others are doing
<pwnguin> anyways
<Flannel> Having never used gmail, I obviously am unaware of its UI
<Flannel> Sorry for not watching your type emails over your shoulder.
<pwnguin> like there aren't videos etc
<pwnguin> anyways
<pwnguin> what it does is collapse quoted text into a small purple "click to expand quote"
<pwnguin> and automatically threads mail
<Flannel> threading is ... all over the place
<pwnguin> in my experience it works almost perfectly
<Flannel> pwnguin: and, a cursory search reveals that thunderbird has a quote collapse extension thing too.
<pwnguin> great
<pwnguin> i should try it sometime
<pwnguin> the point is, lots of the world has never heard of "top posting"
<pwnguin> technology can make that an artifact of time
<pwnguin> and the sooner that happens, the sooner people won't feel antagonized in ubuntu-artwork
<Flannel> pwnguin: Yes, but people in FOSS do, and older people (from the beginnings of the internet) do too.  There's just a gap for the rest, which are also the people who click on email links to download screensavers and icon packs.  I'm, not really sure where you're going.
<Flannel> pwnguin: The first thing one should do when joining a community officially or unofficially, is observe their social norms.
<Flannel> This goes for any community, whether online, or a new job, or whatever.
<pwnguin> having observed the social norms of -artwork, they seem unhealthy :P
<Flannel> pwnguin: I'm actually not subscribed to the mailing list, so I wouldn't be the one to comment on that.
<pwnguin> then you'll have no choice to believe me when I say that every month a collossal top posting thread is initiated by one or two agitators
<pwnguin> ive tried to remedy the poison
<pwnguin> it seems to have worked a bit, but it's a social solution to a technical problem
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-23
<zerwas> this top posting story is ridiculous, yes ...
<zerwas> pwnguin: can you tell me what the 3 deadlines mean?
<pwnguin> zerwas: actually, I'm not sure
<zerwas> would it be OK to ask this on the mailing list?
<zerwas> i wonder if my chances to get spam if i post to ubuntu-art are getting higher ...
<dragonbite> :)
<zerwas> hi dragonbite
<Guest40350> oigan alguien me podra ayudar con mi tesis
<Guest40350> alguien me podra ayudar con mi tema de mi tesis de universidad ahahah
<Guest40350> alguien que hable espanol
<pwnguin> sorry, I'm a dirty american that only speaks english and a little bit of german
<Guest40350> hello pwnguin
<pwnguin> hi
<Guest40350> were you from pwnguin
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-08-24
<ZlNG> hey guys! gotta question... anyone got some ears to lend me?
<ZlNG> hmm well durn... i'll ask anyway
<ZlNG> i am part of the dev team for PCLinuxOS "I won and run www.GetPCLinuxIS.com" but I am dissapointed in their support and community and I am lookign for a new distro to hop with witha  great community and support... i was wondering what you guys think if I switch to Ubunto and made GetPCLinuxOS.com into a pointing site for my new site which would be GetUbunto.com and have it offer the 3 major versions of Ubunto...
<elkbuntu> ZlNG, i'm not entirely sure that would be overly respectful, as per the Code of Conduct of this community.
<BHSPitLappy> I'm not sure anybody would visit either misspelled URL, so the matter is probably irrelevant
<zerwas> Hi
<zerwas> I sent a mail to ubuntu-art mailing list but it seems that it never arrived ...
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-17
<mac_v> mat_t: hi... just an idea for the gdm > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot#Iteration%202%20[GDM]%20edit%20by%20mac_v
<mac_v> not sure how far it is feasible though ;p
<mat_t> mac_v: very cool, not really implementable with the current gdm codebase
<mat_t> exactly :)
<mat_t> mac_v: for Karmic all we're doing is applying a custom theme to the existing gdm
<mat_t> and shuffling some buttons around
<mac_v> mat_t: why did you drop your face browser idea?
<mat_t> mac_v: we didn't drop it. There was just nobody to implement it yet :)
<mac_v> mat_t: anyways... something for Karmic+1 , or LTS ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: definitely!
<thorwil> you 2 really make for tidy irc logs, with your nicks lining up like that ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: would be cool if we could start a separate page for the face browser concepts
<mat_t> thorwil: that's one of our primary goals, to make those logs look semi-decent at last
<mat_t> ;P)
<mac_v> mat_t: i thought of some other crazy ideas for gdm , but dropped them due to a11y reasons , but yeah a separate page would be nice
<mac_v> thorwil: ;p
 * mac_v breaks the log :(
<thorwil> if ideas like mac_v's that can't be implemented, currently, are looked for, an extra page for that should be outside Karmic
<mat_t> thorwil: correct
 * mac_v suggests wil_t nic instead of thorwil 
<thorwil> mac_v: fail! it should be thor_w, then
<mac_v> no , to match ours
<thorwil> tho_w, actually
<thorwil> mac_v: but my marketing department doesn't permit that. they claim any change of nick would diminish brand recognition
<mac_v> thorwil: yeah :) very true
<mac_v> thorwil: are you subscribed to wiki trivial edits too! 0.o that should be a lot of spam!
<thorwil> mac_v: only when John Baer gets to work :)
<mac_v> hehe... ;)
<thorwil> mac_v: there are sneaky bastards like ckontros who sometimes try to sneak non-trivial edits by marking them trivial. but not with me, no sire!!
<thorwil> mwuhahaha!
<mac_v> hm... 0.o nice idea
<thorwil> no seriously, you could never successfully monitor wiki changes without being notified for any and all edits
<thorwil> luckily we have no vandalism. except mine :)
<mac_v> dont worry , when Ubuntu picks up user volume , you have those too...
<mac_v> ;)
<thorwil> good thing ubuntu has no noteworthy user volume, yet, then! ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: why hasnt someone ,in the community, started a glossy set of icons?
<mac_v> is it against some rule?
<thorwil> mac_v: how would i know why others don't do something like that?
<mac_v> hehe, i was just wondering...
<thorwil> mac_v: but there have been many glossy icons all over the place and there are not many serious icon efforts
<mac_v> yeah
<dashua> bzr branch lp:hanso
<dashua> Any opinions please let me know ? :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> thorwil: i added the mailing list link for mr.doob , should i remove it? i feel if the link was available permanently we have too much noise on the list from non-contributors ... or is it ok?
<mac_v> would have*
<thorwil> mac_v: i don't think such a link will lead to more noise
<mac_v> ok, i'll leave it :)
<mac_v> SiDi: heya... whats up? still no network?
<SiDi> mac_v: no, no internet, thats why i'm here
<mac_v> SiDi: guessed so , that must be the only reason you've been quiet ;p
<mac_v> SiDi: hows notify-osd for xfce coming?
<mac_v> comming along*
<mac_v> coming*
 * mac_v  should stop correcting own typos , only leads to more typos!
<mac_v> thorwil: could you move my gdm submission , to a relevant page, pls ,i want to add a couple of ideas, i usually mess up creating new wiki pages
<mac_v> or if you created a gdm page , i could add it there.
<thorwil> mac_v: oh common, creating a page is child's play and the rest just cut-paste
<thorwil> mac_v: only question is the path for that new page
<mac_v> wiki page , i usually give stupid labels , and wrong path :(
<mac_v> cut and paste is not the problem
<thorwil> mat_t: what do you think where new gdm ideas outside current cycle should end up?
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Login?
<thorwil> though i wonder if that really should be handled isolated from boot splash
<mac_v> i had same confusion while submitting :/
<thorwil> hmm?
<mat_t> thorwil: How about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/3DFaceBrowd
<mat_t> bugger
 * mat_t tries again
<mat_t> thorwil: How about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/3DFaceBrowser
<mat_t> the idea is to have a custom built 3D accelerated interface
<thorwil> mat_t: you want it to be all about 3DFaceBrowser, not generally what ever crazy people like mac_v might come up with? ;)
<mat_t> probably clutter based
<mac_v> hehe...
<mat_t> thorwil: absolutely whatever :) What we need is an encouragement to really stretch people's creativity
<thorwil> mat_t: i suggest "Login" to not even point to specific technology (GDM)
<mat_t> thorwil: exactly
<mac_v> thorwil: how about "GDM" ?
<mac_v> ih crap!
<thorwil> if the focus should also encompass boot splashes, it should be "Boot"
<mat_t> thorwil: to me the artwork team should have two paralell tracks > ongoing work (something that can be implemented into the nearest release) and future-oriented, experimental work
<mat_t> the latter should not be restricted by current implementation issues
<thorwil> mat_t: the current wiki guidelines state that stuff that isn't targeted at a specific release goes into Incoming directly
<thorwil> and there's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Concepts for far out stuff
<mat_t> cool
<mat_t> not much there....
<thorwil> mat_t: we have been rather discouraging of such efforts
<mat_t> thorwil: ?
<thorwil> mat_t: you see it quite often that someone puts quite a lot of work in some concept, ignoring most technical questions
<thorwil> mat_t: sometimes some fans appear and cheer a bit
<thorwil> mat_t: but there's never ever someone to implement anything
<thorwil> mat_t: i do know the value of brainstorming and free creativity
<thorwil> mat_t: but i'm also vary of wasting time. not only my own time
<mat_t> thorwil: I see exactly what you mean
<thorwil> mat_t: so if something is to happen there, it should be given structure from your side ;)
<thorwil> mat_t: dinner time, bbl
<mat_t> enjoy!
<mac_v> thorwil: oops! my network-manager crashed , did you create a link?
<mat_t> mac_v: how's the battery icon stuff? Did you try some other variants?
<mac_v> mat_t: i tried to etch it in , but it will look almost the same so  , not sure what to do , do you have any ideas?
<mat_t> mac_v: have you tried with a subtle gradient on the bolt?
<mac_v> hmm... the prob is the bolt is narrow and any gradient just makes it loose its shape , since we have limited options
<thorwil> mac_v: no, didn't
<mac_v> thorwil: no probs , no hurry, someday when you find time you can create it and remind me :)
<thorwil> mac_v: i talked with mat and had dinner, instead ;)
<thorwil> mac_v: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Login
<mac_v> ;) i had back to back crashes of different apps , now i have got some fun backtrace to do ;p
<mac_v> ah, nice...
<thorwil> mac_v: it can always be moved/renamed later, if the need arises
<mac_v> sure , no probs
<thorwil> mac_v: you should write an introduction to make clear that page is not just for your stuff
<mac_v> ok
<thorwil> mac_v: then you might want to talk with mat_t about bringing it up on the mailing list
<mac_v> hehe, "my stuff"  ,
<mac_v> Ah...mat , yeah will do ,
<mac_v> thorwil: for now , i'll just move my stuff here , tomorrow i'll set it up properly , is that ok?
<mac_v> or shall i do the copy paste tomorrow itself?
<thorwil> mac_v: yes, ok
<mac_v> thanks :)
<thorwil> np
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-18
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22268/screenshot_004_6qwQoW.png
<dashua> I think I have the steppers working good with OOo :)
<dashua> kwwii, Look ok?
<mac_v> mat_t: how is adding a new boot [iteration3 ] a trivial edit? no sneaking past me or thorwil ;p
<mat_t> haha
<mat_t> sorry - this is a habit
 * mat_t has done too much wiki editing in the last months
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> mat_t: so you remain "Currenly" logged in
<mac_v> thorwil: nice catch ... lmao!
<mat_t> thorwil: nice :)
<mat_t> thorwil: about 50 people looked at it (including sabdfl) *many many times*... Quite astonishing :)
<mac_v> that mistake has been in all the 3 version! and no one noticed!
<thorwil> mat_t: i first noticed when i created my edit. but wanted to give you the chance to notice yourself :)
<mac_v> mat_t: it would be more than 50 , counting all the people who have been watching since iteration 1 !
<mat_t> thanks thorwil!
