#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-26
<ScottL> crimsun_, i will still need to download qjackctl-0.3.4 source (straight from lucid archive), apply the debdiff, build it, install, and finally test it...correct?
<ScottL> oh, i have a new lucid install ready :)
<ScottL> crimsun_, rather, my expectation is to get source, apply diff, build, test...is there anything else that i am missing or forgetting?
<crimsun_> ScottL: that's essentially the process, yes.
<ScottL> crimsun_, thanks, it's already been uploaded to my ppa and waiting for build
<ScottL> yeah, i realize now that i could have set up a pbuilder environment instead of using ppa (but that seems to be my work flow these days)
<crimsun_> either is fine :)
<TheMuso> /c
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> I've been playing with xwax in maverick and tried various kernels (because I suspected this to be an issue), sometimes in longer recording sessions I have weird timing issues, where the tracks' timing is pitched over short periods or some beats are skipped - as far as I can remember it started happening after some updates in lucid already - does anybody have similar issues and can comment?
 * dholbach tries asking again :)
<dholbach> I've been playing with xwax in maverick and tried various kernels (because I suspected this to be an issue), sometimes in longer recording sessions I have weird timing issues, where the tracks' timing is pitched over short periods or some beats are skipped - as far as I can remember it started happening after some updates in lucid already - does anybody have similar issues and can comment?
<scott-work> dholbach: my understanding is that not many of the developers use xwax (or at least the ones that did are not currently active with development)
<scott-work> dholbach: although you might also try at #opensourcemusicians...good cross section of different musical types there
<dholbach> scott-work: ok, thanks - I was just wondering if anybody observed a similar behaviour with any other time sensitive applications
<scott-work> dholbach: your welcome :)  i belive the only person that i've heard lately mention xwaw was detrate` now that i take more time to reflect on it, perhaps he might be persuaded to make a few comments
<scott-work> although i seem to recall that he encountered problems as well
<dholbach> thanks a lot scott-work
<dholbach> I could imagine that it's either the kernel or x
<dholbach> but I'm no expert :)
<abogani> Just curious on what kernel you incur in this problem.
<dholbach> hey abogani
<abogani> dholbach, Ciao :-)
<dholbach> linux-image-2.6.33-26-realtime
<dholbach> linux-image-2.6.35-10-generic
<dholbach> linux-image-2.6.35-9-lowlatency
<abogani> Do you incur in the problem on _all_ those three kernels?
<dholbach> abogani: as far as I remember, yes - but I'm happy to do more extensive testing :)
<dholbach> if I just had to consult my gut feeling (as I have no hard data and sometimes spent weeks without doing anything with music) it was fine in lucid release, but regressed in an sru and is still a problem in maverick
<dholbach> I think I even used the regular kernel and was fine
<abogani> Do you remember the last working -generic kernel?
<dholbach> no I'm afraid I don't, but I could try out a few and see if that fixes things
<dholbach> maybe it's even kernel unrelated and something else
<dholbach> but it really surprises me as I just use one usb device (NI Audio4DJ) and even kill wifi, etc.
<dholbach> but it annoys me enough to sit down and try a few kernels and see if that fixes it
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> abogani: am I the only one who complained? :)
<abogani> dholbach, About -realtime and -lowlatency I received complaints *only* about evil closed video drivers. 
<dholbach> ok, that's not the case here
<dholbach> I'll let you know
<dholbach> thanks a lot
<scott-work> dholbach: off topic, but do you know if the next UDS is in Miami?
<scott-work> if it is that close i would really like to try to make it
<dholbach> scott-work: afaik it's not definite yet
<dholbach> (where it is)
<dholbach> jcastro and jono will know sooner than I do
<scott-work> dholbach: thanks
<dholbach> but it'd be great to have you there :)
<scott-work> dholbach: awww, thanks :)
<scott-work> crimsun_:  i should test qjackctl--0ubuntu4.1 with your debdiff when i get home from work (+8.5 hours hence) and then file the SRU for it :)
<scott-work> if anyone can help test the amd64 ubuntu studio iso before the end of the week, it would be greatly appreciated :)   http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4242
<falktx> scott-work: are there any plans for a live cd/dvd?
<falktx> we'll talk later
<holstein> scott-work: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/info/4242
<holstein> This build wasn't found on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/20100630/maverick-alternate-amd64.iso (may no longer exists)
<holstein> is that what you find?
<holstein> should i just get the daily?
<scott-work> holstein: oh crap! it may be too late already :(
<holstein> scott-work: no worries
<scott-work> holstein: the daily build would probably have trouble installing ubuntustudio-audio at this time as well
<holstein> just let me know
<scott-work> okay
<holstein> i got a couple 64bit boxes this week :)
<holstein> im going to test that Qjack backport issue
<holstein> i'll add my findings to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/607914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607914 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Backport qjackctl 0.3.6-1 from Maverick" [Undecided,New]
<scott-work> holstein:  i wouldn't worry about the qjackctl backport anymore, crimsun came through with a patch so we can get an SRU :)
<holstein> AH
<holstein> im glad i found you then :)
<scott-work> holstein: however, if you DID want to test the daily image (even with the bug) we can at least complete all the test cases, this would probably be the best thing to focus on
<holstein> i was about to get busy
<scott-work> heh, well, that's a good thing :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-27
<ScottL> crimsun_, patch test and SRU filed: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qjackctl/+bug/607914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 607914 in qjackctl (Ubuntu) "Backport qjackctl 0.3.6-1 from Maverick" [Undecided,New]
<ScottL> err, s/test/tested
<crimsun_> Uploading to ubuntu (via sftp to upload.ubuntu.com): qjackctl_0.3.4-0ubuntu4.1.dsc: Enter passphrase for key '/home/crimsun/.ssh/id_rsa': 
<crimsun_> done. qjackctl_0.3.4-0ubuntu4.1.diff.gz: done. qjackctl_0.3.4-0ubuntu4.1_source.changes: done.
<crimsun_> Successfully uploaded packages.
<crimsun_> ^^ ScottL 
<ScottL> crimsun_, capital!  thanks for the help
<crimsun_> yw
<scott-work> TheMuso: the ubuntustudio-audio package has uninstallable binaries, is this to do with the jack transition?
<scott-work> TheMuso: i would like to find a solution the the ubuntustudio-audio uninstallable binaries soon since we are coming up on a new Alpha release
<scott-work> TheMuso: if it isn't anything to do with the ubuntustudio-audio package can you suggest somewhere to look for a clue to find what is wrong?  don't give me the answer per se, just point me in a direction (remember, i like learning stuff)  :)
<TheMuso> ScottL: Easiest way to work out what is broken is to go into an up to date maverick chroot, and try installing ubuntustudio-audio.
<holstein> ScottL: ping
<holstein> OR anybody really
<holstein> is there a bug for the 'resize partitions' option not being available?
 * holstein is searching LP
<TheMuso> ScottL: As it is, I am still trying to work out why ubuntustudio-audio is uninstallable. It may have something to do with the jack transition.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Now I am sure its to do with the transition. I'm on it.
<holstein> TheMuso: w00t :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-28
<TheMuso> Ok, csound, patchage, and jackbeat have not been transitioned. I'm taking care of those now.
<TheMuso> Hrm jackbeat FTBFs for some arches.
<TheMuso> Which is why its still showing for amd64.
<ScottL> TheMuso, thanks for looking into it
<ScottL> holstein, i'm here now
<TheMuso> ScottL: np
<TheMuso> ScottL: np/c
<holstein> ScottL: i got it sorted out 
<holstein> i think
<TheMuso> gah sorry.
<ScottL> TheMuso, LOL
<ScottL> holstein, man, thanks a bunch for getting the tests done!
<holstein> no problem
<ScottL> i had thought i would have made progress on several things this afternoon/evening but my wife had her purse stolen from her truck in our driveway
<TheMuso> ouch
<ScottL> she didn't notice it until she was leaving for work this afternoon
<holstein> drag
<TheMuso> Some people are brazen.
<ScottL> so we've spent time with the sheriff, the bank, the phone company, our community's property management company, etc
<ScottL> now hopefully i can figure out why the patch for the ardour mute bug SRU for lucid didn't work :(
<holstein> so, the installer fails if i choose to add the packges
<holstein> but thats what your working on right now right TheMuso ?
<TheMuso> holstein: Yes.
<holstein> cool
<holstein> im going to try and re-produce the resizing issue i had
<holstein> and call it a day
<ScottL> holstein, i want to thank you again for getting the testing done, i really do appreciate that :)
 * holstein totally happy to help out
<holstein> finally got some 64bit procs in the house :)
<TheMuso> ScottL: I will drop jackbeat from audio atm, as it has a weird FTBF sbug on i386 and amd64 that may take a while to work out.
<ScottL> TheMuso, i think i was going to actually drop jackbeat myself because it hasn't worked for last two studio releases anyway
<ScottL> i need to make sure it was jackbeat though
<TheMuso> ScottL: Ah ok.
<TheMuso> There is a new upstrea release that we and Debian don't have, but it still FTBFs in the same way.
<ScottL> TheMuso, my thought was that if it hadn't worked for two releases then nobody was probably using it anyway, so it was probably safe to drop :)
<TheMuso> ScottL: Right.
<ScottL> but i would like to check that on my lucid install to make sure i'm thinking of the right application
<TheMuso> ScottL: Ok dropped for now, probably worth raising it on the list.
<TheMuso> ScottL: Ok with a bit of luck, the next studio disks should be totally installable, and if not, then tomorrow's./
<ScottL> TheMuso, i will bring it up later on the list, and thank you for your help on resolving the ubuntustudio-audio uninstallables
<TheMuso> ScottL: np
<TheMuso> Dear me, galan packaging needs some work. Good thing its not shiped in studio.
<TheMuso> shipped
 * holstein working on a live CD
<holstein> http://imagebin.org/107080
<holstein> i got it to boot :)
<holstein> gotta add the ubuntu live user to the audio group
<holstein> and some other command line tweaks i'll have to google
<ScottL> holstein, that is cool :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-29
<ScottL> crimsun_, TheMuso : if i'm testing an SRU is it/there....
<ScottL>  * bad form to verify my own SRU?
<ScottL>  * a special wording when replying to an SRU?
<ScottL>  * a special tag to add to the SRU?
<ScottL>  * anything else i'm ignorant about replying to an SRU?
<TheMuso> ScottL: 1) no, 2) no, just indicate that you have tested the fix as compared to the previous package behavior, and that you have verified that the fix works etc 3) change verification-needed to verification-done but can't remember whether universe packages need 2 ACKS. If so, and nobody else has ACKed, leave tags alone 4) thats all.
<ScottL> thanks TheMuso :)
<ScottL> now i'm working on the ardour mute SRU and trying to figure out why my patch caused only the i386 build to fail in lucid-proposed
<ScottL> i was starting with a test build of the source directly from launchpad in a chroot environment and having trouble getting it to build to my surprise
<ScottL> building the source gives me a control and a nice baseline
<ScottL> but then i realized that i had downloaded the source from maverick :/   that explains why a package version wasn't available :P
<TheMuso> heh
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-07-31
<ScottL> crimsun, when you get a chance can we talk about the patch you uploaded for ardour to lucid-proposed?
<ScottL> crimsun, the build for lucid-proposed failed to build: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ardour/1:2.8.6-1ubuntu0.1/+build/1891377/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.ardour_1:2.8.6-1ubuntu0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottL> however, i was able to build it with the patch attached to the bug report both in pbuilder and my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~slavender/+archive/build/+build/1896634
<ScottL> even if we don't get this for 10.04.01 i would like to resolve it for 10.04.02 if possible
<crimsun> ScottL: it built in a local pbuilder here, too, but I'll try an sbuild
<crimsun> ScottL: 10.04.1 seems unlikely
 * crimsun grumbles at his slow rotary disk
<crimsun> finally got the sbuild running
<stochastic> Hey All
<crimsun> 'lo
<ScottL> hi stochastic , how are you doing?
<stochastic> ScottL, fairly good these days, yourself?
<ScottL> stochastic, pretty good, been really busy, but also talking a bit to troy
<ScottL> stochastic, he's also got me playing with blender, as soon as i finish this next song i'm going to make a video for it using blender
<ScottL> stochastic, i'll be using the node editor and compositing multiple of me's into the video
<stochastic> ScottL, isn't that a little egotistical?
<stochastic> ;)
<stochastic> ScottL, that was a joke by the way (sarcasm doesn't translte in text)
<ScottL> stochastic, well yeah, i suppose it is :P  but it's more of a down and dirty showcase to show what blender can do
<ScottL> stochastic, naw, i realized it was sarcasm LOL
<stochastic> I've been doing much more offline work - including tearing apart a piano to make a stand for my electric piano, building some diffuser panels, and other fun projects
<holstein> stochastic: you got some pics of your diffuser panels?
 * holstein is about to do some of that
<stochastic> But now I've got some DJ gigs knocking at my door so I need to get my Xwax system cleaned up and organized
<stochastic> holstein, they're still in the construction process but I will share when I'm done.  If you want some construction advice I could share.
<holstein> im still a ways off
<holstein> i'll ask before i buy anything though
 * stochastic came across a bunch of cedar 2x2 sections so I thought it would be the perfect project
<holstein> nice
<holstein> i was thinking about something 2x2 size
<holstein> i got access to a bunch of plywood
<holstein> but im hoping something better comes along for not much $$
<ScottL> stochastic, dholbach was asking about xwax and if anyone was having trouble with it losing sync or something
<stochastic> ScottL, hmm, I didn't have any troubles before.  I know dholbach was just getting into xwax before I went awol.
<stochastic> ScottL, holstein, I'd love to catch up more, but I need to get ready for work.  I'll try to keep xchat open more often and get back into the swing of things 'round here.
<holstein> good to see you stochastic :)
<ScottL> yeah, good to hear from you again stochastic :)
<ScottL> holstein, thanks again for getting those amd64 ISO tests done...that right there should allow us to have the next alpha image to test :)
<holstein> sweet :)
<holstein> ScottL: i still dont have a good live disc yet
<holstein> im using ubuntu customization kit
<holstein> and when i add the live user to the audio group
<holstein> the build fails for some reason
<holstein> i'll have to learn the hard way... chroot or whatever
<holstein> i got a guy here in town that does it that way, and he said he would show me
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-08-01
<ScottL> holstein, that's super cool that you have someone that close to help you
<crimsun> ScottL: I blame scons on the i386 vm for that build failure
<crimsun> ScottL: the ardour SRU built just dandy in my local i386 sbuild (non-vm)
<crimsun> ScottL: so, I wonder what sort of nasty hack we have to use to get it not to FTBFS on the buildd sbuilds :(
<ScottL> crimsun, hmmm, i'm not sure how much help i can be for that, i'll do what i can do though
<TheMuso> Oh man, ardour, scons, and FTBFs again?
 * TheMuso sighs
<TheMuso> I have a strong dislike for scons.
 * TheMuso remembers crobarring ardour in the past, just to get the damn thing to build.
<TheMuso> On a brighter note, thanks to /etc/security/limits.d, we no longer have to funky regexp work to set up audio/mem/rtprio information.
<TheMuso> to do funky regexp work.
 * TheMuso has taken care of the above with a new ubuntustudio-meta upload.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-25
<falktx> hey there
<falktx> ScottL: the git clone cmd is:
<falktx> git clone git://kxstudio.git.sf.net/gitroot/kxstudio/kxstudio
<falktx> ScottL: note the 'git://', not 'http://'
<ScottL> thanks falktx, i'll try again tonight then
<falktx> k
<scott-work> holstein: ping me when you are up and about
<astraljava> Hey scott-work, what was it that you had in mind on Friday?
<scott-work> hi astraljava , there were two things actually, how was moving?  is it all complete?
<scott-work> astraljava:  luke had posted a pastebin of the diffs from when you updated the seeds and i have comments on them
<scott-work> i can make the changes but i figure you still had the source file on your machine and could make them easy enough
<astraljava> scott-work: Sure, I can. Let me just find the pastebin entry when I get home (just about to leave the office).
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, and moving was alright, though exhausting. Just a few things next weekend, and the finishing cleaning up, then I'm all done.
<scott-work> astraljava: let me know when you are ready :)
<scott-work> the second thing was going to push the infomration for the backports to you (finally)
<scott-work> there are sooo many things going on and i don't seem to be able to finish any of them :(
<scott-work> which reminds me....
<scott-work> persia: i have spent time during last week trying to find out why the linux-meta package didn't build, can either you or abogani help me?
<scott-work> https://launchpad.net/~slavender/+archive/broken/+build/2643266/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-amd64.linux-meta-lowlatency_3.0.0-5.6%7Eppa3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<scott-work> persia:  also i wanted to remind you that you were going to review the package and get back to me with corrections
<scott-work> i also still need to get back with bassburner about some pages for the website as well
<abogani> dh_gencontrol -s -- -Vkernel-version=Version: 3.0.0-5.6~ppa3 -Vkernel-abi-version=Version: 3.0.0-5.6~ppa3-6~ppa3) oneiric; urgency=low -Vgeneric-depends=generic sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
<abogani> scott-work: Could you paste somewhere your debian/changelog?
<abogani> It seems that an extraneous "(" was added there.
<abogani> I meant ")"
<abogani> scott-work: FYI 3.0.0-7.8 is alreay available in my PPA and in my git trees.
<scott-work> abogani: i looked at that in the changelog and didn't see it, but i will look again
<abogani> scott-work: Pastebin it, please
<scott-work> abogani: i will have to do this at home in +6 hours, i'm not at my linux machine sadly
<abogani> scott-work: Ok
<scott-work> abogani: however, i _will_ do it and send it to you, if youare not on IRC i will email it to you tonight
<astraljava> scott-work: I'm not seeing the pastebin entry address in the backlog. Can you link to it, please?
<astraljava> scott-work: Oh, you meant the original one that Luke posted back in the day, yeah found that. I thought you had the comments up there somewhere. Sorry.
<astraljava> From #debian-multimedia @ irc.oftc.net: [15:07] < pabs> ooh, linux-image-rt-amd64 linux-image-3.0.0-1-rt-amd64 entered the archive :D
<scott-work> astraljava: i haven't done a pastebin yet...actually i'm not sure what form you would prefer
<scott-work> astraljava: i can list them here, i can send an email to you, i could do a Google+ thingie, whatever you want
<scott-work> i wonder if the -rt kernel will be brought into the ubuntu repos....i dont' think UKT will want it there but i could be wrong
<astraljava> scott-work: Any form is fine with me.
<astraljava> scott-work: Also, have the -rt kernel in universe? Would that be too awful?
<astraljava> Or is it mandatory to have all kernels in main?
<astraljava> scott-work: Though, come to think of it, listing them here would ensure they're being logged.
<astraljava> them being logged*
<scott-work> we should be putting the -lowlatency into universe
<scott-work> maybe it was that UKT didn't want the -rt in the main
<astraljava> I understand that, as that would require support from them, when they were not creating the beast in the first place.
<astraljava> But universe? Wouldn't it work?
<scott-work> i think so, i wonder who would be maintainers for it?
<astraljava> ubuntustudio-developers?
<astraljava> Maintainer: UbuntuStudio Developers <ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
<scott-work> for the -rt kernel?  really?  is someone else committed us to do something?
<astraljava> Well, if it's just synced from debian, I doubt there's much else to do.
<astraljava> We still have time until feature freeze, so there's a chance it can be synced.
<scott-work> my point was more that i wouldn't want someone else to commit me to maintaining something that i wasn't even aware of
<scott-work> not saying this is the case, but it sounds like it from your description
<scott-work> i hape that someone at least spoke with someone from the team before committing ubuntustudio-devel to be the maintainers
<astraljava> scott-work: Sure. I just guess that in ubuntu, there aren't that many individual maintainers, but rather teams. I guess we'd be the only one interested.
<astraljava> Oh, I suppose that would be MOTU in this case, if it's a direct sync, as is the case with mudita24.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-26
<falktx> hi all
 * saidinesh5 sends a namaste to falktx
 * falktx says hi to saidinesh5
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-27
<falktx> hey guys
<falktx> this is serious...
<falktx> sorry but I have to post this, quote from a forum user:
<falktx> "I do think Ubuntu Studio is pretty much obsolete. However, as one of their original users since 1.0, I hope they will come around."
<falktx> this makes me sad...
<falktx> please tell me the XFCE transition is working... right?
<falktx> oh, we should ignore my first comment, take a look:
<falktx> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1811489
<falktx> this guy is a asshole
<saidinesh5> falktx: with the kxstudio website down, i had a bit of tough time passing it onto my friends :P
<falktx> it's the internet tech guys fault!
<falktx> they never came yesterday
<saidinesh5> Ah iSee...... ya, same problem @ my end too......
<falktx> now I don't have the time to work on the website, cause I still don't have network at home...
<saidinesh5> oh k
<astraljava> falktx: The transition is in progress, but we haven't had an installable candidate so far in the cycle.  So cannot comment on that one.
<falktx> oh, ok
<falktx> I know oneiric itself has lots of issues right now because of all the changes, so it's a bit too soon to do testing
<falktx> but it's good to know that it's in progress
<falktx> do you wanna read something cool?
<falktx> http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7241
<falktx> ^ this Studio war is getting intense...
<astraljava> Nah, I tend to separate myself from those.
<astraljava> I'm more of a technical kinda guy, at least at the moment. I don't have enough experience in making judgment calls one way or the either.
<astraljava> But yeah, it's actually our fault at the moment, due to seeds being in a bad state.
<astraljava> Once we get that fixed, we can start testing, and ironing out the irks.
<ScottL> the ubuntu forums link posted was interesting...i had already read the linuxmusician forums thread
<ScottL> i am planning to respond to the ubuntu forum thread because there's some specific misinformation in it
<ScottL> well, after the thread is opened again in 24 hours
<ScottL> and he is quite mistaken on a few counts as well that probably should be addressed
<ScottL> lest this become FUD and people start whispering it to others in back alleys and darkened pub rooms
<astraljava> ScottL: Sounds good, thanks for setting the record straight! :)
<astraljava> records*
<ScottL> i had wanted to keep up with my blog to push information and correct misconceptions but haven't kept up as i desired
<ScottL> *sigh*
<ScottL> too much going on
<ScottL> however, this may help push me to write some more about issues
<astraljava> Understandable. It's not like you can dedicate your days for US. It'd be nice if you could, though. :D
<ScottL> yes it would :D
<astraljava> I'd love to, as well. :)
<astraljava> jussi01: cdngiadmnkhgemkimkhiilgffbjijcie
<astraljava> For everyone else, that's how we communicate here in Navicron. :D
<jussi> hehe
<jussi> astraljava: gofhjkjmkpinhpoiabjplobcaignabnl
<astraljava> jussi: Gotcha, I'm on it tomorrow.
