#ubuntu-touch 2013-02-11
<ktogias-office> Hi
<ktogias-office> I have submitted a bug report about multitouch support on a Sony Vaio Duo 11 ultrabook/windows tablet hybrid I purchased recently. The bug report and attached info/log files is at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-evdev/+bug/1121379. Any guidance in order to further investigate or test fixes will be appreciated.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1121379 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu) "Multiple finger touch fails on Sony Vaio Duo 11 running Ubuntu 12.10 (N-Trig DuoSense MultiTouch)" [Undecided,New]
<ktogias> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-evdev/+bug/1121379
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1121379 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu) "Multiple finger touch fails on Sony Vaio Duo 11 running Ubuntu 12.10 (N-Trig DuoSense MultiTouch)" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-touch 2013-02-13
<WebVisitor-2> Hello All
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-10
<Nick7569> Hello is there a way to make TextArea have html tags ?
<Nick7569> I will try Text.NativeRendering
<Nick4265> does not work
<Nick4265> does not work
<Nick3976> Yeah niether Text.NativeRendering nor QtRendering wil work
<dudelove> see http://imgur.com/T2ivM58
<jakssoule> What's Ubuntu Touch's current application support consist of as far as legacy Ubuntu apps go? (X11 applications and whatnot.)
<dholbach> good morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<sil2100> Morning
<tsdgeos> file:///usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/Tabs.qml:394: ReferenceError: undefined is not defined
<tsdgeos> zsombi: timp: âââ
<zsombi> tsdgeos: :) interesting... but you can forget about that :)
<tsdgeos> sure
<tsdgeos> it's just a very weird warning :D
<zsombi> tsdgeos: Tabs will be reworked, toolbar will vanish...
<tsdgeos> any clue what causes it?
<zsombi> tsdgeos: no idea....
<zsombi> tsdgeos: have you got some new design about the tabs?
<tsdgeos> zsombi: nope, why?
<zsombi> tsdgeos: because Tabs won't anymore look like they do now...
<zsombi> tsdgeos: and the TabBar will loose its current behavior...
<tsdgeos> zsombi: well i guess design wants that? so they want that for the dash too
<tsdgeos> hope they don't expect us to deviate from the sdk again
<zsombi> tsdgeos: the homescreen will no longer scroll from the tabs, only thru swiping horizontally
<zsombi> tsdgeos: and no more toolbar, that vanishes
<tsdgeos> and they probably want that for yesterday
<zsombi> tsdgeos: actually you will need to use the header stuff from UITK
<zsombi> tsdgeos: obviously :D
<seb128> mardy, hey, can we get a gnome-control-center-signon package update for unity-control-center in trusty?
<mardy> seb128: yep, the code is in trunk; dbarth: can you enter a Landing Ask for it? ^
<seb128> mardy, thanks
<dbarth> seb128, mardy: will do
<dbarth> seb128: is thre a bug reference for the change you need?
<seb128> dbarth, thanks
<seb128> dbarth, bug #1257505
<ubot5> bug 1257505 in gnome-control-center-signon (Ubuntu) "Create Unity Control Center so can remain on old GNOME Control Center version" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1257505
<seb128> dbarth, it's the last package that needs to be transitioned for that one to be complete
<SquirrelCZECH_> hi folks
<SquirrelCZECH_> :)
<SquirrelCZECH_> ow is Ubuntu Touch on Nexus 7? (that one with 1280x800 res, Tegra 3 etc...)
 * SquirrelCZECH_ got a chance to buy one for cheap price...
<davmor2> Hey guys is quit in the hud meant to actually quit the app?
<popey> davmor2: bug 1269409
<ubot5> bug 1269409 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "Reenable closing apps from HUD" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1269409
<davmor2> popey: thanks
<cwayne> cjwatson, hi, for the preinstalled click packages in the customized build, we've just been pushing the clicks to the device, installing to /custom/click and then tarring up and pulling /custom/click, was wondering if there's an easier, more-supported way to do that?
<Dilawar> Hello
<Dilawar> every one
<Dilawar> I need help regarding installing ubuntu touch on sony arc s
<Dilawar> ?
<greyback> Dilawar: hey, just asking for help won't get you many replies. Instead please ask the specific question you have in mind, and if someone knows the answer, they can reply
<popey> !devices | Dilawar
<ubot5> Dilawar: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<popey> is the device listed there?
<Dilawar> nop
<Dilawar> its sony ericsson arc s
<popey> then you need to find someone to port ubuntu to it
<Dilawar> how do I port ubuntu to it. Appologies for sounding stupid?
<cjwatson> 14:32 <mhall119> actually, this doesn't even need work in click packages, I just need the device images to say "You can install click packages for frameworks ubuntu-sdk-13.10 *or* ubuntu-sdk-14.04-dev"
<cjwatson> mhall119: all you need to do for that is to have the images ship both framework files
<cjwatson> cwayne: that's OK, but maybe we could extend livecd-rootfs/live-build/ubuntu-touch/hooks/60-install-click.chroot or something
<darkdragon-001> has anyone installed Ubuntu Phone on Nexus 5? If yes, which image did you take?
<cwayne> cjwatson, hm yeah, i'll have to take a look.  i tried installing it into the source of the custom tarball, but then the symlinks all point to like "~/Projects/custom-tarball/system/custom/click" which is obviously not correct :)
<popey> darkdragon-001: don't think there's a nexus 5 image available yet?
<ogra_> darkdragon-001, see the mailing list, there are experimental images
<ogra_> darkdragon-001, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6909181/ should work for you if you replace "mako" in line 3 with "hammerhead"
<darkdragon-001> thanks :)
<ogra_> oh, wait, the tarball wont work ...
<ogra_> (it does not have the latest Mir ... hmm)
<darkdragon-001> Is it so much different from the previous version (Nexus 4 or Nexus 7)?
<ogra_> darkdragon-001, grab the three files and instead of all the rootstock stuff, after fastboot flashing the boot and recovery images, just sideload http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-touch-4.4.2-mir.rootfs-armhf.zip
<ogra_> that wont get you an ubuntu-system image but should at least get you ubuntu touch to get an impression
<mhall119> cjwatson: thanks
<cwayne> is it possible to override a job in /etc/init/ by placing the .override in ~/.config/upstart?
<Valduare> question - on something like an asus transformer - when you "dock it" with the keyboard/mouse   will it go to full ubuntu?
<jodh> cwayne: no, ecause /etc/init is used by PID 1 whereas ~/.config/upstart is used by the Session Init. So you can only override a session job by putting the .override in ~/.config/upstart/ - system-level job overrides only live in /etc/init/
<cwayne> jodh, thanks, that's what I figured
<jodh> cwayne: see init(5) for full details.
<cwayne> jodh, thanks
<mardy> jdstrand: hi! It seems that, for an app installed with click, QCoreApplication::applicationName() returns the package component only (not the app name and version); is this expected and correct?
<xnox> when i try phablet-test-run i get a lot of unknown instance on every click app launch, is that known?
<ogra_> xnox, did you run the prepare commands ?
<xnox> ogra_: yeah.
<ogra_> weird
<xnox> i'll reflash to fresh image and try again.
<Valduare> on something like an asus transformer - when you "dock it" with the keyboard/mouse  will it go to full ubuntu?
<sergiusens> xnox, unkown instance is because autopilot polls for the upstart job
<sergiusens> until it's found
<ogra_> oh, right
<ogra_> Valduare, in 15.10 perhaps :)
<xnox> sergiusens: but it's up and available....
<xnox> sergiusens: i see it with initctl list...
<Valduare> ogra_: well thats not very fun :P
<xnox> sergiusens: i thought there was a merge proposal from slangasek to fix this however (such that polling is not needed)
<sergiusens> xnox, then autopilot lost track
<sergiusens> if you have an mr I can also look
<xnox> sergiusens: i'm trying to test https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/phablet-tools/py2-3/+merge/205608
<ogra_> Valduare, what you request will require Mir to actually support this ... currently it does not even support a mouse pointer
<xnox> sergiusens: and i can't figure out if my changes broke everything, or i'm just failing to drive ./phablet-test-run correctly.
<ogra_> Valduare, we also do not have any convergence work started yet, this will start in 14.10 (as announced in several places)
<xnox> sergiusens: when testing use ./phablet-click-test-setup and ./phablet-test-run from that branch.
<Valduare> ok
<Valduare> I think that form factor is going to be the bee's knees
<Valduare> tablet that's dock able
<Shiggitay|Funtoo> rsalveti, r u here
<Valduare> even possibly phone that can dock into a tablet and then to a keyboard/mouse dock   OR a desktop dock
<ogra_> Valduare, for sure, it is just that we are still far from supporting that ... first we need a stable phone system ... then we will slowly extend that to other form factors and in the end take over the desktop with it
<ogra_> that process might strech across a few releases
<Valduare> while I'm dreaming- i'd also like a nice solid aluminum and glass phone for ubuntu to run on :P
 * ogra_ would have liked an ubuntu edge phone ... but well, cant hve everything 
<xnox> sergiusens: actually, i think my merge proposal is buggy, it's working now.
<xnox> and reflash / resetup probably helped.
<dednick> anyone here know if we can somehow increase the size of the root partition on device?
<cwayne> stgraber, ping -- can we get a -demo channel setup?
<davmor2> hmmm who is responsible for the About Phone Page in settings?  A table isn't a phone honest is there a way we can make it smarter?
<sergiusens> just call it About device
<stgraber> cwayne: if you have the details, yes (what it's based on what extra tarballs, downloaded from where, ...)
<pmcgowan> sergiusens, davmor2 or just plain About
<sergiusens> works for me
<Laney> We are design-led, so you need to get that updated instead of just designing.
<Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice#Phone
<Laney> file a bug and assign mpt.
<Laney> s/designing/deciding/
<cwayne> ooh, that looks nice with suru-dark
<pmcgowan> cwayne, is it easy to change themes? we dont have ui for that yet do we?
<cwayne> pmcgowan, no, i was just saying on that wiki page Laney pasted its in suru-dark, and it looks nicer than whats actually on the phone
<cwayne> pmcgowan, there's no ui, but editing /home/phablet/.config/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/theme.ini would work
<pmcgowan> cwayne, ack
<mpt> davmor2, bug 1258211
<ubot5> bug 1258211 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) ""About this phone" makes no sense on other devices" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258211
<davmor2> mpt: fantastic thanks :)
<mhall119> who's the primary developer for the messaging-app?
<davmor2> mhall119: you volunteering? ;)
<mhall119> nope
<sergiusens> mhall119, boiko or renato or salem_
<renato> mhall119, sergiusens, the main developer is salem_
<salem_> mhall119, hey
<mhall119> salem_: hey, is it by design that the header doesn't hide when you scroll messages? or can I propose an MP to fix it?
<salem_> mhall119, I think that was a design decision, so the recipient is always visible.
<mhall119> it takes up too much space
<mhall119> salem_: who was the designer?
<msvb-lab> Anyone know if <newproj>.qmlproject.user files from Ubuntu-SDK new projects should be checked into revision control?
<msvb-lab> ...or maybe must be checked in for some reason?
<msvb-lab> ...or should not be checked in?
<mhall119> msvb-lab: .user files should not be in version control
<msvb-lab> mhall119: Why not, does Ubuntu-SDK store passwords and private UUIDs in them without the developer knowing?
<msvb-lab> Trying to figure out why no 'ignore' file is generated with the .qmlproject.user file by default.
<msvb-lab> When I look in a freshly generated .qmlproject.user file there's nothing harmful, and the tab and style definitions could be useful to others.
<msvb-lab> ...but my gut feeling is that mhall119 is right, that they shouldn't be checked in.
<mhall119> msvb-lab: it's generally user preferences for the project (and maybe local-specific settings and paths)
<mhall119> not the kind of thing that everybody in the project wants to have the same values for
<msvb-lab> Okay, you're right. And I don't want to advertise the paths of my filesystem to the public either.
<msvb-lab> ...so wouldn't it be a good idea to generate a 'ignore' file with a .qmlproject.user entry on new project creation?
<kenvandine> tedg, ping
<kenvandine> tedg, i'm not nagging about those ual branches :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Howdy, back in the cold North?
<kenvandine> tedg, i have a backtrace that hints at ual though :)
<kenvandine> tedg, we did have a little snow today :)
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6910724/
<kenvandine> that is with ual built with all of those proposed branches
<tedg> kenvandine, Which set, the ones in silo now?
<kenvandine> tedg, including workaround-lp1277737
<kenvandine> all the ones in +activereviews
<kenvandine> i can't reproduce that crash on the desktop at all
<kenvandine> but i can hit it pretty reliably on the phone
<tedg> Ah, oh, that's a lot of them.
<kenvandine> indeed :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Can you translate that line number for me?
<kenvandine> if i do things that trigger calling start_application in relatively short intervals from the hub
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6910745/
<kenvandine> line 36 there is 468
<tedg> Hmm, okay.
<kenvandine> i can't reproduce it at all on the desktop though
<kenvandine> i've beat the crap out of it and no crash
<tedg> It's clearly not NULL as it's 0x54...
<kenvandine> but switching between apps with the hub 3 or 4 times on the phone and it crashes
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> tedg, racey?
<tedg> kenvandine, Possible to run under valgrind?  Perhaps a memory section being overwritten?
<kenvandine> ugh... not sure i want to try that on my n4
<tedg> That data structure is allocated each time, so it really shouldn't matter what independent runs do.
 * rickspencer3 upgrades to 173
<kenvandine> tedg, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6910825/
<kenvandine> tedg, slight variation...
<kenvandine> line 471 is         g_free(data->dbus_path);
<tedg> kenvandine, Guessing it must be double freeing that structure
<kenvandine> and line 65 is                 if (timespent > 500 /* ms */ * 1000 /* ms to us */) {
<kenvandine>                         second_exec_complete(data);
<kenvandine> that's 64 and 65
<tedg> Probably just need to convert it to an object to better handle the referencing.
<kenvandine> so maybe these crashes are directly related to that last branch?
<tedg> The workaround one?
<kenvandine> yeah
<stgraber> cwayne: sorry for the delay, we had a couple of stuff publishing at the same time, taking over an hour to import, then I found a whole lot of the customization channels were broken due to the dropped /build/ (not all of them dropped it so things weren't terribly consistent in the config)
<tedg> No, that's not in the lib
<kenvandine> ah... ok
<stgraber> cwayne: I "think" I fixed everything now and I'm running the importer again in debug mode to check that everything is clean
<tedg> kenvandine, Could you check to see if you can get it to happen with silo 5?  https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-005/
<tedg> kenvandine, Give a good place to start bisecting.
<cwayne> stgraber, oh crap, im sorry about the /build/ thing, I can make them all go there if it's easier/more maintainable for you
<stgraber> cwayne: they seem to all be using that but savilerow-trusty at the moment, so yeah, if you change that last one just let me know and I'll update the config to reflect that
<kenvandine> tedg, sure
<kenvandine> tedg, too bad we don't have dbg packages in the silo's
<cwayne> stgraber, ah, im afraid savilerow-trusty is actually the 'right' one, so if we were to update them it'd be putting the other ones into /build/
<tedg> kenvandine, Isn't that something that can be turned on in an individual PPA basis?
<stgraber> cwayne: oh right, well, whatever, I think my config is currently right so let's keep things as they are for now ;)
<kenvandine> tedg, i think so
<cwayne> stgraber, works for me :)
<kenvandine> tedg, with the silo http://paste.ubuntu.com/6910885/
<kenvandine> no line number... but looks similar
<kenvandine> g_variant_release_children
<tedg> Yeah, interestingly a more sane value for the unref() call.
<tedg> Trying to figure how I could recreate...
<stgraber> cwayne: alright, all your channels should be up to date now
<kenvandine> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6910905/
<stgraber> cwayne: that may be quite a bump for some of them as some were failing since the 30th of January
<kenvandine> tedg, is that useful?
<cwayne> stgraber, is it not automatically aliased to devel-*?
<cwayne> stgraber, oof, ok, thanks!
<kenvandine> output completed resume twice for a single start_application call
<stgraber> cwayne: on failure, the importer just skips the channel/device, so since those have been failing for a while, you also didn't have images
<cwayne> that would be just the -generic and saucy ones i think, so those haven't changed in awhile anyway
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, just a sec.
<kenvandine> tedg, interestingly it looks like it prints that resume command in multiples, growing depending on the number of times i've raised the app
<kenvandine> and earlier log printed that 4 times in a row
<tedg> kenvandine, Yeah, I think we're not unsubscribing
<kenvandine> yay... glad to see there's a lead :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Writing a test to prove it, but I'm pretty sure this is the fix: lp:~ted/upstart-app-launch/signal-disconnect
<kenvandine> tedg, thx, building it now
<tedg> kenvandine, Okay, test for that fix.  If that's not your problem you have a different one :-)
<kenvandine> i'll know in about 5m :)
 * kenvandine waits for debs...
<kenvandine> my phone is getting a bit warm :)
<tedg> kenvandine, Feature for cold winter days.
<tedg> We'll allow you to add your phone to the build pool.
<kenvandine> tedg, yay!
<kenvandine> it did fix it!
<kenvandine> thanks!
<kenvandine> on that note... time for lunch :)
<ybon> when an image got promotted, does this means that it's the new "devel-proposed" or the new "devel" ?
<tedg> Great, thanks for the info kenvandine!
<Yamagata> hello thar
<Yamagata> whoops, wrong channel
<thomi> tedg: hey - any news on the libUAL landings?
<stgraber> ogra_: heads up, I have now upgraded system-image on the server to current trunk (which includes the bits for OEM/ports). In theory none of those bits are even used on the main server, nevertheless, if you do spot any behaviour change in the next couple of days, please let me know immediately.
<stgraber> I also tweaked the locking mechanism a bit, should be more robust that way
<tedg> thomi, The second set is now "tested"
<thomi> tedg: does the second set include what I need?
<tedg> thomi, It includes the failure signal but not the GIR bindings.  They're next.
<thomi> ok
<ajalkane> anyone know if new emulator image available?
<thomi> we can't land them all together at once?
<tedg> thomi, Well the argument is to decrease risk by landing set by set.
<thomi> tedg: yeah, ok
<darkdragon-001> My wifi on my Nexus 4 is not working. Should this work or is it just not implemented?
<kenvandine> tedg, thanks for the fix... now my content-hub branch is behaving beautifully!
<kenvandine> darkdragon-001, should be working fine
<kenvandine> works on my n4
<darkdragon-001> I installed the latest devel release.
<darkdragon-001> Am I right that there should be a wifi indicator when wifi works correctly? and where do I search for networks? In the settings? There is only a button for me...
<kenvandine> you should see access points in the wifi indicator
<kenvandine> and should show status properly
<kenvandine> works well for me, with the trusty-proposed channel
<darkdragon-001> when I boot it up, there is the wifi indicator for a short time and then it disappears when I swipe down from top. In the settings app, there is only a button "auto-join previous networks" in the wifi menu
<darkdragon-001> kenvadine: doesnt work with trusty-proposed eigher for me...
<pmcgowan> darkdragon-001, did you just install for the first time or has this been working before?
<darkdragon-001> well I installed it about a year ago. Back then it was working. April to today, I used Android again. And today I did the full process (unlock bootloader, install, ...)
<bfiller> tedg: can you update your MR from trunk and re-submit, getting a conflict: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/address-book-app/url-dispatcher
<bfiller> trying to get that released
<tedg> Sure
<bfiller> something else got added to the .install file
<pmcgowan> darkdragon-001, it may be the 4.4 radio firmware issue, check instructions here:
<pmcgowan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation#Getting_phone_calls_to_work_in_Ubuntu_and_Android_4.4
<darkdragon-001> well it seems that mobile networking is working...
<darkdragon-001> But I could try the radio downgrade. Thanks for the link...
<pmcgowan> darkdragon-001, can you check which version you are running  adb shell cat /etc/system-image/channel.ini
<tedg> bfiller, Updated
<bfiller> tedg: thanks!
<cyb3rkn19ht> With the 4.4 radio and trusty I have working mobile networking and texting. I don't need WiFi.
<darkdragon-001> pmcgowan: trusty-proposed, like I said
<pmcgowan> darkdragon-001, ah ok, should work then
<darkdragon-001> cyb3rkn19ht: same for me. but instead I prefer to use wifi when at home...
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-11
<hynekzalesak> hello :)
<hynekzalesak> is here any czech?
<Mithun> can any one help me to install Ubuntu touch in my SONY TABLET S
<Mithun> Though I don't see it in UBUNTU device list
<Mithun> can any one help me to install Ubuntu touch in my SONY TABLET S
<tvoss> pitti, good morning :)
<pitti> hey tvoss, wie gehts?
<tvoss> pitti, hey :) gut geht's und selber?
<pitti> tvoss: gut, danke! wrestling with upgrade testing..
<tvoss> pitti, sounds like fun :)
<janimo> tvoss, what is already written in Go in the current touch images? I saw ogra mentioning that yesterday
<tvoss> janimo, usensord is written in go, I *think* some tooling as well
<janimo> tvoss, ok, I knew about the tooling but not about the daemon
<janimo> thanks
<tvoss> janimo, cool
<ademoglu> guys i have a nexus 4 and i wanna try ubuntu on my phone, any one can say about battery life ?
<moccios> Ciao ragazzi volevo sapere se era possibile installare ubuntu touch su note 2
<ademoglu> guys any one can say about ubuntu phone battery life ?
<dholbach> good morning
<ademoglu> good morning
<mardy> dholbach: do you know if/how it's possible to get information about the click package/application/version from QML?
<mardy> dholbach: or C++ Qt, even
<dholbach> mardy, good question - I don't know
<mardy> Kaleo: maybe you know? ^
<dholbach> it'd surprise me if there was a way, but it looks like worth having
<mardy> dholbach: I think that QCoreApplication::applicationName() holds the application part of it, but not the package or version
<dholbach> maybe worth bringing up on ubuntu-phone@?
<mardy> dholbach: nope, I just found some info in http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
<mardy> dholbach: see at the end of the page: there is an APP_ID environment variable which contains the full app ID
<dholbach> aha!
<ogra_> janimo, what tvoss said
<janimo> ogra_, ack
<ogra_> i think there are plans for powerd to go go as well at some point
<ogra_> gogo powerd ;)
<asac> do we have a mediaservice bzr branch yet?
<popey> mpt: do we have a set order for the indicators on touch? I couldn't find anything specific other than https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StatusBar
<ogra_> asac, do you mean mediascanner ? https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mediascanner
<asac> ogra_: no i am talking about mediaservice that jhodapp|afk is working on
<ogra_> asac, ah, not sure about that one (i thinnk he is still debugging video issues on 4.4)
<ogra_> asac, https://code.launchpad.net/~jhodapp
<ogra_> there is a media-hub
<tsdgeos> tvoss: ping
<asac> ogra_: yeah. that sounds right
<tvoss> tsdgeos, pong
<tsdgeos> tvoss: seen the comment in https://code.launchpad.net/~thomas-voss/unity-mir/refactor-oom-score-adj-to-rely-on-process-cpp/+merge/201145 ?
<tvoss> tsdgeos, nope
<tsdgeos> tvoss: it's crashing, we were planning with sil2100 and mzanetti to rebuild the silo without that one
<tvoss> tsdgeos, fixing
<tsdgeos> tvoss: but i'm pretty sure it's just the missing initiaization
<tsdgeos> so if you can get it done
<tvoss> tsdgeos, yup, branching
<tsdgeos> maybe we can get sil2100 not to remove the MR but to just rebuild it
<tsdgeos> sil2100: ok, don't remove it then :D sorry ^_^
<mzanetti> tsdgeos: sil2100: I already removed it from the spreadsheet
<tsdgeos> wait wait
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1262711 has been around for some time but is "Incomplete" â¹
<tsdgeos> we're getting tvoss to fix it
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1262711 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Unity crashes with lots of music displayed in expanded music category in home scope" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<James> hi
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: add it back :D
<Guest61737> can i install ubuntu Phone on my nokia lumia 1020
<tvoss> tsdgeos, all of the Application* should be initialized to nullptrs if I understand it correctly
<tvoss> tsdgeos, cancel that, that's done in the ctor
<tsdgeos> tvoss: except for the one i mention
<tsdgeos> it was
<tsdgeos> but then it was removed
<tsdgeos> in your MR
<tsdgeos> , m_focusedApplication(nullptr)
<tvoss> tsdgeos, yup, I merged in the sidestage and mainstage changes, dropped it while doing that
<tsdgeos> tvoss: we need it back :-)
<tvoss> tsdgeos, pushed
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: sil2100: ok, i've re-approved it. Can we get it back to the silo and get a rebuild?
<mzanetti> tsdgeos: I added it back to the spreadsheet... not sure how to rebuild
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: let's wait for sil2100
<tsdgeos> he was in a meeting
<sil2100> Back
<sil2100> tvoss, tsdgeos: ok, so that I get the right picture - is it not required to remove that MR now?
<tsdgeos> sil2100: no, the MR has been updated to fix the problem
<tsdgeos> sil2100: we just need a rebuild
<tsdgeos> s/no/yes
<tsdgeos> depending to which question i'm answering :D
<tsdgeos> yes, you get the picture right, no, the MR should not be removed
<sil2100> tvoss, tsdgeos: if you just updated, you can rebuild it now without any problems - if only unity-mir changed you can press 'Rebuild' and set unity-mir in the list of components to build ;)
<sil2100> It will then not waste the time with rebuilding unity8 as well
<tsdgeos> sil2100: never done that, can you be a bit more specific?
 * sil2100 wonders if tsdgeos has the power to do that
<tsdgeos> probably not
<tsdgeos> sil2100: mzanetti should have i guess
<tsdgeos> he went through all the teaching and stuff
<tsdgeos> mzanetti <-> sil2100
<sil2100> Right ;) And I guess he'll be filling in for Saviq as the lander this week
<tsdgeos> that's the plan
<sil2100> mzanetti: can you go to silo landing-004, click Build and enter unity-mir in the "PREPARE_ONLY" field?
<sil2100> mzanetti: this way you'll rebuild only unity-mir and things will start working again
<sil2100> tsdgeos, tvoss, mzanetti: thanks guys!
<sil2100> Just remember that, sadly, you'll have to re-test everything again according to your test plans
<mpt> popey, it was implied by the list being a numbered one, but Iâve made it explicit now. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StatusBar?action=diff&rev2=19&rev1=18>
<tsdgeos> sil2100: sure
<popey> thanks mpt
<mzanetti> sil2100: ok. done. thanks
<mzanetti> dammit. no
 * mzanetti is missing job/build permission
<mzanetti> sil2100: ^
<sil2100> ouch! That should not happen, let me add you
 * sil2100 thought didrocks did that
<sil2100> hm, wait, I see you're added
<sil2100> mzanetti: make sure that when you're in the jenkins job and log-in you check the checkbox around ci-train-users
<sil2100> mzanetti: try maybe re-logging
<mzanetti> sil2100: that's it. thanks
<mzanetti> building now
<mzanetti> tsdgeos: ^
<tsdgeos> coo
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: do you know how to watch it build?
<sil2100> \o/
<mzanetti> I think the spreadsheet would update the status from Preparing to "ready" or something
<mzanetti> besides obviously watching the jenkins job
<tsdgeos> mzanetti: ah the building link points to http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-004-1-build/15/console :)
<dholbach> hey sil2100, how are you doing? I'm just helping out here and keep on forgetting what the right process is to get something autolanded... can you help me understand what I need to do to get ubuntu-html5-theme and unity-webapps-qml into trusty and subsequently on the image? O:-)
<sil2100> dholbach: hello! I'm fine, thanks, how about you? :) As for landing things into the archive and image, currently we are using something that's called CITrain - it's a new approach, but most of our upstream projects use it
<sil2100> dholbach: it requires some 'basic training' on the concepts, I'm sure all of our upstreams are supposed to be trained and switched to it soon
<dholbach> sil2100, doing well - either the jetlag hasn't caught up with me yet or I'm actually good for now :)
<dholbach> sil2100, do we have some docs about it somewhere? I didn't receive training, but would like to help the webapps guys - it also might help, so I don't need to ask every time about a process I don't know :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<dholbach> robru, do you know what needs to get done to land unity-webapps-qml and ubuntu-html5-theme? the former seems to had the last upload reverted, but to me none of the changes from last time look like they could have broken anything (at least from a packaging side of things)
<dholbach> dbarth, ^
<ogra_> dholbach, i think it pulled new packages into the desktop
<ogra_> (which have not been MIRed before or some such)
<MacSlow> greyback, hey there
<greyback> MacSlow: heya
<Cihan> hi
<Cihan> i have a question for ubuntu phone developers
<Cihan> do you consider releasing "ubuntu for phone" for samsung galaxy s3 SHV-E210K?
<ogra_> Cihan, thats something the community needs to do
<ogra_> !devices | Cihan
<ubot5> Cihan: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ogra_> there might be a port on that page
<ogra_> (more or less working)
<Cihan> Thank you all. I had seen the list before already and i was wondering is there an idea to expand the device list with SHV-E210K?
<Cihan> But Thanks For replies. Have a great day to you all.
<dholbach> ogra_, hum like which?
<ogra_> dholbach, dunno, ask stgraber
<ogra_> he did the revert iirc
<dholbach> ubuntun-html5-theme -> ubuntu-html5-ui-toolkit maybe?
<ogra_> could be
<dednick> anyone know why my /etc/fstab is being overwritten when i reboot device? ie. how do i add a auto mount on touch device?
<dednick> ogra_: ^ ?
<ogra_> your fstab is coming from android iirc
<ogra_> well, from android an generation of the writable paths
<dednick> hm
<ogra_> what do you want to automount ... and how ?
 * ogra_ isnt even sure we run the USB port in host mode at all 
<dednick> i need to do something very dodgey to get some more space available on my root part :) eg. mount /usr/share at ~/usr/share
<ogra_> you could use my roostock script and hack up the size of the image in the script
<ogra_> in fact your mail got me thinking about adding a --size option to it for such cases :)
<dednick> that sounds promising!
<mardy> jdstrand: ping
<dednick> ogra_: yeah, that would be really useful
<FuLgOrE_> ogra_: [34465.164750] usb 1-1: Product: DataTraveler 3.0 ;-)
<FuLgOrE_> usb works as host, I would say
<FuLgOrE_> ogra_: if I connect a usb-stick. it will be /dev/sda it works on the Nexus 5 ootb :)
<ogra_> dednick, grab the system.img files for your device from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/ ... also grab the tar.gz rootfs file ... then grab rootstock-touch-installer and change the line:
<ogra_> do_shell "dd if=/dev/zero of=/data/system.img seek=500K bs=4096 count=0 >/dev/null 2>&1"
<ogra_> to read:
<ogra_> do_shell "dd if=/dev/zero of=/data/system.img seek=1000K bs=4096 count=0 >/dev/null 2>&1"
<ogra_> then run rootsotck-touch-install as described ...
<ogra_> that should make you end up with a 4G image
<dednick> ogra_: cool. thanks, i'll give it a try
<ogra_> FuLgOrE_, i doubt dednick is on a nexus5 and i dont think all devices have the HW or the feature in the kernel
<ogra_> iirc galaxy nexus cant doe host mode at all and n4 needs an intrusive kernel patch which we might or might not ship
<FuLgOrE_> ogra_: as fas as I know for example the N4 should also be able to use usb host
<FuLgOrE_> oh
<dednick> i'm on N10
<FuLgOrE_> I thought you just need to connect 5V additionally to supply USB devices on N4
<tsdgeos> sil2100: mzanetti and me have run autopilot and manual tests and all is green, what do we do now?
<tsdgeos> well, he ran manual tests, me only autopilot
<mzanetti> yeah. I did manual testplans for unity-mir and unity8. everything working as expected
<sil2100> tsdgeos: ok, so now I'll try landing it, but we need to wait around 1h since we want to kick a new image with the nested mir thing
<sil2100> mzanetti, tsdgeos: thanks!
<tsdgeos> ok
<mzanetti> no problem
<sil2100> It will land today for sure
<mzanetti> \o/
<mzanetti> thanks sil2100
<sil2100> np :) Nice to see everything resolved
<tvoss> mpt, you just swamped my inbox :)
<popey> you and everyone else â»
<davmor2> tvoss: you make that sound like it doesn't happen daily ;)
<tvoss> popey, :)
<mpt> tvoss, donât worry, just 181 to go
<mandel> popey, you might know this, in the bug you reported about a missing file in an update, are we already using push notifications for the updates?
<popey> mandel: i dont think we have any kind of push notification.. it's just polling when you open settings (I believe)
<beuno> mandel, no push notifications yet
<mandel> popey, ok, 'cause that could be a change.. I'll ping barry, I have already pinged gatox to provide info about the changes in system settings
<mandel> beuno, ack, thx for the info
<dednick> ogra_: getting an error from script. "adding android system image to installation ... mount: could not find any free loop device"
<ogra_> you only changed the one line ?
<ogra_> switching from 500K to 1000K ?
<dholbach> stgraber, if you have a bit of time, could you tell me what needs to be done to unblock the landing of lp:unity-webapps-qml?
<dednick> ogra_: sorry, i was using all loop devices :/
<jdstrand> mardy: hey
<ogra_> dednick, ah, phew, so not the scripts fault then :)
<mardy> jdstrand: hi, it's about bug 1278859
<ubot5> bug 1278859 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Click apps need access to their own Online Accounts files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278859
<tvoss> mpt, seriously?
<jdstrand> mardy: so, the files in @{HOME}/.local/share/accounts/ are symlinks to the actual file?
<jdstrand> files*
<mardy> jdstrand: yes
<asd_> ciao
<mardy> jdstrand: without the apparmor rule to allow access to /.local/share/accounts/**, the access to the real file is denied, even if I think the app should be able to read them (because it came with its click package)
<jdstrand> ok, that means that the account providers can't run/use the others, so that is good, however it does mean that the providers can see what other providers are installed
<jdstrand> mardy: the symlink has to be dereferenced and for that you need read on the symlink
<mardy> jdstrand: seeing what providers are installed is not a problem, but I disagree with the first part of yoru sentence: "the account providers can't run/use the others,"
<jdstrand> mardy: who is the one dereferencing the symlink?
<mardy> jdstrand: this is indeed what we'd like, but it doesn't seem to happen
<dednick> ogra_: unfortunately that error was with 500K, with 1000K i get: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6914945/
<jdstrand> mardy: ok, well lets talk through this
<mardy> jdstrand: the application reads the symlinks, via libaccounts (which is just a library)
<jdstrand> mardy: ~/.local/share/accounts/foo -> ~/.local/share/foo/provider
<jdstrand> ~/.local/share/accounts/bar ->  ~/.local/share/bar/provider
<jdstrand> mardy: is it setup something like that?
<mardy> jdstrand: yes
<jdstrand> so, 'bar' should not have read access to ~/.local/share/foo/provider
<mardy> jdstrand: I did a quick test (maybe wrong?), and it seems to me that if an app has access to ~/.local/share/accounts/foo, then it can read also ~/.local/share/foo/provider, wherever that is
<jdstrand> so while 'bar' can see that ~/.local/share/accounts/foo points to ~/.local/share/foo/provider, it shouldn't be able to actually use ~/.local/share/foo/provider
<mardy> jdstrand: ideally, yes
<mardy> jdstrand: but it doesn't seem to work that way
<jdstrand> that would be a grave bug in apparmor, but I really doubt that is the case
<jdstrand> apparmor is supposed to dereference symlinks
<mardy> jdstrand: does apparmor have a cache?
<jdstrand> there are times when it doesn't have to revalidate
<jdstrand> but I don't think that is it
<mardy> jdstrand: I ran the app, which had access to the symlink and the target file, then I changed the target file to be somewhere the app shouldn't be able to read it, then I started the app again
<jdstrand> can you show me the app's policy?
<mardy> jdstrand: well, let me reboot :-)
<mardy> jdstrand: OK, I'll upload it somewhere
<mardy> jdstrand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6914983/
<ogra_> dednick, hmm
<ogra_> dednick, is that a clean system ? or did you hack up anything on it before
<jdstrand> mardy: can you paste 'ls -l ~/.local/share/accounts/'
<mardy> jdstrand: lrwxrwxrwx 1 phablet phablet 86 Feb 11 13:48 .local/share/accounts/services/com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-facebook_webapp-facebook.service -> /home/phablet/tmp/com.ubuntu.developer.webapps.webapp-facebook_webapp-facebook.service
<mardy> jdstrand: I moved the target file under ~/tmp/; I guess the app shouldn't be able to read that
<jdstrand> no, it shouldn't
<jdstrand> mardy: can you give the output of 'sudo aa-status'
<mardy> jdstrand: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6915012/
<jdstrand> mardy: is there a way you can run that command when the app is accessing the provider?
<dednick> ogra_: it was clean
<mardy> jdstrand: ooops, I just tried now with aa-exec and strace, and it seems like that symlink is not being read now
<mardy> jdstrand: I might have some caching in libaccounts-glib which I forgot about :-)
<jdstrand> mardy: how are you reloading the profile?
<ogra_> weird, looks to me like either your /data partition doesnt have 4G free space or there was something mounted on /cache/system already
<mardy> jdstrand: I rebooted the device; do I have to reload the profile, or are the profiles reloaded at boot?
<ogra_> dednick, your device is in recovery mode when running the installer script ?
<jdstrand> mardy: the profiles are loaded on boot, but if you are modifying click package policy, you have to be aware of a couple of things
<dednick> ogra_: yeah. it works with 500K, but not 1000K
<ogra_> that is strange
<jdstrand> mardy: if you modify /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/click_...foo, then you can use apparmor_parser -r /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/click_...foo like normal
<jdstrand> mardy: but, if you modify the policy group in /usr/share/apparmor/easyprof/ubuntu/policygroups/1.*/accounts, you'll need to regenerate the profile in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles/click_...foo by running 'sudo aa-clickhook -f'
<jdstrand> mardy: I don't know if that was the case, but maybe that had something to do with it?
<jdstrand> mardy: anyhoo, you see that apparmor will allow the dereference but not the read, which leaves us with leaking click installed providers
<mardy> jdstrand: no, sorry, forget about it, I checked and the application is not reading that file at all
<mardy> jdstrand: that's fine
<jdstrand> mardy: you say that is not a problem-- why is that? I can see that argument for system installed providers, but this is a way to see if the device has facebook installed, for example
<mardy> jdstrand: app can read the account DB anyway
<jdstrand> oh right
<jdstrand> ok, then when I update the policy, I'll add that note so I don't forget again
<jdstrand> :)
<jdstrand> mardy: do you mind if I change the description in the bug?
<mardy> jdstrand: OK, thanks; do you know when you'll update it?
<ogra_> dednick, can you check from recovery if your /data partition has enough space ?
<mardy> jdstrand: feel free to
<jdstrand> mardy: I should be able to do it soon-- I have another update I need to push for alex-abreu
<mardy> jdstrand: excellent, thanks!
<alex__> mardy, yup
<mardy> alex-abreu: ah, you were under disguise :-)
<alex-abreu> yeah
<alex-abreu> not sure where the name cae from
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: ah, my tab complete saw that, but I didn't know it was you :)
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, :) I hide from security
<dednick> ogra_: /data has 12.7G free
<mardy> alex-abreu: so, I finally got everything working, once bug 1278859 will be fixed
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: I'm up to date as of yesterday, does that mean I can test the click on the desktop and it should work?
<ubot5> bug 1278859 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Click apps need access to their own Online Accounts files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278859
<ogra_> dednick, hmm, then i dont get why it breaks ... 1000K shouldnt make a difference in the code ... just produce a bigger loop img
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, I have to check if anything was released ...
<mardy> alex-abreu: except one big issue: apparmor blocks the call from webapp-container to signon-ui, to get the cookies
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, its been on the release sheet for 5days now ...
<dbarth> jdstrand: there is also https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme/+bug/1278818 which i filed this morning
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1278818 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "HTML5 container needs apparmor authorization" [Undecided,New]
<dednick> ogra_: i'll see if i can run the commands manually and see if i get any more meaningful errors.
<dbarth> alex-abreu: i couldn't find the reference to one for the container in the hmtl5-blocker's list
<alex-abreu> mardy, why does it? ... didn't you have any policy update for that
<ogra_> dednick, just remove all the redirection to /dev/null at the end of the dd and mke2fs
<mardy> alex-abreu: no, because I thought the call would come from an unconfined process
<alex-abreu> dbarth, didn't we put unity-webapps-qml in it along w/ ubuntu-html5-theme ?
<mardy> alex-abreu: and I definitely don't want to create an apparmor rule for that, or everyone will be able to read any cookies
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, dbarth, what is failing is the webapps-qml package not being up to date, while the html5 one has been release prematurely
<alex-abreu> mardy, ah! and the webapps container is confined ...
<dednick> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6915091/
<alex-abreu> mardy, well ... let me check ... 1. you validate that the app is what it prentends to be, 2. the app has to have a .application file installed w/ the proper provider
<dbarth> mardy, alex-abreu: then what if we did a merge proposal for jdstrand instead?
<mardy> alex-abreu: of course, signon-ui could check who the caller is and see if it's in the ACL for the account, but that's growing into something big
<ogra_> dednick, woah
<dbarth> cause i'd rather test the changes in a ppa before we presse the big landing button
<jdstrand> dbarth, alex-abreu: aren't bug #1274640 and bug #1278818 the same bug?
<ubot5> bug 1274640 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[Html5 apps] Add the new HTML5 launcher /usr/bin/ubuntu-html5-app-launcher to the ubuntu-sdk profile" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274640
<ubot5> bug 1278818 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "HTML5 container needs apparmor authorization" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278818
<dbarth> jdstrand: ah correct, i'll mark as a duplicate
<ogra_> dednick, can you pastebin the while script ?
<alex-abreu> dbarth, jdstrand mmh yes, they seem to be
<ogra_> *whole
<mardy> dbarth: no way :-) That would mean that any application can read the cookies of any account
<ogra_> dednick, i.e. ... pastebinit rootsotck-touch-install
<dednick> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6915099/
<dednick> hm. need 64bit dd?
<jdstrand> dbarth: right, so alex-abreu filed 1274640 last week and I am aware of it. I'm working with alex-abreu on how to test it
<jdstrand> actually, that was more like a week and a half ago
<jdstrand> anyhoo, yes, on it
<ogra_> dednick, hmm, shouldnt really matter ... i dont really get it
<dbarth> jdstrand: ok
<dbarth> jdstrand: can you ping us a branch we can make test packages from?
<dbarth> jdstrand: once you're done with the changes
<alex-abreu> mardy, dbarth not sure if there is way to mitigate it ... dont you in addition to validating that the app is who it is supposed to be, also validate that the is listed as an application w/ a "webapp" .application file
<alex-abreu> mardy, so its not *any* app really
<alex-abreu> mardy, you could also check that the app has a webapp apparmor profile
<ogra_> dednick, testing the dd line on maguro just works here ...
<alex-abreu> mardy, those 3 checks might be "enough" and acceptable
<dbarth> alex-abreu, mardy: we can finish that during that call, i'll just open the line
<mardy> alex-abreu: well, any app can install an .application file
<alex-abreu> dbarth, what jdstrand was missing is the updated unity-webapps-qml (which hasn't been released yet :/) ...
<ogra_> ogra@styx:~/Devel/branches/rootstock-ng$ adb shell "dd if=/dev/zero of=/userdata/test.img seek=1000K bs=4096 count=0"
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, there is one updated version on our staging ppa though that you can work from
<ogra_> ogra@styx:~/Devel/branches/rootstock-ng$ adb shell "ls -lh /userdata/test.img"
<ogra_> -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 4.0G Feb 11 14:55 /userdata/test.img
<ogra_> dednick, ^^^
<dednick> hm
 * ogra_ tries from recovery mode ... probably the dd there is different 
<alex-abreu> mardy, sure, but the app need to have "ubuntu-webapp" app armor profile ... whicch I assume you can check & validate & brings us closer to what we want no?
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: cool, can you point me at that url?
<ogra_> ogra@styx:~/Devel/branches/rootstock-ng$ adb shell "dd if=/dev/zero of=/data/test.img seek=1000K bs=4096 count=0"dd: /data/test.img: Invalid argument
<ogra_> aha
<ogra_> dednick, looks like the dd in recovery has some limitations
<ogra_> :(
<dednick> ogra_: ah. how did you manage it then?
<ogra_> the first one was in a normally booted setup
<mardy> alex-abreu: but any app can declare it, can't it?
<ogra_> the second one in recovery
<ogra_> so it cant process more than 2G with the android dd
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: nm, I found them
<alex-abreu> mardy, well ... sure but the app will be confined according to this profile ...
<dednick> ah, i c
<alex-abreu> not the sdk regular profile
<ogra_> dednick, might be a bionic vs libc thing
<ogra_> the recovery dd is from androids busybox ... linked against bionic
<ogra_> stgraber, did you knwo that ?
<ogra_> *know
<jdstrand> mardy: ok, the only change I am making is I am prepending 'owner ' to your rule
<mardy> jdstrand: what does it do?
<jdstrand> mardy: makes sure the uid of the process matches the owner of the file
<mardy> jdstrand: sounds good
<jdstrand> that's important on multiuser devices
<jdstrand> (and what we use for accounts.db*, etc
<jdstrand> )
<ogra_> dednick, so the only thing that comes to mind is that you can probably remove the dd and mkfs.ext2 from the code and replace it with an adb push for a system.img file you create on the PC ...
<ogra_> so you puch it and mount it ... but create it in advance on a machine with a sane dd
<dednick> ogra_: heh, ok. i might give that a go later.
<robru> dholbach, yes, unity-webapps-qml got reverted because it pulled click into the desktop, which is verboten. That should be fixed in trunk but I've held off on releasing it because I got the impression that there was more that needed to be fixed as well, it was unclear to me that it was ready.
<dholbach> robru, ahhh ok
<robru> dholbach, so please confer with dbarth / alex-abreu to make sure that trunk is in a releasable state and then I can release it.
<dholbach> robru, I looked at the diff earlier and was a bit confused as to what exactly might have broken things - but that was probably including your good fixes already :)
<dholbach> robru, I'll take another look and then we can propose it and get an ACK from stgraber and move forward
<robru> dholbach, ok, great
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: ok, I confirmed it worked. thanks!
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, oh my! thanks a lot!
<alex-abreu> really
<jdstrand> np, sorry it took a while
<jdstrand> I'll test on a device too for good measure
<dednick> ogra_: WOO!
<ogra_> works ?
<dednick> yeah
<dednick> adb push takes about 20 minutes with a 4GB file though :)
<ogra_> lol, yeah
<dholbach> hey mterry, how are you doing? regarding bug 1157732 - do you know what still needs to be done to get qtdeclarative5-accounts-plugin into main?
<ubot5> bug 1157732 in qml-friends (Ubuntu) "[MIR] circle of friends" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157732
<mterry> dholbach, it is approved to enter main, so something just needs to pull it in.  Either a Depends, Build-Depends, or add it to a seed directly
<dholbach> mterry, great!
<dholbach> robru, ^ :)
<robru> dholbach, oh, ok. i guess we should seed it then?
<dholbach> robru, AFAICS unity-webapps-qml is going to pull it in directly
<robru> dholbach, oh ok
<robru> dholbach, so did you do a manual upload of webapps-qml then?
<FuLgOrE_> rsalveti: hi, how is it going? any news regarding the hammerhead image? :-D
<dholbach> robru, not yet - I'm writing a changelog entry summing up the changes since last time right now - if you want, you can take a second look and upload it... just want to make sure the version number trumps what's in the PPAs
<robru> dholbach, no, I won't do an upload until I can get everything under citrain (just waiting for this hangout to end so I can concentrate on doing the transition)
<dholbach> robru, sorry, then I must have misunderstood you - I thought we'd do one upload beforehand and then go on citrain - sure... works for me to use citrain directly
<robru> dholbach, I like citrain a lot so i'd prefer to just go straight there. i think I can do it today
<dholbach> sure sure
<dholbach> robru, and ubuntu-html5-theme too? (I think there was nothing blocking an upload right now)
<robru> dholbach, yeah, they should be released together
<dholbach> robru, fantastic - thanks so much!
<mandel> barry, I'm going to try and land asap a new udm with better error handling etc.. I've spoken with sil2100 to try and do this and then get udm in the CI train
<mandel> barry, maybe that way we get more info regarding the image updates
<barry> mandel: sounds great.  i am going to work up a branch of s-i with better debugging, and while i won't try to land that just yet, at least i'll have a ppa folks can install from and try to gather more information
<mandel> barry, you can use https://launchpad.net/~mandel/+archive/mandel because it has the latests udm in trunk (but nor for armhrf :-/ )
<sergiusens> mandel, ask for armhf builds on #webops ;-)
<mandel> sergiusens, for a private ppa?
<sergiusens> mandel, they might; if not use your team for a ppa and ask for it
<mandel> sergiusens, I'll ping people to get this done asap
<mandel> sil2100, in the mean time, we should try and land the latests udm asap
<stgraber> dholbach: so the problem was that unity-webapps-qml would bring in click, content-hub and a whole bunch of other touch stuff on the desktop which in turn caused breakage for some users (some click process using 100% of CPU running as the lightdm user)
<stgraber> dholbach: I basically referred the problem to didrocks so you may want to check with him
<dholbach> stgraber, gotcha - looks like that's resolved now
<dholbach> thanks
<stgraber> dholbach: when talking about it at the sprint we weren't even quite sure why we have that qml stuff on the desktop in the first place :)
<stgraber> good to hear, it's been resolved
<dholbach> stgraber, for testing apps locally as a developer?
<stgraber> dholbach: well, that doesn't justify it be installed by default for all Unity users
<dholbach> sure
<dholbach> I had no idea it was pulled in for all unity users(?)
<stgraber> (which it is currently, through a maze of a dozen entangled dependencies through the unity stack)
<dholbach> (it wasn't my change, I just tried to help get some other changes landed and wondered what the blockage was)
<dholbach> ok, I see
<stgraber> The following packages will be REMOVED:
<stgraber>   bamfdaemon* libunity-webapps0* ubuntu-desktop* unity* unity-webapps-common* unity-webapps-qml* unity-webapps-service* webapp-container* xul-ext-unity*
<stgraber>   xul-ext-websites-integration*
<stgraber> that's when trying to pull it out of my system
<dholbach> ok
<stgraber> I believe it's meant to replace our old webapp integration or something which may be fine but we have to be very careful not to add extra dependencies to it
<mardy> jdstrand: hi again :-)
<mardy> jdstrand: do you know if the ubuntu-webapps apparmor template is exclusive (or can be made so), that is if an app declares that, we don't allow declaring any other template alongside with it?
<jdstrand> mardy: an app may only declare one template
<alex-abreu> mardy, so there you go!
<alex-abreu> that's whay I thought
<jdstrand> you pick a template (if you don't pick, you get the default 'ubuntu-sdk') and then you add your policy groups on top of it
<mardy> jdstrand, alex-abreu: ah OK, then I meant "policy groups", probably :-)
<jdstrand> this has worked well when differentiating between qml/sdk apps and webapps already, and will be more so with scopes
<alex-abreu> mardy, yeah but there is no policy group for webapps, ...
<jdstrand> currently, we have an ubuntu-sdk template and an ubuntu-webapp template
<alex-abreu> mardy, the apparmor profile for cookies only applies to the ubuntu-webapps 'template' no?
<mardy> alex-abreu: but AFAIK, the only thing that matters to AppArmor are the policy groups, not the template
<jdstrand> either may use any of the policy groups
<mardy> jdstrand: so, to give you a bit of background: there is a D-Bus API which allows an application to retrieve the cookies associated to an account
<mardy> jdstrand: at the moment, only unconfined apps can use it
<jdstrand> mardy: hmm? the way it works is there is policy in each template. the apparmor click hook, stitches together a profile using the template policy and the policy group policy
<jdstrand> s/,//
<mardy> jdstrand: is it practically possible to enable access to that D-Bus method for webapps only?
<jdstrand> yes, by specifying the rules in the ubuntu-webapp template
<mardy> jdstrand: ah, that sounds good :-)
<jdstrand> or, by adding them to the accounts policy group, but denying them in the ubuntu-sdk template
<jdstrand> the former is easier for maintenance
<mardy> jdstrand: yep indeed
<mardy> jdstrand: OK, then I'd need a rule to be added to the ubuntu-webapp template; do you need a new bug, or is there a currently open bug about that profile where I might step into?
<jdstrand> mardy: but, why is this only webapp specific? qml apps can use the online accounts api-- couldn't they also provide a provider?
<mardy> jdstrand: no, this is a very weird API, it's important for webapps only
<alex-abreu> yeah very weird and too open
<jdstrand> or in other words, is this an artificial limitation or am I missing something?
<jdstrand> ok
<ogra_> stgraber, are you aware that the dd in our recovery image is not capable of building images above 2G ?
<jdstrand> file a bug and I'll add it :)
<mardy> jdstrand: only webapps-container should use it, in practice
<mardy> jdstrand: OK, I will, and will try to explain what it does :-)
<jdstrand> then yes, ubuntu-webapp is the perfect place for it
<stgraber> ogra_: nope, so the current code is basically using the biggest possible size we can create then?
<ogra_> yeah
<stgraber> fun
<ogra_> well, there might be a bit more than 2G i only tried 3G ... which failed
<stgraber> do we really need to bump system.img's size again?
<ogra_> i wonder if thats a bionic or a busybox limitation
<Tassadar> it's busybox, it's using 32bit integers
<Tassadar> (we've encountered that in TWRP...)
<ogra_> stgraber, nope, but for rootsotck-ng i was pondering to ass a --size option for people needing more space
<ogra_> s/ass/add/
<ogra_> Tassadar, ah, thanks !
<mardy> alex-abreu: https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/webbrowser-app/cookie-delay/+merge/205795 (please merge trunk into your branch, so you'll see a smaller diff)
<alex-abreu> mardy, can you merge trunk?
<Tassadar> ogra_: busybox has CONFIG_LFS, which should fix that. But AOSP recovery doesn't use busybox, that's just CWM.
<Tassadar> AOSP uses toolbox, and it's dd should be able to handle bigger files - the code uses int64
<ogra_> i think we still use the CWM recovery
<ogra_> even in the 4.4 images
<mardy> alex-abreu: done
<ogra_> mterry, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/ ... 175 is nested ...
<ogra_> (cross yur fingers)
<mterry> ogra_, crossed!  :)
<ogra_> :)
<mardy> jdstrand, alex-abreu: bug 1278934
<ubot5> bug 1278934 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-webapps template needs access to SignonUi API" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278934
<OrokuSaki> So... has ubuntu-touch trusty been upgraded to support KitKat yet?
<ogra_> OrokuSaki, there are experimantal images ... default hanst been upgraded yet (but is on its way)
<OrokuSaki> Sup _ogra =) How can I test that branch? phablet-tools?
<ogra_> OrokuSaki, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6915695/
<OrokuSaki> ogra! Thank you so much.. you have given me something new to do in life.. =)
<ogra_> :)
<Kaleo> carajillo de baileys
<kaimast> wow the new update manager is beautiful
<alex-abreu> Kaleo, is that what you are getting ?
<Kaleo> alex-abreu, yes
<Kaleo> alex-abreu, it's going to be my ritual to relax :)
<alex-abreu> yeah
<alex-abreu> I'd gladly have one
<Kaleo> alex-abreu, easy enough to make :)
<alex-abreu> I am out of baileys
<Kaleo> ahahah
<Kaleo> order online :)
<Kaleo> next day delivery
<alex-abreu> ahah
<Kaleo> or for some lucky ones, same day delivery
<alex-abreu> Kaleo, we have high taxes on alcohol ...
<Kaleo> alex-abreu, sorry :(
<alex-abreu> Kaleo, yeah to each his own tax issues :)
<Kaleo> ;)
<Kaleo> got it from the duty free;)
<alex-abreu> I should have ... but already spent quite a bit on money for the kids this time
<Kaleo> alex-abreu, ahahah, damn kids, can't get drunk in peace :)
<jdstrand> mardy: thanks. so, does this mean that the facebook app can get the twitter app's cookies?
<jdstrand> mardy: how do the signon cookies relate to the browser cookies, if at all?
<ogra_> mterry, :(
<ogra_> that doesnt look so good
<mterry> ogra_, guh
 * mterry looks
<alex-abreu> mardy, commented https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/webbrowser-app/cookie-delay/+merge/205795
<OrokuSaki> HAs anyone got gtk3 apps to run on ubuntu touch with Mir?
<OrokuSaki> IS there any other compositor we can run outside of QT?
<OrokuSaki> *trying to ssound smart*
<OrokuSaki> for fun!
<mterry> ogra_, can you talk to me about the settle_after test?  I'm not sure what I'm seeing
<OrokuSaki> time to go get the mail... someone think about that.. running gtk3 with mir
<OrokuSaki> =)
<OrokuSaki> gdm I mean or a damn gnome session
<mterry> The notes_app test failure doesn't seem relevant...
<ogra_> mterry, settle_after is rather ignorable
<ogra_> mterry, we had 100% coverage before ... it needs to be 100% again
<mterry> OK, and I'm suspicious of notes_app test.  Which if both are ignorable, we are OK on mako.  Now looking at maguro
<ogra_> so the notes one is the critical bit
<ogra_> and we are not even at 50% of the tests
<mterry> ogra_, is that a known flaky test?
<ogra_> no
 * mterry isn't sure why all of a sudden in one test we would affect the toolbar's appearance
<mterry> I'll try to reproduce here
<ogra_> most of the flakyness went away with the switch to new utah
<mterry> ogra_, what about maguro tests?  How much a concern are failures there?
<ogra_> they are a concern but not as much as mako
<ogra_> the current rate looks still ok
<ogra_> if it accumulates more we will need to discuss
<ogra_> it is still an supported arch until we switch
<mterry> ogra_, well, I'm about to go to lunch.  When I get back, I will work on any failing tests
<ogra_> mterry, thanks, i'll be around
<OrokuSaki>  funny...
<OrokuSaki> http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/what-programming-is-like.gif
<jdstrand> alex-abreu: ok, I had to update my grouper device, but can confirm that if I use the new qml package and an updated apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu, it works on touch too
<jdstrand> mardy: fyi, I asked my questions in the bug
<alex-abreu> jdstrand, great
<brendand> no matter what i do i can't get my (old) nexus 7 to appear in adb devices
<brendand> i've unset MTP, restarted the adb server
<brendand> this is with 4.4
<ogra_> brendand, what does adb devices show ?
<brendand> ogra_, nothing basically
<brendand> ogra_, neither fastboot devices
<ogra_> did you try another cable/port/hub
<brendand> ogra_, both ports, but i'm out of options for cables
<brendand> ogra_, it's not the one that came with the nexus7
<ogra_> does the device still charge ? i heard from a lot of people that the usb port can break
<brendand> ogra_, actually there's a strong possibility it doesn't support data transfer at all
<brendand> ogra_, and it's just a glorified power lead...
<brendand> ogra_, it works great for charging
<ogra_> the cable you use you mean?
<brendand> ogra_, yeah
<ogra_> well, thats bad, but hardly something someone can help you with
<brendand> ogra_, nope. but i didn't even think about that possibility until now
<ogra_> :)
<brendand> ogra_, i thought their might be something else i was missing
<ogra_> well, it should show in dmesg when you plug it in ... and tell you its a Nexus 7 etc etc
<ogra_> if it doesnt, it is definitely a cable thing
<stgraber> ogra_: finally, https://www.stgraber.org/2014/02/11/your-own-ubuntu-touch-image-server/
<ogra_> whee !!!
<ogra_> shared :)
<stgraber> the https requirement is going to be a bit of a problem to some porters I suspect but it's on barry's todolist so should be addressed soonish
<ogra_> does it need a valid cert ?
<ogra_> or do self signed ones work
<stgraber> I believe ubuntu-download-manager only accepts valid certs
<Guest13181> how to identiy myself as bin?
<Guest13181> I mean it's my real name.
<Guest13181> is here another guy named bin?
<Beldar> .
<sil2100> tvoss: pong! (REALLY LATE PONG :D)
<ogra_> mterry, so mako looks okayish (tests have just all finished) ... maguro rather not so much (which is weird, i.e. i ran the unity8 tests here locally and it passed)
<mterry> ogra_, yah, I noticed.  Am reflashing to play with notes_app
<ogra_> popey did already
<ogra_> passed for him
<mterry> oh hmm
<ogra_> so i blame flayness
<SonikkuAmerica> ogra_: I've been testing the flo (4.4.2) image under MultiROM. Works just like a standard install with the experimental image.
<ogra_> *flaky
<mterry> ogra_, well, good...
<popey> i only ran it once
<popey> happy to run it again
<mterry> popey, I'll try on mine too
<ogra_> SonikkuAmerica, great to hear
<SonikkuAmerica> ogra_: Which includes WPA2 not working, I assume that's a known bug?
<mterry> ogra_, so what do you want to do as a next step?  Rerun tests?
<ogra_> Method, there is a bih unity8 and unity-mir landing planned before the next image ... i'm simply hoping the maguro failures are better with that (i assume they are related to timing)
 * popey runs again anyway
<ogra_> *there is a big ...
<SonikkuAmerica> I forgot to mention that Tassadar has an armel+flo system image to go with the rootfs-armhf.zip image.
<ogra_> tsk ... getting late, my typing gets worse
<ogra_> SonikkuAmerica, i think he mentioned that
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh good. I saw it on XDA, can't vouch for everything.
<Tassadar> SonikkuAmerica: wifi works for me on flo
<Tassadar> and it is WPA2
<Tassadar> (it's not the latest image though)
<mterry> ogra_, popey: notes_app tests worked for me too
<Tassadar> SonikkuAmerica: what exactly is not working for you? You can't see the network or can't log into it?
<popey> still running here mterry
<SonikkuAmerica> Tassadar: I can't log into it. (I have the image from XDA though, I doubt it's the latest)
<Tassadar> well, that's what I mean, I built the last one on 7th
<popey> mterry: all passed again here too
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah, it's the 20140207 image
<SonikkuAmerica> Tassadar: How did you get the WPA2 working?
<Tassadar> yeah, I don't think I have that one installed
<Tassadar> it just works out of the box
<Tassadar> lemme install the latest one
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh. Then I should just grab the latest armhf image from cdimage.u.c ?
<SonikkuAmerica> (and flash it with the armel+flo?_
<Tassadar> I'm using ogra_'s rootfs, the one linked in XDA thread
<ogra_> Tassadar, there is a fresher one
<Tassadar> (he updates it from time to time too, the link is still the same)
<Tassadar> oh?
<ogra_> oh, well, i switched rootstock-ng to use tarballs for the installer
<ogra_> no more zips
<ogra_> so there is a newer tarball
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-touch.rootfs-armhf.tar.gz
<Tassadar> yeah, but you'll switch to system-image with flo soon anyway, so I don't worry about that
<ogra_> well, yes, the tarball is the input for the rootstock-touch-install script that generates the system-image during install
<SonikkuAmerica> ogra_: So it went to tarballs. That means no more MultiROM (>)
<SonikkuAmerica> *(?)
<Tassadar> (and with hammerhead, you said the tools to build my own system-image server should be available soon too)
<Tassadar> ogra_: yeah, but I can't install .tar.gz to multirom, whereas I already support system-image builds
<ogra_> SonikkuAmerica, with my developer tool (rootstock-ng) since it doesnt require me to ship binary android blobs for the recovery zips
<SonikkuAmerica> ^
<ogra_> Tassadar, right, rootstock is probably not for you then (though i bet the system-image it generates works just fine for you
<SonikkuAmerica> ogra_: Right, so I have to sacrifice my dual-boot?
<ogra_> )
<Tassadar> SonikkuAmerica: just wait like a week, it should be at system-image.ubuntu.com by then and you'll be able to install it via MultiROM Mgr app, just like on mako or grouper
<ogra_> SonikkuAmerica, it assembles the system.img file on the device from a tarball and the android system image ... as long as Tassadar's multirom just uses the image from /data/system.img it will work exactly the same
<ogra_> just that the install logic lives on the PC and not in a recovery zip
<SonikkuAmerica> For the time being, would unpacking the tarball and compressing it in a .zip work in MultiROM?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> take a look here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/project-rootstock-ng/trunk/view/head:/rootstock-touch-install
<ogra_> you need to repack the android system.img and put it in the right place
<ogra_> and the tarball needs to end up in an img file
<ogra_> (prepare_ubuntu_system and convert_adnroid_img are the intresting functions)
<SonikkuAmerica> Ah. I'm probably better off waiting about a week then, like Tassadar said)
<ogra_> right, with luck there should be official images in a week
<SonikkuAmerica> And (if I chose) I could phablet-flash them too
<Tassadar> SonikkuAmerica: just installed the latest images and wifi works for me, it's normal WPA2/PSK network, dunno why yours doesn't
<Tassadar> (on 2.4GHz
<Tassadar> )
<SonikkuAmerica> One second...
<SonikkuAmerica> Tassadar: Hm. It works for you but not for me?
<Tassadar> weird, maybe there is something in dmesg/logcat
<SonikkuAmerica> Tassadar: In the terminal on the device
<Tassadar> or adb shell, that is better actualy
<rickspencer3> hey barry I just got that FileNotFound error while trying to update
<rickspencer3> barry, anything I should do to help debug, or just retry?
<barry> rickspencer3: wow, okay, first question: are you on a login protected network?
<rickspencer3> barry, I'm on 3G
<barry> mandel: btw, you might want to chime in^^
<rickspencer3> brb
<barry> rickspencer3: okay.  but no need to login before getting access to the interwebs, right?  when you get back, let's do a little debugging
<mandel> sure!
<barry> mandel: let's see what rickspencer3 comes back with.  can you think of any reason why 3g would be different than wifi?
<barry> rickspencer3: when you get back, the first thing I'd like is for you to adb shell into the device, and then run `system-image-cli --info`
<mandel> barry, AFAIK no, since I'm to high level to care
<mandel> barry, I did not see that file being requested in the logs from udm to be honest
<barry> mandel: what is "that file"?
<mandel> barry, blacklist.tar*
<mandel> barry, the one that popey reported in the bug
<rickspencer3> hey barry
<barry> mandel: interesting.  okay
 * rickspencer3 attaches usb cable
<mandel> rickspencer3, barry I'd like to, first check with the current stack, then use the udm present in this ppa:mandel/mandel (I suck at naming things...)
<rickspencer3> barry, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6916750/
<mandel> becuase it has more debugging etc..
<barry> rickspencer3: cool.  give me a few minutes.  i can't do 3g on my device, but i want to set up my tablet in as similar as possible.
<rickspencer3> sure
<rickspencer3> barry, I'll just start on something else, ping me when you're ready
<barry> rickspencer3: cool.  i'm just going to run a few tests here then will ping you
 * rickspencer3 nods
<a_muva__> trying to upgrade to 174, I get error 'FileNotFoundError:/var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz'
<rickspencer3> hi a_muva__
<a_muva__> hi
<rickspencer3> fwiw, barry is currently setting up a testing environment and I have my phone standing by to help him debug
<rickspencer3> ;)
<rickspencer3> a_muva__, this starting showing up for folks a couple of days ago
<rickspencer3> barry, would another debugger be helpful?
<mandel> a_muva__, unfortunately , you are not the first one to have this issues :-/
<mandel> a_muva__, rickspencer3 fyi bug number is => #1277589
<rickspencer3> bug #1277589
<ubot5> bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<a_muva__> ok, I'll wait
<barry> rickspencer3: okay, i now have my manta device on trusty r173.  at the adb shell can you run: system-image-cli --dry-run -v
<mandel> rickspencer3, can you add your syslog to that bug?
<rickspencer3> trying
<mandel> rickspencer3, I'd like to see what udm is doing and make sure that the file is indeed not requested as in popey case
<rickspencer3> mandel, sure, just give me a few minutes to finish this part with barry
<barry> mandel, rickspencer3 when i do the dry-run, i can see that the blacklist.tar.xz file is being requested
<barry> (as well as blacklist.tar.xz.asc)
 * mandel waits
<rickspencer3> barry, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6916844/
<mandel> barry, in popeys syslog I did a grep and could not find it.. weird
<barry> rickspencer3: beautiful.  that's what i get
<rickspencer3> barry, so is it that the server is not serving blacklist.tar.xz for some reason?
<rickspencer3> oh, nm
 * rickspencer3 actually reads
<mandel> rickspencer3, I'm here for any downloading issues :)
<barry> rickspencer3: now, if you md5sum /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz{,.asc} what do you get?
<rickspencer3> barry:
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# md5sum /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz{,.asc}
<rickspencer3> 573804b9f5149eaf253c8cbaa7ab1b83  /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> 0e2d696b633f4e65c6bbc1f6be1ad64a  /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz.asc
<barry> rickspencer3: so far so good.  please md5sum /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/*
<rickspencer3> barry,
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# md5sum /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/*
<rickspencer3> 1a4a5d8b79d01a77523c2d3dfba0304b  /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-master.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> d895b83c18976542e2bb658729903b7c  /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-master.tar.xz.asc
<rickspencer3> b89d60561ca2a866c5abc4e472663109  /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-signing.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> 9a4214fb6d6d9b27dc5df03b0f2569d1  /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-signing.tar.xz.asc
<barry> rickspencer3: beautiful.  again, so far so good
<barry> rickspencer3: let me try something locally first, for the next step
<rickspencer3> mandel, so, er ...
<rickspencer3> you want /var/log/syslog, right?
<mandel> rickspencer3, yes, 'cause udm is writing there it logs (until we are unblock by the landing issues)
<rickspencer3> mandel, so, errr
<barry> rickspencer3: okay, so i'm going to ask you to temporarily break reboots (i have a wishlist item to add a --no-reboot flag, but right now we don't have it).  don't worry, you'll be able to undo this change
<mandel> rickspencer3, although it seems that the downloader is doing the job correctly I prefer to double check
<rickspencer3> this is kinda embarassing, but I don't see syslog there
<mandel> ??
<rickspencer3> it's kinda confusing, does Touch keep it somewhere else?
<barry> rickspencer3: if you would, please edit /etc/system-image/client.ini.  search down for the [hooks] section and change the reboot option to: systemimage.noreboot.Reboot
<mandel> rickspencer3, focus on barry first, then I'll take your time :)
<rickspencer3> barry, uh
<mandel> rickspencer3, less context switch
<barry> (that will effectively disable reboot, but all preceding steps will succeed, including downloading all files)
<barry> rickspencer3: i want to just look at the file system right before the device reboots into recovery
<rickspencer3> ok, sorry , got distracted
<barry> don't worry it won't permanently break your system (fingers crossed ;)
<rickspencer3> barry, errr, this is my only phone
<rickspencer3> like, this is my phone
<MartijnVdS> I've just flashed my Galaxy Nexus with "phablet-flash ubuntu-system --channel trusty --bootstrap" -- but it seems to be stuck on the last(?) step
<rickspencer3> if I lose my data, I will be seriously bummed
<rickspencer3> barry, still want me to do it?
<MartijnVdS> The phone asks if I want to "Disable recovery flash"
<MartijnVdS> Should I pick that, or wait for phablet-flash to time out/finish by itself?
<barry> rickspencer3: ah okay.  i'm pretty sure it will be fine, but let's not take the chance.  why don't you just do `system-image-cli -v`.  that will do a verbose update to r174.  you will reboot, but if you get that far it means everything is working correctly
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ^ :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: looking at my logs, that's been asked numerous times here, and nobody (that I can see) ever gave a direct answer â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: great :)
<rickspencer3> barry, ok
<rickspencer3> barry, maybe a_muva__ will do it?
<barry> rickspencer3: the last thing you'll see is "preparing to reboot" followed by "rebooting" and then... you'll reboot into recovery.
<popey> MartijnVdS: yeah, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="Disable+recovery+flash"+%23ubuntu-touch+irc&oq="Disable+recovery+flash"+%23ubuntu-touch+irc
<cwayne> MartijnVdS, well, if you're not afraid to lose any data, just try one :)
<barry> assuming of course that you don't run into the problem ;)
<MartijnVdS> cwayne: the phone doesn't have any data I care about, trying now :)
<popey> I like that thinking!
<rickspencer3> barry, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6916888/
<popey> Try one, if it dies, try the other one!
<cwayne> popey, exactly!
<MartijnVdS> popey: exactly.. if it boots at all 8-)
<popey> \o/
<popey> pfffft
<cwayne> MartijnVdS, if i haven't bricked one of these things yet it's impossible to
<popey> You think we'd let our uses brick their phones!?
<popey> Unpossible!
<popey> ahem
<barry> rickspencer3: wow.  wow.  okay, you're getting the error
<rickspencer3> barry, is that hte same error?
<rickspencer3> looks different to my little brain ;)
<OrokuSaki> How can I stop unity8 from respawning? service ubuntu-touch-session USER=phablet is not working
<barry> rickspencer3: it is!  mine just rebooted and applied r174.  okay, so let's do a little more spelunking
<OrokuSaki> with the stop command =)
<MartijnVdS> hmm.. I'm on the device (adb shell), but the screen doesn't (and won't) turn on
<barry> rickspencer3: ls /var/lib/system-image
<barry> rickspencer3: then: ls /var/lib/system-image/keyrings
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# ls /var/lib/system-image
<rickspencer3> blacklist.tar.xz  blacklist.tar.xz.asc  keyrings  settings.db
<MartijnVdS> oh fixed it! Yay
<rickspencer3> barry,
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# ls /var/lib/system-image/keyrings
<rickspencer3> image-master.tar.xz      image-signing.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> image-master.tar.xz.asc  image-signing.tar.xz.asc
<OrokuSaki> ubuntu-touch-session is not a recognized service
<barry> rickspencer3: can you please md5sum all those .xz and xz.asc files and double check that they have the same checksums as above?
<rickspencer3> barry, I did this, but not sure what to compare it to:
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# md5sum /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz.asc
<rickspencer3> 0e2d696b633f4e65c6bbc1f6be1ad64a  /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz.asc
<barry> rickspencer3: md5sum /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz
<barry> (that .xz.asc file looks fine)
<rickspencer3> also ..
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# md5sum var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-*.asc
<rickspencer3> d895b83c18976542e2bb658729903b7c  var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-master.tar.xz.asc
<rickspencer3> 9a4214fb6d6d9b27dc5df03b0f2569d1  var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-signing.tar.xz.asc
<barry> rickspencer3: md5sum /var/lib/system-image/keyrings/*.xz
<rickspencer3> barry,
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# md5sum var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-*.xz
<rickspencer3> 1a4a5d8b79d01a77523c2d3dfba0304b  var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-master.tar.xz
<rickspencer3> b89d60561ca2a866c5abc4e472663109  var/lib/system-image/keyrings/image-signing.tar.xz
<barry> rickspencer3: two more checksums.  first:
<barry> md5sum /var/lib/system-image/*.xz
<rickspencer3> barry, 573804b9f5149eaf253c8cbaa7ab1b83  /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz
<barry> rickspencer3: beautiful.  now, last one:
<barry> md5sum /android/cache/recovery/*.xz
<popey> MartijnVdS: i have a handy script if you want to install all the apps in the store en-masse for playing/testing â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: I haven't even figured out how to get there yet
<popey> MartijnVdS: â»
<rickspencer3> barry, is that the right directory?
<rickspencer3> barry,
<rickspencer3> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# ls /android/cache/recovery/
<rickspencer3> last_log  log
<barry> rickspencer3: okay, that's not unexpected.  we're done for now.  i have more information, but not a root cause.  mandel you'll be interested to know that all the keyring checksums look good, which means it *has* to be the data file that got corrupted.  unfortunately, to keep things clean, s-i will remove cache partition files if they are corrupted so we can't post mortem it.  one of the debugging improvements i am going to make will be
<barry> to capture these checksums before the files get removed (and maybe a debugging option to preserve the files)
<rickspencer3> barry, should I retry the update?
<barry> rickspencer3: yes, please
<rickspencer3> barry, with the cli?
<barry> rickspencer3: system-image-cli -v
<mandel> barry, hm.. interesting, there is no reason why the data file would be corrupted and not the others.. and of course if we don't have the data file is going to be problematic atm to debug :-/
<rickspencer3> barry, looks like I got the same error again
<rickspencer3> barry, should I try it on wifi instead?
<mandel> barry, only thing I can think of is that I have a bug in udm where I do not follow 301s... could that be it
<barry> rickspencer3: rickspencer3 yes!  that will be a very interesting test
<mandel> rickspencer3, if it works on wifi I know who to blame... me
<mandel> well udm
<rickspencer3> "blame" is not quite the word ;)
<barry> mandel: remember the data files are humongous compared to the keyring files
<rickspencer3> we are writing software, software has bugs
<rickspencer3> we fix the bugs fast :)
<mandel> rickspencer3, yeah, no worries, I like blame 'cause i puts a little more pressure on me hehe
<rickspencer3> anyway, I htink other people were having the issue on wifi, looking at the lp bug report
<rickspencer3> mandel, if you need pressure, let me know, I can apply it ;)
<OrokuSaki> someone.. how can I shut down unity8 for good
<OrokuSaki> I know... I am stupid
<mandel> rickspencer3, they were, but they might have moved from 3g to wifi and I'm trying to be smart in udm and continued by changing the network
<OrokuSaki> I don;t know why service ubuntu-touch-session is not working
 * rickspencer3 nods
<mandel> rickspencer3, no more pressure thx hehehe
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> ok, fair enough
<rickspencer3> wow, taking a long time to download
<pmcgowan> barry, mandel it always reports a failure on the same file, why is that?
<barry> pmcgowan: i'm not sure it *is* the same file though.  rick's getting it on a data file, others in the original bug were getting it on the keyring files (ie. the keyring files that get downloaded)
<barry> SignatureErrors can happen in multiple places
<pmcgowan> I only saw reports about the blacklist file, which is what I got the other day
<pmcgowan> file not found on it
<rickspencer3> yeah, it seems like the error report in the GUI is just where the exception is caught
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, right, that's from the GUI
<rickspencer3> but if you do it from teh cli, you get a more specific error (I think)
<mandel> we should ping diego to provide a more complete error in the gui
<pmcgowan> yeah well it worked second time for me and popey
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, right, so that makes sense if the download was interupted and then worked
<rickspencer3> mandel, actually, I think GUI should ahve a *less* specific error
<rickspencer3> and a prompt to retry
<rickspencer3> but that there should be an apport hook to report the real error
<barry> rickspencer3: yes, popey's client.log sees it in a totally different place, but unfortunately one that doesn't capture the file with the failing signature.  but it's definitely not the same file you're seeing
<mandel> rickspencer3, nicer that missing "blah" definitely
<rickspencer3> I think we just want the users to try again
<barry> rickspencer3: i agree.  the error won't be very helpful to end users, and the logs are much more helpful to us devs
<rickspencer3> wow, still downloading
<barry> your wifi is slower than your 3g?  hmm, i wonder if 3g is giving you a truncated data file?
<rickspencer3> barry, my suspicion is that the download was bailing out before
<rickspencer3> alternatively, the download on wifi is hung up
<rickspencer3> barry, where are the files being downloaded to? (so I can see if they are growing or not)
<mandel> truncated data file seems more logical to be honest
<barry> rickspencer3: /android/cache/recovery
<barry> rickspencer3: (assuming you have a default /etc/system-image/client.ini file  -- look at [updater]cache_partition
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> rebooting
<barry> rickspencer3: well, that tells us you got the whole file :)
<barry> and the signature matched
<rickspencer3> barry,
<rickspencer3> [systemimage] Feb 11 15:26:00 2014 (967) all files available in /android/cache/recovery
<rickspencer3> I like that message ;)
<barry> rickspencer3: me too!  although it doesn't help us debug the 3g problem ;)
<rickspencer3> indeed
<barry> rickspencer3, mandel but now i am really suspicious of your 3g truncating the data files
<rickspencer3> barry, could someone please log a bug to do a nice job with the GUI?
<barry> rickspencer3: sure, i will
<rickspencer3> thanks barry
<mandel> barry, rickspencer3 possible issues, 3g is failing because is weak and we are getting a finished download when it should not, jumping from 3g to wifi makes the file to be corrupted
<mandel> but it smells more in the truncated side because it was a "fast" download
<barry> rickspencer3, mandel: hypothesis: rick's 3g is truncating a data file, resulting in a bad signature.  popey's and others on login-protected networks see some bogus keyring files.  in both cases, you'll get SignatureErrors, although, as the evidence indicates, in different code paths
<barry> mandel: yep.
<mandel> barry, I have added new signals to propagate log in errors to your side, should be in trunk asap
<rickspencer3> fwiw, I have frequently updated via 3g in the past
<mandel> barry, I have one landing slot and will as for a second one
<mandel> rickspencer3, how was the signal this time?
<nik90> jono: why do you tease us so much with all the new stuff coming to ubuntu touch like the dash, designs etc ? :P
<barry> mandel: sounds great.  i am going to work on a branch to log more information so we can post-mortem better when we get these signature errors.  of course, if the downloaded files are bogus/corrupted/truncated, there's not really anything else we can do than say "please try again"
 * mandel needs to find a nexus 4... 
<nik90> jono: (referring to your on-air session today)
<mandel> barry, yeah, we could catch it if we had the md5 for all files..
<barry> mandel: yep.  i now have bugs covering all the improvements for post-mortem
<mandel> barry, rickspencer3 I'm going to try and either ask someone in canonical to let me a nexus 4 or buy one in ebay to tests things things.. I have a feeling that the emulator is not good enough :-/
<barry> mandel: we should ask xnox to instrument all kinds of weird network behaviors into the emulator ;)
<mandel> barry, ok, I'll think carefully about improvements in my side to log this issues.. remember that disconnected message from tests.. could that be it
<jono> nik90, :-)
<mandel> barry, we disconnect for no known reason, I record that as a successful download and we get a truncated img
<barry> mandel: yep, and i'm still seeing some of those in my tox tests.  so my tests are no longer completing successfully even on a desktop
<mandel> barry, did you try the ppa I pointed to, is that with trunk?
<barry> mandel: yes, that makes me uncomfortable.  we really need to drill down on that
 * mandel wonders what changed in the stack..
<barry> mandel: oh, it's not.  what's the ppa again?
<mandel> barry, this has been working for "ever"
<nik90> jono: you mentioned that you would host a separate video to talk about the sprint stuff..When is that scheduled for? I do not see it in the on-air calendar.
<barry> mandel: i know!  december was the last upload for either package and yet we're only getting these bug reports since friday
<mandel> barry, worst ppa name EVER => ppa:mandel/mandel
<mandel> barry, if it happens to us is because we have long connections, and as soon as I release the qml plugin for udm we are probably going to see apps downloading files and will have more data
<barry> mandel: got it.  i need to take a short break, and then i will give my unittests a go with your ppa
<mandel> barry, yeah, I should call it a day at 21:35  :P
<mandel> long CET day hehehe
<barry> mandel: yes, please have a nice night! :) we'll touch base in the am
<barry> fsvo "am" :)
<mandel> lol
<mandel> barry, see you, have a great afternoon!
<barry> mandel: cheers!
<NovaX> Is there a way to download an image from the browser? So far i cant find a way.
<OrokuSaki> initctl stop unity8
<NovaX> Long press on the image only gives the option to copy image or open in new tab
<taiebot> Hi all i cannot update to 174 get the same as bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1277589 but after downloading nothing happens
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed]
<popey> taiebot: close system settings and try again?
<taiebot> Did it few times even rebooted.. but nothing
<taiebot> downloading for 3rd time..
<popey> barry: ^^ any suggestions?
<taiebot> By the way could if i could request to re-put the size of the image being downloaded that would be great.
<taiebot> 3rd time not lucky :P
<chrisccoulson> rsalveti, i figured out your issue with checking out oxide the other day. it turns out that despite us checking out a specific rev of depot_tools, the gclient script updated it anyway, and they changed something a few days ago that broke us
<chrisccoulson> i think it's all fixed now ;)
<rsalveti> chrisccoulson: got it, cool
<barry> taiebot: okay, let's ask the usual questions by now: are you on some kind of restricted network, i.e. 3g or login-protected?
<taiebot> I am on a 3g network as my main network
<barry> mandel: ^^
<barry> taiebot, mandel: another 3g failure
<rickspencer3> barry, is it possible that all we are seeing is that people are reporting the error rather than retrying?
<rickspencer3> and the issue has been extent since forever?
<rickspencer3> I recall in the past having to try several times to update
<rickspencer3> I always assumed it was that the server was busy or something
<barry> rickspencer3: it's possible, sure.  maybe
 * rickspencer3 wonders if he used "extend" properly
<barry> taiebot: the best suggestion i have right now is to switch to a reliable, unencumbered network, e.g. no login-protected wifi
<taiebot> Is there not a button missing recently the UI changed?
<barry> taiebot: and if you do, please let us know if that works or not
<rickspencer3> barry, maybe it would be helpful for him to keep retrying on 3g and see if it works eventually?
<taiebot> I have managed in the past to update with no problem on this 3g network
 * rickspencer3 notes the word is "extant"
<pmcgowan> rickspencer3, seems like something regressed early last week, suddenly everyone is having this problem, unless the error reporting was just added
<barry> rickspencer3, taiebot it probably is worth retrying.  taiebot the other question is how much you want to hack on things to help us debug it.  i.e. is this your main phone?
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, well, tbh, I remember there used to always be problems with needing to retry
<rickspencer3> but now we have the error message in the GUI
<rickspencer3> it used to just say something like "sorry, retry"
<taiebot> It is my main phone but not using it that much can backup my few photos
<pmcgowan> rickspencer3, yep
<rickspencer3> so I am worried that if we are chasing a regression, it may not be a regression
<pmcgowan> I didnt see anything added last week to system-iamge or downloads
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, just the nasty looking error message on the updater screen
<rickspencer3> the new update GUI, I mean
<pmcgowan> yep
<seb128> we don't have design on how to display error
<rickspencer3> it's good that we are taking the bug seriously, but I don't think we should assume it's a regression
<rickspencer3> seb128, the solution is obvious, never have errors1
<seb128> but feel free to ping mpt if you think displaying the actual error is user scary
<rickspencer3> !
<seb128> well, seems you are blame the new UI
<seb128> so just saying
<rickspencer3> seb128, not "blaming"
<rickspencer3> seb128, my current theory is that the bug was always there
<rickspencer3> wherever it is
<barry> pmcgowan: we have another interesting data point, re: regressions in the last week or so.  at the london sprint, we started noticing that the s-i test suite was failing in strange ways.  the localhost http/https server vending files to u-d-m during the tests was seeing peer resets, which means that u-d-m was exiting while still connected to the server.  we chalked it up to dbus issues, but never was able to figure it out in london.  now
<barry> i'm seeing those in my unittests.  so the other avenue we're exploring is that something changed in the qt networking stack that breaks u-d-m, causing it to exit/segfault in some cases.
<NovaX> When tying on the keyboard i keep clicking the items behind the keyboard is this a know bug or something new?
<rickspencer3> but the new UI motivates us to fix it
<seb128> you summary is basically "I use to not worry about error but now the error message makes me unsure"
<rickspencer3> seb128, right
<seb128> used*
<rickspencer3> that's one way to put it
<seb128> which might be a good thing or not ;-)
<rickspencer3> but, I think there is a real bug there
<seb128> right
<pmcgowan> barry, I can check but not aware of anything off hand
<rickspencer3> seb128, I think it is a good thing right now, we should fix the underlying bug (assuming I am correct, which is rarely the case)
<rickspencer3> but then we should go back to the old "sorry, please retry" imo ... but barry said he would log a bug to get the design looked at by the right people
<barry> rickspencer3: there definitely is a real bug here.  my next task is to try my unittests with mandel's ppa of u-d-m.  i still think u-d-m is the layer where things are going wrong
<rickspencer3> barry, tbh, that makes by far the most sense
<rickspencer3> from my tiny manager brain way of looking it at
<barry> seb128, rickspencer3: LP: #1279066 is that bug.  hopefully i captured the issue well enough
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1279066 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Reporting errors from system-image-dbus are not helpful to the end user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279066
<rickspencer3> anyway, I didn't want seb128 to feel singled out for "causing the bug"
<seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, I was unsure of what you meant since you mentioned it being an issue only since the Ui redesigne
<seb128> -e
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah
<seb128> which somewhat suggested the UI update created new issues
<barry> rickspencer3: yeah, i'm 99.9% certain it's not in the ui :)
<rickspencer3> it's an interesting thing, actually ... how the GUI has motivated us our behavior
<barry> (gotta leave a little room for surprises :)
<rickspencer3> barry, well, that's not what anyone thought, more "nobody cared until we updated the GUI, we shouldn't have updated the GUI"
<rickspencer3> but, I think it's good that we care now
<rickspencer3> where there's smoke, there's fire ;)
<taiebot> Ok 4th time download and fail..
<barry> yep!
<rickspencer3> there goes my theory
<rickspencer3> lol
<barry> taiebot: still on 3g?
<taiebot> yep
<barry> taiebot: can you try on wifi?
<taiebot> trying on wifi now
<barry> taiebot: an interesting observation (aside from whether it works or not) is whether the update is slower on wifi
<barry> taiebot: the implication being, it's slower because it's actually completing where as 3g exits out before the download is complete
<taiebot> need to reboot does not start the download as well
<barry> taiebot: sorry, i don't understand that last sentence
<taiebot> the spinner spins forever and the download do not start
<barry> taiebot: do you have adb shell access to this device?
<taiebot> yes
<barry> taiebot: if you have some time to dig in a little bit, let's cancel the download, adb shell in and use the cli tool to gather some data
<barry> taiebot: if not, that's cool.  a reboot + retry on wifi *should* give better results
<taiebot> ok
<taiebot> by the way i am not using 3g from the phone but 3g through a router..
<taiebot> so wifi..
<popey> fwiw, i never had to retry
<barry> i really suspect that we have various network configurations that cause u-d-m to report successful downloads when in fact, they are not successful.  mandel is working on detecting and exposing these so that s-i has a better chance to report what's going wrong.  anyway, that's the line of investigation we're currently taking.
<taiebot> barry: i am ready
<barry> taiebot: so, adb shell in and then:
<barry> system-image-cli --info
<barry> (just to get some basic information, please paste or pastebin the results)
<taiebot> http://pastebin.com/twCY8KqZ
<barry> taiebot: cool.  now, let's do a dry run test:
<barry> system-image-cli --dry-run -v
<taiebot> http://pastebin.com/sRKag0C8
<barry> taiebot: so far, you're looking a lot like rickspencer3's case.  now:
<barry> system-image-cli -v
<rickspencer3> seriously
<barry> taiebot: ^^ if that succeeds to reboot, then you are all good on wifi.  if that fails, please paste the results
<taiebot> http://pastebin.com/kDxCxYKg yeah success \o/ was on the same network btw. Was never on 3g through my phone but on 3g through wifi.
<barry> taiebot: i'll take your word for it.  pastebin hates my captcha responses ;)
<barry> taiebot: this is definitely in line with our previous observations.  glad we could get you updated and thanks for the data points!
<marfik> Does anyone know of an Ubuntu Touch ownCloud client in the works? If not I'm thinking of starting one.
<pmcgowan> marfik, not aware of any efforts, but you should review the app confinement rules as they will restrict what is possible
<pmcgowan> http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
<harris> when does the nexus 7 2013 get ubuntu touch is it 14.04 or 14.10
<marfik> thanks for the link, will have a look
<pmcgowan> harris, very soon, 14.04
<harris> is there a wiki yet
<pmcgowan> its being supported as one of the reference designs, no wiki page I am aware of
<gibbardish> anyone successfully installing ubuntu touch on older androids?
<marfik> want to give it a try but lacking hardware that's not needed on daily basis!
<gibbardish> which device do you have?
<marfik> The only thing I might be temped to sacrifice atm the moment is a htc desire though i think it might prove a difficult task!
<marfik> Have you managed to UT going on anything?
<gibbardish> hmm, true. i've got a Incredible 2--obvious hardware limitations.
<marfik> lol
<marfik> have you seen the latest youtube vid from ubuntu devel? looks soo nice
<gibbardish> i haven't run it yet; i'm trying to work through this workstation program(?)--there has to be a workaround for me to get it on my device
<gibbardish> i saw one a few months ago--looked great. just recently saw on the ubuntu website about releasing touch
<marfik> http://youtu.be/GgbxaUjY2Ag
<vitimiti> hi, I'm having this error: "Could not determine application identifier. HUD will not work properly." following the example from the currency converter y the ubuntu web, and the buttons and such collide with the title. How can I fix this?
<gibbardish> sorry, not familiar with that error
<vitimiti> wait, it gives more: https://gist.github.com/vitimiti/8945966
<gibbardish> the ubuntu touch article says the device needs to be in workstation so as to be able to accept a host key
<marfik> oh right ok, I think I have some reading to do :-)
<gibbardish> i might be sol with this device; i have another, but it needs a screen replacement
<gibbardish> i'd like to figure out how to get workstation on my device
<gibbardish> i tried downloading the zip and installing it through the ROM manager
<gibbardish> but the installation aborted
<mandel> barry, ok, I'll run the tests in my morning to see what is going on
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-12
<neutronxxx> guts
<neutronxxx> guys
<neutronxxx> i need help to installing ubuntu touch o my galaxy s2
<neutronxxx> ?
<dholbach> good morning
<SoneriC> Hello there
<SoneriC> is anyone there?
<stamas01> HI all. I am planning to buy a lenovo k900 and I wanna use ubuntu touch on it. I have experience with c and c++ and very basic knowledge in linux kernel. I know that it would take a lonk time but I also know that it is going to be fun. I just wanted to ask here the following: Is there anything with this device so it makes almost immpossible the porting. Is there anybody here who could help me if I stuck?
<popey> stamas01: thats an x86 phone right?
<stamas01> yes
<popey> i dont think we've worked on x86 builds yet
<stamas01> so dont even try it right?
<ogra_> the prob on x86 is that Qt is linked hard against GL ... not GLES
<stamas01> so does it worth a try or dont even try it?
<ogra_> dont try it until there are x86 GLES packages
<ogra_> (it is being worked on)
<ogra_> you can indeed start with porting the android bits, that is time consuming enough to keep you busy until the Qt packages are there
<stamas01> Ok. So it worth a try. And can u guy help me if i'am a bit stuck?
<ogra_> sure, the whole channel can :)
<stamas01> great. Thanks for the help.
<ogra_> janimo, ^^^^
 * janimo reads scrollback
<ogra_> just thought you would be intrested
<davmor2> Morning all
<pitti> hey sergiusens, good morning
<pitti> sergiusens: thanks for landing platform-api!
<pitti> sergiusens: can you please land the corresponding fix for qtubuntu-sensors as well? similarly easy, tested on x86 and the device, has automatic tests, etc.
<pitti> https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/qtubuntu-sensors/crash-without-hw/+merge/203931
<sergiusens> pitti, sure
<sergiusens> np
<fprimex> hi all. I have the opportunity to get a LG G2 for nothing on AT&T. I see someone started a page on this phone for Sprint.
<fprimex> It does not look like the bootloader is unlockable, however root access and rom loading is possible. is this enough to load up and work on an Ubuntu Touch port for the G2?
<belfouf> hello everybody
<belfouf> I have a noob question about Ubuntu Touch on Galaxy Nexus installation
<belfouf> is it possible to flash a img directly from a recovery (rooted phone)
<belfouf> hello everybody  I have a noob question about Ubuntu Touch on Galaxy Nexus installation                          is it possible to flash a img directly from a recovery (rooted phone) ?
<mandel> barry, 3 runs of the system-image test and all correct :-/
<mandel> barry, I'm going to use an armhf chroot to try and reproduce the issue
<bfiller> kenvandine: verifed content-hub works with gallery and camera as click.
<barry> mandel: look at the test output - do you see any peer disconnects?  also, was this with your ppa?
<bfiller> kenvandine: just running autopilot for those apps, then I also have to do an MR for the shell to not reference the deb packages, then should be ready for an release
<mandel> barry, with my ppa and I just saw one single disconnect but I forgot to fwd udm logs to stderr (I was stupid setting a flag)
<kenvandine> bfiller, great
<mandel> barry, rerunning several times
<barry> mandel: wow, ok.  i guess that's good news.  i am going to try to reproduce here, but i have some ideas on how to capture more information in disconnects.  also, more information when signature errors occur.
<mandel> barry, ok, I've also decide to do a double check on errors when the request is finished, I expected the finished signal to be emitted without errors but I don't trust qnetwork too much right now
<mandel> barry, will let you know if I find anything
<barry> mandel: that sounds good.  fwiw, where i think the disconnects really hurt is when no finished/canceled/error signal is sent before shutdown.  in those cases my dbus reactor never sees a signal to stop reacting, and that's when we get the intermittent timeouts
<barry> mandel: so, one thing that would be very helpful to log is all the emitted signals.  iirc, udm logs signal emits for single downloads, but not in all cases for group downloads (i remember seeing at least one place where group download emitted a finish, but didn't also log in that case)
<mandel> barry, it might be that one weird error is being found on the finish signal emittion from qt and then we get udm in a weird state and then everything goes downhil from there
<mandel> barry, I'll improve the logging there, atm I'm in full debug trace mode
<barry> mandel: fantastic, thanks.  let me know if you upload anything new to the ppa
<kenvandine> bfiller, i guess landing that won't be speedy... since it'll include unity8
<Haxix> buenas
<Haxix> solo una pregunta
<Haxix> tengo un nokia c7-00
<Haxix> y quisiera saber si es posible instalar el nuevo sos de linux en el
<mandel> barry, I managed to get an error, does tox redirect stderr anywhere?
<barry> mandel: stderr (of the foreground test process) should flow through to the console.  as for where stderr of the udm process goes, good question ;)  that's why log files rule
<mandel> barry, and.. is the udm process that you run writing to the normal udm logs? /var/log/ubuntu-downalod-manager (in my ppa) for example?
<barry> mandel: it should, afaik.  i mean, i start up udm via dbus activation on a system bus -- just not the real system bus, a private one.  the main difference between the tests and real world is that it's started under the uid of the user, not uid 0.  iirc that changes where udm logs go (i.e. they end up in ~/.cache/ubuntu-download-manager
<mardy> tedg: hi! Do you have some time to explain me what the exec-tool does in https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/upstart-app-launch/untrusted-helper/+merge/202703 ?
