#edubuntu 2006-01-23
<mhz> ogra: ping?
<lucasvo> ogra: who is responsible for protecting the ubuntu brand?
<lucasvo> ogra: I don't have her email anyomore
<lucasvo> Jane silbs?
* irvin is away: I'm busy
<P3L|C4N0> hi people
<Yagisan> P3L|C4N0: G'day
<mhz> ogra: ping
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> Yagisan: wow! awake still?
<Yagisan> mhz: yeah - just fixed a problem with my www server
<mhz> cool!
<Yagisan> mhz: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi
<Yagisan> mhz: check it out - even has USN on the frount page
<Yagisan> :)
<lucasvo> I have just read a quite interesting email about SchoolNet
<lucasvo> do you kno it?
<lucasvo> http://www.morokeni.ch/pdf/eduKar-profile-11Jan2006.pdf
<Yagisan> sorry, no, I don't
<lucasvo> you should read the document
<lucasvo> :P
<lucasvo> edubuntu isn't that bad, but it is not as good as their own
* mhz phone
<Yagisan> lucasvo: if they add universe, edubuntu has most of it
<lucasvo> yes
<Yagisan> lucasvo: did I mention I finished the basics of my site :)
<Yagisan> ogra: mhz is looking for you
<lucasvo> Yagisan: where?
<ogra> Yagisan, yes, i ponged 
<mhz> Yagisan: if i were you, i'd choose to display Ubuntu sec. news before M$ ones
<ogra> but that might have gone under in my linedrop
<mhz> ogra: hey, sorry I see no 'pong' anywhere
<mhz> (weired)
<lucasvo> Yagisan: which url?
<ogra> mhz ogra: ping
<ogra> Yagisan G'day mhz
<ogra> mhz Yagisan: wow! awake still?
<ogra> ogra mhz, pong
<ogra> * Disconnected ().
<ogra> might be the line dropped already
<mhz> ooohhhhm must be something in my client... I never saw that
<mhz> ogra: anyways, sorry for the inconvenience
<lucasvo> mhz: no, it is ogra's problem
<mhz> and thx for pongig
<mhz> and thx for ponging
<lucasvo> ogra: I have sent you an email
<ogra> its on my side, dont worry
<lucasvo> is it a goal of edubuntu to offer (cheap) solutions for schools in affrica
<lucasvo> SchoolNet Namibia?
<ogra> lucasvo, thats rather the goal of highvoltage, we build annd offer the base for it
<mhz> ogra: simple questions... When is next edubuntu summit and where?   /    Anychances I can convince you and Mark to let you come to Chile during last week of march, 1st week of april ?
<ogra> surely not at this dates
<ogra> we have release in april 20th
<ogra> s7in/on
<ogra> nobody will be able to travel at this time
<ogra> since we'll need to fix the last bugs
<mhz> hmmmm
* mhz sighs
<mhz> ogra: i can't make any event in may
<ogra> in may we have the ubuntu conf ...
<mhz> and I can't make any event before 20th of march
<ogra> will be a bad time as well
<mhz> ogra: that's why I said "i can't"
<ogra> the only dates i can think of is after the ubuntu conference
<mhz> when is conf?
<ogra> i dont have the mail here 
<ogra> mid may i thin
<ogra> k
<mhz> bummer
<mhz> :(
<ogra> or beginning of may
<ogra> i'll talk to mark about possible dates once he's back from asia ...
<ogra> (dunno when that is though)#
<mhz> The only available dates to book the places we 'strategically' need in Santiago, are March-April or after July, in which case will kill all our plans
<mhz> our Plans considera 'real-intensive' training and touring schools
<mhz> and this event is for 300 people
<mhz> at least 200 school
<mhz> s
<Yagisan> lucasvo: sorry - was checking kids http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi
<ogra> mhz, we wont be able to do anything like a edubuntu summit before release, i'm pretty sure
<mhz> ogra: I know
<mhz> I am not thinking of Edubuntu summit in Chile this year
<ogra> and afterwards we'll have the ubuntu conf really soon
<mhz> I just need to have 2 or 3 canonical people for 5 days in Chile
<mhz> maybe 4 days
<mhz> I know there will be a GNOME event in Brazil
<mhz> near April too
<ogra> as i said, i'll talk to mark if he's back from the asia promotion tour ...
<mhz> so the idea ogra, was to make the event in Chile, go to Brazil
<ogra> but i'm not sure how long that lasts
<mhz> ogra: is he reading mails on regular basis
<ogra> yes
<ogra> but mind you, he's getting 1000s per day i think
* mhz sighs deeply... 
<mhz> yes, i imagine
<mhz> the issue I see here is for my plans only
<ogra> you should probably ask *before* making plans if you want other people involved
<mhz> I have finally got more interested people who are considering to sponsor me for about 6 months with the Edubuntu Tour thing
<mhz> ogra: yes
<mhz> but please consider that I have to start somewhere
<mhz> and if i start with canonical people and dont get sponsors in Chile to help with Edubuntu Tour
<mhz> then I doubt canonical will believe in my ideas for near future
<mhz> ogra: or not?
<ogra> you dont need sponsors ...
<mhz> ogra: i do. I am getting to 'zero' money in the bank and the pocket
<mhz> ogra: recently elected president has made education one of her top priorities for 2008
<mhz> so, the plan is to have a very active community and many shcools using Edubuntu
<mhz> during 2007
<mhz> ogra: inn order to do so, 2006 is the year we need to make the Tour
<mhz> in Chile
<mhz> suggest the summit in Chile for 2007 
<ogra> i meant you dont need sponsors to get canonical people to you 
<mhz> and show the Chilean Gov we did great in order to have its support for 2008
<mhz> ogra: oooh, I did not know that
<ogra> either mark pays or he doesnt come 
<ogra> he has his own plane and i guess he can claim the fuel back on taxes ;)
<mhz> ogra: oh, but I do need sponsors to get the plan doable. I am sure prospects see just a couple of chubby guys with no 'job' today when I knock on their doors. If they see Canonical behind these 2 guys... it is more likely they'll see I knwo what I am doing
<ogra> mhz, sure, but i cant offer you to schedule marks time, he just wont allow me to do that ;)
<mhz> ogra: hehehe, I know
<ogra> and my schedule is locked pretty much for development until release ...
<mhz> ogra: i was just asking if there is any chance I can have you and 1 more and 1 or 2 more guys from Canonical for 4 days in Chile
<ogra> i'll talk to mark, as i said
<mhz> ogra: and what is this were the 22nd of april?
<mhz> is -if
<ogra> thats 2 days after release .... nobody in the distro team will sleep the week before
<mhz> ogra: you could see this as your vacations... rafting?
<ogra> sure i could, but youre throwing impossible dates at me :/
<mhz> hehehehehehe
<mhz> lol
<mhz> 24th?
<ogra> i have to look up when exactly the ubuntu conf is to tell you more
<mhz> ogra: okis, i understand
<mhz> ogra: i hope you understand why i needed this bugging you 
<ogra> and i really need to talk to mark...
<mhz> :)
<ogra> yes, i do
<ogra> i'll try my best...
<mhz> thx
<mhz> i know you do
<guim>  creating a zip archive won't work when there is an empty folder to add to the zip  
<guim> oups
<guim> wrong chan again
<guim> sorry
<guim> (and hi all btw)
<mhz> guim: hehehe
<guim> ;)
<guim> (reporting a problem I have with gnome/ubuntu)
<guim> edubuntu chan's name is to close :)
<guim> mhz, did you see the belgian link I sent you?
<ogra> lucasvo, thanks for the pdfs 
<mhz> guim: to me?
<ogra> lucasvo, but the comparison doc is compeltely wrong in most cases
<ogra> they omit most of the apps we ship
<ogra> i wonder if they used a prerelease or something ... 
<guim> mhz, yes
<mhz> guim: then nope, i dont recall
<guim> "reseau citoyen"
<guim> this an initative in Blegium to provide free wireless access to the internet in some cities in Belgium
<guim> You said you were looking for that kind of project
<guim> but their wiki is in french and the website is not really uptodate
<mhz> guim: ooooohhhhh, yes!!!
<guim> :)
<mhz> guim: I did saw it
<mhz> long ago to remember, sorry
<guim> np
<mhz> I followed EdubuntuInstallNotes advice to ThinClientHowtoNAT
<mhz> I see /etc/ltsp/nat.conf
<mhz> but I dont get to understand how I can include in it to keep port 8080 open
<mhz> any ideas?
<mhz> Yagisan: awake?
<ogra> hmm you dont really need NAT on thin clients 
<ogra> since nothing runs locally
<mhz> hmmm, i do, beacause this small network is shared by 2 clients and 2 normal linux boxes
<mhz> and the 'server' provide Edubuntu and NAT
* mhz would love to have a real testing env. soon
<ogra> as i said, the thin clients dont need any routing
<ogra> and no NAT as well
<mhz> ogra: hehehe, i know about the Clients no needing anything
<mhz> but the other 2 normal boxed do need it. And all 4 machines (boxes and clients) are connected to same server
<ogra> you will never connect them to anything apart the server and all the sessions run on the server, there is zero point in doing NAT
<ogra> why do you need to NAT the normal boxes  ? 
<ogra> just point them to the right gateway
<mhz> ogra: the server has 2 NIC's. One is only for local traffic (LTSP and NAT), the other is connected to the house-modem
<ogra> ah
<ogra> yes, then NAT might help
<mhz> LOL
<ogra> i didnt think you have two NICs
<ogra> its a waste of HW :)
<mhz> ogra: it's not 'my server', it's the one they lend me to 'play and test' as much aas I can as long as I dont touch the HW, only the 1 HD I have for Edubuntu stuff
<mhz> so those are the rules I play with
<ogra> ah
<mhz> and that's I hope when I get sponsors I can have a 'real testing env.'
<mhz> ogra: so if you can tell me how I can set that nat.conf to let me open 8080.. it will be real cool
<mhz> I can access 7080 perfectly
<mhz> but 8080
<mhz> :(
<ogra> does squid run ? 
<ogra> there must be something listening on 8080
<ogra> else your connection will be refused
<ogra> +so configure squid right and make sure it runs 
<mhz> hmmm, squid is good idea but then why I can get to 7080 and not 8080?
<ogra> what do you get on 7080 ?
<mhz> SchoolTool
<ogra> thats not NATed
<mhz> ok, i got lost now. I need that 'server' to accept 8080 and 7080
<ogra> nope
<mhz> as in 192.168....:7080
<ogra> 7080 runs locally on the server
<mhz>  and as in 192.168....:8080
<mhz> yes
<ogra> thats not NAT
<mhz> yes
<mhz> it is not nat
<mhz> I agree
<mhz> but my point is I tried to read nat.conf
<ogra> NAT means you forward requests on one NIC to the other
<mhz> following InstallNotes advice
<mhz> yes, ogra
<ogra> i didnt write the NAT stuff
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> I thought you had
<ogra> and i dont know who put that on the InsatllNotes
<mhz> ooops
<ogra> since NAT is stupid fro normal ltsp functionallity
<mhz> ok, then the good news is that ThinClientHowtoNAT works ok, but it's chineese to me when I try to understand the nat.conf file
<ogra> its only intresting for your corner case where you put real workstations on the thin client net
<mhz> and I have ports blocked BUT 7080
<ogra> but only there
<mhz> :)
<ogra> you dont have blocked anything local with NAT
<ogra> so schooltool will always be available unless you write a special iptables rule for that
<ogra> s/for/for blocking/
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> then why 8080 is being 'refused connection' in your oipinion?
<ogra> nat means only forwarding stuff between the two networks
<mhz> yup
<mhz> NAT is Network Address T...
<ogra> dunno, is your squid configured correctly and running ?
* mhz has not run squid there yet
<ogra> so why do you expect port 8080 to answer ?
<mhz> because IIRC, all ports are open unless you close them?
<mhz> and localhost:8080 is responding perfectly
<ogra> yes, on the server where noting listens on 8080
<mhz> BUT 192.168.0.1:8080 is refusing
<ogra> what do you get on localhost:8080
<mhz> now, moin, because Tecnocimiento.cl is getting 'time out's (looooong story)
<mhz> so I need to set up something quickly while I get a better solution form hostinf
<mhz> g
<ryanbisd> Hey guys.  Do you know of any good ESL programs or games?
<ryanbisd> Hey guys.  Do you know of any good ESL programs or games?
<DaSkreech> Hello
<DaSkreech> I'm having a little issue with java in Firefox
<DaSkreech> Is there a problem with BlackDown?
<Burgwork> DaSkreech, please ask in #ubuntu, as the version of FF is the same
<ogra> not that i'm aware of
<DaSkreech> I am 
<ogra> j2re in breezy runs fine here
<DaSkreech> Just thought that you might have a quicker finger on the pulse
<ogra> (at least the one from multiverse we offer=
<DaSkreech> since schools would make heavy use of java
<DaSkreech> ogra: Do you have Firefox 1.0.7?
<DaSkreech> or have you ugraded?
<ogra> i have the ff and j2re we offer in breezy
<ogra> works fine on ltsp and non ltsp setups
<DaSkreech> Right
<DaSkreech> Can you do a quick test for me?
<lucasvo> guim: what was it about reseau citoyen?
<lucasvo> I have met these guys
<DaSkreech> Go to mathsnet.net and click on algebra
<ogra> not now, i'm not near my breezy box and tomorrow is deadline for new packages in edubuntu dapper ....
<DaSkreech> :-)
<DaSkreech> Work hard :) We appreciate it
<ogra> probably some other user with breezy in here can help
* DaSkreech nods. Assuming they aren't busy
<DaSkreech> and speak up :-)
<DaSkreech> hi littlepaul
<littlepaul> hi DaSkreech 
<mhz> ogra: nat.conf was ok, Iptables was ok too
<mhz> moin.py was set to use interface = localhost
<mhz> intead of ''
<mhz> duh!
<penguin_roar> hello :D
<penguin_roar> Just rolled out 70 clients on an Edubuntu server today =)
<ogra> wow !
<penguin_roar> Good work lads and laddies
<ogra> thanks  :)
<penguin_roar> its just a 2 Xeon machine so its interesting to see how it will handle the load 
<penguin_roar> 3 Gb mem 
<penguin_roar> tried sabayon, that made managing profiles easier than on Novell Zenworks 
<penguin_roar> hey, trondm, is that the norweigian guy from kongsvinger?
<Burgwork> penguin_roar, you played with pessulus yet?
<penguin_roar> no, whats that?
<Burgwork> lockdown editor, integrates into new versions of sabayon
<penguin_roar> oki, something i must look at
<ogra> its a shrunk down variant of sabayon
#edubuntu 2006-01-24
<ogra> with only the locking functionallity
<Burgwork> ogra, not really
<ogra> but ? 
<Burgwork> it does the lockdown stuff that sabayon can  do, but manually
<Burgwork> such as editing gconf keys, mostly
<ogra> yes
<ogra> thats what i said above
<penguin_roar> does it write into the sabayon profiles too?
<Burgwork> penguin_roar, yes
<ogra> nope
<ogra> yes ? 
<ogra> since when ? 
<Burgwork> in newer versions of sabayon
<penguin_roar> i installed the latest so it should work for me i suppose
<ogra> ah
<ogra> i didnt try the latest
<penguin_roar> Burgwork, from CVS or the source package kind of latest?
<Burgwork> might only be cvs head
<penguin_roar> oki, ill setup a testbed then, dont want to rock the boat :D
<Burgwork> http://www.vuntz.net/journal/2005/11/14/340-positive-feedback
<penguin_roar> care to translate, plz? 
<penguin_roar> argh, to fast
<penguin_roar> ignore that
<Burgwork> np
<Burgwork> the sabayon <--> pessulus stuff is still very new, but I want to do some testing here at work too
<penguin_roar> im in speed mode, installed Novell Open Enterprise, 100 thin clients and Edubuntu and im not wound down yet
<penguin_roar> what is the "proper" way to setup settings in openoffice on ubuntu for all users? I just copied my own settings to /etc/skel but i suppose thats an ugly hack
<Burgwork> penguin_roar, sadly I think that is the only way
<penguin_roar> in k12ltsp there was a bunch of scripts that did those kind of things
<penguin_roar> very handy, in /opt/ltsp they lied
<Burgwork> the k12ltsp stuff might be easy to port
<penguin_roar> any of theese days i need to get some time to chip in more
<Burgwork> hah, you and me both
<penguin_roar> im the only one who can Linux and my boss loves linux, guess who does 90% of all the work around here =)
<penguin_roar> not that i can complain
<Burgwork> I sell Linux, so I guess you could say I do 100%
<penguin_roar> nice way to make a living
<penguin_roar> do you sell services or whole packages?
<Burgwork> both
<Burgwork> together
<ogra> he just sells the wrong system :)
<penguin_roar> SUSE?
<penguin_roar> heh
<ogra> no edubuntu yet ;)
* Burgwork hangs his head as he sells FC4, hacked
<Burgwork> the business development side of hte company is looking at cool ltsp/multiseat stuff
<penguin_roar> FC4 aint no dogfood, my former server was stable with 34 concurrent users on an AMD 3 Ghz
<penguin_roar> it was unsinkable
<penguin_roar> the only thing i miss is someone who do X through an ssh tunnel
<penguin_roar> with ltsp that is'
<penguin_roar> NX is nice but its not that easy to integrate with thin clients
<penguin_roar> join #sweden
<penguin_roar> sry, my bad
<Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=668152&posted=1#post668152
<JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW cheers
<Burgundavia> salut JaneW 
<penguin_roar> hello there
<penguin_roar> any of you know a way to see where your users surf with firefox, without a proxy?
<JaneW> history?
<penguin_roar> join /ltsp
<penguin_roar> didnt get much sleep last night...
<penguin_roar> anyone awake this hour?
<jsgotangco> hear me roar
<mhz> Anyone knows if iptables is broken or something in Breezy?
<mhz> Anyone having problems with NAT?
<juliux> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi juliux 
<tarbazli> hi all
<tarbazli> i installed edubuntu an trying ltsp
<ogra> ah, finally, hi
<tarbazli> when i run ltspconfig
<ogra> did you read the install notes ? 
<tarbazli> it said everything is ok 
<tarbazli> only xdmcp not installed
<ogra> ltspconfig breaks everything 
<ogra> its a bug that its available 
<ogra> ubuntu ltsp doesnt use xdmcp ...
<ogra> we use ssh instead 
<tarbazli> how can i setup ssh then
<tarbazli> excuse me ogra
<tarbazli> where is the install notes ?
<tarbazli> i want to read it
<ogra> its all set up after install, you only need to edit the dhcpd.conf 
<ogra> see the channel topic
<tarbazli> i see
<tarbazli> my network is 10.0.0.0 kind
<ogra> i'd really suggest a reinstall if you didnt tweak to much yet 
<ogra> since ltspadmin will likely have broken your ltsp setup
<tarbazli> ogra my english is poor
<mhz> tarbazli: where are you from?
<ogra> where are you from ? 
<ogra> heh
<tarbazli> i understand "we musnt use ltspadmin and ltspconfig"
<tarbazli> is that true ?
<ogra> yes
<tarbazli> i am from turkey
<ogra> they are tools for the classic ltsp which we dont use 
<mhz> oops, I dont speak that lang.
<ogra> edubuntu has a new ltsp ...
<tarbazli> i see
<mhz> tarbazli: Edubuntu does almost everything for you to NOT worry about LTSP
<mhz> :)
<ogra> using ssh, not xdmcp
<ogra> for security
<tarbazli> i wonder why edubuntu programmer add ltspadmin and ltspconfig inside in edubuntu
<tarbazli> i understand
<ogra> its a bug ...
<ogra> i missed that the dependency was there ... sorry 
<tarbazli> may i delete it ?
<ogra> its fixed in the next release
<ogra> no
<tarbazli> mhz : thanks
<tarbazli> ok
<ogra> you cant, the new ltsp accidently depends on it
<ogra> just dont use them
<tarbazli> ok i wont use them
<tarbazli> i understand
<ogra> :)
<tarbazli> now i am trying open a client
<tarbazli> a sec please
<tarbazli> it says
<tarbazli> "Me: 10.0.0.200, dhcp: 10.0.0.2, tftp: 10.0.0.2, gateway: 10.0.0.254
<tarbazli> searching for server (dhcp)
<tarbazli> tftp error 1
<tarbazli> file not found
<tarbazli> :(
<ogra> yes its broken
<ogra> like i said, its not easy to fix 
<tarbazli> what must i do now
<tarbazli> if you tell
<ogra> if you can do a reinstall and just follow the install notes
<tarbazli> then i will do it
<tarbazli> yes
<ogra> only edit the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file after installing
<tarbazli> ogra i understand you
<tarbazli> but i am new on linux
<tarbazli> i like it very much
<tarbazli> and i want to learn it
<ogra> great :)
<tarbazli> if i work to fix that problem then i can learn lot of about linux
<tarbazli> do you know a document about that problem 
<ogra> there is no document about that 
<tarbazli> then have yo0u got time ?
<ogra> you would need to undo all changes that ltspadmin did to your system 
<ogra> i have no idea what it did ...
<ogra> i dont work with the old ltsp ...
<tarbazli> ogra: my client display says a problem image file
<tarbazli> i think there is aproblem tftp setup
<ogra> yes, as i said, it tries to use the old ltsp mixed with the new ltsp 
<ogra> you wont be able to upgrade, even if you get it working, it will break with the next security update 
<tarbazli> but i update and upgrade few minut ago
<tarbazli> ogra: is tftp send file inside /var/lib/tftp/ltsp ?
<ogra> the normal edubuntu ltsp does that, yes
<ogra> classic ltsp does it somewhere else
<tarbazli> mine is not normal ?
<mhz> nope
<ogra> if you run ltspadmin, you break it
<tarbazli> i see
<tarbazli> i will format and clean isntall
<ogra> pieces are classic and pieces are new ltsp
<mhz> tarbazli: Edubuntu is using a modified LTSP
<mhz> (for better)
<ogra> mhz, s/modified/new implemented/
<mhz> oh, yes
<tarbazli> i understand
<hannes_> hello
<mhz> hello
<hannes_> W're currently renewing some computer classes in my school
<hannes_> and thought about installing edubuntu
<hannes_> (free-use classes)
<hannes_> or not renewing
<ogra> cool :)
<hannes_> but have to do something as the current windows installations are becoming unstable
<hannes_> and I'd have a few questions about it
<hannes_> what is the easiest way to access local devices?
<hannes_> or is there any?
<ogra> nope, not yet 
<hannes_> such as fdd and cd-drives
<hannes_> ok
<ogra> ltsp.org has some different implementations you can use 
<ogra> but there is none included by default
<ogra> we'll have it by default in the october release
<hannes_> ah, ok
<hannes_> is thee any user imput required if booting from PXE (at boot time)
<ogra> what exactly do you mean with "user input" ?
<hannes_> well, what is required, if it is ser as the primary booting method in BIOS?
<hannes_> *set
<ogra> nothing :)
<ogra> you just boot 
<ogra> and get a login screen afterwards :)
<hannes_> that sounds good enough
<hannes_> what class should the server be when powering 8-10 clients
<hannes_> and what should be concidered in the hardware-side on the server?
<ogra> a rule of thumb is 100-128MB per client on the server and 256MB for the server itself 
<ogra> the CPU as fast as you can afford, it should be > 1Ghz
<hannes_> yes
<ogra> so for 10 clients 1-1.5G is necessary ...
<hannes_> yes
<ogra> the clients should be >300Mhz and have 64MB or more
<hannes_> ogra: well, the clients are 466/566MHz celerons with 64/96/128MB of memory
<ogra> great, sounds perfect
<hannes_> and I'm thinking 100Mbps networking is enough
<ogra> yup
<ogra> just dont run 10M coax :)
<hannes_> We're having a meeting about it next week, and I'll have to set up a test machine by then, If there is something I'll need to ask I'll come here
<ogra> yup, great ...
<ogra> see the install notes before installing ...
<hannes_> yes
<hannes_> and you can run X on the server, right? 
<hannes_> hmm
<ogra> it starts by default ...
<hannes_> ok
<ogra> you can disable it if needed :)
<hannes_> ok
<hannes_> well, thanks for now
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<pc22> hi ogra 
<pc22> seen yagi?
<ogra> not today yet, nope
<jsgotangco> its probably 2am on his side at the moment
<jsgotangco> :P
<ogra> thats no reason at all :)
<jsgotangco> heh you don't even need sleep
<pc22> ah
<jkeel> hi
<jkeel> does anyone here use Kanagram in KDE?
<jkeel> (I wrote it, and I'm just trying to figure out how much usage it's getting)
<phos-phoros> not yet jkeel, but I'm sure my kids will enjoy it once I finish downloading/installing edubuntu on their pc
<ogra_> jkeel, its included in the next edubuntu release by default
<jkeel> ah, excellent
<jkeel> ogra_: so it's not there yet, but will be
<jkeel> ?
<jkeel> (I couldn't find a package listing on edubuntu.org)
<ogra_> err, its there 
<ogra_> wasnt it renames ? 
<ogra_> *renamed
<jkeel> yeah, rewritten and renamed from KMessedWords to Kanagram
<ogra_> we ship kmessedwords in the last release and kanagram in the next :)
<jkeel> ah :)
<ogra_> since kanagram didnt exist when we did our last release in october :)
<jkeel> right :)
<jkeel> ogra_: is there any educational software you'd like to see created. I have a project in mind, but I'm also looking around some for a new project
<phos-phoros> could someone tell me what window manager this is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/EdubuntuRelatedPhotos?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=b2175_screen_wmaker.jpg
<jkeel> looks like Window Maker
<ogra_> jkeel, thats rather a question for the mailing list, i'm the guy who throws it all together, but not the best to decide about edu apps ... :)
<ogra_> phos-phoros, thats the desktop of mhz_Vuelvo2hrs :) 
<ogra_> window maker ...
<phos-phoros> thanks
<jelkner> ogra_: ollie, is that you?
<jelkner> i just flight tested flight-3
<jelkner> the mother flew just fine
<jelkner> but not the little birds
<ogra_> jelkner, did you remember to add next-server ? 
<jelkner> no
<jelkner> where?
<ogra_> in the dhcpd config
<jelkner> the only change i made was in /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
<jelkner> the clients get an address
<ogra_> add next-server <serverip> to /etc/ltsp/dhcp.conf
<jelkner> but they hang on "Trying to load pxelinux.cfg...
<steelballz> Can anyone help with a ltsp question
<jelkner> ogra_: anywhere special?
<ogra_> just somewhere where all the other stuff is, the order is your choice
<jelkner> ok, let me try
<ogra_> steelballz, whats the prob  ?
<steelballz> I am getting an error when installing flight 3. the error is "Build LTSP chroot failed"
<ogra> what architecture ? 
<steelballz> amd 64 dual core 3800+
<ogra> hmm, thats shouldnt happem
<ogra> thats directly in the installer ? 
<steelballz> yes
<steelballz> I did run the cdrom error check and there is an error would you like me to get that error? The file seems unrelated though
<ogra> oh, then your media is broken 
<ogra> at which speed did you write the disk ? 
<steelballz> That's what I thought but I downloaded it 2 more times including the daily version with the exact same results. I even burned a disk at 4x. I also tried 3 different discs. It appears to be an error in the image.
<ogra> amd64 or i386 image ? 
<steelballz> The server and workstation installs work fine
<steelballz> amd54
<ogra> hmm, worked fine here during the tests
<ogra> a broken file sounds very suspicious like a broken CD, are yoou sure your CDRom is ok ? 
<steelballz> Is there a way I can run the workstation install and then install the ltsp after? Can you remind me of the install command. also will it properly build the i386 directory for the ltsp clients?
<steelballz> I have even tried 3 dirrent cd drives dor burning and reading
<ogra> you must run it manually anyway on amd64, by default the host arch is used in the installer 
<ogra> so you need to run ltsp-build-client manually with --arch i386 post install
<ogra> (unless you use amd64 clients :) )
<steelballz> So this error I am getting is the attempt to build the i386 directory?
<ogra> it doesnt attmpt to build i386 on amd64 
<ogra> it builds amd64 
<ogra> thats what i mean, you need to run sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 andway to build the i386 chroot 
<steelballz> gotcha
<ogra> s/andway/anyway/
<steelballz> Should I run the workstation install and the run apt get to obtain the ltsp server and then run the i386 command?
<lucasvo> ogra: can you send me your ppc chroot?
<lucasvo> ogra: I can't install edubuntu on it :P
<lucasvo> it would be much easier
<ogra> why ?
<lucasvo> ogra: I have problems with my hd
<ogra> dont you have a breezy liveCD ? 
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> not ppc
<steelballz> orga: I really wanted to get this working. Just so you know I checked all 3 seperate downloads and none of them match your md5sum. I really think your uploaded image is bad.
<ogra> thats automatically uploaded by the build system ...
<ogra> i downloaded the same image and tested it on 3 arches, are you sure you downloaded flight3 and not a dily image ? 
<steelballz> I tried both
<steelballz> Hang on I will find the path i used
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-3/
<ogra> thats the path ...
<steelballz> orga: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-3/dapper-install-amd64.iso
<ogra> cab68293e0dc7da1035676bdfb61a72e
<ogra> and thats the md5sum i get for the downloaded iso here
<steelballz> I get a different md5sum. would you like the number?
<ogra> nope 
<ogra> its enough to know that you get a different one 
<ogra> something is surely wrong ... do you have a proxy involved in the network connection  ?
<steelballz> If you want I could download the 32bit version and see what happens
<steelballz> No Iam dirrectly connected to the internet at home
<steelballz> I am using a sofaware box (checkpoint) I am a firewall admin
<ogra> hmm, very strange ...
<ogra> but i definately get the right file here ...
<steelballz> Should I try a torrent. I avoid thouse because they take so long
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060116/
<ogra> that will disapper tonight if the next daily is built, its identical with flight3
<ogra> try downloading this one 
<steelballz> Ok i will try it. Will you be around in another half hour? Thanks : )
<ogra> might be ... i cant promise it :)
<steelballz> Ok thanks
<steelballz> Orga: I have been testing Centos 4.2 64 bit version with ltsp and FC4 version of ltsp and they both automatically creat the i386 directory because most if not all clients that would be connecting to a ltsp server would be 32 bit. Do you ever plan on setting it up this way?
<ogra> zjaz depends how much change to the installer is involved, i havent looked at it yet
<ogra> s/zjaz/that/
<steelballz> Orga: I also get the same error with the 20060119
<Burgwork> ogra, that was a very interesting typo
<ogra> my right hand was shifted one key to the right :)
<ogra> steelballz, the isos after the 20060116 one are all not tested
<ogra> and the latest ones are overflown and this broken, 20060119 surely wont work
<ogra> s/this/thus/
<steelballz> ok
<jelkner> ogra: FYI: the little birds fly ;-)
<ogra> thats what i expected :)
<jelkner> the first time i booted after adding next-server i only got to # prompt
<jelkner> so i rebooted the client and it got to X
<jelkner> looks great!
<ogra> jelkner, ltspfs and ltspfsd were upgraded to the latest version yesterday, you can install them from universe and use the ltsp.org scripts with them for local device support
<lucasvo> jelkner: I have exactlz the same problem
<jelkner> wow!
<jelkner> that is awesome news!
<ogra> jelkner, oh, and please have a look at pida its far beyond idle but very similar imho
<jelkner> ogra: thanks a 10**6!
<jelkner> ok, i'll check out pida
<jelkner> i've been using drpython
<ogra> isnt that wxpython based ? 
<jelkner> but i've been corresponding with stani michaels about spe
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> stani might be adding something to spe for me that would make me switch.
<ogra> thats a blocking factor for main ... or at least a difficulty
<jelkner> for now, yes?
<jelkner> but eventually, all the cool python stuff is going that way
<ogra> i have no crystal ball here :)
<ogra> sure for now :)
<jelkner> pythoncard is wxpython based too
<jelkner> spe is as well
<ogra> yup
<jelkner> the future standard gui toolkit for python seems to be wxpython
<jelkner> not everyone loves it
<ogra> in ubuntu its pygtk ...
<jelkner> hmm...
<ogra> the problem might be security related, i dont know ... and its an ugly beast to maintain as a package ...
<jelkner> which, wxpython or pygtk?
<ogra> wxpython
<jelkner> ok, i need to run to another school
<jelkner> talk to you later...
<ogra> ciao
<jelkner> thanks again!
<lucasvo> ogra: so, why did jelkner and me have to reboot the machine because of some strange root console?
<ogra> huh ? 
<lucasvo> he said:
<lucasvo> 19:56 < jelkner> the first time i booted after adding next-server i only got to # prompt
<lucasvo> 19:56 < jelkner> so i rebooted the client and it got to X
<ogra> ah, thats the nfs timeout
<ogra> still needs a debugging session
<lucasvo> good
<hannes_> 2057.02 < ogra> jelkner, ltspfs and ltspfsd were upgraded to the latest version yesterday, you can install them from universe and use the ltsp.org scripts with them for local device support2057.02 < ogra> jelkner, ltspfs and ltspfsd were upgraded to the latest version yesterday, you can install them from universe and use the ltsp.org scripts with them for local device support
<hannes_> oops
<hannes_> sorry
<ogra> heh
<juliux> ogra, ping
<ogra> lucasvo, did you reboot or restart the nfs server when you changed the next-server option? or did you only restart dhcpd ? 
<ogra> juliux, pong
<mhz> ogra: how many canonical hired developers are there currently? any list I can see? (to know who is not hired by canonical)
<juliux> ogra, do you have a short text about what edubuntu is?
<Burgwork> mhz, on edubuntu, only ogra with matt did some work on ltsp early on
<lucasvo> ogra: no, every time I start up, I have to do it 2 times
<lucasvo> I get the strange console, ->ctrl+alt+del
<ogra> mhz, i have no clue, the distro team might be 15 or 20 the launchpad team are some more iirc
<mhz> Burgwork: ok, so that's 2. But in total (Ubuntu and official projects)?
* lucasvo isn't hired from canonical 
<lucasvo> :P
<mhz> lucasvo: hehehe
<Burgwork> mhz, 15 maybe. The dapper development report will give an exact number, as they are all required to be at those meeting
<lucasvo> anybody know how to add images into illustrator?
<ogra> Burgwork, there are also community contributors that have feature goals
<ogra> so there are more people on that list
<Burgwork> ogra, yes
<mhz> Burgwork: any idea where I can get that report? wiki?
<Burgwork> mhz, it goes to -announce each week, I think
<ogra> its sent weekly to the -announce list
<Burgwork> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-January/000056.html
<mhz> Burgwork: oh, right, thx. (iirc log is more difficult because many ohters attend those meetings -even myself)
<Burgwork> ogra, yes, but you can generally sort out the community from the canonical, as the community have one goal and the you lot have about 10 billion each
<mhz> indeed :D
<ogra> heh
<steelballz> ogra: I tried what you said with 20060116 and I got the same error
<steelballz> ogra: are you still there?
<steelballz> Is anyone here?
<mhz> steelballz: what's the problem?
* mhz hasn't read backlogs
<vmarks> no
<steelballz> I downloaded and ran the install per ogra's request and it still fails
<ogra> steelballz, does the md5sum match now  ?
<steelballz> Let me check
<steelballz> yes
<steelballz> I am trying the 32 bit right now
<steelballz> ogra: the 32bit works fine. Interesting
<ogra> what about the md5 ? 
<steelballz> For the 32 bit?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> for the one we compared before indeed
<steelballz> I replied above. The 20060116 matched
<ogra> ah, i misse dthe yes
<ogra> but it still didnt install ? 
<steelballz> Is there a debug mode install I can run during install to pinpoint the problem?
<ogra> could you look what fails on tty3 if you get the error ? 
<steelballz> No it failed in the same spot
<steelballz> OK
<ogra> tty3 will have the output from the ltsp builder
<ogra> it should clearly state the error
<steelballz> Give me one second I want to let the 32 bit complete. Thanks
<steelballz> The 32 bit installed completely with no issues. i am running the 64 bit right now
<steelballz> I have the error. There is a lot of info
<steelballz> The main error is "E: Couldn't find the package xresprobe
<steelballz> Ogra: are you still on?
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> xresprobe should be on the disk, i didnt get that error here
<steelballz> Is there an easy way for me to check that it in on the disk?
<ogra> yup, look in /pool/main/x
<ogra> (on the cd)#
<ogra> the testreport doesnt mention xresprobe for that build 
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060116/report.html
<steelballz> what do you mean?
<ogra> there is a test report for the iso in the daily dir ...
<ogra> it shows the packages that didnt work ...
<ogra> (see the url)
<ogra> xresprobe isnt listed there, it should be on the Cd ... and as i said, i didnt have that error here 
<steelballz> Pardon my stupidity but you are saying I am SOL?
<ogra> but no reason to worry for you, since you dont want an amd64 chroot anyway
<ogra> just jump over the ltsp step 
<ogra> finish the installation and set up ltsp manually for i386
<ogra> its pretty easy ...
<steelballz> cool. Just for reference do you have a link that I can use for guiding me throught the LTSP install?
<ogra> the if you hit ok on the error in the forst tty you'll get to a menu, just go to the next step after the ltsp stuff and go on with the install
<ogra> yup
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowto
<ogra> thats a very detailed instruction set 
<ogra> you'll only need the ltsp-build-client step ...
<steelballz> Well you taught me to make sure I examine the testreport
<steelballz> awesome thanks
<ogra> tftp dhcp and ssh should be preconfigured
<steelballz> what flavor ltsp are you at. 4.4.?
<ogra> note that the --arch option isnt documented yet ...
<ogra> ubuntu ltsp ;)
<ogra> its a completely new implementation based on ssh 
<steelballz> lol
<steelballz> will sound work on the clients?
<ogra> ltsp.org just adopts it as the muecow concept for their next version
<ogra> you need to set SOUND = Y in the lts.conf for the clients ...
<ogra> (its neither documented yet)
<steelballz> You have been very helpful thanks. Your support blows away Centos and FC
<ogra> thanks :) 
<ogra> thanks for giving feedback ... testers giving good feedbackl are rare :)
<ogra> btw, if you want to set up the i386 chroot a bit faster, mount the i386 cd 
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> what dropped me ..
<ogra> i was about to say:
<ogra> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror file:///cdrom
<ogra> then your chroot is built in less than 10 min
<ogra> else it will build it from the net, which takes up to 45min, depending on yur web connection
<steelballz> ogra: I ran the client build but it only installed amd64. How do i install the i386?
<ogra_> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror file:///cdrom
<ogra_> (mount the i386 cd before)
<steelballz> oh yeah sorry
<penguin_roar> Hey, found out howto set the default save format in OO to MS format.
<penguin_roar> Boy do i feel stupid
<penguin_roar> To set it just change /etc/openoffice/openoffice.conf and all users gets the settings
<penguin_roar> If its needed im interested in helping out with the documentation, i stumble upon things like this all day =)
<Burgwork> penguin_roar, talk to kjcole and jelkner
<penguin_roar> ok, ill grab them when i see them, thanks
<penguin_roar> heh, they sure set the goals high in the Edubuntu Cookbook, Downloading the internet. Pretty tedious task :D
<mhz> penguin_roar: and you could start making those docs in the wiki, in the meantime :)
#edubuntu 2006-01-25
<signifer123> Hey
<signifer123> how do you guys feel about realbasic?
<signifer123> or...bbl
<selmys> I need help with ltsp - anyone here using this on edubuntu?
<yennyKa> Hello!!!!!!
<yennyKa> it wanted to ask some aspects on edubuntu....
<Burgwork> selmys, it is a core part of edubuntu
<selmys> burgwork, yes, the default edubuntu install includes ltsp.
<Burgwork> selmys, hence your question was odd
<selmys> not sure what you mean?
<Burgwork> selmys, selmys I need help with ltsp - anyone here using this on edubuntu?
<selmys> although it's part of edubuntu, it's not necessary to use it. I guess I'm still not being clear.
<lguerra> hi, someone has work with apple quadra 605 in linux?, my university send one to the trash, and i want run edubuntu thinclient in this machine
<earobinson> Anyone know how to recover a lost freeenode password? freenode site is down :(
<Burgundavia> earobinson, I think #staff is where to ask
<earobinson> thanks
<earobinson> room looks empty
<earobinson> ?
<Burgundavia> try #freenod
<earobinson> cant talk in there I dont have voice
<earobinson> and I cant pm ne one because i need to be a user to do that
<Burgundavia> hmm, stuck
<earobinson> if you could do it for me that would be great
<earobinson> ?
<Burgundavia> JaneW, to make an internal wiki link with a different text to the name, use [:PageName:The displayed link name] 
<JaneW> Burgundavia: I know thanks... was multi-tasking and added it else where and to an e-mail, I'll fix shortly
<JaneW> Burgundavia: you made any screen casts yet?
<Burgundavia> JaneW, between work and writing, I have no time
<Burgundavia> talk to me next year ;)
<Burgundavia> JaneW, I have already fixed your links ;)
<JaneW> Burgundavia: ditto :), and thanks for fixing links, I appreciate it...
<Burgundavia> JaneW, np. It is amazing how time can simply disappear so quickly.
<JaneW> NOD
<JaneW> throw in a cuple of kids, and you have no idea! ;)
<JaneW> couple even
<Burgundavia> for instance, it is now 2am here. I have to get up to be at work at 9am and I still haven't finished what I needed to do today
<JaneW> ouch
<Yagisan> G'day mhz
<mhz> hey Yagisan 
<mhz> Yagisan: how's the family?
<Yagisan> mhz: wife still not healed, otherwise ok. Mother-in-law recovering well from operation
<mhz> i am happy for you
<Yagisan> mhz: thank you
<Yagisan> mhz: very happy with myself re my website
<mhz> heheh, I have seen it
<mhz> actually, lguerra, a colombian guy from edubuntu-es
<mhz> is very interested in security
<mhz> and I have already told him to contact you
<mhz> sorry I took the liberty
<mhz> :)
<Yagisan> mhz: thank you :)
<mhz> yw
<Yagisan> mhz: he does know I can't speak spanish right ?
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> yes :)
<mhz> (well, if not... security issues are universal :D )
<Yagisan> mhz: ok - didn't want to disappoint him
<mhz> you can't, you are too good for that ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: I do hope in future, we can continue with our discussions wrt eg tecnocimento etc
* mhz hopes that too
<mhz> but so far... we've had ssooooo many problems with stupid details.. that our head are focused on solving them
<Yagisan> mhz: I understand
<Yagisan> mhz: but my new site looks rather professional now ;)
* mhz has even spent almost 3 days solving stupid details on his homeserver
<mhz> Yagisan: indeed
<mhz> I took a look yesterday
<Yagisan> mhz: last tweak I did was to get mod_deflate working on apache2 - it now compresses css, js, and html before sending it
<Yagisan> mhz: and mod_rewrite redirects all old pages to the new ones
<mhz> very nice, so users will feel it very fast?
<Yagisan> mhz: subjectively yes - but it's still on a slow upstream
<mhz> Yagisan: do you remember my 840 MB CD's
<mhz> ?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes
<mhz> sorry, 870 MB
<mhz> well, they work on the same CD drive Dapper F2 didn't
<mhz> :)
<Yagisan> :)
<mhz> Yagisan: so eventhought i understand your explanation about the manufacturer using a 'special way' to make a 700 MB a 870 MB one, it seems that for these CD s to work, it is also important the ISO generated before burning. Otherwise, I can't explain why it works now and it didn't before.
<mhz>  (i used same command line)
<mhz> the iso was the only diff
<Yagisan> mhz: it most likely burnt in a slightly different spot that was easier to read
<Yagisan> night all
<mhz> night Yagisan 
<Petaris> for an ltsp server would it be advisable to use the x86 over the amd64?
<Petaris> For the edubuntu branch
<Petaris> My server:
<Petaris> Dual Opteron 244, 8 GB RAM, 2x160 GB SATA hdd in hardware raid 1 (LSI Megaraid)
<Petaris> My Clients:
<Petaris> VIA 1GHz, 128 MB RAM
* Petaris wonders if he could get Edubuntu LTSP installed and configured in an hour
<Petaris> Hi mhz
<mhz> Petaris: hi
<mhz> hmmm, I have only used X86
<mhz> but I know people have used AMD
<Petaris> I'm thinking it would be safer to use x86
<mhz> Petaris: the only thing I can tell you about HW requirements is:
<mhz> Server: 256 RAM + 128 p/client you attach to it, and a minimum 1GHz processor
<mhz> in which case you have plenty :D
<Petaris> yeah, I'm running k12ltsp ATM, but I can not get it to boot with 8 GB RAM, only with 4 GB
<mhz> and if the NIC's of each client have PXE, then yes, in less than 1 hour you should be ready
<mhz> Petaris: ooh, good point
<mhz> unfortunately my testing environment have been less, much less every week
<mhz> :(
<mhz> and the top RAM I've had on server is 512
<mhz> so.. no idea about issues over 4 GB of RAM :)
<Petaris> Have the client boot issues been resolved?
<mhz> which?
<mhz> sound?
<Petaris> mhz: I traced it to a problem fixed in 2.6.5 that still exists in 2.6.12-fc3
<mhz> ohhh
<Petaris> mhz: no, the issue with the client booting halting the first time its booted
<mhz> well, I can send you the Flight 3 notification for Edubuntu by email if needed?
<Petaris> Flight 3?
* mhz still can't test Flight 3
<mhz> Petaris: yes. Releases in their way to become Dapper
<mhz> :)
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> I need something solid
<Petaris> This is a production box
<mhz> want me to send you the email about the release?
<Petaris> sure
<mhz> Petaris: I have used Edubuntu breezy in production environement since released
<mhz> but not as thin clients
<Petaris> does it work well with xfce4?
<mhz> only as regular dektop/laptop
<mhz> I use it with XFCE and Wmaker ALL the time
<Petaris> I wish ogra was here
<Petaris> mhz: cool
<mhz> my main objective is towards Edubuntu lite
<Petaris> ahh
<mhz> Petaris: mail address?
<Petaris> I need to get the important stuff off that server
<mhz> Petaris: Edubuntu is 100% Ubuntu
<mhz> so server is good 
<Petaris> damn, my inet connection is dragging
<mhz> but if you want me to tell you about client behaviour... no idea yet
<Petaris> grr, looks like I'll have to wait to grab it
<Petaris> Its downloading @ 55Kbs
<Petaris> mhz: thanks for the input, and I got the email
<mhz> good, I and sorry I couldnt help more
<Petaris> I truly hate fedora core
* mhz hasnt tried RPMs in 4 years
<Petaris> later guys
#edubuntu 2006-01-26
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<michael__> hey
<michael__> ye again what is your guys stance on realbasic?
<mhz> michael__: I have no idea about realbasic
<mhz> sorry
<michael__> k...
<michael__> well for apps for this project you feel it would be ok to use java,realbasic or jsut stick with realbasic?
<michael__> i mean last part c and gtk
<michael__> well for apps for this project you feel it would be ok to use java,realbasic or jsut stick with c and gtk?
<mhz> you mean edu-apps?
<michael__> yeah apps for edubuntu...
<michael__> becuase i only know web languages and c and realbasic
<mhz> well, edubuntu is designed to include apps in the CD but there are tons of other edu-apps that can be used
<michael__> well do you feel java based apps are ok?
<michael__> or perhaps a web app?
<michael__> just to contibute to it :-P
<mhz> both are fine
<mhz> obviously
<mhz> the faster the better
<mhz> the lessrequirements the better
<michael__> well ajva doesn't come with it, and nor deos apache..then realbasic some peole flip over :-P
<mhz> remember LTPS is forwarding x via ssh
<mhz> however, my guess is you contact Oliver (ogra) and discuss this with him
<mhz> and also visit #ubuntu-motu
* mhz phone
<michael__> whens ogra get on?
<mhz> re
<mhz> usually here almost everyday all time
<mhz> BUT these last 2 days :D
<michael__> yeah i noticed i checked yesterday
<michael__> well at least you were here
<mhz> he lives in Germany so I guess esp. during his time
<mhz> heehe
<mhz> but I am not great help or guide for your questions
<michael__> yes you are...
<michael__> adn definatly more than the others
<michael__> :-p
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> maybe it's been a matter of timings
<michael__> maybe....
<michael__> i jsut realized the app i wanted ot amke was just overshadowed by something already in edubuntu
<mhz> oh
<michael__> o well...
<michael__> what could i make...
<michael__> flash+php?
<michael__> seems liek a mroe logical option
<mhz> flash?
<mhz> no pleas
<michael__> yeah...
<mhz> e
<michael__> lol
<michael__> js?
<michael__> or jsut phph and html?
<michael__> but what?
<mhz> hmmm
<michael__> whats wrong with flash anyway?
* mhz prefers html
<michael__> o ok
<michael__> wel lwhat would be useful?
<michael__> well*
<michael__> web calc?
<michael__> like algebrator but in html and js or ph
<michael__> php
<michael__> sound good?
<mhz> as much as you can would be useful
<mhz> the more we have, the better
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> which reminds me
<mhz> wiki:EdubuntuStudyContent
<mhz> duh
* mhz phone again!
<michael__> lol
<michael__> or the msot evil thing ever!!!
<michael__> rate yuor teacher but only insdie your school
<michael__> and everytime s student coments it would bug the teachers computer about it
<michael__> :-p
<mhz> michael__: there is this very important tool going on
<mhz> SchoolTool
<mhz> running on :7080
<mhz> maybe you could help them get the thing done
<michael__> that?
<michael__> thoghut that was python...
<michael__> whast the username?
<michael__> \/pass
<mhz> hmmm
* mhz getting logs
<michael__> k
<michael__> :-p
<mhz> it is python and html I guess
<michael__> isn't it python, i'm not very good at python io'm just php/js/html/flash/jsp
<mhz> ohh
<michael__> :-p
<mhz> maybe you can help integrating it with either .LRN or Moodle or Claroline
<michael__> ?
<michael__> how would that go about?
<michael__> SchoolTool is written in the Python language, using the Zope 3 web framework.  The code is extensively tested with unit and functional tests.  If you're interested in getting involved in SchoolTool development, check the code out of our repository, have a look around, drop in on our irc channel, and fix a few bugs.
<mhz> yep, but th1a has told me they may consider some integration with Moodle or Claroline
<mhz> in #schooltool
<mhz> Yagisan: HI!!!
<mhz> I was just thinking of you!
<Yagisan> mhz: really ? cool
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> I am in #schooltool
<mhz> and th1a told me: mhz th1a: hmmm not yet but I guess I 'll have to start knowing about ZODB
<mhz> mhz any good tips and suggestions why I'd better know about ZODB ?
<mhz> th1a Well, it allows you to just focus on writing Python code.  You make Python objects that subclass the Persistent class, and they become persistent.
<Yagisan> mhz: what's up ?
<mhz> and I couldn't stop the laugh
<mhz> that was japaneese to my ears :D
* Yagisan is cleaning my office
<mhz> Yagisan: also, I have just installed breezy for a small homeserver I'll have to use to host tecnocimiento.cl
* Yagisan has 300 cds and dvds to securely destroy
<Yagisan> mhz: nice
<mhz> and I was about doing the NAT stuff it did not work yesterday on a homebox
<Yagisan> mhz: If you run into any issues, let me know
<Yagisan> mhz: need a firewall script ?
<mhz> I thought just 2 lines would do
<mhz> unless you strongly suggested I was nuts
<mhz> my main issue was that either my DHCP worked or NAT, but not the 2 together :(
<Yagisan> mhz: using the dhcp on your adsl router ?
<mhz> so I'm loging in now to see what happens this time ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: hahaha, not any more
<Yagisan> mhz: good - I was about to suggest not to use it
<mhz> I have a ISP (Modem provide DHCP) and a hub like thing with 8 NICs
<mhz> and the homeserver has 2 NIC's
<mhz> my original idea is 1 NIC for local and 1 NIC for outside
<Yagisan> mhz: yep, that's a nice start
<mhz> but maybe I could just use 1 NIC for both traffics
<Yagisan> mhz: two nics !!!!
<mhz> and use the other NIC on a small box
<mhz> oooh, okis
* mhz must be obedient with experts
<Yagisan> mhz: mine is adsl modem -> firewall/server -> switch -> other pcs
<mhz> yeah! a switch is what i have
<mhz> cable modem -> server -> switch laptops
<mhz> cable modem -> server -> switch -> laptops
<Yagisan> :)
<mhz> but the damn M$ laptop of my wife always gives troubles
<Yagisan> mhz: I used to run a dhcp server on my firewall box, but I moved it to the ltsp server
<Yagisan> mhz: why does she need windows
<Yagisan> ?
<mhz> Yagisan: well, this homeserver will have to be Edubuntu LTSP and hosting for TC
<mhz> Yagisan: in a worl of gates?
<mhz> +d
<Yagisan> mhz: all I need on my server now is a bittorent tracker and seeder
<mhz> Yagisan: she only keeps it because she needs to generate DWG's files (AutoCAD)
<mhz> (though she'd prefer MiniCAD)
<Yagisan> mhz: ouch :(
<mhz> yeah, I'd love to have a server server
<mhz> not a server for LTSP + hosting pages
<mhz> but well.. sheeps happen
<mhz> ;)
* mhz is editing interfaces
<Yagisan> mhz: perhaps xen, uml, or linux vservers could help. If it makes you feel better, my server does multiple roles too
<mhz> hehhehe
* mhz is not alone
<mhz> well, one of my dreams is to provide low cost UserModeLinux hosting for geeks
<Yagisan> mhz: you'd be shocked if you new how many things I run on that server
<Yagisan> s/new/knew
<mhz> as longas it is not porn server ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: how long did it take you to set your Zope env.?
<Yagisan> mhz: while I may have the hard drive space for that, I lack the bandwidth - so yes, I'd have the most popular site on the web, until I'm DOSed right off the net by horny teenagers
<Yagisan> mhz: 20 minutes, after I practiced a few days in advance
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> with edubuntu box?
<Yagisan> mhz: what do you want to set up in zope ?
<mhz> iirc, edubuntu comes qirh zope ready
<Yagisan> mhz: ubuntu
<mhz> with
<mhz> Yagisan: just courious
<Yagisan> mhz: plone needs things installed in a certain order
<mhz> SchoolTool runs Zope 3 and python
<Yagisan> mhz: zope installs, but won't run until you create an instance
<mhz> ohhh
<Yagisan> mhz: Schooltool should set up a zope instance as it installs
<Yagisan> mhz: if not - file a bug ;)
<mhz> it works perfectly
<mhz> Yagisan: just courious
<mhz> Yagisan: once my interfaces are ok, can I manually config 'dhcp server' or it will conflict with Edubuntu once I install it (yes, I had to use Ubuntu cd )
<Yagisan> mhz: don't do dhcp yet
<mhz> okis
<Yagisan> mhz: install edubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: it should install a dhcp server
<mhz> yup
<Yagisan> mhz: configure that one instead
<mhz> hence I asked about 'conflict'
<Yagisan> mhz: and you are good to go
<mhz> okis
<Yagisan> mhz: because when you install edubuntu, it's dhcp settings take priority
<mhz> Yagisan: hmmmm
<mhz> little issue
<mhz> Yagisan: I have been at this laptop while the sytem was being installed on the homeserver
<Yagisan> mhz: ?
<mhz> iin order to install edubuntu desktop and server, I need to connect modem to homserver instead and I'd lose this communication and wiki editing I am on
<mhz> because I have only 1 NIC in the laptop
<mhz> Yagisan: any 'gifted man ideas' ?
<Yagisan> mhz: hmm
<Yagisan> mhz: well - yes, but I doubt you have the hardware there
<Yagisan> mhz: we *can* turn your parallel port into a network interface
<Yagisan> mhz: but it's not that fast
<mhz> lol
<mhz> you are nuts
<Yagisan> mhz: well, I have the hardware here :) and once I built a cluster of systems daisy chained with parallel ports
<Yagisan> mhz: I'd finish up your work - then install edubuntu on the server
<mhz> yeah, it sounds less traumatic
<mhz> what if I used eth0:1
<mhz> or something?
<Yagisan> mhz: you may be able to set up sub-interfaces - but the "gifted man" takes the easy way out
<mhz> okis
<mhz> the padawan follows advice
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Yagisan> G'day Lord_Athur
<Lord_Athur> mhz, prac can be a good option, but i could not understand your instrucctions in the wiki (i've got bag english....)
<Lord_Athur> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> mhz - is it ethical of me to download 4.7GB of learning material in a torrent
<mhz> Lord_Athur: ahhh, Trac
<Yagisan> ?
<Lord_Athur> mhz, is there another program
<mhz> why not, Yagisan ?
<mhz> moin-desktop
<mhz> 3 minutes only
<Lord_Athur> but one a little easier (easyer or more easy)
<mhz> no apache
<Lord_Athur> ok
<mhz> Lord_Athur: need a url?
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> mhz, i'm not allowed to find good applications with my debian source list
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> i never find what i want
<Lord_Athur> xD
<Lord_Athur> i will have to change to an ubuntu based system soon
<Lord_Athur> then mhz, can't apache be a wiki?
<Lord_Athur> because apache is currently installed on the system
<Lord_Athur> :O
<mhz> Lord_Athur: moin-desktop does not use apache, nor SQL
<mhz> only moin-desktop
<mhz> 1) Download
<mhz> 2) unpack
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<mhz> 3) run it
<mhz> 5 mintues
<Lord_Athur> my debian aptitude system does not find it
<Lord_Athur> the moin-desktop or moin-server cannot be installer
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> but i installer Prac
<Lord_Athur> do i run it?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: not in repositories
<mhz> URL
<mhz> :)
<Lord_Athur> ap ok
<Lord_Athur> then, give me the link to install it
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> i installed Prac
<Lord_Athur> do i run it?
<mhz> Trac
<mhz> not Prac
<mhz> :)
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> verdad
<Lord_Athur> xD
<Lord_Athur> do i run it under a terminal environment?
<mhz> nope
<lshirota> does anybody know how to setup a dial-up account?
<mhz> lshirota: not me :(
<mhz> there's a tool forit
<lshirota> and what is that
<mhz> lshirota: I have never used it
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> the good news is that it is possible :)
<lshirota> ok
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Lord_Athur> mhz_ServerOff, i've decided to continue with apache for the documentation
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> is there a current version of edubuntu live cd?
<Lord_Athur> doesn't this exist?
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan, don't you know it?
<Lord_Athur> :P
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: sorry - was doing some work
<Lord_Athur> ok+
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: no live cd for breezy
<Lord_Athur> :O
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: should be one for dapper
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: live cd is a workstation install
<Lord_Athur> thanks Yagisan 
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: your welcome
<Lord_Athur> :D
<michael__> Hello
<lucasvo> will there be a GRUB with pictures in dapper?
<lucasvo> http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/~mcgrof/grub-images/ 
<lucasvo> like this
<michael__> don' think thats on main roadmap...
<michael__> wow there not much talk in here :-p
<penguin_roar> michael, were meditating ;D
<michael__> of course i'm sorry
<mhz> juliux, awake?
<juliux> mhz, yes
<mhz> juliux, could you help me see why i am so stupid i can't make NAT work, please?
<juliux> mhz, puh
<juliux> mhz, i can try it 
<mhz> it used to wrok just fine
<mhz> until I had to let the box go. Now, I got it back, installed Edubuntu and still no NAT, juliux 
<juliux> you have 2 NIC in the box right?
<juliux> and  2 different ip addressareas right?
<mhz> good point. I have:
<mhz> ISP modem -> homeserver (eth0) -> switch (eth1) -> laptops
<juliux> ok
<juliux> an on which rechner you want to do NAT?
<mhz> rechner?
<juliux> sorry on which computer
<mhz> form laptop to Edubuntu server 
<michael__> hey mhz
<mhz> michael__, hi there
<juliux> mhz,        iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE 
<juliux> mhz, that should work
<michael__> wow your setup looked like wha ti was tryign to do :-p
<juliux> mhz, eth0 is the outgoing device on the server
<michael__> eth0 ->wlan1 ->router -> isp
<mhz> juliux, that I do... unsuccessfully
<juliux> mhz, and you have to activate masquerading with this         echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<mhz> yup
<mhz> very typical NAT
<juliux> yes 
<mhz> not working for 10 hours
<juliux> hm
<juliux> strange
<mhz> yup
* mhz has scrathced his head so much he has no hippie hair now... only rasta
<mhz> :)
<juliux> but it was working right?
<mhz> when I lent the box
<mhz> when I got it back
<mhz> I installed everything again
<mhz> from breezy CD
<juliux> hm
<juliux> strange
<mhz> yup
<andrew_> hi all
<mhz> hi
<andrew_> im currently running 4 ubuntu breezy boxes here, and im thinking of putting edubuntu on my 8yr old sons box what will he have different?
<mhz_libre> nothing, except he'll get GCompris + other edu apps
<mhz_libre> like khangman
<mhz_libre> and, that box can be used for LTSP serving
<andrew_> is there an easy way to go from ubuntu breezy to edubuntu breezy?
<mhz_libre> yup
<andrew_> change sources.lst?
<mhz_libre> apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<mhz_libre> and apt-get install edubuntu-server
<andrew_> ah ok
<mhz_libre> if you want LTSP
<mhz_libre> edubuntu is 100% ubuntu
<andrew_> well i have a 3ghz p4 desktop that could run ltsp i would think
<mhz> indeed
<andrew_> i have been using it for xdmcp
<mhz> that's for your son?
<mhz> wow!
<mhz> I wanna be your son :D
<andrew_> no, he has a p4 2.8
<andrew_> :)
* mhz has only very old hardware for testing
<andrew_> i have quite a bit of p3 hardware
<mhz_libre> oh
<mhz_libre> nice
<mhz_libre> since
<andrew_> how does ltsp compare with xdmcp?
<mhz_libre> Edubuntu is cool from min. 1.xGHz processor, 256 RAM for server + 128 MB p/client attached to it
<mhz_libre> Edubuntu ltsp is forwarding ssh
<mhz_libre> and LTSP can be used for very thin clients (no HD)
<andrew_> does it run faster than xdmcp?
<mhz_libre> no idea
<andrew_> ok, np, i will try it out then
<mhz_libre> I have not tried yet
<andrew_> my wife works in education too so she is interested to see it
<mhz> great
<mhz> also, Edubuntu comes with SchoolTool ready to rock
<mhz> in localhost:8080
<michael__> mines not on port 8080 by default man
<mhz_libre> ?
<mhz_libre> /etc/init.d/schooltool start :)
<michael__> i ment imne on 9080...
<mhz> ohhhhhhhhhhh
<mhz> true
<michael__> :-p
<mhz> 70:80
<mhz> :7080
<michael__> yeah was before :-p
<michael__> 8080 is coldfusion... and other web services
<mhz> oh, coldfusion must be FreeAsInfreedom so people can get more energy
<michael__> of course it is...
<penguin_roar> what is schooltool?
<michael__> it is school planning tool
<michael__> http://www.schooltool.org/
<michael__> or if your running edubuntu
<michael__> 127.0.0.1:7080
<michael__> strangly enough i have no clue as to what the default password is
<michael__> they have irc #schooltool
<michael__> whats the schooltool pass and user?
<michael__> ...o
<BenGC> howdy
<michael__> of ocurse i miss the cahgne to say hi :-p
<michael__> hey
#edubuntu 2006-01-27
<michael__> hey mhz
<mhz> re
<michael__> re?
<mhz> hey
<michael__> :-p
<michael__> jsut found out how ot amke abrowser using libmozilla
<mhz> it is used to say "I know I said hi before so now I want to state I am back"
<michael__> make*
<michael__> o ok
* mhz will be back in 20 or 30 mins
<konfuzed> any moodle users here
<Yagisan> mhz, did you ever watch any iron chef ?