<mac_v> mat_t: actually you should be angry with thorwil for not mentioning earlier ;p
 * thorwil removes a nice word towards mac_v from the future
<mac_v> oh... :(
<mac_v> mat_t: i tried with different versions of the flash , but it is not possible to do shades and still maintain the same shade for flash for all the % . IMO changing the shades for different % wouldnt look nice
<mat_t> mac_v: not sure what you're referring to
<mac_v> mat_t: you said to try gradients for the flash ,[battery notify-osd icons] ^
<mac_v> mat_t: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/gradient.svg , http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/notification-battery-060-plugged.svg
<mat_t> mac_v: ah, yes ? I was out of context there :)
<mac_v> mat_t: you can compare the two above^ which is better ? , the gradient is the new one , and the second is the one i sent earlier
<mac_v> do note above the 60% , black from the background will make the flash display properly
 * mat_t looks
<mac_v> rendered png > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/PNG.png
<mac_v> first version > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/white.png
<mat_t> mac_v: thanks
<mac_v> mat_t: which one is better?
<mat_t> mac_v: gradient is better, I'd also try making the bolt slightly larger
<mat_t> mac_v: and we're good to go :)
<mac_v> mat_t: hmm... ok , when do you want the new version?
<mat_t> mac_v: kwwii's on holidays until next Friday, I guess he'll be implementing it
<mac_v> mat_t: actually after rendering i agree that the gradient is better :)
<mat_t> mac_v: :)
<mat_t> mac_v: good work
<mac_v> thanx :)
<mrdoob> hello hello
<thorwil> welcome mrdoob
<mrdoob> last time I was here was to complain about 8.04 default wallpaper
<mrdoob> hehe
<mrdoob> it was too late tho
<thorwil> mrdoob: complaining rarely works like that. not just here
<mrdoob> so the reason why Canonical mockups have a spotlight is because it needs to give a sense of space/depth?
<thorwil> mrdoob: so far we don't know which came first: spotlight or the quest for depth ;)  but maybe mat_t is so kind to tell you
<mrdoob> thorwil: yeah actually didn't specifically complained, I mainly asked if it the background was official and if it was going to be used on the final
<mrdoob> thorwil: ok, will wait to hear from mat_t then
<mac_v> mat_t: me have mrdoob here :)
<mat_t> hi mrdoob :)
<mrdoob> hello :)
<mat_t> mrdoob: first of all, great work on the designs!
<mrdoob> it's the least I could do
<mrdoob> I did it because I've been using ubuntu for a long time already and wanted to give something in exchange
<mrdoob> the problem is that I put too much love on it I guess :P
<mat_t> mrdoob: we all make that mistake! ;)
<mat_t> So the quick story of this concept would be rougly that ? Otto (chaotic) came up with the concept that would enable us to add some depth to the design - mostly because we can't do very much with the gdm itself (it's very flat)
<mrdoob> I see
<mrdoob> there was basically 2 options when trying to suggest depth
<mat_t> also, the metaphor of starting up as "lighting" Ubuntu was nice
<mrdoob> light and shadow
<mrdoob> light = dark environment
<mrdoob> shadow = bright environment
<mrdoob> the dark environment has been picked
<mrdoob> which in my opinion has a problem
<mrdoob> ubuntu/linux is "underground" enough
<mrdoob> that doesn't really benefit from a dark environment
<mrdoob> apple/microsoft has always focused to brightness
<mrdoob> even apple is even going to the galaxy, not that the galaxy is bright, but it's the feeling it produces
<mrdoob> in short
<mrdoob> right now
<mrdoob> ubuntu = lit room
<mrdoob> windows = sky
<mrdoob> macos = galaxy
<mat_t> I think that's fine - Ubuntu should feel close and familiar, but still full of opportunities
<mat_t> the choice of default wallpaper will be very important - it should accentuate the opportunities and freedom
<mrdoob> ok
<mrdoob> let me upload something to illustrate my point
<mat_t> mrdoob: it's quite interesting you thought of a room
<mrdoob> it's the feeling it gives
<mat_t> mrdoob: I'd rather say it's more of a stage that's being set
<mac_v> mat_t: default wallpaper , something abstract resembling an oasis at the end of a desert :)
<mat_t> mac_v: desert doesn't sound very potent ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: yeah , i couldnt think of anything else brown ;p
<mrdoob> ok
<mac_v> thats y i added the oasis
<mrdoob> I guess I'm not supposed to show this... but well, faster than hacking up a new one
<mrdoob> http://mrdoob.com/files/temp/ubuntu_lit.png
<mrdoob> don't worry about the blue
<mrdoob> that's pretty similar to the current mockup
<mrdoob> but the environment is lit
<mrdoob> it gives much nicer feeling in my opinion
<mrdoob> more open, and more sexy
<mat_t> yes it is nice - would be interesting to see how you'd resolve the throbber and gdm window
<mrdoob> throbber is easy, there is still color spectrum for a lighter element
<mrdoob> to be honest, it's much more easier to work on a lit environment than the dark environment you're trying to work with
<mrdoob> gdm won't be much of a problem either
<mat_t> mrdoob: I think it would be quite tricky to make it feel "ubuntu" without going into good old brown/tan or some kind of dull gray
<mrdoob> (15:02:00) mrdoob: don't worry about the blue
<mat_t> but it would be great to see the light variant with all the elements
<mrdoob> just tint it to brow
<mat_t> mrdoob: exactly, that's what worries me :)
<mrdoob> there was a gdm, or even a boot some releases ago that was white/brown if I remember correctly
<mrdoob> I meant that, from that design, don't worry about the blue tone, is not the point of the design
<mrdoob> but the feeling it gives
<mat_t> mrdoob: right, but without a complete design there's not much we can say - I'd say it looks nice, but it doesn't really feel "ubuntu"
<mac_v> another problem from wiki > " The reason Canonical's mockup (and all of the previous usplash themes) use a black background is because on some video/monitor combinations the usplash image does not fill the entire screen and whatever is not filled shows as black. Microsoft does the same thing in Windows XP and newer (and I had a computer that had this problem with Windows 98, looked really unprofessional). The reason Apple can get away with doin
<mac_v> g this with OS X is because they control the hardware. Short version: use a black background on your usplash"
<mat_t> mac_v: right, usplash unfortunately has to stay black
<mac_v>  not sure how xsplash handles the light elements
<mat_t> mac_v: but that's not a primary reason any more
<mat_t> xsplash can handle any resolution, so we can use any color we want
<mac_v> that was amaranth , i just quoted him
<mrdoob> mat_t: ok, I'll try to do a mockup ...
<mac_v> wow , thats nice to hear :) so , why not use the light environment?
<mac_v> mat_t: ^
<mat_t> mrdoob: cool!
<mat_t> mac_v: If you can make it looks super-slick, make it feel "ubuntu" and not brown/tan - be my guest :)
<mrdoob> mat_t: how does xsplash work?
<mac_v> hehe , we have mrdoob for that  , he'll save Karmic :)
<mrdoob> I mean, how will treat the design in a 800x600 and in 1920x1200
<mat_t> mrdoob: it's just a fullscreen window, with the background, logo and throbber
<mrdoob> yeah, but does it crop/resize?
<mat_t> mrdoob: we're working out the scaling issues, it will either scale or pick the most appropriate asset
<mrdoob> vector/bitmap?
<mat_t> bitmap
<mrdoob> ok
<mrdoob> alright
<mat_t> the code is very similar to wallpaper scaling/cropping
<mrdoob> ok, I'll get down to this as soon as I get home then
<thorwil> mrdoob: try to keep the soft blue. maybe explore very warm green. to then bring in brown tones with the throbber and dialogs
<mac_v> mrdoob: try the new shade of iteration3 , black-currant ,
<mac_v> :)
<mac_v> i mean a very light one though
<mrdoob> http://cdn.cbsi.com.au/story_media/339283110/photos-ubuntu-710_1.jpg
<mrdoob> people didn't like that one?
<mrdoob> colour-wise
<mac_v> mrdoob:  <mat_t>  If you can make it looks super-slick, make it feel "ubuntu" and not brown/tan - be my guest :)
<mat_t> mac_v: thanks :)
<mac_v> so i guess no brown , :)
<mrdoob> that's what I'am asking
<mrdoob> what's wrong with brown/tan
<mrdoob> brand change?
<mat_t> mrdoob: there's nothing inherently wrong with brown
<mrdoob> nothing like the feelilng of sand...
<mrdoob> :)
<mac_v> mrdoob: people have been asking for a change from brown to something else , i guess its being transitioned slowly
<mrdoob> ok ok
<MadsRH> mrdoob -> looking forward to seeing what you'll come up with ;-)
<mat_t> thorwil: good point about ellipsis
<mac_v> wow , mat_t only now reading the backlog ? ;p
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
 * mat_t has *many* emails to read :)
<MadsRH> mac_v -> What's in the backlog? I've not been online that long
<mac_v> MadsRH: thorwil's mail > Login options should not have "...". Menus elsewhere come without.
<mac_v> not irc log :)
<mac_v> i was just kidding , he had sent it only 2 hrs ago
<mrdoob> oh yes, that's another thing, from dael99 comment: "I truly think it should have the release number on the boot"
<mrdoob> anything wrong by having the release number on the logo?
<MadsRH> mrdoob -> +1 that would make sense
<mrdoob> it something that I really miss, everytime I boot ubuntu would be nice to know which ubuntu I'm booting
<mac_v> -1 ;p it would throw off the balance[words and number would look odd ] , would be unnecessary to look at the number daily
<mrdoob> it doesn't need to be big and bold
<mrdoob> just subtle
<mac_v> even so , for a logo or advert it might be nice , but as a boot it would look Odd , Just my opinion , but mat_t might have some branding reasons
<MadsRH> mac_v -> I don't agree. Windows had that http://z.about.com/d/pcsupport/1/5/P/0/-/-/xpnew18.jpg
<mac_v> MadsRH: i used to hate that , PLS dont make me look at such nasty things without warning ;p
<MadsRH> mac_v -> :-X
<mrdoob> I don't think windows xp is a nasty boot :S
<ethana2> mrdoob: ..what?
<mac_v> we already know its an XP/vista/ its already labelled but , BTW win7 has dropped it
<ethana2> there are two bugs in the dust sand theme
<ethana2> I'd like help fixing them myself
<MadsRH> mac_v -> right, that Win7 boot is work out great for them. The comment I get the most on my mockups is "it looks great, but looks like Win7" :-/
<ethana2> first is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-gdm-themes/+bug/350693
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 350693 in ubuntu-gdm-themes "Dust Sand Theme display error" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mrdoob> mac_v: but windows releases a new version every 2/3 years, and changes the design in each
<mrdoob> ubuntu can't afford changing the design in every release
<mac_v> MadsRH: yeah , the orbs , what can we do , we'd be just called copycats :(
<ethana2> mrdoob: we should adopt gnome-globalmenu
<ethana2> here's a screenshot.
<ethana2> uploading...
<ethana2> http://i27.tinypic.com/ostjqo.png
<mrdoob> oh
<mrdoob> macos
<ethana2> no.
<ethana2> better.
<ethana2> ubuntu.
<ethana2> the desktop for human beings
<mrdoob> :)
<ethana2> see the window list at the bottom?
<mac_v> mrdoob: if you look at the screenshot , it has unnecessary branding 3 times "Microsoft"
<mac_v> i mean the windows boot^
<mrdoob> mac_v: yeah I know, but still, isn't really "nasty"
<ethana2> haha, mine has it 17 times
<mac_v> ;)
<mrdoob> windows95 was more nasty
<mrdoob> http://www.stimart.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/windows95.jpg
<mrdoob> and you can't see all the dithering there
<mrdoob> lovely shadow on the logo
<mrdoob> shadow... on top of... the sky
<ethana2> heh
<ethana2> anybody experienced with editing gtk themes here?
<ethana2> I want to fix two issues with dust sand
<mac_v> ethana2: that would be dashua
 * ethana2 lies in wait for him
<mac_v> ethana2: BTW , whats the issue with dust sand?