<mandel> barry, ok, I think we should fix that, I'm going to make changes in udm so that you can tell it a log path that way if we have system-image tests failing we can see JUST the logs for the test
<tedg> mardy, Sure, mostly it expands from a desktop file exec line to something that can be passed to execvp()
<mandel> barry, I'll make the changes in system-image to use a diff path per test
<tedg> mardy, There are a couple little things like special handling for surface flinger, but that'll go away.
<barry> mandel: that would ROCK
<tedg> mardy, Oh, it also sets the environment up for things like architecture dependent paths.
<mardy> tedg: I'm looking at the upstart job; I'm not an upstart expert, but I don't see how you are using the result from exec-tool
<tedg> mardy, There is no result, it actually exec's the application.
<tedg> mardy, Oh, sorry, exec-tool?
<mardy> tedg: yep; I'm looking at upstart-jobs/untrusted-helper.conf.in
<tedg> mardy, What needs to happen is that it sets Upstart environment variables.  Those then get attached to the instance, and pulled in by exec-line-exec
<tedg> mardy, So exec-line-exec just calls getenv
<tedg> mardy, And that's how it uses the values that exec-tool sets.
<mardy> tedg: I think I'm slowly getting it: so exec-line-exec will read the APP_EXEC variable, and execute the command line written in there?
<tedg> mardy, Correct, and the format of that environment variable can be anything you put into a dekstop file Exec line.  So you could put a "%u" and then it'll insert the values from APP_URIS.
<mardy> tedg: coool
<mardy> tedg: thanks a lot, this looks really useful! Any idea when it will be available in the archives?
<tedg> mardy, I wish I knew.  I have two silos to land for UAL, the first (still unallocated) is for the GIR bindings, and then untrusted helpers is the next.
<tedg> mardy, I'm hoping late this week or early next, but that is probably a little optimistic.
<mardy> tedg: ok, thanks
<mandel> barry, in the tests I'm getting a 404.. you do test for a 404, is that correct? (just wondering if that is the case)
<barry> mandel: yes, i have at least one test that explicitly tests for 404 situation
<barry> mandel: test_download_404
<mandel> barry, so, looking at the trace logs from udm, I'm getting 404 (expected) SslHandshakeFailedError(expected) and ConnectionRefusedError
<mandel> barry, the connection refuse for example is for https://localhost:8943/channels_01.json
<barry> mandel: many of those are valid tests, looking for situations like trying to connect contra http/https, 404s, etc.  connection refused, let me check - i might have a test that tries to download when the server is offline
<mandel> barry, ok, issue is that I get lots of logs and I cannot relate them to the tests
<mandel> barry, so I'm going to work on that log file per test right now to be able to debug this
<barry> mandel: remember us talking about adding a client side tag to the group download?  that's exactly why i wanted that.  i would add the tag for the test name, that way we could more easily correlate what's happening in the s-i tests with the udm log output
<barry> mandel: or that.  either way.  we need to be able to match up si test suite with udm logs, yeah
<mandel> barry, yes, I was working on that and got distracted by more urgent bugs, sorry
<barry> mandel: no worries ;)
<mandel> barry, I think tags == useful for production, one file per test == useful for testing and debugging
<mandel> barry, so do in the log option now before something explodes and they need me to fix it :)
<barry> mandel: +1
<barry> mandel: so that would be a cli switch to u-d-m?
<mandel> barry, yes, don't worry I'll do an mp for system-image and for udm with the switch
<barry> mandel: cool
<Adrian472> Hi, is there a chance to port Ubuntu Touch with x86 machine?
<Adrian472> Can I port Ubuntu Touch for HTC with x86 machine?
<Adrian472> Anyone?
<Adrian472> Can I port Ubuntu Touch (for HTC) with x86 PC?
<labsin> Adrian472, Yes you can. You can also build Ubuntu touch for supported devices on x86. The Ubuntu system is the same for all devices. You mostly need changes in the Android part, the kernel.
<labsin> But it isn't easy
<Adrian472> Thanks labsin, I answered cause i read this: "For development you can run any 64-bit Desktop version of Ubuntu between 12.04 LTS and 13.10. "
<labsin> Adrian472, Ow. I don't really know.
<labsin> Adrian472, you could try building an existing port first
<Adrian472> Ok, I will try
<labsin> all, I recently saw an add for the Asus PADFONE 2. Wouldn't this be a wonderful device for running Ubuntu touch? It's a dockable phone (turning it into a tablet)
<labsin> But is doesn't have a custom rom, not even a compiled kernel. and it's on Android 4.1, so would be a long shot.
<mardy> tedg: hi again! Your scripts to generate the test plan from bzr, do they remove attachments from the wiki, if there are any?
<tedg> mardy, I don't think so.  I've not played with attachments using editmoin.
<mardy> tedg: OK, I'll try
<tedg> mardy, I think that pitti might know more about what editmoin does with attachments
<pitti> I'm afraid I never tried that
<pitti> i. e. uploading attachments with editmoin
<pitti> (I wasn't even aware that it could do that)
<tedg> Oh, no mardy, if pitti's never tried it you're basically sailing off the edge of the Earth ;-)
<mardy> pitti: actually, I would upload the attachment manually; I just wonder if editmoin will leave them there, when updating the page
<pitti> mardy: sure, why wouldn't it?
<mardy> pitti: who knows :-)
<Adrian472> labsin, i'm not sure its real but: http://www.apkmania-co.in/2013/10/upgradeupdate-asus-padfone-2-to-44.html
<labsin> Adrian472, fake
<Adrian472> labisn, heh now i see..
<Adrian472> labsin*
<Adrian472> I'm on Debian now, and i don't won't install Ubuntu only for try it.. and to seen it don't work
<Adrian472> If anyone ported Ubuntu Touch with x86 PC I will be grateful for info
<barry> mandel: yeah, i'm still seeing test failures caused by the connection resets.  i'm first going to work on sigerror logging improvements, then see if i can find a way to capture more details on those connection resets, to hopefully allow us to better debug them
<mandel> barry, ok, I'm going to look at the diff of that package
<kenvandine> bfiller, alex-abreu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6920913/
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, this is your API proposal document ? :)
<kenvandine> that's an updated qml example for imports
<alex-abreu> yeah
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, the start of it
<kenvandine> i basically rewrote the example importer using an API i thought made sense
<kenvandine> from that we can try to make a real qml api that can make this real :)
<kenvandine> with this, everything except the actual transfer can be declarative
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, following the qml way ... shouldnt you have a ContentPeerModel instead of 2 separate component for ContentPeer & Peers the Peers being a list<> ?
<alex-abreu> a model w/ some filtering bits
<kenvandine> that's what ContentPeers is
<bfiller> kenvandine: is this in sync with alex-abreu proposed javascript api?
<alex-abreu> ok you might to rename that
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> bfiller, that's why we're talking about it.. .his javascript API can't be as declarative as QML
<alex-abreu> bfiller, not really ... yet
<kenvandine> bfiller,  i think this is a much more logical way to use it from QML
<kenvandine> and is rather far from what the qml bindings do right now
<bfiller> alex-abreu, kenvandine : yup makes sense, glad you guys are talking :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, we still need someone to work on the bindings :)
<kenvandine> hint hint :)
<bfiller> kenvandine: got someone starting next week, it's on his list :)
<alex-abreu> communication communication communication !
<kenvandine> i like to start by writing a fictional app to use the API before creating the API
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, do you really need an individual contentPeer ?
<alex-abreu> seems like overcomplication
<kenvandine> yes...
<kenvandine> i think most apps won't use the model
<kenvandine> they'll declare the Peer and then request content from it
<kenvandine> notice in this example there is no functions called on ContentHub
<kenvandine> it's called on the ContentPeer
<alex-abreu> yup
<alex-abreu> noticed
<kenvandine> ContentPeer { id: peer, handler: ContentType.Source, type: ContentType.Pictures} peer.request();
<kenvandine> would request a transfer from the default peer for pictures
<kenvandine> s/default peer/default source/
<kenvandine> bfiller, something else that occurred to me, for Share I don't think we should have a default
<kenvandine> because sharing is less about what to do with a content type, but about how you're sharing it
<alex-abreu> the contentimport & contenttransfer (still being around) seems like a bit of (possibly necessary) compilcation to me atm
<kenvandine> oh, actually it wouldn't be peer.request()
<kenvandine> it would be on the ContentImport object
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, maybe... but it gives us a way to setup the import
<kenvandine> without calling a bunch of functions on it :)
<kenvandine> like setStore
<kenvandine> etc
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, I mean
<alex-abreu> or maybe the name is wrong
<kenvandine> probably :)
<kenvandine> i didn't want to call it ContentTransfer
<alex-abreu> thinking about the export case
<alex-abreu> yeah
<kenvandine> because that already exists
<alex-abreu> yeah but contetImport is very specific to a use case
<kenvandine> true... and we specify the handler on the peer
<alex-abreu> what would we have for the export case?
<kenvandine> so maybe that can be merged with ContentPeer
<kenvandine> i was thinking ContentExport
<alex-abreu> bc we need the same bit of setup info
<kenvandine> but it is redundant
<alex-abreu> a way to specify the store etc.
<alex-abreu> indeed
<alex-abreu> that's what I think too
<kenvandine> however, for an export you need to care about different states than you do for import
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, well you might want to specify the store etc. and you might want to have maybe some basic infos about the peer
<alex-abreu> which is what contentimport does
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, so maybe ContentPeer can have a request method that takes an optional arg for store?
<kenvandine> ContentPeer.request(myStore);
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, does the transfer need to be visible ? I mean would a request() from ever not be followed by a start() ?
<kenvandine> i guess not, since we don't need to tweak the transfer
<kenvandine> but in the export and share case
<kenvandine> they will be followed with a charge
<kenvandine> or rather setting transfer.items
<alex-abreu> right ... just to sync up the request vs the actuall 'ready' state
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, whats the 'share case' ?
<kenvandine> like you want to share an image on facebook
<kenvandine> etc
<kenvandine> very similar to an export
<kenvandine> but the selection of peers needs to be different
<kenvandine> from the hub POV, the share will be nearly identical to export
<kenvandine> but you'll be selecting a peer registered with a share handler
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, you could do it straight from the content hub? no thrid part 'fecebook' client app involved?
<kenvandine> no, another app
<alex-abreu> ok
<kenvandine> the hub won't provide anything specific
<kenvandine> it's just a broker to move content around
<kenvandine> :)
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, would it still fall into the category of an export (to facebook ... app) ?
<alex-abreu> yeah
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, no, because perhaps an app can do both share and import
<kenvandine> so as an exporter you need to be able to specify which action
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, well ... from the perspective of a facebook app ... they seem to be quite similar (being the exporter)
<kenvandine> the user journey is different though
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, another example is the gmail webapp as a share handler
<kenvandine> attaching the content to a new mail
<alex-abreu> yeah ...
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, you'll have fun with that :)
<alex-abreu> yes, but it'll be nice (in a way)
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, i could just add the store property to the ContentPeer, instead of passing it as an optional arg to request()
 * kenvandine isn't a fan of optional args in qml :)
<alex-abreu> yeah
<kenvandine> then when operating on a peer in the model, picSource.store = whatever
<kenvandine> the request()
<kenvandine> tvoss, alex-abreu realized that the ContentStore based on ContentScope isn't really usable, because the only scope that will work is the user::app scope
<kenvandine> sorry... the app scope, not the user or system
<kenvandine> tvoss, the confined app won't have access to those
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6921102/
<asac> bzoltan1: #ubuntu-ci-eng ... sil and robru and ogra know how to run APs
<asac> and popey and many otheres
<asac> (in a way that doesnt detour you hunting down issues that we dont care right now about)
<bzoltan1> asac: I know how to run APs
<ogra_> asac, we all just follow the wiki instructions :)
<asac> ogra_: that doesnt work for him
<jose> hey guys, my phone is not updating, no idea why, it says something about invalid keyrings I think
<ogra_> it does for all others
<asac> ogra_: well, you need to reboot in between if you run many APs, right?
<asac> ogra_: otherwise you get flakiness that we dont have under control.
<asac> is that in the wiki?
<asac> those things
<asac> bzoltan1: you told me you get random results, while we know how to not get random results
<asac> i dont question that you know the general story, jsut the fine details
<ogra_> right, and you should only test on a fresh install, but thats something i would assume a tester to do anyway
<ogra_> (to not taint his results)
<asac> ogra_: those things are not on the wiki?
<ogra_> i dont think so
<asac> see
<asac> so ...
<asac> help him
<asac> and fix the wiki
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Testing
<bzoltan1> ogra_: please follow the instructions step by step and execute this script http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6921247/ twice in a row
<Nick6743> Hello there I am using a PageStack in my main.qml it has many pages to push.  One of these pages is called "Connections"  this has no title for it in the Page{}  But this page has 2 other pages that need to be  in it (Channels,UserPage).  But when loading "Connections"  the Tiltle for Channels shows up. How can I fix this ?
<bzoltan1> ogra_: you will see what i see, random failures
<asac> sil2100: ^^
<asac> please help him as well
<Nick6743> I have tried to add it so that there is no title untill the page has been loaded via pageStack but this still does not work
<ogra_> bzoltan1, right, as asac said, you should reboot after each test, seems ot be missing on the wiki
<asac> bzoltan1: so do that and if it helps, update the wiki - plain and simple :)
<bzoltan1> ogra_: rebooting between tests was not on the instructions
<asac> thx
<ogra_> bzoltan1, and you need to do this on a freshly installed device that only has your changes added
<ogra_> bzoltan1, yes, apparently a flaw in the wiki
<bzoltan1> ogra_: :) It is fine ... but please do not tell that "we all just follow the wiki instructions "
<ogra_> bzoltan1, i always copy paste the instructions :) so i do ... i just never noticed that there is no mentioning of rebooting
<asac> thats why its so great to train fresh blood
<asac> they see those gaps in docs
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  :)
<asac> and can just fix it
<ogra_> bzoltan1, btw, did you read the "IMPORTANT NOTE" bit tooo ?
<Nick6743> brb rebooting
<ogra_> wrt running your script twice ...
<ogra_> you need to remove the ~autopilot dir
<bzoltan1> ogra_: I am not running click package tests ... so I have not read that part
<asac> bzoltan1: anyway, please autojoin #ubuntu-ci-eng ... thats the standard place where everything around landing and testing landings gets done
<ogra_> yeah
<popey> jose: re-run the update
<jose> I'll try again (done it x3 by now)
<ogra_> asac, so asking around it appears thet rebooting isnt actually required ... (just because i do it doesnt mean that everyone does)
<ogra_> bzoltan1, did you manually unlock the device before starting testing
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  yes, and I use powerd-cli display on too
<ogra_> (it doesnt happen automatically)
<bzoltan1> ogra_: that was actually one round waste to figure out
<ogra_> heh, yeah, easy to forget
<ogra_> bzoltan1, so i wonder why yours dont pass then ... how did you install the image ?
<ogra_> (should be "phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b --channel trusty-proposed")
<bzoltan1> ogra_: to correct yet again :) It is not that my tests do not pass ... my tests do pass ... on the stock image the very basic set of app tests just malfunction in various style
<ogra_> (then make it writable, add your PPA and install your package)
<ogra_> bzoltan1, well, they didnt do for others today ... and we have manual tests every morning on mako and maguro (to verify failures on the dashboard etc)
<ogra_> so there must be a difference of what you and i.e. popey or davmor2 do
<bzoltan1> ogra_: just to verify an other thing -> the instruction says "sudo phablet-flash ubuntu-system" that brings saucy not trusty
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  like `phablet-flash ubuntu-system -b --channel trusty-proposed` does
<popey> shouldn't need sudo either
<ogra_> yeah, no sudo here
<ogra_> phablet-flash ubuntu-system without options is for your mom :)
<ogra_> and other endusers
<ogra_> nothing any dev uses ;)
<ogra_> definitely a flaw in the wiki
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  I will tell her :) But that is what the instructions say ... I know I am an ass :) but each round I figured out these issues costed me about 1.5 hours ... that is how long it takes to run a dozen of AP tests
<ogra_> yes, i see that
<ogra_> it also says "install the latest green image"
<ogra_> which requires you to read the help page of phablet-flash to actually fin out how to set the right channel for this green image from the dashboard (and possibly the version if you use one)
<bzoltan1> ogra_:  Haha :) I just saw my mom come online :)
<ogra_> lol
<bzoltan1> I think she needs a stable phablet image :)
<asac> bzoltan1: on the 1.5h - you should have asked here or rather in #ubuntu-ci-eng for help, rather than figuring on your own :)
<asac> many nice people around :)
<bzoltan1> asac: I know it is hard to believe :D but I was not watching the terminal and drinking tea during the  tests
<ogra_> bzoltan1, i added a note that you need to verify channel and system number for the phablet-flash
<bzoltan1> ogra_: thanks
<ogra_> sigh, why is out wiki parsing broken ... cant do bold and it doesnt do automatic linebraks
<pmcgowan> stgraber, is there an easy way to test if the image server is up and working?
<stgraber> pmcgowan: the public server? if so, manually checking http://system-image.ubuntu.com/ should be enough
<pmcgowan> ok
<pmcgowan> barry, the tablet here will not complete an update now, just hangs
<pmcgowan> this one exhibited the file not found failure last time I updated
<jose> actually, when updating I get 'systemimage.gpg.SignatureError: /android/cache/recovery/ubuntu-[string]...'
<ogra_> pmcgowan, usually it works on the next try
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I have tried a bunch of times, settings and command line
<ogra_> oh my
<pmcgowan> oh it crapped out again
<ogra_> well, mandel and barry are up to their ears in the code to find the cause
<pmcgowan> hmm now download-manager is not even starting
<mandel> pmcgowan, it looks like an update might have broken the network code, we are adding debug stuff as crazy
<mandel> pmcgowan, wait, the download-manager?? that is weird
<pmcgowan> mandel, wish I could help
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6921523/
<pmcgowan> I am running top
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, that's the exporter/share case
<mandel> pmcgowan, ok, and if you call it directly, what happens
<mandel> pmcgowan, with ubuntu-download-manager (it can be ran in the user session)
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, note that doesn't handling the picking case, where an importing app requests content from it
<pmcgowan> mandel, seems to start fine
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, this would initiate the export as a "Open with" or a Share
<pmcgowan> the first time I did update, it spun until reporting the file not  found error, and u-d-m was shown running
<mandel> pmcgowan, well, udm is dbus activated, so it should be starting without issues
<pmcgowan> now it does not show up
<pmcgowan> I saw s-s-dbus crash earlier
<mandel> pmcgowan, oh, that is interesting
<pmcgowan> mandel, yep got one again
<pmcgowan> system-image-dbus crash file
<mandel> pmcgowan, can you add that to the following bug #1277589
<ubot5> bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<pmcgowan> yep
<mandel> pmcgowan, we can see some disconnects in the tests of the system image update and we thing could be the root of this, we have a strong feeling that something lower in the stack changed and broke.. so the more info the better
 * mandel is browsing qnetwork commit history
<pmcgowan> mandel, I saw we got new versions of qt5.0.2 and not sure why
<mandel> pmcgowan, correct, and we have an impression that this started in 166 and we got a new qt then, right now my plan is to find a consistent way to make it crash (it is not atm) and then look at qt
<pmcgowan> mandel, ok uploaded the crash file to the bug
<mandel> pmcgowan, awesome, thx
<ogra_> bah
<ogra_> my upgrade hangs too
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6921692/
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, that includes creating an export or share as well as handling pickMode for providing content to an importer
<kenvandine> bfiller_afk, ^^
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, i'm pretty happy with how this would work for an app developer, let me know what you think
<dkessel> I am trying to find instructions on installing ubuntu touch on the nexus 7 (2013). I have read that this will be one of the supported devices in the future.
<dkessel> it is not on the supported devices page - can anybody point me to the right official page?
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, yup
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, there is a missing piece, the popover doesn't provide a way to choose from a list of peers, but i don't think that adds any complications to the api
<kenvandine> just triggering those would push a new page or new sheet
<kenvandine> showing the list of peers
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, I'll have a look at it
<Adrian47> Anyone ported Ubuntu Touch usign 32bit PC?
<mterry> ogra_, I've got that FileNotFoundError issue when trying to update over the air
<mterry> ogra_, last email from you on that thread indicated we still didn't know why it happened
<mterry> ogra_, any info I can help provide?
<ogra_> mterry, mandel and barry are working on it ... it smells a bit like the libqt5networking update could be involved
<ogra_> bug #1277589
<ubot5> bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<barry> yep, it will be very interesting to find the root cause
<ogra_> my mako seems to be in the same state as pmcgowan's manta now
<pmcgowan> yeah this manta seems wedged now
<rickspencer3> ogra_, popey so, a couple of concerning messages regarding the latest image on the mailing list
<rickspencer3> should I be concerned?
<ogra_> rickspencer3, i wish i could tell you, i cant upgrade
<ogra_> it definitely worked fine for the smoke testers today
<pmcgowan> my mako is fine on 176
<mterry> rickspencer3, I have two makos, one works fine with latest image, the other can't update
<rickspencer3> mterry, right, so 2 people reported updating, but after the update having serious problems
<ogra_> my maguro is fine on 176 ... my mako is stuck with the upgrader error
<mterry> yup, I saw
<popey> rickspencer3:specifically?
<ogra_> popey, see the ML
<popey> oh i see
<popey> replies to didrocks
<dkessel> nvm - balloons helped me out with the info
<myNameIsWho> dkessel,  I use multirom  there are tutorials on the net (xda-developer) .  they have a app click click don hoe this help
<popey> I didn't see that with my mako
<ogra_> rickspencer3, sitting at the google screen can happen if they had a .crash file and whoopsie/apport kick in, but that usually only delays the boot
<myNameIsWho> done *  hope *
<popey> however I *am* getting bug 1277589 again on my other nexus 4
<ubot5> bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<mterry> barry, looks like you have all the info you need in that bug report.  (in my case, I'm on a home wifi network)  What's the best workaround to get past it?
<ogra_> rickspencer3, definitely an issue we still need to work on, but usually not critical
<mterry> barry, well, not all the info you need, but nothing needed from my device rather
<popey> mterry: retry
<davmor2> Who is responsible for the demo at the beginning of a fresh install?
<pmcgowan> ogra_, my update is working now
<ogra_> rickspencer3, the guy saying he sees flashing didnt specify his device ... grouper might flash, not sure, we dont test it anymore
<pmcgowan> magic
<mterry> davmor2, me I guess
<popey> davmor2: its part of unity, katie designed it, why?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, did you reboot or just retry ?
<barry> mterry: retry, but probably after a 10m wait, or kill system-image-dbus.  you can also try system-image-cli
<barry> if you adb shell in
<mterry> barry, I rebooted several times.  Didn't seem to help
<popey> My update worked by killing system settings and restarting it
<popey> without restarting phone
<ogra_> didnt work for me
<pmcgowan> ogra_, rebooted then tried
<balloons> popey, has wifi come back fro you yet in the images?
<pmcgowan> although I had done that before twice
<davmor2> mterry, popey: on the n10 there is the issue of if you drag from the top anywhere that isn't the indicators nothing happens
<popey> balloons: it never went away
<ogra_> pmcgowan, ah, i have done that like 10 times already ... you must be a lucky chap :)
<popey> davmor2: interesting, i have no nexus 10/7
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I just saw that, quick drag down showed empty on network
<barry> mterry: gosh i would love to have access to a device exhibiting these problems
 * balloons notes popey is lucky
<mterry> barry, after the first time I see the bug, if I close settings and retry without rebooting, it gets stuck "Checking for updates..." and never stops checking
<ogra_> yeah
<pmcgowan> mterry, barry same here, I uploaded a crash file to the bug
<pmcgowan> system-image-dbus crashed twice here
<pmcgowan> then you get the spinny
<ogra_> mterry, the system-image-dbus process needs to time out first
<barry> or you can kill it from the shell
<barry> now, the question is, if killing it and restarting it still exhibits the same problem, then that is something interesting to further debug
<davmor2> pmcgowan: when you open the Setting app does it say there is an update available? If so if you click on that what happens?
<barry> oh, *and* that should be separate from running system-image-cli from the shell
<pmcgowan> davmor2, yes, and it either reported the error or spun, but now it just worked
<pmcgowan> my greeter says phablet now
<ogra_> lovely +
<mterry> pmcgowan, on the phone?!  shoot, that's my fault then
<ogra_> thats likely the changes for the demo stuff
<davmor2> pmcgowan, barry: so when I hit the issue if I clicked on updates it failed. If I then rebooted and clicked on the notice that there was an update it would just work
<mterry> pmcgowan, I don't see that
<pmcgowan> mterry, no on tablet
<mterry> pmcgowan, is that a change?  It's supposed to
<pmcgowan> mterry, I foget what it used to say but it wasnt phablet
<barry> davmor2: i think you're getting lucky.  for the folks who a reboot or s-i-dbus timeout doesn't help, the possibility of course is that the underlying problem (i.e. likely now in qt networking) crops up again
<pmcgowan> I think it was Guest
<pmcgowan> barry, did you find out why the qt stuff was updated?
<mterry> pmcgowan, oh yeah.  that makes sense
<pmcgowan> barry, I have no idea why we would have done that
<ogra_> we dont set GECOS data in /etc/passwd
<barry> pmcgowan: mandel is investing that.  i'm working on system-image to help diagnose the problem with more logging
<mterry> ogra_, the greeter isn't even that advanced right now
<ogra_> mterry, pmcgowan, we should probably set that to "Ubuntu Phablet User" or some such
<mterry> ogra_, still uses fake data
<ogra_> so that there is a fallback in such cases
<ogra_> ah
<mterry> ogra_, but how it handles the fake data changed recently
<ogra_> right
<pmcgowan> ogra_, or "Pat" on my tablet
<ogra_> pmcgowan, tsk, that would be way to obvious ... in the end every user whats his mane there !
<ogra_> *want's
<mterry> We're getting there!  slowly
<pmcgowan> ogra_, btw, I have a dozen crash files from my last boot on N10, is that a known thing?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, not really
<ogra_> whopsie should automatically upload them (in theory)
<pmcgowan> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6921917/
<mterry> system-image-cli worked
<barry> mterry: cool
<pmcgowan> barry, is there a way to fake the system into thinking it has an update?
<ogra_> hah !
<ogra_> the (felt) 100st try worked
 * ogra_ is watching rotating android guts
<pmcgowan> so what is causing this race
<pmcgowan> ogra_, did you reboot?
<ogra_> this time i didnt and actually checked via adb shell if the blacklist file is there etc etc ... i was essentially looking around on the phone while the download was running
<ogra_> but i doubt that cause it to work
<ogra_> *caused
<ogra_> 176 looks great on my mako
<barry> pmcgowan: not from the ui but `system-image-cli -b 0` will do it from the shell
<pmcgowan> ok
<ogra_> barry, well, for me the UI worked this time
<barry> ogra_: i guess you got lucky ;)
<ogra_> yeah, i doubt it is because i kept it busy in adb
<ogra_> but thats the one difference to former tries
<mandel> pmcgowan, we will get there don't worry is a matter of time :)
<ogra_> mandel, well, it shows a flaw in our QA
<ogra_> mandel, the first image that had the issue should have never been promoted
<ogra_> we need an OTA test in the daily tests
<barry> ogra_: i agree.  given how prevalent this issue is in the field now, i think if we were doing a bunch of updates in the tests, we would have caught it
<ogra_> but that will only work for $image -1
<ogra_> barry, the prob is that you cant really test it before there is a new image to upgrade to
<mandel> ogra_, correct, and we are lucky to not have a huge user base
<barry> ogra_: one thing we could do (have to ask stgraber) is to fake an image+1 and try to upgrade to that
<ogra_> mandel, yeah, it is something we need to have sorted before that happens :)
<davmor2> ogra_: there is a limit on time and when I and popey hit it we reported it but by then we had updated I've not hit it since
<stgraber> barry: a while back I told QA to just update channel.ini's build number to current-1, then run an update
<ogra_> davmor2, same for me, my mako only sees promoted images
<barry> stgraber: that would work too
<ogra_> stgraber, oh, good idea, we need a test for that
<davmor2> ogra_: my mako is currently on 4.4.2
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i have a flo for that :)
<davmor2> ogra_: so do I and manta
<ogra_> my mako is actually my daily phone
<stgraber> barry: re-applying deltas is harmless, so you can set the id to any former value and it shouldn't harm your system, just re-apply stuff you already have
<davmor2> ogra_: so is mine
<mandel> ogra_, or he are like the hare from Snatch => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy7OdvPvFyU
<ogra_> i dont test on it
<davmor2> ogra_: I do always
<ogra_> i dogfood
<barry> stgraber: that's a great idea actually
<ogra_> mandel, lol
<davmor2> ogra_: the difference between a user and qa ;) I'm desperate to kill it you just want it to work :)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> i have other devices to kill
<davmor2> ogra_: yeah so do I but they sit in the office the phone goes everywhere :)
<ogra_> mine move around the house with me :)
<ogra_> barry, so i guess that needs some coordination to develop such a test, QA should writ ean AP test that uses the GUI, and se need doanac or plars for some UTAH fun to patch the channel.ini one revision down
<ogra_> s/se/we/
<ogra_> (given that system-image-cli seems to always work i doubt that needs the same amount of testing)
<barry> ogra_: plus s-i-cli is not generally an end-user tool
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> disaster recovery :)
<nexus4> hi guys
<nexus4> need help in installing ubuntu on nexus 4
<nexus4> do we have whats app for ubuntu touch
<nexus4> please help me
<thomi> tedg: how are those libUAL landings going?
<tedg> thomi, One down, waiting on a silo for the gir bindings.
<thomi> tedg: ok.
<thomi> tedg: cyphermox can help you with that
<tedg> thomi, FYI, line 67 in the sheet
<thomi> tedg: got it, thanks
<ogra_> nexus4, installation instructions are linked in the channel topic ... and no, there is no whatsapp for ubuntu yet
<danwest> ubuntu touch devel image - wifi not a standard config option?
<danwest> all I get is "Auto-join previous networks"
<ogra_> danwest, wifi works fine here
<danwest> ogra: strange
<ogra_> danwest, what device is that ?
<danwest> nexus 4
<danwest> orga_: just updated today to devel image
<ogra_> and you dont see the wlans around you listed if you pull down the panel ?
<danwest> nope
<danwest> all I see under the network pulldown is "Cellular settings..."
<ogra_> thats very strange ... we have many N4 users around here, nobody had any issues
<danwest> orga_: figured, which is why I am a bit confused
<Tuxkalle> just did a install on my nexus 4 and i don't either see any wlan
<danwest> orga_: also, sound does not work for me
<ogra_> hmm, i have wlan and sound with todays image
<danwest> orga_: Ubuntu 14.04(r176)
<ogra_> right
<Tuxkalle> thats my version to
<Tuxkalle> but one ting before i start reading the wiki :-) i see i can write in the terminal app but no action after writing the comand. is there someting other than enter i shoud press?
<ogra_> if you go the the system-settings app, do you see the wlans there ?
<ogra_> Tuxkalle, sadly there is a bug in the terminal app since a while that swallows enter and backspace
<danwest> ogra_: nope, just the "Auto-join" option under system-settings->wifi
<danwest> same as what I saw with saucy image before I upgraded
<ogra_> rsalveti, sergiusens, does one of  you know if the 4.4 radio FW trashes wifi too ?
<danwest> btw, the phone itself is fully functioning under android
<ogra_> danwest, did you run android 4. on it ?
<ogra_> *4.4
<rsalveti> ogra_: 4.4 radio should work on both
<ogra_> Tuxkalle, same question to you
<Tuxkalle> was running 4.4
<rsalveti> but if you flash 4.4's radio with the 4.2 image, then yes
<ogra_> rsalveti, right, thats what i think
<ogra_> if they both ran 4.4 that might be their wlan issue
<Tuxkalle> i see when i go to update again that it sayes systemimage.gpg.signatureError
<danwest> orga_: how do I check radio version and upgrade if necessary ?
<sergiusens> ogra_, 4.4 radio breaks wifi on 4.2 but ril is fine
<ogra_> Tuxkalle, danwest https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation#Android4.4Radio
<sergiusens> danwest, iirc it's listed in the bootloader
<ogra_> sergiusens, yeah, found the wiki entry inbetween, sorry for the noise :)
<ogra_> seems wifi and sound too ... not only phone calls
 * ogra_ only had phone calls in mind ... had forgotten that wifi was affected too
<sergiusens> ogra_, I also added an entry in the Release Notes a couple of months ago
<ogra_> gee ... its really time that we switch to the 4.4 base ... so we dont hit such issues anymore
<mandel> barry, in the system-image tests, in the controller is self.tmpdir unique per test?
<mandel> barry, and where is it?
<danwest> orga_: radio 4.2 or 4.3?
<ogra_> danwest, just follow the wiki
<danwest> orga_: sorry missed that it states 4.3 there
<ogra_> :)
<barry> mandel: yes, it is unique per test.  you can't tell ahead of time, since tempfile.mkdtemp() gives us a temp directory securely
<mandel> barry, self.tmpdir from the controller is that good for the logs?
<barry> mandel: well, that's where temp dbus conf files would live.  as long as it's unlikely that the log files would name collide with anything in there, it's probably fine.  or create a subdir called 'logs' and put it in there?
<stefandudev> hi guys
<barry> mandel: i.e. os.path.join(self.tmpdir, 'logs')
<stefandudev> hello>
<mandel> barry, well, I'd prefer to be able to do it per test, else is kinda ugly
<mandel> barry, else,  the logging ensures that there is no overlap between the log files
<barry> mandel: ah, one thing you should understand is that there is only one controller for the entire test run (see testing/nose.py).  that's because of the dbus-daemon limitation on DBUS_SYSTEM_BUS_ADDRESS envar (libdbus only reads that envar once during the entire process lifetime and it can't be reset).
<mandel> barry, by looking at the code I understood that, so I have a small branch for udm and for s-i
<barry> mandel: so, i think i might have lied above when i said it was unique per test (i misunderstood your question ;)
<mandel> barry, not a big deal :)
<mandel> I have this => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-download-manager/use-log-dir/+merge/206051
<mandel> barry, + the following => lp:~mandel/ubuntu-system-image/udm-log
<barry> mandel: one thought: nose2 would allow us to set a per-test logging directory on the controller object.  we could even control that through a command line option to put it in a non-tempdir location
<mandel> barry, and that would be awesome!
<mandel> barry, take a look at my "crappy" branches
<barry> :)
<mandel> barry, is already an improvement
<barry> mandel: did you find anything out about the change in qt networking that triggered this?
<mandel> barry, not really, it was updated because of GL
<mandel> barry, so I have to look closer.. and is 23:00
<mandel> barry, so I'm doing the less challenging things now
<barry> mandel: yikes. ;)  so, your branch is fine but i think we can do better by hooking into nose2 for per-test logging and/or switch.  i could take that on if you land the udm change for -log-dir
<mandel> barry, already proposed and pinged people to take a look
<barry> mandel: fantastic, thanks
<mandel> barry, right now looking at adding the tags for the downloads
<barry> mandel: i'll have a branch that improves the SignatureError logging soon.  i can merge in your branch, add the nose2 hook, and put something in my PPA.  then perhaps we can get some folks to try the two out
<barry> mandel: can you in the meantime put a udm with this new switch in your ppa?
<mandel> balloons, I'm thinking about GROUP-{$UUID} - log
<rickspencer3> barry, mandel so if I get "checking for updates ..." and then straight to the FileNotFoundError ...
<rickspencer3> is that the same issue that ogra_ and others are hitting today?
<mandel> barry, yes, will put this in my ppa right now
<ogra_> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> ogra_, ok, yesterday it at least tried to download the update
<barry> rickspencer3: i think it is.  we will at least have some ppa packages that may help us better track this down
<mandel> rickspencer3, yes, something terrible bad happened under our feet and we are working hard trying to find what is going on
<rickspencer3> going to be interesting to see how this gets unstuck
<rickspencer3> how to get the fix if we can't update?
<barry> i think it will be really interesting to see what qt did, how it affects us, and whether we need to patch qt or work around it at a higher level
<ogra_> rickspencer3, you can update from the cmdline
<rickspencer3> btw, this is the great thing about only prompting good quality images
<ogra_> rickspencer3, not convenient but works
<ogra_> rickspencer3, we worked out a proper test for this issue so it shouldnt hit us again once it is implemented
<rickspencer3> ogra_, right, but in the meantime, at least I have a nice stable, non-buggy image
<barry> rickspencer3, ogra_ after i get a couple of branches proposed, i'll hack on my device to see if i can reproduce it.  it would be *so* much easier to debug if i could
<rickspencer3> barry, what do you need, a nexus 4?
<rickspencer3> barry, I thought you were in Boston area, for some reason
<ogra_> rickspencer3, not everyone hits the issue it seems
<barry> rickspencer3: i have a n10.  the question is how to set up my open home wifi network to provoke the issue.
<barry> rickspencer3: maryland :)
<rickspencer3> barry, well, come meet me at work tomorrow
<rickspencer3> I can just give you my phone!
<barry> rickspencer3: yeah, if i can get to the metro through the snowpocalypse :)
<rickspencer3> barry, seriously, I have a co-working space in dupont circle
<rickspencer3> barry, right, so I am like 3 blocks from Dupont Circle metro
<rickspencer3> think about it
<rickspencer3> I can just not update my phone, the tomorrow you can party on it
<barry> rickspencer3: i definitely will
<barry> (it would be fun do it that anyway some time when we're not putting out fires)
<rickspencer3> barry, get my cell # from the canonical directory and send me a text
<barry> rickspencer3: will do
<rickspencer3> barry, sure, we should totally have a little informal hackathon here sometime
<rickspencer3> but, meanwhile, I bet if you have my phone for an hour, you can get to the heart of the problem, figure out how to set up a test, etc...
<mandel> barry, update the recipe and requested a build for my ppa
<barry> rickspencer3: yes!  it's always good to take a shower and put on pants once in a while :)
<rickspencer3> barry, you should clarify for UK folks that "pants" in the US are "trousers" ;)
<ogra_> barry, pffft
<barry> darn, i forgot not all the euros are asleep by now :)
<mandel> barry, I think we are two :)
<mandel> spain and germany for the win!
<ogra_> \o/
<mandel> ogra_, you should take a rest ;)
<ogra_> i'm resting ... with my laptop on my knees
<ogra_> ;)
<barry> ok, back to hacking
<mandel> barry, as soon as the ppa is done I'll ping you
<mandel> barry, writing another branch that adds extra logging, slows down stuff but will give us lots of info
<barry> mandel: +1
<mandel>  barry build request with that branch + extra logging and extra checks on requests finishes
<danwest> orga_: back rev-ing the radio did the trick, thx
<mandel> barry, I get weird ERROR msgs when running the tests => http://paste.ubuntu.com/6922544/
<barry> mandel: weird indeed!  see if you get more output when the test completes
<mandel> barry, that is from trunk too, weird weird..
<barry> mandel: other than the pesky connection resets i don't see this on my branch (but haven't gotten to yours yet)
<barry> yeah, i definitely don't see those on trunk.
<barry> (only the occasional peer resets)
<mandel> barry, udm trunk + si trunk + trusty = ERROR messages
<mandel> barry, waiting for output, then testing with the one in the img
<barry> mandel: okay, the only difference with me is that i'm using your ppa udm
<barry> well, ppa as of a day or so ago
<mandel> barry, and works?
<barry> mandel: yes, except for those peer resets.  no ERROR messages
<mandel> barry, Im going crazy, cause trunk is what is in my ppa
 * mandel swears in spanish
<mandel> balloons, 0.3+14.04.20131219-1~236~ubuntu14.04.1 has all the new stuff
<cyphermox_> tedg: did you get your silo?
 * tedg checks
<tedg> cyphermox_, No, if there's one available I'd love one for line 67
<cyphermox_> ah, ok, your stuff is line 67
<cyphermox_> I'd love for stats re: available.
<cyphermox_> it'd be less yucky than the current setup
<cyphermox_> perhaps I should make a rrd graph
<tedg> Yeah, it's not pretty now.  Kinda forced to ask folks and hope it works out :-)
<cyphermox_> yeah give me a bit
<tedg> cyphermox_, I need to get kids and do dinner.  But if you can get a silo and hit build I can test it tonight.
<tedg> cyphermox_, Thanks for your help!
<cyphermox_> robru: I'll handle this one &
<mandel> barry, the error I'm getting => http://paste.ubuntu.com/6922791/
<barry> mandel: it's impossible to tell from that paste exactly what's happening, but it can only be one of two things: either the system-image-dbus process exited early or didn't start, or the u-d-m process exited early or didn't start.  i can't tell where in the s-i code that's happening (the traceback doesn't include that), but there aren't many possibilities.  my guess is that it's in _kill() in controller.py.  are you sure u-d-m is getting
<barry> started and not crashing? ;)
<mandel> barry, I can see the udm logs
<barry> mandel: i think we really have to figure out these peer resets.  they just make me really uncomfortable
<xmbax> hi
<mandel> barry, yes, but I first need to be able to run the test without those errors..
<xmbax> i want to ask about can i install ubuntu on my galaxy s4
<barry> mandel: controller.py has 3 wait calls.  my guess is that it's one of those.  one is when it's trying to stop system-image-dbus and the other is where it's trying to stop u-d-m
<barry> (the other is when it's shutting down everything)
<mandel> barry, I must have done something stupid
<barry> mandel: let me run tests here against trusty udm, trunk s-i
<mandel> barry, that would be great
<xmbax> i want to ask about can i install ubuntu on my galaxy s4
<barry> mandel: question for you: when you download a file to a local path, do you write the file to that path directly, or do you write the file to say a .tmp file and then move it in place once it's been successfully downloaded?
<mandel> barry, directly
<barry> mandel: cool.  and just to be sure: you wouldn't remove that file unless it's *not* downloaded successfully, right?
<barry> mandel, ogra_, rickspencer3 (who isn't here): wow!  okay, i've gotten the FileNotFoundError on my device too.  and i'm on an open home network, so no login protection at all.  i now have something i can dig into.
<mandel> barry, is deleted if errors happened
<mandel> barry, only then
<barry> mandel: cool, i thought so, just wanted to be sure.  of course, now the update doesn't fail :/
<mandel> barry, I bet is going to be something soooo stupid that we are going to try and delete the irc logs :-/
<barry> mandel: you are so right ;).  but i know it's super late for you.  feel free to knock off for the night if you need to.  i'll be taking a break for dinner soon, but will get back on this afterward
<mandel> barry, yes, I'm going to call it a night, will look closer early in the morning
<barry> mandel: g'night!
<svenn_> Anybody who knows when Ubuntu touch will support Nexus 7 (2013)?
<miseria> "la verdadera felicidad de un ser humano, se logra cuando deja de ser esclavo, de la avaricia y la codicia" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-13
<Term1nal> Desktop mode for ubuntu touch available yet?
<RAOF> No
<Term1nal> Aww :( ok see you in 6 months!
<Term1nal> Where I'll ask agian
<Term1nal> :D
<CalmForest> hello anybody here?
<CalmForest> How long does it take to boot for the first time? I tried manually flashing the zip, but after google it just gives me a black screen. wiped and tried again still results in the same situation.
<CalmForest> anybody?
<CalmForest> hi guys?
<CalmForest> can anyone help me? or tell me what time it is at least
<dholbach> good morning
<mardy> dbarth_: hi! Is there any way we can speed up the landing of item 240? https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Au6idq7TkpUUdGNWb0tTVmJLVzFZd0doV3dVOGpWemc#gid=1
<timppa> Hi, is there a bug open on the OTA update blacklist.tar.* file missing/corrupt?
<timppa> I've had the problem since few images back. I can update via adb system-image-cli -v command just fine
<ogra_> bug 1277589
<ubot5> bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589
<ogra_> mardy, saking in #ubuntu-ci-eng is better for that kind of questions ... (you can most likely speed it up by running the AP tests in advance)
<ogra_> s/saking/asking/
<jibel> barry, mandel wrt. the bug above, I added a test case to the description and can reproduce it very easily. If you need specific info or run some tests just ask.
<ogra_> jibel, heh, well, that only works for every 10th person
<ogra_> (which is the big issue with this bug)
<ogra_> many dont get it at all ... and it shows across all devices
<jibel> ogra_, at least I can reproduce by flashing 176 and upgrading to 178 on my network, 3 times in a row
<ogra_> yeah, if it happes to you it seems to be consistent
<mhr3> didrocks, looks like unity-scope-scopes is in distro now, can i press the magic merge and clean?
<mhr3> it's all red, so i'm scared :P
<didrocks> mhr3: you can always press the magic merge and clean, it will tell you if it wasn't the right time :)
<mhr3> heh, ok
<davmor2> Morning all
<tvoss> pitti, salut
<dbarth_> mardy: yes, get the landing team to activate it
<timppa> 20140213.1 broken on Mako? Does not boot to unity
<popey> thats 179, yes, broken.
<timppa> :(
<timppa> popey: Any way to fix it without new image?
<popey> I don't know, it's being discussed in #ubuntu-ci-eng
<timppa> popey: ok
<popey> you can roll back to 178
<timppa> popey: what's the command on adb shell for rollback?
<timppa> popey: system-image-cli -v -b 177 ?
<timppa> 178..
<popey> -1 i think
<popey> -1 previous build, -2 previous previous...
<popey> maybe check the docs for system-image-cli
<timppa> any idea how I can enable networking?
<popey> phablet-network
<timppa> popey: nope, I have wireless connections configured but they cannot be enabled
<timppa> popey: I could enable 3G data via ofono scripts, I'll try to downgrade
<timppa> popey: thanks!
<timppa> popey: It just refuses to downgrade. I tried with -b -1 -b 178, -b 177
<timppa> popey: how can I check which image it "thinks" it's running?
<popey> timppa: adb shell system-image-cli --info
<timppa> popey: hmm, 179
<timppa> popey: It seems it's doing something but after install it's still 179 :/
<sergiusens> timppa, from the outside? ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel-proposed --revision 178 ?
<sergiusens> unless you want to use system-image-cli; then I have nothing to say
<timppa> sergiusens: as long as I don't lose any data on the phone it's fine whichever utility I use :)
<sergiusens> it's not supposed to delete your data unless you --wipe
<timppa> sergiusens: is it phablet-flash? Or which package contains the ubuntu-device-flash?
<popey> sergiusens: any chance you can update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install with details about ubuntu-device-flash ?
<popey> its the main place we send people to and doesn't say that phablet-flash is no longer maintained
<ybon> popey: I think I'm stuck on OSMTouch waiting for QT5.2 to land; any apps/issues I can work on now and then in the meantime (QML/js part mainly)?
<ybon> (I can just go to launchpad and pick one for sure, but as you coordinate things :) )
<popey> ybon: yeah!
<popey> ybon: could you take a look at the active reviews for calendar perhaps? That's all QML. https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+activereviews
<ybon> sure, lets do that :)
<sergiusens> timppa, apt-get ubuntu-device-flash
<popey> ybon: kunal would really appreciate the help, I'm sure!
<popey> ybon: also, if you're any good at performance tuning, if you could figure out a better way to do the year view that would be awesome. profiler shows it spends a lot of time in a chunk of code setting colors for the hundreds of elements on screen at once.
<ybon> popey: in two world, the worlkflow for me is: review the merge, and give comments?
<popey> ybon: yes.
<ybon> ok
<popey> Thank you!
<ybon> :)
<popey> ahayzen: pounce!
<timppa> sergiusens: I'm running saucy, no such package?
<popey> ybon: we have a calendar app irc meeting in ~40 mins in #ubuntu-touch-meeting if you fancy joining
<sergiusens> timppa, ppa:phablet-team/tools
<timppa> sergiusens: thanks!
<ybon> popey: sure
<sergiusens> popey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<sergiusens> feel free to make edits
<sergiusens> popey, would be good to remove manual installation and have ogra_ add the rootstock stuff
<popey> yeah, if that worked
<ogra_> sergiusens, popey's recovery on flo has no /cache partition at all ... i have no clue why
<ogra_> which indeed breaks rootsotck completely
<ogra_> popey, but other install wouldnt work either without that, not a rootstock issue
<popey> sure.
<sergiusens> it works
<sergiusens> popey, what recovery are you running?
<popey> tried http://paste.ubuntu.com/6915695/
<popey> the instructions from there, and tried a recovery from ogra_
<sergiusens> popey, try too boot once without rootstock; seem if that fixes it
<popey> boot to what?
<popey> if i boot I get a busybox shell
<ogra_> popey, to android
<ogra_> but you said you did that at least once
<popey> yeah
<popey> i just get busybox
<sergiusens> popey, busybox booting to android?
<ogra_> yeah, indeed, since the tarball couldnt be unpacked
<popey> if I just adb reboot, i get busybox
<ogra_> popey, no, your initial android 4.4 boot to android ... did you do that
<sergiusens> what I'm saying is; flash fully without rootstock; use the ubuntu zips
<popey> it had 4.3 or something
<popey> i updated it and rebooted
<ogra_> ah !
<popey> hang on
<popey> i did go into 4.4
<popey> then started flashing it
<ogra_> and you booted the 4.4 before ?
<ogra_> it should have cared for the partition
<popey> i started out of the box with 4.3, booted into android, system update, booted into android 4.4, booted into fastboot and thats where I started with your guide
<ogra_> hmm
<popey> ogra_: do i need to start again back on android original 4.4 ?
<ogra_> i would do so
<timppa> sergiusens: ubuntu-device-flash didn't work, error:  Cannot push /path/to/ubuntu-xxx.tar.xz to device
<ogra_> what was the actual /path/to ... ?
<ogra_> :)
<popey> ogra_: https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images#razor right?
<ogra_> hmm, i thought it was flo there too
<ogra_> iirc razor was the 3G grouper variant
<popey> razor vs razorg
<ogra_> hmm, k
<ogra_> then i'm probably wrong
<popey> nvm, it happens, you get used to it
<timppa> ogra_: /home/timppa/.cache/ubuntuimages/pool
<timppa> ogra_: file exists in that path
<jdstrand> mhall119: hope you don't mind-- I added several things to your click frameworks todo list
<ogra_> timppa, well, that /path/to in the error message looks really weird
<timppa> ogra_: :) Well, I did not type the original path. My IRC client and the laptop which I'm working with the phone are two different machines so no copy-paste...
<timppa> ogra_: which patch ubuntu-device-flash tries to push the image? Maybe there is not enough free space?
<timppa> ogra_: pastebin.ubuntu.com/6925548
<ogra_> timppa, yeah, check the free space on the device
<timppa> ogra_: pastebin.ubuntu.com/6925571/
<ogra_> /dev/disk/by-partlabel/cache    552M  366M  186M  67% /android/cache
<ogra_> looks like you still have some spare space
<ogra_> timppa, try using recovery mode and use -d mako for the flash command
<timppa> ogra_: I'll try, thanks
<timppa> ogra_: problem was that there was not enough space on cache slice
<ogra_> right, but that theoretically shouldnt happen
<timppa> ogra_: theoretically :)
<popey> sergiusens: ok, so with this 2013 nexus 7, which guide should I use to take it from stock android 4.4 to ubuntu goodness?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> popey, the pastebin still
<timppa> ogra_: thank you for the help!
<popey> ok
<ogra_> (i dont think there is any other valid guide anymore)
<MacSlow> anybody else having problems with the image in the emulator not displaying anything?
<ogra_> MacSlow, if you used the latest one from -proposed, thats broken (see the ML)
<ogra_> if you dont, take into account that the first boot of the emulator takes >10min
<MacSlow> ogra_, hm... pulled the image on this machine before lunch... so I guess I've the broken one
<popey> ogra_: flo flashed \o/
<ogra_> yay
<MacSlow> ogra_, so I guess I've to disable -proposed and grab a new one then
<ogra_> so your upgrade to 4.4 somehow didnt create the cache partition on the first run
<ogra_> MacSlow, see the ML ... there is a workaround
<ogra_> MacSlow, or go to lunch ... there is a new image with the fix building already
<ogra_> shuld be ready in 30-34min
<MacSlow> ogra_, I had lunch by now :)
<MacSlow> ogra_, I'll wait then
<ogra_> ah, i missed how late it already is :)
<mterry> ogra_, missing exec bit?  how did it work at all?
<ogra_> mterry, i didnt have merged the merge branch back into the main branch ... ricardo merged the debdiff it seems, then added his merge and uploaded
<ogra_> the debdiff didnt have the exec bit
<barry> jibel: yes, i'm flashing to 174 and upgrading from there.  i've seen it just once on my device, but hopefully that will be good enough to capture
<ogra_> mterry, so my upload worked fine ... and his (with a completely unrelated change set) didnt
<cwayne> mterry, hey, so for thaat demo-users stuff, it's showing up on the mako now as well, i thought it only was supposed to do that on tablet?
<mterry> ogra_, sorry, got disconnected.  So do we think the exec bit fix is all we need?  I remember with image 177 only sometimes were people seeing a black screen.  Which sounded like a USC crash, not an exec bit problem
<ogra_> <ogra_> mterry, i didnt have merged the merge branch back into the main branch ... ricardo merged the debdiff it seems, then added his merge and uploaded
<ogra_> <ogra_> the debdiff didnt have the exec bit
<ogra_> <ogra_> mterry, so my upload worked fine ... and his (with a completely unrelated change set) didnt
<mterry> ogra_, oh this was post 177?  I see
<ogra_> 179
<ogra_> but 180 is already building with the fix included
<mterry> ogra_, well I still feel nervous about 177's occasional black-screen boot.  I'm going to spend some time rebooting today and see if I can hit it
<ogra_> i havent had a black screen oot here
<ogra_> and i havent heard from others
<ogra_> apart from one person on the ML who didnt even mention which device he has
<mterry> ogra_, on the landing thread for 177, two people mentioned
<mterry> ogra_, one of them said mako
<ogra_> mterry, for 177 ? are you not mixing the threads here ?
<mterry> ogra_, listen, I don't want anything to need another nested mode revert   :)
<mterry> ogra_, let me dig it up
<mterry> ogra_, sorry, 176 was the image number
<mhall119> jdstrand: I don't mind at all, especially since most of them are assigned to you :)
<mterry> ogra_, Sebastian GomuÅka reported it with mako.  I guess just the one
<ogra_> mterry, well, as long as we hear it from only one ...
<ogra_> mterry, note that if apport or whoopsie kick in after an upgrade, the boot can take very long ... i would currently be inclined to assume that was the case for him and he just didnt give feedback that it worked later
<mterry> ogra_, hmm, fair
<mterry> well, I'm still nervous, but won't spend a bunch of time trying to reproduce
<jdstrand> mhall119: hehe
<jdstrand> mhall119: the one for cjwatson we already agreed to (hi Colin!)
<jdstrand> mhall119: and the one for bzoltan just makes his life easier
<mhall119> jdstrand: as long as there aren't more items with [mhall119] on them, I'm happy :)
<jdstrand> hi Zoltan! :)
<jdstrand> hehe
<cjwatson> sure, it's just blocked behind libclick
<cjwatson> once I finish the https installer work I'm doing at the moment, that's next on my list per guidance from Steve
<jdstrand> cjwatson: so, I'm not sure if you will land that for FF, but I can just do the parsing myself for the tag to unblock on the app showdown
<jdstrand> ah, ok, cool, maybe I won't need to do that
<jdstrand> s/tag/framework/
<pmcgowan> libclick woopee
<pmcgowan> jdstrand, gave you write access
<jdstrand> thanks
 * jdstrand changes 'link-reviewers-rools to 'click-reviewers-tools'
<jdstrand> I don't have anything to do with that first project
<jdstrand> err, lick-reviewers-tools
<jdstrand> jokes are funnier when you type them correctly
<pmcgowan> bad cut and paste I suspect
<jdstrand> :)
<pmcgowan> not the first time
<ogra_> lick-reviwers ? is that an order ?
<pmcgowan> dooh
<jdstrand> there we go :)
<cjwatson> jdstrand: maaaaaaaaaaybe
<jdstrand> cjwatson: click-apparmor already hard codes, I'll hard code for this for now, then transition whenever libclick lands
<cjwatson> jdstrand: if you can parse it yourself initially, that would certainly take the pressure off a bit
<bzoltan> jdstrand: hello there ... who summoned me and for what reason? :)
<davmor2> dbarth_, alex-abreu: Guys I installed the bbc news webapp and noticed that if I cover the sensors the screen blanks is that meant to happen ?
<jdstrand> cjwatson: np
<jdstrand> bzoltan: just the thread on ubuntu-appstore-developers on the 'Switching Click framework to 14.04 Dev' tasks
<alex-abreu> davmor2, no, the webapp displays fine otherwise?
<alex-abreu> davmor2, I dont see how it can be related to webapp per se
<bzoltan> jdstrand: is there anything I need to do?
<dbarth_> davmor2: wdym by "cover the sensors"?
<davmor2> alex-abreu: Yeap it fine and if I remove my thumb from the sensors the screen unblanks
<dbarth_> ?!
<alex-abreu> davmor2, no idea why it does that, but it shouldn't be specific to webapps ...
<davmor2> dbarth_: I put the phone down initially on my printer which has a fairly enclosed tray and the screen went out so I took a closer look.  Basically by the earpiece you have the sensors for light and proximity and those are blanking the screen from what I can tell
<davmor2> alex-abreu: and you are right it is happening on normal apps too
<robotfuel_> boiko: ping
<alex-abreu> phfewww
<davmor2> okay hands up if you deal with the proximity and light sensors :D
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I dont see any relevant changes for that, which build are you on?
<ogra_> davmor2, ricmm
<davmor2> pmcgowan: 178, It might not be a current issue it might be an older one that I just happen to of stumbled onto
<jdstrand> bzoltan: there are a couple of items in that thread, yes
<pmcgowan> davmor2, never seen that, and not here on 176
<davmor2> pmcgowan: could it be the new unity8 code that landed on 178?
<pmcgowan> davmor2, I suppose, maybe greyback would know if any relevant code there
<jdstrand> bzoltan: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00760.html (you have items '1' and '11')
<davmor2> pmcgowan: hmmm it might actually be specific to maguro too mako is on a semi custom up-to-date build and it isn't happening there
<pmcgowan> davmor2, interesting, I see a platform_api fix for a sensors call in 177
<greyback> pmcgowan: davmor2: I've nothing to do with sensors really, it's powerd that reads that information directly via platform api.
<pmcgowan> ack
<boiko> robotfuel_: pong
<robotfuel_> boiko: can you review this mp when you have time? https://code.launchpad.net/~chris.gagnon/messaging-app/autopilot-tests/+merge/204947
<boiko> robotfuel_: sure, either me or salem_  will review  that
<MacSlow> ogra_, the chmod-fix for the usc-wrapper doesn't work for the emulator?!
<ogra_> MacSlow, feel free to try
<MacSlow> ogra_, well when the emulator is running I get a "read-only filesystem"-error when trying "adb shell touch /userdata/.writable_image"
<ogra_> MacSlow, yeah, thats what i suspected
<ogra_> MacSlow, image 180 is available now btw ... it has the fix
<MacSlow> ogra_, I guess I could only change that without the emulator running... but I don't know if I can mess with the image in that case
<MacSlow> ogra_, ok... so just recreate the image then
<ogra_> right
 * MacSlow crosses fingers
<davmor2> pmcgowan: okay weirder I rebooted and now it doesn't happen so I wonder if it is a knock on effect from the call test and the rule just never ends.   I try a call now and see if it happens again
<pmcgowan> davmor2, oh that could be if somehow proximity was not turned off on end of call
<davmor2> pmcgowan: Nope nothing I can't seem to trigger it again :(  I'll keep an eye out for it anyway and see if I can't reproduce it
<pmcgowan> davmor2, ok but that makes sense now, somehow powerd didn't get the call hangup and left sensor on
<pmcgowan> davmor2, do you have any crash files from that test?
<davmor2> pmcgowan: only crash file I have is _usr_lib_arm-linux-gnueabihf_upstart-app-launch_desktop-hook.32011.crash
<pmcgowan> davmor2, ok, guess we just watch for it again
<mandel> thostr_, sorry, I had no idea you where in the hangout :-)
<mandel> thostr_, so you know what we are doing, et me know when I can give a hand
<mandel> agh, wrong channel
<ilya> hi
<MacSlow> mzanetti, tsdgeos: unity8 trunk (with unity-notifications trunk) runs without failure through all the notification AP-tests on the desktop here.
<Yamagata> ng
<snwh> is it possible to take a screenshot on the mir-based images on a galaxy nexus (phablet-tools is telling me my device is unsupported)
<snwh> phablet-screenshot*
<MacSlow> ogra_, ah... I've my emulator back... read: the 180 is working... phew :)
<ogra_> :)
<MacSlow> ogra_, now I won't touch that setup until April ;)
<cwayne> mterry, ping
<mterry> cwayne, hello
<cwayne> mterry, heya, so now that your unity8 demo-users branch is in the image, i've added a .unity8-greeter(or whatever the filename was) to setup the multi-user greeter demo
<mterry> awesome
<cwayne> but it's not showing up on the phone as well (i thought it was only meant for tablet)
<mterry> cwayne, that file is used on both phone and tablet
<jcbjoe> hi all i have a question .. i been reading that all support has stopped and is now for nexus 7 .. i have a nexus 7
<jcbjoe> i also have a mac computer
<jcbjoe> can i get ubuntu touch on my nexus 7 via this mac ?
<pessauro> heu
<pessauro> hei
<cwayne> mterry, blagh, so ill have to find a way to only apply it to tablets..
<frecel__> popey: I have not changed anything in SmartFart so if it doesn't work it's something in the OS
<frecel__> popey: also good morning :D
<popey> frecel__: I'll do some more testing and check the logs, this is of course my top piority :p
<jcbjoe> let me back up
<jcbjoe> is the only way to get ubuntu touch to a nexus 7 thru gnu/linux (linux) or can i do it from a mac ?
<cwayne> jcbjoe, which nexus 7? (old one or new one)
<bfiller> kenvandine: meeting?
<jcbjoe> cwayne, 2013
<frecel> well you could also make html5 launcher work, unless it already does because the last time I checked was on 170 (i think)
<jcbjoe> cwayne, nexus 7 2013
<cwayne> jcbjoe, it'll be available to flash soon, but not quite yet via ubuntu-device-flash, which AIUI works on mac
<kenvandine> bfiller, oh... i forgot the meeting
<kenvandine> bfiller, still having it?
<bfiller> kenvandine: lets do a quick sync
<pmcgowan> mandel, barry do you have any debug libs to use on the update issue? my tablet currently stuck again
<asac> barry: mandel: so do you feel stuck in the upgrade bug?
<asac> hehe
<kenvandine> bfiller, give me a couple minutes
<bfiller> kenvandine: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/cmFjaGVsLmxpdUBjYW5vbmljYWwuY29t.ekpliocgi08ceqi2pch3emv1eg
<barry> i'm in a meeting atm, but i will soon have a branch/ppa package that will gather more information.  i was able to reproduce the crash *once* on my device late last night, so that gives me some hope that i can capture it.  we still don't know at what layer the bug/change is though
<asac> barry: so its a crash?
<barry> asac: i think some downloaded file is getting corrupted, causing the gpg signatures to fail validation.  but it's *very* random and intermittent.  after i got the one error on my device, i ran it maybe 1/2 dozen more times with no errors
<asac> barry: can you see how the code is not robust aganist that?
<ogra_> asac, it clearly looks like the request to download the blacklist file doesnt reach the download manager
<barry> asac: but now i know it can happen on open wifi networks, so likely has nothing to do with 3g or login-protected networks
<asac> barry: it can always happen
<barry> asac: well, what can it do?  if the signature doesn't match, you can't trust the file
<ogra_> barry, u-d-m never downloads it
<jcbjoe> cwayne, so i can get parallels or something/ install ubuntu then i can go that route correct ?
<ogra_> and it doesnt look like it is asked for that
<asac> barry: yes, you have to plan for that... you will always have corruptionm
<asac> barry: or failed downloads etc.
<asac> barry: so we need to have mechanism to evict stuff that was broken or something
<asac> barry: also they say it works with cli?
<barry> asac: right.  corrupted stuff does get evicted, so a retry would succeed.  if of course the corruption doesn't happen again
<ogra_> barry, see the syslog as well as the new "ubuntu-downaload-manager-log" on the bug
<ogra_> the download is never attempted
<asac> barry: but is that what people observe?
<asac> can they click again and it redownloads etc.?
<ogra_> asac, the UI indicates so
<barry> asac: sometimes.  for me it does work on subsequent tries.
<ogra_> if the background process timed out you can just run the UI again and it seems to start downloading again
<asac> pmcgowan: does it redownload/retry after this issue happens for you?
<ogra_> yes, he told me about it
<ogra_> last night
<pmcgowan> asac, depends, when system-image-dbus crashes then you need to restart
<asac> so its all about better error reporting so the user knows what to try?
<ogra_> asac, well, that wont give you the file
<asac> e.g. "the downloaded update wasn't good, please try again after ensuring you have good networking"
<asac> ?
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1277589/+attachment/3979749/+files/ubuntu-download-manager.log20140213-151948.2314
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1277589 in ubuntu-download-manager ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ogra_> grep for blacklist in this file
<pmcgowan> asac, I dont think its that simple, my network here is fine and it failed
<pmcgowan> something else is going on
<pmcgowan> and was at the office and it failed
<ogra_> or in this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1277589/+attachment/3972761/+files/syslog
<barry> here's a mystery: why did we get the first report of this on feb 7 when neither u-d-m nor s-i has changed since december?  maybe nobody saw it until the u/i made it evident the error was happening, but i don't think that's the case.
<asac> pmcgowan: yeah. so download can be corrupted by bogus wifi, but also through crashes etc.
<ogra_> (both have download manager logs)
<asac> imo the update manager should just recover transparently
<ogra_> barry, they communicate over dbus
<asac> barry: maybe our wifi is more flaky now
<asac> or dbus etc.
<ogra_> barry, there is polkit involved, logind and dbus itself
<barry> asac: right, *and* there was a change to libqt5network5 on feb 6, which is darn suspicious, although the changelog doesn't reveal anything
<ogra_> and the request to download blacklist clearly never reaches u-d-m
<ogra_> asac, it definitely isnt the wifi
<ogra_> it happens on the way from s-i to u-d-m somewhere
<barry> ogra_: i hadn't thought about changes to dbus.  do you know when that might have changed on touch?
<ogra_> barry, nope, i was looking at the one policykit change yet, but that doesnt seem to have anything that could cause this ... looking at dbus changes was on my list next (got two meetings in a row now)
<barry> ogra_: in my test suite on amd64 desktop, i *do* see new and strange dbus behavior.  like s-i not receiving all the expected signals from u-d-m
<ogra_> barry, right, so it could happen vice versa
<barry> ogra_: so in the test suite, you can get timeout errors because the finish/cancel/error signal from u-d-m never reaches s-i
<pmcgowan> dbus did update feb5
<barry> so if dbus is somehow dropping messages, that could explain a both symptoms
<barry> pmcgowan: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus says jan 17
<barry> but maybe it only landed in touch by feb 5?
<pmcgowan> I see libdbus-cpp1:armhf from 1.0.0+14.04.20140123-0ubuntu1 to 1.0.0+14.04.20140123.1-0ubuntu1
<pmcgowan> on feb 5
<barry> pmcgowan: that is definitely a useful avenue to investigate.  mind if i ask you to follow that lead, while mandel follows the networking change, and i work on the s-i level?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, cpp
<ogra_> not sure there is muchg using that yet
<pmcgowan> right
<ogra_> (apart from location service)
<barry> well, u-d-m might.  it's qt and c++.  s-i wouldn't, it uses libdbus
<ogra_> mandel, ^^^
<mandel> barry, ogra_ I'm adding even more logs to get the exact structure sent by s-i
<ogra_> does u-d-m use dbus-cpp ?
<mandel> ogra_, no, qtdbus, and last time someone touch libdbus in git was 2009
<mandel> I already went that far
<ogra_> right, but libdbus-cpp is new
<mandel> ogra_, and not used by me
<ogra_> i wonder if it can cause interference on the bus
<mandel> barry, ogra_ give me a few mins and I can build a new ppa with eve more logging jibel you can reproduce it, correct?
<barry> mandel, ogra_, jibel i need to dist-upgrade and reboot, but then i will build a ppa package of s-i that you can install to gather more data in the s-i logs
<ogra_> great
<barry> (i just don't want to upload that yet until i get current on trusty and have a successful unittest suite run)
 * barry will hopefully be back in a little bit
<jibel> bfiller, FYI I rebased lp:~jibel/address-book-app/abook_delete_contact_pickmode on trunk, renato already reviewed it. Not sure if the bot will re-review it again.
<bfiller> jibel: thanks
<jibel> renato, boiko , salem_ Hey, when you have time for reviews, there are 3 MPs waiting for you
<jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/address-book-app/abook_navigation_favorites/+merge/205264
<jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~allanlesage/address-book-app/abook_navigation_collapse/+merge/205890
<jibel> https://code.launchpad.net/~iahmad/dialer-app/smart-dialing-test/+merge/205706
<boiko> jibel: yep, I'm reviewing lots of other MRs today, but I think I can review those tomorrow
<boiko> jibel: I mean, the dialer-app one, the addressbook ones are for renato :)
<jibel> boiko, sounds good, thanks!
<jcbjoe> is anyone using ubuntu touch on a nexus 7 and if so how do you like it .. also are you using it as a daily driver ?
<jcbjoe> i read somewhere that all support will be going to the n7 2013 witch i have
<jcbjoe> which*
<popey> jcbjoe: i have it on a nexus 7 2013 here
 * ogra_ likes the new N7 a lot
<ogra_> ubuntu touch is super snappy on it
<ogra_> barry, soo ...
<ogra_> barry, this landed at the same time the issues started http://launchpadlibrarian.net/165161694/ubuntu-system-settings_0.1%2B14.04.20140203-0ubuntu1_0.1%2B14.04.20140206-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<ogra_> barry, do you have an idea of the update notification changes could have any influence on s-i behavior ? i tested with pmcgowan and when he rolled back the packages it worked for him (which could indeed just be coincidence)
<barry> ogra_: i don't *think* so since the dbus api hasn't changed, and afaik, the ui isn't doing anything crazy now like canceling or pausing an update in the middle (tho those operations should of course work)
<barry> ogra_: unless somehow the ui is messing with u-d-m
<ogra_> barry, well, it *must* be one of the packages landed on the 7th
<barry> ogra_: yeah, i agree!
<ogra_> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20140207.changes
<barry> ogra_: i still want to hear what mandel|afk has to say about libqt5network5
<ogra_> barry, that was a day before the 7th
<barry> ogra_: but that's a possibility right?  i.e. the landings on the 6th but we didn't notice until the 7th.  or people did notice, but retried enough times to make it succeed until popey's first bug report on the 7th
<ogra_> barry, and both first manifestations of the bug that we know about showed on the 7th
<ogra_> (popey as well as pmcgowan had it first on the same day)
<barry> ogra_: tbh, i'd be suspicious of any change from the 5th to the 7th
<ogra_> yeah, probably
<ogra_> i find it intresting though that it started to work for pat once he rolled back system-settings
<ogra_> but that can indeed be coincidence
<ogra_> he is just trying to reproduce the same
<barry> that is definitely an interesting data point
<barry> that package is "involved" in the upgrade process so it can't be ruled out
<ogra_> the bug is so flaky that it is hard to tell if it was the package roll-back, but it smells intresting already :)
<barry> indeed ;)
<barry> fwiw, my test suite is running and once that's done, i'll ppa a package that folks can try out.  i'll also be trying it on my device.  it won't fix the problem but it should provide better information
<ogra_> barry, the thing is though ... you have to make the image writable for installing the debs ...
<ogra_> so that might have some influence indeed
<barry> ogra_: yeah.  but it's the best we can do to continue debugging it
<barry> ogra_: another interesting test, albeit time consuming, is to flash back to older revisions until we find one that doesn't fail.  of course, it's hard to know if that's just luck or not, but still
<ogra_> barry, right
<ogra_> i dont have a device to reproduce ... else i would have done exactly that during the day
 * barry nods
<ogra_> (my maguro didnt expose it at all, my mako is my main phone and not for testing (not a company phone) and my flo and manta are on 4.4=
<ogra_> )
<zhanx> Any tips for compiling for a intel z2560 soc?
<frecel> Aaaannnnddddd I just bricked my Nexus 4
<popey> you sure?
<snwh> is there a way to take a screenshot on one's device?
<frecel> well software bricked anyway
<frecel> it's getting stucked on the google logo on boot
<ogra_> frecel, what did you do to it ?
<frecel> I tried to update to 180 and it didn't want to so I forced it through shell :D
<barry> ogra_: i flashed my device to r174 and tried to upgrade it and got the error.
<popey> snwh: depends which device
<frecel> turns out it wasn't a good idea :D
<popey> snwh: phablet-screeenshot is in the phablet-tools package and works on nexus 4
<ogra_> barry, right, to my knowledge it started between 169 and 170
<popey> frecel: force how?
<snwh> popey, i have a galaxy nexus
<popey> ogra_: does phablet-screenshot work on maguro?
<snwh> the phablet screenshot doesn't work with it
<popey> oh bummer
<barry> ogra_: yep.  so the next step for me will be to reflash to 174, install my new s-i package and see if i can capture enough info
<ogra_> snwh, remove /home/phablet/.display-mir ... reboot ... do what you need for the screenshot and take it, touch /home/phablet/.display-mir and reboot
<ogra_> popey, it crashes Mir on the PVR driver
<ogra_> crap HW ...
<snwh> ogra_ will try that, thanks
<ogra_> snwh, the android tool should work (i forgot the name)
<ogra_> should be somewhere in /system/bin ... (you need to use the full PATH)
<snwh> screencap
<ogra_> screencap iirc
<ogra_> yeah
<snwh> i was under the impression that only worked with surfacefllinger
<barry> ogra_: here's a thought: did anything in the gpg stack change during the interesting time frame?
<ogra_> the steps i gave you above switch you toi surfaceflinger ;)
<ogra_> barry, not that i remember, but let me check
<snwh> ogra_ ah
<ogra_> barry, though i still never see the request to even download the blacklist file arrive in the u-d-m logs
<ogra_> barry, last gpg upload was end of last month
<ogra_> i think we would heard about issues before the 7th if that would realyl cause anything
<ogra_> 28 Jan 2014
<barry> ogra_: that's really interesting.  what it looks like from the s-i side is that a blacklist file *did* get downloaded, but it's signature check failed, so s-i then thinks "well, maybe the image-master key is old" since that key has to sign the blacklist.  so then it tries to get a new image master, which appears to succeed, only *its* signature also fails.  there's no place else to go, since the image master has to be signed by the
<barry> archive-master, and that's preloaded on the image
<zhanx> Any tips for compiling for a intel z2560 soc? Broke my laptop, want to use touch on my tablet
<mandel> barry, I'll bevery surprise is the qnetwork change, it changes nothing in th enetwork stack
<barry> ogra_: possibly.  that was during the london sprint, but it does seem a little early
<barry> mandel: okay, so we don't think that's it
<mandel> barry, I have a new build of udm with more logs for you :)
<ogra_> barry, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20140129.changes
<barry> mandel: cool.  i am starting to sniff a scent though :)
<ogra_> gpgv and gnupg
<ogra_> thats the last time they changed
<mandel> barry, yep, I saw the backlog :)
<barry> ogra_: let me take a peak at the change log.  looks like a new upstream version
<ogra_> it is
<ogra_> blame mdeslaur if it broke :)
<barry> :)
<mdeslaur> what?
<mdeslaur> what'd I do?
<ogra_> mdeslaur, we're trying to find why people cant upgrade anymore
<barry> i think i understand how we're getting the traceback now, but not why
<ogra_> mdeslaur, but the first reported incident with this error is from the 7th ... i'm pretty sure its not your gpg upload
<barry> mdeslaur: so, we're trying to figure out why phone upgrades fail now and then.  my latest thinking is maybe something in the gnupg stack has changed, though it doesn't make sense that signature checks would only fail intermittently
<barry> right, it's probably not, but still
<mdeslaur> ogra_: thanks for the heart attack :)
<mdeslaur> barry: ok, let me know
<ogra_> mdeslaur, awake now ? :)
<mdeslaur> hehe
<barry> gnupg 1.4.16 upstream was apparently released mid december
<frecel> I know that I have phablet-tools installed but I get command not found when I'm trying to run ubuntu-device-flash
<frecel> strange
<ogra_> barry, well, if it would be not properly backwards compatible, the server signs with whatever version it runs ... precise i bet
<ogra_> and we use the trusty version to decrypt
<ogra_> but i guess there would be tons of other issues if there was any such incompatibility
<barry> that's what i'd think.  it smells like we're close but not quite there
<ogra_> frecel, ubuntu-device-flash is in a differnt package ... check the install wikipage
<mandel> barry, I lied to you, waiting on the armhf build => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/+recipe/ubuntu-download-manager-daily
<barry> mandel: cool
<mandel> barry, but we have labeled lines for download, logs for when downloads are created and tracing of all methods
<mandel> barry, we are really going to know what udm is doing
<popey> frecel: you on 14.04?
<frecel> popey: 13.10
<frecel> nvm, ubuntu-device-flash is it's own package
<mandel> barry, and auth errors being raised
<mandel> barry, I cannot think of any more logging to add
<frecel> In my defenese I have a fever so my brain doesn't really work
<frecel> I'm going to be doing stupid things today
<barry> mandel: the most important things are: can we easily find the relevant log file (more difficult now with google logging naming scheme unfortunately), and can we correlate udm log entries with si log entries
<mandel> barry, I have fixed logging files, we can now see the time when the log was created, the logs are labeled with time AND download id so we can trace what happened in each step and we can see the creation method call
<barry> mandel: cool.  i'll take a look as soon as possible.
<balloons> popey, does loudspeaker work for you on image 180?
<jibel> mandel, does it mean you'll have a new build to test soon?
<mandel> jibel, yes, waiting on the builder atm
<mandel> jibel, https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/+recipe/ubuntu-download-manager-daily
<jibel> mandel, if it's an arm builder, I've enough time to have dinner ;)
<jibel> mandel, failed to build on arm BTW
<mandel> ahghg
<ogra_> Build finished at 20140213-1851
<ogra_> FAILED [dpkg-buildpackage died]
<popey> balloons: no devices on 180 yet, updating now
<balloons> fails for me, see if you can confirm
<mandel> jibel, *** quemu => qemu: uncaught target signal 6 (Aborted) - core dumped
<ogra_> mandel, use the canonical-arm-dev PPA ... :P
<ogra_> mandel,  its a native builder
<jibel> mandel, I'll be back later, ping me when there's a deb ready
<mandel> jibel, will do
<frecel> balloons: the loudspeaker works for me on nexus4 r180
<balloons> frecel, when you start a call does it display the icon with an X?
<balloons> then pressing the X displays the volume icon? For me tapping the icon simply resets it to an X over and over
<popey> balloons: i have audio on 180
<popey> in music app
<balloons> popey, frecel I'm talking about speaker mode in a phone call
<popey> oh
<frecel> oh
<frecel> let me put a sim card in :D
<balloons> lol :-)
<popey> yup, works here
<balloons> k, see above for what happens on mine. It's a fresh flash.. I flashed the 4.3 radio stock again as well
<balloons> I feel like this phone is just unhappy
<frecel> works on my phone too
<barry> ogra_, mandel we have another clue: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6927127/
<barry> note the m5 checksum on keyring.tar.xz{,.asc}!  two problems, they are identical, and they also don't match the blacklist on the server
<mandel> barry, that is good, I mean, it is not network related something I was very scared off
<ogra_> barry, what about: [systemimage] Feb 13 19:06:14 2014 (2066) No signed blacklist found
<balloons> ty frecel and popey
<frecel> popey SmartFart works for me just fine in r180
<popey> hmm
<ogra_> frecel, heh, thats also my preferred test app for click installs
<popey> haha
<popey> ogra_: its frecel's app â»
<ogra_> annoys the hell out of my GF :)
<barry> ogra_, mandel: so.  what happens is this: si requests the blacklist.tar.xz and .asc files from the server as you can see in line 1 and 2, with the local path specified.  once the group download finished (successfully, apparently), it checks the signatures against image-master.  when that fails, you see the "no signed blacklist found" error in line 7, and *then* it prints more details of the error, including exactly what we needed.  the
<barry> paths and checksums of all the files involved in the sig check
<barry> ogra_, mandel this clearly tells me that blacklist.tar.xz{,.asc} are apparently downloaded successfully, but in reality are corrupt
<ogra_> weird
<barry> the rest of the cascading errors make perfect sense from there
<ogra_> how do you know it is actually downloaded
<barry> because the SignatureError details include the local file system path and md5sum of whatever it found at that path
<thomi> cyphermox_: robru: could one of you fine gentlemen please run the 'Merge & Clean' job for silo 6?
<mandel> barry, so, if we manually download the files, can we see if their signatures match? to ensure that it is no udm doing a bad download
<robru> thomi, on it
<thomi> robru: thanks, I realised this was the wrong channel after I sent that, sorry
<cyphermox_> robru: ok
<barry> mandel: sure. you can verify that on a desktop.  wget them and unpack
<barry> you see something very similar when it tries to get the new image master:
<barry> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6927172/
<barry> note the *same* checksums on the signature error
<barry> so what the heck is d41d8?
<barry> now, the rest makes sense: no valid image master key, so the only thing happening next is the archive master being bad, but we cannot download it.  we've reached the end of the line with nothing more and thus we fail
<barry> the ui error is a bit misleading, but ultimately accurate. that can be improved, but it's not the root cause
<barry> the root cause is that the files downloaded are somehow corrupt.
<barry> next, i'm going to instrument si to preserve the corrupt files so i can try to see what they actually are
<barry> (they get deleted when the failure occurs)
<mandel> barry, yes, it is interesting to know what they might be.. they prefix in the checksum.. is weird
<barry> mandel: at the very least, the fact that the .xz and the .xz.asc are identical is a bad sign
<frecel> I noticed that SmartFart doesnt show up when I do click list
<mandel> barry, yes, I'm wondering, is udm downloading an error page?
<mandel> that would be super weird..
<barry> mandel: oh, you're going to love this:
<barry> >>> hashlib.md5(b'').hexdigest()
<barry> 'd41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e'
<barry>  
<barry> those are the hashes of empty files
<mandel> hahahahahahaha
<mandel> barry, ok, that explains it
<barry> mandel: thought: do you flush your output buffers before returning a successful dbus signal?
<mandel> barry, yes, 100% sure
<barry> *you or qt5network5
<mandel> barry, let me check that part of the code
 * pmcgowan watches with much interest
<barry> mandel: so that's the question.  why are both files empty?
<mandel> ogra_, huge favor, can you look the last time udm was updated?
<ogra_> sure
<barry> and now of course, the second time around, all the files are fine
<barry> time to reflash
<ogra_> 19 Dec 2013
<ogra_> mandel, ^^^
<mandel> ogra_, ok, long enough :)
<ogra_> yeah
<frecel> why does click list only list core apps?
<mandel> ogra_, barry I can see errors when trying to download via udm that file from a desktop => http://paste.ubuntu.com/6927242/
<mandel> ogra_, barry and that error, the 203 is QNetworkReply::ContentNotFoundError
<ogra_> weird
<ogra_> ERROR::203
<barry> mandel, ogra_, stgraber: could we possibly be seeing an intermittent server error?
<barry> maybe the client is all happy, but the server is misbehaving occasionally?
<ogra_> 203 smells a bit like that
<barry> maybe stgraber can check the server logs
<ogra_> "The server successfully processed the request, but is returning information that may be from another source"
<ogra_> is the exact definition of 203
<barry> wtf? ;)
<stgraber> barry: can't access the logs, sorry
<barry> stgraber: who manages those servers? is?
<stgraber> yep
<ogra_> wget'ing https://system-image.ubuntu.com/gpg/image-master.tar.xz works fine
<barry> are we being mitm?
<jcbjoe> anyone using  n7 ubuntu touch as a everyday driver ?
<mandel> barry, ogra_  no, that is probably my network in that error, I just did a udm download of https://system-image.ubuntu.com/gpg/image-master.tar.xz locally via udm and was ok
<ogra_> barry, heh, that would be pointelss at the current state
<ogra_> i doubt any hacker would make that effort
<barry> ogra_: i've never seen wget failing.  but i wonder if udm/qt5network5 can handle a 203?  it's supposed to be identical to a 200
<stgraber> and I'd expect udm to do ssl validation which would happen way before we get a return code
<mandel> ogra_, would be lovely
<mandel> barry, that 203 is an internal enum from qt, ignore the number
<mandel> barry, ogra_ we are dealing with 200 + correctly
<barry> mandel: ok ;)
<ogra_> phew
<stgraber> the problem here is that udm is considering a 2XX code as an error, all 2XX are "succesful"
<barry> yeah
<mandel> barry, yeah, crap from qt, sorry
<mandel> stgraber, nah nah, that is not the issues
<stgraber> ok :)
<mandel> stgraber, that stdout is from an enum
<mandel> they used 203 as a 404 when my network was funny
<barry> but now we know that for some reason udm is returning a success signal, but the files on disk are empty
<mandel> why, cause they are xx
<mandel> barry, correct, and testing in my machine is returning valid files from udm
<barry> so i have one more test to run.  i will preserve the corrupt files on error and throw a fatal error right at the first failed validation.  then i can poke around and see what happened
<barry> remember too that these are *intermittent* errors
<barry> not easily reproduced
<mandel> barry, do you have access to a phone
<stgraber> anyway, the server isn't clever or anything, it's just a standard apache2 serving static files, so usually those files are there or they're not :)
<barry> mandel: no, but i do have a tablet
<mandel> barry, ah, could I give you instructions to branch udm and compile it there, the deb build takes for ever and is giving me qemu errors
<mandel> ogra_, I have no arm machine to use to build this but in a chroot  :-/
<barry> mandel: yeah, i have an armhf chroot, but it's sloooooowwwwww
<mandel> barry, but you have a nexus7!
<mandel> barry, is a lot faster!!!
<ogra_> mandel, the canonical-arm-dev PPA doesnt help ?
<barry> nexus 10, and yeah it might be.  i haven't actually tried to build anything on it
<ogra_> its is the fastest thing we have
<ogra_> (same as the buildds)
<mandel> ogra_, so, I have to create a recipe there or dput the deb package?
<ogra_> just dput
<pmcgowan> mandel, barry looks like good sleuthing, any smoking gun on what may have recently changed in this regard?
<ogra_> pmcgowan, libqt5network5
<ogra_> changed on the 6th
<ogra_> we actually had that on the radar already
<pmcgowan> and how did it change? has anyone tracked it  down?
<mandel> pmcgowan, I have look at the changelog and there are comments about other parts of qt but not the network
<ogra_> stgraber, is there no round-robin or something in front of it ... i.e. like cdimage ?
<pmcgowan> I asked Mirv but he must have been off already
<ogra_> yeah, late here
<pmcgowan> was wondering if any chance the server side changed
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_ I wouldbe very surprised if it is qt, really I have read the src and looks like no one changed that in a long time
<ogra_> IS could tell i guess
<stgraber> ogra_: not that I'm aware of, I only push to a single server
<ogra_> ok
<stgraber> and that's calingi which is the only server returned by system-image.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> there were definitely some machine upgrades recently
<ogra_> but system-image is so new that i would expect it to be on precise since day one
<stgraber> yeah, callingi has always been precise
<stgraber> (well, taking IS's word for it, I don't have ssh to that one)
<ogra_> probably it has a loose cable
<ogra_> *g*
<barry> ogra_: :-D
<barry> "have you power cycled your modem?"
<ogra_> :D
<pmcgowan> go to the start button...
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I could not reproduce it all day here btw
<barry> so far, in 3 tries, i've consistently gotten it right after a flash --bootstrap to r174
<ogra_> after the one fix you mean ?
<ogra_> barry, try 169 next time
<barry> ogra_: okay.  one more test on r174 with some custom packages, and then i'll try that next
<mandel> ogra_, barry only thing I can think off http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtnetwork/qnetworkreply.html#downloadProgress is never emitted (I need to check the code) when the download is completed and I must read the reply data on finished
<ogra_> would be intresting if 168 exposes it actually
<mandel> ogra_, barry could be a problem because in theory if that signal is used there is no need to read all
<mandel> the data on finish, sorry
<ogra_> hmm, qint64 ...
<mandel> ogra_, it can't be that, we are working with tiny files
<ogra_> yeah
<mandel> that is why, if the fir in a single request with no progress.. but in my machine it works
<barry> ogra_, pmcgowan okay, i am noticing something else quite interesting.  it seems like the ui starts a check for an update available when you open system settings, even before you hit the Updates icon.  i can't see how that could affect things, but its unexpected
<ogra_> barry, right, i have seen the code for that
<pmcgowan> barry, yeah, there actually is a race there, I filed a bug in the UI, it can report software up to date when its not
<ogra_> barry, it is actually supposed to show a notification
<barry> okay, so that's a known bug, not expected behavior?
 * ogra_ has never seen one)
<pmcgowan> if you go to updates before it finished the check on the main page, the update page reports the wrong status
<ogra_> aha, i see it for the first tome now
<ogra_> it actually adds a row at the top of system-settings
<pmcgowan> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1279006
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1279006 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Updates reports Software is up to date when update is available" [Low,New]
<pmcgowan> not sure why its low
<ogra_> hmm, tapping it only gets me a spinner
<pmcgowan> check your crash dir
<mandel> ewewe that bug should be at least medium
<pmcgowan> I thought I submitted it as high
<pmcgowan> guess they are waiting to triage it
<ogra_> system-image-dbus ... as expected
<pmcgowan> right
<ogra_> and i have one running process
<ogra_> damn ... would have been clever to check before tapping the update button
<ogra_> i wonder if the "always download on wlan" might probably start a concurring download here
<pmcgowan> hmm, thats interesting
<ogra_> i have that on on all devices
<pmcgowan> I have not seen the problem since I turned that off
<ogra_> has it ever worked for you before ?
<pmcgowan> yes
<mandel> pmcgowan, but, we only have one s-i and one udm, for udm to download two files in parallel is no a problem
<ogra_> i have that on on all my devices since forever
<ogra_> never had something pre-downloaded
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_ sorry for my language F*CK
<pmcgowan> mandel, ?
<ogra_> heh
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_ follow me here I have an idea
<barry> ogra_: as long as you don't check *again* when they do tap Update :)
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_, barry s-i is the ONLY user of a feature in udm that allows to tell it to download to an specific location, ideally we only have on s-i so there is no issue, but if we have to s-i on is going to step on the other one when trying to write on the same location and udm does nothing to prevent it
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_, barry the latests intance gets the finished signal and is happy and then the second group download starts and steps on the files making this mess
<ogra_> oh !
<mandel> we get a bad checksum and we go nuts
<stgraber> hmm, two running s-i-dbus would actually explain the symptoms
<barry> mandel: you might be on to something
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> that smells about right
<barry> would dbus activate two s-i-dbuses at the same time?
<stgraber> barry: can we pretty please add a lock, I can't possibly think of a case where we'd want it running twice.
<mandel> barry, ogra_, pmcgowan the change in system settings made this happen
<Laney> Do you mean that CheckForUpdates actually starts the download in the auto download case?
<mandel> barry, it would have one, but you will be dealing with two requests via sbus
<ogra_> Laney, it should, no ?
<barry> Laney: yes, it does
<pmcgowan> ffs
<cwayne> mterry, ping
<barry> but internally, s-i-dbus has a flag that it sets when checking for updates, so it should not be possible to get one process to check for two updateds at the same time
<ogra_> barry, but there are still messages in the dbus queue
<mandel> barry, dbus can be evil in this case
<barry> ogra_: if the same s-i-dbus process gets a CheckForUpdate while a check is already happening, it just ignores the second one
<ogra_> so the s-i -> udm communication goes astray
<barry> but that doesn't preclude dbus from activating more than one process (which i thought dbus activation already prevents)
<ogra_> oh, look, i just got a "timeout error" inmy update manager
<mandel> barry, ogra_ not at the same time, but one after the other very fast and udm stepping on the files
<Laney> Not if the name isn't on the bus
<ogra_> first time i get an error message at all there
<Laney> You should have some single instance stuff, like bail out if you can't own the name
<barry> Laney: we can definitely drop a process lock and bail if the lock is acquired (with sufficent timeout for stale locks.  i already have a *very* safe and well tested library for that elsewhere :)
<pmcgowan> ogra_, I just turned auto update on wifi back on and reproduced first time
<mandel> barry, ogra_ the issues here is, I'm always stepping on the files as a feature for si, I'm going to think a way on at least logging that possible case where I step on a file
<ogra_> pmcgowan, awesome !
<mterry> cwayne, hi
<mandel> pmcgowan, ogra_ barry that is starting to look more and more like the bug..
<ogra_> yep
<pmcgowan> yep its a race of some sort
<barry> yep, and it makes sense to have cropped up around the time of the ui change
<ogra_> yeah
<mandel> BRAVO!
<pmcgowan> so who has the fix?
<ogra_> :)
<barry> okay, i agree it's entirely plausable.  i'll add the single instance lock and test that here
<mandel> pmcgowan, you do, turn it off ;)
<mandel> hehehe
<pmcgowan> lol
<ogra_> :)
<Laney> barry: Can't you do it entirely with dbus?
<Laney> Request the name and if you fail because it's already owned by another process (s-i-dbus), exit
<barry> Laney: possibly.  i have to do some research
<mandel> barry, ogra_ I'm going to improve the way udm steps on things.. in the case of si providing the local path, I write in a diff location and then try to step on the old file
<Laney> That'd be a pretty standard way of doing it
<barry> Laney: cool
<ogra_> mandel, ++
<barry> mandel: yes, write to a .tmp file and then atomically rename once done
<ogra_> asac, FYI ^^^
<mandel> barry, ogra_ worst case I step on it will a full entire file :)
<Laney> http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/doc/tutorial.html#the-unique-instance-idiom hahaha
<ogra_> seems we got the issue
<barry> that way it's impossible for the client to see a partial file
<barry> Laney: ha ha #FIXME :)
<barry> (follow the link :)
<ogra_> that was a very nice two day team effort btw :)
<barry> i will utsl
<pmcgowan> Laney, is there still a bug in settings that it starts the dowload on the check or did I miss something
<barry> ogra_: let's not celebrate yet, but yes, if this turns out to be it, it will be a beautiful example of teamwork!
<Laney> pmcgowan: I guess maybe it's intended?
<ogra_> yeah
<Laney> barry: http://lethalman.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/single-app-instances-python-and-dbus.html something like this
<barry> so i see two action items: 1) barry to add a single instance protection; 2) mandel to download to a temp file and atomically rename
<pmcgowan> Laney, I am unclear on the design, auto dowload but only when I go to the update page?
 * barry reads
<pmcgowan> Laney, there is another symptom I reported in bug #1279006
<ubot5> bug 1279006 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Updates reports Software is up to date when update is available" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279006
<mandel> barry, yes, sounds good to me, an atomic write in my side should be very helpful, adding a bug to udm
<Laney> pmcgowan: I guess that setting means that you get auto downloaded in the background ideally
<Laney> So next time you visit system-settings you don't have to wait for the download
<asac> ogra_: so whats the exec summary?
<pmcgowan> thats what I would think
<Laney> But nothing triggers that atm apart from something asking system-image to check for updates
<barry> Laney: i think i want to do it a little differently, but that page looks like it has the clue.  i think instead we exit if we can't get the unique name
<ogra_> asac, UI change that triggers that the bottom pieces step on each others toes
<Laney> barry: yep
<barry> awesome
<asac> ogra_: hmm. can you rephrase :)?
<asac> ogra_: is the bug fixed :)?
<Laney> pmcgowan: It's possible there's a bug if the page in system-settings doesn't start the download itself
<Laney> if it comes in while it's in progress
<pmcgowan> right
<Laney> but we can see once this current issue is fixed I guess
<pmcgowan> same race different symptom
<ogra_> asac, no, but the cause is found
<Laney> it's not a race in that case
<ogra_> asac,  and there are ideas how to fix it
<Laney> just... incorrect assumptions
<ogra_> asac, <barry> so i see two action items: 1) barry to add a single instance protection; 2) mandel to download to a temp file and atomically rename
<Laney> but we'll see
<pmcgowan> Laney, well, its till downloading and has not installed yet, but says system up to date
<mandel> #bug 1279965
<ubot5> bug 1279965 in ubuntu-download-manager "Writes to custom file locations are not atomic" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279965
<Laney> ya, but nothing is racing, it's just that the panel can't talk to the backend properly (is my theory)
<pmcgowan> Laney, but we really want what you said, find the update and download in the background
<Laney> once the dust settles we can see what's left properly
<pmcgowan> Laney, I think I wil lbug that feature since Automatic on wifi implies it
<Laney> if that is the desired behaviour something will have to trigger s-i to do it
<Laney> pmcgowan: okay, I'd file that one against system-image in the first instance
<pmcgowan> Laney, but there is no daemon running right?
<Laney> don't think so
<asac> ogra_: single instance? what instance is that? a process that we spawn?
<ogra_> asac,  system-image-dbus
<asac> ogra_: ok. so 2. is something very basic and surely should be done if it didnt happen yet
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> asac, in any case we seem to be un-stuck an know where to go with a fix now
<ogra_> *and
<asac> in general, i think its key that we dont stop here, but now do the homework required to ensure that users with our devices will never have a broken upgrade
<barry> and i will add a bunch of new tests around this very scenario
<ogra_> asac, yep we have some planning for an OTA test already
<ogra_> asac, i'll write that down tomorrow
<asac> guess thats a pretty tough task, but needs doing
<asac> barry: thanks for nailing this down!
<ogra_> its not that tough
<ogra_> we can cheat
<Laney> the upgrades themselves were pretty well protected
<asac> mandel: you too!
<Laney> you got errors instead of trying to upgrade to some broken thing
<pmcgowan> the upgrade was not broken, the code to get them was
<ogra_> asac, pmcgowan as well, without him rolling back system-settings we wouldnt have had the ise
<ogra_> *idea
<Laney> the breakage on the other image earlier though, that was an upgrade failure
<asac> ogra_: system-settings?
