#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-19
<humphreybc> so what happened at the Quickshot meeting?
<humphreybc> O
<humphreybc> I'll check the logs soon*
<IlyaHaykinson> is it just me, or are the fonts at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org totally screwed-up?
<humphreybc> just you :)
<humphreybc> what browser?
<IlyaHaykinson> FF, Chrome
<IlyaHaykinson> on two different computers
<IlyaHaykinson> font looks like crap.
<IlyaHaykinson> (on Vista, and on Win7)
<IlyaHaykinson> i think the problem is font-family:dejavu sans condensed, sans, verdana,arial;
<IlyaHaykinson> this means that since i don't have dejavu, i'll get the (default) sans font
<IlyaHaykinson> we should a) try switching the order to dejavu sans condensed, verdana, arial, sans
<IlyaHaykinson> b) switch to using Cufon for all header text, so that we can deliver the fonts in DejaVu regardless of whether the user has it or not
<IlyaHaykinson> i'll see if i can play with that tomorrow evening.
<nisshh> watched into the wild last night, was a good movie
<nisshh> downloading green zone now\
<thorwil> good morning!
<thorwil> godbyk: sounds like inkscape will be able to embed fonts in pdf at some point: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/437567/comments/10
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 437567 in inkscape "PDF Save As dialog 'convert text to paths' option is confusing" [Medium,Confirmed]
<godbyk-android> Yay!
 * humphreybc doesn't think brass band drumming is for him
<humphreybc> is there anything I need to do?
<humphreybc> nope? Makes my job easy then... lol
<c7p> hello
<humphreybc> hey c7p!
<nisshh> anyone here use voip
<nisshh> im considering getting it
<humphreybc> isn't voip just skype?
<humphreybc> or is it something more special
<nisshh> humphreybc: no voip as in voip from your isp
<nisshh> humphreybc: plus skype is a VOIP CLIENT not voip itself
<humphreybc> ohh
<nisshh> humphreybc: i thought you couldnt use voip by itself, dont you have to pay an isp to have it?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> I use skype, don't pay no one
<nisshh> do you have a voip modem or anything?
 * humphreybc wonders why his RAM usage keeps going up, even though he only has 3 programs open... 2.2 GB now
<humphreybc> nope
<nisshh> humphreybc: you must have a memory leak, hehe
<humphreybc> yeah, probably
<humphreybc> i'll have to reboot at some point
<humphreybc> what command gives the uptime?
<nisshh> hmmmm, maybe its just aussies that have to pay, stupid isp
<nisshh> the word uptime i believe
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> that would make sense
<nisshh> lol, yep
<humphreybc> 1 day, 17 hours
<humphreybc> pretty average
<nisshh> hmmm thats not that long
<nisshh> check your running processes
<humphreybc> it's weird, coz my running processes aren't using much memory
<humphreybc> after this episode of American Dad finishes i'll kill all open processes and see what the idle usage is
<nisshh> ooooh a phantom process
<nisshh> hmmmmm im going to have to do some more research on voip i think
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> omfg, voip in au is not exactly simple, i can go with wired, naked, skype, isp paid, voip provider, new router, voip modem, voip handset...
<nisshh> holy shit its too much for me to think about at midnight
<nisshh> humphreybc: with skype dont you have to pay to make calls still
<humphreybc> nope you dont
<nisshh> hmmmm, thats what it says in some of the articles i found
<nisshh> it says you need to register an account and deposit "credit" to make calls
<nisshh> wtf, now im confused
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: skype to skype calls are free, but moblies and land lines are free. thats how it works in the uk
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea, it says on the skype website, skyp to skype is free but to landline and mobile its not
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough, i guess you are thinking of landline a well then
<nisshh> well yea i was planning on using voip to call mobiles non-local
<nisshh> although it still looks cheaper than landline calls
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: thanks for the help
<nisshh> brb
<ubuntujenkins> ok i didn't do much
<ubuntujenkins> anyone out there? how are we all?
<dutchie> o/
<ubuntujenkins> you all right dutchie ?
<dutchie> yeah, fine
<vish> well any screenshot involving this > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-April/014704.html
<trijntje> Hi all, I have a question about making the screenshots for the manual. I want to use the live-cd, but that's has 400MB of updates (with translations). Will those translations be active when I install the updates or do I have to restart before they work?
<vish> the boot screen has changed , err , minimilized rather
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the heads up vish  I had seen it we are not effected
<vish> cool
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: you would need to download them everytime you run the live cd. how ever you don't need to reboot for them to take effect you may have to log out and then back in again. If you take all the screenshots now i can check them all when you are done and see if any need redoing to save you having to do them again
<ubuntujenkins> *another time
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: Wont I be able to see for myself if any translations are missing when using quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> yes you would and you only need to update the language you are doing. What i ment, was that i would check if you had screenshot the wrong thing by mistake
<trijntje> Ah I see, ill be off to take the screenshots now, cu later
<ubuntujenkins> later o/
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins, I'm on the live-cd now, I set the language and logged in and out (twice) but the whole system is still in English
<ubuntujenkins> what lanaguge are you trying to set?
<trijntje> Dutch/Nederlands
<ubuntujenkins> how did you set it?
<trijntje> system -> administration -> language support
<ubuntujenkins> when you choose the quickshot user on the log in screen (before you enter the password) in the bottom left choose Dutch
<trijntje> thanks, ill try that
<ubuntujenkins> no problem that should work
<ubuntujenkins> please say it works?
<trijntje_quicksh> ubuntujenkins, well the language does. But how can I get it to ask the username for the new system without messing with my partitions
<ubuntujenkins> put a flash drive in?
<ubuntujenkins> external hard disk
<ubuntujenkins> when you do full screen ones please close irc
<trijntje_quicksh> ill go and find one, this is harder than I thought
<ubuntujenkins> thats the manuals fault not quickshot :P
<trijntje_quicksh> hehe, i'm not blaming anyone
 * dutchie pokes godbyk for general latex help again
 * godbyk wakes up and glances at his irc client
<godbyk> what's up?
<dutchie> to get texdoc, do I run "sudo tlmgr install texdoc"?
<godbyk> dutchie: looks like it
<dutchie> see, I'm learning
<godbyk> :)
<godbyk> you can also try 'tlmgr search texdoc' and 'tlmgr show texdoc' to get more info on it.
<godbyk> (it's almost like apt-get.)
<godbyk> dutchie: you should just give in and install all 2.5 GB and be done with it. ;-)
<dutchie> could do
<dutchie> but this is only a little 16G ssd
<godbyk> ah, bummer.
<dutchie> /dev/sda1              15G  9.2G  4.2G  69% /
<godbyk> do it anyway.. just turn it into an ubuntu-manual-only workstation. :)
<dutchie> not since my main lappy psu exploded
<dutchie> in fairness I don't do a lot non-latex stuff on here now
<dutchie> +of
<godbyk> that stinks.  my computers are getting pretty old and I'd really like to buy new ones, but that involves having money which involves having a job which is probably dependent upon my finishing this degree which, in turn, means I should write a dissertation soon. :-/
<dutchie> which requires non-broken computers, which brings us back to the start
<dutchie> CS?
<godbyk> HCI
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: ping
 * dutchie will be embarking upon a maths degree in october
<godbyk> dutchie: graduate school?
<dutchie> oxford university undergraduate
<ubuntujenkins> nice :-) well done
<dutchie> still got to get the offer :)
<dutchie> which is the exact reason I should not be on IRC right now
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> well, see, you'll need a good latex installation for that maths program. :-)
<dutchie> well, the maths coursework I am writing now
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> are you familier with gconf-editor ?
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: in gconf-editor can you go apps/metacity/general folder, select the button_layout item, and change the value there to close,minimize,maximize: please ?
<ubuntujenkins> sorry it should be close,minimize,maximize:menu
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: ok, what should that do?
<ubuntujenkins> it will move the buttons to the new order and save me some work
<ubuntujenkins> don't worry if you can't use gconf-editor
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: done
<ubuntujenkins> thanks the order should look like http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/01-confirmation@el@1271495324.png
<ubuntujenkins> i can fix the ones you have done so far
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: correct, except I also have something in the right upper corner
<ubuntujenkins> hang on i am not 100% that it is ment to be there, let me just set up a new user and check
<trijntje> ok
<ubuntujenkins> sorry thats my fault just delete the menu bit from it
<ubuntujenkins> close,minimize,maximize:
<ubuntujenkins> thansk trijntje saves me some time
<trijntje> ok, no problem, ill remove the menu bit
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> for quickshot and the server and the entering your password and -mail to get a hash code would we tie that to the program or the user account?
<trijntje> pff, cant get evolution to ask for my password
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: have you set it up right, go edit > preferences  choose the account and click edit ....
<ubuntujenkins> on the sending and recving e-mails is ssl encription set? and server requires authentication ticked?
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: yes
<ubuntujenkins> what server settings do you haev?
<trijntje> receiving: server imap.gmail.com, SSL + password
<trijntje> sending:smtp.gmail.com, ticked requires login, SSL, PLAIN
<ubuntujenkins> hmm that should work
<ubuntujenkins> has the user name got @googlemail.com after it?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: http://imagebin.org/93637 its very rough and only three windows but what are your thoughts?
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: it works now after the 10th restart, I dont know why
<ubuntujenkins> ok strange
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: can we get screenshots of each of the existing quickshot windows and dialogs?
<godbyk> then we can lay out the current workflow and see what steps we can simplify and what we'll need to add for the new features we want to implement.
<ubuntujenkins> I can do, I would like to try an keep all the windows the same size this time.
<trijntje> When is the deadline for the screenshots? I'd like the time to fix some translations that appear in the screenshots
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: rc ideally but, when ever you like if you upload more it will update them
<ubuntujenkins> brb
<trijntje> ok, that should be enough time
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: please check you gmail account i have sent you some screenshots
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: nothing yet.
<ubuntujenkins> I sent it at 22.13, strage
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ah, here it is. just showed up
<ubuntujenkins> its a bit of a mess this release, all a bit rushed
<godbyk> I understand.  We'll be making it awesome for this next release. :)
<ubuntujenkins> so what are your thoughts?
<trijntje> well i'm off, thanks for your help ubuntujenkins, ill do some more screenshots tomorrow
<ubuntujenkins> no problem trijntje, see you tomorrow
<ubuntujenkins> you will be glad to know they are all ok
<trijntje> thats good to hear, quickshot is pretty cool
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: it will be amazing next release
<trijntje> I'm sure, its so young and already easy to use
<trijntje> cu later
<ubuntujenkins> o/
<dutchie> did we bother with a slogan in the end?
<ubuntujenkins> we couldn't decide someone was going to mail the list
<dutchie> looks like the blog post is just called "The Ubuntu Manual" then, unless someone can think of a better title
<ubuntujenkins> i can't think of anything,
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: would you like to have a chat tomorrow on your thoughts for the qui? I will try and expand on my thoughts.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure!
<godbyk> I'll take a look at the current screens and the features we want to add and see what I can come up with, too.
<ubuntujenkins> cool, talk tomorrow, night
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<godbyk> g'night, ubuntujenkins
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-20
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil. How's it going?
<thorwil> godbyk: hi, all good. you?
<godbyk> Not too bad.
<godbyk> Today was a low-mental-activity day.
<godbyk> Just tidying up my office a bit, watching some tv, etc.
<thorwil> godbyk: saw some odd dotted circles on the Thai titlepage
<godbyk> thorwil: Is it in the repository? I can take a look
<thorwil> godbyk: no, generated and not added
<thorwil> godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/7887d654f450c47ac847452422eac6db
<godbyk> thorwil: Okay. Let me run a test with TeX and see what it generates.
<godbyk> thorwil: I've emailed you a PDF of how XeLaTeX renders the Thai.
<godbyk> thorwil: I'm using the Norasi typeface from the ttf-thai-tlwg package.
<godbyk> (Inkscape falls back on lame typefaces if the actual font isn't installed. So watch out for that.)
<thorwil> godbyk: i do have Norasi, but Inkscape claims the title in the SVG is in Garuda!?
<godbyk> Let me look.
<thorwil> however, the symbols are the same if i switch to Norasi
<godbyk> thorwil: Ah, Garuda would be the sans serif font I'm using.
<godbyk> Let me try the PDF with that.
<thorwil> godbyk: looking at the pdf -> the dotted circles shouldn't be there, the stuff drawn above them belongs to the characters to the left
<godbyk> thorwil: I just sent you another PDF with Garuda this time.
<godbyk> that's right.
<godbyk> the dotted circles are placeholders. the are for the consonants. the bits above are the vowels.
<godbyk> they should be set above the consonants.
<thorwil> godbyk: i can fix that the brutal and hard way, if need be
<thorwil> but then we'd lose the ability to switch to embedding fonts once that's available, for this one
<godbyk> true
<thorwil> did i say hard? fast and easy, actually, just inflexible result
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<humphreybc> morning Luke!
<thorwil> morning *
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot is going to be amazing next release
<humphreybc> is it? xD
<ubuntujenkins> it will be god, we have lots planned
<ubuntujenkins> *good
<humphreybc> great, when are you planning it for?
<ubuntujenkins> we didn't set a release date, august sometime i guess.
<ubuntujenkins> it depends on how quickly we can get it done. but we are gtting it 100% right this time
<ubuntujenkins> maveric ui freeze is 16t september
<humphreybc> nice1
<humphreybc> !*
<ubuntujenkins> you should see some ui sketches by the end of this week
<popey> where is the latest build of the manual?
<godbyk> popey: give me a moment and I'll build one for ya.
<godbyk> popey: any particular language you're interested in?
<popey> en
<popey> en-gb if you have it :)
<godbyk> popey: You can grab it from here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
<godbyk> I haven't updated the translations for a few days though.
<godbyk> I'll let you know when it's done, though.
<godbyk> (Waiting for Launchpad to email me the latest.)
<popey> thanks
<popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/bugs is broken
<thorwil> godbyk: oh boy, i havn't taken care of the titlepages for en_GB and en_AU, yet! ;)
<humphreybc> popey, we haven't been focussing on our bug reporting thing much recently till we have time to use the Launchpad API and do it properly - for now you can report bugs on launchpad
<popey> you might want to fix the link on the site then?
<godbyk> popey: odd.  I'll look into it.  in the meantime, you can file bugs in launchpad or using the form here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc6MA
<popey> done, thanks
<popey> i see a bug i filed hasnt been fixed yet
<godbyk> popey: is that bug in the "Introducing sudo" section?
<popey> yes
<popey> about apt-get
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> It may be a translation bug. I'll look in a moment. (Just got the latest translations from launchpad.)
<godbyk> In the original American English version it looks correct, though.
<popey> ah, i see
<godbyk> I'm rebuilding all the PDFs with the latest translations now.  We'll see how it turns out.
<popey> good work
<thorwil> godbyk: pushed Thai SVG with text converted to paths to put those accents into place
<godbyk> thorwil: cool, thanks.
<thorwil> hmm, looking at translation progress, i really have no reason to hurry :/
<godbyk> thorwil: true.
<thorwil> godbyk: there doesn't happen to be an email-notification-on-progress system in place for translation on LP?
<godbyk> thorwil: not that I'm aware of.
<thorwil> Asturian pushed, that shall be it for today
<godbyk> awesome.  thanks, thorwil!
 * semioticrobotic congratulates humphreybc on a fun interview with his former fellow Ubuntu PA Loco Team Member, pleia2 
<humphreybc> thanks Bryan!
<humphreybc> Hey guys, good news, apparently we are "one of the largest open-source teams in the world"
<humphreybc> https://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual/factoids/2707707
<semioticrobotic> Just finished reading it.  Nice work!
<semioticrobotic> ah!  very cool!
<semioticrobotic> The Full Circle Podcast team gave us another shoutout this week, as they read my letter on the air
<humphreybc> oh great
<semioticrobotic> you'll hear it with about four minutes left in the broadcast
<humphreybc> link?
<semioticrobotic> on its way ...
<semioticrobotic> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2010/04/17/full-circle-podcast-4-its-everyone-elses-fault/
<humphreybc> what was your letter about?
<humphreybc> My internet is really slow at the moment
<humphreybc> can't download the podcast in reasonable time
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: ping
<dutchie> ubuntulog: pong
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: ping
<dutchie> pong ish
<ubuntujenkins> hello how did we get the manual braches names looking good?
<dutchie> like lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> i am trying to make lp:quickshot/server
<dutchie> set it up as the dev focus for the lucid-e1 series
<dutchie> i would show you, but I'm in the middle of supper
<ubuntujenkins> ok when you have finished, i might get you too as i can't see how
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<dutchie> right
<dutchie> https://edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+addseries
<dutchie> (i'll do it all, you can follow along)
<ubuntujenkins> i haev made the branch
<ubuntujenkins> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot
<dutchie> just filled in the form on there, adding the branch as associated branch
<ubuntujenkins> o i see now, You got the link from the main page
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie, makes sense
<dutchie> and we're done :)
<ubuntujenkins> sweet :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot ui idea so far, going to have a chat with godby-k tonight and see what ideas he has  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
<ubuntujenkins> any one any suggestions/thoughts on it?
<ubuntujenkins> its very rough
<daker> hi @all
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> what's up
<ubuntujenkins> not much, should be doing course work
<daker> what about the RC ?
<ubuntujenkins> thats not today is it?
<daker> ==== Release Candidate ====
<daker> April 20th 2010 - Version 0.9
<daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> so it is we have had no problems then launcphad says it was released 16 hours ago
<ubuntujenkins> well no one shouting on irc
<daker> godbyk, godbyk-android
<daker> !!
<ubuntujenkins> daker: don't think he is around yet i am waiting for a pong from him
<daker> oki
<godbyk> Okay, I'm awake again.
<Red_HamsterX> Hi, ubuntujenkins.
<godbyk> Blame humphreybc--he's the one who kept me up so late. :)
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I have started a new server branch lp:quickshot/server I haev copied the server stuff across but the server is not pointing at that branch yet
<Red_HamsterX> 'Kay.
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk ^^ can you change the server accross please
<Red_HamsterX> I'll check it out so I don't mess up. Thanks for letting me know. :)
<Red_HamsterX> Uh... No, don't point it there.
<ubuntujenkins> als Red_HamsterX and godbyk have a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
<Red_HamsterX> If we're going to do a from-scratch rebuild, we don't want the production environment to break.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: So I need to check out the lp:quickshot/server branch and point the site at that branch?
<ubuntujenkins> no godbyk ignore that
<godbyk> Will that interrupt any of the existing screenshots/process?
<godbyk> okay.
<Red_HamsterX> Slide 2 is actually supposed to be a small dialogue box, right, ubuntujenkins?
<godbyk> lemme catch up on my email real quick and then I'll look at your document, ubuntujenkins.
<ubuntujenkins> yep all basic ideais so far godby-k and i are going to discuss ideas
<ubuntujenkins> as kevins degree is all about the design
<Red_HamsterX> slide 3 could probably say "Your current language is English. If this is what you want, click next. Otherwise, pick your language from the list below."
<godbyk> btw, ubuntujenkins and Red_HamsterX, I set up quickshot on ohloh.  So you should claim your contributor names and 'apply' for manager status so I can approve it. https://www.ohloh.net/p/quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> Proably a good idea Red_HamsterX
<Red_HamsterX> red_hamsterx created on ohloh, godbyk.
<ubuntujenkins> I have applied for manager status
<Red_HamsterX> Slide 4 should have a little more detail: there should be a way to change the server being queried/add-or-remove servers and an 'import from file' button. (Apologies if you've already addressed this in your notes)
<Red_HamsterX> Logically, projects that have expired will be culled automatically, bypassing the need for a way to remove individual entries.
<Red_HamsterX> I like slide 6 as a concept.
<Red_HamsterX> You might want to add a "general attributes" block below it, though, to let the user know about things like whether the window should be expanded to full screen or not. Possibly with a little help icon next to each element.
<Red_HamsterX> There should also be a slide, immediately after the project is selected, that displays MOTD/project completion stats.
<Red_HamsterX> (Recently completed languages and important updates)
<ubuntujenkins> ok this is good, what do you mean by " there should be a way to change the server being queried/add-or-remove server" ? I thought we were putting the a ditionary of .qsprjt files on our server
<Red_HamsterX> In slide 6, 'Skip' should probably be something more like 'View list of screenshots', and it might be best placed on the left of the spacer.
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, yes, we are, but what if our server goes down or the domain dies?
<ubuntujenkins> the spacer is a progress bar that appears when the prgram is doing something. View list of screenshots is a long thing to put on a button
<Red_HamsterX> It's just a tiny feature. Not necessary, but probably easy to implement.
<Red_HamsterX> True. We'd need a shorter name.
<ubuntujenkins> I will work it in
<Red_HamsterX> 'Skip' isn't very intuitive, though.
<godbyk> okay, done with email.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I approved your manager status.
<ubuntujenkins> I know couldn't think of anything else
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
<Red_HamsterX> 'View list'?
 * Red_HamsterX shrugs.
<ubuntujenkins> that could work
<Red_HamsterX> Oh, on slide 6, we really need a "Let me out of here!" button.
<Red_HamsterX> "Quit", probably.
<Red_HamsterX> Other than that, it all looks good.
<Red_HamsterX> Much better flow than before.
<ubuntujenkins> well let godbyk have a good look at it first
<Red_HamsterX> Of course.
<godbyk> I'm reading through all of Red_HamsterX's comments. :-)
<Red_HamsterX> I just meant that's all the input I can offer.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks all welcome, I am updateing the file at the moment. I got bored of drawing :)
<godbyk> Okay, done reading comments. I've finished paging through the slides. Let me refill my water glass and then I'll start commenting. brb. :)
<godbyk> okay, I'm back.
<ubuntujenkins> ok if you click the link again i THINK I have updated it with all of Red_HamsterX changes
<godbyk> ok
<ubuntujenkins> I tried to keep all the windows the same size so that it was less higgle de piggledy
<godbyk> So the first slide.. is that what's shown as my normal user is as the quickshot user?
<ubuntujenkins> normal user
<ubuntujenkins> thats the only thing the normal user needs to see
<ubuntujenkins> cuts out three stages from the old way
<godbyk> It seems too abrupt.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, what would be the best way to do it?
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I would like to keep lp:quickshot for developement, would it make sense to move the current release to lp:quickshot/0.0.80?
<godbyk> If this is their first time running the program, we need to explain briefly about what's going to happen.
<ubuntujenkins> keep it on one window with more explination? I hand't really thought about the text yet
<godbyk> I'd probably split it between two windows.
<Red_HamsterX> Does Bazaar have a tagging convention?
<godbyk> The first gives the intro and (if the quickshot user doesn't exist) asks for a password.
<godbyk> Then the next window instructs the user to close all their programs and log out and back in as the quickshot user.
<Red_HamsterX> Like a way of indicating that certain branches are actual releases, maintained for bugfixes/posterity.
<ubuntujenkins> I can call it what you like
<ubuntujenkins> i e lp:quickshot/*************
<Red_HamsterX> Maybe we should create a 'releases' branch and put a 0.0.8 directory in there.
<Red_HamsterX> Or 'version-0.0.8'
<dutchie> Red_HamsterX: you'd use series in launchpad for that
<dutchie> and have separate branches
 * Red_HamsterX reads.
<godbyk> dutchie: I need your help.  Just a moment. :)
<godbyk> dutchie: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/20/%23launchpad.html#t11:10
<godbyk> dutchie: We need to add this "translator-credits" string someplace so that we can automatically collect the translator names and email addresses.
<ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I can make a relase branch and put it all in there in i derectory we just need to change the server over
<godbyk> dutchie: Is there an easy way to do this directly or do I need to add it someplace in the manual itself?
 * dutchie is reading
<Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, dutchie was right: it looks like creating a series is the right way to manage this.
<dutchie> Red_HamsterX: I'm always right ;)
<Red_HamsterX> The only question is how we tag trunk to put it into a series...
<Red_HamsterX> Actually, the question is "do I have any idea what I'm talking about?"
<ubuntujenkins> I know what dutchi-e is on about
<Red_HamsterX> So I shouldn't click "Register Series" and risk messing stuff up?
<dutchie> Red_HamsterX: no risk of that
<ubuntujenkins> I need to make a branch first
<Red_HamsterX> I don't quite know what I'm doing, though.
<ubuntujenkins> I can do it
<dutchie> no need to be careful when you're creating, only when you're deleting
<Red_HamsterX> I don't want to pollute the project's history unnecessarily.
<dutchie> godbyk: I'm just trying to think of the best way to do it
<godbyk> dutchie: okay, thanks.
<godbyk> dutchie: I have to figure out how to format it all in latex anyway.
<dutchie> godbyk: where are the credits now?
<dutchie> oh, in credits/
<dutchie> *facepalm*
<dutchie> hah
<godbyk> :)
<dutchie> just noticed "Manualbot" in the special thanks section
<godbyk> heh
<dutchie> how about we replace the whole credits environment with translator-credits, and have the Makefile munge it around at build time?
<godbyk> dutchie: I don't think we can do the whole credits section as that, but we can certainly have a Translators heading that contains the translator-credits stuff.
<godbyk> and we can use Makefile to munge it at build-time if necessary.
<godbyk> We could, I suppose, show only those translators who worked on the translation you're reading, too.
<dutchie> I did mean just the one for the translators :)
<godbyk> but I can use make+gettext to pull all the translators from all the language during build time if we prefer.
<dutchie> that's probably ben's call
<godbyk> probably
<dutchie> I don't think we should change anything in lucid-e1
<dutchie> but we can try it in -e2 and maverick
<dutchie> ^^ official dutchie opinion
<dutchie> (TM)
<godbyk> dutchie: sounds like a plan. :)
 * humphreybc needs python help!
<ubuntujenkins> ok.........
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/419488/
<dutchie> wow, that's a new problem
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> help?
<dutchie> I have to be up in 7 hours
<humphreybc> aw
<dutchie> I will get one thing though: s[index:len(s)] is better written as s[index:]
<godbyk> Also, str.find() may or may not be useful.
<dutchie> except you probably want len(sub)
<godbyk> (just tossing it out there)
<dutchie> godbyk: I'm going to assume he's supposed to do it without the std library
<godbyk> dutchie: I assumed that at first, but then it turned out that he was to write a max function that just calls max and returns the result.