<mrdoob> ethana2: http://mrdoob.com/files/temp/ubuntu_desktop.png
<mrdoob> that's how my desktop looks
<mrdoob> notice how I have the top bar without the "Application Places System" thing
<mrdoob> I don't mind if Ubuntu uses gnome-globalmenu as long as I can re-configure it to look like that ;)
<mac_v> mrdoob: seems like you use thunderbird , when you are using email clients you shouldnt have a problem with top post
<mrdoob> mac_v: :)
<mac_v> AFAIK only yahoo irritates the mailing list ;p
<mrdoob> I want to avoid mailing lists :P
<ethana2> mrdoob: that's how I used to do it
<mrdoob> too old for that :P
<ethana2> and the global menu is, naturally, just another panel applet
<ethana2> so you can do what you please
<ethana2> in fact, it has its own settings too, it's configurable
<mrdoob> then it's cool
<mrdoob> although the screenshot you sent it's messy, it should need a separator bar
<ethana2> eh?
<MadsRH> ethana2 -> or perhaps a separator bar and use another font (remove the bold). It really looks messy!
<ethana2> separator bars are noise.
<ethana2> death to them.
<ethana2> I'm just using dust sand default
 * ethana2 goes into font settings, nixes the bold
<ethana2> rggh
<ethana2> the problem is that it uses window title bar font settings for the menus
<mrdoob> I like separator bars :)
<ethana2> they are worthless
<ethana2> one should use whitespace
<ethana2> actually, the widget or whatever would be fine, if it was just completely invisible
<ethana2> nothing in the panels should be anything but monochrome
<ethana2> also, applets should cling to one end or the other
<ethana2> none of this manual arranging stuff
<ethana2> and the ubuntu logo
<ethana2> shouldn't be 6 parts, should be 4
<ethana2> circle, three heads, that's all
<ethana2> one color
<ethana2> and the motto, I never mention 'linux'
<ethana2> I take great care to avoid doing so
<ethana2> no one gives a crap what kernel you use, they just want their stuff to work
<ethana2> frankly, linux has a bad usability concerning usability, and we're better off just ditching it
<ethana2> history/reputation**
<ethana2> we've still got a long ways to go to catch up to Apple
<ethana2> but they are both innovative and vicious, and doing so will require us to change nearly everything about what we're doing in some way or other
<ethana2> nothing can be sacred
<mrdoob> I think little by little people is starting to see that linux is good
<mrdoob> I don't think we should "hide" linux
<ethana2> linux is a kernel
<mrdoob> for people
<ethana2> gnome is more important
<ethana2> gnu is more important
<mrdoob> lines = something that kind of works and is free
<ethana2> apt is pretty important too
<ethana2> but no one cares
<ethana2> it's just another piece
<ethana2> gentoo is linux, android is linux
<ethana2> 'linux' tells you nothing
<mrdoob> well, tell you what kind of software will you be able to run
<ethana2> 'kind of works'?
<mrdoob> more or less
<ethana2> not good enough
<ethana2> 'very little'
<mrdoob> you see, recently I bought my parents a new computer
<ethana2> *headdesk*
<mrdoob> my father said that the previous one was "better"
<mrdoob> both used windows xp
<mrdoob> the difference is that the previous one had office installed, so was able to see those .ppt files his friends sent him
<ethana2> ah
<mrdoob> that's what people consider when something "works"
<mrdoob> compatbility
<natewiebe13> this is the place for discussing the new gdm.. right?
<mrdoob> seems like
<natewiebe13> i'll take it as a yes.. i think everyone has heard my idea already, i know mr doob has.. about the wallpaper when selecting a user..
<natewiebe13> is it even possible to accomplish?
<ethana2> natewiebe13: ?
<ethana2> s/possible/practical
<natewiebe13> possible
<natewiebe13> as in.. with the code
<natewiebe13> able to even happen
<natewiebe13> what i would like to see as a final product is mr.doob's iteration 3, with (i think it was mac_v) the modified gdm, and the wallpaper fade
<natewiebe13> ethana2: its under iteration 2 /Boot/Demo
<ethana2> ....?
<natewiebe13> ethana2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/255199/
<natewiebe13> from the wiki page
<natewiebe13> mac_v: was it you who modified the proposed gdm? (seperated the users)
<mac_v> natewiebe13: yeah , but that is not feasible as of now , the gdm is not customizable
<ethana2> sounds good though
<natewiebe13> ethana2: my idea?
<ethana2> yes
<natewiebe13> my reasons why it would be good are in there, i think
<natewiebe13> ethana2: do you think its even possible to do?
<ethana2> maybe not with the current code
<ethana2> I think we should have the needed code written though
<ethana2> I think it should load the default user's wallpaper, if set public
<ethana2> the instant the kernel gets control from grub
<ethana2> display that blended 50/50 with white and a pulser in the middle
<mac_v> natewiebe13: the wallpaper changing? when user is selected?
<ethana2> then replace the throbber(**) with gdm
<natewiebe13> here's what i was thinking about this...
<ethana2> then if another user is selected, change the background accordingly
<ethana2> then fade out gdm and the white and slide in the panels
<ethana2> so you can have the same picture
<ethana2> from the instant you get control from grub
<ethana2> to your desktop
<natewiebe13> what it uses for xsplash as a background is also whats used in gdm (just like the proposed solution), when you select a user, it then fades into their background (if they allow the background to be public). if it cancels, then fades back into the default. and repeats if another user is selected
<natewiebe13> im not thinking it would be that difficult to accomplish..
<natewiebe13> but if someone can make this work.. it would be great
<natewiebe13> is there anyone on here that is on the official artwork team?
<natewiebe13> if not.. anyone know the best way to suggest this to one of the team's members so it has a chance to be a possibility?
<mac_v> natewiebe13: the design team is here , but to get it *more* visbility , send a mail to the mailing list
<natewiebe13> mac_v: alright.. thanks
<natewiebe13> mac_v: what do you think about that idea?
<mac_v> natewiebe13: ideas are nice but they have to be implementable , ;)
<natewiebe13> if it is possible.. what do you think of the idea?
<mac_v> should be cool
<natewiebe13> mac_v: im hoping that it will freshen up the login experience a bit, make it new and different.
<mrdoob> natewiebe13: here it's a suggestion
<mac_v> natewiebe13: yeah, it would be nice :)
<mrdoob> create a video that illustrates your idea
<mrdoob> you'll save the time of trying to make people visualize your idea ;)
<mac_v> mrdoob: color for the boot , how does lavender sound?
<mrdoob> too aggresive
<mrdoob> I think
<mrdoob> too colorful maybe
<mrdoob> dark ones are nice tho
<mrdoob> http://www.whitewitch.ie/natural_perfumers_journal/uploaded_images/lavender-799013.jpg
<mrdoob> http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=chrome&q=lavender&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi
<mrdoob> but it's quite a punch in the eye
<mrdoob> maybe something like this
<mrdoob> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/135966690_d6dcf47e5a.jpg?v=0
<natewiebe13> mrdoob: i still like the monochrome gradient from iteration 1 (i think its iteration 1)
<mac_v> mrdoob: i was thinking of a very mild shade , Languid lavender / Lavender gray / Light mauve > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_%28color%29
<natewiebe13> mrdoob: also, what should i use to make the video, ive never done one before :P
<natewiebe13> yeah iteration 1
<mrdoob> natewiebe13: I learned Adobe After Effects for doing my animated mockups, seemed a good solution
<natewiebe13> okay
<natewiebe13> thanks
<mrdoob> mac_v: yeah that's interesting
<mrdoob> so I guess we're moving a bit to the blue then
<natewiebe13> mrdoob: is it possible to get your boot from iteration 3
<natewiebe13> ?
<mrdoob> in between red/blue I mean
<natewiebe13> without ripping from youtube
<mac_v> mrdoob: its a bright warn color but retaining the pinkishness would seperate it from blue
<mrdoob> natewiebe13:  send me an email (info@mrdoob.com) and I'll upload the source files for you
<mrdoob> mac_v: yep
<mrdoob> natewiebe13: (otherwise I may forgot when I get home :D)
<natewiebe13> alright.. emailed
<natewiebe13> what format are they in?
<mrdoob> after effects
<mrdoob> cs something
<natewiebe13> is it possible just to get the boot in avi or mpg?
<mrdoob> ok
<natewiebe13> thatd be awesome
<mrdoob> I think I had it on h264 mp4
<natewiebe13> okay.. that works too
<mrdoob> actually, maybe I can download it from youtube
<natewiebe13> i'll just try that
<natewiebe13> thanks
<mrdoob> oh, lame
<natewiebe13> haha.. it was 209 kb
<mrdoob> yeah
<mrdoob> even the one I can download from the user panel is 209kb
<mrdoob> doh
<mrdoob> what a feature
<mrdoob> I'll upload the big one later then
<natewiebe13> gotta love file2hd
<dashua> mac_v, I updated MurrinaDust too with the new scrollbars.  I emailed Kido the change to try and get it committed.
<dashua> To Dust trunk
<mrdoob> mat_t: if we're moving out of brown, will the official logo (which isn't vertically aligned properly btw) will also move out of oranges/reds?
<mac_v> dashua: nice... :)
<mac_v> mrdoob: nooooo.... that is brand logo , thats forbidden ;p
<mrdoob> right...
<mrdoob> apple was also coloured at the beginning :P
<mat_t> mrdoob: nothing changes regarding branding atm
<mac_v> mrdoob: only canonical decides that internally, and nothing is going to change atleast for a few yrs
<mrdoob> sure
<mrdoob> but can be used as plan white/black then
<mrdoob> ?
<mat_t> mrdoob: sure it can
<mrdoob> cool
<mrdoob> by the moment it gets used like this, you won't see much the colores version ;)
<mrdoob> *coloured
<ethana2> just use a monochrome 'version' of the logo
<ethana2> ..until people forget there's a colored version
<ethana2> the transition to a unified circle instead of the divided circle, that'd take some more creativity
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22319/screenshot_008_1fytaH.png
<dashua> Better bottom_edge ?
<mac_v> dashua: so much better :)
<dashua> Nice :)
<dashua> Thx
<mrdoob> ethana2: yeah, I've also thought about that, unify circle makes sense
<mrdoob> but the heads become a problem
<mrdoob> if you unify them
<mrdoob> it would look like mickey mouse or just a tit with three nipples
<dashua> I will release a 0.3 version and try for a community theme addition
<mrdoob> (depending how how much you insert the heads)
<dashua> It's pretty solid so far
 * mac_v should one day complete his theme too!
<mac_v> dashua: i dont like 1 thing though , ;p you removed the app icons from the title bars
<dashua> Yeah, that was a papercut I was testing over from Human
<dashua> I can change it back, but the disc looks sort of cool on the dark brown
<mac_v> dashua: i like what you have done with the disk , but it hampers usability
<mac_v> especially for me ;p
<dashua> Ah alright
<mac_v> dashua: i like the idea ,and had tried it , but it needs to be done properly in metacity itself
<dashua> Yeah, I'm sure if you can use both
<dashua> I don't think
<dashua> not*
<mac_v> no you cant set both
<mac_v> dashua: maybe you can use the disk only on hover and for clicks , and for normal state the app icons ?
<dashua> Yeah, I can try that.  That should work.
<ethana2> oh
<ethana2> you leave the heads separate
<ethana2> one circle, three distinct heads
<ethana2> I made like 8 logos
<ethana2> and looked them over
<ethana2> and that's the one that looked best
<ethana2> spiral ones looked cool, but..
<ethana2> 'cool' and 'elegant' aren't always the same thing
<dashua> mac_v, Do you have an image of the new GDM wallpaper alone?
<mac_v> dashua: which one? there are 3 , BTW you can get it form the wiki ?
<dashua> Iteration 3, but I  just want the background
<mac_v> dashua: hehe , i cheated , for my gdm , i blocked the ubuntu logo with a user name ;p
<dashua> Ha, I just want the throbber gone
<ethana2> oh, I had an ubuntu throbber idea
<ethana2> that should be implementable in very little code with no 3d stuff
<ethana2> you have a circle image that's the head things
<ethana2> the middle circle scans around once
<dashua> Oh this will do for testing
<ethana2> then dissapears and one circle is up
<ethana2> then again, then the second circle
<ethana2> again, the third circle
<ethana2> again, then the whole thing goes away
<ethana2> and you're at gdm
<ethana2> there would be some trig
<ethana2> but nothing /too/ fancy
<mrdoob> ethana2: having a circle throbber doesn't work well with the round ubuntu logo on top
<mrdoob> tried it already
<mrdoob> descompensates
<ethana2> what?
