#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-15
<hads> Morning
<ibeardslee> good of you to join us ;)
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<ibeardslee> mutter mutter evil hp mutter
<ibeardslee> priced a laptop for a collegue .. 31c more for FreeDOS instead of Windows
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> this comes as no surprise
<ibeardslee> that would imply that each time I use Windows .. MS needs to pay me 31 cents
<ajmitch> Somehow I don't think they'll see it like that
<ajmitch> Maybe that it'd be 31c over the life of the computer
<ibeardslee> well it does mean that it costs less than free software .. so I should be able to install it to what ever machine I want. .. no?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> MS in their infinite generosity have given you a license to use it on one machine
<ibeardslee> but it costs less than free software.
<ibeardslee> I think it is time to look further afield for linux laptops than HP
<ajmitch> how I love screwing up upgrades & having to use obscure apt options to force it through :)
<Atamira> dont dell have linux laptops?
<Atamira> granted, not on the nz dell website
<Atamira> what about laptops with no OS on it ibeardslee ?
<ibeardslee> Atamira: where from?  Happy to go that way if I can find them .. for sale and supported in NZ.
<ibeardslee> I tried getting a Dell laptop in NZ without Windows.  Clearly on their website, until you go to buy it.
<ibeardslee> When I called asking about it, they removed it from the nz website
<Atamira> yeah...its not available here..wasnt in oz either when i was there
<Atamira> http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php
<Atamira> they had laptops and desktops with no OS on them
<ibeardslee> we are now getting our PCs from Silicon Systems in Petone
<Atamira> we have one of those up here in auckland
<Atamira> but pbtechnologies in cheaper
<Atamira> tho they do add the gst on it AFTER wards
<ibeardslee> unfortunately they sell Toshiba laptops .. which although nice hardware .. Toshiba told me they won't sell laptops without Windows
<hads> ibeardslee: Not surprising at all, I've had several suppliers of Linux laptops arrive and then disappear over the years.
<ojwb> morning
<thumper> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ojwb> my partner's just upgraded to lucid, and spent some time hunting through the desktop config options trying to move the buttons back to the right
<ojwb> she couldn't believe you can change all sorts of theme frippery, but not that
<mwhudson> ojwb: http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/
<ojwb> they don't seem to work
 * ajmitch preferred the windows 3.1 layout
 * ojwb thinks these overlapping windows are a passing fad
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-16
<ibeardslee> crossing fingers I may have throttled HP enough to do 'the right thing'
<ojwb> knock 0.31$ off the price?
<ojwb> or add it to the windows ones more likely!
<ibeardslee> actually being able to point to a windows laptop saying I want that with freedos and knowing that it'll be $x less than the windows price
<ajmitch> HP are such strong supporters of open source in some areas, and seemingly quite against it in others
<ibeardslee> currently waiting to discover if it is just the 'business' range, how much 'x' will be and if I have spoken too soon
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: as it was explained to me that NZ is just a small market
<ajmitch> and the number of people who'd want a non-standard install is a tiny fraction of a small market?
<ibeardslee> peronally I don't accept that .. well I accept that we are a small market, but in the whole interweb thing .. it's a global market
<ibeardslee> if something is available in the US, there should minimal reasons for restricting them to that market
<ajmitch> right, but global market doesn't mean that they can ignore that they are shipping physical products
<ajmitch> it'd be more of an internal company issue, that they probably have a different section of the company dealing with asia-pacific
<ibeardslee> eg why can't we have this here .. http://icanhaz.com/hp-8540w
<ibeardslee> ajmitch: it probably costs the same to ship from the US as it does from where ever in asia the build the machines that end up in nz
<lifeless> ibeardslee: so the limits are support, marketing material, warehousing, presales knowledge
<lifeless> ibeardslee: dell are the same, eu and us they'll sell with Ubuntu, but its rare elsewhere.
<ibeardslee> limits with support .. meh, all HP support goes via somewhere else anyway
<ibeardslee> marketing material .. meh, the marketing will be coming from the OSS communities when people ask where they can get laptops without Windows
<ibeardslee> presales knowledge .. meh .. see above
<lifeless> ibeardslee: thats your opinion; the suits opinion is what matters.
<ibeardslee> sure it's my opinion. but my opinion of what the community may be able to do is better than what a suit thinks is reasonable.
<ibeardslee> there is much too much "but the suits opinions" etc going on
<ibeardslee> if we let the suits opinions manage what we can do, we'd all be running windows with iPhones and the OSS industry/community wouldn't exist
<ojwb> ibeardslee: Bdale Garbee is a DD and works for HP - might be worth talking to him if you get stuck
<ojwb> apparently it's their policy to make sure stuff things work under Linux, though I'm not sure how official that is
<ajmitch> he's the linux CTO at HP
 * ojwb didn't know that, but I knew he was fairly senior
<ajmitch> I believe HP even had some netbook with an ubuntu derivative, and a custom HP UI
<ibeardslee> ojwb: from my experience this issue is not getting HP gear working with Linux, but more the ease of getting it without the Legacy OS in the first place.