<jussi> astraljava: that one is open source :D
<astraljava> *grumble* Now did you have to blow my cover?! ;D
<astraljava> Doesn't matter, this one works. OS never does. Wait, what?!
<jussi> astraljava: hehe... I tried the other one... and it works :P :P:
<ScottL> hi falktx , i am planning to respond to the ubuntu forum post you linked after it is opened again in 24 hours
<ScottL> thanks for linking it
<ScottL> while avoiding a pissing match with him (lowtech?) i will specifically address some of the misinformation and misconceptions he stated
<falktx> good
<falktx> people should be informed at the UbuntuStudio state
<falktx> it certainly isn't obsolete!
<ScottL> falktx, ubuntu studio has a few things that studio4 doesn't currently and might never have
<ScottL> we have an established history, a huge code base within ubuntu, thousands of users and therefore a deep help base, and a modicum more documentation than studio4
<holstein> falktx: eh... folks just dont understand whats going on
<holstein> we are going to get that just becuase its changing
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-29
<falktx> hey there
<astraljava> Hi falktx_!
<astraljava> Yay! An image! Will test tonight.
<falktx_> anyone care to join?
<falktx_> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1813749
<falktx_> ScottL: I added some "clarifying" info there, hope it's alright for you
<astraljava> Hehe. :) Either I'm not actively contributing, or I'm not a real programmer. It's how I make a living, but *shrug* :D
<astraljava> Oh, that looks like a long thread already in a day. I'll read the rest of it later tonight.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-07-31
<holstein> ailo: YO
<holstein> long time no see right?
<ailo> hi holstein
<ailo> Yea, I've just had the program off. Didn't think about it until I rebooted my computer
<holstein> lol
<ailo> What's new?
<ailo> Has there been any meetings btw?
<holstein> not much at all
<holstein> nah, theres supposed to be one this sunday
<holstein> next sunday
<ailo> It's only been off for about 5 days, but I suppose I haven't been talking for a while
<ScottL> hi ailo 
<ScottL> holstein, do you have a preferred date for recording the podcast?
<ScottL> persia, the linux-meta package built after i eliminated the date (-) in the version number in the changelog
<astraljava> ScottL: We need to get discussion started before the meeting in a week from today. About the seeds/desktop. It's already August (well, here, not there.) Not too much time to fix everything prior to feature freeze (though there's obviously time for bug fixes even after that.)
<ScottL> persia, i think i'm ready for your notes on the kernel at your convenience
<ScottL> astraljava, that is true, i commit to get you some notes about changes
<ScottL> astraljava, has anyone tested the image lately, rlamerio was the last one i knew about a week or two ago
<astraljava> ScottL: Sadly, I haven't. :( But, I have all my machines in the new apartment now, so I should be able to test tomorrow evening.
<ScottL> i've been out of town this weekend but was going to download an image tonight
<ScottL> about to go out for dinner with the family in about five minutes
<astraljava> Go, have fun. That's what weekends are for. I'll test tomorrow and give you feedback during your office hours. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-23
<len-dt> log check
<len-dt> And BTW The ISO built again so the notice in the email can be ignored.
<ailo> len-dt: I'm back. Going to start working on things from today, on
<ailo> len-dt: I'll start with developer documentation for a bit. Move onwards to document testing, and we should create testing scripts etc. 
<ailo> Then do testing
<ailo> And then do ubuntustudio-controls based on results
<len-dt> ailo, sounds great. Docs are web based? or are you doing stuff for the ISO as well?
<len-dt> ailo, if you are doing docs for the ISO at all, I would suggest doing it in smaller pieces that can work as is with one about/TOC page to tie them together. That way it is usable even if not finished. It looks like just you and me for the most part. Mish has offered to do some graphics work. I was going to get him to make some icons to go with our *.directory files that we are currently "borrowing" from various applications.
<len-dt> So if at some time we decide to drop an application that we use an icon from we don't break things.
<len-dt> If you have some other graphics work that needs to be done... this could wait.
<len-dt> ailo, some more scribbling just FYI Bug #919767 I have done an upstream  gnome-bugs #679905
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 919767 in brasero (Ubuntu) "brasero stays in memory after use" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919767
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 679854 in Hugin "duplicate for #679905 Multiple Images, same control point" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/679854
<len-dt> :)  The bot doesn't seem to get the right gnome-bug url  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679905
<ubottu> Gnome bug 679905 in general "Brasero stays in memory when closed." [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<len-dt> ailo, good idea to mark some things postponed. I suspect a lot of things Scott has marked as his should be too.
<ailo> len-dt: For now, I'm just focusing on developer docs
<ailo> And testing/tweaking
<ailo> Going to start working on -controls shortly
<ailo> len-dt: I'm really just going to dive in and try to do as much as possible in a short time, in some kind of a logic order
<ailo> Right now, I'm collecting all info on testing
<ailo> Your posts on the lists, included
<ailo> len-dt: Added a repo for testing tools at git@gitorious.org:ubuntustudio-testing/ubuntustudio-testing.git
<len-dt> ailo, ok. 
<ailo> Nothing much there yet
<ailo> Once we have some testing tools I guess we could add a group/project for that in launchpad
<ailo> And push the source there
<len-dt> fun
<ailo> len-dt: I think what seeds go, and that sort of thing, I won't bother much, unless you need my opinion on something. Seems like you're on top of that stuff pretty much
<len-dt> ailo, trying to be. I think I will go through Scotts bluprint items and add any he has marked for adding.
<len-dt> The stuff he has marked to try I won't.
<len-dt> I can add those to the installer menu item though.
<ailo> len-dt: Don't be afraid to take over his tasks, if you feel they are urgent
<ailo> I've done that for a couple
<len-dt> Ya, I have done one or two. I am more looking at what I can do.
<len-dt> If I see something easy I grab it and do it.
<ailo> Feels like there's no need for any plan, in terms of in what order things should be done? No need for meetings, etc. Just dive in and get things done
<ailo> Since there are so few of us
<len-dt> ya.
<len-dt> There was a user who removed the graphics and video metas and had problems loggin on
<len-dt> I need to recreate the problem so I can bug report it.
<len-dt> I think Scott used a font we don't include in desktop but is in graphics
<ailo> len-dt: Yea, that sounded bad
<len-dt> I will either have to make the fonts package a desktop depends or figure out which font it is and add that to desktop.
<len-dt> ailo, I have also noticed that most of our packages in our metas are depends and not recommends.
<ailo> len-dt: I'm a bit ignorant about that. Recommends still means those packages will be installed, if you just do "apt-get install <meta>"?
<ailo> Trying to find some example of metas
<len-dt> As people start adding replacement software they may try removing packages they don't want. Right now if someone removed meterbridge for example the whole audio meta packages would be removed.
<ailo> As long as everything gets installed, when you install the meta. That's the main thing
<ailo> The only reason why it's there
<len-dt> In seeds audio-common (which becomes the ubuntustudio-audio-common) all of them are depends. That means if someone tries to remove just one app it removes the whole works.
<len-dt> Some of those packages shold be depends (like jackd)
<len-dt> but others should just be recommends
<len-dt> recommends would be things like audacity,hydrogen, jack-rack, meterbridge etc. Thing that can be removed without making the package unusable.
<ailo> Removing a meta should not remove any depends though
<ailo> It would just remove the meta
<len-dt> I'll have to try that.
<len-dt> a recommends should not even remove the meta.
<ailo> No, but will the recommend be installed by default, if you install the meta?
<len-dt> Yes. All of our metas are just recommends in desktop
<len-dt> Many of the apps in desktop are recommends too.
<micahg> len-dt: openclipart is a meta package, did you want all 3 versions included (svg, png, libreoffice)
<micahg> len-dt: you also change qmidiroute in the alacarte commit without mentioning it
<micahg> bzr diff before bzr commit is a good way to review
<len-dt> Ok, sorry. openclipart. I am not familiar with Art/Graphics beyond fooling around. Svg are not something I would work with prefering pngs, but perhaps most graphics programs cover this and just open whatever.
<len-dt> micahg, the package notes for openclipart mentioned svg and png but not office
<len-dt> Would just the svg version cover all or most uses? One has to assume someone serious in art knows how to convert.
<len-dt> micahg, is it possible to edit or revert the first commit and do two... actually I could leave midiroute as it was.
<micahg> len-dt: just bzr revert -cREVNO where REVNO is the revision you want to revert and commit it with a note which revision you're reverting and why
<micahg> len-dt: as for openclipart, if you don't want all 3 packages pulled in, I suggest seeding the ones you want explicitly
<len-dt> Ya, I figured that much, I was asking if there are apps that would not deal with svg files. But you may not know.
<micahg> I'd suggest just the svg one (which is 39MB itself), the png one is ~125MB
<micahg> nope, no idea
<micahg> but then, someone can file a request if they want more
<len-dt> micahg, OK, I will revert both changes and redo them. Make sense?
<micahg> len-dt: nah, you can just change qmidicontrol back if appropriate and change openclipart to what you want it to be
<len-dt> micahg, my feeling is that most of the apps should be recommends. I changed that one only because I had added it. Can I leave it? How would I comment I had done that?
<micahg> len-dt: there's no good way to add a comment for a previous commit, if you want more visibility on why you did the change, you can send a note to the ubuntustudio-devel list
<micahg> len-dt: I can start the thread with a reply from the commit if you like
<len-dt> Ok.
<micahg> sent
<Len-nb> micahg, thank you for all your help.
<micahg> Len-nb: thanks for your work on Studio
<Len-nb> ailo, With regard to blueprint item: [ubuntustudio-dev] - update mixer plugin backend for pulse-jack (astraljava might have already done this in precise): TODO
<Len-nb> Is this done? Can we mark it so? This is in the liveDVD area.
<ailo> Len-nb: I don't know what that is
<ailo> mixer plugin backend for pulse-jack?
<Len-nb> I think he was talking about the tray icon launching pavucontrol
<Len-nb> I think the pulse-jack should just be pulse.
<ailo> If so, I suppose that is fixed with 12.04, right?
<ailo> Was there something missing still?
<Len-nb> I don't think so. It won't work if PA is removed :-)
<Len-nb> But those who remove things do so at their own risk...
<Len-nb> Scott was going from his list of notes of what didn't get done 12.04
<Len-nb> It may not have been up to date.
<ailo> Probably so. 
<len-dt> ailo, [len-ovenwerks] - update tray mixer plugin backend for pulse (astraljava might have already done this in precise)Yes he did: DONE
<len-dt> changed blueprint as above.
<len-dt> ailo, How do I remove a meta and it's depends?
<len-dt> A user said they had removed -graphics and -video and had problems with desktop operation.
<len-dt> I am trying to recreate the problem because I think we have a dependency problem...
<len-dt> When I try to use apt-get or synaptic to remove those metas, it just removes the meta but leaves the dependencies
<len-dt> There must be a command I don't know.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-24
<micahg> len-dt: umm, it depends on how it's installed
<Len-nb> micahg, I did a fresh precise install, then tried to remove -graphics and -video.
<Len-nb> The two meta files were removed but none of the deps
<micahg> yeah, on install it won't work as the depends are not marked as auto installed
<Len-nb> Don't know what happened to our user then.
<Len-nb> I do need to move a font out of fonts on to desktop though.
<micahg> Len-nb: you could just add it to desktop if the fonts metapackage is useful by itself without desktop
<Len-nb> micahg, OK, I will do that.
<Len-nb> Still waiting for release on -settings. I don't know if it matters, but what I have done so far fixes some things in precise, What I have next is all quantal
<micahg> ah, crud, right, that should get in for alpha3
<micahg> Len-nb: not so sure I like adding more stuff to /etc/skel
<Len-nb> I am not worried about the -look package so much, thought I did want to test it on install. It works fine on an allready installed system
<Len-nb> micahg, where would I put it?
<micahg> TBH, it sounds like a maintenance burden...I'm not sure the best way to do that
<micahg> Len-nb: mind if I revert that for alpha3?
<Len-nb> OK
<micahg> Len-nb: was Exec=Exec=exo-open a typo?
<Len-nb> It was one of the blueprint things. 
<micahg> Len-nb: I'm referring to Exec being there twice
<Len-nb> where is the exec thing? I'll look
<micahg> Len-nb: commit 127 in -settings
<micahg> otherwise, I think it's fine
<Len-nb> Thats strange... it works that way too.
<Len-nb> Ok I will change that.
<micahg> also, why in -look did you add a ubuntu-text.plymouth.in file?
<micahg> (commit 138)
<Len-nb> I was copying the way they did the vanilla ubuntu theme
<Len-nb> I don't know why they have it either
<micahg> right, but you should only need the Ubuntu Studio one, not the Ubuntu one
<Len-nb> OK micahg settings typo fixed.
<micahg> Len-nb: I assume it should still work that way...
<Len-nb> I'll remove the extra file in the other branch
<micahg> wfm
<micahg> ok, I'll revert the xchat thing then so I can get this uploaded and get to sleep
<Len-nb> I'll check., ya it works
<micahg> ok, test building and uploading, is there anything else that should be uploaded aside from a new -meta?
<micahg> Len-nb: you also need a depends on exo-utils to use exo-open in the package 
 * micahg is adding
<micahg> Len-nb: ok, unless there's anything else, I'll upload -settings now
<Len-nb> Thanks. settings is done and I have done the font in desktop too
<micahg> Len-nb: did you make any changes after the Exec fix?
<Len-nb> in settings no
<micahg> ok, thanks, will upload then
<Len-nb> Thankyou micahg I will test tomorrows ISO?
<micahg> there should be one at some point (no more dailies until after alpha3)
<Len-nb> I didn't know we were at alpha 3
<micahg> Len-nb: where is the theme shipped?
<Len-nb> It has been very quiet in here
<Len-nb> It is a depends in settings I think
<Len-nb> murrin is the package
<micahg> ah, so, murrine-themes needs a font?
<micahg> is this a studio specific thing?
<Len-nb> Nope it is not setting. You would have to ask Scott
<micahg> ok, I'll include it like that for now, but you might want to consider moving it to -look if appropriate
<Len-nb>  gtk2-engines-murrine, murrine-themes is dep in the -look branch
<Len-nb> Ya both deps should be in the same place.
<micahg> hrm, that seems like a redundent dep to begin with unless -look uses something specific from gtk2-engines-murrine
<Len-nb> There is a lot of that so people can install studio on top of vanilla of kubuntu or whatever.
<Len-nb> I don't know if it is the best either
<Len-nb> I don't want to make huge changes though
<micahg> sure, but murrine-themes depends on gtk2-engines-murrine, so, unless you're relying on something specific in there, it's an implementation detail of murrine-themes
<Len-nb> I didn't know that... bet Scott didn't either :)
<micahg> -meta uploaded as well
<Len-nb> Thanks, Is look going?
<micahg> yeah, I think so
<micahg> your image size might balloon a little :)
<micahg> but you're on a DVD already, so you've got room
<Len-nb> Ya, we know.
<micahg> sorry, I haven't had time to follow most of the threads on the ML
<Len-nb> Thats why I'm working on post install package deal
<Len-nb> If we try to include everything it will be a 5 DVD set
<Len-nb> No worrys about the ML. I can be verbose.
<ailo> len-dt: Seems like most tweaks can be done during runtime
<ailo> But, I'd like to find out if some perhaps should not be done during runtime, for whatever reason
<ailo> But as a starting point, I'll try make each tweak configurable during runtime, using a gui
<len-dt> ailo, ok
<len-dt> That would be good for testing anyway.
<len-dt> ailo, adding stuff to /etc/skel seems to be a problem. My tweak to get xchat to open #ubuntustudio is taken out. Not sure how else to do this.
<len-dt> I guess we could add our own *.desktop file and put it on the command line.
<ailo> len-dt: I think better fix whatever is not working with /etc/skel
<len-dt> Skel works, it was a policy thing, hard to maintain?
<len-dt> Read the irc log from last night... err this morning.
<ailo> len-dt: Where do applications usually keep their default configs?
<ailo> There is also /etc/default
<ailo> Er, but that won't help, I think
<ailo> len-dt: How does Ubuntu add the default config for Firefox? The bookmarks, etc?
<ailo> Should be done the same way?
<len-dt> I have been looking... can't find it. But there is a package they add I think.
<len-dt> I should look at that.
<len-dt> xul-ext-ubufox
<len-dt> It does a loy more than set bookmarks though
<len-dt> xchat puts an xpm in icons and a png in pixmaps... seems backwards :)
<ailo> I really don't like bash scripting syntax :(
<len-dt> It's something to get used to...
<ailo> len-dt: I've made a script that implements the hardware timers tweak. As I'm looking at it, the only thing that seems to be interesting to tweak is really just the value. Would you agree?
<ailo> Seems like that is a tweak that should be enabled by default, during install
<ailo> And the value should be set to 3072, but make it possible for the user to change it between the ranges of 1024 and 8192
<len-dt> permissions too. But the permissions should be set all the time.
<len-dt> I don't know if I would go so high as 8k though. That is higher than the midi standard it self.
<len-dt> 3072 is an odd number, but it is about the midi port speed.
<len-dt> I also suspect that the higher the number the more trouble it would be for a slower machine to keep up with.
<len-dt> ailo, in the end, the hard part looks to be finding a way of testing.
<len-dt> back in a minute
<len-dt> Hmm, ailo, addingthe url on the commandline for xchat doesn't seem to work...
<ailo> len-dt: I was just talking about gui implementation. It seems the general opinion is to have a range between 1024 and 8192
<ailo> And 3072 more or less as default
<len-dt> Ya, I saw that. I want to test the nigh numbers with audio running
<ailo> But, that we should find out by testing, as you said
<len-dt> I am thinking that on some machines the midi will be fine but audio may suffer.
 * len-dt is thinking there may be more xruns
<ailo> len-dt: I'm actually starting by making bash scripts of everything. Even for kernel building
<ailo> Best way to do testing
<len-dt> Speaking of kernel building, the one thing we don't have in there (aside from pre-empt) is tickless timers
<ailo> That is why we should try different configs
<ailo> I'd rather have uploaded kernels to PPA, but I can't bother putting time on finding out how
<ailo> The scripts have functions that the gui would
<ailo> So, if something is to be a variable, the scripts accepts argument(s)
<ailo> Withouth arguments, the script just uses default values
<len-dt> makes sense
<ailo> These scripts are only for making the tweaks. Then, we need scripts for the actual testing too. One that collects all relevant info of the system, and creates a log of the test results
<len-dt> You've done the easy part.
<ailo> Question is, what do we do to test the system, exactly?
<len-dt> Ya :)  
<len-dt> My thought is get the system to behave a bad as possible first.
<len-dt> Then look for a way of measuring that badness
<len-dt> Then we can see improvements that are finer than we can hear
<ailo> counting xruns is a given parameter. 
<len-dt> Yes
<ailo> The midi timing issue is a bit harder to automate
<ailo> For that you need some way of measuring the timing diff
<len-dt> Ya, It would be nice to be able to playback and record with the same app.
<len-dt> qtracktor doesn't seem to do that well.
<len-dt> I ended up using two instances, one to play and the other to record.
<len-dt> I need to try the whole mess over again with my netbook though as that is where I heard problems.
<len-dt> My desktop has been very solid, even with the USB midi port.
<ailo> len-dt: This look promising https://github.com/koppi/alsa-midi-latency-test/
<ailo> But that's only for inside the OS, I would think
<ailo> Nothing related to HW
<ailo> len-dt: Actually, seems it will test whatever it is connected to
<len-dt> It looks to be testing latency. Midi latency, so long as it is consistent, is not a problem
<len-dt> It can be corrected.
<len-dt> general timing errors can't
<ailo> len-dt: You get the diff in the form of best and wors
<ailo> So, it does test jitter as well
<ailo> What you do is you loop connect the HW. midi out to midi in
<ailo> I'm going to try my roland, using usb
<len-dt> Ya, that was what I did.
<len-dt> Some applications do not use the sessions idea of default browser.
<len-dt> non-mixer is one of these. I have default browser set to chromium, but non-mixer opens its help in firefox. wonder what it does if FF isn;t installed?
<ailo> len-dt: Maybe it's hardcoded?
 * micahg isn't sure what non-mixer is, but you want to check that stuff is using xdg-open generally
<len-dt> non-mixer is part of the non-daw set of applications. Much like jack-mixer but with more stuff built in.
<len-dt> I don't think it is in ubuntu repos ;-)  maintainer is falkTX
 * len-dt is working on special instances of software center that only show SW related to the menu they reside in.
<ailo> len-dt: Had to connect two different midi HW to get the loop going :). So, for you and me, we should be able to automate midi testing
<len-dt> I have to use a MIDI through to connect output to input.
<ailo> len-dt: I don't have a midi cable right now. At least both are usb, so it's easy to test on multiple machines
<ailo> Couldn't get the roland to loop only using the usb connection
<ailo> I also have a midisport 1x1 device
<len-dt> My roland does looping to external devices but not to the USB port.
<ailo> len-dt: I'm putting stuff here, while I'm sketching https://gitorious.org/ubuntustudio-testing/pages/Home
<ailo> I'm just trying to get a full picture of what we are doing
<ailo> What we should test
<ailo> len-dt: Anything missing there?
<len-dt> ailo, I would drop PCI latency. Using the sugested script made my machine unstable and more xruns as a result. Any newer system will have PCIe slots anyway.
<ailo> One thing that I think we should not do, is disabling things that don't do any harm anyway
<len-dt> blutooth?
<ailo> len-dt: The idea is we do tests, gather results, and then figure out what to do
<len-dt> swappiness? 
<ailo> It's there
<ailo> Under Filesystem
<len-dt> ok I see it now. My browser is set to a small font for that.
<len-dt> Both of my machines gave problems with jackd when ulatency was used
<len-dt> Jackd crashing
<len-dt> I think that is because jack does some of the same things using different system tools or the stock ulatencyd setup conflicts.
