#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-10
<snap-l> rwcitek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/QA/Autopilot
<rwcitek> snap-l: thanks.
<snap-l> np
<rwcitek> When I created by USB boot disk from the ISO, I didn't create a sufficiently large persistent file.  Here's what I did to resize it:
<rwcitek> cd /media/CD6A-1A89/
<rwcitek> fsck.ext3 casper-rw
<rwcitek> dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1000 >> casper-rw
<rwcitek> resize2fs casper-rw
<jsjgruber_> What things are people trying tonight?
<derekv> got disconnected
<derekv> need to set some sort of script up to reestablish tunnel/ relogin to bouncer
<derekv> I concluded that the way you serialize something could be different depending on the service your serializing it for.  so the knowledge of how to serialize it belongs with other knowledge about that service
<derekv> I see it as the same problem as with the Object.toString in java
<derekv> its contextual
<greg-g> yay, doing my first backup over the wifi to the eeepc+enclosure setup
<rick_h_> I guess I just don't get it https://github.com/twitter/bower
<rick_h_> and morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Not sure what bower is trying to solve
<snap-l> Apparently there's a need. :)
<brousch> snap-l: My son is having fun with this app. I thought you might like it too http://mobileaccessibility.cs.washington.edu/tapbeats/download.php
<brousch> Ut oh. Where are _stink_ and ColonelPanic001 today? http://www.freep.com/article/20120909/NEWS01/120909027/Detroit-brothel-blind-pig-10-arrested
<UnFixed> in WSU police custody.
<_stink_> i traded my one phone call for this shout out on IRC.
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> _stink_: Thank you. :)
<brousch> wow http://justinholmes.bandcamp.com/track/john-q-contrib-dot-auth
<jjesse> wow rick_h_looks like you were very busy over t heweekend
<jjesse> rick_h_ floor looks awesome
<rick_h_> jjesse: heh well they were installing it last week
<rick_h_> I just got to put my house back together this weekend
<rick_h_> still have some more to do, the stairs aren't done yet because they ran short of material
<jjesse> ah well the floors look awesome
<rick_h_> thanks, yea my dream floor. Always wanted a nice natural hickory floor
<rick_h_> for the non-G+'ers like greg-g https://plus.google.com/u/0/116120911388966791792/posts/Lq7AvgVXJBo
<jrwren> i only wish it weren't java. http://www.opendedup.org/
<greg-g> snap-l: your "bill has been paid" emails from Ting, does the subject get the dates wrong. ie: the one I just got said "Your bill for Sep 06 - Sep 06, 2012 has been paid, thanks!"
<greg-g> I submitted a support request to them, we'll see what they say
<greg-g> also, snap-l, I have yet to hear back on the Fx Nightly UserAgent issue (it telling me my Fx Nightly is "out of date")
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, your first bill may be a little wonky
<snap-l> because you're putting down a deposit for the month
<snap-l> based on projected usage
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> gotcha
<greg-g> hah, nice downtime graphic for ting: https://maint.ting.com/
<jjesse> ok figured you guys could answer best:  is there a way to view my Nexus7 screen on my laptop?  i know on my iPad through an app I can airplay my screen
<jjesse> just wondering if there is an app i can do the same w/ my nexus 7
<brousch> VNC
<jjesse> do i have to have root to install/run?
<brousch> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=vnc+server&c=apps
<brousch> Some say rooted
<jjesse> the one that is non rooted is like 8 bucks
<brousch> Yeah, and it has silly requirements
<brousch> YOU DON'T OWN YOUR DEVICE UNTIL YOU HAVE ROOT ON IT
<brousch> Sorry, had to get that out of the way
<greg-g> but but but, I might brick it!
<brousch> man-up!
<devinheitmueller> But rooting your phone would allow you to destroy the carrier's network!
 * greg-g pouts
<brousch> jjesse: do you need to view the screen, or control things on it?
<jjesse> view the screen
<brousch> There are apps for remove control without VNC-like viewing
<jjesse> need to do a demo of a product running on my nexus
<brousch> That is tough. I used a few VNC servers and they are all a little flaky
<brousch> Like some things don't show up, or are slow to show up
<brousch> Can you use the Android emulator?
<jjesse> i can airplay my ipad
<jjesse> which allows me to show the scree
<jjesse> i could go all ghetto and show hold my device up to my webcam
<jjesse> but wanted something cooler
<brousch> root it!
<brousch> This seems annoying, but maybe http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/42491/how-to-remote-view-and-control-your-android-phone/
<brousch> jjesse: does it have to be live?
<jjesse> would be cool if live, i know i could screenshot it
<brousch> I used a screencast recorder for some good videos for a talk
<brousch> I don't see any real solutions without root
<jjesse> yeah thats what i thought
<jjesse> kinda hard to show a demo of a security related product when you have a rooted phone
<jjesse> know what i mean?
<brousch> No
<brousch> Tell them it's so locked down and secure that you can't even show them a demo
<krondor> jjesse:  some security products prefer rooted android (juniper pulse and cerberus)
<jjesse> krondor, yes i know, but i'm working on a demo of a management product, seuccring/locking down mobile devices
<jjesse> and would prefer to not show a rooted device :)
<greg-g> haha
<brousch> But wouldn't that be more informative. Look! It even works with root!
<greg-g> that kind of security, not real security ;)
<krondor> I'd say use the emulator is probably your best bet then.  Is it airwatch (I loathe airwatch)
<jjesse> no its not airwatch
<krondor> no clue if it sucks but; http://sf.net/projects/ashot/
<greg-g> missing an s
<_stink_> ashost?
<greg-g> :P
<snap-l> Wow, GoDaddy mograted their DNS servers to Verisign
<snap-l> because they're suffering a DDoS
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/245260185357131776
<snap-l> Yeah, that's the other show
<snap-l> shoe, rather
<rick_h_> amz route 53, I'll get my domains all there one day
<snap-l> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f141/?cpg=gplus
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-11
<jrwren> snap-l: afaik its not a ddos attack at godaddy, its hardware failure.
<snap-l> jrwren: Whatever it is, they're not getting the message out
<snap-l> ANd if HW failure can knock their DNS servers out of whack, they need to rethink their deployment
<grizcreative> My location: Grand Rapids, United States
<derekv> "Don't reinvent the shit-wheel" is my new motto
<snap-l> good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> East siders with kids http://metrodetroitmommy.blogspot.com/2012/09/lego-kidsfest-giveaway.html
<brousch> And snap-l
<rick_h_> oooh, thanks brousch
<rick_h_> we might have to try to do that on the friday
<brousch> We might have to wander over there Saturday or Sunday
<rick_h_> ticket bought
<rick_h_> we'll go friday, hopefully it'll be slower then. We've got a bike ride thing on Sat
<brousch> Ah
<rick_h_> doh, actually the bike ride is on sunday
<rick_h_> but still, hopefully friday afternoon will be a good visit
<rick_h_> jcastro: bringing the wood shop out of retirement
<jcastro> excellent
<jcastro> I need a custom wooden bench for my new garage
<rick_h_> can almost walk through half of it now
<jcastro> I need a table refinished
<rick_h_> hah
<jcastro> and I need a teak bench for my shower
<rick_h_> well come on over nad get to work
<jcastro> heh
<rick_h_> ask makes a great work bench, cheap and sturdy stuff, easy to work
<rick_h_> ask/ash
<jcastro> you live so far
<brousch> rick_h_ I need a desk for my son's room. Make it so
<jcastro> I was just up there to see ryan's new place
<rick_h_> hah, my wife's got her hopes all up that she'll get bed side tables one day. Going to just start with small nice shelves first
<rick_h_> oh yea? what with all you people moving at once. My boss moved, ryan, widox
<snap-l> jcastro: far is a relative term
<snap-l> I used to live in Belleville, remember? :)
<widox> ugh. moving sucks
<rick_h_> widox: no doubt
<snap-l> widox: That move doesn't count. ;)
 * widox glares at the surrounding boxes
<snap-l> OK, that part sucks.
<rick_h_> I'm going to to taking the "leave it all, we need new stuff" route
<snap-l> rick_h_: There's only so far you can go with that thinking
<widox> toss out the window, light on fire
<rick_h_> snap-l: I'm thinking the father the better that line of thinking looks
<rick_h_> "what do I want to bring to portland...hmmm...laptop [check] family [check] mifi [check] done!
<snap-l> rick_h_: _you_ might have that thinking, but I'm pretty sure it's not a shared consensus. ;)
<rick_h_> bah :P
<snap-l> "Here's the 12 things made of cinderblock that Michael made in pre-school"
<jrwren> hire movies.
<jrwren> err... hire movers.
<snap-l> Then you'll never know where anything is
<snap-l> Better to use cheap labor, like friends you can pay in beer and pizza.
<jrwren> who cares, i'll find it.
<jcastro> I hired movers this time
<jcastro> worth every penny
<jcastro> It wasn't that much more expensive than packing it myself
<rick_h_> kind of cool http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/2012/09/11/ubuntu-one-music-store-now-on-the-web-and-on-your-mobile/
<rick_h_> jcastro: oh yea? that's cool. When do you guys move in officially?
<jcastro> I need to call them and find out where the truck is
<jcastro> since we had them hold our stuff for a while down there
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> Oh FFS. Gotta love the comments
<snap-l> Iâm sorry to say Iâm still not gonna use it. Nothing against you, but after checking some random bands, I found a lot of tribute bands (wanted to expand my Rolling Stones collection) but not the actual artists.
<snap-l> Until I can get them here (central-eastern Europe), I just see no point in using it.
<jcastro> 7d does miss a bunch of artists.
<snap-l> Right, but it's not all 7d's fault
<snap-l> Blame the stupid publishing licenses that need to DIAF.
<snap-l> though I'm glad they moved it to the web
<snap-l> Banshee's interface was, bluntly, sub-par.
<rick_h_> yea, web ftw
<rick_h_> especially as they get into other platforms
<snap-l> Though I still think the Music Streaming should be folded into the price of Ubuntu One
<snap-l> I understand that may not be possible, but an added $4 expense per month is distasteful.
<jcastro> I am glad it's on the web too
<jcastro> IMO I would just bundle streaming with a storage pack
<snap-l> jcastro: ++
<jcastro> "After you buy X gigs it bundles in"
<snap-l> 50GB + streaming = $40
<snap-l> or something like lthat
<snap-l> Also wish they had a way to archive purchases
<snap-l> I really don't need the fucking Baby Einstein stuff I bought for my neice clogging up my HDD.
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> when did U1 start doing referrer links?
<rick_h_> about a month ago?
<rick_h_> August 15 based on the news links
<rick_h_> so not quite a month
<snap-l> rick_h_: Shows how much I've been paying attention
<rick_h_> follow the RSS feeds my son :P
<snap-l> I already do enough navel gazing without reading Planet Ubuntu. ;)
 * scitesy is away: I'm busy
 * brousch well then I am too. so :P
<brousch> Interesting: Multi-rsync http://freecode.com/projects/mrsync
<snap-l> Hmm, it's an old project as well
<snap-l> Wonder if it's doing something "nonstandard".
<rick_h_> jcastro: wtf, xamarian pulling in everyone
<rick_h_> DBO, now segphault?
<jcastro> heh
<brousch> They all caught mono?
<snap-l> Apparently
<snap-l> perhaps they shold call it the infermary
<snap-l> Xamfirmary.
<jrwren> its called PROFIT
<jrwren> what are DBI adn segphault doing for xamarin, they aren't mono devs afaik
<brousch> jrwren: You greedy capitalist pig!
<jjesse> brousch, so i went ahead and rooted my nexus7
<brousch> jjesse++
<jjesse> just for you :P
<brousch> Not for me, for yourself
<brousch> Now it is truly yours
<jjesse> so another question, when did new app installs place a shortcut on your home screen?  kinda like apple
<jjesse> also droid VNC Server works very very well
<brousch> I haven't seen that, so I'm guessing 3, 4, or 4.1
<jjesse> well its on my htc rezound which is 4.0
<jjesse> and my nexus 7
<PainBank> rick_h_ interesting: http://wonko.com/post/yui-from-the-outside
<rick_h_52> PainBank yep
<PainBank> he alludes to forking the repo, but stops short of saying that and calls for a Yahoo Foundation... poor fellow.
<PainBank> rick_h_52 are you using SASS or LESS for your css?
<rick_h_52> sass
<PainBank> cool, thanks.
<rick_h_52> np good stuff
<PainBank> just starting to look at doin that stuff.
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> Hello from MUG
<greg-g> snap-l: how'd the presentations go?
<greg-g> or I guess, you just started
<snap-l> Yeah, it's just starting
<rick_h_droid> party
<snap-l> party party
<greg-g> weeee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-12
<brousch> jjesse is sitting across from me at Hopcat, entirely by chance
<brousch> It is freakish
<jjesse> brousch, what group were you ith?
<jjesse> and yes it was a bit freakish
<brousch> jjesse-android: Friendly Code, the Grand Rapids brigade for Code for America
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> you are correct
<rick_h_> at least twice a day
<brousch> But if you're clock is fast instead of totally broken, then it's almost never right
<brousch> Ah crap. Is it Apple Day again already?
<nullspace> getting tired of this amazon blockade for services to linux clients
<rick_h_> windows vm to the rescue
<rick_h_> only problem I've had there is that google music won't run in a windows vm
<brousch> Eh?
<brousch> Google music runs on Linux
<brousch> web browser
<jjesse> brousch, what group where you with last ngiht?
<rick_h_> brousch: the uploader
<brousch> Uploader works fine on Linux
<rick_h_> not in a windows in a vm
<brousch> jjesse: Grand Rapids Brigade of Code for America
<brousch> rick_h_: But why do you need to do it in VM if it works on Linux?
<jjesse> sounds awesome
<brousch> jjesse: It's just getting started
<jjesse> brousch,  link to explain what it does?
<brousch> http://friendlycode.org/
<brousch> Basically we are using data from the city of GR and region and doing stuff with it
<jjesse> sounds fun
<brousch> I'm working on Viget. We're converting it from Mediawiki to Localwiki, which is Django-based
<jjesse> i'll have to do some reading tonight might be something some how a non coder like me can help out w/
<brousch> With viget, once it's converted, we'll be looking for people to flesh out the data
<brousch> Edit what's there, add more info, etc
<rick_h_> brousch: so the use case was this. I wanted to get all my amazon music into google music
<rick_h_> so I setup the windows VM to use the AMZ downloader to download all my AMZ music
<rick_h_> but then when I went to upload it to google music, their uploader won't run in a windows vm
<brousch> Ah
<rick_h_> so I had to share the directory out and setup the google music uploader in linux
<rick_h_> so I was downloading in a windows VM and uploading from the linux host
<rick_h_> fun stuff :)
<Blazeix> haha, nice
<rick_h_> but hey, now all my music is in google music yay
<jjesse> quick google music question how did i get all this crap that i don't own in my google music portion?  some of these artists i've never heard of
<jjesse> are people sharing music w/ me or something?
<jjesse> ah thats it 380 songs shared w/ me, how do i turn it off?
<shakes808> Good day all
<shakes808> Visual Studio launch is going on right now. http://www.visualstudiolaunch.com
<shakes808> just if anyone is interested
<rick_h_> ummmm....no, unless there's an explosion that I'm missing?
<jrwren> i hear the python plugin to visual studio is really nice, but I'm happy with vim.
<shakes808> rick_h_: LOL That would be something to watch.
<shakes808> jrwren: Does it have intellisense?
<rick_h_> lol https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor go alex go
<jrwren> it has omnicomplete.
<jrwren> intellisense is a TM of MSFT Corporation
<brousch> Someone else mentioned the Python VS plugin today. It must be an astroturf campaign by MS
<brousch> snap-l: Did you pick up the last song on http://openmetalcast.com/2012/08/12/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-12/ from Ralph Wachsworth's Open License Music podcast, or is it coincidence?
<snap-l> It's probably coincidence
<snap-l> I don't listen to many other podcasts
<snap-l> brousch: ^^
<snap-l> Though I played "We are the vikings" from that album in a previous episode.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2012/07/09/857/
<snap-l> And if I hear something on another podcast, I'll gladly use it. I hope folks do the same.
<brousch> It's freakish. I know the open license music podcast guy, and he used the tuba song 2 weeks before you did
<snap-l> Great minds. ;)
<brousch> I think he used the vikings song too
<brousch> But after you
<snap-l> I'm going to send some Ubuntu CDs over to Mike Bader for the Software Freedom day.