<asac> rollback?
<barry> and actually, the upgrader was working properly, ensuring that we don't try to apply a corrupted upgrade
<ogra_> asac, yes
<ogra_> asac, i noticed that system-settings was updated around the time we faced the issue first, pat rolled back the packages and noticed the issue goes away
<ogra_> asac, that got us on the right track in the end
<mandel> asac, well, regarding 2.. it is a system image update specific feature, udm just steps on files when requested.. and ergo the error, fixing asap )
<mandel> :)
<ogra_> asac, the bug was always there, but only system-settings changes exposed it
<barry> stgraber: we finally have a test case for the ci-train :)
<mandel> barry, we should just blame setting for requesting two updates at the same time ;)
<ogra_> haha
<barry> yeah :)
<asac> which component drives this upgrade activity?
<barry> system settings starts it off
<stgraber> barry: let me know when you have a branch proposed for merge in lp:~ubuntu-managed-branches/ubuntu-system-image/client :)
<asac> (wow big lag here - i get lines in bulks)
<asac> system settings is UI/qml?
<ogra_> yeah
<barry> stgraber: will do!
<mandel> asac, ogra_ tests in system settings are.. lacking
<ogra_> asac, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/165161694/ubuntu-system-settings_0.1%2B14.04.20140203-0ubuntu1_0.1%2B14.04.20140206-0ubuntu1.diff.gz thats the change
<ogra_> mandel, they are there but were failing
<ogra_> i think that got fixed today
<ogra_> (there was a crash for a while that made not all being run=
<ogra_> )
<asac> barry: what does system settings call to kick this off? do we have an upgrade manager service that then does all the steps?
<barry> asac: system-image-dbus
<ogra_> mandel, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/178:20140213:20140115.1/6562/ubuntu_system_settings/
<barry> and it feeds signals to indicate progress
<asac> barry: and that calls the download manager?
<ogra_> mandel, 49 tests since today
<barry> asac: correct
<ogra_> mandel, http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/176:20140212:20140115.1/6550/ubuntu_system_settings/
<ogra_> 5 tests yesterday
<ogra_> (and a crash)
<asac> barry: ok so system-image owns the activity
<barry> asac: it's the middle man
<mandel> ogra_, it is an improvement
<asac> barry: can the UI recover? if i kill and restart it while upgrade is running?
<ogra_> yep
<ogra_> asac, the UI spins eternally until system-image-dbus retires
<barry> asac: yes, it should be able to
<ogra_> (atm that is)
<asac> try that :0
<barry> ogra_: one thing we may want to think about is better detection of error states to have s-i-dbus commit suicide earlier in those cases
<asac> if that just shows the nice progress of the still running upgrade etc. it would be cool
<asac> hehe
<asac> anyway.
<ogra_> barry, yeah
<asac> dont worry about me for now
<asac> lets really set some time aside afterwards to think through what we can do to be really bullet and desaster proof in production
<mandel> barry, ogra_ we must find a way to automate this...
<ogra_> mandel, we discussed an OTA test for UTAH yesterday
<ogra_> mandel, i'll write that down tomorrow and see if i can implement it
<barry> ogra_: LP: #1279970
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1279970 in Ubuntu system image "Commit suicide earlier, when error case is detected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279970
<ogra_> perfect !
<barry> ogra_: sounds good
<mandel> ogra_, barry I'd say, lets fix it first because so far it is a wild guess I made thx to pmcgowan it could be something else :-/
<barry> mandel: completely agreed.  let's not break out the champagne yet!
<ogra_> mandel, i doubt it ... but yeah, a fix is needed
 * ogra_ is pretty convinced we are on the right track 
 * pmcgowan is ready to test
<asac> pmcgowan: did you find a way to reproduce this reliably?
<mandel> pmcgowan, asac lets update the bug letting people know the work around, disable that auto update thing from the ui
 * mandel does not know the names of the ui things
<asac> mandel: maybe also update the mail list? i think there were a few folks having troubles.
<pmcgowan> mandel, yep
<pmcgowan> mandel, I can do that if you want
<barry> asac: i will update the si bug and send an email to the list
<barry> then i'll work on my fix ;)
<mandel> pmcgowan, would be very appreciated, you can explain it better
<barry> or pmcgowan or ogra_ can email the list if they want
<mandel> asac, yes, email to the list is a good idea
 * ogra_ happily leaves that to pat ... :)
<pmcgowan> hah ok
<frecel> popey: I pushed the SmartFart click packaget o my phone and installed it with pkcon and it works
<frecel> popey: for the future just assume that my code is flawless and it's your phone that's broken :D
<mandel> barry, I'm going to call it an "early" night, do you need me around or should we catch up tomorrow?
<barry> mandel: heh, yeah, i was up past midnight last night working on this too.  and if i can drive out of the neighborhood tonight i'm going to my medidation class.  let's catch up tomorrow.  g'night!
<mandel> barry, yes, I have been not sleeping much and drinking to much tea to be awake.. and walking to the toilet every 30 mins because of that
<barry> mandel: i've been consuming tea at a prodigious rate too, so i feel your pain ;)
<mandel> barry, hehehe catch you later then! have a  great evening!
<barry> mandel, ogra_, pmcgowan, Laney, asac: here's my thoughts captured in the bug comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1277589/comments/40
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1277589 in Ubuntu system image ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,In progress]
<barry> so now i will mostly ignore irc and work on a fix :)
<pmcgowan> barry, awesome
<omgwtf> got this message INFO:phablet-flash:Once completed the device should reboot into Ubuntu
<omgwtf> but the phone doesn't go past the google logo
<asac> barry: thanks a lot barry!
<omgwtf> phone is a galaxy nexus btw
<omgwtf> any ideas?
<ogra_> barry, yay
<Jumblemuddle> Is it possible to run ubuntu touch on a galaxy s4?
<ogra_> !devices| Jumblemuddle
<ubot5> Jumblemuddle: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<ogra_> check that wikipage ... not sure how well the port is working or maintained though
<Jumblemuddle> Well, I guess that's a no.
<Jumblemuddle> Thanks
<ogra_> well
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9505
<ogra_> that seems to be the device page for the S4
<Jumblemuddle> Ya only the i9505 though, I got a sph-l720 (Sprint 4core variant)
<ogra_> ah
<Laney> barry: nice analysis
<omgwtf> got this message INFO:phablet-flash:Once completed the device should reboot into Ubuntu but phone is stuck at google logo and after that shuts down, did anyone experienced this ?
<ogra_> omgwtf, id the battery charged ?
<ogra_> *is
<ogra_> all nexus devices bahve pretty weird when on very low battery
<omgwtf> yes
<omgwtf> it's not fully charge but it has 70%
<jdstrand> thomi: hey, bug #1255206 is marked 'Fix Committed'. do we have an eta on when it would be on the images?
<ubot5> bug 1255206 in autopilot (Ubuntu) "please include /var/log/syslog" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1255206
<thomi> jdstrand: it's in the images already
<jdstrand> thomi: I'd like to see syslog output to debug http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/177:20140212.1:20140115.1/6557/security/
<jdstrand> is it?
<jdstrand> thomi: am I looking in the wrong place?
<thomi> pretty sure
 * thomi looks
<jdstrand> thomi: can you look at the above url?
<thomi> jdstrand: I am... but.. these aren't autopilot tests
<thomi> or am I missing something?
<jdstrand> that is a good point
<jdstrand> no, they aren't
<jdstrand> hmm
<jdstrand> so, I wonder how I get syslog output in those reports
<jdstrand> thomi: fyi, I'm looking at http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/177:20140212.1:20140115.1/6557/ubuntu_system_settings/, which iirc *is* autopilot, but I don't see syslog there
<thomi> jdstrand: dunno, but you could start thinking about producing a subunit result stream as the output format for those tests, at which point it'd be pretty easy to rig up
<jdstrand> thomi: you lost me at "producing a subunit result stream" :)
 * jdstrand doesn't know what that is
<thomi> jdstrand: so.. there's two issues with your last link...
<thomi> 1) the dashboard isn't displaying test result details for passed tests, so you'll never see it on a passed test, unless someone fixes that
<jdstrand> the 'security' link
<jdstrand> ?
<thomi> 2) there's a bug where autopilot doesn't have permissions to read /var/log/syslog - I'm following up on this now
<thomi> jdstrand: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/177:20140212.1:20140115.1/6557/ubuntu_system_settings/
<jdstrand> ok
<thomi> for autopilot tests
<thomi> for problem (1), we ought to have a conversation with the ci folks - this is probably not too hard to fix
<thomi> for (2), I'm filing a bug now, will let you know when it's fixed
<jdstrand> fyi, I'm not responsible for the tests in ubuntu-system-settings, but was curious if syslog was there, cause if an app wioth autopilot tests fails, we'll want to see if it is because of apparmor
<jdstrand> thomi: awesome, thanks!
<thomi> jdstrand:  it will be :)
<thomi> jdstrand: if you find a failed AP test, you can actually see the empty syslog attachment
<thomi> jdstrand: it's empty because we lack the correct permissions to read the log file on the device
<jdstrand> oh, ok-- only on failures. cool
<jdstrand> ev: hey, so how can I get /var/log/syslog attached to the security tests. eg: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/177:20140212.1:20140115.1/6557/security/
<jdstrand> ev: these aren't autopilot
 * jdstrand wonders if it is in utah
<thomi> jdstrand: actually, it seems it is attached some of the time, see: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/maguro/180:20140213.2:20140115.1/6577/unity8/767070/
 * jdstrand squints
<jdstrand> syslog is in there?
<thomi> jdstrand: yeah - first attachment
<jdstrand> oh, StringException
<thomi> I have no idea why it's called StringException - that's really odd
<jdstrand> yeah-- I envisioned it would be one of the Artificats down below-- like dbus.log or similar
<thomi> jdstrand: that's the plan
<jdstrand> ok
<thomi> jdstrand: right now, the test attachments are just printed as strings
<thomi> jdstrand: we're working with the CI team to show them as links, and do the right thing with the mime typoe
<jdstrand> ah
<jdstrand> cool
<thomi> jdstrand: so we can have video links on test failure pages :)
<jdstrand> that sounds fun :)
<thomi> indeed
<tam> hello
<tam> i got stuck on ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel --bootstrap
<tam> this command do nothing
 * jdstrand looked in ubuntu-test-cases-touch/tests/security, but don't see how to add an artifact. /me waits for ev
<jdstrand> I should have probably asked that in #ubuntu-ci-eng
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-14
<bobkoe> hello
<bfiller> mterry: you around?
<mterry> bfiller, yup
<bfiller> mterry: where does the Launcher read it's favorites from? need to change gallery and camera to click
<bfiller> mterry: I see gsettings but doesn't seem to be wired up
<mterry> bfiller, I believe the defaults are stored in gsettings, but are synced to accountsservice.  Let me confirm
<mterry> hm
<mterry> bfiller, ok.  Looking at plugins/Unity/Launcher/backend/launcherbackend.cpp in unity8 trunk should make things a bit clearer
<mterry> bfiller, so what happens is we look at AccountsService first
<mterry> bfiller, if the initial dummy value of {defaults=true} is there, we look at gsettings
<mterry> bfiller, and that probably gets synced back to AccountsService at some point
<mterry> bfiller, at which point we never look at gsettings again
<bfiller> mterry: makes sense, where does AccountsServices store it's data?
<mterry> bfiller, does that mesh with what you are seeing?
<bfiller> mterry: yes
<mterry> bfiller, /var/lib/AccountsService/users/
<bfiller> mterry: ok cool, thanks
<mterry> bfiller, you can use dbus to talk to it
<mterry> bfiller, or if you are setting up a demo, you could preseed those ini files in that directory
<bfiller> mterry: I think I just need to change the defaults in gsettings, but somehow need to force a sync with accountservice if someone updates
<mterry> bfiller, ah.  Well, you can set AccountsService values for the user to {defaults=true} but that's against policy to change user data in a package update
<mterry> bfiller, probably should use session-migration for that
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Donor Day! :-D
<JamesTait> Is anybody else missing indicator-network on mako using the recent builds?
<davmor2> Morning all
<janimo> ogra_, xnox is the android container the same for all supported nexus images?
<janimo> is the android deb used unchanged across them?
<ogra_> janimo, it is the same container but indeed different content per device
<janimo> ogra_, where do the contents come from?
<ogra_> janimo, ?
<ogra_> janimo, you are the one hacking the android tree more often than me :P
<ogra_> you should know
<janimo> ogra_, not on the official images
<janimo> ogra_, so I know there's the android binary package in the archives
<ogra_> janimo, the phablet.u.c tree gets rolled into the android package which means it builds the img files
<ogra_> timestamp for the checkout is in the deb version
<janimo> ogra_, what I do not understand is aren't different debs needed for the different nexus devices?
<janimo> IIRC there's a tarball of and android system image but I don't know if it's for a certain device only
<ogra_> janimo, no, there are differnt img files needed
<ogra_> the deb ships all img files from a build
<ogra_> (and the zips, but these will go away soon)
<ogra_> janimo, the build essentially loops over the devices in the tree and calls a build for each of them
<janimo> ogra_, ack thanks.
 * janimo should have just downloaded the package and looked :)
<ogra_> then it grabs the resulting .img files and stuffs them in the deb in /usr/lib/android ... (or so)
<janimo> ogra_, is this inlcuded in the livecd/build image scripts? Can a local build override this and supply their own android system.img  easily?
<janimo> within live-build or rootstock-ng even
<ogra_> janimo, have you looked at rootstock-ng lately ?
<janimo> ogra_, never actually
<ogra_> janimo, it ships an installer script that allows you exactly this
<ogra_> janimo, https://wiki.canonical.com/Install_UT_on_4.4.2
<janimo> ogra_, nice
<ogra_> janimo, you can supply your own system.img to the installer
<janimo> ogra_, are you planning on uploading it to trusty?
<ogra_> it assembles a readonly ubuntu-system image on the device (same way system-image.u.c does) out of the generic tarball and the system.img
<ogra_> janimo, yeah, i plan to
<Guest54973> I am unable to install phablet
<doomlord_> anyone tried ubuntu-touch on a nexus 5?
<ogra_> doomlord_, yes, a few people ... there are still issues though
<ogra_> doomlord_, it isnt supported officially, but here is a guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install_UT_on_android4.4.2
<Laney> Where are the latest instructions for using 4.4?
<ogra_> Laney, see my last line above :)
<Laney> ha
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> ogra_: occam?
<ogra_> occam ?
<Laney> wait what
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I'm on /images instead of /drivers
<Laney> wait, oh god, I'm confused
<mandel> sil2100, thostr_ just got a "working" machine, did everything go ok?
<ogra_> Laney, thats fine, its friday ;)
<sil2100> mandel: well, we had problems in distro so the build started just recently
<sil2100> But seems ok now
<mandel> sil2100, ok, at least i did not block you with the machine problems!
<Laney> ogra_: it is called occam on the linked url
<Laney> for some reason
<ogra_> oh, ah ...
<Laney> o hai android
<bashway97> hi
<ogra_> Laney, rebooting into android at least once after the fastboot oem unlock is essential btw
<ogra_> (it sets up the cache partition on first boot after that ... without cache installing wont work)
<thostr_> mandel: it's still biulding
<Laney> ogra_: does flashing android re-lock it?
<ogra_> Laney, might, i never flashed android :P
<cwayne> it shouldnt
<Laney> thought you had to do that for 4.4
<Laney> nah, it's still unlocked
<Laney> bootloader helpfully tells you
<Laney> here goes
<cwayne> pete-woods, ping
<pete-woods> cwayne: hi
<cwayne> pete-woods, hiya, i was wondering how easy it would be to preseed some fake usermetrics stuff for several users
<Laney> soooo can I do system-image updates now?
<cwayne> specifically re: mterry's demo-users stuff
<Laney> oh wait, now I just have a black screen :(
<Laney> NO! it just took a while to come up
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> first boot is awful because click apparmor runs
<Laney> haven't flashed from clean for a while
<davmor2> cwayne: how do
<pete-woods> cwayne: you've really got two options
<pete-woods> cwayne: you could manually create the data on your own machine
<pete-woods> then package up the usermetrics db somewhere
<pete-woods> or you could try and automate that process on first boot
<cwayne> pete-woods, where would that db live?
<cwayne> davmor2, how do wat
<pete-woods> cwayne: the usermetrics db lives in /var/lib/usermetrics/usermetrics6.db IIRC
<cwayne> i assume that's writable by default then?
<davmor2> cwayne: how do? == morning, how are you, nice to see you.......
<cwayne> lol
<pete-woods> cwayne: it's readable and writable only to the usermetrics user
<pete-woods> cwayne: I wonder if you could provide a special build of the usermetrics package with a pre-packaged db in
<davmor2> pete-woods: so in theory you could build up a profile on a device and just copy that db into a build?
<cwayne> how would you do it for different users though?
<davmor2> cwayne: ha good call
<cwayne> dpm, hey, you might wanna check the apparmor profile for reminders, there's a buuuuuunch of denials there
<cwayne> popey, hey, did you log a bug about that phantom sidestage popping up?
<popey> cwayne: 1279582
<popey> cwayne: bug 1279582
<ubot5> bug 1279582 in Ubuntu Reminders app "Launching content hub to add an image to a note on tablet, a content hub window is shown with a blank sidestage window that can't be closed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279582
<cwayne> hah, that was me
<cwayne> i didn't know if you'd logged a more generic one :)
<popey> nope
<popey> will do on weekend
<popey> have borrowed a nexus 10 and keep seeing stuff I need to file
<popey> but I'm stupidly busy today so can't stop to file bugs
<popey> i installed every single app from the store on the n10 and will poke it to death
<pete-woods> davmor2: that would work, yes, you'd need to restart the usermetrics service, though
<pete-woods> davmor2: or even better, stop the service, put the db in, then start it again
<cwayne> greyback_, have you seen bug 1279582 ?  It seems to happen on a bunch of other apps as well
<ubot5> bug 1279582 in Ubuntu Reminders app "Launching content hub to add an image to a note on tablet, a content hub window is shown with a blank sidestage window that can't be closed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279582
<pete-woods> cwayne: you'd have to create the same users on your local machine
<cwayne> and su to them and then run something like usermetricsinput?
<pete-woods> exactly
<pete-woods> cwayne: you could even dump the SQL from the database, so you didn't have to look after a binary sqlite database
<pete-woods> the schema is not going to change (ever)
<greyback_> cwayne: no, but is something I'll have to fix. The WM code is not prepared for these trusted helpers yet
<cwayne> greyback_, it seems to happen intermittently on other apps too (not using trusted helpers), i'll try and see if there's something i can do to reproduce it reliabl
<cwayne> y
<pete-woods> sudo -u usermetrics sqlite3 /var/lib/usermetrics/usermetrics6.db .dump
<pete-woods> cwayne: ^ something like that
<greyback_> cwayne: that would be v helpful, thanks
<cwayne> pete-woods, lovely, thanks
<m-b-o> popey: do you know after how much units.gu() a design should switch to tablet?
<ngatilio> hello
<ngatilio> I have a problem: I don't know how can I publish my apps in Ubuntu Apps Store
<ngatilio> I read the steps but I don't understand the process very well
<ngatilio> hello
<popey> m-b-o: sounds like a question for Kaleo
<dpm> cwayne, oh, hadn't noticed it. Could you dump the denials you've seen somewhere I could have a look?
<Kaleo> m-b-o, I believe the agreed break point was 60gu
<Kaleo> m-b-o, no 80gu
<m-b-o> kaleo: ah, thanks. 80gu makes more sense for me. 60 is a bit narrow
<cwayne> dpm, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6931188/
<ngatilio> please can you help me ?
<popey> thanks Kaleo
<dpm> thanks cwayne, looking at it now
<dpm> cwayne, thanks a lot for the heads up. I think these should not affect the usage of the app, but I've filed it as bug 1280293 to keep track of it
<ubot5> bug 1280293 in Ubuntu Reminders app "AppArmor denials" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280293
<cwayne> dpm, i think some of them might have something to do with setting reminders/alarms
<dpm> cwayne, let me have another look, then, but we're still not using the alarms API. The reminders we set are just a flag in regular Evernote notes
<dpm> jdstrand, could you help me interpret http://paste.ubuntu.com/6931188/ for the Reminders app? It seems to try to access .config/pulse quite a lot, but I'm not sure why
<dpm> Kaleo, do you happen to know how many GUs a Nexus 7 and a Nexus 10 have?
<SonikkuAmerica> dpm: What's a "GU"?
<jdstrand> dpm: seems you need the 'audio' abstraction
<jdstrand> /usr/share/qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras-browser-plugin/assets/multi_selection_handle...
<jdstrand> dpm: what kind of app is this? sdk? html5?
<jdstrand> dpm: sorry, the audio policy group
<dpm> jdstrand, native QML app that talks to the Evernote online service
<dpm> SonikkuAmerica, Grid Unit: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-1.0/UbuntuUserInterfaceToolkit.resolution-independence/#measurement-units
<jdstrand> dpm: can you paste /var/lib/apparmor/clicks/*reminders*json
<dpm> jdstrand, I guess that file is the same as: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~reminders-app-dev/reminders-app/trunk/view/head:/click/apparmor.json ?
<jdstrand> dpm: I just installed on my device 'Ubuntu Click Loader' seems like a weird description
<dpm> jdstrand, I know, we need to change that :). That's the name of the uploader
<jdstrand> dpm: yes. please add '"audio",' to the policy groups
<dpm> jdstrand, but we don't really need audio. We'll have to figure out why it's trying to access audio-related locations
<jdstrand> the other bit is an apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu change I need to make
<jdstrand> dpm: ok, that is the other option :)
<jdstrand> dpm: does it do anything with video?
<jdstrand> that could do it to
<jdstrand> look for qtmultimedia stuff
<jdstrand> anyhoo, I'll fix the other denial
<dpm> jdstrand, ah, we're loading the Camera QML component to take pictures and embed them to notes
<jdstrand> that shouldn't record audio though
<jdstrand> oh
<dpm> the only other thing that we do with media is to use the content hub
<jdstrand> actually, there is a camera click
<dpm> to pick images
<jdstrand> I bet that is what it is
<dpm> jdstrand, ah, yeah, that's quite annoying. I can't deactivate the click
<jdstrand> dpm: does it use an UbuntuWebview?
<dpm> jdstrand, yes, to display notes in html
<jdstrand> ok
<dpm> jdstrand, actually, let me double check, but I think that's the case
<cwayne> ah, that could explain why my camera isn't showing up on n10 from reminders!
<dpm> cwayne, but it's weird that it does show on the N4
<cwayne> yeah
<cwayne> dpm, but i think i tested on the n4 before the latest apparmor changes
<dpm> jdstrand, yes, we do use an UbuntuWebView
<cwayne> maybe it wouldn't work now
<jdstrand> ok thanks, I'll get that last access fixed in apparmor-easyprof-buntu 1.1.5
<dpm> cool, thanks
<dpm> cwayne, I'm on an old image from last week. I'll update my N4 and re-test
<mandel> barry, take a look at the comment from gatox I think is a really nice explamanation of what is going on in terms of the UI
<barry> mandel: in email?  still trying to catch up with the backlog
<mandel> barry, as a comment in the bug
<mandel> barry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-download-manager/+bug/1277589/comments/42
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1277589 in Ubuntu system image ""FileNotFoundError: /var/lib/system-image/blacklist.tar.xz"" [Critical,In progress]
<barry> mandel: i will respond to that via email
<davmor2> barry: ^ I feel fairly smug for my comment that it seemed to hit when the settings app was reporting there were updates I figured it might be locking files but wasn't sure many thanks for confirming though :)
<barry> davmor2: yep!  it was a fun one to figure out.  let's see if it's as much fun to fix :)
<frecel> popey: Is there a reason SmartFart is still not avaliable?
<dobey> INFO:phablet-flash:Device detected as /sbin/sh: getprop: not found
<dobey> ^^ that's not good :(
<ogra_> dobey, not bad either though
<ogra_> just use the -d switch
<dobey> ogra_: well, i presume "getprop" not existing is a pretty bad thing
<ogra_> dobey, thats normal in i.e. recovery mode
<ogra_> (well, getprop is there, but the property isnt)
<bfiller> mzanetti: regarding the gsettings for the launcher..
<mzanetti> bfiller: hi
<bfiller> mzanetti: so for now I have to have the full path to the click desktop file?
<cyphermox_> awe_: https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=urfkill&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=trusty  <-- urfkill for your testing pleasure
<awe_> thanks dude!
<mzanetti> bfiller: not entirely sure if that would work. might do. but let me check the code
<bfiller> mzanetti: I mean, having this works: application://com.ubuntu.gallery_gallery_2.9.1.910.desktop
<bfiller> mzanetti: I've tried it
<mzanetti> ah cool. so then yeah, that's it for now
<bfiller> mzanetti: and what happens when gallery is updated?
<mzanetti> bfiller: you should be able to remove the .desktop even
<mzanetti> bfiller: but yeah. in case of an update it would leave you with a dead icon in the launcher
<bfiller> mzanetti: that's a problem
<mzanetti> bfiller: I know, yes... Will talk with Saviq on Monday and see how to make progress with this situation
<mzanetti> bfiller: jfi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1239750
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1239750 in Unity 8 "Launcher items get "stale" after app upgrades" [High,Triaged]
<bfiller> mzanetti: couldn't the findDesktop() method be smarter? and accept an appid:// and search for the current version?
<bfiller> mzanetti: ah, ok
<bfiller> mzanetti: so I'm going to move ahead with my MR for the shell and default settings then, when this bug get fixed it will solve the update case
<mzanetti> bfiller: I'm afraid doing that in the findDesktop() is what we'll do. But that would mean to chop off the version number here just to have that smartness everywhere we actually use the appId then
<danwest> any chance there is a native email app in development?
<mzanetti> bfiller: 'cause if I just patch the findDestkopFile() in the launcherBackend, I would also add some logic that walks through all the stored and available desktop files just to check if there's a change somewhere
<bfiller> mzanetti: yeah, so url-dispatcher has support for the appid:// url with current_version. might want to check how it's doing it and if we can leverage somehow in the shell
<bfiller> mzanetti: seems shell should support application://<legacy-desktop-file> or appid://<click-package>
<mzanetti> bfiller: we only work with appIds inside the shell
<mzanetti> bfiller: but the appId contains the version number, as per specification. so yeah. we can work around that, but I hoped to find a solution instead of workarounding it all over the place inside the shell
<mzanetti> bfiller: so far it wasn't a really big issue. but you converting your apps now to click packages suffering from this, obviously raises priority on this
<mzanetti> bfiller: I'll try to get it fixed first thing on monday
<bfiller> mzanetti: yup
<bfiller> mzanetti: thanks for the help
<mzanetti> np
<bfiller> mzanetti: also, any ideas about how the AccountsService values get updated?
<mzanetti> bfiller: you mean the version?
<bfiller> mzanetti: meaning, when we land clicks for gallery and camera how do we not break the laucher that will have cached versions that point to the legacy desktop file
<pmcgowan> mandel, barry any fixes I can help test?
<bfiller> mzanetti: as launcher reads favorites from AccountsServices if they are present but that will be stale when we remove the debs for gallery and camera
<mandel> pmcgowan, not yet, at least from my side
<mzanetti> bfiller: again, the appId changes. it's a different app. we'd need to add special code that migrates those values
<mzanetti> bfiller: could be done by a script if we have such upgrade hooks somewhere, otherwise temporary in the launcher code if you think it's necessary.
<bfiller> mzanetti: might not be necessary, guess we can just instruct people to blow away the cached values in AccountsServices
<mzanetti> bfiller: if you start up the "new" app, you'll get a second icon in the launcher.
<mzanetti> bfiller: you can remove the old one via a longpress
<mzanetti> so people wouldn't need to do some cmdline magic even
<bfiller> mzanetti: true
<bfiller> mzanetti: so long as they realize the only way to launch the new app will be through the scope
<mzanetti> yeah... its not nice. I agree...
<barry> pmcgowan: i expect to have a branch/ppa later today.  i'll email ubuntu-phone when it's ready
<pmcgowan> barry, great thanks
<mhall119> nik90: kalikiana: we need somebody to present a U1DB session during app developer week starting March 3rd, could one or both of you do that?
<Laney> awe_: Does it make sense for system-settings to hide 'forbidden' networks in the manual network list?
<Laney> also, we figured out that bug
<Laney> the one where the list is blank
<awe_> Laney, yes... just talking to abeato about it
<ev> jdstrand: sorry, was on holiday. Do you still need help?
<awe_> Laney, when you say forbidden, where does that attribute show up?
<nik90> mhall119: hmm...I will wait to see what kalikiana has to say :)
<Laney> awe_: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/network/ofono/ofono.git/tree/doc/network-api.txt#n181
<kalikiana> mhall119: nik90: if it's somewhat friendly to European time, sure. if you ask me it's about time it gets more attention, I was sad to see google contacts come first ;-)
<Laney> like, would you ever want to show them if you can't connect to them?
<awe_> Laney, thanks...  ack to hiding them
<Laney> or show them but disabled or something?
<Laney> okay, thanks
<awe_> np
<nik90> kalikiana: google contacts?
<kalikiana> nik90: it seems to have been decided sync for google contacts comes first. I'd have liked u1db there
<kalikiana> though I guess we'll have both anyway
<nik90> kalikiana: ah you are referring to the contacts app...lol
<kalikiana> yes
<nik90> kalikiana: well to make you happy clock app is all u1db native :P
<kalikiana> hell yeah
<mhall119> kalikiana: starts at 1400 UTC
<nik90> mhall119: do you have a link to the currently planned session?
<nik90> I only have the link to the old schedule in feb
<kalikiana> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/ looks empty
<nik90> kalikiana: that is the UDS schedule
<nik90> kalikiana: the app devel week had a different link
<kalikiana> hmm
<mhall119> nik90: there isn't currently one planned for U1DB
<mhall119> I'm trying to fix that :)
<mhall119> http://summit.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403/
<mhall119> is appdevweek
<nik90> kalikiana: so what is the verdict? Do you want to host the session?
<kalikiana> I don't mind doing it except never hosted one and Hangouts sometimes kills my wifi net so not sure I'm completely reliable to stream stuff
<kalikiana> it might be "safer" if I'm not the one doing the recording at least, while I don't know wtf is the problem with the wifi
<nik90> kalikiana: How about we both do it? In case you do drop out, I can continue until you get back. But I believe the app developer week is a hangout one meaning live streaming
<nik90> mhall119: is that possible ?  ^^
<jdstrand> ev: are you still on holiday? really I just want to know how to request that /var/log/syslog be attached to the non-AP security tests. eg: http://ci.ubuntu.com/smokeng/trusty/touch/mako/182:20140214:20140115.1/6584/security/
<jdstrand> ev: so, don't let me disrupt your holiday :) feel free to point me at someone else or to file a bug some where
<kalikiana> nik90: mhall119: the main problem is Hangouts may unexpectedly kick me out and kill my wifi for 5-10min - I'm happy to go through questions/ agenda, just I might just disappear at any time
<kalikiana> hard to say if by then I found the problem, since it only ever happens with Hangouts, nothing else
<nik90> kalikiana: I wouldn't mind hosting the session, but I am not so confident about the material as I just started using u1db.
<nik90> kalikiana: that's what I am hesitant about
<kalikiana> nik90: what we can do is prepare a short document before with the agenda, current state, plans. doesn't need to be completely ad-hoc
<kalikiana> and then there's always the "let's first talk about that other thing until the guy gets back"
<nik90> kalikiana: ok..we should also prepare for common questions that we can expect
<nik90> kalikiana: I am willing to work on this with you.
<kalikiana> yeah. I'd find some bullet points useful in any case, to jog the memory on what's important
<kalikiana> that big lump of cheese in my head sometimes only responds if it gets the magic word first :-]
<nik90> I will start drafting a google document with the necessary stuff and share it with you
<nik90> can you msg me your email to share it
<kalikiana> cool
<mhall119> nik90: kalikiana: you guys running it together would be fantastic
<mhall119> these sessions are always easier/more engaging with multiple instructors anyway
<mhall119> mzanetti: ping (also about app dev week sessions)
<cwayne> popey, you around?
<pablomant> hollo, anybody to help me with the ubuntu touch install? maybe the phone does not run it (SAMSUNG GALAXY FAME)
<m-b-o> fginther balloons I'm around if you have questions or something
<dobey> cwayne: ping. kenvandine says you've done a lot of hacking on online-accounts stuff lately. do you know of a way to debug the HTTPS requests for an oauth provider in it?
<cwayne> dobey, hm, i haven't actually touched it in a while, let me try and find some notes on it to see if i can help
<nik90> bzoltan: thnx for the new UI toolkit release! I can imagine the busy schedule you had today :)
<bzoltan> nik90: It was hell of a ride :) whole week
<nik90> bzoltan: would this also make its way to the phone or that's still frozen until the Qt 5.2 transition is complete?
<bzoltan> nik90: special thanks to you for pushing us and filing bugs
<nik90> bzoltan: I am glad it has been updated. Some of my AP tests needed the latest SDK package on 14.04..
<bzoltan> nik90: this UITK will land on the rev184 image
<nik90> bzoltan: Awesome!
<bzoltan> nik90: that was a massive fight ... the quality gatekeeping is really tough... for good reason.
<nik90> bzoltan: I have heard from elopio and others :)
<nik90> bzoltan: I guess a really good way to end the week. Enjoy your weekend!
<winb> I can't get wifi to work on my nexus 4
<winb> what am I doing wrong?
<ybon> winb: which Android was on the phone before install?
<winb> ybon: 4.4.2 that's probably the problem
<ybon> winb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation#Android4.4Radio yep ;)
<balloons> m-b-o, you around?
<m-b-o> yes
<wargle> hiya any ubuntu-touch on nexus 10 users here?
<wargle> trying to follow the instructions but when I run the ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel --bootstrap command
<wargle> the terminal just sits there, no feedback, no nothing, I know there's a "this may take some time" warning, but... how much time?
<wargle> nexus 10 is unlocked
<wargle> usb debugging enabled
<wargle> and adb devices lists it as available
<wargle> running this from a 13.10 machine
<wargle> never mind, seems like it's crap docs, the ubuntu-device-flash doesn't auto detect, you need to pass the -device flag too
<popey> cwayne: wassup?
<cwayne> popey, nevermind, was looking for the latest click for reminders but i just built it instead
<popey> cwayne: ah ok
<popey> fwiw i usually build it with the script in trunk
<cwayne> popey, that's what i ultimately did, but i wasn't sure if there were any untested commits or anything to trunk
<nhaines> Hmm, okay, I just bought a Nexus 5 to replace my Galaxy Nexus.  Following the DualBoot install instructions failed before the Ubuntu installer was installled... so the question is...
<popey> cwayne: there won't be after you test them â»
<nhaines> What's the best way to test which parts of Ubuntu are broken on a Nexus 5 without flashing the phone?  :)
<cwayne> popey, lol fair enough
<popey> nhaines: the one device i have no experience of, sorry
<Tassadar> nhaines: use...another multiboot thingy <_<
<nhaines> popey: fair enough.  I was hoping once I got so far I could just push the 4.4.2-based image.  Hmm.  Might have to read dualboot.sh
<Tassadar> nhaines: there's another multiboot modification, which can handle ubuntu touch on N5, but it's a bit more complex. Touch on N5 works fairly well, except the sound doesn't work
<Elleo> is there any documentation on the link between desktop files and displaying stuff on UT (e.g. detailing why Qt apps need a --desktop-file specified and what it's doing)?
<cwayne> once sound works on n5, im switching immediately
<Elleo> just been having a bit of a poke at libsdl2 now it's got Mir support, but I can't figure out how to let it actually connect to the Mir server
<nhaines> Tassadar: that's helpful, thanks.
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-15
<cwayne> popey, do you have that click by any chance? it seems i must've built it wrong or something...
<cwayne> i get file:///custom/click/com.ubuntu.reminders/0.4.63.2/qml/reminders.qml:23:1: module "Evernote" plugin "evernoteplugin" not found
<cwayne>      import Evernote 0.1
<airking> Hey, phone won't mount
<airking> Everything works fine, but when I plug it into the computer, it doesn't mount
<airking> nvm
<airking> cable I had was power only
<airking> no data
<marfik> Anyone know where the documentation is for the Expansion  Element http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/expansion
<marfik> ?
<nik90> marfik: Hi
<marfik> Hi
<nik90> marfik: The expansion element is currently a WIP. The code is being currently reviewed and if approved will be pushed to trunk
<nik90> marfik: So it should land in the toolkit in the coming week hopefully
<marfik> oh right ok, when is it expexed to be ready?
<marfik> oh right great!
<nik90> marfik: The SDK developer working on it has finished the implementation..just waiting for it be reviewed and then merged to trunk :)
<marfik> will the documentation come along with it aswell?
<marfik> awesome
<nik90> marfik: the documentation will definitely be part of it.
<nik90> s/definitely/is
<marfik> I am currently learning by writing an app with database of physical constants
<marfik> simple but should be useful i hope. Atleast I will use it ;-)
<nik90> marfik: Have you joined the app developer community on google+? There are lots of people there who will help you if you run into issues.
<marfik> Ok, no I haven't will do that now.
<nik90> mhall119: hey I got an sessions idea for the app developer week. Would it be possible to request Florian to host a session on app performance? It would be really useful if he can demo how to improve an app's performance using qtcreator's tools.
<nik90> mhall119: I am sure many developers will appreciate that
<nik90> marfik: https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
<mhall119> nik90: that's a great idea, Kaleo would you be up for that? ^^
<marfik> any advice on generating app tabs from the tables in an sqlite db?
<marfik> Say I have tables named a, b, c, d. I want the app to create tabs named a, b, c, d when it starts. No sure how to proceed though as can't find similar projects?
<popey> marfik: bug 1124071 may be interesting to you
<ubot5> bug 1124071 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "[tabs] Cannot add Tabs programmatically" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1124071
<marfik> Thanks, looks like repeater might be the way to go! Cheers,
<cwayne> popey, hey, so do you have that reminders click by any chance? i seem to have messed up building it somehow...
<popey> cwayne: i haven't built it recently
<popey> cwayne: can you not just get it from the store?
<popey> cwayne: http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/2014-02-15-100001/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.4.63.2_armhf.click mirror
<cwayne> popey, ah, thanks
<sergiusens> I have one
<sergiusens> cross compiled
<cwayne> i built it on the device, and then it seemed to work, but it's not working from the trusty-customized-demo channel
<sergiusens> popey, want new reminders in store?
<popey> sergiusens: what rev is it?
<sergiusens> popey, latest
<sergiusens> popey, well I need you to look at a simple MR coming up :-)
<popey> ok
<popey> so the one in store is current bzr-revno 63
<sergiusens> oh, that's latest :-)
<sergiusens> popey, did balloons get that in?
<popey> 63 is in
<popey> see http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/2014-02-15-100001/com.ubuntu.reminders_0.4.63.2_armhf.click
<popey> (my local mirror of the store)
<sergiusens> popey, geat; I have 3 tiny changes to the cmake stuff to get it fully cross compilable
<popey> ok
<cwayne> sergiusens, if youre gonna update it in the store, pls send me a click when you do
<cwayne> to get it in the -demo image
<popey> yeah, just ping me and I'll test and approve it
<sergiusens> popey, so what's up with the .2 in the version?
<popey> we messed up 63 twice
<ogra_> oooh
 * ogra_ just found http://godoc.org/code.google.com/p/go-imap/go1/imap
<ogra_> probably time to llearn some go
<sergiusens> oh
<sergiusens> popey, yeah, it happens ;-) that's why I test extensively before submitting
<sergiusens> ogra_, you will be happy to know I'm really close to fat packages :-)
<ogra_> nice !
<popey> hmm, did we break audio in 181
<popey> my stallboard app fails to play audio now
<popey> GStreamer; Unable to play - "file:///opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.developer.popey.stallboard/0.1/media/rmsandthevalueofthisisnegative.mp3"
<popey> Error: "No URI set"
<sergiusens> popey, where's your click?
<popey> GStreamer; Unable to play - "file:///opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.developer.robert-ancell.animal-farm/0.6/cat.ogg"
<sergiusens> popey, https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/phablet-tools/buddy-x/+merge/206587 https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/reminders-app/click_x_build/+merge/206588
<popey> Error: "No URI set"
<popey> animal farm is broken too
<popey> Unsurprisingly as mine is a fork of that
<sergiusens> popey, you are not using qt 5.2, are you?
<popey> no
 * sergiusens installs animal farm
<sergiusens> popey, have you tried flashback btw? it's awesome, kudos to nik90
<popey> yes!
<popey> its really nice
<sergiusens> 5 stars if reviews were implemented :-)
<sergiusens> popey, I'm on 184 already; why did you pick 181?
<popey> sergiusens: i have two phones, one on stable, one unstable
<popey> 181 is the current stable
<sergiusens> popey, sintel plays fine
<popey> no
<sergiusens> hmmm, I didn't notice I was on unstable :-)
<popey> those are built in apps
<popey> try an app from the store
<ogra_> music app works fine for me
<popey> yes, again, built in â»
<sergiusens> popey, yeah, animal farm doesn't work
<popey> right, so we broke it â»
<cwayne> ogra_, ping
<sergiusens> popey, let me try some music
<ogra_> smartfart farts fine for me
<popey> music app works fine
<sergiusens> yeah
<sergiusens> might be related to uri handling
<ogra_> cwayne, i have to go out soon, whats up ?
<sergiusens> any recent updates on upstart ?
<sergiusens> http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/20140214.changes
<ogra_> sergiusens, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/upstart-app-launch/0.3+14.04.20140213-0ubuntu1
<cwayne> ogra_, ah, was just gonna ask how difficult it'd be to ad ability to install extra packages from ppa in rootstock
<ogra_> last cahnge
<cwayne> but it can wait :)
<ogra_> cwayne, it does that by default
<sergiusens> cwayne, replace the meta in the ppa ;-)
<ogra_> (one ppa only though ... multi ppa support is on the plan for monday)
<cwayne> ogra_, i mean packages that aren't in the seed
<ogra_> cwayne, oh, not supported yet ....
 * ogra_ notes down
<cwayne> ogra_, i know, i was wondering how difficult it'd be to add it :)
<sergiusens> ogra_, can't they just replace ubuntu-touch in the ppa?
<ogra_> cwayne, if it is urgent you could create a fake metapackage in the PPA
<ogra_> yeah, what sergiusens said
<ogra_> cwayne, should be doable during my monday
<ogra_> together with multi PPA support
<cwayne> ogra_, awesome, thanks
 * sergiusens goes to grab a bite
<cwayne> what about adding a custom tarball to rootstock-touch-install :P
<ogra_> i can add that as well ... but thats for tuesday then :)
<popey> sergiusens: what should I file a bug against do you think?
<ogra_> popey, smealls like upstart-app-launch ...
<ogra_> popey, it had some massive changes last week
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/upstart-app-launch/0.3+14.04.20140210-0ubuntu1 specifically :P
<popey> ok, will file
<ogra_> (and the link i pasted above)
<ogra_> (i guess you need to look up the actual changes for the latter one in the bzr branch)
<n1gh7sh1f7> hello guys and gals
<n1gh7sh1f7> anyone up for a talk? i need a little help
<popey> bug 1280647
<ubot5> bug 1280647 in upstart-app-launch (Ubuntu) "Playing audio from apps via url appears to have broken as of ~#181" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280647
<popey> ogra_: could you confirm if also broken for you
<popey> will do some digging when I get back from dinner
<ogra_> popey, well, smartfart works for me as i said above
<ogra_> music app too
<ogra_> i'll test other apps later ...
 * ogra_ need to get catfood before the shops close
<marfik> If I have some non-user generated data, i.e. fixed data like values of physical constants how would you reccomend I transport that data with an app. SQLite seems not to be a good solution.
<alex_______> Hi if anoyone is there, could you help me understand how developed ubuntu touch is. I have installed on nexus4 and basic thing don't seem to work. For example on browser, I can't type. In terminal I can't type. Apps get turned upside down. Is this normal?
<nik90> sergiusens: thnx for the Flashback mention :-) .. I hope you enjoy using it.
<alex_______> I should say on terminal I can't type "enter" or backspace, which I am reading is a known bug in the latest image.
<nik90> alex_______: that is indeed weird
<nik90> alex_______: typing should work on all apps (exception terminal-app where backspace is broken)
<alex_______> thx, on the browser I see the default google page and I can place my curor in the search input field but I don't see a url bar and when I place my cursor in the input it doesn't open an edit window.
<cwayne> gah, tried to make rootstock-touch-install do a custom tar, now it's not booting
<cwayne> hm
<sergiusens> cwayne, your tar needs to be a full rootfs for that to work
<cwayne> sergiusens, it's applied after the rootfs tar
<n1gh7sh1f7> hi guys, i'm trying to port to lg e975 and i could use a little help
<n1gh7sh1f7> i've managed to smooth out all building errors so far, but the one i'm facing now is out of my reach
<n1gh7sh1f7> anyone care to help me out on this, please?
<n1gh7sh1f7> there's a file in shared_libraries that causes the exit in the build process
#ubuntu-touch 2014-02-16
<jcbjoe> hi all is ubuntu-touch a full os yet or not ?
<jcbjoe> i have a nexus 7 2013 and i would like to try a new os
<jcbjoe> anyone ?
<Manuz> tutti a nanna??
<sergiusens> balloons, hey
<Elleo> popey: did you mention a while back that you made a start on a pure QML app for accessing the amazon cloud reader?
<Elleo> finally getting around to sorting out an erudite port and I figure a pure/mostly pure QML version would be preferable over the current qwidgets based implementation
<Elleo> so if you've already got a start in that direction it might speed things along nicely :)
<Artimidrous121> i am trying to install ubunut touch using ubuntu 12.04 and i keep getting the error ubuntu-device-flash: command not found
<Artimidrous121> how can i fix this?
<Artimidrous121> omg nevermind i feel dumb sudo apt-get install ubuntu-device-flash is working
<Kishor> hi
<Kishor> anyone knows if there is any development on Ubuntu OS for Xperia P
<yyyy> hi
<birka> :D
<popey> Elleo: I don't, no.
<polygonal> is there a way to get strip ubuntu touch down a server-like environment, like the equivalent of "sudo apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop"?
<polygonal> (touch hardware is broken, so unity is just taking up a lots of memory for nothing...)
<Vyom> Alright.. I just heared Ubuntu Touch got EOLed for N7 2012, but then why is the Grouper image listed on cdimage site?
<Vyom> Can anyone please answer my question?
<Vyom> I flahed the gouper images through TWRP Multirom like I always do.. but getting just a blank screen.
<Vyom> I have Nexus 7 2012 Wifi version btw.
<Vyom> so long.. Ubuntu.  -__-
<Vyom> You will be missed.
<VincentInPC> hello, I have some questions about the Ubuntu Touch project, anyone to help me ?
<Elleo> popey: ah, okay
<marfik> Should an "About" section of an app be a popover or a dialog? It's accessed from a button on the toolbar.
<cwayne> ogra_, happy birthday!
<ogra_> cwayne, thanks !!
<cwayne> ogra_, btw i added custom tarball support to rootstock, so you don't have to :)
<ogra_> cwayne, oh ... please make an MP or so then, i'll happily merge it
<cwayne> ogra_, https://code.launchpad.net/~cwayne18/project-rootstock-ng/custom-tar/+merge/206599
<ogra_> ah, good (sorry, havent read most of my mail today)
<ogra_> i'll merge that tomorrow :)
<cwayne> no rush :)
<jcbjoe> umm
<jcbjoe> is ubuntu-touch offical or is everything still in preview ? i have a nexus 7 i would really like to get it on
<jcbjoe> also how is the battery life
<sergiusens> ogra_, oh, happy bday!
<ogra_> sergiusens, thanks !
<sergiusens> ogra_, bier from dusk til dawn?
<sergiusens> cheers
<ogra_> still on coffee ... i got some "desparado" beer yesterday as a surprise ... will try it later :)
 * sergiusens heads out to an 'asado
<sergiusens> awesome
<ogra_> (beer with tequila, i suspect it will taste awful, but we'll see :) )
<cwayne> oh god
<jcbjoe> anyone get that ?
<jcbjoe> is ubuntu-touch offical or is everything still in preview ? i have a nexus 7 i would really like to get it on
<jcbjoe> also how is the battery life
<robert_1> hi guys, i have a problem to receive sms if the sms comes only with 5 numbers
<robert_1> is the sms in the form like this "+491761234567" all is fine, but comes a sms in the form like this "55113" it will not be displayed
<robert_1> can someone please tell me if, or where i can find the sms in my nexus4?
<robert_1> if i receive a sms from a sender with only 5 numbers, the light on the phone goes on and i see the home-screen, further nothing happens.
<ogra_> robert_1, you should see it in the messaging app as well as in the messaging indicator (the little envelope in the panel)
<ogra_> robert_1, which channel is your install on ? is that trusty or saucy ?
<ogra_> (i remember there was such a bug in saucy/stable that has long since been fixed in trusty)
<robert_1> ogra_: hi, i have 13.10 (r101) yes, normal sms i see in the messaging app, but not the sms from a sender with only 5 numbers
<ogra_> robert_1, i would suggest updating to the stable trusty channel then
<ogra_> 13.10 is stable in the regard that it is not moving so developers have a platform to work on apps, but it will also not see bugs like the above fixed
<robert_1> ogra_:  in trusty is it fixed?
<ogra_> robert_1, connect your device with USB, then: adb shell system-image-cli --channel trusty -b 0
<ogra_> yes, there it is fixed
<ogra_> (add -v to the command if you want to see some output, note the download wont show output at all, it takes a while)
<robert_1> ogra_:  thanks, atm i cannot do that, i will make that later today, with "-v" the command is: "adb shell system-image-cli --channel trusty -b 0 -v" ?
<ogra_> yep
<robert_1> ogra_:  thanks again, problem is, i cannot receive my mtan for receiving my shipment from the german packaging station, so my chocolate must wait for me :-)
<ogra_> robert_1, yeah, i couldnt get the approval Id from G+ to get SMS notification to work for the phone
<ogra_> this was bug 1238939 btw
<ubot5> bug 1238939 in telephony-service (Ubuntu) "Incoming SMS with special sender numbers are discarded (e.g. SMS from Skype)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238939
<robert_1> ogra_:  i see you understand me
<ogra_> :)
<manornk> Hi can anyone help me to port ubuntu on Geeksphone Peak
<ice9> does Ubuntu touch support ARMv6?
<frecel> does Ubuntu Touch support grid units in css?
<jcbjoe> is ubuntu-touch offical or is everything still in preview ? i have a nexus 7 i would really like to get it on
<snwh> anyone making an app and need an icon?
<ajalkane> So I have a bunch of click packages that I see with "click install". How do I remove one of them? There's not "click remove" or such?
<ajalkane> * sorry meant with "click list". Installed with "click install" :)
<frecel> ajalkane: I think you can remove them with pkcon
<daker> ajalkane: click unregister $PKGNAME --user=phablet
<ajalkane> frecel: but how? Pkcon remove just says "This tool could not find the installe dpackage ..."
<ajalkane> Doesn't the package name given by "click list" correspond in anyway with what pkcon undestands?
<frecel> My understanding was that click uses pkcon but I would like to reserve my right to be completely wrong on this one
<ajalkane> I respect your rights on that one.
<ajalkane> I did use pkcon mostly to install those though. Just having trouble uninstalling.
<frecel> when I istalled a package with pkcon last time I was able to just uninstall it using phone UI
<popey> yes, remove with click
<popey> as phablet, sudo click unregister com.ubuntu.foo 0.1
<ajalkane> The problem is the installed package does not come up in the ui. Something wrong with the .desktop file I think
<ajalkane> Ok so unregister is enough, thanks popey
 * popey tries it on his phone to confirm
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ sudo click unregister de.djfun.akari 0.1.1
<frecel> popey: I wrote the simon app, but I think there is a problem with how the click events are registered
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ click list | grep akari
<popey> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$
<popey> so that worked
<popey> frecel: interesting. i dont know much about html5, sorry, daker might though â»
<daker> ajalkane: once you install the click package you need to restart unity8
<daker> ajalkane: adb shell pkill unity8
<popey> no, you dont
<ajalkane> popey: the command worked, but files were left behind (ls -ltr /opt/click.ubuntu.com/)
<popey> you can search for the application and find it once installed, you don't need to kill unity
<daker> frecel: ?
<ajalkane> I'm pretty sure I had the icon coming up in installed apps at least for one click package I installed without restarting
<popey> ajalkane: odd, the files were removed for me
<ajalkane> Is it safe to just remove those directories? All's inside those click dirs?
<popey> ajalkane: you used sudo?
<ajalkane> Yeah I'm as root
<popey> oh
<popey> i did it as phablet, using sudo
<frecel> daker: I wrote a Simon app (four colored buttons thing) and it just uses divs with onclick events to register clicks. It works perfectly fine on the desktop and FirefoxOS but on Touch the way it registrs clicks is very inconsistent
<ajalkane> I'm with "adb shell" which logs in as root
<frecel> daker: I will clean it up and throw the package up somewhere so you can test it yourself
<popey> I did:- adb shell, sudo -u phablet -i, sudo click unregister com.ubuntu.foo 0.1
<daker> frecel: do you have the code somewhere ?
<daker> ah ok
<ajalkane> For me adb shell goes directly as root
<ajalkane> so I didn't bother going in as phablet and sudoing
<ajalkane> Well I'll just do a "rm -rf" nuke bomb on those directories and try reinstalling and see what happens.
<popey> ok
<ajalkane> after "adb shell pkill unity8" do I have to do somet magic to get the emulator working again? It's unresponsive
<popey> pass, i never kill unity
<ajalkane> Interesting, seems like unity8 process is still running. I'll give more severe kill command.
<popey> no need
<ajalkane> I'm trying all my options before concluding the recent cmake changes have fuxored the .desktop file
<ajalkane> what might mean that I get in .cache/upstar/application-legacy* named log file for the application I tried running (FileManager compiled from head). And I only get black screen running it
<frecel> daker: I patched what I had to the point where it works and submitted the package to the store
<frecel> it will probably get accepted once popey gets bored of minetest :D
<popey> hah
<popey> frecel: i cant see an app waiting for review
<frecel> popey: Shows up in myapps.developer.ubuntu.com for me. Did I forget about some checkbox somewhere?
<frecel> popey: ok there is a checkbox I missed
<frecel> You should be able to see it now
<popey> ok
<frecel> daker: it's in the store
<frecel> daker: it's called PopeySays
<robert1> ogra_, hi, maybe you remember me, if i do so how you say, i become that http://paste.ubuntu.com/6945905/
<daker> frecel: sorry my phone is under android now, can you share the code if that's possible ?
<robert1> daker, hi, im not a developer or supporter, i need help too :-)
<frecel> daker: sure, but the problem I get only happens when I actually run it on the phone
<robert1> hi guys,  i would like Switch from Saucy to Trusty, i get that http://paste.ubuntu.com/6945905/ can someone please help
<daker> robert1: it seems you do have some network error
<daker> robert1: retry the same command again and see what will happen
<frecel> daker: http://lucil.la/PopeySays.tar.gz
<robert1> daker, same, https://system-image.ubuntu.com/channels.json:NETWORK
<daker> robert1: can you access  https://system-image.ubuntu.com/channels.json in you browser ?
<robert1> daker, yes i can
<robert1> daker, my pc have 12.04
<daker> robert1: not sure i can help with that :( it can be a bug
<daker> frecel: what's not working ?
<daker> the click events ?
<frecel> daker: it works
<frecel> daker: the detection of click events is kinda odd though, it obviously depends on the length of the click
<frecel> daker: and the length it's set for just doesn't feel right
<daker> frecel: the 300ms delay ?
<robert1> daker, is there an other possibility to Switch from Saucy to Trusty?
<frecel> daker: It might be caused by the delay but the problem is I'm having is that when I tap the screen the phone detects the tap but the rendering engine doesn't always detect the tap as a click
<daker> robert1: for the phone ?
<robert1> daker, yes
<daker> not sure i have enough knowledge to help you
<robert1> daker, must be the telephone in "developer mode" for switching from saucy to trusty?
<robert1> daker, aka read-write?
<nhaines> robert1: no, the phone never needs to be in read-write mode for anything official.
<robert1> nhaines, ok, thanks
<nhaines> robert1: the reason here is that the phone is rebooting into recovery and bootloader modes where filesystems are just being entirely replaced.  So no user setting will matter.  :)
<frecel> daker: do you know why overflow: hidden doesn't seem to work for touch?
<daker> frecel: using the HTML5 SDK or just a normal thing ?
<frecel> using HTML5 sdk
<daker> frecel: interesting, can you fill a bug with an example+screenshot https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme/+filebug ?
<frecel> I will look into it more first because I think this is a webkit bug
<daker> frecel: ok
<daker> frecel: if you think it's a bug in the SDK just report it there
<frecel> sure thing
<daker> thanks
<frecel> Speaking of SDK i think some of the divs in templates and the documentation need to be replaced with sections in order for it to be w3c compliant
<daker> frecel: we are going to have a meeting next friday, if you can report your issues/concerns that would be awesome :)
<frecel> daker: should I just report them as bugs?
<daker> frecel: yes
<frecel> I'm not making any promisses but I will try to make time for it
<daker> thank you :)
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-09
<k1l_> studio__: have alook: https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps
<studio__> thanks
<studio__> sorry for my "stupid" questions, but in the moment i try to compare Ubuntu-Touch vs. Android vs. iOS vs. Windows-Phone ...
<k1l_> the questions are not the problem. you not accepting the answers you receive is a problem
<studio__> so, how to fix the problems?
<k1l_> wait till someone fixes the problem or help to fix the problem.
<k1l_> or pay someone to fix the problem :)
<studio__> come on, i thought ubuntu-touch will use same security as ubuntu
<k1l_> studio__: see? you go again into passive-aggressive mode
<studio__> you do not like questions about ubuntu-touch and security :(
<k1l_> studio__: i explained several times not that you are not helping with asking the same question every 10 minutes
<k1l_> its more people get annoyed and dont want to help you fix the problem anymore.
<k1l_> so: what do you want to do to get ubuntu-touch more secure communication choices?
<studio__> so, "i try to help" to show what is missing  !
<k1l_> just asking the same question in here again and again and to blame ubuntu touch and talk bad about is not helping
<studio__> and i am not "agressive" ...
<k1l_> so: what are you going to do?
<studio__> read, i am showing what is missing ...
<k1l_> no
<studio__> no?
<k1l_> you are repeating over and over again what you demand
<studio__> no
<k1l_> you even dont read what i linked to you.
<studio__> compare to jolla, they also have "problems" with a sip-client
<k1l_> you have your opinion and want it your way. and if its not your way you get annoying. sorry but that is the way little babys act.
<k1l_> studio__: so what do you want to do to help ubuntu touch?
<studio__> sure!!!
<studio__> what do you think why i bought the E4.5?
<k1l_> i said before i dont know why you bought the e4.5 at all
<k1l_> the nexus devices are the development devices.
<studio__> because bq told me it will be the first ubuntu-phone
<k1l_> if you had choose an already supported device (like the nexus or other on the linked page) you could use ubuntu-touch already
<studio__> why should i buy a google-phone to use ubuntu-touch? this is nuts ....
<k1l_> because the nexus devices come with an open bootloader and published kernels and drivers
<studio__> so the nexus is using kernel 3.13 or higher?
<k1l_> which nexus? and why kernel 3.13 or higher?
<studio__> is it or not?
<studio__> don't like this question?
<matv1> studio__ why don't you leave? there absolutely nothing constructive about your questions.
<k1l_> ok, enough of you agressive attitude
<k1l_> studio__: you dont have a clue at all. you dont know nothing about kernels, hardware or software development. yet you make a big fuzz and be annoying. so get your  work done yourself and dont bother others because its not going like you want
<studio__> why agressive? just a simple question. you said all is open source ...
<studio__> i understood to use a lower kernel, but why are you so agressive?
<k1l_> i was grabbing some links for you to inform you how you could contribute with bugs or whishlists to get your ideas into ubuntu-touch
<studio__> @matv1, please, gimme a advice ...
<k1l_> but since have a very aggressive and bad attitude i dont linke  them to secure the team of your aggressivness.
<k1l_> and you would not read them anyway.
<studio__> "but since have a very aggressive and bad attitude" i do not have !!! i only have questions ...
<k1l_> so the channel knows you want secure email , secure voice call and secure video calls. you can leave now and see in some time if ubuntu-touch includes that then.
<studio__> what about simple video calls?
<studio__> what about libre office?
<k1l_> studio__: you dont have questions. questions would mean you are open to answers and accept the answers. but you dont accept answers so you just want to state your demands.
<k1l_> we already read that, too
<studio__> ok, gimme an answer about libre office
<matv1> studio__  I am afraid the only advice I can give you is to go away.  k1l_ is right. You should have been kicked a long time ago.
<k1l_> studio__: already answered
<k1l_> we saw your demand for libreoffice, too. so you can leave now
<studio__> did i missed something? where did you answered the question about libre office?
<k1l_> studio__: you can leave now. we saw your demand for libreoffice
<studio__> @matv1, sorry but to kick/ban a user will not answer the question
<studio__> i thought here is "open mind", isn't it?
<k1l_> studio__: where is your open mind?
<studio__> that's the question ...
 * matv1 is ignoring studio__
<matv1> why ppl enjoy trolling i will never understand
<maclesea> Hi, I've recently installed Ubuntu touch on a Nexus 4 - is Ubuntu Touch on the Nexus 4 supposed to be capable of performing the "convergence" feature of booting the full Ubuntu once the phone is connected to a monitor via HDMI???
<k1l_> maclesea: afaik not yet.
<maclesea> bummer :-\  Ok, good to know - thanks :-)
<k1l_> maclesea: at the moment only the ubuntu phone uses the new unity and the new MIR xserver. but for 16.04 that should be standard on the desktop, too.
<nhaines> k1l_: sabdfl says not 16.04.
<k1l_> not 16.04? but when?
<nhaines> When it's ready.
<k1l_> ah ok.
<nhaines> Maybe 16.10?
<k1l_> 16.04 will be packed anyway.
<nhaines> I'm not convinced it's going to be that exciting for anyone not on a laptop or tablet or phone.  But I'm looking forward to it anyway.
<lotuspsychje> is there a way to show new apps and scopes released ontop of ubuntu app store?
<Saleesh> Hi
<Saleesh> i just wanted to know, is there a ubuntu touch version for the samsung galaxy tab 2 GT P3100?
<Saleesh> i found a link which says, it is possible to install ubuntu touch on the tab 2
<Saleesh> but i was unable to get hold of the complete details
<Saleesh> could somebody help with this pls
<lotuspsychje> !devices | Saleesh
<ubot5> Saleesh: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<lotuspsychje> Saleesh: also check the XDA forums for your device
<Saleesh> sure
<Saleesh> thanks :)
<clitjes> popey: Do you know when the porting guide is comming?
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting coming soon... :p
<clitjes> yea but they told me that it would be out last friday ;-)
<clitjes> not that it really matters tho, but I'm so eager to get started :D
<clitjes> do you know although the other one is obsolete, is it still usefull?
<lotuspsychje> wich devices are you trying to port?
<lotuspsychje> clitjes: see if your device is on the XDA forums
<dholbach> good morning
<ulrichard> I read in the news that ubuntu phone is not centered on apps. Last year I read, that android apps can be installed.
<clitjes> lotuspsychje: Ok I will but I would like to follow the official guide from A-Z
<clitjes> ulrichard: I'm also wondering about running android apps
<ulrichard> Can I run a bitcoin wallet app on ubuntu phone?
<popey> ulrichard: there is a bitcoin wallet app in the store.
<popey> ulrichard: https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/org.sambull.bitcoin-app
<ulrichard> popey: That's great. Thanks for the link.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Clean Out Your Computer Day! :-D
<Flexman> whil i like the idea, i don't get the sense of ubuntu touch yet. are there current devices where you can install it without problems?
<k1l> !devices | Flexman
<ubot5> Flexman: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<k1l> Flexman: yes there are. see the devices list. the idea of using ubuntu-touch with the swipe from all sides is quite a different experience to the very similar approach from android and iphone.
<Flexman> k1l: ok, thats three devices
<Flexman> and what's the approach in comarison to sailfish OS?
<k1l> Flexman: that are the development devices. yes. but scroll down
<k1l> i am not familiar with the sailfish OS
<Flexman> k1l: yes, but even the working ports are very experimental. e.g. the version for the Galaxy S2 says "Not working: Calls/SMS". lol
<Flexman> i know it's not the fault of ubuntu that drivers are not open, but it makes things useless somehow
<k1l> Flexman: yes, that is the issue with the ARM section not shipping drivers and with no generic drivers available.
<Flexman> :-( i really hope fore more open phones to come. would be nice if they get as open as computers are
<k1l> its like the pc section in the very beginning, driver wise. or even worse
<Flexman> on the other hand: the normal Ubuntu seems to work via usb-stick on my Surface Pro, so why doesn't Ubuntu Touch?
<k1l> ubuntu touch is based on the new unity8 and mir. the regular ubuntu is still the unity7 with x11 server. the surface is intel pc cpu, so i bet the generic pc drivers work there
<Flexman> ok, so the problem is, that there is just no easy ready-to-install package for usb-stick boot?
<Flexman> concering arm: isn't the fairphone open?
<ogra_> Flexman, there is the "Ubuntu Next" desktop imagfe (which is currently largely the phone UI and slowlky being moved to behave like the desktop of unity7
<ogra_> that should work on an x86 surface i guess
<ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop-next/daily-live/current/
<ogra_> Flexman, no phone is open ... modem, sensor and largely the graphics drivers are usually all fully closed and oyu have to use binary drivers ... even on the fairphone
<ogra_> The manufacturers of these components simply dont open their specs ... there is some reverse engineerig of graphics drivers going on but thats still far from done
<ogra_> (and only for certain sets of these chips weher you actually *can* reverse engineer)
<tsdgeos> Mirv: ping
<Mirv> tsdgeos: pong
<tsdgeos> Mirv: you sure https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1418505 is becaue of 5.4?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1418505 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "QT5.4: Ciboriums scanning sdcard message is deleted but the indicator never turns off " [Undecided,New]
<tsdgeos> i tried vivid alone and i'm getting the same problem
<tsdgeos> Mirv: could you try?
<Mirv> tsdgeos: that's a question to davmor2
<tsdgeos> oh right :D
<tsdgeos> didn't realize it wasn't you that file the bug
<Mirv> if it's on vivid too, then we can lose the qt5.4 tag
<tsdgeos> davmor2: âââ
<Mirv> tsdgeos: there are some such bugs in LP, even :)
<Flexman> ogra_: hm, this is annoying... would it be more open on a x86-phone?
<Mirv> but yes I modified it
<Mirv> davmor2: by the way thanks to tsdgeos landing-005 now has all the previously found Qt 5.4 (runtime) issues fixed
<ogra_> Flexman, nope ... the components would still be the same
<ogra_> there is no open modem at all afaik
<ogra_> not sure if any sensores exist with open drivers, i have not seen any ... there are some GPS chips with open drivers i think but then it depends on the manufacturere if he uses these specific ones
<ogra_> so in the end it always boils down to having to use binary drivers that were compiled against android
<ogra_> (this is not different in sailfixh or firefoxOS btw ... we all suffer the same issue here)
<ogra_> *sailfish
<ogra_> (and we all solved the issue differently :) )
 * Stskeeps concurs
<Flexman> hmm...
<Flexman> and i guess since there are only few manufacturers nowadays you can't feature open hardware
<ogra_> there is no open hardware ... thats the point
<ogra_> if you want to make calls you will have to have a modem
<ogra_> and as stated above, there are no oipen ones
<popey> I went to a talk at FOSDEM about replicant. The amount of work (including desoldering components from a manufactured phone) the dev goes through to get a "fully FLOSS" phone is astounding. And a bit depressing.
<Mirv> tsdgeos: he's not online today so better ask on the bug
<ogra_> so at least this component is closed in any case and you havce to use a closed driver ... if you are a phone manufacturer, why then bother to have open stuff for other bits if that is just more expensive
<Stskeeps> popey: were you in the panel session about this stuff as well where i was in? (lameere)
<ogra_> (which it most likely is, since the components you want to use are simply not the mass market ones)
<popey> Stskeeps: no, i didnt know when or where that was
<Stskeeps> ah, it was instead of a cancelled talk by somebody from FSF or FSFE i think
<popey> i saw an irc ping too late about it
<popey> was it videoed?
<Stskeeps> we had a good discussion about this stuff from different spectrums
<Stskeeps> i hope so
<Stskeeps> we're all so terribly screwed when it comes to this stuff, even on hw level, especially from pov of backdoors etc
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> Stskeeps, were any manufacturers there ?
<popey> btw the readme from john-mcaleely at http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/ should answer your GPL question.
<popey> linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Stskeeps> ogra_: i think somebody who were making allwinner based solutions but that's it
<ogra_> :/
<ogra_> as expected
<john-mcaleely> Stskeeps, yeah. been up for a while (long enough for that README to have bitrot), but I'll put up the latest & greatest shortly
<Stskeeps> alright, i'll take a look
<Stskeeps> curious to see how you guys handle it as well, so :)
<john-mcaleely> Stskeeps, hopefully we can evolve the logistics beyond a tarball, to the same github repo BQ host their android kernels in.
<john-mcaleely> (now we're public)
<Flexman> ogra_: hm. and i guess a small company can't order open hardware parts that are competitive, can they?
<Flexman> or let's say design such thigns
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> even a large company cant ... if they want to stay competitive
<ogra_> cents count :)
<popey> ogra_: how do we enable ssh on the phone these days?
<popey> I need to update the wiki, it seems outdated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#Accessing_the_device_over_SSH
<ogra_> adb shell "android-gadget-service enable ssh"
<popey> ta
 * popey updates wiki
<ogra_> (or from the terminal app)
<Flexman> ogra_: hmm. how about a phone with an old chipset and ArOS as operating system :)
<Flexman> or a C64 phone where the GSM functions technically are connected via User-Port!
<popey> rvr: jibel I did some analysis, I suspect you got the url-dispatcher crash because you didn't refresh the dash when installed r830. If you refresh the dash you do _not_ get the crash.
<popey> rvr: jibel so I would like to argue this is a "pass" for music app, as you've just re-produced an already existing dash bug.
<rvr> popey: I couldn't reproduce the crash after rebooting the phone
<jibel> popey, it'd also means that the crash won't happen when the app is on the image?
<rvr> jibel: I think so
<popey> correct
<jibel> rvr, popey OK to mark it as pass
<popey> thanks guys.
<rvr> popey: Moved the card to passed.
<popey> thanks!
<popey> clear to upload to the store?
<ogra_> Flexman, well, find such a phone and feel free to port ubuntu to it :)
<Flexman> ogra_: why using ubuntu when it could run aros??
<Flexman> but how about the raspberry pi? isn't it more open than some phones?
<ogra_> LOL
<ogra_> no, the RPi is a pile of closed stuff
<ogra_> even needs a binary bootloader blob
<ogra_> if you want an open board go for a beaglebone
<simosx> When I connect the bq E4.5 (Ubuntu Edition) through USB to an Ubuntu 14.04.1, I get the following errors: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10142280/
<lotuspsychje> i've read an article that snappy can be installed on raspberry
<Flexman> ogra_: but there is an arduino phone. also too much closed stuff?
<simosx> lotuspsychje, that's for the new quad-core RPi
<lotuspsychje> ah okay
<ogra_> Flexman, can you imagine running a full OS on an arduino ?
<Flexman> ogra_: sure. CP/M!
<Flexman> call 1231543 /o /q
<Flexman> ogra_: the question is how long these things can be powered by battery, is it?
<Flexman> the universities should do more open hardware projects. unfortunately they even in software things are now using more google & co :(
<tsdgeos> davmor2: when you have time, please re-check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-messages/+bug/1418505 to see if we can remove the qt5.4 tag
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1418505 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "QT5.4: Ciboriums scanning sdcard message is deleted but the indicator never turns off " [Undecided,New]
<simosx> When I connect the bq E4.5 (Ubuntu Edition) through USB to an Ubuntu 14.04.1, I get the following errors: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10142280/
<simosx> â I did a 'reset to factory settings' and now the device shows up as a USB device.
<simosx> My issue now is that it does not show up at 'adb devices'.
<simosx> Should 'adb devices' show the phone?
<tsdgeos> simosx: adb devices is disabled unless you enable developer mode
<simosx> tsdgeos, I enabled 'developer mode'.
<tsdgeos> ah
 * simosx wonders if I should reconnect after I enable dev mode.
<tsdgeos> simosx: try toggling it off and on again, sometimes it gets stuck here for no apparent reason (or reboot) (or reconnect the usb)
<tsdgeos> one of the three things always ends up wokring :D
<simosx> tsdgeos, tried all (toggle off/on, reconnect usb, reboot phone), still does not respond to 'adb devices'.
<jgdx> simosx, what ubuntu do you use?
<jgdx> vivid, utopicâ¦
<ogra_> simosx, and you have the android-tools-adb package installed on your PC ?
<jgdx> simosx, if 14.04, you either need a newer package of ^ or do [1]. But maybe ogra_ can confirm. [1] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10142629/
<simosx> jgdx, I have trusty (14.04.1).
<ogra_> jgdx, eek, no
<jgdx> ogra_, oh :|
<ogra_> dont fiddle wuth usb.ini ... never ever
<jgdx> i had toâ¦ back in the day
<simosx> "android-tools-adb" Installed: 4.2.2+git20130218-3ubuntu23
<ogra_> the android-tools-adb package ships everything you need
<ogra_> proper udev rules and the proper device ID for usb
<tsdgeos> ogra_: you sure you don't need a newer package? i remember also having some issues with trusty not finding the phone, maybe i didn have android-tools-adb
<ogra_> tsdgeos, the PPA has all the latest packages
<tsdgeos> ogra_: right, but is simosx using that ppa?
<ogra_> oh, i would expect so ... :)
 * ogra_ is pretty sure that is explicitly stated on all wiki paes
<popey> simosx: does "which `adb`" show the right adb in use?
<ogra_> heh, right, you might hit the same issue popey hit today
<tsdgeos> without the backquotes, no?
<simosx> I just managed to get it to work by adding the vendor ID into ~/.android/adb_usb.ini. I already have an entry there for my other phone, so it's possible the presence of that file caused the problem. Let's check.
<ogra_> the presence should be fine, adb wont care
<ogra_> but yeah, if you dont use the phablet-tools PPA (which you really should) you might have an old version
<simosx> So, with the vendor ID into ~/.android/adb_usb.ini, the phone is detected by 'adb'.
<simosx> > which adb
<simosx> /usr/bin/adb
<ogra_> what did you get as return vale for popey's command above
<ogra_> "which adb"
<ogra_> ah
<simosx> > dpkg -S /usr/bin/adb
<simosx> android-tools-adb: /usr/bin/adb
<ogra_> fine then
<ogra_> 4.2.2+git20130218-3ubuntu23 is pretty old though
<ogra_> https://launchpad.net/~phablet-team/+archive/ubuntu/tools/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=trusty
 * ogra_ wonders how the android package sneaked into that PPA ... that should not be there 
<ogra_> simosx, add that PPA ... you will surely also want the pahblet-tools package from there for the more conbveninet phablet-shell ... and prehaps for the pahblet-screenshot commands
<ogra_> plain adb shell is painful
<simosx> Just added 'ppa:phablet-team/tools', then 'apt-get update/upgrade'. Now, 'adb devices' shows the phone without the 'adb_usb.ini'.
<ogra_> \o/
<simosx> thanks
<jgdx> cyphermox, did the new nm land in rtm?
<Tm_T> hi ogra, how one recover from forgetting the password of ubuntu phone? I noticed this new BQ Aquaris phone has some recovery boot mode which has factory reset but I'm unsure if that would leave phone in fuctioning state necessarily
<ogra_> Tm_T, i guess thats a question for john-mcaleely
 * ogra_ only knows the surface of the recovery magic modes
<Tm_T> ogra_: thanks, now I have new lead then (:
<Tm_T> john-mcaleely: hi, please take a quick peek to the question above thanks (:
<john-mcaleely> Tm_T, factory reset does what is says on the tin. returns you to out-of-box state
<Tm_T> john-mcaleely: so I will have working Ubuntu? then it's perfect
<john-mcaleely> Tm_T, fully functional ubuntu, yes
<Tm_T> woohoo I'm saved!
<popey> minus a forgotten password
<Tm_T> note to self: never change password when head is not right
<lotuspsychje> popey: nice work on that event app!
<popey> wat?
<lotuspsychje> popey: you got a link to your apps somewhere?
<lotuspsychje> dance events
<lotuspsychje> thats yours right?
<popey> uh, no
<ogra_> Tm_T, it will wipe the world though
<lotuspsychje> holdon lemme get my n7
<lotuspsychje> popey: eventbrite
<popey> oh, yes. thats just a webapp
<lotuspsychje> i like that one
<murali_> Hello there
<Tm_T> ogra_: that's allright, I only have few pictures I did not post somewhere yet
<Tm_T> all just testing
<ricsipontaz> Hi. Can somebody help me? Ubuntu System Settings is fully translated to hungarian language, but the "Rotation Lock" string displays in english.
<ricsipontaz> Translation: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-system-settings/hu/+translate?start=0&batch=10&show=untranslated&field.alternative_language=&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&old_show=all
<murali_> Any help on galaxy note 8 gt n5100
<Guest27374> Hello. Ubuntu website says "The worldâs first Ubuntu phone is now available for sale all over Europe, direct from the manufacturer, BQ" but I cannot find it. Can somebody give me the link from where I can purchase it?
<Tm_T> this phone actually will be wiped at least once this or next week anyway, as I'll let my coworkers to test things
<simosx> Guest27374, I think the phone will be available really really  soon from bq.com, however ubuntu.com was too fast to announce.
<ogra_> Guest27374, https://twitter.com/bqreaders/status/564745426503745536
<boud> sebas: /win 17
<boud> erm
<simosx> ricsipontaz, I cannot find the 'Rotation Lock' message at that link. There is just 'rotation'.
<ricsipontaz> simosx: I think it comes from the indicator-display
<ricsipontaz> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+source/indicator-display
<simosx> ricsipontaz, that string is present in /usr/share/locale-langpack/hu/LC_MESSAGES/indicator-display.mo on the image in the Ubuntu phone (bq E4.5). What image are you trying?
<simosx> Hmm, how do I sudo to root on the bq E4.5?
<ricsipontaz> simosx: I only tried it in the emulator
<simosx> ricsipontaz, if you can get a shell on the emulator, then you can check if the message is present in Hungarian.
<cwayne> simosx: the password is your pin to unlock the phone
<simosx> ricsipontaz, run:  msgunfmt /usr/share/locale-langpack/hu/LC_MESSAGES/indicator-display.mo  | grep -A 1 Rotation
<simosx> cwayne, thanks.
<cwayne> simosx: np :)
<ricsipontaz_> simosx: msgid "Rotation" msgstr "ForgatÃ¡s" -- msgid "Rotation Lock" msgstr "ForgatÃ¡s zÃ¡rolÃ¡sa"
<ricsipontaz_> But it is still english
<simosx> ricsipontaz_, the package 'indicator-display' has only those two messages. The code properly initialises 'gettext', so I cannot figure out why those two messages do not appear in the localized versions.
<Kalle_Varvikko> Hi! Is there any chance to get LTE working on Google Nexus 4 with ubuntu-touch?   http://www.xda-developers.com/google-nexus-4-lollipop-lte/
<dobey> Kalle_Varvikko: according to that link, it would seem you would simply need to insure the old radio which allows lte is enabled. though i think ofono maybe doesn't work so well with lte/4g at the moment. i pretty much never see lte/4g on my nexus 5 with ubuntu
<jacky_> hi
<jacky_> anyone
<jacky_> looking for ubuntu stable version for i9300
<jacky_> anyone please
<jacky_> anyone can redirect me to download the rom for ubuntu in i9300?
<tsdgeos> mardy: how do I get https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/54_tests and https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts/remove_declared_undefined landed?
<tsdgeos> will you or shall i ping someone?
<josepht> !devices | jacky_
<ubot5> jacky_: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<mardy> tsdgeos: I pinged dbarth some time ago. David? ^
<kenvandine> rsalveti, how can i turn the mic volume down on mako?
<kenvandine> now that i think the robotic sound issue is fixed from flashing the radio, people complain that i'm way to loud when calling from my mako
 * kenvandine thinks we should have in-call volume/mic controls :)
<ogra_> kenvandine, he is on vac. for two days
<kenvandine> ogra_, do you know?
<kenvandine> :-D
<ogra_> nope
<kenvandine> i'm sure i can do it through pulse
<k1l> that much hangover from the release party? :)
<ogra_> haha, not sure the brazilians had one :)
 * ogra_ surely had quite some hangover on sunday :)
<ogra_> and an awful trip back home
<dobey> kenvandine: i still get complaints about echo on my hammerhead
<kenvandine> i don't get echo complaints
<kenvandine> just to loud
<kenvandine> making it hard to understand
<kenvandine> unless the other end pulls the phone away from their ear
<dobey> kenvandine: well, stop yelling at the phone
<kenvandine> i guess :)
<ogra_> dobey, stop phoning from the toilet
<kenvandine> haha
<dobey> no need to be so angry
<dobey> ogra_: stop calling me when i'm dropping a duke :P
<ogra_> dude !
 * kenvandine roflao
<dobey> haha
<kenvandine> i'll never call dobey
<dobey> ubuntu phone, now with auto-tune
<ogra_> as long as we dont ship on devices with nose-sensor all should be fine :)
<popey> i spy someone has hadded an FM radio app to the store
<ogra_> oooh
<popey> it doesn't work on krillin, anyone fancy testing on mako?
<ogra_> bah
 * ogra_ bets you will find denials in syslo 
<ogra_> g
<dobey> well unless popey wrote the app
<popey> defaultServiceProvider::requestService(): no service found for - "org.qt-project.qt.radio"
<dobey> and just made it unconfined and approved it anyway :P
<popey> haha
<popey> we should help the guy
<ogra_> popey, well, i guess that needs bzoltan_ or ricmm
<dobey> i just get "no fm support" dialog on hammerhead
<ogra_> to provide this bit from the SDK
<kenvandine> bfiller, has anyone talked about adding in-call volume/microphone volume controls to the dialer?  or maybe just something for settings?
<kenvandine> i had never thought about that, but i would love it right now
<popey> can you not just use the volume buttons?
<ogra_> for speaker volume that works
<ogra_> not for the mic
<ogra_> (or s/speaker/earpiece/)
<dobey> you can put a sock over the mic
<kenvandine> i just listened to it on the other end, i was able to put my wife's phone down 3 feet away
<kenvandine> and it sounded like a speaker phone
<kenvandine> so loud
<kenvandine> she didn't complain about the mic volume until i flashed the radio to fix the robot voice :)
<dobey> you should go back to the autotune radio
<kenvandine> now i don't sound like a distorted robot, but so loud she can't stand it
<kenvandine> it's impressive that it can get this loud though
<matv1> am I correct in that Telegram scope is not supporting groups(yet) ? some bugreports in lp suggest that it does but i cant find the feature
<jacky_> is discontinue
<jacky_> anyone can redirect me to download the rom for ubuntu in i9300? is discontinue
<ogra_> i surely see roups in mine
<ogra_> *groups
<ogra_> but i havent created any group ... i have always been added to them by somebody else
<ogra_> jacky_, the devices wikipage should have a link to a launchpad page on which you can contact the porter
<matv1> ogra_ I am in both but see neither :(
<ogra_> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<dobey> i really wish amazon had an open API for prime music
<bfiller> kenvandine: I have not seen that on the plan
<bfiller> kenvandine: are you saying the mic input volume is too loud?
 * kenvandine wonders if android does that
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> it's really loud
<varikonniemi> hello, what will the situation be regards to kernel updates since bq ships with blobs
<varikonniemi> locked on release kernel if they don't cooperate?
<kenvandine> before it was hard to understand... which apparently is a known problem with some older radio firmware versions
<dobey> varikonniemi: it will get updates to the kernel version that works with it, when necessary
<ogra_> varikonniemi, the ubuntu security team will likely apply security fixes ... beyond that blobs are blobs ... not much to do about it
<kenvandine> i flashed it to a newer one, and no longer sounds like a distorted robot :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, now it's so loud it sounds like the other end is on speaker phone
<Flexman> anyone here who has ubuntu-touch on the HP Touchpad?
<kenvandine> bfiller, which made me want a nice slider to control the mic level :)
<dobey> Flexman: i don't know of anyone that's ported to that device. i think it has the wrong hardware to be usable
<Flexman> dobey: according to the discussion on XDA it seems that it works on the touchpad.
<bfiller> kenvandine: yeah that sounds like a system sound setting
<Flexman> even better than on other devices
<bfiller> rsalveti: any plans for this? ^^
<kenvandine> just never seen any designs
<kenvandine> bfiller, he's on vacation :)
<bfiller> kenvandine: oh
<dobey> Flexman: i'd expect that discussion should have info about it then :)
<bfiller> kenvandine: the default should be much lower I assume, was this on krillin or N4?
<Flexman> sure
<kenvandine> i was just looking to tweak it with pulse for now
<kenvandine> bfiller, mako
<Flexman> but why shouldn't it work on the Touchpad?
<kenvandine> it's fine on krillin
<bfiller> kenvandine: yes I believe it's a simple pulse config thing
<kenvandine> bfiller, the mic level was fine before i flashed the radio too
<dobey> Flexman: well you said it does. the touchpad is a pretty old device.
<kenvandine> so  pulse hasn't changed
<bfiller> kenvandine: what do you mean flashed the radio?
<kenvandine> just the firmware
<kenvandine> the radio firmware
<bfiller> ack
<kenvandine> known problem running ubuntu on mako with older firmware
<kenvandine> it sounded aweful before
<Flexman> dobey: well i hope that ubuntu touch is faaaaast!!
<kenvandine> newer firmware fixed that... but made it super loud :-/
<Flexman> why would i use a slow system?
<dobey> Flexman: because you have old hardware, and it's likely to be slow? :)
<Flexman> there is no old hardware, there is just slow software!
<Flexman> if the software is too slow then it needs to be re-programmed in assembler!
<ogra_> lol
<dbarth> tsdgeos: i can silo those 2, let me check that after my call
<Flexman> :-)
<tsdgeos> dbarth: thanks
<dobey> Flexman: feel free to convince hardware vendors to realese their hardware driver source to the public :)
<Flexman> i'd better convince the green parties to make a recource-tax on hardware so that it is cheaper to improve software instead.
<Flexman> we'd better invent green foodsteps for our hardware-usage :-D
<Flexman> eh foot not food
<Flexman> dobey: hm public hardware drivers would be nice. hm
<Flexman> thats really i problem, i wasn't aware that there really seems to be nothing that is 100% free
<tsdgeos> elopio: ping https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test/+merge/247079
<Flexman> dobey: but how was it in the old days? weren't there chips that were compatible to Z80 or 6502?
<dobey> Flexman: indeed. we want to get to something where there is 100% open system
<dobey> Flexman: yes, feel free to reverse engineer all you want :)
<Flexman> ah ok. so it's just because reverse-engineering got more complicated?
<elopio> alesage: can you give the last push to https://code.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/unity8/indicator-power-autopilot-test/+merge/247079 ?
<elopio> or talk to charles about it?
<alesage> elopio, ok can do while we're between sprints here :)
<Flexman> dobey: guess i can't do reverse engineering but i wonder what you can do politically to get an open hardware system developed
<dobey> Flexman: when you're talking about a single chip which does the work that 10-20 different chips did 30 years ago, yeah, it's a bit more complex :)
<elopio> alesage: thanks.
<kenvandine> bfiller, actually, it would be better in the sound indicator
<dobey> Flexman: buy things that support open systems, and pressure manufacturers to do likewise by showing them it's financially viable when their competitors that support it, sell more stuff :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, so like while in a call, you pull down the sound indicator you could have a mic slider
<kenvandine> that's only there when the mic is in use
<dobey> you should be able to just set the volume in system settings whenever, too
<kenvandine> bfiller, i think that's where i would expect it
<Flexman> dobey: yes but you just told me today that there is no real open hardware phone :(
<kenvandine> dobey, maybe
<kenvandine> but the time i would think about it, would be while in a call
<kenvandine> so quick access to it makes sense
<dobey> kenvandine: you'd need to adjust it when the voice control hud stuff comes back too
<dobey> so you can be all like "ok, google"
<kenvandine> "ok, ubuntu"
<kenvandine> get it right!
<ogra_> "ok, sabdfl"
<dobey> Flexman: well, ubuntu is much more open than android is, so buy one of the new bq ubuntu phones
<kenvandine> gotta have that too!
<ogra_> ++
<Flexman> dobey: i would like to, but since i prefer keyboard phones, there is none for ubuntu yet
 * ogra_ would call it "diane" though ... as a tribute to twin peaks :)
<dobey> Flexman: well, good luck with that. nobody seems to make keyboard phones any more
<dobey> ogra_: lol
<Flexman> dobey: blackberry does. but about openness: the jolla phone with sailfish os has the possibility to add a keyboard
<dobey> oh, blackberry still makes phones?
<Flexman> dobey: the recent phones even sold well, but i still don't like the company
<dobey> they don't have sliders though do they?
 * dobey misses using his pre3
<ogra_> blackberry makes passports nowadays
<Flexman> dobey: no. i'd prefer the blackberry (or Nokia E71, or Palm Treo 650, or Palm Pre style)
<Flexman> dobey: +1. Pre was nice.
 * dobey wants a properly sized keyboard slider phone
<dobey> but alas
<Flexman> dobey: well you can port Ubuntu Touch to Jolla. Don't know if that makes sense :-D
<ogra_> BT keyboards work already i heard ...
<ogra_> you could just gle one to the phone
<ogra_> *glue
<Flexman> ogra_: yeah hm eh no. ;)
 * dobey glues a bt keyboard to ogra_ 
<ogra_> ;)
<dobey> Flexman: eh? the jolla phone does not have a sliding keyboard afaict
<ogra_> dobey, it has an "other half" with kbd
<Flexman> dobey: sure. see: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla
<dobey> that is a rotated add-on thing
<ogra_> well ...
<dobey> i don't want a rotated big keyboard like that
<ogra_> the other half thingies replace the whole back of the phone
<Flexman> but i would prefer it in blackberry style, or like the Pre has. But that jolla solution is better than nothing
<ogra_> its a slier kbd
<ogra_> *slider
<Flexman> dobey: no its not rotated. it slides, but is kept my magnets
<ogra_> or supposed to be one ... not sure if it is done yet ... i saw some prototype pics
<ogra_> turns your jolla into an n900 :)
<Flexman> so once you attach the magnets your phone is broken ;-D
<dobey> Flexman: i mean it requires rotating the phone
<dobey> Flexman: i want a portrait mode slider
<dobey> i don't like the huge 90 degree sliders
<Flexman> dobey: ah ok. yes, i can understand that. exactly the same preference here
<Flexman> well, blackberry is the only company that does this in the moment. their BB Classic has also phone keys and supports android apps. maybe you'd port Ubuntu Touch there!
<Siilwyn> Hi people, the BQ phone that is being released this week will have a separate OS on it compared to Ubuntu for desktop right? Will the BQ phone keep receiving updates and eventually get the 'universal' OS on it?
<Flexman> i mean, it's not slider but you don't need to rotate
<dobey> the pre is the right size. i can hold it and type with one hand while shifting my car while driving, and not have to really look at it to see what i'm doing, because i can feel the keys
<Flexman> dobey: yep. i also liked the old palms. like Treo 650. Even the OS synchronizateion was good back then. and without nasty cloud
<Flexman> oh, btw: how well does sync in Ubuntu Touch work? and how well will it support keyboard input, if you had such a keyboard phone?
<dobey> Siilwyn: how long updates are available for that device will be up to bq
<Flexman> features like smart dial & co are essential if you have a keyboard phone
<dobey> Flexman: i don't know if it hides the OSK when a real keyboard is being used or not
<dobey> but otherwise should work just fine
<Flexman> well if the OSK is not hidden it still sucks no mather how fine the rest works :-D
<dobey> and only 'supported' 'sync' right now is with google calendar/contacts afaik
<Flexman> ouch
<Flexman> OUCH
<Flexman> and caldav?
<Flexman> and hotsync? ;-P
<Siilwyn> dobey, oh that's a bummer. I thought that updates wouldn't be carrier dependent.
<dobey> Siilwyn: well, if anyone wants to continue trying to maintain builds for the device after bq ends support for it, it's up to that person to do so :)
<dobey> Siilwyn: i wouldn't expect it's too likely for it to remain an official build at that point though.
<Siilwyn> dobey, oh alright. So it has to be build per device.
<Flexman> but there is one thing i could do: releasing an app for ubuntu touch
<Flexman> how does that with the apps work? so you can run normal linux programs? and you have special apps?
<Flexman> does the mail client support identities/alias adresses?
<Flexman> man, we are talking about openness and then only google sync is supported X-(
<dobey> Siilwyn: yes
<Flexman> can you take advantage from the Sailfish OS? i mean, easily porting apps, sync functin, etc?
<dobey> Siilwyn: kernel and drivers are device specific, as are default included apps/scopes and such
<Siilwyn> dobey, in that case if I want a (low-end) phone that is going to run the universal Ubuntu in the future. I shouldn't buy the BQ phone?
<dobey> there are also regional defaults which have spanish as default language and such for the bq devices for example
<Daniel__> hi
<dobey> Siilwyn: that is an impossible to answer question
<Daniel__> i wanna install ubuntu touch in my nexus 7 2012
<dobey> Daniel__: it is not supported any longer
<Flexman> dobey: sorry nagging here, but the website really doesn't offer much info about apps or native linux app comatibility
<Siilwyn> dobey, yeah I understand that. We don't know what BQ is planning ofc.
<dobey> Flexman: the phone doesn't have xorg on it, and doesn't use apt for updates
<Daniel__> mmmmm so is not supported... but what can i do?
<dobey> Siilwyn: i also don't know what you mean by universal
<Siilwyn> Hmmm. I was sure to buy the phone but now I have some big doubts.
<Daniel__> i really want linux in my tablet
<dobey> Daniel__: get a 2013 nexus 7 instead?
<Daniel__> i wort in IT
<Siilwyn> dobey, well the plan is to run Ubuntu from one code base on all devices right? So that's what I mean with universal.
<dobey> Siilwyn: well that already exists
<Flexman> dobey: that means?
<Siilwyn> dobey, oh. Well now I'm confused. The phone runs something else right? Not the 'default Ubuntu'.
<dobey> Flexman: it means unconfined insecure apps that require X11 don't run on the phone, and you can't install arbitrary things from the archive
<Daniel__> so... i don't have any solution?
<dobey> Siilwyn: no, it runs Ubuntu
<Siilwyn> dobey, oh alright that's good to hear. When did they switch?
<dobey> Siilwyn: switch from what? it's always been that way
<ogra_> Daniel__, no, sadly not, the old tegra driver has issues that were unsolvable (since it is binary)
<dobey> Siilwyn: the core system is built from packages that exist in the ubuntu archive. the only difference is that it is running on an android kernel with some android hardware access stuff, running inside a container, and most of the apps/scopes installed by default are from click packages and not in the traditional ubuntu archive
<Siilwyn> dobey, hmmm... I swear on omgubuntu 1-2 years ago they stated that the phone was running from another code base.
<dobey> Siilwyn: no. the android bits used to be cyanogenmod, but it was switched to AOSP some time ago
<ogra_> Siilwyn, it is QML based ... and just being ported to replace the old Unity7 desktop
<ogra_> in case you mean that
<dobey> you can run unity8/mir on your pc if you want, too
<ogra_> yeah, but it is far from being desktop ready yet :)
<ogra_> it will eventually though
<Siilwyn> dobey, ogra_ Alright, and when it is desktop ready will the android bits be dropped?
<ogra_> Siilwyn, the android bits (modem drivers, sensor drivers) can not be dropped from the phone
<dobey> Siilwyn: the android bits will be dropped when someone makes a phone that can run on fully open drivers that work with the latest kernel
<ogra_> you wouldnt be able to make calls
<Flexman> dobey: ah ok. is there something like a store where i could contribute my app to?
<Siilwyn> Oh that way.
<dobey> Flexman: yes. see developer.ubuntu.com
<Flexman> dobey: great!
<ogra_> Siilwyn, ubuntu phone boots to a normal ubuntu ... then fires up an lxc container with a few minimal android bits in it (binary blob drivers and the bits to initialize and drive them) ... this will always be required until you find a modem and sensor manufacturer who provides open specs to write open drivers
<Siilwyn> ogra_, interesting. Does Jolla do that the same way?
<ogra_> Siilwyn, this is the same thing that sailfish (jolla) and firefoxOS do ... we just do it more elegantly inside of an lxc container ... :)
<Siilwyn> ogra_, haha. Fast answer. ty.
<ogra_> (now, i'm biased, i wrote that bit of the system  :) )
<Siilwyn> nice
<dobey> Siilwyn: yes, jolla, firefox os, every alternative os is doing this
<Siilwyn> nhaines on reddit wrote: "This means we won't have Android-like fragmentation and that updates are pushed regularly to all phones by Canonical."
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> you will get monthly updates
<dobey> for as long as the device is supported
<Siilwyn> But this stops when BQ decides to stop?
<Siilwyn> yeah
<Siilwyn> What dobey says.
<dobey> just like apple doesn't support every device ever
<dobey> nor does google, samsung, blackberry, nokia, ms, etcâ¦
<ogra_> (in the beginning at least, we'll see if this is necessary ... pushing empty updates if there is nothing to fix would be pointless indeed)
<ogra_> well, the updates will continue even beyond that timeframe ... at some point the device blobs might not get updated anymore ...
<Siilwyn> Alright this will be a difficult decision. I want to support Ubuntu so buying the phone would be great. But I do want a phone that eventually can be plugged into a bigger screen.