<ojwb> sure, I'm just saying that there is at least some internal pro-linux-ness
<ibeardslee> with them supporting LCA, there is bound to be
<ibeardslee> with them supporting LCA, yes there is
<ojwb> true
<ajmitch> & sponsoring a number of debian machines
<ibeardslee> but that seems to be the server end .. I'm working from workstation, end user end
* You're now known as ubuntulog
* You're now known as ubuntulog_
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<ibeardslee> so it seems the suits saw the light
<ibeardslee> We/HP can offer you a FreeDOS version of any 'commercial'
<ibeardslee> Windows desktop or notebook on our website.
<ibeardslee> The saving would be $200 off the list price of a Windows 7
<ibeardslee> Professional SKU
<Atamira> yay ?
<ibeardslee> This option would not be available on Consumer items because
<ibeardslee> these products are not configurable using the CTO tool
<ibeardslee> That's where 'We' = Ascent
<ibeardslee> I believe that deal should alos be available through other resellers/retailers
<ibeardslee> Atamira: Yes, that is a 'yay' :)
<Atamira> yay !
<Atamira> tho hp..mrrr
<ibeardslee> I'm going to be asking if HP can do a press release (in conjunction with Ascent? and NZOSS) about this.
<Atamira> if its good publicity for you
<Atamira> why not
<Atamira> my company does all its PC stuff through Dell
 * ibeardslee doesn't work for Ascent or HP
<Atamira> then who is ascent?
<ibeardslee> I had bought Dell at a previous job, but after massive fail on their part I just won't go there again
<ibeardslee> http://www.ascent.co.nz/
<ibeardslee> they've been the poor people stuck between HP and a raving fanatic
<Atamira> ahh
<Atamira> probably why i hadnt heard of them before
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> ascent are reasonably well known as an online retailer
<ajmitch> they've generally been pretty decent over the years
<Atamira> do they carter to the general public or mainly to commercial owners?
<Atamira> sorry..commercial users
<ajmitch> general public
<ibeardslee> yeah, we don't even get a discout through them
<Atamira> do they have a store in auckland?
<Atamira> i have 4 local pc places
<thumper> morning
<ajmitch> they appear to have only a wellington store, coincidentally in catalyst house
<ajmitch> & they don't hold stock there, it's pretty much just an online business
<mwhudson> morning
<Atamira> nite all
<Atamira> i love working graveyard shifts
<karora> chilts: Just signing up for AppsDNS and found it odd that the 'sign up' buttons on the front page weren't links.
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-17
<thumper> I need a one liner command to pipe into to take input like "/a/b/c/d/.foo/e/g" and print out "/a/b/c/d"
<thumper> I'm sure either sed or awk could do this
<thumper> but my fu is low in these
<mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo/.*/' | ?
<mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo/\1/' | ?
<mwhudson> rather
<mwhudson> aareareasfda
<mwhudson> thumper: | sed -e 's%\(.*\)/.foo%\1%' | ?
<mwhudson> maybe third time lucky
<thumper> with a tweak that works
 * thumper thrashes the server
<thumper> oh FFS
<ojwb> or simpler: sed 's%/\.foo.*%%'
<thumper> unique isn't installed on the server
<ojwb> ITYM uniq
<thumper> ah..
<thumper> yeah
<thumper> I was wondering why it wanted package 'john'
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<thumper> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> ibeardslee: so did i understand right that for any 'business' hp laptop on ascent, i can get it $200 cheaper with freedos?
 * ibeardslee is hoping
<ibeardslee> but .. "I am still getting HP to clarify whether we can advertise this on our website for all end users"
<ibeardslee> if that isn't the case I'll start throwing wobblies again
<ojwb> they really should milk this for some cheap publicity
<ojwb> though perhaps HP don't want MS to hear about it
<ibeardslee> ojwb: I'm trying to get them to get a press release sorted .. I want it milked
<timClicks> this may sound silly but are lp packaging recipes as good as they seem to be on the label.. is it possible to bring in arbitrarily large numbers of dependencies (as long as they have a bzr source)  and have a deb at the end?
<ajmitch> the packaging rules still have to explain how to put it all together
<timClicks> I see
<timClicks> Makes sense
<ajmitch> it's not just a case of listing a whole lot of upstream branches, hitting the switch & having magic happen :)
<ajmitch> but merging in a packaging branch on top of upstream code
<ajmitch> I haven't used recipes, so I can't really explain details
<timClicks> hrm... I've just started hacking on a  C++ project. They use a shell scripts to install the dependencies & cmake to compile
<ajmitch> there are a few packages in ubuntu that use cmake
<timClicks> okay, that's a good sign
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be too hard to look at them for inspiration
<timClicks> in fact, they've moved to providing a remixed ubuntu just to get people up & running
<ajmitch> that seems a bit extreme
<ajmitch> what's the project?