<ailo> len-dt: Perhaps rmlimits is preferred in that situation
<ailo> Seems to be all about cgroups
<ailo> rlimits, instead of PAM
<len-dt> might be.
<ailo> Using rlimits instead of PAM would be kind of a big change.
<ailo> But interesting to see how that works
<len-dt> The idea behind using ulatencyd in the first place was to set what apps should be forced to stay in ram and not get swapped out. This is turned off by default
<len-dt> ailo, to test swappiness... run a sequence and pump it into enough sound modules to use more than 40% memory... now try to use qjackctl.
<len-dt> I think I actually was using closer to 60% memory
<ailo> len-dt: You mean fill up 60% of RAM with something, and then try using qjackctl?
<ailo> Or does it have to be jack applications?
<ailo> Why qjacktl, in particular?
<len-dt> Probably has to be jack or at least those with memlock
<ailo> Ok
<len-dt> That was where I noticed the problem
<len-dt> It was like qjackctl had froze
<ailo> len-dt: You start qjackctl first. Then a bunch of apps. Then go back to qjackctl, right?
<len-dt> Ya.
<len-dt> It seemed to ok to get the connections made but then after running things for a while and going back to change routing, qjackctl was pretty much not usable for a bit.
<ailo> len-dt: And this happened when swappiness was high?
<len-dt> swappiness was at stock setting 60
<len-dt> This means when ram get 4o% the OS starts swaping things out
<len-dt> Not hard swaps but if they have sat around for a bit.
<len-dt> swappiness at 10 I can go for days with no swap at all, and if I use a lot of cache it may put some stuff there, but after that use it is stable again.
<ailo> len-dt: And did you ever see a situation where it would be good to have more swap on Ubuntu Studio?
<len-dt> I found no real difference from swappiness at 10 or at 0.
<ailo> I mean, more swappiness
<len-dt> even with swappiness at 0 the OS will swap stuff out if it has to
<ailo> Has someone said anything about that, what graphics are concerned, etc
<len-dt> 10 gives it a bit of time to start swapping things out before it has to just to run.
<len-dt> I have had comments that swappiness at a low value is good for graphics as well.
<len-dt> Also cpu frequency on full not ondemand.
<len-dt> at least one other person has had problems with xruns at speed change with ondemand.
<ailo> High swappiness is perhaps only suitable for servers?
<ailo> I've never measured how the cpu freq changes
<ailo> And how fast
<len-dt> high swappiness is good for high disk use applications
<len-dt> redhat now defaults to 40
<len-dt> even in their servers I think
<len-dt> There is a cpu throttling for jack, but from reading about it... all it does is set speed full while jack is running.
<ailo> len-dt: Where is the cpu throttling for jack, link?
<len-dt> http://rg42.org/oss/jackfreqd/start
<len-dt> I found the discussion at the bottom interesting.
<len-dt> It seems the same thing can be achieved by using ondemand and switching to performance when jack starts
<len-dt> Note this person also seems to have had xruns when the speed switches
<len-dt> That would make three, that I have heard of... the person he was talking to makes 4
<len-dt> There has been a suggestion, that running at a lower speed but solid with no changes would be fine too.
<len-dt> I think mine has 1/2, 4/6, 5/6 and full. Running at 5/6 may give less fan noise and heat but still run fine.
 * len-dt thinks he could do a lot at half speed
<ailo> Well, that's enough for one day. We have two things we know we can test automated: 1. xruns 2. midi latency(jitter). 
<ailo> Need to see about memlock and freezing apps tomorrow then
<len-dt> good.
<len-dt> I am going to work on install icons today.
<ailo> len-dt: I was just doing some testing with the alsa-midi-latency-test
<ailo> I adjusted max_user_freq between ranges 64 and 3072
<ailo> No change
<ailo> Don't know if this test app uses audio group
<ailo> Don't know how that works, concerning the HW timers
<ailo> Whatever I did, enabling, or disabling, had no effect
<ailo> Latency was mostly 4ms, with only a few stray misses, between 7-9ms
<ailo> But, then I tried with rtirq script
<ailo> And then, nothing abobe 5 ms
<ailo> Still, not really big jitter in either case, which is not my experience from before. So, I'll do some manual testing too, using ears and wave files
<ailo> I guess perhaps jitter doesn't come through on this test after all. Remains to be seen
<len-dt> ailo, That was what I found frustrating. I had heard timing all over the place, but when I tried to measure it... the problem vanished :P
<ailo> len-dt: Did you reboot in between changes?
<ailo> We really need to make sure to put down all possible data for automated tests to catch diffs
<ailo> I mean, collect all possible data
<len-dt> worse, two different machines :-)  I have to do some retesting
<ailo> len-dt: Actually, after redoing the test with the rtirq script running, I suddenly get the same result as without, pretty much
<ailo> Anyway, I should just create a test, and collect data to the mail list
<ailo> It'll speak for itself after all
<len-dt> fun fun.
<len-dt> ailo, I tried something different, but it still looks good... Hmm, I should check I may have the timers group audio on that machine.
<len-dt> Ran an external synth in with just a drum beat. Recorded a track. Then ran that out the port and in and recorded on the same instance of qtractor.
<len-dt> They line up really well. I will try it with out the timers accessible by group audio.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-25
<len-dt> ailo, The only thing I am seeing with midi timing is a general spread of notes that are played simultaneously. A lengthening of notes. I was using drum track with noteon/off pretty much the same time. (zero tics as far as qtractor could tell) all of the notes were at least .003 - .006 (3 to 6 tics) after going out the midi port and back. With rtc root.root it was mostly .008 or more.
<len-dt> I think default tic is 1/96 quarter note.
<len-dt> Three beats/notes that started out on top of each other, ended up beside each other... close to .020 difference with no rtc. about .010 with. This is with clocks at stock 64.
<len-dt> I think the reason my demo sounded so bad is that it is quite busy. I think you may find testing with 10 or 20 simultaneous notes will give a clearer picture.
<len-dt> Single note stuff was very good. 
<len-dt> ailo, this is continued on the list.
<ailo> len-dt: I see. The more activity, the more jitter, then
<ailo> len-dt: I got problems with a single track drum beat though
<ailo> Back when I did that
<len-dt> scott-work, Thank you for your comments on the list. The latest ISO has my fixes for the menu... including the help button which now actually does something other than error.
<len-dt> It points to our web page and as it sat going through the home page I noticed that publishing is already named as something UbuntuStudio is good for.
<len-dt> This makes not having a publishing section a bug. I will add a section to the graphics meta under the photography part and add the three apps we discussed.
<len-dt> I will also add a menu section for it. Hopefully we have an icon coming for that as that is the first one I asked for.
<len-dt> I will file a bug and link the blueprint item to the bug. And the changes to the bug.
<len-dt> scott-work, don't feel you need to comment about all this stuff, it is just a FYI thing.
<scott-work> len-dt: which three apps are you going to include in the graphics meta?  not alchemy and krita, right?
<len-dt> No, publishing, Scribus, fontmanager, fontforge
<scott-work> len-dt: oh yeah, sorry, answered  many email and dealing with way wicked stuff at work
<len-dt> krita will be up to the user to install, but I will leave a link.
<scott-work> len-dt: would you have fifteen minutes to add some notes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Alpha3 ?
<scott-work> you are more involved lately and know what has changed and needs checking
<len-dt> I will take a look.
<scott-work> it would need to be done in the next two hours basically
<len-dt> OK
<scott-work> if you can't i will make time
<len-dt> So you want me to tell what has changed for A3?
<len-dt> I just edit the doc?
<scott-work> aye, just edit the doc, but i would only mention "important" or notable things
<scott-work> the context is for the latest images to be checked
<scott-work> so i wouldn't note if we corrected a spelling mistake, for example, but i would note if we changed a setting for jack or similar that might change (hopefully improve!) performance
<scott-work> think of this as a channel for user and tester feedback
<len-dt> We haven't done that much, Fixed the the menu added afew apps. The tweaks are still in testing.
<scott-work> len-dt: if we can add anything to the technical overview, that would be good
<len-dt> I am editing it right now, should I include things we will do next?
<scott-work> no, just any technical aspect users or testing might encounter for this alpha image
<len-dt> I don't know if jackd has been fixed, but that would be upstream of us anyway. Not unique to US.
<len-dt> scott-work, Take a look ... is that what you wanted?
<scott-work> that looks good, thank you :)
<len-dt> scott-work, I will probably have the publishing stuff done today.
<scott-work> len-dt: good :)
<scott-work> but don't inlcude that in the techincal overview though :P
<len-dt> Too late.
<len-dt> Bug #1028938 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1028938 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubuntustudio-desktop does not include the publishing section mentioned on website" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028938
<scott-work> HEHE
<scott-work> oops, sorry for caps
<scott-work> hehe
<len-dt> falktx, does kxstudio have ffado drivers? (newer than ubuntu has)
<falktx> len-dt: yes
<falktx> latest svn, checkout 1.5 months ago
<len-dt> falktx, Thank you, there is a user on the other channel who is looking for it.
<micahg> we need to merge from Debian (they have svn2171 which is significantly newer)
<len-dt> micahg, Do you know if they have fixed jackd?
<micahg> debian 670985 is the only related thing I see
<ubottu> Debian bug 670985 in libffado "jackd2: firewire ERR: Incompatible libffado version!" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/670985
<len-dt> Bug #956438 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 956438 in jackd2 (Ubuntu) "qjackctl unable to stop jackd2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956438
<len-dt> this is actually a jackd bug
<len-dt> kxstudio ships jackd with this fixed
<micahg> we're in sync with Debian
<micahg> if there's a patch, let's get it in
<len-dt> I think his is patched.
<micahg> preferably through Debian multimedia
<len-dt> it's on my list :P
<micahg> I didn't mean now :)
<len-dt> I need to do some things with the kids today
<falktx> I think ffado needs to be rebuild with jack installed, so it knows what version to expect
<falktx> there was an issue about this for me, fixed by rebuilding ffado with libjack-dev
<ailo> Ah, missed the discussion here
<len-dt> sorry
<ailo> Seems like jackd2 is up to date on quantal
<ailo> I need to try it
<ailo> Nope, it's the same as on Debian Wheezy
<ailo> Same bug still
<len-dt> Just installed precise for testing - 240 updates - no kernel :(
<micahg> that's because no one's uploaded a lowlatency kernel for precise
<ailo> len-dt: /win7
<ailo> Sorry :)
<len-dt> micahg, That was my comment. I don't feel confident to take that over too.
 * len-dt has just a basic understanding of kernel stuff... enough to add a driver from early days.
<ailo> I am in the kernel team
<ailo> We planned on taking that over from TheMuso, but there was some inclarity as to who was going to maintain it in the future
<ailo> UKT is doing Quantal, as it seems, but not Precise
<ailo> I'll poke him about it
<micahg> it needs to go through the security team (or the kernel team)
<scott-work> leann (from UKT) seemed quite amenable to providing scripts to automating the updating of the lowlatency kernel
<scott-work> i'm not sure UKT has officially committed to updating the lowlatency kernel for Quantal, have they?
<micahg> they've been doing it
<micahg> no idea on future commitment
<ailo> I'll write an email to Luke, and ask him if he could help with a transition soon
<ailo> The jack_control bug on Debian has a bug report, and a patch for Debian
<ailo> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=675719
<ubottu> Debian bug 675719 in jackd2 "jack_control broken (obvious syntax errors)" [Important,Open]
<ailo> len-dt: So, you never had the same jackdbus issue with jack_control?
<len-dt> No
<ailo> len-dt: I thought you said that the bug was related to jackdbus, and not qjackctl
<ailo> In which other situation were you not able to kill jackdbus?
<len-dt> I thought you meant with the pacth applied.
<len-dt> Yes I had the same problem with jack-control with ubuntu's jackd
<scott-work> ailo: luke just removed himself from the ubuntu studio dev team
<scott-work> not sure if that is just a superficial thing to not get as many emails or it portends anything else
<len-dt> micahg, the new ubuntustudio-default-settings will not work for precise. There are three bugs: 1) help return doc not found 2) mixers in media playback
<len-dt> 3) accessories, education and network menu ittems have no icon.
<ailo> scott-work: Would still be nice if he could give some pointers as to how he was doing it,
<len-dt> I take it I need to branch off an older version and fix that
<ailo> Anyone know how to get access to the ubuntu git server, and add a repo there?
<micahg> len-dt: no, you should start with the precise version and merge the relevant changes in (start a new branch off of the last precise version if you'd like to continue to maintain for the LTS)
<len-dt> micahg, two questions: how do I do that? Is it worth while?
<ailo> I'll give Luke a couple of days to respond. Then I'll just start bothering the kernel team :)
<micahg> len-dt: well, it would be nice if you're planning on making future changes, then you can cherry pick stuff from devel
<micahg> len-dt: make sure the commits meet the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates requirements as well
<len-dt> Can I just push a new branch then?
<micahg> len-dt: yep
<len-dt>  I will name it similar to some older branches that are version specific
<micahg> version should start with $PRECISE_VERSION.1
<micahg> for the UNRELEASED changelog that is
<len-dt> Thanks. I will have some fun I guess. Please expect some mistakes whilst I learn
<astraljava> len-dt: With me in the project, believe me, micahg is more than used to mistakes. :)
<Len-nb> micahg, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio.precise.
<Len-nb> am I on the right track?
<Len-nb> micahg, second question. There are apps in the graphics meta that need to be divided into metas.
<Len-nb> Does that take outside work? or do I just great the seed files? And make sure the links are there from desktop etc.
<Len-nb> s/great/create
<micahg> Len-nb: yes, on the right track
<micahg> Len-nb: re new metas, the ubuntustudio-meta package needs to be respun
<Len-nb> Good, I will add only fixes for bugs
<Len-nb> But the respin is after the file changes. Will the respin automatically create any new metas in seeds?
<micahg> Len-nb: so, if you can cherry pick stuff from the quantal/trunk branch, that's best if appropriate (bzr merge -c REVNO /path/to/quantal's-default-settings
<micahg> Len-nb: please don't push any meta/seed changes unless they're needed for alpha3 until the freeze is lifted in case the DVD needs to be respun
<Len-nb> Some I can merge. the help one needs to be on its own though
<Len-nb> micahg, Ok, I should revert the seeds then. Can I shelve them?
<Len-nb> Or can they be unreverted later?
<Len-nb> and .. when is the freeze over?
<micahg> Len-nb: maybe revert for right now, as long as you don't uncommit it, you can always revert the revert later
<Len-nb> micahg, OK will do
<micahg> freeze is over sometime tomorrow when alpha3 is released (#ubuntu-devel should have the archive state in /topic)
<micahg> new metas also need changes in STRUCTURE
<Len-nb> Ya, I knew about structure. 
<Len-nb> micahg, ok I did bzr revert -r 1334
<Len-nb> do I just push? 
<Len-nb> Or do I have to commit?
<micahg> commit with a message why and then push
<Len-nb> right
<Len-nb> micahg, done.
<micahg> Len-nb: thanks
<Len-nb> np
<Len-nb> micahg, Please add to your list https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio.precise
<Len-nb> I would like to test a final package against a precise install (it all seemed to work here)
<Len-nb> Then I can figure out SRU... or do I have that backwards?
<micahg> Len-nb: you can build it yourself to test, then file the SRU paperwork, then I can upload
<Len-nb> micahg, is there an easy way to build on my machine?
<Len-nb> Or does it get done on the branch?
<micahg> Len-nb: pbuilder or sbuild
<Len-nb> Thanks.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-26
<Len-nb> utillities
 * Len-nb needs focus follows mind
<ailo> Len-nb: I'm still getting the jackdbus bug with latest jackd
<ailo> Even double checked with the kxstudio version
<ailo> jack_control is fixed, that's all
<ailo> I don't get the bug as easily, at least as it seems right now
<ailo> But I do get it eventually
<ailo> What a dream it is replacing jackd packages with custom ones..
<len-dt> ailo, I think there may be more than one bug with jackd
<ailo> len-dt: As?
<len-dt> Even with our version there seems to be two things. 
<len-dt> qjackctl has dbus fails and so does jack_control, but jack_control most times can be run again to restart jack.
<len-dt> but every once in a while jack fails badly and nothing works.
<len-dt> Jackd stops talking to dbus.
<len-dt> most of the time jackd just doesn't talk soon enough or forgets to reply or some thing
<len-dt> qjackctl doesn't seem to recover well for that.
<len-dt> I don't know if that makes sense
<ailo> I've been trying to find bug reports about it. So far, there's one in Ubuntu (plus at least one duplicate), and one in Debian
<ailo> Nothing in jack trac, AFAIK
<len-dt> There was quite a lot of talk on LAU for a while.
<len-dt> That was where the patch came from
<len-dt> ardour3b5 is out
<ailo> len-dt: You have a link, or remember the date somewhat?
<ailo> I don't remember reading about it
<len-dt> try around June 3 look for the thread LAU] [Jack-Devel] jack2 turned verbose
<len-dt> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-June/085239.html
<ailo> There was no patch
<ailo> Seems that they came to the conclusion that the problem is in GCC
<ailo> I remember reading about it, but had forgotten
<ailo> Thought it was solved, but apparently not yet anyway
<len-dt> partially solved...
<len-dt> I don't know if dbus does realtime that well... jack wants to deal with dbus quickly or at least spend its time dealing with audio most of the time.
<len-dt> What people tend to forget is that even when we aren't doing anything with audio, jack is still dealing with any connected app and all the I/Os. It works just as hard sending silence as noise
<ailo> I was trying to build jackd2 with gcc-4.6, but didn't work. Seems like libjack at least depends on gcc-4.7
<ailo> So, that would not work as a simple work around either
<ailo> It's unfortunate that such a bug has to exist on a LTS
<ailo> I've just spent half a day confirming whether the fix to a bug actually was a fix, to find out there was no fix
<astraljava> ailo: len-dt: Willing to test i386 of Alpha 3? I can do the amd64.
<ailo> astraljava: I'll be installing the amd64 version shortly
<ailo> i386 too, a bit later
<astraljava> ailo: Ok, thanks. I can do the i386 then.
<astraljava> A-ha, even better. Thanks. :)
<len-dt> astraljava, do you have the qa site url handy?
<len-dt> i386 runs and installs fine
<len-dt> The new menu items work as planned.
<len-dt> ailo, please check the four top menu items, web browser,  file manager, and terminal.
<len-dt> I had not thought of them, xfce4.10 may have changed them too.
<astraljava> len-dt: iso.qa.ubuntu.com
<len-dt> got it.
<len-dt> ailo-live, I was mostly checking menu stuff on my test as that is what I changed. I did not look at jack at all
<ailo-live> len-dt, Was just trying it a bit
<ailo-live> Installing right now
<len-dt> ailo-live, I am working on per/menu installers right now. About half done. They will go up after a3 testing is done.
<astraljava> ailo: Have you started testing already?
<ailo> astraljava: Yes. Just looking at the iso.qa.ubuntu.com site
<astraljava> ailo: Sweet! Thanks!
<ailo> astraljava: Oops. Which release is this? I realized I had downloaded the daily build
<astraljava> ailo: The image to be used is 20120724.1
<astraljava> They are dailies, Studio only has one container where builds go.
<astraljava> For milestones, only certain dailies are selected. And daily builds are disabled when a candidate is ready, and enabled again when milestone testing ends.
<ailo> astraljava: Shouldn't current be the right one, then?
<astraljava> I guess you mean should*, and yes. :)
<astraljava> ailo: So, as soon as you can mark the install results, I'll notify on -release to mark it as ready, and we'll have it included in the milestone announcement.
<ailo> It's done for amd64
<ailo> I'm not installing i386 today
<astraljava> Rockin'!
<astraljava> Len did i386.
<ailo> nautilus doesn't have a menu anymore
<ailo> I hate big icons
<astraljava> Thanks guys! Awesome work from you once again!
<ailo> len-dt: I think I prefer Thunar to Nautilus right now. 
<ailo> What do you think?
<ailo> They are basically looking the same, except Nautilus is weird
<ailo> It's not like that on Gnome
<ailo> No menu makes it hard to do change settings
<ailo> Nah, I found it
<Len-nb> I don't remember having a problem with nautilus. Nautilus has at least two features thunar does not. It has sftp built in and a file search.
<Len-nb> ailo, ^^
<Len-nb> ailo, holstein interesting, mixxx works just fine on my netbook...
<Len-nb> just won't fit on my screen
<Len-nb> maybe a video driver problem
<ailo> Len-nb: I was just having trouble finding preferences in the one button menu
<ailo> Also, it was hard to read, cause the theme is buggy
<ailo> At first it seemed all the options were only local to the folder
<Len-nb> Yes there are a lot of problems with theme
<Len-nb> Theme is black box stuff to me though
<ailo> I think it's just .css type of text
<Len-nb> Theme was the first thing I mentioned when the first ISO came out
 * Len-nb has never learned any css stuff
<ailo> Anyway, I found it
<ailo> mixxx has been working fine for me too, when I've tried it
<ailo> I have nvidia drivers
<Len-nb> I have the free ones
<Len-nb> They have issues
<ailo> Len-nb: You uninstalled the proprietary ones?
<ailo> Those were installed by default on this install
<Len-nb> They were never installed. Any time I have tried I can't get to X
<ailo> Len-nb: Is that the old card?
<Len-nb> I have an old card
<Len-nb> The MB is at least 8 years old
<Len-nb> The video card caps are starting to go... streaks across the screen
<ailo> Len-nb: Could I bother you for a second?
<ailo> What does 'uname -m' give you on i386?
<ailo> i386, or perhaps i686?
<ailo> Also, would you mind paste bin the kernel config on Quantal. If you updated, you should have /boot/config-3.5.0-6-lowlatency
<ailo> len-dt: Never mind. Installing..
<len-dt> ailo, sorry, I was finishing up the menu extra install items. On my 12.04 disk.
<len-dt> The family is off to the beach now. Be back in some hours... maybe when you wake up?
<len-dt> I'll boot 12.10 then and report (and test a bit more)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-27
<ailo> len-dt: I was just working on a script to build kernels. Going to set up VM's for both arches for development
<ailo> len-dt: I'm on an install that uses noatime for mounting the hard drives
<ailo> Not very smooth
<ailo> The hard drive has been active for a long time, and more or less freezes the system
<ailo> Periodically, that is
<ailo> Ah, yeah. My RAM is filled up
<ailo> tracker-miner-fs
<len-dt> ailo, The bug about jack_control... the kxstudio version had it and fixed it. I don't know if they passed the fix upstream or not. Ask Falktx next time he's on.
