#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-08
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> seb128: I think I'll unmilestone bug #141160: it's quite cosmetic and someone commented that this is being worked on upstream
<seb128> bug #141160
<seb128> hum, no bot on this chan?
<StevenK> Only ubuntulog
<seb128> lool: that's rather one for #ubuntu-desktop, and ok, I milestoned because that looked like an easy way to win some ram usage on the CD
<lool> seb128: Uh yeah, I wanted to comment on ubuntu-desktop, let me grab my coffee
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.bugsnarfer True
<ubotu> OK
<Seveas> mdz, tfheen, davidm: poke
<mdz> <seb128> bug #141160
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141160 in vino "When remote desktop access is disabled, vino-session will still run" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141160
<mdz> Seveas: thanks
<seb128> mdz, Seveas: thanks
<Seveas> de nada
<Mithrandir> Seveas: thanks.
<chrissturm> hey, will there be more ubuntu-mobile compatible hardware when gutsy is released?
<agoliveira> chrissturm: Hello. Well, it deppends. The main focus is on LPIA platforms but it should be not a big problem to put it on other x86 compatible hardware with the appropriate kernel.
<bspencer> hi agoliveira  :)
<agoliveira> bspencer: Just to contradict me :)
<agoliveira> Looks like the manual configuration of the network is not working anymore on the latest UME image. Does anyone knows about it?
<agoliveira> If you click on the applet all I see is the label "Manual Configuration" and when clicked, nothing happens.
<agoliveira> Hmmm... looks like the network manager itself is not installed. Isn't this supposed to be that way, is it?
<bspencer> agoliveira, while you're here... let's chat about calc
<agoliveira> bspencer: Sure
<bspencer> you did some magic to galculator
<bspencer> if we want to update that, do we send you patches?
<bspencer> or make changes directly to the launchpad repo?
<bspencer> I'm guessing that you aren't intimately tied to the app
<bspencer> one thing we started looking at was trying to make all the menus of the small applications somewhat consistent
<bspencer> e.g.  File, Edit, View...  About, Quit
<bspencer> no help support
<bspencer> calc, notes, email, chat, media  are the ones we looked at
<bspencer> and we also are going through the above to ensure that only 1 copy gets started.  osso-initialize, bring window to top, etc.
<agoliveira> bspencer: The application is already on the repo so you should go via the sponsorship process
<bspencer> sounds like a good long-term plan
<bspencer> but this week, before gutsy, we hope to make changes
<bspencer> in the next 2 days
<bspencer> I can try and push them up via HappyCamp 
<bspencer> HappyCamp keeps asking me why we have "moblin-calc"  :)   I say, "cause it's soo cool"
<agoliveira> Well, that's the usual process. You can send the patches to me but I'll have to tidy it up and go over the sponsorship anyway so we will have 2x the same work.
<bspencer> HappyCamp, if I feed you patches for galculator and email, can you get these pushed up?
<agoliveira> bspencer: I can help you with that too, no problem.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Actually, I'll probably be able to do it faster for galculator, for instance as I have a bit of experience with it.
<bspencer> agoliveira, who is the MOTU that makes the changes?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Anyone who have upload rights. Tollef can help there too.
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, do you have upload rights for galculator?
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: No, I don't.
<HappyCamp> :(
<bspencer> aha!  there's the rub.
<agoliveira> I'm not MOTU (yet) :)
<bspencer> that's where I misunderstood :P
<HappyCamp> Okay.  So bspencer what we need to do is see how big your changes are to the current galculator.
<bspencer> so we depend on asac and Mithrandir.  And mjg59 has been helping too
<HappyCamp> We do NOT want to rename it to moblin-calc, I would think.
<bspencer> HappyCamp, menus and about 15lines of code
<HappyCamp> bspencer, dholbach can help too.
<rustyl> can somebody point me to the standard blueprint template URL... i'm having a hard time finding it again
<agoliveira> Please, don't. Let's try to keep it in sync with upstream unless absolutely necessary.
<HappyCamp> bspencer, Okay, so why don't you work with me and then I can try to work with one of the MOTU's to get it pushed up.
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, please don't what?
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  as long as upstream likes lots of MID-specific UI changes (like arbitrary menu reorganizing)
<agoliveira> rustyl: Just start a black page and you should see the template options.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: rename the application.
<rustyl> hmm.... i don't see a blueprint template
<rustyl> let me look again
<agoliveira> bspencer: Of course if you want to fork... but I don't see a reason foir that.
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, I wasn't planning on it.
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, have you seen our moblin-calc?  Have you tried it?
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: Oh, I misunderstood you.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: I don't think I did.
<bspencer> ok.  let me put together a few patches for it.  
<bspencer> agoliveira, what do you think about the menu reorg for all the mobile apps?
<rustyl> agoliveira, ahh.... it's called a "SpecTemplate"
<rustyl> i was looking for a blueprint something or another
<agoliveira> bspencer: I think that's a very good idea. If we want to have a product and not a hacker's edition of whatever, the simpler the better.
<agoliveira> rustyl: I was sure it was there somewhere, I just didn't remember exactly the name.
<bspencer> agoliveira, we are struggling here trying to decide how to get passed the hacker edition
<bspencer> it means really owning things and getting a tight look/feel to them
<bspencer> but that takes a lot of time
<bspencer> it doesn' thappen overnight
<agoliveira> bspencer: Really, a lot of time and work.
<bspencer> HappyCamp, do I need to get a new image-creator in order to get a working image for the Q1 today?
<bspencer> or can I just create a new target ?
<HappyCamp> I would update image-creator to get rustyl 's fix for the depmod issue.
* bspencer checks his watch and sees if there is sufficient time in the day to start that process...
<bspencer> ok, thx.
<bspencer> HappyCamp, starting the process now.  Time check: 12:16
<bspencer> PDT
<HappyCamp> okay :)
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: starting process here with a make cleaninstall
* agoliveira confirms that latest image-creator results in a bootable image but with issues: no meu and no way to configure the network.
<agoliveira> s/meu/menu
<bspencer> HappyCamp, make failed
<bspencer> make install I mean
<bspencer> do I just ignore the test failures?
<HappyCamp> Do you have projects with platforms other then mccaslin-lpia and menlow-lpia?
<bspencer> yes, certainly
<HappyCamp> That's why :(
<bspencer> I do real work over here
<bspencer> I can't afford to be without a working target
<bspencer> and thank goodness or I would have been stuck for the last week
<HappyCamp> Man you should move over two rows, we don't do any real work over here :)
<bspencer> while you sorted out LPIA
<bspencer> :)
<bspencer> so I can't update until I remove non-LPIA targets?
<bspencer> why the arbitrary check?
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: Just finished creating a new project after cleaninstall
<bspencer> and why are we always burning our old bridges befrore the new one is built?
<suihkulokki> it puts some speed into building the new one
<bspencer> doesn't seem to :)
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> So every one will work on the new bridge :)
<suihkulokki> well, thats the _theory_ :)
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: created a new target, now install the full FSET
<bspencer> HappyCamp_ubuntu, you're on your own.  I can't give up my old target until next week
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> okay.
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> live in the past bspencer .  Just live in the past! ;)
<bspencer> HappyCamp, actually I'm screwed because I can't start image-creator
<bspencer> going to debug why now... <sigh>
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: you could rollback image creator to a previous version.
<bspencer> yes, trying
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> git log, find the version.  Then git checkout.
<bspencer> something about git 
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> Almost done installing the samsung full with proprietary.  It is downloading the flash player now.
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: took 12 minutes from start to finish, and I did it manually.
<bspencer> my clock is still ticking over here as I peruse git logs for a good rollback place
<smagoun> bspencer: I'm using commit 3af285f34d0853ac9f01334b317bef8e82681769 with success
* agoliveira wonders how simple those git id's are...
<smagoun> heh...I think they're SHA-1 hashes of the commit, which is why they're so ugly.
<sabotage> HappyCamp_ubuntu: 12 minutes?  I'm 3 hours and counting still...finally adding fsets.  Is there a local mirror we can point to?
* ian_brasil started 9 hours ago and still installing the full mobile fset
<sabotage> ouch
* sabotage feels lucky(er)
<HappyCamp> sabotage, yep use the proxy server.
<HappyCamp> s/proxy/mirror/
<HappyCamp> https://umd.jf.intel.com/projects/umd/wiki/SpeedingUpImageCreator
<HappyCamp> ian_brasil, you may want to mirror ubuntu locally, if you can spare 60 GB of bandwidth.  Or setup a caching proxy server locally.
<sabotage> HappyCamp: thanks
<smagoun> FWIW We set up a pair of mirrors - one updated nightly, and a stable one that's updated by hand. It's a pain to set up, but with upstream broken so often the stable mirror has been a big help.
<agoliveira> smagoun: I hope you improved you link a bit to do it :)
<smagoun> sadly, no. It's just a T1 :(
* smagoun remembers when "just a T1" was a big deal
* agoliveira thinks it's very weird to have more downstream bandwidth than you
<smagoun> I have 6mbit at home, I think.
<smagoun> I hear there's a gigabit fiber drop in this building, too bad we're not hooked up.
<agoliveira> I can't get more than 2M around here.
<smagoun> but you can get guarana and caipirinhas there. They are difficult to find here. So it's a fair tradeoff, really.
<agoliveira> smagoun: Fair enough... :) BTW, if wasn't for the freaking liquids-on-plane ban, I'll gladly bring you some guaran and cachaa...
<bspencer> HappyCamp, the tag we rolled to only supports non-LPIA builds
<HappyCamp> bspencer, Go a little bit more forward
* agoliveira is going now. Bye.
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: "I'll gladly bring you some guaran and cachaa"...wouldn't get much coding dome
<ian_brasil> maybe just the gurana and we will all code like ninja's
<HappyCamp> ian_brasil, I updated the readme file with info on how to speed up image creator if you have a local mirror.  You have to get the latest version of image creator from the Git repo to see it.
<ian_brasil> HappyCamp: Cool, thx for that
<ToddBrandt> Is the ubuntu owner of the gnome-applets package online?
<joelbryan> hello, I have a Nokia 7710, is there a Ubuntu Mobile version for it?
<mjg59> No
<mjg59> We're targetting mobile x86 right now
<mjg59> Nothing at the phone level
<WorkingOnWise> what x86 mobile hardware is there?
<joelbryan> This is really exciting project.
<joelbryan> any distro out there that can replace symbian?
<mjg59> joelbryan: No
<mjg59> It's not a matter of replacing Symbian - it's a matter of porting the entire kernel to your phone
<mjg59> WorkingOnWise: UMPC, and MID turns up next year
<WorkingOnWise> oh yeah...I forgot about the UMPC's! My eyes would neve tolerate them at my dusty age!
<rustyl> Has anyone here been able to use xserver-xgl on a samsung-q1?  I am experimenting with clutter and want to enable the 2d/3d hardware, so i 'apt-get install xserver-xgl'
<rustyl> but after installing xserver-xgl i get a lot of strange behavior
<rustyl> like a clutter app (or 3d game) will cause the xserver to crash
<rustyl> am I missing a step?
<mjg59> rustyl: Yes - 3D apps don't work well on xserver-xgl
<mjg59> You shouldn't need it
<rustyl> let me ask another way... what do i need to install in order for opengl'sh apps (like anything that uses the clutter libs) to use the graphics hardware instead of doing all the work on the CPU?
<rustyl> this is an area i have never really understood
<mjg59> libgl1-mesa-dri
<rustyl> thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-09
<bspencer> rustyl, mjg59  I got clutter running.  Default image doesn't have /etc/xdg/menus
<rustyl> rustyl, yea, me too
<bspencer> but after putting that down I'm able to get something wiggling on the Samsung.
<rustyl> but it runs really really slow... i'm attempting to install libgl1-mesa-dri, but the libgl packages seem to be in flux, so the install fails on a dependency that doesn't exists yet
<bspencer> note as fluid as I'd hoped
<bspencer> rustyl, I got that working
<bspencer> 3D games work ok
<bspencer> my image is not LPIA though
<rustyl> i'm updating again and will attempt the apt-install again
<bspencer> it is a week old
<rustyl> bspencer, you mean lpiacomat
<bspencer> right. 
<bspencer> it is just mccasslin i386
<rustyl> bspencer, mjg59, i went ahead and uploaded a fix to gstreamer-dbus-media-service.  The source now registers itself as org.moblin.MobileMediaSerivce with a changelog entry set as 'gutsy' in anticipation of pushing to the gutsy apt repository
<rustyl> damn... still waiting on libgl1-mesa-glx (= 7.0.0-0ubuntu3)
<mjg59> rustyl: Sweet, thanks
<rustyl> the player still needs some love
<bspencer> rustyl, mirror :)
<bspencer> rustyl,   mjg59 also mentioned that the mobile player didn't have MobileMediaService as an install dependency
<rustyl> mjg59, i just found something else that needs to be change in the gstreamer-dbus-media-service
<dholbach> good morning
<xyzzy_bill> Hey, guys.  What do you think of Google's GPhone OS effort?
<mjg59> When we've seen it, we might be able to tell you
<xyzzy_bill> As I understand it, Ubuntu-Mobile will not be of much use to smartphones, though I do see it listed in the mission statement.  Is there any effort to push towards phones?
<mjg59> Not as yet
<xyzzy_bill> Because frankly, the Samsung Q Ultra has the sex appeal of an Elephant.
<mjg59> The Q1 is primarily a development platform for the MID hardware
<mjg59> (from a UME perspective)
<xyzzy_bill> Hey, guys... I'm really just interested in smartphone sw dev.  OpenMoko looks like it's making progress, though it could go under or be eclipsed by something else.
<xyzzy_bill> Would you guys suggest I drop interest in Ubuntu Mobile for smartphones, and go join OpenMoko for smartphone dev?
<smagoun> xyzzy_bill: A number of people have expressed interest in Ubuntu for smartphones, but it's not something being worked on. You're welcome to start such a project!
<rustyl> Anyone know anything about the status of uploading libgl1-mesa-glx  version 7.0.0-0ubuntu3 in the ports apt repository?  This has been blocking my ability to install libgl1-mesa-dri since yesterday.
<rustyl> or at least, yesterday is the first time i ever tried to install lbgl1-mesa-dri
<bspencer> agoliveira, morning
<bspencer> agoliveira, about claws + hildon, I saw your email to frank last night.  If I install claws today inside LPIA target, will it be Hildon?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Good afternoon around here but it's the spirit that counts :)
<bspencer> Goooooood afternoooon!!
<agoliveira> bspencer: It should but there's a bug on the build that I already solved. I'm just finishing somehting before and make a final test before ask for upload it.
<bspencer> can you let me know when it is done?  I'm bugging Frank to add some fixes to claws and he's pointing fingers
<bspencer> (not that your work is blocking, but it is nice if we can verify everything is working good)
<bspencer> anyway, just put it on your list.  thanks!
<agoliveira> bspencer: No problem.
<bspencer> is it possible to tell whether a package is part of a bigger meta package?
<bspencer> for example, i want to put 3D hardware driver as an install requirement for my clutter UI, but this will be different for each platform
<bspencer> perhaps there is a meta package for 3d hardware drivers   (e.g. libgl1-mesa-dri)    :)
<amitk> anybody on who uses a crownbeach?
<amitk> rustyl, bspencer: could you find me a scapegoat^Wbeta-tester who as a crownbeach board?
<rob_moblin> amitk, what do you need?
<amitk> rob_moblin: some to test a crownbeach kernel
<rob_moblin> amitk: i've got cb hw 
<rob_moblin> and either myself or one of minions can test it ;-)
<rob_moblin> amitk, btw how is the crown beach hw we sent you holding up?
<rob_moblin> amitk, meet Inuka 
<rob_moblin> Inuka, meet amitk
<rob_moblin> Inuka, amitk needs our help to test a CB kernel on a CB platform
<amitk> rob_moblin: brilliant. Could you boot with linux-headers-2.6.22-14-lpia_2.6.22-14.41_lpia.deb, linux-headers-2.6.22-14_2.6.22-14.41_all.deb, linux-image-2.6.22-14-lpia_2.6.22-14.41_lpia.deb, linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-14-lpia_2.6.22-14.35_lpia.deb from  http://people.ubuntu.com/~amitk/  
<amitk> hi Inuka
<Inuka> hi, amit
<Inuka> amit, I will give it a shot and let you know
<amitk> rob_moblin: it's hold up fine. I just don't have SDIO HW at the moment.
<amitk> Inuka: Could you test some SDIO, SDHC and that psb loads and thermal shows what you need it to show.
<rob_moblin> amitk, do you mean the COMMS hw that connects over SDIO ? you should have SDIO controller as it's in the poulsbo chipset
<amitk> Inuka: I have done the latter two, but confirmation would be good
<amitk> rob_moblin: I don't have and SDIO peripheral handy right now
<amitk> s/and/any
<rob_moblin> amitk: what sdio drivers do you have configured in the kernel?
<rob_moblin> amitk, we don't really have any sdio peripherals either, other than the same sdio dev board that mauri gave to someone from ubuntu in boston
<amitk> rob_moblin: just mss_sdhci.ko at the moment
<amitk> and I don't have an SDHC card handy either :/
<amitk> rob_moblin: I have the sdio dev board from Mauri, but it is at my old place. Need to go fetch it this weekend.
<rob_moblin> amitk, if you had the sd8686 driver configured in the kernel we could test that out, otherwise we could try some sd memory cards
<amitk> rob_moblin: sd8686 driver is in there.. but you will have to copy the firmware manually into /lib/firmware/blahblahblah
<rob_moblin> ok
<rob_moblin> amitk, inuka will download and test your kernels, it might take him the day to get it configured and tested out 
<amitk> rob_moblin, Inuka: sure. Send me email if you run into problems. I am almost done here for the day.
<amitk> Inuka: I tried this using image-creator and then manually installing the new kernels into the filesystem chroot
<amitk> Inuka: rob_moblin: thanks
<Inuka> amitk, I will let you know as soon as I get it setup
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-10
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<dholbach> good morning
<asac> Mithrandir: isn't there a milestone release for mobile this week as well? any help help needed to sponsor/review packages for that?
<Mithrandir> asac: next week, with the release.
<Mithrandir> but yeah, I'm hoping the moblin people are going to spend a little bit of time to push those updates in soon
<asac> Mithrandir: ok cool. Is there a list of packages that still need to get in?
<asac> Mithrandir: or are most just updates?
<Mithrandir> mostly updates, but I think we want to get the new UI in too.
<asac> theme?
<Mithrandir> well, the theme too, but that wasn't what I was thinking about.
<Mithrandir> mobile-clutter-home
<asac> http://www.moblin.org/repos/ ... how is it named there?
<Mithrandir> it's not listed, but it's available if you just mangle the url a bit
<asac> mdz: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/schrep/archives/2007/10/mozilla_and_mobile.html
<mdz> davidm: ^^^
<mdz> asac: thanks
<asac> mdz: did you talk to schrep when you were in mountain view (i think a few month back)? e.g. does he know about our efforts?
<mdz> asac: no, only John Lilly
<mdz> asac: and the minimo guy
<mdz> asac: I have talked with schrep quite a bit in the past about Mozilla and Ubuntu, but not recently, and not since we began the mobile project
<asac> mdz: ok, i would like to send him a heads-up mail ... unless you want to take-over of course.
<mdz> asac: john lilly did mention to me their desire to move into mobile, but so far, their work has been on making a small browser
<asac> mdz: his mail would be schrep@mozilla.com
<mdz> asac: (tiny screens, tiny storage)
<mdz> while what we want is a MID-sized (ha ha) browser
<mdz> asac: feel free to contact him on our behalf; please copy davidm
<asac> ok, just @canonical.com?
<mdz> asac: david.mandala@canonical.com
<asac> thanks
<davidm> asac, or davidm@canonical.com will work also
<davidm> either or
<lool> Mithrandir: That would be the mesa lpia fix: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/mesa/7.0.1-1ubuntu3/gutsy-lpia-pbuilder/  Indeed, using a base.tgz works fine; I tried looking into the cowdancer issue, but it seemed subtle and time consuming, so I'll try reproducing with something more traditionnal such as amd64/i386 instead of amd64/lpia and see if it still happens there
<Mithrandir> lool: can you just post the debdiff there, please?
<lool> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/mesa/7.0.1-1ubuntu3/gutsy-lpia-pbuilder/mesa_7.0.1-1ubuntu3.debdiff
<Mithrandir> that trivial. :-)
<lool> Yeah :)
<lool> But I checked it built fine; I wasn't sure other files didn't need changes too
<lool> Mithrandir: BTW, not sure whether the appropriate dri module will be available, it will only help for installability; the list of files in the package is: http://paste.ubuntu.com/736/
<lool> (No intel module, but then this might not be required in their case, I don't know)
<Mithrandir> I think we want a dri module for mccaslin
<lool> Does Intel engineering work on such code perhaps?
<lool> I guess they know that they need the userspace counterpart in mesa
<Mithrandir> that's for menlow, not mccaslin
<Mithrandir> mesa sure takes its time to compile.
* Mithrandir finds a faster machine
<lool> Mithrandir: Yeah, I was surprized as wel
<lool> l
<lool> Mithrandir: If you didn't start the build, could you add a LP: # to the changelog?
<Mithrandir> sure, I could.  I'm looking at fixing the problem first, though
<lool> Mithrandir: The id is #151228
<lool> Mithrandir: Are you looking in having a new dri module?
<agoliveira> kwwii: Hi Ken. I just uploaded the theme packages. As soon as they are ready (built), I'll let you know.
<agoliveira> kwwii: Actually, after the talk we had the final changes became ridiculously simple :)
<kwwii> agoliveira: sweet, thanks man
<kwwii> can you send me an email with some simple instructions on how to upload my changes
<agoliveira> kwwii: My pleasure. Sorry it took so long.
<kwwii> agoliveira: no worries, I just want to get in some changes to the gtkrc (through the template) befreo we release
<Mithrandir> lool: I'm off for the day, so if you have spare cycles, please do attack it.  If not, I'll poke it tomorrow morning.
<lool> Mithrandir: Hmm I'm not sure what needs to be done
<Mithrandir> lool: me neither, maybe talk to bryce about it, he might have an idea.
<lool> Good idea
<spheric> hi
<spheric> does anybody know how to change the flash menu?
<ian_brasil> spheric: just add your image and a desktop file in the target
<spheric> where do i have to put the desktop file?
<spheric> an the icon :p
<spheric> and
<ian_brasil> spheric: have you seen the ume guide?
<spheric> in the wiki?
<ian_brasil> yes, have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UMEGuide/ApplicationDevelopment
<ian_brasil> Porting a Python App to UME is your best bet
<spheric> thanks, i'll take a look
<ian_brasil> no problem
<spheric> i'm triyng to install xournal to use it at class...
<spheric> i like very much the interface...
<spheric> i'm using it in a hp tc1100
<ian_brasil> cool...there is a bit more about flash on my blog too http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/location-services-on-ubuntu-mobile
<spheric> ouch! i see it's no as easy as i thought...