<rick_h_> more power to you
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-13
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/rahulvohra/status/246082549217120256/photo/1/large
<rick_h__> morning
<brousch> yessir
<brousch> We had a big makerspace pre-meeting last night
<brousch> 2 hours of profit vs non-profit
<rick_h__> cool, going to start some woodworking? :P
<brousch> One guy has a lot of woodworking tools
<rick_h__> got my new worksharp yesterday so yay sharp tools!
<brousch> > dull tools
<brousch> Sorry, rough night
<tony-smlr> brousch: Where is the makerspace?
<brousch> tony-smlr: It'll be in Grand Rapids
<rick_h__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=player_embedded I'm too old fashioned, this just seems annoying
<brousch> Kind of cool
<rick_h__> jrwren_: would probably love it
<brousch> Looks harder to learn
<brousch> Interesting. Dreamhost is starting an S3-compatible storage service for $0.07/GB/mo - $0.044/GB/mo with outbound transfer cost of $0.07/GB
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> Did that wake you up?
<snap-l> Nah, I host with archive.org. :)
<snap-l> Listening to The Entropy League on metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> It's some of the early episodes
<rick_h__> someone talk me out of this http://www.fusechicken.com/products/une-bobine-micro-usb
<snap-l> That's dumb
<rick_h__> but but but
<PainBank> go to the plubming section at home depot....
<brousch> Looks unstable
<brousch> I bet it tips over whenever you touch the screen
<jrwren_> what would I probably love?
<rick_h__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg&feature=player_embedded
<jrwren_> ha1 watching it now.
<jrwren_> my first thought is: just learn to use your shell.
<jrwren_> I do 75% of that today, and the other 25% I don't need.
<jrwren_> not surprised he said "mouse" before "keybaord" every time. This is for mouse lovers. That I am I not.
<brousch> I don't even have a mouse! How about nub-lovers?
<krondor> snap-l:  looks like your talk on computer humor was sufficiently humorous.  Bluecoat classified mug.org as 'entertainment' today
<krondor> having been to mug on more than one occasion I think that classification is highly debateable :)
<snap-l> Well, depends on your view of entertainment
<snap-l> I apologize for that presentation. Didn't have nearly the participation I was hoping.
<snap-l> Though I found out that some folks found out about XKCD from that presentation.
<krondor> I was too tired, after I was driving home I'm thinking damn I should have said 'website is down' and such.
<brousch> lame audience
<krondor> Based on your recommendation and after careful evaluation of the Web content submitted, a Web Content Analyst has recategorized this URL as Computers/Internet and Reference.
<krondor> Three Dirty Trolls too: very canadian, and old, but good (some of their materials anyway)
<widox_> rick_h__: did the filco make an appearence last night?
<rick_h__> widox_: yea, but minux meta and caps lock keys which made it hard to actually use for a bity
<rick_h__> he pulls them since he plays starcraft with it
<widox> ah
<widox> did the keys feel much different from the leopold?
<rick_h__> a little bit maybe
<rick_h__> I think I'll keep trying to find a filco with the clears
<widox> what color keys does his have?
<rick_h__> blue
<brousch> keyboard
<brousch> fetish
<shakes808> Good morning peeps
<Blazeix> o/
<rick_h__> party on
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h__> snap-l is having a ground hog day
<brousch> He's been listening to vinyl again. His brainrecord is skipping
<paultag> heyya snap-l
<paultag> (at least I think it was snap-l)
<paultag> Ohio ended up getting a booth
<paultag> if y'all want to help out, Cheri is the one to talk to in #ubuntu-us-oh
<paultag> just re-pinging with an update (for OLF)
<paultag> o/
<PainBank> how do I add subdirectories when using git add?
<PainBank> including any files and/or subdirectories under them.
<paultag> PainBank: git add subdir/name
<PainBank> so I have to do that for every subdirectory?
<paultag> (where subdir/name is a folder)
<paultag> no
<PainBank> so say I have /subfolder/subfolder2/subfolder3
<PainBank> will the 3rd folder get added and conents in it get added with what you said above?
<PainBank> so just 'get add sbufolder' will add them?
<paultag> sure
<paultag> you can even 'git add .'
<paultag> and add everything that's untracked and not .gitignored
<PainBank> I see it did.
<PainBank> hmm...
<paultag> swag
<PainBank> so what is the command for a new repo to add all?
<PainBank> git add *
<PainBank> or something else?
<paultag> well, star can cause issue if you have ignored files that bash will expand out
<paultag> I use `git add .', personally
<paultag> s/issue/issues/g
<paultag> (for most of my projects, `git add *` might expand to `git add foo.py foo.pyc blerg blah` (because of $SHELL), which will cause an error, since pyc is on gitignore
<paultag> )
<PainBank> well, I am functional now at least from being able to use git as a local repo and store it to a folder.
<PainBank> thanks.
<paultag> np
<PainBank> thnx
<paultag> if you're using it locally, consider placing a folder "foo.git" in somewhere like /srv or /var/vcs, and `git init --bare`, then `git remote add origin file:///var/vcs/foo.git`, and `git push -u origin master`
<paultag> it'll store it super compact like, and if you ever need to copy it, it's easy as pie
<paultag> (and backups are a snap)
<brousch> I tend to use one of the free unlimited private repos from bitbucket
<snap-l> paultag: orly?
<jrwren_> and you can git clone ssh:// to/from that .git folder just as easily.
<paultag> snap-l: y'rly!
<krondor> \
<krondor> mm
<brousch> Eat it, Unitards and Gnomes! http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/09/13/166203/ubuntu-nvidia-graphics-driver-windows-competitive-but-only-with-kde
<brousch> Wait, not the Gnomes
<snap-l> Interesting.
<derekv> hell
<derekv> myself or someone created a feature branch from the wrong parent
<derekv> dont' ever do that
<derekv> I think it be fixed with a combination of rebase and branch but i didn't get it right the first couple tries and pair got impatient
<rick_h__> derekv: just cherry pick the commits off to another branch that's got the right parent
<rick_h__> and then just blow away the bad feature branch
<derekv> rick_h__: i tried that
<derekv> i'll explain later
<rick_h__> derekv: ok
<derekv> cherrypick would probably have also worked
<derekv> though
<derekv> i just learned i don't know what git pull rebase does
<derekv> not the same as regular rebase in some way
<jcastro_> rick_h__ https://tech.dropbox.com/?p=361
<paultag> jcastro_: you moved back?
<jcastro_> yeah
<rick_h__> jcastro_: yea, github has a rule that all JS is in coffeescript
<paultag> all new js, rick_h__, they have some old stuff that they won't migrate
<paultag> coffeescript is interesting. Most hardcore js types I know really don't like it.
<rick_h__> paultag: yea, I mean if it's working and is tested why bother
<rick_h__> but a lot of places are starting to do it and a lot of node folks are doing it
<paultag> eek, all the node folks I know hate it
<paultag> (source: https://github.com/styleguide/javascript)
<rick_h__> paultag: I don't know. It seems I've seen a lot of npm modules in coffeescript these days.
<paultag> mm, it was trendy for a while
<rick_h__> but that's just what I've seen so I guess I'm sure the counts are higher
<rick_h__> higher for raw js that is
<paultag> I cowork at a node.js / javascript shop
<paultag> one of my buddies here is on the ECMAScript committee, he really hates coffeescript
<paultag> I don't know anyone here that uses coffeescript
<rick_h__> yea, I've not done a project in it but going to try to do the firefox bookie plugin in it to test it out for real
<rick_h__> but I've tried to keep up/read/tinker with it
<paultag> totes
<paultag> let me know what you think
<paultag> I've been trying to keep hip with my stuff, and it'd be a shame if I was missing out on something because people like JS too much
<rick_h__> I like JS the way it is. Honestly I'm unhappy with the new => crap
<paultag> fat arrow?
<rick_h__> so who knows, falls into personal preference I guess
<rick_h__> yea
<paultag> crap, that was something I was pushing with rick
<paultag> he went back to the committee saying people loved it
<paultag> sorry :)
<paultag> I dig the fat arrow myself
<rick_h__> I'll send the hate mail
<paultag> https://gist.github.com/2654256
<rick_h__> I don't like getting too much magic symbol stuff
<paultag> that's what he showed me
<paultag> oh man, other people commented. phew.
<rick_h__> yea, see that fat arrow with class just drives me nuts. wtf is that?
<rick_h__>   constructor( opts ) {
<rick_h__> python: def __init__
<rick_h__> function consturctor, php has a function
<rick_h__> just constructor() out there annoys me
<paultag> well
<paultag> before you'd do classes by declaring a function or an object and setting the prototype methods
<paultag> I hated doing that
<rick_h__> right, but when I start to read that line, I have to stop and read hte whole line to see "is this a method call?, a variable, oh it a method definition
<rick_h__> I hate that you have to process a whole line of text to figure out wtf you're looking at
<paultag> mmm.
<rick_h__> <3 python line of def ...
<rick_h__> I know before I even look at the name wtf that is
<paultag> Python is fantastic with most things.
<jrwren_> what does fat arrow do?
<rick_h__> in current JS worst case it's an object literal and I have to look for method:
<rick_h__> so I can tell right after the name
<paultag> jcastro_: so rather then foo(function() { â¦ }.bind(this));
<paultag> erm
<paultag> jrwren_: *
<rick_h__> in this case I have to go through all the args/params to the metohd, which could line wrap, to figure out it's not a method call
<jrwren_> don't do classes in js. period. dont' add it, we don't want it :)
<paultag> jrwren_: you can do foo => { â¦ };
<paultag> everything is an object :)
<rick_h__> yea
<rick_h__> kind of hard not to
<rick_h__> right so setInterval(() => {
<paultag> the .bind(this); always pisses me off
<rick_h__> so this is what, creating a method setInterval, wtf is ()
<jrwren_> oh, i actually love that fat arrow.
<paultag> it's never clear and new coders can be all confused by it
<rick_h__> that=this has been working just peachy for a ton of years
<paultag> jrwren_!!
<jrwren_> i hate typing function in js and I hate typing lambda in python.
<rick_h__> heh, I was itching for a python lambda in JS today
<paultag> python lambdas rule
<jrwren_> function in js is lambda in python.
<jrwren_> yes, python lambdas rule, but I hate the syntax. I'd much rather type x=>x+1 than lambda x:x+1
<rick_h__> yea, but lambda in python is a lot cleaner/nicer, especially with comprehensions
<paultag> If anyone wants to get some JS written, I'm looking for javascript minions
<rick_h__> so I guess I was looking for a combo of lambda and a list comprehension in JS today
<paultag> (node.js)
<jrwren_> and only 1 line? wtf python, its like you aren't a real language :)
<brousch> lambdas are too magical for me
<rick_h__> [obj.name for obj in list_of_objs where obj.is_private is True] kind of thing
<rick_h__> so was trying to see if I could do some sort of lambda in JS without looping/etc
<rick_h__> paultag: you guys doing straight node.js?
<rick_h__> for a full web front end? or back end daemons?
<paultag> rick_h__: it's a side f/oss project I have
<rick_h__> ah, gotcha
<Blazeix> rick_h__: <3 underscore.js
<paultag> rick_h__: and I killed the webserver bits for now, I'm writing a mail client to sync with my gmail
<rick_h__> Blazeix: yea, I was thinking about that. We don't have underscore in our codebase currently
<paultag> rick_h__: right now it gets "push" mail just as fast as my phone (thank christ), and I'm adding in notmuch support on the fly
<paultag> then I'm writing a fancy web4.0 front-end when I'm done
<jrwren_> brousch: there is nothing magical about lambdas at all
<brousch> Too much crammed into one line
<jrwren_> rick_h__: you could totally do that sort of lambda in js with reactive extensions
<paultag> rick_h__: this was the test interface I had a long long time ago - http://i.imgur.com/Xbbs9.png
<paultag> rick_h__: I've since purged all the fancy crap
<rick_h__> paultag: gotcha
<rick_h__> I just live with offlineimap + imapfilter + dovecot to combine/re-serve my email out
<paultag> totally
<paultag> offlineimap didn'
<paultag> didn't cut it for me when I was playing with it
<paultag> plus I want to have something really clear, super good looking and deisgned to be mouse-less
<rick_h__> mutt :P
<paultag> and I want it to manage all 20,000 of my email addrs
<rick_h__> what I use locally to pull from dovecot
<paultag> rick_h__: yeah, that's what I use now
<rick_h__> but yea, understand
<paultag> but it's unfit for large folders
<paultag> and I've sadly got those
<paultag> and it's not easy to switch email accounts, etc
<paultag> plus, unencrypted passwords by default (I found a way around that)
<rick_h__> ah, I setup shortcuts for my common folders and folder-hooks to set the right email accounts to send from/etc
<paultag> rick_h__: yeah, but I want all the email to sync from all the folders on the fly, and push
<paultag> and I want it to look ultra clean and hip
<paultag> I need minions :)
<jrwren_> or this: https://linqjs.codeplex.com/
<paultag> so, who's going to OLF?
 * waldo323_ is
<paultag> awesome :)
<paultag> well, there'll be a debian bug squashing party somewhere one of the days
<derekv> whats the quickest way to strait clone an ubuntu machine
<derekv> both are on same network
<derekv> can I set up partitions, use rsync then restore grub
<derekv> will rsync get everthing
<greg-g> derekv: if you do it carefully, but I'm sure there are tools I can't think of their names that do it
<snap-l> If you have access to Ghost, that might work
<jrwren_> rsync should work, just be careful around /dev
<jrwren_> these days you can probably ignore /dev
<snap-l> http://proselytism.bandcamp.com/album/god-died-on-his-knees I think  this is a mistake
<snap-l> hm, seems if it's a mistake, it's consistent
<rick_h__> woot! breadability pull request with a nice little change
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-14
<jrwren_> anyone know a good program that will tell me torrent info for a given torrent file. namedly the annoucne urls?
<jrwren_> I tried using python-bittorrent to write somehtin, but DAMN if that isn't a shitty api, I've never seen one.
<snap-l> I seriously want to find the folks who feel this is music, and stick their head in a dryer: http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/track/vicious-perversion-and-disregard
<snap-l> http://glossolaliarecords.bandcamp.com/album/clan-dos-mortos-cicatriz-alkmorhilyion < It's like they based their entire careeer off of the last track of Skinny Puppy's Last Rites
<paultag> snap-l: what the christ is this
<snap-l> shit that shows up in my searches for CC metal
<jrwren_> deluge and python-libtorrent ftw
<paultag> snap-l: the fuck
<snap-l> paultag: If you put more than 10 seconds listening to it, you're a braver man than I
<paultag> snap-l: I went about 30 seconds in and was waiting for the drop
<paultag> figured it was new wave dubstep
<snap-l> http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/knewdigate-stillwaters/
<snap-l> I'd take 50 minutes of dubstep over that
<snap-l> "Soothing, meditative, soulful piano by qualified Music Therapist
<snap-l> AKA New Agey
<paultag> I'll stick with my jams
<paultag> which all sound like acid flashbacks
<paultag> and I'm ok with that.
<snap-l> What sort of stuff?
<paultag> snap-l: right this very second, I've got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX-5YVVeULA&feature=related on
<paultag> I love this band
<paultag> just backed their last kickstarter
<snap-l> Ah, so you love the more trippy, slower stuff
<paultag> yessir
<snap-l> http://carthasy.bandcamp.com/
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rdIWKytq_q4 <- Hilarious.
<paultag> snap-l: I giggled for minutes this morning watching that
<paultag> snap-l: re: carthasy, not bad
<snap-l> Thing is, it's so spot on
<snap-l> Yeah, I like Carthasy.
<paultag> totally
<paultag> those folks must be hella bummed they said yes to that interview
<snap-l> Well, I wonder how many folks they had to go through to find that batch
<paultag> yr
<paultag> yar
<jrwren_> https://gist.github.com/3719337
<brousch> snap-l: Have you heard these from Daniel Bautista? http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a113216/recycle-bin-2
<snap-l> Nope, not yet
<snap-l> Downloading. :)
<snap-l> THank you.
<brousch> snap-l: I like Bukkake best so far
<brousch> OK, that didn't come out right
<paultag> â¦
<paultag> someone needs to put that in the /topic
<rick_h__> dude, that was a cards against humanity card that we had to explain to my wife and now you're saying you like it best of all
<brousch> There's a song in the album I linked snap-l to called "Bukkake"
<paultag> sure
<snap-l> Uh huh
<snap-l> note how quickly he qualified it.