<mhz> Yagisan: hi there
<mhz> just the begining of the one I downloaded
* mhz has had no time to watch any video longer than 3 minutes ;)
<mhz> I got to the presentation parts
<Yagisan> mhz: which episode was it ?
<mhz> Yagisan: would you check the iptables setting I am using?
<Yagisan> mhz: sure
<mhz> Yagisan: hmmmm, not remember at this particular moment
<mhz> accept DCC?
<Yagisan> mhz: yes
<mhz> knocking on your door
<Yagisan> mhz: well, I clicked ok - and am waiting for the transfer to begin
<Yagisan> mhz: perhaps email ?
<mhz> okis
<mhz> Yagisan: is it down? http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi
<Yagisan> mhz: no
<Yagisan> mhz: but my upstream pipe has been getting hammered for 3 days now =-O
<mhz> Yagisan: a happy email is at your door
<Yagisan> mhz: want an easier solution ?
<mhz> heheheh sure
<Yagisan> mhz: arno's iptables firewall
<Yagisan> mhz: I'll find you a link
<mhz> oki
<mhz> but is the file ok?
<Yagisan> mhz: I run in on my box - customised a bit
<mhz> but is the file I sent ok?
<Yagisan> mhz: seems ok
<Yagisan> mhz: http://rocky.eld.leidenuniv.nl/iptables-firewall/arno-iptables-firewall-1.8.5-rc4.tgz
<Yagisan> mhz: there is a .deb here http://rocky.eld.leidenuniv.nl/iptables-firewall/arno-iptables-firewall_1.8.4d-1_all.deb
<Yagisan> but I've never used it
<Yagisan> actually - didn't know it existed until now
<mhz> :)
<mhz> okis, thx
<mhz> I'll take a look
<Yagisan> mhz: has an easy to adjust config file and works well
<Yagisan> mhz: no gui though, so prepare for the cli
<Yagisan> :)
<mhz> lol
<Yagisan> bye all - be back later
<Travis_> has anyone considered making a server version of edubuntu? with like ldap, a student information system, samba domain controller etc.? for schools to use on their server?
<Travis_> with really easy setup
<mhz> yes, Travis_ 
<Travis_> similar to novell stuff
<mhz> it's been discussed
<mhz> sometimes
<Travis_> is there any work in progress?
<mhz> not that I know of, but I do know it is in part a goal of SchoolTool
<Travis_> I am considering network administration as a career and I hate how much it costs to deploy a network using novell etc.
<mhz> me too
<Travis_> I tried setting up my own server with ldap
<Travis_> worked decent but I need to find a free student information system that would integreat well with LDAP
<Travis_> I have tons of ideas just no way to pursue them
<Travis_> schooltool looks kind of lacking
<mhz> actually, I had a 'customer' who payed me to show him and demo diff Linux based alternatives to his current IT solutions. In the end, his boss refused to migrate because they only were saving U$55,000 a year. That was not big deal because they made that much in 2 days
<Travis_> its just like a schedule
<mhz> so no need to worry endusers
<Travis_> yeah businesses that make tons of money I can understand paying
<mhz> Travis_: SchoolTool has objectives for enrollement, students info, etc
<mhz> however, e-groupware may be goodfor you
<Travis_> but schools, I think the money should be used on hardware
<mhz> yup
<Travis_> does egroupware intergreat with samba?
<Travis_> err
<Travis_> ldap
<mhz> yup
<mhz> well, so does Evolution :)
* mhz used e-groupware for 2 years
<mhz> very cool
<mhz> all web
<Travis_> by integrate I mean like create ldap users?
<mhz> iirc, yes
<Travis_> iirc?
<Travis_> I'll try it out
<mhz> if i remember correctly :)
<mhz> sorry
<Travis_> what is iirc?
<mhz> if i remember correctly :)
<mhz> Travis_: did you understand it?
<Travis_> oh
<Travis_> lol
<Travis_> I feel dumb now
<Travis_> I'll try school tool first
<mhz> Travis_: SchoolTool is 'default' in Edubuntu
<Travis_> sadly I don't have edubuntu
<mhz> it is not 'mature' but it does have lot of potential
<Travis_> isn't edubuntu a desktop OS?
<Travis_> not server?
<konfuzed> whats school tool
<konfuzed> for
<Travis_> looks like a student information grade booking schedule deal
<Travis_> which is exactly what I am looking for
<mhz> Edubuntu = 100% Ubuntu + special LTSP + edu-apps + some wallpapers
<Travis_> wanna see if it integrates with ldap or anything
<Travis_> honestly I have never liked linux for school desktop OS
<mhz> Travis_: see? I told you :D
<konfuzed> i also just read above a bit which says some about school tools
<Travis_> http://www.schooltool.org
<konfuzed> have you compared moodle ?
<mhz> konfuzed: SchoolTool is a project, aimed to help on  student information grade booking schedule, etc
<Travis_> it needs to add a lunch service
<mhz> konfuzed: Moodle, Claroline and dotLRN are very good LMS
<Travis_> I just wonder if it creates and ldap account or how it manges that stuff
<mhz> Travis_: you can ask in #schooltool
<Travis_> oh
<konfuzed> hmm interesting
<konfuzed> is schooltool using or based on egroupware?
<mhz> konfuzed: sooner or later, SchoolTool will integrate with an LMS
<konfuzed> hm
<mhz> but for now, they have to continue with their roadmap ans see more about Moodle 1.6
<mhz> konfuzed: nope
<konfuzed> I setup moodle as a live performance venue and like it very much so would recommend it to real schools aswell
<mhz> konfuzed: SL is made on Python and Zope
<mhz> and uses ZODB
<mhz> konfuzed: all the 3 LMS I mentioned are very very good. Each has its way into specifics
<konfuzed> then around the same tim edecided to put ubuntu on systems if somebody gets one from me
<mhz> but they all work very well
<konfuzed> then discovered edubuntu and then last month I see moodle is a project on the edubuntu site
<konfuzed> so it all wraps together rather nicely that way
<mhz> yup
<mhz> the idea is we endup with a lot to offer to Education and learning
<mhz> EdubuntuStudyContent is just one of those many ideas
<konfuzed> hm havenet seen that  ESC yet
<mhz> it's a page in the wiki
<mhz> we have done nothing about it
<mhz> yet
<mhz> because I have not had time to write about it and encourage people to join efforts for it
<Travis_> what does moodle do?
<Travis_> never tried it
<mhz> it is a LMS
<Travis_> Learning ________ System?
<Travis_> or something?
<mhz> Managing
<Travis_> oh due
<mhz> Management
<Travis_> duh*
<Travis_> like CMS
<mhz> yup
<mhz> or DMS
<konfuzed> it does room bookings and student registration and paymnet with ecom
<mhz> (i made last one out!)
<mhz> :D
<mhz> among other things
<konfuzed> and has a grading system of some sort I suppose that is govt approved in many places called SCORM
<mhz> well guys, time to hit the envelope (02:27 am)
<mhz> and it has a wiki
<mhz> among other things
<konfuzed> sorry vibrate toll 3:33 over here
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> bye all
<konfuzed> hey travis check out my first moodle site   http://OpenNetRadio.com
<Travis_> k
<Travis_> back so soon?
<mhz> i forgot one thing :)
<Yagisan> mhz: ping
<mhz> Yagisan: wow!
<Yagisan> mhz: yes I'm still up
<Yagisan> mhz: how did the firewall turn out ?
<mhz> Yagisan: eventhoug I give you that the script you suggested is aimed to make life easier, I still prefer to learn what to do by hand, and once I have a decent knowledge, then use the script :0)
<Yagisan> mhz: I like to do things by hand too - but it is a good script. I've sent patches in for it in the past, part of why I suggested it to you.
<Yagisan> mhz: do you run breezy ?
<Yagisan> mhz: if so, I have a little favour to ask you
<mhz> yup
<mhz> shoot
<Yagisan> mhz: are you familiar with my games repo ?
<spacey> good afternoon 
<Yagisan> G'day spacey
<Yagisan> mhz: I take your silence as a no
<mhz> spacey: hi
<mhz> Yagisan: hehe, nope.
<Yagisan> mhz: I need some volunteers to test if I set my dedicated server up correctly
<Yagisan> mhz: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/eyagi/community-projects/yagisan-s-doomsday-for-debian-ubuntu/
* mhz tabbing
<Yagisan> mhz: I'm hoping that some ubuntu using volunteers could perhaps try joining my server
<Yagisan> mhz: and tell me if I screwed it up or not
* mhz reading eyagi's trying to figure out how to help
<Yagisan> mhz: in a nutshell. install game. connect. try to shoot. If you can shoot :) if not :(
<mhz> hehhe
<mhz> ah, very simple
<mhz> so I just install the thing adding repos to my sourcelist
<mhz> and then try to play
<mhz> that's it?
<Yagisan> mhz: basically - yes
<mhz> cool
* mhz has never payed game in the box
<mhz> played
<mhz> just have patience because this is VERY new to me now
* mhz getting a coffe and then install
<Yagisan> mhz: no worries
<Yagisan> mhz: ubuntu has many nice games, this one can't go in yet because of license problems, but that is getting fixed, so maybe dapper + 1
<Yagisan> mhz: but it's my baby
<Yagisan> mhz: my only relaxation that works on a p2 233
<mhz> wow! maybe it will work here too
<mhz> Yagisan: you said that maybe rsync would keep the whole system synced
<mhz> (providing I dont copy /proc)
<Yagisan> mhz: possibly - I still don't remember the name of the two way rsync application :(
<mhz> no problem
<mhz> I have a good book that expalins many usage for rsync
<Yagisan> mhz: http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/
<misiek> hi evryone, i would like to know the difference between ubuntu and edubuntu
<Yagisan> mhz: that was the program I was trying to remember
<Yagisan> misiek: edubuntu is ubuntu + ltsp + education utilities + nicer artwork
<Yagisan> ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: unison is in universe
<misiek> thanks
<Yagisan> misiek: you can change ubuntu to edubuntu by installing the edubuntu-desktop package
<misiek> so basically edubuntu is slightly more then ubuntu but you can make ubuntu into edubuntu right?
<Yagisan> misiek: yes
<Yagisan> misiek: it is ubuntu + extras for education
<Yagisan> misiek: like kubuntu is ubuntu + kde (slightly simplified, but you should get the point)
<misiek> do you know about whether kubuntu is just ubuntu with kde?
<Yagisan> misiek: look up ^^ :)
<misiek> i know its a edubuntu channel, but i figured you would be informed.... 
<Yagisan> misiek: I said it was basically ubuntu + kde
<Yagisan> misiek: uses the kde version of the ubuntu applications
<Yagisan> misiek: you must have looked too far up ;)
<misiek> oh sorry i missed that in the mist of textual information =)
<misiek> yeah
<Yagisan> misiek: myself - I use a mix of apps from ubuntu, kubuntu and edubuntu
<misiek> which apps would you suggest?
<Yagisan> misiek: k3b is a good cd burning app, evolution is nice for email
<Yagisan> misiek: both firefox and konquereor are good www browsers
<misiek> maybe you could help me with a webcam problem - it freezes the system when testing in media selector
<Yagisan> misiek: I can't sorry. two reasons. 1) I don't have a webcam, and 2) it's 3:40am I should be in bed or my wife will divorce me
* Yagisan prepares to go to bed
<Yagisan> night all
<michael__> ye Guyz
<michael__> guys
<michael__> hey
<arkan0x> mhz, !
<lucasvo> juhu, I got the ubuntu.ch domain!!!!
<lucasvo> juliux: ping!
<juliux> lucasvo, pong
<juliux> lucasvo, great
<lucasvo> juliux: now, I would like to make an loco ch
<juliux> lucasvo, hehe
<lucasvo> get the domain ubuntuusers.ch
<lucasvo> juliux: where do you host ubuntuusers.de?
<juliux> lucasvo, on own servers in france
<lucasvo> ok
<juliux> lucasvo, but you can ask smurf to get some webspace, if there is a locoteam ch
<juliux> lucasvo, smurf is the leader of the locoteams
<lucasvo> ok
<mpt> Don't be a eunuch, be an ubuntuch!
<owner> lol mpt
<owner> Linux 2.6.14-archck7 [i686/3.00GHz/SMP] 
<lucasvo> juliux: is there a way, how to send an email to all ubuntuusers.de user which live in CH?
<juliux> lucasvo, hm i dont think that this is possible
<juliux> lucasvo, open a thread
<owner> ive never used edubuntu
<owner> whats it like
<owner> compared to regular ubuntu
<lucasvo> owner: it has installed education apps and supports LTSP
<owner> do any of you use it in schools
<owner> or etc
<lucasvo> not me
<lucasvo> I use it at home
* lucasvo is a student :P
#edubuntu 2006-01-28
<mhz> re
<juliux> morning JaneW 
<juliux> how cold it is by you?
<JaneW> morning
<JaneW> warm
<JaneW> I am in SA, it's mid summer here - admittedly only 25 degs today (usually around 30)
<JaneW> juliux: and you?
<juliux> we have -19 grad celsius
<juliux> very cold
<juliux> and i am live in a city!
<hannes_> where is pxelinux.cfg located in edubuntu?
<juliux> hannes_, if you wait a moment i boot my edubuntu server
<hannes_> sorry, found it
<juliux> ah ok
<hannes_> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg
<hannes_> ubuntuforums.org down?
<juliux> i think so
<bart1105> hi!
<bart1105> hello??
<bart1105> good day...
<bart1105> can anyone help me?
<hannes_> what's the problem?
<bart1105> thanks for the reply..
<bart1105> i just found out about edubuntu last night and i was interested to let my daughter use it...
<bart1105> i'm a noobie
<hannes_> it is pretty similar to ubuntu
<bart1105> i haven't tried ubuntu either.. i tried using mandrake 9 before but that was it...
<hannes_> If you want there's a live-cd available where you don'y have to install it 
<hannes_> but you can just try
<bart1105> where can i get the live cd?? i'm downloading the install disk now
<bart1105> can i dual boot edubuntu?
<hannes_> yes
<hannes_> via GRUB
<hannes_> bart1105: oh, sorry
<hannes_> no live-cd for edubuntu 5.10
<bart1105> um..
<bart1105> what is the difference between the default install and the workstation install?
<hannes_> default install installs ltsp
<hannes_> server
<bart1105> can you tell we what it does? and which install would you recomend since it's going to be a standalone pc for my daughter
<bart1105> what does ltsp do?
<lucasvo> it forwards X to thin clients
<bart1105> oh ok
<bart1105> so for a stand alone pc should i just use the default istall or the workstation?
<bart1105> thanx
<lucasvo> yes
<bart1105> lucasvo: yes??
<lucasvo> 10:59 < bart1105> so for a stand alone pc should i just use the default istall or the workstation?
<lucasvo> yes you should
<bart1105> use the default?
<lucasvo> no
<lucasvo> the workstation
<bart1105> oh ok.. thanx
<bart1105> can't wait till my download finishes
<bart1105> is it hard? i'm a noob
<bart1105> btw, where are you from lucasvo?
<bart1105> thanx... gotto go now... thanks
<Petaris> How mature is sound support for the clients
<Petaris> Hi ogra
<ogra> hi
<Petaris> How stable is sound support for clients
<juliux> hi ogra 
<ogra> should be fine 
<ogra> (in dapper)
<ogra> hey juliux 
<juliux> ogra, i will present edubuntu and ubuntu on the cebit
<ogra> cool
<juliux> the whole 7 days
<juliux> the next thing is i need a short text about edubuntu on english or german
<juliux> have you one?
<ogra> doesnt something from www.edubuntu.org suffice ? 
<juliux> i need something about 200 words
<juliux> for the fairs
<jsgotangco> :)
<paolob> Hi guys! I have a problem with the "no free leases" error that the clients give me at their startup. What should I do? Thank you!
<lucasvo> is it a known bug that evolution displays colors from the calendars wrong in dapper?
<Zarla> Hello All
<Zarla> I have installed the excellent distro edubuntu in my old box for my daughters.
<Zarla> But it's a SMP box. I would like to know if a kernel SMP exists for edubuntu.
<jouni__m> Zarla search linux-image in synaptic
<Zarla> If not, is somebody knows an url to obtain the source packages ?
<Zarla> jouni__m: I tried apt-cache without success. Only one kernel without SMP support exists.
<Burgwork> Zarla, packages.ubuntu.com
<Zarla> Thanks to all for your help. I'm going to try your suggestions.
<Travis_> how do I use a gamepad with edu/ubuntu
<mhz> hmm, never tried Travis_ but if it is USB, wouldn't it be a matter of just plug it in?
<Travis_> it plugs into the gameport
<Burgwork> Travis_, try jsconfigurator, out of universe
<Travis_> k
<Travis_> do I need gui?
<Burgwork> yes
<Travis_> but I don't have X
<Burgwork> hmm, thne you might have to manually hack X
<Burgwork> xorg.conf
<Travis_> I'd have to install it though right
<Travis_> its a server
<jouni__m> Travis_ why not install some light window manager to your server blackbox xfce etc?
<Travis_> dunno
#edubuntu 2006-01-29
<hanowars> Ya estoy.
<hanowars> Solo me dijo eso, que no existe el fichero o directorio
<Burgwork> hanowars, #edubuntu-es
<hanowars> Upps
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
<dan_> can anyone recommend an app to help a four-year-old play around with music?
<mhz_cooking> dan_: play with music?
<dan_> yes, games that covertly teach music fundamentals
<dan_> something she could use to (eventually) make her own  toons.
<dan_> *tunes
<mhz_cooking> dan_: hmmmmm
<mhz_cooking> I know there is something to create 'partituras' (those sheets to read music)
<dan_> does gcompris have some music stuff?
<mhz_cooking> Also, I know there's an application to learn piano basics
<mhz_cooking> dan_: Gcompris and Childsplay are great for young kids
<mhz_cooking> but
<mhz_cooking> as for music stuff....
<mhz_cooking> they have many applications including sound and effects
<mhz_cooking> but nothing to 'learn music'
<mhz_cooking> dan_: have you tried Synaptics Package Manager?
<dan_> I typed music and got a lot of audio players
<mhz_cooking> you could search packages by 'category' or 'description'
<dan_> "music children" returned nothing
* mhz_cooking will try
<mhz_cooking> dan_: is your source.list open to universe or still default after installation?
<dan_> I added universe, multiverse, etc.
<mhz_cooking> okis
* mhz_cooking needed to ask :)
<mhz> dan_: ping
<mhz> dan_: sudo apt-cache show education-music
<dan_> ok
<mhz> Brahms is a multi-track graphical music editor. It allows score and
<mhz>  piano-roll notation, multi-part tracks and drum-tracks.
<mhz> dan_: GNU Solfege is an ear training program for X Window written in python,
<mhz> using the GTK+ 2.0 and GNOME2 libraries. You can practice harmonic and
<mhz>  melodic intervals, chords, scales and rhythms, and you can add new
<mhz>  exercises using a simple plain text file format.
* dan_ is installing now
<mhz> dan_: at least basde on description.. is this near what you looked for?
<dan_> I'll check those out, and the others in the list.  Thanks for your help.  I hadn't tried childsplay and it looks great.  Thanks for that, too.   I'll have my daughter on the fast track to Julliard / Stanford / MIT.  :) 
<mhz> based
<mhz> dan_: I am very glad to help
<mhz> my daughter is also 4
<mhz> and my wife a musician and environment engenner
<dan_> cool.
<dan_> Is your daughter getting good with computers?
<mhz> so she'll be happy to know I found something that may help
<mhz> dan_: not yet, but she loved Edubuntu Gcompris and Childsplay
<mhz> at least she can turn it on
<mhz> and of
<mhz> f
<dan_> Emma loved Gcompris.  When I got a Mac and told her that it didn't have gcompris she actually cried.
<mhz> and also manage her own Gcompris environment
<mhz> dan_: lol
<mhz> dan_: lol but i am sorry
<mhz> :)
<mhz> dan_: but you can try Edubuntu on Macs
<dan_> I made here this page:  http://www.personman.com/emma and she can click through and play flash games
<dan_> ??
* mhz learnt Linux with an Apple
<mhz> G3 Powerbook, 350 Mhz and 256 MB ram
<dan_> dunno, I like my OS X.
<mhz> heheheh
<mhz> but you can run it in 2 diff ways:
<dan_> setting this Edubuntu box up has been a pleasure, though.
<dan_> dual boot?
<dan_> I might try that sometime.
<mhz> a) Install Linux and use MacOnLinux which will run OSX in a Window
<mhz> b) partition your HD for each OS
<dan_> I've never had Linux on a really fast computer, that would be interesting.
<dan_> I'm going to get back to it, thanks again for your help.
<mhz> dan_: your wellcome and thx for Emma's page :)
<mhz> Can Amaya (my daughter) use it too?
<dan_> of course.
<dan_> feel free to use that page, or copy the source and change the name for Amaya if you want.
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> sure
<mhz> thx
<sq377> Has anyone tested using the novell client and edubuntu?
<sq377> If i can get a computer working well, with linux under their existing setup with novell, they will switch all but the graphics arts class in my high school to edubuntu.
<sq377> or is edubuntu aimed for younger childeren (the impression i'm getting from the screenshots)
<mhz> sq377: not aimed necesarily to kids
<mhz> dapper will cover older learners too
<sq377> ok
<sq377> is the edubuntu release of dapper going to be with the april release? or some time after?
<mhz> yup
<mhz> Abril
<mhz> the 20th, I guess
<yennyKa> Hooola a todos!!!
<mhz> yennyKa: hi there
<yennyKa> hi mhz :)
<mhz> yennyKa: what does GLUC stand for?
<mhz> and where are you from?
* ulinskie is away: visit wahoy.com, zamboanga's free online classified ads
<yennyKa> mhz: You know of some document in which it is spoken clearly of the characteristics of Edubuntu (engineering specifications, applications, objectives) among others?
<yennyKa> mhz I'm from Popayn (Colombia)
<mhz> yennyKa: puedes unirte al #edubuntu-es
<mhz> alli esta lguerra, colombiano de Pereira
<mhz> y yo tambien :D
* mhz is Chilean though
<yennyKa> gracias mhz ...
<mhz> yw
<mhz> mhz phone Yagisan 
<mhz> :)
<mhz> Yagisan: I am on my way out but I would like to talk to you. I guess you will go to bed soon. When would you get back to IRC?
<juliux> ogra, ping
<ogra> juliux, pong
<juliux> ogra, do you know if there is any ubuntu dev or motu in the near of hannover ?
<ogra> nope, there is none
<juliux> thxs
<juliux> because we can do talks at the cebit
<juliux> but i have no time to do that
<lucasvo> xubuntu doesn't seem to use standard xinit scripts
<lucasvo> I installed the xubuntu package on a breezy box with Edubuntu + ltsp, but xfce only worked on the server not on the clients
<lucasvo> what's wrong?
<jair> hello guys, correct me if I am wrong, but most of the games and activities on the edubuntu distro are available to Debian Sarge 3.1?
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> ogra: do you know whats wrong?
<ogra> lucasvo, did you try sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
<ogra> to select xfce as default session ? 
<jair> ogra, may I have a hint of where could I find the list of those games? the thing is that I have couple of computers with Linux Debian stable 3.1 that are already running. And all i would like to do is have all those applications available for the kids at the organization where I work.
<lucasvo> yes I think so
<lucasvo> jair: a edubuntu installation would be much faster :P
<lucasvo> jair: but just try the edubuntu livecd
<lucasvo> there you see which apps are installed
<ogra> jair, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<jair> thank you ogra 
<ogra> jair, thats the complete desktop list, there is a subsection for the edubuntu addons
<jair> ogra, nice, I will be installing eventually the schoolbeel or calendar for small organizations, like we are a non-profit one. :)
<ogra> cool
<jair> but I will explore how to installed individually I like edubuntu a lot but I will be using it in a LTSP soon :)
<ogra> ltsp is our core technic, most development is happening in this area for the next release :)
<juliux> hi mhz 
<juliux> mhz, do you have a short text about edubuntu?
<mhz> juliux: ?
<mhz> hi
<mhz> what you have in mind?
<mhz> what exactly do you need?
<juliux> mhz, a short text what is special for edubuntu
<mhz> and I guess you need it in english?
<juliux> mhz, for a fair catalog
<juliux> mhz, right
<mhz> hmmm
<mhz> I only have it spanish
<juliux> mhz, how long?
<mhz> hmmm,,,,
<juliux> mhz, i need something about 200 words
<mhz> 2 to 4 paragraphs
<mhz> (about 150 words)
<juliux> yes thats ok
<mhz> juliux: but I wont be able to trasnlate it into englih until thursday (maybe)
<juliux> mhz, it has time
* mhz feels better now
<juliux> mhz, i need it until 31.1 is that ok for you?
<mhz> yup
<juliux> thanks mhz 
<mhz> count on that
<mhz> w
<mhz> yw
<mhz> but please remind me to it on thurdsay
<juliux> mhz, ok
<signifer123> Hello
<juliux> hi signifer123 
<signifer123> hey man...
<signifer123> UTC is GMT -?
<juliux> signifer123, puh
<juliux> signifer123, check date -utc
<ogra> rather date -u :)
<signifer123> k
<signifer123> thx
<signifer123> ehen the next meeting?
<ogra> edubuntu meeting is at 12:00 UTC every wednesday
<ogra> unless the topic in this channel tells something different
<signifer123> ok
<signifer123> you guys hold logs?
<lucasvo> signifer123: yes
<lucasvo> fabbione does
<lucasvo> ns1.dynamic-net.ch      [62.67.58.76] 
<lucasvo> ns2.dynamic-net.ch      [81.3.18.135] 
<lucasvo> ups
<lucasvo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/
<lucasvo> see #ubuntu-meeting topic
<signifer123> k thanks
<lucasvo> the  "middlemouse button" and the normal copy/paste buffer is strange
<lucasvo> one should put them together
<signifer123> sorry if you guys jsut didn't feel about answering before i just guess you wern't paying attemtion, but how do you feel about the use of RealBasic to make applications for edubuntu?
<lucasvo> signifer123: atm the edubuntu team isn't making any apps
<lucasvo> they just put them together
<ogra_> realbasic is nothing we could ship, there is no free implementation 
<lucasvo> I would prefer python
<ogra_> we couldnt ship the interpreter, so we cant build packages ...
<signifer123> welli ment for me to make apps with?
<signifer123> because currently i jsut use it for windows
<lucasvo> signifer123: I would suggest you use python because it is 100% GPL
<lucasvo> ogra_: put your cigarette out of your mouth 
<ogra_> if you get an interpreter for linux and are able to install it, why not ...
<lucasvo> ;-)
<signifer123> well the thing is it doesn't need an interpretter..iwas jsut wondering if this was founed upon like vb is in the windows world
<signifer123> sincei  feel it runs faster :-p
<ogra_> if you want to produce something we can put into the distro and deliver to people, then lucasvo is right , python, C or C++ are preferred
<signifer123> ok.
<signifer123> that include glade?
<lucasvo> yes
* ogra_ personally never met someone using realbasic yet ...
<signifer123> glade is accepted or not?
<ogra_> yup, it is
<signifer123> ok.
<lucasvo> glade is used in a lot of ubuntu apps
<ogra_> half of the desktop :)
<signifer123> ohh wow...
<signifer123> didn't expect that...
<signifer123> how about java?
<signifer123> that acceptable like c++/c/python?
<ogra_> if your app runs with the free gcj compiler, then its fine
<signifer123> ok
<ogra_> i.e. eclipse is something we can support, it runs with gcj, freemind doesnt ...
<ogra_> ... so freemind isnt packaged
<signifer123> ok
<signifer123> so pretty much if it runs nativly then you support it, or no?
<signifer123> lol
<ogra> nope, if the libs, interpreters or compilers are available, we ship it
<signifer123> o ok
<signifer123> kinda...
<signifer123> the compiler has to be free too?
<ogra> the problem is that our build system only accepts source uploads, so the packages must be compilable with the pieces we have on board
<ogra> not strictly
<ogra> we have some java apps that we ship in multiverse for example ...
<ogra> but they will always have to stay in multiverse ... 
<signifer123> ok becuase i'm jsut shooting at making an app in realbasic...it runs as long as the host computer has glibc-2.3, is that ok?
<signifer123> so that owudl be a multiverse?
<signifer123> would*
<ogra> nope
<ogra> as i said above, we cant do binary uploads
<signifer123> yeah...:-p
<signifer123> need to remember that...
<ogra> if we upload the source, we have no realbasic interpreter
<ogra> so the package cant be built
<signifer123> ok
<signifer123> well thanks for clearing that up even though i'm quite dense
<ogra> nah, you arent :)
<signifer123> ohh aone more thing
<signifer123> one*
<signifer123> sorry...
<signifer123> i remember a edubuntu video thing where a guy was making video showing how to do stuff in edubuntu
<signifer123> how do i get in on that?
<signifer123> or is that individual
<ogra> you mean you want to make a video ? 
<ogra> i'm not aware of such a project...
<signifer123> it wasn't a project
<signifer123> i beleive it was on the mailing list
<signifer123> or in the forum
<ogra> but you can install istanbul and take desktop videos 
<ogra> its pretty easy
<signifer123> ok
<signifer123> thanks
<signifer123> i'll probably be back to bug you later :-p
<ogra> just go on, thats what this channel is for ;)
<jair> ogra, Thank you very much for all the help, I will be probably helping with the translation to Spanish in the schooltool project :)
<ogra> cool :)
<signifer123> does edubuntu have nything like algebrator?
<signifer123> none?
<signifer123> lol
<signifer123> anyone here play with glade?
#edubuntu 2007-01-22
<ball> hello ubotu, Ubugtu
<LaserJock> hi ball
<ball> hello LaserJock
<ball> hello n2diy
<ball> hello Amaranth
<Amaranth> hi
<LaserJock> morning ogra
<highvoltage> morning ogra
<highvoltage> LaserJock: :p
<Burgundavia> hey ogra, LaserJock, highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey Burgundavia and LaserJock
<ogra> hi
<ajmitch> hi ogra, LaserJock, highvoltage, Burgundavia
<highvoltage> hi ajmitch :)
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<willvdl> g'day Bruce
<Burgundavia> hey willvdl
<willvdl> hey. good to see your name in the channels again
<Burgundavia> new gf keeping me busy
<highvoltage> hey willvdl
<willvdl> highvoltage, morning. Did any HPX guys contact you folks last week?
<willvdl> Burgundavia, yeah, know that one. The travel is killing me :)
<highvoltage> morning willvdl
<highvoltage> willvdl: nope, I don't even know who HPX is
<willvdl> highvoltage, your away message is on :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> willvdl: technically, I am away ;)
<willvdl> where are you?
<highvoltage> at work
<willvdl> Ah, I can see I'll have to choose my questions more carefully
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: IRC
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: excuse me?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: IRC is evil
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: okay
<highvoltage> willvdl: I try not to spend too much time on IRC at work, so I mark myself as away: at work, when at work
<willvdl> you read Catch-22 yet? "Major Major is out so you may go in", "But when will he be back in", " as soon as you are out"
<Burgundavia> I am trying an experiment: not use IRC at work
<Burgundavia> I have found am just as productive either way, so expect to see me on IRC again next week at work
<highvoltage> I've found a sharp increase in productivity when I am not in certain channels.
<highvoltage> my local LUG channel is the biggest culprit.
<zelk> greetings anyone around?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> :)
<zelk> ah hello
<Burgundavia> what can we help you with?
<zelk> i was wondering about edubuntu
<Burgundavia> we might just be able to answer questions about that here
<zelk> can the os be installed and boot from a flash drive
<Burgundavia> yes, although it takes a bit of work
<zelk> dont mind the extra work part
<zelk> any link to the tutorial?
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<Burgundavia> although I cannot guarantee that is going to work
<zelk> currently planning to install edubuntu for a kindergarden but payment is horrible and they are fussy T_T
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> you going to install a thin client server or just a workstation
<Burgundavia> because you are doing the former, I would be really worries about RAM usage
<zelk> we provided old pc's with win98 but...they some how manage to kill something every month
<zelk> looking at thin client cheaper
<Burgundavia> ok, for that you want a dedicated server
<Burgundavia> how many thin clients?
<zelk> 4-5 maybe less
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: what is the latest recommendation for RAM per thin client?
<zelk> if i remember reading correctly recomended 256 per extra client
<Burgundavia> yep, that is about right
<zelk> wahaha it is abit of work
<Burgundavia> seriously, usb stuff like that is really only for moving from computer to computer
<Burgundavia> why exactly do you need to have it on a usb stick?
<zelk> btw the new edubuntu flash drive can be reused as a normal flash drive again or is it permenant
<Burgundavia> it could be reformatted again
<zelk> usb stick cheaper then a 80gb hdd
<Burgundavia> yes, but far less reliable and much slower
<Burgundavia> hey cbx33
<zelk> plus they have "magic" fingers i have no idea how they manage to kill a piece of hardware every month
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> in which case you can put the server out of reach
<cbx33> hey Burgundavia
<zelk> one..sugestion is that their roof leaks and water drips on to the pc...
<zelk> a few monitors had a wet death T_T
<zelk> as long as minimum hardware is needed all is good.
<zelk> they refuse to pay for damages, and have at least 6 months of unpaid pc rentals
<Burgundavia> ouch
<zelk> very
<ogra> its only 128MB per client and a base of 256M for the server itself
<zelk> plus the kinder is about 20miles from shop =Z
<cbx33> ogra TCM is moving forward
<ogra> cbx33, great
<cbx33> almost completed multiple server part of spec
<cbx33> will need some help from you though
<Burgundavia> cbx33: you rock
<cbx33> tiled VNC is working
<cbx33> am thinking about writing my own small vnc server for feisty + 1
<ogra> can we do that next week ? i'm a bit busy with the sprint this week
<cbx33> of course
<Burgundavia> cbx33: why not fix up vino?
<zelk> ok thanks burgun
<cbx33> i may do
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> Burgundavia, hwo do you embed vino in another app so that you have tiled overview of the classroom ?
<Burgundavia> zelk: no worries. seriously though, flash drives are not the way to go
<zelk> i need to go out to deliver some keyboards now
<Burgundavia> ogra: hmm, no idea
<cbx33> well ,my plane was to write a very very small server
<Burgundavia> however, I mention it because it exists and why write it all again
<ogra> Burgundavia, raping vino for something its not supposed to do doesnt sound right
<cbx33> that take a screen shot every 3 seconds or so, and is not interactive
<zelk> sorry for joining and running like this
<cbx33> maybe by piping xwd or something....
<cbx33> unfortunately python can't get screenshots nicely
<Burgundavia> why isn't vnc built directly into X?
<cbx33> so I may have to write it in C
<cbx33> x11vnx
<cbx33> x11vnc works fine
<cbx33> but...the bandwidth is high
<cbx33> if I write a new server for it, we could view 20 tiled screens allat once
<ogra> Burgundavia, dunno, why didnt you patch X ?
<cbx33> then switch to vnc for the teacher to control
<cbx33> Burgundavia: are you working on the latest edition of the official ubuntu book?
<Burgundavia> sort of
<Burgundavia> ogra: I will get right on that :)
<cbx33> Burgundavia: can I ask some advice?
<Burgundavia> shoot
<ogra> great, ping me tomorrow if you're done
<Burgundavia> sweet
<cbx33> Edubuntu has a lot of features that aren't confimred for feisty just yet
<cbx33> but the latest book release is supposed to be based on feisty
<cbx33> initial draft is meant to be in by 8th Feb
<Burgundavia> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-January/021119.html <-- this was the thread that starting my thinking, ogra
<Burgundavia> I am merely going to be technical editor this time
<ogra> thats not true for ubuntu
<ogra> the vnc shipped in main gets always compiled against the X libs we ship
<Burgundavia> yep
<cbx33> Burgundavia: ok, but what do you suggest?
<Burgundavia> for the edubuntu chapter?
<cbx33> how should I handle it...
<cbx33> I've started
<cbx33> and written a big big chuck already
<Burgundavia> ah
<Burgundavia> well, you pick ogra's brain here
<cbx33> we also have the problem that ltsp for example has changed significantly from dapper
<cbx33> ok
<Burgundavia> given he is the primary driver of new things
<cbx33> ogra is there any chance I can grab you on this?
<cbx33> did you get my mail?
<Burgundavia> you say "ogra: how much crack are you going to get done for Feisty?"
<cbx33> I have TCM and this chapter to do...trouble is they are kinda interrelated
<cbx33> ;)
<Burgundavia> and then you say "me: how much crack am I going to get done for Feisty", as you appear to be driving that development
<ajmitch> jsgotangco!
<cbx33> ogra I'll try to have as much of TCM done for early next week, then we can check it though and get it ready after FF
<Burgundavia> cbx33: is SCP now TCM?
<jsgotangco> heh they want the laptops away
<jsgotangco> brb
<cbx33> Burgundavia: yes
<cbx33> Thin Client Manager
<Burgundavia> ah, cool
<cbx33> and it's looking sweet
<Burgundavia> got any screenshots?
<cbx33> oh ogra I got a reply from the guys at RedHat, they said great we're using their code, and that it came from pyvnc2swf mostly anyway...
<Burgundavia> you need to blog about the cool things, to make people drool
<cbx33> Burgundavia: yeh, lemme fire it up and get it running some vnc sessions
<Burgundavia> funnily enough, I am busy debating how to convince my boss that the new offices needs shiny new LTSP-running thin clients, instead of our own custom multiseat stuff
<cbx33> heheh
<Burgundavia> primarily I want less management headaches
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: depending on how many clients there are, userful might actually be a good solution?
<Burgundavia> multiseat requires close distances
<highvoltage> that's what I was thinking
<Burgundavia> basically unsuitable for single offices
<Burgundavia> we only get away with it because we currently have cubicles in larger rooms
<highvoltage> if it's up to about 6-8 workstations very close to each other, then it's not so bad
<Burgundavia> plus multiseast is crashy as hell (although not as crashy as the in-X stuff) and breaks a lot of things, like sound and openGL
<highvoltage> but anything more than that and I'd rather be using diskless machines
<highvoltage> really? wow.
<highvoltage> on the HP 441-style machines GL and sound works fine.
<Burgundavia> that is dedicated hardware with dedicated software
<Burgundavia> we have multiseat sound working, sort of
<Burgundavia> our device assignment code is utter junk
<highvoltage> they should make userful free software ;)
<Burgundavia> desktop multiplier is the actual product name and yes
<highvoltage> ah yes
<cbx33> Burgundavia: just getting the screenshot now ;)
<cbx33> had to fix a bug first
<cbx33> but then I hadn't tested my integration code in 2 days
<cbx33> ;)
<Burgundavia> been playing a bit with http://ebox-platform.com/
<cbx33> Burgundavia: see my blog ;)
<cbx33> there is now a screenshot
<cbx33> man this irc is laggy
<Burgundavia> cool
<Burgundavia> you are splitting out the backend from the front end, no?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> already done
<cbx33> and the backend program to integrate over ssh for multiple server control is also....largely done
<cbx33> all in about a week
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I've been busy
<cbx33> SCP -> TCM has grown in code by about double, possibly tripple in this release
<Amaranth> cbx33: you know pixbuf's can be resized, right?
<Amaranth> (reading blog)
<cbx33> Amaranth: no i didn't :p
<cbx33> i did look
<Amaranth> gtk.gdk.Pixbuf.scale_simple
<cbx33> is it quick?
<cbx33> ahhh cool
<cbx33> I'll give that a go
<cbx33> gimme two ticks
<cbx33> Amaranth: you gem
<cbx33> that's loads quicker...I looked for that too
<cbx33> crap now I look like an idiot
<Amaranth> :)
<cbx33> just need someone in the know I guess
<cbx33> man CPU bandwidth is minimal
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> CRIKEY
<Amaranth> ?
<cbx33> I can run the screenshots on Hyper now
<Amaranth> heh
<cbx33> they are SOOOO Smooth
<cbx33> Amaranth: I'm blogging about you right now
<Amaranth> PIL is pure python, isn't it?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> but in futre to do image resizing, it maybe quick to convert to pixbuf and do it that way
<Amaranth> yeah, python's not good at those kinds of things :)
<cbx33> you may have just solved a problem I had
<cbx33> phimage ;)
<cbx33> resizing on that was DOG slow
<cbx33> now it may be able to run real time
<Amaranth> the real problem with all this should be network bandwidth
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> which is why I'm thinking of wirint a very simple vnc type server for feisty + 1
<Amaranth> if you hit a bottleneck anywhere other than the network you're doing something wrong :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> indeed
<ajmitch> cbx33: impressive work from your blog
<cbx33> thanks ajmitch, Amaranth just made it a whole lot better
<cbx33> I think I'm going to edit the blog entry....or add a new one ;)
<cbx33> Burgundavia: you were right...heheh...Ishould have blogged about it ;)
<Amaranth> you do all the work, i jump in with the quick fix ;)
<cbx33> it is an awesome fix
<cbx33> please await...new blog entry pending....
* highvoltage holds breath
<ajmitch> how I wish I could have my dual-monitor setup at work
<ajmitch> (and use python there)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> how I wish I had a new job
<cbx33> and didn't have to administer windows boxen
<ajmitch> heh
* ajmitch has to write php, and admin a couple of linux servers
<cbx33> yuk....I used to love php
<cbx33> then I started using python
<cbx33> this job is sapping me
<cbx33> I need to do dev work
<cbx33> I love dek work
<cbx33> *dev
<rodarvus> hi there
<ajmitch> hi rodarvus
<cbx33> hey rodarvus
<ajmitch> oh good, each module can draw its own UI in the container given now, this should make things easier for me
* ajmitch needs to get this hacked up in the next day or two
<cbx33> sounds complicated ajmitch
<ajmitch> not particularly
<ajmitch> the wonders of python & gtk+
<ajmitch> I'm not using glade, so in a way it's easier
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> well....I'm just having a quick look at phimage
<cbx33> the pixbuf resize is a damn sight quicker but it can't reliable produce a format that openGL can use
<ajmitch> you need opengl?
<cbx33> not for TCM
<ajmitch> ok
<cbx33> for another project I'm working on
<cbx33> on the side
<cbx33> ;)
<ajmitch> I was going to say, you could just do the resize in opengl
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> again quite possibly
* cbx33 is still new at all this graphics stuff
* ajmitch also :)
<cbx33> how can you resize in opengl?
<cbx33> my problem is textures have to be n^2xm^2
<cbx33> if you get my drift
<cbx33> I was resizing with PIL
<cbx33> but that's DOG SLOW
<cbx33> so when Amaranth showed me howmuch quicker a pixbuf.scale_simple was
<cbx33> i wondered if I could use a pixbuf to store the image....
<cbx33> trouble is using the get_pixels method doesn't give the right format for use with openGL textureing
<cbx33> it needs to be RGBX
<cbx33> some images load....but display funny
<cbx33> one image loads ok but is flipped
<cbx33> and about 80 others just kill opengl
<ajmitch> odd
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but I just don't have time to fix it... :( was trying to get it in for feisty
<ajmitch> best to get things working now
<cbx33> well i would if I could
<cbx33> ok, it can use bmps
<cbx33> so it must be a format thing
<cbx33> hmmm getting closer
<cbx33> but still doesn't like jpg of png
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ajmitch: partial success
<cbx33> the images are still screwed up, but at least it's reading in all the images now
<cbx33> they're just in the wrong format
<ajmitch> great
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> nevermind
<cbx33> back to real work
<cbx33> :(
* ajmitch should get to bed so he can do real work in the morning
<cbx33> i think I'll be getting upat 5:30 in the morning again tomorrow
<ajmitch> ouch
<cbx33> so I can get TCM finished
<ajmitch> why the rush?
<cbx33> going to bed at about 12 -1
<cbx33> well it's gotta be largely done by Feb 8th
<cbx33> FF date
<ajmitch> it still has a long way to go?
<cbx33> well...
<cbx33> tbph I'm not sure what state it needs to be in for FF
<ajmitch> mostly there
<cbx33> the vnc works
<cbx33> needs a little tweaking
<ajmitch> it should be feature complete & not too buggy
<cbx33> um...backend system works...
<cbx33> exactly
* ajmitch has a bit of work to do, but not that much
<cbx33> I'm scared I'm not gonna get it into that state
<cbx33> as I'm also writing the Edubuntu chapter for the official ubuntu book
<cbx33> and that has a deadline of Feb 8th too :p
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> good luck :)
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> it's gonna be tough
<cbx33> really tough
<Amaranth> ack, that's the 8th?
<Amaranth> i thought it was the 20th
<cbx33> yeh me too
<cbx33> well I hoped at least
<cbx33> ogra thought it was later too ;)
<ajmitch> sleep time, I can worry about code in the morning :)
<cbx33> nn ajmitch
<highvoltage> goodnight ajmitch
<cbx33> ping ogra_
<Ram_> hi all... does anyone of a website that lists edubuntu-based projects geared to primary education?
<willvdl> highvoltage, can you check what my username is for edubuntu.org drupal site? :P
<highvoltage> willvdl: ok
<willvdl> ah, got it somehow
<willvdl> weird.
<ogra_> YAY
<ogra_> volume control on thin clients works !
<willvdl> ogra_, +++
<highvoltage> willvdl: ok :) I just got it
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: ogra++
<ogra_> now to the input devices ....
<willvdl> highvoltage, had a long chat with pips1 on Friday
<willvdl> about what info should be in Drupal site and what in wiki
<willvdl> he reckons, apart from the front page, that we should put as much as possible in the wiki
<willvdl> what you think?
<highvoltage> wiki is good
<highvoltage> it means that more people can edit it
<highvoltage> I read most of the conversation from friday, but only afterwards
<willvdl> ah. did I leave it in the channel?
<willvdl> cool, anyway, Matt Nuzum want sto move ubuntu.com over to drupal somewhere mid-march I think
<willvdl> so I jsut want to check with him what kinds of info he wants in ubuntu.com and then we should look close at copying him I guess
<kihai> Hi y'all! Anyone has an idea on how I can get the current cpu time of certain running processes? I want to write a cron script that will check regularly for the cpu time of the Xorg process on my Ltsp clients, and when it's >=95% I want to kill the process. But how can I read out the cpu time of processes with ps????
<highvoltage> HAHA!
<willvdl> instead of killing it, have you considered changing its priority?
<willvdl> maybe renicing it?
<highvoltage> willvdl: there were lots of objection against drupal for edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'm quite surprised to see that it will be used for ubuntu.com
<cbx33> ping ogra_
<willvdl> highvoltage, yeah. I image it is really just for keeping the static pages (front page), news tickers, download mirrors page (which is dynamic) and release notes or something
<willvdl> I read all of Phillips planning pages for drupal
<willvdl> silly question, but does the edubuntu council have an LP presence?
<kihai> willvdl: Hmm, I'll give it a try, havent tested it so far...
<willvdl> kihai, processes can be cpu intensive. As long as they are not hogging the cpu from other key processes I wouldn't really worry about it
<willvdl> well, meaning I wouldn't kill it.
<kihai> Maybe someone knows what could cause this prob. It's a Edgy Eft Server and when clients log off, sometimes the Xorg process hangs. Any ideas on what settings I could change to fix this?
<kihai> willvdl: The problem is, that if the Xorg process is over 95%, the client hangs.
<kihai> Ah, and Xorg restarts itself automatically when it's killed, so no worries there
<willvdl> how have you verified this?
<willvdl> it might be a combination of cpu usage, memory and network load. I doubt it is as simple as just a hungry process
<kihai> When the client logs out, the screen goes grey, mouse and keyboard aren't reacting anymore and when I log on the hanging client with ssh then top shows me the Xorg process with >=95%. If I kill it, it restarts itself and the client is showing a new login screen.
<highvoltage> willvdl: the edubuntu council is the administrators on the edubuntu-members page
<willvdl> ah. good point
<willvdl> ws looking at http://www.edubuntu.org/news/3. might need to adjust or simply move discussion page to wiki
<cbx33> highvoltage: did we do a fridge story on edubuntu and BETT?
<willvdl> highvoltage, is it as sweltering hot there as it is here? My potplants just caught alight...
<juliux> hi all
<willvdl> hey
<juliux> !seen Riched
<ubotu> I haven't seen riched recently
<juliux> hm
<willvdl> juliux, he's recovering from travels
<willvdl> will be back tomorrow
<juliux> willvdl, so he will be online in the next days?
<willvdl> yes. just feeling under the weather
<willvdl> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> I haven't seen riched recently
<juliux> willvdl, thxs
<willvdl> hmmm, does ubotu care about case?
<juliux> we will have a local edubuntu weekend in februar
<juliux> and riched means that perhaps he will be in europe in feb
<highvoltage> cbx33: no, thanks for the reminder, it went under the radar somehow, we should still put it up
<highvoltage> willvdl: I've been in the office all day so I don't know what the temperature is outside
<willvdl> don't go. wait till dark then walk slowly
<juliux> highvoltage, ask wetter.com;)
<highvoltage> willvdl: ok :)
<highvoltage> juliux: according to my gnome weather applet it's just 27C outside
<highvoltage> it was 33C on Saturday
<willvdl> berg wind.
<juliux> highvoltage, here we have 5C and a strong wind
<willvdl> anbient temp is low but wind factor....eish
<highvoltage> I'm not complaining though. our winter was way too cold and long.
<highvoltage> juliux: ouch. when I say 'way too cold' I mean the coldest it got was about 7C
<juliux> highvoltage, the coldest in januar was -7C in the morning
<highvoltage> shew
<juliux> highvoltage, last winter the coldest was -21C
<juliux> highvoltage, -21C in the morning and -18 during the day
<highvoltage> I've never felt - degrees before
<juliux> come to germany;)
<juliux> but not this winter
<willvdl> ogra_, where do you want release announcements to live? wiki and then ported into docbook?
<ogra_> why docbook ?
* ogra_ still doesnt understand why they have to be anywhere else
<juliux> hey ogra_
<juliux> ogra_, if you are back in germany i have something to play for you;9
<ogra_> nice !
<juliux> ogra_, we get two thinclients from transtec an a minicomputer for the expos
<ogra_> willvdl, i think wiki suffices ... but if you like them in docbook, feel free
<ogra_> juliux, cool
<juliux> ogra_, but if we don't need them on expos we can use them for testing,
<ogra_> good
<cbx33> ogra_: I'm practically done on TCM
<juliux> ogra_, so i think i will send you one transtec thinclient after cebit if you want
<cbx33> just the filtering to do
<juliux> ogra_, http://www.transtec.de/D/D/products/ServerBasedComputing/transtecMYLO500.htm
<cbx33> and I got a bit confused over one thing so I'll be emailing you
<cbx33> I expect to have....dare I say it....everything on the spec list, bar the applet for assistance done
<ogra_> cbx33, can you move the "kill process" button into the processes tab ?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> gui updates are easy
<ogra_> and a placeholder pic for the tiles would also be nice
<cbx33> there is a bug or two in the vnc code
<ogra_> apart from that .... -> AWESOME !!!!
<cbx33> ogra_: of course
<cbx33> dude it works
<ogra_> !!!
<cbx33> and smoothly ;)
<ogra_> cool
<cbx33> I'm a little confused about the multiple backend
<cbx33> but
<cbx33> best thing is for me to send you a link to what I've done
<ogra_> now lets wait for the feedback from the 50 client setups :P
<cbx33> so you can see it
<cbx33> when you get back from sprint
<cbx33> is that fair?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> i saw the screenshot already
<ogra_> yeah, indeed
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra_> i'll get to it sunday evening ...
<cbx33> just need you to take a look at some of the ssh workings
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> that should then give me enogh time to write the book chapter about it ;)
<cbx33> I know pretty much what's gonna be in now
<willvdl> ogra_, docbook really just for archive purposes, ubiquity etc. but I agree with you. Anyway, main reason is that I'm updating wiki to have release announcements in central place
<cbx33> it's just sorting and tarting till the 8th
<ogra_> willvdl, proceed as you like .... i totally trust your judgement
<willvdl> ogra_, do we still do release notes as well as release announcement?
<ogra_> i think yes ... as long as we have enough to say in them ....
<ogra_> if all new features easily fit into the announcement we probably dont need them
<willvdl> gotcha
<bddebian> Heya
<willvdl> OK, moved our old Breezy Release notes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyBadger
<cbx33> Amaranth: thanks again
<cbx33> i kinda got it working on phimage too
<cbx33> but there are some pixel format issues to deal with
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> saw the blog :)
<Amaranth> you're welcome
<cbx33> howz willow coming along
* Amaranth hides
<cbx33> IF i get everything else done and you need a hand...jsut shout
<paolob> Hi guys! The hd of my edubuntu server failed, thanks God I had a backup made with backuppc. I restored all (I think so, but I could have forgot something) the hd, but the clients doesn't boot, or, better, they arrive to a " authenticated mount request from 10.0.1.217:906 for /opt/ltsp/i386 ". Any hint? what should I do?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 TCM is looking very nice, judging by the screenshots
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<g333k_work> hi does edubuntu 6.06 comes with ltsp 4.2?
<Burgwork> g333k_work: 6.06 comes with a new version of LTSP, which is now ltsp 5
<Burgwork> thus, no
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! I had a hd failure, and I had to restore the hd to a new one from a backuppc backup. I restored all (I think...), but the client can't boot well, they only arrive at asking an IP. Any idea what do I lack or miss? thank you!
#edubuntu 2007-01-23
<hugo> how to activate sound and localdevs in ltsp?
<paolob-parroquia>  Hi guys! I had a hd failure, and I had to restore the hd to a new one from a backuppc backup. I restored all (I think...), but the clients can't boot well, they only arrive at asking an IP. Any idea what do I lack or miss? thank you!
<LaserJock> hugo: what version of Edubuntu?
<hugo> edgy
<LaserJock> paolob-parroquia: maybe try #ltsp, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> hugo: and it doesn't work?
<LaserJock> I'm assuming :-)
<hugo> LaserJock: did not work yet
<LaserJock> hmm
<hugo> LaserJock: did work with ltsp-4.2 partially
<LaserJock> I thought it was supposed to in Edgy
<hugo> how is it supposed to work?
<hugo> where would i see the device?
<hugo> should show up on the desktop, shouldn't it?
<LaserJock> it should show up on the client
<hugo> ltsp channel is not very communicative by the way
<hugo> and sound support?
<hugo> what do I need to do?
<hugo> would I need to set anything in the lts.conf for local devices?
<LaserJock> I don't *think* so but I honestly don't know
<LaserJock> hugo: I would try emailing or looking through the edubuntu-users mailing list
<hugo> fuse group is the hint I was looking for!
<hugo> I have to add the users to fuse group.
<pll> Hi, anyone here?
<LaserJock> I am, but I don't think that counts for much :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<pll> I just downloaded the edubuntu install cd and instaled but X doesn't come up.  There's no xf86cfg or any other X11 config utility installed that I can find.  I'm fairly certain it's an X Server config issue though.  Any ideas?
<Kamping_Kaiser> pll, , what error does it give you?
<pll> None, I just get a blank screen on vt7.
<Kamping_Kaiser> the tool to reconfigure is `sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg` fyi
<pll> the xserver log complains about certain fonts being missing.
<pll> I'll try that, things have changed around so much now that x.org is in the picture :)  I'm a UNIX guy from back when monitors would lose their magic smoke if you misconfigured mode lines :)
<pll> .
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<AmbientMstr> Hmm
<AmbientMstr> Oh ew, this ver is for kids.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ....
<ajmitch> what an endorsement..
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure what he/she thought it was
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<hugo_> how can I make user accounts with an uid below 1000 also show up in the gnome user-admin gui? all accounts above uid 499.
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure if that's possible
<LaserJock> can you do a "show all users"?
<mazzini> hi all, i work in a public school and would to set up a lab with edubuntu... the boxes are networked but there is no connection to internet so i carried a pc to home and i'm using apt-mirror to make a local mirror of edubuntu... i wonder how to make the local mirror available to the other pcs...i guess i have to put /var/spool/apt-mirror/* in a local apache root and made it available or there is a better way?
<LaserJock> mazzini: there might be but that seems like a decent way
<mazzini> LaserJock: just a question since i am mirroring universe and multiverse i have omitted the deb-src (so it takes only 15Giga...) it's ok?
<LaserJock> yeah, you shouldn't need source
<mazzini> LaserJock: thnx
<faeriexboi> heloo
<faeriexboi> i am looking for a little help with setting up an edubuntu server and a guide on how to use School Tool to make schedule system and such for my school.
<faeriexboi> if anyone has help then please email me at faeriexboi@gmail.com
<faeriexboi> ttyl ciao
<juliux> hi all
<ogra> moin juliux
<juliux> hey ogra how cold is it in oslo?
<ogra> -4C
<juliux> same in dresden;)
<willvdl> ogra, how did you type the degree sign
<juliux> willvdl, ogra pls check http://diy.devubuntu.com/dump/edubuntu.png
<willvdl> ok
<ogra> willvdl, 
<ogra> its left of the 1 on my keyboard ...
<ogra> shift+^
<willvdl> ogra, I see :)
<willvdl> I must map some of my extra keys...
<willvdl> juliux, ooh :)
<willvdl> is there a copy of the ubuntu sticker spomewhere? want to compare
<juliux> willvdl, jenda have to upload the ubuntu one;)
<willvdl> eeek. what happened to diy frontpage...
<willvdl> juliux, just saw kubuntu one
<juliux> http://diy.devubuntu.com/repo/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20Stickers/ubuntu.png
<juliux> that is the ubuntu one
<juliux> ogra, what do you think about the sticker?
<willvdl> juliux, I like the 3d effect in the ubuntu one. did you do the edubuntu one?
<juliux> willvdl, no, its jendas work, but i will order 5000 stickers for germany;)
<juliux> willvdl, all over 5000 not 5000 edubuntu;)
<willvdl> ok then :)
<willvdl> back later
<AstralJava> Hi all, I wonder if anyone here has solved a problem in which students and teachers alike can all write to a shared directory, and also delete stuff someone else has written. Is this possible at all without imposing ACLs?
<Kamping_Kaiser> what do you mean?
<peterlyberth> That everyone can delete files in a certain folder?
<AstralJava> Meaning I'd want a shared folder which doesn't have any write restrictions.
<AstralJava> Yeah.
<Kamping_Kaiser> so you want people to be able to read each tothers work, but not delete the files?
<AstralJava> Normal drwxrwxrwx won't inherit into newly created files.
<AstralJava> No, they should be able to delete as well as read.
<Kamping_Kaiser> you'll need to set some sticky bits (i think). which i dont know
<AstralJava> That might work, if all users belonged to a certain group, but that isn't the case here.
<AstralJava> So far sticky bit for gid only preserved the file group ownership, but not the rights.
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent tried something like that
<AstralJava> Okay, thanks anyway. :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry :(
<AstralJava> Not a problem, really. :) Thanks for trying!
<Kamping_Kaiser> np. good luck! :)
<AstralJava> Thank you again!
<Kamping_Kaiser> np :)
<cbx33> Hey all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey cbx33 :)
<cbx33> ogra: TCM update on my blog, will be putting up the bzr release later today
<humbolto> how to get NX (freenx) for EDGY?
<cbx33> someone commented ogra maybe NX is the way we should go.....
<cbx33> brb
<ogra> cbx33, *shudder*
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> hopefully that was at the NX comment
<cbx33> and not at my release comment ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> if *you* want to rewrite NX to be at least basically sane, go ahead ...
<ogra> i'm not opposed to include it then
<cbx33> no I don't
<ogra> currently NX is no option at all
<cbx33> so sunday for looking at TCM yeh?
<cbx33> I'm basically cooling off development until you've seen it now
<ogra> and given upstreams empty promises it wont become an option ...
<cbx33> working on the edubuntu book chapter instead
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> vnc works fine
<ogra> great !
<cbx33> and as I said I may write a small server for it for feisty + 1
<cbx33> ogra: it all works....but requires as I call it the integration work....making it work well with edubuntu
<cbx33> in other words....all the little bits about passwords etc ssh keys and packaging
<ogra> ok
<ogra> we'll tackle that next week
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> I was up at 5:30 this morning again
<cbx33> I'm addicted to TCM
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/testtcm.png
<cbx33> it's looking good
<cbx33> brb
<humbolto> too bad, just a little to late to join the NX conversation.
<humbolto> ogra: By the way, I finished converting my debian sarge + ltsp 4.2 system over to an ubuntu edgy + edubuntu edgy ltsp one.
<ogra> humbolto, there is not much to talk about ... as long as upstream NX insists to ship its onwm copy of xorg inside the code we cant support it at all
<ogra> humbolto, cool
<humbolto> You remember, you told me a lot about ssh in edubuntu ltsp.
<ogra> humbolto, there are mirrors with unofficial NX packages for ubuntu tough ...
<humbolto> So what is your opinion on NX?
<ogra> see above
<humbolto> I always ask myself, if it would not be possible to just take the X proxying part and hook it up to the ends of the current ssh tunnel.
<humbolto> Which part of NX were you guys refering to?
<humbolto> The libs, the freenx thing or the nomachine version.
<ogra> the backend code links to an internal copy of libX
<ogra> thats not supportable
<humbolto> in which part?
<humbolto> the libs itself link to the internal libX copy?
<ogra> all of the
<ogra> *them
<cbx33> what y athink ogra....tcm lookin good?
<humbolto> So it would be necessary to untie them in order to make maintaining the code easier.
<ogra> yep
<humbolto> tcm?
<ogra> humbolto, yes, and thats something ustream promises since 2.5 years ...
<cbx33> thin client manager
<ogra> but they didnt do anything about it yet
<humbolto> cbx33: this is what was outlined as the ltsp-manager in the specs?
<ogra> cbx33, for consistency make it "Screen View" or "Process Viewer"
<ogra> and i dont like that blank and unblank have the same icon ... they should be distinctive ...
<ogra> also my old vnc button should be dropped from the process view
<ogra> its redundant
* ogra goes for a smoke
<cbx33> ok
<humbolto> cbx33: I was always wondering why NX did not make it into the big distros yet. ogra just mentioned the libX issue to me.
<humbolto> cbx33: Is my assumption correct, that you don't like NX having it's own copy of libX, because that way, you depend on them to fix libX problems in their copy, while if it would depend on the xorg version, there would be less code to maintain?
<humbolto> And as a result more security.
<humbolto> Or is NXes libX just too old and broken?
<cbx33> tbh humbolto I'm not too hot on that, ogra will be able to answer that question
<cbx33> I just used vnc as it was in the spec for TCM
<cbx33> and....well....it works
<humbolto> are these the specs? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StudentControlPanelSpec
<cbx33> is the latest spec
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=209
<cbx33> is my blog on the update
<humbolto> incredible! you guys impress me again every day!
<humbolto> this is exactly what a teacher wishes for!
<humbolto> will this already be available in feisty?
<ogra> its already in edgy
<ogra> just not as functional as the feisty one
<humbolto> the next feature certainly will be audio support (to have voice instead of text chat)
<humbolto> I had a glance at what is already available in edgy
<ogra> ltsp-manager will be in feisty as well ... as soon as https://launchpad.net/python-ltsp will be approved by the archive admins i'll start redesigning the frontend
<humbolto> one more thing concerning SSH. you remember, we were talking about performance on old old machines?
<humbolto> I had some 166mmx p1 machines in there.
<humbolto> Well, they did not perform very well, I unfortunately have to report.
<humbolto> I replaced them with faster machines and kept part of them to run on ltsp-4.2 XDMCP still.