<ian_brasil> spheric: it is pretty easy really..if you need help just shout
<spheric> thanks
<spheric> :)
<ian_brasil> if you know flash just copy the .fla and change that and then create the .swf
<ian_brasil> and put it in the target filesystem
<spheric> ops, i don't know flash, but i'll try
<spheric> can i do that with ume running? inside it?
<ian_brasil> spheric: what do you want to do to the flash menu?
<spheric> i want to add an icon to lauch xournal
<ian_brasil> cool...for this then you need to add the icon to flash and have it execute when you click it
<ian_brasil> xournal looks cool...do you use this for school?
<spheric> yes, for university classes
<spheric> this way, i don't loose them and i can carry all teachers pdf's without break my back
<ian_brasil> have you tried starting it from the shell?..it might be easier this way if you don't know flash
<spheric> nope
<spheric> i'll try.
<ian_brasil> click on the shell icon and type xournal and then enter ;)
<spheric> i don't understand why use flash :$
<ian_brasil> there is a html interface too
<spheric> th "howto" for the html interface is also in the ubuntu wiki?
<bspencer> spheric, I didn't create any "howto" yet.  What information would you like?
<spheric> (i'm sorry if i'm boring you :$)
<spheric> just how to use it. if i do not install the flash plugin, it appears a text telling me i have to
<bspencer> Mithrandir, was going to install a new version of the mobile-basic-flash
<bspencer> after that it will default to the HTML UI.  No flash needed
<ian_brasil> my default is the html
<bspencer> ian_brasil, black background version?
<ian_brasil> bspencer:yes
<ian_brasil> bpencer: ah, no it is like ubuntu brown
<ian_brasil> spheric: you are not boring me...you told me about xournal which i did not know about
<spheric> thanks...
<spheric> xournal is hildonized... i have it in my n700
<bspencer> ian_brasil, ugh  :).  You should change the background to black using control panel
<spheric> so i think it would be easier to port/adapt
<ian_brasil> spheric: OK, sounds like a useful tool..i will try it out this weekend 
<spheric> i think is the best one. I've tried jarnal and gournal too, but i prefer xournal
<ian_brasil> do you have any config problems with your n700?
<spheric> nope
<spheric> i had with some dependencies
<spheric> but adding extras maemo repo, every thing works fine
* agoliveira took some time with the backlog...
<agoliveira> spheric: I didn't see any hildon code on the xournal we have on the repository which is not surprising as it's not common that "hildonizations" arrive upstream but this is of interest to UME. Can you send me the sources or patchs or point me where I can find this hildonized xournal?
<spheric> etrunko is the hacker ( http://etrunko.blogspot.com/ )
<spheric> supose th e code can be in the repo ( http://www.bgran.net/etrunko/apt/pool/user/x/xournal/ )
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<agoliveira_lunch> AM I here yet?
<agoliveira> Now I am :)
* ian_brasil applauds
<smagoun> what's the URL for the nightly build images?
<agoliveira> smagoun: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/moblin/ and choose your poison :)
<smagoun> thanks!
<ian_brasil> is something supposed to appear when executing the control panel in the UI?
<ian_brasil> i get the context menu but just a white background
<ian_brasil> maybe i need to apt-get moblin-applets then
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Same here
<amitk> Inuka, rob_moblin: Hi
<rob_moblin> hi amitk 
<amitk> Good to hear about the test. I just want to make sure that there are no major issues that will hold back UME in 2 weeks when Gutsy is released
<ian_brasil> agoliveira:yes that was it...control panel looks great!
<rob_moblin> amitk, we've only tested it with SDIO WLAN card...we should look at having SDIO devices and SD memory cards plugged in at the same time ... we've heard reports that is a problem with the MSS stack
<agoliveira> Ooooh. What does this button do?
<amitk> Mithrandir: Just tried the daily build. The one for samsung doesn't need the lpia kernel - only lpiacompat
<agoliveira> amitk: Tollef took off some time ago already
<agoliveira> Slowly... ports go slowly... it's taking forever... doing an upgrade (sing it like Akon's Lonely)
<bspencer> anyone tried the new HTML UI?
<bspencer> I just realized that our default theme might not be "mobilebasic"   Not sure if it is "Human"
<bspencer> the new UI reads the gconf theme value.  
<bspencer> w/o the right theme default set in gconf the backgrounds of the buttons will be missing.  
<bspencer> fyi
<bspencer> :)
<bspencer> kwwii_, ping   What theme packages will we have ?
<bspencer> (theme and icon)
<bspencer> for example.  kwwii_theme, hicolor icon pkg, kwwii_icon_theme, hildon-icon theme
<suihkulokki> bspencer: I notice you have a quite modified data/*.conf set in hildon-desktop
<bspencer> oops, I meant 1 theme, and 3 icon packages which fall back 
<bspencer> suihkulokki, hello.  
<bspencer> have we met?
<bspencer> modified from the dfeault hildon?
<suihkulokki> I don't think so
<suihkulokki> yes
<bspencer> movial
<suihkulokki> I guess it would make more sense to maintain the UME and maemo versions in separate directories
<bspencer> suihkulokki, yes, definatley
<bspencer> we actually made a proposal for a patch for UME stuff in hildon
<bspencer> they responded by suggesting that a particular UI layout shouldn't be part of the upstream Hildon
<bspencer> and they were going to reorganize it a little
<bspencer> that's the last I heard about it
<bspencer> it would be nice if it were a separate package I think
<bspencer> so we didn't have to  these UI-specific changes upstream
<suihkulokki> well, separate package would be even better
<suihkulokki> since those config files are heavily dependant on implementation and screen size
<bspencer> yes, that is another problem
<bspencer> Hildon now supports auto-stretching the panel graphics
<suihkulokki> how I noticed - I was trying to merge the latest upstream code tu ubuntu/debian branches..
<bspencer> so we specify 800x480, but if the screen is 1024x600 then it will stretch them
<suihkulokki> conflict hell
<bspencer> oh, we are doing the same work too
<bspencer> I asked horace here to get the latest Hildon and see what needed to be changed wrt ubuntu's version
<bspencer> mainly the data folder
<bspencer> there are a few small changes elsewhere iirc
<suihkulokki> not much seems changed.. mostly bugfixes.
<bspencer> right, that's what Nokia guys said
<bspencer> anyone here played with the microphone on the Q1 ? 
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-11
<kwwii_> bspencer: sorry, my ssh connection to my server was dead for the last few hours
<kwwii_> bspencer: I'll try to sort that our tommorow and get back to you
<kwwii_> bspencer: probably something provisional for now. it is kinda late to start worrying about themeing now
<kwwii_> bspencer: I did keep saying we need to get things rolling again and again, not much more we can do now probably
<bspencer> kwwii_, sure
<kwwii> I have to say that I am totally unhappy about how the whole themeing stuff has gone
<bspencer> say more
<bspencer> you waiting for us and us not getting our part done?
<kwwii> well, I sent many mails discussing the problems and it seems that it was always assumed that I would do the artwork and the development of such
<kwwii> yes, basically
<bspencer> I feel like we dropped the ball too.  Our PRC holiday took a lot out at the end and I was unable to create the new HTML and work on theme packages
<bspencer> maybe we could just drop in some graphics in the existing hildon-theme-mobile-basic  package
<bspencer> and work on the complete theme package post-gutsy due to freeze
<kwwii> well, I know that on my side there will be no excuses as to why things did not get done...I must say that I am very unhappy with the intel side of this whole deal - without adilson we would not have any theme package at all
<kwwii> i mean, how hard can it be to change the flash bg from blue to orange?
<bspencer> hm, I'm totally unaware of any help from adilson
<bspencer> or changes to the flash pkg
<bspencer> or any theme whatsoever
<bspencer> I know of this broken theme I've been hacking on adding graphics from jason
<bspencer> and Peter_u3 was doing some work to get the tools for building themes to work I thought
<bspencer> is there a theme package from adilson?
<bspencer> I recently added support in the mobile-basic-flash package for updating the background both for flash and new HTML version based on user preferences
<bspencer> and also notification in the HTML version for updating the theme
<kwwii> bspencer: lol, he is the one who has now stepped up and make the theme package
<kwwii> the hildon theme package
<kwwii> I have been going on and one about that and nobody seemed to care to he had to take care of it
<bspencer> crap
<kwwii> and now we have some half-way sollution
<kwwii> with the old layout
<kwwii> I am not going to buy flash to change the background of the flash package that we cannot distribute anway
<kwwii> if there was more to it, I would but just to change that it is stupid
<kwwii> it seems to me that some people simply do not want to change to our them
<bspencer> I honestly never remember any request to change the flash background.  seriously
<kwwii> s/them/theme
<bspencer> I do :)
<kwwii> I send an email a few days ago stating this
<bspencer> well crap on us.  sorry dude.  
<bspencer> recently Mithrandir pulled a new mobile-basic-flash package
<bspencer> it defaults to HTLM
<bspencer> no flash req'd 
<bspencer> this probably doesn't make anyone really happy, but if you want to change its background you can
<bspencer> and the graphics for the buttons are in the theme, if they exist at all
<bspencer> so if you are using adilson_theme package, then there are likley no graphics called mb_gridhtml_*
<bspencer> so the UI will look lame
<kwwii> I can give you buttons, as I said in my email but they will be for our theme and not for another color
<kwwii> it seems like whatever I say if it is not centered around not doing a black-orange theme it gets somehow ignored
<bspencer> what is adilson's theme called?
<kwwii> ume-basic I think
<bspencer> is it in gutsy?
<kwwii> I think he already submitted it, not sure
<bspencer> ok.  I don't see it in the repo yet.  
<bspencer> I'll try to get wth him next time he is alive and sync
<kwwii> there were a few problems, as expected
<kwwii> the hildon theme tools download the layout from maemo
<kwwii> the fact that we are figuring this out now says a lot about the process
<bspencer> granted making the theme was way more complex than I anticipated
<kwwii> we need to change the tools themselves to fit our stuff
<bspencer> I'm pretty sure that my guys don't know what those changes are
<kwwii> no matter which color it is
<bspencer> for our layout specifically?
<kwwii> our layout being the layout-4 with the things we do not need removed (perhaps) and the things we do need added (like the marquee, buttons, etc)
<kwwii> if the artist has to tell people what to do as far as coding goes there is real problem if you ask me
<bspencer> you're not just the artist
<bspencer> though you play one well
<bspencer> I think Peter should document our knowledge of themes on a wiki so we all get on the same page
<bspencer> but that is after gutsy
<bspencer> for gutsy we should tweak adilson's theme and see if we can get it in
<bspencer> images/mb_gridhome_btn_active.png  images/mb_gridhome_btn.png  images/mb_gridhome_btn_prelight.png
<kwwii> lol, my job is just artist..that I happen to know a bit more because of my experience does not mean that I have the time do that for this project
<kwwii> I am working on like 4 other artwork projects at the same time
<bspencer> fair enough.  I'm working on like 10 other applications at the same time and trying to keep my marriage in tact
<kwwii> I can give good advice where neccesary but that does not meant that I am opening a vi to start coding :-)
<kwwii> oh, yeah, I am married with child as well
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for bed
<bspencer> sure.
<bspencer> glad to send you off on a good note
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> see you soon
<bspencer> k
<bspencer> ciao
<bspencer> tchuss
<kwwii> ciao
<dholbach> good morning
<Peter_u3> kwwii, you around?
<kwwii> Peter_u3: hi
<Peter_> kwwi, you around?
<Peter_> kwwii, you around?
<kwwii> Peter_: yes, but I am in a conf call atm
<Peter_> kwwii, ok, nop. I just want to know if anything I can help. 
* kwwii hops from one meeting to the next :-(
<Mithrandir> it's still another hour.
<Mithrandir> for this one, at least.
<kwwii> Peter_: teh biggest issue we have technically at the moment is figuring out how to use our own layout
<kwwii> Mithrandir: I mean the distro meeting
<Mithrandir> oh, true.
<Peter_u3> kwwi, I'm a bit confused. Once we are done with adding pieces to end of template.png one by one, the coordinate for new pieces should be clear without affecting existing elements. I proberbly didn't get your point, yes/no?
<Peter_u3> kwwii
<kwwii> Peter_u3: yes, we just need to add the things somewhere in the file and then add them to the layout but look at the theme-tools and you will see that they want to download a layout from maemo svn...adilson has started work on this but we need to finish it and really get it right
<Peter_u3> kwwii, you mean layout.txt?
<kwwii> Peter_u3: if you look at the tools to create a package you will see that it downloads stuff from maemo svn, that is the problem with the tools...in addition we need to add the coordinates to whatever pics we add to the layout, yes
<kwwii> so one part is getting the tools right and the other part is getting a theme package in bzr so that we can tweak it
<kwwii> really, I am just an artist who knows too much :p
<Peter_u3> downloads? I didn't see.  Strange. For adding coordinates to layout.txt, you are our only hope. Yes, you know much,:-), good guy.
<kwwii> run hildon-theme-bootstrap and see what it does
<kwwii> but we need to get a theme package in and set as default before we can really tweak and test anything
<kwwii> otherwise testing with the daily builds is a huge waste of time
<Peter_u3> I don't think we need bootstrap. An artist don't need. 
<Peter_u3> I didn't try to play with that. 
<kwwii> yes, an artist will definitely need it to create a basic package for their new theme
<Peter_u3> From a real use point, I don't believe OSV/OEM need bootstrap. kwwii, I mean they need a hildon-theme-toos without bootstrap.
<kwwii> Peter_u3: using bootstrap makes things much easier as they do not have to hunt through text files to set the name, email, etc
<kwwii> it is a great place to start a fresh new theme
<kwwii> without having to hack through an older one
<Peter_u3> Hmm, yes, I admit it's true. But from schedule point, how about skipping it for this release and adding it next milestone. Anyway I will try to look at bootstrap tomorrow.
<kwwii> right, we can wait on those parts due to the schedule
<kwwii> in any case, you'll want to check with agoliveira to see what he has done on this stuff so far and where the problems lie that we still need to get fixed
<Peter_u3> I didn't look at bootstrap yet. agoliveira, you are back from lunch?
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: Yes, just arrived I modified the theme-tools so we can grab a standard theme that Ken created from the repository so one can modify and upload to it. Right now we are testing it.
<kwwii> this has been a busy week for us :-)
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, good news. 
* agoliveira can't agree more...
<Peter_u3> So any other thing I can help? 
<rustyl> morning
<Peter_u3> kwwii, yes, busy week for you. Sorry again I didn't notice you for my long vacation.
<Peter_u3> rustyl, morning. you see my mail on ubuntu list? 
<rustyl> Peter_u3, i'm just now opening email
* kwwii wants vacation :-(
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: BTW, I have a claws package for you to play with. I'll email ina  minute.
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, ok. but I can only play with it tomorrow. is that ok?
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: No problem, it a holiday here tomorrow so I won't be working anyway :)
<Peter_u3> kwwii, when was your last vacation? 
<Peter_u3> rustyl, I want to get notification as system entering idle in/out. Any service under dev or plan for ppm?
* agoliveira is a month away from a week long vacation not know for about 5 years :)
<kwwii> Peter_u3: about a year and a half ago
<rustyl> Peter_u3, ppm is not the software component that will put the system to sleep
<ian_brasil> agoliveira: you are going to paradise so maybe this makes up for it!
<Peter_u3> rustly, does ppm determine and send notification as system enter idle and out of idle triggered by a user touch?
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: I can't be more anxious :)
<agoliveira> For those wanting to know where it is: http://www.salinas.com.br/salinasindex.htm
<Peter_u3> kwwii, agoliveira, it's awesome.
<amitk> agoliveira: let's try to convince somebody to hold the next UDS there
<ian_brasil> there is a convention centre at least!
<agoliveira> amitk: Well, they *do* have a good area for this kind of conference :)
<kwwii> we probably would not get any work done though...and/or we would get work done and hate ourselves for not enjoying the plaec
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, beautiful place. I hope I can attend next UDS.:)
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: I hope we can convince the boss about it :)
<Peter_u3> rustyl, if ppm doesn't , which component does?
<rustyl> Peter_u3, what software component does this on a normal ubuntu system?
<Peter_u3> I can hook notification from dbus service of org.gnome.ScreenSaver. And somebody told me gnome network manager has code doing that. But I didn't try to look into.
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: Just sent you the patch. You can build and do your changes based on this. After you're done, send me the patch back and I'll integrate to it.
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, get it. 
<Mithrandir> asac: you around for the meeting?
<Mithrandir> davidm: and you?
<davidm> Mithrandir, I am here
<asac> will be here in a few
<Mithrandir> hiya Don, John
<lool> Meeting chain up :)
<Don_Johnson> Mithrandir, hello
<Peter_u3> rustyl, there is a signal of "SessionIdleChange" for the service.
<Mithrandir> Don_Johnson: will charlie be joining us today?
<rustyl> Peter_u3, i suspect you should be looking into the hal dbus interface, but i'm not positive
<Don_Johnson> I'll check on charlie
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: Check libosso. It may help.
<Mithrandir> HappyCamp_laptop: seen Mauri around?
<cwong1> Mithrandir: I can go check
<Peter_u3> rustyl, agoliveira, I will look at both. Good advice.
<Mithrandir> cwong1: cheers
<agoliveira> Let's start to bet food on the meetings. If you're not in time for the meeting you own a candy (or beer :) ) to the rest of us.
<HappyCamp_laptop> Mithrandir: I have not seen Mauri, I'm actually at home.
<cwong1> Mithrandir: she is not at here desk at this moment
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: beer > candy.
<agoliveira> +1!
<cwong1> s/here/her/
<Mithrandir> cwong1: could you or somebody else who are local to her and have her cell phone # give her a ring?
<rustyl> Mauri is not in her cube
<cwong1> rustyl: do u have her cell #?
<rustyl> let me see
* agoliveira thinks she's married so her husband might get jealous about the ring :)
<rustyl> no answer
<rustyl> maybe she is stuck in traffic
<Mithrandir> hm, ok.
<Mithrandir> rustyl: are all of your guys here, if you can assume command until she returns?
<rustyl> well, if bob is hear, then yea, lets go :->
<ToddBrandt> here
<bspencer> morning, afternoon, and evening ya'll
<rustyl> btw, none of us seem to physically located in the same place
<bspencer> sorry 8miins late
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, can you send me your latest theme package to me as well?
<Mithrandir> ok, let's start then
<Mithrandir> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:09. The chair is Mithrandir.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<agoliveira> Peter_u3: We talk after meeting, ok?
<Peter_u3> ok
<bspencer> agoliveira: how about during the meeting in another channel ?
<bspencer> like #ubuntu-theme
<Mithrandir> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071004_1705.html doesn't seem to have any action items from last week
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071004_1705.html doesn't seem to have any action items from last week 
<agoliveira> bspencer: Unless you're desperate, I prefer to pay attention here for now.
<bspencer> agoliveira: np 
<agoliveira> bspencer: Thanks
<Mithrandir> does anybody have any more agenda items apart from the ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: discuss gutsy deadlines for mobile
<bspencer> are we done, or what does the freeze mean?
<Mithrandir> sounds good, add it to the agenda?
<bspencer> sure.
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: How about private builds ?/  (i.e. builds with flash included for example.)
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: we have those now.  I can't make them public, for obvious reasons.
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: but feel free to add it to the agenda and I can talk a little bit about them
<HappyCamp_laptop> Mithrandir: maybe general LPIA status?  
<bspencer> Mithrandir: and "Remaining to do's for gutsy" from the global view
<bspencer> s/global/mobile
<HappyCamp_laptop> Do people think it has become as stable as the previous i386 builds.
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: One item - Graphics config for Menlow installs ?
<Mithrandir> just add them all. :-)
<Mithrandir> oh, and next time, please do this before the meeting, not at the start?
<bspencer> how -- on the wiki, or with Mootbot ?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: on the wiki
<bspencer> oh
<Mithrandir> MootBot doesn't know anything about agendas.
<Peter_u3> Mithrandir, upgrade libtelepathy from 0.0.55 to 0.0.57. 
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Ok - didn't know if there was some magic command to enter agenda items or not.
<Mithrandir> I'll just start
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  status reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  status reports 
<Mithrandir> seems we have all the status reports on the list now, does anybody have any questions for any of them?
<dholbach> Peter_u3: maybe directly update to 0.0.58 - it contains some "robustness against NULL errors" fixes
<Mithrandir> amitk: your update, does this mean we now have lpia images without the stock drm.ko?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: For the HTML UI, when will that become the default UME UI ??  
<amitk> Mithrandir: yes
<bfiller> I have a question about UI Status. Bob mentioned flash performance bug was fixed. Can you tell more?
<Peter_u3> dholbach, I can't agree more. But we need Mithrandir's buyin.
<bspencer> bfiller: there were two bugs, one was setTimeout (fn, 1)   which got called every 1/1000 of a second when there wasn't flash
<bspencer> bfiller: bug #2 was in our flash where each icon loaded a startup animation in the background that was running.  So if you had 10 icons, you also had 10 running hidden movies
<bfiller> bspencer: thanks
<agoliveira> bspencer: That sould count for performace :)
<bspencer> yep
<bspencer> :)
<bfiller> bspencer: one other ui related question: can you now get back to running apps without launching a new instance every time?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir, bspencer : Is the HTML UI still scheduled for integration into UME by the end Oct.??  Status says request upload to Gutsy?
<bspencer> bfiller: you mean when you launch the browser 3 times do you always get the same instance, instead of 3 of them ?
<bfiller> bspencer: yes
<bspencer> bfiller: we have a bug for each app.  Some are done, some are not yet but highest priority
<bfiller> bspencer: ok
<bspencer> Charliefjohnson: It is ready for inclusion with gutsy now.  I spoke with mjg59 and he said he would do it friday
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: I asked bspencer about it yesterday and he said uploading a new mobile-basic-flash at that point was sensible.  I think that gets us the HTML view by default.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: correct
<Mithrandir> if mjg59 is doing it tomorrow I'll just let him do it.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: sounds good
<mjg59> Yup, that's the plan
<Charliefjohnson> mjg59: So we should see daily builds with the new UI next week sometime ?
<bspencer> s/new/hot new
<mjg59> Charliefjohnson: I assume so, yes
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: for the keyboard configuration applet, have you given any thought to the hildon input method framework?
<smagoun__> what's necessary to see the new ui now? Just installing the m-b-f from git?
<bspencer> smagoun__: and also a new hildon-theme-mobile-basic   This has the latest button backgrounds.   Then set your background to be black, and set your theme to hildon-theme-mobile-basic (instead of the non-existent Human) using gconf-editor
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: Jian has been focusing on the keyboard, what specifically did you have in mind?
<bspencer> smagoun__:  piece of cake.  :)
<kwwii> lol
<smagoun__> bspencer: thanks, that sounds like fun!
<kwwii> when we will get all that done in the default install?
<Mithrandir> ToddBrandt: have you looked at the input framework at all?
<Charliefjohnson> Did the menlow builds get fixed so that the non-Poulsbo drm modules are no longer included ??