<brousch> Ah dammit
<brousch> I like Crabs too
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> go brousch go!
<snap-l> I'm just glad he didn't say he liked DIsmembered Boys
<paultag> haha, oh lordy
<paultag> I'm saving these logs
<brousch> Well there goes my political career
<paultag> oh trust me, they've all done way way worse stuff.
<paultag> but they're absurdly rich, so none of that matters
 * brousch likes another one. Is afraid to look at the title
<brousch> Follow the Leather. That's not so bad
<snap-l> Keep digging
<nullspace> rick_h__: know of a good source for hand planes that arn't rediciolusly priced
<rick_h__> nullspace: ebay
<rick_h__> I've gotten most of mine via ebay and replaced the irons with hock iron/chipbreakers and <3 them
<rick_h__> http://www.hocktools.com/products.htm
<nullspace> thanks, hmm wonder why I never thought of ebay...
<rick_h__> yea, check out millers falls, they're an old brand that makes nice planes
<rick_h__> that's most of my collection
<rick_h__> leevalley has the best price/new plane setup if you can get there
<rick_h__> I just bought a shoulder plane from them should be here on monday
<rick_h__> nullspace: or if it's a limited thing swing by some time. I've been pulling the woodshop out of mothballs
<snap-l> http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/24001/senior-systems-administrator-stack-exchange
<snap-l> It's a windows shop, but interesting
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/view/9853/nekrogoblikon-no-one-survives-video
<jrwren> they do a great job, very well designed infrastrcturw
<jrwren> "Haproxy, Nginx, Redis, and Puppet"   <-- not your typical windows shop :)
<paultag> might as well use GNU/Linux
<snap-l> jrwren: Oh definittely
<krondor> stacexchange actually had a good argument blog post once for why they used windows where they did and linux where they did
<snap-l> krondor: Yeah, I have no qualms over them using WIndows
<snap-l> it's what they're familiar with, and I'm sure they did their homework
<snap-l> It's the ones that aren't pragmatic about it, and have blind brand loyalty that get my goat
<snap-l> and yes, I know that makes me a hypocrite. :)
<brousch> LINUX ALL THE THINGS
<snap-l> I've had the best luck with Linux
<snap-l> A more nuanced opinion: If your sole reason for going with a technology is "we've always done it that way", that's not valid
<snap-l> If your reason is "I'm most comfortable with it, and it does what I need", that's valid.
<snap-l> I find no comfort in using Windows.
<krondor> yeah which I can't findthe story I was thinking of seems to have been their gist
<krondor> http://highscalability.com/blog/2009/8/5/stack-overflow-architecture.html (ms stack familiarity is mentioned)
<snap-l> I'd be very surprised of any site that Jeff Atwood or Joel Spolsky built using anything but MS
<krondor> actually there's some newer ones I should read, I always like reading about other large environment architectures
<krondor> http://highscalability.com/blog/2011/10/24/stackexchange-architecture-updates-running-smoothly-amazon-4.html they've got some thoughts about amazon in there and multi-datacenter
<snap-l> Amazon is not cheap
<paultag> it's not expensive, either
<paultag> I'm using it for personal usage, it's ruddy great.
<snap-l> You're paying a premium to not host your own stuff
<snap-l> paultag: For low usage, it makes sense
<paultag> I don't want to hose this stuff
<paultag> host* :)
<snap-l> but my Linode instance is comparable in price
<paultag> I use it to spawn up 50 machines at a shot to do some builds and stuff
<paultag> one instance sure
<snap-l> paultag: It's awesome for that
<paultag> I have a Linode myself, because it's backed by more then ramfs
<snap-l> if you need to scale up quickly, it's perfect for that
<paultag> but for throwing loads at it, it's flawless, and not expensive
<paultag> I spent 4 bucks last month and i used it like crazy
<snap-l> "We're noticing 10% increase in traffic. Add 10% more machines"
<snap-l> That's what it solves
<snap-l> it's not good for bread-and-butter computing
<paultag> nah
<snap-l> Also, if you're running Windows, it's ridiculously expensive
<snap-l> and I think that's what Stack Exchange learned.
<jcastro> SO scales up not out
<jcastro> also iirc their cloud stuff was on azure in the old days
<paultag> jcastro: azure is 2 years old
<paultag> old days?
<snap-l> two years old is a lifetimein compters. :)
<krondor> 2 years is a long time particularly in things like aws, azure, etc...
<paultag> but hardly "old days"
<snap-l> paultag: While you ate breakfast, I started a company, had my IPO, and promptly tanked it before you could finish your orange juice.
<paultag> mmm.
<krondor> from that last link it seems SO has little redundancy actually.  Active in NY (1 DC), read only in Oregon (1 DC).  Surprised they're not more distributed.
<jcastro> well, I mean vs. the newer stuff they just launched this summer
<snap-l> krondor: They seem to have a more monolithic approach
<snap-l> like SF had.
<krondor> scares me for environmental.. water main bursts and ouch! things like that.
<jrwren> amazon is cheap. its a whole lot cheaper than doing it yourself, until it isn't.
<snap-l> jrwren: That's an awesome way of putting it. :-P
<snap-l> It's cheaper, until it isn't.
<jrwren> yup.
<snap-l> and then it isn't. ;)
<paultag> that's deep
<paultag> until it's not
<jrwren> we use it for 20 or so instances, and it is WAY cheaper than paying someone to maintain that many servers. even if we didn't hvae to buy the servers!
<snap-l> Ah, now that's different
<snap-l> if you're factoring in datacenter dudes, then yeah, it can be cheaper
<jrwren> yeah, that is what I mean.
<paultag> nothing makes you feel like you're alive then blowing a few bucks kicking up 20 large instances for poops and chuckless
<paultag> chuckles
<snap-l> Yeah, Amazon is great for back-of-the-envelope computing
<paultag> totally
<paultag> rebuilding debian on aws is killer too
<paultag> a bunch faster and easier to kick off
<paultag> and run a few at once
<paultag> we got us some credits to do that
<jrwren> was great to spin up an instance in ireland to proxy and watch olympics too
<paultag> +1
<paultag> I was getting my buddy to wire that up with netflix
<paultag> ruddy brilliant (moreso, since 'flix uses EC2 for their stuff, too)
<jcastro> jrwren, hey
<jcastro> where do you live in relation to plymouth?
<brousch> Did you Pythonistas know about pip --download-cache ?
<brousch> You can use an environment var
<brousch> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10336308/how-to-cache-downloaded-pip-packages
<jcastro> hey smoser
<jcastro> mramm and I want to drink beer
<smoser> hey
<jrwren> jcastro: 15miles south of ann arbor right off US23, so probably 30min from Plymouth
<smoser> jcastro, i dant do it tonight. i have a sitter and a date
<jcastro> (anyone else around the plymouth area?)
<jcastro> jrwren, OHRLY, what exit?
<jrwren> Carpenter Road, I think it is #27
<jcastro> I found out today that flav is on Geddes.
<jcastro> jrwren, OMG.
<jcastro> jrwren, that's where I just bought a house
<jrwren> yeah, flav is in awesome spot in AA
<jcastro> carpenter and ellsworth
<jrwren> jcastro: that is about 10 miles north of wehre I am at. but SWEET
<jcastro> oh
<jcastro> does the road turn around or something?
<jcastro> jrwren, well, if you want to have beers tonight
<jrwren> jcastro: I'll try to get wife perms. what time you thinking?
<jcastro> mramm, smoser is going on a date
<mramm> good for smooser!
<jcastro> dunno, I am flexible
<jrwren> I should have called a baby sitter for tonight.
<jcastro> I can get used to calling him "smooser".
<mramm> haha
<mramm> typo's can be fun
<jrwren> did you move in?
<jrwren> oh no... plymouth. nevermind.
<jcastro> not yet
<jcastro> I close on Wednesday
<jcastro> then whenever my stuff gets here
<rick_h_droid> who brought mramm in here? blackmail involved?
<mramm> haha
<mramm> yes
<mramm> but no-one is allowed to tell
<mramm> and it's even possible that I was the one doing the blackmail
<jcastro> I noted he was missing and it didn't seem right
<jrwren> i'm gonna tell.
<derekv> BTW SystemRescueCD is the bees knees
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-15
<derekv> that moment when you realize that it isn't a problem with network or sshd you just had the ip wrong for the last half hour
<derekv> actually its not half as bad as doing sysadming or troubleshooting over ssh and realizing you're totally shelled into the wrong machine
<derekv> iow given I had the wrong IP, at least I was failing to connect and log in
<derekv> so at least there's that
<jrwren> ouch.
<jrwren> at least it wasn't a super important production server and you'd typed shutdown -h now
<jrwren> or ifdown eth0 :)
<paultag> yo rick_h__
<paultag> rick_h__: what did you think of coffeescript?
<snap-l> wow, mramm in thehouse
<rick_h__> paultag: ugh. I need to do a full project in it still but I've got mixed feelings.
<paultag> heard that.
<rick_h__> I think it's a great helper/aid and provides structure nad good practice for people that don't know JS
<rick_h__> thinking along the lines of RoR or active record ORMs and the like
<paultag> mmmmm.
<rick_h__> but fundamentally they can be limiting, force people into a single line of trained pattern/thought, and detrimental in the long run for true people that know/understand their stuff
<rick_h__> see jquery
<derekv> How do I fix the feeling that I'm not a programmer, I just configure things.
<paultag> derekv: write in ASM and relize "real" programming sucks ass. Be happy.
<rick_h__> derekv: by building a library and getting someone else to use it
<rick_h__> I think that's been the thing that's made me feel the most useful
<paultag> rick_h__++
<rick_h__> even more than the whole Bookie web app is when someone finds my library to make XXXX work/simple is probably more meaningful as it helps their programming vs just providing a tool/service for them to use
<derekv> I think the world needs a new lisp class programming language.
<paultag> clojure is neat
<rick_h__> kind of like you're now part of someone else's programing snowball
<paultag> derekv: have you seen emacs-live?
<rick_h__> heh, isn't the problem with lisp programming languages is that there's too many?
<derekv> paultag: no where is it?
<paultag> I hate emacs, and that is the only reason i'd ever consider switching
<paultag> derekv: https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live
<paultag> derekv: http://vimeo.com/22798433[Bder	http://vimeo.com/22798433[Bhttp://vimeo.com/22798433
<paultag> Gah! irssi!
<derekv> paultag: nice
<paultag> (play-chord (chord :C3 :minor))
<paultag> freeking awesome.
<derekv> want to learn clojure and also continue learning haskell / CL
<paultag> aye
<derekv> paultag: there's been lisp music systems before
<paultag> derekv: yes, I know.
<paultag> derekv: but emacs-live + clojure is particularly awesome.
<derekv> so the thing is that I also need to get better with javascript and with databases, and specific things we use at work
<derekv> and I'm forcing myself to produce something non work related as well, which at the moment is android bookie, or else i'll just be a pit of learning
<rick_h__> derekv: yea, welcome to the 'not enough hours' syndrome
<paultag> ugh
<paultag> I've got so much work I need to kill off
<rick_h__> just takes time. I think it took me nearly 5 years before I felt adequate in the stuff I do today.
<rick_h__> and I've just about always had some tinkering side project outside of work to do the things I need to learn but don't have time to do during the day job
<derekv> as a standing request if anyone discovers a healthy, permement solution to having to dedicate time to sleeping ... or a magic "pause time so I can hack" trick
<derekv> i will pay money.
<paultag> derekv: i've got something that can do the trick
<paultag> it's called crack, not too expensive
<rick_h__> speaking of sleep, it's past my bed time. The boy will be up early all ready to go
<rick_h__> paultag: does that answer your CS question?
<rick_h__> unfortunately I've not used it extensively to be sold, but I think I *get* the attraction/idea
<paultag> CS question?
<rick_h__> coffeescript
<paultag> Ohh.
<paultag> yep.
<paultag> I just wanted to get your take after you played with it :)
<rick_h__> I'm a jquery hate too so maybe I just hate what the cool kids like :P
<paultag> :P
<derekv> man starbucks here on woodward is a great place to peoplewatch
<derekv> these highschool students walked in, one gril with a football jersey, but bloused up , black pants leather boots curled hair and oddly done makeup, jock with about 2% body fat and calves that look like they weigh more than his entire upper body, and this other girl with a jean jacket craddleing a baby doll .
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live!! http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=A1950JVeQQ8
<jcastro_> mramm, ping
<mramm> jcastro_: pong
<jrwren> did you guys get beer last night?
<snap-l> hello from Beaumont
<derekv> trying to decide what brakes to get for mtb
<derekv> always drooled over hopes.  guy at bike shop doesn't think i should due to difficulty getting parts in a timely fasion should I need parts
<derekv> reviews for hopes are the most enthusiastic you can find, people who own them tend to be in awe of them
<derekv> but everyone says the shimano's are good
<derekv> "If you are hacker and you have forgotten your password, click here."
<derekv> "to post in this forum your post count must be 5 or higher" ok wtf so I'm supposed to post in the wrong forum then?
<rick_h__> derekv: krondor was starting to get into mtn biking
<derekv> the DH rims were one of the best purchases I ever made
<derekv> those and lock-grips
<derekv> it is MINDBLOWING how big of a difference grips make
<derekv> i had no idea until I got the lockgrips, it was like I had a new bike
<rick_h__> heh, yea I've got a set of ergo grips I love
<rick_h__> with bar ends that make climbing a bit nicer
<derekv> I can take or leave the bar end things
<derekv> i had them on my first bike and would use them, but never got them on my current bike and never really missed them
<derekv> i'm leaning towards the hopes just because of the drool factor
<derekv> it may not be the most rational descision
<derekv> i remember back in the day reading reviews of hope disk brakes
<derekv> a very common comment was that the first time they hit the brakes they went flying over the front handlebars
<derekv> i think the issue isn't so much stopping power anymore as most disk brakes probably could do that now
<snap-l> Howdy
 * snap-l wonders if he can even ride with you folks. JoDee and I have comfort bikes, with the wide tires
<derekv> yes
<derekv> but
<derekv> you might not like to ride everywhere i'd ride
<derekv> what you can do is take your bike out on a trail
<derekv> find the easier trails
<derekv> some parks label them like ski hills
<derekv> ride it and get off your bike and walk it anywhere you're not sure about
<derekv> this is how everyone starts mountain biking
<derekv> you decide you like riding on a trail more than on sidewalks and you start thinking about getting a different bike.
<derekv> thats how it goes.
<derekv> but yea i have two bikes now, the single speed with road-only tires and the mountain bike with big, big knarly tires
<derekv> the later is needing some fixing up
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-09-16
<rick_h__> amazon > *
<snap-l> Apparently I have a discount code for 1DevDay Detroit
<snap-l> DECAFBAD
<snap-l> 20% off event registration
<rick_h__> yea, got an email for lococast
<rick_h__> LOCOCAST
<rick_h__> so the whole Lorax movie thing did it's job. Saw the movie, went on AMZ and ordered a dozen books
<rick_h__> I'm such a sucker
<rick_h__> so widox Blazeix nullspace derekv go sign up and hit up the discount codes ^
<snap-l> And anyone else who wants to come to Detroit for a developer conference
<snap-l> we bitch that we have to head to Ohio for everything, so no excuses. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: A dozen books about what?
<rick_h_droid> Dr seuss
<brousch> There's one big one that has everything
<brousch> All the stories, letters from Seuss, background info, etc
<brousch> http://www.amazon.com/Your-Favorite-Seuss-Bakers-Dozen/dp/0375810617
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_droid> crap where were you last night brousch. that's awesome
<brousch> sleeping
<rick_h_droid> though our curious George collection taught me I do like separate books
<brousch> Next time do a little research
<rick_h_droid> makes it easier for him to hold
<brousch> Yeah, George can barely lift the book
<rick_h_droid> brousch :-p
<greg-g> brousch: cool, John Lithgow and Pete Seeger write intro essays!
<greg-g> and the creators of Berenstein Bears! (those were my favorite books)
<jrwren> the erensteins eh?
<jrwren> the Berensteins eh?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-09
<rick_h> ok, so this has me wanting to do a lococast now. https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/ec79bc2177983f
<rick_h> and morning and all that
<cmaloney> goodmorning
<brousch> wet morning
<cmaloney> that good eh?