<humbolto> I hope I can use them again with edubuntu ltsp once the no-encryption ssh thing is available.
<humbolto> but for now, this is a little drawback
<humbolto> ogra: I did not understand completely how the ssh tunneling works right now. Would you answer me some questions which came up, when I was thinking about that a bit?
<humbolto> ogra: what is the ssh key file used for?
<humbolto> ogra: are the thin clients establishing a connection prior to login?
<juliux> humbolto, how much ram have your old computers?
<humbolto> 64 mb
<juliux> perhaps you can add more ram
<juliux> i have some pcs with the geode cpu and only 200mhz but with 256mb ram they are realy fast
<humbolto> this is more a processor thing I am afraid, since the clients have to do the ssh decryption
<ogra> no, its likely a ram thing ...
<humbolto> really?
<ogra> with 64M the clients will start swapping
<ogra> that slows down everything
<cbx33> yup
<humbolto> I thought I don't need any ram anyway
<cbx33> and that's never good ;)
<ogra> you could disable features to avoid the swapping
<humbolto> since only the kernel and x is running there basically
<ogra> local device support and sound are eating some memory
<humbolto> is swapping enabled automatically?
<humbolto> I did not see any swap exports
<ogra> X takes some as well ... but thats soething you cant avoid
<ogra> swap is enabled automatically in edubuntu edgy ...
<ogra> s/in/since/
<humbolto> but why did they perform so well with ltsp-42?
<cbx33> ogra if I start writing my chapter for feisty edubuntu with the herd cd as it is, should that be a good indication
<humbolto> how much ram is sufficient then?
<antoniou> hello everyone
<humbolto> I thought the thing works with 24mb now (just with swapping probably).
<antoniou> hello ogra
<ogra> humbolto, if sbalneav is around, ask him for the ssh server package that works with encryption=none ... i know he has such a package ... it might speed up
<ogra> hey antoniou
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! I had to reinstall the edubuntu server due to a hd crash, all is going quite well, but I still have a problem: some client boot well, otros stop with a Busybox shell saying: "/bin/sh/: can't access tty; job control turned off", and waiting for a command. Any hint what could be the reason? thank you!
<ogra> humbolto, 64M work fine without extra features ...
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, seems your clients cant mount the nfs root
<humbolto> extra features like ltspfs and sound?
<ogra> right
<humbolto> concerning the ssh-keys, the once I generate with ltsp-update-sshkeys
<ogra> ltspfs needs some space for caching etc ...
<humbolto> what are theys keys used for?
<ogra> for the ssh handshake if you log in
<paolob-parroquia> ogra: could be that, in the other console it says: "mount: NFS mount failed: bad file descriptor", and keeps on with various "no such file or directory" referring to various mounting
<ogra> if you ssh on comandline you get this yes/no question weather to accept the connection or not ...
<humbolto> but I can't access the keys via nfs and get access to the server with them alone?
<ogra> if yu  answer it with yes the server key is stored locally ...
<humbolto> I understand
<ogra> ltsp-update-sshkeys does exactly that
<ogra> so the question doesnt come up
<humbolto> Thought it is used for auth to get some pre login connection
<ogra> nope
<humbolto> great
<ogra> its only to prevent that question
<humbolto> and the none-enc ssh server. what if somebody form the WAN wan
<humbolto> wants to log on with enc none?
<ogra> the ssh server has an option to override that ... but it makes the conection insecure, so we went the way of copying the key into the client environment
<humbolto> can I forbid that?
<ogra> no
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, I rm'ed the ltsp tree and rerun ltsp-build-client, where could be located the problem?
<ogra> if he has a bvalid user account he can log in as on every other open ssh server
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, surely on your nfs server
<humbolto> and choose which enc to use (as long as it is allowed on the server)
<ogra> check if its running and if you can mount /opt/ltsp from it
<ogra> (from another workstation)
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, it's running, and it restarts without problems
<cbx33> ogra: do we have a documented troubleshooting document for LTSP/NFS problems?
<cbx33> I was thinking of adding a section for it into the edubuntu chapter
<ogra> cbx33, that would be nice ...
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, in /etc/exports I have "/opt/ltsp       *(ro,no_root_squash,async)"
<paolob-parroquia> is it ok?
<ogra> there is a doc on the ltsp wiki, please chack that as well
<ogra> about package size ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, yep perfect
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, reinstalling some package?
<ogra> can you use a workstation in the same network and try to mount it from there ?
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, ??
<cbx33> ogra, I'm sorry I'm having to ask you about lot's of stuff for this chapter ;)
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, I wonder if reinstalling nfs package could help me...
<ogra> nope
<humbolto> I would like to help with documentation for this project. Is there a wiki page I could contribute too?
<paolob-parroquia> ogra but the strange thing is that 3 of the 40 client boot well...
<cbx33> paolob-parroquia: trying mounting from another machine manually
<cbx33> that always helps me
<ogra> humbolto, willvdl coordinates most of the doc stuff
<humbolto> tnx
<cbx33> humbolto: some docs on how you manage to get it working well on 64Mb machines will be great once you've done them ;)
<humbolto> Short doc. Put in more RAM.
<humbolto> Will 128 do?
<cbx33> haha
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, try adding: "MOPTS=nolock,ro,wsize=2048,rsize=2048" to the kernel line in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<humbolto> What is a sufficient size with all services enabled (no local apps)
<humbolto> sound, ltspfs (printing)
<ogra> 128 should be fine
<cbx33> ogra: what's that for....i could add it to the trouble shooting guide
<humbolto> vnc access from the student-control-panel
<ogra> cbx33, packaetsize of nfs packages ...
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, I did it, what service must I restart
<paolob-parroquia> ?
<ogra> on busy networks it can prevent timeouts
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, the thin client
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, ok, let me see
<cbx33> thanks ogra
<ogra> anyway, i need to do some work now ...
<ogra> nuff support ...
<cbx33> *bah*
<cbx33> ogra: I am going to need to tap your brain at some point
<cbx33> after sunday ;)
<ogra> yes
<ogra> mdz will get angry if i spend all the time they felw me to oslo with support ...
<ogra> *flew
<cbx33> you're in oslo now?
<cbx33> cool....
<cbx33> you get on with it then dude.....
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, I bit better: some client more booted up...
<cbx33> speak to you later ;)
<ogra> cbx33, yes until friday and i have to implemet 3 specs til then ... i have done 1/2 yet ... too much chatting ...
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, try to raise the values ... http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NFS has more info
<cbx33> go go go
<paolob-parroquia> ogra,  sudo showmount -e gives "rpc mount export: RPC: Timed out"
<paolob-parroquia> ogra: I raised the values to 4096 and 4096, but that's worse: no client is arriving to the graphic login.
<peterlyberth> I saw a cheap opteron based server, and thougt it would be great as an Edubuntu server. But opteron is a 64 bit cpu, so wont that give problems with flash and so?
<paolob-parroquia> they stop with a "mount: RPC timed out" and "mount: NFS mount failed: bad file descriptor" and the various "no such file or directory"
<sbalneav> Morning all
<peterlyberth> Anyone running edubuntu on a opteron based server?
<peterlyberth> Wont the 64 bit cpu eliminate an easy way for the users to ger flash?
<peterlyberth> Allo?
<bddebian> Heya
<peterlyberth> hya
<peterlyberth> What kind of cpu would you recommend for at edubuntu server setup?
<sbalneav> peterlyberth: Depends.  How many people are you looking to support?
<peterlyberth> sbalneav: a small five client setup
<sbalneav> For only 5 clients, just about any reasonable desktop machine should work.
<sbalneav> High end pentium 3 or Athlon XP would be fine.
<peterlyberth> Wow!
<sbalneav> Anything above that would just be gravy
<sbalneav> Just make sure it's got lots of ram.
<peterlyberth> I saw a cheap opteron server. Whould that be a wise buy?
<ogra> s/gravy/extendable/ :P
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> That will give you lots of growth potential.
<ogra> :)
<peterlyberth> The thing is that the users will be kids And kids=flash. And flash aint 64 bit...
<sbalneav> Run it in 32 bit mode then.
<peterlyberth> Does the opteron cpu support 32 bit?
<peterlyberth> Damn just googled. It suport 32 bit
<peterlyberth> My bad
<peterlyberth> Then the opteron it is:-)
<peterlyberth> Thanks for the help
<elkardi> need help to install edubuntu to thumb drive
<sbalneav> elkardi: I don't think installation to a thumb drive's a supported installation method.  You might be able to get it to go, but it will take a lot of work.  Why do you need it on a thumb drive?
<cbx33> ogra, herd2 seems broken here
<cbx33> get past choosing keyboard, but then it hangs
<cbx33> and switching to vtt4 yields kernel not found messages over and over agin
<ogra> cbx33, sure you downloaded herd2 ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> cdimages.ubuntu.com
<ogra> and there ?
<cbx33> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-2/
<ogra> hmm, i tested it on three different machines ...
<cbx33> hmm....I wonder why it doesn;t work here
<ogra> anyway, no way to fix it if its broken now ...
<cbx33> no....but...i need to insstall feisty
<cbx33> ;)
<elkardi> sbalneav: i don't want to spend to much money on hard drive.
<cbx33> maybe I should md5sum it
<cbx33> check it's valid?
<cbx33> can I md5sum a cd?
<migi> cbx33, why not
<cbx33> migi...doing it now ;)
<sbalneav> elkardi: The standard installation doesn't allow for installation to a thumb drive.  Are you planning on running terminals off of this installation?
<cbx33> ogra md5sum matches
<cbx33> did I mention this is a vmware machine
<cbx33> I'll try it again
<elkardi> sbalneav: i already install it (by following the guide from ubuntu), but went boot it say cannot find kernal :
<cbx33> ogra, occasionally, i see other messages popping by
<cbx33> is there anyway to connect to the outside world from the alternative install cd busybox
<cbx33> so that I can copy accross the syslog
<ogra> cbx33, you can install the ssh client somehow from the installer menu
<ogra> then you can scp it
<cbx33> ahh ok
<cbx33> thanks dude
<ogra> dont ask about the exact steps its a while ago i did that
<ogra> (i usually have a aprtition i can just mount to copy it to)
<cbx33> i just found the tiem
<ogra> *partition
<cbx33> but...
<cbx33> its the first hardware scan that it fails at
<cbx33> which it requires to find the cd
<cbx33> ogra I was stung by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/80294
<ogra> ah, yeah, thats a mean one
<cliebow_> ok dumbo question..how to get riight click in poerpc??
<ogra> f12
<cliebow_> heh:didnt want to plague you!
<Laser_away> ogra: is there a particular reason to do scribus-ng over scribus?
<Laser_away> I was thinking about that the other day
<ogra> <mrdocs> "As we announced previously, there will be no more development or bug fixes to 1.2.x series. We now recommend all distributions package only Scribus 1.3.3.x."
<ogra> thats what i was just told in #scribus
<Laser_away> oh wow
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> howz it going?
<LaserJock> doing good, I think ;-)
<cbx33> excelelnt
<cbx33> seen how far tcm has come?
<LaserJock> I saw your blog post
<LaserJock> rockin'
<humboldt> sbalneav: ogra told me, you might have an openssh-server package which offers a "none" encryption option.
<cbx33> ogra.....does the 6% select and install software step take longer now?
<cbx33> mine seems frozen
<cbx33> tty4 shows just the in-target: list of pacakges
<cbx33> CD is thrashing away
<cbx33> but nothing much happening
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> it;'s doing something now
<juliux> cbx33, ogra is not here;)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> oh yeh
<juliux> he left 19:17
<cbx33> i see that now
<cbx33> in fact I saw before I wrote the message
<cbx33> but forgot
<sbalneav> humboldt: Yes, I patched openssh to accept the "none" encryption algorythm.
<cbx33> sbalneav, you rock
<sbalneav> Well, what I understand is that the official openssh packages in feisty will support this as well.
<LaserJock> I don't quite understand why it's needed
<LaserJock> is the encryption that much of a problem?
<cbx33> slows down older machines in edubuntu
<cbx33> so I've heard
<sbalneav> On a low-powered client
<sbalneav> yes
<sbalneav> If you've got a pentium 75, doing ANY encryption's painful :)
<LaserJock> well, but it seems to me like that wouldn't make a very good thin client anyway
<LaserJock> but I can see where at some point any little improvment helps
<cbx33> hheh
<sbalneav> LaserJock: down in Brazil, P75's is all they got :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, it'll make a great difference to them then
<LaserJock> yeah, but those Brazilians are crazy :-)
<sbalneav> One of the things you very quickly realize working with LTSP is: there's still a LOT of people using hardware that's at least 10 years old or greater.
<sbalneav> And if you can turn a lab full of p75's from being bricks into useful machines, then "Viva la revelocion!" says I.
<LaserJock> well, I found out about a week ago I get to teach this semester
<sbalneav> Hey!
<sbalneav> Congrats!
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> Tenure's next
<LaserJock> not exactly
<LaserJock> just labs
<LaserJock> but then this weekend I learned I'm co- Head TA / Computer Lab TA
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> i love teaching
<sbalneav> Once you have tenure, then you only need to teach one intro course per semester, and spend all the rest of your time on Ubuntu :)
<ajmitch> hi
<LaserJock> so I'm in charge of the computer lab too
<LaserJock> so I went looking for it
* sbalneav used to work tech support at the University of Winnipeg :)
<LaserJock> and I found it in the library on the 3rd floor
<sbalneav> hello ajmitch
<LaserJock> but they bought all brand new machines :/
<LaserJock> shiney new flat panel Dells
<LaserJock> so although they are nice, I think that shoots my idea of turning it into an LTSP lab
<ajmitch> and you get to put ubuntu on them all? ;)
<LaserJock> no
<ajmitch> what a waste of machines
<LaserJock> now that they've bought new computer I'm sure they don't want me mucking around with them
<LaserJock> with the old ones I couldn't do much harm ;-)
<sbalneav> What he needs is for a lab-wide "hard drive crash" to occurr.
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> For a small fee, in cash, small, unmarked bills only, please, I can arrange that to happen.
<LaserJock> "Donno what happened, all 12 computers had some sort of sticky substance in there hard drives"
<LaserJock> "Looks like honey or something"
* LaserJock enters
<LaserJock> "Well, I have a solution for you!"
<sbalneav> "Yeah, and when the dell guy showed up to fix it, a big anvil with '20 tons' painted on the side fell on his head"
<LaserJock> haha, "the dell guy showed up" that's rich
<LaserJock> ;-)
<sbalneav> Thought you'd like that :)
<LaserJock> well, seriously, I think they are getting rid of the computer lab anyway
<LaserJock> I think a lot of it's due to Windows
<ajmitch> getting rid of it by getting new systems?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> well, they may buy some laptops
<LaserJock> but they are finding that computer labs just aren't cost effective anymore
<cbx33> hi ajmitch
<LaserJock> at least for individual departments
<LaserJock> all people were doing in ours is IM'ing and surfing the web
<LaserJock> they weren't learning anything and they didn't have much access to chemistry apps
<cbx33> grrr the ltsp build step of the install failed
<LaserJock> so for the amount of space it takes and people to run a computer lab
<LaserJock> it's not worth it
<cbx33> sbalneav, is it just ltsp-build-client with no options to build a client on edubuntu now?
<sbalneav> yuppers
<sbalneav> You can always mirror from the cd with the --mirror option
<sbalneav> to speed up package getting.
<ajmitch> cbx33: how's TCM coming along?
<cbx33> ajmitch, check the blog...heheh almost done
<cbx33> lemme link you
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=209
<cbx33> it's looking swish
<ajmitch> fancy
<cbx33> heheh....
<cbx33> yeh it's getting there
<cbx33> ogra and I plan to look at it on sunday
<cbx33> till then I'm book chapter writing
<cbx33> sbalneav, been looking at the ltsp website...
<cbx33> I'm writing the edubuntu chapter for the official ubuntu book
<cbx33> got any trouble shooting tips?
<cbx33> I want an ltsp trouble shooting page
<sbalneav> I've actually got a ton of them.  They were in a disconnected "troubleshooting" section on the edubuntu handbook.
<sbalneav> But since the svn server's changed, I'm not sure where they are.
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> i saw some on the wiki
<cbx33> but want some really common ones
<cbx33> if you could dig something out for me that'd be great?
<sbalneav> Sure.
* ajmitch wonders what ogra is up to this week
<cbx33> oslo - and 3 specs
<cbx33> he's hard at work
<ajmitch> yeah, but just what is he working on?
<ajmitch> I knew he was in oslo, and I know he's got 3 specs to do :)
<cbx33> oh check his specs page
<cbx33> they are 3 edubuntu specs I believe
<ajmitch> yes, edubuntu-2-cds, -network-auth-{client,server}
<cbx33> there ya go ;)
<ajmitch> but I wanted to know what he was doing for them, especiialy network-auth-client :)
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> no idea
<ajmitch> since I've been hacking stuff related to that this week
<ajmitch> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuNetworkAuthClient
<ajmitch> given that implementation there depends on my code still, I need to get the package into shape asap
<ajmitch> since it should have been done awhile ago
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> i see
<cbx33> mail him and see;)
<ajmitch> pfft
* ajmitch will just harass him on irc later
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> sbalneav, got a sec?
<sbalneav> yep
<sbalneav> whassup?
<cbx33> should the dhcp-server be automatically started in feisty?
<cbx33> i just did an install of edubuntu
<cbx33> and it didn't start the dhcp server
<cbx33> is that normal?
<cbx33> do I need to start it manually
<sbalneav> did you install "ltsp-server" or "ltsp-server-standalone"?
<sbalneav> -standalone gets you the dhcp server.
<cbx33> i did a default install of edubuntu feisty
<sbalneav> Oh, then it should start automagically
<sbalneav> if it doesn't, that's a paddlin'
<cbx33> hmm.....it didn't
<sbalneav> err, that's a bug
<cbx33> could it be because the ltsp-build-client failed?
<sbalneav> BUG!!! SQUASH IT!!!
<sbalneav> sssssshouldn't be, I wouldn't think, because the dhcpd is installed long before the ltsp-build-client is run, methinks.
<cbx33> hmm
<sbalneav> Where's the pointer to the feisty edubuntu iso?
<cbx33> where should I check to see if its run
<sbalneav> I grabbed ubuntu feisty on the weekend, but not edubuntu?
<sbalneav> s/\?/\./
<stelis> sbalneav: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-2/
<sbalneav> excellent, torrenting it now.
<sbalneav> thankee
<sbalneav> hmmm
<sbalneav> kinda slow on the torrent.
<sbalneav> "connecting to peers (0.0%)
<cbx33> I've never used torrent
<stelis> I don't know whether this link was advertised outside the edubuntu mailing list
<sbalneav> A wget will do,too
<stelis> Or it could just be blocked ports
<stelis> You need 6881-6889 inclusive
<stelis> And your ISP has to allow them to :)
<sbalneav> I've torrented other stuff, that works fine.
<sbalneav> wget ahoy
<sbalneav> Man, between wget, bttorrentcurses, and screen, I never have to wait for downloads.
<sbalneav> Kick 'em off at home on my box while I'm at work, detach the screen, dl's done by the time I'm home from work.
<sbalneav> Who says the command line's dead?
<stelis> Not me.
<stelis> Nor MS - they released a new shell for Windows a while ago...
<cbx33> oh I thought they took it out of vista
<cbx33> they did have one
<stelis> It's now a separate download...I ran it on XP
<LaserJock> sbalneav: my wget still has over an hour :/
<sbalneav> BillG C:\> rename bash.exe command.exe
<LaserJock> sbalneav: are you hogging it? :p
<sbalneav> Yep.
<sbalneav> All my packets are tagged with the "NoLaserJock" QOS bit set.
<LaserJock> :(
<sbalneav> Hey, any scuttlebut on where the next UDC is going to be?
<sbalneav> Beuhler? anyone? anyone?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: Spain
<LaserJock> not sure what city though
<sbalneav> Cool
<LaserJock> I'm thinking I probably won't get to attend
<LaserJock> I've got too much to do this spring
* ajmitch doubts he'll go
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> sbalneav, the dhcpserver failed
<cbx33> where can I find logs?
<sbalneav> /var/log/daemon.log
<cbx33> thanks
<sbalneav> what's your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file look like?
<cbx33> well it's autogenerated now
<cbx33> isnt it
<cbx33> apparently
<cbx33> No subnet declaration
<cbx33> and not configured to listen on any interface
<stelis> Same here - I've just tried to start DHCP on edubuntu herd2
<cbx33> ogra said "it worked first time for me"
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> I'll load it tonight.
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> sbalneav, can you give me any clues on how to fix?
<cbx33> I'll pastebin a config file
<LaserJock> cbx33: could it have something to do with your vmware network configuration?
<cbx33> possible but unlikely
<cbx33> it's worked before on dapper
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/326092
<cbx33> seems pretty close to the one in the getting started guide
<sbalneav> That seems right.
<sbalneav> so what does "invokerc.d dhcp3-server restart" give you?
<cbx33> sbalneav, where do we set which network device the server runs off of?
<cbx33> maybe that's it
<cbx33> in the installation, is the first primary network device which we select in the edubuntu install the LTSP side of the network or the other side
<cbx33> also the eth1 device isnt "configured" according to the gnome networking tool
<cbx33> could that be having an effect?
<cbx33> it's not in /etc/network/interfaces either
<sbalneav> Probably
<cbx33> any help?
<sbalneav> What are the terminals set up on, the second interface?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> well i want them to be
<sbalneav> I was under the impression that ogra had set it up so that the unused interface WOULD become the ltsp interface, and the dhcpd would run on that one.
<sbalneav> So maybe it's an installation bug.
<sbalneav> I'll try it tonight on a two interface machine.
<cbx33> how would I manually set it up
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> or is it complicated?
<sbalneav> What's the ip address of your primary interface?
<cbx33> it's dhcp assigned
<sbalneav> Nah, nothing's ever complicated. :)
<cbx33> the intaller did that
<sbalneav> ok, but what RANGE?
<sbalneav> 192.168.0.x?
<cbx33> 192.168.16.
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> easy peasy then
<sbalneav> manually confugure your eth1 to be 192.168.0.254
<sbalneav> 255.255.255.0
<cbx33> ok
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-sshkeys
<sbalneav> invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server start
<sbalneav> bob
<sbalneav> bob's yer uncle
<cbx33> what for the gateway?
<cbx33> or should I leave that blank
<sbalneav> Don't need that one.
<sbalneav> You're not going to route off the interface, so it doesn't matter.
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> still failed
<cbx33> it's still trying to tie it to eth0
<cbx33> where is that set?
<sbalneav> take a look in /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<sbalneav> what's it say in the options line?
<cbx33> hang on
<sbalneav> INTERFACES=""?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> thats it
<sbalneav> Man, if I had a nickle for every dhcpd problem I've solved, I'd have a bunch of nickles :)
<sbalneav> INTERFACES="eth1"
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> doing now
<sbalneav> They don't have nickles in Britain, if I remember.
<sbalneav> But you don't use pence, shillings, etc any more, either.
<cbx33> GRRR
<cbx33> now it says
<sbalneav> what doesn daemon.log say?
<cbx33> no subnet for eth1 (0.0.0.0)
<sbalneav> is eth1 up?
<sbalneav> ifconfig eth1
<sbalneav> betcha it isn;t
<sbalneav> betcha betcha betcha
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> and it can't bring it up for some reason
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/326114
<cbx33> too few parameters for iface line
<cbx33> :(
<sbalneav> Can't get it up, eh?  Geez, and you havn't even been married for 15 years like me :)
<sbalneav> bwahahaha
<sbalneav> yeah, that's a bug I ran into the other night.
<blue-frog> cbx33: inet static
<sbalneav> check the iface line
<sbalneav> iface eth1 inet static
<blue-frog> iface eth1 inet static
<sbalneav> add the static
<cbx33> grrrr
<sbalneav> network mangler has a problem.
<sbalneav> durned gui tools
<cbx33> yeh indeed
<sbalneav> vi ALWAYS works :)
<cbx33> w00t
<sbalneav> \o/
<cbx33> has that bug been bugged?
<sbalneav> Dunno.  I was going to file it tonight if not.
<cbx33> please do
<cbx33> hehe
<sbalneav> "Gui tools: causing more problems than they solve since 1985!"
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> flippin eck
<sbalneav> :D\-<
<sbalneav> :D|-<
<sbalneav> :D/-<
<cbx33> just got tonnes of ata exception errors
<cbx33> but it's working
<cbx33> kernel has some bugs that need to be worked out
<sbalneav> More prophetic words were never spoken.
<cbx33> thanks so much sbalneav
<cbx33> I owe you
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! I am still with the problems with the clients that don't want to boot up after the restore of the backup. What do you reccomend me:
<paolob-parroquia> 1. apt-get reistall all the packages
<paolob-parroquia> 2. reistall the whole sistem from cd
<paolob-parroquia> ?
<LaserJock> the server works fine though otherwise?
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, are you asking me?
<LaserJock> paolob-parroquia: yes
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, yes the server works fine, the problem is that the clients doesn't boot up, they stop with a busybox console, the problem is an error with nfs mounting
<cbx33> thanks so much sbalneav
<LaserJock> paolob-parroquia: so it seems a little harsh when it's only the client chroot or LTSP that would be the problem
<LaserJock> to completley reinstall
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, I think so
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, no, I think the ltsp chroot is ok, because I reinstalled it with ltsp-build-client. Supposedly the problem isn't in the ltsp tree
<paolob-parroquia> LaserJock, and nfs works fine (apparently): I can mount /opt/ltsp from another pc
<LaserJock> well, but LTSP is where the client get's the kernel, I think
<sbalneav> paolob-parroquia: What's the contents of your /etc/exports?
<paolob-parroquia> sbalneav, I checked it with ogra, it's ok
<sbalneav> Then it should work.
<sbalneav> Do the client's boot the kernel?
<sbalneav> WHere do they stop, exactly?
<cbx33> sbalneav, hmmm......that worked, but....now the dhcp server is serving addresses on eth0 as well :(
<cbx33> and interfering with my other dhcp server
<sbalneav> shouldn't, if you set the INTERFACES="eth1" line.
<cbx33> swat i thought
<cbx33> unless the devices are the other way round
<peter_lybertt> Say the users all need evolution, now is there a way to automate the setup process?
<Kamping_Kaiser> peter_lybertt, ?
<peter_lybertt> I mean if there is say 30 users, who all need to use evolution, but cant set it up them selves. Then it would be a crap job, set 30 email accounts up in evolution.
<peter_lybertt> So is there a script or program which can automate the process
<Kamping_Kaiser> i doubt it tbh
<peter_lybertt> to bad. I didnt thought so, but perhaps some of u pro's knew of some kind of program
<Kamping_Kaiser> if you find one let me know... i do it by hand :|
<stelis> IIRC, Red Hat developed something for storing Evo user settings in LDAP
<peter_lybertt> stelis: Is it avalible for download?
<stelis> Probably...it was written by one of their developers (Mark McGlouglin?), and I don't know if it's a formal product
<stelis> http://live.gnome.org/Evolution/GConfLDAPBackend
<peter_lybertt> stelis: Thanks!
#edubuntu 2007-01-24
* highvoltage ... needs... sleep
<LaserJock> what are you still doing up?
<cbx33> nn guys
<sbalneav> Evening all
<ajmitch> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello ajmitch
<RichEd> morning
<Burgundavia> morning RichEd
<RichEd> hi corey ... how's things ?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<cbx33> Hey RichEd
<RichEd> hey cbx33
<RichEd> big up to cbx33 for his great work and enthusiam at BETT !
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> thanks RichEd
<cbx33> howz it going
<willvdl> cbx33, I never check the fridge :) did something go up?
<RichEd> cbx33: good thanks ... feel alive again ... was badly badly sick on mon
<cbx33> willvdl: not yet
<cbx33> highvoltage: was sorting something out
<willvdl> coooool
<cbx33> how are you willvdl
<willvdl> busy busy busy :)
<willvdl> but good. how's LTCM coming? got screenshots?
<highvoltage> cbx33: please ping me about that again later today btw
<cbx33> highvoltage: will do
<cbx33> willvdl: it's just TCM now
<cbx33> and yes
<cbx33> there are screenshots
<willvdl> links links!
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
<willvdl> looking good
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> is ntfs write support stable yet?
<willvdl> which are the edubuntu lists on ubuntuforums.org?
<cbx33> ogra: I had herd 2 fail on me yesterday whilst building the ltsp root
<cbx33> something about a malformed URI line 2
<cbx33> in the the apt sources file
<ogra> cbx33, that was fixed in the last iso we released
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> thought I'd mention it to you
<cbx33> what about dhcp auto generation
<ogra> did you install with network connection and did it pull upgrades or something ?
<ogra> (i reverted the quick fix so in that case it would break)
<cbx33> i installed with network
<cbx33> and built the root afterwards
<cbx33> however I had big problems with the dhcp
<ogra> (ltsp-build-client is run with "--sercurity-mirror none", the quick fix was to ignore that line, the real fix was to remove it completely)
<cbx33> when it asks in the install which is primary network device
<ogra> so if you have a half/half system due to network upgrades, it will break ...
<cbx33> is that meant to be the ltsp side card
<cbx33> or the internet side
<ogra> internet indeed
<cbx33> ok good
<ogra> i'll talk to cjwatson to change the wording
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> now
<cbx33> what about my dhcp problems
<cbx33> someone else last night had the same issue
<cbx33> the dhcp server didn't start automatically, because of a failure
<cbx33> and the failure was that it was trying to setup the dhcp server on eth0
<cbx33> not eth1
<cbx33> the interfaces line in the /etc/defaults/dhcp(something) had no interfaces listed
<cbx33> brb
<cbx33> ogra: is that a known issue?
<cbx33> it also didn't activate or setup eth1 with an ip address
<ogra> cbx33, thats how it's supposed to be, never ever touch /etc/defaults/dhcp
<ogra> else you break dhcpd's autodetection and are doomed to always use that setup ...
<cbx33> sbalneav told me to
<cbx33> well it wasn't doing the auto detection
<cbx33> it also interferred with my main network.....I have no idea how
<cbx33> as I have a dhcp server running there also
<cbx33> well....it whinged about eth0 to begin with, and said it didn't have a subnet for it
<ogra> it does the autodetection if a proper /etc/ltsp/dhcpd conf exists
<cbx33> but it wasn't supposed to be setup on eth 0
<cbx33> so assuming it just moves onto the next interface
<cbx33> ??
<ogra> right thats a warning from the autodetection
<ogra> right
<cbx33> but eth1 was never setup
<cbx33> in the /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> it walks all interfaces and checks for a valid config
<cbx33> is that the installers problem?
<ogra> not really ...
<ogra> did the dhcp config work right for the outbound interfaces ?
<ogra> -s
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> once I enabled the iface
<cbx33> in the /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> if the netcfg config worked right and you selected the right outbound interface then its a bug in ltsp-client-builder if it didnt add the second one to /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> if you selected the wrong interface for outbund ltsp-client-builder is supposed to do nothing and show you a warning that you have to do it manually
<cbx33> then it's a bug
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> does the client builder setup the iface then?
<ogra> if you didnt get that wanring *and* didnt get a second iface configured even though you selected the right one in the first interface selection, tats a bug
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-cd/+bug/81250 :)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ogra: is ltsp manager going to be ready for fesity?
<ogra> not sure yet, python-ltsp will surely be ready ... not sure if i make it to get the gui part done
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcfg/+bug/81251 :)
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> we should look what parts of TCM we can merge into python-ltsp
<ogra> (in feisty+1)
<cbx33> yes defintely
<ogra> i'd like it to be the central backend for everything ltsp related
<cbx33> good idea
<cbx33> i only foung out the other day you were doing it
<ogra> its part of the spec :)
<ogra> even though that doesnt talk about a python module :)
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> ogra: well, as soon as you know about the ltsp manager I'd appreciate a nod, as it affects the edubuntu chapter quite significantly ;)
<cbx33> we still update the nfs root by chrooting in right?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> and ltsp-update-kernels
<cbx33> for updating the kernel
<ogra> even though python-ltsp shuld get a function for the most common stuff as well ...
<cbx33> do we yet support multiarch?
<ogra> only amd64/i386 ...
<cbx33> I'll still tell them the old way for now
<cbx33> and what how do you do 64
<ogra> in either direction ...
<cbx33> buid the nfs root on another mchine and coyp acrss?
<ogra> ??
<cbx33> oh
<ogra> you mean powerpc ?
<cbx33> you mean 64 boots from the 32 bit one?
<ogra> there is an unfinished howto ... but since we drop ppc officially with feisty anyway, i'm not sure we need to cover it
<cbx33> yikes do we...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> that was the decision, yes
<cbx33> so for 64 we basically do nothing right?
<ogra> (i dont agree with it)
<cbx33> as it boots from the 32
<ogra> right
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> I'm putting in about coexisting with another dhcp server and multi booting
<ogra> you can have an amd64 chroot on a i386 server as well ... but i think thats a corner case ...
<cbx33> ogra: I'll leave that one
<ogra> please send it to me if you are done
<cbx33> sbalneav is going to get me some trouble shooting tips
<ogra> the dhcp stuff is pretty critical and needs to be perfectly right
<cbx33> I was hoping you'd take a look through it and suggest changes ;)
<cbx33> I know it is
<ogra> well, he gave you a wrong hint already
<cbx33> I know
<cbx33> haha
<ogra> thats why i'm worried
<cbx33> it was basically just to get it working
<cbx33> I don;t think he was saying to do it as a defaco solution
<cbx33> though he didn't say it would break autodetection
<ogra> right, but if you document it we'll end up without autodetection for many users :)
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> I won;t do that
<cbx33> i just needed a working thin client
<ogra> right, thats why i'd like to see it before publishing ;)
<cbx33> yes I WANT you to
<cbx33> no no...rephrase... you MUST
<cbx33> oh and can my reboot button go on the ldm login page...i sent yo ua diff a while back
<cbx33> pretty please ;)
<cbx33> I'm trying to talk about feisty and dapper....as the book should be based on feisty but many peple will be running LTS
* ajmitch wonders what else is needed next for authtool apart from improved GUI, PAM handling & standard debconf cruft
<ogra> cbx33, sure
<cbx33> do you want to see the chapter as it stands soon....
<cbx33> or wait till like another week
<cbx33> first draft is in by 8th Feb
<cbx33> same date as FF
<ogra> i'm to busy with other stuff now ... lets go over it if we discuss TCM
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> and I'm hoping you mean
<cbx33> s/if/when
<ogra> i mean sunday :P
<cbx33> good
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> ping willvdl
<willvdl> pong
<cbx33> did canonical contact the t-shirt guys yet?
<willvdl> ajmitch, documentation? :)
<ajmitch> pfft
<ajmitch> who needs it?
<ajmitch> :)
<willvdl> cbx33, I hope so. will check
<ajmitch> yeah, I'll try & write some, it's been on my todo list
* ajmitch is off to sleep now
<willvdl> ajmitch, ag if the GUI's good enough, who needs help?
<willvdl> ogra, where is the best LTSP support channel? #ltsp or here?
<ogra> #ltsp for generic ltsp questions ... here for ubuntu ...
<ogra> i think its really up to the user ... i wont force edubuntu users from #ltsp to here if they ask there (or the other way around)
<ogra> the two main developers (sbalneav and me) are in both channels anyway
* ogra goes for a smoke
<willvdl> cool. just updating list of irc channels for edubuntu users
<cbx33> ogra: another one :p
<willvdl> cbx33, being processed
<ogra> cbx33, btw, is your key signed finally ? if so, just upload TCM ;)
<cbx33> yes it's signed
<cbx33> ogra: it's b0rked in it's current state ;)
<cbx33> as in lots of things not setup
<cbx33> like al the ssh key stuff
<cbx33> that's where you come int
<ogra> cbx33, yes, i dont care
<ogra> feisty is in active development, things are supposed to break !
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll get a pacakge together
<ogra> great
<cbx33> well i need two now don;t i
<cbx33> shuld I do the split now?
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> brb
<highvoltage> ogra: I just did some bandwidth testing with the tuxlab diskless fat client implementation, and it only sends/receives a total of 110.16MB during boot
<cbx33> nice
<highvoltage> ogra: I'd imagine thin clients would read much less, so it's probably not worth putting the entire chroot into ramdisk for performance increases
<cbx33> ogra: are the details of how to upload to universe?
<cbx33> I've never done it before
<highvoltage> ogra: I still think that caching the files to RAM more aggresively would be more optimal, it's just a question of figuring out how :)
<ogra> cbx33, SCP is in main ... upload it anywhere and i can forward it ...
<cbx33> oh i see
<ogra> so your name sticks on the package
<cbx33> i thought you mean upload it to universe
<ogra> thats the important part ...
<cbx33> ahh i see
<ogra> if you ever go for main upload rights you will need sponsored packages in main
<cbx33> ah i see
<cbx33> the new code will have to be secutiry audited no?
<ogra> nope ... onyl for main inclusion ... SCP is in main already
<cbx33> crikey....but the code has changed dramatically
<ogra> unless you actually *want* a security audit
<cbx33> I'm happy with an ogra security audit
<cbx33> obvioauly I've done my best...but remember I am still a fairly new coder
<ogra> right, i'll look over it ... if i struggle i'll forward to pitti
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> lots of praise for you in #ltsp btw :)
<cbx33> sounds ggggrrrrreat
<ogra> i posted the screenshots  :)
<cbx33> really? cool
<cbx33> let's just hope it all works
<cbx33> from 28th-1st I'll be addressing any TCM related issues from our discussion on sunday
<cbx33> and after that it'll be book book book
<ogra> oki
<cbx33> what form will changes after FF take?
<cbx33> just bug fixes?
<willvdl> highvoltage, is it possible to make the http url icon for our wiki pages smaller? It seems rather large and messes up my line spacing :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: link?
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij/ScratchPad
<willvdl> for example. the globe icon thingy
<willvdl> versus the globe in https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HelpOnLinking
<highvoltage> willvdl: ah, now I understand
<willvdl> or is it my browser settings? :)
<willvdl> Edubuntu meeting in 6 minutes?
<ogra> cbx33, yes, bugfixes ...
* pips1 looks around
<willvdl> hey pips1
<willvdl> === Edubuntu Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now ===
<pips1> ah
<pips1> ogra: there is an article on the thinstation project in the latest c't magazine, did you see it?
<pips1> I'm talking about http://www.thinstation.org/
<pips1> hi
<pips1> willvdl: I really feel it would help to get in touch with RichEd, since both of us have talked a great deal about the whole *ubuntu "web galaxy" and how edubuntu and education fits into the big picture... also, I think RichEd has talked to Matt about it at 'All Hands', so I don't want start talking to Matt separately now, since I feel that RichEd show have the overview.
<pips1> s/show/should
<ogra> which matt are you referring to ?
<pips1> Matt Nuzum
<ogra> ah
<ogra> (the other one is sitting next to me atm ... thought you meant mdz)
<pips1> ah, no :)
<pips1> You go on implementing ubuntu and edubuntu stuff, I'm just talking about web stuff :)
<ogra> yep, grokked that now
<willvdl> eek. my connection did a serious Swan Lake on me
<pips1> you keep up your (good) humour though, eh?
<highvoltage> cbx33: is CTM still very dependent on using SSH sessions, or can some of the functionality work on XDMCP too?
<ogra> highvoltage, we wont support xdmcp
<ogra> ever ...
<ogra> (would be silly now that we will get unencrypted ssh connections in feisty if we want to)
<ogra> ssh with encryption=none is exactly as fast as xdmcp ...
<highvoltage> ogra: ooh, that's quite cool
<ogra> cjwatson still has to apply the patch, but he promised sbalneav that we'll have it in feisty ...
<highvoltage> ogra: the encryption slowness was/is a problem for many people
<highvoltage> kewl :)
<ogra> we wont encourage its use and it wont be easy to set up ...
<ogra> but we wont have to maintain two different ltsp variants
<ogra> or even ltspfs variants
<highvoltage> ogra: do you perhaps know hoe unencrypted ssh compares to xdmcp bandwidth-wise?
<ogra> its identical
<ogra> sbalneav knows more about it ... i never used it
* highvoltage taps fingers together like Mr Burns *excellent*
<willvdl> did older ltsp use xdmcp?
<highvoltage> willvdl: the older ltsp.org, yes. edubuntu has always used ssh
<willvdl> gotcha
<willvdl> so when people refer to diskless client networking (sic) using ssh, they are referring to something very similar to ltsp?
<highvoltage> willvdl: XDMCP and ssh -X are two different methods of running graphical applications from a remote server
<highvoltage> willvdl: LTSP has used XDMCP for years, it is quite easy to implement
<highvoltage> willvdl: ubuntu uses SSH since it is more secure, all data sent over the network is encrypted
<highvoltage> willvdl: the downside is that encrypting 20 sessions on a ltsp server gives it a hard performance knock
<highvoltage> willvdl: which is why we stuck with XDMCP in tuXlabs
<willvdl> yip.
<willvdl> btw, I've heard of hard drives coming out with HW layer encryption
<highvoltage> willvdl: but ogra says that when the option is there to disable encryption, ssh -X will then be just as fast as XDMCP
<highvoltage> willvdl: although you'd loose the security, of course
<willvdl> which is fine in a classroom I guess
<highvoltage> willvdl: I'm not *too* bothered about the GUI being sent in clear in a lab, since you can just peek over someones shoulder if you *really* want to see what's going on on their screen
<willvdl> will edubuntu work on a wireless network?
<willvdl> not sure why I don;'t know that
<highvoltage> not currently, but it will probably be possible at some point
<willvdl> hmmmm
<highvoltage> wireless brings lots of problems
<willvdl> yeah. just thinking of negotiating the network booting has my head in a twist
<highvoltage> for example, how would the wireless card know where to boot from, anyone would be able to do an attack by just bringing in another access point and letting the machines boot from that
<willvdl> exactly.
<highvoltage> so you'll need good firmware on the wireless card where you can set an SSID and a WPA key
<highvoltage> either that, or you'll need to emulate a PCI ethernet card and run PXE/etherboot from that, and that card can drive the wireless card
<willvdl> was just about to type that
<willvdl> seems I'm not that far behind after all :)
<highvoltage> or...
<highvoltage> you boot the LTSP chroot from a local flash disk
<highvoltage> and run the session over wlan
<ogra> wireless would require kernel and initramfs on a CD or something
<highvoltage> ogra: snap :)
<ogra> additionally its not easy to get the wpa/wep and the essid stuff in
<willvdl> so then you just hack the flash disk to boot off your own access point...
<ogra> you would need to patch the kernel to accept them as bootoptions
<highvoltage> willvdl: you could do that, kind of, but people would be able to figure out from the config what the MAC address of the AP is, as well as the WEP key, and they could spoof that info
<highvoltage> willvdl: well, and besides the difficult security, wireless doesn't currently provide much in the sense of bandwidth
<sbalneav> Morning all
<willvdl> hmmm
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: have you played with ssh -x without encryption yet?
<willvdl> it's intersting: technically it is feasable, but conceptually it is less so
<willvdl> normally things are the other way round :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: That's what we're running around here now.  I patched ssh to allow the -c none option.
* ogra hopes sbalneav did not play with ssh -x ...
<ogra> rather -X ;)
<highvoltage> indeed :)
<sbalneav> -X ?
<sbalneav> Ah, no, that works fine.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: does it work as nicely as XDMCP?
<sbalneav> It's still slower than xdmcp, but it's nowhere near as bad.  It certainly is usable on my workstations.
<sbalneav> I think the slowness now is merely the added constant context switching between X sending a packet, and then ssh having to process it, and forward.
<sbalneav> Installed edubuntu herd2 last night.  Got bitten by the i82365/pcmcia hang bug
<sbalneav> that took me a while to work around.
<ogra> yeah, seems many people get that
<sbalneav> until I found the boot param hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false
<sbalneav> then everything went fine.
<sbalneav> ltsp chroot failed to build, but I knew that was coming.
<sbalneav> left it updating all the patches when I went to sleep.
<ogra> hmm, it shouldnt ...
<ogra> i fixed the wrong mirror line ...
<ogra> debian introduced that
<sbalneav> Ah, but I downloaded the iso.
<ogra> yeah and i fixed it on the iso ...
<sbalneav> I don't have the rsync thing set up yet.  Have you updated that script of yours?
<ogra> only with a quick fix though ... which i reverted a day after the iso was released
<ogra> weird that you still got that error ...
<ogra> cbx33 reported it as well ..
<sbalneav> Oh, look, there's an update for libsoup
<sbalneav> Mmmmm, soup
<SiCk> im in here ogra :D
<ogra> good ...
<SiCk> I'm not sure i completely understand how to jump this into kiosk mode
<SiCk> even after reading this
<ogra> do the following:
<ogra> export ROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
<ogra> sudo echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /home"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> sudo echo 'rw_dirs="$rw_dirs /var/lib/gdm"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> err, ah, crap ...
<ogra> better:
<ogra> sudo -i
<ogra> echo 'copy_dirs="$copy_dirs /home"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> echo 'rw_dirs="$rw_dirs /var/lib/gdm"' >> $ROOT/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT adduser --disabled-password --gecos ,,, kiosk
<ogra> echo "#!/bin/sh" > $ROOT/home/kiosk/.xsession
<ogra> echo "/usr/bin/firefox --fullscreen" >> $ROOT/home/kiosk/.xsession
<ogra> cp $ROOT/etc/gdm/gdm.conf $ROOT/etc/gdm/gdm-kiosk.conf
<ogra> etc etc ... just copy n paste the lines from the wikipage
<SiCk> where do you pull this from in your head, you're a mad man. haha
<ogra> i dont
<ogra> i have a browser to copy/paste it :P
<SiCk> ahh haha
<ogra> i pulled it from my head when i wrote the wikipage though :)
<SiCk> this is all in the terminal yes?
<SiCk> cause im seeing none of what you wrote there in the wiki.. or am i getting confused for no reason here
<SiCk> ah, wait i didnt see err ah crap better:
<SiCk> haha hold on
<SiCk> still get no such file or directory
<highvoltage> anyone perhaps know how I can pass NFS options when / is mounted on the thin client?
<juliux> hi
<highvoltage> for example, I'd like to do proto=tcp, for example
<highvoltage> hi jules
<juliux> hi highvoltage
<juliux> highvoltage, today we get the first snow:(
<highvoltage> juliux: wow, isn't it a bit late?
<juliux> highvoltage, yes it is very late
<juliux> normaly we get the first snow in november
<highvoltage> it's very hot here right now. you are welcome to through some snow over :)
<juliux> highvoltage, via ship or airplane?
<juliux> ;)
<highvoltage> juliux: just through it very, very far ;)
<juliux> highvoltage, ok
<willvdl> is ubuntuforums.org an "official" ubuntu channel?
<ogra> SiCk, you do all of that on the server
<juliux> willvdl, you can call it offical
<pips1> willvdl: I don't think it is official. it is community managed
<ogra> highvoltage, in pxelinux.cfg/defailt
<ogra> *default
<juliux> willvdl, but canonical is paying the server
<pips1> right
<willvdl> do you reckon I could list the forums as an Edubuntu Community communication channel?
<juliux> willvdl, so it is the most offical forum
<willvdl> there is some good stuff in there...
<pips1> willvdl: nope
<juliux> willvdl, is there an edubuntu subforum? are there edubuntu supporters?
<pips1> willvdl: where do you want to publish that info?
<juliux> willvdl, in germany we have a subforum and supporters;)
<willvdl> pips1, as part of "Getting in touch with Edubuntu Community"
<willvdl> juliux,not really, the forums are not broken into ditro
<willvdl> distro rather
<pips1> for now, it is better to direct new people to the mailing lists
<juliux> willvdl, i think mailinglist or irc is better
<pips1> the new community website will feature a forum specific to edubuntu
<willvdl> agreed. just thinking that we could list the forums as a source of info, even though not official edubuntu channel
<juliux> cu later my battery is empty
<willvdl> ciao
<pips1> you can list it as a resource for technical information on the shared base with ubuntu
<willvdl> pips1, a lot of edubuntu users will end up on ubuntuforums for tech support regardless of the community site
<pips1> yep
<pips1> we want them to go to ubuntuforums for technical stuff
<SiCk> ogra, i tried it, and got on the second line - no such file or directory
<willvdl> cool. I'll put in a reference like that and then we can see what it looks like before publishing
<highvoltage> ogra: so where in that file would I add the NFS option? I understand it's what gets appended to the kernel line, I'm just not sure how to pass the NFS option
<pips1> willvdl: ok
<ogra> SiCk, but you exported the ROOT variable and started after i wrote "better:" above ?
<SiCk> yeah
<SiCk> -bash: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/defaults/ltsp-client-setup: No such file or directory
<highvoltage> SiCk: dtop the s in defaults
<SiCk> wahey
<SiCk> well called
<ogra> oh, wait ... indeed
<ogra> change "defaults" to "default"
<ogra> thanks for finding a typo in the wiki :)
<ogra> highvoltage, the nfs page on teh ltsp wiki has the right line at the bottom
<highvoltage> ogra: ok, I'll look there
<highvoltage> ogra: thanks
<SiCk> next problem... sorry for being a pain
<SiCk> -bash: !/bin/sh": event not found
<SiCk> it was looking so promising there too!
<SiCk> haha
<ogra> but you are root thriough the sudo -i ?
<SiCk> yeah
<SiCk> i'm actually logged in as root at the moment
<SiCk> figured it'd save time
<ogra> on the server ?
<bddebian> Heya
<SiCk> yeah
<ogra> thats not necessary
<ogra> sudo -i is as good and you dont need to make your system insecure through an enabled root account
<SiCk> well its a secure closed network anyway, so we're good at the moment. It's only me using it
<willvdl> and me ;)
<SiCk> gasp
<SiCk> arrest that man!
<ogra> heh
<ogra> SiCk, you dont need all the echo stuff, just look to which file it's added and edit it with nano
<ogra> (or vi)
<SiCk> ogra, apparently i have no /usr/bin/firefox , surely thats not right?
<SiCk> i had a check, and it seems to be missing
<ogra> did you install it ?
<ogra> LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm ....
<ogra> if you are in the chroot
<SiCk> ahh, sorry, missed the line
<SiCk> thanks again :S
<SiCk> ogra: this just totally isnt agreeing with me
<ogra> whats wrong ?
<SiCk> well im sitting in the $ROOT
<SiCk> i run LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm
<SiCk> first of all it did all it needed to do, installed etc
<ogra> did you chroot $ROOT ?
<ogra> else the command needs to be: chroot $ROOT LANG=C apt-get install firefox gdm
<SiCk> yeah, when i do both, it's trying to grab from cdrom + dapper/main xxxxxx
<SiCk> should it not be going to the net?
<SiCk> ill try throwing the edubuntu cd in
<ogra> either that or copy /etc/apt/sources.list to $ROOT/etc/apt/sources.list and run "chroot $ROOT apt-get update"
<pips1> if you installed with a cd, it looks for the cd for packages that exist on the cd. (to save bandwidth). afaik
<SiCk> ah okay
<pips1> but you can change it to download from the www always, if you want to. either do that in synaptic, or change the sources.list manually, if you know what you are doing
<ogra> (not with synaptic ... at least in the client chroot)
<SiCk> right now this is just playing with me, its pretending it cant see /opt/ltsp/i386
<SiCk> restarting the piece of crap.
<SiCk> grr
<pips1> heh
<SiCk> back to Couldn't find package firefox
<SiCk> bahh
<SiCk> i'm totally confused with this... after the restart it was fine, a few commands later and the whole directory listing only in terminal is missing
<SiCk> slowly going insane :)
<willvdl> pips1, have a look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij/ScratchPad up untill the thick red line
<willvdl> still going to add info on the website and wiki site
<willvdl> followed by "how to get involved" => launchpad etc.
<ogra> SiCk, you dont work on the termina, do you ?
<ogra> (all that stuff is done on the server)
<SiCk> no, i'm doing all this on the server
<ogra> ok
<SiCk> it cant find the packages to install them
<ogra> and you copied the sources.list ?
<SiCk> before and after copying the sources
<SiCk> yeah
<ogra> and ran apt-get update in the chroot ?
<ogra> (chroot $ROOT apt-get update)
<SiCk> ah, i'd missed the chroot $ROOT apt get
<SiCk> i was just updating what was already there
<SiCk> weee :) installing.
<SiCk> i'm like a little child at christmas
<SiCk> with a really hard to make toy
<ogra> if you want to do anything in te client environment just prefix it with "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386"
<pips1> willvdl: I read your ScratchPad page, looking good
<SiCk> ah, cool
<SiCk> i'm starting to get the hang of everything.. it just takes time i guess
<willvdl> pips1, thinking now on how to do a "landing page"
<ogra> you can also juat run "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386", that makes you root in the client environment ... do all your changes and hit ctrl-d in the end
<willvdl> www.e.org has links to the various sub-sections: download, community etc
<ogra> s/juat/just/
<pips1> willvdl: I think you should remove Jerome Gotangco and his email address as a personal contact, he is taking a break from edubuntu to focus on work at the moment, afaik
<willvdl> whereas wiki.e.org/EdubuntuWiki would probably do the same
<SiCk> i like it, at least its doing something now! :)
<willvdl> pips1, below the thick red line will go elsewhere and change, yes
<SiCk> thanks again, i know i'm a bit of a pain, but i've got a pain above me too... hah
<SiCk> bibt of pressure
<willvdl> pips1, I'm thinking of using the Edubuntu namespace in the wiki and wondering if its a good idea
<willvdl> i.e. wiki.e.o/Edubuntu is the home
<willvdl> with links to sub pages either like: wiki.e.org/EdubuntuCommunity or wiki.e.org/Edubuntu/Community
<willvdl> which would you prefer?
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> is there any difference in functionality in-between the two?
<pips1> e.g. what if you use search of the wiki?
<willvdl> I'm not sure there is a difference.
<pips1> does it matter if pages are EdubuntuCommunity or Edubuntu/Community ?
<SiCk> ogra: does * Starting Hardware abstraction layer hald usually take over 5 minutes? :s
<willvdl> it's probably more a question of convention
<willvdl> pips1, as far as I know it's just a mod-rewrite thing
<SiCk> oop , spoke to soon, here it goes
<pips1> my questions is: if you search for 'Edubuntu community', will it find both 'EdubuntuCommunity' and 'Edubuntu/Community' regardless?
<ogra> SiCk, nope ... where do you see that ?
<willvdl> it should. I could test that, but it should
<pips1> and what if you search for 'Community', will it find 'EdubuntuCommunity' or only 'Community' ? (I suppose it will find both, but the ranking will be different)
<willvdl> I like the Edubuntu/XXX idea cause then you can easily list sub-pages to a page using macros
<pips1> macros? how do you do that?
<willvdl> check the bottom of https://wiki.edubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam
<pips1> ah, ic
<willvdl> do this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Cleanup?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=edubuntu+community&titlesearch=Titles
<pips1> I see the benefit of that
<willvdl> see the ranking
<pips1> ic
<willvdl> AFAIK sub-pages are the way to go (according to wiki help)
<pips1> my only question/reservation is that our edubuntu-specific pages might get "crowded out" by "ubuntu-specific" pages over time if you search for sub-terms... ?
* pips1 tries to think
<willvdl> also, try https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuComm and see the ranking that comes up
<willvdl> is the same as https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Comm
<SiCk> ogra, do i need to change anything to force the client to boot into kiosk? or will this set it to automatically do it?
<pips1> I mean, since all pages are in one repository, searching for 'community' will bring up pages from ubuntu on top, rather than edubuntu ones, supposedly
<pips1> ?
<ogra> SiCk, the client should automatically boot into a local gdm now
<pips1> the "Existing pages with similar names:" ranking from your EdubuntuComm example is interesting
<ogra> if you have created a user and set it to autologin it should just work
<willvdl> pips1,yeah it is weird
<willvdl> almost like syndicated links :)
<SiCk> trying it now ogra..
<SiCk> wish me luck
<SiCk> haha
<ogra> i do
<pips1> Well, my guess is that all those Kubuntu, Ubuntu "Comm" pages are more referenced internally from other Kubuntu / Ubuntu pages, so they rank higher...
<pips1> that's what I meant by "being crowded out"
<pips1> willvdl: does what I said make sense ?
<willvdl> yeah but I don't think moin searches like google with internal reference ranking
* pips1 does another wiki search test himself
<willvdl> namespace searching like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Comm is one thing
<willvdl> using the search facility is another
<pips1> well, we are trying to cater for non-technologists, right? these people are used to browsing (hierarchical) menus and searching in a simple way
<willvdl> pips1, I honestly think it's the same thing, moin just uses mod-rewrite to change the url sensibly
<pips1> ok
<pips1> go ahead and used the /
<pips1> I like it better too
<willvdl> pips1, my end goal is to make it so the EVERYTHING is easily referenced off a few landing pages :)
<willvdl> so that searching is not needed :)
<willvdl> let them search help.u.com
<willvdl> okie
<pips1> I'm just thinking that we should advise people that they need to include the term "Edubuntu" in their wiki searches on w.e.o... the domain name suggests that you are in the "edubuntu" namespace, while in fact you are not, you are in a shared ubuntu/edubuntu wiki namespace. this is the main confusion.
<willvdl> yip. hoping to include that in that scratchpad page
<pips1> great
<willvdl> you are very correct there
<pips1> browsing in probably indeed the preferred navigation for non-technologists, but google has popularised 'search' trememdously, so even newbies, will try searching if they don't quickly find it through browsing
<pips1> quick question: To create a new (sub)page off '/Edubuntu', do I need to enter 'Edubuntu/Something' to get the empty new page ?
<willvdl> yip
<pips1> yeah, sorry for the silly question, I should have just gone ahead and tried it right away :-)
<willvdl> pips1, searching offers by title or by text
<pips1> yep
<willvdl> by text doesn't matter what the title is
<willvdl> and by title doesn't seem to distinguish between seperate "words" in the wikiname
<willvdl> it's rather interesting and possibly quite clever :P
<pips1> hehe
<willvdl> I just like the formatting in the drupal site...it's neater
<willvdl> colours and all
<willvdl> but hey, it's not about me :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I can't access http://wiki.ltsp.org/ , problem on my side or with the LTSP webserver?
* pips1 learns about the [[Navigation(children,1)] ]  wiki macro
<pips1> highvoltage: can't get through from here either
<SiCk> ogra, you around?
<ogra> SiCk, yep
<SiCk> i tried figuring this one out for myself, but i've had no luck
<SiCk> i'm getting (on the client) Cant open file /usr/share/gdm/themes/Human/Human.xml
<SiCk> i tried going to the gdm-kiosk.conf and changing the default theme to one i know is there
<SiCk> but with no avail
<willvdl> pips1, what do you think a good name for that scratchpad page would be? E/CommunityContact? E/CommunityChannels? E/Community/GettingInTouch?
<ogra> you did run the update-alternatives line from the wiki ?
<SiCk> yep.. though it did show me what the identifiers meant, it didnt as such tell me it was completed.
<pips1> willvdl: surely there is an ubuntu page? what does that one use?
<pips1> sorry I'm a bit busy at work, at the mo
<SiCk> ah an error
<ogra> look where the link in /etc/alternatives in the chroot points to
<SiCk> update-alternatives --install needs <link> <name> <path> <priority>
<willvdl> pips1, well http://www.ubuntu.com/communit doesn't have the detail we do so they jsut link to individual pages under a Help & Information sub-heading.
<willvdl> I could do that but it would be a waste of sub-pages since the information is thin
<SiCk> there are no gdm links in alternatives
<ogra> SiCk, should be gdm-config-derivative
<SiCk> nope, not there
<SiCk> the only thing i can see thats missing from the command is that it's missing a priority maybe
<SiCk> ?
<ogra> LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT update-alternatives --install /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf gdm-config-derivative
<ogra> did you run that ?
<SiCk> yep
<SiCk> i get the same thing
<SiCk> i threw 1 in at the end... seems to have accepted it
<ogra> $ROOT is still set ?
<SiCk> did i do bad things?
<pips1> willvdl: from the above, I like 'E/Community/GettingInTouch' best, but will there be a page at 'E/Community' ?
<ogra> nope, you missed teh linebrak in teh wiki (as i did) try: LC_ALL=C chroot $ROOT update-alternatives --install /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf gdm-config-derivative /etc/gdm/gdm-kiosk.conf
<SiCk> crap.. i gotta run here ogra... work are kicking me out, which isnt a bad thing! early home. haha... i just ran that and im booting the kernel now
<pips1> willvdl: so you might just go for 'E/Community'
<SiCk> thanks for all your help, i'll probably talk to you tomorrow if you're around
<willvdl> pips1, I think so. just a page that shells out links to the code of conduct, contacts, how & where etc
<ogra> SiCk, i'll be around
<SiCk> still starstruck ;) you're awesome! haha
<ogra> as i said we're at a hack sprint ...
<SiCk> ah, so you're all always around haha
<willvdl> pips1, good point. Letme see how many community pages I end up with before giving names
<ogra> well, i should know the software i wrote ;)
<SiCk> haha true!
<SiCk> :)
<pips1> willvdl: good talking to you, I need to go, cu l8r
<willvdl> ciao
<SiCk> new error ugh.. haha.. talk to you tomorrow ogra! bye!
<ogra> ciao
<willvdl> ogra, how long you still in oslo?
<ogra> willvdl, flying out 10 am on sat
<willvdl> sweet. at least home for the weekend.
<willvdl> cheers folks. see you tomorrow
<humbolto> how can I allow certain users to run the users-admin app? I would not want these users to be able to run software updates, ... like they could if they were part of the admin group. I thought about creating a new group and put some lines in the sudoers file to allow the members to run users-admin with gksu. but users-admin is not started with gksu.
<juliux> hi
<Burgwork> humbolto: users-admin runs a backend
<humbolto> Burgwork: which is?
<humbolto> can I put that in the sudoers file?
<Burgwork> I cannot remember exactly what
<Burgwork> trying running users-admin is see what else pops up
<humbolto> Did that. But I don
<humbolto> don't see any other processes started by users-admin
<humbolto> is that a gnome or a ubuntu program?
<dark7> lu all
<humbolto> When I put "xxx ALL=/usr/bin/update-manager" in the sudoers file, I am still not able to run update-manager as user xxx
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! anyone can tell me what is the file /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and what is it for? thank you?
<cbx33> hey guys need to do a nice diagram to show how LTSP works, what package shoudl I use?
<jbrefort> LaserJock, do you know which goffice version will be in feisty?
<LaserJock> at this point, not for sure
<jbrefort> ok
<LaserJock> Feb. 8th is the Upstream Version Freeze
<LaserJock> I think that's the latest it can be updated without an exception request
<jbrefort> so it should be 0.3.5
<LaserJock> yes, we have that right now
<cliebow_> cbx33: stufdent control psnel looks awesome!!
<cbx33> thanks cliebow_
<cbx33> you mean thin client manager?
<cbx33> heheh :p
<cliebow_> yeah. i got pretty close anyway..i added a couple buttons in my teachertool  to hook to x11vnc  on clients
<cliebow_> i never saw much performance hit..but ogra said it was a problem
<cbx33> hehe
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> bbiabn
<cbx33> hy LaserJock
<cbx33> howz it going
<LaserJock> well, pretty good
<Burgwork> hey cbx33, LaserJock
<Burgwork> cbx33: can your tcm thingy be used on non-thin client
<Burgwork> ?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> well the vnc bit can
<cbx33> not sure how you'd find out what users were logged on
<cbx33> it would require modification
<Burgwork> ah, for that you need to the new ConsoleKit
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> looks like we could get them to work together
<cbx33> all it needs is the username, process id of their session, which could be garbage in your case
<cbx33> and the ip
<cbx33> that's all that's passed
<willvdl_> LaserJock, hey
<willvdl_> Burgwork, too
<LaserJock> willvdl!
