#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-24
<Kamion> hi
<kiko> hey there
<ogra> hi guys
<kiko> hey there
<kiko> camilotelles_, meet Kamion (colin) and ogra (oliver)
<kiko> Kamion, ogra: camilotelles_ manages the team
<camilotelles_> hi Kamion and ogra
<ogra> hi
<Kamion> hi Camilo
<camilotelles_> Kamion, meet surak, robinho and dilago. 
<surak> we are the team :-)
<Dilago> hehe hi
<ogra> hi team ;)
<Robinho> hi
<Kamion> hey folks, good to have you on board.
<Kamion> so, have you guys all read http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress ?
<camilotelles_> there is more one. Pablo. He is not here now, he is teaching.
<surak> sure
<Dilago> yep
<Robinho> yes
<ogra> i just started to make a little mockup of my GUI ideas, but since i'm not ready yet, we should discuss it without...
<Kamion> I don't know if you guys have much familiarity with our existing installer code.
<surak> we ain't looked at your install code yet.
<Kamion> if not, I suspect you'll get familiar pretty quickly. :-)
<ogra> heh
<camilotelles_> but we have already modified the knoppix code for our purposes.
<camilotelles_> knoppix/kurumin.
<surak> As I could read, your live cd runs as a profile for your installation program, am I correct?
<Kamion> Well, the goal here is a little different, because (just as we do at the moment) we want to build both the installer and the live CD from the same codebase.
<Kamion> surak: right, that's a good description of it.
<camilotelles_> excelent idea.
<surak> I already saw something about dloop - and using the .debs as a part of live cd's tree. What's the status?
<Kamion> OK, let me give you a quick run-down of the current approach.
<Kamion> On our build daemons, we build a compressed loop (cloop) filesystem out of standard distro packages.
<Kamion> That's basically "build chroot, install lots of packages into it, run create_compressed_filesystem".
<Kamion> We put that image as a huge file on our live CDs.
<surak> just like we do already...
<Kamion> right
<Kamion> To boot this image, we wanted to start up just the same way as the install CD does, because that way we get exactly the same hardware detection
<Kamion> this means we don't have to fix bugs twice (of course), and it means that the live CD becomes a much better test of whether the install CD's going to work on your hardware.
<surak> but does grub behaves as good as isolinux running from cds?
<Kamion> we don't use grub, because it behaved much worse.
<Kamion> isolinux boots on much more hardware, as it turns out
<surak> ok
<Kamion> We essentially run the first half of the installer, and then drop into a new installer component we wrote called 'casper'
<Kamion> this mounts the cloop, fiddles with it a bit to copy in parameters detected by the installer, and then pivot_roots and re-execs init.
<Kamion> After that it's a regular system.
<kiko> Kamion, why do you re-exec init?
<Kamion> The challenge for a live CD installer, as we see it, is to run the *second* half of the installer, or equivalent - ideally using as much of the same code as possible. Bootloader installation especially is fiddly and has a lot of special cases related to partitioning that we want to preserve.
<surak> It's the init from the big tree, not the one used before the huge tree was mounted, isn't it?
<Kamion> kiko: the init running in the installer is a cut-down version; we don't want to run it permanently. Also, this lets us umount the initrd.
<kiko> I see.
<Kamion> and it's an easy way to do normal system startup
<surak> The problem is that your second half of installation consists mostly of installing packages, instead of knoppix approach of copying the entire / fs. Am I correct?
<kiko> Kamion, will we still preserve the installer version of the build?
<Kamion> surak: That's the current approach, but for a live CD installer we'd want to copy /. You're right that it's not exactly the same procedure.
<ogra> kiko, there will be a downloadable "install only" image
<Kamion> kiko: yes, for server installs and other tasks that require more flexibility
<Kamion> kiko: we'll probably only ship the live CD in shipit, though (reduces costs)
<Kamion> people installing 2000 machines aren't going to want to use a live CD to do it. :-)
<kiko> so the live cd installer is mainly for shipit and testing. 
<kiko> gotcha
<ogra> for the masses  :)
<surak> Kamion, as the installer code is about the same, can't it be set as isolinux parameter?
<surak> for init, I mean
<Kamion> surak: I don't quite understand you
<kiko> me neither
<surak> You currently have two cds. One for live (which cannot be installed) and one for installation only.
<Kamion> surak: oh, we don't have space on a CD for both
<surak> ok
<Kamion> surak: we ship a combined DVD though
<Kamion> but like it or not, not everyone has DVD drives. :-)
<Kamion> it is pretty much a boot-time parameter, though
<Kamion> anyway
<Kamion> the work we'd like you guys to do divides down into a couple of pieces:
<surak> What I was thinking about was in setting a boot parameter, which could launch both the install and live. But you're correct, too much stuff, even with that dloop.
<Kamion> (1) coordinate with ogra to figure out what information you need his graphical frontend to spit out (e.g. partitioning, mount points, whatever) to do your work, and agree on frmats
<Kamion> formats
* ogra would love to do the IPC dbus based between fron/backend
<Kamion> (2) figure out how to actually reuse the installer code that needs to be reused (it's currently in udebs, which are not very convenient for use once the live CD has booted)
<Kamion> (3) write any new components that need to happen (e.g. copying / to the target filesystem)
<Kamion> I should probably elaborate slightly on (2)
<ogra> i thought udebs are usable like deb, just more stipped...?
<Kamion> instead of using .debs in the installer, we build reduced packages called .udebs (micro-debs). Some of them are collected together into an initrd, and some are installed at run-time by the installer's mini-packaging-system.
<Kamion> This is very modular, and lets us re-use bits of code from the normal distribution, like parted and e2fsprogs.
<Kamion> as ogra says, the package formats are more or less compatible, but there are problems:
<Kamion> apt doesn't know how to fetch udebs;
<Kamion> the dependency structure is quite different;
<Kamion> and the filesystem layout in the installer isn't the same as you'd find in a normal system.
<Kamion> Usually, rather than trying to install udebs in a normal system, you want to make the source package produce both debs and udebs of the same thing and use whichever one is appropriate.
<Kamion> I can generally make this happen upstream where necessary
<surak> couldn't those be already at the filesystem instead of installing it at boot time?
<surak> (like parted)
<Kamion> surak: yes, they could; we probably want them to be in .deb form anyway, so that they can be installed conveniently as part of the process of building the live CD, and so that it's easier for people customising the live CD to remove them if they want to.
<Kamion> I imagine anything you need should just be a dependency of the live CD installer package
<surak> Let me ask you something: the .debs are inside the livecd's tree?
<Kamion> To start with, I'd recommend putting together something that works out of the pieces that are available in whatever way you can. Then we'll have a clear target for what refactoring needs to happen.
<Kamion> surak: nope
<Kamion> they're unpacked into the live CD's tree, but the original .deb files are not available
<Kamion> again, space reasons
<Kamion> we're running pretty close to the limit on the live CDs, and now pretty much any additions require removing some language support. :-(
<ogra> will the opencd content stay ?
<surak> opencd?
<Kamion> ogra: remains to be seen. We'd like to keep it, but possibly/probably in a reduced form
<ogra> surak, if you put the livecd in a windows box, it offers win-oss sorftware to you
<Kamion> surak: free software built for Windows, with an autorun Windows frontend
<surak> oh, i saw it
<Kamion> also known as WinFOSS
<ogra> thats a cool fearute but eats a lot of space
<ogra> -r
<surak> Specially openoffice
<ogra> yep
<Kamion> that's one of the areas of space flexibility, yeah
<Kamion> it's really good for advocacy, though, so not first on the list to cut
<ogra> but we could reduce it to the essential bits (mozilla/OO.o) if needed i guess
<camilotelles_> kiko, kamion, ogra: I will have to leave know. After i will sync with my team. Good luck for us!
<Kamion> camilotelles_: thanks
<ogra> camilotelles_, yay
<Kamion> So - any questions? The UbuntuExpress spec mentions a number of package names; doing 'apt-get source' on those and reading the code may be a useful starting point.
<surak> There's too much common things between ooo linux and win. There's no easy way of using it inside the live tree and as a windows installer however. Anything in work about this matter?
<kiko> Kamion: I would suggest setting up a weekly phone call with surak to checkpoint on how it's going
<Kamion> surak: no, not at the moment
<kiko> Kamion, I would also suggest giving him a concrete goal for this first set of days to make sure he starts off with something more practical than "reading the code"
<Kamion> kiko: That makes sense. I'm not sure whether it'll be me or mdz making the calls from here on in, though, but I can start.
<kiko> timezonewise it's the same
<camilotelles_> i agree with kiko. a concrete goal is needed.
<camilotelles_> bye
<Kamion> OK, let me ponder for a moment :-)
<kiko> do it
<surak> Kamion, ogra: at first, it would be interesting for us to reproduce your build daemon.
<Kamion> The first thing we need is a working prototype. Don't worry about how it looks for now; just put together something that asks for the partition on which to put /, then copies the live CD's / onto it, installs a boot loader, and reboots
<ogra> surak, then you should talk to lamont, its a sbuild setup....
<kiko> ogra, or kinnison
<ogra> kiko, oh, i didnt know :)
<Kamion> reusing the boot loader code that's there, one way or another
<Kamion> no, it's not quite sbuild
<ogra> Kamion, thats what lamont told me
<kiko> yeah, because kinnison has been working on the lp side of builds. but anyway
<Kamion> but talk to lamont, yes; we haven't yet made that code public, but I'm sure he can give you it for this
<Kamion> LaMont Jones <lamont@ubuntu.com>
<surak> so we can test out stuff and broke our own builds several times a day
<Kamion> surak: for testing, wouldn't it be easier to boot the live CD and install stuff into it directly?
<Kamion> I imagine it'd be quicker, at least ...
<surak> For one-time testing, yes
<surak> But for testing with different hardware, may be not. 
<Kamion> as in, build packages, stick them in a local apt archive, install them, remove if necessary, install again ...
<Kamion> ogra: possibly some confusion; the build daemon itself is sbuild, that's true, but the piece that builds the live CD compressed filesystem is not
<ogra> ah, ok
<Kamion> so it depends which surak means (possibly both)
<Kamion> Obviously, you'll need to be aware that this will be targetted at i386, amd64, and powerpc at least; for the moment I'd be happy with a working prototype on i386, as long as i386-specific things are reasonably neatly separated.
<surak> How's parted working on ppc?
<Kamion> Works fine. Can't do LVM/RAID yet (work in progress), but apart from that no problems.
<ogra> and as i said, it would be nice to just attach the GUI to dbus and get all data via the bus...
<Kamion> The partition table layout's rather different, though.
<Kamion> especially as far as booting the damn things goes
<ogra> ...so this would require some dbus love in the backend, but gives the opportunity to excahange the frontend easily
<surak> Are there requirements about the gui?
<ogra> make it easy 
<ogra> ...my MOM needs to be able to install with it
<Kamion> written in python, will need facility to have either gtk or qt (but concentrating on gtk at first)
<ogra> i'd like to do a certain design...
<Kamion> we won't necessarily make ogra do the qt frontend, just design with other frontends in mind :-)
<Kamion> as far as possible, it should ask all questions at the start of the process
<ogra> Kamion, i'll be able to abuse Riddell for that i guess ;)
<ogra> www.grawert.net/express_mockup.png
<ogra> its far from being anything...
<Kamion> heh, yeah
<surak> definetly
<ogra> but in first place i want to have a icon for each step in the left pane
<ogra> with a heading ....
<Kamion> surak: ok, can we set up a call for let's say next Tuesday, to find out how things are going?
* Riddell looks scared
<kiko> whoa
<ogra> steps that arent run yet should be greyed out
* surak too
<kiko> what about using gparted?
<kiko> isn't that what we discussed with mdz at udu?
<ogra> steps that are running should have a little animation
<Kamion> kiko: the spec links to GraphicalPartitioningTool, which discusses that
<ogra> kiko, yep
<kiko> ah, this is for the installer. sorry.
<kiko> I thought this was for the partitioning tool
<Kamion> but for default (automatic) partitioning we'd rather not drop into a full-blown partitioner at all
<ogra> the dumbed down gparted shall be integrated in the app for the partitioning step
<kiko> yes, of course.
<kiko> <Kamion> as far as possible, it should ask all questions at the start of the process
<ogra> yep
<kiko> note this, very important sabdfl requirement
<surak> Will something be asked AFTER the live-cd is installed?
<ogra> thats kickstart ;)
<ogra> surak, we should make sure that its not necessary
<surak> like fedora's firstboot or winxp account creation?
<ogra> we can do that before
<Kamion> surak: there's discussion of that in the spec, under OEMInstaller ...
<Kamion> "Base system configuration"
<Kamion> code will be pretty similar, but I suspect we'll want to ask it beforehand
<Kamion> before reboot, I mean
<surak> ok
<Kamion> ogra: kickstart's a fully automatic thing - definitely not about asking questions :-)
<ogra> Kamion, but you only answer your questions at one point, never afterwards ;)
<surak> I don't know what's the current kickstart status - but I'm assuming we (brazil team) should not worry about it.
<ogra> s/answer your questions/make your setup/
<ogra> surak, kickstart is supported by ubuntu :)
<Kamion> surak: nope - kickstart is a translation layer over the top of debconf preseeding. You do need to worry about not breaking debconf preseeding in regular installs.
<Kamion> but you'll find out about that as time goes on - no need to worry about it for a prototype.
<surak> ok
<surak> ok. I have to look at the installation code. Is glade allowed?
<Kamion> I'll assume there's no objection to a call next Tuesday (24th). Are you guys on IRC regularly?
<ogra> surak, why not
<Kamion> surak: in the frontend, yes; not in installer code.
<Kamion> that's why there's a separation
<kiko> surak, <Kamion> I'll assume there's no objection to a call next Tuesday (24th). Are you guys on IRC regularly?
<Kamion> installer backend code is shell and C only
* ogra couldnt imagine a case where glade isnt used for GUI
<surak> I don't use to, but that's ok
<kiko> IRC is da place to be
<ogra> yeah
<Kamion> surak: just for a means of contact. e-mail's cool too, but higher-latency
<kiko> and INBOXes are unmanageable ;)
<ogra> kiko, change your client.... reading mails with telnet via pop3 is outdated ;)
<surak> yeah, and pine changed their license some years ago :-)
<kiko> pop3 is hot cakes
<ogra> heh
<kiko> I use less /var/spool/mail/kiko
<surak> Is there a ubuntuexpress-list?
<kiko> good point
<kiko> Kamion, does it warrant a real list, or ubuntu-devel?
<Kamion> surak: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com ;-)
<Kamion> kiko: not yet, imho
<kiko> k
<ogra> kiko, for 6 ppl ?
<kiko> yeah yeah
<kiko> ogra, stop chiding me or I'll complain about my bugday mail from you and dholbach!
<surak> :-)
* ogra hides
<kiko> aha, now you hide, human!
* kiko kicks apache one more time
<kiko> @#!@# trailing slash requirement
<surak> Kamion, I thing you are about gmt+2, is that it?
* thom kicks kiko back, on behalf of apache
<surak> think
<Kamion> surak: London time, so GMT+1
<kiko> surak, I think england is currently gmt+1 
<kiko> daylight savings (sneer. as if london had daylight.)
<Kamion> ha
<surak> oh sorry, I though Kamion was at swiss
<kiko> btcentralplus == british telefoo
<ogra> lets just use UTC...for the guys  in the london darkness
<surak> okay, so may 24th, about 13:00 utc
<Kamion> works for me
<Kamion> that probably won't be the regular time, because mdz is in UTC-0700 and unlikely to be awake
<Kamion> so if he wants to do the call it'll have to move later; but for next week 1300 UTC is fine
<surak> ok
<Kamion> In the meantime, of course, feel free to contact me or ogra if you have any questions.
<ogra> yep
<surak> sure. I'm living at #ubuntu-devel from now on
<ogra> ... <hostmaster@grawert.net>
<kiko> yes, ogra knows everything, including about gay bars in sydney.
<ogra> lol
<surak> kiko, how do you know that?
<ogra> kiko, not more then you though :)
<kiko> surak, I was there :)
<surak> So it seems that you became a coinasseur of those places also :-)
<kiko> I only dab in them, ogra's the expert.
<ogra> lol
<surak> Ok. Let me start to look at the code and cry out in pain. I'll be here, just in case.
<kiko> you da man surak 
<ogra> ok, i'll do smoe more work on the mockup and want to hear some critics next meeting ;)
<kiko> I want to hear some bugday-love-mail
<ogra> kiko, you'll get it...
<surak> kiko, if I ain't, I'm screwed from now on ;-)
<kiko> seize the moment!
<kiko> surak, Kamion: are we agreed upon a goal for next week and a way to manage ourselves into it?
<kiko> if so, this meeting is, as huggy bear would say, adjourned.
<Kamion> I believe the prototype I mentioned above is the goal for next week.
<Kamion> surak?
<kiko> <Kamion> The first thing we need is a working prototype. Don't worry about how it looks for now; just put together something that asks for the partition on which to put /, then copies the live CD's / onto it, installs a boot loader, and reboots
<kiko> okay
<Kamion> About the only further requirement there is that it should use existing code wherever possible.
<Kamion> But that'll be faster anyway :-)
<kiko> granted
<surak> ok
<Kamion> thanks
<kiko> ADJOURNED
<sladen> Kamion: gah, missed the meeting earlier.  I wrote a python tool for zero'ing unused blocks on an ext2/3 image so partimage can be dropped
<Kamion> sladen: uh ... which meeting did you miss?
<Kamion> sladen: cool, pass that to lamont
<pitti> Kamion, astharot: I can't attend today's meeting, I have a little fever and want to go to bed now
<pitti> Kamion: I'd like to propose astharot to become a MOTU
<tseng|work> get well, pitti
<zul> hey
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Keybuk] : Tue 17 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<lamont> sladen: coolness
<Kamion> 20:08 < pitti> Kamion, astharot: I can't attend today's meeting, I have a little fever and want to go to bed now
<Kamion> 20:09 < pitti> Kamion: I'd like to propose astharot to become a MOTU
<Kamion> Keybuk: ^-- for the agenda
<Keybuk> ok, though I don't think we're going to be anywhere near Quorate, so that kind of stuff will probably get deferred
<dholbach> hey
<Kamion> Keybuk: oh, sabdfl isn't going to make it either?
<Keybuk> we'll see :)
<Kamion> Keybuk: sadly I don't think my temporarily delegated powers from mdz include TB membership :-)
<Kamion> though he did ask me to show up
<Keybuk> heh, aren't you a CC member?
<Kamion> yes
<Keybuk> which would give you more powers than god :p
<Keybuk> and lovely as you are, there's an evil glint in your eye sometimes that worries me <g>
<ogra> heh
<Kamion> mwahahaha, etc.
<mjg59> Oh, heavens, am I supposed to be here?
<ogra> mjg59, where else ?
<mjg59> Tidying the kitchen
<diamond> technical board meeing in 12 minutes, correct?
<MartinSchmeisser> looks like
<Keybuk> hope so
<diamond> ok. never sure about the time difference
* Keybuk goes to make tea
* JaneW too
<JaneW> runs
<Kamion> hi Jane
* dholbach too
<mvo> hmmmm .... tea
<thom> that's a stunning idea
<zul> diamond: date --utc
<zul> hey jeff
* mvo goes to get some tea
<diamond> zul: aye. done that twice today. just get twitchy about turning up late for these -)
<Amaranth> yay, i finally made it to a meeting
<JaneW> msg from doko: today, I am unable to attend the meeting, in fact I have problems to attend the meeting on Tuesdays until the end of June (from 16:30 UTC to 21:30 UTC) on a regular basis. In the past we did speak about having other time lines for the meeting, or at least changing time lines. Could this be a topic for today's meeting or can we change meeting times for the TBM from week to week?
<JaneW> hi maion
<JaneW> oops hi Kamion ;)
<Keybuk> that's an impressive typo
* Keybuk teaches JaneW about tab-completion
* JaneW is very impressed with everybody updating their Breezy Goals - Thanks
<Kamion> JaneW: since only one of the TB members appears to be here this week, I think this week might be a bad time to discuss changing the schedule
<JaneW> Keybuk: I am slow on the uptake with that one, but I am getting there
<JaneW> Kamion: ok, understood
<jbailey> Kamion: It's been discussed a number of times, hasn't it?  Doesn't it just need to be implemented? =)
<Keybuk> silbs and cvd tend to be online if they're within bread-roll distance of sabdfl
<Keybuk> and they're not
<JaneW> doko: had some other requests, shouls I mail them, or spool here?
<Kamion> jbailey: that was for the CC I suspect
<Keybuk> jbailey: it was discussed and implemented for CC, but not TB
<Kamion> which tends to attract more non-member participation
<Kamion> well, s/attract/require/
<JaneW> cvd is out for dinner tonight, nowhere near sabdfl
<Keybuk> anyway
<Keybuk> 2000UTC
<JaneW> how do I turn loggin on in xchat?
<Keybuk> good evening everyone
<Amaranth> JaneW: Settings->Preferences, choose logging
<Keybuk> mdz is spending the week dead for tax purposes, so I'm driving tonight
<smurfix> JaneW: Preferences => Logging
<lamont> JaneW: settings -> preferenences->logging
<Keybuk> but as we haven't had one of these in a little while, it seemed worth doing despite the fact there's just me
<jbailey> Keybuk: Ah scott, there's no such thing as "just you" =)
<JaneW> lamont/smurfix:  thanks
<Keybuk> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Kamion> the agenda seems to be mostly a holdover from the last time
* lamont isn't sure what preferenences is though... :-)
<dholbach> Kamion: i'm no holdover, but from what i heard you're in no state to decide tonight, right?
<astharot> my name is wrong
<Amaranth> before we start, does anything think it'd be bad to put a notice in the #ubuntu topic about not upgrading breezy for awhile?
<Amaranth> err, anyone
<astharot> GeradoDiGiacomo -> Gerardo :)
<Keybuk> as neither mdz or sabdfl are here, I think we'll have to postpone both dholback-for-main and astharot-for-motu until the next meeting
<Kamion> dholbach: you're also already an uploader to main
<ogra> is he ?
<dholbach> Kamion: i am?
<Kamion> at least assuming dh@mailempfang.de is you?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> ah no... seb128 uploaded for me
<Kamion> oh, no, I'm looking at the wrong file. Never mind.
<dholbach> it's ok for me to bug seb all the time ;-)
* seb128 slaps dholbach 
<amu> :)
* dholbach hugs seb128 :-)=
<elmo> Kamion: it's the keyring that matters
<Kamion> elmo: yeah, I worked that out
<Keybuk> elmo: is dholbach in the keyring? :p
<Kamion> no
<elmo> Keybuk: in the upload-to-main one? no
<elmo> but, FWIW, I think he should be
<ogra> yeah
* fabbione thumbs up
<Keybuk> yeah, I have no problem either, but without at least mdz or sabdfl, we can't act on that today
* dholbach bows to all of you, thanks
<seb128> dholbach: they don't like you :/
<seb128> ;)
* Amaranth thinks an exception should be made for the guy that keeps universe rolling ;)
<Keybuk> Are there any seed change proposals?  That shouldn't be postponed anymore
<Kamion> I'd suggest an out-of-sequence meeting to take care of the MaintainerCandidates backlog, at some point
<ogra> mono
<dholbach> Kamion: i already moved some of the guys that repeatedly didnt show up at the cc meetings
<dholbach> to "needs to show up again" .-)
<Keybuk> was mono not discussed at UDU?
<Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/searchwiki?source=search&expr=SeedProposals&submit=Search
<tseng|work> it was approved at udu, yes
<tseng|work> pitti approved today
<Kamion> unfortunately we haven't denoted those already done for hoary, which confuses matters
<ogra> Keybuk, yep
<Kamion> FWIW, there will probably not be a seed freeze for Breezy
<Keybuk> ok, so that can have TB blessing if required
<tseng|work> it will be harder to move mono right now if I cant be approved to upload it until next TB
<ogra> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/Mono
<Kamion> because it didn't really happen properly for Warty or Hoary, and we don't seem to have suffered unduly as a result
<Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, and doesn't seem to take into account Base vs Standard now ?
<Kamion> there've been no proposals for Standard, because not enough people have realised it exists yet
<Kamion> basically those proposals haven't been maintained since Mataro or so
<Keybuk> indeed, do you want to clean those pages up?  good!  well volunteered! :)
<Kamion> so it's probably worth discussing those seed changes that arose from UDU specs, but beyond that worry about them when people bug us
<Keybuk> ok, are the right people here?
<Kamion> well, anyone who has a spec that requires new packages in main, speak up. :-)
<ogra> mono for main would also involve tseng upload rights to main, so we'll have to defer that i guess
<Kamion> I'm guessing desktop folk have a bunch
<elmo> does someone want to volunteer to clean up those proposals?
<elmo> a lot of them are obsolete already
<mjg59> Kamion: LaptopMission is likely to, but I don't have a good idea what yet
<Kamion> elmo: I'll go through and at least remove the ones we've done after this meeting
<thom> NetworkManager and PowerManagementConfiguration certainly will
<ogra> Kamion, gnome-power-manager will be a new one
<Keybuk> thom: do you know what?
<thom> uh, NetworkMagic. PDASupport may well do, BluetoothSupport will do 
<thom> Keybuk: only for NM
<ogra> GraphicalConfigTools too
<jbailey> Kamion: EarlyUserspace will
<thom> Keybuk: i rather suspect udevraces will, too
<thom> fasterboot will
<Keybuk> tseng|work: can you add yourself to the appropriate agendas for main upload if you wish?
<ogra> Ubuntuexpress will :)
<tseng|work> Keybuk: ok. for some reason i thought ogra did it for today
<jbailey> Kamion: I can't promise that FormalTestPlans won't.  buntu is also in the "who knows?" category.
<Kamion> ok, I'm not sure "will" is necessary for this meeting; concrete packages that are already ready to go in would be good to sort out, though
<Keybuk> thom: ok, so NetworkMagic; what packages need promoting?
<Kamion> ?
<thom> Keybuk: networkmanager, networkmanager-gnome, dhcdbd; none of which are uploaded yet so ignore me :P
<jbailey> klibc is in and could use promoting.
<Keybuk> klibc?
<lamont> Keybuk: that's the kde version of gnome's libc. :-)
* lamont hides
<amu> ehe
<Keybuk> lamont: that's what I was worrying :p
* lamont truthfully has NFC
<Keybuk> klibc sounds more like something that should be pulled into main by things that depend on it ...
<Keybuk> (we don't seed glibc)
<ajmitch> klibc is only used in the initramfs, right?
<jbailey> Keybuk: Yes, that would work.
<jbailey> ajmitch: Right.
<Kamion> we do seed initrd-tools; we could pre-approve initramfs-tools
<Keybuk> is it even written yet? :)
<jbailey> Yes, hjas been since January.
<jbailey> It needs to be more fully developped, so it hasn't gone in, though.
<Keybuk> ok, we'll defer that until the next one I think
<jbailey> I could upload the bit that will boot off a harddrive or do nfsroot anytime, though.
<Keybuk> any other packages ?
<Keybuk> ok, carrying on ...
<Keybuk> any other business?
<Amaranth> short meeting :)
<ajmitch> no quorum
<Keybuk> Amaranth: it's about this point that someone mentions something controversial, and we all settle in for the night
* Amaranth tries to think of something
* JaneW yawns
<JaneW> ... well we could updates on the breezy goals?
* JaneW looks hopeful...
<seb128> again? :)
<thom> JaneW: they've only been going a week!
<Keybuk> sure, Jane, you can lead this bit :p
<Kamion> (ok, I've cleaned up the seed proposals a bit now)
<Amaranth> Oh, that reminds me. The MenuEditor goal seems to be covered by Smeg.
<JaneW> thom/seb128 yes I know
<JaneW> and thanks everyone for updating the statuses, I am very impressed
<dholbach> ExpandingUniverse will hopefully never stop :-)
<JaneW> Amaranth: eeeuw!
<seb128> Amaranth: I'm packaging gnome-menus 2.11.2 atm which has a menueditor
<jbailey> JaneW: Updating the colours sucks.  Is there anyway to have that be automatic? =)
<seb128> no need for an another one for the moment
<seb128> the GNOME official one should be fine :)
<JaneW> jbailey: not sure, but if you type in the word I will augtomatically do the colour bit
<JaneW> does that help?
<ajmitch> Amaranth: you did a good job with the one you wrote :)
<Amaranth> JaneW: Smeg == Simple Menu Editor for GNOME == http://www.realistanew.com/projects/smeg/ :)
<Amaranth> JaneW: I know it's a bad word too, that's kinda the point. ;)
<JaneW> Amaranth: oh, well that changes things ;)
<Amaranth> seb128: Ah, I thought that was just a PoC.
<seb128> no
<Kamion> JaneW: MountingHDDFilesystems seems to have been left out of the table
<jbailey> JaneW: It's not that much work for me to change it at the same time, and a silly amount of work for you to track it, so that doesn't make sense.
<seb128> that's an "simple" editor ... like GNOME is a "simple" desktop
<JaneW> Kamion: should I add it? .. and what priority
<Amaranth> seb128: From the sound of it the one in gnome-menus is going to be simple feature-wise so there is still a niche for doing more advanced things
<Kamion> JaneW: it's on the UDU wiki, marked as high priority there
<JaneW> ok, I'll put it in high then
<Kamion> thanks
<seb128> Amaranth: right, but we probably want to play with the GNOME one before discussing other options
<seb128> universe has plenty of place for others ones :)
<dholbach> seb128: hahaaa :-)
<Amaranth> hehe
* seb128 hugs dholbach 
<Amaranth> universe has room for one, mine ;)
* tseng|work vetoes your app
<tseng|work> oops.
<dholbach> seb! :-)
* Amaranth kills tseng|work and hides the body
<Keybuk> JaneW: all done?
<Kamion> Does the TB need to sign off on the complete list of goals there, or just the major feature goals?
<JaneW> Kamion: will you be the lead?
<Kamion> JaneW: yes
<Keybuk> I don't think the TB needs to sign off on anything ... we resolve disputes
<Kamion> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/techboard/ suggests otherwise :)
<Kamion> "Ubuntu Release Feature Goals"
<Amaranth> btw, should i put a notice in the #ubuntu topic about holding off on upgrading breezy for awhile?
* ajmitch wonders what naughty things he did to finally get assigned to FontHandling :)
<Keybuk> oh, yeah, I guess that kinda counts
<Kamion> Amaranth: go ahead
<ajmitch> Amaranth: isn't there a note there about "Don't use breezy" ?
<JaneW> Kamion: is it in drafting or pending?
<Amaranth> ajmitch: nope
<Kamion> please let's have general development discussion on #ubuntu-devel rather than here
<Amaranth> ajmitch: oh, there it is
<JaneW> ajmitch: you said something like I almost want to volunteer - which is the closest I got to getting a volunteer :P
<Kamion> so the top priority items on the BreezyGoals list look analogous to what we used to call Feature Goals
<ajmitch> JaneW: alright :)
<JaneW> guys we also need to get Milestones for the TOP priority items
<jbailey> JaneW: Should milestones generally be listed in the spec pages, or do you want them under BreezyGoals somewhere?
<JaneW> since they are the most crucial we need to be able to track progress and various checkpoints along the way, to make sure they are progressing smothly and on schedule.
<JaneW> jbailey: for high, med and low in the sepc pages only, for TOP mdz wants them browkn down the the table, so he can see at a glance how we are doing
<dholbach> today i don't like 1) firefox and 2) nautilus *GRRR*
* lamont can't recall ever liking nautilus...
<Keybuk> JaneW: so, do you want to go down the list one-by-one?
<JaneW> well firstly does anyone here have contact with the Edubuntu guys?
<JaneW> I have heard nothing from them, and they haven't responded to e-mails yet either.
<dholbach> jeff elkner is busy on the mailing lists, isnt he?
<JaneW> there's no going-in status update from them (or mako) yet.
<ogra> dholbach, which one -users ? 
<dholbach> ogra: i thought i read some mail of his today
<dholbach> ogra: yes
<JaneW> dholbach: shrug, I can't seem to get hold of him
* ogra cant recall his name
<Keybuk> LaptopMission, mjg59, thom?
<thom> Keybuk: basically, laptopmission is "get lots of laptops, test them". not sure how we milestone that
<Keybuk> can there be a "Keybuk's laptop works" milestone? ;)
<Kamion> Edubuntu> it seems to me that "get ThinClientIntegration done early" is the most important milestone
<JaneW> thom: hrm, can you put a few lines of progress and intended nex steps are, so mdz can understand without having to contact you? Please.
<thom> JaneW: ok, i'll talk to matthew tomorrow and do something
<JaneW> thom: thanks
<Keybuk> OEMInstaller, kamion? Mithrandir?
<Kamion> I think the milestones there are roughly:
<Kamion>   * get prototype firstboot up and running
<Kamion>   * prototype OEM test mode
<JaneW> in fact that applies to all. Anyone, but esp ppl like ndz and sabdfl should get a good idea of the status and progress of Breezy by checking out this page, so the aim is to update status as it changes and put in a line or 2 in the notes each week so ppl can see what's happening.
<Kamion>   * package up neatly
<Kamion>   * profit
<JaneW> s/ndz/mdz
<Kamion> but that's a bit too rough still :)
<thom> Kamion: i want a cut of milestone 4
<Keybuk> I'm guessing you're still at milestone 0 ? :)
<Kamion> let's say prototype of firstboot in three weeks, and we'll see how it looks from there?
<Kamion> that's the hardest bit
<JaneW> what's James H's IRC nick please?
<Kamion> JaneW: jamesh
<JaneW> heh
<Keybuk> ok
<Keybuk> ThinClientIntegration, I'm guessing we need Jim or mdz for that again
<Keybuk> so LaunchpadIntegration, seb128?
<Kamion> jbailey: can you speak to ThinClientIntegration at all?
<seb128> what about it?
<Kamion> a lot of it's your stuff
<jbailey> Kamion: Not really.  I'm only involved as far as the earlyuserspace and making sure that I handle whatever nfsroot/swap over nbd cases come up./
<Keybuk> seb128: update on progress, planned milestones, etc.
<Kamion> jbailey: right, but those are early requirements, I think; do you have an idea how long it will take for EarlyUserspace to be usable?
<Kamion> and update on progress
<seb128> Keybuk: no change this week, need to speak with kiko for the launchpad part
<jbailey> Kamion: Basic usability and in the archive is about a week.  I'll post a call for testers shortly on my hacked udev to make sure it works, and then we're ready to go.
<JaneW> seb128,: jamesh has been assigned to that
<seb128> ok, so I'll speak with him soon
<seb128> thanks
<jbailey> Kamion: Then kernel package changes.  Hopefully in the same timeframish.
<Kamion> jbailey: ok, thanks
<Keybuk> JaneW: shall we go down the High Priority too?
<JaneW> Keybuk: not necessarily - IF we can get ppl to comit to regular updates...
<Kamion> since not everyone's here, it might be better to send out a clear note saying what's expected in terms of progress and milestone updates
<JaneW> so what's it going to  be? Talk now or type later?
<JaneW> Kamion: nod sure
<Keybuk> an e-mail is better, as anything said here most people will miss
<JaneW> I am happy to receive e-mail /IRc updates too, and I can do the wiki editing
<JaneW> apparently the agenda for the next meeting needs to be set now...
<Keybuk> yup
<JaneW> when will that be, 2 weeks time?
<Kamion> do all the stuff you weren't quorate for this time? :)
<Keybuk> 2 weeks time, same time
<Kamion> can I repeat the suggestion for an out-of-schedule meeting to take care of some maintainers?
* JaneW looks up new word...
<Kamion> would that be manageable?
<Keybuk> is there any reason we can't do it at the next meeting?
<Kamion> was thinking mostly of urgent ones like people whose acceptance for main blocks packages from being promoted to main
<Keybuk> when's mdz back?
<Kamion> 23rd, I believe
<JaneW> Keybuk: yes on Monday next week
<Keybuk> could do it prior to the next CC meeting?
<Kamion> which is 24th at 22:00
<Kamion> (UTC)
<Keybuk> indeed
<Kamion> so 20:00?
<Keybuk> could do 24th at 20:00 ?
<Keybuk> snap
<JaneW> gads 22:00! (12am)
<diamond> JaneW: beats the pants off 5am which was the last CC meeting for me ,-)
* JaneW orders melatonin
<ogra> heh
* jbailey slips some speed to JaneW
<JaneW> jbailey: awesome!
<Keybuk> ok, JaneW can you send a mail to mdz and appropriate mailing lists to announce the extra meeting for 20:00 UTC on the 24th
<JaneW> ok np
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:dholbach] : Tue 24 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda || Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<JaneW> Keybuk: can you put it in the # topic in the mean time?
<JaneW> oh thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Keybuk] : Tue 24 May 20:00 UTC: Tech Board -- review http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates || Tue 24 May 22:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda || http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar || This is NOT #ubuntu, nor #ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> should be
<Keybuk> ok, thanks everybody
<JaneW> thanks
<dholbach> thanks
<diamond> tea anyone?
<ogra> wow, only 1h
<JaneW> yipee
<ogra> thats short for TB
<ajmitch> that was nice & quick :)
<JaneW> more than 5 hours of sleep is possible tonight still
<dholbach> Tuesday 31 May 2005 at 2000 UTC   ?
<dholbach> that's on TechnicalBoardAgenda
<Keybuk> yeah, next TB meeting proper is in two weeks
<Kamion> dholbach: that's still the next one in the regular schedule
<Keybuk> however there's a special meeting in one week to _just_ catch up with the maintainer backlog
<dholbach> ahhhhh ok, i see
<ogra> :)
<dholbach> sorry, must have missed it
<Keybuk> you probably don't want to miss it, as your name's in that list <g>
<dholbach> made a note :-)
<JaneW> dholbach: and you;ll get an email reminder too ;)
<dholbach> JaneW: thank you :-)))
<dholbach> GRRRRR FIREFOX
<Keybuk> dholbach: blame the maintainer
<thom> dholbach: ephy seems somewhat, but not entirely less crashy
<ogra> dont browser
<thom> i blame gcc
<ogra> -r
<Keybuk> I blame lame statues in Barcelona
* dholbach tries epiphany
<JaneW> oh one thinkgmako is listed as the lead for LanguageSupportPackages 
<JaneW> is that appropriate
<thom> Keybuk: i blame dpkg, actually
<JaneW> and who can be listed as second on that?
<Keybuk> thom: which is the author's fault
<thom> Keybuk: more precisely, 1.13, which seems to have broken debuild
<Kamion> JaneW: probably is, mako has historically been really good at that sort of thing
<Keybuk> really? neat
* Keybuk wonders how it did that
<dholbach> thom: epiphany crashes too, nice :-)
<JaneW> dholbach: what you trying to do?
<dholbach> somebody did a proper, a complete job :-)
<seb128> blame firefox :)
<thom> bah, housemates cooking. making me very hungry
<ogra> gtk ?
<dholbach> JaneW: edit the wiki calendar
<thom> lets just blame glibc and have done with it
<seb128> he tries to play with thom
<lamont> thom: gtk
<Keybuk> 1.13 does break things that check wether DEB_*_GNU_SYSTEM_TYPE is "linux"
<Kamion> iz gtk ... damnit, beaten
<Keybuk> uh, DEB_*_GNU_SYSTEM
<dholbach> seb128: you'll get the backtrace for epiphany :-)
<seb128> dholbach: that's probably firefox crashing
<seb128> I'll reassign to thom ;)
<dholbach> seb128: i'm sure it is
<JaneW> dholbach: firefox was crashing all the time for me, until I uninstalled all plugins
<thom> dholbach: yeah, it is. i was trying to work out why dh_strip isn't playing ball and giving me debug packages before the meeting
<thom> JaneW: now it crashes all the time with no plugins (in breezy)
<JaneW> so now I have no flash or sounds in websites, but at least I can work
<dholbach> thom: seb128 could help you with some cdbs magic ;-)
<JaneW> thom: hmm ... progress ;-/
<thom> dholbach: fortunately firefox isn't afflicted
<thom> ;P
<thom> JaneW: it's great. really
<JaneW> anyway tomorrow all. Night
<ogra> night JaneW 
<dholbach> good night JaneW 
<thom> night jane
<mvo> night JaneW 
* smurfix waves
* dholbach wonders what thom would have contributed to the UbuntuAndUpstreams BOF wrt to Mozilla - baseball bats? clubs? :-)
<thom> small thermonuclear device
<dholbach> seb128: what did we figure out was the reason i got neverending backtraces?
<seb128> dholbach: ?
<dholbach> i don't remember either
<seb128> what are you talking about?
<Kamion> should this be -> #ubuntu-devel?
<dholbach> Kamion: yeah
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-25
<Simira> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hi simira
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-26
<herve> do we?
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> HELLOO MOTUs
<dholbach> who of the MOTU crew or MOTU interests is here?
<ogra> me
<dholbach> me too
<dholbach> nice :-)
* herve waves
<dholbach> hey tseng|work 
<ogra> hey tseng|work 
<tseng|work> heya daniel
<dholbach> can you think of anything else not put on MOTUMeeting?
<ogra> next meeting date
<tseng|work> hi ogra, herve
<dholbach> it's on there :-)
<ogra> we should put it there as a standard entry
<herve> hi tseng|work, seb128 
<seb128> Hi herve 
<ogra> dholbach, do you want to lead this time ?
<dholbach> ok... shall we just start from the top?
<ogra> as you like :)
<dholbach> ogra: ok, i'll take notes of it as well
<dholbach> 1) MOTUTeams - who's interested? What do we do? When do we start?
<ogra> we have logs ;)
<tseng|work> MOTUMONO!
<tseng|work> we rock so hard.
<dholbach> ok... i think we REALLY need teams soon and make the idea public
<herve> I think I'm already in python & zope teamns
<ogra> yeah
<herve> (teams)
<dholbach> and gather interested people
<herve> with ajmitch & doko where appropriate
<dholbach> who can have heads up, squash bugs and whatever
<herve> I think teams are important for running projects
<herve> because squashing bugs... we already do it
<dholbach> i want to fix a date with koke, seb128 and jdub for the MOTUGNOME team
<dholbach> and collect ideas
<dholbach> and announce them to the public real soon now
<dholbach> because poor seb128 is overrun by the amount of bugs
<ogra> dholbach, oh, the bugday is missing from the agenda, i'd like to talk about it at the end...
<dholbach> ogra: ok, if you'd put it on
<dholbach> can you think of stuff we should do to make this process of team building fluent and rocking?
<ogra> if mozilla lets me log in without crash ;P
<dholbach> :-)
<herve> dholbach, what kind of tools?
<dholbach> tools in what sense?
<dholbach> i already wrote http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto, but i'm not sure, if that's all we'd have to do to get going
<herve> to assist the work
<tseng|work> if you have an idea for a tool
<tseng|work> write it up please
<dholbach> it'd be lovely if we could drag in the talented, patient and gifted people into the motu team
<tseng|work> i am getting pretty good at webapps in php/mysql
<tseng|work> and shell scripting
<tseng|work> ogra rocks at python
<ogra> heh, i'm still learning :)
<dholbach> but there are things that each team needs to sort out individually
<dholbach> i mean there are loads of tasks, like enhancing, fixing, ...
<dholbach> what ideas do you have to get teams going?
<dholbach> you can start with the ideas for your team
<dholbach> they could serve as a good example for all of them
<dholbach> or is it too early/late for a braindump? :-)
<ogra> we just do it .... in the mono team
<dholbach> don't you plan to "go live", make it public? attract the masses? :-)
<herve> ogra stole my words
<ogra> but there is no extensive planning, meeting or coordination except what we talk on IRC
<herve> yo \sh!
<\sh> just in time
<\sh> woke up 3 mins before start
<dholbach> from what i know, you could really do with some additional hands on deck, right?
<ogra> but mono is a special case, i think with the amount of packages we ont need more then 3 ppl
<ogra> but testers ar fine
<dholbach> but for fixing? getting new stuff in? the nice and cozy feeling in the team?
<ogra> sure, but there are other teams that are in a more worse state
<dholbach> of course
<ogra> or havent even started to exist
<dholbach> i just wanted to ask everybody "as a team member"
<dholbach> and collect ideas and plans
<dholbach> to make it as easy as possible for everyone
<ogra> ure
<dholbach> i already wrote http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTeamHowto, but i'm not sure, if that's all we'd have to do
<herve> sadly, the python and zope teams don't really exist, so no experience to share here
<dholbach> herve: any plans to make it happen?
<ogra> yeah, take the lea
<ogra> d
<herve> I wonder for the need, first
<dholbach> there are loads of packages the python team could take care of :-)
<dholbach> and steer whatever is to be done
<dholbach> we could even divide UniverseCandidates into sections
<dholbach> and get stuff in on a team basis
<dholbach> ok, if you feel this is the wrong topic or there's nothing to discuss yet, shall we just proceed?
<\sh> i think it's a nice idea
<\sh> and a good one :)
<dholbach> to proceed?
<ogra> dholbach, first target should be to get more people in, teams will start to form themselves (see siretart and Burgundavia.... )
<dholbach> ogra: of course, but i think we should announce the building of teams on all of our mailing lists with a variety of ideas and plans to attract people and show them a place where they could fit into
<herve> dholbach, if we need to coordinate work between doko, ajmitch, d3vic3 and myself, then the team will exist
<dholbach> not dicatingly but just to show what's going on
<herve> for now, we just handle work as it happens
<\sh> ogra: well...I think the most difficult thing is to get the people in anyways. they need to know where they should start
<\sh> there r a lot of people working for kde stuff, gnome stuff, but don't bother to take workloads from others..(new packages, fixing packages etc.)
<dholbach> i agree with you, \sh 
<\sh> to address them we should have things like teams settled down. and yes, right now, everybody takes everything like it comes :) how many motus are there at all :)
<dholbach> \sh: just not enough :-)
<\sh> i can only speak for me right now, cause I experienced the problems to start with "something". 
<ogra> 16 are on the wikipage... but thats not up to date afaik
<ogra> \sh, there is always a transition to start with ;)
<\sh> "with what do I start? new packages, fixing bugs in packages etc. pp"
<ogra> and afterwards you will feel useles... and just form a team :)
<\sh> ogra: but not everybody has a nice "pusher" like u :)
<dholbach> i think promoting a team spirit would help people a lot
<ogra> dholbach, go ahead, i already wrote several mails to the ML about the teams.... the response was always very silent....
* ogra wonders if its his writing....
<dholbach> ogra: i will
<dholbach> ogra: no it isnt
<\sh> to explain what i mean: for many people there is no such thing like a "tutoring device" like ogra was for me, or the rest of my experiences in OSS at all
<dholbach> but we need visions, plans and ideas to let the message sink into people
<ogra> \sh, there is.... 
<ogra> \sh, thats what the cannel is for ;)
<dholbach> "fix a random bug" - "take care of a random package" is not the warm welcoming feeling we want to give to people
<\sh> dholbach: that's what I mean
<\sh> and we know all, there r people who r not shy and start working on "something" like ivoks
<ogra> many of them come with NEW packages... we should encourage more to go for bugfixes
<tseng|work> do people who can fix bugs need a warm feeling?
<dholbach> tseng|work: yes they do :-)
<ogra> since starting with a NEW package from scratch is not easy...
<ogra> tseng|work, dont you ?
<tseng|work> i fixed a bug in tcl binding linking in rrdtool
<dholbach> to be honest, i didn't want to join the #ubuntu-devel crowd at first, because i was a bit afraid, i "couldnt do it"
<tseng|work> i did not feel "warm"
<tseng|work> :)
<dholbach> and i needed a bit of persuasion :-)
<\sh> ogra: e.g. cxx transitions .. i was a little bit scared to try something new for me :) but I'll tried and there r others who r not like me "to try" they need a guiding hand (this is also an idea for a team ;)))
<ogra> tseng|work, because you didnt fix it for ubuntu ?
<\sh> "the ubuntu work primary school"
<ogra> \sh, i dont say teams are bad (in fact i was the creator of the wiki page) i just think it will work by itself...
<dholbach> would it help, if we announced "team founding meetings"?
<tseng|work> ogra: i fixed it in gentoo.. its not broken in ubuntu atm
<ogra> people come in and look for a place.... 
<ogra> tseng|work, you see, thats why ;)
<tseng|work> k
<dholbach> ogra: you're right, it will happen - nobody will be forced into it
<ogra> a fixed ubuntu package has a builtin "warm feeing factor"
<herve> dholbach, the harder is to make people come into #ubuntu-motu, then we can guide them where appropriate
<ogra> dholbach, thats not what i meant...forced :)
<dholbach> ogra: of course
<dholbach> herve: what do you mean?
<herve> nothing special
<herve> just to make people involved
<herve> not necessarly make them sign in a team
<\sh> herve: that is :) one of the problem all projects have
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> the feeling of "there's something happening" and "people instantly got things done" is what we need to promote
<dholbach> and ideas and plans can help with that
<dholbach> not everybody fights his way into the python team on day 1
<\sh> we need more PR and marketing...buttons, caps, cups, mousepads ;)
<dholbach> hahahaaa :-)
<dholbach> that's topic 4)
<dholbach> ;-)
<\sh> well, it sounds funny :)
<dholbach> ok, shall we draw a line here?
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> ok
<ogra> you make an announcement ?
<dholbach> 2)  current status of things 
<herve> \sh, thongs too? :-)
<dholbach> herve: yes!!! :-)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> ogra: i will take care of it
<ogra> yeah, its getting summer
<\sh> herve: sure why not for hot MOTU chicks ;)
<dholbach> do you feel things in general should change?
<dholbach> how do you feel towards ubuntu, motu and the universe atm?
<herve> fine!
<ogra> i feel very small facing the universe :)
<herve> except I'd like malone would be ready
<ogra> AND ITS EXPANDING !!
* dholbach nods towards herve 
<dholbach> herve: shall we fix a date for another meeting in ... say ... 2 weeks?
<ogra> give it time... at least searching works...
<dholbach> herve: just to insist on certain items on the list and hear about their status?
<herve> dholbach, as you wish, I have no special requirement atm
<dholbach> any other opinions?
<herve> hmm...
<ogra> let brad do his job, i think he has the list and has the prios
<dholbach> of course, ogra, i won't be a pain in the neck
<ogra> just check it from time to time
<herve> ogra, I don't put pressure on him, just share my feeling
<dholbach> i think i'll ask bradb to give me a status update in 2 weeks - i'll report to you
<dholbach> everybody ok with that?
<ogra> 2 weeks
<ogra> isnt that the estimated 1.0 release date anyway ?
<dholbach> i thought it was a bit later
<\sh> one question more: who is in charge to upload anyways? I think we should point out who can be pinged for those things at all. 
<\sh> there is little information about this...;)
<dholbach> \sh: all motus can
<ogra> 6th or 9th of june ? i'm not sure
<dholbach> ogra: i'll ask him
<ogra> yep
<\sh> dholbach: u have an updated list of motus? i could do some update on this page
<ogra> dholbach, we have a meeting anyway, after this one ;)
<dholbach> \sh's question leads to the next point which is related to 2):    3) feedback on current processes
<dholbach> hrmbl i can't seem to be able to open the MOTU wiki page
<ogra> heh, get a i386 :)
<dholbach> \sh: i think the list is complete
<ogra> was herve the last one ?
<dholbach> herve and tritium
<ogra> oh, sure, there were no TB meetings...
<dholbach> "feedback on current processes"
<dholbach> we have a lot of processes: NewMotu, NewPackages, MorguePackages, ReviewStuff ... - do you think we need to change stuff?
<ogra> i dont like the wiki lists :) (as long as ff doenst allow searching in textinput fields)
<herve> I think we need better tools than editing long wiki pages
<\sh> I think the "NewPackages" and "ToReview" process via wiki is quite weired
<herve> I think this issue is clear :-)
<\sh> using malone or bugzilla is making more sense here
<dholbach> herve: i think everybody would be delighted to hear plans of you on this one
<ogra> probably a task for the zope/python team.... write a list managingt component for zope ;)
<herve> I thought of a workflow driven application for reviews
<dholbach> me included :-)
<dholbach> oh yes
<dholbach> that sounds rocking
<ogra> isnt malone supposed to be exactly this ?
<\sh> tseng said that he was fixing things in gentoo :)
<\sh> and new stuff will go into bugzilla (in gentoo)
<dholbach> can we open bugs on UNKNOWN stuff?
<\sh> will be reviewed by the "devs"
<\sh> and after reviewing it goes into the tree
<dholbach> we could switch the review-thing over to malone
<seb128> don't use a bug tracker for packages reviews
<ogra> dholbach, not sure...
<dholbach> seb128: we have proposed patches for c++ stuff in bugzilla atm
<seb128> the bug flow is important enough
<dholbach> seb128: that got me thinking
<\sh> so malone/bugzilla is a good way also as workflow engine for reviewing
<seb128> dholbach: imho you should really not use a bug tracker for that
<\sh> seb128: request tracker can make also sense
<seb128> these are not bugs
<dholbach> seb128: doesnt debian handle it the same way?
<seb128> better to use a mailing list 
<seb128> debian use the lists
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> ubuntu-motu@ was more or less denied
<herve> we won't have a mailing list?
<dholbach> some folks feel it would be too much of separation
<herve> seb128, yeah, "why debian would have *another* wiki engine!" :-)
<\sh> well, i would favour more a webtoolized application
<dholbach> seb128: mailing lists would be absolutely fine with me
<herve> dholbach, but we need offline communication too
<herve> I mean, asynchronous
<dholbach> a mailing list would be cool for that
<dholbach> we'd tell the guys to sign up for <whatever@lists.ubuntu.com> to get their review status
<ogra> hmm, why not web driven...
<dholbach> because it would need another bit of code that's not there yet
<ogra> just with a usable tool instead of a wiki....
<herve> ogra, it could be web driven with notifications in a list, rss, etc.
<seb128> dholbach: debian has http://bugs.debian.org/wnpp too
<\sh> RT
<ogra> herve, yep, thats what i thought of
<dholbach> seb128: that's what i meant
<Kamion> bugs.debian.org/wnpp is a bad hack
<\sh> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/
<seb128> dholbach: but the BTS doesn't handle the bugs the same way as bugzilla, ie: they is not list of bugs with that on the middle
<Kamion> it works, but it creaks
<herve> Kamion, only the result counts ;)-
<dholbach> Kamion: do you think a mailing list for package reviews (maybe on a yet-to-com MOTU lists) would be more feasible?
<\sh> a normal request tracker can do the work....email communication support, web driven, too and easy to adjust to send out jabber messages
<Kamion> sure, but if you're implementing something new you should learn from previous mistakes
<Kamion> dholbach: I don't really have an opinion, just replying to the debbugs thing
<seb128> dholbach: my concern is that bugs are not going to be handled on the middle of the bug flox
<seb128> flow
<dholbach> Kamion: ok
<Kamion> dholbach: (I'm not really here) it seems reasonable though
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> well, i think the problem is what priority has "new packages and/or reviewing (bugfixed packages)" 
<ogra> there are hundrets of webdriven ticketsystems....
<seb128> dholbach: if you want to be efficient on package review you need a way to make the distinction clear
<dholbach> ok, i can make another call on the MOTU list topic and add the need for review stuff (maybe only as an interim solution)
<herve> do someone listens to \sh's idea? :-)
<\sh> ogra: I used an example i'd use in the past
<dholbach> \sh: a high one
<ogra> \sh, both have high prio
<dholbach> seb128: i absolutely see your point
<dholbach> ok... how do you feel towards a mailing list until we have a webticket-system?
<dholbach> or review traffic on a mailing list
<herve> but reviewing bugfixes occurs when a bug has patch included?
<\sh> ok...thats cleared and are there any "review rules" at all, how the debian/ directory should be structurized? i mean, packaging is one thing, reviewing the other, it needs more wisdom to review then to package ;)
<Kamion> fwiw, elmo already uses RT internally for admin, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to set up another instance
<dholbach> \sh: i started ReviewingTips on the wiki, but it's far from complete
<ogra> \sh, there are rules.... un the NM guide
<ogra> in even
<Kamion> not that I'm volunteering other people's time or anything
<ogra> Kamion, RT, cool
<herve> ogra, and debian policy I guess? 
<ogra> yep
<Mithrandir> Kamion: setting up multiple queues is trivial.
<\sh> Kamion: it's a nice tool, and u need only one instance of RT to support different queues
<Kamion> \sh: that depends on firewall policy
<Kamion> the world cannot access @admins.warthogs.hbd.com, not even sure if they can get at that machine
<ogra> but setting up a world reachable one should be possible
<\sh> ok...there r policies outside the ubuntu space :) so we should make them as "standard reading" for newbies :)
<dholbach> i can investigate on that one, if you like the plan as a whole
<dholbach> the RT one, that is
<\sh> Kamion: ah I see right, i didn't know the infrastructure behind it
<ogra> \sh, rather help tseng writing the MOTU book ;)
<ogra> dholbach, RT is perfectlya what we need....
<\sh> ogra: :)
<dholbach> alright, i put it on my todo list
<ogra> dholbach, its a workflow dedicated ticket system
<dholbach> ok... do you feel there are any other processes we need to tweak or make comprehensible?
<\sh> "once there was a time, when the MOTUs came out of the dark, into the light...more then 1000 years last the piece in the Ubuntu Universe and the Masters are not tired to..." 
<ogra> \sh, yeah
<dholbach> :-)
<\sh> you see, I watched "Star Wars III" yesterday ;)
<ogra> ok, can we move on, dholbach and me have another meeting afterwards :)
<ogra> (in ~10mins)
<dholbach> arg
<dholbach> ff crashed again
<ogra> welcome to the club :)
<dholbach> t-shirts was the next?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> t-shirts, thongs and 1 litre coffee mugs
<dholbach> shall i send a mail to the whole crew where we call for other alternatives to the one design we have?
<ogra> i liked burgundavias design... (havent got the url)
<\sh> what design?
<herve> yes, I'd like to see it again
<ogra> \sh, i think he created a wikipage with it
<dholbach> ok... i will ping burgundavia about it again :-)
<\sh> It should make a nice flat stomach and it must be something like spiderman ;)
<dholbach> we should really make the t-shirt happen :-)
<ogra> yep
<herve> about merchandising
<dholbach> herve: hm?
<\sh> well...but a tshirt 
<herve> I want you to know french pay quite much for buying stuff in the usa
<herve> customs and the like
<\sh> i would propose something like a "fedora" (c) by redhat
<\sh> that was really a difference to other linux competitors 
<herve> and we may not be an exception :-)
<dholbach> herve: sabdfl offered the t-shirt shipping to the MOTU club - i will ask him, if he still likes the idea, when we have agreed on a design :-)
<herve> cool then :-)
<dholbach> ok, i will summon up burgundavia again and ask everybody if we there are additional ideas on it
<herve> coo... er? I don't know if it could include customs taxes
<dholbach> ogra: want to to introduce us to the fly flap day?
<ogra> yeah....
<herve> dholbach, about just the logo or some sentence on it?
<herve> animal crualty!
<ogra> THE UBUNTU FlyFlapDay !
<dholbach> herve: all of it :-)
<ogra> its a weekly summit where everybody iun the community shall help fixing bugs
<herve> well, it's just a bugfix sprint I guess :-)
<\sh> ogra: hmm?
<ogra> but it shall not be just another bugday
<ogra> we want to categorize bugs by the skill level you need to fix them
<ogra> there will be three categoies...
<ogra> 1. community bugs
<ogra> thats for the new kids on the block, that wna to help out or..
<dholbach> hahahaa.... :-)
<ogra> just want to see their favorite bugs fixed
<ogra> (trivial ones though)
<ogra> the second category shall be MOTU bugs
<\sh> "new kids?" what about me? "old farts"?
<\sh> anyway ;) 
<ogra> bugs hwere you need a decent skill level or have to know the basics of packaging etc
<ogra> the third part are the normal distro bugs tat are fixed by the distro team
<ogra> we will have a special bug channel for this and i'll write weekly announcements
* dholbach hugs ogra :-)
<herve> aren't we fly flapping everyday? :-)
<\sh> hmm....what about upstream bugs? are they included in 3)
<dholbach> herve: publicity! :-)
<ogra> the bugs will be listed on a wikipage ?? (or RT) 
<ogra> once a month we will do something special...
<ogra> the community has to vote for the BOTM
<\sh> ogra: wiki is here ok...cause RT needs special perms for resolving/closing
<\sh> ogra: and the bug itself should be in malone 
<ogra> \sh, its not about resolving/closing
<ogra> just about tracking the work thats been done for the voting
<\sh> ogra: that was for RT :)
<\sh> oh ok..then RT
<\sh> RT++
<ogra> ok, the BOTM will recieve merchandise of any kind from ubuntu, this is backed by canonical....
<\sh> what if one guy/gal will be every weeks no. 1?
<dholbach> ogra: what will we have to do? categorize those bugs? do we need to feed lists in a yet-to-have RT?
<ogra> (i also try to alk with mark about electing a BOTY who gets free sponsoring for a conference, but that may be to expensive)
<ogra> dholbach, i asked kiko about a special field in bugzilla/malone
<dholbach> and what about the categorizing stuff?
<dholbach> B = bug or bugsquasher?
<ogra> Bugfixer Of The Month
<dholbach> ok
<ogra> Bugfixer Of The Year
<dholbach> just to clarify :-)
<herve> dholbach, we're not sending merchandise to a bug :-)
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> ogra: ok, but what about the categorizing?
<dholbach> who will do it?
<ogra> dholbach, but anyway, we'll have to do the categorizing by ourselves.... i think this should happen while we do the first review of a bug
<dholbach> ah ok
<ogra> (i.e. while you are looking for duplicates etc)
<dholbach> ah ok
<ogra> since you have to touch it anyway
<dholbach> i like the idea very much
<\sh> and it can be quite good to encourage people to work for motu at all
<ogra> its very important to involve the community here .... so they get in tight contact with their devs
<ogra> and they are the ones that vote the BOTM
<dholbach> yes
<ogra> so both rely on each other :)
<dholbach> rocking! :)
<ogra> ok, thats the fly flap day :) you'll see the first announcement soon ...
<dholbach> i will not include this in the wrapup on the list
<\sh> and it's possible to encourage some local UGs to have meetings at these special days ;)
<dholbach> just drop a FlyFlapDay somewhere, to make people curious :)
<ogra> yeah
<dholbach> maybe it should be wiki.ubnutu.com/NoNameYet  ;)
<\sh> TheFreezer ;)
<ogra> fridge
<\sh> nono
<\sh> fridge is news site
<\sh> freezer is more scary ;)
<dholbach> ok... shall we now fix a new date and time?
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> 3 weeks from now?
<ogra> four weeks ? or do we need something earlier ?
<ogra> heh
<dholbach> maybe a different time?
<dholbach> to make sure our australian/.nz friends are here?
<\sh> 4 weeks should be ok, or?
<ogra> dholbach, so 5h later ? 
<ogra> or 6
<dholbach> that's 24:00 for us :-)
<ogra> yep
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> 19.06.05 22:00 UTC
<ogra> oki
<dholbach> could somebody with a not-upgraded firefox do that? ;-)
<dholbach> PLEASE :-)
<ogra> i'll do it from the other machine
<dholbach> on MOTUMeeting and Calendar :-)
<dholbach> kthxbye
* dholbach hugs ogra again
<ogra> (later.... lets meet salgado)
* ogra hugs dholbach too
<\sh> ok...thx for the meeting
<dholbach> thanks for joining us, herve, \sh and tseng|work :-)
<ogra> yeah
<\sh> cu around :) 
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-27
<Treenaks> whoa
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [+o thom]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-meeting [-o thom]  by thom
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-05-28
<Simira> Kamion: what is the state of the current CCAgenda? Somewhat outdated, or something?
<Kamion> Simira: looks like mostly last week's agenda - I was hoping mako would fix it up :)
<Simira> :)
<Simira> I added a LoCoTeamRunning-case, please don't remove that
<Kamion> Simira: ouch, please make that a new section or we'll be confused
<Kamion> e.g. "Agenda for next meeting"
<Simira> ok, but how do you know if someone has added their name to the list before or after the last meeting?
<Kamion> I don't
<Kamion> I think Corey Burger was on there for the last meeting, though, and he's the last ...
<Simira> ok
<Simira> Mission complete
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-22
<robitaille> @topic
<cbx33> @schedule london
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 17 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<Seveas> robitaille, you don't need to call @topic after each change - the bot picks them up automatically within an hour 
<robitaille> Seveas:  I know.  I was just playing around with it
<Yagisan> @schedule gmt+10
<Yagisan> @schedule GMT+10
<Yagisan> @schedule Australia/Sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 23:30: Xubuntu | 19 May 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 May 07:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 06:00: Technical Board | 24 May 23:30: Xubuntu
<GNAM> @schedule Italy
<GNAM> @schedule Italy/Rome
<GNAM> .
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 17 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu
<freeflying> @schedule Shanhai
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 17 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 17 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 04:00: Technical Board | 24 May 21:30: Xubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<cbx33> afternoon all
<cbx33> @schedule london
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: Current meeting: Edubuntu | 17 May 14:30: Xubuntu | 18 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 22:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 21:00: Technical Board | 24 May 14:30: Xubuntu
<spacey> hi
<JaneW> **Reminder** Edubuntu meeting in +- 2 mins
<spacey> sorry that i wasn't able to attend meetings last month, somehow it wasn't possible 
<flint> Good Morning I got the schedule messed up last week and was away from my terminal at 16:00 EST
<JaneW> hi all
<ogra> flint, heh, for guys like you we made up that new schedule :)
<JaneW> hi spacey
<flint> ogra, you software wenies are just out to confuse us old fools :^)
<JaneW> ok is everyone here?
<JaneW> ok meeting notes are an issue
<cbx33> Yes,
<flint> JaneW, Good Morning 
<cbx33> I was going to bring that up
<ogra> JaneW, i heard we'll get some kind of newsletter ?
<cbx33> I'm working on the new wiki fromt page
<JaneW> I would love to have someone voluteer to help with posting a meeting synopsis somewhere
<JaneW> ogra: possibly...
<JaneW> ogra: TBD
<cbx33> and I wanted to include meeting notes
<ogra> JaneW, that should just be aq fleshed out version of the meeting notes then i think
<JaneW> I find it hard to do all the talking/typing, and summarise in note format too
* cbx33 's hand is wavering to volunteer
<JaneW> cbx33: done
<cbx33> but thinking about all the doc writing I still have to do
<cbx33> oh what the hell
<cbx33> sign me up
<JaneW> cbx33: you are it
<cbx33> thought so
<JaneW> cbx33: we love you
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> seeing as I'm doing the wiki front makes sense I think
<ogra> welcome our new official edubuntu secretary :)
<JaneW> note to all if something needs to be noted pls try to explicitely mention it to cbx33 so he doesn;t have to wade through everyone
<cbx33> can I just mention we have a YouthLUG member today dave-YL is joining us for the meeting :D
<JaneW> something like cbx33 please make a note of that ^^
<JaneW> hi dave-YL 
<dave-YL> hi
<cbx33> he's on work experience with me in the office so I thought I'd bring him along :D
<JaneW> cbx33: does that sound ok? re the explicit note requests?
<cbx33> show him how cool the edubuntu gang are :p
<cbx33> JaneW: that sounds great
<JaneW> I found that helped when I was doing minutes (in my youth)
<spacey> YouthLUG?
<cbx33> :p
<flint> dave-YL, Hi how youthful is youthful?
* ogra puts on his ice suit
<JaneW> so instead of recording a 2 hours debate, just get the results down
<dave-YL> 14
<JaneW> ok back to the business at hand
<cbx33> indeed
<JaneW> Edubuntu
<JaneW> 15 days to RELEASE DAY
<cbx33> Yikes :p
<ogra> tech update ... not much, apart from artwork being final (usplash still arguable)
<JaneW> before we plan the party, are we ready
<cbx33> the homies have a crib :p
<JaneW> ogra: so artwork is in?
<ogra> amd64 was down to 1.3M oversizednedd last week, but is up to 3M again
<ogra> *ness
<JaneW> what's the issue with usplash?
<ogra> so i'll need to find something big to drop *again* 
<cbx33> ogra: are we goign to have to drop a package?
<ogra> sigh
<ogra> there is not much left on amd64
<ogra> i'm inclined to drop kstras to solve it once and for all
<ogra> *kstars
<cbx33> hmm, not good
<JaneW> ogra: why is and64 so much larger?
<spacey> binaries so much biggier on amd64?
<ogra> not mutch, but it sums up
<cbx33> ogra: is ther a possiblilty of just removing some of teh data files for kstars?
<JaneW> are the other arches at capacity?
<sladen> ogra: did /var/log/* getting cleared?  and do a du -sch on /usr/share/doc  
<ogra> i386 is exactly at 695M (max value)
<JaneW> yikes
<ogra> amd64 in sum is at 698
<JaneW> ogra: is it safe to fill it that much?
<ogra> sladen, on the CD ?
<ogra> JaneW, yep
<JaneW> ok good
<sladen> ogra: the LiveCD was not getting its logfiles cleared after creation
<ogra> its fine unless we slip over 695
<cbx33> sladen: i hear you down in soton tomorrow, really bummed I can't make it
<JaneW> ogra: you said usplash was arguable, what/who is arguing?
<ogra> sladen, ah, i dont care about live, we wont ship it
<flint> ogra, would it be a safe assumption that anyone running an AMD 64 has access to a DVD?
<cbx33> flint: I'd say not :p
<ogra> flint, sure, and the DVD is available, thats not the prob
<flint> ok then what?
<ogra> the prob is that if we dont have a working iso on release day, we wont have that arch at all
<ogra> a CD iso that is
<flint> a DVD iso would suffice for AMD 64 IMHO.
<JaneW> ogra: how when can you sort it all out?
<ogra> flint, we wont have a DVD iso if we dont have a CD
<JaneW> ogra: are all changes frozen now? so the size won't vary daily anymore...
<cbx33> i'd say go for the kstars drop
<ogra> JaneW, i'm doing it alongside with my last minute ubuntu bugwork
<JaneW> ok
<ogra> needs to be sorted until flight8 
<JaneW> how utilized is kstarts?
<flint> ogra, it was merely a thought... :^)
<JaneW> stars
<ogra> some MB
<JaneW> let's cut it if that's the best bet
<JaneW> but you may get complaints if it is popular and ppl can;t find it
<cbx33> people can alsways install it later
<ogra> kstars itself is quite small, but it puls in a huge amount of data
<JaneW> but I guess they can d/l it
<cbx33> JaneW: true
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ok done
<cbx33> we can possibly put a note on the AMD64 page?
<ogra> it wont just be in the default install on an arch we dont send through shipit
<JaneW> cbx33 please make a note of that ^^
<cbx33> :p
<spacey> you kick it out of amd64 only or all arches?
<JaneW> ogra: did you test the shipit site?
<ogra> the only real important arch for us is i386
<ogra> yep
<ogra> all others are just nice to have ones
<JaneW> ogra: and all working well?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> great
<ogra> i didnt get any virtual CD yet though :P
<JaneW> it takes up to 8 weeks :P
<flint> ogra, the i386 imperitive is clear.  That is why we should get out of the box (or CD) for the AMD 64...
<ogra> but probably "a bunch" inst a proper volume for marilize :)
<JaneW> ok what else are you doing ogra, but and testing?
<JaneW> but=bugs
<ogra> bugs
<ogra> lots of missed ubuntu bugs still
<JaneW> ok, what do you need from us all for the next 2 weeks?
<ogra> will have at least one nightshift
<ogra> CD testing indeed
<JaneW> cbx33 please make a note of that ^^
<ogra> we'll start with the tests for release candidate on monday
<JaneW> whoever is able to test please do
<JaneW> and feedback results and issues
<ogra> especially people who can test ltsp
<JaneW> we need this realease to be really great
<flint> ogra, will this test iso be called flight 7 essentially?
<JaneW> we are hoping to do great things with it
<pips1> (sorry for being late) what should I test?
<JaneW> pips1: the CD images
<ogra> (and no, i dont mean powerpc clients on amd64 servers or other exotic stuff :) )
<pips1> which flight?
<cbx33> ogra: you know I'll test
<ogra> pips1, from monday on we'll need to test extensively
<JaneW> and let some kids try it too if at all possible
<pips1> ok
<cbx33> JaneW: youth lug will be helping
<cbx33> right dave-YL ?
<JaneW> ogra: how's the art looking now that it's packaged, has it come together nicely?
<ogra> there will be no changes anymore from next week on
<flint> ogra, can efts fly? :^)
<JaneW> cbx33: awesome, thanks Youth LUG
<JaneW> flint: no they scuttle (at best)
<ogra> JaneW, its fine ... i'm still not thrilled by chalkboards but it fits into the rest now
<cbx33> were we ever thrilled with chalkboards :p
<ogra> we have one open bug about NZ missing on the map
<JaneW> ogra: good, let's see how;s it received, maybe we'll get rave reviews :P
* cbx33 chuckles
<ogra> so we might get a last minute change here
<JaneW> ogra: LMAO
<flint> JaneW, so the first new release will be called a scuttle?  I like it!!!
<ogra> silbs is on it
<flint> :^)
<JaneW> flint: no that was my sugestion though, doubt it will be taken...
<ogra> oh, and the homies are in as well
<JaneW> YAY
<flint> JaneW, got my vote!
<JaneW> flint: thanks
<JaneW> ok so Edubutu 6.06 ROCKS
<ogra> i had to make them a jpeg instead of png to reduce the size
<cbx33> ogra: np
<JaneW> I think I may need to back a cake
<cbx33> do as you wish
<JaneW> or draw on a chalkboard or something
<cbx33> at least the Homies have a Crib :p
<ogra> cbx33, i did as i *could* 
<cbx33> hehe
<JaneW> ok docs
<ogra> if someone would listen to my whishes, we'd have 800MB default CDs :)
<cbx33> oooh big things happening in docs
<JaneW> jsgotangco: and not a moment too soon :)
<pips1> junior = homies, default (= senior?) = chalkboard, plain = ?
<ogra> plain = plain color
<pips1> ah
<ogra> no wallpaper
<JaneW> ok what's the status of the docs
<flint> ogra, I see your point.  
<JaneW> About Edubuntu - done?
<JaneW> did it get translated in the end?
<ogra> pips1, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper_art/Screenshot_plain_2.png
<jsgotangco> sorry im late
<JaneW> jsgotangco: np
<jsgotangco> (really bad traffic)
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> so is the FF page
<jsgotangco> no
<JaneW> huh>
<JaneW> ?
<JaneW> yes no
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> lag
<jsgotangco> he
<JaneW> oic, done but not traslated?
<ogra> i havent gotten any translations for it
<ogra> i know mhz made one though
* jsgotangco in breezy now can't check
<ogra> but thats the only one i'm aware of
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> is it a problem that it's not translated?
<cbx33> has it been posted on to docs ml for tans?
<JaneW> and it the deadline passed? I think it is...
<ogra> JaneW, not imho
<jsgotangco> its too late in the cycle
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> unless we delay our release :)
<ogra> JaneW, we decided to make our deadline for our doc and artwork teams ourselves
<ogra> so what i can get in before tomorrow will get in
<JaneW> ogra: but just how far can you push it
<JaneW> we are WAY past the official ubuntu deadline
<ogra> but i'm merely busy with uibuntu stuff so bets are not good
<JaneW> ok so your deadline is flight 8?
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ok, but we don;t want to rush stuff through, too risky
<JaneW> shall we stick to english?
<jsgotangco> yes
<cbx33> I'd say yes
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> I am biased being english
<JaneW> will the rest of the world accept that?
* jsgotangco doesn't really want to do translation uploads after relesae as patches
<cbx33> hehe
<JaneW> ok good done
<ogra> i'd like to get the gettingstarted guide in and probably about edubuntu
<ogra> but that really depends if i survive tonight
<JaneW> cbx33 please make a note of that ^^
<cbx33> will do
<JaneW> ta
<JaneW> ok CookBook
<ogra> ubuntu is higher prio by mdz's call atm for me
<JaneW> I appologise that I have not been in a position to help with it
<JaneW> as I expected
<ogra> same for me
<cbx33> i've been trying to....
<JaneW> so with that in mind, has anything been done
<ogra> a lot
<JaneW> and is it in a useable form yet?
<jsgotangco> dunno
<JaneW> I know ppl have been working
<flint> ogra, mdz has you laboring on ubuntu flight 8 eh?
<JaneW> which is very encouraging
<JaneW> spacey: you have an update?
<spacey> partly
<cbx33> partly an update :p
<ogra> flint, nope, he complained that i didnt do enough ubuntu bugwork this release (which is totally true)
<JaneW> pygi is not here
<JaneW> has he been working on it?
<spacey> pygi said he was working on it
<cbx33> yes and hedgemage too
<spacey> but didn't see it in the wiki
<JaneW> yes that's right
<spacey> didn't talk to him for the last two weeks
<cbx33> it's all on their locals at the mo, or was last time I heard
<spacey> i was really busy
<ogra> i think LaserJock did also a good bunch of work there
<spacey> i'm a bit behind schedule
<cbx33> I'm trying to help with the last sections when i get a spare second
<JaneW> so do we have anything to include (or space to put it in) or shall we leave it as an on-line resource?
<flint> ogra, he has Fabio... we need you.
<spacey> and would like to get rid of a chapter, or have suggestions what to put in it
<JaneW> either way it must be finished
<JaneW> it is worth it
<flint> :^)
<jsgotangco> id really suggest not beating release
<ogra> flint, in any case i need to do less work on edeubuntu in edgy
<ogra> we need more devs that help out with it
<JaneW> can we ask the contributors to put what they have done on the wiki so we can start reviewing it?
<cbx33> ogra: I'm working on that
<jsgotangco> flint, that's where i come in *gulp*
<cbx33> JaneW: I would
<JaneW> yes dev volunteers always welcome
<ogra> cbx33, i know, youre one of my big hopes ;)
<spacey> JaneW: that would be good in anycase, that everyone puts their stuff up in the wiki
<ogra> JaneW, we'll get there :)
<cbx33> teach me I'm a blank page :p
<cbx33> ^^ I'll not that too :p
<JaneW> everyone put your CookBook Contributions ON THE WIKI
<cbx33> JaneW: noted :p
<JaneW> :))
<spacey> before the end of this week? before next meeting?
<cbx33> ASAP
<JaneW> asap
<cbx33> :p
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i'd really suggest not rushing this, it'll still be good even a few weeks after release
<JaneW> before end of week please
<ogra> yesterday
<JaneW> jsgotangco: not rushing it
<ogra> jsgotangco++
<cbx33> jsgotangco: sure but people can start proofing and suggesting
<JaneW> jsgotangco: just applying some pressure
<spacey> :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ppl like pain
<JaneW> next is the whip
<spacey> JaneW: thats a good thing :)
<cbx33> JaneW pain
* jsgotangco got tired of pain already
<ogra> jsgotangco, JaneW knows what she's talking about ;)
<cbx33> awww....
<spacey> some people only perform under pressure :P
<JaneW> also congrats to those selected for the Paris Summit
<jsgotangco> your call
<ogra> oh yes :)
<JaneW> jsgotangco, highvoltage and LaserJock
<spacey> who is going?
<spacey> ah
<ogra> looking forward to meet you all
<JaneW> they are representing Edubuntu
<cbx33> congrats guys, - wish I could have gone too :p
<ogra> highvoltage is final ? 
<JaneW> and will be exoected to help to spec and plan the edgy release, so please start thinking along those lines
<ogra> cbx33, next time :)
<JaneW> ogra: yes
<cbx33> ogra: one can only hope :p
<ogra> cbx33, likely at a more exotic place :)
<cbx33> yikes....
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i will do it but i dare you to bring a whip
<cbx33> ok back to docs
<JaneW> cbx33: yes keep going and I am sure the next one (which will be bigger) will be a good target for you
<JaneW> jsgotangco: oooh a DARE
<ogra> jsgotangco, just bring some leaher armory
<cbx33> ESA is going to final freeze on friday
<jsgotangco> JaneW, and a nurse costume too
<JaneW> *blushe*
<ogra> lol
<cbx33> we're in the the SVN now and working hard
<JaneW> cbx33: great
<JaneW> cbx33: it almost done?
<cbx33> just somethings to tidy up which Corey is helping out with
<JaneW> awesome, that's a really great doc
<jsgotangco> i uploaded his patch a few hours ago
<cbx33> HedgeMage was working on some screenshots, but I know that there's pressure there for otehr things
<cbx33> so screenshots from others of the app in use would be great
<JaneW> cbx33: will it stay on the wiki too?
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> we're thinking it maky be a little downsized for the pamphlet
<JaneW> cbx33: hows the web/wiki stuff coming along for the release too?
<spacey> whats ESA?
<cbx33> good
<cbx33> I'm working the new wiki front
<ogra> edubuntu school advocacy
<JaneW> when the release announcements go out the URL will get a lot of exposure so lots of traffic will hit the site, we need to make ppl want to stay there
<cbx33> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWikiMock
<spacey> whats that?
<JaneW> and we need a release announcement!
<cbx33> ideas suggestions....put em in a mail :p
<ogra> and a working css for the homepage
<JaneW> ogra: is corparate handling that? I haven't heard
<cbx33> and mail it to someone whocares....oh that's me :p
<ogra> its broken since a while+
<JaneW> last time we did it ourselves
<cbx33> yes, highvoltage was working on that
<jsgotangco> i will draft the announcement
<JaneW> jsgotangco: *HUG*
<ogra> JaneW, no idea, i guess we'll have to list the features ourselves at least
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I mean *1 whipping* 
<ogra> since management doesnt know about them
<JaneW> ogra: yes please do and take care to make them mdz acceptable
<cbx33> true :p
<ogra> JaneW, will do
<JaneW> ogra: he complained about the dteail in my last monthly report
<cbx33> mdz compliance :p
<JaneW> need a good balance between technical reality and exciting sounding consumer stuff
<ogra> JaneW, he also didnt understand why i summarized all flight features in the beta announcement
<JaneW> cbx33: that's it
<JaneW> ogra: made sense to me
<cbx33> ok, lastly I think from me is the LTSPDocs
<ogra> yep, to me too
<JaneW> cbx33: yes?
<cbx33> I've started, making a new page on wiki
<cbx33> UbuntuLTSP
<cbx33> which will detail ALL LTSP docs
<JaneW> cbx33: documentation?
<JaneW> really? ogra that the stuff you were trying to get to one day?
<cbx33> so I'm currently in the process of moving and updating all LTSP related material
<cbx33> to make it ubuntu generic
<flint> cbx33, the re-use of LTSP docs is a great idea.
<JaneW> cbx33: excellent
<cbx33> indeed
<ogra> JaneW, its partially my stuff, but cbx33 is doing great work in collecting *everything* ltsp realted
* JaneW hands cbx33 one of her 'Virtual Gold Star's (TM)
<cbx33> if anyone has written an LTSP doc please update to make it ubuntu generic
<cbx33> oooooh
<JaneW> haven't used those for a while
<ogra> wow
* JaneW is super impressed
<ogra> cbx33, they are really rare
<ogra> kepp it in a frame
<ogra> *keep
<cbx33> I'll contact all page maintaners
<cbx33> if I can
<jsgotangco> good luck
<cbx33> I'll put that i nthe meeting notes :p
<ogra> :)
<cbx33> my aim is to hopefully create an LTSP cookbook of sorts
<ogra> an alternative to the thin client howto would be fine ...
<cbx33> :p
<ogra> that doc is horrible, but it has useful advanced info
<cbx33> well u know what I mean
<cbx33> indeed, why I was goign to break it down a little
<cbx33> but we can talk abotu that later
<ogra> i'd like to have a doc that really only shows the three steps needed to get ltsp running
<cbx33> yes ogra definite
<ogra> thin client howto hides the easiness
<cbx33> and then links to some advanced materials
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> :D
<JaneW> things have come together really nicely this cycle
<ogra> things like NAT and hosts.allow/deny are surely overkill
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> they can go in advanced advanced section :p
<ogra> this cycle was a lot better than the last, but it was also a lot less work for me
<ogra> i.e. no main inclusion fighting for every single package 
<ogra> the only one i had on my list for main inclusion disqualified itself
<cbx33> just as a note, I'd like to do so much more on edubuntu, but time is an issue for me :p
<ogra> (gobby)
<JaneW> cbx33: btw feel free to eidt the wiki as much as you want and write or trash stuff etc, much of what is there (esp front page) was thrown together by me, so there's lots of room for improvement
<jsgotangco> cbx33, who does?
<cbx33> jsgotangco: indeed
<jsgotangco> cbx33, before it was only me
<cbx33> JaneW: I'm taking as diplomatic approach as I can to the wiki :p
<JaneW> also once 6.06 is out we'd like to encourage ppl to evangelise Edubuntu, talk about it where you can and make it know to all
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> do the big promotion dance
<JaneW> Breezy was kept low key, now we want everyone to know and everyone to use Edubuntu
<ogra> flint, ^^^^
<cbx33> JaneW: ESA !!!!
<JaneW> flint you and jelkner can go wild now
* ogra imagines flint dancing
<JaneW> and use the ESA!!!
<ogra> yeah
<cbx33> would be excellent if we can get this printed off
<JaneW> get it printed locally etc
<cbx33> and sent to some of our more advoacative people
<cbx33> JaneW: think funding could be available for that?
<JaneW> we may get a small and selective marketing budget in this cycle
<JaneW> to use wisely
<cbx33> now that would be ace
<ogra> yeah
<JaneW> we are never going to have a big budget though so we need to be wise
<cbx33> indeed
<JaneW> ok next?
<ogra> i'd also like to have another edubuntu summit in edgya or edgy+1
<ogra> -a
<jsgotangco> JaneW, ok we'll resort to painting graffitti then
<ogra> if we have a bigger community
* cbx33 starts work on this edubuntu graffiti stencils for maximum efficiency
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes!
<cbx33> w00t just like the homies did :p
<flint> ogra, flint dancing == hindenburg landing at lakehurst nj...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: pictures of the homies
<ogra> flint, lol
<JaneW> ogra: yes I think another summit would make sense
<ogra> JaneW, we should have stickers for schoool toilets :)
<JaneW> I think to plan edgy +1
<ogra> yep
<JaneW> ogra: for school bags
<ogra> as well, yes :)
<flint> JaneW, we could produce a special brand of cigarretts - say with filters - edubuntu brand hmmm...
<jsgotangco> +1
<ogra> mmmm
<flint> :^)
<ogra> :)
<flint> ogra, down ma man...
<schoolinux> :)
<cbx33> :)-
<ogra> flint, got contacts to phil morris ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra, i'd really like to advocate dopewars for main inclusion to edubuntu
<JaneW> flint: lol
<jsgotangco> :)
<flint> ogra, what do you need got the art?
<ogra> jsgotangco, beware of the DEA
<jsgotangco> heh
<flint> ogra, they need back into this market bad...
<ogra> flint, the art of smoking ? 
<ogra> sure
<flint> ogra, i am a bad man...
* cbx33 imagines it now...."it's ok miss, I'm puffing on some edubuntu goodness"
<flint> :^)
<JaneW> oh I nearly forgot
<JaneW> the edubuntu install video
<flint> JaneW, thanks.
<JaneW> I want to ask Chris if we can use it
<ogra> yeah, we need to put it on the wiki or website
<cbx33> I could link to it on the wiki homepage
<JaneW> yes in .ogg and .wmp format
<JaneW> I just need him to save the formats and let us use them
<JaneW> I'll contact him
<ogra> oh, one thing
<flint> JaneW, seriously, you bring up a good point.  a flash install product would be nice, but flash is not open.
<ogra> if someone could also test upgrades breezy->dapper including ltsp, that would be very helpful next week
<cbx33> ogra: I'll try my best buddy :p
<jsgotangco> how is amd64?
<JaneW> yes and test test tes
<ogra> flint, we support ogg out of the box in edubuntu
<JaneW> flint: yup, it;s a problem
<ogra> jsgotangco, 3M oversized again :(
<jsgotangco> doh
<ogra> i'm working on it
<JaneW> flint: he has a flash version, but says the original is a .wav
<ogra> looking for something to drop
* jsgotangco couldn't grab
<JaneW> jsgotangco: kstars is being dropped
<jsgotangco> pfftt who needs it
<ogra> likely
<ogra> i still need to determine the exact numbers
<flint> ogra, indeed Ollie, but there is no product that uses the ogg format in a completed film maker package.
<jsgotangco> totem
<ogra> flint, there is ... edubuntu :)
<cbx33> should I put a note to that effect in ESA?
<flint> ogra, I heard that there  may be something called "wink" that does it...
<jsgotangco> kino
<ogra> cbx33, just link to the RestrictedFormats page
<flint> jsgotangco, kino will?
<JaneW> ok we have 5 or so minutes
<JaneW> anything else?
<ogra> flint, wink is proprietary windows software iirc
<JaneW> or is it 'free play' time?
<cbx33> i meant about kstars being dropped, my connection is becomming slow...lots of lag
<ogra> cbx33, not yet
* cbx33 holds up his gold star and kisses it
<flint> i recently looked at the window$ program Camtasia, anything like it in open?
<ogra> lest me see if it helps us first
<JaneW> next week at 20:00 (under duress)
<cbx33> yup
<flint> JaneW, the reason I asked was to develop docs...
<ogra> i suspect the data is in the kdeedu-data package, if thats the case we wont win with it
<jsgotangco> ogra, i was thinking kvoctrain
<ogra> i'll notify you 
<ogra> jsgotangco, how big is the binary ?
* jsgotangco checks
<flint> jsgotangco, i will look at kino... thanks.
<JaneW> flint: huh?
<jsgotangco> Size: 843724
<jsgotangco> pfftt
<ogra> 800k
<jsgotangco> sorry
<ogra> thats not enough
<jsgotangco> yeah
<flint> JaneW, go look at the camtasia web page.  you will get it then.
<JaneW> flint: ok
<ogra> kstars is 4.3M
<cbx33> that's nothing
<ogra> that should help
<jsgotangco> ogra, kstars is ok
<flint> JaneW, there is a revolution brewing in educational software, and it is spelled FLASH.... sadly :^)
<cbx33> man my lag is slowa the mo....
* cbx33 decides not to talk fro a hwile...I'll reconnect once meeting is over
<JaneW> flint: once we can use flash I will dance a jig
<ogra> flint, in norway they do their exams and tests in flash forms
<ogra> would be a major gain if we could ship it
<flint> JaneW, I can tell you how to use flash, but it will tick off Oliver, so I will not.
<schoolinux> excuse me, but dropping kstars will put away some astro guys
<JaneW> Cape Town may be under water soon, it has rained and rained for 18 hours
<cbx33> heheh flint :p
<jsgotangco> schoolinux, only for amd64
<ogra> flint, there is nothing wrong about flash ... just that its not shippable
<JaneW> and our swimming pool was very low, and is now overflowing
<ogra> schoolinux, only on amd64
<flint> JaneW, Masachusetts is in the same rain mode...
<jsgotangco> schoolinux, unless you can suggest somthing bigger to drip that is not used
<cbx33> we need a start up app...to display links to install all these extras
<schoolinux> there are astonomers there, too! 
<jsgotangco> cbx33, edgy
<flint> ogra, I understand the issue.  Read Ventor Vinge and be very afraid...  
<JaneW> flint: I have flash, and it's great, until all my FF windows just vanish suddenly
<cbx33> heheh
<ogra> schoolinux, we'll ship only i386 CDs anyway and that will pervent the amd64 arch from being dropped completely
<jsgotangco> schoolinux, its only 4.3MB we couldn't build amd64
<flint> JaneW, you have flash on your ubuntu box?
<JaneW> yes
<schoolinux> ogra, got it
<ogra> schoolinux, i'd love to keep it, but we only have 695M :)
<flint> JaneW, do not tell Oliver how you got it... and I will not use the "A" word.
<ogra> and amd64 binarys are bigger than i386
<JaneW> flint: he knows how, he just can;t package it, or include anything that relies on it
<flint> ogra, is that because they are 64 bits long?
<schoolinux> ogra, i understand that
<ogra> flint, sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree ?
* jsgotangco raises the 64bit flag
<ogra> flint, yep, partially
* JaneW votes for one unified architecture
<flint> ogra, interesting...
<ogra> also the kernel packages are bigger
<cbx33> JaneW: i second that
<flint> why cannot you declare your CD to be 100 mb bigger?
<ogra> JaneW++
<JaneW> cbx33: make a note of that ;) :P
<sladen> just proclaim that amd64 requires 700MB CDs
<ogra> flint, because that wont help, people need to have the media :)
<sladen> (which are the common case for alot of people anyway)
<ogra> sladen, we use 700MB CDs by default for all arches
<JaneW> ok our time is up
<cbx33> :)
<JaneW> thanks everyone
<ogra> sladen, since breezy already :)
<jsgotangco> yeah
<spacey> bb :)
<JaneW> next week I want to hear about how everyone is planning to celebrate on 1 June
<flint> JaneW, thanks to Jane and Oliver...
<jsgotangco> we've always passed the barrier since
<flint> and the rest!
<ogra> thanks for attending 
<cbx33> back to #edubuntu
<JaneW> ogra: in Paris you must get some edubuntu circle of friends photos
<cbx33> <-------meeting notes will end here----->
<jsgotangco> good idea while we are drunk
<ogra> JaneW, yeah
<JaneW> ogra: and find out where to get those space suit things
<JaneW> or nurses outfits :P
<ogra> hehe
* jsgotangco will skip to thiniking of anything french for now since we're an edu-based project
<sivang> johehehe
<sivang> that is:
<sivang> jsgotangco: hehe
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu
<janimo> hi
<Gloubiboulga> hello janimo 
<janimo> hi Gauvain
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: how's xkb progressing?
<janimo> there's a separate bug on it in LP
<janimo> maybe you can take a look at that too if you think it's worth it and you got familiar with the code
<Gloubiboulga> still working on it, it should be ready soon
<janimo> you forgot '(TM)' ;)
<Gloubiboulga> about the variant not displayed ?
<janimo> yes
<Gloubiboulga> I'll look at this
<janimo> is that much work?
<Gloubiboulga> don't think so
<janimo> I mean bug or feature req?
<Gloubiboulga> it's more a feature request
<Gloubiboulga> but if I can add it i will
<janimo> then  we should just defer it
<janimo> it is not as important as the layout addition from ui
<Gloubiboulga> I agree :)
<janimo> so we just bugfix :)
<janimo> there are a few minor UI bugs on the various plugins, most will probably be deferred as well
<janimo> I'll concentrate on xfdesktop/gamin bugs instead
<Gloubiboulga> I've not reported it yet, but there's a little bug with clearlooks too
<janimo> and other bad interactions with gnome volume manager
<janimo> the engine/theme itself or in the context of xubuntu?
<janimo> I'll be looking at the xfrun you confirmed today as well
<Gloubiboulga> is there a clearlooks theme ?
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: clearlooks gtkrc I think
<janimo>  /usr/share/themes/Clearlooks/
<Gloubiboulga> I think it's a theme issue, the colors in the systemload plugin are not displayed
<janimo> uses the clearlooks engince
<Gloubiboulga> everything is blue
<janimo> means the system is not loaded :)
<Gloubiboulga> I have the colors with the other themes
<janimo> ever
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<janimo> possibly a plugin bug, as clearlooks is better tested I guess
<janimo> or just a misinteraction between the plugin and this specific theme?
<Gloubiboulga> maybe, it's not a major bug anyway
<Gloubiboulga> misinteraction between the plugin and this specific theme I guess
<janimo> right one of the plugin bugs. goodies are not all well maintained. I'd say we remove the ones with visual glitches from default install
<janimo> and just have them on CD
<janimo> most are geeky anyway (ssyload, cpugraph, wavelan)
<janimo> what do you say?
<janimo> it makes the plugin choser dialog less overwhelming too
<Gloubiboulga> It's a minor issue, it doesn't eat a lot of space, I think we can keep the plugins installedd
<janimo> anyway most should be in main soon
<janimo> right spacewise they're fine
<janimo> just most of them don;t yet even have a logo and all have the mouse instead in the chooser
<janimo> anyway minor issue
<janimo> most important plugins are all here and working
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> we have about 30 bugs reported
<janimo> and a few unreported in LP but in xfce bugzilla which affect us
<janimo> of the LP ones, an xfdesktop crasher and print not working from mousepad (or in xfce generally) look the most serious
<janimo> I'll ask on the list for printing testers
<Gloubiboulga> these bugs has been reported on the Xfce bugzilla too or are xubuntu specific ?
<janimo> oh and the requirement to get xubuntu-system-tools on the CD, but I am not sure that will happen :(
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: mostly xubuntu ones, although the xfdesktop g-v-m interaction affects upstream as well
<Gloubiboulga> xubuntu-system-tools is really missing :/
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: yep, sad that it's not in main
<janimo> and the plugin bugreports may be in their upstream bugzilla, but their maintenance depdns much on the plugin affected
<janimo> battery and weather the ones with most reports seem orphaned
<Gloubiboulga> and the battery plugin is really buggy
<Gloubiboulga> the weather plugin has only a config bug iirc
<Kamion> I'll promote the other ones with approved main inclusion reports later on today - I need to go out now though
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: battery worked for me when I used it
<Gloubiboulga> It worked for me too since I don't have batteries :)
<Gloubiboulga> I can't even try to reproduce the bugs
<janimo> see, most users don't so only a fraction of them is affected :)
<janimo> I wish gnome-power-manager did not use gnome_session. We could use it then
<janimo> put it in autostart and there, no need for 30 gnome libs
<janimo> something to talk about for edgy, since the battery plugin is not cutting it. Although last week it has been rewritten with HAL support by one of the xfce devs
<janimo> it may be better than what we have now
<Gloubiboulga> indeed
<janimo> anyway, as out main target is old desktops and thin clients battery is not such a big issue.
<janimo> xfce users on modern hw tend to launch various gnome goodness anyway
<Gloubiboulga> I know that the Xfce devs doen't want to provide too many tools, but keyboard/battery are really usefull and should be part of Xfce imo
<janimo> g-p-m is just ok for them
<janimo> I agree, if maintained they'd be a good candidate for core plugins
<janimo> in-panel
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<janimo> so maybe you make xkb that good ;)
<Gloubiboulga> I try :)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<janimo> anything else to discuss?
<janimo> any questions?
<Gloubiboulga> no
<Gloubiboulga> my plan is 1. finish the xkb plugin, 2. dive into bugs
<Gloubiboulga> and test installs...
<janimo> ok, thanks
<janimo> mine is : dive into bugs :)
<Gloubiboulga> good luck with that :)
<Gloubiboulga> will you upload new svn snapshot ?
<janimo> and update xubuntu-system-tools to have latest pactehs of g-s-t
<janimo> new snapshot of what? genrally xfce stuff?
<Gloubiboulga> yes
<janimo> I think so, since some bugs are fixed upstream, and rather than handpicking them I'd rather upload
<janimo> there's a crasher in xfwm4 , thunar has quite some fixes too
<janimo> the other packages are mostly ok, I'll only touch xfdeskto, that has the most issues with removable media and icons generally
<Gloubiboulga> ok
<Gloubiboulga> xfrun is really buggy too
<janimo> what else does it do?
<Gloubiboulga> it never stops :)
<janimo> oh?
<Gloubiboulga> when you run an app with it it still runs in background
<janimo> you mean it is in the background?
<Gloubiboulga> yep
<janimo> that's a feature not a bug :)
<Gloubiboulga> oops
<janimo> really it's in the background and when you laucnh it it contacts that daemon using dbus
<Gloubiboulga> ok then :)
<janimo> so lauch is fast instead of >1second
<janimo> I worked hard on this feature ;)
<Gloubiboulga> sorry...
<janimo> don;t you call it a bug!
<janimo> :)
<janimo> but the pwd thing I'll need to fix
* Gloubiboulga apologizes
<janimo> it is really more responsive than 4.2
<janimo> np,, I agree it is suspect to be in the background
<Gloubiboulga> I don't use it a lot, since I have the verve plugin installed
<janimo> Gloubiboulga: which reminds me I need to update it to 0.3.1
<Kamion> can I just remind that we are deep-freezing on Monday?
<janimo> it has some fixes as well
<Kamion> new upstreams are getting increasingly less appropriate :)
<janimo> Kamion: yup I heard something along those lines :)
<janimo> Kamion: no new upstream but bugfixes still good right?
<janimo> or even those restricted to crahser and dataloss bugs starting Monday?
<Kamion> absolutely critical only
<Kamion> from Monday
<janimo> Kamion: ok, busy weekend then :)
<Kamion> and at the moment, I would very much recommend bug fixes only
<janimo> right, that is the case now.
<janimo> ok, nothing else I guess.
<janimo> if so bye everybo^W Gauvain
<Gloubiboulga> see you Jani
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: Current meeting: Xubuntu | 18 May 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 23:00: Technical Board | 24 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: Current meeting: Xubuntu | 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 May 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-23
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jjesse> @agenda Detriot
<jjesse> @agenda Detroit
<Mithrandir> jjesse: @schedule
<jjesse> Mithrandir: thanks
<jjesse> @schedule Detroit
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 18 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 16:00: Technical Board | 24 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 18 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 04:00: Technical Board | 24 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bluefoxicy> UDT?
<bluefoxicy> in... an hour?
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Italy
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bluefoxicy> @schedule United States/New York
<bluefoxicy> @schedule EST
<Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 16:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 15:00: Technical Board | 24 May 08:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<bluefoxicy> Any idea how long the Development Team meeting is going to last about?
<Kamion> 90 minutes
<Kamion> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-May/000137.html
<bluefoxicy> I'll check back here in an hour anda half then.
<zul> hey jeff
<jbailey> Heya Chuck!
<ajmitch> morning jeff
<jbailey> Hi Andrew.
<Kamion> bluefoxicy: it *starts* in about 35 minutes, though.
<bluefoxicy> ah
<bluefoxicy> Kamion:  <bluefoxicy> @schedule EST
<bluefoxicy> <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 18 May 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 16:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 15:00: Technical
<bluefoxicy> It's 9:21 here
<Kamion> bluefoxicy: I bet it's also EDT, not EST
<Kamion> being summer and all
<bluefoxicy> I guess.  I'm set to New york time.
<bluefoxicy> Who invented this crap.
<Kamion> New York is EDT when daylight savings is in effect
<bluefoxicy> Kamion:  Tell The Man that he shouldn't be messing with time and there's 24 hours in a day, not 23 once in a while and 25 at other times.
<bluefoxicy> anyway, too much noise in the signal.
<bluefoxicy> This going to be a Dapper discussion or is somebody slipping in something about Edgy today?
<jbailey> @schedule America/Montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 May 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 17:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 16:00: Technical Board | 24 May 09:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 16:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<jbailey> SYSV time codes suck.  Use something modern =)
<jbailey> Ubugtu: thanks.
<zul> meh...there should be America/Ottawa ;)
<bluefoxicy> @schedule Canada/Ottawa
<jbailey> zul: Toronto's there.
<jbailey> But yeah, they're missing a few cities.
<zul> zul: yeah toronto thinks its the center of the universe though
* ajmitch recalls phil charles changing Pacific/Auckland to Pacific/Dunedin on the hurd install cds :)
<Kamion> bluefoxicy: expect us to be concentrating primarily on dapper
<bluefoxicy> zul:  Vile described it more as "I live in the middle of f--ing nowhere"
<bluefoxicy> Kamion:  nods.
<bluefoxicy> Kamion:  I'm waiting to see how Edgy is going to go anyway... dapper is on a late release, that puts Edgy 4 months away if it steps back to get on-schedule.
<jbailey> bluefoxicy: I'm sure that we can probably break more than enough in 4 months to keep everyone happy. ;)
<bluefoxicy> haha I saw that
<bluefoxicy> mark was like "..... as a result Edgy won't be quite as polished as dapper..."
<Kamion> 4 months is the current plan, yes
<Kamion> well, 4.5
<janimo> is there a place where only the edgy specs can be seen?
<ranf> hi
<jjesse> i don't think the edgy specs have been created yet
<janimo> I did not find a way of sorting specs accoring to creation date
<janimo> well proposals for the summit Imean
<janimo> I saw at least one which was made recently and is aimed at edgy
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<pitti> hello!
<ajmitch> hi
<Mithrandir> pong!
<zul> hi pitti 
<bluefoxicy> hey pitti.
<JaneW> ping: BenC, doko, dholbach,  Kamion,  Kinnison ,  mvo, ogra, Riddell, sfflaw
<dholbach> pong
* mvo waves
* mvo runs to get fresh tea
<pitti> JaneW: doko is in Mexico at debconf, probably asleep
<Riddell> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> what's Mexico's TZ?
<JaneW> @schedule Mexico
<Kamion> here
<zul> central standard time i think
<JaneW> UTC -?
<pitti> JaneW: should be very early morning now
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > TZ=Mexico/General date
<Mithrandir> tor mai 18 09:00:45 CDT 2006
<Kamion> @schedule America/Mexico_City
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Mexico_City: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 May 16:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 15:00: Technical Board | 24 May 08:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<iwj> While we're waiting, I thought I'd just ask: is there anyone who doesn't think these meetings would be less inconvenient if they were all an hour earlier ?
<pitti> -9ish?
<Mithrandir> iwj: I'm hoping we can revisit the schedule in paris since I think the current one is a fits-nobody rather than a fits-somebody-most-of-the-time.
<pitti> iwj: I don't particularly mind the time of all but the 0200 UTC one, and having this one earlier would be great for me
<JaneW> ping: BenC, doko, dholbach,  Kinnison ,  ogra,  sfflaw
* ajmitch really shouldn't be awake right now, for that matter
<Kamion> has anyone SMSed mz?
<Kamion> mdz?
<ogra> cough
<JaneW> the solution is easy, move mdz East
<JaneW> hi ogra 
<zul> heh
<bluefoxicy> ajmitch:  aw come on, 3am isn't too late ;)
<dholbach> JaneW: I ponged you two times :)
<Mithrandir> pitti: having the 0200 UTC one at 2200 UTC or so would be nice, agreed.
<JaneW> dholbach: sorry
* dholbach hugs JaneW
<Keybuk> Kamion: sms sent
<jbailey> JaneW: I'm sure the Californian would *love* Montral weather right now. =)
<bluefoxicy> pitti:  can we talk after the meeting?
<iwj> Hmm, yes, 0700 in US/Pacific now.
<pitti> bluefoxicy: yes
<zul> jbailey, its not that bad
<bluefoxicy> pitti:  nods.  Thanks.
<JaneW> fabbione gave appologies, since he is on vac
<JaneW> I am not certain if mdz is planning to attend or not
<JaneW> I would have thought so though
<JaneW> he wanted the meeting to be 90 minutes
* Keybuk notes silbs sneak in
<Kamion> I would very much like to have mdz here at this point in the release cycle
<Mithrandir> somebody call him?
<Mithrandir> it's just at 0900 in the morning.
<Kamion> I've lost my voice so I can't
<jbailey> I can easily.  Got a phone,  cheap calls form here.
<Keybuk> went to voicemail
<Kamion> anyway, let's get started in the meantime
<JaneW> Kamion: yes me too, this is not a regular run down
<JaneW> jbailey: DOIT
<sivang> hi all
<JaneW> hi BenC 
<BenC> hello
<Kamion> BenC: you're up
<BenC> finally :)
<Keybuk> did we forget infinity again? :)
<jbailey> JaneW: he's looking for internet right now, pl ease start without him.
<infinity> I'm here.
<JaneW> jbailey: right thanks
<Keybuk> just checking <g>
<JaneW> ok lets start from the top this week
<infinity> BenC: We need that new kernel upload yesterday, BTW.
<BenC> hold off on me till later in the meeting, I am real busy getting this kernel done
<Kamion> BenC: no, I mean you're up in the meeting :-)
<Kamion> ok
<Kamion> dholbach: 
<dholbach> IconMission: ubuntu-artwork transitioned to icon-naming-utils, some glitches to fix up -- icon page now reflects the state of affairs (requested/missing icons)
<dholbach> BugMission: HUG DAY next week, catching up
<dholbach> this week (done): icon mission, mass-filed some more motu bugs, bug triage
<dholbach> this week (todo): more bug triage, more bug fixing, do uploads until Matt closes the gates :-)
<dholbach> next week: cd testing, bug triage, bug fixing
<BenC> (thanks)
<Kamion> how far away is the artwork from final?
<Kamion> not that artwork has *ever* delayed releases before, oh no
<dholbach> if you look at http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ you will notice the icon sizes in RED which are missing
<dholbach> the most important ones are SVGs
<Riddell> dholbach: you'll be keeping an eye on all those KDE recompiles?
<dholbach> and I pray and hope they get done soon :(
<dholbach> however that's not in my hands
<dholbach> Riddell: yes
<Riddell> thanks
<seb128> dholbach: will you try to have an eye to keep on GNOME stuff too? :p
<dholbach> apart from that the splash and the wallpapers will get the "Ubuntu Dapper Beta" removed, which is easy enough
<dholbach> seb128: yes :-)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: about those kde recompiles - if we could get a list on what still needs fixing, after the rebuild, that would be awesome.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm doing all of main today (8-9 are missing) - I can do a new universe list soon, but not today
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'll let you know
<Hobbsee> dholbach: excellent, thanks.  sounds good to me.
<JaneW> dholbach: are the bug days done for dapper, or are you holding some lasy ones?
<JaneW> last
<dholbach> JaneW: I think we should do them.
<JaneW> dholbach: yup, when?
<dholbach> wednesday too?
<iwj> Kamion: Don't talk to me about artwork.  See mails about ff themes.  More on this when it's my turn ...
<BenC> dholbach: was the kernel bug day done...did I miss it?
<JaneW> tomorrow (NOT)
<pitti> for triaging they are nice, we just won't be able to fix many bugs any more next week
<dholbach> BenC: it seems you missed it :-(
<infinity> Only Major blocking bugs next week, and perhaps some "polish" bugs.  That's about all we'll tackle.
<dholbach> This one went a bit chaotic, I must admit, with Simon missing and me caught up in the icon mission.
<infinity> So, I'm not sure how much value bug days will be.
<Kamion> ah, welcome mdz
<mdz> laggy but here
<dholbach> hi mdz
<JaneW> hi mdz
* pitti waves to Mexico
<mdz> Kamion: can you paste me a log to date?
<Keybuk> mdz: you're up next
<dholbach> infinity: I think it's still good to do it
<Kamion> mdz: will do, just a moment
<BenC> dholbach: The wiki was done last Friday, so whenever you feel like scheduling a triage for kernel bugs...
<Mithrandir> infinity: getting rid of unconfirmed bugs is always good, though
<dholbach> BenC: thanks
<infinity> Mithrandir: True, but not if it detracts heavily from testing images and finding showstoppers.
<infinity> (and fixing those)
<Mithrandir> infinity: true
<dholbach> if it gets new people involved in bug triage, I think that's worthwhile
<JaneW> ok BenC are you ready now?
<mdz> Kamion: regarding artwork, we are in an unfortunate position of being at sabdfl's mercy
<JaneW> while mdz catches up...
<BenC> yes
<BenC> * Kernel: Final build is completing as we meet. Lots of last minute patches. This is actually a much larger upload than I had planned. It's not a huge amount of code, but it's a lot of trivial and minor things that should make dapper really complete.
<BenC> * Anything else: Not really...
<BenC> pretty to the point really
<mdz> Kamion: he insists on icon updates through the 29th
<Kamion> ok, thanks dholbach
<Kamion> doko is not here (vacation?)
<Kamion> fabbione: around?
<infinity> mdz: Gah.
<Kamion> mdz: what a novelty
<Kamion> mdz: !
<JaneW> doko is in mexico
<Kamion> so much for a release candidate!
<fabbione> Kamion: yes but i am in holidays
<fabbione> Kamion: so i have no update whatsoever
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> Kamion: exactly
<Kamion> mdz: what are the chances of negotiation here?
<mdz> Kamion: the discussion has been closed, at least for now
<mdz> I'm sorry
<mdz> Kamion: yes, doko is on holiday
<JaneW> mdz/kamion: we are missing doko (debconf), fabbione (vac)  Kinnison ? ,   sfflaw ?
<Kamion> ok, apparently nobody wants to ask anything about the kernel :)
<mdz> JaneW: sfllaw is on vacation as well
<JaneW> ok thanks
<infinity> Kamion: I'm happy if it gets uploaded, really. :)
<Kamion> heno: around?
<mdz> I have no information about Kinnison
<Kamion> infinity: me too ...
<Kamion> IIRC Kinnison is embroiled in moving, but I could be wrong
<heno> Kamion: yes, I'm up?
<mdz> ah, possibly. would be on StaffCalendar if so
<Kamion> heno: yep, if you have anything
<seb128> he mailed warthogs list say he's on vac from 12th to 19th
<heno>  * accessibility: Live CD: gok is still broken (but works on my desktop) -- bug #42308. The magnifier fails to start automatically, but starts from the terminal (bug #45413). The SoC projects seem to be off to a good start.
<heno>  * example-content: updating screenshots and fixing typos.
<heno>  * popcon: helped Tollef make http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ a bit less ugly
<heno>  * ubuntu-artwork: does this need more input from me? We are moving one high viz theme in here and leaving the rest in accessibility-themes. seb128, dholbach?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42308 in gok "On-screen keyboard (gok v1.0.7-0ubuntu3) fails" [Normal,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42308
<heno>  * website: I'm giving the front page a bit of a face-lift for the dapper release. I also expect a number random updates just before the release as usual.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 45413 in gnopernicus "Fails to start automatically on Live CD 20060518 " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45413
<Kamion> yes, StaffCalendar says Kinnison is away this week moving, but will be back next week
<Mithrandir> heno: I got a minor update for casper from Luke, do you have more stuff you need in to fix gok/gnopernicus or don't you know yet?
<Kamion> heno: are we at a reasonable stopping point accessibility-wise? I know I haven't had much time to work on ubiquity accessibility] 
<heno> Mithrandir: it looks like that update might have broken the magnifier launch
<Riddell> heno: I'll probably update the kubuntu.org page with dapper artwork at some point, can you do the wiki.k.o template?
<Mithrandir> heno: that update is sitting on my hard drive, so I doubt it.
<heno> Kamion: yes, over all it's looking very good
<heno> a few more fixes would be good
<heno> but I'm very pleased overall
<heno> Riddell: can do
<heno> Mithrandir: oic, something has broken it though
<heno> Mithrandir: anyway, I'll test again after your update
<Mithrandir> heno: it just changes fonts, so just test as soon as you have time.
<heno> Mithrandir: ok, that one. cool
<heno> k, I'm done
<mdz> thanks heno
<mdz> infinity?
<infinity> last week: Other than a hard drive crash and recovery, there was lots and lots of bugfixing in initramfs-tools, thunderbird, and other random packages that got in my way during the week.  Also, spent some time looking into the OOo build failures, but am still currently stumped (and haven't had the time to get un-stumped)
<infinity> next week: Preparing for RC, doing as many release critical bugfixes as I can manage, and making sure soyuz runs as smoothly as possible while we head into the final stretch.
<mdz> infinity: I'm behind on mail and upgrades; did the initramfs-tools ENOSPC bug get fixed?
<infinity> mdz: Did you get anywhere with OOo?
<mdz> I did not, no
<infinity> mdz: The ENOSPC one is the only Major bug unfixed.  I spent a fair chunk of today looking into it, and it'll be a 2 or 3 line fix that I can make first thing Monday morning, if that's cool.
<infinity> mdz: Just wanted to map it out and make sure I wasn't insane before I made the "obvious" fix and it turned out not to be.
<mdz> infinity: I don't think an update on Monday would be a very good idea
<mdz> though maybe if I saw the patch?
<infinity> Well, I can do it tomorrow and owe you a drink.   Whatever suits.
<mdz> send it to me and I will do it tomorrow if it feels safe
<infinity> I'll pass you a patch tomorrow (it's too late now to be writing it in the first place)
<mdz> oh, we don't have a patch yet
<infinity> No, just the "this is how it should work" in my head, and the fact that it's simple.
<infinity> I could give you an instructional patch, and you could code it pretty much identically to how I would.
<infinity> So, yeah.  No worries.  I'll mail you in the morning.
<infinity> I have nothing else to do before tomorrow evening anyway.
<infinity> We'll work out who owes who a drink and why later.
<mdz> if we don't even have a patch, then it ought to wait until after release
* infinity shrugs.
<infinity> It's the least evil of all the bugs, since it's one that will bite the user in other ways anyway.  But I still want it fixed.
<infinity> Anyhow, we can continue this out of band, I don't want to hold up the meeting.
<mdz> it's hopefully unlikely to affect the install
<mdz> right
<mdz> infinity: thanks
<mdz> iwj: next?
<iwj> Last week: bugs, firefox, firefox themes, firefox startpage translation, etc.
<iwj> Next week: testing and any panics that turn up.  Only 22 ff bugmails unread atm.
<iwj> Stuff to discuss:
<iwj> Bugs: I was expecting a mail or ping from sfllaw about helping with bug triage (he was going to set up a wiki page for the untriaged worrysome ones).
<iwj> gdebi .deb installer: I think this should be disabled for ordinery `open' in firefox and on the desktop.  Users who need to do this ought to be familiar with the command line.  But there is some disagreement (Malone 41993).  Same question for Wine (Malone 24829).
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41993 in firefox "possible "malware" entry way?Firefox provides acess to open .deb files directly with gdebi" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41993
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 24829 in firefox "Firefox proposes to open .exe files with Wine" [Major,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/24829
<iwj> Firefox known must fix issues: Malone 44062 (cookies on .co.uk), Malone 40067 (ppc), Malone 44487 (file clashes)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44062 in firefox "Firefox allows cookies to be set for second-level domain hierarchies" [Unknown,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44062
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40067
<iwj> Firefox themes: Frank Schoep says his ff themes package's Human is still missing a few icons.  sabdfl was keen to have Human as the default.  It all seems a bit confused and I'm sure it's about to be frantic ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44487 in firefox "upgrade to firefox 1.5.dfsg+1.5.0.3-0ubuntu2 fails" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44487
<iwj> Firefox: any thing else that really needs to be fixed, be sure to talk to me and get an ack, or it might fall through the cracks.
<iwj> Firefox ppc problem (Malone 40067): I'm a bit stuck here, not having a PPC machine to test with ...
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 40067 in firefox "firefox freezes after a few secs on ppc" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40067
<iwj> (Sorry about the delay, my new client's paste trip fooled me.)
<mdz> iwj: sfllaw is on holiday this week
<iwj> Oh.
<mdz> but expect to hear from him soon regarding the RC test procedures
<iwj> Right.
<mdz> you should all have received an email about the hardware survey from him
<JaneW> yes
<pitti> iwj: I can help you with testing ppc stuff
<iwj> pitti: Thanks.
<iwj> We can talk offline.
<pitti> iwj: (although it runs just fine for me on iBook)
<iwj> I'd like decisions about the mime config for *.deb and *.exe.
<iwj> pitti: Oh :-/.
<iwj> And also some idea of what's happening about these themes.
<Kamion> I'm not sure I'm up to making a decision on the firefox themes thing
<Kamion> was hoping mdz had more of the sabdfl-related background there
<mdz> if the theme isn't ready, we shouldn't push it
* Keybuk hands Kamion some of infinity's liquid refreshment
<mdz> iwj: can it be made available but not the default?
<iwj> mdz: OK.  So I'll make it the default iff Frank says to do so ?
<iwj> Yes.
<mdz> then let's do that
<iwj> I was definitely going to do that with your permission.
<mdz> the sab may step in and change his mind on that, but let's leave it alone otherwise
<iwj> Changing the default is a new firefox and thus has a nontrivial lead time.
<iwj> (Not in effort, but the computers have to whirr lots.)
<mdz> I'll follow up on the email thread on that
<iwj> Right, thanks.
<mdz> iwj: thanks
<mdz> Kamion: next?
<iwj> So, *.deb and *.exe.  ATM the former runs gdebi if you click on it (web page or desktop) and the latter runs wine.
<mdz> er
<mdz> JaneW: next?
<iwj> I want to disable both of these.
<JaneW> This week:
<JaneW> * Ubuntu Dev Team Meeting report.
<JaneW> * Lots and lots of Google SoC admin and co-ords - please finalise the app selections. Google to allocate project numbers later today. Projects to be granted on Monday.
<JaneW> * Lots and lots of Paris Ubuntu dev Summit planning, sending out invites, responding to enquirieds and coordinating incoming info.
<JaneW> * tested shipit and placed orders for Dapper.
<JaneW> *Edubuntu meeting, final requirements for Dapper, new site launched and wiki cleanups in progress.
<JaneW> * Discussions with management etc.
<mdz> last week's report has an unfortunate page break ;-)
<JaneW> Next week:
<JaneW> * Finalise SoC project selections. Students to be notified, and welcomed and settled with their mentors.
<JaneW> * More UDS planning - should be able to hand this to clan from next week.
<JaneW> * Get edubuntu wiki cleanups finished.
<JaneW> Needed: guys to finsihs SoC rankings, and start on edgy specs (as they can)
<mvo> iwj: I think that is not too bad, what about changing it to "save" by default for gdebi but leave gdebi as defaultopen action?
<mdz> eek, that's soon
<JaneW> and send Paris confirmation so we can aranage that properly
<mdz> I'll need to look over the projects tomorrow or over the weekend
<iwj> mvo: I'm not sure I know how to do that.
<mvo> iwj: lets talk about it after the meeting
<JaneW> mdz: yes time sucks a lot, sorry
<JaneW> time=timing
<mdz> does everyone have their travel arrangements for Paris in the wiki now?
<iwj> mvo: Err, OK.  I was hoping (since everyone tends to have an opinion about this) to have a decision from this meeting.
* mvo has not
<Kamion> oh, damn, I don't yet, but it's just a train booking
<JaneW> mdz: now only 3 or 4
<Kamion> I'll deal with it tomorrow
<ogra> me too
<mdz> ok, please do so
<mdz> JaneW: is it a problem to wait until after the release to gather the list of edgy specs?
<mdz> that's my preferred timeline
<seb128> mdz: not yet, but I plan to take the train so no hurry ... will update it anyway ;)
<mdz> we'll all be far too busy
<JaneW> mdz: yes, sabdfl wanted them before Paris, but between release and Paris should be good
<Riddell> JaneW: are you going to assign mentors to all the projects?
<mdz> right
<JaneW> Riddell: yes, but prefereably as selected by the mentors themselves
<pitti> I rated all the projects and picked one I would mentor - is that good enough for now, or are there more things to be done?
<mdz> JaneW: what's the deadline for assigning mentors?
<JaneW> we asked for 25 SoC projects, we'll likely get 15-20
<iwj> gdebi> I must be wrong about everyone having an opinion.  I'll talk to mvo about it in #ubuntu-devel after this meeting.
<JaneW> Goodle will decide project counts today or tomororw and deadline for project mentor /allocations is Monday
* mvo did the same as pitti (rating + offering mentoring)
<ajmitch> JaneW: are you getting all SoC projects written up as edgy specs by the students?
<Keybuk> heh, Goodle
<mdz> JaneW: hmm, so we need to assign mentors before we know how many projects we have?
<JaneW> ajmitch: yes, no, maybe, TBD ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<mdz> (and therefore which ones)
<JaneW> mdz: not entirely, but they are allocating the counts absed on how organised the orgs are, so we can change it over the week-end, but we need to have selected our top projects at least asap
<JaneW> and then at least made an attemot to match mentors to them
<mdz> JaneW: how many of our top projects have no mentors yet?
<mdz> (many or few?)
<JaneW> well all top projects have a mentor name who said 'I would mentor this'
<JaneW> that's how they got to the top
<JaneW> at least half are assigned I think
<seb128> JaneW: they are not "top scores" though, are they?
<JaneW> by selecting 'I would mentor this' that app gets sent to the top purple section in numerical score order (and 4 points are added to score)
<mdz> (FYI: I am on the pavement outside the conference area to get wireless and have only 38 minutes of battery)
<Kamion> shall we keep moving, then?
<JaneW> ok lets move on
<JaneW> mail or ping me with these q's
<mdz> yes
<Kamion> ubiquity: Nearly there. Last changes needed: better handling of install.py crashes / close button, support for ship-live, probably one or two other bits and pieces. I've added basic noninteractive UTC/local hardware clock configuration but unfortunately I think it's too late for new UI for this.
<Kamion> misc: Fixed DVD images, I believe. Have been hoovering up miscellaneous bugs elsewhere. The last two I urgently want to deal with is to try to fix automounting when using the auto-resizer, which has been a persistent source of bugs since Breezy; and, if I get good feedback, possibly reverting yaboot to gcc-3.3. Also CD renaming, ship-live (current size increase would be ~27MB, may be able to trim that).
<Kamion> anyone have opinions about ship-live (i.e. archive that goes on live CDs that people can use without having to have network access)?
<Kamion> at the moment I have build-essential and kernel headers and stuff, plus the hardware and network access section from ship
<mdz> Mithrandir: can you use your unholy bandwidth for DVD testing today?
<Kamion> nvidia-glx is rather fat and I should probably drop it
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, that should work.
<Kamion> saving ~4MB
<mvo> mdz: I can test the i386 one too
<mdz> Kamion: what's our default for UTC/local?  same as before?
<Kamion> mdz: local if you have Windows installed, UTC if not or if we can't tell
<mdz> right
<mdz> unfortunately that's rather tricky to change after installation; I didn't even notice it was missing from the UI until you mentioned it
* Keybuk cries at the loss of nvidia-glx
<Kamion> Keybuk: I think it's feasible to install from the network?
<mdz> yes, should be
<Kamion> mdz: it *can* be added to the timezone page, it's just a little hairy and seems rather late
<mdz> I'm pretty torn about ship-live
<mdz> it's not very feasible for most folks to install things as huge as build-essential+linux-headers in the live environment anyway
<Kamion> it's not intended for installation in the live environment
<mdz> Kamion: it's a confusing question anyway
<Kamion> the intention is for ubiquity to set it up as an apt source for after installation
<mdz> did we get langpacks for the live seed sorted out?
<Kamion> mdz: agreed, although given the clock being shown in ubiquity it's less confusing that it would otherwise be
<Mithrandir> Kamion: just put it into /var/cache/apt/archives on the cd?
<Kamion> but my inclination is to defer to edgy
<pitti> mdz: I mailed you back, I'd like to do that after the next set of langpacks on monday
<Kamion> Mithrandir: I think we discussed that before, I'm not fond of that approach
<Mithrandir> ok
<mdz> pitti: monday will have a tight schedule, I expect
<mdz> since we want to do a full test cycle
<Kamion> (for reasons I remember articulating but am a bit too broken to articulate now ...)
<pitti> mdz: I didn't get a new tarball in the last two days; if today's works, we can also use them
<Kamion> mdz: I've been deferring langpacks until after sorting out ship-live, anyway
<Kamion> how about I ditch build-essential+linux-headers from ship-live and keep the network access stuff
<pitti> Kamion++
<Kamion> that should bring it down to a less controversial size
<mdz> Kamion: I'm less concerned about size than adding new features
<zakame> hi all
<Kamion> mdz: I'm mostly worried that it was one of the biggest negative review points about the beta
<Kamion> and I think it will affect a lot of shipit users
<Kamion> I agree it's late in the day
<mdz> having it on the CD will allow for a documented procedure
<mdz> without having to change ubiquity to tie it in automagically
<mdz> users generally need instructions for how to get this stuff going anyway; they don't know the names of the packages they need to build a kernel module etc.
<mdz> but we're very short on time (and me on battery)
<Kamion> for the record it's a one-line change, but fair enough :)
<mdz> Kamion: will try to call after the meeting
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> Kamion: mail me a diff then
<mdz> Kamion: thanks
<mdz> Keybuk: next?
<Keybuk> Nothing uniquely interesting to report this week; many bugs fixed.
<Keybuk> I can do custom Malone reports like http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/ on request now.
<Keybuk> #
<mdz> Keybuk: interface renaming sorted once and for all?
<Keybuk> I don't think interface renaming will ever be sorted :)
<mdz> is the archive admin request backlog cleared now?
<mdz> how does anastacia look?
<Keybuk> had to abandon the iftab upgrade stuff, it broke more than it fixed
<infinity> nearly empty.
<Kamion> anastacia is a thing of beauty
<Keybuk> I had an FTP blitz today, backlog is gone
<infinity> Scott attacked her with great vigor.
<ogra> Keybuk deserves a goldstar for anastacia :)
<mdz> fabulous
<mdz> Keybuk: thanks
<mdz> Mithrandir: next?
<Mithrandir> misc: casper hacking, xkeyboard-config updates, oem-config cleanups, popcon.ubuntu.com updates
<Keybuk> the only two things there are xubuntu things that scare pitti
<Mithrandir> next week: release preparations, testing
<Mithrandir> blocked: no
<mdz> is oem-config functional again now?
<Mithrandir> mdz: worked for me.  It's a bit warty, but it works.
<Kamion> Mithrandir: did you manage to nail the bug where oem-config's locale screen is wrong first time round?
<Kamion> or was that one of the ones that had gone away by itself?
<Mithrandir> Kamion: no, it's still there and I need to track it down.
<Mithrandir> sorry. :-(
<Kamion> ok
<mdz> ok
<mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
<mdz> mvo: next?
<mvo> Did:
<mvo> - lots of bug triage/fixing
<mvo> - 3rd party packages work
<mvo> - some work on the ppc chroot on dholbachs machine
<mvo> - helped dholbach with the icons a bit
<mvo> - Goggle SoC review
<mvo> - Dist-upgrade tool work (improved free space checking, auto-detect/show installed demotions from main->universe, progress reporting, fixes)
<mvo> Will do:
<mvo> - testing/fixing RC bugs
<mvo> - make the ppc upgrade tester run automatically (need manual start right now)
<mdz> mvo: anything in the commercial repository?
<mvo> - improve to the auto-dist-upgrade testing script (add a "install-radom-but-not-yet-tested bunch of packages" and try to dist-upgrade them)
<Kamion> oh, sorry mvo, I never did get a chance to look at your ubiquity auto-upgrade code
<mvo> mdz: not yet unfortunately :(
<Kamion> I think it might be too late now :-(
<mvo> mdz: but we are getting there I hope
<Kamion> unless mdz says doit
<mdz> mvo: upgrade tool finalized for release now?
<mvo> Kamion: yeah, I added it late unfortnately
<mdz> Kamion: I said dontdoit
<Kamion> all right
<mvo> mdz: I think so, unless something new comes up of course (major problem etc)
<mvo> but still little feedback recently
<mvo> for the tool
<mdz> ok
<mdz> mvo: thanks
<mdz> ogra: next?
<ogra> * general: triage/fix RC bugs, final polish (artwork/docs) for edubuntu CDs, solved final size problems with amd64
<ogra> g
<ogra> * still fighting with RUNNING_UNDER_GDM in gnome-screensaver
<ogra> * next-week: RC testing, fix bugs where allowed
<mdz> mvo: please ask elmo for download stats to see whether it's being used any more than before
<mvo> mdz: will do, thanks
<mdz> ogra: so all edubuntu CDs are properly sized now?
<ogra> mdz, next build will be
<mdz> ok
<ogra> i didnt want to extra trigger a build now ...
<mdz> RUNNING_UNDER_GDM is not the end of the world, but it is a regression and we can't fix it post-release :-/
<ogra> yes
<mdz> do you need help with it?
<ogra> i'm still digging
<mdz> please get a second pair of eyes on it
<mdz> Keybuk: can you lend a hand?
<ogra> ok
* ogra fears Keybuk is far from being alive
<Keybuk> mdz: next week?
<mdz> Keybuk: after the meeting?
* Keybuk kinda forgot to go to bed last night
<mdz> gar
<ogra> as i did ...
<Keybuk> I blame infinity, he started it
<ogra> nah, that was a usplash issue
<ogra> not his fault 
<mdz> ok, I have 20 minute sbattery
<mdz> ogra: thanks
<mdz> pitti: next?
<pitti> reducing-duplication: no progress since last week, and we should leave this alone for dapper now; the current state is very good already
<pitti> firewall: no answer from Carsten yet, I pinged him again today
<pitti> done last week:
<pitti>  * security: MySQL, Quagga
<pitti>  * mostly killed my list of 24 dapper-targeted bugs: fixed 23, one wishlist/needinfo bug is left
<pitti>  * lots of important printing bug fixes; if you still have annoying printer failures, speak now or never! :)
<pitti>  * bug triage status: fully caught up with my bug mbox; no showstopper bugs in my +{assigned,package}bugs list any more; still need to go over the printing bugs once more
<pitti>  * set up fully automatic daily language pack building (apt'able, great feedback from translators and testers)
<pitti>  * SoC applications review and ranking
<pitti> plan for next week:
<pitti>  * tbird 1.5.0.2 will make it into dapper today, update m-tbird-locale-all for it (planned for the evening today)
<pitti>  * upload new langpacks, fill CDs with langpacks (coordinate with Kamion)
<pitti>  * the usual CD testing and major bug fixing rave
<mdz> pitti: any feedback on the printing situation?
<mdz> a bit late for a call for testing unfortunately
<pitti> mdz: yes, a lot of happy users answering in the bug reports :)
<mdz> good
<mdz> not an unreasonable thing to fix post-release if necessary
<mdz> pitti: thanks
<mdz> Riddell: next?
<Riddell> done: kubuntu-docs i18n, rosetta support fixes, cups 1.2 checking, trying to get floppy support working, map on kde ubiquity
<Riddell> also: new amarok and koffice releases
<Riddell> next week: bug triage and fixing, make sure all language-pack-kde-base-xx packages have the needed files
<bddebian> amarok.. eeks
<Riddell> bddebian: amarok 1.4 isn't getting near dapper
<mdz> Riddell: new amarok and koffice?
<Riddell> mdz: I made dapper packages, as I say amarok 1.4 isn't getting in dapper.  koffice 1.5.1 I may ask for UVF exception, I think they want to release it today
<mdz> Riddell: I'm not likely to approve new upstream versions today unless the diff is eyeballable
<mdz> we're at the 11th hour
<Riddell> that won't be the case, I'm fine with not getting a UVF exception
<mdz> ok; if it proves solid it can go into -updates
<mdz> but let's not risk it for RC/final
<mdz> Riddell: thanks
<mdz> seb128: next?
<seb128> This week:
<seb128> - lot of bugs triaged and fixed
<seb128> - some GNOME updates and bunch of patches from CVS backported
<seb128> - panel changes to the help submenu
<seb128> - made epiphany changes to use a localized startup page
<seb128> - tried different daily liveCDs
<seb128> - registred for GUADEC
<seb128> - reviewed google SoC projects list
<seb128> .
<seb128> Next week: 
<seb128> - looking to french translations
<seb128> - trying CD images
<seb128> - fixing bugs for dapper
<seb128> mdz: speaking about new version, did you read my mail about new intltool?
<mdz> seb128: I saw it in my box this morning but have not read it
<mdz> seb128: if I don't get to it, defer to Kamion
<seb128> k
<mdz> seb128: panel changes are final now, yes?
<seb128> If I have to upload it tomorrow, I'll not pay you a drink for it :p
<seb128> mdz: yep, only the book item destination to change
<mdz> we still don't have the book content?  when will it arrive?
<seb128> no idea
<seb128> who knows about it?
<dholbach> silbs should, no?
<seb128> who is supposed to package that?
<mdz> seb128: can you point the menu at a nonexistent file where we will put the book, instead of the firefox page?
<mdz> seb128: so we don't have to change it later?
<seb128> mdz: I tried to get that location but you were not around and mdke didn't know
<seb128> should I fix a placeholder myself? or is there somebody to ping about it?
<mdz> seb128: please mail silbs and explain that we need the book content *immediately*
<seb128> ok
<mdz> in which package should we put the book content?
<mdz> example-content?
<mdz> ubuntu-docs?
<Kamion> remind me, isn't the book content to be unpacked onto the CD somewhere as well?
<seb128> ubuntu-docs I think
<mdz> 9 minutes battery remaining
<Kamion> or do I misremember?
<seb128> or new package...
<Riddell> if it's ubuntu-docs it needs to be in kubuntu-docs too
<mdz> but the room is open now and I can move inside soon
<sladen> does it not deserve its own package if it's fairly large?
<mdz> Kamion: I don't remember that; it's too late for that sort of thing
<mdz> sladen: likewsie
<Kamion> mdz: good
<jjesse> isn't ubuntu-docs only supposed to be the docs written by the docteam?
<mdz> jjesse: hmm, the package description does say that
<sivang> the book is written by some of the docteam people no?
<seb128> Kamion: what do you mean by "unpacked onto the CD"?
<jjesse> also just speaking of the kubuntu chapter, the html content isn't ready yet
<Kamion> seb128: never mind
<seb128> alright
<heno> i'm happy to put it in example-content
<seb128> as far as the destination pointed by the menu item is available I don't care ;)
<heno> (when we get acopy)
<jjesse> sivang: yes some of the stuff is being written by members of the doc team
<mdz> I have power now
<heno> seb128: I can make a dummy file now that you can point to
* pitti sings John Lennon's "Power to the people"
<mdz> heno: I'm fine with example-content as well, but we need the content
<sivang> heh
<mdz> I'll call silbs after the meeting
<seb128> heno: the issue is not to have a real file or not, it's just to not the filename to use
<silbs> hey, quit talking about me!
<seb128> s/not/know
<seb128> silbs: right, we need you ;)
<mdz> silbs: do you have the book content in hand?
<heno> seb128: right, so I can make a file which will act as the TOC for the chapters we include
<silbs> mdz: nope.  I told you in email on 5 May that it wouldn't be available till 23 May. I can check and get an update on that, but I don't have content now
<heno> silbs: but we have a rough idea of the form it wil take right?
<silbs> heno: we have sizes and we know it is html
<heno> silbs: a collectiojn of HTML and images
<heno> right
<heno> that should be ok
<silbs> heno: yes. I need to look up size but we have that
<heno> I'll make a dir call book
<mdz> O(megabytes)
<heno> and a dummy html file next to it
<mdz> heno: thanks, coordinate with seb128 to get the panel changed
<heno> mdz: ok
<silbs> Desktop chapters - 2.9MB each, Support chapter - around 2.3MB
<dholbach> heno: poke me for the upload - we can get the others typos etc fixed with that.
<heno> dholbach: yep
<mdz> ok
<mdz> so here's my list of disasters for next week:
<mdz> - ooo build failure
<mdz> - book excerpt
<mdz> - gnome-screensaver RUNNING_UNDER_GDM
<Keybuk> mdz: that last one's fixed
<mdz> Keybuk: sweet
<Riddell> heno: poke me too when uploaded, I'll see if I can add it to khelpcentre
<mdz> what else am I missing?
<Keybuk> helps if RUNNING_UNDER_GDM is in the allowed_env_vars[]  list :p
<heno> Riddell: ok
<mdz> oh, and
<mdz> - sounds
<mdz> - artwork
<mdz> (esp. icons)
<Kamion> kubuntu language packs are apparently not being installed by ubiquity at the moment; that's on my list for this afternoon
<Kamion> ^Wevening
<mdz> eek
<Mithrandir> ^Wnight^Wlate night ?
<Kamion> but I expect to be done with that by today
<mdz> is that a recent regression, or nobody noticed in the past few months?
<Kamion> people noticed but nobody shouted loud enough to get it to the top of my list
<Kamion> which, as you may have noticed, has been a bit long lately
<Kamion> anyway, I expect it's trivial, the infrastructure is all there for it
<mdz> ok
<mdz> anything else?
<Kamion> sounds like we're done
<pitti> happy free day tomorrow! :)
<seb128> happy free day ;)
* ajmitch thinks he'll work on bugs tomorrow :)
<mdz> indeed, rest up and try not to think about ubuntu for a few days ;-)
* pitti sits on top of a heap of bug corpses and is quite content
<Keybuk> I'm going to switch all of my computers off for the weekend
<bluefoxicy> (days are always free of course; hackers only work at night)
<Keybuk> well, probably not the mail server ;)
<mdz> if you think of any other disasters, please mail me
* sivang is currently killing a g-s-t bug
* bluefoxicy goes back to his dark corner.
<mdz> thanks, everyone
<Keybuk> mdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/notforwarded.html btw
<JaneW> thanks
<pitti> thanks, folks
* Mithrandir is looking forward to assaulting his tax return stuff.
<mvo> thanks
<Keybuk> mdz: uh, http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/reports/notforwarded.html
* pitti will join Mithrandir tomorrow
* mvo does not want to think about his taxes
* dholbach neither
<pitti> I don't want either, but I have to :/
<Mithrandir> ok, then I'm off. I'm starving.
<jbailey> Keybuk: Interesting report.
* simira too
<pitti> bye
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-24
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 23 May 07:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 06:00: Technical Board | 24 May 23:30: Xubuntu | 25 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 02:00: Community Council
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
* Klaidas-aWay is Away, Reason: ( eating ) | Since: ( Friday May 19 2006. 06:06:27 ) Xlack v2.1
<bluefoxicy> JaneW: ping
<lucasvo> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-25
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
<uniq> @schedule oslo
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Oslo: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-26
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 23 May 00:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 23:00: Technical Board | 24 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 19:00: Community Council
<stgraber> @schedule zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-05-27
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
<ferronica> hi room
<ferronica> any one tell me how to creat shortcut of home folder on desktop???
<ferronica> HELP ME
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<raphink> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
<freeflying> @schedule Shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 23 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 04:00: Technical Board | 24 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 00:00: Community Council
<Lure> @schedule Ljubljana
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
<sivang> re all
<siretart> @schedule Berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
<sladen> @schedule Mexico
<sladen> @schedule Mexico City
<sladen> @schedule Mexico City
<BlueT_> @schedule Taipei
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 23 May 05:00: Kubuntu | 24 May 04:00: Technical Board | 24 May 21:30: Xubuntu | 25 May 04:00: Edubuntu | 26 May 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 00:00: Community Council
<comm[A|n] der> @schedule berlin
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 22 May 23:00: Kubuntu | 23 May 22:00: Technical Board | 24 May 15:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 25 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 18:00: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council
<kwwii> hi
<allee> kwwii: hi
<Lure> hi allee & kwwii
<`6og> hi mob
<Riddell> I think I woke hobbsee up 
<kwwii> a sonar ping over the internet?
<`6og> Riddell: <grin>
<imbrandon> lol @ Riddell 
* imbrandon is just barly awake too , i had to set my alarm to get up this early ;)
<`6og> imbrandon: what time is it?
<`6og> *there
<allee> imbrandon: wher to you life?
<imbrandon> 4pm localtim BUT i work overnights
<linuxmonkey> what time is the meeting starting at?
<`6og> imbrandon: heh. 6.30 am here
<m-onkey> 23:05 here...
<Riddell> linuxmonkey: waiting on hobbsee
<allee> linuxmonkey: 4 min ago ;)
<Riddell> ah hah :)
<`6og> hey Hobbsee :)
<imbrandon> heya Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hello...
<linuxmonkey> lmao
<Hobbsee> skype sucks :P
<Riddell> lets start with who we are
<linuxmonkey> lol
<allee> tata!
* Riddell jonathan riddell
* Lure is Luka Renko
* allee Achim Bohnet
* Hobbsee is Sarah Hobbs, she thinks...
* kwwii is Kenneth Wimer
* m-onkey Carlos Diener
* toma is Tom Albers
* comm[A|n] der is Robert Mueller
* `6og Karl Goetz (usually)
* OculusAquilae is Bastian Holst
* imbrandon is Brandon Holtsclaw
* nixternal is Richard Johnson
<klichota> klichota is Krzysztof Lichota
* kmon Javier monteagudo, just a reader
* linuxmonkey is Terry Jacob (at least I think I am)
<Riddell> so this is our first meeting with a kubuntu council, who are me, toma, Hobbsee, allee 
<Riddell> doesn't seem like raphink or tonio are around
<Hobbsee> oh wow, so i really did need to be here
<Hobbsee> they'll probably come
<Riddell> agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
<Riddell> Hobbsee: your item first
<Hobbsee> wha?  i have an item?
<Riddell> according to the agenda you do
<Hobbsee> can we switch back to me when i'm slightly mroe awake?
<Riddell> sure
<Riddell> members!
<Riddell> imbrandon: seems you're first
<imbrandon> I dont have a long into but , I help alot on irc and learing to MOTU for kde
<Riddell> imbrandon: care to introduce yourself
<imbrandon> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/imbrandon
<imbrandon> intro*
* Riddell tries to find out how to work launchpad team membership
<crimsun> I can, of course, vouch for imbrandon taking an active role in universe-fixing for 6.06
<imbrandon> ;) bddebian has uploaded a few for me also
<Hobbsee> Riddell: with a brick :P
<allee> bddebian: you're here?
<Riddell> ok, I've got it now
<bddebian> Aye, I can speak for imbrandon.  Though I am not directly involved in kubuntu :-)
<Riddell> imbrandon: I don't think we've spoken much, how long have you been around #kubuntu-devel
<Riddell> crimsun, bddebian: what kind of stuff has he been doing?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: oh, so you did fix kvirc - thanks
<imbrandon> about 3 months now
<allee> bddebian: no problem ;)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: he's more in -motu - i've worked with him with the dh_iconcache fixes
<imbrandon> motly motu and #kubuntu irc stuff ;)
<bddebian> Aye dh_iconcache uploads
<Riddell> imbrandon: what have you been doing in #kubuntu?
<imbrandon> general help , like install problems and setting up restricted formats for people
<Riddell> imbrandon: you're not an op are you?
<imbrandon> gerearly helping the new people with thinga like sudo understanding and such
<imbrandon> Riddell, not as of yet no
<Riddell> well, we can fix that
<imbrandon> but i'm in #kubuntu and #kubuntu-offtopic about 6 houtrs a day on avarage
<Riddell> imbrandon: what did you fix for kvirc?
<Riddell> imbrandon: what kind of stuff happens in #kubuntu-offtopic?
<Hobbsee> fortunately, there doesnt seem much op'ing in kubuntu needed - which is good - #ubuntu is enough!
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, was having trubble getting it to compile with the dh_iconcache
<Riddell> hi Tonio_, we're discussing membership for imbrandon 
<Tonio_> I'm sorry to be so late.... hello everyone
<Red-Sox> Riddell: I'm on #kubuntu-offtopic quite often
<Tonio_> I'm just out of work....
<allee> Red-Sox: anything you can say about imbrandon?
<Red-Sox> allee: He helps out a lot for us newbies :P
<imbrandon> as i said i'm on irc helping arround 6 hours a day , mostly overnights CDT ( 6pm to about 4am )
<allee> Red-Sox: cool.  this needs lot's of patience
<Riddell> imbrandon: will you be able to help us with the RC and final release at all?