<ailo> len-dt: I've read about the bug. It's just a missing "(" from a python script
<ailo> Someone just added a bug about it
<ailo> And we should probably do a SRU with a patch for that
<len-dt> ailo, I don't think the version of jack that shipped with 12.04 had that bug.
<len-dt> I used jack_control frequently and in fact was the one who reported it to falktx when I found it in the kxstudio version of jackd I had.
<len-1210> ailo, with regards to nautilus in 12.10, can you confirm something for me?
<len-1210> Everything I tried that opens a file manager opens nautilus, even desktop icons for devices.
<len-1210> It appears thunar when used as the desktop or whatever is making device icons on the desktop, uses the user selected file manager.
<len-1210> There is a blueprint item to fix this... maybe it is fixed.
<len-1210> I also filed a bug report for nautilus: Bug #1029767 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029767 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "help button in preferences points to invalid page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029767
<len-1210> Is there a nautilus-doc package we need to install?
<len-1210> Confirmed that jack still has stopping problems, does not have the patch kxstudio has, and that jack_control is now broken.
<len-1210> ailo, I have an idea, Have a script run as the last thing on session start that looks for .mozilla and if it's no there, starts firefox with a local webpage introducing some of the features. This would create the .mozilla directory and the next session start would not have this feature.
<len-1210> This could be the same as what the help button shows.
<len-1210> good night.
<ailo> len-dt: I also tested the kxstudio version, and got the same issue with that one
<ailo> There's no patch
<ailo> len-dt: About thunar. It should be a configuration thing. If not Gconf, then, whatever XFCE uses
<ailo> len-dt: I had a go at trying to find the bug with the theme, and was able to change some colors. Unfortunately, it seems the change only comes after re-logging in
<ailo> So, hunting down the right line can be a bit of work..
<ailo> Usually, it would be when changing themes
<ailo> Aha, knome is the man to ask about that
<ailo> knome: Greybird seems to be in need of some maintenance. Is this inprogress?
<ailo> len-dt: I just spoke with nedko about this. Had forgotten about a patch, which did not fix the issue though. http://lists.jackaudio.org/private.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org/2012-April/009417.html
<len-dt> ailo, mhwaveedit plays with jackd so much nicer than audacity. It looks like the only downside is that audacity has some of it's own effects.
<len-dt> I think the one most people like is the noise reduction effect. However mhwaveedit does use any of the plugin effects we ship.
<ailo> audacity is the most popular open source multimedia app in the world, so just for that reason, it makes sense to keep it
<ailo> It's actually one of the most popular open source projects
<holstein> audacity is out right?
<len-dt> Ya, I know. I am thinking mhwaveedit may be something to sugest for people who are having issues with audacity
<holstein> i thought that was a bit odd, but i know how to install software from the repo
<holstein> im trying to keep quiet on the list about all the "where did my software go" chatter
<ailo> len-dt: I just tried mhwaveedit, but don't think it has much compared to audacity
<len-dt> holstein, I've added a per/menu installer based on software center that shows just SW for that menu.
<holstein> len-dt: i like that
<ailo> Audacity is a full fledged audio editor, and while there are a couple of others that come pretty close, function wise, I don't see anything coming close when it comes to user experience
<len-dt> I'me trying to make it so we can keep our DVD at a reasonable size while offering an easy way to get what people want for their system
<len-dt> Maybe we need to bug the audacity devs about how jack support is done.
<ailo> Audacity doesn't need jack support as other software does
<len-dt> For some cases it seems to need it.
<ailo> Since it's not a DAW
<ailo> But, it does work quite well with jack, in my vierw
<ailo> view
<ailo> Just that it doesn't keep the audio engine running, while stopped
<len-dt> We were talking to a user a while ago who uses channels 3&4 for input. Try that with pulse or jack
<ailo> len-dt: If you remember, all he needed to do was create a conneciton profile
<ailo> There are other jack compatible applications that do the same thing
<len-dt> It didn't work in the end.
<ailo> It did
<len-dt> portaudio kept opening different named ports every time. So the first run worked great.
<len-dt> the second record try failed.
<ailo> You're right. It makes new outputs each time
<len-dt> Anyway I was not suggesting to get rid of audacity, if for no other reason than everyone has seen it no matter what os they come from.
<len-dt> I am thinking... use Audacity->pulse->jack. The connection from pulse to jack can be setup 1&2 to 3&4 quite easliy
<ailo> That would work
<ailo> Weird about the channel numbers. 
<len-dt> And a connection profile should do that. I/we need to find out more about pulse setup.
<ailo> It is possible to create more jack sinks for PA
<len-dt> Some cards have mic pres in C1&2 or use 1&2 for spdiff
<ailo> vaev did that
<ailo> But, wouldn't the easiest way be just to create a profile in qjackctl?
<len-dt> Ack!, One is enough
<len-dt> The only problem is that there seem to be a lot of things that make pulse redo its connections
<len-dt> I found that I would do a disconect all to get all the pulse-jack stuff out of the way. But if I plug in a usb midi IF all the PA-jack stuff reconnects.
<ailo> If you have an active jack profile, the connections will stay the same
<len-dt> Good. So I can't manually change or add things?
<ailo> Er, not sure..
<ailo> Haven't used it much
<ailo> Going to try vlc now
<len-dt> Every time an application opens a PA port, PA changes my D66 patchbay settings.
<len-dt> If I have the monitor mixer set up for monitoring PA switches it to dac straight out.
<len-dt> PA also resets levels on the card.
<ailo> Seems like the program autoconnects, if it set to do so. vlc can be set to not auto connect
<ailo> So, if I have a profile, the profile connections will be set each time, but there will also be an auto connect to outputs 1-2
<ailo> Would be good to have a toggle for autoconnect y/n for audacity as well
<len-dt> Audacity when in Jack mode, should connect at session start and not dissconnect till the program closes.
<ailo> If it was designed to do that, yes
<len-dt> It should be. That is the proper way to work with jack
<len-dt> It is not a bad way to work with pulse either. But it would not work so well with ALSA dirrect.
<ailo> The problem seems to be that the jack part is just an adapter 
<ailo> Someone just needs to write the code
<len-dt> As far as I can tell audacity uses portaudio for all it's output.
<len-dt> I think it makes things easy for using the same code linux/win/osx
<ailo> What shows up in jack, is of course not portaudio
<len-dt> I don't know if audacity restarts portaudio every time the record button gets hit or not.
<ailo> But, as said, the jack code is just an adapter for the inner engine
<len-dt> Inmy pannel in jack it says portaudio
<len-dt> In fact it does not say audacity at all
 * len-dt should say in the qjackctl connection pannel
<ailo> Well, last time I checked, only jack can connect to jack
<ailo> There's jack code in Audacity, but it's very rudimentary
<ailo> They don't work on it themselves, it seems
<ailo> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Linux_Issues#JACK
<ailo> When you use alsa as a driver, it's not portaudio. The Audacity ports are called portaudio, and perhaps Audacity uses portaudio design for it's inner workings
<ailo> But the connection with jack is jack code
<ailo> I tried seeing if it was possible to run portaudio on Linux a while back. 
<ailo> Not out of the box, anyway
<len-dt> That webpage about sums it up all right
<len-dt> That was what I liked about mhwaveedit. As soon as the program starts, jack gets connected and stays that way.
<len-dt> How hard is it to do it that way? I wish my coding was better, I might patch audacity
<ailo> len-dt: You could look up some tutorials. There's a bit on jack homepage, and a guy on LAU was going to make some linux audio coding tutorials
<len-dt> As soon as Jack is selected in pref. the jack port should open and stay that way. record or playback should just send receive audio when  it needs to. This would require something running all the time sending silence or receiving and throwing away input.
<ailo> len-dt: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAudioProgrammingTutorials
<ailo> If I would guess, creating a true jack interface might be a bit of work
<len-dt> Yes.
<ailo> While adressing two other issues might be simpler: 1. don't create new output numbers each time Audacity output spawns 2. Add a toggle for auto connecting
<len-dt> I think the workaround for those using non-standard ports is to use pa-jack with a profile
<len-dt> any other use just use pulse.
<len-dt> Audacity is very useful, in its place. It is not a good multi-tracker or over dubbing app.
<len-dt> It is a great recorder though, and wav editor.
<ailo> It is primarily an editor
<ailo> A great tool for dealing with audio, not that great for creating music
<ailo> The only situation where creating music makes sense is when you are not using tempo or harmony at all. Just audio
<ailo> Recording is less important, but would be strange not to have that
<ailo> Usually you work with prerecorded material, when editing
<len-dt> Ya, that is why pulse or pa-jack would be fine.
<ailo> That's my view as well
<len-dt> I will include the other mhwaveedit as an installable if people want to install it after the fact.
<ailo> Is the menu going to be full of "install-this" now?
<ailo> Or is it a part of a search pattern for Software Center?
<ailo> len-dt: ^
<ailo> I mean, where you only have one "install-more"
<len-dt> Each menu would have one (and only one) install more icon.
<ailo> I installed two virtual vbox studios now, that share the home folder, so I can work on the same stuff from one desktop
<ailo> len-dt: Sounds cool
<ailo> Pretty practical with virtual systems really. Easy to back them up
<ailo> Just save snapshots now and then
<len-dt> It has been pushed to default-settings. Just needs to be rerolled
<len-dt> I need to do some work on the seeds. photogrphy needs its own meta and DTP needs to be created.
<ailo> I'll be contininuing with testing scripts
<len-dt> Audacity... now that I have been running it for a bit... most of the menu bar seems to vanish at some point...
<len-dt> I have half of the file button
<len-dt> It doesn't seem to be a display problem, minimize and unminimize don't seem to help and I only have acces to the file menu
<knome> ailo, did you try the github version?
<ailo> knome: Nope. I did notice that Greybird was not the only affected theme. gtk3 issues on most of them
<knome> ailo, try the github version. it should have most things fixed
<ailo> knome: Ok
<knome> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<ailo> Thanks
<knome> np
<len-dt> ailo, re vanishing audacity menubar. The audacity website says:
<len-dt> (Linux) On Linux systems using wxGTK 2.8.12 without Unity, closing Preferences will lead to loss of the Audacity Menu Bar (only "Fi" from "Files" will be visible). On Ubuntu using the Unity shell, a small black square will appear, but the Audacity menu in the Global Menu is unaffected. Workaround: Resize (or maximize/unmaximize) the Audacity window after closing Preferences. Solution: This is a wxGTK bug, as reported here (http://trac.wxwidgets.or
<len-dt> g/ticket/13280) and fixed in changeset 67929 (http://trac.wxwidgets.org/changeset/67929). To resolve this problem, wxGTK 2.8.12 needs to be patched on the target system, ideally by updating the distribution package. This fix will be included in wxGTK 2.8.13
<len-dt> falktx, I am playing around with software center to set up installers in menus to add extra software. The SW center doc says I can include an apt-url. I would like to try including some of the apps on kxstudio
<len-dt> Is there a url where I can see the dep files on my browser?
<falktx> hm?
<falktx> apt:/ stuiff?
<len-dt> I think SW-C needs the complete url right down to the file name. probably the https:// one
<len-dt> but apt:// might work too.
<len-dt> And then I might run out of command line room real quick :-)
<ailo> len-dt: Just make sure it's clear to the user, that it's a question about unofficial PPA packages, and that it has links to what that means
<ailo> Would be cool if PPA could be added from SW
<ailo> Or just single packages
<ailo> Software Center, not SW
<ailo> It should probably be possible to create a package for adding PPA
<ailo> And upload it to the Ubuntu repo
<ailo> But, again. It's important that the user knows it's not official
<ailo> len-dt: If you go to a PPA page on launchpad, you can always download packages inpedently from there.
<ailo> Works fine, if you don't require dependencies
<ailo> In that case, adding a PPA would be the best
<ailo> I don't think a KXstudio PPA is the optimal, or not sure
<ailo> Would be better to have at least two different ones
<ailo> One for adding software we don't have, and one for updates
<len-dt> ailo, I see what you mean. The chances of not needing deps is pretty small.
<len-dt> It is best to include the name of the packages (which just don't show if the PPA is not active) and have another way of adding/removing ppas
<len-dt> I think it would need to be ubuntustudio specific. Something in a script would be best, or better than new software.
<micahg> no including PPAs in the default install :)
<micahg> if something needs to be fixed, let's fix it
 * micahg would love to see the KXstudio people pushing fixes into the archive
<micahg> or even better to Debian
<ailo> micahg: I think we're just fooling around with ideas so far, but there has been an idea of keeping official Ubuntu Studio PPA's as addable extras
<ailo> There are some software that aren't included in the main repo
<ailo> Don't know the specifics of licenses, etc. How that would work
<ailo> Still, it's fun just to see what different solutions you can come up with. Adding a PPA from the menu might seem a bit drastic. But, how is it, if you would create a package specifically for it, that would show up in Software Center
<ailo> There are PPA's and PPA's after all
<micahg> ailo: I'd suggest pushing them to Debian and leveraging backports, more users will benefit
<ailo> micahg: We can't push things like linux-sampler
<micahg> why not?
<ailo> gpl, with an addition..
<micahg> is it redistributable?
<ailo> I don't remember the specifics, but I'm sure it would have been pushed a long time ago, if it was possible.
<ailo> All it's tools are redistritable, but not the linux-sampler server itself, at least not without some conditions
<ailo> I think mostly they are trying to avoid companies adding it to hardware samplers
<micahg> so, it would go in non-free then
<ailo> There's also cinerella
<ailo> Same sort of dilemma
<micahg> debian 561443, free for the taking
<ubottu> Debian bug 561443 in wnpp "RFP: linuxsampler -- realtime audio sampler" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/561443
<micahg> I'd suggest joining Debian multimedia and preparing packages
<ailo> I guess so..
<ailo> I'm going that path
<micahg> this way every derivative of Debian can have access to these packages as opposed to those who happen upon a PPA
<ailo> Yes, of course. I've read about linux-sampler in the past, and something about why it had not been packaged yet
<ailo> But, doesn't hurt putting some focus on the issue
<micahg> Len-nb: need a meta upload?
<micahg> or do you have more changes you're making (the photography seed looks good)
<Len-nb> micahg, I was going to see how that went, but if you like I can do the publishing meta first
<micahg> Len-nb: whatever you like
<micahg> each new binary requires a NEW  queue review
<Len-nb> If I do this first, then there will be another quite soon
<micahg> right, so, when you're ready, let's just upload it all so it only needs 1 review
<Len-nb> new binary added to the seeds?
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> it'll show up in binary NEW after upload and it's built
<Len-nb> I haven't added any new binary so far, just finished what was supposed to be done last cycle
<micahg> ubuntustudio-photography will be a new binary
<Len-nb> OK, I will add publishing first then
<Len-nb> Then there will be two
<micahg> hrm, I just found a bug in the packaging as well :-/
<Len-nb> mine or old?
<micahg> old
<Len-nb> anything I should fix? (or would know how?)
<micahg> no, it should be fixed on the next upload
<micahg> it's not in the seed, but in the -meta packaging, one of the substitution variables is wrong
<Len-nb> ok, should I still add publishing now then?
<micahg> at your leisure, I should probably review the whole thing in depth before I upload which won't happen before Monday
<Len-nb> Ok thanks
<Len-nb> micahg, in case you haven't noticed ubuntustudio-default-settings is changed too. (again) I think I'm finished for now on that.
<micahg> nope, haven't noticed, can try to look at it Mon or Tue
<micahg> I'm only subscribed to the seeds
<Len-nb> whenever.
<Len-nb> micahg, that should be it.
<micahg> ok
 * Len-nb means for the seeds
<len-dt> ailo, do you still have a machine running quantal? If so, could you check if after making a new directory on the desktop, if you double click on it if it gets opened by nautilus?
<len-dt> I think that is the only thunar to nautilus thing I haven't checked.
 * len-dt is off for family time.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-28
<acmeinc> what is the latest kernel version on U-S 12.04?
<len-dt>  3.2.0-23-lowlatency-pae... still
<acmeinc> ah, ok, thx.  i reverted back, so just making sure i iddnt miss anytihng
<acmeinc> oh one more, has anyone tried the 3.5 kernel on 12.04 yet?
<ailo> acmeinc: We'll soon be doing some extensive testing on Quantal
<ailo> acmeinc: First impression is the kernel is more or less like Precise
<ailo> I think having double entries for applications in the menus is a mistake
<ailo> There are enough applications as it is
<ailo> I would like to scrap the idea of using the menu streamlined for workflows
<len-dt> ailo, I have asked Scott who added them.
<ailo> Especially as a workflow can't be perfectly defined.
<len-dt> ailo, scrap ok, what would you do instead
<len-dt> We still need to break up the menus more than stock.
<ailo> len-dt: If one wants to help guide the user to workflows, it must be by a workflow application
<len-dt> Audio was too big
<len-dt> Ok, I agree with the workfow application
<ailo> The menu is a categorized list. It doesn't support multiple category layers
<ailo> I mean, it does, if you add the same application entry in many places
<ailo> But that is not a good way to do it
<len-dt> That says nothing to me. explain as to how this would work
<ailo> I'm just saying that the menu doesn't serve well for workflow guidance
<len-dt> Ok so what would you do instead of what we have now?
<ailo> len-dt: As I said. Create an application for workflows
<len-dt> I agree that someone doing a video that wanted to work on audio would still go to the audio part of the menu.
<ailo> And even if you don't create one, the menu is still not good for workflows
<ailo> It's just confusing having audio apps in a category that says video
<ailo> Or vice versa
<len-dt> So you are saying splitting the the menus is ok, but double listing items is not?
<ailo> No one thinks of the category as a workflow. They think of it as a definition for the applications, per application
<len-dt> Or listing items outside of catagory is bad.
<ailo> Splitting the menu is fine, as long as it's not over done
<len-dt> Ok. I agree. Thats two of us. 
<len-dt> What do we do?
<ailo> I say scrap multiple entries
<ailo> And categorize applications per definition. Forget about workflows in the menu
<ailo> As it has always been
<len-dt> OK, can we do that without more people's input?
<ailo> We should talk with Scott
<len-dt> The general feedback I have got to having audio production separate from multi-media has been good.
<ailo> I like having a tidy menu, with a fair amount of categories
<len-dt> In my opinion the multi-media menu entry is a mess
<ailo> Nothing wrong with that
<ailo> As long as the category is accurate for the application under it
<len-dt> having simple scan in every menu is a bit much though :-)
<ailo> It's hard to categorize very deeply, since many apps are multi purpose
<ailo> But that's not a major problem
<ailo> As long as you don't find one application in three different menus, etc
<ailo> Only one
<len-dt> I am willing to do menu editing, but I would like a list of changes. I often don't know from looking at a app name what they do or do best.
<ailo> As the last comment on the bug report suggest, no one is even considering the application is put there because of a workflow. Everyone assumes it is placed there because of technical definition
<len-dt> ailo,  I think documentation on workflows would be better way to go, as there are so many possible workflows.
<ailo> I haven't looked closely, but I think those two apps are probably the only one that have double entries?
<len-dt> pavucontrol, simplescan
<ailo> len-dt: Documentation, or an application. Documentation first, anyway
<len-dt> I am thinking to remove pavucontrol from the mixers menu and just leave it in media playback.
<ailo> That one is a bit ambiguous
<len-dt> Running pavucontrol starts pulse even if the session is set up not to start pulse.
<ailo> It is a mixer, but it's also a general purpose application for non audio users
<len-dt> on another topic... with the livedvd install, it is not possible to remove a meta and it's appliactions after install.
<len-dt> As it used to be with the altinstall
<ailo> I think maybe reintroduce the choices for the different metas during install
<len-dt> I am working on an email to the list on this subject right now...
<ailo> And not separate audio into different installation tasks. Just have the workflows: audio, graphics, video, photography and publishing
<len-dt> we may have to redo video for that to work.
<len-dt> ailo, ok new item on the list.
<len-dt> complete with spelling error :P
<len-dt> ailo, where should simple-scan go?
<len-dt> I think it is 4 or 5 places just now.
<astraljava> I'd say Graphics.
<astraljava> What are the other categories that it is in now?
<len-dt> It is also in office, accesories, probably publishing.
 * len-dt spelling is going down hill fast
<astraljava> Office is acceptable, but from others it could be removed.
<len-dt> It would be nice to get all the menu changes in one email. Easier for me to do and reference.
<astraljava> Is there a thread about it?
<len-dt>  	[Bug 984970] Re: Audacity and Inkscape are in the video production menu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 984970 in ubuntustudio-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Audacity and Inkscape are in the video production menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/984970
<len-dt> could be used
<astraljava> I'd say keep bug discussion topic-related only. But another could be filed that holds them all.
<astraljava> Or well, just rename the bug, of course.
<len-dt> I have made a branch of ubuntustudio-default-settings for precise for fixing some of these bugs there. But from the comments I am  getting to some of these bugs no one expects them to get fixed for 12.04 they are quite happy that they are getting fix for quatal
 * astraljava isn't thinking, but what else is new...
<len-dt> Should I leave the 12.04 fixes alone as to trivial?
<len-dt> The three menu bugs in 12.04 are: items in the wrong place, menudirectories missing icons and the help item goes nowhere.
<acmeinc> ailo and len, in regards to the kernel for quantal, is there one i can try on precise?  i wouldn't mind loading up a new kernel if it could potentially fix my mdadm problems
<astraljava> The latter two are absolutely bugs. Maybe the first one, too, but not too concerned of it really.
 * len-dt is not kernel knowledgeable
<len-dt> Are they all sruable?
<astraljava> The last two, definitely, IMHO.
<len-dt> The items moved are not the ones discussed here, but those could be done too.
<astraljava> I'd ask for opinions on -bugs, before trying to include that change.
<len-dt> Ok, thanks. I find the sru wording leaves a lot of room for interpretation.
<len-dt> acmeinc, I don't know if the 3.5 kernel has lib stuff that won't work with 12.04.
<len-dt> The easiest way to get it is to fire up the 12.10 alpha livedvd and use synaptic or apt-get to just download the files and then try installing them and see. A reboot to the old kernel should allow getting out and then uninstall if needed.