<bspencer> kwwii:  next steps (my opinion):  get agoliveira / kwwii  theme working with HTML UI, make it the default.  We can perhaps do that today/tomorrow for upload by mjg59 this friday
<ToddBrandt> Mithrandir: no, I've been focusing on keybindings, sound, and brightness
<bspencer> kwwii:   and I will work with ToddBrandt to get default settings into gconf for background color and theme selection
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yes.
<bspencer> kwwii: something like that ...?
<kwwii> bspencer: right, let's get that done asap (although today is already over for me)
<bspencer> kwwii: you work lame hours man.  Never when I do.
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> sometimes I stay up late just to be grumpy though :p
<bspencer> appreciated ;)
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: OK - great!
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: btw, if you want any of your items discussed, it would be good to add them to the agenda.
<agoliveira> bspencer: I won't be working tomorrow (religious holiday here) but we can settle that on monday.
<Mithrandir> anyway, let's move on?
<bspencer> Charliefjohnson:  edit this page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: I saw that one of the moblin-applets changes required a patched hildon-control-panel. This lives in both moblin and launchpad. When will all the hildon stuff be removed from moblin?
<bspencer> agoliveira: monday is soo far away.  If you can hand off your stuff to Peter_u3 then he and I can do more
<bspencer> bfiller:  hildon-control-panel is on moblin?   
<agoliveira> bspencer: Sure, let's talk about it later.
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: That patch is for gstreamer initialization and is bad, I'll be removing it today
<bfiller> bspencer: it's listed in http://moblin.org/repos/projects/, as well as hildon-libs
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Update on broken daily builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  Update on broken daily builds 
<Peter_u3> agoliveira, you can get you holiday planned :)
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: the sound configuration applet will also be temporarily disabled as Rusty and I have determined that it's not very useful for mobile platforms
<Mithrandir> the daily builds for mccaslin has been fixed for a little while, but menlow has been broken due to the stock drm.ko being included.
<Mithrandir> amitk has now fixed that, so we should hopefully have nice and working images tomorrow.
<Mithrandir> any questions?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Is the xorg.conf also being set right now?
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: I've never had a problem with that being wrong.
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: are you starting X by hand?
<Charliefjohnson> No - Instead of setting the 2D driver to "psb", it was using something else.  
<agoliveira> fbdev IIRC
<Mithrandir> /etc/X11/xorg.conf isn't used, so what's there is irrelevant.
<amitk> Charliefjohnson: on crownbeach or samsungs?
<amitk> nevermind.. psb -> crownbeach
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I guess I'm missing something here. Where is the driver being set?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  Maybe I'm clueless.  The newer X servers are not using xorg.conf ??  (I only run Crownbeach.)
<Mithrandir> it's using /etc/X11/xorg-crownbeach.conf (iirc, that's the name, it should be easy enough to see)
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: OK - got it.  Thanks.
<Mithrandir> moving on, then
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  private builds
<MootBot> New Topic:  private builds 
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: what is it you were wondering about those?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: What the mechanics will be ?? Where, what and how?
<Mithrandir> it's essentially just a mechanism for stuffing anything which isn't in the archive into a build.
<Mithrandir> it has to come from an archive of some sort, though.
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: So can we start doing a menlow_full private buidl which include the flash plugin?
<Mithrandir> I want to use this as little as possible so as to give people an incentive to get their fixes into the archive, but some bits, like the Adobe flash player we can't distribute at all, so that would be appropriate.
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yes, we've been doing those for a few days already.
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Can you send an email about where to find them?
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: we'll have to set up password-protected download areas and such.  That is not yet ready.
<Mithrandir> I'll talk to the cdimage folks about how exactly we're going to publish them.
<Mithrandir> they shouldn't be listed anywhere, nor should they be rsyncable without a password.
<mdz> Mithrandir: please file a ticket in RT about the download area
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: OK thanks.  Our internal test teams would appreciate it.
<agoliveira> Can't we just have a icon or menu item that just apt-get flashplugin-nonfree
<mdz> Mithrandir: the sooner the better, so they are aware
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. 
<Mithrandir> any more questions?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: not from me.
<Mithrandir> moving on, then
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  TODO for gutsy
<MootBot> New Topic:  TODO for gutsy 
<bspencer> we are cognizant of the fact that we are in a deep freeze and we want to know how long we should continue full-court press to try and get things into UME gutsy
<bspencer> so in the next few days, is it still possible to upload new bits and what is left before we are done with anything gutsy
<bspencer> and can relax and get acquainted with our wives and kids back home
<mdz> bspencer: the release team are projecting Monday evening as drop-dead for 7.10
<Charliefjohnson> IMHO: if the target for UME is now Hardy - then why do we care bout Gutsy anyway.
<Mithrandir> from experience, that sounds about right.
<bspencer> Charliefjohnson: good point.  perhaps I shouldn't
<mdz> this bleeds into the topic I was going to raise next
<mdz> which is planning for the transition to hardy
<bspencer>  my goal was a working HTML UI with theme in gutsy
<bspencer> w/o flash requirement 
<mdz> we may have an awkward period where there is a lot of churn in hardy, prior to the first milestone
<mdz> and I wanted to raise the question of whether we can just tolerate that, or if we should make some arrangements to temporarily continue development based on 7.10 in order to keep things moving
<Mithrandir> we need to bite the bullet at some point, and I'd like us to do it early rather than late.
<Mithrandir> at the same time, we need to not end up being blocked on everything being unstable
<mdz> it is quite likely that we will not be able to create images based on Hardy for several weeks
<bspencer> Mithrandir: HappyCamp would like your style, but it stinks to have unusable stuff.
<bfiller> mdz: keeping things moving for UME customers would be a good thing
<mdz> and a lack of builds has been an issue for Charliefjohnson and others in the past
<bspencer> mdz: we definately need to be able to create new images all the time (IMO)
<Charliefjohnson> mdz: We have a number of driver integrations coming in late Oct./early Nov.  We'd like to not block those due to the switch over to hardy.
<Mithrandir> I've estimated that we'll have our first usable build of Hardy on November 10th.
<bfiller> mdz: some sort of transistion plan sounds appropriate
<Mithrandir> but that's a guess more than anything else.
<Don_Johnson> We need to get some way to get releases turned around and into builds, reasonably quickly
<mdz> Mithrandir: so that means no fresh builds from 15 October - 10 November
<agoliveira> Maybe wi will have to fork and keep going on 7.10 before stop later at some point and spend time just merging...
* agoliveira shivers on the tought...
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: there's no reason to believe this would block integrating the drivers, just producing a complete build based on them
<mdz> though that certainly makes testing more difficult
<lool> Can't we pursue the builds against gutsy + ppa thanks to the new work by Mithrandir to allow gutsy + private archive ?
<mdz> agoliveira: it's not as bad as it sounds
<mdz> lool: that's what I proposed
<lool> Uh I can't read then, sorry
<amitk> which brings up a question? Should driver integrations happen before or after the sync to 2.6.23?
<mdz> lool: on the mailing list, I mean
<agoliveira> mdz: Deppending on how long it takes, can become ugly.
<Mithrandir> lool: the mechanism I've created is flexible enough to allow that to happen without any extra effort.
<lool> mdz: Ah
<mdz> amitk: I'd suggest tracking the head of development
<Charliefjohnson> I really think we we'll need to have the continued Gutsy builds until Hardy is ready.
<agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: "ready" is a pretty gray area :)
<lool> mdz: It arrived during the meeting!
<bspencer> agoliveira: bootable to a working UI
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: continued gutsy builds won't help us, since no new code will be flowing into Gutsy (since it will have been released).  What we can do is create a side repository, and do builds based on Gutsy + further mobile-specific updates
<Mithrandir> we don't have support for doing both gutsy and hardy-based builds at the same time, so that would require more work.  JFYI.
<amitk> mdz: I agree, but there _might_ be cases where the driver (which seem to be written for 2.6.18-20) might not just work. I want to make sure Charliefjohnson & team understand that
<Charliefjohnson> mdz: Sorry - I mean your Gutsy + mobile updates.  What we really can't have a 4 weeks without a build to test with.
<lool> Mithrandir: But perhaps the private builds against private archive need to be namespaced already?
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: I'm inclined to agree, hence the suggestions
<Mithrandir> lool: they are.
<mdz> amitk: drivers written for 2.6.18 won't work on gutsy either, no?
<mdz> Mithrandir: I don't think we need parallel builds
<lool> Mithrandir: But not with gutsy? ok
<mdz> Mithrandir: we go from gutsy -> gutsy+ppa -> hardy, always a single build
<amitk> mdz: probably, but the deltas are smaller.
<Mithrandir> mdz: that's doable.
<Charliefjohnson> mdz: Yes that would be fine. 
<lool> mdz: Doesn't make it easy to test the hardy builds before switching
<Mithrandir> lool: sure it does, I have a couple of setups which I can cron into doing daily builds just fine.
<agoliveira> For some time things will overlap a bit but it seems the best plan so far.
<Mithrandir> they just wouldn't be DC internal
<lool> Mithrandir: Oh ok; I don't quite understand what those builds exactly do so specially that individuals can't build images yet
<mdz> lool: that can be tested using moblin-image-creator
<mdz> lool: the daily builds just use image-creator with a special configuration
<Mithrandir> lool: there's nothing magic about them and anybody can build them.
<lool> Hmm Intel got some network issue
<mdz> looks like intel just fell off the face of the earth
<Mithrandir> mdz: at least the intarweb.  Let's hope they're still alive. :-)
* agoliveira feels like 100000 people were screaming...
<Mithrandir> well, the DC-internal archive is of course DC-internal, but I have the files that go into it
<lool> mdz: So the existence of the daily builds is simply to help people who can't run image creator, I suppose people from test teams and QA etc.?
<mdz> Mithrandir: if it was a natural disaster, they'd time out individually ;-)
<Mithrandir> good point.
<mdz> lool: it's to provide an official build which is always up to date
<Mithrandir> lool: it's also a reference point.
<mdz> lool: so that people can replicate each other's results in testing, e.g.
<lool> Ok
<mdz> it's a known quantity
<Mithrandir> ideally, you should be able to do your development without having to use the image creator at all.  We're just not there yet.
<HappyCamp_laptop> :(     ;)
<lool> I guess I will understand things better whenI roll some images and stuff
<agoliveira> Let's stop talking about AMD now...
<agoliveira> :)
<Mithrandir> I suggest we wait for Intel to get back online before we continue?
<HappyCamp_laptop> Good thing I am doing this from home then :)
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: So it wasn't yosemite's volcano yet?
<HappyCamp_laptop> Nope, I live about 1km from Intel, so not a natural disaster.
<Peter_u3> I come here from intel network. 
<agoliveira> I think I meant yellowstone...
<HappyCamp_laptop> My FTTP (Fiber To The Premises) is still going strong.
<HappyCamp_laptop> Peter_u3: are you at JF?
<amitk> HappyCamp_laptop: what speeds to you get?
* agoliveira feels envy now...
<davidm> HappyCamp_laptop FIOS is great.
<HappyCamp_laptop> 15/2 Mbps
<HappyCamp_laptop> Can go faster, but much, much more expensive.
<amitk> not bad at all... 
<bspencer> seems Intel proxy kicked off people 
<HappyCamp_laptop> bspencer: you are back!!
<Peter_u3> no, shanghai. but I uses jf proxy
<bspencer> I'm at home.. just stepped out of the proxy
<HappyCamp_laptop> rustyl is at work, so was cwong1.
<HappyCamp_laptop> We may have to continue without them.
<lool> bspencer: "IRC isn't for work!"
<bspencer> they work to hard
<bspencer> lool: right.  smart IT folks are onto us!
* HappyCamp_laptop wonders if JF had a power failure???
<bspencer> HappyCamp_laptop: no.  I chatted with cwong in #umd after they dropped
<bspencer> agoliveira: we can talk about theme for a sec during the silence
<Mithrandir> did we end up with a conclusion here?  Do gutsy, gutsy + ppa, hardy builds?
<HappyCamp_laptop> Ah okay.  Well who knows when they will be able to get back online.  We probably should continue.  
<Mithrandir> what are the particular bits we really want to happen for gutsy?
<bspencer> Mithrandir:  can we test hardy using image creator + repo settings during the gutsy+ppa transition?
<HappyCamp_laptop> bspencer: didn't you want to get the changes to galculator in?  Or can that wait?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: yes, that should absolutely be possible.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: good Q
<bspencer> here's what I would like:
<bspencer>  - HTML UI with theme
<bspencer>  - new moblin-media update (with theme graphics)
<bspencer> on friday
<HappyCamp_laptop> bspencer: Mithrandir Moblin Image Creator can handle different repositories, if we create different platforms for stuff.
<mdz> [AGREED]  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy
<mdz> Mithrandir: poke
<bspencer> ...oh... I also need to set some default gconf settings for this to work.  So that would be a new moblin-applets
<bspencer> that's all 
<Mithrandir> [AGREED]  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy
<MootBot> AGREED received:  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy 
<mjg59> bspencer: Ok. I'll work with you to sort the graphics fo moblin-media?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: looks easy enough..
<Mithrandir> mjg59: you can handle those two tomorrow?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: OK.  greatly appreciated
<mjg59> Mithrandir: Yup
<Mithrandir> mjg59: great, thanks.
<bspencer> mjg59: what are your hours?
<bspencer> time zone
<Mithrandir> any other bits we want/need for gutsy?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: question.  We have a new hildon-desktop
<Peter_u3> Mithrandir, upgrade of libtelepathy
<bspencer> new = updated with latest from Hildon
<mjg59> bspencer: UTC+1
<bspencer> we pulled down 0.0.43
<Mithrandir> lool: have you had a chance to look at updating the hildon-desktop we have?
<mjg59> bspencer: But I've a dentist's appointment between 11 and 12
<Mithrandir> lool: it sounds like you and bspencer should talk. :-)
<bspencer> to try to sync with the closest to Hildon v2.0, though they have not yet released
<bspencer> mjg59: :)  ok.  I was wondering for Friday deadline :)
<bfiller> bspencer: looks like a ton of memory leaks and other nices fixes have been added to hildon-desktop trunk, so I'd vote for it
<bspencer> Mithrandir: what about also updating Hildon-desktop for gutsy.
<Mithrandir> Peter_u3: (I have seen you, just trying to get one thing done at a time).
<mjg59> bspencer: I'll still be around ~close of business west coast
<bspencer> give me an inch and i'll take a mile
<Mithrandir> bspencer: how confident are we stuff works afterwards?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: guaranteed
<agoliveira> bspencer: Famous lat word :)
<agoliveira> last
<bspencer> right.  well I know it poses some risk, but we can make sure that all of the UI stuff works together before uploading the group
<Mithrandir> bspencer: I'd like lool's input on it, since I asked him to poke at it, but he seems to have fallen asleep.
<bspencer> the group:  hildon-desktop, marquee-plugins, mobile-basic-flash, new theme
<lool> Mithrandir: No, I didn't look into updates yet
<lool> Mithrandir: I want to be able to test the changes to not risk any regression
<Mithrandir> bspencer: the new theme being the one from kwwii ?
<bspencer> our new hildon-desktop is available at:  http://moblin.org/repos/develop/hildon-desktop-0.0.43.git/
<Mithrandir> lool: any chance you could get that done tomorrow, or are you busy with too many other things?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: yes, the non-existent theme from ken, agoliveria and Intel.  The one we've been working /closely/ on... or will be soon
<lool> Mithrandir: The problem is not doing it, it's testing it
<bspencer> lool: we have resources to help
<Mithrandir> lool: as in, you need builds with it?
<lool> Mithrandir: I can take the time to do it tomorrow if you like
<bspencer> how can we best use them?
<lool> Mithrandir: As in I don't know how to test it :)
<Mithrandir> lool: ah, ok.
<lool> Mithrandir: I currently have no Xnest with hildon, nor a physical device
<Mithrandir> good point.
<lool> I would be more confortable if I could ensure that after the update I can still run the desktop
<Mithrandir> I or davidm can test it if you prepare the updates.
<davidm> True
<lool> Ok; I'm noting that as TODO then
<mdz> lool: your physical device is on its way
<bspencer> sweet.  sounds like another sleepless night of crunching
<lool> mdz: Cool
<Mithrandir> lool: prod me when you have something and I'll make my hardware churn.
<lool> mdz: I hope they find the "small" town
<Mithrandir> the 60k inhabitant hamlet.
<lool> bspencer: May I ask how the bzr repo for hildon-desktop in Launchpad and your git repo relate?
<lool> bspencer: Did you git clone the maemo SVN?
<mdz> lool: they both have "hildon-desktop" in the name :-/
<lool> Ah
<bspencer> lool: yes, then made UME specific changes
<bspencer> lool: we will look at the current differences and document them for you today
<mdz> we already had a branch of hildon-desktop in LP with our UME-specific changes
<lool> bspencer: I should be able to git diff if you git cloned the SVN
<lool> bspencer: Unless you didn't include any commit message and changelog entry, which I doubt, you don't need to document these thanks
<lool> bspencer: (but i'll contact you if I don't understand something)
<bfiller> Mithrandir: can you make sure the patch I posted to the list gets applied to the new hildon-desktop as well?
<Mithrandir> bfiller: -> lool
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  lool to prepare new hildon-desktop and friends
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to prepare new hildon-desktop and friends 
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  davidm, tfheen to test lool's updates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm, tfheen to test lool's updates 
<bspencer> lool: right, but we started with Hildon upstream.  So the mapping between the LP hildon-desktop may not be well documented.
<lool> bfiller: ntoed
<lool> *noted
<bfiller> lool: thanks
<lool> bspencer: Any other package that need an update?
<bspencer> lool: I just need to check that hildon-control-panel is where it needs to be
<bspencer> I don't know how this relates to hildon-desktop updates
<bspencer> btw, the hildon-desktop from upstream hasn't changed drastically from LP.  But there are small bug fixes.  just fyi
<Mithrandir> ok, moving on to libtelepathy 0.0.55 -> 0.0.58
<Mithrandir> Peter_u3: how big are the changes, and have you tested them?
<Mithrandir> Peter_u3: also, what else do they affect?
<lool> bspencer: So i'll only review hildon-desktop then; ping me if you would like me to merge hildon-control-panel as well
<bspencer> lool yes, will do that
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: ping
<Peter_u3> Mithrandir: they bring new interfaces and signals for avatars change and some other bug fixes. I didn't test yet.
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: pong
* kwwii has to head out and pick up the kid from basketball practice, anything else for me?
<bspencer> kwwii: agoliveira and I will sync up on his theme work
<bspencer> kwwii: chat with you sometime later before you head to sleep tonight
<kwwii> bspencer: cool, I will be online later and tomorrow as well 
<Peter_u3> libtelepathy affects moblin-chat only, from my view. 
<agoliveira> kwwii: We can catch up opn thsi later
<kwwii> supi
<kwwii> see you all later
<agoliveira> Bye
<davidm> kwwii, bye
<Mithrandir> Peter_u3: it affects empathy and galago-telepathy-feed and telepathy-stream-engine too?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: just a note that you and I need to sync today on what you need in gutsy.  hildon-control-panel with new hildon-desktop, moblin-applets settings, etc.  
<Peter_u3> Mithrandir, yes, all telepathy components and clients.
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: hildon-control-panel has a fix that we added way back, I think it's already in gutsy, and moblin-applets will be completed this evening
<bfiller> bspencer, Mithrandir: where should midbrowser source be hosted? It's currently on LP and in moblin..
<bspencer> ToddBrandt: ok.  then we should be in good shape.  I need to add 2-3 default values into gconf settings.
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy 
<Mithrandir> bfiller: -> asac
<bspencer> bfiller: midbrowser upstream is moblin, but LP always syncs with upstream
<Mithrandir> Peter_u3: can you get them to comment on it, and follow the procedure I posted on the mailing list?
<bfiller> bspencer: ok. seems like the LP is not in sync
<bspencer> bfiller: hm, ok.  I defer to asac 
<asac> bfiller: midbrowser source is hosted at moblin ... while the packaging (aka debian/ dir) is hosted on launchpad
<Peter_u3> OK, but it should be a long period to verify everything. I'll try to see changelog and diff, ok
<bspencer> Peter_u3: I'll try to read Rob McQueen today.  He could give us his opinoin
<bspencer> s/read/reach
<Mithrandir> just ask on #telepathy and you should be fine
<bfiller> asac: ok, thanks
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy. 
<Peter_u3> Mithrandir: get it
<Mithrandir> that concludes the agenda.  Anybody got anything more?
<asac> bfiller: maybe i have forgotten to push the latest changes to LP ... will look into this tomorrow.
<Peter_u3> bspencer, that's great. If you can reach him today, then I can get from you tomorrow morning.
<davidm> Mithrandir, if the new libtelepathy is good how are we going to deploy, PPA?
<Mithrandir> davidm: if we find it's good tonight/tomorrow, gutsy's fine, we can always just upload it to a PPA later even if we don't trust it yet.
<lool> For people from intel joining back the meeting http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071011_1709.html http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.log.20071011_1709.html
<davidm> OK, just wanted to make sure since we are likely to know before the next meeting in any event.
<Mithrandir> unless anybody has anything more, I think we'll adjourn.
<bfiller> asac: I was just confused becaue I expected to see the full source on LP
<bfiller> asac: not just the debian stuf
<bfiller> stuff
<Mithrandir> adjourned
<Mithrandir> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:33.
<asac> thanks all
* Mithrandir goes to find some tea
<lool> Goes eating dinner
<agoliveira> Just a reminder that I won't be working tomorrow but I'll read my emails from time to time.
<kwwii> join #ubuntu-artwork
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> bspencer_: just read your email
<kwwii> bspencer_: I have a template.png done...I can cut that up, create the gtkrc, etc and send it to you...then we need to identify the missing pieces and I will simply create them by hand
<kwwii> well, as the current install does not have an xterm and image-creator just b0rks I see little way to get anything done
* kwwii gives up
<bspencer> kwwii, got your mail
<bspencer> HappyCamp, do you know why image-creator is failing to build and image for kwwii 
<kwwii> bspencer: I get the error when I try to add a functional set
<kwwii> any set, and it fails
<HappyCamp> bspencer, no idea, since I haven't seen any log files or anything.
<kwwii> my system runs gutsy
<kwwii> HappyCamp: is there some log file I can give you?
<bspencer> kwwii, can you paste where you think the error is?
<HappyCamp> kwwii, the output from image creator, you can paste it at http://moblin.pastebin.org/
<bspencer> HappyCamp, can you give me access to the wiki?
<kwwii> I'll have to retype everything as the text in the popup is not copy-able
<bspencer> kwwii, go to the terminal where you started image-creator
<bspencer> it has the error in all the text somewhere near the end
<bspencer> should have similar text to the popup which tells you nothing useful
<kwwii> ok, it is running now...give it a minute or two
<HappyCamp> kwwii, You can also run image-creator like:  sudo image-create 2>&1 | tee output.txt
<bspencer> HappyCamp, how do I make image creator only go to ubuntu (not use moblin.org) ?  So that I get exactly what kwwii gets?