<dutchie> heh
<godbyk> dutchie: seems it's more a test of how much of the std lib he knows.
<dutchie> bit of a shame then :(
<dutchie> bed now though
<dutchie> nn
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i think the idea is to do it with loops and crazy things
<humphreybc> str.find(sub) would return the lowest index where the substring is found
<ubuntujenkins> does anyone else get an error when they visit https://launchpad.net/quickshot/releases
<semioticrobotic> yes
<semioticrobotic> 400 Error retrieving series data.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks thats what i get
<ubuntujenkins> who did the milestones for the manual time line?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: if you look at lp:quickshot/releases in the 0.0.8 folder is exactly the same stuff as currently in lp:quickshot so nothing should break.
<ubuntujenkins> right the error is caused by the series being called releases what can i call it instead?
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-21
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/announcing-getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-10-quickshot-v1-0-and-the-ubuntu-quickstart-booklet/
<ubuntujenkins> "we should have regular help sessions and classes on things like LaTeX and Python to encourage users"
 * ubuntujenkins adds it to the think about list :P
<ubuntujenkins> what to teach on python for our project
<ubuntujenkins> quickly rules
<humphreybc> heh
<godbyk> to encourage contributors to the project or what?
<ubuntujenkins> "of all skill levels and expertise to help out, with the promise of them learning something and having fun while doing so. We want to include everyone and regardless of their skill set or experience level, we will find something for them to do."
<ubuntujenkins> why on https://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual/factoids does it say "https://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual/factoids"
<ubuntujenkins> * "Ubuntu Manual is written mostly in Python."
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> i guess their code for working out a language confuses python and late
<humphreybc> latex*
<humphreybc> so, what do we think about the press release?
<humphreybc> sound about right?
<godbyk> reading it now
<ubuntujenkins> I like it :-)
 * ubuntujenkins irc has no thumbe up
<ubuntujenkins> *thumbs
<godbyk> pretty good
<ubuntujenkins> I am off to bed if night
<humphreybc> hey daker
<humphreybc> there's a few things we need to do with the website asap
<daker> hi
<daker> what's up ?
<humphreybc> I'd like to have test.ubuntu-manual.org moved over to ubuntu-manual.org by the 25th
<humphreybc> we need to make sure all the links work, we also need to write the code to do the automatic language detection for the download button
<humphreybc> we also need to refine the language list for the website so only languages that are translated are shown in the dropdown list
<humphreybc> otherwise people will choose say, Ancient Greek thinking there is an Ancient Greek site but then be confused when it's in English (coz it hasn't been translated yet)
<daker> sure
<humphreybc> godbyk, what else needs to be done?
<humphreybc> oh also daker, you need to fix the facebook, twitter and planet UMP buttons so that they stay fixed instead of moving when you scroll down the page
<godbyk> humphreybc: we should make sure the download counter scripts are working.
<humphreybc> ah, yeag
<humphreybc> yea*
<humphreybc> so it'd be great if we could get some scripts up and running that count how many times the PDFs have been downloaded \
<humphreybc> then we can see how popular each language is, etc etc
<humphreybc> I'll get the 2nd video finished by this weekend
<humphreybc> and then that can be inserted into the Contributors page
<daker> i'll send you my mugshut
<humphreybc> thanks
<daker> as we say on the launchpad page the RC should be released today ?
<humphreybc> I think so, yes
<humphreybc> It'll just be a build that Kevin uploads
<godbyk> Oh, I guess I can upload something.
<godbyk> I don't know that it's much different. :)
<godbyk> Lemme merge in the bug fixes we made to lucid-e1 with my branch and then upload that.
<humphreybc> that sounds like it could work
<humphreybc> hey, who here can spare an hour to test Ground Control 1.6?
<daker> me
<daker> humphreybc, is there any ppa for the 1.6 ?
<daker> humphreybc, is there any ppa for the 1.6 ?
<humphreybc> i'm just trying to find out from doctormo
<doctormo> hello
<humphreybc> doctormo, meet daker, daker, meet doctormo
<humphreybc> daker wants to help test
<daker> hello
<daker> doctormo,
<daker> how are you ?
<daker> humphreybc, ?
<humphreybc> doctormo, it helps if you talk :)
<daker> hhhh
<daker> he want talk
<daker> or he is just a zombie :D
<daker> $ kill -9  doctormo
<humphreybc> haha
<godbyk> I posted the RC to Launchpad.
<godbyk> If daker or someone would like to update the website, that'd be awesome.
<daker> oki
<godbyk> (I'm not sure how to update the button text.)
<godbyk> You can download the PDF from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> (Big green button on the top right)
<daker> godbyk,
<daker> page 51
<godbyk> <sigh>
<godbyk> what's wrong?
<daker> the screenshot have to be changed
<godbyk> ah, it's using the old screenshot.
<godbyk> sorry.
<godbyk> oh well.
<godbyk> it'll be fixed soon. :)
<daker> oki
<daker> the Selecting search engines screenshot too
<godbyk> they're from when I branched off the main branch.
<godbyk> so I didn't pull in the new screenshots.
<daker> switching to my desktop
<daker> brb
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> Well, that can't be good.
<daker> whag$
<daker> what*
<godbyk> I scored 100 on the nerd quiz that's been making the rounds on Planet Ubuntu.
<daker> godbyk, help
<daker> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubu-man-website-translations
<daker> and click 'status'
<daker> what language should i remove from the list ?
<daker> languages*
<godbyk> From the website dropdown list?
<daker> yes
<godbyk> Hmm.. I s'pose we should set some threshold and remove anything that has less than that amount translated.
<godbyk> Say, anything less than 75%?
<daker> oki
<godbyk> The language names in the drop-down list should also be the native language names, not the English translations of the language names.
<godbyk> So Deutsch instead of German, for instance.
<daker> oki
<daker> hey doctormo !!!
<doctormo> hello
<daker> how are you
<daker> ?
<doctormo> good, a bit tired, think I'm coming down with something
<daker> is there any ppa for the GC 1.6 ?
<doctormo> yes, there are 2
<doctormo> One for the release (1.5) which doesn't work and then one for the nightly build
<doctormo> https://launchpad.net/~groundcontrollers/+archive/dailybuilds
<daker> godbyk, i think we reach our goal 1 139 fans
<godbyk> daker: cool!
<godbyk> daker: have you written any of the download counter scripts yet? do you need any help with them?
<daker> that's fine :)
<doctormo> daker: did you get it working?
<daker> yes
<daker> doctormo, how can i describe changes in multiple lines ?
<doctormo> daker: Do you need to? why do you need to?
<daker> i can't write all the bugs fix in one line :)
<doctormo> Why are you commiting all bug fixes at the same time? seperate them out.
<doctormo> Do smaller commits
<doctormo> That's the basic way of doing it, it makes each fix a seperatable patch then.
<daker> i see
<doctormo> Although I could see a need for adding in something to do multiple lines, it's just not supported right now.
<doctormo> Perhaps a bug added to launchpad and I could wishlist it.
<daker> should i added it as bug or what ?
<doctormo> If you think it's important
<doctormo> thanks for testing by the way, you;ve probably got things to say about it.
<daker> no problem
<daker> doctormo, question : how can i get a branch with GC ?
<doctormo> daker: do you have the project directory inside the Projects directory??
<daker> yes
<doctormo> then there should be a button to get code
<doctormo> or is it get branch
<daker> oki
<daker> daker, can i change the dir "Projects" to "ubuntu-projects" and get the buttons at the top ?
<daker> doctormo, humphreybc  can i change the dir "Projects" to "ubuntu-projects" and get the buttons at the top ?
<humphreybc> nope, i don't think that will work daker
<humphreybc> unless doctormo has built in customizable folders for 1.6?
<daker> that would be great
<humphreybc> I think it's on the wishlist
<humphreybc> just keep harassing doctormo till he implements it
<humphreybc> :
<humphreybc> :)
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org
<humphreybc> what am I looking at?
<daker> language list, icons
<humphreybc> the icons still move when you scroll down, though
<humphreybc> no they don't
<humphreybc> haha
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> just needed to clear the cache
<daker> yes
<humphreybc> so all of these languages are more or less finished?
<daker> yes about 75%
<humphreybc> awesome
<humphreybc> great, and the icons open in a new tab. you never cease to amaze me daker!
<humphreybc> you're brilliant!
<daker> thanks :)
<daker> doctormo, anthor bug
<daker> GC give me a duplicate result
<daker> http://imagebin.org/93808
<daker> humphreybc, i think you've missed something
<humphreybc> hmm?
<daker> we have 1 141 fans
<humphreybc> oh yea, i know :D
<daker> o.O
<humphreybc> I posted the link on the OMG! Ubuntu! fan page
<humphreybc> we got like another 250 fans in 12 hours
<daker> oh
<daker> night all
<doctormo> humphreybc: I think you can change the name of the folder, so long as the .groundcontrol file exists in the dir.
<humphreybc> ah
 * humphreybc is cracking up at some the stuff people are posting about my uni
<humphreybc> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112309325466828&v=wall&ref=nf
<vish> humphreybc: hmm, where's daker ?
<vish> oh , he's off to sleep ;)
<vish> humphreybc: do you know about the facebook and twitter icons on the http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/  ?
<vish> where he got them? they seem to be tango icons...
 * vish brb
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<thorwil> morning!
<humphreybc> vish: i got them from google :P
<ubuntujenkins> hello hemanth I am about to approve you now, I will talk you though our code base/plans for the next release
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, roger that
<ubuntujenkins> if you look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot you will see we have three branches
<ubuntujenkins> lp:quickshot is the main dvelopment focus where all the program stuff is.
<hemanth> ok
<ubuntujenkins> lp:quickshot/release contains this release in a sub folder
<ubuntujenkins> lp:quickshot/server is the next server release
<hemanth> ok
<ubuntujenkins> we haven't started had coding work on the next release yet we are on the planning stage this is what we aim to include https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/next-release-plan this was out last meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings#Quickshot meeting 18/04/2010
<ubuntujenkins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Meetings#Quickshot meeting 18/04/2010
<ubuntujenkins> copy the whole link ^
<hemanth> saved
<ubuntujenkins> we are planing a major redesign for the next release and I am currently sorting out the gui design. We will be starting almost from scratch for this release but we can't do anything to lp:quickshot untill i know the the server is pointing at the release branch
<hemanth> ok, thats exciting as its coding from starch
<ubuntujenkins> if you look at lp:quickshot/release and get your self familier with the code we have so far. We will be using bits of it but we will be rewrting 90% of it
<hemanth> okies i'm fetching the source
<humphreybc> hey hemanth, are you a new Quickshot team member?
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: meet humphreybc the manual project lead
<hemanth> humphreybc, yes :)
<humphreybc> awesome :)
<ubuntujenkins> also hemanth can we try and sort out your bug please?
<humphreybc> welcome to the team! Where did you hear about the project?
<hemanth> i saw an link to ubuntu-manual page on my facebook wall from one of the ubuntu developers don rembr who exactly!
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yes that would be fun
<humphreybc> nice!
<ubuntujenkins> looking at it you are trying to run it runing it
<ubuntujenkins> *in your user
 * ubuntujenkins hit enter and not back 
<ubuntujenkins> and your not seeing any gui?
<humphreybc> well any questions you have, just ask one of us. Luke (ubuntujenkins) is the main Quickshot chap, I'm the team lead, Kevin (godbyk) is all things LaTeX, Thorsten (thorwil) is our artwork chap, Josh (dutchie) manages translations and other miscellaneous things
<humphreybc> Red_Hamster X and titeuf also work on Quickshot
<hemanth> hi to all :)
<humphreybc> and there are a few people not in the channel like daker who's our web developer, Ilya who's our author coordinator and Jamin who's our head of editing who you'll meet soon enough!
<hemanth> :)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yes i see the UI, after i hit the login button it bombs
<humphreybc> and with that I'm going to watch some Firefly episodes!
<hemanth> ha ha ok :)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth can you run gnome-session-save --logout-dialog on the command line please?
<ubuntujenkins> are you using gnome?
<hemanth> me on kde! have installed all the gnome core also, unable to login to gnome on lucid beta2
<hemanth> Failed to call logout: The name org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
<ubuntujenkins> I have a feeling as you are on kde that is the problem, hmmI wonder what package is needed for that
<ubuntujenkins> can you please install gnome-session
<hemanth> o! ok, i'm doing a fresh apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
<ubuntujenkins> that works as well :)
<hemanth> ok 8 more mins...
<hemanth> i m checking out the qucikshot code in bin
<ubuntujenkins> the AIM this release is to try and avoid problems like this and make it run across every linux machine how easy it will be i don't know
<hemanth> ok :)
<trijntje> Can someon explain me how this "\menu{Music \then Quit}" is parsed, i'm not sure how to translate it
<thorwil> trijntje: does that refer to an application that has no File menu, but a Music menu instead?
<trijntje> Yes, Rhythmbox
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, its bombing in the startNewSession method i presume
<ubuntujenkins> thats what i thought hemanth which is why i gessed at the gnome-session save bit
<thorwil> trijntje: then i surely means go to the Music menu, choose Quit item
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: correct me if i am wrong but you only translate the "Music" and the "Quit" bit
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: ^^
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, 1 more min i will be getting all gnome
<ubuntujenkins> cool,
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Right.
<godbyk> trijntje: Just translate 'Music' and 'Quit'.
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<godbyk> Leave anything preceded by a backslash (\) untranslated.
<trijntje> Thanks ubuntujenkins and godbyk
<godbyk> So \menu and \then are left as-is (along with the { braces }.)
<trijntje> I know a bit of LaTeX, but I was wondering if \then was used to escape from the \menu{} or something like that
<godbyk> trijntje: If you haven't already, take a look at this PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
<godbyk> trijntje: Chapter 4 gives a huge list of LaTeX commands and shows what parts should and shouldn't be translated.
<godbyk> If you have further questions, feel free to ask here or on the ubuntu-manual mailing list.
<godbyk> (I'm off to bed now, though.  G'night!)
<ubuntujenkins> night godbyk
<trijntje> thanks godbyk, I hadnt seen that yet
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, same error again, gnome-session daemon will not be running i blv...
<ubuntujenkins> if you log into gnoe i would think it would work, all that button does is log you out to the login screen. I will add a comment to the bug expaling what we have found
<ubuntujenkins> *gnome
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sorry missed ur previous message, guessed it right! gnome-session was not running, ran it and kde went non responsive
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: right makes sense, Thats what i thought as well
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ya able to login now, so the fix is to check if gnome-session is running, if not try to start it in bg, if failed warn the user to install it or make it complaint with any right?
<ubuntujenkins> I hope to make it compliant with any for the next release, as the manual is the only tema using it and they want gnome stuff, its not too much of a concern for the current release.
<hemanth> o ok
<hemanth> shall i state this observation in the bug report as a comment?
<ubuntujenkins> yep feel free to
<hemanth> :)
<TommyBrunn> Hey guys, what's the preferred editor for LaTeX in Linux?
<ubuntujenkins> gedit :-)
<ubuntujenkins> thats what is use any way
<ubuntujenkins> *i
<TommyBrunn> Sure, but I'd prefer it if there was a less cumbersome way to add the markup than to remember every single tag in my head or copy'n'pasting.
<ubuntujenkins> I am not aware of a program that does that, I think some of the markups are specific to us. A program/plugin that does it for the manual on the list of things to do.
<vish> humphreybc: well , they dont fit the page ;) those two are the only tango icons in that page.. :)  tsk tsk , thorwil  bad designer ;p
<thorwil> vish: what page are you talking about?
<vish> thorwil:  http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/   not you i guess, but easier to blame you ;)
<vish> thorwil: the facebook and the twitter icons
<thorwil> vish: yes, not mine, but the um-planet one is
<TommyBrunn> Alright. Thanks anyway ubuntujenkins. I was just looking for an easier way to format papers for my university, without having to manually remember every single damn APA rule.
<ubuntujenkins> there may be one TommyBrunn but i don't know about it.
<trijntje> It seems that teh Artist/Album browser entry is removed from the rhythmbox Control menu
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i commented with the workaround i tried now
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I like the work around, ulitmatley we need to find a command that works accross every desktop ui
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, okies
<ubuntujenkins> that may be rather hard to find though
<hemanth> like the gdmflexiserver we have ksmserver right? but what if the user is not use kde nor gnome!
<ubuntujenkins> I am not fmiliar with kde, we may have to work out what desktop ui the user is using and run a command based on that
<hemanth> i was looking into kde tech base http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Architecture/KDE3/Session_Management
<ubuntujenkins> If we can generate a list of all desktop envrioments and the logout command then that might be a way to do it
<hemanth> yup
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, collected all the environments, now collecting the commands
<ubuntujenkins> wow fast mover hemanth
<hemanth> thanks, there are about 12!
<ubuntujenkins> really that many! we have to work out how to detect them all. how many of them use gtk?
<hemanth> not sure how many use gtk, where can i share the list?
<hemanth> pasite?
<ubuntujenkins> pad.ubuntu-uk.org/qsdesktopenviroments
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, https://gist.github.com/9f230db910e682a3aad9
<hemanth> is gist fine or should i repaste to earthpad?
<ubuntujenkins> If we use the ether pad we don't have to all login touse it. I haev just pasted it there
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, see that, had heard much about earth pad using it now
<ubuntujenkins> its really good. we aplays put our stuff on pad.ubuntu-uk.org there are other etherpads
<hemanth> ok :)
<popey> \o/ etherpad :)
<hemanth> http://etherpad.com is down, is it free to host ?
<Daviey> hemanth: etherpad is free software, http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org is an instance :)
 * popey wonders if Daviey has 'etherpad' on hilight
<Daviey> popey: nope!
<popey> or ubuntu-uk ?
<hemanth> Daviey, on it
<ubuntujenkins> Daviey: always pops up when etherpad is mentioned
<Daviey> popey: yus :)
<Daviey> Which i assume yo do to ;P
<daker> hi back
<ubuntujenkins> hello daker
<daker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5E0W2oGBPA
<popey> Daviey: yup :)
<humphreybc> hey, look everyone, it's Matt Griffin!! *applause*
<daker> hi mattgriffin :)
<mattgriffin> daker: hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello mattgriffin o/
<mattgriffin> heh
<humphreybc> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmattgriffin!
<daker> !hello
<manualbot> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Enjoy your stay!
<humphreybc> :D
<daker> ubuntujenkins, :p
<mattgriffin> all these smiling faces so early in the morning :)
<humphreybc> Well, you know, we're cool like that haha
<mattgriffin> ok... off to a meeting. have a great day!
<humphreybc> see ya mattgriffin!! have a fabulous day!
<daker> see you mattgriffin
<mattgriffin> ttfn
<humphreybc> apparently quickshot is worth $40,663
<ubuntujenkins> what??!!! where did you get that from?
<daker> ha
<humphreybc> https://www.ohloh.net/p/quickshot
<humphreybc> bottom right
<humphreybc> the Ubuntu Manual Project is worth $152,000 though :P
<humphreybc> "This calculator estimates how much it would cost to hire a team to write this project from scratch."
<ubuntujenkins> wheres out pay?
<humphreybc> hehe
<humphreybc> nothing compared to Open Office though, haha https://www.ohloh.net/p/openoffice
<ubuntujenkins> wow
<daker> Wowww o.O
<humphreybc> VLC is worth 7 and a half million bucks, 139 person years
<humphreybc> hence, the power of open source
<humphreybc> vish, thorwil, if you guys want to create a better facebook icon and twitter icon for the website, feel free ;)
<daker> humphreybc, +1
<thorwil> humphreybc: i didn't so far because the icons are well known as the are, even if that makes them stand out a bit much
<humphreybc> yeah, i don't think it's the end of the world
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc, daker, and hemanth have a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp that is the latest version of the new quickshot ui. None of it is final.
<thorwil> daker: but consider to turn off the drop shadows for the those 3 buttons
<vish> thorwil: we dont have to redesign ;)  just removing the tango inner-outlines would do as well
<daker> thorwil, kk
<daker> ubuntujenkins, question : who is hemanth ?
<daker> this the first time i saw him in the channel ? i am right ?
<thorwil> vish: you have my blessing to tweak them ;)
<ubuntujenkins> daker: hemanth is a new member he is new to the project
<humphreybc> looking good ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> any suggestions humphreybc
<hemanth> daker,hi :)
<vish> thorwil: whats wrong with having the drop shadows?
<vish> daker: what size icons are required there?
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: i'll have an indepth look soon, and do some mockups in photoshop for you
<humphreybc> later this week, or weekend
<vish> daker: rather what is the size of the UM icon?
<humphreybc> what's the bar thing down the bottom? Is that a progress bar?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: don't worry about photo shop just yet wait untill we have had a quickshot miling list discussion on it. The progress bar only shows when the user is doing something
<thorwil> vish: the shadows make the area around the buttons too busy. plus i prefer buttons to sit on a surface instead of floating around
<humphreybc> thorwil: at some point, you might like to design a new quickshot logo :P
<ubuntujenkins> oo that would be interesting
<thorwil> humphreybc: :p makes me want not to ;)
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: okay. If you're going to have a progress bar prominently displayed in the UI, you'd need to have it across all windows to keep consistency
<daker> vish, 32x32
<vish> daker: ty
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: it only shows when needed. its not always there. I think its on nearly all of the windows.
<vish> thorwil: could you send me the UM icon?
<humphreybc> thorwil: hehe. well since Quickshot will be able to be used by any projects, we shouldn't have the circle of friends in the logo, and the wallpaper is from karmic... and there's a lot of brown :P
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: right. I'll have a closer look in the next few days :)
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil: the ultimate aim for this release is to make it cross linux in every desktop enviroment
<humphreybc> daker, aren't you going to remove the drop shadows from the website entirely?
<humphreybc> they don't work in chrome
<daker> but it works in the others
<ubuntujenkins> thats why i don't see them
<thorwil> vish: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/files/53  icon-button_planet.svg and .png
<humphreybc> Looking at Firefox and Chrome side-by-side, I think I prefer the site without drop shadows entirely
<humphreybc> (I know, crazy coming from me!)
<ubuntujenkins> same
<daker> so should i remove it ?
<humphreybc> daker: yes
<daker> hemanth, you are welcome
<daker> humphreybc, oki
<hemanth> daker, thank you :)
<thorwil> humphreybc: just like the oral and anal phases and puberty, the drop shadow phase usually doesn't last forever
<humphreybc> LOL
<humphreybc> thorwil, I've never known you to be so vulgar in a publicly logged chatroom :P
<daker> lol
<vish> humphreybc: whaaaaat!  thorwil can do better ;p
<thorwil> humphreybc: hah, don't ask kwwii bout that. or vish
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: when is Quickshot 1.0 slated for release?
 * humphreybc has 39mb of mobile data to burn on his android phone in half an hour
 * hemanth quick restart trying ati drivers on lucid 
 * humphreybc is downloading stuff from the market
<semioticrobotic> 'morning
<humphreybc> hey bryan
<humphreybc> is it just me, or are most android apps stink?
<semioticrobotic> ha!
<semioticrobotic> couldn't tell you
<semioticrobotic> I don't have an Android phone :(
<semioticrobotic> the new HTC/Verizon thing (in the States) looks interesting
<daker> hemanth, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> humphreybc,  http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/
<daker> sorry
<semioticrobotic> wow, looking great!
<humphreybc> looks good daker
<semioticrobotic> the other day, I was reviewing the "getting started as an author or editor page," and the instructions all pertained to helping with quickshot
<semioticrobotic> glad to see that's been altered, darker
<semioticrobotic> that countdown timer can't be correct!  8 days!  o_0
<daker> semioticrobotic, it correct
<humphreybc> anyone who hasn't seen already: http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/announcing-getting-started-with-ubuntu-10-10-quickshot-v1-0-and-the-ubuntu-quickstart-booklet/
<semioticrobotic> oh, I know :)
<semioticrobotic> I was just commenting on how quickly the release is approaching
<humphreybc> I downloaded the RC just now
<humphreybc> godbyk has done a good job touching up some of the formatting issues
<humphreybc> like where screenshots would interrupt in bad places
<semioticrobotic> having a look right now
<semioticrobotic> yes, I see
<semioticrobotic> very nice indeed
<semioticrobotic> the glossary seems to be showing some odd spacing
<semioticrobotic> oh!  I see now
<semioticrobotic> it's grouped by letter
<semioticrobotic> make sense
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: Would it be best for editors to got through their chapters and identify a few concrete areas to be addresses for lucid-e2?
<semioticrobotic> what's our plan of attack, so to speak?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> hmm
<semioticrobotic> er, addressed
<humphreybc> the first thing we should do after the release is set up a couple of methods for people to give feedback
<semioticrobotic> I know we're adding content only in dire cases (a good idea), but it may still be a good idea to generate a few to-do lists
<humphreybc> so we should have a survey
<semioticrobotic> ok
<humphreybc> with some questions like "What do you think is missing?" blah blah etcetera
<semioticrobotic> ok
<humphreybc> and also, we should encourage people to report bugs
<humphreybc> If we do those things, the to do list will be made for us ;)
<semioticrobotic> ideally, it'd be nice to have a feedback system that funneled all comments into a general inbox, which was subsequently managed by someone who could delegate those tasks/suggestions to individual chapter editors
<semioticrobotic> gotcha
<humphreybc> yeah, that would be great
<semioticrobotic> of course, that's "ideally"
<humphreybc> when we set up our bug reporting/feedback form with the Launchpad API
<semioticrobotic> I noticed that in your "State of the Manual Address" :)
<humphreybc> we'll have something like that, and basically recruit someone as a full time triager and assigner
<humphreybc> so people will always have stuff to do ;)
<humphreybc> hehehe
<semioticrobotic> what kind of custom Launchpad stuff are we thinking about?