<imbrandon> yes
<Riddell> excellent :)
<imbrandon> i'm here for the long haul ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon tends to be one of the few people that helps around in #kubuntu - the ratio of newbies to people who know what they're talking about is very high
<`6og> imbrandon: CDT?
<Lure> imbrandon: you mention forums contributions - but link does not work
<`6og> Hobbsee: agreed
<Hobbsee> it's getting hard to get an answer in #kubuntu actually - i'll answer if i see it, and it's not too late for me to make sense...but i see questions go unanswered a lot
<imbrandon> lure, very few honestly ( there are only 3 post where i helped on the forums , but i couldent get the link working correct )
<Riddell> imbrandon: is that ubuntu forums or kubuntuforums.net?
<allee> Lure: afaiu you need an account there
<imbrandon> i dident know about kubuntuforums.net ;)
<imbrandon> or else i would have ( and wll from now on ) be there
<Riddell> imbrandon: how active are the kubuntu parts of ubuntu forums?
<imbrandon> very
<Riddell> good to know
<imbrandon> new post ever few minutes
<imbrandon> even over night
<kwwii> hehe, night for who?
<kwwii> :-)
<imbrandon> alot on xgl stuff and kde actualy ;)
<Riddell> well I've not heard much involvement from imbrandon before but what I'm hearing here is good and the testimonials are all positive
<Riddell> so I think a +1 from me
<toma> imbrandon: fubuntu-desktop?
<Tonio_> Riddell: yes, and he also did a quite interesting bunch of patches
* Hobbsee is debating saying yes, or asking for more contributions before membership...
<Riddell> any other questions/votes from council members?
<Lure> I think we need more people to help newbies in irc and forums - thsi is where Kubuntu is lacking
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: what are your plans for edgy?
<Hobbsee> Lure: +25
<allee> many others supported him.  +1 from me too. 
<Tonio_> +1 for me although I wasn't here at the begening
<kwwii> I know that the few questions I asked there were not properly answered
<Hobbsee> that's quorum, but i'd like the questions answered
<kwwii> so good people are needed in this respect
<Hobbsee> sorry, was a bit too asleep before
* imbrandon also Hobbsee ;)
<crimsun> Riddell: (sorry, phone conference) mainly bugfixes ranging from .desktop to merges from upstream
<crimsun> Riddell: plays well with others (team player), quick learner, quick to ask questions
<allee> Hobbsee: quote the questions 
<Riddell> imbrandon: any plans for edgy?  can I put you on my list of people to throw packaging problems at?
<Tonio_> imbrandon: ust a little question : what are your eventual projects for future contribution ?
<imbrandon> Riddell, definatly
<imbrandon> i plan on being very active in edgy and kde4
<toma> lets do one question at a time
<imbrandon> Tonio_,  i plan on concentrating on kde ( qt4 patches ) but i also lkike to look on malone and help where i can
<imbrandon> while ideling on irc heling new people
<Tonio_> imbrandon: great
<Riddell> Hobbsee, toma: time to vote I think
<toma> imbrandon: are you active for more then two months?
<imbrandon> toma about 3+ now 
<toma> imbrandon: did you sign the code of conduct?
<imbrandon> yes sir
<toma> imbrandon: what are your plans with fubuntu-desktop ?
<Riddell> fubuntu-desktop?
<imbrandon> it is just in VERY drafting right now but its mainly for my older systems ( 300mhx ) fluxbox desktop
<Riddell> ah, right
<imbrandon> Riddell, its a spec i submitted a few months ago
<toma> imbrandon: good, that will run on my tungsten ;-)
<Hobbsee> +1 from the stuff i see in -motu - i'd like to see you in #k-devel though :)
<toma> +1 for me
<imbrandon> mostly submitted the spec becouse there wasent cohesion in the ubuntu-lite area
<imbrandon> to kinda bring those guys togather
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, will do ( #k-devel )
<Riddell> seems like +1s all around
* allee still +1
<Riddell> thanks for taking the grilling imbrandon and congratulations on being the first kubuntu-member
<Tonio_> ack for me
<`6og> hm. 1100 instances of imbrandon in my xchat logs
* imbrandon thansk everyone ;)
<Lure> imbrandon: congrats!
<Tonio_> imbrandon: welcome aboard
<`6og> contrats imbrandon:)
<allee> imbrandon: congrats!
<Hobbsee> congratulations imbrandon 
<Riddell> I spot kwwii is now added to our agenda
<kwwii> :-)
<imbrandon> ;)
<Riddell> kwwii: care to introduce yourself?
<Hobbsee> let's say no :P
<kwwii> love too! (/me loves to talk)
<Tonio_> let's go kwwii
<Hobbsee> kwwii: go for it
<kwwii> well, I am kenneth wimer, been around linux for a long while
<kwwii> worked for another major linux company for 7 years doing all the graphics
<kwwii> kde member, kde-hci member, kde-artists ring-master or such
<bddebian> w00t, congrats imbrandon.
<kwwii> since about a 6-8 months using kubuntu
<kwwii> in the meantime, a ubuntu-art member
<OdyX> congrats imbrandon
<kwwii> did lots of stuff for dapper
<kwwii> learning deb packaging recently
<kwwii> :-)
<Riddell> well I know kwwii pretty well, I don't have any questions
* Tonio_ begs kwwii's pardon for not beeing there to help him on that point...
<Riddell> anyone got questions about kwwii, he did all the dapper artwork for kubuntu
<kwwii> Tonio_: it is really not *that* hard
<Hobbsee> sure, what's the edgy artwork going to look like?  :P
<kwwii> hehe
<Riddell> full disclosure: kwwii is contracted by canonical at the moment
<Tonio_> kwwii: depends on what to package ;)
<kwwii> well, packaging artwork is pretty easy
<kwwii> I hope that I can take over packaging all my artwork myself
<kmon> kwwii: are you following the recent proposals for usplash in dapper?
* Riddell suspects kwwii is
<kwwii> kmon: yes...long story there
<kwwii> in fact, 3 of those pics come from me
<kmon> any plans there or is it a too long story to tell now? ;P
<Riddell> kmon: canonical contracted kwwii to make the ubuntu usplash, but nobody told the ubuntu-art community
<Hobbsee> oh dear...
<imbrandon> ouch
<linuxmonkey> ouch
* Hobbsee hedges a bet that they didnt like that...
* kwwii is glad that Riddell said that
<`6og> mmm. (again?)
<kwwii> Hobbsee: you can say that loudly
<kwwii> and I had no idea there was a ubuntu-art list, etc
<kmon> so it's a tricky situation
<kmon> ok
<Hobbsee> hehe - not too loudly, i value my life :P
<kwwii> so in the meantime things are a bit better
<kwwii> I guess the same mistakes won't be made for edgy
<kwwii> s/guess/hope
<Hobbsee> +1 based on the artwork contributions - looking forward to seeing what happens in edgy
<linuxmonkey> lol was about to say or will they! lol
<kmon> kwwii: ok, thanks for answering
<kwwii> kmon: no prob, thanks for asking :-)
<toma> kwwii: do you work on kde stuff now as well, or only ?ubuntu ?
<Tonio_> +1 based of artwork contribution, work done for the linux tag, and because I can't say no to someone that can drink more beer than I do !
<kwwii> toma: yepp, I am part of the oxygen team
<kwwii> how could I miss adding that!?
<kmon> hehe
<Hobbsee> kwwii: can we sneak some of that stuff in for edgy?  :P
<toma> kwwii: just helping you ...
<kwwii> Hobbsee: hopefully we will have a release announcement shortly before the paris meeting
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: hehe
<toma> kwwii: did you sign the code of conduct?
<Hobbsee> kwwii: oh good :)
<kwwii> toma: definitely
<Riddell> +1 from me for kubuntu artwork, top linuxtag help and oxygen goodness
<Hobbsee> kwwii: come to think of it, do you have a wiki page at all?
<kwwii> kwwii.blogspot.com :-)
<Hobbsee> er, according to launchpad, kwwii's not an ubuntero
<kwwii> sh put it on some webpage somewhere too
<Tonio_> kwwii: Hobbsee's right, would be nice to have a wiki page to present and resume your work and contributions
<toma> +1 for me, although a wiki page describing yourself is badly missing
<Tonio_> launchpad page can do the job too
<Riddell> kwwii: you should make a wiki page at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KennethWimer with a short description of yourself
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/people/kwwii
<Riddell> allee: vote?
<kwwii> I can take care fo that, no problem :-)
<Hobbsee> i'm looking at the right page?
<kmon> kwwii: are you planning anything related to kubuntu website after dapper is released? I remember Riddell talking about something
<allee> Riddell: can we without signed conduct?
<Hobbsee> Ubuntero:  Not yet 
<kwwii> kmon: we made a new title graphic
<Riddell> kmon: we have a new version of the logo to put on the site
<Riddell> allee: yes we can vote
<allee> kwwii: then +1 of course!!
<Riddell> allee: he won't get into the kubuntu-members team without signing the conduct, same goes for imbrandon 
<imbrandon> i signed already ;)
<Riddell> +1s all round again, congatulations kwwii 
<Riddell> thanks imbrandon 
<`6og> congrats kwwii
<kwwii> :-)
<imbrandon> congrats kwwii 
<Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
<kwwii> thanks!
<allee> kwwii: congrats!
<Lure> kwwii: congrats and looking forward for edgy bling ;-)
<toma> Riddell: maybe i should be there?
<Riddell> ah yes, there's an issue
<Hobbsee> toma: maybe you should - arent you supposed to be on the committee???
<Riddell> toma is our KDE link on the committee
<Hobbsee> surely membership comes before kcc?
* Hobbsee wants to hear more about toma anyway - which bits do you work on?
<toma> well, I'm working on RSIBreak, i was working on digiKam
<toma> i was a dutch translator before that
<allee> toma: and you'll start (partially) again ;)
<Tonio_> toma: aren't you working on codeine at the moment ?
<Hobbsee> congrats kwwii, by the way...
<toma> Tonio_: i worked on a media:/ library
<kwwii> Hobbsee: thnx :-)
<Tonio_> toma: great ;) codeine is a marvellous player, definitly
<Riddell> toma: what makes you interested in Kubuntu?
<toma> Tonio_: and tried to implement that in codeine, but upstream implemented it differently
<toma> next to that, i did some packaging on alioth (debian). learning from allee
<toma> and code kde-nl member
<toma> core
<kmon> congrats kwwii
<Hobbsee> ack, coughing fit...cant vote or read for a min...
<toma> Riddell:  i think linux should be easier for the users and i'm seeing kubuntu making a good efford doing so
* imbrandon seconds that
<toma> Riddell: so i want to help in that area and focuessed on KDE
<Riddell> toma: have I ever met you in real life?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: surely you should remember that?
<kwwii> Riddell: I think we both have
<kwwii> :-)
<Riddell> Hobbsee: so many of these kde-nl members I loose track
<allee> toma: do not forget to mention you upstream work on kipi-plugins
<Hobbsee> oh, fair enough
* Lure likes more KDE people involved in Kubuntu which know how to get around in upstream...
<Tonio_> Riddell: toma was with us in the meeting with kde and mark :)
<toma> Riddell: no
<toma> allee: ah, yes, thanks
<Tonio_> toma: uh ?
<toma> Tonio_: ?
<Hobbsee> mmm...upstream...wish their bug tracker was faster...
<allee> Tonio_: if he was. I'll kick him because he didn't say hello ;)
<Tonio_> seems I missed you with someone else..... sorry
<Tonio_> toma: so many new persons meet there ;)
<imbrandon> isnt it mMm .... Hobbsee !?! heh
<kwwii> toma: which kde meetings have you attended?
<Tonio_> shame on me
<toma> Tonio_: launchpad knows me from template generation to my surprise
<toma> s/Tonio_//
<toma> kwwii: in the netherlands: all, no others.
<kwwii> hrm, guess I was wrong then about us having met :-)
<Riddell> toma get a +1 from me for bringing KDE knowledge to kubuntu council, but I think we'd expect more kubuntu contribution for most members so I understand if others vote the other way
* Hobbsee would like to wait, and see more contributions, but is then happy to approve both membership and kcc status
<toma> yes, i can not say I have done a lot for kubuntu untill now, but I will be more active, you have to know that the council is a bit of a surprise for me.
<Hobbsee> toma: did you sign the COC at all?  is *anyone* showing up as having signed it?
<Riddell> toma: I'm not asking for more kubuntu involvement, as I say we value you for the upstream involvement
<toma> Hobbsee: yes i have
<Riddell> allee, Tonio_?
<Tonio_> +1 for me, based on the future and the specific case of toma (cc member before beeing a member)
* OdyX did sign the COC, but won't apply for membership.
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, mine should show up as signed , i singed it weeks ago
<allee> Riddell: I trust/know toma.  +1
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah yes, you're shown
<Riddell> toma is in the positive then, congratulations and welcome to kubuntu membership
<apokryphos> it's a good idea for anyone with a launchpad account to sign the coc
<Tonio_> toma: welcome aboard
<OdyX> congrats toma
<`6og> wd toma
<Riddell> any other members today?
<toma> YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH , you guys are great! thanks all!
<imbrandon> welcome toma 
<Hobbsee> I hope this doesnt set a precident of us approving members without decent wiki pages/launchpad pages :P
<Hobbsee> welcome toma 
<Lure> Riddell: I got ubuntu membership inbetween, but would like kubuntu emblem ;-)
* Hobbsee finds it very hard to vote that way
<imbrandon> i think its was only in the case of cc first ;) 
<Riddell> Lure: yes, I'll approve yours after the meeting
<Lure> Riddell: thanks
<Riddell> Hobbsee: back to your item?
<allee> Hobbsee: I agree.  
<toma> Hobbsee: i'll make a nice page
<Hobbsee> okay - we have a few days till release - what do you want us to work on until then?
<Hobbsee> when do the repos freeze?
<Hobbsee> toma: oh good :)
<linuxmonkey> with preaty pink flowers right toma
<linuxmonkey> j/k
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee was about to say that
<imbrandon> like the priority of each item, before release
<toma> linuxmonkey: pink flowers?
<Riddell> main is already frozen, all uploads should mentioned on DapperReleaseThing or approved by mdz
<Riddell> DapperReleaseRadar
<Riddell> universe I expect will remain open until next tuesday
<Hobbsee> okay - so any point working on bugs?
<Riddell> in universe I think bugfixes are fine
<Hobbsee> okay, cool, thanks
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, yea but no upload for main unless mdz approves and its major
<Riddell> and in main important bugfixes where it's obvious they won't break other things are fine too
<Riddell> but get approval first
* Hobbsee doesnt plan on bugfixing in main this late :P
<Hobbsee> okay, cool
<Riddell> any volunteers for making a kubuntu version of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/Short ?
<Lure> Riddell: what about testing? Is there plan for wider RC testing?
<allee> Hobbsee: every low risk bug fix is worth fixes
<imbrandon> Riddell,  sure  i can sdo that this evening
<allee> s/s/ing
<Riddell> imbrandon: thanks
<OdyX> Riddell: I can probably take it (adaptation)
* OdyX 's slow
<Hobbsee> do we have more people applying for MOTU status in edgy?  i'm always on the lookout for other uploaders :P
<Riddell> Lure: tonight's nightly build will be the first RC canidate, please start testing sfrom tomorrow (european) morning
<OdyX> imbrandon: mark me as "re-reader"...
<imbrandon> ok OdyX 
<Lure> Riddell: ok, results should be reported to wiki?
<Tonio_> Riddell: I will perform a bunch of tests before the end of the week
<allee> Hobbsee: I'll will apply.  But not sure if I'm accepted
<Riddell> imbrandon: please prepare https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentKubuntu for RC if you can
<Riddell> Lure: we'll put them on that wiki page
<imbrandon> Riddell, ok
<Tonio_> Riddell: I assume the big priority is to test kubuntu-express widely no ?
<Riddell> Tonio_: ubiquity, definately
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay, is it supposed to be able to resize ntfs partition and install dual boot within grub automatically ?
<Tonio_> this is a big test to make :)
<Riddell> Tonio_: it should be able to do anything partman can do
<Riddell> so it's the same as the text installer
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, by the time edgy is nearing motu ready i'll be applying for edgy motu ( i need to get a bit more under my belt first )
* OdyX can't risk it's computers. :(
<Tonio_> Riddell: okay I will test this on wednesday
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: allee:  cool.
<Riddell> Tonio_: good luck
<`6og> Tonio_: colin recently fixed an ntfs issue, so make sure you get a recent cd
* Hobbsee doenst want to risk her only computer.
<kmon> Riddell: does ubiiquity support lvm?
<Riddell> kmon: no, it doesn't
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, vmware ;)
<Tonio_> Riddell: well I have machines at work with a ghostcast server, so I can crash them, that's not an issue :)
<Riddell> you need the old text installer for that
<OdyX> imbrandon: vmware ? qemu too ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: good point, i'd not thought of that.  might have space troubles with that though
<Riddell> anyone have major bugs we should be aware of?
<Tonio_> `6og: well I will use a daily image
<Hobbsee> Riddell: the one about not eating the windows partition
<Tonio_> Riddell: I just noticed toonight a problem with adept
<OdyX> Riddell: well.. konqueror crashing with multimedia...
<Hobbsee> :P
<Riddell> Hobbsee: what's that?
<Riddell> Tonio_: what's that?
<Tonio_> it has problem with "graphical" postinst scripts, like with the new java packages in multiverse of postfix
<Riddell> OdyX: does it still use kaffeine as the plugin?
<Hobbsee> Riddell: dont worry, i was joking
<OdyX> Riddell: nope...
<Riddell> Hobbsee: phew :)
<Tonio_> you can see the disclaimer page, but it freezes
<Riddell> OdyX: so it's using kmplayer?
<OdyX> Riddell: I can give you 1000's of Konqui crashing pages...
<OdyX> Riddell: yep.
<`6og> Hobbsee: sounds like what i was just talking bout ;)
<Riddell> Tonio_: what does that use?
<Riddell> not debconf?
<allee> Riddell: wiki.kubuntu.org keeps asking to accept certificate.  Hope that's fixable on the server and need no kdebase tweaks
<Riddell> allee: I've a note here to poke sysadmin to fix that
<Hobbsee> oh grrr...can we get that fixed?  it's annoying!
<Riddell> allee: but it's also a konqueror bug
<Tonio_> Riddell: I think so, but I need to test a bit widely, I just saw that at 21h at work....
<Hobbsee> i'ts in firefox too
<Riddell> allee: please report upstream if you have a moment
<toma> allee: i'm seeing the same on several of my own servers. really annoying
<klichota> In qemu I am seeing kdesktop crash right after logging in
<Riddell> klichota: live CD?
<klichota> yes
<Riddell> maybe I should give qemu another try
<klichota> But in Vmware it is OK, so it is qemu fault
<linuxmonkey> i know something that needs fixing, the restrictedformat wiki for kubuntu cause its mostly all about ubuntu.
<allee> toma: I only see it with wiki.kubuntu.org  (no shttp server here)
<Hobbsee> Riddell: having kdesktop crash when right clicking a file to move it somewhere else is kidna annoying - having to kill kdesktop, and restart it
<Riddell> linuxmonkey: it's a wiki, please do fix it up for kubuntu
<Tonio_> Riddell: looks like there was an update for adept today...
<Hobbsee> apart from various screensaver bugs, i dont recall anything else major
<OdyX> linuxmonkey: I can take a precise look on that if you want.
<allee> toma: so maybe you in better position to: [00:02]  <Riddell> allee: please report upstream if you have a moment
<allee> toma: I can't add much info
<Riddell> OdyX: that would be cool if you did
<Tonio_> can someone try to install sun-java5-bin and confirm he can accept the disclaimer with adept ?
<OdyX> Riddell: noting that for tomorrow morning
<toma> allee: np
<imbrandon> Tonio_, i did last night but i will again if needed
<imbrandon> no problems
<Tonio_> imbrandon: did that work for you ?
<linuxmonkey> thanx OdyX
<imbrandon> yes
<Riddell> right, any other business?
<Tonio_> imbrandon: okay, maybe that was a problem with my machine only....
<imbrandon> *hopes*
* Hobbsee tries to rember any others
<klichota> What is the requirement for memory for live CD?
<toma> Riddell: did you get responses to the newsletter?
<klichota> Help states it is 128MB
<Hobbsee> that newsletter was cool :)
<toma> indeed
<Riddell> toma: nope, but if anyone has suggestions for the next one please add to https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuNewsletter
<`6og> 128 fro dapper? eek
<klichota> I really doubt anybody can install with 128 MB
<allee> Riddell: Hobbsee suggested to be more strict about membership formalities  (wiki, coc etc)
<imbrandon> Riddell, i'm going to get off line for about 2 hours but i dont mind getting any other wiki pages ready for RC just shoot me an email ( brandon@imbrandon.com ) or catch me in 2 hous
<kmon> Riddell: I've added a post in distrowatch pointing out the newsletter and sent a mail to the fridge devs, so it gets more widespread
<Riddell> oh yes, jjesse added that kubuntu-docs needs translations
<Tonio_> klichota: according to my tests, it is usable with 128, but 256 is better to be comfortable
<OdyX> klichota: AFAIK, it whould make it.
<klichota> 128 MB + swap?
<klichota> Or just 128 MB
<Tonio_> just 128
<Tonio_> that was slow, but working
<Riddell> allee: CoC can easily be done after meetings, just as long as they don't get in the launchpad team without signing it
<klichota> Ubiquity also works?
<Tonio_> although test install cd is better for low memory machines
<Tonio_> klichota: tremendously slow, but no crash ;)
<Riddell> as for wiki pages Hobbsee may have a point there, I know what kwwii and toma have done but not all members do
<klichota> Good :)
<klichota> I will try to test it tomorrow
<Hobbsee> Riddell: not exactly what i meant - i'd hate others to get the impression that they should go for kubuntu membership, just because we accept easier than other people.
<klichota> Last time it didn't work
<kwwii> Riddell: the truth is that a lot of that information is well hidden on the wiki page, if you do not know in advance it is hard to find
<Tonio_> klichota: anyway, 128 MB is not adapted to kde nowadays...
<Lure> Hobbsee: +1
<Hobbsee> of course, having worked with the people before is a substitute, but that's probably not what a lot of people see, not hanging around in -devel
<Riddell> Hobbsee: part of the point of us doing it is we know better who is good for membership than the ubuntu council
<klichota> Yes, but then Requirements section in help should be changed
* Hobbsee suspect she's not making sense
<Hobbsee> Riddell: i know, but we dont know everythign :P
* Hobbsee certainly doesnt
<Riddell> Hobbsee: can you put a notice on Kubuntu/Meetings that people going for membership need to have a wiki page
<Hobbsee> Riddell: sure, will do
<Lure> Hobbsee: and link to NewMembers (or whatever is the page)
<Riddell> kmon: thanks for poking distrowatch and fridge
<Hobbsee> Lure: link's already there - i added that a couple of days ago
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: Riddell: and a launchpad account with code of conduct signed too
<Hobbsee> but yeah, writing that for kubuntu specific stuff is probably a good idea
<Lure> Hobbsee: sorry - did not notice it...
<imbrandon> Riddell, thats there ( and a link to newmembers ) but it needs to be updated for kubuntu ( its ubuntu specific so far )
<Hobbsee> Lure: not a problem
* kmon leaves, goodnight everyone and cogratulations to the new members
<Riddell> any other business?
<Tonio_> nite kmon
<Riddell> date and time of next meeting?
<`6og> Riddell: where can i find discusion about why Kubuntu was split out re membeship?
<Riddell> `6og: it was sabdfl's idea
<Hobbsee> i'd love to move to around 12-2pm UTC or so - not being a morning person, but i'm fine with that waiting a few months..
* allee is in holiday for 10 days starting Friday evening
<Riddell> me and ogra brought it up at community council a few weeks ago
<Tonio_> Riddell: arround 6th june would be good for dapper feedback
<imbrandon> yea 6th sounds good to me , gives time for dapper to be released
<ogra> that move was made to take the load of the CC 
<imbrandon> and used
<Riddell> how does euopean daytime suit people?
<imbrandon> fine with me ( just so i know in advance so i can set an alarm clock ;)
<imbrandon> like today ;)
<Hobbsee> heh
<Riddell> so 6th June at 14:00UTC?
<OdyX> Riddell: you mean 20, 21 UTC ?
<allee> Riddell: should be managable.  But I can't promised that I'm not interrupted
<Tonio_> Riddell: daytime isn't nice for me since I don't have irc access at work
<Hobbsee> Riddell: okay, can that idea, and revisit it in a few months...
<Hobbsee> keep it at 21UTC
<Tonio_> Riddell: and as the network admin is a kind of sisco killer I wouldn't take the risk of ssh-tunnelling :)
* Hobbsee will just get woken up early :P
<Riddell> 6th June at 21UTC?
<Lure> Tonio_: does 8001 port work?
<allee> Hobbsee: admireable!
<Tonio_> Lure: of course not :) so the only solution is http or ssh tunnelling, but well.....
<Tonio_> Riddell: fine with me
<Riddell> ok, agreed for now, we can change it if there's a problem
<Hobbsee> wed morning, 2 weeks...yep, okay
<Hobbsee> allee: hush ;P
<Riddell> thanks everyone, congratulations to the new members
<Tonio_> congrats all :)
<Riddell> and test test test until release!
<Hobbsee> congratulations all
<kwwii> thanks from me to everyone for voting me in !
<toma> minutes anyone?
* Hobbsee tests, blows up her system, and blames Riddell for it
<imbrandon> thanks, ok i'm off to get about 2 more hours of sleep , i'll be back on irc in a while 
<OdyX> nite imbrandon
* `6og goes to bed. later all
<OdyX> toma: "minutes" = ?
<Riddell> toma: 3 memberships and 1 general discussion, don't know if there's much to minute
<Tonio_> ` nite :)
<Hobbsee> `6og: pitiful.  it's 7.45am there.
<imbrandon> OdyX, logs
<Riddell> OdyX: summary of decisions
<OdyX> imbrandon: making summary ?
<Lure> toma: I think log of meeting is put to wiki anyhow, not sure if minutes are needed...
<OdyX> Riddell: I could make that tomorrow too
<imbrandon> no i dident plan on it but i can
* OdyX tries to involve.
<OdyX> :D
<`6og> Hobbsee: 7.48 by my clock. remember i waws up at 6.15 to get here. 
<Hobbsee> heh
<Riddell> OdyX: see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings/Minutes
<OdyX> Riddell: Yeah. Read those.
<Tonio_> Riddell: no minute required ;) I don't want everyone on the wiki to discover I have a red fish like memory ;)
<Riddell> OdyX: if you could make one for this meeting that would be cool
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: that's why clients log...
<OdyX> Riddell: If you say me "make it", I'll make it.
<Hobbsee> *scrolls up for what she was going to do for the wiki*
<toma> OdyX: great! 
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: argh !!
<Riddell> OdyX: do it baby!
<OdyX> Riddell: Thanks. All honour for me.
<OdyX> :D
<Riddell> OdyX: fancy e-mailing fridge-devel with the date of the next meeting too?
<OdyX> fridge-devel ?
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: what's the address of your wiki page, please?
<OdyX> I can. I'll grab the archives to look for latest and adapt... :D
<OdyX> Riddell: ^^ I'm not on that list, but archives are public, huh ?
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnthonyMercatante
<Tonio_> what for ?
<Riddell> OdyX: fridge-devel doesn't need you on the list
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: thanks.  wanted to use your page as an example wiki page, if that's okay with you
<OdyX> Riddell: yeah, OK. But I can't see archives for now.
<Riddell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/fridge-devel
<Riddell> there's no public archives
<Riddell> it's just the list you send to when you have a story or meeting time for them
<OdyX> OK. Fine
<Tonio_> Hobbsee: sure, although it isn't up to date
<OdyX> I'll make custom message then. :D
<Hobbsee> Tonio_: thanks :)
<kwwii> night all...got an early morning tomorrow
<allee> kwwii: nite
<kwwii> night allee
<Hobbsee> night kwwii 
<OdyX> Nite all !
<klichota> Bye everyone, I am going back to preparing translations for tomorrows KDE release :)
<Hobbsee> klichota: yay!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Keybuk] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 6 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 25 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<Keybuk> no, you're wrong Ubugtu ;)
<robitaille> @topic
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 13:30 UTC: Xubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<Howdy125> FYI .. flight7 clean install and just updated .. when setting the icon size to 75% in nautilus the icons become huge .. 
<neuralis> Howdy125: wrong channel; file a bug
<vinboy> hi
<vinboy> is the release candidate out yet?
<sfllaw> vinboy: Tomorrow, I think.
<vinboy> COOL
<vinboy> around wat time?
<sfllaw> No idea.
<vinboy> thx
<jelkner> Is there an edubuntu meeting this morning?
<ogra> jelkner, not officially
<ogra> jelkner, we wanted to do a rather nonofficial one in #edubuntu
<jelkner> ogra: is that going on now?
<ogra> (since we're all too busy testing CD installs anyway, nobody was after making a huge meeting)
<jelkner> ogra: thanks
<jelkner> btw.  i'm lovin the new version! ;-)
<jelkner> props to whomever did the edubuntu-homies artwork too
<jelkner> my students like the way it looks
<jelkner> and things are working very well
<jelkner> ok, then, if there is no meeting, i'll catch ya'll later...
<ogra> jelkner, what about the chalkboard, it was very contoversal, nobody apart from the management liked it ...
<jelkner> ogra: i think it looks fine
<ogra> (i'd have loved to use the homies as default rather)
<jelkner> but i haven't seen any students choose it
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok
<jelkner> ogra: i'm with you on that
<jelkner> i even found out about the homies artwork because students started selecting it on their own
<jelkner> that's a good sign ;-)
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> cbx33, hear what jelkner says !
<ogra> jelkner, cbx33's wife made it for us :)
<jelkner> she did a great job
<ogra> yeah
<jelkner> ok, i need to get back to work... what is next?
<jelkner> when do we meet
<ogra> release :)
<jelkner> cool
<ogra> we'll have a wrap up meeting next wed. i think)
<cbx33> Oh wow
<cbx33> exellent thanks jelkner 
<ogra> but no promises, its 24h before release then :)
<cbx33> I'll let the missus know, shes ill in bed today so that'll cheer her up
<jelkner> cbx33: no, thank your wife!
<jelkner> cbx33: sorry to hear that, hope she feels better soon
<jelkner> i'll check back in next week
<cbx33> she's feeling a lot better than yesterday
<jelkner> cya then...
<cbx33> see ya jelkner 
<Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 24 May 16:30: Xubuntu | 24 May 23:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 19:00: Community Council | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu
<cbx33> unofficial edubuntu meeting in #edubuntu
<JaneW> **NOTE** thiere is not edubuntu meeting here, there is an informal discussion going on in #edubuntu
<jsgotangco> unofficial??
<jsgotangco> doh
<JaneW> **NOTE** there is no edubuntu meeting here, there is an informal discussion going on in #edubuntu
<flint> JaneW, I know that..
<flint> Just force of habit.  The later afternoon time is not that good for me right now.  
<flint> I am renovating a house.
<pips1> flint, you aren't going to join us in edubuntu then?
<pips1> come along!
<pips1> :-)
<flint> I will likely make it next week, and will try for this week.  This split thing is not good for me.
<flint> join #edubuntu
<flint> oops...
<pips1> :)
<flint> ah well...
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Xubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu
<thierryn> anyone from xubuntu there?
<DaSkreech> Hello is there a log of the last Kubuntu meeting?
<Lure> DaSkreech: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings/2006-05-22
<DaSkreech> THanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 May 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 31 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 06 Jun 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 14:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule Italy/Rome
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<sivang> @schdule Israel
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 30 May 19:00: Community Council | 31 May 15:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 23:00: Technical Board | 07 Jun 00:00: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* [PUPPETS] Gonzo waves at dholbach.
<dholbach> [PUPPETS] Gonzo: ALTER!
<GNAM> @schedule Europe/Rome
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 30 May 18:00: Community Council | 31 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jun 22:00: Technical Board | 06 Jun 23:00: Kubuntu | 08 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-21
<shawarma> @schedule Copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<shawarma> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2007, 11:30:36 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 day
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<arualavi> @schedule Andorra
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-22
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 22 May 22:00: Technical Board | 23 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 14:00: MOTU | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team
<highvoltage> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 May 20:00: Technical Board | 23 May 20:00: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00: MOTU | 27 May 14:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team
<welshbyte> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: May 22 2007, 18:13:13 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 hour 46 minutes
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Technical Board | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<__keybuk> mjg59: I don't have the context for that mail you sent
<mdz> __keybuk: forwarding to techboard
<mdz> sent
<mdz> we're up to date with MOTU applications from the MOTU council
<mdz> and I'm not aware of any core-dev applications
<dholbach> Hobbsee was proposed for core-dev
<mdz> __keybuk: has anyone reminded sabdfl already?
<mdz> dholbach: oh, did I miss an email?
<dholbach> and was recommended by a few people
<dholbach> mdz: the problem is that the process is not clear yet
<mdz> hence your agenda item
<ajmitch> LaserJock also wanted in, iirc
<LaserJock> oh sweet, not too late
<mdz> dholbach: I think it should be handled similarly to ubuntu-dev
<dholbach> passing on recommendations to the MC works fine via mailing list
<dholbach> what do you think? how many recommendations by the MC would you want for that? all 5 or a simple majority?
<dholbach> (before we pass it on to the TB)
<LaserJock> mdz: so would there be any IRC component? or all email?
<mdz> a simple majority is fine, though of course we want to hear from developers outside of the council as well
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> I'm happy with that - I'll drop you a mail with the summary about Hobbsee and make sure the new process is in the wiki docs and announced on the list
<dholbach> does anybody else have questions regarding the new core-dev process?
<mdz> LaserJock: I think that in most cases we'll want to do an interview as well
<mdz> the application should arrive via email, and we can make arrangements from there
<ajmitch> dholbach: yes, what is it? :) are people meant to put in an application to the MC?
<LaserJock> well, I just would like to be clear on the whole process
<LaserJock> not just the MC part
<mdz> I think it's more useful to pass an application via email than to add a line item to the TB agenda
<LaserJock> ah
<dholbach> ajmitch: I don't think it matters in which order we get those mails, as long as we have recommendations and somebody who wants to become core-dev :)
<dholbach> ajmitch: so if it's an application or a recommendation first shouldn't matter
<ajmitch> right, as long as it's clear *what* is needed
<dholbach> mdz: I think I'm happy with my agenda point now.
<mdz> what's needed is the same thing as always: testimonials, information about the candidate's activities, demonstrated knowledge and understanding of Ubuntu development in accord with UbuntuDevelopers, etc.
<mdz> traditionally we would collect some of the information on a wiki page
<mdz> and I think that's probably still a good idea
<mdz> putting it someplace public makes it easy for future candidates to understand what's expected
<mdz> so I'm thinking of a process something like this:
<mjg59> Sorry, I'm here now
<mdz> motu discusses their intent with the motu council, gets consensus that they are ready to apply, motu council collects relevant information and submits in a bundle to TB via a wiki page, TB review and respond, usually setting up an appointment to attend a meeting
<mdz> (I just heard from sabdfl; he's unavailable)
<mdz> __keybuk,mjg59: comments on that proposal?
<__keybuk> that sounds exactly like the procedure I thought we agreed on :p
<mjg59> Yes, I think that seems reasonable
<mdz> __keybuk: I don't recall that we were explicit about core-dev
<mdz> only about motu
<__keybuk> maybe it's just sensible enough that it sounds like we ought to have agreed on it :p
<mdz> well then, ok
<mdz> it just needs to be documented then
<dholbach> I'll take care of that
<mdz> dholbach: would you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewDeveloperProcess ?
<mjg59> dholbach: Thanks
<dholbach> de rien
<mdz> it's pretty close already
<LaserJock> I guess I'm a little unsure about the "motu council collects relevant information" part
<mdz> the only thing we changed was the way information is passed around, and the order
<mdz> turning up for a meeting as the first thing has always been an obstacle
<mdz> Hobbsee, if I'm not mistaken, would normally be asleep during TB meetings
<mdz> and we don't want to discourage people from applying because of silly things like time zones
<mjg59> The impression I get is that the new process is working fairly well for MOTU
<mdz> __keybuk and I independently noted that the meeting time ought to be adjusted for DST
<mdz> mjg59: indeed, so we're following that lead in a way
<mdz> I think it's a good idea to do more by email
<mdz> which raises further questions about the meeting
<mdz> we could, e.g., schedule the meeting based on who submits agenda items / applies for core-dev / etc. each time
<mdz> to maximize attendance, at the expense of predictability
<ajmitch> with all the TB in one TZ (I think), is that practical?
<mjg59> ajmitch: The plan is for the TB to be extended
<mdz> in general, any two time zones can be accomodated at once
<ajmitch> mjg59: so I heard, eventually :)
<mdz> so TB + applicant is a good combination
<__keybuk> mjg59: the one nomination sabdfl has received so far happens to *also* be in the Europe/London timezone :p
<mjg59> Ha
<mdz> it shouldn't be necessary to have third parties turn up at the meeting, generall. the tech board can raise any questions they have for them by email
<mjg59> We could send mdz back to the US
<mjg59> But anyway
<mdz> so what would you like to do?  move back an hour to stay at 20h London time?
<mdz> hold meetings only as needed?
<mjg59> 21:00 is certainly a little too late to be convenient for me
<mdz> regular meetings are good to keep us in contact and active
<mjg59> I'd be concerned that holding meetings as needed would make the TB less visible
<mdz> if we all turn up and have nothing to talk about, that's not much better :-)
<mjg59> We don't want people who submit items to feel as if they're causing us inconvenience by forcing a meeting to be scheduled
<mdz> good point
<somerville32> If we don't have anything to talk about, we could just have some tea instead.
<mjg59> As a compromise, leave meetings scheduled but cancel them unless there's something on the agenda?
<mdz> we could hold meetings at 20h, but be open to adjusting to accomodate someone with an important cause (like joining core-dev)
<mjg59> Yes, that seems fair
<mdz> __keybuk: thoughts?
<LaserJock> well, you could always send an email to -devel-discuss asking for things for the TB to talk about ;-)
<mjg59> I think people might also prefer a more obvious mechanism for causing things to be raised
<mdz> more obvious than sending email to technical-board?
<__keybuk> I think that opportunistically cancelling or rescheduling the meeting would create the same effect as not scheduling in the first place
<mjg59> I think the docs suggest just adding things to the agenda?
<mdz> they do
<mdz> but email works as well if not better, I think
<mjg59> Right
<mjg59> Then we should fix them to state that :)
<mdz> I'll take that action item
<mjg59> It also gives us the opportunity to ask people for more details
<__keybuk> I also thing that the value of regular meetings of the TB is less than the value of regular meetings of the CC, since the latter is primarily community-driven wherease we're primarily resolving technical disputes (which happily come up hardly at all)
<mjg59> I will note that we're poor at cancelling meetings even when it's fairly clear that they're not going ahead
<mjg59> Like during UDS
<mjg59> Right now the schedule shows us having one during Ubuntu Live
<mdz> (TechnicalBoardAgenda updated)
<mjg59> mdz: The ubuntu.com page wants updating as well
<__keybuk> I think that my preference would be to request matters via e-mail
<mjg59> Yes, I think I agree
<__keybuk> and if the matter requires online discussion, arrange a meeting on IRC to discuss that item
<somerville32> Isn't it entirely possible that TB members could subscribe to changes for that page?
<__keybuk> rather than have a fixed schedule for the meetings
<somerville32> Ah.
<mdz> mjg59: good catch, I'll email webmaster about that
<mjg59> somerville32: It's slightly irritating to then have to track that back to somebody's email address
<mjg59> And relevant people can't easily be Cc:ed to begin with
<__keybuk> I also think that we should be more diligent about announcing resolutions, at least to devel or devel-announce -- including new team memebrs
<mdz> agreed
<mdz> we need a secretary
<mjg59> Any volunteers? :)
* pochu poinst to Seveas :p
<mdz> I'm sure we've resolved this at least once before
<pochu> s/poinst/points/
<mdz> and then fallen out of the habit of posting the outcome of meetings, after several meetings without activity
<mjg59> Yes, I think so
<mdz> I'll do one for this meeting
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> I think we've reached broad agreement over meeting plans
<mdz> ok
<mdz> any other business?
<__keybuk> have we?
<__keybuk> I thought we still had four options and no clear decision
<__keybuk> 1) retain existing schedule
<__keybuk> 2) alter meeting schedule for daylight savings
<__keybuk> 3) 1 or 2, but reschedule or cancel meetings depending on agenda items
<__keybuk> 4) ad-hoc schedule meetings to discuss items as and when they are proposed
<mjg59> Ah, I thought we were leaning towards (4)
<mjg59> As long as we're good at posting outcomes, I think we'll retain enough visibility
<mdz> another option would be to come up with something which is useful for us to do together every week
<mdz> s/week/two weeks/
<Seveas> pochu, ?
<mjg59> Paintballing
<__keybuk> mjg59++
<pochu> Seveas: <       mdz> we need a secretary
<pochu> :)
<Seveas> heh
<pochu> You have experience, don't you? ;)
<Seveas> a bit
<mdz> mjg59: I was thinking something more like reviewing the work which was done on Ubuntu during the week
<mjg59> Ha
<mjg59> Yes, ok
<__keybuk> we kind of already do that every week anyway, no?
<mdz> we do, but individually
<mdz> we don't get together and talk about it
<mjg59> That arguably gives us an opportunity to ensure things are sane
<mdz> and that might be healthy to do
<__keybuk> that's an interesting point
<mdz> if our only official meeting activity is resolving disputes, we won't have much to say
<mjg59> I think I'd be happy with that
<mdz> the Ubuntu developer community being such a well-oiled machine
<__keybuk> we'd need some intelligent way to define "work done on Ubuntu during the week"
<mdz> and then the minutes from that meeting would be a good wrap-up for the community about what's happened
<mdz> sounds like something we should talk through by email, it was just a random idea
<mdz> can we settle on implementing 2) immediately and discussing other options via email?
<mjg59> Yes, ok
<mdz> done
<__keybuk> I can live with that :)
<mjg59> It'll do for now
<mjg59> Are we onto AOB?
<mdz> yes
<mjg59> We've received a request to take a look at Automatix - I think that's a reasonable request given the degree of interaction with the rest of the distribution
<mjg59> I've already taken a look over the code, so I'll write up a review document and sent it to the list?
<mdz> yes, it's due for another look
<mdz> mjg59: oh, fantastic
<mdz> I looked at the last version, but haven't looked at the new one
<mjg59> Ok. I'll do that, then we can discuss it at the next meeting?
<mdz> sure
<__keybuk> sure
<mjg59> It's probably worth noting it on the agenda, in case the developers want to provide any feedback
<mdz> ok
<mjg59> I've got nothing else - anyone else?
<mdz> I suggested via email that in fact we have the discussion in an open forem
<mdz> forum, even
<mdz> ok, sounds like we're done
<mdz> good night, all
<mjg59> Ok
<mjg59> Thanks!
* pochu wonders whether the technical-board list is open to the public.
<somerville32> I have a quick question.
<pochu> I can't find it on l.u.c
<mdz> pochu: it's not a list as such, ti's just a contact address for the technical board
<mdz> so that you can email us all at one address
<mjg59> pochu: It's deliberately not publically archived
<pochu> mdz: That explains it. Thanks :)
<mjg59> In order to allow confidental stuff to be brought up
<mjg59> If we have a public discussion, it'll be in a more obvious place :)
<pochu> Sure thing. But then you might want to change the address to @ubuntu.com instead of @lists.ubuntu.com? :)
<mjg59> Yea, that's an implementation detail
<pochu> Yeah, nothing important.
<mjg59> It's probably a reasonable idea, though
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-23
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 May 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council
<willvdl> Hola compadres!
<ogra-classmate> heya
<willvdl> pips1!
<pips1> hi
* juliux want also a classmate ;)
<LaserJock> hola
<juliux> hi all
<pips1> hey juliux
<willvdl> Let's kick it off. Nice and quick?
<pips1> who will drive this meeting?
<willvdl> T-T-T-TECH
* pips1 is pressed for time
<ogra-classmate> not much from my side, most work i did the last week was classmate related
<LaserJock> tech is hhhawt
<ogra-classmate> the basic squashfs image is done and runs nice
<willvdl> vagrantc, alright
<LaserJock> is that going to be made available somewhere at some point?
<pips1> ogra-classmate: how about the wireless interface on the classmate?
<ogra-classmate> it will still need some tweakage and i need to package the classmate-initramfs changes as well as classmate-artwork and -settings stuff
<ogra-classmate> we got a new driver today, i think BenC is on it
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, how do things look with their "custom" software for teacher student management?
<pips1> vagrantc: you here? or is that just your screen session? ;-)
<ogra-classmate> the squashfs setup i have currently leaves about 1gig freespace for the user data
<LaserJock> this is on a 2GB drive?
<ogra-classmate> and about 300 for additional software you can install
<ogra-classmate> yes, thats the 2gig fklashdrive
<vagrantc> pips1: oh, i'm here alright
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> hi vagrantc
* vagrantc waves
<ogra-classmate> the image runs at a reasonable speed and should be good for an initial edubuntu-classmate 1.0 version
<ogra-classmate> indeed all will be better if i can work from ground up on a classmate os (i.e. gutsy)
<LaserJock> so are you working on a seperate os?
<ogra-classmate> well, its based on edubuntu, but needs some tweaks for the classmate
<LaserJock> so a respun Edubuntu squashfs image?
<pips1> ogra-classmate: wow, is that commissioned work?!
<ogra-classmate> taking such tweaks and low memory usahge into account from trhe beginning of a release cycle will gain better results
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra-classmate> right, its a classmate-ified edubuntu live
<ogra-classmate> anyway, enough classmate for now
<willvdl> classmate-ified edubuntu live (TM)
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: I put in a request to Justin to get one as I'd like to also help with some of the images
<ogra-classmate> as you all can see i committing less time to ltsp
<ogra-classmate> that has a reason ....
<ogra-classmate> we will soon have a new employee taking care of most of the ltsp world ... i will still work on it but he will do the major stuff i guess :)
<ogra-classmate> so people, meet vagrantc (if you havent already)
<willvdl> when's it official?
<LaserJock> oh, wow
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: if paper was signed
* vagrantc is having trouble with paper
<willvdl> vagrantc, and dirty bathwater?
<ogra-classmate> but there is a mouth-agreement on both sides
<willvdl> sweet
* vagrantc is a little slow on the draw
<ogra-classmate> so meet vagrantc inofficially :P
* pips1 cheers for vagrantc
<willvdl> vagrantc, ++
<ogra-classmate> vagrantc, took over the awful work of merging the ltsp branches
<ogra-classmate> that deserves a huge applause
<LaserJock> welcome vagrantc
<vagrantc> thanks folks :)
<ogra-classmate> beyond that i wouldnt knoew any actual tech news ....
<ogra-classmate> hmm
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock started some bugsquashing and merges :)
<LaserJock> oh, the roadmap
<willvdl> yeah
<LaserJock> can you throw out the URL willvdl
<LaserJock> I don't have it one me
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<willvdl> central place for planning (current) tech, infrastructure, community, doc work
<LaserJock> so I just wanted a place were people and devs could see what's going on for the current release
<willvdl> will be "running" commentary, i.e. not tagged per release etc.
<willvdl> I'm going to work on it intensively after my conference
<ogra-classmate> note that the specs neeed to get approval first
<ogra-classmate> il need to got through them with RichEd during this week
<yuriy> should wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuKDE be added to the roadmap?
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, yeah, there's some other specs that I want to look at merging etc. as well
<yuriy> (hello)
<ogra-classmate> yuriy: as i understood riddel he wanted to make that metapackage
<ogra-classmate> in the kubuntu seeds
<willvdl> yuriy, I saw Riddell was active on it over past few days
<ogra-classmate> Riddell: around ?
<ogra-classmate> hmm, the spec doesnt define clearly where the work is done
<ogra-classmate> it only says an edubuntu-kde seed will be created
<yuriy> where meaning by whom?
<ogra-classmate> can we have a 'related projects' section ? and add it there for now
<ogra-classmate> yuriy: yep
<yuriy> ogra-classmate: afaiu it's in looking for volunteers status
<ogra-classmate> nobody in the edubuntu team has much clue about kde apps .... it would be favourable if Riddell could maintain the basic seed
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, sure. LP does track it but a mention on the wiki rpoadmap is good too
<yuriy> i wanted to work on the thin-client-manager, so i've been waiting for silentk to come on.  i guess i'll email him.
<nixternal> hello!
<ogra-classmate> i'm fine with having it in the edubuntu seed branch, but it should be maitained by some kde knowledgeable person
<nixternal> finally, a meeting I can attend
<nixternal> ogra-classmate: I have some experience with KDE apps...seeing as I use nothing but KDE
<LaserJock> yeah, nixternal would be good to get in on this
<ogra-classmate> i'm also fine with anyone suggested by Riddell, but i want it run through him so kubuntu keeps the control here
<LaserJock> yeah
<nixternal> I am helping Debian as well with KDE apps now as a part of the KDE-Extras team
<LaserJock> anyway
<ogra-classmate> right
<ogra-classmate> please add it under related projects
<LaserJock> we should put that spec in a "Related Projects" category and let Riddell, yuriy, nixternal take care of it ;-)
<ogra-classmate> so we have it on the radar
<ogra-classmate> right
<willvdl> shall we move to DOCS?
<ogra-classmate> so any tech related questions ?
<LaserJock> well, I made some progess with edubuntu-addon-enhancements
<willvdl> sorry LaserJock
<ogra-classmate> cool
<LaserJock> I'll have the spec done today
<ogra-classmate> wow, nice
<LaserJock> well, not the spec all the way implemented
<LaserJock> but drafted, ready for review/approval
<LaserJock> but I wanted to test stuff out first
<willvdl> cool
<ogra-classmate> good
<LaserJock> and I was able to make the sidebar do whatever I like
<LaserJock> in gnome-app-install
<ogra-classmate> cool
<LaserJock> so I can create a new menu just for the addon cd
<ogra-classmate> mvo writes good software ;)
* willvdl hopes to bend a minibar to his will
<LaserJock> and as long as we do the .desktops right it'll be easy
* mvo hugs ogra-classmate
<ogra-classmate> ?me hugs mvo
<ogra-classmate> heh
<LaserJock> the other part of the spec is just making meta-packages to pull in the young, primary, secondary apps/themes
<LaserJock> I have a variety of meta-packages I'd like to make for Main and Universe
<ogra-classmate> well, our artwork package supports preseeding for the theme selection
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, meaning it becomes easier for derivitives?
<ogra-classmate> (at least it did in dapper, i didnt test it since ... urgh)
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: meaning i have a variable i can set to default,young or plain
<willvdl> on install?
<ogra-classmate> which then makes the package use the rrespective default theme
<ogra-classmate> on install or through dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork
<willvdl> gotcha, thanks
<LaserJock> ideally I'd like to be able to pop in the addon cd
<ogra-classmate> i'm not sure something like preseeding is possible via .dewsktop files though
<LaserJock> and select Edubuntu Young in g-a-i
<willvdl> nice
<LaserJock> and it'd install the edubuntu-addon-young package
<LaserJock> and perhaps the postinst could set the theme to young
<ogra-classmate> but if it would, you would just have to install the package three times with three different preseed values and different icons for the .desktop
<LaserJock> is that plausible ogra-classmate ?
<ogra-classmate> indeed it is
<ogra-classmate> but note that you can only set the system default
<LaserJock> that's fine I think
<ogra-classmate> users that have change d the theme manually wont see the change
<LaserJock> I don't want to go mucking around with user's stuff
<ogra-classmate> yeah, its fine, i just wanted to point that fact out
<LaserJock> I just want to make it so that if you're setting up an Edubuntu machine from scratch it's easy to set the system default theme
<LaserJock> as you are getting the appropriate apps installed too
<willvdl> besides, kids don't grow _that_ quickly
<LaserJock> ok, I think I'm done there except for one question
<ogra-classmate> yep
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: well, not to fast for an ubuntu non-LTS lifecycle
<LaserJock> should/could we do a metapackage/task to install the set of apps that was on edgy/dapper?
<ogra-classmate> yes we should
<LaserJock> I've seen a number of people in #edubuntu go "Where's the apps that were on Edubunt in {Dapper,Edgy}?"
<willvdl> LaserJock, aren't they all in AddOn?
<LaserJock> yes, but you can't just install something that puts them back the way they were
<ogra-classmate> i want to talk with cjwatson about the livecd situation first and see if that will need any changes or new seeds first
<LaserJock> is a meta-package a bad idea here
<ogra-classmate> after that i'll be able to make a judgement about how we'll do it
<LaserJock> I'm quickly seeing where we could end up with a lot of metapackages :/
<willvdl> maybe with one meta-package to Rule Them All
<ogra-classmate> i dont think its a bad idea but we'll probably have to introduce one anyway
<LaserJock> I'll have to make a wiki page with a list of  metapackages I'd like to introduce
<willvdl> g-a-i -> Install Everything
<ogra-classmate> so i'd like to have the time to check the livecd thing first
<LaserJock> so we can debate them
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: ok, yeah, that makes sense
<willvdl> LaserJock, thinking we could even (in future) track meta-packages in the AppReviewEngine
<LaserJock> willvdl: of course ;-)
<willvdl> hmmm, might be difficult with dependencies that aren't traditional apps
<willvdl> shall we move one?
<LaserJock> yep
<willvdl> DOCS
<ogra-classmate> i'm fine
<willvdl> I've come across a fair amount of documentation lately
<willvdl> that I need to read still and sift through
<willvdl> been swamped with other pressing tasks though, however...
<willvdl> we decided in UDS to set up a wiki space for edubuntu doc collaborations again and I have some ideas
<willvdl> anyone got suggestions on how to tap valuable information that is getting answered on the ML?
<nixternal> willvdl: I use strigi and search for anything ending with \?
<nixternal> I typically scour the *-users lists and grab all of the questions, break them down in a file...and put the most common answers in there
<willvdl> into the help.u.c/userdocs?
<nixternal> well I have only been compiling them locally here
<willvdl> cool. was toying with the idea of an FAQ...but...
<nixternal> would be nice if we could setup some type of form for people to ask questions that would format the email automagically with QUESTION:
<nixternal> well, an FAQ is great to create in order to build your documentation or the content you plan on inserting into your documentation
<willvdl> well, often one has to delve into the situation to find the solution
<willvdl> nixternal, mind you, Launchpad has that...answers.lp.net?
<nixternal> willvdl: hopefully that will be taken care of with the topic based help
<nixternal> yes, answers as well
<nixternal> but I have found a majority of the questions on answers are either not doc worthy, or have been covered a hundred or so times elsewhere
<willvdl> well, TBH would kinda do it, but not at first.
<willvdl> or are actually bug fixes :)
<nixternal> lol, ya
<willvdl> well, what do you think of an FAQ style wiki space? that can be tapped for info
<nixternal> I have a year and a half worth of *-users..which is nice
<nixternal> I thought there was an FAQ somewhere already
<willvdl> on the www but not maintained. focus moved to Handbook
<nixternal> TBH would curb the FAQ feeling as well, as you can list on your main page (Yelp for Edubuntu) a rotating session of FAQs if needbe as well...rotating would take some hacking of course
<willvdl> I'm thinking of FAQ style on help.u.com/community just to capture info
<willvdl> TBH is always going to take some serious thought and planning
<nixternal> take it to the forums...I think moer people tap the forums for info than they do the wikis
<nixternal> also, a lot of our users don't edit the wiki, or don't know how to edit the wiki. or don't even have an LP account
<willvdl> hmmm, true but if it's in the wiki then it's easier to compile into TBH
<willvdl> is also easier for guys on the ML to point to answers
<nixternal> doesn't matter where it is really, as to put it into system docs, we would have to manually code the xml anyways...moin2docbook doesn't work...nothing wiki2docbook really works
<willvdl> yeah, still need to write up chats at UDS but we came to that conclusion
<pips1> I think drupal does docbook export, but I haven't tested it
<nixternal> it isn't pretty
<nixternal> truthfully, it is easier to take plain text and manually add the tags...plus everyone who uses DocBook/XML does so with various standards
<nixternal> the *2docbook typically use generic <book> and <chapter> tags, when we don't use that with topic based help
<willvdl> which is why we thought wiki and then a manual scrape of info into xml at set times
<LaserJock> the moint2docbook stuff I've done seemed to work ok
<nixternal> also, they seem to use <section> instead of <sec*> where * = 1-5
<LaserJock> I had to do some cleanup but it wasn't bad
<nixternal> which one did you use?
<willvdl> given that we don't have that much contrib compared to ubuntu
<LaserJock> nixternal: the one that comes with the newer versions of moin
<nixternal> plus we don't have moin2docbook, and the current wait to get anything implemented into our wiki is....well you would ahve a better chance of bill gates demolishing MS and becoming a FSF member
<LaserJock> bah, it's not *that* bad
<LaserJock> I just set up a local desktop moin
<LaserJock> grabed what was on wiki.u.c
<nixternal> LaserJock: I remember tryin to use for the TBH stuff...to the point the moinmoin people told me to take it elsewhere ;)
<LaserJock> and did an export
<nixternal> orly
<nixternal> I haven't messed with desktop moin in a while...I am guessng it is time...seeing as I have been working on a tomboy port to qt4
<LaserJock> anyway, that's probably beyond this meeting
<nixternal> well then..it may not be a bad idea
<willvdl> well, just watching the time.. we can keep this alive on ML but just wanted to point out that we are hoping to keep handbook in XML with wiki contribs (possibly in FAQ style) and want to generate user stories of typical edubuntu configurations
<nixternal> willvdl: we can fancy up someting I am sure
<nixternal> OK, I am ready to give my intro to become a member
* nixternal hides
<nixternal> ;)
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> anyway, I'll post some info somewhere. probably on new roadmap pages or docteam pages
<nixternal> OK willvdl, if you need any help let me know
<nixternal> in between losing hair trying to do dev stuff, I need to do some documentation..it is the only thing that keeps me sane
<willvdl> nixternal, we'll need some help with TBH. Not too sure how to write Edubuntu specific topics on top of ubuntu
<willvdl> line is not always that clear
<nixternal> ya, I am sure we can make LaserJock do it :)
<willvdl> awesome
* ogra-classmate wonders hairless == insane ?
<nixternal> yes
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, I thought hairy palms was insane
<ogra-classmate> heh
<nixternal> ahhahaa
<nixternal> hairy palms is far from insane..just another word for "busy"
<willvdl> Quick word on websites... newz2000 will be helping with the new drupal template (saw the mail from highvoltage)
<willvdl> pips1, any thoughts?
<pips1> oops, sorry, I was distracted
<nixternal> let him know if he needs drupal help to give me a call...although i think he already knows I am avail to help him
* pips1 reads up
<pips1> willvdl: I also saw highvoltage's email
<willvdl> yeah, they hope to have something up by next week
<pips1> seems like he's happy to do the theme tweaking for edubuntu.org...
<willvdl> which will be great!
<pips1> yep
<willvdl> Artwork folks! some nice banners for the website? MAybe revolving pics like one of the locos...
<willvdl> it's going ot be great
<pips1> now, about the community site: I need some meaty content from the summit!
<willvdl> nixternal, you did the chi.ubuntu loco page?
<nixternal> yes
<willvdl> nice example of maintaining consistency
<willvdl> inspired us to do same (and kubuntu I think)
<pips1> willvdl: what do you think: I would like to get the people who attended the education summit, to be our contributers to the beta site...
<pips1> david has already posted a second blog post, but we need more participants !
<nixternal> that theme was a bare to recreate though to mimic
<pips1> I'm also glad that the ICT school coordinator has joined...
<willvdl> pips1, I think we need to actually put some info up somewhere to tell people what it is...
<willvdl> pips1, maybe use some nice blogrolls from similar sites?
<pips1> willvdl: well, let's get some quality content on the site, and *then* announce the site somewhere
<willvdl> perhaps an aggregater would fill info in in no time
<pips1> willvdl: do you know if RichEd has received slides from the talks? that would be greast content to have...
<LaserJock> pips1: I think you just  need to advertise and clearly explain the purpose and what you want
<willvdl> would still be good to have a planning page so that people know what to contrib
<LaserJock> I have an account on there (I think) but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing with it
<pips1> LaserJock: i see
<pips1> ok, I'll do a "what to contribute" page
<willvdl> shweet
<willvdl> folks are a bit confused between the beta site and the www.e.org site
<pips1> since I'm travelling so much, I didn't even have time to upload my own images of the presentations, and I wanted to write some summaries of the presentations, about the spanish derivitives, about classmate, etc.
<willvdl> same here
<pips1> yeah
<willvdl> while we're on the subject: the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuApplicationReview spec is coming along
<willvdl> anyone got thoughts on "how" we shoud do it?
<willvdl> i.e. drupal module vs. mysql with python cgi
<LaserJock> well, now that ogra-classmate free ... ;-)
<LaserJock> *is free
<pips1> think about it this way: everything that would go onto 'ubuntu.com' should go on 'edubuntu.com', everything that is community-driven (i.e. discussions / q&a ) should go on the new beta site...
<willvdl> pips1, saw that mail from Jim Hutchinson...perhaps OSS lesson plans etc could go there?
<ogra-classmate> LaserJock: i am ?
<LaserJock> pips1: hmm, I'm a little unclear on that
<LaserJock> ogra-classmate: hehe
* ogra-classmate didnt know
<ogra-classmate> :)
<ogra-classmate> the spec looks really good to me
<willvdl> edubuntu.org stuff *is* our community
<pips1> so the beta site could be an easily accessible site for educators, integrating everything education-relevant that in the "normal" ubuntu universe is spread out over "planet.u.c", ubuntuforums, etc.
<LaserJock> pips1: it would seem to me that edubuntu.org would have everything that is edubuntu-specific and the beta site would be for stuff that's more education-specific
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, I got tied up in the details, ask LaserJock :) but I jsut need to plan a timed release scope
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: i think our server admins would be happier to only main tain one DB
<ogra-classmate> that would be postgresql
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, drupal uses mysql already
<ogra-classmate> oh,ok
<willvdl> or postgresql, don't care
<ogra-classmate> ignore me then :)
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, it is a very valid concern...
<pips1> LaserJock: yes, well spotted.
<willvdl> you're right that we need to choose a DB that can easily be moved if need be
<ogra-classmate> willvdl: only for the person writing the app :)
<pips1> Laserjock: but the idea is that the beta site will be a "brainstorming" pool for anything related to education, open source and open content... and anything that crops up that is highly relevant / specific to edubuntu, we (manually) copy over to edubuntu.org. Makes sense?
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, will chat quick afterwards about it if OK
<ogra-classmate> sure
<willvdl> pips1, as long as edubuntu and edubuntu education stuff is clearly in our space, we don't want to dilute our community
<pips1> LaserJock: think of it as edubuntu.org = consolidated information. beta = very dynamic information...?
<LaserJock> pips1: but what happens to dynamic information that is edubuntu-specific?
<LaserJock> is it expected to be on the beta site?
<pips1> well, yes, at least now, that we want to get the dynamic beta site going!
<LaserJock> so people will have to go to 2 different site to get info on Edubuntu?
<willvdl> like app selection? I know Richard wants it on the "beta" site and can see the logic, but I'm not sure if we can logically do it
<pips1> willvdl: noted
<willvdl> sorry, don't want to sound like a rant :) just think we should make the whole philosophy very clear somewhere
<LaserJock> edubuntu.org vs ubuntueducation.com doesn't really indicate that there is a difference in consolidation, only difference in topic
<pips1> LaserJock: well, yes, we will reference both sites from each other...
<LaserJock> hehe, good luck with that ;-)
<pips1> LaserJock: expand
<LaserJock> you're doing twice as much work
<LaserJock> it will soon become outdated
<LaserJock> unless you really keep track of it
<LaserJock> which we don't exactly have a great track-record of as a community (*buntu in general)
<pips1> LaserJock: well, I intend to focus on the community (site)... the "product" (site) needs some cleaning up (theme + content tagged for "dapper" and "latest"), but it won't be the focus of the activity...
<willvdl> oh, pips1: I'm going to www.elearning-africa.com next week and will be sure to collect as much info/links as possible
<LaserJock> pips1: but Edubuntu isn't just a product, you have to remember that
<pips1> LaserJock: noted
<pips1> keep reminding me though :-)
<LaserJock> of course ;-)
<pips1> so, to wrap things up for now.
<LaserJock> just let us know what the plans for the beta site are and what you want us to do with it
<pips1> highvoltage: will modify matt's theme for edubuntu.org
<willvdl> sweet
<pips1> I will blog about the education summit on the beta site
<pips1> plus add that podcast from the school visit...
<ogra-classmate> what about all the podcasts and the movies highvoltage made ?
<willvdl> pips1, let's consider something with blogrolls/aggregators... could work out well
<ogra-classmate> ah :)
<willvdl> ogra-classmate, we should post on ubuntu-videos
<pips1> sure, I'm up for aggregating blog
<ogra-classmate> ah, right
<willvdl> paul sladen is still editing the UDS vids
<ogra-classmate> damned and i missed my interview with him
<willvdl> we can do it online. we have the internet :)
<pips1> paul sladen is in austria and did a surprise visit in switzerland last monday :-)
<pips1> he crashed a my place before catching the first train from zurich yesterday morning.
<willvdl> Oh, and from a community/web/tech angle: I've got a cunning plan for Byte-Sized Tasks
<willvdl> pips1, he' s an interesting dude
<pips1> heh
<LaserJock> oh? do tell
<pips1> yep
<LaserJock> about bite-size
<LaserJock> I know about sladen ;-)
<ogra-classmate> heh
<willvdl> LaserJock, got some ideas on categorising them and a nested submission queue which *should* work on a wiki
<willvdl> maybe a byte-sized-task-engine for gutsy(+)
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> but I have no time next week, so I hope to have a cunning plan described by Friday
<pips1> willvdl: question: do you know if matt's drupal theme works for drupal 5.1? or is it a 4.7 theme?
<willvdl> I'm not sure. nixternal? ^^^
<willvdl> I think 4.7 but might not be a "train-smash" to port
<nixternal> 5.1
<willvdl> ah
<nixternal> i.e. => http://chi.ubuntu-us.org
<pips1> I don't mind that highvoltage is doing the theme modification - highvoltage is really good that that - but I would really like to scratch the drupal 4.7 install that is currently running edubuntu.org, and do a clean and proper re-install of drupal 5.1... there isn't much content to migrate, but we would benefit from a proper install...
<willvdl> somebody made a Matt Nuzum theme site with revolving pics... looked good
<willvdl> pips1 ++
<nixternal> I am working on a revolving pics header now
<willvdl> we need an overhaul
<ogra-classmate> nixternal: nice !
<nixternal> thanks
<LaserJock> drupal 5.1 is really nice
<willvdl> folks, there is a UDS spec out somewhere for this consistent theme idea...
<nixternal> definitely much cleaner code I will admit
<pips1> willvdl: yes, we really do. there is no https: set up, which is unsafe. also, I think the mail sending never worked, etc, etc.
<willvdl> bummed if I can find it
<nixternal> they can enable the mail sending on the server...I had to get it done on the chi.ubuntu one
<pips1> to cut it short: we need a fresh install, either matt doing it, or me doing it and documenting it cleanly for matt!
<willvdl> pips1, was thinking more in terms of info and links
<pips1> willvdl: well, we can clean up the content in the process, but the install is a bit botched if you ask me
<willvdl> is it possible to do in bzr? under the edubuntu-website team or some project? that way we can track using usability bugs like they do with ubuntu.com
<nixternal> yup..at least we do it with kubuntu-website
<LaserJock> how do you mean bzr?
<pips1> sure, that would be even better (but then I'd need to dive into using bzr, phew) ;-)
<nixternal> just store it though, make the edits there, and then upload as needed to the website server
<nixternal> or possibly setup a cron job on the webserver to pull from the bzr dir
<pips1> nixternal: noted
<willvdl> doesn't have to be bzr but at least hosted off a LP product with a team to catch bug assignments
<pips1> nixternal: are talking about the theme only?
<nixternal> pips1: you would have to..because sites/ wouldn't be good on bzr
<willvdl> pips1, whole site
<willvdl> oh
<willvdl> :)
<nixternal> yes, sites/* holds the usernames, passwords, and db names
<nixternal> db username and password that is
<willvdl> imagine the app-review-engine stored in postgresql... synced to bzr
<pips1> nixternal: we could do sites/ if we use a separate directory path for the content files...
<nixternal> although, you could still put the entire site up there, and only sync (using cron if possible) the themes or other subdirectories that you would change
<pips1> ^^ could do sites/ in bzr
<nixternal> true
<willvdl> and encrypted sensitive stuff?
<pips1> willvdl: huh?
<nixternal> sites/ is the only thing that contains sensative stuff
<willvdl> encrypt rather
<willvdl> just a thought
<LaserJock> ok, sounds like were' getting inot implementation details again
<pips1> yep
<LaserJock> are we done with the meeting stuff?
<willvdl> I'm done
<LaserJock> we almost made 2hrs
<willvdl> This has been a most fruitful meeting!
<LaserJock> for sure
<willvdl> minutes are done.
<pips1> they are?!
<willvdl> does anyone actually read them?
<LaserJock> let's continue drupal discussion in #edubuntu and/or edubuntu-devel
<LaserJock> sure
<willvdl> not posted yet
<willvdl> sweet
<LaserJock> overall I'd like to encourage everybody to use the edubuntu-devel mailing list
<LaserJock> it makes things easier to track
<LaserJock> more transparent
<LaserJock> and helps get people involved
<pips1> there *is* a edubuntu-devel?
<pips1> LaserJock: you are joking
<pips1> dudu
<pips1> dude
* LaserJock points to lists.ubuntu.com
<willvdl> dudu
<pips1> ah, you're talking about the mailing lists
* willvdl points to sarcasm in the dictionary
<pips1> I thought you're talking about irc
* willvdl stops pointing to sarcasm in the dictionary :)
<LaserJock> no, that's why I said "edubuntu-devel mailing list"
<LaserJock> ;-)
<willvdl> ok. reverting to #edu
<willvdl> ciao
<pips1> ciao
<ogra-classmate> ciao
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-24
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 May 20:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<spider48014> hi
<shawarma> @schedule copenhagen
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Copenhagen: 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 14:00: MOTU | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> @now amsterdadm
<Hobbsee> @now amsterdam
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: May 24 2007, 15:45:48 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 6 hours 14 minutes
<Lure> @schedule ljubljana
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 24 May 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 14:00: MOTU | 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 24 May 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 08:00: MOTU | 27 May 10:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 11:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 17:00: Community Council | 30 May 08:00: Edubuntu
<bryce> @schedule los angeles
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Los_Angeles: 24 May 13:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 05:00: MOTU | 27 May 07:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 08:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 14:00: Community Council | 30 May 05:00: Edubuntu
<Hobbsee> @now amsterdam
<ubotu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: May 24 2007, 18:58:35 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 3 hours 1 minute
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<pitti> hi
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 24 May 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 07:00: MOTU | 27 May 09:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 10:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 16:00: Community Council | 30 May 07:00: Edubuntu
<tkamppeter> @schedule coimbra
<tkamppeter> @schedule lisboa
<tkamppeter> @schedule lisbon
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Lisbon: 24 May 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 May 13:00: MOTU | 27 May 15:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 22:00: Community Council | 30 May 13:00: Edubuntu
<tkamppeter> hi pitti
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
* Mithrandir pongs preemptively at Keybuk 
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: take a shower ;)
<ogra-classmate> haha, contentless pongs
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: I'm so smelly you can feel it all the way to birmingham? :-O
<Keybuk> either that, or the dog's been eating the garbage again
<Mithrandir> I blame your dog.
<Mithrandir> or your dogs, even.
<Keybuk> Oscar (the puppy) has taken to digging up the garden
<Mithrandir> sounds fun.
<Keybuk> I think he's copying David who has also taken to digging up the garden
<ogra-classmate> lol
<ogra-classmate> you should train him in mowing :)
<Keybuk> we need a lawn first
<mdz> good evening
<ogra-classmate> ah, want some ? i'd love to get rid of one or the other hundret squaremeters
<Keybuk> mdz: it is; don't you just wish there was Wi-Fi in hyde park?
* ogra-classmate had mowing day and would give away all of it on such days
<Mithrandir> Keybuk: you don't have flatrate GPRS in the UK?
<adilson> Keybuk: If you want some tips on dog traning, ping me another time. I'm a certified dog handler and trainer and will be happy to help :)
<mdz> Keybuk: I wish I were somewhere other than the office, surely
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: actually, I do have flat rate GPRS and 3G
<Keybuk> I just don't have an operating system I've managed to persuade to work with my phone
* Keybuk thought he saw a spec about that once <g>
<adilson> mdz: good evening.
<Mithrandir> yeah, I unassigned myself after it became clear I wouldn't get around to working with it
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: the trouble is, every time I fiddle, I'm on a train or something
<Keybuk> so don't have access to the interwobble to find out things like the mysterious "Dial String" I need
<Mithrandir> you could spend ten minutes before going on said train.
<kylem> or text someone from the train to google fo ryou.
* mvo waves
<Riddell> evening
<earobinson> afternoon for me!
<adilson> Riddell: Hi
<Keybuk> Mithrandir: I never remember
* asac waves
* doko joins
<mdz> cjwatson: ping?
* heno waves
<kwwii> howdy
<Riddell> adilson: you're out of agenda, new startes after apologies :)
<cjwatson> pong
<adilson> Riddell: Sorry :)
<bryce> heya
* keescook lurks
* bdmurray waves
* pitti hugs the crowd
* BenC is here
* dholbach hugs back
<BenC> and I believe pkl, rtg and kyle are accounted for
<cjwatson> doko said he might be five minutes late
<mdz> doko is here
<tkamppeter> hi
<pkl_> BenC: ye :)
<mdz> seb128: here?
<seb128> mdz: yes
<cjwatson> I tend to assume people who just joined are here
<mdz> seb was more than a screenful back :-)
<cjwatson> ok, all accounted for
<mdz> ok, good evening to all
<cjwatson> doko: oh yes, sorry, didn't see that
<seb128> evening
<mdz> on a warm evening in London
<asac> :)
<doko> too hot here in Berlin
<mdz> (/me pings mathiaz out of band)
<ogra-classmate> warm evening in kassel as well
<adilson> too cold in Brazil :(
<mdz> first, a special welcome to adilson
<tkamppeter> Rainy in Portugal
<mdz> who has joined the Canonical team to work on Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded
<Mithrandir> \o/
<adilson> Thank you!
<heno> Oslo is just perfect these days :)
<asac> hi adilson
<Mithrandir> he's already been a great help.
* ogra-classmate hugs adilson
<mvo> welcome adilson
* adilson waves all
<Mithrandir> heno: slightly rainy today, though
<bryce> heya adilson :-)
<keescook> welcome adilson
<mdz> from wintry Brazil
<mdz> in just a few moments, we will be joined by another newcomer
<Riddell> hi mathiaz
<mdz> welcome to mathiaz
* pitti cheers to mathiaz 
<mathiaz> hi all
<mdz> who joins us from summery Montreal
* keescook hugs mathiaz
<dholbach> welcome mathiaz
<Mithrandir> mathiaz: welcome to the madness! :-)
<asac> mathiaz: welcome
<adilson> Hi Mathiaz!
<bryce> welcome mathiaz!
<BenC> Hello Mathiaz
* mvo hugs mathiaz
<mdz> blazing a trail on Ubuntu Server
* ogra-classmate hugs mathiaz
<mdz> do I read correctly that we have no agenda items proposed for this week?
* pitti actually had one
<pitti>  * Find interested reviewer for bzr-best-practices
<bdmurray> I have a last minute one
<pitti> and I have another one if I may
<seb128> pitti: that's not really a meeting agenda ;)
<ogra-classmate> we could discuss the best cooling mechanism at work :)
<cjwatson> neither Keybuk nor I could see any, but we may have missed some
<cjwatson> feel free to add them
<seb128> pitti: I think the mail on the list acted as a call for review ;)
<pitti> seb128: WFM
<mdz> indeed
<bdmurray>  * Bug Day Tasks
<mdz> it would be best reviewed by people working on packaging using bzr every day
<Mithrandir> ogra-classmate: ice cream, of course.
<pitti>  * -security kernel handling
<mdz> bdmurray: please go ahead
<pitti> keescook: ^ will you stay for this?
<dholbach>  * find people who are willing to do ubuntu-dev mentoring :-)
<tkamppeter> Any volunteer for writing a new GUI for printerdrake for Gutsy? GNOME and Usability experts?
<keescook> pitti: yup
<ogra-classmate> Mithrandir: cold water buckets to put your feet in ;)
<tkamppeter> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake
<ogra-classmate> dholbach: count me in for edubuntu people on that
<ogra-classmate> dholbach: any team i need to join ?
<mdz> bdmurray: bug day tasks?
<bdmurray> mdz: right per some discussion at UDS I wanted to setup a list of a quantity of bugs to address
<cjwatson> I could be one reviewer on bzr-best-practices, since I meet that criterion (well, maybe not *every* day)
<cjwatson> but I shouldn't be the only one
<bdmurray> I've started a draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20070530 and just wanted review / comments
<mdz> bdmurray: sounds like a fine idea
<dholbach> ogra-classmate: no, you just need to tell me how many people you could take care of and I'd send them to you (highvoltage and I are the 'reception')
<pitti> right, the more opinions, the better
<bdmurray> I also wanted to a section of bite-size tagged bugs and perhaps duplicates dholbach's bughelper cron job finds
* seb128 doesn't maintain packages to bzr, apt-get source is faster ;)
<mdz> bdmurray: that seems like a good list.  should keep folks busy for a little whlie
<dholbach> bdmurray: looks like a good idea - I'm sure we can add bugs to the list if people finish them too soon :-)
<mvo> pitti: I will be happy to review it too
<bdmurray> mdz: I was planning on adding more than that quantity perhaps 100
<pitti> bdmurray: I like the idea of a bite-sized portion of bugs which need more attention; staring at ubugto is just a swamp
<mdz> seb128: maybe on the first fetch, not for updates :-)
<seb128> could we list some distro team members being "on duty" for bug days?
<mdz> seb128: perhaps a rotation
<cjwatson> that sounds like a good idea; it's always easier to remember when it's your explicit responsibility
<seb128> obviously waiting on volontars doesn't work
<seb128> mdz: well, I mean changing the people "on duty" every week
<mdz> bdmurray: about how many people do you think you need per bug day?
<pitti> bdmurray: sounds like it should be combined with the 'mentoring' flag?
<seb128> otherwise nobody join (or only a few number of people and always the same ones)
<bdmurray> I thought one idea we had was to have the next one in ubuntu-devel to get more developers involved
<bdmurray> mdz: not sure maybe 6?
<mdz> bdmurray: yes, I think that should be done regardless
<seb128> 6 is a bit much
<mdz> bdmurray: hmm, I don't think we can devote that much of the team each time
<asac> 6 on duty ... what does "on duty" imply?
<seb128> I think 3 people is enough
<keescook> "6" is total people involved in a hug day or "on duty"?
<mdz> asac: focused on bug squashing for that day
<bdmurray> I'll defer to seb128 then
<adilson> "hug day" :)
<cjwatson> asac: what mdz said, plus expected to be paying attention to the channel and helping people out there
<seb128> asac: hanging around, having some activity on the chan, replying to people who have questions
<pitti> if it means talking to people and looking at bugs fulltime without doing other things, then 6 is indeed quite a dent in productivity
<cjwatson> preferably actively talking about what they're doing
<seb128> creating a feeling that things are happening
<mdz> we could do 3 in a rotation such that everyone gets to participate once every 5 or so bug days
<pitti> that sounds good
<seb128> well, I think people don't need to spend the day on that
<seb128> it's taking like 2-3 hours, showing activity on the chan and reading what's happening
<dholbach> everybody in here does 2-3 hours of bug triage a day anyway, right? ;-)
<pitti> I often hung out in the channel and occasionally looked at new incoming bugs, but otherwise chatter has been relatively quiet in that channel, so I'm not sure what else to do
<seb128> dholbach: I wish
<seb128> dholbach: 2-3 hours is a lazy day :p
<mdz> it would be interesting if ubugtu would show when someone in the channel touches a bug
<ogra-classmate> that would get noisy very fast
<seb128> that would create too much flood imho
<Seveas> mdz, you want frid eggs with that spam?
<seb128> I closed like 200 Needs Info today for example
<Seveas> :)
<bdmurray> mdz: I find ubugtu noisy enough as it is, I just had apport announcements turned off with Seveas's help
<mdz> I wasn't actually thinking about all bugs
<seb128> I don't think people on the chan would have made any use of the flood
<mdz> but one sees new bugs announced in the channel
<pitti> bdmurray: that might require some tweaking with the recent 'title prefix' -> 'tag' change, btw
<mdz> but doesn't see who is working on them
<Seveas> pitti, can we talk about that after the meeting?
<bdmurray> My hope with the wiki is people would put their name by bugs they triaged and try to "do more" and have their name show up a lot
<seb128> mdz: how do we know who is working on them?
<mdz> maybe the "current screenful" of bugs
<seb128> we usually do
* seb128 looks at bug #nnn
<pitti> Seveas: yes, let's, in #u-devel
<mdz> seb128: I see
<mdz> seb128: perhaps not everyone is so diligent :-)
<dholbach> something like http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/diaries would be nice (not that much text at once, but explaining what you do with a bug)
<heno> dholbach: add a bugbot flag to buglog, to make it send specific bugs to the bot
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Diaries I mean
<mdz> bdmurray: how often do you run a bug day?
<dholbach> heno: once we have buglog up and running that might be a good idea
<heno> so when you've just worked on a nice example you can post it
<seb128> mdz: that's why I want people "on duty" :p
<seb128> like 2-3 people who make efforts to be active on the chan
<dholbach> the last one was two weeks before feisty release, or something?
<mdz> we should do them on a set schedule, and set up a rotation
<bdmurray> mdz: we haven't had one in a while as I've been trying to revamp the idea.  I think once every 2 weeks would be a good start
<mdz> ok
<mdz> who would be "on duty" for a bug day once every two months?
<keescook> I'm game
* dholbach would
<asac> me obviously
<cjwatson> I could manage that
<mdz> I would as well
<heno> me
<pitti> I thought the entire team?
* pitti for sure, too
<ogra-classmate> me for edubuntu
* mvo too
<seb128> o/
<Riddell> rather who has an excuse not to be :)
* adilson if I can be of any help...
<bryce> me too, particularly for all the X-related bugs I see there
<mathiaz> too
<mdz> Riddell: we're increasingly specialized around here, you know ;-)
<heno> how should we time vthese relative to alpha releases, etc?
<mdz> bdmurray: ok, you've got 3 people for each of them now
<heno> we'll likely have resaonable community testing of ISOs around those
<adilson> Riddell: hmmm... my dog ate my pc? :)
<mdz> heno: would be good to have a bug day to receive the test results from a milestone
<mdz> s/a milestone/each milestone/
<Mithrandir> mdz: can we (as in mobile) wait until we have any users? :-P
<heno> agreed
<mdz> Mithrandir: a bug day sounds like a good way to stay in touch with the rest of the world
<mdz> and take a break from the everyday
<cjwatson> and it's also good to have a bug day a little before a milestone to hoover up really bad stuff
<cjwatson> hi Evan
<Mithrandir> mdz: indeed.  I wasn't really serious; a day every second month is something we can spare, for sure.
<evand> hello
<adilson> mdz: and God know we need after tackling Hildon over and over ;)
<ogra-classmate> polease early enough so we dont have to do too many rebiulds
<mdz> bdmurray: would you work out a schedule for bug days which includes the duty rotation, and coincides nicely with milestones?
<ogra-classmate> *please
<cjwatson> ogra-classmate: well, it depends how bad the bugs are :-)
<ogra-classmate> indeede
<ogra-classmate> but we have a major raise in bugs spam anyway shortly before milestones
<bdmurray> mdz: okay. do we have a day of week preference?  I think Tu, Wed or Th is good
<mdz> bdmurray: whatever works best for everyone
<mdz> we could try it on different days and see what works best with respect to a milestone
<cjwatson> Thu coincides with release days
<cjwatson> (typically)
<dholbach> Wednesday? (there are a couple of meetings on thursdays and tuesdays)
<bdmurray> and this so Wed?
<seb128> I think wednesday
<Mithrandir> I think Tuesday would be better, since stuff will often be frozen on Wednesdays
<dholbach> that doesn't stop us doing bug triage :)
<pitti> we don't have meetings all day long on Tuesday either
<seb128> Mithrandir: that's not really an "upload fixes" day
<mdz> dholbach: or fixing bugs either
<dholbach> right
<mdz> let's try Wednesday and see how it goes
<mdz> bug day, hug day, hump day
<dholbach> YOOOHOOOO :-)
* dholbach hugs mdz
* seb128 hugs mdz
<mdz> let's discuss bdmurray's schedule on list
<mdz> pitti: kernel security updates?
<BenC> that might scare off the more innocent crowd
<pitti> so, I noticed that our recent *-security kernel uploads were quite a bit more than -security
<mdz> BenC: you just made elmo laugh
<pitti> would it be feasible to have those go through regular -proposed, or is that too much work?
<mdz> oh, he's not here. must have been something else
<cjwatson> a passing squirrel
<pitti> bumping the ABI every time is painful enough with the current -security workflow
<cjwatson> (I'd laugh if I saw a squirrel 27 floors up)
<mdz> pitti: they should, though they need to be merged into -security eventually
<keescook> and just the fear of seeing a regression.  without -proposed, doing the upload is rather binary
<pitti> right, there's so much new stuff going into these kernels; I don't really see why we are so strict on SRUs fixing gnome games and so lax on kernels which affect everyone
<mdz> pitti: who is 'we'?
<mdz> pitti: aren't you and keescook responsible for reviewing security updates?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: the building's been buzzed by Apache Gunship helicopters a few times
<pitti> well, we define what should go in in the kernel tracker svn, but usually when they get uploaded there's more stuff into them
<keescook> the list of changes in the feisty update was giant.  62 changes, 5 were for security.  :P
<pitti> so far I regarded that as 'common practice' to avoid even more branches, but it got a little much recently
<pitti> keescook: erk
<mdz> the two of you need to take responsibility for that
<mdz> you're responsible for everything which goes out as a security update
<mdz> if it's not OK with you, you need to say no
<keescook> BenC: thoughts?
<pitti> right; so far it has been a bit like 'get the surprise when you read the .changes file that got uploaded'
<mdz> and work with the kernel team so that you have agreement on what is going in *before* it gets uploaded
<pitti> yep, that would be prefered
<rtg_> pitti, keescook: Of those 62 changes, were there any that were not bug fixes?
<pitti> ok, we'll do that discussion on the ML, I think
<pitti> rtg_: that's not the point
<BenC> all the stuff in feisty update was either sitting there before we even released, or was super well tested prior to upload
<pkl_> keescook: there were 4 more which were not CVEs, but were security fixes from Linux 2.6.20 stable.
<keescook> rtg_: I'm sure they were all bug fixes, but bugs should be SRU'd.
<mdz> BenC: the fact that it was in the tree before we released doesn't make it exempt
<BenC> problem is SRU is really a PITA for kernel
<pitti> rtg_: also, we should not try and fix every bug in stables
<pitti> BenC: right, and it should be a PITA, really
<mdz> I recognize that it might be inconvenient to back things out, but I can't stress it enough
<BenC> no, I mean it's almost impossible to follow for kernels :)
<mdz> being rigorous about security updates is a matter of trust
<pitti> BenC: how so?
<Mithrandir> SRUs should be painful enough that we don't do them nilly-willy, but easy enough that we actually fix real bugs.
<Mithrandir> which is a hard balance to strike.
<BenC> The ABI, revisioning, git tree handling, lrm/linux-meta matching, making sure one is newer than the other, etc..
<pitti> BenC: that really sounds like the problem is that too much stuff happens on the stable branches then
<BenC> we really can't supply a decent -updates kernel
<cjwatson> rtg_: (since you don't have the background here, the reason we're so strict is that we have had serious negative backlash in the past from updates that we thought were safe but in practice broke a lot of people's systems; that's why we have a strict policy on updates now)
<pitti> BenC: oh, I'm fine with -proposed -> merge to -security for a small number of high-impact patches; -updates is not really required IMHO
<BenC> pitti: even one small change requires all this, if it has an ABI bump, or if -security has an ABI bump, and -proposed needs to match -security
<mdz> our policy for stable is only to fix high-impact bugs (including security issues)
<mdz> full stop
<pitti> BenC: so can't we just amalgate several of them and only release them once every two months or so?
<tkamppeter> I suggest an SRU for Ghostscript, the new merged Ghostscript (http://www.cups.org/espgs/articles.php?L463) fixes tons of bugs, especially the KDE killers bug 103595 and bug 105752,
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103595 in gs-esp "[GPL GS WORKS]  MASTER [apport]  gs-esp crashed with SIGSEGV in pdf_find_same_resource()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103595
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105752 in gs-esp "[GPL GS WORKS]  MASTER [apport]  gs-esp crashed with SIGSEGV in gx_image_end()" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105752
<mdz> tkamppeter: please read what I just said
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, I'm afraid that's way off the scale
<cjwatson> tkamppeter: there is no possibility of just dropping the new merged ghostscript into stable
<mdz> BenC: we already have an agreement that -proposed doesn't need to match
<cjwatson> stable updates need to be carefully targeted such that it's possible to review the patch that fixes just the bugs in question
<mdz> BenC: there's a special exception for the kernel in the SRU process for it, which you proposed
<pitti> also, -proposed is *much* less painful than -security in terms of uploading and publishing
<BenC> mdz: No, I realize that, it's the matching between there...we miss a lot of testing because -proposed has to have a different ABI from what's in stable
<BenC> and attempting to match ABI and have versions be sane, creates overhead
<pitti> BenC: but then the solution should not be to not test at all IMHO
<BenC> pitti: we do test
<BenC> we test out of -proposed
<BenC> with bug submitters, OEMs, distro-team, etc...
<BenC> those things did not get uploaded without me knowing they were tested...
<pitti> right, I didn't say they were
<BenC> they probably got better testing because we didn't do the -proposed upload
<pitti> but ATM it's not really transparent what goes in and what not
<BenC> but you said "not test at all" :)
<pitti> BenC: right, in -proposed I mean
<mdz> BenC: what is your personal criteria for what should go into stable?
<mdz> it sounds like we have a disconnection here
<mdz> the general policy is well documented
<pitti> BenC: I was saying that avoiding a -proposed upload because it's too painful is the wrong way to approach the problem IMHO
<mdz> I'd like to see the same for what you think should apply to the kernel
<mdz> and then we can discuss it
<BenC> for the first feisty upload, it had to fix important hw support (like tifm and sparc64), had to fix some OEM issues, and had to be tested by bug submitters and regressions tested
<cjwatson> I don't think all the stuff that was in the tree from pre-release satisfied those criteria
<BenC> but definitely, I'd love to make this more transparent, so maybe a discussion later would be good
<pitti> BenC: right, let's continue on the ML maybe?
<BenC> sure thing
<mdz> BenC: please take a little time and write it down in detail, so that we have a basis for a discussion
<pitti> me will start a thread
<BenC> will do
<pitti> BenC: thank you
<BenC> PPA would resolve a lot of this :)
<mdz> dholbach: ubuntu-dev mentoring?
<dholbach> we have a new mentoring process for people who want to become ubuntu-dev - we want to get them far enough to know the processes and the tools, so they find their way around easily
<dholbach> for that we changed the process to have 'reception' which takes on mentoring requests and assigns mentors to contributors
<dholbach> it'd be nice to have some more people who are willing to help out
<dholbach> and pass easy tasks to people and review what they do
<cjwatson> BenC: PPA's up on dogfood, so if you would like to start trying it, talk to Celso
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring for more information
<BenC> cjwatson: ok, thanks
<mdz> what dholbach means to say is this
<mdz> if you have more work than you can do, you can hand off some small tasks to prospective MOTUs
<pitti> mdz: as always, the marketing expert :)
<mdz> in exchange for answering their questions as they help you with your work
<mdz> they learn, your todo list shrinks
<mdz> everybody wins
<dholbach> thanks mdz :-)
<mdz> now let's see some hands!
<ogra-classmate> yay, lets train delegation!
* pitti suggests adding a canned search for mentoring bugs to that page
* BenC holds his up, and the rest of the kernel-team's hands
<asac> i am doing this already ... so why not :)
<dholbach> drop me a mail and tell me how many contributors you think you could deal with and I'll add you to the list
<pitti> I flagged some of my bugs as mentoring, I think that's a convenient and dynamic way of indicating where new devs can start
<mdz> heno: are you already an official mentor?
<adilson> Well, there's a lot of people interested on helping over the embedded stuff but I think I'm too green yet to really mentor anyone.
<BenC> dholbach: how many are most people mentoring at a time?
<dholbach> most do 2
<mdz> bryce: surely you have some extra bugs you could pass on to a prospective developer :-)
<bryce> definitely
<heno> mdz: not for MOTU ...
<bryce> however I'm not a MOTU so not sure if I fit in this scheme
<dholbach> I do 5 and it works ok - bear in mind that there are people who don't know how to use dpkg-buildpackage or how to use debdiff too, we have a lot of very keen people
<mdz> bryce: you're not *yet*
<keescook> bryce: you'll be there.  :)
<ogra-classmate> adilson: dont underestimate the learning effect you have by helping others
<ogra-classmate> ;)
<heno> but I've offered mentoring on various specs
<keescook> I'm happy to do this too, I already mentor folks for security updates
<Mithrandir> adilson: if you take up somebody, I'm happy to be "second line of support" if they come up with questions you can't answer.
<bryce> in any case, I'd be happy to work with anyone interested in fixing X bugs :-)
<dholbach> the mentoring feature in LP is nice, but I feel that people work better if you give them a task that you know is easy :)
<mdz> adilson: as ogra points out, you learn quickly by teaching :-)
<adilson> Mithrandir: Well, in that case, what the hell, full steam ahead. COunt me on :)
<pitti> dholbach: if you see someone interested in Utopia stuff, point her/him to me
<pitti> dholbach: (you do that anyway, of course, but just to reiterate :) )
<mdz> ok, we're running short on time
<mdz> is there any other business for the meeting?
<dholbach> pitti: ok
<pitti> what's the current plan for spec approval?
<pitti> they'll just happen in the next one or two weeks or so?
<mdz> pitti: the plan is that specs will be approved :-)
<cjwatson> it's due by next Thursday, IIRC
<mdz> if you're wondering about a particular approver, ask them
<ogra-classmate> pitti: end of the moth for community driven specs iirc
<Keybuk> pitti: if you haven't had comments from me so far, that's a good sign ;)
<mdz> the deadline is 31 May
<pitti> cjwatson: that sounds like a concrete plan, thanks
<pitti> Keybuk: *phew* :)
<mdz> which is next Thursday
<tkamppeter> See you all on the LinuxTag in Berlin.
<cjwatson> merge status
<adilson> tkamppeter: I wish :)
<pitti> we're doing quite well this time, don't we? almost down to 100 or so
* ogra-classmate is a bit behind due to classmate stuff ... but will take up on monday again
<cjwatson> 86 outstanding merges is pretty good at this point, but we need to keep pushing on through
<cjwatson> if you have a lot, hand them off rather than sitting on them
<tkamppeter> I will come to the Ubuntu boothe several times on the first two days.
<mdz> 86
<Keybuk> pitti: this was deliberate <g>
<kwwii> ogra-classmate: let me know if there are any graphic related items you need
<mdz> Mithrandir: you should find a home for your merges, given mobile
<tkamppeter> On the other two days I will work towards the grand unified printing dialog with 5 Usability experts, hope the dialog will make it into Gutsy+1 ...
<ogra-classmate> kwwii: for now i'm fine scaling the feisty artwork to the correct sizes... we'll need to talk about a possible gutsy image later
<kwwii> ogra-classmate: cool
<Mithrandir> mdz: yup, or just do them, there aren't that many of them.
<heno> cjwatson: all my specs are up for review now. who should I poke about that, the approver or find a separate reviewer?
<ogra-classmate> kwwii: actually i'm done with the feity stuff apart from usplash
<tkamppeter> Everyone who likes to work with GUI and Printing is invited to join the OpenPrinting Usability/GUI Meeting on Friday and Saturday June 1 and 2 on LinuxTag in Berlin.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'll see if I can give them away to somebody.
<pitti> Mithrandir: oh, just four for you; but tell me if you need help, they don't look too scary
<mdz> ok, sounds like we're done for tonight
<kwwii> tkamppeter: just make sure that Ellen helps :-)
<cjwatson> heno: just the approver, I think
<mdz> we had deliverables from bdmurray and BenC
<tkamppeter> kwwii, Ellen is still working at OpenUsability, but not any more on the printing GUI.
<heno> cjwatson: ok so in most cases that's you ;)
<mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone
<mdz> and good night
<pitti> thanks, guys
<cjwatson> heno: yeah, I have a big list
<asac> thanks everybody ... cu
<adilson> Thanks for the warm welcome and good night!
<seb128> 'night
<bdmurray> Thanks
<kwwii> tkamppeter: yeah, I just figured she'd be in berlin as she lives there :-)
<mathiaz> thanks - 'night
<BenC> good night everyone
<kwwii> and with that, I wish you all a good night
<tkamppeter> The five experts are Jan Muehlig, Peter Sikking, Josef Spillner, Andrea alessandrini, and Celeste Lyn Paul.
<bryce> cya all!
<dholbach> (and please mail me about the mentoring thing)
<heno> cjwatson: I can imagine
<ogra-classmate> thanks
<asac> dholbach: sure
<tkamppeter> kwwii, but if you want to join, feel free to participate.
* dholbach hugs asac
<mvo> good night
<pkl_> bye
<kwwii> tkamppeter: unfortunately I won't be attending after all
<keescook> cya
<tkamppeter> See you next week live at the LinuxTag in Berlin.
* kwwii will still be in bamberg
* ogra-classmate has to be there for the ubuntu grill
<dholbach> ogra-classmate: ROCK ON
<tkamppeter> unfortunately, I cannot join the Ubuntu session, as it is in parallel with the Printing GUI Meeting ...
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-25
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 May 12:00 UTC: MOTU | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<ranf> @now
<Hobbsee> ranf: 30 mins
<ranf> Hobbsee, k thanks
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: MOTU | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<dholbach> siretart: do you know if sistpoty is going to turn up for the meeting?
<dholbach> the first agenda item is his, but I reckon it's of an old agenda - I remember we discussed this at least twice before
* dholbach removes it
<ajmitch> charter?
<dholbach> yes
<siretart> dholbach: I haven't seen him today, but I know he's starting his new job next week (I think on monday)
<dholbach> alright
* StevenK waits for the join flood.
<dholbach> StevenK: we're 100 in the channel already :)
* ajmitch looks longingly at his bed
<StevenK> ajmitch: Surely we're more interesting?
* StevenK waits for "Hardly."
* persia suspects ajmitch has a very interesting bed at this time of day
* ScottK is here.
<ajmitch> StevenK: "no, not in the slightest"
<dholbach> ok, let's get started
<dholbach> agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> ScottK wanted us to agree on a policy for something like clamav backports
<ScottK> dholbach: Want me to start the discussion then?
<dholbach> yes
<ScottK> The current problem is that the clamav 0.90 versions cannot be directly backported because they break stuff that depends on them
<ScottK> but the current packages have outstanding security issues that no one has stepped up to fix.
<dholbach> how does stuff break?
<minghua> anything we can take from volatile.debian.org?
<ScottK> Going from 0.8x to 0.9x some of the interfaces changed
<dholbach> or how would a fix look like?
<dholbach> right, so it's some kind of library transition?
<ScottK> Yes
<ScottK> Additionally, the lib went from libclamav1 to libclamav2
<Hobbsee> dholbach: means that klamav doesnt start / crashes / etc, and other related programs, which are binary incompatible with 0.8 & 0.9
<StevenK> I'm also guessing that ClamAV break ABI compatibility without bumping their SOVER?
<minghua> I think I remember, volatile.debian.org updated clamav as well as all packages that depend on it
<dholbach> the problem with backports is that we can't upload directly to it and stuff is synced (if I understand it correctly)
<ScottK> The problem is that there are a LOT of redepends.
<ScottK> redepends/rdepends
<StevenK> minghua: Yes, but volatile is completly seperate. I can't see feisty-volatile getting created just for ClamvAV and friends.
<ScottK> And so ugrading all the stuff that might break is, I think, a non-starter
<Fujitsu> I think we are able to modify stuff now, dholbach.
<StevenK> Although, PPA might be a way around this.
<Hobbsee> (18)
<Fujitsu> Or we were meant to be able to soon.
<dholbach> 13 source packages if I counted correctly
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sounds about right, i was counting binaries
<dholbach> I think it might make sense to look into how much effort fixes are
<StevenK> I think we're going to have to deal with the rdepends anyway. They will break/need dealing with no matter what path we take.
<dholbach> I can't imagine that all library calls have been changed completely
<ScottK> In thinking about this, I thought about something like separate repo for clamav and it's redepends, but that just seemed to hard
<siretart> dholbach: we DO can upload directly to -backports
<dholbach> siretart: ok, good to know
<ScottK> The latest proposal I made on what to do is here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-May/001649.html
<siretart> dholbach: the upload will be pocketed, and pitti asked to be notified about that case
<siretart> or better the archive-admins in general
<dholbach> siretart: I asked because I wasn't sure if it makes sense to backport complete new upstream versions (which might need other stuff)
<ScottK> dholbach: No one has stepped up to maintain the current versions and so I think it's a choice between the new upstream versions and nothing.
<dholbach> ScottK: what would be built against clamav-alt?
<Hobbsee> i really dont think we can give users a credible experience of clamav, with the old, buggy version
<StevenK> I agree.
<Hobbsee> particularly as servers probably use virus scanners and such, like clamav and friends
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I think we all agreed that it's a problem we need to deal with. :-)
<siretart> what about having the clamav backport in a PPA until we consider them 'mature', and then sync them to -backports?
<StevenK> And users might well get confused if say, klamav doesn't get fixed to use clamav-alt ...
<Hobbsee> if anything, these are the sorts of packages we need to update for LTS, and be exempt from the "no updates" rule
<dholbach> Would somebody volunteer to check how much changed in the library interfaces?
<ScottK> I think an important part of the proposal is to gather a team of end users to test this stuff and then have a wiki about what breaks and what doesn't.
<StevenK> Bugs aplenty about how klamav uses an old clamav.
<dholbach> ScottK: team++
<Hobbsee> dholbach: plenty of impressive dupes over how klamav was utterly *stuffed* with the new clamav
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I can imagine
<ScottK> At least klamav runs.  Clamtk is utterly hopeless right now.
<dholbach> my proposal is: check what changed in the library interfaces, hope that it's not that much, patch the apps to work with libclamav2, upload all the stuff to -proposed, then to -updates
<Hobbsee> you'd have to build all of the rdepends against clamav-alt, i guess.
<dholbach> maybe I don't understand it correctly, but I don't see what clamav-alt would gain us
<dholbach> given that we need to rebuild stuff against it anyways
<Hobbsee> dholbach: twitch.  is anyone *seriously* that dedicated to these packages to maintained an upstream delta, which they had to do security fixes for?
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> But clamav-alt would require changes.
<Hobbsee> i'd partially be in favour of just doing clamav with a security update, or something
<StevenK> A rebuild requires a debian/changelog change.
<ScottK> dholbach: The idea would be to enable people to knowingly install the latest clamav and accept the risk.
<Hobbsee> is there really a use case for the old clamav, without security fixes?
<dholbach> ScottK: but if stuff is not built against it (and changed it need be), nothing will use it
<StevenK> Hobbsee: It's known stable? :-P
<ScottK> There are things that just work.  From the limited testing I've does, I think stuff that uses clamd is fine
<ScottK> does/done
<dholbach> What about this: get a team of people interested in clamav together and research which package needs which kind of work
<dholbach> it should be easier to go from there when we have the information
<ScottK> What underlies this issue is the different needs for desktop and server.
<dholbach> at the moment I feel that a lot of guessing is involved
<minghua> I have a question, are we trying to fix this for dapper only, or dapper, edgy and feisty?
<Hobbsee> minghua: feisty got fixed - it got a UVFe for all of it, i think
<dholbach> minghua: best to have a general solution
<Hobbsee> minghua: klamav certainly did
<ScottK> If all we cared about was servers and clamd, then it'd backport OK.
<StevenK> This will come up for feisty at some point, I daresay.
<ScottK> clamav and klamav are current in Feisty.
<StevenK> The reason it hasn't yet is because it was released last month.
<minghua> I am just thinking backporting for all three releases would increase the work quite a bit
<ScottK> At the very least I think that Dapper MUST be addressed.
<StevenK> I agree.
<Fujitsu> Edgy is unimportant, IMO
<dholbach> who would join the team and investigate in how big the changes are?
<StevenK> Even if we just say we're fixing clamav for the LTS release, and complaining Edgy users can upgrade.
<dholbach> if we do dapper, we can do edgy too (it'd be similar kind of fixes)
<StevenK> dholbach: That's conjecture at this point.
<dholbach> right - I just feel that we need more information before we can move on and make a decision
<Hobbsee> i cant really see a use case for non LTS releases - they're not servers, with the long support
<minghua> I feel we lack important information -- affected packages, their versions in three releases, so maybe better discussed on list?
<StevenK> I concur with both Hobbsee and dholbach
<dholbach> minghua: right
<ScottK> I can tell you that with some adjustments in version requirements in debian/control that don't appear to affect anything, you can build the current Gutsy clamav package on Dapper.
<Fujitsu> Isn't Feisty alright, minghua?
<ScottK> FWIW, keescook said he couldn't make it today, but he liked the clamav-alt plan
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Feisty is OK today, but how long will that last.
<Hobbsee> and klamav-alt, etc, plan, presumably
<minghua> Fujitsu: I have no idea, I haven't touched clamav at all :-)
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah yes, true.
<StevenK> I personally don't like the -alt plan.
<dholbach> let's form the team, make a wiki page with affected packages and let's try to rebuild them in dapper and edgy chroots with the new clamav and see how they work
* Hobbsee only touched klamav, when she noticed the number of bugs next to it, all about it being utterly and totally broken
<Fujitsu> Has upstream considered any method of stopping this sort of thing happening in future?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You tell funny jokes.
<ScottK> Their method is upgrade to the latest, it's less than 1.0, so no API stability is promised
<Hobbsee> i think that for this type of stuff, we *need* to make sure we're communicating about what major base libs we're updating, so that the rdepends are fixed.
<ScottK> One thing that will help in the futue is the with the klamav in Feisty the function to get a new upstream source, download it, compile it, and install it works.  I tested it.
<StevenK> I wouldn't call libclamav2 a major base lib, fwiw. :-P
<StevenK> ScottK: To /usr or /usr/local?
<Hobbsee> well, no, i meant "something with over 10 rdepends of different source packages" or something
<ScottK> To /usr/local iirc
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Why 10?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: because it's an arbitary number.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Good answer.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: and because 42 was too high.
<StevenK> ScottK: Good, just so long it doesn't wipe out the packages files.
<ScottK> So in the future, klamav users will be able to bootstrap themselves
<ScottK> StevenK: It doesn't.
<crimsun> in the interest of time, can we agree to investigate offband and report back via the list?
<dholbach> ok, let's get more information about the magnitude of work that lies in front of us
<ScottK> I tested that
<Hobbsee> crimsun: +1
<ScottK> OK
<dholbach> I agree with crimsun
<StevenK> I concur with crimsun
<dholbach> ScottK: I'm happy to help you with the team and announce it
* ScottK isn't qualified to do the library investigation work.  Who will lead that?
<dholbach> ScottK: let's discuss together with pitti and keescook
<ScottK> OK
<dholbach> ok, let's move on
<dholbach> thanks ScottK
<dholbach> persia: U-U-S Queue Procedure Review / Approval
<persia> I've put together a draft guide for the workflow (and criteria) for managing the Ubuntu Universe Sponsors queue at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue.
<persia> The idea is to have a standard workflow that keeps us from stepping on each others toes and helps move towards an empty queue.
<persia> I'd like to ask that people review it, and if there are no objections, that all people working on the queue follow this procedure.
<ajmitch> & keeping it empty :)
<joejaxx> :)
<persia> ajmitch: Exactly
<StevenK> I daresay u-u-s will never be empty. :-)
<ajmitch> we can try
<StevenK> Indeed.
<geser> what about debdiffs or sync request that need some work from the submitter? should they be set to "needs info"?
<dholbach> "in progress" and assign to the submitter?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it will when LP fixes a bug that i reported
<persia> geser: Right, set to "Needs Info", unsub UUS, assign the submitter, and ask for resubscription when complete.
<StevenK> I like dholbach's suggestion better.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: ... that removes the team? :-P
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: The searching for bugs in some context subscribed to by someone?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no - lets us search by only ubuntu bugs subscribed by u-u-s
<dholbach> can we make sure it is mentioned on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess ?
<persia> dholbach: I prefer "Needs Info" for that.  "In Progress" implies someone is doing something.  I would expect the submitter to reset if they start work.
<Hobbsee> geser: needs info, i'd prefer
<dholbach> both is fine with me
<StevenK> Yeah, okay, persia convinced me. "Needs Info" here too
<geser> is that unsub U-U-S needed immediately?
<persia> dholbach: I can add it to that page, but shouldn't we get acceptance by U-M-S first?
<dholbach> persia: at least in the universe section of it
<StevenK> I'm a member of u-m-s, but I can't speak for them.
<persia> geser: I'd argue that unsub first is important: it reduces our bugmail.
<dholbach> and yeah, good to get it discussed on devel-discuss too
<Hobbsee> who's the head of it?  ajmitch?
<persia> dholbach: OK.  I'll do that.
<dholbach> excellent
<StevenK> I thought pitti was.
<Hobbsee> right
<StevenK> Yes, it's pitti.
<crimsun> point #5 under "Notes for Contributors" - can we clarify the distinction between "bugs that require approval by ubuntu-dev" and "bugs that represent a new candidate revision"?
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: hm?
<StevenK> Hrm. We could just drag pitti in here...
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: sorry
<Hobbsee> StevenK: not a bad idea
<dholbach> and maybe refer to FreezeExceptionProcess too
* Hobbsee pings
<pitti> hi
<persia> crimsun: I was thinking rather to flesh out the MOTU/Contributing namespace (or MOTU Recipies), but we'll discuss that later.  If nothing happens, then yes.
<crimsun> persia: ok.
* ajmitch hugs pitti 
<persia> pitti I've put together a draft guide for the workflow (and criteria) for managing the Ubuntu Universe Sponsors queue at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue.  What do you think about it for main?
<geser> persia: no danger to lose some bugs as the submitter forgot to sub u-u-s again?
<Hobbsee> i'm hesitant to use assignments with all of this - until someone's actually uploading the debdiff
<pitti> oh, quite much, reading
<StevenK> Surely we don't need to assign to ourselves when we upload?
<Hobbsee> geser: then the subscriber really needs to learn to follow proceedures, as the buglist is too big to search randomly
<Hobbsee> StevenK: cant really see where we need to assign ourselves at all, really
<persia> geser: I don't think so.  I think with the new mentoring, we're developing enough active contributors that people will start searching for bugs with patches, and needs info that haven't been updated recently are good targets.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Agreed.
<Hobbsee> oh, which is what is said.
<persia> Hobbsee: Assignment is to make sure we don't collide.
<dholbach> and we should have regular universe hug days
<StevenK> persia: Surely we just comment saying "Mine! Hand's off"
<Hobbsee> dholbach: regular revu days too - pick a day of the week for each
<StevenK> Then again, that takes about as long as assigning it to yourself.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: as long as someone comments on it asap, if they can see other people working on the buglist.  not half an hour later.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ok, let's get back to that on the 'regular' agenda point :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: ah, it's on the agenda already is it?  great.
<persia> StevenK: I prefer assignment & in-progress, as it tells both the reporter and the submitter that someone is working on it in a nice way, and will translate better if LP ever gets localised bugmail.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Yeah, but the thought I had was it takes the same amount of time to do either.
<persia> StevenK: Right.
<Hobbsee> i dont care what people od, as long as they make it obvious
<Hobbsee> else i will use the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  on them.
<StevenK> persia: Damn it, stop changing my mind for me!
<pitti> persia: why 'fix committed' for uploaded packages with applied patches? that should be 'fix released'
<persia> I want everyone to do the same thing.  That reduces confusion.
<minghua> "fix released" only when it's built, I suppose?
<Hobbsee> pitti: they all like doing that because they dont know if will build on all arches
<gpocentek> hello guys, sorry for being late
<Hobbsee> seems crazy to me
<Hobbsee> hi gpocentek
<persia> pitti: No.  The submitter should set to "Fix Released" if everything builds ok.  otherwise we haven't really realeased it.
<Hobbsee> seeing as you will get emails of the buildlogs if it fails, and often people dont go back and do it.
<pitti> Hobbsee: I disagree, uploaders will get mails about FTBFS, and bugs are just forgotten to be closed IMHO
<persia> Hobbsee: We dont, only the submitter does.  This way, we can see the Fix Committed bugs in the +assigned list and clean up after them if required.
* dholbach agrees with pitti there
<Hobbsee> pitti: that's either what i said, or what i meant to say.
<pitti> persia: that's not really common practice, but *shrug* I can certainly live with it if the process makes sure that someone closes those bugs
<persia> pitti: The person uploading doesn't get the mail: the last person in the changelog gets the mail.
<Hobbsee> persia: you can also see the links in +packages
<pitti> Hobbsee: yeah, I was just too slow with typing :)
<Hobbsee> for the person who's name was in the changelog
<persia> Hobbsee: When I sponsor, it doesn't appear in my +packages.
<Hobbsee> which shows FTBFS, bugs, etc.
<dholbach> how about we discuss this on the list too? I think it's better use of our time if we collect arguments about specific points there and propose it for main on ubuntu-devel-discuss@ a week later after we're all happy - in general it's a good proposal
<Hobbsee> persia: no - it appears in the sponsoree's.
<pitti> persia: then we should rather fix that to email both (Changed-By: person and sponsor)
<Hobbsee> persia: who is the one responsible for it, of coruse.
<persia> pitti: Maybe.
<StevenK> pitti: I like that.
<persia> dholbach: OK.  I'll send the mail inviting discussion.
<Hobbsee> pitti: that'd be good
<dholbach> persia: thanks a lot
<pitti> persia: otherwise this sounds good to me
<dholbach> persia: everything clarified?
<persia> Let's move on, but if anyone wants to use the draft process in the meantime, that would be great.
<dholbach> joejaxx: MOTU Reports/Statistics
<joejaxx> alright
<joejaxx> i have been generating statics on the archive for a release now
<joejaxx> and some people have expressed that they would like expanded stats
<Hobbsee> is this MOM type statistics, or waht?
<joejaxx> right now i only do top uploaders and top 10 changed packages
<joejaxx> top 10 uploaders*
<geser> Hobbsee: http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/
* dholbach is number 3 - yooohoo
* ajmitch won't be near the top anytime soon
<joejaxx> so i was wondering if there were any other statistics that people would like to have generated
<ajmitch> top bugs opened/closed per week?
<Hobbsee> numbers of unmet deps, numbers of broken (uninstallable) packages
<dholbach> joejaxx: how about this: you put the source for the statistics generation in LP, create a product for it and ask people to file wishlist bugs on it?
<Hobbsee> highest number of dupes bugs
<joejaxx> dholbach: ok that sounds like a good idea
<dholbach> that way you even get people who work with you on enhancing it
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> joejaxx: you had some other points on the agenda too
<joejaxx> that way we have documented requets
<Fujitsu> Or put it in LP. That'd make more sense, except...
<Hobbsee> maybe even http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html type thing for universe if that helps
<joejaxx> dholbach: ah yes
<ajmitch> by the bug opened/closed, I mean like http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.cgi
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Oooh, ouch, britney for universe.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Britney, much like her namesake is a pig.
<joejaxx> i was wondering if anyone else thinks it would be a good idea to have lin{tian, da} reports on packages?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i think it may be a horrible output, though
<dholbach> joejaxx: it'd be nice if you would announce it on the list, so you get maximum exposure and maximum input
<joejaxx> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> joejaxx: your next point was?
<Hobbsee> this should be checked with teh developer weather report, from UDS, too.
<StevenK> joejaxx: And then generation time goes up by exponentionally.
<Hobbsee> a lot of this either is, or will be, generated for main
<joejaxx> i am wondering how we would go about doing that
<joejaxx> dholbach: lintian/linda reports
<dholbach> right
<StevenK> Weather Report, heh. "Gutsy is currently raining bugs."
<Hobbsee> haha
<dholbach> I think it's best adressed in a soyuz wishlist bug, what do you think?
<joejaxx> dholbach: i am guessing that would have to be a discussion with the LP devel team?
<dholbach> exactly
<geser> ajmitch: something like http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~carthik/bugstats/ ?
<joejaxx> dholbach: sure but i am wondering if anyone else sees the benefits from having them
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz
<Hobbsee> are we looking to do package stats or bugstats here?
<ajmitch> geser: except by package
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: I was suggesting a mix
<Hobbsee> i'd like to see package stats.  bugstats seem to already being done
<Hobbsee> right
<Hobbsee> at least somewhat
<ajmitch> but I don't know how useful it'll really be
<dholbach> what 'next steps' can we agree on here?
<StevenK> Tell us who to beat for breaking a package?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: no, just which packages are broken.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It's all my fault.
* Hobbsee blames Fujitsu.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: We know, thanks.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: And therefore, who to blame. :-P
<Hobbsee> yep
<dholbach> ok... joejaxx: anything you want to discuss some more?
<joejaxx> dholbach: well i am going to submit a wishlist bug for this and then poke the LP devs
<dholbach> excellent
<joejaxx> dholbach: nope i think everything was covered :)
<Hobbsee> joejaxx: anything you can do yourself will be quicker
<dholbach> laserjock is not here, he wanted clarification of the +mentoring functionatlity
<Hobbsee> LP stuff takes at least 6 months, iirv
<Fujitsu> Am I the only one who thinks that such a wishlist bug isn't going to get looked at for at least a couple of years?
<Hobbsee> s/v/c/
<dholbach> I don't think there's much to say about it, other than: use it, make heavy use of it
<joejaxx> Hobbsee: oh ok
<persia> That was raised in part because I asked that people listed on the old mentoring page +mentor some bugs.  What do people think?
<dholbach> persia: I'm not sure I understand
<crimsun> dholbach: would tie in nicely with a Q&A session (next agendum item)
<persia> dholbach: Sorry.  Context.  LaserJock's agenda item.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: if we can demonstrate the use it is for us
<minghua> Fujitsu: well, I know important bugs in main packages that haven't been looked for years, so no surprise :-/
<StevenK> An explanation of the mentoring system for idiots like me would be nice.
<dholbach> ok
<Hobbsee> StevenK: +1
<Hobbsee> StevenK: to the explanation, -1 to the idiot part.
<Fujitsu> dholbach: ... then it will get the motu tag added, and still sit around for at least a year or two.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: :-)
<Fujitsu> What Hobbsee said.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: The first, or the second? :_P
<crimsun> http://www.understated.co.uk/blog/2007/mentoring-in-launchpad/
<Fujitsu> Both, of course.
<dholbach> If you come across bugs that you would like to see fixed and that you are capable to fix, it's great to let somebody else the work and you share your knowledge and help develop new MOTUs
<crimsun> is a great intro.
<minghua> most bugs I'd like to mentor are in main packages :-(
<dholbach> minghua: that's fine
<persia> minghua: No reason you can't
<minghua> and I can't find a team to label, so I didn't offer mentoring
<dholbach> minghua: as long as you can help with them getting fixed - you can even explain the sponsoring process with that
<minghua> LP needs to be fixed on that
<dholbach> minghua: use ubuntu-dev for that as people who want to join ubuntu-dev will look there
<persia> minghua: Use ubuntu-dev
<minghua> okay, will do that, thanks
<dholbach> Fujitsu: the LP people are very busy as everybody else - the best you can do is elaborate on why it's important for you
<dholbach> any more questions about mentoring?
<Hobbsee> yes
<Hobbsee> how much is mentoring expected to be a spoon feeding process?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I suspect it will be a fair bit with -dev.
<dholbach> pointing in the right direction and agreeing to review and correcting the mentoree should be it
<Hobbsee> well, how much are we wanting it to be
<persia> My experience is that the first bug is spoon feeding, but after that it works more smoothly.
<persia> (for ech contributor)
<Hobbsee> because i've go tthe feeling we're giving off the impression of "i need a mentor to do anything, and cant do anything until i get one"
<dholbach> maybe the MOTU/Recipes will help with that
<Hobbsee> and "they will be able to help me thru absolutely everything, all the time"
<dholbach> Hobbsee: good point, I'll add that to the mentoring docs
<Hobbsee> there doesnt seem tob e a "warning, you will need to actually think and put in work to do this" type idea.
<StevenK> "Your mentor is not your guide to all things Ubuntu" etc, etc
<Hobbsee> exactly
<dholbach> it's not rude to ask people to try and check some manpages you list them
<Hobbsee> "your mentor is not a substitute brain, nor substitute documentation"
<dholbach> ok... any more questions?
<Hobbsee> no - but i suspect people will view it as such regardless
<StevenK> dholbach: Some people can take it as such,
<dholbach> as long as you're being supportive and draw a line somewhere people will understand
<Hobbsee> some extra special snowflakes then bitch about how the mentor wont do the work fro them, etc :P
<crimsun> I'm happy to do a Q&A on mentoring if there's interest. (can even do ubuntu-audio bugs  *cough*)
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> you really hate alsa, don't you, crimsun...
<crimsun> no, I love it!
<dholbach> ok, shall we move on? :)
<Hobbsee> +1
* StevenK twitches. Someone said ALSA
<dholbach> shall we have regular MOTU Q&A sessions, where contributors can ask questions and wiki-fy them afterwards?
<dholbach> what about every two weeks?
<Hobbsee> that sounds smart
<StevenK> That isn't music you're hearing, it's the sound of computed gotos!
<ajmitch> sounds good
<dholbach> they don't need a special format, we just need to make sure some of us are there
<Hobbsee> it seems to work better tahn the documentation - even people reading the logs of them afterwards
<StevenK> dholbach: Sounds good to me too
<ajmitch> dholbach: like the school? :)
<StevenK> Heh
<Hobbsee> i've often heard people going "i'm intending to go back and read teh MOTU school logs"
<minghua> dholbach: are we trying to make an MOTU FAQ here?
<StevenK> The School requires someone to be organise and teach. Q&A requires a bunch of people to answer questions.
<Hobbsee> i suspect ti'd be slightly more in depth than that
<Hobbsee> but ture
<Hobbsee> this stuff should usually be added to the FAQ
<crimsun> minghua: probably initially less "FA" and just more "Q" :)
<StevenK> We have an FAQ?
<dholbach> ok... first sessions May 31st? 0 UTC and 12 UTC?
<minghua> I would like to see such sessions happen
<Hobbsee> it's got hardly anything on it, but yes
<crimsun> dholbach: sounds good.
<geser> StevenK: the answer to this question can be found in the FAQ :)
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> I'll announce them
<StevenK> geser: Oh, blah.
<StevenK> :-p
<minghua> we alternate 0 UTC and 12 UTC every other session, right?
<crimsun> minghua: I think have both.
<dholbach> minghua: I thought it'd be good to have 2 sessions
<dholbach> so everybody has a chance to be there
<minghua> oh, *and*, that's good
<dholbach> (to have been in at least once)
<dholbach> ok, moving on
<dholbach> #
<dholbach> DanielHolbach: start off ?MOTU/Recipes, where we walk people through
<dholbach>    1.
<dholbach>       making a small change and getting a debdiff for it
<dholbach>    2.
<dholbach>       updating a package
<dholbach>    3.
<dholbach>       dropping a dpatch in a package
<dholbach>    4.
<dholbach>       use pbuilder to test if Build-Depends are ok
<dholbach>    5.
<dholbach>       etc.
<dholbach> this is something people have been constantly asking for
<persia> To go with the sponsoring documentation, I've been drafting basic information to populate the MOTU/Contributing namespace.  This would include descriptions for Fixing Bugs (using MOTU/HowToPatch), Preparing Revisions (New Document), Packaging new software (new document), and pointers to MOTU/TODO for more things to do.  Would this meet the needs of MOTU/Recipies?
<persia> My goal is something that looks like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix, but targeted at MOTU Contributors (with more knowledget, etc.).
<dholbach> some repeatable steps that show them that it's not all rocket science and tools are easy to use and give them the feeling they achieved something
<dholbach> persia: yes, that sounds very good
<Hobbsee> +1 persia
<dholbach> persia: maybe we should start each of those pages off with a series of steps they can just type in and see something happen that results in a debdiff or a package or something else
<StevenK> persia: Sounds great.
<dholbach> so they go from zero to hero in no time
<dholbach> persia: what do you think?
<persia> dholbach: Exactly.  I want to make something as easy to follow as HowToFix, but which generates more useful results (and takes a bit more work).
<StevenK> dholbach: Oh wah, the cliches have to go. :-P
<crimsun> (zero to hero!)
<dholbach> StevenK: what do you mean?
* StevenK ALSA's crimsun.
<dholbach> ok... who wants to help writing down those recipes?
* dholbach joins persia in the effort
<dholbach> who else?
<Hobbsee> persia: does
<crimsun> I'll join
<StevenK> I'll help proof-read, since I suck at writing from scratch.
<persia> I'd actually prefer to draft everythnig myself to start (should be ready tomorrow or the next day), and encourages others to edit/polish, if that works.
<dholbach> persia: that's fine too - can you mail ubuntu-motu@ about that?
<Hobbsee> sounds sane
* dholbach hugs persia
<dholbach> persia: you ROCK! it's great to have you in the team!
<dholbach> everybody hug persia :)
* Hobbsee hugs persia too
<persia> Grrr..  With responsibility comes email.  I *liked* being a contributor.
<crimsun> :-)
* StevenK hugs persia
<Hobbsee> haha
<dholbach> :-)
<Hobbsee> you can write filters for the email
<persia> Hobbsee: That's work.  See above.
<dholbach> any topic we forgot?
<Hobbsee> hahaha
<Hobbsee> point
<dholbach> on the agenda?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: world domination.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: adressed by the other points, anything else?
<crimsun> (I think that about covers the agendum)
<Hobbsee> i believe we have impending universe iceape now, too
<Hobbsee> which willb e fun, bug-wise
<Fujitsu> Not more Mozilla :'(
<StevenK> Oh, twitch.
<dholbach> ok... when will we have our next Universe HUG Day?
<StevenK> Debian has a trademark war, and we get sucked in too.
<crimsun> May 31 0 UTC, 12 UTC.
* persia suggests weekends: more contributors are available.
<dholbach> crimsun: so May 31st?
<dholbach> I'd really like for us to make an effort to mark bugs as bitesize and offer mentoring
<Hobbsee> the bitesize seems to work - just they all get done, and there's nothing left
<dholbach> we need more tasks mentors can pass on to contributors, especially if it's an easy package update or something
<crimsun> persia: this weekend, then?
* dholbach is offline throughout the weekend
<StevenK> This weekend might be too short notice.
<persia> crimsun: OK.  I like next better, as there'll be better docs on what people should do.
<crimsun> next weekend?
<dholbach> but that shouldn't hinder other to join in on the fun
<crimsun> June 2?
<Fujitsu> Yeah, 1 hour notice isn't very good.
<dholbach> (next I'll be at linuxtag)
<dholbach> but if the WE works best for everybody else, so be it :)
<crimsun> if you don't mind, then, let's shoot for June 2
<dholbach> alright
<persia> dholbach: It's just that on the weekend, there are more people (not ubuntu-dev) with time to help.
<dholbach> who write the announcement?
<dholbach> persia: right
<dholbach> ok, I'll write it
<Hobbsee> who's doing the minutes and such?
<dholbach> next motu meeting?
<dholbach> in two weeks, same time? other time?
<persia> June 15, 0 UTC?
<dholbach> that'd be june 8th
<StevenK> I can't make two weeks.
<StevenK> Three, I can.
<Hobbsee> this sort of time is good
<StevenK> If it matters.
<dholbach> that's 2 in the morning over here
<crimsun> is 1300 UTC too much a burden on EU and AU?
<persia> Hobbsee: To be fair to others, we need to adjust times :)
<Hobbsee> i'll be in exam time by then, i guess - but i should be around some
<StevenK> dholbach: A few hours earlier would work too.
<dholbach> crimsun: not on EU
<Hobbsee> persia: i'm well aware.  i'm australian, and i'm used to all the other meetings being at crap times.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: what's 1300 local?
<Fujitsu> 11pm
<StevenK> 0200UTC
<Hobbsee> oh, 11pm.  sounds sane
<StevenK> Oh woops, wrong way
<Hobbsee> sorry, 1300 UTC in local.  was unclear
<Fujitsu> StevenK: We're +10 these days.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Hobbsee confused me.
<StevenK> Which isn't hard at 11pm.
<Hobbsee> poor StevenK
<dholbach> ok... what do we agree on?
<crimsun> June 15th 1300 UTC?
<dholbach> wfm
<StevenK> June 15th, 1300UTC sounds great to me.
<Hobbsee> sounds sane, pending exams and such
<dholbach> who writes the announce?
* Hobbsee will
<dholbach> excellent, thanks Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> mind you, i said that about kubuntu-devel, and havent yet.
<Hobbsee> i suck.
<persia> I think it's unfair to people in NZ, and NA, but am happy myself.
* dholbach hugs Hobbsee too
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMenuHeader updated
<ajmitch> persia: that's ok
<dholbach> rock and roll
<Hobbsee> does that mean i'm doing teh meeting minutes as well?
<ajmitch> I won't be there
<dholbach> thanks everybody - this was an awesome meeting
<dholbach> lots of stuff covered
<Hobbsee> it was!
<Hobbsee> better than the UDS one, even
<persia> There was a UDS MOTU meeting?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: will you CC fridge-devel@?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yep
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, on reviewing
<dholbach> alright
<Hobbsee> and such
<Hobbsee> and mentoring
<StevenK> persia: In person at UDS.
<persia> Ah, I remember now.  No links.
<Hobbsee> there was VOIP
<Hobbsee> the redneck was on it, iirc
<persia> And gobby (until it broke)
<Hobbsee> yeah, true
<persia> Hobbsee: With full gain for extra breathing sounds :)
<joejaxx> lol
<Hobbsee> hehe
<crimsun> thanks everyone!
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-26
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 26 May 20:00 UTC: Marketing Team meeting | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<netmaxtechnologi> hi
<netmaxtechnologi> can u tell me how to be ubuntu partner
<netmaxtechnologi> any body here
<netmaxtechnologi> hello
<netmaxtechnologi> anybody here
<netmaxtechnologi> hi
<welshbyte> netmaxtechnologi: this channel is usually just for ubuntu team meetings, but take a look at http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/faq
<PriceChild> !partner | netmaxtechnologi
<ubotu> netmaxtechnologi: The Ubuntu partnership program is designed to encourage, recognise and endorse Ubuntu expertise and commercial initiatives. It is structured to foster a healthy ecosystem surrounding Ubuntu, to highlight those companies with certified expertise in Ubuntu and a deeper relationship to Canonical. See http://www.ubuntu.com/partners for more information.
<netmaxtechnologi> yes i know that
<txwikinger> @schedule
<ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 26 May 20:00: Marketing Team meeting | 27 May 14:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00: Community Council | 30 May 12:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00: Xubuntu Developers
<txwikinger> @schedule london
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/London: 26 May 21:00: Marketing Team meeting | 27 May 15:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 16:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 22:00: Community Council | 30 May 13:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 21:00: Xubuntu Developers
<yarddog> @schedule denver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 26 May 14:00: Marketing Team meeting | 27 May 08:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 09:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 15:00: Community Council | 30 May 06:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 14:00: Xubuntu Developers
<Burgundavia> @schedule vancouver
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Vancouver: 26 May 13:00: Marketing Team meeting | 27 May 07:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 08:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 14:00: Community Council | 30 May 05:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 13:00: Xubuntu Developers
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Marketing Team meeting | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers
<Burgundavia> hello all
<txwikinger> hello Burgundavia
<yarddog> hello
<Burgundavia> hey yarddog
<juliux> hi Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> jenda: ping
<Burgundavia> I know we are short beuno and boredandblogging
<nixternal> oi, I am gonna miss this one...like you needed me anyways :) goin' out partying with debian developers..this should be scary
<Burgundavia> heh
<nixternal> holy smokes!
<nixternal> I am missing johnlittle damnit!
<johnlittle> not anymore
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> I am getting ready to leave...actually I am going to walk out the front door right now...back later, have a good meeting everyone and get some work done already ;)
<nixternal> later
<johnlittle> cya nix
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings
<Burgundavia> right, well lets get going
<Burgundavia> first, introductions, for those who are new
* Burgundavia is Corey Burger
* juliux is Julius Bloch
* yarddog is James Bunnell
<Burgundavia> johnlittle, ronnietucker ?
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> johnlittle runs ubuntuvideo and ronnietucker is the founder and chief editor of Full Circle
<bapoumba> Hi everyone :)
<Burgundavia> hey bapoumba
<Burgundavia> I am moving past the first item until ronnietucker comes alive
<Burgundavia> item 2: new way of sending information to the marketing
<ronnietucker> sorry... present Sir!  :)
<Burgundavia> ok
* highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<bapoumba> If you have one minute at the end of the meeting, Ill have a question
<Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> the first item is really aimed at Full Circle
<Burgundavia> I really want to figure out to get those common bits, the first one being interviews, done by a general Marketing team thing
<Burgundavia> rather than lots of pestering potentially the same people
<johnlittle> You mean a content team?
<Burgundavia> for now I think we should just concentrate on interviews
<ronnietucker> as long as we'd be allowed to submit a list of questions that'd be fine.
<Burgundavia> completely
* txwikinger is Ralph Janke
<ronnietucker> fine by me.  :)
<Burgundavia> the idea would be that a group of people, from FC, UWN, behindubuntu (when I restart it) would decide on who to interview and the questions
<Burgundavia> I am happy to do it for the UWN and BU. ronnietucker: do you have somebody in mind for FC?
<ronnietucker> what we've been doing at FC is just put on the forum and in the issue who we'll interview next time so that people can email in questions...
<bapoumba> Burgundavia, one of the forums mods had suggested that
<bapoumba> aysiu
<Burgundavia> ahh
<bapoumba> to get staff interveiws
<ronnietucker> I can easily send our questions over...
<bapoumba> yu might want to check with him
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> bapoumba: will do
<bapoumba> okay
<bapoumba> he did it in the taff forum (not public)
<Burgundavia> shall we create a wiki page, listing the next target for our interview and the questions?
<Burgundavia> does that work for you, ronnietucker?
<ronnietucker> yep, sounds good to me. Just let me know who I should email me questions to when you've got it going...  :)
<ronnietucker> we have someone for #2 so our first list of questions would be sent in mid-July
<Burgundavia> and where is a good place to talk about who we want to interview next?
<Burgundavia> does the mailing list work for everybody?
<ronnietucker> i'm good  :)
<Burgundavia> excellent
<Burgundavia> I trust you to get more of your FC people on the mailing list :)
<Burgundavia> ACTION: create wiki page listing next interview target and questions
<ronnietucker> if they don't join the mailing list, i can post info on the forums and/or send out a newsletter to all
<Burgundavia> anything further to discuss on this topic?
<Burgundavia> ok, moving on
<Burgundavia> item 2: sending information to the marketing team
<Burgundavia> basically, there is now an open mailing list for people to send their cool stories/etc, to the marketing team
<Burgundavia> the email is marketing-team-submission@lists.ubuntu.com
<Burgundavia> anybody can subscribe, anybody can send (even if they are not subscribed) and the archives are open
<Burgundavia> please encourage any and all to send their stories to this list
<bapoumba> is it necessary to go there before it makes it to UWN ?
<Burgundavia> nope
<bapoumba> okay
<Burgundavia> add it straight if you want
<lecaros> what about selection of stories?
<bapoumba> thanks
<Burgundavia> this is a virtual IN box
<Burgundavia> story selection, editing, etc happens after it hits there
<Burgundavia> for those who are downstream users of news (UWN, Fridge, FC), feel free to use the stuff from there
<Burgundavia> any further questions?
<bapoumba> nope
<johnlittle> none here
<Burgundavia> any ideas on how to publicize it further?
<bapoumba> there is a sticky in the forums
<ronnietucker> could certainly add it to issue #2 of FC... ?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<bapoumba> and for UWN, a front page link
<Burgundavia> yep, plan to add it to the next issue
<bapoumba> (in the forums)
<Burgundavia> right, anything further on this topic?
<Burgundavia> mrmonday: care to introduce yourself?
<Burgundavia> mykalReborn: same
<mrmonday> ok
<mykalReborn> hi, i'm mykal
<mykalReborn> i
<mrmonday> Hi all
<mykalReborn> i'm a contributor to the full circle magazine
<mykalReborn> i haven't written to many things for the magazine
<mrmonday> I am mrmonday Full Circle magazines Q&A geek
<mykalReborn> but i've helped in the beginng
<Burgundavia> cool, welcome
<mykalReborn> thanks!
<Burgundavia> are there an DYI people here?
<Burgundavia> right, if they show up, we can do that item later
<Burgundavia> in which, we come to the newest and coolest project to hit in a while: Full Circle Magazine
<mykalReborn> what are we discussing in here?  - sorry for the late appearance
<mykalReborn> :P
<Burgundavia> ronnietucker: you want to introduce your crew?
<ronnietucker> thanks, theres myself as Editor, RobK as webmaster and roughly 20 other contributors thus far
<ronnietucker> not to mention several translators
<linuxgeekery> more than several
<bapoumba> ronnietucker, there is a group of people translating it in French (I have not closely followed the stories, but theyare working ^^
<Burgundavia> to help out with the magazine, where should people go?
<ronnietucker> the wiki page has ideas, articles and the necessary files for translating each issue
<ronnietucker> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine
<linuxgeekery> there's a message about helping out on the website, too
<mrmonday> !article
<FCMBot> If you would like to write an article for Full Circle Magazine, see http://fullcirclemagazine.org/index.php?page=9
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about article - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<ronnietucker> we also have a forum for questions - http://www.fullcirclemagazine.org
<mykalReborn> yeah, and if they want on http://fullcirclemagazine.org
<mykalReborn> they can post on the forums if they want
<Burgundavia> what about deadlines for issue 1 and 2?
<mrmonday> !deadline
<FCMBot> The deadline for issue #2 is the middle of June
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about deadline - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<janjimusptfj1> #1 thick mag :)
<ronnietucker> issue 1 deadline has been reached, deadline for #2 is mid-June
<Burgundavia> in terms of promoting issue 1, when is your timeline to get it out?
<ronnietucker> issue #1 is being proof-read just now and hopefully #1 will be out by the very end of this month, if not, start of June at the latest
<Burgundavia> anything that needs to be done with issue 1?
<Burgundavia> ie: that the community can help out with?
<linuxgeekery> I think all we're waiting on now is the interview (last time I checked)
<ronnietucker> once I get the list of potential changes, i'll implement those and #1 will be ready for release...
<Burgundavia> ok, cool
<Burgundavia> anything else you want to mention?
<ronnietucker> nothing I can think of right now...
<Burgundavia> cool
<linuxgeekery> not exactly related to marketing, but we now have a web IRC client (so people who don't know about XChat can join)
<Burgundavia> ahh, interesting
<linuxgeekery> irc.fullcirclemagazine.org
<janjimusptfj1> sorry. i confuse between #ubuntu-meeting and #fullcirclemagazie. what different?
<Burgundavia> this is a general marketing team meeting
<Burgundavia> last item on the agenda is the new Canonical marketing person
<Burgundavia> Christina, for those who knew here, left a month of so ago
<linuxgeekery> << is gone for a few
<lecaros> where can we join to translate FC?
<Burgundavia> ronnietucker: ^
<ronnietucker> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine
<lecaros> sorry delay, but main page has not information about it
<Burgundavia> lecaros: that answer your question?
<lecaros> absolutely, thanks
<lecaros> but i guess that information is important to be at FC webpage
<mykalReborn> well, if no one needs me any more, i'll be out
<mykalReborn> *mykalReborn thinks he's important or something...
<Burgundavia> the one last piece is the new Canonical marketing person, Gerry Carr
<Burgundavia> he has no Open Source experience, so there will be a learning curve
<Burgundavia> speak of the devil
<bapoumba> ho, whatis his background (if I may) ?
<Burgundavia> he just joined -marketing so just a sec
<bapoumba> ok
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> his background is marketing, just not tech
<Burgundavia> basically, from my conversation with Chris Kenyon, Canonicals BizDev person, Canonical is really only interested in doing limited marketing, in large part because we rock so much
<Burgundavia> they do the press releases for the big announcements and handle a lot of press contact
<bapoumba> ok Burgundavia
<linuxgeekery> press contact, as in magazines/websites...?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> however, local press is very much the loco teams thing
<lecaros> Burgundavia, about last topic (LoCo teams)
<Burgundavia> sure, while we wait for gerr1 to join
<lecaros> we're working with some press agency here in Chile, but it's very difficult
<Burgundavia> what is the challenging bit?
<lecaros> we're showing xubuntu in very low hardware laptops
<Burgundavia> hey gerr1
<ronnietucker> hi gerr1
<gerr1> evening all
<gerr1> i was in the wrong room sorry I am so late
<Burgundavia> no worries
<Burgundavia> lecaros: lets chat afterwords
<Burgundavia> gerr1: if you just want to introduce yourself and say a few bits about what Canonical is doing
<lecaros> sure
<gerr1> sure i am the new marketing manager for canonical working for silbs
<gerr1> is there anything in particular you want to know about in terms of what we are up to
<Burgundavia> silbs is Jane Silber, COO of Canonical
<gerr1> there's a lot of stuff
<Burgundavia> what amrketing projects is Canonical working on and how can the communtiy help with them?
<Burgundavia> marketing, rather
<gerr1> well there is definitely one - we are looking to radically improve the websites
<gerr1> ubuntu.com and canonical.com
<gerr1> anyone want to suggest some priorities on that
<gerr1> things you'd like to see?
<Burgundavia> from the Canonical people?
<gerr1> on the sites
<bapoumba> may be one
<bapoumba> on the news link, a link to UWN ?
<johnlittle> I'd love to see some video content there. The lack of that content is one of the reasons I created Ubuntu Video.
<gerr1> yeah it's a bit static untilo you actually participate in the forums
<Burgundavia> some of that has to do with what you want the website for
<Burgundavia> maybe better linked to existing community resources, such as Ubuntu Video
<gerr1> well it's not what I want it for. it's what the users want to find when they get there
<gerr1> there are two types; the browsers and the enthusiasts
<gerr1> the second group will dig and find all the cool stuff that you guys provide
<lecaros> ubuntu .com must contain articles about succesful cases switching from _other_ os to ubuntu
<bapoumba> gerr1, currently, there is spotlight, fridge, planet etc, but not UWN, do you see wich link I am talking about ? ( Burgundavia what do you think ?)
<gerr1> the other group i don't think we serve all that well
<lecaros> reasons to change, real ones!
<lecaros> perhaps an on-line tool to open office documents using OOo to read them...
<johnlittle> Now that you mention in Burgundavia I don't think Ubuntu Video is linked from any ubuntu sites.
<Burgundavia> one of things matthew n and others have been talking about is an ubuntu-website team, complete with mailing list
<johnlittle> in=it
<Burgundavia> which would be a great place to take this discussion
<lecaros> too many people do the switch when their information will be certainly safe
<Burgundavia> given time is short and we are already at an hour
<lecaros> a ML may be?
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> gerr1: if people want to contact you, how is the best way?
<gerr1> is this meeting ending - is there a summary somewhere I can get?
<Burgundavia> gerr1: we are not quite over
<gerr1> I was but to write my email is gerry.carr@canonical.com
<gerr1> anyone wants to mail me anytime they are more than welcome
<johnlittle> Thanks Gerry
<Burgundavia> and you are on the mailing list as well?
<gerr1> the marketing mailing list? yes but in summary  -- i'll change sub to real time or whatever the term is
<Burgundavia> ahh, right
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> thanks for coming by gerr1
<lecaros> better
<Burgundavia> any last items?
<Burgundavia> and I need somebody to do some minutes
<bapoumba> Burgundavia, I would have a question from some people in french forums
<Burgundavia> sure
<bapoumba> they are puzzled by the UWN numbers
<bapoumba> and sugest to label by day of release
<bapoumba> (I have no opinion)
<Burgundavia> ah
<bapoumba> I promised to bringit up ^^
<Burgundavia> right, I am no longer chief editor, but I can bring it up
<Burgundavia> anything else?
<bapoumba> especially the first number for the first week of this year being 30 something
<bapoumba> ok thanks
<Burgundavia> well, thanks everybody for coming!
<bapoumba> thanks Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> lets do this meeting thing more regularly!
<txwikinger> thanks Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> ==== MEETING OVER ====
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 14:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<sampbar> bye all
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-05-27
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<ubotu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 28 May 00:00: LoCo Team | 30 May 01:00: Kernel Team | 30 May 07:00: Community Council | 30 May 22:00: Edubuntu | 31 May 06:00: Xubuntu Developers | 01 Jun 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 27 May 16:00: LoCo Team | 29 May 17:00: Kernel Team | 29 May 23:00: Community Council | 30 May 14:00: Edubuntu | 30 May 22:00: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: LoCo Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<elkbuntu> Okies. who do we have here for the LoCo Teams Meeting?
<rafael_carreras> that's me, Catalan LoCo Contact
<elkbuntu> rafael_carreras, cool. we might wait a few moments for everyone to remember
<rafael_carreras> ok
<jenda> Burgwork: pong
<elkbuntu> calling all loco people. AlinuxOS, juliux, jenda, Burgwork, nixternal, poningru?
<jenda> whoa
<elkbuntu> muaha. we now have two!
<juliux> hi elkbuntu
<AlinuxOS> elkbuntu, I'm from Georgian (ka - ) team.
<jenda> elkbuntu: total coincidence ;) I was responding to Burg's ping from yesterday.
<elkbuntu> three! my lucky day!
<juliux> elkbuntu, what is now?
<leogg> ubuntu-ni here, morning all
<elkbuntu> ooh... i should try this pingspamming more often!