<HappyCamp> Use the version in gutsy?  bspencer 
<bspencer> HappyCamp, it is more than a configuration setting?
<kwwii> http://moblin.pastebin.org/4634
<HappyCamp> bspencer, I really do not know what is in the Ubuntu version.  Not sure if they only remove the build.list file.
<kwwii> at this point in time I would be happy to just get a usable image to dd to my usb stick
<HappyCamp> kwwii, can you paste a lot more of the output?
<kwwii> HappyCamp: sure...http://moblin.pastebin.org/4635
<HappyCamp> kwwii, though it looks like to me that you are not being able to do an "apt-get install".  So either your network is messed up, or you could try doing an apt-get upgrade first.
<HappyCamp> You could try installing the core-fset and then do an apt-get upgrade in the target terminal.
<kwwii> HappyCamp: I am totally up to date
<HappyCamp> kwwii, bspencer I see the problem: : E: Couldn't find package mobile-player
<bspencer> it says "can't find Mobile Player"
<kwwii> nothing to upgrade
<bspencer> that is not moblin-media
<bspencer> s/not/now
<kwwii> ahhh, upgrade from the core
<kwwii> now I get it
<bspencer> HappyCamp, where do you get your list of apps to install?
<kwwii> my network works fine or I would not be talking to you :p
<HappyCamp> bspencer, from the FSETs
<bspencer> when they updated the moblin media they probably didn't update the fset
<bspencer> HappyCamp, can he update the fsets with a configuration file?
<bspencer> kwwii, go here:  /usr/share/pdk
<bspencer> kwwii, go here:  /usr/share/pdk/platforms/mccaslin-lpia/fsets
<bspencer> edit base.fset
<bspencer> replace "mobile player" with "moblin-media"  (note the "mobile" vs "moblin")
<bspencer> then try again
<HappyCamp> We should let Mithrandir know that moblin-media has replaced mobile-player and he needs to update moblin-image-creator in Gutsy, or pull or latest version in.
* HappyCamp hopes that me saying it in IRC will let him know :)
<bspencer> but, if this is the real bug, then you should already be able to install "core" fset. 
<HappyCamp> Yes, kwwii should be able to install the "core" fset.
<kwwii> bspencer: that file does not exist on my local system
<kwwii> I assume that is in the chroot?
<bspencer> no
<bspencer> exit image-creator
<HappyCamp> kwwii, no, not in the chroot
<bspencer> on your local system
<bspencer> kwwii, it is confusing, I know.  This will tell image-creator to use a different package when insgtalling the fsets.
<kwwii> bspencer: there is no mccaslin-lpia just mccaslin
<bspencer> kwwii, ok.
<bspencer> that's find
<bspencer> e
<bspencer> HappyCamp, I updated moblin-image-creator, added a Developer Tools fset, and pushed
<kwwii> ok, let's see if this works
<HappyCamp> bspencer, recently?
<bspencer> HappyCamp, I also updated the mobile player to moblin-media
<bspencer> yes, two days ago
<bspencer> but I see no record 
<bspencer> something is wacky
<bspencer> :(
<kwwii> not sure yet, but that seems to have helped
<kwwii> it downloaded the moblin-media at least
<HappyCamp> bspencer, remember when you checked out that particular version?  You didn't do your commits starting from there did you?
<bspencer> HappyCamp, perhaps that's the rub
<bspencer> on my "bob" branch
<HappyCamp> bspencer, I don't see your commit anywhere: http://www.moblin.org/repos/tools/moblin-image-creator.git/
<bspencer> right, I'm looking at the git log here too
<bspencer> feels like I'm in the twilight zone
<bspencer> kwwii, here's what I do, your mileage may vary:   I open a target terminal and create a /root/src directory.  I then mount --bind  my source from my workstation terminal to this src directory ( e.g. sudo mount --bind /home/bob/src/ /opt/lpia10/targets/t1/fs/root/src/ ) 
<bspencer> Then I make changes from an editor started in the workstation terminal and "make install" in the target.  Then run ume-xephyr-start 
<bspencer> it allows me to make changes quickly and build/see them in the real environment
<kwwii> bspencer: my biggest problem is that my laptop has a smaller resolution than the damn mobile device :p
<kwwii> so I have to do all work on the samsung
<kwwii> which really sucks
<bspencer> man, that is a problem!
<kwwii> but image-creator works now
<kwwii> just dd'd a copy of the image to the usb stick
<kwwii> let me install it and check that a terminal works
<bspencer> if not, you can Ctrl+Alt+F1
<kwwii> that is what I get for wanting a tiny laptop
<bspencer> mjg59 tried this yesterday and complained about a broken terminal
<kwwii> yepp, that was the same problem that I had
<kwwii> you click on the terminal icon and it does nothing other than showing the spinner
<kwwii> well, it is installing now
<kwwii> time for sleep (1:22am here)
<kwwii> I get the feeling that tomorrow is going to be a long day
<bspencer> ok.  see you on the other side
<bspencer>  my long day already started
<kwwii> btw. who said that the deadline is tomorrow?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-12
<bspencer> no idea
<bspencer> someone in the mtg today
<bspencer> they might have said that Monday was the hard freeze
<kwwii> well, afaik the rest of ubuntu freezes really hard on monday
<bspencer> and I worked backward
<kwwii> right
<bspencer> that's probably the real story.
<kwwii> so we will still have some chance of fixing the hardcore shit on the weekend
<bspencer> yes, that could be
<kwwii> my wife won't like it, but mark will
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> I think that we can get most of the stuff in tomorrow and finish any extra pieces or major problems over the weekend
<bspencer> sounds promising
<kwwii> erm, so if I see a row of small icons with orange text underneath that is the html interface?
<bspencer> yes!
<bspencer> rock
<bspencer> try this:  can you get to a terminal?
<kwwii> yepp the terminal works
<bspencer> gconf-editor  (not sure if this is installed by default)
<bspencer> hm, not sure how to set the theme w/o gconf-editor
<bspencer> but if you set the theme to hildon-theme-mobile-basic, your buttons will get the nice background graphics
<bspencer> by default it is set to "Human"
<bspencer> I use gconf-editor, but I don't this is installed on the target by default
<kwwii> erm, not installed by default...what is the root pswd?
<kwwii> lol, just hit enter
<bspencer> the gconf key is desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme
<bspencer> strong security
<kwwii> do I need to restart after the change?
<bspencer> theme change?
<bspencer> no
<bspencer> shouldn't 
<bspencer> :)
<bspencer> background and theme should auto-switch
<bspencer> (if your background is slightly brown, go to control panel and pick black)
<kwwii> hrm, that did not work
<kwwii> ouch, the control panel does not come up either
<bspencer> fixable
<kwwii> but the darn keyboard does again and again
<bspencer> yes! I hate that
<bspencer> we need to turn off the keyboard autolaunch
<bspencer> I'll note it on the growing to do list
<kwwii> there is no menu at all, I guess that is intentional
<bspencer> Mithrandir, the keyboard starts too easily.  Can you disable autolaunch?
<bspencer> kwwii, just jumps home
<bspencer> if you are running an app, hit home and it goes there
<kwwii> right
<bspencer> to get the control panel, you have to install "moblin-applets"   ToddBrandt do you know if there is already a moblin-applets version in ubuntu ?
<kwwii> funky, I set the gconf key to hildon-theme-mobile-basic and is does not seem to change anything
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: moblin-applets 0.7 is already in ubuntu gutsy
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, kwwii is using the Ubuntu image and can't launch control panel from the UI
<ToddBrandt> bspencer: Do you mean that the controlpanel process doesn't exist or does nothing, or that the control panel comes up but with nothing in it?
<kwwii> ToddBrandt: it says "Starting Control Panel" but nothing comes up
<kwwii> the same thing happens with Notepad
<kwwii> everything else seems to work though
<bspencer> kwwii, can you run this from a terminal:   apt-cache policy moblin-applets
<ToddBrandt> hmm, sounds like a hildon-desktop of xhost issue
<ToddBrandt> I saw that initially when use ume didn't have permission to populate the GUI, try xhost +
<ToddBrandt> that was a  long time ago though
<kwwii> bspencer: it says "installed: (none)
<bspencer> kwwii, one other check
<bspencer> apt-cache policy moblin-notes
<bspencer> probably also missing
<kwwii> unable to locate package
<bspencer> ok.  so moblin-applets is in ubuntu, but not in the "full-mobile-stack" fset
<bspencer> and moblin-notes isn't in ubuntu
<bspencer> kwwii, apt-get install moblin-applets
<bspencer> then you should be able to start control panel
<bspencer> and notes is out of reach
<kwwii> yepp, that works now
<bspencer> these are the steps we're documenting for the Gen-Y'ers.  It's not just a mobile device, but it takes a lot of extra love and attention to get it going
<bspencer> if we market it right we're sure it will be a hit.
<kwwii> lol, no doubt
<kwwii> for some reason changing the gconf key does not change anything
<kwwii> but that is not the end of the world for now
<bspencer> maybe the theme doesn't have the graphics I think it should
<kwwii> also, I can close any app except the terminal with the X in the top right corner
<kwwii> have to kill that with control-d
<bspencer> check /usr/share/theme/mobilebasic/images/mb_gridhome*
<bspencer> there should be 3 png's 
<kwwii> yepp, they are there
<bspencer> whew
<bspencer> ok, then you are not setting the right key somehow
<bspencer> or there's another problem
<bspencer> did you use gconf-editor?
<kwwii> yepp, and when I open it again it shows the hildon-theme-mobile-basic in that key
<kwwii> in desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme
<bspencer> let me check something
<bspencer> oops
<bspencer> "mobilebasic"
<bspencer> the package is called hildon-theme-mobile-basic
<bspencer> the theme name (and /usr/share/themes/<theme>) is "mobilebasic"
<bspencer> and joila!
* bspencer can predict the future
<kwwii> lol
<bspencer> To tweak the layout, you can play with the values in /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/grid_home.js
<bspencer> this is where spacing and graphic image sizes are stored.  The only thing I know that works is changing the spacing between buttons.
<bspencer> but if you find a value you like as the default , I'll update it
<kwwii> hrm, changing that key to mobilebasic still did not fix anything
<bspencer> ok.  now you're yanking my chain
<kwwii> but anyway
<bspencer> we can debug it if you like
<kwwii> me? I try to stay away from your chain
<kwwii> :p
<bspencer> in the same file above is the callback for theme change
<bspencer> in /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/grid_home.js
<kwwii> enough for today
<bspencer> if you want you could put a call to "alert ('got here')" inside the "updateTheme" function
<bspencer> ok
<kwwii> I am dead
<bspencer> sur
<bspencer> e
<kwwii> I just put a package with lots of little pixmaps and an messed up gtkrc on my server
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/local_oranblak.tar.gz
<bspencer> ok.  I'll try to put that as my theme.
<bspencer> and see what magic happens
<kwwii> it might make a few text colors too dark for now, but I can fix that easily tomorrow
<kwwii> that should make your browser nice and unusably dark
<bspencer> ok.  
<StevenK> bspencer: Hi! I'm that elusive Australian working on -mobile stuff.
<kwwii> man, I know I am up too late if the Australians are waking up
<kwwii> night all
<StevenK> Hah. Night.
<bspencer> StevenK, howdy
<dholbach> good morning
<bspencer> an
<bspencer> anyone online here create images using image-creator?
<Pc_Madness> yep, but not recently
<bspencer> I was just wondering if you needed gutsy to run image-creator
<Peter_u3> bspencer, ping
<bspencer> :)
<Peter_u3> ok. Cool. One strange thing, my current desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme is NOT set to mobilebasic , why marquee get displayed correctlY?
<pwnguin> hi. i've got a question about moblin-image-creator. what's the difference between mccaslin and menlow, and does it matter on a system that isn't either of those?
<pwnguin> i was under the impression that ubuntu mobile would be compatible with most things i386, but if the images built are going to be highly specific in that reguard..
<Mithrandir> pwnguin: different kernels.  And yes, lpia is binary compatible with i386.
<pwnguin> hmm. moblin-i-c is a bit... unfinished
<pwnguin> oh. what i ran into is a known limitation
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<amitk> lool: what machines have hibernate broken? bug numbers? I have working hibernate on my Thinkpads
<lool> amitk: I didn't file a bug because I coudn't reproduce the same thing twice and because downgrading the kernel didn't help
<lool> amitk: My hardware is a desktop PC with a G33 chipset (an Asus MB, P5K-V)
<lool> amitk: One of the thing which /might/ be interfering could be the USB UPS, so I filed a bug on that
<lool> I spent too much time in trying to diagnose the issue and came out with almost no information, so I decided to cut the time drain
<lool> The only barely relevant thing I have is a photo of my screen with "Power down" as the last message and nothing happening
<lool> amitk: I'll he away for lunch now, but if you have pointers to a procedure I could follow to gather more information on my hibernate issue, that would be interesting
<amitk> lool: Could you see if you get something from the procedure at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend ?
<lool> amitk: Thanks
<Mithrandir> lool: I found the mesa problem
<lool> Mithrandir: Cool; would be curious to hear what you had to do when you're done :)
<bspencer> kwwii, ping
<kwwii> bspencer: pong
<bspencer> kwwii, howdy. I answer my own question
<bspencer> and the answer was "black"
<kwwii> hehe
<bspencer> we checked out your stuff. 
<bspencer> peter is sending you a status
<kwwii> I'll send you some new pics for the html interface
<kwwii> I think the main problem is that the menu text is too dark, or?
<bspencer> basically a package with your template pics and all the pics we want added
<kwwii> cool
<bspencer> I don't mind the menu but you were right about the browser 
<bspencer> kind of dark
<kwwii> probably the quickest way to get things done
<bspencer> and he worked on the tools too
<kwwii> yeah, I have talked to others who use a black interface and that seems to be a problem with the whole black thing
<kwwii> I think that we will need different gtkrcs for different apps
<bspencer> he's penning his email now, so that should be enlightening for both of us
<bspencer> yes -- I tried to get that to work
<bspencer> I would like to figure that out
<bspencer> in fact I played with the gtkrc files in the theme for an hour just trying to add a new one called "gtkrc.mid
<bspencer> "
<kwwii> are we going to try to use these tools for this release or are we just going to include pics for now and work on the tools later?
<bspencer> without luck
<kwwii> I hate gtkrc
<lool> Mithrandir: Apart of mesa, libgtk2-perl also seems to be missing on lpia; it failed to build in the testsuite; I see some errors that do not seem lpia specific though, and it also failed on hppa
<bspencer> well, Peter_u3 can explain what he recommends.  I think you use the tools to splice the template for hildon graphics, and then hand-tweak the other ones for marquee if you want
<bspencer> (or leave them alone ... they are all black too.. your call)
<kwwii> right, I started looking into tweaking them already
<bspencer> I had trouble setting the default gconf values for the theme and the background color
<bspencer> but hopefully someone can help me later today
<bspencer> when in doubt, the back is black
<kwwii> bspencer: one question - are the icons that jason made done directly on the marquee background or are they overlayed on the bg pic?
<bspencer> I put the graphics from jason in the theme/images directory and edited gtkrc
<bspencer> is that what you are asking?   
<bspencer> so there are 3 states for the images for buttons in the marquee
<bspencer> handled by the theme, not in the code
<bspencer> oh, and there is a background pic too
<bspencer> but the button images are currently the full width of the button
<kwwii> right, that answers my question
<bspencer> so when you press the button, the whole area changes to another image
<bspencer> ok.
<kwwii> I'll send off new pics for the html interface in a couple of minutes, after that (and lunch) I'll get to work on the marquee
<bspencer> kwwii, ok
<bspencer> I might be out for a few hours to catch some Z's
<kwwii> no worries...will you be available sometime over the weekend?
<bspencer> yep
<kwwii> cool
<bspencer> I'll be around and online
<kwwii> I'll keep feeding you with graphics :-)
<Mithrandir> lool: at the risk of asking "are we there yet"; how's the new hildon-desktop going?
<lool> Mithrandir: I'm building the lpia chroot
<lool> Updating hildon-desktop shouldn't take long
<lool> I'm looking at libgtk2-perl while the chroot builds
<Mithrandir> lool: I'm heading out relativetly soonish, so you might have to talk to davidm about testing it.
<Mithrandir> you can upload to universe, right?
<lool> No
<lool> Mithrandir: But I could perhaps someone else to sponsor it
<Mithrandir> if you get somebody to do it, then please, if not tell me and I'll get it when I get back online.
<davidm> Mithrandir, I still have limited access to chinstrap
<lool> I'll try wrapping it now and upload it so that you can review it before you leave if I'm fast enough
<Mithrandir> lool: sounds good.
<bspencer> lool, any questions for me about hildon-desktop before I take off for a few hrs?
<Mithrandir> davidm: we're just talking about installing some prepared .debs on your q1, you shouldn't need chinstrap access for that.
<davidm> Mithrandir, lool I'll be off-line for a bit, driving my wife to airport.
<davidm> OK
<lool> bspencer: I don't think so; any other package to look at?
<lool> bspencer: Err you pushed new changes today?
<lool> bspencer: Where should I stop pulling?
<bspencer> lool, I didn't touch launchpad version of hildon-desktop
<lool> bspencer: I mean in the git repo
<bspencer> hold a sec
<bspencer> right
<bspencer> http://moblin.org/repos/develop/hildon-desktop-0.0.43.git/   is the repo we updated
<bspencer> this is from the most recent upstream hildon
<bspencer> and small patches for UME
<lool> bspencer: Yes, it's the one I'm pulling from, but what exactly do I need to merge?  Anything I pulled right now?
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> there are 3 other packages that we are hoping to get updated today that we know will work with this version
<bspencer> mjg59 said he'd do those
<lool> Also, it doesn't look like it was created via git-svn, what was it created against exactly?  The tarball .43 in the maemo archive?
<bspencer> hm, I didn't create it, and the engineer who did just took off
<bspencer> I assume he started with a manual svn update from the archive
<lool> bspencer: I'll compare the initial import with the tarball theen
<lool> The git log starts with:     0.0.43 pristine files release
<bspencer> horaceli, will be back online in an hour or two after his dinner
<lool> bspencer: Ok; thanks
<lool> bspencer: Good Z
<bspencer> lool, and fyi.  we also are pushing for updates via mjg59 for  moblin-basic-flash, marquee-plugins, and hildon-theme-mobile-basic that we have tested with this version
<bspencer> ok.  I'm heading out
<kwwii> bspencer: just sent you the button pics with a note about the color of the background (not needing to be totally black)
<kwwii> sleep well :-)
<lool> *naturally* the .43 tarball went away from maemo.org, blah
<Peter_u3> kwwii, you there? I would like give you new package but it's too big, any way I can give you.
<Peter_u3> kwwii, don't care above message.
<kwwii> Peter_u3: hehe, ok
<kwwii> Peter_u3: in your email I see two "warning.html" which both say that some autogen.sh's were not included because they are not allowed to be attached, is that important for me?
<Peter_u3> Sure, I will send in separate mail soon.
<kwwii> cool, I am going out for lunch now, be back in a bit
<Peter_u3> kwwii, I'm heading out home. see ya
<kwwii> bye
<lool> Mithrandir: Hmm there are three ways conflicts with respect to the data/*.conf files which make the initial layout; I'm quite sure I'll break things
<lool> Uhoh there's a new build-dep on a package we don't have maemo-launcher-dev
<suihkulokki> lool: you can ignore that if you disable the maemo-launcher stuff from debian/rules
<lool> suihkulokki: Thanks; found that change in the intel tree too!
<lool> mjg59: Around?
<mjg59> lool: Yo
<lool> horaceli: Around?
<rustyl> morning
<lool> Hi rustyl 
<davidm> rustyl, do you know when horaceli might be around?  We have some issues merging code that perhaps he can help with
<rustyl> davidm, if he is not around right now, then he most likely will not be around till around 5:30 PST.  Horace works out of Shanghia
<rustyl> davidm, the last entry i see from horace was 5 hours ago, telling bob that he would be back tomorrow
<davidm> rustyl, thanks, I was not sure where in the world he was
<rustyl> question for the crowd.... is the freeze in effect yet?  Are we too late for pushing updates from last nights work?
<mjg59> rustyl: No, it should be fine
<rustyl> mjg59, ok, i see some more changes in moblin-media since i went to bed...  I am now starting to test them
<mjg59> Anything that's UME-only can pretty much skip the freeze until we're actually building images
<Peter__> Mithrandir, you around?
<rustyl> davidm, were you trying to find horace because of the conflict with the button image installed by both the theme package and moblin-media?
<davidm> lool, is have a merge issue, perhaps he can explain it.
<rustyl> oh... i thought it might have been something i just stumbled across
<rustyl> i forgot you said it was a merge issue
<rustyl> lool, sorry, for some reason i can see private messages but my replies are dropped. I'm afraid i will not be able to help with the merge since i haven't been working with that code base
<lool> rustyl: I guess you're not registered on freenode
<lool> rustyl: /query nickserv and identify
<lool> rustyl: Thanks anyway! :)
<Peter__> kwwii, you there?
<Inuka> amitk, ping
<lool> Mithrandir: If you're not out of time, could you give a shot to the hildon-desktop I just pushed?  It's the merge with the upstream branch of hildon-desktop up to 0.0.43 + one rev to match the beginning of Intel's git tree
<Mithrandir> I don't have my setup right here now, sorry.
<Mithrandir> Peter__: momentarily.
<lool> Okay; it will have to be tested before uploading to gutsy then
<Mithrandir> David can do that
<Peter__> Mithrandir, ok
<mjg59> rustyl: Let me know when you're happy for stuff to be pushed and I'll do so
<mjg59> I'm just going to grab some food
<rustyl> ok... i'm removing some images that are now in the theme (and are conflicting)
<mjg59> Ok
<kwwii> Peter__: heading out for dinner in a bit
<kwwii> Peter__: I can't seem to get the new stuff running
<kwwii> not sure what the problem is
<kwwii> erm, now I see it
<kwwii> when I restart hildon-desktop it rereads the gtk2_rc_files env
<Peter__> kwwii, ?? what's going on?
<Peter__> you should restart hildon-desktop. You'd better kill desktop then restart ume-gui-start.
<kwwii> first I need to see that the variable sticks I guess
<Peter__> anyway, can you successfully install layout and then ume-basic package?
<Peter__> If yes, then set GTKRC2_RC_FILES env and gconf key and matchbox theme pointing out ume-basic theme as I wrote in that mail
<Peter__> And then restart ume-gui-start?
<Peter__> no "?"
<kwwii> right, I did the other stuff but I needed to add the env to my .profile to make it stick
<kwwii> hrm, some things are black, some are not
<kwwii> erm, what is ume-bui-start?
<kwwii> gui
<kwwii> I do not see a process called that
<Peter__> it's in /usr/share/ume-common-config/, you should use latest ume-common-config package. 
<Peter__> kwwii, some are not black? which ones? 