<ethana2> mrdoob: ?
<ethana2> the way I'm thinking requires a unified circle logo
<ethana2> which it should be anyways imo
<mac_v> mrdoob: check MadsRH submission in think 2 or 3, circle throbber works great
<mac_v> check out*
<ethana2> mac_v: link?
<mac_v> ethana2: its in the boot submissions page
<mac_v> ethana2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot#Suggestion%20Two
<ethana2> well
<ethana2> that's not what I was thinking, but it's cool
<ethana2> I should find a way to demonstrate my idea
<mrdoob> detach the icon from the logo?
<mrdoob> bye
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<natewiebe13> anyone have the new gdm mockup source files?
<natewiebe13> MadsRH: do you have the source for your demo mockups?
<natewiebe13> thorwil: do you have the source for your demo mockups?
<thorwil> natewiebe13: there's a link to the SVG plus bitmaps used in it at the bottom of my submission
<natewiebe13> thorwil: thanks.. cant believe i missed that
<dashua> mac_v, When you get a chance bzr pull hanso and see if that is a start
<mac_v> dashua: what am i looking for?
<dashua> Added the menu icon and mouse over
<dashua> Removed bottom gradient as well
<dashua> Forget to add that to the message
<mac_v> dashua: works , we both used the same icon ;), as soon as i told you the idea i tried it too   , but how to keep pressed as the icon we assign? it generally dissapears the minute we press it :(
<dashua> Yeah, need to work that one out =/
<dashua> It goes back to the menu_icon_normal when pressed
<mac_v> dashua: the bottom_edge is getting a jagged finish, why is that??
<mac_v> on the R & L sides
<dashua> Not sure
<dashua> I have a small screen so i probably didn't see it
<mac_v> i think it needs to be extended 1 px , on each side , let me check the file
<dashua> Yeah, it looks like its off a px
<dashua> Man, pulse is crashing my gnome-settings-daemon too
<mac_v> pulse is causing a lot of problems! thats my main problem. the settings daemon crash is different from pulse
<dashua> Yeah, pulse just crashed, lost my sound, then my theme
<dashua> Default settings took over
<dashua> Ok, add 1 to right and left edge for a black border
<dashua> I just have to border the bottom_edge
<mac_v> dashua: i dont think we can do anything about it :(
<mac_v> if you add the pixel then the curve shape would be lost
<dashua> Damn, I'll work tweaking it
<mac_v> dashua: check out new wave , it has a more sharper curve so it is not so prominent
<dashua> Ok
<natewiebe13> mac_v: here is a crappy video of my idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJIr6TU17B8
<mac_v> natewiebe13: nice idea :) , you should post the link to the mailing list , too
<natewiebe13> i did.. the video sucks, but i hope it gets my idea across
<mac_v> natewiebe13: your main idea was very short , while the boot was longer , you should have alloted more time to your idea
<natewiebe13> true
<natewiebe13> the boot was just a youtube rip from mrdoobs iteration 3
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22332/screenshot_009_oMPzTL.png
<dashua> Now, that was some work. =/
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/22336/screenshot_012_Ancjgq.png
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10%20Karmic/Artwork%20mockups/02.png
<kwwii> he
<knome> he?
<knome> man?
<kwwii> dashua: nice, classy...sorry for not getting back sooner, I am in Cannes on holiday
<knome> good night/happy holiday kwwii :)
<kwwii> I like the the brown colors, very nice
<kwwii> knome: I have been married to my wife for almost 14 years and she has never seen me this brown, yet where I met here it is very warm and I was nice an brown
<SiDi> too much sun ? :p
<kwwii> germany is evil
<kwwii> SiDi: hehe, no such thing
<SiDi> hm, im going to go sleep
<SiDi> knome: dont forget about flying mice please ! :D
<kwwii> if iat was up to me I would moce here
<SiDi> moce ?
<kwwii> flying mice?
<SiDi> kwwii: see the link knome posted ? I suggested that he adds flying mice around the tree
<SiDi> but he doesnt want to
<SiDi> he prefers damn ordinary birds
<kwwii> lol, I haven't been online for the last week unitl now, basically
<SiDi> us neither actually
<SiDi> knome was in london and i was too busy with rl randomness
<SiDi> i dont know about other members of the internet, didnt ask them yet
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> I imagine that everyone else was just as busy doing nothing like me
<kwwii> bonne nuit, alle insgesamt
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-19
<dashua> kwwii, Ah no worries.  Thx. :)
<mrdoob> mac_v: you there?
<mac_v> dashua: hmm... you made the border darker , it works but the think the lighter one was better ,can pixmaps be used for the bottom border? to avoid the jagged edge?
<mac_v> i think*
<mrdoob> good morning
<mrdoob> mat_t: so there you have the lit version
<mrdoob> Hopefully people can see that there is more on that design than "Oh! it's purple!", and hopefully people will do their own colour version that suit better Ubuntu.
<thorwil> mrdoob: your user list is damn sleek and it connects to the background thanks to the well placed shadow. instead of being somewhat of an alien object
<mrdoob> :D
<mrdoob> yeah, shadows make things easier
<mrdoob> than spotlights
<mrdoob> I'm not 100% happy with it how the panel looks tho, not totally resolved
<mrdoob> but it can be worked out
<thorwil> last time i tried to open a psd in gimp it wasn't possible at all
<thorwil> but this one opens in gimp 2.6.6
<thorwil> as result i mainly see green from Layer 4 and a mix of elements, though
<thorwil> mrdoob: is Layer 4 supposed to have some special layer mode / effect applied to it?
<mrdoob> uh, I can't remember which one it is, and I don't have photoshop here :S
<mrdoob> plus, gimp doesn't have folders
<mrdoob> (as far as I know)
<mrdoob> I usually only name folders
<mrdoob> how the he..
<mrdoob> ok ok, I'll leave gimp alone
<thorwil> yes. that's why i ask, because i can only guess a feature that gimp can't map was used
<thorwil> Layer 4 is just a complete fill in olive green with some variation in the middle and top right
<mrdoob> ah
<mrdoob> yes
<mrdoob> that's supposed to be like that
<mrdoob> It's just a texture
<mrdoob> to give some colours
<mrdoob> it's supposed to be used in overlay or something like that
<mrdoob> that was originally a sand picture
<mrdoob> that I blurred a lot
<mrdoob> It should be bigger (if you move it to the left)
<mat_t> mrdoob: hi
<AnAnt> Hello, is there an intention to make a theme for new GDM in ubuntu ?
<mat_t> AnAnt: yes, we're just about to start working on it
<mat_t> mrdoob: I love the depth and the gdm styling, the bg color is "a bit" over the top :)
<mat_t> mrdoob: would be nice to see a version with a more gentle background
<thorwil> i'm working on one
<AnAnt> mat_t: is there a repository or wiki that I can look at ?
<mat_t> AnAnt: are you interesting in helping with technical implementation or design?
<AnAnt> mat_t: I want to make a theme, but I dunno how
<mat_t> thorwil: great
<AnAnt> mat_t: what do you  mean by technical implementation ?
<mat_t> AnAnt: I'd probably ask thorwil or mac_v to help you get started
<AnAnt> thorwil: is your work available online ?
 * mat_t > lunch
<AnAnt> I want to know how to make a theme for new GDM
<thorwil> AnAnt: are you familiar with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot?
<mrdoob> mat_t: I'm not going to do anything more. Feel free to play with gimp/photoshop to reach a version that you like.
<AnAnt> thorwil: ah, looking at it now, thanks
<mrdoob> mat_t: but glad to know you liked the style
<AnAnt> thorwil: these are just mockups, right ?
<thorwil> yes
<AnAnt> thorwil: aren't there any actual themes that I can take as an example ?
<AnAnt> usplash isn't used at startup anymore ?
<thorwil> AnAnt: sure. but i'm not sure about changes and incompatibilities between the used gdm versions
<AnAnt> thorwil: where can I get them ?
<thorwil> AnAnt: can't help you with that
<AnAnt> well, is there a wiki where I get info how to make a theme for new GDM ?
<thorwil> AnAnt: i would simply search for gdm documentation and check whether it applies to the version that will be shipped with karmic
<mac_v> AnAnt: AFAIK the new theme is not very customizable , it is hardcoded
<mac_v> gdm *
<AnAnt> mac_v: ah, you mean those themes will be hardcoded into GDM ?
<AnAnt> so branding won't be easy
<mac_v> AnAnt: the gdm code had been changed more than a year ago by upstream, ubuntu had not implemented the new gdm to allow users select the themes , the gdm graphical tool is being done as an ubuntu initiative > Bug #395299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395299 in gdm "gdm 2.26 has no graphical configuration tool" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395299
<mac_v> AnAnt: so users, as of now, wont be able to easily toggle gdm themes
<AnAnt> mac_v: aha, thanks
<AnAnt> mac_v: does that also apply to boot splash ? I read on this wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot), that it won't be usplash, but rather X based
<mac_v> AnAnt: yes default is only xsplash ,  but you can change it ;) to usplash if you want , the xplash coding isnt fully clear ... BTW, what is it you are actually looking for?
<mac_v> AnAnt: changing only for personal use ? or to make themes for users?
<AnAnt> mac_v: for users
<AnAnt> mac_v: I'm working on a distro based on Ubuntu
<mac_v> AnAnt: if you want to change the default for your distro , you could do that , but the users selecting/changing the themes for gdm is not easy ; xsplash i'm not sure
<mac_v> AnAnt: which distro, may i ask ?
<AnAnt> sabily
<AnAnt> mac_v: so, how can I change boot splash from xplash to usplash ?
<mac_v> AnAnt: i'm not sure of that, most of others here wouldnt know the technical details either , you could ask #ubuntu+1 ,someone might know
<AnAnt> ok, thanks
<mac_v> AnAnt: my guess would be just replace xsplash with usplash
<mac_v> np
<mac_v> mrdoob: gave up on the boot ? ;p
<mat_t> mrdoob: no worries, thanks a lot for your input!
<mac_v> mat_t: could you add some intro to this page? as to how it should be directed and stuff > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Login
<thorwil> http://www.blendernation.com/tutorial-painting-time-lapse-by-david-revoy/
<mat_t> mac_v: there you go
<mac_v> mat_t: thanx :)
<mac_v> mat_t: you might wanna inform the mailing list about this page, to get more ideas
 * mac_v going to be killed soon ;p
<mrdoob1> mac_v: no no, haven't give up the boot. It's just that I have other things to do, learning Android/OpenGL ES at the moment :D
<mrdoob1> mat_t: you're welcome, I hope I was any use
<thorwil> mac_v: i said you should talk with mat_t, not get him to do all the work ;)
<mac_v> thorwil: sssh!
<mac_v> :0
<mac_v> thorwil: actually i didnt know what direction he would want :( , also the mail to the list is out of my league
<mat_t> thorwil: that was just ctrl+v, not to worry :)
 * mac_v was feeling bad for over-burdening mat_t :/
<mac_v> hmm...
 * SiDi yawns
 * mat_t does not undertake any tasks that actually involve work
<mat_t> (with few exceptions)
<SiDi> like, when it's Canonical who asks ? :P
<mac_v> mat_t: could you send the mail to the list about the gdm ideas? :)
 * mat_t has a bit of a weak spot for sabdfl, true
<mat_t> mac_v: no
<mac_v> ah well...