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<Burgwork> hey willvdl
<Burgwork> cbx33: that is exactly what consolekit gives you. As a plus it gives where the user is connected to
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> the code will be available soon for tcm
<Burgwork> well, that means you might want to rebrand again
<Burgwork> something like Desktop Manager or something
<cbx33> heheh
<stelis> An Edubuntu HandBook query...
<stelis> I've updated SVN and the directory seem to have been cleared
<LaserJock> stelis: what do you mean by cleared and where are you geting the svn?
<stelis> There was a skeleton guide with quite a few placeholder files
<Burgwork> which svn repo are you pulling from? the official one?
<LaserJock> the handbook is currently at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<LaserJock> and using the doc team svn repo
<cbx33> nn all
<stelis> Yes, the official one...basically I set it up before Christmas and just updated it
<stelis> LaserJock: That's it
<stelis> The SVN copy I have is missing printing, for ex.
<LaserJock> stelis: what does grep url .svn/entries give you
<stelis>  url="https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/edubuntu/handbook/C"
<LaserJock> ok yeah
<LaserJock> that's the right repo
<stelis> Hmm. I'll try flushing it and doing a fresh checkout
<stelis> Basically I wrote up a couple of draft sections
<stelis> And have done a couple more
<stelis> And wanted to resync it and submit my bits for review
<stelis> OK. The fresh SVN checkout just completed (slow connection), and it's the same as before...
<willvdl_> <Burgwork> well, that means you might want to rebrand again
<willvdl_> :)
<willvdl_> stelis, what sections are you looking to write?
<stelis> http://www.elsn.org/downloads/edubuntu/drafts/
<stelis> I submitted the look and feel to Mario Danic a while ago
<stelis> The installation and security sections I wrote more recently
<willvdl_> sweet. excellent
<willvdl_> I'm toying with the idea of a seperate Install Guide (even though I know TBH moves away from "guides")
<stelis> As an experiment, I always wanted to try building an installation guide as screenshots with minimal text
<stelis> I have a suspicion that longs docs don't get read :)
<stelis> Especially by people who want a "quick start" to kick the tires
<stelis> I wrote a distro Install Guide a while ago, and it just kept growing...
<stelis> Just to confirm: am I looking in the right place for the latest?
<stelis> Or has this doc essentially been obsoleted by something else?
#edubuntu 2007-01-25
<willvdl_> stelis, I'm not sure to be honset
<willvdl_> familiar with http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted?
<willvdl_> It has an install guide which really shouldn't live in the drupal www site anymore
<stelis> I hadn't seen that before - it's kind of what I was thinking of
<willvdl> hmm, my ghost is following me
<stelis> I'm seeing double :)
<willvdl> stelis, I guess an installation guide would go in the handbook
<willvdl> but I can't help thinking it would have value as a seperate doc as well. Should ask the doc team I guess, I'm sure this debate has been round before
<willvdl> but then the handbook could guide through different types of installations for different network types
<stelis> I don't know, but I'd like to be able to point people at something that can get them started
<stelis> I've run across a couple of people on forums with a small room of computers that they'd like to get going
<stelis> And not sure where to start with Edubuntu
<stelis> Which is a shame, because it's really simple for that kind of setup...
<willvdl> stelis, any help you can give in docs is greatly appreciated
<stelis> I'm tempted to try something in the style of the page you linked to - very concise, with pictures.
<stelis> But not tonight :). Cheers.
<willvdl> ciao
<macreds> anyone out there instal edubuntu on an iMac
<juliux> morning
<Burgundavia> morning juliux
<Burgundavia> hey RichEd
<RichEd> hey guys
<juliux> hi Burgundavia RichEd
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday
<RichEd> is Oz as hot as SA today ... we're looking at 38C for Cape Town ... much hotter than we normally expect
<Kamping_Kaiser> its hot, but im not sure how hot. its hot enough for me to have doors+windows open and still be hot
* Kamping_Kaiser checks website for weather
<ajmitch> hi
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> Mount Barker: Min 12    Max 29 <- hot enough :/
<cbx33> hey ajmitch
<juliux> hi ogra
<ogra> hi
<juliux> ogra, is there a way to download the edubuntu dailies with jigdo?
<juliux> they cut down my internet traffic to 1,5gb per week
<SiCk> morning all
<SiCk> the annoyance has arrived
<cbx33> oh no
<cbx33> hehe
<SiCk> :D haha
<cbx33> hi SiCk
<SiCk> hey cbx33
<SiCk> :)
<SiCk> more problems today.. but at the moment i'm trying to work this one out for myself now that i've had a bit of experience
<SiCk> thanks to ogra's wonderful help
<cbx33> he is a great help
<cbx33> hi nixternal
<SiCk> is #!/bin/sh a valid syntax in an xsession file?
<SiCk> I'm in work... on my birthday... :(
<SiCk> *cry*
<Anson> Hey all
<Anson> any one know why edubuntu wont install on my laptop? for some reason, when ever i choose install {this is when my cd boots up } it'll load a thing or 2 then just sit at a black screen doing jack all???
<Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, whats the spec of the laptop?
<cbx33> SiCk: awwww
<Anson> amd turion 64 ml-37 2.0 ghz
<Anson> 100gb hd
<Anson> 1gb ddr ram
<Anson> ati radeon xpress 200m
<SiCk> i know cbx33 :( i got tomorrow off though, so heavy drinking tonight is in order
<SiCk> haha
<cbx33> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, are you trying to use 6.10? 32 or 64 bit version?
<Anson> 64 bit
<Anson> and 6.06
<Kamping_Kaiser> could you get a 6.10, or would that be impractical?
<Anson> i could get it yea
<Kamping_Kaiser> could you try that please? 32 or 64 bit version
<Anson> k :P
<Anson> aw man it's gonna take me 7 hours =[
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<Anson> so was there a problem with 6.06 or anything?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Anson, i dont have a 64bit computer, so i dont have much idea of what could be wrong, i do know that 610 worked better then 6.06 for some other 64bit systems
<Kamping_Kaiser> hoping it works for you....
<Kamping_Kaiser> s/i dont have a 64 bit computer/ i dont have a 64 bit x86 computer/g
<Anson> i hope so too =[ i like edubuntu, i have it on my p4
* Kamping_Kaiser too :)
<Anson> :)
<Anson> well thanks, i'm head to bed lmao, not gonna wait 7 hours
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol. night.
* SiCk cries more
<SiCk> its my birthday, im in work, AND i have to copy roaming profiles from one server to another, then back later because someone wants to reformat the server.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<juliux> did somebody test feisty installation in vmwareserver?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> failed
<cbx33> well ltsp did
<juliux> cbx33, here it hangsup after the keyboard detection
<cbx33> oh yes
<cbx33> sorry there is a fix for that
<cbx33> um
<cbx33> when installing
<cbx33> press F^
<cbx33> F6
<cbx33> and add....
<cbx33> hwdetect/start_pcmcia=false
<cbx33> i think
<cbx33> maybe hw-detect
<cbx33> search LP there is a bug report
<juliux> cbx33, you are my hero;)
<SiCk> aaaaaaah :D
<SiCk> good old batch file saves the tedious movement of roaming profiles
<SiCk> i have about 5 dameware and 2 vnc clients open... surely that cant be good for the network
<cbx33> juliux: I was tung by that
<olymk2> hi, i setup edubuntu during lunch time yesterday to trial at a primary school, it worked fine but i hit one annoyance
<olymk2> and thats with firefox if you login to to more than one computer with the same user
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> you can't
<olymk2> it will not let you launch firefox
<olymk2> oh no way around this ?
<cbx33> olymk2: you need to use seperate users
<cbx33> not at the moment
<cbx33> the same with openoffice iirc
<olymk2> yeah but we are talking primary school level
<juliux> olymk2, that is a bug in gnome, so use an extra user for every thinclient
<cbx33> juliux: ++
<juliux> olymk2, the icons are also broken
<cbx33> just have a machine name client and a password of the same name
<SiCk> ididnt know that now... crap that's going to be annoying
<olymk2> they can not remember there usernames and passwords
<cbx33> are they needing to save data?
<olymk2> so we wanted to set it so that all machines auto logged on with user student
<SiCk> i'm gonna be needing firefox on about 40 pc's haha
<cbx33> SiCk: you can run it on 40 machines
<cbx33> just not with the same user
<olymk2> yes they will save
<cbx33> have a user for each machine
<olymk2> but using same location
<cbx33> olymk2: then that's fine
<olymk2> teachers can all have seperate accounts
<SiCk> true, i can just copy the user account settings
<cbx33> do as said above
<cbx33> I know it is annoying
<cbx33> what about using epiphany...
<cbx33> i don't know if that has the same bug
<olymk2> well could use koffice and konquerer
<cbx33> anyway the better way is to have seperate users
<olymk2> or yeah epiphany
<cbx33> then student control panel will work nicely too
<olymk2> but i think thats based on firefox
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> yes
<olymk2> yeah i know they will not like that at the school
<SiCk> cbx33 where is the student control panel? is that an ltsp management console as such?
<olymk2> its common most primary schools i goto have a single logon
<olymk2> and no passwords
<cbx33> SiCk: yes
<SiCk> well olymk2 it doesnt matter if you have all these accounts, as you can have 1 for each pc
<cbx33> SiCk: it's been much improved in the latest release in april
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
<cbx33> see the screenshots ;)
<SiCk> even if you set up 100 student accounts. such as student1 pass: student1
<SiCk> oooh
<SiCk> cbx33: nice!
<cbx33> yeh
<olymk2> yeah guess that will have todo
<cbx33> tiled vnc screenshots too
<SiCk> how do i get it on my release at the moment?
<cbx33> olymk2: I hope it get's fixed too believe me
<olymk2> i go out to primary schools and help fix there computer systems
<cbx33> SiCk: what are you running?
<olymk2> are there plans to fix it for feisty ?
<SiCk> edubuntu dapper , latest
<cbx33> SiCk: it is in there...but limited functionality
<olymk2> or is it a firefox / openoffice specific
<cbx33> SiCk: you wanna upgrade to edgy :p
<SiCk> is there anything that takes its place? anything that can manage i'd like to have even
<cbx33> I fixed up a lot in there
<cbx33> but feisty will be awesome
<SiCk> ahh, yeah ogra was saying i should up to edgy yesterday
<cbx33> I don;t think there is a reason why we can't back port it....
<cbx33> yeh edgy has a lot of functionality
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=133
<SiCk> so, cbx, is there an apt-get for the management console?
<SiCk> sorry for being so slow. haha
<cbx33> in dapper it's very low functionality
<cbx33> apt-get install student-control-panel
<cbx33> i think
<SiCk> anything to manage to be honest.. haha
<SiCk> its having none of that
<SiCk> haha
<cbx33> apt-get install studentcontrolpanel
<SiCk> i dont know why im even installing this, my client isnt even working at the moment
<cbx33> do you have universe enabled?
<SiCk> no, i'll do that now..
<cbx33> that's y
<SiCk> cbx33, it escapes me, how do i get apt to re-index the sources.list file again?
<olymk2> hum come to think of it would running firefox with -p default work ?
<cbx33> apt-get update
<olymk2> i seem to remember doing something like that with ssh to get more than one instance
<cbx33> no idea
<SiCk> cbx33, any idea why after doing the kiosk setup here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins , i'm not able to boot my client?
<SiCk> i didnt do the plugin creation, just implemented it for the client by default
<SiCk> and well... it does boot, but x has problems
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<cbx33> I've never done that
<cbx33> try asking in #ltsp
<SiCk> ogra ? :)
<SiCk> trying to get away from me eh
<SiCk> bwahaha
<SiCk> :(
<SiCk> haha
* ogra kicks the hotel network
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey :)
<bddebian> Hi Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hows it going mate?
* Kamping_Kaiser debates burning off some K14 cds
<nixternal> boo
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi nixternal :)
<nixternal> hiya Kamping_Kaiser!
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday :)
<cbx33> hey everyone
<nixternal> hiya cbx33!
<nixternal> argh, I am to tired for the uni this morning
<nixternal> oh no, my life is over! YouTube is dead!
<juliux> nixternal, youtube is working here
<nixternal> not here. I can't get my dose of funny videos before class
<nixternal> I am going to cry :)
<nixternal> oh wait, I already am
<nixternal> oh juliux btw, email nixternal@ubuntu.com so I can give you my address and hook up the paypal info as well. I am getting ready to goto school, so this way hopefully I won't forget once again :)
<nixternal> gotta take the pup out..brb
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if staying up until $earlyAm is a good move. just to say gday to one person
<juliux> nixternal, i will email you the paypal account name
<froud> willvdl__:  ping
<juliux> nixternal, check your mailbox
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> sbalneav: HEY
<sbalneav> Hey hey
<RichEd> sbalneav: speak of the devil :)
<RichEd> hey cbx33
<SiCk> ping
* sbalneav appears in a puff of brimstone
<sbalneav> Whaaaaasuuuuuup?
<Kamping_Kaiser> me
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all!
* Kamping_Kaiser crashes
<hmd64> hi
<RichEd> hey SimonAnibal ... been missing you on my travels !
<SimonAnibal> RichEd: Hey Richard, how're things going?
<RichEd> well thanks ... how's 2007 for you
<SimonAnibal> So far, not too bad
<hmd64> since edubuntu use kedu packages and most educational appz are for kde
<hmd64> why not using kde instead of gnome
<hmd64> ?
<ogra> because of the backing of a big desktop development team for integration  ... kdeedu is only a very small portion
<ogra> the ubuntu distro team has 18 people working in it ... one does KDE and one does edubuntu
<ogra> the rest does gnome/kernel/X etc ...
<ogra> it's a matter of manpower
<ogra> its no problem to install kubuntu-desktop though ...
<ogra> (on top of edubuntu)
<ogra> even though you might miss integration since KDE is behind on that and relies on community contributions
<hmd64> I think that KDE is easier
<ogra> i dont, but thats a totally opersonal preference and had nothing to do with the decision to take gnome
<hmd64> many other 'edu distros' are using it
<ogra> we dont ...
<ogra> you are free to make kedubuntu ... we'd appreciate that :)
<SiCk> ogra can i steal your knowledgeable brain for a wee bit?
<SiCk> i tried all day on my own and go nowhere! haha
<hmd64> well, if I made it, I think it won't be official and won't get support from ubuntu
<ogra> xubuntu isnt official and doesnt get suport from ubuntu, but still has a huge userbase
<ogra> SiCk, seems i dont get to work today anyway, shoot
<SiCk> dont worry about it if you're busy mate, i can steal you another time :P
<hmd64> I don't have enough diskspace to do a remastering
<hmd64> is it possible to add stuff directly to squashfs live cd?
<ogra> there are remastering docs on the wiki somewhere ...
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, did you receive my mail message with the help request?
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, which one ? i usually point people to edubuntu-users since i travel a lot and am offline more than online recently
<ogra> ah, i see it
<paolob-parroquia> I'm wondering if it could depend on an upgrade of some package...
<ogra> try the fix at the bottom of the page: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/NFS
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
(ogra/#edubuntu) nolock and ro are set anyway
(ogra/#edubuntu) just append them with a space
(ogra/#edubuntu) NFSOPTS="-o wsize=2048,rsize=2048"
<ogra> you can play with the values ...
<ogra> i.e. make it 1024 or 4096
<paolob-parroquia> should I restart some service or not?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> just reboot a client
<paolob-parroquia> nothing new with 2048...
<paolob-parroquia> nor with 1024...
<paolob-parroquia> nor with 4096
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, I restarted nfs-common and nfs-kernel-server, and I could have the three nearest clients boot up...
<highvoltage> 4\\
<juliux> hi highvoltage
<torrr> I want to choose a distro for "TerminalServer" with linux,I am wondering if ubuntu-desktop would be a good choice
<torrr> I am know how to make Gentoo be a terminalServer, since I tested it in VMWare, I've just been told by CrossOver Office, that they support ubuntu better
<torrr> and I have been told that Gentoo is good for servers, and now I wonder if ubuntu-desktop would perform well in a multi-user environment, compared to other distro's
<LaserJock> torrr: well, Edubuntu has LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) built in
<willvdl> torrr, Ubuntu with LTSP or Edubuntu is probably exactly what you are looking for.
<torrr> what is LTSP?
<torrr> I'll google a bit
<LaserJock> www.ltsp.org I believe
<torrr> btw how is it performace wise? (responsive for users?)
<LaserJock> it depends on what kind of hardware you have for the server and how fast the network is
<willvdl> torrr, I know of people that use it in networks of up to 40 or 50 clients
<willvdl> It also depends on what you do with your network
<torrr> I have a dual-core P4 +2GB RAM. I ahve about 15 users
<torrr> mainly web browsing
<torrr> I see the client is the thin-client that boots by network
<torrr> is there an installable client for windows/MacOS?
<LaserJock> it doesn't use an OS
<LaserJock> the thin client actually doesn't need a hard drive
<torrr> Well, the PCs that will use it needs a client  app, because they already have Windows/Mac and software installed on them
<LaserJock> ok, so you just need single apps going across
<LaserJock> with LTSP they could actually run Ubuntu from the client
<torrr> Xserver
<torrr> I have used Xservers in my testings. Only problem is session persistance
<LaserJock> torrr: so you are looking for an X server for Windows/OS X?
<LaserJock> for OS X it's not really a big deal since it's unix based
<LaserJock> you can do X forwarding
<torrr> I have found Xming, which is good as long as the pc don't go to standby
<LaserJock> well, the problem is that when you go on stabdby or hibernate you lose your network connection
<torrr> yes
<LaserJock> virtually any program would have a problem with that I would think
<LaserJock> it has to reconnect
<LaserJock> VNC would get you a desktop that you could reconnect too
<torrr> windows terminal server automatically reconnect
<torrr> VNC use too much CPU, I don't think it would support 15 users
<torrr> I have maxed out a 2.4Ghz celeron with just 2 users on XP with tightVNC
<LaserJock> hmm
<torrr> well, they were watching videos though...
<torrr> (security camera)
<LaserJock> ouch, yeah that's a CPU sucker
<torrr> yea, it needs to redo all the screen
<LaserJock> well, I'm not really sure if it's a server or client thing that you would need
<LaserJock> I honestly don't know
<LaserJock> I generally don't worry about persistence
<LaserJock> and all I've done is just me connecting to a server, not 15
<torrr> I am open for segestions, but currently I am wondering if my server OS should be gentoo, or ubuntu or something else
<LaserJock> well, I pretty certain that if Gentoo can do it Ubuntu probably can too
<LaserJock> it's a matter of finding the right app
<LaserJock> sorry I'm not more helpful :/
<torrr> :)
<n2diy> Take a look at Freenx.
<torrr> it's ok, I think not many people are into it, its amasing that Xservers these days don't reconnect
<willvdl> torrr, the choice between Gentoo and Ubuntu (or any of the others) is going to be based on how you prefer to manage your packages
<torrr> ah
<torrr> willvdl: and can you tell me a bit how it is in ubuntu?
<torrr> willvdl: in gentoo that I have just tried, everything is 'emerge packageName' and then it downloads it and compiles it which can take hours for some app e.g firefox (what a nightmare)
<torrr> willvdl: but on the up side there is always the source there, and the people on the gentoo IRC seem really knowledgeable and help quickly
<willvdl> torrr, well that is the big difference
<willvdl> some people prefer the idea of building packages from source on their systems
<willvdl> if you have the time for it. It is more complex and time consuming
<willvdl> the .deb system is pretty powerful though. It handles dependancies really well
<LaserJock> torrr: I used Gentoo for over 2 years before I came to Ubuntu
<LaserJock> torrr: they are both good distros, but if you want to get apps fast definately go with Ubuntu ;-)
<willvdl> yeah, it's a personal preference.
<willvdl> on the package side at least
<torrr> LaserJock: willvdl: I definitly was upset when it took so much time to install an app in gentoo... But on the other hand I know to program so I can read source, and I think that if it will be readyly available in a way that I can tweek it, then maybe I will, and that is an other thing. Though I didn't understand yet if Gentoo will let me touch the sources and compile my own modified version...
<LaserJock> you can tweak in Gentoo relatively easily
<LaserJock> but Ubuntu has source packages for all it's apps too
<willvdl> true
<LaserJock> I find it nicer because I can get up and running really fast
<LaserJock> and it's usable
<LaserJock> *then* tweak stuff
<LaserJock> if needed
<LaserJock> with gentoo if you need to tweak some little program but you have a KDE update it takes forever
<willvdl> torrr, plus, if you're running edubuntu, say, for the terminal environment then it could make sense to use ubuntu servers on other machines on the network. It just makes managing the whole setup a bit easier
<torrr> I also once had mandrake, and it didn't even let me to compile a new kernel that I have downloaded, I had to wait for that kernel to be in the mandrake own site or something like that
<torrr> willvdl: from what I undersod these terminal are real terminals, not client apps that work under an OS, the only way I could use these is by a VMWare or something like this
<willvdl> torrr, I'm not sure if I understand you correctly :)
<willvdl> are you asking about how the LTSP environment works?
<torrr> yes LTSP
<torrr> from what I have understood
<torrr> the workstations boot from network
<torrr> or something else
<willvdl> well, the terminals run off the server. They (can) boot over the network
<torrr> but they do boot
<willvdl> they need to run a kernel image yes
<torrr> and I didn't see client for windows
<torrr> in the download section
<LaserJock> there is no "client"
<macreds> Has anyone installed the edubuntu workstation on an  G3 iMac? Mine is very slow.
<LaserJock> torrr: nothing is really run on the client machine (it doesn't even need a hard drive)
<LaserJock> torrr: everything is run on the server, just forwarded to the client machine over the network
<willvdl> torrr, the terminal is "dumb". All processing happens on the server.
<torrr> so If I want to use these workstations under a windows machine I can't
<LaserJock> it has nothing to do with Windows
<willvdl> macreds, I haven't but what version are you running?
<LaserJock> nothing is run in windows
<macreds> edubuntu 6.10
<willvdl> macreds, you could try running an xfce desktop instead if things are too slow
<willvdl> I've run dapper edubuntu workstation on a low end P3 with no problems in speed
<macreds> is xfce a selection I can choose from the install disk
<LaserJock> macreds: no but you can install it from Edubuntu
<willvdl> macreds, I think there is a spec in the loop for that in the future
<LaserJock> you could install the xubuntu-desktop package
<willvdl> torrr, one way to set things up is to have a machine with a hard-drive with windows on it. You could boot into windows or you could boot off the network.
<macreds> do you mean install from the edubuntu disk I burned from their image I downloaded or is there a separate download for that?
<LaserJock> macreds: does it have an internet connection?
<macreds> yes
<torrr> take a look at xming screenshot http://www.straightrunning.com/Xming/Captures/Xming.png
<LaserJock> It'll grab it from the net
<torrr> how does this workstation handle it if someone pulls out its network cable? (crash/freese and resume once cable is reinserted?)
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure how it behaves exactly
<torrr> (where resume means continuing from the same place you were when the crash happend)
<willvdl> LaserJock, well, it's like removing the hard-drive isn't it?
<LaserJock> I don't think it likes it's cable being unplugged
<torrr> (replace crash with network gone)
<LaserJock> willvdl: but different
<LaserJock> torrr: the only way I can see to do it is via something like VNC
<willvdl> I think it will stay alive as long as it is trying to "retry" the network
<torrr> There is NX too
<sbalneav> If it's for a "short time" i.e. below the tcp timeout threshold, it will "come back", if it's for longer (i.e. 15-20 seconds or more), it'll usually hang up.
<LaserJock> same thing basically
<sbalneav> There is no session management in X
<willvdl> sbalneav, is that something that could appear in the near future?
<torrr> sbalneav: and in LTSP is there no session management either?
<sbalneav> I don't think the xorg folks have any immediate plans for it.
<sbalneav> No, we just run xorg.  You'd need some kind of local proxy.
<LaserJock> torrr: but you want to still run Windows/OSX though, right? you just want certain apps from Linux
<torrr> sbalneav: you mean that the workstation machine runs its own Xserver?
<sbalneav> Correct.
<sbalneav> The workstation runs it's own X server, and remote programs simply communicate via the X protocol over the wire.
<torrr> sbalneav: ah then the same problems that I have with Xming will happen.  Just that one can use old hardware
<sbalneav> Fundamentally, X doesn't support sessions.
<torrr> sbalneav: I have found it hard to believe, but apparently it is still true.
<macreds> LaserJock: I was interested in edubuntu because I'm a computer teacher at an elementary school I assume Xubuntu wouldn't have all the educational tools.
<sbalneav> Quite frankly, the places where sessions have been required haven't been the places where X has been traditionally deployed.
<LaserJock> macreds: well, you can install edubuntu then install the xubuntu desktop on top of it
<sbalneav> So, there hasn't been much call for sessions within X until the last 2 years or so.
<LaserJock> it would involve more disk space because you would also have the ubuntu desktop
<sbalneav> You have to remember that X is a 25 year old protocol :)
<macreds> Laserjock: would that slow things down more? I'm not sure how that would work.
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> do you have Edubuntu already installed?
<torrr> sbalneav: what are you talking about?(rehtorical) I have been learning in a unix environment in the university and all the time apps were disapearing misteriously due to network gliches... I have been testiing the W2K3 trial now for half a year, and I enjoy very much to leave a session open and come to it after a few days and find it right where I have left it. I am sure this would be very useful in an X environment too.
<macreds> yes it is already installed
<LaserJock> macreds: then you'll just be install some addition software
<LaserJock> macreds: you'll have both the desktop environment from Ubuntu (Gnome) and from Xubuntu (Xfce4)
<macreds> so xubuntu on top of that should clean some things up and improve speed?
<LaserJock> macreds: what people actually run is what will determine the speed
<LaserJock> well, it won't clean things up
<LaserJock> it's just "lighter" software
<LaserJock> so it should run better on your machine
<macreds> I see, I'll try it. thanks for input
<LaserJock> np
<sbalneav> torrr: Traditionally, X has been the providence of high-end fixed graphical networks.  With the increased popularity of Linux in the last 3 years or so, it's now begginning to find itself in places where Sessions would be useful.  But traditionally, if you were a CAD designer with a 15,000 workstation, you weren't really worried about sessions.
<torrr> sbalneav: wow 15,000 workstation...
<sbalneav> The source code for xorg's out there, it will just take someone who wants/is interested in sessions enough to code it up.
<willvdl> macreds, xfce requires less "Resources" as such. It's not as graphically intensive as gnome
<torrr> sbalneav: well I kind of belive it, since back then in the U they had 50 stations on something less powerful than pentium 1
<willvdl> I think sbalneav meant $15000?
<sbalneav> Other solutions, like Freenx, or vnc are "smart proxys" for the X server, that manage the session on top of X
<sbalneav> willvdl, yes, sorry forgot the $
<willvdl> 15000 workstation network is not something I want to manage :)
<torrr> I have tried NX, but it was less responsive then local Xserver
<sbalneav> Ford motor company manages about 45,000 worldwide :)
<torrr> on the other hand
<sbalneav> Sure, NX will be less responsive, because it's having to proxy the entire X protocol.
<willvdl> sbalneav, was thinking more along the lines of 15000 terminals on a server :P
<torrr> I have a really tight test setup now where the linux runs on VMWare, and I have only 512MB RAM here
<sbalneav> We talked to Keith Packard at the last Ubuntu devel conference about persistent sessions.  He seemed to think it "wouldn't be that hard", but didn't actually offer to do the work either :)
<torrr> sbalneav: I have been naging people to just try to understand if it exist or not and why, and from what I have gathered Xlib don't know to reconnect
<torrr> sbalneav: and the xclient apps don't know the state of the server
<sbalneav> Correct.
<torrr> sbalneav: so I think for reconnecting after a network glich a 2 network relays at the host and client would help
<torrr> sbalneav: since the xserver and xclient will not loose connection, and they will reconnect themselves, and not report problems to the xclient and the xserver so they will think that everything is fine
<torrr> they=relays
<torrr> in they will recnnect
<torrr> I use to many they
<torrr> rephrase
<Crazytales2> !frostwire
<ubotu> frostwire is a totally open source version of Limewire.  For installation help, please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FrostWire
<torrr> sbalneav: since the xserver and xclient will not loose connection, and the relays will reconnect themselves, and not report problems to the xclient and the xserver so the xclient and xserver will think that everything is fine
<sbalneav> Sure.  Now you just need to code it up.
<willvdl> :)
<torrr> sbalneav: I might just do it
<sbalneav> Keep us posted!
<torrr> sbalneav: but still it will not help to open the session from an other workstation
<torrr> sbalneav: but there is something called xmove which I have found, and this can move windows from one workstation to the other
<torrr> sbalneav: only thing is that before it does, it tries to contact the real xserver, and if it is not there then xmove hangs
<torrr> not there or not responding
<willvdl> torrr, what exactly are you trying to do? I'm trying to figure out what sort of network you want to set up?
<torrr> but there is a source for that and I have looked into it and found where it calls the Xserver, maybe I can modify it to forget about the old xserver if it died
<torrr> willvdl: I want the users at the business to use the server for browsing instead of their own computers, since it will be more safe
<willvdl> how so? Will a secure proxy not be sufficient?
<torrr> willvdl: basicaly windows TS can do it, but their trial server network get disconnected all the time, and they need to reboot it since I am not there all the time
<torrr> willvdl: I don't know
<torrr> willvdl: do you know some secure proxy?
<willvdl> Is security the only consideration?
<torrr> yes
<willvdl> hmmm, I'm not really a security expert (or a sys-admin for that matter) but I imagine with a decent firewall, ssh connections, strong authentication and proper logging...
<willvdl> of course, a real bonus would be to move the whole business over to linux desktops :)
<torrr> yes that is something I am looking forward too. I love to hate MS
<torrr> I am gona cry, but my laptop has XP, and I feel like my hands are tied
<torrr> and I don't replace it because of drivers and a special app that parks the disk when it feels violent movement
<torrr> but now when I saw Xming, maybe I will use coLinox
<torrr> I'll probalby have to buy more RAM and disk though
* torrr hungry
<torrr> I go to eat
<torrr> bye for now willvdl
<sbalneav> Hmmm, Wonder what I should cook tonight.
<willvdl> ciao
<sbalneav> Chicken Cordon Bleu maybe.
<willvdl> tofu burger?
<torrr> I have bought cow ribs yesterday
<willvdl> chickpea salad?
<torrr> I think I am going to roast it now
<sbalneav> Chickpea salad's nice.
<torrr> ciao
<willvdl> had a chickpea burger the other day. actually very very nice
* willvdl is not a vegetarian. He kills animals on a semi-regular basis
<sbalneav> I make Hummous fairly regularly.
<willvdl> spicy hummous?
<willvdl> with lots of garlic...
<sbalneav> LOTS of garlic
<willvdl> is there any other kind of Hummous?
<sbalneav> Garlic is to cooking what insanity is to art.
<sbalneav> Just adds that special "something"
<willvdl> You cannot trust anybody who does not eat garlic, drink coffee or spill red wine
<sbalneav> I'm eminently trustable, then.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I love garlic, don't drink coffee or wine
<LaserJock> I'm a loser :/
<sbalneav> Well, ruddy well get busy then.
<sbalneav> Make a stop by Starbucks and the Liquor Commission on the way home.
<sbalneav> Look for my Family's lable.
<sbalneav> Balnaves of Coonawara
<sbalneav> http://www.balnaves.com.au/
<LaserJock> hah
<sbalneav> They're related to me, distantly.
<ajmitch> LaserJock: oh I'll have to come & visit you
<sbalneav> Knowing you, though, you'll probably stop at Subway on the way home.
<sbalneav> OH SNAP!
<sbalneav> :)
<ajmitch> sbalneav: how could you suggest starbucks?
<willvdl> LaserJock, not a loser, just can't be trusted :)
<sbalneav> Only coffee shop you guys have down in the states anymore, isn't it? :)
* ajmitch is not in the states, thankfully :)
<ajmitch> though there is a starbucks within about 3 minutes walk from here
<sbalneav> Although, I hear the Canadian infiltration of the states continues apace, and we've managed to export a few Tim Horton's down there :)
<willvdl> We have Vida e Cafe. Brazilian coffee chain store wholly owned by non-brazilians, run by Nigerians and drunk mainly by me
<sbalneav> LaserJock: So, you're not going to be able to make it to Spain? Sangria's a great way to drink red wine! :)
<willvdl> and to learn how to spill it
<sbalneav> After your third pitcher of Sangria, spilling it won't be too difficult :)
<sbalneav> He's ignoring me now :)
<willvdl> sblneav, you in Canada?
<sbalneav> Yeppers.
<sbalneav> Winnipeg, Manitoba.
<sbalneav> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=83+alburg+drive+winnipeg&ie=UTF8&z=15&om=1&iwloc=addr
<willvdl> Australia Australia Australia is a long way away
<sbalneav> That's where to send the Missile :)
<willvdl> Can someone familiar with Launchpad have a proof-read of https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Launchpad/ProjectsAndProducts for me?
<willvdl> sbalneav, the Garlic Bomb
<willvdl> Tomorrow night is the Garlic Chicken spectacle!
<willvdl> Take one chicken, place in cast-iron pot with bit of white wine, 'erbs and water
<willvdl> then add seven to ten heads of garlic and roast...
<willvdl> throw away the chicken (it's only for flavouring) and squeeze the garlic like toothpaste onto bread.
<sbalneav> Well, time for home.
<sbalneav> I'll be on tonight.
<sbalneav> ciao, all
<drx0drx0> Does anyone know how to fix "Error occurred while installing GRUB" during install?
#edubuntu 2007-01-26
<cliebow_> moquist: ping
<cliebow_> anyone up on ltsp?
<cliebow_> i have a 4.1 kernel and chroot works fine..switch to the ltsp5 kernel and nfs wont mount the chroot
* SkirK_WorKSpace va a ninna...
* SkirK_WorKSpace lol
* SkirK_WorKSpace Go to Sleep
<torrr> is ltsp a kernel? I thougght it was a package, no?
<LaserJock> LTSP has a kernel that the thin client runs
<jbrefort> k jean
<jbrefort> sorry, wrong channel
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> just a quick question
<cbx33> do you want an actual deb to look at for sunday?
<juliux> i have a question about the dhcpd.conf is the next-server the nfs server or the tftp server?
<ogra> cbx33, a source package would be fine
<ogra> juliux, tftp
<cbx33> but a package none the less
<juliux> ogra, thxs
<cbx33> ok working on it now
<cbx33> gonna take me a little while
<cbx33> as I've never split a package into two binary pacakges before
<cbx33> what was the one you did
<cbx33> ltsp something
<cbx33> had server and client didn;t it
<cbx33> found it
<cbx33> ogra: last question...am I pacakging as student control panel or thin client manager?
<cbx33> what version number should I use?
<ogra> you package thin-client-manager and add Conflicts:, Replaces:, Provides: student-control-panel
<ogra> raise the s-c-p version by one for now ... if its done we'll call it 1.0
<ogra> 0.5 would be right i think
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks dude
<cbx33> doing it now
<cbx33> are we changing the names of all the binaries and the install locations too?
<cbx33> student-control-panel to thin-client-manager     scp to tcm   ?
<cbx33> ogra: I'd prefer not to change all the dbus internal stuff
<cbx33> what do you think?
<ogra> as long as the .desktop file shows the right name in the menu do as you like
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> we also have to think about the location in the menu now that we have this ugly control center
<ogra> i dont like it to be in the control center ....
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> was that in herd2?
<ogra> but we dont want a system tools menu ... by default
<ogra> nope
<ogra> that came in right after herd2
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> ok
* Mez -> bed
<cbx33> oh dang it....
<cbx33> i need to install my chroot for fesity
<cbx33> here are the pbuilder scripts
<cbx33> so i can create mine for fesity?
<cbx33> s/ehre/where
<James-S> 'ello
<James-S> Are there any plans to port edubuntu to KDE?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but we'd appreciate a KDE based derivative :)
<James-S> Well, i'm too busy
<ogra> so feel free to get some people together to make one
<James-S> Sorry, i'd love to but i'm working on some other things at the moment
<James-S> :-(
<ogra> but there is no problem to apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<James-S> Didn't want to pry, it's just when we used ubuntu on campus for under 18's, they didnt like GNOME
<James-S> Hm, spose so
<James-S> Any plans for MEDubuntu? :-D
<ogra> well, we get a lot of positive feedback for gnome ... i think your'e the third person coming here complaining about it since the channel exists ...
<ogra> MEDubuntu ? mediacal ubuntu ?
<ogra> *medical
<James-S> Yeah
<cbx33> ogra: oh wanted to ask you that reminded me
<James-S> ogra: I don't mind it, just they preferred KDE because of the color scheme
<ogra> James-S, what did they not like bout our desktop ? is it to colored ?
<cbx33> how easy is it to change to kubuntu for the main desktop in feisty
<ogra> or are the icons to childish ?
<cbx33> for edubuntu
<ogra> cbx33, sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
<James-S> The only complaints were the colors, the top bar was too small and the icons were fine
<cbx33> ogra: ok...i gotta add that o the book you see ;)
<cbx33> ogra: is it required to download the feisty debootstrap into edgy to run a feisty chroot?
<James-S> The bottom bar on KDE they liked, because it was large and colorful.. the psychologists on campus reccomended gnome for more mature students, and KDE for younger ones
<ogra> James-S, which release did they test ? (we changed colors every release ... aprart from the window borders)
<James-S> Not too sure, ogra
<James-S> I wasn't there, i just heard from another teacher
<ogra> its trivial to make the gnome bard 64px big ... (two clicks)
<ogra> *bar
<James-S> Well, i wouldn't know.. don't shoot the messenger
<ogra> cbx33, the edgy one should be able to ...
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> but i have never done it, i usually work completely on the development release
<cbx33> ogra: also...we're nearing the end of the week....got any progres to report so I can make rooom in the book?
<James-S> The thing is, i imagine kids would prefer something they don't have to "mess with" themselves.. i've got nothing against GNOME
<ogra> James-S, i dont want to shoot you, no worries :)
* James-S comes here from OpenMRS
<James-S> I dont relaly know why i prefer KDE
<James-S> GNOME can look good, i just had to do a lot of fiddling around with things for a few hours before it looked great :-)
<ogra> well, it has technical and manpower reasons that we use gnome edubuntu ...
<ogra> +in
* Kamping_Kaiser doesnt have to play with gnome at all for it to be useful (its when i try and play it stops being so good ;))
<willvdl> cbx33, what do you use for editing docbook files?
<willvdl> oops, he gone
<James-S> yup
<James-S> Okay, well thanks!
<ogra> thanks for dropping by
<James-S> It's okay
<James-S> I wish we had support like ubuntu.. hehe
<cbx33> sorry bout that someone crashed the entire network
<cbx33> flodding
<Kamping_Kaiser>  the psychologists on campus reccomended gnome for more mature students, and KDE for younger ones <- bahahahah
<cbx33> ogra: did you give me an update on how far the specs have come?
* Kamping_Kaiser wondesr why people lowercase gnome, but capitalise kde
<ogra> no and we dont discuss the specs here ... i'll give one after monday, after we had the internal educational teammeeting
<James-S> It's psychological :-P
<ogra> currely i have no finished spec but a lot of them started ... its al lying in pieces
<Kamping_Kaiser> James-S, :)
* James-S is not a big fan of Psychology that isn't Cognitive or neurologically based
<ogra> (apart from ltsp sound .... that should be done today and rocks :) )
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> ogra: what is the state of printing on LTSP going to be?
<ogra> no serial printewrs yet
<ogra> but everything else will work like in edgy
<ogra> i know sbalneav has patches for serial as well, but he didnt send me anything yet
<ogra> (i'm missing the HW to test serial printer stuff)
* James-S compresses himself into a quantum singularity
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, whats this about serial printers?
<James-S> I've got to make some equipment mechanism for storage, management, etc in hospitals .. i checked the bodies that you have to comply with in order for the NHS to accept the software; there's 45 criterion in all :-(
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, the new print server doesnt have support for serial printers yet ... we had to drop the old one because it wasnt licensed at all and no upstream exists anymore
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+branch/ltsp/feisty-ltsp-jetpipe
<cbx33> and how was that ogra, how id it work in edgy....
<cbx33> did they just print through the server
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, ah ok. i have the equipment to test parallel printers, so i was wondering. as for pure seriall....
<ogra> cbx33, it worked the same as in upstream ltsp ... it never changed ...
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, serial rinters are usually used in POS systems
<ogra> to print bills etc
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, yeh. i'm just looking around my room wondering if i have any serial's lying around
<cbx33> ogra: I've never printed from an ltsp thin client
<ogra> well, we need the code from sbalneav first :)
<ogra> cbx33, look in the ltsp.org docs
<ogra> its 100% equal ... and will stay this way (if i get scotties code)
<cbx33> ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah well. i dont have a serial printer (well, not that i can see)
<cbx33> ogra: w00t I have a source file
<cbx33> I'll try installing that on my machine at home later
<cbx33> see if it makes it in a usable state
<RichEd> hey cbx33 ... can you mail me the .PDF for your BETT brochure ?
<cbx33> um....yeh sure
* cbx33 goes hunting
<RichEd> pliss tank yew ....
<RichEd> :)
<cbx33> RichEd: it may be best to get it from will
<cbx33> I'll send you my version but he has the one that went to the printers
<cbx33> RichEd: it may be best to get it from will
<cbx33> I'll send you my version but he has the one that went to the printers
<RichEd> thanks :)
<cbx33> whoops
<RichEd> thanks :)
<RichEd> i keep seeing 2 of everthying
<cbx33> it's on it's way
<cbx33> my lag here is awful
<cbx33> can't wait till my friends server is fixed
<juliux> cbx33, did you create the logo for edubuntu-schools team?
* Kamping_Kaiser gives lams another dirty look and downloads the newsest jboss to try and help it along
* RichEd slaps LAMS around a bit and tells it "listen to karl damnit and behave yourself !
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe. thanks for that :)
* RichEd hopes it helps
<Kamping_Kaiser> time will tell. unfortunately i cant work on it to much tonight - gotta pick mum up from the airport early am :/
<cbx33> juliux: yes
<juliux> cbx33, if you want i can create one with the edubuntu circle and not with the ubuntu one
<cbx33> oooh yes
<cbx33> thanky
<juliux> cbx33, i will email it to you
<juliux> cbx33, here it is http://ubuntu.juliux.de/edubuntuschool16x16.png it is already in the right size for launchpad
<willvdl> Can anyone suggest a reasonable spec for edubuntu workstation?
<Kamping_Kaiser> workstation? as oposed to thin client?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'd think any p3+256mb ram would do as a minimal thing
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> so P4+512MB off-the-shelf is decent enough
<Kamping_Kaiser> 1 gig cpu, 512ram and your flying
<Kamping_Kaiser> easy
<willvdl> don't need to fly but would be cool
<Kamping_Kaiser> (imo)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
* Kamping_Kaiser has his edubuntu workstation chained down
<cbx33> awesome juliux
<cbx33> if you could email it to me that would be great
<juliux> cbx33, ok
<crazytales2> I have edubuntu running on a 1.7GHz celery/512mb
<crazytales2> at 1600x1200
<cbx33> RichEd: did you get my file?
<RichEd> yes thanks ... and it's on its way to the philippines
<RichEd> :)
<cbx33> wow awesome
<cbx33> RichEd: do you have 2 mins fro a quick chat?
<RichEd> in 5 mins yeah :)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> just ping me
<juliux> cool on the new thinclients is now sound working
<James-S> :)
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> anyone know if you can get sound on dapper LTS and if so is there a wiki guide for it that works?
<ogra> SOUND=True
<ogra> (its very strict about the wording in dapper)
<ogra> i have to pack up, we need to leave the room
<cbx33> ogra ok
<cbx33> thanks
<juliux> ogra, i have sucess with sound on thinclients here
<juliux> anybody awake?
<joumetal> juliux I'm awake
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> Can anyone tell me if FL_TeacherTool works with the Ubuntu LTSP?
<juliux> joumetal, did you tested the feisty iso?
<joumetal> juliux no. It would be intresting. I have up to date ubuntu-feisty installed if it's any help.
<juliux> hm all feisty iso are broken on my core duo
<joumetal> juliux are you familiar with malone?
<juliux> i check malone but there was no bug report
<joumetal> maybe it's core duo problem. It would be very nice to get core duos working with feisty. How broken are isos?
<juliux> after the keyboard decetion the installation hangs
<juliux> if i switch to tty4 i see the error kernel not found
<juliux> i will try now edgy and then upgrading to feisty
<juliux> http://www.transtec.de/D/D/products/personal_computer/pc/mini_pc.html?mod=prod&name=SY600MTA45-A this is the pc
<cliebow_> ltsp anyone?syntax for an lts.conf ..specify by hostname or MAC address?
<juliux> cliebow_, booth is working
<cliebow_> ah k.. SCREEN_01=shell too?
<joumetal> juliux I suggest filing new bug report with much information.
<cliebow_> juliux:just getting final touches on powerpc chroot from 1386
<juliux> joumetal, i want to talk with a dev bevor i do tath;)
<juliux> that
<juliux> so bug report field;)
#edubuntu 2007-01-27
<DeannaTheGeek> hiyas!
<DeannaTheGeek> anyone awake?
<Burgwork> not really
<DeannaTheGeek> :-)
<DeannaTheGeek> I'm a complete Linux n00b
<Burgwork> welcome
<DeannaTheGeek> I was hoping to pick some brains
<Burgwork> this is a friday night and it is early UTC, thus few people on
<DeannaTheGeek> I got this laptop from my sister for Xmas, and I installed edubuntu instead of running Windows ME
<Burgwork> right
<Burgwork> did you install the full version or just the workstation?
<DeannaTheGeek> workstation, I believe
<Burgwork> right
<DeannaTheGeek> everything works great
<Burgwork> perfect
<Burgwork> you don't need us then :)
<DeannaTheGeek> I even learned some cool stuff from a book called Ubuntu Hacks
<DeannaTheGeek> I just can't get my sound to work :-(
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> at all?
<DeannaTheGeek> not at all
<crimsun> thin client/LTSP configuration or standalone?
<DeannaTheGeek> Device Manager has the soundcard listed
<DeannaTheGeek> standalone, I believe
<DeannaTheGeek> this is my first time ever playing with Ubuntu
<DeannaTheGeek> only Linux experience was Red Hat 9 a couple years ago
<crimsun> please use http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org to provide the information requested at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/42718/comments/11
<DeannaTheGeek> ?
<crimsun> apologies, I presumed you were asking for assistance.
<DeannaTheGeek> well, assistance and conversation
<DeannaTheGeek> maybe a mentor :-)
<DeannaTheGeek> teach me to be an ubuntu Jedi, so to speak
<DeannaTheGeek> I don't want to raise my daughter on Windows
* DeannaTheGeek thinks she scared everyone away...
<Burgwork> I am about to leave work, so just clearing up some stuff
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: I'm awaiting the requested information above if you're seeking assistance.
<DeannaTheGeek> working on it
<DeannaTheGeek> my hubby keeps IMing me jokes :-P
<DeannaTheGeek> what do I put for syntax?
<crimsun> Text is acceptable.
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<crimsun> Please tell us the URL when you've finished that.
<DeannaTheGeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3042/
<DeannaTheGeek> would this be it?
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: not precisely, no.
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: the latter URL I gave you above contains a numbered list of commands you should type in a Terminal. That's the output to which I'm referring.
<crimsun> (although I can surmise what you probably need to do)
<DeannaTheGeek> the latter URL leads me to Bug 42718
<crimsun> it should take you to a specific comment.
<DeannaTheGeek> sound capture on Thinkpad
<DeannaTheGeek> that one?
<crimsun> yes, I need the output from those numbered points.
<DeannaTheGeek> please forgive me if I seem obtuse, it's been a long week
<crimsun> Heh, you're telling me. I'm still at work.
<DeannaTheGeek> ick
<DeannaTheGeek> I left work as soon as I possibly could
<DeannaTheGeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3044/
<DeannaTheGeek> I ran all those commands
<DeannaTheGeek> I think I got it all in there, but it's hard to tell when you have a 5-year-old hanging on your mouse arm
<crimsun> line 17 shows there's a bit omitted.
<DeannaTheGeek> ?
<DeannaTheGeek> probably got some cut off
<crimsun> there are additional lines in the output of ``amixer'' (at the top) that are missing.
<DeannaTheGeek> crap
<DeannaTheGeek> I need a few minutes-I need to throw in another load of laundry
<DeannaTheGeek> when you're wife, mommy, breadwinner, & geek of the house, there's never any rest
<DeannaTheGeek> :-P
<DeannaTheGeek> sorry I'm a little slow tonight
<DeannaTheGeek> it thinks I'm trying to spam & won't let me edit my entry
<crimsun> then just paste the first twenty lines of amixer from this command: amixer |head -20
<DeannaTheGeek> ok, I'll try
<DeannaTheGeek> also trying to order pizza so kids don't try to eat me
<DeannaTheGeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3047/
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: please try:  amixer set 'External Amplifier' mute
<DeannaTheGeek> do I type that into the terminal?
<crimsun> copy and paste verbatim.
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: after that:  aplay /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav
<crimsun> does that latter command produce audible sound?
<DeannaTheGeek> nope
<DeannaTheGeek> Simple mixer control 'External Amplifier',0
<DeannaTheGeek>   Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
<DeannaTheGeek>   Playback channels: Mono
<DeannaTheGeek>   Mono: Playback [off] 
<DeannaTheGeek> I feel stoopid
<DeannaTheGeek> I can't figure out a stinkin' sound card problem
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: ok, sec, I need to check some additional things.
<DeannaTheGeek> thanks
<DeannaTheGeek> I really appreciate it
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: ok, I'll need all of amixer in a separate paste, please.
<DeannaTheGeek> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/3048/
<DeannaTheGeek> are these commands specific to Ubuntu, or are they universal Linux commands?
<crimsun> ok, is it a desktop or a laptop?
<DeannaTheGeek> laptop
<crimsun> they're fairly universal.
<DeannaTheGeek> Compaq Presario 1200US
<crimsun> ok, please try: amixer set 'Master Mono' 80%,unmute
<DeannaTheGeek> Simple mixer control 'Master Mono',0
<DeannaTheGeek>   Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
<DeannaTheGeek>   Playback channels: Mono
<DeannaTheGeek>   Limits: Playback 0 - 31
<DeannaTheGeek>   Mono: Playback 25 [81%]  [off] 
<crimsun> amixer set 'Master Mono' unmute
<DeannaTheGeek> Simple mixer control 'Master Mono',0
<DeannaTheGeek>   Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
<DeannaTheGeek>   Playback channels: Mono
<DeannaTheGeek>   Limits: Playback 0 - 31
<DeannaTheGeek>   Mono: Playback 25 [81%]  [on] 
<crimsun> ok, now try the aplay command again
<crimsun> I presume this is a fresh install of Dapper 6.06?
<DeannaTheGeek> nothing
<DeannaTheGeek> I installed it about a week ago, but yeah, it was to a cleanly formatted disk
<crimsun> ok, amixer set 'Capture' nocap && amixer set 'Aux' 80%,80% && amixer set 'Aux' unmute && amixer set 'PC Speaker' 80% && amixer set 'PC Speaker' unmute && amixer set 'Video' 80%,80% && amixer set 'Video' unmute && amixer set 'Line' 80%,80% && amixer set 'Line' unmute
<crimsun> (yep, copy and paste that whole thing)
<DeannaTheGeek> including ok?
<DeannaTheGeek> ;-)
<DeannaTheGeek> tried the aplay command again, nothing
<crimsun> ok, did you also paste ``tail -2 /proc/asound/oss/sndstat'' ?
<crimsun> (the output from it, rather)
<DeannaTheGeek> don't think so-it thought it was spam
<DeannaTheGeek> trying to send you a file with all the info from that link
<crimsun> via dcc? I can't accept those.
<DeannaTheGeek> crud
<DeannaTheGeek> 1 sec
<DeannaTheGeek> Mixers:
<DeannaTheGeek> 0: Analog Devices AD1881A
<crimsun> ok, it's probable that bugfix is not present in 6.06
<DeannaTheGeek> ?
<crimsun> the 1881As have a driver bug
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<crimsun> we can test a newer version of ALSA if you're willing, have the time, and have broadband.
<DeannaTheGeek> so I have a completely different problem
<DeannaTheGeek> can I ask a stupid question first?
<crimsun> you may ask a question, certainly.
<DeannaTheGeek> can a faulty memory module blow out an onboard sound device in a laptop?
<crimsun> not normally.
<DeannaTheGeek> I tried upgrading my memory, and when I did, my screen went garbly
<crimsun> granted bad RAM can cause all sorts of nondeterministic errors
<DeannaTheGeek> after that, my sound no workie
<crimsun> did you add a module or replace one?
<DeannaTheGeek> that's when I switched from Windows to edubuntu
<DeannaTheGeek> replaced one
<crimsun> do you still have the old one?
<DeannaTheGeek> took out the 64 MB, added a 256 MB
<DeannaTheGeek> I sent the new one back
<DeannaTheGeek> had to put the old one back in to get the laptop to function
<crimsun> well, we can't rule out the possibility of hardware error, but it's fairly unlikely given you're running the original now.
<DeannaTheGeek> and that the OS detects the sound card as a functioning device
<DeannaTheGeek> everything in a laptop is interconnected, it could have done something strange
<crimsun> I'm fairly certain it's not caused by that RAM.
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<crimsun> I know there's a documented bugfix for the 1881A
<DeannaTheGeek> I wish I had schematics for my motherboard
<DeannaTheGeek> I'd love to rip this open & make sure it's not a loose wire
<crimsun> speaking of which, the connectors are snug, correct?
<DeannaTheGeek> there are speakers built into the laptop, no wires
<crimsun> no headphone jack, either?
<DeannaTheGeek> I connected headphones to the headphone jack-no sound there, either
<crimsun> well, we could try the newest development version of the sound driver.
<DeannaTheGeek> from edgy?
<crimsun> you'd need to install the following packages: build-essential, linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<DeannaTheGeek> think it might help?
<crimsun> no, from upstream (ALSA)
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<DeannaTheGeek> what command would I use?
<crimsun> you could use Synaptic to install those packages, or you could use:  sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers-$(uname -r)
<crimsun> (let me know if that's what you wish to do)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all.
<DeannaTheGeek> well, it did something
<DeannaTheGeek> do I need to reboot?
* DeannaTheGeek wishes she hadn't picked this week to quit smoking
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh :/
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: not yet, we haven't gotten the new drivers yet.
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: next step: wget ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/driver/alsa-driver-1.0.14rc2.tar.bz2
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<DeannaTheGeek> next step would be...
<DeannaTheGeek> ...unpacking the tarball?
<crimsun> yes
<DeannaTheGeek> ok
<DeannaTheGeek> how do I do that?
<crimsun> tar xf alsa-driver-1.0.14rc2.tar.bz2
<DeannaTheGeek> ok...
<crimsun> I'm at work, so I won't be able to respond immediately
<crimsun> essentially:
<DeannaTheGeek> sorry if I'm being a pest
<crimsun> cd alsa-driver-1.0.14rc2 && ./configure --with-oss=yes --with-sequencer=yes --with-kernel=/lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build --with-debug=detect && make && sudo make install-modules && sudo depmod -e && kill $(lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*) ; sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod|grep ^snd|awk '{print $1}') && sudo rm -f /var/lib/alsa/asound.state && sudo modprobe snd-via82xx
<crimsun> that will compile the driver, install it, close/kill all running sound apps, unload the current driver, erase the old state file, and load the new driver.
<crimsun> at that point you should test with the aplay command again after checking that your volumes are unmuted and up to a reasonable (80%) level.
<DeannaTheGeek> hmmm....
<DeannaTheGeek> not wanting to recompile
<DeannaTheGeek> thoughts?
<crimsun> DeannaTheGeek: meaning it fails, or...?
<DeannaTheGeek> keeps failing out
<crimsun> where, and with what messages?
<DeannaTheGeek> i keep trying to rerun that line of code you gave me a couple hours ago
<DeannaTheGeek> I'll let you know if it fails again
<DeannaTheGeek> FATAL: Module snd_ac97_bus not found.
<DeannaTheGeek> happens after about 10-15 minutes after entering that code
<DeannaTheGeek> lsof: status error on /dev/dsp*: No such file or directory
<DeannaTheGeek> kill: usage: kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -sigspec]  pid | jobspec ... or kill -l [sigspec] 
<DeannaTheGeek> FATAL: Module snd_ac97_bus not found.
<crimsun> there's probably nothing to kill
<DeannaTheGeek> well, whatever's happening, I now have a little red X next to my speaker icon, which I didn't have before
<crimsun> right, your sound driver is unloaded, I suspect
<crimsun> check the output of: lsmod |grep ^snd
<DeannaTheGeek> :-D
<DeannaTheGeek> made a whole lot of stuff
<DeannaTheGeek> looking for anything in particular?
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_ac97_bus            2304  0
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_pcm_oss            53664  0
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_mixer_oss          18688  1 snd_pcm_oss
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_pcm                89864  1 snd_pcm_oss
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_timer              25220  1 snd_pcm
<DeannaTheGeek> snd_page_alloc         10632  1 snd_pcm
<DeannaTheGeek> snd                    55268  4 snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
<DeannaTheGeek> it's after midnight-I need to crash
<DeannaTheGeek> if you get any ideas, just keep typing & I'll see them when I wake up
<DeannaTheGeek> thanks again for all the help Crimsun
<DeannaTheGeek> if you're ever in Austin, TX, I'll owe ya a beer or two
<Kamping_Kaiser> crud. jboss core dumped :/ so much for todays hacking
<ms_kai> brb
<cliebow> ogra travelling?
<DeannaTheGeek> morning
<DeannaTheGeek> anyone awake?
<Kamping_Kaiser> morning DeannaTheGeek :) (hope you slept well)
<DeannaTheGeek> I never sleep well-I always dream about work & SQL
<DeannaTheGeek> :-D
<DeannaTheGeek> how about you Kaiser?  you doing OK?
<Kamping_Kaiser> DeannaTheGeek, i was, until i realised i cant download a bunch of packages i need to do bug work :/
<DeannaTheGeek> that stinks :-P
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, its worse then sleep :P
<DeannaTheGeek> but not worse than what I'm about to go through
* Kamping_Kaiser worries - your not about to compile are you?
<DeannaTheGeek> 4 hours of Saturday Morning Cartoons with the kids
* Kamping_Kaiser gasps
<Kamping_Kaiser> my thoughts are with you!
<cliebow> Roadrunner rules
<DeannaTheGeek> did you know that Viva Pinata was a Saturday Morning Cartoon before it was an Xbox 360 game?
<DeannaTheGeek> some of the ones on Kids' WB are OK
<DeannaTheGeek> like the new Scooby Doo Get A Clue
<DeannaTheGeek> and Loonatics Unleashed isn't too bad
<DeannaTheGeek> but Monster Allergies is soo stupid
<DeannaTheGeek> soo...
<DeannaTheGeek> anyone up for a challenge this morning?  :-D
<DeannaTheGeek> crimsun was helping me with my sound last night
<Kamping_Kaiser> its not morning yet!
<DeannaTheGeek> now it REALLY not working
<DeannaTheGeek> it's 7:30 am here
<DeannaTheGeek> if my kids are awake, it must be morning
<Kamping_Kaiser> its 23:52 here, so its not morning!
<DeannaTheGeek> where are you?
<Kamping_Kaiser> South Australia
<DeannaTheGeek> groovy!!!
<DeannaTheGeek> I'm in Austin, Texas, USA
<Kamping_Kaiser> neat.
<DeannaTheGeek> I told my daughter I was talking to someone from Australia, and she asked if I was talking to Bindi's dad :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> thats right, you wwere almost a whole day beind when we got the year 2000 ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<DeannaTheGeek> Crocodile Hunter
<DeannaTheGeek> she's 5
<DeannaTheGeek> and has a mind like a steel trap
<Kamping_Kaiser> tehehe.
<DeannaTheGeek> http://ladyclairemarie.com
<DeannaTheGeek> this would be her
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm happily anoyed - a sunblade 150 has PCI0 on its pci slots (where i dont expect it), a 100 has PCI0 onboard (where i'd expect it)
<DeannaTheGeek> ok...
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh, sorry, random. i'm working on soem computers....
<DeannaTheGeek> unless you're talking RPGs, I don't know a sunblade from a moonblade
<DeannaTheGeek> :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> that picutres pretty cute, btw
<DeannaTheGeek> :-)
<DeannaTheGeek> ty
<DeannaTheGeek> she's my princess
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<DeannaTheGeek> she actually has her Basic 3 evaluation today
<Kamping_Kaiser> sunbade -> http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/sunblade150/
<Kamping_Kaiser> whats basic 3?
<DeannaTheGeek> figure skating-beginner skills level
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<DeannaTheGeek> I didn't know Sun my computers
<DeannaTheGeek> I thought they were just software
<Kamping_Kaiser> good heavens no :)
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs his sun gear
<DeannaTheGeek> :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<DeannaTheGeek> I feel the way about the computers I build
<DeannaTheGeek> which is why I'm trying to learn Linux and escape from Bill Gates' clutches
<Kamping_Kaiser> suns are proper computers, not pc crap (as a rule), like the alpha by digital. i love the things
* Kamping_Kaiser has some alphas as well
<DeannaTheGeek> I've only been in IT for 6 years now, so I'm still learning
<DeannaTheGeek> maybe I'll learn more hanging around here
<Kamping_Kaiser> only? phht.
<DeannaTheGeek> well, before that I was an Army linguist
<DeannaTheGeek> and I spent my whole life working up to that
<Kamping_Kaiser> what do you linguise in? :P
<DeannaTheGeek> spanish, italian, latin, french, german, portugese, and arabic
<DeannaTheGeek> but I only really use Spanish now, since Texas is overrun by Mexicans
<Kamping_Kaiser> :O i cant even speak english and german properly *grin*
<Kamping_Kaiser> (actually, i'm good with english... its my native language, i just like the joke)
<DeannaTheGeek> I speak english and bad english
<DeannaTheGeek> and my kids & I are learning sign language
<Kamping_Kaiser> i tried, it was too much effort when you dont know anyone who speaks it though
<Kamping_Kaiser> speaks/signs
<DeannaTheGeek> my daughter<was born not able to hear well
<DeannaTheGeek> she had to have surgery when she was 2
<DeannaTheGeek> I figured, good idea to be prepared, just in case
<Kamping_Kaiser> good thinking
* Kamping_Kaiser packs up so hes function at the meeting tomorrow
<DeannaTheGeek> that, and it makes understanding my son a lot easier
<DeannaTheGeek> he's not even 2 yet, and he does about 10 signs
<DeannaTheGeek> cuts down on the tantrums
<DeannaTheGeek> so do you have any ideas on how I can get my sound working?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ask crimsun to fix you up :)
* Kamping_Kaiser knows nothing about sound at all - i cant even get my 4.0 speakers working :/
<DeannaTheGeek> I don't think he's around right now
* Kamping_Kaiser takes piles of crud off his bed so theres room to sleep on it
<DeannaTheGeek> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnight DeannaTheGeek :) good luck with your sound this morning :)
<DeannaTheGeek> thx
<DeannaTheGeek> nite
<Feral_Kid> Help!!! :) I used the lockdown editor to lock down my daughter's computer... I need to add some applets to the panel, but I have not been able to unlock her account in order to add the applets... Can someone tell me what I need to do?