<semioticrobotic> awesome
<humphreybc> did you like it? I was trying to emulate Mark. I showed Mark it, he said it's awesome
<semioticrobotic> haha
<semioticrobotic> then you succeeded
<humphreybc> well not so much doing anything with LP itself but rather making our own form that uses the API to report bugs under our project
<semioticrobotic> the zeal is there -- "100 percent error free"
<semioticrobotic> gotcha, gotcha
<humphreybc> the front end would be a customized pretty form
<semioticrobotic> that would be truly amazing, and so helpful
<humphreybc> back end would just be what we see now, Launchpad
<humphreybc> Also, by Maverick I want to have everything shifted off the wiki
<humphreybc> Most of it is already
<semioticrobotic> the GDocs solution worked for lucid-e1
<semioticrobotic> but it was a bit chaotic
<semioticrobotic> shifted off the wiki, yeah
<humphreybc> We also will need to look at the website in depth, analyze the instructions, create scripts where we can automate some instructions, use apt:urls and stuff more, so it's super simple
<semioticrobotic> yes, mostly everything has been transferred already (thanks to the excellent work by the Web team)
<humphreybc> at the moment our instructions are a bit lengthy and off putting
<semioticrobotic> sure, understandable
<humphreybc> the only thing we use the wiki for at the moment is to post meeting related stuff
<semioticrobotic> I can attest to that somewhat.  As a relative noob, I struggled (as you know) to catch up to the project when I first started
<semioticrobotic> but now that I'm in synch, everything is running smoothly
<humphreybc> there's no reason why we can't keep using the wiki as a team, but I don't want any *customers* / readers seeing the wiki
<semioticrobotic> so the fewer barriers to entry, the better
<humphreybc> yeah, exactly
<humphreybc> I can't imagine how difficult it would be to join our team now
<semioticrobotic> right -- wiki for "internal use" only
<semioticrobotic> :)
<humphreybc> exactly
<humphreybc> so the main wiki page will have a big phat button that says "REDIRECT ME TO THE WEBSITE"
<humphreybc> or something
<semioticrobotic> I learned a lot about Linux, Ubuntu, and RSA encryption during that initiation period!
<semioticrobotic> right
<humphreybc> eventually we'll phase out the wiki link, most people will never see it
<semioticrobotic> perhaps the website could just contain a blog or other CMS that would allow you to post meeting times?
<humphreybc> not using the wiki gives a lot more flexibility on appearance, content, image placement and translations
<semioticrobotic> yes, definitely
<thorwil> daker: looks pretty good, except the footer. "Some rights reserved" and a CC license is odd. if it stays 2 lines of text, they should have the same alignment and both be either the last thing on the "page", or sit below it
<humphreybc> yeah I was thinking about that, I don't see the benefits of developing a CMS just for meetings at the moment when the wiki works fine as is
<humphreybc> but in the future, if we find we need it, we'll definitely be doing something like that
<semioticrobotic> very true
<humphreybc> i'm just looking at the instructions for getting started as an author now
<humphreybc> it's way too complicated
<daker> thorwil, in what language ?
<thorwil> daker: English
 * humphreybc is going to start creating some work item b-b-blueprints for lucid-e2 and maverick!
<semioticrobotic> humphreybc: Taking it one step at a time, it isn't TOO bad ... but it LOOKS complicated, and that's a barrier to entry
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> we can make it a lot better
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I have targeted the release of quickshot for 21/08/2010
<semioticrobotic> b-b-blueprints!
<semioticrobotic> exciting stuff
<daker> thorwil, capture pls
 * ubuntujenkins needs to do quickshot blueprints
<humphreybc> when we get packaged in the Software Center, we should also have a package that people can install that basically does everything
<humphreybc> does everything, ie, everything needed to help
<semioticrobotic> the manual will be packaged in the software center?
<humphreybc> then we can just instruct wannabe contributors to install that package
<thorwil> daker: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/099afff23b35db0fc65ba852a7d0b968
<humphreybc> I'm hoping it will be available in the SC for maverick, yes, and I'll be talking to chaps at UDS about that
<semioticrobotic> that's great
<semioticrobotic> so while we may not be able to get it "on the desktop" for 10.10, there's a good chance it'll be easily attainable
<daker> thorwil, is this firefox or what ?
<thorwil> daker: yes, FF 3.5.9
<daker> what resolution ?
<humphreybc> get ready for blueprint emails galore
<semioticrobotic> (site is looking good in Safari 4.0.4, by the way)
<daker> thorwil, i think is due to your resolution
<thorwil> daker: it's independent of browser window size. the offset of the last line varies between languages. it's zero for German
<thorwil> daker: 1280x1024, but there would have to be something very odd going on for that to have an effect
<daker> this is very odd
<daker> :D
<semioticrobotic> okay friends, gotta run
<semioticrobotic> o/
<semioticrobotic> take care
<ubuntujenkins> bye semioticrobotic
<daker> bye semioticrobotic
<humphreybc> see ya Bryan
<daker> oh yo yo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1xwtv2HRyc
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, in the list we made most of them have no info on save and logout!
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth:hhmm, there must be some command somewhere but it must be very hard to find. We will just go with what we have at the moment and keep looking into it
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, gnome,kde and xfce i have collected
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ÃtoilÃ© i'm hearing it for the first time
<daker> brb
<ubuntujenkins> can we find the best way to tell which one is running? I guess looking at the proccess list.
<humphreybc> Launchpad being slow isn't that great when trying to create a zillion blueprints
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ya that way it can be done
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, but i think there must be some generic work around or some library in py to manage this
<ubuntujenkins> I guess there might be, something to look into
<hemanth> yup
<humphreybc> ...aand the blueprint emails start pouring in
<humphreybc> it's always funny when this happens. We get a tonne of new blueprints, I seem to get a tonne of karma, and we usually have about half a dozen people leave the team due to the spam on the ML hahaha
<ubuntujenkins> I was about to say that
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, no one responded from #python also hmm...
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: its abit hit and miss if they give a response. also try #ubuntu-app-devel they are helpful it can take a while for someone to respond
<hemanth> ok, joined #ubuntu-app-devel
<nisshh> whats up everyone?
<ubuntujenkins> there are not many people in there hemanth but they are alwasy helpfull
<humphreybc> hey nisshh, not much. wanna help me sort out some blueprints?
<nisshh> humphreybc: sure
<nisshh> not doing much atm
<humphreybc> sweet. could you go through all the blueprints for the 1st edition (ie, one we've been working on) and make sure their statuses reflect the real status, so for example, chapter 3 has "Needs code review" when in actual fact it should be "Implemented"
<humphreybc> actually, ALL of the chapter blueprints should now be "Implemented" because we're past the writing freeze
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> you'll get a crapload of karma!
<nisshh> yea, i could use some too!
<nisshh> is it just me or does launchpad.net load WAY faster>
<humphreybc> way faster than..?
<nisshh> than a a week or two ago
<trijntje> ubuntujenkins: I think you adviced me to install ubuntu to a usb-disk to capture the screenshots of the installation, but this is a bad idea ias it will still install grub to the primary HDD
<trijntje> Just for your information
<nisshh> humphreybc: what about chapter6--old?
<humphreybc> get rid of that
<humphreybc> also stuff that we've already passed, like beta-release for lucid and stuff
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> pretty much anything that's targeted to the lucid-e1 series needs to be either set to "implemented" or re-targeted to lucid-e2 if we haven't finsihed it
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> anything you're not sure about, ask me and i'll tell you where to re-target it
<ubuntujenkins> trijntje: I hadn't thought about that, thanks for letting me know.
<humphreybc> you just do the lucid-e1 stuff, i'm working on lucid-e2 and maverick blueprints
<nisshh> right, what should i mark chapter6--old as then?
<humphreybc> trijntje: it won't do that if you install it using the USB Disc Creator in Ubuntu
<humphreybc> nisshh: mark it obsoleted by something, chapter6
<humphreybc> or just implemented to get rid of it
<nisshh> ok cool
<trijntje> humphreybc: will that also show the slideshow etc? I cant recall i saw that
<humphreybc> for the next release we're not going to have blueprints for each chapter
<nisshh> right, whats going to happen then?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: trijntje means when you do the install from the live cd you need to choose somewhere to install the os to get the partioning screenshot
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: oooooooooohhhhhhhh
<humphreybc> nisshh: probably just a blueprint for writing, then we can use the whiteboard to assign authors
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> re-target editing, formatting, translations, glossary, referencing and credits to lucid-e2
<humphreybc> re-target optimization to maverick
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> did you change the milestones as well?
<humphreybc> most of them should be RC
<humphreybc> (for maverick)
<humphreybc> there aren't any milestones for lucid-e2
<humphreybc> we're not going to have an alpha/beta/etc for that
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> well, we might do
<humphreybc> we might have a writing freeze
<nisshh> writing freeze is good
<nisshh> kind of like ubuntus feature freezr
<humphreybc> awesome, so after 20 minutes of blueprint editing, we now have a list of current blueprints targeted to stuff in the future!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> ill update all the milestones next
<humphreybc> everyone, go and look here, see if we've missed anything for lucid-e2/maverick
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<nisshh> humphreybc: what about final-release-lucid? iv left it at e1 for now
<humphreybc> yeah, it has to be left at e1 till it's actually released ;)
<nisshh> oh yea , silly me!
<nisshh> humphreybc: which milestones need updating>
<nisshh> ?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> pretty much everything you've already changed
<nisshh> ah right
<humphreybc> make sure they're targeted to the correct milestone. If it's for Maverick, ask me what milestone (there are four: alpha, beta, RC and final)
<humphreybc> daker: what's your launchpad username?
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> nvm, found it
<daker> done
<humphreybc> adnane002 :)
<humphreybc> also, nisshh, the blueprints that have been re-targeted need to have their status updated, ie, reset to zero
<humphreybc> for example, translations haven't started on lucid-e2 yet
<nisshh> humphreybc: what should editing, formatting, etc, be? e2 or maverick?
<humphreybc> e2
<nisshh> right yea
<nisshh> humphreybc: optimizing? its for maverick, but which milestone?
<humphreybc> final
<nisshh> yep
<daker> humphreybc, question
<humphreybc> shoot
<daker> why autodetection language when i click on the button ?
<humphreybc> because we want to reduce the number of steps people need to do to get the manual
<humphreybc> if we can do something automatically for them, we should
<humphreybc> makes their life easier
<daker> oki
<humphreybc> but we need to make sure we have a plan B if the auto-detected language isn't what they wanted
<humphreybc> for example, if they're on a shared computer at an airport or something
<humphreybc> or maybe they want to give it to a friend
<daker> what button ? on the home page or the downloads page N
<daker> ?
<humphreybc> in most cases, the auto detection should work well, if not, we should have another way for them to select a different language
<humphreybc> on the home page only
<humphreybc> the downloads page button should take into the settings they've chosen
<humphreybc> like the mockup
<daker> its already done :)
<humphreybc> nice!
<nisshh> i really love docky!
<humphreybc> when it doesn't crash on ya
<humphreybc> :P
<humphreybc> now, to clear all these emails
<humphreybc> 26 in fact
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: any idea why the quickshot blueprints are not being mailed to the quickshot mailing list?>
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> ask in #launchpad
<humphreybc> say I sent you :P
<nisshh> humphreybc: i *think* im done
<humphreybc> hehe
<humphreybc> i'll have a look tomorrow, probably create some more blueprints for maverick and e2
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> anything else fun for me to do?
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> not really :P
<nisshh> aawwwww!
<humphreybc> take a look at the latest Ground Control branch
<humphreybc> do some testing, daker has done some, he can help
<humphreybc> report bugs
<humphreybc> Also you can check out the Quickshot user interface design idea from ubuntujenkins, he'll give you the link
<nisshh> hmmmm
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
<humphreybc> you can also go through the bugs that have been reported on launchpad and make sure their status is correct, also if they're targeted correctly
<humphreybc> answer any questions we may have
<nisshh> ok
<daker> sometimes GC takes a long time to open the window
<daker> like now
<daker> more than 4min
<humphreybc> sign up to ohloh.net and https://openhatch.org
<humphreybc> find our projects, mark yourself as a contributor, look at stats :P
<nisshh> yep
<humphreybc> lots of stuff to do!
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> keep pestering daker every 5 minutes till he sends me his mugshot
<nisshh> id like to help out alot more than i have been to be honest
<humphreybc> then pester me every 5 minutes to put his mugshot into the video and re-render it
<humphreybc> well, you can help with research and feedback actually
<nisshh> oooh, bad daker!
<humphreybc> i'm sure Ilya will need help
<humphreybc> we need to create a survey after this release to get some feedback
<humphreybc> start thinking of some questions we'd need to answer
<humphreybc> ask*
<nisshh> whats the survey collecting information about?
<nisshh> generally
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: nice looking ui mockup
<daker> f***
<nisshh> daker: what was that?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks nisshh any thoughts?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ill let you know, still looking through i
<nisshh> it
<ubuntujenkins> The progrsess bar will only show when the program is doing
<ubuntujenkins> something i.e. setting up a user account or checking the server.
<daker> GC freezes my ubuntu and i was forced to restart it
<humphreybc> nisshh: if you're looking for extra stuff to do there is always logistical things, we need more people triaging bugs, targeting blueprints, assigning bugs, answering questions, replying to emails in the ML etc
<humphreybc> daker: sounds like a bug to report ;)
<humphreybc> the surveys would have the goal of figuring out what we can improve on for lucid e2, and what we need to add
<daker> well i think it's due to my connexion
<nisshh> ok, ill think about it
<humphreybc> look at Ilya's previous survey
<humphreybc> it's on our wiki somewhere
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Research/SurveyJan2010
<humphreybc> hey gnarly, the next Ubuntu Bug Day is targeting Evince
<humphreybc> okay i'm off to bed to read for a bit
<humphreybc> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc
<daker> night humphreybc
<humphreybc> also, you know that memory leak I had?
<humphreybc> it's this bug here
<humphreybc> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/565981
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 565981 in xorg-server "[KMS] gem objects not deallocated" [Critical,Confirmed]
<daker> ubuntujenkins, google gravity http://bit.ly/dBqCXD
<ubuntujenkins> daker: that is AMAZING it moves when you move your window as well
<ubuntujenkins> and you can even search with it
<daker> hhhhhhhhh
<daker> brb
<ubuntujenkins> brb
 * ubuntujenkins grrr my internet keeps diying
<ubuntujenkins> did i miss anything whilst th uni interent failed?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Nope, you didn't miss anything.
<godbyk> My Internet may be down for a bit this afternoon if the cable guy shows up.
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks godbyk, ok lets hope he fixes it this time
<godbyk> I'm going to make a sandwich.  brb.
<godbyk> Me, too.
<godbyk> Tired of it being down all the time.
<daker> ubuntujenkins, http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/help
<ubuntujenkins> daker: thats good there is one thing that needs to go on there
<daker> ?
<ubuntujenkins> to follow still typing it
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> you can do screenshots in other languages you will need to have other language packs installed. Log out of the quickshot user, choose the quickshot user and you can change the langauge in the bottom left corner. Quickshot will remain in english but the rest of the desktop will be in the langauge you choose
<ubuntujenkins> daker: ^ something like that please. I may have made a typo in that so please check it
<Steve^> hi
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i am not good in english :)
<ubuntujenkins> ok daker let me double check it
<daker> Steve^, hi
<ubuntujenkins> daker: To do screenshots in other languages you will need to have other language packs installed. Log out of the quickshot user, then choose the quickshot user. You can change the language in the bottom left corner. Quickshot will remain in English but the rest of the desktop will be in the language you choose
<daker> oki
<daker> should i add it at the end ?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, people ask that question allot
<ubuntujenkins> erm..
<ubuntujenkins> yes the end will be fine
<ubuntujenkins> hello Steve^
<daker> oki
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<Steve^> I write a lot of documentation for my team at work and I like Ubuntu, so I figure this might be a good way to give back to the project
<ubuntujenkins> cool, are you farmiliar with laytex?
<ubuntujenkins> we always need more people
<ubuntujenkins> laytex is easy to get the hang of
<Steve^> yea, used it for my dissertation
<ubuntujenkins> cool let me find the style guide
<ubuntujenkins> http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf is the style guide,
<Steve^> just following the startup guide, found a mistake already :)
<ubuntujenkins> where? have you looked at http://ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved/authors
<Steve^> yea, can't branch without telling bzr my launchpad id first
<daker> yes
<ubuntujenkins> we all work on the main branch but please don't touch lucid/e1
<ubuntujenkins> sorry dontt touch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1 its on a wrtting freeze
<Steve^> ok, my bzr is too old aswell
<Steve^> which is because I'm running 9.04
<ubuntujenkins> you can't compile the manual with out texlive 2009 its about 2gb to download btw
<dutchie> only if you get all of it
<Steve^> that's quite large
<dutchie> not sure what the minimal size of latex is, godbyk may know
<ubuntujenkins> or you could do a dutchie and cause lots of problems :P
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: oh, thanks
<ubuntujenkins> :-)
<Steve^> latex for windows was just under 200 meg I believe
<godbyk> I'm not sure what the minimal installation size is. Sorry.
<Steve^> which I thought was ridiculous
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: are you oggcamping?
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: i want to but the train tickets are really expensive and I have no where to stay
<dutchie> :(
<dutchie> bring a sleeping bag, it'll probably be warm and there are loads of parks
<dutchie> if you start walking now, you'll have loads of time
<ubuntujenkins> its a 4 hour train journey, I like walking long distances but thats too far
<daker> godbyk, ubuntujenkins, dutchie Lucid RC hasn't been released yet ?
<ubuntujenkins> daker: no not yet the anoucment isn't out
<dutchie> tomorrow iirc
<dutchie> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule
<ubuntujenkins> Steve^: give a shout in here if you get stuck btw.
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: I hope ogg camp is near home next time
<dutchie> the rumour is that it'll be on the south coast in uupc land
<dutchie> there, or germany
<ubuntujenkins> no oxford or nottingham area is good <<cough>> popey
<Steve^> ubuntujenkins, "create symlinks to standard directories", what am I making symlinks to?
<Steve^> I need to know in order to decide where to put the links
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: will give the best answer, I am not 100% sure only 90%
<dutchie> Steve^: /usr/local
<dutchie> usually a good idea
<daker> ubuntujenkins, i think we migrate all the wiki to the website
<godbyk> Steve^: Definitely make the symlinks.
<ubuntujenkins> WE need to work on the quickshot content
<ubuntujenkins> sorry about the caps
<godbyk> Steve^: Your other option is to add the lengthy texlive binary dir to your PATH.
<ubuntujenkins> I knew we needed to make the symlinks but not 100% sure where too
<dutchie> default's fine :)
<dutchie> sticks manpages and things in the right place too
<doctormo> humphreybc: thanks for the good writeup of the manual teams direction and posting it to learning
<dutchie> doctormo: he is asleep
<dutchie> give it a few hours, and he'll show up
<doctormo> dutchie: I'm sure that he'll get the message in the either of time.
<dutchie> not when he's not online
<dutchie> I'll pass it along if you like
<trijntje> is 29th of april also the translation deadline for the manual or is that the 22th?
<dutchie> there is no translation deadline
<ubuntujenkins> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+question/106356 trijntje
<trijntje> thanks ubuntujenkins, so the manual will not be included in the live-cd?
<dutchie> too big, unfortunately
<Steve^> why was tex chosen over HTML?
<dutchie> because we wanted a single pdf
<Steve^> why?
<Steve^> I suppose you can convert tex to HTML but not the other way around
<dutchie> the point of the project is to produce a single, easy-to-access file that has all the content in one place
<dutchie> HTML is not "all in one place"
<Steve^> oh
<Steve^> so actually, you are writing a book
<Steve^> then I'm probably wasting my time here
<godbyk> Steve^: Yeah, we're writing a book.  We'll be making printed copies available soon, too.
<godbyk> Steve^: What are you interested in doing?
<Steve^> something lower level than what is currently in your PDF
<godbyk> "lower level"?
<Steve^> for example, would it ever include information about services?
<Steve^> or how the things in /etc/rcx.d work?
<dutchie> no
<dutchie> more "how to install a printer"
<Steve^> then that's too boring for me
<Steve^> I wanted to make the geeky side of Linux more accessible
<dutchie> well, we are planning an advanced manaul
<Steve^> I think you have placed a massive restriction on it having to be in a book format
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: where is the link to the etherpad that contains that?
<Steve^> someone is always going to be in charge of a table of contents, that no author can go outside of
<Steve^> Sure, there is a basic set of checkboxes that have to be ticked, but there is absolutely no scope for articles on top of that
<dutchie> oh
<dutchie> Ubuntu Contributors Manual (Scratched)
<dutchie> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd
 * dutchie wishes people would tell him these things
<ubuntujenkins> i didn't know either, are well more time to focus on programming quickshot
<Steve^> What is that pad and why is it so slow?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie
<Steve^> ah, it has loaded
<Steve^> that's pretty cool
<Steve^> anyway
<ubuntujenkins> Steve^: do you hav any php or python knowledge?
<Steve^> yes
<ubuntujenkins> which one? have you heard of quickshot?
<Steve^> I understand that it makes screenshots of things and I have knowledge of both
<Steve^> by trade, I am a programmer
<daker> http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/
<Steve^> strangely enough I thought this project was a good idea because I could contribute by writing rather than programming
<ubuntujenkins> well we have a new release planned, these are the features we aim to add https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot/next-release-plan
<Steve^> dutchie, is the Ubuntu Contributors Manual the same as the advanced manual?
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> and "was"
<Steve^> then there is no hope
<godbyk> So much despair! :)
<daker> ubuntujenkins, godbyk , dutchie  do you have any good tutorials about pygtk ?
<ubuntujenkins> I do it all the ui in glade. bit of a cheat really
<Steve^> I really hoped this was a project to bring all the articles on blogs together
<Steve^> so they could be a proper, reliable resource
<dutchie> daker: http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html
<godbyk> Ah, I see.  Well, we're just starting out.  Our first project is the beginner's guide to Ubuntu.  As we get time, we'll look into writing other material as well.
 * ubuntujenkins bookmarks it i need to learn that stuff
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: have you looked at the latest ui ideas for quickshot?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: no, not really
<daker> dutchie, thanks
<dutchie> haven't been keeping up with quickshot
<Steve^> I've cancelled my download, left the mailing list
<dutchie> daker: np
<Steve^> bye guys
<dutchie> bye Steve^
<godbyk> Okay, the cable Internet tech is on his way, so my connection may drop out for a bit while he tests things.
<ubuntujenkins> ok dutchie if you get bored all thoughts are welcome
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: do you have a link to look over?
<ubuntujenkins> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
 * ubuntujenkins is bored rally should revise
<ubuntujenkins> *really
 * ubuntujenkins always misses a letter out some where
<ChrisWoollard> dutchie: That EtherPad looks really cool.
<dutchie> nowt to do with me
<dutchie> blame Daviey
<popey> #blamedaviey
<daker> ubuntujenkins, look at this http://itaka.jardinpresente.com.ar/
<popey> ubuntujenkins: will people be booting quickshot on real hardware or in a vm?
<ubuntujenkins> thanks daker looking now
<ubuntujenkins> popey: i think mostly on real hardware why?
<popey> if its a clean install from the cd and they have _not_ installed the nvidia driver then you can use xrandr to resize the screen
<ubuntujenkins> I know but people like me have the testing disto ages before its release. Also we aim to allow for other projects in the next release who may not need to do it on the latest release.
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for the thought popey :-)
<ubuntujenkins> daker: I can't find any proof its still going
<daker> what ?
<ubuntujenkins> http://itaka.jardinpresente.com.ar/
<ubuntujenkins> the link you gave me
<ubuntujenkins> looks cool though
<daker> it provide the server and the client in the same app
<ubuntujenkins> I am reading about it
<godbyk> Well, hopefully that'll fix my Internet woes.  We replaced a couple splitters (that didn't need to be splitters).
<ubuntujenkins> didn't they do that last time?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: <sigh> yeah.  but there were a couple that they missed.  (the previous techs didn't look in the attic.)
<godbyk> This guy actually tested the signal along the way instead of blindly crimping on new connectors.
<godbyk> We'll see if it holds up, though.
<ubuntujenkins> well lets hope that does it.
<daker> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> daker: pong
<daker> ubuntu-manual.org should point lp:ubuntu-manual-website
<daker> what do you think ?
<godbyk> Ooh.. are we ready?
<daker> i think
<godbyk> lp:ubuntu-manual-website is what test.ubuntu-manual.org points to currently, right?
<daker> yes
<daker> let it to another day :)
<daker> don't change anything oki ?
<godbyk> okay
<daker> brb
<godbyk> how is the download counter script coming along?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: with the release candidate, what branch was it built from? The images are not the same as the ones that are in lucid-e1 I put them in a while ago
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah, I know. that's my bad.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I branched from lucid-e1 a while back so I could move strings around and fiddle with some detailed latex stuff without pestering the translators.
<ubuntujenkins> no problem i thought i had put them in the wrong place.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I just merged in a lot of the .tex file changes manually, but forgot about the screenshots.
<godbyk> I'm going to do some more editing on it and pull in the screenshots and whatnot.
<ubuntujenkins> Thats fine. have you had time to switch the quickshot server?
<godbyk> then I'll email a copy of it to everyone for one final check before we publish the final version and book.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I wasn't sure if you were ready. One of your comments made me think I was to hold off.
<ubuntujenkins> It is ready, let me find the branch
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> yeah, just tell me what to point to and I'll set it up for ya.
<dutchie> ooh, rev 800
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/800 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 800
<dutchie> how exciting
<godbyk> :)
<ubuntujenkins> lp:quickshot/release and in the folder called 0.0.8 is the same stuff as the current branch
<godbyk> dutchie: One of the Romanian translators just yelled at me:
<godbyk> "I am writing to ask what have you done to the Romanian translation of the manual. The last time I worked on it we had almost 10% of it translated and now I see that most of the translations I made or approved are set to be approved again. There are only 8 days left and now someone has to start over."
<godbyk> dutchie: Can you help me see if I did something stupid or what's up?
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: can you set the bot to do quickshot revsions as well please maybe with qr100 or something
<dutchie> hmm
<ubuntujenkins> please
<ubuntujenkins> I could have a go but i don't know where to find the bot to update
<ubuntujenkins> or how to do it
<dutchie> you'd need bot access
<dutchie> which I have forgotten how to do
<dutchie> I'll sort this ro thing out first thoug
<dutchie> h
<ubuntujenkins> sure
<dutchie> godbyk: do you know which revision this was?