<timClicks> opencog
<timClicks> lp:opencog
<ajmitch> so the branch appears to have packaging info in it already
<ajmitch> not particularly up to date, but it's there
<timClicks> mmhmm
<ojwb> debhelper 7 minimal rules files can handle cmake build systems
<ojwb> or at least the saner ones
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-18
<ojwb> is it just me, or does launchpad time out as often as it successfully loads a page for other people too?
<thumper> ojwb: it's just you
<thumper> ojwb: what are you looking at?
<ojwb> just trying to attach a tiny patch to a bug
<ojwb> on the 3rd attempt I managed to
<ojwb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wv2/+bug/645023
<ojwb> 222 bytes
<ajmitch> fairly small, though the patch size itself probably wouldn't matter too much
<ojwb> indeed, unless it was large enough to make the request a problematic size for something
 * ojwb tries traceroute
<ojwb> wow, bad packet loss at ae-43-43.ebr2.London1.Level3.net
<ojwb> ~80%
<ojwb> and my ISP dropping a few % as is po4-10G.ar2.LAX2.gblx.net
 * ajmitch isn't seeing any packet loss at all from here, so maybe a slightly different route
<ojwb> i don't from the UK, but that only shares the last hop
<ojwb> ajmitch: does yours go via level3.net all the way from LA to SJC to NY to london?
<ajmitch> fx networks, asianetcom, los angeles, san jose, NY, london
<ajmitch> mtr to launchpad.net
<ojwb> yeah, but is all the LA->London bit on level3.net?
<ajmitch> yes it is
<ajmitch> so with wv2 being in universe, there'd be a very high chance that the patch you attached wouldn't get seen for awhile
<ajmitch> less so now that people are actively searching for patches, but the best option is to have a usable debdiff & subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ojwb> i think I'll just push the fix at the debian end
<ojwb> i just stuck the patch in the ubuntu bug as someone had already filed one and it might help anyone finding it
<ajmitch> it'd be easier, though it doesn't really look like an RC bug
<ajmitch> much appreciated :)
<ojwb> it probably isn't
<ojwb> unless the parsing of random data is exploitable
<ojwb> but anyway, that doesn't mean it can't get fixed, especially once squeeze is out
<ajmitch> which will hopefully be soonish
<ojwb> indeed
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> and bye as I get told **System Restart Required**
<Atamira> heh..i have one of those too
<Atamira> well..you're reboot took longer than mine
<Atamira> your*
<ibeardslee> reboot + remember to log back in again
<ibeardslee> remote reboots always make me nervous
<Atamira> ahh
<Atamira> fair enough
<Atamira> darn it. using the updated driver file for my video card, cause lag on normal operations..
<Atamira> moving the mouse for instance
<Atamira> the last driver file was the same
<ibeardslee> sounds less than ideal
<Atamira> it is..slows everything down
<Atamira> only bonus is that it makes the graphics much better
<Atamira> and i can play 3d games
<Atamira> but using the browser is slow..specially on facebook
 * ibeardslee wanders away to learn more about git
<snail> hmmm, our VPN is a little theoretical this morning...
<chrismsnz> theoretical?
<chrismsnz> oh, and morning
<snail> chrismsnz: as in 'we theoretically have a VPN connecting us to our data-centre-hosted mission-critical application, but in practice we appear not to'
<chrismsnz> heh
<chrismsnz> we have a vpn running on a multi-homed box, have to twiddle the routing every time we reboot it for it to come up at all
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-19
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-20
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> mornin
<Atamira> oh..afternoon
#ubuntu-nz 2010-11-21
<zapzupnz> afternoon, sunday morning
<zapzupnz> synonym to me
<Atamira> time is relative sometimes
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<snail> anyone gearing up for the mixandmash competition may be interested in http://opensourceexile.blogspot.com/2010/11/howto-deep-linking-into-nzetc-site.html
<Atamira> mornin
<ojwb> good morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-11-14
<olly_> hmm, are there any https ubuntu mirrors?
 * olly_ is failing to find any if there are
 * ajmitch doesn't know of any 
<ibeardslee> neither
<olly_> i can see why there might not be
<olly_> be a nice way to work around this annoying http proxy which blocks various content-types though
<mwhudson> i doubt it as gpg is relied on for integrity?
<olly_> it would provide privacy as to what software you are installing
<olly_> or have installed
<mwhudson> true
<olly_> hmm, battery monitor seems to think my battery is 95.8%
<olly_> always
<mwhudson> "look at olly, he's installing PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE!!"
<olly_> the icon looks saner, as does the number when I pull out the power
<olly_> if I was, I doubt it would be via apt
<mwhudson> i installed skype earlier
<ajmitch> vrms will be very unhappy
<mwhudson> i think on the whole i'm happy about that
<olly_> my family still badger me about skype
<olly_> you'd think they'd have got the message by now
<chilts> same here, I just refuse to do it
<chilts> and yet they still come
<sadsun> mornin
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> and back shortly
<sadsun> wb
<ibeardslee> I love it when a remote reboot on a server works
<sadsun> godmode huh :P
<ibeardslee> no, just god
<sadsun> hehe^^
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<sadsun> mornin'
<mwhudson> morning
<olly_> morniong
<chilts> olly_: you back in NZ-land? .. oh wait, you're at OSDC now?