<ailo> acmeinc: Have you followed if that problem has been fixed?
<ailo> acmeinc: I would google on it, and perhaps use linux mail list archive as a reference for searches
<ailo> acmeinc: Sure it's not a mdadm bug, contrary to a linux bug?
<acmeinc> ailo, yea, from what i've read its almost certiainly a "debian" bug somewhere along the line, whether it be kernel or what not.  The developer has not intentions (from what I've read) to correct problems with any other disto except his, suse.  I think he's expecting other dists to work around any issues which come up along the way with mdadm
<len-dt> ailo, I want to mark off "ubuntustudio-q-misc 	Medium 	- user - See to that nautilus is default for everything (the desktop)" as DONE
<len-dt> any comments? I can't get thunar to should up in any context.
<len-dt> s/should/show
<astraljava> len-dt: Sounds good, although in the very rare cases I fire up a GUI file manager, I tend to use Thunar instead. :)
<len-dt> astraljava, in quantal? with xfce4.10?
<len-dt> I've tried everything I can think of... what have I missed?
<astraljava> No, I meant I manually open that one instead.
<len-dt> Oh I see.
<len-dt> I think the option is there to set default to whatever.
<astraljava> Yes I bet there is, but I rarely bother to change them. Only the editor, so that when another app opens it (say, git/bzr commit), I get vim instead of nano. :)
<len-dt> considering that it all works, I don't  see any reason to try setting up the desktop to be something other than thunar
<astraljava> I'm not sure I understand that line.
<len-dt> right now thunar makes the desktop. If you copy a file to the desktop it is thunar tjhat displays it
<astraljava> Oh ok, right got it now.
<len-dt> However, even if I create a folder on the desktop when I open it it operns with nautilus.
<astraljava> Well I bet you're right. Only reason could be to shave off a few megs, but since we don't seem to really care, I don't think we ought to bother.
<len-dt> I've marked it DONE.
<astraljava> Good, good.
<Len-nb> need to test tomorrows ISO to make sure text background has been fixed in bug 1016713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016713 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Different greys in LightDM shutdown and accessibility menus" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016713
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-07-29
<len-dt> holstein, if you backtrack in the logs to just before your conversation with Submarine, there is a bit of spam. It seems to be the same person as before:
<len-dt> * al4nc4ds (~alan@unaffiliated/al4nc4ds) has joined #ubuntustudio
<len-dt> * al4nc4ds http://www.wifislax.com/
<len-dt> * al4nc4ds has quit (Quit: Leaving)
<len-dt> Alan Cads? seems to be trying to make himself untraceable.
<len-dt> I wonder how many of these will show up in all the logs.
<holstein> len-dt: interesting
<holstein> i thought i had talked to submarine before though
<holstein> over a year ago
<holstein> i did notice alan :/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-22
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'm documenting our packages here now 
<zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioPackages
<zequence> I'm going to create a wiki page for each package, explaining what it is, and when it existed in the repos
<zequence> And one page for each source package, and one for each binary package
<zequence> After I'm done, I'll reorganize the blueprints. Making one blueprint for each package
<zequence> Seems like the best way to go, don't you think?
<zequence> Non package projects get their own blueprints as well, such as website or PR, and things like that
<zequence> or maybe I'll just use the launchpad pages instead, and just list them in the wiki. Seems like less work :P
<zequence> I'll use both, what the heck
<zequence> OvenWerks: Think I got them all now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioPackages
<zequence> next, the blueprints :P
<OvenWerks> zequence: works fine for me.
<OvenWerks> zequence: I was thinking to add ubuntustudio-installer as a part of ubuntustudio-menu. But I think that because we are widening the scope of use, it is better to have it's own package. For one it would allow it to be used to install the menu :)
<OvenWerks> basically, The package list to install would be on the command line. So it could be used for different things by adding a new desktop file.
<OvenWerks> This would allow our extra SW items to be used in all DEs.
<zequence> OvenWerks: definately in its own package
<zequence> I'd rather think UNIX
<zequence> small tools that each do one thing well
<zequence> it's easier to maintain too
<zequence> I think
<OvenWerks> I'll start in my own branch and PPA to develop then ccreate one in SU-dev
<zequence> and it doesn't make sense to have to install the menu in order to install some packages
<zequence> OvenWerks: Create a project for it
<zequence> OvenWerks: Or I can do it
<OvenWerks> I should be able to just push a branch
<cub> Hello people
<zequence> cub: hi
<OvenWerks> o/
 * cub is still on vacation with poor wifi
<zequence> OvenWerks: Well, sure. I can wait with the project, but it's best we create a project for it later on
<zequence> Seems like a lot of people are on vacation now. Wonder why :P
<zequence> cub: Where are you?
<cub> In Tidaholm, outside SkÃ¶vde
<cub> renting a small cottage close to my GF family
<zequence> cub: Pretty awesome weather, isn't it
<zequence> my belly looks like a giant rÃ¶dbeta
<zequence> I forgot to put sun lotion on it the other day
<cub> very, I'm surprised with this Swedish summer. I was planning to read a lot and gather studio documentation
<cub> I have done neither. :D
<zequence> Yeah, tell me about it
<zequence> I also started dating
<zequence> Been pretty crazy for me lately
<cub> ooh
<cub> How did the linux teaching go?
<zequence> One of those dating sites. It works :P
<zequence> It went fine
<zequence> They liked me
<zequence> I'm supposed to do another three weeks, but not sure yet
<cub> dating, yeah, I met my GF through shakemyworld site
<cub> four years later we have bought a home, car, got a dog and a daughter. :)
<cub> so, met anyone you might see again?
<zequence> cub: Yeah, I did
<zequence> and that's kind of the problem :P
<zequence> but it's a good problem
<cub> hehe
<cub> it will limit time for other projects, that's for sure
<cub> ubuntuforums.org is still down for cleaning up?
<cub> running out of battery
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-23
<OvenWerks> zequence: do you know what ${misc:Depends} in the control file expands to?
<zequence> OvenWerks: It's a variable to let debphelper figure out if you need any more depends
<zequence> How exactly it works, I don't know.. yet :P
<zequence> you can find some info about it in the manual for debhelper: man debhelper
<zequence> OvenWerks: I was just looking into the usb kernel bug. Not sure, but it might be about to get fixed
<zequence> LP #1103018
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1103018 in linux (Ubuntu) "line6usb - POD Studio UX2 Playback problem. Very robotic and slightly slower than usual" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1103018
<zequence> there are a bunch of bugs that may be related, not sure
<zequence> seems like they've had problem pinning it down
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-24
<maerz> ciao
<zequence> maerz: Hello
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-25
<micahg> OvenWerks: if ardour from Debian experimental builds (2.8.16), are there any objections to syncing it?  we currently have 2.8.14 but it fails to build even with a boost patch
<micahg> OvenWerks: nevermind, still fails
<OvenWerks> micahg: we would really like ardour 3.* synced. Is this a problem with general ubuntu package upheaval?
<OvenWerks> I am thinking it almost would have made sense to skip a release... I can see why the push for R.R.
<OvenWerks> zequence: wow, there is a 3.10 lwolatencey kernel out.
<micahg> OvenWerks: is it packaged?
<micahg> OvenWerks: if zequence can get it sponsored into Debian, I'll be happy to sync it
<zequence> micahg: It still needs a little bit of work
<micahg> you've got about a month until feature freeze :)
<zequence> I won't have any time until after 30th, but I've been meaning to do some work on it
<zequence> OvenWerks: apw, on the kernel team is going to do one or a couple of updates to -lowlatency, and then hand it over to me
<ttoine> zequence, I finally found time to make the "boutique"
<princeraven> Hello Ubuntu Studio Developers :)
<princeraven> Is it the right way to help you with developing Ubuntu Studio?
<princeraven> I'm new to irc :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-26
<ttoine> zequence, check http://ubuntustudio.spreadshirt.fr/
<ttoine> I eventually found some time yesterday evening
<ttoine> I sent a email to Zak
<zequence> ttoine: Nice, but why is the text below the CoF on the cup?
<ttoine> zequence, because it was not possible to do it in landscape
<ttoine> the print zone on the mug is divided in 3 portrait
<ttoine> and in landscape, it would have been very very small
<ttoine> and so, the logo is not in the good position
<zequence> ttoine: How abut just keeping the CoF then?
<ttoine> I think I will redo the mug with the design of the white shirt
<zequence> It looks a bit weird to me. The placement is off
<ttoine> zequence, another possibility is to let the cof on one side, and put the text on another print zone, for example on the left border of the center print zone
<zequence> ttoine: That would be great, if you could do it
<zequence> yes, that would work too
<ttoine> what is strange is that in the svg Zak send me, I can't do anything except export to bitmap
<ttoine> it is locked
<ttoine> I don't know how he did that
<zequence> you should be able to unlock stuff
<ttoine> in inkscape, I can't find where
<ttoine> he should have used an authoring option I don't know
<ttoine> zequence, except the mug, what do you think of the shirt ?
<zequence> He's back now, so he should be able to help (he was gone for a few weeks now)
<ttoine> I selected direct digital printing, because transfer was possible only on white
<ttoine> and this is organic cotton
<zequence> The t-shirts look good, I think
<ttoine> I could have used a very basic cotton shirt to get it 3 or 4 â¬ less expensive
<ttoine> but I remember that zak and you would like to have nice hardware
<ttoine> quality hardware
<ttoine> just to let you know, I can suggest the default color for every logo, but people can select another color if they want
<zequence> I guess at least so you don't feel ashamed of it :P. The price is a bit high, but maybe it's worth it? I'm going to buy a t-shirt right away
<ttoine> I think I will buy the blue one, i'll check if I can this month. with the moving from lyon to vercors, I am a bit short
<ttoine> zequence, I updated the mug whith a cof in the good direction
<ttoine> As soon as I have some news from Zak, I will ask him How I can split the design in to separate parts. Keep in mind that the mug will be more expensive with to printed zone, so maybe we will have to keep the current one, and add the second one, more expensive
<ttoine> zequence,  I show spreadshirt to my Boss, and he asked me to work on stuff for Bonitasoft Community ;-)
<ttoine> oh, and please, could you spread the world about our merchandise shop ?
<zequence> ttoine: I just want to try the t-shirt and make sure I know all the details about this, then I'll create a page for it on our website
<ttoine> ok
<zequence> The t-shirt should be here in a few days. 
<ttoine> I'll send just a tweet on my account. It could be good to get some feedback. after all, we are a community, it is good if people can tell us what they think
<ttoine> zequence, which one did you take ?
<zequence> ttoine: I took the blue one as well
<zequence> I'll probably buy more colors later :P
<zequence> ttoine: The mug looks much better now I think.
<zequence> I'll buy that as well, to have a look
<ttoine> yes sure
<cub> Hi ttoine nice work with the shop!
<cub> I was wondering about the sizes though, couldn't find any information on how big a Medium is for instance. And don't they sell anything smaller than M?
<cub> Hmm I see now it sorted under "Men". If there's not any other fee involved I think we should have t-shirt sizes for women (and children) as well. I know I would buy them.
<cub> I found the measurements for the different sizes when you clicked on the shirt. Nice.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-27
<OvenWerks> zequence: getting things to work in ubuntustudio-install with packages on the commandline was much harder. I finally gave up on bash and have moved to perl. perl deal much nicer with strings than bash does.
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio-install now takes packages on the commandline checks to see if they exist in the repos the system knows about, grabs the description at the same time... 
<OvenWerks> then creates the selection dialog and installs whatever the user has selected.
<OvenWerks> The install progress screen is writen in perl, so no new depends are added as I am not using any special perl modules or extras.
<OvenWerks> (30 lines of code, 20 lines of comments)
<OvenWerks> zequence: new branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-installer
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have uploaded ubuntustudio-installer to my ppa so I can see how it builds and installs.
<OvenWerks> It is missing an icon for the desktop file... I'll work on that unless one of our artists beats me to it :)
<zequence> OvenWerks: Nice. I'll try it out tomorrow
<zequence> We also need to do something about -controls before feature freeze. My idea right now is to do a quick rewrite of it
<zequence> make it a simple indicator app, with launchers to system settings and your installer
<OvenWerks> zequence: sure, I was thinking that a generic uninstaller might be nice too.
<OvenWerks> (as in a generic kernel uninstaller)
<OvenWerks> but we should fix grub to default to low latency anyway.
<OvenWerks> Hmm, if a package/meta is already installed, I should probably not list it :)
<OvenWerks> It doesn't hurt anything to list already installed stuff... makes easier testing. I will put a switch in my code to turn it off and on.
<holstein> OvenWerks: its just like...
<OvenWerks> Ya I know.
<holstein> "i want to help!, how can i help?!"
<holstein> and the first thing on the list is /join this channel ;)
<holstein> whatevs...
<holstein> you never know
<holstein> they might test iso's
<holstein> that would be helpful
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw started that way too.
<holstein> yup
<holstein> and he's quite helpful
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-07-28
<madeinkobaia> Hi all :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-23
<DalekSec> My word.
<zequence> OvenWerks: I got my upload rights now :).
<smartboyhw> Ohio zequence, Noskcaj, OvenWerks ;) Came to visit you here. How's it going?
<Noskcaj> wow, smartboyhw is back
<smartboyhw> Well, only for today:)
<Noskcaj> pretty good. How are you?
<smartboyhw> Great
<Noskcaj> A few of your old ITPs have been taken, i assume there were none of those you really wanted?
<smartboyhw> No, I'm busy with study here. But it's summer holiday, so I think I should come around and visit. 
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj, if you want to take all of the ITPs, I don't mind.
<smartboyhw> Can you help me to open a Debian bug to orphan zbackup also?
<Noskcaj> smartboyhw, I took the xfce4-whiskermenu one, some other guy took the terminology one
<Noskcaj> sure
<Noskcaj> But why does your country have such hard school?
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: Ask why Hong Kong has a crap education system.
<smartboyhw> And I will go all fired.
<Noskcaj> :)
<smartboyhw> We got a lot of tuition courses to attend, and homework to do.
<smartboyhw> And more importantly: Your coursework contributes to the actual public exam results 
<smartboyhw> So I'm currently reading a book for that.
<Noskcaj> We just do the minimum till year 11, then two years of fairly hard schooling, then done
<Noskcaj> for zbackup, can't you just modify an old O bug
<smartboyhw> zequence: If you still have the T-shirt with you, I will send you the address in a few days. 
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: I can. Let me do that now, just before I forget about it again.
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: Debian Bug #755773 for you
<ubottu> Debian bug 755773 in wnpp "RFA: zbackup - Versatile deduplicating backup tool" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/755773
<Noskcaj> Wouldn't O be more applicable?
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: I don't know, I haven't touched the rules for a whoe year -_-
<smartboyhw> *whole
<Noskcaj> O = orphaned, you can't maintain it anymore. RFA =Still maintaining it, but don't want to
<smartboyhw> Oh, OK, retitle then
<smartboyhw> Noskcaj: There you go for the retitling
<Noskcaj> cool
<zequence> smartboyhw: Good to see you Howard. Yes, I still have the t-shirt. But, I used it a couple of times. I will send you a new one shortly.
<zequence> It's hot, hot here...
<smartboyhw> zequence: It's hot, hot here too... :( How's Studio?
<smartboyhw> Got some new features in the works?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Sure, the work goes slowly, but we're getting a new CD size ISO soon.
<zequence> smartboyhw: Also, I got upload rights just now, so I can do our uploads myself
<smartboyhw> zequence: Wow, great. CD sized ISO? So, now I can do a 700MB studio install soon? That's nice
<zequence> smartboyhw: The trusty ISO has a plugin that lets you deselect packages, but the way it works is it first installs everything, then removes what one deselected
<zequence> The CD size will not ship with our packages. A new plugin is needed, which can install stuff over the internet too
<zequence> Or, rather, our multimedia packages won't be shipped with the CD size ISO :)
<smartboyhw> Ah, I get the idea. So basically, that CD-sized ISO is a Studio-themed Ubuntu without multimedia.
<smartboyhw> zequence: How many new volunteers have you got since I left?
<zequence> smartboyhw: We have Ross, who has done some good things for us.
<zequence> People show interest, but very few end up being productive
<smartboyhw> zequence: As usual -_-
<smartboyhw> Encouraging continued contribution is the most difficult part of an open-source community.
<zequence> It's a big world and this is a very small niche - also, people don't usually work for fre
<zequence> free*
<smartboyhw> zequence: You should now be on 14.04.1 testing now, right?
<zequence> smartboyhw: Yeah
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: good to hear from you... as usual at this time, on my way out the door to work. 
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks: :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-24
<zequence> Anyone up for some ISO testing?
<zequence> I'm waiting for my new broadband to kick in, so I can start downloading
<zequence> (why, oh why does nothing ever work as planned)
<zequence> Cool. There's someone called finley-rob who is doing a lot of our tests for us
<zequence> a.k.a average_guy
<elfy> he's been everywhere zequence :)
<zequence> elfy: superb_guy
<elfy> :)
<OvenWerks> zequence: last ISO seems to be Jul 4... still waiting for the "-extra" libs to get sorted out.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-07-25
<zequence> OvenWerks: I'll see if I can fix that myself. Don't really know yet how uploading works.
<zequence> OvenWerks: There might be a problem with ubuntustudio-meta. Have you tried installing it?
<zequence> I won't have time today. Maybe I can take a look tomorrow. Else, on Monday
<madeinkobaia> Hi all :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-20
<zequence> OvenWerks: holstein: -controls is supposed to do that sort of stuff.
<zequence> I'm on vacation right now, with very poor internet, so I might not be logged in much, but I will be doing some work this week
<OvenWerks> zequence: Yup, controls will need to have more than one executable/script probably.
<holstein> so, we already have that, then?
<holstein> or, we need to implement it, and it should be implemented in controls?
<OvenWerks> holstein: we need to implement it and controls is the GUI at least.
<OvenWerks> holstein: What I have is specific to my system and requires manual setup. Controls should be able to show the AIs to the user and ask which ones to use for what.
<holstein> OvenWerks: right.. but, its good to hear its working for you
<holstein> i want/need that manual setting control.. thats why i disabled the auto start stuff in kxstudio
<OvenWerks> holstein: http://www.ovenwerks.net/software/audsysmode.html is what my gui looks like.
<OvenWerks> holstein: but the part that starts jack/a2jmidid is a script that runs if the GUI is there or not.
<OvenWerks> My start script has the beginnings of being configurable as all the jack commandline stuff uses variables so a configuration file could be read in first. The file could/should be managed by a GUI
<OvenWerks> holstein: did you know that jackdbus allows (through jack_control) to change jack settings without stopping starting jack?
<OvenWerks> What kinds of settings do you want to change? Latency can be changed on the go... but some applications do not deal with it correctly like rakarrack.
<holstein> OvenWerks: yup.. latency settings like that.. thats all
<OvenWerks> guitarix and ardour have no problem
<OvenWerks> jack_bufsize changes frames per period
<OvenWerks> pulse is ok with latency changes as well.
<OvenWerks> jack_bufsize 1024 ... jack_bufsize 64   etc.
<OvenWerks> holstein: I think jack_bufsize comes with jackd
<OvenWerks> Yes, it does
<OvenWerks> One of the problems with jackd and settings, is that jack will not set frames too big, but will set frames too small and then jack would crash.
<holstein> well, folks break things now
<OvenWerks> I think we can deal with that for some well known cards like HDA stuff
<holstein> what did i do? i downloaded ubuntustudio, and 64studio.. 64studio live, or ubuntustudio installed.. i would clickk something like ardour, it would throw an error i didnt understand about jack not running
<holstein> jack would be hung in the background, and audio broke
<holstein> i didnt understand what that meant, for literally months..
<OvenWerks> Jack running all the time fixes that
<OvenWerks> ... now that ardour doesn't need jack anymore
<OvenWerks> ardour without jack in linux still has issues on some systems though.
<holstein> i think jack running all the time is the lesser of the issues
<holstein> its just ridiculous, that, most menu items, when clicked, just kick an error, and break the audio ;)
<holstein> and, thats just addressing issues for new users, and adopters..
<holstein> not that we have to address those users.. that may not be a target of the distro.. which, is fine
<holstein> but, we are not targeting folks who want the latest and greatest..
<OvenWerks> ubuntu deals with new users more than any.
<holstein> it might be an angle to take.. even if it means stripping things out
<OvenWerks> One of the big problems we have is people going to LAU and getting all kinds of wierd info some of which was true some years ago, but is no longer.
<holstein> yup.. but, we cant necessarily address that, other than cleaning up our own wiki's
<holstein> which, are a mess, from the top down
<holstein> the ubuntu forums.. etc.. even the simple irc bots..
<holstein> its *very* challenging to keep all that up to date
<holstein> !xubuntu
<ubottu> Xubuntu is Ubuntu with !Xfce as the desktop environment. More info at http://xubuntu.org/ - To install the Xubuntu environment from Ubuntu: Â« sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop^ Â» - Join #xubuntu for support - See also: !xubuntu-channels
<holstein> !lubuntu
<ubottu> lubuntu is Ubuntu with LXDE instead of !GNOME as desktop environment, which makes it extremely lightweight. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu - /join #lubuntu for lubuntu support.
<holstein> ^ for example.. not that im complaining.. just that, how long has lxde been installed instead of unity?
<holstein> its easy to have, and collect mis-information.. or, simply information that is particular to specific hardware
<holstein> and, can i pay for ubuntu support? if so, can i, as a studio owner, or audio production professional pay for ubuntustuduio support?
<holstein> if not, is that a goal? if its not, is it a goal of ours? is it necessary? etc..
<holstein> maybe those folks still just go to lau.. which is fine, but, i agree, problematic
<OvenWerks> holstein: the whole RT framework is changing in Linux too.
<OvenWerks> It could be interesting :)
<holstein> OvenWerks: where are you following that? a mailing list?
<holstein> OvenWerks: maybe we should stop doing a distro, and do a news podcast ;)
<OvenWerks> holstein: we have to work with what we are each good at. Len doesn't do podcasts... or explain things well.
<holstein> i think, the end result, with linux pro-audio setup is *so* nice.. but, not easy for new folks, for sure
<holstein> even if its easy for some.. its not the common way other os's have to do it
<holstein> not that we have to address that.. but, i think we need a clear answer for it
<holstein> not "oh, its just magic, and you can RTFM.."