<godbyk> dutchie: He just emailed me an hour ago.
<dutchie> hmm, probably rev 797 then
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/797 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 797
<godbyk> If you look at the Romanian translation, it lists my name as the last person to edit the translation (on 2010-04-12).
<godbyk> I imagine that's why he's harping at me.
<godbyk> (Though I don't recall actually editing the Romanian translation, per se.)
<dutchie> is lp down for anyone else?
<godbyk> dutchie: just worked for me: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+lang/ro
<ubuntujenkins> the bzr link doesn't work
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: that's what I meant
<ubuntujenkins> the one the bot gave
<ubuntujenkins> the rest works
<ubuntujenkins> !enter | ubuntujenkins
<manualbot> ubuntujenkins, please see my private message
<godbyk> oh, you're right.. the bzr link there doesn't work
 * dutchie wishes lp would go faster
<godbyk> I have to go shopping for groceries and whatnot.  I'll be back in a couple hours, probably.
<ubuntujenkins> see ya
<godbyk> dutchie: if you figured out what (if anything) I've done to the (Romanian) translations and how I can fix it, let me know.
<c7p> hello
<ubuntujenkins> hello c7p, how are you
<c7p> fine ;) i'm looking forward to the final release of the manual and the translated one
<ubuntujenkins> that will be exciting, what language are you working on
<dutchie> these diffs are really quite inflated by po4a and lp fighting over po file format
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: greek
<ubuntujenkins> how is it going c7p ?
<c7p> well it's around 70% completed
<ubuntujenkins> nice :-) and not many screenshots to go.
<c7p> i will take them tomorrow if i remember to :p
<ubuntujenkins> hehe  I will aprove them as soon as i see them
<c7p> ok :D
<dutchie> godbyk: I can see no reason that the translations have disappeared. Nothing seems to have been deleted from the po file, but there is a huge diff due to LP and po4a disagreeing on how to format po files
<dutchie> I cannot believe I used to merge these files manually
<dutchie> godbyk: afaict, nothing was deleted between 796 and 797
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: what do other projects do for translations? ie non launchpad ones
<dutchie> have people use traditional po editors like emacs' po-mode
<dutchie> I think if we move away from LP, we move away from gettext
<ubuntujenkins> but that means that, muliple people can't work on it at the same time.
<ubuntujenkins> what is gettext I get cnfused
<dutchie> that's the main advantage of LP/rosetta
<dutchie> gettext is the program originally written to translate software applications that we've hijacked to translate the manual
<ubuntujenkins> I see.
<c7p> i think we should keep translation process as simple as possible and of course online
<ubuntujenkins> copy and paste the po in etherpad?
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> I'm too tired to make sensible suggestions
<ubuntujenkins> hehe silly ones are sometimes the best
 * dutchie is very close to writing a script to check for deleted translations
<dutchie> right, it's going on the todo list
<ubuntujenkins> do it, the translators would be pleased with any help in improving it
<dutchie> I will definitely do it at some point
<ubuntujenkins> \o/
<dutchie> but not now
<c7p> ubuntujenkins, the sentence "You can talk to people nearby by entering you information." is right? or the second 'you' should be 'your' ?
<dutchie> g22
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: it should be your please file a bug
<c7p> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/568098
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 568098 in ubuntu-manual "wrong word on string 836 " [Undecided,New]
<ubuntujenkins> thanks c7p
<c7p> no problem , part of my job :)
 * ubuntujenkins heads to bed
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-22
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<ubuntujenkins> and i am off to bed again
<ubuntujenkins> night
<ubuntujenkins> in a bit....
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: btw let me know when you want all of the screenshots ready for the release I will merge the translated ones into lp:ubuntu-manual-screenshots
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: cool.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Are the up-to-date, US English screenshots already in the the lucid-e1 branch?
<ubuntujenkins> erm i think there is one new one that i got today
<ubuntujenkins> ooo and i need to do one other. I will do it now brb
<godbyk> k
<ubuntujenkins> nice a bzr error
<ubuntujenkins> /home/luke-jennings/Projects/lucid-e1/screenshots/en/02-quickshot-home.png
<ubuntujenkins> Text conflict in po/pt.po
<ubuntujenkins> Conflict adding file po/pt.po.BASE.  Moved existing file to po/pt.po.BASE.moved.
<ubuntujenkins> Conflict adding file po/pt.po.OTHER.  Moved existing file to po/pt.po.OTHER.moved.
<ubuntujenkins> Conflict adding file po/pt.po.THIS.  Moved existing file to po/pt.po.THIS.moved.
<ubuntujenkins> 4 conflicts encountered.
<ubuntujenkins> ingore the image reference
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: fun.  run 'bzr resolve po' and then 'bzr revert po' and you should be fine.
<godbyk> (unless you're intentionally editing the pt.po file)
<ubuntujenkins> no I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. don't want to upset the translatore :P
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ha! I don't blame you.
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: did you get any blue print e0mails on the quickshot mailing list? I did not but then i did the blue prints
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I don't recall seeing any, but I may not be subscribed to them.
<godbyk> I'll look in just a sec..
<ubuntujenkins> the English screenshots in lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1 are good to go
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: awesome -- thanks!
<ubuntujenkins> I found the mailing list archive and there are no blue prints sent to the list. not sure why
<ubuntujenkins> found it you have to assign it to every blue print manually
<godbyk> hmm.. I wonder if you can assign it to receive all blueprint emails or something.
<godbyk> how does the ubuntu-manual project do it?
<ubuntujenkins> are it looks like they set the drafter to the team
<ubuntujenkins> right how do i unsubscribe the mailing list from blue prints.... I can only change my settings
<godbyk> heh.. no idea.
<godbyk> lemme see if I can find anything useful
<godbyk> I can subscribe the team to the Bugs.
<ubuntujenkins> #launchpad has no suggestions/reply's . I can subscribe and remove from bugs but can't remove them from blue prints
<godbyk> I'm apparently a team admin, too.
<godbyk> You'd think I'd be allowed to do that sort of thing.
<godbyk> (and maybe I am.. if only I could figure out where)
<ubuntujenkins> yep you, dutchie, ben and i are admins
<godbyk> s/maybe I am/maybe I can/
<ubuntujenkins> I think finding where is half of the problem
<ubuntujenkins> night
<humphreybc> ello
 * humphreybc just gave dutchie some work
<godbyk> humphreybc: what work did you dump on dutchie now?
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/gummi-with-ump
<humphreybc> godbyk, most of the blueprints for lucid-e2 and maverick should be up now. Have a look, see if you can spot anything I've missed. I'm slowly going through and adding specific work items for each one
<humphreybc> this cycle is going to be a lot more organized :)
<godbyk> nice
<godbyk> I'll take a look
<humphreybc> (presuming everyone does what they're supposed to!)
<godbyk> organization is usually a good thing.
<godbyk> and if someone doesn't do what they're supposed to, then we should be able to figure it out sooner this time. :)
<humphreybc> ya
<godbyk> humphreybc: do you know how we can set it up so that the quickshot blueprints get emailed to the quickshot-devs mailing list?
<humphreybc> so go through, make sure everything we want to achieve for lucid-e2 and maverick has stuff listed there
<humphreybc> Luke asked me about that
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins and I were trying to figure it out earlier and failed.
<humphreybc> and I have no idea
<humphreybc> ask in #launchpad
<godbyk> I think he did already and didn't get a reply.
<humphreybc> oh
<humphreybc> i'll ask tonight then
<godbyk> I'll leave it to him for now.
<humphreybc> lol ok
<humphreybc> so yeah, check to make sure everything's there
<humphreybc> there will be stuff we've talked about but i've forgotten
<godbyk> did you go through the list on the pad?
<godbyk> that might be a good starting point.
<humphreybc> the to do list?
<godbyk> yeah.
<godbyk> the huge todo list and the pad that you and I whipped up with notes for maverick and whatnot a while back.
<humphreybc> nope, but i'll have a look later
<humphreybc> i had a look at the maverick one
<godbyk> (those pad links should be in the email you sent me last week)
<humphreybc> but the to do list might be outdated
<humphreybc> a lot of it was stuff we had to do for this release, before we had a clue what our goals were for maverick
<humphreybc> here's my spec workload :P
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~humphreybc/+specworkload
 * humphreybc feels like he should be paid for this shit :P
<godbyk> humphreybc: can you run through the bugs and make sure they're all assigned to appropriate milestones/releases again? I think we've had a few new bugs recently.
<humphreybc> yeah, i'll have to do that later tonight
<humphreybc> if nisshh comes in, get him to do it (i've already told him about it and he's looking for stuff to do)
<godbyk> and has someone fixed up the bugs so that any bugs pre-RC have been retargeted?
<godbyk> cool
<humphreybc> i have to head into uni and do a lab, then i've got to get groceries and cook dinner
<humphreybc> I've got to run through like 6 python labs this weekend and submit them before I go to Belgium
 * humphreybc must remember he's also a full time uni student
 * humphreybc although sometimes forgets it
<godbyk> I just got back from my grocery shopping. :)
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> also, take a look at ump-persona, i've started creating "work items" on the whiteboard
<godbyk> I'm going to work on finishing all my edits to the lucid-1e-en branch so it's ready for print.
<humphreybc> should further break it down for people
<godbyk> I want to get it done in time to have all of you guys give it a glance and make sure I didn't do anything particularly stupid and glaringly obvious.
<humphreybc> basically, what most Canonical projects do is set up work items, as they're completed the assignee goes into the whiteboard and marks them as done
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> also, I need the stuff up on lulu.com by the 26th so I can buy a couple of copies and get them shipped to doctormo who's going to bring them to UDS for me
<godbyk> aha.  so they don't create a bug for each work assignment and link it to the blueprint?  they just edit the summary of the blueprint?
<humphreybc> they do both, if it's a bug, then they do that, if it's a feature that needs to be done, then they edit the whiteboard
<godbyk> humphreybc: I can probably have my part done.  We need to figure out what to put on the back cover of the book, though.
<humphreybc> we don't use the whiteboard enough
<humphreybc> okay, get in touch with thorwil asap
<godbyk> Get that info to thorwil so he can crank out a cover for us.
<humphreybc> he might be in later today
<humphreybc> he needs to know measurements
<godbyk> I'll get him the info I have re: covers when I see him.  But we need to figure out what goes on the back.
<humphreybc> right
<godbyk> He asked about it a couple days ago and I forgot.
<godbyk> Measurements I can do.
<humphreybc> i'll think about it while i'm at the supermarket
<godbyk> fair enough
<humphreybc> start an etherpad, jot down some ideas
<humphreybc> stuff that you've seen on other back covers for OS manuals
<godbyk> 'kay.
<humphreybc> if you can, find some images on google and link to them
<godbyk> I'll do that in a bit.
<godbyk> I'm going to do some more editing first.
<humphreybc> no rush, i'll be back in about 4 hours
<godbyk> and I'll probably update the translated builds, too.
<humphreybc> great
<godbyk> translators are getting antsy to see their work in progress.
<humphreybc> i would too if i were a translator :P
<godbyk> no doubt.
<humphreybc> chow!
<godbyk> see ya
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil.  I've sicced humphreybc on working on the content for the back cover.
<godbyk> thorwil: In the meantime, I have the dimensions for the wrap-around cover in case you want to get started:
<godbyk> Spine width: 27.89 Postscript points wide (0.387")
<godbyk> Cover size: 1269.89 x 810 Postscript points (17.637" x 11.250")
<godbyk> Spine begins: 621 Postscript points from the left (8.625")
<thorwil> godbyk: "sicced"? never saw that term before
<godbyk> thorwil: It's usually used to as "Sic 'em, boy!" to urge a dog to attack someone.
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> godbyk: should the cover parts be in one block, back-spine-front? or separate files?
<godbyk> It should be a single PDF.
<godbyk> Also, there's a bit of variance/fluctuation that occurs during the printing process,
<godbyk> so don't count on the spine being positioned more precisely than, say, 2-3 mm.
<godbyk> The cover size is slightly larger than the trim size (to allow for bleeds).
<thorwil> godbyk: they want that file trimmed to final dimensions, not with a larger media box (or whatever the right pdf term was)?
<thorwil> i mean, do they say anything about printing-to-the-edge?
<godbyk> thorwil: Let me look.
<godbyk> Here's a bit of info to keep in mind (tl;dr: keep it simple): https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?procId=672ff3fbe3e4b5399b74a54d59fecbf3&from=Browse_e32f82affe8d4b5f82825399a6f5fabd
<godbyk> Let me look into the printing-to-edge (bleed) specs.
<godbyk> Oh, and the cover will be printed in color (even though the interior is black and white).
<thorwil> don't worry, i don't use transparency or even just layered stuff
<godbyk> thorwil: Okay, the bleed area is the outer 0.125" of the cover.
<godbyk> So anything in that outer 1/8-inch area will be trimmed.
<thorwil> godbyk: that's 0.125" on each of left, right, top, bottom margin?
<godbyk> thorwil: Yes.  So 0.125" on the left will be removed, 0.125" on the right will be removed, same for top and bottom.
<thorwil> godbyk: ok, thanks
<godbyk> thorwil: don't include any crop marks or the like.
<thorwil> sheesh, that's obvious
<thorwil> ;)
<godbyk> thorwil: and make sure that all the important text and graphics are at least 0.25" inside the trimmed page (to allow for some variance in the trimming process)
<godbyk> thorwil: heh.. I know.. it's apparently non-obvious to a lot of lulu users, though.
<godbyk> tons of people appear to have problems keeping up with this sort of thing.
<godbyk> (I think they must have no idea how books are made.)
<thorwil> sure. not everyone has 3 years professional education in the DTP area
<godbyk> The cover width (and spine width) calculations are made assuming a 172-page book.  When I've finished tweaking some things, the page count may be slightly different, so the final dimensions may vary slightly -- but it'll only be by a few points.
<godbyk> thorwil: You have no idea how nice it is for me to be able to have someone as clueful as you working on this thing. :-)
<thorwil> godbyk: same :)
<thorwil> with slightly less than 10 mm of spine and up to 3.175 offset, i wonder if i should keep the title off the spine
<godbyk> Give me a moment and I'll take some pictures of the other book I published through lulu
<humphreybc> hey
<humphreybc> godbyk, thorwil, you guys talked about the back page yet? godbyk, have you got that pad?
<thorwil> hi humphreybc! yes
<godbyk> humphreybc: I haven't started the pad yet.
<humphreybc> okay, fill me in
<godbyk> humphreybc: I just gave thorwil the preliminary cover dimensions.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> let'
<humphreybc> let's figure out what to put on the back
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/CCWkwXmebw
<humphreybc> godbyk, i've added some stuff
<godbyk> 'kay, one sec.
<humphreybc> thorwil, are you happy designing a back cover? or do you want me to do it? (in photoshop :P )
<humphreybc> and how are we going to translate any text on the back cover?
<humphreybc> slash are we going to
<humphreybc> slash let's just not have that much text
<thorwil> humphreybc: i'll get to it soon
<humphreybc> cool :)
<humphreybc> thorwil, what's your day job?
<godbyk> Here are some (horrible, horrible) photos of the other book I published through lulu: http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/shu/
<godbyk> Taken with my cell phone in the dark.
<thorwil> humphreybc: really too bad i won't be at UDS. i could chain you to a chair and give you an intensive inkscape course!
 * godbyk would pay to see that!
<humphreybc> hahaha! that would be appreciated. You'll have to come to UDS-N
 * humphreybc envisions something like me going NO NO NO OOOOOOOOOOO!
<humphreybc> godbyk, "I wear socks three days a week." ???
<humphreybc> so what do you think we do, pick some quotes from the book?
<humphreybc> make up some reviews? :P
<godbyk> If you nab the PDF of the book from http://kevin.godby.org/ShinyHappyUsersWithCover.pdf, and look at the last page, it'll show you what we put on the back cover.
<godbyk> We just pulled quotes from the essays in the book and slapped 'em on the back cover.
<humphreybc> ah ok
 * thorwil tries to keep REM out of his head
<humphreybc> Losing My Religion?
<godbyk> Yeah, I think they selected a quote from a fake survey question I wrote or something.
<humphreybc> thorwil, what's your day job?
<humphreybc> also, thorwil, you should put your photo up on your Launchpad thing
<godbyk> Some of us are trying to maintain our secret identities, y'know..
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> is that why thorwil won't tell me what his day job is
<humphreybc> "Secret Agent"
<thorwil> humphreybc: theoretically i'm a freelance designer. practically i do way too much what i like instead of what i should
<humphreybc> (maybe he's in the Gestapo :O )
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> fair enough then :)
<godbyk> thorwil: there are 246 pages in those books, so the spine is a titch wider that ours will be.
 * humphreybc hates the gimp with a passion
<humphreybc> WHY CAN I NOT DO A SIMPLE THING LIKE SELECT SOME TEXT TO EDIT ON A TEXT LAYER
<thorwil> well, that's an upcoming feature, i think
<humphreybc> oh well that's okay then
<humphreybc> ..
<thorwil> and yes, gimp is a bit primitive compared to PS
<humphreybc> it's powerful, but the user interface sucks balls
<godbyk> I was just flipping through those books. It's been quite a while. I'd forgotten how gorgeous Palatino looks in print.
<humphreybc> now, if we could turn our attention to the etherpad
<humphreybc> i've added the text that should go on the back cover
<godbyk> okay, okay
<humphreybc> it's straight from the website, should be already translated
<humphreybc> then all we need is for dear thorwil to make it look pretty, consistent with the front cover and chuck in some nice graphics
<godbyk> humphreybc: Dude, apostrophe, c'mon.  (You know what I'm talking about!)  :-)
<humphreybc> also, i noticed in the latest build, (RC), the little wave circle of friends graphic down the bottom of the front page seems to be almost invisible
<humphreybc> is that just me, or have we made a decision somewhere along the line to turn the opacity WAY down?
<godbyk> The RC may or may not have been using the proper title page.
<godbyk> But the CoF band is supposed to be fairly subtle.
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> it's a bit too subtle right now
<humphreybc> on the version i have, at least
<godbyk> humphreybc: it'd be more awesome if you could collect some choice quotes from big names in the Ubuntu community praising our book.
<humphreybc> heh
<humphreybc> I can do that
<humphreybc> Mark just okayed us using the new Ubuntu logo on the back cover
<humphreybc> godbyk, I don't know if people will want to praise it until they've read it
<humphreybc> maybe for second edition?
<godbyk> humphreybc: they can read the RC.. it'll be the same text.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> alright i'll pick some people and email them
<godbyk> (I'm primarily just adjusting the alignment of the margin notes and fixing the occasional typographic error that I happen to notice.)
<humphreybc> direct download link for the RC?
<godbyk> nab it from launchpad or test.ubuntu-manual.org
<godbyk> front page. green download buttons.  can't miss 'em.
<godbyk> have they made any progress on the completion of the new Ubuntu typeface?
<humphreybc> is there a proper name for the small quotes of praise that go on books?
<humphreybc> recommendations?
<humphreybc> I've chosen the following people to have a preview and give us a "recommendation" quote thing: Mark Shuttleworth, Jono Bacon, Elizabeth Krumbach, Matthew Paul Thomas, Jorge Castro and Alan Pope.
<godbyk> They're called 'review quotes'.
<godbyk> The summary/description text is called a 'blurb'.
<thorwil> humphreybc: there will be no new ubuntu logo on the back. unless they manage to release a final SVG very soon. even then i might opt to not put it there
<humphreybc> thorwil: i'd really, really, really like a new ubuntu logo on the back.
<humphreybc> I can find an SVG of it for you
<thorwil> humphreybc: no, you can't. because there is no final official one
<godbyk> humphreybc: Also, if you're wanting to include the 'ubuntu' logogram, I think their font may clash with ours.  (We'd use theirs, but, well, they don't have one yet.)
<humphreybc> I want the new ubuntu logo on the back cover, in a corner
<thorwil> humphreybc: now you sound like an 8 year old
<humphreybc> :)
 * godbyk imagines humphreybc stomping his feet impetuously.
<humphreybc> this here
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=blackeubuntulogo.png
<humphreybc> well, whatever the final one of that looks like
<humphreybc> i'm enquiring about it now
<godbyk> have they even settled on a particular orange yet?
<humphreybc> I'm sure they have
<humphreybc> the final release is only a few days away
<godbyk> LOL.  I've lost all confidence that those alleged deadlines mean much.
<humphreybc> godbyk, could we get this manual published and in stores?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'll have to look into it, but my initial answer is 'sort of'.  I know we can get it on amazon.com and some other online stores.
<humphreybc> thorwil: "Ivanka and Iain say: It will be available by the time you wake up tomorrow, together with rules (layout etc) on how to use it"
<godbyk> The catch is that I think we have to purchase an ISBN for it if we want it to appear in the books-in-print catalogs.
<humphreybc> how much are ISBNs?
<thorwil> humphreybc: ok. bob knows others and myself asked often enough
<godbyk> humphreybc: https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?procId=b5fe6b18b566b8e230c0a7a221b701aa
<godbyk> humphreybc: Also, keep in mind that if you want to go that route, you'll need a new ISBN for each edition we publish.  (lucid-1e, lucid-2e, and maverick would each require separate ISBNs.)
<humphreybc> godbyk, okay, what do you think about having the second edition or maverick in stores?
<humphreybc> how much is an ISBN? that page just tells me how to get one, doesn't really give hard pricing
<humphreybc> thorwil: the SVG will be up on the artwork page of the wiki by the end of today (british time)
<godbyk> humphreybc: https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?id=2218eeddc6a4a0cb-7d829287-1266497a20e--7c60&fromProcRevs=273e6d745460e593f323693ed07c7501
<humphreybc> keep an eye on it, nab it as soon as it appears and incorporate it into your design :)
<humphreybc> thanks
<thorwil> hilarious to see a parallel discussion about the logo in ubuntu-artwork, where Iain provides less info
<humphreybc> godbyk, seems to be mainly online stuff still. The "ExtendedReach" thing looks good
<humphreybc> thorwil: is that going on right now? lol
<humphreybc> godbyk (mainly coz it's free)
<thorwil> humphreybc gets VIP treatment, apparently
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> A block of 10 ISBNs cost $245.00, 100 ISBNs cost $930, and 1000 ISBNs cost $1570.  A single ISBN costs $125.
<thorwil> ouch
<humphreybc> *sad face*
<thorwil> they are made of precious fairy dust?
<humphreybc> Can we convince some publisher to cover those costs for us if we give them the profits off the mark-up?
<godbyk> thorwil: if you run into any questions regarding the cover stuff, let me know and I'll try to dig up answers for you.
<thorwil> ok
<ubuntujenkins> moring all how goes thengs?
<ubuntujenkins> *things
<humphreybc> sup Luke
<humphreybc> not bad!
<humphreybc> doing some work, killing time till Joey comes online so we can record the OMG! Ubuntu! podcast
<ubuntujenkins> let me know when it is out
<humphreybc> next tuesday :)
<ubuntujenkins> do we have a feed yet? I want to get it as soon as possible :) Don't spend the whole show going ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual ubuntu manual :P
<humphreybc> hahaha, no i won't, when i'm working for OMG! i'm working for OMG!
<humphreybc> i'm not working for the UMP team :P
<humphreybc> we'll be posting it on the blog, check twitter and our facebook page. We haven't set up a feed yet but that'll happen this weekend probably
<humphreybc> it's called Ubuntuesday so it'll be released on tuesday
<ubuntujenkins> will it be weekly?
 * ubuntujenkins likes podcast
<humphreybc> yep
<ubuntujenkins> what time is the manual released again? I thought it was midnight utc but I don't think the website impiles that
<humphreybc> is it better for your eyes to have your monitor brightness turned down, or up?
<popey> depends on the ambient lighting
<humphreybc> tell me more, popey
 * humphreybc doesn't want to screw up his eyes
<popey> heh
<humphreybc> so i'm in a room during the day with tonnes of sunlight coming in, and at night (like now) i have a lamp near my desk shining onto my desk, and a light in the room on the roof turned on
<humphreybc> most of the time, my two monitors (laptop and external) are on full brightness. is it better to have my monitors turned down? the drapes closed during the day? the room lights off at night?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, hi
<ubuntujenkins> hello hemanth
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, didn't get any resource yestd
<ubuntujenkins> sorry what do you mean by resource?
<godbyk> humphreybc: you generally want to make sure there's no glare on the monitors (from the lamp or direct sunlight).  otherwise, the brightness should be reduced when there's less ambient light in the room.
<humphreybc> right, so less contrast?
<godbyk> humphreybc: The short answer is, do whatever feels most comfortable to you.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, those session save and logoff commands issue's generic solution
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: thats fine if we can work out the best way of detecting which desktop enviroment is in use. We can write a small file that handles it all, returning the right value to the "logout" button
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ok :) like a property file ?
<ubuntujenkins> more like if desktop enviroment is .... return <instert command> and test for each envoriment. for the ones that we can't find the command we can then change the window text to ask them to log out themselves
<hemanth> got it
<ubuntujenkins> cool
<humphreybc> turning down the brightness seems to help a bit
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: is it safe to start working on the quickshot branch?
<ubuntujenkins> sorry just excited about it all
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: aw, crap. give me just a couple minutes.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's the branch you want the site pointed at?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: lp:quickshot/release
<ubuntujenkins> the stuff in the 0.0.8 folder is the same as the stuff in lp:quickshot
<godbyk> 'kay. let me pull the branch.
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I am asigning you to solve bug 567714 if thats ok
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 567714 in quickshot "No response after login " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/567714
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sure :)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I don't know which hemanth you are there is about 15 people with the same name
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins,i said assigned it to me, its hemanth-hm
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: do you listen to Shot of Jaq or the ubuntu uk podcast?
<humphreybc> godbyk is high contrast good for the eye, or bad?
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: thanks i have asigned it to you now thanks
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: yes
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: okay. ours will be nothing like that
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ok np
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: what difference does that make? What about linux out laws do you listen to that
<hemanth> ubuntu-manual will be having a podcast ?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> hemanth: nah, omgubuntu.co.uk
 * hemanth excited :) 
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: check screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org real quick, but I think you should be set now.