<thumper> morning
<chilts> yay for figlet :)
<ibeardslee> figlet?
<mwhudson>   __ _       _      _
<mwhudson>  / _(_) __ _| | ___| |_
<mwhudson> | |_| |/ _` | |/ _ \ __|
<mwhudson> |  _| | (_| | |  __/ |_
<mwhudson> |_| |_|\__, |_|\___|\__|
<mwhudson>        |___/
<thumper> non-monospace fonts FTL
<mwhudson> verily
#ubuntu-nz 2011-11-15
<olly_> chilts: i'm at osdc (so canberra)
<chilts> ah cool :)
<chilts> thumper: yeah, I switched to the Ubuntu Mono font and it's lovely :)
 * ajmitch still hasn't switched to that, should probably try it out  :)
<chilts> to be honest, I've been really really impressed by it since I've been using it ... it is definately more pleasurable on the screen :)
<chilts> do it ... seeing a page of code with syntax highlighting in that font is gorgeous!
 * thumper just switched to ubuntu mono on chat
 * thumper wonders if it works in emacs
<chilts> it does :)
 * chilts has it
<ajmitch> of course switching fonts in ubuntu is an ordeal now
<chilts> I can paste you a snippet if you like
<chilts> thumper: (set-default-font "-misc-Ubuntu Mono-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1")
<chilts> took me a while to get there and I'm not sure that's the best way, but it works for me :)
 * thumper used "set default font" menu item :)
<chilts> heh, I turned my emacs menus off about 7 years ago :)
<ibeardslee> mutter mutter soaked mutter mutter
<sadsun> good morning :D
 * sadsun hands over a towel. :P
<ajmitch> morning
 * sadsun slides over a hot cup of coffee ...........cU
<ibeardslee> mmm coffee
<sadsun> cheers
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> miserable day
<ajmitch> beautiful sunny day
 * Atamira mutters about being wet and rain
<ajmitch> we had that for maybe half an hour yesterday
<mwhudson> better by teatime apparently
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> is there an ubuntu iso mirror in nz?
<ajmitch> not that I know of
<ajmitch> though...
<ajmitch> 10:01 < Pyromanik> this field seems like it'll work
<ajmitch> bah
<ajmitch> silly copy & paste
<ajmitch> http://mirror.ihug.co.nz/ubuntu-releases/ seems to have them
<mwhudson> yeah http://nz.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/11.10/ too
<mwhudson> 3.5 meg a second, nice
<ajmitch> not too bad
<olly_> morning
<karora> morning all :-)
#ubuntu-nz 2011-11-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<sadsun> mornin'
<hads> The last two mornings evolution has become unkillable after saying something like 'Saving user interface state'. I think I'll have to get around to trying something different.
<ibeardslee> I use claws mail as well
<ibeardslee> no calendaring though
<hads> I tried claws for a while, must give it another go. Don't care about calendar. It seems very difficult to find the perfect mail client.
<sadsun> thunderbird?
<hads> Will give it another go, it just doesn't do it for me. Keyboard shortcuts especially.
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<sadsun> mornin'
<thumper> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> hads: i use notmuch & really like it, but it's probably not for everyone :-)
<thumper> hads: I moved to thunderbird
<thumper> hads: it has a nifty gmail conversation view
<thumper> hads: which is awesome most of the time, but a little slow over imap for massive conversations
<mwhudson> thumper: like that enormous unity whinge thread? :-)
<mwhudson> although that's gotten a bit more positive again in the last few days
<thumper> mwhudson: not really
<sadsun> unity is meant for touch-screens...
<ibeardslee> it is interesting that unity has taught me a bit more about not relying on the mouse so much
<sadsun> its ugly with those ridiculous big buttons, when u use just the mouse
<sadsun> do u have a touch-screen?
<ibeardslee> they can be made smaller (harder to do in unity-2d though)
<ibeardslee> nope
<sadsun> I use gnome-shell with docky
<thumper> sadsun: the only truly massive buttons are on the home screen of the dash, and that is changing
<thumper> sadsun: no I don't have a touch screen
<thumper> I use unity on my laptop and desktop with synergy to connect
<sadsun> I see, nice, why is Ubuntu leaving gnome behind?
<thumper> sadsun: ubuntu has plans beyond what gnome currently has
<thumper> sadsun: I'm sure you've heard the announcements about tablets, tvs and phones
<sadsun> aye, I did
<thumper> there are designs for a (mostly) consistent UI across all form factors
<thumper> they do look very nice
<thumper> and unfortunatley company confidential right now
<thumper> controlling our own desktop shell gives us the flexibility to evolve and change
<sadsun> I see, I do would like to have ubuntu on my smartphone
<thumper> a lot of the gnome-shell core is controlled by red hat
<thumper> people think "hey it is just gnome"
<thumper> but the core committers, those that accept patches, work elsewhere
<thumper> and we did hit issues with the first unity shell that was based on mutter and clutter
<ibeardslee> heh clutter
<ibeardslee> it does seem that there is a disconnect with the customer base, and aq bunch of dissatisfaction with the unity interface.