<brousch> Woke up at 5:30 to big thunder and realized I'd left one of my van seats in the driveway. Been a deluge since then
<cmaloney> brousch: THat was tempting fate, now wasn't it? :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: I definitely have opinions on that link. :)
<brousch> What link?
<rick_h> https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/ec79bc2177983f
<brousch> Ah, yes
<jjesse> wow nice thunderstorms this morning in West Michigan
<jjesse> told my wife it had stopped raining enough for her run, she left and it started pouring
<jjesse> oops
<rick_h> ooh, that's going to be trouble
<jjesse> yeah
<brousch> hehe
<jrwren> rick_h: what are your thoughts on Alex's post?
<rick_h> jrwren: my first instinct was bullsh$$@t
<rick_h> jrwren: but I read it a couple of times and it really does distinguish 'scratching your own itch' vs 'I want a giant community'
<jrwren> yes.
<rick_h> jrwren: so now I'm thinking more
<rick_h> I'm really kind of anti "use what the cool kids use" for the sake of popularity. It pains me that podcasts still push 'find us on itunes' so much, like us on facebook, etc
<rick_h> and it's sad that programming, something that has kind of been against that kind of 'popularity wins' stuff, falls to it now
<rick_h> but there's truth in there so ugh
<rick_h> I'd love to do an interview with Mike Bayer and see how his projects have done as he's moved code over to github from bitbucket
<jjesse> so wife is back from run and isn't pissed she laughed about it
<jjesse> yay me
<rick_h> jjesse: you lucky dog :P
<jjesse> yeah dodged a bullet
<brousch> You will go to bed tonight on a pile of ice cubes.
<jjesse> lol probablly
<jrwren> its not JUST popularity. Things are popular for a reason.
<jrwren> people value those things for a reason.
<rick_h> jrwren: true, but django is popular. If I want serious contributers should I rewrite bookie in django?
<jrwren> you value something else more for some other reason.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, agree there's more to it. It was thought provoking
<rick_h> at first is seemed inflamatory, then thought provoking
<jrwren> yes, if you want serious django contributors. You aren't using django. I think you don't want that kind of contributor.
<jrwren> If nothing else, we can take away what we already know. Every decision on a project is going to effect others value of the project.
<rick_h> yea
<jrwren> e.g. I see AGPL and I immediately close the browser tab. I don't care if it is the greatest software ever.
<jrwren> e.g. I see JVM and I read a bit and then close the browser tab. I don't care if it is the greatest software ever.
<rick_h> I've not gotten that, what's up with that?
<rick_h> the agpl thing, you mean purely as a library license?
<jrwren> its too much friction for me.
<jrwren> its a matter of what I value.
<jrwren> I've come to value not having to care aobut using open source and just using it.
<jrwren> I've come to value not dealing with my companies legal dept, no matter what company I'm at.
<brousch> rick_h: You would get more contributers if Bookie were in Django, but that doesn't mean you should use Django, unless your goals are to have a lot of contributions from Django devs.
<rick_h> brousch: yea, understand. Was just the most close-to-home example I had of this kind of 'things that are popular are popular for a reason"
<cmaloney> UNfortunately people are reading it as "you should use what other people use" as though he were prescribing no innovation
<cmaloney> which is completely off-base
<jrwren> just because it is popular doesn't mean it is the best and it definitely does not mean it is right in all cases
<rick_h> yea, like I said, it come across on initial read pretty poorly. At least did for me and I'm sure others
<jrwren> and it especially does not mean it is right for your project, or my project.
<jrwren> e.g. MySQL and JVM are not things in which I am interested.
<rick_h> the title alone does it, I think it should have been more 'doesn't have to mean your playground'
<cmaloney> He needed to frame the playground metaphor better
<cmaloney> It's not a playground, it's a house with a porch
<cmaloney> if your porch requires keys and secret handshakes to get your attention then people will move on
<cmaloney> but if you want people to come up on your porch, and knock on the door, a big "welcome" sign never hurt anyone
<cmaloney> And coming from github's competitor, github is the open door to the party by comparison
<cmaloney> It's way too easy to contribute via github
<jrwren> where too easy is a good thing
<cmaloney> Exactly
<cmaloney> There's someone on the front porch handing out Solo cups
<rick_h> where I get cranky is when popularity means people develop for just that thing
<jrwren> to the point that now projects errect artificial walls and say "we don't accept pull requests, go jump through these hoops instead"
<rick_h> I'm said travisci is github tied
<jrwren> I'm looking at you openstack.
<rick_h> they could have worked on anything
<rick_h> jrwren: though they process a lot of pull requests/etc in openstack
<rick_h> they've got some things right
<jrwren> *grumble*
<cmaloney> But that's the thing: github is pretty much where people look for stuff now
<rick_h> cmaloney: and that makes me nervous
<jrwren> I think a lot of the github/travis stuff is because they are mixed model. they charge for that stuff and make good revenue doing so.
<cmaloney> if you don't see someone's project on github, you'll grumble too
<jrwren> its only no-charge for open source
<jrwren> i think google and hackernews are still where people look.
<rick_h> jrwren: can you pay travis to run non-github sources?
<jrwren> word of mouth
<jrwren> rick_h: I don't think so. That is a business decision by travis.
<brousch> I still put some things on SF
<cmaloney> Considering Alex Gaynor went off on having to use Sourceforge, I also find his comments a little amusing
<jrwren> ugh, SF
<cmaloney> jrwren: Exactly
<rick_h> I mean, I say this stuff but all of my own things are git on github and such. I still have my reservations about it.
<cmaloney> github has low friction to contribution
<brousch> But truth be told, I put things on SF because I see a lead SF dev every week.
<jrwren> brousch: friends and aquaintances are powerful like that.
<rick_h> you talk with a LP guy every day :P (please don't put your stuff there)
<jrwren> you still work on LP?
<jrwren> LP is so close to awesome. I wonder how much work it would take to get it awesome.
<rick_h> jrwren: no, there's just a couple guys on it these days
<rick_h> I was just poking at brousch
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, but I think Brondsema knows where brousch lives
<cmaloney> That said, rick_h has a tendency to want to blow up places. :)
 * brousch shivers at the thought of using launchpad
<jrwren> pythonistas, a=object();a.name='bob';  fails because object has no attribute and is "special".
<jrwren> class MyObject(object):pass
<jrwren> a=MyObject();a.name='bob' works fine.
<jrwren> ignoring for a moment that this bothers me, do you use a built in type (not dict) as a bag of attributes?
<jrwren> i want a mutable bag of attributes.
<jrwren> mutable namedtuple if you will :)
<brousch> I would dict it
<jrwren> recordtype I guess.
<brousch> I think there was a blog post last week on that topic
<jrwren> ha!  http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576555/
<jrwren> maybe I'll just name my class.
<brousch> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/2013/08/python-dicts-vs-classes.html
<jrwren> exactly
<brousch> cmaloney even commented
<rick_h_> cmaloney: need to hand this over to john http://michael.otacoo.com/postgresql-2/postgres-9-4-feature-highlight-refresh-concurrently-a-materialized-view/
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Already mentioned materialized views
<rick_h_> yea, we had talked about them before, but pgsql 9.3 out today with them woot
<cmaloney> Trying ever so slowly to remove the intertia of MySQL. :)
<cmaloney> That's awesome.
<jrwren> openstack uses mysql... :(
<greg-g> mariadb at least, right?
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> not in devstack :(
<jrwren> i dunno, is apt-get install mysql somehow magically maria?
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> it's mysql
<rick_h_> jrwren: I think there's plans for it to be
<rick_h_> wow, the stink made it to ars http://r.bmark.us/u/c76b600bd11f31
<rick_h_> chat-inducing topic #2 of the day
<greg-g> wait, what was the first? (I didn't read scrollback)
<brousch> _stink_ is on ars?
<cmaloney> Not _stink_, the Mir patch removal kerfluffle this weekend by Intel
<_stink_> another hazard of my nick.
<cmaloney> oh snap
<cmaloney> (was one of the reasons I stopped highlighting "snap")
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> greg-g: http://r.bmark.us/u/ec79bc2177983f was the first one
<greg-g> aha
<greg-g> oh hey rick_h_, do you want to do a quick interview about Bookie?
<rick_h_> greg-g: sure, for something?
<greg-g> rick_h_: the FSF :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: oh, sure I guess.
<greg-g> I know John Sullivan, I linked to your r.bmark for the Intel/Mir thing, and mentioned it was a buddy's project, he's doing interviews a la: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/interview-with-bernd-kreuss-of-torchat
 * rick_h_ goes to look
<jrwren> the more I learn, the more I think openstack is a ghetto
<jrwren> :)
<greg-g> :(
<brousch> open sores ghetto?
<cmaloney> Open Source is a ghetto
<cmaloney> There, I said it. :)
<greg-g> because all those SV startups aren't
<greg-g> or should I more positively say: at least we have SV startups to look good in comparison to (minus the flashy graphics and sports cars)
<cmaloney> I know nothing of the startup scene
<cmaloney> other than it seems to attract a self-selecting crowd of folks who think they can change the world with the equivalent of an internet-enabled kleenex box
<cmaloney> And that nobody else has done internet-enabled kleenex boxes better
<greg-g> solutionism
<greg-g> tech solutionism at its best
<cmaloney> solopsisticism
<cmaloney> solopsistic solutioneering is what I'm going to put on my business cards. :)
<greg-g> https://identi.ca/greg/note/WsUIhhldQxqH_kgKtboQGw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-10
<rick_h_> kind of cool, greg-g has a popular bookmark https://twitter.com/search?q=bmark.us&src=typd
<rick_h_> and the promise of bookie/readable content pays off. The page is gone/404, but the readable content is still there. Yay!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: widox was there any news about CHC location last week? e.g. are they going to be closed this week?
<cmaloney> I didn't ask unfortunately
<cmaloney> That said, they didn't offer either
<greg-g> rick_h_: nice
<jrwren> morn
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> ug
<widox> rick_h_: I didn't make it out last week
<widox> rick_h_ cmaloney are they starting to change over brands?
<rick_h_> widox: k, just checking.
<rick_h_> widox: so one of the stores was supposed to be changing around the 1st I think it was?
<rick_h_> our store was going to swap later, but they're going to get trained on the first one to switch/etc
<widox> ah
<widox> ok, I thought they said October'ish in the past
<rick_h_> yea, I assume we're safe but curious if you guys heard anything
<rick_h_> sounds like nope
<widox> or, we'll just be in the parking lot on your mifi ;)
<rick_h_> lol;
<brousch> rick_h_: Give mcdonc some work http://plope.com/is_open_source_consulting_dead
<rick_h_> brousch: hah! Didn't you hear, we don't do python any more :P
<rick_h_> I did hit him up to talk about it via podcast. I think with that and armin's post we'd have a good episode
<brousch> So Python is dead?!
<brousch> Damnit. What are people using now?
<brousch> And which Armin post are you talking about?
<rick_h_> brousch: the one from yesterday
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, Go is taking over :P it is getting some traction
<rick_h_> mongodb is doign their new tooling all in mongodb
<rick_h_> doing that is ugh
<jrwren> the problem is how he thinks. "open source consulting" <-- its a mindset problem
<brousch> I remember an Alex Gaynor post (not your playground), but not an Armin post
<rick_h_> brousch: ah sorry you're right. That post
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it is.
<jrwren> tooling in go you mean?
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, having too many conversations at once this morning. ugh
<jrwren> whenever someone laments like this, I go to the obvious answer: you have your carts hitched to the wrong horse. :)
<jrwren> i just finished my cup of coffee, so I'm ready for today. :)
<brousch> The Kivy lead dev has a similar problem (in France)
<brousch> Though we determined part of his problem is that his rates were too low for the value he can provide
<jrwren> i need more openstack friends. Learning this myself with no support is a pain.
<brousch> No IRC channel?
<jrwren> its useless
<jrwren> *sigh* and I search bugs and find my own :(
<rick_h_> jrwren: what are you up to these days?
<rick_h_> that's using/hammering against openstack?
<jrwren> writing a cloud orchestration tool :p
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> not really, but a mgmt tool.
<jrwren> an existing mgmtool from before ec2 had a mgmt console
<rick_h_> ugh
<jrwren> extending with openstack support, and finding openstack pretty terrible.
<jrwren> actually... i wonder if juju isn't designed the way it is becuase openstack sucks in the places i'm poking it.
<rick_h_> well, the thing to remember is that juju is meant to work around OS, AWS, Azure, etc
<rick_h_> so it's working around a lot of sucky places
<jrwren> so yes! :)
<jrwren> hrm...
<jcastro> my management tool do you mean soemthing like the AWS console?
<jrwren> jcastro: nothing so fancy, no.
<jrwren> just something to start/stop/managedns and userdata in our environment.
<rick_h_> jrwren: you guys run your own OS?
<rick_h_> openstack I guess...OS doesn't shorten well for that does it
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> yes, we have a grizzly deploy
<jrwren> basically, we want 1 tool for hybrid cloud mgmt, so tool manages services and where they run and when I start/stop it happens in correct place.
<jrwren> it all works pretty well, except for the occasional openstack wtf.
<jrwren> for example, openstack takes userdata as part of query string instead of post data AFAICT, so I think its probably limited in size a bit more than ec2s 16k limit
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Actually we went by the Downtown Royal Oak Caribou. It's papered up with a sign in the window looking for applicants
<cmaloney> No ETA on when it's supposed to open
<trevlar> cmaloney: yeah I saw that a few days ago.. but it's not going to be caribou anymore?
<trevlar> http://berkley.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/caribou-coffee-shops-in-royal-oak-to-be-converted-to-peets
<trevlar> the sign had a peet's logo on it
<jrwren> ah! I guess ultimately my issue is openstack doesn't support gzipped userdata :(
<jrwren> oh well, I can live without for now.
<cmaloney> It'll be Peets in the future
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/2319-michigan-ubuntu-global-jam-s-series/
<cmaloney> Unfortunately I can't just say "The State of Michigan" so I gave the address of the Capitol Building in Lansing
<cmaloney> so please for the love of God don't make the trip unless you have business in Lansing. :)
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> cmaloney: just instigated the quietest and geekiest protest on the state capitol
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> WEll, and it's also supposed to be the state of Michigan. When I just put the state in there it chose somewhere south of Traverse City
<cmaloney> which would have been a real fun one
<brousch> center of the state
<cmaloney> Yep
<waf> here's waf's CS interview tip #57: if asked to take an online assessment, do not respond with "i will not take your piddling on-line evaluation"
<waf> especially if you're a college student looking for an entry level position
<rick_h_> yea, I was going to say...it's ok if you're willing to walk away from the job or point at OSS completed imo
<waf> sure, sometimes we have (senior) people balking at taking a test, though rarely that rude.
<rick_h_> oh, I didn't realize that was a quote
<waf> yep
<rick_h_> that's dumb regardless
<cmaloney> I wonder if they thought it was one of those logic problem tests
<cmaloney> like "why are manhole covers round"
<waf> nah, we gave a description of it.  it covers cs fundamentals
<cmaloney> That's the only kind of test I'd walk away from unless my job was to write those sorts of lateral thinking problems.
<waf> right
<cmaloney> I remmeber commenting to someone asking me to write one of those programming problems "is there much call for this stuff here"?
<waf> it's less concerning that he put up some resistance, it's more about being needlessly rude to our HR person.
<cmaloney> Needless to say I didn't get that job.
<cmaloney> Yeah, no. That's definitely rude.
<cmaloney> Trying to understand more than absolve
<jrwren> i love screeners.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: thurs night podcast?
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Can't this week
<rick_h_> cmaloney: k
<cmaloney> rick_h_: But yeah, seems this is the week to resurrect the podcast. :)
<cmaloney> or month
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, chris McD is up for a chat on his blog post and alex's
<cmaloney> Oh, that's awesome.
<cmaloney> It'd be fitting, since I think he was our last interview
<rick_h_> yea
<mathomastech> Exciting news. I finally have a computer set up to idle in IRC all day! Ok, maybe not all that exciting.
<cmaloney> mathomastech: That's awesome that they have computers out there. :)
<rick_h_> lol
<mathomastech> cmaloney: Yea, I was surprised as well.
<mathomastech> So, I connected to the ubuntu-us-mn (Minnesota) channel and am sad to see a near ghost town there. Only a half dozen people connected, and no one actually talking.