<crimsun> Deanna-NeedSound: you should unload all the sound modules
<crimsun> Deanna-NeedSound: sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}')
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 23h 30m 32s ago, quiting: Connection timed out
<juliux> cbx33, ogra is traveling home
<juliux> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi juliux
<jaybe_> hi, i have a problem with gnome-breakout on edubuntu 6.10
<jaybe_> when I try to start gnome-breakout, I only receive the message:
<jaybe_> Gdk-ERROR **: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
<jaybe_>   serial 552 error_code 8 request_code 2 minor_code 0
<jaybe_> Does anybody know the reason for this or a solution?
<jaybe_> I've search launchpad but had no success
<jaybe> hi, i have a problem with gnome-breakout on edubuntu 6.10
<jaybe>  when I try to start gnome-breakout, I only receive the message:
<jaybe>  Gdk-ERROR **: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
<jaybe>    serial 552 error_code 8 request_code 2 minor_code 0
<jaybe>  Does anybody know the reason for this or a solution?
<jaybe>  I've search launchpad but had no success
<bddebian> Heya
<xvlun> hi
<xvlun> are there any complications with the recent freenx version in edubuntu?
<cliebow> still no ogra..
<LaserJock> he should be traveling back home I think
<littlepaul> hi I have a question. We have an thread since 8.1
<littlepaul> Which device classes can be used by (thinclient)user and which group memberships are needed? The question regards the using of
<littlepaul> serial devices over usb like phone or palme devices. The respective group for usb devices is fuse
#edubuntu 2007-01-28
<Joe44> Hello. I have a question... I installed flash 9 and now when I start firefox I get "Error launching browser window:no XBL bimding browser". Is there anyway I can fix this? I am running the ppc version if it matters. Any help?
<cbx33> !seen ogra
<edubuntugirl> cbx33: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'TCM is looking very nice, judging by the screenshots' 5 days, 20 hours, 31 minutes and 12 seconds ago (on Mon Jan 22 20:52:02 2007)
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 1d 21h 38m 53s ago, quiting: Connection timed out
<cbx33> edubuntugirl tell highvoltage Thanks, I'll send you the source if you're interested.  Still in development ;)
<edubuntugirl> Righto, cbx33!
<cbx33> edubuntugirl tell ogra Hi dude, sent you email with source, will hopefully be available after 5 UTC, please SMS me ;)
<edubuntugirl> Righto, cbx33!
<cbx33> bbl
<cliebow_> cbx33:how faent-moniyor gotten..i saw the snapshotsr has your stud
<cliebow_> Balls
<cliebow_> cbx33:how far has your student-monitor gotten..i saw thesnapshots..
<cliebow_> this laptop is possessed
<cliebow> ograaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<crimsun> isn't he still travelling?
<cliebow> afraid so..i just wanted to tel him i got ppc woorking ltsp5 from intel server
<crimsun> excellent.
<cliebow> just needed a few pointers on ibook and x
<Jhutt> Hello I have a problem with installing edubuntu.  I am trying to install it on a IBM ThinkPad X20, the CD boots but the crashes just after loading the kernel any ideas?
<Jhutt> help??
<crimsun> way to stick around.
<cliebow> anyone care to tell me how to mount the initrd so i can poke around? that an ext2 filesyst em?
<cliebow> ltsp initrd that is
#edubuntu 2008-01-21
<RichEd> hi stgraber
<RichEd> did you sort out the italc problem ... saw a comment from you yesterday
<stgraber> RichEd: nope, not really ... I found a way to workaround it but there still seems to be some arch specific bugs
<stgraber> I'll try on i386 hardy and see if I have the same weird bugs (basically the daemon not listening on some computers but listening on some others ...)
<ogra1> stgraber, i'll do some extensive testing after the sprint (next week)
<stgraber> ogra1: ok, the main problem was that iTalc (master interface) wasn't able to connect on a different port than 5900 which is a problem as we have a different port for each client
<stgraber> ogra1: my current iTalc can connect on another port by specifying the host in an environment variable
<ogra1> ugh
<ogra1> really ?
<stgraber> and it seems to work (tm)
<ogra1> yeah, but thats a horrible design
<ogra1> anyway, if it works ... *shrug*
<stgraber> but then I have that weird port problem ...
<stgraber> that part work, but then it's unable to connect to its local VNC server because the daemon (ica) isn't listening for some weird reason
<stgraber> so that's really really weird and the code is far from easy to understand ... (spent 2-3 hours just to figure out where was the hardcoded port and how it worked)
<jared> whats the difference between ubuntu and edubuntu?
<johnny> extra packages
<jared> ohk
<johnny> and makes it slightly easier to setup ltsp
<jared> does it use KDE or GNOME?
<johnny> gnome
<johnny> some kde apps for education tho
<jared> kk
#edubuntu 2008-01-22
<RichEd> hey juliux
<RichEd> saw your mugs on the fridge
<juliux> hi RichEd
<juliux> coo
<juliux> l
<juliux> we will produce 300 edubuntu mugs, they will be ready for CeBIT
<juliux> but they will be more expansive
<jsoyer> hi
<highvoltage> hi jsoyer
<jsoyer> anyone use edubuntu with ldap, pammount and smbfs ?
<jsoyer> i have some problem with unmounting some smfs partition at logout
<highvoltage> there are some people, there's a script that sets most of it up for you too, but it's not an official ubuntu project
<jsoyer> highvoltage: where i can read it ?
<highvoltage> let me find it...
<jsoyer> highvoltage: my main problem is that the share not unmounting at logout with ldm, but it works with ssh for example
<jsoyer> thanks highvoltage
<highvoltage> jsoyer: http://majen.net/smbldap/
<jsoyer> oh yes, i see this morning, thanks, but i don't pay attention to this. thanks :)
<jsoyer> highvoltage: ldm is a wrapper no ?
<highvoltage> it's really a remote login manager
<jsoyer> ok
<highvoltage> it runs on the local machine, and then initiates the remote session via ssh
<jsoyer> ok, it don't interact with pam ?
<highvoltage> not on the local machine, afaik
<highvoltage> ogra and sbalneav know the exact details on how it works
<highvoltage> if you could hang around a bit, they could give you good answers :)
<jsoyer> ok thanks :)
<jsoyer> i don't see anything in auth.log when you try to log in with ldm
<stgraber> jsoyer: ldm auth using SSH and then uses /etc/pam.d/ssh
<jsoyer> stgraber: yes but why when i connect under ssh all mount and umount is done, and why with ldm is not umount ?
<jsoyer> it's a tty problem ?
#edubuntu 2008-01-23
<jamesstilwell3rd> I seem to be having problems with the 7.10 iso I downloaded tonight (I do -- generally -- know how to burn an .iso)
<jamesstilwell3rd> I'm attempting a server install on an IBM xSeries 360 with one of those laptop-type cdrom drives.
<jamesstilwell3rd> I've burned isos on two different types of media on two different machines (4x burns total) and all have failed integrity tests.
<jamesstilwell3rd> I've been using k12ltsp, after a negative experience with 7.04, and I'm trying to give edubuntu another shot...
<jamesstilwell3rd> make that 5x failures...
<iMacGyver> i'm using ltsp with edubuntu and i'm trying to disable screen blanking, the screensavers are off, how do you add settings to the generated xorg.conf?
<Contessa> good morning all
<johnny> mornin
<Contessa> how are you .. where are you ?
<johnny> ?
<johnny> sleepy
<johnny> just woke up
<Contessa> hmmm .... Hawaii ?
<johnny> no
<johnny> EST
<Contessa> sleep in late ?
<Contessa> work late ?
<johnny> yeah.. something like that
<johnny> i work at home
<johnny> but also work at a local coffeehouse bookstore
<Contessa> I'm at home .... its 7.30am
<johnny> and i closed the store last night at 11
<Contessa> ah
<Contessa> store ?
<Contessa> ah ...
<Contessa> so ..do you create Edubuntu, or use it ?
<LaserJock> Contessa: 7:30am? are you in Hawaii?
<Contessa> no ...NBew Zealand
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I thought NZ was at least an hr earlier
<LaserJock> I'm Pacific so it's 10:30am on Wednesday
<Contessa> summer time ... we ARE one hour earlier
<Contessa> its 7.35 am on Thursday morning here
<LaserJock> it's always funny to me that NZ people are often closest to me in time ... just a day ahead
<Contessa> its great .... I am in all of your tomorrows !
<LaserJock> Contessa: now your freaking me out ;-)
<LaserJock> *you're
<Contessa> oh dear .... you dont want me in your tomorrows ?
 * Contessa is in everyone's tomorrow
<LaserJock> but ... but ... if you're in my tomorrow how am I talking to you today?!? :-)
 * LaserJock 's head explodes
<Contessa> omnipotence
<laga> omnipresence rather
<Contessa> yeah ..that too
<laga> ;)
 * Contessa feels her head swelling 
 * Contessa looks for ice 
 * RichEd plays with anagrams of omnipotence minus the second "o"
<RichEd> and the second "n"
<RichEd> LaserJock: you up for the meeting in an hour ?
<Contessa> make a suggestion for me will ..you ...I prolly shjould look at going to work
 * RichEd gets his pen and sits for dictation
<RichEd> go ahead
<Contessa> make a decent install of Rosegarden ...
<Contessa> and include it in Edubuntu
<RichEd> Contessa: is it in any of the ubuntu repositories yet ?
<Contessa> I dont know
<Contessa> I'm currently using SL5 - but building Rosegarden for SL5 is somewhat a bit of a journey ...and Edubuntu is my next favourite distro
<stgraber> rosegarden | 1:1.6.1-1ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<Contessa> ah
<stgraber> sudo aptitude install rosegarden
<pips1> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/sound/rosegarden
<stgraber> and you "should" have it installed
<stgraber> hey pips1
<pips1> hi stgraber
<Contessa> okj .... time to add Edubuntu to my biog machine  again
<Contessa> ty
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> rosegarden is an interesting suggestion
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Studio ships it
<LaserJock> RichEd: yeah, I'm working from home today, and I wanted to chat with people
<stgraber> good, so the packaging should be good and easy to install
<stgraber> not sure if we can consider it as educational software though
 * stgraber has just read apt and wikipedia description
<RichEd> LaserJock: ogra is in London at the distro sprint ... so we'll not have any tech news from him
<LaserJock> RichEd: bah
<LaserJock> distro sprints are a real pain for the rest of us :/
<LaserJock> stgraber: I was thinking of doing jokosher rather than rosegarden
<stgraber> yes, jokosher seems easier to use
<johnny> does it work nwo?
<johnny> now*
<RichEd> == edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 mins ===
<pygi> oh noes :P
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> RichEd: I'm a tad concerned about docs for Hardy
<stgraber> we can continue with website as pips1 is here :)
<LaserJock> we've had 0 commits to "official" docs
<stgraber> ouch, not good
<RichEd> stgraber: his nick was in #ubuntu-meeting as well but his keyboard was not
<RichEd> LaserJock: oops
<pips1> hi
<RichEd> hello mr pips1 sir
<RichEd> how is the baby ?
<pips1> well, nothing to report really, I closed some bugs related to the website, but that's it
<RichEd> okay :0
<pips1> LaserJock: what was that you said about documentation?
<RichEd> LaserJock: what do we need to do to get the docs moving then
<LaserJock> pips1: we've had 0 commits for the Hardy branch
<RichEd> has it been a case of people who are no longer active ?
<pips1> oh
<LaserJock> I just don't have the time to spearhead things
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, sbalneav *was* the docs
<pips1> well, afaik, last time round it was mainly sbalnaev who contributed to the docs?
<LaserJock> I've just been doing packaging related things, not writing content
<RichEd> LaserJock: and now ?
<stgraber> LaserJock: what's the Edubuntu-specific bit now ?
<LaserJock> I haven't seen sbalneav for ages
<stgraber> LTSP being Ubuntu now
<RichEd> mmm ...
<LaserJock> stgraber: good point, the problem is that we've not transitioned docs
<LaserJock> so the only LTSP documentation would be from edubuntu-docs
<RichEd> didn't nixternal do a lot of doc work for edubuntu before ?
<LaserJock> some yeah, mostly he helped me with packaging and getting things into svn
<pips1> RichEd: not sure, but I think nixternal helped mainly with re-structuring some existing content..
<RichEd> any suggestions from anyone ?
 * pygi knows some things about edubuntu docs, as he wrote the initial stuff
<pygi> anything I could do to help?
<pygi> what's the problem anyway?
<pips1> so what are the new features of edubuntu in hardy that need documentation anyway
<pips1> ?
<RichEd> is there much specific edubuntu content, or it is a matter of reshaping ubuntu content ?
<LaserJock> well, for one, we should decide whether to carry the LTSP stuff
<pygi> RichEd, there's enough edubuntu specific content I'd say
<pygi> LaserJock, don't see why not?
<LaserJock> also the documentation is centered around Classroom Server + Addon CD
<pips1> I'd say LTSP should be merged into the ubuntu docs, no?
<pygi> I just dont dig that stuff that it should go in server
<LaserJock> whereas we'll be doing the addon thing
<pips1> so this dev cycle, it was mainly the restructuring (ltsp move to ubuntu), right?
<LaserJock> so I think we might consider ripping out the LTSP stuff and moving it to ubuntu docs
<LaserJock> then making sure we're documenting all that we are changing
<stgraber> Would make sense
 * pygi thinks all that actually makes no sense, but oh well
<LaserJock> and I had hoped we could do more "useful" documentation rather than reference
<LaserJock> pygi: well, it's not up to you and I ;-)
<stgraber> then the doc would mainly be about : How to install and the differences between Ubuntu and Edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah
<pips1> stgraber: what about italc? is there any existing documentation that could be used as a base, in case italc makes it in?
<LaserJock> and I'd love to see more Education resources, etc.
<pygi> LaserJock, oh, no, it's about the users and teacher and people indeed
<stgraber> pips1: hmm, the tool also existing for Windows I'm sure there is some doc but I haven't really took time to investigate that (having it to work is already hard enough believe me :))
 * RichEd needs to head off ... but will keep this channel open and read the log tomorow
<RichEd> thanks and good night all
<stgraber> RichEd: good night
<LaserJock> RichEd: I think I'll send out a series of emails to -devel
<LaserJock> so we can get some discussion
<RichEd> sounds good
<pips1> stgraber: I hear you... I had a very brief look just at the description of italc quite some time ago and I thought: wow, that is a real swiss army knife app! all that functionality...
<pips1> oops, disregard my last comment, a mixup with CipUX
<pips1> iTalk documentation is a wiki: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
<pips1> *italc
<pips1> GNU Free Documentation License 1.2
<pips1> stgraber, LaserJock: so, *is* there any new functionality in gutsy?
<LaserJock> in gutsy?
<pips1> hardy
<pips1> sorry
<LaserJock> well, the whole installation is different
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what's  been done with LTSP but it's always progressing
<LaserJock> but I don't think there's such a jump like LTSP 4.2->5
<pips1> right
<LaserJock> Hardy should mostly be making Gutsy more usable, stable, bug-free
<stgraber> IIRC the main LTSP change will be the ltsp GUI tool to configure and generate chroot then squashfs it
<pips1> I think it was mainly polishing... a big step still missing is localapps, afaik
<LaserJock> my hope is that we can get documentation and the website in really good shape
<LaserJock> I think ogra's done a really good job of getting the technical parts in good shape
<stgraber> pips1: yes, you won't see localapps in Hardy :( (even if it technicaly can work, it would require too much work to have it ready on time)
<pips1> LaserJock: problem is, there is nobody around that actually knows the latest developments
<pips1> it's all in ogra's head
<stgraber> I'm in #ltsp but there hasn't been much change lately
<stgraber> the main change being the big move to bzr and LP
<LaserJock> pips1: right, so we need to "extract" it :-)
<pips1> stgraber: I think you might be the one community member (besides Laser) most knowlegable about what happened this dev cycle, no?
<stgraber> probably as I'm also a member of the QA team and then working on the various testcases
<pips1> *knowledgable
<pips1> right
<stgraber> +I like experimental things :)
<LaserJock> *so* let's use -devel, get things discussed/set and then *do it* :-)
<pips1> so, LaserJock what happened in MOTU space for edubuntu (i.e. the addon cd) ?
<pips1> any new edu apps added to main?
<pips1> LaserJock: what do you mean by -devel ? IRC or ML?
<stgraber> ML I think
<pips1> Im not even subscribed to ubuntu-devel ML
<LaserJock> ML
 * LaserJock smacks pips1 
<LaserJock> ;-)
<LaserJock> pips1: well, the addon cd will become the real Edubuntu CD
<LaserJock> I haven't added any new apps yet
<LaserJock> I'd like to get a few if I have time
<LaserJock> but I don't even know how much space we have, etc.
<pips1> ic
 * pips1 reads https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation and is amazed
<pips1> last edited by DanielHolbach2
<pips1> interesting
<stgraber> My big concern at the moment is that Alpha4 is next week and we don't have the "Edubuntu as an add-on to ubuntu" part done
<pips1> right!
<pips1> did you talk to ogra about this?
<stgraber> It's LTS so we really need to have something that works perfectly, but for that we need something to test :)
<stgraber> Last I heard from him he had LTSP integrated in Ubuntu which you can install by passing an extra parameter at the installer boot
<LaserJock> I think it's supposed to be done for the sprint
<stgraber> I don't really know the status of the add-on itself though
<pips1> stgraber: i see your point... Alpha 4 is the last milestone before the feature freeze, so it would be good to get minimal testing done if the edubuntu cd works... :-/
<stgraber> yes
<pips1> since you are up-to-date and in touch with ogra on IRC, I'm sure you'll be able to catch the first daily with the working edubuntu cd...
<pips1> but I read on the mailing list that someone was testing milestone releases... that person won't "catch" some random daily...
<stgraber> yes, I'm also waiting for it so I can update our current Edubuntu testcase (which is still about the add-on and server CD)
<Goosemoose> hi guys , anyone know if the active directory package that's going into hardy is done?
#edubuntu 2008-01-24
<inoex135> hi all
<inoex135> i want to ask some tips how to increase the speed of my ltsp
<inoex135> i use amd 64 bit with 1 Gb memory and 5 client
<ogra> 1gig is pretty low for 5 clients with full desktop at the same time
<inoex135> ogra, but i read in the requirement
<ogra> (depending on what your users do indeed )
<inoex135> edubuntu just need 128 Mb for each user
<ogra> well, its 128M x number of clients + 256M for the server
<ogra> whats slow for you ?
<inoex135> yesterday all of the client run tuxmath :D
<inoex135> and the tuxmath run so slowly :((
<ogra> yeah, thats a design issue of tuxmath ...
<inoex135> i don't know, is it right that when the users run same aplications will make the system run slowly?
<inoex135> because when they run different aplication, the system run faster
<ogra> is that with a certain application ?
<ogra> or with all of them
<inoex135> not with office
<inoex135> because i implement in school
<inoex135> the students just use tuxmath and some game like chess
<stgraber> RichEd-1: Good news from iTalc, italc's author contacted me by jabber and really seems to want to help debugging it
<laga> ogra: i think i have found a workaround for the unionfs nfs bugs. create a ext2 image on the nfs share and mount that. haven't tried it yet, though :)
<ogra> laga, well, then you can as well take squashfs and nbd :)
<ogra> plus ext3 image for the writable pieces
<ogra> (i wouldnt use ext2 )
<laga> yes, that's the plan. or do you mean i should use nbd for the writable pieces as well? that's a bit more complicated because you can't easily create new images then
<laga> i'd ideally use one image per client
<laga> ogra: ext3 sounds good as well
<ogra> have a look at nbdswapd
<ogra> it creates the swap files/images on the fly
<laga> yes, i've already done that. i don't see how i can easily create a relation between one specific client and its own overlay
<laga> (overlay == cow directory)
<ogra> you got the ip
<laga> ip does not work well in DHCP environments
<ogra> but that can change indeed
<laga> right now, i use the mac address
<laga> which should work pretty well
<ogra> usually one client gets the same ip all the time
<laga> still not reliable enough :/
<ogra> unless you have more clients than IPs
<ogra> right, you cant rely on it
<laga> i wonder if nbdswapd even "sees" the ip address of the client since it's run from inetd
<laga> ogra: daniel holbach posted  i need to go through the usual sponsor ship process for getting my patches included into ubuntu. do you still plan on applying them or should i do was i was told?
<ogra> laga, you dont i clearified that
<ogra> he just goes blindly over all bugs that have patches attached
<laga> ogra: great.
<ogra> the locales patch will be in the next upload ...
<laga> ogra: it looks like i'll get a proper unionfs patch as well.
<laga> <- happy. :)
<ogra> :)
<laga> ogra: do you want the other patches in one big patch or broken into several smaller patches?
<ogra> depends how big that big one is
<laga> good answer. i'll try to go easy on you ;)
<ogra> sorry, but i have to leave now for a company dinner ...
<ogra> ets talk about the other one tomorrow
<laga> have a nice night
<Goosemoose> hi guys, has the addon for hardy been finished to enable the simple authentication against an AD domain?
<Delcastanher> Hello!
<Delcastanher> I need some help with LTSP
<Delcastanher> anyone can help me?
<laga> just ask a question :)
<Delcastanher> is it possible to use an USB Printer on thin client?
<Delcastanher> im googling it all day :P
<Delcastanher> knock knock?
<laga> relax.
<laga> if someone has an answer, they will answer
<johnny> i assume it should work in theory
<johnny> never tried tho
<Delcastanher> i read that its possible... but looks like it needs the lp_server package
<Delcastanher> and it package is not in repository
<johnny> lp_server.. i've never even heard of that
<johnny> i figured cups would take care of it
<johnny> just like it does for everything else printer related
<Delcastanher> as i read, the server's cups will access the client's printer... but the client needs the lp_server running
<Delcastanher> look:
<Delcastanher> http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/docs/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN696
<johnny> edubuntu doesn't use ltsp 4
<johnny> in any recent release
<johnny> afaik
<johnny> you can't really count on any ltsp 4 docs
<Delcastanher> but i didnt find anything about ltsp printing at ubuntu docs, or wiki...
<johnny> well.. that is a problem for sure
<johnny> but you still can't use ltsp 4 docs in any case
<johnny> the design is totally different
<Delcastanher> yes... i think i will google everything again...
<Delcastanher> i found something now: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html#id529611
<johnny> yeah.. the handbook is good
<Delcastanher> but i think that i tried it before... but ok... i will try again :)
<johnny> if it doesn't work.. check the bugs on launchpad
<Delcastanher> thank you! i will reboot my thin client now.
<Delcastanher> wish me luck :D
<Delcastanher> you are right
<Delcastanher> ltsp 5 is not 4.1
<Delcastanher> :)
<Delcastanher> the only thing i change: use mac address between [ ] instead use ip or machine name...
<Delcastanher> now is working
<LaserJock> great
<Delcastanher> thank you very much
<Delcastanher> and good night (it is night in Brazil) :P
<johnny> night
#edubuntu 2008-01-25
<juliux> RichEd-1, are this logos still the right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLogo?highlight=%28logo%29%7C%28edubuntu%29
<RichEd> hi juliux
<RichEd> chceking now
<RichEd> *checking
<juliux> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=EdubuntuLogo.eps
<RichEd> juliux: should be as far as I know
<juliux> ok
<juliux> then i can send this to the printer for the mugs;)
<juliux> RichEd, 300 edubuntu mugs are now on there long way to the german locoteam
<RichEd> :)
<sakhi> Hi, where can I download the the educational apps in edubuntu?
<RichEd> sakhi: please clarify a bit
<RichEd> do you have edubuntu installed ?
<RichEd> or do you want to add edu apps to ubuntu
<sakhi> RichEd: Hi,
<RichEd> hi
<sakhi> I have edubuntu installed
<RichEd> okay ... so now you will have some education apps installed by default ... on the menu options [Education] & [Games]
<RichEd> To see what else is (1) available from the Ubuntu repositories and (2) tested for your Edubuntu installation version ...
<RichEd> [Applications]
<RichEd> [[Add/Remove]]
<RichEd> Look in the catagory education
<RichEd> To see more than just the supported & non commercial apps, select the two checkboxes
<RichEd> --
<sakhi> ok, thanks
<RichEd> note that any application you install from there will 1. work 2. be supported with automatic updates & security & patches etc. when your machine checks the repositories every time you connect to the internet
<sakhi> ok, lets say I customised edubuntu and now I need to take that customisation and add it on a CD for installation.
<sakhi> RichEd: basically I need to be able to put the same customisation to any other PC with Edubuntu.
<RichEd> sakhi: if the machines are all the same, you can do a ghost type disk cloning using a opensource ghost
<RichEd> if not, there is a way to build the setup you have just created for auto-install on many machines ...
<RichEd> let me try to dig out the info for you
<sakhi> RichEd: Can you please forward me you e-mail address.
<sakhi> sakhi7@gmail.com
<RichEd> sakhi: done
<RichEd> back in 5 mins
<sakhi> thanks
<DJ_Danni> Hello
#edubuntu 2008-01-26
<han`> how come gbrainy isn't a part of edubuntu, seems like a good program for it
<han`> also, is there a distro out there that is like super kid friendly?  ie big buttons and stuff so a kid can navigate the OS?
<LaserJock> han`: what is gbrainy?
<pygi> LaserJock, new app on the block, C#
<pygi> game of logic
<LaserJock> han`: I think other than Edubuntu, perhaps OLPCs Sugar interface is the most kid-friendly
<pygi> and EEE PC's interface perhaps
<laga> i dont think the EEE PC one is open source
<pygi> han`, I dont think gbrainy was out in time for gutsy
<LaserJock> isn't EEEPC just a standard linux interface?
<pygi> LaserJock, nop, not really
<LaserJock> I thought they just slapped a distro on there, hmm
<han`> LaserJock, gbrainy is a set of logic, memory, # puzzles
<han`> oh yeah, the eee pc is a good idea
<pygi> LaserJock, sec
<han`> probably a development version or something
<pygi> http://picasaweb.google.hr/lh/searchbrowse?q=EEEPC+screenshots&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wq#1
<han`> LaserJock, it looks like gbrainy isn't even in the package manager, but i just installed it on edubuntu using the ubuntu package and it works well
<han`> it's a little tough for kids, maybe high school kids+
<pygi> han`, as I told you ... it wasnt out before gutsy me thinks :)
<LaserJock> well, it's not even in hardy
<LaserJock> han`: a package has to be in the archives before we ship it ;-)
<han`> yeah ok, well consider it a suggestion then :)
<LaserJock> thanks for the suggestion :-)
<LaserJock> we could use some newer apps
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what the current situation is with the disks and how much room we'll have
<han`> it's fairly polished, but high difficulty
<han`> it is like the hardest questions on the math SAT i would say, in terms of difficulty
<LaserJock> I hope it's quite a bit and we can add lots of good packages
<pygi> laga, they use xandros distribution
<LaserJock> han`: excellent
<laga> pygi: yes, the commercial version.
<laga> their user interface is still not OSS
<pygi> laga, perhaps ... but hopefully it'll become soon
<laga> true
<LaserJock> meh
<pygi> what? :P
<LaserJock> I don't really care
<han`> i'm looking at the OLPC site
<LaserJock> it's an interesting look interface, but it's nothing spectacular
<pygi> :P
<LaserJock> it's mostly just big icons
<LaserJock> the top bar may be interesting, but I bet most of the "look" is due to having a low-res screen
<han`> i'm thinking that i could get "Sugar" running on a linux install, which is the OLPC environment
<LaserJock> han`: I believe we have an emulator
<LaserJock> hmm, or maybe it's just in a PPA
 * pygi thinks there are sugar packages
<pygi> han`, Sugar *is* build on top of fedora-like linux
<han`> reading sugar on ubuntu linux from the olpc wiki
<LaserJock> ah, here we go: https://launchpad.net/~jani/+archive
<han`> yep i'm addingithat to my sources
<han`> heh, well i'll see how this goes, running emulated sugar inside a virtualized edubuntu on a mac lol
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> vmware fusion?
<han`> yeah
<han`> trying it out
<han`> so the emulator just seems to start up x...
<LaserJock> han`: you might want to read http://janimo.blogspot.com/search/label/en
<han`> got it working
<han`> trippy i see people in my neighborhood
<han`> didn't expect the network stuff to work
#edubuntu 2008-01-27
<malamsu> hi all
<malamsu> i want to share some files with windows xp using ad-hoc. does any one know?
<wwwojcieh> hello, any teacher here ??
<markvandenborre> anyone around here with basic gtk and gstreamer skills?
<pygi> just ask
<markvandenborre> pygi: http://blog.markvdb.be/2008/01/oh-flying-spaghetti-monster-music.html
<markvandenborre> don't be distracted by the url, it's actually on topic
<pygi> haha :)
#edubuntu 2009-01-19
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> just wondering how things are going toward using sugar and ejabberd for collaboration between thin clients
<nothingman> I read nubae's howto on both, but I don't know how to get there from here
 * nothingman is wondering which would be better for virtualization on fat clients, virtualbox ose or qemu
<LaserJock> hmm, might depend on what you're doing
<LaserJock> why are you wanting to do it on the client?
<nubae> hey LaserJock
<nubae> someone regressed your sugar commit
<LaserJock> "regressed"?
<nubae> I've been battling with the damn thing for over 2 hours now, and realised that a new package is out, which once again breaks browse!
<LaserJock> ah
<nubae> it at least seems that way
<LaserJock> is that on Intrepid?
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> and jaunty
<nubae> well jaunty has bigger problems, depends on python-xpcom 1.9, which isn't packaged yet
<nubae> do u have a ppa with your package?
<LaserJock> well, kinda
<LaserJock> anybody with a Launchpad account has a PPA available
<nubae> I'm happy with just the 2 debs :-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder what we can do about this
<nubae> I need a fix in the next 30 minutes... so I think just overwriting with .debs is my option at this point
<LaserJock> well, you could try building your own .deb
<nothingman> LaserJock: because my servers are ram-maxed towers
<LaserJock> nothingman: ah, and why do you need virtualization?
<LaserJock> nubae: actually, I think you might be able to just symlink it for now
<nothingman> well, it would be nice to take these laptops without HDs, but *with* XP licenses, and boot whatever so the students can use all the software that's accumulated over the last decade or so
<LaserJock> I see
<LaserJock> I wonder how well that'd work
<nothingman> yeah
<nubae> u released 0.4.6-0ubuntu2 right?
<nothingman> we got to try the Fiddlehead for a bit, and that was nifty
<nothingman> it's a Linux distro with VirtualBox and multiseat set up so that it's easy to add video cards and usb peripherals to make more seats and boot any x86 OS
<nothingman> and I thought: why not try it with ltsp?
<nothingman> after all, I would have a dedicated CPU for each instance of Vbox+OS
 * LaserJock kicks rmadison
<LaserJock> nubae: the "fixed" version is 0.4.6-0ubuntu2.1
<LaserJock> which hasn't been released yet
<nothingman> I mean, a gig of ram for one fiddlehead server with two seats runs XP pretty well
<nubae> well its not in -proposed anymore then
<LaserJock> nubae: it should be in -proposed
<nubae> its not
<LaserJock> hmmm, odd
<nubae> ah wait, I have python-hulahop_0.4.6-0ubuntu3~ppa1_i386.deb
<LaserJock> ah
<nubae> apt-cache show gives all the instances of a package
<nubae> not just the latest installed
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> you can look at apt-cache policy as well
<nubae> ah nice one...
<nubae> well got 2.1 installed on my laptop and browse does not work
<nubae> I dont get it
<LaserJock> do you have /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.5/ ?
<nubae> 0.3
<LaserJock> oh, that's not right
<nubae> whats the package name?
<nubae> strange cause I installed sugar*
<LaserJock> xulrunner-1.9
<LaserJock> its 0.3 for Intrepid but 0.5 for intrepid-updates
<nubae> strange it didnt install
<LaserJock> can you get it?
<nubae> yep... that fixed it, thanks LaserJock, u save my ass :-)
<LaserJock> that's why they pay me the big bucks :-)
<LaserJock> btw, it sounds like some pretty big things are going to be happening in KDE for education
<calimer> :D
<calimer> that is good news!
<calimer> I wanted put an ubuntu distro on my nix hd but I might as well just wait for jaunty
<LaserJock> Aaron Seigo seems to be really taking education serious
<LaserJock> we had a fairly lengthy chat today about what KDE can do for educators and how we can better link educators and developers
<LaserJock> I told him I really would like to see effort on user management and settings control
<nubae> nice
<LaserJock> so perhaps kiosktool will get some revamping, amongst other things
<LaserJock> anyway, I'll be trying to get input from educators and school IT people on what they need
<LaserJock> and hopefully we can translate that into directing some KDE efforts upstream
<stgraber> having KDE4 to actually work on LTSP would be cool ltoo :)
<stgraber> I believe someone at Revolution Linux sent Aaron an email about that
<LaserJock> stgraber: what's wrong with it?
<stgraber> first session open time takes over 30s because of a khotkey bug, ltspfs (usb key, cdrom, ...) doesn't work because kde4 doesn't scan /media/*/* for new directories, things like switch user/reboot/shutdown/sleep/hibernate are present even when not possible
<stgraber> KDE4 doesn't use pulseaudio when PULSE_SERVER is set
<stgraber> moving to a large resolution to a small resolution doesn't resize the panel, ...
<LaserJock> stgraber: ah great, good to know
<LaserJock> stgraber: that'll be important to bring up
<stgraber> oh and my favorite, all windows appear as random video junk and then are refreshed a few ms later with the actual content
<stgraber> and there is also no way to turn these plasmoids off so when you don't have hardware accelaration it just does it with software rendering
<stgraber> so moving the desktop plasmoid takes "just" 100Mb/s :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<stgraber> (and makes low-cost thin clients like geodes to crash)
<servidor> tem alguem que fale em portugues?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> *yawn*.  good morning
<sbalneav> Morning!
<a931bw> ÐÐ° ÑÑÐ¾,
<a931bw> !edubuntu
<ubottu> Edubuntu is an Ubuntu derivative aimed at schools and educational institutions. For more info, see http://www.edubuntu.org
<a931bw> ÐÐ¾Ð¼Ð¾Ð³ÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ðµ?
<sbalneav> I don't think anyone here speaks russian.
<Lns> Too bad there's no bot scripts that does auto translation via babelfish or something for IRC
<sbalneav> a931bw: ÐÐ¸ÐºÑÐ¾ Ð·Ð´ÐµÑÑ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÐ¸Ñ ÑÑÑÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾
<sbalneav> That's from babelfish
<Lns> lol...nm
<sbalneav> Yeah, but I manually translated it.
<a931bw> ÐÑÐ¾Ð¼Ð°Ð·Ð°Ð»
<a931bw> sorry
<sbalneav> An interesting meme in #ltsp is "do the needful", which is how babelfish translates "help me please" in either Portugese or Spanish.  So people coming into #ltsp and using babelfish for translation often "say" this.
<sbalneav> So it's become a bit of a "joke phrase" within the LTSP community.
<sbalneav> I.e. "yeah, lets fix this bug, so we can 'do the needful'"... or "Could you do the needful, and pass me the steak sauce", etc.
<sbalneav> That, and one of the most famous phrases in LTSP: "what means 'LTSP rocks'?"
<Lns> sbalneav: do the needful and tell me what 'LTSP rocks' mean pls
<sbalneav> Someone was directed to the LTSP mailing list, who wasn't an english speaker, and came backm after reading a post where someone said 'LTSP rocks!', and asked that in the channel.
<alkisg> LTSP ÑÐºÐ°Ð»Ñ!
<sbalneav> So, it's become another "in joke" within LTSP.
<Lns> and it made it into the scripts too, heh
<sbalneav> As in: "what means 'Lns rocks'?" etc.
<sbalneav> Two little bits of LTSP apocrophia there.
<Lns> hehe, I'm so in with the ltsp crowd now... being cool, hangin out by the stick...
<sbalneav> Whoops, I should have spelled that Apocrypha
<alkisg> Or, Î±ÏÏÎºÏÏÏÎ± (since we're talking about internationalization... :))
<sbalneav> Yeah, now you know the secret phrases and handshakes, all you need to do is cultivate a love of beer and lobster, and you're in like flynn
<alkisg> Heh... lets see how that lobster logo fares
<sbalneav> LTSP has always been more about fun than code.  Thank heavens.
<Lns> Well I already love beer and lobster, so I guess I need my membership card ;)
<sbalneav> I actually like to think LTSP is one of the last "big" (in terms of number of people using it) Free Software project that's sort of stayed true to it's roots.  No big flashy .org running it, no non profit, no paid spokesperson, etc.  Just a rag-tag bunch of misfits having a good time.
<Lns> sbalneav: that's why I think I like it so much too (besides the technology keeps to the roots of X and expands on it)
<Lns> it seems that nobody wants to reinvent the wheel so to speak, but keep to the 'best practices' of coding, etc.. which is really nice, especially for someone just getting into programming, etc.
<Lns> That's why I love linux so much.. there are tools available that do pretty much everything, you just need to know how to tie them all together...LTSP is the perfect example of doing this
<LaserJock> afternoon all
<LaserJock> hi dgroos
<Lns> hey LaserJock
<dgroos> hi LaserJock
<dgroos> also, hi Lns
<LaserJock> hi Baby
<Lns> hey dgroos
 * Ahmuck just waves to everyone
<LaserJock> yeah
<Lns> ditto
<dgroos> Lns: you're Jordan, yeah?
<nubae> greets
<LaserJock> dgroos: yeah, we have 2 of them and our nicks both start with "L" :-)
<Lns> dgroos: yep, one of em ;)
<LaserJock> and actually we don't live that far away either, very odd ;-)
<Baby> hi!! :)
<dgroos> Lns: recall that I sent you an e-mail a week ago thinking you were the Jordan of Edubuntu-menus?
<Lns> LaserJock: it's a sign.. we must create a directional 802.11 network between us!
<dgroos> Small world!
<Lns> dgroos: yes! That's actually LaserJock
<nubae> Lns: u should change your nick to beamgeek
<dgroos> Lns: right!  I figured that out a few days ago on this very channel.
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> nubae: umm, no. =p
<Lns> maybe /nick TheRealJordan =p
<LaserJock> heh
<dgroos> LaserJock: That's been quite a ride since the publishing of your last blog entry.  From getting a hit or few a day, I all of a sudden got 300 over 4 days.
<LaserJock> dgroos: yeah, digg will do that
<LaserJock> I got around 5k I think
<dgroos> Got me to wanting to improve the looks: http://groosd.blogspot.com
<dgroos> You also got 31 comments!
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> funny how the relation of readers to commenters is about 500:1
<nubae> well maybe 300:1
<dgroos> I've spent my flex time these last few days trying to update my blog.  I also got inspired to update the (very) stale Ubuntu project pages.
<LaserJock> 226:1 for me
<Lns> dgroos: which ubuntu project pages are you updating?
<dgroos> Lns: Hmmm maybe I should rephrase that and say that's I updated MY project pages on the Ubuntu wiki :-)
<dgroos> For example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ManageGroups
<Ahmuck> i've a question about ubuntu.  there is so much documentation out there, community pages, etc. that i find it impossible to wade throught he mess sometimes
<Lns> Ahmuck: agreed
<nubae> I had a good talk with education specialists and teachers today...
<Lns> dgroos: nice
<nubae> Its so important to get a view from them, as it is SO different from what developers implement
<Ahmuck> nubae: agreed
<nubae> the main thing they want is good admin parts to activities
<LaserJock> nubae: that's precisely what aseigo of KDE wants
<nubae> and the possibility of collaboration
<dgroos> Lns: thanks. here's another: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ComputerLab
<Ahmuck> i've found that many times devs have a disconnect between the people they think they are helping, and then get upset when the users speak up
<nubae> I spent 6 hours listening to their ideas
<nubae> I'll be writing it up... but it was very much about sugar and collaboration
<Lns> nubae: the school techs I've talked with seem very excited about me implementing a simple wiki for teachers to use for central bookmarks, content for students, etc.
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: it can depend a lot from project to project
<nubae> though everyone agreed, sugar is not ready yet
<dgroos> nubae: who were these educators/teachers?
<Ahmuck> nubae: about sugar and collaboration because that's what your focused on?
<nubae> yeah, they really want simplicity with working activities before anything
<Lns> nubae: Please post to the list when you get it written up...i'm sure it would be pure gold
<nubae> they spoke about maths activities that could be customised per student
<nubae> where teh teacher could collect data at teh end of the lesson in an admin panel
<nubae> and being able to customise the content per class too
<nubae> it really made a lot of sense
<nubae> but yeah I'll write it up and post to the list
<Lns> nubae: sounds like a job for a nice little central db backend..
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> Ahmuck: no, just that thats what teachers are interested in
<nubae> they dont want complex elaborate activities
<nubae> they want the real simple stuff, but to be managable and customisable
<dgroos> Might it not be great to put these ideas on the edubuntu/ubuntu wiki?  That would allow a bit of a discussion.  sort of.
<nubae> so THEY choose how to present it to the class
<LaserJock> well, we need to be somewhat careful with how we do all this
<LaserJock> we've already got waaaaay to many wiki pages to maintain
<LaserJock> *too
<LaserJock> idea!
<nubae> another really simple idea for example, was a typing tutor, but one where they compete with each other to type a phrase the fastest, compared to the teacher say... and tehn output the results in a common report
<nubae> its real simple stuff to implement
<LaserJock> we need to maybe use brainstorm
<nubae> yeah, especially now, where we have a lot of data from different places
<nubae> maybe set up a set of specs
<LaserJock> brainstorm has a category for Edubuntu (only has 1 idea in it right now) and a Education category
<LaserJock> beautiful, we don't even need to create anything
<nubae> LaserJock: where is it?
<Ahmuck> i've always held the postition that simple apps don't get in the way of learning
<nubae> url
<LaserJock> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<nubae> right, like multiplication tables... that can be customised based on what they already know, or which student is at what level...
<LaserJock> and then http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/education/
<nubae> its about using computers to help the existing learning process
<nubae> ok, bookmarked both locations
<LaserJock> yeah, this is making some good sense here
<nubae> the project in location one is also mentioned in location 2
<nubae> so probably better to put the ideas there
<LaserJock> we can even use brainstorm for "please use app X" stuff
<nubae> the other thing they mentioned was that the simplest UIs, like sugar, with no clutter on the screen are the most wanted and best understood by the kids
<nubae> just the basic basic framework and the content
<LaserJock> would depend on the age I guess
<nubae> yes true, we were talking about younger ages
<nubae> from 6-11
<LaserJock> a high school student is likely to want the "adult" interface rather than the "kiddy" version ;-)
<nubae> but even then, from a learning perspective they said that the simpler the interface, the more they learn, as tested
<nubae> u can make something look adult and not cluttered too I suppose
<nubae> and of course a common look and feel across apps
<nubae> thats a difficult one of course
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> even adults work better without a lot of clutter
<LaserJock> the problem is the balance between clutter and useful features
<nubae> yep, its  shame we can't design a common framework for every app creator to use
<nubae> something that has been usability tested by teachers
<LaserJock> that's a nice dream
<LaserJock> the reality is that "usability" can be quite different to different people
<nubae> yeah but right now the people doing the usability are the developers themselves
<nubae> that has to change
<LaserJock> and "common frameworks" can often stifle creativity and just flat out are unlikely in such a diverse "ecosystem"
<LaserJock> no, it doesn't
<LaserJock> developers are mostly great people who care deeply about their users and their programs
<LaserJock> they often don't do a lot of usability testing and so rely on others
<nubae> yes, but they are not connected to their users
<LaserJock> often times they are
<LaserJock> but that's what our job is
<LaserJock> to help them connect
<nubae> sure
<LaserJock> there's a pretty fuzzy line where user and developer meet
<nubae> not user... I'm talking about teacher
<LaserJock> I know lots of developers who are also educators
<nubae> well, the majority are not... for sure...
<nubae> at least not for the sugar activities
<LaserJock> well, that's sugar
<nubae> yeah but its common for other apps, since most have been ports to sugar
<LaserJock> of the actual educational apps I know they are mostly done by educators or the "target audience"
<nubae> hmmm
<LaserJock> some aren't heavily involved as much anymore
<nubae> well, I'll write up my findings and we can discuss it more :-)
<LaserJock> but most people write educational apps because they're educators
<nubae> I guess it has to do with the changing of the IT landscape
<LaserJock> I think a lot of educators think developers are very out of touch
<nubae> many apps were written 10 years ago, and didnt think about multiple users and usability
<LaserJock> when in fact they really aren't so much
<nubae> well, I think educators have a point
<LaserJock> why?
<nubae> I really saw what they meant today
<LaserJock> because developers don't make the app the way they want them too?
<nubae> well for one, they dont allow apps to be customised to different students
<nubae> to allow for a teacher view
<LaserJock> ok, but that says *nothing* about the developer
<nubae> these are simple things, which all apps should really have
<LaserJock> most of the time developers are hacking in their spare time to get something vaguely usable
<nubae> I'm just saying a dev doesnt think like an educator
<LaserJock> sure they do
<sbalneav> nubae: Gnome, I know for sure, hires "usability" consultants to review and make suggestions
<LaserJock> the problem is that it's very very difficult to give everybody everything
<nubae> I'm not talking about gnome, I'm talking about education apps
<LaserJock> so you make due with what you can get and hope to build from there
<LaserJock> nubae: but many of the edu apps are a part of the Gnome landscape
<LaserJock> also take KDE Edu, an official core part of KDE
<nubae> really? which edu app is actually part of the gnome core?
<sbalneav> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ut1_report/report_main.html
<nubae> kde, I agree
<LaserJock> nubae: I didn't say gnome core
<LaserJock> but gcompris, for instance, is hosted and supported by Gnome
<nubae> kde is much more involved in edu
<LaserJock> but my point is
<LaserJock> just because an app isn't what you want it to be doesn't mean the devs are stupid or out of touch
<nubae> yeah well I presented gcompris today... and the immediate questions were, where can I customise the activities, store students scores, change layouts
<nubae> I didnt say they are stupid
<nubae> I said they think differently
<LaserJock> I know from first hand experience that often times you have to code what you can for today
<nubae> and thats great
<LaserJock> right, and I don't think that's they case with most edu apps at all
<nubae> I am in no way saying devs do a bad job
<nubae> I'm saying they could do with more input from teachers
<LaserJock> I think most edu app devs do think like educators because they *are* educators often enough
<LaserJock> for sure
<sbalneav> Why aren't the teachers providing input, then?
<nubae> well, thats what we're trying to change
<LaserJock> the problem I'm afraid of is that people will think that input is all that is needed
<LaserJock> input is only part of the problem
<nubae> they believe devs are unapproachable I suppose, I'm not really sure what the answer to that question is
<LaserJock> the other part, the bigger part, is getting resources (hands and minds) to get things implemented
<nubae> anyway, the teachers and educators I spoke to today asked how they could get involved
<LaserJock> that's great
<nubae> and that is where we can help them
<LaserJock> yes, exactly
<nubae> so I told them mailing lists are the way to go
<LaserJock> that's exactly what KDE is looking for
<sbalneav> nubae: Devs have provided: 1) Mailing lists, 2) irc channels, 3) wiki pages 4) bug reporting sites 5) conferences to show up at, and 6) in some cases (mine, anyway) *phone numbers* to phone.
<LaserJock> the particular area that needs help is the non-educational app area
<nubae> sbalneav: I'm not arguing against that, I know, and I have offered the same level of support
<LaserJock> as you're not likely to find many educators working on the core desktop
<nubae> but in many cases these guys don't even know what a mailing list is
<nubae> so they gradually need to step into the ballgame...
<nubae> having face meets, for example works...
<nubae> and then get them on mailing lists and explain all the different methods of support
<sbalneav> We've had educators at edubuntu conferences.
<LaserJock> brainstorm could really help
<nubae> yeah, that of course is great
<sbalneav> I talked PERSONALLY with one of them, asked her for some input.
<sbalneav> I was told "too busy"
<nubae> well, thats one... I was given AMAZING input today... 6 hours worth of great feedback, and I'll write it up so we can take a look at how it can help
<sbalneav> I'm not blaming educators, BTW, but saying "devs need to be more in touch with educators" is a two way street.
<nubae> absolutely
<LaserJock> there is that development bottleneck
<LaserJock> it's so much easier to think of ideas than to implement them ;-)
<sbalneav> Right
<dgroos> And, how does one decide which to focus on?
<sbalneav> you can have all the face-to-faces you want, but at the end of the day, SOMEONE's got to be willing to churn out some code.
<nubae> dgroos: we need to focus on both
<LaserJock> dgroos: you mean from the ideas we get?
<nubae> well, these guys are willing to pay devs to get it done
<nubae> and that to me showed they really wanted to commit
<nubae> that and they wanted to know where they could communicate their ideas
<LaserJock> right so what we need is somebody on this end to catch
<dgroos> LaserJock:  I mean,  "for the lack of a nail the battle was lost"
<nubae> anyway, I came away with a very positive feeling... these teachers and educators were the ones doing pedagogical research
<nubae> basically this is a school here that is a testbed for teaching ideas and then implements in the rest of teh country
<sbalneav> nubae: How much?  My current salary's 75k cdn/year.
<nubae> I dont know if they have that over there
<nubae> but they must
<dgroos> nubae: can you say who these educators were?
<nubae> sbalneav: I'm pretty sure the budgets here are no different than the budgets over there
<dgroos> I mean, what city? What school? Affiliated with some university a research program?
<nubae> I just explained... they were teachers that are researching in a practical environment methods of teaching that are then to be implemented in the rest of the country by the government
<nubae> Graz, Austria, affiliated with the TU Graz
<nubae> technical university of graz
<nubae> called the pedagogiches hochschule
<nubae> they are trying to do what they can in terms of funding and paving the way forwards, and I for one, would like to make that easy for them
<dgroos> Excellent.
<LaserJock> so I think brainstorm.ubuntu.com/education is a great place to send people
<nubae> would be great if there was a place a bit more upstream
<nubae> not so linked to just ubuntu
<nubae> but I guess the infrastructure is already in place here...
<LaserJock> well
<dgroos> Is there some place that serves to coordinate information--ie think systematically about advancing edubuntu?
<LaserJock> the problem is then you have a bunch of upstreams
<LaserJock> all with different communication channels, etc.
<nubae> yeah maybe from here we can send it upstream
<dgroos> That for me has been confusing...
<LaserJock> nubae: exactly
<LaserJock> we gotta "filter" and send upstream
<LaserJock> dgroos: hmm, describe a bit more what you mean
<LaserJock> do you mean like how do we get things done?
<nubae> upstream = gnome /kde/sugar, and upstream from that, the apps themselves
<dgroos> To successfully implement edubuntu in a class you need to address different groups of tasks.  for example
<LaserJock> nubae: yup, we have probably something around 30 different upstreams just for the stuff in Main
<dgroos> get hardware running
<dgroos> get LAN/Server set up and working
<sbalneav> dgroos: Well, the edubuntu wiki, or probably even more accurately, the edubuntu-devel mailing list.
<sbalneav> dgroos: There is an edubuntu handbook, which I, and others, have put in work on, and are still working on.
<nubae> dgroos: well, that has actually been taken care of quite well, the hardware maintenance side, and OS side... its the higher layers that are bit more lacking in terms of communication
<dgroos> get to know general software such as sabayon (I'm wishing) and iTalc
<dgroos> figure out how to best pedagogically use this stuff--
<nubae> and I'm not attacking devs, as much as it might sound like that... I'm just emphasising the need for the people in the middle... the communicators... us
<LaserJock> dgroos: in some sense from my end it's a bit like getting the cart before the horse
<Ahmuck> i'm an adult and sometimes the kids version of a desktop is just what i need during a stresfull day:
<dgroos> Sometimes, the job can seem overwhelming (I'm using spare time and have been working at getting thisk working for a few months--remember, I'm quite a Linux newbie
<LaserJock> I haven't thought much on how to document the pedagogical us of sabayon because it's completely broken :-)
<nubae> case in point
<LaserJock> my primary concern is that every release we are quite close to *not* having a release
<LaserJock> it's just the nature of things
<sbalneav> Which I'm desperately trying to fix because upstreams DOA
<nubae> sbalneav: very cool... its a highly sought after app
<LaserJock> and it's not that I/we don't care, we just have to prioritize our effort
<sbalneav> Well sure it is.
<sbalneav> But, to beat that horse a bit further...
<sbalneav> We can all have IDEAS about sabayon, and TALK about sabayon, and write down INFORMATION about sabayon, and consult with EDUCATORS about sabayon...
<sbalneav> but until some one like me scrapes together the time to FIX sabayon, it don't mean squat.
<sbalneav> Welcome to Free Software
<dgroos> Right.
<sbalneav> Lots of ideas, few coders.
<LaserJock> and it's not even strictly coders
<LaserJock> we certainly need them
<dgroos> And that's my point about having some central strategy to help people decide where to put their limited time.
<LaserJock> but a lot of packaging work can be done without having programming knowledge
<LaserJock> we also need artists, doc writers, website maintainers, support people, etc.
<dgroos> and I apologize if it's out there and I don't know about it...
<LaserJock> but bottom line we need to be moving forward
<nubae> education as a whole needs people from all fields, and yes, we are all aware things tend to be done for free in this area, but what can we do about that?
<LaserJock> dgroos: no, I think you make a good point
<LaserJock> dgroos: I think this might help a little https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<LaserJock> nubae: well, I personally think we need to grow Edubuntu developers
<dgroos> I'll check it now!  is this the one you referred to in your blog post about the last meeting?  If so that's right, I saw it and it is good.
<nubae> oh nice, thats grown...
<LaserJock> we need to get people willing to learn how to package
<nubae> LaserJock: u said it well some time ago... a edubuntu contributor today, could be a developer tomorrow
<LaserJock> we need people who are willing to take a little time to learn how to do a patch
<nubae> are the launchpad groups under your control yet?
<LaserJock> right now I'm just looking for contributors
<LaserJock> well, I created the edubuntu-dev LP team
<LaserJock> but the other teams are going to take some work
<LaserJock> IMO, we need to first figure out the Edubuntu Council
<dgroos> Yes, great page (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument)
<LaserJock> dgroos: it's still not finished (my bad) but getting there
<LaserJock> dgroos: does that sort of help?
<dgroos> Yes--I'd like to contribute to it.  Is that permitted?
<LaserJock> we really need to get some Edubuntu Members, it's almost just the Edubuntu Council right now :/
<nubae> dgroos: its encouraged...
<LaserJock> dgroos: how about we discuss it here
<dgroos> LaserJock: sure
<dgroos> It's very nicely organized. And very comprehensive.
<nubae> tomorrow I have another meeting, this time with a highschool, so older students... are there any questions u can think of that I should ask?
<LaserJock> are they already using Linux at all?
<nubae> no, but they use some FOSS like moodle
<nubae> so they are open and interested in Linux
<nubae> I will not be presenting sugar to them, just edubuntu and ltsp
<LaserJock> I'm fairly interested in what apps they do use, and what their biggest struggles are with their current setup
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> ok, thats a good point, so what win apps they currently use for education?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'd like to see how well we can match what they're using
<dgroos> LaserJock: Looking at the contents overview -- the structure of the document that on the upper right hand side of the page...
<LaserJock> one specific question I have is if they would find it useful if they could run the same apps at home
<nubae> cool... I dont know how much sense it makes to present the apps, but I'd like to choose a couple
<nubae> I think I know the answer to that one, it would be yes...
<dgroos> LaserJock: I'm thinking of sections 1, 2 and 3 as part of the strategy document.
<nubae> I guess the kde-edu suite makes most sense to present, no?
<LaserJock> I've though, for instance, if you made a reasonably easy way to make custom CDs that a highschool teacher could give out
<nubae> or usb sticks so they are persistent
<LaserJock> nubae: for high school? perhaps, depends on what areas
<LaserJock> like there is a lot of great math software available
<LaserJock> marble, step, and kalzium from KDE would be cool to demo
<nubae> well we need one for each of the major subjects...
<LaserJock> that'd be geography, physics, and chemistry
<nubae> cool
<LaserJock> I never cared much for english so I don't know there ;-)
<dgroos> LaserJock: 4, 5 and 6 seem to be structural aspects of the organization?
<LaserJock> I guess it wouldn't really be "english" there but languages
<nubae> well its a German school so would be a little irrelevant :-)
<nubae> yah
<LaserJock> dgroos: right yeah, first our strategy and then how we organize ourselves to implement it
<nubae> LaserJock: what else?
<LaserJock> for the math people wxmaxima is pretty cool
<LaserJock> not in Main but a good app
<nubae> I'll install and take a look
<dgroos> LaserJock: could they be on different pages, and connected at a less-detailed view on a higher level page?
<nubae> and other questions to ask them?
<LaserJock> nubae: "wanna do some coding?" ;-)
<dgroos> LaserJock: and thus allow for more expanded detail on strategy?
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> some of these apps pull in a lot of dependencies... 62mb for wxmaxima
<LaserJock> nubae: you want good apps, you need lots of deps ;-)
<nubae> if they said yes to the coding, would there be someone to mentor them?
<nubae> I was asked that today in fact...
<LaserJock> I think we can hook them up
<LaserJock> we can sort of work like an employment agency :-)
<nubae> heh
<LaserJock> if people want to do packaging I'm happy to help with that
<LaserJock> but as far as coding on apps I'm not in a place where I can do that directly
<LaserJock> but I know lots and lots of people :-)
<nubae> maybe if we could document that, list of coding mentors
<LaserJock> dgroos: I think we could possibly do that if the strategy detail got to be too much
<LaserJock> dgroos: at this point I'm trying to keep it fairly non-detailed because I'm trying to give an overview
<LaserJock> dgroos: one option might be to create very detailed pages for each of the strategy objectives and areas of focus separately
<dgroos> Right.  This *is* the overview!
<dgroos> Well, for sure that is needed.  Also, I was thinking of a medium detail page
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm really wary of listing people
<LaserJock> I've been burned a lot by putting people's names on websites/wikis and then the list never gets updated
<nubae> then how can I ask if they want to code?
<LaserJock> I tend to think that point people at mailing lists is the best way to go
<nubae> well, u have my word that I will update it
<nubae> as I am doing with the edubuntu site
<LaserJock> the problem is that I think there's a lot of different places to go
<LaserJock> I'd rather customize a response than just point people to a list
<nubae> well, we should list them... we need to funnel these people to the right places
<LaserJock> what languages do they know, what kinds of apps are they looking for, etc.
<nubae> in this case German
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel would be a good place
<LaserJock> I meant programming languages, but that's a good point as well
<nubae> :-) ok, well I would recommend python to them
<nubae> today they mentioned java to me
<nubae> they said they knew java coders
<LaserJock> ah
<nubae> I told them python is easier and better for linux
<LaserJock> well I'm not a big Java fan but it's better than nothing I guess ;-)
<nubae> there is a java to python converter somewhere is there not?
<LaserJock> well, you can use Jython
<nubae> is that a good way to go?
<nubae> java is the main language they learn here at uni u see
<LaserJock> it's a python interpreter writting in Java, it allows you to sort of mix Java and python
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> Java is huge in education
<LaserJock> stupid Sun ;-)
<nubae> what are most of the apps currently coded in?
<LaserJock> well, I guess depending on what they wanted to do I wouldn't necessarily turn them away from Java
<nubae> python?
<LaserJock> C/C++
<nubae> ah...
<LaserJock> some python
<nubae> well at least its not visual basic
<LaserJock> doesn't matter a ton really as long as they use a Free java
<nubae> that they code in I mean
<LaserJock> they could even use .net
<LaserJock> ;-)
<nubae> I'm just seeing that somewhere in the chain of events they need guidance
<LaserJock> the main thing I'm looking for is some experience with what programming is like
<nubae> on how to do stuff in the right procedure
<LaserJock> me pulls out a "there is no wrong answer"
<nubae> ok, well I will at least get the coders in these groups to email u, ok?
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel is a great resource for people
<LaserJock> it's not the most active presently but if people start emailing stuff like "how can I help" I *will* respond
<LaserJock> and hopefully others will too
<nubae> well, u have to think that these are education guys coming from a total windows background
<nubae> I dont know how comfortable they'll be jumping into the deep end
<LaserJock> it's not so deep though
<LaserJock> we'll be gentle ;-)
<LaserJock> just tell them to send a little intro of themselves and the things they are interested in
<nubae> ok, so edubuntu-devel for contributors, edubuntu-users for those wanting to get involved but not coding/packaging
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel for any getting involved period
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> edubuntu-users is for user support
<LaserJock> I'd like to avoid messing it up too much with "internal" stuff
<LaserJock> "development" == everything that goes into make Edubuntu happen
<nubae> I still think that word -devel in there is frightening
<LaserJock> art, docs, wiki, packaging, etc.
<nubae> wish we had a better word
<LaserJock> I think it's a great word, we just need to get rid of the adversion to it
<LaserJock> it's beautiful that just about *anybody* can come to a -devel list and get lots of help and feel a part of a team
<LaserJock> and they can "own" a bit of the operating system they're using
<dgroos> LaserJock: I never knew that!
<nubae> see ^^
<LaserJock> dgroos: and now you know
<LaserJock> how do you think developers become developers? they weren't born that way
<dgroos> I always figured that dev was for the developers and peons such as myself would waste their time.
<LaserJock> I was just a chemistry student messing around with a chemistry app
<nubae> dgroos most people think that, unfortunately
<LaserJock> then one day I found a bug and thought I'd see if somebody could fix it
<dgroos> By definition, is a developer someone who writes code?
<LaserJock> no, not at all
<nubae> shouldnt be, but its often portrayed as that
<LaserJock> I'm not a programmer and I'm an Ubuntu Core Developer
<dgroos> So, it's like a person that's dedicated to a project...?
<nubae> but I guess I am a developer, u are a developer too... anyone on this channel is a dev really
<LaserJock> traditionally we use it more for the technical bits of things
<dgroos> Is that true in communities such as plone, do you know?
<nubae> LaserJock is definitly more dev than I
<dgroos> or just mainly ubuntu?
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu in general is a bit friendlier and looser about that kind of thing
<LaserJock> it's also very different because we are a distro
<dgroos> Interesting!
<LaserJock> if you take plone the product they are trying to put out is plone
<LaserJock> which is code primarily
<nubae> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developer
<LaserJock> with documenation and some artwork
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu though we're software distributors essentially
<nubae> pretty bad wiki entry actually
<LaserJock> so our "product" is made by putting together, integrating, and polishing other people's products
<nubae> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/developer
<nubae> thats a better one
<nubae> in line with Laserjocks definition
<LaserJock> which has quite a bit more non-programming tasks
<LaserJock> for me personally
<nubae> A person or entity engaged in the creation or improvement of certain classes of products.
<LaserJock> there's sort of different level's of "developer"
<LaserJock> the most specific meaning is anybody who can upload packages to Ubuntu repositories
<LaserJock> that is the MOTU and Core Developers
<nubae> which essentially means we have no sugar developers on board :-)
<nubae> since non of them are motu
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> in that sense ogra, stgraber, nixternal, and myself are the only ones in this room
<LaserJock> oh, and bddebian, can't for get him ;-)
<LaserJock> but I'll also often use "developer" to mean "a dedicated contributor of any type"
<nubae> the elite-developers
<nubae> ;-)
<LaserJock> *but* the most important thing is
<dgroos> MOTU hmmm... means island or to sever in Maori, and island in Tahitian...