<sadsun> couldnt canonical just merge with red hat?
<ibeardslee> it seems to have been somewhat of tha PR disaster
<ibeardslee> sadsun: Nooooooo
<sadsun> o_O
<sadsun> bad thing?
<ibeardslee> very
<thumper> ibeardslee: quite a few of the changes were driven by user testing
<thumper> ibeardslee: the user testing group is now including existing ubuntu users
<thumper> ibeardslee: where in the past they weren't
<ibeardslee> redhat and canonical are very different beasts
<thumper> sadsun: merging will never happen
<ibeardslee> thumper: don't see much of that being pushed out in articles.
<ibeardslee> yet to see a "Canonical: yeap we could have done better, but this is what we are doing and here is the direction we are going"
<thumper> ibeardslee: there are some, but people don't like reading about good news
<thumper> sensationalist articles get readers
<ibeardslee> yes. but so do big announcements about direction
<ibeardslee> I do imagine that there'd be a lot of "too late" responces to some directional announcements
<ibeardslee> maybe I'm just following the wrong information streams to catch the good news
<sadsun> hmm, OMGubuntu posted an interesting article: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/tomorrow-the-internet-starts-to-die/
<ibeardslee> I like ubuntu, and what Canonical have done to help bring Linux to the masses.
<thumper> ibeardslee: so what do you read?
<ibeardslee> admitedly not a lot, mostly what I stumble across via twitter/facebook feeds .. the dumbing down of society.
<ibeardslee> do you have any recommendations?
<ibeardslee> happy to help spread the good news
<thumper> ibeardslee: not off the top of my head
<hads> mwhudson: I've (very briefly) looked at notmuch but was put off by the local storage.
<olly_> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-11-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<sadsun> mornin'
<ibeardslee> sadsun: where are you?
<sadsun> the netherlands
<ibeardslee> an ex-pat?
<sadsun> nah, looking for a job in kiwiland
<ibeardslee> ahh
<ibeardslee> doing what?
<sadsun> biochemistry if possible, but I am up for almost anything
<ibeardslee> heh .. not much call for biochemists at Catalyst
<sadsun> whats that?
<ibeardslee> catalyst.net.nz
<sadsun> i know a lil bit php... I'm editing my website as a hobby... but no expert on it  though
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<thumper> morning
<Atamira> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2011-11-20
<magazine> hi, dropped in to see what's happening after visiting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NZTeam
<magazine> that page was last edited in 2088.... where can i find some current info?
<Atamira> did we fast forward to 2088?
<magazine> Atamira:  lol 2008
<magazine> so what's happening?
<ajmitch> there are people around, but usually not on a sunday evening
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ajmitch> sigh, laptop didn't want to suspend before I had to head to work
<ajmitch> hard power-off is the best option for the impatient
<ibeardslee> couldn't you just close the lid and head to work and fire it up again?
<ajmitch> for some reason the CPU fan was spinning away like it was cooking, it'd mean putting a hot running laptop into my bag
<ajmitch> maybe not too much of a problem with the weather today, though :)
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-12
<ibeardslee> mornong
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<Atamira> morena
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> morning
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<hads> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ojwb> there's a ~76% solar eclipse in a few minutes
<ajmitch> somewhere, beyond those clouds
<ojwb> it's sunny in wellington
 * chilts made a pinhole camera
<chilts> came out quite well :D
<ojwb> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenelopy/8183381065/in/photostream
<ojwb> and the technology: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenelopy/8183386223/in/photostream/
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-14
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<ibeardslee> shit .. opened up the wrong irc screen session first ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> hmm Evolution in Quantal is a POS.
<ajmitch> I suspect it's not getting a lot of love upstream these days
<ibeardslee> which is sad, because Ubuntu still hasn't completed the switch to Thunderbird
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> hads: ping
<hads> mwhudson: pong
<mwhudson> hads: hi, sorry about the delay
<mwhudson> hads: i have a couple of electronics gadgets i want to build, was wondering if you could supply the parts
<mwhudson> or even the prebuilt gadgets :)
<hads> mwhudson: Sure, probably the former, possibly the latter.
<mwhudson> hads: one is a way of powering on and off this 5v device i have from software
<lifeless> mwhudson: do you want to build, or to have ;)
<mwhudson> lifeless: well, i want to have
<mwhudson> hads: it's got a 5.5 mm OD 2.1 mm ID dc jack so i'm thinking a dc plug -> bare wire -> usb controlled relay -> bare wire -> dc connector type assembly
<hads> Yup sounds about right.
<mwhudson> hads: the other is a way of completely unplugging a usb device from software, which i guess is a similar hack, although i don't know if you need relay on each wire or if one on the +5v wire is enough
<hads> I've wanted to do the same myself actually.
<hads> Let me think about it.
<mwhudson> for the former task in our lab we have a bunch of 240v pdus on the upside of the 5v power supplies
<mwhudson> but that's kinda ridiculous
<hads> It's more than one?