<hemanth> oh! ok
 * hemanth likes omgubuntu :) 
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: appears to work here thanks
<humphreybc> if you want to get an idea about the podcast, the full title is: "The OMG! Ubuntu! Ubuntuesday podcast for people who don't like podcasts, brought to you by people who know nothing about podcasts."
<humphreybc> :P
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: 'kay, you should be set then.  I'll leave the release version as-is (i.e., I won't set a cron-job to auto-update it unless you tell me otherwise)
<hemanth> lol :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, do you have SSH access to your dreamhost server?
<popey> humphreybc: where you planning to host the mp3/ogg files?
<humphreybc> popey, absolutely no idea
<popey> whats the duration likely to be?
<humphreybc> no idea
<humphreybc> :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: yes, I do.
<humphreybc> anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour i think
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you do a cron job please in case we have to update the dictionary
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: do you know anything about the podcast :P
<humphreybc> We have a rough outline of what we're going to talk about for this episode, and that's it :P
<popey> careful not to ramble
<popey> snoooozecast
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sure.
<humphreybc> good advice
<ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
 * ubuntujenkins starts another e-mail to the quickshot list
<hemanth> humphreybc, ubuntujenkins  you are from omgubuntu?
<humphreybc> hemanth, ubuntujenkins isn't but I am
<godbyk> humphreybc: re: contrast. you just want to avoid eye strain. eye strain occurs when you're changing focus from something bright (e.g., computer monitor or tv) to something dark (surrounding room), or if you're straining to see what's on the monitor/tv when there's glare on the screen.
<hemanth> humphreybc, uber cool :)
<humphreybc> myself and Joey are the two people behind it at the moment, but it's mainly Joey
<godbyk> humphreybc: so, the tv/monitor brightness should be comparable to the ambient light in the room so you're pupils are going nuts. and avoid bright lights that cause glare on the screens.
<hemanth> humphreybc, kool, i too maintain a very trivial site called www.h3manth.com
<humphreybc> cool design!
<hemanth> humphreybc, thanks its on drupal planing to revamp to some css design
<hemanth> humphreybc, i'm following omgubuntu from a long time, the way the theme got changed was uber kool, the content is really awesome
<humphreybc> heh, thanks
<humphreybc> as I said, it's mainly Joey
<humphreybc> I do the weekly interviews and a few posts
<hemanth> ok :) his nick is d0od ?
<humphreybc> yup
<humphreybc> we've been meaning to make an "about the writers" page or something
<humphreybc> it's on the list
<humphreybc> complete with silly photos
<humphreybc> be back in a sec, going to le dairy for snacks
<hemanth> okies :)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: i don't know if you saw it in the mailing list but i think we will be using Epytext http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-epytext.html for all our code so that it is consistant
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i'm getting only bug reports and wishlist, did not get any other in the ml
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: hmm i sent it out yesterday 15.37
<ubuntujenkins> https://lists.launchpad.net/quickshotdevs/msg00146.html and https://lists.launchpad.net/quickshotdevs/msg00150.html were the two i sent yesterday, apart form all the blue prints
<hemanth> got it [Quickshotdevs] Standard docstring format
<ubuntujenkins> thats good.
<hemanth> and latex?
<ubuntujenkins> quickshot doesn't handle any latex at the moment, only the manual
<humphreybc> that's our thing :P
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how easy is the latex to html conversion?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good question. it varies based on the complexity of the document.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I haven't tried it with our doc yet.
<hemanth> i had used latex to make my resume once hehe
<ubuntujenkins> right, is it automated. We said quickshot would have online help but if we wrote it in latex we could convert it and have a pdf and online help
<humphreybc> hemanth: +1
<humphreybc> quickshot online help +1
<hemanth> humphreybc, i thought it was like insult to latex to make simple resumes out of it
 * humphreybc likes the fact the channel is busy again
<humphreybc> godbyk uses latex for his grocery list
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we still need more people for the project so if you have a chance to plug it <<cough>> . :p
<godbyk> heh.. nearly so.
<godbyk> I use it for any sort of 'word processing' stuff.
<hemanth> humphreybc, ha ha amazing :)
<hemanth> godbyk, :)
 * hemanth ps i love you ;)
<godbyk> lol
 * humphreybc is glad he's not the only one in our team getting love messages from people
 * godbyk blushes
 * ubuntujenkins causes more blue print mail
 * hemanth lol ps i love you, ps as in post script, not that novel or movie :P
 * ubuntujenkins we need more people to make a list on /me's
 * humphreybc is wondering why the team is farting around IRC when we're 7 days away from release
<humphreybc> :P
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i installed epydoc now trying out few examples
 * humphreybc is getting a beer
<humphreybc> ah, that's better
 * godbyk is heading to bed.
<godbyk> G'night, all!
<humphreybc> night
<humphreybc> thumper: maybe in your sprint you can tell me why launchpad is so god dang slow!!
 * humphreybc has 43,292 karma now lol
<semioticrobotic> 'morning everyone
<humphreybc> morning Bryan
<semioticrobotic> how are things, Benjamin?
<humphreybc> good good
<humphreybc> created a whole slew of new blueprints and whatnot
<semioticrobotic> ah, good good
<semioticrobotic> I'll look into it
<semioticrobotic> wow, you certainly did
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> see if you think anything's missing
<semioticrobotic> okay, having a look
<semioticrobotic> the style guide from godbyk is indispensable;  such a good idea
<semioticrobotic> is there a public link to the newest version?
<humphreybc> of the manual?
<semioticrobotic> of the style guide, sorry
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> work hasn't really started on a proper one
<semioticrobotic> really?  I thought I downloaded a LaTeX pdf of one a few weeks ago
<humphreybc> you did, but it's old
<semioticrobotic> ah
<semioticrobotic> lol
<semioticrobotic> okay
<humphreybc> not sure where it is
<semioticrobotic> just found a local copy ... yeah, it's a bit outdated (but still useful for the time being)
<ubuntujenkins> semioticrobotic: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf should be what you are after
<godbyk-android> The latest copy will always be at http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf (assuming I remember to upload it).
<godbyk-android> It doesn't get updated too often right now, though.
<semioticrobotic> thanks to you both
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: cool, I have to learn epydoc, I only started learning python since the quickshot project started
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: go to bed!
<semioticrobotic> and thanks for putting this together, godbyk-android
<ubuntujenkins> sorry hemanth ^^^ my last post
<semioticrobotic> okay ... just wanted to wish you all a good morning. I'm off to start the day at school.
<semioticrobotic> o/
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sorry didn't get u
<godbyk-android> I'm in bed, but then my name was invoked.
<ubuntujenkins> in resopnse to <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i installed epydoc now trying out few examples. my answer: cool, I have to learn epytext, I only started learning python since the quickshot
<ubuntujenkins> project started
<humphreybc> godbyk-android: go to sleep then!
<hemanth> o ok, epytext is kool especially symbols :)
<godbyk-android> Trying. Failing.
 * humphreybc wonders if he can hit 50,000 karma this year
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: are you an ubuntu-member?
<humphreybc> nope
<ubuntujenkins> are you going to apply. I want to some time just not sure how much work you need to have done
<humphreybc> i'll probably apply after lucid
<humphreybc> it's "sustained and visible contributions"
<ubuntujenkins> thats so unspecific, I might wait until quickshot 1.0 is near completed.
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> you'll be in a good position to apply nearer maverick
<humphreybc> i'll give you a good testimonial :)
<ubuntujenkins> thas what i figured, lots still to learn. thanks :)
<hemanth> humphreybc, Benjamin Humphrey ?
<humphreybc> hemanth: ya
 * hemanth deciphering nicks :)
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: why is your real name "purple"? I have seen so many people with that.
 * hemanth guesses humphreybc is on pidgin so its purple
<ubuntujenkins> can you not change it on pidgin? seams a strange thing to have as "purple" as the default
<hemanth> you can change it
<hemanth> Go to the Accounts menu. Select your IRC account and click Edit Account. Click the Advanced tab. Enter a name in the Real Name field.
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough i don't use pidgin.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, you on xchat?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<hemanth> me too :)
<ubuntujenkins> much nicer :)
<hemanth> yup
<humphreybc> does it say my real name now?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: no you are still purple
<vish> humphreybc: yup.. purple
<humphreybc> probably have to reconnect
 * ubuntujenkins wants a wepad sooo shiny
<hemanth> +1 to wepad :)
<ubuntujenkins> can you download the we pad os?
<humphreybc> naw
<humphreybc> it's still being heavily worked on
<ubuntujenkins> I would love to play with it and see what it looks like. Also to see how customisable it is
<hemanth> it will first hit the uk market i blv
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<ubuntujenkins> the uk gets something first for a change
<humphreybc> hey what about NZ
<humphreybc> we never ever ever get anything first
<ubuntujenkins> hehe this is great http://www.vim.org/images/vimassistant.gif
<ubuntujenkins> vim meets microsoft!?
<hemanth> ha ha :)
<ChrisWoollard> That is cool
<nisshh> what is cool?
<ubuntujenkins> possibly this nisshh http://www.vim.org/images/vimassistant.gif
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: ping, are you the person doing the screenshot/tutorial making program? Or am i getting muddled up?
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: no, I'm just "the" Finnish translator
<ubuntujenkins> ok sorry artnay, hows the translations going?
<artnay> unfortunately our LoCo didn't hop on the bandwagon and decided to continue to edit their own wiki manuals
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hehe, that is funny!
<ubuntujenkins> artnay: thats a shame
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: so not very well
<ubuntujenkins> keep at it artnay
<artnay> ubuntujenkins: I think the TeX syntax was too much for some people
<artnay> and some people saw confrontation between help.ubuntu.com and this project
<artnay> some even asked if this is "that non-free project"
<ubuntujenkins> not so good then hopefully they will see how good it is when the release comes out
<humphreybc> hmm
<artnay> yeah, I hope so too
<artnay> also there just wasn't enough time
<ubuntujenkins> there is more time for the translators next release
<humphreybc> yeah, a month more :)
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> we're trying to make it easier for translators
<artnay> humphreybc: good to hear
<nisshh> how many languages do you think we will have available for this release?
<ubuntujenkins> just looked at the translations artnay good progress
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: I guess 1-4
<humphreybc> nisshh: hard to say, for the actual day, maybe 3
<humphreybc> but in a couple of months we should have a dozen
<ubuntujenkins> german is done
<nisshh> humphreybc: wow, ok thats not very many
<humphreybc> really?
<artnay> I believe people will start translating after the release
<humphreybc> german is done?
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: 8 tranlsations for review and that is it https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<nisshh> i thought more would get finished by lucid release
<nisshh> but apparently not
<nisshh> looks like we might get a big flood of them for maverick though
<humphreybc> hopefully
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i have made a progress in fixing that bug :)
<artnay> btw, about the translations... website has some non-translatable sentences (for example "we have a version optimized for printing to save the trees")
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: the greman one still needs screenshots
<humphreybc> nisshh, get onto those german screenshots!
<nisshh> hmmmm, how many we need?
<humphreybc> artnay: yeah.. just use whatever you think suits in those instances
<humphreybc> nisshh: screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: good work, you can add it to lp:quickshot if you like. we all work on the same branch.
<artnay> humphreybc: but the thing that isn't in ubu-man-website-translations pots
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sure
<ubuntujenkins> hang on there should be some german screenshots
<artnay> I should take a good look at the site and report all those non-translatable lines
<humphreybc> okay
<nisshh> what is the german language code?
<ubuntujenkins> the greman screenshots are only 3 short my bad
<ubuntujenkins> de nisshh
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> it would be nice to get spanish finished
<humphreybc> those Galician guys are hardcore
<nisshh> everyone happy if i do a german one or two?
<humphreybc> nisshh: go for it
<ubuntujenkins> yes please galician is gl and spanish is es
<nisshh> right ill just get quickshot going then, be a little while
<humphreybc> what does my quit message say
<humphreybc> ?
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know you need to quit or us to see it :P
<humphreybc> enlighten me
<ubuntujenkins> * humphreybc (~benjamin@122-62-0-68.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has left #ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> * humphreybc (~benjamin@122-62-0-68.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) has joined #ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> is all we saw
<humphreybc> :(
<humphreybc> i always get quit messages
<humphreybc> (02:01:44) nisshh left the room (quit: Quit: quickshotting!).
<humphreybc> (02:05:13) ubuntujenkins left the room (quit: Quit: bye all).
<ubuntujenkins> I do it by typing /quit <message> on the freenode tab in xchat
<humphreybc> i see
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, as of now i'm checking the session and exec the required command for gnome shall i push?
<ubuntujenkins> please do
<hemanth> done
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: looks good when we start to add more enviroments can we move it to a different file. like writing out own module.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yes there a error in the file, fixing had commit the swp wrong file give me a min
<nisshh> omfg
<ubuntujenkins> ok I haven't run it so no problem
<ubuntujenkins> what nisshh
<nisshh> quickshot shut my computer down again
<nisshh> only managed to get one screenshot
<nisshh> this time it froze when i accidentally hit lock screen
<ubuntujenkins> hmm, I still don't know why it does it
<nisshh> then hung and shutdown
<nisshh> can someone else try to reploduce it?
<nisshh> then we will know for sure if its quickshot or me
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, done
<ubuntujenkins> are there any system logs that we can look at? I will see if i can reproduce it
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: ok
<nisshh> hmm let me see
<nisshh> i cant see anything unusual in my logs
<nisshh> quickshot authenticates fine
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, pygnome and pykde might provide lib's to save and logout checking it out
<nisshh> doesnt throw any errors
<hemanth> nisshh, if you try gnome-session-save --logout from terminal is it shutting down your machine?
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: does this effect you https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-April/030673.html ?
<nisshh> hemanth: i dont want to try that right now, id like to keep my machine running lol
<hemanth> ha ha :)
 * hemanth brb 
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: your problem is after the point that command is run
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: does quickshot run that command?
<nisshh> hemanth: no that xorg bug didnt get me, but it got humphreybc
<ubuntujenkins> yes nisshh when you click the logout button in quickshot in your normal user
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: that was me who poested the link :)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: woops, lol its late!
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i dont get it?
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: i don't either there is no reason why quickshot should cause it
<nisshh> so that command is called when i click logout in that menu?
<nisshh> but the freeze happens when i click lock screen!?
<nisshh> far out dude, this is just strange
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: that command isn't relevant but run gnome-session-save --logout-dialog just incase that will give you a log out window
<nisshh> i think if no one can reproduce this bug then it must just be me
<ubuntujenkins> rather than loging you out
<nisshh> ok hang on
<ubuntujenkins> it is a strange one I will think on it but i don't see how it is being caused
<nisshh> yea its strange because that freeze ONLY happens on my quickshot user
<nisshh> on my normal user it doesnt...
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: id leave it alone for now but if another user reports it then it needs investigating
<ubuntujenkins> can you delete the quickshot user and try again. and instead of running it from the icon do quickshot --debug > quickshotlog from the command line please
<ubuntujenkins> that will give us a debug file and we can work out at what pint it is failing
<nisshh> you want me to reproduce the bug that way?
<nisshh> ok hang on
<ubuntujenkins> if you can cause the bug again, that would be good thanks
<nisshh> meh, i could but its alot of mucking around
<nisshh> atleast 30 mins worth
<ubuntujenkins> ok don't worry. Are you using the cd? or lucid install?
<nisshh> lucid install
<nisshh> which could be why
<ubuntujenkins> very strange ok, I will shout at you if i hear of another problem like it.
<nisshh> ok cool
<nisshh> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> I think the cd is more likely to give errors as we have taken so much out
<ubuntujenkins> no problem thanks for reporting it
<nisshh> ye!
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i did get one screenshot uploaded, have you seen it?
<ubuntujenkins> i did nisshh its fine thanks
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> anyone here about the guy who got 50 years jail for guessing sarah palins yahoo password?
<ubuntujenkins> what!
<nisshh> no kidding ill find the link hang on
<nisshh> here: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jKaG9lu3DaZkgjDbJEwUUdTVPoAwD9F6L49O0
<nisshh> its freaking hilarious
<nisshh> they say he "hacked" her account but all he did was guess her weak password
<nisshh> tbh i think it serves her right for choosing such a weak password in the first place and then storing government info in the cloud!
<ubuntujenkins> granted he probably shouldn't have tried to guess it but it does seam an excessive charge
<nisshh> yea, you could say that!
<nisshh> humphreybc: is there a meeting this weekend?
<ubuntujenkins> oo if there is humphreybc i can't make it
<nisshh> meh, be the first one i 4 weeks that ill be able to get to
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, me on kde, now there is no error as expected, now looking for gdmflexiserver alternative in kde
<ubuntujenkins> ok sounds good. the gdmflexiserver allows us to switch users rather than log out. we had to make it development mode only as you can only haev one instance of nm-applet running.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ya saw noticed that options.development_mode
<humphreybc> no meeting this weekend
<ubuntujenkins> when testing from the banch you have to run quickly run  --devel as a flag otherwise it will not insert the branch in the user. also you haev to manualy launch quickshot using the same command in the quickshot folder in the home folder
 * ubuntujenkins should make that a wiki page
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: ok thanks
<humphreybc> wtf
<humphreybc> Google are just eating today
<humphreybc> and it's also "Take your child to work day" at their office
<humphreybc> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/eating-our-way-through-earth-day.html
<humphreybc> bloody Google, why are they so awesome
 * ubuntujenkins wants do do a compuer degree
<ubuntujenkins> and a typing one :)
 * hemanth wants sponsorship for his masters ;) 
<ubuntujenkins> don't we all
<hemanth> ha ha :)
<humphreybc> right, sleep time for me
<ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc o/
<humphreybc> g'night
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, can u re-share the etherpad liked we were editing yesterday please
<ubuntujenkins> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/qsdesktopenviroments
<hemanth> thanks :)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: whats up?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, fix committed :)
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, working fine with kde and gnome :)
<hemanth> Pushed up to revision 238.
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: thats great we still need to cover xfce at some point
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sure i can code that part but cant test it here :(
<ubuntujenkins> thats fine i can install it and find out
 * ubuntujenkins loves uni internet
<hemanth> okies :)
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, countdown_function is used for?
<dutchie> counting down?
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: when the resolution is changed the user has 15 seconds to click ok or they are logged out. Don't worry about changing that command as of yet as i am going to rewrite that. Hopefully reseting them to their orginal resolution instead
<ubuntujenkins> due to lack of time in the last release that was the best way of doing it
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, okies, asked cos that will bomb for non gnome
<hemanth> dutchie, yes line number 406
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: sure, i relised that's partly why i am rewriting it. also its a crude way of doing it the moment.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, o ok
<ubuntujenkins> its in one of the blue prints some where
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: nearly there
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, okies
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, after installed if you could confirm if xfce-session-save --logout is working or not i can just commit and push
<ubuntujenkins> I will comfirm it soon hemanth
<hemanth> thank you
<ubuntujenkins> can we cover lubuntu as well hemanth ?
<ubuntujenkins> (LDXE) baised
 * ubuntujenkins goes to try xfce
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, will check
<ubuntujenkins2> hemanth, what was the command again please
<ubuntujenkins2> I thought i got it right but aparently not
<hemanth>  xfce-session-save --logout
<ubuntujenkins2> it doesn't work. I wonder if i have installed enough
<hemanth>  xfce-session-save
<ubuntujenkins2> I have xfce4-session installed but nop variations on the command work
<hemanth> xfce-session-save i'm positive about that
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I have it sorted
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth: xfce4-session-logout --logout works
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, felt so when u abruptly went offline :) bravo
<hemanth> you still on xfce?
<ubuntujenkins> no but i can be what else wants testing
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, nothing its ok :)
<ubuntujenkins> :)
 * dutchie looks into gummi
<ubuntujenkins> thats a sweet a gummi bear
<dutchie> and pokes godbyk with the "use packaged latex" stick
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: http://gummi.midnightcoding.org/
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: i had seen that but forgotten
<dutchie> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/gummi-with-ump
<ubuntujenkins> nice, that looks an interesting task
<dutchie> "interesting"
<ubuntujenkins> no it does. quite a fun little task
<dutchie> yeah, probably
<hemanth> gummi :)
<hemanth> nice name, what it means?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, phew Pushed up to revision 239. xfce support up
<ubuntujenkins> thanks hemanth, have you looked at the ui design?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, looked a bit of it
<ubuntujenkins> any thoughts?
<hemanth> few points, can we speak tomo, its already tomo here ;)
<ubuntujenkins> ok sure thing I should be on some of tomorrow.
<hemanth> was quickly used for it?
<ubuntujenkins> we are a quickly project the ui is all done in glade.
<hemanth> ok, kool
<hemanth> cya then /me hits the bed
<ubuntujenkins> night hemanth o/
<hemanth> o/ Zzzz....
<epkugelmass> I'm beginning to go through the bugs and blueprints for l-e2, and i think we need more milestones
<dutchie> probably
 * ubuntujenkins adds more quickshot mile stones :)
<fenre> Is the term "Mac OS X" written in lower case for a reason?
<thorwil> godbyk: the back cover text is full of stuff than seems pretty worthless in that context. like no cost and dozens of languages. all in one file
<thorwil> godbyk: i'll drop the feature list entirely
<thorwil> and *surprise*, still no sign of the final logo
<godbyk> fenre: The "OS X" isn't in lowercase, it's in small-caps.
<dutchie> lo godbyk
<ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk o/
<godbyk> The same as GNOME, KDE, any other acronyms and initialisms.
<godbyk> Hey, guys.
<godbyk> How goes it?
<dutchie> not bad
<dutchie> been a tiring couple of days
<ubuntujenkins> not bad either
<godbyk> dutchie: I'd love to use the LaTeX packages, but I think they may still be too old.  (I haven't looked for a few weeks, though.)
<dutchie> godbyk: yeah, we're talking maverick though
<godbyk> Ah, gotcha.  We'll have to see what happens to the packages then.
<dutchie> could mean more of a pain for me if I'm packaging up gummi
<godbyk> Gotcha.
<dutchie> it's likely to be fairly heavily patched anyway
<godbyk> Are we going to fork it and make our own edit or what's the thinking?
<dutchie> not worth forking
<dutchie> just maintain a set of patches imo
<dutchie> have you seen the blueprint?
<godbyk> Kind of semantics at that point, isn't it? :)
<godbyk> I haven't looked at the blueprint yet.
<dutchie> well, suppose
<dutchie> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/gummi-with-ump/
<godbyk> Wow.
<dutchie> nice and ambitious from ben as always :)
<godbyk> I don't know what all features Gummi has already, but we're doing some semi-advanced stuff at the moment.
<godbyk> Makes it more fun. :)
<godbyk> Looking at this screenshot: http://gummi.midnightcoding.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/20091012-1large.png
<godbyk> most of those toolbar buttons could go. And we'd want to add a slew of our own.
<godbyk> It also needs to be able to run xelatex (instead of latex or pdflatex).
<godbyk> And it'll need to run xindy and makeglossaries, too.
<dutchie> it'd be easier/better to just call make
<godbyk> Well, sure. But I'm guessing it probably calls pdflatex and bibtex itself at the moment so it can snag the output and parse it.
<godbyk> does it have any sort of auto-completion/snippets/templates type thing?
<dutchie> no idea
<godbyk> The features page looks a bit bleak at the moment: http://gummi.midnightcoding.org/?page_id=2
<dutchie> wow, it compiles as you type
<dutchie> that could be fun to get working in a sane way
<godbyk> You might also take a look at TeXworks: http://tug.org/texworks/
<godbyk> TeXworks uses Qt, which may be anathema, though. :)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> could be an excuse to learn Qt
<godbyk> true.
<godbyk> one of the coolest features is that you can click on something in the pdf and it'll take you to the point in the code that generated that bit of text.
<ubuntujenkins> and if dutchie learns qt we can do a qt gui for quickshot :P
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: are you still awake?
<ubuntujenkins> !uptime
<manualbot> Factoid 'uptime' not found
<ubuntujenkins> !meeting
<manualbot> Team meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting - See Â« /msg ubottu logs Â» for transcripts.
<ubuntujenkins> !help
<manualbot> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<ubuntujenkins> !factoids
<manualbot> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-manual's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-23
<godbyk> If you look at the screenshots/en/03-window-buttons.png image, are those buttons in the correct order?
<godbyk> (I've lost track of what the final appearance should be!)
<humphreybc> final should be close, minimize, maximize
<godbyk> bug 561868
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 561868 in ubuntu-manual "wrong text" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561868
<godbyk> Aha! I'm not insane!
<godbyk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e/revision/766
<godbyk> (Though I may have my branches all messed up; it's hard to say.)
<godbyk> Could someone check their lucid-1e branch and see what this text says: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e/revision/766
<godbyk> brb
<godbyk> I'm back now.
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc
<godbyk> humphreybc: can you check your lucid-1e branch and see what the around-desktop.tex file says: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e/revision/766
<humphreybc> sure, in a sec
<godbyk> I'm snagging a fresh copy of the lucid-e1 branch.
<godbyk> I think for the second edition and maverick it might almost be best to create totally new branches and actually copy over what we want.
<humphreybc> yeaqh
<godbyk> that way there isn't this huge history filled with garbage (like the websites and other non-manual stuff)
<humphreybc> that's probably a good idea
<humphreybc> I'm looking at the around-desktop file
<humphreybc> what do you need to know?
<godbyk> the order of the window control buttons in the text.
<humphreybc> "TheÂ close,Â minimize,Â andÂ maximizeÂ buttonsÂ areÂ onÂ theÂ top-leftÂ cornerÂ ofÂ windows."
<humphreybc> that's highlighted in green
<godbyk> weird.
<godbyk> what's 'bzr info' say?
<humphreybc> oh wait
<humphreybc> I'm checking what it says in my local branch?
<humphreybc> should I pull?
<godbyk> yes and yes.
<godbyk> I'm trying to figure out why my local branch has old text that I fixed eons ago.
<humphreybc> okay, it may take ages to pull
<godbyk> 'kay.
<humphreybc> i'm just waiting for the rain to die away so i can go grocery shopping and get some food... didn't go yesterday
<godbyk> ah
<humphreybc> wow, bzr is going fast for a change
<godbyk> really?  mine was super-slow
<humphreybc> 12KB/s
<humphreybc> they're wrong in my branch
<humphreybc> rev 801
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/801 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 801
<humphreybc> right
<godbyk> <sigh>
<godbyk> great.