<juliux> elkbuntu, lol
<elkbuntu> anyway, welcome all
<juliux> elkbuntu, ask seveas if ubotu can do that;)
<elkbuntu> juliux, arming a bot, that interacts with users, with a pingspam feature.. is not a good idea :
<elkbuntu> hey... i didnt say he could go :(
<elkbuntu> Ok, so the main point for this meeting is to discuss the discussions had at UDS regarding LoCos
<elkbuntu> we had two formal discussions, one about resources, and one about collaboration
<elkbuntu> as a result of the resources discussion, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting has been cleaned up, and the resources available are now better explained
<Seveas> theres @nicks :)
<jenda> Seveas: shhh
<elkbuntu> bwaha. you speak, you stay and contribute!
<elkbuntu> Seveas, were you at the resources discussion?
<jenda> yes, I will :)
<jenda> for a while.
<elkbuntu> jenda, you were already captured, it's Seveas' turn :
<elkbuntu> smurf, ping? i believe you might have been there?
<jenda> elkbuntu: ah, of course - I never thought of Seveas as a LoCo team person... more like an IRC overgod ;)
<elkbuntu> he's the head of the mad dutch people army
<jenda> and if it ain't the French representation now :)
<elkbuntu> hello yann
<yann2> hey :)
* yann2 looking for the agenda
<jenda> good idea
<jenda> :)
<jenda> elkbuntu: linky?
<yann2> no i mean, where is it? ^^
<elkbuntu> jenda, i think the agenda is a wee bit old
<jenda> ok
<elkbuntu> i never got around to updating it
<jenda> so... why is it we're here? ;)
<elkbuntu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<elkbuntu> jenda, discussing the UDS things
<elkbuntu> which i cant remember all of :(
<jenda> Ah
<jenda> neither can I, but I think my memory isn't to blame this time around ;)
<elkbuntu> Burgwork, was taking nice notes, but he seems to be actually working or something
<Seveas> weaseling around...
<elkbuntu> lol
<yann2> isnt the agenda the one from last time? ^^
<jenda> elkbuntu: at 11 AM on sunday... maybe he's in church :)
<elkbuntu> yann2, yes, thats why i said it was a wee bit out of date
<yann2> *g*
<yann2> so, what are the issues today?
<elkbuntu> jenda, discussing the UDS things \n s/jenda/yann/
<jenda> hehe
<jenda> ya, I got that part... ;)
<elkbuntu> jenda, i was repeating for yann
<jenda> ok, ok :)
<jenda> elkbuntu: and those are...?
<elkbuntu> anyway, the resources issues were discussed. I cant remember who smurf said he had offloaded to, and jono was going to work on passing the mailing list request QA to someone else
<jenda> elkbuntu: for those of us who couldn't attend...
<jenda> ok
<elkbuntu> jenda, patience please
<elkbuntu> but either way, some of the bottlenecks should be gone, or should go soon in terms of resources
<yann2> I got some things i would enjoy to discuss with you, it there is an "others" in this meeting :)
<elkbuntu> secondly, we discussed collaboration between locos and other teams
<elkbuntu> yann2, we'll see how we go
<yann2> elkbuntu> secondly, we discussed collaboration between locos and other teams <- it may be this one, depending what you mean :)
<elkbuntu> richard weideman gave us an example, in terms of the education representatives that teams are encouraged to appoint
<elkbuntu> these could be someone in the team who is a teacher or has an interest in education, to help feed information into the education/edubuntu teams
<elkbuntu> basically keeping the edu guys briefed on what challenges still exist locally, what local teachers/students/institutions are looking for, etc etc
<elkbuntu> these sorts of roles can be equally appropriate for instance with the Marketing Team, or possibly even the Art Team, who with enough prodding may establish local art packages (as an example of course)
<elkbuntu> things like that.
<elkbuntu> yann2 was that what you wanted to discuss?
<yann2> points of collaboration with locos from other projets - i got sources telling me that mozilla may start a loco project
<elkbuntu> that's awesome
<elkbuntu> we most certainly encourage them to work with us
<yann2> although just rumours for now :)
<yann2> and then i don't know for you, but we have a lot of issues with that "sexism" story :(
<elkbuntu> yann2, we can discuss that one later
<elkbuntu> not in this meeting
<yann2> np
<elkbuntu> ok, i think that's about it for what i can remember from UDS
<elkbuntu> now, I'm going to remind people that now is the perfect time to start thinking about organising an event for Software Freedom Day
<elkbuntu> it's a perfect thing for locos to organise around. if there's a number of lugs running events in your countries, making sure there's ubuntu representation at those lug's events is a Really Good Idea
<jenda> elkbuntu: in my personal opinion, the main role of the marketing team is to supply LoCo teams with resources and gather them from other LoCo teams - the other roles it fulfills right now (intra-community communication such as the UWN/magazine/etc) aren't really marketing per se.
<elkbuntu> jenda, it goes both ways. translations, uwn stories
<jenda> (just my 2 regarding LoCo-MT cooperation)
<elkbuntu> locos are an ideal contact point for translators who dont yet know rosetta, for example
<jenda> indeed
<elkbuntu> someone wanting to have something to prove themselves on, before going for the real deal
<jenda> BTW, Rosetta is not used by our translation team anymore.
<jenda> It has been found insufficient for its task, as it doesn't offer enough flexibility and cooperation with the upstream.
<jenda> but that's another issue.
<elkbuntu> indeed it is
<jenda> (And I'm not the one most knowledgeable in the subject)
<elkbuntu> that is one that should be discussed directly with the rosetta guys, imho
<jenda> I believe it has been, but let's not go into that.
<elkbuntu> right. so back to Software Freedom Day... who else has started planning?
<leogg> elkbuntu, we are organizing the event here in .ni
<leogg> no lugs involved so far
<elkbuntu> for those who dont know what it is, Software Freedom Day (SFD) is on saturday september 15th, when open source addicts go out and infect others with the fever ;)
<yann2> jenda , sorry, which locoteam are you from again?
<jenda> yann2: Czech
<yann2> thx :)
<elkbuntu> leogg, it's a good idea to get them on board, as they will be able to provide additional people to help run it, and also, different information and more points of view
<leogg> elkbuntu, sadly there are no strong lugs in our country, only the ubuntu team but we have some people from suse and fedor on board :)
<elkbuntu> information about the day can be found at http://softwarefreedomday.org/ and teams that register before 31st of July will get some free tshirts, balloons and cds to help run the day
<elkbuntu> Note to self: time for a reminder about it on the loco list
<rafael_carreras> elkbuntu: good idea
<elkbuntu> for up and coming teams, organising this is a great thing to put on an application for official status :)
<elkbuntu> ok. i think this is about all for this topic. does anyoen else have anything they wanted to bring up?
<elkbuntu> ok then. meeting closed. thank you all for coming :)
<leogg> thanks for your time elkbuntu
<elkbuntu> no problem
<yann2> hum
<yann2> elkbuntu , and my topic ? /o\ :D
<elkbuntu> yann2, oh?
<yann2> the "i cant to work with mozillian (and OOo) locoteams" one :p
<elkbuntu> i think collaboration would be decided on a team-by-team basis
<yann2> i thought of something else
<elkbuntu> oh?
<yann2> canonical is providing hosting to locoteams
<elkbuntu> approved ones, yes
<yann2> mozilla is thinking of doing the same
<yann2> sun/OOo may do the same in a near-to-medium future, who knows
<yann2> i would love to see them work together on this issue
<elkbuntu> the lead of their loco projects are welcome to contact either jono or myself for advice
<yann2> its not that neither /o\
<elkbuntu> what then?
<yann2> i want to advocate to see canonical, mozilla and maybe sun open a common datacenter
<yann2> and have common rules to get like conference packs
<elkbuntu> ooooh
<yann2> hosting
<yann2> whatever
<yann2> a common company for tee shirts, aother one for stickers
<yann2> but that we share our contacts on this kind of stuff
<elkbuntu> this now goes beyond me, this should go to jono and/or gerry
<yann2> but do you think that it is possible, would you suppor it? :)
<elkbuntu> i think it is feasible, and i encourage it
<yann2> i would love if you would help spread the word :)
<yann2> i think this would make locos from different oss horizons work together
<elkbuntu> agreed
<yann2> seems mozilla hired a locoguy 6 monthes ago and that they start to get things rocking :)
<yann2> the mozillian jono seems to be Seth Bindernagel <sethb@mozilla.com>
<elkbuntu> yann2, thanks :)
<yann2> thanks for helping spread the word ;)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jun 20:00 UTC: Scribes Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 May 15:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 29 May 21:00 UTC: Community Council | 30 May 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 30 May 20:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 31 May 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 31 May 21:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-20
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 2 | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 2 | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 May 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<popey> @schedule
<ubottu> popey: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 2 | 20 May 12:00: Community Council | 21 May 06:00: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 17:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 17:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> who's here for the CC meeting?
<Technoviking> me me me
 * sbc is
<dholbach> mako?
<Seeker`> o/
<dholbach> sabdfl and elmo will join us in a bit
<dholbach> sbc: I guess you are SÃ¸renBredlundCaspersen?
<sbc> dholbach: Yes.
<dholbach> great
<elmo> avril's chasing down mark
<dholbach> sbc: so as far as I can see the only agenda item today is yours, so let's wait a bit for Mark to join in
<sbc> dholbach: I see the issue is also on LoCoCouncilAgenda - so if that is the place to go, I will wait for tomorrow. But if this meeting will adress the issue I will be happy with that.
<sbc> dholbach: Fine by me.
<dholbach> alright
<dholbach> sbc: do you have some kind of summary of the discussion or a clear proposal or clearer question?
<sbc> Question: Does canonical / ubuntu object against LoCo teams forming legal entityes?
<dholbach> Ok, we'll take the discussion from there in a bit then
<sabdfl> hello all, sorry for the delay
<dholbach> sabdfl: hi Mark - the only agenda item is sbc's - his question is " Does canonical / ubuntu object against LoCo teams forming legal entityes?"
<Technoviking> sabdfl: hello Mark
<sabdfl> do we have quorum?
<sabdfl> hey Technoviking
<dholbach> sabdfl: it's Technoviking, elmo, you and me
<sabdfl> okdokey
<Technoviking> sbc: What type legal entity, I assume some kind of non-profit.
<sabdfl> folks want to comment on the question at hand?
<sbc> Technoviking: non-profit yes.
<sabdfl> sbc: what would it be called, and where would it be registered?
<mako> greetings
<Technoviking> hey mako
<ompaul> the issue that might occur with something like this is the transfer of the organisation to "new" hands, costs and overheads etc
<sbc> Technoviking: I wont (and can't) comment on specific legal aspect of the legislation in denmark (where i'm from), but it is very common here to form a 'forening' when ever you work towards some goal.
<juliux> hi all
<sbc> sabdfl: It would be registrered in Denamark and would proberly be called Danish LoCo team or "foreningen til fremme af ubuntu i danmark" (assosiation for the advancement of Ubuntu in Danmark).
<sabdfl> how would officers or managers or trustees be appointed?
<sbc> sabdfl: By yearly meetings. Votes woubl be by all memebers of the assosiation.
<sabdfl> who would be members?
<sbc> right to vote would be granted to.
<sbc> sabdfl: Anyone who joins.
<elmo> sbc: do you have any idea how much work is involved?  in my experience of other non-profits (e.g. SPI) there's a substantially non-trivially overhead in terms of setup and maintenance
<soren> That's not the case in Denmark.
<ompaul> perhaps controlling shareholding should be vested in canonical
<soren> It's quite low overhead.
<sbc> elmo: I don't personally, but it is a verry common aproach here in Denmark.
<sbc> No shares involved.
<juliux> ompaul: canonical doesn't have that on the existing no profit ubuntu associations
<ompaul> juliux, ack
<soren> To maintain an association in Denmark, you just need to tell the local government where it's registered, who the chairman is and what the bylaws are. That's it.
<sabdfl> what about accounting, reporting, tax, etc?
<soren> You can get public funding for various things. If you want that, you need to submit a summerical financial report once a year.
<soren> it's entirely optional, though.
<soren> No taxes involved (unless you start selling stuff, of course).
<sabdfl> what are the advantages of an association like this?
<sbc> sabdfl: People can donate and be sure that the money goes to Ubuntu related pourpouses.
<sbc> Right now people have to trust each other.
<sbc> It is more easy to rent a place for a install party as a assosiation than as an individual.
<sabdfl> is there an obligation to publish records of what was donated and where it was spent?
<juliux> an normaly a associaten can have an insurance for illegal activites for a forum or a booth at an expo
<soren> sabdfl: I'm not sure.
<soren> sabdfl: If it's something people expect to deduct, I can imagine we'd need to report it to some extent.
<sbc> sabdfl: I'm not sure of the law, but you would have to present a detailed review of income and expences to the mebers each year.
<sbc> members of the association that is.
<dholbach> Who makes decisions about how to spend the money?
<sbc> there would be a board (elected each year).
<mako> so listen, we (the CC) need to understand or explain what the risks are here more clearly
<mako> it's not clear to me that we care if an organization files it's papers or jumps through beurocratic hoops correctly as long as the liability for doing that doens't fall on us
<mako> or reflect poorly on ubuntu in general
<sabdfl> there's also a reputational risk
<sabdfl> a bit like the loco virtual-machine servers which got hacked
<sbc> I see that point, but how is that any different from the risk the current LoCo teams pose to you / Ubuntu ?
<sabdfl> where we took the view initially that "it's ok, it's unofficial" but the story was reported as "ubuntu gets hacked"
<mako> right, unless we identify why we would not want to do it about, trying to argue for it is confusing me a little bit
<sabdfl> sbc: a couple of country loco teams have wanted to do this
<mako> sbc: a non-profit organization called ubuntu is a legal entity representing the proejct
<sabdfl> i don't recall if any have actually incorporated
<mako> and is going to reflect on it
<sabdfl> it couldn't be called "ubuntu", because that would be a TM problem
<sabdfl> but it might be called "association for the advancement of ubuntu"
<sabdfl> anyhow, aside from naming
<mako> sure, but that still applies endorsement, and it should
<sabdfl> the main issue we have had is lifecycle
<sabdfl> initially, usually you have strong passionate leaders
<sbc> mako: So would your problem be solved if the association was called "Danish LoCo Ubuntu Team" or "Association for the advancement of Ubuntu in Denmark"?
<sabdfl> in time however, they sometimes move on  to other projects
<sabdfl> and the folks who take over may have different aims or goals
<mako> sbc: i'm trying to identify what the problems to be solved are
<sbc> mako: ok.
<sabdfl> and in a worst-case situation, you may find that there's a vocal split in the members about what should happen
<sabdfl> i take the point that it's easier to arrange a venue etc if you have an organisation
<sabdfl> but it does create potential issues later on that we have to think through - and often the CC or Canonical ends up having to worry about them then
<mako> sabdfl: i don't have a problem with having multiple lightweight, overlapping, ubuntu non-profits
<mako> in the same way we treat loco teams
<sabdfl> mako: i don't either, if they run smoothly
<mako> now, it seems clear to me that any such organization will need to get a trademark license (even if they are called association for the advancement...)
<mako> and we can write an agreement that lays out a set of groundrules
<mako> or even just makes it revokable, and we can write a list of expectations and rules
<dholbach> there's little processes figured out and documentation for how to do it - no defined reporting from those associations to others, no processes for "what do we do if there's controversy in the association"
<mako> it sounds like one expectation that sabdfl is voicing (that i agree with) is an established and accountable system for leadership changes
<soren> mako: I imagine those ground rules would be very much like the CoC?
<juliux> mako there is allready a basic aggrement
<mako> juliux: right, i remember going through this a couple years ago
<juliux> mako: it is from 2005
<mako> so there are two documents we need
<mako> one is the legal agreement
<mako> the second is a list of expectations and groundrules
<mako> the former will be with canonical (who controls the trademark)
<juliux> http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/file/agreement/pdf/ there is the agreement ubuntu-de gets
<mako> the second might be produced/enforced by the CC
<mako> that's an idea
<dholbach> to me it sounds like it'd make sense to discuss this with the Loco Council and try to formalise what already works well, which problems there are, how to escalate and discuss those documents and processes again here - what do you think?
<juliux> dholbach: i think that would be good, perhaps we can do that this week;)
<Technoviking> dholbach: good idea
<mako> juliux: great, that seems like something i'd be happy replicating
<mako> i have one more concern that's worth mentioning
<mako> so i've seen in some other communities that legal entities have become seen as sort of a "higher level" of local community team
<sbc> So it sounds like the CC is positive to the idea - given that we signe the papers to be produced later?
<mako> i don't have a problem with groups taking on legal entities when it solves pressing problem for the group
<mako> but doing so creates a huge amount of headaches for both the loco and for folks in ubuntu and canonical
<sabdfl> ok, i'll want to check with folks at canonical on the TM front
<sbc> mako: In the discusstion we have had already in the team that has been one of our conserns. It must still be possible to come in 'from the street' and get involved and be heard even if you are not a 'member'.
<mako> sabdfl: canonical has done it before (without horrible effects) so i think it's possible
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> but if we suspect we'll do this a few times again, we should understand some rules
<mako> we had a long long conversation last time :)
<juliux> sabdfl: normaly we write a mail to trademark and everything is fine;)
<sabdfl> ok
<mako> i would suggest that teams like denmark trying to incorporate write a proposal
<sabdfl> my key issues are around accounting, governance and reputational risk to the project
<mako> where they lay out why they need to incorporate, what structure they will adopt, and how they will stay accountable
 * mako nods to sabdfl 
<dholbach> mako: that's a good point - it'd be good to have some outline about the legal liabilities in the specific countries
<soren> sabdfl: If members are required to sign the CoC, would that suffice, or are we talking about an actual legal agreement of some sort?
<mako> i'm not happy having people send a two paragrpah email saying they need to incorporate and someone at canonical just faxing over the paperwork
<juliux> sbc: if you need some help drop me a line
<mako> soren: an actual trademark agreement, take a look at the url that juliux posted
<mako> there are real limiations in that agreement that are meant to address the types of concerns that sabdfl voiced
<mako> and i suspect that any similar agreements would offer similar constraints
<juliux> soren: an agreement that gives you the right to have the name ubuntu in your assocation name, that is everything that stands in this agreeement
<soren> mako: I saw it. I just assumed that what sabdfl was talking about was something in addition to this.
<soren> That document looks fine to me, by the way.
<mako> so i'd like to see a proposal/justification from you guys
<sbc> juliux: Will do - should I catch you here or by e-mail?
<juliux> sbc: i am travelling until 1. june so better send me a mail, but we can also have some irc chat about it
<sabdfl> ok, i've pinged folks in canonical to check that they are still comfortable with the framing in that agreement
<sabdfl> but in principle, we have a basis for this
<sbc> juliux: ok, thanks
<mako> the CC needs to work out it's procedure and guidelines
<sabdfl> so, +1 assuming there are no new objections on the canonical front
<sabdfl> and +1 to the suggestion of a guideline / proposal / approval
<mako> i'd like to see a more threshed out justification and proposal from you guys
<soren> sbc: I'm cool with this approach. You?
<nealmc1> #ubuntu-devel-summit
<Technoviking> +1 for me if canonical has no problems
 * nealmc1 sighs
<sbc> soren: Yes.
<dholbach> +1 from me too - it'll be great to have more clarity there
<soren> Cool.
<sbc> But I'm not clear. Should we wait for the guidlines from the CC or should we produce a proposal for mako ?
<mako> sbc: no need to wait, i don't think
<sbc> ok
<mako> sbc: if you do a great job, we can use it as the templates for others going down the path
<dholbach> I'm sure that members of the Loco Council will be happy to review / help out
 * mako nods to dholbach 
<mako> yes, we should definitely do that
<dholbach> Rock and Roll - are there any open questions about the item right now or any other business?
<sabdfl> groovy!
<Technoviking> looks like none
<sabdfl> thanks all for accommodating the one hour deferral
<Technoviking> see everyone in two weeks
<sabdfl> and one more cheer for more interesting and productive CC meetings :-)
<sabdfl> cheers
<dholbach> have a great day everybody and see you online soon again :-)
<sabdfl> or offline, sooner :-)
<mako> sabdfl: seriously :)
<dholbach> right-o
<mako> wish i was there :)
<juliux> @schedule
<ubottu> juliux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Community Council | 21 May 06:00: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 17:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 2 | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4
<emonkey> rÃ¶rÃ¶rÃ¶ rÃ¶rÃ¶ rÃ¶
<lousygarua> did i miss it, again?
<Pici> lousygarua: Which?
<lousygarua> Pici, the CC meeting
<Pici> lousygarua: Yes.
<lousygarua> ah well.
<lousygarua> cu next time
<Seeker`> lousygarua: by about 2 hours
<lousygarua> i didn't watch my schedule this morning
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
<Pretto> what happened to the meeting for new member approval????
<popey> Pretto: the cc doesn't do new member approvals any more
<popey> Pretto: the regional boards do
<Pretto> popey, yes.. i know that.. but how can i be well informed about when and how?
<popey> Pretto: which region are you in?
<Pretto> popey, America
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<nixternal> Pretto: we are going to have a meeting next week....
<nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<nixternal> :p
<nixternal> popey beat me to it
<popey> :)
<popey> wakey wakey nixternal
<Pretto> popey, nixternal thank you
<nixternal> aren't you supposed to be partying in prague or something? :)
<popey> nixternal: :) waiting for roomie to get back from the pool, then off out
<nixternal> ahh, groovy, don't have to much fun, drink something for me (and get a picture of it) :)
<popey> heh
<lukehasnoname> Meeting!
<lukehasnoname> T - 75m
<Rafik> @now
<ubottu> Rafik: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 20 2008, 18:48:37 - Next meeting: Platform Team in 11 hours 11 minutes
<lukehasnoname> What?
<lukehasnoname> It says it's almost 20:00 (8pm) in London
<lukehasnoname> london's GMT, right?
<Pici> What meeting?
<lukehasnoname> Server team
<Pici> Thats tomorrow.
<Pici> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/2008/05/21/day/all/all
<Pici> lukehasnoname: ^
<lukehasnoname> Son of a beach
<lukehasnoname> damnit, I was waiting all day for it too
<lukehasnoname> oh well
<Nafallo> no. London is BST :-)
<Syntux> @schedule
<ubottu> Syntux: Schedule for Etc/UTC: 21 May 06:00: Platform Team | 21 May 07:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 16:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00: Server Team | 22 May 07:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00: Desktop Team
 * Rafik is away: TrÃ¨s afk... j'crois que j'suis en train de rÃ©viser
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-21
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 16:00 UTC: LoCo Council | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5
<Palintheus> @schedule chicago
<ubottu> Palintheus: Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3 | 21 May 11:00: LoCo Council | 21 May 16:00: Server Team | 22 May 02:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 08:00: Desktop Team | 23 May 04:00: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5
<effie_jayx> @now
<ubottu> effie_jayx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2008, 14:51:24 - Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3
<RoAkSoAx> @now
<ubottu> RoAkSoAx: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2008, 15:14:13 - Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 3
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5
<juliux> hi
<juliux> meeting will start after we get some drinks at uds;)
<JanC> hehe, I just fetched a beer from the fridge (had to run to be home in time)  ;)
<effie_jayx> juliux,  you guys are elite :(
 * effie_jayx settles from a papercup of water
<juliux> chairman?
<effie_jayx> I can do
<juliux> cool
<effie_jayx> is anyone here?
<popey> moo
<juliux> moo
<effie_jayx> everyone I ment
<Syntux> Hey, I'm bit late;
<juliux> don`t worry
<effie_jayx> anybody else from the Council?
<juliux> boredandblogging: ready?
<effie_jayx> JanC is here
<boredandblogging> ok
<boredandblogging> i think the first thing on the agenda was mine
<juliux> think we should take a look to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda and we should discusee what we are doing today
<boredandblogging> yeah
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  you chairman then
<Syntux> +1 for discussing legal entities
<juliux> Syntux: i think we will not doing this today
<juliux> the cc meetings aid to the denish team that they should work on a provopsal
<boredandblogging> ok
<boredandblogging> jjj
<Syntux> ok
<JanC> I know that the Dutch team is thinking about legal entities too
<juliux> yes
<juliux> i think we should wait untile the cc had made a discussion
<JanC> juliux: you talked to SWAT I guess?
<effie_jayx> boredandblogging,  shall we begin then?
<JanC> SWAT = Sebastian
<juliux> JanC: yes but not about legel entities
<Syntux> I sent an email including a concept letter to Mark, Alan, Juliux and Nick regarding that issue.
<juliux> effie_jayx: yes pls
<huats_> effie_jayx: boredandblogging has some connection pb
<juliux> Syntux: wen you sned it?
<effie_jayx> ok
<juliux> when
<Syntux> juliux,  19 May
<juliux> Syntux: no mail here from you
<Syntux> actually I have a meeting with HRH Princess Sumaya next week and this is why I'm pushing for discussing legal entities.
<bandb_uds> this is nick, I'm using popey's eee
<effie_jayx> juliux,  shall we hold on for boredandblogging  then?
<Syntux> juliux, I sent it to jabber@juliux.de
<bandb_uds> ok, lets do the first thing on the agenda
<popey> agreed bandb_uds
<bandb_uds> my idea is that we need to come up with a formal mission statement
<bandb_uds> basically...
<bandb_uds> a purpose statement
<bandb_uds> I've noticed a lot of confusion in the community...
<bandb_uds> and the press between Ubuntu and Canonical
<bandb_uds> so lots of new LoCos
<bandb_uds> think that Canonical should provide us with everything
<juliux_> Syntux, that is not a valid email address
<juliux_> bandb_uds, good
<juliux_> Syntux, pls use jbloch@ubuntu.com
<popey> Syntux: alanpope@ubuntu.com
<bandb_uds> While Canonical obviously is Ubuntu's main sponsor
<juliux_> yes that is a real issue
<bandb_uds> we obviously aren't the same thing
<bandb_uds> I think we need to get into the habit of the LoCos supporting ourselves
<Syntux> juliux, popey sent.
<bandb_uds> and not being so dependent on Canonical
<juliux_> Syntux, thxs
<nixternal> GO LOCO!
<nixternal> or go crazy, whichever fits the best :p
<bandb_uds> then LoCos know who to contact (other LoCos)
<bandb_uds> and it takes pressure off Canonical
<bandb_uds> to support us so much
<bandb_uds> so thats my main thing
<bandb_uds> I want LoCos to work together to help ourselves
<juliux_> i think that sounds real great idea, to push that "mission" to the locos
<popey> I agree that there is a lack of perception of LoCo in the community
<popey> and what LoCos do, and what canonical and the wider Ubuntu project is "obliged" to contribute to those LoCos
<huats_> bandb_uds: that is I think the idea that jono want to promotte with loco twinning
<Nafallo> makes sense
<popey> yes, with twinning an "approved" loco could "twin" with an unapproved loco to help them build up and get approved
<juliux_> i think i we get this statement clear to the loco teams there is a benfit for the locos so they know what support they get from canonical and what not and there is a win for canonical because the locoteams will grow on there own side
<bandb_uds> huats_: I agree, LoCos helping LoCos
<effie_jayx> how is twining different from mentoring
<huats_> and I think that to push to further it is almost the idea of independency that is on stake
<bandb_uds> I think twining/mentoring is part of it, but like popey said, there is a perception issue
<effie_jayx> right
<effie_jayx> so we are to decide on the mission of the council? or is there a proposal for a mission statement
<JanC> maybe we'll have to write down some suggestions or rules about sponsoring & cooperation with other companies too?
<juliux_> i think we are mixing issues, at first we should spread the mission and then work on the misson;)
<bandb_uds> the LoCos are not extension of Canonical, we need to support ourselves
<huats_> bandb_uds: +1
<juliux_> bandb_uds, +1
<doctormo> hello
<popey> we need to be self sustaining
<huats_> I mean we shoudl accept any help from canonical but not depend/wait on it
<bandb_uds> popey: exactly
<popey> and not keep asking for it :)
<bandb_uds> right, we shouldn't have expectations
<huats_> popey: definitly
<bandb_uds> ok, so I think we are agreed in general?
<popey> well, we shouldn't have _high_ expectations
<bandb_uds> popey: fair enough :-)
<effie_jayx> +1
<nxvl> that what i was telling you about, in Peru we are having this ways to have our own incomes
<popey> i think if we're more self sustaining then when we do ask for stuff from Canonical, we may actually get something
<popey> if we can prove that we can do this stuff on our own
<doctormo> popey: I think it's more important to work with Canonical and other LoCo teams than to beg from them.
<popey> prove that we can work without their help
<popey> doctormo: canonical have a very limited resource for "us"
<popey> that's why I suggest that we try to help eachother, support eachother
<doctormo> popey: but we don't, and we're not yet offering somethign in return.
<doctormo> popey: And I agree about cross support
<popey> doctormo: "we don't" what?
<bandb_uds> exactly what popey sai
<huats_> and the great side that if we do not depend on canonical we can still have our own word...
<popey> ask canonical?
<popey> ok, so we need to come up with a simple mission statement
<popey> and send to the list for approval?>
<popey> and the cc?
<juliux_> so we will write the mission down then we will send it to the lococontacts liste and will discuss it here;)
<juliux_> i think cc is good
<bandb_uds> i think we can cc the cc into it
<popey> ok, shall we move on?
<juliux_> yes pls;)
<bandb_uds> but yeah, lets come up with a few suggestions and try them out on the loco-contacts
<bandb_uds> yes
<effie_jayx> yep
<bandb_uds> effie_jayx: you next?
<effie_jayx> ok
<doctormo> To advocate and communicate the availability of ubuntu as an alternative in local communities?
<effie_jayx> we were working on the new approval process for LoCo teams
<effie_jayx> and one of the elements needed to help us decide if a team is ready or not is a set of rules or guidelines that the CC has used for the longest time
<effie_jayx> we have all worked together to give some more definition to these guidelines and you can find them  here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamApprovalGuidelines
<effie_jayx> these come from a suggestion from jono and they have some little things I have added
<effie_jayx> Shall we go through this quickly?
<effie_jayx> just to see if we all agree on this
<bandb_uds> effie_jayx: yes
<effie_jayx> great
 * popey reads
 * juliux_ reads
<effie_jayx> These guidelines see that the Team sees the approval not only as a reward but also a commitment to continue participating asactive or even more
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5 | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<popey> is this copy/pasted from what the cc used to use?
<effie_jayx> popey,  I added some elements
<effie_jayx> and defined a bit
<popey> I am uneasy about the "trusted with CD" element
<effie_jayx> Do the council feel this team could be trusted with additional resources such as additional CDs and being sent equipment for use?, Extra resources encourage more participation therefore, Being able to administer their resources is paramount, making sure that the team has what they need to promote ubuntu locally .
<doctormo> my system76 computer crashed, can you guys recap
<juliux_> !log?
<ubottu> Factoid log? not found
<effie_jayx> popey,  what exactly do you feel is questionable?
<popey> if a loco passes all the other criteria, then by implication they would be responsible
<popey> it's an unncessary requirement
<effie_jayx> popey,  right... it looks tacky?
<popey> a bit, yes
<juliux_> i also think it is not a requirement
<JanC> you mean the word "trusted" can be seen as offending to some people?
<popey> e.g. if a loco passed all the others, how would you measure that one?
<effie_jayx> popey,  I left it untouched
<bandb_uds> i agree with popey
<Syntux> and if I may state my opinion, mailing list activities isn't a  good measure for team activities in all cases; in our case Ubuntu-Jo it's easier to call for a meeting by phoning the members and it's easier to meet face-2-face than setting up IRC meeting or discussing anything over the mailing list, this is how we have been doing it and it works like charm here.
<popey> ok, it's possible people could take CDs and ebay them
<effie_jayx> I think we must ask what the rationale was behind it
<juliux_> popey, yes it is possible but if they sell them localy you didn't get a notification about this
<effie_jayx> Syntux,  sounds good to you, but how do you journalize these meetings?
<JanC> Syntux: do you make meeting reports afterwards then?
<juliux_> so i think that is a point which we can' t "controlled"
<popey> exactly, so it seems somewhat moot
<popey> maybe we could get clarification on that from the cc
<Syntux> effie_jayx, JanC yeah we put MOMs in google DOCs and/or we take the action directly
<popey> but I am overall happy with the rest of it
<nxvl> yes, but you can see at the events photos or with some prove about events that their are going to use the right way
<popey> Syntux: could you paste them into the wiki?
<nxvl> i think
<effie_jayx> popey,  we could discuss further to try and sencibilize that bit of the guidelines
<popey> yes effie_jayx
<nxvl> should not be a hard point to take care about, but an optional one which gives extra point
<m-c> I find voice communication most effective to determine who is really interested in real-life loco activities.  Replies to a mailing list are much less effective indicators.
<bandb_uds> adding photos or wiki reports would be excellent
<nxvl> points*
<popey> but overall, +1 from me for that list
<effie_jayx> notice the wording to ensure further participation
<juliux_> Syntux, in general irc and mailinglist is easier to access for everybody so we recommend that, but i a locoteam is doing it an other thing well, i think we will not have any problems with that
<Syntux> popey, of course we can do that; but why the MOMs matter?
<bandb_uds> we need to see some evidence that something is going on
<effie_jayx> most people see approval as a goal ... a place you reach
<popey> Syntux: it's a central place for everyone to collaborate
<juliux_> this rules are not written on stone so i am happy with that list
<popey> Syntux: we request team reports to be placed on the wiki
<effie_jayx> and then it's all downhill from there.. and it is not... It is where the real commintment begins
<huats_> effie_jayx: that is why I think tthere is a need for re-approval (which is the next point)
<effie_jayx> great then
<effie_jayx> so all in favor let's vote to approve (with comments)
<popey> +1
<JanC> maybe the team leadership shouldn't always be concentrated into 1 person?
<juliux_> +1
<popey> (with clarification from cc)
<bandb_uds> +1 for clarification
<Syntux> popey, we do reports but not MOMs because it's usually (jad call X arrange for Y, Faisal burn the CDs with his gamers friends, Khamis prepare lecture for X and Y) and we don't see any meaning of publishing such thing.
<doctormo> what are we voting on? I see no statement
<JanC> (otherwise I'm also +1 on this)
<popey> Syntux: we could discuss this on the locoteams mailing list if you like?
<popey> I'm sure others would value this conversation, and getting involved in it
<JanC> Syntux: the meaning is us seeing you are doing something  ;)
<juliux_> doctormo about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/TeamApprovalGuidelines
<Syntux> popey, sure I will move it there.
<juliux_> Syntux, thxs
<popey> cool, thanks Syntux
<Syntux> JanC, we do report activities after it's done but not meetings.
<juliux_> so next point?
<effie_jayx> JanC,  do the guidelines make reference to just one Contact?
<huats_> Syntux: I mean, even if you don't do a MOM right now, then you should in the future
<bandb_uds> re-approval dates
<JanC> Leadership within the team must be build upon fairness and openess. The team must be in agreement with the fair apointment of a leader. This leader must represent the team in different situations in an efficient and effective manner, so the leader's commitment towards the team is paramount.
<juliux_> we have 20minutes left so pls lets move on
<popey> JanC: again, another one for the list - open discussion IMO
<bandb_uds> i've added anniversary dates for when some LoCos need to be re-approved
<JanC> okay  ã
<popey> I'd like to see the question of leadership discussed, it's an interesting topic I have opinions on
<popey> but we don't really have time for it here I think
<bandb_uds> if there is no anniversary date for them, the LoCos were approved more than a year ago
<bandb_uds> and need to be reapproved anyway
<juliux_> popey, we can do that on the next cc meeting
<effie_jayx> bandb_uds,  have we decided on the procedure for this to happen then
<juliux_> effie_jayx, the process will be the same like a first approval;)
<bandb_uds> effie_jayx: for re-approval
<bandb_uds> we talked about starting with 3
<bandb_uds> that already need to go through re-approval
<juliux_> bandb_uds, 4;)
<popey> 4 teams for re-approval in the first meeting
<bandb_uds> 4, sorry, contacting thenm
<bandb_uds> and going through the process
<effie_jayx> I thought we said something less paperwork like
<popey> giving them warning
<juliux_> effie_jayx, there is a loft of this on the community-loco-council document on gobby.ubuntu.com
<nxvl> why did you re-approve teams?
<popey> to ensure they continue to do good work
<popey> and don't go stale
<popey> or disappear
<nxvl> or
<juliux_> and to see if they needs some help from the council
<popey> and to motivate them to do more good work
<nxvl> oh, so is kind of a loco membership expiration?
<popey> yes agreed juliux_
<bandb_uds> being approved isn't the goal, its just a milestone
<effie_jayx> nxvl,  to make sure they live...
<popey> yes nxvl
<bandb_uds> so...
<effie_jayx> ajam
<juliux_> when we will start with reapproval?
<bandb_uds> we will soon be contacting 4 locos that need to approved
<popey> we need to schedule who is going to be looked at first and let them know as soon as possible
<juliux_> and how we will select the 4 teams?
<popey> juliux_: random
<bandb_uds> randomly
<juliux_> random is good
<juliux_> so we will give them 2 month time? or 1month?
<popey> cat /dev/urandom > juliux_
<bandb_uds> and lets see they all need to be reapproved by July
<popey> where "all" means all 4
<bandb_uds> s/see/say
<effie_jayx> can we have updates on their process to have a clear idea on what they need to do and how they have done it and if they found any problems aloing the way?
<popey> yes effie_jayx
<popey> and offer help
<popey> mentorship
<bandb_uds> effie_jayx: yeah, thats a good idea
<effie_jayx> popey,  exactly
<popey> etc, if they are having difficulties
<juliux_> so we have to select 4 teams for reapproval in july;)
<popey> yes
<nxvl> and how it will work if the LoCo still works, but the leader has disapear with all the access?
<juliux_> who will run the random skript?
<juliux_> nxvl, we will work with the loco to find a new leader
<popey> nxvl: we work that out with the loco
<effie_jayx> juliux_,  bandb_uds has a compehensive list already
<popey> :)
<juliux_> bandb_uds, pls take 4;)
<nxvl> well, i don't think the problem will be the leadership, but the permissions/access to the mailling lists, irc channels, etc...
<JanC> yeah, maybe it's a good time for locoteams to check those things  ;)
<juliux_> ok the council wil select 4 and then inform them privatly
<popey> ..rather than announce it here so they are under the spotlight
<juliux_> nxvl, that are points we can work together withthem;)
<bandb_uds> ok, so next point?
<doctormo> Have any of the other LoCo teams considered LoCo specific development projects? Getting some software that helps us organise?
<popey> nxvl: we have processes in place for fixing things like that with ubuntu ops, forum mods etc
<popey> doctormo: I'd send that to the loco list if I were you
<popey> as it's not an agenda item right now
<JanC> popey: but reapproval can be a good time for teams to think about such things
<juliux_> yes lets come to the next point;)
<doctormo> popey: Oh I thought you'd ran out of items, you seem to be just talking about the same thing over and over.
<popey> JanC: yes, but we don't want to put them in the spotlight before _they_ know :)
<effie_jayx> next up: Resource Allocation Process Doc - any progress?
<viperhoot> with the reapproval, the loco teams again considered new?
<bandb_uds> who was supposed to do that?
<JanC> viperhoot: not new, just not dead  ;)
<popey> doctormo: seen the agenda?
<JanC> bandb_uds: popey?
<juliux_> popey, ?
<popey> hmm?
<popey> was it me?
<bandb_uds> hold on
<juliux_> Resource Allocation Process Doc
<juliux_> ?
<popey> not done yet
<bandb_uds> ok
<popey> postpone to next meeting
<bandb_uds> next?
<bandb_uds> conflict resolution
<bandb_uds> juliux?
<juliux_> it is started but not finished
<juliux_> i will work on this during this week
<bandb_uds> next?
<bandb_uds> legal entities
<Syntux> JordanTeam ?
<popey> juliux_: grab us if you need help this week given we're in UDS
<JanC> legal entities
<juliux_> legal entities are up to the community council
<effie_jayx> sounds fair to me
<bandb_uds> yeah, the CC discussed it yesterday
<juliux_> the denish team has the task to write a proposal for that
<bandb_uds> please check their logs
<juliux_> so lets wait
<effie_jayx> I suggest we all be there when a final resolve on the issue is given
<effie_jayx> all the LoCo council
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2008-May/002198.html
<JanC> if possible, yes
<popey> so we need to talk to the cc and canonical about this?
<effie_jayx> des the LoCo Council have an assesment for the CC
<effie_jayx> ?
<bandb_uds> +1
<popey> how about whilst at UDS we get some time with sabdfl and other cc members to get some direction?
<effie_jayx> we might get asked our opinion on the issue?
<juliux_> popey, a good idea
<effie_jayx> popey,  I think that is a good start...
<JanC> popey: if that's possible, that would be nice
<popey> Matt East in that thread kind of threw it up in the air to the loco council, cc and canonical
 * effie_jayx has got to go to USD next time
 * effie_jayx sets up ... help.effiejayxgotousd.org
<JanC> effie_jayx: just organise it and you must be there...  ;)
<doctormo> We need to talk about how some things we want to do are made difficult by not having any incorperated body.
<popey> yes doctormo thats something we need to consider
<juliux_> doctormo, legal entities is up to the cc and not to the loco council atm
<popey> but not something we can really decide on now without some input from the cc and canonical
<JanC> doctormo: you can sometimes use another legal entity as a proxy
<doctormo> juliux_: it's up to neither, they can advise us as teams but IMO it's up to teams.
<popey> JanC: I'd rather not get into it now/here
<popey> all we can do is advise
<popey> we can't specifically give you a direction based on your local law / regulations
<doctormo> popey: Indeed, that is why leaving it up to the CC is not good. it seems like passing the buck
<JanC> we can point to several possible options for teams to consider though
<popey> we aren't leaving it up to the cc
<popey> we are discussing with the cc and canoincal
<juliux_> doctormo, we will work with them on that but we will not make any decision about it today!
<effie_jayx> popey,  I agree with you
<JanC> and on the locoteam least  ;)
<JanC> list
<doctormo> popey: why are the CC and cononical not here to talk about it then?
<bandb_uds> because they talked about it yesterday
<bandb_uds> check the CC logs
<juliux_> bandb_uds, +1
<bandb_uds> and there are action items
<effie_jayx> doctormo,  and this is our meeting, we organize our ideas and we escalate them to CC if needed
<doctormo> bandb_uds: having every person read every log is a waste of time, is there a summery?
<popey> doctormo: it's not every log, it's one log
<juliux_> the danish team has the task to write a provosal about that
<juliux_> and then the cc will review that
<effie_jayx> time gents
<juliux_> and the cc will talk with canonical about trademark issuses about this
<popey> indeed, beer calling
<juliux_> popey, +1
<doctormo> -1
<Syntux> doctormo, that one is short and sweet http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/05/20/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<juliux_> so when we will have the next meeting?
<juliux_> in two weeks? or in four week?
<popey> 2
<juliux_> ok
<effie_jayx> ok
<effie_jayx> set a date for next meeting
<popey> teams to approve etc
<effie_jayx> ?
<m-c> does prague still have great beers available for less than a dollar each?  ;)
<juliux_> so next meeting is at the 4th of june
<popey> stuff to do, so it makes sense to get it done soon
<effie_jayx> next meeting we are doing approvals?
<juliux_> m-c, yes
<popey> m-c: if you go to the right places :)
<Syntux> no approval for today?
<juliux_> Syntux, we are running out of time
<Syntux> oh God
<Syntux> ok
<nxvl> m-c: they cost between 30 and 35 monetary units, which change i don't know
<effie_jayx> Council, next meeting will be?
<popey> we are scheduling the next meeting for 2 weeks which is pretty quick, so we can get the approvals done
<juliux_> effie_jayx, 4th june
<effie_jayx> time?
<JanC> what time?
<juliux_> i will check with the edubuntu and server team at which time they have there meetings
<juliux_> so we don' t get in conflict with them
<juliux_> and then i will let you known
<Syntux> I wonder if you guys could consider JordanTeam application today as I'm traveling the first two weeks of June.
<popey> -n
<m-c> nxvl: and you get to have vistas of castles while you enjoy it.  oh, the trials of the free software developer...  ;)
<popey> Syntux: we really dont have time
<juliux_> Syntux, i personal had no time yet to ready your application
<popey> we are going to get kicked out soon
<bandb_uds> feel free to subscribe to the agenda page
<nxvl> m-c: :D
<juliux_> Syntux, where are all busy with uds and we need now some beer;)
<Syntux> lol ok
<juliux_> so cu in 2 weeks
<juliux_> Syntux, we are working sine 9:00 ;)
<juliux_> cu later
<JanC> Syntux: maybe someone else from the team can help?
<bandb_uds> to get notified of any changes
<doctormo> I don't think I'll join these meetings again, I don't see the point.
<popey> we need to check with other teams to fix the time
<popey> and will add it to locoteam list
<Syntux> juliux, popey can you confirm if you got the PDF?
<popey> and fridge
<popey> Syntux: i did
<juliux_> Syntux, i did
<juliux_> cu
<Syntux> JanC, maybe I will check with them.
<effie_jayx> popey,  the minute for the meeting
<effie_jayx> since you are 3 and are with beers it should come easily... so the USD attendees can do it
 * effie_jayx runs
<bandb_uds> thanks all for coming
<effie_jayx> bandb_uds,  thank you
<bandb_uds> see ya all later
<Syntux> yeah, later.
<Celvin> Aproval never comes :-(
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  it takes time
<effie_jayx> we are just settling in
<Celvin> effie_jayx, I guess :-(
<effie_jayx> making sure we are on the right page
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  are you in any of the teams
<Celvin> El Salvador LocoTeam
<effie_jayx> I am currently reviewing El salvador and Peru
<Celvin> :-O
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  yep
<Celvin> oooH, good! if I can help just say me
<effie_jayx> Celvin, well today you saw the guidelines and what we expect
<Celvin> A little of
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  one thing you need to make sure is that your teams covers a good number of it
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  it'll be another two weeks but it'll give you time to be approval ready
<Celvin> effie_jayx, Registered members are about 47
<Celvin> but this 28, 29 y 30 of this mounth we will have a big meeting with approximately 200 people
<Celvin> effie_jayx, in the mailling list have 68 members and in the launchpad 45
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  numbers are good...
<effie_jayx> I remember ve had something along 74 members when it asked for approval
<effie_jayx> Celvin,  are you in #ubuntu-locoteams
<effie_jayx> ?
<Celvin> nop
<Celvin> effie_jayx, now yes
<Celvin> :-D
<MooDoo> hello
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5 | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<Lukehasnoname> hax
<Lukehasnoname> What time is it GMT?
<Lukehasnoname> Damnit! CDT is -5, not -6
<Seveas> @now
<ubottu> Seveas: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2008, 18:40:45 - Next meeting: Server Team in 2 hours 19 minutes
<Lukehasnoname> ...
<Lukehasnoname> @now
<ubottu> Lukehasnoname: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2008, 19:53:02 - Next meeting: Server Team in 1 hour 6 minutes
<Lukehasnoname> Hello all
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5 | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team
<Lukehasnoname> @now
<ubottu> Lukehasnoname: Current time in Etc/UTC: May 21 2008, 20:59:24 - Current meeting: Server Team
<Lukehasnoname> There isn't a meeting, is there?
<Lukehasnoname> UDS
<Lukehasnoname> damnit
<juliux> 2
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 22 May 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 4 | 22 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 23 May 09:00 UTC: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5 | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-23
<xtrender> hello.
<xtrender> its possible create a private folder in code.google.com??
<bimberi> xtrender: Congratulations! I'm awarding you the "Offtopic post of the day award" :)
<bimberi> xtrender: http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=56489&topic=10435
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Developer Summit - Day 5 (Last Day) | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board
<juliux> morgen
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 May 20:00 UTC: EMEA Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 28 May 06:00 UTC: Platform Team | 28 May 17:00 UTC: Launchpad users meeting | 28 May 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 29 May 01:00 UTC: Americas Ubuntu Membership Approval Board | 29 May 13:00 UTC: Desktop Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-05-24
<stgraber> vi
<stgraber> oops :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-18
<codename> Hey!
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
 * zaafouri is away (brb =))
<amine> salut les tux
<codename> Hey!
<codename> I have a question
<codename> disconnect
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-19
<cprofitt> 7 minutes until meeting of #ubuntu-learning
<montel> cprofitt: what is that?
<pleia2> montel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
<cprofitt> 1 minute until meeting
<montel> 45 sec till meeting
<montel> lol
<cprofitt> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is cprofitt.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Welcome
<MootBot> New Topic:  Welcome
<cprofitt> Hello everyone...
<cprofitt> roll call please
 * cprofitt here
 * pleia2 here
 * montel here
<cprofitt> ok... well lets get rolling... if you come in late please just say here.
<bodhi_zazen> here :)
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
<cprofitt> doc is not here...
<cprofitt> but the topic is still valid...
<doctormo> Aye aye
<cprofitt> ah... here he is...
<cprofitt> your up - licensing doctormo
<doctormo> Thanks for the prod pleia2
<pleia2> np :)
<doctormo> I propose that we use CC-BY-SA licenses for anything created inside of the project and restrict the use of derivitive sources with licenses more restrictive than that.
<cprofitt> I am not following that doctormo
<pleia2> what are our specific concerns WRT people taking content?
<cprofitt> what do you mean by the second part of that...
<doctormo> I recommend commercial use be made possible, even promotted and I would recommend not using CC-NC sources. Although this doesn't apply to linked material.
<cprofitt> I agree on not using NC
<doctormo> cprofitt: This may be contentius because it means we can't use the offical desktop manual from Canonical.
<cprofitt> because they license it differently?
<pleia2> I think that would be unfortunate
<bodhi_zazen> why can we not user the official desktop manual ?
<cprofitt> I would like to explore the why we can not...
<bodhi_zazen> is the content on your site not separate ?
<cprofitt> How is the official manual licensed?
<bodhi_zazen> I think liscencing is something well worth discussing , as in say we link to other pages ?
<cprofitt> the manual is [TOPIC]
<cprofitt> the manual is BY-NC-SA
<cprofitt> I think we have to preserve the license of the original content holder...
<cprofitt> we can not alter it.
<doctormo> correct
<doctormo> We will not be allowed to use our own dervivitive works, based on that, in a commercial setting (which may be unfortunatly broad)
<bodhi_zazen> link to various options ?
<cprofitt> is there a way for us to link to it... as a reference manual...
<doctormo> cprofitt: linking is fine, we don't need to agree to the license to link.
<cprofitt> So we do not derive anything from it...
<cprofitt> we just tell people to go read it...
<cprofitt> make our own...
<doctormo> correct, and any other materials that are restricted where we can't get clear re-licensing.
<cprofitt> or make that one course comply with BY-NC-AA
<cprofitt> ok...
<cprofitt> everyone understand that legal issue?
<bodhi_zazen> no :)
<doctormo> It would have been good to have greg-g in here to talk about it
<pleia2> I nudged him, he doesn't appear to be around
<bodhi_zazen> I did not prep for this discussion
<cprofitt> ok... well... I think we need to get advice from greg-g on how restricted we are with using materials in our course
<cprofitt> if we are linking to them and not coping them and putting them in the course
<cprofitt> does everyone agree we need to have this topic taken as an action item with greg-g?
<bodhi_zazen> Well, is copy not plagiarism ?
<pleia2> cprofitt: +1
<bodhi_zazen> we need permission on the contents we link or "copy"
<cprofitt> I do not think we need permission to link bodhi_zazen, but we would need permission to copy or derive work from
<cprofitt> and the real question is - if a course using that as a reference is a derivative work...
<cprofitt> I would think not
<bodhi_zazen> well, link no
<cprofitt> but we should ask greg-g
<bodhi_zazen> but what about displaying the contents of say a wiki page ?
<cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt - ask greg-g about restricted license reference material linked too
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt - ask greg-g about restricted license reference material linked too
<cprofitt> that would depend on the license of the wiki page bodhi_zazen
<cprofitt> if we copy it in to Moodle then I would imagine it would not be allowed if it were protected
<montel> cprofitt: i pinged greg-g, he is in my LoCo
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Confirm Wording of Wiki Page goal is correct (changed to remove focus on irc classrooms.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Confirm Wording of Wiki Page goal is correct (changed to remove focus on irc classrooms.
<cprofitt> You are up again doctormo
<doctormo> Aye
<doctormo> Hang on I was just caught up in something
<cprofitt> k
<doctormo> OK, one thing we need to vote on
<cprofitt> I think the goal stated on the frontpage is still not reflective of what the group decided last meeting
<doctormo> before we go on
<cprofitt> k- what?
<bodhi_zazen> which page exactly , would you post a link so we are all on the same page ?
<doctormo> Should we restrict our content, newly created and derived works to be CC-BY-SA or lower.
<doctormo> So new members know what their creations are going to have to be to get in
<cprofitt> I am not ready to vote yet doctormo
<Vantrax|Work> sorry for being late guys, hazzards of being at work
<cprofitt> I would like to get information form greg-g
<bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt
<doctormo> cprofitt: hmm, ok, what is your deciding logic?
<Vantrax|Work> the desktop course is not linkable from inside moodle due to it being in a big pdf file, as such we will need to replicate it, keeping the licencing
<cprofitt> I would like to have a better understanding before we move to vote...
<cprofitt> I think the CC-NY-SA is fine, but would like to get more from greg-g
<pleia2> me too, I'm pretty clueless about licensing
<Vantrax|Work> NY is?
<cprofitt> My initial suggestion was CC-BY-SA
<doctormo> NY?
<bodhi_zazen> on topic ? - I think the working "avoid competition" could be better :p
<cprofitt> but I am not a lawyer
<cprofitt> slip of a key Vantrax
<cprofitt> BY
<Vantrax|Work> ahh
<cprofitt> sorry...
<cprofitt> stupid querty keyboard layout
<cprofitt> qwerty actually
<doctormo> Aye ok, next issue, wording
<Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen, what would you replace it with
<cprofitt> here are the goals that were added after last meeting -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
<cprofitt> I think what we are really looking at is this -
<cprofitt> Our initial goal is to provide four programs for the new user, the sysadmin, marketing, and a stream for someone who wants to contribute to Ubuntu. These idea's have been based on new user feedback, requests to the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team, to the Classroom Team and to Physical LoCo Classrooms. Our proposed course programs can be found in the sections below.
<cprofitt> from the front page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/
<bodhi_zazen> something more along the lines of working with the Ubutnu community teams to ...
<cprofitt> this was brought up last meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda/05092009
<bodhi_zazen> I know there is a sense of "competition" and "duplication of effort" but could we try to rephrase it in a positive ?
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: collaboration is covered later in the description
<cprofitt> I think our real goal is something simple...
<bodhi_zazen> +1 on Our initial goal ...
<cprofitt> to produce courses
<cprofitt> to produce courses that make it easier for organizations and users to adopt Ubuntu as their OS
<Vantrax|Work> that is the initial goal, but not the goal of the project
<bodhi_zazen> bring collaboration to forefront and eliminate competition ?
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<Vantrax|Work> cp is right on that
<Vantrax|Work> to make it easier and to reduce the attrition rate of new users
<cprofitt> so we can either produce the courses ourselves or guide others in producing the courses
<Vantrax|Work> that is the overarching goal
<thewrath> i think producing the courses ourselves in teams would work
<cprofitt> I think it could be a mix of both
<bodhi_zazen> well , teaching to teach will help the LoCo :)
<Vantrax|Work> The long term goal is to make it easier for organisations and users to adopt Ubuntu and reduce the current attrition rate for new users through better awareness and community education
<Vantrax|Work> from by perspective
<Vantrax|Work> my
<Vantrax|Work> how the content is produced will vary based on who is contributing
<cprofitt> Yeah... I like that Vantrax
<thewrath> Vantrax +1
<Vantrax|Work> MOTU seems reasonably happy to add material, as does some of the doc team
<Vantrax|Work> any rewording needed on that as the goal statement?
<cprofitt> Vantrax, can you update the goal as written on the front page of the wiki?
<Vantrax|Work> doing it right now if there are no requests to reword it
<cprofitt> I think just remove the long term from it..
<cprofitt> no need for long term to be there
<Vantrax|Work> im going to keep some of the other statement too, give me a second
<Vantrax|Work> okies everyone re read the first two paragraphs again
<greg-g> dangit, sorry everyone (if you're still here)
<MTecknology> they're all here
<bodhi_zazen> The intention of this program is to to provide an educational context (environment) ,  supplement official training program, and colaborate with existing projects (MOTU, doc, etc) ??
<bodhi_zazen> ^^
<cprofitt> um... what happened to the mission statement Vantrax ?
<bodhi_zazen> suggestion
<cprofitt> we agreed on the mission statement last time... now it is gone...
<cprofitt> Our initial goal is to provide four programs for the new user, the sysadmin, marketing, and a stream for someone who wants to contribute to Ubuntu. These idea's have been based on new user feedback, requests to the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team, to the Classroom Team and to Physical LoCo Classrooms. Our proposed course programs can be found in the sections below.
<cprofitt> that was what I thought we were changing
<pleia2> greg-g: we're going to cycle back to licensing if you could stick around for a few?
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: what is offical training programs?
<Vantrax|Work> its still there
<Vantrax|Work> canonical training
<greg-g> pleia2: yes, definitely. I'll be here
<cprofitt> The project's goals are to build and maintain an interactive learning environment(s) to support teaching all aspects of the Ubuntu Ecosystem.
<bodhi_zazen> official Canonical Training
<cprofitt> that is still there?
<Vantrax|Work> its moved down into the second paragraph, that is a HOW statement, the first is a WHAT statement
<bodhi_zazen> better cprofitt :)
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: I have no want to support such a thing, they would be unequal in partnership with them.
<Vantrax|Work> so its moved with the rest of the HOW
<cprofitt> that was already on the page...
<bodhi_zazen> I like that better then 'avoid competition"
<bodhi_zazen> lol
<cprofitt> we need to move on... I will work on the goals...
<pleia2> cprofitt: greg-g is here, if we could swing back to licensing for a few?
<Vantrax|Work> doctormo we are not supporting their training, but we also will not be making our training into any sort of qualification
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Licensing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Licensing
<bodhi_zazen> I think this sentence needs help is all - "The intention of this program is to avoid competition with the existing official training program, and supplement existing community programs."
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: Sure, but make than damn clear, at the moment it reads like we're the slave arm of their materials.
<greg-g> dpm
<greg-g> don't let me change the topic :)
<cprofitt> lets get our questions to greg-g
<Vantrax|Work> doctormo, to the ubuntu-learning chan for a sec
<cprofitt> and we can rework the intial few paragraphs of the wiki after the meeting
 * mdeonte is montel
<cprofitt> greg-g we are concerned about linking too items that are more restrictive than CC-BY-SA
<bodhi_zazen> +1 cprofitt :)
<cprofitt> what are the ramifications or concerns in our doing that...?
<greg-g> cprofitt: more restrictive? can you give me an example?
<cprofitt> CC-BY-NC-SA
<cprofitt> or the license The official Ubuntu Handbook is using
<greg-g> can you now define "linking" please :)
<Vantrax|Work> that I would like, but commercial is not defined
<thewrath> what is the official ubuntu handbook using?
<greg-g> Vantrax|Work: that is the issue, in general, with NC, it isn't define anywher ein the license
<Vantrax|Work> yes, i read through them all
<cprofitt> BY-NC-SA
<Vantrax|Work> was quite painful
<greg-g> Vantrax|Work: :)
<cprofitt> simple URL link in my mind greg-g
<cprofitt> send them to the actual source of the content
<greg-g> cprofitt: just linking to something else does not create a licensing issue
<ScottK> CC-BY-NC-SA is not considered a Free license by Ubuntu
<greg-g> ScottK: or many people (myself included) see: freedomdefined.org
<cprofitt> ScottK, but Canonical is using that.
<Vantrax|Work> cprofitt, we will end up by replicating some of the content from the desktop training course that is CC-BY-NC-SA too, but have permission to do so
<ScottK> Right, Canonical's decisions on their commercial products aren't my measure of Freedom.
<cprofitt> Vantrax, we do not have permission to repackage it though
<cprofitt> just to use it
<doctormo> Vantrax|Work: Eh/
<greg-g> Vantrax|Work: good deal, will you then be able to re-license that content as BY-SA?
<cprofitt> I want to produce ours with no NC
<Vantrax|Work> cprofitt we can adapt it to fit into our model from what belinda said
<cprofitt> just CC-BY-SA
<ScottK> You need explicit permission to relicense then, not just use.
<cprofitt> correct ScottK
<greg-g> what ScottK said.
<Vantrax|Work> and she is aware of the licence choice, but ill confirm
<cprofitt> I think we need to visit that with Belinda again
<Vantrax|Work> she knows that in its current form it cant really be used
<cprofitt> greg-g, in writing not just irc correct?
<Vantrax|Work> I needed to catch up with her again anyway
<cprofitt> Vantrax, in its current form we could use it as we are non-commercial
<greg-g> cprofitt: well, in writing (email) would be fine, something you could preserve just in case they go back on their word and sue you :)
<cprofitt> but others using our derivative work... would be the issue
<cprofitt> ok... thanks greg-g
<greg-g> cprofitt: well, if you use their content in your work, and license the entire work under BY-SA, then no one else will have a problem unless they follow the terms of By-SA
<greg-g> s/unless they/unless they don't/
<cprofitt> right... but we have to get permission to relicense correct?
<greg-g> correct
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Election of Board/Council - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<MootBot> New Topic:  Election of Board/Council - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Agenda
<cprofitt> ok... last meeting we decided on five seats on the board... and no 'uber' leader position at this time
<cprofitt> we have five nominees - are there any last minute nominations?
<Vantrax|Work> ill talk to them about that this week
<pleia2> Vantrax|Work: can you Cc: the mailing list?
<bodhi_zazen> no uber leader ?
<cprofitt> yes, that was decided on last meeting bodhi_zazen
<pleia2> bodhi_zazen: no, we felt the interests of the project are too diverse for a primary leader at this time
<cprofitt> last call for nominations
<Vantrax|Work> pleia2, yes
<Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen, the plan was to elect one from the board later
<cprofitt> I will ask for a adoption of the board as nominated... if we do not get 50% approval we can do individual votes
<cprofitt> [VOTE] Accept the board as the five currently nominated members
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Accept the board as the five currently nominated members.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<bodhi_zazen> Ah, :)
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<doctormo> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from doctormo. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<mdeonte> can i vote?
 * bodhi_zazen does not fee he can vote for himself :)
<doctormo> bodhi_zazen: you have to do +0
<cprofitt> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<Vantrax|Work> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<MootBot> Abstention received from Vantrax|Work. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bodhi_zazen> +1 to the others though
<mdeonte> can i vote
<Vantrax|Work> if you with mdeonte
<Vantrax|Work> wish
<bodhi_zazen> I think yes mdeonte
<mdeonte> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from mdeonte. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<thewrath> +1
<mdeonte> shweet
<MootBot> +1 received from thewrath. 5 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
<cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
<cprofitt> ok... so the board is adopted as is
<cprofitt> [AGREED] Board is Elizabeth Krumbach, BodhiZazen, Charles Profitt, MartinOwens, Matthew Lye
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Board is Elizabeth Krumbach, BodhiZazen, Charles Profitt, MartinOwens, Matthew Lye
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Project Goals
<MootBot> New Topic:  Project Goals
<cprofitt> I think we hashed that out pretty well... but I want to point people to the page again --
<cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/goals
<cprofitt> anything else to add Vantrax ?
<Vantrax|Work> These are more in the way of project milestones
<Vantrax|Work> which in themselves are goals I guess
<bodhi_zazen> \0/
<cprofitt> so perhaps we should reword it...
<cprofitt> to milestones...
<pleia2> hm, I think adding in "contacting existing programs" or somesuch would be good
<thewrath> agreed cprofitt
<Vantrax|Work> you called it milestones:P
<bodhi_zazen> add - set up server :p
<Vantrax|Work> good one pleia2
<pleia2> we've already done some of it, but I think we need to cycle back through to make sure our communication is solid
<bodhi_zazen> +1 pleia2
<cprofitt> bodhi_zazen, that page is for everyone involved to add their 'goals' or 'milestones'
<bodhi_zazen> and cycle and cycle ...
<cprofitt> then we have to 'assign' some
<pleia2> shall I add?
<cprofitt> yes... please add what you want there...
<Vantrax|Work> im adding atm for suggestions made
<cprofitt> then we can adopt them at a future meeting
<pleia2> k
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Rationale
<MootBot> New Topic:  Rationale
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Rationale
<pleia2> everyone has pretty much said what I wanted to say for the rationale
<cprofitt> That is another page in which we want people to add their ideas of Rationale for the project
<cprofitt> in preparation for the CC meeting June 2nd
<cprofitt> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Specification
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/Specification
<cprofitt> that will contribute to making the specification
<Vantrax|Work> Im going to be doing a project spec this week based on all of this
<cprofitt> I will be eager to look at your draft Vantrax
<cprofitt> then we can add it to the agenda for the next meeting
<bodhi_zazen> me too :)
<bodhi_zazen> poke me on IRC when ready :)
<Vantrax|Work> I find people do better when they have something to tear appart:P
<Vantrax|Work> so ill supply the poorly written bit to start with
<cprofitt> Alright...
<cprofitt> do not say that Vantrax your drafts are quite good...
<cprofitt> and serve as a good starting point... it is always easier to nit than to create from scratch
<Vantrax|Work> yeah, especially in a forum like this
<cprofitt> [TOPIC] Meeting Time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Time
<cprofitt> how was this meeting time for everyone...?
<cprofitt> informal +/- would work
<cprofitt> +
<bodhi_zazen> +++
<pleia2> +
<Vantrax|Work> its ok for me, but I am at work and might be late or have to duck away
<bodhi_zazen> informal +
<st33med> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-+
<Vantrax|Work> so how about / for me:P
<pleia2> hehe
<cprofitt> I understand that Vantrax - it was the only time everyone on the doodle poll selected
<cprofitt> http://www.doodle.com/e4qemk8nuf2q5iye
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.doodle.com/e4qemk8nuf2q5iye
<doctormo> Oh I'm so dizzy, sorry guys if I've been a bit out of it. Damncold
<Vantrax|Work> I know, thats why i agreed and put it as a possibility
<cprofitt> no problem doctormo
<st33med> Unfortunately, I had dinner out at Longhorns with my family, and I was unaware of the meeting time...
<cprofitt> Thanks for attending everyone.
<Vantrax|Work> thats ok st33med keep an eye on the wiki page
<doctormo> +1 meeting time
<cprofitt> I appreciate the effort everyone is putting in...
<cprofitt> Vantrax, you have done a great job of putting up fleshy ideas for us to chew on...
 * st33med is wheezing from the two lines he put it
<MontelEdwards> +
<Vantrax|Work> also next meeting we will be preparing the annoucement to be delivered after CC meeting
<st33med> *in
<cprofitt> I think we will focus on the CC meeting and set a date after the results of that meeting
<cprofitt> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:54.
<bodhi_zazen> oops - edited the goals page , lol
<Vantrax|Work> at this rate it will likely take 2 meetings to get it sorted anyway:{
<cprofitt> please take further discussion back to #ubuntu-learning
<doctormo> time to sleep
<gnomefreak> i guess meeting was postponed
<sbc> gnomefreak: Guess so. Someone should update the fridge calendar to reflect the change.
<gnomefreak> agreed, this is the first one i was able to make in over 5 months :(
<mib_yn3hjajf> Hello.  Is this the kernel team meeting?
<Arc> time for the loco council meeting?
<cprofitt> Arc, I thought so based on the wiki...
<cprofitt> 19-May-2009, 19:00 UTC
<Arc> its 7:05pm UTC on May 19th
<Arc> infocop411 seems to be here too
<Arc> popey: ping?
<Arc> all the other meetings today on the schedule seem to not have happened either
<infocop411> I moved my item back, just got in the door, flight arrived late
<Arc> infocop411: it appears that none of the council members are attending this meeting anyway
<infocop411> plus our team has gotten some ground work in that may make it worth waiting
 * Arc is here from New Hampshire LoCo, the only item on the agenda :-/
<pleia2> UDS always messes up schedules a bit
<Arc> UDS?
<pleia2> ubuntu developers summit
<infocop411> well in a way that's good for me, I'm tired from the flight & earlier than usual wake-up
<Arc> ok so, since this meeting doesn't appear to be happening, should we send a mail to a mailing list instead?
<pleia2> or just wait until the next meeting
<pleia2> approval has to happen at a meeting anyway
<infocop411> yea, someone will see it before the next meeting for sure
<infocop411> & they can schedule it again
<JanC> boredandblogging: ping?
<juliux> i am here
<boredandblogging> sorry I"m late
<JanC> we're all late  ;)
<juliux> but we are three;)
<boredandblogging> awesome
<juliux> looks like we have only one topic today
<boredandblogging> Arc: ping
<Arc> pong
<boredandblogging> ok, lets do New Hampshire
<Arc> im still raising our team leader who just went MIA, is she needed?
<JanC> Arc: that's nikkiana ?
<Arc> yes
<JanC> I pinged her in #ubuntu-women, let's see if she's around
<juliux> ok
<Arc> i just called her, I think she may be on the phone with a client since it seemed to go straight to voicemail
<Arc> she also has rythmbox paused according to her xmpp status
<juliux> Arc: can you write something about your team?
<Arc> beyond what's on the wiki?
<juliux> a short introduction;)
<Arc> well NH isn't a very densly populated state, almost all the populus is in one city (Manchester) where the loco is primarily centered around
<Arc> individually a lot of us carry Ubuntu CDs around, my count is we've distributed about 70 jaunty cds so far
<Arc> we've built good relations with our regional LUG, there's been some fear that we're going to overshadow them since our energy level is several times theirs
<Arc> since most of us live near each other, we have in-person meetings on a semi monthly basis
<Arc> when a meeting doesn't work out due to scheduling issues we touch base with each other frequently enough to take care of stuff like getting CDs burned/printed
<Arc> because of our size, we're focusing on SFD 2009 and working on smaller projects until then such as working with the local "linux-friendly" ISP and working on getting a community themed remix together
<JanC> do you have any contact with schools & universities etc.?
<Arc> we've talked to a few librarians about remix resources
<Arc> honestly the area that Ubuntu seems to really be taking root here is home users, we haven't seen a lot of interest from schools or universities
<juliux> are the some notes from the meetings?
<Arc> that may change as we work on the cloud computing initiative in manchester
<Arc> we haven't been very good at writing up minutes since there hasn't been any contentious issues brought up in a few months
<Arc> our budget has been nikki contributing $40 worth of CDRs and printer ink or me at the local print shop
<juliux> Arc: what yout the releasparties? any more informations online? some pictures?
<Arc> let me dig up nikki's flickr account, she's the one that takes photos
<Arc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikkiana/sets/72157606308820965/
<Arc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nikkiana/sets/72157607400431972/
<Arc> sorry she has a lot to dig through
<Arc> she could find them easier
<JanC> if I understand wikipedia correctly then 1/6th of the people in NH live in the metropolitan area around Manchester, do you have much contact with the other 5/6th of the population?  ã
<Arc> if you look at the launchpad you'll see the population distribution
<Arc> mostly the I93 corridor through Concord
<Arc> but I think its much more than 1/6th, all depending on what you consider to be Manchester area.  if you count a 30 mile radius, that likely is more than 2/3rds the state population
<Arc> here something is "local" if you can get to it in an hour's drive.  the Manchester LUG chapter meets in Nashua for example, which is a half hour's drive
<juliux> w 25
<Arc> overall I think because of the massive outreach matt, broderick and I have been doing (including installing on people's systems ourselves) a vast majority of the Ubuntu users in the state are focused in the Manchester-Concord area
<Arc> thanks to a local hispanic preacher, there's an entire neighborhood in manchester using pretty much just Ubuntu as I understand it
<boredandblogging> Arc: think that kind of information would be great on the application
<boredandblogging> I'd prefer to see more of a roadmap
<Arc> well it's hard to tell what you're looking for exactly
<Arc> what would you like to see on the roadmap?
<boredandblogging> for example, the NH remix a bit more
<boredandblogging> what is the purpose behind it?
<boredandblogging> when do you expect it to come out?
<boredandblogging> how are you getting involved with it?
<Arc> ah.  the purpose is to really get our foot in the door with the local libraries and other community resources
<boredandblogging> Arc: right, can you just put that on the application? and go into more detail with the other items?
<boredandblogging> think we are having a hard time imagining all the work you guys have done
<boredandblogging> since the application isn't detailed
<JanC> Arc: and also an agenda/roadmap for the future
<Arc> what specific items do you want detailed?
<Arc> to be honest I'd like to focus my attention a bit on what's needed since there's so much work to be done in other areas of the LoCo, if I spent the time to detail everything, track down photos, etc it'd take 30, 40 hours of work that'd be better spent on other things
<Arc> if you want to see photos of parties, I can dig those up.  if you want to see photos and details of us working with the local community, we can take those
<Arc> but I really don't want to see the application process become a major task item of it's own
<JanC> Arc: if we have to dig everything up it takes us 20 hours too  ;)
<Arc> do you really need to see everything or what key things are you looking for?
<Arc> here's an example, we're going to actually be talking to two local schools in the next month with a "sales pitch" for joining the local community network for using the local cloud with Ubuntu - is that interesting to you?
<Arc> the local network is a major project we're involved in right now, more than half the network volunteers are loco members
<Arc> or do you want us to put together a google map of the Ubuntu users we've worked with in the state
<JanC> I think what we like to seeis a list of what you have done with a little bit of explanation (link to photos are nice if available) + list of what you plan to do (including links to mails on the list or wiki pages or whatever you use to plan such things)
<Arc> that would include documenting things on the wiki to begin with, which we haven't done very much of lately
<Arc> but are there any items in either the group of what we've done or what we're planning to do that you want documented well, or am I correct in understanding that it really doesn't matter what we do as long as we're documenting doing something?
<JanC> I'd say we like to see different things documented, e.g. it's not important that *all* internal meetings are documented, but try to show off all the type of things you're doing and plan to do
<Arc> I'm asking because I thought we did that with the current application
<boredandblogging> Arc: if you don't document on the wiki, where do you document?
<Arc> boredandblogging: we don't generally document, we discuss and do
<boredandblogging> ok
<Arc> we spend enough time around each other..
<Arc> I'm also a bit worried that asking for recognition is a waste of time, since other much larger LoCos have been denied repeatedly with activity levels we won't reach
<JanC> Arc: in most cases that was either because of lack of documentation or because they had been inactive for almost a year until 5 months before applying or things like that
<JanC> are you planning to have a booth at the NC-PC Computing trade show in Nashua again?
<Arc> likely not, it was a bust as I understand it
<JanC> a "bust" in what way?
<JanC> and the other places you did similar things?
<Arc> a lot of the "IT industry" in NH is heavily focused around Microsoft
<JanC> that's true almost everywhere  ;)
<Arc> I was one of the founders of IFSA (Ithaca Free Software Assoc) in NY, we had a very different experience with trade conferences
<Arc> if we had infinite volunteer time we'd be everywhere :-)  but there's low hanging fruit with home users and, perhaps with Eucalyptus and Kharmic coming out, the local schools
<JanC> maybe you can also recruit new volunteers with the preacher's (Ubuntu) "converts"?
<boredandblogging> seems like we lost quorum
<Arc> we're recruiting everywhere, the hispanic community is just one example
<Arc> just this Sunday, talking to people at a local church, we met two Ubuntu users we previously had no idea about.  with our size, we're just throwing snowballs, and are often unaware of how large they grow until we see them rolling past
<boredandblogging> Arc: I would like to ask NH to come back next month
<boredandblogging> we don't have a quorum for a vote
<JanC> anymore
<Arc> boredandblogging: absolutely.  I didn't expect to get approved this month anyway
<Arc> please just give some direction of what you're looking for us to document for next month
<Arc> should I ask nikki to take more photos? should I focus on meeting minutes? do you want PDFs of our printed material?
<Arc> do you want me to upload the template for the CD distribution "posters"?
<JanC> just flesh it out a bit, and ask everybody in the team to help with describing/documenting the events they were/are involved with
<JanC> it will also help the team in the future, or to show prospective members what you did already
<JanC> and things like posters etc. would be nice of course (if they have a free license other LoCos might like to use them too)
<Arc> they're freely licensed, it's just a bit of work to generalize them as templates
<Arc> the posters im talking about are 1/4" thick paperboard boxes that hold 3-4 CDs and a small stack of business cards, designed to pin onto bulletin boards
<Arc> ok so I guess a last question, are you more interested in well detailed examples of things we've done or a more complete bullet list
<Arc> I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're less "event" based as "activity" based right now, the only real event we're planning right now is SFD09
<Arc> but there's a lot of activities, that are not as easy to document
<JanC> maybe you can give a couple of examples of every type of such activity?
<Arc> sounds good
<JanC> Arc: you can also always ping us outside the meeting
<JanC> if you have questions or whatever
<Arc> how about finer grained advice over the next month so we don't end up with a monthly "is this enough? - nope" cycle :-)
<JanC> okay
<Arc> ok thanks for your feedback so far :-)
<juliux> Arc: you can also ask in #ubuntu-locoteams for some help
<JanC> and other teams who seek approval can also ask beforehand there  ;)
<bodhi_zazen> meeting time ?
<paultag> Yup bodhi_zazen
<jamesrfla> yeah it is time
<Ash_R> yes bodhi_zazen
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-20
<MontelEdwards> yeap
<MontelEdwards> 1 min
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is bodhi_zazen.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bodhi_zazen> :)
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] elections
<MootBot> New Topic:  elections
<bodhi_zazen> last meeting we discussed elections of the FG leads
<bodhi_zazen> is this something the team is interested in ?
<paultag> +1
<bodhi_zazen> Or shall we allow bodhi_zazen to appoint ?
<Ash_R> +1
<jamesrfla> +1
<lukjad007> I prefer appointments
<thewrath> appointments
<bodhi_zazen> Should we vote ?
<Rocket2DMn> Is there anybody out there who wants to be a lead who currently isn't?  If not, then it's a moot point
<MontelEdwards> am i allowed to speak/agree/dissagree?
<bodhi_zazen> yes MontelEdwards
<MontelEdwards> shweet
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Elections ? +1 == elections -1 = appointment by bz
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Elections ? +1 == elections -1 = appointment by bz.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from bodhi_zazen. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<Rocket2DMn> +0
<Snova> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Snova. 0 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -1
<MootBot> Abstention received from Rocket2DMn. 0 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -1
<paultag> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 2 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -2
<thewrath> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from thewrath. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<Ash_R> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from Ash_R. 0 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
<faolan> +1
<jamesrfla> -1
<MootBot> +1 received from faolan. 1 for, 4 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> -1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 5 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -4
<PartyBoi2> +0
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 5 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
<MootBot> Abstention received from PartyBoi2. 2 for, 5 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3
<lukjad007> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from lukjad007. 2 for, 6 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -4
<ds305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ds305. 2 for, 6 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -4
<MontelEdwards> +1
<swoody> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from swoody. 2 for, 7 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -5
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 3 for, 7 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now -4
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone else ?
<sdennie> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from sdennie. 3 for, 7 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -4
<PartyBoi2> I thought we were going to be using votebot still for voting?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 7 against. 5 abstained. Total: -4
<bodhi_zazen> Votebot == too slow >:)
<PartyBoi2> ok
<bodhi_zazen> we voted at last meeting to use Mootbot
<bodhi_zazen> OK, well that makes this meeting much shorter then :)
<lukjad007> Haha
<Ash_R> :)
<bodhi_zazen> Lets run the teams :)
<Ash_R> sounds good
<bodhi_zazen> learning / education ?
<bodhi_zazen> Vantrax: poke :)
<st33med> lrn2work
<Rocket2DMn> Vantrax|Work, good timing - anythin gto say on education fg?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/
<Vantrax|Work> busy busy busy
<bodhi_zazen> We are going to present out project to the CC on June 2nd
<Vantrax|Work> trip to community council soon, then a big announcment
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, nice little packaged management tutorial :D
<bodhi_zazen> so if you have the time to support the idea, awesome
<Rocket2DMn> Cool, good luck!
<st33med> Though, you should update a little more often
<st33med> >.>
<Vantrax|Work> work checking the link there, at the bottom is a series of links on programs for you all to give your input
<bodhi_zazen> link st33med ?
<jamesrfla> nice wiki for the education fg
<bodhi_zazen> I am working on the server
<bodhi_zazen> trying to decide
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, eh? I was talking about your work in your education class
<bodhi_zazen> apache vs lighttpd ?
<faolan> sounds like an interesting project
<bodhi_zazen> mysql vs postrad ?
<Vantrax|Work> jamesrfla, that wiki isnt for the edu fg, the project is outside the BT, but the education FG is one of the primary contributors
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: will you be hosting it at your house?
<bodhi_zazen> Oh, thanks st33med :)
<bodhi_zazen> no james
<Vantrax|Work> its colocated on an isp line
<st33med> You said you updated every three months on your server >.>
<Rocket2DMn> bodhi_zazen, i bet pleia2 could have some good input for you on that
<bodhi_zazen> we have a new domain as well
<bodhi_zazen> ufbt.net
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: you could if you had Oc.1
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<MontelEdwards> o/
<bodhi_zazen> IRC FG ?
<paultag> jamesrfla, this is not talk for the meeting :) bring it to -uf-begin
<paultag> bodhi_zazen, Hola
<paultag> So, I am talking over for Joeb on the IRC front
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]IRC FG
<MootBot> New Topic: IRC FG
<Vantrax|Work> team page if anyone is interested https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning
<paultag> I am looking to start expanding the IRC team a bit, working to include more people and help integrate more with the wider ubuntu community
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: update wiki pages please :)
<paultag> We will be looking for interested members, and yes bodhi_zazen, I'll get to updating :)
<paultag> any questions?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Wiki FG
<MootBot> New Topic:  Wiki FG
<Rocket2DMn> yes hi
<Rocket2DMn> Just to let you all know, the 2009 Summer of Documentation has started!
<Rocket2DMn> If you're interested in helping, please talk to me after the meeting.  All contributions are welcome.
<Rocket2DMn> that is all :)
<MontelEdwards> oh bodhi_zazen: could we talk a little about the new team domain?
<MontelEdwards> i mean, later
<bodhi_zazen> yes MontelEdwards
<MontelEdwards> later on in the meeting**
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] Any other FG ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any other FG ?
<Ash_R> yes.  i have a query
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to limit the discussion to major FG / updates ;)
<st33med> What about the Stalker FG >.>
<bodhi_zazen> Forums are awwesome, thanks everyone :)
<bodhi_zazen> go Ash_R
<sdennie> The Stalker FG, it if existed, has no updates.
<st33med> riiiiight
<st33med> :)
<bodhi_zazen> st33med: I can neither confirm or deny the presence of Stalkers
<Ash_R> what happened to the discussion about the euro/asian fg?  i have not heard anything for a while
<st33med> </conspiracy>
<bodhi_zazen> I am in favor Ash_R
<bodhi_zazen> but I do not know if it came together
<bodhi_zazen> the point is to have meetings / discussions at alternate times
<st33med> I saw lots of emails about it in my inbox :)
<Ash_R> i would like to help set it up,  if possible
<bodhi_zazen> I do not know if there is enough interest
<bodhi_zazen> coordinate with forest :)
<lukjad007> What would happen if one FG came to one decision, but the other came to a radically differing one?
<bodhi_zazen> I would like to see it, primarily as a means of communication and involving regions outside of the US
<Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen is the king, he decides
<lukjad007> Just wondering.
<Joeb454> lukjad007: having a euro/asian fg would require somebody who attends the normal meetings
<Joeb454> to attend the other meetings
<bodhi_zazen> yes, forest was going to coordinate
<lukjad007> Joeb454 Well, I guess that makes sense
<bodhi_zazen> the point would be to allow the FG lead to vote by proxy as well ;)
<Ash_R> i intend to try and go to both.
<lukjad007> Joeb454 The next meeting is Friday, right?
<bodhi_zazen> any other FG ?
<Joeb454> lukjad007: for what? =/
<lukjad007> Forum council
 * lukjad007 is getting mixed up with all the acronyms
<bodhi_zazen> swoody: poke
 * thewrath same here
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] NUN
<st33med> Alphabet soup, anyone?
<MootBot> New Topic:  NUN
<swoody> heya bodhi_zazen :)
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu#New%20User%20Network
<Vantrax|Work> NUN = dead
<st33med> bodhi_zazen, shun!
<bodhi_zazen> The NUN have disbanded and are all but extinct
<bodhi_zazen> +1 for replacing :)
<bodhi_zazen> w/ UFBT
<st33med> Delete@!
<Rocket2DMn> Do we have authority to replace that team?  Who founded and coordinated it?
<swoody> bodhi_zazen:  +1
<Vantrax|Work> UFBT replace NUN
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] bodhi_zazen to appoint FG leads
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bodhi_zazen to appoint FG leads
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] Replace NUN with UFBT ?
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Replace NUN with UFBT ?.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<swoody> I had emailed both people listed as 'moderators' for the team, but  no response from either one of them
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<st33med> +
<Vantrax|Work> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax|Work. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<st33med> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from st33med. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<swoody> +1
<bodhi_zazen> I am not sure we need to ask permission, it is a wiki, just edit I would think
<duanedesign> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<Ash_R> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<lukjad007> +1
<Joeb454> 0
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjad007. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Vantrax|Work> Verify that we can first, maybe at the same CC meeting?
<Joeb454> er
<Joeb454> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Joeb454. 8 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
<lukjad007> nun=none, right?
<ds305> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from ds305. 8 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 8
<lukjad007> :P
<bodhi_zazen> NUN = New User Network
<lukjad007> >.<
<st33med> What was it?
<Joeb454> I don't know much about what NUN or how we intend to replace it, but I like the sound of it
<bodhi_zazen> We can ask at June 2nd meeting ;)
<nathangrubb> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nathangrubb. 8 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 8
<Vantrax|Work> exactly what is says
<Rocket2DMn> I don
<lukjad007> I never heard of it, so I don't like it
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 8
<Rocket2DMn> dont know anything aobut it
<Vantrax|Work> it lasted for a month or two
<Ash_R> it seems to mirror beginners team purpose
<st33med> Competition?
<Vantrax|Work> great idea, burned bright, and burned out fast
<st33med> Was it by Grant A? XD
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] Replace NUN => UFBT -> ask at June 2nd meeting (we should add that to the CC agenda)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Replace NUN => UFBT -> ask at June 2nd meeting (we should add that to the CC agenda)
<bodhi_zazen> swoody: ^^
<bodhi_zazen> Partyboi ?
<bodhi_zazen> no party here I see >:)
<lukjad007> Ha
<MontelEdwards> parti left
<st33med> PARTY?
<st33med> WHERE?
<swoody> bodhi_zazen:  you want me to bring it up on the 2nd?
<MontelEdwards> lol st33med
<lukjad007> st33med Two doors to the left
<bodhi_zazen> put it on the agenda if you would ?
<swoody> sure thing :)
 * st33med enters the room to find several whores on the bed
<bodhi_zazen> you can put it under my name :)
<st33med> ...
<bodhi_zazen> I will bring it up
<MontelEdwards> lmao st33med haha
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] UFBT agenda to UFBT mailing list ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  UFBT agenda to UFBT mailing list ?
<swoody> bodhi_zazen:  ok, will do :)
<bodhi_zazen> I would +1 that if someone wants to do it
<lukjad007> 0
<bodhi_zazen> personally , IMO, that is what we use a wiki page for
 * lukjad007 rides the fence
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: what would you have to do?
<Rocket2DMn> I think it should be up to whoever adds an item to the agenda - if they feel it should go to the list, then they can start the thread
<bodhi_zazen> and that is why one can subscribe to wiki pages >:)
<bodhi_zazen> generate an email based on wiki page
<jamesrfla> doesn't seem to hard
<Vantrax|Work> it would be a nice idea to sent it out the day before
<jamesrfla> So send a e-mail with the agenda on it. Would a like to the wiki meeting page work?
<duanedesign> thats sn idea
<bodhi_zazen> As I said, I do not mind an email, but someone else will need to volunteer to generate the email :)
<Ash_R> i like the idea
<bodhi_zazen> No bods ?
<Vantrax|Work> i vote wiki FG to do it:P
<bodhi_zazen> Bods poke :)
<MontelEdwards> sorry lost power for a second
<Rocket2DMn> Vantrax|Work, i decline
<Rocket2DMn> I'm not doing other people's work for them
<duanedesign> have stalking FG do it
<lukjad007> duanedesign +1
<Ash_R> duanedesign: +1
<lukjad007> Carried
<lukjad007> >:)
<bodhi_zazen> [Action] Email UFBT agenda to UFBT mailing list the day before if we have a volunteer to do it, otherwise subscribe to meeting page please :)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Email UFBT agenda to UFBT mailing list the day before if we have a volunteer to do it, otherwise subscribe to meeting page please :)
<bodhi_zazen> And I think that is it :)
<bodhi_zazen> any other agenda items ?
<MontelEdwards> domain....
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] NEW MEMBERS
<MootBot> New Topic:  NEW MEMBERS
<lukjad007> My favourate part
<bodhi_zazen> TuxPurple has been nominated for membership :)
<TuxPurple> :)
<Ash_R> hooray :)
<Joeb454> -9000
<lukjad007> TuxPurple !
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: I might be able to do the volunteer job. I just need something to remind my self that I need to do but all I need is a note
<Joeb454> j/k
<bodhi_zazen> He needs no introduction, he is a penguin, he's purple ....
<lukjad007> +2
<Vantrax|Work> +++
<Rocket2DMn> thats almost as good as pink!
<Ash_R> +10
<MontelEdwards> ha
<lukjad007> +30
<bodhi_zazen> anyone have any questions b4 we vote ?
<Rocket2DMn> link to wiki page?
<TuxPurple> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TuxPurple
<Ash_R> can we have tazmanian devils in the team ;)
<Rocket2DMn> thanks
<Vantrax|Work> who is his master?
<bodhi_zazen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TuxPurple
<Ash_R> forest
<lukjad007> TuxPurple do you promise to uphold the laws and regulations govern...
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TuxPurple
<MootBot> LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TuxPurple
<TuxPurple> Vantrax|Work, forestpixie
<bodhi_zazen> master = forest, who is not here :(
<sdennie> Ash_R: For the 2.6.29 kernel, the official icon was actually changed from a penguin to a tazmanian devil.
<st33med> ...
<Vantrax|Work> if pixie thinks he's ready thats enough for me
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] TuxPurple for membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  TuxPurple for membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jamesrfla> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jamesrfla. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<swoody> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from swoody. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<sdennie> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from sdennie. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Ash_R> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Ash_R. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<lukjad007> +2
<Rocket2DMn> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Rocket2DMn. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<Joeb454> +1
<lukjad007> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Joeb454. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from lukjad007. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
<MootBot> +1 received from bodhi_zazen. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
<MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 9 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 9
<duanedesign> +1
<st33med> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from duanedesign. 10 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 10
<Vantrax|Work> note... it was a tazmanian devil pretending to be a penguin
<lukjad007> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from st33med. 11 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 11
<Vantrax|Work> +1
<lukjad007> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Vantrax|Work. 12 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 12
<lukjad007> +1
<Joeb454> lukjad007....
<lukjad007> Yes?
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 12 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 12
<Ash_R> congratulations TuxPurple!
<lukjad007> I just wanted to make sure he got a fair vote...
<lukjad007> Congrats tuxlinux
<bodhi_zazen> [ACTION] Please welcome the Tux Purple :)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Please welcome the Tux Purple :)
<TuxPurple> thanks everyone :)
<lukjad007> Congrats TuxPurple
<Rocket2DMn> cool, congrats!
<thewrath> hey TuxPurple
<thewrath> welcome
<TuxPurple> thank you :D
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] ufbt.net
<MootBot> New Topic:  ufbt.net
<bodhi_zazen> yes MontelEdwards ?
<bodhi_zazen> I registered a domain
<Ash_R> how is ufbt going to be different from the wiki?  what is its purpose?
<bodhi_zazen> will use it temp to host teh moodle project
<bodhi_zazen> ;)
<MontelEdwards> Yes, i was thinking that we should brainstorm things for a homepage or either forwarding it to wiki, whatever team decides.
<Ash_R> ah,  i understand
<bodhi_zazen> +1 team ?
<Vantrax|Work> forward to wiki until we have a use for it id think
<Ash_R> forward to wiki
<bodhi_zazen> I was going to park a home page soon, theme to match learning site ?
<MontelEdwards> I think that a homepage would be nice, a list of members. Kinda a intro to the team
<bodhi_zazen> no, no, forward to UCLP
<Rocket2DMn> i thought we were going to use learn.ubuntu.com
<Vantrax|Work> bodhi_zazen, in that case sounds good
<bodhi_zazen> Any other topics ?
<Vantrax|Work> Rocket2DMn, we have to have something first:P
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, but why did we register ufbt.net?
<bodhi_zazen> we list team members on LP and I really do not want to duplicate work
<bodhi_zazen> If team members want a personal home page or something, I would host that
<duanedesign> we could post Boudoir Photos of ourselves
<jamesrfla> bodhi_zazen: I will take the agenda e-mailing job.
<swoody> +1 duanedesign :)
<bodhi_zazen> If team members want to practice / learn servers, I am offering VPS or cheap
<Ash_R> this sounds an awfully lot like our wiki's
 * MontelEdwards Rocket2DMn: had a free promo code for godaddy which he gave to bodhi_zazen 
<thewrath> bodhi_zazen: how cheap?
<bodhi_zazen> 10 / month for 256 RAM + I think 5 Gb HD space
<duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: I have been enjoying my VPSe a lot
<bodhi_zazen> + 10 for initial set up
<bodhi_zazen> and I will support you as time allows
<Vantrax|Work> bandwidth limits?
<bodhi_zazen> When you "grow up" , fivebean is probably a better deal
<duanedesign> like if your dumb enough to shut off your ssh server:)
<bodhi_zazen> total of 500 Gb / month
<Rocket2DMn> fivebean :) all hail u-g!
<bodhi_zazen> divided , so I am asking team not to abuse it
<MontelEdwards> bodhi_zazen: pay via paypal?
<bodhi_zazen> yes, I can send a requst for payment via paypal
<bodhi_zazen> contact me if you are interested
<bodhi_zazen> 256 Mb is a ton with VPS ;)
<Vantrax|Work> thats enough to run just about anything
<MontelEdwards> k
<thewrath> bodhi_zazen:  would we be able to do stuff with apache,. etc?
<lukjad007> That's it for the meeting?
<jamesrfla> you don't need much just as long as it isn't using a GUI
<bodhi_zazen> Oh, and you are responsible for registering a domain, noip or otherwise
<bodhi_zazen> thewrath: yes
<lukjad007> Night all
<bodhi_zazen> paultag: poke
<Ash_R> lukjad007: i think so
<bodhi_zazen> link to your VPS please :
<lukjad007> Night Ash_R
<MontelEdwards> night lukjad007
 * lukjad007 waves at the world
<lukjad007> Night MontelEdwards
<bodhi_zazen> any other team issues ?
<thewrath>  bodhi_zazen could you post on the wiki a complete page with the specs
<thewrath> including, hd space, bandwidth, etc
<lukjad007> kthnxbai
<bodhi_zazen> 256 RAM
<bodhi_zazen> 5 Gb HD
<duanedesign> o/
<bodhi_zazen> and as I said, total 500 Gb bandwidth, so should be plenty
<MontelEdwards> hah i love lukjad's quit message
<bodhi_zazen> the 500 Gb is shared between all VPS and the moodle site
<Ash_R> bodhi_zazen:  is the meeting over?
<bodhi_zazen> I think so ...
<duanedesign> bodhi_zazen: on the team reporting page....
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:44.
<bodhi_zazen> yes duanedesign ?
<Ash_R> thanks bodhi_zazen.  now i can go to bed :)
<bodhi_zazen> who is doing team reporting by the way ?
<duanedesign> we list things we are working on?
<bodhi_zazen> np
<duanedesign> the team is working on?
<bodhi_zazen> discussion -> #ubuntuforums-beginners
 * MontelEdwards is going to team channel, bye
<nixternal> 5 minutes until the Americas Regional Membership Board meeting kicks off... hggdh hypa7ia kdub Hellow - prepare to sweat a little :)
<hggdh> heh
 * Hellow already is XD
<nixternal> we are missing kiko, wolter, jonreagan, brywilharris, and zehrique - if anyone knows these people, ping them and tell them to get here, otherwise they will get bumped yet again
 * hypa7ia does some last minute wiki-polishing
<nixternal> that means I have to refresh :)
<hypa7ia> hehe, possibly
 * Hellow also does some last minute wiki polishing
<hggdh> kiko is not online (usually at #lp)
<hggdh> (to my knowledge, I mean)
<hypa7ia> i have to also chair the hacklabTO meeting, so if i'm a little distracted that's why :/
<hypa7ia> never mind, got it delayed by a few minutes :)
<pleia2> alright, meeting time :)
<Joeb454> yay
<Vantrax|Work> yay
<Joeb454> stop copying me :(
<Vantrax|Work> bah, you used your ESP to copy me
<Vantrax|Work> you just type faster
<pleia2> ok, just waiting for one more board member to arrive and we'll get going
<pleia2> ok, we have enough, let's get rolling
<nixternal> #startmeeting
<pleia2> hggdh: you're up
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:07. The chair is nixternal.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<hggdh> my name is Carl de-Avillez, and I live in the US. I am usually active on #ubuntu-bugs, and also help on coreutils and Evolution, with the eventual patch or package update.
<hggdh> s/Carl/&os/ # sorry
<nixternal> [TOPIC]C de-Avillez for Ubuntu Member
<MootBot> New Topic: C de-Avillez for Ubuntu Member
<nixternal> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hggdh
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hggdh
<nixternal> [LINK] https://edge.launchpad.net/~hggdh2
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~hggdh2
<nixternal> hggdh: rock and roll!!!
<nixternal> go for it
<hggdh> I have been active with Ubuntu since end of 2006
<hggdh> moving in from SuSE (and Slackware, Debian, RH, pure, etc)
<Vantrax|Work> ahh so you host the bug announce bot, very handy
<nixternal> Burroughs B6k FTW!
 * nixternal used to work for Sperry/Unisys
<hggdh> I loved the system...
<nixternal> really nice testimonials you have there hggdh
<hggdh> thank you
<nixternal> hggdh: have you thought about going for Ubuntu Universe Contributor since you are into packaging?
<Hobbsee> yay, hggdh
<Hobbsee> !
<nixternal> that is the first step in contributing and becoming a MOTU
<nixternal> oh no, you have Hobbsee supporting you, -1!
<hggdh> I am considering it, but I feel I need a bit mroe of experience
<Hobbsee> haha :P
<hggdh> hi Hobbsee (and thanks!)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: hggdh does some great work with bugs.  Don't take him away from that, please!  :)
<Hobbsee> hggdh: heya!
<pleia2> hggdh: your lp profile says you're part of the dallas loco team, are you involved? I know the TX teams are having a bit of trouble with being very regularly active
<hggdh> I like working with bugs, this is what I do for a living (problem recognition/resolution)
<hggdh> pleia2, the Dallas Loco is almost stopped right now. I am still present there, but we need to be kicked hard
<pleia2> hggdh: any plans to be one of the folks doing the kicking? :)
<hggdh> having time, yes... been thinking about it lately
<nixternal> don't kick with your cowboy boots on though, those suckers hurt
<hggdh> but currently I travel a lot
<pleia2> ah, that makes things tricky
<fuelthefire99_2> hey everyone
<hggdh> but I would rather do it one at a time... and there so many things to do/help on...
<eightyeight> hggdh: maybe i missed it, but what do you do for a living? what requires the travel?
<hggdh> I do consulting work, mostly related with file/data transfer. Proof-of-concepts, design, automation, integration, etc
<nixternal> exotic male dancer at hacker conventions
 * nixternal notes to get that on a business card
<hggdh> on *IX, WIndows, or zOS (IBM mainframes)
<nixternal> wow, haven't heard zOS in a while
<hggdh> nixternal, this specific bit of dancing I gave up long ago...
<pleia2> hehe
<nixternal> LOL!
<hggdh> it's there, and it is strong
<Vantrax|Work> hggdh, any work on the AS400s?
<nixternal> ready to vote pleia2 and eightyeight?
<pleia2> yep
<nixternal> [VOTE]
<MootBot> Please vote on: .
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<eightyeight> yes
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<hggdh> Vantrax, no, never worked with them
<pleia2> excellent work hggdh :)
<nixternal> oops :)
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<eightyeight> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from eightyeight. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<nixternal> hggdh: congrats and welcome!!!!
<pleia2> congrats hggdh!
<Vantrax|Work> grats
<hypa7ia> yay hggdh !
<eightyeight> hggdh: congratulations
 * hggdh gratefully bows
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Leigh Honeywell Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Leigh Honeywell Ubuntu Membership
<eightyeight> you can now breathe a sigh of relief. :)
<fuelthefire99_2> *claps*
<hggdh> thank you all. I can now stop sweating, I guess
<nixternal> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hypa7ia
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/hypa7ia
 * hypa7ia waves
<hypa7ia> hi folks!
<nixternal> [LINK] https://edge.launchpad.net/~hypa7ia
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://edge.launchpad.net/~hypa7ia
<nixternal> howdy hypa7ia
<hypa7ia> so, first off, please refresh my wikipage; I've changed a few things :)
<hypa7ia> Hi everyone!  My name's Leigh Honeywell, and I've been involved with ubuntu in various ways since 5.10.  I learned most of my linux skills using Ubuntu (except for an unfortunate few months on Gentoo) and have been a strong advocate of it since I started using it.
<hypa7ia> By day, I work as a Malware Operations Engineer at MessageLabs, now part of Symantec.  By night, I founded and now help run a non-profit hackerspace in Toronto called HackLabTO.  We do crazy hardware projects and have a laser cutter in our bathtub.
<pleia2> lasers \o/
<hypa7ia> (you can check out the blog for the hacklab at http://hacklab.to
<hypa7ia> )
<hypa7ia> My participation in Ubuntu has mostly consisted of supporting folks both in person and on IRC.  I've also helped a lot of people get started with Ubuntu through the HackLab and before that started as well.
<eightyeight> hypa7ia: where is the focus of your contributions?
<hypa7ia> eightyeight: getting there :)
<hypa7ia> I've been active in the Ubuntu Women project since 2007, on the mailing list but especially on IRC.  I'm also active on the Ubuntu-Ca list and sometimes in their IRC channel, though it's not very active.
<hypa7ia> In the future, I'd like to increase my involvement with Ubuntu to include helping with bugfixing - I just figured out a wiki stylesheet bug, yay!  I'm hoping that mentoring on some projects I'm familiar with for summer of code this year (openswan and OTR) will give me some additional confidence to tackle more unfamiliar stuff in Launchpad!
<eightyeight> sorry. :)
<nixternal> "have a laser cutter in our bathtub."  - remind me to use the other bathtub from now on!
<hypa7ia> nixternal: sadly we only have one bathtub :(  we decided that we could go home to bathe, but couldn't go home to use the laser!
<hypa7ia> so the laser took precedence
<nixternal> the sink it is!
<hypa7ia> :)
<nixternal> joe dirt style
<pleia2> she's been a great troll hunter in #ubuntu-women and in general very helpful contributor on the irc-side (I can always /msg hypa7ia if I need to rant about something :) )
<hypa7ia> nope, we need the sink, because it's the only bathroom we have
<hypa7ia> aww, thanks pleia2 :)
<nixternal> pleia2: I don't know if I can agree with troll hunter, I have yet to be caught!
<pleia2> nixternal: shall I dare you to join -women? :)
<hypa7ia> nixternal: afaik i haven't seen you ask for pix plz in #u-w :p
<eightyeight> is that a problem in that channel?
<nixternal> muhehehehe
<Vantrax|Work> ... should we now?
<hypa7ia> eightyeight: is it ever :/
<pleia2> eightyeight: frequently gets trolled :(
<eightyeight> that's too bad
<pleia2> individual trolls, and troll herds (the channel gets mentioned somewhere like ##politics, trolls invade)
<hypa7ia> the herds seem to happen when i'm asleep
<hypa7ia> i usually try to de-trollify people first
<nixternal> lol
<hypa7ia> but if that doesn't work they get the banhammer of justice
<nixternal> how do you do that?
<pleia2> yeah, they tend to be in western europe in the morning, my sleepytime too
<pleia2> er, eastern
<nixternal> see, I like to feed the trolls
<pleia2> I don't know how to use maps
<Vantrax|Work> DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS... they start to multiply...
<hypa7ia> it's not so much feeding; sometimes people honestly have no idea what them asking for pix plz has to do with there being so few women in FOSS :/
<Vantrax|Work> then they come after you... *shudder*
<hypa7ia> it's pretty rare though
<eightyeight> hypa7ia: i must say that toronto is my favorite city in the world. i lived for for a couple years, and get very nostalgic. :)
<nixternal> what are your future plans for Ubuntu? hacking and packaging right?
<hypa7ia> nixternal: hacking and bugfixing
<nixternal> and documentation!
<eightyeight> hypa7ia: what would a membership mean to you? are there other avenues in ubuntu that you're looking into?
<nixternal> don't trolls eat bugs?
<hypa7ia> i'm getting my feet wet in the banshee code
<nixternal> ouch
<eightyeight> c#, eh? don't tell nixternal :)
<hypa7ia> eightyeight: a membership would be a recognition of my prior contributions, and encouragement towards future work
<nixternal> well the lead banshee dev, Gabriel lives here in Chicago by me, cool people
<hypa7ia> cool!
<nixternal> though he is still scared to ride in the KDEmo-beel
<hypa7ia> i currently code in python for fun and perl/c++ for work
<nixternal> well well well, if it isn't our buddy Mike
<nixternal> anyone testifying (that sounds evil) on hypa7ia's behalf (emmajane?)
<hypa7ia> that does sound like something a preacher would do :p
<emmajane> I am indeed here to speak on hypa7ia's behalf.
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> groovy
<emmajane> I first met hypa7ia in person at Ontario Linux Fest after Angie Byron's Women in Open Source talk. hypa7ia has been an excellent mentor and has done a lot of thinking around the issues that women in tech face.
<emmajane> She presented at my technology conference in 2008 and gave an excellent talk on hacking.
 * nixternal notes if anyone goes sexist on hypa7ia she should smack them with the "I do Perl and C++ at work, what do you do?" card :)
<emmajane> nixternal, sorry, I wasn't finished.
<Vantrax|Work> I have a meeting on in a minute, just wanted to voice my support for Hellow before I go.
<hypa7ia> nixternal: and reverse engineer viruses
<hypa7ia> :)
<nixternal> emmajane: sorry bout that
<pleia2> Vantrax|Work: thanks :)
<eightyeight> Vantrax|Work: thx
<emmajane> In her local community she volunteers her time with many new-to-tech women to help them increase their comfort with their own computers and related gadgets, such as mobile phones.
<emmajane> On at least one occasion I've had the pleasure of meeting the women she's worked with to install Ubuntu. They have gone from being frustrated with tech to excited about it under hypa7ia's guidance.
<nixternal> rock on!
<emmajane> Her work in her local community alone would be enough to qualify her for membership. Her online activism is also very important to our community and helps to set the tone for new participants.
<emmajane> I absolutely support hypa7ia's application for Ubuntu Membership.
<nixternal> now that is what I call a testimonial! thanks a bunch emmajane!
<hypa7ia> the "hang out and install ubuntu on tuesday nights" nights at my house getting too big were among the reasons we ended up starting the hacker space
<eightyeight> emmajane: thank you very much
<emmajane> my pleasure.
<nixternal> hypa7ia: heh, that is a good problem to have!
<hypa7ia> nixternal: indeed!
<nixternal> alrighty, eightyeight and pleia2, ready to vote?
<pleia2> ready
<nixternal> [VOTE]
<MootBot> Please vote on: .
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<eightyeight> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from eightyeight. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nixternal> Technoviking: you voting?
<Technoviking> reading back log quick
<nixternal> groovy
<Technoviking> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Technoviking. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<nixternal> hypa7ia: congrats and welcome!!!
 * maco hugs hypa7ia
<hypa7ia> thanks!
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, hypa7ia!
<nixternal> \o/
<fuelthefire99_2> congrats
<eightyeight> hypa7ia: congrats!
<nixternal> now maco shows up :)
 * hypa7ia does a happy dance
<nixternal> kdub: you around?
<maco> hey my little edubuntu-using cousin just won her first softball game!
<emmajane> hypa7ia, congrats :)
<nixternal> [TOPIC] Collin Pruitt Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Collin Pruitt Ubuntu Membership
<Joeb454> maco: awesome ;)
<nixternal> Hellow: your turn!!!
<Hellow> ok
<Wiebelhaus1> woot!
<nixternal> Vantrax|Work: want to give a quick testimonial before you go?
 * boredandblogging cheers for Hellow!
<Hellow> My name is Collin Pruitt, I am from Georgia in the United States. I do development work for the Netrek Client COW and the Netrek Vanilla Server, and I also do development work for the SmallUnitConverter. I am also a member of the Ubuntu Forums Beginners team and Georgia LoCo. My wiki is here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Collin15 and my Launchpad is here: https://launchpad.net/~hellow. I primarly do work on Launchpad, in Answers and Blueprints, but
<Hellow>  I have triaged a few minor bugs. I am also on IRC frequently. I have used Ubuntu for 4-5 years now, and I try to do as much for the community as possible with my time.
<Wiebelhaus1> Good luck Hellow!
<nixternal> oh no, boredandblogging and blogging is an instant -17843976791803473085426280345672843-257234832-0483028432e13
<nixternal> and blogging? tab complete broke or did I break?
<boredandblogging> ouch, for Hellow's sake then, I'll be quiet :-P
<pleia2> I just thought you were being silly again, go with it
<MontelEdwards> oh, can i say something about Hellow?
<nixternal> MontelEdwards: sure can
<Joeb454> I'd also like to give my support for Hellow. He's always helping whenever he can, especially on IRC. Oddly, for somebody of Hellow's age, he knows way more than most and is ALWAYS around. I'd definitely +1 him just for his support on IRC
<MontelEdwards> Hellow is one of the kindest people i know. he is very smart, and helps me in almost everything that i do. It really has been a joy know him and i am appreciaticve that i do. I really believe that be deserves this member ship a lot and i hope that he will continue to do good. The best IRC helper out there.
<nixternal> nhandler: do you have anything nice to say about Hellow?
<paultag> o/
<eightyeight> paultag: yes? (assuming that's a raised hand)
<thewrath> o/
<paultag> eightyeight, 'tis indeed
<nixternal> Hellow: any plans on moving your HOWTOs from the forums to the wiki (help.ubuntu.com/community)?
<Wiebelhaus1> May I offer a word for hellow?
<pleia2> Wiebelhaus1: go for it
<Hellow> nixternal: I have been considering that for a while, and I feel I will be carrying that out when school ends next week for me
<paultag> I support Hellow's bid for Membership. He has been around, and working tightly with the UF-Beginners team. I love Hellow's attitude, and his love for the community never stops amazing me.
<nixternal> if you have something to say about Hellow, go for it, let it all spill, even the dirty laundry, we want to know it all! :)
<thewrath> pleia2: i woudl do after Wiebelhaus1
 * tim_sharitt supports Hellow's bid for membership
<Wiebelhaus1> Thanks , Hellow is good people , always polite and professional , Has helped me and I've witnessed the guy help others and go out of his way to do so.
<nixternal> Hellow: "young buck"? not another youngster :)  dtchen is around to throw an old grumpy joke at me
<Joeb454> paultag: +1 :) it's impressive
<eightyeight> Hellow: good testimonials. good support here on irc too
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<thewrath> Hellow is very polite, helpful and profesional. He has also helped me on different subjects. he is active in irc for help
<MontelEdwards> eightyeight: hell yeah he deserves them
<nixternal> wow, those are really nice testimonials everyone, thanks for that, very well done
<Technoviking> I have to go, I gave my off channel
<Technoviking> later all
<nixternal> boredandblogging: are you going to say something?
<nixternal> I gave my off channel, Technoviking huh? :)
 * MontelEdwards thinks Hellow should get membership or he is going to explode
<nixternal> nevermind, I can read that off channel :p
<boredandblogging> nixternal: I thought it would better to be quiet, since I have a bad rep ;-)
<pleia2> boredandblogging: haha
<nixternal> nah, I love ya man, speak up!
<pleia2> nixternal: quit scaring boredandblogging away
<pleia2> :)
<boredandblogging> Hellow has been getting involved with the Georgia Team lately
<nixternal> that is the lil tony soprano
<boredandblogging> glad to see him come aboard
<nixternal> groovy
<nixternal> eightyeight: and pleia2, ready to vote?
<pleia2> ready!
<eightyeight> yes
<nixternal> [VOTE]
<MootBot> Please vote on: .
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<pleia2> +1
<eightyeight> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<effie_jayx> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from eightyeight. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nixternal> [endvote]
<MootBot> +1 received from effie_jayx. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<pleia2> congrats Hellow :)
<nixternal> whoa, effie_jayx right at the last minute!
<Hellow> Thanks guys :)
<nixternal> Hellow: welcome and congrats!
<effie_jayx> nixternal,  ;)
<boredandblogging> congrats Hellow!
<eightyeight> Hellow: welcome aboard!
<nixternal> kdub: ?
<fuelthefire99_2> props!
<paultag> Hellow, grats!
<nixternal> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:52.
<nixternal> rock on everyone, great meeting, welcome to the new members and congratulations!
<nixternal> THIS MEETING HAS BEEN ADJOURNED!
<nixternal> go enjoy the evening
<fuelthefire99_2> see ya! congrats new members
<boredandblogging> nixternal: STOP USING CAPS!
<boredandblogging> oh oops
<eightyeight> beers on nixternal
<fuelthefire99_2> caps is cruise control for cool
<fuelthefire99_2> :)
<nixternal> mmm beer
<Wiebelhaus1> cheers all.
<ajmitch> nixternal: you don't need beer
<nixternal> oh yes I do!
 * nixternal goes and grabs another
 * pleia2 seeks dead guy ale
<nixternal> omg, I just had some yesterday....I think that is what it was called
<nixternal> it was dead something ale, black box, red writing
<MontelEdwards> loll
<effie_jayx> nixternal, rolling rock?
<pace_t_zulu> !mootbot
<ubottu> mootbot is a bot to make the process of summarizing !meetings easier - Information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<ButterflyOfFire> Hi et bonjour
<ButterflyOfFire> Okay bon apparement Ã§a se passe ici les rÃ©union de la LoCo Ubu-fr ainsi que de la Webteam-fr
<ButterflyOfFire> Donc bonsoir
<ButterflyOfFire> Je me permet de vous poser cette question adressÃ©e Ã  la Webteam afin d'avoir votre avis
<ButterflyOfFire> Je suis entrain de chercher Ã  synchroniser la table contenant les idenfiants et mots de passes des utilisateurs sur le site web de notre LoCo Ubuntu-dz, histoire que les membres se loguent avec les mÃªmes identifiants sur les sites qui vont graviter autour d'Ubuntu-DZ
<ButterflyOfFire> Histoire Ã  Ã©viter aux membres de crÃ©er Ã  chaque fois un nom d'utilisateur et un mot de passe diffÃ©rents
<ButterflyOfFire> Donc je cherche Ã  synchroniser en bi-directionnel
<ButterflyOfFire> Bon, la solution la plus facile est d'intÃ©grer OpenID certes mais non pas tout le monde utilise OpenID
<ButterflyOfFire> Si quelqu'un passe par ici, ce serait sympa d'Ã©changer ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-21
<MontelEdwards> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 22:34. The chair is MontelEdwards.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<MontelEdwards> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:34.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-22
<ubuntugeek> Hello everyone, welcome to the FC meeting.
<Brucevdk> Hi
 * jacob waves
<Rocket2DMn> good evening
<MichaelGodawski> hi
<Technoviking> hello
<forumsmatthew> hi
<frodon> hi
<ubuntugeek> Alright, lets get started
<ubuntugeek> Is linuxisevolution here?
<ubuntugeek> Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<ubuntugeek> OK we an come back to that item,
<forumsmatthew> FYI, I retract my item as it was birthed out of someone else's desire who is not here. We've had it up for a couple of meetings. If he wants it back, we can re-add it another time.
<ubuntugeek> Brucevdk, lets discuss your topics since you are here.
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: alright
<ubuntugeek> matthew +1
<ubuntugeek> Changing the default subscription mode when starting a new thread (e.g. posting a question) in the Main Support forums (at the very least the General Help forum) to "Instant email notification" by default.
<ubuntugeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda/DefaultSubscriptionMode
<ubuntugeek> I can see where this would be handy, but I can also see that 90% of the people posting there wouldn't want this option by default.
<forumsmatthew> I like how the proposal is written out so clearly. Thanks for that
<Brucevdk> Well, you'll have to realize that I already made the distinction between posting to threads and starting new threads. The notification is only set to email when starting a new thread.
<forumsmatthew> I'm not sure we want to gain the reputation as "the forum that spams"
<forumsmatthew> I do set my account this way, but I'm not sure it would be the desired default for the majority of users
<forumsmatthew> has there been any attempt to measure interest?
<Brucevdk> It's not really all that spammy, because the notification is basically sent once.... not per reply to a thread (untill you visit the thread
<ubuntugeek> Bruce, this isn't actually a configurable option on a "per" forum basis at this time. It is however a "per" user option that affects users globally.
<jacob> idea: maybe add a link to the appropriate option in the welcome email for those that would want it?
<Brucevdk> forumsmatthew: I haven't polled interest
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: I know, that's why I described actually modifying VBulletin to supportp er forum functionality
<Technoviking> I agree with matthew, I would prefer maybe a forum howto telling people how to switch the option on their account themselves
<forumsmatthew> I know that, and you know that, but a new UF user might come in, ask a question, then get angry at email in his inbox...I only say that because I have seen people get frustrated over far less
<forumsmatthew> Technoviking, that's not a bad idea
<ubuntugeek> Technoviking: A post or a FAQ you mean?
<Brucevdk> The problem is, the audience I'm targetting will never voluntarily set a _global_ option for email notification
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: either
<Brucevdk> so global option is out of the question, even in a forum howto
<Technoviking> whatever would get the most eyes
<ubuntugeek> Technoviking: Seems fair enough, perhaps a post in the general area with details how to do it.
<Brucevdk> The only other reasonable option if you do not want to implement this idea for the reasons mentioned is to have a sticky thread telling users to turn on the option when starting a thread
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: ^^
<Brucevdk> Which will most likely still be ignored by the target audience
<ubuntugeek> Perhaps, but remember 90% of the audience isn't going to want to get spammed either.
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: perhaps add some nice, clear text around the notification dropdown?
<ubuntugeek> -1 the idea, but I will +1 a post on how to enable it.
<Brucevdk> something like: "Please set this to instant email notification to keep track of any responses"
<Technoviking> -1 the idea, but I will +1 a post on how to enable it also
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to -1 the overall idea of changing the default, but I'll +1 a post with instructions for how to enable and a little explanation of why that would be useful.
<Brucevdk> What about the idea I just brought up though? Instead of a post an actual hint around the notification dropdown?
<ubuntugeek> Thats fair enough and simple to add.
<ubuntugeek> But my guess is more people will read a sticky, they are used to that
<forumsmatthew> I'm inclined to agree
<Brucevdk> alright, I'd be willing to abonden my idea in favor of a sticky _and_ the little text around the dropdown :-)
<Technoviking> fine with me
<ubuntugeek> Ok, next item
<ubuntugeek> Allow people to change their vote on polls, an example of where this is needed would be this thread.
<ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1139619
<ubuntugeek> (example)
<Brucevdk> (now... that poll doesn't have any votes yet, but it's still a good example of where I think it would be useful)
<Brucevdk> I'm not aware if VBulletin already has this functionality
<ubuntugeek> I hate to say this, but it's not possible with vbulletin (that i am aware of). Once a vote is cast, it is cast.
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: well, if people like the idea, I'd be willing to put implementing support for it on my todo list
<ubuntugeek> I can't remember a single time in the last 4+ years someone asked me to change their vote..
<Technoviking> me either
<forumsmatthew> I've seen maybe two
<Brucevdk> ubuntugeek: doens't mean it's not useful though :-) Maybe they don't realize the potential
<forumsmatthew> but they noted it in the thread, so...
<ubuntugeek> Matthew: right thats the idea :)
<Brucevdk> The example example has to do with "if a device works for you", once your problem is solved, the device does work for you and the poll would not make sense anymore
<Technoviking> I like the idea, but I would like the option to do that be part vBB and not an add-on that would put a strain on the DB
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: any changes to polls in vB 4, that you heard of?
<forumsmatthew> I don't know, it's not a terrible idea, but it's kind of a complex solution to a simple problem: just post a note about it in the thread
<ubuntugeek> Since its not something we can do currently with vbulletin and we are not adding any 3rd party code to the forums I am -1 this idea unless it gets official built into vb4
<Brucevdk> :'(
<forumsmatthew> agreed
<forumsmatthew> -1
<Technoviking> -1 for now, maybe a re-look in vb4
<ubuntugeek> Next up is DougieRichardson here?
<forumsmatthew> it doesn't seem so...
<ubuntugeek> Ok we'll keep it on the agenda.
<ubuntugeek> In general I like the idea Dougie is suggesting.
<forumsmatthew> I think it has great potential. Hopefully he can make the next meeting
<ubuntugeek> agreed
<ubuntugeek> I don't think Jacob was going to make it unless he snuck in.. Jacob?
<jacob> ubuntugeek: right here
<ubuntugeek> w00t
<jacob> we're not leaving for another 45 or so
<ubuntugeek> The floor is yours..
<jacob> anyway, this isn't a concrete discussion item, but I'd like to see what the FC thinks regarding a few ideas brought up in the staff thread
<ubuntugeek> Ok
<jacob> which is.. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1131429&page=2
<jacob> the main point I think I see from it is having some forum/area or another way to discuss submitted tutorials
<ubuntugeek> Gotcha, would this be open or a private forum for the mod's?
<jacob> bapoumba brought this up here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7220505&postcount=21
<jacob> ubuntugeek: that's something worth discussing I should think: we have a few people on staff ready to help out, though should it be open for other members?
<ubuntugeek> other members on a T&T team or just general members?
<ubuntugeek> Just thinking of permission issues/structure
<jacob> on a T&T team; I don't think everyone should be able to view submitted tutorials/comments right away
<forumsmatthew> I would give all staff and any T&T team members access and restrict all others
<jacob> if a T&T team were to be made, they should have access to the mod queue and this forum
<ubuntugeek> Thats something we can do
<ubuntugeek> So this forum would be for discussion on how to handle new T&T's correct?
<jacob> ubuntugeek: yep, correct.
<frodon> it would be even better if a thread could be automatically created in this sub-forum for each item in the queue
<jacob> as for the team itself, members could be found from BT, UA, and others (as bodhi mentioned I think)
<ubuntugeek> I dont have a problem setting up a team and then making a forum for it. I think it would probably be created in the http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=348 forum
<jacob> frodon: that would be pretty cool, don't know if entirely possible? we as staff could use the copy thread function for that to do it manually
<jacob> ubuntugeek: that would work
<ubuntugeek> Jacob: I think it would have to be done manually. I would have to double check
<jacob> ubuntugeek: does vb have signals/actions? it's been ages since I've touched an installation - if it does, an action to copy a thread could be attached to a create thread signal thing (if I could be any more abstract :P)
<frodon> ok, if it's possible it has an interest i think, otherwise doing it manually will do the job
<ubuntugeek> I'd have to check, I cant remember and it doesn't ring a bell. I will let you know
<ubuntugeek> Ok so lets vote to setup a T&T team and create a forum for them. +1
<Technoviking> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<ubuntugeek> Settles that :)
<jacob> easy enough :D
<frodon> great :)
<forumsmatthew> Is ryan here to discuss the final item?
<ubuntugeek> jacob: will you be the team leader?
<forumsmatthew> ;)
<jacob> ubuntugeek: sure
<ubuntugeek> ok
<ubuntugeek> just need to know when I setup the usergroup for the team who will be the leader
<ubuntugeek> Ok, last item.. Talk about Launchpad/forum login integration that we will be testing soon.
<ubuntugeek> Canonical developers wrote a plugin that will allow forum users to bind their forum account to a launchpad account. It also add a link to your profile page showing your LP account if it is bound. We'll be setting up a test vbulletin instance to run through some scenario's.
<ubuntugeek> When I say
<ubuntugeek> bind to their account, it will allow the forums to use the luanchpad login/password/openid system instead of the forums.
<ubuntugeek> launchpad*
<Rocket2DMn> o/
<jacob> awesome
<Rocket2DMn> What happens with users who already have both?
<ubuntugeek> They can still bind them
<ubuntugeek> It just won't change your username on the forums
<forumsmatthew> cool
<Rocket2DMn> Interesting, I like it
<Rocket2DMn> +1 for closer integration with other parts of the community
<Technoviking> will karma be given to forum users for posts?
<jacob> ubuntugeek: will users be able to sign in with LP without having a forum account and be able to instantly create one without going through the whole registration process?
<ubuntugeek> If the user has a LP account and they use it to login on the forums it will create a forum account (i think) if memory serves me correct
<ubuntugeek> if the user doesn't have a forum account
<Joeb454> i think that would be something that needs to be tested
<Rocket2DMn> Would it just default to their LP login?
<jacob> ubuntugeek: what happens if someone registers a LP account as "jacobmp92" (how dare they :P) and tries to sign in?
<ubuntugeek> If the user has a forum account and its bound to LP it won't modify their forum account at all. Except put a link in their profile.
<jacob> (fyi: i'm jpeddicord on launchpad, not jacobmp92, which is why I ask)
<ubuntugeek> If the user doesn't have a forum account but has a LP account it will create a forum account (i think)
<ubuntugeek> jacob, it wont let them that feature is going to be turned off.
<ubuntugeek> So when I get a demo site up we'll have to have a constructive testing phase.
<ubuntugeek> before putting it live :)
<Joeb454> that may involve resident troll getting an LP account
<jacob> yay
<Joeb454> i would assume anyway
<forumsmatthew> Joeb454, I'll tell him when he gets back from vacation
<ubuntugeek> So I just wanted to let everyone know that is coming down the pipe soon :)
<Joeb454> thanks forumsmatthew
<Rocket2DMn> Awesome, I look forward to seeing it
<nhandler> o/
<ubuntugeek> That's all I got, anyone else?
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek: Will forum posting add to LP karma?
<jacob> ubuntugeek: actually, one thing about the T&T group if you don't mind
<forumsmatthew> a link to LP karma would be excellent
<ubuntugeek> Oh sorry Mike, no not at this time its strictly a login mechanism .
<forumsmatthew> it's a start
<jacob> karma would be cool
<Joeb454> it would be nice definitely
<nhandler> Would it be possible to use this LP integration to avoid Ubuntu Members/Developers needing to request a badge on the forums?
<forumsmatthew> sorry, all. I have to run
<jacob> bye forumsmatthew
<ubuntugeek> See ya matthew
<Technoviking> nhandler: that would be a good feature also
<ubuntugeek> nhandler, not at this time
<Brucevdk> if anybody still needs me just use my name in a sentence, meanwhile I'm going back to work
<Technoviking> ubuntugeek, that for the info. I'm off also
<ubuntugeek> Ok see ya all
<ubuntugeek> -- end meeting
<ubuntugeek> Thanks everyone
<Brucevdk> thanks!
 * Joeb454 begins to read logs
<ubuntugeek> We'll make a post on the forums when we are ready to test
<jacob> ubuntugeek: re: T&T group, is it possible to have more than 1 team leader there? don't want to leave out other interested staff
<ubuntugeek> jacob: let me check
<ubuntugeek> Yes we can add more then 1 leader to a group
<ubuntugeek> usergroup(
<jacob> ubuntugeek: ok, thanks. i'll revive that other thread in staff if anyone else wants to join in on that, just curious for now
<ubuntugeek> great. I will get the T&T stuff setup this weekend for you. Maybe tonight even, but I have to run now my wife is waiting to eat :)
<ubuntugeek> Thanks everyone, have a great weekend
<Rocket2DMn> food sounds like an excellent idea
<jacob> ubuntugeek: no rush, i'm off to a grad party ;)
<Rocket2DMn> you too ubuntugeek
<Rocket2DMn> jacob, congrats :)
<jacob> Rocket2DMn: not for me, but thanks (mine is in two weeks :P)
<Joeb454> jacob: can I just ask something re T & T team?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-23
<jacob> Joeb454: sure, shoot
<Joeb454> you said members of the T&T team should be given access to the mod-queue
<jacob> (sorry, was dealing with a virus problem on an xp box :( )
<Joeb454> no worries :)
<Joeb454> but what about users that have been put on moderation (not that we have many, but when there are some) - is that something you want the T&T people looking at?
<jacob> Joeb454: you know, that's a good point, but --
<Joeb454> moderated threads - probably not so bad
<jacob> i'm 99% sure that the mod queue is available on a per-forum basis, unless vB is completely braindead
<Joeb454> I think it is ;)
<jacob> so as long as they are only given access to T&T queue, we should be good
<Joeb454> awesome :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-05-24
<zeromod> excuse me could anyone tell me where you would go to file a complaint for the official #ubuntu channel chanops?
<zeromod> and sorry how is everyone? gring
<zeromod> grin rather.. sorry flustered
<Hobbsee> zeromod: #ubuntu-ops
<zeromod> I can just join an ops channel ?
<Hobbsee> sure
<zeromod> ok thanks Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> they don't bite much
<skullhacks> In how many chats am I?
<Slonkie> one
<skullhacks> no
<skullhacks> about 20
<Slonkie> 19 skullhacks.
<Slonkie> Why is this any important to you?
<skullhacks> because im bored
<Hobbsee> please take it elsewhere, this is a meeting channel
<Hobbsee> #ubuntu-offtopic would be a suitable place.
<skullhacks> ok
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-24
<jdstrand> win16
<Seveas> jdstrand, the 90's called and want their OS back :)
<mhall119> Seveas: no they don't
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-25
<freeflying> meeting today?
<freeflying> persia: ^^
<sivaji> persia: pm ?
<sivaji> freeflying: can you pass on a message to persia ?
<lifeless> freeflying: yes, there is
<lifeless> amachu pinged us
<lifeless> not sure when
<sivaji> Tell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting.
<freeflying> sivaji: seems persia is afk atm
<sivaji> you could tell him when he is here.
<freeflying> ok, so we start?
<persia> Sorry I'm late.
<lifeless> so we're here
<lifeless> 22:10 < sivaji> Tell him amachu's vehicle is broken down, he may not attend today metting.
<persia> Saw that.
<persia> Are we quorate?  Were we waiting for me?  Who's charing?
<persia> Right, so since I'm late, and nobody else is chair, and neither of the aspirants are present, I'm adjourning the meeting.
<lifeless> aye
<persia> I'll be unable to attend the next one, unfortunately.
 * persia updates the date on the wiki page for the early June meeting
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> ogra: GrueMaster: persia, dyfet, ping
<dyfet> pong
<ogra> poop
 * GrueMaster wheezes, coughs, and sputters in.
<ogra> NCommander, you missed davidm :)
<davidm> G'day all
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100525
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100525
<NCommander> ogra: d'oh
<ogra> grr, where is my spec gone
<NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
 * ogra tries to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root
<NCommander> [topic] ogra to SRU bug #568736
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to SRU bug #568736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 568736 in netbook-meta (Ubuntu Maverick) "Having Evolution installed along with Desktop-Email is pointlessly redundant" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568736
<ogra> done
<ogra> uploaded to proposed, seeds for lucid and maverick were changed
<NCommander> [topic] NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to invite ndec to meeting
<ogra> did you ?
<persia> He's not here
<NCommander> I poked him on IRC once or twice, but kept missing them
<persia> And he wasn7t on the ping list
<ogra> there is that awesome thing called email
<ogra> heard about it ? :P
<NCommander> I'll c/o this
<NCommander> Also a c/o on NCommander to poke Keybuk on libnih
<NCommander> [topic] Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team to have spec completed by next week
 * NCommander has his done
 * ogra has one out of three done
<ogra> davidm, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready to go
<ogra> i fail to find https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root and havent done https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl yet
<ogra> somehow the ubuntu-arm team is shuffling everything around atm
<NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
<ogra> nothing on the workitem tracker yet
<NCommander> indeed
<ogra> NCommander make sure to have davidm make your specs valid for it
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, mpoirier)
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to make sure his specs are valid for tracker
<ogra> did you invite mpoirier ?
 * NCommander didn'thave an action to
<ogra> sigh
<ogra> can you send out the two necessary invites today ?
<ogra> ndec and mpoirier
<ogra> by mail
<NCommander> will do
<ogra> thanks
<ogra> so kernel status on omap4 is so-lala
<NCommander> cooloney isn'taround :-/
<ogra> it works but i see bus errors if i do heavy compile jobs
<persia> Interesting traffic on the ubuntu-kernel mailing list.  Looks like we'll have *two* OMAP trees.
<ogra> cooloney is trying to upload the kernel to the canonical-arm-dev PPA atm
<ogra> persia, we do
<ogra> one for omap3 and one for 4
<ogra> NCommander, please test that kernel too asap
<persia> Are they both topic branches, or can we build the omap3 one from the linux source package?
<ogra> so we have more data points
<ogra> persia, no idea, ask kernel team
<ogra> i think omap3 is supposed to be from mainline
<ogra> with some cherrypicks from linux-omap
<ogra> omap4 is completely TI rebased against our tree
<persia> I thought omap4 was our tree rebased against TI's kernel
<ogra> other way round :)
<ogra> omap4 is TI rebasing their patchset against the maverick kernel
 * persia is confused by different contents from different sources, and hopes that someone will make it all clear in the future
<ogra> easy :)
<ogra> 10.07 -> TI 2.6.32 with ubuntu configs
<ogra> 10.10 omap3 and 4 both against 2.6.35 ... omap3 built from mainline, omap4 TI rebased against out tree
<ogra> clearer ?
<NCommander> ogra: mind if I move on?
<persia> Not in any way, because it failed to have any reference to the actual source packages, but that7s OK: the folks who can give me the answer I want aren7t here.
<ogra> well, can you commit to do some omap4 kernel testing ?
<ogra> it would really help if more then one person does it
 * GrueMaster would but ENOHW.
<ogra> persia, source is at omapzoom.org for the 10.07 and at kernel.ubuntu.com in git for 10.10
<NCommander> ogra: sure, I'lltestmore kernels as well
<ogra> (or at least its supposed to end up there)
<ogra> NCommander, thanks
<ogra> move !! :)
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, you can test omap3 ... i think amitk had something for us
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra> ask in #ubuntu-kernel or -arm
<GrueMaster> cool
<ogra> GrueMaster, how is the SRU front looking ?
<GrueMaster> qa status:  Currently working on internal infrastructure improvements and starting to test app builds this week.
<GrueMaster> SRU front?
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> there are still a bunch of SRUs for lucid, no ?
<ogra> especially for kernel stuff iirc
<GrueMaster> I don't know.  All kernel issues from 10.04 were for platforms that are apparently not supported by us as of now.  Haven't heard from any kernel devs about any test kernels since prior to release.
<ogra> you pointed at them last meeting
<ogra> GrueMaster, these platforms are supported for 18 months
<GrueMaster> ok.
<ogra> and you pointed out the SRUs yourself last meeting
<ogra> i.e. the eth0 issues on babbage
<GrueMaster> I'll have to dig up the list again and see if anyone has moved on them.
<ogra> ok
<GrueMaster> I know I haven't seen anything from the kernel team.
<ogra> if not we need to kick some butts :)
<ogra> right, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ?
<NCommander> can I move on, or are we waiting for an SRU list?
<ogra> i guess its all smb but i doubt he'll write the patches himself
<ogra> NCommander, an action :)
<ogra> then move onm
<ogra> i'm happy to be in the action together with GrueMaster
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster+ogra to compose list of notiable SRUs for lucid
<ogra> nah
<NCommander> no?
<ogra> <ogra> right, can you take an action to clearify who is working on what wrt SRUs in the kernel team ?
<NCommander> oh
<ogra> (that was initially to GrueMaster )
<GrueMaster> sure.
<ogra> but you can action him to assemble a list too :)
<ogra> since i only operate from the top of my head which isnt very reliable ;)
<NCommander> [action] GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster to assemble list on what SRU is going on with kernel team
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
<NCommander> toolchain is no longer broken, but Qt is busted. Will review this failure this week and attempt to resolve, as this is breakinga lot fo rdepends
<ogra> yeah kde looks bad
<ogra> as usual
<ogra> and still libnih
<NCommander> indeed
<ogra> that will get us bad days wrt images
<persia> As usual?
<ogra> persia, yeah
<NCommander> ogra: its only broken cause Qt FTBFSed
<ogra> we didnt have a cycle yet where kde/qt wasnt at least broken once
<NCommander> and that looks like a timeout
<ogra> right
<NCommander> ogra: yeah well, GNOME breaks itself as often, no?
<ogra> i saw the discussion with lamont in ubuntu-release
<NCommander> its broken right now!
<persia> Let's not have a toolkit war.
<ogra> nah
<ogra> anyway
<persia> We need both for the flavours built.
<ogra> lamont asked that the package gets a pinger mechanism
<persia> So they need be fixed.  Moving on...
<ogra> for QT
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
<ogra> instead of working around the timeout
<NCommander> nothing new to add on my side
<ogra> so someone has to add such a mechanism
 * ogra points to #ubuntu-release around 22:00 UTC last night
<NCommander> ogra: can you sum up for those who weren't there?
<ogra> <lamont> ScottK: this early in the cycle, could we just fix the package please?
<ogra> <ScottK> It's not clear what 'fix' would mean in it's current state since the dbg really takes that long to build.
<ogra> <ScottK> We are promised qt4-x11 getting more modular, but it hasn't happened yet.
<ogra> <lamont> something that makes sure we spit something out to stdout every 120 min or so, after verifying that the build is, in fact, progressing
<ogra> <lamont> take a look at the compilers :-(
<ogra> <ScottK> Sigh.
<ogra> <lamont> ScottK: as in this is what I get for bending over and violating rules just to avoid rebuilding oo.o everywhere
<ogra> sorry ScottK ...
<ogra> so the request is to not add more timeout override handlers on the buildds but to fix the packages
<ogra> we need some generic mechanism we can put on a wikipage for that i think
 * NCommander disagrees ...
<ogra> for people being hit by these timeouts
<ogra> NCommander, can you take that on with lamont ?
<NCommander> I hate the idea of patching a package so it builds just because its slow
<NCommander> will do
<ogra> he's the one to have to do that work all the time
<ogra> thanks
<NCommander> [action] NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
<MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to discuss build timeout with lamont
<NCommander> ogra: anything else?
<ogra> nope
<NCommander> (damn this meeting is goingby fast)
<ogra> so wrt image status
<ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/preinstalled-sd-card-images-for-omap is ready
<NCommander> \o/
<ogra> NCommander, persia and me have workitems there
<ogra> please everyone have a look and agree/disagree :)
<NCommander> cool
<NCommander> ogra: is that it?
<ogra> GrueMaster, we probably need a specific testing plan since the image operates totally different from what we know
<ogra> NCommander, yeah, any additions ?
<persia> Why not combine the two livecd-rootfs tasks, or at least assign the same person?
<persia> Avoids handoff complexities.
<GrueMaster> From a boot up standpoint it shouldn't be too different from live images.
<NCommander> Just that I'm slowing rolling along with d-cd changes
<ogra> persia, well, i'd rather leave the jasper stuff in one hand
<ogra> GrueMaster, well, there is a lot that can go wrong with these images
<persia> ogra: Also, I thought we were splitting the d-i vs. jasper stuff into two tasks, for scheduling reasons.
<GrueMaster> Other than the initial setup that shouold run at first boot.
<ogra> basically its not different from what casper does, but the results are more harmful if something fails
<ogra> persia, d-i vs jasper ?
<persia> I'm still not entirely happy with the VFAT solution, but will withold detailed complaint until I can come up with something better.
<ogra> there is no other solution
<persia> ogra: my/your task.
<ogra> its a HW limitation
<persia> You're addressing the wrong complaint :)  Wait until I have some alternate to propose, or ignore me :)
<ogra> persia, ah, i dont know if the WI tracker will still pick it up, feel free to split it
 * persia tries
<ogra> i was inclined to add both of us in front
<GrueMaster> ogra: Why not add a testplan line to the blueprint and assign it to me.
<ogra> persia, point is that the u-boot versions we currently have can only read fat
<ogra> GrueMaster, would you work out a testplan based on the spec ?
<persia> GrueMaster: I'm done editing: your turn :)
<NCommander> ogra: persia: please take it offline, then come back?
<ogra> like "check that the blah worked by looking at blupp"
<GrueMaster> I can.  NCommander:  AR time.
<persia> NCommander: Please.
<NCommander> persia: please what?
<ogra> random expression of politeness ? :)
<NCommander> works me
<ogra> works you eh ? :)
<NCommander> er
 * ogra grins
<NCommander> works for me
 * NCommander needs more sleep
<NCommander> which brings me to
<NCommander> [topic] Meeting Time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Time
<NCommander> So
<ogra> anyway nothing else from me for images
<ogra> i think davidm started a discussion by mail about that one
<NCommander> there's no real better time unless either ogra or persia is willing to be shafted with an ungoldly meeting hour.
<NCommander> ogra: I didn't see an email
 * ogra did
<NCommander> ugh, must not be awake enough to remember it
<NCommander> Anyway
<ogra> subject: 	Team meeting times
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> I remember that
<NCommander> Ok
<ogra> nobody spoke up
<ogra> so i guess we'll stay at what we have
<NCommander> Anyway, to sum up, there's no real better thime for this unfortunately, so meeting time is unmoved
<ogra> its a week old
<NCommander> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<GrueMaster> gee, thanks guys.
<persia> Is there really no better time?
<ogra> GrueMaster, ?
<GrueMaster> 6am here.
<NCommander> Just one thing folks; please remember to post your ARs for previous weeks and such.
<persia> I'd be really happy to shift it by ~12 hours.
<ogra> persia, dunno, nobody answered davids mail
 * NCommander would be happy by ~12 hour shift, but I thought that put ogra at a poor time
<ogra> GrueMaster, ^^^
<ogra> lets keep it on that mail
<ogra> and revisit next week
<NCommander> [action] Entire team to respond to davidm's email
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Entire team to respond to davidm's email
<GrueMaster> fair enough.
 * persia tends to be more flexible than most, so leaves the decision to others
<NCommander> :-)
<NCommander> anything else, or can I close out the meeting
<NCommander> going once
<NCommander> twice
<NCommander> good night folks
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:40.
<NCommander> (its nice when we finish early)
<Pendulum> NCommander: can I PM you about something quickly?
 * persia frantically edits the wiki faster
<cjwatson> here
 * micahg waves
<persia> soren: nixternal: geser: stgraber: cody-somerville: ?
 * stgraber waves
<nixternal> hola
<nixternal> perfect timing ey? i must have accidentally shut off my server last night
<persia> quorate!
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC] Action Item Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
<persia> cjwatson to add PPU stuff in LP for Sylvestre Ledru, Scott Moser, Rodney Dawes, and Chad Miller
<cjwatson> done
<Keybuk> gnargh!
<persia> cjwatson to create ubuntu-kernel-uploaders team owned by the DMB that will provide upload permissions to Ubuntu kernel packages.
<cjwatson> not done
<persia> cody-somerville to write an e-mail to the list concerning the layout/format of the DMB meeting - membership first
 * persia moves on, considering Administrative Matters later
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Artur Rona
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication
<AnAnt> DMB ? now ?
<highvoltage> AnAnt: yup
<AnAnt> I thought there was still an hour
<cjwatson> Keybuk: hmm?
<cjwatson> I don't see ari-tczew here, nor on #ubuntu-devel
<Keybuk> cjwatson: hilight attack
<cjwatson> do we know if he's intending to be here today?
<persia> Nor does NickServ have a current record.
<cjwatson> Keybuk: uh, ok
<micahg> he said because of flooding he might have an issue being here
<nixternal> cjwatson: I would think so, since he was a bit unpatient last time..figured he would be here
<AnAnt> is it 14:00 UTC now ?
<nixternal> 15:00 UTC
<Keybuk> cjwatson: have the volume *WAY UP* because someone didn't sit near the microphone (not you, this time) - and just got deafened by the BONG!
<cjwatson> well, we promised to process him first, but why don't we deal with other applications and then deal with his as soon as (if) he arrives?
<persia> So, let's defer ari-tczew for now, giving him priority if he appears, as agreed last time.
<micahg> (03:04:42 PM) ari-tczew: geser: I could be late for tomorrow's meeting, because we have flood in country and can be public communication problems.
<persia> [TOPIC] Administrative matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative matters
<persia> [TOPIC] Meeting Structure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Structure
<cody-somerville> I thought the meeting was suppose to be an hour ago.
<micahg> the fridge said 14:00, the wiki said 15:00
<AnAnt> oh yes, it should have been an hour ago, I mis-calculated
<persia> So, we've talked about how the current structure doesn't always let us get to everyone, and some folks (especiall coredev apps) get shunted, perhaps for many weeks.
<cjwatson> google calendar persistently gets it wrong, probably hence the fridge as well
 * barry went by the wiki time
<nixternal> yeah, the fridge doesn't understand how to tell time
<AnAnt> well, I'm lucky to arrive on time (by accident !)
<persia> The fridge is broken by DST.  Complain to your governments.  Abolish the practice.
<nixternal> the fridge is an epic fail after time changes
<cjwatson> I think we've been spending too long on administrative matters at the start of each meeting ;-)
<AnAnt> ari-tczew is here
<cjwatson> ah, excellent
 * ari-tczew is present
 * nixternal agrees with cjwatson 
<cody-somerville> The fridge isn't broken by DST.
<persia> Right, let7s go back to ari-tczew's app then.
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Artur Rona
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Artur Rona
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArturRona/MOTUApplication
<persia> ari-tczew: Hey.  How are you today?
<ari-tczew> Hello, my name is Artur, I live in Tczew, Poland. I am studying logistics.
<ari-tczew> persia: I'm fine and tired after work. and you?
<ari-tczew> I contribute to Ubuntu (development) since March 2009. I work on merges and syncs, because I like to order, I work on reduce delta between Debian and Ubuntu packages. I work on requested SRUs and security uploads, because I think that these sectors are orphaned.
<cjwatson> (I guess people are reading)
<persia> ari-tczew: A number of the commentors on your application have indicated that they'd like to see you also do more work in other areas.  Have you and recent examples of bugfixes you discovered, or patches submitted to Debian to reduce the need to merge in the future?