<kwwii> the window frames and the menus are dark
<kwwii> but other parts are not, like the browser toolbar, etc
<kwwii> I am upgrading now
<kwwii> I have been afraid to update every day for fear of the nasty bugs which slip in :-)
<kwwii> but I just made this image late last night
<kwwii> now I see how much changes in so few hours
<Peter__> toolbar,it's black in my side. 
<kwwii> lol, now I have two marquees :p
<kwwii> you definitely want to kill the ume-gui-start before starting another :p
<Peter__> sure, kwwii :)
<Peter__> I suggest write a simple shell file to kill mb, hd and sampwood after you ctrl+c gui. kill -9 `pidof mb`.....
<kwwii> lol, dude, I am an artist :p
<kwwii> where is the GTK2_RC_FILES set?
<Peter__> just export it.
<kwwii> every time I kill hildon-desktop it gets reset to the old value
<Peter__> really? it's not that possible. If yes, you might have to re-set again.
<Peter__> So kwwii, as you talke toolbar of mid-browser, which parts are not black?
<kwwii> the toolbar is not
<kwwii> but for instance, the window which shows that the browser is starting is black and orange
<kwwii> none of the widgets themselves are black
<Peter__> toolbar totally not black?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> totally white looking
<kwwii> boah, but the gconf-editor comes up dark
<Peter__> ok, let's quit irc here to enter intel machine to double check. one minute
<Peter__> my chatzilla seems not accept intel proxy anyway.
<kwwii> ok
<smagoun> I'm having trouble with my LPIA image, it quits with the following:
<smagoun> GConf Error: Type mismatch: Expected `string' got `list' for key /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd/options
<smagoun> anyone know where that value is initially set?
<Peter_u3> kwwii, yes,it's black in my side, for mid-browser toolbar, totally black.
<kwwii> Peter_u3: I added that export to the top of ume-gui-start script and it is all black now
<kwwii> problem solved
<Peter_u3> kwwii, good news. great. So now can you check if any other issues in your side?
<kwwii> Peter_u3: yepp, I will have to tweak a few values in the gtkrc and finish up the pixmaps for the marquee but generally speaking we are *much+ further from where we were yesterday
<kwwii> of course, we will need to set all these values per default but for now it works
<kwwii> I will make a new template and therefor new gtkrc values and send them to you tomorrow
<Peter_u3> yes, you can ask bob for setting them default. Actually I wrote some in my mail. But bob might have more info.
<kwwii> I'll ping him when he wakes up :-)
<kwwii> time now to take my wife to dinner
<kwwii> thanks for the help
<kwwii> great work
<Peter_u3> kwwii, good. thanks. Time to sleep for me. welcome. One last questionl you are in German?
<kwwii> nope, I am american but I live in germany
<kwwii> ;-)
<kwwii> germarican I guess
<Peter_u3> hehe, cool. 
<bspencer> lool, ping
<lool> bspencer: pong
<lool> bspencer: (it was dinner here)
<bspencer> lool, it was nap time here
<lool> bspencer: Good that you're here
<bspencer> lool, I hear that we should chat
<Inuka> ping, amitk
<amitk> Inuka: I just replied to your email
<Inuka> amitk ,thanks
<Inuka> amitk, doing that results in the same error....    , even gives the error if I set the architechture to lpia
<amitk> Inuka: you got this kernel from kernel.ubuntu.com?
<Inuka> no, I did apt-get source inside a mcilin image....   I was not sure if the generic kernel from the there would just work. 
<amitk> Inuka: that should work too, so you got 2.6.22-14?
<amitk> Inuka: what machine are you trying to compile on? Are you trying this inside a lpiacompat chroot?
<Inuka> amitk, yes copied the config file over from /boot just to be sure, patched it and keeps on giving this. Tried it within a shell in image creator as well as on a physical machine
<amitk> Inuka: aah, that is your problem I think. Delete the .config and try the command I suggested
<Inuka> amitk, I still get the error :( , let me try a different kernel version. Thanks for the help
<amitk> Inuka: once you apt-get source a kernel, do NOT use the in-kernel build system. So do not copy over a .config, or do a make menuconfig, etc. Instead run the fakeroot command and if there are additional config options, you will be prompted
<amitk> Good luck and have a good weekend. It's midnight in my part of the world :) Good night.
<Inuka> amitk, oh ok...  let me clea nit up and start again....   , you too. 
<amitk> Inuka: best to delete the whole thing and do and apt-get source again.
<Inuka> amitk, thanks again will try that out
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-13
<kwwii> hrm, I clicked on the keyboard layout in the control center and now my machine is b0rked
<kwwii> x comes up but nothing else
<HappyCamp> asac, didn't we get moblin-applets into ubunut?  I thought for sure you and I worked on getting that in.  but I don't see it in the gutsy repo???  ToddBrandt  and I are confused.
<kwwii> how does one turn off the matchbox-keyboard all together?
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> kwwii: people over on #moblin can probably help
<kwwii> HappyCamp_ubuntu: thanks, I'll ask there
* pwnguin wants to know how kwwii got the screenshots he's finding on the ML
<pwnguin> all i get is a message telling me to update to get flash (i think something important was truncated)
<kwwii> pwnguin: screenshots?
<pwnguin> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/attachments/20071004/d18c9312/attachment-0001.png
<kwwii> pwnguin: don't worry, that does not appear like that for me either
<kwwii> :p
<pwnguin> ok
<pwnguin> apparently flashplugin-nonfree isn't available in lpia or something
<kwwii> what you are seeing in that screenshot is not the flashplugin
<kwwii> that is the html interface
<kwwii> which should come up by default
<kwwii> but the theme set is not the correct version
<kwwii> that might have been fixed by now
<kwwii> not sure
<Ward1983> i would like to know if its possible to seperately install parts of ubuntu-mobile, trough from within a (not ubuntu, jsut debian) debian system
<Ward1983> or as source, that would maybe even be better
<Ward1983> i mean this the way like you can for isntance install ubuntu-studio from a regular ubuntu, or the ubuntu studio look
<asac> HappyCamp: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/moblin-applets/0.7 ... failed to build everywhere but on i386
<asac> HappyCamp: ToddBrandt should have received the build failure notifications
<KenSentMe> Hi, the UME project is only aimed at UMPC-like devices, not mobile phones, right?
<Ward1983> i would like to know if its possible to install parts of ubuntu-mobile on a regular debian system
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, from what i've read that should be correct at the moment
<KenSentMe> Ward1983, ok, so openmoko would be the best idea if i wanted a mobile phone that runs on open source software?
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, there are also other options
<Ward1983> i know there's the familiar project, which runs on a lot of pda's, so it probably runs on some phone/pda combo's
<Ward1983> and there's also the greenphone
<Ward1983> ( http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone )
<Ward1983> all i can say is, research before you buy, try to find out as much as possible about all your options, and the pros and cons of each
<KenSentMe> Ah, thanks.I sure will. My Nokia E61 runs fine for now, but i am considering my options when it stops running
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, i foudn a very intersting page for you
<Ward1983> http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, i'm looking for a decent pda and i also had interest in the neo 1973, i went to ask in the openmoko channel if the software would be ready around newyear, and someone replied probably not
<KenSentMe> Ward1983, i'm in the openmoko channel now and asked the same question, but the answers are still vague
<Ward1983> the one that answered me said he was not 100% sure because its possible that they get extra funding or developers
<KenSentMe> I also found out that umts/3g won't be supported yet
<KenSentMe> That is something i don't want to miss anymore
<Ward1983> costs so much money
<Ward1983> 25eur/month with a 1GB datalimit
<Ward1983> (at least over here in Belgium)
<KenSentMe> Ward1983, in holland i pay 10/m for fair use policy (e.g. 50mb). It's enough to do some surfing and email while i'm on the road
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, do you have roaming? lol
<Ward1983> would be cool
<Ward1983> (then it also works in belgium)
<Ward1983> hmmm maybe i'll try it out, there's a laptop here from a collegue of my dad who quit
<Ward1983> and there's a 3g card with it
<Ward1983> with a KPN SIM in it
<Ward1983> lol
<Ward1983> (they are building a large project in holland so they needed internet in holland)
<KenSentMe> Ward1983, it's for my nokia phone, but it gets costly when i cross the border
<Ward1983> KenSentMe, so i better not try it :p
<Ward1983> is it possible to install parts of ubuntu-mobile on a regular debian system?
<Ward1983> so nobody knows this? :-s
* Ward1983 forgets about ubuntu mobile
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-10-14
<WorkingOnWise> Slightly off topic question. If no joy here, where is a better place to ask? If you didn't use exchange, is there an app to sync in linux? I have a WM2003 Smart Phone, and will be replacing it with a WM 5 device soon...I hope.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-06
<lool> Heya
<lool> ogra: Should be ok to use aufs now; new meta seems to have landed
<lool> StevenK: old post which I'm only unpiling now, but really worth checking out for you!  http://www.enricozini.org/2008/debtags/write-your-own-launcher.html
<lool> StevenK: And /you/ have the GUI part  :-)
<ogra> lool, lrm went in at 1am and i'm not sure they are all binary NEWed yet, but i'll kick off a fresh build and see :)
<lool> ogra: Oh right, we need lrm as well
<lool> Hmm some people manage to do some really impressive hildno themes; I wouldn't use them, but it's still impressive http://faceted.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/okuda_media_player.png http://faceted.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/okuda_home_photo.jpg
<lool> amitk: Hmm checkout 48249.192.168.1.252.1223295460.squirrel@webmail.dddgames.com
<lool> amitk: -Only detected 903888 of RAM (-mobile and the 8.04 MID image both find
<lool> 2063196 kB correct amount of RAM).  On boot the kernel says (via dmesg): Warning only 896MB will be used. Use a HIGHMEM enabled kernel.
<lool> ogra: Good report on Q1U usage on the list
<lool> (in above m-id)
<lool> StevenK: Another person wanting single click launch :)
<StevenK> lool: Tomorrow
<amitk> lool: config mistake. Fixed in local tree. Will push with next update
<ogra> lool, persia asked me on friday if we would like to have wubi support in the mobile images 
 * ogra just remembered that seeing the conversation in -devel
<lool> ogra: I see no reason we wouldn't :)
<ogra> well, then we need to add casper-lupin to the live set in the seeds
<lool> amitk: Not sure you got, it there was a netsplit just after my line: 14:47 < lool> amitk: Yeah, that's what I guessed; thanks for the quick fix
<ogra> the rest is up to the wubi mantainer
<lool> k
<Nanojit> Is bash completion working better in the latest isos?
<ian_brasil_> a common comment is about the size of the bar on the left
<ian_brasil_> in that it is too big
<ogra> it only appres like :) 
<ogra> *appears
<ogra> because the icons are so small 
<ogra> how wide would you like it instead ? 
<ogra> (its currently 80px)
<ian_brasil_> well the text does not really serve much purpose as you cannot read it anyway
<ogra> probably my thumb is to big :)
<ian_brasil_> just the size of the icon ..maybe 50px
<ogra> right, its still a first try image, fixes for that will show up in jaunty
<ogra> top panel is 48px 
<ian_brasil_> maybe go with that
<ogra> i'm currently trying it on 800x480
<ian_brasil_> also tooltips when mouseover icon would be great
<ogra> there the 80px are just perfect
<ogra> yeah, agreed
<ogra> we'll fix the wnck applet for jaunty to properly scale and have a gonf key to disable text 
<ogra> are there no tooltips ? 
<ogra> there should 
<ian_brasil_> ah, yes
<ogra> on 800x480 the 80px are actually perfect though
<ogra> i guess we need some code that applies different panel setups according to the screensize 
<ian_brasil_> yes, that would solve it...dunno how that would work with touch though
<ogra> touchscreen setus are anyway on a per device base
<ogra> *setups
<ian_brasil_> also midbrowser is not the easiest to use..how does one go home for instance
 * ian_brasil_ was certain there was a home icon in one midbrowser version
<ogra> it is in the menu we cant show yet
<ogra> midbrowser is built with the menu sitting in a hildon applet, we dont have any hildon stuff in -mobile 
<lool> 'night
<ian_brasil_> just found a bug on an acer aspire 1 ..hibernate just knoks the wireless connection out and nothing else
<ian_brasil_> s/knoks/knocks/g
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-07
<persia> lool, I found another workaround for the hda/hdb thing : if one selects the "Advanced" button from the final screen of ubiquity, one can select the target device.  Could you verify this also works for you?  I think it's probably easier to explain to users than the process with the ISO.
<persia> ogra, Didn't you solve bug #274786?  It looks solved to me, but I wanted to check before closing it, as it's assigned to you.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274786 in mobile-meta "ubuntu-mobile install should be less agressively preseeded" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274786
<ogra> persia, oh, sorry, forgot to close it
<ogra> done
<bspencer> lool: howdy.  is there a webpage for the next UDS yet?  What are the dates/location ?
<persia> bspencer, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty : we'll see you there?
<bspencer> maaaayyybe  
<bspencer> I'd love to go
<persia> bspencer, It's closer to you this time, isn't it?
<bspencer> yep.  although I'm not sure the distance is a factor
<bspencer> but it is convenient
<ogra> its the "no excuses allowed" UDS 
<persia> One thing that local makes possible, is to only come for a couple days.  I don't know that the schedule is fixed yet, but I do know that in the past people have come to only some days of a UDS to hit some of their key topics.  Depends on how much time you can take in December.
<persia> (and by "local" I mean "not subject to significant jet lag")
<lool> bspencer: Would love to see you there
<ogra> lool, bribe him with a free beer ;)
<lool> bspencer: There will be free wifi!
<lool> and free software!
<bspencer> wow!
<bspencer> and t-shirts?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> and CDs
<ogra> and we could promise you one free beer from the team petty cash ;)
<lool> bspencer: And free hugs
<bspencer> awww, ubuntu is just like one big geeky family
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-08
<crevette> hello ther
<crevette> e
<crevette> is there people frm the Bluez crew who wants to test gnome-user-share .
<crevette> while I packaged it, I can't have it working with bluettoh
<crevette> which is a little frustrating
<ian_brasil> are both ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-mid being built on cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ian_brasil> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/ 
<ian_brasil> is ubuntu-mid or ubuntu-mobile?
 * ian_brasil is getting all confused again
<ogra> thats mid, mobile is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/
<ogra> yes, both are build between 2:20 UTC and 3:00 UTC daily
<ian_brasil> ogra: thx..i will update the wiki page then
<ogra> (mid is the former, mibile is built afterwards)
<ogra> *mobile
<persia> crevette, What changes did you make?  Is this targeted at intrepid?
<ogra> persia, he commented on the bluez master bug 
<ogra> persia, asking for a new upstream instead of backported patches
 * persia should probably read email more
<persia> crevette, Caught up.  I'll try to do some testing from that soon.  Is there a specific test case that needs to be tested, or just basic transfer back & forth between devices, and browsing?
<crevette> hey persia
<crevette> persia: this is targeted for intrepid yes
<crevette> this is the latest version with Bluez 4.x patch
<crevette> persia: the test case it (at least) test the bluetooth functionality which mean sending files to the system running gnome-user-share
<crevette> the webdav feature was not touched recently in the code
<crevette> I've added feature upstream wich are neat, like notification on file reception :)
<crevette> for me bluetooth doesn't work
<crevette> it seems to be caused by obex-data-server
<persia> crevette, superm1 and slytherin were discussing options in #ubuntu-motu about half an hour back : you might check with them.  I know that o-d-s and g-u-s were under discussion.
<Vuokko> Hello
<Vuokko> is mobile version right for F-S biblo U50 /lifebook u1010 or should I just try to get on with normal ubuntu?
<Vuokko> this has atom 110 cpu
<Vuokko> I don't want to be rude rude but is this channel just for idling?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-09
<persia> Vuokko, No, it's not supposed to be an idling-only channel, but not a lot of people were here.
<persia> I'd suggest trying mobile for that device, if you're willing to run beta software (intrepid).  You can get a live USB image to test from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current/
<kavon> well not that many devices that are affordable can run Ubuntu Mobile
<kavon> usually around 1,000 dollars, only for people who truly need somthing like that
<kavon> i just bought a nokia n810, only $350 and runs a linux based OS
<kavon> pretty good linux in your pocket device
<kavon> but has ARM processor
<kavon> (i'm talking to Vuokko)
<persia> kavon, Well, that's part of why for intrepid we'll have Ubuntu MID (for pocketable devices), and Ubuntu Mobile (for the larger ones).  Ubuntu Mobile should be good even for the EeePC, which has gotten pretty cheap in some places.
<MoonshineX> Persia, do you know if intrepid works on an jax-10/Aigo device yet?
<persia> MoonshineX, I don't.  I know that I need to use the vesa video driver on my D4, so I'm fairly sure the same applies for that deviice.
<kavon> persia: :o so we'll have an arm compatible/nokia n810 compatible version?
<persia> MoonshineX, Given the form-factor of those, I'd recommend Ubuntu MID over Ubuntu Mobile anyway : although it looks really pretty, I think it's a little cluttered on that small a screen.
<kavon> persia: :D ubuntu MID makes me a happy person
<persia> There's nothing architecture-specific in Ubuntu Mobile, so that mostly depends on whether Launchpad provides ARM buildds.
<persia> For Ubuntu MID, there's still some hardcoded architecture-specific stuff, which needs to get split out, so Ubuntu MID depends on *both* Launchpad getting buildds and some code changes.
<persia> kavon, Ubuntu MID 8.10 is not that different than Ubuntu Mobile 8.04, except for version bumps of software, a couple software selection changes, and support for using one's full secondary storage.
<StevenK> And a shiny new launcher
<persia> Yes, and a very shiny new launcher, with *lots* more flexibility, and support for such strange use cases as installing more software from the repositories :)
<MoonshineX> was afk sorry
<persia> kavon, No issues.  Do you have an Aigo?  Would you be willing to test a live image and see how well/poorly the intrepid candidates work?
<persia> kavon, Sorry.
<persia> MoonshineX, ^^
<MoonshineX> yes
<MoonshineX> i would
<MoonshineX> imnot toconfident of the touchscreen driver though
<persia> MoonshineX, Daily images are available from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current
<MoonshineX> yea i was looking at those
<persia> I haven't tried today's on real hardware yet, but it booted in KVM.
<kavon> persia: nope i have a nokia n810 in the mail
<persia> kavon, Can't help you much with that then.  With luck, the mojo.handhelds.org project should recompile intrepid for ARM sometime after release, and there's a chance that you can just install ubuntu-mid (although you'll need to be tricky about the install)
<kavon> persia: maemo is good enough for my purposes, debian based too
<kavon> persia: most everything i would want to use has been ported already to it
<persia> kavon, heh.  That works too :)
<kavon> persia: (aka ssh, aircrack, pidgin, vim)
<MoonshineX> downloading
<persia> MoonshineX, Thanks!  I would expect issues with the video driver, but other than that it ought to mostly work.  I'm curious about things like touchscreen, hardware buttons, networking, etc.
<persia> (the networking for my D4 is not working very well)
<MoonshineX> d4
<MoonshineX> sharp?
<persia> Yep.
<MoonshineX> sweep..thats a neat gadget
<MoonshineX> sweet
<persia> Well, it needs a much better battery, and selling it as a "phone" is very odd, but otherwise I like it.
<MoonshineX> yea i heard of battery issues
<persia> Basically, the batter lasts long enough for 2 daily rides on the train, and maybe a bit of lunch (and that's with the *extended* battery).
<MoonshineX> does the installgive yoiu many options?
<persia> How do you mean?
<MoonshineX> aigo has 2 2gb drives
<MoonshineX> not much room
<MoonshineX> not sure if there are optional components
<persia> There aren't many options, but it ought fit.  I'd recommend "manual partitioning", and set one drive as / and the other as /home
<MoonshineX> im sure it doesnt matter
<persia> Not much room to add extra software, but if it doesn't work at all, that's a different issue.
<MoonshineX> yea good ideabut im moreon the noob side of things :)
<MoonshineX> brb in a while
<MoonshineX> thx!
<lool> morning
<davmor2> persia: ping
<persia> davmor2, Yes?
<davmor2> testcase creation time Dude :)
<persia> RIght.  I want basic ubiquity install tests.  That's about it.
<davmor2> Right how much of the installer do you got through and how do you get the image onto the device (these are thing general pulic/new tester will need to know)
<persia> For -mobile the installer isn't any different than for -desktop.  For -mid, it might have fewer questions, but that's not working yet.
<persia> The daily images are USB images.  You can boot them with KVM as a hard drive, or dd them onto a USB stick for hardware tests (dd if=ubuntu-mobile.img of=/dev/sdq bs=1024k)
<davmor2> Right so we'll leave mid for jaunty and concentrate on mobile then.
<persia> Well, drop the final 'k' if you don't have lots of spare RAM.
<persia> I expect -mid to be working in the next couple days.
<davmor2> will that be out in time for rc then?
<persia> The only outstanding issue right now is bug #280014, because some MIDs don't have keyboards, and it's not sufficiently integrated with the accessibility framework to allow entering authentication from the on-screen keyboards.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280014 in ubiquity "Cannot install with a blank password" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280014
<davmor2> and somewhere near stable
<persia> Yes.
<persia> It works now, it's just that it's not ideal for users without keyboards, as there is a password.
<persia> (or it would work if there hadn't been a problem with creating today's image)
<davmor2> I know there are a few dailies not biult
<davmor2> Right on to apps then
<persia> No app testing required this cycle.
<davmor2> right so just installer then?
<persia> cgregan did a lot of work recently to prep some cases for -mobile apps, but I'm not sure we have enough active users to complete the test cases in time.
<persia> For -mid I don't think we've updated the test cases since Hardy, and several things have changed.
<persia> Yes, just the installer for now.  As much as anything, I just want to get the images blessed as known working for RC, so we don't have issues with people complaining they can't install.
<davmor2> mid is for small touch screen device like the samsung q1u and mobile is for the netbooks correct?
<persia> The fact that the installer can be run is a sufficient test of the live image at this stage.  As we get more users, it matters.
<persia> davmor2, I think the samsung q1u works better with -mobile : it's not that small.  -mid is mostly for the Aigo MID, the Sharp D4, and other stuff not yet available retail.
<persia> Think something palm-size vs. something trade paperback size
<davmor2> persia: okay cool it's only so I can add a distinction between the 2
<persia> davmor2, I usually describe them in terms of screen size.  -mid is 4-6", and -mobile is 7-9".  I know someone installed -mobile on a 4.5" screen, but they are a little obsessed :)
<davmor2> it wasn't ogra by any chance was it ;)
<persia> Erm.  How did you guess?
<persia> davmor2, So, what do you need from me?  Is it more than just pointing at the existing test cases for the installs?
<davmor2> persia: no that should be it.  I'll ping you later when I've done and you can check it's right okay :)
<persia> davmor2, Certainly.  Either here or in -testing.  Thanks for looking at it.
<davmor2> no worries
<persia> I believe we have enough users to provide test coverage on hardware for -mid.  I'm less sure about -mobile, but there's a lot of traffic on the mailing list, so a call for testing may help there.
<persia> Do you know if any of the regular testers have hardware suitable for -mobile?