<greg-g> hmm, I wonder who I know in there
<greg-g> h00k is familiar, but I forget who they are. Tony Y is good people
<cmaloney> Yeah, I feel blessed that we actually have a core group of folks that will talk online
<mathomastech> greg-g Tonyy seems to be the Minnesota Coordinator. Ive seen his name several places on the Minnesota LoCo pages.
<greg-g> yeah
<brousch> What's that easy chroot thing people are gushing about?
<cmaloney> lxc?
<jrwren> chroot is the easy chroot.
<jrwren> lxc is the really nice container thingy
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, but we've sold it as a super-chroot
<cmaloney> even though it's more a container
<rick_h_> lxc...it even has container in the name
<mathomastech> I am finally starting to see the issues everyone else has had with Google Maps. It is extremely slow to load and redraw. Just started seeing it the past few weeks. It was quite snappy when I first got access to it. Anyone else having problems?
<widox> its always been slow for me
<flipsidecreation> hello
<flipsidecreation> the new google maps is quite cpu intensive
<cmaloney> Yeah, I haven't been able to get it to start up, afaict
<cmaloney> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/09/canonical-launch-ubuntu-voice-initiative
<greg-g> man, git filter-branch on my eeepc 'server' is really slow
<cmaloney> greg-g: It's definitely disk I/O intensive
<greg-g> yah, doesn't help that it is also over usb ;)
<cmaloney> greg-g: I think the only way you could make it suck is if it was over Wifi to a card punch reader.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> s/suck/suck more/
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> my stupidity for accidentally having git add a bunch of podcasts instead of git-annex add them :/
<greg-g> (and git-annex sync auto committed them)
<cmaloney> Are you using that as a backup strategy?
<greg-g> I wouldn't say backups, but, data management across multiple devices
<greg-g> but yeah, poor man's backups in a way (makes offsite easy)
<cmaloney> Huh. I'm having a bit of mind-wrap to see how this works.
<greg-g> I love it for my documents, music, videos, photos, etc kind of media
<greg-g> but I still do real backups of everything else (using obnam)
<cmaloney> I wish obnam worked for me
<cmaloney> It never seemed to finish
<greg-g> what part doesn't?
<greg-g> oh, sad
<cmaloney> Yeah, had to revert to rdiff-backup
<greg-g> which isn't bad
<cmaloney> Yeah, it just seemed like something I might enjoy using
<cmaloney> but it didn't seem to work well with virtualbox images
<greg-g> def, I love Lar's design aesthetics
<cmaloney> I might retry it again at some point
<cmaloney> Oh, an di think a bug that I had was also causing problems, and the PPA wasn't up to date
<cmaloney> it looks like it's been updated since then
<cmaloney> I wish I had better notes
<greg-g> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-11
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yessir
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> goodmornin!
<waf> jrwren: do you know much about the srt/ao deal? does ao have an a2 office now?
<rick_h_> AO?
<waf> atomic object
<waf> www.srtsolutions.com
<waf> proper link: http://www.srtsolutions.com/
<rick_h_> wow, guess with diana going to netflix wonder if it was time to sell. I didn't realize AO was that big
<jrwren> waf: i know nothing, but yes, teh srt AA office is now an AO office AFAIK
<jrwren> rick_h_: SRT has really been struggling. they are down to 4 people.
<rick_h_> jrwren: oh, no way. Wow
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, 9 months ago they returned from codemash to find out they couldn't make payroll, hadn't had profit in nearly a year.
<jrwren> so most poeple found ohter jobs.
<jrwren> only 4 remain today.
<jcastro> http://ubuntu-discourse.org/category/ubuntu-michigan
<jcastro> cmaloney: ^^^^
<jrwren> they still owe wages to some people who didn't get paid long ago.
<jcastro> I even  made it maize and blue, to take one for the team
<jrwren> its a bummer for sure.
<jrwren> I think AO is basically buying those 4 devs, cuz they are good devs ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: wow, I had no idea. Last I was down there they had expanded again, took over nearly the whole floor.
<rick_h_> when diane left I figured it was just a crazy thing to live in CA, work at netflix, etc.
<brousch> AO is big and growing fast. They have filled their GR office and opened a Detroit office
<rick_h_> yea, I remember getting ping'd when they opened their detroit office
<rick_h_> I guess I knew they had a couple off offices, but I usually think small with consulting type places
<brousch> Until 2 years ago it was pretty small. Easily doubled since then
<jrwren> rick_h_: that was at least 3 years ago. :)
<jrwren> Dianne leaving was really more for the huge oportunity.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I just took it as that. I never heard of the SRT issues, but guess I've not been out there if forever
<jrwren> i was super shocked and surprised when I found out.
<cmaloney> I wonder if the small consulting businesses are all taking it in the teeth now that IBM and HP are doing the same gig
<cmaloney> much like ISPs died when cable companies became ISPs
<brousch> http://spin.atomicobject.com/2013/09/11/atomic-acquisition-srt-solutions/
<jrwren> afaik IBM and HP charge 2-4 times the rates and deliver poor quality
<cmaloney> jrwren: I know, but they're known names
<mathomastech> Anyone know how to get Empathy to connect with a Linq server? I keep reading online that both Pidgin and Empathy can connect to linq, but I can't find any instruction on how. I've already got pidgin set up. But wanted to try both and compare.
<jrwren> don't you mean LINC server?
<jrwren> linq is a C#/VB.net thing. Linc is the exchange on steroids thing.
<mathomastech> Yes, typo :)
<mathomastech> Found this bug report. Looks like there is a work around...that doesn't work
<mathomastech> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/account-plugins/+bug/1070377
<greg-g> oh, stupid online accounts stuff
<jcastro> jrwren:
<jcastro> http://concentratemedia.com/features/nerdnite0253.aspx
<rick_h_> best preview ever! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hKNDml12Big
<cmaloney> Love that editing
<jrwren> jcastro: i've been meaning to go to one.
<rick_h_> well this is a good rain, geeze
<greg-g> rain? what's that?
<rick_h_> heh, so lovely flooded road, traffic lights out, wtf I can't see anything drive down to CHC today
<rick_h_> and dammit people, when the light is out, pretend there's giant red stop signs on the intersection (morons)
<brousch> eh? It's nice over here
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> jill is stuck at work
<jcastro> it's pretty bad over here
<rick_h_> well, no need to water the grass today...booo that it's lawn mower day and so they didn't come out
<rick_h_> ok, I'm a bit disappointed in ars http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/why-the-nsa-loves-googles-chromebook/
<brousch> what a crappy article
<rick_h_> isn't it? I mean, that's the type of real FUD crap writing I expect from much different places
<greg-g> rick_h_: a little over the top, but the nuts and bolts are fairly accurate
<greg-g> forged SSL certs? yeah, 90%+ likely
<rick_h_> greg-g: right, but it goes into "woo, 4g lte you can be tracked" like any cell phone, internet enabled tablet, etc
<greg-g> right, a lot over the top :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> guess I normally hold ars to a higher standard
<greg-g> yeah, agree
<rick_h_> on another note, this seems possibly cool http://www.hellonomad.com/products/chargekey-micro-usb
<rick_h_> "Nov. 30th Ship date" :(
<cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/2013/09/11/for-love-of-the-sportball-or-athletic-boosters-need-to-take-up-a-real-cause/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-12
<rick_h_> widox:  https://github.com/mitechie/bookie-firefox
<widox> rick_h_: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danshapiro/robot-turtles-the-board-game-for-little-programmer
<rick_h_> kind of cool https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/pulse/monthly should do sprints more often :)
<cmaloney> https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/pulse/monthly
<rick_h_> woot!
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> morn
<rick_h_> ok, I kind of knew it would do some of this stuff, but still cool to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiQX-_Y0gms
<ColonelPanic001> 'morning
<ColonelPanic001> /etc/init.d/day start
<cmaloney> service "day" not found
<rick_h_> sudo service day start
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> apt-get install coffee
<cmaloney> sudo -s
<cmaloney> service day start
<cmaloney> day: starting
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> coffee: initialized
<cmaloney> day: started
<_stink_> Invoking motivation script...                                            [FAIL]
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> same here. which is wierd, I've gotten a lot done lately.
<jrwren> I think it is because I'm between tasks.
<jrwren> maybe another cup of coffee will help
<rick_h_> excuse me while I go cry in a corner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oprUI6nupfc
<rick_h_> and yes, I know editing ftw and such...still funny
<jrwren> did Kimmel lose weight or is that just a great suit?
<cmaloney> I think it's both
<cmaloney> I don't know why obnam doesn't default to compression. It seems to run like a bat out of hell with compression on
<jrwren> what is obnam?
<cmaloney> backup program fro Lars Wirzinius (sp?)
<cmaloney> does chunking, generational backup, and encryption
<cmaloney> and compression when you turn it on. :)
<rick_h_> because compression is cpu intensive?
<cmaloney> Yeah, that it is
<jrwren> it is?
<jrwren> gzip -3 isn't very intensive IME
<jrwren> bzip2 and xv sure are
 * greg-g loves obnam
<cmaloney> I want to believe. :)
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> I explicitly exclude big files from what it backs up (those are taken care of by git-annex), so that helps with speed
<rick_h_> cell phone shopping time means it's time to start watching the rumors more http://r.bmark.us/u/67c74d9309b74b
<jcastro> the MotoX looks like it feels nice
<jcastro> the guts seem midrange though
<rick_h_> yea, the X will be up against the N5 once they both get announced as Play store unlocked phones
<jcastro> except I bet the N5 will be the same price or cheaper than the N4
<jcastro> the X is overpriced for the price/perf ratio
<rick_h_> yea, that'll be the killer since I want to start buying flat out
<rick_h_> yea, there's a rumor it'll get $100 off by the time it hits the play store unlocked
<rick_h_> jcastro: heh, wife got a 2014 s60 for a loaner while they work on the subaru
<rick_h_> the push button start stuff is freaking her out
<jcastro> hah yeah
<jcastro> I love that car
<jcastro> AWD?
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> the 2k14 has the new instrument cluster, it looks badass
<jcastro> mine doesn't have that
<rick_h_> yea, it looks strange. Feels so small after getting used to the touareg
<rick_h_> will have to take it out to the store tonight :)
<jcastro> yeah find some twisties
<jcastro> the 5 or 6 cylinder?
<rick_h_> not sure
<jcastro> T5 or T6 tells you on the badge
<rick_h_> just moved in out of the way for the mowers
<jcastro> the 6 has 50 extra horses
<jcastro> I have a T5, it's where the bang for the buck on price/hp/weight is
<jcastro> oh, and mileage
<rick_h_> yea, T5 AWD, leather/push button
<jcastro> yeah that's what I have
<rick_h_> jrwren: :P
<jrwren> what?
<jrwren> oh, g+ :)
<rick_h_> the IE10 stuff
<jrwren> sorry, i been drinking
<rick_h_> all good, was funny
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-13
<rick_h_> cmaloney: http://googlecreativelab.github.io/coder/ for your pi project ideas
<rick_h_> it's interesting how google projects like coder and https://github.com/google/hesokuri are github based
<jrwren> rick_h_: kids are creative. single lego sets keep them entertained for a LONG LONG time
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm with you. I grew up that way. Big drawer full of pieces
<rick_h_> I'm not up for the whole theme'd sets these days
<jrwren> we have my wifes leftovers from when she was a kid. so some good non-themes
<rick_h_> wish I had my old legos
<rick_h_> would be awesome
<jrwren> the city series is closest to nontheme
<jrwren> you can get a nice box set of those and just throw away the 'instructions'
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WNUU6Y/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UD8P4S/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005VPRDD6/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2HLPMEQWRZIWK
<rick_h_> I think are the first order to make
<jrwren> UNFORTUNATELY my SIL got the kid lego "friends" so we have some pink shit
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> they all look GOOD
<jrwren> you get those, you'll be set for a good long while.
<rick_h_> yep
<cmaloney> Happy Programmer's Day!
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmers%27_Day
<rick_h_> wife's birthday won out
<rick_h_> which means...
<rick_h_> OMG I didn't know futures was backported and avail on pre py3.2! http://pythonhosted.org/futures/
<mathomastech> Who's all doing the Ubuntu Jam this weekend?
<brousch> I started making my Make/Fabric thing for Windows. I'm calling it "Director". The command to run (make/fab) is 'direct' and the file with the instructions will be called 'directions'
<rick_h_> very cool
<jrwren> anyone know why there is post-12.04.3 amis released on 20130909 ?
<jrwren> is there a news feed or something for these ami releases?
<cmaloney> I'll be doing some jamming this weekend
<cmaloney> but it'll be off and on
<mathomastech> cmaloney: Awesome, I am going to try and spend some time in the evenings saturday and sunday to hack away on something. I saw there was Ubuntu Touch related stuff on the list, so I will probably be looking at that.
<mathomastech> cmaloney: Is there going to be a Google Hangout or something for everyone to join in on?
<cmaloney> Um, if there isn't one started, fee free to start it
<brousch> cmaloney: You should have a hangout going all weekend from your kitchen
<mathomastech> Just have a computer hosting the hangout in the Carribou in Royal Oak. Weekend coffeehouse coders!
<mathomastech> Or Petes coffee I think their new name is.
<cmaloney> brousch: I empower you to do that. :)
<cmaloney> mathomastech: It's not a Peet's quite yet
<brousch> You empower me to host a hangout from your kitchen?
<brousch> http://pastebin.com/gdr5Bir5
<brousch> Python problem. I cannot figure out how to do that
<rick_h_> brousch: duh.getattr('h')
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> err, duh.getattr(x)
<rick_h_> brousch: sorry, getattr(duh, x)
<brousch> hm, might work
<cmaloney> OK, I abandoned obnam again
<cmaloney> seems the deduping slows down for my usage
<mathomastech> Appologies for all the connects and disconnects. Modifying my weechat.conf and irc.conf files. I am done now though...for today :)
<brousch> rick_h_: That worked. You are genius.
<rick_h_> brousch: :)
<brousch> If I had a cookie you would win it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-14
<jrwren> i'm thinking of using postgresql wal archiving to swift. on a small low-write db, am I nuts?
<rick_h_> jrwren: ceph :P
<dzho> whee, olf
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live now  At Ohio Linux Fest (Video Only) http://www.youtube.com/embed/EvtJFcs6F8o
<cmaloney> Hope you all have fun at OLF!
<cmaloney> And Good morning. :)
<chilicuil> j /ubuntu-co
<chilicuil> I'm Jamming!, just about to get out and give brochures away =D http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/es/material/brochure/ubuntu-brochure-triptico
<cmaloney> Awesome, chilicuil!
<chilicuil> cmaloney: =D
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-09-15
<jrwren> rick_h_: ceph instead of postgresql?
<rick_h_> jrwren: ceph instead of swift
<brousch1> I'm going to submit my PyOhio Kivy tutorial to pycon as a tutorial. They have 3 hour long slots, and the presenter is compensated
<brousch1> I have more material to add to it, too
<rick_h_> brousch1: coolio
<brousch1> I did  it
<jrwren> oh, we arelady have the swift up and running.
<rick_h_> jrwren: all good, was just poking as ceph > swift
<jrwren> yup
<gamerchick02> the swift? i've managed to miss a lot...
<cmaloney> I'm semi-jamming
<cmaloney> Managed to find a cold and hold on to it
<rick_h_> hah, woot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-08
<cmaloney> Hello everyone
<cmaloney> We're ready to start the September meeting.
<cmaloney> Anyone else here for the meeting?
<gamerchick02> i am
<gamerchick02> actually here. you know. for once.
<cmaloney> Awesome. :)
<gamerchick02> OT: Rayman Jungle Run takes up a lot of space.
<waldo323> Good evening
<gamerchick02> howdy waldo323
<cmaloney> Hello!
<cmaloney> Wow, we actually have quorum.
<waldo323> I think I missed the first minute of the meeting
<gamerchick02> we need three?
<cmaloney> That shouldn't surprise me.
 * waldo323 gives out apologies
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Well, it's nice to not be talking to myself for an hour. :)
<gamerchick02> hah!
<cmaloney> waldo323: no apologies necessary.
<gamerchick02> it's only bad if you answer yourself, cmaloney.
<cmaloney> I think it's only bad if you disagree with yourself.
<cmaloney> Anywho, here's the agenda:
<gamerchick02> hah!