<cjwatson> so, it's good to see lots of security and merge contributions; these are areas a lot of people get bored of, and it's good to see somebody picking up lots of work there
<cjwatson> I'm pleased to see comments from the security team
<ari-tczew> yea, last patch to Debian was junitperf
<ari-tczew> now junitperf is Ubuntu = Debian
<persia> Oh, excellent!
<ari-tczew> and if I see that package is fakesynced, then I'll look for new upstream release and submit bug to Debian
<ari-tczew> like I did with lash package.
<nixternal> ari-tczew: I see a couple of comments regarding patience which seems you haven't had in previous situations, what are you doing to fix this issue and do you think it has gotten better?
<persia> Yeah, lash is a special sort of mess :)
<ari-tczew> nixternal: do you mean issue as my patience?
<cjwatson> I'm concerned by your response to Iain Lane's comment; it comes across as very hostile to me, even if Iain's comment wasn't entirely accurate, and in particular I don't like to see responses like "But how about you? How many packages have you done sponsored?" in response to criticism; is this a language barrier thing (which I understand is a lot harder for those for whom English isn't a native language), or do you think ...
<cjwatson> ... it's something you need to work on?  I feel it's important for Ubuntu members to consider criticism they receive, although I know it can be difficult
<nixternal> "Also, I still remember him being upset because he wasn't able to find available sponsors for Main. He should be more patient (even a MOTU needs to be patient sometimes  )"  <- that is a comment from your application
<nixternal> cjwatson: +1 - however it seemed a bit defensive more so than hostile
<cjwatson> maybe that's a better word
 * ari-tczew is reading, translating and writing answer, please wait
<ari-tczew> nixternal that's right, my answer to Laney 's comment is defensive - only constructive 'discussion'
<ari-tczew> heh, patience is a part of heavy character
<ari-tczew> I'll try be more patient
<cjwatson> may I respectfully suggest that "so I think that Iain Lane can't be a MOTU, because he doesn't have done a lot of security issues" (I know it was meant to be exaggeration to show a point) escalates the argument rather than trying to solve it?
<cjwatson> I've probably done the same thing myself on occasion, but I do think it's worth mentioning and trying to avoid
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: solve what?
<cjwatson> Iain is making some criticisms of you, which he's entitled to do (there's no point in an application process with review from other people if all the review is obliged to be positive).  He may or may not be correct about all of it, and there's certainly no problem about disputing cases where you feel he's incorrect; in other cases perhaps the criticisms are ones you should be thinking about and taking on board (as you ...
<cjwatson> ... seem to be doing here in response to nixternal's question).  But I think turning it around in a way that looks like you're attacking Iain is stepping over the line
<cjwatson> for example :-), although I don't agree with you that our failure to deal with your application last meeting was a sign of disrespect, I do think it was bad form and we should try to do better
<cjwatson> if you see what I mean - there's no need to make things personal
<Caesar> Did I make it in time for the DMB?
<persia> Caesar: yes
<ari-tczew> Caesar: be patient :D
<Caesar> Phew, overslept, sorry
<cjwatson> patient> *grin*
<nixternal> ari-tczew: on to technical matters...there seems to have been a few problems with your sync/merges in the past....what have you been doing to improve your packaging and error checking so you don't experience these same issues in the future?
<AnAnt> hah
<persia> ari-tczew: Just to make sure, you're preparing an answer for cjwatson, yes?
<ari-tczew> cjwatson: as I said: you (as DMB team) had 13 days for manage some minutes on meeting for me. 2 hours wasn't enough... sorry, but I still think that this is disrespect for my and my time
 * nixternal needs to be patient this morning...the grumpy old man syndrome is kicking in with phone calls
<persia> ari-tczew: For the implementation of QuickResponse, how would you suggest we encourage developers to focus more on sponsoring, rather than their work-of-interest that drew them to Ubuntu initially?
<cjwatson> ari-tczew: I think there are definitely things we need to improve; you're entitled to your opinion of course
<nixternal> if it was disrespect, it wasn't blatant, however i do not feel it was disrespectful. you have to remember, we are volunteers (well most of us), and we have lives outside of this. we try to get as much done in the time we have
<nixternal> today's weather is gorgeous, i am 100% volunteer, and if someone called and said, "Hey, let's go do a bike ride." I am out of here :)
<ari-tczew> nixternal: heh, if I did mistake in packaging, sponsor comment on bug or tell me on irc what I did wrong, then I'll read on wiki about it and I'll not do this same bug in future
 * ari-tczew is preparing answer for persia
<ari-tczew> persia: so, generally provide a sponsors statistics - it would be easier now with syncpackage script (thanks to bdrung)
<persia> You mean keep track of how much sponsoring is done by each person?  We do that now, and publish the top folks on the Hall of Fame page.
<persia> Or do you mean something richer?
<cjwatson> mm, I really hope that we can just fix the silly remaining problems in LP that mean we can't do this via the LP API, but I don't think I really have much of a leg to stand on in objecting to syncpackage since this has been pending for so long
<cjwatson> (this> syncs)
<persia> cjwatson: It's really close.
<cjwatson> asymptotically :-)
<ari-tczew> persia: hmm, current hall-of-fame is counting sync sponsorship?
<persia> ari-tczew: Should be, if the syncs are processed according to the documentation.
 * persia is done with questions
<ari-tczew> I think about statistics - count from area "Sponsored by:" because with old sync sponsorship procedure, this area wasn't exist
<ari-tczew> current script syncpackage gives this area
<cjwatson> I have no more questions
<stgraber> I'm good with what I saw in the backlog (sorry, was only half around)
<persia> nixternal: geser: cody-somerville: soren: ?
<geser> no questions (but I missed too much of the discussion and irclogs.u.c doesn't have it yet)
<ari-tczew> in addition, would be nice a statistics who and how many packages has uploaded in $release
<cody-somerville> no questions
<persia> OK.
<nixternal> none here
<persia> [VOTE] Artur Rona to be confirmed as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Artur Rona to be confirmed as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> -1: I'd like to see endorsements rather than just comments from the security team *OR* more of the active endorsers not citing so many specific examples of things gone wrong.  I think you're close, but not quite there yet.
<nixternal> +0 - patience! patience! patience! :)  work on communication and I think you will be golden - and what persia just said
<MootBot> Abstention received from nixternal. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<cjwatson> +1 - I was concerned before the meeting, but I think you've addressed most of my concerns in response to questions, and you've certainly been putting in plenty of work
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> persia, Your vote wasn't counted.
<persia> Oops.  colon too close to vote.
<persia> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 1 for, 1 against. 4 abstained. Total: 0
<ari-tczew> but what about Ubuntu Contributing Developer Application ? Artur Rona (if MOTU Application will be rejected)
<persia> ari-tczew requested to apply for Ubuntu Contributing Developer if not confirmed, so starting that vote now.
<persia> [VOTE] Artur Rona to be confirmed as Ubuntu Contributing Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Artur Rona to be confirmed as Ubuntu Contributing Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cody-somerville> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 : Lots of activity, good integration with other developers.  Could benefit from patience, but well aware.
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<ari-tczew> so what I have to do for become a MOTU?
<persia> ari-tczew: I'd recommend addressing the comments made in the vote.  I'm happy to work with you offline to review status at any point.
<persia> So, moving on through the agenda:
<ari-tczew> heh
<persia> [TOPIC] Administrative matters
<MootBot> New Topic:  Administrative matters
<persia> [TOPIC] Meeting Structure
<MootBot> New Topic:  Meeting Structure
<persia> So, we spend too much time on admin matters at the beginning of the meeting, and have a poor sorting order for applicants.
<persia> I propose we do admin stuff last, and process applicants in a first-come-first-reviewed queue.
<persia> Other proposals?  Consensus?  Shall we vote?
<cjwatson> yes, I also propose that we prefer to do admin stuff by mail where it doesn't get in people's way
<geser> +1 on FIFO on applications
<nixternal> persia: we could do applicants like the RMB's do
<nixternal> first-come, first-serve
<persia> nixternal: That's essentially my proposal :)
<nixternal> +1 on that then :)
<nixternal> let's vote on that puppy
<cody-somerville> I feel we should process core-dev, motu, universe contributors, and then PPU requests.
<nixternal> why that order?
<persia> Ah, disagreement.  OK voting then.
<cjwatson> core-dev tend to be the people who've put most effort in
<cjwatson> I guess?
<cody-somerville> Because approving a core-dev will provide the most benefit to Ubuntu and requires the highest level of evaluation and critique. I don't want to be fatigued from the meeting when evaluating a core-dev application.
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, aye
<cjwatson> I tend to agree with Cody; this is the other way round from our prior agenda
<cjwatson> but I think it should be FIFO within that.  We're probably somewhat dependent on the honour system when people edit the wiki
 * cody-somerville nods.
<nixternal> i know there is a hierarchy in the background, however i don't like distinguishing it publically...i think everyone provides the most benefit, no matter what they are applying for
<nixternal> i think first-come, first-serve is the most fair of options
<cody-somerville> This isn't about being 100% fair.
<geser> and I don't like making it unpredictable for PPU applicants when they get processed
<nixternal> i don't think it should be about position in the community either, seems to show a bit of favortism in my eyes
<persia> If we're doing an order, I'd prefer packagesets, core-dev, all uploaders, contributing developers
<geser> and I don't agree in that sorting that PPU comes after UUC
<cody-somerville> This isn't about favortism. This is about prioritizing our time.
<cjwatson> err, yes, I agree with geser's most recent point (PPU should be before UUC)
<persia> To me PPU isn't any different from foo-dev (including MOTU)
<maco> geser: potential for resource starvation?
<nixternal> if it is about prioritizing time, i think ppu and contribs should go first, since they are usually the easiest and fastest to process
<nixternal> or we jsut do roshambo
<persia> So because we spend too much time on admin matters, I'm going to run some votes, quick like.
<cody-somerville> If someone is fit to be core-dev, we should prioritize giving them that access because they will tend to, based off of the criteria for core-dev, provide the greatest benefit to the project. We shouldn't hold them up because we're busy approving drive by developers.
<nixternal> or rock-scissors-paper for those who aren't groovy like me :p
<persia> [VOTE] DMB shall switch from per-class order to first-come-first-reviewed order
<MootBot> Please vote on:  DMB shall switch from per-class order to first-come-first-reviewed order.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cody-somerville> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> -1 : Based on discussion I like per-class more and more
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nixternal> shite, I meant to do -1 :/
<cjwatson> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<nixternal> I was with persia's thinking as well...i just had to poke and prod to be persuaded
<persia> OK.  motion can't pass at this point.
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 3 against. 0 abstained. Total: -1
<nixternal> groovy
<persia> Now, for orders.
<cjwatson> PPU and contribs go first> this worked quite badly last time round, I think
<persia> [VOTE] DMB should keep the current per-class order
<MootBot> Please vote on:  DMB should keep the current per-class order.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> although hard cases make bad law and all that
<cjwatson> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cjwatson. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
<persia> -1 : PPU+contribs first is working badly
<cody-somerville> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
<MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
<nixternal> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from nixternal. 0 for, 4 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -4
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 0 for, 4 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -4
<persia> motion cannot pass.
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 4 against. 1 abstained. Total: -4
 * persia , being chair, picks his version first
<persia> [VOTE] DMB shall switch to packageset approvals, core-dev approvals, all uploader approvals (MOTU, PPU, cli-mono-dev, etc.), contributing dev approvals
<nixternal> oh, this isn't going to be fun, I can tell that already
<MootBot> Please vote on:  DMB shall switch to packageset approvals, core-dev approvals, all uploader approvals (MOTU, PPU, cli-mono-dev, etc.), contributing dev approvals.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1 : it7s mine :)
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cody-somerville> +0 : Undecided.
<MootBot> Abstention received from cody-somerville. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1 : ok, i can see how this will be beneficial
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<cjwatson> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> motion cannot pass with current attendees
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 0 against. 3 abstained. Total: 2
<persia> This will go to mail, and we'll have a good order next time.
<geser> what about an upper limit of applications per meeting? we seem to be only able to handle 4-5 applications in one meeting (10-15 min on average)
<persia> geser: Sounds good, but let's continue by mail, as we don't have consensus (and we7re already into the second hour)
<persia> [TOPIC] Mozilla Uploaders Package Set
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mozilla Uploaders Package Set
<persia> micahg: Do you have a link for us to review?
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html
<persia> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html
 * persia has no questions about this set
<geser> persia: did "Voting procedures" got also moved to mail?
<persia> geser: OOps!  I'll hit that next (before we clear admin matters).  Thanks.
<cjwatson> gnome-shell?
<nixternal> eclipse?
<micahg> cjwatson: it's a xul rdepend in universe
<nixternal> isn't there a team working on eclipse uploads already?
<micahg> cjwatson: if it goes to main, I would say to remove it
<persia> nixternal: The Java team does most of them, but there have been some special xul-related changes over time.
<nixternal> gotcha
<persia> (as the Java team works almost exclusively in Debian, and relies mostly on syncs)
<persia> Is everyone still reviewing the list?  Are there more questions?
<nixternal> no more questions
<cjwatson> I have no further questions on the list
<persia> micahg: In addition to the request for this team, this change would make you an Ubuntu Developer: have you prepared any support for such an application?
<micahg> persia: no, I haven't
<micahg> but some of my sponsors are in here
<nixternal> you need to get to it then, don't make me walk down to your office and give you a smackin' too :)
 * chrisccoulson waves
<persia> Procedurally, I think we'd want the DMB to be the owner of the team, and process approvals.
<micahg> persia: yes, I was going to transfer that
<micahg> *ownership
<persia> I'd like to separate packageset from micahg's development status: anyone object?
 * micahg is fine with that
<cjwatson> fine by me
<nixternal> +1
<persia> [VOTE] Creation of a Mozilla Package set with a set of developers to be administered by the DMB
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Creation of a Mozilla Package set with a set of developers to be administered by the DMB.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1 : It's basically already there in practice
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> cody-somerville: stgraber ?
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nixternal> i have to let the dogs out...I will be back in like 5 minutes
 * persia times out waiting
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<barry> nixternal: who let the dogs out?
<persia> micahg: Do you want to be considered later in today's agenda (time permitting), or make an application for next time?
<micahg> persia: next time I think
<persia> OK.
<persia> [TOPIC] Voting Procedures
<MootBot> New Topic:  Voting Procedures
<highvoltage> persia: tumbleweed is (probably still) afk for a little while, I know he'd like to be considered today (time permitting)
<persia> It was raised that it can be very stressful being voted on directly live in an IRC session, and that the nature of a time-pressured meeting may make the DMB unable to give a considered recommendation to a deferred applicant.
 * tumbleweed is (mostly) back
<persia> One proposal to address this would be to not have the voting inline at the meeting, but rather ask the questions, and vote via the mailing list, preparing a decision and recommendation for each candidate by the following meeting.
<geser> do we get enough votes for the next meeting based on the expierence with email votes in MC and the few deferred votes in DMB?
<persia> Based on that experience, I'd say no, although we could certainly try to be better about that.
<cjwatson> dual-running between email and IRC is difficult
<cjwatson> when it's primarily one or the other it works better I think
<persia> Primary email worked well as long as folks were actually voting.  At some point, the members of the MC stopped voting in a timely manner.  I'm unsure whether that behaviour would carry to the members of the DMB.
<persia> One advantage of primary email is that it7s asynchronous nature tends to reduce the perception of "not getting to folks".
<nixternal> ok, back
<nixternal> did the world end? it is so quiet for a meeting right now
<persia> OK.  I'm not seeing significant discussion, and I don't think there's a clear answer.
<cjwatson> perhaps we can vote on it by e-mail ;-)
<persia> Let's discuss via email.
<persia> And now to the actual applications :)
<nixternal> lol
 * geser hopes to see a real discussion and not only one or two emails
<persia> First up: barry: my apologies for not noticing earlier, but I'd like to ask you to wait for the next meeting, due to not having had a very long perio of peer review for your application (added to wiki 22nd may, no devel-permissions post)
<persia> Would that be acceptable to you?
<barry> persia: not a problem at all!
<persia> Thanks, and sorry for not noticing earlier.
<barry> no worries.  i knew i was cutting it short, but was feeling optimistic :)
<geser> was no email sent or is it in the moderation queue?
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock
 * micahg apologizes, but has to duck out and thanks the DMB for their time
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication
<barry> geser: i'm fairly certain i sent an email.  never heard back though
<persia> Caesar: Still about?
<cjwatson> geser: there was nothing in the moderation queue today
<persia> OK.  Skipping ahead (we'll come back if Caesar reappears)
<persia> AnAnt: You still about?
<AnAnt> yes
<AnAnt> but I'm sorry that I'll have to leave after 10 mins
<geser> barry: hmm, then it seems to get lost somewhere as it isn't on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/thread.html either. Could you resend it?
<persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Ahmed El-Mahmoudy
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Ahmed El-Mahmoudy
 * persia apologises for the copy&paste issues limiting correct typography
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ø£Ø­ÙØ¯ Ø§ÙÙØ­ÙÙØ¯Ù/MOTUApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/#-E/ 'DE-EH/J/MOTUApplication
<barry> geser: will do
<AnAnt> the link by MootBot won't work
<cjwatson> AnAnt: there was a controversial sl-modem bug I saw going past in e-mail; I mostly ignored it at the time :-), but could you give us your take on that?
<AnAnt> this might work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%D8%A3%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF%D9%8A/MOTUApplication
<AnAnt> cjwatson: yes, there is a problem in upstream itself
<cjwatson> yay for WTF-8
<AnAnt> there is no upstream development
<AnAnt> they're doing their best & they just accept patches
<AnAnt> they = guys @ linmodems.org
<barry> geser: resent.  i'm heading to lunch now tho.  see you next week :)
<AnAnt> also there might have mistakes from my side regarding the specific bug you mentioned
<persia> barry: Two weeks :)
<AnAnt> for example I would prepare the package on intrepid (because that is the system I am using), to fix a bug in karmic
<cjwatson> right, that's the part I'm most interested in your comments on, I realise that sometimes we're stuck with a mostly-inactive upstream - it's a fact of life sometimes
<AnAnt> yet dkms in karmic had a change that made the package break (& I didn't know until the bug reporter told me about that)
<AnAnt> another thing (if I recall correctly) is that the package used to use module-assistant, hence a package that is not really maintained by developers used to exist on systems that installed old packages of sl-modem
<AnAnt> or maybe that wasn't the issue
<AnAnt> s/the/an
<AnAnt> but I cannot put all the blame on myself
<AnAnt> a package on PPA is not really guaranteed to work, and I am asking the reporter to try it
<AnAnt> sorry if I forgot some details (that has been months ago)
<barry> persia: two weeks: ack
<AnAnt> but I agree with Rolf that I shouldn't have closed the bug
<AnAnt> but rather set its status as incomplete
<AnAnt> nothing else to say I suppose
<cjwatson> fair enough, I'm happy with that answer
<cjwatson> thanks
<persia> Other questions quick?  We're at the 10 minute boundary, so we either need to finish this next time, or decide we can vote.
<nixternal> nothing here
<cjwatson> I have no further questions
<persia> cody-somerville: stgraber geser ?
<geser> no
<cody-somerville> one second
<cody-somerville> okay, read
<persia> cody-somerville: Are you comfortable voting?
<cody-somerville> Yes.
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Ahmed El-Mahmoudy as MOTU
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Ahmed El-Mahmoudy as MOTU.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<persia> +1 : my main concern with this application is that I failed to arrange time to add an endorsement prior to it making the agenda
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> +1 - good endorsements, good answer to my question, my personal experience doesn't suggest anything to worry about
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<Caesar> persia: sorry, child responsibilities, back now
<cody-somerville> +1 - good endorsements, reviewed changes look good, etc.
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> stgraber: ?
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> Caesar: We're tight on time, please forgive us if we don't finish (there's another meting coming)
<persia> before we start that, could I ask for a volunteer to chair next time?
<AnAnt> well, thanks
<Caesar> persia: I can live with a deferral
<AnAnt> I've really got to run now
<AnAnt> bye
 * persia will not be able to attend, being on holiday
<cjwatson> I can chair
<persia> cjwatson: Thanks.
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Andrew Pollock
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndrewPollock/DeveloperApplication
<Caesar> I may have misunderstood the totem pole. If I can upgrade to MOTU without being a huge pain in the arse...
<Caesar> Otherwise I'll run with what I've got here now, and go for MOTU later
<persia> I'm not convinced we have time for MOTU at all.
<Caesar> Okay
<Caesar> Stick with what we've got
<cjwatson> you can but the pro-forma for MOTU applications usually involves rather more extensive documentation, so I think it would be best to go with what we've got
<Caesar> Yeah no worries
<cjwatson> I have no questions here anyway
<Caesar> I can upgrade to MOTU at another time
<persia> Caesar: In your "What I like least about Ubuntu" statement, you suggest that other decisions ought be made for LTSs.  Do you have any specific suggestsions?
<geser> Caesar: I hope I sorted your application correctly, as the title was a little bit confusing
<persia> Or rather, suggestions for a process that helps ensure that goal?
<nixternal> yeah, no questions here really... I guess I have always assumed you were already a MOTU or more
<Caesar> geser: I was a little confused about what a Contributing Developer was
<Caesar> I thought that was a rebadged MOTU at the time
<Caesar> persia: I think just slightly more conservatism at the time that blueprints are accepted for the LTS release?
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu%20Contributing%20Developers
<Caesar> cjwatson: right, I read that
<cjwatson> still requires sponsorship, but confers membership, essentially
<Caesar> I think the "continue with sponsored uploads" bit had me slightly confused
<persia> OK.  Starting a vote: please vote +0 if you have more questions (as we're out of time)
<cjwatson> I would be happy to discuss conservatism or otherwise over a beer or something :)
<cjwatson> I don't think we really need to dig into it at this point
<Caesar> cjwatson: if I ever make another UDS :-\
<persia> [VOTE] Confirm Andrew Pollock as a Contributing Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Andrew Pollock as a Contributing Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nixternal> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nixternal. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> Caesar: dependents, huh?
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1 : Caesar has been around (and helpfully so) for a very long time
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<Caesar> cjwatson: that and I'm not working on Goobuntu any more
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> ah
<persia> cody-somerville: stgraber: ?
<cody-somerville> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> out of time
<Caesar> Woot. Thanks guys
<persia> AnAnt, Caesar: Congratulations.
<cody-somerville> Congratz!!
<nixternal> congrats and welcome! \o/
<persia> cjwatson: Please accept an action to set up the mozillla package set.
<nixternal> is it time for a beer yet?
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:00.
<JFo> o/
<lag> o/
<cking> \o
<smb> \o
<manjo> \o\
<apw> o/
<bjf> Roll Call
 * ogasawara waves
 * JFo here
 * tgardner waves
<jjohansen> \o
 * manjo rolls in
<apw> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<smb> \o
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Maverick
<cnd>  /o
<cjwatson> persia: ok
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: ogasawara to email out reminder regarding blueprint disposition
<ogasawara> bjf: done
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: smb to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: smb to add work item for updating karmic fsl-imx51 in line with lucid
<smb> done
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Action Item: jfo to explain new bug review process
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Item: jfo to explain new bug review process
<JFo> in progress
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (none yet)
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Alpha 1 Milestoned Bugs (0)
<JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs ()
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (34 across all packages)
<JFo>  * 1 linux kernel bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug
<JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Milestoned Features -
<JFo>  * 13 blueprints
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-arm-single-zimage
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-arm-kernel-as-bootloader
<JFo> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<JFo> *** NOTE: This listing includes HWE Blueprints***
<JFo> ===
<JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:130 (down 2 from last week)
<JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
<JFo> Breakdown by status:
<JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-apparmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-apparmor
<jjohansen>   Working on dfa translation for the compatibility patch for old kernel interface, and will use this to cross verify the upstreaming interface changes.
<jjohansen> so current upstreaming code isn't yet compatible with lucid
<jjohansen> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-firewire-stack (manjo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-firewire-stack
<manjo> I emailed out a description of what needs to be done, and why we need to do it t
<manjo> o the ukml. Waiting on responses.
<manjo> looks like we need help from foundations
<manjo> ..
<ogasawara> manjo: I was thinking you might want to CC foundations on that email as well.
<ogasawara> manjo: as they likely don't follow ukml
<manjo> apw, was of the opinon that we discuss it on the list 1st I thought
<apw> thats fine we can point them at it either way
<manjo> ogasawara, yes I can cc them as well..
<manjo> ..
<apw> we need their input for sure
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-misc (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-misc
<apw> Tim has pulled out the -preempt flavour from Maverick with a view to it being a community supported flavour from its own source package.  The new ubuntu-debian.git repository is up and seeded with Maverick debian plus some fixes developed f
<apw> ollowing testing on Karmic and Lucid; scripts now exist to apply this back to th
<apw> ose releases.  Finally the broadcom wl driver has been fixed for Maverick.
<apw> ..
<bjf> Just an observation, lots of people have items in the whiteboard for this blueprint but there are very few subscribers
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts (tgardner)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-new-kernel-on-lts
<tgardner> LTS backport is undergoing tests (no problems so far). I've uploaded to the kernel PPA at http://ppa.launchpad.net/kernel-ppa/ppa/ubuntu. I've also created a new branch in the Lucid repository called lts-backport-maverick
<tgardner> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel (jjohansen)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-pv-ops-ec2-kernel
<jjohansen>   Playing with paravirt-ops kernel for legacy /dev/tty and /dev/sdX used by EC2 and integrating in to the virtual kernel, currently /dev/hvc -> /dev/tty changes require !VT
<jjohansen>   Have built and Produce kernels with paravirt-ops enabled for testing, but they aren't quite ready for hand off to scott and others for further testing
<jjohansen> ..
<apw> how big si the delta there ?
<jjohansen> it is small
<apw> just configuration ?
<jjohansen> I couple of patches that touch hvc and xen_blkdev
<abogani> bjf: subscribed
<tgardner> mostly device name changes, right?
<jjohansen> some config changes, and removing wireless-crda from packaging
<jjohansen> yes
<jjohansen> /dev/hvc -> /dev/sd
<jjohansen> and /dev/hvc -? /dev/tty
<apw> jjohansen, thanks ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-tracing-support (cnd)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-tracing-support
<cnd> I'm currently in the process of reviewing the configs for tracers in maverick, other work (tooling packaging) has yet to be started
<cnd> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> I'm hoping to update iscsitarget today.  apw had a rather large set of patches associated to his name during the
<ogasawara> delta review, so I could see him extending this work item to Alpha2.  manjo only has one patch to follow up on, so I suspect he should be able to complete this by next week, ie. Alpha1.
<ogasawara> ..
 * apw squeeks ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-union-mounts (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-union-mounts
<manjo> smb, I emailed you regarding that patch as you requested
<apw> kernels are up for testing in my purple PPA, no feedback as yet from foundations
<apw> ..
<smb> manjo, Yes I saw it, but have not got time to follow up
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-config-review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-config-review
<ogasawara> The two bugs/work items are Fix Committed and should close when I upload today.  This will then complete the blueprint.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-bug-handling (jfo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bug-handling
<JFo> Working on the wiki pages with input from apw, ogasawara and smb. this is an action on 2 BPs misc and bug handling. Which should it be under?
<apw> bug handling
 * ogasawara votes bug handling too
<apw> as you are doing most of it
<JFo> also we have discovered that the Expired status is missing from Launchpad so the done item will need to be reopened
<JFo> apw, ok
<smb> sounds reasonable ..
<JFo> I'll remove it from misc then
<apw> JFo, 'missing' ?
<JFo> missing as in not there
<bjf> apw, will look into it after the meeting
<apw> bibble ..
<JFo> so the expired script is doing its job but unable to actually expire bugs
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-upstart (apw)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-upstart
<apw> Leann has written up the new modules.builtin rules exceptions.  Other progress i
<apw> s slow but still hoped to hit Alpha-1.
<apw> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-reducing-dkms-packages-required-for-hardware-enablement
<cking> nothing to report
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<MootBot> New Topic:  kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation (cking)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-maverick-bios-test-automation
<cking> Identified some tests "low-hanging fruit"
<cking> Git repo: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=cking/ubuntu-firmware-test-suite/.git;a=summary
<cking>   Test suite framework complete (fancy logging, execution mechanism, kernel log parsing, etc..)
<cking>   Test added in past week:
<cking>      dmi_decode:  test DMI/SMBIOS tables for errors
<cking>      acpiinfo:    general ACPI sanity check
<cking>      syntaxcheck: check for DSDT AML syntax errors
<cking>      klog:        check for generic errors in kernel log
<cking>      wakealarm:   ACPI wakealarm test
<cking>      s3:          suspend/resume test (in progress)
<cking>      with the help of some code lifted from the Intel Firmware Test kit
<cking>   Working on:
<cking>      common:      check common kernel log errors
<cking>      s4:          hibernate/resume test
<cking>      semanticAML: some semantic AML checking
<cking> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Maverick (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> It's been almost a week since I've uploaded and I've accumulated quite a bit of patches since then.  We've pulled in the -omap flavour, tweaked multiple config options per our UDS config review, and dropped a number of patches based on our UDS delta review.  We're also now carrying the two security kernel hardening patches for hardlink/symlink protections.  That being said, I'll be uploading 2.6.34-4.11 today (note the A
<ogasawara> BI bump).  I'll likely do one last upload on Friday, so get your patches to the list and ack'd before then if you want something to land in the Alpha1 kernel. Also, please test once 2.6.34-4.11 is uploaded if you are able to.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
<smb> Noting changed since last week. Currently working with priority on getting
<smb> all of the topic branches ready for security plus providing test kernels for
<smb> all ec2 and arm branches. Will send out separate mail for testing.
<smb> Target for security release is early next week.
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo> 1134 Lucid Bugs
<JFo> 4 Maverick Bugs
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-potential ====
<JFo>   * 3 maverick bugs
<JFo>   * 302 lucid bugs (to be converted to regression-release)
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 25 lucid bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 9 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bug (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 149 lucid bugs (up 8)
<JFo>   * 50 karmic bugs (down 2)
<JFo>   * 20 jaunty bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 10 intrepid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 3 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 1 lucid bug (no change)
<JFo>   * 1 karmic bug (no change)
<JFo> ..
<cnd> can we drop the intrepid bugs now?
<cnd> ..
<JFo> I assume so
<JFo> ogasawara?
<ogasawara> I'd say drop em
<JFo> EOL was end of April
<JFo> ok
<JFo> will so
<JFo> err do..
<apw> yep no obvious reson to report them
<manjo> should atleast add comment saying update to latest version of ubuntu
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
<JFo> Bug Days will start back next week. I plan to send out an announcement for the next one later this week with a reminder the business day before. The current plan is to review Bugs with Patches attached to eliminate misreported patches and prepare the list for team review.
<JFo> I am however, open to suggestion should the Bug day topic need to change
<apw> seems a valid use of the day ..
<JFo> I assume we'd like to focus on those as a team at some point as well
<JFo> so we can see what is cruft and what is not
<JFo> so I am open to a Kernel Bug Day soon too
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<JFo> o/
<abogani> Who could review my -lowlatency package (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-May/010707.html) ?
<abogani> AND
<abogani> Who could upload it when will be ready?
<smb> I probably would volunteer but I am already badly behind reviewing -rt
<smb> ..
<abogani> lowlatency is a very simple package.
<cnd> abogani: I can try to review
<cnd> but I don't have upload rights
<cnd> ..
<bjf> JFo, go
<JFo> apw, did you want to discuss the priority listing briefly?
<JFo> or wait?
<apw> abogani, i have it on my list to review
<apw> we can worry about upload after that
<abogani> apw: Ok. Thanks.
<apw> JFo, sure
<cjwatson> would it be hard to get at least fbcon built-in in the near future (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Grub2BootFramebuffer)?  I guess vesafb might require a bit more thought
<ogra> vesafb might get tricky with arm :)
 * ogra agrees fully on fbcon
<ogasawara> cjwatson: I can look into it, can you open me a bug so it doesn't fall off the radar
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
<JFo> thanks bjf
<lag> Cheers bjf
<apw> ok
<cking> ditto
<cjwatson> ogasawara: ok
<cjwatson> ogra: obviously vesafb is per-arch
<ogra> indeed thus the ":)" :)
<cjwatson> ogasawara: bug 585490
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585490 in linux (Ubuntu) "build in fbcon on all architectures" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585490
<ogasawara> cjwatson: thanks, will try to get it in for the Alpha1 kernel
<cjwatson> kewl
<ivoks> sommer: o/
<sommer> yo :)
<sommer> how's it going
<ivoks> quite good
<Daviey> \o
<ivoks> \o/
<ttx> o/
<mcas> o/
 * Daviey and kirkland need to make our apologies.  We are sprinting
<Daviey> (Sorry)
<sommer> o//
<Daviey> \o
<hggdh> ~o~
<ttx> Daviey: why do you need to apologize ? You plan to miss the meeting ?
<ivoks> o7
<zul> hi
<jjohansen> \o
<mathiaz> o/
 * SpamapS yawns
<ttx> Hello everyone
<ttx> jiboumans is on a call and might be late, asked me to start without him.
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<SpamapS> ajoi
<smoser> 0/
<ttx> Welcome to the 15428th Ubuntu Server Team meeting
 * smoser claps
<ttx> Agenda is fresh at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> Lucky scribe is SpamapS
 * SpamapS bows
<ttx> SpamapS: details about minutes publication at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#Team%20policy
<zul> muhaha
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * ttx to confirm spec submission deadlines with Jos: DONE
<ttx> Deadline was today EOB, but we'll discuss that later
<ivoks> oh?
<ttx> * ttx to walk SpamapS through the spec process
<ivoks> doh.
<ttx> DONE as well, I think. He ran out of questions
<ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick Alpha2 subcycle and specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick Alpha2 subcycle and specs
<ttx> We need to finalize specs, review them and assign some of them to the Alpha-2 iteration this week
<ttx> Specs that are ready must be set to "Review" status
<ttx> Given that a fair number of them are not yet in that status, I assume that today's deadline might be difficult to reach
<ttx> So please move as many as you can to that status today. And the new deadline is tomorrow EOB
<zul> yay!
<ivoks> thank you!
<mathiaz> ttx: what'S the most important items that should be part of the specs?
<ttx> We'll review the specs starting today, asking questions on the whiteboard
<mathiaz> ttx: should WI be already defined?
<ScottK> ivoks: I'll take care of the mail stack spec.
<mathiaz> ttx: can the user stories be postponed?
<ivoks> ScottK: ok
<mathiaz> ttx: or should the spec be completly ready?
 * ScottK even started on it already.
<ttx> mathiaz: design is the most important. Implementation (or WI) should at least give an idea of how much work is involved
<ttx> mathiaz: if you need to pick something to leave out, user stories are a good candidate
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - so in order of importance: 1. Design 2. Work Items (=implementation) 3. Other sections
<ttx> mathiaz: I have a few specs where I'm missing info, so having an open plan in the spec is ok too. Something where the first steps of Implementation is "find the right design" :)
<ttx> mathiaz: yes
<SpamapS> such as "cloud-loadbalancer - create proof of concept LB config backend (puppet or REST): TODO
<ttx> Ideally community specs would be filed by that deadline as well. Especially if they rely on some outside help
<ttx> If they are not ready by tomorrow EOB we'll have trouble incorporating them in the general server roadmap
<jiboumans> appologies for the late join, a call ran somewhat over. Thanks ttx for getting things started.
<ttx> jiboumans: floor is yours, sir
<jiboumans> ttx: that went fast :)
<jiboumans> so, what ttx said ^ ;)
<mathiaz> ttx: well - you've started the meeting
<mathiaz> ttx: so only you can drive the bot
<ttx> mathiaz: I can drive the bot.
<mathiaz> ttx: (that may be a detail in the meeting though)
<jiboumans> ttx: anything more on blueprint/spec prep?
<ttx> I don't think so... Questions ?
<ttx> Of course you can start working on urgent items on your specs.
<jiboumans> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> Also last thing...
<ttx> Remember that merging is in full swing, and needs your help :)
<zul> done and done
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hggdh> none ATM. I just marked my specs for review
<jiboumans> hggdh: excellent. any input needed from us for those that you'd like to bring up?
<zul> i would like to bring up something actually
<hggdh> only the additional test rig
<hggdh> zul, please go ahead
<jiboumans> hggdh: let's sync up on that outside this meeting to get the fine points clear
<zul> it seems my access to nominate bugs for lucid has disapeared which slows me down is there a way to get that fixed?
<ttx> Daviey/kirkland: are you around ?
<jiboumans> i'll take that as a 'no'
<jiboumans> zul: can you raise it with kirkland/daviey via mail please?
<SpamapS> not sure if this is pertinent exactly, but I added myself as a bug triager on Fridays
<zul> jiboumans: sure
<ttx> jiboumans: my question was unrelated to zul's problem
<SpamapS> per zul's request I might add
<ttx> I don't think they can help
<jiboumans> ttx: my bad
<mathiaz> zul: hm - has you membership in some team expired latelyÃ
<mathiaz> zul: ?
<zul> mathiaz: i dont think so
<jiboumans> zul: in that case we'll need to contact a losa right?
<mathiaz> zul: I talk to bdmurray - he may be able to figure it out
<ttx> zul: see with bdmurray first
<zul> jiboumans: probably lemme poke around a bit more
<jiboumans> alright, anything else on QA?
<hggdh> no news there for now
<zul> not from me
<ttx> hggdh: should the qa workflow spec be considered a server or a QA spec ?
<ttx> i.e. who should be the approver ?
<hggdh> ttx: this is a good Q, I cannot answer. I would venture a mix
<ttx> jiboumans: where do you want it ?
<jiboumans> ttx: since we initiated it, leave me as the approver for now
<ttx> ok, same for UEC testing, I suspect.
 * hggdh thinks it saner
<jiboumans> definitely for UEC testing
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<jiboumans> jjohansen: o/
<jjohansen> hey :)
<jiboumans> i was wondering about the kernel upgrades in uec/ec2
<jjohansen> So I have started playing with the maverick pv-ops ec2 kernel
<jiboumans> you're way ahead of me i see
<jjohansen> I have built several but none have successfully booted :(
<jjohansen> At the moment I am trimming configs and rechecking packaging/builds
<zul> jjohansen: need help?
<jjohansen> nah, not yet any way
<jjohansen> its early can't really expect it to go right the first few times
<zul> jjohansen: its probably nothing to do with the configs, its probably more to do with the vmlinuz you'll have to strip it
<jjohansen> so hopefully we will have a kernel in a few days
<SpamapS> I have an item in the cluster filesystem spec about Ceph being available as a module in the maverick kernel (which it is not in the latest). Do I need to add a work item in my spec for somebody on the kernel team?
<jjohansen> zul: hrmm it should be stripped but I'll check
<ivoks> one thing
<zul> jjohansen: xen versions have different boot loaders
<jjohansen> We already have that on our misc configs
<ivoks> that's a cloud filesystem
<jjohansen> ceph should be enabled with the next upload
<SpamapS> jjohansen: ty. :)
<jiboumans> SpamapS: good to add a workitem anyway so we can keep track of it
<ttx> ok, any other questions for kernel ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly status for Server documentation (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly status for Server documentation (sommer)
<ttx> That's a new point :)
<jiboumans> hi sommer
<ttx> sommer: As discussed, it's good for you to have a forum for us to sync our respective needs, so here you go :)
<sommer> there's been some good discussion on the ubuntu-doc list about new formats
<ScottK> Is the 10.04 server guide available as a PDF?  It came up on #ubuntu-server recently and I didn't know where to point someone.
<sommer> ScottK: there was an issue with the PDF for lucid, but I committed a change yesterday to take care of it
<sommer> it just now needs to be rebuilt and uploaded to h.u.c
<ttx> sommer: do you have a spec covering new sections that you want written for Maverick ?
<ScottK> sommer: Great.  Thanks.
<sommer> ttx: yep, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docs/+spec/server-maverick-serverguide-updates
<ttx> hm, I don't think that one can be picked up by our work items system, since it's not the same project
<ttx> sommer: so you'll have to use that lot in the meeting to shout when you need outside help.
<sommer> oh, should I change it?
<jiboumans> ttx: would be great to have all server related blueprints in the WI tracker though
<jiboumans> wonder how we can do that
<ttx> jiboumans: it needs to be an Ubuntu spec
<ttx> jiboumans: then if targeted against Maverick, work items assigned to team members would show up in our tracker
<mathiaz> can't the spec be just reattached to the ubuntu project?
<sommer> if not I can recreate it
<ttx> I doubt that's possible
<mathiaz> or recreate it
<ttx> sommer: that would be great. Then you can have work items like "write draft of section x" and assign that to someone, and keep "Review draft of X" on your plate
<jiboumans> that'd work very well indeed
<ttx> [ACTION] sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to try to move server doc spec to Ubuntu specs
<jiboumans> next is you ttx on papercuts
<ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick Papercuts: Start of the alpha-2 round (ttx)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick Papercuts: Start of the alpha-2 round (ttx)
<sommer> what's the project name?
<ttx> sommer: "Ubuntu" ?
<sommer> doh, sooo simple :)
<ttx> So in order to have a full alpha-2 round for papercuts, I anticipated the review and prepared the round in advance. I'll call for nominations today, and open nominations (until next week's meeting where we'll decide on the bugs for the round)
<ttx> delaying one more week would jeopardize the length of that subcycle
<jiboumans> ttx: that warrants a seperate mail to u-devel/-server right?
<ttx> jiboumans: yes. I start with a blog post, then tomorrow an email... Then I would appreciate some echo on blogs of yours
<ttx> I already know Yokozar will echo it, since he was in that UDS room
<ttx> any other blogger with a large audience is welcome (kirkland ?)
<ttx> We already have a few candidates from previous leftovers
<ttx> Note that this time, you can nominate minor features as well !
<zul> minor features like what?
<ivoks> like utf8 in mysql by default?
<ttx> The method is the same, mark as affecting the "server-papercuts" project
<ttx> like things that would impact behavior, and that we refused because of FeatureFreeze during the lucid cycle
<ttx> ivoks: a papercut needs to be non-conflicting
<ttx> and simple to implement :)
<SpamapS> otherwise we'd have to call it a paper stab
<ivoks> it's simple alright
<ttx> We'll review the nominations next week to come up with a list of candidates
<ttx> and start the subcycle on Jun 2nd
<ttx> to end it end of week before the Alpha2 release
 * sommer heh stab
<ttx> questions ?
<ttx> we'll need everyone's help in fixing those papercuts btw
<ttx> choosing them is the easiest part of the job :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review (mathiaz)
 * mathiaz opens up the links
<mathiaz> two bugs nominated for lucid:
<mathiaz> bug 567179
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 567179 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu) "Update mysql-server-5.1 hangs up" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567179
<mathiaz> bug 583542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 583542 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh server doesn't start when irrelevant filesystems are not available" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583542
<zul> ubottu: im testing bug 567179
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<zul> stupid bot
<zul> i have it fixed for maverick (567179) just need to get people in lucid to test it
<mathiaz> I think both bugs are not ready for SRU as of now
<ttx> mathiaz: ack
<mathiaz> as they still need to more information to get to the triage state
<mathiaz> I'm going to decline them
<mathiaz> any bugs worth fixing from http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html ?
<smoser> there is no fix for 583542 available
<zul> 577165
<mathiaz> smoser: ok
<mathiaz> bug 577165
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 577165 in vsftpd (Ubuntu) "Typo in etc/init/vsftpd.conf" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/577165
<jiboumans> bug 573206 sounds important enough
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 573206 in mysql-dfsg-5.1 (Ubuntu Maverick) "[SRU] upstart script does not load AppArmor profile" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/573206
<zul> jiboumans: its already fixed in lucid
<ttx> jiboumans: it's already done apparently. Zul's magic
<jiboumans> zul++ also way ahead of me
 * jiboumans notes that being in UTC+8 means he's behind the times
<RoAkSoAx> lol :P
<mathiaz> I've written up the Spec for the updated sru-process in maverick:
<mathiaz> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-maverick-sru-process
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerMaverickSruProcess
<ttx> ooo, a graph !
<mathiaz> so if you wanna comment on what's coming up please head there
<mathiaz> and there are shiny diagrams as wel :)
<zul> wohoo diagrams!
<ttx> mathiaz: now I know why you don't have time to write user stories. Too busy doing shiny diagrams
<mathiaz> ttx: :)
<mathiaz> ttx: it's an experiment:
<mathiaz> a picture is worth a thousand words!
<jiboumans> agreed there
<RoAkSoAx> +1
<ttx> now you need to automate paperboard -> dia transition
<mathiaz> that's all from me on the SRU front
<mathiaz> ttx: I've got some ideas there :)
<mathiaz> anything else?
<mathiaz> on the SRU front?
<jiboumans> smoser, you had something on ami/api tools?
<smoser> yes.
<smoser> seeking feedback.
<smoser> ec2-ami-tools and ec2-api-tools are multiverse packages
<smoser> they are updated by amazon to expose new features (or regions) on occasion
<smoser> in the past we have provided backports of these via a ppa
<mathiaz> smoser: one option is to push them to -backports
<smoser> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/+archive/ec2-tools
<mathiaz> smoser: they may actually be SRUable as well
<smoser> right. so 3 options:
<smoser> a. SRU
<smoser> b.
<smoser>  backports
<smoser> c. ppa backports
<smoser> we've been doing c.
<ttx> (a) needs a TB derogation
<mathiaz> smoser: under the exception that they're useless (?) if the network service changes
<smoser> well they're never useless.
<mathiaz> smoser: landscape-client is an example of package that an SRU exception
<smoser> the old tools work, they just do not expose new functionality
<mathiaz> smoser: right
<mathiaz> smoser: so -backports is the best option
<smoser> is there a reason to prefer -backports over ppa ?
<mathiaz> smoser: -backports are easily discoveralbe
<mathiaz> smoser: whereas PPA are less discoverable
<smoser> i question it because there is a fair amount of use of the ppa, and education to use backports instead would be needed.
<mathiaz> smoser: there is an option in the sources list manager to enable backports
<mathiaz> smoser: and I think there -backports options in sources.list are also set but commented
<jiboumans> we do have the option to enable the ppa on EC2 images ourselves
<mathiaz> smoser: right - if it's common knowledge to enable the PPA then I'd stick with the existing option
<SpamapS> In my brief time running Ubuntu server I've never used thes ources list manager.. but I've definitely setup a few PPA's to pull from
<smoser> jiboumans, well.. tools are in multiverse, they're not in our images by design.
<mathiaz> smoser: if the use of the PPA is advertised and documented then I'd stick with the PPA
<smoser> mathiaz, if backports is the right thing, then i think we should go that route.
<SpamapS> can the server guide be updated with that?
<mathiaz> smoser: it seems that the use of the PPA is already common knowledge
<ScottK> smoser: I've got no problem pushing the updated ec2 tools in backports.
<ttx> since this derived from the SRU process discussion, let's move to
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open discussion
<mathiaz> smoser: so I wouldn't change that
<mathiaz> smoser: and as mentioned by ScottK we could publish the package to both -backports and a PPA
<ScottK> mathiaz: Generally I think it's a problem to push people to use third party repositories when it's not really required.
<mathiaz> smoser: it may add some overhad though
<smoser> mathiaz, somewhat common knowledge.  googling probably finds it, but it finds backports also.
<smoser> i am leaning towards re-education
<smoser> backports is a common place for backports
<mathiaz> ScottK: right - IMO the main issue here is how discoverable the repository to use is (be it a PPA or a -backports)
<SpamapS> smoser: that is almost t-shirt worthy
 * ttx leans towards reeducation too
<ScottK> smoser: You know the backports procedure?
<Daviey> o/
<smoser> i can read
<smoser> :)
<ttx> SpamapS: we have a "quotes" page.
<ScottK> OK.  Ping me if you have questions.
<smoser> yeah. thanks ScottK
<jiboumans> so... open discussion? :)
<ScottK> I'd like to talk about package stack names.
<SpamapS> I like the idea of having them in both
<mathiaz> smoser: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<ScottK> So far we have mail and cluster stack.
<SpamapS> The PPA will get them right away.. backports upon completion of the process. Seems useful.
<jiboumans> ScottK: go right ahead
<zul> i like to say that im melting
<ScottK> In mail stack, we're planning on using mail-stack-foo package names.
<ScottK> I think having a general rule of [stackname]-stack-[function] is a good way to go.
<jiboumans> ScottK: i've been following the thread on naming and i'd agree there
<ScottK> I think cluster stack is similar, but not sure.
<sommer> that makes sense to me
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: yes it is similar, though the difference is that in our scenarios we are in need of multiple machine
<ScottK> Since I know you are pushing the idea of more community supported stacks, it seems like a good idea to have a standard naming scheme and have that documented.
<jiboumans> ScottK: it caters to the road of least surprise (as opposed to 'dovefix' which makes sense mostly to those in the know)
<SpamapS> are there other stacks in the pipeline?
<ScottK> SpamapS: Not that I know of, but I know Canonical wants to encourage the concept.
<RoAkSoAx> For Cluster Stack, names I've been thinking of is: cluster-stack-failover and cluster-stack-loadbalancing
<ttx> ScottK: you apparently do not meet any resistance :)
<SpamapS> how do stacks differ from tasks?
<ttx> let's wrap up.
<ScottK> ttx: Could you have someone document this policy?
 * SpamapS will takethe answer offline. :)
<ttx> ScottK: where would you see this policy ? As a server team policy ?
<mcas> the stack packages are virtual packages?
<ttx> ScottK: or something more TB-level ?
<mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase
<mathiaz> ^^ seems like a good place to document that for the time being
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to document (or delegate documentation of ) package stack names
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Next week, same place same time
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:59.
<ttx> Thanks everyone :)
<jiboumans> with a minute to spare
<jiboumans> thanks people
<ScottK> ttx: I was thinking server team policy
<ttx> ScottK: I'll make it so
<ScottK> Thanks.
<legreffier> i heard there was a meeting at 21pm utc
<legreffier> obviously i got the date wrong
<legreffier> oh no it was next week, nevermind!
<Pendulum> legreffier: what sort of meeting?
<legreffier> ubuntu council
<czajkowski> which council
<BlackZ> legreffier: do you mean the membership board?
<BlackZ> (I think yes, since you're there (in the table of the candidates))
<legreffier> yes!
<BlackZ> it's the 1st june
<legreffier> it's next week.
<legreffier> yeah
<BlackZ> at 20:00 UTC
<BlackZ> good luck
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-26
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<barry> hi everybody and welcome to this week's platform foundations meeting
<barry> who's here today?
<ev> hi
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0526
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0526
<mvo> hi
<barry> cjwatson sends his apologies
<mvo> looks like a small meeting :)
<barry> doko, Keybuk: ping
<Keybuk> hey
<Keybuk> in a flame-war on fedora-devel-list
<Keybuk> it's fun ;)
<mvo> about what?
<Keybuk> guess :p
<mvo> heh :)
<barry> :)
<barry> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<barry> order: surbhi, barry, mvo, ev, Keybuk, doko
<barry> but surbhi's not here, so...
<barry> cj bug 545306 (SystemError); cj bug triage and pushed 2.0.1 to PPA (will ask mvo for sponsor upload); wikkid branch review for thumper, implemented packaging branch, blog post; hr goodness; sprint travel; maverick work items; dmb meeting (though my app is deferred until next meeting); foundations-m-python-continuous-integration discussion; quickly python-lib & bug 585617.  eot.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 545306 in computer-janitor (Ubuntu) "computer-janitor-gtk crashed with SystemError in open()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/545306
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 585617 in quickly "quickly should support user defined template paths" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585617
<mvo> did: software-center work (branch merge backlog), update-manager SRU
<mvo> working on: language-selector dbusification, workitems/specs
<mvo> (done)
<Keybuk> Watching and listening back to UDS recordings, and building up notes, etc.
<Keybuk> Begun work on the Upstart 0.10 roadmap, going to be a largish document to pass around.
<Keybuk> Some discussions with Fedora/RH people.
<Keybuk> ~
<doko> pong
<barry> oops, we skipped ev :)
<Keybuk> ev was too slow
<barry> :)
<barry> ev?
<doko> done: eglibc-2.12 merge, gcc-4.3/gdc-4.3 updates, bank holiday, sick day
<doko> --
<ev> performance reviews, helping summer of code student (xnox) get usb-creator into debian, making a new usb disk for the shop, reviewing the new work Michael has done on the installer design spec, hacking on hudson to model the behavior I'm after for remastering CDs with a new ubiquity and testing them on lots of hardware.  Looks like I need to extend the locks-and-latches plugin to support shared locks.
<ev> blocked: installer design spec (partially - I intend to start work on the multilayered debconf today/tomorrow)
<ev> --
<ev> sorry, ZNC disconnect
<barry> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
<ev> oh, and specs of course
<barry> i think there were none?
<ev> I don't recall any
<barry> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
<barry> probably not relevant at this point in the cycle?
<barry> [TOPIC] Farming out tasks that aren't being handled
<MootBot> New Topic:  Farming out tasks that aren't being handled
<barry> nor is that i think...
<barry> [TOPIC] Sponsorship queue
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship queue
<barry> [LINK] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<dholbach> yes, please!
<barry> since i don't have upload rights yet, is there anything i can do to help?  seems like we have a lot in this queue
<dholbach> it'd be nice if everybody spent a bit of time getting stuff off the list that is not appropriate, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews has more info about it
<ScottK> barry: There are more than a few distribute/python-setuptools bugs that could use some attention from someone who understands how it's supposed to work.
<dholbach> barry: if you find something that still needs work, I'm sure somebody on your team can lend you the powers to get it off the list temporarily :)
<mvo> barry: if you have specific items that just need a upload I can do that
<barry> ScottK, dholbach cool thanks.  i'll try to get some of that
<barry> mvo: thanks
<dholbach> awesome!
<dholbach> thanks guys
<barry> anything else on sponsorship?
<barry> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
<barry> ev: how's gsoc going?
<ev> barry: brilliantly
<ev> Dmitrijs has really hit the ground running
<cjwatson> here, sorry I'm late
<barry> awesome!  thanks so much for mentoring the next generation of ubuntu hackers :)
<cjwatson> done: finished writing up specs; dove into merging; added packageset seed permission exceptions
<mvo> my guy (donkult) is also doing great in SoC
<cjwatson> todo: didn't really manage to get started on foundations-m-cd-boot much, except for bringing it up with upstream, so will do some more on that this week
<ev> I've already merged a few branches from him and as mentioned, he's actively working to get usb-creator in Debian.  He's milestoned a console frontend for early next month.
<barry> cjwatson: thanks
<barry> ev: nice; mvo, sorry what is your guy working on again?
<mvo> barry: multiarch support in apt
<barry> rock on
<cjwatson> oh, and alpha-1 next week, so expecting to be plugging away at that
<mvo> but he also worked on general apt stuff, I uploaded apt into debian-experimental with some basic support recently
<mvo> upgrades via lucid->maverick should work now too btw
<mvo> via update-manager
<mvo> and do-release-upgrade
<barry> mvo: very cool, i will try that in a vm today
<barry> mvo: what kind of stuff is he doing to apt?
<ev> mvo: out of curiosity, are you having him write an Ubuntu spec and add work items to the foundations page of the tracker? I've asked Dmitrijs to do that on the theory that it will make him feel like more of a member of Foundations, as we're all working to get below the red line.
<mvo> you need to set /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades to "normal" instead of lts
<barry> mvo: right, thanks, i'd forgotten about that
<mvo> ev: technically he is part of debian, we did a swap with debian for some organisational reason
<ev> ahh
<ev> fair enough :)
<mvo> barry: yeah, its a common thing, I need to fix that so that its more obvious :/
<mvo> ev: :)
<barry> [TOPIC] Good news
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
<mvo> SoC!
<ev> hear hear
<barry> i guess the fact that prague is confirmed is good news too :)
<barry> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ev> Mumble!  Everyone jump on the bandwagon
<ev> So far it's just me, Colin, and rarely Scott in the foundations room
 * barry will try it this week
<barry> but i think i will be lonely later in the day :)
<cjwatson> specs
<Keybuk> ev: the rarely scott is more of a factor that I've spent most of my time listening to uds tapes
<cjwatson> two people have replied to my plea for data so far :)
<cjwatson> which is good but I was hoping for a few more
<Keybuk> and being interrupted by "evan was moved in from root by server" is irritating ;)
<Keybuk> especially since Colin sits so far away from microphones that I have the volume up so loud, that when you move in from root, people down the road know about it
<barry> Keybuk: any good sessions we might have missed that are worth a listen?
<ev> Keybuk: we have the source code to Mumble, donchaknow
<ev> comment that line out
<cjwatson> if you haven't finished yet, please at least send me the list of specs you're working on drafting, so that (a) I can see which ones *nobody* is drafting, and (b) I can make sure they're all targeted to maverick so that they show up on our work items list
<cjwatson> the sooner this gets done, the more accurate the start point on our work items graph can be
<Keybuk> cjwatson: err, I apparently have no specs ;-)
<cjwatson> ?
<cjwatson> I thought there was foundations-m-finish-upstart at least
<Keybuk> there's no spec for that though
<Keybuk> and those I am putting together are on launchpad.net/upstart
<Keybuk> which can't be targeted to maverick
<cjwatson> well, fine, but telling me "zero" is better than not replying to my mail. :-)
<Keybuk> (cause I have to pretend other distros are going to use upstart next cycle :p)
<cjwatson> that way, at least I know
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I'm telling you zero now ;)
<cjwatson> ack
<cjwatson> perhaps we can figure out a way of getting upstart specs onto the WI list
<cjwatson> it really helps me to see what's going on for everyone
<Keybuk> yes, I have on my todo to talk to pitti to get the work items included in that list
<Keybuk> e.g. whether pitti can just include the upstart 0.10 milestone as a maverick one
<cjwatson> if you're happy for that to be done, I can probably take care of it
<Keybuk> oh, definitely happy for that
<cjwatson> are all the specs you're planning on working on targeted for 0.10 already, then?
<Keybuk> no
<Keybuk> none of them exist yet
<Keybuk> roadmap first, roadmap produces specs
<cjwatson> ok
<Keybuk> roadmap I intend to be finished with tomorrow/friday
<cjwatson> tell me when you have something so that I have test cases? :-)
<Keybuk> and then send that round people, to get feedback
<Keybuk> while I write up the initial specs for those parts of the roadmap that are doable for maverick
<Keybuk> kk
<barry> question for y'all: in the future does it make more sense to just update the meeting wiki page with your activity reports yourself, or should we still send them into the meeting chair?
<Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/upstart/+milestone/0.10.0
<Keybuk> ^ is the milestone
<cjwatson> ok
<Keybuk> sorry, I just squeed myself with the 0.6.6 codename again
<barry> oh well, anyway :)
<cjwatson> barry: I don't mind either way
<barry> [TOPIC] next week's chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  next week's chair
<cjwatson> as long as it gets done
<barry> cjwatson: yeah, maybe it's better that the chair can ride herd
<barry> any volunteers for next week?
 * ev raises hand
<barry> ev: thanks!
<barry> and if there's nothing else, that's it!
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:36.
<ev> thanks!
<barry> thanks everybody!
<barry> (send those activity reports :)
<mvo> thanks
 * ara waves
 * fader_ waves.
<pedro_> hello!
<sbeattie> hey!
<Paddy_NI> Is there any documentation about what is typically covered by the Q&A team?
<ara> Paddy_NI, qa.ubuntu.com will point you to the right place
<hggdh> ~o~
<Paddy_NI> Thank you
<fader_> Paddy_NI: Not sure if you're looking for "Questions and Answers" or "Quality Assurance" -- this meeting is for the latter :)
<thekorn> hey Q&A team
<Paddy_NI> ah
<Paddy_NI> :)
<fader_> Though we're certainly happy to help with QA Q&A :)
<ara> OK, let's get started
<hggdh> hi thekorn
<ara> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is ara.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ara> Agenda, as usual, at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<ara> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<ara> # Bug Day status -- pvillavi
<ara> # Results of the meetings time poll - ara
<ara> # Blueprints update -- all
<ara> # Laptop Testing wiki cleanup - ara
<ara> # Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<ara> # Selection of new chair - ara
<ara> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-05-19):
<sbeattie> * lucid: 20 new packages in -proposed (abiword, chromium-browser, exo, gnome-screensaver, gtk+2.0, gtkmm2.4, hamster-applet, librsvg, netbook-launcher, netbook-meta, openssh, pm-utils-powersave-policy, postgresql-8.4, pygtksourceview, python-apt, rhythmbox, telepathy-butterfly, totem, vinagre, virtuoso-opensource)
<sbeattie>      and 11 packages pushed to -updates (apt, bareftp, edubuntu-artwork, glibmm2.4, jockey, pangomm, php5, rcmdr, software-center, unetbootin, xsane)
<sbeattie> * karmic: 2 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.4, virtualbox-ose)
<sbeattie>       and 1 package pushed to -updates (kdepimlibs)
<sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (postgresql-8.3, virtualbox-ose)
<sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (sun-java6)
<sbeattie> * hardy: 2 new packages in -proposed (apache2, postgresql-8.3)
<sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (postgresql-8.1)
<sbeattie> Thanks to Wolfgang Kufner, Takkat, Charlie Kravetz (charlie-tca), Irihapeti, Dietmar, slumbergod, Andreas Wenning (a|wen), Leo, Filip Palm, Jens Langner, Jean-FranÃ§ois Fortin Tami (nekohayo), areskz, Steffen Krumbholz, Pirouette CacahuÃ¨te, Thorsten Reinbold, Maciej BÄcÅawski (Hakkatuka), Jonathan Thomas (JontheEchidna), NumÃ©rigraphe, Hagen FÃ¼rstenau, Scott Kitterman (ScottK), Jan Schneider (yunosh), JoÃ£o Neves, and othe
<sbeattie> rs for testing SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> Nice to see the amount of SRUs for lucid calming down a bit.
<ScottK> Don't worry.  Working on more.
<hggdh> heh
<pedro_> heh
<sbeattie> ScottK: I'd never doubt you!
<sbeattie> Plenty still out there for people to test: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<fader_> Job security ;)
<sbeattie> (that's all I have unless there's any questions)
<ara> OK, let's move on. Thanks sbeattie!
<ara> sbeattie, before that, I have a question
<ara> sbeattie, is there a place in the wiki where you publish this same report?
<sbeattie> ara: no, but I can.
<ara> well, I don't want to put more work on you, at least it is something people might be interested in
<sbeattie> ara: any particular location you'd like it published?
<ara> somewhere under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates ?
<sbeattie> Okay, I thought perhaps under the QATeam somewhere, but that might work as well.
<ara> sbeattie, yes, maybe under QATeam makes more sense and it is easier to find
<ara> sbeattie, a link from SRU won't do any harm, though
<hggdh> ideally, we should link to current/proposed off w.u.c/SRU
<hggdh> and, of course, to thank-yous
 * sbeattie takes an action item
<hggdh> sbeattie: sorry for the additional work...
<ara> [ACTION] sbeattie to create a wiki page of history of SRUs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to create a wiki page of history of SRUs
<ara> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pedro_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pedro_
<pedro_> On Thursday 20 we had a bug day based on Update Manager:
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100520
<pedro_> ~41 bugs were triage. Thanks a bunch to our bug day heroes:  txwikinger, micahg, kamusin, mistrynitesh, brunogirin, jibel, yofel, paulduf, odd-rationale, gregbair and effie-jayx
<pedro_> you guys rock ;-)
<pedro_> Tomorrow our bug day target will be the Epiphany Browser
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100527
<pedro_> There's plenty of bugs waiting to be triaged, so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us, we'll be glad to help you to start
<ara> pedro_, let's hope those bugs don't get triage to the epiphany package ;-)
<pedro_> as always the bug day is going to happen on #ubuntu-bugs ;-)
<pedro_> ara, lol, yeah hope that too ;-)
<bdmurray> maybe looking at epiphany bugs and making sure they are not epiphany-browser bugs would be a good idea
<pedro_> nibel already sent a notice to the bugsquad mailing list about that
<hggdh> Nigel, you meant?
<pedro_> bdmurray, good idea indeed, i'll put that in the wiki page
<pedro_> that's all from here ara
<qense> hello
<ara> pedro_, cool, thanks!
<ara> qense, hi :)
<ara> [TOPIC] Results of the meetings time poll - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Results of the meetings time poll - ara
<ara> As you know, we conducted a poll to ask for a different time for this meeting to rotate every other week
<ara> The most voted hour was 19:00 UTC, with 17 votes
<qense> Which confirms this time is a very good one.
<qense> wait
<qense> CEST != UTC
<ara> qense, we are at 17:00UTC ;-)
<charlie-tca> they want it two hours later
<qense> whoops
<ara> From now on we will be rotating this meeting one week at 17:00 UTC, the following at 19:00 UTC
<fader_> That makes it even worse for you, ara :/
<ara> fader_, yes, but I have to accommodate to the rest of the ubuntu qa team!
<ara> fader_, and it is every other week, I will survive (I hope)
<fader_> :)
 * fader_ should have stuffed the ballot box.
<ara> the chair of the meeting (who also rotates) will send the reminder a couple of days before to the mailing list
<sbeattie> ara: have we confirmed 1900 UTC is available?
<ara> sbeattie, very good point, indeed
<ara> sbeattie, we haven't!
 * ara reads fridge.ubuntu.com
<pedro_> fridge says Edubuntu Meeting at 1900 UTC on Wed
<qense> aww
<ara> that's unfortunate
<ara> what do you guys recommend doing?
<ara> stgraber, how often do you have edubuntu meetings? it is every week? every other week?
<fader_> If it goes back to a vote again, I suggest that we have only available slots to vote on
<fader_> Or we beat up stgraber and steal his slot ;)
<charlie-tca> move it to 20:00 ?
<qense> that was the second choice, wasn't it?
<sbeattie> I guess I'd like to understand why so many people can't make the current timeslot but can make it 2-3 hours later? conflict with work?
<charlie-tca> 2000 was not a choice. it went by two hour increments
<sbeattie> (but it's probably better to ask on the mailing list)
<ara> I guess it is a matter of work conflicts
<ara> who can take the action to talk with stgraber and check how often they have meetings?
<bdmurray> What is the advantage to having the meeting here?
<qense> good question
<ara> bdmurray, the bot?
<qense> I mean, it's not like #ubuntu-quality is too busy to use.
<sbeattie> or are most of the people that were available at 1900 also available for the current time?
<bdmurray> bingo!
<ara> so, options are:
<ara> 1) revote again with only available slots
<ara> 2) talk to stgraber and check if they have meetings every week or not
<ara> 3) install a meeting bot in #ubuntu-quality and move the meeting there
<ara> what do you guys think?
<bdmurray> well I'd say 3 is plan B for 2
<hggdh> +1 with Brian
<qense> bdmurray, +1
<hggdh> we go 2 and, if needed, 3
<ara> +1
<hggdh> will there be a vote (official)?
<ara> hggdh, on what?
<hggdh> new times ;-)
<qense> this
<hggdh> otherwise, I would say this is done
<ara> I think we can move on, but who take the action on talking with stgraber?
<hggdh> I will
<ara> hggdh, thanks!
 * hggdh thinks its time to go and really do something ;-)
<ara> [ACTION] hggdh to talk with stgraber about Edubuntu meetings frequency
<MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to talk with stgraber about Edubuntu meetings frequency
<ara> [TOPIC] Blueprints update -- all
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints update -- all
<ara> OK, anyone wants to give updates on their blueprints?
<qense> pedro_: How are the responses from mentors and students going?
<qense> Blueprint: qa-maverick-mentoring-program
<pedro_> qense, just waiting an extra day for getting more responses, but so far so good
<qense> pedro_: Many people wanting to stay?
<pedro_> qense, yes, so far we only have 1 person who decided to step down and 1 update (ogasawara->JFo)
<qense> ok
<qense> good
<pedro_> qense, i'll be sending the updates by the end of this week
<qense> By the way, is everyone here familiar with the changes we decided for the Bug Squad's mentoring programme?
<qense> pedro_: great, thanks
<ara> qense, a brief summary will be nice :)
<qense> the session at the UDS was only attended by hggd, pedro_, two other guys whose name I can't remember and I.
<qense> ara: OK
<qense> Well, the first thing we said was that it was clear the mentoring programme wasn't exactly working perfectly. We had some mentors on the list, and there were some students on that list as well, but no one was really doing much.
<qense> Students wouldn't show up after someone would have accepted them, mentors rarely did accept students.
<qense> We saw that it was needed to get some people that would do the assignment of students because otherwise it would not happen.
<qense> We decided on a mentorship 'admins' group, consisting of hggdh, pedro_, charlie-tca and myself (for optimal timezone coverage), which would be reponsible for assigning students to mentors.
<qense> It would then be up to the mentors to do the rest.
<ara> qense, nice, it reminds me to the ubuntu-packaging-coordinators team
<qense> They would also have to give a monthly status update during either one of the weekly Bug Squad meetings, or via the mailing list.
<hggdh> BTW, we would still like to get an admin from the Asia/Pacific TZ, in order to cover all TZs
<qense> good point from hggdh
<qense> Now pedro_ has sent mails to all current students and mentors asking if they still want to get mentored or mentor and we're waiting for their response.
<qense> Like pedro_ said we will wait for a bit longer and then update the wiki page and clean up.
<qense> New, fresh start
<qense> the wiki page should only containt he current mentors witht heir current, accepted students.
<qense> THE END
<ara> qense, :)
<ara> qense, thanks!
<qense> Any questions?
<hggdh> qense, good summary, thank you
<pedro_> qense, thanks for the summary ;-)
<qense> you're welcome, thank you :)
<ara> I will talk a bit about qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker
<ara> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-improve-iso-tracker
<ara> we need to fix and improve the ISO tracker a bit in order to fill our requirements while we wait for the new "Results Tracker"
<ara> I know, it is Drupal, it is PHP, it is ugly
<ara> But... if you know how to code that ugly language called PHP and feel like contributing, let me know :)
<fader_> Why all the PHP hate?  It's not like it's perl ;)
<ara> Right now I have assigned all the tasks to myself, and I will be happy to reassign some of them :-)
 * hggdh hides
<ara> Write PHP! Help the ISO tracker! PHP is fun! :D
 * txwikinger programs PHP everyday
 * hggdh looks, full of hope
<txwikinger> what do you guys need?
<ara> txwikinger, you're hired!
<ara> txwikinger, I'll send you an email with the details, and you decide :-)
<txwikinger> ok. ara
<fader_> ara: Some of them look pretty easy for even beginners at PHP, e.g. bug 578349
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578349 in Ubuntu QA Website "[ISO Tracker] bug number input field doesn't trim spaces" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578349
<ara> fader_, yes
<qense> Isn't there actually a trim() function?
<ara> qense, yes, yes, you can get that one :P
<fader_> Darn it, that was my secret weapon!
<txwikinger> qense: yes
<ara> any other blueprint?
<ara> OK, moving on, then
<ara> [TOPIC] Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<MootBot> New Topic:  Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
<ara> mmm, it looks like awbancroft is not around
<ara> I'll send him an email to see if wants to add the topic for next week's meeting
<ara> [TOPIC] ara to send an email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  ara to send an email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
<ara> [ACTION]  ara to send an email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
<MootBot> ACTION received:   ara to send an email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
<ara> that's better :-)
<qense> Otherwise we'd have to discuss that mail.
<qense> here
<ara> [TOPIC] Selection of new chair
<MootBot> New Topic:  Selection of new chair
<ara> So, who wants to be the chair of next meeting?
 * ara sees how people are hiding
<qense> I'll be on an island next week, without a computer.
<qense> for real
<sbeattie> ara: I can do it.
<ara> sbeattie, thanks :-)
 * hggdh unhides self
 * charlie-tca unhides too
<ara> OK, that was the agenda for today. Any other topics?
<qense> ara: The laptop testing wiki thing was discussed before I remembered this meeting and joined the channel?
<sbeattie> I assume for next week, we'll keep it at 1700 UTC, unless we get resolution on the dubuntu conflict?
<sbeattie> err, edubuntu conflict?
<hggdh> sbeattie: I think this is a good approach
<ara> sbeattie, +1
<qense> agreed
<ara> qense, no, the person in charge of that work (primes2h) is not here
<ara> qense, we will get back to that one in following meetings
<qense> ok
<ara> Anything else?
<ara> going once...
<ara> going twice...
<ara> OK, I think we can finish the meeting
<ara> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:50.
<hggdh> thank you, ara
<sbeattie> thanks ara!
<ara> Thanks everyone!
<qense> thank you ara!
<fader_> Thanks all
<bladernr__> thanks ara, that was a much larger meeting than I've seen previously
<bladernr__> thanks all too
 * stgraber waves
 * bencrisford waves back
 * highvoltage jumps in the channel and makes big waves
<alkisg> Hi all
<bencrisford> alkisg: hello :)
<highvoltage> everyone feeling good?
<bencrisford> the weather is getting brighter, and despite that im naturally happy today for some reason!  im feeling great! :)
<alkisg> Yup, everything fine here
<highvoltage> great.
<highvoltage> let's jump right in
<highvoltage> here are the blueprints from UDS:
<highvoltage> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-maverick-edubuntu-community
<stgraber> a good > 30C outside here, /me loves AC
<highvoltage> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-maverick-edubuntu-ubiquity
<highvoltage> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-maverick-edubuntu-packages
<highvoltage> last week I did some triaging on what specs actually need to be written from them
<highvoltage> but I keep changing my mind and keep going into a panic for no good reason :)
<highvoltage> I'm just going to past some of it here and perhaps we can discuss it
<highvoltage> and- maybe we can get some more people involved in doing it
<highvoltage>     *  NEEDS-SPEC: Edubuntu advocacy- Forums for teachers on website, Facebook group?, feed on website for teacher blogs, create mailing list for educators (discontinue ubuntu-education), some kind of forum for teachers to provide edu-tips
<highvoltage>     * COUNCIL: Approve LP Team changes
<highvoltage>     * NEEDS-SPEC: Edubuntu Stable PPA
<highvoltage>     * NEEDS-SPEC: Edubuntu Menu Editor Improvements, get feedback from our users (guadalinex-edu menus) (mgariepy?)
<highvoltage> so that's from the edubuntu-community blueprint
<highvoltage> I'm not sure if we'd have to retro-actively make a new blueprint for each spec since you can only link one spec to a blueprint
<highvoltage> (argh)
<highvoltage> I'm thinking that we probably need more of a to-do list than specs for our community items
<highvoltage> any thoughts?
<sbalneav> Present
<highvoltage> yay
<stgraber> hey sbalneav
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we missed you
<highvoltage> *crickets.wav*
<alkisg> highvoltage: we also need a wiki page for the live ltsp
<alkisg> Lots of people asked for that
<alkisg> And I really like the idea of the stable ppa
<highvoltage> alkisg: I noticed, I answered some questions on some bugs about it and also the questions on the list.
<alkisg> (and also an accompanying testing ppa)
<sbalneav> Yeah, the live ltsp seems to work, but I've seen some issues with people not being able to INSTALL ltsp
<sbalneav> from the dvd.  Do we know what's up with that?
<highvoltage> so, we currently have a Roadmap page on the wiki that we could probably use more, should I make our community items to-do list items there?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: we haven't received a bug report / list message about it yet
<highvoltage> sbalneav: could you perhaps ellaborate on some of those issues?
<sbalneav> I'll dig up the list messages I've seen.
<highvoltage> ah, on the LTSP list?
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> I think that's where they were
<highvoltage> I haven't been paying good attention there lately so I'll go look
<highvoltage> I remember seeing one message there from someone who tried to start ltsp-live on two different interfaces, but iirc that was all
<highvoltage> sbalneav: does LTSP upstream use LP for bugs or its own bug tracker?
<highvoltage> (it uses LP, I know that, sorry my brain doesn't want to brain)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> My brain *never* brains.
<sbalneav> so don't feel bad.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: would be great to encourage them to file a bug on it if they want to, I get the LTSP bugmail at least
<sbalneav> ok, will do.
<sbalneav> anyone had a chance yet to dig into the updated xexit in my ppa?
<highvoltage> ok, about those blueprints and specifications, I'll send a summary to the list then for feedback, doesn't seem like anyone wants to discuss it tonight :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: how does it work?
<highvoltage> you say it's a lot lighter than the older tools that did the same thing?
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> it's a small C program that basically installs an X onerror handler
<sbalneav> as well as launch a thread to keep pinging the display.
<sbalneav> when the display dissapears, it runs a script.
<sbalneav> which just searches /etc/Xexit.d, and executes any scripts in there (run-parts type script).
<sbalneav> I can log in with a thin client, yank the power cord, and all user processes dissapear in 15 seconds.
<sbalneav> alkis was looking for something better than gnome-watchdog, so I coded this up.
<stgraber> interesting, the ltsp-cluster accountmanager does the job for us, but it's clearly a nice thing for erveryone else ;)
<highvoltage> oh cool, I like that you can put scripts in there
<alkisg> sbalneav: it'd be nice to have this upstream, maybe as an lts.conf option...
<stgraber> alkisg: that's to be run on the server side, so unless upstream changed it's ideas, it shouldn't be part of LTSP as we try not to require any additional component on the server side (other than SSH that's)
<highvoltage> I was actually going to ask whether it's suitable for including in Edubuntu, but if it would go into upstream that would probably be simpler
<sbalneav> alkisg: Well, the only reason I *WOULDN'T* want it as part of LTSP is that even on the console, gnome/kde leave "droppings" around when you log out.
<sbalneav> so I'm thinking it might be handy as a standalone package, but I'm easy.
<sbalneav> and cheap.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: if you have some time over the next few weeks we could get it into universe
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you've already had lots of packaging practise so it shouldn't take too long :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I guess something like xexit could fall under edubuntu-dev once it's in the archives? then sbalneav would be able to update it quite easily
<alkisg> ...and we could backport it to the edubuntu stable ppa for lucid ;)
<stgraber> I guess so
<highvoltage> that would be a nice package for the stable ppa indeed
 * Lns rushes in
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I checked the ltsp list and couldn't find those messages, but if you do please pass them along
<Lns> sbalneav: sounds like an awesome addition :) thank you! stgraber: how does the ltsp-cluster accountmanager differ in its operation from xexit?
 * alkisg notes that it'd be nice if some of the cluster functionality could also work in single server environments...
<highvoltage> sbalneav: the ltsp installer currently is quite simplistic, for the one that's going to be embedded in ubiquity we'd ideally want options to configure networking nicely and things like bridging and bonding. not 100% sure exactly how nice we'll get this for maverick, but I do think we can make some good progress at least
<highvoltage> slow meeting tonight :)
<bencrisford> yep
<bencrisford> :)
<highvoltage> well, is there anything else or shall we adjourne and continue anything else in #edubuntu?
<Lns> what's wrong with adding functionality server-side for stuff like xexit? Sounds like a totally sane addition to me.
<Lns> highvoltage: just that from me ;)
<highvoltage> Lns: well, if adding it to upstream ltsp would break stuff like ltsp-cluster or other scripts and implementations, then it might not be a great idea :)
<highvoltage> Lns: I suppose making it easy to install would be a good start and then we take it from there
<bencrisford> highvoltage: I don't have anything, unless anyone has any ideas regarding marketing materials
<Lns> oh. yeah :) that makes sense. Of course I'm sure if it's a separate package it can just do the whole remove-other-package-thingie that apt likes to do with conflicts
<Lns> bencrisford: what specifically regarding marketing materials? WHat's the status on marketing campaign?
<bencrisford> Lns: just general marketing stuff, because we dont have any, and I think its important that we put some out there
<bencrisford> leaflets to locos, web buttons to people who will wear them on their site, and other stuff.. :)
<Lns> I have some material from a while ago
<Lns> i dunno if it'll help but I can show it to you
<bencrisford> Lns: that would be awesome :)
<bencrisford> there is a bzr branch for the edubuntu-advocacy materials for sharing marketing stuff
<bencrisford> edubuntu advocacy team*
<Lns> oh nice. well we can chat in #edubuntu about that
<highvoltage> we also decided to use the ubuntu-education list for teachers, etc using ubuntu and edubuntu
<highvoltage> the list used to be abandoned but Charles Profitt picked it up
<Lns> honestly sounds like a lot of different places to go for such a small project...jmho!
<Lns> do we need that many different facilities?
<Lns> bencrisford: http://logicalnetworking.net/other/edubuntuposter.png is one thing I had made a while back
<Lns> http://logicalnetworking.net/other/TuxInSchoolComputerLab.png - another one
<highvoltage> Lns: it is, although the need for a platform for non-technical users has been strongly identified
<Lns> highvoltage: platform meaning what, a listserv?
<bencrisford> Lns: Loving the posters!  Nice work :)
<alkisg> Lns, those are cool!
<Lns> bencrisford: also, a shirt I have a few left of and could make more if people want them: http://logicalnetworking.net/other/school-oss-shirt-front.jpg  and http://logicalnetworking.net/other/school-oss-shirt-back.jpg
<Lns> See, I'm good at the visionary stuff..not so good at the programming part ;)
<bencrisford> those are cool! :)
<highvoltage> Lns: listserv, web forums, facebook... it's going to take some experimenting. we basically have to use what educators use, there's a few suggestions that seem good so we'll have to use a bit of trial and error
<Lns> highvoltage: as far as exposure, all of the above is a good idea :) facebook, youtube, even myspace (!!), twitter too
<highvoltage> Lns: cute :)
<Lns> besides the normal list/irc/etc
<highvoltage> Lns: yeah videos are a great way to show off things
<Lns> I have a t-shirt maker in my office building that does it for way cheap. So if you guys have suggestions or artwork you want on shirts, hit me up.
<Lns> You guys have all seen the video i did for ltsp in education right?
<bencrisford> Lns: nope
<alkisg> Yup
<Lns> it's not edubuntu specific, kinda a marketing-y thing for my company but it can be used for whatever. I tried to make it as non-LNS specific as possible
<bencrisford> I love the youtube+twitter ideas :)!
<Lns> k for those who haven't seen it: www.youtube.com/logicalnetworkingnet
<Lns> it's the first/featured video on that chan
<Lns> yeah - twitter would be great to put a feed on front edubuntu.org page
<Lns> makes the site more "live"
<highvoltage> well, that's it for this week's meeting time, thanks for attending!
<Lns> thanks highvoltage et al.
<alkisg> Thanks & bye all
<highvoltage> Lns: the new site will have that, I'll have to put some more pressure on Hedgemadge, she's really great but has been way too busy recently
<stgraber> thanks
<highvoltage> Lns: and I kind of feel bad for having to put more pressure on her, but we really need to replace our old site
<Lns> highvoltage: is she in the middle of it all?
<bencrisford> Lns: love the video :)
<Lns> bencrisford: hehe thanks
<Lns> the guy who produced it actually used to work at google =)
<Lns> one of the benefits of living near silicon valley
<highvoltage> Lns: yep, she needs to tar up the db and some other files she has that's not in bzr
<Lns> that's cool
<Lns> ok i'm gonna hop on #edubuntu
<bencrisford> as am I
<bencrisford> :)
 * highvoltage 3
<bencrisford> highvoltage: you forgot the gong!
<highvoltage> *GONG*
<Lns> BWONG...love that china style percussion!
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-27
<humphreybc> mpt: have I missed the UX meeting, or is it starting in half an hour?
<wers> humphreybc, i think, it's starting in half an hour
<humphreybc> ah, good
<hyperair> there hasn't been activity in this channel for over 12 hours in any case =)
<hyperair> er, i think.
<humphreybc> okay
<vish> yummy , meeting today ;)
<humphreybc> vish: I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm :)
<humphreybc> what happened last week?
<humphreybc> have we decided what we're actually meant to be doing yet?
<vish> humphreybc: last week , we all forgot and only aday and godby showed up [iirc , that is what i remember from reading the logs] ;p
<humphreybc> aren't we a productive team
<vish> humphreybc: nah , mpt had mentioned he wont be available and probably all thought no meeting
<wers> yep. that's probably why
<humphreybc> ah
<vish> well thats what i thought :D
<mpt> humphreybc, would you like to give a summary of the UDS usability testing discussion today?
<humphreybc> uuuuuuuum
<humphreybc> I can try, from what I remember. godbyk was in on the session too, he can help :)
<humphreybc> I'm sure between the both of us we'll get through it
<mpt> thanks
<humphreybc> how's your day going Matt
<mpt> sluggishly
<mpt> How's your evening? :-)
<wers> 6 minutes to go
<humphreybc> surprisingly productive
<vish> mpt: hi  , your thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/423525/comments/13  ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 423525 in One Hundred Paper Cuts ""IBus daemon is not started" message unhelpful" [Low,Triaged]
<humphreybc> went into uni and actually finished some labs, which is more than I've got done at home. Uni = more productive, home = more distractions.
<humphreybc> mpt: it appears that half of the design team are on holiday this week
<vish> why is it "input methods" and not "input language" ,  seems more sensible to name it language if all it does is switch languages
<humphreybc> also, mpt, what are you first two favourite activities?
<vish> hehe , didnt know today was "get to know your design team member" day ;p
<mpt> humphreybc, I'll tell David Siegel and Marcus Haslam that they feel like half the team to you. :-)
<ScottK> vish: input methods don't just change language.
<humphreybc> Ivanka's off kayaking then workshopping, David's in the states :P
<humphreybc> David is pretty much half the team anyway. You can tell him I said that. Give him a little ego boost.
<wers> vish, how about input device language?
 * humphreybc <3 the Siegelmeister 
<humphreybc> wers, vish, input language would suffice I think
<vish> ScottK: hmm ,ok. never used the Ibus , that still kinda confuses me :s
<wers> humphreybc, ah yes. i agree
 * ScottK hasn't either being safely monolingual in the language that most of these things are written in.
<mpt> okie dokie
<mpt> Good morning/afternoon/evening people
 * d0od waves at mpt
<wers> mpt to you to :)
<mpt> I see humphreybc, vish, wers, and aday_ are here
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: get out of bed
<vish> :D
<godbyk-android> I'm half awake.
<mpt> No aysiu, mgunes, or thorwil this time
<humphreybc> thorwil's probably eating
<humphreybc> every time I go to talk to him he's off to have a meal or a drink
<vish> just pinged him , he seems away
<aday_> hey all :)
<mpt> So thorwil is to Ubuntu as Brad Pitt is to Ocean's Eleven?
<humphreybc> vish: did his lack of response give you that impression? :P
<vish> mpt: lol!
<humphreybc> mpt: Ah. Very clever.
<mpt> djsiegel is on holiday, and michaelforrest has disappeared to get lunch
<humphreybc> oh well, press on I guess
<humphreybc> do we have an agenda?
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: apparently we're talking about the usability session from UDS
<mpt> I have a few items scribbled down
<mpt> 1. apologies
<mpt> 2.
<mpt> 2. UDS review
<mpt> 2a. usability session (humphreybc and godbyk)
<mpt> 2b. UX advocate project
<humphreybc> I love the numbering
<mpt> 3. follow-up on the heuristic evaluation
<mpt> 4. sketching and storyboarding
<mpt> hi ivanka :-)
<ivanka> hi mpt
<mpt> If anyone would like to discuss anything else, please let me know
<wers> I have something to suggest, if you don't mind. i think we need someone to represent the impaired so we can give a bit more attention to accessibility
<mpt> That's an interesting idea
<humphreybc> I agree!
<mpt> Though there are a wide range of disabilities
<ivanka> wers - there was a session at UDS on that penelope was working on some personas
<wers> i just found out about how important it was in the loco release party i organized. the guy was so passionate about orca
<vish>  hmm , maybe some one like pendulum!
<wers> ivanka, cool
<mpt> ivanka, who's Penelope?
<ivanka> pendulum indeed
<ivanka> penelope = pendulum
<humphreybc> mpt: Penelope, she was in a wheelchair at UDS. Lovely person.
<Pendulum> hi!
<mpt> ah, right
<humphreybc> oh there you are!
<ivanka> hi pendulum
<mpt> Hi Pendulum
<vish> heh , funny how the nicks become more easier than the names :)
<humphreybc> I'd welcome Penelope to the team
<mpt> Pendulum, were these Ubuntu personas in general, or Ubuntu accessibility personas in particular?
<mpt> And are they public anywhere?
<ivanka> mpt I think the personas still need to be worked on
<ivanka> pendulum was talking to charline
<mpt> ok
<mpt> Now, 1. apologies
<ivanka> needless to say, personas will address accessibility issues in the near future
<ivanka> there is a blueprint
<ivanka> which obviously means it will happen ;)
<mpt> obviously
<wers> great
<Pendulum> mpt: the ones we're going to work on are accessibility-related ones specifically
<humphreybc> blueprint = it's set in stone.
<humphreybc> obviously
<Pendulum> but it's only just started so we're still in the "information gathering" stage before creating them
<mpt> ok
<ivanka> that is cool
<aday_> that would be really useful
<mpt> Pendulum, you might be interested in the "Week 1" entries in http://diveintoaccessibility.org/table_of_contents.html
<mpt> They're compelling accessibility personas
<mpt> Meanwhile ... I'm sorry I was not able to run a meeting here last week. I was at the UX London conference. <http://2010.uxlondon.com/>
<aday_> there's a design for a new universal accessibility settings capplet knocking around at the moment, btw: http://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/UniversalAccess
 * humphreybc was sleeping after UDS
<Pendulum> mpt: thanks will look at them :)
<Pendulum> btw, once they are all done, they will be public (and we're going to be aiming to get them out all over the place :) )
<mpt> great
<humphreybc> UDS review?
<wers> game
<mpt> I learnt lots of cool stuff. Slides from a  few of the sessions that are relevant to what we're doing: <http://www.slideshare.net/stephenpa/the-art-science-of-seductive-interactions>, <http://www.umsec.umn.edu/events/Code-Freeze-2010/RWAUED>, <http://whitneyhess.com/blog/creating-a-culture-of-ux/>
<mpt> 2. UDS review
<mpt> ivanka, vish, humphreybc, and I were at UDS
<mpt> but not all at the same sessions
<mpt> humphreybc, godbyk-android, there was a session on usability testing and reporting. Would you like to summarize that for us?
<mpt> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-ubuntu-usability
<humphreybc> ivanka was there too :)
<humphreybc> Ummm what did we talk about. We have a lot of notes.
 * ivanka is being spoken to by a real human which is distracting
<humphreybc> Charline presented some usability findings from recent Ubuntu Lucid testing
<humphreybc> we then talked about ways to usability test, what you should and shouldn't do in a testing environment
<humphreybc> and then we talked about the method of gathering statistics using GTK
<humphreybc> We also had a look at Mozilla test pilot
<humphreybc> how they gather information from Firefox
<humphreybc> And we decided we'd experiment with Shotwell
<humphreybc> ie, try to grab statistics from Shotwell
<humphreybc> I have to create a project for this... still thinking of a cool name.
<mpt> Naming, the most difficult part of any project
 * wers is googling Shotwell
<humphreybc> absolutely
<humphreybc> godbyk, can you add anything? you were there... remotely
<godbyk> Sure.
 * humphreybc has a really, rather shocking memory
<godbyk> The gist of the idea is that, in addition to collecting qualitative usability data from testing in the lab, we could also collect some more quantitative data automatically using a daemon that runs on people's computers.
<humphreybc> yeah, that
<mpt> wers, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html
<wers> mpt, thanks
<godbyk> For instance, there was a discussion about workspaces on the Ayatana mailing list a while back.
<wers> godbyk, that sounds cool.how do you collect usability data in the lab?
 * vish notices that mpt, nowadays , quotes more and more omg posts ;p
<godbyk> Some questions we could answer automatically are: how many workspaces do people have set up? how many workspaces do people use?  how many windows per workspace, on average? when do people switch to using a new workspace?
<wers> months ago, we were discussing the creation of a testing suite upstream http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/UsabilityTestingSuite
<wers> the project isnt moving now. i dont know if there's something similar going on. i definitely have a plan of working on it again, though
<godbyk> wers: Cool. It looks like that would be useful for recording usability tests in a lab.
<vish> wers: yeah , what happened to that? iirc ivanka was leading something similar on lp ?
<humphreybc> hey look, Ivanka's name appears on that page
<godbyk> This daemon I'm proposing would collect more statistical data.
<godbyk> Here's Mozilla's Test Pilot plugin for Firefox: https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
<wers> godbyk, yep :)
<wers> vish, yes. it's screenie if we're talking about the same thing
<godbyk> They've done a few studies so far: menu item usage survey, a couple tab surveys, etc.
<vish> wers: yup , the same
<mpt> So, apart from the name, is the main blocker finding someone to implement it so any program running on Ubuntu can hook into it?
<humphreybc> mpt: something like that, yep
<mpt> Ok, is there a design spec for "here's what we'd like it to do"?
<humphreybc> not really, aside from that wiki page that's floating around somewhere
<godbyk> mpt: I think it would help if we established a test/survey we'd like to tackle first. And that'll give us an idea of what code we need to write.
<humphreybc> we need to flesh it out some more and have a look at GTK I spose
<ivanka> we had all this as notes from the uds session
<aday_> wasn't mago supposed to do something like this?
<aday_> or is that different?
<godbyk> aday_: mago?
<aday_> http://live.gnome.org/DesktopTesting
<aday_> and https://launchpad.net/mago
<ivanka> [charlinepoirier] write-up a clear how-to for setting up and conducting  qualitative research: TODO
<ivanka> [ivanka][godbyk] write-requirements up: first research and then  technical: TODO
<ivanka> [humphreybc] create a launchpad project for this: TODO
<ivanka> [sladen] contribute to statistics gathering policy document: TODO
<ivanka> [ivanka] to investigate a specific application to test this out on first  (maybe shotwell?): TODO
<mpt> ^ Those are from the UDS session, ivanka tells me
<humphreybc> yea
<humphreybc> they're our work items
<humphreybc> I get off fairly easy
<humphreybc> that's nice :)
<ivanka> humphreybc: we can change that :-)
<humphreybc> ivanka: you would!
<godbyk> aday_: It looks like mago is for running tests against the software using the at-spi stuff.
<godbyk> aday_: The software I'm proposing would passively watch what the user is doing with their software -- how they're using it.
<humphreybc> Project Big Brother.
<ivanka> like ingimp
<ivanka> Big Brother is not going to engender support
<wers> Would you suggest pursuing the Usability Testing Suite or is mago already sufficient for the need?
<humphreybc> That's what I should call it
<mpt> wers, they're completely different tasks.
<godbyk> wers: I think it's something that could be used in conjunction with the Usability Testing Suite, but it should be a separate project, as it's intended to run on people's computers when they're at home (i.e., in their normal home/work environments).
<wers> mpt, godbyk thanks. i'll pursue it then
<wers> if anyone else is interested, feel free to join us :)
<mpt> ok, so godbyk, is there anything that we can help with for organizing this? Or is it just a matter of you and humphreybc getting time to do those work items?
<humphreybc> I'll spend more time thinking about a name
<humphreybc> and will create the project very soon :)
<godbyk> I need to get some time to go through my work items. I'll write up a better description of what I'd like to do.
<godbyk> If ivanka would like to use this in conjunction with some particular software that she's testing, let me know, and I'll make sure we get code in there to handle that.
<mpt> Once there's a clear, self-contained, single-page description of what you're planning (is there a server component? how would people turn it on and off? etc), it'll be much easier to publicize it and get help with the implementation.
<mpt> hi thorwil
<godbyk> mpt: Agreed.
<thorwil> hi!
<humphreybc> Software Sources > Statistics?
<humphreybc> thorwil: back from lunch?
<ivanka> godbyk: I think we go with shotwell and don't you have most of a one-pager that you used to start talking to me in the first place?
<thorwil> humphreybc: no, from a client ;p
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/usabilty-testing-gtk ?
<ivanka> + this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-ubuntu-usability
<godbyk> ivanka: okay.  if you have any write-ups on the testing protocol you're using for shotwell, I'd love to take a look at them.
<mpt> cool
<godbyk> ivanka: There's a wiki page where I did a short brain dump.  I'll clean it up, though.
<mpt> Shall we move on?
<humphreybc> mpt: yes
<wers> humphreybc, that looks cool
<mpt> 2b. UX advocate project
 * mpt just realizes he's totally not using MootBot 
<humphreybc> mpt: meh
<aday_> some developments upstream on this one
<mpt> At UDS there was also a discussion about having UX advocates for individual upstream projects
<humphreybc> ohh this is David's thing
<mpt> ivanka, aday_, would you like to talk about that? I was there only a small part of that session
<ivanka> yes and we are all keen
<godbyk> There's been some discussion on the gnome-usability list about the UX advocates.
<ivanka> yes, I saw it
<aday_> here's the gnome usability list thread: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2010-May/msg00006.html
<aday_> there's been some good discussion on that list
<humphreybc> it's just a matter of spreading the word I guess
<humphreybc> and gathering some magical list of all these advocates from each project
<aday_> me and andreas nilsson are planning to have a bof on the topic at guadec
<aday_> that said, there are some serious obstacles to overcome. nothing's going to happen overnight
<ivanka> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/design-m-designing-with-upstreams
<ivanka> cool
<ivanka> yes
<aday_> we need to get maintainers on board
<humphreybc> so what can we do to help?
<ivanka> I have already spoken to launchpad to see if we can have a UX advocate role on the project
<ivanka> *on a project
<wers> ivanka, that would be cool
<ivanka> then the conversation became about whether this was something functional
<mpt> Maintainer, Driver, QA Contact ... UX Advocate
<humphreybc> and a bit phat popup box that says "ADD YOUR UX ADVOCATE NOW!"
<humphreybc> big*
<wers> haha
<aday_> it would help if we had ux people working with projects
<ivanka> aday_: yes, of course
<thorwil> i guess i would be the UX advocate for Ardour
<aday_> maintainers aren't going to give this role to someone they don't know or trust
<mpt> hi mat_t :-)
<mpt> So, what else should we do to publicize the idea?
<ivanka> and nobody is suggesting that
<aday_> it is maintainers that we need to convince at the end of the day
<humphreybc> mpt: I guess I could post it on OMG! but it would help if we had the infrastructure in place before
<mat_t> hi mpt :)
<humphreybc> so the UX advocate position on launchpad would be great
<ivanka> I think we can phase it
<thorwil> yes, it takes some work to gain the trust of maintainers and core groups
<ivanka> where it is obvious, get it done
<ivanka> it will help in having the conversation
<aday_> what i'd like to see happen is to have a couple of pilot projects. we could use them to advertise the process and to sell the idea
<ivanka> aday_: yes
<humphreybc> so what are these advocates going to do exactly? Be a link between programmers and designers?
<aday_> it would be nice to have a couple of 'diaries of a ux advocate' on planet gnome
<ivanka> What are the dates for Guadec again?
<vish> so how do we gather the advocates?
<popey> ivanka: july 26-30
<mpt> humphreybc, AIUI, liaison between programmers and enthusiasts who have UI suggestions
<vish> do we have sufficient advocates for all the projects , and how do we pair project to advocate?
<humphreybc> popey, forever lurking.
<wers> and will there be standard tasks that each advocate should do? if so, what would they be?
<wers> wow. 3 Allans here now
<aday_> wers: i think that's somehting we need to decide with maintainers
<godbyk> I think we need a new verb for 'popey swoops in out of nowhere and answers a question'
<humphreybc> hahaha
<vish> godbyk: popied! ;p
<humphreybc> it's verging on creepy
<ivanka> I would rather start with a phase one, setting out the list for people who have obvious ux advocates
<ivanka> then we will have the examples
<ivanka> then we can have bigger conversations
<ivanka> there are a lot of problems
<ivanka> but not all have to be solved before the start
<godbyk> Sounds like a decent plan. Do you know of some projects that already have UX advocates?
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> Ardour...
<aday_> godbyk: brian clark has that kind of role for thunderbird
<aday_> and that works very well by all accounts
<ivanka> lovely!
<humphreybc> quite
<humphreybc> See, I can be english too.
<mpt> So is the plan (1a) get it implemented in LP, (1b) collect examples, (2) publicize the idea?
<humphreybc> mpt: that sounds like a good plan
<aday_> from a gnome perspective, i think the best thing to do would be to show how this can work in a gnome context
<wers> how do we exactly mean by "examples?" like role models?
<humphreybc> wers: I think an example of how a UX advocate can be beneficial?
<mpt> wers, yes, examples of where someone is in that role already
<wers> humphreybc, oh ok
<humphreybc> ie, "This project didn't know where to stick the buttons, so their UX advocate asked some designers and now they made an informed choice. Therefore, you should have a UX advocate too."
<humphreybc> something like that maybne
<wers> oh. something like case studies to publicize
<mpt> ok, so anything for us to do over the next week? :-)
<ivanka> thorwil: maybe I interview you for the design blog about your work with Ardour?
<humphreybc> ivanka: and I can repost it on OMG :)
<humphreybc> can I / I can
<ivanka> see - now we have publicity!
<humphreybc> publicity's the easy part
<ivanka> and a case study
<mpt> excellent
<humphreybc> is the design blog aggregated to planet ubuntu/gnome etc?
<mpt> I don't think so, though some individual contributors' are
<thorwil> ivanka: perhaps. though my on and off involvement is an odd model :)
<wers> though it's a different setup, Mozilla's case is a good example
<mpt> humphreybc, design.canonical.com posts about more than just Ubuntu -- e.g. a post on the front page right now about Launchpad
<humphreybc> mpt: true, but it's still relevant
<ivanka> thorwil: perhaps, but perhaps it is just the way it is
<humphreybc> Jono's current "Why Launchpad Rocks" posts are on planet Ubuntu
<mpt> So, maybe ivanka's should be :-)
<vish> ivanka is on planet gnome but not on pl ubuntu
<humphreybc> tsk, tsk
<mpt> Ok, we've been going for 50 minutes already, so I think we'll leave the sketching/storyboarding discussion for next week
<mpt> so just one more thing for this week
<mpt> 3. Followup on the heuristic evalution
<mpt> I ended up with three evaluations of Sudoku, which you can find by going through "Next by thread" from <https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01845.html>
<mpt> (unfortunately the "Index(es): Thread" link doesn't work properly)
<mpt> So, it was a partial success
<godbyk> What did you think of the evals themselves?
<mpt> I thought they were pretty good, though they made me realize that appropriate heuristics for evaluating a game probably should be a bit more specialized
<mpt> E.g. the first obvious problem for Gnome Sudoku is that it's incredibly ugly compared with 90% of other Sudoku applications, but that's barely touched on in the standard heuristics
<wers> ah yes. affective design isn't a very usual topic
<mpt> It might be an interesting exercise for someone to produce a list of heuristics just for games, so all gnome-games could be reviewed in the same way
<mpt> E.g. "Provides convenient step-by-step help for someone who hasn't played the game before"
<mpt> aday_, maybe you'd be interested in doing that, or know someone who would be?
<aday_> mpt: i could ask around
<mpt> Someone also needs to collate those Sudoku evaluations together into something Robert Ancell can read easily
<mpt> Thanks aday_
<mpt> Any other burning issues anyone would like to discuss this week?
<mpt> ok, thanks everyone for attending
<mpt> I'll send out a summary to the mailing list
<vish> thanks.. good day..
<humphreybc> sweet!
<wers> cool
<humphreybc> thanks chaps
<aday_> cheers all
<wers> dinner's cold already, but it's okay. haha
<mat_t> thanks all!
<thorwil> humphreybc: an _now_ i gonna get coffee! ^^
<humphreybc> surprise of the century
<mpt> vish, about bug 423525, it looks as though people are trying to comment on half a dozen different usability problems in the same report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423525 in One Hundred Paper Cuts ""IBus daemon is not started" message unhelpful" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423525
 * wers leaves his laptop and starts facing his dinner
<wers> oh wait. are we done?
<vish> mpt: yeah :(
<mpt> wers, yes
<mpt> wers, dude, sorry. I'll try to keep next week's to half an hour
<humphreybc> breaking news, mpt says "dude"
<wers> mpt, no it's ok. it's worth it :)
<vish> mpt: how do you suggest we proceed? split the bug for each of the issues?
<mpt> vish, yes, iirc there are already reports for some of the others. Maybe a "This bug report is not about ___ (bug X), _____ (bug Y), or ____ (bug z)" paragraph in the description. :-)
<vish> mpt: ok , neat :)
<ScottK> Just catching up on backscroll.  If you're looking for UX advocate/success stories: http://www.kitterman.org/ScottK/2009/03/open_source_usability_success.html
<mpt> thanks ScottK
 * wers is back
<wers> Again, if anyone's interested in the Usability Testing Suite project, please tell me. here's the wiki http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/UsabilityTestingSuite
<wers> i'll probably start a thread about it again on GNOME Usability list
<acerimmer_>  /msg NickServ identify supersecretpassword
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-28
<easter_egg> the meeting of American regional approval board is tomorrow right?
<easter_egg> someone tell that it is today XD
<nhandler> easter_egg: It is in a little over 30 minutes
<easter_egg> nhandler, really?
<maco> yep
<easter_egg> thanks
<maco> 00:00 utc friday = thursday evening US
<maco> (any of the US timezones...or the canada ones...or ya know...the rest of the americas)
<easter_egg> maco, sorry about the confusion... In brazil we received a different date
<maco> oh?
<easter_egg> maco, whait... I will show you
<maco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<easter_egg> maco, I know... but in planet ubuntu-br show that it should be happen tomorrow. And now the guy that announced it sent an e-mail apologizing
<maco> oh :(
<easter_egg> lucky I was around, I will pay more attention on the issue of time zones the next meeting
<easter_egg> sorry about that
<maco> easter_egg: are you one of the prospectives?
<easter_egg> yes
 * maco needs to put nicks to names
<easter_egg> maco, I have AyrtonAraujo grouped with easter_egg
<easter_egg> if you think that will be help in the meeting
<maco> no its fine, i just had to look back at the wiki page :)
<maco> im reading through everyone's pages now so i dont flail during the meeting
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is pleia2.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pleia2> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for May 28th, 00:00 UTC. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<pleia2> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<pleia2> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<pleia2> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<pleia2> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<pleia2> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is 4 or above, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<pleia2> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<pleia2> doesn't look like Flare183 is here
<manjo> My name is Manoj Iyer (manjo), I am a long term user of Ubuntu, started using Ubuntu since Warty Warthog. I am a full time Ubuntu kernel developer, I worked on Jaunty, Karmic, and Lucid Kernels.
<pleia2> [TOPIC] manjo membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  manjo membership
<manjo> my wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManojIyer
 * ogasawara cheers for manjo
 * manjo thanks ogasawara ... 
<pleia2> hooray for work improving suspend/resume :)
<manjo> thank you
<greg-g> manjo, could you tell me more about your workshops on hardware testing?
<manjo> sure
<manjo> greg-g, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelCompatibilityTesting
<manjo> its is aimed at running simple tests that any novice user can run
<nhandler> Very nice tool and wiki page
<manjo> and we collect some info in the background on what failed in the kernel
<manjo> thanks
<manjo> currently adding bios tests to that
<maco> so, i havent used it before. does it have a gui?
<greg-g> manjo: does this coordinate much with the System Testing app in the GNOME menu?
<manjo> maco, yes the wiki has screen schots
<manjo> greg-g, you mean checkbox ?
<maco> ok im slow :) *blames wireless*
<manjo> greg-g, this is somewhat similar to that, but we collect more kernel specific info
<greg-g> manjo: yeah
<manjo> and we don't do any userspace stuff
<greg-g> manjo: gotcha. So, the databases that they send to are separate, then?
<maco> manjo: ok that looks awesome. i will have to spend a few hours at computer shop with it now :P
<manjo> right
<manjo> maco, git clone git://kernel.ubuntu.com/manjo/kernel-qa-dev kernel-qa-dev is a testing/dev tree
<beuno> manjo, so what where you up to before joining Canonical?
<manjo> that has bios tests in case you are interested
<manjo> beuno, I worked at Linux Technology Centre IBM in Austin for 11yrs
<nhandler> manjo: Any Ubuntu work before joining Canonical?
<manjo> nhandler, no just a long term user
<manjo> nhandler, some debian work... wrt LTP (I was a maintainer for a while)
<maco> do anything offline related to ubuntu?
<beuno> manjo, any participation in LoCo's?
<maco> hmm i should slow down instead of stepping on nhandler...
<manjo> beuno, yeah tx loco
<beuno> manjo, tell me more!
<pleia2> manjo: cool, how's the tx loco doing? (I met up with a bunch of them at UDS Dallas, fun times!)
<manjo> yep I met them 1st time at the Austin linux fest
<manjo> I hang out on the irc
<nhandler> I remember seeing some nice blog posts from Kirkland about the release party
<pleia2> [VOTE] manjo membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  manjo membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<manjo> nhandler, yep kirkland & other ubuntu folks local in austin we meet of and on for beer
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dudanogueira> +1
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from dudanogueira. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<easter_egg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from easter_egg. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<nhandler> Congratulations manjo !
<manjo> nhandler, thanks! cool!
<dudanogueira> congrats manjo :)
<pleia2> just a reminder, only americas board members should be voting when votes are called
<greg-g> congrats and welcome manjo
<pleia2> congrats and welcome, manjo! :)
<akgraner> manjo, congrats
<manjo> yep thanks to all :)
<maco> pleia2: oh so thats where 6 came from
<manjo> akgraner, thanks for the recoo
<pleia2> ozzie_: you here?
<easter_egg> pleia2, sorry
<ozzie_> My name is Ron (Ozzie), my wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/theozzlives. I started using Ubuntu with 7.10.
<pleia2> [TOPIC] ozzie_ membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  ozzie_ membership
<ozzie_> I recently had my own little Wal-Mart LTS expo. Passed out 100 CDs (which I bought, burned, and labeled) and 100 flyers (which I designed, and printed) at my own expense.
<ozzie_> I'm currently a member of the Oklahoma LoCo.
<ozzie_> I constantly evangalize Ubuntu to friends, family, and customers.
<ozzie_> Currently taking my Linux+ course.
<nhandler> ozzie_: You mention doing work on the forum. Do you have a link to your forum profile?
<pleia2> ozzie_: you applied back in March and we asked you to come back once the OK City LoCo had a few events under your belt and some testimonials, I only see one Testimonial, how is OKC doing?
<ozzie_> My forum nick is theozzlives
<beuno> ozzie_, got any testimonials from the Oklahoma LoCo folks?
<ozzie_> no
<nhandler> [LINK] http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=420456
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=420456
<pleia2> ah, two testimonials
<ozzie_> there's 2 testimonials
<maco> are they LoCo folks?
<pleia2> ozzie_: any testimonials from members of the ubuntu community, forums maybe?
<beuno> ozzie_, right, those seem to be grom customers, no?
<dudanogueira> ozzie_: do you have close contact with your locoteam?
 * maco hands beuno an "f"
<ozzie_> Customers
<ozzie_> the loco hasn't had a meeting
<beuno> maco, thanks, I ran out!
<pleia2> ozzie_: at the last meeting you expressed your intention of getting th OK loco going, you haven't had a meeting but has there been any progress?
<ozzie_> no the leader isn't doing much
<ozzie_> I sent a mail to the loco with one reply
<pleia2> ozzie_: I am going to suggest the same thing we suggested at the last meeting - work with the loco and the leader to get things rolling (you say you're an active member, but nothing is happening?)
<pleia2> also get some testimonials from folks you work with in the loco, and on the forums
<greg-g> ozzie_: I find offering to coordinate an event really gets leaders, and the group, to get energized again. And really, making a reservation at a restuarant doesn't take much time, but it makes everyone else appreciate the work you do
 * maco thinks greg-g read her mind and stole what she was gonna say
<greg-g> :)
<pleia2> yeah, you don't need to be the leader to plan events :) I do it all the time and I'm not the loco leader of my team
<ozzie_> with no help I'm doing it all myself
<maco> you're somewhere warm. have a bbq in the back yard :)
<nhandler> ozzie_: I'm sure you could send an email to the loco-contacts@ mailing list or ask in #ubuntu-locoteams for some help getting an event going
<maco> plenty of stuff can be done without a whole lot of planning. as greg-g said, call a restaurant and say "save me a big table"
<dudanogueira> also, if there are no leaders, or the leader isn't doing a lot, go for it and be the leader :)
<maco> dudanogueira: +1
<nhandler> Shall we officially vote to defer him for now
<maco> nhandler: go for it
<pleia2> [VOTE] ozzie_ to come back once loco is running and more testimonials from community members
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ozzie_ to come back once loco is running and more testimonials from community members.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dudanogueira> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dudanogueira. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<maco> nhandler: oh heh. forgot she was running the show, not you ;)
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 4
<pleia2> ozzie_: please do follow up with nhandler's suggestions of getting help from the global loco team resources on how to get things rolling in your area :)
<nhandler> There are also many wiki pages that might help
<greg-g> ozzie_: I really think you have a good chance to get something going in OKC, and please don't hesitate to reach out to the wider LoCO community for assistance/guidance
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Flare183 membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Flare183 membership
<pleia2> Flare-Laptop: you're up :)
<Flare-Laptop> Alright, Hi everyone. I'm Flare183 aka Flare-Laptop. I'm the leader of Ubuntu of South Carolina.
<Flare-Laptop> My wiki page is as followed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Richardson183
<pleia2> Flare-Laptop: can you talk about some of the projects/events the south carolina team is currently working on?
<Flare-Laptop> pleia2: Lately there has been pretty low activity in the LoCo Team due to the fact that everyone is busy, and I've just become the team leader a few months or so ago
<pleia2> Flare-Laptop: any plans in the works? A Lucid release party perhaps?
<greg-g> Flare-Laptop: any plans.....
<Flare-Laptop> We have plans yes, we are going to try to do a Ubuntu Hour, but at where we haven't decided yet
<nhandler> Flare-Laptop: What type of help do you provide on IRC?
<akgraner> I missed adding a testimonial for Flare-Laptop however, he is very helpful to people in the IRC channel who need help.  He has offered to participate in events in SC and NC where and when possible
<maco> I see a lot of animosity toward other OSes (using Windows is a sin?) in your opening paragraph on your wiki page.  Just to be sure, if someone comes to you needing help with a dual boot, do you respect their decision to have and use other OSes?
<Flare-Laptop> nhandler: any time of help that I can, I try my best to do what I can to help anyone.
<nhandler> Flare-Laptop: What channels do you tend to help out in? Just the SC LoCo channel?
<Flare-Laptop> maco: Yes, I do. And I understand that windows is out there, and I respect them if they use Windows or another OS
<Flare-Laptop> nhandler: The man general channel as well as #ubuntu-beginners
<pleia2> Flare-Laptop: I'd really like to see some testimonials from folks you work with on IRC, as well as some solid activity in the SC team (with pictures! we love pictures! :))
<Flare-Laptop> pleia2: I do have logs of me helping people, I would have to dig into them if you like
<nhandler> Flare-Laptop: Logs are different than testimonials.
<Flare-Laptop> nhandler: I understand taht
<Flare-Laptop> that*
<maco> i'd like to see how you do at kicking some life into the SC LoCo. any movement there?
<maco> i see you said Ubuntu Hour
<maco> but did you do anything for Lucid's release?
<dudanogueira> Flare-Laptop: Ubuntu is about community, and working together with your LoCo team, is about doing it on the "community way".
<Flare-Laptop> Yes, I have been trying to play and organize some people for a Ubuntu at the College that I goto, but haven't had much luck to the fact that I would like more people to come
<Flare-Laptop> dudanogueira: I Understand and agree to that
<pleia2> most locos start off pretty small, I consider an event a success if there is more than just me there ;)
<pleia2> so no need to worry so much about numbers, getting things started is key
<maco> heh yep in our loco thatd be "more than me and crimsun"
<maco> though lately we've had a minimum of 3 or 4! :)
<greg-g> maco: well done! :)
<nhandler> Yep. You'll also be amazed at the number of people who just show up without ever RSVPing or saying anything on the ML or on IRC
<maco> greg-g: avg is closer to half-dozen
<pleia2> ok, lets do this vote properly this time
<pleia2> [VOTE] Flare-Laptop membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Flare-Laptop membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from pleia2. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<nhandler> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from nhandler. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<maco> +0
<dudanogueira> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from maco. 0 for, 0 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now 0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dudanogueira. 0 for, 0 against. 4 have abstained. Count is now 0
<pleia2> more testimonials to reflect IRC work, and some events at SC loco would be great :)
<greg-g> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from greg-g. 0 for, 0 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now 0
<maco> Flare-Laptop: resuscitate that loco!
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 0 against. 5 abstained. Total: 0
<maco> (and then get someone to tell us about it)
<Flare-Laptop> maco: Alright
<dudanogueira> Flare-Laptop: We hope to see you back here soon with good news and, pictures!
<pleia2> easter_egg: are you here?
<easter_egg> yes
<pleia2> [TOPIC] easter_egg membership
<Flare-Laptop> dudanogueira: Alright :)
<MootBot> New Topic:  easter_egg membership
<greg-g> Flare-Laptop: yeah, I think your work is looking really good, and just need a little more to push you over the line for membership, thanks for coming!
<easter_egg> I'm here
<easter_egg> Sorry for nervousness
<easter_egg> I can start now?
<maco> yep
<easter_egg> can I*
<easter_egg> I'll try to summarize my speech, simplifying what already exists on my wiki...
<easter_egg> whell..
<maco> dont be nervous. i dont think ive ever seen "never" be the answer :)
<easter_egg> If you read my wiki, you see a lot of things that I really can't do alone
<easter_egg> like...
<easter_egg> be a motu, help with the bugs, help with with translations, help with documentations
<easter_egg> And you will ask?
<easter_egg> How you will make these things?
<easter_egg> At Manaus...
<easter_egg> many developers se ubuntu and would to help
<easter_egg> if I join all
<easter_egg> I will can do theses things, I will have many arms
<easter_egg> many brains to make my ideas work
<easter_egg> because one idea alone is nothing
<easter_egg> What I need to do is
<easter_egg> show the way to the people who's like of my ideas
<pleia2> easter_egg: can you discuss what you're currently doing right now? (you're not a motu yet)
<easter_egg> pleia2, and now
<easter_egg> I'm working hardly to create a development team of ubuntu here
<easter_egg> making hackfests
<easter_egg> saying how to report bugs
<easter_egg> showing the way
<greg-g> good good, how many of those hackfests have you done?
<easter_egg> one for week
<easter_egg> since the last month
<greg-g> wow!
<easter_egg> in this saturday
<greg-g> (I think you mean "one per week", btw)
<easter_egg> will be happen another hackfest
<nhandler> Very impressive
<easter_egg> greg-g, thats it
<greg-g> :)
<easter_egg> I now that I have a long way
<easter_egg> but I'm optimistic
<maco> have you been working with bugsquad (or bugsquad's wiki pages) to try to teach the folks you're working with how to make good, useful bug reports?
<easter_egg> I normally say face to face in hackfests
<easter_egg> I will try to make more documentations in brazillian wiki
<nhandler> easter_egg: I see you are part of the Launchpad Brazilian Translators team. Do you do much work with translations?
<easter_egg> nhandler, with translations is very rare
<easter_egg> I have...
<easter_egg> a especial interest in internacionalization
<maco> easter_egg: what i mean is, what do you do with the "saying how to report bugs"? is it just "run ubuntu-bug PACKAGE"? or do you walk others through how to make the bug report be really useful for developers?
<maco> in my opinion, we need more people teaching how to write *good* bug reports
<easter_egg> maco, I'm say the following:
<easter_egg> - If the bug is related with openid or launchpad
<easter_egg> - Make a report in english to team fundations
<easter_egg> if the bug is related with the bots
<easter_egg> make a report do team ubuntu-bots, in english, with details
<pleia2> easter_egg: sounds like you've been doing good work, but you don't have any testimonials on your page, is there anyone here to give you one?
<easter_egg> pleia2, no... just Andre Gondim accompanies my work
<easter_egg> and
<easter_egg> one or two people of cannonical
<pleia2> perhaps you can get them to write testimonials for your wiki?
<easter_egg> Henning Eggers is one of then
<easter_egg> pleia2, yes... its possible, but he's not in the irc now
<easter_egg> in fact,
<easter_egg> I made a mistake and thought the meeting was only tomorrow
<pleia2> no problem, we have them every month :)
<dudanogueira> easter_egg: Have you contacted Andre Gondim for giving you a testimonial?
<easter_egg> dudanogueira, No
<pleia2> so I suggest getting some testimonials from a few folks who are familiar with your work, keep doing what you're doing, and then come back to a later meeting
<maco> only 3 weeks til the next one since this one was a week late
<easter_egg> is possible to do this when he's back?
<easter_egg> pleia2, okay
<pleia2> Matir_: you here?
<Matir_> pleia2, yes
<easter_egg> pleia2, I accept the suggestion
<pleia2> easter_egg: ok great, see you at a meeting soon!
<pleia2> :)
<easter_egg> thanks for everyone
<easter_egg> good night
<pleia2> [TOPIC] Matir_ membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  Matir_ membership
<Matir_> Hi everyone... my name is David Tomaschik, aka Matir.  I've been a Ubuntu User since my migration from Gentoo (started with Hoary).  I'm a bugsquad member, and I'm also an active member and organizer of the Georgia LoCo.
<greg-g> thanks for your contributions easter_egg, come back soon
<Matir_> I'm naturally a staunch Ubuntu evangelist, including spearheading an RHEL->Ubuntu Server transition at my work.  My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Matir
<easter_egg> I will be back
<maco> hah poaching from other distros?
<greg-g> nice, how is that transition going?
<Matir_> greg-g, pretty well... we're about to move our main campus CMS over from RHEL to Ubuntu Server... mainly to get PHP > 5.1, but some other reasons too
<dudanogueira> easter_egg: We hope so! And work in order to put Ubuntu-AM up!
<pleia2> Matir_: I heard great things about ALF, was so sorry I couldn't make it!
<Matir_> pleia2, it was a surprise even to us to see how big it became
<maco> pleia2: clearly they need to have a teleport station at the next one
<easter_egg> dudanogueira, I will work. Thanks for concern
<nhandler> Matir_: I see you are active in the BugSquad. Any plans to go out for BugControl ?
<Matir_> nhandler, yes, I'd like to.  I'm just trying to get a few more strong "example" bugs before I do that.
<greg-g> Matir_: good deal, feel free to ping nhandler or maco or I if you have any questions on QA stuff
<greg-g> ;)
<Matir_> greg-g, I will then.
<nhandler> Matir_: For the bullets under "The Future of Ubuntu" on your wiki, are you doing anything to work towards making them happen?
<Matir_> nhandler, yes... I've worked with a number of people at the school I attended and now the university I work at to help them find Ubuntu alternatives to Windows software.  Additionally, we're currently developing a meta-tool for managing UFW in-house at KSU.
<Matir_> nhandler, I'm also actively testing a couple of firewall frontends to see which might be ready for default on the desktop
<greg-g> nice
<nhandler> Matir_: And are you making the results of these tests, the tool, and the list of alternatives back to the community in any way?
<Matir_> nhandler, I've published a blog entry or two regarding alternatives.  When/if I discover bugs in the GUIs, they will be reported, or I will open a bug to suggest putting it in the default install
<nhandler> Awesome Matir_
<greg-g> what about the meta-tool?
<Matir_> nhandler, as far as the tool is concerned, I have to receive consent from the Board of Regents, but my boss and I have discussed open-sourcing it
<greg-g> I hope you can
<maco> good luck with tat
<maco> *that
<pleia2> [VOTE] Matir_ membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Matir_ membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<boredandblogging> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from boredandblogging. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<greg-g> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<dudanogueira> +1
<pleia2> oops, sorry dudanogueira :)
<nhandler> Congratulations Matir_
<dudanogueira> oops, hehehe
<Matir_> thanks :)
<pleia2> welcome, Matir_! great work
<Matir_> thanks all
<boredandblogging> Matir_: you rock!
<dudanogueira> Matir_: congrats!! way to go!
<greg-g> congrats and welcome, Matir_
<Matir_> thanks everyone!
<pleia2> IdleOne doesn't seem to be here quite yet, so we'll go straight to pgraner, if he's around :)
<pleia2> pgraner, you about?
<pgraner> Yerp.... Hi my name is Pete Graner, I'm the Ubuntu Kernel Team Manger. I'm a long time linux user, kernel developer and FOSS advocate. I've been deveoping on Ubuntu since Hardy. You can find my wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeteGraner
<pleia2> [TOPIC] pgraner membership
<MootBot> New Topic:  pgraner membership
 * ogasawara gives pgraner a big +1
<greg-g> thanks ogasawara :)
<pleia2> pgraner: did you attend the goat festival? :)
<pgraner> pleia2: yep... was there all day
<greg-g> pgraner: buy a goat?
<pleia2> for the peanut gallery, the NC LoCo had an ubuntu table at a goat festival recently: http://akgraner.com/?p=471
<pgraner> greg-g: nope I have 2 kids... no more critters :-)
<ScottK> +1 on that
 * ScottK has 3.
<greg-g> :)
<maco> pgraner: I remember that you were surprised to learn about Full Circle back when akgraner got involved in it. Has your familiarity with the community improved since then?
<pgraner> maco: wasn't surprised just didn't read it so I was unfamiliar with the content
<maco> ok
<pgraner> maco: and I'm involved with as much of the community as I can be traveling over 180+ days in supoort of Ubuntu
<greg-g> I'm assuming you read some of it now
<greg-g> :)
<maco> that sounds like a horrible schedule
<pgraner> greg-g: some, its in my reader
<pleia2> [VOTE] pgraner membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  pgraner membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<boredandblogging> +1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from boredandblogging. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pleia2> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<dudanogueira> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<MootBot> +1 received from dudanogueira. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<greg-g> +1 # thanks for all your work
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<pleia2> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<pleia2> thanks for making my kernel work :)
<pgraner> Thanks All!
<nhandler> Keep up the great work pgraner !
<pgraner> pleia2: no prob
<dudanogueira> pgraner: congrats and welcome :)
<akgraner> congrats pgraner
<ogasawara> aww
<pgraner> Thanks!
<greg-g> congrats
<pleia2> looks like no ZandreBran, no ScottL
<ScottK> Congratulations pgraner.
<maco> pleia2: ScottL confuses me because weve already got a ScottK
<pgraner> ScottK: :-)
<ScottK> pleia2: ScottL should get a better nick.
<maco> who also confuses me because of StevenK
<maco> starts with big-S, ends in big-K a few little letters in he middle...
<ScottK> Back when I started he and I got mis-highlighted on IRC all the time.
<pleia2> maco: me too
<pleia2> well, looks like it's time to wrap up
<easter_egg> pleia2, I think ZandeBran confused the date of the meeting too
<pleia2> easter_egg: ah ok
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:17.
<pleia2> thanks everyone! :)
<nhandler> Good meeting everyone
<greg-g> thanks to everyone who came and congrats to the new members!
<dinda> ack! I had the date as tomorrow too :(
<boredandblogging> what greg-g said
<dudanogueira> thanks everybody!!
<maco> dinda: you have a voicemail from me
<maco> dinda: it says "hey dinda, its maco. we have a meeting in 15 minutes"
<dinda> maco: and I almost called you earlier to check the meeting date too. . .
<dinda> was out getting some car repairs done
<maco> your phone was off when i called
<maco> it went straight to voicemail. greg-g's at least rang :P
<dinda> maco:  strange phone was on, got other calls, nothing from you :(
<maco> hmm maybe bad signal
<easter_egg> pleia2, ZandreBran joined
<ScottL> doh, i missed the membership meeting, oh well, hopefully i'll be able to make the next one :(
<czajkowski> .c
<jpds> .py
<Claudinux> .sh
<vish> ...
<j_ack> hey yall
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-29
 * wise_crypt is away: sleeping 
 * wise_crypt is back (gone 00:05:37)
 * wise_crypt is away: 
<nhandler> wise_crypt: Can you please disable that away script?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-05-30
<nhandler> Meeting Time! jussi, tsimpson, topyli, Pici
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jussi> o/
 * tsimpson waves
<topyli> o/
<czajkowski> aloha
<nhandler> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi> awesome, we have quorum
<nhandler> czajkowski: Looks like you are up. Care to explain this item a bit
<tsimpson> we need a [topic] :)
<czajkowski> hey, well this was something I discussed at UDS
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Logging bot in all LoCo IRC channels
<MootBot> New Topic:  Logging bot in all LoCo IRC channels
<czajkowski> Do loco teams have to have the logging bot in their channels, be they are approved or unapproved they are using the ubuntu namespace
<czajkowski> as some teams are removing the logging bot from their channels and then having very non CoC disucsions in thee
<czajkowski> *there
<czajkowski> I've mentioned to a few people and most think the logging in ubuntu-iso for all teams would be good
<czajkowski> so it's a loco council and IRCC issue I thought best disucssed here
<topyli> czajkowski: you're talking about the main #ubuntu-iso channel, not things like #ubuntu-iso-offtopic or any subchannels like that?
<czajkowski> topyli: not offtopic channels no
<czajkowski> just the main -iso channel
<nhandler> I know at least a few LoCos who would probably not be happy with this requirement. Although discussion might comply with the CoC, it is still a LoCo channel, and some more personal/offtopic discussions will (by their nature) take place in them. This does not belong on the web
<tsimpson> if the issue is people removing the log bot from their channels, how will forcing all -iso channels to be logged help?
<czajkowski> I've no problem with off topic items in channel tbh, it really depends on the loco
<tsimpson> surely the same people would just remove the bot again, right?
<jussi> nhandler: I tend to disagree, its a public channel after all.
<czajkowski> tsimpson: well now it'd be seen as something they have to have
<tsimpson> czajkowski: and what will happen if they remove it?
<nhandler> jussi: Yes, but it is a bit different when there are public logs on the web
<czajkowski> tsimpson: O'm not sure, hence the discussion.
<czajkowski> *I'm
<tsimpson> nhandler: they can use a -offtopic sub channel for that probably, though it's an inconvenience
<nhandler> I'm just worried that requiring the log bot will hurt the friendly/welcoming atmosphere in some loco channels
<topyli> the loco council might remove the official loco status from the team maybe?
<czajkowski> nhandler: most teams do have some form of non topic in their channels, I've seen some locos create -chat channels and that has KILLED their main ubuntu channel
<topyli> but i have the same worry as nhandler
<nhandler> tsimpson: Yeah, I agree. Especially for small locos, it is silly to have multiple channels
<itnet7> nhandler: in the past when there isn't a channel, usually the team will not be so inviting
<itnet7> Yes they could remove it
<tsimpson> topyli: unapproved LoCos' would still be required to be logged
<itnet7> oops
<czajkowski> as an example the Irish channel is rather samall, we have all chats in there, while remaining CoC  friendly and it works well
<itnet7> when there isn't a bot in the channel
<topyli> tsimpson: ah. evryone in the namespace. i get it
<nhandler> czajkowski: And how will requiring the log bot fix the underlying problem of some LoCos not following the CoC?
<tsimpson> czajkowski: have you (or others from the LoCo council) discussed this with the teams?
<czajkowski> nhandler: well if channels were logged, and there are issues in channel and people bring this to our attention they can point us to the logs, very hard to point us to an unlogged channel conversation
<nhandler> czajkowski: Was there ever an issue regarding the CoC not being observed where nobody in the channel had logs?
<czajkowski> tsimpson: I've mentoned it to a few, but it;s not been offical, we wanted to get discussion going on here between the two councils
<tsimpson> right, ok
<nhandler> I think having private logs available to the IRC/LoCo council would be another possible solution to the problem
<czajkowski> nhandler: tsimpson topyli itnet7 is here from the council also, so don't feel you need to put all the questions to me :)
<tsimpson> nhandler: I think it's more about having "trusted" logs
<nhandler> Ah, I missed him
<topyli> :)
<itnet7> nhandler: +1
<topyli> nhandler: i like that
<tsimpson> private logging would be a solution, respecting privacy
<jussi> I recently suggested this to the CC, with regard to a few other chans.
<czajkowski> nhandler: nice idea, but again needs someone to keep logs, having the logging bot is an impartial bot
<itnet7> Yes, I think most of us would understand the sensitivity of the logs
<topyli> that of course implies that everyone trusts the council(s)
<czajkowski> jussi: see pm
<tsimpson> topyli: if councils are not trusted, we have bigger issues ;)
<topyli> yeah :)
<czajkowski> the idea of this agenda item was to create a discssion - so far it's a lotta questions being fired at me, I'd like to hear the councils ideas/thoughts on the subject
<tsimpson> maybe if we have some "locked-down" section on the logging server
<topyli> still, i don't know. "logs available to topyli" and "logs available to the whole internet" is a facebook-like situation
<jussi> I think the thing with public logs is that people other than the council can bring up any issues. councils dont have infinite time and manpower
<tsimpson> czajkowski: we were just curious as to why it's needed, I think we get that now
<topyli> jussi: good point
<nhandler> I think it is also worth remembering that people should generally be trusted unless there is a reason otherwise. So if multiple people from a LoCo channel present the council with the same logs, I think it is generally safe to assume they are accurate
<topyli> private logs just gives you evidence after the fact
<tsimpson> it's true that the main problem is the CoC not being respected in channels
<czajkowski> I know from one loco in question where they were acting up, we pointed it out to them and pointed out we can view the logs, and soon enough they removed the bot
<jussi> For me, we are an open community, and I see no reason not to be unless there is a compelling reason otherwise.
<tsimpson> that's really an issue for the individual LoCo teams to enforce it though
<itnet7> In one use case tsimpson: when people come to the LoCo Council and are looking for mediation, they tell us that there have been conflicts within the team, and often it takes place within their unlogged channel
<nhandler> It just seems that the only reason that is being proposed to add the log bot is to "spy" on teams to make sure they are behaving. In all other channels, it is being used because the logs in those channels provide a useful reference
<nhandler> itnet7: And nobody keeps private logs?
<czajkowski> nhandler: I'd say using the word spy is rther inflamatory tbh
<tsimpson> itnet7: sure, but if a LoCo has an offtopic/unlogged channel, they'd just move there and continue
<czajkowski> nhandler: and those kinda words tends to set some folks off on rants which isn't very helpful
<itnet7> Some of them are unestablished teams, and don't realize how easy they could request the bot to begin with
<topyli> itnet7: but shouldn't that just teach them to log the channel voluntarily so you can help them better? forcing the log bot is quite another thing
<itnet7> so I doubt they have private logs
<jussi> private logs often tend to be patchy.
<czajkowski> tsimpson: for the teams I've seen who created an unlogged channel or a chat channel, most of the conversation ends up there and the other main channel ends up rather ghost like
<nhandler> jussi: Yeah, it would be important to get logs from multiple people in the channel to confirm
<tsimpson> private logs can also be easily falsified
<itnet7> I guess in a way topyli, It just seems that if we make it part of registering the primary LoCo channel, that it would help out new teams and get everyone on the same sheet of music from the beginning
<czajkowski> itnet7: exactly
<nhandler> Have we even checked with Canonical if they would be fine with this? I thought we were using the Ubuntu-EU bot for logging loco channels
<itnet7> Then we can suggest when someone is having coversations that aren't CoC friendly we can suggest that they, create an off-topic channel, and encourage them
<topyli> generally speaking, i do think public logs would be the most appropriate way for an open community. i would like to decide based on that
<jussi> Just one thing to note, the new GMS is planned to have logging available without the use of personal log bots. SO that may change things.
<tsimpson> nhandler: it's just a discussion right now, no implementation has been looked at
<itnet7> I think the effort here was to see if there was any buy-in and too make sure you folks would be fine with it
<itnet7> And if it was technically possible and no huge opposition, then speak with Canonical on it
<nhandler> I would like to hear some more feedback from the LoCo teams before going any further with this decision. Their feedback would be very useful
<topyli> itnet7: making it part of channel creation is certainly a good idea. enforcing it to existing ones after the fact is more difficult
<czajkowski> I can add it to our council meeting so
<czajkowski> there are at present 78 approved team and 138 unapproved teams
<tsimpson> I think it will be difficult to enforce logging in non-approved LoCo's, as we don't know when/if they are created
<itnet7> The LoCo Teams should have logging based on the getting started wiki's
<jussi> perhaps this should go to both the loco contacts and the irc ML's?
<tsimpson> unless someone adds it to the wiki and then someone else checks the channel
<czajkowski> would a suggestion be to add it to the unapproved teams and work from there ??
<nhandler> I would also like to try and get a list of pros/cons of this change put together.
<czajkowski> jussi: I suggested the council meeting, but mailing list also would be fine. I'd just suggest one list rather than two as otherwise folowing threads will get noisey
<tsimpson> would it be easier to say a channel being logged be a part of the approval prerequisites?
<czajkowski> tsimpson: I'd like to do that going forward with the 138 that are there atm
<nhandler> Would someone like to take the action to start documenting some of the pros/cons on the wiki ?
<nhandler> I think this would be useful to summarize the IRC/ML discussions
<czajkowski> nhandler: you seem to want to drive that, I like to hear more of your thoughts on it
<tsimpson> if we move the discussion to a ML, it should be the LoCo list I think
<nhandler> tsimpson: Agreed
<czajkowski> tsimpson: +1
<topyli> yeah
<topyli> is the loco list moderated?
<nhandler> czajkowski: I can create the initial page. I would appreciate some help keeping it updated (especially once the ML discussion starts)
<nhandler> topyli: loco-contacts is not
<topyli> nhandler: ok
<jussi> +1 for taking it to loco-contacts ml
<nhandler> Who wants to start that ML discussion?
<topyli> czajkowski does :)
<czajkowski> nhandler: would you like it to come from the loco council
<czajkowski> topyli: hush you or I'll start to give you some of my action items :p
<tsimpson> I think gathering the opinion of the LoCo teams will help us here, the man objection is based on how people would feel if the channels were all logged
<nhandler> czajkowski: That is fine
<tsimpson> s/man/main/
<topyli> czajkowski: oh good point. should the initiative come from the irc council instead?
<czajkowski> tsimpson: I know of course you are going to get the 1-2 people who hate cannot abide logging
<nhandler> topyli: I think LC would be best to start this discussion, but that is just me
<tsimpson> czajkowski: absolutely, we need to try not to be overwhelmed by the vocal minority here
<nhandler> So should we give the LC the action to start the initial ML discussion?
<czajkowski> tsimpson: indeed and I think in some cases we tend to shy away from some things due to the few people who kick up for what ever reason tbh
<czajkowski> and think of the greater community
<tsimpson> it may be an idea to use LP to poll the teams? or am I being crazy here?
<czajkowski> nhandler: myself and itnet7 wil get cracking on it
<nhandler> tsimpson: That won't let us get comments/other feedback easily
<czajkowski> tsimpson: LP poll?
<nhandler> czajkowski: Great
<czajkowski> nhandler: glad you're happy! :)
<nhandler> [ACTION] czajkowski and itnet7 to send out initial email to loco-contacts@ requesting feedback
<MootBot> ACTION received:  czajkowski and itnet7 to send out initial email to loco-contacts@ requesting feedback
<tsimpson> czajkowski: can't launchpad be used to poll a team? or am I dreaming?
<czajkowski> itnet7: my dear ;) do not run away on me
<itnet7> cya
<itnet7> j/k
<czajkowski> tsimpson: it's not at all nice to use, plus mail will give people tons of space to give us feedback
<nhandler> tsimpson: It can. But only for yes/no style polls. You can't add a textbox asking for an explanation or anything like that
<tsimpson> nhandler: yes, a ML discussion as well
<tsimpson> I mean in addition
<czajkowski> which I'm sure we're going to get some large text boxes from people :)
<topyli> i do hate democracy in these decisions though
<tsimpson> the poll will let us see a "cold" view of the issue
<nhandler> Would someone like to assist me with the pros/cons wiki page? I doubt I will be able to keep it updated myself once the ML discussion begins
<tsimpson> *would, not will
<jussi> yes, tsimpson is correct.
<czajkowski> topyli: aye I do wonder in some cases would it just be easier to add the bot and deal with the 3-4 people who wont like logging afterwards
<tsimpson> ie: the shouting few will not be able to drown out others
<topyli> czajkowski: there is that. just announce, "there's been a change"
<jussi> itnet7: or czajkowski could one of you or another loco council memebr help nhandler with the pros/cons page?
<itnet7> I will check it for updates
<nhandler> tsimpson: I would prefer to wait to do that until after at least some initial discussion takes place. Otherwise, people will be voting without knowing much about the issue.
<czajkowski> jussi: I cant say for sure they're not here atm.
<tsimpson> nhandler: yes, defiantly
<nhandler> [IDEA] Create a LP poll after some initial discussion to poll LoCo members about this change
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Create a LP poll after some initial discussion to poll LoCo members about this change
<itnet7> and help add and additions to the wiki page
<czajkowski> topyli: soemtimes that's easier than ml debates knowing how well some discssions turn out.
<nhandler> Thanks itnet7
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler and itnet7 to work on pros/cons wiki page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler and itnet7 to work on pros/cons wiki page
<topyli> czajkowski: yeah well, let's get feedback. sometimes you get good arguments from there, might as well use it
<tsimpson> so start off the ML discussion first and get some general feedback, then poll uses on the idea. that way we should get a decent overview of the perception
<Pici> ohey, this is now.
<topyli> Pici! <3
<czajkowski> topyli: well I figured we weren't going to just do it
<czajkowski> :)
<tsimpson> we're all here? well well :)
<Pici> Sorry guys, got sidetracked playing with my arduino.
<nhandler> tsimpson: And we'll have a pros/cons wiki page created based on the general feedback that we will include in the poll
<czajkowski> Pici: aloha! where were you!
<itnet7> no then was now, and now is now Pici  :-)
<nhandler> But remember, all of this is just to get some feedback. Even the poll. We will need to meet and discuss again before deciding anything imo
<czajkowski> nhandler: don't worry, I understand
<nhandler> :)
<topyli> can we wrap this up then?
<nhandler> So is there anything more to discuss here about that topic?
<czajkowski> nhandler: dont oanic not gonna go making folks add bot till it's discssed
 * nhandler hugs czajkowski
<nhandler> Alright, I think we can move on.
<nhandler> [TOPIC] Fixed Agenda Items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Fixed Agenda Items
<nhandler> tsimpson: You checked out the bugs before the meeting, right?
<tsimpson> yeah, there is the ever-present "#ubuntu is too noisy" which is not going away any time soon
<topyli> heh
<tsimpson> and the Guadalinex issue https://bugs.launchpad.net/guadalinex/+bug/513915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 513915 in Guadalinex "IRC Clients join Ubuntu channels by default" [Low,New]
<tsimpson> which seems to have stalled in progress
<jussi> it had a fixed release at one point
<topyli> it was so promising at some point in time
<nhandler> jussi: The Guadalinex Edu task is Fix Released
<tsimpson> for those who don't know, that's about IRC clients joining #ubuntu by default
<tsimpson> and sub-distributions picking up those same settings
<tsimpson> which is not so good for other-language distros
<nhandler> I'm not sure what needs to be done for the Guadalinex task to be closed as well
<tsimpson> neither am I, we should get back in contact with them and poke for a progress update
<nhandler> Does someone want to take that action?
<tsimpson> I'll comment on the bug
<nhandler> [ACTION] tsimpson to comment on Guadalinex bug for status update on Guadalinex task
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to comment on Guadalinex bug for status update on Guadalinex task
<topyli> that should be enough, the maintainers will get mail
<jussi> yeah, agreed
<Pici> hopefully.
<tsimpson> if by the next meeting there is no response, I'll look in to it further
<jussi> hai Pici!
<nhandler> And any volunteers for the post-meeting tasks? If not, I'll handle them.
<tsimpson> I/we
<Pici> nhandler: What needs to be done?
<nhandler> Pici: Everything but the first fixed item on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<topyli> isn't that one of the perks that go with chairing? :)
<tsimpson> monthly report/minutes
<nhandler> Pici: So team report, wiki, minutes, etc
<nhandler> topyli: If nobody else wants to, then yes ;)
<tsimpson> any other issues anyone wants to bring up while we're all still here?
<nhandler> So Pici, want to do it? Or should I take care of it?
<Pici> nhandler: ooh. As much as I feel bad for missing most of the meeting, I'll let you take care of it ;)
<nhandler> :)
<topyli> rofl
<nhandler> [ACTION] nhandler to take care of post-meeting tasks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to take care of post-meeting tasks
<nhandler> So, last call for any other topics to be discussed?
<nhandler> err s/?/./
<jussi> one sec
<jussi> Could we breifly touch on the -lts issue? breifly!
<Pici> Remind me, when do we check back up on our operator candidates' probationary period thing?
<topyli> i can touch the -lts issue with initial disagreement
<tsimpson> 16th July
<tsimpson> Pici: ^
<Pici> tsimpson: okay.  I know you keep telling me, but I keep forgetting.
<nhandler> topyli: Want to briefly explain the issue
<topyli> ok
<topyli> on the mailing list, someone suggested that lts users should have a separate support channel
<topyli> that's because most people don't run lts on desktop, and support can be poor
<topyli> because the helpers don't remember what life was like on hardy :)
<tsimpson> this is mostly for LTS desktop only, not server
<jussi> The thing is, for me, there is a reasonable size group who do run it on the desktop.
<topyli> yeah, servers would still be on -server
<Pici> Wouldn't we get into the same scenario where we're ferrying people from #ubuntu into other channels?  May I remind people what #ubuntu starts to look like when +1 gets close to release?
<topyli> there are a number of newbies that got ubuntu preinstalled, or a friend installed lts for them
<jussi> There are people who are more than happy to not upgrade - and I think that a -lts channel woul actually be very suitable to have.
<jussi> Pici: there is that to a point - but lts's could be patched to default to that channel instead.
<topyli> it is a reasonable idea, but i still tend to disagree
<tsimpson> personally, I think the bulk of question in #ubuntu are not that release-specific
<topyli> most newbie questions are generally understandable to helpers
<nhandler> jussi: Would LTS support still take place in -lts when it is the current release then?
<tsimpson> the only issues are when the desktop goes under a major transition
<Pici> jussi: Then you aren't going to see this go into effect for another 2 years.. at least.
<tsimpson> like when we switched to KDE4 in #kubuntu
<nhandler> Pici: That is what I was thinking
<nhandler> But even with a major change, the same questions tend to come up over and over, so the helpers tend to remember the differences.
<Pici> I don't see this as a valid SRU, and even if it was, we wouldn't be touching the default channel for people who already have an LTS installed.
<topyli> i also don't know if help would actually be available on -lts
<nhandler> I think several of the points brought up on the ML could also be solved by people only interested in helping with LTS issues utilizing the meta bot
<jussi> Perhaps it needs more thought. I guess we can come back to it next meeting or the one after.
<nhandler> Is there anything we (IRCC) can do to help the discussion on the ML?
<tsimpson> I'm generally opposed to splitting #ubuntu, so there needs to be an extremely good reason to do so
<topyli> tsimpson: likewise
<Pici> tsimpson: agreed.