<mat_t> ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: I'll get kwwii to do some work when he gets back from his undeserved holidays
<mac_v> lol
<mac_v> mat_t: he was here yesterday
<SiDi> mat_t: we can manage to not let him leave France, and then you're forced to work
<mat_t> SiDi: sounds great
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=mrdoob_07_tw_splash.png
<SiDi> That's... bright
 * thorwil wonders if SiDi is, too
<mac_v> thorwil: needs more shadow
<mac_v> for the logo
<mrdoob> thorwil: maybe you should put your iteration under the comments to avoid confusion
<mrdoob> interesting edit by the way
<mrdoob> a shame the throbber (however it's spelled) is lost in the f0f0f0 range :S
<thorwil> mrdoob: dang, i actually meant to place that after the comments
<mrdoob> :]
<mrdoob> a benefit of using only black/grey version of the logo
<mrdoob> is that the integration with the environment is cheap, if you think about light refraction
<mrdoob> in your design the logo perhaps doesn't fit much because the environment doesn't get affected by it
<mac_v> thorwil: hehe... i think the boot fits perfectly for mint linux
<mrdoob> meaning this: http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~henrik/images/imgs/cbox_spectral.jpg
<thorwil> mrdoob: i tried all white. didn't work. all black is too harsh
<thorwil> mrdoob: there actually is slight coloration from the background on the logo
<thorwil> mrdoob: you wouldn't see much in the other direction with real objects in such a setting
<mrdoob> well on the bottom
<mrdoob> actually
<mrdoob> I should have also shared the 3D file I did for generating the background...
<mat_t> thorwil: uh, everything but green please... :)
<mrdoob> what's with the competition with Mint?
<thorwil> mat_t: no lighter brown tones, no orange, no yellow. no purple or pink. to cold tones and now also no green
<thorwil> great
<mrdoob> haha
<mrdoob> mat_t: sounds like a proper client
<mat_t> :)
<mrdoob> thorwil: an idea I had to avoid all the colour bullshit thing would be to make it multicolour
<mrdoob> something like this
<mrdoob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/UbuntuColorsIcons?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=themesthumb.png
<mrdoob> more subtle of course
<thorwil> mrdoob: i have been a proponent of a 2 or 3 tone approach since long. actually my edit contains green, beige and blue tones
<mrdoob> ops... str_replace("buillshit","annoyance");
<thorwil> mrdoob: no, it was right and now is wrong ;)
<mrdoob> haha
<mrdoob> svn revert
<thorwil> i thought a bit about a non-center position for the logo. golden section. following account selection would be tricky to layout, though
<mrdoob> that is tricky if you don't have much control of the target resolution
<thorwil> mrdoob: you mentioned a 3d file. blender?
<mrdoob> center is safe
<mrdoob> thorwil: unfortunatelly 3dsmax :(
<mrdoob> I could have done it in blender, I haven't used to it yet, can I import .svg to blender?
<thorwil> yes
<mrdoob> uhm, right, I wasted more time installing illustrator for converting the .svg to .ai and then importing on .max than learning blender and importing .svg
<mrdoob> :(
<thorwil> not sure about that
<thorwil> first steps into blender are hard
<mrdoob> but it isn't much, it's a wall/floor with round connection
<mrdoob> and 3 lights
<mrdoob> at first I had the logo in 3d too, but I redid then I rendered the background alone and redid the logo/shadow on photoshop
<mrdoob> to have more control
<thorwil> just yesterday i started to do the same in blender
<thorwil> light setup showed to be tricky
<thorwil> have to cut and get other things done :/
<mrdoob> know the feeling :)
<mrdoob> natewiebe13: hello
<natewiebe13> hey
<mrdoob> how did you ended up doing the video?
<natewiebe13> blender
<natewiebe13> haha
<natewiebe13> i didnt care about quality, just about getting the point across
<mrdoob> natewiebe13: oh, didn't know blender could do that
<mrdoob> the problem is, I don't think you make it clear enough to show your point
<mrdoob> the boot eats 80% of your video
<mrdoob> and that's the fastes boot I did
<mrdoob> so your part goes too fast and is hard to understand what you're trying to communicate
<mrdoob> (I think)
<natewiebe13> i know.. i havent had time to change it yet.. i had 10 minutes to throw something together and throw it up
<natewiebe13> when i have time. im going to redo it
<mrdoob> cool
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<natewiebe13> mrdoob: have you seen MadsRH edit to your iteration 6?
<mrdoob> yep
<mrdoob> I'm starting to think that it's way to saturated
<natewiebe13> a bit, but it think that the ubuntu logo needs to be colored and not just black
<natewiebe13> kind of like thorwil's edit
<natewiebe13> but i very much like the mockup
<mrdoob> :)
<natewiebe13> mac_v: i like your splash's
<natewiebe13> mac_v: but i think you should do an orange one.. MadsRH's is too dark/saturated, if you were to do an orange one.. i think it would be the best.. but good job btw.
<mac_v> natewiebe13: mat said he didnt want tan or brown  , and orange falls a bit close , anyway ,if the design team wants to do an orange one the surely could do one , but they seems to have some other plans
<natewiebe13> yeah.. i really dont like what they've been spitting out
<natewiebe13> madsrh and mrdoob have the best ones (also said by many comments) why dont they just listen to the community?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-20
<MadsRH> mat_t: Hi Mat. Are there any plans to make the GDM theme match the desktop theme (human/dust)? Or perhaps the opposite, a new theme (karmic+1) that matches the GDM?
<MadsRH> mac_v: What's up with the *huge* Iteration 6 edit images? LOL :P
<mac_v> MadsRH: to get mat_t's attention ;p
<MadsRH> mac_v: :-D
<mrdoob> mat_t: any progress on the official boot/gdm design?
<mrdoob> right
<mrdoob> well, hopefully MadsRH will be back...
<mat_t> mrdoob: hey, yes, we're working on it!
<mrdoob> mat_t: good good
<mat_t> mrdoob: really liked your concept, unfortunately current gdm would not allow us to do buttons and menus like that without major re-development
<mrdoob> I see
<mat_t> mrdoob: also really liked the depth effect
<mrdoob> :)
<mrdoob> well, my intention was to suggest another style
<mrdoob> it doesn't need to look 100% like it is
<mrdoob> I'll take a quick look on the gdm documentation
<mrdoob> which version are you using?
<mat_t> mrdoob: the most recent one
<mat_t> not sure what no. it is
<mat_t> mrdoob: we're quite restricted in terms of theme engine capabilities + gdm codebase + (really, the most important) time + people
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mat_t> Question: would someone be interested in helping improving this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
<mrdoob> mat_t: I suspect the later is the actual bottle neck :)
<mat_t> mrdoob: as usual :)
<MadsRH> mat_t: What exactly should be improved? the layout, text, etc.?
<mat_t> MadsRH: I'm working on the content analysis atm, but I guess just making sure it's up to date, some copy changes + adding screenshots for each step
<mat_t> Generally making it beginner-friendly
<mat_t> Would be a great improvement to have a nice walkthrough for each option
<MadsRH> mat_t: I agree. I'm not sure if I'll find the time to look into this (spenting all my time on boot mockups LOL), but if I to I'll give it a shot. Nothing promised O:-)
<mat_t> thanks MadsRH - I'll let you know when I have some more info
<MadsRH> mat_t: please do
<mac_v> dashua: ping :)
<mac_v> dashua: when did Dust Sand change? only now , i notice there have been some nice changes
<natewiebe13> mac_v: 1 or 2 days ago?
<natewiebe13> i remember seeing it
<mac_v> natewiebe13: yeah , yesterday
<mac_v> just checked the history :)
<natewiebe13> okay
<mac_v> i was wondering if the Karmic edition itself was different 0.o
<dashua> mac_v, Heya
<dashua> Clearlooks refs are deprecated.
<mac_v> dashua: yeah , have to update my custom theme! :(
<dashua> Did 0.4 gnome-themes-ubuntu hit Karmic yet?
<dashua> Murrine changes are in there
<mac_v> dashua: yup , just yesterday
<dashua> Ah cool
<mac_v> dashua: BTW , any luck with the Hanso bottom edge? i think the lighter one looks better :)
<dashua> Some progress, I need to fix a few more things
<dashua> I like the bottom as well light
<SiDi> is there still a reason for having gnome-themes-ubuntu and community-themes separated ?
<dashua> Not really
<dashua> gnome-themes-ubuntu are community themes
<SiDi> i'll write a report tomorrow to ask why they're separated
 * SiDi wants a generic gtk-themes package for the community, with damn XFWM THEMES inside it :P
<dashua> There are only four in there
<dashua> Hehe nice
<dashua> And there are only two in community-themes
<dashua> Kin and Impression
<dashua> No pulseaudio crashes in 12 hours.  A miracle.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-21
<techman2> hey MadsRH
<MadsRH> techman2: Hi
<techman2> I've been loving some of your ideas for new artwork :)
<MadsRH> techman2: the boot mockups?
<techman2> yeah
<techman2> very slick
<MadsRH> techman2: Thanks :-)
<techman2> :)
<techman2> how did you create them?
 * techman2 should point out he has 0 artistic ability.
<MadsRH> I didn't :P MrDoob did. I just modified his version, so all the credit must go to him :-D
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<raozuzu> hi FLOZz!
<FLOZz_> Hello all  _o/
<Snaque> hi!
 * darkmatter feeds you all to his pet closet monster
<mac_v> lol
<mrdoob> does anyone know if the droid font (from android) could be added as default on ubuntu
<mrdoob> I mean, legally.
<SiDi> mrdoob: is it the droid ttf font?
<SiDi> Do you have a screenshot please ?
<mrdoob> http://www.stefanoforenza.com/get-androids-fonts-on-ubuntu-how-to/
<mrdoob> there you have one
<FLOZz> Bye
<mrdoob> I just wonder if Ubuntu is not using that one by default for legal reasons, or any other reason
<mrdoob> I think it's way better than the default one
<ckontros> dashua: I would nix Hanso having "Humanity" as a depend.
<ckontros> dashua: Also a big "kick ass" to the theme in general. (tinkering with it now)
<ckontros> dashua: I would kill lines 588-602 (the bold font stuff) as overriding the systems font handling makes the panel look odd.
<ckontros> dashua: (i read why you have them there though)
<ckontros> dashua: PM me or hit me up in a email. I'd like to chat about another art, thing. Later.
<mrdoob> SiDi: ?
<SiDi> mrdoob: ?
<SiDi> ah, sorry
<SiDi> didnt notice the answer,t hanks :D
<SiDi> mrdoob: as i thought, its the font i'm using :d
<mrdoob> righttt
<mrdoob> hehe
<SiDi> its space-savvy yeh
<mrdoob> and crisp
<SiDi> but im not sure how 40yo+ with viewing trouble people would manage to read it
<Snaque> it looks a bit cramped
<Snaque> that is, it looks like a font for a tiny scren :)
<SiDi> Snaque: thats what it is :d
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-22
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mac_v> mrdoob: nice :) , but wouldnt that be tan or brown? what mat did not want , i would personally like something what you or MadsRH have done though :)
<mrdoob> well
<mrdoob> I don't know..
<mrdoob> :)
<mrdoob> if it's orange/brown, because it's orange/brown
<mrdoob> if it's green, because it like opensuse (or whatever)
<mrdoob> when it's blue...
<mrdoob> you know
<mrdoob> I think ubuntu can work with orange/brown, is just a matter of using it right, and realise that people don't like orange/brown because it hasn't been used right, and not because orange/brown are bad
<mac_v> mrdoob: yeah , hence i had done  , the ones i did ,  less saturated so that you cant specifically point to a color ;p
<mrdoob> yeah
<mrdoob> I though the orange one was interesting, but then the grey panels didn't worked too well
<mrdoob> so with dark wrong it gets more integrated/elegant (I think)
<mrdoob> altough I have a problem with saturated colours
<mac_v> mrdoob:  both yours and MadsRH are quite catchy  , its just the design team :(
<mrdoob> I always end up saturating too much
<mac_v> mrdoob: yeah , your initial one was *very* saturated , the third one i submitted was basically yours but drained of color
<mrdoob> yeah
<mrdoob> it was cool to see people playing with the .psd :)
<mrdoob> is there any link that defines the limitations of the GDM?
<ckontros> Is there ever? :P It's always code, code, code. Best you can do is contact MacSlow.
<mrdoob> the guy doing the notify-osd thing?
<ckontros> Among other things.
<mrdoob> Mirco Muller
<mrdoob> ok
<mrdoob> do you have his email?
<ckontros> Not handy. IS easy to Google.