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/764/detail/
<cmaloney> The only item that we have at the moment is the Ubuntu Global Jam
<cmaloney> Which is next weekend.
<gamerchick02> ooo i'm gonna be here all weekend
<gamerchick02> here as in at my apartment.
<gamerchick02> i can participate. :)
<gamerchick02> or at least be in IRC
<cmaloney> Awesome.
<cmaloney> I think we're going to do the online version of the Ubuntu Global Jam again
<gamerchick02> cool
<cmaloney> Unless someone would like to attempt to schedule up something for folks to get together and jam
<gamerchick02> i like the online version.
<gamerchick02> no travel and i can attend in my pjs if i want. plus i can cook and chat at the same time. :)
<waldo323> Online is good
<jsjgruber-x> virtual is fine
<gamerchick02> yay!
<waldo323> I'm going to be all over I think and the internet cloud is everywhere or near enough
<gamerchick02> it is.
<gamerchick02> should i prep an ubuntu drive? i don't currently have an install. (whoops!)
<cmaloney> ubuntu Drive?
<gamerchick02> a thumb drive or partition
<cmaloney> IS that something similar to a Windows Roundabout?
<cmaloney> HEh
<gamerchick02> lol
<cmaloney> You can if you want.
<gamerchick02> i'm a bad linux user... currently running OSX on the macbook and windows 8 on the desktop.
<jsjgruber-x> Will we be mostly looking for bugs?
<cmaloney> We can do bug tracking, or documentation, or Ask Ubuntu trolling
<gamerchick02> i'm good for any of those. i should dust off my askubuntu account
<cmaloney> OK, so we'll do something online during that weekend.
<cmaloney> I'll send out a note to the mailing list and the Google Plus community about the Global Jam.
<gamerchick02> sweet, thank you
<gamerchick02> a good reminder
<cmaloney> The only other item that I had for discussion was Ohio Linuxfest
<cmaloney> Apparently the Ohio folks aren't getting a booth this year, and the rules for the booths (afaik) require about $100 to rent one
<cmaloney> which means we're not doing a booth. :)
<gamerchick02> geez
<cmaloney> Yeah.
<cmaloney> Anyone planning on coming to OLF?
<gamerchick02> i don't think i am. that's getting close to our Christmas Bazaar and i need to work on the box of jewelry that is on my mom's end table.
<gamerchick02> putting it together, i mean
<jsjgruber-x> I can't manage going this year either--I've got two things going on in Ann Arbor
<cmaloney> Understandable.
<cmaloney> I'm planning on going, so if anyone wants to meet up down there I'll be there. :)
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's about all I have.
<cmaloney> Anything else we should cover?
<jsjgruber-x> Not that I know of.
<gamerchick02> i don't have anything.
<cmaloney> OK, thank you everyone for coming out!
<jsjgruber-x> Thanks, Craig.
<gamerchick02> you're welcome. thanks for running the meeting.
<_stink_> anyone here have a recommendation for printing business cards?  I want a pretty small number (like 100-200 maybe?)
<_stink_> whether it's some new fangled internet company or brick and mortar near royal oak doesn't matter to me.
<rick_h_> _stink_: I just used my local print
<rick_h_> probably wasn't the cheapest for fastest but nice folks and it was 400ft from my front door
<_stink_> ok cool
<_stink_> there's a place on 14 mile here i'll try if nothing better comes up
<_stink_> thanks
<cmaloney> I used Vistaprit for the Ubuntu MI cards
<cmaloney> they try to upsell you on shipping but they're local
<_stink_> like expedited shipping?
<_stink_> or like in a gold box?
<cmaloney> _stink_: Like expedited shipping
<cmaloney> Apparently work is running on generators
<cmaloney> so no AC
<brousch_> Does that make a shirt-optional day?
<wolfger> open a window. It's not hot outside. :-p
<jrwren_> its cold outside here. I'm all bundled up with my open windows.
<brousch_> jrwren_: Very good advice: protect yourself when you have Windows up.
<wolfger> ++
<jrwren_> brousch_: hahahahaha
<wolfger> cmaloney: if you're hot, just walk into the server room. That should fix that.
<brousch_> I think that was a fake laugh
<wolfger> <rocket> That was a real laugh! </rocket>
<wolfger> On a side note: why do people consider unintentional laughter "real" and intentional laughter "fake"? That doesn't quite make sense.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm wondering if I should pack up and try working from home
<wolfger> Never a bad idea.
<cmaloney> Unfortunately the remote network to my machine from home is slower than shit.
<cmaloney> not sure what's the issue.
<brousch_> Detroit http://www.freep.com/article/20140905/NEWS01/309050185/Detroit-fire-pop-can-fax
<cmaloney> -That's insane.
<brousch_> OCP is not looking so bad now
<wolfger> Nice product placement for Faygo, there.
<cmaloney> I'm sure they drink nothing but Faygo there
<cmaloney> hell, it's probably donated.
<jrwren_> I watched the first episode of Continuum last night, the 2012 tv show, not the 90s tv show. It makes OCP look friendly.
<brousch_> Any good?
<jrwren_> I'll watch episode 2.
<jrwren_> Its scifi cop action, and I'm pretty tired of those.
<jrwren_> Its got a great cast. And it doesn't lie about Vancouver, they actually claim to be there!
<brousch_> heh
<wolfger> ok, so, what is OCP?
<brousch_> What? How can you live in Detroit and not know robocop?
<brousch_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboCop_(franchise)#Omni_Consumer_Products
<wolfger> Got it. I just totally lost the context when it was first compared to the Detroit Fire Department, and then to a TV show.
<jrwren_> in the movie OCP bought the city and didn't adequately fund the police.
<cmaloney> I wonder if Detroit has thought about using dead cops as a back-up police force.
<cmaloney> Wouldn't have to pay pensions / benefits.
<jrwren_> cmaloney: for some reason my mind went to ghosts, not robots.
<cmaloney> zombies would also work
<wolfger> Why not? They use dead voters...
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-09
<wolfger> Morning.
<wolfger> Can somebody explain to me why, when I specifically tell Outlook to save changes to a meeting, it pops up a dialog asking me if I want to A) save the changes and send the update to everybody or B) don't save and keep the meeting open? In what universe would I ever click on File -> Save and then not want to save?
<wolfger> Windows is a fine gaming platform, but it sucks for getting anything useful done. :-p
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch_> Because Outlook
<brousch_> OK, how did I miss this whole segment of cheap Windows 8.1 tablets? Would they not make excellent Ubuntu tablets? http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Iconia-W4-820-2466-8-Inch-Windows/dp/B00G1YJ5BE/
<brousch_> 8", 1280x800, quad core Atom, 2GB RAM, 32-64GB Flash, Intel chipsets
<rick_h_> why are we rehashing the netbook generation?
<brousch_> Touch!
<brousch_> Also, there's Thinkpad 8 from Lenovo: 8" 1920x1200 otherwise similar
<brousch_> Oh, they are $250-$300, with the thinkpad 8 at $450
<brousch_> Weigh less than 1lb
<wolfger> Tablet! Because netbook - keyboard = better?
<brousch_> Exactly!
<wolfger> Although I must admit I use my iPad Air a lot more often than I ever used any netbook
<brousch_> 75% of my home computer usage is on my Android devices
<brousch_> It's not because they're more capable, it's the form factor
<brousch_> So not put your desktop OS in that form factor
<wolfger> An Ubuntu tablet would be pretty nifty to have...
<wolfger> Does Ubuntu have a Swype package?
<brousch_> I don't know the status of their virtual keyboards
<brousch_> LAst time I tried was ~6 years ago and it sucked
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<wolfger> still morning? Man, today is dragging. :-p
<rick_h_> heh it's crazy
<cmaloney> Yeah, because we didn't have power at work I've been catching up on things.
<cmaloney> fortunately we got power in the afternoon so I was able to take care of a few day-specific things.
<cmaloney> Otherwise this morning would have been more interesting.
<cmaloney> I really wish I had my Leopold keyboard here at work. Missing it. :)
<cmaloney> Using the Logitech wireless keyboard.
<cmaloney> K520
<cmaloney> About the only thing I like about it is it doesn't have that damn menu key near the spacebar.
<cmaloney> My keyboard technique is such that I hit it when I'm home.
<cmaloney> Causes all sorts of hell.
<wolfger> Heh. I bet.
<rick_h_> ok, time to turn off the internet
<cmaloney> Just ignore me.
<cmaloney> Apparently I fail internet.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, I didn't follow what you said but it seemed to be saying you weren't following what I said
<rick_h_> so I consider us even
<cmaloney> I was trying to reply to someone else and failing
<rick_h_> cmaloney: oh, even better then
<cmaloney> bother. Twitter's going to be nothing but iPhone comedy isn't it?
<rick_h_> OMG I laughed hard https://twitter.com/scottsimpson/status/509389897229017088
<rick_h_> <3 space balls
<wolfger> ++
<dzho> cmaloney: ITYM Apple Watch comedy
<dzho> it's a brand new flavor!
<cmaloney> dzho: Yeah, I'm sticking with the Pebble for now
<cmaloney> Lots of first generation teething
<mthx> Apple Watch, relatively unimpressed. Did like the vibration control they showed with maps though. I think I'll still with Android, plus I already got a Moto360 on the way!
<mrgoodcat> moto 360 uses same SOC as the MOTOACTV
 * mrgoodcat *headdesk*
<cmaloney> soc?
<cmaloney> System on a Chip?
<mrgoodcat> yes
<mrgoodcat> cpu basically
<mrgoodcat> but with RAM and stuff built in
<mrgoodcat> in a nutshell
<jrwren_> I was eyeing Fossil watches, but I decided I don't need a watch.
<brousch_> even one with a little apple on it?!
<mrgoodcat> apple made the same mistake lg and samsung did with the smartwatches
<mrgoodcat> they made it big and square
<mrgoodcat> at least the 360 looks good
<mrgoodcat> even if the internals are total shit
<rick_h_> it will when they release the SS version
<brousch_> Why is it not apple-shaped?!
<dzho> so, when will we have our first case of someone getting food poisoning or something because they didn't want to get their smahtwatch wet and so failed at handwashing?
<rick_h_> except they can get wet :P so no reason not to watch
<rick_h_> wash
<mrgoodcat> moto just needs to get their shit together and update the 360 with something that doesn't have 45nm transistors
<dzho> so, is the Apple Watch water resistant?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: unless you have a leather wristband
<mrgoodcat> dzho: i woudl assume so?
<rick_h_> nato, ss or bust
<cmaloney> If they're smart they'll let folks change out the wrist straps
<cmaloney> if they're Apple you'll have to use Apple straps
<mrgoodcat> you have to use moto straps on the 360
<mrgoodcat> its removeable but nonstandard
<cmaloney> http://www.apple.com/watch/apple-watch-sport/
<cmaloney> There's three different bodies, afaict.
<cmaloney> That's lame.
<cmaloney> Hm, actually I think I'm looking at that wrong
<cmaloney> it looks like they have different "removable" posts that use that same slide-out nonsense that my old pedometer watch had.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-10
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morniung
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Yay, my keyboard showed up again. :)
<cmaloney> So now I have my keyobard good as new.
<cmaloney> I think they replaced the switches on it.
<cmaloney> Feels pretty new.
<rick_h_> woot
<cmaloney> yeah
<cmaloney> Makes me happy. :)
<widox>  cmaloney your leopold broke?
<cmaloney> widox: It was giving me ghost keypresses.
<wolfger> Ooh... haunted keyboard.
<widox> fun
<widox> I get double presses sometimes - kind of annoying
<cmaloney> widox: Check and see if you still have warranty coverage
<rick_h_> yayayayayay http://r.bmark.us/u/cb2e24e3d9e209
<rick_h_> jcastro ran away and doesn't want to see it
<cmaloney> Yeah, people are crowing about it
<wolfger> That's awesome news
<trevlar> somebody just opened a pull request with this line: "cat /dev/null > newfile.txt"
<trevlar> would there be a reason to do that instead of just touch?
<wolfger> just to be cute?
<wolfger> I can't think of any reason
<trevlar> yeah before I said something I wanted to check
<wolfger> rewrite it as "ls /dev/null >> newfile.txt"? :-D
<cmaloney> echo -n > newfile.txt
<cmaloney> trevlar: Only reason I can think of is if touch is not installed on a machine
<cmaloney> which I'd consider a bug
<cmaloney> also: touch won't empty a file, it'll just change the timestamp
<cmaloney> whereas cat / echo will create new files
<cmaloney> bah, that's the reason right there.
<cmaloney> ^
<trevlar> cmaloney: ah yep
<cmaloney> I don't always have brain farts but when I do everyone gets to enjoy the smell
<cmaloney> or something like that.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Bookiebot is awol again?
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure he is
<mrgoodcat> i've been having networking issues
<mrgoodcat> hang on
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Enjoy The Pain by 16volt on American Porn Songs
<cmaloney> tx
<mrgoodcat> np
<jrwren> trevlar: if touch does not exist?
<trevlar> jrwren: it does. the line in question is in a provisioning script for an ubuntu 14.04 image for vagrant
<trevlar> I think cmaloney is right. to empty the file if it already exists
<jrwren> yes, he is. I had not caught up.
<wolfger> oh, silly me. I forgot how cat worked. Too long away from the CLI.
<wolfger> My suggested alternate would be a touch replacement though.
<wolfger> plus create the file if the file did not already exist
<mrgoodcat> it may seem like a small victory but i have to share it. i got my chromebook running arch with no issues at all that i can see
<mrgoodcat> personal victory
<mrgoodcat> had to compile 3.17-rc4 myself though since 3.16 doesn't support my touchpad
<brousch_> Arch? We care only about Ubuntu here.
<mrgoodcat> fine
<mrgoodcat> linux
<mrgoodcat> happy?
<mrgoodcat> GNU/Linux
<jrwren> that is a pretty new kernel.
<mrgoodcat> yep
<jrwren> I'm still running 3.11 and 14.04 only ships 3.13
<mrgoodcat> 3.17 is the first with support for the c720 hardware
<brousch_> chromebook already is Linux!
<jrwren> so is android, but its not a good linux.
<brousch_> Chromebook is more Linuxy
<rick_h_> how?!
<brousch_> You can get a shell
<mrgoodcat> chromebook is pretty good linux actually
<rick_h_> because it has a terminal hidden away?
 * rick_h_ is cranky and grumbly today watch out
<mrgoodcat> you can install ubuntu in a chroot on it
<brousch_> And install chroots. Oh wait, you can do that on Android too
<rick_h_> oh wtf you guys are crazy
<rick_h_> just because I can put linux on a calculator and run `ls` doesn't mean people with that calculator are 'running linux' or 'linux users'
<brousch_> rick_h_: Who peed in your coffee today?
<rick_h_> brousch_: I  don't know. It's just been peed in
<rick_h_> and I'm unhappy about it all :P
<brousch_> Hung over from Apple Day?
<rick_h_> who? no I didn't eat any apples today
<rick_h_> that whole company can go diaf and I don't care. They could release a flying self driving car and I'd still not care.
<brousch_> But ... CUPS!
<rick_h_> if I want to print I go to the printers
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: chromeos is a gentoo derivation
<mrgoodcat> i thought CUPS was maintained by apache now?
<cmaloney> If there's no compiling then it's not gentoo stylin'
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: that's nice, but so are fridges out there, and tvs, that doesn't make them linux users
<brousch_> OK, I'm actually having trouble coming up with another thing Apple does that a Linux user cares remotely about
<cmaloney> sue companies?
<mrgoodcat> I'm having trouble figuring out why chrome isn't linux
<brousch_> ChromeOS is Linux!
<cmaloney> chromeos is not a linux distribution
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: why not?
<rick_h_> chromeos is a tv
<rick_h_> and that tv is pointed at one channel, www.xxx.com carry on
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I can't install applications on ChromeOS, I can install applications into Chrome
<jrwren> or course it is linux, so is android, that does not make it good or usable.
<jrwren> an IBM san switch is linux.
<jrwren> Linux is everywhere.
<mrgoodcat> https://dyladan.me/#!blog/c720-compile.md
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/gvxG4J - MDwiki
<cmaloney> Like the Buddha
<brousch_> Ut oh, we pissed off jcastro
<mrgoodcat> what makes you think that?
<brousch_> He left, but came back
<mrgoodcat> ah. i have quits and such ignored
<brousch_> mrgoodcat: So the c720 touchpad is included in that newer kernel?