<humphreybc> rain's stopped, off to the supermarket
<godbyk> any idea where it disappeared to?
<godbyk> 'kay. see ya
<humphreybc> shouldn't the branch be lucid-e2?
<godbyk> I fixed it in e1 a couple weeks ago
<godbyk> now I'm worried the translators may be translating the wrong string or something.
<humphreybc> weird. So lucid-e1 is the branch for the 2nd edition?
<godbyk> too many branches and stuff. I'm all confused these days.
<godbyk> no, no.
<humphreybc> coz ubuntu-manual is the branch for the current release
<humphreybc> oh
<godbyk> lucid-e1 should be the branch for the first edition.
<humphreybc> ohhhhhh
<godbyk> lucid-e2 is the second edition
<godbyk> maverick is 10.10
<humphreybc> and what's ubuntu-manual?
<godbyk> frak if I know.
<humphreybc> sandpit?
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> it used to be set to lucid-e1, but I think someone changed it recently, maybe.
<godbyk> I don't really know.
<godbyk> bzr frightens and confuses me!
<humphreybc> me too!
<humphreybc> you'll work it out
<godbyk> I'm hoping someone else works it out for me. :-)
<godbyk> I don't want to have to figure out what's gone missing.
<godbyk> I'm tired.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> whinge whinge :P
<godbyk> I'm just trying to make it look pretty before it gets shipped off.
<godbyk> :)
<humphreybc> watch out or thorwil will come in here and accuse you of being an 8 year old
 * godbyk stomps his feet.
<humphreybc> bollocks it's started raining again
<humphreybc> why can no one make decent google chrome themes?
<godbyk> good question
<humphreybc> DOCKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy
<humphreybc> STOP CRASHING
<humphreybc> okay
 * humphreybc continues adding work items
<godbyk> stop making more work! :)
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> humphreybc: who's our bzr expert?
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> you? dutchie?
<humphreybc> what feedback do we want from the 1st edition?
<godbyk> not me. :)
<godbyk> I'm trying to track down where the changes I made (about the window controls) went.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> ask in #bzr
<humphreybc> ;)
<godbyk> I think it may be more of a launchpad thing.
<humphreybc> ask in #launchpad then :)
<godbyk> so when I run 'bzr branch lp:lucid-e1' it pulls from ubuntu-manual/main.  but that change was made in ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e.
<godbyk> I don't know what that means. :-/
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> do you think i've covered all the blueprints?
<godbyk> karma whore! :)
<humphreybc> hahaha
<humphreybc> nah but seriously, I need to make sure i've got everything so I can assign people and lay down the work items early, then everyone knows what's happening
<humphreybc> im giving thorwil some work, think he'll mind?
<godbyk> Depends on how busy he is and if it's under his purview.
<humphreybc> lol
<godbyk> brb.. need snackage
<humphreybc> you're american. what do twinkies taste like?
<godbyk> I'm back.
<godbyk> Wow. I haven't had a Twinkie in ages!
<godbyk> Well the cake bit is quite spongy. Kind of like angel food cake, but a lot more processed.
<godbyk> I'm not sure how to describe the taste. I haven't had one in years.
<humphreybc> heh
 * humphreybc is finding loads of work to make into blueprints
<humphreybc> this is cool
<humphreybc> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+assignments
<humphreybc> shows us how much work we have to do :P
<humphreybc> godbyk, where was that pad that I created yesterday, it had the stuff we were going to put on the back cover
<godbyk> humphreybc: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/CCWkwXmebw
<humphreybc> thankee :)
 * humphreybc might get that 50,000 karma in the next few days haha
<humphreybc> godbyk, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/back-cover-lucid
<godbyk> blueprints are way overrated, karma-wise.
<humphreybc> i know
<humphreybc> we should be using whiteboards on blueprints more often now, instead of etherpad
<humphreybc> then we won't lose all the pads
<humphreybc> or at least link to an etherpad in the whiteboard
<godbyk> probably
<godbyk> but the real-time collaboration is nice on the pads
<humphreybc> oh wtf
<humphreybc> https://launchpad.net/~pitti
<humphreybc> 106,000 karma
<humphreybc> wait
<godbyk> no, 1 million+ karma
<humphreybc> yeah
<humphreybc> wtf
<hemanth> zomg!
 * hemanth on fedora as no network on lucid after upgrade :( 
<godbyk> The vast majority of it is earned for Soyuz -- whatever that is.
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> secret Canonical moon base?
<godbyk> https://launchpad.net/soyuz
<humphreybc> ah ha
<humphreybc> should I assign dutchie to the custom bug reporting form?
<godbyk> either him or me, I s'pose.
<humphreybc> i stuck him
<humphreybc> he's only got 2 blueprints
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> we should have a bug reporting form online by the time we've released the manual.
<humphreybc> back
<humphreybc> godbyk, did you read jono's review quote?
<godbyk> nope
<godbyk> where's it at?
<humphreybc> it's on the pad or whiteboard for the back cover
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<godbyk> morning.
<godbyk> though it's closer to bedtime, for me. :)
<ubuntujenkins> hehe
<semioticrobotic> 'morning all
<ubuntujenkins> hello semioticrobotic
<semioticrobotic> how are things, ubuntujenkins?
<ubuntujenkins> good thanks semioticrobotic, you?
<ubuntujenkins> I have to run got to catch a bus bye all. sorry semioticrobotic o/
<thorwil> godbyk: is titlepage_letter_en.pdf in use?
<ubuntujenkins> helllo all
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, hi :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello hemanth
<hemanth> was reading the mail in the ml
<ubuntujenkins> sure, any thoughts?
<thorwil> godbyk: i messed up the generate-title-pages process somehow, while getting rid of a white fill in the pointer CoC cirlce and pointer are one shape, now)
<ubuntujenkins> hemanth, have you got time to go through your gui design thoughts?
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins,need to look in detail today didn't get much time :(
<ubuntujenkins> ok hemanth, if you don't mind poping it in an e-mail that would be good.
<hemanth> ubuntujenkins, sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<dutchie> o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie
<hemanth> \o
 * hemanth left handed hehe good night all 
<vish> thorwil: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/facebook.png    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1325768/twitter.png  for the website
<thorwil> vish: good work
<vish> :)
<vish> hmm , now where is daker ..
<thorwil> vish: email him, he seems to like graphics for the website as attachments
<vish> heh , i dont know his id ;)
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<ChrisWoollard> RE: line 482
<ChrisWoollard> It says that Yohoo is the default search engine
<ChrisWoollard> wasn't it changed back to Google?
<vish> godbyk: ^^
<dutchie> oh bloody hell
<vish> ah dutchie's here ;)
<dutchie> worth a freeze exception imo
<dutchie> should probably wait for someone else to check though
<ChrisWoollard> It is a pain
<dutchie> yeah :(
<ChrisWoollard> Anyway, i will log it as a bug
<ChrisWoollard> Ok, it is logged. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/569187
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 569187 in ubuntu-manual "yahoo mentioned instead of Google Search" [Critical,New]
<dutchie> great, thanks
<godbyk> hey, dutchie.. you still around?
<godbyk> Or anyone who knows anything about bzr/launchpad?
<godbyk> the google/yahoo text has been modified, but apparently in the wrong branch.
<godbyk> I could use some help trying to sort it all out.
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> rrrr/away
<dutchie> grr
<godbyk> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e/revision/766
<godbyk> that's one of the fixes I put in eons ago.
<godbyk> note that it's in ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e instead of ubuntu-manual/main.
<godbyk> how do we fix all that?
 * godbyk is frightened and confused!
<dutchie> hmm
 * dutchie investigates
 * godbyk feels better now that dutchie's on the case!
 * dutchie wonders why
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> something quite odd is going on in the branch and series
<godbyk> agreed.
<ChrisWoollard> What's that then?
<godbyk> but I'm fairly clueless about it all.
<ChrisWoollard> Have you checked the flux capacitor or the dilithium crystals ;)
<dutchie> I reckon we need to merge lucid-1e into main
<ChrisWoollard> Oh
<godbyk> See, I thought lucid-1e was main (or vice versa).
<godbyk> when I run 'bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e' it pulls /main
<dutchie> I think I will delete the lucid-1e branch after merging
<dutchie> to prevent such confusion
<godbyk> great.
<godbyk> after (careful) merging, we'll need to update the pot file, too.
<dutchie> oh bloody hell
<dutchie> 305 conflicts encountered.
<dutchie> :(
 * godbyk anticipates much harassment from translators.
<dutchie> stuff doing that
<godbyk> the only things we really need to merge are the .tex files.
<godbyk> the rest of it we don't care about
<ChrisWoollard> So what impact does it have on translations?
<godbyk> Well, the reason we need to merge is because I've updated some strings in the lucid-1e branch and those need merged into main.
<godbyk> (Strings like the default search engine (from Yahoo to Google), window control buttons position and order, etc.)
<dutchie> this would not be a problem if godbyk was working on the right branch
<dutchie> :P
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> I was! I was using lucid-1e.  It's the rest of the works using main that's the problem. ;-)
<godbyk> I'm not even sure how I got those files into the /lucid-1e area since I can't figure out how to download from there.
<godbyk> (When I pull lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e, it's pulling /main)
<dutchie> ITYM lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1
<dutchie> this is the source of the confusion
<godbyk> er, whatever. that was a stupid typo on my part way back when I was forced to set up the branches. :)
<godbyk> I think the branch was 1e and the series was e1 or vice versa.
<godbyk> they didn't align, in any case.
<godbyk> they really should be named lucid-1e and lucid-2e, if there's any simple way to correct that at this point.
<dutchie> doubt it
<dutchie> I think godbyk should stick to the latex
<godbyk> I'm also thinking that for e2 and maverick, it might be good to start with fresh branches (i.e., without bringing in the history and cruft of e1).  That way the branches can be a lot smaller.
 * godbyk agrees wholeheartedly!
<godbyk> (blame humphreybc.. he's the one who forced me to set those things up -- despite much protesting on my part!)  :-)
<dutchie> godbyk: which commits do you want from the doomed lucid-1e branch?
<godbyk> Oh, boy.  Lemme look.
<godbyk> dutchie: I think it's just r766 and r765 (from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e/changes/767?start_revid=767)
<dutchie> right
<dutchie> doing it
<godbyk> awesome
<godbyk> then you can hold my hand and tell me what I should be checking out/branching/pulling. :)
<dutchie> godbyk: right, pull lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1 (which points to lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main) and check that all the fixes you want are there
<godbyk> okay
<godbyk> I just discovered 'bzr viz' yesterday and it's awesome.
<godbyk> pulling. it's taking a while.
<dutchie> good old lp/bzr up to its usual performance
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I think that looks good now.
<dutchie> sure?
<godbyk> So I suppose next we'll need to update the pot file in that branch.
<dutchie> I'm going to delete the branch first
<dutchie> (if you're sure we've got all we need from it)
<godbyk> can I nab a copy of that branch first just in case?
<godbyk> (Though those are the only commits I saw in there since the branch was created)
<dutchie> sure
<godbyk> okay, I'm pulling the branch from ~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/lucid-1e right now.
<godbyk> (this could take a while!)
<godbyk> in the meantime, what do you think about culling all the cruft and establishing brand new branches for lucid-e2 and maverick?
<godbyk> (so we're not pulling 150+ MB)
<dutchie> maverick, maybe, lucid-e2, maybe not
<godbyk> k
<godbyk> I know there have been some commits to lucid-e2 already.  but surely maverick is still untouched, yes?
<dutchie> dunno
<dutchie> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/maverick
<dutchie> doesn't look to like it
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> because even though I deleted some files, you still have to pull the full history of those files, I think.
<godbyk> dutchie: okay, you can kill that branch now.
<dutchie> gone
<godbyk> I've made a copy of it on my computer called: ~/bzr/lucid-1e-die-die-die.
<godbyk> now we need to update the translations.
<dutchie> could you do it?
<godbyk> if you could do it in such a way that I don't receive hate mail from disgruntled Romanian translators, I'd be much obliged.
<dutchie> ah, nm
<godbyk> I could try, if you give me the command again.  It didn't work for me last time, though. (It only updated the po files, not the pot file.)
<dutchie> no worries, I'll do it
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> I'm assuming it requires some magic that I don't possess. :)
<dutchie> maybe
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: rofl
<dutchie> doesn't want to work for me now :(
<godbyk> \o/  it's not just me!
<dutchie> godbyk: can you try po4a --no-translations -v -MUTF-8 --package-version=`bzr revno` --copyright-holder="The Ubuntu Manual Team" --package-name=ubuntu-manual po4a.conf?
<godbyk> sure
<godbyk> it's currently updating the .po files and complaining about some spurious \r's.
<godbyk> and that's all it did.
<dutchie> :(
<godbyk> it didn't touch the pot file
 * dutchie takes a radical step and deletes the pot file
<dutchie> that didn't work :(
<godbyk> should we use po4a-gettextize?
 * godbyk is reading the man pages
<dutchie> shouldn't have to
<dutchie> do you want to ask in #po4a on oftc, seeing as I definitely should go to bed?
<godbyk> I can try.  Where's oftc?
<godbyk> ah, found it.
<godbyk> xchat had it in its list already
<godbyk> not sure if anyone's awake in that channel, but we'll see.
<dutchie> I'll leave it in your hands then
<godbyk> oh, yeah, brilliant idea. <smirk>
<dutchie> just try not to change the po files
<dutchie> if they don't change, we don't lose anything
<godbyk> Right. I can always revert the po files before I commit something.
<godbyk> I think mucking up the pot file is more dangerous, though. :)
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-24
<ChrisWoollard> According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors TexLive2009 in the packagetree is broken. Is this still the case?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I'm not sure; I haven't tried it in a while.  But we need the latest version of XeTeX and polyglossia.
<godbyk> You could try the packages if you like, but the safe bet is to install from upstream.
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. I will play tomorrow. My eyes want to give up. Sleeping time
<godbyk> I hear ya.  See ya later.
<ChrisWoollard> It is never good to work on translations while sleepy.
<thorwil> godbyk: hi! have to make sure ... the bleed for the lulu cover is inwards from the dimensions you gave me, right?
<godbyk-android> thorwil: yep
<thorwil> godbyk-android: good. had a chance to look into the generate-titlepages issue? i somehow broke that
<godbyk-android> oh, I thought you'd figured out the problem already. If you send me a short email describing the issue, I'll take a look at it when I wake up.
<daker> hello everybody
<dutchie> godbyk: ping
<dutchie> godbyk: actually, nm
<vish> hrm , looks like i missed daker again :s
<vish> humphreybc: heya , do you have access to the manual website? got the icons ready for facebook and twitter
<humphreybc> um
<humphreybc> not sure
<humphreybc> it depends whether he's using the main branch stil
<humphreybc> still*
<humphreybc> I have a feeling it might have moved to ubuntu-manual-website which I can't write to
<humphreybc> email them to him
<vish> humphreybc: whats his id?
<humphreybc> actually
<humphreybc> he only just turned up a couple of hours ago
<humphreybc> i'll see if he's on facebook
<vish> bah , i'll get him next time ;)
<humphreybc> his email is adnane002@gmail.com
<humphreybc> 5 days till release? eek
<humphreybc> i hope thorwil's cover design is nearing completion!
<dutchie> lo humphreybc
<thorwil> humphreybc: front and spine yes, backside not so much
<humphreybc> hi dutchie
<humphreybc> thorwil: okay, you've got another couple of days :P
<humphreybc> i'll keep pestering the design team, make sure you get the logo SVG asap
<ChrisWoollard> dutchie: did you get your branches sorted out in the end?
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> just battling with updating the pot file now
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. That is good (? pretending he understands what a pot file does).
<dutchie> the pot file is the template for the translations
<dutchie> so once it's updated, the strings godbyk changed about the search engine provider will be available to be translated
<ChrisWoollard> ahhhh. Translations i understand. I have done a lot of those. Hopefully they won't break
<dutchie> hopefully
<ChrisWoollard> Does that also mean I can keep translating or have to wait?
<dutchie> keep going
<dutchie> most strings will be unaffected
<ChrisWoollard> That is good. 626 of uk english left. I WILL finish it......
<dutchie> good man :)
<humphreybc> come on brits, you can do it
<ChrisWoollard> Yes, but it takes ages.
<ChrisWoollard> was there a tag along the lines of \ie
<dutchie> yes
<ChrisWoollard> good
<humphreybc> dutchie: "the strings godbyk changed about the search engine provider will be available to be translated" huh?
<dutchie> they will as soon as po4a sorts itself out
<humphreybc> oh right, google
<humphreybc> i see
<dutchie> shower time
<ubuntujenkins> hello
<ubuntujenkins> has anyone looked at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/569470 . its not a valid bug against the manual but what should it be reassigned to?
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 569470 in ubuntu-manual "can't install 10.04 release candidate on ASus k72F " [Undecided,New]
<ubuntujenkins> reassigned bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubiquity/+bug/569470
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 569470 in ubiquity "can't install 10.04 release candidate on ASus k72F " [Undecided,New]
<ubuntujenkins> bye all
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<IlyaHaykinson> if i bzr pull in a directory pulled from before the lucid-e1/lucid-e2 split, will i be on the lucid-e2 branch now? or still lucid-e1?
<IlyaHaykinson> and is there a way to find out?
<IlyaHaykinson> i can't seem to tell which branch i'm on
<dutchie> try bzr info
<IlyaHaykinson> push branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/
<dutchie> that's lucid-e1
<IlyaHaykinson> i thought the main branch is lucid-e2 now?
<dutchie> well, yes
<dutchie> it's complicated
<dutchie> and confusing
<IlyaHaykinson> ok. i'll take your word for it.
<IlyaHaykinson> we're still tweaking the website in the main branch though, right?
<IlyaHaykinson> i think we have a font issue.
<dutchie> I want the website out of the branch, personally
<IlyaHaykinson> agreed
<dutchie> I think it's being developed in the lp:ubuntu-manual-website branch now
<IlyaHaykinson> except that this is a closed branch...
<dutchie> a what?
<dutchie> you can't push?
<IlyaHaykinson> https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website
<IlyaHaykinson> "You cannot upload to this branch. Only Adnane Belmadiaf can upload to this branch."
<dutchie> well that needs fixing
<IlyaHaykinson> nod
<dutchie> poke daker when he comes online
<IlyaHaykinson> will do
<IlyaHaykinson> well, for now, i can just play locally
<IlyaHaykinson> *sigh* need to get apache+php running on this box though
<IlyaHaykinson> or how do all the cool kids host php now? nginx? lighthttpd?
<dutchie> I avoid PHP
<IlyaHaykinson> i haven't used it in at least 6 years
<IlyaHaykinson> before, though, it was seriously my language of choice
<IlyaHaykinson> well, web framework of choice at the very least.
<dutchie> django \o/
<IlyaHaykinson> meh. i tend to write on top of cherrypy or tornado directly, these days
<godbyk> I'm awake again.  (Boo!)
<godbyk> Hey, dutchie.  Any luck on the po4a front?
<dutchie> no :(
<godbyk> rats!
<dutchie> #po4a is about as useful as a chocolate teapot too
<godbyk> Yeah, I noticed that, too.
<godbyk> I think it's inhabited only by zombies.
<godbyk> They haven't said one word.
<dutchie> I have had answers from there before
<godbyk> (Not even braaaaaains!)
<dutchie> it's getting close to manually-editing-the-pot-file time
<godbyk> yuck.
<godbyk> I added a couple links to the bottom of http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPtranslations that point to some translation software that may or may not be useful.
<godbyk> (I haven't looked it much yet.)
<godbyk> ...If we end up having to side-step launchpad/rosetta at some point.
<IlyaHaykinson> there's always http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pootle
<godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Yeah, that's one of the links I put in, I think.
<dutchie> I don't think LP/Rosetta is the weak link
<godbyk> Where do you think the weak link is?  po4a?
<dutchie> gettext
<dutchie> po4a could be improved too
<dutchie> gettext is very good at doing software, but it's just not designed for doing docs
<godbyk> How are docs normally translated?
<godbyk> The translators are handed completed documentation to translate at once?
<dutchie> I think so
<dutchie> not done this much before though :Virtaal is built on the powerful API of the Translate Toolkit. âVirtaalâ is an Afrikaans play on words meaning âFor Languageâ, but also refers to translation.
<dutchie> hag
<dutchie> gah
<dutchie> I'm going to be
<dutchie> d
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> have pleasant dreams about translations.  discover an awesome solution. :-)
<dutchie> I'm in london for the national schools' challenge quiz finals tomorrow, so I won't be around
<godbyk> gotcha.  good luck!
<dutchie> thanks
<IlyaHaykinson> omg cufon makes things _so_ much more readable
<IlyaHaykinson> as does switching to having verdana be the primary font for the website
<IlyaHaykinson> it's night and day, on windows
<IlyaHaykinson> ok, actually, found the problem.
<IlyaHaykinson> between 6 and 11 pt sizes for Dejavu Sans Condensed, the font is broken on windows
<IlyaHaykinson> like, absolutely atrocious
<IlyaHaykinson> 5 pt or lower, and 12 pt and higher, it looks great.
<IlyaHaykinson> oops, i have my range incorrect
<IlyaHaykinson> 10pt - 17pt.
<IlyaHaykinson> though it's about the effective zoom range
<IlyaHaykinson> the solution is to switch to Dejavu Sans (non-condensed) which does not have this problem
<godbyk> What was the original font stack?
#ubuntu-manual 2010-04-25
<IlyaHaykinson> original font stack?
<IlyaHaykinson> dejavu sans condensed, sans, verdana, arial
<humphreybc> hi everyone, what's crackin?
<godbyk> Hey, humphreybc. not too much.
<godbyk> I'm trying to get the \screenshot command to remove a blank line it keeps inserting. (not sure why it's putting it there.)
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil.  What problems are you having with the title page script?
<thorwil> godbyk: as said in the email, it doesn't replace the titles of the generated SVGs anymore
<thorwil> so it remains "Getting Started ..." in all language versions
<godbyk> Ah, I'll look at it.
<godbyk> I didn't get an email from you, though.
 * godbyk checks his spam folder...
<godbyk> (I don't see anything in my spam folder, either.  Odd.)
<thorwil> godbyk: don't you use your at ubuntu-manual.org address?
<godbyk> thorwil: yeah, kevin@ubuntu-manual.org should forward to godbyk@gmail.com
<thorwil> godbyk: 2 emails got lost, then
<godbyk> great.
 * thorwil sends both again, to the other address
<godbyk> I got the ones you just sent.
<godbyk> Not sure what black hole the originals fell into.
 * thorwil sends Test email
<humphreybc> hi guyes
<humphreybc> guys, even
<godbyk> hey, humphreybc
<thorwil> hi humphreybc
<godbyk> thorwil: I found the problem.
<godbyk> The template SVGs that you modified are using the old-style figures instead of lining figures.
<godbyk> But the script runs the find/replace against the title string with lining figures.
<godbyk> let me test my theory real quick and then I'll commit the fix.
<thorwil> godbyk: if you replace the figures in the templates, copy them to have "en" version, first, please
<godbyk> thorwil: That fixed it.  I've pushed a fix.  I just updated the SVGs to use lining figures and the generator script works again.
<godbyk> The figures get replaced with old-style figures after the translation process, if that's what you're referring to.
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<godbyk> morning, ubuntujenkins
<thorwil> godbyk: ok, thanks. how do we handle the english version?
<humphreybc> ello
<thorwil> morning
<ubuntujenkins> hello humphreybc godbyk and thorwil lots of people here today :)
<humphreybc> lol yup
<godbyk> thorwil: currently, it looks like my LaTeX code look for a file named 'titlepage/titlepage-LANGCODE.pdf'
<godbyk> if it fails to find that, then it falls back on either titlepage/title_page_a4_en.pdf or title_page_letter_en.pdf (depending on the paper size/language).
<godbyk> If you want me to modify any of that code, just let me know.
<thorwil> godbyk: i see en_AU and en_GB, but no en_US. AU uses letter format?
<godbyk> I think that I have all the languages except US English set to use A4 paper, but let me double-check that.
<godbyk> That appears to be the case.. all use A4 except en (US)
<thorwil> godbyk: there a single pdf checked in: titlepage_letter_en.pdf. can i delete that one?
<godbyk> hmm.. strange.
<godbyk> I don't see any files named title_page_a4_en.pdf or title_page_letter_en.pdf.
<godbyk> did they ever exist?  or did I just make those up when I wrote this code?
<godbyk> thorwil: in any case, you can delete that file if you like.
<thorwil> godbyk: ugh. so maybe it isn't actually checked in. having so many ignore files in here confuses me
<godbyk> thorwil: if you you can provide me with a letter- and A4-sized English (US) version of the title page that I can have the code fall back on (when the translated version doesn't yet exist), that'd be good.  just let me know what the filenames are.
<thorwil> godbyk: can en_GB and en_AU be handled with a symlink?
<godbyk> thorwil: hmm.. probably.  though it might be a good idea to have pre-generated PDFs of those since they're rather hard-coded.
<thorwil> godbyk: actually, i'd like to have just "en" with A$ and "en_US" with letter, if you're ok with that
<ubuntujenkins> see you al later
<godbyk> thorwil: I'm not too picky. I just need to know which two PDFs (letter-size and A4-size) to fall back on when the translated copy doesn't exist.
<thorwil> godbyk: deleted that stray pdf, added en and en_US SVGs
<godbyk> cool.
<godbyk> I'll pull those and update my code.
<humphreybc> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2010/04/24/full-circle-podcast-5-manual-dexterity/
<humphreybc> Part 1 of my full circle magazine interview
<godbyk> I'm looking at the translations status.. when did Greek get so far ahead?
<godbyk> humphreybc: it's in multiple parts? how long did you carry on for? :)
<humphreybc> 40 minutes :)
 * godbyk skips ahead to humphreybc's interview to see what lies he's told
<humphreybc> woah, Greek and German are kicking ass!
<humphreybc> and Galician
<humphreybc> too bad Spanish probably won't be finished...
<humphreybc> godbyk: warning, my voice sounds a bit shit
<humphreybc> well, I reckon it does
<godbyk> lol.. everyone reckons that about their own voice.