<OvenWerks> the term "Pro" has it's pitfalls
<holstein> OvenWerks: lol.. totally
<OvenWerks> It is used more for advertizing than anything else
<holstein> i just mean, a person at a studio, for example.. implementing that at a $100/hour studio
<holstein> you buy protools.. and apple.. and some interface.. guarantees support.. calling 1800-company and getting at least things working, if not answers..
<OvenWerks> An analog studio had "engineers" for a reason.
<holstein> or, you click menu items, something about jack.. something about realtime.. RTFM on forums.. etc..
<OvenWerks> The studios wanted one off solutions
<holstein> OvenWerks: i can get with what i think you are implying.. that it *is* technical..
<holstein> we could document that, and just have that as the answer.. "its complex"..
<OvenWerks> I agree that a GUI should make it easy, but I still think that the person running it should have some idea that audio comes out of one box and goes into the next... 
<holstein> we dont have to provide a typical answer to what the other OS's do..
<holstein> i just dont think it should say, or imply magic
<holstein> thats frustrating.. "oh, my friend said this was the best, and my interface isnt supported? this OS is crap.."
<holstein> ^ common story.. and nothing we can address.. but, something we could at least try and have a clear statement about
<OvenWerks> I think a lot of people do not understand that windows hides audio errors and latency and other issues
<holstein> and, make contact with vendors about
<holstein> if we had a "vendors ubuntustudio has contacted about linux support" and answers..
<OvenWerks> AT least the USB situation is getting better
<holstein> *way* better..
<OvenWerks> More of them are standard
<OvenWerks> net audio interfaces look to be easier to use in the long run too.
<holstein> i think, support in general, for hardware, is getting better..
<OvenWerks> the routing is all web interface.
<holstein> but, i think its also easy for us to forget, its not the responsibility of linux to provide that support
<OvenWerks> yes
<holstein> its quite surprising, when i listen to, for example, the linux action show, and hear an interview with the fedora team, and the question "what are you doing to provide support for macbooks" comes up..
<holstein> i mean, linux is not preventing apple from providing support.. and, *that* is where the pressure should be.. it would be simple.. "i wont buy your hardware until you support linux".. if literally everyone did that, we would have linux support
<OvenWerks> that is where Linux comes from though. Taking HW that was never ment for it and making it work anyway.
<holstein> not that we have that kind of market sway, but, that would fix it, and quite quickly..
<holstein> OvenWerks: i agree.. i just dont think its neccessarily constructive to spend (arguable waste) time on that..
<holstein> supporting the unsupported..
<holstein> not that we are personally doing that.. but, its something we could at least have documented. so, folks understand who to ask for motu support
<OvenWerks> But for add on cards, yes I think Linux should be expecting manufactures to provide support/make stanard IFs
<holstein> so, it doest seem like, linux/ubuntu isnt supporting "industry standards"
<holstein> i think, thats detracting.. "my $2000 interface doesnt work?".. and why?..
<holstein> if more of those folks try to decide *before* buying the 2k interface, and require linux support, we'll get it
<OvenWerks> for someone with $2k ... audio science has some nice stuff
<holstein> do we have, on the site, recommended/supported interfaces?
<OvenWerks> They work hard at linux support
<OvenWerks> holstein: is it up to date ?   ;)
<holstein> i say, if folks give linux support, we should link them back.. and support that effort..
<holstein> OvenWerks: hehe
<holstein> well, those are the kind of "pencil pushing" things i could do..
<holstein> i dont think i'll ever contribute code, but, when i get free from the house build here, we could get some easy-ish ideas like that, that others may appreciate
<holstein> i think the best asset ubuntustudio has is that name.. ubuntu..
<OvenWerks> I think that looking at some of the SW projects that are used profesionally like Rivendale and see what HW they use is good.
<holstein> companies would have heard of it, potentially.. 
<OvenWerks> holstein: one of the things I have seen that I think needs to be addressed is two audio cards, one in and one out.
<holstein> OvenWerks: can it be?
<OvenWerks> There is not a well thought out way of doing this, but it is quite common
<holstein> you think jack would do it upstream? that would be ideal.. make it so everyone would get it..
<OvenWerks> people get a USB mic or guitar if and want to use the internal for output
<OvenWerks> It can be done right now.
<holstein> i personally dont want it, but, folks who have one of those USB devices without monitoring *really* need it
<OvenWerks> The problem I think is people go about it backwards
<holstein> or, the mic, as you mention
<OvenWerks> Most of the time it is recomended to use the internal as the jack backend and then use zita a2j for the mic.
<OvenWerks> I think it should be the other way around. the input shold be the jack backend and the internal can use zita_j2a to ouput.
<OvenWerks> This would give best quality, I think.
<holstein> OvenWerks: i'll have to make some time, and have you help me setup some test senarios for that, so, i know whats going on there
<holstein> i have some USB hardware to use for testing..
<OvenWerks> What I would like to see in jack, is the ability to rename clients as system ports.
<holstein> OvenWerks: wont hurt to ask..
<holstein> i think that would help folks.. i see folks saying "i only see 2 inputs on my 4 channel card".. when, its really just 1L 1R 2L 2R, as a label
<OvenWerks> SO that zita outputs would be listed as system1 and 2.
<holstein> i think that would help folks label as they want.., right?
<holstein> though, i see what you mean..
<OvenWerks> There is supposed to be support for renaming ports, but not in our jack version yet :)
<OvenWerks> falk just added it to jack2 last week.
<holstein> would backporting address that for US?
<OvenWerks> jack1 had it a while ago.
<holstein> we should talk about doing only an LTS release, as well.. and backporting, vs, a release every 6 months..
<OvenWerks> the way the ubuntu repos work make back porting hard. Rolling release is starting to look good to me.
<holstein> OvenWerks: right? it always seemed challenging.. but, i thought it was just me
<OvenWerks> ubuntu is behind debian which is behind the world already
<holstein> wonder if we could be some test-bed for a rolling release model..
<OvenWerks> That is why kxstudio exists
<holstein> i *know* main ubuntu is talking about it..
<holstein> could be quickly quite a mess..
<holstein> anyways, im quite late.. i gotta run. cheers..
<OvenWerks> ubuntustudio has been caught with bad versions of audio apps in our LTS a few times
<OvenWerks> bye
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-22
<zequence> I'm using my ubuntu phone as a usb tethering device
<zequence> Had to enable that feature using android tools you get from a PPA. The phone is not strictly Ubuntu. There's some android at the base
<zequence> Well, around the base, or whatever
<zequence> I have something around 20kb/s bandwidth, but this connection seems to be pretty stable
<zequence> Took me a whole night to download 800MB
<zequence> Anyway, I've been working on -controls
<zequence> The first version of it, which was meant to be SRUd to trusty
<zequence> I'm almost done. Just need to package it and upload it.
<astraljava> Is the bandwidth due to ISP limitations, or do you think it's the tethering?
<zequence> Bad connection to my GSM service
<zequence> In part of the cabin I can get up to 200kb/s, but only for short periods
<astraljava> Ok. Is it possible to put the phone in a better location, and use wireless tethering?
<zequence> Don't think you can use wireless tethering on this device, not without reconfiguring network stuff manually
<zequence> So, I haven't bothered. The usb part was pretty easy to set up. Just connect the phone, unlock its screen, run one command - done
<astraljava> Oh... thank $deity I couldn't afford it after all. :D
<zequence> YOu can do some stuff with it from the PC its connected to, using a tool called adm
<astraljava> Right.
<OvenWerks> zequence: do enjoy your vacation :)
<OvenWerks> astraljava: I am not sure why one would do wireless teathering... to me it would make more sense to set the pc to wireless directly. I am not aware of any portable PCs that do not come with wireless anymore.
<astraljava> OvenWerks: In my case, I use it when the housing network proves too slow, and I need more bandwidth, for streaming video or some such purpose.
<astraljava> The 4G network in my phone is several magnitudes faster at best.
<OvenWerks> astraljava: ok, I think I missunderstood you then. I was thinking you ment to set the phone to wireless connect and teather that to the pc via usb.
<astraljava> Oh, no. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-23
<zequence> OvenWerks: I try to enjoy. The weather is not as warm as it usually is this time of year. We're the only ones swimming in the ocean, which is barely warm enough to stand :)
<zequence> Yes, there's no other form of internet connection here, so I'm using my phone 3G service. This phone only supports 2G and 3G.
<zequence> This is actually a laptop, so I should not say PC.
<astraljava> Well isn't it a personal computer, too? (as are Macs, btw.) It's a stupid term, in fact.
<OvenWerks> astraljava: One could say a PC is a 286...
<astraljava> OvenWerks: Ahh... but now you're talking about "IBM-compatible" PC. :D
<astraljava> The term "personal computer" dates back prior to the '80s, as when 80286 microprocessor was introduced in Feb. 1982.
<astraljava> Michael Dell estimates that there were more than 240M PCs sold in '05, and I doubt there were that many desktops, so I'm guessing he means laptops, as well. Still, if you stick to the actual definition:"a compact computer that uses a microprocessor and is designed for individual use, as by a person in an office or at home or school, for such applications as word processing, data management,
<astraljava> financial analysis, or computer games", a Mac is no different, either. :p
<OvenWerks> I guess so. But PC seemed to be an IBM thing.
<astraljava> Sure, just in the middle. :D
<OvenWerks> personal on it's own means one user, so maybe linux doesn't fit.
<astraljava> No, I don't think it means that. I think it means users, so that not everybody use the same user account.
<astraljava> *uses
<OvenWerks> So a "PC" used as a server?
<astraljava> Well, depends. A server as a separate box, or server applications?
<astraljava> You can have multiple user accounts in your personal computer, without connecting it to an external server.
<OvenWerks> The one I have under the stairs is a box
<OvenWerks> It may have several people connected at once either ssh or web based
<astraljava> Yes, in that case the machine you'd use to connect to that server would be the PC you're referring to.
<OvenWerks> There is no physical difference from my desktop... except it is an old 32 bit :)
<astraljava> ...as per that definition I quoted above. :)
<OvenWerks> One may do personal computing on a server box too. I guess what I am saying is that PC or personal computer is not a great term.
<OvenWerks> One could almost argue that an android or iOS box is closer than any desktop/laptop.
<OvenWerks> though interesting small servers have been made with android based boxen.
<astraljava> Yes, I believe we can all agree that the definition is not to be taken literally. :D
<astraljava> It's just fun to nitpick occasionally on things. :)
<OvenWerks> I remember in some docs I once read that they refered to something that didn't make sense as being there for "hysterical" reasons.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-07-24
<c0rn1> o7
<c0rn1> I got a question: Does Ubuntustudio run on an IBM X40 notebook? Does anyone have experience with that type of setup?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-25
<eagles0513875|2> hey all ) 
<sakrecoer> hi! :)
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2: have you had some time to familiarize yourself to the wiki pages i sent you?
<eagles0513875|2> not yet mate :( 
<eagles0513875|2> ill be back in a moment
<eagles0513875|2> i need to relocate my laptop
<eagles0513875|2> be back in a few moment
<eagles0513875|2> heyo
<eagles0513875|2> im back sac
<eagles0513875|2> wow i cant type 
<eagles0513875|2> im back sakrecoer
<sakrecoer> wb eagles0513875|2 
<eagles0513875|2> ty kind sir
<eagles0513875|2> sorry bit nuts around the office today 
<eagles0513875|2> IT admin that does building maintenance etc
<sakrecoer> ok :) 
<eagles0513875|2> im looking forward to helping out in what ever way I can 
<eagles0513875|2> not sure in what capacity yet
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2: \o/ 
<eagles0513875|2> im interested in packaging
<eagles0513875|2> but have no idea how
<sakrecoer> i'm not good at that either, but i think atm that is the skill set we need the most 
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuStudioPackageMaintenance
<eagles0513875|2> will need to go looking through the wiki
<eagles0513875|2> lmms is what im involved with as well to an extent
<eagles0513875|2> lots of great leaps and bounds going on there
<sakrecoer> nice :)
<eagles0513875|2> im wondering is there a ppa for US that will contain bleeding edge media packages
<eagles0513875|2> like latest master branch of lmms for example
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2: we have the backport testing ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/backport-testing
<eagles0513875|2> ok but how often are packages update there for testing
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2: we have just begun with backporting... we rely on what ubuntu imports from debian, so many times we don't have bleeding edge. but you might want to talk to OvenWerks zequence rosco2 or krytarik about it, since they know much more than me about the package realm
<eagles0513875|2> ok 
<eagles0513875|2> dunno why the name OvenWerks sounds familiar lol
<sakrecoer> maybe because he is super nice and skilled and active here? :) he is also very active in ardour i believe 
<sakrecoer> eagles0513875|2 ^
<sakrecoer> anyways, i have to go AFK for a while, very nice to chat with you eagles0513875|2 looking forward to have you arround! :)
<sakrecoer> well, i mean, its nice to have you arround.. :)
<sakrecoer> read y'all later! o/
<eagles0513875|2> later sakrecoer :) 
<eagles0513875|2> hey OvenWerks zequence 
<eagles0513875|2> how are you guys got some questions about the backports testing repo
<cfhowlett> !ping
<ubottu> pong!
<zequence> eagles0513875|2: The backports testing repo is intended for testing backports when having made a backport request
<zequence> The backport may be accepted only after it has been tested on the release it is to be backported to
<zequence> Usually it is the backporter that does the testing, but anyone can help out with this. And, a PPA is nice to have when several people want to test the same package
<zequence> Not sure if that answers your question, which I realize I haven't yet read :)
<eagles0513875|2> zequence: but what if you want to test next releases of lets say ardour for example or lmml
<eagles0513875|2> lmms
<eagles0513875|2> where the code base is changing on a continuous basis
<zequence> eagles0513875|2: If you want to test the next release, you install the development release of Ubuntu Studio
<eagles0513875|2> no no not of US but of a particular piece of software
<zequence> Well, there's only one place you can find those for Ubuntu Studio, and that is in the official Ubuntu repos
<zequence> ..which you will have access to once you install a dev release
<zequence> The two that you mention, as well as most of our packages are actually imported directly from Debian
<zequence> Debian Unstable
<zequence> The imports continue until a specific date during the development period, which is tagged "Debian Import Freeze"
<zequence> After that, Beta testing  commences
<zequence> And, then the release. And, then it all starts over again.
<zequence> So, that's how it works, basically.
<zequence> If you want to try out the latest version from the upstream developer for an application, such as ardour, or LMMS, you need to get the source and compile it yourself
<zequence> Or, find someone who does it for you and publishes those packages.
<zequence> The packaging in Debian Unstable is fairly up to date. It all depends on the packager, really.
<zequence> If you would like to learn about packaging those mentioned applications, Ubuntu Studio is not the right place to do that. We only package our own original source
<zequence> The people who does most of the packaging are found in debian-multimedia, the team of packagers that package multimedia applications and libraries
<zequence> who do*
<zequence> The only kind of packaging we do here is bug fixing for a specific Ubuntu (Studio) release.
<zequence> ..and that does not happen often (and we are not alone in doing that anyway)
<zequence> Well, except for our own original source, as mentioned
<zequence> eagles0513875|2: Check it out https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia
<zequence> Seems I may be having some weird DNS problems. Not sure when this is sent to the server.
<zequence> I will be gone for a moment.
<eagles0513875|2> zequence: ok will speak later as I am busy at work
<eagles0513875_> hey all im back
<eagles0513875_> zequence: i am more then willing to help package things
<zequence> eagles0513875_: To learn, it's best to do that with the multimedia team, as they have more of that.
<zequence> With us, it's a bit slower. Requires more time, and getting upload rights will be slower.
<zequence> Only a few packages that need a few tiny changed each cycle
<eagles0513875_> ok
<eagles0513875_> what happens though if a version of lets say lmms is very old and newer releases have come out 
<eagles0513875_> and not been updated in debian
<zequence> eagles0513875_: Think you are referring to stable Debian releases
<zequence> Debian Unstable is not a release per se. It is the archive where the most recent packages end up
<zequence> That is what the dev versiof on Ubuntu (Studio - and all other official flavors) sync to.
<DalekSec> I poked zequence in #xubuntu-devel, but you may want to look at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/275014126/xfce4-session_4.12.1-3ubuntu1_4.12.1-3ubuntu2.diff.gz and the last two commits https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: i couldn't find your pokes in #x-dev, can you help me understand it better?
<DalekSec> The first is a debdiff of xfce4-session, second is bzr commit log? :P
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: yeah, that is about how much i can see. what are "you" supposed to see in it?
<sakrecoer> ..or "look at"..
<DalekSec> Switching from upstart user sessions to systemd user sessions.
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: thanks.. and also, why can't i see your ping in #x-dev? it was less than an hour ago..
<DalekSec> /lastlog zeq   ?
<sakrecoer> oh... you are untit193 :D
<sakrecoer> sorry, i didn't know...
<DalekSec> Eh, thought everyone knew.  OK.
<sakrecoer> well... now, one more r... erm human does :)
<sakrecoer> anyways, upstart=>systemd... can you please hint me, DalekSec ? what kindof consequences for ubuntustudio?
<DalekSec> Well, us-settings would have to be changed to follow suit with x-d-s.
<sakrecoer> thank you DalekSec :)
<DalekSec> Sure.  krytarik might be able to explain some more too. :P
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: i didn't get what you were explaining
<eagles0513875|2> heyo
<eagles0513875|2> hey sakrecoer
<eagles0513875|2> and anyone else that is alive in here
<eagles0513875|2> omg DalekSec :D wassup m8
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-26
<DalekSec> sakrecoer: Pitti is getting to you guys, just hadn't made it there yet.
<sakrecoer> thank you DalekSec :) 
<DalekSec> Though, isn't US supposed to work with any DE?  Heh.
<sakrecoer> DalekSec: its been a hot topic for a while #desktopagnostic :) but it appears we aren't quite there yet.
<neo1748> hi
<zequence> sakrecoer: krytarik: I'm sure you guys can do the syncing with xubuntu default settings. If it's not done before FF I will try to remember to do it.
<zequence> sakrecoer: krytarik: Also, let me know if you need help with the seed thing.
<sakrecoer> thanks zequence :) good to know! but i'll di my best so you can relax instead having to do it ;)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-29
<zequence> sakrecoer: I see you have made a few changes to the seeds. Let me know when you're done, and I'll update the mate and upload.
<zequence> meta*
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-07-31
<eagles0513875_> hey all 
<eagles0513875_> any devs around 
<eagles0513875_> hey cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> eagles0513875_, yep
<eagles0513875_> cfhowlett: can you kindly confirm something for me in regards to a particular package as i dont have an ubuntu studio setup installed yet
<cfhowlett> I'll try. 
<eagles0513875_> thanks
<eagles0513875_> unless there is a web page which lists all packages and one can see a particular package and what release its in 
<cfhowlett> packages.ubuntu.com
<eagles0513875_> excellent thanks ill check there
<eagles0513875_> thanks cfhowlett that helped tremendously 
<cfhowlett> happy2help!
<sakrecoer> hi guys!
<sakrecoer> i'm trying to find a good place to keep the feature-tour.txt file on luanchpad, but i don't want to mess up the website repos...
<sakrecoer> feeling a bit rusty on the branch thing... i see the new theme is in git... 
<sakrecoer> and the old (? one of them) is in bzr, but seem to have last modification date linked to the git... https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-website
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-25
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: If you're around and have some time, I have a new one to check out: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/cadence-audio/+git/cadence-audio. This wouldn't be for Debian per se, but would be great in Universe.
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: ok, tomorrow I'll have a look (I was on my way to bed)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-26
<cyphermox> Eickmeyer: I promise I'm not forgetting you, just crazy busy with stuff. fortunately, I'll be alone at home tomorrow and Saturday, so I'll finish reviewing your stuff then
<cyphermox> sorry about the delays
<cyphermox> although, to clarifiy one thing you said (that I may have misunderstood), I'm not uploading anything to Debian, only uploading to Ubuntu
<cyphermox> I can't upload anything to Debian
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: ENOPERMISSION?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-27
<cyphermox> tsimonq2: I'm not a debian developer
<tsimonq2> cyphermox: Ah, got it.
<Eickmeyer> cyphermox: I haven't been ignoring you either. Likewise, been super busy. I've been working a lot more hours than usual lately for operational need.
<Eickmeyer> And I'm part-time, which is why this is unusual.
<cyphermox> np
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-28
<Eickmeyer> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jul 28 19:00:02 2018 UTC.  The chair is Eickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Eickmeyer> #chair krytarik eylul OvenWerks captain-tux
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux eylul krytarik
<Eickmeyer> Hey everyone! ... if you're here...
<eylul> hi
<captain-tux> Hello
<Eickmeyer> That's two...
<eylul> *is testing out a png optimizer while talking.
<Eickmeyer> Nice.
<Eickmeyer> Still not seeing OvenWerks. :(
<Eickmeyer> I might have to take over pushing -controls to Cosmic unless that's done.
<OvenWerks> im here
<Eickmeyer> YAY!!!
<Eickmeyer> Okay, good. Saw krytarik on his way in earlier...
<OvenWerks> please publish -controls.
<Eickmeyer> Okay. I'll see what I can do about getting Cyphermox on that, which covers our first item
<OvenWerks> push, upload, release or whtever.
<Eickmeyer> #topic Progress Reports
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic ubuntustudio-controls to Cosmic
<Eickmeyer> Sounds like it's ready
<Eickmeyer> #Done Ubuntu Studio Controls ready for Publication
<OvenWerks> ready? well it needs people to break it :)
<Eickmeyer> #done Ubuntu Studio Controls ready for Publication
<Eickmeyer> At least to Cosmic...
<Eickmeyer> That way it gets spread to a lot of people. I did notice a bug when using it yesterday in that for some reason it started multiple PulseAudio processes, but I'm not sure if I can duplicate it.
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow...
<OvenWerks> that sounds like a PA bug... or hang.
<Eickmeyer> Possibly.
<OvenWerks> -controls does not ever start PA
<Eickmeyer> We'll have to talk to cyphermox or tsimonq2 about getting -controls uploaded to Universe. 
<OvenWerks> Thank you
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps even shoot Ross an email.
<Eickmeyer> Okay, moving along...
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic ubuntustudio-plasma
<Eickmeyer> Still needing this to get seeded. Any progress on your MPs OvenWerks?