<mwhudson> well
<mwhudson> we have a lab with 50 odd devices that need to be power controlled
<mwhudson> for development on my desk i have 1
<hads> Ah right. Can I ask what they are?
<mwhudson> hads: sure, they're arm developer boards
<mwhudson> a panda in my case
<hads> Cool.
<mwhudson> (actually i have three boards, but one is a broken panda and another is a beagle xm and noone seems to care about omap3 any more in linaro)
<hads> I just bought in an XM for someone yesterday.
 * ajmitch wants to do something slightly simpler, a lap counter/timer for a slot car track :)
<mwhudson> i found a place you could buy usb to bare wire cables, of course ironically it costs a lot more than a regular usb cable :)
<hads> ajmitch: You need lasers :)
<mwhudson> i would like to avoid soldering if i can, but even i can manage wire strippers
<ajmitch> hads: obviously
<ajmitch> though I think I may keep it a *little* simpler than that
<hads> Yeah, people ask about custom cables occastionally. 90% of the time it's cheaper and quicker to get a normal one and cut it in half.
<hads> Hmm new word.
<hads> mwhudson: Are you in a rush? I could probably whip something up but it might take a while.
<mwhudson> hads: no not really
<mwhudson> hads: define "a while"?  weeks, months?
<hads> I would say weeks but then it's not too many weeks until Christmas :/
<mwhudson> heh
<mwhudson> early ish 2013 would be fine
<hads> Okay cool, let me add it to my list :)
<mwhudson> heh
<hads> Every time I try and start working on something for myself I get more work for someone else :)
<hads> mwhudson: ~$50 https://www.yoctopuce.com/EN/products/usb-actuators/yocto-relay
<mwhudson> hads: panda requires 3a :(
<mwhudson> hads: i had found these: http://www.sedonia.co.nz/TCTEC-Super4-USB-relay-module.htm
<hads> Seems cheap enough. You'd need to figure out if you can talk to it easily.
<mwhudson> they have some demo c code
<mwhudson> it's some ftdi chip
<hads> http://www.sigma-shop.com/product/7/usb-relay-controller-one-channel-box.html
<mwhudson> i wonder if they just show up as /dev/ttySOMETHING when you plug them in
<mwhudson> oh heh
<mwhudson> the manual has as sample code:
<mwhudson> stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 9600 // the relay 1 go ON.
<mwhudson> echo $'\xff\x01\x01' > ttyUSB0
<hads> Yeah that last one shows up as a USB serial port.
<hads> So that would be super easy.
<hads> That's how I'd build it too.
<mwhudson> or /dev/serial/by-path/$foo for added sanity
<mwhudson> i guess the one with 4 relays would mean you could build more stuff for less $$
<hads> There probably isn't much point me reinventing those wheels.
<mwhudson> i guess not, i should probably just buy a dc cable and a relay and get the wire strippers out
<ojwb> so i complain to air nz about them using poli which is windows only
<ojwb> and they assume I'm a mac user
<ojwb> I feel insulted!
<hads> mwhudson: In the next week or so I'll have some 5.5/2.1mm DC cable pigtails :)
<hads> ojwb: AirNZ are terrible.
<mwhudson> but all other airlines are worse
<ojwb> sadly there aren't great alternatives much of the time
<mwhudson> hads: oh cool!
<hads> ojwb: Extortionate CC fees that aren't reflective of what they actually cost.
<ojwb> charging for actually paying is such a budget airline tactic too
<ojwb> i can't really see why they're trying to position themselves in that area of the market
<hads> The are a budget airline now as much as they don't like to admit it.
<mwhudson> hads: do you have terminal blocks (i think that's the right word?) appropriate for connecting the ends that won't go into the relay?
<mwhudson> jaycar only seem to have hilariously huge ones in stock
<hads> ojwb: They must be charged around 1.5% CC fees from the bank, on cheaper flights with AirNZ you can be paying 10-20%
<G> ojwb: wasn't it at one point that AirNZ would waive the fee if you couldn't pay with POLi because you didn't use Windows?
<hads> I think they still may.
<ojwb> they certainly don't automatically now
<G> ojwb: I think you had to call up and moan at them
<hads> No you have to ring and try and get someone to understand.
<ojwb> hmm, the email reply said I could phone, but "not all fares may be available through reservations"
<hads> mwhudson: Not sure what type of thing you mean sorry, link?
<G> personally dare I say it, I've had better service from Qantas lately compared to AirNZ (online checkin certainly is a plus too)
<mwhudson> hads: http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=HM3196&keywords=hm3194&form=KEYWORD
<mwhudson> hads: except only one of them, and smaller than the 10a rated one
<hads> I always fly Emirates when I have the option.
<hads> mwhudson: Ah right, sorry I don't stock those. The local electrical wholesaler will have them, 6A is the smallest.
<mwhudson> oh right
<mwhudson> so like bunnings or equivalent?