<dobey> ogra_: well, if we end up updating the phones to the next stable release every 6 months or whatever, then i guess it will continue
<ogra_> but by design you can theoretically update an ubuntu phone forever ... the rootfs and the device specific bits are separate
<dobey> right
<mandel> Elleo, if you have time, could you give a quick look too the following MR => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-download-manager/test-space-left/+merge/249093
<ogra_> Siilwyn, yeah, that wont happen before 16.04
<mandel> Elleo, there is nearly no one of my team that knows cpp online today :-/
<Flexman> dobey: and Xwayland?
<dobey> Flexman: we don't use wayland, no
<Siilwyn> ogra_, alright. So the question is: will the BQ phone get the 16.04 update?
<ogra_> Siilwyn, and you will likely need a device with the specs of the ubuntu edge that we tried to get cowdfunding for ...
<Elleo> mandel: sure, just need to finish fixing some test I just broke then I'll take a look :)
<dobey> Flexman: the phone runs on Mir
<mandel> Elleo, superb, thx!
<ogra_> to run a desktop you need some desktop specs ... i.e. a laptop in a phone case
<Siilwyn> dobey, the phone already runs on Mir?
<ogra_> yeah
<dobey> yes
<Siilwyn> Sweet!
<Flexman> dobey: is that an advantage to wayland?
<ogra_> Flexman, for canonical it is
<dobey> Flexman: i'm not going to open that can of worms, but yes
<Siilwyn> I didn't know that Mir is already so far in development.
<Flexman> ok, for canonical but not necesarly to the user? ;)
<ogra_> Flexman, why would the user care
<Flexman> hm
<dobey> for the user yes
<Siilwyn> Flexman, Mir vs. Wayland is a never-ending discussion.
<dobey> more secure phone is definitely a benefit to the user
<Flexman> so what's the advantage? (just want to understand that Mir vs Wayland vs X11 thing)
<Siilwyn> Flexman, it's a trap! Don't get into it! ;p
<Siilwyn> dobey and ogra_ any of you two going to buy the phone?
<Siilwyn> Or wait for a better one?
<dobey> Siilwyn: i'm already running ubuntu on my nexus 5
<ogra_> Siilwyn, well, i'm a developer, i have one since a while ... as my daily driver ... but yeah, i'll buy a few for family and friends
<Flexman> dobey: who cares about security if you can only sync with google? ;-P
<Siilwyn> haha
<dobey> Siilwyn: the bq phone's frequencies don't support 3g in the US and it doesn't do 4g i don't think
<Siilwyn> dobey, I'm also considering to put it on my Nexus 4.
<dobey> Flexman: well, unlike android, you can actually opt to not sync your data
<dobey> Flexman: i can't use android exactly because it has no way to store contacts locally. you *must* have a google account to use it
<Siilwyn> dobey, one of my parents actually store there contacts on there SIM card. I don't think they have a Google account linked to it.
<Siilwyn> dobey, maybe I'm wrong. Not 100% sure.
<ogra_> yeah, that used to be possible in android
<ogra_> not sure it still is
<Flexman> dobey: not really, you can use MyPhoneExlorer with android
<Siilwyn> Requiring a Google account to store contacts sounds really bad.
<ogra_> i think they dropped that feature in newer versions
<dobey> i didn't see an easy way to do that on my nexus 5
<dobey> and even so, storing contacts in SIM sucks
<Siilwyn> dobey, ikr.
<dobey> Flexman: if i have to install random apps from play store to 'fix' android, and not use the core android apps, then i can't use android
<dobey> i might as well just run windows at that point
<ogra_> happy porting :P
<Siilwyn> Windows Phone.
<Isotop7> is there any information if theming ob whole ui will be doable for normal users?
<ogra_> (you could run an ubuntu base, compile wine for arm and run WP in there ;) )
<dobey> Siilwyn: on ubuntu, contacts are stored in evolution-data-server, same as they are on my workstation
<Flexman> dobey: hmm.. no i definately can use my contacts without needing a google account and i guess you could get also the MyPhoneExplorer Client APK from somewhere else.
<Siilwyn> dobey, is that a format to store?
<ogra_> its a db your ubuntu desktop knows at least
<dobey> Flexman: i don't care what you do. i am not going to use android
<dobey> Siilwyn: it's in an sqlitedb
<Siilwyn> dobey, roger that.
 * ogra_ notes that he doesnt really get alon with android anymore after using ubuntu for so long 
<ogra_> just feels extremely uncomfortable
<dobey> Siilwyn: but i exported the contacts from my pre3 to a vcf, imported that into evolution as a new address book, then copied the resulting contacts.db to my phone running ubuntu, and et voila, my contacts are there
<Flexman> dobey: well i'm not happy about android. that's why i am here and with good luck tu Ubuntu and Sailfish OS. (not to firefox os haha)
<ogra_> Flexman, i heard their 2.0 release isnt actually that bad
<Siilwyn> dobey, sounds like quite a hassle to get your contacts on your phone. ;d
<dobey> Siilwyn: well i am running a development os on a development phone, so it wasn't really that much work
<dobey> Siilwyn: but if you want to write something that support the HP/Palm cloud sync thing, go ahead
<ogra_> Siilwyn, well ... sice many people have had a google phone before ... you can just import your contacts fro google with one tap ;)
<Flexman> ogra_: hmm ok. but i heared that the system isn't really made for keboard support and also i don't like that they stop work on Thunderbird and instead put the recources in another competitor for Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish
<Siilwyn> ogra_, sync or import from Google?
<Flexman> however anything that'll be a competitor to android will be nice
<dobey> Siilwyn: "sync"
<Siilwyn> dobey, sounds reasonable in that cas. ;d
<Siilwyn> dobey, after syncing will disconnecting the Google account also remove the accounts?
<ogra_> Flexman, well, desktop was considered dead for the past few years ... even microsoft goes for "mobile and cloud" (like we do, but without dropping teh desktop) ...
<dobey> Siilwyn: yes
<ogra_> Flexman, firefox needs to make money too ...
<ogra_> dobey, really ?
<ogra_> i thought they stay in the local DB
<dobey> ogra_: no, it's a separate db for the google contacts/calendar
 * ogra_ never tried to remove th google account :)
<Flexman> ogra_: but it's not dead. it was considered dead for a hundred of times ;)
<dobey> afaik, removing the account removes the db, as it deletes the info in e-d-s
<ogra_> i use gcal way to much
<ogra_> Flexman, sure, and its on the rise again ... still it isnt where the money is anymore
<dobey> i really wish the accounts stuff was more like it is in webos
<ogra_> dobey, batches of patches accepted i guess ;)
<dobey> desktops aren't dead at all, they are great things for holding up all my mess of papers and electronics hacking equipment, and headphones and whatnot
<Siilwyn> ogra_, dobey thanks for answering all of my boring questions. ;)
<ogra_> dobey, tell that to analysts
<ogra_> Siilwyn, happy to do so :)
<dobey> ogra_: analysts for the forest service?
<Flexman> ogra_: well the money... this whole app thing could be the next bubble...however i was thinking that mozilla was about open software, so why caring about the money? the problem is i could not even donate for thunderbird :-(
<ogra_> dobey, analysts managers listen to
<Siilwyn> Probably going to buy the phone. Fyi.
<ogra_> :D
<ogra_> Flexman, mozilla eploys 100s of developers (or even 1000s ?? not sure)
<Flexman> ogra_: yeah, but none ore one for thunderbird :-/
<Siilwyn> Sad Thunderbird.
<Siilwyn> Is Geary going to be the default mail app for Ubuntu or ...?
<Flexman> Siilwyn: yep. that thunderbird is so 90s. still opens a pop up for every mail you send that will block every thing
<Siilwyn> Flexman, hihi. That's why I use Geary.
<dobey> eh, i never liked thunderbird anyway
<Flexman> ogra_: i mean if openness is the priority than you could at least offer 5% of the recources to things like thunderbird.
<Siilwyn> Curious what will be the default mail app.
<dobey> rm is my favorite mail application
<Flexman> dobey: me neither, but there is no good alternative if you need identities/mail-alias
<ogra_> there is none ... but dekko is extremely cool
<dobey> Flexman: evolution works so much better for me
<ogra_> hmm, there might be a mail webapp preinstalled
<ogra_> dobey, ++
<Flexman> i liked Opera Mail. but not open, no mail-alias
 * ogra_ is evolution user since over 10 years .... still happy with it 
<dobey> only 10?
<ogra_> not sure when before that i started
<ogra_> so i said "over" :)
<ogra_> might be 15
<ogra_> might be 13
<dobey> heh
<ogra_> when i stopped using netscape mail :)
<dobey> yeah i think i've been using it for 15-16
<Siilwyn> Cya later! Got to eat something.
<Flexman> Siilwyn: does geary offer mail-alias and colored quotes?
<ogra_> enjoy
<dobey> mmm soylent
<Siilwyn> Flexman, sorry I don't know. I only have one email account and never wanted to color quotes.
<dobey> blood sugar returning to normal
<Flexman> ogra_: no default mail app??
<ogra_> soylent needs dip ...
<dobey> Flexman: not on the phone
<ogra_> as it is people y'know
<Flexman> Siilwyn: well, enjoy meal then :)
<Siilwyn> Flexman, the UI and speed of Geary is great though.
<Siilwyn> Thanks all!
<ogra_> Flexman, as i said, i think there is a gmail app
<Flexman> dobey: what does "not on the phone" mean?
<dobey> Flexman: it means the phone images do not currently ship a default mail app
<Flexman> lol well no i won't use gmail app...
<ogra_> but dekko isnt 100% done yet so it isnt included by default ... i can imagine that will happen at some point
 * dobey wants openvpn support
<Elleo> mandel: added a couple of tiny points to the review, otherwise it looks good
 * Flexman wants the open super-duper phone!
 * popey hands Flexman a Neorunner
<Flexman> popey: the Neo FreeRunner?
<Flexman> this is missing the keyboard and looking lilke a shower radio!!
<ogra_> but it bounces if you drop it !
<Flexman> ogra_: cool! but i don't know if it's as cool as the Marmelade Other Half i invented for Jolly
<Flexman> if you drop it it always lands on the marmelade side
<ogra_> lol
<Flexman> Jolly ... Jolla
<ogra_> these fins
<Flexman> :-D
<ogra_> what happens if you ten tie it to the back of a cat ?
<ogra_> *then
<ogra_> cats always land on their feet
<Flexman> ogra_: Free Engery!!
<dobey> then it will be like a catroach
<dobey> since cockroaches always land on their back
<popey> Yes, that one.
<dobey> also finds the usage of "other half" to mean something other than the second party of a monogamous relationship, a bit weird
<Isotop7> is there a guide for theming the ui?
<Flexman> dobey: especially since the jolla other half is not monogamous. just imagine you buy it and then you always stick to the same other half
<dobey> Isotop7: there is not
<Isotop7> ...and there isnt anything planned? :)
<dobey> Flexman: humans aren't either, they just try to act like they are
<dobey> Isotop7: i suspect it is unlikely
<ogra_> Isotop7, you should perhaps ask in #ubuntu-app-devel wheer you find most of the SDK guys
<Flexman> dobey: +1
<ogra_> (though i guess in the end its a decision of the designers)
<Isotop7> dobey: oh okay... :/ but thanks for your help :)
<dobey> ogra_: the question is about changing the theme for all apps, which i suspect will not be possible
<ogra_> dobey, well, you can switch the default theme as app developer
<Isotop7> yes...i meant things like the settings etc.
<ogra_> i would expect us to support that some day on a system level too
<dobey> ogra_: yes, for your own app. but you can't change the theme of say system-settings
<Isotop7> okay thanks :)
<ogra_> you could fork it and just hack these bits up though :)
<dobey> and i don't think design wants it to be possible to do that
<ogra_> the system is all open, everything (but the binary blobs) can be changed
<dobey> at least without knowingly breaking your own system
<dobey> right
<Flexman> ogra_: dobey: so thank you for the conversation. it was very interesting to know about these things. unfortunately i'll have to create my perfect phone myself as it doesn't exist yet. guess i'll get back here when my app is finished so that i can put it in the ubunto touch repositories
<dobey> but there's a difference between forking the system and building your own images, veruss having a "theme" module in settings :)
<ogra_> i would expect us to allow the possibility of wallpaper packs, theme packs, icon packs etc ... sound themes too
<dobey> Flexman: yeah, when i get my CNC machines set up, maybe i'll make a demo case for it :)
<ogra_> just not right now
<Flexman> dobey: haha great
<dobey> ogra_: should i point at that year-old bug about not being able to change the background in the dash any more? :)
<Flexman> hmm i think of turning a Chamaeleon 64 into a phone
<Isotop7> ogra: my intention :) something like cyanogenmods theme engine (dont bash me...)
<Flexman> GSM connection via userport should work
<dobey> i do really want to change the sounds on my phone
<ogra_> Flexman, yeah ! do that ... publishing an app to the ubuntu store is a breeze ... 5mins of work ... (perhaps 1h if you do it the first time to find your way around though)
<dobey> but i have no idea how to do that in a way that the system will work right
<ogra_> Isotop7, why would i bash you :)
<Flexman> ogra_: well... the problem is that i stopped programming with Visual Basic 1.0. But if there is a good basic for linux, then I will try myself :-D
<ogra_> Isotop7, i think thats a very valid request (and i bet many of us agree)
<ogra_> Flexman, lol ... QML is so much easier than basic ...
<Isotop7> because comparing a theme engine of cm to ubuntu phone...dont know...you guys seem pretty capable of what youre doing and noobs like me are easily scared when asking some dumb questions :D
<Flexman> ogra_: but i have some programmers who'll do the app for me, since they like open source and will use QT i hope they might port it to Sailfish and Ubuntu Touch
<ogra_> Isotop7, there are no dumb questions ... only assholes that answer wrongly ;)
<Flexman> ogra_: does QML have a Goto command?
<ogra_> Flexman, does HTML have a goto command (or does it need one)
<Flexman> nah, but HTML is more complicated than Commodore Basic 2.0 :)
<Isotop7> ogra: thank you :)
<ogra_> Flexman, QML is very close to HTML :)
<ogra_> and both of them understand javascript too :)
<Flexman> hm. i never really liked javascript. are there really people who do?
<dobey> there are even people who like qml
<ogra_> :)
<Flexman> all i'd like to have is some space where i can draw my buttons and text windows and then just have the button.pressed event that makes text1.text="hello world"
<ogra_> yeah, trivial
 * dobey really does not like qml
<Flexman> :)
 * ogra_ does
<Flexman> and in CBM basic you just can go like
<Flexman> 10print"hello world"
<Flexman> you don't even need spaces (but you need line numbers)
<Flexman> but if i have some time maybe i'd visit some programming course to see how it works nowadays
<Daniel_Olivares> hi someone has a link to download ubuntu tocuh grouper?
<Isotop7> ogra_: can i bother you some more? are you familiar with the hybrid modem hack of nexus 4 within android?
<Flexman> however: there is still a good chance that i could add an app to ubuntu touch! :)
<ogra_> Isotop7, nope, whats that ?
<ogra_> (see, now i'm asking dumb questions ;) )
<Daniel_Olivares> UBUNTU grouper?
<ogra_> Daniel_Olivares, long dead
<dobey> Daniel_Olivares: you mean ubuntu on 2012 n7? no longer supported
<Daniel_Olivares> i know that but is my tablet model
<Daniel_Olivares> and i need install ubuntu
<dobey> there are issues with tegra hardware
<ogra_> Daniel_Olivares, the driver was missing features ... and since it is closed source there was no way to add them, so we had to drop support ...
<dobey> you will not be able to use the image on it
<Daniel_Olivares> oooooh ok
<dobey> even if you grabbed the last built image for it, and installed that, you would find very quickly that it is completely unusable
<Daniel_Olivares> and what happend if i install flo version? or generic version?
<ogra_> Daniel_Olivares, you could install an old image indeed if you are not after the UI and just need a working linux install for i.e. running a webserver or whatnot
<ogra_> but UI bits wont be usable on that HW
<dobey> ogra_: might be better to just install an ubuntu-server arm build, in that case
<Daniel_Olivares> can i install a full version of ubuntu?
<ogra_> the flo version is for the 2013 model ... which is completely different hardware
<Daniel_Olivares> who can i do taht!
<ogra_> dobey, yeah, perhaps
<Daniel_Olivares> that*
<dobey> Daniel_Olivares: sure, the drivers are problematic though
<Isotop7> ogra_: in the xda forum i found a recovery install zip with a hybrid modem of two versions which supports lte on mako even though its not intended....after that i had to change the way mako connected to network from normal 3g to 4g gsm...am i right that ubuntu uses the same baseband as android since modem data is stored on device itself? when this is true, how could i change the way mako connects to the network? i think lte is supporte
<Daniel_Olivares> mmm
<dobey> i don't know how exactly to install from an armhf ubuntu iso to the nexus tablet
<dobey> but there are instructions on-line if you search, i'm sure
<ramsudharsan> Generating master DTB... completed Made DT image: /home/buzz/ramsudharsan/out/target/product/condor/dt.img ----- Making recovery image ------ Target boot image: /home/buzz/ramsudharsan/out/target/product/condor/boot.img usage: mkbootimg        --kernel <filename>        --ramdisk <filename>        [ --second <2ndbootloader-filename> ]        [ --cmdline <kernel-commandline> ]        [ --board <boardname> ]        [ --base <a
<Daniel_Olivares> mmm i will try installing ubuntu server
<ramsudharsan> Can someone help me?
<ramsudharsan> Sorry for posting the entire log here
<dobey> Isotop7: i don't think ofono has support for lte yet
<ogra_> dobey, sure does
<dobey> ogra_: it does?
<Isotop7> Daniel_Olivares: as long as you got a valid bootloader and kernel you could use debootstrap to create rootfs
<Flexman> ogra_: dobey: ok, cu
<ogra_> but you need some hacking
<ramsudharsan> http://pastebin.com/amdiffuf
<dobey> ogra_: what sort?
<ogra_> /usr/share/ofono/scripts/set-tech-preference lte
<dobey> ogra_: would be nice to get lte back onto my n5
<ogra_> works on a device with LTE support for me
<ogra_> indeed, that requires that your rild can handle that
<ogra_> and that ofono can properly talk toi your rild about it etc etc
<Isotop7> rild? sorry :/
 * dobey tries
<ogra_> not sure the N5 port can
<dobey> oh doh, i forgot i enabled wifi
<ramsudharsan> Can someone help me with this: http://pastebin.com/amdiffuf
<ogra_> Isotop7, the binary daemon that talks to your modem
<dobey> ogra_: i used to get 4g back in may last year, at least when in the US
<dobey> but there were some changes to ofono/telepathy and it stopped working
<ogra_> ramsudharsan, that looks like your makefile somehow calls the mkbootimg command with wrong arguments or some such
<Isotop7> oh okay...thanks for the link...maybe i can get something to work :)
<dobey> hmm, and now i have to install a full 300+ MB image
<ramsudharsan> @ogra_ But the mkbootimg I am using is from an official device..
<ramsudharsan> @ogra_ I mean from Mokee OS
<ramsudharsan> Is there any way for me to fix it?
<ramsudharsan> or can I send you the mkbootimg?
<ogra_> ramsudharsan, well, the usage message kind of points to the fact that you might use mkbootimg wrongly
<bzoltan_> Isotop7: you want to catch zsombi during CET daytime and ask him
<Isotop7> bzoltan_: oh thanks :)
<ramsudharsan> @ogra_ ok I will look for a fix.. Thanks :) and I need one more help
<ogra_> ramsudharsan, try the mailing list too :)
<ramsudharsan> The Description of the patches on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AndroidDevel
<ramsudharsan> @ogra_ Yes, for sure
<ramsudharsan> I don't find the download link to those patches
<ogra_> we are trying to get a proper new porting uide up ... but everyone was super busy with the phone we released on friday :)
<ramsudharsan> I tried the link to launchpad but it didn't even exist
<ogra_> hopefully that will get a bit better and we can have a proper porting doc again
<ramsudharsan> I understand the stress you guys are undergoing through.. I am just a porter here :)
<ramsudharsan> I will be waiting for that doc :)
<ramsudharsan> Thanks
<ogra_> the mailing list is at the bottom of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone you just need to join the team
<ramsudharsan> Ok :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, remember we were talking about the photo editing while using the content picker?  is there a bug to track that?  i tried sharing a picture taken from the krillin camera on telegram without wifi
<kenvandine> i wished i could have resized it first :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, if not, i'll file one, should that be under camera or gallery?
<kenvandine> I assume uploading the photo on edge timed out or something, an hour after it started it was still pending
<dobey> whoo 4g
<kenvandine> actually, we must do some automatic resizing for the messenger-app
<kenvandine> must be done in messenger-app itself, to be suitable for mms
<kenvandine> maybe the telegram app can be smart about the type of connection and do the same
<kenvandine> if not on wifi
<kenvandine> bfiller, i filed bug 1419921
<ubot5> bug 1419921 in gallery-app "[share] Provide photo editing during sharing/picking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419921
<kenvandine> looks like the editing component has landed, so shouldn't be hard to do
<bfiller> kenvandine: one sec, in meeting
<Isotop7> seems like my sim card isnt recognized...
<Isotop7> just says "Nicht bekannt" (not known)
<Isotop7> dont even get output in /var/log/dmesg
<Isotop7> neither syslog
<jhodapp> svij, ping
<svij> jhodapp: pong
<Isotop7> ogra_: can you help me?
<jhodapp> svij, I'm trying to reproduce the no media audio bug, do you still have your krillin in that state with that issue?
<ogra_> Isotop7, wait for "awe" to show up ... he is one of the radio stack people
<ogra_> (though not sure he is around today)
<Isotop7> oh okay... :/
<ogra_> Isotop7, what device is that ?
<Isotop7> its mako
<svij> jhodapp: not sure what "krillin" means, but yes, it's still in the state, I didn't have the time yet to try out that command from that comment
<ogra_> Isotop7, weird ... never had issues with that ...
<ogra_> svij, krillin is the model name ofr the aquaris
<jhodapp> svij, krillin is just the codename for your phone
<Isotop7> used to work in the past...last tested it with sim at build...lets say ~140
<svij> ogra_: jhodapp: ah!
<ogra_> Isotop7, does it have a PIN set ?
<jhodapp> svij, that's good to know, I'm trying to reproduce it and may want you to try a few things for me in a few minutes
<svij> jhodapp: yeah, give me a few minutes, want to finish sth else firstâ¦
<Isotop7> yes it has...sim pin and unlock pin....wanted to use /usr/share/ofono/scripts/unlock-pin but it needs a pin type :/
<jhodapp> svij, yeah it might be a little while for me too, I have to flash my local device fresh and try to reproduce
<jhodapp> svij, what timezone are you in?
<ogra_> Isotop7, try removing the pin on another phone perhaps ... not sure if there are any PIN related bugs on mako currently
<svij> jhodapp: UTC+1 I think (Germany)
<jhodapp> ok
<ogra_> Isotop7, i think having a PIN is pretty german :) i always get weird looks from the americans if i tell them thats a typical default here ;)
<bfiller> kenvandine: thanks for filing the bug, yes we should be able to do that - that is - edit the photo when in picker mode
<svij> ogra_: i wonder why it's uncommon in other countries ;)
<ogra_> they are less paranoid i guess :)
<ogra_> see "slide to unlock" as a default on iphones :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, i didn't see an existing bug
<kenvandine> bfiller, do you know if messaging-app is what resizes photos for mms?
<kenvandine> i assume it is done on that end of it
<bfiller> kenvandine: it does yes, or possibly done via telephony-service
<kenvandine> i'll file a bug against telegram to do the same if on a slow connection
<kenvandine> wishlist bug for sure though :)
<kenvandine> uploading a full-sized photo on edge is terrible!
<ogra_> yeah, make us ship convert !
<bfiller> kenvandine: I still think it makes sense to add some sort of hints when requesting an object via the content-hub that states preferred size, etc so the work is done by the exporter instead
<kenvandine> it would be nice
<bfiller> kenvandine: as I believe address-book-app also does a resizing of the image
<kenvandine> we talked about that at some point
<bfiller> for contact avatar
<kenvandine> but i fear the API would be terrible
<kenvandine> i love all the compliments we get on our API
<kenvandine> i'd hate for that to stop :)
<bfiller> kenvandine: that's what mark's objection was I recall
<kenvandine> it can really get polluted
<ogra_> kenvandine, just spray some glitter acrylic over it and nobody will notice ...
<bfiller> kenvandine: could just be an optional map of properties
<ogra_> do it the popey-way ;)
<kenvandine> ogra_, will do :)
<kenvandine> bfiller, but you have to be able to figure out what those optional properties are
<kenvandine> anyway, it can get ugly
<kenvandine> but i agree the domain knowledge for photo editing is best in gallery
<kenvandine> not in the consuming app
<bfiller> kenvandine: the exporter could define them in the manifest somehow and could be a call in the importer to retreive them
<bfiller> seems fairly clean
<kenvandine> i had thought about exposing those in the .desktop file for the picker
<kenvandine> i even had a mockup at one point
<svij> where can I find the changelog for todays krillin update?
<ogra_> svij, tricky question :)
<svij> ogra_: give me a tricky answer and I'm fine. :)
<ogra_> svij, rootfs changelogs are at http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/touch-image-stats/rtm/ ... but that wont help you much since the numbers change once the image gets promoted
<ogra_> svij, then there are changes to the device tarball for which john-mcaleely usually sends a mail to the ML
<john-mcaleely> svij, ah yes. my changelogs are here
<ogra_> and third there can be fixes in the custom tarball which are maintained by cwayne
<ogra_> he also sends mails to the ML
<john-mcaleely> http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, (actually, I rarely send mail these days)
<ogra_> svij, an executive daily summary comes from sil2100 in the daily landing emails on the ubuntu-phone ML
<john-mcaleely> svij,  and today's is this: http://people.canonical.com/~jhm/barajas/ubuntu-rtm-14.09/device_krillin-20150209-094615f.changes
<svij> well, that's really tricky ;)
<ogra_> i told you :)
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, svij yeah - he sweeps up my changes too
 * svij needs to subscribe to the ubuntu-phone MLâ¦
<ogra_> svij, best is to wait for sil2100's mail to get the summary ... he usually also maps which numbers from the proposed channel became promoted images
<ogra_> svij, i usually re-share them on G+ btw
<svij> ogra_: okay, thank you all :)
<svij> oh, so I won't miss it
<sil2100> svij: please do ;) There's a lot of nice info on that ML usually
<ogra_> right, just look for "Landing Team"
<svij> did I hear correctly, that there will be weekly updates for krillin?
<ogra_> svij, no, there will be weekly images going to QA
<svij> ah
<ogra_> for the enduser there will be monthly images
<svij> i see
<ogra_> well, there are also daily builds
<ogra_> depends which image channel you use on the device .... you can switch
<ogra_> i use the daily builds on mine for example ... but that sometimes brings in evil bugs
<svij> I stay at the stable builds I thinkâ¦
<pmcgowan> +1
<svij> depending on how much I'm going to contribute, I might changeâ¦
<ogra_> brave people could use the weekly ones to help QA finding issues ... but well, thats for the really brave hearted
<svij> haha
<ogra_> (not that our QA isnt awesome and misses bugs though :) )
 * svij is not brave hearted as you see :P
<ogra_> yeah, stay on stable then
<Isotop7> ogra_:deactivated sim...mako's rebooting :)
<ogra_> good luck :)
<Isotop7> ogra_: thanks for the hint :)
<ogra_> what provider is that btw ?
<ogra_> i have eplus and congstar here ... bot used to work (havent used th mako with a sim in a while)
<Isotop7> vodafone germany
<Isotop7> me too...but in the past it worked with pin :)
<Isotop7> maybe the hybrid modem is a problem :D :D
<Isotop7> got connection :)
<ogra_> yay
 * ogra_ calls it a day
<Isotop7> if i set tech-preference to lte the phone just uses lte and has no fallback to 3g or 2g?
<Isotop7> ogre_:seems to run...ill test it tomorrow :)
<Isotop7> oh...no...maybe thursday...not having lte in my village :o
<Isotop7> when is here navigation dropping in?
<kenvandine> bfiller, we have a fix for bug 1415509 in vivid, would be nice to get that added to an upcoming rtm milestone
<ubot5> bug 1415509 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Secure Simple Pairing dialogs not implemented yet" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415509
<nhaines> Anyone around who's familiar with the Telegram app?  It's working beautifully but the scope can't load my account.
<nhaines> I'd like to know where to find logs if I need to file a bug.  :)
<popey> nhaines: ~/.cache/upstart
<nhaines> popey: fantastic, thanks!
<nhaines> I don't actually use Telegram much (although I was able to have a quick chat with jose and share a pictue of my cat!) but let me say that seeing such a polished, high quality app was really exciting.
<popey> yeah, its pretty good
<svij> jhodapp: finally esponded to that bug report
<jhodapp> svij, ok great thanks
<jhodapp> svij, I've been trying to reproduce it with no luck so far
<jhodapp> svij, can you describe in general how you were using the media parts of your phone before the media sound part stopped working?
<kenvandine> nhaines, good question about the telegram scope
<kenvandine> i noticed it wasn't finding my account, but never looked into it
<kenvandine> i just checked the logs, turns out it's looking for a file with parens in the path, and telegram doesn't use the parens in that path
<kenvandine> cwayne, is that one of your scopes?
<cwayne> kenvandine: kind of, please log a bug against libqt-telegram project and I'll get someone to take a looksie
<kenvandine> cwayne, thx
<svij> jhodapp: I startet with a short recording of a video to check the sound, than I stopped, played that video â worked. Restart a new recording of a video (recorded a couple of videos though). When I wanted to play the video, there was no sound. I don't remember anything other specific details
<nhaines> kenvandine, cwayne: thanks.  :)
<jhodapp> svij, ok, so you hadn't really done any music playback or other general video playback...just all or mostly video recording/playback right?
<svij> jhodapp: yes
<svij> well after the sound wasn't working I tried other audio yes, but not before the occurence of that bug
<jhodapp> svij, ok, can you put that description as a comment on the bug report as well please?
<svij> jhodapp: sure
<jhodapp> thanks much!
<kenvandine> cwayne, bug 1419965
<ubot5> bug 1419965 in libqtelegram "[scope] looks for auth file in the wrong path." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419965
<cwayne> kenvandine: thanks! will get the appropriate people on it
<kenvandine> cwayne, just looks like the phone number formatting getting in the way there
<kenvandine> should be an easy fix, i'd guess
<popey> anyone else seen this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1419976
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1419976 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "launcher bugs can get stacked on top of eachother" [Undecided,New]
<popey> (marked confirmed because I saw someone else do it, and confirmed myself)
<nhaines> popey: I can't seem to reproduce it.
<popey> takes a few moves to do it
<adrian47> is possible to disable location service? (porting reason)
<adrian47> because it stops booting because of many location service errors
<kgunn> tedg: looks like charles is out today...do you know if there's a bug specifically about volume laggyness on vivid ?
<kgunn> i skimmed...but didn't see anything
<kgunn> tedg: nvmd...found it, was looking in wrong project
<popey> bfiller: is the latest calendar sync stuff landed in the image?
<popey> "[09/02/2015 20:32] Sync done: alan.pope@canonical.com (calendar) Status: 403 Error: Forbidden / access denied Duration: 185s"
<popey> grrrr
<popey> bfiller: do you want me to file a bug with log or something?
<bfiller> popey: yes please, please attach .cache/upstart/sync-monitor.log
<bfiller> renatu: ^^^
<popey> kk
<popey> bfiller: renatu https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sync-monitor/+bug/1420002
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1420002 in sync-monitor (Ubuntu) "Sync fail 403 on krillin 231" [Undecided,New]
<popey> missed 1420000 by 2!
<bfiller> popey: thanks, can you also attach the html file that is in here: /home/phablet/.cache/syncevolution/google_+calendar_+11-2015-02-09-20-29-b
<bfiller> popey, renatu : it's weird it looks like getting denied by google for some reason
<popey> ya
<popey> bfiller: renatu done, but it's 4M so compressed it.
<bfiller> popey: thanks alot. I just tried it and it's working fine. We did see some issues a few weeks ago but they went away. Maybe that's what you are seeing
<bfiller> popey: is today the first failure you've seen?
<bfiller> popey: possible it could be in a bad state if calendar crashed during initial sync but syncevo should recover
<bfiller> popey: if you try to sync again do you get the same error/
<bfiller> ?
<popey> lemme see
<popey> well, i see evolution-calen... eating my cpu, so something is happening bfiller
<popey> and progress in synclog
<popey> New connection type: "WLAN"
<popey> what's that about?
<popey> I am on wifi.
<popey> bfiller: failed again
<bfiller> popey: crap
<bfiller> popey: we'll get to the bottom of it
<popey> after the "progress 100" I got a report... http://paste.ubuntu.com/10148473/
<popey> ok
<popey> thanks
<maettu_> hi, i would like to install Ubuntu for Devices on my Nexus 7, are there any Options to install a "Dualboot" with my existing Android?
<dobey> maettu_: 2013 n7 code named 'flo' ?
<maettu_> @dobey yes i think its flo
<dobey> maettu_: if it's flo or deb, you should be able to use the MultiROM app which is in the play store
<maettu_> where can i find out if its flo?
<dobey> it says on the bootloader screen iirc
<maettu_> thats this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.multirommgr ?
<Tassadar> yes)
<dobey> heh
<dobey> yes :)
<pngo_> is there a way to set a volume to mic via amixer?
<pngo_> arecord -l gives me so many devices that i'm not sure which is mic
<ulrichard> on the ubuntu site it looks like the aquaris phone launched, but I can't find it on  http://www.bq.com
<k1l_> ulrichard, they will start the flash deal on their bq site this week, afaik
<OerHeks> ulrichard http://www.bq.com/es/ubuntu.html
<renatu> popey, try to disable and re-enable the calendar sync, looks like the token from online account has expired
<renatu> bfiller, ^^
<renatu> popey, bfiller, I am not sure how to handle this case, I need to talk with mardy tomorrow
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-10
<firemedic624> I am trying to install Ubuntu Touch on my Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (n8013) and I am wondering how hard it would be to use the newest vivid build?
<nhaines> !devices
<ubot5> You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<firemedic624> I saw that earlier but noticed that it was for the Sony Xperia Tablet Z.  Is that interchangable with the Galaxy Note 10.1?
<rsalveti> kenvandine: there is no way to turn the mic volume down atm (afaik the hal doesn't support it), but I know we're missing some audio mixing with mako
<rsalveti> kenvandine: bfiller: we have the bug open for mako, but unfortunately not enough time to invest on it
<rsalveti> most of the time was to make sure krillin was fine
<nhaines> firemedic624: your guess is as good as mine.  The answer is almost always "no".
<nhaines> Even the Nexus 7 and the 2013 Nexus 7 are (computer part-wise) completely different devices with no similarities!  :)
<krabador> ok, here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting the guide are deprecated, it will be a new guide soon?
<kenvandine> rsalveti, thx, updating the radio firmware fixed the robot voice :)
<rsalveti> great
<kenvandine> but the volume is still super high
<kenvandine> do you see that too?
<kenvandine> really whoever i talk to can just put their phone down and walk away
<rsalveti> sorry, don't use mako for calls usually, but I know it had that issue, yeah
<kenvandine> they can hear me
<rsalveti> which firmware did you install?
<kenvandine> 4.4
<kenvandine> actually
<rsalveti> wow, that happened with the firmware from 4.2 afaik
<rsalveti> interesting
<kenvandine> today i updated it to the 5.0.1
<kenvandine> same thing
<kenvandine> the robot voice is fixed though :)
<kenvandine> that was in 4.2 i think
<rsalveti> =\, will try to take a look later this week and see
<rsalveti> yeah
<kenvandine> if we can just turn the mic volume down now
<rsalveti> hard when you have so many criticals to work on :-)
<kenvandine> it'd be great
<kenvandine> yeah
<rsalveti> yeah
<kenvandine> understand
<kenvandine> voice calls are great on krillin
<kenvandine> but... sucks for data, can't live on edge anymore
<rsalveti> indeed, that sucks hard
<kenvandine> so i'd rather have 3g and annoy people on the phone
<kenvandine> than have edge :)
<kenvandine> i tried playing with pactrl set-source-volume
<kenvandine> changing the volumes did nothing
<rsalveti> yeah, because the hal ignores it
<rsalveti> need to check if that is indeed possilble
<rsalveti> don't even know if you can do that on android
<kenvandine> rsalveti, i'd appreciate it :)
<rsalveti> :-)
<bazz> i'm trying to use sudo on my phone, but when give the password as "phablet" it doesn't work.  whoami gives phablet.  running vivid-development build 95
<bazz> any ideas?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: hey, the password will be the code you use to unlock your phone
<bazz> marcustomlinson: ahh, thanks!  that did it.  how come all the guides say to use "phablet"?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: which guide are you looking at?
<bazz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes#AdbAccess
<bazz> guess that's old release notes, sorry
<bazz> i should have looked at which version it was for
<bazz> i couldn't find anything newer though :)
<marcustomlinson> hmmm, yeah, not sure if that is explained anywhere on the website
<bazz> hrmm, now i can't update anything because / is mounted read only.  can i just remount it rw?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: exit adb, then run "phablet-config writable-image" with the phone plugged in
<marcustomlinson> bazz: this is explained in: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<bazz> marcustomlinson: i don't run ubuntu on my laptop, so i haven't installed phablet-config...
<bazz> ahh, nm, i found where i can get it though :)
<bazz> marcustomlinson: arg, lots of dependencies.  is there a way to enable writable without phablet-tools or do i have to install it?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: let me see
<bazz> marcustomlinson: thanks, i appreciate it
<marcustomlinson> bazz: from adb shell do: dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.canonical.PropertyService /com/canonical/PropertyService com.canonical.PropertyService.SetProperty string:writable boolean:true
<bazz> cool, that did it, thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> cool :)
<bazz> so is that why enabling developer options requires setting a passcode?
<marcustomlinson> yes
<bazz> makes sense for the first time, but then why can't i turn it back off and keep developer mode on.
<marcustomlinson> bazz: possibly because ssh is autoconfigured with the same security. Kinda dangerous leaving yourself open to ssh attacks. Thats my guess
<bazz> marcustomlinson: wouldn't ssh just take the password i set the first time?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: yeah, but update if you change the password right? Removing the password is technically an update
<bazz> marcustomlinson: ohh, so when i turn off the security it changes my password back to nothing?  i guess that makes sense then, although it's super annoying to have those tied together.  i hate having a pin to unlock my phone, but i want to mess around with adb/ssh etc
<marcustomlinson> bazz: yeah, I'm with you there. I just set a really simple passcode 0000 or something
<bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, heh, exactly what i do too.  which is like, almost worse, because now if i'm attacking something i know is an ubuntu phone i'm gonna try simple passcodes like that
<marcustomlinson> bazz: hense the big warning image when setting to dev mode ;)
<bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, good point.  anyway, so what happens if i enable dev mode, install ssh, then turn off lock screen security?  can i ssh in with no password?
<marcustomlinson> bazz: that sounds like a fun project :)
<marcustomlinson> bazz: haha, not sure, give it a try
<bazz> marcustomlinson: will give it a go :)
<marcustomlinson> bazz: no amount of policing can stop a guy shooting himself in the foot at home alone in his room
<bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah for sure.  i just think tying those things together is a poor choice and will encourage foot shooting
<marcustomlinson> bazz: right
<marcustomlinson> well perhaps someone else on this channel has any thoughts ^
<bazz> marcustomlinson: ahh, seems ssh is set to not allow password authentication :)
<marcustomlinson> bazz: hence the passcode I suppose
<marcustomlinson> bazz: so you can ssh in but can't screw around without the code
<bazz> marcustomlinson: yeah, kinda makes sense actually, temporarily use adb to set sshd up and running and put your public key there, and then use ssh after that
<rainfyre> hey folks. i'm looking into installing ubuntu touch on my 2nd gen nexus 7 and i'm wondering if it's going to overwrite my existing twrp recovery
<dholbach> good morning
<rainfyre> morning
<levd1> Hi there, any one interested in porting Ubuntu Touch to RK3288 development board ?
<antoniut> hi guys
<antoniut> do you know when the bq phone with ubuntu will be put to sale?
<popey> antoniut: this week
<popey> antoniut: follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when
<antoniut> popye: thanks :)
<antoniut> popey
<uhhimhere> so hows the aquarius e4.5
<mcphail> As #ubuntu-phone appears to be a closed channel, is this the correct place to lurk for announcements about sales of the BQ device?
<popey> follow http://twitter.com/ubuntu and http://twitter.com/bqreaders to find out when
<popey> mcphail: #ubuntu-phone should redirect here
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Extraterrestrial Culture Day! :-D
<mcphail> popey: thanks - unfortunately twitter is blocked at work so was hoping to use IRC instead ;)
<popey> mcphail: Ok, we'll update the topic here
<popey> once we have a link
<mcphail> popey: you're a star
<uhhimhere> why is ubuntu-phoine closed?
<uhhimhere> but srsly whats the deal with the e4.5?
<uhhimhere> has anybody tried it?
<popey> uhhimhere: the channel redirects here, it's not closed
<popey> uhhimhere: we redirected a bunch of channels here, rather than have too many channels
<ogra_> uhhimhere, only 30 ppl have it in their hands yet ... til the first flash sale starts this week
<uhhimhere> whats with this flash sale anyways?
<uhhimhere> reminds me of the sega saturn "launch"
<ogra_> most of them post on social media, you should be able to find videos etc
<popey> It's a common method of selling new devices with chinese companies
<mcphail> certainly a good way to build excitement about a product
<ogra_> well ... it is more than marketing strategy :)
<ogra_> for a small phone manufacturer the margin you earn on a phone isnt actually big
<mcphail> sure - but this isn't a new device for BQ so the risks aren't so high in manufacturing
<ogra_> if you have to pay 1â¬ per week as storage costs for devices you want to sell, thats a lot of money for them
<ogra_> it is a different production
<ogra_> (no android buttons on the glass for example)
<mcphail> ogra_: interesting - didn't realise that
<ogra_> so you only pre-produce a certain amount ...
<uhhimhere> so is it ubuntu w/ libhybris
<uhhimhere> or is it ubuntu ubuntu
<ogra_> its a phone .... since you know what libhybris is i guess you can answer that yourself ;)
<ogra_> there is no way to make HW work on a phone without binary blob drivers
<uhhimhere> i can but id rather err on the side of optimism
<ogra_> optimism that we developed free drivers for undocumented modem HW ?
<ogra_> (or sensors, GPS, graphics ... make your pick)
<ogra_> we arent better than jolla or firefoxOS in that regard, all of us need to use the drivers available
<mcphail> uhhimhere: i think we're a few years away from open firmware for a popular phone. With the recent explosion in Linux-based mobile operating systems, that day might come
<uhhimhere> yeah but since ubuntu OS aims to be a dockable system ; its going to be competing with the likes of intelHD so openess in alot more than baseband would come in handy
<ogra_> but while jolla integrates them in their rootfs and uses hybris ... and friefox even wrapped their whole OS around them without using hybris, ubuntu phone boots directly into a clean ubuntu ... all android bits are inside an lxc container that gets started on demand during boot
<ogra_> (you *could* turn it just off and run your phone as i.e. a webserver with a clean ubuntu installation)
<Scooty-loo> Hey I'm new here. Just a quick question, will Bq aquaris e4.5 be able to flash ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> i heard bq plans to release images for that, yes
<ogra_> not sure when though ... i guess onbly after the first devices have been sold
<Scooty-loo> Cool! Anymore details?
<ogra_> nope, thats all i know
<Scooty-loo> kay thanks, dropping back in after a while bye guys
<Scooty-loo> And ladies
<uhhimhere> will there be any vivante based ubuntu phones?
<uhhimhere> would be cool to see ubuntu-touch running with etnaviv drivers on the gfx side
<ogra_> convince vivante to port it ;)
<ogra_> or make them ask canonical
<ogra_> (or port it yourself)
<uhhimhere> huh? port what
<ogra_> ubuntu for phones ;)
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/
<uhhimhere> im confused
<uhhimhere> they dont make phones
<ogra_> ah
<oSoMoN> hey rpadovani!
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, unfortunately I'll not be able to join wed hangout, 'cause I do on wed afternoon laser surgery to eyes, so I think until saturay I'll not able to be at computer
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, anyway tonight I try to do a first submit for setttings ui
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, awesome, and donât worry about missing the hangout, we can catch up later (Iâll be off on Thursday and Friday, which is why we moved the weekly catchup this week)
<robertoper> Hi! I would like to try Unity8 on my desktop. And It worked one time in the past, but now It doesn't log in. It shows the LightDM but when I click on the login button it only shows the lightdm again with blank login window. Any idea?
<ogra_> uhhimhere, well, while that would be a step forward you still wont get around using a modem on a phone ...
<popey> robertoper: probably best asking in #ubuntu-desktop
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, cool, thanks!
<robertoper> popey: Ok, thanks
<uhhimhere> ogra_, dont matter if i could dual boot
<ogra_> dual boot ?
<ogra_> how would that solve the closed driver issue
<uhhimhere> ogra_, one factory image one not-factory image
<ogra_> i still dont see how that helps
<uhhimhere> one image specifically for desktop computing
<ogra_> you wont be able to do anything with the phone without drivers
<uhhimhere> that doesnt require RF specific drivers
<ogra_> true ... but why would you use two images for that ?
<uhhimhere> because its now a desktop-ish platform; therefore I can
<ogra_> whats a desktop-ish platform ?
<uhhimhere> what is a phone?
<ogra_> (how would apt-get install be different on desktop vs phone)
<ogra_> (and why would i care ... if i want a desktop experience i could just install it, no need for an extra image)
<uhhimhere> im talking about the hardware not the OS
<ogra_> now i lost you i think ... i thought we talk aboout phone hardware
<ogra_> running ubuntu ...
<uhhimhere> komodo dragons!
<elimisteve> Hi everyone. I'm in the US and am interested in running Ubuntu Touch on a phone. Do you think buying a used Nexus 4 is my best bet, or would you recommend waiting for the new phones coming out?
<elimisteve> the Nexus 4 has similar specs to the Aquaris
<elimisteve> sounds like whatever Meizu releases will have better specs
<ogra_> the nexus4 definitely has higher specs than the aquaris ;)
<elimisteve> double the RAM is the big one
<elimisteve> but the battery, screen size, and processor speed are very similar
<ogra_> more performant CPUs is the other ;)
<ogra_> and it has a way higher res display ...
<ogra_> ... yet ... ubuntu performs a lot better on the bq
<ogra_> :)
<elimisteve> the video I saw made it look like there was similar performance between the Aquaris and the Nexus 4
<elimisteve> the Nexus 4 will run on US networks, but I'll probably just tether to my Nexus 5 anyway, and any of these phones will support wifi, so having 3G or 4G working isn't much of a concern
<ogra_> there are images for the nexus5 by the community
<elimisteve> Does it seem like it'll be feasible to get an Ubuntu phone -- either the BQ one or the Meizu one -- in the US within the next 3 months?
<ogra_> iirc even multirom ones
<elimisteve> ogra_: I looked into the Nexus 5 image a few months ago and it sounded too buggy to be a daily driver yet
<ogra_> i'm not sure about the distribution to US, the meizu will support is frequencies though
<ogra_> the bq doesnt, you will be bound to edge
<Rubesman> i use it on my nexus 4 as daily driver
<elimisteve> Rubesman: interesting, even without 4G?
<ogra_> yeah, the N4 should run fine ... there is just not as much optimization of the HW stack as there is in the bq
<elimisteve> ogra_: think the Meizu will support US frequencies? I hadn't heard anything fully confirmed about their device
<ogra_> i'm pretty sure it will
<svij> the Meizu one will be the MX4 running ubuntu
<elimisteve> svij: isn't that still a rumor at this stage? A year ago it looked like the MX3 would be running Ubuntu
<ogra_> but i cant tell you if/when there will be US distribution channels ...
<elimisteve> and some has speculated that the M1 Note will run Ubuntu
<ogra_> a lot has been speculated :)
<elimisteve> ogra_: the Nexus 4 has been the only officially-supported phone to run Ubuntu for a long time. Are you sure it's not as optimized as the Aquaris?
<ogra_> elimisteve, yes
<elimisteve> ogra_: a lot has, which is why I'm trying to figure out what's confirmed
<svij> elimisteve: well cristian parrino and jane silber told me that
<svij> that it is the MX4
<elimisteve> svij: do you know if the MX4 is confirmed? I saw a nicely-made/almost-official-looking video made of the MX4 running Ubuntu
<elimisteve> well they would know :-)
<svij> exactly
<elimisteve> they said that recently?
<svij> on fridays ubuntu phone launch event, yes
<ogra_> the only officially confirmed thing is the aquaris ... the semi official thing is what svij told you :)
<elimisteve> okay :-D thanks
<elimisteve> hmmm
<svij> they even told that during an interview with me, which I will publish soon
<elimisteve> Rubesman: how do you like your N4 running Ubuntu Touch?
<ogra_> but again, you might need someone in europe to buy it for you if you want it urgently ... it might still take a while for US distribution
<elimisteve> svij: excellent, thanks. Do you havea Twitter feed or blog where you will announce this?
<svij> elimisteve: @svijee on twitter, svij.org or just planet.ubuntu.com
<elimisteve> ogra_: I have a friend in London who may be able to buy it for me...
<elimisteve> svij: great thank you
<ogra_> elimisteve, cool
<elimisteve> hmm, decisions decisions
<elimisteve> sounds like the Meizu phone will be announced within the next month or so, yes?
<svij> (they also told me, that the release for US is planned hopefully for july)
<svij> elimisteve: MWC
<elimisteve> I think I looked up the MWC dates and it's in a month or so
<elimisteve> svij: you think the US release is that soon?! For the MX4?
<Rubesman> does somebody know if were likely to get the new today and nearby scopes on the nexus 4?
<ogra_> well, selling the bq in the US wouldnt make much sense ;)
<ogra_> Rubesman, perhaps cwayne can tell you ... he is in a US timezone though, you might need to wait
<Rubesman> thanks!
<svij> elimisteve: not sure if its the mx4, need to listen to that interview again
<ogra_> if bq releases them i doubt they wil do it before the first devices are sold though
<elimisteve> Rubesman: on an Ubuntu On Air episode I saw a week or so ago, they talked about sending out OTA updates to all Ubuntu phones every 4 weeks
<ogra_> elimisteve, yep, thats the plan
<elimisteve> every other 2-week release
<ogra_> ubuntu fo phones is a truely rolling release
<ogra_> the frequency of releases only depends on the speed that QA can be done
<Rubesman> i think thats the best thing to do with a mobile operating system
<elimisteve> ogra_: think the Ubuntu desktop will soon be a rolling release?
<elimisteve> that's also rumored
<ogra_> i truely hope so
<ogra_> once the phone and desktop use the same underlying technology
<mcphail> Im not so sure about rolling release for phones. Frequent updates (with lots of QA) are fine, but rolling release with the potential for breakage is not so fine
<Scooty-loo> cell phones too much random hardware
<Rubesman> hm maybe
<ogra_> mcphail, if your QA is good there is no breakage
<Scooty-loo> So another question, currently commercially available ubuntu touch, can ones install command line/daemon stuffs from it's repo? Like lighttpd, screen, nano etc.
<Rubesman> you have to do a rather conservative and restrictive RR
<ogra_> yes
<mcphail> ogra_: no QA is close to perfect. We've had a few occasionas of brokX on the desktop release. Broken phone is much more serious
<mcphail> *broken
<Scooty-loo> sounds cool, less hassle to deploy those on android
<ogra_> it means that you review and test every new line of code *before* it even enters the image
<Rubesman> scooty: should be possible would think
<ogra_> then again in context of the image
<ogra_> and then again in context of alkl other changes that land in the same image
<ogra_> if oyu pass these tests it is releasable
<mcphail> ogra_: I admire your optimism!
<ogra_> adn indeed each new functionality can only land if a proper test comes alongside
<ogra_> mcphail, i'm describing what we do :)
<ogra_> this is 100% different from how the desktop is produced
<mcphail> ogra_: I don't doubt your process, but I think your faith in testing is misplaced. Tests never cover every situation.
<ogra_> no, they dont
<ogra_> which is why you have step-wise-miletones and dogfooders
<elimisteve> ogra_: relying on QA isn't good enough; don't want to brick 10,000 phones in a day. Transactional updates sound perfect and much-needed
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> snappy is the next step :)
<elimisteve> I sure hope so
<elimisteve> that's awesome
<mcphail> ogra_: i think a 2 weekly schedule might just work. OTOH, the cyanogenmod chaps manage to break android with alarming frequency with a 4-weekly release
<ogra_> we have a 2 weekly schedule for milestones ... based on daily builds ... one of these 2 werekly milestones becomes the monthly release
<ogra_> (and at some point we have snappy with rollback and transactional updates that will cover for any possible issue that might slip throuh)
<svij> that sounds cool
<mcphail> yes - snappy should be great
<svij> and snappy and ubuntu phone are merging in some kind of way, right?
<Rubesman> ah forgot to answer elimisteve: I love ubuntu on my n4. It gets almost everything done quietly. Everything works rather smoothly
<ogra_> well, snappy is an evolution of the current phone technology, yes, the plan is to merge it back in
<elimisteve> Rubesman: that's great. What do you think is the single biggest thing Ubuntu Touch is missing right now?
<elimisteve> I want encrypted SMS and IMing
 * ogra_ whispers whatsapp :P
<Rubesman> for me it would be textsecure
<elimisteve> sounds like neither exist right now (encrypted SMS nor IMing)
<ogra_> (not that i ever used it, but thats the biggest request we get)
<elimisteve> obviously https://whispersystems.org/blog/whatsapp/ is awesome
<elimisteve> any idea if that's fully rolled out?
<ogra_> elimisteve, on the auqaris telegram is preinstalled
<Rubesman> yeah but telegram should be doing encrypted texting right?
<elimisteve> if I can use WhatsApp and know my messages are encrypted, I'm happy
<ogra_> right
<Rubesman> i dont like the whatsapp thing
<Rubesman> got out of that one or two years ago
<elimisteve> Rubesman: why?
<Rubesman> even if whispersystems teams up with them
<Rubesman> its still closed source
<rubenlagus> elimisteve, how can u know the messages are encrypted?
<popey> https://twitter.com/ubuntu/status/565103224265637889
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to:  | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | On sale 20150211!
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to:  | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | On (flash)sale 20150211!
<popey> :D
<Rubesman> its just not my idea of encryption, security and so on
<Stskeeps> good luck!
 * mcphail hopes for a non-twitter link he can access at work...
<popey> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<popey> there you go
<mcphail> ta!
<popey> np
<svij> "We're excited to announce that limited Ubuntu phones will be available to buy between 9am - 6pm (CET) tomorrow via @bqreaders #ubuntuphone"
<elimisteve> rubenlagus: you can try sniffing your own traffic to see if your messages are encrypted. How is this different from any other app? Although... WhatsApp is closed source, huh :-\
<elimisteve> popey: thank you!
<popey> \o/ telegram
<elimisteve> "
<elimisteve> Ubuntu Store is growing every day. Although apps like WhatsApp, Google+ or Candy Crush arenÂ´t here yet, you get many others such as Telegram, HERE Maps, Cut the Rope and web apps like Facebook and Twitter.
<rubenlagus> It would be better (imo) if I could check in sources that nothing is sent "undercover"... That's why I prefer Telegram
<elimisteve> interesting salespitch...
<Rubesman> is it really growing?
<popey> yes
<elimisteve> rubenlagus: Telegram's crypto hasn't been really vetted has it? Lots of criticisms of its competition thing where they'll pay people who find vulnerabilities
<popey> http://popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/graph_clicks.png
<popey> ^ growing :)
<Rubesman> seams more like plus one or two apps a week
<Rubesman> not my idea of growing
<ybon> we more and more need the "last apps" feed ;)
<popey> ybon: seen https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps ?
<elimisteve> popey: in what area do you think is Ubuntu Touch most deficient, app-wise? And which apps do you think are needed that you fear won't be released for a while?  In short, what's important and not being done?
<popey> has a "sort by newest first" option
<ogra_> svij, lol (G+)
<popey> elimisteve: games games games
<svij> ogra_: couldn't resist ;)
<ybon> popey: han, no, never seen that, very nice, thanks :)
<popey> np
<popey> svij: nice!
<ogra_> yeah, if enough people re-share it your stream looks like a website from the 90s
<svij> haha
<ogra_> :)
<elimisteve> popey: I'm a Go developer who doesn't like games :-). What else is missing? Communications? Productivity? Seems like music is well-covered...
<rubenlagus> elimisteve, I like that way of "test" encryption. People use to work harder when there is a price. Even though, during last context, noone was able to break it
<Scooty-loo> sounds like there are enough apps already to switch over from iPhone already, but might get a second hand android e4.5 in the mean time if the image is released
<Rubesman> elimisteve: what i really really dont like besides not having textsecure is the rather barebone web browser
<Rubesman> is there a plan for rolling out firefox or chrome (-ium)
<elimisteve> Rubesman: I heard a positive comment about the browser before. Is it fast but not full-featured enough? What's missing?
<elimisteve> running FF or Chromium -- open source only! -- would rock
<elimisteve> Rubesman: I understand that it's a basic WebKit-based browser
<ogra_> no, it isnt
<Rubesman> elimisteve: yeah fast but no custom search engine afaik, no adblock functionality, ...
<ogra_> it uses our own engine ... called oxide, based on blink
<mcphail> presumably you can edit /etc/hosts for adblocking?
<ogra_> (way way faster than any webkit solution)
<elimisteve> ogra_: I dug around in https://launchpad.net/webbrowser-app and read something about webkit, I believe
<Scooty-loo> ogra:oh my yet another fork
<Rubesman> how to change standard search engine?
<ogra_> elimisteve, it started on webkit 2 years ago ... probably there are still fragments
<popey> elimisteve: I'd also like to see some frameworks ported.
<elimisteve> popey: what kinds of frameworks?
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, fork ? its development from scratch
<popey> elimisteve: rather than individual apps, port frameworks (e.g. like kivy, love [when talking about games specifically]) so others can port their games easily
<elimisteve> I see
<elimisteve> think there will be Unity3D support any time soon?
<Scooty-loo> ogra_:I mean the web engine
<popey> thats my personal opinion anyway
<elimisteve> I assume not
<mcphail> popey: does it have SDL2?
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, yeah, me too
<Scooty-loo> ogra_:hmm kay
<popey> mcphail: yes, sdl2 supports mir
<mcphail> cool - my pong game is going stright on my phone when i get it!
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, it uses blink as a base and adds bits on top, i doubt anyone else does something like that or uses blink at all (well, except google)
<Rubesman> yay! pong rocks!
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: So the blink part could be updated independently
<elimisteve> popey: sounds like there aren't very many scopes yet. I hope they get leveraged to great effect so that people feel like Ubuntu Touch has something unique and valuable
<elimisteve> ogra_: Opera uses Blink now, or at least they said they would be
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, oxide could ... yes
<Rubesman> yeah scopes have great potential i think
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, if you update blink you indeed have to re-build the whole engine :)
<Rubesman> got used to using them already but id love to get the today scope
<mcphail> I'm very keen to hack for this OS, but until I get my hands on a device I don't really understand the best approach
<ogra_> mcphail, on what level do you want to hack on it ?
<Scooty-loo> ogra: got the idea, thanks
<Rubesman> how difficult would it be to develop scopes? im not really into that stuff but open to learning it
<popey> Rubesman: http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277 "Create an Ubuntu Scope in minutes"
<elimisteve> mcphail: same here. Been looking at Go + QML, and it's cool and impressive (thank you niemeyer ), but I need to buy a Nexus 4 or something so I can spot shortcomings for myself and get excited about filling in gaps and hopefully genuinely innovating
<davidcalle> Rubesman, there is a pretty easy path right now, but limited to a certain type of scopes : http://chrismwayne.com/?p=277
<mcphail> ogra_: that's the thing: whether to write "apps" or not. I'm not sure how these "scopes" work yet and whether that approacgh is better
<Rubesman> thanks!
<ogra_> mcphail, read the link popey posted :)
<elimisteve> ogra_: popey I've installed ubuntu-sdk and an emulator. Is there full OS emulation, or do we just run individual apps?
<popey> both
<davidcalle> Rubesman, if you want to dive in further : take a look at this tutorial (even if you don't know C++, it covers the full process) https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/write-a-json-scope-in-cpp/
<ogra_> mcphail, thats the easy way ... you could indeed do plain C++ development if you like
<elimisteve> if the whole OS image is the same in the emulator as it is on physical devices, then mcphail and I can learn a ton in the emulator before we have devices
<Rubesman> many thanks again!
<mcphail> ogra_: the development process isn't the hurdle - I just haven't got the concept of what scopes actually _do_ yet. Until I get a device to play with I'm a bit stuck
<cyberjunkie> hey all
<Rubesman> again, get your hands on a nexus 4
<elimisteve> mcphail: sounds like we can run the full OS in the emulator!
<mcphail> elimisteve: have you used the emulator? Does it run better than the android one?
<Rubesman> should be pretty cheap to by second hand right now
<davidcalle> mcphail, if you are running 14.10 or 15.04, you can install unity-scopes-tool to try some of the new scopes (without a full blown emulator, just the scopes part)
<ogra_> mcphail, nope, it doesnt
<mcphail> davidcalle: do i need to be running unity-8 for that? just crashes on my box
<elimisteve> Rubesman: ~$125-160 USD for a used Nexus 4 where I am (California)
<davidcalle> mcphail, nope works well under unity (probably other desktops too)
<mcphail> davidcalle: ok - will check that out when I'm back home tomorrow
<mcphail> davidcalle: thanks
<davidcalle> mcphail, np
<Rubesman> got mine for 120 â¬ about a year ago, so i guessed it wouldve decreased in price
<Rubesman> scopecreator should be loaded to the AUR to get arch users more involved id think, they seem to be rather active, even if theyre not so into the ubuntu concept
<elimisteve> scopecreator looks amazing
<Rubesman> ellimisteve: yep, ill be trying that thing i think
<elimisteve> popey: I've been thinking how Ubuntu Touch can effectively compete against Android, and was wondering if there are effective ways to run Ubuntu desktop apps on the phone, so that, just like with Scopes, we don't _need_ hundreds of thousands of new apps to be created. And if using existing GUIs isn't possible, is it possible to auto-generate them, or automatically port them somehow?
<elimisteve> I'm a programmer but don't understand the lay of the land as far as X/Mir/Wayland/Unity 7/Unity 8 and how all that affects which GUIs can run where
<popey> in theory you can, with xmir
<popey> willcooke made a funky video showing it I think
<elimisteve> willcooke: you ran Ubuntu desktop apps on Ubuntu Touch?
<elimisteve> is there a major performance hit when running xmir on Ubuntu Touch? Why do you say "in theory" :-)
<elimisteve> not a good idea for some reason?
<mcphail> elimisteve: there are a few rough edges with conventional ubuntu desktop applications (dialog boxes extending over edges of small screens etc) which are irritating on desktop but would be awful on a phone.
<elimisteve> "XMir has been around for a while to run legacy X applications atop Mir"
<popey> in theory because we dont ship xmir by default
<ogra_> you could ship it inside your click package ...
<elimisteve> mcphail: I know there would be some usability issues. Like small buttons that could be feasibly clicked but not tapped
<mcphail> elimisteve: and sliders...
<ogra_> not sure if apparmor lets you run it then though
<elimisteve> "Will Cooke, the Ubuntu Desktop Engineering Manager at Canonical, posted to his Google+ page today about the progress in running X apps on Ubuntu Phone." https://plus.google.com/u/0/+WillCooke/posts/eNUArFBzh3W
<elimisteve> "we're doing a lot of work in Gtk to allow it to work on Mir natively, so no need for Xmir (not quite there yet)"
<elimisteve> hmmm
<mcphail> Is this channel logged with the other #ubuntu-* channels? Lots of links I need to check out tomorrow
<ogra_> elimisteve, right, Qt an GTK will work natively
<popey> yes
<ogra_> mcphail, yes, itz is
<elimisteve> popey: so it's possible to make GTK and Qt run on Mir natively, and not have to change every individual GTK/Qt-using desktop Ubuntu app so that it can run on Ubuntu Touch?
<mcphail> thanks
<ogra_> elimisteve, exactly ...
<elimisteve> ogra_: sweet!
<ogra_> elimisteve, XMir is for the rest of applications
<ogra_> so that you can still run xfig and xpdf :)
<ogra_> (and libreoffice or firefox)
<popey> xeyes!
<elimisteve> ah okay
<ogra_> not to forget the always importan xeyes indeed
<ogra_> and xteddy !
<elimisteve> ogra_: do you think XMir + Firefox + MX4 would be performant enough to use?
<ogra_> elimisteve, yes, but not a pleasure :)
<elimisteve> due to speed or some other factor?
<ogra_> due to needing a looking glass for finding window borders etc
<mcphail> elimisteve: firefox on arm is slow and really needs a couple of GB of RAm to get going
<ogra_> :)
<ogra_> mcphail, i used firefox on my pandaboard just fine for a while
<elimisteve> ha, that's OK though; full-screen is fine
<ogra_> its not that slow
<mcphail> ogra_: I've never been so lucky
<mcphail> ogra_: i like the mobile browser on android, though
<ogra_> i love the ubuntu browser on ubuntu :)
<elimisteve> ha
 * mcphail would love to try it :)
<ogra_> stillÃ¶ has some UI bits that could be solved better, but its fast and slim
<Riddell> would anyone have pointers on how to remix the ubuntu touch images like is done on this server? http://system-image.tasemnice.eu
<ogra_> Riddell, that server just uses the rootfs from the ubuntu one
<ogra_> the only thing it "remixes" is the device tarball
<ogra_> the rest is just mirrored and re-signed
<Riddell> right, and for a kubuntu image I want to take the tasemnice remixed device tar and remix the rootfs
<ogra_> Riddell, you want to talk to Tassadar (if he shows up, i have seen him rarely around recently) ... he runs that server
<ogra_> heh, thats a remix remix :)
<elimisteve> meta ftw
<Riddell> am I right in thinking ubuntu-system-image is used to setup the files on the system-image server?
<ogra_> Riddell, so i guess you want to simply do the same he does (there was a blog post how he set up the server) and just pull in a different rootfs tarball
<ogra_> right
<elimisteve> I looked around and couldn't find any mention of a voice-to-text feature on Ubuntu Touch
<elimisteve> ogra_: is the UT keyboard any good? No voice input though yet, right?
<ogra_> if a new tarball shows up at the source location, it pulls that in, unpacks it, diffs it against the last images and packages that up
<ogra_> elimisteve, yeah, no voice yet, the keyboard is fine imho
<elimisteve> ogra_: anyone tried copying Swype? SwiftKey?
<ogra_> i dont think so ... and due to the nature of click apps it would be hard to push to the store atm
<elimisteve> push keyboard apps to the store?
<popey> swype is based off maliit isn't it?
<popey> yeah, apps are confined.
<ogra_> click apps are not allowed to replace system components and run in a confined environment
<popey> some app categories haven't been worked out uet
<popey> *yet
<ogra_> right
<elimisteve> popey: worked out as far as security/permissions?
<elimisteve> ogra_: yeah I was reading about AppArmor and app confinement
<Elleo> elimisteve: saidinesh5 is working on an open source swype implementation with a maliit plugin
<ogra_> you could easily create an unconfined click package ... but thatz wouldnt be allowed into the store ... you would have to sideload it
<elimisteve> ogra_: good to know, thanks
<mcphail> ogra_: any plans to change that - with whatever union/overlayfs is currently fashionable, for example?
<elimisteve> Elleo: very cool. saidinesh5: think your Swype clone keyboard app be done within the next, say, 6 months?
<saidinesh5> elimisteve: i hope so. the engine part is almost over. the maliit part is left
<elimisteve> saidinesh5: very cool
<Riddell> ogra_: do you know where Vojtech Bocek's blog post is? I can't find his blog
<ogra_> mcphail, i doubt there will ever be direct access to anything on the phone ... you will have to go through interfaces ... not all of them are defined yyet
<saidinesh5> obligatory link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o0g6Ks6sg1Y :P
<elimisteve> Riddell: https://tasssadar.github.io/ ?
<elimisteve> ogra_: using interfaces sounds clean and secure
<ogra_> elimisteve, right
<elimisteve> Is it possible to set new default apps for, say, web browsing?
<elimisteve> Where can I read about the UT intent system, or whatever it uses?
<elimisteve> MultiROM is a multi-boot solution for several devices, I officially support Nexus 7 2012 & 2013, Nexus 4 and Nexus 5
<elimisteve> "It can boot any Android ROM as well as other systems like Ubuntu Touch, once they are ported to that device."
<elimisteve> awesome. Anyone here tried using Android 4.4 + MultiROM + Ubuntu Touch on a Nexus 5?
<Elleo> elimisteve: I think there's quite a few people using multirom and ubuntu touch on nexus 5s (not sure about specific android versions)
<Elleo> elimisteve: one thing to be aware of that the nexus 5 image is a community port, and while it's probably the best community port it does have some issues with hardware support (e.g. I don't think it handles deep sleep at the moment, so battery life isn't great)
<saidinesh5> elimisteve: just don't do apt-get upgrade on a multirom
<saidinesh5> well apt-get is a little weird on multirom, because if it tries to update /boot/ your device is bricked
<ogra_> Riddell, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg06721.html
<Scooty-loo> saidinesh5:does mount ro helps?
<seb128> how does an application get to call something when focussed out?
<Riddell> ogra_: ooh lovely thanks
<elimisteve> Elleo: thanks. I've read that bluetooth isn't supported either on the Nexus 5, but that may be old info
<saidinesh5> by default it is mount ro afaik. you can do apt-get update only if  you enable the developer mode
<Scooty-loo> sounds like stick to a single kernel is way safer. Talking about that, 'how android' still is ubuntu touch?
<ogra_> Riddell, iirc there were two more mails from him on the ML one with more detailed setup info later
<Elleo> seb128: do you mean call something as it loses focus? if so you can connect to a chance in Qt.active
<Scooty-loo> Been a while looking into the details since I don't have any nexus devices, does ubuntu touch still use android style boot image as a standard?
<Elleo> seb128: but you only have a couple of seconds to do something in before being suspended
<seb128> Elleo, is that being called as well if somebody close the application for the switcher?
<Elleo> seb128: I'm not sure
<seb128> Elleo, I'm going to try the Qt.active thing, thanks
<seb128> Elleo, do you know if we have an example of code doing that?
<muyiscoi> I can't seem to get bluetooth to work on my nexus 4.
<muyiscoi> When
<muyiscoi> When I toggle the switch from the notification panel, it goes back off on its own
<muyiscoi> I'm on Ubuntu 14.10 (r15)
<Elleo> seb128: I can write an example quickly, I think there's a few apps that monitor it as well (like machines vs machines for switching off music, etc.)
<seb128> Elleo, don't bother, I think I can figure it out, thanks!
<Elleo> seb128: okay, cool
<popey> muyiscoi: when you toggle it, leave it for a moment, it may toggle back off then on again
<Elleo> seb128: sorry, that should be Qt.application.active not Qt.active
<elimisteve> saidinesh5: apt-get update? or do you mean upgrade? mean upgrade?
<saidinesh5> upgrade itself. basically any update to the kernel /grub etc...
<saidinesh5> anything that touches the /boot/ partition
<ogra_> you should only use apt if you dont plan to actually use the phone as a phone ...
<ogra_> or writable-mode rather
<muyiscoi> @popey it came on after I put the phone off and on. Restarting the phone didn't do anything. Had to power off and on
<Scooty-loo> ogra: interesting, are security updates delivered in another way?
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, yes, as image diffs ... as soon as you switch to apt or writable mode image diffs will break whatever you do ... apt upgrades will break as well at some point
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: oh my, sounds nasty
<ogra_> apt and writable mode is fine if you want to work on the plumbing layer of the phone or do some "special" stuff (someone here runs a tomcat server on an N4 for their company) ;)
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: tomcat jre arm and floating point programs
<ogra_> but then you cant count on being able to upgrade anymore
<mcphail> ogra_: it would be great if you could union-mount a writable layer over the base layer, thereby allowing binary diffs of the stock image but preserving the ability to apt-get over the top
<ogra_> if you apply the image diff on top of a writeble image your apt database gets overwritten with an empty one from the diff
<ogra_> mcphail, then you lose control about what is writable (which would be fine, apparmor could handle that with a complex config) ... and it makes it really hard to port since your kernel must support whatever unionfs implementation is in use
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: why do apt-get breaks eventually when ones only update non boot related packages? Like locking up boot related packages
<ogra_> that latter bit is quite a showstopper with the kind of kernels you find on a phone
<mcphail> ogra_: but the kernel layer wouldn't have to change from stock, and whatever union/overlayfs is supported would provide the writable layer over /usr and /etc
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, to unpack a deb on upgrade, dpkg needs to create hard links ... the wriable bits in the image are all bind mounts into a writable space on disk (different partition) ... hardlinks do not work across partition boundaries ... so your unpack fails
<ogra_> this will happen to you the first time an installed package that uses any writable bits gets upgraded
<ogra_> so with luck you can use apt-get upgrade 10 times ... the 11th one fails because there is such a package in the update
<elimisteve> ogra_: but apt-get update and installing other packages is fine, right? Are you just saying that kernel upgrades are the dangerous part?
<ogra_> the current setup makes it easy for you to hack ... but in "hack mode" it isnt really suited for using it under the original purpose (as a phone)
<mcphail> :)
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: hmm...but, like the mediatek chip BQ is shipping out, they are not too happy with sources. Would it be a bit more time consuming if one update requires BQ doing them job...and how hard is it to put everything back to a single partition?
<ogra_> elimisteve, you can indeed install other packages, but if you would do an image upgrade your apt db is wiped ... the package manager wouldnt know about the packages you installed anymore
<ogra_> and if you use apt for upgrading it will eventually break for the above reasons
<elimisteve> kk thanks
<ogra_> so technically you lose the ability to upgrade by making the system writable
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: I mean, mtk is not happy with their sources most of the time, so far only more open to Android ONE
<ogra_> Riddell, ^^^ there is Tassadar :)
<mcphail> ogra_: sounds as if the first problem could be solved with an incron job to back up the apt db on changes and a script to restore after image upgrade
<Scooty-loo> mcphail: but new image ships with new packages ie. edited database
<mcphail> Scooty-loo: that sounds like a poor design decision
<svij> is it known, that ubuntu phone displays one WLAN-SSID twice, if it is running on two different channels?
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: but again, why even ship it with apt, when it's only used for cooking the image. IMO, apt should be staying on the user data partition
<ogra_> mcphail, you could "solve" it in tons of hacky ways ... point is that ubuntu phone is not designed for apt use ... it is a nice extra feature for developers and hackers though
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, apt will go away eventually ... snappy doesnt ship apt or dpkg
<mcphail> ogra_: fair enough
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: ugh, then it's more like an android phone isn't it...
<ogra_> not really :)
<ogra_> it will just use the next generation package manager then :)
<ogra_> you do snappy install libreoffice ... instead of apt-get install libreoffice
<mcphail> ogra_: I had imagined the setup would be more like the desktop live CDs where you had a base image and a union-mounted FS which could be hacked and upgrade on top
<ogra_> and wont need to make anything writable at all
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: Sorry but it's the first time I heard about it, is there a documentation about snappy?
<ogra_> mcphail, as i said, that would mean heavy kernel patching
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, sure, there is even an irc channel next door ;)
<ogra_> #snappy
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: got it, thanks
<ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: cheers
<elimisteve> ogra_: how long you think till the phone uses snappy?
<mcphail> ogra_: if i was, say, writing a game in C on SDL, and needed a particular library as a dependency would that have to be statically linked or can snappy provide the shared libraries?
<ogra_> elimisteve, no idea ... we will start porting it soon, but hard to say how long that takes
<ogra_> mcphail, either :)
<ogra_> mcphail, up to you ... you can either link statically or ship the libs inside your snap package
<mcphail> ogra_: OK - so each game would ship with a whole runtime within the package? Does snappy perform deduplication to save space?
<ogra_> snappy allows frameworks so you could indeed have your python based snap just use the python framework
<ogra_> (and ship only the additionally needed python plugins in your package)
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: sounds like something would make debian admins confused for a moment when switching on a random day tho ha
<ogra_> nah
<mcphail> Scooty-loo: ogra_: yes - just a different way of working. I like the idea of containers etc
<ogra_> the cool thing about snaps is that you can put *anything* insdie them ... it could be a whole OS install running in a container
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: I mean like me, who never heard of snappy, decided to give ubuntu a test run on a random day
<ogra_> so effectively that makes it a lot easier for admins
<ogra_> snappy install my-webmail-server
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: Hey I thought ubuntu runs debian *confus*
<uhhimhere> hows that any diff from apt-get
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: nah just the initial confusion
<uhhimhere> so is aptitude officially dead then?
<ogra_> and look you gotr a kolab instance up and running fully configured with mysql, apache, imap and smtp server
<mcphail> uhhimhere: it is just pining for the fjords
<k1l> isnt aptitude dead since some time now? i thought after that issues with multiarch
<ogra_> and if you want you make your snap depend on the docker framework and it runs inside a container
<mcphail> k1l: no - it is back, apparently
<ogra_> aptitude was never really alive in ubuntu :)
<ogra_> (it was there because a part of the installer used it though ... )
<uhhimhere> i still use aptitude to search and show
<uhhimhere> but dont have the guts to use it to actually install anything
<Scooty-loo> I thought we use dpkg to look into packages
<ogra_> butr no, apt or aptitude wont go away
<Scooty-loo> haha
<ogra_> nor will dpkg
<mcphail> uhhimhere: I've been assured in #ubuntu it is fully supported again and the multiarch issues are resolved
<ogra_> the archive as you know it will go on to exist
<ogra_> (snappy images are still built from it)
<ogra_> and we cant really force all flavours to use snappy if tehy dont want ... like we dont force anyone to use Mir
<ogra_> so the existing archive will persist
<mcphail> Having said all this, when I get my hands on a BQ device and break it on day one by using apt, is it simple to reflash to stock?
<Scooty-loo> right, flavors like xubuntu which I'm using. grabbing a kvm image to test it out tho
<Scooty-loo> mcphail: bq still haven't release any image
<mcphail> Scooty-loo: that's a worry :)
<Scooty-loo> mcphail: http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<popey> Scooty-loo: "still" - they haven't shipped a device yet :)
<ogra_> mcphail, yes, it is trivial to re-flash
<Scooty-loo> mcphail: but they are preparing their page, which is kinda hidden atm
<Scooty-loo> mcphail: just randomly found it poking URLs
<ogra_> you can just use ubuntu-device-flash to flash an image from the ubuntu server
<k1l> Scooty-loo: starting the sale tomorrow
<ogra_> for the preinstalled bq phones that is
<mcphail> ogra_: nice
<ogra_> for the android version it will need a bq flahs image initially
<ogra_> then you can do the same
<mcphail> ogra_: can you cache the image locally? I spend a lot of time away from internet access
<ogra_> it gets cached on disk, yeah
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: a mtk-flash-tool package would sound nice too
<ogra_> and thanks to delta uprades it is usually also very small if you regulary update
<mcphail> ogra_: so a further "ubuntu-device-flash" wouldn't always need net access?
<ogra_> it might need to check versions etc from the server, not sure
<popey> be nice to have an offline mode for u-d-f
<mcphail> ogra_: an offline mode would be great
<ogra_> but it wont do any downloading if the tarball or diff tarball is on disk already
<ogra_> well, i think if you give it an image number that is on disk already it wont need network
<ogra_> i just have never tried that :)
<Scooty-loo> #ubuntu-touch hype
<mcphail> ogra_: ha :)
<ogra_> i see a --download-only option in the help too
<ogra_> so i guess it works, but you need to hand over the version to supporess netwrok lookups
<ogra_> sergiusens could tell ... but he is off today
<Scooty-loo> $ ubuntu-device-flash
<Scooty-loo> The program 'ubuntu-device-flash' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
<Scooty-loo> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-device-flash
<mcphail> ogra_: good to know
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, you dont want it from the archive though ... thats most likely outdated ...
<ogra_> there is the phablet-tools PPA on launchpad wheer the recent versions live
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: whoops, will be updated when bq's model's out?
<ogra_> no
 * ogra_ would even prefer to drop it from the archive 
<ogra_> backporting SRUs is quite some paperwork ... PPAs are better in that regard
<Scooty-loo> wait is it not in 14.04's repo?
<Scooty-loo> well guess time and dev's efforts will sort everything out soon, especially with the release if the first consumer ubuntu phone
<Scooty-loo> of*
<svij> is it known, that ubuntu phone displays one WLAN-SSID twice, if it is running on two different channels?
<ogra_> svij, ask Wellark_ :) he maintains the network-indicator
<svij> i hope he sees it here
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/ In the settings ui, to enter in a subsection, do you want I use a new component (like it's history now) or do you want I do a custom implementation of ExpandablesColumn?
<rpadovani> actually, of Expandable
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, IÂ have not thought about it, whatever fits best the design and results in the least amount of code :)
<rpadovani> okay, thanks for the trust :-)
<zzarr> is freenode slow or is it my internet?
<ogra_> scrolls fine here :)
<zzarr> good :)
<zzarr> I have a Motorola Droid 4 (xt894) running Android 4.1.2, is it possible to install (build and install) Ubuntu touch on it?
<popey> !devices | zzarr
<ubot5> zzarr: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<zzarr> I know, but that page isn't updated in forever
<zzarr> My device is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/maserati
<Scooty-loo> well go ahead then, the link to the install guide is on there. Mind you, on the page you linked it says the porting is incomplete, got WIP parts
<Scooty-loo> and install will usually remove all android data
<Scooty-loo> so good luck and have fun
<ogra_> it is very likely the port is outdated though
<ogra_> most are
<zzarr> it's almost 2 years old
<zzarr> (2013-02-28)
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> that was still early developemnt
<ogra_> try it, but i wouldnt expect to much
<zzarr> I can try it, but not with a recent release
<Scooty-loo> any build guide on there?
<ogra_> not any recent one
<ogra_> things were changing to fast and everyone was busy
<ogra_> so whats there is pretty outdated  ... pretty much on the level of the above port
<Scooty-loo> guess some hacky job to done zzarr if you wanna try the latest release
<zzarr> how's drivers handled on a Ubuntu touch phone compared to a normal computer?
<Scooty-loo> they are hardware specific
<Scooty-loo> kernel source from supplier
<Scooty-loo> I don't think there's a generic image
<zzarr> okey, that's a problem I guess
<zzarr> is it possible to use a recent version of the CM kernel?
<Scooty-loo> think you need to make your own ramdisk
<ogra_> you need a lot more
<Scooty-loo> not sure if it will help, if you wanna do hacky thingy go see the old guide
<Scooty-loo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DeprecatedPorting
<zzarr> could I use the ramdisk from CM?
<Scooty-loo> could be a reference where you can start
<ogra_> you need the complete android HAL (hardware abstraction layer) ... that is ... binary drivers and a few daemons used to make them work
<Scooty-loo> well you need android with runtime shaved, which is in the system partition
<ogra_> exactly
<ogra_> we shave all unnecessary bits though, not just the runtime
<zzarr> okey, dose it matter what version of android I shave?
<Scooty-loo> and the the ubuntu part, as well as modified ramdisk to not load any android runtime bot launch chroot ubuntu
<Scooty-loo> look at that old guide..
<zzarr> I will
<Scooty-loo> looks like my knowledge with it stayed at 1.0 guide haha
<zzarr> lucky me I have safe strap :)
<zzarr> did you port a phone?
<muyiscoi> Does the phone support Bluetooth headsets? It's not recognizing mine and I can't seem to perform data transfer over bluetooth as well
<zzarr> Ubuntu touch to a phone
<Scooty-loo> mind you tho guide is old
<ogra_> muyiscoi, works fine here
<ogra_> i use hedsets and BT speakers regulary
<ogra_> i never tried data transfer though
<Scooty-loo> but it is indeed the current way of implementation, where there's android in a container to do daemon and drivers
<zzarr> It might work.... and if it dosn't... well it was worth a try
<Scooty-loo> good luck have fun
<zzarr> thanks
<ogra_> zzarr, note that we moved from CM to AOSP
<ogra_> so if you only have a CM tree that might mean some extra work
<zzarr> ahh, so I should use AOSP
<muyiscoi> ogra_: hmmm... wonder if its just mine. But mine works with my ubuntu laptop as well as Android. I guess I have to test it some more
<ogra_> muyiscoi, what phone is that ?
<eithne> hello, is it possible to install ubuntu on the S4 mini in some way?
<Scooty-loo> lol everyone started asking if xyz device is supported
<Scooty-loo> if there's source code, while no one on internet attempted porting as told by Google, it's time to try it yourself
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, because its not a beginner task and badly documented :)
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: yea...
<Scooty-loo> eithne: still if you wanna try, I think samsung got the kernel sources and pieces you need to trial and error :c
<zzarr> well, it looks like a big task, I'll have a go :)
<Scooty-loo> cya
<zzarr> but first... coffee :)
<ogra_> zzarr, you rock :)
<eithne> uhm..... I read on an italian site that an user succefully installed it on the S4 mini by modifying the build.prop
<eithne> But I have no more infos about it
<muyiscoi> ogra_ Nexus 4. Ubuntu 14.10 r15
<ogra_> muyiscoi, ah, i havent used an N4 in a while, perhaps it is broekn there
<muyiscoi> ogra_: ah! ok. are you using it on the BQ phone?
<ogra_> davmor2, ^^^ have you heard anything about broken BT on N4 ?
<ogra_> muyiscoi, yep
<Scooty-loo> eithne: doesn't sound like it, unless that device can have init.sh enabled through build.prop, that that guy killed android afterwards, chroot ubuntu touch components and start it
<Scooty-loo> eithne: in theory that is
<Scooty-loo> eithne: that's how people deploy DESKTOP EDITION ubuntu on mobile most of the time
<ogra_> yeah, that will not work for the phone edition
<davmor2> muyiscoi: what are you trying to do with bluetooth?
<ogra_> davmor2, headsets ... file transfers
<ogra_> (see above)
<kenvandine> BT was working for me on mako with vivid-proposed over the weekend
<muyiscoi> davmor2: I tried pairing my stereo bluetooth headset and it wasn't recognized.
<eithne> Idk what he did, but I know he followed that http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2587823
<adrian47> Boot animation was changed?
<muyiscoi> davmor2: then, i paired it with my nexus 5 and tried doing a file transfer, but couldn't find any way to do that. Then nexus 5 (running android) only recognized it as an audio device
<davmor2> muyiscoi: it is connecting to headsets here, computers for me are all greyed out that is fixed in vivid though
<ogra_> muyiscoi, you might want to switch to a different image channel
<ogra_> 14.10 r15 sounds like the RTM channel
<muyiscoi> davmor2: Ok. I'll test it out more later today. Don't have the phone on me ATM. I'll report back if its still not working
<kenvandine> all i did was connect a BT speaker and played music
<kenvandine> worked great
<muyiscoi> ogra_ yeah, if all else fails, i'll try changing to the dev channel
<Scooty-loo> eithne: seems that he's install nexus4 version of ubuntu touch on it. you can just follow it if you got the guts, and, well, odin
<dobey> ogra_: sounds like stable channel. i'd hope stable was stable and bt was working there. could just be the headset is doing something weird and the bluez configuration doesn't like it, too.
<Scooty-loo> eithne: I have no knowledge of the similarity of mini s4 and n4 so, well
<ogra_> dobey, well, stable just means "doesnt move"
<ogra_> which at the pace of fixes we roll isnt really an advantage (it will be one day, but not yet)
<Scooty-loo> eithne: I wouldn't recommend you to keep going tho, as the thread's op mentioned, he got an optimus G, which is basically n4's brother
<dobey> ogra_: well, it means "QA tested the image and approved it" so it should mean that connecting to a headset or such was done in that testing
<dobey> but maybe that's not being tested right now
 * dobey blames davmor2 
<Scooty-loo> eithne: and dual boot is actually placeing ubuntu's boot image onto recovery, with partition work and stuffs, which will basically break your mini s4
<ogra_> dobey, QA tested what was there, right
<davmor2> dobey: it is
<ogra_> but we havent released something in stable for quite a while
<davmor2> dobey: the RTM channel is the most tested channel
<dobey> our numbering scheme is a bit annoying too. it's hard to keep track of what's what when compared to other devices and such
<ogra_> well, most tested for krillin
<davmor2> dobey: it has gone through, silo, sanity, sanity for promotion (Mako, krillin, emulator), and then a 60 hour regression suite and then gets promoted and bluetooth is tested in sanity and regression and any silos :P
<Scooty-loo> well hope that eithne got the idea and not waste the time to break that mini s4
<ogra_> as lon as he knows how to fix it :)
<ogra_> *long
<dobey> although, now i'm wondering how to build an ubuntu-touch seed image for a panda board
<Scooty-loo> meh still a waste of time to go in completely trial and error
<adrian47> What should I have in /var/lib/ubuntu-location-service/config.ini ? (porting)
<davmor2> ogra_: how does your code every run when you can't type a single sentence without randomly dropping letters ;)
<davmor2> ever even
<ogra_> lol
<Scooty-loo> well I'm going enjoy ubuntu touch y'all while I will wait for more news on the e4.5, as well as it's android brother
<ogra_> typoing in such a question is pure irony :)
<ogra_> davmor2, interpreters and compilers are clever, they tell me ;)
<davmor2> ogra_: hahahaha
<Scooty-loo> davmor2: and IDE
<ogra_> my IDE is vim :)
<davmor2> Scooty-loo: real coders use vim :)
<davmor2> emacs at a push
<Scooty-loo> I ain't gonna do android apps with vim
<Scooty-loo> you can't make me
<Scooty-loo> just no
<ogra_> vim is great to make ubuntu apps ;)
<ogra_> (but the SDK is too i heard ... never used it)
<Scooty-loo> haha well bye
<Pensee> crowded there, HI ALL !!!
<ogra_> hello
<Pensee> newbee question (BQ phone), is it a voip software out yet (kind of xlite) ?
<ogra_> not yet, nope
<Pensee> is it a mail software to come ?
<ogra_> there is dekko in the store, its an awesome IMAP client ... still lacking some bits (i.e. encryption) though
<ogra_> and there is a gmail webapp
<Pensee> thank ogra_ you are very helpfull
<ogra_> :)
<rvr> bfiller: Silo 9 has been approved.
<bfiller> rvr: thanks
<Mirv> ...and published
<kenvandine> jgdx, are ready to land the other vibrations branch in vivid?
<jgdx> kenvandine, not yet
<jgdx> kenvandine, or, u-s-s is
<kenvandine> jgdx, i see all the other branches have been merged
<jgdx> kenvandine, not the last uitk one, though?
<kenvandine> bug 1358610
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1358610 could not be found
<kenvandine> the uss vivid branch is the only one linked that isn't merged
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> there isn't a uitk branch for vivid linked
<dobey> ogra_: do you think it would be easy to build a phone/tablet image that runs on a pandaboard, or would it make more sense to use the armhf desktop-next iso?
<jgdx> zsombi, could you link all vivid branches to bug 1358610 ?
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1358610 could not be found
<kenvandine> jgdx, ok, then no worries from me... whenever it's ready can you just add a silo for it?
<ogra_> dobey, neither will work, there are no drivers
<ogra_> or rather no kernel that supports an of the existing drivers
<jgdx> kenvandine, Yeah, really want this on vivid.
<ogra_> panda is dead an buried
<zsombi> jgdx: what do you mean? ^ bug bot didn't find that bug :)
<dobey> ogra_: oh. :-/
<ogra_> it went out of production over 2 years ago
<jgdx> zsombi, bugbot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/barajas/+bug/1358610
<ubot5> Error: launchpad bug 1358610 not found
<dobey> so did nexus 4 :P
<kenvandine> jgdx, i think rtm silo 7 needs a rebuild since the other vibrations silo landed
<ogra_> yeah, but there were a few more N4 sold than pandas
<jgdx> kenvandine, we're waiting on a fix for that one, so we need one anyway
<zsombi> jgdx: both UITK MRs are linked for loooong time to it :)
<dobey> but anyway, i have a panda board laying around that i won in orlando at UDS, and thought it might be good as a test platform for a device i want to build
<dobey> but i guess not
<jgdx> zsombi, not the haptics-feedback-singleton@vivid though?
<ogra_> panda should still work wioth the armhf d-i images if you supply the right devicetree to it
<kenvandine> zsombi, there are no branches linked for trunk
<ogra_> and i think lool was plainning a snappy port once he finds time :)
<ogra_> (probably never then)
<zsombi> jgdx: well, that is the same as this one, and it is not even MR-ed to Vivid, the RTM fix will be merged automatically on next Vivid landing
<dobey> heh
<dobey> i thought the upstream kernel had drivers for it
<ogra_> so for non graphical stuff the panda will likely still work
<kenvandine> zsombi, we need that so we can land uss in vivid
<jgdx> zsombi, woah, okay.
<ogra_> dobey, sure, juts no 3D
<zsombi> kenvandine: I don't get it... the two MRs were proposed for RTM, when those land there, those will be merged to trunk with a next staging landing
<zsombi> kenvandine: so then Vivid will get it
<zsombi> as well
<ogra_> for EGL/GLES you need the binary drivers ... and these need kernel patches the mainline kernel doesnt have
<kenvandine> zsombi, yeah, but when?
<dobey> i guess mir requires 3d though
<adrian47> So I got bootlogo now (porting), can someone help with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159865/
<kenvandine> we want to land the uss change in vivid
<kenvandine> we usually land in vivid before rtm, opposite of the uitk
<zsombi> kenvandine: after they land to RTM, we merge to staging, and then we land the current staging to Vivid, so few more days and it's there
<kenvandine> zsombi, so when will uitk get the landing in vivid?
<dobey> ogra_: is there a good cheap armv7 board that has open 3d drivers? or are they all binary?
<ogra_> they are all closed i think
<zsombi> kenvandine: there's a Vivid landing from staging even now, we used to do landings as soon as we get something to land
<kenvandine> ok, it has landed in rtm
<kenvandine> but just this morning
<adrian47> What should I fix first?
<akiva-thinkpad> Hey all: Live Ask Ubuntu Anything live in 30 minutes: http://ubuntuonair.com | #ubuntu-on-air
 * dobey wonders if the new raspberry pi 2 requires binary drivers
<zsombi> kenvandine: fione, so then we proceed with merging to staging
<kenvandine> cool
<kenvandine> i guess if the staging branch gets linked to the bug we'll know when it gets merged
<kenvandine> so we can land
<zsombi> kenvandine: yes, I can link those to the same bug if you want, though we also have a mirroring bug on UITK
<jgdx> please do, then we can track, and then we can land :)
<kenvandine> zsombi, i'd appreciate it
<jgdx> and then open beers
<kenvandine> i'm just trying to make sure our side doesn't fall through the cracks
<Scooty-loo> meh it will be mid night after 30 minutes and I have school tomorrow haha
<kenvandine> jgdx, that too :)
<zsombi> kenvandine: but you can land the scheme and uss separately, it won't make any harm...
<kenvandine> yeah, but i don't want the setting UI to show up before it'll work :)
<zsombi> kenvandine: as UITK landing may come with 2-3 days delay...
<kenvandine> then we get bug reports for it, etc
<zsombi> kenvandine: why not ;)
<ogra_> adrian47, looks pretty good, if you dont get graphics i'd start looking at the lightdm logs in /var/log and perhaps ask in #ubuntu-mir
<zsombi> kenvandine: it is iterative development ;)
<kenvandine> i really don't understand why uitk doesn't land in vivid first, it is our development branch :)
<kenvandine> seems backwards to me to land in rtm before development, but that's a different topic
<zsombi> kenvandine: because it has been requested with HI prio to RTM, and I don't know how's your code, but the toolkit code started to be pretty different, so cherry picking from Vivid would be painful
<dobey> oh i guess i can use the new armv7 raspberry pi
<zsombi> kenvandine: we've introduced shadow build support in Vivid, and that means some heavy changes in the scripts, project files, etc
<zsombi> beside some other stuff that made the toolkiit codebase to differ
<kenvandine> yeah, our delta has gotten pretty big
<kenvandine> but we're still able to cherry pick
<adrian47> ogra_: thanks, if you can look: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159985/  and  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/
<ogra_> adrian47, hmm, the first one actually looks like Mir started
<zsombi> kenvandine: not saying that we couldn't, but it takes more time than to integrate the RTM fixes into Vivid
<kenvandine> i just prefer getting more testing in devel before cherry picking to rtm
<ogra_> adrian47, you should see a spinning ubuntu logo if i read the second correctly
<kenvandine> anyway, that's a different topic :)
<ogra_> adrian47, if thats not the case then -> #ubuntu-mir
<adrian47> ogra_: yes i see spinning logo, it is suspending after some seconds and i can suspend it with power button too
<ogra_> oh, so your session simply doesnt start
<bzoltan_> kenvandine: cherry picking from the vivid UITK become a really heavy operation. Usually we need to dig down 3-4 MR deep. Not a cool thing.
<adrian47> ogra_: wake works too
<ogra_> adrian47, there are upstart logs for all the session bits in ~/.cache/upstart/ take a look around there ... if you got the spinner you are 90% there :)
<Scooty-loo> adrian47: just curious, what device is that?
<ogra_> ~ actually means /home/phablet btw ...
<adrian47> ogra_: few logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160233/
<mandel> Elleo, https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-download-manager/test-space-left/+merge/249093 updates, thx for the input.. that check against 0..  lord what was I thinking!
<adrian47> Scooty-loo: DHD for now, what will be next..  I'm not sure :)
<Elleo> mandel: my guess was that you subconciously were thinking you'd be dividing by the spaceFree and so were trying to avoid a divide by zero
<mandel> Elleo, that is the only logical explanation hhehe
<Elleo> :)
<Scooty-loo> whao that 5 years old phone sure get much community care!
<Elleo> mandel: what's the best way to test it?
<mandel> Elleo, well, add lots of music to your device to have less than 100mb left and try to download an img with the browser
<mandel> Elleo, you should get an error in that case
<Elleo> mandel: okay
<mandel> Elleo, thx
<seb128> calendar event reminders are supposed to have notifications with actions (snooze, dismiss) right? I currently don't get those on my krillin rtm... does anyone know how to debug?