<davmor2> I got the acer aspire one pass on every one else
<davmor2> they all have vm though
<persia> You know about the issue with installing from USB images on VMs, right?
<persia> (I presume there are some usb-creator test cases)
<persia> I believe evand is working on it, but I don't think it's fixed yet.
<davmor2> persia: one last question on partitioning and warnings.  Do you automatically take over the whole drive? If so is there a warning screen to let you know this?
<persia> davmor2, It's just ubiquity.  Same options as for anything else.
<davmor2> persia: okay ta
<persia> davmor2, Hardy *did* just randomly reformat the drive, but that was a bug :)
<davmor2> persia: That's what I've thrown together for now I'll add links and stuff after breakfast but is that alright for now ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Mobile
<persia> davmor2, So, only five more impossible things to do before you eat?
<persia> davmor2, Looks good to me.  I presume that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/MID could essentially be a mirror of the same?
<davmor2> persia: Mid is basically the update for ume isn't it?
<davmor2> If so I can have a quick flick through the apps and update as appropriate and mid is done :)
<persia> Well, "ume" was never released, as there were two projects that claimed that name.
<davmor2> yes but the testcases are already in place
<persia> For -mid, don't bother creating app test cases for intrepid: there's not enough time to fix stuff that doesn't match the old cases.
<persia> For Jaunty, that would be a great step though, and we can then either invalidate the test cases, or fix the bugs, and get something more solid.
<davmor2> persia: no worries.  I think I already updated how to install it in kvm and I can't remember if Chris updated how you got it on the device or not, so I'll go and look at that in a bit :)
<davmor2> mobile is pretty much done now header links etc are in :)
<persia> Cool.  Thanks a lot for your help with this.
<davmor2> np's
<zender> hello i would like to install ubuntu mobile on my eee could you please tell me how 
<zender> helloooo
<zender> come on im sure its easy just tell me what should i use mid or image from the download section of the site
<persia> zender, download the image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current dd it to a USB stick, and boot off that.  If you like it, run the installer.
<zender> ok thx ill try that just now
<ogra> if you dont like dd, use usb-imagewriter from https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive
<zender> what does dd mean ?
<ogra> it does a binary copy of your image to a device (i.e. a USB key)
<zender> i was using unetbooting to write the image to the flash drive
<persia> zender, You could try that.  No idea if it works with the Ubuntu Mobile image.
 * ogra ponders setting up a gdebi howto for usb-imagewriter 
<persia> ogra, It would make sense.  Fleshing out the wiki for -mobile is something needs doing anyway.
<zender> 6 mins until i finish downloading the image
<zender> i saw at one point a ubuntu that would boot directly from ram.. which took seconds to boot up.. having only internet messenger and some games.. not waiting the hdds to boot
<zender> quick quesiton.. where should i install the bootloader? i dont want to mess up my xp so im planning not to install it on hd0
<zender> or can i ?
<zender> i know that in order to dual boot i have to do some magic tricks to get it to work if i plan on instaling the dualbooter on second partition
<zender> the bootloader*
<ogra> in the installer near the end there is a "advanced" button in the bottom right corner ... that enables you to select different options for te bootloader
<zender> where do you recommand to instal it
<zender> as a note i dont want it to mess up my xp partition
<zender> is it safe to leave it to hd0?
<persia> zender, The isntaller should detect your XP partition, and help construct a boot entry that allows you to dual-boot.
<zender> even if at parititoning stage i choose manual and install the linux on my second partition?
<zender> ok it oficially doesnt work with unetbooting
<persia> Right.  The partitioning check and the bootloader menu construction check are different.
<persia> You might report that to the unetbootin team : maybe they want to add support?
<zender> please tell me how to use image writer
<ogra> do you have an ubuntu desktop system ? 
<persia> Install.  Run.  Select an image.  Select a USB drive.  Done.
<zender> im under windows atm
<zender> i saw some tgr extensions
<ogra> well, we dont have a windows version yet
<zender> ok one sec to boot ubuntu on my laptop
<zender> i have eeexubuntu but cant get the wifi to work
<zender> and it loads so and so .. i want something QUICK for internet at univeristy
<zender> and i stumbled on ubuntu mobile
<ogra> mobile uses the same bootprocess desktop uses currently
<davmor2> persia: is it me or does mobile have a real issue raising the brightness?
<persia> davmor2, Not sure.  I've not tried that.
<davmor2> brightness down seems fine only up seems to be an issue
<persia> ogra, Does it work for you?  I think you've tested more than most.
<ogra> works fine here 
<ogra> what HW are you testing on ?
<davmor2> persia: ogra: it works it's just sluggish increasing brightness.  Acer Aspire One
<ogra> ah, well, i never tested on a netbook.... 
<persia> ogra, That slab you have isn't that different from a netbook : it just has a lousy keyboard.
<ogra> heh
<zender> am i supposed to download all 4 files?
<zender> for usb imagewriter
<zender> from your site
<ogra> no
 * ogra is just writing a howto ... 
<ogra> just click on the .deb file
<ogra> firefox will offer you to open it with gdebi
<ogra> click ok there ... and it should just install
<zender> omg im a bit emberessed.. i use windows bcuz as i said i dont have internet on my xubuntu.. and i was planning on copying the image and the usb installer on the flash and copying them again in the xubuntu
<zender> and taking it from there
<zender> i have 1 pc - windows and 1 laptop - xubuntu
<persia> zender, Just copy the usb-installer .deb to xubuntu, and open it in thunar.  That should work.
<persia> (you might miss some dependencies, but gdebi should complain, and I don't think there are any)
<zender> omg brb i will just boot from ubuntu on my pc. didnt want to loose connection with u guys
<zender> be right back
<ogra> there is pygtk and glade 
<ogra> should both be there on xubuntu
<persia> That's what I thought, but as I don't have a xubuntu installation, I figured it's better to be safe.
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
<persia> Woohoo!
<persia> Now we only wait on the installer team fixing the USB-install case, and we're golden :)
<zender> omg
<zender> it took ages to start irc on ubuntu
<zender> can you please give me again the usb installer link?
<persia> launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive
<ogra> zender, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
<ogra> just follow the howto :)
<persia> zender, Or give https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting a shot, and comment on the quality of the documentation.
<ogra> yeah, its still very short :)
<ogra> but should be enough
<zender> While trying to retrieve the URL: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting  The following error was encountered:      * Connection to 91.189.90.206 Failed   The system returned:      (111) Connection refused
<persia> Try with https
<persia> ogra, For better performance you might want to use the http://ppa.launchpad.net/ogra/ubuntu/... link rather than the librarian link.
<zender> with https it works
<zender> when clicking on the link to download the usb image installer i get a No Such Resource  No such resource error
<persia> zender, Grab it from http://ppa.launchpad.net/ogra/ubuntu/pool/main/u/usb-imagewriter/
<ogra> werid, worked a minute ago, but you are right
<persia> ogra, Maybe a referrer check?
<ogra> woah
 * ogra was just logged out
<ogra> evil wiki
<ogra> ok, link fixed
<zender> be right back to give you feedback
<zender> how much space does the ubunut mobile need in order to run ?
<crevette> hey persia
<persia> crevette, Hey.
<crevette> I have one question regarding Bluez-gnome 1.x
<persia> zender, Recommended minimum allocation is 4GB.
<persia> crevette, Yes?
<crevette> does the file sharing is really desactivated or only removed from the UI 
<crevette> because I was thinking for people like me who were using file sharing and how it impact the migration
<crevette> impacts
<zender> is it ok if i set the ext0 to 10 gb, swap 2 gb and rest of hdd make it fat so i can see it in windows as well?
<ogra> 10G is more than enough
<ogra> the install occupies 2.5G
<persia> crevette, Should just be removed from the UI.  Right-clicking on the applet still lets me browse other devices.
<persia> (but only once, and then it crashes, as you have seen)
<zender>  what should i use for paritioning so that the hd would be recognised in windows ? fat?
<crevette> persia: not browsing but sharing
<persia> fat32 or ntfs are probably best.  fat32 is probably easiest.
<persia> crevette, Ah.  Yeah, that functionality isn't in bluez-gnome anymore at all.
<persia> It now needs gnome-user-share, which is fine, except that people are complaining about the dependency on apache2.
<persia> I don't know the right resolution to this, and was hoping you had a good set of ideas.
<crevette> persia: Yeah I know
<crevette> implement a web server in twisted
<crevette> ?
<crevette> :)
<crevette> pulling out a web server is not ideal, but apache is not that heavy
<crevette> the only problem is that enable also the web service at system level
<persia> Yeah, but there's not really any space on the CDs already...
<crevette> ah
<persia> So trying to use something significantly smaller would be ideal.
<crevette> that's a different issue, I was thinking on system security also
<crevette> Ideal we need a user space web server
<persia> Yeah, there's that too, but I'm more concerned about CD size.  The server team does a pretty good job of making sure apache2 is fairly secure.
<crevette> which run *only* for the user
<zender> omg this is crazy.. the instalation doesnt let me to create a 3rd partition. says unusable space and doesnt let me press NEW PARTITION
<zender> after creating the first 2: ext0 and swap
<persia> zender, You might be getting hit by the limit of DOS partition maps to 4 primary partitions.
<zender> i have only 2.. and the last one i try to split in into 3
<zender> cant ubuntu mobile connect to wireless network without setup? 
<zender> unprotected ones
<persia> zender, Should be able to do so : it's the same kernel as for Xubuntu.
 * ogra thinks there is still a bug that makes it ask for a gnome-keyring password every boot
<zender> lol wifi didint work for me in xubuntu
<ogra> but thats supposed to be fixed in final
<persia> crevette, Would dhttpd meet the requirements?
<crevette> persia: I have no idea
<persia> crevette, OK.  My problem is that I don't understand why it needs apache2 at all.  Looking through packages, dhttpd is only 139k installed, and says "can be run from a user account" which makes me think it might be a good choice for this.
<crevette> persia: we could discuss with upstream who works also for redhat
<crevette> he is hadess on Gimpnet and freenode
<crevette> I'm in a middle on something else
<crevette> I'm finishing that and I'm back
<persia> crevette, OK.  I'm falling asleep and have a couple meetings left tonight, so I won't be much help until tomorrow.
<crevette> okay
<crevette> tomorrow is when for you ? 8 hours ?
<persia> more like 12, as I'll be attending meetings for the next 3 at least, and probably have to chase some stuff after that.
<persia> So, the Mobile Team meeting is starting in #ubuntu-meeting, if anyone is interested.
 * crevette goes there to see what look like an IRC meeting
<persia> Hurrah!  Successful -mid install with only two tweaks to the image.  The next set of dailies should be clean.
 * ogra applauds
<persia> It's really quite impressive the number of different places one needs to do the exact same thing for that to work.
<mrxmike> the normal ubuntu intrepid (kernel) does' not run on my atom based intel d945gclf 
<mrxmike> system, a bit sorry if you ask me.....
<zender> could you please tell me how to make ubuntu mobile to search wireless networks ?
<ogra> zender, if it detected your wlan card it should just list the available accesspoints in the little applet at the top right
<ogra> mrxmike, what makes you think that ? 
<zender> ogra if i type iwconfig i get no wireless extension
<zender> and the wifi led is ON
<zender> and in windows it works fine 
<ogra> looks liek the kernel has no driver for your card, do you know which card that is? 
<zender> no i have eee 1000 h
<zender> just tell me where to search and ill do it
<ogra> lspci should list all builtin devices
<ogra> open a terminal and type that in 
<ogra> then look for wlan or wireless in the ouput
<zender> no wlan or wireless only network controler and ehternet controller
<ogra> do you have a BIOS setting for the wlan device ? probably its switched off in the bios
<ogra> there is also the lsusb command in case your wlan device is usb btw
<zender> one sec to check the wlan
<zender> but if its set to 0 in bios
<zender> shouldnt that mean its off in windows as well?\
<ogra> likely, but it still helps to check :)
<ogra> do you have any HW killswitch on the outside of the case that could be off ? 
<zender> in bios onboard wlan is enabled
<zender> no man.. its a simple laptop.. and wifi led is ON everytime
<ogra> well, anything in lsusb ? 
 * ogra wonders where the wlan device is hiding
<zender> 1 sec its booting up
<zender> took a trip to bios
<zender> man but can't i rearange the icons position on the upward taskbar?\
<ogra> sure
<ogra> you need to unlock them first 
<ogra> right click and uncheck the "locked" in the contxt menu
<zender> ok i can move the one to the left of the clock.. but what about the ones on the right ?
<zender> sound and battery etc
<ogra> battery sits in the notification area 
<zender> lsusb doesnt show anything with wlan included
<ogra> you can only move the whole area
<ogra> volume control and brigntens are on their own, you can eparately move them
<ian_brasil> zender: did you put your device into suspend ever?
<ogra> well, thats a bit weird, so your system doesnt have a wireless card apparently :P
<zender> no.. i just instaled the ubuntu
<ogra> he means under windows 
<zender> well.. it should have one as in windows i can use it
<ogra> did you ever suspend it under windows ? 
<zender> what do you mean by suspend?
<ogra> some windows drivers have a bad habit to disable devices if you put it to sleep
<zender> close down the monitor sure
<zender> but the wifi its still working after its live again
<ian_brasil> windows can put your card into deep sleep so nothing else can see it
<zender> so what do you recommand
<ian_brasil> if you have a net connection (sorry i missed the first part of your conversation) try this command in a shell
<ian_brasil> sudo -C network
<zender> i did try to connect my ethernet cable but ubuntu didnt react in any way
<ian_brasil> oope ...sudo lshw -C network
<ogra> ah, finally
<ogra> it has an RT2700E
 * ogra wonders why its so hard to find any proper spec for that device
<zender> are you talking about my laptop ?
<ogra> yes
<zender> is that good or bad?
<zender> sudo lshw command not found
<ian_brasil> apt-get install lshw
<ian_brasil> it shows info about hardware configuration
<zender> could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/log - open )13 permission denied)
<zender> unable to lock the administration directory
<ian_brasil> sudo in front
<zender> couldnt find package lshw
<ogra> ian_brasil, he would have to install lshw from the net anyway
<ogra> which kind of doesnt work without network :)
<mrxmike> ogra: well.. 64bit intrepid desktop/server kernel crashes (of the livecd)
<ogra> 64bit ??
<mrxmike> yes
<ogra> atom is definately not 64bit
<zender> ian_brasil can i copy it from windows from internet somewhere? and unpack it in ubuntu?
<ian_brasil> ah, i thought zender was just debugging a wifi problem
<ogra> he is
<mrxmike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverthorne_(CPU)
<mrxmike> ogra: atom is 64bit
<mrxmike> supports full EMT64 set
<Nanojit> Those Atoms in netbooks aren't 64-bit :X
<ian_brasil> zender: you have an ethernet connection
<zender> im not sure.. at first i tried to instal a 64bit ubuntu and it didnt work
<mrxmike> "Instruction set 	x86, x86-64"
<zender> ian_brasil yes but not recognised by ubuntu
<ian_brasil> zender: the card is not recognised or you do not get an IP address?
<ogra> mrxmike, afaik silvethrone is a 686 
<mrxmike> it is
<mrxmike> with 64bit instructions
<mrxmike> check the wiki
<zender> ian_brasil if i plug in the ethernet cable nothing happens
<ian_brasil> try opening a terminal and typing sudo dhclient
<zender> the lspci shows a ethernet nad network controller
<zender> and
<ogra> mrxmike, well, then the wiki knows more than me all the atoms i'v seen and had in my hands yet are 32bit
<ian_brasil> with the ethernet cable plugged in obviously
<zender> :)
<zender> if i do that i loose conection with you
<ian_brasil> well try it and see what happens ..people here hang around for hours normally :)
<mrxmike> ogra: http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/24/atom_230_4.jpg
<mrxmike> EM64T you see that?
<zender> ok 1 sec
<zender> btw if i get connection can i activate it somehow?
<zender> so that i chat from there
<ian_brasil> when you get a connection just open a browser
<ogra> mrxmike, i wont argue with you, i personally have seen a lot of atoms in the last two years, none of them would have been 64bit capable but that doesnt mean they dont exist 
<ian_brasil> zender do this
<zender> be right back
<zender> shoot
<ian_brasil> reboot with the cable in
<ian_brasil> open a terminal and type
<ian_brasil> sudo dhclient
<mrxmike> ogra: well.. we can discus without 'having a fight' > i mean -> im talking about the "Atom 230" single core
<ian_brasil> and then type ifconfig
<ogra> mrxmike, and none of them had even a Z in its versioning
<mrxmike> it reports as 64bit 
<mrxmike> Z?
<ogra> you pointed to a Z530 
<ian_brasil> the first command will try to get a connection
<Nanojit> The 64-bit versions are  of the desktop variant.
<ian_brasil> and the second will show if you are connected or not
<mrxmike> ogra: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/b3nnylase/giga_atom/cpuz2000.png
<ogra> Nanojit, right, rarely found in any of the mobile devices :)
<mrxmike> that was a cpu-z thing i think...
<zender> anything else ian_brasil
<ian_brasil> well try to remember what the commands say ;)
<zender> wrote them down
<zender> thx
<zender> be right back
<ian_brasil> if you do not get a connection that is
<mrxmike> ogra: are you a dev as well? ;)
<ogra> mrxmike, http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/06/24/atom_230_4.jpg Name: "Intel Atom Z530" ... but no point in discussing that here, as Nanojit says, thats likely a server CPU, you would be better off to discuss it in #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu-kernel, nobody in this channel will have had his hands on a 64bit capable atom on a mobile device
<ogra> mrxmike, yes
<mrxmike> a 'server cpu'? :S
<mrxmike> ahh well
<mrxmike> you're right
<ogra> well, you wont find it in a UMPC or MID :)
<Nanojit> The eee Box uses it.
<Nanojit> I guess.
<ogra> with luck there might be laptops or desktops with it 
<mrxmike> no ok, and we are not gonna argue about silly things :)
<mrxmike> ogra: i bought a D945GCLF board with one of those atom 230's for 50euro
<ogra> Nanojit, the biggest i have seen in a eee was a dual core atom yet 
<mrxmike> (bundled)
<mrxmike> its for workstations/netops, not servers
<ogra> well, i doubt anyone hes done any work of integrating that into linux then, if it doesnt use a plain amd64 instruction set it simply might not work 
<Nanojit> mrxmike, you tried the daily builds?
<ogra> it might have some obscue enhancements that are not supported yet ...
<mrxmike> Nanojit: yep :)
<ogra> did you try any 32bit variant ? 
<mrxmike> ogra: im willing to do some work
<mrxmike> ogra: currently installing 32bit ver. all seems good ... so far.. its nearly done installing, bit slow though
<ogra> mrxmike, then -kernel is the right place :) 
<ogra> they will surely appreciate help if the 64bit version doesnt work yet 
<tonyespy> nxvl: have you already initiated the sync??
<ogra> ah, zenders eee uses a Atheros AR8121 apparently
 * ogra wonders if madwifi supports that 
<zender2> ok
<zender2> im in
<zender2> got the network to work
<zender2> what now
<zender2> ian_brasil, 
<zender2> ethernet is working.. not wifi
<ian_brasil> cool, some progree then
<ogra> zender2, so i found another spec, that says your wlan could be Atheros AR8121
<ogra> which should actually be supported out of the box 
<ogra> at least with the ubuntu-mobile image
<zender2> what should i type to check that
<zender2> ok lshw works
<ogra> well, lspci should show it actually
<ian_brasil> ]what is the output of lshw
 * ogra has to go now 
<zender2> lots of info
<ian_brasil> lshw -C network
<zender2> ok thx ogra for all the help
<ian_brasil> caio ogra
<zender2> 3 networks with a *
<zender2> one unclaimed one disabled and one ethernet
<zender2> u still there?
<ian_brasil> yes
<ian_brasil> which is disabled?
<zender2> do  you want copy paste
<zender2> description: ethernet interface
<zender2> a mac adress
<ian_brasil> paste it into paste.ubuntu.com
<zender2> done
<zender2> zender the user
<zender2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55753/
<zender2> and btw i cant get java to work
<zender2> or install
<zender2> from the get plugin option when accesing a java requiring site
<zender2> are you still there?
<zender2> just help me get wifi on
<zender2> if you can
<ian_brasil> i am here..i got called away for a second
<ian_brasil> well it seems according to the paste you do not have a wireless interface
<zender2> can u trust my word i have it in windows
<ian_brasil> what about the output of lspci
<zender2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55755/
<zender2> so?
<zender2> no problem man ill try to fix it myself
<zender2> thx for everything ye
<zender2> bye
<zender> im still around but on the pc
<ian_brasil> ok
<ian_brasil> what does lspci say
<ian_brasil> it looks to me like suspend has put your wireless card into a deep sleep mode 
<ian_brasil> so it is not visible 
<ian_brasil> zender: maybe try booting in windows to find out the name of your card
<ian_brasil> if lspci outputs nothing
<zender> so how do i do that in windows?
<zender> anyway im on my way to installing ubuntu eee
<zender> ok i found the wireless card
<zender> its ralink
<zender> the one that was unused
<ian_brasil> ah ok
<ian_brasil> so lspci ouputs something like
<ian_brasil> 0000:01:02.0 Network controller: RaLink: Unknown device 0302
<ian_brasil> zender: if so you need the drivers..a good tutorial for this is here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=132980
<zender> thx man ill try that if it doesnt work with ubuntu eee
<ian_brasil> this card works so you should be ok
<zender> ian_brasil
<zender> u there?
<ian_brasil> sim
<ian_brasil> oops..yes
<zender> man i just installed ubuntu eee and its great
<zender> wifi is so on
<zender> and i want to get it to work even faster
<zender> and they say to upgrade to this kernerl
<zender> http://www.array.org/ubuntu/
<zender> but i dont know what to press :)
<ian_brasil> you followed this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC/
<ian_brasil> if i were you i would do some of these tweaks first http://www.nerdlogger.com/2008/05/asus-eeepc-installing-ubuntu-804.html https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC/Using
<zender> no i didnt follow the first tutorial u gave me
<zender> what is the tweaking going to improve ?
<ian_brasil> ok..so that is sort of the canonical url for eeepc stuff
<zender> can u please tell me what should i do to instal this kernel? http://www.array.org/ubuntu/
<Nanojit> http://www.array.org/ubuntu/setup.html <-- Have you tried this?
<Nanojit> It seems pretty straightforward.
<zender> yup just wanted to make sure.. cuz i saw lots of things like updates
<zender> and didnt know if i had to instal those as well
<Nanojit> Updates will be taken care of if you do as that page says.
<zender> is netbook remix any good? does it reload faster?
<zender> boot
<FreeSoul> hi guys! 
<FreeSoul> does ubuntu mobile can be run as live?
<FreeSoul> or it can be just installed?
<Nanojit> It also works as a live system.
<FreeSoul> yohooooooooooooooooo :D
<Vuokko> it should be installed but it is also live system
<FreeSoul> yeah this is a great idea!!!
<FreeSoul> and anybody tested it on a Benq mid s6?