<mrgoodcat> yea
<brousch_> Shitty smartwatch app idea: Display ads on your wrist for money
<mrgoodcat> was contributed by the chrome team so it works like a charm
<brousch_> nice
<brousch_> Like a juju charm?
<mrgoodcat> not quite
<mrgoodcat> problem is now i'm using a custom compiled kernel i have to watch for security updates if i want them then i have to recompile
<cmaloney> But Linux is unbreakable
<mrgoodcat> oh yea i forgot
<mrgoodcat> forgive me if i still watch the security mailing list
<cmaloney> Hey, when people are out to get you paranoia is only good thinking.
<wolfger> Did somebody say Gentoo? :-D
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> yes gentoo was mentioned
<wolfger> Gentoo FTW!
<wolfger> compile all the source code!
<mrgoodcat> i had to compile the kernel this morning
<mrgoodcat> if i ever was going to use gentoo, that killed any chance of me ever actually doing it
<mrgoodcat> compile on my 2GB, 2 core chromebook
<mrgoodcat> celeron 2955U
<brousch_> I just looked. There are approx 250 fart apps in the Play store, but no app to make a sound to cover up an actual fart
<wolfger> Yeah... I used to love doing that stuff. Then one day I realized I had better things to do with my time than wait for a bunch of updates to compile on a near-daily basis.
<wolfger> brousch_: no sound will cover up a fart
<brousch_> a cough!
<brousch_> So I'm thinking about a smartwatch app that turns up your phone's volume and sets off your ring tone. You would use this to cover up the sound of a fart
<rick_h_> brousch_: it needs to be motion triggered.
<rick_h_> if you shake your arm around like a monkey it activates
<brousch_> Like trigger it by waving your hand back and forth like you are disbursing a bad odor?
<brousch_> dispersing
<brousch_> I don't think that's necessary. It will look like you are just checking your watch
<wolfger> Need a good mercury switch and have it triggered by lifting one butt cheek
<wolfger> of course, it would probably then go off every time you move at all
<brousch_> Which is more socially awkward? Letting a loud fart or your phone going off at full volume?
<wolfger> Well, once you establish the pattern that your phone rings loudly and the room immediately stinks....
<wolfger> It's lose-lose
<cmaloney> You'd need to have a colon sensor
<rick_h_> CHC tonight party people
<cmaloney> woo woo
<rick_h_> reminder reminder reminder
<brousch_> rick_h_: Was it cmaloney's colon comment that triggered your CHC reminder?
<rick_h_> brousch_: or just I can't wait for today to be over and to get there
<cmaloney> I'm not sure which scares me more: code that doesn't work, or code that seems to work the first time.
<cmaloney> https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/fa31be86e53d10
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Scin by I:Scintilla on The Approach
<akelling> Streaming music?
<cmaloney> akelling: Local collection
<akelling> o okay
<cmaloney> http://mp3tribute.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/YIO7gO - #MP3Tribute
<cmaloney> You can pick the album (and others) from this site.
<akelling> Thanks
<cmaloney> np
<greg-g> "All albums are released under a Creative Commons BY NC ND 3.0 license by their respective artists."
<greg-g> :/ "good enough" I guess
<cmaloney> good enough? :)
<cmaloney> I think that's flipping awesome. :)
<jrwren> CC0 or death.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> jrwren: Hope you enjoy the early part of the 20th century
<jrwren> i'm j/k of course.
<cmaloney> jesus, today must be international petiton / call in day.
<greg-g> what else?
<cmaloney> Citizens United, Internet Slowdown
<cmaloney> Tell Scott Walker he's a dick
<mrgoodcat> !sms gary lol n00b
<mrgoodcat> damn wrong channel
<wolfger> doh
<jrwren> it must be, since I'm volonteering at a phone bank tonight :)
<wolfger> vogonteering? Is that where you go around writing deadly bad poetry?
<jrwren> Maybe. It is definitely not where one learns to spell.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-11
<mrgoodcat> hows chc today?
<widox> mrgoodcat: rocking, where are you?
<cmaloney> party part
<cmaloney> party even
<rick_h_> widox: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EK3UHS8/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1YeDJM - Amazon.com: EasyAccÂ® 5000mAh 2.5A Dual Port Fast Charging Ultra-Slim Portable External Battery Charger Pack PowerBank built-in Micro-USB Cable and LED Flashlight for iPhone 5S 5C 4S (Apple adapters not included), Andorid Smartphone, Tablets, Bluetooth Speakers headset, Google Glass, Gopro and other devices - Matte Black: Cell Phones &
<bookiebot> Accessories
<rick_h_> woot!
<greg-g> you're up late
<rick_h_> yea, got hung up on new bookie db server
<rick_h_> bugged me
<rick_h_> hella fast now
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> and annoyed so can't sleep, wheeee
<rick_h_> so faster new front end server, faster new backend server, and new code with private bookmarks. Good bookie week
<greg-g> nice!
<greg-g> private bookmarks? /me goes to look at new shiny
<rick_h_> yea, you should have updated extensions
<rick_h_> GSoC work finally released
<rick_h_> sam did some good stuff there, a couple of bugs at release but nice work
<greg-g> is https://bmark.us/bmark/readable/3f3abdc9723bf2 public?
<rick_h_> yes?
<greg-g> yeah, just no name
<rick_h_> well I got widox's public bmark
<greg-g> it's my first private bookmark
<rick_h_> oh interesting.
<rick_h_> heh /me checks that out on the readable page
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> so the hash isn't tied to a user
<greg-g> exploratory testing, muther effer
<rick_h_> since we store the urls unique so kind of an interesting corner case. I wonder if it works for urls not public by someone else
 * rick_h_ is testing
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> go to bed
<greg-g> I'm going to ;)
<greg-g> g'nigth!
<rick_h_> night
<rick_h_> heh yea it's public :/
 * rick_h_ files bug and grumbles about missing stuff from GSoC students
<rick_h_> greg-g: ty, updated and locked down :)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<brousch_> So tired
<brousch_> Was up until 1:30AM working on an artprize thing at the makerspace
<wolfger> cool. What ya working on?
<brousch_> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Exposed-ArtPrize-Project-2014/591749520922241
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/RcWIbf - Exposed ArtPrize Project 2014 | Facebook
<brousch_> Mostly working on making wires and soldering LEDs for it
<brousch_> I have discovered that if I'm going to do an significant electronics at home I need an adjustable soldering iron and a heat gun (for desoldering)
<cmaloney> Any chance of posting that to Google+? :)
<brousch_> I don't think it has a page other than facebook
<brousch_> I guess the indigogo has some stuff https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/exposed-artprize-project-2014
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/p8WLuq - Exposed Artprize Project 2014 | Indiegogo
<cmaloney> brousch_: nice.
<wolfger> Nifty
<rick_h_> brousch_: heh, 2am here. Just couldn't sleep but bookie got a new db server so yay
<wolfger> \o/
<brousch_> Steroids again?
<wolfger> Who needs sleep when your pet project gets a new server?
<rick_h_> brousch_: no, I avoid those damn things at all costs
<brousch_> Hm, i just sucked down a 24oz caramel marvel from biggby in 2 hours. Not decaf. This could get ugly
<rick_h_> brousch_: hah, we're mirroring. Large vanilla soy latte here
<rick_h_> need something to keep going until nap time.../me looks for nap time on the calendar
<rick_h_> 3pm here I come!
<brousch_> I'm scr00d. My wife has knitting club, so I'm booked until probably 8:30pm
<rick_h_> movie day kids!
<rick_h_> marathon, damn netflix needs an auto play queue
<brousch_> Work, take kid to makerspace while I help, go home, use cattle prod to get him to do homework and take a shower, then finally bed time
<brousch_> heh "Whispersync for Voice: Now that you own the Kindle book, you can add the professional narration for $4.49 to switch between reading and listening without losing your place. Lock In (Narrated by Wil Wheaton) by John Scalzi"
<brousch_> Wil wheaton is a professional narrator now?
<rick_h_> yea, he's done a couple of books I've 'read'
<cmaloney> rick_h_: That's awesome. :)
<wolfger> He is very good at it.
<cmaloney> (was re new DB server)
<rick_h_> ugh, I'd pass on mr wheaton
<rick_h_> and the books he's done aren't good books really
<rick_h_> which hasn't helped
<wolfger> Although admittedly the only WW audiobook I've listened to was WW reading a WW book, so obviously he'll do better with that.
<wolfger> He does lots of voice work, though. Audiobooks, video games, cartoons...
<jrwren> you guys talking about EOD and the day just started. SOOO much fun between now and kids home from school time.
<rick_h_> jrwren: :)
<wolfger> Whee. Fun.
<rick_h_> this is definitely interesting http://r.bmark.us/u/ba76fd94a61f9f
<rick_h_> for the chrome os fans mrgoodcat brousch_ ^
<brousch_> I saw that. they had a voting thing at one time to tell which app to port next
<cmaloney>  Kinda curious how they're going about ths
<cmaloney> unless the "porting" is ensuring the apps don't break whatever they're using for emulation
<brousch_> I think so
<brousch_> Also gives them a chance to go slowly and work with experienced Android devs to work out bugs
<jrwren> wait... ART isn't Dalvik?..  http://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/art.html  yes it is. that article doesn't know waht its talking about.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Qv1da8 - Introducing ART | Android Developers
<brousch_> Instead of getting 1 million crappy apps dumped in at once
<jrwren> and DUH, of course it isn't ART since art doesn't target x64 (AFAIK) and most chromebooks are x64
<jrwren> unless that is what they mean by bringing them over. They mention nacl, they could be porting the apps to NACL and ART. Man that would be cool.
<mrgoodcat> "These first apps are the result of a project called the App Runtime for Chrome (Beta), which we....."
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: also, ART isn't dalvik
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yes it is :p
<mrgoodcat> lol
<jrwren> its part of the spec.
<jrwren> its not dalvik bytecode.
<mrgoodcat> bah
<jrwren> http://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/index.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/JUF3U9 - Dalvik Technical Information | Android Developers
<jrwren> its UNDER dalvik on that page.
<jrwren> and yet "- ART - is being introduced experimentally that will eventually replace Dalvik."
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-12
<cmaloney> Finding Herbie Hancock albums at B&N = A+
<cmaloney> http://www.amazon.com/The-Warner-Bros-Years-1969-1972/dp/B00KCDTX6M
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/g4y1hI - Amazon.com: The Warner Bros. Years (1969-1972): Music
<wolfger> Good morning, and Happy Friday!
<wolfger> Every day I walk through the front door here at Ford, I smile. Because right there as I walk in the building is "Cougar Room". Then I remember Cougar is a Ford brand, and the disappointment sets in. :-D
<cmaloney> hah
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch_> wolfger: Aren't you a little old for cougars anyways? Are you attracting 70 year old cougars?
<wolfger> brousch_: bah. Stop trying to be logical. Let me have my fantasy that I'm still young and desirable.
<brousch_> Sorry to crush your dreams :(
<cmaloney> hah
<cmaloney> I have no such dreams. :)
<cmaloney> Also:
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Wiggle Waggle by Herbie Hancock on Fat Albert Rotunda
<wolfger> .np wolfger
<bookiebot> wolfger's last track - Symphony No. 1 in D major, "Titan": II. Kraftig bewegt, doch nicht zu schnell by Michael Halasz on I Love the 80s, Vol. 1 (1880s) [29 Dec 2010, 23:04]
<wolfger> I don't think so.....
<brousch_> .np brousch
<bookiebot> brousch's last track - Different Wings by Pitrelli on The Lost Christmas Eve [24 Dec 2011, 18:33]
<brousch_> I have no idea what that is
<wolfger> the album name is relevant to the date, though. :-D
<brousch_> Ah, apparently he is a guitarist for TSO
<cmaloney> Yeah, Al Pitrelli
<cmaloney> Was the guitarist for Megadeth for a while.
<cmaloney> until he realized playing Christmas-tinged  metal music was more lucrative.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhohpo
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Ostinato (Suite for Angela) by Herbie Hancock on Mwandishi
<wolfger> wolfger's current track - Blue Monday Hangover by Albert Collins on Blues'n Booze
<jrwren> I've been writing too many commit messages. I was targetting 60columns instead of 80
<rick_h_> hello from more powerful irc server, now just need to move my email setup ugh
<rick_h_> evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-13
<greg-g> yo yo
 * greg-g is riding the bus home
<rick_h_> greg-g: party
<greg-g> I'm thinking of going to the new pub/music venue tonight if the show looks good, my last Friday as a bachelor
<cmaloney> greg-g: I thought you were already... ah, right.
<cmaloney> "Bachelor"
<rick_h_> party
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> anmorn
<rick_h_> bah
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch_> What I was doing until 4AM https://plus.google.com/102663141609195877664/posts/BrpqJ19UZvi
<brousch_> cmaloney: Happy birthday! Are you 50?
<rick_h_> brousch_: what inspired the project?
<brousch_> I don't know. I'm just a set of hands
<rick_h_> ah cool
<rick_h_> everyone change their freenode password yet?
<brousch_> wat?
<rick_h_> see freenode window for notice on potential compromise and suggestion to change password
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/ag_dubs/status/510799881058144256/photo/1
<brousch_> geekers
<cmaloney> brousch_: Thank you. no.
<mrgoodcat> hey i think i'm gonna make it to CHC this week
<mrgoodcat> :D
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-09-14
<gamerchick02> nice, mrgoodcat!
<mrgoodcat> i know
<mrgoodcat> finally :)
<mrgoodcat> i've been slacking
<gamerchick02> i have been too, but last week i worked till 6 on Wednesday
<snap-l> mrgoodcat: That's awesome. :)
<snap-l> .np squeekyhoho
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsFZfv70O8Y
<snap-l> I picked this album up on a lark at UHF and it's captivating
<snap-l> It's an interpretation of Holst's "The Planets" by an electronic musician
<snap-l> I have never taken drugs before but I have a feeling this is the closest thing.
<snap-l> Also: Never read the comments/
<greg-g> cmaloney: what have you just put in my ears?
<mrgoodcat> lol a friend just recommended breadability to me
<mrgoodcat> i was like lol dude you don't even know
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: lol that's awesome
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> greg-g: Hopefully something awesome. :)
<gamerchick02> happy Sunday
<greg-g> cmaloney: it was a good way to end the night
<greg-g> :)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: is there any way to get breadability to output valid html?
<mrgoodcat> as in, a full page instead of a snippet
<cmaloney> greg-g: Very cool. :)
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: yes, there's a flag sec
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: --fragment=false?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: https://github.com/bookieio/breadability/blob/master/breadability/scripts/client.py#L74
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rZ8Kms - breadability/client.py at master Â· bookieio/breadability Â· GitHub
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: what are you up to?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-07
<cmaloney> Whoops
<cmaloney> I missed the meeting. :l
<cmaloney> WEll, I see nobody else must've noticed. ;)
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/919/detail/
<cmaloney> Anyone here for the meeting?
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I figured.
<_stink_> i was here.  i called it to order, and voted to invade Canada.
<cmaloney> Of course
<DrDaemonEye> _stink_: We have to invade Canada?  I thought they were already a part of Michigan.
<_stink_> they won't send along the polar bears that they ride into battle so we can invade Ohio.  so first step is to take them.
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> for just a little bit more
<rick_h_> cmaloney: what's MUG tomorrow? Looks like I might get to escape :)
<cmaloney> Install-fest and possibly digital archiving
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-08
<brousch> cmaloney: I found Morbid Angel Radio just in time for the OMC hiatus
<cmaloney> Whassat?
<cmaloney> brousch: Also it's not permanent. I have no intention of OMC's hiatus extending past us figuring out dad-in-law care finances.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> morning :)
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How goes?
<_stink_> forward
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> I think it's going forward but not sure.