<mrdoob> ok
<ckontros> There are certainly other players in this new GDM but Mirco has been my contact.
<mrdoob> ok
<mrdoob> sent him an email
<mrdoob> we'll where this ends up
<mrdoob> *we'll see
<mac_v> mrdoob: or you could contact him quickly in #ubuntu-desktop on UTC working hrs
<mac_v> *quicker !
<mrdoob> nah, that's too intrussive :)
<mrdoob> email is good by now :)
<mrdoob> thanks
<mac_v> mrdoob: actually email is intrusive ;)
<mrdoob> anything is intrusive
<mac_v> unless you know the person before-hand
<mrdoob> but I think: phone irc email
<mrdoob> in that order
<mac_v> lol , imagine if people started listing their phone#
<mrdoob> well, you know, if he has his emails on launchpad
<mrdoob> I guess is to allow get contacted like this
<ckontros> Email is the preferred method among Ubuntu developers for things like this. Lets them better track things and reply when they can.
<mrdoob> exactly what I mean :)
 * mac_v finds some dont respond to emails! maybe its just me ;p
 * ckontros takes a whack @ mac_v's self-esteem and agrees with him. Yes. it's you. ;)
 * mac_v was actually referring to ckontros not responding to some mails , so i think its clearer now
<mac_v> ;p
<ckontros> Alot of the time I hit you up here instead. ;)
<mac_v> ckontros: why is breathe timeline refering to hardy and hardy+1?
<ckontros> Because I'm an old fart that's been doin' this too damn long. (fixed)
<mac_v> *correction old stinky fart ;p
<ckontros> I gotta re-organize the front page a little now also. Now that we have releases, I wanna make actually getting the icons a little more prominent.
<mac_v> ckontros: how about adding a 14px for the lp page? that will show up in the karma and stuff
<ckontros> I might. But really, only kids care about Karma. :P
<mac_v> ckontros: well kids are running Ubuntu for now , move over old man ;)
<ckontros> If you think so.
<mac_v> i notice lot of young faces , especially in the design team
<mrdoob> how old are you guys?
<mrdoob> 50?
<ckontros> mac_v won't actually say. :)
 * mac_v feels very old :( but still 28
<ckontros> (keeps avoiding it)
<mac_v> ckontros: ^there you go
<ckontros> 'bout time.
 * ckontros is 33
<mac_v> ckontros: you never asked directly like mrdoob ;)
<ckontros> You had enough opportunities. :)
<mac_v> mrdoob: and you ? ;)
<mrdoob> heh
<mrdoob> 17
 * mac_v now really feels old!
<mrdoob> haha
<mrdoob> nah, just kidding
<mrdoob> 27
<mac_v> phew
<mrdoob> lucazade: does your nick come from the drink?
<lucazade> yes mrdoob
<lucazade> i was found of lucozade was i was young so..
<mrdoob> not liking it anymore?
<mrdoob> orange one is cool
<lucazade> haven't found no more, doesn't exist here in italy
<lucazade> seen only in uk
<mrdoob> ah
<lucazade> :)
<mrdoob> I should have nicknamed myself vanillacake then :)
<lucazade> eheheh lol
<lucazade> luca is my name btw
<mrdoob> ah, that makes sense then
<lucazade> yep mixed
<ckontros> Waaaaaayyy off topic but anyone know of an app to send text messages to phones?
<lucazade> moiosms (dunno if only for italian isp)
 * ckontros looks around
<lucazade> http://ilpinguinofurioso.wordpress.com/2007/08/15/spedire-sms-gratis-con-linux-ubuntu-704/
<mac_v> ckontros: gmail sends text to US phones
<ckontros> mac_v: Do you know if Pidgin supports it? Or just web?
<mac_v> ckontros: nope , AFAIK its only web based
<ckontros> Gotcha
<mac_v> even yahoo does but the recipient will have to reply atleast once for every 3 text
<ckontros> mac_v: Thanx man. The Gmail thing works in a pinch.
<ckontros> FYI: http://readerszone.com/google/sms-text-messaging-from-gmail.html
<mac_v> np :)
<mac_v> ckontros: do you know about hotkeys ? [just thought you might since -> Ubuntu Studio]
<ckontros> For what app?
<ckontros> But generally, I have to look them up myself.
<mac_v> ckontros: not specific to apps , my hotkeys just stop working often , i clear the .gnome2 , .config .gconf and they start working , i havent been able to pinpoint the location for these settings , do you knwo where these are stored?
<mac_v> know*
<ckontros> Not off-hand but I'll look. I wanna say .gnome2 though.
<mac_v> that was my guess too , i somehow manage to not find it. :(
<mac_v> i'm gonna test with a new user , will be back in a few mins , let me know if you find something :)
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-08-23
<tretle1> is there a working version of this yet? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot/Demo
<CarlosxD_> Hi
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<knome> just a note on the xubuntu artwork: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2009-August/007027.html
<mac_v> knome: nice 404 for the emonk links ;)
<knome> mac_v, remove the .
<mac_v> oh
<knome> looks like mailman couldn't parse the urls correctly
<mac_v> didnt notive the nasy dots ! yeah some people add dots which mess things up :)
<mac_v> notice*
<knome> dots make it grammatically correct
<MadsRH> knome: looks really good :-)
<knome> MadsRH, thanks
<MadsRH> Is there a mockup of the GDM yet?
<knome> MadsRH, that would be the gdm
<MadsRH> or will it be based on the Ubuntu one?
<mac_v> knome: actually the dots can be added with a space , that wont mess up mailman
<knome> MadsRH, read the mail ;)
<knome> mac_v, but again, that's not grammatically correct ;)
<MadsRH> knome: sorry, only checked the links
<mac_v> knome: grammer shrammer boo ;p
<knome> MadsRH, no problem. glad you like it though ;)
<knome> mac_v, mailman boo
<mac_v> knome: i like it  , really nice :) how about one for ubuntu ;)
<knome> seems like ubuntu is going in a bit different direction
<knome> it's easy to make [inser-color-name-here] version as the artwork is SVG
<knome> if you mean you'd like a brown one for ubuntu
<mac_v> yeah but where's the svg? o.0
<knome> on my harddrive, soon in the xubuntu-artwork source package
<knome> mac_v, if you need it right now, i can send it to you by email or upload it somewhere.
<knome> though i'd rather let you download it from the x-a sources ;P
<mac_v> knome:  could you upload pls? :)
<knome> mac_v, really, is there rush?
<knome> the svg is still quite big (2.3M) and will have many changes before release
<mac_v> no rush, i dont want the whole x-a source ;)
<knome> :P
<mac_v> though i dont mind waiting for the changes to be done :)
<knome> right
<knome> i'll upload once we are ready (or almost ready)
<mac_v> that would be great _o/
<MadsRH> knome: Why don't Xubuntu post artwork releated thread on the ubuntu-art mailinglist? It would be a good resource for feedback.
<mac_v> they are ninja mice , i guess ;p
<MadsRH> mac_v: :P
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<mrmcq2u> anyone from canonical here?
<mrmcq2u> has any work been done on the gdm theme beyond mockups?
<thorwil> the weekend is not good time to ask, if you want a response from the design team at canonical
<thorwil> also consider london timezone with usual bureau schedule
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-23
<Cimi> ivanka: welcome back :)
<ivanka> hi cimi - thank you :-)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-24
<thorwil> iainfarrell: hi! are there some rough ideas of what the design track of the next UDS could be about, already?
<iainfarrell> hey thorwil
<iainfarrell> we're starting to think about it
<iainfarrell> but make blueprints of ideas
<iainfarrell> by all means
<iainfarrell> and we can start to look at them
 * thorwil has to beat up the loud, far out there ideas, so the modest ones get a chance
<vish> thorwil: i was thinking we need a session "Reviving the artwork" team!
<vish> or dissolving it ;p
<thorwil> vish: well, the countdown banner and flickr things work. deviantart i havn't checked. what difference would it make to dissolve the "team"?
<vish> thorwil: make it a 'countdown banner team' ;)
<Guest35845> hello
<Guest35845> I've question about tool used to generate this picture : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundMenu
<Guest35845> which software is used to do this ?
<thorwil> Guest35845: mpt's work, who can be found in #ayatana. i think those are scanned drawings
<Guest35845> ok thx
<vish> thorwil: is there a ppa with inkscape .48 ?
<vish> or did you build it?
<thorwil> vish: don't know, yes
<vish> k.
<vish> thorwil: btw, i found the option to embed images in inkscape .47 too! :)
<mikebeecham> hi guys...does anyone know when the Ubuntu Sans font will be released?
<thorwil> mikebeecham: seems to be on a when-it's-done schedule now
<mikebeecham> thorwil, fair point....I could just do with it in my artwork about now :D
<mikebeecham> for anyone who's interested...my latest wallpaper for Ubuntu: http://mikebeecham.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2x6bt6
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-25
<mikebeecham> Who would I speak to, to find out if I could contribute to the design work in Ubuntu?
<thorwil> same minute gotta be record
<thorwil> mikebeecham: if you have something other than wallpapers and alternative themes in mind, you could try talking to iainfarrell during london office hours
<mikebeecham> thorwil, I'm an interface designer...so yeah it would be more than wallpapers and alternative themes (which I would be surprised if they wern't inundated with!!)
<mikebeecham> would you have an email for him...I could perhaps drop him an email with my previous experience in it.
<knome> mikebeecham, iain.farrell@canonical.com
<mikebeecham> knome, thank you very much.  I'll be sure to contact them.
<mikebeecham> Just out of interest...do you know if they only accept 'professional' help? or will they accept contribution from anyone who will have the talent to bring something?
<thorwil> mikebeecham: it seem the intended channel for contributions regarding interface design is the ayatana list.
<mikebeecham> ok.  Good to know.  I've worked on the XBMC and Plex projects, as well as carrying out work on the Android platform...I'm just making sure that I wouldn't be wasting an email, thats all
<thorwil> mikebeecham: i'd say design contributions have to convince on a case by case basis ... but you very rarely see input from the community making it
 * thorwil -> pudding
<mikebeecham> thorwil, is that because there are so few talented individuals within the community (design-wise) or because Canonical choose not to use the community for it's projects?
<thorwil> mikebeecham: yes and it's just that designers working full-time, face-to-face in london work to a different beat, i think
<thorwil> mikebeecham: aside of the quality of a contribution, it's about filling a niche. cover a need, show something at the right time ...
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-26
<smallfoot-> ok who is the idiot who fucked up the wallpaper?
<smallfoot-> i had a nice pretty purple wallpaper
<smallfoot-> then ran apt-get update, and some idiot added some dumb ugly brown balls onto the wallpaper
<smallfoot-> orange on purple ? wtf man?
<smallfoot-> the guy is colorblind?
<Equiet> :)
<smallfoot-> is there no voting on the wallpaper?
<smallfoot-> some idiot can just submit it and it gets accepted?
<knome> calm down
<smallfoot-> ubuntu wallpapers is not up to par with macosx and win7
<mikebeecham> I was hoping to speak to someone about canonical?
<mikebeecham> if anyone is around
<kmrs75> about what
<mikebeecham> well, I'm interested in getting involved with the artwork for Ubuntu, but speaking to Thorwill last night, he made it sound as though there's no way it would happen...because I'm from the 'community'
<mikebeecham> I'm trying to understand why, really
<mikebeecham> I'm not some meathead who just likes opening up photoshop to create a wallpaper
<mikebeecham> I do this stuff for a living
<kmrs75> what do you mean? not from the community -- if you mean windows or mac - he is prob right -
<knome> mikebeecham, iainfarrell is the one you probably should talk with.
<mikebeecham> ubuntu community
<kmrs75> do you use ubuntu ?
<mikebeecham> I'm a designer...it's what I do.  But it sounds like Canonical are very choosy about who they ask to do work for them
<mikebeecham> kmrs75, yes
<mikebeecham> have been for about 4 years now
<mikebeecham> knome, Thorwill gave me his details, but I dont want to start firing off emails if it's going to be a waste of time
<mikebeecham> I mean...I've been invited to display my work on Behance.net, if you know anything about it
<knome> mikebeecham, he's on irc as well, just not right now.