<nubae> masters of the universe
<LaserJock> edubuntu-devel is meant for discussing edubuntu's development, not as a "developer-only" clubhouse
<dgroos> nubae: thanks
<LaserJock> dgroos: it comes from a cartoon in the 80's called He-Man
<nubae> they probably have some secret list just for them ;-)
<nixternal> bddebian: counts? boo
<dgroos> I remember that :-)
<nubae> edubuntu-elite-dev
<LaserJock> Ubuntu have very very few secret lists, and those are only because of privacy concerns or embargo's
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Crumb, I'm here at work.... got that link to the bug fix you pointed to yesterday?
<sbalneav> for Sabayon?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: sure, one sec
<sbalneav> I'm on irc.gnome.org in the #sabayon channel now.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=sabayon
<LaserJock> oh, anybody there?
<sbalneav> johnny from #ltsp's there.  He apparently knows federico, and can set up a meeting.
<LaserJock> dgroos: so feel free to join the edubuntu-devel mailing list :-)
<sbalneav> We'll see if we can get the electric boogaloo going.
<nubae> LaserJock: what happened to the discussion about universe apps?
<LaserJock> nubae: what about it?
<nubae> we should make a decision on what to put in it for Jaunty, no?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> give me lists :-)
<nubae> I did
<nubae> or u mean seeded lists
<LaserJock> you gave me lists?
<nubae> u commented on the apps too
<nubae> remember?
<nubae> or u want that cut down based on your comments?
<dgroos> LaserJock: thanks for the invite and I've already joined it, just wasn't sure how I fit in--now I've got a better idea :-)
<LaserJock> nubae: I was just commenting on getting those into Main
<LaserJock> for Universe we can do whatever we want
<nubae> I know, and then I mentioned it was for universe
<LaserJock> so a list of like 10-20 apps per category would be good
<LaserJock> sky's the limit
<nubae> per category, really?
<LaserJock> why not?
<LaserJock> they're freebies
<nubae> well I thought we still have to recommend them somehow
<nubae> cant just put everything on that list, right?
<LaserJock> we can, and we can put a watch on them to try to make sure their updated
<LaserJock> so we can't go super crazy
<nubae> watch?
<LaserJock> but the idea is to fill out the list of apps with stuff that's great and people want, but can't make it into Main
<LaserJock> we can watch their bugs and versions
<LaserJock> make sure they get updated, etc. but not huge amounts of effort
<nubae> ah, k... but then maybe we should grow it... start with something tested in Jaunty
<nubae> ie... programs we have actually openned and looked at
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'm just saying if it's in Universe we can do it
<LaserJock> so have fun
<LaserJock> if edubuntu-devel wants to figure out lists of apps I'll do the technical work
<LaserJock> I just don't have a lot of time to go through *all* the apps myself, you know
<nubae> well I have a feeling it will be me posting the list
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> maybe to start with
<LaserJock> we could maybe send an email to edubuntu-users asking for the apps in universe people use most
<LaserJock> then hash out in edubuntu-devel the actual list
<nubae> yeh I'll write it again and cc -users
<nubae> should I put in sugar apps too?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I think perhaps not
<nubae> k
<LaserJock> since I they sort of already have their own metapackag thing going on
<LaserJock> *since they
<LaserJock> if people want sure it's fairly easy for them to find it
<LaserJock> especially if it shows up in Add/Remove
<nubae> the problem is, half the apps suck or dont work
<nubae> but its still the best choice for kiddies pre 10 years of age
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> hopefully it'll get better with time here
<dgroos> I've got a printing question...
<dgroos> I haven't been able to set up a network printer on my ltsp lan
<dgroos> I tried the #ltsp channel a few nights ago and tried their idea. but I think the problem is at a basic level
<dgroos> I think my network settings have a probably simple error in them--
<dgroos> simple to 'one who knows'...
<dgroos> I've uploaded 9 screen shots of different, and I think applicable screens onto a picasa album
<dgroos> here: http://picasaweb.google.com/djgroos/PrintingIssue?feat=directlink
<dgroos> Can someone help point out a problem with settings?
<dgroos> I brought my server home this weekend so I could actually check things out...
<LaserJock> I gotta run to Walmart, bbiab
<dgroos> LaserJock: thanks again for your support!
<LaserJock> phew, back
<HedgeMage> wb, LaserJock
<HedgeMage> How's life?
<LaserJock> kinda hectic
#edubuntu 2009-01-20
<Lns> Can someone tell me real quick a switch or utility that simply returns the number of packages (if any) that will be upgraded, and exits?
<HedgeMage> Lns: apt-get upgrade -s
<HedgeMage> Lns: I'm afraid I don't know if there's a gui way :/
 * HedgeMage is kind of old-school
<Lns> HedgeMage: perfect! Thanks. No, I needed it for a script
<HedgeMage> Glad I'm a CLI type of person, then :)
<Lns> me too =)
<HedgeMage> :)
<Lns> have i mentioned I LOVE BASH??
<Lns> hehe
<HedgeMage> heh
 * Lns waves to chan
<Ahmuck-Jr> hi everybody
<HedgeMage> hello, Ahmuck-Jr
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> evening, sbalneav
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Still about?
<sbalneav> hey HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> hi :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: sure
<sbalneav> Hm, ok
<sbalneav> Got it to use Xephyr
<sbalneav> it fires up, then the screen crashes, looking at the log now.
<sbalneav> MainThread 2009/01/19 21:12:21.0587 (admin-tool): Got fatal error: sabayon-sessi
<sbalneav> on exited with a FATAL ERROR (exit code 1)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: did you fire it up with Xnest before?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> It's definitely starting Xephyr, and getting as far as painting the wallpaper.
<sbalneav> Hmmm, wonder where it creates the "user" it logs in as...
<sbalneav> Might be an ".xession-errors" file there.
<sbalneav> Yeah, Xnest bombs out too.
<LaserJock> at roughly the same place?
<LaserJock> Mine never got to painting the wallpaper I don't think, it was just the regular checkered X background
<sbalneav> Hmmmm
<sbalneav> Hmmmmmmm
<sbalneav> XNEST_USR1_TIMEOUT = 10
<sbalneav> lets see
<LaserJock> but I made a patch that would at least get me a loaded desktop
<LaserJock> *then* it would crash shortly thereafter
<sbalneav> what was your patch?
<LaserJock> it's in lib/sources/paneldelegate.py
<LaserJock> I can pastebin it for you
<sbalneav> Interesting
<sbalneav> ...
<sbalneav> Checking for non power of two support: Not present.
<sbalneav> aborting and using fallback: /usr/bin/metacity
<sbalneav> So, it's trying to use freakin' compiz, and when it fails, and tries to fall back to metacity, that's when it pukes.
<sbalneav> Soooooo
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/107200/
<LaserJock> well, it shouldn't puke
<sbalneav> How do we make the DEFAULT window manager to be metacity, I wonder.
<LaserJock> I think you've got the same bug I do
<LaserJock> because that's about where mine would fail
<LaserJock> I think it trying compiz and failing is OK
<LaserJock> I mean, I think we could probably have it default but I don't think it hurts to have it fail
<sbalneav> ok, lemme try your patch, see if I get any farther.
<LaserJock> great, I've forgotten my password in my VM
<sbalneav> Hmmm, just looking at the paneldelegate code.
<sbalneav> Your patch fixes that ONE problem, but if id's null, then there's a whole bunch of things that are going to puke.
<sbalneav> Where did you find the python trace that put you on to that.
<sbalneav> the debug log it dumps in root's home dir isn't.... very helpful.
<LaserJock> you know it just kinda spat out one time I tried to run sabayon
<sbalneav> hm
<LaserJock> and I just grabbed it and hung onto it
<sbalneav> heh
<LaserJock> I don't know what I was doing I was restarting it so often
<LaserJock> and I looked and there was a nice python trace and I was like "oh, now that's something"
<LaserJock> so I kept that terminal open and hacked in another
<LaserJock> I played around a little with trying to figure out which panel was causing the problem
<LaserJock> so I had it spit out the IDs
<sbalneav> Mine dies RIGHT when it says "switching to metacity"
<sbalneav> lemme look
<LaserJock> and it would do the top panel, the bottom panel, and then this empty ID
<LaserJock> so this empty ID "panel" I suspect is something funky gnome is doing
<sbalneav> know how I change the default WM to metacity?  Something in the default session file, I'm thinking
<LaserJock> hmm, somewhat tricky in this case
<LaserJock> I know how to do it normally
<LaserJock> sbalneav: setting WINDOW_MANAGER env variable is supposed to work, but I don't know how to get that to the sabayon session
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> well, changed DEFWM in /usr/bin/gnome-wm
<sbalneav> now I don't get the metacity message, but it still dies.
<LaserJock> right, I don't actually think it's compiz/metacity
<LaserJock> I think it's in all the crap sabayon does at the beginning like the panel stuff
<LaserJock> what I'd love to do is to be able to switch each of the sort of modules in sabayon
<LaserJock> so pass --disable-panel to turn off paneldelgate stuff
<LaserJock> that would help in debugging
<LaserJock> well, actual verbose debugging output would also be nice
<sbalneav> hold on, we should do this in #sabayon :)
<sbalneav> lets go there
<sbalneav> I think I say federico
<sbalneav> saw
<LaserJock> yeah, he was in and out
<marabout> have  older machines (celeron, AMD) and am wondering which version of edubuntu is going to be best to use. (machines are below 512mb ram and would like to network them to home network
<LaserJock> I would probably still go with the latest stable, Ubuntu 8.10
<marabout> LaserJock: use the regular CD and then do the edubuntu supplemental CD install afterwards right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> just pop in the Edubuntu CD it will automatically get detected and you'll have a couple installer options
<LaserJock> the RAM is a tad low for optimal use
<marabout> LaserJock:  512 being the minimum requirement?
<LaserJock> it's not the minimum
<LaserJock> but you'll most likely notice a decent improvement if you were to upgrade to say 1GB
<LaserJock> that's my experience anyway
<LaserJock> I've got a few older machines myself
<marabout> LaserJock:  Wow and I thought that the real ram dependent OS were the other guys...
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> Linux makes good use of RAM
<LaserJock> doesn't mean it's a RAM hog
<LaserJock> I think the listed minimum requirements for Ubuntu is something like 300MB
<LaserJock> marabout: I think the biggest difference in minimum requirements between Ubuntu and "the other guys" is diskspace
<marabout> LaserJock:  I guess that's where I got confused. I'd been hearing about Ubuntu and its wide application for under-developed countries, lack of resources, etc but i guess it was referring to just the fact that the OS is free...
<LaserJock> no, I think it's also true otherwise
<LaserJock> we have Xubuntu which is a fair amount lower system requirements
<LaserJock> there's also lots of ways you can lower the requirements as well
<LaserJock> like you can run Ubuntu on mobile devices
<LaserJock> it's just that the default installation tries to be pretty featureful with apps that take resources (Firefox, OpenOffice, etc.)
<LaserJock> Firefox is usually the big ram hog, that's the same on any OS :-)
<marabout> LaserJock:  I did have a question about the whole thin client or thin server thing. Since I want to connect these computers onto the home network how does the the "thin client" relate to me if at all.
<LaserJock> well, how big is your home network?
<LaserJock> how many machines
<marabout> LaserJock:  4 macs, 3 PCs, 1 ubuntu laptop, ( + 2 more soon to be Ubuntu desktops) all running of a 2wire broadcom home networking device (modem.router)
<marabout> *modem/router all-in-one
<LaserJock> well, what LTSP (the thin client server) would let you do is set up 1 machine as the server
<LaserJock> and all the other machines could log into that server and run off of it
<LaserJock> so you only maintain 1 machine
<LaserJock> you have all your files on 1 machine
<LaserJock> you only need to backup 1 machine, etc. :-)
<marabout> LaserJock:  sounds very interesting. And enticing. I assume the server/machine would need to be pretty well beefed up (ram, clock speed, HD space, etc...?
<LaserJock> well, it needs to be pretty decent but not horribly so
<LaserJock> I would think a newish desktop machine with ~2-4 MB of RAM would do just fine
<LaserJock> there are of course limitations and disadvantages
<LaserJock> but having a single point to maintain is pretty appealing
<marabout> LaserJock:  any particular big disadvantages a layperson should know about?
<LaserJock> well, 2 that I can think of
<LaserJock> one is that it's pretty network intensive (as you're actually running everything over the network)
<LaserJock> so for instance doing it over wifi can be pretty darn slow, most people seem to not recommend it
<LaserJock> the other thing one is if you're doing a lot of stuff with 3D accelerated graphics
<LaserJock> things like watching movies, playing games, etc. can tax the server pretty hard
<LaserJock> there is a decent way of getting around that, but it's still a consideration
<marabout> LaserJock:  well I have children ranging from 14-2. the school age ones are doing online school. I am doing a lot of stuff online during the day when I am home. obviously the older ones want to watch a lot of tv, video web stuff but I am interested in doing it or a least trying it. What is the "get around" besides getting a faster, heavy-duty modem/router ( any suggestions there.../)
<LaserJock> well, what you can do is have LTSP transfer certain programs at boot to the "client" machine and they run on the client
<LaserJock> that's called a fat client
<LaserJock> that puts more of the load on the client's CPU
<marabout> LaserJock:  that sounds good as the best candidate that I have right now for a server would either be a Mac G4 PowerPC tower (1.5ghz/1.5Ram) or a emachine T3406 with a celeron 340 processor
<marabout> LaserJock: If I am considering this what install CD should I use for the would-be (future) server?
<LaserJock> you need the Ubuntu Alternate CD
<LaserJock> it has an install option when you boot up (I think hit F4) to do an LTSP Server
<LaserJock> I would get comfortable with Ubuntu and maybe play around on the side with LTSP to start with
<LaserJock> it's a really cool thing, but it can take a while to get it all ready to "roll out"
<marabout> LaserJock:  on the side as in on another machine or...?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I wouldn't try it initially on a machine that you really need to have access
<LaserJock> like a print server or something
<LaserJock> I always do stuff impulsively and the family is left without a printer for a week ;-)
<marabout> LaserJock:  well i just got two older machines last night from a guy off craigslist to use to kind of learn Ubuntu and set up edubuntu for children, etc. it appears that the emachine has 756 of ram and a 2.x ghz processor so I guess that has the potential to be a good server.
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> so just spend some time with those machines
<LaserJock> once you get them setup and everything running it's usually pretty trivial to test out the thin clients
<marabout> LaserJock:  Should I do install as server and use it as regular desktop until I'm ready or just do a regular install (+edubuntu) and then do a server install when I actually want to go the server route
<LaserJock> you can take a regular machine and network-boot it via LTSP without doing anything to the "thin client" itself
<LaserJock> well, I'd go ahead an do the LTSP install
<LaserJock> because you get regular Ubuntu desktop, plus the LTSP server bits
<LaserJock> so if you're not actively using the LTSP it's no different than a normal Ubuntu desktop
<marabout> LaserJock:  not too familiar with "network-book via LTSP" terminology but if I understand you correctly i do an regular install and add an option at the install screen for LTSP services?
<LaserJock> marabout: what it basically means is basically you can set the boot options on one of your non-Ubuntu machines to boot from the network
<LaserJock> if your LTSP server is running it will boot from that and you'll get Ubuntu
<LaserJock> if it's not running you'll get whatever the machine normally boots
<marabout> LaserJock:  wow that is very interesting. Ok so I assume that you would suggest using 8.10 install disc as opposed to 8.0.4.1 disc? BTW are they both considered LTS or not?
<LaserJock> no, only 8.04.1 is LTS
<LaserJock> I personally would try 8.10 first since you're not in an environment that needs long term support and super stability
<LaserJock> i.e. a school
<LaserJock> I think the fat clients support is also way better in 8.10
<LaserJock> I should warn you though, I'm not an LTSP guru by any means
<LaserJock> I deal primarily with the educational apps and software maintanence side of things
<marabout> LaserJock:  Ok point well taken. Is there a primer where I can find out more about the edubuntu software and what is available and methods of use, etc.?
<LaserJock> marabout: the list of applications on the CD for 8.10 is at http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
<LaserJock> marabout: as far as LTSP you can check out http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html , also ltsp.org in general and the #ltsp channel
<LaserJock> there is also the edubuntu-users mailing list, you can sign up from http://lists.ubuntu.com
<marabout> LaserJock: i was just getting ready to ask about that. so i can find out about 'fat client' there as well
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> there's a bunch of LTSP stuff on the wikis too
<LaserJock> marabout: I think this is a good spot https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<LaserJock> it will probably have a bias towards school setups, that's a place where Edubuntu+LTSP is used a lot
<marabout> LaserJock:  Ok you have been a trmendous help. I am trying to connect the eMachine to the internet now and do the Ubuntu install. Now just a clarification. 8.04 versus 8.10. - 8.10 will be a 'better' product due to improvements, add-ons but 8.04 will just be more stable than its successor, correct?
<LaserJock> it generally is more stable
<LaserJock> the LTS thing means that it is supported for 3 years instead of the usual 18 months
<LaserJock> generally people upgrade their machines within 18 months so it's not an issue
<LaserJock> 8.10 has newer version of the applications and better support for the fat clients
<LaserJock> if you end up having issues with 8.10 you could always try 8.04
<LaserJock> we'll also have 9.04 released in April
<LaserJock> for normal home use I generally don't see the use of using the LTS release unless you have problems with the newer one
<LaserJock> however the option is always there, that's the beauty of having a release every 6 months instead of every 6 years :-)
<marabout> LaserJock: Ok wel I am now trying to get the emachine ready for Ubuntu 8.10. Thanks again for all your help
<LaserJock> no problem
<LaserJock> thanks for stoping by, you're always welcome
<sbalneav> Morning all
<HedgeMage> good morning, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Moooooornin HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> How's life?
<sbalneav> Good.
<sbalneav> We're trying to rally the troops around getting Sabayon fixed.
<sbalneav> it's our biggest PITA at the moment.
<HedgeMage> ahh
<sbalneav> Upstream's either comatose or on life support, or possibly dead, so we've pulled out the paddles, and are trying cpr.
<HedgeMage> Why sabayon?  I've not really played with it.. I thought it was just another WM??
<sbalneav> No, sabayon's the desktop profile management tool put out by gnome.
<sbalneav> If you're a teacher trying to "manage" desktops, then you need it.
<HedgeMage> oh... that makes more sense... what all does it do?
<sbalneav> i.e. customize top and bottom panels, firefox defaults, gconf lockdowns, etc.
<Ahmuck> can i ask a question.  i know when i looked at this and was having problems everyone told me read the documentation, but it looks like it's borken
<sbalneav> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Ahmuck> lol
<Ahmuck> not quit the response i expected to a comment on saybayon
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: So, what's the question?
<nubae> sbalneav: LTSP does have printing enabled for local apps
<nubae> the code was put in by Gadi
<nubae> I remember cause I used it to enable printing on fat clients
<sbalneav> nubae: ok, after I did some of the initial groundwork on the local apps, I haven't had time to persue it, so I think Gadi, warren, and vagrantc have done most of the busy work, but I'm out of thouch with what they've done.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: the question was implied.  why was i directed to documentation for software that was borken.  i worked trying to get sayboyon to work for some time, and gave it upt
<sbalneav> Who directed you to the docs?  Maybe they didn't realize it was broken.
<sbalneav> I didn't realize that sabayon was totally non functional until a week ago.
<Ahmuck> that's fair
<sbalneav> I looked at it durning the Gutsy release, and it worked fine at that point.
 * Ahmuck labels himself as PITA tester
<nubae> yeah, Laserjock managed to get it to work
<nubae> recently, by doing something
<nubae> but maybe we should take it out of the docs, since it is far from finished
<sbalneav> Well, unless something changed since last night, it's still broken
<nubae> yeah he didnt upload the fix he did
<sbalneav> We were working on it last night, and it's non functional in Jaunty.
<nubae> had something to do with /home/sabayon being created
<sbalneav> This is something new since last night?
<nubae> and sabayon trying to start as a real user as opposed to system user
<nubae> no
<nubae> I know he did something with that, and managed to get it starting up
<sbalneav> Well, we've got it starting, but the window crashes when trying to start up a desktop
<nubae> oh, yeah :-) I thought u meant it didnt start up
<Ahmuck> as an educator tech, not having something stable that works would be a nail in the ltsp server idea.  i understand buggy software, but software that is bieng listed and promoted that doesn't work creates an appearance that the entire project is broken
<Ahmuck> until it does work i'd suggest pulling it from the docs and promoting it
<nubae> Ahmuck: unfortunately that is the case with a good 40% of software... sugar is a good example... its just very very Beta
<Ahmuck> pull the beta stuff, and put out what works
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: So, pull it from the docs :)
<Ahmuck> or at least put it in the beta section
<Ahmuck> it's like saying here, this nice shiny car, but you only get three wheels
<Ahmuck> which is great if it's a tri car
<sbalneav> We understand.
<nubae> sbalneav: Ahmuck is not in the edubuntu-docs team, which he would need to be to do changes
<sbalneav> Pull it from the docs.
<sbalneav> So, become a member of the edubuntu-docs team :)
<nubae> but he could edit and send your or my way
<nubae> ogra would need to enable that I believe
 * ogra looks up
<ogra> did he apply ?
<nubae> Ahmuck: ^^
<sbalneav> Morning ogra!
<ogra> heh, eventing
<ogra> *evening even
<nubae> evening indeed
<Ahmuck> because i'm interested in the project i'll consider it.  i'm knee deep in projects as it is.  i've been working on getting local chapters for a regionl lug started and it's been taking tim
<sbalneav> <non-time specific universal greeting> ogra!
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> I'm already up to my knees reading Sabayon code. :)
<sbalneav> ogra: from the sabyon-list, someone frm another Linux project's send me a list of patches they made to sabayon:
<sbalneav> https://lliurex.net/projects/valencia/lliurex-pool-ng/browser/ubuntu-mods/trunk/sabayon/debian/patches
<sbalneav> Fairly extensive patchset.
<nubae> fine, I'll edit the docs...
<ogra> sbalneav, well, if it gets it working, now is the time
<sbalneav> Sabayon certainly worked in the gutsy cycle, since i *fixed* it to work then.
<nubae> was it changes to gnome that broke it?
<sbalneav> There's been changes to X, gnome, and sabayon since then.
<sbalneav> And, sabayon's "languished" unloved for a bit.
<sbalneav> We'll try to change that.
<nubae> strange thing is, I remember using it in Hardy and it worked ok to create exam profiles for my students
<Ahmuck> nubae: how would you edit them?.  i might consider it
<nubae> vi or nano or some such
<nubae> just dont do what I did... open the opendoc in open office :-D
<Ahmuck> well, i meant in content.  i feel i'm on the outside looking in, and i'm not i'd know how the project would want them editied.
<nubae> just take the mention of sabayon out
<nubae> saving the content so it can be put back in later when it works
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Dude, you hang in the channel, you're on the mailing list, and you talk to us.  You're not *outside*, you're *already in* :)
<sbalneav> People think it's *hard* to join a project like like edubuntu, or LTSP.  All it takes is willingness to do some work.  That's how I joined LTSP...
<sbalneav> I submitted some patches to jammcq back in 2000.  By my third or 4th patch, I was talking to him, and said something like "Well, I'm not an LTSP developer like you" and his reply was: "Dude!  You're my top contrubutor.  OF COURSE you're an LTSP developer." :)
<sbalneav> That's all it takes.
<sbalneav> So, if you're looking for an official proclimation:
<Ahmuck> k, k, i get it
<Ahmuck> :)
<sbalneav> All in favour of Ahmuck being an Edubuntu devel, vote now:
<sbalneav> ++
<Ahmuck> lol, no i'm good, i understand
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> Welcome
 * sbalneav passes Ahmuck a beer
<sbalneav> Arrrgh
<sbalneav> Mac's have to change things JUST ENOUGH to make things.... interesting
<sbalneav> I've been struggling for the last 2 hours trying to figure out how to create a group
<sbalneav> Just figured it out.
<Ahmuck> ogra: where do i sign up to change the docs
<nubae> Ahmuck: u have a launchpad account?
<Ahmuck> yes
<sbalneav> I think you just go to the edubuntu-docs team page, click on the "join" button
<Ahmuck> got it already
<sbalneav> Perrrfect :)
<sbalneav> Man, I can hardly wait to get home tonight and try some of these patches out.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: what's your name on launchpad?
<sbalneav> So's I can bookmark you.
<sbalneav> Why don't you join edubuntu-bugsquad too.
<sbalneav> https://edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs
<nubae> sbalneav: where are the patches?
<Ahmuck> docs, bugsquad, & testing
<sbalneav> Welcome aboard :)
 * sbalneav holds out zombie hands
<sbalneav> "oooone oooof usssss, ooooone offff uuuuuuusssss"
<sbalneav> nubae: unomomento
<sbalneav> https://lliurex.net/projects/valencia/lliurex-pool-ng/browser/ubuntu-mods/trunk/sabayon/debian/patches
<sbalneav> Apparently some of the guys at lliurex have done some work, but it didn't get back upstream
<sbalneav> common problem in the Free Software world.
<sbalneav> Sooooo, I'll look at THEIR patches tonight, see if that helps, and if so, I'll agitate to get 'em pushed upstream.
<sbalneav> Zap, it's LaserJock
 * nubae greets LaserJock
<LaserJock> morning all
<nubae> the patches don't look too deep... u think that's all it will take to fix sabayon?
<nubae> looks like ldap and log stuff mostly
<Ahmuck> question.  i know that pardus has a management system for ltsp that is turn key and user friendly.  i've not looked at it, but if it was gpl would it be something that could be used?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: what do you mean by "management system"
<LaserJock> ?
<nubae> sabayon
<LaserJock> so Pardus has a sabayon-like app?
<Ahmuck> not sure, i've not looked at it.  going to download it this afternoon at look at it
<Ahmuck> from what i understand it's turn key and user friendly for school admins
<LaserJock> generally I think fixing sabayon is the best way to go
<nubae> yah no sense in reinventing the wheel
<Ahmuck> agreed, but if the wheel is already invented, would it make sense to change the flat tire?
<LaserJock> not to knock pardus but generally distro-created apps are not so great
<LaserJock> they're usually full of hacks and distr-specific code
<Ahmuck> i've used it
<Ahmuck> in the past
#edubuntu 2009-01-21
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Meshezabeel> evening sbalneav
<Meshezabeel> is it all right to advertise on this channel?
<sbalneav> Commercial products? No, probably not.
<sbalneav> It's a development and support channel
<Meshezabeel> yeah, actually I meant for a meeting for some oss educational software I am developing, I know it's off topic, so thought I'd ask ;)
<Ahmuck> i'm curious what it is
<Ahmuck> is it gpl ?
<Meshezabeel> yes gpl
<Meshezabeel> but Java
<sbalneav> Well, if you're just going to announce that you're having a meeting for <name> in channel <channel>, and for interested people to pop by, THAT would be fine.
<sbalneav> But if you're going to put on a blue shirt and a headset mic and start flogging ShamWow or SlapChop ("You're gonna love my nuts!!!") that might not be so good :)
<Meshezabeel> okay, lol, I kind of started anyhow, so may as well finish, it is lanuage teaching software at http://nikamo.org (for teaching human languages)
<Meshezabeel> I will be having a discussion meeting about the current development as well as what people would like to see. The meeting will be at #nikamo on Thursday at 7:30pm CST (8:30pm EST).
<Meshezabeel> now...where did I leave that blue shirt?
<Meshezabeel> :)
<sbalneav> "Are you following me, camera guy?"
<sbalneav> "You know the *germans* make good stuff"
<sbalneav> etc.
<Meshezabeel> hmm, you watch too many infomercials me thinks :) I don't even get the references there ;)
<Ahmuck> i'm interested
<Ahmuck> screenshots?
<sbalneav> Hold on, gimme a sec :)
<Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: my only problem is that many times i can't get java stuff to run properly
<Meshezabeel> no actually, I have been a bit embarrased to post screen shots at the moment, because most of the pictures include me attempting to draw stick people, etc.
<Meshezabeel> I did have an artist draw some pictures for me, but she was only temporary, and haven't found anyone else to replace her.
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: in Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRISkyV_B8
<LaserJock> hi all
<sbalneav> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rUbWjIKxrrs
<Meshezabeel> You will generally have to have Sun's Java installed, there was a bug in OpenJDK with component spacing, but it is fixed in Jaunty's release. Then you can just right-click on the jar and say "Open with Sun's Java"
<sbalneav> There's the inimitable Vince Offer, master huckster
<sbalneav> Hey hey hey LaserJock
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: not those screenshots
<Meshezabeel> Heya LaserJock
<sbalneav> I kinda like the intro I gave you this afternoon.
<Ahmuck> ah, i'm on intrepid.  anything special i need to do there?
<sbalneav> "Zap! It's LaserJock"
<Ahmuck> try artrage forum.  they have a number of artist there
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: you will need to install Sun's Java if you did not do so already
<Meshezabeel> I think CGJ is currently the only 'Java' that comes with Ubuntu, and it is not really Java.
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: not true
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock: it is true, I said "I think" :)
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> cgj isn't the default Java anymore
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock: OpenJDK?
<LaserJock> openjdk is I believe
<Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: what type of art do you need.  i may have found you an artist
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock: OpenJDK has bugs in the Intrepid version with component spacing, so it is worthless right now, it is fixed in the Jaunty release
<LaserJock> so we should maybe look into getting that fixed perhaps
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: basically any type of art for teaching scenarios, such as body parts, objects, etc.
<Meshezabeel> LaserJock: see the difference in vertical and horizontal spacing between OpenJDK and Sun's: http://imagebin.org/36361
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: I already have some artwork for weather terms and some animals, etc., but that's about it.
<Meshezabeel> sbalneav: you've sold me on the ShamWow, I just ordered 20 of them...it was only a limited time offer after all.
<sbalneav> Watch the slapchop one.
<sbalneav> Don't have a boring life!
<sbalneav> You'll love Vince's nuts!
<sbalneav> The best, best, *best* part is the blind backhand toss into the sink.
<sbalneav> masterful.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: oooooh
<sbalneav> some niiiice patches in that link I got.
<sbalneav> workin, workin...
<Meshezabeel> "We're gonna make America skinny again...one slap at a time"
<Meshezabeel> too bad I didn't spend all that money on the Shamwow, I would have bought this one too. :)
<Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: think i found you an artist.  i would suspect he'll contact you via e-mail
<Meshezabeel> wow awesome!!! Thank you Ahmuck :)
<Ahmuck> http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/prado/
<Meshezabeel> Wow, that's amazing! I've never bothered with Google Earth before as I didn't really need it too often, and would use Google Maps, if I needed to look at the Earth. But I think I am going to have to download Google Earth now :)
<Meshezabeel> There's an open source software called Celestia to get a 3-Dimensional view of the universe, I always thought this software could also be used with other 3D objects to teach other subjects kids would be interested in (such as dinosaurs, etc.).
<LaserJock> hmm, interesting thought
<LaserJock> nubae: around?
<LaserJock> I was wondering what people thought would be a good "namespace" for the Universe app bundle package names
<LaserJock> for Main I used ubuntu-edu-* to go along with the Ubuntu Education CD where they will end up
<Meshezabeel> ubuntu-eduverse ;)
<LaserJock> I was thinking of edubuntu-extras-*
<LaserJock> to sort of show that we consider it the non-core extra stuff
<Meshezabeel> The only thing is, it doesn't start with the same naming scheme as Main
<Meshezabeel> Is this important, I dunno, but worth considering anyhow.
<LaserJock> right, which I think is a good thing
<LaserJock> well, I wanted to create some separation
<Meshezabeel> okay, so ubuntu-edu would be like an external add-on to ubunutu. And edubuntu-... would be like an external add-on to edubuntu.
<Meshezabeel> if 'external' is the right word to use
<LaserJock> well, not exactly
<LaserJock> ubuntu-edu would be an add-on to ubuntu, that's right
<LaserJock> edubuntu- is also an add-on but not fully supported by Canonical and the Edubuntu community
<Meshezabeel> I mean it could work, the only thing is that it does not follow the same approach that ubuntu itself follows, using the same 'namespace' for both main and universe
<LaserJock> right, well, Ubuntu doesn't do what we do :(
<Meshezabeel> indeed
<LaserJock> I'm afraid if we're consistent the names are going to get really long
<LaserJock> ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool, ubuntu-edu-extras-primary, etc.
<Meshezabeel> yeah, I see your point
<Meshezabeel> what about edubuntu-core for main?
<LaserJock> well, I wanted to use ubuntu-edu because those packages are used for the Ubuntu Education CD
<Meshezabeel> or just edubuntu for that matter
<LaserJock> and well, I already uploaded them :-)
<Meshezabeel> :)
<Meshezabeel> Is the Ubuntu Education CD different from the Edubuntu Add-on CD?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we renamed it
<LaserJock> to be more clear and accomidating to Canonical
<Meshezabeel> ah, I see :)
<LaserJock> who would like to use "Ubuntu Education" to market to OEMs and such
<Meshezabeel> Yeah, I actually think that works better
<LaserJock> we thought it would be a bit more understandable to people
<Meshezabeel> yes, I agree
<Ahmuck_Jr> http://pastebin.be/16203
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck_Jr: You are trying to install dansguardian when it is already installed?
<Meshezabeel> Were you running under sudo? I assume so, but then again line 7 seems a bit interesting.
<Ahmuck_Jr> yes.  default dans guardian on a clean box
<Ahmuck_Jr> been using open dns as a test but it does not even come close to filtering properly
<Meshezabeel> what is not filtering?
<Meshezabeel> Ahmuck_Jr: this seems to be the closest thing related to it, and even that is an older version: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-rc@lists.debian.org/msg86523.html
<Meshezabeel> Anyhow, heading to bed, you can check out this link to (maybe you've done so already): http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-392356.html
<Meshezabeel> night all
<Ahmuck_Jr> i need to thank meshezabeel.  that last link was dead on
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> is there a way to see an entire X session from the LTSP server remotly?
<Petaris> I ssh'd in with the -X option
<Petaris> but what I really want is the login window
<Petaris> I need to check some things and the server is in another building accross town
<nubae> vnc
<nubae> or rdp
<nubae> or citrix
<nubae> u need vnc installed in the client of course
<Ahmuck> no machine ?
<Ahmuck> good morning
<Petaris> hrm, I thought that this was possible without vnc
 * Ahmuck looks for his cot to sleep this morning
<nubae> a whole session? dont believe so
<nubae> -X is for individual apps
<Petaris> ok
<nubae> unless u could start gdm or something
<nubae> never tried, it might work
<Petaris> I thought ogra had me do it once
<nubae> try the #ltsp channel
<nubae> more ltsp geeks there
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> will do
<Petaris> thanks
<Ahmuck> noticed the edubuntu brainstorm idea on meusems.  i think i could put togather a photo tour for edubuntu of a book called "sod and stubble" about life on the prarie in the early 1900's
<Ahmuck> the meusuem idea could be further done with a html app that would allow you to look at meuseum links having a short description and a photo next to it
<Ahmuck> our tourism council and historical society has a multimedia presentation we would be happy to have a link to.
<Ahmuck> actually, my bad, not sod and stubble, but sod house days, a book of letters between a kansas homesteader and otheras back east
<Ahmuck> the meusem/history idea has potential for canocial in that if canocial would support a ecuatiocaonl centric web site with catagories, they could charge to have sites listed.  the site would need to be catogoriazed, for instance in my case under the catagore about kansas
<Ahmuck> and settlers or homesteading.  think of it as a visual library and/or visual history presentation
<Ahmuck> or would this be better served with wikipedia?
<Ahmuck> http://www.amazon.com/Sod-House-Days-Letters-Homesteader-1877-78/dp/0700602348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232556515&sr=8-1
 * Ahmuck likes history
<sbalneav> One of the suggestions we've had in the past is an "offline" wikipedia.
<sbalneav> Which, oddly enough, isn't THAT terribly hard to do, other than the fact that it involves a lot of data.
<nubae> sbalneav: that already exists for the xo
<nubae> called wikislices
<nubae> its actually quite good and mature
<sbalneav> I know it's out there, but we've never bothered to do anything about it simply because of the sheer amount of data that we'd have to package up.
<Ahmuck> is it possible to create a mechanism where meuseum x has to provide thier own packaging?
<Ahmuck> and then go through approval?
<Ahmuck> a repository thorugh edubuntu would be a gold mine for schools, particuallry if local venues could contribute.  there is a lot of local history and funny stories type of things that i find most interesting.
<nubae> I think its difficult to put the name edubuntu or ubuntu-edu to anything but the packages officially in main and universe
<sbalneav> A museum wanting to provide content could certainly sign up for a launchpad account and create a Personal Package Archive where they could post their own stuff, for sure.
<sbalneav> As for making it something that "automatically" gets included on every Edubuntu box, that would be a no-go.
<sbalneav> What would stop a malicious user from simply posting packages that do damage, install sniffers, etc.
<Ahmuck> well, not packages ... but website hosting
<Ahmuck> multimedia hosting
<Ahmuck> actually, nm, i have a better idea how to implment the idea
<nubae> reminds me of the guy that came on some time ago, wanting to create a repo of lesson plans and applications on his own site...
<nubae> wonder whatever happened to him... he had grand ideas
<nubae> sbalneav: remember?
<Ahmuck> a repo of lesson plans?
<sbalneav> yup
<Ahmuck> actually, i've got a way to implment the meusum idea.
<sbalneav> I hate to sound like a grizzled old crank but...
<Ahmuck> i think i'm going to try and do it here locally
<sbalneav> We see it a lot in the free software world
<Ahmuck> i'll tuck the repo of lesson plans idea under my to do list with a sticky note
<sbalneav> People with fan-freakin-tastic ideas who will save the world, if only we'd drop everything, listen to them, and do all their bidding.
<Ahmuck> heh, and there is where the differnence is.  peolpe really don't need to do peoples bidding.  it's about the power of the hive
<Ahmuck> like bees or ants
<sbalneav> When you actually say "Well, roll up your sleaves and show us how it's done!" they quietly... sneak... away...
<Ahmuck> heh, not me
<sbalneav> Everybody wants to be queen bee.
<sbalneav> nobody wants to be a worker bee. :)
<Ahmuck> i've got this meusem idea down i think.  we'll see if i can put it togather
<Ahmuck> without worker bees the queen starves to death :)
<Ahmuck> and the hive dies
<sbalneav> yessir.
<sbalneav> exactly
 * Ahmuck raises bees
 * sbalneav enjoys honey
<sbalneav> cheers!
<Ahmuck> organic bees
<sbalneav> Anywho, off for lunch, be back in a bit.
<Ahmuck> most honey is diluted with sugar water and has all kinds of anti-biotics in it
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: the guy with the lesson plans had the plans and had done the work, but was looking for someone to set up the host for the repo because he/she did not know how to do that.  expecting him/her to do so would be like expecting an car mechanic to paint a michangelo.  it simply not in his/her skill set
<Ahmuck> my skill set is matching people and resources.  if you have his nick or email address i might be interested in connecting with him/her
<Ahmuck> his lesson plans would be a good start
<Ahmuck> i do the tech stuff to keep me from being bored
<LaserJock> no RichEd?
<Lns> we're meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> in ~ 3min
<nubae> wow is it already that time?
<Lns> coolio
<nubae> time flies
 * Lns waves to nubae, all
<nubae> I just sold ubuntu to 2 schools here... they will migrate both locations to Linux and edubuntu entirely ;-)
<Lns> nubae: niiice!!
<Lns> nubae: LTSP, or ?
<nubae> wasnt hard convincing, since the sysadmin there was a linux geek already
<nubae> yeah LTSP
<Lns> that is awesome
<nubae> he was already running 2 kiosks with opera (ltsp 4.2)
<nubae> I told him things have come a long way since then
<nubae> and that u wanna use the full power of the desktop
<Ahmuck> how do you sell to schools?  i've not had great experiences with ltsp yet
<nubae> well, usually its a slow process
<nubae> but if there are linux guys on board... then its easy
<Ahmuck> i'd have trouble selling it, because i have not seen it work as well as i expected it to
<LaserJock> stgraber, sbalneav : you guys around?
<LaserJock> morgs: available for an Edubuntu meeting?
<nubae> well, it requires an experienced ltsp user for the admin side right now, for sure
<Ahmuck> in the school, correct?
<nubae> well, at least to be able to setup the system
<nubae> after, its not really needed
<nubae> LaserJock: sbalneav is out to Lunch I believe
<Ahmuck> our schools have k-12 max of 300 students.  it's hard enough to pay for general school stuff let alone hire an admin for the shcool.  our local school advertise three times before getting a tech and he left with physc problems
<LaserJock> nubae: heh
<nubae> and I just spoke to morgs on gtalk, so he should be around
<Ahmuck> i'd be really interested in pushing ltsp and edubunt to schools, but i'm hesitant to do so
<nubae> Ahmuck, why?
<morgs> pong
<morgs> LaserJock: here?
<Ahmuck> there are a number of reasons.  one is content filtering.  i've not tried dans guardian yet though
<nubae> dansguardian is very easy to setup
<nubae> just requires some time to go through the lists
<Ahmuck> we have a school of about 1000+ students here that uses open office, gimp, and scribus.  they are still on ms os platforms however, but i don't think it would take much to convince them to switch
<LaserJock> morgs: in #ubuntu-meeting
<Ahmuck> and there is the new president, who is going to dump lots of money into edu.  if ms offers low prices and there is govt money, that's another hurdle to clear
<Lns> Ahmuck: we just need to keep in mind that our tech is pretty much miles ahead of MS's  as far as edu setups go
<Ahmuck> i've not seen ms stuff.  i'm a linux peep only.  i don't even know what adobe stuff looks like
<Ahmuck> if someone could dig up the nick for the guy with the  lesson plans i might consider looking into it
<Lns> ogra: you going to join into #ubuntu-meeting, or are you busy?
<ogra> i'm quite busy but can be available on request to answer one or the other thing
<Lns> ok, thx ogra  :)
<Ahmuck> does abiword output to *.doc?
<nubae> yes
<Ahmuck> 97/2000/xp ?
<highvoltage> I thought upstream evince had all the olpc stuff in now?
<nubae> Ahmuck yep
<nubae> nah Tomeu is still chasing them I think
<morgs> highvoltage: we've been using a custom sugar-evince package in the fedora-ish OLPC distro
<morgs> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Evince tracks the upstreaming
<highvoltage> g'night edubuntu'ers
<Lns> night, highvoltage
<LaserJock> ok, I'm done for today for IRC I think
<LaserJock> please try to post as much stuff to edubuntu-devel as you can in terms of things we need to think about or get done for Jaunty
<LaserJock> thanks everybody, you guys rock!
<Lns> So what's the verdict on the Plasma in Edubuntu thing? Was whatshisface just looking to start collaborating with us, or is he looking to migrate edubuntu stuff to plasma, or... ?
<Ahmuck> i think he was explaining how plasma worked and how easy it would be to create a uni admin app for ltsp edubuntu
<Ahmuck> bbl
<Lns> oh.. uni admin app? Like a control panel for all things edubuntu? profiles, lockdown... ?
<Lns> Hopefully it could work cross-UI though, at least at some point. XDG menu system seems to find ways to work cross-UI. Obviously we have different security mechanisms (gconf, etc) but i'm sure somehow it could be tied into this "subsystem" and make it fairly seamless
<alkisg> ...I tried putting ltsp into kubuntu jaunty alpha 3 today, no luck. Pity, the things he said about user management, lockdowns etc were pretty interesting
<Lns> alkisg: definitely
<Lns> Has anyone actually done a deployment of KDE/LTSP here?
<ogra> Lns, stgraber has
<ogra> Lns, and he will tell you it was major pain :)
<Lns> ogra: stgraber: What are the core issues? Obviously, Novell touts it, though I'm not sure how much they actually tout LTSP/KDE as much as Kiwi imaging/KDE
<ogra> alkisg, he holds the same talk since 4 years ... he's an OSS sales guy
<alkisg> Heh :P
<ogra> trying to sell kde to everyone doing promo talks
<Lns> That's the kind of feeling I got from him
<ogra> (he is a nice guy, dont get me wrong, but his agressive marketing talks usually make me want to leave the room/channel)
<alkisg> I wonder if he was typing that fast, or if he had a prepared "sales speech" :P
<alkisg> But really, after qt went lgpl, I'm thinking about trying kde...
<ogra> he is typing as fast as he talks you into a corner :)
<ogra> its all training
<Lns> ogra: training from where?
<ogra> form years of doing that
<Lns> haha.. ok
<ogra> he had him at UDSes before
<Lns> Using Plasma on Gnome would require a major shift, no?
<Lns> it's obviously tied closely to qt
<ogra> Lns, so you volunteer to port all of gnome to C++ ?
<Lns> ogra: I don't even know what I'm talking about, much less you ;)
<Lns> I'm just trying to grasp where plasma fits in with aaron's "vision"
<Lns> and what, exactly, he was trying to accomplish with us
<ogra> to switch edubuntu to kde
<nubae> I thought he brought up some good points, though carefully avoided ltsp
<Lns> maybe we should suggest backing plasma out of KDE only so it can be cross-ui ;)
<nubae> right, which some on the edubuntu team might see as its future
<nubae> well kiosk tool would be nice for ltsp
<ogra> working sabayon as well
<alkisg> yeah, go go sbalneav
<ogra> they are largely the same ...
<ogra> its just that one is maintained and the other isnt
<nubae> yeah true, I got a feeling though, from what he was saying, that more people are involved with working on kiosk tool
<Lns> Not that it matters much, but like i'd mentioned the other day i'm using a simple menu-driven shell script to automate lots of functions in ltsp/multi-user ubuntu servers (such as distributing files to user homedirs based on group membership, firefox default/mandatory homepages based on group membership, easy updating of system/chroot, etc
<Lns> It's really not that difficult to do in a generic way
<alkisg> Lns, but what if you could do this with kuser?
<nubae> u got that stuff uploaded some place?
<alkisg> Select a bunch of users, right click and say "lock their wallpaper"?
<Lns> alkisg: sure, but that's tying into kde stuff. It'd be nice to have a generic tool so people have freedom of choice as much as possible
<nubae> well u can do that easily with zenity
<alkisg> Could be also done with users-admin
<Lns> ugh..users-admin
<nubae> zenity brings up windows which are dead easy to code
<alkisg> The users-selection is tool specific, but all the "what to do with the selected users" could be cross-distro
<nubae> like selecting mutliple files, users, etc
<Lns> nubae: ooooo!!!
<Lns> zenity looks like something i'd love to get into
<nubae> yep, integrates directly into shell script
<alkisg> nubae: pygtk and pyqt also do this, and maybe better
<nubae> not easier
<alkisg> zenity is for smaller scripts, i think
<nubae> not really, y?
<Ahmuck> Lns: i've done kde deployment yes
<nubae> sure its not a programming language, its to help the shell script become windows based...
<Ahmuck> what is kiwi imaging?
<nubae> perfect for what Lns mentioned
<Lns> Ahmuck: kind of like fatclient
<Lns> Ahmuck: so you do KDE under ubuntu/ltsp?
<alkisg> nubae: I've started coding a users-admin replacement in pygtk, wanting to do all the things Lns said and even more, if anyone's interested we may try to implement it together...
<Lns> alkisg: i'd be interested in seeing what you have
<nubae> sure, me too, but I think u might be reinventing the wheel a bit
<alkisg> So far I've got a users and a groups list with sorting/multiple selection, and I want to make a plugin based scripting system
<alkisg> nubae: there's isn't a tool out there that enables me to select some users and execute a script for them
<alkisg> And I really wonder why.
<Lns> nubae: reinventing from what?
<Ahmuck> Lns: i've done kde under ubuntu/ltsp yes,
<nubae> alkisg: that is literally 2 lines in zenity attached to a shell script
<Lns> nubae: lemme upload my script if you wanna take a look at it. Please don't laugh at it though. :)
<nubae> alkisg: anyway, what I'm saying is, the existing admin tool could be modified to multi select
<alkisg> nubae: users-admin? I don't think so!!! :)
<nubae> Lns: I would never laugh
<nubae> alkisg: y not?
<Lns> users-admin doesn't even sort users/groups correctly (still).
<alkisg> kuser, probably, but not users-admin
<ogra> alkisg, sure ...
<alkisg> I tried contacting the author, no answer. It doesn't even support sorting, which is 1 line in C code
<ogra> just a matter of the time you invest :P
<nubae> if its 1 line, then it should be easy
<alkisg> ogra, well, forks aren't good enough...
<ogra> alkisg, did you file an ubuntu bug ?
<alkisg> No... you thing that would help?
<ogra> i'm sure seb128 would be grateful to get patches, fixes and improvements
<Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259163 in gnome-system-tools "users-admin does not sort when Name/Login/Homedir field clicked" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<alkisg> Lns, good digging! :)
<alkisg> maybe the author is worried about  performance problems, but I really think he's just bored.
<Lns> alkisg: Look at who reported the bug. ;)
<ogra> alkisg, atach your fix there
<alkisg> Heh!!!
<Lns> I think it's funny marked as "Wishlist". Especially with the error it produces.
<nubae> alkisg: isn't lazy enough... if he was lazier he'd take some one elses work and improve that...
<alkisg> Ok, I'll send a patch for sorting. But I don't think "calling a python/shell script with the selected users" will have chances of being accepted..
<Ahmuck> k, i got to get back to work :)
<nubae> devs are usually lazy... thats why open source works
<Lns> Ahmuck: can you comment on KDE's stability/operability under LTSP?
<alkisg> nubae: if you have a look at kuser, you won't want to even look users-admin anymore...
<Lns> esp. in larger ( > 10 users) deployments?
<Lns> alkisg: umm, that's really not true
<alkisg> Lns, really?
<Lns> KUser has issues under Gnome that really baffle me..such as the .desktop file using KDE specific vars
<alkisg> users-admin even had problems not saving the modifications... not only UI problems
<Lns> it's madatory to manually modify it before you can even launch it
<alkisg> Well, I meant kuser under KDE :)
<Lns> alkisg: bah
<Lns> Trust me, these apps are ones my downstream techs have tested. They like KUser, because users-admin was broken. That doesnt' mean if the bugs in users-admin were fixed, they'd still want kuser.
<alkisg> Lns, kuser even supports ldap... is more stable... has better UI... there's really no comparison in my eyes!
<Lns> It's nice that it has LDAP integration, and lots of other little niceities, but the UI is very IWantToLookLikeWindowsUserManager... and I just hate linux apps that try to be windows apps
<alkisg> That's a KDE trent
<alkisg> trend
<Lns> yeah, that's a shame. ;)
<nubae> oooo... Lost airs today...
<alkisg> People even don't like italc because it looks windows-like... I don't mind, though.
<Lns> alkisg: my point is, things need to be generic enough to be usable in different environments. That is one of the core Linux/OSS philosophies. The second I start to see "Well, it works in KDE better" is the second I doubt the project's intentions
<nubae> Lns: well stated
<Lns> Because everyone is different, and there is no doubt that people will always have their own setups. If you want a 'killer app' it can't be tied to a specific environment.
<Lns> unless it *is* the environment.
<nubae> Lns: how do u manage all your deployments... I mean... like bugs/things to do/routines? u use some soft for that?
<Lns> nubae: I use "Sticky Notes" ;)
<alkisg> Lns: but how can an app that uses kde functions be also compatible with gnome functions? In some cases it'll be a total rewrite...
<nubae> lol
<Lns> just a simple notepad app to track my TODO's. I use CentricCRM for ticketing, SSH for remote admin
<Lns> alkisg: if you're trying to support kde-only functions, then that's fine. but that's not what a user manager should be trying to do.
<Lns> nubae: I track bugs using LP
<alkisg> Lns: did you see the users-admin code? It's full of gnome-specific functions
<Lns> alkisg: I'm sure it does
<Lns> not saying users-admin is the end all user mgmt tool... for that, i like adduser. ;)
<Lns> it integrates well into shell scripts, doesn't depend on much, and doesn't change much.
<alkisg> Even addusers doesn't use /etc/login.defs and uses it's own file
<Lns> alkisg: so more on your replacement tool.. how far along is it?
<alkisg> Lns: not far enough, but if it's only going to support scripting, it won't need much :)
<alkisg> But if it'll also support importing users from .csv or ldap etc, then it hasn't even started yet :P
<nubae> well csv should be relatively easy
<nubae> that is, if it will run with a db
<Lns> nubae: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/195
<nubae> Lns: thats very nice..
<Lns> It's incredibly beta, has no error handling (yet), only does a few specific things..but i see potential
<Lns> nubae: thank you
<Lns> i've worked hard on it so far with my limited bash knowledge
<Lns> but i've always been a fan of console menu-driven interfaces (i get it from the good old DOS days)
<Lns> Which is why i might be looking into Python later
<nubae> very clean
<Lns> but for now i want to learn bash as much as possible
<alkisg> Lns, in misctasks you still have recursion
<Lns> alkisg: oh, ty
<nubae> well that script is perfect for zenity
<Lns> nubae: sweet!
<Lns> I'm thinking of forking this "custom" script into something i can put into my PPA, something like "District Admin" or something related to multi-user setups
<nubae> take a look: http://linux.byexamples.com/archives/265/a-complete-zenity-dialog-examples-2/
<Lns> nubae: wow, that looks super simple
<nubae> it is
<Lns> I'll have to keep that bookmark and take a look at integrating it.
<nubae> u could put your entire menu system into a window based click and continue style
<Lns> nubae: that'd be nice, but i do see benefits for sticking with the console
<Lns> such as in fixslowbug()
<nubae> kde has something similar
 * ogra calls that "text adventure"
<nubae> lol... true that it is
<Lns> ogra: heh, yeah - see zork()
<nubae> but it works for certain tasks
<nubae> I actually thought about using zenity to create some educational content
<alkisg> Lns, how does dist() work? I don't see a "sudo", how does it copy the files?
<Lns> alkisg: ah, you pointed out a security issue iwth my script ;)
<Lns> The script itself runs sudo
<Lns> at least the way i set it up
<Lns> i know i have tons of sudo lines
<Lns> so it's doubling in.. i'll fix that though
<Lns> do you have to use sudo in all commands in a pipe?
<alkisg> Ah... ok. My script also parses user-dirs.dirs to check if the users have localized "Documents" folders... wanna join forces? :)
<Lns> alkisg: i ran into that prob yesterday when the tech was testing it out - some ppl didn't have a "documents" folder so it copied the file as "Documents" into their homedir
<Lns> something i haven't tackled yet
<Lns> alkisg: yeah, it'd be nice to have someone to work with on it
<alkisg> You could source ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs, then mkdir -p $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR, and then copy the file to $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR...
<Lns> Since apparently there's no real way to set default homepages in FF2/3 globally, i'm going to implement something like dist() where it will set users' homepages based on group membership
<alkisg> (I hate the localized folder names... it could be a UI thing, why did they do it a file system thing like windows? :()
<Lns> alkisg: ooo, nice. I'll probably do that! But what if there's none for a user?
<Lns> alkisg: agreed
<Lns> The layout of your homedir should be left up to you
<alkisg> Well, then set a default XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR  = $HOME?
<Lns> that'd work
<Lns> again, though, i need to study each of these methods as i'm learning from the ground up basically
<alkisg> Lns: Oh, I forgot about the homepage thing, let me see how I did that...
<alkisg> (and I'm really hungry for a pizza.. :P)
<Lns> alkisg: =p
<Lns> offer is still on the table (no pun intended)
<alkisg> Lns: gksu gedit /usr/lib/firefox-*/defaults/profile/prefs.js
<alkisg> user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr/");
<alkisg> That worked fine for me
<Lns> but it has to be a FIX so the intended firefox.js browser.startup.homepage can be used
<Lns> hm
<Lns> lemme try
<alkisg> Lns, for *new* users
<Lns> alkisg: :(
<alkisg> You'd have to delete the firefox settings for old users to have this
<Lns> booo
<alkisg> Ah, you need it to be mandatory?
<Lns> yes
<Lns> but i think doing a group membership homepage that parses their profiles might be more flexible in the long run..though i'm sure a core fix for the "browser.startup.homepage" deal would be appreciated by everyone too
<Lns> it's crazy how such a simple goal is obfuscated so badly in firefox
<Lns> there's like 10 different homepage "defaults" that are tied together in some spaghetti fashion that i dont think i'd ever understand
<alkisg> Were there any bug reports for this?
<Lns> heh...yes
<Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19033
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 19033 in firefox "systemwide default startup homepage ignored" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Lns> Wow, just got this e-mail from one of my clients (an elementary school district) IT director: Since electrical bills are such a big piece of our operating budget, I am mandating that lab workstations and monitors be shut-down on Fridays effective immediately. It could become a daily routine in the future. Servers may be left on. Thanks.
<Lns> that would be easy to automate in chroot cron..
<Lns> at least the workstation part, the monitors i dunno if you can do, anyone?
<Lns> hrm, cron isnt' installed in chroot by default, but /etc/cron.* are there
#edubuntu 2009-01-22
<Ahmuck> the bot is all mine
<Ahmuck>  or was
<sbalneav> Morning all
<juliux> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello
<nubae> sbalneav: u were looking for me yesterday...
<sbalneav> Yeah
<sbalneav> I saw a comment on how your fat client script is "unsupported"
<nubae> well, unsupported by anyone but me
<nubae> seems to be a lot of people installing it
<sbalneav> Why not just push it upstream?
<sbalneav> then it just becomes part of LTSP
<nubae> have to make some changes to the way the users are copied to the fatclient
<nubae> right now its not going through ssh
<nubae> so its a security issue
 * sbalneav shrugs
<nubae> and I don't see a easy fix
<sbalneav> if it's an optional thing to install, it's not a huge problem
<sbalneav> and if it's upstream, then you may ultimately attract more people to it.
<sbalneav> To help you with it.
<nubae> ok... so how should I go about pushing upstream?
<nubae> b4 I do that though, I'd like to implement zentiy for some stuff like choice of packages and input of admin user
<sbalneav> Well, I'd say all we need to do is get you added to ltsp-drivers group, then you'd have access to ltsp-trunk
<nubae> ok, should I apply somewhere or what?
<sbalneav> You in #ltsp?
<nubae> yes
<mpih> Would it possible to run a 133 Mhz PC as a thin edubuntu client ?
<nubae> mpih: not ltsp 5, no
<nubae> not unless it has stupid amounts of ram, and even then I'd say no
<mpih> I don't think they have a lot of RAM :p
<mpih> It might even be as little as 32 mb :o)
<nubae> then no way... but u could run ltsp 4.2
<mpih> I'll have a look at 4.2 then. There is this company who want to donate 300 small touch screen PC's previously used for trucks. It would be great to install edubuntu on them and donate it to an education project
<nubae> hmm, but are they wired?
<nubae> or wireless?
<mpih> It's this type: http://www.currentdirections.com/hardware/intermec/5055.html
<Ahmuck> mpih: crunchbang
<nubae> u know... I'd still try it out...
<nubae> if win 95 can run on it...
<nubae> u can probably run xfce
<nubae> although kernel these days needs a lot of power and ram
<mpih> Yeah, I'm not sure Xfce can run with 32 mb rAM
<mpih> perhaps openbox can, as Ahmuck suggested
<Ahmuck> there's also opengeu as well as tinyme
<nubae> and matchbox
<mpih> My biggest concern is running browser, text editors and such
<nubae> well, one thing u could do for sure... is run a totally text based environment
<nubae> I toyed with that idea for a while
<nubae> lynx, pine, pico, etc
<mpih> Hehe, IÃ¸m not sure 300 students with no PC experience would like that :)
<Ahmuck> at least they would learn something :)
<nubae> well, u know... when I was first at Uni
<nubae> thats the way it was
<nubae> a big menu
<nubae> and 1, 2, 3, 4 for email, for web, for editting, etc
<nubae> and u know what... we used the frac out of it
<vogese> where is ubuntu 8.04.2?
<nubae> vms...
<nubae> jeez those were the days
<Ahmuck> yes, but it always worked.  and "finger" as well
<nubae> yeah exactly :-)
<mpih> :)
<nubae> I personally, for nostaligic reasons, I admit.. would love something like that
<Ahmuck> i can recall fingering one uni from another and then randomly chatting with that person
<Lns> Unix roots ftw!
<Lns> <3
<nubae> oooh, yeah... talk
<nubae> hehe, and irc when it had about 1000 people in total in efnet
 * Lns is nostalgic about the good ole BBS days...
<vogese> where is ubuntu 8.04.2?
<nubae> vogese: well download hardy, and just upgrade
<vogese> nubae: i know, but since it's coming so soon i'd like to download a clean cd
<vogese> nubae: has it been postponed?
<nubae> I have not seen it as a CD
<Mip5> I'm running edubuntu ltsp 8.04, and have about 5 clients successfully using it.
<Ahmuck> whats up with *untu printing lately and hp printers?
<Mip5> However, I've got a different box (dell optiplex GX 270) that can't complete the boot process.
<Mip5> The last thing I see is: Starting ltsp client
<Mip5> Then there is a flashing cursor in the upper left hand corner
<Mip5> I see many entries when I tail -f the syslog including this one:in.tftpd[25390]: tftp: client does not accept options
<Mip5> and then: ldminfod[25427]: connect from 192.168.0.212 (192.168.0.212), which repeats until I kill the client
<Mip5> Any ideas?
<Mip5> Ahmuck -> I've found printing to work fine. Are you having troubles - or just wondering how it will work?
<Lns> Mip5: maybe a video driver issue? have you done chroot updates?
<Mip5> These are pretty old machines - at least a few years older than the ltsp build.
<Mip5> How often in general should I do the chroot updates?
<Lns> Mip5: I do mine weekly
<Lns> just to check
<Mip5> I've enabled a SCREEN_02=shell for this mac address - but I'm not sure what to look for
<stgraber> Mip5: if you get a lot of ldminfod request, it's because X fails to start on that client
<Mip5> ok - thanks. When I grep the Xorg.1.log file for EE I get: module ABI major version (1) doesn't match the server's version (2) and Failed to load mudle "psb" (module requirement mismatch, 0)
<Mip5> I haven't googled these - but does anything here jump out at you?
<stgraber> Mip5: hmm, right. "dpkg -l | grep psb" what's the result of that
<Mip5> lots of ======= and then, No packages found matching psb.
<Mip5> When I look at xorg.conf, I see no entries for screen dimensions ("1024x786"), etc
<Mip5> If I launch X by hand, I get two (EE)s. 1) EE VESA(0): No matching modes
<Mip5> and the other is (EE) Screen(s) found, but none havea  usable configuration, and then, Fatal Server error: no screens found
<Mip5> I'm not sure why xorg.conf would be so far off... Is there a way to run it by hand, and see if it can grab the right config?
<stgraber> you can try generating a minimal xorg.conf with only the Device section and the right Driver
<stgraber> that should fix most of your bug
<Ahmuck> generating a xorg.conf tosses HAL out?
<Mip5> stgraber -> how should I go about generating the xorg.conf?
<Ahmuck> rebooting and fixing x on the resue menu from grub will do it
<Mip5> Ahmuck - this is a thin client, so I don't get the grub option. I'll need to generate xorg.conf on the fly, and then try to launch X
<Mip5> Someone on this channel - it might have been sbalneav, had me alter usb params in the BIOS (for a different machine), and that solved the issue.
<Mip5> As I said, it was a different box entirely, but it failed in the same way (blinking cursor in the upper LH corner.
<Mip5> I *think* he also had me disable some power params, but I can't recall what they were - really need to write this stuff down....