<OvenWerks> MPs?
<OvenWerks> oh merge something.
<Eickmeyer> Merge Proposals to the release team.
<OvenWerks> I have not started.
<Eickmeyer> Okay. No worries. As eylul and I were discussing last week, getting -controls to where it is is a big step to begin with.
 * OvenWerks has been sitting beside the river or ocean for the last few weeks
 * Eickmeyer is green with envy of OvenWerks since he's been working like an ox.
<Eickmeyer> Moo...
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow...
<Eickmeyer> So, are you back then, OvenWerks?
<OvenWerks> for a bit... but busy for the next few weeks my Yf has off.
<Eickmeyer> Understandable.
<Eickmeyer> Moving on...
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Plymouth Theme
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Were you working on this or the handbook first?
<eylul> handbook first. but today I have been working on this issue of optimizing the wallpaper
<eylul> I'll do what I can, but it looks like not much of a file size reduction is happening. 
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Wallpaper Optimization
<Eickmeyer> So, how big are we looking at?
<Eickmeyer> Basically, my question is if it will dramatically affect the iso size.
<eylul> 7mb for the main 5mb for the extra screen
<eylul> files are a bit larger as png than they are as jpg
<Eickmeyer> That's not horrible by any means. I don't think that's going to break the bank.
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Thoughts on this?
<OvenWerks> not really.
<captain-tux> Is that uncompressed?
<eylul> these are with trying to compress them :D
<eylul> QHD is quite a bit of pixels ;)
<OvenWerks> either png or jpg are compressed by their nature
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: eylul can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's png with zip or lzw compression?
<eylul> I don't think that's what png does?
<Eickmeyer> I'm thinking tif. d'oh!
<eylul> yep :)))
<Eickmeyer> png has its own compression alg.
<captain-tux> Oh yeah, sorry. I meant lossless, I suppose.. then that's not bad.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I have no problem with the results you're getting, eylul.
<eylul> yeah.. what I will do is try to go via jpg route to see if that goes better (tiff -> jpg -> optimized jpg -> png
<eylul> if not so be it
<eylul> :)
<eylul> alright
<eylul> anyway it doesn't matter. tldr. they will be in the devel list tonight once for all. handbook still in progress
<Eickmeyer> Okay, then, to minimize your workload, I suggest going with what you've got. No need to stress too much on this.
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Audio Handbook epub & PDF
<Eickmeyer> eylul: How far out for this?
<eylul> continuing to work on, it not much done. but will finish it this week
<eylul> I'd say weekend, but I know myself. to give margin
<Eickmeyer> Cool. Shoot an email to the ML when you're done. I know a few news outlets that would love to get their hands on it. :)
<Eickmeyer> #info Handbook to be epub & PDF within the week
<Eickmeyer> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<eylul> yeah, had job related situation that was taking too much time is why nothing got done. this week both are priority.
<Eickmeyer> #action Handbook to be epub & PDF within the week
<meetingology> ACTION: Handbook to be epub & PDF within the week
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Totally get that. I'm lucky I got anything done mysel!
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Website Theme
<Eickmeyer> So, I've reached the impasse that you all did two years ago. Thinking of starting over using the structure Canonical has provided. Thoughts?
<Eickmeyer> Meaning, their non-standard way of doing Wordpress.
<eylul> I have no objections
<Eickmeyer> I have no idea what tsimonq2 is doing with lubuntu.me, but maybe he could throw us some ideas. BTW, lubuntu.me is the official site now, lubuntu.net is not to be used.
<eylul> yikes ok
<Eickmeyer> Lubuntu.net is owned by one of the former project leaders who is no longer part of the development. Still runs the site, but it's unofficial at best.
<Eickmeyer> So, I'd like to take a vote on this.
<Eickmeyer> #vote Start over with theme for website using Canonical's wordpress structure
<meetingology> Please vote on: Start over with theme for website using Canonical's wordpress structure
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ from captain-tux XD
<eylul> :)
<captain-tux> I don't know enough about it ... :P
<Eickmeyer> Oh, well, that's a long story.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ?
<Eickmeyer> re: vote
<captain-tux> Got a link maybe?
<Eickmeyer> eylul has something for what we _wanted_ to do, but doesn't look like it's happening.
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Start over with theme for website using Canonical's wordpress structure
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<eylul> actually what we want to do MIGHT be possible. 
<captain-tux> Oh no, I understand that, but I meant that Canonical thing. ;)
 * Eickmeyer 's head a splode
<eylul> haha
<Eickmeyer> Canonical hosts our website. The way they implement Wordpress for our site is non-standard.
<Eickmeyer> So, when it comes to theming, it's a mega bugaboo.
<captain-tux> They have a custom template for every derivate?
<Eickmeyer> Not exactly. From what I understand, it's a directory structure issue.
<captain-tux> Or, one for all?
<eylul> yeah it is a directory structure thing
<captain-tux> Oh, okay.
<eylul> honest we should be able to adjust what we have
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Okay, then, , ... gosh, I'd hate to push more work on you. :(
<eylul> the primary bottleneck in many of these things is my inability to figure out how launchpad's git system works
<eylul> if we can sort that out... I'll probably be a lot more helpful in most of these stuff
<Eickmeyer> Oh, okay. So, I understand how it works, and it's pretty easy tbh.
<eylul> wallpapers -> book -> git -> plymouth -> website (?)
<Eickmeyer> Sure!
<Eickmeyer> You have your ssh key on LP, right?
<eylul> yeah
<Eickmeyer> Okay, I'll shoot you some instructions on how to set-up git to work with LP and an address to push to.
<eylul> that would help a lot thanks
<Eickmeyer> No prob.
<Eickmeyer> Can't say it'll happen today, though.
<Eickmeyer> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<Eickmeyer> #action Eickmeyer to send eylul git instructions for furthering the website
<meetingology> ACTION: Eickmeyer to send eylul git instructions for furthering the website
<Eickmeyer> Okay, on to the next...
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Packaging for Carla & Cadence
<Eickmeyer> So, I've stalled on Carla since I need to figure out a way to get the wine bridges working before I submit it.
<Eickmeyer> That said, I've submitted Cadence to cyphermox for review. If/when it's good, we can replace Patchage with Catia.
<Eickmeyer> So, that's what I've got done. Debian packaging is more intricate than I thought it would be! lol
<eylul> \o/
<Eickmeyer> #done Submitted Cadence for review
<Eickmeyer> Okay.... next...
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Wallpaper Contest
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Did you ever learn what was done the last time around?
<eylul> learning?
<eylul> cfhowlett was the person who ran the contest
<Eickmeyer> Okay... haven't seen much of that person.
<eylul> they used to be active. but I haven't seen them in last year or so. Ovenwerks?
<OvenWerks> no idea
<OvenWerks> everyone is a nick on a screen  ...
<Eickmeyer> Might just have to make up something new. Like, maybe an imgur album or something?
<Eickmeyer> People submit their stuff, gets linked from the wiki, and then we vote on what we like?
<Eickmeyer> I'd honestly like to get rolling on this soon since other flavors have already started their respective contests.
<eylul> I seem to remember something very vague like flickr was used.
<eylul> but yes. 
<Eickmeyer> Okay, I'll brainstorm ideas for this.
<Eickmeyer> #action Eickmeyer to work on wallpaper contest
<meetingology> ACTION: Eickmeyer to work on wallpaper contest
<Eickmeyer> I'll shoot an email to the ML when I get it live.
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> Okay.... on to the new stuff.
<Eickmeyer> #topic New Items
<Eickmeyer> #subtopic Password Sharing
<Eickmeyer> So, eylul raised a point last week off-the-record about needing some sort of shared password management.
<Eickmeyer> So things like administration of the G+ site among other things don't get lost with changes in leadership.
<eylul> not all social media, or other solutions have a teamwork setup
<Eickmeyer> Right.
<eylul> we already have things like the stage account web server information and mastodon account that has a single password that needs to be passed around.. which we can do securely.. but its... awkward
<eylul> :)
 * OvenWerks has to go
<Eickmeyer> So, I've been brainstorming this, but I know a guy who would know, and I meant to ask him this past week but it got away from me.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Thanks! See ya! o/
<OvenWerks> I would be ok with whatever you decide probably
<eylul> bye OvenWerks
<Eickmeyer> #unchair OvenWerks
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer captain-tux eylul krytarik
<Eickmeyer> Well, we need to keep investigating. Unfortunately, this is a touch point. Something peer-to-peer would be ideal, but if we have to centrallize oh well. 
<eylul> one thing i was thinking is..
<eylul> if it is not possible to do it peer to peer
<eylul> and if we don't have any ubuntu team based tool (which I am not sure)
<eylul> is there a self-hosted open sourced solution with a company behind it? 
<Eickmeyer> If you're thinking encrypted file in a git repo... that's what just crossed my mind, but it'd need a master password.
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> one variation of this I thought was...
<eylul> could next-cloud be a partial solution?
<eylul> nextcloud*
<Eickmeyer> Perhaps. And, probably.
<eylul> and if yes if they do have some sort of support program where we can get a tiny self-hosting from them
 * Eickmeyer 's head just sploded again
<Eickmeyer> Well, there's always a digital ocean droplet...
<Eickmeyer> Except that's $5/mo minimum
<captain-tux> As long as it's encrypted, what's the difference, really?
<eylul> I can just set up something in my shared hosting. but then it is dependent on one person still being around
<Eickmeyer> I really want to know what Noah Chelliah knows about this.
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Exactly.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: We've been trying for two years with no success to get Lubuntu.me under Canonical infra...
<tsimonq2> Two years.
<eylul> captain-tux I think we want to avoid person owned structures for long term solutions. Like I currently host the stage, but even that is not ideal
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Yeah, that's not good.
<eylul> o.O
<tsimonq2> Altispeed hosts Lubuntu's stuff.
<tsimonq2> (For now.)
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: That's because Noah is awesome.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: And it's also because I work for him. ;)
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Yep! :)
<Eickmeyer> I suppose if we have to we could go that route with the site.
<Eickmeyer> Just, the Canonical backend and promise to host sites for flavors isn't living up to its promise, from what I'm seeing.
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Talk to Noah, but as long as the Altispeed name/logo goes somewhere, we might be able to host.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: I might just give him a call. But, I wouldn't want to throw the switch on that without the rest of the team here's vote.
<tsimonq2> ACK
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Telegram is better for him.
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: True, true. That's how I usually talk to him anymore.
<eylul> well at least we know it is not just a problem ubuntustudio faces
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<eylul> can we talk to canonical about this?
<eylul> like seriously?
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: But ultimately it's up to Noah, I want to make that very clear.
<eylul> while in parallel looking for an alternative solution
<Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: That was implied, but yes, totally.
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Yeah.
<Eickmeyer> That's two flavors that are dealing with Canonical in a negative fashion with website hosting.
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> So, I've got a few things to... Ask Noah. XD
<Eickmeyer> (that's the name of his radio show & podcast)
<eylul> I'll try to reach out to wxl to see if they can help on their end
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Excellent idea. I see him in -flavors often, so if you want to do it there (that way it remains off-the-record) then that might help.
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> that might also bring out if there is a known solution
<eylul> from another flavor
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<eylul> I might actually do the same for the password related issue while at it
<eylul> or at least help into how to communicate with canonical about this directly
<Eickmeyer> #action Eickmeyer to contact Noah Chelliah regarding potential hosting for potential new website and password sharing solutions.
<meetingology> ACTION: Eickmeyer to contact Noah Chelliah regarding potential hosting for potential new website and password sharing solutions.
<Eickmeyer> #action eylul to contact wxl about how to communicate to Canonical about web hosting issues, and to check on password sharing solutions that may already exist.
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul to contact wxl about how to communicate to Canonical about web hosting issues, and to check on password sharing solutions that may already exist.
<Eickmeyer> So, we'll just roll with that for now.
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> Here comes 2000 UTC... do we have any other items for the meeting?
<Eickmeyer> Going once...
<eylul> not from me
<eylul> ;)
<Eickmeyer> Any motion to end meeting?
 * Eickmeyer motions
<eylul> motions (I think)
<Eickmeyer> lol
<Eickmeyer> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jul 28 20:01:24 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-07-28-19.00.moin.txt
<Eickmeyer> Not bad!
 * captain-tux applauds
<eylul> I wanted to type: "just end the meeting!!!"
<eylul> ;)
<Eickmeyer> LOL!!!!
<Eickmeyer> That's my way of stalling to give people a chance. ;)
<eylul> ...and the final file sizes are 6.6MiB for main wallpaper and 4.8MiB for extra one
<eylul> I give up
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Again, that doesn't break the bank. :)
<eylul> I turn the thing to jpg it goes down to 2mb, I turn it back to png, it bloats right back. XD
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. lossless compression isn't efficient, but it's lossless.
<eylul> yeah no I am just uploading them and emailing.
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<Eickmeyer> I'll get those meeting notes out soon.
<eylul> *nods*
<eylul> will you be around ubuntu-flavors?
<Eickmeyer> I'm always lurking there, so if you ping me, I'll likely see it.
<eylul> *nods* ok
<captain-tux> eylul, I'll try to have a look at Mastodon next week, maybe I can support you on that. I had a quick read through the handbook this week as well.
<eylul> I am going to ask people to not do any changes to it, until tomorrow
<eylul> the handbook
<Eickmeyer> That's cool with me. I haven't even started writing my live audio section yet.
<eylul> :) 
<Eickmeyer> BTW...
 * Eickmeyer joined Mastodon
<eylul> captain-tux: would love the help
<eylul> but yeah get your account, can send you a mastodon.art invite to create account on that node if you want?
<eylul> or you can choose another node (quite a many of them) :) 
<eylul> but yeah Eickmeyer: I noticed
<eylul> I was going to ask you if that was you
<captain-tux> I don't even know what that means.. :|
<eylul> email me with your email address
<eylul> I'll send you an invite. really it is the easiest way to get into it ;)
<eylul> you can always move later :)
<captain-tux> Okay, sure.
<eylul> and btw captain-tux: join ubuntu-flavors? (ovenwerks too !) if you guys want? :)
<captain-tux> That's on IRC?
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> its on freenode :)
<captain-tux> Sounds like a good idea.
<eylul> :)
<OvenWerks> umm, use a launchpad file that belongs to ubuntustudio-core that is private?
<OvenWerks> I'm not sure if that is really private to -core though
<eylul> OverWerks: if it is private, it would be a very good solution...
<OvenWerks> I will drop a nonsense file in there and you can see if you can see it...  :)
<OvenWerks> wow, it made me relogin...
<OvenWerks> eylul: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-core/+junk/ubuntustudio-core
<eylul> Ovenwerks: I cannot see if I am not logged in.
<eylul> this looks like a solution
<OvenWerks> The only thin g I am not sure of is: "Only shared with users permitted to see private user information."
<OvenWerks> what does that mean?
<eylul>  ^ Eickmeyer
<eylul> that reads to me like we can give access to people who are not owner
<eylul> but they need to be explicitly stated, but yes I am really not sure
<eylul> can we set this up over git?
<OvenWerks> with subscribe below maybe.
<OvenWerks> I can try to upload it as git.
<eylul> subscribe doesn't work
<eylul> so no, I think somehow they need to be added as owner *really has no idea*
<OvenWerks> it looks like subscribe means: send email on changes
<OvenWerks> eylul: will get two emials :)
<OvenWerks> *emails
<eylul> heh
<eylul> one thing I am interested
<eylul> if you make changes to the file in there
<eylul> does the notification email includes information on what the changes are
<eylul> at all
<OvenWerks> I can make changes and push I think.
<eylul> formatting of this epub/pdf is really REALLY not fun.
<eylul> there is no way to get this to be one source file
<eylul> solution that works for pdf, doesn't work for epub (or for wiki)
<eylul> wiki doesn't work for anything
<eylul> epub works imperfectly for pdf
<eylul> >.<
<OvenWerks> did you get two emails?
<OvenWerks> (or any?)
 * OvenWerks did not
<eylul> no
<OvenWerks> I think you would get them if a merge was requested
<eylul> possibly?
<eylul> yeah I am really not sure
<eylul> and I am probably a not the right person to check this
<OvenWerks> but as only members can pull the file... there should be no merges only commits and pusshes
<eylul> alright
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-07-29
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks, eylul: Just caught up. In my company, we have all of the passwords on a Google Drive account with a password we all share, but that's less than ideal for our situation. So, whatever solution you found using LP, you might have to explain it to me.
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get the meeting notes out until tomorrow since my brain doesn't seem to want to really function properly, and I have to get up early tomorrow anyways, so it's probably for the best that I'm tired..
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-core/+junk/ubuntustudio-core
<OvenWerks> just a test. but anyone who is a part of ubuntustudio-core should be able to read it.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I see that. Looks like it has to be done in bzr?
<OvenWerks> I don't know I didn't even try git yet :)
<Eickmeyer> Oh, haha!
<OvenWerks> for just a few plain files... idon't see what difference it makes really. 
<Eickmeyer> I don't either. I'm okay using bzr, git, mercurial, or whatever. Actually, no. No mercurial. I'm not a masochist. XD
<Eickmeyer> Either way, that seems to be a decent solution so long as nobody outside of core can see it.
<OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-core/+git/ubuntustudio-core
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: git works too
<Eickmeyer> \o/
<Eickmeyer> Only thing I can see there is that bzr and git don't mix, so we should settle on one or the other, and my vote would be for git since it seems to be, for lack of a better term, "the way of the future."
<OvenWerks> I don't know if you want to make it a "project" or not
<Eickmeyer> Nah, doesn't need to be a project.
<OvenWerks> not may be more secure...
<Eickmeyer> Exactly.
<OvenWerks> bzr has vanished
<OvenWerks> err, the bzr branch above has vanished :P
<Eickmeyer> Oh! Well, then that solves that!
 * Eickmeyer needs to send eylul instructions on git on LP
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't know if we should have all in one file or one file for each... "whatever"
<Eickmeyer> I don't see any reason not to have it all in one file. Git is smart enough to figure out differences.
<OvenWerks> I was thinking about being able to send one file to someone who only needs one.
<OvenWerks> That is not having to change all the info if someone goes away who can't be trusted.
<Eickmeyer> Ohhh... right.
<Eickmeyer> Multiple files wouldn't be that much work either.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, the repo is there do whatever :)
 * OvenWerks figures he has done his part :)
<Eickmeyer> Thanks! That was something eylul was wondering last week, and it's nice to see the solution was under our noses.
<Eickmeyer> Now we just need to figure out the dang web hosting issue.
<eylul> Eickmeyer:  OvenWerks i just said git over bzr for long term planning as we are transitioning to git overall it seems, and it is one less tool to keep track of/learn. In short term I don't care either. :) 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-22
<Eickmeyer> Right, but you'll NEVER find a DAW compatible with another DAW.
<Eickmeyer> Except maybe Mixbus and Ardour, but that's only because Mixbus is derived from Ardour.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-23
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: dist-upgrade just put in a new menu file... perhaps icons as well (not sure). Anyway, assuming 1804 iso, I do have backports enabled as well.
<Eickmeyer> Yep, fixes the zynaddsubfx bug.
<Eickmeyer> dist-upgrade == full-upgrade
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: anyway, whisker looks ok, but applications menu does not. and also right click on the backdrop does not look right
<Eickmeyer> Right click on the backdrop should've been unaffected. Sounds like a different bug.
<OvenWerks> The icon for ubuntu studio info is way too big
<Eickmeyer> *shouldnt've
<Eickmeyer> Strange, it should conform.
<Eickmeyer> I'll take a look, but I didn't notice that.
<Eickmeyer> I could revert the backport, if necessary.
<OvenWerks> it may be that the icon in the directory file points at the wrong one
<Eickmeyer> Very possible.
<Eickmeyer> Might be that there aren't enough sizes available.
<OvenWerks> Right, maybe whisker uses a slightly different size? or resizes on the fly to fit
<Eickmeyer> I'll make more sizes and add them. Should probably be a size for every size available in HiColor
<OvenWerks> It is interesting to me that none of the other icons in the rest of the menu have this problem... maybe we fixed the rest
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'll work on that in a few.
<OvenWerks> no rush, we install whisker anyway and I am probably the only person who uses the app menu or thinks to right click on backdrop
<OvenWerks> I do not know if the app menu is even still maintained...
<OvenWerks> Possibly for 2004 I will switch to kde anyway (which also gives an appmenu choice)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: The difference there is that Plasma's menus scale nicely. iirc they use the svg icons.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: And, yes, the old appmenu doesn't use svg, and we only provide 16x16,, 32x32, 48x48, and scalable sizes of the problematic icon, so that's the problem. This will definitely take a while.
<Eickmeyer> Probably only going to go up to 64x64. Bigger than that is rediculous.
<Eickmeyer> *ridiculous
<OvenWerks> Ya
<OvenWerks> It may be enough to change ubuntustudio-logo to ubuntustudio-logo-menu
<OvenWerks> but I don't know where each is :)
<Eickmeyer> ubuntustudio-logo-menu is in -default-settings, iirc.
<Eickmeyer> And, iirc, it has size limitations as well.
<OvenWerks> Sorry, I meant where in the disk tree, one may be in "pixmaps" for example
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, one is in pixmaps.
<Eickmeyer> Honestly, This is going pretty smoothly so far. I've got a workflow going.
<Eickmeyer> Was only the info category icon the issue?
<OvenWerks> also website and contribute
<OvenWerks> probably the same icon.
<Eickmeyer> Confirmed, those are the same icon.
<OvenWerks> I thought we had a Hexter icon, seems not.
<Eickmeyer> I see an icon for it. I think the Hexter people finally made an icon. I see it in 19.10. I remember something in the Debian Multimedia mailing list about this.
<OvenWerks> I'm in 1804 so that could be
<Eickmeyer> Ok, about to trigger a new build for backports. Also going to push that to eoan.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: New -menu just dropped in Backports.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-24
<teward> *throws ungodly amounts of salt at Eickmeyer and Eickmeyer[m]*
 * Eickmeyer peppers teward and adds him to the ubuntustudio-dev team officially
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We now have an official MOTU/Core Dev on the team.
 * teward waves
<veremitz> \o/ gratz!