<Scooty-loo> http://ubuntuonair.com/ lol he scared me as I left it on the background
<Scooty-loo> and gtg
<tsdgeos> renatu: https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/address-book-app/aim_is_not_aim/+merge/249161
<adrian47> oh, I pasted bad apparmor.log
<renatu> tsdgeos, thanks
<ogra_> adrian47, thats all system stuff ... the bits from /home/phablet/.cache/upstart/ are far more interesting
<ogra_> since you have issues with session startup ... session logs are all kept there
<adrian47> ogra_: sorry I copied bad logs
<adrian47> ogra_: I am usign rootstock installer that insterts all in system.img if it changes anything
<adrian47> ogra_:  .cache folder in /home/phablet doesn't exist
<ogra_> adrian47, hmm, thats weird
<ogra_> mterry, do you have any idea what coudl be wrong ? adrian47 is porting to a new device, he gets the spinner but no session seems to start
<ogra_> lightdm looks okayish
<ogra_> *lightdm.log
<mterry> adrian47, ogra_: normally in my experience that means no unity8 or not unity-system-compositor
<mterry> *no
<mterry> For a new device, I'm guessing Mir/unity-system-compositor is the culprit
<mterry> Though you are still getting the spinner.  So USC isn't completely dead
<Scooty-loo> oh have one curiosity, is bq's ubuntu touch based on MTK's 3.4.67 kernel source?
<anpok_> hm animated spinner means, usc runs but no unity8 connection to switch too?
<anpok_> *to
<ogra_> mterry, i would expect u-s-c to work if the spinner does
<ogra_> (which it obviously does)
<mterry> ogra_, yeah I tend to agree, but some part of nested Mir code may be having fits with two sessions
<mterry> anpok_, by and large yeah.  I wouldn't say Mir is obviously blameless, but u8 is a good guess
<ogra_> note that i think that apparmor isnt properly working with that kernel yet
<ogra_> but thjat shouldnt have impact on the unconfined parts
<mterry> anpok_, but if it's getting that far (to try and fail with u8), I would expect something in ~/.cache
<mterry> anpok_, just to confirm, USC has its own log in /var/log/lightdm/.  Make sure it looks good
<anpok_> mterry, you mean adrian47 ^
<mterry> anpok_, yup!  I do.  :)
<mterry> anpok_, saw an "a" person in the conversation and my brain switched  :)
<ogra_> "a" with number :)
<adrian47> mterry:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10159985/  and  http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/ :)
<Scooty-loo> on ubuntu live they are talking about how long will ubuntu-touch be supported
<Scooty-loo> said 5 years
<Scooty-loo> sounds like 5 years with same kernel 3.4.67 with mediatek...
<Scooty-loo> btw 3.4.67 is just my guess, since that's what manufacture used to ship android 4.4~4.4.4
<mterry> adrian47, all those "Seat seat0 changes active session to " lines look weird at the end, but besides that, it's normal
<mterry> adrian47, but what about the unity-system-compositor.log in that same directory?
<adrian47> mterry, i think that it is good http://paste.ubuntu.com/10160002/
<mterry> adrian47, yeah, shows that it never got a unity8 session request too
<mterry> adrian47, but the lightdm.log shows that it tried to start an upstart session for the user
<mterry> adrian47, so I'd look at why upstart isn't kicking off u8 and leaving logs about it
<mandel> ChickenCutlass, => https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-system-settings/download-checksum/+merge/249214
<ChickenCutlass> great
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, well, we might get security fixes for the kernels in case there are serious gaping security holes ... but beyond that there is no need for newer kernels if the HW doesnt change
<ogra_> (which it likely never will on a phone :) )
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: true c:
<Scooty-loo> Looks like I can't keep watching the stream, good day or good night depends on where you all are
<adrian47> mterry, thanks, it can be caused by readonly mounted system.img?
<ybon> Do we know how many phones will be selled tomorrow?
<ybon> (I'm being asked)
<mterry> adrian47, that's getting more foundations-y than I'm used to.  Isn't readonly mounted system.img normal?  It'll still have /home/phablet as rw I thought
<dobey> mterry: well if $HOME is ro, then it will be impossible to have any logs in ~/.cache (or pretty much anything running as that user)
<dobey> since pretty much everything about the user session requires being able to write to $HOME
<mterry> dobey, yeah sure.  But I thought we mounted $HOME as rw separate from how system.img is managed
<mterry> adrian47, in "mount" output, how is /home/phablet listed?
<dobey> mterry: yes, there are several mount points which are rw so that the system will work properly
<adrian47> mterry, where is "mount" output?
<mterry> adrian47, run "mount" in a terminal with no arguments
<adrian47> I am using rootstock installer which insterts everything in system.img (2GB), it's mounted at boot with touch script
<adrian47> i don't have usb connection at boot so i can do mount only from recovery, it will help?
<dobey> adrian47: no, the recovery is a different image; you need to check in a booted/running environment
<adrian47> i will try to modify touch script
<adrian47> how long 1st boot should take?
<adrian47> mterry, dobey, mounting it as rw didn't changed anything
<ogra_> adrian47, edit the line with "start on" in /etc/init/android-tools-adbd.conf
<ogra_> make it something like: start on (runlevel [2]) or android
<adrian47> i found .cache/upstart ! :)
<ogra_> and make sure to set a password for the phablet user (or a pin) using the passwd command ... then you shoudl be able to use adb
<adrian47> ogra_, thanks i see now error: user has no password set, can not start adbd
<ogra_> yeah, you somehow need to get a password set
<ogra_> do you have working network ? you could hack ssh to start by default
<adrian47> here are my .cache/upstart/ logs: paste.ubuntu.com/10161404
<ogra_> adrian47, thats all ?
<ogra_> no unity8 log or anythin ?
<adrian47> ogra_, yes thats all
<ogra_> well, it would be good if you could get some kind of shell access to the running system
<ogra_> so you couzld try out something like running "start unity8" and see what happens etc
<ogra_> sadly our adbd is a bit locked down for production, i need to provide a developer version of it for such cases
<adrian47> the passwd is stored in some file? maybe i can modify it
<ogra_> adrian47, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/adbd replace /usr/bin/adbd in your install with that one
<ogra_> that might work (no promises)
<adrian47> ogra_, thanks i wil try
<wxl> just got a nexus 4 with touch on it. if i want to change channels, must i use desktop to do this, or can this be done on the device itself?
<ogra_> wxl, system-image-cli --help
<ogra_> see the --switch switch :)
<wxl> ogra_: so tl;dr you can do it on the device's terminal
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  I have an insane question (like always)  How acceptable would be to install a complete sysroot to the /var/lib/schroot/chroots and make the click to use is?
<ogra_> yeah, if your fingers are small enough to not make you go insane typing :)
<ogra_> bzoltan_, what /var/lib/schroot/chroots ?
<ogra_> on the phone ?
<wxl> ogra_: hahah okie dokie. one other thing. for testing images, since the iso tracker doesn't link download images, how do you ensure that everyone's testing the same image?
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  not on the desktop
<ogra_> wxl, the QA team coordinates in #ubuntu-ci-eng usually ...
<adrian47> ogra_,  it's still offline on adb devices
<ogra_> jibel, ^^^ some community testing wanted ?
<nagus-zek> hi
<wxl> ogra_: okie dokie, thx!
<ogra_> adrian47, bah
<ogra_> bzoltan_, why would i care :) install what you like :)
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  dude :)
<ogra_> bzoltan_, i always use qemu-deboostrap for armhf chroots on my desktop
<ogra_> and create full system chroots
<ogra_> bzoltan_, how do you do it today ? what would be the difference
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  that is fine .. but for the SDK it is a major pain to see the bootsrapping process and wait
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  Today it is a pretty smple chroot creation... regular as an espresso
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  what would be better is  to wget a binary blob what is API equivalent with the #NUM image
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  or apt-get ubuntu-sdk-15.04-rev255-armhf
<nagus-zek> i have installed ubuntu touch on nexus4 ... it works good ... but my  proximity sensor is broken ... is ist possible ... so the display goes black when i call or i get a call ... is it possible to disable this function?
<ogra_> bzoltan_, wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/vivid-core-armhf.tar.gz ; untar ... ; cp /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static untarred_dir/usr/bin/; chroot untarred_dir ... ; apt-get install $my_build_deps
<ogra_> bzoltan_, that saves you from debootstrap
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  and if I want an i386 chroot... I guess it is the same
<ogra_> ChickenCutlass, ^^^ do we have any way to override the prox. sensor for nagus-zek ?
<adrian47> ogra_, sdin: is not tty   -su: /usr/bin/adbd: Permission denied
<ogra_> bzoltan_, right ... just s/armhf/i386/ in the download
<ogra_> adrian47, oh, make it exacutable :) i guess you pushed it via adb in recovery ?
<ogra_> that removed the exec bit from files ;)
<bzoltan_> ogra_: okey, after that all I need is to feed it to schroot
<ChickenCutlass> ogra_ not sure, whould have to remeber if we can mock those results.
<adrian47> ogra_, hah :)
<ogra_> bzoltan_, yeah ... btw, i noticed the fat package discussion ... you should make sure that your reqs are covered in snap packages ... they will eventually replace click
<nagus-zek> bzoltan: during the call the display goes black until  finish the call ...
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  that is new, but thank you for the heads up
<ogra_> bzoltan_, yeah, both teams kind of work in their own corners, only phonedations is working across the boundaries atm ... the phone will at some point move to a snappy base
<ogra_> which means snap packages too
<bzoltan_> ogra_: sounds cool
<ogra_> yeah, then you can just snappy install apache :)
<adrian47> ogra_, chmod 777 will be ok?
<ogra_> on your phone ;)
<ogra_> adrian47, yeah
<adrian47> ogra_, it works! :)
<ogra_> yay
<ogra_> i sadly need to leave you alone with that ... my GF kills me if i dont appear at the dinner table :)
<ogra_> but just try some bits and pieces like running start unity8 (as phablet user) (and watch the log in ~/.cache/upstart etc)
<ogra_> probably you find something obvious by poking around
<adrian47> ogra_, it's ok, bon appetit :)
<ogra_> heh, thanks :)
<adrian47> many thanks for help
<ogra_> welcome :)
<adrian47> start unity8 :: start: Unknown job: unity8
<zer01> Hi, did somebody know supported languages for ubuntu phone?
<dobey> zer01: c++/qml+js/go are really the "supported" ones
<zer01> sorry, I mean interface, like UK, Czech, Italian
<dobey> zer01: there are 112 languages installed by default in /usr/share/locale on the image for the nexus 4, i think the same are available on the bq phone as well
<zer01> Exelent, I thought this as well.
<zer01> Thx
<dobey> does anyone know how i can run qmlscene directly and have it work, under Mir? is there some way i can run aa-exec to get it working?
<dobey> tedg: ^^ any ideas how i could do that?
<svij> anyone knows who long the bq phone is supported with updates? Is there any fixed time?
<dobey> svij: i suspect for as long as bq chooses to continue supporting the device.
<dobey> svij: or as long as someone continues to build images for it, after that point, at least.
<svij> dobey: isn't canonical doing that?
<dobey> svij: canonical/ubuntu just provides images. when bq stops supporting the hardware it probably won't make much sense to necessarily continue building images for it, though it's possible it may happen for some time after that. but just like previous devices that we've stopped building images for (galaxy nexus, nexus 7 2012), there will be a point where it probably doesn't make any sense to continue providing updates for the aq
<john-mcaleely> dobey, there are 100 languages on an image 12 aren't used in the UI for various reasons
<dobey> john-mcaleely: sure. and some of them are the same language in different regions
<svij> dobey: i see, thanks :). I just hope bq isn't dropping the support fastly
<dobey> svij: bq is manufacturer first level of support. if you want answers about support life of the device, bq is who will have to answer that :)
<svij> dobey: right, thx :)
<SidPayton> QUESTION: Will the new scopes (Today, NearBy, etc) be available to the Nexus 4 users? If so when?
<SidPayton> QUESTION: What happend to the VLC app and 8tracks scope which where announced a year back? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/vlc-lastpass-coming-ubuntu-touch
<bzoltan_> ogra_: I love you man! Next time I see you I will give you a big hug :) I just made a click chroot out of a static rootfs.
<dobey> SidPayton: you'll have to ask the developers of vlc and 8tracks where they are. those announcements are from them, not ubuntu/canonical, afaict
<dobey> i don't know about if/when those scopes will be on other images
<SidPayton> thanks dobey. do you know who might know?
<dobey> i'm not sure. olli, pmcgowan: ^^ do you know anything about getting the new aggregator scopes on other device images?
<pmcgowan> dobey, I am checking, first answer I got was they are not available, which I didnt like :)
<dobey> right, they aren't currently
<pmcgowan> or not planned to be available
<SidPayton> yeah, but they should be. I want to show off my Nexus 4 with Ubuntu on it to friends and the scope experiance with the new aggregator scopes makes most of it
<dobey> yeah i don't know if there are some business/contract thing about that. above my pay grade :P
<pmcgowan> I agree, will try to find out
<zbenjamin> ogra_: do you know if there is some documentation for the snappy package format?
<OerHeks> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/packaging-format-apps/
<mterry> pete-woods, robert_ancell and I are seeing "No data sources available" in the infographics screen on our nexus 4 devices
<mterry> pete-woods, where does libusermetrics log things, if we wanted to see what the fault is?
<mterry> pete-woods, slash, have you seen this before?
<pete-woods> mterry: I've heard about the data going missing before
<pete-woods> it was always due to some sort of partitioning error
<pete-woods> i.e. the /var/lib/usermetrics mount had got messed up by an image upgrade
<pete-woods> I can't remember where the log file goes
<mterry> pete-woods, huh... let me see what mount says
<zapa_> good day!
<pete-woods> it's a system dbus service, started by dbus
<zapa_> anyone know if there are any examples for native C++ support on Ubuntu Touch?
<adrian47> mterry, i have now upstart logs when tried to "start unity8" from adb paste.ubuntu.com/10162969/
<zapa_> looking to port MOAI and some of my games made with it
<mterry> pete-woods, /dev/mmcblk0p23 on /var/lib/usermetrics type ext4 (rw,relatime,discard,nodelalloc,data=journal)
<pete-woods> so the log goes, er, wherever you'd expect that log? (is it dmesg?
<pete-woods> mterry: I think it was the folder ownership
<pete-woods> it should be owned and writable by the usermetrics user/group
<pete-woods> there was an image upgrade that hosed the ownership of the /var/lib mounts at some point
<mterry> adrian47, what log file is that?
<robert_ancell> $ ls /var/lib/usermetrics/ -ld
<robert_ancell> drwxr-x--- 2 messagebus systemd-journal 4096 Jul 10  2014 /var/lib/usermetrics/
<pete-woods> that looks like the issue
<pete-woods> a bit of chowning should fix it up
<mterry> pete-woods, drwxr-x--- 2 messagebus systemd-journal 4096 Aug 21 12:38 /var/lib/usermetrics/
<adrian47> mterry, all 3 logs have the same text, they are from .cache/upstart
<mterry> adrian47, what are the filenames?
<robert_ancell> pete-woods, do you know the correct ownership/flags?
<pete-woods> usermetrics:usermetrics is the owner
<mterry> pete-woods, robert_ancell: testing after a "sudo chown usermetrics:usermetrics /var/lib/usermetrics/"
<pete-woods> 660 will probably do for hte owner
<pete-woods> sorry, permissions
<adrian47> mterry, upstart-dbus-session-bridge.log ; upstart-dbus-system-bridge.log ; upstart-file-bridge.log
<mterry> adrian47, huh
<pete-woods> the folder and the database file both need fixing
<pete-woods> anyway, I'm only signed on still by accident, (8pm here)
<mterry> adrian47, looks like dbus is having problems, but those error messages aren't super helpful
<mterry> pete-woods, oh ok, thanks for the help!
<pete-woods> so let me know if the chowning fixes it :)
<robert_ancell> rebooting now
<pete-woods> I'm pretty confident it will, it worked for other people
<adrian47> mterry, i see that spinning logo is not spinning smothly until adb shell started :)
<robert_ancell> pete-woods, mterry, worked great, thanks!
<pete-woods> ;d
<pete-woods> :D
<robert_ancell> unfortunately I guess the metrics are empty since they couldn't be written to
<pete-woods> yeah
<pete-woods> but take a quick picture and you should see an update
<robert_ancell> In a month it will look good :)
<pete-woods> :)
<robert_ancell> "1 photos taken today". Nice grammar :)
<pete-woods> not my string
<mterry> pete-woods, it's not?
<pete-woods> it's provided by the apps
<mterry> pete-woods, it's not u8's, right?  Is that the camera's fault?
<pete-woods> yeah
<pete-woods> but
<pete-woods> at the risk of having the coversation again
<mterry> :)
<pete-woods> the numbers are all floats
<zbenjamin> OerHeks: thx
<pete-woods> and gettext doesn't support floats
<pete-woods> the idea was for e.g. "walked 1.2 miles today"
<pete-woods> and floats + plural forms just isn't support by anything
<pete-woods> but we were supposed to switch to the slightly less personal
<pete-woods> Pictures taken today: 1
<pete-woods> to avoid the pluralisation issue
<pete-woods> but yes, those strings are in, e.g. camera-app, telephony-service, music-app, etc
<pete-woods> anyway, EOD for me
<pete-woods> glad the fix worked for you guys :)
<robert_ancell> When I show the phone to random people I'll stop getting what's "No data sources mean" questions now
<TopGear> Hello guys. I am wondering whether one can use the BQ phone as a mobile hotspot. Do you know?
<zapa_> didn't see any hotspot options in ubuntu touch on my nexus 4
<zapa_> lemme check to be sure
<zapa_> nope, can't find anything TopGear
<rickspencer3> TopGear, that feature is on the list, but it has been implemented yet
<rickspencer3> soon
<pmcgowan> TopGear, zapa_ its in the works, but pretty sure you can set it up manually
<rickspencer3> he
<SturmFlut> pmcgowan, TopGear: At least on the Nexus 4, hostapd worked
<zapa_> do i need to do anything on the nexus 4 to get it to show up in Ubuntu SDK device list?
<SturmFlut> zapa_: Enable developer mode
<zapa_> thank you SturmFlut
<tedg> dobey, You can use ubuntu-app-test
<SturmFlut> :)
<tedg> dobey, Do you know how to get that?
<tedg> Sorry, I missed your ping.
<TopGear> Thank you guys! rickspencer3, you say it hasn't been implemented yet - do you expect it to arrive via the updates?
<rickspencer3> TopGear, when the feature is complete and fully tested it will indeed be pushed out in an update
<rickspencer3> since it's all "just linux" under the covers, as pmcgowan ways, there may be a way to enable it now, but it wouldn't be the full feature
<TopGear> rickspencer3, Good, that's good news. Is there a list somewhere with pending features?
<rickspencer3> TopGear, hmmmm
<pmcgowan> hmm
<pmcgowan> heh
<rickspencer3> TopGear, I know that we discuss them in great detail at each UOS, but not sure how they are captured
<dobey> tedg: is it packaged in the archive?
<pmcgowan> we could do better to publish a planned list even if without dates
<tedg> dobey, No, https://launchpad.net/~ted/+junk/ubuntu-app-test
<tedg> dobey, Probably should though
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, definitely *without* dates :)
<TopGear> rickspencer3, All right then, no problems. I will see if I pre-order it tomorrow.
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, TopGear I was hoping that we could put out some kind of feature list and let early adopters vote them up and down to help us prioritize, but ...
<rickspencer3> I know WIFI Hotspot is already high on the list
<pmcgowan> it is
<dobey> tedg: though i'm not sure if having it in the archive will help for the case where the tests get run on real phones
<TopGear> That'd be nice indeed. A bit like askubuntu where the best solutions are upvoted.
<rickspencer3> TopGear, yeah, it was just a pipe dream I had
<tedg> dobey, Well, it'd be easier to install along with the autopilot stuff.
<dobey> tedg: indeed
<TopGear> (I'm off fixing some posts on a forum.)
<tedg> Is brainstorm still running somewhere?
<dobey> tedg: does that fail when Mir isn't in use (ie, when running under x)?
<dobey> lol brainstorm
<tedg> dobey, Yes, it requires Mir.
<tedg> Basically it sets up a trusted session on a an app that it starts, and then starts your qmlscene over top of it.
<dobey> tedg: i think we need something that works equally under both mire and X (at least until we get a virtual framebuffer driver for Mir)
<kenvandine> yum, trusted session
<tedg> kenvandine, They're good for you! Eat two daily!
<kenvandine> i'm eating one now :)
 * tedg hands kenvandine some floss
<kenvandine> tedg, speaking of which... is there anyway to test it on the desktop?
<SturmFlut> If you are going to buy a Bq Aquaris E4.5 tomorrow, and add a second item to your shopping cart, you get a 15% discount. That means that if you buy a phone and the cheapest pastic cover, the total prices for both items drops to about 152 â¬
<tedg> kenvandine, As long as you're running Mir on the desktopâ¦ ;-)
<kenvandine> SturmFlut, cool!
<zapa_> SturmFlut: thanks for the info!
<kenvandine> tedg, you're lucky you're not close by
<kenvandine> i have a sharp instrument with your name on it
 * tedg can feel the love
<SturmFlut> lol
<kenvandine> i'm trying to untangle my busted armhf chroot
<kenvandine> so i can build this for the device
<kenvandine> painful...
<tedg> Yeah, was looking at that boards project from Linaro.
<tedg> Curious if I can't get a little builder for my desk.
<kenvandine> i think my drive is actually failing throwing errors
<kenvandine> which is causing my chroot to choke
<tedg> This: https://www.96boards.org/
<kenvandine> unfortunately i don't have the free space on my ssd to create a chroot :/
<dobey> tedg: is there a sane way to detect if mir is required?
<tedg> dobey, Running or required?
<tedg> If you have a MIR_SOCKET environment variable you probably have Mir running.
<dobey> tedg: running i guess
<SturmFlut> tedg: Yeah, I was interested in the HiKey board too at first, but then I realized that they want 129$ for a board that comes with only 1 GB of RAM, 4 GB of Flash, only Cortex-A53 cores, without SATA and without Ethernet.
<matv1> evenin everyone
<matv1> i have been dealing with a lot of unresponsive shells lately. at this moment again. A lot means roughly once a week, maybe 2 weeks. This I guess would be unity8 but i am not sure if this ought to be filed under an existing bug or not.
<tedg> SturmFlut, Yeah, was thinking I'd use the USB portsâ¦ not ideal, but 8 64-bit ARM cores might be worth it.
<matv1> well not entirely unresponive: just the right and left swipes. So i am always locked into the app that has focus. (i can apply screen lock and unlock again but that doesnt change the frozen shell ).
<matv1> can anyone relate that to a known active bug?
<SturmFlut> tedg: And most stuff on that board is "non-standard" too. 12V power supply instead of the usual 5 V USB plug, 1.8V serial ports (seriously?), 2 millimeter pin spacing instead of 2.54 etc.
<varikonniemi> can the bq phone output video via microusb?
<SturmFlut> tedg: I doubt you would have much fun with eight cores and only 1 GB of RAM
<tedg> Eh, yeah. Perhaps the 96 boards project will result in more boards.
<varikonniemi> iow can ubuntu touch do it, since the android version can
<tedg> Technically the schematics are thereâ¦
<kenvandine> i love having an SSD for my root and / file systems, but 120G just isn't very much
<kenvandine> so having to add space with an old school drive sucks
<tedg> varikonniemi, No, not yet.
<dobey> varikonniemi: ubuntu doesn't have otg video support yet, no
<SturmFlut> varikonniemi: The Bq Aquaris E4.5 has no MHL output, so no.
<kenvandine> i guess time to replace that old spinning drive
<kenvandine> then create new chroots
<varikonniemi> not yet or not ever? geekaphone says aquaris4.5 has video out via muusb
<kenvandine> i should buy a hybrid drive, but i need to get back up and running
<varikonniemi> so if usb gives video out and bluetooth gives kb&mouse, i see no reason why this phone should not be able to run the desktop
<dobey> it is running whatever you are calling "the desktop"
<dobey> it's just a very small screen in portrait orientation
<dobey> well, not 'very' small i guess. it's still pretty big
<varikonniemi> no, the desktop ui is not yet released
<dobey> unity8 is unity8
<SturmFlut> varikonniemi: where does geekaphone state that, I can't find it. Every source I know, including the Bq website, states that it doesn't support MHL.
<varikonniemi> http://geekaphone.com/compare/BQ-Aquaris-4.5-vs-Kazam-Trooper-X4.5
<varikonniemi> for isntance there
<varikonniemi> Video out 	
<varikonniemi> Micro USB
<dobey> that is not the e4.5
<matv1> anyone at all :) ?
<dobey> matv1: i don't know :)
<varikonniemi> i did not know e4.5 is different from 4.5, every source has only talked about 4.5
<matv1> dobey doesnt sound familiar either? (on mako rtm proposed)
<kenvandine> everything i've seen has said e4.5
<kenvandine> varikonniemi, http://www.bq.com/es/ubuntu.html
<dobey> matv1: i haven't had that on my nexus5 no
<kenvandine> not sure why they have a 4.5 and an e4.5
<dobey> kenvandine: well, it also has different camera resolution and storage amounts
<kenvandine> just overloaded name
<kenvandine> can be confusing
<matv1> ok. kgunn would be the one to know i guess
<dobey> or whoever put the info on geekaphone doesn't know what they're talking about
 * matv1 just wonders if he should file a bug or not
<SturmFlut> Has anybody already found out how to flash Ubuntu Touch on an Android E4.5? Bq confirmed that they will provide the necessary images, but didn't say when
<matv1> Sturmflut if they will then these 'limited flash sales' are kinda meaningless. anyone could buy an android version and of the e4.5 and flash it :)
<SturmFlut> matv1: I think they are just doing the flash sales because they can't deliver enough pre-flashed phones at the beginning. And marketing.
<matv1> sturmflut yes that could be it
<dobey> sturmflut: you won't be able to flash an android e4.5 until they provide the tools to do so
<sturmflut> dobey: They already provide the tools, right under "Drivers and Tools" on the product page
<sturmflut> dobey: It's a standard tool for MTK processors, written in Qt, for Windows, but according to the start screen there is a version for Ubuntu x86 too
<dobey> maybe my spanish is really that bad, but i don't see anything about how to repartition the android phone and flash it with ubuntu on that page
<sturmflut> dobey: Just a moment, I am taking a screenshot
<sturmflut> dobey: I had to download the whole stuff and run it in Wine to find out how everything comes together
<dobey> the duo case is kind of weird though :)
<sturmflut> dobey: You download both the "Firmware hard reset" and "Drivers&Tools" archives. The first one contains one dump file per partition and a layout file called "MT6582_Android_scatter.txt" . The second archive contains the MTK flash tool. You load the MT6582_Android_scatter.txt file into the tool, and now the tool knows how many partitions to create, the size and location of each partition and which dump corresponds to which
<sturmflut> partition.
<sturmflut> dobey: Then the tool flashes everything directly into the eMMC.
<dobey> sturmflut: ok. but i don't see where those are on the page
<sturmflut> dobey: at the bottom
<dobey> oh on the android phone page
<sturmflut> dobey: Oh, yeah, I didn't think that you might look at the Ubuntu page
<dobey> sturmflut: the phone has to be repartitioned
<dobey> sturmflut: until bq provides the image that lays out those partitions correctly, you can't flash ubuntu onto an android version of the phone
<sturmflut> dobey: I could someone who already owns the Ubuntu version into telling me his partition layout ;)
<dobey> sturmflut: i don't think it works that way :)
<dobey> anyway
<dobey> back to trying to figure out wtf is wrong with autopilot
<kenvandine> damn... failing hard drive isn't my only problem... can't build content-hub in a chroot, cmake causes it to hang
<kenvandine> i thought this had been fixed
 * sturmflut goes back to removing ownCloud from all servers
<masakoo> Hello everyone
<masakoo> How are you today?
<sturmflut> terve, masakoo o/
<masakoo> Terve
<masakoo> En oo hyvÃ¤ koodari mutta kÃ¤Ã¤ntÃ¤minen onnistuis ehkÃ¤ ajan kanssa jos tartette apua. My question is about ubuntu on samsung android phone. Do you have experiences. Is it good and working?
<Prezident> which model do you have?
<masakoo> Galaxy trend plus
<Prezident> Never tried that one.
<masakoo> Do you like ubuntu phone?
<sturmflut> masakoo: According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices there is no port yet for that model.
<masakoo> Ok. Thanks
<matv1> sturmflut not trying to be nosy but any particular reason why you all ditching all your ownCloud servers? Are there any security issues I should be aware of? :)
<k1l_> someone told me today that the hoster stopped his server because owncloud went mad on an eclipsebackup. (too much tiny files?!?!)
<Pensee> the BQ ubuntu edition is a different hardware than Android edition, the difference is no front buttons, so not so good for a swich between OS !
<nhaines> Pensee: stock Android doesn't use hardware buttons either.
<aSheepie> Hi, stupid Q regarding the SDK - I've used bzr to grab the source for the core twitter app and I want to open it with the SDK, but I can't because there isn't a project file.  Do I need to create a new (webapp?) project and import the source, or is there something I'm missing? thx
<Pensee> Still can't make my mind about BQ phone, does anyone have a link to the store to see what software is available
<kgunn> matv1: sorry for laggy reply..."unresponsive" shell...but with edges working, sounds actually like this one
<kgunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1410191
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1410191 in unity-scopes-shell (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/unity8-dash:11:data:qGetPtrHelper:d_func:get:QQmlBoundSignalExpression::function" [High,In progress]
<kgunn> which basically is the unity8-dash crashing
<matv1> kgunn hi np! I shouldnt even bee allowed to ask after 10 at night :)
 * matv1 reading up on that bug
<kgunn> matv1: i actually logged one last night that ended up being a dup of it....basically, if i went to the store, selected an app preview, hit "install" it would crash
<matv1> kgunn I can say that selecting an app to install triggers it. I Have nbot experienced that
<matv1> kgunn also I am not quite sure what you mean by step 2 in the bug.
<matv1> Do you mean that a call to a registered online account is made?
<ogra_> Pensee, https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps (not the official store but it pulls info from there)
<matv1> kgunn that bug description is kinda sparse and I am not allowed to see the detailed error page.  (assuming I would understand it at all)
<kgunn> matv1: yes, hitting install before any account is setup brings up settings app for the user to enter credentials
<kgunn> yeah...gah, they automatically have those error pages private, in case somone logs sensitive info
<kgunn> matv1: if you think you're seeing something different, take a video, that would be awesome...
<kgunn> then also you can check your crash files (just check timestamp to make sure it's relevant in time to what you experience
<kgunn> then you can apport-cli <crash file>...and upload it...it will process it and give you a link to follow onto launchpad to complete the process
<matv1> kgunn okay I will try and do that. Thanks!
<kgunn> matv1: hey thanks for the help in finding bugs
<kgunn> let me know if you need a pointer on anything
<zapa_> SDL is not supported on Ubuntu Touch right?
<matv1> kgunn ok Ithink ill be alright in extracting crashfiles a doing the apport. I am just not altogether sure we are on the same page over the nature over this bug.
<kgunn> matv1: understood
<matv1> but i will let you guys decide :)
<kgunn> sure :)
<kgunn> zapa_: hmmm, maybe ? i mean bschaefer is working on it...but not sure if it needs "other stuff" that might not be default installed in the touch image
<zapa_> understood
<koding123> so what is the point of using Ubuntu Make instead of a package specific PPA?
<RobbyF> Hey guys, where would i look for the latest galaxy nexus image? (i know it's no longer supported)
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-11
<dobey> RobbyF: it hasn't been supported for about a year, so if flashing with ubuntu-device-flash on the stable channel doesn't work, then it's likely long since been deleted from the server
<dobey> oh, looks like there is an image in the 'trusty' channel though
<RobbyF> mind if you can link it?
<dobey> ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/trusty --device maguro
<dobey> but it's totally unsupported and probably won't work
 * bschaefer reads
<bschaefer> kgunn, what am i working on :)?
<RobbyF> terget device cannot be reached over adb
<bschaefer> oo sdl, zapa_ yeah SDL2 works on touch (as well as 1.2 with software rendering only)
<zapa_> agh neat. Thought it didn't so I stripped the SDL host from the build
<zapa_> gonna add it back and see tomorrow
<RobbyF> builds are based on android 4.2.2 still right
<Pensee> ogra_ thanks for the link (pseudo store)
<RobbyF> thanks dobey, appears to be going at this point
<koding123> so what is the point/pros/benefit of using Ubuntu Make( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-make ) instead of a package specific PPA? http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid/ubuntu-make
<lazyPower> koding123: i think the idea behind ubuntu make is to track bleeding edge upstream tools vs relying on a package archive. removing the packaging barrier for contributions.
<koding123> so is it a official tool? considering its in https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-make ? (by official I meant meant reliable compared to 3rd party PPAs)\
<koding123> lazyPower, ^
<lazyPower> we've got canonical staffers working on curating the project but there's quite a bit of community contribution as well
<lazyPower> so in short, yeah its an officially supported method to get moving
<koding123> lazyPower, thanks, so packages downloaded through ubuntu-make don't add a repository entry in sources? as it seems like the apps use their own update system and not the system update.
<koding123> lazyPower, actually the point behind that question is is the ubuntu-make method preferred over a PPA officially?
<lazyPower> ah, that i cannot answer. i think thats personal preference at any rate
<lazyPower> if you want to track bleeding edge vs wait for a package for sanitary install/removal
<koding123> lazyPower, ok thanks.
<koding123> lazyPower, you cleared a lot of doubts, thanks, good to know its officially supported/being developed by ubuntu/canonical developers as well.
<lazyPower> hmm
<lazyPower> i appear to be missing all kinds of fun things like the today scope, et-al on my flashed ubuntu-phone image
<koding123> still waiting for Ubuntu Phone...
<koding123> considering Sailfish OS, Tizen and Firefox OS phone are already released, can't wait to get a Ubuntu Phone :)
<lazyPower> i fetched a nexus 4 to flash and track devel
<koding123> :( Nexus 4 is not sold anymore I think
<koding123> Ubuntu Edge could have the great :(
<koding123> *been
<lazyPower> you can still get used nexus 4's dirt cheap
<lazyPower> i picked mine up for $120 - bought paid for and shipped. If you're outside of the US i'm not sure how difficult it would be to get one but i dont imagine that difficult
<uhhimhere> im from nigeria and once my uncle who was an ancestral king passes down his inheritance to me i will be able to buy google's nexus 4
<uhhimhere> but in order to do so i will need someone in europe/america to help me with funds transfer as he doesnt trust the local banking system
<uhhimhere> XD
<lazyPower> uhhimhere: have a cookie
<koding123> ...
<koding123> weird
<uhhimhere> so anybody know what dalvik turbo is and how you use it?
<bojan> Is there any phone with ubuntu in india??
<zet> just flashed my 9300, the wifi doesn't work
<svij> someone asked yesterday about my interview with cristian parrino, he talked about future plans like a third manufacturer and the launch for the us market â https://plus.google.com/+SujeevanVijayakumaran/posts/a6DVeymacpq
<robertopero> Hi all! I would like to buy the bq phone today. I store my contact in my google account, so I can sync it to the Ubuntu phone without problem, but what's about with the SMS? Can I copy it somehow to the device. I use Android 4.4 now.
<Scooty-loo> doesn't sound like it
<Scooty-loo> but I don't actually know
<Scooty-loo> I think you can put messages onto sim on android, but I don't know whether ubuntu touch can read that
<robertopero> Hmm... It's intresting. Thanks. If anbody has an idea just tell it :)
<Scooty-loo> to put message onto sim on android press and hold that thread and see if there
 * popey looks at the time
<Scooty-loo> there's the option to copy to sim
<Scooty-loo> now is the time
<Scooty-loo> PURCHASE BUTTON IS THERE!
<popey> :)
<antoniut> yep :)
 * popey is at the "process order" stage
 * Mirv found Purchase but doesn't find how to continue from http://ubuntu.bq.com/
<Mirv> not that they'd ship to Finland apparently anyway :(
<Mirv> so when from the play part I click "Skip", I get to that page
<Scooty-loo> "You will receive your new device and the cover inÂ March."
<robertopero> The page doesn't work already :)
<popey> it is grinding slowly
<robertopero> Scooty-loo: Yeah, I read the too, but why March?
<Scooty-loo> delivered in March
<Mirv> but should there be something to click from that URL to actually buy it?
<Scooty-loo> sounds like I can just wait then, why the rush
<popey> the shipping method seems broken
<Mirv> for me it looks like there'd be a bit too much white space. can someone paste a screenshot of http://ubuntu.bq.com/ where there is some sort of button like "Continue", "Buy", "Add to basket" or anything?
<Pensee> damn try to buy now, delivery in March -> no way
<Scooty-loo> yea, what a bummer
<robertopero> Mirv: Sometimes I see a Purchase button...
<Pensee> going abraod 24/2 for 2 months
<Mirv> robertopero: I saw purchase on the previous page
<robertopero> Mirv: I saw it in the second page too
<Scooty-loo> http://ubuntu.bq.com/
<robertopero> but after I clicked on it it disappered
<popey> yeah, i had it in my basket then it broke
<Scooty-loo> looks like they use a second server for the flood
<Mirv> this is what I have http://imgur.com/cFb0LIU
<Mirv> all the info, nothing to click
<popey> same
<Scooty-loo> yup
<Scooty-loo> same here
<Mirv> ok
<Scooty-loo> but not planning to buy anymore as the delivery is 3 weeks ahead
<robertopero> same here now
<sturmflut-work> WTF? I have to wait three weeks until my E4.5 is delivered?
<robertopero> but the first time I saw the button, but then ...
<popey> ooh, now it works
<popey> then 502 on the checkout...
<Mirv> ha, Add to Cart now!
<Scooty-loo> it saids "You will receive your new device and the cover inÂ March."
<Neo31> yo guys
<Mirv> 502, yes
<Neo31> i need the bq
<popey> ok, once you get 502
<Neo31> i see first purchase button but when i get inside the page and i try to buy it i don't see the button anymore
<popey> you can refresh
<popey> and eventually it moves on
<popey> but the "shipping method" is broken, so you can't actually place the order
 * Mirv on checkout page
<robertopero> http://i.imgur.com/W9FxOnc.png?1
<robertopero> but the error 502
<robertopero> then
<sturmflut-work> I'm out, this is stupid.
<hich-em> Neo31, where is my phone
<hich-em> OMG
<Neo31> robertopero, how did u get that ?
 * Mirv finds his country not on the list -> sad
<robertopero> Neo31: Need to refresh the page and sometimes you have the button
<sturmflut-work> You can order a Nexus 4 off of eBay, or a Bq Aquaris E4.5 with Android and wait for the Ubuntu images, in both cases you will get a working Ubuntu phone before Bq delivers the E4.5 Ubuntu Edition
<robertopero> Neo31: but then error 502
<Neo31> shit
 * Neo31 is sad
<hich-em> hahah
<hich-em> OMG
<popey> the flash sale runs till 17:00 UTC...
<Neo31> hich-em, we should talk here so i can keep track
<hich-em> hahah
<Neo31> that's confirmed popey ?
<popey> yes, 08:00 to 17:00 today
<popey> (UTC)
<Scooty-loo> the march deliver time kills the kittens
<Neo31> hich-em, if popey is correct your boss should be able to get u one (if the site is gonna work of course)
<hich-em> http://ubuntu.bq.com/fr/checkout/cart/add/uenc/aHR0cDovL3VidW50dS5icS5jb20vZnIvc21hcnRwaG9uZXMvdWJ1bnR1/product/1075/form_key/XFO30YUyJZ4WuSl7/
<Scooty-loo> was going to ask a friend in gb to receive the package for me
<Scooty-loo> now plan canceled *shrug*
<robertopero> sturmflut-work: Yes, but who is know when the firmware uploaded? And I want a cover too, and now it is for free :D
<hich-em> 502 Bad Gateway
<skerit> 502 errors. Well, I guess lots of people are trying to buy one, then. That's a good thing, right?
<hich-em> Neo31, chnya el 7al
<Neo31> should we start inspecting html and shit ?
<Neo31> lol
<Scooty-loo> personally don't like flip covers
<popey> skerit: that's my perspective too
<Neo31> or just hack the website lol
 * Mirv makes it official https://twitter.com/timojyrinki/status/565424353521983488
<skerit> I just hope some people are able to actually finish the transaction, popey :)
<Neo31> Mirv, what r u making official? site is still broken
<Neo31> from what i see no one got to finish the order process yet!
<Mirv> Neo31: I'm making official that it's sad they don't/wouldn't ship to Finland
<Mirv> even if the site would work
<Neo31> ah ok
<Neo31> do they ship to france Mirv ?
<Neo31> hich-em, no idea
<Neo31> we keep trying that's it and hangout here to see if someone gets lucky
<Mirv> Neo31: yes
<Mirv> I've the Process order page open where it lists the countries
<Scooty-loo> at least you did not bad gateway
<Pensee> for france it's on shipping list, but not from order page
<Scooty-loo> find a friend from the aviliable country to receive for you I guess
<Scooty-loo> countries*
<Neo31> didn't get there yet Mirv
<Neo31> how did u do to get ther ?
<Neo31> i even tried playing the whole game and scoring on all the steps
<Neo31> didn't work either
<Mirv> Neo31: refreshing enough, of course skipping the game and then waiting that the Add to cart shows on the next page
<Mirv> https://twitter.com/timojyrinki/status/565425808664457216 <- countries they ship to, feel free to retweet
<Neo31> thx Mirv
<Neo31> i'll keep refreshing
<Neo31> or maybe it is fr website that's broken, what language r u using Mirv ?
<skerit> Ugh, they even have an ajax script to check valid e-mail addresses. What a bad idea.
<hich-em> it works
<hich-em> http://ubuntu.bq.com/fr/checkout/cart/
<hich-em> yes
<Neo31> hich-em, i don't have add to cart button yet
<hich-em> try
<hich-em> his
<hich-em> this
<Mirv> Neo31: I was using English, but I didn't have the Add to Cart (see http://i.imgur.com/W9FxOnc.png?1 ) for a long time. I've no idea why it then suddenly showed up. Clicking it I got 502 error, but I kept on refreshing that 502 error page too so finally it loaded
<hich-em> http://ubuntu.bq.com/fr/checkout/cart/
<popey> Patience is working out for me.
<Mirv> patience, patience
<popey> Load page, wait... wait some more.
<Neo31> hich-em, that's ur cart not mine
 * Neo31 isn't that patient, gotta get back to work
<Mirv> ahhh! support is answering, Finland is coming soon!
<Neo31> There has been an error processing your request
<Neo31> i got to add my name and email to what seems an error tracking system
<Mirv> unless the support guy misunderstood and he's just telling that it's possibly to order soon
<popey> "We are currently experiencing some technical issues. We apologize for the inconvenience and will contact you shortly to resolve the issue. To help us serve you please fill in the form below."
<antoniut> yep ... I also get the same message
<robertopero> me too
<Scooty-loo> site is friendly ddosed by a porpotion of people getting dissapointed by the deliver date
<Neo31> aparently everyone got to the support thing
<Neo31> same here
<Neo31> looool Scooty-loo i guess that's what happened
<popey> Scooty-loo: I wouldn't assume the deliver date is as important to others as it is to you.
<Scooty-loo> and another porpotion did get into the puchase page but then 502 gateway, some get error message email
<Scooty-loo> yea I know
<Scooty-loo> just pointing the current situation out
<Mirv> yay! https://twitter.com/timojyrinki/status/565428033939861504
<Pensee> Keep calm and carry on -> without me (gone b4 delivery)
<Scooty-loo> Mirv: yay!
<Scooty-loo> how many people sitting in their office now trying to buy ubuntu phone?
<popey> s/office/pyjamas/
<zapa_> office here also
<zapa_> but seeing as shippments arrive in march...
<robertopero> office too :)
<dekoding> hello @ll
<skerit> I got my order confirmation by mail. It's in German for some reason, but hey.
<dekoding> sorry i can not buy the ubuntu phone :(
<popey> Join the club.
<robertopero> skerit: Lucky on! :)
<robertopero> e
<dekoding> this buggy ? =)
<skerit> Yeah robertopero, I just opened the dev-tools and any time an ajax call resulted in a 502 I just tried again.. Seems to work :p
<skerit> The store is just a magento install. I got order number 300000069
<skerit> Though other stores (like /es, /fr) probably have different numbers.
<robertopero> skerit: On the process order page did you log in or fill the form? Because I trying to log in now with no success....
<skerit> I didn't have an account yet, so I just filled it in
<mokmeister> Anybody here having difficulty buying the new BQ Ubuntu phone?
<skerit> Every time you change the country it makes an ajax call to get the shipping options, but if there's a 502 error on the other side it won't appear to do anything
<mokmeister> I just get error msg when I click through on the purchase, boohoo
<skerit> Yeah mokmeister, the server is having difficulties. (That's putting it kindly)
<mokmeister> hmmm, thanks for info skerit
<skerit> But if you know your way around the browser dev-tools you can get through them, mokmeister
<ogra_> or you could watch https://twitter.com/bqreaders/with_replies and wait til they announce that it is fixed ;)
<uglyandstupid> good morning
<uglyandstupid> Anyone know if there's any existant project integrating pocketsphinx + qt  please ?
<skerit> There isn't really a bug, though, ogra_. "Fixing it" would be them beefing up the server :p
<Scooty-loo> now I wonder if you put a raspberry pi up for the ubuntu flood, or there're simply too much people trying to get ubuntu now
<Scooty-loo> I mean, the ubuntu e4.5
<robertopero> skerit: So, are you the only one from this channel who can bought it already? :)
<skerit> Am I? :)
<skerit> I also chose to pay by wire transfer, by the way.
<sturmflut-work> https://twitter.com/bqreaders/status/565434867153133568
<Neo31> skerit, did u have to configure ur pack options befor eyou hit add to cart ?
<Neo31> i got this : * Please specify product option(s). and i see no payment gateways clickable
<skerit> Noskcaj, I was just able to hit "add cart". "Configure your pack" doesn't seem to do anything
<skerit> Oh sorry Noskcaj, meant Neo31
<Neo31> :)
<Neo31> i go this on cart : * Please specify product option(s).
<skerit> Strange... But according to my order number, they're not selling them by the thousands atm. You'll have more luck later in the day.
 * Neo31 starting to giv eup
<robertopero> Yeah \o/ :D http://i.imgur.com/RN0VIFA.png
<skerit> Great robertopero. Currently the site says it's already out of stock...
<robertopero> skerit: Huh, I hope everything okay with my order :)
<Neo31> i just got this not sure what's wrong
<Neo31> * This product is currently out of stock.
<ybon> han, the time to move from home to work place, I've switched from 502 to "out of stock"
<mcphail> bah -- 6 attempts to buy with a crash each time and now out of stock. Disappointed
<uglyandstupid> Anyone know if there's any existant project integrating pocketsphinx + qt  please ?
<robertopero> I don't get a confirmation email yet, just from PayPal about the payment...
<Neo31> now i got this : Sign up to get notified when this configuration is back in stock
<sturmflut-work> Wasn't it sort of clear that the stock will never last until 5 pm
<robertopero> popey: I think the accurate value is a secret, but circa how many devices sold by the bq today?
<popey> i have no idea
<popey> going by how hard it was to buy one given the website issues.. maybe 4? :)
 * Neo31 wanna cry
<robertopero> don't know :) I bought one, got the confirmation e-mail just a moment ago :)
<skerit> Wellark_, robertopero shared his order number, which was ...165
<skerit> Dammit, just wanted to say "Well", not "Wellark_"
<robertopero> and yours is ...69, if i am right :)
<matv1> kgunn ping
<popey> Elleo: is it (in your humble opinion) a bug in OSK or App, if data isn't accepted into a field until you press space after a word? (i.e. type "Note title" and "Note" is taken as input)
<Neo31> popey, robertopero skerit any ideas if it is gonna open again and when exactly?
<popey> keep an eye on @ubuntu and @bqreaders on twitter
<robertopero> sorry, I only know the same as you
<Neo31> thanks anyway
<skerit> Don't feel too bad, we'll probably all have to wait until march before the phone arrives.
<matv1> and BQ are not even talking on chat atm. appearantly its not business hours in spain :O
<matv1> Thats the last time I am paying for their national debt :D
<Scooty-loo> hmm all units sold out now?
<ogra_> yeps
<Scooty-loo> cool sad ubuntu edge tho
<Scooty-loo> that kid didn't make it
<ogra_> just wait til 2016 :)
<Elleo> popey: if the app is doing something custom it has to call commit() on the input method
<ogra_> by then the desktop mode will be there and the standard HW will be able to cope
<Elleo> popey: we do that automatically for apps when changing focus
<popey> Elleo: its not a focus change, it's a button press... http://popey.mooo.com/screenshots/device-2015-02-11-093532.png (the save button to the right)
<Elleo> popey: I don't particularly like it, but that's how the QT IME stuff works for pre-edit things
<popey> if i press save with it like that, the title is saved as "Note" (or possibly "Note "), but not "Note title"
<Elleo> popey: a button press should trigger a focus change unless the app sets a property on the button not to
<popey> ok, will file a bug and attach this conversation.
<popey> thanks!
<Elleo> popey: what's the app?
<popey> Elleo: reminders
<Elleo> popey: okay, will take a quick look at it later to confirm
<popey> thanks
<matv1> anyone so this is unity crashing is it not? anybody seen this lately? (left to right or right to left both failing but otherwise device seems to keep functioning)
<matv1> http://37.251.54.131/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=03bd3acdffa9b2c9e630ee98c85a4b23
<matv1> i have had this a couple of times over the last weeks
<matv1> thing is: i have nothing relevant in /var/crash on unity
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/ So I started to create the settings ui, and I think I found an elegant (but simple) solution for the submenu, I would like your opinion :-)
<rpadovani> https://code.launchpad.net/~rpadovani/webbrowser-app/settingsPage/+merge/249294
<rpadovani> atm it's only the ui, there is no function linked yet
<rpadovani> also, I created a property showNotImplementedItems to show/hide not yet implemented functionality. For now only privacy setting is visible, but if you change it to true you can see all settings that are in design spec
<rpadovani> no hurry anyway, until Sat/Sun I don't think I'll be able to work on it again
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, thanks, Iâll take a quick look. Note that Iâm off tomorrow and Friday, so IÂ wonât be able to properly review it before Monday anyway
<rpadovani> oSoMoN, okay. Anyway, how you want to proceed? It's quite useless right now, do you want I try to link (or create) functions to privacy?
<popey> rpadovani: heya, will you have a chance to look at the docviewer merges today, before you get sharks with fricking lazer beams zapping your eyes?
<rpadovani> popey, yay, on them now :-)
<rpadovani> (this morning is for development)
<oSoMoN> rpadovani, at the moment I think only the options for which there is backend code ready should be visible (i.e. atm it will only be "clear browsing history"). It will look very empty, true, but we have to start somewhere :) Then you could move on to working on the search engines list model
<rpadovani> okay, cool!
<rpadovani> popey, do we have a desing spec for docviewer?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Get Out Your Guitar Day! :-D
<robertopero> "We have in fact sold-out of Ubuntu phones for today's flash sale. Due to high demand this morning, many of you faced server issues which we apologies for.  As a result of the inconvenience and understandable frustration, we have decided to allocate an additional batch and hold another flash sale today at 3pm (CET.) We don't anticipate any further server issues and the BQ shop will be open until stock lasts - please note ph
<robertopero> from Ubuntu official FB
<popey> rpadovani: no
<rpadovani> popey, okay. I already reviewed 1, the other one requires to test on the phone, I'm updating my chroot
<popey> thanks rpadovani !
<mandel> Elleo, any news about https://code.launchpad.net/~mandel/ubuntu-download-manager/test-space-left/+merge/249093
<Neo31> next flash will be 3pm CET
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to:  | Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Installing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting guide (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bugs filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Nexus Status: http://bit.ly/18kIrhM | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | Changelog: http://bit.ly/1ljube1 | Flash sale 20150211 14:00 UTC!
<joolz> yup, https://plus.google.com/+bqreaders/posts/BStjo9FWMfW
<joolz> hope they're ready this time, this morning was awful
<Scooty-loo> I'm actually curious about the number of devices prepared for initial sale, as if the coming second flash sale is just a marketing tactic..
<ogra_> wheee, conspiracy :)
<popey> seems more like an apology to me
<ogra_> it is to compensate for the outage
<popey> ya
<Stskeeps> no shame in such a marketing tactic.. it's good old classic apple and a lot of other companies
<Stskeeps> if there's demand, it's not a shame to sell, sell, sell
<Stskeeps> :P
<popey> I honestly think bq didn't expect this demand.
<popey> Given they wanted to run a flash sale from 08:00 UTC until 17:00 UTC
<ogra_> yep, the first run iis to dip your foot in the water anyway :)
<popey> maybe they thought we'll sell maybe a few per hour over the day, then close the shutters
<popey> and people will be wanting to buy one next time..
<k1l> or maybe devices that got caught in the server issue? hp/palm did this on their firesale since the online shop system did hold back some devices to not sell devices doubled
<popey> yeah, who knows.
<popey> fun to speculate though :)
<ogra_> :)
<k1l> but i should write a marketing book about the issues with firesales :)
<k1l> didnt see just one where not 90% of users were dissapointed
<Scooty-loo> still fun to see that server get down on it's knees, no matter that was an IBM or a raspberry pi
<popey> it was amazon aws, if the IP address is right :)
<Elleo> mandel: will test that now, had to leave last night before jenkins finished building the new version
<mandel> Elleo, no problem
<ogra_> popey, oh my, i see the headlines "Ubuntu Phone kills AWS"
<popey> Good.
<ogra_> subtitle: canonicals secret strategy to take amazon out of the cloud market
<john-mcaleely> well, except doesn't aws run ubuntu instances, in general? :-)
<ogra_> shhh
<ogra_> :)
<Elleo> heh
<jgdx> What exactly is a flash sale?
<ogra_> this is where you can buy camera equipment ...
<k1l> limited devices all sold for cheap price till they are all gone
<john-mcaleely> widely used by the new phone OEMs as they launch phones, it seems
<jgdx> camera equipment, got it
<uhhimhere> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-02/index.html
<uhhimhere> hey look hurds not dead
<Scooty-loo> ha, the canonicals shenanigans
<Elleo> mandel: managed to break it :P
<Elleo> mandel: added a comment to the review, but basically it looks like it isn't checking properly when handling zips
<Elleo> mandel: possibly the fact that the unzip fails (due to running out of disk space)
<sturmflut-work> Bq could really do themselves a favor and release the Ubuntu firmware images for the E4.5. ATM they probably have to manually reflash all their Android stock to Ubuntu, why not let the user do it?
<popey> thats not how it works
<popey> the phones are flashed in the factory, not by hand.
<sturmflut-work> popey: They make money in all cases, regardless if I buy the Android version and flash it or if I buy the Ubuntu Edition.
<popey> not exactly resource efficient or scalable to have someone sat flashing phones.
<Stskeeps> popey: once you're embarassed by your first time user experience, you'll get there :P
<svij> but there is actually difference in the screen between android and ubuntu editions, one has the android menu buttons, the other doesn't
<Stskeeps> we've reflashed a couple of times stock
<popey> heh Stskeeps
<Stskeeps> users don't automatically run to update their phones
<popey> my tv forces me to update :(
<popey> had to wait 30 mins before I could use it recently
<Elleo> popey: better start pushing for ubuntu TVs again ;)
<popey> heh
<ogra_> pitti, do you know if CONFIG_TIMER_STATS is a requirement in ubuntu for upower ?
<ogra_> cking, ^^^
<pitti> ogra_: not sure, what does that do?
<ogra_> upower -w ... wakeup stats
<ogra_> i wonder if we need it in a typical phone config
<pitti> for wakeup stats it reads /proc/timer_stats
<cking> it allows one to read /proc/timer_stats
<pitti> ah, so that config option is for that file
<cking> bit like what evenrstat does too
<ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ ls /proc/timer_*
<ogra_> /proc/timer_list
<ogra_> my question is rather if we want it on :)
 * popey goes for lunch.. Don't sell any phones while I'm gone! 
<cking> ogra_, it does not add much, and it is useful for debugging wakey processes using eventstat
<pitti> ogra_: that's just informational, so if we don't care about showing that anywhere (I doubt it's in a GUI), then I guess no
<ogra_> ok, thanks
<Scooty-loo> people so waiting for the image so that they can buy android verison and flash it
<Scooty-loo> but from the look of it it will be after they have sold enough ubuntu edition
<Scooty-loo> while I think many people would prefer a version that can go back and forth android/ubuntu-touch
<ogra_> you wont be easily able to go back and forth ...
<ogra_> at least not withough completely re-flashing the device
<ogra_> the partitioning schemes are different
<Scooty-loo> meh one can easily put android partitions on sd-card, it will be slow, but you will have a dev devices that runs both through more simple boot image re-flashing
<ubuntufin> hmm possible install lg g2 mini ubuntu touch os?
<Neo31> hich-em, what's up?
<sturmflut-work> popey: If I'm not completely mistaken the Bq phones given to the "Insider Event" attendees came with Ubuntu Touch r16, which was released on January 30, so how did Bq get those phones from the factory in China to London within six days?
 * sturmflut-work still wants to believe that there is a cave full of smartphone-flashing gnomes somewhere in spain
<popey> that was 30 phones
<popey> not thousands
<sturmflut-work> Gnomes I say!
<sturmflut-work> Gnomes!
<sturmflut-work> Singing the Bq song
<Elleo> you really don't want to get flashed by a gnome
<beuno> +1 to Gnomes
<popey> Down with that sort of thing!
<ertyhj> aa
<pcctw_> hi
<sturmflut-work> "Heigh-Ho, Heigh-ho, to flash the phones we go" *sings*
<lotuspsychje> channel count has never been so high in here
<pcctw_> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<popey> Tick. Tock.
 * mcphail needs to find a way to distract everyone in the channel from the "refresh" button on their browsers so he has a chance of completing the checkout in the next 5 minutes...
<pcctw_> i need new phone... and i'm not sure... aquarius or jolla...
<k1l> if you ask here: go for the ubunut phone :)
<lotuspsychje> k1l: :p
<mcphail> pcctw_: go jolla - I've heard the ubuntu phone is rubbish - Don't even bother going on the website in the next 10 minutes... ;)
<mcphail> one down
<k1l> and the case looks like a reversed iphone case :) the iphone and ipad cases have that hole to show the apple logo on the back
<pcctw_> mcphail, forget
<pcctw_> :P i'm refreshing every 2 sec :P
<sturmflut-work> k1l: What a great idea, to build a case that shows the company logo instead of something actually useful
<mcphail> got one in basket buth spiiny thing from hell again...
<popey> \o/ success
<k1l> sturmflut-work: well, isnt buying apple hardware all about showing you got apple hardware? :)
<pcctw_> process odrer doesn't work :(
<lotuspsychje> i dont think anyone will try to bend the ubuntu phone :p
<Tm_T> popey: is ther any way to have custom ctrl+ key combinations on terminal app keyboard?
<joolz> once again trying to buy a phone, once again slashdotted
<popey> Tm_T: yes, we're going to allow people to define their own
<popey> pcctw_: wfm.
<Tm_T> popey: great, as I use tmux with ctrl+b combinations for example
<sturmflut-work> Great, I have a phone in my cart but Checkout is broken again
<Tm_T> now if this ubuflu would give up I could do something that require brains
<Siilwyn> Trying to buy the phone...
<Siilwyn> Can't get past the process order page.
<pcctw_> I do checkout now :) wooow
<mcphail> Gah - payment failed and site has crashed again. I'm going to cry
<Siilwyn> :*(
<Siilwyn> I thought they would get there servers ready this time
<skerit> Try wire transfer payment. You'll have to wait until march anyway to get the phone.
<lotuspsychje> http://store.bqreaders.com/en/ubuntu-edition-aquaris
<Siilwyn> skerit, it won't even load the order page
<Neo31> got one :)
<mcphail> trying paypal
<skerit> Congrats Neo31 :)
<mcphail> OUT OF STOCK!
<Neo31> thx skerit
<Neo31> already outa stock?
<Siilwyn> wew, congrats Neo31
<Neo31> i think i was lucky on this one and site was stable enough
<Siilwyn> better luck next time, me mcphail and mcphail
<Neo31> yet still 5 or 8 minutes live is too little
<Elleo> that was quick
<lotuspsychje> Availability: Out of stock
<lotuspsychje> lol
<beuno> yikes
<beuno> 4 minutes
<Neo31> lol shit this is Bq hell
<mcphail> I'm a beaten man - don't feel like giving Bq any more chances TBH
<Siilwyn> damn
<joolz> "so, which ubuntu phone did you get? The page-error version or the out-of-stock version?"
<Neo31> why don't they just produce more if the demand is high
<Siilwyn> joolz, page error
<pcctw_> wtf??? * This product is currently out of stock.
<Neo31> mcphail, keep it up there might be other flashes keep following twitter
<joolz> I'm on Ubuntu (OS) since day 1 but this really pisses me off
<lotuspsychje> someone secretly ordered 1000 devices?
<robertopero> It was fast ... again
<Siilwyn> joolz, better yet I got the infinite spinning loading page version
 * Mirv managed to buy Bq!
<mcphail> Neo31: I don't mind it selling out, but if they don't have stock it shouldn't go in the basket
<Neo31> congrats Mirv
<Neo31> i see mcphail
<pcctw_> that's sad
<Mirv> no even timeouts, just careful waiting of the spinning shipping method etc fields after writing address
<Tm_T> Mirv: excellent (:
<joolz>  @bqreaders on twitter: "We've sold out! A HUGE thank you to those that are the new owners of the Ubuntu Phone."
<mcphail> @b******s
<lotuspsychje> how many devices are sold?
<Tm_T> Neo31: of course they will produce more, but that doesn't happen in minutes
<Neo31> no ideas yet
<Neo31> :/
<Siilwyn> Mirv, yeah I did the same but that spinning just went on, and on, and on...
<joolz> guess they didn't see it coming, much more demand then they expected
<Neo31> this is really sad
<Neo31> everyone here should have a phone
<Siilwyn> Now the big question remains, how much did they sell?
<Neo31> my friend just missed also
<lotuspsychje> and how much devices are they gonna release next time
<Siilwyn> Neo31, yeah all members of #ubuntu-touch should have 10 minutes in advance. (=
<Neo31> but still 8mn flash isn't serious
<lotuspsychje> Siilwyn: lol
<Siilwyn> I'm a sad panda now.
<robertopero> If somebody bought the phone in the second run, can share his/her order no?
<Neo31> lol lotuspsychje good idea
<Neo31> :p
<joolz> I wonder what the happy-new-owners vs. angry-people ratio is ;-)
<mcphail> Ah well, at least I now have a Bq log in :(
<Mirv> Siilwyn: :(
<lotuspsychje> the good news is, its a success tnx to all devs and more devices will come
<beuno> I guess BQ will have to hire more Gnomes to crank out phones
<Siilwyn> Does anybody know how the FireFox phone sales went? BQ also sold those right?
 * beuno doesn't
<Siilwyn> If I search for 'firefox phone BQ' it only shows me news about the Ubuntu phone. ;D
<beuno> yeah, I don't think they shipped a FF phone
<joolz> Siilwyn: well, then buy that one ;-)
 * joolz ducks
<Siilwyn> Smashes the wall.
<Siilwyn> I have no idea how you do that start thingy.
<Siilwyn> *star
<joolz>  /me
 * Siilwyn Cries in a corner
<joolz> got it
<Siilwyn> ^^
<rickspencer3> wow, that fast?
<rickspencer3> crazy
<popey> yeah, i snuck in at 59 mins past, seems the site broke at 2 mins past or so
<popey> then out of stock soon after
<Mirv> I managed to start at :03 and get through by waiting, by pure luck
<john-mcaleely> I don't think BQ sold firefox phones. I may be wrong
<rvr> Haven't heard about that
<pcctw> they shouldn't gave up with ubuntu edge...
<Siilwyn> Al right, I'm misinformed then.
<Siilwyn> pcctw, my thoughts exactly
<Siilwyn> Dual boot, here I come!
<pcctw> can I use some other device?
<beuno> pcctw, a Nexus 4
<Siilwyn> Which I luckily own.
<sturmflut-work> Oh come on, f*** you Bq! I had a phone in my cart, couldn't go to checkout, fell back to the cart and now it says "out of stock". What kind of shop is this? Usually the item is blocked for a specific time if you put it in the cart!
<beuno> I think there weren't expecting this amount of traffic  :)
<svij> even google fails always when it comes to sell their new devicesâ¦
<robertopero> beuno: What how much traffic? And how manyi divces sold? These are the main questions
<sergiusens> feels like buying a concert ticket in south america; they sell out in the first 5 minutes
<beuno> robertopero, I don't know the answers to those questions, only BQ does  :)
<beuno> whatever it is, they were expecting less, it seems!
<robertopero> yes
<Siilwyn> BQ should be open about the numbers in my opinion.
<robertopero> I think they sold only 1-2 thousand devices
<davmor2> beuno: at least the site stayed up this time :)
<rvr> davmor2: Yup
<robertopero> from bq twitter: "@askoldsblakis we,ve sold all the phones. You will be able to try again next week"
<robertopero> so maybe next week
<Riddell> Tassadar: hola, I'm looking at customising your nexus 5 rebuild for a kubuntu remix, I've got a server all set up, can you give me a pointer how you rebuild the devices tar? I'm thinking I want to do something similar on the ubuntu tar
<Tassadar> I don't think you have any idea what ubuntu touch is to be honest Oo
<Siilwyn> Next week already?
<Tassadar> adding kde would most assuredly not be part of the device-specific parts, and I highly doubt kde works with phone screens, let alone MIR
<TopGear> Has someone here actually succeeded at buying a BQ?
<robertopero> TopGear: \o me, at morning
<beuno> TopGear, yeah, I'm seeing plenty of tweets
<Siilwyn> TopGear, yes: Neo31 and Mirv
<TopGear> Ah, alright then
<Riddell> Tassadar: right, as I say I want to remix the ubuntu tar
<beuno> demand is just too much above the expectation atm
<Siilwyn> Fingers crossed for next week.
<Riddell> Tassadar: and we will look at replacing mir and making kde software for phones
<Tassadar> the devices tar is just android build from phablet.ubuntu.com, I don't know how the ubuntu tar gets build right now
<Tassadar> my server just downloads it from the official one
<TopGear> Hu, the next sale is next week? That's not really a 9-18 flash sale, BQ...
<Riddell> Tassadar: right, and you use ubuntu-device-flash for that I guess, is there something in ubuntu-device-flash to do the remixing or do you add that yourself?
<beuno> TopGear, I think they expected stock to last longer on each batch  :)
<Tassadar> I have no idea what do you mean by remixing
<Tassadar> I just add like two files needed for hammerhead to the tar
<ogra_> Riddell, why would you touch the device tarball at all ?
<Riddell> ogra_: I won't, I'll be touching the ubuntu tar, but I wonder what the easiest way to do that is, if ubuntu-device-flash has a nifty way to do it or it needs some extra scripting
<ogra_> you should just pull it as is from Tassadar's server into yours ... and make your server provide a different rootfs
<ogra_> with kubuntu ...
<ogra_> ubuntu-device-flash only downloads and copies the files
<ogra_> it doesnt touch the contents
<Riddell> ogra_: right, so my question is how to provide a different rootfs
<Riddell> does that come from the preinstall-touch file at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/20150210/ ?
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> Riddell, i havent touched that code for a while but it used to work for buildin a rootfs when we started, it probably doesnt anymore but might give you an idea how the rootfs is produced https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/project-rootstock-ng/trunk
<Scooty-loo> I want to molest the BQ e4.5 ubuntu images...
<ogra_> Scooty-loo, and you can ! :)
<ogra_> it sall open and unlocked for your convenience
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: I mean the rootfs, boot image, system image, recovery image
<Scooty-loo> basically everything >_<
<ogra_> you can pull the developer image from system-image.ubuntu.com from the devel or devel-proposed channel
<ogra_> it has all bits
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: kay will check it out
<Scooty-loo> ogra_: as bq images are not on cdi preinstalls
<ogra_> not sure hwat "cdi preinstalls" mean
<popey> cdimage
<ogra_> ah
<Scooty-loo> cdimage*
<Scooty-loo> yup
<Scooty-loo> krillin is it's code name?
<ogra_> right, the device bits dont come from cdimage
<ogra_> yeah
<kenvandine> ogra_, i flashed trusty on my old busted grouper and setup a chroot for builds :-D
<kenvandine> ogra_, can i just disable lightdm to keep it from starting a shell and unity-system-compositor?
<popey> kenvandine: just apt-get uprgade it, that'll break it sufficiently not to start unity :)
<ogra_> kenvandine, you need to hack up /etc7init/android-tools-adbd.conf ...
<ogra_> kenvandine, but that will stop working soon as well ... since we check for the screen lock state
<ogra_> (needs moar hacks :) )
<kenvandine> ogra_, not going to update it, so it won't break
<kenvandine> it's trusty :)
<kenvandine> just to host a vivid chroot
<ogra_> ah, yeah, that will be fine
<ogra_> you might want to make the whole thing writable and completely remove /etc/system-image/writable paths then :)
<ogra_> well, not remove, but empty it
<kenvandine> it's working fine
<ogra_> that way you would be able to even use apt-get upgrade
<kenvandine> i just want to reduce memory usage
<kenvandine> i don't want to :)
<kenvandine> last time i did that on this thing it wouldn't boot at all
<ogra_> haha
<ogra_> k
<Scooty-loo> whao ubuntu-touch for the e4.5 is fat
<Scooty-loo> 1.3 GB, poor 8GB flash
<Scooty-loo> there goes 1.3 GB
<kenvandine> ogra_, so what do i need to change in android-tools-adbd.conf
<kenvandine> ogra_, i want adbd though :)
<mandel> Elleo, ah, good point, I need to calculate the space when unzipped
<mandel> Elleo, I wonder how do I do that..
<kenvandine> mandel, hey... did you see i already had a MP for that backport?
<mandel> kenvandine, nop, on it
<kenvandine> your branch also included some other commits too
<kenvandine> i disapproved your's :)
<kenvandine> mandel, how about your fix for not handling the error?
<mandel> kenvandine, oh! you we where block with that, let me do an MP with tours as a prer-equeisite
<mandel> kenvandine, sorry I had no idea, I was focused on ciborium
<kenvandine> ?
<kenvandine> i never saw a branch from you to fix that
<ogra_> kenvandine, just remove the "on lightdm" stuff
<mandel> kenvandine, I have the code around, my brain must be playing tricks, give me a few mins
<kenvandine> mandel, for trunk first
<kenvandine> ogra_, from which service?
<kenvandine> everything with on lightdm?
<mardy> tedg: hi! Could a notification helper use Online Accounts? AFAIK they cannot use the network, so using OA would make little sense, but I just want to double-check with you
<ogra_> from start on in /etc/init/android-tools-adbd.conf
<Scooty-loo> what is ubuntu touch's current implementation of fstab?
<Elleo> mandel: I'd have thought most zip libraries would be able to provide that info
<Scooty-loo> I mean, thing that's similar to fstab
<kenvandine> ogra_, ah... that isn't there in trusty :)
<Elleo> mandel: worst case you could check for failure and delete afterwards
<kenvandine> ok, so just disable lightdm
<kenvandine> i see what you were saying
<ogra_> kenvandine, yeah, in trusty we still had a fully open adbd ...
<mandel> Elleo, in this case we are not using a zip lib but a helps, I should be able to call the helper an request the size
<Elleo> mandel: ah yes, I remember now
<Scooty-loo> whao ubuntu touch e4.5 image's init relay so much on the uboot commands x.x
<Scooty-loo> rely*
<kenvandine> bfiller, remember i mentioned in the meeting yesterday our settings tests have become flaky again?
<bfiller> kenvandine: yes
<kenvandine> bfiller, quite a bit of that looks like it's not even starting settings
<kenvandine> like you mentioned today
<kenvandine> so settings is also affected
<kenvandine> gotta be infrastructure
<bfiller> kenvandine: sounds like an infrastructure issue
<bfiller> yup
<bfiller> can you let the CI guys know on ubuntu-ci-eng
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> so what other apps are having the issue?
<Neo31> " we experienced a huge demand this morning, receiving over 12,000 orders per minute" on twitter
<Scooty-loo> whao
<Scooty-loo> I wonder if ubuntu-touch will eat more apple pie or lollipop...pie? :P
<bfiller> kenvandine: when messaging-app imports a photo from gallery where does it get stored in messaging-app?
<kenvandine> it doesn't get stored
<kenvandine> it should go to HubIncoming
<kenvandine> but then it gets scaled down
<kenvandine> it shouldn't stay
<Siilwyn> Don't know if posted before but maybe somebody is interested in the 'Ubuntu game' of BQ: http://www.bq.com/gb/game-ubuntu
<adrian47> UT is installed to data partition right?
<adrian47> There should be something in system partition?
<ogra_> depends, i think the loop mounted image setup just uses the data partition to put all img file in
 * ogra_ forgot ... havent touched that quite a while 
<kenvandine> john-mcaleely, i've confirmed the string change for "Mobile" is in image 233
<john-mcaleely> kenvandine, thank you!
<kenvandine> john-mcaleely,  rtm proposed on krillin to be clear, so confirmed the bug is fixed
<john-mcaleely> +1
<kenvandine> john-mcaleely, np, had to flash anyway
<john-mcaleely> thanks
<adrian47> ogra_, i have trouble to get yesterday state.. i don't have now spinning logo :(
<ogra_> :(
<adrian47> I'm not sure why because i'm doing it in the same way as yesterday.
<kenvandine> seb128_,  so syncing the schema from rtm didn't work out... there are changes in vivid that aren't in rtm yet
<kenvandine> so now the shell doesn't start :/
<seb128_> kenvandine, :-(
<kenvandine> seb128, so maybe a manual upload for the schemas?
<kenvandine> bfiller, do you know when the gsettings schema change for mms-group-chat-enabled might land in rtm?
<kenvandine> i guess that won't help either, because they'll sync it... and whack the other vibrations setting
<bfiller> kenvandine: not sure when mms group chat is milestoned for
<kenvandine> bfiller, we have a problem with the schemas, the other vibration branch landed in trunk and rtm, but not vivid
<kenvandine> that package is usually synced from vivid to rtm
<kenvandine> and i need to get it in vivid
<kenvandine> i tried a sync from rtm to vivid, but that loses the group mms change
<kenvandine> so no good
<seb128> kenvandine, wfm if you want to do that
<kenvandine> seb128, i think a manual upload of the schema package is the only solution
<kenvandine> ok, i'll upload what's in trunk and push directly to trunk with the changelog change
<kenvandine> oh... or i could propose a branch against trunk for a no change rebuild :)
<kenvandine> then put that in the silo :)
<seb128> yeah
<bfiller> kenvandine: it's fine if the schema change for mms gets into rtm - we are not exposing it yet on the UI
<bfiller> so don't think it would hurt
<bfiller> and we'll want it soon anyway
<kenvandine> bfiller, less risky not to
<kenvandine> https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas/other_vibrations/+merge/249364
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<kenvandine> mind a review?
<SturmFlut> Neo31: Now the question is: For how many minutes were they selling phones at 12.000 orders per minute? The first "out of stock" reports came in at about 9:40 am, the german shop started reporting "Out of stock" at about 10:20 am. So let's say they were effectively selling phones for about 45 minutes. At that rate, that would be half a million phones
<SturmFlut> Which just can't be right
<seb128> kenvandine, done
<kenvandine> seb128, thx
<Neo31> SturmFlut, " receiving over 12,000 orders per minute" doesn't mean successful orders, they have meant order request which most of it failed.
<Neo31> we all seen the server issues the morning and they explained that they are sorry about that issue
<Neo31> it is absolutely 12000 order request and not successful order
<SturmFlut> Neo31: I know, but that's no how the english language works. "receiving over 12,000 orders per minute" means that you actually got 12.000 orders per minute which you now have to fulfill. In all other cases one would write "order attempts" or "requests" or "clicks" or whatever. The statement Bq made on Twitter is incorrect and misleading.
<SturmFlut> I got my Aquaris E4.5 with Android within three days, BTW
<kenvandine> kind of sucks to have installed that bad version of the schemas which kept unity8 from starting
 * kenvandine shakes fist at gsettings
 * kenvandine blames desrt, good thing he's not in this channel to defend himself :-D
<zapa_> anyone got any ideas how many E4.5 units were sold today?
<zapa_> really hope the flash launch was a success :D I want more, high spec, phones out there :)
<SturmFlut> zapa_: Someone on G+ claimed that someone from Bq told him that it was just 250 units in the morning. Bq themselves claim 12.000 orders per minute.
<zapa_> well this morning only a few people managed to buy before the website went full crash-fest
<zapa_> or it could have been 12.000 page refresh on the buy page :D
<zapa_> would be cool if they managed to sell >20K devices. For a flash sale, that looks great
<dobey> well, if they actually sold 12K/min and sold out in 9 min, then that's 108K phones sold
<ogra_> and if it only were 250 units you at least know the upper and the lower margin now :P
<ogra_> so much fun to speculate on numbers :)
<zapa_> it's a big gap there :D
<zapa_> still, if they did sell 108K phones, then wooho! Soulds like a success
<dobey> i doubt it was only 250 units, simply from a manufacturing cost perspective
<zapa_> now we need more manufacturers!
<ogra_> dobey, i was just connecting the numbers from the backlog in here :)
<dobey> ogra_: yeah, i'm just providing more data to speculate on ;)
<ogra_> haha
<zapa_> was there any announcement on a ubuntu tablet or something?
<zapa_> that's what I really want
<dobey> no, but you can buy a 2013 nexus 7, or a nexus 10, and install ubuntu on it if you want one now
<zapa_> can't find any 2013 n7 here (second hand only) and the n10 more expensive than the n9
<SturmFlut> Let's be realistic: The whole mobile market in spain is less than 20 million devices, Bq has a market share of about 3 percent. That means they sell less than 600.000 devices a year, or about 1500 devices a day. I highly doubt that the flash sale today sold more devices than Bq usually sells within two weeks, so that would mean the number can't at any rate be higher than 15.000
<lazyPower> I have a question regarding releases / channels - and the today scope that i've seen referenced in promo material
<lazyPower> is this part of a customized image or is my ubuntu app store fu really weak?
<SturmFlut> dobey: 108K is impossible, at 170 â¬ per unit that would mean they made more than 15% of their annual revenue in just one hour
<ogra_> lazyPower, not sure about your app store foo ...
<ogra_> lazyPower, but the Today and Nearby scopes are bq material
<lazyPower> ah ok. so its not something i'll ever get/see on a vanilla/dev flash.
<ogra_> it is their customization
<dobey> lazyPower: not at the moment, at least
<ogra_> it might go into the store, but likely not right now :)
<dobey> SturmFlut: are you talking about only spain, or all of europe?
<lazyPower> thanks for the info gents
 * lazyPower hattips
<SturmFlut> dobey: All of Europe. Mundo Reader, the parent company of Bq, is active in most of Europe and made 115 million euros of revenue in 2013. Their market share hasn't grown much and they are basically unknown outside of spain.
<SturmFlut> dobey: It would be quite spectacular if a company which produces about half a million phones a year takes the risk of producing 108K phones with an untested new operating system, and then sells them within an hour ;)
<dobey> well, being the first real ubuntu phone has certainly garnered a lot more media attention across a much wider spectrum than just spain :)
<adrian47> ogra_, UT dbus needs to have working wifi?
<ogra_> nah
<ogra_> you need a loopback interface up and running though ... so localhost can be found
<adrian47> cause yesterday i get dbus errors in ~.cache/upstart, look at this part paste.ubuntu.com/10176365
<adrian47> it's from dmesg
<ogra_> read again ;)
<ogra_> (it doesnt say dbus)
<ogra_> looks like some process to push the wifi firmware to the device ... something that runs on the android side
<adrian47> oh, my bad :)
<Jokersww> Anyone have a problem flashing nexus 7 to develop channel?
<adrian47> haha!!! :D
<adrian47> ogra_, are you still here?
<kass> hi .
<ogra_> adrian47, only with half an eye ...
<adrian47> ogra_, I inserted sim card and it works like before :)
<ogra_> heh
<adrian47> ogra_, I removed it morning and then problems appear :)
<ogra_> iteresting ... nothing should really depend on the presence of a sim
<ogra_> from the boot perspective at least
<kass> is BQ 4.5e ( ubuntu touch mobile ) avaibale in bruxelles in France .
<ogra_> sure
<kass> @ogra , sure for me ?
<ogra_> yes
<kass> :))))))))))))))))))))))
<kass> thank you .
<ogra_> :)
<dobey> ogra_, adrian47: is that about dbus? if it works ok when you have actual network access, then the problem is in the configuration of the loopack interface for 127.0.0.1
<ogra_> kass, http://www.bq.com/fr/ubuntu.html ... but you can only order it during "flash sales" they get announced on the twitter account of Ubuntu or bq
<adrian47> dobey, without sim I was getting bootloop, with sim i see spinning logo
<ogra_> https://twitter.com/bqreaders
<kass> is it available in the store ?
<dobey> kass: you have to wait for the next flash sale
<kass> good .
<kass> thank you .
<adrian47> but now adb didn' works again :( i see it as device in adb devices but when adb shell i see still clear line in terminal
<zapa_> someone mentioned last night that SDL is available on ubuntu touch
<zapa_> tried a simple hello world and including SDL2, just to check <SDL2/SDL.h>
<zapa_> builds on PC, fails on target device with "no such file"
<zapa_> anyone mind shining some light on what should I do?
<ogra_> zapa_, sdl isnt preinstalled, no
<ogra_> Mir supports execution of SDL2 code
<ogra_> if you want to provide apps using SDL2 you have to ship the libs in your click package
<zapa_> understood
<SturmFlut> zapa_: I was about to build a template for that, https://github.com/Sturmflut/ubuntu-touch-sdl-template , but it's heavily outdated
<SturmFlut> "Builds, packages, fails on the device."
 * SturmFlut has no time for Ubuntu Touch development ATM because of his stupid job
<zapa_> ^ tell me about it!
<zapa_> actually thinking of taking a 2 week leave so I can setup some stuff for myself
<SturmFlut> Well, the job is actually awesome, but it doesn't have anything to do with mobile devices. Exactly the opposite
<nhaines> popey: the Ubuntu gift boxes at the Ubuntu Insiders event had a little brochure that explained the Ubuntu phone's interface.  If that wasn't bq-specific, can I get the artwork so I can have it printed for the Ubuntu booth at SCALE?
<popey> nhaines: hmm, I dunno where that came from.
<popey> nhaines: I'll ask.
<nhaines> I wasn't able to tell whether or not the instructions came inside the bq box or the gift box.
<kenvandine> maybe from BQ
<nhaines> popey: Thanks.  I'd love to have anything at all like that for the attendees.  :)
<adrian47> ok, I'm back adb works
<maettu_> hi i just installed the multi-rom app, there are diffrent Version of Ubuntu touch
<maettu_> like utopic / utopic-custumized /utopic-demo /utopic-costumized-generic
<maettu_> now my question is which should i choose for installation
<adrian47> dobey, where is this configuration? unity8 didn't want to start cause of dbus
<dobey> adrian47: the lo interface is by default configured in /etc/network/interfaces
<dobey> why do people ask questions and then immediately quit. grr
<adrian47> dobey, thanks i see it but what now..  :)
<dobey> adrian47: i don't know. i don't have your phone and i'm not porting to it, so i can't really tell you what's not working on it :)
<maettu_> hello i just installed ubuntu touch via MultiROM app on my Nexus 7
<maettu_> How long does it take to boot for the first time?
<maettu_> I see the Ubuntu-logo spinning arround...
<dobey> it takes a while the first time
<maettu_> a while like 15min or longer?
<dobey> the big logo with the orange progress bar underneath, or just the small logo by itself?
<maettu_> small one in the middle
<taiebot> It would be nice to release the today Nearby and photo scopes for other platforms. I find it quite sad that it is not made available to people who are testing, developing and trying the phone.
<pngo_> how can I list mods in ubuntu-touch? lsmod does not work.
<SturmFlut> pngo_: What mods? Kernel modules?
<pngo_> yes
<dobey> pngo_: you might have to do it inside the lxc container that the android bits are in. you can probably reboot to recovery and do it in there, too
<dobey> although i'm not sure if that will be useful to do for anything
<pngo_> dobey, can you tell me why I can't do it in terminal?
<SturmFlut> pngo_: Just look at the content of /sys/module/
<dobey> taiebot: yes, you're not the first to have asked about them. the request has been made known
<pngo_> ok
<dobey> pngo_: i would suspect it has something to do with the way the android kernel bits are used
<SturmFlut> lsmod just parses the content of /proc/modules, but the strange thing is that /proc/modules is empty. Despite procfs being correctly mounted etc.
<SturmFlut> Are Android kernels bult without module support?
<SturmFlut> I never noticed
<dobey> i doubt it
<dobey> there's /system/lib/modules/3.4.0-6-mako/ and there are .ko files in it
<SturmFlut> dobey: You are right. /proc/modules is empty because apparently the system doesn't load a single module by default.
<SturmFlut> pngo_: Does lsmod fail with an error or does it simply not output anything?
<pngo_> no output
<Rubesman> cwayne: Are we going to get new today and nearby scopes for the nexus 4?
<SturmFlut> pngo_: That's not the same as "doesn't work". It doesn't output anything because there are actually no modules loaded. If you load one, it will show up.
<pngo_> so how can I disable/blacklist sound card? is it possible?
<pngo_> ok but looks like it works different than linux desktop
<SturmFlut> Hm the sound drivers are not built as modules, so blacklisting them won't work
<pngo_> so is there a way to blacklist drivers?
<cwayne> Rubesman: ill have to check, not yet at least
<nhaines> cwayne: how about now?
<Rubesman> cwayne: Thanks! Is this stuff made by bq then? Are there in general other device specific functions or apps?
<dobey> why would you blacklist sound drivers on a phone?
<nhaines> dobey: because you hate phone calls?
<dobey> nhaines: remove the SIM?
<nhaines> Not good enough!  The calls might still get in somehow!  :)
<cwayne> Rubesman: it's made by canonical (by my team actually :P), but I'm unsure of the plans for releasing them atm
<pngo_> just testing touch's flexibility. just like I can mute mic but can not adjust  mic volume.
<pngo_> I like user control over device. this is why I like Linux over windows.
<Rubesman> cwayne: Alright thanks! Keep up the good work and dont forget about the nexus!
<nhaines> cwayne: So my question is how did bq get the Today and NearBy scopes to the left of the App scope and how can I do that for weather?  <3
<cwayne> nhaines: magic :P  but get to your manage dash screen, then press and hold weather, and you can drag it around the change the order
<cwayne> but the way today/nearby did it was through the custom tarball, dconf keys and whatnot
<zapa_> so in order to create an app I have to have a manifest.json file added to my project. Guess starting with C++ Project isn't enough
<nhaines> cwayne: ooh, that must be really new, because it hasn't worked even a couple of months ago.  :)
<nhaines> Err, not sure why my brain put in months when I meant weeks.
<cwayne> nhaines: yeah, it's from the 'manage dash' redesign :)
<cwayne> oh, should've been there weeks ago
<cwayne> just not very discoverable tbh
<nhaines> Oh, it changes to a "manage" app.
<nhaines> yeah, I was just about to say, I'll bet that doesn't clear the usability tests.
<dobey> pngo_: mic volume can be adjusted, there just is no ui for it
<dobey> pngo_: kenvandine filed a bug exactly for that, the other day even
<dobey> zapa_: if you use the ubuntu templates it will be there
<pngo_> dobey, do you know if it via pactl ?
<dobey> pngo_: yes, you should be able to control the input volume via pulseaudio
<pngo_> I was testing it last night and muting was only working. I was unable to control mic volume. I will test  more
<pngo_> I noticed that if I'm in my wifi area, I'm unable to send mms, but as soon as I leave it, I have no problem to send it. I still can not receive them.
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-12
<mterry> How do I see a list of package differences between touch image versions again?
<mterry> nm, found some links in the daily landing emails
<kenvandine> dobey, no, i don't think the mic volume can be adjusted
<kenvandine> pulseaudio ignores changes made to it
<kenvandine> i think rsalveti was going to look into that
<Drew_Neilson> Is anyone in here?  I have a question
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/02/96735
<lotuspsychje> 12.000 orders per minute lol
<lotuspsychje> We experienced a huge demand this morning, receiving over 12,000 orders per minute and unfortunately our servers went down as a result.
<lotuspsychje> We only had a limited number of units for todayÂ´s flash sale. More will be made available as further flash sales are held throughout the month. Please bear in mind that all orders placed for Ubuntu smartphones will not be delivered in any case until March.
<lotuspsychje> Thank you for your patienceï»¿
<lotuspsychje> source: https://plus.google.com/+bqreaders/posts/cViX4AygDje
<antoniut> does anyone know how many ubuntu phones were sold yesterday?
<Netham45> If I were to build an image using the 'depricated' instructions how difficult would it be to bring it up to date with the latest version?
<saikarthik> Hello anybody here
<sturmflut-work> Wellark_: Is there a design document/roadmap for the connectivity-api?
<ogra_> Netham45, it wouldnt work ... what you need to do is kind of joint work of the deprecated guide and the AOSP build instructions from the wiki
<ogra_> and a bunch of badly or undocumented stuff
<Netham45> Hrm, that's disappointing.
<ogra_> work is going on to provide a new porting guide ... but i dont know when it will be available
<Netham45> I think I'll wait until it gets cleaned up a bit to play with it then.
<ogra_> well, in case there was support for your device in AOSP 4.4 using this guide (but with 4.4 branches, the versions there are outdated) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AOSPBuild would get you started
<ogra_> with a setup from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Building#Set_up_your_development_environment
<stevenm> Probably already been asked, but this BQ phone thing - can I put something other than crappy Ubuntu on it?  (I don't mind to slight *all* Ubuntu-based distro's - just those with Unity :P)
<stevenm> i'm guessing android is a yes - since that's what the Aquaris E45 normally runs
<stevenm> damn that sounds like some kind of moisturiser
<ogra_> why wouldnt you then just buy the android version ?
<stevenm> ogra_, I'd want some *other* GNU/Linux OS - but just not one with unity
<dpm> morning ogra_, quick question, how can I see the revision number of the latest image on ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09?
<ogra_> dpm, as always with system-image-cli -i
<stevenm> ogra_, I'd rather have Hildon than Unity
<ogra_> stevenm, heh, well, happy porting then ... and yes, the ubuntu phone is completely open
<ogra_> but you will need some EGL based UI, i doubt it would be easy to get X running without proper drivers
<stevenm> ogra_, so is what runs on it currently - wayland?
<stevenm> sorry no - mir
<ogra_> sure
<stevenm> oh i doubly hate it then
<stevenm> i thought mir was a way off yet
<ogra_> no, its a way forward
<dpm> ogra_, thanks but I'm running -proposed on that device, and I'd like to find out the revision number of the image for the non-proposed channel
<stevenm> ogra_, so it's ARM and Mir - restricts what apps will run some what - i'm guessing there is no (current) way of running an X app on it?
<ogra_> anyway, i guess you wouold need to port hildon to mir or wayland first to make use of it
<ogra_> stevenm, https://plus.google.com/108554416426692294217/posts/eNUArFBzh3W
<ogra_> though note that you would need to hack that in, thats not a default ubuntu phone install
<stevenm> so that's LO on X on Mir on Ubuntu Phone?
<stevenm> XMir ?
<ogra_> the LO on XMir on Mir on an ubuntu phone
<stevenm> right
<ogra_> and xeyes indeed
<ogra_> (on the right)
<stevenm> hildon was pre-gnome3 wasn't it?  and it's all put abandoned?
<ogra_> yep
<stevenm> i wonder if the MATE guys might want to continue it :P
<ogra_> btw, what do you hate about unity ? especially unity8 ... ?
<stevenm> well I'm wasting your time anyway - i'll never use unity or mir - and to be honest even if I wanted to I can install ubuntu touch on my nexus 4
<ogra_> yep, the developer version
<stevenm> just don't like the layout, constantly searching for stuff - prefer my menu's... don't like how the application menu bars get hijacked... it's basically all for the touchscreen experience - when not everyone wants that
<stevenm> plus the privacy concerns
<ogra_> you havent tried unit8 i guess :)
<stevenm> plus how it's fate is now tied to Mir - and Mir is just canonical grap to separate itself from the rest of the community
<stevenm> *crap
<robjh> xfce will make an awesome phone interface....
<ogra_> stevenm, wow, harsh words ...
<stevenm> 99% of distro's say... we'll go from X to Wayland (even Ubuntu's own official remixes)... Canonical - nah we won't
<ogra_> stevenm, could you imagine that i as a developer like mir ? or unity ? and that this isnt a giant conspiracy but that we develop it because us developers love it ?
<stevenm> only reason I see - is to be in control of their own app ecosystem
<stevenm> the differences between mir and wayland are not that significant - but significant enough to breed incompatibility
<stevenm> time for canonical to cash in :P (further)
<ogra_> if you say their you mean me ... (and quite a few others here ... many from the community that spend a lot of their spare time because they like it ... )
<stevenm> i'm not going around blaming developers - but the fact Mir exists at all ... is because it's been steered by someone higher up to create the need for it
<ogra_> mir and wayland arent that far apart ... but if we would have gone with mir we would still discuss protocol changes and code commits instead of having a product out
<ogra_> err
<stevenm> in other words - canonical doesn't *want* to play nice with other GNU/Linux counterparts
<ogra_> *if we would have gone with wayland indeed :)
<stevenm> right but at least you'd all be contributing into the same project - what benefits canonical benefits all the distro's
<ogra_> stevenm, to how many OSS projects have you contributed code yet ?
<stevenm> it's not rocket science what I'm saying :)
<stevenm> ogra_, around 4 or 5 - mostly extra functions, bug fixes
<stevenm> nothing big I admit - but I don't need to be a big shot programmer to see what canonical are up to
<ogra_> stevenm, i about 100 in my ten years at canonical ... mostly on paid time
<stevenm> the point?
<ogra_> stevenm, you are accusing me to not contribute to upstream projects ...
<stevenm> in 3 words....    divide and conquer
<stevenm> no I never once said that
<w00t> ogra_: not to say "uhm, no", but jolla shipped a wayland-using product in 2013
<ogra_> iÃm just telling you that your assumption is wrong
<ogra_> w00t, not the point ...
<stevenm> look you've gotta work on whatever your employer says to - i'm not having a go at you *at all*
<ogra_> w00t, our convergence plans would not have worked with wayland and it was moving to slow back then
<stevenm> but whatever tha "master plan" is over at canonical higher management - it's starting to show
<ogra_> stevenm, well, i dont know any ccanonical developer who is different than me
<robjh> the whole gnu ecosystem will benefit from canonical's work in getting ubuntu to run easily on general purpose phone systems. even wayland
<stevenm> jeez stop taking it so personally
<stevenm> you wanna critise where I work  - go ahead! i won't care! :P
<ogra_> stevenm, why should i not take it personally ... you are badmouthing my work :)
<ogra_> you are not badmouthing *where i work* you are badmouthing the products i develop
<ogra_> based on assumptions and troll posts on the internet
<stevenm> ogra_, no i'm not bad mouthing your code - i'm bad mouthing the *need* for a canonical to back a separate project that they *know* only they'll be using - and frankly, I think that's what they were hoping for
<ogra_> stevenm, did you consider that developers might have asked for it ?
<stevenm> i don't need crappy blogs to join the dots myself thanks
<popey> can we dial down the rhetoric in here please.
<stevenm> popey, fair enough - i drop it :)
<zapa_> good day o/
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  Who should I talk to if I want to publish static SDK images? Like images what the SDK  sets up as click chroots?
<ogra_> bzoltan_, probably someone in #ubuntu-.release ... or to the foundations team (i.e. steve)
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  cool, thank you
<ogra_> bzoltan_, i guess you would want ubuntu-core with sime build stuff added
<ogra_> *some
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  this is what I came up with -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10185715/ Two functions ... one I would use to create the rootfs image and the other one to set up the image for the SDK
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  this is only a tech review, nothing real product. But I will need a place where the SDK can download the static images
<ogra_> bzoltan_, you could provide it from people.c.c as an interim solution
<bzoltan_> ogra_:  I though about that...I will start from there
<robjh> is the tablet interface still aesthetically different from the phone interface? Ive not seen any news on tablets for some time.
<bzoltan_> robjh:  the grid unit is differen, so more icons/content fit to the scopes. But the overall experience is the same. On tablets  the default view is landscape and some apps start in a sidestage. It is pretty cool.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Lost Penny Day! :-D
<abeato> jgdx, ping
<robjh> thank you bzoltan_
<jgdx> abeato, pong
<abeato> jgdx, hey, I wonder if you could raise priority of bug #1415833
<ubot5> bug 1415833 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Wrong tech set in Cellular screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415833
<abeato> jgdx, because a related bug has been reported in tangxi: bug #1420796
<ubot5> Error: Launchpad bug 1420796 could not be found
<jgdx> abeato, this must hit rtm as well as vivid?
 * jgdx is not on top of what image goes where
<abeato> jgdx, vivid
<jgdx> abeato, ack
<abeato> jgdx, thanks
<popey> ogra_: do you know if we have a way to force the screen to stay on with powerd?
<ogra_> we once had ... not sure we still do
<popey> oh, we have "lock when idle: never" in settings...
<popey> that'll do
<ogra_> yeah
<ogra_> there used to be a powerd command too for this though
<popey> yeah, and I recalled you mentioning it
<ogra_> something with powerd-cli
<zapa_> sturmflut_:
<zapa_> any chance you know what's up with deploying your framework?
<zapa_> template*
<Guest26524> Hi guys, one little question... PHONE already unlocked... with ubuntu terminal this command: sudo ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap... but I get some trouble as my device is MSM8916. Is it possible to install generic image in my device anyway ?