<ojwb> sadly there doesn't seem to be any alternative airline for wellington to dunedin
<ojwb> perhaps I could fly via auckland with jetstar, though it doesn't let me book it without 26 hours in auckland
<ajmitch> flying via auckland on jetstar is getting pretty desperate
<ojwb> indeed
<ojwb> auckland airport is even further from dunedin than dunedin airport is
<ajmitch> why would you want to visit dunedin anyway?
<ajmitch> it's a bit damp down here today
<ojwb> conference thing in december
<ajmitch> I see
<chilts> it's a bit damp down there in December
 * chilts speculates
<ajmitch> might be
<ojwb> hopefully they're holding it indoors
<ojwb> if anyone fancies meeting for lunch on 4th or 7th, let me know
<ajmitch> are you available on the evening of the 4th? that's when we have our monthly codecraft meeting on campus
<ajmitch> 5:30 on the tuesday afternoon if you are around for it
<ojwb> might be
<ojwb> there's stuff on the 5th and 6th evenings, but I don't know of anything on 4th yet
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-15
<ojwb> it seems to be quite loosely organised so far though
<ajmitch> http://codecraft.org.nz/ run by people like _thumper_ & thomi
 * ojwb tries to picture someone like both of them
<ajmitch> you may have met them even
<ojwb> i have
<ojwb> at kiwi pycon in wellington (and thumper at lca too I think)
<hads> mwhudson: Bunnings probably has something. I was thinking about Redpaths, Radcliff, Rexel, Ideal or something.
<mwhudson> oh right
<mwhudson> i know where the local ideal is at least
<mwhudson> i guess stewarts might be worth a look too
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morning
<hads> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<chilts> if Twitter is down, where do we say "OH NOES TWITTER IS DOWN!"?
<ajmitch> facebook
<chilts> Hmmm, it's a sad sad world out there
 * chilts stays in for the day
<mwhudson> chilts: compuserve
<chilts> heh
<hads> hah
<hads> mwhudson: https://nicegear.co.nz/cables-connectors/dc-jack-male-55x21mm-with-1m-pigtail/
<mwhudson> hads: do you have female too?
<hads> Not at the moment sorry.
<mwhudson> hads: will you be getting them?  if so, i'll wait, if not i guess i'll order a couple anyway
<ojwb> morning
<hads> mwhudson: Will get some.
<mwhudson> hads: awesome
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-16
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-17
<ojwb> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-11-18
<hads> Ouch; https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=39692
<lifeless> noice
<ojwb> morning
<ojwb> hads: android uses the mayan calendar I guess
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<mwhudson> thumper: do you know when you're going to be in wellington yet?
<thumper> morning
<thumper> mwhudson: will be passing through in Jan
<thumper> wedding is the 19th
<thumper> and we'll be starting the weekend before
<thumper> and taking several days to get up
<ajmitch> thumper: not heading over to LCA?
<thumper> so perhaps around the 15th ish
<thumper> no, wedding comes first
<ajmitch> family member?
<thumper> rachel's sister
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> LCA is a good excuse for me to visit family in canberra, at least
 * thumper nods
<mwhudson> thumper: we were very vaguely thinking of visiting dunedin on wellington anniversary weekend but that's the weekend of this wedding it seems :)
<thumper> haha
 * mwhudson appears to have forgotten his airnz security question answer
<ojwb> "yes, I did pack these bags myself"
<mwhudson> i'm talking about the one that involves way too much flash
<ajmitch> one of those wonderful sites
<ojwb> oh, i've never seen that one
<ojwb> sometimes it lets you in to an "accessible" site
<ajmitch> don't worry, you can still reset your password & security question by email
<ajmitch> sort of defeats the purpose of a separate question
<ojwb> https://myairnz.com/myairnz/initAccessibleLinks.do
<mwhudson> ajmitch: you can?
<ajmitch> I managed to, since I'd misspelt the answer to the security question
<mwhudson> i guess i'll just phone them up and social engineer my way back into my account
<ajmitch> shouldn't be hard
<ajmitch> does the forgot username or password not allow you through to a password reset eventually?
<mwhudson> you have to answer the security question before it will email you a password reset
<mwhudson> and if you get it wrong 4 times, it locks you out for 10 minutes
<thomi> lifeless: any plans to release a new version of pyjunitxml? We'd like the fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/pyjunitxml/+bug/892293 to be packaged in raring :)
<ajmitch> I'm sure I managed to get past that point even without the right answer
<thomi> otherwise I'll build it into our PPA
<lifeless> thomi: lets see
<thomi> The latest release into raring seems to be 0.6-1 which doesn't contain the fix
<ajmitch> the other alternative is to just add that change as a patch against the package in raring, but an upload to debian would be preferable
<ajmitch> if you're lucky you might even get the change past the debian release team
<lifeless> thats correct
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> I want to hand this off to the python team in debian
<lifeless> release done to pypi
<thomi> cool - in the meantime I'll build a version to our PPA
<ajmitch> though the DPMT uses SVN still for packages
<lifeless> ajmitch: shrug, I won't care at that point.