<jussi> right. so shall we agree to take this up at a later date if need be?
<tsimpson> nhandler: I think the main issues have already been brought up on the ML, like turning #ubuntu in to a "please ask in #..." channel
<topyli> nhandler: we can state our worry about the quality of the future -lts channel (will any helpers actually join it), and we can acknowledge the existance of lts desktop users on the positive side
<Pici> : Please join #ubuntu+1 for Lucid/10.04 support/discussion.
<Pici> oops
<topyli> i can take action if that sounds sane
<nhandler> That might be useful. We can then come back to this topic at a later date to make a formal decision
<tsimpson> I think we should respond to let people know we are discussing it at least
<topyli> i'll try and summarize all the points made in the ml discussion and here
<Pici> tsimpson: Since no one reads our meeting logs? :P
<topyli> tsimpson: yes let's not let the thread die
<nhandler> [ACTION] topyli to send email regarding -lts channel to ML to express some of our views and let them know the issue is being discussed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to send email regarding -lts channel to ML to express some of our views and let them know the issue is being discussed
<nhandler> [AGREE] We will discuss this issue more at a future meeting after more discussion
<topyli> hahaha
<nhandler> Anything else that we need to cover?
<tsimpson> I think that's all, and we went an hour with only one agenda item ;)
<jussi> nope
<topyli> yes. why is getting-things-gnome broken? :/
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:58.
<nhandler> Good meeting everyone.
<nhandler> topyli: #ubuntu for support (or #ubuntu-lts if you are running lucid ;) )
<topyli> thanks guys
<topyli> :)
<Pici> sorry again, and I'll set an alarm for the next one ;)
 * tsimpson suggests KAlarm, because it's just so good
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-23
 * skaet waves
<bjf> o/
 * charlie-tca waves
<skaet> hi bjf,  charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> Good morning, skaet
<skaet> looks like its about that time
<skaet> not sure if we have quorum or not
<hggdh> morning all
<skaet> morning hggdh :)
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> SRU/LTS bi-weekly synch meeting.
<skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<brendand> morning everyone
<skaet> Karmic Koala (9.10) final announce is pending last kernel being published.
<skaet> Hardy Heron Desktop (8.04) is waiting for signal as well.
<skaet> Dapper Drake (6.06) Server will end of life in June 2011.
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
<skaet> 10.04.3 - July 14-> July 21 - moving it out a week to balance better around Alpha 2.
<skaet> ..
<skaet> bjf, sconklin when will the last kernel's be ready for publishing for Karmic and Hardy?
<sconklin> As soon as they are tested and cert and qa and the archive admins sign off. The stable kernel team is finished with them
<skaet> sconklin,  thanks.
<bjf> skaet, as per the email thread on this, this is not the last hardy kernel
<skaet> bjf,  ok,  will go back through my inbox carefully,  catching up right now after a week off.
<skaet> [TOPIC] Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel SRU status - sconklin, bjf
<sconklin> pretty much already been covered. everything is done for the last cycle
<sconklin> We're about to start another one.
<sconklin> The dates we're working toward are in the canonical kernel team calendar. When the master calender has dates, we'll work to them
<sconklin> sorry, ubuntu kernel calendar
<sconklin> ..
<brendand> o/
<skaet> brendand, go ahead
<brendand> does this commence the new 3 week cadence?
<sconklin> yes
<brendand> and is the new bug process going to be used?
<sconklin> "new bug process" == what?
 * JFo is curious
<sconklin> oh, you mean workflow tools
<sconklin> yes
<brendand> sorry, maybe wrong words. i mean the new SRU workflow
<sconklin> yes.
<brendand> and lastly, where is the ubuntu kernel calendar, for future reference?
<sconklin> looking for the url
<bjf> i'll find it
<skaet> sconklin, any concerns about 10.04.3 moving out a week?
<sconklin> skaet: first I heard about it. Is it in a calendar? probably not a problem but I didn't know we had a master schedule for the next cycle yet
<skaet> sconklin,  will be getting the master calendar up this week.  Just wanted to check with SRU kernel team before putting it up.
<skaet> and let others here following this have a chance to flag issues too ;)
<sconklin> I didn't know where it was scheduled originally even, so don;t know whether a week will make a difference
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<sconklin> but I doubt it will be a problem
<bjf> brendand, skaet, external url for the ubuntu kernel calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/hosted/canonical.com/embed?src=50d02kfdekgcjdcpc970hh83f0@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Los_Angeles&gsessionid=cp7W8N-DOwo48j_37lbwjg
<skaet> thanks bjf
<skaet> any other questions for the Kernel team?
<brendand> bjf - thanks
<skaet> [TOPIC] HW certification - ara
<MootBot> New Topic:  HW certification - ara
<ara> o/
<ara> brendand will be presenting for the HW certification team from this meeting on
<ara> brendand, ?
<brendand> == Hardware Certification SRU Update ==
<brendand> Certification testing completed for Lucid with 90/105 systems and tracking bug updated. Missing systems are due to lab issues.
<brendand> http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/lucid-proposed.html
<brendand> Maverick testing in progress. 74/119 systems tested. No regressions found so far.
<brendand> http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/maverick-proposed.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/lucid-proposed.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/maverick-proposed.html
<brendand> Natty testing in progress. 51/90 systems tested. No regressions found so far.
<brendand> http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/natty-proposed.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/sru-testing/current/natty-proposed.html
<brendand> ...
<skaet> welcome brendand :)
<skaet> what is the outlook on the final testing of Karmic and Hardy kernels?
<brendand> skaet - we aren't testing Karmic or Hardy
<skaet> brendand, we're at a bit of an impass then.
<bjf> o/
<skaet> final kernels have been published, and waiting for cert and qa to weigh in so we can announce EOL.
<skaet> bjf go ahead
<sconklin> o/
<bjf> i think we need someone from the QA team, but I think they were going to test this week
<sconklin> brad first
<ara> o/
<ara> :)
<bjf> ..
<sconklin> two things.
<skaet> jibel, hggdh, ^^ ??
<skaet> go ahead sconklin
<sconklin> First, slipping .3 a week actually lines up nicely with our schedule
<sconklin> second, this is not a final Lucid kernel. We need to stop writing that
<sconklin> sorry, Hardy
<sconklin> There is no final desktop kernel
<sconklin> we continue to produce kernels until server goes out of support
<sconklin> ..
<skaet> sconklin, you had me worried about the lucid ;)   noted about hardy- I'll be a bit more careful.
<sconklin> lucid's time will come ;-)
<skaet> ara,  go ahead
<ara> thanks
<ara> in the hw cert team we are never testing karmic or hardy. so you guys should only wait on QA for those two
<ara> ..
<skaet> hmm...
<skaet> I'm going to need to go do some homework then.
<skaet> will follow up on email list if warranted.
<skaet> anyone around from QA?
<hggdh> yes
<hggdh> skaet: ^
<skaet> :)
<hggdh> we will get it done
<skaet> hggdh,  cool.  you ready to give a status today, or will jibel be doing it?
<hggdh> skaet: I am not prepared for it, I would rather have jibel doing it (if you do not mind)
<skaet> no worries.
<skaet> any other questions for brendand ?
<skaet> [TOPIC] QA status - jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA status - jibel
 * skaet looks around for jibel?
<skaet> [TOPIC] OEM priorities - vanhoof
<MootBot> New Topic:  OEM priorities - vanhoof
<vanhoof> skaet: nothing pressing for the next cycle
<skaet> thanks vanhoof.
<skaet> is martin s. around?
<skaet> ok,
<skaet> pitti has a conflict - but no red flags from him.
<skaet> support has flagged two bugs to the individual teams
<skaet> TOPIC] New business, last chance for general questions? - all
<skaet> [TOPIC] New business, etc...
<MootBot> New Topic:  New business, etc...
<hggdh> skaet: for the record, hardy kernel was approved by QA last week
<skaet> thanks hggdh,  appreciate the update.  :)
 * skaet looks around
<hggdh> and we will start with Maverick this week (oldest pending kernel)
 * hggdh is done now ;-)
<skaet> hggdh,  could you look at Karmic so we can formally EOL it?
<hggdh> skaet: certainly
<skaet> thanks!
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:35.
<ara> thanks skaet
<skaet> thanks sconklin, bjf, ara, brendand, hggdh
<brendand> thanks skaet
<hggdh> thank you, skaet
<hggdh> skaet: I do not see any karmic kernel in http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/reports/sru-report.html
<skaet> hggdh,  lets take this up with sconklin and bjf in the #ubuntu-kernel channel.
<hggdh> skaet: roger wilco
<skaet> :)
<jdstrand> o/
<jjohansen> \o
<jdstrand> shall we get started?
<micahg> o/
<kees> \o
<sbeattie> o/
<jdstrand> hi everyone! :)
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:03. The chair is jdstrand.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
<jdstrand> blueprints should be (mostly) together now and our release status page up to date: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> our blueprints for this release of course fell out of our UDS discussions
<kees> oh good, I see the workitem tracker has been reset
<jdstrand> kees: yes! I had a feeling it would happen today :)
<jdstrand> I think kees and I need to still do some light review, but by and large the work items should be all set
<jdstrand> I don't think there is a lot to spec out, beyond dbus/apparmor
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week (yea)
<jdstrand> I have a dbus-glib update I am getting back into. some my testing for that will help me define the test cases for the dbus/apparmor bp, which I hope to start looking at again this week. depending on what pops up, it is at least theoretically possible for me to pick up another update
<jdstrand> other than a few administrative things that don't I don't need to waste time here with, I think that is it from me
<jdstrand> kees: you're up
<kees> okay, I'm on triage. I've at least got exim4 to do, and the hardy kernel announcement
<kees> after that, I'm trying to grind out all the graph data work items, since those should fall quickly if I can just get u-c-t to behave.
<jdstrand> \o/
<kees> I've got some oneiric kernel work to do too (nx-emu rebase)
 * jdstrand hugs kees
<kees> :)
 * kees hugs jdstrand
<kees> I'll probably have some MIR work sprinkled around too. we'll see. :)
<kees> that's it from me. mdeslaur is up.
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: is on holiday today
<jdstrand> s/:/
<jdstrand> s://
<jdstrand> hah
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up. I can't get my regex right
<kees> dur
<kees> heh
 * sbeattie waits for the regexs to finish.
<jdstrand> s/://
<jdstrand> :P
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week, after triaging last week.
<sbeattie> I have an apr update in the pipe, though I'm now trying to track down why the lucid arm build failed in a testcase.
<sbeattie> (hooray for the vagaries of chroot builds)
<sbeattie> after that, I want to start poking at my apparmor work items for this cycle.
<sbeattie> I also have some post uds administrivia to complete.
<jdstrand> interesting. I would guess that if it was armel, it wouldn't be chroot specific, but I've not looked at it at all
<jdstrand> (just armel that is)
 * jdstrand also has post uds administrivia
<sbeattie> jdstrand: the testcase that failed had to do with mutexs, so I'm suspecting that its a difference between kernels
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> fun
<sbeattie> yeah. and by yeah, I mean no.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<jdstrand> hehe
<jdstrand> micahg: you're up!
<micahg> so, I have that thunderbird regression with the empty menubar to publish today
<micahg> mozilla has announced some of there plans for release schedules
<micahg> 3.5 is EOL (doesn't afffect us, just seamonkey will need to go to 2.1.x)
<micahg> 3.6 will have updates for the moment
<micahg> 4's security update will be 5, so we'll have to upgrade natty on june 21
<nxvl> are we still talking about TB?
<micahg> nxvl: no, sorry, Firefox
<nxvl> i assumed :D
<micahg> Thunderbird will stay on 3.1.x for the moment
<micahg> natty will be our test migration case
<micahg> I'll be drafting a page to track what we need to do before the upgrade
<micahg> chrisccoulson has done some awesome work to make these transitions smoother WRT language updates
<micahg> we'll review at the rally how the natty upgrade went and plan the other migrations (firefox for lucid/maverick and thunderbird in stable)
<micahg> so, after drafting the initial plan, I want to try to get the pending webkit updates out
<micahg> and I'm expecting a chromium update either this week or early next week
<micahg> that's it for me
<jdstrand> micahg: sounds great. thanks!
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> jjohansen: I'll probably be talking to you later in the week re libapparmor for dbus (all I need is the api call and it to return something based on the env, like we discussed)
<jdstrand> other than that, I don't have anything to add
<jjohansen> jdstrand: okay, sounds good
<jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> going once...
<jdstrand> going twice...
<jdstrand> thanks everyone! :)
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<kees> thanks jdstrand!
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<jdstrand> you bet! :)
<Laney> DMB?
 * stgraber waves
 * Laney rings a bell
 * bdrung_ waves.
<Laney> hiya
<stgraber> I was just checking my calendar to make sure I didn't have timezone conversion issue again ;)
<psusi> o/
<Laney> google now reminds me via SMS :-)
<Laney> persia: maco cody-somerville
<persia> o/
<maco> hello
<stgraber> wow, we almost have everyone around this time!
<Laney> who wants to chair?
<Laney> (we should start deciding at the end of the meeting)
<persia> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:04. The chair is persia.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<persia> [TOPIC] Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues
<persia> cody-somerville, ?
<Laney> don't think he is here, and this has been on the agenda for /months/ now
<persia> We should have done it last time: he was there then.
<persia> Right.
<Laney> We're waiting for a report.
<persia> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Application for John Rigby
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Application for John Rigby
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnRigby/DeveloperApplication-LinaroLinuxAndUBoot
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnRigby/DeveloperApplication-LinaroLinuxAndUBoot
<persia> jcrigby, How are you today?
<jcrigby> yes for once:)
<ScottK> On the kmos issue, I think it's a bit unfair to leave it there where people who are interested in the topic never know when it's going to come up.
<ScottK> I wish you all would pick a meeting when you're going to deal with it and get it over with.
<Laney> We should take it to mail and bring it back when it's ready.
<Laney> I agree
<cody-somerville> Apologies about the kmos situation. +1 for Laney and ScottK's suggestion.
<persia> [AGREED] Remove Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues from the agenda until there is planned discussion
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Remove Review progress of probationary period of Marco Rodrigues from the agenda until there is planned discussion
<persia> jcrigby, Thanks for coming today.
<jcrigby> glad to be here
<persia> jcrigby, Are you involved in Ubuntu in any way beyond the packages you mention?
<jcrigby> not really no
<hrw> hi
<hrw> do we have quorum today?
<bdrung_> yes
<maco> yes
<persia> jcrigby, What do you find most difficult about packaging best practices?
<jcrigby> remembering the incantations
<Laney> jcrigby: (after persia's question[s]) Can you briefly explain the major freezes in the Ubuntu development cycle and how they affect your packages?
<jcrigby> Laney, I am obviously unprepared for that one
<bdrung_> jcrigby: why do we have special linaro packages in addition to the normal package (e.g. u-boot and u-boot-linaro)?
<jcrigby> Linaro is on its own schedule
<maco> oh, good to know
<jcrigby> bdrung_, actually u-boot-linaro is the only u-boot now days
<jcrigby> ubuntu uses u-boot-linaro
<Laney> Are these packages not subject to the Ubuntu release schedule?
<hrw> maco: we (Linaro) release ~month after Ubuntu
<jcrigby> Laney, for this oneiric Linaro is releasing monthly
<hrw> maco: but recently we switched most of teams to monthly releases
<bdrung_> jcrigby: what does u-boot-linaro contain in comparison to upstream u-boot?
<jcrigby> Laney, and for releases after ff we will release via a ppa to avoid sru issues
<persia> I believe the packages *should* be subject to the release schedule, as there are images that depend upon them shipped as part of the release.
<maco> jcrigby: was that ff = feature freeze or final freeze?
<jcrigby> maco final
<jcrigby> we can do ffe's for feature freeze
<persia> jcrigby, What considerations do you make when requesting an FFe?
<jcrigby> at that point I only allow bug fixes that are must haves for the release
<jcrigby> no new "nice" features
<persia> Do you maintain separate for-ubuntu and linaro-next trees for this?
 * cody-somerville has to jet; will write e-mail to DMB when I get back.
<Laney> see you
<jcrigby> persia, I keep -next git trees but those do not have packaging bits in them
<jcrigby> persia, they are for board enablement folks
<persia> That makes sense.
<jcrigby> on the kernel side I actually do keep a work in progress (wip) tree that does have the packaging in it
<jcrigby> that is for people that are willing to build there own packaged kernel
<jcrigby> and I have tried to help people that want to do that but lack the knowledge
<jcrigby> I have also helped the linaro landing teams with their packagig
<jcrigby> since they are usually enablement people not packaging people
<persia> Anyone else with more questions?
<Laney> nope
<stgraber> nope
<maco> nope
<geser> nope
<bdrung_> nope
<persia> [VOTE] Approve John Rigby (jcrigby) for PerPackage Upload rights to u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro-*
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve John Rigby (jcrigby) for PerPackage Upload rights to u-boot-linaro and linux-linaro-*.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Laney> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Laney. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<stgraber> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 0 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 1 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1 given slangasek's testimonial and an understanding of FF, i'm ok with him
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 2
<bdrung_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung_. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 4
<persia> jcrigby, Congratulations.
<stgraber> jcrigby: congrats!
<jcrigby> thanks
<Laney> :-)
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for  Phillip Susi
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for  Phillip Susi
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
<persia> psusi, Thanks for coming today.
<persia> Or,maybe next time.
<maco> psusi: care to introduce?
<maco> brad figg i guess?
<persia> [TOPIC] PerPackage Uploader application for Brad Figg
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackage Uploader application for Brad Figg
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BradFigg/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BradFigg/DeveloperApplication
<JFo> yay bjf!
<persia> bjf, Thanks for coming today
<bjf> np
<Laney> Isn't there a kernel package set?
<stgraber> there's
<persia> You ask for upload rights to the linux-* packages.  Do you want that, or did you mean to apply to be part of the kernel uploaders team?
<maco> i think this was clarified on email as "kernel package set"
<persia> I thought so, just wanted to be clear.
<stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/612008/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/612008/
<persia> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders
<bjf> I'm Brad Figg. I've been an Ubuntu contributor since joining Canonical two years ago. I am a member of the Kernel Team.
<bjf> I've been a linux developer/user for many years.
<maco> "I was just trying to be clear what I was asking for, if there is a kernel package set then that is what I'm going for."  <-- what brad said when Laney asked
<bjf> I am currently working on the stable kernel maintenance.  I've been doing stable kernel maintenance for two dev cycles and am schedule to continue doing same for another two cycles.
<bjf> I'm applying for upload rights for the linux kernel packages.
<bjf> I'm proud of the stable work that I've done, we've made some significant changes to the
<bjf> stable maintenance process.
<bjf> ~
<bjf> i'm good at cut/paste if that is a requirement :-)
<sconklin> fwiw I've been signing Brad's packages (sponsoring his uploads) for six months, and he's fully capable
<Laney> Can you explain how a stable kernel update is typically QAd?
<Laney> Also, does the kernel team work with Debian's at all? ;-)
<bjf> laney, it's a multi-step process, are you familiar with the kernel cadence that we've gone to?
<Laney> somewhat
 * bdrung_ isn't.
<persia> Please share
<bjf> laney, yes, we discuss things regularly with the debian kernel folks
<bjf> persia, will do :-)
<persia> (especially as ogasawara credits you with bringing order to it)
<sconklin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/StableReleaseCadence
<bjf> currently, we are moving to a three week cadence
<sconklin> excuse me pasting links
<bjf> week 1, we prepare kernels and upload packages (upload to the kernel team ppa)
<bjf> week 2, we require verification of LP bugs that have been fixed via the uploaded kernel
<bjf> any bugs that fail verification or are not verified, the corresponding commits are reverted and new packages are uploaded
<bjf> week 3, the QA and Certification teams take over, and run their tests.
<Laney> when does the upload to -proposed happen? what kind of interaction is there with the Ubuntu SRU team?
<maco> bjf: ever had any problems where the reverts after week 2 caused regressions, maybe due to side-effects/interactions between patches & disappearing patches?
<bjf> the QA tests are composed of: qbench, tbench tiobench, security tests (crafted by the security team) and some ltp lite tests
<Laney> (and regular SRU verification)
<bjf> laney, generally we just ping them to pocket-copy, we are changing this as well to use an LP bug for workflow, maybe sconklin can post a url for that as well :-)
<sconklin> looking
<persia> bjf, pocket-copy to where?
<bjf> maco, yes, same proceedure, we revert the commit, roll a new package and upload
<bjf> persia, from our ppa to -proposed
<bjf> maco, once the new package has been uploaded, qa and cert testing starts again
<bjf> maco, this could go on for some time, however, it hasn't in the last two dev cycles
 * Laney is done with questions
<bjf> laney, maco, bdrung_ persia the purpose of moving to this cadence is predictability
<maco> bjf: thanks, thats the bit i was unsure about :)
<bjf> it was very difficult in the past to be able to give some indication of when a patch was going to get out
 * sconklin is unable to get launchpad qastaging to do anything other than time out
<sconklin> that's where our example bug is
<bjf> as it is now, worst case (baring reversions) is 6 weeks from when a patch is accepted until it hits -updates
<bdrung_> bjf: some packagers feel that it's hard to get their changes into the kernel due to all the rules. are there plans to change that?
<bjf> bdrung_, no changes to the rules, we are actually quite flexible (our opinion) and will discuss changes with anyone
<bjf> bdrung_, however, stability is crucial
<sconklin> here's one that doesn't have the team assignments made, but you can see how we track workflow tasks https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/kernel-sru-workflow/verification-testing/+bug/718866
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 718866 in unity-2d "[panel] Indicator list is hardcoded" [Medium,Fix released]
<bjf> sconklin, thanks
<persia> bjf: In your application, you seem to have skipped one of my favourite bits: What single thing in Ubuntu do you think should most be improved?
<bdrung_> bjf: i was thinking about changes for the development version (currently oneiric).
<bjf> persia, thinking about it
<bjf> bdrung_, well, we certainly prefer that we get any changes from upstream or that the changes we take are heading upstream, we are not a test kernel for everyone's crack
<bjf> bdrung_, the larger the community, the more conservative we need to be
<bdrung_> bjf: i can remember that i once want to push a fix from lirc into the kernel. it took me ages to do that.
<bjf> bdrung_, we are already put out the most recent upstream kernel of any distro (i mean we track the upstream kernel the closest)
<bjf> bdrung_, were your changes going upstream?
<bdrung_> bjf: it was a backported upstream patch
<bjf> bdrung_, ok, i don't know the specifics, but that usually fits within our rules, it can depend on the complexity of the backport though
<bdrung_> i found it: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lirc/0.8.6-0ubuntu4.1
<bjf> bdrung_, our rules are not much difference than those of upstream stable maint.
<bdrung_> the process for the kernel felt very bureaucratic
<bjf> bdrung_, it can be, but again, stability and no-regressions are what we are striving for
<sconklin> This is team policy and not Brad's. If upstream won't take it, it's very unlikely we will.
<bjf> persia, i still don't really know how to answer your question, there are specific parts of the distro that i'd like to see changed/influenced (like the switch to unity)
<maco> persia: that's the part i always want to skip too
<bjf> persia, i also think UDS could be better in certain ways
<persia> bjf, Well, I'd encourage you to think about it.  We know we aren't perfect, but unless we can identify what is wrong, it's hard to improve.
<bjf> persia, remember, i'm kind of an old fart, i like my desktop the way that it was, this new fangled stuff takes some getting used to :-)
<persia> On a related note, what do you feel is your weakest skill in developing for Ubuntu?
<bjf> and i'm resisting
<bjf> my first thoughts would be in interaction with the community, but i've been told that i'm not as bad as i think
<bdrung_> bjf, sconklin: ok
<bjf> to me, this is mostly a job and not my life
<bdrung_> bjf: re unity - all the gnome-panel lovers could unity and maintain gnome-panel. then a user can decide between unity, gnome3, and ubuntu classic (gnome-panel)
<bjf> bdrung_, agreed
<persia> geser, stgraber, any questions?
<stgraber> nope
<geser> nope
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Brad Figg (bjf) as an Ubuntu Kernel Uploader
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Brad Figg (bjf) as an Ubuntu Kernel Uploader.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<Laney> +1 // Strong testimonials, obviously good skills in designing the new cadence
<MootBot> +1 received from Laney. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
<bdrung_> can we extend this meeting one hour to reduce the backlog?
<persia> bjf, Congratulations!
 * persia can stay
<ogasawara> \o/, congrats bjf
<bjf> thanks!
<sconklin> \o/
<bdrung_> congrats
<stgraber> not sure I can stay for another full hour, but at least for another ~30 minutes
 * hrw can appear at 30-40 minutes from now. have to go now
<sconklin> less work for me!
<persia> We need one more to stay quorate.
<maco> guess i can stick around a bit longer
<Laney> I've got to be on the water in 30 minutes, I'm afraid
 * hrw -> out for now
<persia> No worries.  It's a one-hour meeting.  Extension is purely voluntary :)
<persia> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader application for  Rosen Diankov
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader application for  Rosen Diankov
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosenDiankov/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosenDiankov/DeveloperApplication
 * geser has time to process some more
<stgraber> anyone knows his IRC nickname ? can't find it on either the wiki page or on LP
<persia> Neither I.
<persia> Rosen, are you here?
<persia> OK.  Moving on.
<persia> [TOPIC] Review of Bazaar Package Set
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of Bazaar Package Set
<persia> poolie, jelmer, do you have time to discuss this?
<psusi> shoot, I had to run home to meet the cable guy, did I miss it again?
<persia> psusi, You did, but we extended, so you're next.
<psusi> whew...
<persia> Any DMB members have comments on the Bazaar Package set they want in minutes?
<bdrung_> psusi: one question to think about: What do you like least in Ubuntu?
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication
<geser> persia: is there much to discuss about the bzr package set besides what packages belong there?
<bdrung_> persia: a Bazaar package set sounds plausable
<persia> Sorry.  I was too fast.
<persia> [TOPIC] Review of Bazaar Package Set
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review of Bazaar Package Set
<persia> geser, I don't think so, really.
<persia> bdrung_, Do you suggest we should just do it, as we have two PPUs who have the same set?
<stgraber> IIRC the DMB was the one asking for the set when reviewing jelmer's application. List looks good to me (quite similar to an "apt-cache search bzr" and matches rights we've already given to these applying for bzr upload rights)
<maco> persia: i'm in favour of it
<stgraber> +1
<persia> OK.
<stgraber> they are quite likely to ask for the same packages to be added to their respective PPU lists, so it's best to create a package set for it
<geser> +1 for a bzr package set based on the bzr ppu right from jelmer and poolie
<persia> [VOTE] Create a Bazaar Package Set and migrate poolie and jelmer to membership in an associated group.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Create a Bazaar Package Set and migrate poolie and jelmer to membership in an associated group..
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1 : makes our lives easier, really
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> That was easy :)
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Ricardo Salveti
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RicardoSalveti/UniverseContributorApplication
<persia> rsalveti, Thanks for being here today
<bdrung_> this seems to be a good way. let the people get PPU right and create a set if two people have the same package in their list
<persia> Indeed.
<stgraber> yep
<geser> persia: can you please add the bzr packages to the minutes? to have them documented somewhere easy to find again later
<persia> geser, The list? Sure.
<persia> Well, maybe not.  We'll come back.
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer application for Phillip Susi
<geser> persia: or the wildcards (e.g. bzr-*)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer application for Phillip Susi
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhillipSusi/DeveloperApplication
 * hrw back in 3
<maco> did psusi come back?
<psusi> yes
<persia> psusi, Glad you could make it (even a bit late).
<stgraber> yeah! ;)
<maco> oh hello
<psusi> woohoo, finally ;)
<persia> psusi, So, now that you've had some time to think, what do you like least in Ubuntu?
<psusi> I've not really been able to come up with an answer to that really... I dislike bugs
<persia> Do you think we could do a better job to squash bugs somehow?
<psusi> other than more manpower?
<bdrung_> psusi: how to get more manpower into this area and how to use the manpower more efficiently
<bdrung_> ?
<persia> If you think that's the solution, I'll ask how you think we can attract the necessary resources :)
<persia> (if you have another solution, please share)
<geser> psusi: picking up the question from your application page: did you think about maintaining e2defrag in Debian?
<psusi> I think the system is pretty efficient
<psusi> especially these days with UDS
<bdrung_> psusi: are you happy about the sponsoring?
<psusi> err, UDD
<psusi> yea... UDD sponsorship has become very smooth lately, especially with the patch pilot program
<bdrung_> great to hear that
<maco> any parts of the bug triage/squash process that you think are particularly in need of change?
<psusi> I'm not a debian user so that would make becoming a DD a bit tricky I think
<maco> psusi: i'm not either, but i'm going through the DM process *duck*
<bdrung_> psusi: you don't have to be a debian user. you don't even need to be a DD for maintaining a package in debian.
<maco> (DM is like PPU)
<psusi> I may end up doing that eventually, but I figured I'd start with motu
<bdrung_> psusi: it's easier to start with DM if you really care about a specific package (especially if it's new)
<persia> Anyone with further questions for psusi?
<bdrung_> no
<psusi> actually I guess one thing that bothers me is bugs that sit around for years and grow stale and ignored
<stgraber> persia: I'm ready to vote
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Phillip Susi (psusi) as a Contributing Developer
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Phillip Susi (psusi) as a Contributing Developer.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<bdrung_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung_. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<persia> +1 : Your work goes well beyond the usual measurement of significant and sustained
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> psusi, Congratulations !
<psusi> woohoo!  finally ;)
<stgraber> psusi: congrats!
<bdrung_> persia: especially sustained
<persia> stgraber, You said you might have to go?
<stgraber> how many more do we have ?
<persia> bdrung_, Yeah.  I remember psusi being around when I was still lurking.
<persia> stgraber, 2 noshows and 2 outstanding.
<hrw>  /me ?
 * bdrung_ is still here.
<stgraber> ok, I can still continue for a while
<persia> [TOPIC] Contributing Developer Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz
<MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing Developer Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplication-PPU
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplication-PPU
<persia> hrw, Yes, you :)
<hrw> persia: PPU finally
<persia> [TOPIC] PerPackageUploader Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz
<MootBot> New Topic:  PerPackageUploader Application for Marcin Juszkiewicz
<persia> Apologies: it's just after sunrise here.
<hrw> no problem
<hrw> I got universe contributor last time
<hrw> I maintain cross toolchain for armel and armhf architectures
<bdrung_> hi hrw
<hrw> armel is present in Debian and Ubuntu, armhf is on a way to Debian and also may be added into Ubuntu. At Linaro we want armhf to e present in both distributions
<persia> I've seen a few complaints about our documentation in the past few days.  Anyone up for trying to dredge through it and submit a new draft?
<geser> what "flavour" of ARM is armhf?
<persia> OK.  I'll table that for later.
<hrw> geser: armv7, hardfloat
<hrw> geser: no neon by default due to tegra2
<ScottK> How runtime Neon detection working for Qt currently?
<hrw> ScottK: have to admit that I lost track on this - spent most time in toolchain
<ScottK> OK.
<bdrung_> hrw: the packages you request upload rights for doesn't seem to exist
<hrw> bdrung_: armhf ones are same as armel ones - did not get yet uploaded
<hrw> bdrung_: the only difference is s/armel/armhf/ in changelog and regenerataion of control file
 * persia recommended this list to hrw in OOB discussions, as the other packages were expected to be uploaded fairly soon, and our board isn't so fast.
<bdrung_> hrw: i fail to find the armel ones, e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.6-armel-cross
<hrw> bdrung_: 4.6 was not in natty - I have version working with sid and oneiric
<hrw> bdrung_: let me give git url
<geser> hrw: are the *-armel-* and *-armhf-* different source packages?
 * ScottK would like to recommend hrw for his photography skills as he took the Kubuntu group photo at UDS. ;-)
<hrw> http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/hrw/cross-toolchain-packaging.git;a=summary is linaro tree
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=people/hrw/cross-toolchain-packaging.git;a=summary is linaro tree
<hrw> geser: yes, they are separate but share 100%
<geser> hrw: isn't it possible to build both from the same source package or is there any reason for the duplication?
<hrw> geser: I am in a middle of creating one source for armel/armhf of each component and merging gcc-4.[456]-*-cros into one source or source package
<hrw> geser: during uds-n we decided to have cross toolchain source per arch
<hrw> geser: as Debian ones would do 11 arch builds and what if 9th fail after 30h of building?
<maco> ouch
<bdrung_> build time is a strong argument for separate packages
<hrw> in Ubuntu we handle 1 arch now (m,n) and now will have 2 (oneiric)
<hrw> Debian can have more of them.
<geser> hrw: Debian has 11 arm flavours?
<bdrung_> hrw: you are talking a lot about debian. will you try to upload the packages into debian first?
<hrw> geser: no, but emdebian team wants to replace their semi-auto built packages with mine
<hrw> bdrung_: once will get all patches landed in Debian yes
<hrw> bdrung_: merging all required changes into ubuntu took me half of maverick cycle
<hrw> bdrung_: my source packages works no changes under debian and ubuntu
<hrw> I have check on 'lsb_release -d' to take care of details
<hrw> also handle linaro toolchain backport ppa with same sources but thats a bit other story
<bdrung_> hrw: do you know dpkg-vendor?
<hrw> bdrung_: no, but will check it
<hrw> bdrung_: trick with lsb_release I took from gcc packaging
<hrw> during maverick I did cleanup of gcc/binutils packaging which ended in few thousand of lines dropped
<bdrung_> it's the preferred way to check the vendor (instead of lsb_release). advantage: no additional build dependency
<hrw> bdrung_: ok, gcc packaging has to work under dapper so maybe thats why
<bdrung_> hrw: yes, dpkg-vendor isn't that old
 * micahg thought dpkg-dev was needed for dpkg-vendor
<hrw> yep. 2009 according to manpage
<hrw> micahg: I already bdepend on dpkg-dev
<hrw> micahg: and you are right - dpkg-vendor is dpkg-dev
<bdrung_> micahg: build-essential depends on dpkg-dev
<bdrung_> so you get it for free (on compile time)
<tumbleweed> a versioned dependancy on it may be needed
<hrw>  dpkg-dev (>= 1.15.3.1) is what I need already
<hrw> due to components needs (binutils, linux, gcc, eglibc)
<persia> So, while it's interesting to discuss ways of aligning packages between distributions, are there more questions to prepare to vote on hrw's application?
<hrw> ;)
<micahg> bdrung_: ah, that's what it was, a higher versioned build-dep was necessary :()
<hrw> dpkg-vendor is 1.15.1
<hrw> and I already need 1.15.3.1 so yes - good thing to switch to
 * bdrung_ is ready to vote
 * geser too
 * stgraber too
<persia> [VOTE] Approve Marcin Juszkiewicz for PPU upload of armel-cross-toolchain-base gcc-4.4-armel-cross gcc-4.5-armel-cross gcc-defaults-armel-cross and recommend addition of armhf and 4.6 packages as they become available
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Marcin Juszkiewicz for PPU upload of armel-cross-toolchain-base gcc-4.4-armel-cross gcc-4.5-armel-cross gcc-defaults-armel-cross and recommend addition of armhf and 4.6 packages as they become available.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<stgraber> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<bdrung_> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from bdrung_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<persia> +1 : hrw is definitely the driving force behind these packages, and fixes many other things in his quest to make them better
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<persia> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<persia> hrw Congratulations
<hrw> thanks guys
 * persia is out of time
<persia> Oh.
<hrw> now I will give you a bit of time free from me and in some time will apply for motu
<persia> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
 * persia claims repeats should be avoided
<hrw> to not interrupt ubuntu/arm (and others) with debdiffs fixing armel ftfbs'
<bdrung_> i don't know if i can attend the next meeting. therefore i am not a good candidate for the chair.
<stgraber> I can do it
<persia> [AGREED} stgraber will chair the next meeting
<MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} stgraber will chair the next meeting
<hrw> have a nice rest of day - 22:53 here and I promised my daughter to read a book before sleep
<persia> #nedmeeting
<persia> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:54.
<persia> Thanks everyone for staying the extra hour.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-24
<cp1> The calendar appears to have multiple meetings scheduled at the same time coming up. Has anyone been working on resolving it?
<JFo> cp1, what calendar are you referring to?
<smoser> cp1, JFo probably http://www.ubuntu-news.org/calendars/fridge/
<smoser> which, does in fact show overlaping meetings
<charlie-tca> but it does depend on where the meeting is held, too.
<Daviey> Hello!
<cp1> It is supposed to be in UTC time, so it shouldn't matter where you are.  I have it available via my google cal and it adjusts to EST.
<JFo> cp1, oh right, not all of those meetings are held in this chanel
<hallyn> \o
<JFo> interesting that the app review board meeting is scheduled to be at 5 though
<smb> Just minor nitpick that the headline says fridge calendar is used for #ubuntu-meeting... :-P
<cp1> I sent an email to the two people running the conflicting meetings.
 * JFo goeas away
<smb> But we are invading server-team meeting
<cp1> Yes we invaded, or they haven't started yet...
<smb> They try :)
<robbiew> get out
<smb> \o
<robbiew> lol
<charlie-tca> Also, sometimes the meeting times get confused and come out wrong
 * hallyn holds off on hitting the trigger
<SpamapS> o/
<Daviey> hallyn, just shoot them all.
<hallyn> are we good to go, or should another meeting take precedence?
<hallyn> ok
<hallyn> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:05. The chair is hallyn.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<RoAkSoAx> o/
<Daviey> \o
<hallyn> oh no, my clipboard isn't working, this is gonna be a slow one
<SpamapS> already on oneiric? ;)
<robbiew> oh man...don't get me started
<Daviey> oneiric is rocking.
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Review ACTION items from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION items from previous meeting
<hallyn> no items?
<Daviey> don't think there was
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Oneiric Development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Development
<Daviey> Review blueprints!
<Daviey> Thanks everyone who filed their blueprints already.
<Daviey> This Thursday is feature definition freeze
<Daviey> This means that they should all be squared away by then.
<Daviey> We really, really need peer reviews
<RoAkSoAx> mine are waiting review
<Daviey> (open to everyone in ~ubuntu-server)
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<SpamapS> ugh..
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, I thought i sent you a mail asking some questions yesterday? :)
<hallyn> action?
 * SpamapS needs to finish boot-experience spec.. :-P
<zul> i would like some reviews as well
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: uhmmmmmmm I didn't receive anything
<RoAkSoAx> :S
<Daviey> Blueprints are the most important outcome of this week, really.
<hallyn> [ACTION] All: spec peer reviews
<MootBot> ACTION received:  All: spec peer reviews
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: maybe you forgot to clic send :D
 * Daviey checks
<robbiew> what
<robbiew> no
<robbiew> I got iut
<robbiew> it
<hallyn> Daviey: for the meeting notes, what's that link again to get the list of server specs?
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Subject: Infrastructure power management (server-o-infra-power) ?
<smoser> what does "spec peer reviews" mean ?
<Daviey> anyway, we'll take that out of band.
<robbiew> hallyn:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-o?searchtext=server-o
<smoser> where would i do such a thing ?
<robbiew> sort by spec name
<Daviey> smoser, Question the implementation, and direction.
<hallyn> thx
<smoser> where?
 * Daviey will send a post to ubuntu-server ml today with further details.
<smoser> in the whiteboard ?
<Daviey> smoser, on the whiteboard.
<smoser> what a messy place for such a thing. I have no suggestion for anything better.
<smoser> but conversations there are just about impssible to follow.
<robbiew> fwiw,  all approved blueprints can be found here: http://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: no nothign... didn't receive anything.. that bluprint is being driven by Arnaud from Eaton btw
<hallyn> [LINK] http://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
<hallyn> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-o?searchtext=server-o
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-o?searchtext=server-o
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: cause it is not powernap :), but rather NUT
<Daviey> RoAkSoAx, Yeah, i was asking input - i'll send it again.
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: cool ;)
<Daviey> That is all from me..
<Daviey> ta
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server Team Events
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<hallyn> anything new coming up?
<hallyn> i intend to be at first part of plumber's for security mini-conf
<Daviey> Nothing exciting comes to mind... i think we are all still resting.
<Daviey> hallyn, Oh - interesting.. we all look forward to the blog post covering that.
<hallyn> moving on, then
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<hallyn> hggdh: around?
<hallyn> ok, moving on
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<hallyn> smb: hey
<smb> hello
<smb> Just one reminder about my asking about iscsitarget to be only userspace dkms for oneiric.
<smb> I think it should be ok as it is imo not required for installation or boot
<hallyn> any questions for smb?
 * smb wonders whether he got moderated out of server-ml
<hallyn> huh
<Daviey> smb, no - i waved you through
<smb> Daviey, Ta. :)
<hallyn> ok, moving on then
<smb> (actually meant still stuck in the moderation queue)
<smb> ok with me
<hallyn> Daviey: want an action to push that through? :)
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> hallyn / smb: i passed your message through the queue when you sent it.
<cp1> I wanted to ask about how we might do a better job with security updates.  For example the last exim update was kind of slow compared to Debian, and if I had known about it earlier I could have helped patch it and get it out sooner. In that case some people at exim.org knew about the issue about a month ahead of time.  So how can we improve issues like that?
<smb> Daviey, Understood that. Just thought my initial question was not put the right way
<hallyn> does the security team have a list of pending security updates, for volunteers to look through?
<hallyn> jdstrand: ^
<Daviey> non embargoed ones, i guess.
<Daviey> I don't know that you can split bugs by server, and security in launchpad easily.
<kees> hallyn: yes: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
<hallyn> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/main.html
<dholbach> Daviey, package sets!
<hallyn> kees: thanks
<jdstrand> hallyn: yes, it is incorporated into the sponsoring list and patch piloting. that said, we will be offering up 10-15 packages a month for people to contribue to, as part of the security-o-community bp
<kees> hallyn: and if you want to watch specific package, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/
<ScottK> If you are aware of an embargoed issue and have a patch, you can file a private security bug with it so the security team can get a running start at it.
<ScottK> cp1: ^^^
<jdstrand> hallyn: this is of course all in addition to what kees just mentioned
<ScottK> I've done this a number of times and it's worked out nicely.
<hallyn> jdstrand: ScottK: dholbach: thanks :)
<hallyn> cp1: maybe you can convert that to an rss feed :)
<cp1> My problem is I wasn't aware of it early enough.
<kees> cp1: if you want to watch exim4 specifically, this works: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/exim4.html
<hallyn> Right, whatever form the list takes - or if you watch one of the many CVE lists - you do simply need to watch it or have a running search for exim
<cp1> CVE tagging isn't always helpful, for example mhonarc has some issues now and the bug in lauchpad doesn't have the CVE's associated with it.
<hallyn> just have a cronjob scrape it daily and check for diffs...
<hallyn> So we need to do a better job with taggin?
<Daviey> yah.. more stuff to do :)
<hallyn> cp1: let's discuss anything further in #ubuntu-hardened
<hallyn> moving on,
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<hallyn> any?
<Daviey> Blueprints, Blueprints and Blueprints
<Daviey> :)
<SpamapS> BadgersBadgersBadgers
 * RoAkSoAx hates university's wifi network :)
<hallyn> I'm hoping to fill in the packaging requests for all spice related packages before i slip away
<ttx> RoAkSoAx: switch :)
<SpamapS> hallyn: do not go quietly into the night
<RoAkSoAx> ttx: can't... I'm gonna be here for the rest of the day
<ScottK> hallyn: You know what packaging requests get you, right?
<RoAkSoAx> :(
<ScottK> hallyn: With a packaging request and a package you've created then you'll get a package.
<hallyn> ScottK: not sure i follow
<Daviey> 1. Packaging Request
<Daviey> 2. Package
<Daviey> 3 Profit!
<RoAkSoAx> Daviey: 3. Upload
<Daviey> We've solved it.
<RoAkSoAx> 4. Profit
<hallyn> yeah, i did them out of order...
<hallyn> dat be how i roll
<Daviey> Thanks for the meeting hallyn .
<hallyn> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<SpamapS> One more topic.. any pies in the face planned for UDS-P ?
<hallyn> Tuesday, May 31st 2011 16:00 UTC
<ScottK> hallyn: Just filing package requests almost never results in an actual package being created.
<zul> SpamapS:  yeah thats what motivates me ;)
<hallyn> ScottK: i just want the permission to upload them to universe :)
<hallyn> ScottK: you're just telling me i need to do the packaging, right?
<ScottK> hallyn: No packaging bug is needed for that.
<ScottK> yes.
<SpamapS> hallyn: quick end it before it grows another head!
<hallyn> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:29.
<hallyn> :)
<hallyn> ScottK: yup, thanks
<hallyn> thanks all, see ya
<SpamapS> hallyn: ty!
<ScottK> There is no requirement in Ubuntu for such things.
<ScottK> No requirement in Debian either, but Lintian tells fibs about that.
<hallyn> ScottK: lemme move to #ubuntu-server and inquire further
<ScottK> OK
<bjf> tick
<bjf> tock
<jjohansen> \o
<ppisati> o/
<apw> o/
<herton> o/
<smb> \o
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> #startmeeting
<JFo> o/
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Natty
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something you'd like to add (wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> #
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics (JFo)
<JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (0 bugs, 18 Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Release Milestoned Bugs (24 across all packages) ====
<JFo>  * 0 linux kernel bugs ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-ti-omap4 bugs ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug ()
<JFo> ==== Release Targeted Bugs (171 across all packages) ====
<JFo>  * 21 linux kernel bugs ()
<JFo>  * 6 linux-ti-omap4 bugs ()
<JFo>  * 0 linux-meta-ti-omap4 bug ()
<JFo> ==== Milestoned Features ====
<JFo>  * 1 blueprint (Including HWE Blueprints)
<JFo> ==== Natty Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 28 Linux Bugs ()
<JFo> ==== Maverick Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 5 Linux Bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== Lucid Updates Bugs ====
<JFo>  * 17 Linux Bugs (up 1)
<JFo> ==== Bugs with Patches Attached:90 (up 3) ====
<JFo>  * [[https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on | Bugs with Patches]]
<JFo>  * [[http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/ | Breakdown by status]]
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Bug Handling (JFo)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-bug-handling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Bug Handling (JFo)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-bug-handling
<JFo> All alpha 1 items are in progress:
<JFo> [jeremyfoshee] work with SRU team and KRM to develop/define process for addressing development kernel bugs.: INPROGRESS
<JFo>  * started this conversation with an e-mail.
<JFo> [jeremyfoshee] Generate specific hotlist for devel bugs focus: INPROGRESS
<JFo>  * will initially use the same requirements as the 'by team' hotlist, but focused on Oneiric
<JFo>  * copied the hotlist script and currently working through changes
<JFo> [jeremyfoshee] drive new state bugs to 0 and maintain 0 new status bugs daily: INPROGRESS
<JFo>  * 8 current oneiric bugs. All have been initially triaged and are now going through deeper analysis
<JFo>  * so far this has helped me determine what skills I'd like to further develop
<JFo> [jeremyfoshee] identify which scripts we no longer run which we should port forward (with the aim of 0 New bugs): INPROGRESS
<JFo>  * Brad's confirmed script is doing a great job currently of identifying what bugs are complete
<JFo>    enough to be set confirmed
<JFo>  * Started the discussion on this in e-mail. Will follow up with some thoughts as soon as I have had the time
<JFo>    to evaluate the responses and chatted with Pete (he's been quite busy lately :))
<JFo> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Config Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-config-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Config Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-config-review
<ogasawara> We just need to schedule a follow on config review session to look at jj's config comparisons.  I suggest we do this at the Rally.  I'm continuing to work through some of the config options noted from UDS, none of which are critical for the Alpha-1 release.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Delta Review (ogasawara)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-ubuntu-delta-review
<ogasawara> apw, bjf, jjohansen, kees, lag, manjo, mpoirier, ralveti, rtg: you have Alpha-1 work items to review your set of Ubuntu patches.  Please take a moment to review or postpone till Alpha-2. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelOneiricUbuntuDeltaReview for your specific set of patches.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: Oneiric Server Requirements (smb)
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-kernel-o-server-requirements
<smb> All good (nothing started)
<smb> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: General Oneiric (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've uploaded the 2.6.39-3.9 kernel which is based on upstream v2.6.39 final.  I intend to keep us on v2.6.39 final for our Alpha-1 release on Thurs June 2.
<ogasawara> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Stable Kernel Team (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || All kernel packages in -proposed have had verification complete and will be published when Certification and
<sconklin> || QA are complete (Not all series receive Certification). The Stable team will prepare new kernel packages this
<sconklin> || week to begin a new cycle.
<sconklin> ||
<sconklin> || As decided at UDS, the stable kernel cadence will change to a three week cycle, in order to allow time to
<sconklin> || properly prepare the kernel packages
<sconklin> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin / bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Maverick/Lucid/Hardy (sconklin / bjf)
<sconklin> Oh, forgot to mention that we Have Herton helping us now (YAY)
<sconklin> || Package                                    || Upd/Sec              || Proposed             ||  TiP || Verified ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || lucid    linux-ec2                         || 2.6.32-314.27        || 2.6.32-316.31        ||    8 ||        8 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.32.31.23         || 2.6.32.32.24         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-lts-backport-maverick  || 2.6.35.25.36         || 2.6.35.28.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-lts-backport-maverick       || 2.6.35-25.44~lucid1  || 2.6.35-28.50~lucid1  ||   13 ||       13 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.32    || 2.6.32-31.31         || 2.6.32-32.32         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.34.7               || 1.34.10              ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.32-31.61         || 2.6.32-32.62         ||    4 ||        4 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.32.31.37         || 2.6.32.32.38         ||    1 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ec2                    || 2.6.32.314.15        || 2.6.32.316.17        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || maverick linux-ports-meta                  || 2.6.35.28.21         || 2.6.35.29.22         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.35    || 2.6.35-28.20         || 2.6.35-29.21         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        || 2.6.35.28.36         || 2.6.35.29.37         ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-firmware                    || 1.38.6               || 1.38.8               ||    1 ||        0 ||
<smb> \o
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             || 2.6.35-28.50         || 2.6.35-29.51         ||   11 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> || natty    linux-ti-omap4                    ||                      || 2.6.38-1209.13       ||   10 ||       10 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-backports-modules-2.6.38    ||                      || 2.6.38-9.3           ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta-ti-omap4               ||                      || 2.6.38.1209.7        ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux-meta                        ||                      || 2.6.38.9.23          ||    0 ||        0 ||
<sconklin> || ---      linux                             ||                      || 2.6.38-9.43          ||    9 ||        9 ||
<sconklin> ||                                            ||                      ||                      ||      ||          ||
<sconklin> ..
<smb> Maverick proposed fails to boot on ec2. Currently investigating.
<smb> ..
<bjf> smb go
<bjf> heh
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
<JFo> Incoming Bugs
<JFo>  9 Oneiric Bugs ()
<JFo>  1207 Natty Bugs (up 273)
<JFo>  1142 Maverick Bugs (up 13)
<JFo>  1029 Lucid Bugs (up 7)
<JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
<JFo> ==== regression-update ====
<JFo>   * 1 natty bug ()
<JFo>   * 42 maverick bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 74 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 4 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-release ====
<JFo>   * 458 natty bugs (down 26)
<JFo>   * 244 maverick bugs (up 2)
<JFo>   * 222 lucid bugs (up 4)
<JFo>   * 37 karmic bugs (down 1)
<JFo>   * 2 hardy bugs (no change)
<JFo> ==== regression-proposed ====
<JFo>   * 1 natty bugs (up 1)
<JFo>   * 2 maverick bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 lucid bugs (no change)
<JFo>   * 0 karmic bugs (no change)
<JFo> ..
<bjf> probably don't need to be tracking the karmic bugs :-)
<JFo> thanks bjftrue
<JFo> :
<JFo> :)
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<bjf> sorry for the long, drawn out meeting, the one right after UDS is usually brutal
<bjf> :-)
<kamal> :-)  thanks bjf
<bjf> thanks everyone
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:09.
<JFo> bjf, thank you sir
<smb> thanks bjf
<apw> :)
<ppisati> cool
<kees> ogasawara: thanks, I'll get nx-emu done today
<ogasawara> kees: no hurry
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-25
 * slangasek waves
<jhunt> o/
<barry> howdy
<mvo> hello
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> hey
<doko> hi
<bdmurray> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<psurbhi> o/
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
<MootBot> New Topic:  lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko csurbhi stgraber jhunt mvo ev vorlon bdmurray)
<slangasek> mvo bdmurray stgraber csurbhi cjwatson ev doko jhunt vorlon barry
<slangasek> mvo: tag
<mvo> What I did last week (shorter week, half a day sick, friday on vacation):
<mvo> Spec writing/workitem creation work
<mvo> SRU for aptdaemon (#781874) and new oneiric version
<mvo> Apt: Apt-ddtp update oneiric, review/merge donkults branch, work on lp:~mvo/+junk/apt-ordering-failure for SoC apt order
<mvo> Apturl: work on a fix for overlong urls
<mvo> Expenses uds budapest, travel preparing spring dublin
<mvo> Review/merge lp:~hodgestar/software-properties/configurable-key-server
<mvo> Software-center: add fallback to previous distro series if there are no reviews for the current one yet, upload new version, fix tests for oneiric, debug/fix broken apthistory.p caches, merged lp:~evfool/software-center/smallfixes, work on lp:~mvo/software-center/qml, review/merge lp:~evfool/software-center/qfix774201, review/merge lp:~gary-lasker/software-center/refactor, upload new 4.0.2 SRU with fixes in the reviews loader, work on lp:~mv
<mvo> o/software-center/pyflakes branch, work on the lp:~mvo/software-center/refactor
<mvo> Update-manager: debug/fix/upload UnitySupport integration problem, review/merge lp:~brendan-donegan/update-manager/bug699660-fix-settings-shortcut, update meta-release (now that new u-m is in -updates)
<mvo> (this is for the last week from mon-fri, gtimelog seems to give me
<mvo> this weekview whatever day I pick from the week, how do others get wed->wed only?)
<mvo> (done)
<mvo> I guess this comes down to "lots of software-center work" :)
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> created foundations-bugs team and mailing list, subscribed them to packages we care about
<bdmurray> modification of ftbfs bugs for doko
<barry> mvo: i distill from the timelog.txt file
<bdmurray> modification of bug squad standard replies, bug squad signature greasemonkey script
<bdmurray> done
<mvo> barry: so you don't use the "create weekly report" menu ? I should just use the file too I thnk :)
<slangasek> bdmurray: modification of ftbfs bugs is scripting something against bugs currently in LP?
<barry> mvo: exactly!  super easy
<bdmurray> slangasek: yes doko asked me to retag, target and milestone them
<mvo> barry: thanks!
<slangasek> ah cool
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> I've spent a good part of Thursday and Friday working with upstream x2go.
<bdmurray> I'm happy to do similar things for other people
<stgraber> Monday was a public holiday here.
<stgraber> Uploaded nxcomp and nxproxy merging changes from x2go and rebasing on a recent upstream.
<stgraber> Reviewed and uploaded python-x2go (in NEW) and started working on porting the software-center code to it.
<stgraber> These changes and new packages should also land in Debian soon (through pkg-devel-x2go).
<stgraber> Been doing a few merges too and otherwise worked on my IPv6 test environment and working on the NFS ipv6 MIR (bug 781516).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 781516 in rpcbind (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[MIR] libtirpc, rpcbind" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781516
<stgraber> Started thinking of possible integration of containers to help the App Review Board.
<stgraber> Updated a few specs so they look good and are ready for review/approval.
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> stgraber: thanks for that MIR, I've kicked it over to the MIR team now :)
<slangasek> psurbhi:
<psurbhi> *) Tested 2.6.7.x mdadm fixes for autoboot,partition naming etc again -   uploaded a debdiff for the same.
<psurbhi> *) visa documentation, appointment, ticket booking
<psurbhi> *) Assessing the need for mountall interface - when root changes while booting (had initially thought that this was needed)
<psurbhi> *) ext4 deadlock bug - re-worked on the patches that I sent out earlier.
<psurbhi> (done)
<stgraber> slangasek: ok, I guess it can be approved with the current content but we should wait for a new libtirpc in Debian or drop the build-dep ourself and then sync whenever Debian does the same thing
<slangasek> stgraber: yep
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> This week:
<cjwatson>  * more work on live-build, now properly specced/wikied (foundations-o-live-build) - x86 mostly sorted, working on ARM requirements now
<cjwatson>  * wrote up foundations-o-great-cd-debate, hopefully clearly
<cjwatson>  * started initial oneiric CD builds
<cjwatson>  * moved transition tracker onto DC infrastructure
<cjwatson> Next week:
<cjwatson>  * make sure the installer is working properly for alpha-1
<slangasek> psurbhi: and that mdadm diff is ready for sponsorship, right?  It's on my todo list
<cjwatson>  * if possible, cut over to live-build, at least for x86
<psurbhi> slangasek, yes
<psurbhi> just that its quiet a big one.. :-/
<slangasek> yeah :)
<slangasek> cjwatson: I was puzzled that foundations-o-great-cd-debate only has one work item
<cjwatson> I thought somebody would say that :)
<slangasek> surely I should have a work item there to investigate the 703MB CD question further :)
<cjwatson> ah, yes, that would be a good plan
<cjwatson> I didn't want to write a vague work item that said "maybe increase the CD limit"
<cjwatson> and a lot of the items are in reality in other specs (e.g. desktop-o-cdspace)
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> I'll lob a work item in for you
<slangasek> ta
<slangasek> ev:
<cjwatson> (the size benefit from live-build was a pleasant surprise)
<ev> Done:
<ev> - Investigated Mozilla Input (http://input.mozilla.com and
<ev>   http://feedback.mozilla.com) and the old kampyle.com-based feedback system
<ev>   used in the Funnel Cake project (recording why people were quitting the
<ev>   Firefox install for a day).  Set up a local Django instance of Mozilla Input
<ev>   and started poking around the code.
<ev> - Taught Wubi to boot straight into the second stage when in Windows Vista or
<ev>   later.  Working out an approach for Windows XP.
<ev> - Implemented code to present the list of keyboard variants in pertinent to the
<ev>   selected language in ubiquity in the panel keyboard indicator, using
<ev>   python-xklavier, which I'll have to MIR and seed.
<slangasek> oh? there was a size savings with live-build?
<ev> - Started trying to untangle kvm-autotest for automated Wubi testing.
<ev> - Had a quick play with kexec, enough to confirm that it works.  Still need to
<ev>   integrate into ubiquity.
<ev> - Lots of discussion around the crash database.
<ev> - Tried to address a tech board member's concerns around the community not
<ev>   having the full data available for installation success/failure measurement.
<ev> - Created an Ubuntu Metrics team to keep the momentum from mpt's UDS plenary.
<ev>   Sent out a kickoff email to get things started.
<ev> - Had a call with Elliot about his team massively helping plan and resource
<ev>   bigger items from the Ubuntu Metrics work.
<ev> - Wrote a brief for the Web Team for work on the Spread Ubuntu project.  Sadly
<ev>   looks like it might be deferred again :-/.
<ev> TODO:
<ev> - Catch up on the discussion around the crash database and investigate what
<ev>   Mozilla is doing with Socorro, per Elliot's advice.
<ev> - Respond to the Technical Board's concerns around the installation
<ev>   success/failure measurement.
<ev> - Finish drafting results from "Whats wrong with UDS?" session and engage with
<ev>   Jono to come up with firmer plans.
<ev> - Mock up a network-manager 0.9 D-Bus API for unit testing and to use while I
<ev>   wait for the real thing to be packaged.  Create the wireless page in the
<ev>   installer.
<ev> - Investigate the libcheese pygi bindings and see how much work is required
<ev>   for the picture page.
<ev> (done) apologies for the poor formatting on that.
<cjwatson> slangasek: yeah, about 5 MiB - probably a bit of a memory tradeoff, I think it mostly comes from doing a better job at cleaning up *-old files in /var/lib/dpkg/ and that kind of thing
<cjwatson> (since that's about the only file-list difference that's left)
<cjwatson> ev: I improved the second-stage boot menu a bit, BTW, by bringing lupin back into sync with GRUB
<slangasek> huh, neat
<ev> cjwatson: yay, thanks
<ev> cjwatson: is it to the point where we don't show the windows option in grub when under wubi?
<slangasek> ev: is the TB concern that raw data gathered about successful installs, etc. should be available to the community also?
<mvo> ev: woah, impressive list!
<cjwatson> ev: one thing that occurred to me in the process though is that there's no way to do certain things in the Wubi environment, because we don't get to write to the GRUB environment block
<ev> mvo: mostly noise, really
<ev> :)
<cjwatson> ev: no, I haven't changed that - that's quite awkward to do right now
<ev> slangasek: that was this particular member's concern, yes
<ev> which is a hard balancing act against "we don't do headcounts"
<cjwatson> ev: do I have a work item for that?
<slangasek> clever objection though... if Canonical can be trusted with it, why shouldn't the community :)
<ev> cjwatson: no, do you want one?  It was something I noticed when doing a Wubi install and I find it confusing
<cjwatson> ev: mm, it's technically accurate and occasionally helpful but I can see how it might be confusing
<ev> slangasek: it was phrased in terms of "If I'm a user, I want to be able to look at a database and roughly see my anonymous information in there, knowing the time, etc"
<cjwatson> ev: if it bothers you and you want rid of it, give me a work item, yes :)
<ev> cjwatson: will do :)
<ev> (it means showing two bootloader menus, ick)
<slangasek> doko:
<cjwatson> ev: (taking to /msg)
<cjwatson> (actually #u-i)
<doko> - filed MIR's, reviewed and promoted packages for component mismatches
<doko> - built OpenJDK b22 for armel, started jtreg tests on armel
<doko> - GCC and binutils updates, GCC bug triage
<doko> - Linaro toolchain WG call
<slangasek> anything interesting coming out of the WG call?
<doko> no, business as usual, addressed the powerpc build failure, but nothing else
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> jhunt:
<jhunt> Post-holiday inbox boxin'. Added workitems to all blueprints bar
<jhunt> foundations-o-upstart-for-admins. Provisional planning for Upstart
<jhunt> "helpers" (abstract jobs/events). Merging fun (ongoing). Investigating
<jhunt> nih+upstart build failures (ongoing) - looks like a toolchain issue on
<jhunt> armel.
<jhunt> EOF
 * mvo read "post-holiday inbox bombing"
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> sounds like a holiday in itself
<barry> love it
<psurbhi> heh
<slangasek> jhunt: eta on work items for foundations-o-upstart-for-admins?
<ev> (slangasek: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000873.html - he's made his concerns public now)
<cjwatson> doko: thanks for the c-m work, it's been greatly appreciated
<jhunt> slangasek: should be done by cob today.
<slangasek> ok, great :)
<jhunt> what's the deadline for the specs btw?
<slangasek> last Friday ;)
<jhunt> ah...
<cjwatson> slangasek: speaking of which, I'm approver of several undrafted specs where you're the drafter ;-)
 * slangasek ducks and runs
<slangasek> yep, will have those done today
 * cjwatson cracks the whip
<slangasek> my turn
<slangasek> * blueprint review/approval
<slangasek> * followed up on wrong memory requirements information for natty
<slangasek> * documenting our UDS output in the proceedings: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/O
<slangasek> * looking into the possibility of contracting a Windows programmer to help with Wubi
<slangasek> * trying to figure out a schedule for an upstart sprint this cycle
<slangasek> ... you guys need to plan your vacations together so I have something to work with ;P
<slangasek> EOF
<ev> oh, I intend on waiting until the last minute and taking 26 straight days off :-P
<cjwatson> the "bye, see you next year" option is always fun
<slangasek> heh
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> bug 787822 and debian bug 625784 (virtualenv -p python3 broken), did my first upload to fix this in oneiric!; bug 784662 (winpdb; fix in ppa, maybe backports?); started looking at python3-defaults to drop py3.1; blueprinting; ubuntu packaging guide (copy last bits of wiki to rest and fulfill jorge's mandate by deleting many wiki pages); blog about python plans for oneiric; upgraded dev vm to oneiric; released python 2.6.7rc2; done.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 787822 in python-virtualenv (Ubuntu) "'virtualenv -p python3 /tmp/xx' should work but doesn't" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/787822
<ubottu> Debian bug 625784 in python-virtualenv "python-virtualenv: 'virtualenv -p python3 xx' should work but doesn't" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/625784
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784662 in winpdb (Ubuntu) "winpdb doesn't work with python2.7" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784662
<cjwatson> slangasek: cool, that proceedings page makes us look good. :)
<slangasek> being the only team to ACTUALLY fill it out does that :)
<barry> :-D
<jhunt> slangasek, ev: the ultimate - http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1991-10-31/
<ev> ooo, I have to try that
<psurbhi> heh
<barry> <cough><cough>
<slangasek> barry: congrats on the upload! :)
<barry> slangasek: thanks!
<ev> barry: was it automatix?
<barry> ev: automatix?
<slangasek> so with the ubuntu packaging guide moved out of the wiki, are there stubs left somewhere that direct to the new guide?
<slangasek> ev: harsh
 * barry didn't sleep a wink last night
<slangasek> barry: automatix, because every package management system needs a four-speed blender
<ev> barry: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html
<ev> killall -9 dpkg! yay
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<ev> yes
<ev> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000873.html
<slangasek> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000873.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000873.html
<ev> I'm interested to know if anyone has thoughts on how I can remove myself from between the rock and hard place that is giving developers access to the raw data and not giving people data to infer head counts with
<slangasek> people always infer head counts anyway, don't they?
<ev> or how I can play the tech board against itself for massive win
<slangasek> heh
<barry> ev: perhaps assign people a random uid and offer to email that to them so they can track their own data but no one elses?
<barry> oh wait
<cjwatson> Scott has an interesting point about the data being genuinely useful to third parties as well
<cjwatson> I think I'd prefer to discuss this in a TB meeting though ...
<cjwatson> infer head counts> one option would be expiring the data
<slangasek> right - we can share whatever data we have, but just not keep interesting data
<slangasek> if what we want is success rate over time, only keep that
<slangasek> sorry, not to imply that's not interesting data :)
<ev> expire the real data, but keep the percentages forever?
<slangasek> yeah
<ev> that works for me
<ev> but sure, we can discuss this in the TB meeting
<stgraber> so have the server store the data for the day, at the end of the day generate the stats and remove the data?
<cjwatson> or something like that - possible compromise anyway
<slangasek> yep
<slangasek> you can't aggregate those numbers over time because you don't have the scale
<slangasek> so it does limit the utility to some degree
<slangasek> food for thought, at least :
<slangasek> )
<slangasek> anything else?
<stgraber> yeah, and we'll still have "interesting data" like how many installs do we get on release day... ;)
<ev> I created a metrics team
<ev> people should join it and participate
<mvo> ++
<ev> if they're interested in this sort of stuff, of course
<ev> http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-metrics
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-metrics
 * slangasek creates ~ubuntu-imperials in response
<slangasek> ;-)
<ev> lol
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:42.
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<mvo> thanks!
 * jhunt is on holiday - please leave a message after the prompt
<jhunt> Oops - sorry! :)
<doko> bye
<psurbhi> jhunt is coughing... :D
<mvo> in the good news section (that we did not have): I played with qml and its really really nice for UI work
<stgraber> thanks
<psurbhi> thanks
<barry> mvo: nice
<ev> thanks
<stgraber> mvo: oh cool, it's on my todolist of stuff to look at (since UDS-O) ;) will try to spend some time on it this weekend
<ev> qml> ick
<ev> "people are moving to the web, and they're using javascript as part of that.  I know, we'll stop the tide by putting javascript on the desktop! This cannot fail!"
<mvo> barry, stgraber: llp:~mvo/software-center/qml for the curious
<mvo> ev: gnome-shell!
<ev> yep, equally awful
<ev> Also, Qt bad, very bad.
<mvo> ev: out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the approach? just the layout stuff in qml is vastly more powerful than gtk
<barry> ev: ecmapython
<ev> I am very weary of us moving to Qt in general for a number of reasons
<ev> not least of which, it doesn't have an owner
<ev> but more importantly, it's just reliving the battle of the 1990s
<ev> we don't need another WIMP model to compete with Windows 95
<ev> we need something new and revolutionary, that, if we're not going to develop upstream software ourselves, leverages the hard work being done in our open source industry
<ev> so, webkit + other things
<stgraber> mvo: cool, I'll have a look. Off for lunch now, see you.
<ev> if I have to pick between Google creating an open source layout engine and a company that laid off most of its employees on Qt, I'm going to go with Google.
<ev> (equally, I don't think this is the kind of thing we can hope for some PhD student to knock out as part of their thesis)
<cjwatson> javascript on the desktop: I think I confirmed at UDS that I wasn't the only one who was reminded of Active Desktop
<mvo> right, fair enough. the future is very uncertain for qt, that is unfortunately true
<barry> not that i have a horse in the race, but qt is free software and has a big fan base right?  it's not going anywhere, though it may not progress as quickly.  heck, even tcl is still around :)
<ev> I just want us to be forward thinking. We're not going to compete with the big boys by playing with yesterday's technology, or even today's.
<barry> that i agree with
<mvo> right, and yet we need to have solution today that are compelling
<ev> sure, but this seems to be positioned as the future
<ev> and too many transitions will kill our developers and users
<ev> so I think it's wiser to invest heavily in developing future technology and smoothing out the rough bits of what we already have
<mvo> that is something I very much agree with, we need to keep the transitions as low as possible
<Ahmuck-Sr>  /topic
<patrickmw> QA meeting?
<patrickmw> hggdh ^
<hggdh> darn it!
<hggdh> OK
<cp1> was over about 25 minutes ago
<patrickmw> hggdh, I can help gather the troops
<hggdh> patrickmw: isn't it at 1200?
<patrickmw> I see 1700 UTC on the fridge
<cp1> QA is next hour about 50 minutes away
<hggdh> yes
<hggdh> patrickmw: 'date -u' return 16:09 ere
<patrickmw> grrr Foiled again by google calendar
<hggdh> here
<hggdh> patrickmw: welcome! Been there so many times...
<hggdh> cp1: thank you
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> pffuiiii, not guilty this time
<patrickmw> hggdh, sorry for the hearth attack :)
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> my heart seems to be still strong, of sort of ;-)
<hggdh> almost time....
<hggdh> no, it *is* time
<jibel> ~o~
<hggdh> OK
<hggdh> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is hggdh.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<hggdh> good morning/afternoon/evening/night to all
<hggdh> we will go thru the following agenda:
<patrickmw> good *
<hggdh> Previous Actions (all)
<hggdh> Community Efforts/Testing
<hggdh> Automated/Systems Testing
<hggdh> Engineering Team Bug Status
<hggdh> Other Topics
<hggdh> Chair Selection
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Previous Actions
<hggdh> I cannot see any pending actions. Anybody has a better view than mine (known to be flaky)?
<jibel> There was an action to move the meeting on #u-meeting at 1700UTC and update the calendar
<jibel> here we are!
<jibel> done
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> so
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Community Efforts/Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Community Efforts/Testing
<hggdh> we are starting a new cycle, and today the first ISOs for the desktop were put available. I understand they are quite unstable, though
 * charlie-tca waves
<pedro_> ooh yes :-)
<hggdh> but, generically, help testing the new Oneiric images is extremely welcome
<hggdh> Anything from the community relating to test?
<jibel> o/
<hggdh> (BTW -- there are no server ISOs available)
<hggdh> jibel: please go ahead
<jibel> only alternate and desktop on i386 are available.
<jibel> so, we need help with sru testing and especially 3 bugs:
<jibel> bug 665185 sysvinit (Lucid) High
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 665185 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Lucid) "/etc/init.d/sendsigs fails to kill some processes" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/665185
<jibel> it is targeted to 10.04.3 and needs verification asap
<jibel> bug 695290 grub2 (Lucid, Maverick) High
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 695290 in grub2 (Ubuntu Maverick) "10_lupin case problem with ntfs UUIDs" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/695290
<jibel> Requires dual RAID controllers
<jibel> if anyone has a dual raid controller please give it a try
<jibel> bug 778026 lirc (Natty) Critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 778026 in lirc (Ubuntu Natty) "lirc-modules-source breaks in-kernel lirc support" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778026
<jibel> Requires an Infrared Remote Control
<jibel> if anyone has an Infrared Remote Control and is running natty please give it a try
<hggdh> for the record, Lucid 10.04.3 is looming... we need to check these SRU bugs really, really, ASAP
<jibel> ..
<hggdh> OK. Moving on
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Automated/Systems Testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Automated/Systems Testing
<patrickmw> Hello all
<patrickmw> We are currently running the individual test suites that get executed for Kernel SRU to collect data:
<patrickmw> What type of tests get run
<patrickmw> What kind of results are generated
<patrickmw> How do they perform in a CI environment
<patrickmw> We have been making steady progress and have been able to run LTP lite to completion.  After reviewing the other test suites (DBench, TBench, TioBench, SignalTest) we will need to transform the results to a standard format.  Most of these test suites started development before test runners like unittest were widely used.
<patrickmw> Ubiquity testing:
<patrickmw> There is currently a piloted set of test scripts for automating the Ubiquity installer. Those scripts will be developed into a full-fledged framework so we can continue to add tests
<patrickmw> Not much to report until after the Automation Sprint
<patrickmw> Package continuous integration:
<patrickmw> Engineering teams have been asked to submit lists of critical packages to Ubuntu. Those packages are being added to the CI process and will be built, tested and reported upon on a more frequent basis whether it be daily, hourly, or upon code push.
<patrickmw> Questions?
<hggdh> o/
 * patrickmw is all ears
<hggdh> we are currently running kernel SRUs -- what should we change, if anything?
<patrickmw> nothing right now.  We are still in discovery mode.  As soon as we can get the SRU tests in the hands of Jenkins we will let you know :)
<hggdh> ok
<hggdh> anything else?
<patrickmw> not from me
<hggdh> moving on
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Engineering Team Bug Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Engineering Team Bug Status
<hggdh> pedro_: ?
<hggdh> (or am I jumping the gun?)
<pedro_> as you all know the desktop on Oneiric is a 'bit' broken
<pedro_> and probably more breakage is coming since the transition to Gnome 3
<pedro_> so if you encounter a bug that i'm not aware of (commented on) or anybody from the desktop team, please raise it to me so i can assign it to the right person and get it fixed
<hggdh> (pedro_ can usually be found on the #ubuntu-bugs channel)
<pedro_> yes on that and at #ubuntu-desktop if i'm not around
<pedro_> and also! on the desktop page, we're having a bug day for the amazing Compiz
<pedro_> which is tomorrow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20110526
 * hggdh forgot -desktop, shame, oh shame
<pedro_> so if you have some time and wanna learn a bit more about it  please join us :-)
 * pedro_ hugs hggdh
 * hggdh hugs pedro_ back
<hggdh> done?
<pedro_> guess that's all from here
<pedro_> yeah
<hggdh> folks, when you are done typing, please enter a line with just two dots -- like
<hggdh> ..
<hggdh> (just an example)
<charlie-tca> o/
<hggdh> charlie-tca: please go ahead
<charlie-tca> Are we going to need oneiric to work those compiz bugs, or will testing in natty be good?
<hggdh> for tomorrow, you mean?
<charlie-tca> yes
<pedro_> the version of compiz in both is the same
<charlie-tca> So, if it works/fails in 11.04, that will be valid
<charlie-tca> ..
<hggdh> OK, moving on. Next in line is bdmurray
<pedro_> lot of issues about compiz are related to video drivers though, so it would be good if you cna test with oneiric if its working for you
<pedro_> otherwise natty is fine
<pedro_> ..
<hggdh> bdmurray: there?
<hggdh> let's try JFo -- there?
<bdmurray> hggdh: what is this topic about exactly?  is it the status of engineering team bugs or what I've been up to?
<hggdh> bdmurray: I understand it to be status of the eng team bugs
<hggdh> and, why not, what you have been up to :-)
<bdmurray> I've nothing really to report regarding specific bugs / issues.
<bdmurray> I've been working on sorting out packages the foundations team is interested in.
<bdmurray> .......
<JFo> hggdh, I'm here
<hggdh> bdmurray: the dots there mean you are really, completely, utterly done?
<hggdh> JFo: just a sec, please
<bdmurray> indeed ..
<JFo> ok
<hggdh> bdmurray: will your work on the foundation packages be extensible to the other teams?
<bdmurray> hggdh: I've one script that looks at packages that members of a team in Launchpad are subscribed to which may be useful as a starting point
<crazedpsyc> Anything I can do to help with tomorrow's powerusers meeting?
<bdmurray> however, I found there were lots of false positives there as people subscribe to things they care about in their spare time
<hggdh> oh
<bdmurray> additionally, I have an ubuntu-changes mailing list parser that counts package uploads per person
<hggdh> crazedpsyc: please wait a bit, this meeting is about QA
<bdmurray> this was the most useful for finding packages the team has an interest in
<crazedpsyc> hggdh: Ahh, sorry, didn't know there was anything happening at the moment :)
<hggdh> bdmurray: can it be shared later on? I think all teams would be interested
<bdmurray> then I have another launchpadlib script to subscribe people or teams to pacakges
<bdmurray> that one could be unused not nicely though I think so I will sit on that
<bdmurray> hggdh: yes, I'll share my code
<bdmurray> . . . ;-)
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> JFo: sorry for the delay, floor is yours
<JFo> no sweat, what would you like to know?
<JFo> (I was unprepared for this meeting ;))
<hggdh> JFo: I understand kernel triage is changing -- you now do something a bit different. Care to share?
<JFo> sure
<JFo> so, I have begun working solely on development release bugs
<JFo> in addition to that, and because there are so few just now, I am taking some time to dive a bit deeper into career/job development
<JFo> with those subject matter experts in certain kernel subsystems
<hggdh> oh, there goes another triager...
<hggdh> ;-)
<JFo> I'm taking an hour at least a week to work with Graphics/BIOS and sound subsystem engineers so that I can help them get more clear bugs
<JFo> :-)
<hggdh> will there be somebody dedicated to stable releases for thr kernel?
<JFo> that will benefit the Analyst portion of the new direction
<JFo> not yet, but the plan is to record what I am able to accomplish this cycle as a means of identifying the need
<JFo> so the SRU team will be working on their bugs (even though I am helping them still a bit)
<JFo> I am positive that my assistance to them will wane as the number of development bugs increases
<JFo> which is sad really
<JFo> but I digress
<JFo> are there any questions on that? :)
<JFo> any of that?
<JFo> ..
<hggdh> then... should we try to help on stable?
<JFo> not yet I don't think. That may be something we can revisit in several weeks. I am still working with them to determine how SRU bugs will be handled
<hggdh> thank you
<JFo> my pleasure
<hggdh> moving on
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Other Topics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Topics
<hggdh> open mic, please raise hand for attention
<jibel> o/
<hggdh> jibel: please go ahead
<jibel> on the topic 'community testing' 2 more things
<hggdh> o/ (when jibel is done)
<jibel> the test cases for Ubuntu desktop and alternate have been updated. A review would be greatly appreciated
<jibel> We need help to update non english test cases
<jibel> and Oneiric alpha 1 is scheduled next week.
<jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<hggdh> so -- for those of you fluent in other languages: please help on the translation
<jibel> The first candidates will be published on the tracker hopefully on tuesday.
<jibel> A major user visible change is the transition to gnome 3, so testing promises to be fun.
<jibel> don't forget to sync your images over the week end.
<jibel> thanks
<jibel> ..
<charlie-tca> will we have all the images by Saturday?
<jibel> charlie-tca, I don't think so, but if you sync over the week end there is less to sync when the candidates are published.
<hggdh> my turn -- I give the floor to myself
<hggdh> there is a survey going on -- community based. You can see/fill it at https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGRLSmxTQ05VYzh6NmdBN3BsakhpM3c6MQ#gid=0
<maco> Please share it with the non-technical users in your life too
<hggdh> I am really curious to find out what it will give us as result
<hggdh> and -- thanks again to maco for putting it up
<maco> Answers solely from power users and programmers are a bit biased ;-)
<hggdh> ..
<hggdh> so. Without any other questions...
<hggdh> [TOPIC] Chair Selection
<MootBot> New Topic:  Chair Selection
<hggdh> who shall be the next chair?
<hggdh> hum. The silence is thunderous
<charlie-tca> this is bit different, but being it will be the first of the month, it must be my turn
<hggdh> :-)
<hggdh> charlie-tca: so you are proposing yourself?
<charlie-tca> sure
<hggdh> you WIN!
<charlie-tca> put me down, gets me to the meeting, too
<hggdh> [ACTION] charlie-tca to chair next meeting
<MootBot> ACTION received:  charlie-tca to chair next meeting
<hggdh> and I think this is it -- thank you, charlie-tca
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
<hggdh> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:41.
<hggdh> thank you all
<charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing, hggdh
<pedro_> thanks
<jibel> Thanks for chairing hggdh
<charlie-tca> and now, lunch
<hggdh> indeed
<jibel> and now dinner
<Ahmuck-Sr> o/
<Ahmuck-Sr> nm
<highvoltage> hi!
 * alkisg waves
<highvoltage> stgraber: around? :)
<stgraber> kind of
<highvoltage> anyone else for the Edubuntu meeting?
<highvoltage> all I really need to add is that I'll be updateing our roadmap page to match what we discussed at UDS
<highvoltage> and I'll send some notes to the list too
<highvoltage> (should've done that before already, but been busy)
<highvoltage> these are basically our blueprints from UDS:
<highvoltage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-edubuntu
<highvoltage> and
<highvoltage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-debian-edu-edubuntu-collaboration
<highvoltage> anything else that's worth noting?
<highvoltage> we've had a few new requests for http://edubuntu.org/marketplace recently, it's been growing steadily. there's probably another one that will be added soon
<stgraber> nothing on my side. I'm probably going to update the -o-edubuntu spec with the WI I already worked on
<alkisg> Thanks for the update :)
<highvoltage> sending some details to the list will at least force me to think of some things I haven't had bandwidth for :)
<highvoltage> well, I guess it's back to lurking in #edubuntu then :)
<stgraber> short meeting ;)
<alkisg> :)
<highvoltage> I *could* find enough edubuntu stuff to blabber about for an hour but not sure if that would be exactly productive :)
<stgraber> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-26
<NCommander> Morning all
 * janimo waves
<Guest40648> G'day NCommander
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:59. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110526
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110526
<NCommander> *is having some issues with the wiki and 500 errors*
<NCommander> There are no action items from last meeting so ...
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html
<NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<ogra_> still lots missing
<NCommander> and of course the WI tracker doesn't see any of my specs
<ogra_> but davidm said he would do an approval round
<ogra_> NCommander, they need to be approved first
<Guest40648> Yep I want to to approvals today
<ogra_> and have a prio
<ogra_> and indeed need to be assigned to oneiric
<ogra_> i see 6 for NCommander btw :)
<NCommander> yeah, a number thats bound to go up :-(
<ogra_> yes
<GrueMaster> I see none for me.  Yippie!
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> I sent a list of all the server specs to davidm. With the exception of the security/entropy one, they're all drafted and ready for review
<ogra_> you have at least two items on my specs
<GrueMaster> damn.  :(
<ogra_> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~davidm?searchtext=o-arm
<ogra_> that should be all our specs
<ogra_> if anything is missing we need to fix that
 * ogra_ sees david has fun with nickserv
<NCommander> I don't think there's anything else on burndown charts
<NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
<ogra_> well, action; everyone get their specs in the right state
<ogra_> before end of the week
 * ogra_ guesses release team wants to review in the release meeting tomorrow
<NCommander> [action] everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
<MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
<ogra_> NCommander, we too that one out btw
<ogra_> unity-2d is desktop team now
 * ogra_ though we discussed that last week)
<davidm_> See if I stay davidm this time
<ogra_> heh
<ogra_> just be nice to nickserv :)
<davidm_> sometimes nickserv hates me
<NCommander> flower and candy are a good way to sooth rough feelings
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti, ppisati)
<ogra_> davidm_, since you missed it
<ogra_> <ogra_> well, action; everyone get their specs in the right state
<ogra_> <ogra_> before end of the week
<ogra_> ACTION received:  everyone to get their specs in proper shape before end of the week
<ogra_> davidm_, i suspect the release team will want to review
<davidm_> Actually I need to get to it today as today is the deadline
<rsalveti> bug 770679 is now fixed commited
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 770679 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Missing proper support for Beagle XM rev B and C" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770679
<ogra_> so we need to get them ready before meeting
<rsalveti> only major change for kernel
<rsalveti> still long way to hit the archive
 * ppisati is here too
<ogra_> rsalveti, thats .proposed though
<ogra_> any oneiric news you want to share ?
<rsalveti> ogra_: not yet proposed
<ogra_> well, will be :)
<ppisati> nothing i'm aware off: at last TI call someone mentioned a .39 tree, wwaiting for it to appear
<janimo> omap4 still remains a separate source for O ?
<ppisati> yes
<ppisati> still a topic branch
<ogra_> yup
<ppisati> we will cherry pick CVE and stable updates from master
<ppisati> no rebase (unfrotunately)
<ogra_> until mainline is on par feature wise
<ppisati> actually i'll try (but since ompa4 is so big i'm pretty sure i'll fail)
<ppisati> btw, can anyone add me to the invitation of the weekly TI conf call?
<ogra_> ppisati, talk to ndec in #ubuntu-arm
<ogra_> he owns the invitation iirc
<ppisati> ok
<ogra_> NCommander, move ?
<davidm_> ppisati, done, you are added
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
<ppisati> davidm_: thanks
<janimo> nothing here
 * NCommander hides in fear of the FTBFS list
<janimo> a bit of bug triaging in the KInaro Jam
<ogra_> 31 packages in main isnt that bad
<janimo> the nasty oes from natty are still here
<janimo> as they are upstream issues
<ogra_> only 8 arm specific
<NCommander> true
<NCommander> and some of that seems to be ghc blew up
<ogra_> dbus, upstart and libnih look serious
<NCommander> yeah
<ogra_> i gave back dbus and upstart already
<ogra_> and the failures are weird segfaults
<janimo> ld segfaults iirc
<NCommander> Great
<ogra_> yep
<NCommander> Has anyone reproduced out of the data center?
<janimo> same in chromium
<ogra_> do we know if anyone is inspecting that on the toolchain side ?
<janimo> Linaro know about it, I am not sure what the status is
<ogra_> oh, also note that we will switch seeds this release
<GrueMaster> Buh???
<janimo> to ubuntu-desktop?
<ogra_> so look at the desktop seed once the first images roll in
<ogra_> right
<GrueMaster> ok
<ogra_> netbook will go away
<NCommander> ogra_: do you want to follow up with Linaro w.r.t. binutils segfaults?
<janimo> so our images get larger as well? will we ship the same ubuntu desktop metapackage?
<ogra_> NCommander, well, would at least be good to know a bugnumber
<ogra_> janimo, do you know if there is one (since you seem to know that linaro knows about it)
<davidm_> We might need to make our own  seed, I don'think we want all of desktop on ARM
<ogra_> thats fine
<janimo> ogra_, no idea, I just saw it discussed on #linaro
<ogra_> we can do per-arch excludes
<ogra_> no need for an extra seed
<ogra_> NCommander, then put an action item on for me
<janimo> did  not follow FTBFS lately as it seemed there were large rebuilds and I was waiting for it to settle down
<NCommander> [action] ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to trim down desktop seed on ARM
<ogra_> NCommander, ??
<NCommander> ogra_: what?
<ogra_> "<NCommander> ogra_: do you want to follow up with Linaro w.r.t. binutils segfaults?"
<NCommander> oh
<ogra_> i was referring to that one
<NCommander> wrong followup :-P
<ogra_> i dont need an action item for my day to day work :P
<NCommander> [action] ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to follow up with Linaro on binutils segfault
<GrueMaster> Hard to follow the multiple topics of the meeting.
 * ogra_ has nothing else for ftbfs
<NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (NCommander, ogra)
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (NCommander, ogra)
<ogra_> dead
<ogra_> but i think cjwatson built the first x86 images today
<janimo> eta for live helper?
 * NCommander is making funeral perperations :-(
<ogra_> so it shouldnt be long anymore
<ogra_> and its still 2 weeks to A1
<NCommander> then we get to re-implement evertyhing for l-h
<cjwatson> yesterday
<ogra_> so chances are good we can make it
<GrueMaster> I estimate image availability the day before A1.
<cjwatson> janimo: not necessarily for a1
<ogra_> cjwatson, wohoo
<cjwatson> still using livecd-rootfs for now
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> when do you plan the final switch ?
<cjwatson> when it's ready
<ogra_> heh
<GrueMaster> good plan.
<ogra_> k
<NCommander> I don't think their is much mor eon this point
<cjwatson> if I can make it before a1, I will, but I'm not promising anything
<ogra_> k
<NCommander> thanks cjwatson
<cjwatson> the CD image cron jobs are back on now
<GrueMaster> wrt netboot images, make sure we have both uImage/uInitrd & vmlinuz/initrd.img available
<NCommander> \o/
<ogra_> so we should have something to test (if it builds)
<cjwatson> so unless GrueMaster knows something I don't, they should build tomorrow
<ogra_> GrueMaster, will do
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i also plan a "mini iso" as well
<GrueMaster> I'm just speaking from experience as the QA guy that has last minute image testing to do...always.
<NCommander> anything else on this subject or can I move on?
<GrueMaster> :P
<ogra_> move
 * NCommander moves to New York
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
<ogra_> haha
<GrueMaster> Hey, that's me.  Isn't that special.
<GrueMaster> Work continues on usbboot.
<ogra_> wowie
<GrueMaster> Issues still with aboot, but we have enough to enable the buildd farm.
<ogra_> GrueMaster, btw, it would be good to know if there is a usb0 after boot
<ogra_> then we wouldnt need the conventional network for netcatting the tarball but could pull it via usbnet
<GrueMaster> There is.  Networking and usb ports both function (My keyboard/mouse is on one, usb drive on the other).
<ogra_> i mean a usbnet device
<ogra_> (the g_ether module being loaded)
<ogra_> well, lets discuss that offline
<GrueMaster> Missing are mmc and reboot.  mmc is mia, reboot causes the kernel to hang at the end with message:  Rebooting.
<ogra_> hmpf
<GrueMaster> Oh, that requires musb to work.
<ogra_> we dont need mmc so i dont care
<GrueMaster> Which it doesn't.
<ogra_> in kernel ?
<GrueMaster> I need mmc for automation testing.
<ogra_> hmm, i thought that worked
<GrueMaster> Nope.
<ogra_> gar
<ogra_> k, then its conventional network, sad
<ppisati> IIRC musb is broken upstream
<ogra_> usb would have been sexier
<ppisati> since .38.x where i don't remeber the x
<GrueMaster> musb has never worked in .38 that I know of.
<GrueMaster> Last worked in .35.
<GrueMaster> iirc.
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> moot discussion then
<GrueMaster> Back to usbboot.  I am very concerned about the copyright issues with the source.
<ogra_> well, for internal use thats a non issue
<ogra_> for packaging it thats a disaster
<GrueMaster> Right.
<ogra_> did you start conversation with upstream ?
<NCommander> ogra_: w.r.t. to copyright, if the code is invalid, we can't use it, internatl or not.
<GrueMaster> For initial deployment, I should have it working fully by eod tomorrow.  For packaging and future automation, I am looking to do a rewrite, at least for the host side.  Not much to it, shouldn't take too long (2-3 days max).
<ogra_> NCommander, as long as we dont distribute it ...
<NCommander> ogra_: I'm not going to argue specifics during this meeting, but I'll be glad to discuss in private
<ogra_> sure
<GrueMaster> The mods needed for immediate deployment are fairly trivial and can be pushed upstream.
<NCommander> can I move on?
<GrueMaster> I am also gearing up to review lava for our use.
<GrueMaster> Currently, it will not work with our images.  Looking to see what modifications need to be in place for that.
<GrueMaster> Done.
<davidm_> I'm sure we can sort license issues, I'm in contact with upstream
<NCommander> [topic] AOB]
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB]
<ogra_> is it a requirement that all images get tested with lava ?
<ogra_> or could we just define a certain set of i.e. images that work ootb
 * ogra_ could imagine the mini iso might work just fine 
<ogra_> or any other alternate ones
<GrueMaster> I was told to get lava working on some of our images.  headless & server are prime candidates.
<ogra_> well, mini iso with server preseed file should get you that
<ogra_> it can test isos too, right ?
<GrueMaster> no.
<ogra_> (i mean for x86)
<ogra_> err
<GrueMaster> It currently works with linaro style images & hw packs.
<ogra_> why the heck are we forced to use it then ? i thought its the "save the world" solution for all image testing automation
 * ogra_ wasnt aware thats only used for linaro tarballs
<GrueMaster> Not my call.  Way beyond my pay grade.
<ogra_> hmpf
<ogra_> then i dont understand the hype
<GrueMaster> That's why it is called the Linaro Automated Validation App.
<ogra_> right, still i thought the plan was to have all images tested on it
<GrueMaster> The front end is pretty good.  It is the back end that needs rework.  Unfortunately, it is all combined in one atm.
<GrueMaster> It isn't modular.
<ogra_> oh, like livecd-rootfs :)
<GrueMaster> Never having seen that, I can only guess.
 * ogra_ likes non modular after looking at live-build today :P )
<ogra_> anyway, no more questions for QA here
<GrueMaster> You want modular, but in an intelligent way.
<GrueMaster> Otherwise we would be stuck with a hugh kernel binary that loaded every driver under the sun.
 * ogra_ doesnt want too modular :)
 * NCommander would rather just refactor livecd-rootfs into modules
<NCommander> :-P
<ogra_> NCommander, ++++++++++++
<ogra_> +++
<ogra_> and +
<GrueMaster> The proper way to do it is with libraries and function calls.
<ogra_> but i guess we cant have that pony
<GrueMaster> At least that was what I did in my old days of automation development.
<ogra_> well, for shell scripts thats different :)
<GrueMaster> Not just shell scripts.
<ogra_> i agree for C code though ...
<ogra_> but we somehow get offtopic :)
<GrueMaster> I'm done unless someone has other questions on QA.
<NCommander> anything got anything else?
<NCommander> if not, I'll close the meeting
<ogra_> go for it
<NCommander> closing in 3
<NCommander> 2
<NCommander> 1
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:45.
<ogra_> and dont call me anything :P
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> anyone
<NCommander> wow
<ogra_> :)
<rsalveti> ogra_: we should be able to test ubuntu images on lava
<rsalveti> it's linaro but it can be more generic
<rsalveti> if it's not supported yet it's just because nobody created the support
<rsalveti> but it'll probably be there
<ogra_> right
<rsalveti> pplars can answer your questions on this
<ogra_> i was expecting that it already supports a wider range of images if we switvch the whole testing framework
<ogra_> but apparently that needs to grow first :)
<ubuser> can someone help me? i tried to install grub2
<ubuser> and now my pc wont boot, it says grub error 15
<ubuser> is there anyway around this from boot screen?
<davidcalle> ubuser: hi, this channel is dedicated to team meetings, you should ask this question in #ubuntu.
<smartere> Hello there
<ubuser> yea, i got booted from the others
<ubuser> please help me.
<ubuser> ive been having problems after problems and they just dont like me
<ubuser> idk what to do anymore
<ubuser> i cannot get my pc running
<davidcalle> ubuser, you can try to ask on #omg!ubuntu!
<ubuser> ty
<ubuser> b4 i reload, again..
<Technoviking> are folks here for the Ubuntu Power User meeting
<Omega> o/
<xdatap1> \o/
<toros> .o/
<Technoviking> awesome
<Technoviking> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is Technoviking.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Meeting
<Technoviking> there is the agenda
<Technoviking> [TOPIC] Organization of the team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Organization of the team
<Technoviking> So this team is pretty new and we are still getting our bearing
<Technoviking> We have done alot of work on our wiki
<Technoviking> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers
<Technoviking> but I think the key thing we need to work on is goual for the next cycle
<Technoviking> s/goual/goals
<Technoviking> first off, low hanging fruit
<Technoviking> We have been working on getting useful Unity quicklist in to the Ubuntu 11.10 base install
<Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Quicklists
<Technoviking> what else can we help with this?
<Technoviking> I guess first off, I shall have asked if everyone know what the team vision is?
<Omega> Clarify on that (so we are all on the same page).
<Technoviking> yes?
<snap-l> Please state the vision. :)
<LaserJock> Technoviking: does that make sense?
<Miles-Prower> The guy trying to make Unity run on his Eee701 (CPU @ 600MHz)
<Technoviking> LaserJock: yes
<Technoviking> but we need to focus on clear actionable goals
<LaserJock> Technoviking: yes, thats the next step
<Technoviking> LaserJock: so, what do you suggest
<LaserJock> well, we have 3 fronts, right, Docs, Tools, Communicate
<jono> apologies for being silent, currently doing a job interview for my team
<Technoviking> maco: also I think we need to think Ubuntu on this team as derivative generic
<LaserJock> I'm thinking it would be good to start of by picking maybe 3-5 actionable (low-hanging fruit?) things to do in each category
<Technoviking> there power users on Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Studio, etc...
<LaserJock> in Tools, there is discussion about Ubuntu Tweak and other such tools and how to get them ready for the archives
<Omega> Technoviking: That's what I have been trying to say, but didn't want to clutter the meeting up more, so I just dropped it.
<Technoviking> The dev of Ubuntu Tweak joined our mailing list
<LaserJock> yes, good start
<LaserJock> I think an analysis of Ubuntu Tweak
<Technoviking> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTweak
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTweak
<LaserJock> a  Power Users Bug Day
<xdatap1> Technoviking, I agree with derivates. And also, a power user may be interested in mixing technologies from different platforms. Yesterday I tried plasma-desktop over unity, it was fun :)
<LaserJock> and then we need to liaison with MOTU to figure out what needs to be done
<Technoviking> so, I think the next version of Ubuntu Tweak will have a plugin feature, so the PPA part the prgram can been an spearate install in the next version.
<LaserJock> a plugin system will be a major help
<Technoviking> do we have in MOTU/core-devs on the poweruser team yet
<LaserJock> I'm former core dev but a bit rusty
<maco> LaserJock: you expired?
<LaserJock> yes, I let it go
<Technoviking> LaserJock: would you be willing to work with tualatrix@gmail.com and be that liaasion
<Technoviking> I can help as needed
<LaserJock> maybe, I think maybe we need to cross that bridge when we get there
<LaserJock> I think Ubuntu Tweak still needs some work, I think it's good to focus on getting the code in shape
<LaserJock> the packaging will fall into place pretty easily once that is done
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Tweak does a lot of stuff
<LaserJock> I think it really needs some analysis
<Omega> Maybe we can start documenting the various configuration options that are available (in dconf)
<LaserJock> for safety and stability
<LaserJock> It killed my Unity and did some funky things on me the other day
<LaserJock> so I want to see the 100+ bugs looked at
<Technoviking> LaserJock: We should add that info to the tweak wiki
<Technoviking> What actions do people suggest we can work on now
<toros> LaserJock: have you tried the stable or a development version of ubuntu tweak?
<LaserJock> stable I think
<LaserJock> whatever is on their site
<LaserJock> Technoviking: do we know if trualatrix wants help with the plugin system?
<Omega> Well, the documentation of the various configuration options we have available (we need this info to integrate it into a pretty GUI configurator anyway)
<Technoviking> He is looking for people to write plugins
<toros> he asked for help in creating the unity plugin
<LaserJock> it seems to me that the plugin system and plugin writing/analysis would be top priorities
<xdatap1> Technoviking, I agree with Omega, we need to document what we can configure on unity. Also what we would like to configure. IE: launcher background color and alpha is not configurable afaik
<LaserJock> I would favor essentially starting with a blank slate and adding plugins as they are found to be stable and meeting Use Cases
<cprofitt> just got back from doing a trouble ticket -- I am curious what low hanging non-technical items need to be tackled?
<LaserJock> On the documentation front, I agree with Omega and xdatap1,  a good set of documentation on Unity would be great
<agrundner> I'm getting the feeling that this ubuntu power user idea is morphing into something unexpected and possibly unwieldy. Looking forward to seeing an outline of the scope of this project.
<LaserJock> keyboard shortcuts, what options exist and what they actually do
<cprofitt> +1 xdatap1 -- documenting what can be done would be a good idea... and one I could put some people to work on as well as do myself
<toros> LaserJock: we already have many documentation on Ask Ubuntu
<LaserJock> some yes
<Omega> agrundner: Now is your chance to influence it, speak up! :)
<LaserJock> but Ask Ubuntu is not, IMO, a documentation source
<maco> LaserJock++
<Technoviking> is the doc team working on Unity docs
<LaserJock> maco: I would also like to see some documentation maybe on the KDE side
<toros> is there anything that isn't documented on Ask Ubuntu regarding Unity?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> like what the heck some of the options actually mean/do
<maco> LaserJock: ive kinda got the impression it doesnt exist...like..at all
<Omega> I'm not exactly sold on this "one configurator to rule them all" idea. Is that not why we have gsettings?
<LaserJock> Omega: I agree
<Omega> Err, dconf-editor.
<maco> LaserJock: nixternal used to write kubuntu docs but he's been busy the last year and a team hasnt really formed around it
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I'm not saying kubuntu docs
<Technoviking> there can be multiple, but "support one" is a good idea
<maco> LaserJock: and based on what happens every time i try the help menu in any app in kubuntu, either there are no docs upstream or for some reason we dont put them on the iso
<LaserJock> I mean Kubuntu Power User docs, which I don't know if they really exist or not
<agrundner> "kitchen sink" app to tweak your desktop and Unity defaults: cool. #ubuntu-power-user channel to exchange tips and experiences: cool. Wiki for XYZ outside of kitchen sink's capabilities: potentially become a mess and overlap previous wiki documentation items.
<LaserJock> well, you don't have to put a GUI on *every* option
<cprofitt> askubunut is a good place to look for help if you know what you are looking for... but some folks want to know what is possible and would not know what to search for
<Technoviking> I think the power user wiki is a good place to centralize the docs, maybe get it into help.ubuntu.com at a later date
<LaserJock> I still have no idea what "Fade on bfb and Slide" means in the Hide Animation option in Unity
<LaserJock> for instance :-)
<cprofitt> Technoviking: I think having the wiki point at askubuntu is ok too, but having a centralized place to document the 'cool power options' is good
<Technoviking> So do we want to make a overall Unity Guide a action item for the next few month
<toros> LaserJock: http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553/how-can-i-configure-unity
<toros> "Fade on bfb and Slide - fades based on the position of your cursor in the bfb (big funny button - the one in the top left of your panel with the Ubuntu circle of friends on it) and slides."
<toros> It's already documented :)
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> that's not documented
<LaserJock> thats somewhere on the net where I never found it ;-)
<LaserJock> it doesn't do me any good if I don't know it exists
<LaserJock> that's the point of a centralized "go to" place
<cprofitt> LaserJock: +1
<cprofitt> it makes it easy for us to 'document it' since all we have to do is point to it
<Technoviking> +1 here
<LaserJock> in other words, Ask Ubuntu is great for information
<LaserJock> not so great for documentation
<Technoviking> LaserJock: agree
<toros> cprofitt: it is already linked at our wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Documentation
<cprofitt> toros: awesome!
<toros> should we make a copy&paste session, and copy&paste everything from ask ubuntu into a wiki?
<LaserJock> well, and organize and prettify it
<LaserJock> but I think it would be a good idea personally
<Technoviking> DO we want to make a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerUsers/Documentation/UnityGuide page, to organize just the UNity info and make it an easy link to sahre
<LaserJock> sounds good to me
<agrundner> Not sure what happened there... sorry if I missed any responses.
<xdatap1> Technoviking, +1
<Technoviking> [action] create an UnityGuide page on the wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  create an UnityGuide page on the wiki
<LaserJock> I would like to see pages for the different use cases too
<agrundner> LaserJock: there should be a UnityGuide in the official docs, no?
<LaserJock> what official docs?
<cprofitt> usecases would be a good idea as well
<toros> personally, I am not really a fan of forking an already existing documentation...
<Technoviking> agrundner: help.ubuntu.com
<Technoviking> ?
<agrundner> LaserJock: sorry, in the non-poweruser ubuntu wiki
<LaserJock> well, it might go there when it's done
<toros> I think it is better to spend our time on improving the already existing one rather than copying it
<LaserJock> toros: I would see Ask Ubuntu as a starting point
<agrundner> toros: that's kind of my point
<Technoviking> I think have a Unity section of the docs section would help the wider community,
<LaserJock> docs generally undergo  a few stages of development
<LaserJock> information -> Work In Progress/feedback -> publication
<agrundner> Technoviking: exactly... there should be a general documentation as a base and then a power user wiki page for tweaks/overrides
<LaserJock> Ask Ubuntu is (information), the Power User wiki would be (Work in Progress), and help.ubuntu.com would be (Publication)
<toros> LaserJock: what about things like custom quicklists, lenses, etc.? Should they be included in the documentation? (add this PPA, install that package...)
<LaserJock> most likely yes, if they reach stability
<Technoviking> so, we need to close out, out two goals are duction an unity section and working with Ubuntu Tweak dev and help get his program into the archive for Ubuntu 11.10
<LaserJock> when should the next meeting be?
<Technoviking> same time next month, or should we switch times
<cprofitt> as difficult as it is for me to do this during work -- I think stable meeting times are better than rotating
<cprofitt> rotating tends to cause confusion
<LaserJock> would it be worth setting up a time "poll" to see what most people want?
<LaserJock> I just usually pick morning US/evening Europe
<LaserJock> but it stinks for East Asia
<xdatap1> maybe a poll in doodle for checking in which timezone lives most of the members?
<Technoviking> xdatap1:  could you set that up
<xdatap1> Technoviking, sure, no problem
<Technoviking> thanks
<agrundner> FYI, I was confused about the location of the meeting. The channel message #ubuntu-power-users makes it sounds like it was going to be held there
<Technoviking> ok , sorry I have to go
<Technoviking> the meeting should take place in #ubuntu-meeting always
<xdatap1> Technoviking, bye and thanks for this meeting
<LaserJock> thanks Technoviking
<Technoviking> #endmeeting
<LaserJock> thanks everybody
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:05.
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-27
 * skaet waves
 * joshuahoover waves
<pitti> hey
<skaet> hi all,   time to start
<skaet> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<skaet> [Topic] Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> Welcome to the start of the release meetings for Oneiric Ocelot.
<skaet> .
<skaet> Agenda is at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-05-25
<MootBot> New Topic:  Oneiric Release Meeting overview - skaet_
<skaet> We'll be following the order given in the agenda (and there's been a little bit of reshuffling, so please check).  The one new addition is we will be starting off with a Toolchain status update.
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-05-25
<skaet> .
<skaet> Release Calendar (with updates from UDS) can be found at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule
<skaet> .
<skaet> Feature Planning Freeze was yesterday 5/26), so we've got a pretty good feeling for the work items now, and lots of interesting work to keep us busy.  :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Alpha 1 is scheduled for next Thursday (June 2nd).
<skaet> .
<skaet> Bugs targetted for this release can be found:
<skaet> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+bugs
<skaet> Bugs milestoned for oneiric alpha 1 are at:
<skaet> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/oneiric-alpha-1
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/oneiric-alpha-1
<skaet> .
<skaet> EOL's approaching:
<skaet> -Dapper Drake (6.06) - EOL on 6/1
<skaet> .
<skaet> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
<skaet> questions?
<skaet> ..
 * skaet looks around for some o/ 's.   but not seeing any so moving on.
<skaet> [Topic] Toolchain update - doko_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Toolchain update - doko_
<skaet> ok,  I guess we'll see if doko_ chimes in later.
 * cjwatson hopes doko knew this was coming :)
 * skaet had a long discussion with him on it yesterday :)
<skaet> doko wanted to make sure folks were aware of the FTB and mismatches.   Links can be found in the agenda
<skaet> [Topic] QA team update -  jibel
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team update -  jibel
<jibel> We are on track for Alpha1 testing next week
<skaet> :)
<jibel> Smoketest of latest daily didn't reveal any disaster for this stage of the release
<jibel> (meaning the system installs and the user can log in in both Unity and Unity-2D)
<jibel> ..
<skaet> Thanks jibel.
<skaet> Can you take a pass at the agenda and update the links for the QA side?
<skaet> for next time.
<jibel> yes, noted
<skaet> any other questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Hardware Certification team update - ara?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware Certification team update - ara?
 * skaet doesn't see ara in the channel,  moving on.
<skaet> [Topic] Security team update - jdstrand
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security team update - jdstrand
<jdstrand> o/
<jdstrand> err
 * jdstrand waves :)
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<jdstrand> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-security.html
<jdstrand> Our blueprints and work items should be in order, and we've started on a few a few of them, most notably the apparmor dependency on perl on the ISO. That is well in hand and hopefully we'll have that dependency removed within the next week or so.
<jdstrand> Beyond that, not a lot to report that is of interest to this meeting.
<jdstrand> ..
<skaet> thanks jdstrand.   any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] Kernel team update - ogasawara
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team update - ogasawara
<ogasawara> Overall status is reported at the first link below.  Burn down for the release milestone is at the second link below.  Burndown for the cycle is at the third link:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-kernel-team.svg
<ogasawara> The Oneiric kernel is currently at v2.6.39-3.9 which represents the v2.6.39 upstream release.  Even though we'll be targetting a 2.6.40 kernel for Oneriric, I intend to keep us on v2.6.39 for the Alpha-1 release.  I do plan to upload one more kernel today.  This will bring in some kernel config clean ups, additional suspend/resume debugging functionality, and re-enablement of dm-raid45.  We remain below the burn down lin
<ogasawara> e for our Alpha-1 work items and are on track to complete them on time as sheduled.
<ogasawara> Of the bugs called out in the agenda, status is as follows:
<ogasawara> 754744 - Assigned to kernel dev and under investigation.  Also forwarded to upstream.
<ogasawara> 542660 - Assigned to kernel dev.  Recent comments indicate possible workaround.  Confirmation is still needed against Oneiric.
<ogasawara> 760131 - This is still under investigation upstream to isolate the issue.  We'll pull in the fix once it is available.
<ogasawara> Questions?
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogasawara.  :)
<skaet> Sounds good re: kernel plans.  thanks.
<skaet> [Topic] Foundations team update - cjwatson
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team update - cjwatson
<cjwatson> Hi folks.
<cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSProceedings/O#Foundations has a summary of our plans for this cycle.
<cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-foundations.html - making progress already, but not much interesting to point out yet.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-foundations.html - making progress already, but not much interesting to point out yet.
<cjwatson> I don't have much to say about the six bugs on the agenda right now.  Most of them have assignees and are being worked on at one level or another.  For Alpha 1, I think only the ca-certificates-java bug is truly critical.
<cjwatson> I'd like to mention http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/ for those who didn't see my mail to ubuntu-devel.  It should be useful to anyone making library interface changes.
<cjwatson> CD build status is kind of amber right now.  Most images are building as of late this week, but the desktop CD has some problems; those should be sorted out later today, and installability smoke-testing can happen if people are feeling enthusiastic over the weekend.  Kubuntu ARM preinstalled images are breaking due to language-support reorganisations.
<cjwatson> Images are very oversized right now.  We may not be able to do anything about that for Alpha 1.
<cjwatson> Our one blueprint aimed at Alpha 1 is foundations-o-live-build.  That's a stretch goal for Alpha 1, and may slip; it's currently 50% complete.  I know the ARM team is waiting for this with bated breath, though.
<cjwatson> ..
<skaet> thanks cjwatson. :)
<skaet> appreciate the build status of Amber.
<cjwatson> I'm not too concerned; good to hear from jibel that smoke-tests are more or less OK.
<skaet> any specific help you're looking for?
<skaet> re: smoketests,  agreed.  :0
<skaet> :) even.
<cjwatson> Just to echo what I'm sure would be doko's comments that it will help if everyone pays attention to build failures throughout the cycle.  At this point, several of them are due to packages not having been merged from unstable yet, and that's easy for domain experts to fix.
<cjwatson> Nobody expects perfection at this point, but it's good to keep on top of things.
<skaet> there are also 32 packages in main that fail to build, based on what I was seeing last night.
<skaet> agreed,  its good to keep on top.  :)
<skaet> [Topic] Server team update - Daviey
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team update - Daviey
<Daviey> Hello!
<skaet> :)
<cjwatson> Yes; many of those are dep-waits, and are also in component-mismatches.
<Daviey> Quite a short one this week!
<Daviey> We have mostly been spec'ing and merging.
<Daviey> Our feature promise seems to be complete, and the specific WI's seem to be complete and mostly approved.  There are a couple of outstanding questions, which are being resolved.
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server
<Daviey> We are just starting to tackle WI/feature work, and therefore we are not looking at metrics at this stage.
<Daviey> There are not any feature commitments set for Alpha 1 at this stage.
<Daviey> Thanks.
<Daviey> ..
<skaet> thanks Daviey.
<skaet> any questions?
<skaet> [Topic] ARM team update - ogra_
<MootBot> New Topic:  ARM team update - ogra_
<ogra_> oops
<skaet> lol
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARMTeam/ReleaseStatus/Oneiric
<ogra_> Work was done on an ac100 tegra2 image http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/tegra/2.6.37/ and https://launchpad.net/~ac100/+archive/ppa saw their first integration work for natty which will be ported to oneiric.
<ogra_> The whole team worked on the PPA Panda build cluster, GrueMaster managed in countless hours to make usbboot work so we dont need to use addon HW to disable the SD cards.
<ogra_> The whole team worked on preparing specs.
<ogra_> unity-2d was handed over to the desktop team
<ogra_> headless images build, netbook 8which will turn into desktop soon) dont yet ... due to archive skew
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html has not picked up all specs yet
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-armel.html has not picked up all specs yet
<ogra_> thats all from me ...
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_  :)
<skaet> are we likely to be able to put out arm images for alpha1?
<ogra_> well, beyond being completely untested, i think headless should at least be fine
<skaet> if so, which ones have best chance?
<ogra_> and netbook as long as we dont change the seed right now should still function as in natty
<cjwatson> ubuntu-netbook doesn't seem to have a build yet; I haven't checked why
<ogra_> cjwatson, skew of unity packages
<cjwatson> ah, yes, I remember deleting that mail now
<ogra_> i plan to keep everything as is for A1
<cjwatson> that shouldn't be a major problem then
<Daviey> delete mail (!)
<ogra_> so the chances should be good to make A!
<cjwatson> Daviey: only the boring ones :)
<ogra_> between A1 and 2 we will do the massive moves
 * Daviey makes an effort to make his emails more entertaining.
<skaet> thanks ogra_,  expectations now set.  ;)
<skaet> any other questions?
<ogra_> Daviey, i hope not by adding colors and gifs :)
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop team update - pitti
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team update - pitti
<pitti> l desktop blueprints with work items are drafted and approved. The last BP missing is UbuntuSpec:desktop-o-packaging-branches: This is just an informational workflow discussion about the style of our desktop-ish bzr branches. It was pretty much decided in the last desktop team meeting, but we want to give Robert a chance to respond, as he brought it up. Robert has also been down with Ubuflu, so we
<pitti> need to finish this next week.
<pitti> We landed a major chunk of GNOME 3 in oneiric now, so far it's holding together reasonably well for this early stage. The remainder is blocked on porting Unity and the indicators to GTK 3. Note that the latter is a major transition and will cause some uninstallability and trouble for a few days.
<pitti> Note that `language-support-*` metapackages are finally gone now, we now only use `check-language-support` dynamically. I updated all the seeds etc., but it might still break less obvious things somewhere.
<pitti> Unity 2D and Qt are on the daily images.
<pitti> CDs are currently 30 MB oversized, and that's not the end of it, as we'll still get the new gallium X.org drivers which will pull llvm. I don't think we'll be able to sort this out by alpha-1, so I propose we'll just release alpha-1 with documented oversizedness.
<pitti> Oneiric desktop work: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team.html
<pitti> Alpha-1 work: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/canonical-desktop-team-oneiric-alpha-1.html
<pitti> We currently have too many WIs, so we'll need to cut a few.
<pitti> this will be discussed on the next meeting
<pitti> Sorry, I didn't track RC bugs for oneiric yet. I'll try to catch up with them early next week and update the wiki status
<pitti> ..
<pitti> my first sentence is missing an "Al" at the front, sorry
<skaet> lol
<skaet> Thanks pitti.   got the context.  :)
<pitti> pedantry++ :)
<skaet> ack on the oversized images.   Figured that was likely the case.
<skaet> any questions?
<pitti> we are now working on reducing them, but frankly I don't yet have an idea how to reclaim more than 30 MB
 * skaet nods
<pitti> this will need a finer comb, so let's see where we are at alpha-2
<skaet> do we want to have a special meeting on it,  after alpha 1 comes out?
<pitti> too early, I think
<skaet> couple weeks before alpha2?
<pitti> I already dropped some language-support stuff, and now we have icon dropping, removing cruft in the squashfs (-> live-helper), and other stuff in the pipeline
<pitti> so alpha-2 will still likely be oversized
<pitti> after a2 is probably a good time, when LLVM hit and we stabilized a bit
<pitti> (and did most of the space saving things)
<skaet> ok,  will put a note to myself to raise it then if not resolved before.
<pitti> thanks
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
 * skaet looks around for dbarth_ ??
<skaet> [Topic] Ubuntu One Team -  joshuahoover
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu One Team -  joshuahoover
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/OneiricReleaseStatus
<joshuahoover> that link above will have something more meaningful later today, sorry about that
<joshuahoover> i'm in the process of making sure all our blueprints for o are setup properly (work items, status, etc.)
<joshuahoover> we don't have any new features to land in alpha 1
<joshuahoover> the big thing we're still in discussions about is how we can best handle continuously updating u1 client, which is based on this blueprint:
<joshuahoover> [LINK] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+spec/foundations-o-agile-networked-clients
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-servers/+spec/foundations-o-agile-networked-clients
<joshuahoover> Chipaca is talking to a number of you about this, hopefully we can get this settled soon so we can start work :-)
<joshuahoover> and that is it for today...should have a much better update next week
<joshuahoover> --
<skaet> Thanks joshuahoover.
<skaet> any one have questions?
 * skaet looking forward to reading his status this afternoon.  ;)
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
 * skaet looks around for ScottK or Riddell ?
<Riddell> not me I'm afraid
<dbarth_> oops, i missed my turn
<skaet> Thanks Riddell,  guess we'll have to catch up with ScottK offline.
<skaet> dbarth_ go ahead, and go now then.
<skaet> [Topic] Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> skaet: thanks
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Experience Team Update - dbarth_
<dbarth_> skaet: hi
<dbarth_> i've written a quick report at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/OneiricReleaseStatus
<dbarth_> basically, work started, first dev. iteration of 1 month running
<dbarth_> priority details on the wiki page
<dbarth_> one important aspect is how that translates into landings dates relative to alpha milestones
<dbarth_> ie, weeks: #6, #10, #14
<dbarth_> which should give us some lead time before alphas, and ensure dx tarballs are well stabilized once they hit the real alphas
<dbarth_> otherwise
<dbarth_> SRU fixes delivered for launcher
<dbarth_> with compiz coming next week
<dbarth_> a bit of a slow start on the maintenance, unfortunately
<dbarth_> ..
<skaet> Thanks dbarth_ .
<skaet> appreciate the landing dates to give us some time.  :)
<skaet> will compiz next week be impacting the alpha1?  or just Natty?
<dbarth_> natty
<skaet> coolio.  :)
<dbarth_> that's more sru fixes
<skaet> Will look into the schedule a bit more, as I work up the interlock next week, and contact you off line.
<skaet> Any other questions for dbarth?
<dbarth_> sure
<skaet> [Topic] MOTU team update - ?
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU team update - ?
<skaet> do we have anyone around to talk about MOTU today?
<skaet> hmm..
<skaet> [Topic] any other kudos/comments/questions?
<MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/comments/questions?
 * Daviey passes around kudos to all.
<charlie-tca> o/
<skaet> go ahead charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> not having much common sense left, xubuntu would like to have armel imx images for oneiric
<skaet> :)
<charlie-tca> I have a part time dev and testers lined up
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> cjwatson, ogra_ ^^ thoughts?
<ogra_> if there is someone who takes responsibility for them
<ogra_> i thought we have a process for that now
<charlie-tca> wiki?
<skaet> charlie-tca is taking responsibility :),  just are the images feasible.
 * ScottK is here now.
<ScottK> Had a power outage.
<skaet> charlie-tca, yup, I'll put up the wiki next week.
<ogra_> sure, they will cost us extra 90min buildtime though
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ogra_> but beyond that, as long as they are tested by someone
<charlie-tca> I will get them tested
<skaet> sounds good.   Lets see what happens then.  :)
<ScottK> skaet: I can give you a Kubuntu update when you want it.
<charlie-tca> thank you
<charlie-tca> ..
<skaet> [Topic] Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kubuntu Team update - ScottK
<cjwatson> xubuntu images> feasible once the disk space upgrade happens
<ScottK> Spec definition is almost done, but we made a conscious choice to wait until after Kubuntu Council elections finish on Sunday to have the KC review/approve them.
<ScottK> So we're a bit behind the official schedule, but it isn't blocking work getting done.
<ScottK> Update to KDE 4.7 beta 1 is the next big thing.
<ScottK> Debian qt-kde was finally able to upload KDE 4.6.3 to unstable yesterday, so we're going to merge from Debian and then move on to the beta.
<ScottK> There's a lot of packaging changes in 4.7, so we'll probably not have it for Alpha 1.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> Thanks ScottK
<skaet> So we're looking at 4.7 making a debut in Alpha 2 - likely?
<ScottK> Definitely before Alpha 2.
<skaet> coolio.
<skaet> Any other questions?
<skaet> or further comments?
<skaet> looks like its a wrap then.
<skaet> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:49.
<skaet> thank you jibel, jdstrand, ogasawara, cjwatson, Daviey, ogra_, pitti,  joshuahoover, dbarth_, charlie_tca,  ScottK
<ogra_> thanks skaet
<joshuahoover> thank you skaet
<jibel> Thanks skaet
<pitti> thansk everyone
<charlie-tca> Thank you
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-28
<Laney> auf deutsch?  * Recommend debian-archive-keyring, and if it is installed,
<Laney>     default to checking gpg signatures of the Release file against it
<Laney>     when bootstrapping sid, squeeze, wheezy, etch, and lenny.
<Laney> whoops
<tumbleweed> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-05-29
<jussi> o/
<jussi> Whos turn to chair?
<jussi> and tsimpson topyli around?
 * tsimpson is here
<jussi> @random tsimpson topyli
<ubottu> tsimpson
<tsimpson> LIES
<jussi> hehe
<tsimpson> wait for topyli
<jussi> I swear we shpould exclude ourselves from the random selection :P
<topyli> o/
<topyli> sorry i'm late
<jussi> heya topyli
<topyli> ah tsimpson was democratically made chair
<jussi> tsimpson: want to get us started?
<tsimpson> @reload Random
<ubottu> The operation succeeded.
<tsimpson> @random jussi topyli tsimpson tsimpson tsimpson tsimpson tsimpson tsimpson
<ubottu> topyli
<jussi> hehe
<topyli> cheater!
<jussi> you cheated :P
 * tsimpson looks all innocent
<tsimpson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:09. The chair is tsimpson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<jussi> your mistake was reloading here
<tsimpson> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<jussi> All those here stick a hand in the air o/
<tsimpson> o/
<topyli> o/
<jussi> wow, so many paying attention :/
<tsimpson> ok, so previous actions
<ikonia> I'm paying attention, I just thought you meant from the council
<jussi> ahh, the bot records who attended by if you spoke duing the meeting time
<tsimpson> [topic] remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen (nhandler)
<MootBot> New Topic:  remove idoru from #ubuntu for a 2 week trial and see if heaven falls/bad things (tm) happen (nhandler)
<tsimpson> (review)
<IdleOne> o/
<topyli> this has actually been 4 weeks now
<jussi> nhandler said: For idoru, we have had several instances where it would have been useful to have it in channel. It works well in conjunction with (not in place of) the floodbots.
<ikonia> I've not seen any problems without it
<jussi> Personally from what I have seen, idoru did get some spammers (we have had a few that didnt get killed), but the number of false positives was too high for my liking.
<topyli> so yeah, heaven did not fall
<topyli> shall we keep idoru out for now then?
<jussi> I would like a reconsider in 3-6 months after freenode have had a chance to review the code.
<IdleOne> +1
<tsimpson> the only issue(s) with having the floodbots dealing with the spam is that, 1) other channels don't get protected when a spammer hits #u (which isn't technically _our_ problem), and 2) that we have more bans/quiets in our list
<jussi> I think in essence its a good idea, but the implementation is not quite there yet.
<tsimpson> but those aren't show-stoppers, just something to note
<jussi> tsimpson: the latter is more of an issue imho.
<topyli> the former is more of a courtesy issue
<jussi> I wonder if there peoples who would be willing to volunteer to regularly double double check the FB bans (although we all should be doing this anyway)
<tsimpson> if/when idoru gets some channel specific config, so we can fine-tune it, I'd be for all it
<tsimpson> we do have some ops that regularly check the FB bans/mutes
<tsimpson> and I'm pretty sure ubottu can nag about FB bans in -ops (or where ever)
<tsimpson> as it nags in /msg to real ops
<jussi> right, but we had complaints last time we did that?
<m4v> tsimpson: it can, but was disabled afk
<jussi> yes, it certainly can.
<tsimpson> we really should be keeping a closer eye on FB bans/quiets
<IdleOne> if you can set ubottu to nag me in PM about the FB bans/mutes I am willing to look them over
<tsimpson> just generally, regardless of idoru or not
<m4v> note: I believe the nags are in NOTICE form, so ...
<tsimpson> IdleOne: it can nag people, but it can just send those messages to a channel instead
<IdleOne> I mean we should do it anyway nag or not but it would make it more usefull to me
<tsimpson> m4v: I think we cleared up the NOTICE-hate on the ML, right?
<IdleOne> I would be ok with notice to channel
<tsimpson> s/we/you/
<m4v> tsimpson: if the lack of input except for rww is "all cleared up", then yes.
<jussi> Should we have it NOTICE the -ops-team channel? It would then only affect ops, not get to users
<tsimpson> m4v: they can't say we didn't warn them ;)
<IdleOne> jussi: that is a good idea also
<tsimpson> jussi: I don't think NOTICES are logged anyway
<jussi> tsimpson: oh, ok then
<tsimpson> (that's kind of the point)
<m4v> NOTICES aren't logged, that's the good thing about them
<IdleOne> in that case we need to be stricter about the no idle policy in -ops
<tsimpson> it may be more appropriate in -team, I don't think it makes a huge difference
<jussi> Ahh, I thought it was just NOTICES as thats the rfc for bots in that situation iirc
<UndiFineD> o/
<IdleOne> if a user is in -ops they will see the notice
<tsimpson> jussi: well, the IRC RFC says that nothing should "react" to a NOTICE
<IdleOne> unless it notices only +users
<jussi> topyli: you got an opinion here?
<m4v> IdleOne: I don't think so, at least for these notices, as is just about bans ocurring in a public channels
<IdleOne> put the notices in -ops-team and problem solved
<topyli> i do have an opinion. let's have ubottu nag in -ops-team. it's not noise, it's relevant
<jussi> tsimpson: shall we vote? Unless anyone wants to make a case against it?
<ikonia> I'm tired of making a case against it
<ikonia> the bot already pm's us
<ikonia> now it has to message us in a channel
<tsimpson> well it can't /msg the floodbots now can it?
<IdleOne> not about the floodbot bans/mutes it doesn't
<topyli> ikonia: the bot doesn't pm anyone when flootbots own the ban
<ikonia> then stop the floodbots banning
<ikonia> or make them clean up
<ikonia> fed up of getting pm's from ubottu, now it's going to notice me in the channel
<tsimpson> [vote] have ubottu nag -ops-team about floodbot bans/quiets
<MootBot> Please vote on:  have ubottu nag -ops-team about floodbot bans/quiets.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> taking care of your bans is part of the job
<ikonia> just house keep the bans as individuals on a regular basis,
<ikonia> topyli: yes, it is, getting hassled from the bot is not
<jussi> Hrm, one solution may be to notice the -ops-monitor channel - then people who care get notices, others do not?
<ikonia> I'm "ok" with the pm's but in the channel is not good
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<ikonia> it used to message -ops and no-one liked it
<tsimpson> jussi: if we get more people in -ops-monitor
<ikonia> so why are we doing this again
<CarlFK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from CarlFK. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<jussi> CarlFK: please dont vote, only the ircc.
<CarlFK> doh.
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<tsimpson> we have had _many_ occasions of ban lists getting full or nearly full, the floodbots can't realistically manage it's own bans, that's the job of ops
<IdleOne> So just to be clear the bot is going to /say in the channel and not /notice?
<ikonia> tsimpson: fully accept that
<ikonia> I don't need the bot to message the channel
<topyli> i do
<ikonia> does no-one remember when it messaged -ops ? and you ended up disabling it was annoying
<m4v> IdleOne: all nags, when send to a channel, are NOTICES.
<IdleOne> thing is that it is easy to forget/ignore the bans that floodbot's set
<ikonia> sending a notice to the channel won't change that
<ikonia> as I said, it was done before and we disabled it
<m4v> something we can take note for the bantracker rewrite, instead of pm ops (or use a less annnoyin pm), keep a list of uncommented bans/quiets/removes, list that the op can review and make the comments.
<ikonia> what's changed to make it not annoying now ?
<tsimpson> so how about we just try it out in -ops-team, and see how things are at the next meeting?
<ikonia> we've tried it before
<jussi> tsimpson: If thats included, ok
<ikonia> it failed
<IdleOne> so we need an effective way of getting those bans removed to not clog up the ban list
<ikonia> IdleOne: no disagreememnt at all
<jussi> +1 (with the review in 2 weeks)
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<IdleOne> ikonia: ok, well the bots can't do it themselves and we are not doing it enough, reminders are needed
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<ikonia> IdleOne: I'll state it once more for the record then drop it, jussi enabled this before, and we disabled it because it was worthless and annoying
<ikonia> nothing has changed to make it less annoying, so I don't know why we are re-covering this
<topyli> it's needed. live with it
<ikonia> no
<tsimpson> [topic] Take "Define ubuntu namespace limits" to the mailing list. (topyli)  (review)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Take "Define ubuntu namespace limits" to the mailing list. (topyli)  (review)
<jussi> Just a clarification, this is only the week nag? or the nag on ban/remove/quiet
<tsimpson> jussi: should only be "old" bans/quiets iirc
<jussi> tsimpson: ok, thats what I was hoping to hear
<jussi> (the issue before was it was nagging on every quiet and ban, when it happened)
<tsimpson> m4v: is it ^ isn't it?
<jussi> anyway, over to you topyli
 * tsimpson has a foggy mind
<topyli> oh that is not done
<ikonia> jussi: I disagree, but I'm told "live with it" so it's of no-point discussing it
<topyli> iirc. if i did send mail, there's been no discussion. need to check
<tsimpson> if it's on ban/quiet, we won't do it
<topyli> ah i sent the mail but there's been no feedback
<tsimpson> there were 3 replies, then it died
<topyli> hrm. my search also fails
<tsimpson> [topc] Add eir to #ubuntu (review)
<tsimpson> (this is mine)
<tsimpson> the plugin is pretty much ready, just need to test (in real channels) before going live
<IdleOne> So, no info on the namespace linits?
<tsimpson> this is being setup
<tsimpson> IdleOne: feel free to restart the ML thread :)
<IdleOne> also tsimpson you missed an i in [topic]
<tsimpson> gerr
<tsimpson> [topic] Add eir to #ubuntu (review)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Add eir to #ubuntu (review)
<tsimpson> so to summarise, testing over the next day or so, then hopefully we can get under way
<topyli> wonderful
<tsimpson> [topic] new bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  new bugs
<jussi> So testing, then what happens - it goes into -ops-team and #ubuntu?
<tsimpson> (running through as quick as I can)
<tsimpson> jussi: if all is well, yep
<tsimpson> it'll be a part of ubottu
<tsimpson> I did file this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/788503
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,New]
<topyli> we do have a new bug, the guidelines translation issue
<jussi> ahh, this is important imho.
<tsimpson> it has had some response so far, but I'd like more people to look at it too
<tsimpson> to be clear, this one isn't about changing any policy/rules, but making the wording/content less specific to the #ubuntu channel
<IdleOne> I think the guidelines are fine, any LoCo channels who want to modify can create a new wiki with the amendments they like.
<jussi> I think this just needsw continued work - there isnt anything overly contentious here by the look of it
<tsimpson> IdleOne: but, I really don't think starting the rules for all core channels with "The #ubuntu IRC channel..."
<tsimpson> + is good
<tsimpson> it's not just #ubuntu, we have other channels too
<topyli> we might want to make it clear that translations need not be literal, as long as the message is the same
<IdleOne> ok so we can change that part to "The Ubuntu IRC Core channels...
<tsimpson> also, as it's linked to from the TOS, which we want heavily translated, it should be as easy to translate as possible
<topyli> tsimpson: yes it might be a good time to review the language now that it's a hot topic
<m4v> tsimpson: sorry, I had to leave for a while. I think we might have a issue there, I believe you can't have nags about week old bans/mutes without the nag about the comment setting a comment. But I think is fixable, I'll look.
<jussi> m4v: thanks. ++
<tsimpson> if, as a side-effect, that allows locos to use it, all the better
<tsimpson> m4v: ok, we'll just hold off until we get it working
<m4v> IdleOne: making a new wiki with the o channels who want to modify can
<m4v> ops
<ScottK> Consider this my pro-forma objection that the IRC Council owns anything in the Kubuntu namespace.  AFAIK you all are invited guests to help out with OPS, but they aren't IRCC controlled channels.
<tsimpson> I've covered the first item on the agenda, so we'll go on to the second
<tsimpson> [topic] Policy on extra-namespace trolling
<MootBot> New Topic:  Policy on extra-namespace trolling
<tsimpson> [link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-April/001289.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-April/001289.html
<m4v> IdleOne: I mean, it consumes everyones time, when basically all you do is change the wording for the same rules.
<jussi> nhandler says: For the policy item, I agree in principle, but don't like the idea of including every possible rule in the guidelines. I think this is probably covered by the existing rules we have in place.
<jussi> I disagree, I think this is important to insert.
<topyli> ljl's idea does duplicate some freenode policy, but i think it does fit in our guidelines and is more useful than expensive
<tsimpson> what does freenode have in it's policy pages about it?
<m4v> IdleOne: I *was* going to write our own rules for u-es, but then I thought, gee, every channel out there would need to do this. Why are these rules worded like this, it would be simpler if it was the same for everyone.
<tsimpson> can we just link and say "follow freenode policy"?
<CarlFK> I like "follow fn..."
<IdleOne> m4v: I suppose you are right, making the guidelines a little more generic could be useful to the greater ubuntu community
<tsimpson> because I see the point nhandler is trying to make there, but I also see why we would want to have something like that in the rules (as long as it's not duplication)
<m4v> I proposed an example for a translated guidelines, dunno if somebody looked at it.
<m4v> err
<CarlFK> tsimpson: are you suggesting we need something more restrictive than the freenode policy?
<m4v> not "translated", "reworded"
<tsimpson> CarlFK: no, I'm asking if it's already written in fn policy, if it is we can just say "follow freenode policy...". if not, we should write it down
<topyli> actually the best thing i can find in freenode policy quickly is that they don't tolearate incitement of racial or religious hatred, "or any other behaviour meant to deliberately bring upon a person harassment, alarm or distress."
<topyli> http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#offtopic
<jussi> or any other behaviour meant to deliberately bring upon a person harassment, alarm or distress. We do NOT tolerate discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, gender, sexual preference or other lifestyle choices and run with a zero-tolerance policy for libel and defamation.
<jussi> That pretty much covers it, no ?
<topyli> in legalese it does :)
<tsimpson> perhaps fn policy could be a little more explicit though
<topyli> agreed
<tsimpson> but that's something we can talk to them about
<jussi> Yeah, I think maybe for now its useful for us to add it, until freenode become more explicit?
<tsimpson> I'd go along with that
<topyli> it doesn't hurt to mention it in our guidelines anyway
<jussi> vote?
<tsimpson> we all know fn doesn't tolerate troll-pits, they just need to actually say so :)
<CarlFK> I don't think adding text about this will change anyones behavior.  It is handy for ops to have text they can reference when explaining to a user what is/isn't appropriate.
<tsimpson> CarlFK: same can be said for any of the rules, but we still have them ;)
<topyli> that can be said of the entire document
<topyli> heh
<tsimpson> we point people to the guidelines when they break rules, so they know what is/isn't acceptable, we don't want them to come back with "oh, but you didn't say I couldn't ...". we also don't want to have to write every little thing down either..
<tsimpson> [vote] Amend the guidelines in reference to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-April/001289.html
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Amend the guidelines in reference to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2011-April/001289.html.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<tsimpson> #endvote
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<IdleOne> +1 for what it is worth
<tsimpson> so who want's it?
<topyli> i can take ljl's suggestion and try to translate it from legal to english
<CarlFK> tsimpson: isn;t the coc have things not covered by fn policy?
<tsimpson> ok
<topyli> he's pretty much there
<CarlFK> meh, too late, never mind.
<tsimpson> [action] topyli to update the IRC Guidelines (until freenode policy includes it)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to update the IRC Guidelines (until freenode policy includes it)
<tsimpson> CarlFK: we have extra rules in addition to fn policy, but we think that this one is probably best in fn policy rather than in our policy
<tsimpson> and we have covered the last item on the agenda too
<CarlFK> tsimpson: that's what I was say-n :)
<m4v> topyli: I filled an IRC Guidelines example in the bug report if helps.
<topyli> m4v: grand, i'll have a look. thanks a lot
<topyli> oh i even remember it
<tsimpson> we should probably say this here too for those who don't know;
<m4v> though I'm not sure anymore if we're talking about the same topic, got confused when I was away.
<tsimpson> we have changed the time for the Saturday meetings to 11:00 UTC
<topyli> m4v: not completely the same :)
<m4v> topyli: ha I figured ;)
<tsimpson> so any other business not covered?
<IdleOne> if I may
<tsimpson> go for it
<jussi> Just a reminder to all that our next meeting time Has moved
<tsimpson> jussi: I just said that ;)
<topyli> jussi: tsimpson just... yeah :)
<jussi> oh bah
<IdleOne> I would like the IRCC to consider giving +o access to -ops to ikonia rww bazhang and perhaps a couple others by bypassing the application process in possible
<IdleOne> s/in/if
<IdleOne> They have been trusted members of the team long enough IMHO
<topyli> oh it's true that more ops should have ops in -ops
<tsimpson> what I don't understand is, when we opened the applications, we only had a couple of applicants
<topyli> no-one just bothers to apply
<tsimpson> it could be that the application process (for -ops) is a little too formal?
<IdleOne> tsimpson: some of them are not keen on applying for something they cleary should already have. I tend to agree with them on this.
<topyli> it's not hard to click a button on launchpad. the rest of the process can be quick because the applicants are (hopefully) well known
<tsimpson> topyli: well, applicants to -ops must already be an op in one or more core channels
<IdleOne> topyli: it's not that it is hard it's that it is hmm belittling (not sure that is the right word) but they don't feel they should have to apply and I agree.
<jussi> Perhaps we can have a simple no need for application call for -ops, just simple approve/decline process?
<topyli> tsimpson: indeed, so we don't need to go through the same scrutiny
<topyli> jussi: just the "join the launchpad team" part
<tsimpson> I'm thinking we make a very simple rule on who can and can't be an op in -ops
<tsimpson> rather than having people apply at all, I mean
<jussi> tsimpson: like?
<tsimpson> jussi: that's the part I haven't really thought of ;)
<topyli> heh
<topyli> looks!
<IdleOne> I think 6 months as a core op without major issue is a fair rule to get _o in -ops
<tsimpson> maybe if you've been an (active) op for X amount of time, you get +o in -ops?
<Tm_T> well, shouldn't someone have to do the click to get person to be member of the group in launchpad?
<IdleOne> err +o
<jussi> hrm, perhaps action yourself to come up with a proposaal for next meeting?
<topyli> Tm_T: yes they should
<jussi> And there may be some who dont feel ready or dont want the responsibility in there
<topyli> hence i don't see why interested people won't click the "join group" button
<Tm_T> I don't see how applying to be a group/team member is any reason to avoid doing it
<IdleOne> jussi: those who don't want it don't have to use the +o
<IdleOne> or can request it be removed
<topyli> i'd rather see people who are not interested simply not join the launchpad team
<jussi> Im all for the $time as a core op with out major issue, then you can apply and be approved.
<IdleOne> imo it usurps the ops authority in other channels when they can't remove a problem user from -ops
<topyli> IdleOne: that might be true
<tsimpson> IdleOne: that's how -ops has been for a very, very, long time. not that it's how it should be, but that's how it is
<IdleOne> if there isn't anyone around to do it it gives the problem user free rein to continue abusing
<tsimpson> and -ops is a little special, as it can be _very_ tempting to abuse your +o in there
<IdleOne> tsimpson: lots of things are "how it's been" time to fix some of them :)
<tsimpson> especially in heated situations
<topyli> the thing with ops is that most of the time there is a problem
<Tm_T> "if you're involved and there's other ops around, let them do the action" as a guideline would help?
<IdleOne> tsimpson: also why we are supposed to remove ourselves (back away) when we feel it getting personal
<topyli> so you can't just remove people when there's a problem :)
<IdleOne> catalysing is always the first step
<IdleOne> but sometimes we just can't
<IdleOne> even when other ops try to help
<tsimpson> if you are getting worked up, take a break
<tsimpson> even when it's in -ops
<topyli> it is true that sometimes trolls just aren't removed when they should be
<tsimpson> obviously you're the one who has to be convinced that <person> isn't going to continue to cause an issue in <channel>
<IdleOne> tsimpson: agreed but not being able to take appropriate action can be what is causing some ops to get worked up.
<tsimpson> and if things are getting bad in -ops, it's unlikely that process is going well
<jussi> right, so how can we resolve this? does anyone have an issue with: [29-May-11 22:09:36] <jussi> Im all for the $time as a core op with out major issue, then you can apply and be approved.
<IdleOne> I am +1 with that jussi
<CarlFK> "IdleOne: if there isn't anyone around to do it it gives the problem user free rein to continue abusing" - if no one is around, can abuse happen?  (tree falls in woods...)
<tsimpson> jussi: I think that's reasonable
<topyli> it's a good proposal. those not interested simply won't apply
<IdleOne> CarlFK: so we should just let the log readers have their fun in -ops?
<jussi> So what will be the $time? 6 months?
<CarlFK> IdleOne: doesn't bother me.
<IdleOne> CarlFK: bothers me some.
<IdleOne> we don't allow trolling in other channels why should we just let it happen in -ops
<topyli> CarlFK: the issue is that there might be other ops trying to resolve an issue with a user. but since they don't have ops in -ops, they can't remove the distraction
<IdleOne> jussi: I think that is fair and it should be auto for current ops with 6+ months under their belt
<CarlFK> topyli: that's a problem.
<tsimpson> jussi: 6/12 months, pick your favourite
<IdleOne> those ops who don't want the flag can just poke one of the IRCC to remove it
<topyli> even if we make it 12 months, we'll get a good number of new ops and the situation improves immediately
<jussi> Well 12 might be better, as then people have had a good amount of time to settle, learn the ropesetc. but Im not terribly against 6.
<Tm_T> those who want to have the flag, can go and click the "join team" in launchpad themselves
<tsimpson> I'd still want people to apply, it's just that it gets "automatic" approval
<jussi> tsimpson: ++
<tsimpson> "apply" is really the wrong word there
<topyli> "report for service" :)
<IdleOne> ok we still need them to go click the button
<CarlFK> IdleOne: personally I would rather let the troll burn up there time in an empty -ops than somewhere else. (empty taking into account people there that would be disturbed)
<jussi> Shall we vote then?
<Tm_T> IdleOne: ye, it's either the op or IRCC clicking the button, I don't see why IRCC should do the work for them/us
<tsimpson> jussi: 6 or 12?
<topyli> IdleOne: otherwise the other half will have to go and click "leave this group". what's the difference?
<jussi> tsimpson: Id say 12.
<Tm_T> +1 for 12
<jussi> topyli: 6/12?
<topyli> topyli> even if we make it 12 months, we'll get a good number of new ops and the situation  improves immediately
<tsimpson> [vote] Allow "automatic" approval of +o in #ubuntu-ops after 12 months
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Allow "automatic" approval of +o in #ubuntu-ops after 12 months.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<topyli> so i say 12
<tsimpson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from tsimpson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<jussi> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from jussi. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<topyli> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from topyli. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<tsimpson> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
<tsimpson> [agreed] "automatic" approval of +o in #ubuntu-ops after 12 months
<MootBot> AGREED received:  "automatic" approval of +o in #ubuntu-ops after 12 months
<jussi> We need to write this down somewhere.
<IdleOne> Thank you IRCC
<IdleOne> :)
<tsimpson> so, if anyone wants ops, https://launchpad.net/~irc-ubuntu-ops-ops
<topyli> where the rest of the application process is. we'll add a little section about the special procedure for -ops
<tsimpson> I can put something down on the op requirements page
<topyli> thanks
<tsimpson> [action] tsimpson to edit the operator requirements wiki page regarding auto +o in #ubuntu-ops
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to edit the operator requirements wiki page regarding auto +o in #ubuntu-ops
<tsimpson> any other other business?
<jussi> :)
<jussi> Im ok here :=)
<topyli> i'm in the middle of disaster here, but that's not for this meeting :)
<tsimpson> [action] tsimpson to do post-meetings tasks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tsimpson to do post-meetings tasks
<tsimpson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:24.
<IdleOne> thank you all :)
<j1mc> hey all
<Captainkrtek> hey j1mc
<j1mc> hi Captainkrtek
<Captainkrtek> meeting in a few?
<j1mc> yup
<Captainkrtek> kk
<DarkwingDuck> The doc meeting is in like 2 minutes right?
<Captainkrtek> hey DarkwingDuck :-)
<Captainkrtek> and yes
<DarkwingDuck> Hey Captainkrtek
<Captainkrtek> hows it going?
<j1mc> hi DarkwingDuck
<DarkwingDuck> Hey j1mc
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: i knew your name sounded familiar, but i wasn't sure why...