<humphreybc> godbyk, how fast is the FCM podcast downloading for you?
<godbyk> it's done.
<godbyk> I just wgetted the ogg file.
<humphreybc> ah okay, so not their server
<humphreybc> it's my shitty internet
<godbyk> it downloaded at 945 KB/s
<nisshh> godbyk: what? that speed is insane!!!
<humphreybc> i know!!
<nisshh> hehe, i joined right when godbyk said that
<godbyk> My connection can go up to 10-12 Mbps, I think.
<nisshh> godbyk: you lucky bugger!
<humphreybc> i hate you
<nisshh> lol
<godbyk> and that's just the home speed. if I wanted to pay for the business speed, it'd be 30 Mbps, I think.
<nisshh> mine is only 1.5 Mbps
<humphreybc> nisshh: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2010/04/24/full-circle-podcast-5-manual-dexterity/
<nisshh> ooh, downloading that right now
<nisshh> humphreybc: your desktop screenshot on your blog is a bit plain
<nisshh> pretty stock ubuntu
<humphreybc> no it's not!
<humphreybc> it's not stock at all!
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> compared to mine it is
<humphreybc> buttons on the right, different theme, docky, no bottom panel, custom nautilus
<humphreybc> different mouse cursor... wallpaper... icons
<humphreybc> etc
<nisshh> ok ok, made your point
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> show us your desktop then
<humphreybc> !
<nisshh> ok hang on, im gonna go upload a pic to my photobucket
<hemanth> humphreybc, me also listening to fullcircle's podcast :)
 * humphreybc is scared now
<humphreybc> everyone listening to my damn interview
<humphreybc> that's only part 1! haha
<humphreybc> I think I gave them tonnes of content
<hemanth> they are still reading the news hehe
<humphreybc> my jokes didn't turn out as funny as they were supposed to be...
<humphreybc> and I do ramble a lot
<humphreybc> :D
<nisshh> switched to opendns today
<nisshh> WOW!
<humphreybc> hmm?
<nisshh> fast as hell
<hemanth> opendns hot dope :)
<nisshh> hemanth: hehe
<hemanth> nisshh, did u try google public dns ?
<nisshh> yes
<nisshh> was almost as fast
<nisshh> tiny bit slower
<nisshh> plus i dont trust google much
<humphreybc> what's all this?
<hemanth> roger dns's are becoming more
<hemanth> humphreybc, http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/
<humphreybc> so you change the setting on the router?
<humphreybc> man i ramble a lot
<humphreybc> note to self: don't ramble as much.
<humphreybc> let the other person talk... O.o
<hemanth> yup, the resolve conf
<nisshh> nah i just edited my eth0 connection
<hemanth> :)
<nisshh> easier
<hemanth> both will result in the same result
<nisshh> probably add it to my router too
<nisshh> hemanth: yea
<humphreybc> godbyk, are you listening to it now?
<godbyk> humphreybc: I'm listening to your interview right now, yeah.
 * hemanth lol mental mongoose 
<godbyk> (so I haven't been following this channel for the past few minutes. :-))
 * humphreybc bites nails
<humphreybc> does my voice sound weird?
<godbyk> I don't think so.
<hemanth> nope
<humphreybc> yay!
<hemanth> my dns benchmarking http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4603444&l=19e14a894e&id=630916001
<nisshh> http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/nisshh/?action=view&current=desktop-25-4-2010.png
<nisshh> thats my desktop as of right now
<humphreybc> elementary!
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> I'd use that theme IF the damn ubuntu icon wasn't changed to an e
<nisshh> found it on omgubuntu
<nisshh> humphreybc: lol, lame excuse
<humphreybc> haha
<nisshh> hehe, the fcm intro is silly
<humphreybc> I have to laugh at myself here, "Just have a little thing on the website that says... "would you like the manual?""
<humphreybc> YES OF COURSE ID LIKE THE MANUAL IVE COME TO THE DAMN WEBSITE
<nisshh> humphreybc: you realise you talk to yourself
<godbyk> humphreybc: we're you referring to the ubunbu.com site there, though?
<humphreybc> godbyk, oh I might have been, yes
<humphreybc> nisshh: yes yes, 80% of that is me actually talking too much, 20% of that is due to editing
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> I think Robin might have run some of my answers onto each other
<godbyk> so that was only the first half of your interview? there will be more in the next podcast?
<humphreybc> godbyk, yup
<humphreybc> what'd you think?
 * hemanth mononono 
<godbyk> not too bad.  though it always makes me cringe a bit when you toss out crazy goals. :)
<humphreybc> hahahaha
<humphreybc> just not too bad? Way to boost my ego a couple of hours before recording the first OMG! Ubuntu! podcast
<humphreybc> :P
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> the OMG! one should be a bit better, more even, rather than an interview
<nisshh> godbyk: did you have to ruin it i havent even got to the interview yet!
<humphreybc> nisshh: hahahaha
<godbyk> you shouldn't take offense. I'm one of those who marks the center bubbles in the Likert scales all the time. :)
<humphreybc> godbyk, feedback?
<nisshh> meh
<humphreybc> talk too much? mumble too much? too fast?
<nisshh> i was kidding
<humphreybc> what did you think of the mic quality?
<humphreybc> did you have to concentrate to understand any of it? Rewind because you missed something I said?
<godbyk> the mic quality was decent for the most part, though you might have breathed into it a few times. not sure if it was you or him or an artifact of the editing.
<humphreybc> that would have been me
<godbyk> it didn't sound like you were rambling (but editing may have saved you. ;-))
<humphreybc> I answered the questions in a fairly large amount of detail...
<godbyk> I only had to rewind when I was reading stuff in this channel and stopped listening for a moment.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> did I talk too fast? (kiwis are famous for talking too fast)
<nisshh> humphreybc: you sound nervous about feedback! :)
<godbyk> yeah, I think the level of detail was good.  not too nitty-gritty, but not fluff answers either.
<humphreybc> nisshh: haha, no, just trying to get as much feedback as I can
 * humphreybc hasn't done podcasts/radio interviews before
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> although I did do 6 years of public speaking training
<hemanth> humphreybc, not as fast as Ricky Ponting the cricketer ;)
 * humphreybc can act
<nisshh> ooohooh im up to your intervieqw
<humphreybc> ha
<nisshh> exciting!
<nisshh> meh "i sort of took on the role of team lead..."
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> it's the truth, isn't it?
<humphreybc> nobody appointed me team lead, it just... happened
<godbyk> Galician is pronounced /gÉ-lÄ­sh'Én/, though.
<nisshh> yea
<humphreybc> godbyk I know!! I kicked myself after that
<godbyk> I think that happens by default when you found a project. :)
<humphreybc> I knew I pronounced it wrong the second after I said it
<godbyk> ah, yeah, I hate that!
<humphreybc> and I also said "bounded around" instead of "bandied around"
<humphreybc> d'oh
<godbyk> yeah, I heard that too, but wasn't sure if it was a NZ thing or not.
<godbyk> Now all the Galician translators are going to just walk away. :)
<thorwil> ha, i can always only wonder if i don't mispronounce like half the english words on the rare cases i speak it
<godbyk> Heck, *I* probably mispronounce half the English words!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> godbyk, we can just pretend it's a NZ thing
<godbyk> English keeps you on your toes that way.
<humphreybc> anything I say wrong is now an NZ thing
<thorwil> in one case, skyping with an australian, it took minutes until i realized he was saying "name", because it did sound like "nime" to me
<godbyk> humphreybc: I won't tell if you don't.
<humphreybc> hahaha
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> thorwil, are you listening to the podcast?
<thorwil> humphreybc: nope :)
<humphreybc> ah, i wanted your feedback too
<humphreybc> :)
<humphreybc> (the more feedback I can get, the better I'll be)
<thorwil> well, here i think a little less attention might actually help you ;p
<nisshh> humphreybc: wow, you ramble on a bit
<humphreybc> thorwil: hahahaha
<humphreybc> nisshh: I told you !
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> I think that in all the online recordings of presentations I've given, I've had to speak very quickly due to extreme time constraints.  (Most of them were 5-minute presentations on semi-technical topics.)
<humphreybc> yeah, we were near the end of the interview and Robin was like "oh my, 30 minutes through already!"
<godbyk> humphreybc will be pausing after every sentence to do a self-critique during his next podcast now!
<humphreybc> the time just flew
<humphreybc> I think i'll get better very quickly, the OMG! podcast is weekly...
<godbyk> yeah, it doesn't take long to figure most of it out.
<godbyk> I hate listening to myself and realizing I have some phrases that I overuse.
<humphreybc> I hate listening to myself full stop
<godbyk> I'll still use them, but then I mentally berate myself as soon as it leaves my mouth.
<humphreybc> Joey's even worse, and he's got a journalism degree in broadcasting
<godbyk> oh yeah?
<humphreybc> yup
<thorwil> well, there are phrases that can become like, really annoying, if you know what i mean
<nisshh> humphreybc: for your next interview you should try to pick out some important points and not elaborate tooo much
<humphreybc> like, totally, thorwil
<godbyk> lol
<humphreybc> nisshh: noted
<thorwil> humphreybc: now imagine you were lady gaga ... couldn't turn on radio or tv anymore and would have to be careful on youtube!!
<godbyk> humphreybc: have you done the Ubuntu UK podcast yet?
<nisshh> will help you not ramble on so much
<humphreybc> godbyk, negative
<humphreybc> not sure when that's happening
<humphreybc> thorwil: hehe
<humphreybc> thorwil: I think Lady Gaga loves herself though
<godbyk> ah, sleep through the interview and now they refuse to talk to you, eh?
<humphreybc> godbyk pretty much :P
<humphreybc> I think I killed their schedule a bit
<humphreybc> whoops
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> the OMG! one will be a lot funnier than the interview
<humphreybc> well
<humphreybc> if i'm funny, at all
<nisshh> humphreybc: im part of the damn team and even i learnt a few things from the interview!
<humphreybc> Joey and I did a test run last week when we were planning it, talked for 3 hours
<hemanth> humphreybc, what's the agenda, for OMG podcast?
<humphreybc> hemanth: no idea
<humphreybc> we're going to be talking about lubuntu
<humphreybc> and that's pretty much all that's confirmed lol
<hemanth> :)
<popey> lubuntufail
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> lol the interview is funny
<popey> http://lubuntu.net/ -> get lubuntu -> takes you to a launchpad bzr repo
<humphreybc> lubuntu > xubuntu
<humphreybc> popey: okay now that's fail
<popey> how is that useful to anyone?
<humphreybc> that's not useful to anyone
<popey> the iso link is under "reporting bugs", not "download" or "get lubuntu"
<humphreybc> it's the opposite of useful... nonuseful
<godbyk> wow
<popey> and the url is broken
<popey> has a space on the end
<humphreybc> :(
<popey> double fail
<humphreybc> this makes me sad
<godbyk> I think we're already beyond 'double'
<popey> heh
<hemanth> is there any video on howto's for quickshot?
<popey> bit cheeky puttin the iso on people.ubuntu.com
<humphreybc> popey: ha! yeah, how much space have members got?
<humphreybc>  /bandwidth
<popey> dunno
<godbyk> hemanth: I'm not aware of any videos.
<nisshh> humphreybc: what? you didnt mentio me in the podcast!
<nisshh> so rude!
<humphreybc> hahaha
<hemanth> godbyk, i didn't find any either
<thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/fddac3455a98dbeffde57cd44c163543  http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c6f5e68cf890ce64ab1031400ae3a8af
 * godbyk got a mention. :-P
<humphreybc> nisshh: I did mention you actually
<nisshh> when?
<popey> 65% [========================>              ] 350,887,727 2.19M/s  eta 82s
<nisshh> near the end?
<popey> wheeeeeeeeeeee
<godbyk> nisshh: yeah, when he was rambling on about the style guide stuff.
<nisshh> hmmm must have missed it
<humphreybc> the bit about a team member saying they had lots of fun
<godbyk> hemanth: Do you have a specific question about Quickshot or are you just looking to get started?
<nisshh> oh, hehe
<humphreybc> I mis-pronounced beta, said "better" instead of "baiter"
<humphreybc> I didn't mention your name explicitly though!
<godbyk> popey: show-off!
<humphreybc> popey: what are you downloading?
<hemanth> godbyk, i have got started, just was asking for general information
<popey> lubuntu
<godbyk> humphreybc: You said 'Kevin'.  I heard it, damn it! :)
<popey> testing it with testdrive
<humphreybc> thorwil: what's with the wave thing?
<humphreybc> like the blue wave
<humphreybc> and where's the features list, review quotes and such? :P
<thorwil> humphreybc: the wave symbolizes a movement and passing on energy. the feature list doesn't make sense in that context. i have no review quotes. putting lots of stuff on the back will only make people not read it
<godbyk> humphreybc: I think the features list is probably not useful on the back cover, as by the time they're looking at the back cover, they have the book/PDF. (so they don't need to be convinced to buy it)
<humphreybc> okay okay
<nisshh> godbyk: your right he did say "Kevin"
<humphreybc> you'll get review quotes soon
<humphreybc> hopefully
<humphreybc> i like this one
<humphreybc> http://www.foopics.com/showfull/fddac3455a98dbeffde57cd44c163543
<humphreybc> not too fond of the other one
<godbyk> I like the wave-less one better, as well.  The wave just seems out of place.
<humphreybc> yeah
 * humphreybc is watching the Long Way Down
<thorwil> ok. there's a reason i made it an option. the safe route, then
<humphreybc> popey: did you get my review quotes email?
<nisshh> humphreybc: found my mention, right at the end!
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> shame you didnt say: nisshh was the most awesomenest author ever!
<humphreybc> haha
<popey> humphreybc: yes
<nisshh> humphreybc: your interview takes up most of the podcast, hehe!
<humphreybc> :)
<popey> and there's more in the next episode?
<humphreybc> popey: unfortunately, yes haha
<nisshh> lol
<humphreybc> big project
<popey> which is odd given he ended the interview in that ep
<humphreybc> what can I say
<humphreybc> yeah, not sure what's up there
<hemanth> "you have created a mammoth"
<nisshh> hemanth: a very pretty mammoth with shiny pdf pages!
<hemanth> nisshh, ha ha :) and it obeys us ;) [ edit, modify, share for free ]
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> humphreybc: i got my dad to read it last night
<nisshh> he said: "son, you know what?"
<nisshh> and i said: "what?"
<nisshh> and he said:
<nisshh> "im still not switching to ubuntu..."
<humphreybc> hahahahja
<nisshh> meh, and i said: "but dad! you get a shiny pdf as well!"
<nisshh> brb
<popey> ooo doc team meeting today at 19:00 UTC
<humphreybc> they'll just be discussing the change to mallard
<popey> nothing else on the agenda?
<humphreybc> not sure, haven't looked since last week when there was nothing
<ubuntujenkins> hello
<humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
<humphreybc> they've got nothing on the agenda apart from the old news of screencasts team up for adoption
<popey> oo
 * popey removes that
<humphreybc> so, to summarize, nothing new from the docs team
<popey> i thought you'd add some manual stuff to it
<popey> or are you leaving that till uds?
<humphreybc> leaving it till uds
<humphreybc> or after
<humphreybc> i'm still not convinced they actually want anything to do with us anyway
<humphreybc> but that's another topic entirely
<ubuntujenkins> anyone got any good quickshot logo ideas?
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: vish and thorwil are usually good with logos.
<ubuntujenkins> vish, and thorwil can you please have a think on a new logo for quickshot please. We need a new one as the current one is tied to ubuntu and we are aiming to be use able for all linux os's
<thorwil> ubuntujenkins: maybe. got my hands full, currently
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: you might have to wait a couple of weeks till after lucid, uds, etc
<ubuntujenkins> thorwil, thanks, there is no rush
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc, thanks fine
<ubuntujenkins> *thats
<ubuntujenkins> off to eat bye all o/
<vish> hmm , quickshot logo..
<vish> well , as humphreybc says UDS first! ;)
<hemanth> i invited few developers from Mozilla drumbeat team to ubuntu-manual :)
<ubuntujenkins> hello o/
<thorwil> grrr, evince doesn't like the lulu cover pdf
<thorwil> godbyk: i've run into problems with the manual logo. because it has gradients with transparency. made a version without, using white instead of zero alpha
<thorwil> godbyk: this improves things somewhat, but now evince renders this bullshit: http://www.foopics.com/show/af000c701a84784e41c77a3a1e2bb8f6
<thorwil> godbyk: never once had so much fun in my life before. replacing rectangles with new rectangles with the exact same dimensions improves the result, allthough the rendering is still not 100% correct
<thorwil> godbyk: initially looked like i solved it, but after putting it into place, i get: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/43c723efe0b1e02840ea15aff16ae4d2
<thorwil> vish: are you on lucid?
<vish> thorwil: yuppo
<thorwil> vish: could you please get the following file and save it to PDF, to the check if the UM logo renders correctly? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/t_w_%40freenet.de-20100425195620-55juwncktnqggdlg/title_page_lulu.svg-20100422133929-ohjthsse0k2r1txz-1/title_page_lulu.svg
<thorwil> vish: where correctly is notably different from http://www.foopics.com/showfull/43c723efe0b1e02840ea15aff16ae4d2
<thorwil> 2 hours lost because of this seemingly random bullshit export/rendering bug :<
<vish> thorwil: hmm , if i save to pdf the text is over the logo .. :s
<thorwil> vish: awesome, yet another variation of not what i see in inkscape
<thorwil> vish: ty
<vish> thorwil: and it seems the logo is having the same problem as the screenshot
<thorwil> vish: maybe i can be bothered to reduce this to something that can be filed as bug tomorrow. but it seems we have to give up on having the logo there
<thorwil> now i have the urge to destroy something
<vish> thorwil: the text overlap is solved by just moving the text higher... but logo is just as bad.. :s
<thorwil> a little more of this shit and i have to look into getting illustrator :/
<thorwil> good night!
<vish> i porbably dont have the text you used there , which might have caused the problem of overlap..
<vish> thorwil: have fun breaking stuff ;)
 * vish runs
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<dutchie> o/
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie , I have managed to package the manual
<dutchie> cool
<ubuntujenkins> do you have the needs packaging bug that you filled?
<dutchie> I didn't
<dutchie> how did you sort out the build-deps?
<ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins/+archive/ubuntu-manual is the ppa I just realised i for got to add evince as a dependancy. I just put the pdf in a package. wrote an exicutable that runs evince ....../ubuntumanual.pdf. And sort of used quickly to help
<ubuntujenkins> I used the command line application template. Added in the icon stuff by hand the icon is Applications > Accessories
<ubuntujenkins> you can also run ubuntu-manual on the command line to see it
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: lucid-e1 is broken I don't know how it generates the pdfs form the .png files. didn't want to mess it up.
<ubuntujenkins> night all o/
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-18
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, how may I take 01-ubuntu-login.png screenshot?
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: I'm not sure how we take that screenshot.  You'd have to ask jenkins or flan (the Quickshot guys).
<Andre_Gondim> nice, I will need to ask about root-directories.png too
<Andre_Gondim> 08-grub-boot-screen.png
<c7p> hey daker_
<CrustyBarnacle>  Getting the "TeX capacity exceeded, sorry" message over and over... just started. Any ideas?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-19
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I took some screenshot, may you confirm if is it ok?
#ubuntu-manual 2011-04-22
<issyl0> Hi all.
<issyl0> So all the files in the branch now are going to make the Maverick manual; we haven't started work on the Natty one yet?  Right...
<godbyk> issyl0: Right. I'll probably set up the natty repository this weekend.
<issyl0> godbyk: OK, cool.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-19
<CrustyBarnacle> pleia2: I missed the last meeting (I think)... Haven't seen any messages on how/who/when work is starting for Precise.
<CrustyBarnacle> pleia2: Any info?
<pleia2> CrustyBarnacle: oh no, not from me, I only lurk :)
<pleia2> looks like this is from the last meeting (on the 7th): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-04-07-17.09.html
<CrustyBarnacle> pleia2: Thanks!
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-21
<hannie> Good evening everyone
<pfjappaco-precis> Hello all
<c7p1> hello all
<KevQuirk> Hi everyone (I'm the newbie)
<unofficialresult> Hello!
<bsvelan_> Hi everyone
<hannie> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-3rdMeeting
<kereltis> hey guys :)
<c7p1> hey godbyk
<ajmontag> hello
<godbyk> Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late.
<hannie> no worries
* godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Meeting agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-3rdMeeting | Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Oneiric edition released! | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<godbyk> Are we expecting others or shall we get started?
<hannie> Chris is not here yet
<godbyk> Ah, 'kay.
<godbyk> I couldn't remember who all signed up.
<hannie> but you may start anyway
<godbyk> I'm glad to see so many people here!
<c7p1> me too :D
<godbyk> hannie: Okay.
<godbyk> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Apr 21 20:08:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<godbyk> #chair hannie
<meetingology> Current chairs: godbyk hannie
<godbyk> #chair c7p1
<meetingology> Current chairs: c7p1 godbyk hannie
<godbyk> The agenda for this meeting is available at <http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-3rdMeeting>.
<godbyk> I think that the meetingology bot will track the attendance for us (as long as everyone says something during the meeting).  If everyone could just say 'hi', that'd help.
<KevQuirk> hi
<pfjappaco-precis> hi
<ajmontag> hello
<bsvelan_> hi
<unofficialresult> Hi
<c7p1> hi
<hannie> hey
<kereltis> hi
<godbyk> Excellent! Thanks.
<godbyk> #topic "Job" openings for the 12.04 cycle
<godbyk> [TOPIC] "Job" openings for the 12.04 cycle
<c7p1> ok here you can see current job openings http://bit.ly/I0SAXe
<hannie> It looks neat
<c7p1> during this week we got some applications from new people
<kereltis> excellent
<c7p1> i marked new authors in the spreadsheet
<hannie> c7p1, I do not yet see Anthony Venable in the list
<c7p1> i can see some of the new contributors here too :)
<bsvelan_> i can work on listening to music section, if no one takes it up
<c7p1> me too, i've contacted him but i didn't get a response
<c7p1> i don't know why thogh
<c7p1> bsvelan_: good to know, if you can send a mail to the jobs mail to take you into account
<bsvelan_> okay
<c7p1> although anthony requested that section first, but will see, if he won't reply i guess you can take it
<c7p1> that's all for this topic
<bsvelan_> c7p1: no problem
<godbyk> #topic Meet the new authors and answer any questions they might have
<c7p1> let's meet new contributors :)
<godbyk> Who here is a new author?
<KevQuirk> Me :)
<godbyk> Hey, KevQuirk. Nice to meet you! Thanks for helping out.
<hannie> godbyk, may I suggest that all newcomers introduce themselves?
<godbyk> hannie: Good idea.
<KevQuirk> No problem godbyk, nice to be here!
<c7p1> and then we should do the same :)
<godbyk> Why don't we start with KevQuirk and then bsvelan_..
<godbyk> KevQuirk: Tell us a bit about yourself and what chapter/section you'll be writing.
<KevQuirk> Ok then, my name is Kev Quirk. I work in It professionally (for Hewlett Packard) and I have been working with linux and open source for around 6 years and obviously my distro of choice is Ubuntu.
<KevQuirk> I'm going to be writing on the Firefox & Getting Online sections of the manual.
<hannie> good choice ;)
<KevQuirk> Can't believe I landed those sections to be honest....I think they're going to be the fun ones.
<KevQuirk> I've also volunteered to help with the troubleshooting section should my help be needed.
<c7p1> very nice
<godbyk> Thanks, Kev.
<godbyk> bsvelan_: How about you?
<KevQuirk> There's isn't much else to say really, I'm a moderator on the Pinguy OS forums and I also maintain a blog and an online wiki.
<hannie> bsvelan_, is that Senthil?
<bsvelan_> Hi everyone...My name is Senthil Velan. I am doctor and a graduate student at UMD. I have been using Ubuntu for the last 3 years
<bsvelan_> Yes, it is
<bsvelan_> I worked on Microblogging last year.
<c7p1> yap
<godbyk> Great!
<godbyk> Do we have any other new authors or editors here today?
<hannie> is kereltis new?
<ajmontag> Yeah, I'm new as well
<godbyk> Ah, ajmontag. Go ahead.
<ajmontag> Hey Guys, I'm Andrew Montag and I'll be authoring the UbuntuOne section. I'm currently studying Computer Engineering at Iowa State University in the US.
<kereltis> nope, I did the email section the last time :0
<hannie> ok, sorry kereltis
<ajmontag> I have been using Ubuntu for two years now, and really enjoy it
<godbyk> Cool. Thanks, Andrew.
<ajmontag> I have considered a minor in technical writing, but I'd rather not pay the extra semesters, so I'm just contributing here instead!
<godbyk> Should we have introductions for all the non-new people, too or move on in the agenda?
<godbyk> ajmontag: Good choice. We're much cheaper!
<hannie> Is do not see che dean, he mailed he would be here
<hannie> *I
<c7p1> i think we should do the introductions
<KevQuirk> Personally I'd like to meet the rest of the team if thats ok?
<godbyk> Okay. Go ahead c7p1. Introduce yourself.
<godbyk> (We'll go alphabetically to make sure we don't miss anyone. :-))
<c7p1> ok, my name is John, i firstly contributed to the project as a translator for the Greek manual. I helped as author for the previous release and generally i try to help the project however i can
<c7p1> in the previous release* (a typo :D)
<c7p1> finished
<godbyk> hannie?
<hannie> ok
<hannie> My real name is Hannie. I have been using Ubuntu for about two years now.
<hannie> I started with Ubuntu Dutch Translators, of which I am the owner now.
<hannie> Apart from translating I also joined the manual because:
<hannie> I firmly believe in good documentation.
<hannie> First I translated most of the manual, Lucid Lynx
<hannie> then I joined the manual team, and worked on the previous version as author/editor and helping wherever I can
<godbyk> c7p1 and hannie both help out in a lot of different ways on the project: general proofreading/editing, helping new team members, assisting translators, etc.
<godbyk> kereltis?
<hannie> Finally I can say that working together on a project like this is very satisfying
<kereltis> My real name is Che, I worked on the Thunderbird section in the previous release.
<kereltis> I've been using Ubuntu for almost 3 years now.