<knome> mikebeecham, sending email to him will not be bad either. he's a nice guy.
<kmrs75> i haven't ever submitted anything to canonical -- so i cant be of help there - but i know people that have done submits and some have been used
<mikebeecham> The other issue is...I wonder how bothered they will want to be to have someone come on board and 'do' stuff.  I'm not being funny but I've seen the latest proposed default wallpaper for Maverick, and it's.....not good.
<mikebeecham> and I'm not the best designer in the world and I can see it
<mikebeecham> I'm concerned that it will be a case of "hey, we like doing things our way...you dont like it, then p*** off"
<mikebeecham> I've been around that mindset a lot in the past
<knome> mikebeecham, honestly, ranting in irc won't help. send iain an email telling what you've done, etc. and he can either point you to somebody else or discuss further.
<mikebeecham> knome, thanks...will do
<knome> mikebeecham, as i said, he's a nice guy, and he won't get aggressive even if you did send him an email
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-27
<mikebeecham> ok knome
<mikebeecham> cheers
<knome> contributing to ubuntu is possible, but as thorwil said, canonical is putting a lot of money in design, so they'll probably want to use what they pay for ;)
<knome> of course, there are open positions now and then...
<mikebeecham> sure, I guess if they're pouring money into it then they will want to get thier money's worth
<kklimonda> hey, can circle of friends in logo be in any way modified? for example adding a national flag into it?
<vish> kklimonda: if its not meant for 'Ubuntu' , but rather for a LoCo , yes..
<kklimonda> vish: hmm.. how to distinct one from the other?
<kklimonda> vish: by LoCo you mean all sites that are related to our local community and by Ubuntu... sites not related to the community? ;)
<kklimonda> vish: so for http://www.dell.com/ubuntu you can't modify logo in any way but in the LoCo case you can.. add some local flavour? :)
<kklimonda> vish: do the rest of guidelines are still in effect?
<vish> kklimonda: well , does the symbol refer to the Ubuntu OS , then guidelines apply , if not.. we can go crazy as we please ;)
<vish> kklimonda: yeah , like the dell example they have to use the Ubuntu logo as prescribed :)
<mikebeecham> was thinking about incorporating Ubuntu somehow into my artpiece: http://img683.imageshack.us/f/lostw.png/
<darkmatter> vish: thorwil: how does the tip of a paint brush (just the bristles/small part of the handle showing) blending through like, maybe 2 or 3 different colors of paint splatters sound for a new gimp app watermark? in color for the toolbox, greyscale (so its recolorable) in the image windows. instead of googley eyes that have shit to do with image editing/composition
<vish> hrm!
 * vish tries to comprehend that^
 * darkmatter is working on a gimp theme (icons and gtkrc) along with some new defaults, mainly for personal use, but thought I'd drop it off in a few suggestion boxes for kicks
<darkmatter> gonna keep the utility windows separate but de-wharf them (they are huge by default after all). turn the toolbox into an actual toolbox (have only the most essential tools shown by default) blah blah
<darkmatter> something more beginner friendly and polished feeling
<vish> darkmatter: how about first changing the name? :)
<darkmatter> I've seen users (mostly clients) almost shit a brick the first time they crack the beast open
<darkmatter> vish: that too :P
<darkmatter> fun name or elegant name? we could just rebrand it as Pixel Pusher :P
<vish> hehe!
<darkmatter> fork/branch it in a non retarded way with gimp proper and be nice and friendly and sharing with the gimp devs. you know. since it takes them 10+ years to implement interface bugs and the like :D
<darkmatter> still compatible way*
<darkmatter> vish: I actual kinda think Pixel Pusher _would_ be fitting (reasoning(s) are obvious enough). but anything is more fitting than The GIMP
<vish> yeah , the Double P  !
<thorwil> it think it should be renamed into something less plurivalent. like Rubbersuit or Limp :)
<thorwil> darkmatter: you could as well dance to describe music. gotta see that
<darkmatter> thorwil: bah.
<darkmatter> how about a branch/fork name "Inosukliekdad" then? :P
<troy_s> thorwil: How goes it thor? Greets to the rest of the droogs.
<thorwil> troy_s: heh, excellent timing, as i'm gone for dinner now :)
<troy_s> thorwil: It's YOUR timezone
<troy_s> thorwil: NOT MINE
<troy_s> thorwil: Got it pal?
<darkmatter> vish: the actual root of my reasoning is thus. I have some design ideas for a graphics editor and would actually like to test them out (as many as I can at least, some will have to remain conceptual for the time being). the easiest way to do that in a reasonable fashion is to reconfigure an existing app, and the only one flexible enough in terms of ui setting we have is the gimp. that can be either a bane or a boon, depending on how y
<darkmatter> I mean. I _could_ just do some .ui files, but you can't actually interact with those
<thorwil> troy_s: actually no
<troy_s> thorwil: Lol.
<troy_s> thorwil: How are things?
<thorwil> troy_s: fine. payed project running well, will have some time during the weekend to take on other stuff. and you?
<thorwil> nice to have online translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fubuntulife.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F08%2F02%2Fnuevo-logo-para-full-circle%2F&sl=es&tl=en
<troy_s> thorwil: That's one of the reasons I use Chrome. It integrates into translate.
<troy_s> thorwil: I wish cm would get solved.
<thorwil> cm?
<troy_s> thorwil: Color management
<troy_s> thorwil: Sadly lacking in it currently (in Linux and suffers with various pipeline design mistakes on other platforms)
<troy_s> thorwil: What face is that full circle?
<troy_s> (5/6)
<troy_s> your creation?
<thorwil> troy_s: custom, yes. i had to see once again how geometric constructions tend to end up somewhat brutal :)
<thorwil> the new Full Circle logo will be based on the middle one on http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/full_circle_magazine_set_03.png
<thorwil> ready, but under wraps until then
<troy_s> thorwil: Brutal is probably an execution thing. The first e in your samples for example, isn't necessarily brutal or otherwise.
<troy_s> thorwil: Which leads me to the idea that it is probably the collection as a whole and less the individual parts. Might have gotten somewhere just focusing on the type...
<troy_s> thorwil: The 'safe' choice isn't really an awful one anyways.
<troy_s> thorwil: Although that tagline is more of a bookline.
<thorwil> i shortened it later on, but don't know if the magazine will follow there
<troy_s> thorwil: There is likely a better phrasing that turns it into a proper tag. Two lines is hardly a tagline.
<troy_s> thorwil: Have you seen the new alternate wallpaper selections (contest driven rubbish aside - another topic worth looking at)?
<thorwil> troy_s: yes. i also saw and still try to forget the new default (hoping it's temporary)
<troy_s> thorwil: Oh it's just a 'test' I'm sure ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: I'm very impressed with the selection. Whoever did it deserves kudos.
<thorwil> troy_s: yes, at least 2 steps up from last time
<troy_s> thorwil: It is the most cohesive set I have seen yet in Ubuntu proper. Solid photography and a very well planned mixture of tone / subject.
<troy_s> thorwil: Very impressed.
<thorwil> though this one would drive me insane on my desktop: http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/THbTNrSvERI/AAAAAAAAJaY/4x3nHIE4fTk/s1600-h/Blue_box_number_2_by_orb9220%5B3%5D.jpg
<thorwil> http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/THbTdUGPaFI/AAAAAAAAJbk/5veZoNIyrl4/s1600-h/Primer_Amanecer_2010_by_letoloke%5B3%5D.jpg  makes me wonder if the bend shouldn't be in the other direction or be eliminated to have a flat line
<troy_s> thorwil: Maybe. I find the second rather... meh, but it has a pretty solid purpose in the set.
<troy_s> thorwil: I tend to view those as a mise-en-scene - a contextual set.
<troy_s> thorwil: And in that light, it has a pretty darn compelling reason to be there. It is a variant on subject _and_ fills a tonal need (to break up the monotony)
<troy_s> thorwil: I suppose there is a question 'how to improve the set' which is a cool question to ask.
<troy_s> thorwil: Because it isn't an easy answer. Do you try to hint at an overarching thematic (and yeah, the vast bulk of the contribution would be probably hammer-over-head heavy)? Or is there something more clever to play with there?
<thorwil> well, one could add race stripes and a spoiler to http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FJH0hYZmVtc/THbTMCUzGGI/AAAAAAAAJaQ/ROgmSmbAzsQ/s1600-h/Aeg_by_Tauno_Erik%5B2%5D.jpg
<troy_s> thorwil: It would be a lovely thing to actually _discuss_ with a group of clever minds really.
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> thorwil: He's cute enough without racing stripes.
<troy_s> thorwil: It's a great set. I applaud whoever issued the selections.
<troy_s> thorwil: No complaints there. The default wallpaper on the other hand...
<thorwil> i have to make such a comment right before you mention "to actually discuss" and "group of clever minds"!
<troy_s> thorwil: Nothing short of a monumental misstep and ridiculous design context. I can't exactly fault someone for sad execution as there isn't anything being executed. Well... maybe the person that uttered the mandate to deliver that piece of work.
<troy_s> lol
<thorwil> good night! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-28
<vish> troy_s: hey, do you have the blender files for the UW logo you had done? or any other blender files you can share would be nice too.. i would like to learn to use blender  ;)
<vish> troy_s: when you get around to it , can you mail them to me ? : vish at ubuntu.com , thanks in advance  :)
<vish> darkmatter: do you have a bunch of devs interested in creating a new editor?  or just making a mockup-ish to improve GIMP?
<vish> ie to send to the GIMP guys..
<darkmatter> vish: I'm actually thinking of doing my own. I'm just using the gimp to play around with as much as I can before finalizing a look/feel (I know one or two devs who _may_ be available, plus I can code as well, I just dun wanna run this solo), but the stuff I do do to the gimp I'll probably send to the gimp guys as a suggestion. it's not like it's a radical core overhaul or anything
<darkmatter> vish: but I want to create something drastically cleaner and more portable (touchscreens, netbooks, etc. it should just fit/function wher it lands), few different approaches to organization of tools (toolbox for the "always there" essentials, main window nd contextual for image/layer/function specifics. still organizing that stuff on paper). something that isn't little or big, but highly modular. ships with just the right mix by defau
<darkmatter> vish: that's why all the stuff I've been working on is taking so fraking long. aside from a few new ideas I've had to hybridize the interfaces at the conceptual level. it's not about "an interface for everyone" generic-fail. it's about a ui you can take with you (as in have a familiar tool on various devices with various inputs like tablets etc)
<vish> yeah, sending to the GIMP guys should be easier , if we fork/start new , it becomes a huge burden to maintain :s
<vish> wasnt there a spin-off of gimp already.. i recall a UDS video of a guy called the 'ingimp guy' or something?
<vish> which was a few minor changes to how gimp behaved/reacted
<darkmatter> vish: yeah. and it is a totally useless so-called fork, not even remotely design or usability oriented
<darkmatter> vish: gimpshop. gimp with more photoshop like menus (layout, naming conventions). that's not an improvement by any means imo, and is a complete waste of time
<vish> darkmatter: yeah , it was about getting the drunk to draw proper circles! ;p
<darkmatter> vish:  but the overall concept is thus: instead of shipping a massive suite (ala photoshop) and marketing it as do-all-end all (be it a new app or just a re envisioned gimp). (re)design as an application that grows with you. have sane defauts/intuitive ui than even a begin artist can wrap their head around with ease. if your needs are more advanced, or as your skills grow and you need more advance tools/features, those become accessib
<darkmatter> vish: that there is a winning formula imo
<vish> darkmatter: +1  sane defaults to start with, allowing it to get insane is the way to go :)
<darkmatter> simplicity and ease of learning + power as it is needed
<vish> there *can* *not* be a one size fits all!