<FreeSoul> i'm gonna try it on saturday i think
<FreeSoul> i really hope it works because I don't like midinux all that much
<zender> can you tell me how to remove name and password requirement when i boot up linux?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-10
<filipegarcia> hello
<ogra> filipegarcia, so do you know what kind of device it is ? 
<filipegarcia> yes
 * ogra is currently only familiar with evtouch driven devices
<filipegarcia> it's an Lg L1730Sf
<ogra> can you pastebin your lshal output ? 
<ogra> to paste.ubuntu.com or so
<filipegarcia> ok
<bugabundo_work1> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<ogra> ah, looks like people made that model work with evtouch before looks good :)
<bugabundo_work1> where are you getting that info, ogra?
<ogra> google :)
<bugabundo_work1> !google ?
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about google ?
<bugabundo_work1> ehehheeh 
<filipegarcia> lol
<filipegarcia> i saw a few tutorials about it 
<ogra> all we need now is a proper hal parameter to match against 
<bugabundo_work1> on another thread remember that 7" laptop I mention? it won't boot from Pen, with u-mobile recent images! it boots fine from generic ubuntu :(
<filipegarcia> but when i try to change the defenitions in xorg.conf 
<filipegarcia> i have no results 
<ogra> jst get me the lshal output, then we can create a .fdi file from that and lets see :)
<ogra> bugabundo_work1, wth recent images you mean the daily builds ? 
<bugabundo_work1> yeah ogra
<ogra> hmm, that should work though, how does it fail ? 
<filipegarcia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56015/
<bugabundo_work1> I don't know... it will fail to boot from several pendrives I tried!
<bugabundo_work1> orther PCs work fine...
<bugabundo_work1> I thaught that laptop was tripping with boot from usb, so I made a new pen image from ubuntu using usb-creator, and was able to boot it just fine... took me while, but it booted...
<bugabundo_work1> ogra: it won't even get me to casper/ubiquity
<ogra> filipegarcia, create a file called: /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-itm.fdi
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56016/
<ogra> paste from line two to the end 
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> save the file and reboot, lets see if something hapens with it :)
<ogra> (and make sure to not have an xorg.conf file ! )
<filipegarcia> yeah 
<ogra> or at least no input stuff in it 
<filipegarcia> i remove everything i put there 
<ogra> oh, wait
<ogra> i pasted the wrong values
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56018/ these numbers are more sane for 7"
<ogra> it wont be calibrated proerly, even if it works 
<ogra> i assume :)
<ogra> bugabundo_work1, well, thats weird, since both boot varants simply uses syslinux
<filipegarcia> rebooting now 
<ogra> *variants
<bugabundo_work1> maybe some kind of parameter we need to issue on syslinux?
<filipegarcia> ogra: i can't see any differences from the previous calibration 
<ogra> well, i was aware that my handrolled image had issues, but the dailies should just work
<ogra> filipegarcia, but you see events ? 
<filipegarcia> by the way, the axes are switched 
<ogra> i.e. the pointer moves 
<filipegarcia> yes
<ogra> good
<ogra> which axes ? horizontal or vertical ? 
<filipegarcia> i guess both  
<ogra> lets try with teh y axis: <merge key="input.x11_options.swapy" type="string">1</merge>
<filipegarcia> when i go up the pointer moves right 
<ogra> ad that line 
<ogra> *add
<ogra> sorry, testing that will require some rebooting until we get the basic setup right ... then you can calibrate it 
<ogra> oh and at some point i'd like to see your lshal again to make sure it really uses evtouch now 
<filipegarcia> ok
<filipegarcia> no problem
<filipegarcia> so http://paste.ubuntu.com/56021/
<filipegarcia> and the axes are still switched 
<ogra> great, evtouch is used .... its only a matter of finding the right options
<ogra> both ? 
<filipegarcia> yeap
<filipegarcia> moving up gets the pointer moving right again
<ogra>  <merge key="input.x11_options.rotate" type="string">cw</merge>
<ogra> try adding that line too
<filipegarcia> ok
<filipegarcia> same problem
<ogra> <merge key="input.x11_options.swapx" type="string">1</merge>
<ogra> ?
<ogra> add that too
<ogra> its really a matter of finding the right combo now 
<filipegarcia> ok
<filipegarcia> the same
<filipegarcia> it's wierd though
<filipegarcia> the point doesn't look like is in the same position every time e put my finger in the same place
<filipegarcia> pointer
<filipegarcia> i don't know if i explain myself 
<ogra> yes, thats the broken calibration, though the axis swapping is weird
<ogra> seems on kernel level its using usbtouchscreen
<ogra> that has an option: swap_xy
<ogra> add a line to /etc/modprobe.d/options
<filipegarcia> upper right corner is ok but upper left corner is down right corner
<ogra> options usbtouchscreen swap_xy=1
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> see if that cchanges the behavior somehow after rebooting
<lool> persia: Didn't realize we had a release meeting today; usually I get an email :)  if you have a list of issues already, that'd be best
<filipegarcia> it changed to up=down left=right
<persia> lool, I'm currently only tracking 280014 and the yet unfiled casper change for -mid.  I've not reviewed the list of bugs against our packages.  Is midbrowser working again?
<lool> persia: Do you think I can close https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mobile-meta/+bug/274832 at this point, or should I just fix commit it?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274832 in mobile-meta "no linux-restricted-modules for lpia flavour" [High,Triaged] 
<lool> I think it's in, so fix released would fit, but didn't verfy myself
<lool> persia: I think we can now close https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mobile-meta/+bug/274753
<persia> Yes, it's Fix Released.  I don't know if the fix solves networking on the Q1 (can't test).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274753 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed with ubuntu-mobile (dup-of: 274752)" [Undecided,New] 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274752 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed for ubuntu-mid and ubuntu-mobile flavours" [Critical,Fix released] 
<persia> I just considered that closed as a dup.  It can be explicitly closed if you like.
<ogra> filipegarcia, ok, is that cosistent ? 
<filipegarcia> yes 
<ogra> then drop the three lines we added to the .fdi again
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> and see if it moves in the right directions
<ogra> dont care about accuracy yet, thats calibration we'll tackle later
<ogra> only the axes are intresting
<filipegarcia> same thing
<filipegarcia> up=down left=right
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> you dropped the three lines ? 
<ogra> and rebooted ? 
<filipegarcia> yea
<filipegarcia> both
<ogra> if you add the swapy line again, does anything change ? 
<filipegarcia> will see 
<filipegarcia> same thing
<lool> persia: Err right, it's a dup; got it from last release meeting's log
<ogra> still up=down left=right
<ogra> ?
<filipegarcia> yeap
<lool> persia: Looks like all bugs mentionned at last release meeting are fix released, which is nice!
<ogra> then drop the module option again from /etc/modprobe.d/options
<ogra> that apparently didnt help
<lool> persia: So nothing particular to report to release team, apart that we'd like to switch -mid to --automatic mode?
<filipegarcia> well now is ip=down
<filipegarcia> before that was up=right
<persia> Well, we'd like to switch to --automatic mode *after* we sort 280014.  That's it for me, but I've only been playing with the installer, and haven't done much usage testing.
<ogra> right, so drop the module setting, and add the rotate line back
<ogra> that should keep the axes correct, but rotate clockwise 
<filipegarcia> and still keep the swapy ??
<ogra> no, drop all swap things
<ogra> only keep the rotate
<filipegarcia> ok
<persia> lool, Have you been using -mid?  Do you know if we've any other showstoppers?
<filipegarcia> and now up=right
<lool> persia: I can't think of any
<ogra> filipegarcia, and right ? 
<lool> persia: jax10 is poorly supported, but I think that's acceptable, and I need to retest with lrm
<filipegarcia> right=up
<persia> lool, OK.  Then I think we're good.  There might be issues with testing, but as RC is really our first big round of testing, that's only to be expected.
<ogra> weird
<persia> Yeah.  D4 too :(
<ogra> so down = left, left = down i guess
<filipegarcia> yes 
 * ogra tries to imagine what filipegarcia is seeing :)
<ogra> my brain melts :)
<filipegarcia> lol
<ogra> change "cw" to "ccw" in the rotate line 
<filipegarcia> ok
<persia> lool, 281100 is probably interesting to you, but already on the list.
<filipegarcia> same thing 
<filipegarcia> up=right
<filipegarcia> down=left
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> can i see your current lshal again  =
<ogra> ?
<filipegarcia> shure
<filipegarcia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56027/
<bugabundo_work1> you guys still at it ?? uau
 * ogra wonders why the rotate doesnt do anything at all
<ogra> ccw should have reversed the cw behavior
<bugabundo_work1> guys good luck. let me know how it goes.
<bugabundo_work1> time for me to go
<bugabundo_work1> [[]]
<filipegarcia> can i try the rotation in the modprobe ?
<bugabundo_work1> The Purple 8 Ball says:  It's possible
<ogra> nope, the kernel driver doesnt have a rotate option
<ogra> oh, wait !
<filipegarcia> bugabundo_work1: ok, and again. thank you 
<ogra> you might need to capitalize the CW or CCW
<ogra> try that
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> big letters :)
<bugabundo_work1> The Purple 8 Ball says:  It's possible
<filipegarcia> i put CW and is now up=right so changed to CCW
<filipegarcia> but
<filipegarcia> same thing
<ogra> still up=right ? 
<filipegarcia> yes
<filipegarcia> with CW and CCW
 * ogra looks at the driver code
<filipegarcia> i didn't thought that this gave so many work 
<ogra> so the code definately looks for capitalized CW/CCW
<ogra> try to make : rotate being Rotate 
<ogra> in the .fdi file
<ogra> with a big R
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> so i doubt that will change a thing 
<filipegarcia> by the way, what's the difference between using the fdi and the xorg.conf ??
<filipegarcia> yeah same thing 
<filipegarcia> up=right
<ogra> xorg.conf mostly ignores input settings by default nowadays, and the new calibration tool uses hal
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> but it looks to me like the rotation isnt respected at all
<ogra> which is weird, since i find it in all documents for that device
<ogra> and it looks like its being used in the code as well
<ogra> if you add the swapX (not Y) how does it change ? 
<ogra> (leave CW in)
<filipegarcia> in others tutorials the where using rotate cw and swapy =1 
<filipegarcia> will try that
<ogra> yes, we tried that first "rotate cw and swapy =1 " :)
<ogra> bt you said it didnt change the axes
<filipegarcia> yeap 
<filipegarcia> can it be because swapy is not swapY ?
<ogra> shouldnt, but try it
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> it shouldnt make any difference if the variables are capitalized or not
<ogra> for the values it might though
<ogra> but try it, you have the device :)
<ogra> i cant help much apart from giving you the options ...
<filipegarcia> well 
<filipegarcia> swapX and swapY is the same
<filipegarcia> up=right
<filipegarcia> down=left
<ogra> try them capitalized
<ogra> SwapX or SwapY
<filipegarcia> ohh
<filipegarcia> ok
<ogra> but i doubt it will change a thing
<filipegarcia> so swapy=Swapy=SwapY=swapY
<filipegarcia> also with the X
<filipegarcia> the same
<filipegarcia> up=right
<ogra> and left right didnt change either ? 
<filipegarcia> nop
<ogra> i'm out of ideas :(
<ogra> the rotate option should definately have an effect ... it doesnt though
<filipegarcia> this guy is using the same monitor 
<filipegarcia> http://ihc.silverskar.se/2007/10/making-l1730sf-touchscreen-work-on.html
<filipegarcia> but i guess is an older ubuntu version
<ogra> well, thats what i was looking at first :)
<filipegarcia> yeah
<ogra> Option "MinX" "295"
<ogra> Option "MinY" "200"
<ogra> Option "MaxX" "3815"
<ogra> Option "MaxY" "3948"
<ogra> Option "ReportingMode" "Raw"
<ogra> Option "Emulate3Buttons"
<ogra> Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50"
<ogra> Option "SendCoreEvents" "On"
<ogra> Option "Rotate" "cw"
<ogra> Option "SwapY" "1"
<ogra> and we did set all these values exactly the same way
<ogra> and apparently your lshal output reflects it
<filipegarcia> yes
<ogra> the prob is that the rotate is ignored 
<filipegarcia> in my lshal it talk about usbtouchscreen driver
<ogra> yes
<filipegarcia> is it normal
<ogra> alias:          mtouchusb
<ogra> alias:          itmtouch
<ogra> alias:          touchkitusb
<ogra> thats what modinfo usbtouchscreen reports
<ogra> itmtouch is included in it, which is what your touchscreen uses
<ogra> and at least the swap_xy parameter worked
<ogra> so the kernel driver is correct
<filipegarcia> i see
<ogra> can you for laughs run the calibration tool and see what it does with your axes ? 
<ogra> its in System->Administration
<ogra> the code seems to forcefully ignore rotate in calibration mode, i wonder if it behaves different
<filipegarcia> i try before the touchcal
<filipegarcia> but i have nothing in system->admin
<ogra> you are on the ubuntu-mobile image, right ? 
<filipegarcia> no
<ogra> erm
<filipegarcia> :$
<filipegarcia> sorry
<ogra> but you are on intrepid ? 
<filipegarcia> in ubuntu 8.04 LTS
<ogra> gah
<ogra> well, then all we did cant work
<ogra> the new calibration tool and hal input stuff is only in intrepid
<ogra> sigh, i should have asked that first ... sily me
<persia> at least it makes sense now :)
<filipegarcia> i told to bugabundo that 
<filipegarcia> i should told to you also
<ogra> persia, yeah, after 3h :P
<filipegarcia> sorry
<ogra> nah, my fault 
<ogra> i sholdnt make assumptions :)
<ogra> especially not while supporting people
<filipegarcia> specially people that don't understand a thing you are supporting 
<filipegarcia> what you are supporting 
<ogra> intrepid :)
<ogra> (8.10)
<filipegarcia> should i try that?
<ogra> only that has the hal-input fixes and new evtouch calibration
<Celtiore> hi from france
<Celtiore> nothing new about aigo p8860 or compal jax10 about touchscreen ?
<ogra> filipegarcia, if you like to :) 8.10 will release end of the month and is largely stable 
<filipegarcia> ok
<persia> Celtiore, I think it's still not working :(  You might try the latest daily, but I think there's a driver issue.
<ogra> yeah, no free driver for the touchscreen
 * ogra would love a jax10 to actually poke on that 
<Celtiore> i see
<filipegarcia> well the work day is over now. will download in the weekend and on monday will tell you something
<filipegarcia> thank so much for you time ogra
<Celtiore> persia, can you give me the weblink for the daily build ?
<Celtiore> i don't have save it
<persia> Celtiore, /topic
<Celtiore> lol
<Celtiore> thanks you
<ogra> filipegarcia, well, thanks for the lshal data, i can at least add a file for your device to intrepid 
<ogra> filipegarcia, and indeed feedback for intrepid is appreciated ;)
<Celtiore> i need mid or mobile ? for aigo p8860 ? :p
<filipegarcia> ok
<filipegarcia> you will hear from me again on monday :)
<filipegarcia> thank you
<ogra> cool, thanks :)
<persia> Celtiore, I'd recommend -mid for the Aigo, but you might like -mobile.
<Celtiore> ok thanks you
<Celtiore> persia, mid img : fatal server error / no screens found !
<persia> Yeah, it doesn't support the pouslbo video chipset.  Unfortunately, the drivers don't work with the intrepid version of X.
<Celtiore> lol
<persia> You can force it to use the vesa driver.  One way to do that is to add 'Driver "vesa"' to the display device setting in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.
<Celtiore> i'm very lucky
<Celtiore> touchscreen driver closed
<persia> You can get there with Alt-F2, and stop it switching back to the error with `sudo stop session`
<Celtiore> thanks you i try later
<persia> Once you've editing xorg.conf, you can use `sudo start session` to bring up the desktop.  I have to do the same on my D4 :(
<Celtiore> thanks you
<persia> Celtiore, No, thanks for helping test.  You're one of the primary testers on real hardware at this point, as not too many people have MIDs on which Ubuntu can be installed.
 * ogra hopes Celtiore at least paid a decent price :P
<ogra> but by own experience the non working HW is usually the most expensive :)
<persia> ogra, Unfortunately commonly.  Mine was cheap, but it came with strings.
<Celtiore> persia, working, wrong resolution but working
<Celtiore> i have another question
<Celtiore> where is the application who display all the icons on the desktop ?
<persia> What's that?
<persia> It's called kourou.
<Celtiore> thanks you
<Nanojit> Is there something like a changelog for the ubuntu mobile images?
<persia> Nanojit, Not really.  There are changelogs for the individual packages, but the daily images are just snapshots of the archive state at the same time every day.
<Nanojit> Ok...
<persia> Nanojit, Are you looking for something specific?
<persia> Or just a list of changes on a regular basis?
<Nanojit> persia, Nope.. Just wanted to know if there was some kind of changelog with highlights from one snapshot to the other.
<persia> No.  There's the intrepid-changes list that describes all the changes happening to intrepid over time, but nothing flavour-specific.
<Nanojit> What's that list's url?
<persia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Intrepid-changes
<Nanojit> Thanks.
<persia> Be warned, it's not exactly a low-traffic list.  Set up your filter *before* you subscribe.
<persia> (well, some days it's low traffic, but sometimes you'll get 100 emails in 5 minutes)
<Nanojit> I'll just browse the online archives. :p
<persia> Nanojit, That works :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-11
<FreeSoul> hi guys :)
<FreeSoul> I'm trying ubuntu-mid (stable version and 20081010.1) on my Benq mis s6 but afterbooting both the version can't run X server because it can't find screen. May be a good idea to use mid-8.04.1-menlow-install-usb.img, install ubuntu and then edit config files? and during install does it requires an hardware keyboard? benq mid s6 has no keyboard. Many thanks! any idea is wellcome because I'm getting bad with Midinux . Thanks
<FreeSoul> anybody?
<Burgundavia> FreeSoul: hmm?
<FreeSoul> i mean the X.org server can't find the screen, this is my problem
<FreeSoul> and since Benq s6 has no keyboard i can't edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf in terminal
<FreeSoul> Burgundavia: any ideas? :)
<Burgundavia> no idea when it is almost 2am
<Burgundavia> but do file a bug
<FreeSoul> Burgundavia: lol it's 11 am here :)
<Burgundavia> right, you are somewhere in Europe
<Burgundavia> you are also much more likely to find somebody on monday
<persia> FreeSoul, There's no Pouslbo video driver in intrepid, unfortunately.  Not so sure why the menlow install image didn't work for you.
<FreeSoul> persia: oh :-/ 
<FreeSoul> wait a moment.... i just had a look at midinux xorg.conf and it uses vesa as video driver. Does it means that that damn fools are selling benq mid without any driver for pouslbo chipset ?!?!?
<persia> Heh.  Could be :)
<FreeSoul> this may explay why all hd video wont play!!!
<persia> Perhaps :)
<FreeSoul> omg...... /me is gonna kill someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<FreeSoul> i can't belive they are so fool!
<FreeSoul> uff
<FreeSoul> sorry for my not so polite reaction but it's frustarting to spend 430 euro for a device that neither uses 100% of hardware
<persia> If you use the intrepid image, just add 'Driver "vesa"' to the video section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and it ought display, but perhaps not at the ideal resolution.
<FreeSoul> i see. The problem is that i can't edit xorg.conf since i've no hw keyboard 
<persia> I understand entirely.
<persia> You'll need a USB keyboard.
<FreeSoul> i'm downloading the mic. May it be usefull?
<FreeSoul> i've a usb keyboard but only one usb port on the mid.... so or i use usb key to boot or i use usb keyboard.
<FreeSoul> i've no usb hub
<Celtiore> hi FreeSoul 
<FreeSoul> hi Celtiore :)
<Celtiore> persia, now we are 2 poor guys :)
<FreeSoul> but, is there anybody developing a pouslbo driver ?
<FreeSoul> i mean, not here, in the world
<Celtiore> persia, i confirm :
<persia> I hear Intel is working on something, but haven't heard any real schedule.
<Celtiore> If you use the intrepid image, just add 'Driver "vesa"' to the video section of /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and it ought display, but perhaps not at the ideal resolution.
<persia> Yeah :/
<persia> For me, it's a lower resolution
<Celtiore> i do a try yesterday
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, at this moment the only way is to use ubuntu 7.10 with all correct drivers
<FreeSoul> no wait vesa line is commented. Midinux uses driver "psb" that could be the right one
<Celtiore> but the prob is, we can't have update 
<persia> There was a working psb driver in 8.04 too, but you needed to use the special repository.
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: ok, then i prefer to wait...
<Celtiore> yep same here
<Celtiore> i do a try with ubuntu 8.04.1, we can put the marvell driver to activate wifi, but we need to use usb mouse
<persia> The touchscreen didn't work?  I thought someone fixed that.  Hrm.
<Celtiore> if you want i can explain to you the howto
<FreeSoul> and what for the issue that screen is not found by X server?
<Celtiore> the touchscreen working randomly, like wrong calibration
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: i'm not an ubuntu user so, let me ask a stupid question... are updataes avialable for ubuntu 8.0.4?
<Celtiore> with 8.04.1 screen is correctlydetected
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: if there's a live version i'd like to try 8.04.1
<FreeSoul> (do i stop the MIC download?)
<Celtiore> wait
<Celtiore> i search info, don't remember 
<persia> It's possible to update the 8.04.1 images, but due to the way the image exists, there's a limit, and eventually you'll need to reinstall with 8.04.2
<persia> Alternately, if you'd like to help hack 9.04, it needs all the help it can get, and you guys have the hardware you want to work (it's different than my hardware, for instance)
<FreeSoul> mid-8.04.1-menlow-install-usb.img i've tryed this too but... lol how can i install without an hw keyboard? :)
<persia> That image should just install and auto-overwrite without a keyboard, or do you need to press Enter?
<FreeSoul> persia: well when i say it's install only i swithed everything off but i suspect it will ask for an enter
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, the prob is : aigo use 2 SSD
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: lol here there's only one
<Celtiore> i don't know how your benq can support the ubuntu installation
<persia> aigo is probably tricky.  benq might work, if it's just one SSD.
<FreeSoul> persia: sure it's only onw ssd of 2gb
<Celtiore> i think, we can soon have the correct driver, with aigo,benq,gigabyte,compal i suppose one of vendor ask the code,
<FreeSoul> and by default they let the user use a 250mb partition (ridicolous!)
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: i'm in contact with Steve of UMPCPortal that is in contact with Benq mid s6 product manager to report him all shit (sorry for the dab word, i can't find anything more appropriate) that i find in the mid... if you tell me what is exactly needed i can drop him a mail and pray :)
<persia> Yeah, it's getting an open driver that's the critical step.  If you hear of one, even one that's binary-only and allows redistribution, and works, please make lots of noise here.  We can ask for it to be included (assuming the archive-admins permit the license).
<persia> FreeSoul, Critical things are really the touchscreen and the video driver.
<Celtiore> and the marvell for wifi, persia 
<Celtiore> yesterday, when i try the last build, it don't find the network
<FreeSoul> persia: i ask right now. As far as I know it can't be usefull without requiring infinite time of work but i've benq mid s6 recovery image... can it help? the kernel of course is compiled but it works... and has all needed drivers.