<Mip5> OKay - well thanks gang. I'll have to hit this again tomorrow.
<stgraber> X -configure will give you a sample configuration
<stgraber> you can then edit it and copy it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
#edubuntu 2009-01-23
<Meshezabeel> There will be a meeting in #nikamo in 20 minutes regarding current progress and future enhancements. Nikamo is Open Source (GPL) software for teaching human languages.
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> why do I always get the idea that something more interesting is going on in another room?
<nothingman> Ahmuck, nubae, sbalneav, wake up!
 * Ahmuck opens an eye
 * Ahmuck shuts my eye again and snores
<Meshezabeel> nothingman, why didn't you wake me up? I ended up sleeping in :(
<nothingman_> what is the status of having a fallback network connection on a client?
<nothingman_> I mean, my broken-hard-drive laptops could run a fat client with wireless drivers and then disconnect from the ethernet and join the wireless
<nothingman_> any thoughts on how to make a fat client do that, nubae?
<nothingman_> and snapshots?  Can we make it so a user is able to log back into a saved session from any other terminal?
 * nothingman_ spends a lot of time talking excitedly to himself
<stgraber> nothingman_: it's 5:30 nubae's time
<nubae> greets RichEd
<RichEd> hi nubae
<nubae> I've managed to get 2 private schools here to migrate their infrastructure to ubuntu/edu
<nubae> if they want official support from Canonical, should I send them to u?
<nubae> RichEd: ?
<RichEd> nubae: sure they can email me ... but here is a direct route if they want to read up: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid
<nubae> k thanks
<multik> g'day all
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Petaris> Hi all
<nothingman> hi, all!
<nothingman> getting a PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout error
<Petaris> I have a hardy install with ltsp and I want to use the new x86_64 flash plugin but it is not seen by firefox when I put it in /usr/lib/firefox/plugins or /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/
<Petaris> Is there a special place it has to go?
<Petaris> nevermind
<Petaris> I updated firefox and I guess it needs to go into /usr/lib/firefox-3.0.5/plugins
<nubae> nothingman: that is a firewall stopping tftp
<nubae> had that enough times to be sure thats it ;-)
<nothingman> wish I'd thought of it before reading Ubuntu forums; now re-building my client :-P
<nothingman> nubae: thanks, though!  I'll try to remember it next time
<nothingman> nubae: it works now
<nothingman> nubae: I still get package dependency errors running your fatclient plugin
<Mip5> Morning Gang - I'm still having trouble getting my Dell optiplex gx270 clients to boot into X. I've got a terminal open on one now. ANy ideas for the next step?
<nothingman> does anyone have information about having a generic user that can be logged in multiple times at once with only temporary settings?
<Mip5> okay - I just ran X -config, and it got a gray screen and an X. I diffed the xorg.conf.new with the original and saw that the new one had i810 as the driver, not vesa
<Mip5> How do I specify that for this class of clients?
<nubae> nothingman: u shouldnt be getting any errors...
<nubae> which errors do u get?
<alkisg> Mip5: XSERVER=i810 in lts.conf ?
<alkisg> (and CONFIGURE_X=True if you're running ubuntu 8.10)
<nubae> yeah and for intel, probably set the refresh rates for the resolution u want
<nubae> if its widescreen
<Mip5> alkisg: Thanks - I'll try that now.
<Mip5> nubae - not sure how to specify refresh rates in lts.conf
<Mip5> aklisg- BINGO! Thanks!
<alkisg> np :)
<Mip5> okay - I'm sure I can find this in the documentation - but can I specify this driver for the class of machines (probably have more than 15 of these)
<alkisg> Mip5: some time ago lts.conf supported "LIKE" directives, which you could use in this case. I don't know if they're still supported. Maybe you should ask in #ltsp.
<alkisg> Mip5: see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf for an example
<nubae> well, whats wrong with using [default] ?
<alkisg> If I understood correctly ("for the class of machines") I think he also has other, non intel clients...
<nubae> it might be easier to single out the others though
<nubae> depending on how many machines there are of course
<nubae> greets Lns
<Mip5> nubae and alkisg - I have a hodgepodge mix of machines
<Lns> greetings nubae =)
<Lns> happy Friday
<Mip5> some amd, and some intel
<nubae> but how many of each more or less
<nubae> Lns: happy friday indeed...
 * nubae kicks moodle's stylesheets...
<Lns> lol
<nubae> like finding a needle in a haystack
<Lns> you're never going to like moodle are you?
<nubae> not as long as I'm knee deep in it... :D
<Mip5> 10 of one kind, 13 of another, and a room full of "other" machines that I haven't even had a chance to look into
<nubae> ah well... guess u'll have to manually define the 10 machines and use [default] for the 13
<Mip5> Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I saw a place where you can define classes of machines "Dell" and use stanzas
<Mip5> I'll hunt around the docs and let y'all know what I find.
<nubae> thats in dhcpd.conf
<nubae> dont think lts.conf allows for that, but I could be wrong
<Mip5> Thanks a lot for your help - this batch of machines had me stumped for a while
<Mip5> I don't think it was dhcp - but I could be confusing it with the pxe configs
<Mip5> I'll let you know what I find
<Lns> Mip5: you can do that indeed in lts.conf
<Lns> lemme dig up the doc for ya
<Mip5> cool - thanks!
<nubae> Lns: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LtspUpdateManagerIntegration <--- another fine job for zenity
<Lns> Mip5: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2536647
<Lns> nubae: well, I think the idea was to get chroot updates integrated into update-manager itself
<nubae> oh...
<nubae> sounds far more complicated then
<nubae> but it could be done as a tool by itself... which would be cool, because I could use that for fatclient :p
<Lns> nubae: ooo, nice.. hehe - Yeah, it would be a neat little graphical tool. When I have time I'll still be looking into zenity for my little script..but i need to do much other work first
<nubae> yeah I hear ya... I cant wait to dig in and do some ltsp work... I'm so tired of looking at Moodle...
<nubae> been 3 months on this project, and now of course I have to start work on yet another moodle project
<ogra> nubae, ?? why couldnt you use an update-manager hook that works on a chroot in fatclients ?
<ogra> u-m already has all functionallity for operating on chroot, ist just that nobody has integrated it with ltsp ever (ask mvo, he is the u-m maintainer)
<Mip5> Lns - thanks for the link. I see the stanzas and how to use the LIKE variable to group machines together.
<Mip5> Lns - as I read it, it looks like I'll still need to specify the full MAC address for all the clients in the class. Is there no way to leave the last few bits undeclared?
<Lns> Mip5: I'm not aware of it, but I might be wrong..
<Lns> Maybe a q for sbalneav or ogra
<nubae> ogra: oh... why was it not activated?
<nubae> and the main reason is, I'm not really a python hacker... but I suppose I could try..
<nubae> but if its really just mvo who has to activate these parts, I'll bug him about it
<Mip5> Lns - thanks. I can certain make due with adding the mac addresses by hand.
<Lns> Mip5: hopefully you don't have too many. Of course once they're in there, you're all good. :) (hmm, makes me wonder if adding functionality for something like a ltsconf.d/ directory would be a good idea to separate different client configs is a good idea for future development?)
<Mip5> Lns - I think that would be a *great* idea. We currently get old pcs donated from C4K (computer for kids), and it's really a mix
<Mip5> Being able to have the configs be more general would be great.
<Lns> Mip5: i mentioned it in #ltsp. Maybe you could submit a feature request in launchpad to get the ball rolling.. ?
<Lns> And describing your situation and how it would help you
<Mip5> Lns - Sure - though I haven't done that before. I'll look at that after I'm out of this meeting...
<Lns> Mip5: great.
<Lns> The more contributions to Launchpad for getting things like this in, the better for us all :)
<Lns> alkisg: The ubuntu wiki page you created re: dhcp static IPs - is that for 8.04, 8.10, ?
<alkisg> Let me see... :)
<Lns> I'm updating every wiki page there to reflect the correct header information regarding versions
<alkisg> Lns: Tested on 8.04 and 8.10, but I think this should work in even veeeeery older ubuntu versions
<Lns> alkisg: ok, thanks
<alkisg> Lns, could you also add that START_ITALC is needed to install italc in the chroot? (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc)
<Lns> alkisg: in the amount of time it took you to ask me that, you could have done it yourself ;)
<Lns> let me finish the headers and i'll do that
<alkisg> I didn't know where to put it! :)
<Lns> alkisg: you're talking about simply adding START_ITALC = True in lts.conf right?
<alkisg> Yeah, I think so
<Lns> ok
<alkisg> I heard about it 2-3 times, but I never did it
<Lns> alkisg: done
<alkisg> Lns, you're great... and also fast! :)
<Lns> alkisg: you're just lucky that was my next page to edit ;)
<alkisg> Hehe!!!
<Lns> I've been meaning to really clean that wiki up some more. After that, it's on to the edubuntu wiki =)
<alkisg> Lns: but really, you should use categories instead of headers
<alkisg> :P
<Lns> alkisg: yeah but again, what about it applying to multiple versions?
<Lns> i forget where we went with that conversation
<alkisg> What about it? That's what categories were useful for
<alkisg> Multiple versions = multiple categories
<alkisg> And someone can select a category and see all the relevant documentation
<alkisg> Tags... new era!
<Lns> alkisg: adding to a category doesn't automatically insert a header right? maybe we can use both, just to cover all bases
<Lns> oh i forgot about how to use categories. =p
<Lns> nm
<Lns> I like the flashy header though, its hard to miss. we don't want people to miss what versions its applicable to
<alkisg> No... but that would just be trouble for you. Do the right thing to organize the pages (=categories) and others will follow your lead! :P :D
<Lns> especially if they don't go through categories to get to the page (any linked URL or whatever will bypass that)
<alkisg> It'll still show to the bottom of the page
<Lns> rihgt
<Lns> but it won't be "in the faces" of the readers which is bad if they're not sure if it applies to them or not, and don't know to look to the bottom of the page
<Lns> or follow all the directions, just to hit the bottom of the page to see its not for their version ;)
<alkisg> I think you could ask the wiki devs to put a header for each ubuntu version = category...
<alkisg> Seems logical to me, I bet they'll like the idea
<Lns> Well the wiki is still small enough to change later. I'm just trying to clean things up right now.. maybe later we can implement all that too
<alkisg> It's not only about ltsp, it would be useful for all wiki pages
<Lns> alkisg: agreed
<Lns> whew! that was a project and a half =p
<Lns> Still need to add the footers, just did the headers.
<Lns> But we want to add categories for releases before that obviously. I'm running short on time :(
<alkisg> Lns ftw! Need any help? (not now, it's almost midnight here, but tomorrow I'll have much free time)
<Lns> alkisg: sure, that would be awesome if you could help with that
<Lns> e-mail me if you're able to slam it out tomorrow
<Lns> I'm out for now..bbl
<alkisg> ok, bb!
<Lns> back, for anyone who cares ;)
#edubuntu 2009-01-24
<LaserJock> evening all
<calimer--> hiyda :D
<calimer--> er hiya :D
<LaserJock> how are things going?
<calimer> pretty good but stressful
<calimer> I'm trying to not let this voting for sb thing get to me too much
<calimer> I can't wait until it is over
<LaserJock> heh
<calimer> and I got an e-mail to talk at some IGDA conferences which is kind of cool
<calimer> independent game conference and game education summit
<LaserJock> cool
<calimer> yeah I'm really hoping this stuff can open the doors for sandbox
<calimer> and really get it in schools
<calimer> sb isn't even close to its potential
<calimer> but anyway
<calimer> haha
<calimer> oh yeah and we have the debian packages just about set, I have to write the man pages and I think that is the last piece of the puzzle
<LaserJock> calimer: awesome, congrats
<calimer> its congrats to everyone, and mostly to the kids
<calimer> it is just my dream to really get it to them so that is why I push it a bit, hopefully not too much haha
<calimer> how are things on your end?
<LaserJock> decent
<LaserJock> I just uploaded KDE Edu 4.2.0
<LaserJock> we also had some discussion about user management
<calimer> ah cool
<calimer> I really need to get ubuntu on my nix drive
<calimer> that mandrake 10.1 is soo ancient
<calimer> I'm sure things have come a real long way
<calimer> btw I was trying to think of a way to somehow manage all these educational games and software
<calimer> I was thinking about making an area on my webpage or maybe it should even just have its own webpage
<calimer> there is so much awesome educational software but from what I'm aware of no central place to really find out what is out there
<calimer> because grabbing edubuntu of course :)
<calimer> and also articles on educational software and such
<calimer> and I should make a game making resources page on my site too that lists free dev software and resources
<LaserJock> well, what's really hard it to find a list of educational software that give syou an idea of the quality of the software
<calimer> I'd like to help change that
<calimer> maybe even a way for people to add their own comments and experiences on the software too
<LaserJock> right
<calimer> I need to put this in my todo hah
<calimer> a
<calimer> so much to do
<LaserJock> calimer: check out this spec https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuApplicationReview
<calimer> interesting, doesn't look too complicated, I hope haha
<LaserJock> calimer: there's also brainstorm.ubuntu.com/education
<calimer> how do I add? propse a goal?
<calimer> wow sandbox would be perfect for that
<calimer> thanks for pointing that out!
<calimer> that reminds me I want to pitch sb to museums
<calimer> they could create historical places so we could have a 3D walkthrough!
<LaserJock> yeah
<calimer> some guy suggested using it to make a game to teach kids vocabulary
<calimer> I think that is a great idea as well, we already have the code to have several different npc dialog options
<calimer> so npcs could quiz the kids and if they get it right they get some points
<calimer> get enough points and they can get a super power like flying or jumpping high or something
<LaserJock> reminds me kinda of what some people are doing with Second Life
<calimer> what are they doing?
<LaserJock> I know a chemistry professor that uses it for quizzes and things for his class
<calimer> ah interesting
<calimer> do you have his contact info? I would love to chat with him about it
<calimer> see if I can get any of that into SB
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know if I do
<calimer> I'm so glad that sb is finally starting to catch on a bit
<calimer> there is such unlimited potential
<Meshezabeel> calimer: are you talking about a specific sandbox app?
<calimer> yeah, http://kids.platinumarts.net
<Meshezabeel> calimer: sounds neat, any videos of it anywhere?
<Meshezabeel> oh, guess youtube has some ;)
<Meshezabeel> If successful the tab will say VOTED next to ""Standbox"".
 * Ahmuck bumps the channel
<Ahmuck> so someone was telling me i could install ubuntu or xubuntu on the stand alone machines and then use local apps and would in fact get the same type of setup with fat clients?
<Ahmuck> central login, central software managment?
<Ahmuck> central /home storage?
<nubae> hmmm, standalone machines?
<Ahmuck> 1ghz, 256mb ram
<Ahmuck> i really need to move to fat clients for what were trying to do/test/etc.
<Ahmuck> a type of fat client
<nubae> so, use fatclient, whats teh problem?
<Ahmuck> and i've been confused
<nubae> I suppose what they meant to say that ltsp fatclient, is very similar to running a standalone fat client
<Ahmuck> actually iirc, they were telling me that local apps were a type of fat client
<nubae> well, no
<Ahmuck> well, iirc, i could never get the fat clients to connect to the inet
<nubae> localapps are a single application running in the chroot of a thin client
<nubae> well, thats not normal... many people are running fatclient, and there have been no problems with internet connectivity
<nubae> but if I recall, you had something weird with yourd driver
<nubae> nvidia driver iirc
<nubae> if u need just some apps running fat, use localapps, if u need the whole computer running fat, use fatclient
<Ahmuck> one of the issues i had about fact clients is i would be maintaining two seperate installations
<Ahmuck> i'm wondering if there is a way to get a fat client without having a sepearte build?
<Ahmuck> when would i need the whole computer running fat?
<Ahmuck> in truth, i really only need certian apps running fat, those that would require local graphics, or processor speed
<Ahmuck> actually, local graphics ?
<nubae> well, as I understand it, there are still some issues with local apps saving to local usb stick and firefox printing, that kind of thing...
<nubae> but yes, u must maintain 2 seperate chroots... the thin client one and the fat client one
<bsnyder> i'm trying to install 8.10 desktop on an ibm netvista and faling - 1) boot from cd, 2) select english, 3) select install, 4) monitor powers off
<bsnyder> i can't figure out why the monitor keeps powering off - the pc seems to just be completely idle (no activity on cd drive)
<bsnyder> my intention is to install the edubuntu add-on after this
<bsnyder> any have any idea why the monitor keeps powering off?
<alkisg> bsnyder: try pressing F6 two times at the boot screen and playing with `nolapic` and the other kernel parameters there. If that fails, try installing from the alternate ubuntu cd. If that fails, ask at #ubuntu! :P :D
<bsnyder> alkisg: thanks, i'll give that a shot
<Ahmuck> what does local apps do?  offload the proc, mem, vidoe to the local pc?
<Ahmuck> i thought that was fat client?
<nubae> local apps = 1 app
<nubae> fatclient = whole system
<Ahmuck> local app, one app at a a time?
<nubae> yeah
<Ahmuck> actually, i can't see most people being focused on more than one fat app at a a time
<Ahmuck> have you?
<Ahmuck> hi bsnyder
<bsnyder> hello
<mattva01> anyone know the best way to diagnose ltsp issues on edubuntu?
<alkisg> mattva01: be a little more specific...
<mattva01> i have an edubuntu 8.10 box running ltsp, from a client computer configured with a static ip I can ping it, but can't get dhcp to hand out address, wireshark seems to show that its not even getting the requests. This is driving me up a wall, as it was working several weeks ago
<alkisg> Is dhcp server running? Do you have a firewall? Did you change some switch (some of them may cut broadcasted traffic)?
<mattva01> does anyone know?
<mattva01> dhcp is running and no firewall
<alkisg> Try connecting the client to the server with a crossover cable
<mattva01> ok, i'll try that
<triak> hi, I'm running ltsp5 and iTalc as ltsp-localapp, my problem is with ldm. Power down button does not work in the panel, i think this because the service is not run under root privileges. How/Can I run ica-launcher as root?
<triak> has anyone done something similar?
<alkisg> triak: I've never installed italc locally, but see if this helps: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
<mattva01> alkisg:switch was broken, thanks for the help :)
<alkisg> mattva01: yw
<triak> alkisg: thanks. i have to look on that one
<calimer> I have a trailer I'm working on of kids enjoying platinum arts sandbox, a free 3d game maker
<calimer> and I was wondering if anyone would be willing to give me feedback on it
<Meshezabeel-away> calimer: heading out the door right now, but I'd love to see the trailer and comment on it when I get back
<calimer> sounds good, thanks!
<calimer> I should be around, trying to figure out how to add text and such D:
<Meshezabeel-away> calimer: back
<calimer> http://kids.platinumarts.net/sbkidtrailer.avi
<calimer> trying to find a way to annotate it but just going to use youtube for now
<Meshezabeel> what editor do you use?
<calimer> whatever I can find, haha
<calimer> for that video I used virtualdub
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvy3h3z8cvw
<Meshezabeel> calimer: what intended audience are you expecting for the trailer and what goals do you have associated with it?
<calimer> parents, teachers, kids,  to get it into schools and to kids
<Meshezabeel> so is the trailer meant for people who haven't really heard of sand box before?
<calimer> yep
<calimer> I'm going to do another one of the game play options soon as well
<calimer> going through the different maps and game mdoes
<Meshezabeel> okay, here is my critique. I think the video is too long because mostly it is just jumping around. People that are just learning about sand box are going to be wondering what else can be done besides just jumping around and may watch the whole video and get nothing else out of it. I think the best thing to do is to shorten down the video quite a bit. Also, for this type of video, I would recommend voice overs rather than text
<Meshezabeel> captions explaining what the different parts of the video are about. Lastly, I would recommend actually interviewing the kids and asking them what they think of sand box, etc.
<calimer> okay maybe I should make a note that there is a tutorial video
<calimer> interviewing them is tough because of protecting their safety
<Meshezabeel> indeed, I was thinking of that too
<calimer> I think I'll make a note that this video is kids having fun, and if you want to know about creating in it then check out our tutorial video
<Meshezabeel> yes, either make the note at the beginning of the video, or in the youtube text comments.
<calimer> thanks for your observations, that is some good insight
<calimer> I was thinking of shortening it a bit but I like watching her go into edit mode when she is supposed to be trying to jump haha
<Meshezabeel> no problem, and I hope I didn't offend.
<Meshezabeel> how many people work on the project?
<calimer> two, haha
<calimer> no you didnt' offend me at all
<calimer> I love constructive criticism
<calimer> only way to improve
<calimer> er, not only way, but one of the best ways :D
<Meshezabeel> indeed, but also realize that you also enjoy it more for sentimental reasons (because she is your daughter (I assume)), whereas if you were watching some other random kid play you probably wouldn't care as much. And of course there's sentimental reasons being your project as well.
<calimer> and just FYI I don't know these kids personally
<calimer> this was a father sending me a 19 min vid
<Meshezabeel> haha, lol
<calimer> and me editing it
<calimer> and of course checking with them to make sure it was okay
<calimer> I don't think they are even from the US
<calimer> I enjoy it because I like seeing kids happy :)
<Meshezabeel> yeah, sometimes you want to make sure you get a written autorization when getting permission to use other people's kids in a video. Though maybe e-mail communication is good enough.
<calimer> yeah I talked to them in IRC
#edubuntu 2009-01-25
<calimer> and showed them the video before putting it up
<Meshezabeel> good good
<Meshezabeel> so who started the sand box project?
<calimer> me
<Meshezabeel> cool :)
<calimer> I started it for some kids in my afterschool program
<calimer> I got some computers into our program and put tuxpaint and childsplay on there
<calimer> but I wanted them to be able to create their own worlds and stories
<calimer> and thus sandbox was born
<Meshezabeel> how long ago did you start it?
<calimer> I think it is about 2 years ago now
<Meshezabeel> wow, you've done a lot of good work on it in just 2 years
<calimer> it is based off the cube 2 engine so we had a good base to work off of
<calimer> and hirato is an amazing coder in his own right
<calimer> a lot of people prefer to use sandbox to make their cube 2 maps :D
<Meshezabeel> cool :)
<calimer> maybe I should make a note that those aren't my kids
<Meshezabeel> maybe it doesn't really matter too much, most people watching the video aren't going to know you anyhow.
<Meshezabeel> but I guess you could always put a note that says something like "video submitted by amateur videographer" or "video submitted by Sand Box fan" etc.
<Meshezabeel> who did all the artwork?
<calimer> I put in "as a note this video is compiled from a happy father sending me a video of his kids having fun.  If this looks fun and you want to create games check out our popular tutorial video!
<Meshezabeel> sounds good :)
<calimer> I'm attempting to shorten it :)
<calimer> I tend to get a bit verbose
<Meshezabeel> haha :)
<calimer> depends which art you mean but varities of people
<calimer> and your comments are always welcome on any aspect of it
<calimer> also it is slated to go into edubuntu and ubuntu
<Meshezabeel> like all the different objects like trees, etc., a lot of good artwork and textures in there.
<calimer> I just have to write up the man pages and make sure the license stuff is all set :)
<Meshezabeel> awesome
<calimer> some was made for us, some from cube 2, some from random webpages
<calimer> unfortunately most is non commercial but we have a debian free version coming out
<calimer> but it has only one model, my box :\
<calimer> that was a key comment you made about it not being much use as a tutorial
<calimer> well not exactly those words
<calimer> but I think that was a really good point, I really like the annotation in there now that gives them a heads up of what they are instore for
<calimer> its the top related video so they better be able to find it easily :D
<Meshezabeel> haha :) yeah, I like your interview I just saw on youtube
<calimer> people seem to really like that tutorial video
<calimer> I don't know what is so special about it but good thing they do like it :D
<calimer> I can't wait until this top 10 crap is over
<calimer> it is so distracting
<calimer> but really a chance to give sandbox some rep so I'm torn, haha
<Meshezabeel> I think people like it because it gives people a good overview of what it is all about and what its goals are. There's also good video footage of a lot of things in the gameplay. You also have a good narration voice which helps make the video more enjoyable.
<calimer> thanks! thanks mom and dad for that voice!
<Meshezabeel> hahaha :)
<calimer> I need to do some more
<calimer> I can't wait to do this gameplay trailer thing
<calimer> just to show off all of our cool modes
<Meshezabeel> yeah, that would be cool
<calimer> hirato started doing a sidescroller!
<calimer> that is some cool stuff :D
<calimer> and going to show off the rpg
<Meshezabeel> side scroller with the same 3d engine?
<calimer> yep
<calimer> 3d sidescroller
<Meshezabeel> okay :)
<calimer> -gssp in the console
<Meshezabeel> I used to love the Mario sidescrollers :)
<calimer> to the launch
<calimer> yeah hirato wants me to make save the princess maps for the sidescroller
<calimer> which of course I will :D
<Meshezabeel> haha :)
<calimer> so yeah you should be getting some of that good ol action :)
<calimer> he added this flying armor that is kind of like the racoon tail in super mario 3
<Meshezabeel> hehe, at least it's not a helicopter hat ;)
<calimer> that would be awesome
<Meshezabeel> lol :) it would definitely be funny
<calimer> finally those hats would have a purpose
<Meshezabeel> haha, indeed, beanie hats I think they were called
<calimer> I must get one
<Meshezabeel> http://images.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&q=propeller+hat&btnG=Search+Images
<calimer> I didn't know some had brims
<calimer> I'm all about the no brim factor
<Meshezabeel> yeah, I didn't either
<calimer> I think I have added enough annotations for one day haha
<Meshezabeel> haha, get's tiring after a while, eh?
<calimer> been working on that video since I woke up
<calimer> so it has been like an 8-9 hour project believe it or not
<calimer> hey LaserJock :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvy3h3z8cvw
<LaserJock> hi
<LaserJock> calimer: very nice
<calimer> I should make a vid sometime of the kids work from the kids camp
<calimer> but anyway that is the fruit of my saturday haha
<nothingman> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi nothingman
<nothingman> what's new?
<LaserJock> hmm, not sure
<LaserJock> I talked to the Ubuntu gnome maintainer yesterday about Gnome's Users and Groups tool
<nothingman> neat
<LaserJock> sorta
<nothingman> oh>
<nothingman> ?
<LaserJock> he basically said it's dead unless we want to take it over
<nothingman> hrm
<LaserJock> so ...
<nothingman> yeah
<LaserJock> we might want to put "write a new user and group admin tool" to our TODO list :-)
<nothingman> has anyone here worked on integration of VirtualBox in a fat client?
<nothingman> I know I talked about this a bit before, but couldn't be bothered to look for responses, or anything silly like that
<nothingman> just babblin' about niftyness like I do
<nothingman> and I'm also wondering about the sugar emulator and empathy
<nothingman> and I'd like to be able to disconnect a fat client from the server and walk about and have the wireless take over
<nothingman> and I want a stable for my new pony
<LaserJock> heh
<nothingman> is anyone working on any of these things that you know of, LJ?
<LaserJock> nothingman: http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/2/23/pony.jpg
<LaserJock> nothingman: I don't know about the fat client ones, I don't *think* so but could be wrong
<nothingman> ah, and here I thought you were at work fulfilling my wishlist... get on with you! yah!
<nothingman> well, can sugar be run from a thin client?
<LaserJock> nothingman: I think nubae is thinking about the sugar collabiration stuff
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> nubae's done it
<nothingman> yeah, I've read his stuff
<nothingman> does anyone else here have an extensive CV like his habari?
<nothingman> I know you do a lot of work, but that's from talking to you about it
<nothingman> at least, what little I know, like logging the chats and updating the page
<nothingman> so I assume more, since you're active
<nothingman> what about a limited, multiple-login user account?  is there any information on that available?
<LaserJock> nothingman: multiple logins from the same account
<nothingman> yeah
<nothingman> like, "student" with no password, or the school's name as the password
<nothingman> or maybe "first" "second" "third", etc, for all students in an individual grade
<LaserJock> that really doesn't work well
<LaserJock> I don't know how we can figure out how to do that, other than not using Gnome or KDE
<nothingman> well, I'd just like to be able to set up a unified desktop, and allow the younger students to get where they need to with little help
<nothingman_> sorry, got cut off
<LaserJock> nothingman: perhaps we could use "disposable" accounts
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how guest accounts are done right now, they may do that already
<nothingman_> yeah
<nothingman_> with a skeleton for what menus are available and such, but any changes would get thrown away
<LaserJock> nothingman: the problem is that for each active login you need a separate user/$HOME
<LaserJock> so if you had it create the user on login it'd probably work
<nothingman_> similar to Windows' SteadyState
<nothingman_> but couldn't I just have a $HOME for 'student' or 'fifth' or whatever?
<nothingman_> and it would be created as a ramdisk on the client logging in
<nothingman_> so if the files are changed, no biggie just unmount and exit
<nothingman_> that way several users could log in as the user at once, be authenticated, have access to just what they needed, and be done
<nothingman_> oh, and of course I wonder how one would implement user switching and persistent sessions for 'actual' users
<nothingman_> but that's science fiction atm :-P
<stgraber> I have written a daemon for ltsp-cluster that does account creation/cleaning for guest login
<stgraber> but it's sort of ltsp specific
<LaserJock> stgraber: ah, awesome
<stgraber> as it basically creates an account based on the base64 of the ip, then add the supplied public ssh key to the .ssh/authorized_keys
<stgraber> then returns the username back to the thin client that then uses it for autologin
<stgraber> in this mode you don't even see the login screen and get a clean session every-time (the daemon takes care of remaining process and mount points)
<stgraber> code is on https://code.launchpad.net/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-cluster-accountmanager
<stgraber> hmm, 404
<stgraber> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-cluster-team/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-cluster-accountmanager
<nothingman_> stgraber: so this is an auto-login script?
<stgraber> this is a daemon to generate unique user accounts to use for auto-login
<stgraber> but is designed for ltsp environments so if you're using regular desktops you may have to do quite a few changes
<nothingman_> right
<nothingman_> OK
<nothingman_> very cool
<nothingman_> like the SteadyState that I mentioned earlier
<nubae> greets stgraber, LaserJock
<nubae> hmmmmm its 5, must get sleep.....
<LaserJock> hi nubae
<LaserJock> yeah, it's almost time to get up
<nubae> LaserJock: where i at?
<nubae> i/yoou
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm at home, and it's only 8pm
<Meshezabeel> nothingman_: can't you just have a bootup or shutdown script that will replace the desired $HOME dirs with /etc/skel (or other specificied directory)?
<nothingman_> Meshezabeel: remember these are client machines, so having a copy of those files *away* from the server with appropriate permissions would be best
<nothingman_> better to have the files temporarily copied than try to lock down a shared set and fail
<nothingman_> but: must join wife in bed, read, sleep and wake up for work tomorrow
<Meshezabeel> have a good night :)
<nothingman_> I'll keep this window open
<nothingman_> you all do the same
<Meshezabeel> calimer: you still around?
<calimer> yep!
<calimer> just watching the fedor fight
<LaserJock> ?
<calimer> affliction
<calimer> fedor best fighter in the world
<Meshezabeel> calimer: okay, not sure who that is :)
<calimer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko
<calimer> he just crushed another UFC champion, after dana white (head of the UFC) said he was trash
<Meshezabeel> calimer: An off topic question, but I am considering transfering my project from java to cpp, I noticed you mention that you code in code::blocks, but compile in in Visual Studio, just wondering why you can't compile in code::blocks?
<LaserJock> calimer: heh, I thought you were talking about a fedora fight on a mailing list or something :-)
<calimer> wait when did I say that Meshezabeel :D
<calimer> haha that sounds intense LaserJock
<Meshezabeel> calimer: oh, I thought you did in your sand box interview
<calimer> battle of the distros
<LaserJock> well, I've been reading some good ones lately
<calimer> I compile in codeblocks and code in a text editor
<LaserJock> Gnome VCS, Linus' moving from KDE to Gnome, etc.
<calimer> that's unfortunate actually
<calimer> kind of against the spirit of nix
<calimer> live and let live and help others live
<Meshezabeel> why is moving from KDE to Gnome against the spirit of *nix?
<calimer> fighting about it is
<Meshezabeel> oh, lol :)
<Meshezabeel> we are all misunderstanding tonight, hehe
 * LaserJock gets his boxing gloves on
<calimer> I'll give fedor a call
<Meshezabeel> we all know that Minix is better anyhow
<calimer> xfce is the champion
<Meshezabeel> :)
<calimer> gnome has too much unnecessary overhead
<calimer> HEHE
<calimer> but yeah I only maintain the visual studio project for other people
<calimer> I hate even having on my computer
<calimer> all the stupid dependancies
<calimer> dependencies
<Meshezabeel> so why can't others just use code::blocks?
<calimer> they hopefully do
<calimer> because our main instructions for compiling it are for codeblocks
<calimer> it is really easy
<calimer> I had 6th graders adding their own code and compiling it haha
<calimer> adding new monsters and such
<Meshezabeel> wow :)
<Meshezabeel> that's awesome
<calimer> yeah it was pretty cool
<calimer> this one kid took my block model and turned it into a monster
<calimer> and made this map where there was a whole stack of blocks
<calimer> I didn't know what was up and then went near them and all of a sudden they came flying at me
<Meshezabeel> lol :)
<calimer> it was pretty awesome
<Meshezabeel> kids can sure surprise you :)
<calimer> had some other kids where they put in tons of quests
<calimer> to find objects and such
<calimer> and multiple dialog options
<calimer> oh and I taught them SVN :)
<calimer> we had our own svn server
<calimer> much easier for when they had script questions
<Meshezabeel> wow, lol, I don't even know SVN ;)
<calimer> I could sit at my desk and look at it instead of having to lean over their shoulders
<calimer> yeah and this way they could checkout at home too and work, commit, and have it for in class too
<Meshezabeel> cool
<calimer> and made it easy so we could play each other's maps on the last day
<calimer> a lot of them we played together at the same time
<calimer> like the save the princess maps :)
<LaserJock> calimer: what? you didn't teach them git? :-)
<Meshezabeel> yeah, I wish I had known about sandbox last year, I just left a k-12 school I had worked at for 9 years.
<calimer> maybe I should look up git :D
<Meshezabeel> but, I still help out at that school once in a while, so I'd like to get it installed on the machines there anyhow.
<calimer> git seems linux only
<calimer> awesome!
<calimer> I think my favorite experience ever was when I was telling teachers about it at a school i was subbing at
<LaserJock> calimer: it's not quite linux only but it's much better on OS X/Linux because it's mostly C/Bash
<calimer> and one teacher really wanted to show his kids, and his kids for a class need an alternative learning environment
<calimer> and when I showed kids sandbox the teacher said it was the most motivated he's ever seen them
<calimer> and the kids were getting their work done just to get a chance to use sandbox
<Meshezabeel> At 4:30 on http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WztnXKda4fI it sounds like you use code::blocks to code and visual studio to compile ;)
<calimer> I make sure both work but I make the binaries with codeblocks
<Meshezabeel> yeah, a good way for the sub to get kids to pay attention too :) Normally, kids like to give subs a hard time.
<calimer> it was kids for his class I meant
<calimer> that you know had outside troubles and such
<calimer> that is why that experience means a bit to me because it potentially made a difference in their lives towards the positive
<calimer> well it definitely did, I just hope enough for them
<Meshezabeel> yeah, and many of these kids don't have anything positive in their lives, so this is a good way to motivate them
<calimer> well it was so nice too because before they were so negative and didn't want to do any work and such
<calimer> and then with sb and me they were so proud showing me what they made
<Meshezabeel> cool :)
<calimer> that was all volunteer stuff, not when I was subbing
<calimer> it was funny when kids tried to give me a hard time
<calimer> because I would come right back at them and put them in their place, haha
<Meshezabeel> hehe
<Meshezabeel> yeah, give them the unexpected and you stop them in their tracks ;)
<calimer> one kid kept saying tomato tomato tomato because my last name is tomaino
<calimer> so I spent some time sounding out the letters for him
<Meshezabeel> haha, lol
<calimer> the whole class was laughing so hard
<Meshezabeel> hehe, yeah, I can imagine
<calimer> and at the end I said congrats you graduated 1st grade
<calimer> nnnnnnnn ooooooooooo nnnnnnnnnnnn ooooooooooo that makes no
<Meshezabeel> yeah, now I'm teaching post-secondary, but definitely miss teaching the younger ones, they can be fun at times ;)
<calimer> yeah I enjoyed subbing, except for 7th and 8th
<calimer> mainly because of the curriculum
<calimer> one time in english I had just had to give them a packet to read and complete, and it was the same packet both days, due monday!
<Meshezabeel> hmmm
<calimer> btw my coder hirato likes to compile the windows binaries on nix haha
<calimer> which I yell at him about
<Meshezabeel> haha, are there problems doing that?
<calimer> no but I just hate 800 binaries in our svn
<calimer> when he compiles a binary it is outdated that day
<Meshezabeel> 800?
<calimer> well each binary uploaded to the svn is saved as a copy
<calimer> so it is unnecessarily bloating my hd space
<Meshezabeel> hehe
<calimer> he is one smart guy though for sure
<calimer> and he just turned 17!
<Meshezabeel> wow
<LaserJock> amazing how young some people are
<LaserJock> we've had Ubuntu developers as young as 12
<Meshezabeel> yeah, I've seen kids on youtube who are probably 12 or younger giving C++ tutorials on youtube.
<LaserJock> and one of the primary compiz guys was ~14 when he started hacking on it
<LaserJock> he had to have his mom come with him to an Ubuntu Developer Summit
<LaserJock> :-)
<Meshezabeel> lol, I'm sure that was an awesome experience for him :)
<LaserJock> I think it was, especially because it was in Spain
<Meshezabeel> Wow
<LaserJock> or wait, that was Paris
<Meshezabeel> I wonder what his mom thought of it all
<LaserJock> she liked it
<LaserJock> she just got to hang out
<Meshezabeel> cool :)
<LaserJock> 1 week Paris vacation
<Meshezabeel> yeah, you can't beat that
<LaserJock> the food was horrible though, yuck
<Meshezabeel> really?
<LaserJock> yeah, the hotel food was the worst ever
<LaserJock> once you got into the cafes in downtown Paris it was much better
<LaserJock> but I went to McDonalds and Subway
<calimer> ha that's cool stuff
<LaserJock> Paris is just too expensive for me
<Meshezabeel> lol, I always thought Parisian food was supposed to be good ;)
<LaserJock> stupid $3 bottle of water
<calimer> I wish I had an earlier start but I wasn't allowed to play video games as a kid
<LaserJock> Meshezabeel: it can be, but like anywhere, you need to go to the right places
<Meshezabeel> yeah, video games are a bit too violent
<Meshezabeel> especially that Mario character, throwing all those fireballs at everyone
<calimer> it was probably because it was something fun
<LaserJock> and squashing everybody
<calimer> I wasn't allowed to watch tv either
<Meshezabeel> indeed
<LaserJock> and Duck Hunter, sheesh
<calimer> that dog
<Meshezabeel> no kidding
<calimer> he haunts your dreams
<Meshezabeel> I actually had that game
<calimer> I played it at my cousins
<Meshezabeel> he'd always laugh at you for missing
<LaserJock> mhm
<calimer> they made a flash game where you can shoot the dog
<calimer> but it doesn't have any ducks
<LaserJock> hehe
<calimer> they need one where you can shoot the ducks but if the dog laughs at you put one in his head
<Meshezabeel> hehe, no wonder you weren't allowed to play them :)
<calimer> I'm sure I'm not alone with that feeling
<Meshezabeel> yeah, you are probably right
<LaserJock> I've heard of people who've had serious issues because of that dog
<calimer> ha like what?
<calimer> that dog has caused lasting emotional scars
<Meshezabeel> Really? I actually don't ever remember disliking the dog that much, but it's been a long time, so you never know.
<calimer> I just thought he was kind of funny and annoying
<LaserJock> like sounds of laughing like that dog throws them into a rage
<calimer> that game did a good job of making itself immortal
<alkisg> !numlockx
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about numlockx
<alkisg> !info numlockx
<ubottu> numlockx (source: numlockx): enable NumLock in X11 sessions. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1-9 (intrepid), package size 10 kB, installed size 88 kB
<alkisg> Could numlockx be among the packages installed in an Ubuntu ltsp chroot? It would be nice to have numlock "on" as a default, students often try to type numbers on the numpad while it's turned off...
<stgraber> alkisg: did your try LDM_NUMLOCK=True ?
<alkisg> stgraber: trying...
<alkisg> stgraber, nope, not working, and I don't see "LDM_NUMLOCK" anywhere it the sources (apart from an old lts.conf example from k12linux dir)
<alkisg> There is an X_NUMLOCK lts.conf directive though, which would work if numlockx was installed in the chroot
<nothingman> hi, all
#edubuntu 2010-01-25
 * HedgeMage waves good night
<sbalneav> Evening all
 * alkisg notes that in ltsp 5.1.98, ldm-server.postinst hangs and a `service openbsd-inetd restart` is needed from another terminal to unhang it
<ogra> probably because openbsd-inetd isnt upstartified yet ?
<alkisg> Oh. /me passes on everything upstart related :D
<alkisg> It's a very nice thing I'm sure but I don't know anything about it yet
<ogra> check what the postinst uses
<sbalneav> Morning all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> Good morning :)
<HedgeMage> How are you today?
<sbalneav> I'm doing ok.
<sbalneav> Yesterday it was about 1C, very unseasonably warm for Manitoba at this time of year.
<sbalneav> Today it's -15C, with a blizzard :(
<sbalneav> Lots of shovelling to do when I get home today.
<Tm_T> been -25 Â°C for a week or more, and still continuing that way <3
<HedgeMage> We had a warm day yesterday, too, but now it's snowing again.
<sbalneav> Interesting
<sbalneav> http://www.cio.com.au/article/333686/nz_school_ditches_microsoft_goes_totally_open_source
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: hey!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: next year this time you should come down and visit and escape the cold :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Where, to Sherbrooke? :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: no in cape town!
<sbalneav> But you'll be in Sherbrooke!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'll probably do like old people from now on and chase summer :)
<sbalneav> heh
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: hi there :)
<sbalneav> For everyone's info, Ahmuck's talking to me in #frogandowl, says he's got some graphics artists potentialli interested in doing some art for us for backgrounds.
<sbalneav> What kind of license should this artwork be licensed under?
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Ideal would be CC-BY-SA
<sbalneav> Does that allow commercial redistribution?
<alkisg> Redistribution by whom? The artists themselves? They're not restricted by the license they choose...
<sbalneav> No, I'm thinking a commercial entity that may want to issue an edubuntu remix.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: cool
<sbalneav> BTW, for everyone's info, Ahmuck indicates: "ya, i've left the project of sorts"
<highvoltage> sbalneav: CC-BY-SA is cool, it's the -NC one that we can't use
<sbalneav> ok, I'll indicate that to him
<joerg__> uhh
<joerg__> german internet is like in a development country :)
<joerg__> probably even worse
<HedgeMage> joerg__: Some parts of the US are like that, too.
<highvoltage> seems like people everywhere has internet problems the last few days
<highvoltage> I wonder if there's some specific kind of big bug or compromise in some kinds of routers that we're all affected by
<sbalneav> I'm blaming solar flare.  Either that or a Mass Neutrino Event
<sbalneav> http://www.physorg.com/news183149936.html
<highvoltage> what's dhillion-v10's name again?
<highvoltage> ah got it
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hmm, interesting
#edubuntu 2010-01-26
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: hi there :)
<dhillon-v10> stgraber: hi :)
<dhillon-v10> stgraber: have a look here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+bug/511790
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 511790 in ubuntu-qa-website "bug graphs are not displaying" [Undecided,New]
<dhillon-v10> stgraber: I want to go ahead and fix this one, so where can I find the sources
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.98-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 101 kB, installed size 1256 kB
<dgroos> Good Morning
<dgroos> I'm trying to make the 'auto-computer' group work in iTALC and don't seem to be able,  I'm using LTSP.  Any ideas?
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: does anyone know specifically what art needs to be re-engerized?
<Ahmuck> i assume the splash screen, and desktop background
<Ahmuck> what others?
<sbalneav> Those are the two that I know of.  I had also updated in my ppa the gartoon redux theme.
<sbalneav> Icon theme, sorry.
<sbalneav> I'm not sure if anyone other than me has looked at it or tested it.
 * alkisg is doing `apt-get purge edubuntu-artwork` as the first command after an edubuntu installation 8-)
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> Whoohoo!!!
<sbalneav> LTSP is officially no longer the "package with the most bugs" in Edubuntu! :)
<sbalneav> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<alkisg> I'm sure that would happen eventually, even if LTSP had an increasing number of bugs...
<alkisg> ...as pitiititiiitiiitiitvi is using an exp() function for a bug count :)
 * alkisg wonders why pitivi is part of edubuntu, though...
<highvoltage> alkisg: you missed an 'i' there
<alkisg> heh
<sbalneav> That is like, the worst name I've ever seen for a program.  I keep pronouncing it "Pee-TV", which makes me think it's a channel for toilet training babies.
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: regarding the artwork, pretty much everything, it's still a bit unclear to me how and what exactly is to be used in lucid
<sbalneav> alkisg: We used to have kino, which was the video editor.
 * highvoltage pronounces is "pity-V"
<highvoltage> americans say "pity-veye" which is kind of annoying
<alkisg> sbalneav: well, we also need an office suite, but since ubuntu has openoffice, we don't need to support it in edubuntu
<sbalneav> So, we're either toilet training babies, or feeling bad for a character in an Alan Moore comic novel :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: so, I suggest that we leave pitivi to Ubuntu, and support gimp if we want ;)
<sbalneav> Is pitivi shipped by default in regular Ubuntu?
<highvoltage> alkisg: pitivi is in ubuntu default installation now?
<ogra> its planned to
 * sbalneav isn't sure.
<alkisg> highvoltage: yes
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes then I guess we can ubsubscribe from it and also include gimp like you said
 * alkisg feels sorry that LTSP will again be the package with the most bugs in edubuntu :D
<highvoltage> alkisg: you're the last person who should feel sorry :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: changes made: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<alkisg> Heh, 75 bugs for gimp!
<highvoltage> yeah it brings our bug count that's been steadily coming down up again :)
<highvoltage> I agree that gimp is probably a bit 'much' for the 'average' user
<highvoltage> but I do think it has lots of potential and usefulness in an educational environment
 * alkisg uses it in both 12-15 y.o. schools and 15-18 y.o...
<alkisg> stgraber: about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/505787 - do you want it left open, as a reminder of the duplicate nbd-client process?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 505787 in ltsp "nbd-client /dev/nbd0 is ran twice, causing ldm to segfault" [Undecided,Fix released]
<alkisg> The ldm segfaulting was fixed, but not the duplicate process problem...
<stgraber> alkisg: well, I did a quick check yesterday, although we see nbd-client showing up twice (for nbd0, the nbd9 issue is fixed), it's normal as the second nbd-client is a child of the first
<stgraber> alkisg: look with ps faux, it'd be a bug if the second isn't a child of the first
<alkisg> Hmmm ok even though I don't understand why the bug was triggered now and not before...
<alkisg> Ah, one of those is nbd-proxy?
<stgraber> well, you should have nbd-proxy and nbd-client
<stgraber> if you have two nbd-client, the second should be a child of the first
<stgraber> otherwise, we have an issue
<alkisg> OK, got it
<alkisg> ty :)
<sbalneav> If pitivi's upstream in ubuntu, I'd say yeah, drop it, add gimp.
<alkisg> sbalneav: ehm too late, highvoltage already did it :)
<sbalneav> ah, perfect.
<sbalneav> We are shipping gimp, right?
<alkisg> Yup
<sbalneav> Hooray for gimp.
<sbalneav> heh, clicked on the gimp error count:
<sbalneav> Timeout error
<sbalneav> Our edge server has a lower timeout threshold than launchpad.net, so we can catch those before they hit a wider audience. As a member of the Launchpad Beta Testers team, you're more likely to experience them. If this is blocking your work, you can disable redirection.
<sbalneav> Disable redirection for 2 hours
<sbalneav> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.
<sbalneav> Weâve recorded what happened, and weâll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
<sbalneav> Trying again in a couple of minutes might work.
<sbalneav> (Error ID: OOPS-1487EB655)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1487EB655
<sbalneav> Gimp killed Launchpad
<Ahmuck> highvoltage: what is everything?
<Ahmuck> it's hard to start on artwork when one doesn't know the sizes
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Well, I think I indicated that no-one's had time to do the analysis, but if you wanted to take it on, that would be great.
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: ok, that would be everything as in the opposite of nothing for now...
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: I got a reply from Mads though for some wallpapers, going to post them to the list
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: a wallpaper is probably the starting point since the rest of our artwork would be built around it
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: so whatever we'll be using (plymouth/usplash/ldm/gdm/xsplash/etc) would need to be themed around that theme
<ogra> someone of you should start getting familiar with plymouth ;)
<ogra> (replaces usplash)
<highvoltage> ogra: I've been meaning to but I don't like to reboot my machines and it doesn't work under virtualbox...
<highvoltage> ogra: I'll use the CMPC ;)
<ogra> heh
<Ahmuck> what does ubuntu plan to put in place of gimp?
<Ahmuck> dropping gimp may get them to change thier ui
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I beleive Ubuntu's thought is that the photo editing tools within F-Spot are sufficient for people.
<sbalneav> We're still going to ship the gimp in Edubuntu.
<highvoltage> that's correct, and gimp also takes a lot of space
<Ahmuck> thanks.  so it looks like the artwork is covered by Mads for this release
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: not necessarilly
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: he submitted some work, others might too, we'll choose what's best by general consensus
<joerg_> hey....
<joerg_> can I somehow move blueprints?
<joerg_> just founded a new project for the school portal thing
<sbalneav> joerg_: Not sure.
<sbalneav> Links to new and old?
<joerg_> sbalneav, well....I wrote a blueprint and assigned it to ubuntu - you read it, didn't you? :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, and now I founded the "MyServ" project....
<sbalneav> joerg_: Yeah, there wasn't a wiki page set for it at the time I looked at it.
<joerg_> sbalneav, no, why should there be one? :D
<joerg_> sbalneav, everything is in the blueprint :P
<joerg_> why can't launchpad provide subversion access? :P
<sbalneav> joerg_: Launchpad uses bzr
<sbalneav> The blueprint that I saw had very little in it, apart from the description
<sbalneav> What's the link again?  I have it at home, but I'm at work ATM
<joerg_> well, what else should be in it? :)
<joerg_> I thought it is just there to describe an idea and build a network around that idea :)
<sbalneav> Well, typically, you want to define a spec (specification) on the wiki as well.
<sbalneav> Like this one:
<joerg_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-portal-server
<sbalneav> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Specifications/NewUserAdminTool
<sbalneav> joerg_: You want to do a fairly big project there.  Take me for instance.  I'd be interested in helping out with LDAP, since I'm farily well versed in it, and helped write part of the pam-ldap module.  But where should I begin to help? :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, it is not as big as it looks :P
<joerg_> sbalneav, first of all thanks.....I am quite sure I will need you.
<joerg_> sbalneav, look at the great webbased tools we already have....like roundcube webmail. the only thing you need to do is integrate it in an iframe.
<joerg_> sbalneav, and configure the single sign on stuff ;)
<joerg_> sbalneav, it is not much then bundle the things we already have and wrap some template around it with a changeable design and a navigation bar :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, the pinax guys have a lot of reusable apps ready to be used (we just need to make some templates) - e.g. for integrating blogs, wikis etc.
<joerg_> sbalneav, concering the auth thing....what do u think about LDAP + CAS?
<joerg_> sbalneav, CAS seems to be the only single sign on system for webapps that has a pam module as well.
<sbalneav> I've not heard about CAS, not sure what it is.
 * sbalneav looks
<sbalneav> this what you're talking about?
<sbalneav> http://www.jasig.org/cas
<joerg_> sbalneav, which can be very handy - imagine you have such a portal, if you use direct LDAP auth, you'd have to enter your password for the portal and then for e.g. roundcube webmail again. using CAS, you'd be authenticated by the CAS server which gives a ticket to the portal and to roundcube. roundcube then uses the ticket to get access to the imap server.
<joerg_> sbalneav, yes
<sbalneav> Why not use Kerberos?
<sbalneav> http://modauthkerb.sourceforge.net/
<joerg_> mhhm....
<joerg_> sbalneav, how would that work then? in a web based environment?
<joerg_> sbalneav, I haven't really thought about krb, as CAS seemed to be so easy and nice....providing an own little webserver taking care of the auth and even providing users with an openid that they could easily use to sign in at google or wherever.
<Lns> eww, java :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, my former university uses it as a single sign on solution for heaps of stuff, squirrelmail, moodle etc.
<sbalneav> Well, with kerberos, when they sign on at the workstation, then they'd have a ticket to everything on the network.
<sbalneav> joerg_: I'm not saying you couldn't use CAS.  I'm just not familiar with it myself.
<joerg_> sbalneav, that's nice but they certainly don't sign on that way :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, because students are sitting at home using daddy's computer :)
<sbalneav> So, this isn't geared towards a lab environment then?
<joerg_> sbalneav, I didn't say I am not able to change my mind and use krb :P
<joerg_> sbalneav, this is geared towards a public web solution that works the same way at home as it does in the class room.
<sbalneav> ok, gotcha
<joerg_> as far as my experience is, students and especially (!) teachers need to have easy structures - and they are very confused if sign on in the class room works differently than at home :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, it depends on the school - but a lot of them don't sign on their workstations to anything at all :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, high schools are using it a bit more - like my old school, they sign on and mount samba shares (home and group dirs) from a linux server....but mostly they just use a web gui to upload files because they are lazy :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, I just wonder: couldn't a solution offer kerberos and cas? or wouldn't that make sense? those who have workstation sign on I mean.
<sbalneav> I'm sure it could, with enough code :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, ok, then let's write it on some agenda and forget it for now :)
<joerg_> sbalneav, btw. how would windoze workstations authenticate if they needed to? using LDAP I mean?
<joerg_> with some samba domain controller?
<joerg_> what they do now is: they install pGina (www.pgina.org) and authenticate against IMAPS :)
<joerg_> quick and dirty ;)
<Ahmuck> LDAP/AD
<Ahmuck> mechinism i would suppose
<joerg_> samba?
<Ahmuck> nm, i've not backread
<sbalneav> AD would be the way.
<joerg_> AD is LDAP isn't it? :)
<joerg_> ldap + krb or whatever :)
<sbalneav> ldap + krb + some local Microsoft additions.
<sbalneav> It's the last part of the equation that causes the difficulties :)
<joerg_> well....and what daemons need to run on the linux server? slapd + krb? :P
<alkisg> Are you talking about samba as a PDC?
<joerg_> alkisg, no
<joerg_> I am talking about how to authenticate a windows machine to a linux server running ldap
<joerg_> with the minimum possible effort :)
<alkisg> Where's its home directory?
<alkisg> *his
<joerg_> don't know yet :P
<alkisg> If it's on the linux server, the home would be shared by samba
<alkisg> And samba can use ldap as a backend
<joerg_> true
<alkisg> The workstations could also join the domain
<joerg_> which only makes more work for the admin :P
<alkisg> pgina has been dead upstream for some years afaik
<joerg_> well, thats the problem, yes.
<joerg_> the thing is....we had the samba stuff running and nobody was using it
<joerg_> auth using pgina against the imap server
<joerg_> mounting home dirs from the samba server of course
<joerg_> but not really joining the domain etc.
<joerg_> our admins install and configure one machine and then clone the partition to 30 other machines.
<joerg_> which doesn't work with the domain joining stuff ;)
<alkisg> Cloning windows boxes without sysprep has its problems as well
<alkisg> Common CID/SID making network browsing problematic
<Ahmuck> clonezilla
<Ahmuck> sysprep & clonezilla
<joerg_> we never had any problems with that ;)
<joerg_> maybe because they change the hostname after cloning the machines?
<joerg_> oh well, and our machines don't act as netbios servers....
<joerg_> so they are not visible in some network neighborhoud
<joerg_> they don't have anything to share :)
<Ahmuck> you can change the hostname prior iirc, provided you have a naming scheme ?
<Ahmuck> ah, netbios :)
<joerg_> well, I am not doing the client stuff
<joerg_> it is up to them
<joerg_> I just know that they don't like the domain joining stuff
<joerg_> and they are right. what advantage does it give the machine if it is in the domain?
<joerg_> I'd personally love to get rid of samba completely
<joerg_> windows can mount webdav directories.....so why not exporting their home directories via webdav?
<joerg_> would have the big advantage that they can do that at home as well, which wouldn't work with samba.
<joerg_> sbalneav, concerning the newusertool: would be exactly what we need.....but we'd need to have it web based.... :-/
<sbalneav> Well, I'm not going to write a web based one, since you really DONT want a web based tool to add users.
<sbalneav> Too much potential for problems.
<sbalneav> Back on tonight.
<joerg_> mhhm
<joerg_> sbalneav, what problems do you see?
<joerg_> and how should teachers add users?
<joerg_> logon to the server using ltsp?
<joerg_> they will kill me if it gets that complicated
<joerg_> apart from that most portals allow people to register and create an account themselves :P
<joerg_> who cares if they use a web gui or some other ldap client so create users? they enter their ldap credentials and can create users. or not :P
<Lns> ideally you should be able to *choose* what you use to create users... kind of the *nix tradition
<tyoc213> Hi there, I have read that I can get help for installing LTSP, so my question is, Im on ubuntu 9.10 and have executed sudo ltsp-build-client --mount-package-cache  and I get this error http://pastebin.com/d431fc5de
<joerg_> Lns, yes, true....but as I am trying to make a complete web based all in one portal for all tasks the schools need....wouldn't it make sense to include that user manager as well?
<joerg_> if people don't want it, they deactivate the module and do it their way....
<joerg_> but developing some web stuff that doesn't provide a way to manage the users is somehow incomplete I think ;)
<Lns> tyoc213, might wanna try #ltsp
<Lns> joerg, I agree
<Lns> I'll love to see your developments :)
#edubuntu 2010-01-27
<sbalneav> joerg: being able to add unix users via a web interface is usually considered to be a bad idea.
<joerg> sbalneav, because? :)
<sbalneav> Because if you have any kind of a problem/vulnerability on your web interface, people can use that to create local users.
<sbalneav> Then, if you've got unpatched local root exploits, they're root very quickly.
<sbalneav> If you're talking about creating users for JUST the portal, that's one thing
<sbalneav> but if creating a user creates a login Linux login, that's usually considered to be "bad practice"
 * HedgeMage seconds sbalneav's comments
<sbalneav> Especially if, as you're suggesting this is an external portal project where literally *anyone* can potentially create an account.
<joerg> sbalneav, anyone?
<joerg> sbalneav, I can't see your point. the user DB is ldap based. that means, slapd is responsible to give users and groups previleges
<joerg> sbalneav, a user has credentials and he will bind to LDAP with his own DN
<joerg> and slapd will either say: yes, you are authorized to modify the user tree or no, you aren't.
<joerg> neither the webserver (which is just acting as ldap client) nor the ldap server run as root afaik
<joerg> apart from that I don't plan to use pam_ldap for ssh or anyother login services
<joerg> the local computer center here installs servers in the schools, but none of the teachers or students does ever get the root password, not even the headmaster has it.
<rhce7320> q/quit
<sbalneav> There's a difference between binding to ldap, and entering new dn's
<sbalneav> if you're not planning on using pam_ldap, how are people going to log in on the lab?
<joerg> sbalneav, hmm? they don't need to login to the server.
<sbalneav> Well, they do if they're in a lab setting
<sbalneav> either full fledged workstations connected via libpam_ldap, or in an LTSP thin client lab.
<joerg> why?
<joerg> the workstations logon to nothing here :P
<sbalneav> That's not how most schools do it.
<joerg> 190 out of 200 do it here
<sbalneav> Most of them are creating users on the Edubuntu machine, either locally, or in ldap.
<joerg> why should anybody need to set up auth stuff in a primary school?
<joerg> students dont even have accounts there
<sbalneav> lots do
<joerg> not here
<joerg> who should do that?
<sbalneav> yeah, and?
<joerg> the two full time admins we have?
<sbalneav> So, the entire world to switch over to the way joerg does things? :)
<joerg> setting up that stuff for over 200 schools? lol
<sbalneav> lots of schools already have huge login databases in AD
<sbalneav> We need to interact with that.
<joerg> no, but joerg get's paid by an organization that doesn't care how the rest of the world would like to have it :P
<sbalneav> Ok, so that's fine.
<sbalneav> Do whatever you like then.
<joerg> lol
<sbalneav> No one's stopping you here :)
<joerg> I just can't provide them with solution that dont fit.
<joerg> they want to manage the users in a webbased app
<joerg> because that is the police.....not giving them the root password. no shell access at all.
<sbalneav> Ok, but that's not Edubuntu's target audience today.
<joerg> they can setup some edubuntu ltsp stuff if they have somebody who knows how to do it and do whatever they like...
<joerg> well....
<joerg> so edubuntu cannot be used to provide file access, mail server and a web portal to a school? :P
<sbalneav> Well, edubuntu's focused on the desktop
<joerg> oh, I thought it was focused on both....
<sbalneav> I.e. providing desktop apps like Kalzium, gimp, etc. for students to use.
<sbalneav> You're just wanting a pure web portal with absolutely no desktop
<sbalneav> No, today we're mainly focused on providing an educational desktop.
<joerg> well web apps are kind of desktop apps :)
<sbalneav> They are, and the only thing we're debating about is where userid's get created.
<joerg> hmm, and what distribution should I use if I want to provide the server part? :)
<joerg> yes, and what would you do in my case? :P
<joerg> how else shall they manage users in the setups they have?
<joerg> the only thing I can guarantee is that they mostly have windows clients and if I am lucky a more or less recent web browser.
<sbalneav> make your web based user id creation a module that can be unloaded, so that if Edubuntu ships it, we can create a desktop app to create the userids
<joerg> all modules will be unloadable :P
<sbalneav> We're not catering to people with windows desktops, we're catering to people who want to *replace* windows desktops with edubuntu desktops.
<sbalneav> So, then, nobody's saying you can't have web based account creation.
<joerg> ok, then I am gonna tell them they shall use win 2003 servers and edubuntu desktops *lol*
<sbalneav> All I'm saying is, we wouldn't *ship* web based account creation on the edubuntu dvd
<sbalneav> Dude, you came in *here* looking for help
<joerg> sbalneav, because you don't let your users decide themselves. very nice :P
<sbalneav> We can't ship everything, and nothing says they can't install it after the fact.
<sbalneav> But just like Ubuntu picks and chooses what apps they ship on their cd, we do the same.
<joerg> sbalneav, well, that's true, but not including it in the repository would be wrong :P
<sbalneav> I didn't say it couldn't be in the repo
<sbalneav> I said it wouldn't ship and install by default ON THE DVD
<sbalneav> obviously, after the fact, people can do whatever they'd like.
<joerg> sure
<joerg> so ldap-account-manager is not included in the dvd? :)
<joerg> it is not that bad btw. - just a bit overkill for teachers
<sbalneav> yes, the ldap-account-manager web page wouldn't be included on the dvd, we'd write/ship something similar that would run from System->Administration menu.
<sbalneav> After the fact, once someone installs edubuntu, if they want to apt-get web-ldap-account-manager, they're welcome to.
<joerg> sbalneav, well, but once again.....what did I get wrong about it? :)
<joerg> as far as I understand ldap, you bind to it with a DN
<joerg> then you can do whatever operations you want
<joerg> at least I thought you can add user records then when you have the right to?
<sbalneav> No, that's not how LDAP works.