<Guest26524> With stable channel I get almost the same: Device MSM8916 not found on server https://system-image.ubuntu.com channel stable
<k1l> what device is it exactly?
<jgdx> dobey, FDE on touch, you know who to talk to?
<k1l> Guest26524: on ARM its not only about the SoC its about the other parts, too, since we dont have universal drivers like on the pc hardware.
<Guest26524> k1l My device is a Huawei G620S smartphone...
<Guest26524> I believed that Ubuntu Touch could be installed on almost every device... throught generic images...
<jgdx> Guest26524, problem is that no smart phone is generic
<jgdx> popey, you know anything about FDE on the phone?
<k1l> Guest26524: like is said: there are no generic drivers. you need to put the exact drivers into the image for that device.
<k1l> and i cant even find a developer community on xda for that device :/
<Guest26524> I'm not an advanced of this topic... but is there anything I can do to help creating this image ??
<Guest26524> Is there a written guideline anywhere ?
<popey> jgdx: I don't know what FDE is?
<k1l> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DeprecatedPorting    this is the old porting guide. but that needs some knowledge about that stuff.
<jgdx> popey, full disk encryption
<popey> oh, in the future, yeah.
<jgdx> but we're living in the future
<Guest26524> k1l: Thanks, I'll take a look of this document...
<AlanBell> anyone know if the BQ device supports bluetooth 4.0 aka bluetooth SMART aka bluetooth LE?
<popey> ondra: ^ do you know? I recall asking you this the other day but don't remember the answer.
<john-mcaleely> the hardware may well do. Ubuntu does not
<ondra> popey HW yes, in sw stack not yet
<john-mcaleely> we won't until we upgrade our BlueZ stack
<john-mcaleely> popey, AlanBell ondra ^
<popey> ta
<ondra> john-mcaleely yep same
<ogra_> iirc that is on the schedule for vivid
<AlanBell> ok, interesting, thanks
<ogra_> (no idea if it is "on schedule" thogh :) )
<ondra> john-mcaleely there are talk of BlueZ5 with new QT
<john-mcaleely> indeed. it's in a plan. as ogra_ says, not sure where the plan is on the schedule
<ondra> john-mcaleely and backporting kernel patches to support BlueZ5
<ondra> yep
<ogra_> i think desktop is done and touch lags a bit behind
<ogra_> (on the userspace side)
<ondra> ogra_ I guess desktop is easier since it runs on latest kernel
<ogra_> well, kernel wont matter for the touch side either ... that has to be fixed per-device anyway
<ogra_> getting it integrated with indocators and low level userspace was what i was referring to
<ogra_> *indicators
<ondra> ogra_ Bluez5 requires higher version of kernel than what we use, so we need to do some backporting, which you don't need to do on desktop since you have right kernel version
<totgard> anyone else tried to install Ubuntu touch on ZTE v987 ?
<ogra_> ondra, yeah, but that wasnt what i was referring to :)
<ogra_> totgard, probably someone in the xda forums
<Tm_T> popey: where do I send bug reports?
<popey> Tm_T: what in?
<Tm_T> popey: initial boot process questions for example
<popey> not sure where that would go actually, can you be more specific?
<popey> what's the issue?
<Tm_T> well it asks language and alike, but it doesn't seems to ask timezone
<popey> it doesn't?
<popey> I haven't run it for a while, but that's possible.
<popey> The welcome wizard is part of unity, so http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bugs  is where I'd file it
<Tm_T> I can do factory reset again to ensure, but I don't recall seeing it on either times
<Chipaca> jdstrand: question for you (i think): we're seeing some (not many) apparmor policy warning messages for calls that are allowed, and that work after a bit. Does it take a time to load the policies? Is there a way to know when they are "ready"?
<Chipaca> jdstrand: this is seen by the telegram dudes
<popey> Tm_T: there's a file that can be touched to make it run again
<popey> i think
<Chipaca> popey: Tm_T: phablet-config welcome-wizard, IIRC
<Tm_T> confirmed with emulator, no single word about date/time/timezone
<cwayne> Chipaca: heya, have you compiled go code in a click chroot for i386 to work on emulator?
<Chipaca> cwayne: for amd64, not i386
<Chipaca> i don't think i did it with i386, although i might've. First time I did it, and my move to 64 bits, were about the same time but I think the chroot was later.
<Chipaca> cwayne: why?
<Chipaca> cwayne: xnox's guide still works, adjusting the frameworks up: http://blog.surgut.co.uk/2014/06/cross-compile-go-code-including-cgo.html
<cwayne> Chipaca: was considering building all my clicks for i386, but have only done it in a chroot for armhf thus far
<Chipaca> ahhh
<Chipaca> now i understood your question
<Chipaca> had it backwards :)
<Chipaca> cwayne: i can give it a go later; it's something i've been wanting to do anyways
<Chipaca> because go 1.3 on i386 seems to have some rather ugly gc issues on the c stack
<Chipaca> so we need to test there every time explicitly
<Chipaca> (as go 1.3 is what's in vivid)
<Chipaca> which reminds me, we need to finish filing that bug
<cwayne> :)
<dobey> jgdx: oh i guess talk to security team :)
<Elleo> ooh, full version of cut the rope is now in the store: https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/com.zeptolab.cuttherope.full
<kenvandine> Elleo, cool!
<Elleo> yeah, hopefully it'll sell well enough to convice some others to port their games too :)
 * kenvandine buys
<Elleo> it works on the n4, but not as smoothly as on the bq phone
<kenvandine> jgdx, is there a known issue with ModemTechnologies?
<kenvandine> ModemTechnologies = gsm umts
<kenvandine> jgdx, i just flashed an lte capable radio firmware, and get set-tech-preference to lte now
<kenvandine> and really get 4g :)
<kenvandine> but...
<kenvandine> ModemTechnologies doesn't list it
<kenvandine> jgdx, and dobey had noticed the same thing on his hammerhead
<kenvandine> jgdx, so even though lte works on my mako, it isn't showing up in settings
<jgdx> kenvandine, itsa known
<jgdx> kenvandine, at least, it looks like bug #1415833 maybe perhaps?
<ubot5> bug 1415833 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Wrong tech set in Cellular screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415833
<kenvandine> jgdx,  i think that might be 2 bugs
<kenvandine> i've seen the wrong pref selected at start before
<kenvandine> after a fresh flash/wipe
<kenvandine> 2g is shown
<kenvandine> but the icon shows 3g
<kenvandine> probably different than the lack of lte showing up in ModemTechnologies
<kenvandine> jgdx, now that i have a radio that supports lte, i appear have working 4g but ofono doesn't list it
<kenvandine> but i can set it from the script
<jgdx> kenvandine, ack, then two bugs. But if modemtechs is empty, it's likely ofono
<kenvandine> oh yeah
<kenvandine> definately ofono
<kenvandine> not empty though
<kenvandine> just not listing lte
<kenvandine> but set-tech-preference lets me set it to lte
<jgdx> err, sorry, not listing lte
<kenvandine> which then changed the icon to 4g
<kenvandine> albeato listed this bug in that bug too
<kenvandine> i just think his report is for 2 separate bugs
<kenvandine> i think one might be a libqofono bug and the other one ofono :)
<kenvandine> i seem to recall after flashing, seeing the 3g icon
<kenvandine> but settings showing 2g only checked
<jgdx> abeatos bug might be a race in u-s-s come to think of it
<kenvandine> but i haven't seen it since
<kenvandine> abeato listed both bugs in that bug report
<kenvandine> so he's seeing the lack of lte as well
<kenvandine> arale is on vehicle for delivery
<kenvandine> so exciting, like christmas morning :)
<kenvandine> abeato, looking at bug 1415833, i think those are 2 separate bugs
<ubot5> bug 1415833 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Wrong tech set in Cellular screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415833
<abeato> kenvandine, hey, so first, which device are you talking about that has 4G?
<sturmflut-work> Does anybody know how they implemented "Cut the Rope"? Is it HTML5 or something else?
<Elleo> sturmflut-work: html5, with a little qml splash screen
<mrb101> Hey.. I have a Samsung Trend Plus phone.. didn't see anything about it supporting Ubuntu phone any where ! i want to know where can i get information on how to try out if it might work and try to port it ?
<kenvandine> abeato, mako
<kenvandine> i flashed the radio with the hybrid lte firmware
<kenvandine> and i get lte now
<kenvandine> but i have to change the pref with set-tech-preference
<kenvandine> because it isn't showing under ModemTechnologies
<kenvandine> abeato, which is what you reported for arale in that bug
<abeato> kenvandine, ok, the problem is that ofono does not auto-detect LTE capabilities for mako, so you need to enable that through an environment variable
<kenvandine> but i think that a seperate bug from the initial setting
<abeato> kenvandine, for arale we auto-detect if the modem is LTE-capable
<kenvandine> abeato, ah... and you still didn't get it listed :)
<kenvandine> what env variable
<abeato> kenvandine, so you need to set OFONO_RIL_RAT_LTE in /etc/init/ofono.override
<kenvandine> abeato, = 1 ?
<abeato> env OFONO_RIL_RAT_LTE=""
<abeato> for instance
<abeato> or 1
<abeato> it just needs to be defined
<abeato> then, restart ofono
<abeato> you should see lte listed as available technology
<kenvandine> abeato, is it expected to let me change it to lte without that?
<abeato> kenvandine, I guess it should although I have not tried that with mako
<sturmflut-work> mrb101: We are all waiting for the new Porting Guide
<kenvandine> abeato, ok, that worked
<kenvandine> abeato, so your bug is different
<abeato> cool
<abeato> yes, it is not about that
<mrb101> thanks.. :)
<abeato> kenvandine, so I just see that the firs time I go to cellular settings I always see technology=2G, which is false
<abeato> kenvandine, if I get out of that page, and come back, the setting is the real one
<kenvandine> race condition
<KrizTmarK> where can i download the ubuntu touch
<genii> KrizTmarK: Check the channel topic for links
<simosx> what's the suggested way of compiling additional software for the bq phone? I have the Ubuntu SDK with appropriate cross-compiler.
<popey> yeah, the armhf should be good for doing that
<dobey> simosx: not sure what you're asking but the e4.5 ubuntu edition is just ubuntu. you just build the same as you would for any other click packaged app
<simosx> so, one option would be to produce armhf binaries and put on the phone (on the Ubuntu SDK I selected utopic armhf, so shared binaries will probably work).
<simosx> dobey, to create a click package for most packages that are found in 'universe', I would follow the instructions at http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/building-cross-architecture-click-applications/ ?
<popey> vaguely, yeah
<popey> or just grab the already existing arm build from the archive if it's a simple binary
<popey> may need rebuilding if it needs relocating to /opt tho
<Tm_T> hmmm, is there any way to make text smaller in the browser when the site fits content to the screen?
<simosx> thanks
<Tm_T> I have ~1.2 mm character height on laptop screen and almost 2 mm on the phone, I'd rather have both using that smaller size
<dobey> simosx: most things already packaged in debs are very likely not suited to run on the phone as-is. i don't know what you're trying to build, but many apps are built around the expectancy of traditional LSB/FHS path layouts, and don't do well as confined things
<popey> also, x
<ogra_> and y !
<simosx> dobey, I am trying to figure out how to compile existing software that can use the sensors and other facilities of the phone.
<simosx> I'll focus on Qt Creator for the time being.
<dobey> ogra_: berlin!
<ogra_> sausage !
<dobey> ogra_: there's a display manager named sausage?
<dobey> ogra_: if so, why are we even bothering with mir? :)
<ogra_> dobey, you have to ask mark why he didnt pick a nicer name :)
 * ogra_ would write the "mustard WM" if we had a displayserver called sausage :)
<Stskeeps> mobile devices are like sausages, they are lovely and nice, but you don't want to see how they're made.. :P
<ogra_> haha, yeah
<ogra_> well, you dont want to dip it in mustard either though :)
<w00t> depends, i think it'd be quite tasty
<ogra_> well, you dont want to get a call while eating then though :)
<Elleo> we could rename the phone: Mobile Ubuntu System, Targetted At Ridiculous Developers
<Tm_T> while adding soundcloud account, after giving login credentials the thing just get stuck
<Tm_T> I have white screen with cancel button
<adrian47> ogra_, hello :)
<adrian47> ogra_, have you maybe some idea what can I do more?
<Tm_T> ha, soundcloud works if I don't use google login but soundcloud directly
<dobey> Tm_T: logging in with yet another provider probably messes up their oauth flow
<Tm_T> dobey: yeah very likely
<Tm_T> it does work on android but it does things differently
<zyga> ogra_: on current vivid image (95) on nexus 7 I see some weird behavior -- leave the device on with screen turned off and it turns on all by iteself (the screen) every few minutes
<zyga> ogra_: when that happens I can swipe to unlock
<zyga> ogra_: have you seen this?
<taiebot> Purchasing cut the rope... It is slow.........
<taiebot> been on purchasing process please wait for a good 2min now
<beuno> taiebot, using paypal?
<beuno> we're having some issues with paypal
<taiebot> beuno: yes using paypal. first time i tried. I am also having a weird selection box for paypal. it looks like a drop down menu but there is only paypal to select
<beuno> taiebot, indeed. I've filed a bug for that. For paypal, we're getting timeouts, if you try a few times it eventually goes through
<taiebot> beuno: there should be a cancel button because when it is stuck you can not do anything
<beuno> taiebot, indeed
<taiebot> had to turn network off.
<beuno> dobey, ^
<dobey> the cancel button was removed for the part where we're waiting on the server to do something, because clicking cancel there was causing other bad things to happen
<dobey> taiebot: the weird selection box for paypal, you mean the list of payment methods in the app? there is a link at the bottom of the screen to add another payment method
<taiebot> yep i have two entry a big Paypal and a tiny paypal
<dobey> taiebot: screen shot?
<beuno> dobey, yeah, that dialog is confusing
<beuno> filing bugs
<dobey> oh yeah, because it's paypal and not a credit card so we don't have the card info to display there
<beuno> right
<beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pay-ui/+bug/1421364
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1421364 in pay-ui "Payment screen unclear on what password is need" [Undecided,New]
<taiebot> dobey : http://i.imgur.com/Mrndl7R.png
<taiebot> and http://i.imgur.com/bnvasyX.png
<taiebot> look at the tick i do not understand why it is different on the two screenshot
<k1l_> the downarrow is more like a dropdown menu and not a tick
<dobey> taiebot: because the drop-down widget in qml is weird when there's only one item in the list
<dobey> it ends up just changing the arrow to the check, and then back
<k1l_> and i think its paypal as headline and paypal as description.
<taiebot> Should it be a drop down menu and not a list ?
<dobey> and the double PayPal/PayPal is because the server is sending it as both the description of the payment type and the description of the 'choice' of payment for that payment type
<dobey> taiebot: it is a drop down menu
<dobey> taiebot: it's an OptionSelector in qml
<beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/pay-ui/+bug/1421367
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1421367 in pay-ui "UI to select paypal or credit card is confusing for first-time users" [Undecided,New]
<beuno> dobey, taiebot, ^
<adrian47> I need help: tiny.cc/i8lytx
<adrian47> :)
<adrian47> and I have adb access.
<taiebot> adrian47 which phone are you porting?
<adrian47> taiebot, DHD
<taiebot> ??
<adrian47> HTC Desire HD
<sturmflut_> mzanetti, popey: Did you also notice that "Cut the Rope" got into the store without showing up in the RSS feed
<mzanetti> no... I missed that
<mzanetti> was waiting for it
<sturmflut_> mzanetti: I'm looking for the bug
<sturmflut_> Aaaaaaaargh
<mzanetti> :)
 * sturmflut_ bangs his head
<sturmflut> So much fail
<mzanetti> let me guess... it bails out on non-free apps
<sturmflut> mzanetti: No, it missed all apps with architecture != armhf
<sturmflut> mzanetti: Try refreshing the feed
<mzanetti> oh
<mzanetti> really?
<sturmflut> Jep
<mzanetti> darn... that are quite a lot I think
<mzanetti> lol
<mzanetti> noone noticed
<sturmflut> That's the problem when you don't really have the time to check your stuff
<sturmflut> I wish I could take three months off from work to build all the Ubuntu stuff I have in my head
<mzanetti> I wonder why so many webapps are packaged as armhf though
<dobey> mzanetti: do they include a scope?
<sturmflut> mzanetti: I think that may have been the default in Qt Creater last year
<mzanetti> right...
<mzanetti> dobey: what do you mean?
<sturmflut> I have to re-check my own webapps, one of them is even slightly broken by now :/
<dobey> mzanetti: well, untappd for example is a webapp and a scope and an accounts plug-in
<dobey> mzanetti: scopes can only be c++ or go, so they are architecture specific
<sturmflut> dobey: Ah, so it is possible to put an app and a scope into the same click package? That's something I wanted to ask yesterday
<mzanetti> dobey: ah,.. no... ogra's webapps for instance
<mzanetti> I saw them all coming by in the rss feed
<dobey> sturmflut: yes
<dobey> mzanetti: oh, i don't know. i think he has a scripts that creates them and it probably just puts 'armhf' for everythign :P
<mzanetti> probably, yes :D
<mzanetti> actually mine too... I think it's the sdk that does that
<mzanetti> as I didn't change the default
 * mzanetti files a bug
<sturmflut> mzanetti: My girlfriend is on level 7 of "uu" and already hates you because she can't put the damn phone away anymore
<mzanetti> haha
<mzanetti> actually no... the sdk does correctly set "all" as the default for webapps
<taiebot> mzanetti: just seen kodiremote are you still supporting xbmc  remote as well?
<mzanetti> taiebot: not really... however, kodimote works with xbmc too (at least for the near future)
<mzanetti> until kodi devs break the api basically
<mzanetti> so far they only added features which simply won't be hidden from the ui if your xbmc is too old
<mzanetti> ..will be..
<taiebot> It is just the two apps might be confusing..
<taiebot> did not see kodiremote
<mzanetti> yeah, kodimote was a bit of beta until now
<mzanetti> will do a release of of xbmcremote soon that advises users to switch to kodimote
<mzanetti> and then unpublish xbmcremote in a couple of months
<taiebot> ah cool
<taiebot> Got the email for paypal i still cannot pay for any app. My password is somewhat not good
<beuno> taiebot, the password that the screen asks for is your Ubuntu SSO password
<beuno> then you get sent to the paypal site
<taiebot> ahhhhh
<taiebot> i thought it was my paypal account as it is my correct email address
<sturmflut> mzanetti: According to my girlfriend uu needs "more rewarding feedback". Like blinking stuff if you succeed, audio feedback and so on
<beuno> that would be https://bugs.launchpad.net/pay-ui/+bug/1421364
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1421364 in Canonical System Image "Payment screen unclear on what password is need" [High,Confirmed]
<beuno> :)
<mzanetti> sturmflut: fair enough.
<sturmflut> mzanetti: ...and she still hates you. Very much so.
<mzanetti> :D
<mzanetti> rpadovani: hey
<mzanetti> rpadovani: if you want (and can), there are some branches for remonders to review
<mzanetti> or popey ^
<mzanetti> should all be easy ones
<taiebot> beuno: it was painfull. paypal window was not optimised for phones
<taiebot> but cut the rope is installing :-)
<taiebot> if everybody paid the same as me zeptolab should be rich 600 million download * 1.99 pound
<taiebot> ahhhhh download error
<k1l_> popey: fyi: https://answers.launchpad.net/dekko/+question/261923 regarding email and encryption
<sturmflut> mzanetti: Bargh, same problem as always: I fixed the feed and added some sugar, now i works in Thunderbird and no longer in gReader
<mzanetti> :D
<sturmflut> Hooray for standards
<hardtail> Hi there. Has anyone had success putting Ubuntu Touch on an Asus T101?
<sturmflut> hardtail: If it is not listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices, probably not
<hardtail> thank you I will check this out!
<sturmflut> mzanetti: Okay, it was the fault of gReader, deleting the feed and re-adding it fixed the problem.
<sturmflut> hardtail: Does the T101 come with Windows
<sturmflut> ?
<hardtail> yes
<hardtail> My windows is wiped off it, only have access to BIOs. lol
<hardtail> and I lied its T100T sorryu
<sturmflut> hardtail: Then you can probably put the normal x86 Ubuntu on it, you may find some useful information on http://sturmflut.github.io/linux/ubuntu/2015/02/04/installing-ubuntu-on-baytrail-tablets-version-2/
<hardtail> thanks so much, I will read through all of this now
<sturmflut> hardtail: You will probably run into lots of problems though. On my Bay Trail tablet the WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth and sensors don't work, and more recent kernel versions have problems talking to the flash memory
<hardtail> hmm ok, thanks
<popey> k1l_: lulz
<k1l_> popey: from now on you can link them to that answer :)
<sturmflut> Hmmm, would it be possible to deliver the default schroot kits as images? Creating a new kit in Qt Creator takes ages
<kenvandine> sturmflut: that would be sweet
<ahoneybun> has anyone thought of making a IGN app?
<kibibyte> yo
<sturmflut> ahoneybun: Yes, you ;) https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.aaronhoneycutt.ign
<kibibyte> where to but this phone
<ahoneybun> sturmflut, using QML and a API
<ahoneybun> no web
<sturmflut> ahoneybun: Hm, at least there isn't one in the store. Is the API free to use?
<ahoneybun> I found this one sturmflut https://www.mashape.com/cosmin/ign-com-video-games-rating
<k1l_> kibibyte: http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html
<k1l_> kibibyte: but not available at the moment
<kibibyte> and when meizu will release their ubuntu phone
<k1l_> sometime in march?
<sturmflut> ahoneybun: That doesn't seem to be the official IGN API
<ahoneybun> not official
<sturmflut> ahoneybun: Hmmmm, then it is questionable if you are allowed to use their content in your app.
<ahoneybun> yea I guess so
 * ahoneybun needs to stop distro hopping ubuntu based
<ahoneybun> I just want to mess with APIs sturmflut
<ahoneybun> do something cool really
<dobey> ahoneybun: the annoying thing is that to do the really cool stuff you need push notifications, which means you need buy-in from whoever runs the server your app is talking to, which is a huge pain if it's not your server
<ahoneybun> dobey, yea I guess that's why there is no facebook and twitter api apps
<ahoneybun> there is a twitter scope
<ahoneybun> check this out http://www.pluralsight.com/courses/qt-quick-fundamentals
<dobey> i think it would just be hard to build a good twitter app that uses the api, and is as functionally useful as the web site
<dobey> and ugh, snow :(
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-13
<wxl> so i can't access my device with adb. i've got the sdk installed, then i plug in the usb and no dice. device not found.
<wxl> nevermind :)
<genii> wxl: USB debugging turned on?
<Drew_Neilson> anyone in here?  I have a question
<nhaines> !question
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<nhaines> Although it's busiest during European business hours.
<clitjes> morning guys, haven't seen the porting guide yet could you maybe link me a draft? I'm currently trying to do this with the old guide and some common sense
<jrg> so the 2nd batch sold out already? heh
<jrg> just curious but does the uk model support US freqs and just isn't being sold here? or doesn't support a US network at all ?
<svij> jrg: it only supports 2G in the US
<jrg> damn :(
<jrg> ah well. guess use yokels will just have to wait
<jrg> i feel like a teenager who is mad that all the cool ps4 games go to japan first :/
<jrg> knowing the US tho.. it will probably AT&T exclusive for 10 years :/
<svij> jrg: I always feel like that, when all the services starts in US and not in the EU ;)
<jrg> haha
<jrg> ah well. at least by the time it gets here they'd have ironed out all the bugs :)
<jrg> it isn't like ad-droid started out with a smooth launch or anythign else for that matter
<jrg> i remember my HTC G1 ... and people still bought the just because of the google hype
<jrg> it was awful heh
<jrg> so does this one support the docking feature that was supposed to be a thing?
<jrg> where you can connect it to a dock and it runs unity?
<svij> jrg: no
<svij> expect that in 2 years
<svij> or hopefully less than two years
<jrg> svij: ah ok. :/
<jrg> that's too bad. seems like a pretty neat idea.
<dholbach> good morning
<ogra_> mzanetti, the curse of the early adopter ... when i uploaded my first webapps (and wrote the script i use to create new ones) you could only upload armhf packages ... the store got support for other click arches only later
 * ogra_ will try to not forget to switch them next upload
<bzoltan_> mvo: ping
<sverzegnassi> when I try to open a picture stored in $HOME/Pictures through the file manager, the gallery-app creates a copy of the image in the folder and open that copy instead of the original one. is it a known issue?
<Chipaca> why does my keyboard connected via an OTG cable work to enter the password, but not in the terminal itself?
<mvo> bzoltan_: hey, you are on my radar, in fact, next :) I guess its about the release?
<bzoltan_> mvo: well :) you saw that folks go ballistic about my click fork :)
<bzoltan_> mvo: It was just the question of time when somebody hit that conflict. Naturally. I think it is fairly easy to solve. If you check the latest MR and push out a release of the devel branch then we are fine and I can backport the  Vivid release to Trusty
<uhhimhere> http://telecom.ashishbanerjee.com/spandroid
<mvo> bzoltan_: yeah, that sounds like a plan
<mvo> bzoltan_: sorry, I'm in under that snappy rock currently, I should have done that days ago
<mvo> (the release)
<bzoltan_> mvo:  but I must have the Trusty click release in the SDK PPA ... so the snappy ppa should not release a conflicting click package for Trusty
<bzoltan_> mvo:  No worries... here we meet the phone and snappy :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Radio Day! :-D
<Chipaca> JamesTait: radio! that's like a dinosaur cellular network, yes?
<Chipaca> JamesTait: an eukaryote cellular network, maybe
<JamesTait> Chipaca, long range, though.
<Chipaca> JamesTait: especially if you got the frequency just right and bounced it off the ionosphere ;)
<Chipaca> heh, just realized i think of that as longer range / more interesting than, you know, talking to the voyagers
<Chipaca> out in spaaaaace
<JamesTait> Chipaca, the voyagers were taken over by aliens years ago. They've been beaming back the equivalent of "office party photocopier" shots just to see how we react. ;)
<Chipaca> JamesTait: I knew it! No wonder it's called Uranus.
<JamesTait> TouchÃ©!
<Chipaca> no, thank you
<downow> how can i add more search engines in downow app
<seb128> mzanetti, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/bluetooth-key-hint-workaround/+merge/249622 just fyi
<mvo> bzoltan_: what was the version used in the ppa again? i.e. what version to I need to be "bigger" ?
<mvo> bzoltan_: nevermind, found it
<w-flo> rsalveti, hi :) I love the ubuntu emulator, very smooth compared to the default android emulator. I noticed a kernel panic that is solved in upstream goldfish kernel though and reported bug 1420366 about it. I've fixed it locally but wanted to make sure someone from Canonical knows about that issue so it can get fixed eventually.
<ubot5> bug 1420366 in linux-goldfish (Ubuntu) "[fixed-upstream] kernel null pointer dereference after setsockopt(â¦IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIPâ¦)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1420366
<rsalveti> w-flo: awesome, thanks for finding out the patch
<Tm_T> uhhh nice
<w-flo> rsalveti, I guess you eventually sync up to the latest goldfish kernel anyway, so that should fix it
<Tm_T> switched sim-card in my phone and now the swipe to get to passcode entry doesn't work
<rsalveti> w-flo: yeah, will check if we can do a simple rebase, otherwise will just add that patch
<w-flo> rsalveti, thanks a lot :)
<rsalveti> thank you
<Tm_T> ha, reboot fixed it
<mardy> popey: hi! About bug 1420743, was that a new account you created while logging in?
<ubot5> bug 1420743 in Ubuntu Reminders app "Signing in to evernote hangs forever" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1420743
<popey> mardy: no, existing account
<mardy> popey: thanks. What is the "local mode"?
<popey> mardy: the new version of reminders can work without online accounts
<popey> i.e. with no need for evernote account
<mardy> popey: do you know some internal detail about it? Does it work on setting some flag on the library, or are there some config files being read to toggle that behaviour?
<mardy> popey: I suspect that it might be that the evernote toolkit is being told not to connect to the internet, and because of that reason, fetching the username fails
<popey> hang on..
<popey> I am not using reminders
<popey> I am _only_ going to online accounts and trying to add an evernote account
<mardy> popey: yes, but the evernote account plugin loads a binary module, which IIRC comes from the evernote toolkit
<popey> right, but that's the same as the one from previous releases
<mardy> popey: we rely on that to get the account username, after the OAuth process has completed
<popey> the changes to offline use are inside the reminders app
<mardy> popey: my question is whether that could be configured to not talk to the internet
<mardy> popey: if the main app does something like echo "no internet" > ~.config/evernote.ini, the plugin would read that, even if started from the system settings
<popey> I don't know. mzanetti developed this.
<mardy> mzanetti: do you know if the changes you did might affect the functionality of the evernote toolkit?
<pngo_> wxl; try log in to your phone first and than adb shell
<pngo_> sorry,did not scroll all the way down
<_1_Sid> QUESTION: Does the Ubuntu Touch policy allow a third party proxy app?
<dobey> i don't quite understand the question. you mean to configure a network proxy?
<_1_Sid> I want to connect to a proxy so that all my traffic from and to the phone will be directed via the proxy-server.
<_1_Sid> the endresult should be that I have a different IP address  for my requests.
<dobey> _1_Sid: proxies are not yet supported in the system. a third party app wouldn't be able to add proxy support, no
<dobey> i hope openvpn support can be added soon though
<_1_Sid> That would do the trick as well. Do you have a rough estimated timeframe for it?
<uhhimhere> are there dyson-esque cyclonic filter alternatives for PC fans?
<uhhimhere> is there such a thing as an opensource bubble?
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, hey there, did you see that CI is grumpy, seems settings segfaults under CI vivid?
<k1l> can you rephrase?
<kenvandine> seb128, i was asking plars about that earlier this week, it's not starting
<kenvandine> sometimes
<kenvandine> plars, did you ever figure that out?
<plars> kenvandine: If the app is segfaulting, I'm not sure what we can do about that. Were you able to get the crash log from it?
<kenvandine> i wasn't seeing segfaults actually
<kenvandine> so that must be different
<seb128> kenvandine, well, maybe it's not a segfault
<seb128> it seems to exit
<seb128> not sure why
<seb128> or to not start
<seb128> the logs are not useful
<kenvandine> remember in mine the app did start, but the test thought it didn't start
<kenvandine> plars, which i can't reproduce locally on my mako
<kenvandine> all the tests passed here
<plars> kenvandine: we were talking to elopio about that on irc when it happened. It seemed like either there was some kind of race, or else autopilot/ubuntu-app-launch was failing to see that the app started
<kenvandine> plars, yeah... but... system-settings isn't using upstart-app-launch
<kenvandine> it's using the other helper to start it
<kenvandine> elopio had been suggesting i switch that a while back
<plars> kenvandine: according to elopio, autopilot uses it to start the app
<kenvandine> not for settings
<plars> ah
<plars> ok
<kenvandine> the other apps do
<kenvandine> it's not all that simple for settings to change, it turned into a little more work
<plars> so perhaps that's why it has this problem and the others do not?
<kenvandine> plars, anyway, so we can rule out ubuntu-app-launch for settings
<kenvandine> plars, well camera-app was having the problem too
<kenvandine> plars, and this is a new problem, which i can't reproduce on my device
<kenvandine> jgdx tried to reproduce it too
<kenvandine> it's only happening in CI
<plars> kenvandine: give me a bit, we are on a standup right now
<kenvandine> and, i think it's passing in smoke testing
<kenvandine> camera-app was failing in smoke testing
<kenvandine> for settings it was just CI
<kenvandine> afaik
<kenvandine> so could be completely unrelated
<jgdx> kenvandine, yeah, on mako. One test consistently failed on ci with symptoms of a crash. Could not repro on mako (vivid) locally.
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, in fact, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/13/%23ubuntu-ci-eng.html#t10:44
<kenvandine> jgdx, but is there a crash file?
<seb128> psivaa_ said there was a crash file attached
<kenvandine> i think elopio found that it did start
<kenvandine> unless he was talking about camera-app
<jgdx> kenvandine, not that I recall by looking at the artifacts.
<jgdx> seb128, kenvandine, but yeah, everything points to security panel tests. We recently added the sim unlock (c++ binding), which might cause this.
<kenvandine> but it passes locally
<jgdx> something intermittent then
<jgdx> It uses a service in indicator-network :p
<seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, did you see the log? there is a .crash there
<jgdx> seb128, yeah, looking. Do you know why the stacktrace talks about qtfeedback?
<seb128> no idea no :-/
<TeraJL> hi there i'm trying to build it, but i get this error "Invalid clone.bundle file; ignoring." and then nothing happens, if i cancel and re run "repo init -u https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/p/aosp/platform/manifest.git -b phablet-4.4.2_r1" i get nothing... it just stays there with no output
<kenvandine> mandel, do you think you can get the check hash fix in a vivid silo today?  we really need to get the rtm landing lined up for monday or tuesday
<slvn_> Hi! I am developping/porting native applications in C/C++ for smartphones/tablets.
<slvn_> And I would like to open an URL from my app, to a browser.
<slvn_> That would be great if "xdg-open" could be installed by default on the image!
<TeraJL> i waited allot and got "RPC failed; result=22, HTTP code = 503 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly"
<ogra_> rsalveti, ^^^ any idea whats going on with our gerrit ?
<ogra_> i had the same issue today (with a different branch though)
<rsalveti> argh, might be the usual lack of memory issue
<rsalveti> might need a restart
<ogra_> lots of 503s
<rsalveti> yeah, we get that from time to time
<rsalveti> TeraJL: ogra_: we're restarting the service in a few, so please try again in a few minutes
<TeraJL> rsalveti: oh, ok thanks :)
<mandel> kenvandine, yes
<mandel> kenvandine, I should be able to get it there, I'm just hunting a small issue with a test
<kenvandine> mandel, thx!
<seb128> kenvandine, if you do a settings merging please include https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/set-correct-application-name/+merge/249613
<simosx> lsusb for the bq phone shows 'Bus 001 Device 007: ID 2a47:0c02' (no description). Should a description be added to the USB ID?
<kenvandine> seb128, will do!
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
<ogra_> simosx, purely cosmetic, but yeah, that would be nice ... pitti ^^^ would that be a udev wishlist bug ?
<wxl> neither `ubuntu-device-flash` or `system-image-cli` seems to properly handle the --list-channels switch. has the procedure changed?
<Elleo> wxl: yep, ubuntu-device-flash is split into sub-commands now
<Elleo> wxl: you need to pass that option to the query sub-command
<Elleo> wxl: e.g. ubuntu-device-flash query --list-channels --device=mako
<wxl> thanks Elleo. wiki needs a little update then :)
<Elleo> you're welcome :)
<wxl> unfortunately i can't edit developer.ubuntu.com so https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/ among other places
<wxl> should that bug be filed against the ubuntu website, Elleo ?
<Elleo> wxl: I filed a bug recently here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1418245 I'll add a comment about the case you ran into as well
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1418245 in Ubuntu App Developer site "ubuntu-device-flash instructions are out of date on installation page" [Undecided,New]
<wxl> great thanks :)
<Elleo> no problem :)
<dpm> Elleo, someone is asking me about how predictive text works in Ubuntu, but how the OSK works is a bit blurry to myself too, so I thought I'd ask you for the basics. So for starters, ubuntu-keyboard is a plugin for maliit, right? And we're using upstream maliit as a framework?
<Elleo> dpm: yep, and for predictive text we're using presage in our maliit plugin: http://presage.sourceforge.net/
<Elleo> dpm: as well as getting some extra suggestions from hunspell
<Elleo> dpm: except for pinyin, for which we use libpinyin
<dpm> Elleo, ah, thanks. Is the maliit framework (or server?) still active as a project? I had heard they weren't much
<Elleo> dpm: there's been a bit more activity recently (mostly courtesy of the Jolla folks I think), but it's not massively active
<wxl> Elleo: does system-image-cli work the same way?
<dpm> Elleo, so how does presage work in relationship to maliit? Is it also a plugin? Is it shipped as part of maliit or is it a separate package?
<Elleo> dpm: presage is a separate package and it doesn't have any direct relation to maliit; we just use it in our own maliit plugin (ubuntu-keyboard)
<Elleo> dpm: although I think it might be used in one of the maliit example plugins (which looks like it pulled in some stuff from ubuntu-keyboard a while back)
<Elleo> wxl: according to --help system-image-cli should work normally, but it doesn't seem to return anything
<Elleo> wxl: so it might be a good idea to log a bug against that
<dpm> thanks Elleo
<wxl> Elleo: yeah that was the issue i noticed too
<Elleo> dpm: no problem :)
<wxl> hm and the help for ubuntu-device-flash seems incomplete too
<pitti> simosx, ogra_: description should be added to usbutils
<ogra_> pitti, thanks
<wxl> Elleo: if you run system-image-cli -vv --list-channels i think the problem becomes evident
<john-mcaleely> silly question time (google failed me), is there a way to enter the android container?
<Elleo> wxl: ah yeah, definitely file a bug for that
<wxl> Elleo: i can't ubuntu-bug from the phone can i?
<simosx> pitti, thanks. shall I add a bug report on launchpad or someone will do it?
<Elleo> wxl: not yet I'm afraid
<Elleo> wxl: has to be done the old fashioned way ;)
<TeraJL> hi there, i'm trying to build this "https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/wip-ubuntu-touch-for-oneplus-one.266170/" but on "Adding roomservice.yml to .repo/local_manifests" i tried to add but i get "build/core/product_config.mk:222: *** Can not locate config makefile for product "aosp_bacon".  Stop."
<wxl> Elleo: gross. :)
<Elleo> heh
<pitti> simosx: bug report appreciated (needs upstreaming/can't do right now)
<simosx> pitti, I can do the process (as described at http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html). Is "bq Aquaris E4.5 (ubuntu edition)" a good text?
<ogra_> simosx, the android device uses the same IDs
<pitti> simosx: I don't feel qualified to answer that; but why "(ubuntu edition)", is that really a different product ID?
<ogra_> so leave off the bracket stuff
<simosx> pitti, I'll go for "bq Aquaris E4.5".
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, do you know the incantation to get a shell in the android container? I'm trying to parse the lxc docs, without luck so far
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, lxc-console -t0 -nandroid
<john-mcaleely> -t0 aha
<ogra_> john-mcaleely, note that it tells you how to get out of it ... (special key combo)
<john-mcaleely> ogra_, thanks
<ogra_> :)
<simosx> pitti, here is the report, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usbutils/+bug/1421740    if someone can bless it, I'll take the next steps according to http://www.linux-usb.org/usb-ids.html
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1421740 in usbutils (Ubuntu) "Add USB ID description for 2a47:0c02 "bq Aquaris E4.5"" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> bfiller,  see bug 1421696, didn't you have a bug filed for that ages ago?
<ubot5> bug 1421696 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Phone notification: You have to click just in its icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421696
<kenvandine> we really need to fix that, I'm surprised we never did
<bfiller> kenvandine: hmn, doesn't ring a bell. that's a unity notification issue
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i remember you complaining about that
<kenvandine> i thought you had filed a bug... but i could be wrong
<bfiller> probably did, I agree it's bogus
<kenvandine> it might have been in the bar actually
<kenvandine> that you were complaining about it
 * kenvandine confirms bug... it is freaking annoying
<kenvandine> bfiller, uh oh... i'm looking at the changes file for vivid #97
<kenvandine> qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras0.1 was dropped
<kenvandine> but qtdeclarative5-ubuntu-ui-extras0.2 wasn't added
<kenvandine> i saw the seed change land
<kenvandine> oh, gallery-app and camera-app wasn't updated in that image
<dobey> kenvandine: part of the problem there is that for SMS it presents a reply entry when you tap on it, but might not be the best thing to have there.
<kenvandine> bfiller, weird, didn't those change the same time as mediaplayer-app?
<bfiller> kenvandine: gallery and camera are clicks (as well as debs, but debs only used on the desktop)
<bfiller> kenvandine: but -- 97 does have a broken mediaplayer app which I fixed last night. there was an unused import of extras0.1 that I missed
<bfiller> kenvandine: that should be fixed if you update
<kenvandine> bfiller, ah... forgot about the clicks :)
<kenvandine> right
<kenvandine> i guess the seed didn't get updated in time
<kenvandine> bfiller, did the clicks get to the store already?
<kenvandine> if so, they'll be broken, since new dep isn't in the image yet
<kenvandine> bfiller, so we need to make sure the images get updated with the seed change before those clicks land in the store
<bfiller> kenvandine: no the clicks have not been updated yet, also we wrote them to be dynamic so they will work with or without ui-extras in the image
<kenvandine> oh  great!
<kenvandine> then ignore me :)
<kenvandine> i was worried
<bfiller> kenvandine: cause can't be sure if user will have updated their system or not
<bfiller> kenvandine: I was worried too - but we worked it out earlier in the week
<slvn_> Hi! I repost again.
<slvn_> I am developping/porting native applications in C/C++ for smartphones/tablets.
<slvn_> And I would like to open an URL from my app, to a browser.
<slvn_> On ubuntu desktop, we can use "xdg-open", I am not sure that it is on smartphone/tablet.
<slvn_> That would be great if "xdg-open" could be installed by default on the image!
<FreeNet[node]> does ubuntu phone supports VR headset?
<popey> slvn_: not sure how browser is launched, but it gets launched from various places.
<FreeNet[node]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7soFYjn_pQc
<FreeNet[node]> i would love to see sammy in full VR
<popey> slvn_: e.g. the about box in dropping letters has links which spawn the browser
<popey> FreeNet[node]: enough
<wxl> anyone got suggestions for cheap service plans in the US?
<popey> mhall119: picked up a couple of SIMs recently
<mhall119> wxl: AT&T has a voice and SMS plan for $25/month
<mhall119> you can add 100MB or 3G for an extra $5
<wxl> mhall119: that seems better than straighttalk
<mhall119> if you want more data than that, you might be better off with one of T-mobile's plans
<wxl> i'd like to have it really limited honestly
<wxl> i could almost live without data, but it's a good thing to have
<mhall119> it's like 250 minutes of talk time, and I think unlimted sms/mms
<mhall119> wxl: since it's pre-paid, you can add the data at any time
<wxl> hm maybe it's not better than straight talk which is 1500 phone/unlimited text/100mb data for $30
<mhall119> or add another 100MB for another $5 mid-month, which I've done before
<mhall119> now I'm paying $45/month for 1GB of 3G, and unlimited 2G
<popey> wow, internet is expensive in USA!
<mhall119> yes :(
<wxl> verizon has some interesting options, but the thing that's weird is that the pre-paid minutes expire
<wxl> dumb
<mhall119> I could get it cheaper on a contract plan, but I like the non-commitment of pre-paid
<mhall119> wxl: also Verizon won't let you use a GSM phone
<wxl> mhall119: you using your ubuntu device as your main phone?
<wxl> oh boo
<mhall119> wxl: yup, Nexus 4, has been my daily driver for 1.5 years now
<wxl> cool
<wxl> mhall119: so verizon wouldn't let you use a nexus 4 even though it is compatibel with umts if it's also compatible with gsm?!
<mhall119> nope
<wxl> that's freaking dumb. they must have dropped 2g altogether, huh?
<wxl> popey: on the other hand, we're spoiled by 4g. we're just behind south korea, japan, and australia for 4g penetration (well, in 2013 at least)
<popey> 4g is even more ridiculously expensive :)
<popey> I live on a tiny island where wifi is common :)
<wxl> yep but it soooooooooooo fast :)
<wxl> that's cool
<sverzegnassi> 45$/month... I'll never sound off about Italian providers
<wxl> municipal wifi hasn't really caught on in the us
<popey> there is a bandstand in the park near me which has free wifi in it
<wxl> we have some really terrible wifi in eugene in select places, mostly near municipal buildings
<popey> people congregate round the bandstand, not to hear the band, but for the wifi
<wxl> hahahah
<ataalik> Hello,  just gonna repeat the question here first " we are looking to hold a conference on mobile technologies and development and want to possibly invite someone from canonical to talk about Ubuntu Phone. Do you have any idea who should I contact"
<popey> yes, what country and when?
<popey> I'm guessing Turkey?
<ataalik> Yeah it will be in Turkey on 17-19 April
<popey> drop me an email with some more details of the event and I'll ask around on monday and see if we can find someone. - alan@canonical.com
<ataalik> Splendid, thank you Alan.
<dobey> wxl: if you want a cheap US SIM, i'd suggest t-mobile. verizon and sprint are cdma carriers, so don't have SIM cards btw
<popey> ataalik: no problem, have a good weekend.
<slvn_> popey, about the "browser". I am sure I understand your answer. I am developping apps nin C/C++. I want to open an url from my app. I would do in C code.  execlp("/usr/bin/xdg-open", "xdg-open", url, 0)   . that would be great if this could work on ubuntu smartphone/tablet
<slvn_> I am not sure..
<dobey> slvn_: there is no xdg-open on the phone
<dobey> slvn_: are you not using Qt?
<wxl> dobey: hm seems tmobile don't play with nexus 4's
<wxl> although it was using t-mobile in the uk
<dobey> wxl: what do you mean? i have t-mobile on my nexus 5 using ubuntu and it works fine
<dobey> wxl: you do need to change from ipv6 to ip on the APN though
<wxl> dobey: search for nexus 4 here http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/sim-card
<dobey> wxl: yes, it lists a few nexus 4 options
<wxl> dobey: yes but they're 4g which this isn't
<slvn_> dobey, no, not using Qt, but SDL. An Api to open an URL in a browser would be nice. It can be done in android, ios, etc.  I would be nice to have it on ubuntu phone. It would even greater if it could be "xdg-open" because on desktop, it can be done this way.
<dobey> wxl: yes it is. you just don't have the radio firmware that enables it. all nexus 4s had 4g disabled via radio firmware update long ago
<dobey> wxl: you need a fairly old radio firmware to enable 4g. kenvandine just enabled it on his the other day :)
<wxl> okie dokie
<dobey> slvn_: the official toolkit provides an api to open a link.
<dobey> meh i wish speedtest.net would drop flash
<wxl> huh cool
<wxl> virgin mobile has customs plans
<dobey> wxl: are you based in the us or the uk?
<wxl> dobey: us
<wxl> oh but you're right t-mobile *IS* better
<dobey> wxl: definitely recommend t-mo then, especially if you travel overseas much.
<wxl> pay as you go is as little as $4
<wxl> $3 that is
<dobey> well, 1GB of 4G and unlimited everything else and 3G is $50/mo. that's global data. calls when roaming are also pretty cheap
<cwayne> tmo overseas is like the greatest thing of all time
<dobey> plus t-mo has unlimited 4G for some music streaming services like spotify/grooveshark
<wxl> dobey: yeah once i hack it to work :)
<slvn_> dobey, Well I can't find this api... do you have an url ?
<kenvandine> dobey, wxl: not old... it's a hybrid lte firmware from xda
<anpok> slvn_: something like that? https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/platform/guides/url-dispatcher-guide/
<kenvandine> wxl, http://people.canonical.com/~kenvandine/mako_hybrid_104_33.zip
<dobey> slvn_: http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qdesktopservices.html#openUrl or the link anpok provided
<dobey> well it says to use the one i linked, so there :)
<kenvandine> wxl,  you also need to set OFONO_RIL_RAT_LTE in /etc/init/ofono.override
<dobey> oh right, i still need to do that
<kenvandine> dobey, my 4g is working great now!
<wxl> kenvandine: dude, you need to blog this stuff
<wxl> or if you're feeling really dangerous, put it on the wiki XD
 * wxl is ordering a sim card
<kenvandine> wxl, so in that zip file, you need to flash modem.img with fastbook
<kenvandine> fastboot  flash radio modem.img
<dobey> cwayne: oh, did tmo work in china, or you had to get a cmc or something local sim?
<kenvandine> while in the bootloader
<cwayne> worked in china
<dobey> sweet
<cwayne> dobey: ^ like a charm
<slvn_> dobey, anpok yes that's it. thanks. the only drawback is that I will now require Qt. Have "xdg-open" would have been easier for C/C++ application.
<dobey> slvn_: like i said, that is not the official toolkit. so even if it were on the device, it would not necessarily be supported
<slvn_> dobey, ok!
 * wxl didn't even realize touch supported 4g. that's pretty cool.
<kenvandine> mzanetti, ping
<kenvandine> mzanetti, i don't think i have a way to test seb128's bluetooth-key-hint-workaround branch, it's in silo 23 if you have time to give it a quick test
<simosx> Oh, my bq phone does not boot again. I tried to reboot and it appears dead (nothing is shown on screen). When connected to laptop, it shows up at 'lsusb'. Any recovery/factory reset steps?
<genii> is adb devices  or fastboot devices  showing anything?
<simosx> # adb devices
<simosx> List of devices attached
<simosx> ZZ001219	offline
<simosx> 'fastboot devices' does not show something.
<wxl> technically `fastboot devices` does nothing for me either
<wxl> simosx: did you try booting while being plugged in?
<simosx> wxl, tried booting both plugged in and unplugged. Did not work. The phone did not discharge or something; I just rebooted it.
<wxl> simosx: not having one of these, do you have a way to remove the battery?
<simosx> wxl, I think the battery cannot be removed.
<wxl> bummer
<Jsewill_> Hello all.  Does anyone know anything about when the new porting guide will be available?
<simosx> there is a tiny hole at the back, near the flash. Is that a discharge/reset button?
<wxl> Jsewill_: from what i've seen, it's in the review process and it should be out in the next few weeks or so.
<Jsewill_> Oh, that's great!
<Jsewill_> Just what I was hoping to hear.
<Jsewill_> Thanks.
<wxl> Jsewill_: this was recently discussed on the mailing list, if you're not already on it
<Jsewill_> I should do join that.
<wxl> Jsewill_: indeed
<wxl> Jsewill_: what device you thinking about?
<Jsewill_> OnePlus One, codename bacon.
<wxl> ooh fun
<Jsewill_> And whatever other devices I find myself wanting attempt to port to.
<wxl> hehehe
<simosx> is there a way to invoke the recovery on the bq?
<wxl> Jsewill_: actually looking at the message again, it looks like it will be the next few days! https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11161.html
<cwayne> simosx: i think that's a microphone not a button
<Jsewill_> AH!  Awesome.
<cwayne> simosx: I think your best option is to press + hold vol up + power for like 10 seconds to force a hard reboot
<wxl> that sounds like a good idea cwayne
<wxl> there's usually something funky like that on phones
<cwayne> er, let me double check that that's the right key combo
<wxl> well youo don't have many keys to work with! XD
<cwayne> :)
<cwayne> yeah vol up + power gets you to recovery
<simosx> cwayne, ok, the phone is back and alive 8-). It rebooted succesfully.
<cwayne> :)
<wxl> yay simosx
<cwayne> glad to help
<wxl> when in doubt, slam on all the buttons
<cwayne> lol
<simosx> it's not clear how it managed to reboot. I pressed the power button a few times, and kept pressing it, then had a look at dmesg (host computer), and the phone just came up.
<simosx> Next time will try to figure out how to bring it up.
<cwayne> generally with the bq holding the power for a long time (10 sec or so) does the trick
 * simosx just pushed to the phone a helloworld app with QtCreator. Nice.
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-14
<maclesea> hi, I have an Ubuntu Touch Nexus 4 latest updates (devel channel) - how do I get my Google contacts to sync to the phone? I have tried this, but to no avail: http://askubuntu.com/questions/360554/how-do-i-sync-google-contacts
<wxl> maclesea: how many contacts do you have?
<maclesea> 150+
<maclesea> I'm a very popular person ;-)
<wxl> that may be part of the problem
<wxl> i have a lot too and i'm having the same problem
<wxl> with -devel-proposed
<wxl> have you tried the adb solution?
<maclesea> yes - it said it could not connect to Gnome keyring...I'll need to run through it again to get you the exact error
<wxl> harumph
<wxl> i have "no such datastore"
<maclesea> I had to guess my way through some of it...the instructions are out of date
<wxl> did you try adding --keyring=no?
<maclesea> in the command where you enter "Google_Contacts" I switched that to "Google"
<maclesea> that got me past the "no such datastore" issue
<wxl> bah wow this isn't working for me either
<maclesea> yeah, it's kinda lame :-\  it's set up to sync out of the box...it just doesn't do it... I wonder if the official Ubuntu Touch phones that are being sold have the same issue...
<wxl> you should file a bug
<wxl> but meanwhile you might want to switch to the rtm channel and see
<maclesea> yeah, I'll file a bug... thanks for your time :-)
<Nikesh> Which touch devices does Ubuntu run best on?
<elimisteve> Nikesh: Canonical officially supports the Nexus 4
<elimisteve> and the new Aquaris from BQ just came out, as you've probably heard
<elimisteve> rumor has it that the Meizu MX4 -- which has much better specs than those other 2 phones -- will be on display at Mobile World Congress in about 2 weeks, running Ubuntu Touch
<Nikesh> Ahh
<Nikesh> awesome!
<elimisteve> Sounds like Ubuntu Touch runs pretty well on the Nexus 5, but I'm not sure everything works
<elimisteve> I'm currently deciding between buying a Nexus 4, and waiting at least a few months to buy the MX4 (I'm in the US)
<Nikesh> Would you use either of them with a carrier, or just as a tablet?
<elimisteve> Nikesh: I'm not expecting Ubuntu Touch to be my daily driver/main phone quite yet, so I plan to use my Nexus 5 (running Android) as a wifi hotspot that the Ubuntu Touch device connects to to get internet access
<elimisteve> that drains both batteries, but at least I'll have 4G internet on both, and use Ubuntu Touch more and more until it's the only phone I need :-)
<Nikesh> Ah, awesome
<elimisteve> I need to be able to do encrypted SMS, tethering, and a couple other things that I don't think Ubuntu Touch can do at present
<Nikesh> Btw, do you have any experience with any Android laptops? They seem interesting..
<elimisteve> I don't.  I'm on a Chromebook right now, whose SSD I replaced with a much bigger one, and threw Xubuntu on here
<elimisteve> so that's what I've done, cheap laptop-wise
<Nikesh> Ah, how do you find Xubuntu functions on it?
<elimisteve> it's great, thanks to https://www.distroshare.com/distros/get/14/
<Nikesh> I asked about Chromebooks in #ubuntu and was quickly shutdown.. one person said that it "doesn't truly run ubuntu"
<elimisteve> which customized Xubuntu to work well on the Acer C720 Chromebook
<elimisteve> well ChromeOS can't do everything I need, so I can understand not being content with that
<Nikesh> Yes, ChromeOS can't do everything I need, but the Chromebook hardware is appealing to me, for that it is very lightweight
<Nikesh> I mostly do web development with vim/node/testing in browsers, and occasionally image editing in gimp
<elimisteve> but the hardware is solid, especially for $340!  I basically have an $800 laptop for $400  http://smile.amazon.com/Acer-C720-Chromebook-11-6-Inch-4GB/dp/B00FNPD1OY/
<Nikesh> So I am looking for a device that is light, but has good performance for those tasks
<Nikesh> Thanks for the links
<elimisteve> cool. I'm a Go/Python/JS developer and use this machine for that purpose
<Nikesh> Ah awesome
<elimisteve> this one's a bit better: http://smile.amazon.com/Acer-C720-3404-11-6-Inch-Chromebook-Granite/dp/B00KOUIZBC/
<Nikesh> Ah, and you say that you upgraded the SSD?
<elimisteve> Nikesh: yup, using this guide -- http://www.androidcentral.com/how-upgrade-ssd-your-acer-c720-chromebook
<Nikesh> Thanks!
<Nikesh> What size do you have on it?
<Nikesh> So the C720 isn't ARM, then?
<elimisteve> bought the 128GB one for $65
<elimisteve> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EZ2E8NO/
<elimisteve> going from a 32GB SSD to a 128GB SSD is huge :-).  If I need more than 100GB of data stored locally, I can put it on an external drive
<elimisteve> soon I hope to run Ubuntu literally everywhere!  Desktop, laptop, servers, and soon -- smartphone
<elimisteve> I didn't buy the convergence story at all when I first heard it, but the way that people keep buying smartphones but needing bigger screens or better keyboards, it seems to be happening...
<Nikesh> hm, convergence story?
<elimisteve> yes, see many talks from Mark Shuttleworth, and http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-Convergence-Is-Working-Check-Out-Grreat-Flashback-App-Video-461548.shtml
<Nikesh> Funny, I've really wanted a Chromebook for its hardware, but I didn't want to give up Ubuntu. I'm happy you've shared all this!
<Nikesh> The RAM cannot be upgraded?
<Nikesh> Do you have a link for how to install HugeGreenBug's Xubuntu? Would you say it runs natively, or like someone in #ubuntu said, it runs on top of ChromeOS?
<elimisteve> Nikesh: RAM can't be upgraded, no; it's 4GB forever
<elimisteve> Nikesh: it absolutely does not run on top of ChromeOS
<elimisteve> it natively runs on this device
<elimisteve> ChromeOS is gone
<Nikesh> ah, good :D
<Nikesh> What's the install process? Do you have a link to a guide perhaps?
<elimisteve> looking...
<elimisteve> you must enable Legacy Boot mode, so you can install a non-ChromeOS OS  http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices/acer-c720-chromebook#TOC-Developer-Mode
<Nikesh> Do you use a flash drive to install?
<elimisteve> then I think I wrote Xubuntu to an SD card, then booted the Chromebook with that
<Nikesh> Aha
<elimisteve> the forums in https://www.distroshare.com/distros/get/14/ are VERY helpful
<elimisteve> from that DistroShare page --
<elimisteve> How to install:
<elimisteve> - Follow this guide: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/764181-how-to-install-linux-on-an-acer-c720-chromebook. It explains how to install Bodhi Linux instead of standard Ubuntu and also explains how to dual boot. Just replace the Bodhi Linux iso with the one from this site.
<elimisteve> works great, and I'm probably about to set a friend up with the same configuration
<elimisteve> it's light enough to carry around at < 3lbs, it's fast thanks to 4GB RAM and the SSD, and because Xubuntu is a light-weight OS
<elimisteve> recommended for sure!
<elimisteve> anyway, I must go for now
<Nikesh> Thanks for all the help
<elimisteve> I want the MX4, but I may just get a Nexus 4 so I can develop apps now :-D hard to wait...
<elimisteve> you bet, Nikesh
<kyoei> Can anyone get notifications from the gmail app or Dekko? Is there anyway to set a polling interval?
<elimisteve> kyoei: don't know, but I have a ton of questions like that for myself and may buy a Nexus 4 to install Ubuntu Touch onto so I can answer them all :-)
<elimisteve> kyoei: I've been told that Ubuntu Touch can be run in the emulator that comes with the ubuntu-sdk package
<kyoei> elimisteve: I have N4, with touch installed. I was running devel channel, but just changed to rtm. Seem to be getting notifications now, but still don't get push, and can't set polling interval.
<kyoei> elimisteve: Also, doesn't seem to be anyway to get notifications from dekko
<Nikesh> elimisteve: what do you think of the C720's battery life? Also, does 4GB seem to suffice for your development needs? What are your heaviest applications and how do they perform? I am trying to decide between this Chromebook and a regular laptop around the same price with a bit better performance/ram/processor, but heavier..
<kyoei> Nikesh: I have c720 running ubuntu mate. It's the old 2g version. Works great. Flashed johnlewis firmware after removing write-protect screw, then coreboot.
<kyoei> Nikesh: Battery life is 6-8 hours easy
<Nikesh> Hm, i wonder what johnlewis firmware is? coreboot?
<Nikesh> elimisteve: what about printing and scanning?
<elimisteve> Nikesh: yes I get good battery life on my C720. For some reason I got better battery life when using Bodhi Linux, and not as good on Xubuntu, but it's still good. Not sure exactly what it is
<elimisteve> Nikesh: well once you have Xubuntu installed, I mean, it's a regular, full Linux distro, so there shouldn't be any limitations there
<elimisteve> printing over the network or via USB should work fine
<elimisteve> I will say that having just 2 USB ports kinda sucks
<Nikesh> aha
<Nikesh> thanks for all the feedback
<elimisteve> sure
<Nikesh> what's the most intensive thing you use it for, and how well does it perform?
<Nikesh> I am on a tiny 1.6ghz atom/1gb ram netbook, so most anything will feel faster, but I really want to make a wise upgrade.
<elimisteve> Nikesh: the most intensive thing... having 50+ tabs open is pretty intensive
<elimisteve> running all 4 components of a distributed system, each in its own Docker container, works really well
<elimisteve> never had issues with the CPU, but for my use cases, if I have enough browser tabs open, I can run out of RAM
<elimisteve> I used a netbook for a few years before I got 2 Chromebooks, and going from 1-2GB of RAM and a 5400rpm HD to 4GB RAM and an SSD makes a world of difference
<Nikesh> sounds pretty good. i can barely have more than 4 tabs open..
<Nikesh> i have to make very conservative browser navigations
<elimisteve> but read other reviews for sure :-)
<Nikesh> Chromebooks seem to be the cheapest way to get a lightweight laptop with an SSD
<elimisteve> my co-workers have 16GB of RAM on their laptops, and that would be awesome
<elimisteve> agreed
<Nikesh> 16gb, wow
<elimisteve> portability is really important to me, but not to most people
<elimisteve> yeah, but those are like $1300 or $1600
<Nikesh> my budget is <=500 right now
<Nikesh> and yes, portability is quite important to me, too
<Nikesh> even just around my own house :)
<elimisteve> ah
<elimisteve> ha okay then, a Chromebook sounds like a good choice
<Nikesh> yeah! :D
<Nikesh> btw, do you use any mini pcs for cloud storage?
<Nikesh> maybe better to just get an external usb hdd
<elimisteve> What's the best/easiest way to run Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5? MultiROM? Is there anything can't do with the MultiROM version that I _can_ do by installing UT onto my N5 some other way?
<elimisteve> ...okay, running Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5 thanks to MultiROM
<dobby5> Moin ich hoffe einfach mal das jemand hier deutsch kann weiÃ jemand von euch ob es eine Ubuntu touch version fÃ¼r sony xperia z 2 gibt ?
<dobby5> Hello, does anyone of you whether it 's An Ubuntu Touch version for the Sony Xperia z2 ?
<svij> dobby5: it's not listed here (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices), so no.
<elimisteve> I'm getting permissions errors 'sudo apt-get update' on Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 5, running via MultiROM
<elimisteve> I've been instructed not to 'apt-get upgrade', so don't worry -- I won't do that
<elimisteve> I've even enabled developer mode
<elimisteve> and rebooted
<elimisteve> Any idea how to safely mount / as rw instead of ro
<elimisteve> ?
<elimisteve> "W: Not using lockeing for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock" is the error
<elimisteve> is mounted read-only, and /var is on the same partition as /, so that seems to be the issue
<elimisteve> nevermind, found the answer at http://askubuntu.com/a/399723/125596
<ogra_> you can use the phablet-config command from the phablet-tools package (in the equally named PPA), it has a --writable-image option
<svij> is there a working script for creating screenshots over adb for krillin? This doesn't work â http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/touch/mirfbdump
<ogra_> svij, phablet-screenshots from phablet-tools
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> phablet-screenshot ... no s
<svij> ogra_: thx
<ogra_> you want the version from the phablet-tools PPA
<ogra_> (unless you run vivid on your PC :) )
<svij> or how can I fix that the speaker symbol are present when doing it through the buttons
<ogra_> you cant ... a fix is in the works though
<svij> ah I see, so it's not my fault.
<ogra_> until then phablet-screenshott is your best option
<ogra_> no, it is unity8's fault :)
 * svij needs to find his ubuntu laptopâ¦
<popey> i have my own odd screenshot taking script
<popey> which automatically resizes the pic and then uploads to my webspace
<popey> then echo's the url so you can copy/paste it easily
<zapa_> any idea when the next ubuntu flash sale will happen? Got my yearly bonus from work!
<ogra_> zapa_, not sure, but surely soon
<zapa_> couldn
<zapa_> couldn't get it last sale! Went into a meeting 4 minutes after it started and the site kept hiding the payment details!
<zapa_> hoping things will be less stressed now! And with the bonus, I can get the E4.5 and have enough for a possible future ubuntu tablet!
<ogra_> yeah, it was totally overloaded
<ogra_> seems bq wasnt actually expecting such a run :)
<zapa_> no one was!
<zapa_> co-workers kept joking saying I'll be one of the 4 costumers!
<ogra_> haha
<zapa_> wooho, finall have Mutant Gangland running on N4 with ubuntu
<zapa_> runs like crap though
<ogra_> zapa_, well, you might need to make the framework support MIr properly
<svij> ogra_: phablet-screenshot works fine, thanks for the hint
<ogra_> or is that html5 based ?
<zapa_> yeah, lots of work before I can move the games to it.
<zapa_> ogra_: nope, C++ + SDL/GLUT depending on which host I'm using. First time "porting" something.
<ogra_> ah
<ogra_> well, Mir understands SDL2 afaik
<zapa_> yep! Was thinking of rolling my own SDL2 framework using sturmflut's github template, but it doesn't run on the device (it does deploy)
<ogra_> he is usually around in this channel during the week ... i'm sure he'll happily help
<zapa_> and since most of my game's code is in LUA, I'd just need to setup the backend for handling images
<ogra_> nice
<elimisteve> definitely a good sign that BQ wasn't ready!
<elimisteve> for all that demand, I mean
<zapa_> they sold out twice, right? Would that mean they sold a batch that was prepared for another sale?
<ogra_> might be, but they are surely able to raise the order at the factory quickly to compensate for that
<zapa_> would it take ~1 week to produce 12K phones?
<ogra_> no idea :)
<elimisteve> ...just SSH'd into my Nexus 5 running Ubuntu Touch... installed nmap, htop, and go... this is awesome!
<elimisteve> great work, everyone!
<zapa_> ^ yep! With UbuntuTouch I can finally feel like I have a real computer in my pocket
<elimisteve> seriously
<elimisteve> I had a Sharp Zaurus in 2004, which allowed me to do some cool things, but
<elimisteve> having more than 64MB of RAM, or whatever it was, enables much more :-)
<popey> heh
 * ogra_ would recommend using a chroot over making the system writable though 
<elimisteve> ogra_: why's that?
<elimisteve> security?
<ogra_> upgradeability
<elimisteve> of the OS? without losing data/packages? What do you mean?
<ogra_> if you make the system writeable you get a half working adb and a slightly broken system-image upgrade mechanism
<ogra_> err
<ogra_> s/adb/apt/
<elimisteve> apt is working so far. What's broken?
<ogra_> using a chroot you dont need to break the system-image setup and apt will fully work
<elimisteve> and what would initial the chroot?
<ogra_> you wont be able to upgrade
<elimisteve> someone in here said that 'apt-get upgrade' could brick the device
<ogra_> the readonly setup uses bind mounts into a writable partition for the writable bits
<elimisteve> I installed UT from MultiROM on a N5, if that matters
<ogra_> dpkg uses hard links when unpacking pakcage upgrades ...
<ogra_> so if an existing package is upgraded and dpkg tries to replace the binary it will fail when trying to create a hardlink across partitions
<ogra_> that means at some point your apt setup will break
<elimisteve> hmm
<ogra_> OTOH ... system-image uses diff upgrades against the readonly fs ... they get applied on toop of the install
<popey> zapa_: http://mutantgangland.com/ is your game?
<ogra_> if you change it by making it writable your changes will get reverted with the next system-image upgrade
<elimisteve> ogra_: that sounds very clean
<elimisteve> ogra_: where can I read about this specific chroot setup?
<ogra_> install deboostrap and read up about how to use it (there is tons of docs ) .... then just create a chroot in /home/phablet
<zapa_> popey: yep
<popey> nice!
<ogra_> then you can: chroot /home/phablet/mychroot ... and use apt cleanly in there
<zapa_> it's offline from buying it for a little while. Going to open it up again once I'm done with alpha 2 and some legal papers (VAT stuff changed, lots of paperwork here to take care off)
<zapa_> thinking of putting it up for free on ubuntu touch to get some traction going
<popey> that would be awesome
<popey> if you need testers on the bq devices, let us know, some of us have them ã
<zapa_> going to try and get one! You received yours already?
<zapa_> last I checked when the website was barely working it would ship to me in march
<zapa_> or arrive in march (can't remember, doh)
<popey> a few of us work for canonical
<popey> so we had the android ones flashed with ubuntu for development / qa
<popey> but yeah, i ordered one too, and ETA is march
<zapa_> agh got it! I have a N4 running ubuntu right now, but the phone is about to die (speakers are purring and the touch hates the borders.. This was happening since before I flashed it)
<zapa_> need a new phone and the BQ hit the right mark
<elimisteve> ogra_: what kinds of changes to the system should I only make in the chroot? Package installations... anything else?
<ogra_> well, everything apt realted
<elimisteve> touching anything in /usr/bin and dirs like that, too, I assume?
<popey> zapa_: well, good luck with the porting, you know where we are if you need help.
<zapa_> thanks o/
<elimisteve> not sure what the system image encompases, but that's the read-only part I don't want to change, yes? What system image updates?
<popey> ogra_: you choot on the device?
<popey> how do you do that without debootstrap?
<ogra_> popey, sure, why not
<ogra_> you could use the ubuntu-core tarball
<popey> ah
<popey> although debootstrap has near zero dependencies
<popey> all of which are on the phone
<ogra_> yes
<ogra_> you coudl just install ti as the only extra package and make the system ro again
<ogra_> snappy will make this all easier :)
<elimisteve> sudo apt-get install debootstrap
<popey> i dont want to make my phone rw
<ogra_> well, then grab the ubuntu-core tarball
<ogra_> untar ... chroot into it
<ogra_> (mount /proc, /dev and /sys (dont forget to unmount later) and just use apt)
<popey> good call
<popey> shame my sd card is vfat :)
<popey> could do it on that
<ogra_> for advanced users: use an lxc container ;)
<elimisteve> haven't made a chroot in a while
<popey> \o/ lunch
<elimisteve> thanks ogra_
<zapa_> btw, any news on canonical going forward with BQ? Would love to see the aquarius E10 tablet with ubuntu on it :D
<ogra_> geez, we have only just started ... :)
<ogra_> no plans yet, let the first thing prove itself first :)
<ogra_> (while that first flash sale was surely a success, it needs show how persistent it is ...)
<zapa_> I know :D
<zapa_> it's just the fanboy in me being excited by his OS on portable gadgets
 * zapa_ goes and draws the ubuntu logo on a piece of paper and sticks it on his altar
<elimisteve> ha
<popey> :)
<elimisteve> we don't know how many devices were actually sold during the first flash sale, do we?
<popey> public numbers haven't been given out for commercial reasons
<elimisteve> fair enough
<popey> but I think it's fair to say demand was "more than bq expected"
<elimisteve> yes
<lord4163> Is Ubuntu Phone based of legacy Ubuntu? Does it have apt-get for example?
<popey>  it is ubuntu
<popey> it has apt on it but we don't generally recommend people use it
<lord4163> popey: How does the repo look like, does it have all binary packages? so I can install let's say iperf on it?
<popey> you probably could
<popey> if it's in the archive
<popey> the phone has a fork of the archive, which doesn't have everything
<lord4163> cool
<zapa_> for a second there I was going to say "people shouldn't use apt? But how are they going to install the apps"
<lord4163> zapa_: I think popey wants us to install applications by click packages or snappy?
<zapa_> yeah but I forgot for a moment that ubuntu touch has a store :D
<lord4163> zapa_: has it?
<zapa_> yeah!
<lord4163> zapa_: unofficial one you mean?
<zapa_> nope! official app store
<zapa_> you can get scopes and apps from there
<lord4163> zapa_: I thought popey told something about an unofficial store on LUP
<popey> https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps
<popey> thats that
<popey> unofficial web frontend to our store
<popey> uses our ap
<popey> *api
<zapa_> lord4163: (via google) http://ubuntulife.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Nexus-5-App-Store.png
<zapa_> need to learn how to take a screenshot on touch
<popey> zapa_: phablet-screenshot, from the phablet-tools package from the ubuntu-sdk-team ppa
<zapa_> no way currently on the device itself?
<popey> you can
<popey> hold both vol up and vol down
<popey> but there's a bug
<popey> it captures the volume control on screen :(
<zapa_> good enough for development :D
<popey> ya
<zapa_> unless the problem occurs in that region! I can always offset the viewport a bit
<svij> where can I find the german localisation strings of the phone?
<popey> svij: for specific apps?
<svij> popey: nope, found two mistakes on the lock screen and in the settings
<svij> I only found this â https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
<popey> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings
<popey> https://translations.launchpad.net/unity8
<svij> ah
<svij> thx
<popey> http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/utopic/de is good for "what's not been translated"
<svij> I don't find the "Checking for updatesâ¦" string (system settings â updates) â¦
<svij> oh, never mind.
<ogra_> svij,could be in  ubuntu-download-manager i think
<svij> found it: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-system-settings/de/368/+translate
<svij> weird thing is, my phone just shows "Aktualisierunâ¦" instead of "Aktualisierungen werden gesucht â¦"
<ogra_> i doubt the whole line would fit anyway
<ogra_> but yeah, the text field seems to short
<svij> ok, then it's not a translation error
<ogra_> more likely an app error, yeah
<svij> but it does show "Checking for updatesâ¦" in English, which is actually longer than "Aktualisierunâ¦"
<ogra_> yeah
<svij> so the field is not too short?
<ogra_> dunno, file a bug and have someone check :)
<svij> I'm not sure where exactly I should file a bug
<ogra_> against ubuntu--system-settings
<svij> ok
<svij> done
<zapa_> is there any way to pass CMAKE some arguments from within QTCreator?
<zapa_> UbuntuSDK*
<zapa_> and found it
<ppd> hi. Anyone here on hammerhead with one of the latest vivid-proposed images? Are you able to open click apps beyond the splash screen?
<NymeriaFR> Hello guy
<NymeriaFR> Have someone a tips for use .torrent in ubuntu-touch ?
<mariogrip_> I am trying to port Ubuntu touch to OnePlus One, but i get an Kernel panic: Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! exitcode=0x00000200 (full last_kmsg: http://pastebin.com/igt0TjYw) Please help me
<ahayzen> NymeriaFR, if you are looking to do torrenting on your ubuntu-touch device, look at the app called 'DowNow'
<NymeriaFR> I would like create an app for download podcast by .torrent
<ahayzen> NymeriaFR, probably best to look at how they have done it as they have used libtorrent https://code.launchpad.net/downow
<NymeriaFR> I search on ubuntu store
<NymeriaFR> there is now app for 'downow'
<NymeriaFR> I'm looking source code
<NymeriaFR> it seems use docker
<NymeriaFr> Hello guys
<NymeriaFr> If I use docker for one of my application, is install docker image each time I lunch the application or just once ?
#ubuntu-touch 2015-02-15
<Rah8r> hi. does anyone know if its possible to run linux and android in dual boot mode if the "full" encryption/android is active?
<nhaines> Rah8r: I know that it's not possible.
<Rah8r> uhh too bad, thx
<Rah8r> i have an nexus tablet with usb host functionality, might this be an option?
<Rah8r>  to leave the encrypted android installtion untouched
<JohnBoyZear> evening everyone... wondering which channel to use for the "tablet" version for a flo device (nexus 7 2013).  Any idea?
<JohnBoyZear> channel devel only gets me the phone version, which works fantastic, but I'm after the tablet interface
<acigos> hi
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/ubuntu nice tweet for you devs :p
<uhhimhere> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9sIt8hAF4&feature=youtu.be
<lotuspsychje> uhhimhere: sailfishOs is android based?
<Stskeeps> no, glibc-based, uses android drivers in comparable fashion like ubuntu does it (some minor technical differences)
<uhhimhere> lotuspsychje, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS
<uhhimhere> Sailfish is a mobile operating system (OS) combining the Linux kernel, the Mer core and proprietary software written by mobile software developer Jolla.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<Stskeeps> probably a bit off topic here though
<uhhimhere> lotuspsychje, Sailfish OS can be used on any hardware with a Linux kernel supported by the Mer core distribution
<lotuspsychje> its a good thing to know whats going on in the world :p
<uhhimhere> yup
<lotuspsychje> uhhimhere: i read an article about ubuntu snappy on raspberry
<uhhimhere> cant really find an in depth review of the ubuntu e4.5
<uhhimhere> why is that
<Rubesman> are there ready to use packages of ubuntu sdk scopescreator and so on for not debian based distros?
<rootcube315> hello
<rootcube315>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER rootcube315 orycwnktjkzy
<rootcube315> aw damn sorry wrong send, fingers are toofast
<ogra_> time for a new password :)
<rootcube315> yeah
<NymeriaFR> Hi guys
<NymeriaFR> I have a little question for you
<rootcube315> check
<NymeriaFR> If I use docker in my application
<NymeriaFR> is docker will install dependence each time I start an application or only once ?
<ogra_> you want to use docker on your phone ?
<rootcube315> how much space does ubuntu touch needs so i can put in my alcatel one touch
<ogra_> rootcube315, you will have to port it ... it should get along with ~2G
<ogra_> (but it will likely not get along with the other specs on the alcatel one ...)
<rootcube315> ogra_, i'd like to try if this is working
<NymeriaFR> ogra_, yes I want use it
<ogra_> it will likely be as choppy as firefoxOS is on it
<rootcube315> ogra_, i'd rather not
<NymeriaFR> I want use torrent in my application, I have watch "downow" source code
<NymeriaFR> and it use docker for install libtorrent
<edakiri> uhhimhere: what is the best review you found so far?
<rootcube315> maybe i'll wait a little longer on meizu to ship it here in my place
<ogra_> NymeriaFR, then you need to ship docker inside yur click package
<ogra_> and configure it in a way that it can work under the confinement constraints a click package has
<NymeriaFR> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nogzatalz/downow/trunk/files/head:/docker/
<NymeriaFR> If this application is installed and I use the same docker file
<NymeriaFR> is the libtorrent will be shared between applications ?
 * ogra_ has not much clue about docker 
<ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement is something yu might want to read though
<edakiri> How do you run Ubuntu Touch on a PC for testing, exploration, & development?
<edakiri> I would have Linux as the host OS.
<rootcube315> i think you need an emulator
<rootcube315> genymotion?
<ogra_> you use the ubuntu-emulator :)
<NymeriaFR> In QtCreate
<NymeriaFR> When you install ubuntu-sdk ppa
<ogra_> http://davidplanella.org/ubuntu-emulator-quickstart-guide/
<rootcube315> ah ogra_ is right ubuntu-emulation
<NymeriaFR> you have qtCreate who take care about that
<mariogrip_> Where can i find the /ubuntu-root/script/touch file on the device?
<jeepingben> I see that there is a deprecated porting guide and a pending porting guide.  Is the information in the deprecated guide now incorrect?
<jeepingben> There is a blizzard where I am today and porting to find7a might be a good indoor project.
<jeepingben> I have a working cyanogenmod build environment which sounds like it is a major part of porting.
<pngo_> is there a way to mount usb stick?
<ogra_> on your phone ?
<SturmFlut> popey: Have you already tried https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/app/kirino.hyuchia ? Looks like we're getting our own Siri/Cortana already ;)
<popey> i haven't
<popey> saw it hit the store but didnt know what it was
<SturmFlut> popey: Looks like a simple chat bot which has some integration with online services
<pngo_> ogra_, yes
<ogra_> pngo_, well, a) you would need an OTG cable ... b) you would need USB-OTG support in your kernel ...
<ogra_> b) isnt enabled by default in the ubuntu phone kernel config i think
<ogra_> since that clashes with adb/mtp/android_gadget
<Stskeeps> hrm? doesn't on intel chips
<meretrix> I want to buy a 10" tablet on which to run Ubuntu.  Is the Nexus 10 the only one currently worth considering (i.e., hardware supported and actively developed)?
<ogra_> Stskeeps, yeah, indeed
<ogra_> on the phones we support it is that way though ... no intel in there yet :)
<Stskeeps> yeah.. usb on mobile devices, crazy stuff
<ogra_> yep
 * ogra_ wonders if the jolla browser is capable of WebRTC 
<ogra_> seems the ubuntu one isnt yet :/
<Stskeeps> ogra_: i think our engine may be a little behind, we do webgl at least but webrtc is rather new
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ just pushed a webrtc server package to the store ... for snappy ... would be cool to have an accomaning .click with a phone app :) 
<Wuerfel95> Hello
<popey> yo
<Wuerfel95> Will there come an Ubuntu touch version for the OnePlus One?
<popey> If someone ports it, sure.
<popey> !devices | Wuerfel95
<ubot5> Wuerfel95: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<popey> thats got an (outdated) list of supported devices
<Elleo> ogra_: from my tests webrtc stuff half works with oxide; you can setup communication and receive video and audio, but the stuff for sending data from cameras/microphones/etc. isn't hooked up yet I think
<ogra_> yeah, that is how it looks like
<ogra_> well, i can wait :)
<popey> more hugs for Elleo for podbird. It's my go-to podcast client now. It was the last thing I still used my iPhone for.
<ogra_> i assume that needs also security-policy and platform-api integration first in the browser
<Elleo> popey: cool :)
<fredflegel> hello! i am an ubuntu user very interested in ubuntu touch! currently i am trying it out in an emulator.
<fredflegel> what i am missing already is a way to sync contacts with carddav and an calendar
<fredflegel> are they only missing in the emulator? if so, how to try the "real" ubuntu phone?
<tabbytabtab> Isn't the calendar in the software store?
<fredflegel> @tabbytabtab yes it is, thanks. because it is possible to set the system language to german, i searched in german with zero results.
<fredflegel> but regarding caldav/carddav: there is currently no possiblilty to sync using the ui
<fredflegel> ?
<tabbytabtab> I'm not quite sure on those two things, sorry.
<fredflegel> do you have an ubuntu-touch device yourself?
<tabbytabtab> Yes, but I currently don't have it installed because i wanted to install it as my main OS instead of a dual boot with android.
<tabbytabtab> Nexus 7 (2013) specifically
<fredflegel> interesting. i noticed i might even be in the wrong channel. are -phone and -touch seperate project/products?
<tabbytabtab> I think you're in the correct channel. I could be wrong, though.
<taiebot> Does anyone know a command line to clear the notification. My led is flashing continuously and a reboot to clear a notification is a little bit too much
<popey> taiebot: you can echo a 0 somewhere down in /sys :)
<popey> (which works)
<taiebot> popey: still flashing here
<taiebot> (vivid r100)
<SturmFlut> Are there any plans for a Printing API? How does a confined app talk to a printer?
<^jaxx^> Anyone know how I can tweak the scroll sensitivity?
<nhaines> SturmFlut: I was just thinking abotu printing APIs.  :)  But that doesn't count as plans!
<SturmFlut> nhaines: If Ubuntu Touch had a proper printing service, say CUPS with lots of shipped drivers, that would be an extreme advantage over Android.
<nhaines> SturmFlut: not sure about that.  Android already has a proper printing service with lots of shipped drivers.
<nhaines> I actually printed a royalty report I got on email through my phone before I'd turned off my computer.  Since the royalty was on an Ubuntu book, it made me think "hmm, Ubuntu on my phone should be able to do this."  :)
<SturmFlut> nhaines: I wouldn't call Google Cloud print a "proper" service
<SturmFlut> What if I am without an Internet connection and just want to connect my old USB printer via USB-to-go? That should be possible. Or printing to any network printer on the local network.
<SturmFlut> A proper printing service should allow any use case that is currently possible with a desktop computer, just with a phone or tablet
<nhaines> SturmFlut: Donno.  I printed directly to my HP printer without using Google Cloud Print.
<nhaines> Like I said, I did it directly from my phone without my computer turned on.
<SturmFlut> nhaines: Using HP ePrint?
<nhaines> No, HP Print Service Plugin.
<nhaines> It integrates into the Android printing service.
<nhaines> (I have used ePrint in the past.  Almost as convenient.)
<SturmFlut> nhaines: Yeah, the problem is that not every printer manufacturer provides a plug-in and those who do just support a limited number of models. This is very far from what CUPS can do.
<SturmFlut> nhaines: ...and a lot of those vendor plug-ins send your documents to their servers for conversion.
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-15
<zzarr> hello! I'm trying to understand how to make a patch for a kernel in order to make it compatible with Ubuntu Touch, it's a Chromebook kernel for the ASUS Chromebook Flip
<mac-> what are minimal hardware rewuirements for porting ?
<mac-> win15
<mac-> hm
<mac-> as I guess port for Nexus 4 is fully functional ?
<mac-> and up to date ?
<mac-> what about Nexus 5 ?
<abeato> ogra_, hey
<abeato> ogra_, I'm seeing an issue in touch where some devices are seen in ubuntu rootfs but not in the android container
<abeato> ogra_, how it the container configured in regard to device node creation?
<ogra_> abeato, the udev equivalent of android creates /dev on container startup ... both /dev trees need to be distinct else you cause chaos
<abeato> ogra_, in this case some times the devices are seen in the container, and some times they are not... they are always see in ubuntu rootfs... that's what is puzzling me
<abeato> yep, I see they can't be excatly the same
<ogra_> sounds like there is a race then
<abeato> yep :)
<ogra_> the container should not move on until all devices are created
<ogra_> iirc rsalveti once wrote a patch for that
<ogra_> perhaps that needs updating
<abeato> these devices are created by a process launched in android
<abeato> so they do not exist before the conatiner starts
<ogra_> right
<ogra_> that is why we need that waiting loop in the rild upstart job
<abeato> ogra_, the problem is *inside* the container... there is a process that android starts that loads fw, and the device driver creates the device... which is seen in ubuntu but not always in the container
<ogra_> what device is that ? you could make init.rc create a socket and check that from the ubuntu side
<ogra_> (or just a flag file, doesnt need to be a socket)
<abeato>  /dev/stpwmt, related to wifi in frieza
<ogra_> abeato, the udev equivalent in android is ueventd btw
<ogra_> the container should not emit the android event until that has created all devices
<ogra_> but if you say wifi, did you make sure that nothing touched the device on the ubuntu side ? if both os-es try to load the firmware there will be bad things happening
<ogra_> *touches
<abeato> ogra_, no, I don't think that happens, fw loading is triggered from a process in the android side
<abeato> taking a look at ueventd now...
<ogra_> good ...
<_Sponge> Hello & good morning #ubuntu-touch
<popey> yo
<_Sponge> popey, I slept funny #sore-shoulder
<popey> me too!
 * _Sponge is looking for a 'trust box' off febay for the Office Kitchen - no luck so far :(
<ogra_> jibel, davmor2, i had unity8 die on me at least once a day (three times yesterday actually) since friday on rc-proposed on the MX4
<ogra_> did you see anything similar ?
<davmor2> ogra_: no but then my dogfood device in on stable not rc-proposed
<ogra_> ah
<jibel> ogra_, I didn't see that, but didn't use my phone much this week end
<ogra_> only happens after a few hours, but then completely out of the blue
<jibel> ogra_, it's the build with the new mir to fix bug 1532607
<ubot5`> bug 1532607 in Mir "Phone not usable while a call comes in - followed by "restart"" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532607
<ogra_> well, whatever is latest in rc-proposed
<ogra_> i usually update immediately if i get the notification
<jibel> ogra_, yeah, I'm just confirming that Friday's build contains the new mir
<jibel> ogra_, can you file a bug and attach unity8 and unity-system-compositor log files?
<jibel> ogra_, ~/.cache/phablet/unity8.log and /var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log when it happened
<ogra_> i'll try to find the time during the day, yeah
<mac-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGbRnfqSss
<ogra_> yeah, last year ....
<mac-> oh right
<mac-> I'm still not familiar with 2016 :p
<ogra_> :)
<mac-> what about Facebook client, it is some native or just web version ?
<ogra_> just web (yet)
<mac-> same as it was on FirefoxOS
<mac-> any good jabber client with OTR support ?
 * ogra_ doesnt use jabber, so i dont know
<mac-> k
<popey> don't think so
<_Sponge> popey, We can do gif's on ubuntu-touch , is that right ?
<popey> dunno what you mean by "do gifs"
<_Sponge> Well, we have a radar map .. Note this isn't the *actual* Dutch website that I'm looking for.
<_Sponge> http://www.weathercast.co.uk/radar/netherlands.html
<_Sponge> we have a github page by an Ubuntu Loco team member ...
<_Sponge> https://github.com/OerHeks
<ogra_> _Sponge, it will definitely work inside a webview ... not sure if animated gifs work in QML though
<ogra_> (never tried)
<_Sponge> ok , I shall make a note on it.
<mariogrip> mhall119: ping
<_Sponge> Afternoon mariogrip
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Hi
 * _Sponge is looking for community board rooms on AirBnB.
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Anymore thoughts on jingo for wiki.ubports.com
<_Sponge> ^ ?
<popey> mariogrip: public holiday in the US today, m hall119 might not be about
<mariogrip> popey: Oh, ok
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Jup http://wiki2.ubports.com/wiki/Home
<_Sponge> mariogrip: That's terriffico, well done !
<mhall119> mariogrip: pong
 * mhall119 still hasn't figured out this whole "holiday" thing
<_Sponge> nice you could give some undivided attention to mariogrip on this holiday day :)
<mariogrip> mhall119: Oh, hey! Have you tried update? (saw there was 2 new versions)
<mhall119> mariogrip: not yet, sat down this morning and realized my FP2 battery was drained again, so it's charging up now
<mhall119> also, 2 new versions? I was already on rev 6, and I only see up to rev 7 on http://system-image.ubports.com/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/FP2/
<mariogrip> mhall119: I see v8
<mhall119> oh, ha, there is it, just had to refresh :)
<mariogrip> mhall119: :)
 * popey hands mhall119 a morning coffee
 * mhall119 is already nearly done with his first cup
<mariogrip> btw, if you need network: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AdbNetworking
<mhall119> I've been sick all weekend, actually drank tea *hot*
<mariogrip> mhall119: Thats not good, hope you are better now!
<mhall119> getting there, it was just a cold
<mhall119> it's the only time I ever drink hot tea though, is when I'm sick
<_Sponge> Good option: Cod Liver Oil for aches & pains, Vitamin.c for antibodies etc  |Oh and the winter flu jab.
<mariogrip> I always hot milk and honey when i'm sick
<mariogrip> drink*
<_Sponge> honey is more preventative than anything else
 * mhall119 has so much honey
<ganzeinfach> hey
<ganzeinfach> Does anyone have an idea, which ubntu I can install on a del latitude ST Tab 10.1? 12.04 Precise doesnÂ´t work for me, cause keyboard is freezing on the beginning.
<ganzeinfach> wubi is not working. If I go in livemode in ubuntu, the liveos restart after my choice to install 12.04
<ganzeinfach> hmm :/
<mariogrip> ganzeinfach: Is it the desktop version you are trying to install?
<k1l_> 12.04 and wubi? that doesnt sound right.
<ganzeinfach> yeah, I think so. Cant get the touchversion of 12.04 I think. IÂ´ve got ubuntu-12.04.5-dvd-i386
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: why 12.04?
<ogra_> 12.04 in general doesnt sound right, given it will go EOL in about 12 months
<ganzeinfach> because it have LTS
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: so does 14.04
<ogra_> like 14.04 :)
<ganzeinfach> and it works well on a desktop
<ganzeinfach> and there is an tutorial for 12.04alpha2
<ganzeinfach> 14.04 sux :)
<ogra_> in any case, if you are using the desktop version this is probably the wrong channel ... this is all about the phone/tablet OS based on unity8
<ganzeinfach> you missunderstood
<ogra_> for touchscreen probs i'd go to #ubuntu-x ... for general installation support to #ubuntu
<ganzeinfach> i want a touch version
<ganzeinfach> but there is no download anymore. only for 16.04 touch
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: the 12.04 desktops are not really touch desktops.
<ganzeinfach> yeah, but do you can find a link to 12.04 touch?
<ganzeinfach> I donÂ´t
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: because ubuntu is making a new unity desktop which fits for touch on smartphones/tablets and  desktop on the same time
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: there is no ubuntu-touch unity on 12.04
<ganzeinfach> i dont like unity. i like xfce or xubuntu
<ogra_> well, there are a few touch features in the 12.04 unity
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: if you mean "touch hardware support". that is a not what ubuntu-touch is about
<ogra_> (the desktop version)
<ogra_> right, as i said, for touch hardware issues go to #ubuntu-x
<ganzeinfach> yeah but if i cant get the touchversion I have to change the desktopversion to touch with extra drivers, but i cant still get a 12.04 touch iso
<ganzeinfach> ok ogra
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: there is no special touch version for the "old" desktops
<ganzeinfach> but there was an 12.04alpha2, where is it now?
<ogra_> alphas are wiped once the system gets released
<ganzeinfach> it have tourchthings on it
<k1l_> the touch hardware support is like nvidia video support. we dont make special nvidia desktop isos too. its just build in :)
<ogra_> they are test images before release
<ganzeinfach> its intel
<ogra_> doesnt matter +
<ogra_> we dont use (or know much about) the "normal" ubuntu in this channel
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: my point is: you want a regular desktop iso. touch hardware support is build into the regular isos already.
<ogra_> it is all about the new ubuntu for phones/tablets ... which is largely different from the isos you know
<ogra_> go to #ubuntu-x or #ubuntu
<ganzeinfach> I have a touchtab and I will a touch buntu old
<ogra_> there is no such thing
<ganzeinfach> okay :(
<ogra_> there is the desktop image that has some touch features ... which seems to be what you want
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: there is no seperation into touch and not touch ubuntus for desktop
<ogra_> and for which you need to consult another channel
<ganzeinfach> Note: You need Ubuntu 12.04, because the Psb_gfx drivers are already integrated in this version.
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: doesnt say its removed after 12.04 :)
<ganzeinfach> http://www.mogilowski.net/lang/en-us/2012/02/15/install-ubuntu-on-dell-latitude-st-tablet/
<ganzeinfach> I dont wonÂ´t 14.04 on my tab, because 12.04 is the most stable OS I know
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: look at the date. he links the alpha since 12.04 is in alpha state when he wrote that blog
<ganzeinfach> yeah
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: then just us a regular 12.04 iso.
<ganzeinfach> but the regular will not install on my SSD Tab
<ganzeinfach> It tell me the Installer and after it crashes. The error was something with ubiquitti
<ganzeinfach> and keyboard is freezing
<ganzeinfach> cant choose between language and cant switch between ubuntu live and ubuntu install
<ogra_> right, try #ubuntu
<ganzeinfach> ok
<ogra_> (totally out of scope of this channel)
<ganzeinfach> #ubuntu
<ogra_> /join #ubuntu
<ogra_> ;)
<_Sponge> mhall119:  Is it #PresidentDay today ?
<_Sponge> **PresidentsDay
<mhall119> yes
<_Sponge> mhall119: just noticed 'cos it's trending on twitter.
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Still not happening. http://wiki2.ubports.com/auth/done
<mariogrip> _Sponge: with github?
<_Sponge> Maybe it's my ghostery thingy ... possibly uBlock dunno.
<mariogrip> _Sponge: humm, I get error to... letme debug this
<_Sponge> Ok, good luck : http://postimg.org/image/iqzuj7x9t/
<Elleo> greyback: hey, thanks for working on the gyroscope stuff! When that lands I can finish off my ubuntu cardboard VR demo \o/
<greyback> Elleo: heh, we had similar projects in mind :)
<Elleo> greyback: cool
<Arctic> Hey guys
<Arctic> My Nexus 5 is stuck on the ubuntu boot screen  on both devel and devel-proposed
<Arctic> any ideas of what might be wrong?  greyback Elleo _Sponge?
<Arctic> I'm using multirom with CM13
<Arctic> ran fine on my N7.  Thinking it might be leftover files but there shouldn't be any?
<_Sponge> Does anyone have the github page for the MultiRom repo ?
<Arctic> _Sponge: https://github.com/Tasssadar/multirom
<Arctic> https://tasssadar.github.io/
<_Sponge> thought so, cheers.
<Arctic> they've updated it recently for cm13 and 6.0 devices so finally my nexus devices work with it on marshmallow
<Elleo> Arctic: I'm not really familiar with the nexus 5 port or with multirom I'm afraid, so can't really help
<greyback> Arctic: if you can "adb shell" in, perhaps some log files might explain.
<Arctic> greyback: how would one do that?
<Arctic> just when it's on the bootloader type that in terminal (have adb installed)
<ogra_> Arctic, devel isnt expected to work at all ... you want rc-proposed
<_Sponge> Arctic: Be good if you could raise an issue : https://github.com/Tasssadar/MultiROMMgr/issues
<Arctic> _Sponge: not sure if it's an issue with multirom
<Arctic> since it boots to the ubuntu screen
<greyback> Arctic: after boot, while you say it has hung. It may be the UI has not come up, but everything else is ok
<Arctic> greyback: yeah it seems to dim the screen
<Arctic> it's odd
<ogra_> not for devel, no
<ogra_> it can break at any time, and gets not much QA attention
<Arctic> ogra_: huh?
<ogra_> rc-proposed is the development channel
<Arctic> ok ill try that
<Arctic> orgI don't have an rc-proposed
<ogra_> devel is just the 16.04 image which hanst much developer focus currently ... its only a thing where code gets dumped in in parallel if it hits rc-proposed
<Arctic> I have ubuntu-rtm/14.09
<Arctic> ubuntu-rtm/14.09-proposed
<Arctic> devel-proposed/ubuntu
<Arctic> devel-proposed
<Arctic> utopic
<Arctic> utopic-proposed
<Arctic> vivid
<ogra_> 14.09 is obsolete
<Arctic> vivid-proposed
<Arctic> ogra_: I know that.....
<Arctic> which one?
<ogra_> heh, no idea ... looks like the server doesnt actually have rc-proposed ...
<ogra_> no idea if tassadar renamed it
<Arctic> ogra_: vivid and utopic are both outdated too
<ogra_> i know dobey uses an N5 ... perhaps he can point you to the right channel name
<Arctic> ;(
<Arctic> I got charged 2p for IOPS from AWS
<Arctic> dammit
<Arctic> must have been before I switched to HDDs?
<ogra_> i see the N5 on https://devices.ubports.com/ .... but that seems to only be the stable channel
<Arctic> ogra_: who has a N5?