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, which kernel version do you have ?
<FreeSoul> wait
<persia> FreeSoul, The issue is mostly about the license.  Do you have a license to distribute it?  Do you have a license to allow others to distribute it?
<Celtiore> ubuntu 7.10 is working with the ripp of the midinux driver
<persia> I agree that it's frustrating now (and don't have networking working for my D4 either, despite a USB WiFi stick, a USB Ethernet stick, and some other hackery)
<Celtiore> if benq is 2.6.24 we can put ubuntu 8.04 :) :)
<FreeSoul> 2.6.22.18-2
<Celtiore> same as here
<FreeSoul> wait a sec more... i check a thing
<FreeSoul> this is Benq mid s6 repository for updates http://211.78.82.25/mid/s6/it/updates/
<persia> If you own the benq kernel, there's no big reason you can't use that in any version of Ubuntu, although if you diverge too far, you might have issues with some userspace stuff.
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, can you upload the benq recovery img, i just want to try it on my aigo :)
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: it's 800MB, not easy for me
<Celtiore> some fresh update on benq rep
<Celtiore> do you want ftp access ?
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: and probably you are happy to not know how italian adsl work :)
<FreeSoul> just a sec
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: i need to find the dvd first.... wait it's not usual for me to lost things
<FreeSoul> as not saaid, found
<FreeSoul> hey hey wait. The kernel 2.6.22.18-2 that is running on benq mid.... i think you may like to have source code :D do you want it?
<Celtiore> with the benq rep, i can install some packages :)
<FreeSoul> it should have all drivers inside!
<Celtiore> sure :)
<FreeSoul> persia: i've benq mid kernel source code.... it should have all drivers!
<persia> FreeSoul, Check the copyrights, but that sounds *really* promising.
<FreeSoul> persia: i check copyright but i don't like to respect that kind of things when i pay for a product that is not working as promised
<FreeSoul> persia: here there's nothing about copyright
<FreeSoul> Celtiore persia: the dvd recovery of the benq mid comes with isolinux and source code for all packages. Do you need both?
<persia> FreeSoul, I'm not going to tell you what to do with your product.  On the other hand, if the copyright and license documentation clearly let you redistribute, I'd go talk to the archive admins and try to get it in Ubuntu.
<FreeSoul> persia: i'm searching on the dvd but i can't find any copyright file. Also cosider that the direcroty with source code is called: Open Source Code
<FreeSoul> open is esplicative to me :)
<persia> FreeSoul, I'm not the person who needs convincing :)  It's that I've had stuff rejected from the archives before for missing a copyright header on a five-line XML file, and it's just frustrating, so I want to make sure the documentation is in place first.
<FreeSoul> persia: i estract the source and i tell if you there's anything said on copyright
<persia> FreeSoul, Sounds good.  Ideally, we'll discover that there's a license to redistribute, and that it compiles cleanly against the dailies, and we'll be in *really* good shape.
<FreeSoul> uhmm i've never used src.rpm how to use it? yum won't install it due to of different arch
<FreeSoul> aren't rpm just gz archives?
<FreeSoul> seems no :D
<persia> Google gives me http://la-samhna.de/library/compile/unpacking.html
<persia> Also http://www.lsc-group.phys.uwm.edu/beowulf/medusa/maintenance/rpm_manual.html which suggests rpm -Uvh foo.src.rpm
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, i put benq-settings.rpm on my aigo and it work fine :)
<FreeSoul> Celtiore:  :) i'm happpy
<persia> Aren't both of those rebadged Jax10 devices?
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: i'd like to try android and see if it add phone call/sms capabilities. i've found openmokko-dialer in benq mid
<Celtiore> persia, yes
<persia> Does it have a phone modules?
<Celtiore> not the aigo
<persia> I'd given up on using the D4 as a phone, but I'm suddenly intrigued.
<FreeSoul> persia: i've no idea, it has 2G and 3G
<FreeSoul> data module
<FreeSoul> but i suspect it may have also phone module
<FreeSoul> persia: i've found nothing about copyright.... on the contrary it has all dpatch for drivers. Where can i upload it?
<FreeSoul> and what packages source do you need exaclty?
<persia> FreeSoul, It's generally impossible for something not to have copyright, which makes me worry.
<FreeSoul> persia: i see
<FreeSoul> wait a sec
<persia> Generally we have to provide the archive-admins with proof that it is copyrighted, and that it is licensed in a way that lets us give them a license to distribute it to all the users.
<FreeSoul> it may be written inside the file... let me see
 * persia hopes for good luck
<persia> Also, I don't know which sources are required : you have the device, so you'll have to say what doesn't work.
<persia> I know a bit about packaging, and have been around Ubuntu a while, so once the important part is identified, I'm happy to help get it into the archives if we're allows.
<persia> s/allows/allowed/
<FreeSoul> persia: the device works perfectly, my problem is that it won't let me install "any" llinux software as i'd like. Also the sw keyboard won't work for apps that are not the few allready installed by default. i managed to have a terminal in gui after a day of work, i tryed opera, skype and so, but nothing, i gotta plug in an usb keyboard. I want a real os, with real repositories, not just the packages that they think i'm gonna u
<FreeSoul> these are my problems with benq mid
<persia> FreeSoul, That's the easy part to solve with Ubuntu.  The question is in which ways does Ubuntu not work for you?  These are the things that we need to fix.
<persia> I know the touchscreen is likely one.  The video driver is probably another (although one can work around with vesa if required).
<FreeSoul> persia: actually, using the live, xorg can't start because it can't detect screen
<persia> I heard rumors that wireless might be an issue, but that might just be a firmware thing, which might be the same firmware thing that was discussed at the recent release meeting.
<FreeSoul> and i can't test vesa since i've only one usb port
<persia> Celtiore, You had a bit more luck, right?
<FreeSoul> persia: i suspect that wifi card in benq mid is intel 39 and something
<persia> Anyone else have this hardware and is testing intrepid?
<FreeSoul> so drivers should not be a problem
<Celtiore> persia, yes but very light bit :)
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, wifi working fine
<persia> Then Wifi isn't an issue.  It's just video and touchscreen?
<Celtiore> and you can find the marvell rpm on benq rep,
<FreeSoul> persia: if i don't go in gui how can i know if touchscreen works? :P
<Celtiore> i just downloaded and convert in .deb :)
<persia> FreeSoul, Hrm.  Without a hub, I don't know what to tell you.  I've been bugging people about the video for a bit.  I'll try some more (as it's broken on my hardware too).
<persia> If the default video driver for Poulsbo can be set to vesa, you should have an easier expereince.
<FreeSoul> persia: dunno, i've no idea and unfortunalty at the moment i can't test it
<persia> FreeSoul, Understood.  Which version of X is there?  Is it 1.5 or earlier?
<FreeSoul> in benq mid?
<persia> Yea.
<FreeSoul> let me see
<FreeSoul> 1.3.0.0
<persia> Because I have some source for a Poulsbo driver for X 1.4, but it doesn't compile against 1.5.  If you're on 1.5, we can probably make it work.
<persia> Oh, yeah, that's not going to be compatible :(
<persia> It's a little late for me here now, but I'll see if I can find the issue with X looking for the broken Poulsbo driver tomorrow : with luck we can force vesa, and on Monday or Tuesday the daily image should be in better shape for you.
<pinguozzz> hi!
<pinguozzz> i'm a user of an oqo e2 with via unichrome and i don't if i can use normal img from mid sit
<pinguozzz> *site
<FreeSoul> persia: many huge thanks form here
<persia> pinguozzz, We just turned off the openchrome driver today, so no.  You might try -mobile.  I'll see if openchrome compiles for lpia, and maybe, but I think you're better off with i386 (known to support the oqo)
<persia> FreeSoul, No, thank you for digging through and reverse-engineering the hardware.  It's different from what I have, and slightly different from what Celtiore has.  Not many people have this sort of hardware, so it takes all of us to make -mid work properly.
<pinguozzz> persia: do you think normal i386 ubuntu?
<persia> pinguozzz, I'd recommend trying an image from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current
<FreeSoul> persia: i think i've been the first in the world to buy the benq mid
<persia> It's the Ubuntu Mobile image : somewhere between Desktop and MID.
<persia> FreeSoul, At least the first person to talk about it here.
<pinguozzz> persia: ah ok ^_^
<pinguozzz> persia: only one thing
<persia> pinguozzz, You can try -mid, but you'll need to hand-compile the video driver, because someone said "Nobody is going to use -mid on openchrome".  Sorry about that.
<FreeSoul> persia: can i query you for private talk for a while?
<pinguozzz> if i install intrepid i386 from alternative install cd an after i install ubuntu-mobile metapackage
<pinguozzz> persia: i can understand because people don't want openchrome on a mid
<pinguozzz> :D
<persia> Yes, although the image might be easier.
<pinguozzz> persia: yes obviosly :)
<persia> You also are one of the people I claimed exist that like installing from CDs.  Thank you :)  I've one of those handy devices as well.
<pinguozzz> ?_?
<pinguozzz> persia: but you say that from today openchrome is not inclused on daily image
<pinguozzz> ?
<persia> No, it's never been there (it wasn't ever built), but on Friday it was decided that this wasn't a bug.
<pinguozzz> ah ok :)
<pinguozzz> but img fro mid devices include normal i386 packages?
<pinguozzz> can i use it on c7 by via?
<persia> I'm not sure.  I think you have to adjust and use the lpiacompat kernel for that processor.  I'd really recommend -mobile for that device, as -mobile is based on i386, and is much more likely to support your hardware.
<pinguozzz> uhmm
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, always here ?
<FreeSoul> I've BenQ MID S6 kernel source code that provides drivers for all hardware (touchscreen, wifi, poulsbo, etc) what can i do? I suppose it could be really usefull. what can I do? it's kernel-2.6.22.18-2.
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: of course :)
<Celtiore> if find the touchscreen drivers on the rep updates
<Celtiore> xorg-x11-drv-enetouch-0.2.6-2008.08.08.i386.rpm
<Celtiore> can you check on your dvd, if perhaps you can find the src files :p
<persia> Cool.  Is there a .src.rpm for that?
<persia> ogra, Have you heard of enetouch before?
<FreeSoul> you mean theese? lol
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    235300 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-dummy-0.2.0-1.2.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    266232 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-enetouch-0.2.0-2008.07.18.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    251124 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-evdev-1.1.2-1.2.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    240186 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-keyboard-1.1.1-1.2.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    282837 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-mouse-1.1.2-1.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root   4199789 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-touchkit-1.06.0704-1.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    240094 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-v4l-0.1.1-1.1.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    244533 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-vesa-1.3.0-1.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    267606 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-vmware-10.15.0-1.1.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    232192 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-void-1.1.0-1.2.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root    125060 2008-08-12 02:15 xorg-x11-drv-wizardpen-0.5.0-2.src.rpm
<FreeSoul> sorry for flooding
<persia> enetouch and touchkit look like the interesting ones.  I think the rest are already in Ubuntu.
<persia> Oh, and maybe wizardpen.
 * persia doesn't understand why there are three things that look like possible touchscreen-type drivers
<persia> FreeSoul, Do you happen to have an Ubuntu desktop?
<FreeSoul> persia: FC9 :) ehehe
<persia> Ah, too bad.
<FreeSoul> full list of src.prm files on BenQ MID S6: http://www.poetidistrada.com/tdfsroot/benq-mid-s6_src.rpm.txt
<persia> I was thinking that if you had an Ubuntu desktop, you could try compiling those against intrepid and see if they work.
<ogra> persia, yes, enetouch is one of the six touchscreen drivers we will merge upstream in jaunty
<FreeSoul> persia: i've an ubuntu desktop at home to be honest, it's my father pc :)
<persia> ogra, Are any of the touchscreen drivers in the source shown there stuff we don't have?
<ogra> for jaunty all touchscreens are supposed to be handled by evdev as all other input devices
<persia> OK, so then it's kernel drivers that might be an issue, rather than input drivers?
<Celtiore> FreeSoul, can you just upload the right files for me
<Celtiore> and perhapsi can try to compile for ubuntu ?
<ogra> xserver-xorg-input-evtouch
<ogra> xserver-xorg-input-tslib
<ogra> xserver-xorg-input-elo2300
<ogra> xserver-xorg-input-elographics
<ogra> xserver-xorg-input-palmax
<ogra> thats the set we currently have in intrepid
<ogra> though i suspect enetouch devices will be handled by evtouch
<Celtiore> ogra i confirm enetouch is for idctouch
<persia> OK.  So enetouch and touchkit and wizardpen might all have useful code.
<ogra> but note that the usbtouchscreen kernel driver only supports three sets yet
<Celtiore> http://paste.ubuntu-fr-secours.org/src-5331
<persia> Oh, so it's the kernel that is the issue?
<ogra>          mtouchusb
<ogra>           itmtouch
<ogra>           touchkitusb
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: tell me what to do, but in private because i've some problem to follow everything
<ogra> persia, well, you need both sides 
<ogra> the kernel needs to provide the /dev/input/eventX side, the X driver needs to provide calibration and input handling at X level
<persia> Hrm.  OK.  Well there are kernel sources, but those are maybe harder to isolate and test for API compatibility.
<ogra> afaik whats missing for the idctouch is the kernel level driver
<ogra> you can make any device you want handled by evtouch with a bit code tweakage for example ... as long as it provides something in /dev/input
<persia> That's the plan for the merge, right?
<ogra> no
<ogra> the plan for the merge is to centralize on evdev not evtouch
<ogra> so all X level touchscreen drivers can be dropped
<persia> Also X level touchpad, joystick, etc. drivers?
<ogra> right
<persia> And everything goes into DeviceKit?
<ogra> evdev will be the totally generic input driver for all input devices
<ogra> DK is kernel level
<persia> MIDI too, or everything but MIDI?
<ogra> or rather the hal replacement
<persia> RIght.
<ogra> no idea about midi 
<ogra> midi that can be handled by hal today will surely be in DK
<persia> That's OK.  I suspect the number of people who want to use MIDI to control X are fairly small :)
 * ogra needs to go on cleaning the house, RichEd is staying here the week ... back later
<Celtiore> thanks you ogra and persia , i hope soon we can help you
<persia> Celtiore, No, thank you : I'm sure there are lots of other users out there with that hardware, and it will be great once Ubuntu can support it.
<Celtiore> i hope 
<FreeSoul> i know at least a couple with aigomid
<FreeSoul> i need a real distro on my benq mid...  can i wine? :P
<persia> FreeSoul, whining won't help much, but with luck, working together, we can make one.
<FreeSoul> :)
<FreeSoul> ok guys i can't do a lot with empty stomach :) c ya later :)
<Celtiore> persia, i find : http://home.eeti.com.tw/web20/TouchKitDriver/linuxDriver.htm
<Celtiore> can you explain me please :p
<Celtiore> the enetouch.src.rpm does only contains the idctouch.so :(
<persia> Celtiore, I don't know much, but I don't see X 1.5 listed.
<persia> Maybe the Fedora 9 one works, but maybe not.  Needs testing.
<persia> Also, you want to check the license to see if it can be redistributed : maybe it just needs documentation to point people to that website and maybe it can be in Ubuntu.
<FreeSoul> persia: i dunno how these kind of things go but since intel has written linux driver for mids... does anybody asked intel in orther to have drivers?
<ogra> persia, fedora 9 uses the same X as hardy .... what you need is drivers for 1.5 
<ogra> FreeSoul, the intel psb driver is not much different to nvidias closed driver ... no way to use it if they dont take care for it to be ported to the right X version
<ogra> the same goes for the kernel sided touchscreen driver 
<FreeSoul> ogra: i see :-/ i didn't know abou this
<FreeSoul> orga so my benq mid s6 sources are useless?
<ogra> one would hope they open it up at some pont nad just push it to freedesktop.org where xorg upstrem can take care, but that didnt happen yet
<FreeSoul> ogra: i see...
<ogra> surely not, they likely work for *something* ... note that ubuntu 8.10 is nearly released, if we even could get them in and ported to the right X version that wouldnt happen before jaunty (9.04) development starts
<ogra> relese date is in 20 days ... not much will happen beyond fixing of really bad bugs until then in 8.10
<ogra> we'll examine your sources for sure to get them into 9.04, promised :)
<FreeSoul> ogra: ok so, you need me to upload them somewhere?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-10-12
<zj3t3mju> are there any way to install this MID on a PC to test?
<zj3t3mju> :P
<zj3t3mju> virtual like VMware?
<zj3t3mju> are there any way to install this MID on a PC to test? live VMware?
<FreeSoul> hi guys
<FreeSoul> Celtiore: upload finished yestrday evening
<FreeSoul> persia: may be usefull to you have a look at benq xorg.conf in order to see which driver they use for inputs and screen?
<Celtiore> hi 
<persia> Good day Celtiore
<Celtiore> :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-06
<lool> Anybody tested UNR this morning?  Was Software Center showing up in Favorites?
<davmor2> lool: I can have a look for you after if you want
<lool> davmor2: No need to go all the way to install it just for that, but if you test it I'm interested in that info
<lool> hey maen 
<maen> hey lool ( Loic?)
<lool> Yup it's me
<davmor2> lool: your query about the install was it because the partitioning section died a horrible flaming death?
<lool> davmor2: Sorry which query?  too many context switches for me right now
<davmor2> lool: ah no it was for software center
<lool> Yes
<davmor2> it's okay the partitioner is a bit broke today
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-08
<dft5g> hii
<simith> hello 
<simith> i would like to set up a development environment for Ubuntu mobile edition on Fedora 8 
<simith> is there any docs ?
<simith> not possible ?
<asac> whats the official way to upgrade UNR?
<asac> lool: ?
 * asac never used update-manager on it ;)
<asac> just apt-get dist-upgrade or are there already update hacks in update-manager i dont want to miss?
<davmor2> asac: what version you on now?
<davmor2> asac: I'm assuming you can try update-manager -d the same as desktop
<asac> davmor2: i am on jaunty
<asac> davmor2: i can use update-manager
<asac> but usually i prefer apt-get ;) ... which is why i asked if there are hacks that i would miss ;)
<davmor2> asac: ah fair enough
<asac> so ... are there hacks or not ;)?`
<asac> anyway still upgrading to latest jaunty ... so have a few more minutes at least ;)
<davmor2> asac: I don't know I used update-manager -d
<asac> mini-9 is not really speedy
<asac> ok i will use that too then :)
<davmor2> asac: you might lose wifi
<asac> loos wifi?
<asac> davmor2: ?
<asac> i probably want that ;)
<lool> asac: Pong?
<lool> asac: In the train right now
<davmor2> asac: yeah most people using dell mini and karmic have lost wifi
<lool> asac: cant read scrollback, but perhaps I can help now?
<asac> lool: just wanted to know if update-manager has any tweaks or if its a valid test to update to karmic with apt-get
<asac> lool: but i decided to use update-manager now :) ... was initially not sure whats the normal thing for UNR
<asac> davmor2: wl driver regression :/
<asac> yeah i read bugs about it
<asac> what a mess
<asac> i hope it just affects some types of networks
<asac> i have reports that some APs work and some down
<asac> dont
<davmor2> asac: I don't know if it is happening on upgrades though
<davmor2> hence the might
<asac> the reports i got say it regressed on about oct 5
<asac> so not that long ago
<asac> :/
<lool> asac: We're using the same tools as the desktop as much as possible
<ian_brasil> i always used update-manager -d  (without any problems)
<asac> 3 minutes till downloads finish in update-manager ... then we will see ;)
<asac> darn. how much i dislike debconf
<asac> the upgrade hung for one hour
<asac> because of some config file i never touched
<lool> asac: cups.conf?
<lool> I have CUPS for that, you cant imagine
<lool> asac: I think update-manager disables the prompts though, doesn't it?
<asac> lool: i am not sure if it was cups again. but cups surely changes config regularly without user modification
<asac> lool: update-manager prompted me here on unr
<asac> lool: UNR looks good ... only thing is the bluetooth tray when disabled
<asac> its not recognizable
<asac> also the volume indicator i just can see the speaker not ... how much volume there is
<asac> and on launcher the apps have too much spacing in between
<asac> not enough fit in the area
<asac> haave to scroll even on favorites
<asac> but otherwise thumbs up!!
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-09
<lool> asac: These are excellent comments; I'd appreciate if you'd file them in LP so that I can forward them to design team
<lool> asac: I'm filing this kind of issues myself, but I don't have a direct say on how the UI looks like, I can just complain and criticize  :)
<vigneswari> hi all
<vigneswari> how to change the background in UME
<vigneswari> i used moblin-background to change the backgroung sollid color
<vigneswari> it is ok..but if i restart it is not what i set..its going back to default..
<vigneswari> i want to make my value default..which file should i edit?
<vigneswari> someone plz help me to solve this
<asac> lool: against what should i file such a bug?
<ian_brasil> vigneswari, try setting the gconf key
<vigneswari> ian_brasil, how to do?
<ian_brasil> run gconf-editor
<vigneswari> ian_brasil, /usr/share/gconf/schemas/desktop_moblin_background.schemas i edited that file
<vigneswari> i didnt work
<vigneswari> it*
<ian_brasil> run gconf-editor then go to desktop -> applications -> background
<ian_brasil> if that does not work something is overwriting the key when the system boots
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, ok..any other way in file level editing
<ian_brasil> vigneswari, run $ gconftool -get-default-source
<ian_brasil> this shows the location of the xml backend gconf is using
<ian_brasil> oops -> $ gconftool --get-default-source
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, i could not edit any key using gconf editor..
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, let me try this now
<ian_brasil> vigneswari, there was a bug that you could not change the background ..what you are saying leads me to believe that this was not solved yet 
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, oh...the output file for the command is empty
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, gconftool-2 -R  /desktop/moblin 
<vigneswaris> this command tells that it is taking the color what i mentioned
<vigneswaris> for key primary_color
<vigneswaris> but it is not reflecting
<ian_brasil> vigneswari, so something is overwriting this key when the system boots
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, need to edit in gtkrc file?
<ian_brasil> what is in /etc/gconf/schemas ?
<vigneswaris> ian_brasil, xml files and it is empty
<lool> asac: Icons?  humanity-icon-theme
<asac> lool: right ;) what a smart idea
<asac> lool: bug 447284
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447284 in humanity-icon-theme "UNR karmic icons need more contrast" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447284
<lool> thanks
<lool> asac: You had fennec packages a while ago, didn't you?
<asac> lool: yes. they are in the archive, arent they?
<asac> we cannot ship 1.0 atm because that needs xul 1.9.2 unfortuantely
<asac> so what we have is the most recent currently possible
<ogra> asac, werent there nightlies in the ppa ? 
<asac> lool: also filed bug 447293
<ogra> i though fta created something 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447293 in netbook-launcher "UNR karmic launcher seems to waste too much space" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447293
<asac> updated title
<lool> asac: thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-10-10
<ogra_n900> hey hey 
<davidm> ogra hello