<darkmatter> vish: of course we'd have to set rules regarding hoe extensions plug into the ui level, so that even the insanity is coherent :P
<vish> ;)
<darkmatter> vish: I'm not saying one size fits all. that's not a possibility. it would never be a gimp or photoshop per se, but it would be allowed to grow with the user until there skill bypasses it's usefulness
<vish> darkmatter: nah, i dint say you were saying that.. but thats what people often try to do
<darkmatter> we dun wanna create a graphics version of firefox after all *shudders at the thought*
<vish> darkmatter: like i cant understand why a tablet oriented design is used for the metacity title bar.. each needs its own design..
<vish> or are we just being lazy :/
<thorwil> lazy
<darkmatter> *shrugs*
<thorwil> also certain people seem to have reached a 2nd stage of design sensibilities, where they just learned that whitespace is useful. the next stage then is about using it in a modest way ;)
 * darkmatter points at gnome3's metacity accusingly
<thorwil> for touch vs mouse, a lot could be gained by having a scaling parameter (though not necessarily enough)
<darkmatter> thorwil: I was actually "attempting" to start a discussion about scaling and a few other things in g-d a few days ago, but super-jumbo default targets seem more practical I guess ;P
<vish> it's easy to blame Ubuntu for trying to 'fork gnome', Unity! , but very often the case is that people at gnome are not very open to suggestions :(
<darkmatter> vish: they blame everyone for "forking" like when novell first changed gnomes defaults to fit with their customers needs. that was a royal shitstorm
<darkmatter> vish: I remember trying to explain to some gnomers that it wasn't a fork, it was applets. complete denial. it had to be a fork. yup. because the gnomers said so
<darkmatter> vish: and usually they don't even have the courtesy to deny your suggestion verbally. they just pretend you're not there ;)
<vish> lol!
<doctormo> vish: Open to suggestions? This would be the same gnome that doesn't take advantage of xdg and instead persists in gconf. It's not just their UI design that lacks sensibilities, but also their infrastructure design.
<vish> doctormo: i just imagined that the 'gnome does not accept patches from canonical' was a myth , but i noticed this first hand while trying to get patches accepted Upstream , they just dont want to respond when the patches are being done by a canonical employee :(
<darkmatter> speaking of xdg and other related stuff, I remember suggesting once that they should consider adopting the .directory specification. all I heard was crickets chirping
<darkmatter> vish: and people wonder why I don't file bugs against gnome :P
<doctormo> darkmatter: There are a pile of infrastructure projects that are just failing to get traction because of the gnome project. I'm glad Zeiguist has the forsight to push forward anyway.
<darkmatter> doctormo: indeed
<darkmatter> I'm considering moving back to ubuntu. less religion and elitism
<vish> when gnome3 started , i recall zeitgeist being the main selling point! but now that dropped flat :/
<doctormo> darkmatter: If I had a few billion rupees, I'd dump EDS, gconf and gvfs and replace them all with lower in the stack projects.
<vish> doctormo: rupeeeeeeeeeees! ? ;D
<darkmatter> doctormo: yeah. I've talked about winning the lottery myself (amongst people that actual _listen_ to ideas ;))
<doctormo> darkmatter: Had a very interesting chat with Mark about this problem and it's really boiling down to: It's not economical to make pipes.
<doctormo> So the only way to make pipes is either government funding, charity or massive amounts of programmers dedicating their time out of compassion.
<doctormo> Sure as hell can't get OEMs to put any money into it.
<darkmatter> " but, but! if that scenario arose you'd piss off a lot of devs!"(regarding having a wallet to back up words and making serious fixes). yeah, well, they pissed me off first. eye for an eye :P
<troy_s> vish: It is pretty hard to learn from Blender files.
<troy_s> vish: Especially some of the more intermediate concepts. Even then, I'm more of a 2D fellow than a 3D, although I've learnt enough to survive. There is an interesting side of Blender that not many think of - the ability to create working interface mocks using the game engine.
<darkmatter> pissing of elitists = progress
<darkmatter> that's why they tend to get so fired up, it's not because you're making changes, it's because you're making _improvements_
<darkmatter> narcissism: the straw that broke the camels back
<troy_s> darkmatter: Improvements are relative. One man's meat be another's poison.
<darkmatter> troy_s: buzzkill :P
<vish> troy_s: nah , usually i like breaking down things that are already done, while i learn something new , it somehow helps me learn quicker :)
<troy_s> vish: It might be easier to just get handed through it. If you are interested, I can probably help step you through bits a little bit at a time. It would depend on what you want to learn though.
<troy_s> vish: I'm likely not the most useful fellow if your needs are strictly 3D.
<troy_s> vish: And if you are looking for all of the work in the uW, the repository has everything. All sources.
<troy_s> vish: But again, you may need to at least wrap your head around some of the basic useful bits. Like the ability to find missing files to resolve pathnames etc.
<vish> troy_s: not 3D , i liked how you had done those presentations, i just dont know how to do that yet.. Its something i intend to get used to slowly :)
<troy_s> vish: It's very simple really.
<troy_s> vish: The worst thing you can do (arguably with _anything_) is start with the tool. Tools make tools.
<troy_s> vish: If you start with a goal and work backwards, it is _far_ easier, and much easier for someone to help you get there.
<vish> troy_s: oh , resources repository? i'm not sure where that is..
<troy_s> vish: https://code.launchpad.net/~troy-sobotka/+junk/ubuntu-women-community-identity
<darkmatter> nut my move back to ubuntu is gonna have to wait, I don't really feel like I wanna install twice in two months
<troy_s> vish: It was unfortunate that they took the bits _out_ of there. I tried to make it clear to leave the bits _in_ there so that they were able to be updated 100% of the time. Now there is a sync issue. For example, there is a spelling mistake in the identity standards manual...
<troy_s> vish: Had the 'official' link been to the repository itself, it wouldn't be an issue to fix.
<vish> hmm..
<vish> troy_s: neat thanks for that link.. yeah, blender is something i'm interested in getting more familiar with at some point.. i just need to make time for it  :)
<thorwil> vish: what are you planning to do with blender?
<troy_s> vish: But anyways, that's what you were asking for. It is all in there. You will need to re-link the files (as I didn't embed them) but that is painless as it is a menu selection from the File menu.
<vish> thorwil: no solid plan yet, but _everyone_ seems gah gah over it , so i'm just interested :)
<troy_s> vish: It is the only tool that is even remotely close to useful in the broad scope. Still missing a few vital and critical aspects, but those are in the pipes.
<troy_s> vish: Doubly so if Ton does a live action project next. *cough*
<thorwil> vish: heh, yeah, it's an incredible application and a very well run project
<troy_s> It is very simple as to why it exceeds all of the other tripe that professes to be about everyone
<troy_s> It _isn't_. And even better, it is put through real-world paces at regular intervals with external pipeline requirements (Such as DPX 10 bit log needs, etc.)
<troy_s> That said, there are a few remaining glaring holes that need to be filled.
<troy_s> Wholly crapistan are those videos... well... so Ubuntu.
<vish> hehe! Ubuntu!Movies! ;p
<vish> ?
<troy_s> vish: Yes. Very uh...
<troy_s> vish: Ubuntuific.
<troy_s> vish: When I say it is a cultural problem... I am pretty sure that sort of output reinforces it.
<doctormo> darkmatter: meat/poison, first one then the other.
 * vish lunches!
<troy_s> vish: Ciao.
<troy_s> Night droogies.
<thorwil> so looking into how the inkscape tiled clones dialog could be improved, i landed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group
<knome> hey, does anybody know how to control thunderbird menubar from gtkrc?
<knome> the text is dark grey in our theme, but we need to change it to white since the background is blue
<darkmatter> knome: userchrome.css. you can't properly theme xul apps from gtk proper (yet) because of the way xul apps handle menus/bars (particularly the text)
<knome> we've managed to tweak the firefox menubar.
<darkmatter> firefox is reasonable. it's an age thing (they tend to spend the most effort on having it git in, since it's default almost everywhere). but thunderbird, sunbird, and other xul apps can be pigheaded to various degrees
<knome> can userchrome.css be theme-specific?
<darkmatter> yup. to a cetian degree. the user chome for sonar in opensuse is hosted bt the actual theme itself. sec
<darkmatter> knome: example userChrome.css from openSUSE. it's how the prevent the dropdown in the awesomebar from being all black and fugly. frome /usr/share/themes/Sonar/mozilla: http://pastebin.ca/1927940
<knome> seems like pastebin.ca is damn slow
<darkmatter> exactly how much xul themeing can be hosted external (beyons the . directory), of that I'm uncertain, I haven't had a chance to tinker with it yet
<knome> and yeah, i know userchrome.css, but that's not really a preferred solution if it can't be theme-specific
<darkmatter> knome: no. I mean at least in that degree it is theme specific. if you pull the css out of the theme directory and reaplly sonar it goes all funky
<knome> right
<darkmatter> it's just the degree to which that functionality is exportable of which I'm uncertain
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> but then, if you disable the theme, you should remove the userchrome.css again to revert back to normal
<knome> i'm not really sure if that's possible
<darkmatter> pkus naming conventions. do we just need the mozilla subfolder for the theme _or_ do we also need to have say, thunderbird and sunbird (since they have there own config directories). I would hope that's not the case, and that it's just using the mozilla namespace in the general sense, but again. I don't have any documentation oin that. the only way I learned you could export the user chrome at all was seeing that when the css was firs
<knome> "the css was firs --" ?
<darkmatter> knome: no. I mean that css in sonar doesn't get copied to your firefox profile. it stays in the theme (that's from Sonar/mozilla) and works from there
<knome> aha..
<darkmatter> knome: was first added and going hmmm and then pissing around a bit<-- tht
<darkmatter> but like I said, I don't know if that behaviour is unique to firefox or not, but it appears the moz namespace can be read from an external directory for themeing (if only in a limited fashion) I just need to find the time to really play around and see how far it goes
<knome> yeah
<knome> right
<knome> is there some documentation?
<knome> (i'd *REALLY* just would like to change the menubar color, nothing else :))
<knome> menubar text color, i mean :)
<darkmatter> yeah. I know. gotta love self hosting toolkits :P
<darkmatter> ok. self-hosting sounds off, but I just work up and havent dosed with coffee yet, so you'll have to just deal with it :P
<knome> np ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-08-29
<darkmatter> vish: question, since I'm not running uby quite yet. does ubuntu still use the ghey all-in-one session dialog or is it using the proper gnome-session dialogs now? (separate logout/switch and shutdown). I'm  making a list of too-do items for when I reinstall
<darkmatter> vish: thorwil: finally! as of teh 2.7 series pidgin now supports a themeable tray: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8008/screenshotbs.png <-- time to add icons to Humanity methinks ;) *poke poke hint hint*
<thorwil> vish: i really wonder why you waste your time in that wallpaper bug report (why do i even skim it ?)
<vish> thorwil: yeah.. my bad! :(
<vish> thorwil: hmm, pondering on replying to the mailing about 'OMG a bane or a boon!'
<vish> ayatana mailing list*
<thorwil> vish: i doubt that belongs on the list of things worth doing
<vish> thorwil: damn you! i just hit send! :/
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> see, i just came back from a long walk. that long walk felt better than anything i ever got out of the usual mailing list business :)
<vish> heh, yeah.. !
<thorwil> so they finally use my logo, but somehow decided that that text treatment is better: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-40/
<thorwil> too bad i'm no Paul Rand: http://www.logodesignlove.com/next-logo-paul-rand
<vish> wow! he must be so confident! 'I'll solve the problem and you pay me , but you dont have to use it!'
<thorwil> vish: he had all reason to. read a bit about him, if the name is not already familiar ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-08-25
<thorwil> blender siggraph 2011 reel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbzE8jOO7_0&feature=player_embedded
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-08-26
<MDesigner> hey guys
<MDesigner> anyone awake?
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-08-24
<anonimo1245> hola un mockup de evince http://anonimo1245.deviantart.com/#/d5cesjd
<anonimo1245> mockup the evince
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-08-21
<ixxvil> you guys have a logo yet?
<ixxvil> or it's still due?
#ubuntu-artwork 2014-08-20
<rafaellaguna> Anybody home?
#ubuntu-artwork 2014-08-23
<rafaellaguna> who is in charge?
<rafaellaguna> nothing...
<rafaellaguna> any Ubuntu Member present?