<Arctic> will have to reach out to them and ask about it I guess
<ogra_> i know dobey and nhaines do in this channel
<mhall119> mariogrip: ok, trying u-d-f to get rev8
<Arctic> ayy I was talking to nhaines last week ogra_
<Arctic> Oh yeah that reminds me I meant to submit pictures to the desktop wallpaper thing
<Arctic> Leaving my calander open in a pinned tab is super useful.  Just hop over and add deadlines and such
<Arctic> interviews, deadlines, plans :)
<Arctic> notifications on devices and via email.  I'm liking digital calanders
<mhall119> mariogrip: well, it appeared to be flashing rev 8, but it still says it's on rev 6
<mariogrip> ogra_: N5 is for rc and devel too http://system-image.ubports.com/ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/hammerhead/
<mariogrip> mhall119: Did you flash it from recovery?
<mhall119> yup
<mhall119> no errors or anything from u-d-f, it rebooted to the Ubuntu upgrade splash screen, then rebooted back into Unity 8
<mariogrip> can you check (from recovery) /cache/system-image-upgrader.log
<mhall119> ~ # cat /cache/system-image-upgrader.log
<mhall119> Starting image Upgrade pre
<mhall119> Processing the command file
<mhall119> that's all there was in that file
<tathhu> mariogrip, what about n7 lte? :P (deb)
<mhall119> tathhu: one device at a time, I've already claimed him for the Fairphone 2 ;)
<tathhu> damn :D
<popey> the wishlist is getting longer... FP2, OPO, OP2, OPX, DEB...
<mariogrip> mhall119: Humm, maybe when you installed it, it installed the old recovery
<mariogrip> from the system-server
<mhall119> mariogrip: it does show Ubports Recovery again, instead of Cyanogen Recovery
<mariogrip> mhall119: try install the recovery again https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56653875/ubuntu/fp2/recovery.img
<mariogrip> popey: I get so many request on email for n6 and n5x
<mariogrip> so, the list is pretty long
<popey> send them a paypal link in reply ã
<tathhu> Well, it's hard for me to see anything on N7 when it's "docked" on kbd so I'm waiting for M10 :D
<mariogrip> popey: haha yeah :P
<ogra_> popey, dont forget galaxy S7
<popey> Wish there were more people who could help you mariogrip
<mariogrip> popey: Yeah, I wish that too
<mariogrip> ogra_: does samsung devices use fastboot?
<ogra_> their own bastardized variant iirc
<ogra_> accessible through some tool named after nordic gods ...odin, heimdal ?
<mhall119> mariogrip: reflashed the recovery, still says Ubports Recovery, trying u-d-f again now
<mariogrip> ogra_: lol, heimdal is not far from where i live...
<mariogrip> mhall119: Yeah, I fixed the image
<mariogrip> (also heimdal is a place in norway)
<ogra_> :)
<mhall119> mariogrip: worked! I'm no rev 8
<mhall119> I'm *on* rev 8
<mariogrip> mhall119: :)
<mhall119> so, what's new from rev 6?
<mhall119> mariogrip: rev8 doesn't have the fixed adbd, does it
<sdk> What channel should I choose if I want the latest version of Ubuntu Touch (OTA-9) on my Nexus 4?
<mariogrip> mhall119: it has some kernel improvements
<mariogrip> mhall119: if you need adb http://people.ubuntu.com/~mariogrip/Ubuntu-touch/fp2/
<mhall119> mariogrip: I still have those from last time, just ran it
<ogra_> sdk, stable
<sdk> ogra_: thanks :)
<mhall119> kgunn: ogra_: either of you know of a command-line way to wake the screen if it turns off and the power button isn't working?
<ogra_> there is a powerd-cli call you can use iirc
<ogra_> but i dont remember the syntax
<mariogrip> mhall119: That would not work, the power button seem to work, but it's something that seems to crash
<mhall119> ah, nvm then ogra_ :)
<mariogrip> mhall119: the weird thing is that you cannot restart mir after it has been started
<mhall119> mariogrip: yeah, "powerd-cli listen" shows that powerd gets the button press event, and knows the state (on/off)
<mariogrip> also, you can restart it, but the screen is black after restart
<ogra_> mhall119, i think davmor2 uses the commaand regulary
<davmor2> meh
<mariogrip> mhall119: Is /firmware/image mounted?
<davmor2> ogra_, mhall119: I just use it to keep the screen on while I get a gps reading :)
<kgunn> mhall119: i do powerd-cli display on bright
<mhall119> mariogrip: rebooting now, will let you know
<mhall119> kgunn: running that gives: ** (process:2338): WARNING **: requestDisplayState failed: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name com.canonical.Unity.Screen was not provided by any .service files
<mhall119> failed display request
<mhall119> mariogrip: doesn't look like it
<mhall119> mariogrip: also, now the screen turns off even while I'm touching it to keep it awake :(
<mariogrip> mhall119: The screen bug it weird, ubp-5.1 works perfectly on the opo (I have even made a phone call, popey :)
<mhall119> before it would stay on as long as I was touching it, but not anymore
<popey> awwww
<popey> you're teasing me
<mariogrip> popey: I would release it, but I has a bad issue that it get really hot so i need to await it
<popey> good call
<mhall119> mariogrip: ah, got it to boot this time by touching it every 4-5 seconds,rather than constantly, so maybe the constant input was causing a crash
<mariogrip> mhall119: humm, I need to get in contact with the mir team again, there is some bad issues going on here
<mhall119> mariogrip: /firmware is a symlink to /android/firmware, which isn't mounted and isn't in fstab, can I mount it manually?
<mariogrip> mhall119: I guess you can mount /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs/dev/block/platform/msm_sdcc.1/by-name/modem
<mhall119> to /android/firmware?
<mariogrip> mhall119: Im not sure if that would work, haven't tested that on ut
<mariogrip> yeah
<mhall119> mount: special device /var/lib/lxc/android/rootfs/dev/block/platform/msm_sdcc.1/by-name/modem does not exist
<mariogrip> oh, then that needs to be mounted with fstab
<mhall119> yeah, that's not in fstab either
<maszlo> i really want to test this operating system.  having a hard time justifying getting a phone that doesnt go beyond 2G speeds(TmobUS) would there be anything i would be missing if i got a 2013 nexus 7?
<ogra_> maszlo, the nexus 4 should work rather well on US bands
<ogra_> (and the N7 2013 (flo) is a supported device)
<tathhu> (not that lte (deb) one.. :P)
<tathhu> #saltytathhu
<ogra_> well, the deb is community supported .,.. not all bits work (bluetooth doesnt i think)
<maszlo> yeah stuff like hardware not working is what i was looking for issues with N7
<maszlo> the N4 is just so old, always had poor camera.
<mariogrip> _Sponge: I don't know why github wont work, but i added google that seems to be working
<maszlo> guess an emulator might be my best efforts until something else is released.
<ogra_> used N4's are cheap though
<mariogrip> mhall119: that need to be fixed on android side
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Ok, that'll do it. Thanks for talking to me 'bout it.
<maszlo> true, N4 are cheap. but just like getting a current day one on 2G being painful so might a not so cutting edge device from 4 years ago (N4)
<k1l_> the n4 is still a good device. it was a highclass device back than. and the n5 is not that far away performancewise.
<ganzeinfach> Is there anyone running who running any ubuntu in a dell latitude ST Tablet 10.1"
<ogra_> yeah, i heard it is faster then the MX4
<ogra_> (i can live with a slightly slower device though ... getting *that* display and the camera is worth a little suffering :P )
<ogra_> (though i have seen many people go back to their aquaris 4.5 recently ... just because it is so much less painful to use
<maszlo> ogra_: because of compatibility or controls?
<ogra_> maszlo, the bezen is to slim so the side gestures get lost at times ... the graphics driver is junk (like all SGX drivers) so you have some lag
<ogra_> *bezel
<ogra_> there is also a slight sharp edge on the frame that makes using the side gestures unpleasant
<ogra_> ... and dont get me started about the "home button" :P
<OerHeks> ganzeinfach, if i read this > http://www.linlap.com/dell_latitude_st_tablet  + GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=âpoulsbo.blacklist=yes console=tty1 sdhci.debug_quirks=4â³  .. poulsbo, i get the shivers.
<OerHeks> poulsbo = gma500, obsolete since 11.04 i think
 * k1l_ wonders what ubuntu-touch on a samsung galaxy edge would be like
<ogra_> OerHeks, you mean beyond tha fact that this is off-topic here ?
<ogra_> k1l_, yeah
<OerHeks> ogra_, not sure, it is a tablet/touch, but 32 bit
<ogra_> k1l_, the meizu 5 pro seems to have a slightly rounded edge by what i read
<ogra_> OerHeks, this really isnt the channel for desktop install support though
<ogra_> OerHeks, in general touch related suff for this goes to #ubuntu-x nowadays
<OerHeks> ogra_, thanks, didn know that one. ganzeinfach join #ubuntu-x
<maszlo> is the Aquaris M10 something that is just being field tested to see if they should run a production of them, or setup distribution to different markets? info on them is minimal
<ogra_> maszlo, no, it will go into production
<ogra_> and should be available world wide
<ganzeinfach> OerHeks I was on the same websites, but its not possible to install this way, maybe its the Bios-Update from Dell. So I cant use the keyboard from the beginning and I was using 12.04 after using 12.04.5 and it was masspixelterror in the installprocess..
<ogra_> but it has no modem
<ganzeinfach> how often i should join any channel? I have open now ubuntu-touch, ubuntu, ubuntu+1
<maszlo> yeah, one way about not feeling bad my phone is stuck at 2G speeds is not have any modem lol
<ganzeinfach> and now ubuntu-x?
<k1l_> i wonder if studio already bought a m10 :X
<ogra_> ganzeinfach, well, you dont need to be here unless you have questions about unity8 based systems, which this channel is for
<mcphail> ganzeinfach: you probably don't want to know how many channels I have open... ;)
<mariogrip> The m10 is amazing, me want convergence :)
<ogra_> mariogrip, +1
<ganzeinfach> :)
<ogra_> k1l_, lol
<ogra_> k1l_, he hasnt shown up yet ... so i guess he ran out of money
<ganzeinfach> ogra I am interested to get it working and if there is only the unity way, than I will use the unity..
<k1l_> ganzeinfach: i dont think you will meet anyone running that 2011 tablet with ubuntu today. your best bet is to see for people who had this running and ask there.
<ganzeinfach> true
<mhall119> popey: mariogrip: I can't manually install the terminal app on the FP2, any ideas why? I get:
<mhall119> Cannot install /home/phablet/Downloads/com.ubuntu.terminal_0.7.170_multi.click: Signature verification error: debsig: Failed verification for /home/phablet/Downloads/com.ubuntu.terminal_0.7.170_multi.click
<mhall119> even using --allow-unauthenticated
<mariogrip> mhall119: probably apparmor
<ganzeinfach> but where to find them. Noone use Dell Latitude ST and if search on Youtube, there is no ubuntu on that tab as a tutorial
<k1l_> ogra_: i just saw him on android-hilfe forums ranting against bq not providing new kernels for android.
<mhall119> I can install uReadIt's click package
<mariogrip> mhall119: oh, then I don't know,  --allow-unauthenticated should work
<popey> mhall119: it's  --allow-untrusted
<popey> not --allow-unauthenticated
<mariogrip> oh
<ganzeinfach> Well in normal Bios process the keyboard is working, but if I am loading the USB-Device with Ubuntu, it will let me not give a choice with my kb. Thats strange..
<popey> mhall119: you're using pkcon, right? not click
<mhall119> popey: right
<popey> ok, good
<mhall119> and yes, I used --allow-untrusted
<popey> allow-untrusted then
<mhall119> popey: I think the problem may be that the package is signed, but it can't verify the signature
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1360582
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1360582 in PackageKit "Can't manually install clicks "Signature verification error" since #205" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ogra_> heh, that bug will probably never get fixed
<ogra_> (we might switch to snaps before ... )
<popey> well, that bug is about desktop
<popey> mhall119 isn't on desktop (I assume)
<ogra_> (in which case --allow-unauthenticated is the right term then)
<mhall119> ogra_: it was fixed by adding --allow-untrusted wasn't it?
<ogra_> ah, yeah
<popey> add both :)
<mhall119> popey: no, on Fairphone 2
<ogra_> mhall119, "worked around"
<mhall119> and that bug is for unsigned packages
<ogra_> indeed
<mhall119> but I downloaded the terminal click from the store, so it is signed, it just fails to verify the signature
<ogra_> i would simply expect click and snap to be clever enough to realize they install something from a local path ... so they could just set that themselves and simply print a warning
<popey> mhall119: want a click that's not been near the store, to test?
<mhall119> popey: yes please
<mariogrip> popey: do you have the "cool" version of the music app, tried to compile it myself but something broke...
<popey> ok, one moment
<ogra_> mariogrip, whats "cool" about it ?
<popey> uploading all my daily clicks
 * ahayzen wonders what 'cool' version is
<popey> hahah
<popey> ahayzen: any one you have worked on ã
<ogra_> does it play popey fart sounds all the time when pressing a button or some such ?
<popey> haha
<ahayzen> popey, obviously you are working on bug 1425590
<ubot5`> bug 1425590 in Ubuntu Music App "Disco Mode Support" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425590
<popey>  ð
<mhall119> lol
<mariogrip> I spotted this: https://code.launchpad.net/~music-app-dev/music-app/music-streaming
<ahayzen> mariogrip, ah :-)
<mariogrip> :)
<popey> mhall119: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/clicks/20160213-150001/
<mhall119> oSoMoN: so webbrowser-app crashed on me on the desktop (not unusual) and apport is generating a crash report that is now over 100MB in size, is that normal?
<mhall119> oSoMoN: and it just aborted with: Your computer does not have enough free memory to automatically analyze the problem and send a report to the developers."
<popey> its a core dump, so yeah, all of the ram used by the program, it will be big
<oSoMoN> mhall119, havenât seen that before. IÂ suggest you buy more RAMÂ :)
<ogra_> for bigger core dumps ?
<popey> hah
<mariogrip> mhall119: Download more ram  :)
<mariogrip> google it
<mhall119> apt-get install more-ram fails
<mhall119> popey: installing the unsigned terminal app works
<ogra_> thats because we dont use dpkg here
<popey> \o/
<oSoMoN> because of not enough free memory?
<mhall119> snappy install more-ram
<popey> I'M IN YOUR PHONE!
<ogra_> click install more-ram
<popey> (unconfined)
<mhall119> popey: great, now fix it!
<popey> mhall119: wonder if you need to have the click store deb installed?
<popey> or whatever package brings in the gpg signatures
<mhall119> popey: maybe it does that if I login to U1
<mhall119> but without wifi, I can't do that
<popey> doubt it
<Elleo> mhall119: we could actually have a more-ram package that uses post-inst to create a swapfile...
<mariogrip> mhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/AdbNetworking :)
<mhall119> or I can do that ^
<ogra_> Elleo, lol
<popey> mhall119: do you have unity-scope-click installed?
<popey> (debian package)
<mhall119> Elleo: then I'll need a more-disk-space package too, that creates a ramdisk in memory
<Elleo> hehe
<mhall119> popey: yup
<ogra_> Elleo, sudo apt-get install swapspace
<ogra_> i think that does it
<ogra_> (creating swap files on demand)
<Elleo> ogra_: oh wow
<Elleo> that's cool
<ogra_> (there was a recent discussion about it on ubuntu-devel@)
<popey> mhall119: oooh click-ubuntu-policy do you have that?
<popey> that has the gpg keyring
<mhall119> 0.1 installed
<mariogrip> oh wow, this worked: http://www.downloadmoreram.com/ I now have 32GB on my fairphone 2
<mhall119> I've at least got a working terminal on the FP2 now \o/
<popey> hmm, dunno then, strace the pkcon install that fails and we can look at it and see what fails :)
<popey> yay
<ogra_> mhall119, hacker !
<mariogrip> popey: I stole the music app from your link, but it wont start :(
<popey> logs?
<popey> in .cache/upstart
 * ogra_ bets there is a line "missing button-fart-sounds.mp3"
<tathhu> =D
<mariogrip> popey: what log file is it? no log for the music app
<mhall119> mariogrip: let's skip the hangout today, since we're already well into it here on IRC
<mariogrip> mhall119: that's up to you :) for me it's the same
<mhall119> mariogrip: I'd say the priorities now are to make sure u-d-f always works (making sure it doesn't have the old broken recovery.img) and then getting wifi working so we can do OTA updates
<mariogrip> popey: found it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15078193/
<mhall119> I saw that Maaten and Wouter have gotten the flashing working
<mariogrip> mhall119: the udf should work now, it's up to date
<mhall119> awesome, then we just need wifi
<dobey> ogra_, Arctic: you need to use system-image.ubports.com for the server, and i have ubuntu-touch/stable on my phone, but it has ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed as well (but i was having issues with that)
<mariogrip> mhall119: I have set screen as priority 1, but I can get wifi
<mhall119> mariogrip: also, can the recovery automatically mount /cache and /data so we don't have to keep doing that?
<mhall119> mariogrip: I think wifi is more important, because it'll make getting updates in the future easier, but if you think you're close to having the screen issues fixed keep on that
<popey> mariogrip: interesting, wonder if it's a sound problem?
<mhall119> I set it to never shut the screen off, so as long as I get it past the bootsplash I'm fine
<Arctic> dobey: how do I get multirom to use that?
<Arctic> query me
<popey> what image is your build based off mariogrip ?
<mhall119> popey: while you're publishing coreapps, you wouldn't happen to have a dekko build for desktops would you?
<popey> I don't, but I know dpm probably does in his special ppa
<mhall119> dpm: you have a special PPA?
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~dpm/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<mariogrip> mhall119: Yeah, I can switch to working on wifi, i need a break from mir
<popey> built 45 mins ago
 * dpm feels special :)
<popey> You're special to us dpm :)
<mhall119> mariogrip: I don't doubt it :)
<mariogrip> popey: rc-proposed
<dpm> awwww
<dpm> mhall119, yeah, that's where I test dekko on the desktop
<mariogrip> dpm: :)
<mhall119> dpm: we only love you for your PPA :-P
<popey> mariogrip: hmm, I don't know why music won't start then, does sound work on the FP2 build?
<dpm> hahaha
<popey> Looks like it tries to do some dbus things
<mhall119> popey: not yet, not on mine anyway
<mariogrip> popey: I installed it on bq 4.5
<popey> oh!
<popey> no idea then, sorry
<popey> it's an untested daily build
<popey> You get to keep the pieces
<mhall119> dpm: what PPA do you use for dekko testing?
<mariogrip> i'll try reboot, that always works
<dpm> mhall119, https://launchpad.net/~dpm/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<popey> 17:26 < popey> https://launchpad.net/~dpm/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<popey> :)
<dpm> I've got all core apps building daily there
<dpm> except from file manager
<mhall119> thanks
<dpm> as I've not found a good way to resolve the conflict with the shared plugin with Terminal
<mariogrip> popey: well, reboot worked xP
<mariogrip> awww, this is not the "cool" version...
<mariogrip> mhall119: I see the smoose guys is on the hangout list, are they joining?
<mhall119> mariogrip: they hadn't before
<mhall119> I just joined the hangout and nobody is there, so likely not
<mariogrip> oh, ok. are we skipping it?
<mhall119> yeah, let's just continue the discussion here
<mariogrip> mhall119: ok
<dobey> Arctic: i don't know. i don't use multirom. and i'm not really here today
<Arctic> ;(
<Arctic> alright dobey
<Arctic> thx anyway :)
<Arctic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O9aLYSntTQ
<mhall119> mariogrip: do you want me to arrange a call with tvoss later this week for the screen/mir issue?
<Arctic> wrong channel
<Arctic> sorry
 * mhall119 assumes that was the Mir break you needed 
<mariogrip> mhall119: Yeah, that would be great :)
<mhall119> dpm: hmmm, dekko gets itself into an endless loop, printing handleDataChanged >>> MESSAGE ###### NOT ARRIVED YET when it tried to open an account's inbox
<mhall119> popey: DanChapman: ^^ on the desktop, btw
 * dpm starts dekko on desktop
<mhall119> and it's repeating numbers for ######, they're not all unique, so something seems to be stuck in a loop
<dpm> I remember having this issue
<dpm> I think I even filed a bug
<dpm> oh, my accounts were lost
<DanChapman> mhall119, yeah that's a known issue. Try letting the first flag sync finish before letting dekko go into the background. Bug in the notification worker.
<mhall119> DanChapman: I'm running it on Unity 7, is backgrounding a thing here?
 * ogra_ finds the separation between IMAP and SMTP accounts weird 
<ogra_> is that a design team thing ?
<dpm> mhall119, https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1543065
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1543065 in Dekko "Dekko uses 100% CPU on the desktop" [Medium,Triaged]
<DanChapman> mhall119, yeah it's a thing. If Dekko isn't the active app then the notificiations service kicks in
<DanChapman> ogra_, no that's a bug in the setup wizard. It should ask you if you want to add the smtp config while setting up imap. But it's only working if autoconfig finds your settings. It's on my priorities list
<ogra_> DanChapman, ah, i actually use google for outgoing stuff, that explains it then (indeed there is no config for google on my local IMAP server)
<mhall119> DanChapman: well, if I leave it as the active app, I just get a white screen and nothing else
<DanChapman> mhall119, any other errors in the log? White screen usually means somethings missing
<mhall119> DanChapman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15080553/ is from letting it sit for several minutes and then closing the window
<mhall119> the last line only appears when I close it
<DanChapman> mhall119, ahhh are you on wiley? I see ile:///usr/share/dekkoproject/dekko/qml/Composer/Composer.qml:166 ScrollView is not a type. which afaik is only available on xenial or with the phone overlay ppa
<mhall119> oh, ok, that explains it
<mhall119> mariogrip: I've not heard from tvoss yet about the Wednesday meeting, so it may get moved or canceled depending on his availability
<mhall119> I didn't see anything on his work calendar, but that doesn't mean he's not consumed by WMC stuff
<mariogrip> mhall119: ack, I have time all week after about 14.00 so that's fine
<howefield>  #category5
<howefield> sorry, typo
<tathhu> Can i somehow disable scren turning on when I got new notification from eg telegram?
<ogra_> well, you could put something on top of the proximity sensor
<ogra_> if ti is covered the screen wont turn on (i,e, in your pocket)
<ogra_> there is no setting though
<mcphail> jhodapp: thanks for the fix for the # character blockage in the music app. looking forward to getting this
<jhodapp> mcphail, sure thing, you can test it out with silo 21 if you're curious to try it
<ahayzen> ooo there is a fix \o/
<ahayzen> jhodapp, for OTA10 ?
<jhodapp> ahayzen, yeah should be there
<ahayzen> sweet, thanks jhodapp :-)
<jhodapp> no problem :)
<mcphail> jhodapp: might try that. Your hard work is much appreciated
<jhodapp> mcphail, thanks!
<Arctic> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/ubuntu-phone-fingerprint-biometric-blockchain-ethereum
<_Sponge> mariogrip: I was wondering if you'd the Acer iconia a200 to the list of ubports ?
<_Sponge> http://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/acer-iconia-a200/2281
<mariogrip> _Sponge: No, https://devices.ubports.com/#/
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Cud you add it to the Voting Devices , at all ?
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Yeah, sure :)
<_Sponge> cheers, I shall update the discourse page, appropriately.
<_Sponge> mariogrip: have you set up a bTC wallet/box yet ?
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Just for some of the devices, but will add a automatic system there (I need to separate the address so I know what device it's going to
<_Sponge> ok, let me know, when it happens, & I'll comply for the iconia.
<mariogrip> https://devices.ubports.com/#/A200
<_Sponge> mariogrip: ok, i did a  tester donation. cheers.
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Thank you! :)
<_Sponge> mariogrip: just need to change the donationns bar, but I'll leave that till tomorrow. Thanks.
<NwS> A few more days
<ajeck> I'm trying to force my broadcom wifi adapter's power savings mode off.  I've tried various approaches like adding a hook to the power.d and sleep.d.  Found out that systemd installs no longer respect those hooks and then made a systemd service that then executes iwconfig wlan0 power off on boot and that didn't work either.  The only thing that seems to have worked a little is setting a dispatcher.d for NetworkMonitor
<ajeck> but after a while if i unplug the device or it sits for a few hours it switches back to power save mode
<ajeck> any other ideas?
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-16
<nhaines> !support | ajeck
<ubot5`> ajeck: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<ajeck> nhaines: why would #ubuntu for ubuntu touch support?
<k1l_> ajeck: oh, it did sound like a usb-wifi on laptop issue.
<ajeck> k1l_: nah this is a nexus 5
<ajeck> has a broadcom chip
<k1l_> ok :)
<jabawok> hi all.. anyone know how long an ota update from 7 to 9 is meant to take?
<jabawok> BQ e5 new out of box -> update
<jabawok> been 30mins sofar, stuck on the bq "powered by ubuntu" white boot screen
<jabawok> i'll keep waiting a while
<Stanley00> jabawok: I think it's just boot logo, the update process will show a rolling circle
<jabawok> ah.. thats not good
<jabawok> what do u think.. power off/on again?
<Stanley00> jabawok: yes
<Stanley00> jabawok: in the worst case, you only need to flash the rom again :3
<jabawok> yeah looks like i might have to
<jabawok> same screen
 * jabawok looks up how to do that
<jabawok> oh wait
<jabawok> look like it posted!
<jabawok> the old give it time trick
<Stanley00> jabawok: yay, btw, in case you want to reflash, here is the link http://www.mibqyyo.com/descargas/categorias/aquaris-e5-ubuntu-edition/
<jabawok> thanks Stanley00.. you rock
<ajeck> has anyone run into the problem with /usr running out of space after mounting the system as writable?
<duflu> ajeck: Yes, and there are workarounds
<duflu> ajeck: http://askubuntu.com/a/660886
<abhilabh> hello
<ajeck> duflu: thanks,  the most voted one seems interesting.  I wonder if i could figure out a way to edit fstab so that the settings are preserved .
<duflu> ajeck: The one I linked to is my technique. It's very fast. Although it baffles people who don't understand how sparse filesystems work :(
<duflu> :(
<duflu> :)
 * duflu has a new keyboard and things are in the wrong place
<ajeck> duflu: how so?  the fact that you are adding zeros at the end but not taking space?
<duflu> ajeck: Because the same df command without seek= would just wipe the disk instead
<duflu> So people are suspicious and worried
<ajeck> duflu: ahh, well it did seem simpler
<duflu> Hence the warning... /this will either do what you want or wipe your disk (if typed wrong)/
<duflu> ajeck: BTW any OTA updates may replace that root image and reset it to 2GB
<duflu> So either hack your device, or allow updates, but not both
<ajeck> duflu: yah got it.
<jabawok> first day with an ubuntu phone for me. loving it so far. Well done to any devs in channel!!
<jabawok> so far got owncloud contacts/calendar sync working
<jabawok> figuring out rss reader opml import atm
<Tm_T> I'm on a proposed channel, I did install some Ubuntu updates yesterday and my Meizu haven't booted up since
<Tm_T> is there any debug method I should try before bulldozing over?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Innovation Day! ð
<zzarr> hello! I know my phone, Meizu MX4, do not support MHL, but is it possible to use a Displaylink Monitor?
<V99> hi
<davmor2> zzarr: How are you going to link to it?
<victor_bq> Hi!
<victor_bq> does anyone knows if there is a way to directly save contacts in SIM through the UI or terminal?
<nhaines> No clue!  :)
<nhaines> Although actually I know there's *some* way... so better to say I have no clue how.
<ogra_> you can definitely import them from the SIM ... but no idea if you can also export, write or store them there
<davmor2> victor_bq: not currently, you can pull from but not save to
<victor_bq> Ok thanks, seems that we all have the same info :P
<victor_bq> I just wanted to mention that because some customers ask from time to time about it
<ogra_> victor_bq, you can wait for bfiller to show up ... his team works on that and he knows if/where it is on the roadmap
<victor_bq> good to read that =)
<davmor2> ogra_, victor_bq: bfiller I think is on holiday this week iirc tiagosh or boiko might be a better bet for now
<zzarr> davmor2, a Displaylink GPU is speaking USB
<davmor2> zzarr: I doubt very much that it would work, Saviq, mzanetti or kgunn maybe be able to confirm though
<mzanetti> no clue
<Saviq> zzarr, it would Just Workâ¢, assuming there's drivers, which there are none last I checked
<Saviq> zzarr, DisplayLink is really just a GPU connected over USB
<Saviq> there's a long-running campaign to convince DisplayLink to supply Linux drivers, but I don't think anything's happening on that front yet
<Saviq> with USB-C coming, that might just be wasted work at that point anyway
<Saviq> so I wouldn't hold my breath
<kgunn> zzarr: fwiw, i'm not familiar
<zzarr> Saviq, I know that it is, but on there page it says that the driver is open source
<Saviq> zzarr, oh, that's a new development
<Saviq> zzarr, so, in theory it should be possible, assuming the OTG support has enough throughput, in practice, though, Mir is using a newer driver model than X (EGL), which might still prove problematic
<Saviq> so we'd need newer drivers for DisplayLink (not impossible, especially if they're open source)
<Saviq> could be an interesting GSoC project
<zzarr> Saviq, I think it's interesting, I hope the source code is good enough (like clean code good)
<zzarr> I have to go now, but I leave my XChat open
<dobey> zzarr: the displaylink drivers are proprietary. there is a basic open source implementation of an older version of displaylink in the upstream linux kernel.
<mterry> pitti, the language-pack-touch packages haven't been regenerated in the stable-phone-overlay PPA since we commited that 'pam' fix.  Can we remake them to test that change?
<jgdx> charles, hey, that settings:///system/location system settings branch is ready for your silo. Which silo was it?
<charles> jgdx, ubuntu/landing-012 in https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/949
<charles> jgdx, want me to add https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1533835/+merge/285603 and rebuild?
<jgdx> charles, yes, please. That would be great.
<jgdx> kenvandine, could you take a look at that branch as well? ^ maybe seb128 too
<seb128> jgdx, not likely today but maybe tomorrow if nobody beats me to it
<jgdx> seb128, ack. Thanks
<kenvandine> jgdx, sure
<zzarr> dobey, thanks for clarifying that
<pitti> mterry: I started the cronjob, but not sure if that makes any sense -- we need a new RTM export
<pitti> mterry: but if this one fails, the cron'ed one will run in about 18 hours
<joe_w> hi, mail app dekko icon has stopped working, can remove/move, cant load though....restart works but then stops again...any help would be appreciated
<joe_w> *on side launcher
<DanChapman> joe_w, that's probably bug 1541388. Looks like it's been fixed already
<ubot5`> bug 1541388 in Canonical System Image "Icons in launcher sometimes refuse to launch application" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1541388
<joe_w> DanChapman, thanks
<pitti> mterry: as I feared -- I just got the two metric tons of REJECT emails
<mterry> pitti, so we need a new RTM export as you said above?  Does that require manual intervention or will that just happen on schedule?
<pitti> mterry: it'll all happen automagically tomorrow
<pitti> mterry: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+language-packs FYI
<mterry> pitti, good enough  :)  Thanks for trying early anyway
 * pitti should have looked at that page first before firing the cronjob :)
<pitti> sorry universe for heating you up a bit more in vain
<mterry> :)
<NwS> Heya guys a quick Q. Will Ubuntu introduce a convergence mobile in WMC (together with the tablet)?
<OerHeks> It is MWC, and yes, http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-will-be-present-at-mwc-2016-to-showcase-its-ubuntu-convergence-500338.shtml
<NwS> Ehm yeah MWC messed up the letters xD tyvm
<lotuspsychje> and OerHeks will prob buy the new meizu 5 pro :p
<OerHeks> nope, as it will be more expensive .. unless i win the jackpot
<NwS> I'm waiting to buy my first Ubuntu phone too
<OerHeks> BQ5 it is
<NwS> No ty :P ugly
 * lotuspsychje is the proud owner of Bq 4.5
<NwS> I would buy the Meizu MX4 but it was sold out
<NwS> And then some guys here told me that it wouldn't support convergence anyway so I am still waiting :P
<NwS> Hopefully I'll have enough money to buy it within the next months.. We'll see.
<lotuspsychje> here $$$$$$
<dasjoe> I experience an issue with OTA-9, when connecting a BT keyboard to my Nexus 4 I can close the "Scopes" application (if it doesn't crash by itself, that is) and then can't find a way to restart it
<jamie1> hey i am wanting to work on porting ubuntu touch to the z3c, right now i am on 15.10, should i be on 14.04 to be working on it? some of the stuff for building is only for utopic
<dasjoe> As it turns out "Scopes" disappears about half the time. When it doesn't disappear by itself I can close the window, which then tries to reopen itself for a few times before giving up
<dasjoe> Any way to get it back? :)
<Guest37661> hello
<dobey> dasjoe: "restart unity8-dash" maybe
<Guest37661> can i install ubuntu touch on arm a8 devices
<jamie1> Guest37661: if there is a port available for your device
<Guest37661> port as in?
<Guest37661> like boot from micro sd card
<jamie1> what device are you trying to put ubuntu touch on?
<Guest37661> ubislate 7c+
<jamie1> Guest37661: here is the list of devices that ubuntu touch is currently work on
<jamie1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<Guest37661> Thanks, but I looked up the list before. Can I boot from sd card in android
<dobey> Guest37661: you can't boot anything, if your device wasn't ported
<jamie1> it cant communicate with the hardware without the device being ported to
<ahoneybun> is it a bug if the icon in the Dash is not updated with the new one?
<ahoneybun> uNav in this case
<dasjoe> dobey: well, that would require an adb connection via USB. I'm on the go, with just the phone and a bluetooth keyboard
<dobey> dasjoe: no, you can use the terminal app
<dobey> i suppose you would need it to be running at the time, though
<dobey> or at least, in the launcher
<dobey> ahoneybun: possibly, but highly unlikely
<ahoneybun> I unpinned it and repinned it, and it was updated dobey
<ahoneybun> thanks
<dobey> ahoneybun: you mean the launcher didn't auto-update then?
<dasjoe> dobey: oh right, I'll try that
<ahoneybun> no the icon was the old white one
<ahoneybun> not the new blue one
<dasjoe> dobey: it opens and immediately gets killed (by TRAP signal, according to .xsession-errors)
<dobey> ahoneybun: you mean in the launcher, though, not the dash? the dash doesn't have things pinned in it (unless you went about tweaking some gsettings by hand)
<ahoneybun> launcher I mean, sorry
<dobey> dasjoe: sounds like it could be a bug then; do you have anything in /var/crash ?
<dasjoe> dobey: nope, it's empty
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> dasjoe: i'd suggest filing a bug to get started then
<dasjoe> dobey: right, filed :)
<QuentinQuaadgras> Hi can anyone help me with installing Ubuntu Touch on an i386 touchscreen laptop?
<QuentinQuaadgras> I have the images but I am unsure how to format the partitions
<QuentinQuaadgras> anyone here?
<QuentinQuaadgras> Is this the right place to ask or can someone point me somewhere?
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-17
<jabawok> morning/arvo/evening all
<jabawok> anyone know how to stop the terminal app from stopping the foreground process when you lock the phone or switch tasks?
<jabawok> when i switch back to the terminal, i see "[1]+ Stopped", which i can resume with fg
<jabawok> but that breaks ssh tunnels etc
<jabawok> i'll be idling...
<duflu> jabawok: Yeah Ubuntu Phone will SIGSTOP background apps for absolute confidence of no power impact
<duflu> but...
<duflu> You might have some success with changing process group IDs so your background task isn't stopped by the shell
<jabawok> hmm ok
<duflu> Someone asked the same a while back. I don't remember there being a reliable workaround at the time
<duflu> But theoretically we could allow one
<jabawok> there kinda needs to be, for console apps
<jabawok> like a checkbox option in the terminal settings
<duflu> jabawok: Absolutely. I'm not sure if or where a convenient solution has been implemented for it yet
<jabawok> cheers duflu
<jabawok> i'll have a play with process group IDs
<duflu> jabawok: If you start your long-lived daemon from an ssh or adb login and with 'nohup' it should stay forever and stay awake
<jabawok> ah good to know
<duflu> Of course, just don't complain the phone uses more battery then
<jabawok> absolutely
<jabawok> i'm a N900 user, so well aware of power management issues with spinning processes
<talonz> what i wouldnt give for a octocore powered n900 with 4 gigs of ram and ubuntu touch
<jabawok> talonz: i'd be over the moon with original maemo n900 but 1G ram
<jabawok> that would seriously tide me over a few more years
<talonz> i love maemo too but my new love is ubuntu touch
<jabawok> i'm learning to love it
<jabawok> definitely the future
<talonz> i still have my n900 but its a desk ornament now i charge it up every now and then and have a play
<jabawok> yeah still use n900 as production device for vncviewer and xmpp chat - at least till I can find workable solutions on the ubuntu phone
<talonz> this year should be good for utouch
<jabawok> looking forward to it
<duflu> kgunn: Would you know where the latest/official version of the design is for https://launchpadlibrarian.net/185489285/design.jpg ?
<duflu> In case it has changed?
<duflu> Or 'buttons' in general
<kgunn> duflu: this should be it
<kgunn> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pZ-Ro--2eaRzjZKNRoYAeDvQHMkCuyvVuPFWFQfPW4s/edit
<kgunn> i know there's a lot of work ongoing in oobe right now
<duflu> kgunn: I got more of a kick out of seeing future designs than expected :)
<duflu> kgunn: Also interesting to see at least one of my complaints about our colour scheme is just a bug in the QML and not from design
<_Sponge> Good MorrowMorning !
<Guest98022> how to port ubuntu touch to arm cortex a8 devices
<Guest98022> does anyone know?
<Guest98022> to port ubuntu touch xenial to arm a8
<Stanley00> Guest98022: there's a url for porting in the topic of this channel. Did you look at it?
<Guest98022> i am looking at various threads on this topic
<Guest98022> i am a noob in this
<Guest98022> will it install a bootloader by itself?
<Stanley00> Guest98022: well, you may need compile the kernel, make yourself new boot image, and build ubuntu code for your a8... it's a lot of thind to do
<Guest98022> i read that xenial works on arm devices.
<Guest98022> cortex a8 too.
<Guest98022> so if i port ubuntu for arm a8 on a sd card and insert in a supported device, it should boot and work
<Stanley00> Guest98022: you must put it in internal flash, just as other rom image. Or are you talking about some kind of multiboot rom?
<Guest98022> i have a arm cortex a8 board
<Guest98022> i am going to try to boot ubuntu in it. thats the goal.
<Guest98022> it doesnt have its own bootloader or anything
<Guest98022> so i ll try to boot from microsd
<Stanley00> ah, I see, in this case, putting it in sdcard is fine
<Guest98022> ok i try
<kivi> Hey my friend sent me an audio attachment via sms, and it says "Audio Attachment not supported." How can I get this audio attachment off my phone and view it?
<Becku> Hello!
<Becku> when ota 9.5!!!???
<talonz> Becku: not yet!!!!????
<Becku> ;/
<talonz> 9.1 has been delayed for 2 weeks so my guess would be 9.5 would be delayed as well
<Becku> :(
<amazoniantoad> I am trying to use my SD card I put in my phone...but I get an error saying it cannot be formatted
<MCMic> amazoniantoad: yes itâs quite buggy, it might have mounted and used the SD card and therefore is not able to unmount it, something like this
<RahulAN> Hi all
<amazoniantoad> MCMic, I got it.
<amazoniantoad> You have to boot with the SD card in the slot...
<RahulAN> Is it possible to dump ubuntu-touch on any smart phone?
<amazoniantoad> yes
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: not yet
<amazoniantoad> A good idea? No.
<lotuspsychje> !devices | RahulAN
<ubot5`> RahulAN: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<amazoniantoad> lotuspsychje, I thought you could...but it doesn't mean that it will really work
<lotuspsychje> amazoniantoad: some devices wont work at all
<amazoniantoad> lotuspsychje, Oh. Didn't know that.
<lotuspsychje> amazoniantoad: check the porting guide in topic
<amazoniantoad> lotuspsychje, how goes development on the touch? I bought the E5 but I want to put it on my s4 active
<RahulAN> lotuspsychje: what are the requirements ??
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: a device needs to be ported, to fully run ubuntu-touch
<RahulAN> I have micromax canvas A11
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN, amazoniantoad check the XDA forums for more existing projects
<RahulAN> lotuspsychje: ported means?
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: porting means, creating a specific hardware based ubuntu touch version for a specific device
<RahulAN> lotuspsychje: Ok.. It needs many change in OS at firmware level?
<RahulAN> is it?
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: check the porting guide mate, its all explained
<RahulAN> Ok..
<lotuspsychje> amazoniantoad: developers working hard, but its not real easy to port a new device, i hear the fairphone 2 is getting a port also
<RahulAN> lotuspsychje: Thats impressive .. :)
<RahulAN> I am waiting when i will get rid of this android
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: you can already install touch on nexus devices like a charm
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: got it running on my nexus7 phablet
<lotuspsychje> and bought a BQ 4.5 with touch
<RahulAN> But i don;t have nexus
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: buy one 2nd hand :p
<RahulAN> Yes i am also planning to buy aquaris .
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: got mine for 169 euro
<RahulAN> Yes i will also find one
<RahulAN> well i am much intrested to make an experiment on my phone
<lotuspsychje> experiment of what
<RahulAN> to make it work on my micromax smartphone
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: like i said, the porting to a new device isnt very easy..
<RahulAN> Yes  i understand ..
<RahulAN> lotuspsychje: well how is ubuntu-touch experience
<Stanley00> talking about BQ phones, do you know how long these phone'll get update from BQ/Canonical?
<RahulAN> i mean is it same what we feel in unity
<lotuspsychje> Stanley00: what you mean how long?.
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: very great! smooth, fast and secure
<RahulAN> We have terminal in there?
<Stanley00> lotuspsychje: well, just as in Android phones, mostly will not get any update after 1/2 years
<lotuspsychje> RahulAN: yes, but you cant install packages like ubuntu desktop from terminal
<RahulAN> Ohkk
<lotuspsychje> Stanley00: ubuntu doesnt work that way, manufacturers have a deal with canonical and will get you update support forever
<lotuspsychje> you cant just leave users in the cold right
<Stanley00> wow, it's great! super, super great
<svij> lotuspsychje: it wont be "forever"
<lotuspsychje> svij: until when then?
<svij> I often heard that it will be supported as long bq supports it.
<svij> I doubt that we will have updates in 5 years ;)
<lotuspsychje> svij: so what you saying is, customers buy a device and they will drop updates on one day?
<svij> lotuspsychje: on one day, yes. Even though it will be probably longer than most of the android phones, i guess.
<lotuspsychje> svij: so whats the phylosophy of opensource in this story?
<svij> lotuspsychje: I don't know?
<Stanley00> It's just that not all part in BQ phones are opensource.
<svij> like in any other phone
<lotuspsychje> svij: i mean ubuntu desktop will let you update forever right,
<lotuspsychje> why not ubuntu touch?
<svij> lotuspsychje: yes, but ARM and x86 is a little difference regarding hardware support
<davmor2> Stanley00: the commitment from canonical is to support all devices for as long as possible, if we have to move everything to arm64 for example then we lose anything that doesn't support arm64 and so on. On the whole it should be a nicer ride, but products will end support at some point but there will be notices for when that happens.
<svij> that's a clearer answer. :)
<lotuspsychje> davmor2: so that would make a device useless at one day?
<lotuspsychje> thats cold...
<Stanley00> and it's better than many other providers :3
<davmor2> lotuspsychje: In theory it could be passed over to the community to work on but for example Linux is Still called i386 good luck running it on an i386
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> davmor2: so lets say canonical comes with a new phone on their own, would that change it to updates forever?
<davmor2> lotuspsychje: no because canonical doesn't make hardware, and at some point the hardware would cease to be viable for new features at which point it would be retired,  Hardware is a limit and unlike pc's where you can switch out bits to make it better you can't do that with phones
<lotuspsychje> davmor2: ok i understand
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy World Human Spirit Day! ð
<PHroGman> Can you put Ubuntu touch on 5th gen Kindke fire?
<PHroGman> Kindle
<k1l> does it have a unlocked bootloader? then you just need to make a port and see if you can get the drivers.
<PHroGman> Not sure if the bootloader is unlocked
<jgdx> pete-woods, hey, around? Could you help me explain why I can't change multiple properties rapidly? Check out the dbus monitor http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15100164/
<jgdx> pete-woods, the only thing that changed was compLzo. protoTcp and certPass are left unchanged
<pete-woods> jgdx: I can only think it must be a bug in the server?
<jgdx> pete-woods, hm, I'll file it then. And work around it.
<pete-woods> jgdx: could you file a bug on indicator-network for it
<pete-woods> yes, thanks
<pete-woods> it's supposed to cache up the changes, there must be a stupid bug in there..
<pete-woods> I'm pretty swamped with stuff at the minute, but will try and get the fix to you as soon as I can
<jgdx> pete-woods, pre ota10 you reckon? :)
<pete-woods> jgdx: there's no rush for ota10 IMO, the password storage doesn't work at the moment
<pete-woods> so while you can connect the the canonical VPN (as it doesn't need a password), you can't connect to any VPN that needs passwords
<pete-woods> I have a fix going in for some dodgy assembler in libgcrypt20
<jgdx> pete-woods, certPass you mean? Is there a bug I can refer to?
<pete-woods> jgdx: no, sorry there isn't
<jgdx> pete-woods, I filed bug1546560
<jgdx> bug 1546560
<ubot5> bug 1546560 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "Cannot connect to openvpn that requires certPass" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1546560
<pete-woods> jgdx: will link the relevant branches, the code is all done and working, but I need to get gnome-keyring and a couple of other packages seeded
<jgdx> pete-woods, okay, great. And this [1] is known or am I doing something wrong? [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1546589
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1546589 in indicator-network (Ubuntu) "VPN Connections are returned in random order" [Undecided,New]
<pete-woods> jgdx: yeah, that's known. I guess I kinda expected the UI to use a sort filter model or something like that
<pete-woods> to sort by name
<mterry> pitti, the latest touch langpack update doesn't have the pam module (Linux-PAM.mo) in it  :-/
<pete-woods> um, k, it seems like there's no sortable listview type thing in QML
<pete-woods> that surprises me
<jgdx> pete-woods, that's also not great because then we'd have to agree on something to make it consistent between USS and the indicator
<pete-woods> jgdx: fair point, will make sure the model is sorted by ID then
<jgdx> pete-woods, great
<dobey> sigh
<jgdx> pete-woods, sorry to hit you with all of these issues, but is this also known? I'm unable to set the port of a openvpn connection, like so http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/15100587/
<pete-woods> jgdx: no, that one I'm not familiar with
<pete-woods> jgdx: are you making sure to convert the textfield, text to int in the QML?
<pete-woods> as I *think* that works in the prototype UI
<jgdx> pete-woods, yeah, using parseInt. Maybe I need portSet?
<pete-woods> jgdx: I strongly recommend you closely read the prototype code
<pete-woods> the xSet properties determine if an optional property is/should be set
<pete-woods> and you should also bind it to the 'enabled' status of the text field
<jgdx> pete-woods, sure.
<mhall119> good morning mariogrip
<mariogrip> mhall119: morning :)
<mhall119> mariogrip: we're preparing tasks for the upcoming Google Summer of Code, and one of the ideas was to help a student work on a phone port, would you have the time to mentor somebody for a couple hours a week if we do that?
<mariogrip> mhall119: Yeah, that would be awesome!
<mhall119> \o/ I'll put you down for that then
<mhall119> mariogrip: second thing, can you email tvoss any errors or logs you have on the screen issue so he can look at them ahead of our call in ~30 minutes?
<mariogrip> mhall119: Sure
<mhall119> thanks
<mhall119> tvoss: are you still available for that call?
<tvoss> mhall119, yup
<tvoss> mhall119, I have had little time to prepare, though
<tvoss> mhall119, mariogrip if okay with you, having it tomorrow would help me a lot
<mhall119> understood, any help you can give is appreciated
<mhall119> mariogrip: does that work for you?
<mariogrip> mhall119: tvoss Yeah, sure
<mhall119> I'd need to move it to 1600 UTC tomorrow if we do
<mariogrip> That's fine for me
<mhall119> tvoss: ?
<tvoss> mhall119, works for me
<mhall119> alright, I'll move the invite
<mhall119> tvoss: mariogrip is going to email you what information he has on the issue today, so you can look over it whenever you have idle time
<tvoss> mhall119, mariogrip thanks
<jgdx> charles_, hey, silo 12 looks good to me.
<P_E_T_O> hi, after OTA9 on BQ E9 I cant boot into phone, see only "bq powered by ubuntu" can you please help me?
<P_E_T_O> sorry bq E5
<jamie1> anyone know if https://github.com/cyanogenmod/android_device_sony_z3c includes all the stuff required to port a touch to a device
<adfad666> don't touch that z3c repo, it's nasty
<adfad666> go with the Sony repo
<jamie1> adfad666: where can i find that
<adfad666> https://github.com/sonyxperiadev
<jamie1> adfad666: any advice on porting? im trying to port to the z3c and have not really ported anything before
<adfad666> actually most of the owrk should be done, I believe there are already some Sony repos hosted by ubuntu
<adfad666> I haven't been able to build them myself, been too busy, but I heard Canonical wants to show Ubuntu running on Sony devices pretty soon
<jamie1> adfad666: other than adding that stuff to device/sony/aries what else do i need to do
<adfad666> no idea, I'm not an Ubuntu dev :)
<adfad666> I work on AOSP
<jamie1> ah
<jamie1> im new to the project... just came over from firefox os
<adfad666> then you probably already used my work...
<jamie1> which devices?
<adfad666> I ported all Sony devices to Firefox OS
<jamie1> ah
<adfad666> Lollipop builds, not the Foxfooding Kitkat builds
<jamie1> thats actually why im trying to port to the z3c
<jamie1> firefox os is dying as of may
<adfad666> well, right now there's been a big response from FxOS community
<adfad666> who want to fork FxOS to continue it
<jamie1> yes i know... im part of the core team
<adfad666> so maybe it won't die
<adfad666> but yea, Ubuntu is my fallback plan too
<jamie1> right now they want to strip it to bare and give it to community... which leaves us with nothing but a device that boots with no core apps
<jamie1> lol so i was not the only one XD
<adfad666> well actualy I REALLY want to get ubuntu touch on my Z4 tab
<adfad666> I even got the special bluetooth keyboard for it
<jamie1> well porting to the z3c is a step in the right direction
<adfad666> just, damn, no time to do it
<jamie1> right now i just dont have much of an idea what im doing XD
<jamie1> I'm mainly QA
<adfad666> probably you should try to follow Sony's instructions on how to build pure AOSP
<adfad666> so you kow how to use the tools for porting
<jamie1> got some links?
<adfad666> http://developer.sonymobile.com/knowledge-base/open-source/open-devices/aosp-build-instructions/
<jamie1> right now all i have is that aosp stuff put in the devce/sony/aries folder
<jamie1> adfad666: how long do you think it will take a person to port that is not knowlegable in porting?
<adfad666> if you follow those instructions you should get a nice clean AOSP port
<adfad666> possibly months :D
<adfad666> it depends how analytical you are and how willing to solve errors youself by reading the error messages
<jamie1> like i said... im QA XD
<adfad666> most people who get stuck at a build error don't read the error messages properly, usually it's something they can solve themselves
<adfad666> too many give up too easily
<jamie1> i have done QA for firefox os for the last year and a half... was kinda my role to read the error messages
<jamie1> i just need to make use of this z3c i have... right now it has firefox os on it... and its not gonna be very useful for much longer
<adfad666> great, so you should be prepared to read a lot of error messages :P
<jamie1> adfad666: should i be on 12.04?
<adfad666> for building?
<jamie1> yes
<jamie1> im currently on wily
<adfad666> I don't know about the Ubuntu side, but building AOSP and Firefox OS is fine in wiley
<dobey> no you shouldn't be on 12.04
<adfad666> This manifest is probably a great place to start https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=aosp/platform/manifest.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/personal/w-ondra/xperia_5.1.1_r5
<jamie1> some of the stuff required they need for build is only avaible for utopic
<dobey> like what?
<jamie1> lib32readline-gplv2-dev
<jamie1> lib32bz2-1.0
<dobey> (12.04 isn't utopic anyway)
<jamie1> whoops lol
<jamie1> well its asking for utopic unicorn
<jamie1> sory 13.10
<dobey> utopic is 14.10
<jamie1> i thought 14 was trusty
<dobey> 14.04 is trusty
<jamie1> ah... the constantly changing numbers catch me up
<jamie1> sory
<dobey> the releases are every 6 months, not 12 :)
<jamie1> well i use ubuntu gnome... so they are a little different
<adfad666> it's easy to remember it's always Ubuntu year.month
<jamie1> i get them about 4 after you
<dobey> the release numbers are the same, but ubuntu gnome is a relatively new derivative
<jamie1> i never put the two and two together
<jamie1> they are the same numbers but usually not done until several months after the core ubuntu is done
<dobey> that doesn't sound right. but anyway, doesn't matter
<jamie1>  times
<jamie1> thats how i have seen it... or when i have seen it... might just be me behind the times
<dobey> jamie1: anyway, you don't need utopic. if you're on 15.10, it should be fine.
<jamie1> okay... ouch not sure how i did this https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8860074
<dobey> you probably did something that mucked up $PATH :)
<dobey> open a new terminal and try again?
<mcphail> jamie1: suspect yu've added Android ttols to your PATH, but didn't remember to append your old PATH to your new PATH ;)
<jamie1> how do i fix this... i cant get into nano now
<mcphail> jamie1: use the full path for a binary. It'll probably be /usr/bin/nano
<mcphail> actually, /bin/nano
<mcphail> then edit ~/.bashrc (or wherever you messed up the PATH variable)
<jamie1> i removed what I added and now im not sure how to update the source.... when i do i get nother error of the same
<mcphail> jamie1: "source ~.bashrc"
<mcphail> jamie1: "source ~/.bashrc"
<jamie1> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8860076
<jamie1> and this is why you dont let qa touch tings XD
<mcphail> "export PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"
<mcphail> then your shell should work again
<jamie1> it does thanks
<jamie1> now to trying again, at least when i mess up i know how to fix it now
<mcphail> :)
<mcphail> My $PATH environment variable has gained _years_ of cruft as I just copy my .bashrc from one install to the next
<jamie1> lol, worked this time, i messed up the path to the /.bin got it right this time
<jamie1> sorry for all the crap... once i get the hang of this ill be fine
<mcphail> jamie1: I suspect we've all done the same thing. Good luck with the porting
<jamie1> thanks
<_Sponge> quiet evening :)
<lpotter> yay. soundcloud scope finally works again
<tonyp>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER tonyp xaopxmclbkts
<lpotter> damn spaces
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-18
<mariogrip> mhall119: ping
<mhall119> mariogrip: pong
<nhaines> mhall119: on the one hand I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that OTA-10 won't be until the end of March.
<nhaines> On the other hand, I run rc-proposed anyway so trololol.
<mhall119> nhaines: yeah, same here :)
<mhall119> there's likely to be a 9.x OTA between now and then though
<nhaines> Sure, with the glib hotfix and nothing else.  :)
<talonz> what happened to 9.5 ?
<nhaines> talonz: a far more important security update came up and that was more important than the three other things the devel team are juggling.
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/meizu-pro-5-ubuntu-edition-specs-price
<lotuspsychje> lookin good!
<dacorr_> I had the E5 Aquarius for a while now
<lotuspsychje> dacorr_: still have it?
<lotuspsychje> im on bq 4.5 and real happy with it
<dacorr_> it replaced my android, some of my firends compare it to apple and android
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<dacorr_> mostly app store size
<lotuspsychje> im also glad i dumped android myself
<dacorr_> it seems more about info at finer tips than apps
<lotuspsychje> what you mean
<lotuspsychje> more news then apps?
<dacorr_> finger tips rather,
<dacorr_> news, feeds, social media etc.
<lotuspsychje> right
<dacorr_> The os is quick and consistent and i get 186hrs between charges
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> i love security and ease the most
<lotuspsychje> easy apps access and scopes you want
<lotuspsychje> on android its such a mess finding stuff
<dacorr_> i think android and apple are heading in a different route than ubuntu touch. will be interesting to see how the os develops
<lotuspsychje> dacorr_: ubuntu getting alot attention worldwide
<lotuspsychje> and 16.04 comming our way, will expand even more
<dacorr_> should be interesting. I remember when 4.04 was out. Canonical seems to have more focus than years ago and mobile device plays well for them
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> and now the new BQ tablet also
<mcphail> Any news on release date for OTA9.1? I'm still on 8.5, and keen to update so I can use the new dekko ;)
<MCMic> mcphail: Update to 9
<mcphail> MCMic: not with the current stability issues
<mcphail> MCMic: I need the "carsh during calls" fix
<mcphail> *crash
<MCMic> oh
<MCMic> Never had this one, did not know about it ^^
<MCMic> I needed thai character badly so I updated to OTA9 right away
<mcphail> MCMic: yes - that's what 9.1 is scheduled to fix (plus the libc vuln)
<MCMic> ok
<MCMic> Thanks for the info
<MCMic> Ubuntu touch is concerned by the glibc vulnerability?
<popey> mcphail: switch to rc-proposed ã
<mcphail> popey: can't. On-call this week. need to be on stable
<popey> its where the cool kids hang out ã
<popey> ah okay
<popey> the cool kids who have two phones ofc
 * mcphail looks at the cool kids enviously
<mcphail> popey: so if the cool kids have 2 phones, you must be ice cold ;)
<popey> hah
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Battery Day! ð
<mcphail> MCMic: yes - the glibc vuln is a bigger issue on mobile devices than desktops
<mcphail> MCMic: on a desktop, you can be fairly sure you're connected to a trusted nameserver
<MCMic> ok :-/
<davmor2> popey: pfff you and your old fashioned 2 phones pfff
<davmor2> popey: you need some spares there are 4 pockets in jeans for a reason you know ;)
<davidcalle> sil2100: hi, do we still support manta as a "reference" device? (working on: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/devices)
<ogra_> davidcalle, no, completely dropped recently
<sil2100> davidcalle: hey! No, we're not :) We're actually slowly removing it completely from our Ubuntu world soon
<davidcalle> ogra_, sil2100: that's what I thought, thanks :)
<ogra_> we have our own tablet soon !
<ogra_> :)
<davidcalle> ogra_: you now my shipping address! :)
<davidcalle> know* :)
<ogra_> haha, once someone sends me two you'll get one of them ;)
 * ogra_ will have to go the normal customer route this time like everyone else though ... :)
<davmor2> ogra_: you don't need one yet, it doesn't run snappy :P
<_Sponge> mariogrip: You had a donation for the A200. Please update the donations bar, thank-you.
<_Sponge> https://devices.ubports.com/#/
<peat-psuwit> mariogrip: How can I update info for my device on devices.ubports.com?
<mariogrip> peat-psuwit: https://devices.ubports.com/admin/#/
<mariogrip> _Sponge: done
<peat-psuwit> mariogrip: Thanks!
<cbaines> I have installed an app on my device through the store, and would like the coresponding source. Can I just find this online?
<mcphail> cbaines: is the app open source?
<cbaines> mcphail, No, its free software (licenced under the GNU GPLv3) (at least according to the ubuntu store)
<popey> which app?
<cbaines> Its called WorkMate
<cbaines> I tried searching for it here, but with no luck https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/search/?q=WorkMate&op=
<popey> not sure, but it's qml so you have the source on your phone
<popey> in /opt/click.ubuntu.com/
<cbaines> Interesting, thanks popey :)
<popey> np :)
<popey> obviously that wouldn't work with a C++ app, but happens to work in this instance
<mcphail> It would be nice to have an "apt-get source" equivalent for the store
<mcphail> (or a convention to have a src/ subdirectory in the click package)
<popey> yeah, can't see that being added for click, don't know what the plan is for snap
<stakewinner00> how to list modules in the terminal? lsmod doesn't work
<popey> lsmod only shows loaded modules
<popey> not built-in ones, or ones that have not been loaded
<bshah> sil2100: hi, around?
<sil2100> bshah: hey, sure
<peat-psuwit> Is there anyway to disable input devices (front buttons) in mir? It creates buggy event if I touch them.
<mariogrip> mhall119: ping
<bshah> sil2100: so this config should not generate any delta, right? https://paste.kde.org/pjmsq319k ?
<sil2100> bshah: it should be 'deltabase = ', not delta_base
<bshah> oooh
<bshah> daymn!
<sil2100> But besides that, yeah ;)
<bshah> okay.. next time then
<bshah> :p
<mhall119> mariogrip: pong
<mariogrip> mhall119: Do you have time to join now, I just want to discuss  general information about google summer of code
<mhall119> mariogrip: not just yet, we can discuss it after if you can stick around
<charles_> jgdx, could you give me a ping when kenvandine approves https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1533835/+merge/285603, I'll rebuild, reconfirm it works, and pass it along to QA :)
<mariogrip> mhall119: Ok
<anpok> peat-psuwit: unity-system-compositor only opens devices markes as input devices
<anpok> *marked
<anpok> peat-psuwit: hm there are a few udev properties that would be relevant
<anpok> peat-psuwit: i.e if ID_INPUT is not set or set to zero .. libinput should ignore the device
<anpok> peat-psuwit: or if it has ID_INPUT_ACCELEROMETER .. it would be ignored too..
<peat-psuwit> anpok: Thanks! Will try that.
<dobey> hmm, i can't seem to update my phone
<dobey> it just keeps spinning on "Checking for updatesâ¦"
<ogra_> network or server down ?
<dobey> s-i.u.c is?
<ogra_> oh, i thought you talk about N5
<dobey> no, my mako
<dobey> there's a notification for new update, and system-settings just sits there spinning :-/
<dobey> hmm
<mcphail> dobey: you on 3g or wifi? I get that on 3g
<dobey> seems u-d-m was stuck or something
<dobey> mcphail: wifi
<dobey> no sim in this phone
<mhall119> tvoss: call?
<tvoss> mhall119, joining
<kenvandine> charles_, that's approved
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, what was the js engine we use in oxide ? i seem to remember it wasnt v8
<chrisccoulson> ogra_, it's definitely v8 :)
<ogra_> oh ok, i thought there was something else flanged to blink in oxide
<peat-psuwit> anpok: it turns out that front buttons send events from the same device as touchscreen.
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi Guys, since the OTA-9 one app (namely OSM Scout) crashes every time I press the download map button. But it began already to behave strangely before the update. Simple unistalling and reistalling did not change anything.  Do you think that a complete removing of the app (via the console?!) might change anything and if yes how can I do that? Otherwise would it be possible to somehow "unisntall" only OTA-9 without loosing
<Nycticebuscoucan>  data?
<peat-psuwit> Now, the question is, how to ignore some event from a device?
<charles_> kenvandine, woot
<IZh> Hi! What components/services are responsible for MTP/PTP in Ubuntu Touch?
<tvoss> IZh, mtp-server
<IZh> tvoss: Thanks.
<anpok> peat-psuwit: ah.. no idea..
<anpok> peat-psuwit: is the hardware broken... or the driver fails to debounce?
<tonyp> Hi everyone, I am trying out creating a webapp. I have created one with Webapp generator and want to try it out on my BQ phone. I have copied it to my phone and run <adb shell pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted path-to.click> but it does not appear in my apps scope.  Any ideas why?
<ogra_> tonyp, try a pull down refresh
<tonyp> Done that
<ogra_> manually sideloaded apps are not automatically picked up
<IZh> tvoss: Could you please point me to its git?
<ogra_> https://code.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/mtp/trunk
<ogra_> bzr ... not git :)
<peat-psuwit> anpok: When I pressed on the button, then slide the finger out off the button (it's touch screen button), it'll always repeatedly press that button.
<anpok> peat-psuwit: ah ok .. best thing you could do is look inside the kernel.. those android button faking touchscreen usually have configuration options to ignore touches outside the screen area
<anpok> maybe even a runtime option
<peat-psuwit> anpok: looking in dmesg and kernel's code, it seems like it'll emit BUTTON_CANCLED event when that happen
<popey> tonyp: pull down the scope to refresh
<anpok> peat-psuwit: oh a specific event for that.. hm can you install evtest and paste the logs for such a scenario
<tonyp> popey: I have done that hundreds of times :-)
<peat-psuwit> anpok: I'll try.
<tonyp> popey: and just rebooted
<mhall119> tvoss: mariogrip:it looks like the FP2 rev 9 might already be using Mir 0.19.3 (checking apt-cache)
<IZh> tvoss: But why it is not on the https://code-review.phablet.ubuntu.com/#/admin/projects/ page? What is the page containing all phone's packages?
<peat-psuwit> anpok: also, the buttons' mapping seems strange. For example when I press 'menu' button, I'll get character 'e'.
<ogra_> IZh, thats only the android container contents ... has nothing to do with the actual OS
<mariogrip> mhall119: Can you check /var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log
<IZh> ogra_: Ah... And is there the page about actual OS?
<mariogrip> mhall119: at the top it will say  the version
<ogra_> IZh, not really about the middle ware ... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers is there, but for the higher level (UI and all)
<IZh> ogra_: Thanks.
<popey> tonyp: did it install okay? I mean, do you see it in /opt/click.ubuntu.com/
<ogra_> IZh, there is a manifest file for the image contents at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/vivid/daily-preinstalled/current/vivid-preinstalled-touch-armhf.manifest ... but thats probably already to much detail again :)
<IZh> ogra_: And as I see, it's not the git but the bazar? :-)
<ogra_> IZh, well, launchpad recently got git support, so i assume over time projects might move ... today it is mostly bzr still though
<tonyp> popey: yes it is there
<peat-psuwit> anpok: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15112114/
<popey> tonyp: in .cache/upstart, is there a log for your app?
<popey> tonyp: which should detail why it failed to start
<peat-psuwit> anpok: at time 75.605520, I pressed the menu button, slide a finger up, and then release the finger. Then 'e' start to appear repeatedly in a text field.
<tonyp> popey: do you mean /cache/upstart ? I don't have that folder.
<popey> tonyp: no. in your home directory, ~/.cache/upstart
<popey> tonyp: or if you prefer /home/phablet/.cache/upstart
<popey> tonyp: try and start your app and then ls -ltr and look for most recent file
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Thank you for updating the donations page :) https://devices.ubports.com/#/
<mhall119> mariogrip: I see mir:android (version 0.19.3)
<mariogrip> mhall119: ok, it seems that still power/sleep issue
<mhall119> right, and not caused by the deadlock that was fixed in 0.19.2
<mhall119> tvoss: ^^ FYI
<tonyp> popey: can't find anything that looks relevant
<NwS> Oh come on!
<NwS> Meizu Pro 5 won't support convergence
<popey> NwS: depends on your definition of convergence
<popey> tonyp: can I have a copy of your click package and I'll take a look at it?
<tonyp> popey: what is the best way to send it to you?
<mhall119> oh, check this out: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nexdock-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop--2#/
<popey> tonyp: email, whatever, alan.pope@canonical.com
<popey> tonyp: got it
<popey> tonyp: capital letters in the name, get rid of those
<popey> davidcalle: the webapp generator allows people to create webapps which fail click-review - we should probably not let that happen
<popey> (convert capitals to lower case)
<tonyp> popey: just in the file name? or everywhere?
<popey> everywhere
<popey> it'll be inconsistent otherwise
<NwS> popey, I thought it will support convergence like the tablet will (haven't seen that either but yeah)
<popey> my point is that "convergence" doesn't just mean "does it do HDMI out?"
<popey> we're working on wireless display which would be another way to display stuff on a monitor
<NwS> Which could be ready in X time
<popey> There's plenty of bits and pieces which aren't quite ready, that's just one.
<_Sponge> popey, I just spoke to a web developer that said he's seen a Convergence Phone from India for $5 - have you heard 'bout this ?
<NwS> Dang I just noticed it is 5.7inch..
<NwS> I better get the tablet then lol
<ogra_> NwS, just get a cosmetic surgery on your thumb and have it streched
<NwS> ogra_, that could work I guess
<ogra_> evolution will make that happen anyway within the next few decades :)
<ogra_> so you are just ahead of time :)
<popey> _Sponge: I have seen PR about a phone for ~5$ for india
<popey> You get what you pay for.
<ogra_> wasnt that $3 ?
<ogra_> they nearly doubled the price since i heard of it !!!
<_Sponge> I'm eMailing that web developer for the link as we speak.
<popey> outrage!
<NwS> Are you talking about the Freedom phone?
<_Sponge> Can it do SMS though ?
 * mcphail searches the Ubuntu Store for the "beowulf cluster" app
<Stskeeps> ogra_: https://twitter.com/Joydas/status/700224507345182720 is the supposed phone.. sometimes you can go too far with preparing a demo :P
<tonyp> popey: that worked! Thank you.
<NwS> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGe9Hr_9YEU
<ogra_> Stskeeps, well, it is fine if you dont give the device out of your hand i guess ;)
<tonyp> popey: could do with a note on https://developer.ubuntu.com/webapp-generator/ that appname and Developer namespace need to be lower case.
<dobey> lol; white-out on the name
<_Sponge> http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/ringing-alarm-bells-could-freedom-251-befraud_5550541.html
<davidcalle> tonyp: Developer namespaces you register on myapps must be lower case, no? Regarding the app name, it can be any case you want.
<davidcalle> tonyp: not that it's a bad idea to say it explicitely, but still, I don't think there is a need for it.
<_Sponge> popey, Perhaps you could mention it on the Ubuntu-podcast, or have we missed it for another week ?
<popey> _Sponge: yeah, will add it to the news
<popey> davidcalle: check logs and see how many people submitted things with upper case name :)
<_Sponge> popey, cheers.
<Nycticebuscoucan> Hi Guys, since the OTA-9 one app (namely OSM Scout) crashes every time I press the download map button. But it began already to behave strangely before the update. Simple unistalling and reistalling did not change anything.  Do you think that a complete removing of the app (via the console?!) might change anything and if yes how can I do that? Otherwise would it be possible to somehow "unisntall" only OTA-
<Nycticebuscoucan> 9 without loosing data?
<tonyp> davidcalle: I didn't have to register a namespace - probably because I logged in using my launchpad id. So I just put in TonyP first time I generated the webapp.
<davidcalle> tonyp: oh, I see
<davidcalle> popey: logs? :)
<davidcalle> tonyp: then yeah, it should be clearer that you need a myapps account first. (well, if you want to submit to the store)
<dobey> Nycticebuscoucan: you could use system-image-cli on the phone to flash to a different image build #, but it's probably best to contact the developer of osm scout to get the issue fixed.
<timeax> Hallo peoples
<timeax> I'm trying to port ubuntu touch to my phone...but i'm noob...can somebody link me some guide for learn the basics on how to make a port?
<dobey> the porting guide is linked in the channel topic
<timeax> I already red the ubuntu touch porting guide but its not exactly for beginners
<timeax> I already setted up my pc
<timeax> Installed ubuntu on it
<dobey> it has links to xda iirc, which should provide some more help
<dobey> but really, yes, porting is an advancded thing. it's not a trivial task
<k1l_> uhh, porting is not a beginners task. you need some knowledge about how ubuntu, android and drivers work.
<dobey> the basics are pretty much "learn how to do things by building for an already ported device"
<timeax> I was able to make the first step of the ubuntu touch official porting guide
<timeax> But there are a lot of things i don't understand,i miss the basics knowledge to complete my port
<timeax> I was able to set up correctly my pc
<timeax> And launched the lunch program for make the build for nexus device
<timeax> Now i dont know what to do...
<timeax> I dowloaded the git of my phone
<taiebot> when will we get the new today scope!! following the marketing material http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/meizu-pro-5-chart-mixed-750x613.jpg it should get a revamped? It looks much better than what it is now
<timeax> Its a xiaomi mi2s,i spent my last day witing for the download finished but had fetching erros
<timeax> I dont wanna bore all of you for solving my problem,i just want ti solve them by myself
<timeax> So how can i learn all the basics parts for make the porting?
<taiebot> timeax you should ask mariogrip and have a look here https://forums.ubports.com/
<timeax> Tnx a lot taiebot
<dobey> i don't know what to do. i tried to build for nexus and it failed, so meh :)
<oSoMoN> mhall119, Iâm about to add two project ideas to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2016/Ideas#Ubuntu_Touch , itâs not too late, is it?
<oSoMoN> balloons, ^
<balloons> oSoMoN, not at all! Edit away :-)
<_Sponge> hi mariogrip
<mariogrip> hi
<mhall119> oSoMoN: is it keyboard shortcuts in the browser? :)
<_Sponge> i shall add 'nother $20 next week to the Iconia
<mariogrip> _Sponge: Thanks!
<mhall119> FWIW, I tried to fix my alt+# code for webbrowser-app, but I can't get the focus scopes right for it to work all the time, other then putting it where I originally did
<k1l_> on the browser a "swipe down for refresh" would be nice. like chrome on android does.
<oSoMoN> mhall119, the project ideas are not for keyboard shortcuts, but Iâll gladly ignore the fact that youâre not a student any longer, and mentor you :)
<oSoMoN> mhall119, how about we take some time to discuss your branch after the dust for MWC settles?
<oSoMoN> balloons, mhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2016/Ideas updated
<chloe> hi
<_Sponge> hi Guest96130
<mhall119> oSoMoN: I would appreciate that, I suspect I just need to grok FocusScope
<_Sponge> Hi OerHeks :)
<chloe123456> now i thing that username will not change...
<chloe123456> think*
<_Sponge> chloe123456: OK, all is well ?
<chloe123456> yep :3 (Not accustomed with Irc...)
<chloe123456> someone here have zenfone 5?
<chloe123456> (and sorry for my bad english)
<chloe123456> anyone?
<timeax> Somebody know how to fix the dimension of the emulator of ubuntu touch?
<chloe123456> no
<chloe123456> sorry
<mhall119> timeax: try asking in #ubuntu-app-devel
<timeax> Ok guys tnx
<timeax> Bye all peoples have a nice time ;)
<mariogrip> this seems to good to be true http://freedom251.com/ phone to 2 USD....
<mariogrip> 4 USD
<talonz> no convergence on meizu 5 pro just seems like a waste of time ;[  i hope Bq come up with something just as good but with convergence
<k1l_> mariogrip: the indian one?
<lpotter> no convergence on pro 5?
<k1l_> lpotter: no, the chip cant do mhl, iirc
<popey> gah
<mariogrip> k1l_: Yeah, i think it is. I just saw it in my local news
<popey> https://twitter.com/Joydas/status/700224507345182720 mariogrip
<popey> via Stskeeps above
<popey> apparently that phone
<talonz> the usb c connector can support mhl but meizu chose not to support it ;\
<popey> Saying "no convergence" on a phone is misleading. convergence isn't just "does it do HDMI"
<popey> It's way more than that
<talonz> if you cannot use convergence via usb and wireless convergence is not implimented yet then i would say theres no convergence
<k1l_> so its not soldered internally? or softwarewise?
<k1l_> i thought ubuntu guys were working on aethercast
<talonz> i do not know k1l_
<talonz> yeah they are working on some kinda cast solution and i hope they succeed so much better than dealing with wires
<mariogrip> popey: oh, that no cool... the phone seems to be in every norwegian news site
<k1l_> talonz: the chip in the bq phones could do mhl, but its not soldered on the devices.
<kki> hi
<popey> talonz: there's a ton of stuff that's not finished yet
<popey> even if you did have hdmi out, there's still a load of stuff that isn't complete. the "Convergence" story isn't finished yet
<popey> it's not like apple or google where the code gets thrown over the wall at WWDC or Google IO. We develop in the open, so while you can get a device today, tomorrow (or next month) you might get the wireless display
<popey> so again, saying "no convergence" is misleading
<popey> because the whole thing is "not yet", not "never"
<kki> is there anyone who can help me to recover my E5? I spent several hours to find solution, but i was not successful.
<talonz> yeah i know popey but selling a device to developers and enthusiasts with out the ability to explore convergence is upsetting
<mariogrip> kki: Do you want to fully reflash the device?
<kki> yes
<talonz> and yeah im sorry i should of used my words more acurately ... "the inablility to use convergence at launch..."
<mcphail> talonz: The more phones, the merrier imho. I don't mind if some will not (easily) support convergence as long as some will... eventually
<popey> i give up
<mariogrip> kki: Then reboot into bootloader (fastboot mode) and run ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu --bootstrap from your pc
<mcphail> talonz: the new meizu doesn't appeal to me, but if someone was looking to buy an Ubuntu phone as a phone (i.e. what I've been using the bq for for the past 10 months) it looks like a good bet
<mariogrip> kki: if that doesn't work try this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5-and-aquaris-e5
<dobey> mariogrip: the bq recovery image will also be required as documented on the devices wiki
<dobey> the recovery-vegetahd.img
<mariogrip> dobey: Yeah, i just saw that,
<mariogrip> kki: use the last link i sendt to you, that should work
<kki> mariogrip: I fond it too, but i get this error, and I can't foundout how to solve it: mkdir /root/.cache: permission denied
<talonz> mcphail: the 5 pro looks like a great phone and i will probably buy it soon but as i mentioned earlier not having convergence is a little disapointing. popey sorry if i frustrate you i dont hate just hope for so much more
<mariogrip> kki: try running it as sudo
<popey> sure, sorry
<k1l_> biggest issue is: to get more phones out in the wild.
<talonz> it has been a long time since an mobile operating system has truely excited me. sailfish and firefox got nothing on this
<popey> so far today I have seen complaints that the pro doesn't have a) convergence, b) wirless charging, c) fast charge, d) full-capability usb-c, d) removable battery....
<popey> everyone has their wishlist
<mcphail> talonz: if plugged-in convergence is important to you, wait a little longer and see if a new device supports it. If you're simply looking for a cool Ubuntu phone, it would be nice to support Meizu. I think it is cool both bq and meizu have gone for a 2nd device
<k1l_> microsoft only did this while paying a lot of money.  others completly failed at it. look at webos, or firefox os or jolla.
<popey> Personally I think it's nothing short of astounding that a tiny company like Canonical can do this
<k1l_> so every new phone is a good phone right now.
<kki> perfect, It is works, but i did it as root. so I don't understand
<kki> Thank you
<mariogrip> kki: np :)
<talonz> canonical is awesome
<k1l_> talonz: if you want a convergence capable phone by a used nesxus4 :)
<talonz> k1l_: i got a nexus 4 and love it but thanks
<talonz> mcphail: bq are on their 3rd device now with a 4th on the way ?
<mcphail> talonz: hope so
<popey> fingers crossed
<popey> I heard more devices were going to be demo'ed at MWC next week
<dobey> popey: i'm so upset the pro 5 doesn't have unicorns
<popey> I'm not, I hate unicorns
<dobey> k1l_: lol. i wouldn't say webos failed exactly.
<mcphail> talonz: I'd love an Ubuntu device with a Psion Series 5 form factor. I suspect I'm not ever going to get it, but I can dream ;)
<dobey> k1l_: more like, webos was murdered.
<k1l_> dobey: well, i got a hp touchpad tablet. so i would say: yes :)
<k1l_> dobey: i dont know what hp did think when selling that for the ipad prices.
<dobey> k1l_: that's a poor attitude to have
<k1l_> dobey: webos was quite good actually. but because the devices were way to expensive there wasnt enough users to get more developers to do apps etc. etc. and when the firesale went on everyone just wanted to put android on it.
<lpotter> as far as I know, pro 5 will have convergence, not through hdmi, but through Jedi mind tricks
<popey> mcphail: you can buy clip-on keyboards, I bought one for an iphone 4s, it was a bizarre experience
<dobey> k1l_: the devices were not that expensive. they were no more expensive than other phones.
<popey> be nice for someone to make a nice slimline clip on keyboard for an ubuntu phone, but that's only likely with very wide adoption
<dobey> would be nice for someone to make a phone that's a decent size, and has a built-in slide out keyboard
<k1l_> dobey: the touchpad was ipad pricerange back then.
<mariogrip> popey: are you going to mwc?
<popey> nope, I'm going to Embedded World next week
<popey> I'm not pretty enough to go to MWC :)
<mariogrip> popey: Awww, i'm sure you are :)
 * lpotter remembers when everyone wanted small phones
<k1l_> i have given up on wanting a qwertz slider smartphone :/
<dobey> k1l_: and your point is? if HP didn't kill everything, you'd be complaining the iPad was priced at the same point as the touchpad, instead.
<dobey> lpotter: it was 5 minutes ago
<popey> i still want a small phone
<lpotter> seems that way
<popey> iphone 4s was (IMO) the best form factor
<popey> but the OnePlus X is close
<popey> IMO
<lpotter> i feel the pro 5 is a bit too big, really. hard to navigate with one hand
<mariogrip> popey: the opo is perfect size, anything smaler than that is had to use
<mariogrip> hard*
<k1l_> dobey: no. hp priced it to high. that made sell it not good enough. then they pulled the  trigger and got rid of it in the firesale.
<popey> hah
<talonz> i loved and still love the n900
<popey> OPO feels like a door in my hands
<k1l_> dobey: ipad like pricing as a newcomer was the main issue, imho.
<popey> yeah, i loved the idea of the n900
<mcphail> popey: 7 inch screen, desktop mode and fold-out keyboard would be perfect for me
<popey> ditto
<popey> lets make a phone!
<mcphail> ha!
<mariogrip> like the bq 4.5 i have to have to have to phone 4cm from the face to see a youtube video
<dobey> k1l_: no. hp killed it all like the day after the touchpad was released
 * mariogrip cannot spell
<popey> i cant focus 4 cm from my face :)
 * popey is old
<k1l_> popey: i got used to my nexus6 better than i thought.
<popey> i bought a one plus x and love it dearly
<dobey> k1l_: main issue is that HP had no bloody idea what the hell they wanted to do
<mariogrip> popey: got ubuntu touch on that ;)
<k1l_> dobey: i totally agree on hp ruined it.
<lpotter> n950 was better than n900, imho
<lpotter> but I might be biased
<popey> mariogrip: i will when you port it ã
<popey> true
<popey> n950 was a really nice device
<lpotter> ya, sadly I had to turn in my dali when they fired us
<dobey> iphone 4s is probably the perfect size. it just needs to be a slider, and have a good OS on it
<mariogrip> popey: that's next on my list :) I kinda want to use that as my daily driver, it's so pretty :)
<talonz> lpotter: i never had the n950 ;[
<popey> :( lpotter
<popey> there's still a few canonicalers who hang on to their n9 and 950
<lpotter> it was actually ok, because the one I had had no bluetooth
<k1l_> dobey: it was one1,5 months after the touchpads start. yes, that is not enought time.
<lpotter> someone wanting a phone w/ keyboard could get a jolla with that keyboard TOH attachment
 * mcphail needs an Ubuntu device opening like this - https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/0*04pEuXPD9veCdeb7.gif
<dobey> lpotter: nope. that is awful
<lpotter> :)
<k1l_> the motorola milestone was quite nice. the locked bootloader was a pain.
<lpotter> dobey: never had the keyboard
<k1l_> mcphail: that looks like a lot is going to break
<mariogrip> lpotter: you could buy a 3D printer and make a mount for a bt keyboard and mount that on the phone
<mariogrip> :)
<popey> mcphail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5#/media/File:2005-04-16_Psion_Serie_5mx_PRO_24MB_beschn_unscharf_scharf.JPG
<popey> that kinda thing?
<popey> mariogrip: that would be awesome too
<mcphail> k1l_: you'd be surprised. There was a weak ribbon connector from body to screen which had a tendency to break, but post-hoc replacements fixed that flaw
<dobey> lpotter: i can't stand the sideways keyboards
<mcphail> popey: yep - you ever used one. Best keyboard on a PDA _ever_
<popey> no
<lpotter> I'm waiting for T9 keyboard
<dobey> eww
<popey> I bought an interesting portable device with a built in keyboard off ebay recently
<popey> runs on AA batteries...
<popey> Sinclair Z88 :)
<mcphail> I'd love a Z88!
<popey> its a hilarious device :)
<popey> when i got my Logitech K480 bluetooth keyboard it made me think of the Z88 and they're very similar sizes
<mariogrip> the question, will it run ubuntu touch
<popey> hah
<popey> I used to love writing Z80 assembler
<mcphail> I love anything with a Z80 chip, tbh.
<popey> ditto
<popey> i have 3 CPCs and a couple of speccys in the loft :)
<popey> wish I had a z80 co-pro for the bbc micro
<mcphail> I regret binning my speccy, but it did turn into a smouldering heap as I bodge-fixed the keyboard membrane...
<popey> heh
<mcphail> popey: you going to get a vega+ ?
<popey> tempted
<mcphail> I need to find some way to sneak that one past t'wife
<popey> Part of me wants to build a portable gaming device with a pi2, screen, joystick etc
<popey> but then realise I'll never get enough tuits
<popey> still watching that psion gif btw
<popey> much better than BBC QT
<mcphail> ooh - forgot about QT
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-19
<Eadrom> hello folks.  I'm about to install ubuntu touch for the first time an a N4.  Anything I should know before following the instructions here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<mariogrip> Eadrom: Maybe that it may wipe some data
<Eadrom> mariogrip, it's a new phone I bought specifically for ubuntu touch so I have no interest in anything on it (that I know of)
<mariogrip> then it's just to flash
<Eadrom> indeed
<Eadrom> was just curious if there was anything that would be useful to do or pull off the andorid OS prior to following the docs to flash ubuntu on it
<mariogrip> Eadrom: no, I don't think you need anything on the android OS (else than personal data, which you do not have since it brand new)
<mariogrip> Eadrom: The flash command set's up everything for you :)
<Eadrom> mariogrip, awesome! Thank you :)
<mariogrip> np :)
<cmerkert> looking for help to flash ubuntu-touch 14.09 .img files to nexus 7 2012 (grouper) just for testing of Ubuntu Touch. Anyone know how I can do that since it's not available in the channels anymore?
<Sneaky> Hello ?
<Sneaky> Anyone help me ?
<Sneaky> hi
<genii> Sneaky: Better to just state what your problem is, and see if anyone can assist
<Sneaky> i have a Soney E3 phone, But i cant find If i can run ubuntu touch
<genii> !ports
<ubot5> For instructions on how to set up port-forwarding (for games, torrents, webservers) see http://portforward.com - also see !firewall
 * genii smacks the bot
<Stanley00> cmerkert: you can try multirom for this case, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
<Eadrom> howdy again.  I'm having a spot of trouble w/ getting ubuntu touch loaded on my nexus 4.  everything going smoothly until the ubuntu-device-flash command.  Images are downloaded, phone reboots into ubuntu recovery and then terminal on my laptop outputs an error message "Failed to enter Recovery"
<Stanley00> Eadrom: it's ok, just wait when your phone finish
<Eadrom> on the phone, it looks like the ubuntu recovery image is running.  I've got a grublike looking menu with options like reboot, wipe data/factory reset, etc
<Eadrom> Stanley00, just let it sit at the recovery screen on the phone?
<Eadrom> the ubuntu-device-flash command has exited and is not running anymore in my terminal
<Stanley00> Eadrom: I'm not sure about N4, on my E5, when images are downloaded to phone, phone reboot to recovery mode, install the images, while ubuntu-device-flash exit with the error as yours
<Stanley00> Eadrom: but, in recovery mode, I saw a rolling circle, not the recovery menu <= that's the different part
<Eadrom> as I understand it, an ubuntu recovery image is installed, then the phone needs to boot to that recovery image, and then that recovery image installs the actual ubuntu touch os on the phone
<Eadrom> I think I'm getting stuck somewhere between the copy recovery image over and boot that recovery image
<Eadrom> I'm in some part of the ubuntu touch system though
<Eadrom> text in bottom left corner is "Ubuntu Touch (CWM-based) Recovery v6.0.4.6"
<Eadrom> reboot system now, wipe data/factory reset, wipe cache partition, backup and restore, advanced
<Eadrom> are the options I have
<Eadrom> advanced submenu shows option to reboot recovery, reboot bootloader, and power off
<Stanley00> Eadrom: I think you may need to run ubuntu-device-flash again then
<Eadrom> Stanley00, oh I've run it multiple times in an effort to see if there was anything to try.  I can very reliably boot to fastboot bootloader
<Eadrom> and I can kickoff the ubuntu-device-flash command w/o issues
<Eadrom> and the device will reboot to the recovery image, it's just that I don't get the option to boot into the ubuntu touch recovery image
<Eadrom> which I think is what is supposed to happen next
<Eadrom> this is the exact problem I'm having
<Eadrom> http://askubuntu.com/questions/582501/how-to-get-ubuntu-touch-recovery-to-boot-into-ubuntu-touch-on-nexus-4
<cmerkert> Stanley00: thanks, that seems to be getting me somewhere! Thanks for the advice!
<Stanley00> Eadrom: look like I cannot find any solution to this one either. Did you unlock your phone before flash (via sudo fastboot oem unlock) ?
<Eadrom> Stanley00, I did indeed.  followed every step and it all was going so well lol
<Eadrom> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
<Eadrom> that's the guide I've been using
<Eadrom> made it to step 3 of Install Ubuntu
<Eadrom> after that, ran into this issue
<Stanley00> Eadrom: I'm not sure if this is a good advice, but you can try flash with fastboot, you can get images here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/ <= do it at your own risk and good luck to you
<Eadrom> I'm re-flashing to android 4.2.2
<Eadrom> and will try again
<Eadrom> I seem to recall someone saying that I needed to downgrade android version prior to starting, but I don't remember what version they said
<dobey> Eadrom: flashing 4.4, booting to the setup wizard, then rebooting to fastboot and flashing with ubuntu-device-flash should get it to work
<Eadrom> dobey, setup wizard for...android (as in the first boot welcome, setup thing for android?)
<dobey> yes
<Eadrom> alrighty, I'll give that a shot dobey
<Eadrom> also, I'm using --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu
<Eadrom> is there a different channel I should be using?
<Eadrom> dobey, no joy.  same thing again (see for what I am seeing http://askubuntu.com/questions/582501/how-to-get-ubuntu-touch-recovery-to-boot-into-ubuntu-touch-on-nexus-4)
<dobey> Eadrom: you should probably be using stable channel
<dobey> and what exactly is the error?
<Eadrom> dobey, yeah that's what I've been using
<Eadrom> 2016/02/18 19:23:58 Failed to enter Recovery
<Eadrom> someone else was having this same issue (the askubuntu link) but never solved it
<dobey> Eadrom: and what happens when you go to advanced and choose reboot recovery?
<Eadrom> dobey, complete log for ubuntu-device-flash:  http://pastebin.com/hV8QWe4B
<eadrom> and I'm back on my desktop
<eadrom> victory!
<eadrom> flashing appears to have succeeded.  got to the next part and looks like ubuntu is installing now
<eadrom> thank you for the help dobey
<eadrom> oh, do I need an ubuntu one account to use stuff on ubuntu touch?
<Stanley00> eadrom: ubuntu software center will need that
<eadrom> Stanley00, turns out I already had an account from who knows when ago.
<eadrom> Stanley00, thank you for the help earlier as well :)
<Stanley00> eadrom: no problem, and btw, congratz your new ubuntu touch :3
<eadrom> thank you!  once I swapped over to an ubuntu install, everything worked perfectly (lol imagine that)
<eadrom> really really hope that tablet coming out next month ships to USA.  Signed up for notification when it comes available.  Going to buy one as soon as it's available if it ships here
<eadrom> am I able to create other users on my ubuntu touch phone? I'd like to be able to much about on the phone via SSH as a different user than phablet
<eadrom> I tried w/ a useradd and got a "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." error
<kki> maybe you have to remount,rw / before add user. But be careful to write your root partition
<kki> how can i install codecs to mediaplayer-app? I would like to watching movies but mkv is not supported.
<eadrom> this is nifty - http://daniel-beck.org/howto-install-click-packages/
<eadrom> oh nice.  I can edit the applicable overlay in /userdata and those files are rw so I can make changes to those
<eadrom> nifty
<eadrom> I think if you setup your user on another system, then copy over to the indicated files
<eadrom> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/amd64/libnss-extrausers
<eadrom> that'd let me create a new ssh user w/o having to much w/ rw /
<eadrom> *to muck
<mcphail> eadrom: interesting to see how far you get with that one. I don't know how much PAM and apparmor will let your new user do. Keep us posted ;)
<eadrom> yup, editing /userdata/system-data/var/lib/extrausers/{passwd,shadow} with the data copied over from my workstation's passwd and shadow file let me su to my new user
<eadrom> put my new user in the phablet group to prevent the need of making a new group
<eadrom> looks like I'll need to make a new group if I want to be able to ssh in
<pixel__> ping ogra_
<pixel__> i need some help with c++ file handling on the phone, i am trying to write something to a file but i get an error while trying to open the file
<pixel__> i can read from the file but i can't write. do i need special permissions to read/write from apps dir?
<mcphail> pixel__: what dir do you mean by "apps dir"?
<pixel__> mcphail, hi
<mcphail> pixel__: good morning
<pixel__> the current dir? from where i read all the game resources
<pixel__> it's the balls.briketa app
<mcphail> pixel__: app confinement on the phone is tricky. I presume you're trying to write to the app install location, which will not work
<pixel__> mcphail, yes i just want to save the current level
<pixel__> to lvl.ini
<mcphail> pixel__: have a look at the RUNTIME ENVIRONMENT section of https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/platform/guides/app-confinement/ which will tell you where you can read and write
<pixel__> mcphail, thanks, much! :D
<mcphail> pixel__: good luck ;)
<ogra_> pixel__, di you actually need a file ? QML offers a local storage interface in SQL ...
<pixel__> ogra_, it's c++ / SDL
<ogra_> ah
<pixel__> i'll port it to vulkan soon
<pixel__> JOKING!
<pixel__> i will not
 * mcphail wishes he understood why vulkan is getting everyone so excited
<ogra_> because of lava ?
<eadrom> I can now log in via ssh to my phone as my normal workstation username and not the phablet user
<eadrom> I did get an interesting "grep: /proc/cmdline: Permission denied" error though
<pixel__> mcphail, probably because they don't know what vulkan is :))
<popey> it's all about the FPS
<eadrom> popey !
<eadrom> popey, that's a good morning to you right?
<mcphail> I installed Vulkan and now I frag _all_ the noobs on CS:GO
 * mcphail never actually graduated beyond CS:S
<pixel__> a simple triangle in vulkan https://github.com/SaschaWillems/Vulkan/blob/master/triangle/triangle.cpp
<mcphail> pixel__: always nice to see a crossplatform API requiring #ifdef _WIN32
<pixel__> yeah :D
<mcphail> eadrom: so, does your new user work well? Or are lots of things blocked?
<eadrom> mcphail, I can write and chmod files in my home dir
<eadrom> can execute stuff like a python3 shell
<eadrom> I can ping google
<mcphail> eadrom: nice. Wonder if you can launch apps with your new user?
<eadrom> mcphail, like on the phone gui?
<mcphail> yep
<eadrom> I believe I'd have to logout as phablet and login as eadrom...hmmm I don't know if I could do that w/o some cli muckery
<eadrom> I'm actually fine w/ phablet as default GUI user
<eadrom> I wanted another user that I could use a kind of "let's muck around and see what all we can do" user
<eadrom> next step is to figure out how to add groups to my new user, such as sudo
<eadrom> I can escalate to root though if I need to
<eadrom> su to phablet
<ogra_> mcphail, you can likely exec apps as phablet via a lot of sudo hackery (to get the environment right)
<eadrom> to gain access to sudo, then I can sudo su to get a root shell
<ogra_> but then .... why not directly use phablet ? :)
<mcphail> ogra_: interested to see how the security model handles it. Always like to find out how something breaks
<ogra_> mcphail, if you sudo and have all the env vars properly set it will be have like you are the phablet user
<ogra_> *behave
<eadrom> I was able copy /etc/skel/.* over to my new user and now I have pretty ls output xD
<Stanley00> eadrom: sudo su is a bad idea, it should be sudo -i
<ogra_> (this is essentially what adb shell does internally, it runs as root and uses sudo to fire up the actual shell as phablet if you connect via adb shell)
<eadrom> still getting this odd grep error from /proc/cmdline.  I think if I can get my new user in the radio group, that error will go away.  it's not breaking anything as far as I can tell though
<ogra_> (just getting the env working correctly is very tricky since you need all vars from the running UI session (and it breaks horribly if your session restarts while you are logged in via adb))
<eadrom> yeah I'm working over SSH w/ my phone on wifi
<eadrom> I Read about some odd stuff when working w/ adb so just chose to use ssh
<ogra_> adb doesnt properly handle linux tty's and swallows some special chars (like ctrl-C) ... yeah, ssh is definitely more comfortable
<zzarr> hello! just a little question, is it possible to encrypt all private data on a Ubuntu touch powered phone?
<popey> not yet
<zzarr> okey, popey, but it is on the wish list?
<popey> yeah, has been forever
<eadrom> hmmmmm doesn't look like an easy way to add groups to a user
<eadrom> I wonder if extrausers will combine group info from /etc/group and the extrausers group
<eadrom> added users:x:100:eadrom to the extrausers/group
<eadrom> rebooting to see if anything changes
<eadrom> it does not, as expected
<zzarr> popey, okey, I see, I was just wondering, nothing else
<eadrom> I figured it out :)
<eadrom> I mounted /userdata/system.img via mount -o loop to a directory in /home/eadrom (as root)
<eadrom> and that has a lot of the base system, however here they were rw
<eadrom> edited the /etc/group in the system.img
<eadrom> reboot
<eadrom> and now my new user has sudo :)
<eadrom> though I presume that anything I change in /userdata/system.img will be undone when a new system.img is installed
<eadrom> unless the update process is also mounting that .img and changing the data as well
<kki> is there any office app which works on E5?
<eadrom> then at least only explicit changes to /etc/group would change that file and undo my edit
<eadrom> I love this phone lol
<eadrom> I can't wait to get my hands on that new tablet
<eadrom> and now my new user had all the permissions the phablet user has and that odd grep error has gone away when logging in via ssh w/ my new user
<ogra_> kki, the document reader can open all office documents
<r4fu5> hi guyz
<r4fu5> im plannin on buying a tablet 4 ubuntu touch... i know there is a fully documented hardware-compatibility list but can u guyz recommend some tablets? or brands especially?