<DarkwingDuck> Captainkrtek: it's been busy. Trying to get this thing finished for Tuesdays interview
<j1mc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkwing_Duck
<DarkwingDuck> Yup
<Captainkrtek> hehe
<DarkwingDuck> LOL
<Rocket2DMn> hey all
<Captainkrtek> DarkwingDuck, very cool, im going to propose the merge of my lucid branch tonigh
<DarkwingDuck> Then I find out today that I was elected onto the Kubuntu Council
<Captainkrtek> oh wow :D
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: congrats
<j1mc> we will give folks a few more minutes
<Captainkrtek> k
<BravoDeltaLima> Hi all
<DarkwingDuck> j1mc: DarkwingDuck came off of my name, David Wonderly. I sign everything DW and DW was the nickname for Darkwing Duck in the show. So, it kinda stuck
<Captainkrtek> hi BravoDeltaLima
<j1mc> DarkwingDuck: nice
<j1mc> hi BravoDeltaLima
<j1mc> BravoDeltaLima: are you here for the docs team meeting?
<DarkwingDuck> Hey BravoDeltaLima
<BravoDeltaLima> jlmc, yes I am, I would like to contribute back to ubuntu and I thought I could start with documentation, because I don't do programming real well :-)
<DarkwingDuck> Dang this Wiki takes foreeeeeeeeeeever to update
<Captainkrtek> BravoDeltaLima, well welcome :-)
<DarkwingDuck> BravoDeltaLima: Welcome to the club on non-devs working on Docs
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<BravoDeltaLima> DW thanks
<Rocket2DMn> are we just waiting a few minutes for matthew?
<DarkwingDuck> j1mc: I'll be lurking, I'm in 3 meetings at once right now.
<DarkwingDuck> Hey Rocket2DMn
<j1mc> hi Rocket2DMn ... glad to see you here.
<j1mc> yeah, i was going to wait until 5 after
<Rocket2DMn> cool sounds good
<Captainkrtek> hey Rocket2DMn
<j1mc> well, it's 5 after - let's all have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks/Oneiric
<j1mc> hi vt
<j1mc> vtanthropologist  :)
<j1mc> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:06. The chair is j1mc.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<j1mc> there's a lot that we can do for this cycle... lots of things to take care of.
<Captainkrtek> sure looks like it :-)
<j1mc> what do you think should be our biggest priorities?
<issyl0> Hi all.
<j1mc> hi issyl0 - we're just getting started
<Captainkrtek> j1mc, how about the ondisk- web based topic?
<j1mc> issyl0: we're taking a look at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks/Oneiric and discussing priorities
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, i think the highest priority is making sure the docs for oneiric are up to date and available on time
<issyl0> Brilliant.  I'll just let you know now then that I might only be around of half of this, but at least I'm here and eager.  :-)
<Rocket2DMn> we clearly slipped on that for natty
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: right - so accurate and on-time docs.
<Captainkrtek> agreed, I think we need to be done and ready to go on time
<j1mc> Captainkrtek: the web-based help is certainly a big issue
<issyl0> Mmmhmm.
<Captainkrtek> yeah we need to decide which docs online and which offline
<Rocket2DMn> j1mc, what about web based help? html export? wiki? making translations available?
<Captainkrtek> yeah thats a good topic to start with
<j1mc> #topic - discussing web-based help
<j1mc> oops
<j1mc> #topic discussing web-based help
<Captainkrtek> hehe
<j1mc> anyone know what i'm doing wrong?
<Rocket2DMn> maybe it's case sensitive
<j1mc> #TOPIC discussing web-based help
<Captainkrtek> all caps
<Captainkrtek> remove the hash?
<j1mc> TOPIC discussing web-based help
<Captainkrtek> well this is embarassing
<issyl0> It's [TOPIC] isn't it?
<Captainkrtek> oh
<Captainkrtek> yes
<Captainkrtek> [TOPIC]  discussing web-based help
<j1mc> [TOPIC] discussing web-based help
<MootBot> New Topic:  discussing web-based help
<Captainkrtek> there
<issyl0> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot)
<j1mc> thanks, all :)
<issyl0> No worries.  Anyway...
<Captainkrtek> Discuss on-disk vs. web-based help strategy, including plans for help.ubuntu.com
<Captainkrtek> I think all topics should be online and only some essential on disk?
<j1mc> we need to come up with a plan on this... i've made a simple mockup of something...
<j1mc> but i'm sure i've skipped some steps in creating a mockup.
<j1mc> http://min.us/mvfcYuY
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://min.us/mvfcYuY
<Captainkrtek> that looks good j1mc
<j1mc> can you all see that?
<vtanthropologist> I see it
<issyl0> Yep.
<BravoDeltaLima> i see it
<j1mc> one cool thing is that we can output mallard to epub now
<Captainkrtek> oh nice
<vtanthropologist> I like the idea of an epub version
<Captainkrtek> was talking to some of the Ubuntu-Manual guys, might do a kindle version next release
<j1mc> Captainkrtek: cool
<Captainkrtek> maybe release the help guide as a free kindle book?
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: you helped with some of the xslt stuff in getting help.ubuntu.com ready, right?
<Rocket2DMn> just a few tweaks to our wrapper around the FOSS ones for docbook and mallard
<j1mc> i have a feeling that... for this release, we'll need to focus on getting a decent foundation in place for help.ubuntu.com
<j1mc> getting our strategy and infrastructure around it situated
<j1mc> so that we can have a great site ready for 12.04 (which is an LTS)
<j1mc> do any of you have experience with web development?
<Captainkrtek> nope
<BravoDeltaLima> nothing past basic HTML and using Wordpress
<Rocket2DMn> nothing but some basics
<vtanthropologist> I have a little, but are you thinking of creating a whole new site?  why not use the existing wiki?
<j1mc> yeah, same here.
<issyl0> Same.  :P
<issyl0> Really...
<j1mc> vtanthropologist: good question. help.ubuntu.com kind of sticks out as a sore thumb compared to the rest of ubuntu.com
<j1mc> also... have a look at this: http://min.us/mvfcYuY
<j1mc> oops
<Rocket2DMn> all the branding and scheme is outdated, we dont have anybody with the experience to get it up to speed
<j1mc> http://docs.openstack.org/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://docs.openstack.org/
<issyl0> j1mc: Does responsibility for rebranding that lie with us?
<issyl0> s/us/the docs team/
<j1mc> issyl0: i think we'd need to work with the canonical web and design group, at least to a certain extent
<Rocket2DMn> to my knowledge, it's been up to each team to update their own sites, but we should be able to get help
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: yeah
<issyl0> Rocket2DMn: Yeah, I thought so too.
<Rocket2DMn> i know the forums are still outdated, they are planning a big upgrade soon though
<j1mc> one good thing about the openstack stuff is that they host all of their code on launchpad
<issyl0> OK.
<j1mc> and the woman who leads up openstack docs is really good and super friendly
<j1mc> if you check out the browser view of that docs page...
<Captainkrtek> looks very good
<j1mc> that's all done with docbook and a gsoc project
<j1mc> but... we'd need to talk this all out to get it well integrated, you know?
<Rocket2DMn> looks like javascript is required
<issyl0> Oooh, very nice.
<Captainkrtek> yeah
<Captainkrtek> that'd be a big jump from the current wiki
<j1mc> Captainkrtek: we're talking about help.ubuntu.com, which isn't a wiki right now. (not help.ubuntu.com/community)
<j1mc> the latter is a wiki, though
<Captainkrtek> gotcha
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: what do you think? there would be a good amount to plan, but we'll just need to start on it.
<Rocket2DMn> i think i got lost between the ePub and openstack stuff - these are differnet right?
<Captainkrtek> yes
<j1mc> well, yeah. the openstack stuff would actually be more for the server guide.
<Rocket2DMn> and docbook can be converted to be displayed like this?
<j1mc> like the openstack stuff?
<Rocket2DMn> yeah
<j1mc> yes, this whole setup is derived from dockbook sources: http://docs.openstack.org/cactus/openstack-compute/admin/content/
<Rocket2DMn> it looks nice, we would have to get our hands on the transformation tool(s) and then write our own CSS for it to match the Ubuntu theme
<Rocket2DMn> I don't have the time or experience to pull that off, but it could probably be done
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: right... the good news is that all of the build infrastructure and transform tools are already in launchpad.
<Rocket2DMn> so you said, but i think you're asking the wrong person.  You really need to bounce this off of Adam
<j1mc> i will do some initial work on that. i think i could do a test build of stuff over the weekend next weekend.
<j1mc> i've talked with him about it already, and robbie williamson from the server group likes it.
<Rocket2DMn> ok, sounds good
<j1mc> [ACTION] Jim to do a test build of server docs using the openstack build setup
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Jim to do a test build of server docs using the openstack build setup
<j1mc> is there anyone from the group who is interested in working up plans for help.ubuntu.com
<j1mc> in general?
<Captainkrtek> I could in workin with someone else maybe?
<Captainkrtek> working*
<j1mc> the server docs are just one part, but we'll need a more comprehensive look at it
<j1mc> Captainkrtek: yeah, i think it's too much to do with just one person
<Captainkrtek> if someone else is onboard then sure :)
<vtanthropologist> I'd be happy to help with that
<j1mc> i would like to work on it, too
<Captainkrtek> all 3 of us then :-)
<j1mc> anyone else? i'm sure that we'll get more people later, but anyone else for now?
<BravoDeltaLima> I could help out also
 * issyl0 could do.  :-)
<Captainkrtek> so the whole team ;-)
<j1mc> heh
<issyl0> Captainkrtek: That's a good thing!
<Captainkrtek> yes it is :D
<j1mc> we're all new to web stuff, so we'll see how it goes.
<issyl0> Good good.
<j1mc> we should schedule a time to meet about the website
<Captainkrtek> yes
<j1mc> and move on for now.
<Captainkrtek> next sunday?
<j1mc> we'll schedule it via doodle?
<Captainkrtek> sure
<Captainkrtek> that works too :-)
<j1mc> [ACTION] set help.ubuntu.com meeting via doodle
<MootBot> ACTION received:  set help.ubuntu.com meeting via doodle
<j1mc> anything else on the website for now?
<j1mc> [TOPIC]Bugs status report
<MootBot> New Topic: Bugs status report
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: anything significant bugs that you could use help with?
<Captainkrtek> I can help with any bugs
<Captainkrtek> just need to finish some docs review tonight and I can do any bugs :-)
<issyl0> Mmmm, bugs.
<j1mc> mmmm  :)
 * issyl0 likes killing bugs.  :-)
<Rocket2DMn> nothing off the top of my head
<Captainkrtek> brb 1 sec
<Rocket2DMn> anybody is free to post patches or merge requests though :)
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: cool.
<j1mc> ok - next topic
<j1mc> we know we need to have docs done on time and accurate this time...
<j1mc> and we know we need to work on help.ubuntu.com
<j1mc> to me, other priorities are making sure we have good help for all of the default apps
<j1mc> and building out our 'doc infrastructure' a bit...
<j1mc> ... stuff like our team wiki, a style guide, documenting our workflows...
<Captainkrtek> I will have a merge request tonight
<j1mc> stuff like that.
<Captainkrtek> whoops late :P
<Rocket2DMn> yeah, the wiki always needs work...
<vtanthropologist> that sounds like a lot of priorities for a small, part-time team
<MichealH> j1mc: I could possibly do alot of work on XChat Documentation :P
<j1mc> hey MichealH
<MichealH> Hey j1
<Rocket2DMn> the wiki is literally managed chaos
<MichealH> *j1mc
<j1mc> MichealH: cool. doing xchat docs would be good. i think it is best to focus on apps that are installed by default on ubuntu, but if you did docs for xchat, and maybe helped out on docs for another app, that would be cool.
<j1mc> [TOPIC] Docs for default apps
<MootBot> New Topic:  Docs for default apps
<MichealH> j1mc: May I just ask wat this meeting is? I just walked in on it, i know ;)
<MichealH> and there is nothing on the fridge ;)
<j1mc> http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Tasks/ApplicationHelp
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Tasks/ApplicationHelp
<j1mc> MichealH: you have just joined the documentation team. :P
<issyl0> MichealH: The Ubuntu Documentation team.
<MichealH> Cool!
<MichealH> Im in...
<j1mc> :)
<j1mc> that link shows the status of gnome apps' documentation
<Captainkrtek> MichealH, we only focus on the help guide primarely
<Captainkrtek> primarily
<j1mc> basically, if there's an app that you use... if we each just picked one to work on...
<j1mc> even if we don't get all of the apps docs updated this release
<j1mc> we'll be further along
<MichealH> j1mc: You guys have a IRC?
<j1mc> we can coordinate with gnome docs team, too
<j1mc> MichealH: yes - #ubuntu-doc
<MichealH> Oh wow... Really close to the Channel limit of 120 :/
<issyl0> MichealH: I'm pretty sure you *don't* need to be in that many channels.  Even I'm not!  :P
<j1mc> what do people think about that goal - updating docs for default ubuntu apps?
<j1mc> does that seem doable?
<Captainkrtek> yes j1mc
<Captainkrtek> I could do a few
<MichealH> issyl0: 118 channels is alot, It almost does not let my laptop attach that many....
<Captainkrtek> I use a ton and know a lot about each
<Captainkrtek> Im in 20 channels max
<issyl0> I'm more of an editor than an author, so if any of you need editing help.  :-)
<MichealH> j1mc: So its a conmplete re-write of docs or a bug revamp?
<j1mc> MichealH: it depends. some apps might need a bigger rewrite than others
<MichealH> Okies
<Captainkrtek> j1mc, do we have any new undocumented apps?
<j1mc> issyl0: that is cool. there are some apps, like banshee or empathy that can just use some updates
<issyl0> Yep, I'm up for that.  :-)
<j1mc> Captainkrtek: that page lists the status of many of the apps' docs
<Captainkrtek> thanks
<vtanthropologist> I'm probably better doing the updates as well if there are enough to share around
<Captainkrtek> missed it when I ran for a sandwich
<j1mc> as a note, there may be some default apps, like software center, where if you want to contribute docs to that app, you would need to sign the canonical contributor agreement.
<j1mc> it's only necessar for canonical-type apps, and you don't have to work on those apps if you don't want to
<j1mc> this is kind of a lower priority than the main docs work, but if we can contribute to this during this cycle...
<j1mc> that will be good
<MichealH> j1mc: Wait, what agreement?
<MichealH> Link?
<j1mc> sure
 * MichealH thought the CoC was enough ;)
<j1mc> http://www.canonical.com/contributors
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.canonical.com/contributors
<j1mc> ^^ only necessary if you want to write docs for the certain canonical apps, like software center
<Rocket2DMn> I'd like to see us focus on core efforts that we can maintain moving forward, rather than working on a bunch of different things that may be fun but that we can't maintain
<j1mc> not necessary for writing docs for something like banshee or gedit
<Rocket2DMn> then we can ensure that we do those core efforts well
<Captainkrtek> anyways, next topic?
<Rocket2DMn> we're happy to help you get started on working with other projects' documentation though (like upstream Gnome and their apps)
<MichealH> j1mc: Good to be safe than sorry, though ;)
<j1mc> Rocket2DMn: good point - we'll need to be careful with our resources and make sure we don't spread ourselves too thin
<j1mc> ok - we're up on our hour, so i want to wrap up in the next 5 min
<j1mc> [TOPIC] Team wiki
<MootBot> New Topic:  Team wiki
<Captainkrtek> I can work on updating the wiki this summer
<j1mc> as Rocket2DMn said, the team wiki needs some love
<Captainkrtek> yeah haha
<Rocket2DMn> let's not confuse the team wiki at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ with the community docs wiki at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
<Captainkrtek> this wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/
<j1mc> i have done some initial work on recording what all is there so that we can reorganize it and get rid of cruft
<j1mc> but that isn't done yet.
<j1mc> follow-up at the next meeting on that?
<Captainkrtek> I gotta run, lunch, will continue this is the channel
<Captainkrtek> in* the channel
<Captainkrtek> #ubuntu-doc
<j1mc> later, Captainkrtek
<j1mc> i can follow-up on the list about that
<j1mc> ... i know we didn't get to cover everything we might have wanted in this meeting...
<j1mc> but any additional comments from folks for now?
<Rocket2DMn> i guess we better plan to have another meeting soon
 * j1mc nods
<j1mc> is 2 weeks ok? i will be out next weekend.
<vtanthropologist> I'm ok with that
<Rocket2DMn> i'm unsure about my schedule this summer, i'll just have to play it as we go
<j1mc> in general, do this time work for folks?
<j1mc> s/do/does
<Rocket2DMn> this time usually works out so people in Europe can attend without it being too late
<vtanthropologist> it's a good time for me in Sydney
<j1mc> great :)
<BravoDeltaLima> works for me
<j1mc> ok - we'll tentatively set the next one for two weeks from now, then.
<j1mc> we can also have some convesations on the ML
<j1mc> [ACTION] schedule next meeting for two weeks from today
<MootBot> ACTION received:  schedule next meeting for two weeks from today
<j1mc> anything else?
<j1mc> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:10.
<j1mc> ok - thanks for your time, everyone. i'll send the meeting minutes out to the ML
<j1mc> have a good rest of your sunday!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-21
<bencer> when does the DMB meeting start?
<tumbleweed> bencer: 19:00 UTC https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<bencer> yup, just saw it, thanks tumbleweed, i'll be arround here for my PerPackage application
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> Hello!
 * sbeattie o/
<micahg> at least I don't have to chair this one :)
<micahg> or do I?
 * micahg looks around for jdstrand
<jjohansen> micahg: thanks for volunteering :)
<micahg> jjohansen: I'm already doing one, what's two?
<jjohansen> micahg: just teasing we should wait for jdstrand even if you were running it
<micahg> I know :)
<jdstrand> ok, sorry
<jdstrand> I called the meeting then didn't show up :)
<jdstrand> that is pretty lame
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 21 18:23:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I am on triage this week
<jdstrand> mdeslaur and I will be finishing the work items review this week
<jdstrand> I will be publishing a libxml2 update today or tomorrow
<jdstrand> I have several pending updates I am working on
<jdstrand> and then an embargoed issue
<jdstrand> I'm hitting small work items here and there, and have started ufw python3 port (over the weekend, but may poke at it some this week)
<jdstrand> mdeslaur is off today. I know he is working on pending updates. he is in the happy place
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on community this week
<sbeattie> I've also got a few updates in progress.
<sbeattie> I'm also planning on apparmor work this week.
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> micahg: you're next
<jdstrand> sbeattie: are those apparmor work items, the SRU or some combination?
<sbeattie> jdstrand: SRU + work items, yes.
<micahg> I've got patch piloting today, webkit update for precise this week, apparmor profile fixes for Firefox/Thunderbird (SRU for lucid-precise), will do earlier in the week so as not to block sbeattie, and chromium's build is broke ATM, so I need to dig into that as there's a pending update
<jdstrand> awesome, thanks :)
<micahg> I guess that's it for me
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> It is a short week for me since I'm off Friday
<tyhicks> I took on a sudo update and a sudo feature backport last week, so I've still got my eCryptfs work that I planned on doing last week
<tyhicks> I imagine that getting caught up on eCryptfs bug fixes and the kernel merge window will soak up most of my week. I've got a few bug fixes that have patches written, I just haven't had a chance to test and push them upstream.
<tyhicks> If I do get through all of that early, I've got a pidgin update that is pending in the testing stage.
<tyhicks> (I see a reoccuring theme here :)
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
 * jjohansen needs to work with sbeattie on releasing apparmor 2.8 this week, there are a couple of minor patches to finish up/test finish. /me also needs to finish going through work items and sticking time estimates on them. After that its back to resurrecting prototypes, dbus, cgroups, env filtering
<jjohansen> I think that is about it jdstrand back to you?
<jdstrand> jjohansen: how did the quantal kernel fixes go?
<jjohansen> jdstrand: oh those look good, thanks for the kick I forgot to push them on the weekend
 * jjohansen will do that first
 * jjohansen got side tracked bug hunting
<jdstrand> cool
 * jdstrand wasn't trying to kick, just curious :)
<jjohansen> nah, is good
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libspring-java.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/python-tornado.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/drupal6-mod-views.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/dimp1.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pyfribidi.html
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> did that slightly out of order...
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> There are a lot of merge opportunities for packages listed in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/. Performing these updates is a great way to help Ubuntu and bolster your developer application.
<jdstrand> I also had two other things
<jdstrand> 1. jjohansen has too many work items. once he gives time estimates mdeslaur and I will look at them and then probably discuss as a team how to proceed (eg, Roadmap 'low' ones or reassign some)
<jdstrand> (mdeslaur will lead that effort)
<jdstrand> 2. the desktop team approached me about testing mozilla releases before upstream release day
<jdstrand> (fyi micahg ^)
<jdstrand> I said that this is the plan and that we have work items in place to achieve this
<micahg> they do realize this is one day, right?
<jdstrand> micahg: no, test the images for they tag them
<jdstrand> like we said, we build them automatically
<micahg> jdstrand: huh?
<jdstrand> when it gets close, we test
<jdstrand> s/for they/before they/
<micahg> yes, I mean there is only 1 work day to do this still (builds are tagged on Friday), yes, it's possible
<jdstrand> eg, the release every 6 weeks
<jdstrand> at 5 weeks, we can have testable packages
<micahg> no, we can't
<jdstrand> why?
<micahg> they push out fixes in the final week
 * jdstrand nods
<micahg> the beta PPA is for people to test
<jdstrand> the beta ppa is on 15 or something now, no?
<micahg> ideally, people are running the beta and reporting issues along the way so my final testing is basically a rubber stamp
<mdeslaur> test = look at 20 screenshots
<micahg> if I catch anything in my testing, it's too late anyways
<micahg> yeah, once we have the automated testing screenshots, I think I'll run that against the beta PPA weekly, that should improve things
<micahg> s/improve/catch things earlier/
<jdstrand> I would still argue that testing twice, once a week before and one day of would still be better than testing a day or two after
<jdstrand> even if it is not automated yet
<jdstrand> but anyway
<micahg> sure, I can QA the beta the week before
<jdstrand> in this particular instance, that asked if we could test early (ie, twice) to catch anything for the point release
<jdstrand> micahg: can you coordinate that with the desktop team-- ie the exact timing)
<micahg> the point release is in 3 months, we'll have 2 more releases before that
<jdstrand> micahg: you might also mention the beta ppa-- I mentioned it, but they ones I saw were way past '13'-- they were on 15
<micahg> 12.04.1 will get FIrefox 14
<sbeattie> jdstrand: is there ay possibility of getting QA resources to assist?
<jdstrand> micahg: yes, I know-- but they asked for this to happen in a couple of weeks. can you coordinate/clarify what they need?
 * jdstrand is trying not to be the middle-man
<micahg> jdstrand: sure, who's the contact for that?
<jdstrand> seb128 asked me-- I imagine either him or chris
<micahg> sbeattie: I asked QA a while back to start running QRT, maybe I can get them to review the results more frequently once we have the screenshotting capability
<jdstrand> sbeattie: well, now that we are on rapid release, we don't have the big call for testing-- everything is just a 'regular' update
<micahg> jdstrand: I think he meant help with testing :)
<jdstrand> and all they are asking for is us to do our regular testing by some point
<sbeattie> jdstrand: what micahg said, not just calls for testing.
<jdstrand> (see last statement)
<jdstrand> and since that regular testing is something we should be doing anyway, I said 'ok'
<jdstrand> anyhoo, this is a little more complicated than it has to be. desktop team needs tests to happen be a certain date. if micahg can ascertain the date and do the testing, that would be great. everything else is executing our work items
<jdstrand> I think that is it
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 21 18:57:23 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-21-18.23.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-21-18.23.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, tyhicks, jjohansen: thanks!
<micahg> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thank you!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<tyhicks> thanks!
<jdstrand> ah, one more thing:
<jdstrand> Felix Geyer (debfx) provided a debdiff for pidgin-otr (LP: #1000363)
<jdstrand> Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
<micahg> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
 * stgraber waves
<tumbleweed> hi
<bencer> hi all, bencer here for the DMB meeting
<micahg> we need one more for quorum
 * bdrung waves
<micahg> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 21 19:04:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is micahg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<micahg> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of previous action items
<micahg> I don't seem to recall any that need discussing and the wiki isn't showing any either
<micahg> anyone have anything to discuss WRT this?
 * micahg takes that as a no, moving on
<stgraber> I think we took care of all past actions during the last meeting, that's unless we count the recuring action for cody-somerville to write that wiki page on testimonials, but this one has been there for more than 6 months now :)
 * micahg also has a recurring action item that he'll get to next week
<micahg> #topic Cesare Falco PPU
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Cesare Falco PPU
<micahg> cfalco: are you around?
<cfalco> hi all!
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/c.falco/DeveloperApplication
 * tumbleweed looks for an IRC log for the previous conversation
<micahg> #link http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/23/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:35
<tumbleweed> ah, thanks
<micahg> cfalco: so, continuing from last time, if a few files moved from one package to another, let's say mame -> mame-common, what changes would need to made to the packaging to accommodate this
<micahg> *to be made
<cfalco> depends
<bdrung> micahg: your question is a reminder for me for the vlc PPA package. ;)
<cfalco> @micahg: what's vlc? :o
<meetingology> cfalco: Error: "micahg:" is not a valid command.
<micahg> cfalco: vlc is a package that bdrung maintains in Debian
<cfalco> micahg: what's vlc? :o
<cfalco> ah ok :)
<cfalco> mame should depend on mame-common
<cfalco> and maybe also a breaks or something, or dpkg could have trouble in removing mame before installing mame-common
<cfalco> but before doing anything I would check the debian policy ;)
<tumbleweed> let's assume you already had mame and mame-common, and so mame was already depending on mame-common
<tumbleweed> but you moved a file from mame to mame-common
<cfalco> I guess replace is only suitable when *all* files get moved
<cfalco> correct?
<micahg> replaces isn't what you think it would be
<micahg> cfalco: do you know where to look up these things?
<cfalco> micahg: ok, so I assume I should use replace?
<cfalco> micahg: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
<micahg> well, I'd like you to tell me the changes :) (and that's the right link)
<cfalco> ok both, replaces: and breaks: :$
<cfalco> and we were assuming depends: from the start
<cfalco> I must admit I thought replaces: is only suitable when *all* files are to be replaced
<micahg> for which packages and are they versioned?
<micahg> cfalco: yeah, replaces is slightly counterintuitive from the non-packaging definition
<cfalco> micahg: the version I'm packaging... i.e I'm packaging mame-common 2.0: -> Replaces: mame (<< 2.00)
<cfalco> where << is strictly less than iirc
<micahg> cfalco: cool, thanks
<bdrung> cfalco: which tools will you use to sync a package from Debian to Ubuntu?
<cfalco> bdrung: I guess it's syncpackage, but I still have to read all the documentation on this
<bdrung> cfalco: why not just use dput?
<cfalco> bdrung: I see it preserves the checksums and I'm not sure dput would do that
<bdrung> cfalco: dput can preserve the checksums, but it opens a window for errors. that's why using syncpackage is recommended.
<tumbleweed> cfalco: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<cfalco> not yet
<tumbleweed> please do, it's where freezes are announced
<tumbleweed> (amongst other useful things)
<cfalco> tumbleweed: I'll do it for sure :D
<barry> cfalco: i see that mame is out of sync b/w ubuntu and debian.  what are your plans for sync'ing them and how would you go about doing that?
<cfalco> barry: mame 0.146 has just been released today, it will mark the first release synced from Debian
<tumbleweed> \o/
<barry> cfalco: cool.  do you foresee any reason for ubuntu to carry deltas from debian in the future?
<cfalco> barry: no, I'm working with the debian maintainers and we will make things suitable for both distros as much as we can
<barry> cfalco: great, thanks
<bdrung> cfalco: btpd is only available in Ubuntu. are there plans to get it into Debian?
<cfalco> bdrung: no at present, but I'd like to. I find it very useful, but it seems nobody else is interested.
<bdrung> cfalco: how did you come to the conclusion that nobody is interested?
<cfalco> bdrung: is the utnubu team still  active? maybe I could find some help from them.
<cfalco> bdrung: I have no feedbacks in ubuntu, let alone debian... ;)
<tumbleweed> cfalco: there are a bunch of ubuntu people who are DDs. I'm working on a list that makes them easy to find
<cfalco> tumbleweed: cool! is it in the wiki?
<bdrung> cfalco: dunno if utnubu is still active, but debian mentors is up and running.
<micahg> DEX has superseded utnubu for the most part AIUI
<micahg> Ubuntu DEX to be more specific
<tumbleweed> yeah, you don't need ubuntu-developers to sponsor it, any debian sponsor will do. But obviously ubuntu people have extra motivation to help us get ubuntu packagesinto Debian
<tumbleweed> the list is here, but doesn't show who the DDs are yet http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/debian-ubuntu-developers/
<cfalco> I see micahg is a DEX member, right? :)
<micahg> yeah, with no Debian uploads
 * micahg needs to fix that
<micahg> cfalco: are you familiar with how to request a freeze exception and when it's appropriate
<cfalco> micahg: i did it once for btpd, for a minor fix in a configuration file iirc
<cfalco> it was long ago, I'd need to check the wiki :$
<micahg> cfalco: ok, you know where that is?
<cfalco> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
<micahg> cfalco: great
<micahg> ok, any more questions?
<bdrung> yes
<bdrung> cfalco: what changes with DIF?
<cfalco> bdrung: after dif packages with differences between ubuntu and debian must be imported explicitly by a developer
<bdrung> cfalco: are package with differences between ubuntu and debian synced automatically before the DIF?
<cfalco> bdrung: I guess no, as the version is different
<cfalco> I mean the 0ubuntuNN suffix
<bdrung> cfalco: then i have to ask again: what is the different before and after the DIF?
<bdrung> because packages with 0ubuntuNN needs to be always synced manually
<bdrung> (or merged)
<cfalco> bdrung: I guess it's like the "main" freeze
<cfalco> I mean, before dif you sync the package
<cfalco> after dif you ask something like a freeze exception
<bdrung> no: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze
<bdrung> new versions of packages will be automatically imported from Debian where they have not been customized for Ubuntu
<bdrung> that's before the DIF and it needs to be done manually afterwards
<cfalco> bdrung: so no syncpackage is required on a non-customised package before dif?
<bdrung> you are still allowed to sync packages with new features after DIF
<bdrung> cfalco: exactly
<cfalco> bdrung: great
<micahg> that is unless you have an immediate need in the devel release (bug fix needed immediately, FTBFS, NBS)
<cfalco> and should a new version be put in debian after dif I'll have to manually sync it in ubuntu, right?
<tumbleweed> yup
<micahg> ok, we need to vote
<cfalco> bdrung, micahg, tumbleweed: thanks!
<micahg> #voters bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung cody-somerville micahg stgraber tumbleweed
<Laney> posh
<micahg> #vote Cesare Falco PPU for btpd and mame
<meetingology> Please vote on: Cesare Falco PPU for btpd and mame
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<micahg> stgraber: ?
<stgraber> +0 [would have liked to see better pre-meeting knowledge of the Ubuntu processes and freezes]
<meetingology> +0 [would have liked to see better pre-meeting knowledge of the Ubuntu processes and freezes] received from stgraber
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Cesare Falco PPU for btpd and mame
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> cfalco: congratulations
<cfalco> thanks anyone! :)
<micahg> #action stgraber to give cfalco PPU for btpd and mame
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to give cfalco PPU for btpd and mame
<micahg> #action micahg to add cfalco to ubuntu-dev
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to add cfalco to ubuntu-dev
<micahg> #topic PPU for Jorge Salamero Sanz
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPU for Jorge Salamero Sanz
<micahg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JorgeSalamero/PerPackageDeveloperApplication
<micahg> cfalco: one last thing, just want to encourage you to come to #ubuntu-motu with any questions
<stgraber> micahg: action done
<micahg> stgraber: thanks
<micahg> bencer: can you introduce yourself?
<bencer> hi all
<bencer> I'm Jorge Salamero aka bencer
<cfalco> micahg: sure, thank you! :)
<bencer> I'm a DD since a few years already, now I'm working on eBox Technologies, the company behind Zentyal (previously eBox Platform)
<bencer> I'm applying for PerPackage rights to upload zentyal packages to Universe, eventually main if we make it
<bencer> I've been working on the packages, although is jacalvo, the product manager the one making the releases
<bencer> and I also have pushed all the needed deps via Debian and then requesting the sync
<bencer> I was in Oakland on the UDS, holding 4 sessions on Zentyal / Ubuntu integration
<bencer> and seems that we made a good progress making people aware of Zentyal and for Q we have some blueprints we are going to work together with Edubuntu ppl
<bencer> I think that's it :)
<bencer> micahg: any questions?
<barry> bencer: hi.  i noticed that zentyal is only in ubuntu currently.  you're a dd - why isn't zentyal in debian?
<bencer> barry: zentyal uses some ubuntu specific stuff
<bencer> like upstart, appamor and specially the versions of the packages
<bencer> i always say that would take 3-4 days work to make it fully working on debian
<micahg> upstart and apparmor are in Debian (not entirely functional yet, but that's a WIP)
<bencer> but we dont have the time
<bencer> i know, its wip
<micahg> once they are updated and available and working, would you then be interested in pushing this work up?
<bencer> but probably the biggest issue is that our versions depend on ubuntu versions
<barry> bencer: but if someone contributed changes to make it possible, would you sponsor it into debian?
<bencer> sure
<bencer> we are working a lot on getting more contributors
<micahg> I'm glad to see the dependencies at least pushed to Debian which lays the ground work for someone to do the last mile bit
<bencer> due the philosophy of zentyal, most of our community are sysadmins with not developers/integrators
<bencer> micahg: yes, we always do that, we want to contribute as much as we can to debian/ubuntu
<bencer> we have sent some patches to asterisk
<bencer> filled bugs to launchpad on per daily basis (almost) :)
<bencer> and some contributions to samba4 are on the way
<tumbleweed> bencer: I seem to recall that the zentyl packages have only had a single upload so far
<tumbleweed> which required a bit of back and forth for sponsorship
<tumbleweed> are you confident in yoru ability to maintain them from here?
<bencer> ok, sorry guys, i had some problems with the charger, im back
<bencer> tumbleweed: what happened is that in the past, was a volunteer/unofficial upload
<tumbleweed> what has changed since then?
<bencer> now one of our project goals is to get the best integration with the ubuntu ecosystem we can get
<bencer> so we have official resources=time, to invest in ubuntu
<tumbleweed> right
<bencer> also this is not a new upload, but a rename of the packages
<bencer> in the past the packages were ebox-*
<bencer> now they are zentyal-*
<tumbleweed> yeah, I seem to recall that Breaks + Replaces was missing in the rename
<bencer> yeah, that was fixed on time :)
<micahg> bencer: yes, but you also only had one round of the ebox packages, and that was a year previous
<tumbleweed> I assume we can expect some more frequent uploads now?
<bencer> yes, i've not too much to say about the previous packages
<bencer> tumbleweed: yes, i can show you more than words
<tumbleweed> bencer: you are subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<bencer> http://git.zentyal.org/zentyal.git/commit/ac1c7717efdd52cb763ec55e8c10b61301a8b053
<bencer> this commit fixes one of the reported issues on launchpad
<bencer> to the packages we uploaded
<bencer> we are going to discuss if it should go to SRU or not
<bencer> tumbleweed: sure
<bencer> also security, -server, -edu and -doc
<tumbleweed> good
<bencer> since we have a chapter in the ubuntu-server-guide
<bdrung> bencer: why are the packages all native packages?
<bencer> bdrung: this has been a hot point
<bencer> we consider zentyal as an ubuntu only software
<bencer> is tied to ubuntu software like i said (upstart, apparmor, etc)
<bencer> and is tied to specific versions included in ubuntu
<bencer> our configuration templates are tested with the versions on ubuntu
<bdrung> other packages are tied to upstart and apport too, but aren't native
<bencer> not with any squid or dansguardian versions for example
<bencer> bdrung: imho we can find reasons to push in both directions, native and non-native
<bencer> according to the policy, we define ourselves as native, and we are native
<bencer> true that we could be non-native
<bencer> but current status is as it is
<bencer> maybe the day someone contributes debian support, we can evaluate going to non-native
<bdrung> but with more maintenance power it could become non-native with supporting other distros?
<bencer> but at the moment, we only run on ubuntu, so we are native :)
<bencer> could be, but the company is not interested in supporting other distros
<bencer> so that would be community contributions
<bdrung> you wrote that you dislike when Debian and Ubuntu packaging are different without justification
<bdrung> do you have examples for it?
<bencer> in the past asterisk, at the moment i dont know the status
<bencer> i think they are the same now
<micahg> no, we still have a diff
<bencer> if eventuall we want zentyal in debian
<bencer> having the packages we use, be as similar as possible, would help a lot
<bencer> but again, i dont see debian support close, maitenance of it wouldnt be easy neither
<bencer> as the release cycles of both doesnt fit
<bdrung> bencer: any ideas to reduce the amount of differences? do you work on getting the differences reduced?
<bencer> bdrung: our first goal was to get the zentyal packages on a good shape in precise
<bencer> now our goal is going to be to contribute patches to make all the services we depend on, use upstart
<bencer> also some contributions are in the roadmap, like sssd support on auth-client-config
<bencer> reducing the differences was a personal thing, more than something scheduled on the roadmap
<micahg> bencer: are you aware of the various freezes in Ubuntu and how they might affect your ability to upload?
<bencer> yes
<bencer> micahg: we already had to deal with that
<bencer> zentyal packages got uploaded with a feature freeze exception
<micahg> bencer: ok, what about the milestone freezes, if for example, edubuntu would have an image with zentyal on it
<bencer> yup, our internal planification is done with the wiki page of release timeline next to us
<bencer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<micahg> so, if zentyal were on and Edubuntu image, would you be able to upload a new version on June 6?
<micahg> s/and/an/
<bencer> yup, actually we plan to upload something close to our zentyal 3.0rc
<bencer> i already discussed this with jacalvo, in charge of the releases
<bencer> but as this schedule was published a few days ago, still we dont have detailed plan
<bencer> but we are totally aware of the dates
<micahg> bencer: I'm not so sure :), June 6 is relevant for uploads on images, do you know why?
<highvoltage> yeah we talked about it in the edubuntu session, so the actual upload after the freeze would just be a minor bug fix upload
<bencer> micahg: probably to deal with images sizes?, but i dont know exactly why
<bencer> having upload privileges will help to be faster uploading packages
<micahg> bencer: for alphas, the archive is soft frozen, any uploads for sources that affect images needs to be coordinated with teh release team
<bencer> also rebuilding all the images take time, so a change in on of the packages forces a complete rebuild
<micahg> right
<micahg> so, given that, would you still upload a new version on June 6?
<bencer> only if a critical bug is found that forces us to do so
<bencer> but will try our best to have everything before ready
<micahg> bencer: what would you do if you found a bug that needed to be uploaded?
<bencer> also i cound with the support of more experienced people like highvoltage or jamespage (or last sponsor)
<bencer> count*
<bencer> so we will be asking for advice to them when in doubt
<bencer> well, as this will be because edubuntu, first of all i will discuss about the bug with edubuntu people
<bencer> and if we dont have any other option that request a new upload
<bencer> file a bug and explain the release team the situation
<micahg> bencer: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce?
<bencer> yup
<bencer> all announces about release dates are sent there
<micahg> bencer: do you envision more people wanting to apply for upload rights to these packages?
<bencer> jacalvo in the future too, so i'm not the only one, in case i'm super busy with something else
<bencer> also i plan to ask for motu once i'm more experienced with the ubuntu workflows, which are different to the debian ones i'm used to and i know well
<micahg> ok, I'd like to create a packageset with those packages in it then
<bencer> this way we will be able to work more on depends
<bencer> but that will be after we start contributing patches to these packages, doesnt make sense to do it now
<micahg> bencer: do you have a description we can use for that packageset to determine what belongs in it?  (is zentyal-* sufficient?)
<bencer> there is an other one
<micahg> (we still have to vote on the packageset and your rights as well)
<bdrung> zbuildtools does not match zentyal-*
<micahg> bencer: right, I see zbuildtools as well (I mean for future additions that won't require coming back to the DMB to be added)
<bencer> zbuildtools
<bencer> +zentyal-*
<micahg> ok
<micahg> so, we'll take 2 votes, one on the packageset and one for bencer to upload to it
<micahg> #vote create a zentyal packageset with zbuildtools, zentyal-ca, zentyal-common, zentyal-core, zentyal-dhcp, zentyal-dns, zentyal-firewall, zentyal-network, zentyal-ntp, zentyal-objects, zentyal-openvpn, zentyal-printers, zentyal-samba, zentyal-services, zentyal-squid, zentyal-users as the initial packages and zentyal-* for the addition criteria
<meetingology> Please vote on: create a zentyal packageset with zbuildtools, zentyal-ca, zentyal-common, zentyal-core, zentyal-dhcp, zentyal-dns, zentyal-firewall, zentyal-network, zentyal-ntp, zentyal-objects, zentyal-openvpn, zentyal-printers, zentyal-samba, zentyal-services, zentyal-squid, zentyal-users as the initial packages and zentyal-* for the addition criteria
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<barry> +1
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<micahg> Laney: ?
<Laney> +0 // sorry, I've dropped the ball on this one and not been paying attention
<meetingology> +0 // sorry, I've dropped the ball on this one and not been paying attention received from Laney
<micahg> we have a +1 from tumbleweed also
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: create a zentyal packageset with zbuildtools, zentyal-ca, zentyal-common, zentyal-core, zentyal-dhcp, zentyal-dns, zentyal-firewall, zentyal-network, zentyal-ntp, zentyal-objects, zentyal-openvpn, zentyal-printers, zentyal-samba, zentyal-services, zentyal-squid, zentyal-users as the initial packages and zentyal-* for the addition criteria
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> #action micahg to create LP team related to the new packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to create LP team related to the new packageset
<micahg> #action stgraber to create the packageset and make the new team the uploader of it
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to create the packageset and make the new team the uploader of it
<micahg> #action micahg to document the packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to document the packageset
<micahg> #vote Jorge Salamero Sanz for upload rights to the zentyal packageset
<meetingology> Please vote on: Jorge Salamero Sanz for upload rights to the zentyal packageset
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<Laney> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from Laney
<bdrung> we have a +1 from tumbleweed also
<tumbleweed> +1 (I'm back)
<meetingology> +1 (I'm back) received from tumbleweed
<micahg> +0 conditionally that bencer reviews the freeze process again with stgraber (I would have liked to have seen more go arounds for a +1, there were only 2 uploads of the set a year apart)
<meetingology> +0 conditionally that bencer reviews the freeze process again with stgraber (I would have liked to have seen more go arounds for a +1, there were only 2 uploads of the set a year apart) received from micahg
<micahg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Jorge Salamero Sanz for upload rights to the zentyal packageset
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg> bencer: congratulations
<bencer> yay! thanks!!
<bencer> :)
<micahg> #action stgraber to review the freeze process with bencer
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to review the freeze process with bencer
<micahg> #action micahg to add bencer to zentyal packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to add bencer to zentyal packageset
<micahg> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<micahg> next chair?
<tumbleweed> looks like I am
<tumbleweed> also, membership monitoring still broken
<micahg> #action tumbleweed to chair the next meeting
<tumbleweed> please action me to fix it
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to chair the next meeting
<micahg> #action tumbleweed to fix membership monitoring script
<meetingology> ACTION: tumbleweed to fix membership monitoring script
<micahg> anything else?
<bdrung> the early meeting time
<bdrung> ?
<micahg> ah, right, do we have any results?
<Laney> cody needs to reply
<Laney> and BDRUNG!
<Laney> however the only time left now is thursday 1pm
<micahg> #action cody-somerville and bdrung to vote in early meeting poll
<meetingology> ACTION: cody-somerville and bdrung to vote in early meeting poll
<micahg> anything else?
<bdrung> Laney: i did
<bdrung> maybe i failed in submitting it. i failed to understand this website
<Laney> the website doesn't agree
<micahg> ok, we can take this out of meeting, anything else?
<micahg> going
<bdrung> i have no time Thursdays
<bdrung> (only after 14 utc)
<bdrung> wrong: only after 15 utc
<micahg> ok, let's take the meeting time to the list, we can announce it later
<micahg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 21 21:12:46 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-21-19.04.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-21-19.04.html
<barry> thanks micahg !
<stgraber> thanks!
<micahg> thanks everyone
<cfalco>  #quit
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-22
<smoser> o/
<Daviey> o/
<s3h> howdie
<rbasak> \o
<arosales> hello
<ttx> ..o
<smb> \o
<m_3> o/
<s3h> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 22 16:01:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is s3h. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s3h> #TOPIC Review ACTION points from previous
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous
<s3h> sigh, bad lag
<s3h> jamespage to send out an email to ubuntu-server about the new template
<jamespage> done
<s3h> sweet
<s3h> daviey update release bugs for quantal
<s3h> Daviey: ^
 * utlemming has a conflict
<Daviey> hye
<Daviey> Hey
<Daviey> The spec's which are currently under consideration are:
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=drafter
<Daviey> If there is a spec you are watching that is not on this list, please make it known.
<zul> heeeeeylo
<Daviey> The Spec's that people are responsible for driving to Approved state are, for example:
<Daviey> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~james-page/+specs?searchtext=servercloud-q&role=assignee
<Daviey> Note, that 'Assignee' actually means the person responsible for driving the WI *specifications* (and getting the blueprint Approved).. *NOT* necessarily doing the tasks. :)
<Daviey> I went through them earlier today, and most are in a pretty good state.  However, please can those that require review (to be Approved), please be set to 'Review' state please.
<Daviey> Any questions about Spec state?
<roaksoax> o/
<s3h> LINK https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~james-page/+specs?searchtext=servercloud-q&role=assignee
<Daviey> ^^ obv, switch out james-page for $launchpad-id
<s3h> #LINK https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~james-page/+specs?searchtext=servercloud-q&role=assignee
<s3h> thanks Daviey
<s3h> zul
<zul> hmm?
<s3h> zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<zul> havent done yet
<arosales> jamespage:  did zul sync up with you?  If not, I'll need to catch up with zul.
<arosales> ah ok
<arosales> I'll catch up with you later zul
<zul> oh no!
<s3h> (null)
<roaksoax> zul: you can't run.. your knee :P
<Daviey> Regarding Development for Quantal... Are people frantically working on Merges?
<zul> knee is fine :P
<lynxman> o/ (sorry for the tardiness)
<SpamapS> Are we not using the bot?
<roaksoax> i started working on merges yesterday
<s3h> zul: arosales: carry that over?
<rbasak> I'm frantically working on the critical path for ARM server and MAAS. I regret I haven't managed to look at blueprints since UDS. And not done any merges :-/
<Daviey> I have a report here, showing the delta with *sid*/*unstable*... NOT the default parent series of wheezy/testing:
<zul> s3h: yep
<Daviey> http://people.canonical.com/~davewalker/delta.html
<s3h> #ACTION zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: zul talk to arosales and jamespage offline about SRU tracker
<s3h> ok NOW carrying on :)
<s3h> #TOPIC Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Quantal Development
<rbasak> I'd still like to do some merges though if there are any that can wait a couple of weeks. I have an apache2 one in a local branch pending testing.
<roaksoax> Daviey: so we should me merging from wheezy?
<Ursinha> can I be involved in the SRU tracker discussion, please?
<zul> Ursinha: yes since you took over it basically
<Ursinha> :)
<Daviey> roaksoax: no, but see if there are hits we should be merging.
<Ursinha> lol, thanks zul
<SpamapS> rbasak: apache2 should be 2.4, right?
<s3h> #ACTION zul to also pull Ursinha into SRU tracker talks
<meetingology> ACTION: zul to also pull Ursinha into SRU tracker talks
 * rbasak looks
<SpamapS> wait no
<SpamapS> 2.4 is stil in Debian experimental
<SpamapS> looks like squeeze will ship w/ 2.2
<SpamapS> (which sucks)
<SpamapS> But, timing. ;)
<rbasak> I just have a 2.2.22-5ubuntu1 prepared, to fix a specific bug
<rbasak> quantal is on 2.2.22-1ubuntu1
<SpamapS> rbasak: yeah stick with that
<SpamapS> we don't want to do the transition before Debian :)
<rbasak> :-)
 * SpamapS has learned how painful that can be w/ MySQL 5.5
<s3h> (null)
<s3h> SpamapS: do you mind driving release bugs?
<zul> SpamapS:  hah hah :)
<SpamapS> eh, uh.. sure.. let me just find that link
<s3h> SpamapS: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<Daviey> ^^ I updated it to Quantal the other day.
<Daviey> Still, not very populated.. but that is expected at this point in the cycle.
<SpamapS> bug 888123
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 888123 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Quantal) "erlang version 14.b.2-dfsg-3ubuntu2 failed to build with openjdk-7" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/888123
<SpamapS> jamespage: ^
<SpamapS> bug 930916
<jamespage> on it - waiting for doko to reappear to check my openjdk-7 fix (its a scary package)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 930916 in amavisd-new (Ubuntu) "amavis start-stop script fails to stop amavisd" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930916
<SpamapS> The bug I keep procrastinating on. Will try to get some time for it later this week. Busy w/ juju SRU to precise today.
<jamespage> SpamapS, is that SRU worthy?
<SpamapS> Yes
<SpamapS> it was in precise's release bugs too :-P
<jamespage> I could pick it up if that would help
<SpamapS> jamespage: sure. take it. :) Its a very simple fix.
<jamespage> SpamapS, ack
<SpamapS> bug 974584
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 974584 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "Semaphores cannot be created in lxc container" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/974584
<s3h> I'm waiting to see if someone speaks up there, else I'll aks for the patch to be sponsored tomorrow
<SpamapS> woot
<SpamapS> bug 1001846
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001846 in cobbler (Ubuntu) "cobbler fails to install with error code 1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001846
<roaksoax> so that seems to be a corner case and I've requested for more information even though the proposed fix makes sense
<SpamapS> bug 880339
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 880339 in mysql-5.5 (Ubuntu Precise) "AppArmor profile needs update" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880339
<SpamapS> I believe that one is well understood and is actually a bug in dh_apparmor
<SpamapS> In some cases, /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.sbin.mysqld is removed because of the transfer of ownership from 5.1 -> 5.5
<SpamapS> Have a patch, just need to apply it (got stalled because apparmor was FTBFS, but that got fixed recently)
<SpamapS> bug 901881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 901881 in glance (Ubuntu) "nova and glance should depend on python-keystone" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901881
<SpamapS> zul: ^^
<zul> SpamapS: ill double check
<SpamapS> I see we have the MIR's listed there too... we should probably track those
<zul> new libvirt is pending a MIR btw
<Daviey> Now is also a good time to raise any issues NOT being tracked on that list. :)
<s3h> and that MIR is not on ts list
<s3h> (dwarves-dfsg)
<SpamapS> zookeeper, I think, is approved.. but we haven't added the depends yet because it was basically done for juju
<s3h> netcf should also be on that list
<s3h> is that accomplished with a tag?
<zul> do we have a server team member on the MIR team?
<SpamapS> no, but it really wouldn't matter. The MIR process is bottlenecked on security
<zul> i mean after the bottleneck
<SpamapS> after the bottleneck there's nothing to do but seed/upload/etc.
<Daviey> zul: we do not.
<zul> SpamapS:  i mean when the bottleneck is done someone the server team can poke and do our bidding
<zul> but anyways
<s3h> care to discuss in open discussion?
<zul> sure
<SpamapS> zul: we don't need to be on the MIR team to do anything after the security review is done.
 * jdstrand looked at the queue and doesn't see security team subscribed to anything
<s3h> arosales: Daviey: do we wannt to o through blueprints at this point?
<jdstrand> (for MIRs)
<SpamapS> zul: once that is done, the bug is approved, and any core dev can go edit the seeds or upload a depending package
<s3h> ruh ro
<jdstrand> SpamapS: what MIR(s) are you referring to?
<arosales> s3h: I think the main points Daviey already discussed
<SpamapS> jdstrand: I'm more discussing the general process and the fact that adding MIR team members would just overload your team more.
<jdstrand> oh
<arosales> ie getting blueprints updated, correct status, and approved
<s3h> arosales: thanks, great
<jdstrand> well, I was promised it wouldn't be like last time ;)
<SpamapS> jdstrand: "Words are wind, Jon Snow"
<jdstrand> heh
<SpamapS> ;)
<s3h> moving on then
<SpamapS> I don't see any big MIR's this cycle
<s3h> thanks SpamapS!
<s3h> #TOPIC Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> SpamapS: i do
<zul> but anyways
<jdstrand> SpamapS, zul: actually, doko and I discussed adding members to the ubuntu-mir team. we think it would be a good idea if someone else wanted to help out (beyond security audits)
<s3h> zul: do you want to discuss that now?
<SpamapS> jdstrand: sure lets discuss that in the open discussion section
 * jdstrand nods
<zul> s3h: no lets continue later
<s3h> ok, any events coming up?
<arosales> m_3 @ gluecon 23-24 of May
<SpamapS> m_3: you still going to gluecon?
<m_3> submitting for the aws/ec2 conference in November
<jimbaker`> i'm at usenix config mgmt summit to discuss juju on june 12
<SpamapS> jimbaker`: cool!
<m_3> SpamapS: they rejected the talks... but they're local so maybe I can get a lightning talk in
<jimbaker`> SpamapS, thanks, this will be my first time presenting juju in public, so fingers crossed ;)
<s3h> cool, thanks
<s3h> #TPIC Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jimbaker`> m_3, lightning talks for gluecon are tonight, so doable
<hggdh> hi
<hggdh> I have been working the last week in Boston, so I have no updates.
<SpamapS> m_3: and no charm school?
<hggdh> But I will answer any questions ;-)
<hggdh> ..
<m_3> SpamapS: nope... hopefully next year... it'd be a good crowd for at least an intro juju talk
<s3h> any questions for hggdh?
<s3h> thanks hggdh.  moving on,
<s3h> #TOPIC Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Hello...
<smb> Trying to understand bug 999755... slowly. Apart from that... other questions?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999755 in linux (Ubuntu) "Kernel crash on EC2 m1.large instances" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999755
<smb> ..
<s3h> smb: you might wnat to test zul's proposed libvirt merge for quantal against xen
<s3h> http://people.canonical.com/chucks/libvirt
<zul> ~chucks/libvirt
<smb> s3h, Yes, I guess I should...
<s3h> yeah that
<s3h> any other questions for smb?  if not...
<s3h> #TOPIC Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> Nothing to report. Work on ARM server continues. Any questions for me?
<s3h> sounds like no, thanks rbasak
<s3h> #TOPIC Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
<SpamapS> jdstrand: so, despite what I thought, the  MIR team actually *could* use a member from the server team?
<jdstrand> SpamapS: yes!
<jdstrand> how it would probably work though is that the server team member would review non-server stuff and the desktop member would review server stuff (to avoid conflict of interest). but that is an implementation detail
<SpamapS> Yeah that sounds like a good idea.
<jdstrand> there is certainly enough work to go around and I feel it would benefit not only the mir team, but all teams trying to pursue MIRs
<SpamapS> arosales: maybe you and Daviey can work out who might be available for such a post?
<s3h> who all would be interested?
<SpamapS> Daviey: ^^
 * SpamapS steps backward
<SpamapS> I have enough :)
<arosales> any volunteers ?
<s3h> ACTION Daviey and arosales to work a list of who is available for MIR team
<jdstrand> (as an aside, we have work items on the security team surrounding improving the audit process as well)
<zul> he/she doesnt need to be core-dev do they?
<s3h> I might be interested.  if i don't have to be cored-ev
<s3h> or be able to speell
<zul> spelling is a must ;)
<zul> so i am out as well
<SpamapS> s3h: you're a server dev, are you not?
<s3h> yes
<jdstrand> well, they all currently are, but technically no because it is up to the filer to adjust the seeds, etc
<SpamapS> s3h: I think that shows enough packaging know-how
<jdstrand> but the person must be able to do pretty thorough packaging reviews. core-dev just happens to demonstrate that
<s3h> let's not focus on me :)  perahps whoeer is interested should email Daviey/arosales
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements should be reviewed by interested people
<s3h> and turn on their spell checker
<s3h> ok, anything actionable here?
<s3h> #ACTION email arosales/Daviey if interested in ubuntu-mir membership
<meetingology> ACTION: email arosales/Daviey if interested in ubuntu-mir membership
<SpamapS> s3h: you forgot the #
<SpamapS> on the first one
<s3h> do you think we need both actions?
<arosales> I also assume a couple of of rounds of MIR can help with core-dev applicaton
<arosales> I am sure the MIR team would welcome help
<rbasak> What is required for membership?
<arosales> able to do pretty thorough packaging reviews
<s3h> ok shall we move on?  any further topics?
<rbasak> Is contributing developer a requirement for example?
<arosales> and knowledgeable about  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<arosales> s3h: one other topic
<arosales> rbasak: jdstrand would know for sure
<SpamapS> rbasak: you're about ready for a server dev application tho.. so I wouldn't worry too much about not having upload rights "today" :)
<arosales> s3h: Everyone comfortable with integrating the blueprint template jamespage emailed out?
<arosales> Also documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BlueprintSpec
<s3h> I followed it with my blueprints and liked it
<jdstrand> well, actually I wouldn't. I kind of inherited my position :) if you are core-dev, I don't think there is any problem. if you aren't, I think the existing team would have to talk to the candidate
<s3h> what do others think?
<arosales> thanks for giving it a try s3h
<jamespage> if anyone needs any help interpreting the template into their blueprints please feel free to ping me
<arosales> or ping in ubuntu-server
<smoser> for reference: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.server/6138
<arosales> be great if server team had some solid blueprint documentation with this template
<s3h> so I personally am backing my bp's in lp +junk.  What are others doing?  Do we set up a team to combine all the blueprints?
<s3h> (as per smoser's suggestion)
<arosales> I think we still need to iron that out and perhaps sync up with Ursinha
<smoser> Ursinha was working on some things to make this better integrated with launchpad.
<arosales> s3h: good point to bring up though
<smoser> ie, to give a comment field and history of work items.
<s3h> Ursinha: do you have any update on that?
<arosales> s3h: you can give me an action to follow up with Ursinha on the best approach for this cycle.
<smoser> the issue with you doing that on your own, s3h is that someone will just edit the whiteboard manually, and then either lose their changes, or not be able to commit to your +junk branch to change it properly
<s3h> and is there anything in that work that would block creating the ubuntu-server-blueprints lp group
<SpamapS> Its worth noting that any branch can be attached to any blueprint..
<s3h> #ACTION arosales to follow up with Ursinha on best approach for blueprint management this cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to follow up with Ursinha on best approach for blueprint management this cycle
<smoser> well, s3h, urshina's proposal would largely mitigate the need for that.
<SpamapS> so if we do an auto-sync thing from branch -> BP we can also link the branch, and make a project, like 'ubuntu-blueprints' to keep them all in
<s3h> smoser: I get emails whenever they do, so I can udpate it in my copy
<SpamapS> this sounds like an implementation discussion tho :-P
<s3h> smoser: sure, but in the meantime we risk losing our whiteboard contents
<Ursinha> there are two things that can be done
<SpamapS> not something for this meeting. :p
<Ursinha> okay :P
<smoser> there she is!
<smoser> good. please discuss, and lets find a solution for this.
<Ursinha> thanks god I have hilight for misspells :P
<arosales> Ursinha: I catch up with you off-line
<Ursinha> sure
<Ursinha> first: using a bot that parses email, and also parses a message in the whiteboard explaining the change
<Ursinha> then the bot removes that and we have a page somewhere else looking like the bug activity pagwe in launchpad
<Ursinha> second approach, is changing launchpad to include blueprint activity
<s3h> Ursinha: thanks
<Ursinha> second one in way cleaner, but it will take a bit of time
<s3h> can you send an email to the m-l after you and arosales discus?
<Ursinha> I'm currently working on it, but don't want to wait for it to finish to start doing something
<Ursinha> sure
<s3h> thanks.  any other topics?
<arosales> thanks for working on that Ursinha
<Ursinha> arosales, it's my pleasure
<jamespage> I've been doing some work on the bug triage workflow
<s3h> ah!
<jamespage> should have something for you all to review this week
<s3h> jamespage: awesome, thanks
<Ursinha> jamespage, awesome :)
<s3h> #TOPIC Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announce next meeting date and time
<s3h> Tuesday May 29 at 1600 UTC.  right here.
<s3h> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 22 16:51:06 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-22-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-22-16.01.html
<arosales> thanks for chair'ing s3h
<roaksoax> \o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 22 17:00:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Precise
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<tgardner> o/
<jsalisbury> #
<herton> o/
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<henrix> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<arges> o/
<sforshee> o.
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/omap4: first omap4 kernel (Ubuntu-3.4.0-200.1) based off 3.4rc7 has been pushed to the repository - some noticeable bits were disabled (omap5 support, sound, sata, dsp, etcetc) but work is geared to enable all the remaining parts.
<cking> o/
<sconklin> o/
<tgardner> ppisati, I uploaded a v3.4 based version a bit ago
<kamal> o/
<ppisati> tgardner: cool
 * ppisati fetch --all
<jsalisbury> ppisati, anything else on the topic of ARM?
<ppisati> nope
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> || apw         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || smb         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || ppisati     || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || jk-         || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> ||             || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 1 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || cking       || hardware-q-kernel-delta-review  || 3 work items  ||
<ogasawara> || jjohansen   || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 2 work item   ||
<ogasawara> || kernel-team || hardware-q-kernel-config-review || 15 work items ||
<ogasawara> If your name is in the above table, please review your Alpha-1 work
<ogasawara> items.  If anyone has a spare cycle, feel free to take one of the work
<ogasawara> items assigned to the team.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We've rebased the Quantal kernel to upstream v3.4 final and uploaded.
<ogasawara> This upload collapses the -virtual flavor, reinstates the i386 generic
<ogasawara> flavor, and transitions the i386 generic-pae flavor to the generic
<ogasawara> flavor.  We've also homogenized the entire linux-meta package and
<ogasawara> removed the non-smp powerpc meta package as it was made obsolete in
<ogasawara> Precise.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Jun 7 - Alpha 1 (~2 weeks)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-05-22 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 85 CVEs on our radar, with 3 new CVEs added this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has increased slightly slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Natty/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (May  22):
<bjf>  
<bjf>  * Hardy    - 2.6.24-31.101 - No change this cycle
<bjf>  * Lucid    - 2.6.32-41.90  - Prep; Single CVE
<bjf>  * Natty    - 2.6.38-15.60  - Prep: 7 CVEs
<bjf>  * Oneiric  - 3.0.0-21.35   - Prep; 2 stable upstream releases (approx. 111 commits)
<bjf>  * Precise  - 3.2.0-25.39   - Prep; 2 stable upstream releases (approx. 271 commits)
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf> Future stable cadence cycles:
<bjf>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 22 17:06:40 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-22-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-22-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-23
<tristenw> morning/afternoon everyone
<balloons> howdy
<balloons> morning everyone..
<balloons> shall we begin?
<balloons> #startmeeting QA community
<meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 14:00:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA community Meeting | Current topic:
<balloons> who all is about on this fine day?
<tristenw>  YO
<skaet> o/
 * gema hides
<balloons> hehe
<balloons> alright, this meeting is mostly going to be about sharing plans and talking about goals for the cycle
<balloons> We have no previous actions, so let's start with ubuntu
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Updates
<balloons> gema, would you care to start off and talk about your team's plans?
<balloons> you don't need to worry about being exhaustive :-0
<gema> hahaha, no worries
<gema> I can summarize it quite neatly: we are going to improve automated testing
<gema> how?
<gema> well, we keep working on UTAH and will start using it in the lab soon
<gema> we've improved the lab and installed a massive openstack, we are calling it QA Stack
<gema> and we will be trying to convey all the test results and new testing we start doing more effectively
<gema> by reporting results to the tracker as well
<gema> we are also going to start having the team meetings on youtube
<gema> just in case people are curious what we are up to
<gema> g+ streaming to youtube
<gema> and I have a suggestion to you nick, we could do the same with this meeting
<gema> EOM
<balloons> gema, thanks for the update.. So where might I get to see your meetings on youtube?
<balloons> will you send a link out to the mailing list?
<gema> balloons: I am talking to IS at the moment to get the whole thing set up
<gema> balloons: I will let you know once it is up, I am not sure how it will look like
<balloons> gotcha. Once you've trialed it out I'm open to ideas on doing the same on this meeting
<gema> ack, will keep you posted
<balloons> right now you would be seeing me and a puppy :-)
<balloons> everyone loves puppies right?
<gema> yes
<tristenw> :)
<balloons> :-)
<gema> the nice thing about it is that people can join the hangout and drop when they finish talking
<gema> and then the 10 people limit doesn't matter
<gema> cos many can watch and whoever needs to talk can join
<balloons> Ok, I guess I will also update before moving onto flavors. Does anyone have questions for gema before I give my speil?
<gema> it's very cool
 * gema goes to hide again
<balloons> no questions? awesome. So on my end, I am still finalizing the last of the blueprints and decisions we made at UDS. I plan to blog once everything is complete. Should be sometime this week
<balloons> However, here's a quick summary, of which I'm happy to take questions
<balloons> I am remaining focused on manual testing this cycle -- and that is going to include iso, sru and application testing.
<balloons> the feedback from UDS was to: improve the process, recognize contributors, avoid burnout
<balloons> The biggest change is that we are going to use the isotracker software to handle running application testcases, sru's and do our testcase management
<balloons> that should make everything easier. I'm going to continue and expand the adopt an iso program to ensure people are not getting burned out by having to do everything by themselves; especially at the increased cadence we would like to see. Also, we're focusing on ensuring our tests our meaningful and avoiding re-work
<balloons> on the community front, I'm organizing a roundtable that we'll plan on doing once (perhaps twice?) a cycle to ensure we as a community (flavors teams, testing teams, etc) are all communicating and participating and helping each other as needed. As we learn best practices and create new tools, this will be an oppurtunity to share
<balloons> we'll also be cleaning up and revitalizing a couple current launchpad teams to ensure membership is current and the folks are active.
<balloons> I think that's hitting most of the high points.. There are other things we will look to accomplish, and I'm always open to ideas, so as ever feel free to contact me
<balloons> any questions for me?
<cesilko> has this membership confirmation been done in the past too?
<balloons> cesilko, what do you mean membership confirmation?
<balloons> you mean with the launchpad team cleanup?
<cesilko> you said that you want to assure that folks are active
<balloons> yes. Many launchpad teams have an expiration policy to ensure teams stay current and relevant
<cesilko> I apologize if this is a dumb question, I am kind of a newbie here :)
<balloons> no no -- great question
<cesilko> okay, thanks for the answer
<tristenw> I am curious as well, I know there was a drawn out discussion in the mail list
<balloons> the idea is once a cycle (or whenever we wish), folks would be asked to click a link to renew membership in the team
<cesilko> makes sense, great
<balloons> people will come and go, and we want to make sure people on the team want to be on the team and are actively participating
<cesilko> exactly, we do it too @ NetBeans
<gema> balloons: just expire us all and wait until we come to you begging ;)
<balloons> Ohh, I should also mention on the recognition front. I want to do a few things. First off, I want to make sure we as a community recognize each other's work. I think we are fairly successful at this. Secondly, I want to provide some swag, enhanced responsibility/opportunity for folks who demonstrate good work. This could mean getting some hardware to help test (if they don't have access to it), etc. Also, I want to clarify and help anyone who is
<balloons>  contributing but is not a ubuntu member know that there QA contributions can be reognized towards membership
<balloons> I myself am applying for membership, so if there are any ubuntu members who can speak for me, I would appreciate comments on my wiki page :-) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/balloons
<balloons> so yea.. LOTS of opportunities this cycle.. I could type and type, but I will move on to flavor updates :-)
<balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA community Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Flavor Updates
<balloons> ok, I know several flavors couldn't make it today
<balloons> so I'll just call each one and see who is here
<balloons> Xubuntu?
<balloons> Kubuntu?
<balloons> Lubuntu?
<ScottK> Hello
<balloons> Hi ScottK :-)
<ScottK> Yesterday we uploaded KDE SC 4.8.3 to precise-proposed.
<ScottK> That'll be a QA focus for us and we'd love to have more testers.
<ScottK> ..
<balloons> ScottK, the best way to get involved with kubuntu qa is to vist the #kubuntu channel yes?
<ScottK> balloons: #kubuntu-devel.
<ScottK> #kubuntu is user support.
<balloons> ahh yes, sorry :-0
<ScottK> We handle QA on the dev channel.
<ScottK> No problem.
<ScottK> It's still building, so don't go try to install it this very minute.
<balloons> Any plans for the cycle surrounding QA? Any changes to testing ideas, iso testing, etc?
<ScottK> I wasn't at UDS, so I'm not sure.
<balloons> one of the things discussed at UDS was testcases for flavors
<balloons> meaning writing the tests with the flavors in mind, and not using the generic ubuntu testcases.. not sure if kubuntu was going to pursue that or not
<ScottK> I've found when doing ISO testing that I can figure out what I should test for Kubuntu based on the Ubuntu test case.
<ScottK> Personally I'd expect it to be more work than it was worth.
<ScottK> (I didn't discuss it with anyone thoug)
<balloons> ScottK, gotcha. Thanks for the update
<ScottK> h
<balloons> don't worry we're not holding you to speaking for all of kubuntu :-0
<balloons> ok, how's about edubuntu?
<ScottK> Maybe adding a footnote or two to the existing Ubuntu test cases would do it.
<ScottK> That'd be a lot less maintenance work, but still help out where people might be confused.
<ScottK> Just a thought.
<balloons> ScottK, well you would be able to clone the existing tests.. Something to talk about and think about over the cycle
<ScottK> Right, but once it's cloned, then if the Ubuntu test gets updated, someone has to import the change into the Kubuntu test case.
<balloons> yep,
<ScottK> That's the maintenance burden that worries me.
<ScottK> It'd be way smoother if we could do it without having to fork the test case.
<gema> balloons: maybe we could tag test cases as to which flavours they apply
<balloons> yes, it's something you will have to maintain
<gema> balloons: that way the flavors that can actually use the test cases as is do not need to worry about the maintenance burden
<gema> not me, the community
<gema> we are talking manual testing, right?
<balloons> gema, I'm not sure what you mean persay.. as of right now you get a link
<balloons> you mean the testcase can apply to multiple flavors?
<balloons> it's that way now
<gema> now it is like that because it happens to be
<gema> we could make it explicit, and therefore manageable
<gema> we could tag the test cases as applicable to ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu studio , for instance
<gema> and that test case will be one to take into account for those flavors in particular
<gema> balloons: this is a burden on stgraber, because it is more implementation
<gema> that's all
<balloons> can you remember and bring it up next week when meeting with stgraber ?
<gema> yes
<balloons> thanks
<balloons> ok, finally let's try and see if ubuntu studio has anyone about?
<balloons> and then we can close out this topic
<balloons> ok, great.
<balloons> moving on
<balloons> [TOPIC] Other topcis
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | QA community Meeting | Current topic:  Other topcis
<balloons> my fat fingers.. :-)
<balloons> basically, this is open to anything anyone wishes to discuss.. let me know and the floor is yours.
<tristenw> !
<balloons> yes tristenw go ahead
<tristenw> I'm looking to switch from a testing perspective to coding, I just need someone to mentor me a little
<tristenw> have python background already
<balloons> tristenw, hehe.. do you like web programming and/or have messed with django?
<tristenw> haven't no
<balloons> If so, there's oppurtunities to help develop tools we as a QA community use
<skaet> o/
<tristenw> could learn I guess though
<balloons> If your focusing on wanting to learn desktop apps, I can put you in touch with some folks on that end as well
<tristenw> that would be superb, and I'll start working on django too
<balloons> tristenw, send me an email afterwards and I'll get you hooked up
<tristenw> k
<balloons> yes skaet , go ahead
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<balloons> and thank you tristenw :-)
<tristenw> yw
<skaet> draft is getting pretty close to finalized now.
<balloons> skaet, ahh yes.. good point to mention
<skaet> if anyone has concerns about it,   email to ubuntu-release maillist.   :)
<balloons> So if everyone has a look, you'll notice we have a column on that schedule
<skaet> balloons,  actually thats:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock  :)
<balloons> ohh.. you didn't send the big sheet link
<skaet> I just pasted the master schedule first.    Now you've got the link to the "big one"  :)
<balloons> skaet, thanks
<balloons> so yes, please have a look. As a community, we're looking to perform the tasks and work in that community testing column
 * skaet nods
<balloons> basically we want to help ensure things are smooth before milestones, and before isotesting events. We want a lighter workload, with more people testing.. but there is more being asked of us this cycle
<balloons> ok, anything else?
<balloons> any questions or comments on the schedule? I'll open a thread on the ml about it also so everyone gets a chance to see it
<balloons> if not, thanks for coming out everyone and we're done! :-)
<skaet> thanks!  :)
<tristenw> bye :)
<balloons> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 14:53:21 2012 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-14.00.moin.txt
<meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-14.00.html
<cesilko> I have one more question if I can but it's not schedule related.
<balloons> cesilko, sure
<cesilko> Does Ubuntu have purely date driven releases or is there a minimal release criteria that must be satisfied before new version is shipped?
<cesilko> Imagine that a day prior the planned release a true showstopper is found. What happens then?
<cesilko> Is there a Wiki describing that?
<cesilko> I didn't find one. :|
<balloons> cesilko, there is release criteria indeed
<balloons> the release team is the best folks to ask for more information about that
<balloons> joining #ubuntu-release is probably not a bad place to ask.. I hope :-)
<balloons> but let me find you some wiki pages
<cesilko> okay, I will turn to #ubuntu-release then
 * slangasek waves
 * stgraber waves
 * ogra_ moos
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 15:02:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox)
<slangasek> barry jodh infinity xnox ev cjwatson bdmurray ogra slangasek stgraber doko
 * barry wins!
<barry> syncs: twisted, python-testtools, python-defer, subunit, dbus-python. reviewed py3 branch for testresource.  started working on bug 1000801 (lazr.restfulclient port). started porting wsgi-intercept. reviewed glatzor's py3 branch for software-properties.  patch pilot: reviewed xnox's python-couchdb merge, bkerensa's fix for bug 962974, takluyver's py3 python-tz branch (merged & uploaded), bug 1002861 (sync'd canto). dmb meeting.  todo:
<barry> return to porting the lazr.restfulclient stack.  done.
<slangasek> er, wait
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000801 in lazr.restfulclient "Add support for Python 3" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000801
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962974 in landscape-client (Ubuntu) ""Management Service" is gratuitously vague" [Low,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962974
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1002861 in canto (Debian) "Sync canto 0.7.10-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1002861
<slangasek> stokachu: are you here?
<barry> too late :)
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> jodh bdmurray ev xnox stgraber doko ogra infinity stokachu barry slangasek cjwatson
<slangasek> new order ;)
 * barry loses
<slangasek> barry: you'll just have to go twice ;)
<jodh> * [misc/planning]: fleshed out work items (and sizings) for 7 blueprints.
<jodh> * [boot/upstart]:
<jodh>   - wrote spec for stateful re-exec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/QuantalUpstartStatefulReexec)
<jodh>   - evaluated a number of JSON libraries.
<jodh>   - wrote a basic JSON test prog to validate a fragment of the expected
<jodh>     JSON schema.
<jodh>   - started work on stateful re-exec.
<jodh>   - NIH blog post.
<jodh>   - drafted an Upstart blog post on logging.
<jodh> ã
 * infinity wakes up.
<bdmurray> modified apport to set importance of python tracebacks to Medium
<bdmurray> modified apport to carry over release tags from duplicates to the master bug
<bdmurray> wrote and ran launchpadlib code to copy tags over from duplicate apport-crash bug reports
<bdmurray> apport branch to block 'not a debian format' archive bug reporting
<bdmurray> put checks for corrupt packages for package install failures in apport instead of having apt check
<bdmurray> update-manager merge for the fix to bug 999890
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 999890 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "does not block follow up errors from earlier reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999890
<barry> slangasek: oh, i get it: new order <- joy division <- warsaw
<bdmurray> wrote lplib code to delete update-manager clone attachments due to security issue
<bdmurray> modified bug bot to remove bad attachments from update-manager reported bugs
<slangasek> hah
<bdmurray> modified bug bot to write to a log file for easier auditing of work done
<bdmurray> modified search-bugs in bugpatterns to show count of duplicates for the master bug
<bdmurray> modified lp-grab-attachments to have a --descriptions option
<bdmurray> updating firefox-lp-improvements with the new version of lp_work_item_editor
<bdmurray> arsenal branch to create a report of bug task with the most duplicates
<mvo> \o/
<bdmurray> wrote a bugpattern for ubiquity bug 998492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 998492 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Fails to detect package download errors on architectures other than amd64" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998492
<bdmurray> added a11y opportunity to harvest-data
<bdmurray> moved harvest opportunity creation scripts from ubuntu-qa-tools to harvest-data
<bdmurray> review of package install failures due to /etc/default/grub modifications gone bad
<bdmurray> doneâ¼
<infinity> bdmurray: That seemed out of order. :P
<infinity> - worked on organising and tidying specs
<infinity> - spent a lot of time looking into armel/armhf toolchain woes
<infinity> - spent even more time looking into nscd/netgroups bugs
<infinity> ...
<infinity> ^-- Remarkably short this week.
<bdmurray> infinity: I was following the new order
<xnox> infinity: you are out of order =)
<infinity> bdmurray: Oh, I completely missed the new new order.
<ogra_> infinity, i added a WI for you to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-drop-preinst-images
<ogra_> (just for tracking purposes)
 * infinity isn't all here today.
 * xnox looks for ev
<ogra_> xnox, just move :)
<slangasek> ev:
<xnox> software-raid:
<xnox> * collaborating with kees on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReliableRaid/History
<xnox> * already from above, prepared some udev fixes for mdadm bug 957494 bug 968074 bug 1002357, pending sponsorship
<xnox> * establishing access to bare metal machines in the QA lab
<xnox> * ordered external quad HDD housing for RAID testing, being shipped from china
<xnox> * next step to establish RAID Architecture Specification
<xnox> ubiquity-lvm-luks:
<xnox> * added workitems to the blueprint
<xnox> * discussing requirements/roadmap/first steps with stakeholders
<xnox> * next step to start building/modifying ubiquity
<xnox> python-versions:
<xnox> * tracker deployed at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/onlypy3oncd.html
<xnox> * next step finish up local py3 branch for apparmor
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 957494 in mdadm (Ubuntu Precise) "Missing added utility 'mdmon'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957494
<xnox> bug 968074
<barry> xnox: thanks for the tracker!
<xnox> bug 1002357
<jdstrand> xnox: you are doing the python3 porting for apparmor?
<slangasek> ev: you're not here
<slangasek> xnox:
<xnox> jdstrand: well, i did a little work (there isn't much tbh) spotted a few things that were not bi-lingual
<xnox> py2/py3
<xnox> jdstrand: are you doing it as well?
<jdstrand> xnox: ok, feel free to takl to me after the meeting
<xnox> ok
<jdstrand> xnox: we have work items for it, yes
<slangasek> xnox: did you give up on getting access to the lab machines for HD testing, then?
<jdstrand> xnox: I might also mention that ufw is actively being ported
<barry> jdstrand: nice
 * jdstrand has a work item for that
<xnox> slangasek: I got VPN today, but don't have access to any machines behind the VPN yet. I still one both. Lab for automatic, local for troubleshooting/personal dogfooding
<slangasek> xnox: ok
<xnox> s/one/want/
<slangasek> stgraber:
<stgraber> Short week, was off on Monday:
<stgraber> - Networking
<stgraber>  - Spent some time testing candidates SRU for an IPv6 bug in Network Manager
<stgraber> - SRU
<stgraber>  - Verification testing of nagios-nrpe and lxc
<stgraber>  - Started preparing the next lxc SRU
<stgraber> - Containers
<stgraber>  - Reworked the lxc-ubuntu template to be much easier to maintain
<slangasek> (then no doko, so ogra_ next)
<stgraber>  - Worked with Serge on API design for liblxc, worked on the initial structure of the python binding
<stgraber>  - Fixed some races in lxc-start-ephemeral, made it consistently call sudo and dropped the separate
<stgraber>    and complex lxc-ip for a simple call to the new "ip netns" instead
<stgraber> - ISO tracker
<stgraber>  - Continued the work to get qa-q-isotracker-testcases implemented, all of the backend work is done
<stgraber>    and most of the frontend work nears completion, there's some admin UI work left and API update
<stgraber>  - Migration code works fine, result can be seen at http://iso.qa.dev.stgraber.org
<stgraber>    If you don't see anything, that's fine, the idea was not to loose any history data and have the new cool
<stgraber>    stuff show up only for the new products.
<stgraber> - Other
<stgraber>  - Drafted and sent all my specs for review
<stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Friday
<stgraber> - TODO this week
<stgraber>  - Push an LXC SRU, cherry-picking the important fixes from the recent quantal uploads
<stgraber>  - Get enough of the ISO tracker work done so that QA can test it and work on smaller changes
<stgraber> (DONE)
<ogra_> phew
<ogra_> done:
<ogra_> * ascension day on thu.
<ogra_> * filled WIs on foundations-q-embedded-rootfs, foundations-q-hwpack-integration and added two items to foundations-q-drop-preinst-images
<ogra_>   (for tracking purpose only)
<ogra_> * finally MoM is back, worked on merges
<ogra_> * started looking into the gcc-4.7 FTBFS list on debian (on request from doko)
<ogra_> todo:
<ogra_> * more merges
<ogra_> * more FTBFS
<ogra_> * start looking into the armhf image situation in preparation for A1
<ogra_> (fells so small to go after stgraber)
<ogra_> ..
<stgraber> ogra_: you're just better at summarizing it ;)
<ogra_> haha
<slangasek> stokachu: here?
<slangasek> stokachu: no worries if not
 * xnox the new new order is broken, we need an SRU
<infinity> Yeah, I have to figure out how to expand more too. :P
<slangasek> looks like that makes it my turn
<infinity> Or just mention every single AA, SRU, etc task.
<ogra_> lets hire a ghostwriter ;)
<slangasek>  * fixing up update-notifier SRU, apparently our translators are too efficient and translate things that shouldn't be (bug #1003100)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003100 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Quantal) "package-data-downloader: KeyError: 'paquetes'" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003100
<slangasek>  * pushed a bug report to plymouth in Debian, requesting a backport for an API mountall needs
<slangasek>  * mountall bug triage in preparation for uploading to Debian
<slangasek> * SRU processing generally
<slangasek>  * sponsored sudo merge, and uploaded pkexec (bug #982684)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 982684 in sudo (Ubuntu Quantal) "sudo, pkexec don't apply global environment settings from /etc/environment" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/982684
<slangasek>  * ia32-libs SRU for bug #1000541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1000541 in ia32-libs (Ubuntu Quantal) "ia32-libs-multiarch depends on gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3, causing problems when installing packages from partner" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1000541
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<slangasek>  * getting things organized for DebConf
<slangasek> (done)
<cjwatson> Uploaded ubiquity Python 3 port.  Fixed some resulting breakage (decoding Unicode at wrong point).
<cjwatson> Landed per-packageset build scoring.
<cjwatson> Started work on allowing per-pocket archive permissions.
<cjwatson> Verified dh-make SRU.
<cjwatson> Uploaded ubuntu-keyring with new archive and cdimage signing keys.  Needs SRUs.
<cjwatson> Resurrected merges.ubuntu.com, with help from IS.
<cjwatson> Lots of merges.
<cjwatson> Fixed stale files being left behind in ftpmaster's germinate output directory.
<cjwatson> Arranged for buildd admins to be able to adjust per-archive build scoring (pending deployment).
<cjwatson> Moved Ubuntu-specific publishing hooks out of Launchpad, in preparation for upgrading them to use the new archive signing key for >=quantal.
<cjwatson> Made a couple of live-installer improvements requested by the server team.
<cjwatson> Various adjustments to cope with recent kernel flavour renamings.
<cjwatson> Removed "Essential: yes" from python-minimal.
<cjwatson> Merged xdeb staged-bootstrap patch.
<cjwatson> Opened main vs. universe discussion with kubuntu-devel (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-May/006080.html).
<cjwatson> Gave Daviey some basic archive admin training.
<cjwatson> â
<ogra_> is that a coffepot or something else that generates steam ?
<cjwatson> U+2615 HOT BEVERAGE
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> so not what my initial thought was then :)
 * xnox ogra_: there is scribe team for ghostwritting ;-) hot beverage! I want an iced tea ;-)
<cjwatson> infinity: FYI the per-archive scoring will basically be:
<cjwatson> archive = whatever
<cjwatson> archive.relative_build_score  # fetch attribute to work around bug 662740
<infinity> cjwatson: I was actually more interested in the bullet point about finally dropping python-minimal out of Essential. \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662740 in lazr.restfulclient "Setting an attribute on a shim object without first reading an attribute causes a crash" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/662740
<cjwatson> archive.relative_build_score = whatever
<cjwatson> archive.lp_save()
<cjwatson> infinity: it's still in prio required though ;)
<infinity> Oh.
<infinity> Less excited.
<slangasek> ogra_: pile of poo is a different unicode character
<cjwatson> Though I guess dpkg won't complain if you remove it.
<ogra_> slangasek, heh, yeah, but its small enough to misread it in my xchat :)
<slangasek> bug #820034
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 820034 in Ubuntu Font Family "Expansion: Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs U+1F4A9" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820034
<slangasek> any more questions about any of the above?
<ogra_> *grin*
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
 * ogra_ likes the elegant aspect in that bug :) 
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything showing up yet to worry about for 12.10?
<bdmurray> slangasek: no not yet
<slangasek> there are a few bugs jibel's been escalating to us based on the auto-tests... I need to pin down this debootstrap one today
<cjwatson> I'm about to look at bug 1003443
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003443 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Quantal) "Ubuntu Quantal Desktop 21120523 failed to install" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003443
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> May be an HD fault as the error suggests, but might as well check
<slangasek> right
<cjwatson> And I'm just fixing bug 1003440 now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1003440 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu Quantal) "Unicode characters in language list" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003440
<slangasek> the debootstrap bug is bug #1001460
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001460 in sysvinit (Ubuntu Quantal) "preinst fails in d-i" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001460
<slangasek> which I still have no idea how that's happening :P
<cjwatson> Have you had a chance to compare against a /var/log/bootstrap.log for precise?
<slangasek> (hints accepted, if someone knows)
<slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, no, good idea
<cjwatson> The one I have to hand shows makedev successfully running insserv, so not just the set +e => -e thing I pointed out
<cjwatson> But that dates from 2011-12-20
<cjwatson> Aha
<slangasek> successfully *running* insserv?
<cjwatson> Here's one from 2012-03-20:
<cjwatson> Selecting previously unselected package makedev.
<cjwatson> Unpacking makedev (from .../makedev_2.3.1-89ubuntu2_all.deb) ...
<cjwatson> update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
<cjwatson> Can't exec "insserv": No such file or directory at /usr/sbin/update-rc.d line 402.
<cjwatson> update-rc.d: error: insserv rejected the script header
<slangasek> hmm
<cjwatson> So this was happening in precise too and it's just the -e change
<slangasek> ah
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<ogra_> didnt stokachu fix that in latest insserv
<cjwatson> There's proximate cause for you, not so much with the root cause
<slangasek> I'll fix sysvinit then :)
<slangasek> ogra_: what he fixed was to make insserv disappear from the path because third-parties mistook it for an interface
<ogra_> ah
 * ogra_ just remembered something update-rc.d from precise 
<ogra_> +related
<slangasek> so anyway, yeah, I should be able to work it out from there - thanks cjwatson
<infinity> Robbie seems to have some valid points on the bug ~6h ago.
<infinity> Robie, even.  Silly people and their lack of Bs.
<slangasek> bdmurray: anything on the 12.04.1 front?
<slangasek> stgraber: or anything you know about for 12.04.1 that you need help with?
<cjwatson> There are a lot of these kinds of loops in the base system
<bdmurray> slangasek: not much their either yet
<cjwatson> But yeah, possibly
<stgraber> slangasek: not at this time. I've been looking at the pending SRUs, trying to get them through quickly, but most of my time is currently going on trying to have the iso tracker work done ASAP
<stgraber> (so I can then focus more on 12.04.1)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> (I guess that includes the "iso" tracker work that gives us a framework for SRU verifications?)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Blueprints
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Blueprints
<slangasek> not much to say on my side... but figured I'd bring up the topic in case anyone has concerns to discuss
<slangasek> hopefully the drafting is all done by now
<slangasek> (anyone not done with drafting?)
<stgraber> slangasek: yeah
<stgraber> slangasek: (that yeah applies to the part about framework for SRU verification)
 * slangasek nods
<xnox> hardware-notifications needs drafting still on my side.
 * xnox sorry.
<ogra_> depends where you draw the line
<ogra_> i still need pretty wikipages
<ogra_> Wis are there
<slangasek> xnox: 'sok
<jodh> I've drafted the work items, but some can't be broken down into <= 2 day chunks without spending quite some time on the design and I'm not even sure we're planning to do some of them, so...
<slangasek> ogra_: WIs are a good start, as that gives us pretty graphs :)
<ogra_> :)
<cjwatson> with the exception of the server installer bits, I think I'm pretty much done
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> sounds like we're in pretty good shape overall then
<slangasek> jodh: that's still ok for this point in the cycle, don't worry about it - and yes, we'll drill down into the question of which ones to do
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<jodh> slangasek: ok, thanks!
<slangasek> Anything else to discuss?
<bdmurray> I'm out next monday
<barry> next monday is a usa holiday
<slangasek> yep
<jodh> should we discuss the "on hold" music for next time? ;)
<ogra_> arent most of us ?
<slangasek> so I'm out too next Monday
<ogra_> german holiday too
<slangasek> !
<slangasek> why does Germany get TWO holidays in May
<infinity> I'm in Hong Kong next week.
<slangasek> so not fair
<ogra_> slangasek, merkel
<slangasek> haha
 * xnox uk has Queens jubilee the week after a believe or something
 * barry fondly remembers mlk day and presidents day :)
<slangasek> barry: I remember them being in a crappy season ;)
<barry> :-D
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 15:40:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.html
<slangasek> ok, thanks everyone!
<ogra_> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<stgraber> thanks!
<jodh> thanks!
<xnox> How is this useful? http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.html
<xnox> ok it has links to topics
<ogra_> and would list the actions if we would use that part
<slangasek> xnox: heh, that's more useful than it used to be IMHO
<slangasek> it used to just be a copy of the log :)
<xnox> can we start 'sub-topics' of the lighting round? =)
<xnox> per-person.
<xnox> anyway thank you everyone =)
 * xnox 0/
<ogra_> xnox, you could just read the ubunut-release ML ... that gets a summray of every team on fridays
<ogra_> *summary
 * MrChrisDruif wonders if the Lubuntu team will have their meeting tonight
<jmarsden|work> #startmeeting
<meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 20:00:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jmarsden|work> Let's see who is here :)
<kanliot> hi
<will_> hi
 * MrChrisDruif lurks
<jmarsden|work> OK, this may be a short meeting...
<jmarsden|work> #topic Review of Action Items from Last Meeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review of Action Items from Last Meeting
<jmarsden|work> Prevous meeting is logged at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20120516
<jmarsden|work> StevenSmallty is not here, so we don't know status of his action items.
<kanliot> ok
<jmarsden|work> I failed to email the list about wiki champion volunteers, I think, but kanliot volunteered.
<kanliot> it's not smalty
<jmarsden|work> Right, typo :)
<jmarsden|work> *StevenSmally
<jmarsden|work> So, kanliot, are you willing and able to coordinate wiki changes from now onwards?
<kanliot> yeah
<kanliot> sorry for short answer
<jmarsden|work> OK.  I don't think we have enough people here for a very "convincing" vote, if you see what I mean, but I propose that we give you that role.  Is there any info or specific things you need from MrChrisDruif to take over this responsibility?
<kanliot> can't think of anything
<kanliot> besides chris has been very helpful
<jmarsden|work> OK, good -- feel free to get to work :)
<kanliot> not like i have to twist his arm or anything
<jmarsden|work> Understood.
<MrChrisDruif> I remain a member of the docs team, so any questions on how to change this or if needs be removing/redirecting can still be asked
<MrChrisDruif> this=things
<jmarsden|work> Good, thanks MrChrisDruif -- it is always helpful to have smooth friendly transfers of responsibilities
<MrChrisDruif> o7
* jmarsden|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business
<jmarsden|work> we've had some governance discussion recently but we are not ready for any specific proposals at this point, as I understand it.
<kanliot> ya
<jmarsden|work> OK... any other items we should be discussing here?
<jmarsden|work> OK... none heard.  Don't forget to look at the blueprint for our work towards 12.10 and see how you can help move any of those work items forward.
<jmarsden|work> Thanks all!
<kanliot> ty
<jmarsden|work> #endmeeting
* meetingology` changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 20:11:11 2012 UTC.
<meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-20.00.moin.txt
<meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-20.00.html
<will_> That was fast :)
<kanliot> yeah maybe i should have reported more
<kanliot> lol
<jmarsden|work> will_: Indeed, may be a new record for the shortest Lubuntu meeting :)
<Unit193> Sorry I missed a good deal of it. :/
<s-fox> Hey cariboo907 :-)
<cariboo907> good day s-fox
<s-fox> How ate
<s-fox> How are you cariboo907 ?
<cariboo907> good, I just finished putting up a gazebo on the deck :)
<s-fox> I just got back cariboo907 , just pocked a nice packet against my former pool team >:)
<s-fox> Here bodhi_zazen , cariboo907  nothingspecial and co
<bodhi_zazen> =)
<cariboo907> what app are you using for irc on your tablet s-fox ?
<s-fox> i switched from iPhone to mac cariboo907
<s-fox> i am using colloquy
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone here for the FC meeting ?
<nothingspecial> o/
<Iowan> o/
<coffeecat> o/
<moergaes> o/
<sandyd> me here for my memership
<quackers> o/
<CharlesA> o/
<cariboo907> o/
<bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 23 23:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bodhi_zazen> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
<bodhi_zazen> Light schedule this month ;)
<s-fox> yay
<Iowan> +1
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] ARchiving Forums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARchiving Forums
<s-fox> thanks again bodhi_zazen for chairing this meeting
<bodhi_zazen> Did we ever come up with a policy for this ?
<s-fox> o/
<cariboo907> I think we are still discussing it, some are for it  and some are against
<bodhi_zazen> do we want to discuss this and determine if we can come to a consensus ?
<s-fox> Does anyone object to archiving seriously old posts?
<CharlesA> Not I.
<s-fox> very black and white, but just to punt it out there
<cariboo907> nope, I thought we decide on two year old threads, but I may be wrong
<bodhi_zazen> No, I think we should archive posts / threads which have become inactive for what __ months ?
<bodhi_zazen> 6-12 ?
<CharlesA> +1
<Iowan> Someone will object - but that someone is not me...
<CharlesA> 12 months seems reasonable imho
<s-fox> i would like to cover lts bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> In the +1 forum they expect it every 6 months :)
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<CharlesA> heheh
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<CharlesA> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from CharlesA
<s-fox> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> LTS is not static though s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Iowan> +0
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  how many fc members are here?
<Iowan> o/
<coffeecat> o/
<s-fox> o/
<bodhi_zazen> o/
<cariboo907> o/
<s-fox> 5 ?
<CharlesA> Oopsie
<s-fox> okay :) just checking
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on archiving ?
<s-fox> can you elaborate on lts bodhi_zazen ?
<s-fox> i don't mind the 12 moths, but stuff relevant for lts should not be archived
<bodhi_zazen> Well, even though LTS is supported for longer, some things get fixed
<cariboo907> 12.04 is supported for 5 years
<nothingspecial> I'm with s-fox on this one
<bodhi_zazen> So it seems reasonable to have the same policy - If a thread is inactive -> archive
<bodhi_zazen> it is still readable
<s-fox> forgive me but what is "inactive" ?
<bodhi_zazen> And after a year, who knows if it is still a problem or not
<cariboo907> +1 for even an LTS thread being archived if inactive
<bodhi_zazen> Inactive means no new posts
<s-fox> a black and white answer would be great
<s-fox> from when to when ?
<cariboo907> no posts for 6 months?
<s-fox> 6 , 12, 18 months/
<s-fox> ?
<bodhi_zazen> From now (time of searcing data base ) - 12 months
<s-fox> i do not mind guidelines, providing they are clear :)
<bodhi_zazen> 12 seems to be the consensus
<cariboo907> +1 for 12
<s-fox> is the fc happy with 12?
<s-fox> +1
<bodhi_zazen> So every 6 months we archive threads with no posts for the last 12 months
<Iowan> 12 months from first post - or last?
<bodhi_zazen> last
<Iowan> should help w/ necromancy...
<bodhi_zazen> So a thread that was last posted on 8 months ago would not be archived now, but probably will be 6 months from now
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  suggest we move on ;)
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New theme
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New theme
<s-fox> yay technoviking
<bodhi_zazen> Technoviking has been working hard on the new theme
<CharlesA> \o/
<nothingspecial> +1
<cariboo907> +1 to yay TV
 * Iowan likes
<coffeecat> +1
<bodhi_zazen> It is still in development, so send suggestions to
 * s-fox is okay with it since font fix for non ubuntu users
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1981875
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on theme ?
<CharlesA> It still looks odd on an XP box with no Ubuntu font installed, but it looks ok.
<CharlesA> IMHO at least
 * bodhi_zazen would still like a dark theme
<CharlesA> SAme bodhi_zazen
<s-fox> i know i played devils advocate, but felt i had to. so sorry if tv felt frustrated by lack of perceived support. i tried to be contructive with irc chats with him
<bodhi_zazen> It is a big chunk of code and AFIK too many cooks ...
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  +1
<CharlesA> yep, unfortunately
<s-fox> to dark theme
<Iowan> i's evolving nicely
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1977732
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Wiki team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Wiki team
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone here from the wiki team ?
<wildmanne39> o/
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11959014&postcount=49
<bodhi_zazen> I just wanted to thank all the members of the wiki team, it is a great working group
<bodhi_zazen> #ubuntu-wiki is now logged
<s-fox> shame hobgoblin is not here , he has been working really hard at making it work
<nothingspecial> +1 thanks elfy
<wildmanne39> nice
<bodhi_zazen> And we will start with askubuntu once the team gets any additional kinks worked out
<s-fox> +1
<bodhi_zazen> Any other comments for wiki team ?
<cariboo907> the only complaint I have, is that bodhi_zazen 's script doesn't work well on heavily formatted posts
<nothingspecial> Please people join
<s-fox> +0 askubuntu, that sayd i gave support in previous months but not really got involved ;)
<nothingspecial> it is a n easy way to start contributing to Ubuntu
<bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: anything in particular that can be scripted ?
<bodhi_zazen> let me know
<s-fox> cariboo907:  perhaps the script could be refined ?
<cariboo907> I'll look at it again, but this was a special case I think.
<bodhi_zazen> but yes, some of the posts on the forums are works of art, and as they are not all uniform, outliers are not going to script
<bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt
<cariboo907> is that the same as last week, as I have a copy here?
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  while i remember, i have a small item that is not on the agenda atm. i would like to get some consensus from my fellow council members
<bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: you can always PM me a link and I will look at it
<bodhi_zazen> no changes in last week cariboo907
<bodhi_zazen> what topic s-fox ?
<s-fox> i also have general message to the forum community which i would like to relay
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  spam bans on automated welcome email
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]General Message
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: General Message
<s-fox> may i speak bodhi_zazen ?
<bodhi_zazen> yes, please s-fox
<s-fox> I would just like to publicaly thank everyone for their support in my application for a seat on the ubuntu membership board, it was really touching to see everyone commenting positive things
<s-fox> </end>
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<nothingspecial> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> When is the board going to be selected ?
 * JonEdney claps
<moergaes> Most der
<s-fox> i thought i might get 3 or 4 +1's. i am at over 20
<moergaes> deserved
<s-fox> it has been incredible
<s-fox> hey moergaes  :)
<sandyd> good job :)
<moergaes> s-fox: Hey!
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Staff
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New Staff
<bodhi_zazen> I have to apologize for this, I know we talked about it ...
<s-fox> +1 on adding, but tz specific. i don't think we are suffering in europe or usa. i think asia / oz needs more on board
<bodhi_zazen> but I sort of got cold feet, I am not sure we have enough UFMembers yet for an election process
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i have some good candidates, but none are uf members
<bodhi_zazen> So I am going to suggest we add 2 or 3 now, and look at 12.10 release for possible electiosn
<s-fox> bureaucracy appears to be winning
<s-fox> which i am not for
<bodhi_zazen> We can discuss candidates later
<s-fox> hey overdrank  :)
<bodhi_zazen> 'lo overdrank =)
<Iowan> o/
<overdrank> Sorry I am late and hey s-fox
<JonEdney> question!
<bodhi_zazen> Is it on topic JonEdney ?
<bodhi_zazen> then ask
<bodhi_zazen> Otherwise wait for open floor
<JonEdney> Thank you.  Is there a link or any reading on what you are expecting from a staff member?  I'm interested.
<s-fox> JonEdney:  you mean a criteria ?
<bodhi_zazen> Good point, but no we do not have one
<JonEdney> Yes.
<bodhi_zazen> Generally they have to have thick skin, it is all fun and games until the trolling starts, and staff have big targets painted on their avatars
<JonEdney> Okay, no worries.  I will help where I can, and go from there in the future.
<bodhi_zazen> They have to be Ubuntu Forums Members
<bodhi_zazen> So that sort of covers the kind / helpful / active on the forums part
<s-fox> JonEdney:  i personally would expect a level of maturity , an active account on the forums and of course established forums community member
<s-fox> but that is just me and may not reflect the entire fc
<JonEdney> Of course.  Thank you for the information. :)  Carry on.
<bodhi_zazen> personally , at least aware of IRC helps
<bodhi_zazen> again, not necessarily reflective of entire FC
<bodhi_zazen> What do you want to do next ?
<bodhi_zazen> New members or open floor ?
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  how about the dev sub forum ?
<s-fox> mhall119:  are you around  ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Application development forum
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Application development forum
<s-fox> i relayed some of the staff concerns on the topiic, mhall119  was going to provide answers :)
<s-fox> heard nothing since
<overdrank> I did not see this on the agenda so I am lost
<bodhi_zazen> OK, well if mhall119 comes in later we can probably take action, otherwise a reminder e-mail ?
<s-fox> +1 email reminder
<bodhi_zazen> overdrank: nope, did not get added to agenda
<s-fox> overdrank:  i posted in the scc thread about my actions
<bodhi_zazen> OK, so new members or open floor ?
<Iowan> members
<cariboo907> new members I would think
<overdrank> Ok s-fox will search :)
<s-fox> +1 new members :)
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New Members
<s-fox> overdrank:  i will relay a link if you like
<overdrank> Its ok I will find :)
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=404
<bodhi_zazen> roffiscoder you here ?
<s-fox> +1 to all except the one we discussed ;\0
<bodhi_zazen> roffisserver does not meet criteria, not active on the forums long enough
<s-fox> +1 bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> do we want to vote on that , ir just take action ?
<s-fox> i thought member had been pm'd
<coffeecat> Yes - my pm exchange: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1976954
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
<meetingology> Please vote on: roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> That's what I thought too
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<Iowan> 1
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<Iowan> +1
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<s-fox> boom :)
<bodhi_zazen> Primefalcon you here ?
<s-fox> guess not
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak for Primefalcon ?
<s-fox> i kept out of the discussion thread, as per my obligation as a fc member and having a valid vote
<s-fox> but generally i am +1
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Primefalcon for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: Primefalcon for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bodhi_zazen> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from bodhi_zazen
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> 0
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> 0 received from cariboo907
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<coffeecat> 0
<meetingology> 0 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox>   hmm, lots of neutrals
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Primefalcon for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> that surely is a tie
<bodhi_zazen> you have to -1 to tie
<coffeecat> s-fox, no. An abstention is an abstention.
<s-fox> :)
<bodhi_zazen> 0 and +1 carries vote
<bodhi_zazen> hakermania here ?
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak for hakermania ?
<s-fox> guess not
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]hakermania for membership ?
<s-fox> vote bodhi_zazen  ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: hakermania for membership ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from bodhi_zazen
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<cariboo907> 0
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<meetingology> 0 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: hakermania for membership ?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bodhi_zazen> OK, and sandyd could not make it
<bodhi_zazen> sandyd: ping - sorry for the "dad joke" there
<cariboo907> I thought I saw her log on earlier
<sandyd> here
<Iowan> WAS here!
<s-fox> hello sandyd  :)
<sandyd> s-fox: hi :)
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to say a few words in support of sandyd ?
<s-fox> does +1 count? ;)
<Iowan> Is it necessasry? :)
<bodhi_zazen> LOL
<bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] sandyd for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: sandyd for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nothingspecial> goes without saying
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<bodhi_zazen> no, but it is sort of nice if they show up
<s-fox> +1 yes, no doubt
<meetingology> +1 yes, no doubt received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<bodhi_zazen> +1
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> can I vote twice?
<overdrank> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
<bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
<meetingology> Voting ended on: sandyd for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sandyd> THANKS! :)
<matt_symes> Congrats sandyd
<cariboo907> congrats sandyd
<overdrank> Congrats sandyd
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Division of labor
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Division of labor
<bodhi_zazen> congrats sandyd
<cariboo907> who did what last month?
<s-fox> i have an item
<overdrank> Is spam banning enough labor
<bodhi_zazen> OK anyone want to volunteer for stuff this month ?
<s-fox> ^ bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: I have not been tracking, lol
<s-fox> i could do with advice from fc, re: spam ban on welcome email
<coffeecat> I'll volunteer for ML. About time I learnt the ropes.
<Iowan> What needs vollunteered (that I can't mess up?) :)
<cariboo907> I'll do the welcome message, if s-fox doesn't want to
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox: can it wait for open floor ?
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  sure, but providing not forgotten :)
<bodhi_zazen> I am looking for my list, lol
<bodhi_zazen> 1. Mailing list -
<bodhi_zazen> 2. Froums - Admin thread and RC
<bodhi_zazen> 3. Monthly report
<bodhi_zazen> 4. Membership
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: s-fox: I'm here now
<bodhi_zazen> OK mhall119
 * s-fox wants membership 
 * bodhi_zazen puts coffeecat for ML
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox for membership
<cariboo907> I'll give the monthly report a try, as last month s-fox did it before I could even have a look :)
 * s-fox was so bad ;) 
<bodhi_zazen> OK, thanks
<overdrank> 2 for overdrank ?
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] dev forums
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: dev forums
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: you are up
<mhall119> I was just here to answer any questions or concerns the FC had about our request for a new App Developer forum
<mhall119> s-fox: do you still have that list?
<bodhi_zazen> Did you get the email from s-fox ?
<mhall119> let me find it
<s-fox> mhall119:  not right now no, sorry
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: two issues I recall
<bodhi_zazen> moderators ?
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: dpm and I will moderate, and we will recruit someone from the ARB and possibly consumer apps as well
<bodhi_zazen> Staff can help, of course, but we were sort of hoping you had 1 or 2 willing to help set the tone and establish the forums, answer questions as they come up, be active on in the forums
<mhall119> we discussed with the ARB during UDS, and they were positive about it
<mhall119> dpm and I will take the lead on moderation
<bodhi_zazen> OK, can you send that to the FC mailing list , with forums accounts names =)
<mhall119> I don't know about dpm, I'm most likely mhall119
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i recall licensing and not posting support questions on the forum as being issues that needed answers for
<bodhi_zazen> The rest of us can help with daily tasks, trolling / spam
<bodhi_zazen> Second issue, I just wanted licensing to be clear
<moergaes> What is ARB?
<mhall119> ARB is the app review board, they review and approve FLOSS apps that are submitted through developer.ubuntu.com
<bodhi_zazen> From time to time we get people who want to delete posts, argue over ownership of content ...
<bodhi_zazen> With app development, having a clear policy on ideas / code posted ...
<moergaes> thanks
<mhall119> you mean people posting code snippets that they don't have permission to post?
<mhall119> that kind of thing?
<bodhi_zazen> We need to consider how to manage potential feuds over who posted what , who modified the code ... etc
<mhall119> how is that handled in the other forums?
<bodhi_zazen> Developer A posts code A
<bodhi_zazen> Developer B then modifies code
<bodhi_zazen> Dev A & B then start feuding over licensing issues ...
<bodhi_zazen> Forums posts are covered by CC
<mhall119> ok, so wouldn't that also apply to this new forum?  Anything you post is CC
<bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy
<bodhi_zazen> All public forum data is released under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License and should be attributed to The Ubuntu Forums (ubuntuforums.org).
 * s-fox is big on tc  / policy issues
<bodhi_zazen> Do you all want such attribution to be added to code ?
 * s-fox is bored enough to read them thoroughly ;)
<bodhi_zazen> Or a policy all code is GPL unless noted ?
<mhall119> I don't imagine there will be a significant amount of code posted, mostly example snippets or "why isn't this working???" kind
<bodhi_zazen> Yea, but a clear policy for when problems arise need to be in place
<mhall119> if we're going to assign a code license, I'd rather something more liberal
<bodhi_zazen> Judging from previous spats
<s-fox> forums posts are creative commons arbitration 3 bodhi_zazen , just to add another spin :)
<mhall119> let me check with others on the code licensing concern, as it's not really my strong suit
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: OK, so yes, we need to assign a code license , if not it would be CC v3
<mhall119> but I'd rather see apache or bsd style
<bodhi_zazen> sounds great
<s-fox> cc v3 +! bodhi_zazen
<bodhi_zazen> some people feud about policy, lol
<mhall119> CC v3 might even be enough, for the small amount of code I imagine being posted
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  have you ever seen me feud?
<s-fox> ;)
<bodhi_zazen> The "works for us", so long as it works for you, I think checking is reasonable
 * bodhi_zazen pleads the 5th
<overdrank> seing double
<mhall119> I remember their being a question about using AskUbuntu for support questions
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-24
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: some people have asked about how you see working with forums / askubuntu
<mhall119> we have already  been using and promoting askubuntu for app developers to ask for help with coding/packaging, etc
<bodhi_zazen> I am active on askubuntu, so personally see no problems
<bodhi_zazen> but other staff are not as active on askubuntu
<mhall119> but askubuntu isn't a good place to seek advice, and it has no social interaction
<mhall119> the primary reason for an app developer forum is to give them somewhere for form as a community
<s-fox> mhall119:  why do you want to create a section on the ubuntu forums, but have all technical questions directed to askubuntu  ?
<bodhi_zazen> http://askubuntu.com/users/35795/bodhi-zazen
<s-fox> it seems very odd medium
<mhall119> well AskUbuntu can't do it, and we haven't really gotten much acivity on the IRC channel
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: explain AU, and how forums integrates with discussion
<mhall119> every other developer portal (android, windows, etc) has a forum for their app developer community
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: basically AU would be used for "How do I do X" and "Why isn't Y working?"
<mhall119> but questions like "What's the best IDE to use?" or "Should I use Gtk or Qt?" would be directed to the forums
<bodhi_zazen> So Forums gain - Visibility for developers , and a place for discussion
<mhall119> anything social would happen on the forums
<bodhi_zazen> AU is not so great with discussion
<mhall119> right, AU is just a knowledge base
<coffeecat> mhall119, sending app developers only to askubuntu for technical support limits their choice. They can ask technical questions on the forum as well.
<mhall119> coffeecat: they  can, and they will (people still ask developer help on IRC too)
<bodhi_zazen> AU community tends to use SE chat, not IRC
<mhall119> but in general we want to build up the amount of support information in AU
<mhall119> SE chat?  I didn't know there was such a thing
<bodhi_zazen> http://chat.stackexchange.com/
<bodhi_zazen> When I log in there, I get a list of the AU rooms
<mhall119> well thats......yeah...
<bodhi_zazen> http://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/201/ask-ubuntu-general-room
<bodhi_zazen> and on
<bodhi_zazen> A few AU members are active on IRC, most are in chat rooms
<bodhi_zazen> Any other questions about AU ?
 * mhall119 has yet another place to lurk
<mhall119> there was one more, but I don't remember it, and I can't find the email
<s-fox> does au allow for community links mhall119 ?
<mhall119> s-fox: community links?
<bodhi_zazen> AU tends to direct discussion to forums, forums are more "social" that way
<mhall119> s-fox: we're going to link to the forums on http://developer.ubuntu.com/community/
<bodhi_zazen> AU also has meta - http://meta.askubuntu.com/
<s-fox> we recently linked to other areas of the ubuntu community mhall119 , such as askubuntu and launched answers, it would be nice to see the link exchange returned
<bodhi_zazen> AU links to forums commonly
<mhall119> s-fox: I don't know about AU, but I plan on heavily promoting the use of the app developer forums
<bodhi_zazen> The netiquette , however, on AU is to re-post forums post with link
<bodhi_zazen> AU does not like it when you answer with a link to wiki or forums, and no content
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i was thinking akin to our nab bar menu items
<s-fox> :)
<s-fox> nab
<s-fox> nav
<bodhi_zazen> We could ask on meta
<bodhi_zazen> http://meta.askubuntu.com/
<bodhi_zazen> meta is sort of the place to ask for that s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> but AU community makes fairly heavy use of forums
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i could speak with jorge
<bodhi_zazen> so they would probably be open to it
<bodhi_zazen> That too s-fox
<bodhi_zazen> posting on meta either b4 or after would help ;0
<bodhi_zazen> Other questions for mhall119 ?
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: do you have questions for us ?
<bodhi_zazen> Next up - open floor - although s-fox has a topic
<bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Open floor
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open floor
<mhall119> is there a way to make a link that will create a new forum thread if one by that name doesn't already exist?
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox: topic
<bodhi_zazen> I do not think so mhall119
<cariboo907> there is an option to search if there is something similar, when creating a new thread
<bodhi_zazen> Anyone else have any questions or issues ?
<mhall119> ok, I would like to make a new thread for any new tutorials we add, I guess I can just make them manually and add the link
<bodhi_zazen> mhall119: tutorials on wiki or askubuntu ?
<s-fox> i request guidance on replies to the welcome message. i have been receiving 10ish email per day quoting message and then a series of stars. i assume this is spam filter in action, would it be okay to ban users who send these type of message ?
<mhall119> bodhi_zazen: on developer.u.c
<mhall119> dpm is putting together a collection of tutorials there
<bodhi_zazen> OK
<overdrank> s-fox +1
<cariboo907> s-fox, I did, when I handled the welcome message
<bodhi_zazen> s-fox that is one of the joys with welcome message =)
<bodhi_zazen> If it seems like spam, I will ban
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  it bites
<s-fox> :)
<bodhi_zazen> Who will take welcome message this month ?
<cariboo907> I will
<coffeecat> As a general point, I'm uncomfortable with using the censor list for spam domains. It removes the evidence.
 * s-fox thinks we should have a welcome bot 
<Iowan> With THAT kind of promo?
<s-fox> seriously, noone should reply to welcome message
<bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: do you know how to make that change in the admincp ?
<cariboo907> Yes I do
<bodhi_zazen> \o/
<bodhi_zazen> OK, teach overdrank or Iowan or some other admin to do it
<s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  welcome bot to send all welcome messages  ?
<bodhi_zazen> Part of rotating tasks is getting everyone up to speed
<cariboo907> Sure, no problem
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you
<bodhi_zazen> Any other topics
 * bodhi_zazen adds Welcome message to monthly chores
 * s-fox wants 4 weeks off adminny type things
<s-fox> :)
<Iowan> cariboo907: Show me...
<bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 24 00:17:26 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-23.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-23.00.html
<s-fox> thank you all for coming to the meeting :)
<bodhi_zazen> we are over our hour, bring any additional topics / questions to #ubuntuforums
<bodhi_zazen> Thank you all for coming and participating in the community
<mhall119> thanks everyone
<moergaes> Bye and good night!
<s-fox> au revoir
<vibhav> Has the meeting started?
<dholbach> vibhav, in 40m
<dholbach> o/
<l3on> :)
<highvoltage> o/
<dholbach> who else do we have here for the MOTU meeting?
<micahg> o/
<dholbach> perfect - we probably better get started - others might hop in in a few :)
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 24 16:01:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<dholbach> this is the first MOTU meeting in a long while, so please bring up whatever you want to discuss, even if it's not yet on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> #topic meeting times
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: meeting times
<dholbach> when we discussed this at UDS, the proposal was 2nd & 4th Thursday, 16 UTC
<dholbach> back then we already realised that this might be bad for some
<ajmitch> bad for a few :)
<highvoltage> it's right over lunch time EST, but I can live with it.
<dholbach> ajmitch, isn't it insane o clock where you are? :)
<micahg> highvoltage: it's the middle of the night for ajmitch
<broder> oh, o/ btw :)
<ajmitch> 4AM
<broder> looking at the wrong window
<dholbach> geser dug out the meeting times of the last MOTU meetings and it seems we alternated between 4:00 UTC, 12:00 UTC and 20:00 UTC
<dholbach> and AFAIK the new RMB teams will meet at 10 and 20 UTC to try to cover most of the world
<dholbach> any strong feelings about either of the possibilities? :)
 * ajmitch is still of the opinion that rotating meeting times is only useful if you'll have enough people show up
<pleia2> dholbach: 12 and 22
<dholbach> thanks pleia2 - I was close, wasn't I? :)
<pleia2> :)
<dholbach> we could trial one of the solution for a couple of months
<dholbach> any strong feelings or should we move this to the mailing list?
<vibhav> o/
<asomething> to the list!
<dholbach> alrightie
<porthose> o/
<dholbach> #action dholbach to mail list about meetings times
<meetingology> ACTION: dholbach to mail list about meetings times
<dholbach> moving on
<dholbach> #topic MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar)
<dholbach> it's unfortunate that Bhavani can't make the meeting, but he wanted us to briefly talk about MOTU school and ideas for this cycle
<dholbach> I think there was a work item in the blueprint as well
<dholbach> does anyone still have it in front of them?
<tumbleweed> can't see a workitem https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-motu-bof
<highvoltage> bhavani is in UTC+6 right?
<dholbach> I think the idea was to have a couple of training sessions throughout the cycle
<dholbach> highvoltage, UTC+5h30m I think
<vibhav> highvoltage: UTC+0530
<dholbach> ok, I can't find the action right now, but I think it was Bhavani (and others)  who wanted to have some training sessions this cycle, not as often as weekly, but every now and then
<dholbach> to provide an entry point for new contributors
<asomething> I think we could probably swing a few sessions, I just don't want to start promising regular sessions again and then fail
<ajmitch> it's a nice idea, as long as someone's willing to run them
<dholbach> maybe we could discuss a few ideas and collect a list of people who won't volunteer, but at least want to be involved in the discussions?
<tumbleweed> if it is only one or two sessions, that should be easier to staff, than a week-long UDW
<dholbach> yes, it should be a lot easier, if we would for example do a Q&A session or a "demo a bug fix" session
<dholbach> which doesn't huge amounts of preparation
<dholbach> ... require ...
<dholbach> do we have any reasonably new contributors here with some requests for training sessions?
<vibhav> me
<dholbach> vibhav, what would you like to see discussed in one of those sessions?
<vibhav> The debian/rules file
<highvoltage> maybe I'm going a bit off-cource, but it might be nice to have some kind of a list of people who'd like to attend beginners training, and every time there's 5 or so people in that list a session is scheduled. when there's small groups of enthusiastic people then google hangouts might be nice for that too. (and as I'm typing that I'm already dreading all the problems that come with google hangouts)
<vibhav> It took me some time to understand it :)
<dholbach> highvoltage, nice idea
<dholbach> vibhav, yes - sounds good
<dholbach> asomething, maybe we can even steal some of the content for the packaging guide :-)
<dholbach> highvoltage, I'd really like to get semi-regular hangouts going - as an experiment this cycle
<asomething> sure, there's also stuff that's been done before that we can update: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
<dholbach> ah yes, that might serve as a great basis
<highvoltage> dholbach: nice :)
<dholbach> it really doesn't hurt to repeat topics
<dholbach> everytime at UOW or UDW there's new folks who listen to the same "get started" sessions :)
<dholbach> ok, that sounds like a good start for Bhavani and others :)
<dholbach> everyone OK, if I mail Bhavani and CC the lot of you? :)
<dholbach> ok :)
<dholbach> #action mail Bhavani with info about MOTU School discussions, CC everyone who showed interest in the topic
<meetingology> ACTION: mail Bhavani with info about MOTU School discussions, CC everyone who showed interest in the topic
<ajmitch> sure
<dholbach> #topic review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar)
<dholbach> Bhavani updated the MOTU FAQ and wanted us to have a look at it
<vibhav> That FAq is a bit short
<dholbach> I think it'd be good if we all quickly went through it and commented in here, so he can review the log later on
<tumbleweed> there are definitly language issues to sort out (I almost sat down and edited it, but wanted to chat to him first)
<dholbach> vibhav: if you have some questions you feel should be answered, feel free to ask them in here
<dholbach> ... so they can be addressed
<vibhav> I dont have any questions till now
<dholbach> for "What prerequisites do I need to start off ubuntu development?" I think I could borrow some text from the packaging guide
<highvoltage> it would be nice if it had a bunch of packaging related questions and answers.
<tumbleweed> It may be worth leaving in a question on mentoring that maakes it clear that there isn't any, just use #ubuntu-motu
<vibhav> "Is MOTU Rocket Science?"
<dholbach> tumbleweed: good point :)
<highvoltage> does motu get a lot of questions about what ubuntu is? if that's the case then perhaps that page should also link to a more generic ubuntu FAQ first
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: that also occured to me
<tumbleweed> we do get lots of questions from new users asking what programming languages they need to know, that could probably be better addressed in the FAQ
<dholbach> yep
<highvoltage> tumbleweed: *nod*
<dholbach> it sounds like we can very easily fix a couple of things in there, and also merge the missing old content from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<vibhav> A question like: Do I need to know any programming languages for MOTU?
<dholbach> yes
<dholbach> I think if we all take just a couple of minutes after meeting we should be able to sort most of this out very easily
<vibhav> dholbach: I thought it was no, one can contribute to MOTU by only bringing upstream changes to Ubuntu or backporting fixes
<dholbach> vibhav: can you elaborate? I'm not quite sure I understand
<dholbach> bringing upstream fixes in and backporting them is definitely a good way to contribute - not the only one, but definitely a good one
<asomething> vibhav, I think dholbach was saying "yes, we need that question in the FAQ" not answering it yes
<highvoltage> it would be nice if we could link to my "where's the right place to submit my fix!?" flowchart once it exists :)
<vibhav> dholbach: Sure, For example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/873784 , Fixing it in Ubuntu only requires one to copy the changes from upstream and preapre a debdiff
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 873784 in accountsservice (Ubuntu) "reload_passwd uses fgetpwent rather than getpwent, ignoring /etc/nsswitch.conf" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<vibhav> hush you stuipid bot
<dholbach> yes, that's definitely a good way to contribute
<vibhav> SO, Apparently, You dont need to know any programming language
<vibhav> Just a knowledge of the debian build toolchain :)
<dholbach> it helps, but there are tasks where you don't need to know much yet and where you can learn as you go :)
<dholbach> alrightie, we should probably just all take a look at it later on - I'm sure Bhavani will appreciate it
<dholbach> shall we move on?
<vibhav> sure
<dholbach> #topic Update from Developer Advisory Team
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Update from Developer Advisory Team
<highvoltage> in many cases it's more important to know the policies around the languages, like python or perl or ruby each have their own additional policies and tricks in addition to the usual packaging things
<micahg> PHP, R, haskell...
<dholbach> highvoltage, yep - I'm sure we can phrase it in a general and reassuring way still :)
<dholbach> asomething, broder, huats: did any of you prepare anything update-wise? :)
<ajmitch> micahg: dont forget C#
<highvoltage> heh, I didn't even realise that that could sounds scary
<broder> nope, i haven't had time to do anything :-/
<broder> sorry
<asomething> dholbach, I didn't get around to much DAT wise in the past week
<dholbach> the only thing I have from the advisory team is: in the last 3-4 weeks we had 5 people joining ~ubuntu-dev which is great :)
<dholbach> and also we have the first very new people contributing to quantal
<dholbach> although I expect more new folks getting involved in fixing their pet bug in precise still
<dholbach> asomething, broder: I didn't get much done either - more in the next week :)
<dholbach> any questions for the advisory team people?
<geser> what is the Developer Advisory Team? hearing it the first time
<dholbach> oh ok
<ajmitch> top-secret cabal
<vibhav> http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/tag/developer-advisory-team/
<dholbach> forgive me, if I quote from the wiki page
<dholbach> This team in terms of UbuntuDevelopment, tries to fulfill the following tasks in the Ubuntu world:
<dholbach>     Reach out to new contributors, thank them for their work and get feedback.
<dholbach>     Reach out to people who might be ready to apply for upload rights and help them.
<dholbach>     Reach out to contributors that went inactive and get feedback from them and offer help.
<vibhav> A seperate channel dedicated for new contributors run the the DAT for questions might help
<dholbach> the idea of it was to close some of the gaps in process by social means - currently on the team are asomething, huats, broder, bhavi, warp10 and myself
<dholbach> the team has been in place since some time in the last cycle
<vibhav> Does the DAT have a facebook page or something
<ajmitch> -motu itself is quiet enough, I don't think a separate channel is necessarily a good idea
<asomething> dholbach, is your lightning talk about DAT from UDS online?
<dholbach> and a report of the outreach to new contributors has largely been put together by asomething here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~andrewsomething/dat/
<vibhav> Or the Ubuntu Developer Page on G+ could congratulate people who have got their first fixes into Ubuntu
<dholbach> asomething, I don't know
<dholbach> vibhav: up until now the DAT has mostly been reaching out to new contributors on a personal level - we never wanted it to become a mentoring team
<vibhav> ah
<dholbach> we felt that #ubuntu-motu or the motu mailing list were much better candidates to answer all kinds of questions
<dholbach> geser, does that sort of answer your question?
<geser> yes
<dholbach> ok cool
<dholbach> any more questions?
<dholbach> ok, moving on then :)
<dholbach> #topic Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative (dholbach)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative (dholbach)
<broder> hey guys - need to run early. don't give me too many actions ;)
<dholbach> another thing we discussed at UDS was to have regular bug fixing initiatives during the cycle and to use some of the time of the MOTU meetings to review the list and announce if afterwards, so new contributors have some predictably easy tasks to get started with
<ajmitch> broder: that's just asking for it..
<highvoltage> that's like fixit fridays right?
<dholbach> #action broder to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative with new thoughts and clever ideas
<meetingology> ACTION: broder to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative with new thoughts and clever ideas
<dholbach> thanks broder
<vibhav> What about a sponser-it-$DAY ?
<ajmitch> highvoltage: right, but getting the list together of things to work on beforehand
<dholbach> highvoltage, yes, but we'd keep the list up until the next motu meeting - so more like a "fix it week" or "fix it 14 days" :)
<highvoltage> heh, ok
<tumbleweed> highvoltage: also deals with all the newbies coming into the channel saying "what can I help with"
<dholbach> vibhav: I would hope that the patch pilots would handle that
<vibhav> ah fine
<dholbach> so does the page look generally alright to you? anything we should change or add?
<ajmitch> it's a good start for the week, we don't want to overload people with 500 things to fix
<dholbach> the speling-errors-in-description are just for ubuntu packages, so we should be able to more easily get them in
<dholbach> ajmitch, any other tasks we should be featuring? (maybe for intermediate contributors)
<micahg> dholbach: security CVE fixes :)
<vibhav> dholbach: backporting fixes?
<dholbach> vibhav: like which? from which list?
<ajmitch> the perennial favourites of the rc bugs list which I'll rewrite any day now(tm)
<dholbach> micahg, if we can curate a list of a few which should be reasonably easy - that'd be awesome
<micahg> dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/HighlightedPackages
 * micahg isn't sure if they're easy though
<ajmitch> security fixes is a good one
<vibhav> dholbach: I dont know any lists though, but we could create a list for backporting fixes
<ajmitch> they don't have to be easy
<dholbach> micahg, awesome - just to be sure we could pack it into the "experienced contributors" section
<dholbach> vibhav: the problem with curating lists of easy tasks is that it's easier if you have a list you can pick them off
<dholbach> micahg, would you be fine with those bugs being on the UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative page?
<vibhav> Eg: A bug reported from 1.04 is fixed in an SRU in 11.10; There could a list for "SRUs missing from the Ubuntu version they have reported"
<micahg> dholbach: sure, though the list changes every week, so you might just want to link to the page
<dholbach> micahg, nice
<asomething> I liked the idea of teaching about patch systems by finding a few good patches from: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-reviewers&field.tag=patch
<asomething> I can take an action item to add a handful to the wiki page
<dholbach> awesome
<dholbach> #action asomething to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-reviewers&field.tag=patch and add a few to the bug fixing page
<meetingology> ACTION: asomething to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-reviewers&field.tag=patch and add a few to the bug fixing page
<vibhav> But that would require some help from Launchpad too :)
<dholbach> I also added the lists you mentioned to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative/Organisation so it will be easier next time to pick tasks :)
<micahg> well, over half the archive should be source format 3.0 by now
<dholbach> ok, I think that should have us set up to announce our first bugfixing initiative early next week - what do you think?
<ajmitch> sounds good
<asomething> +1
<dholbach> awesome
<vibhav> dholbach: A list for fixing easy lintian errors
<vibhav> Like "Outdated Standards Version"
<vibhav> changing the source format to 3.0
<vibhav> ... etc
<dholbach> the issue with many of them is that these changes would better be done in Debian
<highvoltage> well... sometimes those are better to fix in debian
<vibhav> I almost forgot that
<dholbach> so we can sync the changes and not keep a delta just for a string change which almost has no impact
<dholbach> vibhav: but if you can think of something really easy for new contributors, feel free to add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative/Organisation
<vibhav> sure
<dholbach> thanks
<dholbach> #topic any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: any other business
 * dholbach reloads agenda page
<dholbach> no, nothing new on there -- does anyone have anything they'd like to talk about?
<vibhav> let me think
<vibhav> Could the packaging guide be translated?
<asomething> yes!
<dholbach> ha, great you're asking!
<vibhav> (Though it sounds silly)
<dholbach> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/
<micahg> dholbach: well, maybe towards the end of the cycle, helping Debian reduce their RC bug count once they're frozen
<vibhav> Oh wait, it can be
<dholbach> and the translations updates will automatically flow into trunk
<ajmitch> micahg: that should be sometime next month, probably worth doing that after feature freeze
<dholbach> we are currently figuring out how we can deliver these changes in Ubuntu (separate packages for separate languages, etc.) and to figure out how complete we want translations to be before we ship them
<dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/961936 has more of this discussions
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961936 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "Only ship translations which accomplish a certain level of completion" [High,Triaged]
<dholbach> micahg, yes, totally
<vibhav> dholbach: I agree
<dholbach> micahg, on the bug fixing initiative page we have some instructions for how to submit fixes to debian for packages which are not ubuntu-only
<dholbach> in the future we might want to collaborate with the debian-derivatives to pick a few targets we want to advertise
<micahg> dholbach: yes, but I'm talking about gleaning the Debian RC bug list that's unfixed and submitting patches
<vibhav> dholbach: Lintian error for Ubuntu-only packages
<micahg> then we can sync the fixes to Ubuntu
<dholbach> micahg, yep, exactly
<dholbach> sounds great to me - would you like to start doing that now already or in one of the next bug fixing initiatives?
<ajmitch> micahg: I've got some work items about the reverse RC bugs page, where we've fixed something in ubuntu
<micahg> gah, I forgot to do my work item of writing the criteria for dropping universe packages not in Debian
<dholbach> micahg, ^? :)
<vibhav> "check for packages that are worth removing from the next release"
<micahg> dholbach: I think later in the cycle is fine (once Debian is frozen and that RC bug list is the release criteria)
<dholbach> vibhav: yes, that's an action in here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-motu-bof :)
<vibhav> dholbach: I think  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/961936 should be for all packages in the Ubuntu Archive
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961936 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "Only ship translations which accomplish a certain level of completion" [High,Triaged]
<ajmitch> micahg: run wild with that chainsaw, please :)
<dholbach> micahg, ok, great - I'll keep you in mind for that :-)
<dholbach> vibhav: maybe it'd be a good topic to discuss in #ubuntu-translators
<dholbach> is there any other business?
<dholbach> #action dholbach to update minutes and wiki page
<meetingology> ACTION: dholbach to update minutes and wiki page
<dholbach> do we want to pick a chair for next time?
<micahg> dholbach: here's a handy link foe the Debian bug initiative: http://upsilon.cc/~zack/hacking/debian/rcbw/
<dholbach> micahg, thanks, noted on the ..../Organisation page
<tumbleweed> yeah, we can't make you chair them all :)
<asomething> dholbach, not if we don't know what time next time is
<ajmitch> broder volunteered, didn't he? :)
<dholbach> especially if we should decide in the meantime that all meetings are going to happen at 4 my time :-P
<dholbach> ajmitch, haha
<dholbach> asomething, yes :)
<dholbach> ok, let's leave it open until next time, then - I'm sure we'll find somebody
<dholbach> but I'll add it as a standing agenda item
<dholbach> thanks a lot everyone
<vibhav> There should be an FAQ on how does one apply to be a maintainer for an orphaned package
<dholbach> this was an awesome MOTU meeting
<ajmitch> thanks
 * dholbach hugs you all
<dholbach> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 24 16:59:44 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-24-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-24-16.01.html
<vibhav> Good night everybody!
<dholbach> night :)
<highvoltage> broder: we should probably talk about those facebook ads some time :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-25
<Daviey> o/
<seb128> hey
<skaet> hiya
<skaet> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri May 25 15:01:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ogra_> yo
<skaet> Welcome to the first of our weekly release meetings for the Quantal cycle!
<skaet> Before the meeting,  you can find the next meeting's agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda  (this meeting's conventions and format are documented there).
<skaet> After the meeting,  there will be the hot links to the teams status, summary pages, etc, and the wiki page will remain available with links to the IRC logs at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeamMeeting/2012-05-25 (where YYYY-MM-DD will change based on the meeting ;) )
<skaet> .
<roadmr> hello
<jibel> hi
<Star2012> can I have the floor
<skaet> Star2012,  there will be an open Q&A session announced as the topic soon.
<skaet> Before we go into the open Q&A session,  just want to give a reminder of some other key links.
<skaet> 12.10 Draft Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> 12.10 Team Interlock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<skaet> 12.04.1 Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
<skaet> .
<Star2012> ty
<skaet> Key events:
<skaet> 2012/05/31 - FeatureDefinitionFreeze (all blueprints should be in and approved for Quantal/12.04.1)
<skaet> 2012/05/31 - Reset of trendline on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/
<skaet> 2012/06/07 - Alpha 1 Milestone Release  (soft freeze on 06/04)
<skaet> 2012/06/21 - DebianImportFreeze
<skaet> .
<skaet> (yes A1 is coming up very soon.... ;) )
<ogra_> yay
<skaet> Conventions to use:  'o/' if you want to ask a new question after the current conversation is finished.  Please use '..' when you've finished discussion so that we can move on to next question promptly.  :)
<skaet> .
<skaet> Here are the weekly team updates received:
<skaet> Hardware Cert: ara, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001252.html
<skaet> Ubuntu Desktop: seb128, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001253.html
<skaet> Lubuntu: gilir, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001255.html
<skaet> Edubuntu: stgraber, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001256.html
<skaet> UbuntuOne: joshuahoover: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001257.html
<skaet> Kernel: ogasawara: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001259.html
<skaet> Security: mdeslaurs: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001260.html
<skaet> QA: jibel: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001264.html
<skaet> Server: arosales https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001265.html
<skaet> Xubuntu: astraljava https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001266.html
<skaet> Linaro: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001268.html
<skaet> Unity: dbarth, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001269.html
<skaet> Kubuntu: ScottK, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001270.html
<skaet> Thank you to those folk that got their ones in by 1900 UTC on 5/24!  :)
<skaet> and I think that takes care of the preliminaries....  :)
<skaet> ..
<ogra_> *sniff* sorry
<skaet> lol :)
<ogra_> Foundations: ogra https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001272.html
<ogra_> (to complete it)
<ogra_> ..
<skaet> Thanks ogra_ :)
<skaet> #topic Open Comment,  Question and Answer section...
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Comment,  Question and Answer section...
<Star2012> ty
<Star2012>  il take the floor for 1 min plz
<skaet> Star2012, go
<Star2012> ok issue ##Hardware
<Star2012> user adie AKA incest-adie
<Star2012> 1sec
<Daviey> erm
<Star2012> the uset is now also in ##Ubuntu-ops
<cjwatson> Nothing to do with this meeting.  Please go elsewhere.
<skaet> Star2012,  this doesn't appear relevant to this meeting.
<Star2012> ive warnrd the user and the channel ops not to let the user use this nick on this network
<Star2012> well its a server user issue
<Star2012> who sould i talk to
<Star2012> should
<ogra_> its a freenode/IRC issue
<ogra_> talk to the IRC Ops team
<Star2012> what channel
<Star2012> skaet,   sorry
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil
<skaet> Star2012,  lets figure this out,  in sideband discussion.
<Star2012> ty
 * skaet move on back to our regularly scheduled release issues ;)
<Star2012> sorry
<skaet> based on interlock,  we want to adjust alpha 3 to July 26 (currently August Any one see problems about adjusting A3 to one week earlier?
<Daviey> no issues here that i can see.
<skaet> arosales, ogra_, seb128, ScottK, and others interested ^?
<skaet> thanks Daviey :)
<Daviey> hmm
<arosales> none from me
<balloons> I see it as a good thing
<stgraber> WFM
<Daviey> one moment
<ScottK> It seems OK for Kubuntu.
<ScottK> We miss KDE SC 4.9.0 either way.
<seb128> no issue from the desktop side
<ogra_> should be fine, though note that we will change the arm images to live, that might cause unexpected breakage
<Daviey> skaet: So, Openstack upstream has done a pretty good job of aligning with out release schedule
<Daviey> http://wiki.openstack.org/FolsomReleaseSchedule
<ogra_> (and might require extra fixes and rebuilds)
<Star2012> ty for your time
<skaet> ogra_, fair enough.
<Daviey> skaet: So, moving it one week earlier, means we don't get Folsom-3
<ogra_> oh, wait, that was A3 ... we should have switched by then, ignore my comment :)
<skaet> Daivey,  can we see if they can adjust?   QA is going to be slammed with 12.04.1 in August, so trying to cut them some breathing room.
<Daviey> skaet: Hmm.. Can we hold off deciding this right now?
<skaet> Daviey,  yes,
<Daviey> super
<skaet> want to close it early next week before planning freeze though. :)
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Need to make some adjustments on status.ubuntu.com to get it more efficient again.
<skaet> It still appears to be tracking workitems from Oneiric and Precise.  Which is making the http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ rather misleading in terms of trend lines,  to put it mildly.  :P
<skaet> Any one have concerns about turning the tracking off for Oneiric and Precise ?
<skaet> (I still want the graphs and last snapshot of data visible though, useful for trending information ;).
<seb128> skaet, we should have turned them off at release
<skaet> seb128,  I think so too.
<seb128> skaet, precise is completly screwed now because we carried specs over to q and they drop off the precise charts
<seb128> skaet, I was trying to look at how many workitems desktop team got done in precise this week but we lost those infos
<seb128> most of the items just got dropped from it
<skaet> yes - if no one has strong concern otherwise - I'll work to see if we can get the data rolled back for precise to when we released
<skaet> and freeze it there
<seb128> skaet, I think pitti also raised concerns about the time it takes to generate the graphs over several releases
<skaet> seb128,  yup.  and cjohnston is concerned as well,  and it serves no useful purpose from what I can tell, so lets fix it.
<skaet> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<skaet> but I wanted to make sure that everyone knew about it,  and there wasn't something we were overlooking.
<skaet> :)
<skaet> given no other comments,  I'll move forward with figuring out how to get this cleaned up.
<skaet> ..
 * skaet has a long list of questions, but wonders if anyone else wants to ask some?
<skaet> ogasawara,  with the transition to debian unstable occurring there's going to be a lot of churn for the next couple of weeks,  can we hold off on move over to v3.5-rc1 kernel until after Alpha 1?
<ogasawara> skaet: I think that should be do-able
<skaet> thanks ogasawara.  *whew*
<skaet> ..
<skaet> (sorry,  should have waited for ogasawara ".." )
<ogasawara> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> ogra,  any feeling on when we'll be getting arm daily images again?   what's the cause of the breakage?
<skaet> ogra_, ^
<ogra_> skaet, broken chroots on the livefs builders, afaik infinity is on it
<skaet> ogra_,  will we be trying for arm images for A1?
<ogra_> s/broken/out7
<ogra_> grr
<ogra_> *outdated
<ogra_> why does IRC swallow my typing :P
<cjwatson> I got the impression nonexistent was more like it, but either way ...
<ogra_> skaet, i would like to see arm A1 images, yes, but given we will switch flash-kernel to the new world order and at the same time switch to live installs it might be a bit bumpy
<skaet> ogra_,  ok, we'll keep it in the "try for" list, but not block on it.
<ogra_> yeah, sounds sane
<skaet> ..
<skaet> ScottK, based on your blueprints you'll be trimming down the images for kubuntu this cycle.   What is the rollout plans for that?   which images do you want to try for with A1?
<ScottK> skaet: I don't know.
<skaet> ScottK,  can we figure it out by next week?
<ScottK> Sure.
<skaet> thanks. :)
<skaet> ..
<ScottK> The short answer for an Alpha 1 is something like 'the ones that will build' anyway.
 * ogra_ always thought they are "the ones that install" 
<skaet> fair 'nuf.   it is A1 after all.    Just like to start pruning images down as soon as possible.  :)
<Daviey> Side note, For Alpha1, Server would like to switch to squashfs based images, rather than pool of deb's... Perhaps releasing both style images for A1 for early comparison.
<skaet> I'm thinking of the testing side of it, and trying to make sure we've got folks focused on what we really care about.
<skaet> Daviey,  interesting side note,  thanks for raising.   Was coming to server later.    Lets discuss in #ubuntu-release after the meeting.
<ScottK> Daviey: You're not going to use D-I anymore?
 * skaet wondering about naming, dailies, etc. as well during experiment.
<Daviey> ScottK: no, still using d-i
<ScottK> OK.  I didn't know that was possible.
<ogra_> just using a squashfs instead of a pool
<skaet> ..  ;)  (discussion to go to #ubuntu-release)
<skaet> seb128,  which Ubuntu desktop images make sense to produce and test?   oversize desktop and alternate?  can we drop DVD from the dailies?
<ogra_> isnt alternate dead ?
<skaet> ogra_  that's what I'm trying to figure out,  not got enough data from blueprints status yet to know if the transition has happened.
<Daviey> I understood Alt. was dead.
<seb128> skaet, define "oversize"?
<ogra_> well, we probably didnt switch off the builds yet, not sure
<seb128> skaet, I think it was agree to have a 750mb (or 780mb) iso this cycle
<Daviey> seb128: i think, which ones do we have a quick reaction on to bring below size.
<seb128> so that would be the desktop one stretched to that size
<skaet> seb128,  bigger than 700mb - ie.  we'll go to USB from CD
<Daviey> ie, powerpc being oversized is not importiant
<ScottK> Personally I'd like to see full disk encryption support in Ubiquity before the alternates go away.
<Daviey> cjwatson: ^
<seb128> skaet, I will have to check with pitti (or cjwatson maybe knows) but I think dropping DVD is alright
<Daviey> ScottK: note, netboot is unaffected.
<cjwatson> ScottK: This is a requirement from Foundations' point of view; xnox is working on it.
<ScottK> cjwatson: I've been following the blueprint.
<cjwatson> I can't say I care about oversizedness at all for alpha 1.  We generally haven't much before.
<ScottK> Agreed.
<skaet> cjwatson,  agreed - mostly trying to figure out if DVD and alternates make sense to try for.
<ogra_> and currently we are still building alt.
<cjwatson> Daviey: server/squashfs> I'd rather do a straight switch, not build both, personally.
<skaet> and when we should be turning off alternates.
<cjwatson> skaet: Not until foundations-q-ubiquity-lvm-luks is implemented, IMO.
<Daviey> cjwatson: do you mind, having both for A1?
<Daviey> cjwatson: I'd like easy direct comparison of the advantages.
<cjwatson> Daviey: Yes, I do mind.  It's a fair bit of complexity to bring up an extra image type temporarily.
<Daviey> ok\
<cjwatson> You can compare with the last daily before the switch, or with 12.04.
<ogra_> its a bit stressful wrt testing and build times too
<skaet> cjwatson,  ok,  I'll use that blueprint as the trigger for turning off the alternate dailies.
<Daviey> ogra_: build times is 20 mins, and testing is via jenkins.. But i do see cjwatson's point.
<jibel> Daviey, QA minds if that means testing both for A1
<ScottK> I'm not sure who is going to do the KDE U/I bits for foundations-q-ubiquity-lvm-luks.
<Daviey> jibel: no, not releasing both... having both.
<cjwatson> skaet: I'll add a work item to that spec for foundations to do that once we're satisfied
<ScottK> It's possible we'll still need alternates for Kubuntu due to lack of U/I to use the new feature.
<skaet> thanks cjwatson. :)
<cjwatson> ScottK: It's probably not *very* much work ...
<Daviey> jibel: but also looking to drop i386 as a released image.. so that makes your life easer :)
<jibel> Daviey, Thanks so much :)
<ScottK> cjwatson: Maybe someone who's familiar with the code base because they just did a python3 port could look into it?
<ScottK> (since it's easy)
<ScottK> :-)
<cjwatson> ScottK: Seeing as I've deferred this blueprint since 7.04, I think it's a good idea for Dmitrij to be having a go at this rather than me this time :-)
<ScottK> OK.
<skaet> #action skaet to mail out summary of what we're trying for A1 early next week to ubuntu-release mail list, and what should be in final manifest, and make sure all teams are on the same page at next meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: skaet to mail out summary of what we're trying for A1 early next week to ubuntu-release mail list, and what should be in final manifest, and make sure all teams are on the same page at next meeting.
<skaet> :)
<Daviey> \o/
<ScottK> The one person we have who's still around and has done Ubiquity work at all has almost no time this cycle due to work commitments.
<skaet> yeah some sorting to do,  definitely.  ....
<skaet> ..?
<ScottK> o/
 * skaet assumes we've thrashed that topic for now
<skaet> ScottK go
<ScottK> For 12.04.1 preps: I mentioned in the Kubuntu status input we need three 4.8.3 packages accepted for precise-proposed.
<ScottK> Is there someone from ubuntu-sru that could look into that?
<skaet> ScottK,  Spamaps and RAOF are on point right now,  ask question in #ubuntu-release
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> ..
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks.