<ajmitch> fair enough
<lifeless> I'm short on time at the moment, if someone else wants to NMU it to debian, or even do the DPMT prep for it, that would be great
<ajmitch> I could probably svn-inject it there if I find some time for it soon
<lifeless> well, packaging only is trivial :)
<ajmitch> it's dealing with the piles of open bugs :)
<lifeless> hmm, shouldn't be any/many on junitxml
<lifeless> but who knows, debbugs is shocking
<ajmitch> 3 there, 2 of them minor & 1 asking for a python3 version
<thomi> ajmitch: If you have the time, I'll swap you: A beer at the next codecraft in return for a source package of pyjunitxml with those fixes for quantal & raring :)
<ajmitch> thomi: fixing for quantal is harder, for sure
<ajmitch> just requires convincing people that it's a worthwhile fix to make, the patch looks simple at least
<thomi> ajmitch: well, I was just going to dput it into my PPA
<thomi> which all our CI & AL jobs look at
<thomi> so that's good enough for me :)
#ubuntu-nz 2013-11-11
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> chilts: how is the little one?
<hads> morning
<chilts> ibeardslee: crying ... but in a good way :)
<chilts> yeah, it's been up and down but it's pretty amazing saying "OMG, what have I _done_!"
<mwhudson> how old now?
<chilts> 3 and a bit weeks
<chilts> am learning a lot from his actions now, so I know some of his cries and some other actions, but every now and then the piece of the puzzle doesn't quite fit
<chilts> which is fine, 'coz there will always be those times
<ibeardslee> you'll probably discover that those times will exist for another 18 years or so
<chilts> absolutely
<chilts> perhaps more (in this day and age)
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-11-12
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-11-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> .. back shortly
<ibeardslee> and back again
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-11-14
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2013-11-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<kcj> Morning.
<thomi> morning
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-11-10
<olly> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<thumper> o/
#ubuntu-nz 2014-11-11
<olly> "morning"
<ibeardslee> oh yeah that too
<mwhudson> whut
#ubuntu-nz 2014-11-12
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-11-13
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<hads> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-11-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch_> morning
<hads_> morning
<aames> And a windy horrible morning it is
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-09
<chilts> afternoon
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-10
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<chilts> morning, just
<olly_> the url in topic doesn't work
<olly_> http://ubuntu-nz.org that is
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-11
<hads> morning
<ibeardslee> olly_: hmm, how long have you noticed that?
<olly_> ibeardslee: i just slightly randomly tried it before I said
<olly_> wayback has it from last december https://web.archive.org/web/20141218100915/http://ubuntu-nz.org/
<olly_> just a redirect to the ubuntu site then though
<olly_> long ago it redirected to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NZTeam it seems
<olly_> looks like canonical control the domain, fwiw
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> oh yes, morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-12
<olly_> hmm, hail
<olly_> and sunshine
<olly_> at the same time
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<hads> Morning. What a morning it was.
<ibeardslee> all back now I see
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-13
<mwhudson> today appears to be oscillating quite impressively between winter and spring
#ubuntu-nz 2015-11-15
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> i tried to upgrade to wily on friday and ended up reinstalling :/
<mwhudson> thank heavens for backups and usb3
<ibeardslee> bit soon for wily isn't it?
<ibeardslee> ..oh n/m wily is 15.10 .. carry on
<mwhudson> :-)
<ibeardslee> Xenial Xerus is 16.04
<ajmitch> might still be a bit early to upgrade for some
<ibeardslee> let's not get me on things like choices between things like Unity7/Xorg and Unity8/Mir .. LTS should be solid and set for one of them .. leave the other versions for that sort of playing
<ajmitch> unity 8 by 18.04 then?
<ibeardslee> heh, it might also come with perl 6
<olly_> precise had perl 6: http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/rakudo
<chilts> afternoon
#ubuntu-nz 2016-11-14
<mwhudson> oh is that why i couldn't complete my address this morning?
<olly> yeah
<olly> apparently it searches on every key press as you enter it
<olly> i think they may have stopped it searching when it's really short
<olly> the main issue is there's no feedback as to what's wrong to the user
<mwhudson> yes, i noticed that bit :)
#ubuntu-nz 2016-11-15
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-11-16
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-11-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-11-18
<atamira> afternoon
<ibeardslee> urgle
#ubuntu-nz 2017-11-14
<ibeardslee> Anyone have any idea if/when Firefox 57 is likely to end up in the Ubuntu repos?
<ajmitch_> ibeardslee: I can see it's already in the PPA from where it's copied into the archive
<ibeardslee> ok, I may need to start an email about how (if possible) to revert for some people.
#ubuntu-nz 2017-11-15
<ajmitch_> too many addons breaking?
<ibeardslee> that and our QA/test team may need to know how to test in the different version
<ajmitch_> it wouldn't surprise me if it's in the archive within a day or two, judging from the previous upload history
#ubuntu-nz 2018-11-15
<irukanji> so.... nothing in the mailing list archive since 2014... has everyone turned into moss or we just being typical Kiwi's?