<teward> happy to help where I can, already been helping a bit with uploads and sponsoring, and I expect you'll need more sponsoring too so :)
<teward> including but not limited to the existing packageset (esp. NEW stuff)
<teward> but thanks for including me in the team :)
<Eickmeyer> Glad to have you. We've needed someone with your particular privileges and skill set for a very long time now, teward. :)
<teward> and now you've got it :)
<teward> just don't expect me to let up when things need fixed up before uploading :p
<teward> i'm evil in that regard, as you know
<Eickmeyer> At least you explain things.
<teward> or try to
<teward> there will be cases where I don't because E:NotEnoughCoffee
<teward> but we just bother genii in the Lubuntu rooms or #ubuntu-offtopic to provide me more coffee ;)
<Eickmeyer> I've been known to do that from time to time.
 * OvenWerks sends coffee
<OvenWerks> too late for me tonight
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<Eickmeyer> He's already asleep, likely. It's nearly 1am his time.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah i was asleep ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> awake now though :0
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-25
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Are all of our packages up to date in the ISO?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Should be. Waiting on raysession, but other than that, everything is good to go.
<OvenWerks> "good to go" means it should already be in the ISO?
 * OvenWerks is wondering if it is worth while to test the ISO
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: IIRC, the ISOs pull in whatever version of the packages is available in Eoan when creating it, so if it's in the ISO seed and pulled in as a dep, it should have the 'latest version available' in the ISO
<studiobot> <teward001> if not the last ISO run, then the next daily one
<studiobot> <teward001> so if you test a daily ISO now and it doesn't have the versions, it may be in the next daily ISO when it's made/built
<studiobot> <teward001> raysession needs reviewed in NEW first by an AA and accepted, then next ISO build/run will pick it up (unless it's not been published by that point)
<OvenWerks> raysession I am not worried about. but the ubuntustudio-* stuff
<OvenWerks> So far they all look to be released more than a day ago.
<Eickmeyer> Yes, that should all be updated and released.
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: It'll need to be added to the seed too (something I can do).
<studiobot> <teward001> yep.
<studiobot> <teward001> you'll have to add raysession and possibly ubuntustudio-menu-add to the seed
<studiobot> <teward001> since that was a NEW I helped you with
<studiobot> <teward001> (if they aren't in the seed already)
<OvenWerks> Cool, I will do a test of the ISO plus install over other flavour
<Eickmeyer> I already added ubuntustudio-menu-add.
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
<Eickmeyer> I've had to do a few changes to the seed this cycle.
 * OvenWerks thinks thats great!
<studiobot> <teward001> makes sense
<studiobot> <teward001> there's always minor changes to the seeds during every cycle xD
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I might add lsp-plugins and dpf-plugins to -installer, but that's pretty trivial.
<OvenWerks> It is the first time Studio has done much moving at all in the past few years
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: just remember to up the number to match
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I have to, otherwise the repo will reject the upload.
<Eickmeyer> OH, you mean that number. Yes, hehe
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  not the release number but the number of packages
<Eickmeyer> Yep. I made that mistake once in backports. :P
<OvenWerks> the menu icon sizes are now correct
<OvenWerks> There are a number of applications in Audio->mixers that have no icon. There used to be an icon that was a part of alsa that I think they used... in fact I think these are part of alsa
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: It also helps that Eickmeyer's got a coredev here helping as well, makes uploading for NEW easier :P
<OvenWerks> We seem to be missing the alsa-tools icon.
 * OvenWerks hands @teward001 a coffee
<Eickmeyer> No idea what could've happened to alsa-tools.
<studiobot> <teward001> *consumes the coffee*
<Eickmeyer> Looks like the Echomixer and HD* stuff is missing icons.
<OvenWerks> Icon=alsa-tools
<Eickmeyer> The only alsa-tools icon we ever used was in HiColor, so I wonder if it got removed?
<Eickmeyer> Not sure I can look into any of this today. Flavor lead meeting in <1/2 hour, and I have a procedure at 2pm. Upper endoscopy.
<OvenWerks> I can't check right now (installing) but which package has echomixer in it
<OvenWerks> no problem
<OvenWerks> once I am installed I can check and put a bug against that package
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's alsa-tools-gui.
<OvenWerks> I will put a bug report in.
<OvenWerks> There are icons installed but the desktop files are wrong.
<OvenWerks> Bug #1837932
<ubottu> bug 1837932 in alsa-tools (Ubuntu) "No icons show in menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837932
<OvenWerks> This page: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds/196994/testcases/1300/results
<OvenWerks> The test case after the last step has a link to "file a bug" The link does not go to any place to file a bug but rather to a page that says this iso has no bugs against it.
<studiobot> <teward001> you opened your bug. you attach the bug number to your test result on the ISO tracker
<studiobot> <teward001> we don't have any detailed instructions written :P
<OvenWerks> That bug I can deal with but when I reboot from running the iso I am not instructed to remove my install media
<OvenWerks> I am not sure which package to bug for that
<OvenWerks> Bug #1837934
<ubottu> bug 1837934 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "There is no warning to remove install media when rebooting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837934
<OvenWerks> Installing Studio over Kubuntu
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can confirm US icons are installed by ubuntustudio-branding-common
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yep, I made that change recently.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: there does not seem to be anything that installs ubuntustudio-menu-add in installer
 * OvenWerks wonders if it should be installed by default with -menu
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We could do that, but I was under the impression it was only for Xfce.
<Eickmeyer> kmenuedit does a good job for Plasma.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I don't think it is xfce only... but I am not sure about kde
<Eickmeyer> You're on Kubuntu right now, right?
<OvenWerks> yes
<Eickmeyer> Right-click on the menu, click Edit Applications. Look at that editor. I think it does the same job, if not better than ubuntustudio-menu-add.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, should we add it as a dependency to -menu, or leave it?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am not sure I wish to recomend kmenuedit
<OvenWerks> A change made by kmenuedit could make any change we made in -menu not show up.
<OvenWerks> we need to add whatever package would supply exo-desktop-item-edit as a dep to -menu-add
<OvenWerks> shall I create a bug?
<Eickmeyer> Nah, I'm going to add it as a dependency to -menu right now and upload it.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: menu-add needs to be fixed too.
<Eickmeyer> If it were after feature freeze, I'd probably need a bug report.
<Eickmeyer> What's wrong with menu-add?
<OvenWerks> it needs a depends on exo-utils
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I can fix that real quick too.
<Eickmeyer> Unfortunately, I don't have PPU for that. Will require a coffee shipment to teward.
<OvenWerks> I can give a bug report...
<Eickmeyer> Nah, shouldn't need a bug report.
<teward> Is this for Eoan?
<OvenWerks> yes
<Eickmeyer> Change made. teward: ubuntustudio-menu-add... i can haz upload?
<Eickmeyer> Ok, I've gotta EOD soon.
<teward> maybe you can
<teward> maybe you can't
<teward> Eickmeyer: upload in progress.  Had to correct a typo in your changelog tho
<Eickmeyer> Ug... Had to be something. :P
<Eickmeyer> EOD for me now. I'll be incapacitated the rest of the day.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-07-26
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: how are you today?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re: grub2-themes-ubuntustudio should the install run update-grub?
<OvenWerks> Or does that work independently?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I initially had it running update-grub, but the problem there is that it was creating a race condition when the ISO would build, causing our ISOs to not build at all. So, I had to remove it.
<OvenWerks> ok.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: after looking at grub2-themes-ubuntustudio, I am not sure it needs update-grub anyway after seeing where it installs it's files. Update-grub creates /boot/grub/grub.cfg but the themes are separate
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, and it's slaved to the Plymouth theme, so if the plymouth theme is selected, once an update-grub is triggered the ubuntustudio theme takes over.
<OvenWerks> so mkinitramfs then
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> AND, the plymouth theme does an update-initramfs in postinst.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Additionally, ubuntustudio-branding-common does call an update-grub in postinst.
<OvenWerks> in this case I only got the one package: grub2-themes-ubuntustudio
<OvenWerks>  so I guess I will see the effects next kernel ;)
<Eickmeyer> You could just run a manual "sudo update-grub". Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Eickmeyer> ubuntustudio-branding-common exists to do all the low-level theming for people.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-20
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[kde]1: does this look too convoluted:
<OvenWerks> if (not nzd in blacklist) and ((def_config['DRIVER'] == "firewire") or (nzd != def_config['DEV'])):
<OvenWerks> Thats all one line...
<krytarik> if nzd not in blacklist and (def_config['DRIVER'] == "firewire" or nzd != def_config['DEV']): -- dropping a few parentheses here. >_>
<OvenWerks> krytarik: Ya, I figured that was possible, the extras make for better readability
<krytarik> Hmm, yeah possibly..
<OvenWerks> Anyway point taken, parentheses removed
<krytarik> I mean there is always the consideration on Python to use parentheses or not, for readability or consistency with the rest of the code - but I did have a quick look at the existing code before suggesting that. :)
 * OvenWerks tries to think if that part is even uploaded yet... I guess something similar
<OvenWerks> I think it was just: if nzd not in blacklist
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-21
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm back from vacation. Looks like krytarik helped you with your last ping.
<Eickmeyer> How close are we on studio-controls?
<OvenWerks> ya. I think I am pretty close to done with controls for this cycle
<Eickmeyer> Sweet.
<Eickmeyer> Just let me know.
<OvenWerks> There is one item left on my todo which may be complete. It is at least part done... it has to do with making devices that are available when not using the alsa back end (alsa jack master) available as an extra device etc..
<OvenWerks> and making sure the jack master device is not used as an extra device ...
<OvenWerks> bluetooth headphones will not get there I think as I have other things to get to.
<OvenWerks> firewire is back in, with a switch to turn alsa-firewire off (needs reboot)
<OvenWerks> I have gotten it reliably restarting wth different buffer sizes now. I don't know if the work around I use is even needed with all FW devices but it shouldn't hurt.
<OvenWerks> ffado mixer does have some problems still. I may need to restart ffado-dbus-server at each jack restart (which uses a busreset)
 * OvenWerks is thinking out loud and now has a solution to try
<OvenWerks> I also need to retest using a FW device with the alsa drivers.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: in the long run, I may switch from jackdbus to jackd. I do not think jackdbus allows usng more than one FW device at a time.
<OvenWerks> but that is for another cycle, If I can get one device running well I will be happy.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: for 20.10 release notes: Controls adds firewire support (one of our devs got a fireiwre device)  :)
 * OvenWerks is sure Eickmeyer can write it better
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: different subject: The kde/plasma sw update tool (Discover) does not seem to auto remove old kernels.
<OvenWerks> The one we use in xfce does this (or tries to, it misses whatever kernel was on the install media or the last kernel from the old version in an upgrade)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, that's as easy as a "sudo apt autoremove" to get rid of the old kernels. Definitely something to make the Kubuntu team aware of. (RikMills might have more insight/this is a ping haha).
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I also noticed while removing linux-generic kept the sw updater from installing the new generic kernel, it did not mark the actuall kernel images as non-dependants (autoremovable)
<OvenWerks> actually no, the autoremove did not work
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I don't know how that works. You might have to use muon to go in and individually remove the old kernels.
 * OvenWerks has been doing that the few minutes
 * RikMills has zero additional insight
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Perhaps that's a bug in Discover that it doesn't remove old kernels?
<Eickmeyer> Or, maybe a missing feature?
<OvenWerks> if the /boot directory is in a small partition, it is a bug
<RikMills> feature I would guess. then again, you can argue how good an idea autoremove is, unless (as implied) space is running out
<OvenWerks> 14 kernels is a bit much
<OvenWerks> I actually thin this may be a linux-generic linux-lowlatency thing
<RikMills> I had someone in the Neon chat running out of space in /boot the other day, so it is a concern
<RikMills> but honestly it does not come up in 'help' topics much
<RikMills> the idea of managing kernels with discover makes me queasy.... :P
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: If one uses LVM at all, it's a concern as the default is only something like 300-500 MB for /boot.
<RikMills> well will have to disagree. I dislike the idea of an updater deciding to remove kernels
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: It's unselectable in update-manager, so I imagine it could be just as much opt-out in Discover.
<RikMills> as discover is multidistro, I doubt KDE would want to implement it and maintain the data on what each distro calls its kernels packages
<RikMills> feel free to ask thye discover dev Aleix Pol
<RikMills> *the
<Eickmeyer> RikMills: Ok. Thanks for the info. :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ardour 6.2 headed to backports.
<OvenWerks> RikMills: the updater being muti-distro is the right answer to the question
<RikMills> you could have a distro supplied config file with the correct patterns...
 * RikMills runs
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think all kernel images are depends of something... this should mean that any one image (and co) should show up for auto remove when there dep is removed.
<OvenWerks> *their
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, I would think. The thing is, update-manager is more intelligent in that it knows to remove all but the two most recent kernels.
<Eickmeyer> I think it's hard-coded.
<OvenWerks> so in theory... a depend on kernel + -1 and -2 should do it... except if the person has not upgraded for a year...
<OvenWerks> A better hack would be for a new kernel package to create a meta package that replaces an old one with just depends on the last available kernel :)
<Eickmeyer> linux-lowlatency and linux-generic anre both metas, so I don't know why they're doing that.
<Eickmeyer> rather, why they're *not* doing that.
<OvenWerks> RikMills: it would actually be better for ubuntu to have script that gets called (or can get called) as part of a new kernel install
<OvenWerks> /etc/default/ could have a file with Clean_kernels=True/False or one line for each kernel
<OvenWerks> however, there is no percieved reason to do this because ubuntu is gnome.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That would make this something for the kernel team.
<Eickmeyer> teward might have insight. (shameless ping)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it does look like the depends in the kernel have some extra stuff.
<OvenWerks> they have one more bit
<OvenWerks> for example, I have 5.4.0-40 but the dep is 5.4.0.35.40 or something like that.
<OvenWerks> actually (=5.4.0.42.45)
<OvenWerks> My guess is that apt does not deal with this they way the sw-updater does
<Eickmeyer> Must be.
<Eickmeyer> Either way, my job just got a little easier. lsp-plugins is upstreamed to Debian. \o/
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ok, controls is ready for feature freeze. just bug fixes anymore
<OvenWerks> testing would be great:)
<OvenWerks> when I say bug fixes I mean bugs I am not aware of, I do not have a list to fix
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sounds great. So, that means a 2.0.0 release Awesome.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: when adding release notes about the reintroduction of firewire, it may be a good idea to note that this is only for single FW devices at this time. I don't think alsa can do that though the multi plugin may work. and I am not sure if jackdbus can either
<Eickmeyer> Ok, good to know.
<OvenWerks> yes, unless we want to do 1.9* for bug testing first.
<OvenWerks> but whatever you feel is fine by me.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Question, should this be announced in Linux Audio Announce?
<OvenWerks> (after you tag the release)
<Eickmeyer> Here's what I see: you have nothing left on your to-do list for this cycle. Because of that, that sounds to me like a new major release for the rebranding. So, yes, I think an announcement on Linux Audio Announce would be appropriate.
<Eickmeyer> It'll also get backported.
<Eickmeyer> 2.0.x would be bugfixes.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Also, nice to see it done a month in advance!
 * OvenWerks has other things he needs to work on.
<OvenWerks> even if someone nees to use qjackctl or command line because they have three fw devices, The part I added to controls will be helpful
<OvenWerks> I may try to modify ffado-mixer or fork it if upstream is not interested.
<OvenWerks> I have found I need a bus reset every time I open a FW device... after which ffado-mixer no longer works. I have this working with controls but not for people starting jackd from CL
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-22
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Just tagged a release, feel free to post to linux audio announce. :)
<Eickmeyer> Also, uploaded to Groovy and backports, will be hitting Fedora with it tomorrow.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: what version of debhelper is the going thing? (=13) fails?
<OvenWerks> from buildlog for controls.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ignore that, the version in backports is correct, I should probably disable the autobuilds for controls. 13 is in Groovy.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: In order to backport Studio Controls, I had to dummy package ubuntustudio-controls and backport the new version of ubuntustudio-installer for the dependencies. Also, with lsp-plugins, in switching to the Debian version, it appears as though some stuff kinda broke.
<Eickmeyer> People are going to need to do "sudo apt full-upgrade" or "sudo apt dist-upgrade".
<studiobot> <teward001> how far are you planning on backporting or are you only backporting to Focal?
<studiobot> <teward001> because dh 12 is the latest in -backports for Bionic ;)
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: Just to Focal. We're not backporting to Bionic any further. I manually changed it in d/control for the package in the backports PPA.
<studiobot> <teward001> cool just making sure ;)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I have 3 bugs to take care of, probably tomorrow morning
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sounds good.
<OvenWerks> (one should really create bridges _before_ trying to connect to them)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-23
<Eickmeyer> Uh... yeah. heh
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Got something fun: bug 1888588
<ubottu> bug 1888588 in studio-controls (Ubuntu) "autojack crashed with IndexError in phones_check(): string index out of range" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1888588
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: after reading: https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_v1.1_-_Braveheart
<OvenWerks> I don't feel so bad
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think the bugs I have already deal with that too... but I will add that to the list.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Honestly, the amount of bugs in SC isn't so bad considering.
<OvenWerks> at least one of them has been there since fist release :)
<OvenWerks> it takes people really using it to point some of these out
<Eickmeyer> Exactly, which is why I wasn't shying-away from doing a release.
<OvenWerks> can we remove notes.txt? I think changelog covers it.
<OvenWerks> I think I will default phones device to none.... unless I can find an easy way to detect what internal audio is called (INTEL, PCH, GENERIC, etc.)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: My work with the firewire stuff and other complex audio devices, has convinced me that the way alsa presents mixer controls is not very good. Alsamixer does not even show all controls if there are more than 9 channels and on top of that present those first 9 as 3 stereo sets and 3 mono channels. Alsamixer also is not able to group more than 2 sets of controls per channel, level 
<OvenWerks> and mute.
<OvenWerks> QASMixer is better in that it does show all the controls at least and it does not group a set of controls in bits of stereo and mono. (it will gang the whole group of 12 or whatever controls though)
<OvenWerks> But QASMixer is hard to navigate when there are a lot of controls for a device.
<OvenWerks> All that to say... one of my next projects will likely be studio-mixer... which may be a fork of qasmixer or not depending on the toolkit I use for the GUI.
<OvenWerks> I expect that where the device allows it will have mixer strips that gather all strip controls in one strip. If meters are available they will be included too.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: re: notes.txt, sure.
<Eickmeyer> studio-mixer sounds interesting. I'm sure there would be a ton of benefit to that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: controls 2.0.1 pushed (you can change that to 2.1.0 if that works better) Take a look.
<Eickmeyer> Nah, 2.0.1 is fine.
<OvenWerks> 5 items in the change
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I haven't tagged
<Eickmeyer> I tagged. Building the package for upload now.
<Eickmeyer> BTW, Focal builds are fixed.
<OvenWerks> I saw that, how soon to the pont release?
<Eickmeyer> A week or two.
<OvenWerks> good that it works then
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I'd been bugging the release team about it for some time. The problem was caused by me adding linux-lowlatency to lowlatency-settings recommends, but they found a way to keep that from being a problem in the future.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-24
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it looks like controls will get yet another bump...
<studiobot> <teward001> @Eickmeyer that NEW package you asked for
<studiobot> <teward001> you haven't done your own cursory review have you?
<studiobot> <teward001> i may ask RoyK to look because E:LimitedCycles the next two weeks
<studiobot> <teward001> at least to see if there's anything I missed in my cursory reviews
<studiobot> <Eickmeyer> @teward001 I did my own review while packaging it, but I may have missed something. That's just life.
<studiobot> <teward001> mmkay
<studiobot> <teward001> i'll still ask RoyK to take a look because right now i'm innundated with ITSec stuff this week
<studiobot> <teward001> and server hardware replacement next
<studiobot> <teward001> sooooooooooooooo
<studiobot> <teward001> *bashes head on wall*
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: did we get a new version of Carla?
<OvenWerks> It seems to me Carla used to show a2j as two boxes now it is all in one.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: control 2.0.2 is up and tagged
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: there will be a 2.0.3
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think I will remove suport for older version config files.
<OvenWerks> with the change of name it is expected to have to re set things up
<OvenWerks> answer to earlier question... yes we have a new Carla... Carla now detects jack shutdown and allows to restart audio engine \o/
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: controls 2.0.3 is tagged
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-25
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, thanks.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yes, we got a new version of Carla.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Also, a Dell 11-3148 with Ubuntu Studio? I have one, and that is a severely underpowered machine for Ubuntu Studio.
 * OvenWerks is typing on a Dell Inspiron|6400 bios date 2007
<OvenWerks> I have (with US 18.04) done off site recording Ardour and a USB 6 i/o device.
<OvenWerks> won't boot a 64bit ISO :(
<Eickmeyer> A Dell 11-3148 will boot a 64-bit ISO, but the experience leaves a lot to be desired.
<OvenWerks> so does this, but like I said it will record. Not so sure about usiing it as a softsynth or doing mixdown with lots of effects, only 2G ram
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. The 20.10 ISOs have a 4GB minimum, just because we've had people with 2GB coming in and having difficulty/xruns and wondering why their system isn't doing what they expect.
<Eickmeyer> BUT, do you think I should lower that back down to 2?
<OvenWerks> 4gb is written or it won't install with less?
<OvenWerks> if it is just written, that is fine someone withn less knows they are on there own
<OvenWerks> A lot of arm based systems are 2GB though
<Eickmeyer> It won't install with less. And the arm-based systems is irrelevant because we have no arm ISOs.
<Eickmeyer> If people want Studio on arm, they have to go to Server first.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I guess if someone wants a lesser system they can start with a flavour and add...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, the issue is that other flavors only deal with the DE. We deal with the actual software.
<chicoweiss> hello, I'm a musician and a beginner at using Linux. I am having troubles making my Tascam us-200 work on ubuntu studio. The leds are working, but I can't get to actually use it. Can someone help me? Thanks a lot and sorry for the noob question
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: new tag... again. This one is quite important as there was a spelling mistake that crashes autojack.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: On it.
 * OvenWerks wonders how he got it to run here
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-07-26
<OvenWerks> installed the new -controls here and I have sound. Headphones work. I can have audio going to jack master and when the phones are plugged in to the PCH, it is detected, an a2j bridge is created and the outputs are moved to that output. Unplug and the reverse happens.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Perfect.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Sounds like the goals were met, OvenWerks .
<OvenWerks> I'm still finding edge cases that don't work quite right... so not done yet.