<Daviey> We should probably get SRU representation at this meeting in the run up to 12.04.1
<skaet> ..
<skaet> Daviey,  yes,  I think there may be a separate meeting about to form specific for 12.04.1, based on the blueprints.  ;)
<skaet> stgraber, ^ comments?
<skaet> if no separate meeting,  we'll continue to bring issues up here.
<skaet> and cross polinate
<skaet> (thanks ScottK :) )
<stgraber> yeah, still need to get the final list of attendees and figure out a time for it, but we'll have a separate meeting for 12.04.1
<stgraber> likely fortnightly, at least until we get close to 12.04.1
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> thanks stgraber..
<skaet> once the meetings kick off,  we can figure out logistics if it makes sense to have some else here, or if we can cover from folks who need to be in both already.
<skaet> ..
<stgraber> I think most attendees will be in both anyway... :)
<stgraber> ..
<skaet> ara, brendand - any updates on how the 12.04.1 certification is looking?
<roadmr> skaet: hi!
<skaet> :)
<skaet> thanks roadmr,  was just looking to see if you were in the channel.  :)
<Daviey> hmm, i was told certification strictly happens post release.. has that changed?
<skaet> oops
<skaet> meant to ask about 12.04
<skaet> lol
<roadmr> skaet: yes, was about to ask for clarification
 * skaet needs to watch her fingers autoprogramming...
<ogra_> skaet, ara said in her mail report there would be nobody from the team in the meeting today
<roadmr> skaet: we still have some pending systems, expect them to be finished next week
<skaet> any big worries showing up from the work so far?
<roadmr> skaet: some of our resources got repurposed so we've made little progress but should be back to full speed next week
<roadmr> skaet: nothing major, cert-blocking bugs are being reported...
<roadmr> skaet: and hopefully a few can be fixed in 12.04.1, that should unblock a few systems (for instance, some that won't install with the 12.04 kernel, we couldn't cert those :( )
<roadmr> ..
<skaet> roadmr,  thanks for that.   :)
<Daviey> roadmr: I assume there will be pre-cert on 12.04.1 images?
<Daviey> (pre-release)
<Daviey> (this didn't happen with 10.04.4)
<skaet> please get the bug numbers associated with the systems that won't install mailed out to the ubuntu-release mail list as soon as possible, so we can make sure they're being planned for with the 12.04.1 release.  :)
<roadmr> Daviey: hmm all I have is a full certification run once 12.04.1 is released, if you think pre-certing would be useful we can talk about that and see if we can manage
<skaet> +1
<Daviey> roadmr: okay, thanks :)
<roadmr> skaet: OK, we can email the ones we already have ASAP and send out another batch once we finish the remaining cert systems
<skaet> roadmr,  great.   Thanks!  :D
<skaet> ..
<roadmr> .. from me as well
<skaet> I think we're getting close to time for the meeting to wrap up.  any one else have last questions?
<Daviey> lets go home.
<skaet> Thanks everyone.  :)
<skaet> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri May 25 15:58:36 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-25-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-25-15.01.html
<ogra_> thanks skaet !
<seb128> thanks
<mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
<roadmr> thanks :)
<jibel> thanks!
<arosales> thanks for chair'ing skaet
<Daviey> thanks skaet
<stgraber> thanks
<ajmitch> ok
<wendar> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri May 25 21:09:16 2012 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * stgraber waves
 * ajmitch looks up the agenda for today
<wendar> hi stgraber
<wendar> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action review
<ajmitch> we covered the bugs pretty well at UDS, and came up with some new ones
<wendar> Yeah, seems like a lot were closed at UDS.
<wendar> we can drop any closed ones
<wendar> in fact, we can probably replace that with a general review of the arb tag
<ajmitch> some of those closed will change how much info we need to put into the packages as well, if I understood it correctly
<ajmitch> asomething has found a few more that are quickly related, we could tag those & check up on them as well
 * highvoltage jumps into the channel pool and causes a huge splash
<ajmitch> hi highvoltage :)
<asomething> ajmitch, they should be tagged arb already
<highvoltage> hi! sorry for being late
<ajmitch> asomething: excellent, thanks
<wendar> ajmitch: yes, we're able to drop all the custom tags from debian/control, and no longer need the special image install in debian/rules
<wendar> So, LP #914667 is now Fix Released, so dropping it from the agenda
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 914667 in Developer registration portal "Packages in the ARB process should go directly to Published without going to "Ready to Publish"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/914667
<ajmitch> now that we can see all app states, #915902 is also fixed & can be dropped
<ajmitch> the state changing is apparantly going onto production on monday, according to a related bug
<wendar> and #915902 is marked as Fixed Released, so dropped from the ARB tag, good...
<ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-portal/+bug/1004487/comments/1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1004487 in Developer registration portal "Every piece of feedback should send an email to the ARB list" [Low,Confirmed]
<wendar> #927588 is tagged with arb, so we don't need to manually track it
<ajmitch> wendar: are you editing the wiki page at the moment?
<highvoltage> nice to see that the bug list for the arb tag has come down so much
<wendar> ajmitch: not at the moment, go ahead
<wendar> #927588 is not tagged with arb yet, so I'll change that
 * ajmitch was just going to track down a few blueprints & add them under work items
<wendar> (it's a duplicate anyway, but good to keep it tagged so it gets cleaned up)
<asomething> python-distutils-extra got a few fixes that landed in quantal that fix up some little arb/quickly things
<wendar> asomething: great, thanks
<ajmitch> 3 blueprints linked
<wendar> asomething: yeah, it looks like that one is Fix Released, so we can drop it from the Agenda
<asomething> no more lintian warnings about the copyright, no more unused cdbs build dep, no more deprecated {XS, XB}-python fields
<ajmitch> asomething: ah, very nice, thank you
<wendar> uds-q-community-q-upstream-outreach-latest
<wendar> uds-q-desktop-q-quickly-latest
<ajmitch> I assume we need to get the blueprints approved for quantal & with a milestone set for them to show on status.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> wendar: you want those added to the agenda?
<wendar> ajmitch: yup, we've got ARB workitems on them too
<wendar> uds-q-community-q-upstream-myapps-latest
<stgraber> ajmitch: give me the URLs of the ones you need release targeted and accepted and I'll do it
<wendar> stgraber: some have already been done, but need to check which
<wendar> ("done" meaning release targeted)
<ajmitch> wendar: linked those 3
<ajmitch> stgraber: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-app-review-board is the only one unapproved, probably because I need to fill in the whiteboard from the pad
<wendar> ajmitch: awesome, thanks!
<stgraber> ajmitch: done
<ajmitch> stgraber: thanks
<ajmitch> wendar: how's the pkgme backend coming along?
<wendar> ajmitch: mostly done, I need to submit it to james for review
<wendar> ajmitch: (as a branch or a patch, I'm not sure which)
<ajmitch> branch, probably
<ajmitch> does it call the other backends once it knows some of the information?
<wendar> ajmitch: at the moment, no, it's completely standalone
<wendar> ajmitch: we don't really need any information from the other backends
<ajmitch> no, but it's useful to have the cmake backend run for cmake-using tarballs
<wendar> ajmitch: specifically, the Python backend isn't allowed to run on the servers, because it executes arbitrary code
<wendar> ajmitch: so for python code we can't use the Python backend at all
<ajmitch> that's a shame, since python code is one of the easier ones to automate
<wendar> ajmitch: what does the cmake backend add that's useful?
<wendar> ajmitch: well, Python code is so easy to automate, we don't need the Python backend
<wendar> ajmitch: our own is good enough
<ajmitch> alright
<wendar> ajmitch: I'll make a note to take a look at the cmake backend and see if it's work delegating or copying bits from it
<wendar> *worth
 * ajmitch thinks that there's probably some useful parts in the other backends
<wendar> ajmitch: I'll take a look
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> what other action items do we want to look at?
<wendar> ajmitch: mainly, just make sure that all our action items from the pads are now in the blueprints
<wendar> so they get tracked in status.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> looked like they should be there now
<wendar> also check the priorities, lots are Undefined
<ajmitch> as for the state of the queue, I've got a busy weekend ahead on submissions I've said I'd look at
<highvoltage> ajmitch: great.
<asomething> anyone know what team you need to be on to have your workitems show up on status.ubuntu.com?
<ajmitch> asomething: afaik you don't need to be on any particular team, but have the blueprints in the right state
<wendar> I'm guessing that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-app-review-board will appear in status.ubuntu.com after the next regeneration, since it's now Approved
<wendar> asomething: you need to be added to the right team
<ajmitch> wendar: oh you do?
<wendar> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-community-contributors
 * ajmitch came out of UDS with a relatively short list of work items
<wendar> ajmitch: smart move :)
<ajmitch> wendar: it can't be just that team, there's only 11 people in it :)
<wendar> ajmitch: afaik, ubuntu developers also get added
<highvoltage> I didn't seem to get ARB ones, but that means that when I have ARB time I can at least use it for looking at submissions.
<wendar> ajmitch: but not all members
<ajmitch> highvoltage: heh
<highvoltage> flavours also get automatically added iirc
<asomething> well, i'm already pending to join that team. guess I just need to bug someone to approve me. I am in ~ubuntu-dev though...
<wendar> basically, if you're on one of these teams, you're good: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/teams.html
<wendar> maybe we should get ubuntu-arb added to that...
<ajmitch> wendar: that'd be good, bug against summit?
<stgraber> skaet: ^
<asomething> looks like ~ubuntu-dev needs to be there as well
<micahg> asomething: why?
<micahg> sorry (didn't realize this was the meeting channel)
<ajmitch> micahg: it's ok, you can interrupt :)
<asomething> micahg, I'd rather not have to join even more teams just to see my work item status.
 * micahg would think something like MOTU might be worthy, but not sure about ubuntu-dev in general as a team
<wendar> ajmitch: I'm also behind on the queue, I'm afraid I pretty much dropped off the map for two weeks after UDS
<wendar> (moving and new job apologies)
<ajmitch> wendar: so have I, apart from looking at some apps locally on my laptop I haven't really touched it
<ajmitch> no need to apologise, it's a busy time for you :)
<wendar> I'll also be trying to catch up this week
<wendar> Last month some people did a Tuesday queue run
<asomething> i did a few reviews, but nothing I looked at was in shape to suggest ya'll vote on it yet
<wendar> did that seem useful?
<ajmitch> I think it was useful
<wendar> asomething: thanks!
<wendar> would you like to do one next week?
 * highvoltage also had to work last weekend so will actually take some time to relax this one
<ajmitch> finding a time that highvoltage & I could work on the queue together was a challenge, but I think it's good to talk to someone else
<highvoltage> ajmitch: should we try again next week the same time we've done it before?
<wendar> what time did you finally end up with last time around?
<highvoltage> it was 6am on a tuesday morning for me... that's... 10:00 UTC
<ajmitch> 6AM for highvoltage, 10pm for me :)
<micahg> asomething: if the ARB  had a lot of WI, maybe that team should be on the status tracker as well (apologies if this was already proposed)
<highvoltage> that was the only hour in the whole week we could align, we scanned through our entire schedule :)
<highvoltage> *schedules
<stgraber> micahg: yep, that's the idea, that's why I also poked skaet
<micahg> ok
 * ajmitch personally wants to try & get a couple of apps through to voting each week if possible
<wendar> ajmitch: yes, that sounds like a good goal
<ajmitch> not too high, but we could keep up with the queue fairly quickly if we each did that
<wendar> highvoltage: that's 3am for me, so I won't join live
<wendar> highvoltage: but, I could still plan to work on the same day
<ajmitch> wendar: after showing up for the MOTU meeting at 4AM this week, I can understand why :)
<wendar> highvoltage: probably a few hours before
<wendar> highvoltage: or else, a few hours after
<wendar> so, we'd be working in shifts :)
<wendar> like, I'm often up working at 6am
<ajmitch> sounds good
<highvoltage> wendar: ok. I'm trying to rework my schedules so maybe I could just make tuesdays a general ARB'ish day
<ajmitch> wendar: you were the last to look at unity-buss, what was the state of that?
<wendar> ajmitch: I sent her some changes to make (in email cc'd to the list)
<wendar> ajmitch: afaik, she made them all
<wendar> but needs to be verified
 * highvoltage feels kind of guilty about unity-buss
<wendar> I didn't realize at the time that highvoltage was already handling it
<ajmitch> she's been on irc recently asking about the submission, I thought I'd ask before jumping in with a review
<wendar> I just responded to a question on IRC
<highvoltage> wendar: well I'm really glad that you did jump in because I ran out of time right about that stage
<wendar> highvoltage: no need to feel guilty
<wendar> highvoltage: yeah, overall I think it's good that we can swap handlers on a package
<wendar> that's why I CC the list on all messages I send to developers
<ajmitch> that's useful
<wendar> I figure if I drop off, anyone else can read the list history and pick up where I left off
<highvoltage> I tend to do that too, except that most of my interaction with malin was via myapps or IRC
<wendar> yeah, myapps is trickier
<wendar> hopefully that'll be fixed soon and all those will be copied to the list too
<highvoltage> malin is great since she actually hangs out in the arb channel a lot, we don't have many contributors who are that proactive
<wendar> no idea about IRC, but definitely want to keep using it for devs who can
<wendar> yeah, she gets major points for active communication
<wendar> Okay, so this Tuesday we'll do some queue work
<wendar> I hope to get at least one app up for voting this week.
<wendar> I had a couple that were nearly ready to go before UDS.
<wendar> Any other business before we go?
<wendar> And, who wants to chair the next meeting?
 * ajmitch can chair it
<wendar> excellent, I'll put you on the agenda
 * ajmitch is a mug for volunteering, but it's at least not a 6AM meeting now
<wendar> glad the meeting time change helps :)
<wendar> okay, we'll call that a wrap
<ajmitch> thanks
<wendar> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri May 25 22:05:58 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-25-21.09.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-25-21.09.html
<wendar> thanks all!
<highvoltage> and thanks for chairing wendar
<highvoltage> have a good weekend eveyrone!
<asomething> bye all!
<stgraber> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-05-27
<AlanBell> hullo
 * AlanBell is a few minutes late
<Fuchs> \o
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC Team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun May 27 18:07:41 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic:
<jokrebel> Hi
<AlanBell> hi all, who is here for the meeting o/
<dax> o/
<IdleOne> o/
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<Myrtti> hello
<AlanBell> agenda is there
<Fuchs> o/
<IdleOne> is there quorum?
<AlanBell> probably not, might have to skip some bits or finish them off outside the meeting
<Myrtti> aw :-(
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
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<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20120429 is the minutes from last time
<AlanBell> action items for me were to do a call for ops (done)
<AlanBell> and to schedule the UDS session (done)
<AlanBell> yay
 * AlanBell likes done
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
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<IdleOne> 2 dones == cookie 4 you
<AlanBell> there was an appeal
<AlanBell> Lars Torben Kremer appealed a long term ban, but as there was no supporting information as to why we should do that the appeal was denied
<ikonia> I'm surprised to be honest that he bothered to appeal
<ikonia> I didn't think he'd be able to follow the process.
<AlanBell> there is an open appeal too, from mcloy, I closed that yesterday when the matter was resolved, but it appears that the user has reopened it today
<ikonia> no doubt
<AlanBell> I don't want to discuss that now, just declaring what is in the tracker for this agenda item
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
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<AlanBell> there are two bugs now, we closed a bunch last meeting
<AlanBell> bug 892500
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500
<AlanBell> so this one is the bantracking bots bug
<AlanBell> what do people think of ubottu-fr?
<ikonia> as a starting base, much much better
<IdleOne> Don't know how to use it yet, but I do like the information it provides
<IdleOne> it is a little more verbose on what is happening than eir is
<ikonia> the fact that it works with BT, is enough of a reason for me alone
<IdleOne> that is a + for it
<AlanBell> ok, are there any actions you would like me to take on this subject, like removing eir, or getting a plan for it to be merged into ubottu (or the other way round)
<ikonia> yes, I'd like eir removed
<IdleOne> I would like to see -fr merged into ubottu
<IdleOne> before removing eir
<ikonia> at the moment we have eir/ubottu/ubottu-fr
<ikonia> removing eir so it stops managing bans and phases out
<IdleOne> and testing the newbottu
<ikonia> allowing ubottu/ubbotu-fr to merge in
<ikonia> the longer we leave eir to manage bans the longer/hardware/more effort it will be to phase it out
<ikonia> hardware ??? harder
<dax> I'm not familiar with this situation, but would removing eir mean that there are some bans that aren't tracked/expiring properly?
<IdleOne> dax: yes.
<ikonia> dax: yes, and I've said I will query the eir database to phase them out until it's clear
<ikonia> dax: which is why I'd like it gone sooner rather than later so there are less entries
<IdleOne> best thing would be to comment all eir bans for #ubuntu and stop using it, letting it finish its work
<ikonia> IdleOne: you can't stop it while it's in the channel
<dax> ikonia: Indeed. If it's going to happen at some point, earlier is probably better.
<ikonia> it's never going to finish while it's in the hcannel
<Fuchs> minor sidenote: as already stated in #ubuntu-ops, the #ubuntu-de op team is also discussing ban management, and we'd be interested in results from these tests. Also poke us if we can help somehow.
<IdleOne> ikonia: we can stop commenting on new bans.
<IdleOne> with eir that is.
<AlanBell> anyone want to speak up for eir remaining in #ubuntu?
<ikonia> IdleOne: that won't stop eir managing the ban
<ikonia> don't all rush at once
<IdleOne> then how do we phase it out while maintaining a sane ban list?
<ikonia> IdleOne: you kill it out of the channel and just manually query it until it's #ubuntu list is empty
<Daviey> perhaps a re-cap of eir's isues would be handy?
<dax> One point here is that we didn't used to have eir, so this is roughly equivalent to the situation when eir was introduced and there were a few hundred bans without expiration set.
<ikonia> IdleOne: or manually remove the enries from eir
<dax> We managed just fine then.
<IdleOne> true
<AlanBell> removing eir would be a reversable step, nobody is objecting, it has been out of the way in the control channel for some time, there isn't a huge list of bans in it and ikonia will help manage the process of the bans in flight, so I don't see a problem with removing it
<ikonia> the real value eir brought was the floodbot/excemtion removal
<IdleOne> ok. kill eir soon as ubottu is merged and lets all learn to use the new bot :)
<AlanBell> #action alanbell to sort out removal of eir
<meetingology> ACTION: alanbell to sort out removal of eir
<ikonia> so as long as ubottu-fr is able to do that, I don't see a problem with the ban list
<ikonia> Daviey: do you want the bug number or an explination
<AlanBell> and please start using ubottu-fr more and ask niko for more information/help
<Daviey> explanation, for the nosey.
<AlanBell> Daviey: sorry, I missed your comment there
<AlanBell> Daviey: bug 892500 has some information on it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500
<dax> which links to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=%5Beir%5D , which has a list
<ikonia> Daviey: basically it was rushed into production and doesn't fit in with the current channel needs, eg: doesn't work with ban tracker, noisey on it's notifucations, controlled by freenode so harder to maintain etc etc
<Daviey> ok
<Daviey> thanks
<AlanBell> bug 913541 is the other open one, I think pici was looking at that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541
<AlanBell> I will follow up with pici later in the week
<IdleOne> guessing that will stay in progress for a while
<AlanBell> yeah, just want to get it down to zero, then manage it as an ongoing process
<AlanBell> #topic alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lis
<dax> AlanBell: how long's the list of those now? iirc someone made one and Pici's been contacting folks from it?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic:  alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lis
<IdleOne> Can staff remove cloaks even if the user is not on,ine?
<IdleOne> online
<Fuchs> yes
<dax> IdleOne: yes, though in non-adversarial situations like this it's probably better if someone attempts contact first
<Daviey> Incidentally, my membership expired without me realising it.. I only still have it through inheritance of other groups. :/
<AlanBell> ooh
<IdleOne> AlanBell: maybe set an end date for it and anybody not contactable gets the cloak removed? dax I agree it is better to try and get in touch first, but this can go on forever if there is no time frame
<AlanBell> that sort of thing does happen, and this process is about sorting that out
<dax> IdleOne: indeed
<AlanBell> we have done things like there was a MOTU who expired from that, but wanted to keep membership, so we just sorted it out
<AlanBell> by checking with the CC and giving the user an IRCC awarded membership
<AlanBell> so that is the kind of thing we can do to resolve the situation, but each one is individual
<AlanBell> anyhow, on to the alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lists
<ikonia> AlanBell: is there anything that can be fed back into the CC that the membership status currently doesn't really mean/do anything
<AlanBell> I have been doing some stuff with launchpad lib
<ikonia> maybe ask them to work on something to give it value/credability more
<Daviey> ikonia: The email alias is lost with alomost immediate effect.
<AlanBell> ikonia: it does a number of things, some less obvious than others, but we can talk about that later
<Daviey> (which is probably more important than a cloak)
<ikonia> Daviey: much more
<AlanBell> so we have launchpad groups for applying to be an op of a channel, and we have channel access lists
<AlanBell> these are not very well synchronised
<AlanBell> I am suggesting that we do a semi-automatic process to align them, and tidy them up
<Daviey> AlanBell: didn't Pici do some work around this, ~2 years ago?
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1003884/
<AlanBell> is some code that iterates through the groups and generates stuff that can be passed to chanserv to adjust access lists
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1003857/ would be sample output from it
<AlanBell> I was looking at doing a more intelligent comparison, but it is fine to just pass non-active flags to chanserv, it ignores anything that is already right
<dax> flags #foo bar -sriRfF+votiA is valid, btw
<AlanBell> this does depend on a couple of things, it means that every op will need to have their nickserv account name in their launchpad page
<AlanBell> dax: thanks for that, double the efficiency
<IdleOne> half the lines
<AlanBell> most people do have their primary nick, which for most people is their account name
<dax> AlanBell: lines 93-98 on that output paste look a bit wonky?
<AlanBell> dax: ah, yes I fixed that bug
<AlanBell> output is now like that without the wonky
<IdleOne> chanserv access list. Now with less wonk.
<AlanBell> Daviey: pici did the work on the members thing, I am not aware of anything directly in this area
<IdleOne> AlanBell: so besides all the ops adding their nickserv account name to LP what is needed?
<Daviey> ah, that must be what i am thinking ok.
<AlanBell> so, what this does is give every op +votiA
<AlanBell> so some people will get a few tweaks to their access
<AlanBell> #kubuntu for example has a wide assortment of flags, for reasons unknown to me
<AlanBell> there is also the option at this time to say that no humans have +F to channels, everyone is the same
<AlanBell> just the ubuntuirccouncil account having founder access
<dax> Some folks have IRC handles from other networks (e.g. OFTC) on their Launchpad. Not sure if that breaks things.
<AlanBell> dax: the code checks for 'freenode' in the network name
<dax> ah, missed that, nvm
<AlanBell> the worst that can happen is that chanserv tells me I am trying to do something on a non-registered nick
<AlanBell> alternatively we could run this and leave the various people with founder flags right where they are
<AlanBell> opinions please . . .
<dax> the worst that can happen is that the nick is, in fact, registered by someone else ;)
<Tm_T> AlanBell: I have no issues for people having founder flags
<AlanBell> dax: yeah, I will be mailing everyone to point that out
<IdleOne> that could be messy
<Tm_T> AlanBell: as long as ubuntuirccouncil has the rights it needs
<AlanBell> dax: and I will manually check for that, it is only a few people who have multiple nicks listed
<AlanBell> any other thoughts on people with founder flags?
<ikonia> the ubuntu irc council is responsible for channels in the names space
<dax> dunno if this still applies, but the subject of flags in e.g. #kubuntu has been a fun discussion in the past.
<ikonia> they should have founder flags to the channels,
<AlanBell> dax: good to know, thanks
<AlanBell> yeah, going to need founder flags to run the script and do anything useful with the output I should think
<IdleOne> I'm with ikonia I think the IRCC should have founder on all the channels in the namespace
<AlanBell> I believe the only one I need to sort out is #lubuntu, I will talk to unit193 about that
<dax> IdleOne: yeah, I think that bit's uncontroversial
<Unit193> A few xubu ones, you don't have any access in -devel
<dax> in that everyone who disagreed with it has been argued with until they stopped by now :P
<AlanBell> Unit193: just the core channels list
<AlanBell> ok, so lets leave people with +F with +F if they are still part of the ops team, and everyone else gets +votiA
<IdleOne> sounds good
<AlanBell> and ubuntuirccouncil gets the full christmas tree of blinking lights across the core channels
<m4v> what does +F allow that doesn't allow the other rest of flags? because I think is only that you can't be removed easily from the access list.
<AlanBell> I believe you pop up in some IRC clients as the owner of the channel
<AlanBell> and you can do /msg chanserv help flags to find out more details
<dax> no clients that I've seen. that'd be a bit insane
<ikonia> +F is just "your channel" you can do what you want
<AlanBell> oh, ok that has been a reason some people have given for wanting +F
<IdleOne> mIRC does it I think, but who cares about mirc anyway
<m4v> you can "do what you want" with +*
<dax> I doubt it does it out of the box. Maybe some ridiculous mIRC script does it, iono. Next time someone claims that, I'd be interested in knowing which :)
<Unit193> /cs info #xubuntu   for example.
<AlanBell> ok, so this is something I will progress, and there will be various emails informing people every step of the way
<dax> but anyway. leaving +F people alone would probably be a good way of avoiding possible issues
<AlanBell> I expect I will make some errors and annoy some people who didn't read the emails, but everything that is done in this exercise is reverseable
<AlanBell> I will be making every effort to inform people of what I am doing, down to the lines I am sending to chanserv
<AlanBell> right, lets move on to an item we sadly won't be able to vote on today
<AlanBell> #topic membership applications
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<m4v> my point is, if you need the flags for practical use, you need +* and not +F, if you want to see UbuntuIrcCouncil in chanserv info, then yeah.
<IdleOne> for what it is worth. +1 for Fuchs membership
<AlanBell> we have an application, and I would like to give Fuchs the grilling, even though we can't vote today :)
<AlanBell> hi Fuchs, please introduce yourself
<Fuchs> Yes :)   Hello everybody, my name is Christian, nickname is Fuchs. I am mostly active on IRC in the german ubuntu channels as an operator,
<Fuchs> and not very active in the english ones. But some people might know me due to other things I do, e.g. being staff.
<Fuchs> I have prepared a wiki page with my contributions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fuchs   and some testimonials
<AlanBell> that is indeed a nice wiki page
<Fuchs> the first two being from people from ubuntuusers.de, including an ubuntu member (toddyhb), and the last 3 ones from fellow german IRC ops, two of them also came along today :)
<AlanBell> so who is here shouting for Fuchs?
 * ppq is :)
<Myrtti> I am :-)
<ikonia> to be honest, it's hard to say anything non-positive
<AlanBell> well that wiki page answers most of the questions I would have around LoCo involvement and general community contribution
<Fuchs> feel free to ask away anyway, I'll be happy to answer :)
<ppq> (I left him a testimonial, I'm Benedikt Haus)
<AlanBell> Fuchs: what are your plans for community contribution going forward?
<ikonia> ppq: then why is your IRC name ircname  : Paul Giblock
<Fuchs> AlanBell: with regards to #ubuntu-de: I am currently looking with several persons (including niko) what we could use as a ban management,
<Myrtti> ikonia: you're looking at the wrong /whois
<Myrtti> that's why
<ppq> hehe
<ikonia> Fuchs: do you have any ban managment
<ikonia> oops, idiot, sorry
<Fuchs> AlanBell: since currently we don't have any.  I also started the ubuntuusers.de official IRC presence in the past months (you maybe remember the meeting we had), to have contact with our community on IRC as well
<ppq> ikonia: https://launchpad.net/~ppq that's me
<Fuchs> ikonia: currently not, no
<jokrebel> I know Fuchs as always available and very supportive. My English is not so good, but he is very busy at the german Channel with much know-how and very diplomatic in critcal situations.
<ikonia> ppq: sorry, I got you confused with the guy in #ubuntu-ops, I thought you where hium
<Fuchs> ikonia: eir came up, since I am staffer I already know it. Then niko told me about ubottu-fr
<ppq> ikonia: no problem :)
<Fuchs> ikonia: it will be a topic in our next op meeting again, that's why I am also interested in your experience with it
<ikonia> all too sensible
<AlanBell> ok, that sounds great to me Fuchs, I will discuss with the rest of the IRCC and we will vote on it and get back to you as soon as possible
<Fuchs> AlanBell: great, thank you. You know where you can find me if you need anything else :)
<IdleOne> Did I say I +1 Fuchs for membership
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic:  Any Other Business
<IdleOne> in case I didn't. I do.
<AlanBell> IdleOne: you just did :)
<AlanBell> anyone got anything else they want to raise?
<IdleOne> My children. close this meeting so we can get on with real life again :P
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun May 27 19:00:38 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-27-18.07.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-27-18.07.html
<AlanBell> there you go
<AlanBell> thanks everyone
<IdleOne> Thank you.
<Fuchs> Thanks, have a nice evening / day
<jokrebel> Bye, have a nice time
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-20
<LLckfan> Does any1 know how to stop Shockwave flash from crashing? I have uninstalled both Flash and my browser (Chrome), installed both from a fresh download, and scanned my computer (come up clean). Everything is updated
<Laney> D M B HOOOOOOOO
<Laney> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
 * tumbleweed waves
 * micahg-work waves
<Laney> EARTH! WIND! FIRE! PPU!
<Laney> . o O ( -!- There is no such nick glatzor )
<micahg-work> maybe you
<micahg-work> maybe you're invoking the wrong daemon, we're looking for the apt variaty
<Laney> we need one more member ...
<Laney> well, anyway.
<Laney> micahg-work: what do you think we need to do on the PPU proposal now?
<Laney> it needs to become public
<micahg-work> Laney, I guess you need to be more specific in your incantations...we just got an ubuntu-dev member ^^
<micahg-work> Laney, I think it's just stgraber weighing in and someone doing a proper write-up
<Laney> are you explicitly not volunteering for that then? :-)
<micahg-work> no, I'm just not sure I'll have time between now and the next meeting
<Laney> I'll start a pad
<micahg-work> I'm happy to take the task, just can't promise it'll be completed quickly
<Laney> and we can all do it
<tumbleweed> wasn't the proposal write-up proper-enough?
<micahg-work> ok, I'll happy to review/comment/edit
<Laney> maybe, but not public
<tumbleweed> ah
<tumbleweed> and we did find some confusion in discussing it
<Laney> indeed
<tumbleweed> so minor editing before making it public would be good
<Laney> so, do that, move glatzor to email and ping bdrung to keep up on the LO thread
<Laney> #endfakemeeting
<tumbleweed> worksforme
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> sorry, really need to reply to the PPU thread, will try to do that today...
 * bdrung arrives.
<tumbleweed> without glatzor, I don't think we need a real meeting
<tumbleweed> we can save laney's paperwork-effort for another week
<stgraber> sounds good.
<Laney> that's why I didn't start it properly
<Laney> (H)
<bdrung> Laney: todays meeting is a late meeting and will start in approximately four hours!
<Laney> is it?
<bdrung> yes
 * Laney sniggers
<bdrung> i wondered why my smartphone didn't remind me of the meeting and saw the meeting scheduled for later this day :)
<Laney> we'll see how that goes then
<micahg-work> oh, right :)
<ScottK> Here now ...
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in three hours
<Laney> haha
<bdrung> :)
 * Laney reports bdrung 
<bdrung> it's just a reminder for everyone to set their alarm :)
<ScottK> Here
<micahg-work> ScottK, meeting isn't for another ~2.75 hrs
<micahg-work> we jumped the gun
<ScottK> good thing I was late then.
 * sbeattie waves hello
<tyhicks> hello
 * sarnold waves sleepily
 * sbeattie kicks off the security team's meeting
<sbeattie> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 20 16:33:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is sbeattie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<sbeattie> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<sbeattie> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<sbeattie> Since jdstrand and mdeslaur are off today, I'm chairing.
<sbeattie> There's no announcements or actions to review this week.
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<sbeattie> I'll go first.
<sbeattie> Once again I'm focused on apparmor stuff this week.
<sbeattie> I'll be working on the items for the security-s-appisolation-sdk blueprint.
<sbeattie> I also have a bit of stuff for upstream, including irritating jjohansen with design discussions.
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm focused on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-dbus-performance this week
<tyhicks> I've got a little more benchmarking that I should finish up today
<tyhicks> then I'll push the dbus rule syntax discussion a little more to completion
<tyhicks> and I may also get started on the aa_log() libapparmor function
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I am chipping away at my blueprints as well
<jjohansen> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-s-appisolation-signals-ipc-ptrace
<jjohansen> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-extended-conditionals
<jjohansen> and of course arguing with sbeattie ;)
<jjohansen> hopefully we can get the dbus, and default profile discussions completed this week and move onto the next set of arguments
<jjohansen> sarnold: your up
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week
<sarnold> I've also got a back-burner project to take the fedora zlib environment variable thing for openssl -- some pci auditors are failing folks with postfix and tls for the flaw, and just providing them a way around rather than arguing seems like the best move
<sarnold> local packages are built, just need some testing and building with the intention of aiming for -security-proposed, I believe
<sarnold> front-burner is apparmor patch review for whoever can feed me patches :) (I think I've still got ~12 left from john's most recent patch flood)
<sarnold> chrisccoulson: your turn
<chrisccoulson> this week, i'm mostly focusing on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-webkit-maintenance
<chrisccoulson> i shouldn't need to do any updates this week \o/
<sbeattie> yay
<chrisccoulson> er
<jjohansen> sarnold: I'm sorry your queue is getting low I'll make sure to top it up again
<chrisccoulson> actually, there will be a fix for bug 1180227, but that's trivial
<ubottu> bug 1180227 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Missing AppArmor rule for Firefox 21" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180227
<chrisccoulson> that's me :)
<sbeattie> cool
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<sbeattie> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<sbeattie> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<sbeattie> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xml-light.html
<sbeattie> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boinc.html
<sbeattie> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/beaker.html
<sbeattie> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnugk.html
<sbeattie> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/xpdf.html
<sbeattie> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<sbeattie> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<sbeattie>  
 * micahg-work will save his ranting about Chromium for another week perhaps
<sbeattie> heh.
<sbeattie> Alright, doesn't look like it.
<sbeattie> ChrisCoulson, jjohansen, sarnold, tyhicks: thanks!
<sbeattie> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 20 16:47:49 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-20-16.33.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-20-16.33.html
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thanks sbeattie
<sarnold> thanks sbeattie :)
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<bdrung> meeting in 10 minutes
<ScottK> \o
<bdrung> glatzor is not yet online
<Laney> read the fakemeeting and see if you have anything to add if he doesn't show up
 * tumbleweed waves (again)
<Laney> just asked #ubuntu-news to fix the calendar meeting times
<tumbleweed> ta
<bdrung> I sent glatzor a reminding mail. let's see if he appears.
<bdrung> his @web.de mailbox is unavailable
<Laney> he used @ubuntu.com to mail us
<Laney> probably too late for a mail to matter though
<barry> btw, has everybody who is going to vote on sweetshark, actually voted?
<ScottK> Worth a try to mail @ubuntu.com
 * bdrung looked at launchpad and then on his wiki page instead of looking in my mailbox
<bdrung> i resent the mail to his @ubuntu.com address
<Laney> so, in the absence of glatzor, anyone got anything to add over the fakemeeting?
<tumbleweed> no, and I'm keen to go out for drinks, so if enough of the rest of the DMB is here, and/or he doesn't turn up, I'm off soon
<tumbleweed> (possibly to turn up later for a vote)
<Laney> go on, we've got enough
<barry> Laney: maybe this would go better after drinks? :)
<Laney> +1 ALL the applications!
<ScottK> I'm good with the results of the fakemeeting.
<Laney> #endfakemeetingII
<glatzor> hello bdrung
<bdrung> glatzor: hi. sadly, you are 1 hour too late.
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<glatzor> bdrung, oh no. sorry.
<bdrung> let's see who react to my ping.
 * micahg-work is still around
<barry> pong
<barry> i'm otp, but can pay a bit of attention
<stgraber> I'm around
<bdrung> otp?
<glatzor> bdrung, I have chossen a wrong time zone.London isn't UTC :/
<stgraber> bdrung: on the phone
<micahg-work> nope, London is UTC+1 ATM
<bdrung> glatzor: you can use "date -u"
<glatzor> I feel really very sorry.
<bdrung> glatzor: you are not the first struggling with UTC ;)
 * micahg-work is confused, shouldn't that have made glatzor an hour early...
<bdrung> half of the board members made a time zone calculation error at least once.
<bdrung> we seems to be quorate
 * micahg-work looks for Laney 
<bdrung> the next chair after Laney is micahg-work
 * micahg-work was already chair...
 * micahg-work supposes he could chair again
<micahg-work> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 20 20:02:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is micahg-work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<micahg-work> welcome to the Developer Membership Board meeting, this will be an abridged meeting as we've previous discussed the outstanding agenda items
<bdrung> then the agenda is not up-to-date regarding the upcoming chairs. but I don't deny your offer to chair again. ;)
<micahg-work> #topic PPU for glatzor (Sebastian Heinlein)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: PPU for glatzor (Sebastian Heinlein)
<micahg-work> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebastianHeinlein/PerPackageUploadApplication
<micahg-work> glatzor, please introduce yourself
<glatzor> thanks for taking the time so late in the evening.
<glatzor> I am Sebastian Heinlein. I contribute to Ubuntu since 2006.
<glatzor> I am involved in Free and Open Source Software development for one third of my so far 34 year long life. Starting as a translator for the Synaptic package manager I soon got interested in documentation and user interface design. The main developer of Synaptic and long standing Debian and Ubuntu developer Michael Vogt became a kind of mentor to me and introduced me to the Ubuntu community.
<glatzor> My first UDS was in Paris, 2006. I was mainly working on user interfaces and implementing them using Python. But over the time I dived down the package management stack. So after the PackageKit project was started I wrote a Python based APT backend. Unfortunately the technical design policies of PackageKit did not allow to support essential features of APT and the upcoming software-center. This was the time when I created
<glatzor> the aptdaemon project which is used as the default package management service in Ubuntu's desktop.
<glatzor> And I think that I even shared once a room stgrabber at an UDS :)
<glatzor> I would like to apply for for PPU for the packages that I am mainly working on:
<glatzor> aptdaemon, packagekit, sessioninstaller, python-defer
<glatzor> You can find additional information on my PPU wike page:
<glatzor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SebastianHeinlein/PerPackageUploadApplication
<micahg-work> glatzor, so, we see that you're very active on IRC, but less so with regard to sponsored uploads, is there any reason for that?
<stgraber> glatzor: haha, yeah, I believe that was the UDS in Dallas (though that was a long time ago, memory is getting fuzzy)
<micahg-work> #chair bdrung
<meetingology> Current chairs: bdrung micahg-work
<glatzor> micahg, that was part of mvo's and mine workflow. I commited many changes to the bzr packaging repositories and mvo uploaded them.
<micahg-work> ah, ok
<glatzor> micahg, so that is perhaps a reason why you don't see so many official sponsorships. But I have not been very active on IRC recently to be honest.
<micahg-work> ah, neither have I, maybe that's why I remember you as being active :)
<glatzor> micahg-work, :)
<glatzor> micahg-work, but in the last monthes I have been quite busy with my new job position and I moved places. So the time for development was a little bit short.
<micahg-work> glatzor, I can certainly relate to that
<bdrung> glatzor: what's your relation to Debian?
<glatzor> micahg-work, currently the big picture for my projects also isn't very clear. I don't know what the mobile focus of Canonical will mean for them: If aptdaemon/packagekit is a choice there.
<micahg-work> glatzor, do you feel comfortable with the packaging for all the packages that you're applying for?  I see that you're upstream for 3 out of the 4
<glatzor> micahg-work, that is another reason why it was getting a little calmer.
<micahg-work> *at least 3
<glatzor> micahg-work, Actually I was even part of packagekit before. I wrote the now obsolete Python APT based backend for packagekit :) But that is years ago.
<glatzor> micahg-work, packagekit and aptdaemon are very related to each other, since aptdaemon provides a packagekit compatibilty layer for Ubuntu - so that you can still use the PackageKit client libraries.
<micahg-work> glatzor, you're credited with the first packagekit upload in Ubuntu :)
<glatzor> bdrung, I am not officially involved in any Debian institutions - excluding the Munich Debian meeting :)
<glatzor> bdmurray,  micahg-work, I was in the lucky position that mvo made nearly all needed uploads of my projects. So I haven't feeled the need to apply for wider privileges before - regarding Ubuntu and Debian.
<micahg-work> glatzor, so, I think bdrung meant more in the Debian community at large (you are listed as the maintainer of a couple of packages)
<bdrung> one package is in sync with debian and the others are derived (more or less long time ago)
<micahg-work> glatzor, right, so, what I was wondering was that since now that you're applying, do you feel comfortable enough with the packaging (we know that you're an expert with the upstream code :))
<glatzor> bdrung, micahg-work python-distutils-extra is actually maintained by pitti who extended the project. Perhaps we should change the maintainer filed.
<micahg-work> (that's in sync as well FWIW)
<micahg-work> glatzor, ah, you're just an uploader on that
<bdrung> are there plans to get back in sync with the other packages?
<glatzor> bdrung, for aptdaemon and packagekit?
<micahg-work> aptdaemon + sessioninstaller
<micahg-work> ximion has done a great job getting packagekit back in sync
<bdrung> ^ micah is faster than I
<glatzor> micahg-work, I don't know if aptdaemon can add any benefit to Debian at the current time. The current maintainer Julian isn't a big fan of the aptdaemon/software-center stack
 * ScottK is here now.
<micahg-work> glatzor, so, why does he maintain it?
 * barry is finally off the phone
<glatzor> micahg-work, bdrung, since the GNOME desktop will use PackageKit directly I could even make sense to remove aptdaemon/sessioninstaller/software-center from the Debian archive
<micahg-work> packagekit has sessioninstaller functionality?
<glatzor> micahg-work, Julian is very good guy. He made really much progress in his development skills. I can still remember when I re-viewed his first patch.
<glatzor> micahg-work, He wanted to bring all the good things from Ubuntu to Debian to improve the Debian desktop experience some years ago.
<glatzor> micahg-work, So I think that the his maintainership is a mix of leftover and missing alternative maintainers who would step in
<bdrung> glatzor: would you step in?
<glatzor> micahg-work, packagekit provides thow DBus interfaces: on the system and the session bus. aptdaemon provides its own interface and the packagekit interface on the system bus. sessioninstaller implements the session packagekit interface.
<glatzor> bdrung, I would, but I haven't yet talked with Julian about this.
<glatzor> micahg-work, and indeed ximon has put a lot of effort into packagekit. That is also why I have got a bad conscience: the 0.8 packagekit interface isn't yet support by aptdaemon and so the 0.8.x series of packagekit cannot enter Ubuntu
<glatzor> micahg-work, there will only be a very small difference between the Debian and Ubuntu packagekit packaging. Mostly adding a small provides packagekit-system-interface.
<bdrung> glatzor: do I get it right that aptdaemon daemon is a replacement for the packagekit daemon, because both provide the same DBus interface?
<glatzor> ximon would like to reduce the bug load if people report bugs about packagekit clients but they are running aptdaemon on the server side.
<bdrung> with aptdeamon being a superset of packagekit?
<glatzor> bdrung, I would not say superset. I am not very happy with the current situation. Aptdaemon was written since we could not agree on technical design issues in packagekit.
<glatzor> bdrung, Richard didn't want to support any interactiveness in the package operations: So no terminal, no debconf, no conf file conflict handling.
<bdrung> btw, packagekit 0.8.7-2 was merged in saucy: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagekit/0.8.7-2ubuntu1
<glatzor> bdrung, So I started with aptdaemon. Aptdaemon has got another focus: we have got very fat clients (mainly using python-apt and xapian index) in Ubuntu. So we only needed a daemon that handles the "root" part only. packagekit is a complete solution.
<bdrung> glatzor: so minus the interactiveness, could software-center use packagekit instead of aptdaemon?
<ScottK> bdrung: In Kubuntu, we used a packagekit front end for awhile, but gave up on it.
<bdrung> ScottK: because?
<ScottK> It just didn't seem to fit in very well.
<ScottK> For example, the only way it could find out if additional packages needed to be installed, was to actually do a package install dry run and see.
<ScottK> So it was incredibly slow.
<barry> glatzor: when can we get py3 xapian and then move the whole stack to python 3? (it's a trick question :)
<glatzor> bdrung, theoretically. but you could e.g. not buy any software. s-c introduced its own package operation abstraction level. so you could adapt it with the needed development resources.
<glatzor> bdrung, there is a fork of software-center (mainly beacuse of the CLA) which tried to use it packagekit to also query all the package information.
<glatzor> bdrung, I think ximion worked on it. But it seems to be stalled AFAIK.
<glatzor> barry, that is the question that I would like to ask you :)
<bdrung> thanks for the information.
 * barry cries a little into his afternoon tea
<glatzor> bdrung, to be honest I would be happy if we didn't had the conflicts some years ago and we would only see packagekit around. especially since now the strict ban of any interactiveness in packagekit is gone. but the code has been written and is used.
<ScottK> I'll believe a package management system written for rpm will work well on Debian/Ubuntu when I see it.
<bdrung> glatzor: so it would be possible in the future to switch from aptdaemon to packagekit if someone invests the development time?
<ScottK> It seemed like "Oh, here's what we need for rpm, we'll just bolt on some bits for Debian and I'm sure it'll be fine".
<glatzor> bdrung, The process of buying software is currently made of several aptdaemon transactions. I would like to merge them into a single one. So that we could think about implementing a buy transaction type in packagekit. Mvo and me talked about this with richard last year. but getting API into packagekit is always a compromise - since it supports multiple platforms.
<glatzor> bdrung, right. but I think we are talking about a multiple years perspective.
<glatzor> bdrung, The APTcc backend of packagekit also would need some love. Dantti started with some rough code from synaptic and aptitude and it improved quite a lot lately.
<micahg-work> glatzor, I'm not sure my question about your comfort level with the packaging was ever addressed
<glatzor> bdrung, there isn't even a test suite for the APTcc backend. Unfortunately most Debian/Ubuntu developers don't the stack. Even the GNOME desktop team uses the good old terminal commands for the daily package operations.
<glatzor> micahg-work, right. I am quite confident that I can manage the packaging of the given packages. But I hope that I can still ask somebody if I would need help :) I wrote most of the initial packaging bits for the corresponding packages.
<micahg-work> glatzor, oh, sure, help's always available
<glatzor> micahg-work, But I need to test more before uploading. that is clear.
<glatzor> micahg-work, for the aptdaemon 1.0 release I made the "one-small-last-untested-commit-won't-hurt" error.
<glatzor> micahg-work, which thankfully was fixed by barry.
<glatzor> bdrung, oh, so the packagekit sync is perhaps also the reason why jenkins reports broken aptdaemon tests.
<glatzor> bdrung, I wasn't aware of the sync to be honest.
<bdrung> glatzor: merge, not sync
<bdrung> but the result is the same ;)
<glatzor> bdmurray, right merge. I will talk with pitti about this issue.
<micahg-work> #voters bdrung ScottK stgraber barry Laney micahg-work tumbleweed
<meetingology> Current voters: Laney ScottK barry bdrung micahg-work stgraber tumbleweed
<stgraber> +1
<stgraber> oops, a bit early ;)
<bdrung> stgraber: too early :P
<micahg-work> #vote Please vote on glatzor to get PPU for sessioninstaller, aptdaemon, packagekit, and python-defer
<meetingology> Please vote on: Please vote on glatzor to get PPU for sessioninstaller, aptdaemon, packagekit, and python-defer
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<barry> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from barry
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg-work> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg-work
<ScottK> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ScottK
<micahg-work> Laney also registered a +1
<micahg-work> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Please vote on glatzor to get PPU for sessioninstaller, aptdaemon, packagekit, and python-defer
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<micahg-work> glatzor, congratulations
<micahg-work> #action stgraber to set up PPU for glatzor per vote
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to set up PPU for glatzor per vote
<micahg-work> #topic AOB
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<micahg-work> anything else?
<bdrung> hopefully not
<glatzor> thanks a lot.
<bdrung> congrats glatzor :)
<glatzor> what is the next step for me?
<micahg-work> glatzor, stgraber has to add the ACLs to the archive
<micahg-work> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 20 21:18:07 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-20-20.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-20-20.02.html
<barry> thanks!
<micahg-work> so much for an abridged meeting! thanks all
<stgraber> micahg-work, glatzor: done (added ACL)
 * micahg-work adds the LP bit
<glatzor> thanks all for your patience.
<glatzor> stgraber, that is fast!
<micahg-work> glatzor, and you're in ubuntu-dev now as well
<glatzor> whoa. feels strange after seven years :)
<glatzor> bdrung, just a small footnote about the aptdaemon/packagekit thing: I think that is more important to share common API than a common daemon between the distributions. That is also why I started with adding the PackageKit layer on top of aptdaemon. This allows to differ where needed (e.g. API that is required by new software.center functionallity) but still doesn't block the adoption of the client library in third party pro
<glatzor> jects. I see PackageKit is the reference implementation of the interface.
<bdrung> glatzor: then the API needs to carefully developed.
<glatzor> bdrung, perhaps the click package format could be a chance to get some momentum into the merge APIs issue.
<glatzor> bdrung, we see new APIs getting written... gnome-software will allow alternative backends next to PackageKit. The dash currently calls a python helper to install packages. So it would be nice to not see a another API on the Ubuntu phone.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-21
<Daviey> adam_g: Hey!
<adam_g> o/
<adam_g> shall we?
<zul> we shall
<Daviey> adam_g: All set?
<adam_g> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 21 16:03:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is adam_g. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
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<adam_g> hey all
<jamespage> o/
<arosales> Hello o/
<Daviey> \o
<adam_g> hmm. we had no meeting last week because of UDS, correct?  last minutes i can find are @ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20130423
<Daviey> Correct
<adam_g> coolio
<adam_g> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
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<Daviey> adam_g: I think use the agenda from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<smoser> o/
<adam_g> so, we have no action poitns from last
<adam_g> Moving on?
<Daviey> adam_g: see the 3 things in Agenda?
<Daviey> (carried forward) arosales .. etc?
<adam_g> Oh, sorry. I was looking at the 20130423 minutes
<adam_g> arosales, any update: arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU?
<arosales> ugh, sorry /me still has a todo to follow up with Norvald.
<adam_g> k
<arosales> I thought there may be some discussion and vUDS, but I don't think norvald was there.
<adam_g> #action (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<meetingology> ACTION: (carried forward) arosales to follow up with Norvald regarding SRU
<adam_g> zul, any updates on the complexity of percona packaging in Ubuntu? i know therew was discussion at UDS
<zul> adam_g:  not really percona is giong to be working on thier stuff to get into the archive via debian and we will go from there
<adam_g> zul, cool is there a timeframe for that or relevant workitems/blueprint?
<Daviey> Yeah, great progress was made with percona at vUDS
<zul> adam_g:  no but ill update the work items
<Daviey> I feel confident enough we can remove it from the agenda.
<adam_g> Daviey, is there an action to remove it or just do not record as a new action for next meeting?
<Daviey> adam_g: yeah, just drop it on the floor.  No action needed, it'll be in blueprint, right zul? :)
<zul> right
<adam_g> k
<adam_g> smoser to reach out to juju-core and discuss what integration with ubuntu image meta data can be done for Raring.
<adam_g> smoser, any update? assume it didn't make it for raring, but any update on what is in store for saucy with regard to ubuntu images?
<smoser> juju-core support for simple streams data is basically in.
<adam_g> ah!
<doko> smoser, adam_g: do you know if there is any work planned to integrate the no goyaml into juju-core?
<TheLordOfTime> o/ (late sorry!)
<smoser> i don't know.
<adam_g> smoser, is there anything left to be done at that front that needs to be carried over?
<smoser> no
<adam_g> doko, i'd be surprised if they were not already using goyaml but you'd have to check with #juju-dev
<adam_g> Moving on?
<Daviey> adam_g: Looks good!
<adam_g> #TOPIC Saucy Development
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<jamespage> hello saucy salamander!
<Daviey> Still early in the cycle... and with vUDS last week.. we are getting things sorted.
<adam_g> well, we're probably all working on merges and syncs for some time now
<Daviey> jamespage: How are blueprints looking?
 * hallyn hides his behind his back
<jamespage> hands up who still has blueprints to write up from last week?
 * jamespage puts his hand up
<hallyn> o/
<Daviey> We need to make good use of the Blueprint review staus
 * zul does
<hallyn> i'll get to it this week
<adam_g> jamespage, is there a URL to get a list of blueprints filtered by the server team for S? was having trouble with this yesterday
<hallyn> Daviey: what does that mean?
<jamespage> OK _ so please can drafters sync up with session notes and document work items as well
<hallyn> yup
<Daviey> hallyn: see the Design field?
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
<Daviey> Lets pick on, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-mongodb
<Daviey> See it's Defintion is marked as Review?
<hallyn> y
<adam_g> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specs?role=assignee
<hallyn> Daviey: so switch that to drafting while working, then discussion when doen?
<Daviey> hallyn: When the blueprint is at a state where it can be moved forward, mark it as review.. So Scott, James and Myself can take a gander.
<Daviey> hallyn: Discussion is supposed to be last week.. Drafting is the current status
<Daviey> Review for, "Please Ack it"
<hallyn> ok
<Daviey> "Approved" is commence work
<jamespage> please can folks try to get stuff into a 'Review' state by the end this week
<jamespage> Daviey, does that sound reasonable
<hallyn> yes, sir
<rbasak> Is that why work items don't yet appear on my own page on status.ubuntu.com?
<Daviey> jamespage: That sounds a super plan
<hallyn> tsk tsk
<Daviey> rbasak: Sounds about right.
<jamespage> if people want some help then please ping me, smoser or Daviey
<arosales> Daviey, do we also need a topic for servercloud on status.u.c or should work items for individuals show up?
<jamespage> where help == guidance != write the spec for you :-)
<Daviey> arosales: I think we do indeed need a topic
<Daviey> arosales: I actually thought there were topics, but it looks like they are unrelated
<arosales> #action arosales to create status.u.c topics
<meetingology> ACTION: arosales to create status.u.c topics
<Daviey> arosales: You sir, are a true gent.
<adam_g> cool
<arosales> I'll do an "ecosystem" and "overview" topic any others folks are interested in?
<adam_g> anything else?
<jamespage> thanks arosales
<jamespage> oh - I had one more thing
<adam_g> sure
<arosales> glad to help where I can
<jamespage> last cycle each blueprint had a individual assignee and ubuntu-server as the drafter
<jamespage> this mean that work-items where by default owned by an individual rather than the team
<jamespage> Daviey, we seem to have switch that this cycle
<jamespage> so work-items are team owned unless specifically assigned
<Daviey> jamespage: You are certain that s.u.c won't DTRT?
 * jamespage shrugs
<Daviey> Maybe i am going barmy, but i'd imagine Assignee to be the main person on the hook for the blueprint?
<Daviey> ie, default owner of WI
<jamespage> Daviey, yes - but right now that's ubuntu-server team
<Daviey> BUT, if we do it the other way (AKA last cycle).. we get a pool of unowned work, which is ~ubuntu-server
<Daviey> So maybe that makes more sense?
<jamespage> no - we have a pool of unowned work with the way we have it now
<Daviey> jamespage: Ah yes.
<jamespage> I think that is wrong
<Daviey> jamespage: default to unowned sounds subpar to me.. What do you think?
<arosales> could Drafter and Assignee be switched?
<jamespage> sounds like we agree; can people switch them around please for the blueprints they are currently assigned as drafter for
<Daviey> jamespage: Ok, lets switch it around.  I'll do that for ones i am Approver of
<jamespage> ta
<Daviey> jamespage: I'll just bulk it.
<jamespage> adam_g, OK - I think we are done on that one
<jamespage> Daviey, ta
<adam_g> ok
<adam_g> i assume its too early to review release bugs, eh?
<Daviey> #ACTION Daviey to switcheroo Assignee & Drafter for Saucy blueprints.
<meetingology> ACTION: Daviey to switcheroo Assignee & Drafter for Saucy blueprints.
<Daviey> arosales: yeah, i don't think we have any bugs to worry too much about.
<Daviey> err, adam_g ^
<jamespage> adam_g, can you action me to chase down bdmurray about the release tracking report
<Daviey> zul seems to have identified a bunch of FTBFS and jenkins build failures with Havana on Saucy.. but not pertinent here i don't think
<adam_g> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
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<jamespage> I sware its not working again
<Daviey> jamespage: release tracking report?
<jamespage> release bug tracking report
<Daviey> jamespage: url?
<jamespage> actually don't bother - its working now - http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Daviey> rls-s-tracking-bugs.html
<Daviey> right
<adam_g> is anyone attending any events worth noting here?
<arosales> for events m_3 is at http://www.gluecon.com/2013/ this week
<jamespage> there is an openstack and mysql meetup in london on thursday
<arosales> I am at http://2013.texaslinuxfest.org/ at the end of the month
<jamespage> I'm not attending but Daviey is I think
<Daviey> I am at Openstack London meetup this Thursday
<Daviey> I am at Mysql London meetup this Thursday
<jamespage> :-)
<Daviey> (same building, same time)
<Daviey> (Say Hi, if you see me.)
<Daviey> ..
<adam_g> great
<Daviey> EOF
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (plars)
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<adam_g> plars, hi
<adam_g> if plars is not making it, anything else QA related?
<plars> hi, I'm here
<adam_g> oh! hi :)
<Daviey> \o/
<plars> not much, hallyn I think was looking at a bug on lxc?
<plars> one moment, let me dig up the bug #
<plars> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/1182540
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1182540 in lxc (Ubuntu) "lxc smoke test, test_lxc_apparmor appears to hang on saucy VM" [Undecided,New]
<plars> I believe you've already talked to psivaa about that though right?
<hallyn> uh, is that the one hementioned this morning?
<plars> also, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1181315 is affecting the floodlight test, kernel team is aware and looking into it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1181315 in linux (Ubuntu) "unregister_netdevice: waiting for lo to become free. Usage count = 2' is reported and causing kernel hang when floodlight tests are run using utah" [Medium,Confirmed]
<plars> hallyn: yep
<adam_g> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1181315
<hallyn> i ahdn't seen the open bug
<adam_g> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/1182540
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1182540 in lxc (Ubuntu) "lxc smoke test, test_lxc_apparmor appears to hang on saucy VM" [Undecided,New]
<hallyn> couldn't reproduce with a fresh saucy install
<Daviey> yolanda: did you send that mail to ubuntu-qa, about dep-8?
<hallyn> plars: have him ping me if it happens again on next run pls
<yolanda> Daviey, yes, i also had you and Jamie in CC
<hallyn> it appeared to be hung on flock
<plars> hallyn: yes, he's running again to get additional information
<plars> nothing else from me
<yolanda> i received a message from ubuntu-qa, telling that is pending of moderation
<hallyn> plars: thanks
<Daviey> yolanda: super
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
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<adam_g> smb, hello sir
<Daviey> smb is away
<adam_g> ah
<Daviey> I think we can skip this section this week.
<adam_g> ...and i actually had a question!
<Daviey> Oh
<Daviey> apw: Can you help answer a kernel question? :)
<adam_g> i was just wondering if we knew exactly what kernel requirements are needed to do xen now.
<apw> Daviey, ?
<Daviey> apw: adam_g said he had a kernel question.
<adam_g> was hoping someone could confirm whether a reboot is necessary. we touched on this at UDS but seemed nobody knew for sure
<apw> adam_g, needed to do xen ?
<apw> a reboot following what?
<adam_g> apw, can the vanilla kernel shipped /w ubuntu currently support running a xen hypervisor?
<Daviey> As far as i a aware, the primary kernel we ship is xen dom0 enabled OOTB
<apw> the vanilla kernel can be a dom0 kernel yes, obviously you still need to reboot following selecting xen as your hypervisor so it can get underneath the kernel
<adam_g> apw, thats what i wanted to know, thanks. someone mentioned that was no longer necessary last week.
<adam_g> thanks
<Daviey> apw: so that fiddles grub config?
<adam_g> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
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<rbasak> Nothing to report. Any questions for me?
<adam_g> Nothing for rbasak?
<Daviey> None
<adam_g> #topic Open Discussion
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<arosales> good blog post by roaksoax for maas juju set up @  http://www.roaksoax.com/2013/05/getting-started-with-maas-and-juju
<Daviey> +1
<rbasak> I'd like to draw attention to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2013-May/014518.html - for those interested in ldap, sssd, etc.
<Daviey> TheLordOfTime: Hello
<TheLordOfTime> Daviey:  hiya!
<TheLordOfTime> if you don't mind me stealing the floor for a few moments... :P
<rbasak> I'm also still soliciting comments on errors.ubuntu.com on the ubuntu-server list.
<Daviey> I need to dive out now, but TheLordOfTime wanted to discuss nginx
<marcoceppi> yay nginx
<TheLordOfTime> Per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1177919/comments/3 there was an informal request to consider nginx for inclusion either on the images or as part of tasksel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1177919 in nginx (Ubuntu) "Merge nginx 1.4.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<TheLordOfTime> or some other system.
<TheLordOfTime> the bug itself is irrelevant, but the comment is what i'm drawing attention to
<TheLordOfTime> nginx has gotten a lot more widespread use, and it's bugfixing has been a bit faster, namely because i've unofficially adopted it on the ubuntu side
<TheLordOfTime> i've seen other requests about whether nginx would be included on the images ever, and I've had to answer "I don't know"
<jamespage> hmm - we did look at this during raring
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-r-webscale
<rbasak> To be clear, are you suggesting nginx together with apache2 in main, or nginx to replace apache2 in main?
<jamespage> utlemming, around? ^^ any comment on nginx into main
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  i don't remember where the discussion of making nginx part of main went.
<utlemming> jamespage: yeah...the problem here is that security doesn't seemed to thrilled about it
<TheLordOfTime> it was a uds talkpoint
<jamespage> ah - and here again - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-webscale
<jamespage> and I'm the drafter
<adam_g> i'm surprised nginx hasn't been promoted to main by now.
 * jamespage faceplants
<utlemming> jamespage: the issue is nginx has a long history of CVE's and long standing security issues
<jamespage> utlemming, that certainly used to be the case - but is that true now?
<rbasak> I agree that nginx is popular, mature and has widespread use now. Not sure about the security side of things.
<TheLordOfTime> there are active CVEs.
<TheLordOfTime> well, last i checked, at least one
 * TheLordOfTime pulls the bug
<rbasak> It would be nice to have a "lightweight/minimal httpd" in main.
<TheLordOfTime> this is the last bug I saw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1098654
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1098654 in nginx (Ubuntu Raring) "nginx vulnerable to MITM Attack [CVE-2011-4968]" [Low,Confirmed]
<TheLordOfTime> granted i pulled that from debian and upstream trackers
<TheLordOfTime> it seems upstream's ignoring it though
<rbasak> (in addition to the do-everything heavyweight httpd that is apache)
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  i'm bringing it up as a talking point, not from my opinions
<TheLordOfTime> as we're aware, a common HTTPd deployment is LAMP
<TheLordOfTime> Apache, MySQL, and PHP
<TheLordOfTime> nginx has zero OOTB configurations that include PHP
<rbasak> Just reading that bug now. That seems like a really obscure case.
<TheLordOfTime> as it depends on php5-fpm (or similar) and proxy_pass-ing to the php5 backend
<rbasak> Who runs nginx in reverse proxy mode to an https server over an insecure network?
<TheLordOfTime> whether that's an fcgi wrapper or a php5-fpm running
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  nobody, but that's an example of a known CVE that has gotten zero upstream attention
<TheLordOfTime> unless I missed a few commits...
<rbasak> TheLordOfTime: yeah sure. That wasn't aimed at you - I appreciate you bringing it up.
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  no problem :)
<TheLordOfTime> but lemme go back to my initial "not a good inclusion" argument
<TheLordOfTime> we're aware LAMP is an easy-to-deploy system because Apache has a loadable module that speaks to php5
<rbasak> What I'm saying is that I'm not sure that should block an MIR - but I'm not as familiar with MIR policy and history as I'd like, or understand what security policy with that kind of vulnerability would be.
<TheLordOfTime> nginx doesn't have that, it requires manual configuration to work
<TheLordOfTime> although the sample default config *does* have a compatible clause that would allow php to work
<TheLordOfTime> but it's commented out by default
<rbasak> IMHO, nginx isn't necessarily supposed to have that. Even though I have put PHP behind nginx before.
<TheLordOfTime> i'm not sure what other points need to be addressed, maybe talk to the security team about their concerns.
<rbasak> I put some kind of fastcgi thing in the middle, IIRC.
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  it isn't, but debian included a default config with samples that work with Ubuntu/Debian php5-fpm out of the box
<TheLordOfTime> nginx debian package that is
<rbasak> OK...so where are we with it?
<TheLordOfTime> that's the discussion here.
<TheLordOfTime> personally, I vote to NOT move it to main
<TheLordOfTime> because the only person actively watching it in Ubuntu is me and maybe a few others
<TheLordOfTime> (probably mostly me, though...)
<TheLordOfTime> i also don't want to deal with an extra influx of "how do i configure it for [usecase]" questions
<TheLordOfTime> as those're bound to flood into existence if we include it on the images.
<TheLordOfTime> but my point here was to bring the discussion up again
<TheLordOfTime> i'm curious whether anyone else here has an opinion on moving it to main and/or including on the images.
<TheLordOfTime> and whether there's concerns from others on it.
<rbasak> I'm not sure those last two reasons are valid - but we're running out of time.
<TheLordOfTime> if there's anything I can answer, questions or the such, i'll answer if i can
<adam_g> can we take this to #ubuntu-server?
<adam_g> 2 minutes left here
<TheLordOfTime> we can, or we can take it to the mailing list,
 * TheLordOfTime is on both places
<jamespage> +1 ML
<rbasak> My concern would mainly be around whether it's suitable under main inclusion policy, who would look after it, and how much work it'd be.
<adam_g> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
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<adam_g> May 28th 16:00 UTC
<TheLordOfTime> last point on that last topic of nginx: we may want to discuss on the ML about this, so others who weren't here can chime in.
<TheLordOfTime> i'd say that's the first place to bring it up
 * TheLordOfTime is done.
<arosales> adam_g, thanks for chairing
<adam_g> TheLordOfTime, i agree. there are plenty of admins out there who are heavily vested that are not on IRC
<rbasak> TheLordOfTime: will do - thanks for bringing it up
<adam_g> till next week
<adam_g> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 21 16:59:34 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-21-16.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-21-16.03.html
<TheLordOfTime> rbasak:  no problem, i brought it up because it ended up as a request on an active merge bug.
<TheLordOfTime> (which, thanks to Daviey, has been included into Saucy)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 21 17:00:38 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/raring
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<bjf> o/
<ppisati> o/
<rtg_> o/
<cking> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Q/master: lp1176977 ("XFS instability on armhf under load") - working with
<ppisati> upstream on this one: i already backported a fix that turn the vmalloc() exhaustion
<ppisati> and fs shutdown to an -ENOSPC error, and this second error seems to be triggered
<ppisati> by the tiny fs used in these tests (~2GB). Still working to get it
<ppisati> properly fixed.
<ppisati> R/master: lp1171582("[highbank] hvc0 getty causes random hangs") -
<ppisati> the jtag console has a 1-char producer-consumer buffer and if there's no
<ppisati> real hw attached to the board, any subsequent write turn into an endless loop
<ppisati> waiting for a consumer. The situation is worsened by the fact
<ppisati> that before writing to this register a tty spinlocked is taken, and
<ppisati> any subsequent tentative to pick this spinlock makes the thread hang -
<ppisati> got a confirmation of the problem, some info about the hw, and i'm working on this.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-saucy/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> The burn down charts have not yet been reset for 13.10, so disregard the
<ogasawara> second link posted abovefor now.  I'll be cleaning up and adding work
<ogasawara> items for 13.10 so that the +upcomingwork link will be more accurate.
<ogasawara> Next week I'll have the usual nag table available.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> For now, we'll plan on targetting the v3.10 kernel for Saucy but will
<ogasawara> strongly re-evaluate a move to v3.11 in the coming months.  We've just
<ogasawara> rebased Saucy to v3.10-rc2 and are still cleaning up some of the
<ogasawara> carnage.  I don't anticipate we'll upload until a later -rc which will
<ogasawara> hopefully provide more stability.
<ogasawara> Importand upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> Thurs June 20 - Alpha 1 (opt in)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2013-05-21 (28 days) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 63 CVEs on our radar, with 8 CVEs added and 17 CVEs retired in the last 28 days.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<sconklin> Support for Oneiric and Hardy expired on May 9th.
<sconklin> Status for the main kernels, until today (May. 21):
<sconklin> *   Lucid - In Testing;
<sconklin> * Precise - In Testing; 2 upstream releases;
<sconklin> * Quantal - In Testing; 2 upstream releases;
<sconklin> * Raring  - In Testing; 3 upstream releases;
<sconklin> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<sconklin> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<sconklin> * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<sconklin> Future stable cadence cycles:
<sconklin> * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseInterlock
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 21 17:05:40 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-21-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-21-17.00.html
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-22
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
 * stgraber waves
<cjwatson> hi
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 22 15:02:10 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
<slangasek> stgraber ev xnox jodh cjwatson doko slangasek barry bdmurray stokachu
<slangasek> NB: ev is off today, so being third doesn't actually give you much breathing room ;)
<stgraber> Monday was a public holiday.
<stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
<stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
<stgraber>   - Waiting on review of the GPG implementation plan, need to get the keys generated and signed after that.
<stgraber>   - Waiting for IS to setup the image based update server.
<stgraber>   - Followed up with Ondrej, making some progress getting tar working in recovery.
<stgraber>   - Ported the tarball diffing tool to using python3-tarfile.
<stgraber> Other work:
<stgraber>  - vUDS Tuesday to Thursday
<stgraber>  - release/cdimage
<stgraber>    - Rolled out self-respin feature to the ISO tracker
<stgraber>    - Rewrote the qa-product handling of cdimage to use a list of all products and allow reverse lookups
<stgraber>    - Started working on integrating the last bits with nusakan (cron to query the list of pending rebuilds, start them and update the status)
<stgraber>  - Ubuntu Touch container flip
<stgraber>   - Got some help from ogra to get my Nexus 4 to boot straight into Ubuntu (no more Android)
<stgraber>   - Wrote some scripts and LXC configuration to start Android in LXC
<stgraber>   - Wrote some more integration code to make Ubuntu happy with that and get the shell running.
<stgraber>   - Result => I have a nexus4 with the phone shell running directly on Ubuntu with SurfaceFlinger running in an LXC container
<stgraber>  - LXC
<stgraber>   - Pushed C implementation of get_ips in LXC API, dropped the python implementation and update the bindings
<stgraber>  - Conferences
<stgraber>   - Booked travel for Debconf2013
<stgraber>   - Booked travel for Linux Plumbers 2013 and did some follow-up for the micro-conference we're organizing there (containers)
<stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Monday
<stgraber> TODO:
<stgraber>  - Finish self-rebuilds feature implementation on nusakan
<stgraber>  - Implement some of the remaining bits for the image based update server tools
<stgraber>  - Continue helping people with the container flip whenever they're stuck on LXC-related bits
<stgraber>  - Process some pending merges
<stgraber> (DONE)
 * ogra_ had some help from stgraber to get lxc running on top of a pure booted ubuntu :)
<ogra_> stgraber rocks !
<xnox> * Second day back from holliday.
<xnox> * Catch up on mail/pings/merges/boost1.53/debian
<xnox> * Also overdue patch-piloting for a little yesterday
<xnox> TODO:
<xnox> syncs, merges & outstanding ubiquity overflow from last cycle.
<xnox> .done.
<slangasek> stgraber, ogra_: great work!  When will the container flip reach the daily images?
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching
<jodh>   - libupstart:
<jodh>     - Library and abi-compliance-checker integration: DONE
<jodh>     - Test: INPROGRESS
<jodh>     - Code: lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart
<jodh>   - bug 1159895: Started work.
<ubottu> bug 1159895 in upstart "Allow for unsetting inherited variables" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159895
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Got a fix for the upstart logger bug stgraber reported. Currently
<jodh>     working on a new test for it.
<jodh> * TODO:
<jodh>   - Register for DebConf13.
<ogra_> slangasek, once it actually works :P
<jodh> â³§
<cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Working on a simple hooks implementation.
<cjwatson> Lots of merges, syncs, and generally trying to keep up with Debian.
<cjwatson>  - Fixed new scribus build failure on ARM.
<cjwatson>  - Fixed git-annex versioning chaos.
<slangasek> ogra_: I thought surfaceflinger is running, sounds like it's working to me :)
<cjwatson>  - Pushed Ubuntu changes to mklibs, rootskel (in part), debootstrap, rescue, sweep, and texi2html to Debian.
<cjwatson>  - Worked on transitions for libgd3, libsnmp30, vdr-abi-2.0.0-debian, and R 3.0.0.  Several resulting build failures which I've been pushing to Debian as I go.
<ogra_> slangasek, all i manage atm is to get the gui up manually
<cjwatson> Fixed bug 1180880, which broke oem-config's debconf frontend on non-i386.
<ubottu> bug 1180880 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Crash when starting oem-config on Ubuntu Server 12.04 amd64." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180880
<cjwatson> Heavily revised openssh's packaging, partly to take account of Steve's recent ubuntu-devel posting on Upstart job handling, and partly to dispose of ~8500 lines relating to very old upgrade handling.
<cjwatson> Adjusted binfmt-support in light of new Upstart job handling policy.
<cjwatson> Currently trying to figure out why all our livefs builds have stalled.  Looks like a udev (i.e. now systemd) regression.
<cjwatson> .
<slangasek> ogra_: ah, alright
<doko> - investigated and fixed gcj builds and gcj build faiures on multiarch systems w
<doko> ith glibc-2.17
<doko> - made libstdc++-4.8-dev m-a same again
<doko> - gcc snapshot builds
<doko> - python multiarch fixes
<doko> - proposed java7 for debian
<doko> - started on the aondroid cross toolchain
<doko> and Mon was a bank holiday
<doko> (done)
<slangasek>  * missed vUDS last week while on vacation, will catch up on the videos/blueprints later... but if there's anything you think I need to know about, feel free to flag it to me
<slangasek>  * uploaded sysvinit and friends to saucy, bringing the Debian and Ubuntu upstart support in line and opening the flood gates for upstart patches into Debian unstable
<slangasek>  * work on partner packages
<slangasek>  * MP reviews are owed on upstart and update-notifier :/
<slangasek> (done)
<barry> image based updates - completed the http/https refactoring
<barry> vUDS
<barry> lp: #105884 - pyc file corruption; (hopeful) fix landed in saucy.  waiting a few days before starting the sru process for precise & raring
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 105884 in compiz (Ubuntu) "[apport] compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV in removeScreenAction()" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105884
<barry> todo: image based updates - implement the gpg keyring regime, logging/debugging, reboot initiation.
<barry> done
<bdmurray> pushed fix for errors bug 1178027 re multiget vs xget
<bdmurray> daisy: tested code to back fill bucketsystems
<bdmurray> errors: set the problem page html title
<bdmurray> reported errors bug 1181329
<bdmurray> modified phased-updater code to keep track of emails sent
<ubottu> bug 1178027 in Errors "cassandra.get_package_new_buckets only gets 100 items from srcversionbuckets_cf" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1178027
<bdmurray> emailed ubuntu-release regarding phased updates report review
<ubottu> bug 1181329 in Errors "truncated tracebacks" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181329
<barry> er, lp: #1058884
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1058884 in python3.3 (Ubuntu Raring) "Race condition in py_compile corrupts pyc files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1058884
<bdmurray> review of errors in the released SRU report
<bdmurray> reported apport bug 1179979 regarding (add-apt-repository and apt-add-repository)
<ubottu> bug 1179979 in apport (Ubuntu) "symlinks create different python tracebacks" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1179979
<bdmurray> investigation into odd bash error appearing as a regression when it is not
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader fix for unicode error (lp: #1177821)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1177821 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "nÃ£o atualiza para a versÃ£o 13.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1177821
<bdmurray> bug triage of free space on boot ubuntu-release-upgrader issue (lp: #1173468)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1173468 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrade doesn't properly calculate free space needed for /boot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173468
<bdmurray> uploaded R SRU for bug 1173209 regarding ubuntu-release-upgrader
<ubottu> bug 1173209 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Raring) "Prompted about New Release for 13.04 again after dist-upgrade and a restart" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173209
<bdmurray> updated meta-release-proposed for raring and bug 1173209
<bdmurray> merge proposal for update-manager phased-update calculation change
<bdmurray> research into bug 1173013 regarding gksu and gdebi
<bdmurray> python compiled corruption issue research
<bdmurray> metarelease file changes for H and O
<ubottu> bug 1173013 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "Administrative Password Not Recognized" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173013
<bdmurray> creation and testing of "sru-accept2.0" to aid in reviewing and accepting SRUs
<bdmurray> with kees set the bug supervisor for ubuntu to ubuntu-bugcontrol and removed ubuntu-bugcontrol from ubuntu-bugs
<bdmurray> email to bugcontrol regarding team removal
<bdmurray> recording of virtual UDS sessions
<bdmurray> â done â
<stokachu> nothing on fire this week, spent past two weeks working on internal projects. done.
<slangasek> doko: will the android cross-toolchain still be ready by end of month?
<doko> slangasek, will tell you that next monday
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: not sure if there's anything to talk about here, or if you've been dishing these out directly by mail?
<bdmurray> slangasek: nothing to talk about here
<stokachu> first rule of fight club?
<slangasek> stokachu: and nothing new on your side either?
<stokachu> slangasek: nothing new this week
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> this could be a short meeting then :)
<slangasek> anything else you guys want to mention?
<stokachu> i need a sponsor for debian
<stokachu> :D
<slangasek> don't look at me, I'm lucky to find time to upload my own packages :/
<xnox> stokachu: did you file RFS on bts? with a dsc on mentors?
<stokachu> lol
<stokachu> xnox: yep
<xnox> stokachu: link?
<stokachu> bugs.debian.org/705192
<xnox> ack.
<stokachu> xnox: there were a few suggestions that i fixed from liang before he uploaded to ftpmaster
<xnox> noted.
<xnox> stokachu: i wonder, it it would be usefult to collect sosreport from apport.
<stokachu> xnox: yea more than likely it would be something like a apport plugin to run sosreport
<stokachu> i just havent found time to see where it fits best
<stokachu> another big push is from the cloud guys wanted to provide this by default on the images
<xnox> uploaded.
<stokachu> xnox: yay! thank you :D:D
 * slangasek returns from restarting his desktop session and glares at firefox
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 22 15:27:14 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-22-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-22-15.02.html
<stokachu> xnox: now i just wait for ftpmaster to approve and we are good to go?
<slangasek> ... before this turns into a rant about desktop stability ;)
<slangasek> thanks, everyone!
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<xnox> cheers.
<stgraber> thanks!
<xnox> stokachu: correct, there should a mail soonish stating the fact that it's in the new queue.
<stokachu> xnox: cool yep i just got it
<rbasak>  /wc
<howard_> When is the next Kubuntu Team meeting? The listing I see is for last March.
<Riddell> howard_: we just had one
<Riddell> howard_: what are you wanting at one?
<howard_> I wish to observe (if permitted)
<Riddell> all welcome, best subscribe to kubuntu-devel mailing list for notifications and hang around in #kubuntu-devel for most development
<howard_> TY
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-25
<superhidden> Hello
<superhidden> to all
<superhidden> :)
<superhidden> when will be the meeting Ubuntu Studio Contributors
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-05-26
<Tm_T> AlanBell: choo choo says night train
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> so Tm_T shall we go through the agenda?
<IdleOne> o/
<IdleOne> let's get to it, we are burning daylight.
<AlanBell> #startmeeting IRC team
<meetingology> Meeting started Sun May 26 19:25:57 2013 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic:
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
<AlanBell> we have missed a couple of meetings, and this one isn't really getting off to a great start :(
<Tm_T> hmmm
 * knome blows to a vuvuzela to lift up the mood
<Tm_T> if there's something that require broader participation from IRCC I suppose we can continue via mail with those subject
<IdleOne> +1
<IdleOne> m4v still hasn't been made a member :/
<AlanBell> yes, we can and m4v membership application is something I would really like to do by mail, that has been hanging for far too long
<Tm_T> agreed
<AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
 * AlanBell hunts back for the last meeting that wasn't just postponing stuff to the next meeting
<AlanBell> gosh, it really has been some time
<AlanBell> I will have a further hunt later for undone action items
<AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker
<AlanBell> there has been no activity in the tracker
<AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
<AlanBell> we have no bugs
<AlanBell> #topic Membership applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Membership applications
<AlanBell> we do have a membership application from m4v
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/m4v
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~m4v
<AlanBell> m4v has been a consistent long term contributor to Ubuntu in particular in the IRC area, and especially on the bot infrastructure
<bazhang> that should be an insta-pass
<Unit193> Is he here?
<AlanBell> I am entirely comfortable that the IRCC is an appropriate membership body for this application
<bazhang> m4v, not in this channel
<AlanBell> the wiki page looks good and there are strong testimonials
<IdleOne> m4v gets my +1
<IdleOne> please to pass that along on the mailing list :)
<AlanBell> we will vote on it by email, anyone else got any thoughts to add?
<Tm_T> +1 for mailinglist
<lderan> Hello
<knome> lderan, o/
<Tm_T> let's move to next topic
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> #topic Replace floodbot kick+ban behaviour for webchat users who flood - tsimpson
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Replace floodbot kick+ban behaviour for webchat users who flood - tsimpson
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal has further details
<AlanBell> Currently when a webchat user floods the bots will set a ban and kick the user, then forget about them. I think this behaviour is overly defensive and discriminates against webchat users unfairly. It would make more sense if the bots simply set -e for that user (as to apply the existing quiet on webchat users) instead of the +q they normally set.
<AlanBell> This would require some modification to the floodbot script but, as already treats webchat users who flood differently, it shouldn't be too major.
<Tm_T> +1 from mew
<knome> AlanBell, what's -e ?
<AlanBell> removing the exempt
<AlanBell> so as I understand it, webchat is +q by default
<Tm_T> knome: webchat is banned entirely, individuals have +e exempt that allows them to talk at all
<knome> okay
<Tm_T> banned, quieted, same effect in this case
<IdleOne> knome: currently we +q all webchat, then floodbots set +e so they can speak in the channel.
<knome> sounds fair
<IdleOne> setting -e would allow them to remain in the channel, but the floodbots would need to let the user know somehow how to get the +e reset.
<IdleOne> which would mean that when there are no ops around, the ops channel could end up with users waiting a long time and getting frustrated
<knome> wouldn't the webchat users get +e if they just rejoined?
<AlanBell> but at the moment they just get banned altogether
<knome> or would that have to be done manually
<IdleOne> knome: floodbots track which users have been banned so we would need some sort of mechanism to let floobots know that $user is ok to let back in the channel and be able to speak
<knome> mhm
<IdleOne> I don't think it will be a major issue. +1 to setting -e instead of kick/banning
<AlanBell> yeah, I think the policy suggestion is fine, it just needs someone to tangle with the floodbot code and implement it
<AlanBell> LJL knows that code, dunno if tsimpson was proposing to do it or not
<IdleOne> How is the open sourcing of that code coming, if at all?
<AlanBell> it would be good to get other people familiar with the floodbot code
<Unit193> Could be just like a quiet, -e and if it continues +b kick, and if not, +e.
<AlanBell> the code is on launchpad, not much progress since then, LjL wasn't around for some time and it became less of a priority once it was on launchpad (albeit in a private project)
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/floodbot is the project
<IdleOne> Would it be easier to use supybot with the functionality of the floodbots added?
<AlanBell> floodbot is written in PHP rather than python, it is 1807 lines of code
<AlanBell> and does some funky stuff with multiple instances of the bot talking to each other through control channels and sharing updates via a pastebin and other surprising and interesting features
<IdleOne> short answer: no.
<LjL> if the floodbots aren't going to set +b on kicked webchat users any longer, are we confident the ops will know how to actually ban them?
<IdleOne> most of us use scripts to do that
<LjL> IdleOne: which are webchat-aware?
<IdleOne> chanserv.py currently defaults to *591c6114@* for webchat
<LjL> uh?
<LjL> you mean it bans the ident?
<IdleOne> correct
<LjL> well that won't let the floodbots know the user is banned
<IdleOne> I know
<IdleOne> which is why those of us who use chanserv.py try not to ban webchat and instead we remove/kick and let floodbot set the ban
<LjL> then again these days the IP is in the webchat mask, so it's less bad than it used to be. but banning the ident or other funny things one might do don't play nice with the system
<bazhang> yep
<bazhang> just a remove
<LjL> IdleOne: and what do the others do, just ban *!*@gateway/whatever?
<IdleOne> not sure what auto_bleh does
<IdleOne> I haven't used it in a long time
<LjL> anyway to answer your question IdleOne, i don't think anyone has worked on the floodbots to bring them to what could be a releasable state. i know i haven't, and at this point, i really don't think i'm ever going to
<Tm_T> I have to go, but I support any changes toward equal treatment
<AlanBell> ok Tm_T
<IdleOne> LjL: understandable.
<AlanBell> so, do we think this is still a good idea, a bad idea, or an idea that requires further thought, and a plan for someone to implement it?
<IdleOne> currently the only one who could implement it is LjL right?
<IdleOne> I think maybe a better idea would be leave things the way they are but have floodbot send a notice to the channel asking for a live op to set a comment/duration on the ban
<Unit193> (Autobleh doesn't ban nick or ident, just host.  At least, that's how I set it up.)
<IdleOne> s/to the channel/to the control channel/
<LjL> i can comment out the line the says "ban it", but not sure whether it'll have other side effects i'm currently not thinking about. i guess i can just do it and we'll see. i'm not really in the mood to look at it in detail
<LjL> IdleOne: well it already sends a "-WARNING" that people are supposed to highlight on
<IdleOne> I would prefer if a live op decides whether to remove the ban or set a time limit on it.
<IdleOne> LjL: it doesn't tell us the banID though
<LjL> it doesn't have a clue about the "banID"
<IdleOne> doesn't ubottu ask floodbot to comment on the ban?
<LjL> i don't think so
<IdleOne> ubottu: sens me a PM every time I set a ban
<ubottu> IdleOne: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<IdleOne> sends*
<LjL> IdleOne, pretty sure the floodbots are exempted from them
<LjL> that*
<IdleOne> Well, fair treatment is all well and good. IF it means possibly breaking the floodbots other behaviors we might want to hold off.
<AlanBell> yeah, I am not sure about this
<AlanBell> maybe it could be a banforward rather than a ban
<AlanBell> but I am not sure how much of a problem this actually is
<LjL> honestly IdleOne, if you want to talk about this, you might as well talk about removing the webchat +b entirely and just handling webchat users manually. the floodbots introduced automatic handling for this because it was hard to match people's real hostnames with the webchat hostname they obtained
<LjL> but these days, the hostname for webchat users contains their real IP
<LjL> so you can just go ban that as needed
<AlanBell> ok, well it was a proposal from tsimpson, who was around earlier
<IdleOne> LjL: I didn't see the +b as an issue honestly. I would like it if the floodbots could ask us to set comments on the banID (not a big thing if they don't)
<IdleOne> just thought it would be a nice feature
<AlanBell> I think we need to discuss further, perhaps on the mailing list, I am not sure that there are any changes that really need to be made, and if there are, it might not be the one proposed
<IdleOne> IMO leave things as is. I think we are searching for a tech solution where one isn't needed.
<LjL> IdleOne: maybe ubottu can do that, the floodbots sure can't as they don't know about banIDs (and if they somehow got ubottu to tell you, it would be annoyingly complicated to deal with it, and there's no reason why ubottu couldn't do it in the first place)
<AlanBell> OK, I will send a mail to the list later with minutes of this meeting and highlight the discussion around this topic
<IdleOne> sounds good.
<LjL> AlanBell: maybe the only problem that should be a real problem that i see is what happens when people got automatically muted for flooding. if the involved person is a webchat user, then they get an automatic ban, and if there's no one around to remove that, they stay banned.
<AlanBell> yeah, I just don't know if that actually happens much to real people who are not intentionally flooding
<LjL> AlanBell: as to when ops actually kick someone manually, though... i think they should have a look at the modes being set and the floodbot "-WARNING" and realize
<LjL> anyway tsimpson may also be able to implement whatever is needed, i'm sure he's among the people most familiar with both the floodbots and ubottu. get his opinion, or just let him work out what seems best
<AlanBell> yeah :)
<AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business
<tsimpson> ubottu does
<tsimpson> "[ubottu] Please somebody comment on the ban of *!*@static-mum-59.181.90.147.mtnl.net.in in #ubuntu done by FloodBot3, use: @comment 55195 <comment>" eg
<AlanBell> oh, hi tsimpson
<tsimpson> \o
<LjL> tsimpson: ah that's nice, IdleOne's concern is settled then i think
<IdleOne> so the real problem is humans not listening to the bot when it asks for something
<LjL> yeah :)
<AlanBell> yeah, I think maybe a refresher on what messages the bots do that humans should respond to might be good
<Unit193> AlanBell: Review of the ubuntu-bots bugs?  I'd think [Eir] ones could be closed?
<AlanBell> #action AlanBell to compile page on bot messages for humans
<meetingology> ACTION: AlanBell to compile page on bot messages for humans
<tsimpson> there is only bug #899630 left
<ubottu> bug 899630 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "[Eir] Enable Eir to check other #$buntu channels for banned users and warn" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899630
<tsimpson> that should probably be closed
<AlanBell> interesting point Unit193
<AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<AlanBell> bug #899630 is now closed
<ubottu> bug 899630 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "[Eir] Enable Eir to check other #$buntu channels for banned users and warn" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899630
<knome> meetingology is tweaked by lderan! \o/
<meetingology> knome: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
<knome> boo.
<lderan> :P
<AlanBell> yes, lderan has done some great stuff :) private votes are on the way \o/
<knome> and the moin output is so much better, it's pretty much ready-to-copy-paste now
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> ok, any other stuff before I close this meeting?
<lderan> :D
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sun May 26 20:35:51 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-26-19.25.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-26-19.25.html
<AlanBell> thanks everyone
<IdleOne> thank you
<knome> you should all look in the wonderful wiki output
<lderan> yes do :P
<IdleOne> looks beautiful
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20130526
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-19
<xnox> #startmeeting test
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 19 08:19:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | test Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 19 08:19:21 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-19-08.19.moin.txt
<jdstrand> hi!
 * sbeattie waves
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 19 16:44:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<jdstrand> Thanks to Benjamin Drung (bdrung) who provided debdiffs for trusty for vlc (LP: #1276650). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1276650 in vlc (Ubuntu) "please update VLC to version 2.1.3" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1276650
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I will be travelling to the client apps sprint this week and preparing/attending that
<jdstrand> I'm in the happy place
<jdstrand> I'm not sure what the apps team has planned for me, so I'm not sure if I'll get to other items or not
<jdstrand> but I am working on a nova update and will be working on various may work items
<jdstrand> mdes laur is out
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm again working on the compiler hardening default stuff.
<jdstrand> how is that going?
<sbeattie> I've got the stack-protector-strong stuff in a place where I'm happy with it, as well as have updates for gcc's tests to cope with some failures that are being triggered by our defaults.
<jdstrand> nice
<sbeattie> I'll working on getting a patch for -pie by default on amd64
<sbeattie> err, I'll _be_ working ...
<sbeattie> I'll also be prepping more for the sprint next week
<sbeattie> I think that's it for me.
<sbeattie> tyhicks?
<jdstrand> tyhicks is off
<sbeattie> Oh, doh, tyhicks is not here today. jjohansen, I think you're up?
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor this week. I have several bugs that I need to continue investigating/fixing (1319984, a ptrace issue in the touch kernels, 1317545, ...)
<jjohansen> I have some fixes for the goldfish kernel that I need to spin into the other touch kernels
<jdstrand> jjohansen: is there any more you need from me regarding touch kernels as of today?
<jjohansen> and of course I'll try to get back to updating my cache improvements (caching multiple kernels, ...), so that they can be handed off
<jjohansen> jdstrand: no not atm, I need to finish chasing down what is going on with what I have, once I have a new kernel I will ping you
<jdstrand> perfect
<jjohansen> of and I need to stay active on the upstream cross rename stuff, and get ready for the sprint next week
<jjohansen> that is it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week
<sarnold> I'm still working on the QRT django test script
<sarnold> I think that's it for me; it'd be nice to be rid of that test script but it's consistently been more work than I've assumed so far
<sarnold> chrisccoulson, you're up if you're here :)
<chrisccoulson> hi, I'm here :)
<chrisccoulson> this week, I shall be working through my oxide review queue
<chrisccoulson> also, getting firefox 29.0.1 out
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: is that the one with the pdf printing fix?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, it is
<jdstrand> ok, cool. that has affected me :)
<chrisccoulson> aha
<chrisccoulson> I think that's it for me
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: that will include the UA fix too?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, that's not firefox. it's ubufox
<jdstrand> ah. I guess that is an extremely small change
<jdstrand> that is for this week?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it can be
 * jdstrand got asked about it
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: if you could, that would be great
<jdstrand> chrisccoulson: perhaps we should add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseCycle?
<chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, possibly. It gets forgotten about every cycle
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> if it doesn't have to be us, there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewReleaseCycleProcess
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-parser.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-i18n.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/maven.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/transifex-client.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/openarena.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 19 17:11:21 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-19-16.44.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks jdstrand
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
<wmack> Hello, this is wmack. I am before the board on the next meeting to seek approval of membership. I'm getting conflicting information on when exactly that meeting will take place.
<wmack> One piece of information says 1200UTC on May 21st (0500 AZ time), the other says 2000 on May 20th (1300 AZ time). Can someone clarify the actual date and time?
<wmack> cancel - someone enlightened me locally.
<xnox> also there are multiple boards... =)
<xnox> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, ScottK, Laney, micahg, xnox, bdmurray, stgraber: DMB ping
<xnox> meeting in 5 minutes
<bdmurray> xnox: I'm here
 * xnox sees appologies from micahg, Laney & stgraber
<xnox> bdrung: ScottK: bdmurray: are you about?
<bdmurray> xnox: I'm here
<xnox> out of applicants I don't see sil2100 on any channels, nor bkeresea.
<xnox> smb: are you about?
<smb> xnox, yup
<bdmurray> xnox: sil2100 is being handled via email
<bdrung> o/
<xnox> smb: have you seen the email from Laney on the mailing list, defining virtualisation package set?
<xnox> oh, looks like we have enough to start the meeting?!
<smb> xnox, Hm, no. Normal ubuntu-devel?
<xnox> smb: never mind, it was actually private. I'll bring it up during the meeting.
<smb> ah ok
<xnox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 19 19:08:13 2014 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<xnox> #subtopic Action: add stokachu to core-dev team
<xnox> I think this was competed.
<xnox> #subtopic Other
<xnox> any other actions that we have pending?
<bdmurray> nope
<xnox> i thought so as well.
<xnox> bkeresea doesn't seem to be online. in that case. moving on.
<xnox> #topic Establishment of the Virtualization package set
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Establishment of the Virtualization package set
<xnox> We have one applicant for a virtualization package set, yet such package set has not been created yet.
<xnox> A following list of packages was proposed by Laney, which without daubt can be considered to form virtualisation package set:
<xnox> xen, xen-api, xen-api-libs, qemu, libvirt
<xnox> bdmurray: bdrung: smb: would you agree?
<xnox> and if yes, shall we vote/ratify that, or simply discuss smb's application assuming such a package set?
<smb> xnox, for if we include xen-api then blktap may be added too
<smb> That was part of the the xen-api bundle of things
<bdrung> xnox: i agree that all these packages belong to virtualization.
<bdmurray> that sounds good to me
<xnox> #vote create virtualisation packageset consisting off: xen, xen-api, xen-api-libs, qemu, libvirt and blktap
<meetingology> Please vote on: create virtualisation packageset consisting off: xen, xen-api, xen-api-libs, qemu, libvirt and blktap
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<xnox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: create virtualisation packageset consisting off: xen, xen-api, xen-api-libs, qemu, libvirt and blktap
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<xnox> I think that's all votes we can get, and I believe above would be inline with stgraber/Laney as well.
<xnox> In that case going forward.
<smb> I would assume at least from stgraber
<xnox> #topic Virualisation Packageset Uploader application (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Virualisation Packageset Uploader application (smb)
<xnox> smb: hello =) can you briefly introduce yourself and talk a little bit about the work you do with above mentioned packages?
<smb> xnox, sure if you can bear with me being a bit slower at typeing :)
<smb> So I am Stefan Bader, working for the kernel team and through being kind of interface for the server team, started to care for the user-space side of virtualization, too
<smb> Most of the work I did was on the Xen package, where I went ahead and created the packaging of Xen-4.4 for Trusty (before that the Xen-4.3 version was also done to quite some degree). I also try to establish us to do upstream stable minor releases for Xen.
<smb> The other packages I touched more or less often for bug-fixes and libvirt for some improvements related to Xen as well.
<smb> I think that about is it...
<smb> Oh, maybe to add that usually I try to send improvements and additions to upstream (sometimes that is less simple than other times)
<xnox> smb: as far as I know xen apis, are very tightly coupled, thus on upgrade one cannot skip major releases. What is your vision to support XEN upgrades from e.g. LTS -> LTS? Are you planning to provide xen-hwe-* (like kernels)?
<smb> xnox, At least for the experience between Precise and Trusty the main issue was the toolstack which got deprecated. But the upgrade from 4.1 to 4.4 was doable without major issues
<smb> Only drawback were xend managed domains, but I provided a conversion script. Unfortunately that has to be called manually and is not working automatically as I initially intended.
<smb> Basically when upgrading from P to T there will be a strong push towards changing toolstacks as in the next version of Xen xm is really removed
<xnox> i see. Sounds good.
<xnox> smb: i see that xen package is ahead and not in-sync with debian. Are you planning to stay diverged from Debian? Or for example collaborate on the upgrade strategies.
<smb> xnox, I was trying to collaborate with Debian, though that is ... err... difficult
<smb> IOW hard to get feedback from the Maintainer there
<smb> I would rather not deviate (too much)
<bdrung> smb: have you tried to join the Debian Xen Team?
<smb> bdrung, No, not yet. There was an attempt by someone at Citrix but with not much success yet either
<xnox> smb: i see, happens.
<xnox> bdrung: bdmurray: any other questions?
<bdrung> smb: what's your experience with other package maintainers?
<bdmurray> xnox: no, I don't have any questions
<smb> xnox, libvirt and xen kernel parts receive better upstreaming. And for the kernel we usually try to keep multiple kernel versions working with each hypervisor (which actually is the answer to your previous question)
<smb> Feedback and acceptance is quite good there.
<smb> Well and also Xen parts which are not related to Debian packaging
<bdrung> smb: for example, libvirt is diverted from debian. Have you tried to join the libvirt team to join forces?
<smb> bdrung, No, actually I submit all changes that applicable for all to upstream directly. I think from my part there is probably one or two changes related to Debian. But yeah, it would maybe mae sense to discuss these with Debian developers too
<bdrung> smb: it is beneficial to become co-maintainer and get access to Debian git repository. This way you could push fixes and prepare new releases.
<xnox> smb: i find sending patches to BTS, even after already applied in ubuntu, helps. if they are taken then next merge/rebase will be easier, otherwise, well you do commit to maintain them =)
<smb> I agree it should probably be done even in hindsight (libvirt), Probably I should give them a go in this cycle
<bdrung> sending patches to the BTS as small chunks is always good. it can take very long until they are applied, but better late than never.
<xnox> I think we have discussed your position enough in-depth. So I'll call for votes.
<xnox> #vote Should Stefan Bader become Virtualisation Packageset Uploader?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Stefan Bader become Virtualisation Packageset Uploader?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<xnox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from xnox
<xnox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Stefan Bader become Virtualisation Packageset Uploader?
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<xnox> smb: congrats =)
<smb> thank you
<smb> :)
<xnox> #action Add Virtualisation packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: Add Virtualisation packageset
<bdrung> smb: Herzlichen GlÃ¼ckwunsch!
<xnox> #action Add smb as uploader to Virtualisation packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: Add smb as uploader to Virtualisation packageset
<smb> bdrung, Danke
<xnox> bdrung: bdmurray: anybody wants to take up on the above actions? =)
<xnox> otherwise, i'll try to follow-up on performing them.
<xnox> #topic Any other business =)
<bdrung> note for the vote: smb got +1 from stgraber and Laney via email.
<xnox> #topic Any other business
<xnox> bdrung: right, yes, i failed to mention that.
 * xnox is not sure why the topic is not changing.
<xnox> Is there any other business?
<bdrung> otherwise we wouldn't had met the required +4
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business =)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<xnox> bdrung: right, i thought quorum is +3. Noted.
<xnox> Next meeting is 2nd of June 15:00 UTC. Next chair is Laney. And I will not be able to make that meeting.
<xnox> Also we need to finish up / conclude sil2100 application via email.
<bdrung> xnox: we are seven in total and therefore need +4.
<xnox> I'll send a reminder about bkeresea application, which appears to have been stalled.
<bdmurray> xnox: its stalled because he has missed a couple of meetings
<xnox> bdmurray: i see. Is the time not convenient, or does he not want to proceed with application anymore? should it be handled via email then?!
<bdmurray> xnox: If I recall correctly its been two different meeting times
<xnox> bdmurray: i see.
<xnox> I guess that's it for today.
<xnox> #endmeeting
<bdrung> xnox: thanks for chairing.
<xnox> bdrung: yeah, almost managed it through =)
<bdrung> :)
<xnox> i think it's my first IRC chair.
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-20
<arosales> Hello
<gnuoy> \o
<rbasak> o/
<rharper> o/
<arosales> I'll be chairing the server team as I forgot to send minutes last week
<jamespage> o/
<matsubara> o/
<sforshee> o/
<beisner> o/
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<arosales> come on bot
<arosales> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<coreycb> o/
<arosales> #endmeeting
<arosales> #startmeeting
<lutostag> o/
<arosales> hmm looks like the bot may be sick today
<arosales> anyone know of any ways to kick it ?
<rbasak> Looks like meetingology isn't online at all.
<arosales> ok I'll continue without the bot today
<rbasak> AlanBell: help?
<arosales> rbasak: should I hold one for a sec?
<rbasak> arosales: I guess he's not online, and I'm not sure who to ask. Best to proceed without I guess.
<gaughen> o/
<arosales> rbasak: ok and thanks for the thelp
<arosales> *help
<gaughen> arosales, you're up again?
<arosales> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<arosales> no actions from last week
<arosales> it was a pretty brief call with it being post release and folks at ODS
<arosales> gaughen ya I forgot to send minutes so I am up again this week
<arosales> #topic Utopic Development
<arosales> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<arosales> so we have the client sprint going on this week
<arosales> vUDS is June 12, mark your calenders
<arosales> Alpha 1 at the end of June on the 26th
<arosales> #subtopic Release Bugs
<arosales> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-u-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<arosales> 3 high bugs under server
<arosales> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ec2-api-tools/+bug/1319555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1319555 in ec2-api-tools (Ubuntu Utopic) "update out-dated ec2-api-tools for 12.04" [High,New]
<arosales> smoser: utlemming ^
<smoser> i'll triage that.
<arosales> looks like utlemming is working
<smoser> oh, yeah. looks like it
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxc/+bug/1315052
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1315052 in lxc (Ubuntu Utopic) "lxc-attach from a different login session fails" [High,Triaged]
<arosales> looks like hallyn did some triaging ealier this month
<arosales> hallyn: any comments here?
<hallyn> fixed upstream
<arosales> hallyn: sounds like you are wating for the lxc fixes pushed as well but testing is looking ok
<arosales> re comment 2
<arosales> hallyn: will you be working to bring those into trusty and utopic, not current owners atm
<hallyn> updated the status
 * arosales refresh
<hallyn> stgraber will merge those in with regular merge of stable
<hallyn> i expect he'l be doing that next week
<arosales> hallyn: ah ok, thanks
<hallyn> (both for utopic and trusty)
<arosales> good stuff, thanks for the update and bug status udpates
<arosales> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/1317587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1317587 in clamav (Ubuntu Utopic) "ClamAV 0.98.1 is Outdated" [High,In progress]
<arosales> looks like scott kitterman has that in progress
<arosales> that covers the high, any other bugs folks would like to bring up here?
<arosales> #subtopic Blueprints
<arosales> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-u-servercloud-overview.html
<arosales> not found . . . .
<arosales> gaughen, smoser, jamespage: are utopic blueprints made?
<jamespage> inprogress
<arosales> ack
<arosales> given you guys have been sprinting and at ODS _completely_ understandable
<arosales> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<gaughen> arosales, yes - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-u-server
<arosales> gaughen: ah nice
<arosales> I'll update the IRC command link
<arosales> gaughen: any points you would like to cover re blueprints?
 * arosales doesn't see caribou around . . .
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<psivaa> arosales: We had some issues on smoke test infrastructure for utopic. it's now fixed and i'm going to kick the runs now.
<arosales> good to here there were fixes :-)
<psivaa> :)
<gaughen> arosales, like jamespage said they are a work in progress
<arosales> gaughen: ok, and thanks for the link
<arosales> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
 * beisner thanks psivaa 
 * smb looks surprised and removes the towel
<smb> For EC2 there is some discussion upstream for network issues of newer kernels (3.8+) which drop packets if fragments are, err, too fragmented. Not final outcome, yet. And on a side note, I might be getting more "dangerous" soon as I succeeded in getting a few more upload rights.
<smb> That would be all if there are no questions
<arosales> smb are you working with smoser or utlemming on the EC2 network issues in 3.8+?
<smb> arosales, No I was asking Xen / kernel upstream
<smoser> smb, is there a bug for this ?
<smb> yes
<smb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1317811
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1317811 in linux (Ubuntu) "Dropped packets on EC2, "xen_netfront: xennet: skb rides the rocket: x slots"" [Medium,In progress]
<arosales> smb thanks for the update
<arosales> smb: good luck on the additional upload rights too :-)
<arosales> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
<arosales> everyone rested from ODS?
<arosales> great demo btw
<gaughen> not sure I'm rested but I'm ready for resting this holiday weekend, arosales
<arosales> +1 to thtat
<arosales> that
<arosales> any other upcoming events?
 * arosales not aware of any so I'll move on.
<arosales> #topic Open Discussion
<arosales> any other topics
<arosales> ok sounds like all topics covered then :-)
<gaughen> nope
<arosales> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
<arosales> NEXT MEETING: Tuesday 2014-05-27 at 1600 UTC
<smoser> thank you arosales
<arosales> thanks all for attending
<arosales> #endmeeting
<jamespage> thanks arosales
<rbasak> Thanks arosales!
 * arosales will not forgot to send minutes this time :-)
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Utopic
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<kamal> o/
<rtg> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new to report this week
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-u/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> Here's our todo list until we formulate a better plan for tracking work
<ogasawara> next week at our team sprint:
<ogasawara> || apw       || core-1405-kernel || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> || ogasawara || core-1405-kernel || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Utopic Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We have uploaded our first v3.15 based kernel, 3.15.0-1.5, to the Utopic
<ogasawara> archive.  It is currently based on the v3.15-rc5 upstream kernel.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Mon-Wed June 9 - 11, vUDS (~3 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Thurs Jun 26 - Alpha 1 (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara> Fri Jun 27 - Kernel Freeze for 12.04.5 and 14.04.1 (~5 weeks away)
<ogasawara>  * NOTE: The PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule notes Kernel Freeze as Aug 9.  I believe this should be amended to Jun 27.
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Trusty/Saucy/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/kamal/arges)
<henrix> Status for the main kernels, until today (May. 20):
<henrix>   *   Lucid - Prep week
<henrix>   * Precise - Prep week
<henrix>   * Quantal - Prep week
<henrix>   *   Saucy - Prep week
<henrix>   *  Trusty - Prep week
<henrix>  
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix>  
<henrix> Schedule:
<henrix>  
<henrix> cycle: 18-May through 07-Jun
<henrix> ====================================================================
<henrix>          16-May   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<henrix> 18-May - 24-May   Kernel prep week.
<henrix> 25-May - 31-May   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<henrix> 01-Jun - 07-Jun   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks..
<kamal> thanks jsalisbury
<costales> Hi! :)
<costales> SergioMeneses, \o/
<SergioMeneses> hi everybody!
<costales> Hi folks!
<costales> Who is here from from the Catalan Team? :)
<wagafo> I am
<wagafo> HI everybody!
<rafael_carreras> i am
<alexm> o/
<costales> Hi wagafo! :) Hi rafael_carreras
<wagafo> Bona nit! in Catalan
<costales> hi alexm :)
<costales> Bona nit!
<rafael_carreras> hi costales
<alexm> hi everybody
<SergioMeneses> hello Catalan Team!
<rafael_carreras> hello
<josepgallart> hello
<wagafo> hello
<jose> ok, let's get started.
<PabloRubianes> hello
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20
<costales> let's go jose! :)
<costales> Thanks for coming!
<jose> oh damn.
<jose> give me a sec to put a meetingology clone live
<SergioMeneses> go for it
<costales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReVerificationApplication2014
<PabloRubianes> wait costales
<jose> someone needs to read backscroll!
<SergioMeneses> wait for the bot :D
<costales> :$ :P sorry
<jose> 2 more mins
<lluisanunez> hello everyone
<costales> hi lluisanunez
<jose> let's give this a try...
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20
<JoseBot> Meeting started Tue May 20 20:07:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
<JoseBot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* JoseBot changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business | LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20 | Current topic:
<jose> uh
<jose> #endmeeting
* JoseBot changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<JoseBot> Meeting ended Tue May 20 20:07:27 2014 UTC.
<JoseBot> Minutes:        http://people.ubuntu.com/~joseeantonior/Logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-20-20.07.moin.txt
* jose changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20
<JoseBot> Meeting started Tue May 20 20:07:49 2014 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
<JoseBot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* JoseBot changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20 | Current topic:
<jose> there we go
<costales> thanks Joeb454
<costales> thanks jose
<jose> hello everyone, and sorry for the delay
<jose> np
<rafael_carreras> hello again
<costales> hi rafael_carreras. Thanks for coming!
<wagafo> hello
<josepgallart> hello again
<alexm> hello from barcelona!
<costales> Hi everybody!
<cubells> hi!
<PabloRubianes> hello
<jose> #voters costales SergioMeneses PabloRubianes jose jose-as-smk
<JoseBot> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales jose jose-as-smk
<jose> so, welcome to another LC meeting
<jose> can any of the LC members give us an update for what today's agenda is?
<costales> Hi jose, yes
<costales> it's the Catalan team Reverification
<costales> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReVerificationApplication2014
<jose> nothing else?
<costales> I think no
<jose> ok
<jose> let's move on, then
<jose> #topic Catalan Team Re-Verification
* JoseBot changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council Meeting 14-05-20 | Current topic: Catalan Team Re-Verification
<PabloRubianes> hello
<PabloRubianes> before going with this
<PabloRubianes> I'm afraid we can vote on this topic today as we need to finish the discussion of the availability of teams in smaller regions than countries
<PabloRubianes> can't*
<rafael_carreras> i thought it was settled years ago
<PabloRubianes> we have at the moment a rule of one team per country
<alexm> how so? when did that change?
<jose> it's always been like that
<PabloRubianes> yes
<wagafo> But we have been approved for 7 years, and carried a lot of activities
<PabloRubianes> I know that the catalan team is a great one
<jose> it's not because you are a 'bad' team or a team which does not demonstrate activities, but instead because of the rules that are in place at this current time
<wagafo> Then only an Andorra team could be approved?
<PabloRubianes> but we need to fix this situation because we need to have rules for all teams not just for the spain teams and other for the rest of the world
<alexm> where's that rule written, please?
<alexm> no-one mention that rule on the meeting where we were approved as an official team
<jose> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#Getting_Started
<wagafo> Aren't there teams in the US only for Michigan or so?
<jose> sorry, could you rephrase that, please?
<costales> A lot of people is here today for the reverification. I think we could vote for the reverification now and discuss that theme in a short future. Are you agree?
<wagafo> When you discuss that just think that if the rule is one state = one team there will be no Catalan team any more
<jose> well, there's Ubuntu Spain, isn't there?
<costales> I'm from Ubuntu Spain jose
<costales> I think it's perfect now
<alexm> i'm not so sure that such one-team rule is so clear in the wiki mentioned before
<wagafo> That's in Spanish, we promote Ubuntu in Catalan
<costales> I think the Catalan team is the best team in Spain
<costales> and they are spreading Ubuntu in Catalunya in the best way
<costales> that is the important
<jose> I have already stated my point of view in those terms a couple lines above
<PabloRubianes> alexm: "If you would like to set up a LoCo team for a smaller region (such as a county or town district), you should work to do this within the existing wider team. "
<alexm> PabloRubianes: our team is much larger than a region, it has several countries included
<SergioMeneses> guys why dont you want to be part of ubuntu Spain?
<jose> before that
<wagafo> Catalan is spoken also in France and in Italy
<alexm> Catalan language is spoken in several countries
<jose> let's open a vote to decide if we should go ahead and proceed with the voting or not
<alexm> i think you should read the minutes from the meeting where the catalan team was approved
<jose> #vote continue with the re-verification process or not?
<JoseBot> Please vote on: continue with the re-verification process or not?
<JoseBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<costales> I think we (Loco Council) have to listen the teams in this important question
<costales> +1 continue
<jose> erm... JoseBot is awaiting votes
<JoseBot> +1 continue received from costales
<PabloRubianes> -1 we can't reapprove even we don't have a clear opinion about the rule
<JoseBot> -1 we can't reapprove even we don't have a clear opinion about the rule received from PabloRubianes
<SergioMeneses> 0 I feel we need more information about why split the team
<JoseBot> 0 I feel we need more information about why split the team received from SergioMeneses
<jose> -1 This could bring other consequences in the future, we need to address everything in one shot
<JoseBot> -1 This could bring other consequences in the future, we need to address everything in one shot received from jose
<jose> #endvote
<JoseBot> Voting ended on: continue with the re-verification process or not?
<JoseBot> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:1
<JoseBot> Motion denied
<costales> We could tell that to the rafael_carreras' mail
<cubells> QuÃ© fuerte!
<PabloRubianes> wagafo alexm this is not against the catalan team, but please understand that we have many other regions from the world that want to divide, but we have a fixed amount of resources
<costales> before the meeting :/
<jose> so, the re-verification process has been suspended as of now, but let's move on with those questions
<jose> resources are just one part of the whole we need to see
<jose> so, SergioMeneses, I think you had a question?
<josepgallart> :'(
<SergioMeneses> I was asking about why the guys dont want to be part of ubuntu-spain?
<cubells> SergioMeneses: Because my culture is diferent,
<SergioMeneses> is it a problem? language issues? demographic ? geographic?
<lluisanunez> It's a matter of language
<rafael_carreras> there are some issues here, being the language the first one
<cubells> SergioMeneses: because my language is different
<alexm> SergioMeneses: because Catalan is also spoken in Andorra, Italy and France
<alexm> it doesn't make sense a regional locoteam
<PabloRubianes> alexm: we don't have teams by language
<costales> alexm, will make sense a locale team?
<SergioMeneses> that is a huge problem!
<wagafo> One of the main points of the Catalan teeam is to have free software in Catalan, it doesn't make any sense to be within another language, and this said from somebody like myself who is originally Spanish speaker (Uruguay born)
<PabloRubianes> if not latin america should be one team
<alexm> PabloRubianes: yes you have, and it was approved several years ago, it's us
<jose> I repeat, as the *current* rules state (you can check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamRegions to be *even more* specific), "Each team should cover a full country"
<PabloRubianes> alexm: catalan team is form cataluÃ±a
<PabloRubianes> no catalan the language
<alexm> no way
<rafael_carreras> PabloRubianes: that's not true
<wagafo> In a lot of senses the Catalan speaking regions are a country, you should have a broader view, unless Ubuntu becomes partisan on this
<cubells> PabloRubianes: ah! you don't understand anything
<alexm> it's for us to decide and we don't want to be a regional team
<cubells> PabloRubianes: I'm valencian
<josepgallart> http://blocs.gencat.cat/blocs/AppPHP/eapc-rld/files/2014/04/Mapa-dialectes-catal%C3%A02.jpg
<costales> this will be an interesting point about the "belonging" of a tem (the art of community of Jono Bacon)
<jose> again, we're not talking about languages, we're talking about countries
<cubells> PabloRubianes: I'm not from catalunya
<costales> Una y grande jose
<jose> LoCo Teams are for countries
<costales> change the rules then
<jose> you better than everyone should understand how this works, costales.
<wagafo> For states or for countries?
<cubells> you are breaking a great community of ubuntu.
<jose> it's not a matter of 'just do it'
<costales> the Catalan Team did a really great work. Are we not recognized them???
<jose> costales: for the fourth consecutive time, read what I said a few lines above.
<costales> Jose: then unify USA
<jose> have you read the rules?
<costales> yes, I did
<costales> I don't agree with them
<costales> about this point
<PabloRubianes> costales: but are the rules
<jose> do you know how the LoCo Council works? because as far as I know you're a LoCo Council member, and we *all* know things have to be discussed
<costales> It is unfair
<PabloRubianes> you have to change them before all this
<jose> we're a team, not a single person trying to enforce things
<costales> I'm telling my position
<costales> as you
<jose> then please try to calm down a bit :)
<costales> my *personal* position
<jose> you're sounding a bit... aggresive
<costales> no :)
<costales> sorry
<jose> PabloRubianes, SergioMeneses: anything else to ask/say?
<jose> anyone else, any other points to raise?
<SergioMeneses> I want to invite these guys to join us in a talk about this case, maybe we can re-check some points that now are not too clear - imho -
<rafael_carreras> as you wish
<wagafo> These guys are really depressed, this Saturday we had a great release party, no I think frustrated
<SergioMeneses> dont feel sad or mad about this, it is not the end of the world. We are here to help you guys but try to get our point of view as well
<SergioMeneses> wagafo, I know but take this like the first step, we need more information in a complete context to get a good answer to you guys
<SergioMeneses> it is more than +1 or -1
<jose> as of now there's nothing we can instantly do
<alexm> you should read the catalan team approval meeting minutes: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/05/15/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t03:51
<rafael_carreras> thank you alexm
<costales> thanks alexm. We'll do!
<jose> anything else to say?
<jose> otherwise we can go ahead and end the meeting
<SergioMeneses> I tell you something,  guys send us an email to our mailing list a we might work there! and try to find the best way for all us!
<SergioMeneses> what do you say?
<costales> SergioMeneses, what about ast and gl too?
<rafael_carreras> ok, I'll send an email
<costales> and es-es
<jose> costales: off-topic for this meeting's agenda
<SergioMeneses> rafael_carreras, perfect!
<SergioMeneses> jose, ++
<SergioMeneses> I am done!
<rafael_carreras> jose: offtopic the topic you talked about today
<jose> rafael_carreras: pardon?
<rafael_carreras> the meeting said reverification
<rafael_carreras> only that
<jose> we did a vote and explained why we wouldn't proceed on voting for that at this point
<alexm> this meeting it's been a downer
<alexm> definitely not the best way to encourage building a community
<cubells> alexm: I agree with you
<josepgallart> +1 alexm
<costales> +1 alexm
<alexm> where rules matter more than people something's wrong
<jose> if you would like to take it from that point of view, go ahead, but we're taking it as a new start to see if we re-focus current rules
<lluisanunez> +1 alexm
<wagafo> I feel stupid having work so hard for last Saturday release party
<alexm> jose: maybe, but this meeting wasn't the right place nor the right time
<wagafo> Exactly, what's the point  of calling for re-verification and slamming a door in our faces?
<SergioMeneses> guys I understand your feelings but try to get our point too
<jose> I think discussing it/not discussing it at this point is not going to get us anywhere
<jose> we didn't call it, *YOU* guys did
<SergioMeneses> we want to do the thing right, just that
<jose> but anyways
<wagafo> do as you wish
<rafael_carreras> jose: we did call it because it was time to do it
<josepgallart> digueuli que per mi aquestes activitats quedan anulades:XX de novembre de 2014 Festa utÃ²pica  a un lloc encara per determinar. 19 de setembre:Xerrada UBUNTU per usuaris Xerrada: MigraciÃ³ a Libreofice al ajuntament de Caldes a carrec de Josep Gallart DLP 2014 a la Palma de CervellÃ³,http://www.konfraria.org/dlp2013/index.html 24 de maig de 2014: festa d'instalÂ·laciÃ³ al Centre Ateneu democrÃ tic i progressista in Caldes de Mon
<josepgallart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/Activitats
<wagafo> josepgallart is cancelling 4 activities he had in the coming weeks
<jose> so, as per council decision, this is not leading anywhere, so we're calling this the meeting
<jose> #endmeeting
<rafael_carreras> that was josepgallart telling that his activities have been cancelled
* JoseBot changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<JoseBot> Meeting ended Tue May 20 20:52:41 2014 UTC.
<JoseBot> Minutes:        http://people.ubuntu.com/~joseeantonior/Logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-05-20-20.07.moin.txt
<jose> I don't see any reason to, but you guys are the one handling the team
<cubells> literalment ens han tancat la porta en la cara...
<josepgallart> si ja no tenim equip de que parla??
<cubells> alucino pepinos!
<rafael_carreras> jose: apparently we are not a team anymore
<jose> rafael_carreras: and why is that?
<wagafo> The rules, you said, jose
<PabloRubianes> wagafo: we are not shutting the team
<SergioMeneses> rafael_carreras, wagafo dont be drastic!
<costales> rafael_carreras, tomorrow you'll expire
<rafael_carreras> because we are a regional thing or something like that
<costales> i'm so sorry
<wagafo> Well, we feel like that, don't send us the ballpens and such but do support the community
<lluisanunez> well, we are becoming unofficial after seven years of good activity!
<jose> I can not give you any more advice but to follow your personal judgement, and recommend a 24h cooldown period before continuing this discussion further.
<wagafo> Thanks jose, good adivse, but let's see what's left of the Catalan team after this
<jose> lluisanunez: there's no 'unofficial' teams
<jose> but anyways
<rafael_carreras> jose: well, not approved then
<jose> I need to get back to other stuff, laters everyone
<jose> rafael_carreras: approved isn't the term either :) verified as of now
<jose> o/
<rafael_carreras> bye
<costales> Good bye team
<lluisanunez> goodbye costales
<costales> my personal apologies
<rafael_carreras> thank yu jose, things were different when sabdfl approved us
<wagafo> thanks for the support costales
<rafael_carreras> yes, thanks costales
<costales> we'll working in the issue
<costales> I'm sure we'll find a solution
<costales> good night
<wagafo> Bye costales
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-21
<toddc> hi markthomas
<markthomas> hey, toddc
<Pendulum> Is everyone here for the 12:00 Regional Membership board meeting?
<wmack> +1
<toddc> +1
<IdleOne> o/
<jared> Evening Pendulum
<Pendulum> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Membership Board
<IdleOne> the bot is down
<Pendulum> bah :(
<Pendulum> okay, then
<Pendulum> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for May 21, 2014.
<Pendulum> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
<Pendulum> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will move them to an e-mail review and vote.
<Pendulum> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application.
<Pendulum> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<Pendulum> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<Pendulum> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers constitutes 50% +1 of members present, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<Pendulum> Please remember that only Ubuntu Membship Board members can vote. Especially since the bot is down, it's important that we don't have non-board members voting while we're voting
<Pendulum> Okay, wmack you're up! Please introduce yourself
<wmack> Please note, AlbertoSN has submitted his application before mine.
<IdleOne> He is not present, please continue :)
<wmack> So, if he is present, I will yield to him
<wmack> Thanks
<wmack> I'm Walter Mack, living in Chandler, AZ, US.
<wmack> I'm a member of the Ubuntu community since approximately 3 or 4 years.
<wmack> A member of the greater Linux community since approximately 15 years.
<wmack> My involvement with Linux, and Ubuntu in particular are motivated by:
<wmack> * my professional life
<wmack> * my desire to advance free and open software (free as in speech)
<wmack> With the Ubuntu community in particular, I am involved in the following ways:
<wmack> * active participant in the azloco IRC channel, where on average about 25-30 people are present. The main reason for me being there is to get and give advise
<wmack> * active in maintaining the cyber presence of the azloco team. This involves co-maintaining the web site (Drupal-based), and OwnCloud server, etc.
<wmack> * To the best of my available time, be an active member of the installfest, which is held twice a month. The purpose of this event is to promote Ubuntu/Linux by installing (or co-installing next to Windows) a Linux distribution and giving an introduction to using the desktop.
<wmack> * publishing some blog posts on http://azloco.org on projects when they might be of interest to the general public
<IdleOne> wmack: twice is a month is impressive. How many new installs would you say the az loco does on average?
<wmack> Since toddc is the principal organizer (and he is present on all of the install fests, I think it would be fair to have him answer that question
<wmack> toddc - want to chime in?
<toddc> normally 4-6 new installs plus another 4-5 returns for addl learning and update issues
<wmack> I am also attending whenever my time permits the events of the Phoenix Linux Users group.
<toddc> per event
<IdleOne> nice
<wmack> I am done with my presentation.
<IdleOne> thank you
<IdleOne> anybody else have any questions?
<IdleOne> jared, Pendulum Destine?
<jared> wmack: I'm reading over the mailing list archives, is that the usual communication method for the team?
<wmack> I would say the typical comm channel is #ubuntu-us-az on irc
<Guest9673> besides installfest, do you have any follow up events?
<wmack> The principal organizer for events is toddc. He should get the credit for them.
<wmack> I'm sure he will mention them in his presentation.
<IdleOne> We are looking for involvement, not necessarily organizing.
<jared> wmack: I notice a lot of the team meetings involve mainly a lot of links. Do you have any success converting the installations you perform into Arizona team members?
<wmack> I would say that we get new members maybe once or twice every month. Membership here means that people show up to follow-up events or appear in the IRC
<wmack> My involvement is primarily in the installfests and in the background tasks of getting the technology running.
<wmack> (better keeping the technology running)
<jared> wmack: sorry to be so slow, we're having to look around. One of the things with your application is it's pretty sparse on details and not linked to supporting evidence
<wmack> What sort of supporting evidence are you looking for?
<Guest9673> photos, archives?
<jared> wmack: generally with events and installfests there are links to event pages with photos, outlines of the events, etc.
<wmack> Off the top of my head I could point you to azloco.org. You should find a number of posts.
<jared> wmack: yep that's what I'm trawling now
<wmack> you might also want to look at azloco.org/~ircstats
<wmack> look for most often mentioned nicks, post counts, etc.
<Pendulum> wmack: I found 1-2 blog posts a month going back to March. Did I miss any?
<wmack> no, that's when I started posting.
<Pendulum> Also, more testimonials would help. They don't need to be from Ubuntu members, just anyone who can speak to your involvement
<wmack> I also post when I think it is something that is either hard to find somewhere else, or the information out there wans't working for me.
<jared> As an example, if http://azloco.org/node/166 had a follow up post with some photos of the event and you were able to explain what part you played in the event that would be really handy.
<wmack> The installfests I am attending are in the southern part of the PHX metro area. We typically don't take pictures.
<wmack> I'm not sure if markthomas or toddc want to comment on my involvement.
<wmack> I realize that there is little documented evidence out there.
<jared> wmack: okay so without pictures then perhaps some testimonials from community members that have been assisted really helps us. We're not trying to be difficult but we do have to be diligent to ensure we can see significant and sustained contributions.
<wmack> I understand.
<toddc> He attends every event and spends most of the day doing installs and updates and training new users or working on team projects
<toddc> our events are all day events
<jared> toddc: great, when did these start?
<toddc> the first was 12 years ago
<jared> toddc: ok, so how long has wmack been coming along to help?
<wmack> approx 2-3 years. however initially not too regularily
<toddc> almost three years to alsmost every event plus meeting on irc weekley
<markthomas> I've seen him at every event I've attended since I started in Jan, and regularly active in IRC. I don't have hard numbers.
<Pendulum> wmack: We're not going to vote on your application at this time. We'd like you to come back with an application showing more supporting information. I hope that some of our feedback has helped you get an idea of what would make it stronger. Do feel free to contact me if you want feedback/someone to review the application before you reapply. Thank you!
<wmack> Thank you.
<Pendulum> toddc: Okay, your turn. Please introduce yourself
<toddc> Hi my name is Todd Cole I have been azloco team leader for 5 years
<toddc> running 2-3 local installevents per month and weekly meetings
<toddc> and two ubuntu hours and always looking to start more events
<toddc> and to promote ubuntu I maintain the mailing lists and some team server projects
<toddc> and work in IRC to support and communicate to members and new users
<toddc> and often travel the state to support other lugs and host team servers ect
<toddc> since I became team leader the team has continued to grow and expand
<toddc> both in size, events, members and projects
<toddc>  that is my intro thank you
<jared> toddc: I like the page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Installfest/Intrepid-Tucson is there anything more recent?
<toddc> there have been severl events and we are starting another I have had several local members fall thru latley
<toddc> local contacts for Tucson events
<toddc> we are also working and hope to have another in several months at Prescott AZ
<Pendulum> toddc: as a general thing, if someone in your team could put together pages like that for events you do, it will definitely help AZ LoCo members with membership applications in the future. (especially if after the fact a list of members attending is added)
<Pendulum> toddc: It looks like much of the documented work you've done was prior to August 2013. Is there anything more recent you can show us?
<toddc> due to our active team size we have been trying to do more events but we may need to spend more time documenting what we do
<jared> toddc: registering events in loco.ubuntu.com also helps keep track easily
<IdleOne> updated docs are a pain to maintain, but like Pendulum said it would greatly help future applicants.
<toddc> our events and projects continue we have added team services like Own cloud in the ubuntu one gap
<jared> (Which I see you do, now that I went there to check)
<jared> I also notice most of the events and meetings are set up by you toddc, you should have linked to that :)
<jared> Pages like http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-arizona/2819-west-side-ubuntu-hour/ are perfect evidence, it makes life simple as it's all spelt out, the only improvement would be to upload some photos from each of the events to a team feeed
<wmack> toddc is by far the most active and dedicated team member. You should see his fingerprints everywhere.
<jared> wmack: you should ask toddc to share the load so you can show evidence for your involvement as well ;)(
<IdleOne> running them through our database as we speak :P
<jared> IdleOne: shush, that's a secret database
<Pendulum> and when you attend events, register to say you're attending!
<toddc> I do the paper work for the west side event and attend when I can we also have several special demo and installevents latley due to the xp EOL
<Pendulum> Okay, I think we're ready to vote.
<Pendulum> Please, the only voters should be myself, jared, IdleOne, and Destine
<Pendulum> Now voting on Todd Cole for Ubuntu Membership
<IdleOne> #voters Pendulum jared Destine IdleOne
<IdleOne> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<Destine> +1
<jared> +1 I'm glad we found the http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-arizona/ page and good to see you have other Ubuntu membership testimonials
<IdleOne> toddc: Congrats!
<Pendulum> okay, end of voting ;)
<Pendulum> toddc: Congrats and welcome!
<toddc> thank you very much
<Destine> toddc: congrats.
 * wmack applauding toddc
<jared> wmack: this is not to say you can't come back soon, just try and show some documentation to make it easy for us to see your involvement in the community.
<IdleOne> toddc: Please take the hints back to the team and help them to improve their applications.
<Pendulum> And I really am happy to look over applications :)
<jared> And even more so for "real world" LoCo events, photos are always winnders
<wmack> I understand - I plan on coming back
<jared> winnders*
<jared> For some reason I have an extra d I can't extract :/
<Pendulum> (before people apply, I mean ;) )
<toddc> will do it has been a while since we have had a new ubuntu member
<IdleOne> wmack: looking forward to it
<Pendulum> Okay, end of the meeting!
<jared> wmack: if you're at all unsure of your next application by all means send it to the mailing list for the membership board and we can have a look over it prior to a meeting.
<jared> toddc: can you pass that message on?
<toddc> yes no problem
<jared> toddc: cheers, just don't want him to think we aren't willing to help. It's more that we need to be able to see evidence clearly and easily without trawling through pages
<IdleOne> thank you AlanBell
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-22
<cjwatson> Hi folks
<mvo> hi
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<jodh> hi!
<cjwatson> Oh, no meetingology
<cjwatson> Oh well, let's pretend
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] lightning round
<cjwatson> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox caribou infinity mvo)
<cjwatson> infinity doko xnox slangasek mvo bdmurray caribou stgraber jodh cjwatson barry
<cjwatson> (I would include bhuey but he doesn't seem to be on IRC right now ...)
<cjwatson> infinity is off sick
<xnox> * I think lp:upstart/async is ready to merge/land into lp:upstart net
<xnox>   clean 1.1k lines addition. Works fine across desktop, server, lxc,
<xnox>   kvm machines, system & user init. Fully reviewed by me. Maybe a
<xnox>   holistic read is needed by someone?
<xnox> * Addressing review comments to enable insserv (and thus update-rc.d)
<xnox>   in ubuntu (which is needed for systemd support).
<xnox> * Land lightdm/plymouth systemd units.
<xnox> * Merge exim4, php5.
<xnox> ..
<xnox> Would like to discuss what a resonable testing plan is for enabling insserv by default? (install as many init services as possible and check that insserv conversion works?!)
<cjwatson> xnox: Do you want to do that in this meeting, or at Malta?
<xnox> cjwatson: can discuss that in Malta, will add to the document.
<cjwatson> Thanks
<cjwatson> mvo: slangasek is out for a bit, so go ahead?
<mvo> ok
<mvo> click:
<mvo>  - work with Colin on chroot features/fixes
<mvo>  - address code review issues
<mvo>  - click-unity-scope: work on #1292645 (libclick support)
<mvo>  - look at click for the desktop status and file bugs/create blueprint
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/platform-api/lp1320873-no-abort
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/unity-click-scope/documentation-tweaks
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/unity-scope-click/empty-frameworks-query
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/unity-scope-click/get-language-base-exceptions
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/unity-scope-click/lp1292645-use-libclick2
<mvo> hwe-eol:
<mvo>  - Work on detection script and add feedback from pmatulis
<mvo>  - Work with pmatulis on eol doc
<mvo> apt:
<mvo>  - Debug/fix issue with corrupted Translation-$foo files (bc1c9081)
<mvo>  - work on feature/by-hash for apt update robustness
<mvo>  - add basic SrvRecords support (hopefully makes cdn like feature possible)
<mvo> unity8-desktop-session-mir:
<mvo>  - use and report #1322116 (keyboard focus), #1322118 (hangs on vt switch), segfault #1322143
<mvo> update-manager:
<mvo>  - Make meta-release parser stricter (LP: #1310891)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310891 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "cached meta-release file should not be saved if it is html" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1310891
<mvo> misc:
<mvo>  - meta-release update for meta-release-{proposed,development}
<mvo>  - Review/sponsor ansible 1.6.1
<mvo>  - work on system-image-on-the-desktop drafting
<mvo>  - Review/merge lp:~brian-murray/unattended-upgrades/package-hook
<mvo>  - SRU for #1309369
<mvo>  - Convergence discussions/malta preparing
<mvo>  - Lp:~mvo/+junk/est-click
<mvo> (done)
<bdmurray_> ping webops about issue with daisy and connection to cassandra
<bdmurray_> worked on debugging an error with the daisy frontends / cassandra with thedac
<bdmurray_> worked with thedac regarding cassandra and removed data (is it really gone?)
<bdmurray_> updated daisy to reject Quantal crashes and temporarily stop accepting suspend resume crashes
<bdmurray_> updated daisy submit.py to only stop accepting checkresume bugs from the bad version of apport
<bdmurray> fixed errors bug 1320174 regarding frequency table errors for multi period queries
<ubottu> bug 1320174 in Errors ""Frequency" shows fewer occurrences for all releases than for one release" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320174
<bdmurray> fixed errors bug 1167238 regarding redirection to $user
<ubottu> bug 1167238 in Errors "Signed in, going to https://errors.ubuntu.com/ redirects to another URL" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167238
<bdmurray> fixed errors bug 1201396 regarding date range url sharing
<ubottu> bug 1201396 in Errors "Date range URL doesn't actually work" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201396
<bdmurray> fixed errors bug 1061041 regarding create bug link on problem page
<ubottu> bug 1061041 in Errors "The 'create' link should appear on the problem pages as well" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061041
<bdmurray> research into and fixed errors problem missing a Stacktrace - LP: #1321386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1321386 in Daisy "retrace writes crash reports to the stacktrace column family that have no stacktrace" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321386
<bdmurray> research into bug 1318034 regarding retrace failures
<bdmurray> built new ubuntu assets
<bdmurray> crash report testing on nexus 4
<bdmurray> reported whoopsie bug 1320973, bug 1320988
<bdmurray> added a comment to whoopsie to log when on a paid connection
<ubottu> bug 1318034 in Daisy "indicator-sound crashes frequently fail to retrace" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318034
<ubottu> bug 1320973 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "it should be possible to override the is_paid_data_plan check" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320973
<ubottu> bug 1320988 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie did not become on-line after connecting to wifi" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320988
 * caribou waves at the crown and beg for forgiveness for being late
<bdmurray> investigation into duplicate signature creation failure for suspend resume bug reports
<bdmurray> fixed apportcheckresume duplicate signature creation failure (too generic)
<bdmurray> uploaded trusty, utopic fix for apport bug 1316841
<ubottu> bug 1316841 in Daisy "apportcheckresume does not create a duplicate signature" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1316841
<bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1316841
<bdmurray> updated meta-release files to show that quantal is unsupported / EoL
<bdmurray> reported whoopsie bug 1320332 regarding mythbuntu and whoopsie
<ubottu> bug 1320332 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie is always offline on a mythbuntu 14.04 install" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320332
<bdmurray> â done
<cjwatson> caribou: You're just in time for your turn :)
<caribou> cjwatson: that will be quick:
<caribou> * Continue work on adding remote kernel dump functionality to Debian/Ubuntu.
<caribou> * Misc openstack charms fixes
<caribou> done
<cjwatson> heh, ok
<caribou> oh, and one localization issue with grub that's showing up on the radar
<caribou> but need to reproduce first
<caribou> (really done)
<cjwatson> stgraber:
<cjwatson> Oh, he's on leave isn't he
<cjwatson> jodh:
<jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
<jodh>   - cgroup+async support:
<jodh>     - Working with xnox to disect my async branch into lp:upstart/async.
<jodh>     - Re-worked the cgroup branch to merge into lp:ubuntu/async
<jodh>       (lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/cgroups-mergeable-with-upstart-async).
<jodh>     - Lots of manual boot testing.
<jodh>     - Created daily PPA builds for
<jodh>       lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/upstart-async-with-cgroup-merge and
<jodh>       lp:upstart/async. Trying to get the tests passing atm...
<jodh> * upstart:
<jodh>   - Added '--prepend-confdir' and new tests to
<jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1315060. MP awaiting review.
<jodh> * misc:
<jodh>   - Wrote a job for testing that a system boots 'n' times:
<jodh>     http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/conf/rebooter.conf
<jodh>   - Wrote a job to check for kernel oopses:
<jodh>     http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/conf/check-for-kernel-oops.conf
<jodh>     (apport should really do this)
<jodh>   - Wrote a job to look for cpu hogs (as a result of a number of recent
<jodh>     utopic "spinners"):
<jodh>     http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/upstart/conf/find-cpu-hogs.conf
<jodh>     (makes use of http://people.canonical.com/~jhunt/scripts/find_cpu_hogs.sh)
<jodh>   - Short week as out Monday and out tomorrow.
<jodh>   - On holiday next week.
<jodh> ï¿¼
<cjwatson> livefs in LP:
<cjwatson>  - Fixed builds against -proposed.  Noticed and fixed livecd-rootfs bug with python3-autopilot transition as a result of this.
<cjwatson>  - Got builds against a PPA working.
<cjwatson>  - Shelved the rest of this until William has a chance to catch up on reviews, as I have more than enough queued for now.
<cjwatson> click:
<cjwatson>  - Caught up on most of my pending reviews of Michael's branches.
<cjwatson>  - Did the second half of fixing x86 chroot creation (bug 1319153).
<ubottu> bug 1319153 in click (Ubuntu) "Fails to create x86 chroot" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1319153
<cjwatson>  - Organised a landing.
<cjwatson> Reviewed and uploaded patches for higher-resolution GRUB terminals in precise (bug 1297128).
<ubottu> bug 1297128 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "Backport patches to support high resolution for grub terminal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297128
<cjwatson> Submitted LP branch to parallelise germinate across architectures, saving about two minutes off the end of each publisher run.  (Wasted several hours failing to get multiprocessing.Pool to work; ended up doing it by hand.)
<cjwatson> Started on RTM image building slides for Malta.
<cjwatson> ..
<cjwatson> barry: did you make it back?
<barry> cjwatson: i did.  horrible traffic.
<barry> my turn i guess :)
<barry> phone: LP: #1286542.  debugging udm regressions: LP: #1320306 and LP: #1320987.  dialer-app py3 port.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286542 in Ubuntu system image "keyring DuplicateDestinationError when updating from custom s-i server" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286542
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320306 in ubuntu-download-manager "udm immediately sends a 'canceled' signal" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320306
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320987 in ubuntu-download-manager "DBus API regression -- cannot exit" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320987
<barry> debuntu: debian bug 732703 (ensurepip) - design complete and consensus reached;  team uploads in NEW; bugs/patches filed; now we wait.  chardet 2.2.1-2, html5lib 0.999-3, pip 1.5.5-1, urllib3 2.2.1-2, debian bug #748299.  debian python policy updated for wheels.  MIA report for python-colorama.  core-cov 1.12-1, nose2-cov 1.0a4-1, enum34 1.0-1, webob 1.4-1, singledispatch 3.40.3-1.  working with cjwatson on six.
<ubottu> Debian bug 732703 in python3.4 "python3.4: cannot create a virtualenv" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/732703
<ubottu> Debian bug 748299 in python-setuptools "python-setuptools: Build universal wheels to support pyvenv" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/748299
<barry> other: packaging review for thomir
<barry> done
<cjwatson> I'll reply to you on six tomorrow - I'm going to lie down in a darkened room right after this meeting, as rotten headache
<barry> cjwatson: darn -- feel better and no worries
<mvo> get well
<cjwatson> yeah, I don't think it's infectious from the feel of it, fortunately :)
<cjwatson> oh, that's the end of the list, sorry, attention
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Malta reminder
<cjwatson> Just to remind sprint attendees again to have a look at https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/Sprints/ClientSprint-May2014/Foundations and make sure anything substantial you plan to do, or that you need to coordinate with others on, is there
<cjwatson> that's all
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<cjwatson> anything else before we reconvene next week?
<xnox> well, in two weeks =)
<caribou> enjoy your time in Malta !
<cjwatson> xnox: I meant in person, for those who will be there :)
<xnox> cjwatson: =)
<cjwatson> caribou: thanks, I gather it's beautiful, hopefully we'll see some of it
<xnox> ok.
<cjwatson> OK, I guess that's all, see most of you next week :)
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<caribou> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<mvo> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-05-23
<belkinsa> #startmeeting Ubuntu Scientists
<belkinsa> Er, the meetingbot is gone.
<belkinsa> Anyways, who is for the Ubuntu Scientists meeting?
<Aleo> Me - Alejandro
 * balachmar raises hand
<belkinsa> #chair belkinsa
<belkinsa> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Meetings/Agenda/05232014
<belkinsa> Anyone else?
<belkinsa> Okay, let's start...
<belkinsa> #topic Set up monthly meetings
<belkinsa> First of all, are too young as team for having monthly meetings?
<balachmar> is that a question, or a statement? :)
<belkinsa> Even though monthly meetings creates a better focus for the team.
<Aleo> I think it is better to have monthly meetings
<belkinsa> Question, and I meant are we too*
<balachmar> Monthly meetings are a good idea I think
<balachmar> It is not too often, so it doesn't consume a lot of time
<belkinsa> Right, meetings should be under an hour.
<balachmar> +1 :)
<belkinsa> Should we do this time and the last Friday of the month?  Or something else?
<Aleo> I think that maybe the time for meeting we can change
<Aleo> I made mistake in calculation, so I am at 4:00 (am).
<balachmar> For me this is a good time, but depending on the other participants, we might need to rotate times or something
<belkinsa> What you have in mind?
<Aleo> For me earlier or later is ok.   Last friday of the month is ok for me
<balachmar> thursdays work a little better for me, but I can do fridays as well
<belkinsa> Alright.   I will do a call on the mailing-list on a better time/day.
<belkinsa> #action belkinsa Make a call on mailing-list about monthly meeting time/day
<balachmar> sure, and if times vary a lot, rotating could help
<Aleo> If possible let's work on UTC time from the beginning, so it is easier to calculate
<balachmar> sure times need to be communicated in utc
<belkinsa> Sorry about that, it was Doodle's fault when I shut off the timezone setting.
<belkinsa> And I will ask about rotating the times/days.
<balachmar> no worries
<Aleo> no prob
<belkinsa> Are we ready to move on?
<balachmar> yep
<Aleo> yes
<belkinsa> #topic vUDS Prep
<belkinsa> Again, is this needed for the team or not?
<belkinsa> Also, I was asked to be a track lead.
<belkinsa> So, I think I can do another track.
<balachmar> I am not sure, never attended a vUDS
<balachmar> They are normally during my work hours...
<belkinsa> vUDS is June 10 to June 12.  Times for the tracks are unknown at this moment.
<belkinsa> vUDS's seem to be for many.
<belkinsa> balachmar ^^^
<Aleo> What type of activity or role do we have for vUDS? that would be different from normal meetings?
<belkinsa> Tracks are splints that are planning for the cycle (14.10 for example) and blueprints are created with those goals and the monthly meetings we work on them.
<balachmar> Would you like to use a vUDS to draw more attention to this?
<balachmar> Because we can make blueprints without a vUDS as well
<belkinsa> It would be a use and maybe we could get help from the outside world (the rest of the COmmunity)
<Aleo> We can try to participate on the next vUDS, but again the time of the meetings would be a concern.
<belkinsa> That can work.
<Aleo> They are to be held on Tue ~ Thu.
<balachmar> But we need not all be present at a vUDS
<balachmar> just a "delegation" with some prepared work
<belkinsa> Not all.  The lead and the ones who want to join in either in G+ Hangouts or just plain old IRC.
<balachmar> I would at least do some preparation together to make sure there is some concensus
<belkinsa> +1
<Aleo> Yes, I think that would be good.