<kereltis> And I just want to help out wherever I can. Good documentation is very important for new users.
<godbyk> Thanks, Che!
<godbyk> pfjappaco?
<pfjappaco> Ok
<pfjappaco> I have been using Ubuntu since my uncle introduced me to it about three years ago
<pfjappaco> my name is Paco
<pfjappaco> I worked on the Ubuntu Desktop section as an editor in the previous release
<pfjappaco> I like Linux, I like getting involved and helping out and this seemed the best way to do so
<pfjappaco> yep, that's it for me
<godbyk> Thanks, pfjappaco.
<godbyk> unofficialresult?
<hannie> pfjappaco, are you going to work on the desktop chapter again?
<unofficialresult> Hi my name is Brian and I did the Photo section last time
<pfjappaco> I can really help out wherever needed (but preferably as an editor again)
<unofficialresult> I've been using Ubuntu since 5.10
<godbyk> Thanks, unofficialresult.
<godbyk> Did I miss anyone else who's present?
<hannie> Maybe you should introduce yourself too, godbyk
<KevQuirk> Yourself? :D
<c7p1> :D
<godbyk> hannie: Oh, I s'pose!
<hannie> Before he introduces himself, for those who do not know it:
<hannie> We wouldn't be anywhere without kevin
<godbyk> My name is Kevin. I started the project to help out with the book design and the LaTeX code that you all suffer with. I've done some editing and helped out a bit here and there. I'm usually the last person who touches the manual before it's published (for better or worse).
<c7p1> you can call him super-Kevin, he does everything :D
<godbyk> Ha!
<bsvelan_> To be honest, I decided to help out after I saw the manual and the beautiful LaTeX formatting it had!
<bsvelan_> Good job, Kevin
<godbyk> Thanks, bsvelan_!
<godbyk> I think that covers everyone who's at this meeting.
<c7p1> me too
<godbyk> I'd like to thank our new authors and editors and especially thank our returning team members!
<kereltis> I'm trying to get my head around LaTeX at the moment lol :)
<godbyk> kereltis: Well if you run into any problems, feel free to yell at me. :)
<godbyk> #topic Establish deadlines for the 12.04 edition
<kereltis> Thanks, Kevin!
<godbyk> So deadline time!
<c7p1> yap also post mails to the list so other authors can see the answers
<godbyk> We need to establish a timeline for the release of the 12.04 edition.
<c7p1> for the new contributors, you can use the material that already exists
<kereltis> Yes, this one is important as it's the LTS release
<godbyk> There are a couple of ways we can do this: (1) set a final release date and work backwards, (2) set deadlines for each phase to find the final release date.
<hannie> But the step from oneiric to precise is not such a big one
<godbyk> hannie: At least not as big as the previous step!
<c7p1> i think (1) can work for us
<kereltis> hannie, that's the best part, we might be able to get it out faster
<c7p1> what do you think ?
<godbyk> c7p1: As long as we're not overly ambitious. :)
<KevQuirk> Tomorrow? lol
<c7p1> :P
<kereltis> lol
<pfjappaco> I think we should begin with the end in mind, so option 1 sounds good for me
<hannie> yes, we should be realistic. We do not even have authors for all chapters
<pfjappaco> but yes, keeping it reasonable haha
<kereltis> yeah, 1 is good
<godbyk> Any proposals for release dates, then?
<bsvelan_> working backwards would be the best way to go about it
<godbyk> Ubuntu 12.04 will be released this week.
<bsvelan_> June/July?
<hannie> How about a couple of weeks from now for the text
<ajmontag> How about August 1?
<pfjappaco> Mid-June?
<kereltis> July sounds good
<c7p1> mid June sounds good
<godbyk> Ha! We're kind of all over the place, aren't we?
<godbyk> Okay, let's assess the work we have to do and estimate how long it'll take to do each phase.
<godbyk> Do the authors have an idea of how long it'll take to update their chapters/sections?
<kereltis> Email just needs minor changes
<kereltis> Banshee will have to be replaced with Rythmbox
<c7p1> yap
<KevQuirk> I have no idea but I am happy to commit to whatever is needed to hit the deadline
<unofficialresult> I haven't installed the latest Ubuntu and Shotwell, but I imagine it will be minor changes as well
<hannie> I for myself want to start as soon as I have Precise installed. (I do not have the beta version)
<bsvelan_> I am guessing not much has changed with Microblogging though I am yet to try Precise.
<c7p1> kereltis:  we'll have to recover the material for the natty series
<KevQuirk> Me too hannie, I tend to not go for beta's...too buggy
<ajmontag> I have not began any comparison yet, so I am still in the dark as far as time goes
<pfjappaco> Precise beta is actually quite stable already
<c7p1> fair enough
<godbyk> It sounds like it'll take 2â4 weeks for the authors to finish their work depending on how much has changed.
<pfjappaco> We need to add in HUD usage
<godbyk> Any many of the authors won't know what's changed until they install 12.04 later this week.
<c7p1> yap, that goes to the first part of the Desktop chapter
<kereltis> I'm running it already, it's very stable
<hannie> And I would like to see something about Unity 2D and 3D
<godbyk> c7p1: We still need authors for the first part of that chapter, right?
<KevQuirk> We also need to take into account the quick release cycle of Firefox. There are rumours that the UI will be changing soon (new theme) and I've seen the V12 beta, there are some significant changes to v11
<c7p1> btw the new author of the Desktop chapter is writing his own manual for new users, he is a blogger
<pfjappaco> godbyk, I can definitely help out as an author if needed
<hannie> c7p1, and LibreOffice?
<godbyk> pfjappaco: Thanks.
<c7p1> LibreOffice section doesn't contain anything atm
<unofficialresult> Regarding the Firefox release cycle, can we include a URL in that section leading the reader to a maintained web page documenting any changes
<c7p1> it just a paragraph for each tool of the suite
<godbyk> Okay, so it sounds like we should give the authors a month to write or rewrite their sections. Does that sound good to everyone?
<c7p1> unofficialresult: that would help
<hannie> c7p1, ok, but who is taking care of that?
<bsvelan_> I think a month would be perfect.
<c7p1> nobody :)
<ajmontag> sounds reasonable
<hannie> and burning CD's?
<c7p1> anthony wanted to take it
<pfjappaco> A month will work
<c7p1> again nobody
<godbyk> Okay, so the first draft should be finished by the end of May.
<KevQuirk> I'd be happy to help out on other sections but I'd like to get a feel for the whole process first before I over commit
<c7p1> i'll maintain them if nobody takes them
<godbyk> Then we'll give the editors and authors two weeks to edit their sections, proofreading, fixing formatting, etc.?
<hannie> c7p1, great
<kereltis> That sounds good
<c7p1> godbyk: sound good
<ajmontag> agree
<KevQuirk> sounds good
<godbyk> Okay.
<hannie> Would it be possible to assign editors to chapters early?
<hannie> so they can form a team
<c7p1> btw, the author of the Hardware chapter told me that he would be able to contribute after 11 of May
<KevQuirk> I don't want to jump the gun but someone is going to have to take me through the admin process of actually submitting and managing sections.
<bsvelan_> I am not sure what exactly is the role of an editor? Can someone explain please?
<hannie> KevQuirk, you can ask for help when needed, also via the list
<godbyk> Then we'll take, let's say, a week to open it up to the public for proofreading and comments.  Half a week to incorporate any last-minute changes. And then we can publish it (which usually takes me a few days).  How's that sound?
<KevQuirk> Coolio
<hannie> bsvelan_, I think it is important that editors read the chapter and make corrections/suggestions if necessary
<c7p1> KevQuirk: we can discuss it at the end of the meeting. I'll send a mail to the list for this purpose, say it a FAQ for authors
<kereltis> godbyk, sounds good
<bsvelan_> hannie: thanks..i can help if you need someone
<hannie> godbyk, excellent
<KevQuirk> Ok, I don't know what you mean by 'the list' though.
<c7p1> sorry, i mean mailing list
<hannie> bsvelan_, we'll add you to the list of editors
<KevQuirk> Ahhhhh with you now
<KevQuirk> sorry
<bsvelan_> my pleaseure, hannie
<bsvelan_> *pleasure
<godbyk> Okay, how does this look for a release schedule?
<godbyk> May 31 â First draft completed: authors have updated and written new content; screenshots are in place.
<godbyk> June 15 â Editors have edited and proofread content.
<godbyk> June 22 â Release a draft for public comment and proofreading for one week.  Incorporate changes as they are suggested.
<godbyk> June 27 â Final draft is complete and all last-minute changes have been made.
<godbyk> June 30 -â The final PDF is released on our website and printed copies can be purchased via lulu.com.
<hannie> fine
<c7p1> good
<pfjappaco> Sounds great
<hannie> should we make an exception for the hardware chapte?
<KevQuirk> all good with me
<hannie> *chapter
<godbyk> hannie: What's going on with the hardware chapter?
<pfjappaco> One thing though, I will be unavailable the last one or two weeks of June, just so everybody knows
<c7p1> i'll contach the author to see if he needs a co-author or if he'll make it by his own
<hannie> he can only start on may 11
<godbyk> hannie: Ah, I see. We'll have to see how that goes, I guess. Hopefully we won't have to change much in that chapter. Or perhaps we can get a second author to assist?
<c7p1> yap, i'll talk with him and i'll inform you if we need a second author
<godbyk> I'll send this schedule to the mailing list for comments and objections before we finalize it.
<hannie> c7p1 will contact him about this
<godbyk> c7p1: Thanks.
<godbyk> Anything else we need to talk about re: the release schedule?
<hannie> godbyk, are you going to publish this timeline on LP?
<ajmontag> looks like a good set of goals
<unofficialresult> Sorry guys, I have to go. I'll be sure to read the logs to see the topics I have missed
<godbyk> hannie: I will once it's finalized (i.e., assuming there are no objections on the mailing list).
<godbyk> unofficialresult: Thanks for coming!
<hannie> unofficialresult, thank you for coming. Have a nice weekend
<kereltis> cya unofficialresult
<c7p1> see you Brian, thanks for coming
<godbyk> Okay, we'll move on to screenshots then.
<godbyk> #topic Screenshots
<unofficialresult> It was good to meet the new contributors and happy to see the returning guys
<godbyk> One of the problems that we encounter with screenshots is that we need them to be taken consistently using the proper resolution, color depth, file format, etc.
<bsvelan_> enjoy your weekend unofficialresult
<godbyk> We also need to handle screenshots for all of the translated editions.
<godbyk> Originally, we have a couple people write a program called Quickshot that helped immensely with this.
<godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot
<kereltis> would it be better to have a dedicated team for screenshots?
<hannie> could quickshot be updated?
<godbyk> Quickshot would walk you through the screenshot-taking process and ensure that everything was consistent and proper.
<godbyk> Unfortunately, our two Quickshot developers found themselves busy with college and other things and haven't been around for a while.
<hannie> godbyk, do you think we can ask them for help
<godbyk> So I guess the first question is: Do we think it's worthwhile trying to resurrect Quickshot?  (That is, find new developers for it.)
<godbyk> hannie: I can email them and ask.
<hannie> I mean help those who want to take over
<godbyk> hannie: I don't know of anyone who's expressed interest in taking over Quickshot yet.
<godbyk> Personally, I liked Quickshot and thought that it did a pretty good job. It could use a rewrite to make it run a bit more smoothly, but it made it easy for one or two people to take all the screenshots in a short period of time.
<hannie> ok, but before we find someone we need to know if the developers can help
<ajmontag> If we need Quickshot in a few weeks, it may not be good to ask them to revive it on such short notice
<godbyk> hannie: Right. But first we have to figure out if we want to bother with Quickshot at all or just take the screenshots manually as we have been for the past few releases.
<hannie> ajmontag, very true
<hannie> godbyk, yes, maybe that is better
<godbyk> ajmontag: Right. I don't think we'll have Quickshot working for us during this cycle. But we could get it running for the next cycle (12.10).
<godbyk> To be clear: Reviving Quickshot would be a 12.10 goal, but we'd need to get developers to start working on it soon.
<hannie> But authors still need good instructions on how to make the screenshots manually
<godbyk> hannie: For 12.04, yes.
<godbyk> Here, let's break it down into a few questions:
<ajmontag> well I have to leave, nice to meet you all!
<godbyk> 1. Do we want to try to revive Quickshot for 12.10?
<hannie> godbyk, is it possible to write instructions on the website?
<godbyk> ajmontag: Thanks for coming, ajmontag.
<c7p1> see you ajmontag thanks for coming
<hannie> thanks ajmontag have a good weekend
<kereltis> cya ajmontag
<hannie> godbyk, you can put that on the TODO list (quickshot for 12.10)
<godbyk> hannie: Okay, but if we do want to use Quickshot for 12.10, we need to start finding developers now instead of waiting until then.
<hannie> godbyk, any idea if it will be a lot of work to updat it?
<godbyk> As for screenshots for 12.04, it sounds like we need to write instructions on how to take them (resolution, color depth, file format, etc.) and how to crop them.
<c7p1> i agree
<godbyk> hannie: I'm not sure.
<godbyk> hannie: I expect so.
<c7p1> +1 godbyk
<bsvelan_> Alright people, I need to go. I will read the logs later.
<godbyk> hannie: I saw on the ubuntu-docs mailing list a while back that they were discussing translated screenshots, too. I think Quickshot could be quite useful to their team as well.
<godbyk> bsvelan_: Okay, thanks for coming!
<hannie> bsvelan_, see you, and thanks for coming
<bsvelan_> No problem, godbyk
<c7p1> thanks for coming bsvelan_ see you
<hannie> godbyk, yes that is interesting
<kereltis> cya bsvelan_
<bsvelan_> see you later, c7p1, hannie and kereltis
<pfjappaco> Sorry everybody, I have to go as well, keep me posted on how I can help out! Thanks again to all of you for all the great work you do
<godbyk> See you later, pfjappaco.
<c7p1> see you Paco :) thanks for coming
<kereltis> cya pfjappaco
<hannie> bye pfjappaco see you
<godbyk> hannie, c7p1: I can write instructions for taking the screenshots and post them to the website if you like.
<KevQuirk> I'll need to go soon guys. I've been on the launchpad site a subscribed to receive emails when bugs are logged. Does this mean I'm on the mailing list now?
<hannie> godbyk, that would be so good if you want to do that. Many, many thanks in advance
<godbyk> Initially, I think it'd be a good idea to have the authors to take the screenshots since they know what they want the screenshot to show. But if we need to have one or two people retake all the screenshots afterward to ensure they're consistent, then that's okay.
<c7p1> KevQuirk: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> KevQuirk: There's a mailing list that's separate from the bug list.
<hannie> KevQuirk, hope you enjoyed it. See you
<godbyk> KevQuirk: Look at the bottom left (I think).
<c7p1> there is a section Mailing list at the end of the page, with a subscribe button
<kereltis> cya KevQuirk
<c7p1> did i sent you wrong mail ?
<hannie> godbyk, agree with what you said about autors taking screenshots
<KevQuirk> I've done it now. Thanks
<hannie> godbyk, do you want me to write something about this on the list?
<godbyk> hannie: The meeting minutes?
<hannie> no, about authors taking their own screenshots and how to do it
<godbyk> hannie: Ah, that'd be a good idea.
<hannie> I will write about the first part and refer to the site for instructions, ok?
<KevQuirk> Right guys I'm off sorry. I'll email any more questions I have to the mailing list. Nice to meet you all gents.
<godbyk> The author's screenshots don't have to be the perfect size/format/etc. as long as we have one or two people who can take good screenshots later.
<godbyk> See you later, KevQuirk.
<hannie> KevQuirk, cya
<c7p1> cya KevQuirk
<hannie> ok, I am satisfied about the screenshot subject
<godbyk> Okay, it looks like that was the last item on the agenda.
<godbyk> Is there any other business?
<godbyk> #topic Any other business
<kereltis> don't think so
<hannie> I only want to ask something about the code after the meeting
<c7p1> after the meeting will have to talk about the tasks, i mean the mails to be sent to the list
<godbyk> Okay, if there's nothing else, then we'll adjourn.
<godbyk> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Apr 21 21:23:37 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-04-21-20.08.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-04-21-20.08.html
<godbyk> Thanks for coming everyone.
<godbyk> I'll post the minutes to the mailing list shortly.
<kereltis> Thanks guys
<c7p1> thank you
<hannie> thanks all of you
<c7p1> hannie, godbyk: we'll have to write a mail that will help the new authors understand what they are going to face, what we expect for them, how they will work etc
<godbyk> c7p1: Agreed.
<c7p1> do you have time to do it now ?
<kereltis> ok, I have to go, have a great weekend everyone :)
<hannie> c7p1 yes
<c7p1> have a great weekend Che, thanks for coming !
<godbyk> c7p1: Perhaps we should create a short 'getting started / welcome new author' PDF that explains everything and points them to various resources?  (similarly for editors and other job types)
<godbyk> c7p1: I have time now.
<hannie> bye kereltis
<c7p1> that would be ideal
<godbyk> Before I forget: hannie, thanks for all the edits to the website. I'll incorporate those changes today.
<godbyk> Should we start a pad and work on it there?
<hannie> more work for you, helas :(
<c7p1> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/WelcomeAuthors
<godbyk> c7p1: Always one step ahead of me! :)
<c7p1> hehe
<c7p1> i was playing with it before, as Kev asked some info
<hannie> c7p1, godbyk how about a shared document where we can write a mail together
<godbyk> We could also add all of this stuff to the style guide.
<hannie> aw, pad is fine too
<godbyk> When I originally wrote the style guide, I tried to have a chapter for authors, one for editors, one for translators, etc.
<c7p1> i've some material for the Editors of translated editions too
<godbyk> Most of the style guide so far is just LaTeX-related stuff, though. (It was based on a handout I created for one of those learning seminars we did eons ago.)
<c7p1> ok from where do we start ?
<godbyk> let's create an outline of everything they need to know. then we can start filling it in.
<hannie> Is it ok if I put some idea's that come to my mind on the pad WelcomeAuthors?
<godbyk> I think that the 'get involved' web page is probably a decent start.
<c7p1> nope
<godbyk> hannie: absolutely
<hannie> tomorrow (now is too late for me) The brain doesn't work that good anymore ;)
<godbyk> c7p1: ?
<c7p1> wot ?
<godbyk> c7p1: what was the 'nope' in reference to? :)
<c7p1> to hannie's question :)
<godbyk> c7p1: ha!
<hannie> lol
<c7p1> actually i meant the oposite but ok :P
<c7p1> nvm
<c7p1> sorry Hannie
<godbyk> c7p1: cheeky!
<hannie> ok, guys, that's it I think. Can I ask one very small question about LaTeX?
<benonsoftware> Was there just a meeting?
<godbyk> benonsoftware: Yep, you just missed it.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: It started 1.5 hours ago.
<godbyk> benonsoftware: I'll post the minutes to the mailing list in a bit. But you can read the logs if you like.
<benonsoftware> Ah, this is why I hate time zones
<benonsoftware> Okies
<c7p1> godbyk: could you update the website (with Hannie's corrections) and start from the updated webpage ?
<godbyk> benonsoftware: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/04/21/%23ubuntu-manual.html
<hannie> here it is almost midnight
<godbyk> c7p1: Yes.
<benonsoftware> Thanks
<c7p1> benonsoftware, if you want to ask something fire it away
<benonsoftware> Ok
<hannie> c7p1, godbyk I wish you a very nice weekend. Don't overdo it. Monday is a working day agian. See you.
<hannie> *again
<benonsoftware> Just wondering on the ML you guys were looking for someone to do the Glossary and Index, is that still open?
<hannie> benonsoftware, yes
<c7p1> see you hannie
<benonsoftware> I wouldn't mind doing that
<hannie> c7p1, thought you were gone. Will you anser benonsoftware please?
<c7p1> that's good
<c7p1> yap
<hannie> cya
<c7p1> do you want to be assigned to them ?
<benonsoftware> Yeah
<c7p1> ok good
<c7p1> benonsoftware:  you've contributed to the manual in the past, haven't you ?
<benonsoftware> Hmm, possible (/me needs to think about that)
<c7p1> i remember your nick
<benonsoftware> Ah
<c7p1> godbyk: are you there ?
<c7p1> i think i'll got to go !
<c7p1> see you all
#ubuntu-manual 2012-04-22
<sagaci> it looks like texlive in debian sid has been recently updated so hopefully in 12.10 we'll just be able to apt-get the packages
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-16
<hannie> hi CarstenG
<hannie> I have made 2 screenshots for chapter 7
<hannie> but I cannot make the grub screenshot
<hannie> because in VirtualBox pressing shift does not give me grub
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie
<CarstenG> You can make a screenshot of the whole VB window and crop this...
<hannie> CarstenG, the VB window does NOT show Grub when I press shift
<hannie> I only get Grub when I start Quantal
<CarstenG> Do you have a dual boot inside the VB?
<hannie> When I start Raring in VB it starts with the log in screen, shift doesn't do anything
<CarstenG> Otherwise you wont get GRUB
<hannie> ah, no dual boot in VB ):
<hannie> I would have to install another OS in VB, then?
<CarstenG> Well, I don't exactly understand what you mean with "pressing Shift"
<CarstenG> Is this a special key for GRUB?
<hannie> The manual says that you get Grub when you pres Shift at startup
<hannie> *press
<hannie> Hold on a second:
<CarstenG> Oh, I should read our manual more careful. :-)
<hannie> As the computer starts up, press Shift. Select the Recovery mode
<hannie> I did make the other 2 screenshots for chapter "Troubleshooting" and I will continue with other screenshots (not Grub)
<CarstenG> ok
<CarstenG> I will continue this evening with screenshots, too.
<hannie> good, I say Sylvie uploaded one recently
<hannie> *saw
<CarstenG> Yes, she is very active :-)
<hannie> I am currently doing a Python course (Codecademy), coding is fun, but not easy
<hannie> Working with dictionaries and list at the moment, so back to work now ;)
<CarstenG> cool concept :-)
<CarstenG> Had a short view to this site
<CarstenG> I get the result that my name has a length of 7 :-)
<hannie> It really works. Good concept indeed.
<hannie> You could not create an account?
<CarstenG> I only tried the demo on the page.
<CarstenG> "Type your name", and "calculate the length"...
<hannie> aha, I get it
<CarstenG> maybe I try it later...
<CarstenG> But now I have to leave.
<hannie> see you
<CarstenG> See you later.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-04-17
<CarstenG> Hi at all
<CarstenG> Someone there?
<cqfd93> hi, CarstenG!
<CarstenG> Hi Sylvie.
<CarstenG> I just do some screenshots for the Ubuntu One section.
<cqfd93> great!
<CarstenG> I have done figure 3.30 and 3.31.
<cqfd93> did you already push them?
<CarstenG> I used for this figures my own U1 account.
<CarstenG> No, not jet
<CarstenG> yet
<CarstenG> ... and I have German texts at the buttons...
<cqfd93> :-(
<CarstenG> Where you see "Next", "Back", and "Finish" in the quantal screenshot, I have German translation.
<cqfd93> It's
<cqfd93> oops!
<CarstenG> I have a pure raring installation on my old laptop there is no german langpack installed.
<CarstenG> I'm not sure, who or what tells U1 to use another language at these buttons....
<cqfd93> maybe you could cheat and edit the screenshots with The Gimp?
<CarstenG> strange.
<CarstenG> Well, I could try it.
<cqfd93> you said you used your U1 account, this is probably the reason
<CarstenG> Maybe.
<CarstenG> But I see no language setting in the account.
<CarstenG> Do you have an U1 account?
<cqfd93> yes
<CarstenG> So it would be cool if you could try it with your account
<CarstenG> if you get there French translation, we may have found a bug...
<cqfd93> I could give it a try, but on the virtual machine it will probably be very slow
<cqfd93> what are the complete names of 3.30 and 3.31?
<CarstenG> 03-U1-setup-sync.png and 03-U1-setup-sync-select-empty.png
<CarstenG> ok, some are uploaded to rev 170
<manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring/revision/170 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/raring -r 170
<CarstenG> (no, not these we are talking about)
<cqfd93> ok
<CarstenG> are you familiar with GIMP?
<CarstenG> Then maybe I could send you the German version and you cheat them?
<cqfd93> I'm familiar with Gimp, I've been using it a lot for cropping screenshots and... cheating :-)
<cqfd93> do you want to email me your screenshots?
<CarstenG> yes, or do you want to try it first with your own account?
<CarstenG> ... to make them again?
<cqfd93> it may be easier to try using yours first
<CarstenG> ok
<CarstenG> one moment..
<CarstenG> ... and sent.
<cqfd93> ok
<cqfd93> just got your email, thank you
<CarstenG> thank you!
<cqfd93> I guess ZurÃ¼ck and Abschliessen mean back and finish?
<cqfd93> And Weiter is next?
<CarstenG> Yes
<CarstenG> right.
<cqfd93> OK
<cqfd93> Now tu cheat :-)
<cqfd93> Back in a moment
<CarstenG> nice :-)
<cqfd93> Done! Check out your email
<CarstenG> Great!
<CarstenG> Thanks a lot.
<cqfd93> you're welcome!
<CarstenG> Ok, 3 screenshot for U1 left...
<cqfd93> good!
<CarstenG> ok, done.
<CarstenG> Some days ago you mentioned the "Additional Drivers" screenshot. You had only the hardware from the VM.
<cqfd93> Right
<CarstenG> Should I update this with my hardware? I have a proprietary software modem in my laptop, which is mentioned in this tab.
<cqfd93> oh yes, it would be much better. Go ahead!
<CarstenG> ok, done.
<CarstenG> So, we have now only 2 screenshots left for the chatting...
<CarstenG> I thought, Mehmet Kani would update these with the right theme...
<CarstenG> But well, it's time for bed now...
<CarstenG> see you tomorrow.
<cqfd93> Good night!
#ubuntu-manual 2014-04-16
<CrazyLemon> hey guys
<CrazyLemon> i noticed a 'bug' in ubuntu manual https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/trusty/+pots/ubuntu-manual/sl/1250/+translate
<CrazyLemon> it should probably say '14.04' there instead of '13.10'
<CrazyLemon> and i dont think its an applet.. its a keyboard indicator