<ogra_> the only supported one is the nexus7 2013
<ogra_> within 6 weeks oor so bq will start selling a 10" ubuntu tablet though
<r4fu5> alright thanx @ogra_
<r4fu5> benq?
<ogra_> no, bq
<ogra_> canonicals hardware partner
<r4fu5> ok u know the pricing
<ogra_> (one of them)
<ogra_> r4fu5, http://www.cnet.com/products/bq-aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition/
<ogra_> the android version is around 250â¬, i wouldnt expect the ubuntu one to be much more expensive
<ogra_> if you get a logitech k480 keyboard you can also use the thing as a laptop ;)
<ogra_> (or some similar kbd, just an example)
<V99_> ogra_ with X11 app compatibility?
<k1l> i got a BT keyboard already. just need the tablet :)
<ogra_> V99_, you have to re-pack them in a wrapper so they beciome click packages, but yeah thats possible
<ogra_> V99_, afaik things like firefox, libreoffice, xchat and gedit are even preinstalled
<svij> k1l: I only have the micro HDMI cable :P
<ogra_> thats like: i'm buying a car !!! I already have the wheel caps ...
<svij> :D
<k1l> we need to team up then :)
<svij> hehe
<_Sponge> A_bit more on the $3 dollar phone from India :  http://hackaday.com/2016/02/18/3-smartphone-from-india/
<bshah> -.-
<kki> no one missing native applications to read/edit documents? I'm frustrated a little bit this with brand new E5.
<ogra_> kki, again, try the document viewer, it opens all kinds of docs
<ogra_> (including libreoffice and MS office)
<kki> ogra, thanks
<se6> Hi
<se6> Is there an official app directory  somewhere? I only know the unofficial https://uappexplorer.com/
<lotuspsychje> se6: on your phone :p
<se6> Sure, but would be convient trough laptop! And uApp Explorer is not fully working right now.
<lotuspsychje> se6: found a list for the core apps only, but not sure there's an official for all apps, as their mixed
<se6> lotuspshychje: Thanks. Was looking for the source code of the app chessboard for example, it is GPL3, but seems I need to contact author to know where to find the code for it.
<lotuspsychje> se6: lemme look on my phone holdon
<se6> I have done it, but it has just email address
<lotuspsychje> se6: so email him?
<se6> Sure. Thanks.
<cimi> kenvandine, hey ken!! :)
<cimi> kenvandine, so your https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/unity8/share_data_uri_string/+merge/286676 - you sure we are supposed to support just a single string and not more than one?
<kenvandine> cimi, well in a preview you are generally only working with a single item right?
<kenvandine> cimi, and... the API sounds singular to me, shareData[uri]
<kenvandine> not uris
<kenvandine> sure we could make it handle multiples there, but the scope side needs to know it's an array
<kenvandine> cimi, is it possible for the preview to be showing multiple images?
<pstolowski> kenvandine, yes, see apps previews in Apps scope
<pstolowski> cimi, I think we agreed on supporting VariantArray there as well for multiple uris?
<kenvandine> ok, then the share-data API should be clear that it takes an array
<kenvandine> so rename uri to uris
<cimi> pstolowski, oh yeah answer is yes
<pstolowski> cimi, afair we wanted to allow a single string or array, up to scope author
<pstolowski> not sure about renaming to 'uris' though
<pstolowski> most scopes will be interested in a single uri
<kenvandine> i think if it expects and array, it should be uris
<kenvandine> if you can determine it's an array or string in QML, then cool
<pstolowski> the point is it should accept a single string (expected for 99% of scopes), but then also deal with array of strings
<cimi> pstolowski, or nor creating an array with a single string inside?
<pstolowski> cimi, yeah, the idea was we don't require scope to create an array with single string if it only wants a single strin
<pstolowski> g
<kenvandine> ok, well the code that was there always assume it was an array
<sistemx> Hello, can any body help with install bacon2d to ubuntu sdk?
<kenvandine> hey sistemx
<kenvandine> sistemx, i saw i missed you in #bacon2d the other day
<sistemx> I follow this link http://bacon2d.com/docs/ubuntu-touch-getting-started.html
<sistemx> zes
<kenvandine> sistemx, yeah, that was for the older ubuntu sdk
<sistemx> yes
<kenvandine> try installing ubuntu-sdk-bacon2d
<sistemx> Do zou mean sudo apt get_
<sistemx> ?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> ubuntu-sdk-ide looks for templates in a different directory, so i've packaged those in ubuntu-sdk-bacon2d
<sistemx> but my system doesn't know it
<sistemx> need any ppa?
<kenvandine> it's in the bacon2d-team ppa
<sistemx> ok wait
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/~bacon2d-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<genii> mmm bacon
<kenvandine> yum
<sistemx> I am not sure what is wrong, but still nothing, I try remove and add repositorz again
<sistemx> and nothing
<sistemx> don't know ubuntu-sdk-bacon2d
<kenvandine> sistemx, which ubuntu release are you on?
<sistemx> 14.04 Trusty
<kenvandine> sistemx, oh!
<sistemx> 64bit
<kenvandine> that version isn't built for trusty
<kenvandine> hang on
<sistemx> I see, so what? Install 15.04
<kenvandine> sistemx, nah, i'll get a trusty build of that in the ppa
<sistemx> is it enough
<kenvandine> give me a few minutes
<sistemx> ok
<kenvandine> sistemx, i've uploaded a trusty version to the ppa, give it a few minutes to build and get published
<kenvandine> 30 minutes or so
<kenvandine> sistemx, or you can download the deb and install it
<kenvandine> https://launchpad.net/~bacon2d-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/9038528/+files/ubuntu-sdk-bacon2d_3.1.1+15.04.20151218-0trusty1_all.deb
<sistemx> I will try download and install, really many thanks for help. I checked internet and many instructions and nothnig...
<kenvandine> sistemx, sorry about that, i should update the docs to reflect the new package name
<sistemx> Great, it works now. Once again thanks :) So ican start do something for ubuntu touch....
<kenvandine> sistemx, that's great!
<kenvandine> sistemx, let me know if you have any questions as you get developing
<kenvandine> sistemx, i'm usually in #bacon2d if you want to talk games
<sistemx> I am nube about that, I try Gdevelop before, but games go slow down when use physics etc.. So I want try bacon...
<sistemx> Bacon is native, everything could smooth
<sistemx> If I will have big troubles, I will contact you. Any way thanks for that...
<kenvandine> sistemx, no problem, yeah physics should be smooth
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-presents-sony-xperia-z1-and-oneplus-one-as-ubuntu-phones-500658.shtml
<mcphail> http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/02/18/zfs-licensing-and-linux/ - that is sailing pretty close to the wind. To state that a kernel object is not a derivative work of the kernel is _one_ interpretation
<k1l> ask 5 people about it and you get 7 results :)
<dobey> wait what?
<dobey> mcphail: feel free to demand nvidia release the source for their drivers :)
<mcphail> dobey: posted this to the wrong channel ;/
 * mcphail didn't mean to stir up any hornets in #ubuntu-touch
<popey> heh
 * popey wonders where mcphail did plan to stir hornets
<_Sponge> mariogrip: Sent you an eMail (gmail). Also please add the Microsoft Lumia 640 to the list, cheers.
<popey> _Sponge: Microsoft phones are gonna be way harder to port to.
 * ahoneybun thinks mariogrip  should have been taken to MWC
<lgp> hi
<lgp> got a BQ aquaris phone with ubuntu
<eadrom> grats lgp I got my nexus 4 flashed last night
<eadrom> i love it so far
<dobey> ahoneybun: i'm sure he accepts patches ;)
<mariogrip> _Sponge: I don't think Microsoft devices is possible manly due to blobs (drivers) and that's it has no open source... Even if it's possible it would be damn hard to do, so I think I stay with android devices...
<mariogrip> ahoneybun: I got invited, but I sadly could not go
<_Sponge> mariogrip: ping
<_Sponge> mariogrip ping
<_Sponge> mariogrip ping
<matv1> does an app developer see how many downloads from the store his app gets?
<mcphail> matv1: yes - from the ubuntu myapps site
<matv1> mcphail ok thanks
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-20
<zikalify> Are the ports mentioned in this article available yet or being made available during MWC? https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/02/19/community-collaborates-on-new-convergent-ubuntu-phones/
<jabawok> <popey> be nice for someone to make a nice slimline clip on keyboard for an ubuntu phone, but that's only likely with very wide adoption
<jabawok> +1
<jabawok> <dobey> would be nice for someone to make a phone that's a decent size, and has a built-in slide out keyboard
<jabawok> +2
<eadrom> I'm going to be hunting for a case+keyboard combo thing for my tablet next month
<eadrom> something like this:  http://www.mobilefun.com/47755-encase-wireless-bluetooth-tablet-keyboard-case-9-10-inch.htm
<eadrom> would be absolutely fantastic
<jabawok> meh not a big fan of keyboards without moving parts
<jabawok> but yeah.. missed the N900 conversation yesterday
<jabawok> i'm still running a N900 (and an E5)
<jabawok> i'm slowly moving to the BQ E5 as it becomes more and more capable
<jabawok> really still cant do without the N900 till someone writes some nice xmpp support for ubuntu touch
<jabawok> and vncviewer
<DerTeufel> Hi all
<DerTeufel> Is this the channel for ubuntu phone compiling questions?
<DerTeufel> I just read the guide, and it seems to be very straightforward
<DerTeufel> However I am wondering, if there isn't a 5.x repository
<jabawok> stay in channel for possible answer DerTeufel, this channel most active in a few more hours time
<DerTeufel> OK. Thanks
<sistemx_> Hello, can anybody help me with install bacon2d? I aleardy install it to ubuntu sdk, but when I click to play, on phone show me only white screen and debug show me that Loading module: 'libubuntu_application_api_touch_mirclient.so.3.0.0' qrc:///main.qml:2:1: module "Bacon2D" is not installed
<sistemx_> Failed to parse "/var/lib/schroot/chroots/click-ubuntu-sdk-15.04-armhf/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/plugins.qmltypes
<Flohack> Good Morning!
<Flohack> I need some help with a bugreport on the phone
<Flohack> I got a .crash file, I can call ubuntu-bug to upload it but what next?
<Flohack> apport-collect is also not available, since I filed already a manual Launchpad bug
<Flohack> How can I attach the report to launchpad entry?
<FSX> Good morning
<Flohack> morning
<Flohack> ;) can you help me with a bug report
<Frozen_> Hi, I have a problem with permissions to run a web server on ubuntu touch.
<Frozen_> Errors:
<Frozen_> PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/mime.types'
<Frozen_> Sdk-Launcher> There has been a AppArmor denial for your application. Sdk-Launcher> Most likely it is missing a policy in the AppArmor file. Syslog> Feb 20 10:56:52 ubuntu-phablet kernel: [ 1688.321282] type=1400 audit(1455962212.426:58): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mknod" profile="uair.michal0468_uair_0.1" name="/opt/click.ubuntu.com/uair.michal0468/0.1/uair/werkzeug/__pycache__/urls.cpython-34.pyc.2852692448" pid=10375 comm=
<Frozen_> Can you help me?
<Flohack> Not many people write anything here...
<Flohack> Im waiting for an answer already 1 hr ;)
<Frozen_> :/
<Flohack> Its awkward I am trying to report a bug from my Ubuntu Phone but I see no way getting it into Launchpad or linking it with an existing bug
<ogra_> Flohack, theer is a link in the channel topic .... also you''ll have more luck during the week
<Flohack> I know I followed the link already but
<Flohack> apport will tell me to enter additional onf in the browser, which of course does not open on the phone
<Flohack> Ok I try next week
<ogra_> Flohack, ah, well, just use the web form and file it against the canonical-system-images project then ... describe what happens and people will just dort it into the right bucket
<Flohack> Basically I have filed in the telegram package already but I wanted to attach the crash report
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+filebug
<Flohack> which I cant do manually it seems
<ogra_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+filebug?noredirect
<ogra_> try that one
<Flohack> Ok I will try
<kki> Hi! I've installed chromium-browser on E5, but the keyboard is no launched. Is someone solved this issue?
<peat-psuwit> anpok: ping
<anpok> peat-psuwit: hi
<anpok> yeah looked at your event log
<anpok> and that is indeen interesting
<anpok> as far as i understand the touch screen driver tries to indicate that the key press is canceled by sending 255 as a release-cancel code...
<anpok> peat-psuwit: it would be good if you create a bug report mentioning the device and the event log .. then I will investigate whether we have to add that to libinput and mir event structures - and thus to downstream toolkits.. or we find another solution...
<anpok> usually press release is just 1 and 0.. for keys..
<peat-psuwit> anpok: Ok, I'll do that.
<peat-psuwit> anpok: Anyway I've tried to hack libinput to understand that any value that isn't 1 will be considered release. And it seems to work well.
<peat-psuwit> anpok: What package should I file bug against? libinput?
<mimecar> hi
<peat-psuwit> anpok: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libinput/+bug/1547864
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1547864 in libinput (Ubuntu) "libevent doesn't handle EV_KEY event with a value of 255 (BUTTON_CANCLED)" [Undecided,New]
<anpok> peat-psuwit: yes .. thanks
<Fantome> Hello !
<mahen> i bought a dell vostro laptop 3558. i am not able to create my account. only being allowed access as guest. please help.
<mahen> anybody ?
<Fantome> ^^
<Fantome> One here
<mahen> hi
<Fantome> (not from staff huh, justa  user)
<mahen> can u help
<Fantome> Don't realy want to say stupid things ^_^ Whats is the os ?(ubuntu i guess ?)
<mahen> yes
<Fantome> got it from factory ? there is no data on it ?
<Fantome> ?
<ogra_> mahen, support for non-phone installs is in #ubuntu
<mahen> purchased from online shop
<mahen> ubuntu 14.04 LTS
<ogra_> this channel is for the phone/tablet OS, please go to #ubuntu instead
<mahen> ok
<Fantome> A simple question (and trycky one :) ): Does ubuntu phone collect your data (in the windows and android style) ?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> (simple answer :) )
<ogra_> it sends core dumps by default (which you can turn off in the settings), scopes have location detection turned on and can request data from online resources based on that (you can turn that off too) ... thats about it ...
<Fantome> Humm, no selling private info so...
<Fantome>  i think il try it on my 'old' nexus4 ...
<ogra_> beyond that ... apps can indeed do what they want regarding the net but they cant access any system data to data from other apps. and no app can access any hardware resources without telling you with a popup
<Fantome> Well thanks Ogra for the answer !
<ogra_> :)
<Fantome> My other question (hehe) is the os frequently updated ? (is it a main goal of canonical) or is it a side project with only 1 intern working on it ;') ?
<ogra_> every 6 weeks usually
<ogra_> (sometimes it slips by a week or so if there are harder bugs to fix)
<Fantome> Ok so still active project (can't see any news for the ubuntu touch and was wondering where it was going)
<ogra_> wow, you cant see any news ?
<ogra_> there are three new phones being announced at MWC next week .... and a tablet that can turn into a laptop or full PC
<ogra_> the news should actually be full of it :)
<Fantome> Ohhh
<Fantome> my bad lets forget i said that...
<ogra_> heh
<Fantome> Well thanks again for the info (and not killing me for my stupidity)
<Fantome> Hope the install will go smothly with the tutorial :)
<svij> ogra_: three new phones? That new to me.
<ogra_> two community ones and the new meizu
<svij> ah, counting community ones. :)
<svij> you little cheater. :P
<ogra_> :)
<ment0s_> Hello
<ment0s_> could someone tell me what would be the reason for camera not working in oneplusone ? Is this because of proptiery drivers or something else, if so, is there a way to simply load android drvers for ubuntu touch ? I just want linux on oneplus one so I can install motion on it and use it as cctv
<ogra_> most likely because the HAL layer hasnt been proted to be used with libhybris yet (which is how ubuntu talks to the HW layer)
<ogra_> the camera service is usually special here and needs extra work
<ment0s_> ogra_: right, so other handsets have camera working like nexus 4 and 5. Would this mean that the drivers are there but camera app isnt working ?
<ogra_> it means the camera app cant talk to the camera service yet ...
<ogra_> ubuntu phones use a minimal android container that contains the hardware abstraction layer from android (binary drivers and a few services to configure them and make them work) ... the ubuntu install can talk to that container though a lib called libhybris ... the camera service in the container needs to be taught to accept data from that
<ment0s_> right, so If I just need to access /dev/camera0 with motion and drivers are there I could possibly have it working ?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> the camera app does not directly use /dev/camera0 but talks to libhybris
<ogra_> (like all of the system)
<ment0s_> ogra_: ok so there is no chance to simply record from /dev/camera0  or port some programs to use device. In another words there is no /dev/ device that would allow camera to be recorded by programs in shell ?
<ogra_> no app can directly access any hardware in ubuntu. no
<ogra_> well, from the terminal you can perhaps hack around ...
<ment0s_> ogra_: hmm, I give it a try thanks :)
<ogra_> (i doubt accessing the device directly will work without having the cameraservice from the container actually turn it on )
<ment0s_> ogra_: hmm, any hints how could I enable it ?
<ogra_> nope, no idea, not an area i ever worked in
<ment0s_> thanks
<ment0s_> ok, so flashing bacon using command ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed --device=bacon --bootstrap , rebooted to bootloader, all I can see is the .cache/ubuntuimages/pool/device-ad2cea1ffd411b021f0e8699e391e877dacc2da4aea2262d93032ba6944920c1.tar.xz as last line output from terminal. xz was running for a sec and now I can see fastboot
<ment0s_> is in top. Does this mean its flashing ? I can see any progress or anyting
<ment0s_> is there like verbose for ubuntu-device-flash ?
<kki> after finish uploading files, it's going to reboot recovery to flash, and progress bar will be show the progress
<sistemx> Hello, I have still problem with install bacon2d, can somebody help? I am desperate :(
<ment0s_> kki: ok thanks, I had missing udev rules so fastboot couldnt see device.
<sistemx> Hello, I have still problem with install bacon2d, can somebody help? I am desperate :(
<ment0s_> ok so flashed on bacon, went into recovery to flash, recovery is just oneplus one logo, adb can access it, at first it was running xz in processes but now it doesnt run any process for flash I think and just sits there. should i ADB reboot manually ?
<ment0s_> ok reboot did it. I must say this ubuntu-touch is looking good so far. I was sceptical at first but I can see it works faster than android on baconj
<Fantome> Hello (/hello back ) !
<mimecar> hi Fantome
<Fantome> Did my install on my nexus 4 A new ubuntu touch is born :) !
<mimecar> that is good
<taiebot> Welcome Fantome
<mimecar> At first may seem a little strange ubuntu touch
<Fantome> eveything seems to be working (was quite surprised from the native browser (expected to see firefox))
<taiebot> taiebot wish for an update which will speed up start up of apps.
<Fantome> Hum, just have to remove this horrible haptic feedback that everyone loves :')
<Fantome> Nice base, still work to do (just freezed going  in the ringtones of the phone :') )
<Eru> hello, I'd like to ask if OTA 9.5 is already out, because from my BQ E5 it says there aren't any new updates
<Eru> and I can't find any news from the internet
<Fantome> Well, good evening !
<mimecar> Has anyone read the book The ubuntu user interface phone and has algunda questions or suggestions?
<mimecar> I would like to know the chapters to add to or correct errors book
<mimecar> "The user interface of Ubuntu Phone" :p
<stakewinner00> which book is that?
<mimecar> https://www.gitbook.com/book/mimecar/ubuntu-phone-ui/details
<mimecar> it is related withth euser interface
<mimecar> is a work in progress
<stakewinner00> mimecar, voy a ver
<mimecar> the book is in english and in spanish
<stakewinner00> i know
<rh300zx> hello all can anyone help me with proting touch nee some pointers
<rh300zx> porting sorry
<rh300zx> i have vs985 locked bootloader but think i can bump the boot
<rh300zx> i followed the guide and secure boot crashed it have it fixed now on cm13 with twrp
<rh300zx> i want to try another build but want to make sure im building correctly
<rh300zx> then bump boot before flash
<rh300zx> anyone willing to help me out itd be greatly appreciated
<moritz31> hey guys i have an easy question, is it possible to setup an ubuntu-touch dev environment unter debian ?
<moritz31> no one ?
<Spacedogg_iie> hi guys, my BQ 4.5 froze, how can i reboot it?
<Elleo> Spacedogg_iie: holding down the power button should cause it to power off
<Spacedogg_iie> nope :(
<Spacedogg_iie> ... yep
<Spacedogg_iie> lol
<Spacedogg_iie> it works now! lolol
<Spacedogg_iie> thanks
 * Spacedogg_iie is dumbass I guess
#ubuntu-touch 2016-02-21
<rh300zx> anyone here familiar with porting to new device and willing to help me out ?
<besneatte> I did a google nexux 4.... it was super easy, just followed the guide
<rh300zx> yes but your trees are available i need to build for vs985 and bump oot
<rh300zx> boot sorry
<besneatte> gotcha... I am sure someone here can help you... i have found many answers here :)
<rh300zx> i have built env... i need to figure out whether i can extract from my cm13 or if i should revert to stock kk and extract
<rh300zx> i have built but obtained secure boot error when i flashed cause i didnt bump boot img. but wasnt sure if it was ok to extract trees blobs etc from cm13
<jabawok> cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
<jabawok> 100
<jabawok> ..
<jabawok> say wha ?
<jabawok> anyone know what the thinking is there?
<Mikaela> If I understand that correctly, it means to always use swap and only when it's full move to RAM, but that doesn't make sense to me
<anpok> jabawok: just how aggressively the kernel tries to move virtual memory to swap
<anpok> jabawok: is that on ubuntu touch?
<anpok> that would fit the scenario .. limited memory.. fast application starts.. and applications that not in focuus get lifecycled anyhow..
<sistemx> Hello, can anybody help with install bacon2d?
<sistemx> Hello, can anybody help with install bacon2d? I try make, deb but nothing
<sistemx> no any errors, but in create new project missing bacon
<mimecar> I have not work with bacon2d, sorry
<sistemx> but as I know, it is only this way how to make game isn't it?
<mimecar> have you ask on the mailing list?
<mimecar> there're developpers can hel you
<sistemx> This way I don't know
<mimecar> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
<sistemx> Thanks, I will try...
<mimecar> you can ask also on this channel...
<sistemx> It looks like noby use bacon
<sistemx> I can not get answers :(
<mimecar> it is sunday
<mimecar> and not all the users are conected
<sistemx> It is right, I try install it almost 1 week, I am desperate
<mimecar> sistemx, Have you sent the message to the mailing list?
<sistemx> not yet
<Smurphy> anyone has news on when the OTA9.5 will be released ?
<mimecar> it will be released this Wednesday
<mimecar> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg18383.html
<Smurphy> Cool. :)
<CryptoManiac> Which phone is currently the most high-end for Ubuntu phone?
<k1l_> CryptoManiac: the upcomming mx 5 pro
<FSX> Do you guys know if it's possible to use the SDK on other distrobutions too?
<CryptoManiac> k1l_: Is that the one by Meizu?
<k1l_> CryptoManiac: yes
<CryptoManiac> interesting
<CryptoManiac> and very tempting
<CryptoManiac> but the Samsung Galaxy S7 will be out sooner
<CryptoManiac> :-(
<ogra_> will it ?
<k1l_> CryptoManiac: you could buy the samsung and port ubuntu touch to that :)
 * ogra_ hasnt seen any finalized release date for the S7 ... 
<ogra_> (unboxing and presenting doesnt mean "in hands of customers" ... if you got after that, meizu was even earlier (last week) with the ubuntu phone ;) )
<ogra_> s/got/go/
<latestnickname> I tried to build ubuntu touch, and am following the guide on wiki.ubuntu
<latestnickname> however, everytime I try to sync, I get the message:
<latestnickname> error: Cannot fetch aosp/device/asus/grouperMiB | 15.83 MiB/s
<latestnickname> error: Exited sync due to fetch errors
<latestnickname> ERROR:phablet-dev-bootstrap:Error while trying to sync repository
<latestnickname> Does somebody know what to do?
<dhbiker> so
<dhbiker> Meizu Pro 5 got announced
<dhbiker> as i suspected
<dhbiker> hopefully the battery life will be better than on the mx4
<dhbiker> xD
<mcmic> Hello
<mcmic> How can I access the sdcard of the phone from a computer Iâm connected to through USB?
<popey> over mtp
<popey> we do that by default
<mcmic> (Computer runs GNU/Linux with KDE, I can see the internal memory alright)
<mcmic> hum
<mcmic> I see the internal memory but not the SD
<popey> what device?
<mcmic> I formated the SD to ext4 and put it in the phone and reboot
<popey> ah
<mcmic> bq E4.5
<popey> that's why then
<popey> it won't be automounted if it's ext4
<mcmic> Ok
<popey> not sure it would show up even if you did mount it, not tried that
<mcmic> At first I formated it with the phone, it did vfat and I couldnât copy some file to it, because of vfat limitation on file names
<mcmic> So I formated with the PC to ext4 thinking ubuntu should have no problem with it
<popey> it has no problem, just not the assumed default
<mcmic> ok
<mcmic> If I go into the SD card manager it behaves as if the SD was mounted
<mcmic> But I do not trust this app as I had problem with it before
<Smurphy> mcmic: yes, but probably belongs to root, not user phablet
<mcmic> Smurphy: Oh, the ext4 filesystem?
<Smurphy> and then, you can't write data to it.
<Smurphy> mcmic: yes.
<Smurphy> :L}
<Smurphy> :}
<mcmic> Smurphy: How can I fix this?
<Smurphy> got onto the device, and make sure the sdcard is mounted with uid phablet.
<mcmic> Smurphy: What are the command for this?
<mcmic> I got terminal app and root access if needed
<Smurphy> mcmic: Go onto the phone, and change the UID to the one of phablet - on the device.
<Smurphy> /dev/mmcblk1                                  30G   29G  1.3G  96% /media/phablet/937A-CE7C
<Smurphy> cd /media/phablet/937A-CE7C
<Smurphy> chown phablet.phablet -R .
<Smurphy> Should do the trick.
<Smurphy> I'm using vfat on it. Easier :}
<mcmic> I got no /media/phablet :-/
<Smurphy> then it is not mounted.
<Smurphy> Make a "sudo dmesg" - should tell you what device name the sdcard has.
<mcmic> Smurphy: Any word I can grep to narrow it down?
<Smurphy> checking
<Smurphy> sudo dmesg | grep mmcblk
<Smurphy> Should do it - if the phone does not run for too long yet.
<mcmic> itâs  /dev/mmcblk1
<mcmic> partition is same with p1 at the end
<mcmic> Smurphy: Iâm supposed to mount it where? Itâs not in fstab so just mount does not work.
<Smurphy> Thing is - if you mount it manually, the sym=links which are required will not be set, and the apps won't find the sdcard/storage space.
<Smurphy> IMHO - you should let the device format it.
<Smurphy> as vfat.
<Smurphy> What problems did you have ?
<mcmic> Smurphy: Could not copy my music because some songs have question marks or quote in the name
<mcmic> Itâs so stupid ext4 is not supported in the same way as vfat.
<mcmic> I think Iâm gonna let it go for no
<mcmic> now*
<Smurphy> I have no problems with that.
<Smurphy> I bet you are using a specific charset. Are you coming from Mac OS-X ?
<mcmic> Just copy some music on the internal memory and open a ticket on the bug tracker for proper ext4 support
<mcmic> Smurphy: No, ArchLinux with KDE
<Smurphy> And where did you get the music from ?
<mcmic> Several places obviously
<mcmic> But most of it got renamed by picard
<mcmic> Any way, I give up on this battle for today, itâs getting late here
<mcmic> Smurphy: popey: thanks for the help
<mcmic> Have a good day
<timeax> Hello peoples :)
<mimecar> hello timeax
<timeax> Hi mimecar,can u help me? Im trying to port ubuntu touch on mi xiaomi mi2s
<timeax> But i'm having some troubles
<mimecar> I have not experience with ports
<mimecar> but you can ask your questions to the channel
<timeax> Ok tnx anyway ;)
<timeax> Is there somebody who can help me in porting ubuntu touch on my device?
<dobey> !ask | timeax
<ubot5> timeax: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<timeax> Ok guys,sry for fhe mistake ;)
<old_benz> just wondering if anyone has attemped to port a qualcomm 810 device?
<old_benz> also where can I find more information about the xperia z1 port?
<asdas> Hi, all
<asdas> I have problem with permission on Ubuntu Touch.
<asdas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15164534/
<asdas> my app armor file:
<asdas> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15164557/
<asdas> Can you help me?
<asdas> jdstrand: ?
<lynxis> does ubuntu touch have a packages.ubuntu.com thing somewhere?
<lynxis> I'm looking for perl MIME/Base64.pm which isn't included into the perl package like on desktops. syncevolution needs it in order to know the differences between the remote and local stores.
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-13
<drpresident> i need some help with nexus 4 mako
<drpresident> ive been trying to get ubuntu touch on it for a couple days now, and cant get past the ubuntu recovery.
<drpresident> after running ubuntu-device-flash, it installs, restarts to recovery, but quits when it doesnt see my device in recovery mode, then my device boots back to android.
<drpresident> I think the main problem is my computer not recognizing the phone when its in recovery mode, but I cant figure out how to fix it
<drpresident> i would love any suggestions, im running out of ideas
<dobey> drpresident: flash android 4.4 stock, boot to android, reboot to bootloader, and then do ubuntu-device-flash with --bootstrap; my guess is you have newer android installed, and there's a conflict between what ubuntu needs and what you have
<drpresident> ok ill give that a try, but I believe ive tried with both 4.4 and 4.2
<drpresident> is 4.4 the optimal version for installing ubuntu?
<dobey> 4.4 is what the ubuntu image is based on
<drpresident> alright thanks
<drpresident> does it make sense that having the wrong android version would allow it to boot ubuntu recovery, but not be shown wih lsusb?
<dobey> not sure why that would be
<drpresident> yeah cant get it to show on debian, ubuntu, or windows 7
<drpresident> so after i flash ubuntu, it quits after "waiting for device to enter recovery"
<dobey> maybe try different usb port or cable too
<dobey> anyway, i need to go
<dobey> good luck
<drpresident> alright thanks for the help!
<daker> dobey: hi you are right about the push notification stuff, not sure why but the app was installed using the IDE, but once launched inside the phone using the IDE, i got the token and the notification was sent to the phone
<dobey> daker: cool. not sure why the apparmor was messing up before
<daker> dobey: i guess it's the IDE
<studio_> hi all
<studio_> hmm, is ubuntu-touch dead meat? so, why?
<studio_> i am confused about that ...
<studio_> didn't the developers hear about the users problems?
<studio_> come on bots, what was the problem?
<studio_> ;)
<studio_> sil2100, onother bot left the room ...
<studio_> how many bots are still there?
<studio_> dobey, orga_,popey are your still here ?
<dobey> no
<studio_> lol :)
<studio_> comon, is the "project" dead?
<dobey> no
<studio_> new devices - new ubuntu touch?
<dobey> that's not a sentence
<studio_> so what is the sentence?
<dobey> i can't read your mind. i don't know what you're trying to ask. please formulate a question as a grammatically valid sentence
<studio_> I try to ask, are all old ubuntu-touch devices eol = dead?
<dobey> canonical/ubuntu does not make devices though. manufacturers decide when new devices will happen, not us
<dobey> was there some announcement that said those devices are now EOL?
<studio_> canonical need a new kernel, for exp. for the bq e4.5 - here is a new kernel: https://github.com/Pablito2020/alps_kernel_bq_krillin
<studio_> so where is the problem for a new ubuntu-touch version for the bq e4.5?
<dobey> it is impossible to have any amount of reasonable discussion with you
<genii> BQ is the one who makes releases for the Aquarius line, not Canonical
<dobey> the e4.5 is quite old, the fact it hasn't been EOLed already, and has been getting updates, is a better record than most all android devices
<dobey> but no, it's not likely that the e4.5 will get a major update to a 16.04 snappy based image.
<studio_> genii, so why nobody is helping this private person? he released a new linageos https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6w8rvoi1nudc1VJOFA2d3BOZGs
<dobey> it's a very old device at this point
<studio_> with a new kernel
<dobey> ask him; this channel isn't about "linageos"
<dobey> or lineageos
<studio_> ehm, but canonical allways tells, it needs a new kernel for the bq e4.5/e5.0 ...
<dobey> no
<dobey> i'm pretty sure the claim is that a newer kernel and arm64 are going to be necessary for officially supported snappy core based images for phones/tablets
<studio_> no? so new os, core/snappy is still running on the bg e4.5/e5.0?
<dobey> please stop running in circles
<studio_> circle? there is no wiki about that on ubuntu ...
<dobey> yes. you asked a question and had it answered. and then you try to ask the same question in a different way. and you keep doing it. it's part of the reason you got banned numerous times before.
<studio_> dobey, where id i ever asked about running bq e4.5/e5.0 with snappy/core, are you kidding???
<dobey> *sigh*
<studio_> yeah :(
<studio_> hope your investor is willing to pay you without any ssuccess ... you'll never find a better job ...
<studio_> :(
<k1l_> studio_: what about you stop insulting the users and developers. that doesnt help but only gets you banned again. we had this too often with you already
<studio_> k1l_, ich wÃ¼rde gerne helfen. aber man will sich hier nicht helfen lassen. Da kannst Du mosern wie du mÃ¶chtest, das letzte OS ist halt fÃ¼r das BQ E4.5: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6w8rvoi1nudc1VJOFA2d3BOZGs und das hat halt einen neuen Kernel!
<dobey> use english please
<studio_> new kernel for BQ E4.5  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6w8rvoi1nudc1VJOFA2d3BOZGs
<studio_> :)
<k1l_> studio_: you are not helping when you insult others or putting them under pressure.
<dobey> no it is not
<dobey> kernels for bq devices come from bq, not from zip files on random google drive shares
<studio_> dobey, no , why not?
<dobey> if you want to download random kernels and run them on your device, that's up to you. that is not how retail support chains work, however
<studio_> dobey, what kernel is the bq E4.5/E5.0 using for ubuntu touch?
<popey> ~3.4
<studio_> so thats old!
<dobey> the ubuntu images for krillin/vegeta are 3.4 from the android 4.4 tree for those devices
<dobey> yes, they are old phones
<studio_> did you checked the git?
<dobey> so your goal isn't to help, but to come in here and harass developers
<studio_> dobey, how to port the "krillin" for a new kernel?
<dobey> and again, you are ignoring what was said earlier
<dobey> https://github.com/bq is where bq publishes their git repositories
<dobey> not "Pablito2020"
<dobey> e4.5/e5 are also not arm64
<studio_> so the flash-tool understood the new kernel?
<dobey> ubuntu-device-flash doesn't understand any kernels
<dobey> it doesn't care about kernels
<studio_> so it is not "uesefull"
<dobey> *sigh*
<studio_> yeah :(
<studio_> so why ubuntu-device-flash isn't updated to the last kernel for the bq e4.5/e5.0?
<dobey> because you aren't running your own system-image server with custom built images to your liking
<studio_> what?
<studio_> what is the latest image with the the latest kernel? plz what channel?
<popey> rc-proposed, and will be 3.4
<studio_> 3.4 is old, again!
<dobey> as it has been for the past 2.5 years
<popey> you asked the same question
<popey> you got the same answer
<dobey> so is the bq e4.5
<dobey> it is old.
<popey> if you want different answers, ask different questions
<dobey> and not a different question that leads to the same answer
<studio_> popey, did you ever made an update to your E4.5/E5.0 on Android?
<popey> I never ran android on any bq device
<studio_> try it!
<popey> No thank you.
<dobey> this is not #android
<studio_> so where is the problem with the bq e4.5/e5.0 and snappy?
<dobey> that was already answered
<studio_> where?
<dobey> numerous places, but in here, about 30 minutes ago
<studio_> dobey, could you please so kindly to repeat your answer: why isn't the bq e4.5/e5.0 working with smappy?
<studio_> snappy
<dobey> no. you can read the scrollback
<studio_> thanks that you have no answer for that
<studio_> so ubuntu-touch is dead meat?
<k1l_> studio_: stop that
<dobey> no
<studio_> k1l_, bÃ¶ser onkel, ich frag doch nur ...
<k1l_> studio_: with your aggressive method you will not make anyone ship a more recent kernel for the aquaris devices.
<dobey> android isn't dead because the galaxy nexus no longer gets updates
<k1l_> studio_: no, you are annoying and insulting
<dobey> studio_: the official language of this channel is english. if you want to rant in german, please go to a german channel.
<studio_> k1l_, ich bin nich aggresiv, wie du schreibst, nur interessiert ...
<k1l_> studio_: no, you are not "just interested". you are anooing and aggressiv. you are that way since years now. and that way is not helping. you should have seen that alreday.
<dobey> i'm not sure what's worse. trying to talk to republicans, or studio_.
<studio_> dobey, is there a german channel for ubuntu-touch - i don't think so, because the germans don't like to be pranked ...
<dobey> k1l_: can we just ban him again perhaps? this is getting old.
<dobey> thanks
<k1l_> np
<k1l_> i still cant believe that he thinks this is helpfull in any way.
<davmor2> k1l_: I think that sentence is 6 words too long
<dobey> it seems to me that the problem is rather that he does not
<dobey> (think)
<daker> dobey: any idea about the push notification helper ? the notification is delivered to the server, but the helper is failing https://paste.ubuntu.com/23990849/
<dobey> daker: the halper has to print JSON to stdout. that error suggests stoud is empty
<dobey> s/stoud/stdout/
<daker> dobey: yeah i am using the helper from the doc
<daker> i'll try to do a print inside the helper to see something get printed
<dobey> daker: ok, well i'm not sure beyond that, but it looks to me like the error there is enough to point you in the right direction
<dobey> daker: you can just cat an example json of a push message from the server, into your helper, on console, and see what happens, too
<dobey> iirc, the "API" there is read in from stdin, and print to stdout
<daker> dobey: not sure how to do that, even adding some print function doesn't output anything
<dobey> daker: cat example.json | my-push-helper
<dobey> i would think anyway
<dobey> daker: are you trying to build an app that supports push notifications that you intend to ship as a snap, btw?
<daker> well i am intending to add push notifications for the phone bu the app works on desktop too, so i'll ship it as snap too
<daker> dobey: znc -> push server -> phone
<dobey> daker: ok, push notifications do not work at all for snaps yet. i'm not sure what all changes exactly will be necessary to get it working there, but there will definitely be changes, likely incompatible with clicks
<daker> dobey: i see, well since the app is stopped once in the background, the irc connection is dropped
<daker> the irc app supports znc, so you can znc running once get a message you'll get a push notification which will let you launch the app
<dobey> daker: sure, i understand why you want it
<dobey> daker: i was just pointing out what the situation is :)
<OerHeks> Fairphone 2 looks much better .. http://imgur.com/r/Ubuntu/XM6ip9n
<daker> dobey: yes :)
<dobey> daker: anyway, that's about the limit of my understanding with push helpers, right now :)
<daker> dobey: thanks, one more question, do you know any json database in qml ? The localstorage(SQLite) is really slow
<dobey> daker: there are qml bindings for u1db
<daker> i am looking at maz-db but since an not qt expert i am waiting for DanChapman to add a .pro for qmake
<dobey> which is also sqlite, but might be a little faster
<daker> yeah i'll try to give test it
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-14
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> think I got a possible bug, or its something else
<SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone around?
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, what is it?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, ok after upgrading to ota 15
<SebthreeBQM10HD> on my tablt
<brunch875> the aquaris m10?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> which now has actsually also a bit of a not crack uhmm uh forgot word now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> when its not a crack
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a dent ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no thats not  it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> anyway got like a line going from one side to the other going across, since its fallen, not as bad as it sounds
<SebthreeBQM10HD> i wonder if that could cause my issue hmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, yes the m10 ,but the hd, not the fhd
<SebthreeBQM10HD> when I  open up the browser
<SebthreeBQM10HD> for example
<brunch875> Well, SebthreeBQM10HD, it depends on the issue.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> its now, opening up when in tablet mode which is default
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in  a small area on the right of the screen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and then I can't seem to be able to resize it or anything, but if I swich to desktop mode, things are ok in full screen, and its not just the browser, seems to be like pretty much any app
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, does that make sense? small area of the screen,  instead of full screen, and not being able to just resize it
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, I wouldn't really know... I don't have a tablet
<brunch875> To resize... you use 3 fingers, right?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, hmm that might work, not really tried
<SebthreeBQM10HD> you mean when on it ?
<brunch875> Yes, that's how you resize windows, right?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I think i  just dragged before
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or didn' hve isuse
<SebthreeBQM10HD> went back to otablet mode
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so now got xchat open in background ok, thats libertine
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that's full size
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, I'd say the best way to test this would be grabbing a mouse
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but the browser is in the small area on the right of the screen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and can't sem to drag it or anyting like that to re resize
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a mouse hmm not tried, but that might jusst switch to desktop mode nayway
<brunch875> if my memory doesn't fail me, to resize windows you had to triple finger tap on a window, which would display the window controls
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but like this theres like a line down the left to, tht you would think could drag but nope
<brunch875> you say you can't even drag things around?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not having much luck trying
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, ok the screen has a scratch that's the word i wanted
<SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2,  popey is my above mentioned issue a possbile bug or ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, yes cant seem to drag and make bigger the browser window, when in tablet mode
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, but can you toggle the resize mode at all?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> brunch875, I tried a finger thing and that dind't work or I did that wrong
<SebthreeBQM10HD> nah its just stuckon the size it wanted
<SebthreeBQM10HD> on the right there
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I can mov beteween apps though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then it like moves in the mover thing but hmm
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: you typed a lot, can you summarise the bug pls?
<brunch875> popey: He can't seem to resize windows, he also has a scratch on the screen which might interfere
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I don't know if its a bug,  or just me being effected by the scratch down my screen
<brunch875> on 'desktop mode' that is
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no on tablet mode that is
<SebthreeBQM10HD> on desktp mode things are ok full siz
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well they are full size in desktop mode, not really treid to resiz as such there
<brunch875> I had no idea you could resize windows in tablet mode
<brunch875> ...can you?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in desktop mod e can re size with my fingr or a bit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in tablet mode it's opening up in a small space on th right
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so th tablet is going across it's not up,  that's when its across, but same thing if it was up
<SebthreeBQM10HD> it opens up in a small area, rather than full size like it used to
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then I can't seem to resize it at all when I try
<SebthreeBQM10HD> there's even a line  that would look a bit like a scroll bar down th left, but that isn't really the scroll bar, if that makes sense
<brunch875> you'll have to forgive me, I'm having a bit of trouble understanding
<SebthreeBQM10HD> a black line
<brunch875> I only ever handled the phone, too
<SebthreeBQM10HD> the browser used to open up in full sized no problem in both tablet and desktop
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but now  it doesn't in tabltet mode, but still does in dsktop
<popey> 12:55 < SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I don't know if its a bug,  or just me being effected by the scratch down my screen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok trying some other apps in tablet mode
<popey> use a mouse?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> they seem to be ok so far
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but the brwoser nope
<SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe this is a specific browsser in tablet mode bug then ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ok the browser opens up like tux racer which has th not full siz issue anyway
<SebthreeBQM10HD> tux racer had issues  not opening up full size from before, but now the broser as well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> in tablet mode
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, do you have a mouse to test it?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah, but upstairs unless...
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well got usb mouises here, but do I have the o2g thing hmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> bluetooth upstairs
<SebthreeBQM10HD> some where
<brunch875> give it a try! :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> tux racer acsaully opens up on the side as well
<brunch875> SebthreeBQM10HD, so the problem is you can't do this gesture? https://youtu.be/fiEkCaA_P7c?t=160
<brunch875> or that new apps open up in the sidestage?
<brunch875> or that you're unable to resize the sidestage?
<Ambystoma> Hi guys, I am having an issue with my bq 4.5 which does not recognize sim cards any more. There is no little signal icon in the upper right corner anymore and I cannot chose a wifi network. There is a icon in the drop down menu which wasn't there before "indicator-network", which is empty. The wierd thing is that I get telegram messages from time to time, but never saw that I could write some, telegram is always searching for
<Ambystoma>  a network... Can you help me with that?
<brunch875> Ambystoma, perhaps the indicator crashed. Restarting phone should do the trick
<Ambystoma> brunch875 I restarted already several times, it won't ask for pin codes any more and the problem stays the same
<dobey> Ambystoma: rm .config/connectivity-service/config.ini.lock
<pmcgowan> beat me to it
<mterry> tedg_: hey so I was tootling around with the "UAL should pay attention to Mir interface too" branch -- my changes might hit the snapd service an additional time (to get all interfaces for an appid).  How performance sensitive is it?  I'm noticing that it makes updating the tests a big pain because of the lists of responses that the mock gives back.  I can
<mterry> adjust that to be less sensitive to changes as well while I'm there, but wanted to ping you about this stuff before spending a bunch of time on it
<tedg_> mterry: So my thoughts were to not touch that stuff alot because I want to migrate all the snapd stuff to robert_ancell's glib-snapd library. I figured I'd do a better mock then.
<tedg_> mterry: So I'd say it's fine, but probably not worth a lot of your time.
<tedg_> mterry: Performance-wise snapd is fast, I'm not worried about it. But I figure we can put caches in later as we show need.
<tedg_> mterry: Right now the biggest bottleneck I'm worried about is the squashfs stuff. Which is entirely out of our control.
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, ping
<Ambystoma> dobey perfect this works completely
<Ambystoma> thank you for the quick an effective support!
<dobey> np
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, pong
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, hey, ... quick question ... there are no libs/ways to mock the content hub right? to ease up testing from the POV of a client
<kenvandine> alex-abreu, no...
<kenvandine> but it would be handy :)
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, indeed ...
<kenvandine> i've been wanting to dbusmock it
<alex-abreu> kenvandine, yes that's the approach that I had in mind
<kenvandine> i've been hoping jgdx would create a tool to automate creating mocks with dbus introspection ;)
<kenvandine> i keep planting the idea...
<jgdx> kenvandine, right, i too was hoping i would get that time
<kenvandine> jgdx, indeed...
<alex-abreu> a couple of hours should be enough no ? :)
<jgdx> problem is you need to write an adapter or something, because dbusmock's "templates" are small scripts right now
<nick118> has anyone tried to install virtualbox on ubuntu-touch?
<dobey> nick118: it's only avaialable for x86, so not likely. but what are you trying to do exactly?
<dobey> i would not suggest trying to run a vm on a phone. there is nowhere near enough RAM or CPU for it
<dobey> well maybe a very small vm could work, but it would be very slow
<nick118> meizu pro 5 has a 4gb ram (android version)
<nick118> how about qemu ? is it possible to install qemu on armv7 or armhf?
<dobey> nick118: http://askubuntu.com/a/623311/50737
<dobey> (i need to update that answer to include instructions for setting up a simple libertine container instead, as it manages some aspects of that better)
<dobey> nick118: what is it that you want to run in the vm though?
<dobey> qemu/kvm is available on arm, so it's at least installable
<nick118> I have read about libertine, on insights.ubuntu.com
<nick118> libertine is very helpful
<nick118> I don't have any specific thing in mind to run on a VM on a phone
<nick118> however I regularly use VMs to experiment with basic OSes and some assembly code
<dobey> nick118: well arm is weird, so it's not quite the same as setting up a VM on x86 and booting an ISO and installing. i presume the assembler you're referring to is also probably x86 asm, which you would need to emulate to run on a phone, so probably not a great way to test it
<nick118> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/08/04/use-any-app-from-your-ubuntu-phone-or-desktop/
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-15
<UbuntuUser> Hi, I was wondering. I installed ubuntu touch on my Nexus 7 (2013) and now my computer when the tablet is in bootloader mode won't detect it. I wanted to possibly reinstall and see if some of the buggy features are fixed.
<UbuntuUser> Are there any solutions that can help an ubuntu desktop or any other distro detect it in adb?
<dobey> UbuntuUser: when in bootloader adb is not used. you need to boot into recovery or live system with dev mode enabled, instead, to get adb
<UbuntuUser> I tried developer mode but, nothing is detected
<UbuntuUser> can you reflash android from recovery mode?
<UbuntuUser> like the Music app crashes constantly, theres no volume control in the ubuntu touch. I'd kinda like to either reflash ubuntu or android and try a different version.
<dobey> yes
<dobey> you can reflash in bootloater too, but doing so will erase all user data on the device (if you're ok with that)
<dobey> which i guess you are if android is an option there
<dobey> well you have to flash android from the bootloader (at least, the stock android image)
<dobey> but --bootstrap option will flash while in bootloader, and erase all user data too
<dobey> (for ubuntu-device-flash)
<dobey> there could also be an issue with the usb cable or the port it's connected to (or the port on the device itself), as well, if it doesn't even show up in dmesg output for example
<UbuntuUser> why does it show up with lsusb and fastboot then?
<UbuntuUser> it does show up in dmesg too
<UbuntuUser> but, when I use adb in dev mode or bootloader mode. I get nothing.
<UbuntuUser> [ 1148.427550] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Google [ 1148.427553] usb 1-1: SerialNumber: 05b28bde [ 1519.014705] wlp2s0: AP ac:22:0b:7c:6f:c8 changed bandwidth, new config is 2422 MHz, width 1 (2422/0 MHz)
<UbuntuUser> Hmm /Desktop# adb devices List of devices attached
<dobey> there is no adb in bootloader
<dobey> if you're in bootloader try "fastboot devices" to see it
<dobey> in dev mode, it has to be enabled and the screen unlocked. if it doesn't show up then, maybe a bug, or maybe some other problem
<UbuntuUser> welp dobey
<UbuntuUser> I reflashed it and I got back my volume control
<UbuntuUser> thank you very much
<UbuntuUser> (:
<UbuntuUser> I also learned that you could flash from recovery
<UbuntuUser> Was sweating bullets there for a minute or two (not going to lie, I've never done this before). I thought it was going to brick.
<dobey> :)
<mardy> morphis: hi! Any news about bug 1658617?
<ubot5> bug 1658617 in Ubuntu App Platform "webapps crashing - oxide being compiled with wrong libs?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658617
<morphis> mardy: hey!
<morphis> mardy: not really, but there is a quick workaround you can try without us changing libhybris
<mardy> morphis: oh! I'm all ears :-)
<morphis> auto ptr = android_dlopen("libcamera_compat_layer.so", RTLD_LAZY);
<morphis> that should return nullptr when the library isn't available
<mardy> morphis: mmm... now it's a matter of deciding whether it's easier to rebuild oxide, or wait for libhybris :-)
<morphis> hah :-)
<morphis> is that such a big issue?
<mardy> morphis: do you have an approximate ETA?
<morphis> not really
<mardy> morphis: well, many webapps are not working, and some important ones, such as gmail and google+
<morphis> I am full with a lot of other work items but what is this blocking?
<mardy> morphis: liuxg has also written another one for an important chinese website
<morphis> the bug doesn't give much information nor does it link to any milestone
<mardy> morphis: it's hard for me to tell how urgent this is, I guess that at the moment no one is using these webapps, but...
<morphis> is this just for the snap variant?
<morphis> or does this happen on desktop in general?
<mardy> morphis: I'll ping you back in a while, when dbarth get online; he will tell
<morphis> mardy: "I should point out, this runtime check does work fine on a standard desktop install."
<mardy> morphis: I have been seeing it only on the snaps, but it's also because it'e the only way I've been using oxide on the desktop, so that doesn't tell much
<Guest0815> hello
<davmor2> Guest0815: hello
<morphis> mardy: "the check on whether to use libhybris is done at run-time" -> can you point me to the relevant code part in oxide for this?
<Guest0815> sorry, i have to leave due to real world
<mardy> morphis: I just tried webbrowser app (as a deb) on xenial, and it doesn't crash -- but it's using an older version of oxide, so maybe things are different there
<mardy> dbarth: hi! We were wondering with morphis how urgent bug 1658617 is
<ubot5> bug 1658617 in Ubuntu App Platform "webapps crashing - oxide being compiled with wrong libs?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658617
<mardy> dbarth: it affects gmail, google+ and a webapp by liuxg (taobao)
<jim__> Hi,I have experienced the broken wifi problem with Ubuntu 16.04. Was working for past 6 Months prior to yesterday, is there a fix yet?
<brunch875_> jim__, are you talking about ubuntu-touch? I thought we were still on vivid
<jim__> No , maybe I am on wrong forum. Just standard 16.04 Laptop
<ogra_> jim__, try #ubuntu then
<jim__> ok thank you..
<ayib29> indonesia version
<mterry> tedg_: are UAL tests passing in trunk for you?
<dobey> mterry: libertine ones were failing until ken's silo lands, i think
<dobey> a libertine landing caused that to break
<mterry> ah yes lp:~ted/ubuntu-app-launch/libertine-service seems to be that branch
 * mterry tries
<mterry> Hmm, that looks like it fixes some...   /me deep dives into other branches
<dobey> mterry: what others are failing?
<dobey> i guess some might still be flaky otherwise, but should in general be passing
<mterry> Well the toplevel notice is
<mterry> 	 14 - libual-cpp-test (Failed)
<mterry> 	 18 - list-apps (Failed)
<mterry> 	 24 - exec-util-test (Failed)
<mterry> I don't have a full list of internal ones that fail
 * mterry retries, sees what goes away
<dobey> hmm
<mterry> I'm building on xenial+overlay, maybe that affects it
<tedg_> mterry: I can build that branch on x+o and the tests pass
<tedg_> mterry: You'll need libertine >= 1.6
<dobey> mterry: nah. the tests have to pass in launchpad builders to land in the overlay and on zesty, so they at least passed at that point
<mterry> tedg_: I have libertine 1.6 from the overlay
<dobey> mterry: are you just doing "make test" there?
<mterry> tedg_: the CI for your branch didn't pass
<mterry> dobey: debuild
<dobey> mterry: ah. it should print out the errors for the failed tests then, above that listing you pasted. could be a LOT of debug info printed too though
<mterry> Oh there is
<mterry> Seems to be libertine errors...
<tedg_> mterry: Are you doing it in an sbuild?
<mterry> no
<tedg_> mterry: If so you'll need kenvandine libertine fixes
<tedg_> mterry: Oh, you'll need the liblibertine patch no matter what.
<dobey> ?
<tedg_> mterry: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2405
<tedg_> mterry: liblibertine uses QtDBus as per the docs, which is broken. So we had to fix it.
<mterry> tedg_: ah ok will try with that silo, thanks
<dobey> tedg_: oh is that why the tests hanged?
<dobey> 17:42:45 E: Build killed with signal TERM after 150 minutes of inactivity
<kenvandine> dobey, that was actually a missing depends in libertine
<tedg_> dobey: Yup, dbus connection singletons
<kenvandine> partially
<tedg_> kenvandine: Different hang :-)
<kenvandine> once ted fixed the dbus issue it uncovered the depends that caused the hang
<kenvandine> it was like peeling an onion :)
<kenvandine> i'm still not sure why the missing depends caused a hang... it should have just blown up
<tedg_> But we fried that onion and made onion rings!
<kenvandine> yum
<dobey> what was the missing depends?
<tedg_> kenvandine: The test is waiting for the service to start, but also ignoring it for determining if it fails or not (we don't care about the return of libertine service). So that creates a situation where we'll wait forever. Need to fix that, but not a priority for getting this out.
<kenvandine> so ted's fault :)
<dobey> usually is :)
<kenvandine> dobey, some python depends that didn't get moved from libertine-tools to python3-libertine like they should have
<dobey> ah
<kenvandine> dobey, it's been fun :)
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-16
<sergiusens> Elleo: hey there, any workaround to cancel downloads for LP: #1654153 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1654153 in podbird "Download in the background does not stop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654153
<Elleo> sergiusens: hadn't seen that before, will look into it when I've got a bit of time
<yang> Any ETA on the next Ubuntu touch tablet after Aquaris M10 ?
<thrasos> hello
<thrasos> does anyone run touch on Sony Xperia?
<OerHeks> thrasos, Z1 ? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/02/ubuntu-phone-sony-xperia-oneplus-one
<thrasos> OerHeks, m4 aqua
<OerHeks> not in the list > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices#Working_ports.2C_but_w.2Fo_system-image_server
<thrasos> i see
<mterry> tedg_: OK, jdstrand doesn't like the existing snap appid format -- wants UAL to use what snappy does (snap.NAME_COMMAND) rather than NAME_COMMAND_REVISION -- any objection to me whipping up a branch to do that? Are there issues in such a migration?
<tedg_> mterry: Uhm, where is he concerned about it?
<tedg_> We also really need the revision in there.
<mterry> tedg_: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2787#discussion_r101558251
<tedg_> jdstrand: It's *everywhere* and very few people use the helper classes, so we couldn't change it in one place.
<tedg_> jdstrand: Also, how does snapd guarantee that there aren't two revisions of a snap being run? There are three versions installed...
<tedg_> jdstrand: There's only one if I say "right now what is the revision" but the app could be running while it is upgraded and would continue to run.
<jdstrand> tedg_: snapd does manager that. please note, you and I won't solve this here unless you conform to snapd's snap name as I advised. anything short of that will need niemeyer and tvoss
<jdstrand> manage*
<tedg_> jdstrand: Okay, how does snapd manage that? Open files?
<jdstrand> tedg_: it would continue to run, but that is a problem area that UAL could actually help with. you may have the revision all pretty, but the policy changed out from under it and it failed
<jdstrand> fails
<tedg_> jdstrand: Uhm, that would really suck?
<jdstrand> there are open bugs on that. I don't think UAL should be trying to work around this because the snap won't run right anyway
<jdstrand> tedg_: it does suck. ual could perhaps notice this and guide the user to restart (or restart automatically
<jdstrand> iirc, android restarts apps. I'm not sure how well we could manage that. simple is tearing down all state and starting anew, but that isn't great for open files
<jdstrand> so perhaps guiding the user to restart is the way to go (that said, depending on the file, it may not be saveable in the old location)
<tedg_> Well it depends on if the application has lifecycle support, which things like X11 apps don't have.
<tedg_> So we could handle it in *some* situations, but we can't kill apps.
<tedg_> I mean, seriously, we lose someone's life's work in an editor because of an upgrade...
<jdstrand> yes. let me get the bug
<tedg_> There was no bug fix worth that.
<tedg_> And, to be more clear, this is why we have revision in the appid :-)
<jdstrand> tedg_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1616650
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1616650 in Snappy "snap refresh while command is running may cause issues" [Undecided,Expired]
<tedg_> So to be clear, I think that changing from "_" to "." would be a PITA and cause bugs, but I don't really *care* as much as I'd like to avoid it. But I think dropping revision would cause real problems.
<jdstrand> tedg_: some people use SNAP_USER_COMMON for everything to help
<jdstrand> I don't think that is great
<tedg_> I think that USER_COMMON would be used for user data.
<tedg_> And then USER_DATA should be anything like caches and such.
<jdstrand> there are other solutions-- we could make all revisions writable instead of only the current revision. that was NAKd in the past, but perhaps a new argument could revisit that
<tedg_> Well, it seems like the lazy unmounting fixes part of the problem, as the files will still be there.
<tedg_> It seems like we just need the apparmor policy to have the revision in it.
<tedg_> And to make sure we have apparmor policy for every revision mounted.
<jdstrand> tedg_: yeah, that is what people are doing I think, though, even with caches that is problematic cause you might have the dir location saved in memory and you just got there (as opposed to reevaluating SNAP_USER_DATA on every open)
<jdstrand> tedg_: adding apparmor policy files for each revision could also work. that was NAKd and would have to be revisited
<tedg_> jdstrand: Was it NAKd just for cleanliness?
<jdstrand> tedg_: adjust the policy to not be revision specific is easy
<jdstrand> tedg_: well, it is cleaner, sure, but it reduces a lot of complexity in nearly every way
<tedg_> jdstrand: Well, it'll always be revision specific just because each revision could have different interfaces.
<jdstrand> tedg_: you misunderatnd. I mean the default template could use .../@{SNAP_NAME}/** w, instead of .../@{SNAP_NAME}/@{SNAP_REVISION}/** w,
<jdstrand> that way you can still write to your open files. it breaks if you had 'home' (or something) in one and then don't in the new revision
<tedg_> jdstrand: Sure, I'm just saying that all the other stuff like networking might be in one revision but not the other.
<tedg_> jdstrand: So if the wrong policy gets used the app would break.
<jdstrand> it's a tricky prospect and needs design
<tedg_> There is the case of files in the home directory as well, but lots of other stuff too.
<jdstrand> it is also more than apparmor. seccomp is only done on app launch and not reloaded and applied at runtime
<tedg_> Well, if we're worried about running apps, that works :-)
<jdstrand> again, I'd love to see this fixed, but need to have the right people involved. everything said so far has been discussed and decided already
<tedg_> jdstrand: So if my app, foo is running and a new version gets install that doesn't have the home interface. Does the running instance still have access?
<jdstrand> tedg_: no
<jdstrand> there is one profile. period
<jdstrand> it gets reloaded
<jdstrand> and the app has to deal
<jdstrand> it would be possible to move the reload to snap-confine
<jdstrand> ie, refresh updates the file on disk, and even generate the cache, but doesn't load it into the kernel
<jdstrand> snap-confine could then be made to apparmor_parser -r it to load it into the kernel
<jdstrand> this is something else that would need to be discussed and ACKd by an architect
<jdstrand> this is probably only cli and not 'daemon' behavior. daemons are restarted so they don't suffer the same issues
<jdstrand> so this adds complexity and the possibility of never loading the right profile
<studio_> hi again ...
<studio_> dobey, the bq e4.5 kernel 3.10.54 is public (https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/tree/aquaris-E4.5_2.x) . why isn't it used for the ubuntu-touch? Why it never was patched for UT?
<jdstrand> tedg_: on the one hand, having apparmor_parser called be snap-confine for non-daemon commands fixes a number of issues, but we would want to be smart to not add another exec needlessly so as not to impact performance (eg, imagine a command that is called over and over again). that is where the complexity comes in
<jdstrand> called by*
<jdstrand> anyway, need to get the right people involved
<tedg_> jdstrand: Sorry, my dad stopped by. Reading now.
<studio_> what is the latest kernel for the latest "official" ubuntu-touch device?
<tedg_> jdstrand: So I think we should file a bug about it, I don't think that bug 1616650 is the right place because that's more about file access. Thinking something about apparmor profiles makes more sense.
<ubot5> bug 1616650 in Snappy "snap refresh while command is running may cause issues" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1616650
<jdstrand> tedg_: well, the title is vague enough for really anything :P
<jdstrand> 'may cause issues', hehe
<tedg_> Don't use refresh on nuclear submarines ;-)
<studio_> is there any info about latest kernels and "official" ubuntu-touch devices? If yes, where?
<tedg_> jdstrand: So, in the meantime, can we stick with the appid format we have for starting to land the unity8 interface stuff?
<tedg_> jdstrand: It seems like snapd shouldn't *really* care what things built on top of it do.
<tedg_> jdstrand: It'd be nice to make it consistent, but shouldn't really matter. Other desktops are likely to invent their own identifiers as well.
<jdstrand> tedg_: snapd shouldn't care, no, but you're contorting snapd mechanisms that will lead to confusion and that is impacting snapd code and security policy
<jdstrand> tedg_: so it is a bit different
<jdstrand> tedg_: if you want to change it, you need niemeyer and tvoss involved
<studio_> brunch875, are you still there?
<brunch875> studio_, always available for you!
<tedg_> jdstrand: I guess I don't understand how we're impacting snapd code or policy in this case. I consider the unity8 interface a "unity8 thing" not a "snapd thing".
<studio_> do you have any idea (before i get kicked again from this channel)?
<jdstrand> tedg_: I'm talking from snapd's perspective, sorry. if you want snapd to have some notion of old-world AppIDs, that needs niemeyer and tvoss' involvement. I see problems there
<tedg_> jdstrand: I do *want* that, but I'm willing to move forward without it and realize that is a bigger change. But my immediate concern is getting a working unity8 interface.
<jdstrand> tedg_: please read my comment in the PR and feel free to coordinate a discussion on it. I'm sorry, I'm trying to honor the snappy way
<brunch875> studio_, you mean, you wish to buy a new ubuntu phone with a recent kernel?
<brunch875> studio_, I have my eye put on the fairphone 2, I believe it will be released soon
<brunch875> it's not something canonical is pulling out officially, but it looks promising from a kernel perspective
<studio_> brunch875, no, i do not understand why the new kernel was not patched for UT.
<jdstrand> tedg_: I would accept a patch that stripped all of the old-wold AppID and had a DBus path glog rule with a TODO to unblock the interface. the interface is restricted in who can use it now, so that's fine
<jdstrand> glob*
<brunch875> studio_, that is the work of the phone manufacturer, there's little ubuntu can do
<studio_> brunch875, the kernel was allways patched by Canonical, wasn't it?
<tedg_> jdstrand: Okay, I think that makes sense to move forward until we can have the bigger conversation.
<tedg_> mterry: ^
<brunch875> studio_, Allow me to explain: phones are a bit different from computers. When you buy an android phone, it comes bundled with a specific kernel to control things such as the camera. When installing ubuntu, you put it on top of that.
<studio_> https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/tree/aquaris-E4.5-ubuntu-master committed with john-mcaleely
<brunch875> studio_, this more or less explains why you won't be seeing ubuntu touch installed on an iphone
<studio_>  john-mcaleely is a member from Canonical, right?
<OerHeks> studio_, again? dobey / popey answered that already, what answer satisfies you?
<studio_> no, on no way. why was the first kernel modyfied by john-mcaleely and the second not?
<brunch875> studio_, the short, simple question is stuff like the camera would stop working if the newest kernel was used
<brunch875> or that's what I know with my little knowledge :p
<studio_> brunch875, where did you get this info from?
<studio_> info
<brunch875> just a moment
<tedg_> jdstrand: mterry: Okay, commented on the PR.
<mterry> tedg_, jdstrand: I can do a glob rule to unblock, sure
<brunch875> studio_, have a look at this picture: https://developer.ubuntu.com/static/devportal_uploaded/136981fa-6287-49d3-9874-06f40b2e4eb7-cms_page_media/380/ubuntu_touch_architecture.png
<jdstrand> ok, cool
<brunch875> studio_, the blue stuff is what the phone manufacturer has created, and it is "secret". Ubuntu cannot change that part
<brunch875> studio_, the blue stuff was build for a specific kernel version. If you change the kernel version, the blue stuff stops working
<brunch875> How would you do this then? Well, the manufacturer of the phone (which isn't ubuntu) has to change the blue pieces to work for a newer kernel
<brunch875> That is why I mentioned the fairphone before; the fairphone manufacturers are a lot less secretive about the blue parts and so anyone can work on those :)
<brunch875> and so upgrading the kernel is possible
<studio_> brunch875, but that's for 14.04, wasn't it?
<brunch875> that is for any ubuntu version, sadly :(
<brunch875> ubuntu 15.10 is still just the orange part
<brunch875> you need to change the blue part for a linux kernel upgrade
<brunch875> and the manufacturer keeps that fixed, ubuntu can only change the orange things
<studio_> so, "to port a new device" will never work for a new kernel, exp. krillin?
<brunch875> yes, unless you find a manufacturer which helps with the blue parts
<brunch875> if you change the blue section, you can use a newer kernel
<studio_> so how can it be possible to port a new device?
<brunch875> when you port a new device, you write the orange things
<brunch875> but you cannot change the blue parts
<brunch875> and this isn't just with ubuntu, it also happens if you try to write a new android
<brunch875> or cyanogenmod
<mterry> tedg_: did you file a bug?
<brunch875> to change the blue parts, you need colaboration with the phone manufacturer.
<tedg_> mterry: Trying to figure out how to phrase it...
<mterry> tedg_: understood  :)   ping me when you have one so I can add to source comment
<studio_> brunch875, what kernel is the fairphone 2 using?
<brunch875> studio_, it hasn't been released yet, I do not know. But fairphone 2 has a lot more control over the drivers of the device which means upgrading the kernel should be no troubles
<brunch875> In other words, probably the latest, all the time
<brunch875> or at least that is what I hope!
<brunch875> I also heard it is possible to install ubuntu touch on the fairphone 2
<studio_> hmm, my Rasperry PI's are using 4.9.9+
<popey> 17:26 < studio_>  john-mcaleely is a member from Canonical, right?
<popey> was, isn't anymore
<studio_> would be nice if there is same support for phone manufacors
<brunch875> studio_, yes, we would all love if the phone manufacturers were more open
<popey> studio_: the fairphone 2 port is a community maintained one. You're better off asking the UBPorts people as they did it.
<studio_> in the moment i and some more feel "pranked" from the phone industry
<brunch875> studio_, yes, the phone industry is :[
<dobey> jfc
<dobey> stop asking the same thing over and over and over
<dobey> but yes, it would be nice if phone and chip manufacturers would open source the drivers and specs for their hardware
<studio_> but, is there a different to canonical? Because, they tell they are open source, but where to find the sources?
<brunch875> studio_, canonical would have to create the blue part
<dobey> all of the drivers are not open source
<brunch875> which means canonical would have to manufacture the phone
<brunch875> there was a project called edge, but it failed
<ogra_> well ... even if it had not failed ... it isntactually the *phone* manufaturers, but the *chip* manufacturers
<studio_> brunch875, where can i find the latest kernel patches for the bq e4.5?
<brunch875> studio_, they do not exist :)
<popey> studio_: for what kernel version?
<ogra_> so even the edge would likely have had to use closed bits because you wont find open drivers anywhere for certain sensors and chips a phone needs
<studio_> hmm, i can see the kernel config on my phone
<brunch875> ogra_, does this mean not even the fairphone can pull this stunt?
<ogra_> brunch875, right
<dobey> the tree for the kernel for the e4.5 was published on github
 * brunch875 crawls to a corner to cry
<ogra_> there is no open modem chop
<ogra_> *chip
<ogra_> for example
<ogra_> so if you want your phone to be able to make calls ... you have to use a closed driver
<ogra_> and the modem chip manufacturers have no reason to change that
<studio_> dobey, but it was never patched for 3.10.54
<ogra_> same goes for most GPS chips ... sensors ... etc
<popey> studio_: correct, it's 3.4 isnt it?
<dobey> well, it takes a concerted effort, and involving companies with enough market capitalization, to change that
<dobey> studio_: no e4.5 ever shipped with ubuntu and the 3.10 kernel
<studio_> popey, 3.4. xx, yes but also never patched to the latest kernel
 * k1l_ thinks we already had the solution, that studio_ will pay the chip makers to hand out the  driver sources
<ogra_> +1
<popey> studio_: right, you know the answer, so stop asking
<ogra_> k1l_, i like your pragmatism :)
<brunch875> studio_, you need to convince the chip makers to give us drivers
<brunch875> you're our only hope
<brunch875> if ubuntu gets open drivers, we can patch the kernel!
<dobey> brunch875: i think you're only making things more confusing
<dobey> drivers being opened or closed is irrelevant to "patching the kernel"
<studio_> brunch875, the conversation with you was constructive, as you can see, some people here are not so constructive ... :(
<brunch875> dobey, that's true. I'm just painting really bold strokes :p
<k1l_> mediatek doesnt have the best reputation for helping with drivers.
<brunch875> studio_, I'm glad you see it can't be done until the chip manufacturers stop cheating us :[
<dobey> studio_: true. you are very non-constructive
<studio_> dobey, you are the best :)
<dobey> if you want a newer kernel on your phone, then have at it. nobody stopping you from doing all the work. go hack at it to your hearts content
<studio_> dobey, the problem is the phone-update-software from canonical, it do not understand, that the phone is using a newer kernel.
<dobey> it doesn't care
<ogra_> why would it
<studio_> that's the problem
<dobey> no it isn't
<ogra_> it just unpacks tarballs
<ogra_> no matter what is inside
<dobey> set up your own system-image server and build your own device tarballs
<dobey> nobody stopping you
<ogra_> and put in whatever kernel you like
<ogra_> or talk to the guys in #ubports on how to sideload your own kernel without a system-image server
<studio_> you are ignorants, sorry
<ogra_> they do that all the time when porting
<dobey> studio_: goodbye then
<studio_> dobey, feel free to leave
<ogra_> studio_, you are claiming nonsense ... and we are ignorants ? the upgrade mechanism has absolutely nothing to do with the kernel version ..
<ogra_> just roll your own and be happy with it
<dobey> k1l_: ^^ i guess he isn't learning :(
<k1l_> studio_: the point is: you are still demanding things that cant be done officially from canonical.
<ogra_> as i said above, the guys in #ubports can tell you how to install it
<studio_> ogra_, do you have any static how my users, with official UT-Devices, are happy with their devices?
<k1l_> studio_: that has been told to you very very very often. you are free to change kernels and stuff as you want. but demanding it from ubuntu to do the work for you doesnt work. this will never change, so better forget about that "solution" and start thinking of doing that work yourself or create a team who does that.
<studio_> many
<studio_> k1l_, could you please constructive? before you kick somebody?
<k1l_> studio_: its constructive. this has been answered several times to you. and the answer will not change, no matter how often you keep asking it or how much pressure you try to make with insulting others.
<dobey> studio_: as has been said a thousand times over, it is your attitude that it is the problem here. you keep asking the same things repeatedly, because you don't like the answers, you resort to insults, and you are demanding people build things how you want them.
<studio_> again, do you have a current statistic about users who are satisfied with their UT-Device?
 * ogra_ is pretty happy with his device
<studio_> and i do not mean the developers only
<k1l_> studio_: in a perfect world everyone would be happy to ship the latest kernel on open source ubuntu smartphones, that are dead cheap or even for free. but this is not the perfect world we live in. the technical issue have been explained in detail to you. there is no news on that and there wont be any. so there is no need on demanding things, either be happy as it is, or argue with the chipmakers to give you the driver sources or try to port another
<ogra_> it makes calls, plays music, is usable as desktop ... etc etc
<brunch875> I am also very happy with the e4.5!
<k1l_> kernel on your own.
<dobey> studio_: such a statistic is irrelevant. it's purely something you want to use as some sort of evidence to claim you are somehow right, and continue to insult ubuntu
<ogra_> studio_, ?? its a developer device ...
<dobey> studio_: if you don't like ubuntu, don't use it, and leave us alone
<brunch875> studio_, you could try to flash android, but you'd still have the same kernel version problem
<brunch875> this isn't an ubuntu thing, it can't be done
<studio_> ogra_, what i am missing on your "etc", it can't handle video-calls nor sip-calls
<ogra_> my hangouts definitely work ... i dont use SIP though
<ogra_> my phone 100% fulfills my needs
<studio_> ogra_, you are an developer, not a user
<ogra_> using a device for developers
<ogra_> nt for endusers
<ogra_> so yeah ... 100% match i'd say
<studio_> nt=nice try?
<ogra_> *not
<dobey> brunch875: well, you can get 3.10 with android apparently, but it's still only 3.10, and there's no specific noted advantage to having the newer kernel on that device
<studio_> brunch875, sorry, i missed you answer, for the bq E4.5 you can try Lineage OS: http://www.htcmania.com/showthread.php?t=1162844
<ogra_> happy trying then
<ogra_> switch over any be happy
<studio_> or the beta: http://www.htcmania.com/showthread.php?t=1279437
<studio_> ogra_, the problem is, they can't handle sip calls as the 5.0 can do
<dobey> now you're just spamming
<ogra_> they ?
<studio_> 6.x an 7.x
<ogra_> who do you talk about ?
<dobey> he's talking about android
<dobey> this is not #android dear studio_
<dobey> nor is it #lineageos
<ogra_> ah
<dobey> i'm pretty sure sip calls work fine there though
<ogra_> i thought he meant people using ubuntu ...
<dobey> well, at least, it worked fine on cyanogenmod 13 which is android 6
<dobey> well, of course sip calls don't work in ubuntu. our dialer doesn't have sip support yet
<studio_> yet ?
<studio_> it never had
<dobey> nobody said it ever did have
<ogra_> nobody claimed it ever had
<dobey> that is not what "yet" means
<dobey>  it means it's certainly plausible/possible that a future version could have it
<popey> mcphail: nice timing
<dobey> especially if people were submitting patches to help get it enabled
<mcphail> popey: ?
<dobey> mcphail: your favorite cheek pinching puppet is here
<studio_> so why the UT-Phone can't server basics like video- or sip-calls?
<popey> studio_: because nobody has written that code yet
<ogra_> basics ?
<dobey> it can
<mcphail> :) hi studio_ ! how's things?
<dobey> google hangouts works
<dobey> you can install other video/voice chat things and they will work
<dobey> or should work
<studio_> popey, don't you thing it's time for that?
<ogra_> send patches
<k1l_> studio_: its not basics to everyone. just because you demand it doesnt make it basics for erveryone. that is one of your misconceptions
<ogra_> sourcs is on launchpad
<ogra_> *source
<dobey> migh have to crack open this tequila aged beer sooner than i thought
<popey> studio_: no, i don't. I think the investment isn't worth it for the number of devices out there
<ogra_> dobey, cheers
<popey> studio_: if we had more devices in the pipeline, then maybe, yes.
 * ogra_ looks for the glenvilet 
<dobey> mmmm
<ogra_> ah, only glenmorangie
<dobey> also mmmm
<studio_> k1l_, video and sip calls are basics since a long time, do you remember NOKIA?
 * popey is not allowed any, doctors orders
 * dobey goes to make a sip video call on his 3310
<k1l_> studio_: you mean that company that went bust?
<dobey> i don't think any of my nokia phones support sip/video calls natively
<dobey> nor do my samsung phones
<dobey> not sure that my htc does either
<studio_> dobey, maybe a problem from your telcom
<popey> last nokia i had was 10 years ago and it didn't do vidoe calling or sip out of the box
<dobey> studio_: no, it's nothing to do with the provider
<studio_> popey, never ied an e-series or n-series?
<dobey> first phone i had that did sip was probably my pre
<dobey> anyway
<dobey> again, has nothing to do with ubuntu
<popey> actually maybe it did, I never used it though
<popey> n82
<studio_> dobey, "ubuntu" can do sip calls
<dobey> studio_: if you think a specific feature needs to be implemented in ubuntu, i'm sure you can contact canonical sales and offer to contract them to implement the feature you desire
<studio_> as i said, "ubuntu" can do calls via sip
<brunch875> that sounds like a fantastic idea
<dobey> build a phone and contract canonical to provide ubuntu for it
<dobey> studio_: then you don't have a problem. so stop whining
<popey> ogra_: saw this and thought of you https://plus.google.com/u/0/+TerryMcNeil/posts/SgDQdUUbyPn
<OerHeks> One option that i miss, is Cell-broadcast. ( message in case of local emergency)
<studio_> dobey, sorry, please let me whining, i am the only person who is whining since you have no statistic about users who satisfied with th UT-Device ;)
<brunch875> studio_, :(
<studio_> brunch875, come on, let me joke a little bit ;)
<brunch875> popey, right now I have a conflict of hunger, laughter and facepalm
<OerHeks> shoot the troll, i am hungry too!
<brunch875> this calls for returning home to fill my abdomen
<dobey> studio_: i think you missed the memo, but jokes are humorous, not slanderous.
<studio_> dobey, as i wrote, you and other missed something. you wasn't able since 2013 to make a statistic what do the users want an think about mobile devices
<dobey> no, nothing was missed
<dobey> you are trolling
<dobey> you are making the assumption that the majority of purchasers are somehow grossly dissatisfied, and you wish to use such a statistic to make further derisive commentary
<dobey> that much is clear
<studio_> no i am not trolling
<k1l_> studio_: the point is: you think that your demands are not only your demands but are for all users. this is a misconception.
<dobey> and frankly, either way, the number is mostly irrelevant
<k1l_> studio_: so try not to make it look like the ubuntu phones are rubbish and dont have any features just because its missing one you would like to have.
<studio_> but maybe canonical was trolling with the name ubuntu for mobile devices, as many user thought it the same as their "ubuntu-device"
<k1l_> because this will not motivate people to help you
<dobey> if you think it is important because you personally are unhappy, then you are saying you wish we would just kill the project, and you want to use something else anyway; so really, you should just go use that something else and stop trolling in here
<k1l_> studio_: again: dont say "users" when it means "studio_"
<studio_> k1l_, are you blind?
<dobey> there have indeed been other people who were expecting their phone to be a PC
<dobey> however, we explained to them the differences, and guess what. they don't keep coming in here asking the same thing over and over again and demanding we make something specific differently to satisfy them personally, as you do
<studio_> dobey, do a big favour for all users an declare in the UT-Sites, that UT is not Ubuntu because it is depending from Android and has nothing to do with Ubuntu!
<dobey> no
<dobey> it is ubuntu
<dobey> your idea of what ubuntu is, does not make it not ubuntu
<studio_> so you want kidding users?
<dobey> no
<dobey> only you
<k1l_> i declare the buffett to be open
<OerHeks> ð´
<studio_> dobey, you are kidding yourself! change your password with passwd
<dobey> why would i do that
<studio_> to show you, that you are kidding yourself
<dobey> so some bug that you are obviously referring to, is me kidding myself, because ubuntu is "working toward a fully converged system" and it's not quite there yet?
<dobey> i would rather suggest perhaps you might want to go read about logical fallacies
<dobey> you're full of them :)
<studio_> as i said, why are you trying to kidding customers if you do not try kidding youself?
<OerHeks> look in the mirror, studio_ :-D
<studio_> :)
<dobey> you keep using that word
<dobey> i do not think it means, what you think it means
<dobey> repeating your rhetoric isn't going to change the facts
<OerHeks> But i had a question before this: One option that i miss, is Cell-broadcast. ( message in case of local emergency) Is there any sign that this will be implented?
<OerHeks> c/implemented
<dobey> OerHeks: i have absolutely no idea how that actually works, so i wouldn't have the slightest of clue
<dobey> OerHeks: i presume if it doesn't need extra binary blobs, it probably wouldn't be too terribly hard to implement though, for someone who knows what they're doing
<OerHeks> dobey, in short: any gsm in an area can recieve a text message in case of an emergency, like the acid disaster in Oberhausen today > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadcast
<dobey> OerHeks: right. i meant on the technical level with reespect to the android layer and getting those bits over into the ubuntu side
<dobey> OerHeks: the name itself is pretty self-descriptive :)
<studio__> dobey, again, "fooling" clients is a bad commercial strategy. you have to figure out if they are happy with the product.
<dobey> attente: again, your rhetoric doesn't change facts. nobody is fooling anyone
<dobey> err
<OerHeks> dobey, for android one needs to install an app > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digitata.cellbroadcast&hl=en
<dobey> not attente
<dobey> studio__: again, your rhetoric doesn't change facts. nobody is fooling anyone
<studio__> <dobey>
<dobey> OerHeks: didn't cyanogenmod support it natively?
<k1l_> studio__: its not fooling customers.
<studio__> so do you have a statisic about UT?
<dobey> studio__: again, stop repeating questions you have already received answers to
<dobey> i have one statistic; every ubuntu phone/tablet has sold out of stock repeatedly
<studio__> dobey, stop trolling!
<dobey> k1l_: can you just ban him again? this is not going anywhere, yet again
<OerHeks> dobey, not sure, on this page it looks like it is standard http://harwinder.in/blog/2014/08/04/disabling-cell-broadcasts-cm-11-m8/
<k1l_> studio__: and to be honest, this is a very aggressive claim. if you make such claims you should have evidence that is more than "i want that feature".
<dobey> OerHeks: i know on my phone there are some options for getting amber alerts and stuff, and i have cm13 on it
<studio__> <k1l_>
<studio__> no feature, jus an statistic
<studio__> just
<dobey> and you were told the figure you asked for, does not exist
<k1l_> studio__: do you realize what you are doing now?
<dobey> so drop it
<OerHeks> settings > wireless network > cellbroadcast ?
<k1l_> studio__: you insult others and make claims, that ubuntu and canonical is betraying customers, just because you want a statistic?
<studio__> k1l_, i asked a simple question
<dobey> OerHeks: settings -> more -> emergency broadcasts
<dobey> OerHeks: and extrem, sever, and AMBER alerts
<k1l_> studio__: this is the reason why your behaviour is not acceptable.
<k1l_> studio__: no, dont make it look like "you are just asking a question"
<dobey> a simple question, asked repeatedly and aggressively
<k1l_> studio__: your behaviour is again very out of the line. and you are doing this on purpose.
<studio__> k1l_, as i said/asked are you blind?
<dobey> ...
<OerHeks> dobey, ah nice. How would i ask for this serious app , on https://forums.ubports.com/category/2/general or https://forum.xda-developers.com/ubuntu-touch ??
<OerHeks> might as well point to amber alert too.
<dobey> OerHeks: i don't think it would be an app; but like i said, i don't know enough details on how to get the necessary bits from the modem on the android side, over into ubuntu, to pop notifications
<OerHeks> dobey me too :-(
<dobey> OerHeks: i would say file a bug against canonical-devices-system-image about there being no cell broadcast support in ubuntu
<dobey> OerHeks: and then we can go from there
<dobey> and countdown to a new thread on ubuntuusers.de (or whatever the domain is)
<k1l_> well, he deleted his account there (or got it deleted, i dont know anymore :) )
<OerHeks> dobey, thank you. I will take the time to write a complete clear bugreport against 'canonical-devices-system-image'
<OerHeks> .. after diner that is :-D
<dobey> k1l_: hah, nice
<dobey> OerHeks: great
<ogra_> popey, LOL !
<ogra_> thats hilarious
<popey> :)
<mterry> jdstrand: why don't I just include both appId schemes in the interface for now?  Rather than a glob
<mterry> I guess your intent is to avoid snapd having any code that refers to existing appids...
<jdstrand> mterry: the two rules I am suggesting won't work with UAL, but (arguably) should. So I'd like to have those intended rules. The glob rules are fine for now, just want to make sure we document the issue with them
<jdstrand> we document the problems with rules in the policy for auditors, researchers and ourselves
<mterry> jdstrand: right, I was just saying that rather than using an insecure glob, we can just allow {touchAppID,snapAppID}
<mterry> But I was guessing that you preferred a glob rather than encoding anything Touch in snapd  :P
<jdstrand> mterry: actually, how about leave the suggest rules, then do @{SNAP_NAME}_* for the Touch glob
<mterry> jdstrand: well has to be a dbus version of the name so we still need the ugly replacement
<jdstrand> mterry: that would not be a security issue since the snaps are still isolated (even if it is less precise from UAL's point of view
<jdstrand> there's a helper for that
<jdstrand> mterry: interfaces/dbus/dbus.go SafePath. give it the snap name + '_'
<mterry> jdstrand: sure -- yeah I use that now.  NAME_COMMAND_* is my preference (just glob the revision, which doesn't have a concept yet in snap profiles)
<jdstrand> let me reread what you have. I thought you had *name*
<mterry> jdstrand: sorry I meant I use SafePath now
<jdstrand> mterry: right, ok. do the go version of fmt.Sprintf("%s*", dbus.SafePath(plug.Snap.Name() + '_'))
<jdstrand> mterry: then you can remove the foobarbaz stuff
<mterry> jdstrand: right but is there a reason not to do Name_Command?
<mterry> or rather name_command_*
<jdstrand> mterry: no, you could do that if you prefer
<mterry> jdstrand: alright will change tomorrow
<jdstrand> mterry: so, fix that, then drop the foobarbaz isolation comment, but leave the FIXME and 'does not provide isolation' comments
<jdstrand> sorry
<mterry> jdstrand: does this not provide isolation?
<jdstrand> leave the FIXME but drop the 'does not provide isolation' comments
<mterry> k
 * jdstrand is multitasking poorly :)
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-17
<allaoua> I have a problem, when I launch applications on my ubuntu touch 15.04 r13 on nexus 5 they launch and then they close very fast !! This is the case for the Music application for example
<pmcgowan> allaoua, its often either a stale .lock file or a corrupt QML cache
<allaoua> pmcgowan, What should I do?
<pmcgowan> allaoua, on command line rm the folder at  .cache/QML/Apps/com.ubuntu.music*
<pmcgowan> allaoua, for the lock file issue see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1576989
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1576989 in qtbase-opensource-src (Ubuntu RTM) "stale lock files freeze apps" [High,Confirmed]
<jgdx> dednick, hey, we're getting close to having something we want to release. Is this something you think could belong in USC? https://code.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/ubuntu-settings-components/printer-components/+merge/314435
<dednick> jgdx: hm. could be. but not so sure about all the backend stuff. Maybe that belongs in "cups-qt"?
<dednick> or something similar
<jgdx> dednick: probably does
<matv3> could someone remind me what the status is for wifi enterprise certitificates? should my device support using CA certs. it appears to ignore it
<dobey> pete-woods: ^^ can you answer matv3 ?
<allaoua> Most applications that I install on my ubuntu touch 15.04 r13 nexus 5 do not work, is this normal?
<matv3> allaoua what channel are you using on that N5?
<allaoua> this command sudo ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable --device=hammerhead --bootstrap
<matv3> allaoua right. I havnt fired up my N5 in a while but i remember that the stable channel wasnt very stable. most apps crash on startup. there is a devel channel thats much more up to date and worked quite well. Just not sure exactly what channel that was.
<matv3> allaoua you should ask on the #ubports channel. They would know
<allaoua> I will try to reinstall it with the channel of "devel_stable /"
<allaoua> thank you
<matv3> allaoua I am not sure if thats the one though. i THINK it was devel_rc-proposed. But again, you may want to doublecheck that as I dont have my N5 here right now
<allaoua> oky I'll try  all them ;)
<matv3> allaoua gd luck :)
<allaoua> thank u
<PAUL___> Hi anyone there
<oSoMoN> Saviq, testing the browser with redesigned tabs bar on M10, and I canât activate any tab. The tabs bar is 3GU tall, if I increase its height Iâm able to activate the bottom half of the tabs. Also, if IÂ plug in a bt mouse so that the app gets windowed, I have no problems activating the tabs. So it looks like a mouse area at the top of a maximized window, too close to the indicators bar, is not activatable. Is that a
<oSoMoN>  known issue by any chance?
<Saviq> oSoMoN, no, but these kind of things might've slipped through the whole WM rework
<Saviq> oSoMoN, please file a bug against qtmir and unity8
<oSoMoN> Saviq, ack, will do right away
<oSoMoN> Saviq, bug #1665726
<ubot5> bug 1665726 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "MouseArea too close to the top indicators bar cannot be activated by touch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1665726
<Saviq> oSoMoN, ack, tx
<Arnold> hi anyone online ?
<Guest97464> hi anyone online ?
<Guest97464> hii anyone online i need help
<Guest97464> is the ubuntu touch is compatable with any android device ?
<NeKit> no, only few ones
<dobey> !devices | Guest97464
<ubot5> Guest97464: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<dobey> !patience | Guest97464
<ubot5> Guest97464: Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
<Guest97464> last question does it work with all android devices
<OerHeks> Guest97464, within the specs, it might going to work. porting is not easy.
<Guest97464> ok sir i have a mobile with 2 gig ram 16 gig memory snapdragon 616 (8core processor 1.4 ghz ) does it work if i port  ?
<OerHeks> key is the vendor drivers, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/
<mterry> jdstrand: how does the ubuntu-app-platform autoconnection work?  Is that store-side declarations?  I believe we'd also like the mir-libs content connection to be automatic
<sergiusens> mterry: there's an assertion data added store side
<sergiusens> to the snap-declaration iirc
<folatt> Version 37 bricked my phone. When I now start my BQ A. E4.5 it blinks once and then goes black.
<mterry> sergiusens: nice sounds good -- should I file a bug against snapd(?) or just poke someone on IRC about adding a new one?
<folatt> Can anyone help me with this?
<dobey> folatt: can you boot it into the bootloader?
<folatt> How does one boot into the bootloader?
<folatt> Oh, I succeeded.
<folatt> There's normal fastboot and recovery.
<dobey> ok, you should be able to reflash using the recovery image from the wiki page for your device
<dobey> !devices | folatt
<ubot5> folatt: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
<dobey> folatt: just avoid --bootstrap and --wipe options, as they will erase all user data
<folatt> Thanks dobey
<sergiusens> mterry: it is mostly the security team that adds them, I don't think there's a formal way to request this yet
<sergiusens> maybe use the new store bug tracker
<mterry> snapstore... right I forgot that got ste up
<mterry> will do
<jdstrand> mterry: normally content snaps are autoconnected if from the same publisher
<jdstrand> mterry: you are ready to have ubuntu-app-platform autoconnectable by everyone? and mir-libs?
<mterry> jdstrand: hey!  every snap that uses Mir wants this connection.  Kinda similar situation to ubuntu-app-platform
<mterry> jdstrand: I thought u-a-p already did autoconnect
<jdstrand> mterry: so you are saying they are stable enough to allow everyone to autoconnect them?
<mterry> Hmm
<jdstrand> mterry: I don't know, it may. it would if all you did was test snaps from Canonical
<mterry> I'm not maintaining either oe
<mterry> one
<mterry> So not sure I can make that promise
<mterry> I believe it autoconnected my 3rd party ones
<jdstrand> mterry: the reason why they are autoconnectable by the publisher is that the publisher should be allowed to break/coordinate their own stuff as desired
<mterry> AlbertA: ^ is mir-libs's layout stable?  Were there plans to reduce what extra libraries it shipped or plans to reorganize its directories?
<jdstrand> mterry: it was always assumed that there would be a handful of blessed content snaps from Canonical
<jdstrand> mterry: but whether or not you are ready to have them be blessed is the question
<jdstrand> mterry: as part of the snap declaration grant, I would add a comment on this
<AlbertA> mterry: I'll make an update, but waiting for pmcgowan
<mterry> jdstrand: I get it, I just don't want to speak for another team  :)
 * jdstrand nods
<AlbertA> mterry: it'll be /usr/lib/<triple>
<sergiusens> jdstrand: mterry more than directory layout, they cannot break API or ABI if this is a global thing
<jdstrand> so yes, the process is currently, ask a store reviewer. for the Ubuntu store and snap declarations, that should be the security team for now. ask me and only if I'm not arround fallback to tyhicks or ratliff
<AlbertA> ummm we can't guarantee that yet with mir-libs
<pmcgowan> AlbertA, mterry if our snaps autoconnect that seems ok for now?
 * mterry shrugs
<mterry> OK
<mterry> pmcgowan: some of our apps are published by ubuntucoredev vs canonical, but sure.  Our unity8-snap-install script can connect what it wants
<pmcgowan> mterry, yeah, and individual's snaps wouldnt
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-18
<UbuntuUser> hello guys, I was wondering how to force all traffic on ubuntu touch through a vpn using the openvpn cli instead of the gui. I got it to connect and enabled ipv4 forwarding, yet its still not forwarding properly. Any advice?
<UbuntuUser> I want to set it up so I can vpn to my network at home that has a mythbuntu box and try to stream through the vpn to my university
<UbuntuUser> anyone here know much about VPN configuration? (Yes, I know its late and/or early)
<UbuntuUser> anyone here know much about VPN configuration on ubuntutouch?
<UbuntuUser> like why MPPE support isn't part of the kernel
<UbuntuUser> and/or how to add it
<dobey> UbuntuUser: i think the vpn configuration only supports OpenVPN currently
 * javier4 Is there any patched wpa_supplicant to work with mediatek devices?
<Andyuser54> Does anyone know how to port to a new device?
<Andyuser54> Alcatel idol 4 6055U
<Andyuser54> I want to develop for this device on Ubuntu touch
<UbuntuUser> dobey: It does say it only supports openvpn but, the configuration won't allow me to connect to my VPN because of the encryption and other options. I tried the CLI and it will connect but, will not properly forward all traffic through it.
<UbuntuUser> I kinda don't want to expose my mythtv box to the internet to stream stuff to my tablet, I'd just like to connect it to the VPN
<UbuntuUser> any advice?
<jm__> hi :) cqn anyone help, i have a remote desktop ubuntu server, and jd like to install the Touch desktop so its easier to use on my phone and tablet etc, but i cant find any straight forward answer about which packages to install? is it possible? (running 16.04LTS, with guacamole, would pref to stay with 16.04, for guacd, but its not essential...)
<silentjack> quit
<silentjack> wrong window lol
<silentjack> not used irc for years, no idea if my prev question is visible?
<silentjack> (asking anyone reading..)
<k1l> no
<k1l> and on irc you dont ask to ask :)
<silentjack> is there another install page i can read? been searching for months for install instructions
<k1l> there are some devices that are officially supported. for other devices you need to make a port first. some devices already have a port made from the community.
<silentjack> i found instructions for arm devices, but i am hoping to install on a remote desktop x86/64
<silentjack> are there only preinstl/live images atm? non that i could add to my sources to install just the desktop onto current system?
<k1l> what device are you talking about? or do you mean a ubuntu desktop with a touch screen?
<silentjack> a server that i use as a remote desktop via rdp and guacamole. touch would make it easier to use on mobile devices
<silentjack> (vps node)
<k1l> ubuntu-touch is the ubuntu for smartphones and tablets. if you look for servers or such better take a look at ubuntu snappy core
<silentjack> its only a server in the sense that it serves my remote desktop
<silentjack> xfce is fine for using on desktop, but i also like to acess via smartphone and tablet, which is why id like to install the touch deaktop
#ubuntu-touch 2017-02-19
<UbuntuUser> kinda weird how theres like not enough options in the openvpn configuration on ubuntu-touch to successfully connect. Nonetheless how like pptp is installed but, MPPE isn't supported. Doesn't quite make sense to have things installed by default that can't be used..
<UbuntuUser> considering how small the filesystem is in the way its configured..
<dobey> UbuntuUser: not weird, openvpn != pptp, and i'm pretty sure openvpn is the only officially supported protocol. pptp is not there yet
<Tofe> Hi!
<Tofe> Maybe you guys know: I'd like to use libhybris/compat in another project, but the build doesn't find "gui/NativeBufferAlloc.h". I Googled it, but it seems it's a ghost... Where is it declared ?
<Snadder> Hey. Is there a pad I can get from the store at the moment?
<Snadder> is the cervantes 3 any good?
<Snadder> I have the 4.5
<Snadder> ANyone have any tips on how to get the facebook app working?
<Snadder> It says something about unable to open account window.
<Snadder> Even after I did add the facebook details in that windows.. and confirmed it on facebook successfully
<Snadder> *account window*