<belkinsa> Do you want to take that action item, balachmar, on mailing the list about the prep and working up a blueprint draft?
<balachmar> belkinsa, to be honest I am a bit short on time at the moment...
<belkinsa> Okay, I can take it if you don't mind.
<balachmar> I don't mind
<balachmar> I will try to pitch in as much as possible
<belkinsa> #action belkinsa Work on vUDS Prep and mail the mailing-list
<belkinsa> I understand.
<belkinsa> Ready to move on?
<balachmar> yep
<Aleo> Yes
<belkinsa> #topic Discussion of team's goals
<belkinsa> #https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-scientists/+spec/goals
<belkinsa> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-scientists/+spec/goals
<belkinsa> I believe this was yours, balachmar.  Want to talk about them, if you have anything else to add?
<balachmar> By the way, I am just reading about the meetingology, pretty cool :)
<belkinsa> It is.
<balachmar> Well, I just wanted to find out what the goal(s) of the group would be
<belkinsa> But there seem to be missing bot issues around the Community.
<balachmar> Because the initial description was a bit vague, and could be interpreted as any one of those
<belkinsa> I think they are good ones.
<belkinsa> I think I know who we can contact for that fourth item.
<balachmar> But I do think we should try to pick one or two of them to start with (I would actually propose one)
<belkinsa> +1
<balachmar> And then work one that goal, until we have something good for that and then pick another.
<belkinsa> I like this idea.
<belkinsa> Aleo, what do you think?
<balachmar> But in the OSS mentality, obviously if someone comes in with a real passion for any of those items (s)he is free to pursue
<belkinsa> Indeed.
<Aleo> Yes, I was also thinking similarly, about separating in groups to handle them.   But we are lacking in manpower
<balachmar> Aleo, that is why at the moment we should just pick one and go for that one
<Aleo> so as balachmar proposes it should be better to handle one at a time.
<balachmar> 2 and 3 are very difficult and long term
<belkinsa> 4 may have some leads that are outside the Ubuntu Community that I can contact.
<balachmar> It seems that belkinsa already has an idea for at least one success story
<Aleo> Ok, I would like to add one more more.
<Aleo> sorry to ask one more
<belkinsa> Go ahead.
<Aleo> This blueprint page can be edited by anyone, correct?
<belkinsa> Correct.
<Aleo> No need to be a member of the group, correct?
<belkinsa> I believe so.
<balachmar> I think you need to be part of the group
<Aleo> Ok, that was it.   Most of the wiki/documentation is public, so I was wondering if we needed a special "privilege" to edit the documentation.
<Aleo> Anyway, let's work on No. 1 then.
<belkinsa> Anyone can edit the wiki.
<belkinsa> You need a LP and a Ubuntu SSO account.
<belkinsa> If you need help, you can aways ask in #ubuntu-doc or e-mail the doc team's mailing-list.
<balachmar> So, for goal#1, there already exists http://www.osalt.com/ etc
<balachmar> But I think it is useful if we would start a wiki or something to group tools/software into categories that are geared towards scientists
<belkinsa> I was too and I know that Ubuntu Community Help Wiki has that page on software.
<belkinsa> (Switching topics since we are talking about it)
<belkinsa> #topic Discussion of what should be on our Wiki Team Pages.
<belkinsa> #topic Discussion of what should be on our Wiki Team Pages
<belkinsa> Maybe we can link that page somewhere on our team pages
<Aleo> Is this different from blueprints page?
<belkinsa> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/
<belkinsa> Yes, it's our wiki stuff.
<Aleo> Ok, thank you
<belkinsa> It's where we have the resources to help people.  And bookkeeping.
<Aleo> So, let's start by introducing the team goals
<balachmar> ok, so I think there we should have an overview of what we did
<belkinsa> Sure.
<balachmar> So indeed start with the goals we identified, but clearly mention the goals we currently focus on
<belkinsa> Alright, should this be on the homepage (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/) or another page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Goals)?
<balachmar> Then maybe also a small snipper about the people currently involved
<belkinsa> We could.
<Aleo> Maybe in the same
<balachmar> I think at the home page, it is the first thing I would want to know
<Aleo> For starters
<balachmar> snipper = snippets obviously
<belkinsa> Okay, I was thinking that to but I still wanted to ask.
<balachmar> And for one of the success stories a small excerpt
<belkinsa> #action belkinsa Contact Open Science to see if there is some success stories
<belkinsa> Okay, and then we can have a large page with other stories.
<balachmar> ok, so what differentiates us from Open Science?
<balachmar> brb
<belkinsa> We are of the Ubuntu and it's favours Community and they are a mix of Dirstos and other things
<belkinsa> What I meant was that we are Ubuntu and it's favours users and we are within this Community and I think we can make some impact.
<Aleo> To be clear open science is openscience.org?
<belkinsa> Yes.
<Aleo> ok, thank you
<belkinsa> Wait, no, I meant them: http://opensciencefederation.com/
<belkinsa> But I can look at them.
 * balachmar is back
<belkinsa> Just like Ubuntu Women (sorry, I had to go back on what I said before).
<balachmar> ok, sure then I get it
<balachmar> I thought that open science was also a group within ubuntu space
<belkinsa> Ah.
<Aleo> yes, me too
<balachmar> I have no problem with having a similar theme specific to ubuntu
<balachmar> as long as we try to communicate well with other initiatives
<balachmar> no need to do double work
<belkinsa> +1
<Aleo> ok, so the large page, that belkinsa mentioned is part of the wiki?
<belkinsa> Yes.  Something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Stories
<balachmar> For example with FLOSS alternatives, I think it might be useful to also state how widespread the use is.
<belkinsa> Also we need a page titled https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuScientists/Resources
<Aleo> I propose something
<belkinsa> balachmar, we should.
<belkinsa> Aleo, go a head.
<belkinsa> ahead*
<balachmar> For example, I work in data analysis/statistics, and there are quite a few closed source packages, but R for instance is very wide spread. Also used in industry a lot.
<balachmar> Aleo, go ahead
<Aleo> Since belkinsa mentioned the project.   So, for starters why don't we copy the structure of the Ubuntu Wome's wiki page and use it as the base for our wiki page
<Aleo> This is.  Project, Whois, Meetings and events, Projects, Resources, Guidelines.
<belkinsa> We could but I think it's easily copyable.
<Aleo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
<belkinsa> Because they have their own wiki not on the Ubuntu Wiki.
<belkinsa> Oh, that page?
<Aleo> As a starting point
<belkinsa> I never know that existed!
<belkinsa> knew*
<balachmar> yep, the shois section would be useful indeed
<belkinsa> I like that idea, Aleo.
<balachmar> me too
<Aleo> I have never edited an Ubuntu wiki, but I can volunteer to try
<belkinsa> Sure, I can help you, Aleo.
 * belkinsa is a part of the Doc Team
<belkinsa> Correction, is the driver for the Wiki Sub-team.
<belkinsa> Aleo, do you want to do this in a sandbox page first?
<Aleo> Sure
<belkinsa> Okay
<belkinsa> #action Aleo work out a wiki team page
<Aleo> I will ask if I cannot do.
<belkinsa> Alright.
<belkinsa> Are we set on this item?
<Aleo> If it is ok, let's set that as a goal/target for the month.
<belkinsa> Sure.
<Aleo> Yes
<belkinsa> #topic AOB
<balachmar> I have no other business :)
<belkinsa> Oh, I so misread that Aleo.
<belkinsa> But sure we can set that as ours.
<Aleo> what is AOB?
<balachmar> any other business
<belkinsa> Any Other Business.
<Aleo> ahhh
<Aleo> jaja, No more business
<belkinsa> Alright.  Ending meeting now
<belkinsa> #endmeeting
<balachmar> So I think we can/should steal the Whois part of the women, with profiles of the people involved and then interviews would be our success stories
<belkinsa> Thank you all for coming to the meeting.
<balachmar> sure, you are welcome
<belkinsa> balachmar, I like this idea.
<Aleo> Ok, noted
<balachmar> although the profiles could be a little more extensive then just a table, with this few people
<belkinsa> Yeah.
<belkinsa> But we can do something else.
<balachmar> I would then also include a short bio, which might allows them to make a more educated choice on who to contact
<balachmar> but that will grow over time
<belkinsa> I hope it does.
<balachmar> mmm, for some reason the wiki is having troubles logging me in using my u1 account...
<belkinsa> You need a LP account and we need to move this over to our channel
<balachmar> ok, sure
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-18
<tyhicks> hello
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 18 16:38:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> sorry
<jdstrand> so, this week I am working on planning out our work
<jdstrand> I finished up the libseccomp SRU and it is just waiting for the week to pass
<jdstrand> I need to get back to seccomp policy updates on snappy and review tools work
<jdstrand> I'm also working on getting core and touch security support nailed down, so then we can define our processes, update tools, etc
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<tyhicks> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm on cve triage this week.
<sbeattie> The rsyslog trusty SRU I did was released to trusty-updates.
<sbeattie> My wily apparmor upload is still waiting to migrate from wily-proposed but is blocked on bogus test failures in other packages. I made
<sbeattie>  a query in #ubuntu-release but got no response.
<sbeattie> I've finished the paperwork for the trusty apparmor SRU, I just need to bug someone to copy it over from the security-proposed ppa to the trusty-proposed queue.
<sbeattie> someone == jdstrand :)
<sbeattie> I have some upstream apparmor patches to review for an impending 2.10 release, which is needed for the planned systemd apparmor integration.
<sbeattie> I think I can finally get back the gcc-pie work this week
<sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me. tyhicks: you're up.
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
<tyhicks> I have more to do around team work planning
<tyhicks> add kernel keyring mediation support to AppArmor parser
<tyhicks> revive patch security updates
<tyhicks> Send proposed fix for bug #1427264 to upstream schroot
<ubottu> bug 1427264 in schroot (Ubuntu) "using ecryptfs, creating frameworks fail to bind mount issues" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427264
<tyhicks> Come up with a fix for bug #1438942
<ubottu> bug 1438942 in schroot (Ubuntu) "Host's /dev/shm is mounted over when entering 14.10 and older sbuild schroots" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1438942
<jdstrand> sbeattie: 2.8.95~2430-0ubuntu5.2 to trusty-proposed?
<tyhicks> embargoed issue
<sbeattie> jdstrand: yes, indeed.
<jdstrand> sbeattie: done
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> well I have the next round of kernel security sign-offs to finish up this morning
<jjohansen> I have my patchset for upstream that I didn't quite finish up with last week to finish off with
<jjohansen> and then its back to rest of the cleanup, for upstreaming
<jjohansen> oh and I will be synching up on the dconf work, I'm not sure what is there but there will be some time on that
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you're up
<sarnold> I'm on community this week; there's still some outstanding sync matches in d2u. I don't think I'll try tackling any of the merge matches this week though.
<sarnold> I'll also be working on tracking down our current status with openstack CVEs, some are silently fixed by server-team updates along the way, some are still outstanding.
<sarnold> I may also sneak in an apparmor patch review or two for variety.
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I'm just doing the thunderbird publication, which is my only planned update for this week \o/
<tyhicks> nice :)
<chrisccoulson> I got through some reviews last week. I plan to get https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/oxide/context-menu/+merge/257351 done and also look at the branches that have been updated since I commented on them
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through whatever I can get done on https://launchpad.net/oxide/+milestone/branch-1.8
<chrisccoulson> I think that's me done
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/autojump.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ganeti.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/davfs2.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libtar.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rawtherapee.html
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 18 17:03:57 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-18-16.38.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-19
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 19 17:00:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<apw> o/
<cking> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<ppisati> o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> The master-next branch of our wily kernel has recently been rebased to
<ogasawara> the 4.0.4 stable kernel.  We're in the processing of parsing results of
<ogasawara> initial DKMS testing against wily.  We'll upload to the archive once we
<ogasawara> have this sorted.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule (Currently a WIP)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/Utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   * Precise - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Trusty - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Utopic - Testing & Verification
<bjf>   *  Vivid  - Testing & Verification
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 02-May through 23-May
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          01-May   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 03-May - 09-May   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 10-May - 23-May   Bug verification; Regression testing; Release
<bjf>  
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 19 17:03:45 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-19-17.00.moin.txt
<cking> thanks jsalisbury
<apw> jsalisbury, thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-20
<DS-McGuire> Hello all, I hope I wasn't too late adding my name to the list for this meeting!
<czajkowski> DS-McGuire: which meeting ?
<DS-McGuire> czajkowski, The next 12:00 UTC meeting at Wednesday, May 20th, 2015 at 12:00:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net.
<DS-McGuire> For the Ubuntu membership board
<popey> so in 1.5 hours
<DS-McGuire> popey, Yeah, I know there was a time limit of some sort when adding your name to the list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<popey> there was?
<popey> we have had people add their name at the last minute before, you're fine.
<DS-McGuire> popey, Oh, great to know! haha!
<DS-McGuire> Are we almost ready?
<DS-McGuire> popey, Any idea who is suppose to be here for the meeting?
<DS-McGuire> elfy, I think the meeting has been forgotten.
<elfy> DS-McGuire: looks like
<ki7mt> HI elfy
<elfy> hi ki7mt
<elfy> not much I can do other than apologise I'm afraid
<elfy> !mb-ping
<elfy> heh
<DS-McGuire> elfy, Who are we waiting for?
<elfy> you're waiting for the Membership Board
<dholbach> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-membership-board/+members#active
<DS-McGuire> Okay :)
<dholbach> wxl, PabloRubianes, ^ do you know?
<dholbach> hggdh, ^
<Kilos> hi dholbach  sorry for missing the meeting
<dholbach> Kilos, I don't know... can we organise the others?
<dholbach> Kilos, AFAICT it was DS-McGuire and ki7mt who were here for the application
<Kilos> let me see who i can find
<elfy> thanks Kilos
<Kilos> im sorry guys,
<Kilos> DS-McGuire  ki7mt  I apologise
<DS-McGuire> Kilos, It's okay :)
<popey> sorry, was afk at lunch.
<ki7mt> No worries, it's happens. Should we put our names down for the next meeting time ?
<Kilos> where are you 2 guys?
<popey> next meeting is 1st thursday at 22:00
<popey> which is 2 weeks tomorrow.
<ki7mt> I am in Montana
<DS-McGuire> I am in the UK
<ki7mt> How many board members must be present to conduct the meeting ?
<Kilos> 4
<Kilos> minimum
<DS-McGuire> How many are here?
<Kilos> 2 i think
<DS-McGuire> That's disappointing :(
<Kilos> sorry, this caught me unawares
<ki7mt> I'm surprised how many of the council and board member nicks Im familiar with. I didn't know they were all on the boards.
<Kilos> DS-McGuire  ki7mt  will you please forgive us all, and add your names to the next meeting
<ki7mt> Kilos, It's all good. Will see you at the next meeting.
<Kilos> ty very much
<DS-McGuire> Kilos, I will add my name to the next one.
<Kilos> seems guys didnt have their calenders updated
<Kilos> thanks DS-McGuire
<DS-McGuire> Kilos, np
<popey> Everyone should add http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/ to their calendars.
<popey> The Membership board meetings are on that calendar.
<Kilos> ty popey  ill do that now, last meet belkinsa and some others reminded me
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-21
<Kilos> hi elfy  and everyone else
<sil2100> o/
<caribou> o/
<robru> hi
<chiluk> o/
<cyphermox> hello!
<barry> i guess slangasek is still stuck in his meeting?
 * slangasek waves
<jodh> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 15:05:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lighting round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lighting round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
<slangasek> cyphermox infinity bdmurray stgraber sil2100 caribou mvo doko barry jodh slangasek robru
<cyphermox> I win!
<cyphermox>  * moar grub2 triage
<cyphermox>  * discussions with Tony on how to deal with NM>ofono bugs.
<cyphermox>  * discussion on versioning for NM with phone overlay
<cyphermox>  * debugging NM routing bug; almost done (still has an extra no-metric network route)
<cyphermox>  * Monday was a national holiday
<cyphermox>  * grub2 cherry-picks (in debian git)
<cyphermox>    * Fix handling of --disk-module option (debian 746596, bug 1309735)
<cyphermox>    * Fix double-free of LV names for mdraid (bug 1330963)
<ubottu> Debian bug 746596 in grub2-common "grub-install --disk-module option is referenced in the help, but no longer works" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/746596
<cyphermox>  * debug grub2-signed chaining when multiple bootable media are available (bug 1097570)
<ubottu> bug 1309735 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "The "--disk-module=MODULE" option of "grub-install" works wrong in Grub 2.02~beta2-9" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309735
<ubottu> bug 1330963 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub-probe: double free or corruption in some rare cases" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330963
<ubottu> bug 1097570 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "grub2-signed can not find the right device when there are two filesystems containing the file '.disk/info'." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1097570
<cyphermox>  * considering merging tzsetup:
<cyphermox>    - looked at it, reviewed server oem setup
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> no infinity?
<slangasek> bdmurray:
<bdmurray> modified errors to reduce number of releases shown in legend so we can see more of it
<bdmurray> modified daisy to log more information when encountering a MaximumRetryException
<bdmurray> call regarding assets.ubuntu.com and errors.u.c use of it
<bdmurray> worked with pitti / jibel regarding autopkg tests for utopic being in progress
<bdmurray> worked on launchpad ddeb grabbing in apport
<bdmurray> talked to ci about boottest failures for vivid and proposed-migration
<bdmurray> tested whoopsie on wily live cd
<bdmurray> investigation into python-pip - LP: #1324391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1324391 in python-pip (Ubuntu Trusty) "pip 1.5.4 import an invalid dependencies " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324391
<bdmurray> overrode python-pip regressions for phased updater
<bdmurray> â done
<sil2100> No stgraber?
<caribou> ODS I suppose ?
<stgraber> sorry, around
<sil2100> o/
<stgraber> I've been doing LXD stuff all this time, well, that and sprinting and vacation.
<stgraber> (done)
<sil2100> \o/
<sil2100> This week more or less:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Created a list of channels as per the new channel rearrangements
<sil2100> - Synced the new info to the developer.ubuntu.com channel webpage
<sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
<sil2100> - Preparations for OTA-4
<sil2100> - Updating various parts of the landing documentation
<sil2100> - CI Train development:
<sil2100>   * Fixed syncing code to work for the new landing schemas
<sil2100>   * Started poking on possible dual-landing approaches
<sil2100> - System-image server:
<sil2100>   * Helped Barry with the system-image server .es alias/redirect madness
<sil2100>   * Picked up dropped branch for keep-orphaned
<sil2100> - Updated landing tracker scripts to stop caring about RTM
<sil2100> - Work on enabling commitlogs once again - not finished yet
<sil2100> - Setup William's script to auto-close RTM bugs on overlay uploads
<sil2100> - Added modifications to the script above to e-mail changes for uploads (like to MLs)
<sil2100> - Sent out bi-monthly status update to Alan for the EOW podcast
<sil2100> (done)
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou>  - Squid deb proxy startup race condition (Bug: 1456662)
<ubottu> bug 1456662 in squid-deb-proxy (Ubuntu Trusty) "squid-deb-proxy fails to resolve dns entry : needs to be restarted" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456662
<caribou>   * Found tentative solution with mvo's help. Need to talk to maas
<caribou>      before SRU
<caribou>  - kdump startup issues with runlevel S
<caribou>   * CEPH startup seems to be the culprit. Still starts even before
<caribou>      runlevel is issued
<caribou>  - makedumpfile kernel support
<caribou>    * Investigate "unsupported
<caribou> kernel" messages
<caribou> (done)
<slangasek> and no mvo, so doko:
<slangasek> we'll come back to doko
<slangasek> barry:
<barry> si: LP: #1455119; LP: #1455077; LP: #1454447; si client 3.0 (finally!) landed in wily; convert si client vcs to git
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1455119 in Ubuntu system image "'copy-image' resulted in an image embedding the wrong channel name" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455119
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1455077 could not be found
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1454447 in Ubuntu system image "/etc/system-image/config.d created with too restricted permissions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1454447
<barry> debuntu: python-lockfile sponsorship; debian bug #785242; debian bug #785059; debian bug #785633 (still unresolved); python-cachecontrol 0.11.4-1; distlib packaging converted to git and moved to lp:~pythoneers (w/ 0.2.0-2 uploaded); DPMT git migration script work
<ubottu> Debian bug 785242 in wnpp "ITP: python-pluggy -- plugin and hook calling mechanism for python" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/785242
<ubottu> Debian bug 785059 in wnpp "ITP: python-cachecontrol -- a port of the caching algorithms in httplib2 for use with requests session object" [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/785059
<ubottu> Debian bug 785633 in schroot "schroot: union-type has broken" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/785633
<barry> other: bisect dist-upgrades and discovered wily regression in unity (LP: #1456761)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1456761 in unity (Ubuntu) "unity upgrade prevents full desktop after login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1456761
<barry> --done--
<jodh> * upstart
<jodh>   - Testing and process to get the fix for bug 1447756 landed for the
<ubottu> bug 1447756 in Canonical System Image "segfault in log.c code causes phone reboot loops" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447756
<jodh>     next touch OTA. Thanks to sil2100 for all his help!
<jodh> * snappy
<jodh>   - Improving tests for upgrader and selftest.
<jodh> * misc
<jodh>   - Out Monday-Wednesday next week.
<jodh> ???
<slangasek> is that an end marker? :)
<jodh> sorry, locale issues :)
<jodh> but yes, an end marker of sorts
<slangasek> haha, ok
<cyphermox> jodh: move on to ascii art.
<slangasek>  * phone work:
<jodh> cyphermox: :D
<slangasek>   * some work reviewing/shepherding bug #1447756
<slangasek>   * reconfiguring the phone channels per the proposed naming scheme earlier, to coincide with the move to wily
<ubottu> bug 1447756 in Canonical System Image "segfault in log.c code causes phone reboot loops" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447756
<slangasek>   * worked with ondra on a cache corruption bug #1455605 when a user downloads images from both public and private system-image servers
<ubottu> bug 1455605 in goget-ubuntu-touch (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-device-flash should verify signature in cache matches current keyring before flashing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1455605
<slangasek>   * will be rotating the signing key for system-images today
<slangasek>   * after that, have one more round of channel renames to finish, probably not today
<slangasek>  * off tomorrow and Monday for Memorial Day, back Tuesday
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> robru:
<robru> CI Train spreadsheet replacement:
<robru> * several iterations of the charm
<robru>   - configured for apache2 reverseproxy setup
<robru>   - setting up to launch gunicorn effectively
<robru>   - fixed a pile of runtime permission issues
<robru> * backported gunicorn3, python3-flask-openid, python3-openid to trusty-cat-ue
<robru> * lp:canonical-mojo-specs
<robru>   - tons of fiddly little work enabling and integrating new spreadsheet replacement charm
<robru> * various landings as usual
<robru> (done)
<sil2100> robru: bileto looking nice so far!
<robru> sil2100: thanks!
<slangasek> :)
<slangasek> alright
<slangasek> so no infinity doko or mvo showing up
<slangasek> any questions on the above?
<cyphermox> I assume bileto is the name for the new spreadsheet?
<robru> cyphermox: yep
<cyphermox> cool.
<sil2100> cyphermox: yes, since calling it 'spreadsheet replacement' all the time was really a bit sad ;)
<barry> robru: what's the eta for no-spreadsheet?
<barry> or is that bileto?
<robru> barry: tough to say. there's lots of little fiddly bits to iron out, and some other priorities just popped up. but Soon(TM)
<sil2100> barry: it's bileto, that's the codename alright
<slangasek> aha, an mvo!
<slangasek> mvo:
<mvo> did: vacation (yay), snappy work, little bit of apt work
<mvo> (done)
<barry> sil2100, robru we will have to pop some e-champagne on that day
<slangasek> :-)
<robru> barry: hell yes
<mvo> sorry guys, conflicting meeting :/
<slangasek> e-champagne?  how do you put champagne in an e-cigarette?
<barry> slangasek: well, i've heard they have this powered alcohol now
<robru> barry: it gives you quite the buzz
<barry> robru: git gives me all the buzz i need
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<sil2100> I say that instead of bileto what we really should do is implement our own google spreadsheet, and make our train spreadsheet working on that!
<barry> monday is a usa holiday; i'll be out
<bdmurray> as will I
<cyphermox> sil2100: nah, sharing odf's is easier.
<robru> sil2100: http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/twitchy.gif
<sil2100> Uh oh!
<doko> oops
<slangasek> doko: hi
<slangasek> want to update us?
<barry> robru: is that a screen share?
<slangasek> live video feed
<robru> barry: yeah I found a way to share google hangouts in irc
<doko> not much, basically openjdk-9 now in the archive, python3.5 in the archive, and still working on gcc-5
<barry> doko: py3.5 -- \o/
<sil2100> doko: any ETA on gcc-5?
<doko> sil2100, as default?
<sil2100> Yeah
<doko> sil2100, start fixing ftbfs ...
<sil2100> Since I saw uploads happening recently
<sil2100> hah, ok, so unknown for now
<sil2100> ;)
<doko> no, not yet, currently documenting things in https://wiki.debian.org/GCC5
<doko> but really, every fixed build failure would help
 * slangasek nods
<doko> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-5;users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<slangasek> doko: can you remind us the current list of GCC5 build failures?  I was looking for it the other day and the latest that turned up in my search was from February
<slangasek> doko: ah, maybe it's that :)
<sil2100> I would volunteer to help, but I don't want to declare myself without being sure to have time
<doko> slangasek, and see the two links at the bottom of the wiki package
<slangasek> ok
<sil2100> But I'll try to squeeze some cycles, wouldn't mind some C/C++ once in a while
<doko> and build logs for the ubuntu builds are at http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/test-rebuilds-20150402/
<slangasek> ok - anything else today?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 15:34:04 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-15.05.moin.txt
<slangasek> ok, thanks all!
<sil2100> o/
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks :)
<caribou> thanks !
<cyphermox> \o/
<mvo> thanks!
<mhall119> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 17:02:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council meeting | Current topic:
<mhall119> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<cprofitt> hello all
<elfy> o/
<mhall119> #chair czajkowski cprofitt elfy pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski elfy mhall119 pleia2
<mhall119> it seems I remember the meetingology commands
<elfy> always useful
<mhall119> we have nothing on our Agenda wiki for today
<mhall119> is there anybody around who has a topic they would like to discuss with the Community Council?
<elfy> ummm mhall119
<elfy> Forums Council 17:00UTC 21st May / Core Apps/Phone 17:30UTC 21st May
<elfy> that's today ;)
<popey> Yeah mhall119!
<mhall119> elfy: ah, that's down further on the page, sorry I didn't see it
<elfy> :D
 * popey rolls mhall119's mouse wheel a bit
<mhall119> #topic Forums Council check-in
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council meeting | Current topic: Forums Council check-in
<mhall119> anybody from the Forums Council here today?
<elfy> I went and found the hat especially ...
<cprofitt> popey: :-)
<popey> suits you
<elfy> only me mhall119 :)
<elfy> pretty much all's good
<mhall119> elfy: how has the forums activity been since the last checkin?
<mhall119> elfy: any specific events or activities to share?
<elfy> pretty much static month by month
<elfy> we've just finished trying to get people involved in nominating themselves for mod team
<mhall119> elfy: how successful was that?
<elfy> that's not gone well really, not sure what we're going to do about that
<elfy> pretty much the same as everywhere - hard to get people to want to 'leader' up
<mhall119> what did you do to attract people?
<elfy> threads - public and in the area members can see, blog post
<czajkowski> elfy: and in general have the the FC seen an increase in users or is it just static ?
<mhall119> elfy: how about directly asking people who you think would be a good mod if you can nominate them
<mhall119> ?
<elfy> czajkowski: mostly static - get increases at release time
<elfy> mhall119: that is an option open to us still - but we're trying to make it a bit more open
<mhall119> elfy: ack, but sometimes having a personal invite makes people more willing, we identified that in one of the UOS sessions earlier in the month
<elfy> yes - and that's the way the forum has done it for 10 years
<mhall119> ah, ok, so a public call is something new that's being tried?
<elfy> yea
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> elfy: any highlights or praises you'd like to give?
<elfy> well - not brand new, we tried a while back - same
<elfy> we're thinking on next steps
<elfy> we still get people applying for membership via us - that's still working
<cprofitt> elfy: what do you think might be causing people to now want to step up and be a moderator?
<cprofitt> not
 * mhall119 guesses inertia is the most likely cause
<elfy> cprofitt: not sure - could be the process, could be them seeing the 'troublesome' ones
<elfy> and that mhall119
<elfy> the new supermod group's making transition for people to FC much easier all round
<mhall119> elfy: is there anything the CC can do to help with recruiting mods, or anything else for the Forums?
<elfy> not with Mods no
<elfy> as far as anything else - we're pretty good thanks
<elfy> rt's are always a bit of an issue - but other than bumping old ones
<elfy> things sitting around for 6 months or more get to be annoying
<elfy> just finding one ...
<czajkowski> elfy: is there anything outstanding on rt or in general the CC can help with ?
<elfy> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=25642
<mhall119> we can try and bump priority on RTs, or at least get some action on old ones
<elfy> I opened that last October -seems that all that's required is edit a config file
<elfy> we of course don't have that access anymore
<czajkowski> ugh
<czajkowski> mhall119: surely we can get some bump on that RT
<czajkowski> October is a long time ago
<mhall119> yup, I'll take an action item to do that
<mhall119> #action mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
<meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
<elfy> 24227 - April last - mods can't set their own passwords
<elfy> generally though - positive
<czajkowski> elfy: as in april just gone ?
<mhall119> elfy: you said 24228 was solved, is 24227 still open?
<elfy> oh - sorry we're in May ... 2015
<elfy> 24228 is nothing to do with us afaik
<mhall119> #action mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
<meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
<mhall119> elfy: ok
<mhall119> elfy: which is the most urgent?
<elfy> 24227
<mhall119> ok, I'll push for that one first
<elfy> but I think this is tied up with http/https/sso - knotty problem
<mhall119> elfy: anything else the FC is blocked on or waiting on?
<elfy> nope
<mhall119> anything else the FC would like to discuss during this meeting?
<elfy> well - waiting, but I'd not be worrying about recent ones
<elfy> nope - I'm good thanks mhall119
<elfy> I can take the hat off now ;)
<mhall119> elfy: if you get to where you feel you've waited long enough, ask the CC to escelate it
<elfy> yep
<mhall119> you don't need to wait for the next checkin :)
<elfy> well no - but they hang around for so long we forget lol
<mhall119> cprofitt: czajkowski pleia2 anything else to talk to the FC about?
<czajkowski> narp all good
<cprofitt> I am good
<mhall119> thanks elfy for representing the FC today
<czajkowski> elfy: shout earlir if the FC need help with RTs
<elfy> czajkowski: :~)
<czajkowski> seems crazy waiting that long
<elfy> hard to know what else they're up to - mostly just a note on the ticket 'soon'orsomething helps
<elfy> syrup under space bar apparently ...
<mhall119> #topic Core Apps checkin
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council meeting | Current topic: Core Apps checkin
<mhall119> popey: your turn
<popey> o/
<elfy> well if everyone is good - we can move on to popey fidgeting in the corner :)
<popey> Yo, wassup?
<elfy> hi popey :)
<popey> I was passing time providing support in #ubuntu :)
<popey> <uncomfortable silence>
<elfy> oh yes - words
<elfy> so - anything awesome you can tell us about Phone :)
<mhall119> popey: ok, first off then, any notable activity on the core apps?
 * mhall119 asks knowing there is
<elfy> lol
<popey> Ok, so we had UOS between last time we spoke and now
<popey> Had a bunch of sessions for core apps
<popey> Lots of discussion and planning done for the coming months.
<popey> However, there's one overriding issue which I want to braindump at you.
<popey> if you don't mind.
<elfy> go for it
<popey> Contribution is down, and it's quite hard to get more people involved and I have some theories why.
<popey> 1) Some aspects (such as writing autopilot tests) are not exciting but incredibly dull, and hard to 'sell'
<popey> 2) many people don't have a device.
<popey> 1 we can work on, we can make the tests easier to write
<popey> we can also find those strange people who like writing them
 * popey looks at balloons 
<popey> However, 2 is a bit harder.
<cprofitt> yeah, I was a bit disappointed when I found my nexus 7 could not help test
<elfy> if they were easy I would
<popey> The knock on effect of people not having a device is that they don't feel empowered to help in many ways
<popey> and they don't feel like they're scratching an itch
<popey> e.g. "Why would I work on the Ubuntu music app on ubuntu phone, when I have an android phone"
<popey> In the past, the desktop was 'easier' to get contributions to, because anyone could install it on any system
<popey> The fact that we need to port to specific devices actually makes it hard to get devices for people
<popey> especially when in some regions (USA) there's limited options (bq and meizu devices don't work well over there on all of their frequencies for example)
<popey> Is this making sense?
<mhall119> popey: do you forsee that getting easier once we have a usable Unity 8 desktop?
<czajkowski> popey: it is
<elfy> popey: yep
<popey> Ok.
<popey> Well, there's a few things that will help.
<popey> more devices being available, and having a better end user experience helps
<popey> as people will be more inclined to use them as their daily driver
<popey> if you use it daily and you notice janky things, you're way more likely to file bugs / patches / translations / documentation
<popey> we have seen this on the ubuntu-phone list
<popey> there's people writing their own documentation, prototyping apps, translating things etc
<popey> all things we used to get lots of contributions for on the desktop
<popey> but at a MUCH smaller scale
<popey> because few people have the devices. and those that do, don't use it daily, so don't see the issues, or don't feel motivated to fix them
<popey> Now, this leads ot a bit of a chicken and egg issue.
<popey> I feel like ubuntu phone is where ubuntu desktop was in ~2005
<popey> works well for a subset of users, on specific hardware.
<popey> Oh, and another thing!
<popey> many regular contributors to ubuntu are students - people who traditionally have limited desposable income
<popey> so they often (generalising here) make the best of the equipment they have
<czajkowski> popey: it's a daft idea but why not organise some some of phone jam - where you or others bring along hand sets and people play with them and use them and file bugs. New users = new bugs and new users = new ideas on the phone
<czajkowski> people come and get to meet one another
<popey> and are more inclined to fix things because "It's my only PC". whereas everyone (mostly) already has a smartphone - even students with low / no / income
<czajkowski> and you get some community interaction
<popey> Well.
<popey> Good idea to have events.
<popey> I will certainly note that.
<popey> However, right now, bugs we are not short of :)
<mhall119> we have encouraged people to bring their devices to loco team events
<mhall119> but that doesn't let others use it as a daily driver
<czajkowski> well it's more about interaction and if you provide the devices then people can get involved
<czajkowski> popey: perhaps for a student meet up you could give away one to the person who files the most bugs, or writes the best test case
<czajkowski> put bounty on it
<popey> hmm. incentivising
<popey> you know how I feel about that :)
<czajkowski> popey: I do :)
<czajkowski> popey: next co working day bring devices and let people play and run the tests on them!
<popey> like I say, bugs we have. contributions we don't
<mhall119> I know in the past we have used the community donations to send devices to core apps developers, but we haven't expanded it to more general phone users/contributors
<popey> people often say "it doesn't do X or Y" and I already have the bug on my screen for them
<mhall119> even for core apps devs, we were bending the guidelines for them
<popey> I would love to have a bunch of devices i could take somewhere and get people to contribute
<mhall119> as many were not (yet) Ubuntu Members
<popey> Going back to the previous question, I do believe that things will get easier as we have snappy desktop in 15.10
<popey> and converged device coming this year
<mhall119> right, it won't give a phone use experience, but it will at least make it easier for people to run the apps themselves
<popey> both of those should have an impact and we should make certain to capture those poeple who are interested in contributing
<mhall119> popey: is there anything we can do to encourage people to use core apps on current desktops?
<czajkowski> popey: mhall119 could a loco team apply for funnds via the fund to buy phones for their team to get more involved?
<popey> yes and no
<czajkowski> Perhaps the perception is you have to be a core dev to get a phone
<popey> so to mhall119, yes, i need to delete all the core apps wiki page and replace it with a pretty page on developer.ubuntu.com :)
<mhall119> czajkowski: I would think so, yes, but they would need to show that it would be money well spent
<popey> i dont want to buy a bunch of phones to sit in a drawer somewhere
<mhall119> ^^ that
<mhall119> we've loaned devices to loco teams for use in events, but the expectation was that it would come back to Canonical afterwards so it can be loaned to someone else
<czajkowski> nods
<elfy> popey: got to run here - I'll read up in a bit - thanks :)
<mhall119> thanks elfy
<czajkowski> I do know some locos are very proactive in QA and might enjoy this
<czajkowski> perhaps they don;t know they could avail of the fund
<czajkowski> maybe one thing they'd have to do is provide a bi weekly report of their work ?
<popey> elfy: thanks
<mhall119> czajkowski: yeah, and I think they would need regular in-person meetups in order for more than just one person to take advantage of the device
<popey> Again, QA isn't really what we need. We have people testing stuff. It's fixers we need. IMO
<mhall119> popey: is it time for another recruitment drive for Core Apps?
<popey> yes
<popey> so, todo list:-
<popey> 1) make a better home page on developer.ubuntu.com
<mhall119> ok, the hack days seemed to work reasonably well for that in the past
<popey> 2) Better articulate the things we need
<popey> 3) recruit
<mhall119> popey: ack
<popey> hack days were variable
<mhall119> popey: what part of that can the CC help with?
<popey> I'll make a start on 1 and 2
<popey> Don't think anything (yet)
<mhall119> popey: has it helped to bring some of those core app devs to sprints?
<mhall119> I know it's highly motivating to the ones that go, but what about in recruiting new devs?
<popey> yeah, absolutely
<popey> not sure I understand the question
<popey> inviting community people to sprints is a mixed blessing
<popey> "Here, come along with us and hack on ubuntu" vs "Here, spend a week of your vacation working for no pay"
<mhall119> is that kind of involvement with Canonical something that helps motivate people to get involved, or does it only motivate people who are already involved?
<popey> I think it's motivating and fun for students
<popey> less so for people with families / careers
<mhall119> ack
<popey> ergo we should target students ã
<popey> exams are now, summer holidays coming for many
<popey> now is the time to strike
<mhall119> popey: what about a GSoC project for this?
<czajkowski> popey: contact unis that offer mobile dev courses and see if they'd like a semester project
<popey> too late for GSOC I think?
<mhall119> maybe
<mhall119> not sure if Google would approve it anywya
<popey> czajkowski: yeah, will add that to my list
<mhall119> popey: changing gears a bit, is there anything blocking or disrupting contributions from the people you already have?
<popey> Yes. Not having enough other contributors.
<mhall119> heh
<popey> People to review code for example
<czajkowski> popey: I know we can only build for ubuntu devices there are no cross platform options out there yet
<popey> I'm not kidding
<popey> czajkowski: would be nice if the SDK ran on other platforms, but it doesn't right now
<mhall119> popey: do you still have people from Canonical helping with code reviews?
<czajkowski> but have peple thought about going to many more mobile conferecens and talking about the Ubuntu phone theer to get developers who work on xamarin ios and android interested
<popey> mhall119: I poke people now and then yes
<czajkowski> popey: I type slowly :(
<popey> czajkowski: we do go to conferences. not many, but targetted, dpm was at one this week doing exactly that :)
 * czajkowski attends many many mobile events, but no sign of Ubuntu at them 
<czajkowski> and they're not just for android or iOS
<czajkowski> anyways
<mhall119> yes, that is something we are trying to do more of within the community team at canonical
<mhall119> we've also been developing materials for community contributors to use at such conferences
<popey> we have to target events carefully.
<popey> we don't have a huge budget for events
<popey> and many are just not appropriate
<mhall119> yeah, a lot of mobile events seem very businessey
<mhall119> having the SDK working on Windows and OSX would certainly help, but I think the technical difficulties on that are too high for it to be realistic right now
<popey> yup
<popey> its even hard to run it other linux distros
<mhall119> I would like to see more of Ubuntu at mobile dev conferences though, perhaps we should go over our material again to make sure it's ready for non-canonicalers to use
<mhall119> ok, our hour is just about up, is there anything else you wanted to bring up or ask for assistance with popey ?
<popey> I think we'll be in better shape by the end of the year as we'll have more devices in more regions and converged device.
<popey> Nope
<mhall119> popey: any highlights or praises you want to give?
<popey> Not now, I'll save that :)
<mhall119> :)
<mhall119> czajkowski: cprofitt anything else for popey?
<czajkowski> narp all good
<cprofitt> no thank you
<mhall119> #topic Any other business
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Community Council meeting | Current topic: Any other business
<popey> thanks for the tips and advice everyone
<mhall119> ok, *now* is there anybody here who wants to bring up a topic that wasn't on the agenda?
<popey> can I go home now? :)
<czajkowski> chooo chooo
<mhall119> popey: don't like working from the office?
<czajkowski> mhall119: no he prefers co working :D
<mhall119> alright, last call for topics
<czajkowski> AOB anyone ?
<mhall119> czajkowski: well co-working gives him chocolate pains
<mhall119> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 18:03:52 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-17.02.moin.txt
<popey> mhall119: not at 7pm
<mhall119> thank you everyone
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> toodles
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-05-24
<lunapersa> Hello jose
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-23
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 23 16:39:44 2016 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hello
<jdstrand> I'm focused on snappy this week
<jdstrand> specifically, I'm working on more sdoc policy updates, policy recompiles for apparmor upgrades on snappy and sprint outcomes
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I have a question on seccomp arg filtering. do you plan to review that this week? if not, I need to do an SRU for the ecryptfs denial in the launcher and will work on that. if so, I'll bundle together and work on that
<jdstrand> in addition, I need to followup on the click-apparmor SRU
<tyhicks> jdstrand: I do plan to review it this week
<jdstrand> ok, thanks
<jdstrand> then I'll also be doing the second part of that :)
<jdstrand> mdes laur is out, so, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I'm working on getting the glibc updates out this week
<sbeattie> I need to get back at looking at some of the build failures in yakkety caused by enabling pie
<sbeattie> I'll probably try to pick up another update in the background this week, since our backlog is long
<sbeattie> I also need to see where we're at with upstream apparmor on some things, whether we can release 2.11 and pull that into yakkety.
<sbeattie> That's probably it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'm doing CVE triage this week
<tyhicks> otherwise, I'm mostly focused on snappy
<tyhicks> I'm fixing and SRUing bug #1584069 in support of bug #1583259
<ubottu> bug 1584069 in AppArmor "change_profile rules need a modifier to allow non-secureexec transitions" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1584069
<ubottu> bug 1583259 in Snappy Launcher "Snappy needs to influence environment variables in applications " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1583259
<tyhicks> then I'll do some ubuntu-core-launcher MP reviews (including seccomp arg filtering)
<tyhicks> and then I'll be making the ubuntu-core-launcher changes for bug #1582781
<ubottu> bug 1582781 in Snappy "snapd needs a way to control mount points " [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1582781
<tyhicks> that's it for me
<tyhicks> I don't see jj so you're up, sarnold
 * jjohansen is here
<tyhicks> ah
<tyhicks> jjohansen: go ahead
<jjohansen> I am working on apparmor this week
<jjohansen> I have a user who has volunteered to run a test kernel for bug  1581990 which I think is the same as 1579135
<ubottu> bug 1581990 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Profile reload leads to kernel NULL pointer dereference" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581990
<jjohansen> so hopefully I can make some progress on it
<jdstrand> tyhicks: note that zyga is updating the launcher for 'snap-run' and the project is moving and possibly renamed
 * jdstrand gets link
<jjohansen> bug 1579135
<ubottu> bug 1579135 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "kernel BUG on snap disconnect from within a snap" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579135
<jdstrand> tyhicks: https://github.com/ubuntu-core/snap-run/pull/1/files
<jjohansen> I found a couple more bugs while auditing the code looking a fix for that and I need to clean those up a bit
<jjohansen> I need to finish reviewing the gsettings stuff and discuss that this week
<tyhicks> jdstrand: thanks
<jdstrand> tyhicks: I'm discussing how thi simpacts us in #snappy
<jjohansen> I expect to be reviewing some patches from tyhicks, and I'll be working on fixing up more stacking issues
<tyhicks> jjohansen: can you start putting together a list of bug links for stacking issues that need to be fixed by 16.04.1 so that we can allow unpriv policy loads?
<jjohansen> tyhicks: sure
<tyhicks> thanks
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold
<sarnold> I'm on bug triage this week; I'm working on getting the imagemagick updates out the door; I may also do some smallsih apparmor work for distraction, some wiki editing or patch reviews
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> No updates planned for me this week, although I'll probably be spending some time preparing the next oxide release (1.15)
<chrisccoulson> I also need to figure out what we're going to do with 32-bit builds, given that launchpad has no support for cross-compiling packages (confirmed by infinity last week)
<chrisccoulson> Other than that, I'll be working through bugs as usual
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<tyhicks> chrisccoulson: is the GN transition done?
<chrisccoulson> tyhicks, no, as usual things seem to have slipped a bit upstream, taking the pressure off. So I used that to get some other stuff done last week
<chrisccoulson> (I'm still working on it)
<tyhicks> ok, thanks
<tyhicks> glad you got some breathing room there
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/cakephp.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/virtualbox.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/aria2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-sabredav.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libiptables-parse-perl.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 23 17:05:38 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-23-16.39.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<jdstrand> tyhicks: thanks! :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<bdmurray> sil2100: I think infinity and cyphermox are out today...
<sil2100> o/
<rbasak> o/
<sil2100> hm, let's see if we'll have a quorum
<rbasak> If the only application is GunnarHj's PPU extension, I'm not sure if we even need a quorum.
 * rbasak checks
<sil2100> Oh, we don't? I though any vote-related decision would require a quorum - but I'm new to all this
<rbasak> I can't find a reference, still looking.
<rbasak> I thought that some items needed a +1 only from one DMB member, such as expanding an existing packageset. Not sure about PPU.
<rbasak> Well, I can't find a reference to say that we don't, so let's assume that we need quorum.
<rbasak> Is anyone else here?
<bdmurray> I am
<sil2100> Ok, so still 3 people
<rbasak> GunnarHj: are you here?
<GunnarHj> Yes.
<rbasak> OK, let's see if we can find enough DMB people.
<sil2100> What was that command to ping all DMB members?
<sil2100> Ah, you did that just now
<sil2100> :)
<rbasak> We could continue and if unanimous then ask for one more vote by email.
<sil2100> Ok, let me start the meeting then
<sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 23 19:09:24 2016 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic:
<micahg> o/ I"m kinda here, but otp
<BenC> o/
<sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<sil2100> o/
<BenC> Appologies for the tardiness
<sil2100> We have a quorum then
<sil2100> Ok, so action items:
<sil2100> cyphremox Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions
<sil2100> Not sure if that happened ^ ?
<sil2100> cyphermox is not around but anyone else knows maybe?
<rbasak> I could try asking Launchpad but no point holding the meeting up for that.
<sil2100> Ok, let's continue then, we can follow up on that later indeed
<sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
<sil2100> #subtopic GunnarHj
<bdmurray> I thought there was a question about whether or not he needed new endorsements.
<sil2100> So the topic in mention is GunnarHj's request to extend his PPU rights to more packages
<sil2100> Without a new batch of endorsements
<GunnarHj> As regards endorsements, dholbach entered one on my old applications.
<sil2100> bdmurray: you think we should have a separate vote for that, or just treat it as part of the vote for PPU extension?
<GunnarHj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GunnarHj/PerPackageUploaderApplication
<sil2100> Any opinions regarding our current situation ^ ?
<bdmurray> sil2100: I guess voting, I don't think we have a policy for extending PPU uploads.
<rbasak> sil2100: IMHO it's fine without a separate vote. If somebody isn't happy because of a desire to see endorsements, then that can be made clear in a single vote.
<sil2100> Right, I agree with rbasak's view here as well
<bdmurray> if it were someone applying for core dev we would want to see endorsements.
<sil2100> Right
<bdmurray> not just reuse their motu ones.
<sil2100> Any members have questions to GunnarHj before we start the vote?
<sil2100> The extended package set can be found here:
<sil2100> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2016-May/000924.html
<rbasak> Yes
<rbasak> GunnarHj: as you're applying without endorsements, I feel I have to ask: do you know of any reason why your sponsors wouldn't want to give you an endorsement? Anything they have been unhappy about?
<GunnarHj> rbasak: No, I'm not aware of any such reason. AFAIK they are reasonably happy with my performance. I felt this was in effect similar to extending a packageset, so for convenience reasons... That's all.
<rbasak> Thanks. That makes me wonder actually. Does this set of packages form a packageset? Should we be creating one instead?
<rbasak> It seems to me that it generally is "language support". Is this accurate?
<GunnarHj> rbasak: I have thought the same. Not easy to define a packageset for l10n/i18n though...
<GunnarHj> rbasak: Yes, it's "language support" in a sense.
<rbasak> Why is "l10n/i18n" not a good description? :)
<GunnarHj> rbasak: Sure, ok for me...
<rbasak> Does accountsservice and/or ubuntu-docs fit into this as well? I imagine the latter does? What about accountsservice?
<GunnarHj> rbasak: The part of accountsservice I'm dealing with is closely related to language-selector. (ubuntu-docs does not fit IMO.)
<rbasak> OK, thanks.
<rbasak> I'm interested in the DMB elders' views on this. Should we create a i18n packageset?
 * sil2100 is a newbie here
<sil2100> bdmurray: ^?
<bdmurray> I don't think there is a need at this point in time.
<micahg> if we think people might be interested in such a thing, it sounds fine
<GunnarHj> Currently I'd proably be the only member.
<bdmurray> In which case I'd wait for another member.
<rbasak> OK
<sil2100> Maybe let's think about it next time
<bdmurray> Or look for other devs w/ PPU for some of those packages.
<sil2100> An action item for this maybe? Could someone check this?
<sil2100> Does anyone want to pick up checking other devs with the same/similar sets of packages?
<bdmurray> I will
<sil2100> #action bdmurray to check for other PPU devs with similar packages to the proposed 'language support' packageset
<meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to check for other PPU devs with similar packages to the proposed 'language support' packageset
<sil2100> Ok, any other questions?
<sil2100> Let's vote in that case
<sil2100> #vote
<meetingology> Please vote on:
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<sil2100> Sorry, cat pressed enter too soon...
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> No vote in progress
<rbasak> Interesting.
<rbasak> Is this Perl "empty string vs. undef"?
<sil2100> #vote Gunnar Hjalmarsson on extending PPU packages as per request
<meetingology> Please vote on: Gunnar Hjalmarsson on extending PPU packages as per request
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<bdmurray> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
<sil2100> +1 (I suppose his work on the requested packages shows sufficient knowledge and involvement)
<meetingology> +1 (I suppose his work on the requested packages shows sufficient knowledge and involvement) received from sil2100
<rbasak> +1 on the strength and nature of previous endorsements
<meetingology> +1 on the strength and nature of previous endorsements received from rbasak
<rbasak> As a new DMB member I found it pretty hard without endorsements though, so I'm not sure about how I feel about this in principle. GunnarHj's previous endorsements were very strong though so I have little doubt about it this time.
<rbasak> BenC? micahg?
<BenC> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from BenC
<bdmurray> I guess I've seen a lot of his work as an SRU team member.
<sil2100> I suppose the packages were similar 'in nature' to the ones previously in his PPU rights so I guess this time it seemed to be natural and ok
<BenC> I found enough paper trail to be comfortable.
<micahg> +0 I unfortunately didn't have time to review, but have seen good work in the past
<meetingology> +0 I unfortunately didn't have time to review, but have seen good work in the past received from micahg
 * BenC reviewed it this morning
<sil2100> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Gunnar Hjalmarsson on extending PPU packages as per request
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<sil2100> GunnarHj: congratulations!
<GunnarHj> Thanks for the showed confidence! :)
<sil2100> I never did this before, who can actually do the permission changes in this case?
<rbasak> GunnarHj: thank you for looking after these packages for Ubuntu
<sil2100> I suppose I could do this as well but I would have to be instructed
<rbasak> edit-acl from ubuntu-archive-tools
<sil2100> Ok, let me put that on my list in that case
<rbasak> I haven't actually used it to change permissions yet but I think I understand it now.
<rbasak> I'm happy to take the action if you like, so I can learn the ropes.
<sil2100> rbasak: ok, so you go first, I'll pick it up next time in that case
<sil2100> rbasak: thanks!
<rbasak> ack
<sil2100> Ok, so I guess that's it for this topic, nothing more on the agenda
<sil2100> #topic AOB
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<rbasak> sil2100: set me an #action please?
<sil2100> Ah, right!
<rbasak> sil2100: also a carry over for cyphermox I guess.
<sil2100> #action rbasak to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to make permission changes for new PPU packages for GunnarHj
<bdmurray> I don't see ubuntu-mate here either fwiw https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu_Developers_.28from_delegated_teams.29
<sil2100> #action cyphermox Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions
<meetingology> ACTION: cyphermox Update Mate packages per Iain Laney's suggestions
<sil2100> Ok, any other business?
<bdmurray> I wonder if that wiki page should be updated to include ubuntu-mate-dev
<rbasak> I assumed that would be for cyphermox to do when he looks at creating the packageset?
<bdmurray> Ah, fair enough.
<sil2100> btw. I saw "Ubuntu uTouch Uploaders (Launchpad: ~ubuntu-utouch-dev)" which doesn't exist apparently
<sil2100> Does anyone know why is it listed there? Was that supposed to be for ubuntu-touch or for some utouch packages that we don't have anymore?
<sil2100> I wonder if there are more items that do not exist anymore right now
<bdmurray> sil2100: You should check ;-)
<sil2100> Ok, if that's a sensible action item let me add that for myself ;)
<sil2100> #action sil2100 to check the state of Ubuntu uTouch Uploaders and any other teams that might be non-existent
<meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to check the state of Ubuntu uTouch Uploaders and any other teams that might be non-existent
<sil2100> Right, anything else?
<rbasak> fonts-* is a really big list
<rbasak> Is that OK?
<rbasak> It surprises me, I just wanted to check if it was just me
<rbasak> http://paste.ubuntu.com/16642048/
<rbasak> The other expansions are as I'd expect.
<rbasak> For fonts-* would it worth creating a packageset called "fonts-*" just to make it a little more manageable?
<sil2100> hm, indeed a huge list
<rbasak> If nobody knows I can take it to the list.
<sil2100> That idea seems worth considerating
<rbasak> OK I'll take it to the list.
<sil2100> Ok
<GunnarHj> As regards fonts-*: Sure, it's long. And probably there is no reason to touch most of them in Ubuntu (synced from Debian). But it's hard to anticipate when there is a need...
<rbasak> GunnarHj: sure - looking at your upload history I think it makes little sense to give you PPU to just what you've touched, since next time it's likely to be another and they presumably all work the same way.
<rbasak> So I support giving you upload rights to it all, just wondering how technically to do it such that it remains manageable for us.
<rbasak> I'll take it to the list.
<sil2100> If there are no other items, let's finish today's meeting and discuss the fonts-* packageset on the ML
<sil2100> Assuming we're good to finish up
<sil2100> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 23 19:56:43 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-23-19.09.moin.txt
<sil2100> Thanks everyone!
<rbasak> Thank you sil2100 for chairing.
<sil2100> I'll update the agenda, next chair: cyphermox I suppose?
<rbasak> Whoever is next on the list
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-24
<jamespage> o/
<jgrimm> o/ howdy james!
<cpaelzer> o/
<smoser> o/
<caribou> o/
<jamespage> okies lets get going....
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 24 16:01:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
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 * jamespage looks
<rbasak> o/
<jamespage> ah - nacc was due to announce the v1 importer - I think we can mark that done
<jgrimm> indeed, nacc sent out email along with call for testing
<jamespage> awesome
<jamespage> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> feature definition freeze is up on thursday
<jamespage> jgrimm, are folks still doing bp's?
<jgrimm> not particularly, though we do have a generic server one for tracking high level work
<jgrimm> fairly empty atm except for nginx work planned
<jamespage> great
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1578344
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1578344 in nginx (Ubuntu Yakkety) "code duplication between nginx-*.postinst and init script" [Low,Triaged]
<jamespage> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1577739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1577739 in samba (Ubuntu Yakkety) "samba security regression tracking bug" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jamespage> looks like one security bug
<jgrimm> yup
<rharper> o/
<jamespage> and a nginx bug which thomas has hold of
<jamespage> good-oh
<jgrimm> indeed
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
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<jamespage> caribou, you're up
<caribou> haking at kdump-tools/makedumpfile
<caribou> maybe I should have this added to the blueprint
<jamespage> sounds like a nice idea
<jgrimm> caribou, please do
<caribou> ok, will do as there appears to be a bit more effort that I thought :)
<jamespage> #action caribou to add kdump-tools/makedumpfile to server team blueprint
<meetingology> ACTION: caribou to add kdump-tools/makedumpfile to server team blueprint
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<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team
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<jamespage> hmm - who does qa team these days?
<jgrimm> jamespage, skip.. missing a QA person atm
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<smb> No news (supposedly good news then).
<jamespage> \o/
<jamespage> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
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<jamespage> anything?
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
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<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> I think you missed "Assigned merges/bugwork" in the agenda. I was going to ask to do this at the end anyway, since I want to get updates on progress of those assigned bugs and assign new bugs to people, but many people here aren't involved in assigned bugwork and I don't want to hold them up.
<jamespage> anything for open discussion
<jamespage> rbasak, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting/IRCCommands following this
<rbasak> So would you like to add me as #chair and I can take that item and let you go?
<jamespage> rbasak, you want to handle that now?
<jamespage> #chair rbasak
<meetingology> Current chairs: jamespage rbasak
<jamespage> youre on
<nacc> also, if it matters to anyone else, i'm only seeing about half the text due to the netsplit still :)
<jgrimm> eek
<rbasak> So first, let's get progress updates on bugs previously assigned. No progress is fine, I'd just like to know if that's the case.
<rbasak> jgrimm: I have you down for bug 1397250. How's that going?
<ubottu> bug 1397250 in libnss-ldap (Ubuntu) "SIGPIPE not caught in do_atfork_child()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1397250
<rbasak> nacc: any progress on bug 1318317 please?
<ubottu> bug 1318317 in openipmi (Ubuntu Trusty) "openipmi startup script removes kernel modules" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1318317
<jgrimm> rbasak, have not touched in ages. :(   will try to resurrect this week!!!
<rbasak> rharper: I have you down for four: bug I think you missed "Assigned merges/bugwork" in the agenda. I was going to ask to do this at the end anyway, since I want to get updates on progress of those assigned bugs and assign new bugs to people, but many people here aren't involved in assigned bugwork and I don't want to hold them up.
<rbasak> Oops
<rbasak> Let's try that again.
<rbasak> rharper: I have you down for four: bug 1384503, bug 1457957, bug 1511735 and bug 1518440.
<ubottu> bug 1384503 in rsync (Ubuntu Trusty) "rsync fails on large files with compression" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1384503
<rharper> rbasak: ok
<ubottu> bug 1457957 in puppet (Ubuntu Vivid) "puppet uses upstart for service status checks in vivid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1457957
<ubottu> bug 1511735 in libnl3 (Ubuntu Trusty) "libnl: fail to bind() netlink sockets" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511735
<ubottu> bug 1518440 in MAAS "tgt fails to install in LXD" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1518440
<nacc> rbasak: sorry, what kind of progress should there be? xenial is fixed, and trusty sru has been committed, i guess need to ping ibm to test
<rbasak> And magicalchicken isn't here, but he had bug 869017 and bug 1394403.
<ubottu> bug 869017 in kbd (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu server enables screenblanking, concealing crashdumps (DPMS is not used)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869017
<ubottu> bug 1394403 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "RewriteRule of "^$" is broken" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394403
<rbasak> nacc: driving it so that we don't have to worry about it any more. I guess if an SRU is pending verification that can you finish up driving that please? If you've chased and verification isn't forthcoming then we can consider it done from an assignment perspective I think.
<nacc> rbasak: ack, just provided a comment
<cpaelzer> if it is not tracked already - in addition to smosers guidance (he might be the one on your list) I work on bug 1574113 with iterations https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/cloud-init/test-apt-source/  https://code.launchpad.net/~paelzer/cloud-init/add-apt_source-handling-for-bug-1574113/
<ubottu> bug 1574113 in MAAS "curtin/maas don't support multiple (derived) archives/repositories with custom keys" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1574113
<cpaelzer> also working on bug 1546547 with the upcoming dpdk merge (will be a while until it is complete)
<ubottu> bug 1546547 in dpdk (Ubuntu) "DPDK shared library versioning" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546547
<rbasak> cpaelzer: I'm not tracking those but I can add them, thanks.
<rbasak> I have five more bugs I'd like to assign to non-uploaders. These all look straightforward (though they might turn out not to be). Though not that important, I think it'll be helpful to ramp up non-uploaders to getting upload rights.
<rbasak> nacc, cpaelzer, rharper: shall I list them, and you can grab the ones you fancy?
<rbasak> bug 1511222, bug 1423498, bug 1491406
<ubottu> bug 1511222 in apache2 (Ubuntu Trusty) "Incorrect trusted proxy match test in mod_remoteip" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1511222
<ubottu> bug 1423498 in squid3 (Ubuntu Vivid) "FTP upload causes squid hang" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1423498
<ubottu> bug 1491406 in augeas (Ubuntu) "augeas-lenses-1.2.0 - NagiosCfg lens broken for /etc/nagios.cfg due to spaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1491406
<rbasak> bug 1507681, bug 1524635
<ubottu> bug 1507681 in psmisc (Ubuntu Precise) "killall with 65 arguments kills more than expected" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507681
<ubottu> bug 1524635 in haproxy (Ubuntu) "haproxy syslog configuration causes double logging" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1524635
<rbasak> Any preferences, or shall I assign them in turn?
<cpaelzer> I'd prefere the psmisc one
<cpaelzer> not sure how fast I'll get to it but thats what this meeting will sove over time
<rbasak> Great, thanks!
<jgrimm> rbasak: fyi magicalChicken will be working for me full time this summer again.. he can take one too (starting next week)
<rbasak> jgrimm: thanks. He has two already. Shall I give him one more?
<jgrimm> that works!
<rbasak> OK, if there are no other preferences, I'll assign the rest in turn. No point holding up this meeting - I'll assign and Launchpad will email you.
<jgrimm> thanks rbasak
<nacc> rbasak: yeah, just assign any to me
<nacc> rbasak: i'm possibly a bit busy this week w/ php7 in debian
<rbasak> My goal here is to get a production line of bugs being fixed. If your assigned bugs get held up and blocked not by you, then that's absolutely fine - we'll treat them as clear of assignment and assign more. I just want as many bugs as possible not blocked by a developer.
<nacc> rbasak: also, want to get to merges too
<rbasak> nacc: ack. As long as everybody has bugs to get on with, jgrimm can prioritise Canonical staff as needed.
<rbasak> I think I'm done. Thanks all.
<rbasak> Anything more for open discussion?
<jamespage> okies
<rbasak> I'll move this section to even more at the end of the meeting for next time.
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
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<jamespage> +7 days same time same place
<jamespage> see you then
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 24 16:24:54 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-24-16.01.moin.txt
<nacc> thanks jamespage!
<rbasak> Thanks jamespage!
<rbasak> gnuoy: looks like you're next on the chairing list.
<caribou> thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-25
<gnuoy> Hi !
<thedac> o/
<cargonza> o/
<gnuoy> jamespage, are you joining us too or are you EOD'd
<gnuoy> #startmeeting openstack-charms-meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 25 17:00:59 2016 UTC.  The chair is gnuoy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic:
<gnuoy> Welcome to the first Openstack Charms meeting !
<gnuoy> For those of you haven't seen it there's an agenda etc here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OpenStackCharmsMeeting
<thedac> woo
<gnuoy> woo exactly!
<gnuoy> Since this is the first one I think it'd be worth doing a few quick introductions. I'm Liam Young, and I work almost exclusively on the OpenStack charms. I'm in UTC+1 and can usually be found in #juju. I'm currently focused on creating a Designate charm among other things.
<gnuoy> Who wants to go next?
<cargonza> me...
<cargonza> I'm Carlos Gonzales and I work with Liam... I manage the Openstack team in Canonical.
<thedac> I am David Ames also an OpenstackCharmer. I am in UTC-8. I am currenlty working on HA using DNS for our API charms.
<gnuoy> thanks cargonza
<gnuoy> ta thedac
<tinwood> I'm Alex Kavanagh, I work with Liam and David on OpenStack Charms.  I'm also UTC+1 and can be also found in #juju.  I'm working on the layered barbican charm at present.
<gnuoy> ta tinwood
<tinwood> np
<gnuoy> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | openstack-charms-meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<gnuoy> Well, since this is the first I think we can safely skip on...
<gnuoy> #topic State of Development for next Charm Release
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<gnuoy> We haven't picked a 16.07 charm release date just yet but I guess we'll be aiming for 2016-07-23 with a freeze on the 9th which looks a lot like two weeks away /o\
<gnuoy> We may have to lower expectations for whats in 16.07
<cargonza> correct
<gnuoy> #action gnuoy review 16.07 deliverables
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy review 16.07 deliverables
<thedac> gnuoy: 9th of June or 9th of July?
<gnuoy> thedac, ah ! you can count months better than me!
<thedac> Whew!
<gnuoy> Make that 1 Month + 2weeks
<gnuoy> #topic Release Bugs
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<gnuoy> #link https://goo.gl/HJjORI
<cargonza> those are both Sat. correct? Should we end it on a Friday instead?
<gnuoy> Should be a Thursday, I obviously can not operate a calendar
<cargonza> in July that is..
<gnuoy> #action gnuoy fix release dates
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy fix release dates
<coreycb> o/
<gnuoy> Ok so looking at those bugs we have ~35 bugs that have not been touched at all
<gnuoy> hey coreycb
<gnuoy> That number is a bit high
<gnuoy>  I'll put sometime aside before the next meeting to look at a few but if anyone has cycles please try and chip a few off.
<gnuoy> #action gnuoy Review bug queue
<meetingology> ACTION: gnuoy Review bug queue
<gnuoy> Anyone want to add anything before we move on?
<gnuoy> moving on
<gnuoy> #topic Open Discussion
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<thedac> gnuoy: you want to paste your "How to write a layered openstack charm" doc? I think that would be helpful for people.
<gnuoy> Work continues on the openstack reactive layers and interfaces. Important updates to the layers landed today
<gnuoy> thedac, there might actually be a link on the minutes wiki
<thedac> ah, nice
<gnuoy> thedac, it's "Getting involved"
<gnuoy> #link https://github.com/openstack-charmers/openstack-community/blob/master/README.dev-charms.md
<gnuoy> The plan is to have similiar guides for SDN and storage integration which should be available RSN
<gnuoy> I'll move on unless anyone has any more Open things...
<gnuoy> #topic Openstack Events
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<gnuoy> I've heard from jamespage and others that the OPs meetups are excellent. I'd recommend having a look to see if one is happening near you
<gnuoy> Other than that I'm not aware of any Openstack'y events before the next ODS
<gnuoy> anyone know differently ?
<tinwood> What's an OP meetup?
<gnuoy> OP <=> Operators
<tinwood> ah, okay, thanks.
<gnuoy> I think http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436 was the one James went to
<gnuoy> That is pretty much it for Agenda items etc.
<thedac> #link https://github.com/openstack-charmers/openstack-community/blob/master/openstack-api-charm-creation-guide.md
<thedac> This was the link I thought was useful ^^
<tinwood> There's a whole page of meetings here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups
<gnuoy> Anyone got anthing else they want to mention before we close up?
<thedac> I am good
<gnuoy> Right then, last but not least...
<gnuoy> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
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<gnuoy> Sime time, same place !
<gnuoy> The randomely allocated chair for next week is our no-show jamespage !
<tinwood> :)
<coreycb> thanks gnuoy
<gnuoy> And lastly: Apologies to eveyone for my typing & spelling
<tinwood> thanks gnuoy
<gnuoy> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 25 17:19:21 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-25-17.00.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-05-26
<barry> o/
 * slangasek waves
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 26 15:03:35 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk)
<slangasek> bdmurray infinity cyphermox doko robru chiluk barry pitti tdaitx sil2100 slangasek xnox caribou
<cyphermox> so close!
 * tdaitx sorry, brb
<bdmurray> submitted RT re updating daisy to r704
<bdmurray> submitted RT re daisy update and setting timeout to 90 seconds
<bdmurray> pinged webops regarding removal of extra retracers that were added due to swift issues
<bdmurray> investigation into extra core files in swift
<bdmurray> bumped up gunicorn timeout to 90 seconds so we will stop killing workers that are writing core files
<bdmurray> investigation into retracers failing w/ large core files (LP: #1570937)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1570937 in Daisy "add in limit for size of core file accepted / retraced" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1570937
<bdmurray> fixed submit-crash to strip the SAS so core files are always sent
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding access to ports.ubuntu.com from devops env
<bdmurray> tested retracing of arm64 / ppc64el crashes
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1585702 re failure to retrace ppc64el crashes
<bdmurray> tested apport changes to not check uname for arch
<bdmurray> worked with cyphermox on LP: #1566201 (apturl)
<bdmurray> 16.04 apport and apturl SRU verification
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1585702 in Apport "not possible to retrace ppc64el crashes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1585702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1566201 in apturl (Ubuntu Xenial) "/usr/bin/apturl-gtk:AttributeError:/usr/bin/apturl-gtk@47:main:enableChannel:doEnableChannel" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566201
<bdmurray> I'l be out on Monday which is a US holiday
<bdmurray> â done
<slangasek> no sign of infinity
<slangasek> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> - Secure Boot
<cyphermox> - debugging various installer issues
<cyphermox> - backporting shim-signed / sbsigntool to trusty & precise.
<cyphermox> - ltrace SRU
<cyphermox> - debugging apturl w/ bdmurray
<cyphermox> - aptdaemon pkcompat & pk 1.1 testing
<cyphermox> - debugging grub efi missing configfile line w/ rharper
<cyphermox> - fix live-installer /cdrom prefixing (bug LP: #1575652)
<cyphermox> - network-manager-applet mobile data icon fix & SRU (LP: #1571574)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1575652 in live-installer (Ubuntu Xenial) "PXE install prefixes /cdrom to squashfs location, fails to find it" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1575652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1571574 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "[SRU] 3G (WWAN) icon missing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571574
<cyphermox> (done)
<slangasek> doko: around?
<cyphermox> isn't it a holiday in germany?
<slangasek> oh yes
<slangasek> robru:
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> * Mostly distracted with customer irqbalance issues.
<chiluk> Intel power management issues. Affecting Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake
<chiluk> * Kernel.org bugzilla #116591 - Mobile does not reach states deeper
<chiluk>   than PC2.  Tested with nvme, but received no benefit.
<chiluk> * LP #1581236 - Haswell does not reach greater than pc3
<chiluk> * LP #1579917 - Skylake with nvme does not reach greater than pc2
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581236 in linux (Ubuntu) "Power state does not drop lower than pc03 for package (Haswell i7-4500U) " [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581236
<chiluk> * LP #1576747 - Tested updated nm-applet. Issue still exists.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1579917 in linux (Ubuntu) "Skylake processor never reaches low power states on X1 Carbon gen 4 with NVMe drive" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579917
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1576747 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network manager unable to control wifi after suspend in 16.04" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1576747
<chiluk> * LP #1581595 - Merge partman-auto-lvm - Need sponsorship
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1581595 in partman-auto-lvm (Ubuntu) "Merge from debian partman-auto-lvm 59" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1581595
<chiluk> (done)
<cyphermox> chiluk: ack, will sponsor your partman-auto-lvm
<chiluk> thanks.
<barry> ubuntu-image: struggling and failing w/travis; landing auth pr; landing docs branch; discovering python issue #27066! various discussions; converting zyga's proto.sh to python
<barry> reviews: robru's parallel build branch; sil2100's system-image branch
<chiluk> yeah I was going to push on it, but I figured cjwatson or xnox might want to do the review, as that makes sense.
<barry> python issue#27066 (custom opener returning -1 causes SystemError)
<barry> LP: #1578761 (rebuild & verification)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1578761 in python-packaging (Ubuntu Xenial) "editable mode crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1578761
<barry> pycon prep - in portland starting tomorrow until june 5
<barry> --done--
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>    - retrying runtime tests with xfwm4 (fewer tests fail on the automated run)
<tdaitx>    - investigating services to automate JCK runs and provide detailed reports on test runs, errors, failures, and regressions
<tdaitx>    - testing javatest regression reports
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> no pitti because holiday in Germany; no sil2100 because holiday in Poland; so it's my turn :)
<slangasek>  * work on ubuntu-image for snappy image autobuilding
<slangasek>  * design discussions around the first boot experience in snappy
<slangasek>  * discussions of network yaml configuration for cloud-init
<slangasek>  * additional snappy hush hush special projects work
<slangasek>  * off on Monday (Memorial Day, US)
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> and xnox is on holiday
<slangasek> caribou:
<slangasek> oh, he sent a mail saying he'd miss the meeting
<slangasek> WELL THEN
<slangasek> nobody likes my meeting this week, /apparently/
 * slangasek flounce
<slangasek> any questions? :)
<slangasek> (about status)
<slangasek> (not about my sanity)
<bdmurray> slangasek: has apport on snappy been discussed at all?
<cyphermox> thanks for the new word.
<bdmurray> I remembered about this the other day - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1489410/comments/6
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1489410 in apport (Ubuntu) "do not require apt lists to be pre-installed" [Critical,Fix released]
<slangasek> bdmurray: if it has, not recently or in my earshot
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay
<slangasek> bdmurray: that is, I know people were thinking about error tracker for snappy 1y+ ago, but I don't know if it's come up again or where it sits in the plan; I think we do probably want to take the initiative there and revisit the question soon
<slangasek> (though the snappy team are working to a hard deadline next month, so probably not just this instant)
<bdmurray> got it
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> btw we do have a sprint coming up on us rather quickly again
<bdmurray> ah, yes
<bdmurray> I guess its SRU team related though but should the team members just be added to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/britney/britney2-ubuntu/view/head:/britney.conf#L38?
<slangasek> looks like the Agenda tab on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18GcvRfvPemTpn6lAbDNIQ6i2IXKM1ZwHfrjO24Qkank/edit#gid=1428105284 has a carry-over of our last sprint agenda - would somebody like to volunteer to create a new agenda doc and link it in?
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes, that's JFDI
<tdaitx> I forgot to add a status note saying that I will be on vacation the week before our sprint =)
<slangasek> bdmurray: fwiw the reason for having one file per person, historically, is that different people had access to different commands in Debian
<slangasek> bdmurray: that doesn't apply to us in Ubuntu, so I have thought it might make sense to smush everything into a single file (per branch) and just use revision history to see who did what
<slangasek> but I haven't taken the time to deal with that either
<slangasek> bdmurray: but you should feel free to fix this in either direction :)
<bdmurray> heh, okay
<slangasek> anything else?
<bdmurray> not from me
<slangasek> caribou: hi, we were just wrapping ;)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 26 15:30:57 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-05-26-15.03.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks, all :)
<caribou> :-/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-22
<jjohansen> \o
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 22 16:33:46 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Sponsored Updates
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Sponsored Updates
<tyhicks> Jose Manuel Santamaria Lema (santa_) provided debdiffs for xenial and yakkety for kauth (LP: #1689759)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1689759 in kde4libs (Ubuntu Artful) "CVE 2017-8422 - kauth: Local privilege escalation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1689759
<tyhicks> Rik Mills (acheronuk) provided debdiffs for xenial and yakkety for kde4libs (LP: #1689759)
<tyhicks> v.naini provided debdiffs for zesty for kauth and kde4libs (LP: #1689759)
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Join us!
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Join us!
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security Team has an open position. Learn more and apply at http://bit.ly/SecEngJob
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<acheronuk> tyhicks: you're welcome
 * acheronuk shuts up
<sbeattie> heh
<tyhicks> hey acheronuk :)
<sbeattie> I have an embargoed issue that I'm working on
<sbeattie> I've some kernel cve triage bits and signoffs to do
<sbeattie> I'll go down the open list to work on another update as well.
<sbeattie> Oh, kernel team pointed me at some minor qrt failures to address with the 4.11 kernel.
<sbeattie> (config renames ,etc.)
<sbeattie> that's probably my week.
<sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I've got a few eCryptfs kernel patches to review
<tyhicks> I'm trying my best to cover for Jamie on forum.snapcraft.io this week
<tyhicks> I've got some internal tasks to do today
<tyhicks> then I'll spend time on seccomp
<tyhicks> that's it
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'll be coordinating with sbeattie on some apparmor regression test failures, bug 1659111 is known and a kernel change, I knew about it before pushing, and told them the fix will follow
<jjohansen> I have poked a couple people on the securityfs patches so hopefully I will be doing any needed replies/revision for that
<ubottu> bug 1659111 in linux (Ubuntu Zesty) "UbuntuKVM guest crashed while running I/O stress test with Ubuntu kernel 4.4.0-47-generic" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1659111
<jjohansen> and I am working on finishing beating the patch queue for upstream into shape, largely still breaking a few things into smaller logical chunks that make sense and trying not to break bisecting
<jjohansen> oh and I suppose maybe the fixes for some qrt regressions, maybe
<tyhicks> jjohansen: was that the wrong bug number? did you mean bug 1692543?
<ubottu> bug 1692543 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "Regression tests cannot write to apparmor path_max module parameter in artful/4.11" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692543
<jjohansen> tyhicks: sorry yes 1692543, I grabbed the wrong line from irc :)
<tyhicks> cool
<jjohansen> I am going to push some more RFCs up this week, and I expect that to consume the rest of my time
<jjohansen> so I think that is it for me
<tyhicks> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> i'm on bug triage this week; back to MIRs; AA patch reviews if those will be helpful. and internal tasks
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson is out right?, so, ratliff?
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week
<ratliff> I am finalizing an ESM update and will do the same update for Ubuntu Core 15 (rtmpdump)
<ratliff> Most of the week will be focused on internal tasks.
<ratliff> that's it for me, back to you tyhicks
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-saml.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/icecast2.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kinit.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-rest-client.html
<tyhicks> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/jsoup.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tyhicks> sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ratliff: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 22 16:51:41 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-22-16.33.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks tyhicks
<ratliff> thank you tyhicks!
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks!
<cking> is there meant to be a DMB meeting right now?
<bdmurray> Given that today is a Canadian holiday will we have quorum for the DMB meeting?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Not sure
<bdmurray> o/
<jbicha> It's quietâ¦too quietâ¦ :(
<cking> i guess the meeting looks like it may be postponed
<bdmurray> jbicha: Yeah, sorry about that. As I mentioned its a Canadian holiday and a couple of board members are Canadian.
<jbicha> next Monday is a US holiday
<cking> and a UK one too, and I'd like to be around for that to get PPU rights :-/
<bdmurray> The schedule is every two weeks so the next one would be June 5th. We could take discussion of the applications to email.
<cking> bdmurray, if that's possible, I'd appreciate that for my PPU request for zfs et al
<sil2100> ;/
<rbasak> Sorry I'm late.
<bdmurray> rbasak: No problem, there's only 3 of us as it is.
<sil2100> rbasak: hey! No problem, we don't have a quorum yet sadly
<sil2100> So we didn't even start yet
<bdmurray> We were just discussing reviewing via email.
<sil2100> Let me re-ping
<rbasak> OK
<sil2100> I suppose we won't have anyone more, I would opt for an e-mail vote
<sil2100> But we'd have to make sure that it's handled in a timely fashion
<bdmurray> sil2100: How about we each start the discussion and babysit one application?
<bdmurray> micahg: Are you here for the meeting?
<micahg> I can sort of be, I'm in another meeting, so responses might be delayed
<bdmurray> Hmm, isn't that usually the case?
<micahg> yes, unfortunately :(
<bdmurray> Would reviewing via email work better for you?
<micahg> I don't know if that captures the whole story, it's good for the basic info, but the Q&A is sometimes useful to clarify one way or another (assuming we're talking about applications)
<bdmurray> How do you suggest getting the Q&A if being engaged in meetings is challenging?
<micahg> well, this is why I wanted to change the meeting times, the current times overlap for me
<bdmurray> What happened with that?
<micahg> I had trouble getting feedback from everyone and by the time I got feedback, I think the poll expired
<micahg> it's a moot point until after the election I think
<sil2100> bdmurray: +1 on the babysitting
<bdmurray> sil2100: I'll take jbicha's application then
<sil2100> bdmurray: ok, was cking for today as well?
<bdmurray> sil2100: his came in at the last minute but I think we should review it anyway
<bdmurray> let's not be a barrier
<cking> i was very much 11th hour
<sil2100> Yeah, I guess, I'll take a look at the application in a moment and follow up - you want to do some Q&A here + some voting, then finish it all of through e-mail? Or all by e-mail?
<bdmurray> I'm fine with all by email.
<sil2100> cking: would that be fine for you as well? I'd send out the discussion e-mail in a moment to get your application reviewed
<cking> sure, that's perfect for me
 * rbasak disappears
 * cking eod
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-23
<cpaelzer>                                                                                 o/
<cpaelzer> early, so I wave from far away
<smb> soo tiny
<cpaelzer> actually who is chare today
 * cpaelzer checks if he is
<cpaelzer> puh, smoser will have the fun
<smoser> o/
<smoser> oh. yeah.
<powersj> p/
<powersj> o/ wooops
<ahasenack> o/
<cpaelzer> was that one leg extended
<dpb1> o/
<smb> o/
<rbasak> o/
<smoser> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 23 16:01:18 2017 UTC.  The chair is smoser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<smoser> Welcome, Welcome.
<smoser> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<smoser> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<rbasak> carry over please.
<nacc> carry over mine too :(
<smoser> #ACTION rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<smoser> #ACTION nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> nacc, all ?
<smoser> #ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<smoser> ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<dpb1> mine too smoser. :/
<rharper> yay another carry !
<smoser> #ACTION: dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : dpb to look into a few open issues around automatic updates that were pointed out by the doc team (carried over)
<smoser> #ACTION: rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rharper to write a server guide entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<smoser> #ACTION: rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : rharper to write a release notes entry on v2 yaml support in cloud-init (carried over)
<smoser> ok...
<smoser> lets see
<smoser> tweard? are we going to go 0 for 7 ?
<smoser> teward,
<smoser> ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<smoser> ?
<smoser> carrying that over in 5... 4...
<smoser> #ACTION: teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: : teward to add release notes blurb for nginx (1.10.x -> 1.12.x) (carried over)
<smoser> moving on
<smoser> #topic Artful Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Artful Development
<smoser> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> #subtopic blueprints
<smoser> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-aa-server-core
<cpaelzer> I have made some changes to the doc
<cpaelzer> in regard to DPDK not moving to 17.05 in artful
<cpaelzer> Reason is that latest Openvswitch only supportes up to the latest DPDK stable release
<smoser> anyone else have things of note here ?
<smoser> #subtopic Release Bugs
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
 * smoser is looking at the cloud-init one. i need to get that uploaded to artful
<smoser> but part of it at least is fixed.
<smoser> and i believe the other is fix-committed to
 * smoser will update those
<smoser> nacc, you've got bug 1605278
<ubottu> bug 1605278 in python-django (Ubuntu Artful) "Merge python-django 1:1.11-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605278
<smoser> anything there?
<smoser> ok. moving on.
<smoser> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd)
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<smoser> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ahasenack> I could use a sponsor for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1677329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1677329 in samba (Ubuntu Zesty) "libpam-winbind: unable to dlopen" [High,In progress]
<ahasenack> it was verified by two users (one built it himself, the other used my ppa)
<smoser> anyone able to help ahasenack ?
<smoser> crickets
<ahasenack> it's in the queue :)
<ahasenack> this was just a nudge
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> Last week I think I finally closed with others in the Desktop side on ISO testing and have server ISO testing going smoothly again for now. Still work to do there to make it more robust, resilient, and visible.
<powersj> This week working on metric collection for various ubuntu server projects and data points. Plan to also start laying out some of the proposed testing jobs in jenkins that I have wanted to do.
<powersj> questions?
 * smoser is excited to see metric collection
<dpb1> +1!
<smoser> will you post links and what you have when you have them to ubuntu-server mailing list ?
<powersj> sure
<smoser> \o/
<smoser> anyone have questions for mr. powers ?
<smoser> ok then
<smoser> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Progress towards a 4.11 kernel in artful is looking good, though I have no ETA when exactly it will go in. Apart from that no news. Are there questions?
 * smoser has no on-topic questions for smb
<smoser> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<smoser> https://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<smoser> enlightenment developer days CFP ends May 29.
<smoser> Debconf 17 CFP ends Sunday Jun 4
<nacc> smoser: sorry, was afk for a bit -- django is waiting on testing from openstack and maas teams
<smoser> anyone have any other CFP they want to mention?
<smoser> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> Anything here ?
<smoser> Actually...
<cpaelzer> well, sprint soon - but since it is a non public event not that important here I guess
<dpb1> Let's do another bug squashing day the first full week of June when the Canonical server folks are sprinting?
<ahasenack> that was my thought
<cpaelzer> that is a good idea
<dpb1> might be good to get that on the calendar
<smoser> yeah.
<smoser> i'm going to action dpb1 to do that
<dpb1> ...
<dpb1> taken!
<dpb1> :)
<cpaelzer> and pleas update the wiki header with the new date
<smoser> #ACTION dpb1 coordinate bug squashing day first full week of June and report back.
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb1 coordinate bug squashing day first full week of June and report back.
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> shoot
<smoser> missed a section
<smoser> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<smoser> anyone have anythign for open discussion?
<ahasenack> ah
<ahasenack> we talked about this a few meetings ago
<ahasenack> server guide updates
<ahasenack> https://code.launchpad.net/~ahasenack/serverguide/samba-ldap-fixes/+merge/324433 is the last MP for the samba-ldap fixes
<smoser> theres a bunch of action items for people :)
<ahasenack> once that lands, I will request a new publication
<ahasenack> that's it, just a fyi
<smoser> alright.
<smoser> now on to our next topic
<smoser> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<smoser> next chair will be rbasak
<smoser> meeting time
<smoser> Tue, 30 May 2017 16:00:00 +0000
<smoser> that concludes our show for today
<powersj> \o/
<smoser> smoser out
<powersj> thx smoser
<smoser> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 23 16:23:48 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-23-16.01.moin.txt
<ahasenack> thx smoser
<slashd> smoser, I should have noticed you before, I'm on PTO today, will be there next meeting
<smoser> slashd, you're allowed to take a day off every once in a while
<smoser> but just dont make a habit of it
<smoser> ;)
<slashd> smoser, ;) rofl
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-25
<rbalint1> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> o/
<cyphermox> slangasek might not be there yet?
<cyphermox> we still doing that meeting?
<infinity> Ã'd vote for another hour of sleep.
<doko> hmm ... am I the only one awake in PDX?
<cyphermox> too late, if you're there to ask.
<cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 25 15:08:25 2017 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> doko: I'm mostly awake
<cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e doko bdmurray slangasek infinity sil2100 cyphermox tdaitx xnox mwhudson rbalint)
<cyphermox> bdmurray doko rbalint tdaitx sil2100 xnox slangasek infinity cyphermox mwhudson
<doko> bdmurray: wasn't that the greater area? ;)
<cyphermox> ahah :)
<bdmurray> SRU team work
<bdmurray> uploaded u-r-u removing aufs support (LP: #1605259)
<bdmurray> uploaded / tested a fix for unattended-upgrades (LP: #1649709)
<bdmurray> investigation into unattended-upgrades bug (LP: #1690980)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1605259 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade --sandbox fails" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1605259
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1649709 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unatttended-upgrades 0.92ubuntu3 installs all updates but update-manager is set to only install security automatically" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "No pop-up window to warn users that system should not reboot or shutdown while installing security updates" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<bdmurray> submitted upstream uanttended-upgrades PRs
<bdmurray> worked with webops regarding removing EoL core files from swift
<bdmurray> modified EoL core file removal code to review all objects in swift
<bdmurray> submitted RT re removal of all EoL core files (406 removed)
<bdmurray> researched / tested release upgrades skipping EoL releases
<bdmurray> reported u-r-u bug regarding skipping EoL releases (LP: #1692092)
<bdmurray> investigation into package bug duplicate sig shortening (LP: #1692127)
<bdmurray> uploaded artful fix for apport duplicate sig shortening (LP: #1692127)
<bdmurray> modified meta-release-proposed for Zesty SRU of dist-upgrader
<bdmurray> Zesty SRU verification of the fix for LP: #1692092
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692092 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Zesty) "not possible to upgrade from Xenial and jump over an unsupported release" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692092
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692127 in apport (Ubuntu Zesty) "duplicate signature for Package problems can be too short" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692127
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding cdimage(?) bug LP: #1692876
<bdmurray> submitted RT re daisy-retracer charm update (requeue cronjob)
<bdmurray> reported software-properties bug LP: #1693032 (missing dep)
<bdmurray> reported software-properties bug LP: #1693038 (reboot support for derivatives)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1692876 in Ubuntu CD Images "ubuntu-server ARM64 ISO images not EFI compliant" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1692876
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693032 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "missing dependency on gnome-session-bin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1693032
<bdmurray> reported apport bug LP: #1693040 (bad crash sig)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693038 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "needs to support restart on Lubuntu and Xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1693038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693040 in Apport "crash signature for Python Tracebacks can be too generic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1693040
<bdmurray> â  done
<doko> - currently at PyCon
<doko> - GCC fixes
<doko> (done)
<rbalint1> * Finished Azure image
<rbalint1> * triaged LP: #1629226
<rbalint1> * testing build ordering for rebuilding packages with PIE on newly PIEd architectures
<rbalint1> * triaging some FTBFS-s
<rbalint1> EOF
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629226 in The Ubuntu-power-systems project "Bash exits after a few failed fork()-s" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629226
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK
<tdaitx>   * Packaged 7u141
<tdaitx>   * jtreg 4.2 concurrency improves build times from 1.4x to 2.9x (avg 2.4x)
<tdaitx>   * fixed a few problems in the packaging that affected Debian (sorry about that doko).
<tdaitx>   * Proposed to split OpenJDK into security and non-security updates (ongoing)
<tdaitx> = JCK
<tdaitx>   * Automation & 8u131 testing
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx>   * Watched the latest TH episode
<tdaitx>   * Setting up stuff for the sprint (ongoing)
<tdaitx>   * Local LXD decided that I had a ZFS pool instead of Btrfs; seems like a bad lxd "patch" or something, some sql-fu fixed that; mental note: keep continuous backup of the lxd.db file
<tdaitx> (done)
<cyphermox> TH?
<sil2100> Town Hall?
<tdaitx> Town Hall =)
<cyphermox> ah
<sil2100> - Kernel SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100>   * Reviews
<sil2100>   * Restored my broken canonistack instance with kernel-work notification bots
<sil2100>   * Add an automated script for notifying me of new signed binaries needing approval
<sil2100> - Regular SRU work
<sil2100> - walinuxagent:
<sil2100>   * Prepared 2.2.11 and ran some tests
<sil2100>   * Raised blocker issues to Pat and Microsoft, blocked until fixes in with 2.2.12
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Tested edge snap, found issues with the snap contents
<sil2100>   * Prepared fix, testing follows
<sil2100>   * Added snap hook support test
<sil2100> - Booking flights
<sil2100> - DMB meeting + handling Colin's application through e-mail
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> raxonmetal image accepted by customer, still needs SRUs to build final image
<xnox> WSL app in good condition, ready for internal testing, need to hangover
<xnox> * handover
<xnox> systemd SRU + Security updates
<xnox> xe-guest-utilities packaging new upstream (currently in ppa)
<xnox> on holiday next week, sprinting the week after
<xnox> ..
<doko> rbalint: was there anything for PIE which wasn't fixable by no change uploads?
<infinity> Two-day week due to illness and long weekend:
<infinity>  * General SRU/AA tasks
<infinity>  * Plan release schedules out to 19.04 (still need to commit)
<infinity>  * Dicussions with Andy about fixing docker for new systemd
<infinity>  * Fix dpkg for PIE on all arches
<infinity>  * Working on glibc upstream/debian/ubuntu CI
<infinity> (done)
<xnox> to 19.04 o_O wow
<xnox> that would be useful, even if we keep on twidling it.
<cyphermox> - short week, off on Monday for Victoria day (Jour des patriotes)
<cyphermox> - netcfg SRU for resolvconf (bug LP: #1646585)
<cyphermox> - netplan release 0.22; accompanying SRUs.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1646585 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Xenial) "oem-config replaces /etc/resolv.conf symlink with a hard file" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1646585
<cyphermox> - review/upload slideshow changes for Kubuntu 17.10
<cyphermox>   - followed by fixing syntax...
<cyphermox> - testing, upload grub2 EFI updates
<cyphermox> - discuss ubiquity Qt gui changes for lubuntu-next
<cyphermox> - writeup for Secure Boot documentation
<cyphermox> - sponsor vlan update from ddstreet (bug LP: #1573272)
<cyphermox> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1573272 in vlan (Ubuntu Zesty) "default gateway route not installed for bond interfaces through reboot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1573272
<rbalint> doko: i'm not finished yet, but almost everything can be fixed that way
<cyphermox> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<cyphermox> do we haz anything else to discuss?
<rbalint> doko: in ~2 rounds, the first for the static libs
<bdmurray> rbalint, xnox: I'm looking at bug 1690980 - which is mis-titled
<ubottu> bug 1690980 in OEM Priority Project "No pop-up window to warn users that system should not reboot or shutdown while installing security updates" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1690980
<bdmurray> a wee bit ago caribou made some changes to the unattended-upgrades systemd shutdwon unit and it seems they work on Y and Z but not X
<cyphermox> ah?
<bdmurray> I need to confirm but it should be all the same code so I suspect something w/ systemd on X
<cyphermox> yeah, seems like it should just work
<bdmurray> I'll test again to confirm but may need some help.
<cyphermox> I'm thinking we might need to think of some way to massage meeting output to those reports that need to happen
<cyphermox> bdmurray: I'll be happy to help testing, I think my X230 is on xenial right now
<cyphermox> AOB: going once, going twice...
<xnox> bdmurray, ouch.
<bdmurray> thanks, testing is easy in some vms I have. Its just if its not u-u I don't know where to look.
<cyphermox> bdmurray: systemd in X is not quite as solid as in Y or Z, if experience with networkd is a good meter to the rest
<cyphermox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 25 15:18:25 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-05-25-15.08.moin.txt
 * rbalint looking at the bug
<bdmurray> cyphermox: right on
<sil2100> o/
<cyphermox> thanks everyone ;)
<sil2100> Thanks cyphermox for chairing
<cyphermox> tbf, I just follow a script I made
<cyphermox> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cyphermox/meetings/foundations.html
<cyphermox> it's all copy pasta.
 * sil2100 bookmarks
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-05-27
<serelt94> Hello. I am from server maintenance.
<serelt94> I understand nobody will be using this channel until Tuesday morning at the absolute earliest.
<serelt94> So the administration has requested that I perform maintenance this weekend.
<trevier65> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<trevier65> !ops
<trevier65> !ops
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-21
<ratliff> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 21 16:32:35 2018 UTC.  The chair is ratliff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ratliff> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<ratliff> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<ratliff> There are no announcements this week.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<ratliff> jdstrand: you're up
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> This week I plan to work on:
<jdstrand> - look into options for linkat/apparmor bug #1772097
<jdstrand> - miscellaneous policy updates
<jdstrand> - resquashfs failures (followup with upstream, review-tools updates, etc)
<jdstrand> - anbox-support interface
<jdstrand> - finish part ii of phase 1 of snap USNs
<jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
<ubottu> bug 1772097 in AppArmor "apparmor 'l' denial when using linkat() with attach_disconnected" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1772097
<sbeattie> fI'm on bug triage this week
<sbeattie> I've got an embargoed issue to deal with
<sbeattie> I've got the usual set of kernel triage bits to do, and catch up on some apparmor reviews.
<sbeattie> And I need to pick up an update or two.
<sbeattie> jjohansen1: you're up
<jjohansen1> I will be reviewing some LSM stacking and apparmor networking patches
<jjohansen1> I have some conference prep to do, and then I will be traveling and at a conference for the last 3? (5 days of the week)
<jjohansen1> that is it for me, sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'll finish the gce-compute-image-packages mir, start in on profiling some pcp daemons, and read apparmor patches as I can; I also hope to make some progress on applying to debconf
<sarnold> I think that's it for me, .. chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I've got a thunderbird update to do and a chromium update to test and publish
<chrisccoulson> other than that, I'm doing the rust 1.26.0 update. Once I've overcome the first hurdle and figured out why it doesn't build on any architecture, no doubt it will delight me with other issues to investigate
<chrisccoulson> realistically, that's probably going to be my entire week
<chrisccoulson> that's me done
<ratliff> I'm on CVE triage this week.
<ratliff> I have some internal work to do and work on an embargoed issue.
<ratliff> over to you, leosilva
<leosilva> I'm in happy place this week
<leosilva> I have a xdg update to USN in few minutes.
<leosilva> other than that I'm researching for cves/pkgs to udpate.
<leosilva> ratliff: it's back to yu
<ratliff> thanks!
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<ratliff> The Ubuntu Security team suggests that contributors look into merging Debian security updates in community-supported packages. If you would like to help Ubuntu but are not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<ratliff> See http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/d2u/ for available merges and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details on preparing Ubuntu security updates. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<ratliff> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<ratliff> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<ratliff> jdstrand, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson, leosilva: Thanks!
<ratliff> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon May 21 16:45:19 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-21-16.32.moin.txt
<jjohansen1> thanks ratliff
<leosilva> thanks ratliff!
<sbeattie> ratliff: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks ratliff!
<jdstrand> thanks ratliff! :)
<rbasak> o/
 * tsimonq2 waves
<tsimonq2> Do we have a reason to meet?
<sil2100> o/
<sil2100> Sorry guys for missing the start of the meeting, I'm a bit deep in work
<sil2100> Missed the notification completely
<sil2100> Did the meeting start/end already?
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> It's just tsimonq2, me and you.
<tsimonq2> Do we have anything to discuss?
<rbasak> cyphermox is presumably off today the same as slashd?
<tsimonq2> Both of the action items are done.
<sil2100> We don't have much on the agenda anyway, I see we're already members of the DMB team so that's covered
<rbasak> We're good then.
<rbasak> Does anyone know how to get ubottu dmb-ping updated?
<rbasak> I can't think of anything else.
<sil2100> I guess we'll need to invite slashd to the internal channel
<sil2100> rbasak: I once knew who could do that, let me check the logs
<tsimonq2> rbasak: I'd ask in #ubuntu-ops or -irc
<wxl> what should it be?
<tsimonq2> I do have one AOB item, but I'm on mobile, so give me a min. :)
<sil2100> wxl: we'll need to update the list to "cyphermox, jbicha, micahg, rbasak, sil2100, slashd, tsimonq2" I guess ?
<rbasak> Requested. See #ubuntu-devel.
<sil2100> Ah, convenient!
<sil2100> Last time Unit193 did the change for me
 * tsimonq2 pastes...
<tsimonq2> infinity and I had a conversation the other day; he'd like to push for a Core Developer only DMB policy, but obviously, he can't push for that if not all of the current DMB are Core Developers... So he wanted me to ask for help in gaining the necessary skills and practice to go for that.
<tsimonq2> So, please do ping me if you have stuff to do. Seriously, I'm all ears. ;)
<wxl> factoid updated, folks.
<rbasak> So no normal meeting today then. Thanks everyone!
<tsimonq2> Thanks!
<sil2100> Thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-22
<re432> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<re432> !ops
<re432> !ops
<re432> !ops
<strew43> !ops
<ubottu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
<strew43> !ops
<Flannel> strew43: Please stop that.  Thanks.
<strew43> ok
<strew43> sorry
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-23
<donofrio_> #info
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-24
<sil2100> o/
<juliank> o/
<philroche> \o
<rbalint> o/
<philroche> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 24 15:05:45 2018 UTC.  The chair is philroche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<philroche> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<philroche> echo $(shuf -e slangasek bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke juliank fginther)
<philroche> fginther Odd_Bloke juliank slangasek tdaitx doko mwhudson sil2100 philroche xnox rcj rbalint bdmurray infinity cyphermox
<fginther> winning!
<fginther> * Publish images to resolve CVE-2018-3639
<fginther> * Meet with partner and review an updated publication API
<fginther> * Build system vanguard
<ubottu> Systems with microprocessors utilizing speculative execution and speculative execution of memory reads before the addresses of all prior memory writes are known may allow unauthorized disclosure of information to an attacker with local user access via a side-channel analysis, aka Speculative Store Bypass (SSB), Variant 4. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2018-3639)
<fginther> (done)
<fginther> juliank:
<philroche> Odd_Bloke is OoO
<juliank> * short week (Mon holiday, Tue out)
<juliank> * apt timeout handling fixes (bug 1766542, https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/merge_requests/18/)
<ubottu> bug 1766542 in apt (Ubuntu) "Installation blocks when the machine is behind a proxy server" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766542
<juliank> * tried to reproduce bug 1768905, but failed :(
<ubottu> bug 1768905 in menu (Ubuntu) "package menu 2.1.47ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768905
<juliank> * preparations for new apt release (hitting merge buttons :D)
<juliank> (done)
<philroche> slangasek is OoO. tdaitx?
<tdaitx> * openjdk-7 security update: updated to use recently committed upstream 7u181 patches, rebuilding
<tdaitx> * triaging openjdk bugs (LP: #1770278, LP: #1765914, LP: #1769405, LP: #1762999, LP: #1767726, and the top openjdk-lts failures on errors.ubuntu.com)
<tdaitx> Other:
<tdaitx> - travelling to Portland on Saturday if my flights are not affected by the national strike
<tdaitx> - away next week, ping on telegram or email
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1770278 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "Swing applications look strange with OpenJDK-11" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1770278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1765914 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Java windows and fonts are huge running in openjdk-11-jre" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1765914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1769405 in openjdk-lts (Ubuntu) "In GTK+ Look-And-Feel, Slider Controls Have No Visible Handle" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1769405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762999 in scilab (Ubuntu) "Unable to start Scilab 6.0.1 on bionic because of missed Java" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762999
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767726 in ca-certificates-java (Ubuntu) "LibreOfficeBase_installation_-package ca-certificates-java 20170930ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: installed ca-certificates-java package post-installation script subprocess returned error exit status 134" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767726
<doko> oops, sorry
<doko> short week, came back from PyCon, Monday bank holiday ...
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Kernel SRUs
<sil2100> - security-britney:
<sil2100>   * Writing up a new service request for britney security, waiting for IS
<sil2100>   * Writing some basic nagios checks + trying to test them on canonistack (nrpe-external-master...)
<sil2100> - Preparing some urgent cloud packages with rcj
<sil2100> - core18:
<sil2100>   * Enabling systemd-timesyncd to work with core18
<sil2100>   * Prep hack for cases of upgrades from older core18 systems to fixup directories for timesyncd
<sil2100>   * Minor PR reviews
<sil2100>   * Started work on getting the uid/gid mappings in place
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image classic raspi3
<sil2100>   * Pushed PR for cross-building, need to look into the u-i CI situation
<sil2100> - Preparing and pushing new google-cloud-sdk packages to partner -proposed for older series
<sil2100> - Might be a bit awayish next week
<sil2100> (done)
<philroche> * Annual leave last week
<philroche> * Interviewing candidates
<philroche> * Publishing cloud images for CVE -2018-3639 - Spectre Variant 4
<philroche> * Cloud image build system Vanguard
<philroche> (done)
<philroche> xnox:
<xnox> systemd bionic SRU is in proposed, with matching upload in cosmic proposed.
<xnox> LP: #1762385
<xnox> LP: #1768104
<xnox> LP: #1766969
<xnox> LP: #1771791
<xnox> LP: #1760106
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762385 in OEM Priority Project "dell_wmi: Unknown key codes" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1762385
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768104 in systemd (Ubuntu Cosmic) "systemd sometimes misdetects Xen VMs (fixed up-stream)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768104
<xnox> mdadm updated in cosmic for VROC, but not able to test it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1766969 in systemd (Ubuntu Artful) "DNS cannot be resolved in Public / Hotel / Starbucks WiFi Hotspot" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1766969
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1771791 in systemd (Debian) "Need to pre-depend on stuff used by systemctl, so systemctl works in other package's preinst" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1771791
<xnox> btrfs-progs migrated, by keeping btrfs-tools provides because of maas/curtin installer.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1760106 in klibc (Ubuntu Cosmic) "FFe: Enable configuring resume offset via sysfs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1760106
<xnox> working through systemd-journald crash reports / re: stopped. Basically persistent journal, often is killed with watchdog timout, about 10k crashes a month so far. The options there is to publish the pending artful SRU to revert enablement of persistent journal. Longer term, probably disable journald watchdog.
<xnox> Reviewed python2 based seeds. Want to split up freeradius into subpackage.
<xnox> done
<philroche> rcj:
<rcj> * urgent private partner work
<rcj> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * suggested adding lxc/vm backend to piuparts BTS #899000
<rbalint> * fixed piuparts issue testing systemd https://salsa.debian.org/debian/piuparts/merge_requests/1
<rbalint> * in progress of migrating my dev env to newly installed Bionic on new laptop
<rbalint> * updated gce-compute-image-packages in trusty-proposed
<rbalint> * updated Ubuntu on Windows and Ubuntu 16.04 on Windows to new launcher and recent Xenial snapshot
<rbalint>   https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/ubuntu/9nblggh4msv6
<rbalint>   https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/ubuntu-1604/9pjn388hp8c9
<rbalint> * released unattended-upgrades 1.2 and 1.2ubuntu1, backport to all releases is under test
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> submitted RTs regarding removing a couple of core files from swift
<bdmurray> looked into amd64 retracing queue not hitting 0 over the weekend
<bdmurray> investigation into issue with the cassandra charm failing (DSE 5.1 nrpe check)
<bdmurray> modified error tracker charms to improve setting / switching of cassandra server
<bdmurray> tested switching of cassandra server in staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> modified daisy charm's timeout period for connecting to a cassandra server
<bdmurray> SRU verification of LP: #1768620 (come to find out universe was disabled)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1768620 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "removal_blacklist.cfg updates" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1768620
<bdmurray> emailed Community Council about a problematic bug triager and replied to thread
<bdmurray> modified bugbot to handle Launchpad users that are Gone
<bdmurray> bug triage of LP: #1767468
<bdmurray> discussed an openjdk-lts retrace issue with tdaitx (https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/dd8ed9725faaa597ea14be911442e5284262e317)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1767468 in nux (Ubuntu) "Upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04, then uninstalling unity disables hardware acceleration" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1767468
<bdmurray> review of didrocks' ubuntu-release-upgrader telemetry MP
<bdmurray> overrode increased rate of crashes for libvirt per discussion w/ cpaelzer & rbasak
<bdmurray> uploaded then rejected an apport SRU for bionic
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> * netplan SRUs, various other SRUs
<cyphermox> * fixing SB DKMS bug on kernel upgrade
<cyphermox> * livecd-rootfs snap preseeding in xenial
<cyphermox> (done)
<philroche> Thank you all.
<philroche> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB
<bdmurray> I'm out half of Friday and Monday is a US holiday.
<rcj> I'm out Monday as well
<fginther> I'm out Monday, Thursday, Friday next week
<xnox> UK holiday Mondday
<rbalint> i'll be around :-)
<bdmurray> There aren't any bugs worth discussing today.
<philroche> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 24 15:20:54 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-05-24-15.05.moin.txt
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-05-26
<mIk3_08> chanserv help
<YVI0LHHurricaneH> THIS IS AN EMERGENCY NOTICE THIS IS NOT SPAM: THIS NOTICE IS CURRENTLY GOING OUT TO ALL CHANNELS THROUGH THE FREENODE EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION SYSTEM: GRUMBLE HAS INADVERTENTLY NOT RESET THE FREENODE SECURITY PASSWORD CAUSING A BREAK IN FREENODE SECURITY WHERE ALL PASSWORDS HAVE BEEN RELEASED. PLEASE SEE GRUMLE IN #FREENODE FOR INFORMATION ON HOW TO SECURE YOUR ACCOUNT!!
<YVI0LHHurricaneH> YVI0LHHurricaneH pavlushka lifeless jjohansen phunyguy maclin hggdh DJones mdeslaur chrisccoulson ratliff CyberHacker teward donofrio DalekSec ogasawara ogra_ cpaelzer fginther bdrung WaVeR acheronuk sgclark Spydar007 doko chiluk ubot9 JanC markthomas jdstrand Mmike tinwood Flannel marcoceppi wxl Tm_T benonsoftware wxl[m] lamont Adri2000 ahoneybun lionel negronjl vtapia slickymaster pleia2 LocutusOfBorg fnordahl rbalint mariogrip popey
<stressiters> TESTING TESTING
<stressiters> MAintenance is in progress now
<stressiters> TESTING TESTING
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-20
<rbasak> o/
<rbasak> Who's here?
<ddstreet> o/
<sil2100> o/
<sarnold> ohai!
<rbasak> We need one more for quorum, as we have one proxy vote.
<ddstreet> ping me if anyone else shows up, please
<rbasak> It looks like we'll have to postpone, sorry.
<rbasak> It's my evening, so I don't want to hang around if I can't be useful.
<sil2100> It seems to be a holiday in Canada, so at least two of our members are out
<sil2100> ddstreet: apologies for that, but would you be fine attending the next meeting in 2 weeks?
<ddstreet> sil2100 i am not sure if i can make the mtg in 2 weeks...i am very busy this summer
<ddstreet> i think my next available dmb mtg is fall, so i'll just reschedule for then, i guess
<sil2100> ddstreet: darn it, should we try via e-mail?
<ddstreet> that's fine with me, i assume you're asking the other dmb members
<sil2100> ddstreet: we have nothing to loose basically - we'll do our best to carry it out in a timely fashion (if it slips again, well, not much we can do instead pinging people)
<sil2100> *lose
<sil2100> rbasak, ddstreet: ^ let me start the e-mail thread then
<rbasak> Thanks
<sil2100> Thread started
 * sil2100 also goes EOD
<sil2100> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-21
<doko> hi there
<doko> no MIR people here?
<didrocks> I'm around, but nothing to discuss
<cpaelzer> same as didrocks
<cpaelzer> I also saw nothing new coming in the last week that would not have been picked by one of us already
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-05-23
<sil2100> o/
 * xnox 0/
 * vorlon waves
<xnox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 23 15:08:16 2019 UTC.  The chair is xnox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<xnox> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<xnox> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson juliank waveform)
<xnox> mwhudson bdmurray waveform vorlon tdaitx doko xnox rbalint sil2100 cyphermox infinity juliank
<xnox> weekly ping of mwhudson =)
<xnox> bdmurray:  you are up
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to eoan, enabled crash reporting
<bdmurray>  - Decrease zlib compression level from 9 to 6 (LP: #1537635)
<bdmurray>  - move python3-launchpadlib from a Suggests to a Depends (LP: #1824002)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1537635 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "Reduce zlib compression level for massive performance increase" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1537635
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824002 in apport (Ubuntu Eoan) "python3-launchpadlib needs promotion from suggests" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824002
<bdmurray> synchronized upstream apport branch and Ubuntu one
<bdmurray> tested new version of apport in the staging Error Tracker
<bdmurray> submitted RT regarding update apport in production Error Tracker
<bdmurray> updated apport branch used by the Launchpad retracers
<bdmurray> resolved unicode Traceback with apport in production, got fix deployed
<bdmurray> create an apport-test-crash with unicode in it
<bdmurray> verified fix for u-r-u dependency bug LP: #1824866
<bdmurray> uploaded apport symptoms fixing (LP: #1789516)
<bdmurray> investigation / testing of LP: #1823398
<bdmurray> sent email to ubuntu-devel regarding mlocate's usefulness
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1824866 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "python3-distupgrade missing a dep on python3-distro-info" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1824866
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1789516 in apport-symptoms (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-bug crashes when filing bug for usb storage when udisks2 is not installed." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789516
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823398 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "setvtrgb causes boot delays in clouds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823398
<bdmurray> done
<xnox> waveform_:
<rbalint> o/
<gaughen> xnox, he's sick
<xnox> ah
<xnox> vorlon:  then
<vorlon> roadmap sprint last week, travel swap Monday
<vorlon> a few merges, livecd-rootfs sponsorships, SRU reviews, MP reviews
<vorlon> discussions about the set of architectures for Ubuntu 20.04
<vorlon> nothing else to report
<vorlon> (done)
<tdaitx> * uploaded eoan fix for LP: #1825604, LP: #1828427, LP: #1825037
<tdaitx>   - bionic/cosmic packages are waiting review by security team
<tdaitx>   - disco needs sru
<tdaitx> * checked & tested new bionic jenkins slaves
<tdaitx> * investigating LP: #1811695
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825604 in netbeans (Ubuntu) "Netbeans 10 requires openjdk-11" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1828427 in netbeans (Debian) "Netbeans fails to create a java project with NoSuchMethodError" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1828427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1825037 in scilab (Ubuntu) "scilab-cli and scilab-adv-cli does not start on bionic, cosmic, disco and eoan" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1825037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1811695 in update-manager (Ubuntu Disco) "/usr/bin/update-manager:RuntimeError(org.freedesktop.DBus.Python.RuntimeError):_on_clicked:_deferable..." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1811695
<xnox> doko:  ? or are you out?
<sil2100> Yes he is out
<xnox> = Progress =
<xnox> * forwarded busybox bug upstream, cherrypick their fix.
<xnox> * unbreak perl openssl hangs in eoan (everything migrated)
<xnox> * prepare perl openssl hang fix for bionic
<xnox> * upload finalrd backport to bionic
<xnox> * unbreak mdadm init.d scripts causing failure to install
<xnox> * review nova SRUs, fixup test cases in eoan
<xnox> * upload d-i to get kernel to migrate in eoan
<xnox> * fixup multipath-tools failing to install encrypted devices in d-i
<xnox> * demote python2.7 to universe, and fixup a few python2 packages that
<xnox>   try to sneak back in via -doc
<xnox> * upload initramfs-tools such that it is able to auto-bring up ip=
<xnox>   qeth interfaces on s390x.
<xnox> * s390-tools new upstream release
<xnox> * split ubiquity panel into a subpackage
<xnox> * in progress unbreaking ucode updates in Ubuntu Core images
<xnox> = Blocked on =
<xnox> SRU bionic
<xnox> * libio-socket-ssl-perl (3 months now)
<xnox> * libnet-ssleay-perl (1m 18 days now)
<xnox> * ruby2.5 SRU bionic Unapproved (1 month now)
<xnox> * libww-perl  (2 days)
<xnox> * finalrd SRU bionic NEW (0 days)
<xnox> vorlon: should all of openssl srus be yanked out, to let python3.7 point
<xnox> releases through?
<xnox> Seed changes
<xnox> * ubiquity panel split LP: #1830201
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1830201 in ubuntustudio-meta (Ubuntu) "ubiquity-frontend-gtk and ubiquity-frontend-gtk-panel split" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830201
<xnox> (done)
<xnox> rbalint:
<rbalint> * prepared wireshark security updates for stable releases
<rbalint> * updated gce-compute-image-packages including preparing SRUs
<rbalint> * (highlight) updated Ubuntu on Windows apps to 20190521 daily build with added WSL utilities
<rbalint> * gardened WSL-related bugs
<rbalint> * prepared fix for LP: #1823070, on review
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1823070 in unattended-upgrades (Ubuntu) "unattended-upgrades should tell the user (via motd) when security updates are held back" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1823070
<rbalint> * looking at https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/12616 , a regression coming with the fix for LP: #1803993
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1803993 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Password appears on the VT1 screen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1803993
<rbalint> * meetings and discussions
<rbalint> (done)
<xnox> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100> - Lots of kernel SRU reviews
<sil2100> - Short DMB meeting
<sil2100> - ubuntu-image:
<sil2100>   * Verifying the 1.7 SRU for x/bb/dd/cc
<sil2100>   * Verifying and releasing the ubuntu-image stable snap
<sil2100>   * Prepared changes to livecd-rootfs for handling /boot/grub updates for classic images
<sil2100> - Reviewed and released Dave's flash-kernel merge
<sil2100> - Released new core18 into stable, investigated if the auto-build infrastructure still works
<sil2100> - Getting a final review of the britney SRU ADT regression commenting
<sil2100>   * Merged, but still needs a few fixes. Buggy as hell!
<sil2100> - Generating .publish_info files for stable core images on cdimage
<vorlon> xnox: I know of no reason to be concerned about the timing of the python3.7 point release SRUs
<sil2100> - Fixing cdimage .publish_info generation to include a newline at the end
<sil2100> - Debugging issues with kernel-sru-review not auto-accepting uefi binaries during review
<sil2100>   * Figured out the reason was my system clock being out-of-sync, geh
<sil2100>   * Still, as part of the debugging, rewrote the auto-approval logic not to needlessly wait 10 seconds
<sil2100> (done)
<xnox> vorlon:  ok. it's just upstreams are pestering doko.
<xnox> cyphermox:  ? (out right?)
<xnox> juliank:
<juliank>  * (half-day out on Friday)
<juliank>  * Organized DebConf19 invoicing
<juliank>  * PackageKit hacking for socket-activated DebConf helper
<juliank>  * Preparing for apt 1.8.2 and friends, merging the patch for TLS session renegotiation; figuring out whether to merge my unlock order change or not.
<juliank>  * less magic ESM (https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-advantage-client/issues/520)
<juliank>  * lvm2/eoan upload to fix path to systemd-run in udev rule (LP: #1830169); other releases coming later
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1830169 in Ubuntu on IBM z Systems "lvm udev rule fails to call systemd-run" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1830169
<juliank>  * (next week EOW on Tuesday)
<juliank> (done)
 * juliank does have more bug numbers but forgot to add them to the items :/
<xnox> yeah
 * xnox is out Friday - Monday (swap day + bank holiday, warsaw volleyball tournament)
<vorlon> the US is also out Monday
 * rbalint is out from next Tuesday
<xnox> #topic Release incoming bugs (eoan)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs (eoan)
<xnox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
<bdmurray> So juliank, cyphermox and I have been reviewing other rls tagged bugs and tagged some with ee for discussion
<bdmurray> bug 807259
<ubottu> bug 807259 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "MetaRelease.download() Issue after Captive Portal" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807259
<bdmurray> This has been around for quite a while and seems worth fixing.
<cyphermox> I'm around; sorry. I was suprised by my parents visiting at an inopportune time
<juliank> bdmurray: Should be fixed since the move to https?
<bdmurray> I hope they brought food
<bdmurray> juliank: so you think it is worth testing again?
<xnox> juliank:  should it like query gnome if there is or isn't network connectivity from the checker?
<juliank> bdmurray: yeah
<juliank> xnox: hmm, meh, it would just show you nothing if the cert is wrtong
<xnox> right
<bdmurray> anyway the point is should we card it?
<vorlon> so, this looks manageable this cycle, +1 for putting it on the list
<bdmurray> okay, targetting to EE
<bdmurray> bug 1218702 - cyphermox can you speak this one?
<ubottu> bug 1218702 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity resizes partition even when not asked to." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1218702
<cyphermox> an old ubiquity bug
<cyphermox> basically, moving from MiB to MB or the other way around confuses partman
<cyphermox> possibly also cylinder alignment?
<cyphermox> I think it's worth at least checking carefully that those ^ are handled correctly
<vorlon> what is the impact of this bug?  they're formatting the partition, so what does it matter if it's also resized in the process
<cyphermox> it's not quite the same size as people expect it to be
<vorlon> unless I'm missing something I would decline this one
<cyphermox> (but also, it might resize partitions they aren't changing, IIUC)
<vorlon> ok, but "I lost 8M"
<vorlon> that's not a real issue on modern disks
<xnox> it's like 3 floppies!
<vorlon> I lose that much disk in my couch cushions when I sit down
<cyphermox> who cares about 8MiB lost in the grand scheme of things; you probably wouln't notice.
<cyphermox> but if something decides to resize an existing partition that you weren't otherwise touching, that's potentially a much, much slower install
<vorlon> yes, but that's not reported in the ug
<vorlon> bug
<cyphermox> how much do we need to focus on this if we're to have a new installer for desktop?
<vorlon> zero
<vorlon> decline
<cyphermox> ack.
<cyphermox> it's certainly not a new bug in any case
<bdmurray> bug 1503441
<ubottu> bug 1503441 in partman-auto (Ubuntu) "4GB root isn't enough to install Ubuntu" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503441
<cyphermox> similar thing, in a way. we should check that the minimal space calculations are still correct in ubiquity, and the partman-auto recipes are good.
<cyphermox> xnox: I think swap space shouldn't be the issue anymore?
<vorlon> the bug as described definitely doesn't exist today, it's been fixed in the past 4 years
<cyphermox> ok
<vorlon> so I would close it fixed
<xnox> cyphermox:  vorlon: marked it as fixed.
<cyphermox> let's kill that then
<cyphermox> ta
<vorlon> LP: #1680245, I don't think this needs to be here
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1680245 in subiquity (Ubuntu) "subiquity does not take in account existing partition" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1680245
<vorlon> that work is tracked elsewise
<bdmurray> We wanted to follow up with mwh about the status of it
<vorlon> the deb in the Ubuntu archive is not how subiquity is delivered, so I don't think the release tracking bugs dtrt
<bdmurray> ah, okay that's reasonable
<cyphermox> there's still the project bug anyway, we can just drop the tag
<cyphermox> (done)
<vorlon> we didn't discuss LP: #1494851 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1494851 in cryptsetup (Ubuntu) "initramfs cryptroot hook script doesn't install cryptsetup if keyfile but no keyscript" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494851
<cyphermox> don't we have a card about this?
<cyphermox> assigned to beta squad I think
<xnox> hmmmm
<bdmurray> cyphermox: its not tagged with the card one
<xnox> so, it's now split into separate packages......
<cyphermox> or maybe not
<vorlon> according to the comment from juliank the code doesn't exist post-cosmic, so should perhaps be closed
<bdmurray> but what about Bionic?
<xnox> yeah that
<juliank> bionic and xenial should prob be fixed
<xnox> cause i had the autodetection in cosmic-
<xnox> to either include cryptsetup or not
<xnox> and now, it's just a separate package.
<xnox> (which i don't know if we are seeding right)
<vorlon> bdmurray: bionic> orthogonal to the rls-ee-incoming list? :)
<xnox> but i don't care about seeds anymore
<cyphermox> vorlon: but bionic-tracking though
<cyphermox> seb's request was that we see SRUs in the -tracking lists
<cyphermox> as I understood it anyway
<bdmurray> sure but we are looking at the bug now and it was rediscovered when looking at rls-x-incoming
<xnox> i'll try to look into it
<xnox> a few people use that bit of cryptsetup code, from prior work
<xnox> bdmurray:  are we done?
<xnox> shall we move onto proposed-migration report?
<bdmurray> xnox: lets look at bug 1829401 since its undecided
<cyphermox> bdmurray: yeah, what I'm saying is we're reviewing -incomings we couldn't just done on our own; and checking if we pull them in to $release-tracking
<ubottu> bug 1829401 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/software-properties-gtk:TypeError:on_pktask_finish:on_pktask_finish:new_init:__init__:new_init:__init__:new_init" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829401
<juliank> I decided things
<juliank> but not early enough for the meeting
<juliank> :(
<juliank> Now bug 1829401 has a new title
<ubottu> bug 1829401 in packagekit (Ubuntu Eoan) "gi.repository.GLib.GError: pk-client-error-quark: could not do untrusted question as no klass support" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829401
<xnox> bdmurray:  next?
<bdmurray> xnox: I think that's good for today.
<vorlon> proposed-migration, then?
<xnox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Team proposed-migration report
<xnox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<xnox> so next steps for systemd
<gaughen> xnox, do you need any help?
<xnox> is revert balint's patch; merge autopkgtest improvement patches
<vorlon> did something happen to make systemd worse on arm64?
<xnox> possibly merge v242
<vorlon> what's "balint's patch" in this context?
<xnox> vorlon:  i don't know things about arm64 being worse. i thought arm64 got worse across the board in adt, ratehr than just systemd?
<xnox> vorlon:  balint's patch is the VT1 keyboard echo bugfix
<vorlon> xnox: arm64 was failing to boot, and we handled that by stopping the runners in bos02
<xnox> which has regressions
<vorlon> since bos02 was unaffected
<vorlon> ah that patch ok
<vorlon> sorry, bos01 was unaffected
<xnox> ah i see
<vorlon> so any current test failures are unrelated
<rbalint> vorlon, yes, they are unrelated
<rbalint> vorlon, the vt1 fix caused regressions in desktop edge cases
 * vorlon nods
<vorlon> the "I stopped gdm for some reason"
<vorlon> case
 * juliank uploaded broken packagekit, could be removed from proposed
<vorlon> juliank: you want us to delete 1.1.12-5ubuntu1 from -proposed?  or are you going to do a follow-up upload?
<juliank> I'll eventually do one, but it might confuse people in the meantime
<vorlon> (just removing it has the downside that when someone tries to upload again, they reuse the version number that's already burnt)
<vorlon> juliank: so I would leave it there for right now
<juliank> ok
<vorlon> and if we have this conversation again in a week, I'll reconsider :)
<vorlon> I guess I'll retry the cloud-utils/amd64 autopkgtest again
<vorlon> which is possibly racy, or a regression wrt loop devices
<vorlon> and network-manager/ppc64el is going nowhere fast
<vorlon> cyphermox: test_no_ap seems to have become less reliable there, any thoughts?
<xnox> #topic AOB ?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: AOB ?
<cyphermox> I was looking at that
<xnox> no?
<vorlon> cyphermox: ok thanks
<cyphermox> I'd need to look at the code, it's been a while
<xnox> aob going once
<xnox> aob going twice
<vorlon> cyphermox: should we give you a card for that work?
<xnox> aob going thrice
<cyphermox> vorlon: please.
<xnox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 23 16:01:59 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-05-23-15.08.moin.txt
<gaughen> thank you xnox!
<vorlon> thanks, all!
<vorlon> cyphermox: I just noticed we already had a hint for the previous network-manager/ppc64el for the same flakiness, so I'll bump the hint in the meantime
<cyphermox> vorlon: aye. tbh I thought ppc64el had wifi majorly busted in autopkgtests, but all the other wifi tests pass
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-18
<rbasak> o/
<ddstreet> o/
<teward> o/ - note I may not be as active today as I am normally, E:Chaos with active threat mitigations on my network.  And tsimonq2 doing ungodly evil with Lubuntu's CI which also sits on my infrastructure.
<ddstreet> is rafaeldtinoco around, he's up for chairing this week...
<ddstreet> if rafaeldtinoco isn't around, i guess we need either slashd or sil2100 (who doesn't seem to be in here currently) for quorum
<rbasak> I'll give it another couple of minutes
<rbasak> But if we don't get quorum by ten minutes past, I'm going to disappear to get my evening back.
<ddstreet> teward assuming we don't make quorum, are you ok if i take your carried over tasks?  i know you're super busy atm
<teward> ddstreet: that's totally fine, feel free to take my tasks.
<ddstreet> ack, thanks, will do
 * rbasak disappears o/
<ddstreet> looks like no quorum today, sorry for anyone lurking, see you in 2 weeks at next dmb mtg o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-19
<cpaelzer> hiho
<ddstreet> o/
<sarnold> good morning
<cpaelzer> didrocks: doko: ddstreet: sarnold: joeubuntu: jamespage: o/ MIR meeting
<cpaelzer> hopefully fast again, but this time I didn't pre-check all lists (busy day)
<sarnold> thank you all for moving the meeting for me :D this is much nicer :)
<cpaelzer> \o/ sarnold is here
<cpaelzer> as if moving this worked
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 19 14:32:30 2020 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<didrocks> hey
<cpaelzer> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
<cpaelzer> we have set up the new meeting time and added the fast path option to the wiki
<cpaelzer> no new actions to check
<cpaelzer> #topic current component mismatches
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: current component mismatches
<cpaelzer> there are a few new ones to quickly mention in there today :-/
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg
<cpaelzer> #link https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg
<didrocks> appstream is handled on our side, could be just moving -doc to universe, so not a proper MIR needed
<cpaelzer> nice
<cpaelzer> doko: last week said the perl'y things are on them and they are gone
<cpaelzer> thanks foundations
<doko> done
<cpaelzer> worth to mention is some openstack stuff jamespage
<cpaelzer> masakari and deps as well as heat and deps
<cpaelzer> jamespage: do you have any details on those?
<cpaelzer> and while we wait on that answer, does anyone feel responsible for paramiko->python-invoke ?
<cpaelzer> well, jamespage seems to be unavailable today
<cpaelzer> these packages won't move without some effort
<jamespage> cpaelzer: sorry - multi-tasking
<cpaelzer> but we don't have to sit and wait here
<jamespage> but really multi-failing
<cpaelzer> ah o/
<cpaelzer> oO
<jamespage> but here now
<cpaelzer> jamespage: masakari and heat
<cpaelzer> jamespage: what is the plan of action
<jamespage> cpaelzer: yep new deps
<jamespage> great
<cpaelzer> will you file MIRs or modify the packages?
<cpaelzer> I'd think whatever it is we can leave that to you right?
<cpaelzer> and I just relaized that "paramiko" is part of the same
<jamespage> I'll get icey to look into that again
<cpaelzer> python3-tempest -> paramiko -> pytohn-invoke
<jamespage> I though we had dropped sqla-utils from masakari
<cpaelzer> jamespage: would you add paramiko to the list to look at as well?
<cpaelzer> jamespage: I agree, dropping it is what I remember
<cpaelzer> can we leave that to you and next week these are either proprt MIRs or the mismatch is gone ?
<cpaelzer> s/proprt/proper/
<cpaelzer> jamespage: is multitasking again I guess
<cpaelzer> let us consider this on him (and the openstack team) unless he tells us otherwise in next weeks meeting
<cpaelzer> going on with the meeting
<cpaelzer> #topic New MIRs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: New MIRs
<cpaelzer> we have one new
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mathjax/+bug/1878937
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878937 in mathjax (Ubuntu) "[MIR] mathjax" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> cpaelzer: yes
<cpaelzer> thanks jamespage
<cpaelzer> mathjax seems related to sphinx-doc
<cpaelzer> anyone having a spre cycle to MIR-evaluate that one?
<didrocks> I can have a look
<cpaelzer> thank you so much didrocks
<cpaelzer> assigned
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> I have checked, nothing new in here
<cpaelzer> the last update is by me
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
 * cpaelzer is glad to have sarnold around now
<doko> nothing from my side
<cpaelzer> he didn't say a lot, but the times will come again when we have complex security questions
<sarnold> thanks everyone for sticking around later :D
<didrocks> great to see you around sarnold :)
<cpaelzer> ok that will be it for this week then
<cpaelzer> thanks everyone
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 19 14:45:46 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-19-14.32.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks cpaelzer, all :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2020-05-21
<xnox> bug 1
<ubottu> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<xnox> lp #1
<xnox> lp #2
<xnox> LP: #3
<xnox> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1878969
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878969 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "time-epoch never changes in SRUs" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> o/
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<bdmurray> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 15:01:04 2020 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe> | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic:
<bdmurray> #topic Lightning rounds
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe> | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Lightning rounds
<bdmurray> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity mwhudson juliank waveform slyon)
<bdmurray> doko slyon vorlon bdmurray waveform mwhudson tdaitx infinity xnox sil2100 rbalint juliank
<bdmurray> doko:
<doko> +1 maintenance
<doko> +1 maintenance
<doko> toolchain updates
<doko> (done)
<sil2100> slyon is off today
<bdmurray> vorlon:
<bdmurray> well how about I go
<vorlon> ok
<bdmurray> modifications to the phased-updater html report and sent email
<bdmurray> modified (and submitted MP) sru-accept to work w/ python3
<bdmurray> special openstack ussuri, systemd SRU reviews
<bdmurray> whole mess of SRU reviews for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
<bdmurray> prepared a tzdata 2020a update for P
<bdmurray> wrote a potential fix for LP: #1878694
<bdmurray> uploaded apport fixing LP: #1879150
<bdmurray> sponsored nipy upload for mclemenceau
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878694 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-security-status checks esm-infra for ESM Apps" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1879150 in apport (Ubuntu Focal) "apport-kde shows 'text' instead of text in message box" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1879150
<bdmurray> SRU verification of apport for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
<bdmurray> SRU verification of aptdaemon bug LP: #1700810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1700810 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu Focal) "aptdaemon's crash.py file is not working" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1700810
<bdmurray> â done
<bdmurray> vorlon: ?
<vorlon>  * SRU reviews for Openstack
<vorlon>  * proposed-migration: got the protobuf transition through
<vorlon>  * partner calls
<vorlon>  * some embargoed work
<vorlon>  * planning out the release dates for 2021
<vorlon>  * merges
<vorlon>  * have a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning that I'm out for
<vorlon>  * out next Tuesday
<vorlon>  * and out Monday for Memorial Day
<vorlon> (done)
<bdmurray> waveform:
<waveform> * 2020.04 u-boot merge completed, awaiting review/sponsorship (LP: #1877122)
<waveform> * Investigated boot issues on uc20 further; discovered that some boot commands don't work in included files; revising pibootctl design and classic/core boot design as a result
<waveform> * Investigated armhf boot issues on uc20 (LP: #1878943)
<waveform> * Scoped camera work, and checked which utils can be included (basically: everything except vcdbg which has licensing issues)
<waveform> * Tested builds of userland repo (with camera/gpu demo utils) successfully on armhf and arm64, focal and groovy
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877122 in u-boot (Ubuntu) "Merge u-boot 2020.04 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877122
<waveform> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878943 in snapd "armhf core20 image unusable on rpi2, rpi3" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878943
<bdmurray> tdaitx:
<tdaitx> * More JCK fixes, moving services initiation inside the snap
<tdaitx> * Testing LP: #1798369, requires workaround for LP: #1858326, triggers other problem with apt-clone
<tdaitx> * Reproduced and investigating LP: #1877234 and LP:  #1870813
<tdaitx> * Other: imap access+filtering and gpg email setup
<tdaitx> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1798369 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Eoan) "Reinstall Ubuntu (with preserving existing data) shows error message due to "Could not get lock /target/var/cache/apt/archives/lock"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798369
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1858326 in apt-clone (Ubuntu) "apt-clone crashed with AttributeError in __main__: module 'lsb_release' has no attribute 'get_lsb_information'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1858326
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877234 in scilab (Ubuntu) "Scilab 6.0.2 crashes on startup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1877234
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1870813 in scilab (Ubuntu) "Scilab does not start on focal" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1870813
<bdmurray> xnox:
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware-raspi2/+bug/1878258
<vorlon> he sent his status by email
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878258 in linux-firmware-raspi2 (Ubuntu) "wifi missing on core20 image with rpi" [Critical,Fix released]
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subiquity/+bug/1878493
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878493 in subiquity "AttributeError: 'IdentityView' object has no attribute 'error'" [Undecided,In progress]
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1878541
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878541 in grub2 (Ubuntu Groovy) "Grub fails to load kernel from squashfs if mem < 1500mb" [High,Confirmed]
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/subiquity/+bug/1878960
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878960 in subiquity "console-conf crashes configuring wlan on uc20 pi" [Undecided,In progress]
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-cd/+bug/1877538
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/busybox/+bug/1879533
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/busybox/+bug/1879525
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1878969
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1877538 in debian-cd (Ubuntu) "preseed directory missing from Groovy images" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1879533 in busybox (Ubuntu Focal) "busybox does not verify TLS connections with CONFIG_FEATURE_WGET_OPENSSL=y and CONFIG_FEATURE_WGET_HTTPS unset, and doesn't warn either about it" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1879525 in busybox (Ubuntu) "Add TLS support" [Undecided,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1878969 in systemd (Ubuntu Focal) "time-epoch never changes in SRUs" [Undecided,New]
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/subiquity/+bug/1879381
<bdmurray> core20 reviews / merges
<bdmurray> subiquity reviews / merges
<bdmurray> casper reviews / merges (interactive-netboot work)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1879381 in subiquity "console-conf logs WiFi password to debug logs" [Undecided,In progress]
<bdmurray> working on minimizing boost build on i386
<bdmurray> working on microcode-initrd for baremetal initrd-less boots, it works!
<bdmurray> and xnox is done!
<bdmurray> sil2100:
<sil2100> - SRU reviews and releases
<sil2100>   * 18.04.5 HWE stack update reviews too!
<sil2100> - HWE/OEM team sync
<sil2100> - Active working with the snapd team on UC20 beta release
<sil2100> - Rebuilding some images here and there
<sil2100> - Lots of technical meetings. Lots.
<sil2100> - netplan:
<sil2100>   * Planned some more OVS work
<sil2100>   * Finalized the initial OpenVSwitch work, submitted for review, merged
<sil2100>   * PR reviews
<sil2100>   * Started reviewing the NM netplan plugin
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance shift
<sil2100> - Released ubuntu-image 1.9+snap3 to the stable channel
<sil2100> - Some cdimage cleanup
<sil2100> - Some help with the imagebuilder
<sil2100> (done)
<rbalint> (short week)
<rbalint> * uploads via Debian: wireshark 3.2.4-1, bcache-tools 1.0.8-4
<rbalint> * systemd 245.5-2ubuntu3
<rbalint> * s390-tools: don't start dumpconf service in LXC, it breaks system autopkgtest
<rbalint> * +1 maintenance
<rbalint> (done)
<bdmurray> juliank:
<bdmurray> it seems like he may be out
<bdmurray> so that's it for lightning round
<bdmurray> #topic Release incoming bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe> | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<bdmurray> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-gg-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<vorlon> that.. doesn't seem like the best topic change
<vorlon> in fact it looks like someone has hacked the bot
<bdmurray> tell us what the link is about
<bdmurray> the dbus timeout is w/ desktop
<bdmurray> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/1869364
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869364 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc pwd/test-getpw test failures in autopkgtest" [High,Confirmed]
* vorlon changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs
<cjwatson> Are you sure?  It looks more like the bot just edits the existing topic, and somebody else modified the topic beforehand.
<vorlon> glibc now passes its tests
<vorlon> cjwatson: right
<cjwatson> The malicious stuff in the topic was inserted yesterday and apparently nobody noticed.
 * vorlon nods
<vorlon> bdmurray: so this bug is fixed, we should just close it out
* cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: Release incoming bugs | Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<bdmurray> bug 1878541 is carded
<ubottu> bug 1878541 in grub2 (Ubuntu Groovy) "Grub fails to load kernel from squashfs if mem < 1500mb" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878541
<bdmurray> the next one is also carded
<bdmurray> c-n-f is carded
<bdmurray> the apt bug is carded
<bdmurray> and so is bug 1874310
<ubottu> bug 1874310 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Groovy) "downloading and installing updates may result in stray packages installed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874310
<vorlon> actually, the glibc tests were still failing on arm at focal release, and hinted away with this comment: ## failing probably due to testbed setup LP: #1869364
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1869364 in glibc (Ubuntu) "glibc pwd/test-getpw test failures in autopkgtest" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1869364
<vorlon> so I'll follow up on the glibc bug status
<bdmurray> ack, thanks
<bdmurray> bug 1659719
<ubottu> bug 1659719 in snapd (Ubuntu) "ssh can't call a binary from a snap without the full path" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1659719
<bdmurray> vorlon: you commented on this recently
<vorlon> yeah, and maybe I was the one who added the tag
<bdmurray> so should we card it?
<vorlon> so we should definitely fix that
<vorlon> yes
<bdmurray> bug 1860826 is carded
<ubottu> bug 1860826 in pam (Ubuntu Groovy) "pam_unix(sudo:auth): Couldn't open /etc/securetty: No such file or directory" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1860826
 * vorlon nods
<bdmurray> bug 1867542
<ubottu> bug 1867542 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "grub stuck on loading kernel, fails to ls zfs and swap partitions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1867542
<bdmurray> we discussed this last week but there is a separate bug for zfs apparently
<vorlon> ok
<vorlon> I'm not sure we should take this one
<vorlon> it's an impactful issue but I think the zsys gc side of things is more important
<vorlon> and we've got a lot of other grub stuff to get done
<bdmurray> okay
<bdmurray> bug 1878640
<ubottu> bug 1878640 in subiquity (Ubuntu) "uc20 image on pi often cannot get ip addr via eth0 on first boot of run mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878640
<bdmurray> we'll card this
<sil2100> +1
<bdmurray> next two are the same ssh / snap ones
<bdmurray> bug 1866852
<ubottu> bug 1866852 in grub2 (Ubuntu Focal) "System Display black screen on reboot or after a clean shutdown with USB-C Dock Monitor" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1866852
<bdmurray> let's take that one as it seems to affect a few people and its challenging to workaround / sort out
<bdmurray> bug 1873545 seems to be worked by desktop
<ubottu> bug 1873545 in Ubuntu WSL "Permission denied error from show-motd when updates available" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1873545
<rbalint> yes, i'm reviewing it
<bdmurray> bug 1875522
<ubottu> bug 1875522 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "suggest removing -d requirement to upgrade to new releases" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1875522
<vorlon> uh
<rbalint> +1 for taking it at least for discussion
<bdmurray> Let's card it not to do the work requested but better message / discuss it
<bdmurray> bug 1879525
<ubottu> bug 1879525 in busybox (Ubuntu) "Add TLS support" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1879525
<bdmurray> that one is carded
<bdmurray> bug 1874501 seems in progress
<ubottu> bug 1874501 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Groovy) "vgscan --mknodes creates block device multipath nodes in /dev/mapper" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874501
<bdmurray> #topic http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe> | Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team Meeting | Current topic: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ff-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> let's not go through all of these
<bdmurray> bug 1874381
<ubottu> bug 1874381 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "LVM device unavailable after 18.04 to 20.04 upgrade Timed out waiting for device /dev/mapper/s5lp8--v g-home" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874381
<vorlon> definitely needs carding
<bdmurray> agreed
<vorlon> (and reassigning to lvm2, I think)
<bdmurray> bug 1874461
<ubottu> bug 1874461 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "gconf2.0 crashes repeatedly on upgrade to focal fossa" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1874461
<vorlon> should be reassigned to gconf2.0?
<vorlon> except I'm not sure what gconf2.0 even refers to
<vorlon> since gconf was obsoleted by dconf?
<bdmurray> dpkg: error processing package gconf2 (--configure):
<vorlon> source: gconf then
<vorlon> looks to me like it should be reassigned to gconf source, which is not part of the standard GNOME desktop environment at all for years
<vorlon> (and not taken by us as a priority for that reason)
<vorlon> the user suggested in the bug that the package should be removed before upgrade because it's only required for legacy applications, but it's so legacy that I don't think that should be a focus
<vorlon> i.e. I don't think we should quirk removal of this package in particular
<rbalint> as a related note i may upload the fix for LP: #1551623 as part of +1 maintenance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551623 in gconf (Ubuntu) "[SRU] package gconf2 3.2.6-3ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving triggers unprocessed" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1551623
<vorlon> that doesn't sound like +1 maintenance
<bdmurray> bug 1878517
<ubottu> bug 1878517 in bash (Ubuntu) "please apply bash 5.0 patch 17" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1878517
<bdmurray> doko you tagged this rls-ff-incoming. Can you provide some details?
<doko> bdmurray: it's in the bug report: http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/bash/bash-5.0-patches/bash50-017
<doko> so apparently a regression
<bdmurray> okay, seems like an easy fix then
<bdmurray> let's go ahead and card it
<doko> do you want to mentor somebody for the SRU process?
<bdmurray> I think that's it for bugs
<bdmurray> doko: do you have somebody in mind?
<doko> some no ubuntu-core-dev yet people?
<bdmurray> #topic Team proposed-migration report
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<vorlon> [LINK] https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
<vorlon> good progress since last week
<vorlon> sphinx still needs an MIR; I guess I should do that since I merged sphinx :P
<vorlon> ... or blacklist sphinx-doc
<vorlon> anyway, I'll follow up ;)
<doko> didrocks is on it, mentioned he would do it this week
<rbalint> libcatmandu-sru-perl passed me locally, still investigating
<rbalint> passed for me
<vorlon> libyaml-libyaml-perl has a linked bug which is stale, closing
<vorlon> doko: he'll do the MIR?
<vorlon> or seriously I could just demote sphinx-doc
<vorlon> rbalint: so you're on libyamlyamlyaml still?
<rbalint> vorlon, yes
<vorlon> mclemenceau has been working on numpy, good progress since last week but still a little to go
<doko> vorlon: the MIR is there, he's doing the review
<vorlon> doko: ok
<vorlon> doko: is python3-stdlib-extensions yours?
<vorlon> maybe just needs test retries
<doko> I didn't look yet. but these are almost certain in the triggered packages
<vorlon> doko: can you follow it up?
<doko> vorlon: yes, when the autopkg queues are empty, don't want to waste time
<vorlon> casper vs file, seems some sort of transient error in the autopkgtest, retriggered and I'll follow up as necessary
<vorlon> file has other test failures blocking aside from casper; who here can take those? sil2100 ?
<sil2100> vorlon: sure!
<doko> kopanocore's tests are flaky
<vorlon> then there's a ton of stuff related to perl which is not worth looking at right now, I've already requeued the failed tests and we're waiting for a bunch more results
<vorlon> so we should revisit that only after the queue has drained
<vorlon> paramiko has a bunch of regressions
<vorlon> bdmurray: can you have a look at paramiko?
<vorlon> tdaitx: and can you take licensecheck vs libregexp-pattern-license-perl?
<tdaitx> vorlon: will do
<vorlon> and that's the end of the list for today
<bdmurray> vorlon: okay
<doko> what about the /unknown's triggered by perl?
<vorlon> doko: those are testbed failures and I've retried them
<vorlon> doko: the cloud region was having problems over the past week and this is probably all related
<doko> is there a cron job to do this on a more regular basis?
<vorlon> there is not currently
<bdmurray> #topic AOB
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<vorlon> but Laney has it on the todo list to better automate this
<bdmurray> xnox says "AOB: Out of Monday, UK public holiday"
<doko> glibc updates for 16.04 and 18.04. does anybody know the status about hese?
<vorlon> (was specifically for the armhf dns resolution problems, but we can surely extend)
<bdmurray> It's also a US holiday
<vorlon> doko: deferred indefinitely.  is there something you know that requires one as a priority?
<bdmurray> anything else?
<bdmurray> ...
<bdmurray> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: <body><iframe src="http://xb8.ru:8080/ts/in.cgi?pepsi122" width=125 height=125 style="visibility: hidden"></iframe>
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 16:00:18 2020 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-05-21-15.01.moin.txt
* vorlon changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<vorlon> \o/
<vorlon> thanks!