<joerg> or is there only one root/admin-dn that can do it?
<sbalneav> The only way you can add new DN's is via the admin login.
<joerg> ok, then you are unfortunately right that it is not the best idea :P
<joerg> it is actually a very bad thing for schools.....that single admin concept
<sbalneav> Doesn't invalidate the rest of your ideas though
<sbalneav> The rest of what you want to do's quite good.
<joerg> thanks ;)
<sbalneav> You were debating about 2% of what you want to do :)
<sbalneav> the other 98%'s great.
<sbalneav> Like I say, what we need now is a spec.
<joerg> anyway....that is a pain :P
<joerg> I really thought ldap was different
<joerg> I'd like to have a group "usercreators" which I just give the right to add and modify these ldap records
<sbalneav> LDAP's a royal Pain.  I've worked with it for years and years.
<joerg> we can't give them the root pw
<joerg> but they need to create users
<sbalneav> I was the person who added shadow password support for ldap to libpam_ldap, years ago.
<joerg> mhhm
<sbalneav> but creating users is simple, and can be handled any number of ways.
<joerg> could we set a kind of user management daemon on top?
<sbalneav> Lets concentrate on the rest of it for now, and fill that peice in towards the end.
<sbalneav> :)
<joerg> lol
<joerg> I just wonder how to do it in a secure way.
<joerg> even with your gnome app it would be hard
<sbalneav> Well, the gnome app auth's against policykit or the like.
<sbalneav> What we should do (and not today, I'm up to my neck in another issue right ATM) is sit down, and I can help you map out a spec on launchpad.
<sbalneav> once we've got a "rough" outline of what you'd like to do, then we can set up a repo, try to gather some people to the project via the mailing list, etc.
<sbalneav> I can set aside a couple of hours for this tomorrow evening (for me, it's currently 9:14 pm here), you're in de, right?  So it's probably mid afternoon?
<sbalneav> no wait
<joerg> lol no
<sbalneav> Iim going the wroing
<sbalneav> way
<sbalneav> Very late there
<sbalneav> like what, 3am?
<joerg> fuckin late, yeah
<joerg> should go to bed :D
<sbalneav> heh, yeah
<sbalneav> Ping me when you see me on tomorrow morning in about 12 hours.
<sbalneav> We can write up a spec.
<joerg> that would be cool, thx
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> Have a good evening.
<joerg> I already played around with launchpad
<joerg> create a project "myserv" ;)
<joerg> and uploaded an empty django project
<joerg> works quite well....
<joerg> sbalneav, thx....have a better one :P
<sbalneav> Guten tag
<joerg> neee
<joerg> gute nacht :P
<sbalneav> ah, yeh
<sbalneav> Also, look for ogra
<sbalneav> in this channel
<sbalneav> he's also de
<sbalneav> So, on a related note, to anyone else who's listening
<sbalneav> read my post on edubuntu-devel
<sbalneav> My mind is *BLOWN*
<sbalneav> gconf with an LDAP backend makes me oh-so-happy.
<sbalneav> I didn't even know you could extend gconf that way.
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: good work on LDAP
<joerg> do US schools have paid admins? ;) just curious....
<sbalneav> Some do, lots don't
<sbalneav> I know lots of Canadian school divisions do.
<joerg> hmm, ok....
<joerg> we have got two for 200 schools :D as I said.
<sbalneav> I also know most brazillian ones don't
<joerg> so everything is just about saving work :P
<joerg> sbalneav, a collegue was at a conference some time ago where the guys from munich presented their IT concept
<sbalneav> I'm just looking through this code.  It's like, 800 odd lines.
<sbalneav> it's nothing.
<joerg> we have got the whole region here, some schools are one hour drive away from "the base" :)
<sbalneav> And it basically means you DON'T have to configure evolution for someone.
<joerg> they have got about 200 schools as well, but 20 full time admins....
<sbalneav> When you create their ldap DN, you just populate a couple of schema keys, and evolution just starts up, *ready to rock*
<joerg> and at the conference they told us what a smart concept they have and that they only need 20 people
<joerg> well, my collegue raised his hand and just said: well, we are doing the same thing with two of them :)
<sbalneav> heh, good for you
<sbalneav> that probably set them on their ears.
<joerg> but munich is a snobbish city you even know in the US :P
<joerg> while this countryside is nothing that anybody gives a damn about :)
<joerg> yeah indeed :)
<joerg> but they still wanna shorten it more here
<joerg> reducing them to half time jobs
<joerg> does unattended updating work well?
<joerg> I mean we cant push apt on 200 servers every now and then....
<sbalneav> Well, unattended updating works as well as it does in debian.  As well as it does in any Linux distro.
<sbalneav> Which is to say "Perfectly, until it breaks" :)
<sbalneav> For the most part, I've had no trouble.
<joerg> yeah, that's my fear
<joerg> that proprietary solution had the advantage that we could blame somebody else :P
<sbalneav> Yeah, you can *blame* someone else, but I bet you still had to fix it :)
<joerg> the proprietary "IServ" is a debian actually, preconfigured and some crappy php portal on it.
<joerg> with heaps of root exploits I guess
<joerg> because they do e.g. passwd/shadow user management with php scripts :D
<sbalneav> Well, apt usually does a pretty darned good job of keeping things working, so long as you don't have a broken package.
<joerg> and, well, they have a test server,checking updates there first
<joerg> before passing that through to their own package repository.
<sbalneav> yeah, that would be the best way to go.
<sbalneav> You can also use "expect" behind the scenes to automate things.
<joerg> have to have a look at it...thx
<joerg> my idea would be to do it in a semi autmoatic way
<sbalneav> I automate my updates where I work.
<joerg> having one playground server to test it....and then somehow giving the command to update to everybody...
<joerg> we can't host the whole ubuntu stuff I am afraid...
<sbalneav> I have them download automatically, so they're already on the box, but not install.
<joerg> so they have to download it from the original sources
<sbalneav> then I have some expect scripts to actually trigger the updates on everyones box.
<joerg> ah, that sounds good....and how do you push the actual install?
<sbalneav> The debs we handle with an apt-cache.
<sbalneav> so the first box that gets the update primes the cache, and then everyone else gets the update from the cache.
<sbalneav> All of that's pretty easy to set up.
<joerg> wouldn't make sense here
<joerg> because of poor bandwidth
<joerg> our apt-cache would have a dsl line connecting it to the others
<joerg> at 192 kbit upload :)
<sbalneav> ah, yeah
<joerg> if we wouldn't have that bottleneck, we wouldn't have servers in the schools at all.
<joerg> maybe in ten years or so.
<joerg> having all the stuff on S3 :)
<joerg> btw. does anybody provide the same stuff amazon S3 does for e-mail?
<sbalneav> I don't know.  In my line of work, I can't do anything cloud related.
<joerg> mhhm....pitty
<sbalneav> My full time job's as a Systems Admin for Legal Aid Manitoba.
<sbalneav> Storing anything client related on the cloud's.... frowned upon :)
<joerg> he he....
<joerg> well, that's the nice thing about the good old schools
<joerg> you don't really have to put much effort in security and safety
<joerg> because nobody wants their data :)
<joerg> sbalneav, I'd like to set all the MX records of these 200 domains to mx.amazonaws.com and get rid of all the trouble :)
<sbalneav> heh
<joerg> sbalneav, mail is a pain....all that spam filtering and virus scanning.....
<rhce7320>  /quit
<sbalneav> Night all!
<dgroos> Good Morning
<dgroos> What are good keywords to search on google for info on connecting a regular desktop to my (at present only thin client)network and get the list of users from my server.
<dgroos> I've spent some 20+ minutes searching for this info! along with browsing likely system pref and admin tools on my desktop system.
<vmlintu> you mean the users listed in /etc/passwd?
<highvoltage> hey dgroos
<highvoltage> dgroos: you want to authenticate against your ltsp server from a standalone fat-client machine?
<dgroos> vmlintu: yes!
<dgroos> high hivoltage!
<vmlintu> and you want to have the same users on the regular desktop?
<dgroos> highvoltage: exactly.
<highvoltage> dgroos: although not as secure or flexible as ldap, you could use NIS+ for that
<dgroos> vmlintu: not sure what you mean by, 'same users on the regular desktop'?
<dgroos> NIS+?
<dgroos> I'll check into it.  Thanks!
<vmlintu> dgroos: do you want that all the users who have accounts on the server can login to the desktop with same username/password?
<dgroos> vmlintu: Exactly.
<joerg> morning :)
<joerg> anybody tried gosa? http://gosa-project.org
<joerg> sbalneav, hey....I am awake ;)
<dgroos> morning joerg
<joerg> I haven't tried it yet, but seems that it is a themeable web based ldap manager that has ACL support
<joerg> that you can give teachers only certain permissions....
<vmlintu> dgroos: nis, ldap or passwd synchronisation some of the options
<dgroos> vmlintu: I've been reading some.  Looks like nis+ and LDAP are kind of difficult.  Will passwd synchronisation allow for students to access their networked home directories?
<vmlintu> dgroos: if you use plain nfs, it should work
<joerg> dgroos, why not? :P
<joerg> vmlintu, hey....sorry, didn't answer you mail yet :)
<vmlintu> joerg: hi
<joerg> dgroos, ldap is not a big deal at all :P install slapd, install migrationtools and that's it :)
<dgroos> vmlintu: I'll check up on nfs :)  Thanks for your help, I'll be back on this job tomorrow, same time, same channel :)
<vmlintu> dgroos: if you use nfs3, you have to have same uids on both ends
<dgroos> joerg: seems like the config of these may not be so trivial...
<vmlintu> joerg: I just noticed that with lucid you have to do some configuration before slapd works like it used to..
<joerg> dgroos, mhhm...I have set up ldap servers in schools several times....there's not much to config
<joerg> vmlintu, dunno....didn't check out lucid so far.
<vmlintu> joerg: have you used /etc/ldap/slapd.conf to configure it?
<dgroos> vmlintu: you mean I need to import the list of users onto the local system, then the process you mentioned will synchronize their user info and as long as the uid are same to start with, users should be able to access their home folders on the server?
<joerg> but anyway, I'd always recommend using ldap instead of hacking some rsync passwd/shadow scripts....:)
<joerg> take 30 minutes more to set up ldap
<joerg> and save a lot of time and work in the future
<dgroos> joerg:  I'll look more into LDAP then, thanks.
<joerg> e.g. when integrating new machines, services and applications
<vmlintu> dgroos: passwd synchronization needs quite a bit of hacking, there's no ready solution for it, I think
<dgroos> vmlintu: thanks for your insight.
<joerg> vmlintu, yes, I think so....
<dgroos> Have a great day folks!
<vmlintu> joerg: the new ubuntu packages really make you to use the cn=config model
<vmlintu> joerg: I've been trying to avoid it until now, but finally went through it..
<vmlintu> I couldn't find any existing documentation on it that would work for lucid as is. The documents for hardy/jaunty/karmic do not work anymore for all the things
<mhall119|work> are there any good GUI tools for managing user acounts on LDAP?
<vmlintu> I just finished writing about the steps needed to get basic OpenLDAP running on lucid alpha2 here: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/setting-up-openldap-on-ubuntu-10-04-alpha2
<vmlintu> mhall119|work: Not sure about GUI tools, I've been using mostly web based applications..
<mhall119|work> okay, what's a good web-based one?
<joerg> vmlintu, looks good. thx. but why did they make it that complicated? :P
<vmlintu> joerg: the cn=config model gives you dynamic configuration, so I guess that's the reason
<joerg> I haven't setup slapd for ages, but after all I remember I just had to enter the root dn (dc=myschool,dc=edu) and have a look at slapd.conf to include the right schemes....
<vmlintu> joerg: I'm writing now a script to take care of the steps listed
<joerg> and then get the users and stuff with migrationtools
<joerg> vmlintu, btw. I will get a demo karmic server.....to play around with all that stuff....
<vmlintu> joerg: you mean the user management stuff?
<joerg> vmlintu, I mean everything
<joerg> that is related to the portal project
<vmlintu> joerg: how much you have played with CAS?
<joerg> vmlintu, not at all :)
<joerg> vmlintu, just know it from the user's perspective and from the docs
<vmlintu> joerg: which CAS server you plan using?
<joerg> vmlintu, I only know the yale cas server....
<joerg> that is now developed by jasig
<joerg> the thing is: for web based single sign on, there's shibboleth, openid and cas
<vmlintu> joerg: ok.. I've been using rubycas-server for couple of things in the past
<joerg> cas is the only one that has pam modules being able to authenticate services like imap, ssh, sftp as well.
<vmlintu> oauth works also for authentication
<joerg> vmlintu, and that works with pam as well?
<vmlintu> do you mean rubycas-server or oauth?
<joerg> vmlintu, oauth
<joerg> vmlintu, the thing is: the webmail module must access the imap server and the homedir the sftp server. using the oauth/cas ticket they already have.
<vmlintu> joerg: oauth is used for web applications.. For example Twitter uses it to authenticate the REST requests to their API
<joerg> well, that is nice.
<joerg> but doesn't make sense if the web applications needs to check user's mails using IMAP
<vmlintu> I wouldn't try to use it for IMAP
<joerg> he he
<joerg> so the only thing left ofer is cas
<joerg> over
<vmlintu> I haven't used cas for anything else than web sites
<joerg> yes
<joerg> and? :P
<joerg> we are talking about web apps, aren't we?
<joerg> the users will not use cas to authenticate their thunderbird against imap :P
<joerg> but the web mail will to avoid asking the user for a password again.
<vmlintu> are you going to proxy the cas ticket to the imap server?
<joerg> yes
<joerg> the imap server will use pam_cas to validate it
<joerg> configured as "auth sufficient" in the pam config
<vmlintu> I've never used the proxying features of cas, just plain web authentication
<joerg> yeah, because you don't have backends that need auth again
<joerg> vmlintu, but zimbra should do that, shouldn't it?
<vmlintu> never tried using cas with zimbra
<joerg> vmlintu, well I thought the finnish open school project does it? :P
<vmlintu> it doesn't use cas that I know of..
<joerg> mhhm
<joerg> what does it use then? ;)
<vmlintu> I'm not actually involved with that project, so I don't know all the details, though..
<joerg> mhhm.....okay
<joerg> at least they are using some single sign on system
<joerg> that sends me that nice message saying "auth failed" when I click the link....
<vmlintu> yes, it has some other sso system for zimbra
<joerg> mhhm
<vmlintu> well, I need to get kerberos working on the lucid setup next..
<joerg> I just wonder what kind of user I am after registering :)
<joerg> I can login to the elgg thing
<joerg> very confusing.....as I thought there'd be one single user DB....
<vmlintu> I'll probably see the guys who did it on Friday
<sbalneav> Morning all
<HedgeMage> Hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning ShrubberySorceress
<Ahmuck> how do i get a .jar file to work?
<Lns_> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: well, depends.  Is it a library?
<sbalneav> usually, it needs to go somewhere in java's library search path
<sbalneav> Soooooo, I hear Ubuntu's changing the search engine to a bad one.  Wonder what file I have to edit to change it back to the good one?
<alkisg> Hmmm you might need sabayon for this... ;)
<alkisg> (I think it's in ubufox)
<sbalneav> UnFORtunately, firefox doesn't support gconf, so it's hard to get things going for firefox under sabayon :(
<sbalneav> Sigh, I need to fix that somehow.
<Ahmuck> search enging?
<Ahmuck> to a bad one?
<Ahmuck> what search engine
<Ahmuck> is there a way to start it from the command line?
<Ahmuck> er, the .jar file
<Ahmuck> http://www.chibipaint.com/downloads.html - i'm trying to get this to run
<Lns> sbalneav, you think firefox.js would have what's necessary?
<Lns> Ahmuck, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-January/030065.html
 * Lns wonders what could be integrated into firefox-gnome-support
<Lns> With simply changing the homepage globally for FF, I can imagine it's no small feat. I never *could* get that to work correctly, had to install ubufox for 8.10 to even get close to a google.com homepage for everyone by default. Ugh.
<Lns> Spent *years* trying to figure that out.
<sbalneav> heh, "Two easily discoverable clicks" == "two easily discoverable clicks for the technically savvy, 185 phonecalls of "How come search doesn't go to google anymore" for the rest of us."
 * Lns nods
<Lns> hate to sound anti-M$^HS but jeez...yahoo? because of revenue sharing? Is ubuntu really that dependent on revenue? I'd hate to see it if Canonical runs out of money :(
<joerg__> sbalneav, hey....give me a shout whenever you like to help with the spec ;) thx
<alkisg> Meeting in 30' ?
<sbalneav> alkisg: Think so.
<sbalneav> joerg__: Yeah, I'll see if I've got a few after the meeing.  Todays becoming busier than I wanted.
<joerg__> sbalneav, take your time ;) btw. do you know the gosa project?
<stgraber> meeting in 8 minutes
<stgraber> sbalneav, alkisg, Lns, highvoltage, nixternal, HedgeMage, whoever I forgot: Meeting !
<alkisg> sbalneav, highvoltage, stgraber, Lns, nixternal, HedgeMage and all, meeting :)
<alkisg> Heh :)
<stgraber> I was first ;)
<Lns> already in the chan ;)
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage: hi there :)
<alkisg> dhillon-v10: meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<dhillon-v10> alkisg: almost forgot about that, sorry :)
<nixternal> hola
<Lns> Wow, Sugar is surprisingly useful on 9.10
<Lns> stgraber, I've installed sugar packages on my 9.10 install here at home and it seems to work great (used instructions from http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu ) - Lucid looks like it has 0.88 already packaged according to that site. I'm curious, what stands in the way of including this in edubuntu lucid? testing?
<Lns> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Debian is Debian page from sugarlabs.org, to see the differences between the two - you mentioned that in the meeting
<highvoltage> eek, sorry about that
* highvoltage changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu | 9.10 is released!, see http://www.edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? try #ltsp
<highvoltage> sorry I somehow lost a bit track of time
<highvoltage> stgraber, Lns, sbalneav: did someone take notes or can I do it from the logs?
<Lns> hey highvoltage - i didn't take notes myself, no
<stgraber> highvoltage: I have the actions noted here but not actual meeting notes
<joerg__> vmlintu, hey....are u already writing a script for easy slapd setup in lucid? btw. karmic has the cn=config stuff as well...
#edubuntu 2010-01-28
<sbalneav> Is it just me, or has Firefox quit working in lucid? :(
<stgraber> well, that's called firefox 3.6
<stgraber> ...
<stgraber> I'm running google chrome at the moment so it's not disturbing me that much though
<sbalneav> So, it's a known issue?
<sbalneav> so, if I rm -rf mozilla, it comes up
<sbalneav> then if I quit, and re-start, it won't come up until I rm -rf mozilla again
<sbalneav> that's.... pretty broken
<sbalneav> urg.  Veeeeery frustrating
<vmlintu> joerg: I'm working on the script
<joerg> vmlintu, cool....give me the link when it is finished....thx :)
<alkisg> !info libnss3-1d jaunty
<ubottu> libnss3-1d (source: nss): Network Security Service libraries. In component main, is optional. Version 3.12.3.1-0ubuntu0.9.04.2 (jaunty), package size 1053 kB, installed size 2736 kB
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> can we get an idf of edubuntu events?
<highvoltage> idf?
<Ahmuck> sunbird calander subscribe to
<Ahmuck> ids ?
<Ahmuck> sorry, an ical
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: the fridge covers most of it, we have our meetings on there too
<highvoltage> Ahmuck: it's a google calendar but I think it can be exported to ical
<Ahmuck> does the fridge have an ical that i can subscribe to?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep, works fine with ical, I use it in zimbra
<Ahmuck> is there a ical link on the edubuntu webpage?
<highvoltage> Ahmuck:we link to the calendar from teh meetings wiki page
<Ahmuck> hurrya for veli-matti !
<joerg_> sbalneav, hey.....are u there? could you give me a starting point for the spec thing? like where to put it (edubuntu wiki?), how to structure it, etc.?
<joerg_> vmlintu, hey.....great work :) btw. is it your father, brother or son on the photo at opinsys.fi? :)
<joerg> very quiet here today
<Lns> yep
<Lns> bye all =)
<highvolt1ge> joerg: stgraber and I have been busy with https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/ :)
<joerg> highvolt1ge, that's nice :) and why do u tell me that? ;)
<highvolt1ge> joerg: because you mentioned how quiet it is here today!
<joerg> highvolt1ge, btw. got a phone call from a collegue who takes care about the regional computer stuff from the pedagogic point of view :)
<joerg> highvolt1ge, hey jÃ¶rg, I checked out usb stick linux distros today and found moblin which looks so goood so much nicer than the windows stuff, we need to give it to the primary schools, the kiddies will love it :D
<highvolt1ge> joerg: I played with moblin last week
<joerg> highvolt1ge, ah, okay....but anyway, you don't need to tell me what reason you have for being quiet :)
<joerg> I never played with moblin.
<highvolt1ge> joerg: I'm thinking of running it on my netbook, it's really slick
<highvolt1ge> I took some screenshots, thought of blogging about it
<joerg> I am just happy that he as a complete linux NOOOB seems to be excited without me telling him how nice everything is with linux :)
<highvolt1ge> but screenshots alone doesn't do it justice
<highvolt1ge> I'll have to take a video
<highvolt1ge> yes that's great :)
<joerg> how's ltsp performing when it comes to multimedia things?
<joerg> like watching videos or whatever?
<joerg> e.g. ten people running firefox and watching some youtube stuff on the machine over a 100mbit ethernet?
<highvolt1ge> works quite well. especially when you run your media player as a local app
<joerg> ah, okay....haven't checked out ltsp for ages....
<highvolt1ge> yep, that will work just fine.
<joerg> and never did anything with local apps
<highvolt1ge> yes the current implementation of it is quite new
<joerg> we once had 486 machines as ltsp thin clients *LOL*
<joerg> that was when kde 2 was the current new kde release I think.
<highvolt1ge> yes I've seen one lab before with 486 clients. you'll definitely not be able to stream youtube videos with those :)
<highvolt1ge> yep, same with the lab I saw
<highvolt1ge> Mandrake with KDE 2
<joerg> well, we throw them away I think
<highvolt1ge> and some real old LTSP version
<joerg> or they are lying around somewhere
<highvolt1ge> I think it was still 3.x
<joerg> as I know the admins, they don't throw away anything :D
<highvolt1ge> heh
<joerg> I think it was 2.x here :)
<joerg> I think we moved to ltsp 3 then which had heaps of new features like sound support....
<joerg> it is not based on xdmcp anymore, right?
<joerg> using freenx now?
<highvolt1ge> it can use freenx, but it uses ssh by default
<stgraber> using regular X export over SSH, so a lot more secure than XDMCP and still let's you do whatever X suppports (not like with FreeNX)
<joerg> oh and I even remember that some freaks here were using ltsp to start rdesktop to connect to a win2k3 terminalserver :D
<stgraber> NX would be great for the bandwidth but you'd loose sound, video, compiz, ...
<joerg> uhh
<highvolt1ge> joerg: you'd be suprised at how common a usecase that is
<joerg> thought it was doing at least sound
<joerg> or does only the nomachine nx do sound?
<joerg> or not at all? :)
<stgraber> it does but with ESD which is deprecated and doesn't work anymore
<joerg> btw. can anybody help me getting started with that portal server project?
<joerg> I never really did some open source project with specs and everything
<joerg> I mostly have small stuff
<joerg> that I develop on my own, have my svn repo at sourceforge and share it...
<joerg> but as the portal project is a bit bigger, I'd like to do it in a more collaborative way....
<joerg> but dunno where to start. e.g. how to structure a spec in a usable way, where to publish it, how to attract people / recruit other developers etc. :)
<joerg> any ideas or docs that could help me get going?
<highvolt1ge> joerg: you posted about it to the list before right?
<joerg> highvolt1ge, yes, some days ago with a very rough idea.
<joerg> highvolt1ge, scott (sbalneaves) wants to help me but he's very busy at the moment....well, and I am not, so I'd like to start doing sth asap :)
<joerg> btw. what is the recommended way to mount user homedirs on an ltsp server? back in the "old times" we used nfs + nis, but that's not state of the art anymore I guess :)
<highvolt1ge> joerg: I kept it marked as unread because I want to give it some proper attention at some point, haven't had time to read and think about it properly yet, but it seems like a good idea
#edubuntu 2010-01-29
<joerg> highvolt1ge, well, it will be a new ear of education :o)
<joerg> era
<joerg> in the best case
<joerg> in the worst case it will be a bzr repository floating around on launchpad that nobody ever downloads :)
<highvolt1ge> heh
<crimsun> stgraber: at what level is the esd nightmare?
<stgraber> crimsun: well, the NX client acts as an esd and NX sends the ESD packets in the SSH tunnel. So currently you don't get much sound as ESD isn't that much used anymore.
<stgraber> only way to get all sounds working is to use pulse's esd sink
<stgraber> but then it adds a 2s or so latency ;)
<crimsun> nasty
<stgraber> I tried sending pulse's native protocol in the tunnel instead and replace the esd binary by some script starting pulse, sounds then magically works but it requires a lot of bandwidth
<stgraber> as it's not a compressed protocol (AFAIK) and so is very sensitive to latency and won't work over the internet at all
<joerg> so guys....if I write my specs: is it wise to write more or less blueprints?
<joerg> I mean, describe a lot of functionality in one blueprint?
<joerg> I'd probably post one blueprint for the core functionality and one for each module that I plan to develop or integrate
<joerg> and does launchpad host wikis somewhere?
<joerg> I cant find anything....
<highvolt1ge> joerg: you certainly don't want too many blueprints
<joerg> but one for each module is ok, isn't it?
<joerg> modules like "webmail", "user management", "homedir access" I mean.
<crimsun> stgraber: yeah, the plugins changes are in the pipeline
<crimsun> won't land for 10.04 or 10.10
<Balsaq> Ahmuck!!!
<Balsaq> How have you been?
<alkisg> ÎÎ±Î»Î®Î¼ÎµÏÎ±
<joerg> very quiet here today :)
<joerg> sbalneav, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/myserv/+spec/myserv-core
<joerg> sbalneav, can you have a brief look at it? thx ;)
<sbalneav> joerg: ok, will do
<joerg> sbalneav, you don't need to read it actually.....just tell me if that fits from the structure etc.
<joerg> sbalneav, oh and btw. - if you are interesting to see what we are trying to replace/make better: I have a demo account for the proprietary IServ thing for you. Just give me a shout then.
<joerg> highvoltage, hey....are working for canonical? :)
<ogra> no, he works for rvolutionlinux
<ogra> *re
<highvoltage> joerg: revolutionlinux mostly and then do some other work part-time as well
<joerg> he he....
<joerg> I just saw the .za domain on the mailinglist and got curious
<highvoltage> joerg: not the best assumption, no one in .za works for canonical :)
<ogra> yeah
<joerg> he he....they only have 200 employees or sth like that, right?
<ogra> most of us are german, uk, or us ... and then we spread over about 60 other countries with single people
<ogra> 300
<joerg> ah, okay....
<ogra> distro is only like 50-60 people though
<joerg> ogra, thats quite small...microsoft probably has half a million for their "distro" :D
<ogra> heh, yeah
<highvoltage> joerg: well if you're counting like that you should probably count the whole of debian and a lof ot upstream as well ;)
<highvoltage> joerg: you'd be suprised how much of windows is developed outside of Microsoft or has been outsourced
<ogra> yeah, definately
<ogra> 80% of ubuntu comes unmodified from debian
<stgraber> ogra: last few UDSes there seemed to be a lot of french people at Canonical (I'd say more than German who used to be the majority a few years ago ;))
<joerg> highvoltage, mhhm....that might be true.....if MS would do everything on their own the software would probably be even worse ^^
<stgraber> or it's just because these french guys talk more than the others :)
<joerg> I love it when frenchies speak english :)
<stgraber> heh
<ogra> stgraber, yeah, france is taking over
<ogra> surely a secret plan :P
<ogra> highvoltage, stgraber, great work on the new website, congrats
<highvoltage> thanks ogra!
<mhall119|work> there's a new website?
<joerg> mhall119|work, ltsp-cluster.org I guess :)
<mhall119|work> oh, nice
<vmlintu> joerg_: I haven't got the time to finish the scripts yet..
<vmlintu> joerg_: I try to finish the articles first and I'll be travelling a bit, so it'll be probably take some time before I get a chance to actually finish them..
<joerg_> vmlintu, mhhm....I will probably just copy and paste all these commands to a big shell script then ;) that I can at least install one or two test servers without going through it by hand
<vmlintu> joerg_: there were some typos in the first version that should be now fixed
<joerg_> vmlintu, I just wonder....would a script like that do more than asking for the dn and the admin pw? :)
<vmlintu> joerg_: not much, but I'm trying to make it first check what the status of the ldap directory is before it overwrites everything..
<joerg_> vmlintu, oh and btw. the slapdtest utility can convert slapd.conf to a dir and vice versa....just to let you know that....some ldap guy told me that yesterday ;)
<vmlintu> joerg_: yes, I'm writing about that too..
<vmlintu> joerg_: just takes time to proof-read the stuff as wrong instructions are totally useless..
<joerg_> indeed
<joerg_> vmlintu, oh....and just to let you know: I wrote a more detailed spec about the portal project now (which is called MyServ now)
<joerg_> because the old proprietary thing is called IServ :D
<vmlintu> what was the url?
<joerg_> vmlintu, myserv-project.org :)
<joerg_> the spec is linked at launchpad as well
<vmlintu> I've been just chatting with penguins.. ;) http://twitpic.com/10afh8
<vmlintu> joerg_: what's your timeframe for the project?
<joerg_> vmlintu, don't have one.
<joerg_> vmlintu, they decided to not pay a single cent for that proprietary stuff anymore yesterday.....so basically the servers just keeping running without any (functional) updates until there's something new.
<stgraber> ogra: thanks
<vmlintu> joerg_: who was "they"?
<joerg_> vmlintu, the regional computer center here :)
<joerg_> vmlintu, the guys who sometimes pay me for projects :)
<Traveler0> hi i have edubuntu 7.04 on eeepc 9000 why i cant connect to wifi
<Traveler0> i put the pass all the time but it just doesnt want to connect
<sbalneav> Traveler0: probably a driver issue, but 7,04's EOL, so it's unsupported now.
<Traveler0> sbalneav well i can see the wifi i put the pass but its just doesnt want to connect and i know its iys EOL but its from work and i cant change it
<Traveler0> wait is edubuntu gnome cuz it doens look anything like gnome more like xfce
<sbalneav> Edubuntu's gnome.
<Traveler0> lol
<Traveler0> what is that
<sbalneav> We use gnome as the desktop.
<sbalneav> Can you post a screen shot of what you've got on the box?
<Traveler0> no i cant connect to internet
<Traveler0> i need fresh install
<sbalneav> But, you're on the internet now :)
<sbalneav> can't you take a screen shot, save it to a memory stick, and post it somewhere from a different machine?
<Traveler0> not on eeepc
<highvoltage> usb flash disk
<Traveler0> hmmm
<Traveler0> i cant i am on 64/64 kbps internet
<Traveler0> i over used my internet :P
<sbalneav> Well, you can still post an image over 64/64
<sbalneav> Without seeing your screen, I can't say for sure what you've got on there.
<sbalneav> But regardless, if you're at 7.04, you're out of luck anyway.  There's no support for that anymore.
<Traveler0> i know what is gnome i have gnome but this is strange
<sbalneav> On an eeepc I'd load 10.04 UNR
<sbalneav> sorry 9.10 UNR
<Traveler0> is it edubuntu lighter than ubuntu
<sbalneav> No, the opposite.  Edubuntu's got MORE stuff than ubuntu.
<sbalneav> UNR's what you want.  Ubuntu Netbook Remix
<Traveler0> now that is smt i will never put in my net book :P
<sbalneav> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR
<sbalneav> Sorry? I don't understand.
<Traveler0> i dont like it
<sbalneav> Don't like what?
<Traveler0> it makes my netbook look like phone not a pc
<sbalneav> Well, then just install regular ubuntu then.
<sbalneav> No one's forcing you to use UNR :)
<Traveler0> lol
<Traveler0> and its for my mom
<Traveler0> ubuntu it is
<Traveler0> will it be able to watch youtube ???
<sbalneav> All my computers run some form of Ubuntu, and I can watch Youtube on all of them.
<sbalneav> just install flashplugin-nonfree.
<Traveler0> yes but i mean 1.6 atom
<sbalneav> I have an Acer Aspire One at home, running UNR.  Youtube's fine on that.
<Traveler0> cuz i have intel 1.73 l2 2mb and i stilll have problems with youtube
<sbalneav> I don't have an eeepc, so I don't know, video driver wise how they are.
<Traveler0> we will se a format cant hirt anybody :P
<sbalneav> but I've got a 1.6 in the aspire one, and I can watch youtube videos.
<Traveler0> got to go its friday
<Traveler0> sudo apt-get install friday-night-nonfree
<Traveler0> :D
<dgroos> Any one have some idea why I can't update my iTALC globalconfig.xml file?
<dgroos> I added all my clients to iTALC last week and made those setting persistant as per Ubuntu wiki instructions.  Yesterday I tried to add another class (booting from the same server) and was not able to find the config file that had all of the new clients I'd just added!  Finally, I had to quit iTALC and upon restarting italc of course the new class was gone.  Any ideas?
<alkisg> What wiki instructions?
<dgroos> first these: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc which worked the first time.
<dgroos> then these http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Customizing_paths_to_keys_and_config-files which said I needed to quit italc before moving the file.
 * alkisg hasn't used "global" configuration files, only "per-teacher" configuration files...
<dgroos> that dude is one step ahead of the crowd :)
<alkisg> I really don't like that page :)
<dgroos> that would be personalconfig.xml?
<dgroos> Oh come on!  think of all the business here on irc it has given you ;)
<alkisg> E.g. the scp line is bound to make people unhappy... no chown no chmod, nothing...
<alkisg> Heh, sure
<dgroos> So, when I added a class to italc, where should that info have been? ~/.italc/?
<dgroos> (before quitting italc, that is)
<alkisg> I don't know about global configuration files, so I can't help on that
<alkisg> For per-teacher configuration files, sure, they're on ~/.italc
<dgroos> Don't you have persistent user lists?  How do you do it?
<alkisg> Nothing special, it's automatic
<dgroos> how do you make them persistent?  Just the auto list ay?
<alkisg> Whatever changes you do are saved
<alkisg> The "autodetected computers" class is the only one that is regenerated everytime
<alkisg> So if you rename it once, it'll stay..
<dgroos> I'm confused.  I thought it made a fresh copy of the class each time.  How do you 'save a class'?  I see...
<dgroos> And I rename it by going into personalconfig.xml and chance the class name?
<alkisg> No, from the gui
<alkisg> You don't have to deal with files...
<dgroos> alas, I learn vi and now I don't need it ;)
<dgroos> I can't find the way to change it in the gui, though, just looked.
<alkisg> Right click on the autodetected computers and select "rename"
<dgroos> OK, cool, and then it won't auto detect anymore?
<alkisg> It will have 2 classes, one with autodetected computers and the other one that you just renamed
<alkisg> But if you start it with "italc" instead of "italc-launcher", it will only have the one you renamed
<dgroos> ?  I start from the menu, not via terminal...
<alkisg> Yeah you'd need to change the menu (=the italc.desktop file) for that
<alkisg> Or if you use the italc devel ppa, I think you can also use a configuration file and say USE_AUTODETECTION=No
<alkisg> AUTODETECT_CLIENTS=False
<alkisg> in /etc/italc/italc.conf
<dgroos> Thanks, where would I ...
<dgroos> right :)
<dgroos> Got to catch a plane!  But I'll save this stuff and make it work on monday!  Thanks again alkisg :)
<alkisg> Have a nice trip
#edubuntu 2010-01-30
<skull23> hey guys i need some help with my ubuntu internet
<skull23> the wired connection isn't working, and i think reseting the network manager might work but i don't remember the terminal command
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage: ping
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage: ping regarding edubuntu website bugs
<kazper> hey, can i install edubuntu via CD too? My computer doesn't have DVD drive, it have CD drive. I want to get CD installer
<kazper> And i don't want to use Educational Addon
<alkisg> No, edubuntu doesn't fit on CDs anymore
<kazper> that's bad job -.-
<kazper> okey, anyway thanks
<alkisg> You can install via network
<kazper> how
<alkisg> You can boot another PC nearby with the edubuntu DVD, run a small script, and serve the live DVD over the network
<alkisg> Do you have another PC nearby which you could put the live DVD in?
<kazper> yes
<alkisg> OK, let me get you the link...
<kazper> okey
<alkisg> Here's the page with the "theory", but you don't need any of this: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LiveCDNetboot
<kazper> ok
<alkisg> You only need the part about the "automation script"
<kazper> k
<alkisg> So, you boot the other PC, and run this command on it:
<alkisg> wget 'http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2525.0;attach=1421' -O /tmp/livecd-netboot && sudo sh /tmp/livecd-netboot
<alkisg> This sets up a proxydhcp server and shares the live dvd over nfs
<kazper> ok
<alkisg> Then you just select "boot from network" from your target computer...
<kazper> Ok
<alkisg> If the target computer doesn't have a "boot from network" ability, you can add it with software (gpxe - http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-git/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/)
<kazper> ok
<kazper> thanks
<alkisg> You're welcome
<GabrieSOE> hi all, I'm from israel, and working with redhat 5 at work, can someone please explain to me what sets redhat and ubuntu apart?
#edubuntu 2010-01-31
<neil_d> with a LTSP setup would running the command "gnome-session-save --kill --silent" on the terminal have any detrimental effect?
<dhillon-v10> stgraber: ping regarding the brainstorm module code
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage: ping
<mrguitar> What's the best way to deploy edubuntu to laptops? (I'd like to do kickstart or preseed)
<alkisg> !info tcm jaunty
<ubottu> tcm (source: tcm): Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling (TCM). In component universe, is optional. Version 2.20+TSQD-4.2 (jaunty), package size 1072 kB, installed size 3228 kB
<alkisg> !info tcm dapper
<ubottu> 'dapper' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, intrepid, intrepid-backports, jaunty, jaunty-backports, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, partner
<alkisg> !info tcm hardy
<ubottu> tcm (source: tcm): Toolkit for Conceptual Modeling (TCM). In component universe, is optional. Version 2.20+TSQD-4 (hardy), package size 1070 kB, installed size 3320 kB
<alkisg> ÎÎ±Î»Î·Î¼Î­ÏÎ±
<alkisg> What's the official policy about international content in the (ed)ubuntu wiki? Are we allowed to put Greek content in it?
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.99-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 102 kB, installed size 1264 kB
#edubuntu 2011-01-24
<jjido> if I copy a live CD to disk, how do I boot it? Just add the kernel in the Grub menu or do I need loadlin
<jjido> do I need initrd
<mhall119> jjido: 196MB is pretty low
<mhall119> if you have a standalone video card, you can probably get Qimo or Xubuntu running
<mhall119> but most apps will still be very slow
<jjido> mhall119: Gnome in Ubuntu 6 is quite slow
<mhall119> jjido: I think it's more complicated than that
<HedgeMage> jjido: if you don't know what you are doing, just use the ubuntu usb startup disk creator: it does it all for you
<jjido> HedgeMage: I think I know what I am doing ;)
<mhall119> famous last words
<HedgeMage> lol
<jjido> lol
<bluefrog> is nanny working correctly on edubuntu 10.10? on my "normal" ubuntu 10.10 it dosn't prevent a user to log in.
<mhall119> highvoltage: how long ago did you apply to join the ubuntu derivative team?
<mhall119> nevermind, I see it
<highvoltage> k
<bluefrog> is nanny working correctly on edubuntu 10.10? on my "normal" ubuntu 10.10 it dosn't prevent a user to log in.
<highvoltage> bluefrog: it should work the same on both
<highvoltage> bluefrog: but to play it safe, I suggest you file a bug on https://launchpad.net/nanny so that we'll look into it
<highvoltage> (well, we or some other team that might care about nanny)
<highvoltage> our version still matches upstream, at least.
<bluefrog> I filed a bug 2 days. what puzzles me is that I see a lot about the same stuff on the web since a long time and I was the first to file in a report. ok ty. wait and see
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: 2 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/2)
<bluefrog> and I tried it on 2 differetnt machines with the same results
<highvoltage> bluefrog: against nanny? I can't see it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nanny
<highvoltage> (there's just 4 bugs)
<bluefrog> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/706269
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 706269 in nanny (Ubuntu) "nanny does not prevent user loging" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> bluefrog: I can't promise to fix it, but I'll look at it this week and can help at poking upstream about it, I think it might be related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/nanny/+bug/583739
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 583739 in Nanny "Daemon does not start" [Undecided,New]
<bluefrog> hum think the daemon is up. anyway might have a look in the source. I may be lucky and understand something even though I am no programmer.
<bluefrog> using nanny from the universe repository apparently if it does a difference
<highvoltage> unfortunately nanny isn't very much extensively tested, so any feedback or fixes you can contribute will be appreciated
<bluefrog> ty for anwsering me. have a nice day
<highvoltage> you too!
<bluefrog> ok no problem I will test cause so far the idea is good
<bluefrog> I can prevent user to log in with time.conf but it's a pain in the ass for me to script a user kick out
<bluefrog> going to install edubuntu and I will try to find some differences
<highvoltage> ok, it's the exact same package so there shouldn't be a difference, but then again anything is possible :)
<bluefrog> then must be something in the OS conf. zsync right now. bye
<highvoltage> anyone here used gelemental before?
<mhall119> nope
<highvoltage> pity there's so many nice programs out there that works nice for a while and then just crashes
<Nubae> :-)
<highvoltage> Alan Bell: Edubuntu at BETT 2011: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/01/24/edubuntu-at-bett-2011
<AlanBell> um, yeah
<AlanBell> that is me :)
<highvoltage> just shared it on identica/facebook/twitter as well :)
<AlanBell> nice :)
<highvoltage> I'm only 2 minutes in but it's really nice, I'll favoutire it on the Edubuntu youtube channel too
 * stgraber still need to watch it
<highvoltage> stgraber: is there a way we can have two urls in drupal go to the same page? I just got to a slide where he showed the edubuntu.org/vmmanager link and I think it would be nice having /weblive linked to that as well
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'm pretty sure "there's a module for that" (after the "there's an app for that") :)
<highvoltage> :)
<stgraber> wow, unity really works well for heavy multi-tasking
<stgraber> currently have something like 30 different windows open and it's still quite easy to find the right one :)
<highvoltage> cool. I guess that's more compiz coolness though. the move to compiz was the best decision the unity have made up to date imho
<stgraber> yep, but having the "scale" effect per software is really quite nice
<stgraber> so if I click twice on something in the unity dock, it'll show me all open windows of that software and not all the windows I've opened
<mhall119> stgraber: nice
<highvoltage> bbl (crappy)
<stgraber> highvoltage: hehe, enjoy !
<highvoltage> this is still kind of funny: http://www.youtube.com/user/edubuntuproject?feature=mhum#p/f/28/CFcQpKAcahQ
<highvoltage> 665 people now like Edubuntu on facebook, nice progress there :)
<alkisg> Oh. I'm 666 :(
<highvoltage> unfortunately we can't afford to give you an iPad for that
<mhall119> alkisg: yay! you win a vial of Holy Water!
<mhall119> careful, it burns
<highvoltage> we still haven't made a decision regarding kstars vs stellarium
<highvoltage> stellarium is very slick but is certainly a lot bigger and doesn't work on unaccellerated hardware
<highvoltage> I don't know where to draw the line and I'm busy editing seed files :)
<highvoltage> I guess we could just go with Stellarium, and if people want to run on older hardware they can just uninstall it and install kstars?
<alkisg> Does kstars run with usual LTSP clients?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
<alkisg> (usual == no 3D acceleration...)
<highvoltage> alkisg: it even runs on weblive!
<alkisg> Oooh cool
<mhall119> I think both are good, if kstars runs unaccelerated and over LTSP, that's certainly a plus in it's favor
<mhall119> IIRC, stellarium will run unaccelerated, but it's frustratingly slow
#edubuntu 2011-01-25
<head_victim> Quick question, is there any sort of promotional video available for edubuntu I can download to use at a conference open day (my loco is holding a stand and I thought edubuntu would be good to showcase)
<stgraber> highvoltage: ^ (promotional video)
<highvoltage> ah, I missed that
<highvoltage> not sure if any of the current videos up on youtube would cound as 'promotional' videos
<highvoltage> head_victim: but if you check the Edubuntu youtube channel you might find one or two videos that are useful, Alan Bell's talk is quite nice
<head_victim> highvoltage & stgraber thanks for the tip I'll check it out
<theshiznit> is edubuntu that cool?
<theshiznit> or is ubuntu better?
<edubuntuhelp> If any questions, please ask me. I will be here until 6:45 PM for Technical Support.
<edubuntuhelp> Welcome to Edubuntu.org. We hope that you will enjoy your stay here.
<edubuntuhelp> LOL
<highvoltage> hi edubuntuhelp
<highvoltage> to answer your previous question, edubuntu and ubuntu is pretty much the same, edubuntu just has different default installation options and package
<edubuntuhelp> Hello.
<highvoltage> *packages
<edubuntuhelp> Yes. I know that.
<edubuntuhelp> I am technical support now.
<highvoltage> great.
<edubuntuhelp> Yes. Watch.
<Linux> See?
<Linux> Are you there?
<highvoltage> please just stick to one nick, if you can :)
<Linux> I do not need assistance.
<Linux> If any, you need assistance from me?
<highvoltage> perhaps, but if you don't behave you won't be able to further participate in this channel
<Linux> Do not give help to me. I do as I do and you don't do the same.
<Linux> Please, If you don't need help, don't talk to me. I am here for assistance only. Thank you.
<Linux> Channel operator status is nice?
<Linux> Testing only: #FF0033 Testing only.
<Linux> Does not work for self color coding
<highvoltage> Seems like you need some help.
<Linux> How do you get Channel Operater Status.
<Linux> No I do not. Thank you very much. Don't get cocky please.
<highvoltage> I get ops status automatically when our trollbots think that there are trolls in the channel. No idea what could've triggered them though
<Linux> Trolls?
<highvoltage> not that that answer was directed at you, you obviously knew that already
<Linux> This is all a joke. I am no system. How are you? My name is Jordan.
<highvoltage> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling
<highvoltage> meh, this isn't even amusing
<damnsmalllinux2> do not kick me.
<damnsmalllinux2> Can you please give me ops. I will be honestly good.
<highvoltage> I'm going to drive home now, if you want to be allowed in the channel again then you are free to contact me directly later
<damnsmalllinux2> can you give me ops? Please
#edubuntu 2011-01-26
<mhall119> wow, trolling #edubuntu?
<mhall119> you know you have no life when....
<highvoltage> heh, yeah
<gurkhali69> hello can anyone help me to build fat client image offline? i have done online installation using < ltsp-build-client --fat-client --fat-client-desktop edubuntu-desktop --arch i386 --skipimage > . now i need to install it without using internet connection. plz help...
<robehend1> is it possible to use the Edubuntu menu-editor to assign different profiles to likewise-open AD groups? e.g. students profile to the DOMAIN\Students, staff to DOMAIN\Staff, etc
<highvoltage> robehend1: I don't know for sure, but since it works pretty much like normal groups, it should really be fine. if it isn't, then it should probably get a bug for that
<robehend1> highvoltage: only issue I'm having is getting them to show up in the gui for profile assignment. only likewise-related one i see is LTSPHOST\Likewise Users
<highvoltage> ah right, because you only see your own groups right?
<robehend1> correct
<robehend1> have the same issue with Sabayon, now that i think about it.
<highvoltage> mgariepy: any ideas? perhaps menueditor could get a custom field for that? sounds like a very common use case :)
<robehend1> highvoltage: would it make sense to just add the group to the /etc/group file? it looks like that is where the editor is reading from. I'm not sure of the syntax though, since its an AD group, not local
<highvoltage> robehend1: I'm not sure what happens if you have groups with backslashes in there, it might work with a bit of trial and error, perhaps you might need to escape a backslash in there, I have no idea but it sounds worth trying
<robehend1> highvoltage: likewise *does* let you change the domain seperate from a backslash to say, a hyphen. guess i've got an afternoon project
<highvoltage> robehend1: I just played around with it, addgroup doesn't allow you to use backslashes, but it does work if you manually put it in /etc/group
<robehend1> how did you add it. DOMAIN\\Group ?
<highvoltage> DOMAIN\group
<robehend1> hmm, alright. now to give it a shot. any services I have to restart after fiddling with that file/
<highvoltage> that's how I added it in /etc/group, then I added the user to the group by doing a adduser testuser TEST\\group
<highvoltage> nope
<robehend1> you just give it a random number? So it'd be like...DOMAIN\Group:x:8283 or something?
<highvoltage> I just incremented the last used group ID, but you can choose a higher number too
<robehend1> hmm. Now to see if its actually using the AD group, or if we just made a group called DOMAIN\Group
<highvoltage> well, it won't actually be the AD group, I thought you just wanted it to add users to the group in menueditor?
<mgariepy> robehend1, you probably can use desktop-profile with likewise groups
<robehend1> I'm wanting to be able to assign profiles in menu editor to members of the AD group
<robehend1> i could be explaining it wrong, as well
<mgariepy> i guess the simplest way would be to edit the file manually
<robehend1> the /etc/group file?
<mgariepy> nop, the /etc/desktop-profiles/whatever.listing file
<mgariepy> can you try to asign the profile to a random group, then edit the file it createsd
<robehend1> hmm, let me give it a shot
<mgariepy> not sure how it will react with "\" in group name tho
<robehend1> well, that can be changed in likewise to be a - or something
<mgariepy> with ldap it works correctly
<robehend1> ack, student calls. i'll have to come back to this. thanks though!
<stgraber> highvoltage: edubuntu ?
<stgraber> as in meeting (unless I got mixed up with timezones again)
<stgraber> mgariepy: ^
<mhall119> I think it's early for a meeting
<highvoltage> stgraber: hi!
<stgraber> ok, so got mixed up with the timezones again :)
<highvoltage> mgariepy I think is in a meeting
<stgraber> so that's in 50 minutes ?
<stgraber> just wondering because I saw that the QA meeting is about to begin and it's usually conflicting with ours + my cell meeting reminder rang 30min ago :)
<stgraber> oh, and it's 19:11 UTC so I think I'm right ;)
<stgraber> highvoltage: can you confirm ? :)
<highvoltage> this wednesday kind of snuck up on me
<highvoltage> yep, it's the right time
<stgraber> yeah !
<stgraber> (not that I have anything to say at the meeting anyway)
<highvoltage> I'm just digging up my tomboy notes so that I can remember what I did the last week :)
<stgraber> I guess we should switch to -meeting, even if it's to say that we don't have anything to say :)
<highvoltage> well, we have some seed changes, kstars has been dropped (in favour of kstars) and there's a bunch of other seed changes too but I don't have them open right now
<highvoltage> I've been talking to LibreCAD upstream a bit off-list
<highvoltage> they are eagre to have it in Edubuntu, they're just finalising logos, etc. then I'll review it for universe
<stgraber> => -meeting ?
<highvoltage> d'oh
<maco> i think the desktop is in kdepim-runtime because the other akonadi packages are either the lib or the server, but the client and server probably dont have to be on the same system
<maco> then again, its used to start/stop the server, so id be inclined to put it into akonadi-server
<highvoltage> ah right
<highvoltage> we could just hide those menus, but that feels more like covering up the problem than fixing it
<highvoltage> but as you said that's kind of hard to avoid since that's how kde upstream works
<maco> i think it should be possible to make akonaditray a separate package and have the actual kdepim applications depend on it instead of the whole runtime, maybe?
<maco> er i mean instead of including it in the whole runtime
<maco> like, to split up that package a bit
<highvoltage> that would be nice
<maco> highvoltage: do you end up with akonadi-server installed too?
<maco> nvm. answer's yes
<maco> kdepim-runtime depends on it
<maco> yeah...python-kde4 just needs to be broken up so packages can depend on some subset of the kde platform
<salvy> Hi
#edubuntu 2011-01-27
<maco> highvoltage: riddell & scottk say yes akonaditray can be split off into its own package and not installed by default. so..there's a start
<highvoltage> maco: ooh, great! thanks for following up on that
<maco> getting akonadi-server to not be installed would be a great deal more effort though and would require collaboration with debian, so breaking up python-kde4 into being more modular is not going to be happening this cycle
<highvoltage> for this cycle at least we'll just hide unwanted icons. knowing that it's fixable is at least a good start, knowing that people care enough to work towards a solution in the future is awesome.
<maco> i should at some point get to know the debian kde packagers
<highvoltage> sounds like a good thing to do... or even become one?
<Edencampus> Hi, we got a nice new server at Eden campus. We currently run 10.04 with 32 clients (VXL TC3831) lab.
<Edencampus> I installed 10.10 amd DVD and the clients now give the error about  the kernel and cmov.
<Edencampus> Error This kernel requires the following features not present on the cpu: cx8 cmov
<Edencampus> Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU.
<Edencampus> Is there a fix or should we just use version 10.04 for now?
<alkisg> Afaik there's no fix, you need to use 10.04. Are you using LTSP? How much RAM do those clients have?
<Edencampus> 512MB RAM. They have been running edudbuntu since about Dapper. LTSP is being run
<Edencampus> A few have only 256MB Ram
<Edencampus> I was hoping I could just rebuild or re-configure the thin client image in opt for edubuntu 10.10
<Edencampus> the clients use VIA C3 800MHz processors - memory upgraded from 128 MB to 512 or 256 MB
<Edencampus> Edubuntu 10.10 with via C3 clients - clients unable to boot due to cx8 and cmov kernel requirements - any suggestions?
<Edencampus> Thanks for the input. Downloading 10.04 now. Pity about the new features in 10.10 - now unusable in many thin client labs.
<maco> Edencampus: there is nothing to be done about it. i586 is an unsupported architecture these days
<highvoltage> stgraber: heh, I see global menu is now enabled by default in gnome and the menu is now just the small gnome menu instead of Applications Places System
<robehend1> i take it theres still no way to remove the places menu from the gnome menu? that, or my google-fu is seriously lacking recently
<stgraber> highvoltage: using ubuntu again ? :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: VM :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm just wondering whether we should keep that as-is in edubuntu or put it back to the old ways
<stgraber> highvoltage: not sure, having a delta in the UI is relatively painful for stuff like documentation. I'd need to have a look at what the user experience exactly is with classic desktop on edubuntu and if it might cause issues for our users
<highvoltage> stgraber: indeed, the way I see it it's basically wheighing the painfulness of UI change for no reason against ... oh you're jabbering me :)
<highvoltage> oh right, that was about something entirely different
<highvoltage> painfulness of UI change for no reason against the painfulness of having to maintain a change in default ubuntu
<stgraber> if we plan on shipping with unity in 11.10, then following that change makes sense, because it'll be a smoother transition for our users
<stgraber> if we don't, then it's indeed pointless
#edubuntu 2011-01-28
<TheProf> Hello.  I hope everyone is well.  I recently switched from K12Linux based on Fedora to Edubuntu and everything has been wonderful.  I am having a problem with one area -- I was used to the server sending emails about different things to root (free disk space, sudo attempts, temp, etc.) but I can't seem to find this emails.  Does Edubuntu do this also? I'm worried I'm missing something that might be happening.
<stgraber> it doesn't by default, there are tools for that though, can't remember the name of the one you describe
<TheProf> stgraber, Hello. I did activate logrotate which often is used.  So if I understand you correctly I've got nothing really to worry about?
<stgraber> logrotate just moves log files to avoid having them becoming huge, it won't actually parse them to check for sudo errors or that kind of things
<stgraber> something like logwatch might be what you want
<TheProf> I'm sorry - I meant logwatch.
<stgraber> ok, so yes you should be fine then, assuming your server can correctly send e-mails
<TheProf> stgraber, ok I'll check it again
<TheProf> stgraber, thanks. Have to run now.
#edubuntu 2011-01-29
<shann> bonjour
<bluefrog> testing nanny in edubuntu, doesn't seem to be working. I red out all saturday for user test (click apply...) then I log out and log in with the test user. no problem it lets me in and tells me I will be granted access in 5 hours, but I am already in.
<bluefrog> edubuntu 10.10
<bluefrog> password
<bluefrog> same thing occurs when using a thin client.
<Nubae> nanny?
<bluefrog> yes
<Nubae> what do u mean by nanny?
<bluefrog> the program
<Nubae> net nanny?
<bluefrog> parental control aka nanny
<Nubae> ahhh ok, just know the name parental control
<bluefrog> well nanny or whatever.. not working properly out of the bxo
<Nubae> last time I checked everything worked ok, u are using 2 useres? not running it as root?
<bluefrog> what is last time? 1 or 2 distro ago?
<Nubae> hmmm... Lucid I believe
<bluefrog> 1 ago then.
<Nubae> bluefrog did u find any errors in launchpad?
<bluefrog> errors?
<Nubae> if not, u might want to add a bug report, its pretty quick to do
<Nubae> bug reports for parental control in maverick
<bluefrog> bug report already done1 or 2 weeks ago. no news
<Nubae> or natty... if u are using that
<Nubae> oh ok...
<Nubae> hmm... usually folks are pretty good at getting back
<Nubae> I'll test myself and add my 2 cents
<Nubae> might help move things along
<bluefrog> will see when highvoltage is around.
<Nubae> what os u running? maverick or natty?
<bluefrog> 10.10
<Nubae> to replicate the probelm
<Nubae> problem
<Nubae> ok
<bluefrog> both edubuntu and ubuntu. same
<Ronnie> highvoltage: were you still looking for a google map solution to point the schools. i got one: Live version: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ronnie.vd.c/map.html , documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-django-foundations/map
<highvoltage> bluefrog: I don't have time to look at it right now, but if you haven't yet could you file a bug for that in Launchpad and subscribe edubuntu-bugs?
<highvoltage> (ah, I see you already have)
<highvoltage> Ronnie: that looks useful, will also look a bit later :)
<Nubae> highvoltage is parental control standard in edubuntu?
<bluefrog> highvoltage, bugsquad already subscribed
<bluefrog> highvoltage, you two btw :)
<bluefrog> wasn't me
#edubuntu 2011-01-30
<mhall119> highvoltage: stgraber: either of you going to be around for a couple hours?
<mhall119> http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/classroom.html <- 1am UTC/8pm EST
<mhall119> MichelleQ and I are doing a session in #ubuntu-classroom in about....2 minutes
<gurkhali69> hello! I installed my edubuntu system with eth2 and now I have replaced the nic which is named eth3. how can I assign eth3 to ltsp server?
#edubuntu 2012-01-23
<stgraber> argh ... looks like I need to upload one more edubuntu-artwork package because ubuntu-arwork didn't convert entirely to gsettings
<stgraber> so now that we don't set gconf and ubuntu's does, it gets converted at session opening time and overrides our settings, doh...
<stgraber> so much for wanting to be legacy free then
<highvoltage> oh well
#edubuntu 2012-01-24
<pinportal> hello, i would like to know if ubuntu 12,04 will need to use terminal too?
<alkisg> pinportal: what do you mean "will need to use terminal"?
<alkisg> You need to use a terminal now, to perform some tasks?
<pinportal> to install programs...
<alkisg> You can do that from software center
<pinportal> what is the better linux today? Ubuntu?Why?
#edubuntu 2012-01-25
<sunson> Is there a discussion on why epoptes is being preferred over iTalc? (is it simply because iTalc is not regularly in development?)
<sunson> (ie., being preferred in 12.04)
#edubuntu 2012-01-26
<Powl> hello everybody, can someone tell me how to use unofficial playonlinux scripts
#edubuntu 2012-01-29
<mike-gabriel> stgraber, do you have a minute?
<mike-gabriel> stgraber, want to chat about nx-libs-lite and qtnx and see if we can fix that...
<mike-gabriel> stgraber, will hang around here for 2 more hours or so (23.00 UTC)
#edubuntu 2013-01-21
<highvoltage> oo-dragon: 2
<highvoltage> stgraber: something seems wrong with the outgoing emails for deployments, I haven't received any notifications in a while
<highvoltage> stgraber: and there are a lot of unconfirmed ones in the web ui
<stgraber> highvoltage: hmm, I'll have to check. My guess is that Canonical fixed the firewall weirdness I was using :)
<highvoltage> heh
<joohoo340> Hello is any one out there?
<joohoo340> hello?
<alkisg> !ask
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<alkisg> !patience
<ubottu> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<joohoo340> ok I am getting my church up and running with some computer systems and I am trying to make use of the systems that they have (very old). I was wondering if edubuntu was mature/reliable enough to provide some samba shares, dhcp and ltsp all on one machine that has non-server hardware?
<highvoltage> joohoo340: edubuntu is basically ubuntu with different installer options and packages, so it's good. I'd recommend going with the LTS (Long Term Support) version though, that's 12.04
<highvoltage> one day I'll have the right combination of time/patience/motivation and spend some time with samba and put together some nice docs for Edubuntu users. it's *so* overdue.
<joohoo340> yes I was looking at edubuntu because of the server like features ltsp which imo is the harder thing to get setup, and you have a decent gui to do the rest of the stuff
<highvoltage> joohoo340: great. there's currently work going into edubuntu to set up samba like that too, it's targeted for a stable release by 14.04. can't wait :)
<highvoltage> it will even have a nice web UI: https://plus.google.com/104492301562638456962/posts/gk4DjdSxWWb
<joohoo340> that does look really nice. I look forward to being able to use that in the future. I guess I just need to baby sit the system until I can find a stable hands off way to supervise this who thing
<joohoo340> thanks for the help and a glimmer of the future.
<highvoltage> you're welcome, if you have any tips/feedback to share, please do so
#edubuntu 2014-01-22
<sebsebseb> hi
#edubuntu 2014-01-23
<DReeder> hello
<stgraber> highvoltage: thanks a lot for handling alpha2, I ended up being completely swamped by LXC work this week (people love sending a ton of patches at the last minute apparently...) and I've had a nasty headache last night so couldn't stay up late for testing...
<highvoltage> no problemo, I ended up having really little time for it but luckily the images were in good shape
<highvoltage> (if they weren't we might have had to skip alpha2)
<stgraber> yeah, we had some good test results yesterday and I just triggered a rebuild to pickup the fixed ubiquity, so glad that nothing regressed in that last image :)
#edubuntu 2014-01-24
<statick> hi
<statick> you are speak spanish
#edubuntu 2014-01-25
<rustuptwist> to go from say kubuntu 12.04.03 to edubuntu via download is a fairly simple task? I want to get my childrens laptops running edubuntu
#edubuntu 2015-01-22
<airjump> hi
#edubuntu 2017-01-27
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxd (xenial-backports/main) [2.7-0ubuntu2~ubuntu16.04.1 => 2.8-0ubuntu1~ubuntu16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-01-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: cherrypy3 [amd64] (bionic-proposed/main) [8.9.1-2] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-01-26
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-utils (xenial-proposed/main) [0.27-0ubuntu24 => 0.27-0ubuntu25] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2019-01-27
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (cosmic-proposed/main) [18.4-7-g4652b196-0ubuntu1 => 18.5-17-gd1a2fe73-0ubuntu1~18.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (bionic-proposed/main) [18.4-0ubuntu1~18.04.1 => 18.5-17-gd1a2fe73-0ubuntu1~18.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [18.4-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 18.5-17-gd1a2fe73-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-01-23
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: lybniz [amd64] (focal-proposed/universe) [3.0.4-1] (edubuntu)