<wolfger> just kind of drifting side-to-side
<cmaloney> Michigan UNIX Users Meeting starting in a few. Head to #mugorg for more details
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-09
<cmaloney> God, I wish Outlook would find a convenient fire and die in it
<cmaloney> Customer is noticing issues with text email in outlook (and outlook alone as every other client seems to be fine)
<cmaloney> Attaches .msg file. I can't open .msg file because reasons (even with Outlook 2010)
<cmaloney> The only way to save the message source requires a registry hack as Outlook splits things apart because reasons
<mrgoodcat> sry bout your lots
<cmaloney> .msg files are impossible to read with a text editor because MS has a binary fetish
<mrgoodcat> likely they think they're protecting users from themselves
<mrgoodcat> outlook has pretty much just become a billboard on my desk though. anything important comes through the slack channel these days
<cmaloney> Oh I'm sure it makes sense from a "Outlook is all you need" perspective
<mrgoodcat> s/outlook/email/
<mrgoodcat> i can't wait for email to die in favor of simpler realtime messaging
<cmaloney> It's not email's fault Outlook is a piece of shit
<cmaloney> I like my async communcation thank you very much. :)
<cmaloney> I don't need a real-time funnel strapped to me
<cmaloney> Oh, and some Java-based .msg reader from Sourceforge said the following: derp!
<brousch> cmaloney: http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/04/18/a-free-viewer-for-microsoft-outlook-msg-files/
<cmaloney> That's what went "derp" on this file.
<brousch> darn
<cmaloney> thanks, though.
<brousch> I think that's my most popular blog post of all time
<cmaloney> I'd believe it
<cmaloney> And my blood pressure is now rising explaining why .msg files are essentially useless to me.
<cmaloney> Need more fires
<brousch> Most .msg files are just the same content as the part you can read
<brousch> At least the part you can read in Gmail
<mrgoodcat> try it in a hex editor
<_stink_> $ strings whatever.msg
<_stink_> ?
<_stink_> just throwing that out there
<jrwren> find a unicode version of strings.
<jrwren> maybe its a virus
<jrwren> its infected outlook and its msg writer
<jrwren> and so any "save" functionality is actually writing malware in case you double click it.
<cmaloney> Maybe Outlook is just a steaming pile of shit that should be nuked from orbit, just to make sure.
<cmaloney> and in trying to help out it instead does exactly what I don't want it to do
<cmaloney> because
<cmaloney> Microsoft has their reasons
<cmaloney> Which invariably mean I get to have all the headaches
<cmaloney> Dippy outlook is reformatting the messages that we're sending as plain text
<cmaloney> trying to remove extra line feeds
<cmaloney> because reasons
<mrgoodcat> i wish plain text emails were the only thing that worked
<mrgoodcat> get rid of the web browser in my email thank you
<mrgoodcat> I don't even need <a> tags. Just making url's clicky would be good enough for me
<cmaloney> ^^
<cmaloney> https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/comments/3k8n5p/you_know_an_ad_is_a_scam_when_the_picture_doesnt/
<jrwren> i wish email didn't exist.
<cmaloney> We'd have to invent it
<cmaloney> How's the afternoon?
<jrwren> apple zomg.
<jrwren> ipad pro
<jrwren> zomg
<jrwren> how is your afternoon ?
<jrwren> oh, and Lessig announced his candidacy. If I didn't have this infection, I'd be having an awesome day.
<cmaloney> Refreshingly iPad free. :)
<cmaloney> Though I am glad to see we're moving back to 13" laptops. ;)
<jrwren> cmaloney: :)
<brousch> http://mashable.com/2015/03/08/lenovo-yoga-tablet-2-pro-review/
<jrwren> brousch: is it an ipad?
<jrwren> I want the one with the most GeeBees
<brousch> No, it's is better
<brousch> Android + bigger = better
<jrwren> false
<jrwren> android is like NaN. any comparison or operation is false.
<cmaloney> I think that's more true of Apple
<cmaloney> Android can compare with Windows
<cmaloney> Apple doesn't compare with anything else
<jrwren> hrm. good point.
<brousch> I often compare Apple to a pile of feces
<cmaloney> It's more of a religion or a feeling. It's a pile of intangibles
<jrwren> brousch: zomg me too!
<cmaloney> Road Apples?
<jrwren> hrm... i'll change topics.
<jrwren> anyone know for a source of road pears? I have enough apples, but would like some pears.
<cmaloney> Give me some more roughage.
<brousch> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COenroJWEAAjLoi.jpg
<cmaloney> Did they release a smart-cover keyboard?
<cmaloney> Because...
<jrwren> brousch: omg!
<cmaloney> Yep
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-10
<brousch> Ben's Horrible Hack of the Day https://gist.github.com/brousch/56925ad41056f204f74e
<cmaloney> brousch: It needs a YAML config
<cmaloney> s/YAML/XML/g
<brousch> I'm actually quite proud of it
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a lot of awful in there already
<cmaloney> +1
<brousch> but it works. Use your makefile on windows with no hassle!
<cmaloney> Definitely the worst thing I've seen today.
<_stink_> haha
<brousch> I made it official https://github.com/brousch/makebat
<_stink_> nice!
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> does it work with nmake? :)
<jrwren> bonus points for using bits as curl
<brousch> jrwren: I added an issue for checking for pre-existing makes
<jrwren> brousch: iirc nmake is different enough it probably wouldn't work at all with projects which need a bsd or gnu make
<brousch> ah
<brousch> I was thinking more about people with make installed system-wide already
<brousch> I should say, if they already have `make` available on their path. I'm not going further than that
<_stink_> ADD FEATURES!!
<brousch> SUGGEST FEATURES!!
 * _stink_ aggressively forks
<greg-g> I love aggressively spooning
<_stink_> that should be on a t-shirt
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> An old friend of mine has a "I would cuddle you so hard" t-shirt
<_stink_> hah
<greg-g> cuddle with you? whatever
<jrwren> sounds painful
<greg-g> only if you do it wrong
 * greg-g yanks mind out of gutter
<jrwren> like beekeeping?
<cmaloney> cuddling as a sport
<aleph_one> cuddling as a contact sport no less
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-11
<shakes808> Evening all
<rick_h_> party
<shakes808> How goes it?
<rick_h_> not bad
<rick_h_> replying to a work email I couldn't let sit over night or it'd drive me nuts :P
<shakes808> that is why when I clock out, I don't look at them any longer :)
<rick_h_> worldwide company makes that a pita
<rick_h_> but yea, good policy to live by
<shakes808> How's the fishing?
<rick_h_> good, haven't been able to get out lately. been out of town and such
<rick_h_> but taking the kayak to the campground this weekend, hopefully catch something
<shakes808> gotcha.  saw that pike you caught, pretty nice.
<shakes808> awesome!
<rick_h_> yea, was doing the wed night thing for a while and always caught at least a few
<rick_h_> nice time doing the kayak thing
<shakes808> haven't been able to get out much this year, maybe 4 times not including the one time I went Ice this year :(
<rick_h_> have to get out, soon it'll shut down
<shakes808> I have been wanting to pick one up, but nowhere to put it
<shakes808> I know
<shakes808> Had a newbie question for you.  Python unittest, trying to get the unittest file to read the base file to test the function.  I am probably doing it wrong, can you take a look at it?
<rick_h_> can try
<shakes808> http://codeshare.io/V2A6b
<rick_h_> never import *
<rick_h_> does it import Dice?
<shakes808> I had import GenericRoll from Dice
<shakes808> and it didn't like it
<rick_h_> if you import pdb;pdb.set_trace() in line 24 ?
<rick_h_> no, you have to import the class
<rick_h_> is the file really caps?
<rick_h_> Dice.py?
<shakes808> yes
<rick_h_> from Dice import Dice
<rick_h_> right, so you've got a class, you can't just test the function
<shakes808> still getting the same error
<shakes808> pasted in the IO
<shakes808> Still can't reach the class
<shakes808> should I prefix the function call with Dice.GenericRoll
<rick_h_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12332671/
<rick_h_> it's just hand written, might need some more love
<rick_h_> don't name things with Java/etc. classes are Cap, everything else is lower. functions are _ split, and yes, you need to create a class instance.
<shakes808> alright, let me try.  makes sense to create the object :|  told ya newb stuff
<rick_h_> all good
<shakes808> Getting closer
<shakes808> pasted my error again
<shakes808> has to do with the assertNotEqual
<shakes808> Doesn't look like it was able to get to my function?
<rick_h_> shakes808: you never return a value
<rick_h_> shakes808: so the value that comes out of your function is "None"
<rick_h_> shakes808: try adding: return self.number
<shakes808> derp
<shakes808> yeah
<rick_h_> or use the class
<rick_h_> assertNotEqual(one.number, two.number
<shakes808> I refactored it and forgot that :|
<shakes808> Doesn't like the .number
<shakes808> sweet!
<shakes808> working now :)
<shakes808> Thank you
<rick_h_> party
<shakes808> Trying to learn how to utilize unittest and then going to look at mock
<shakes808> rick_h_: do you have time for one more?
<rick_h_> hmm
<rick_h_> evening from addison oaks campground
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-12
<wolfger> o/
<wolfger> Play some disc golf while you're there?
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> morning...for a few min
<rick_h_> no disk golf, so far just playground time and relaxing.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-09-13
<tony-smlr> SMLR E158 Going live soon Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOb4ql-CHCw Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> Happy Programmer's Day.
<cmaloney> 0x100th day in the year
<cmaloney> http://programmers.life/2015/09/11/alert/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-12
<rick_h_> greg-g: what did you end up getting?
<greg-g> rick_h_: moto x pure :)
<brousch> This weekend's project http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1765738
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> howdy from CA
<cmaloney> wtf?
<cmaloney> STAY PUT
<cmaloney> Geeez
 * cmaloney gets the nails
<cmaloney> Sprints?
<rick_h_> hey, i was home for a while.
<rick_h_> yea, charmers summit
<cmaloney> 4 days doesn't count
<rick_h_> sprints are end of oct into nov
<cmaloney> ah
<rick_h_> yea 4 days here ao nice to not miss as much weekend time
<cmaloney> How is the summit?
<jrwren> so far, so good.
<cmaloney> et tu jrwren?
<jrwren> Oui
<jrwren> c'est bon.
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> yea, merlin has gone crazy with juju
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> crazy good.
<rick_h_> he's a juju user giving a talk on how they built tools on top of juju
<cmaloney> interesting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-13
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> reminder: mug meeting tonight
<cmaloney> promises to be a good one
<cmaloney> I hear one of the speakers is really good
<cmaloney> and the other one is me
<ColonelPanic001> why must software change
<ColonelPanic001> I've managed to screw up this damn laptop entirely and I can't even find f'ing xorg.conf
<ColonelPanic001> piece of shit
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: xorg.conf isn't used anymore
<ColonelPanic001> so I see
 * ColonelPanic001 goes and shuffles into a nursing home, telling tales of having to edit X11.conf while profusely swearing just to get the damned thing to boot the first time
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> you *can* use a xorg.conf still right? to override/set defaults you want?
<cmaloney> I think so but it depends on the driver on whether it'll honor it
<greg-g> gotcha
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: yeah from the little googlin' I did, that sounds correct
<greg-g> cutting a big sim down to the smaller size isn't advised, right?
<cmaloney> http://michiganradio.org/post/who-owns-image-m-22
<cmaloney> greg-g: I think it needs a steady hand. Most of the cards I've had were already pre-cut
<cmaloney> Unless you have access to a tool to make the cut I'd advise against it
<cmaloney> There's not a lot of clearance on either end
<cmaloney> Plus sim cards are pretty cheap (at least for Ting they're $5)
<cmaloney> and they sent my dad three cards: one for GSM, and two for Boost / Sprint
<greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, just the wait time to get it :/
<cmaloney> They're pretty quick, but yeah, not immediate
<greg-g> Current phone is dead so it kinda sucks
<Scary_Guy> Matt just said he's not coming, his friend was in a car accident and he's driving him home.  I'll be there still
<Scary_Guy> well... maybe.  I upgraded to Android N and it overwrote my TWRP.  Funny thing is that the recovery doesn't see the internal SD card and won't let me sideload zips through ADB (probably due to the fact that they're not signed)
<Scary_Guy> and fastboot says it updated the image and then I reboot and still have the retard stock recovery.  I'm about ready to sail this phone toward a brick wall (but will wipe and sell it instead because it's still a good phone)
<cmaloney> Is that the same thing as bricking your phone? :)
<Scary_Guy> technically yes
<cmaloney> (Hope Matt's friend is OK)
<Scary_Guy> me too, depending on the frind
<greg-g> zow
<jcastro> cmaloney: happy birthday!
<greg-g> happy birthday cmaloney !
<cmaloney> Thank you! :)
<brousch> Wat? cmaloney is 50 today?
<cmaloney> brousch: Nope, only 0x2D
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-15
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> or at least what's left of it.
<shakes808> morning, how was your bday?
<cmaloney> Pretty good overall
<cmaloney> Presented at MUG
<cmaloney> Got some Bday presents for myself. :)
<shakes808> I saw that.  Did you do a VIM talk because of the new update?
<shakes808> what did you buy?
<shakes808> I need to make it out for MUG night one of these days.
<cmaloney> No, I did a presentation on Getting Things Done under Linux
<cmaloney> Well, I went to UHF
<cmaloney> and communed with the music.
<shakes808> Gotcha.  Is MUG streamed on YouTube?  I see that you have a channel, but not sure if it is live
<cmaloney> We tried to stream it live but failed misearably in our attempt
<cmaloney> So we used meet.jit.si
<cmaloney> I think we can relay jit.si over to the MUG Youtube channel
<cmaloney> The talks were recorded
<cmaloney> (Hangouts on Air was so much nicer to set up)
<shakes808> why not keep that up then?
<cmaloney> Because Google doesn't like it when people use their stuff
<cmaloney> so they kill off the easy way and make you have to install stuff like encoders and what-not.
<cmaloney> HoA was shut on Sept. 12th
<shakes808> that sucks, seems like they do that a lot.  There was a program called Bump Desktop that they bought and then never did anything with it
<Scary_Guy> VIM is next month, apparently
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> along with Bash on Ubuntu on Windows 10
<Scary_Guy> yes but we have to listen to an M$ schill
<Scary_Guy> makes me flash back to the time the acting director of Michgian Atheists invited a Scientologist to speak.
<Scary_Guy> (and I promise not to give this guy as hard of a time as I gave that guy)
<Scary_Guy> (but oh hell that was fun!)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm hoping folks will be respectful
<cmaloney> Since it is interesting to see the inroads.
<cmaloney> even though I have no plans to use it.
<Scary_Guy> yeah me neither, but if they can pretend to like open source then we can pretend to like them
 * ColonelPanic001 isn't sure about being in the channel with scary people
<shakes808> Scary_Guy: when is your next show?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-16
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> how was the sprint?
<cmaloney> or summit or whatever it's called. :)
<rick_h_> yea, summit was good
<rick_h_> always fun to hang out at stuff like that and talk shop with smart folks
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's always a highlight
<shakes808> morning
<greg-g> just got back from 2 days in SF for our "product and technology 'onsite offsite'", twas good
<cmaloney> nice!
<Scary_Guy> shakes808 this Saturday
<Scary_Guy> fuck, parted again
<rick_h_> greg-g: woot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-17
<gamerchick02> plain old ubuntu back on my laptop, yay!
<cmaloney> afternoon
<gamerchick02> afternoon!
<jrwren> afternoon
<gamerchick02> big chores almost done
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-09-18
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-11
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h> Party
<mrgoodcat> you have to warn people before sending pictures of amputated legs
<brousch> That escalated quickly
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> I use meta-backspace to "delete word" in bash to quickly edit command lines. It uses special chars as word boundary. Does anyone know if there is a similar binding which will delete to whitespace? sometimes it would be nice to backspace through ALL of the paths instead of path part at a time.
<jrwren> so... AFTER I asked that, I figured I should read the bash man page, and bash/readline DOES have a command, but it is not bound by default.  YAY!
<_stink_> jrwren: does ctrl-w do what you want?
<jrwren> exactly what I wanted. Thanks _stink_
<_stink_> o/ i think cmaloney tipped me to that some time ago.
<rick_h> vim binding ftw
<rick_h> dt[char]
<jrwren> subtle diff to M-rubout  :)
<jrwren> rick_h: do you `set -o vi`?
<jrwren> what is the vim key for rubout anyway?  can you bs-t-[char] ?
<rick_h> jrwren: using zsh and a bunch of vimy stuff. jj works for esc like in my editor, have some stuff in my prompt for cmd mode vs edit mode
<jrwren> hahaha, I don't know vi commands well enough to do the equiv of what I just did with emacs. As a long time vim user, that is pretty sad.
<jrwren> I just tried teh equiv and when I did, I realized that in vim, I'd have navigated back adn then used forward remove instead of simply using back remove.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, was just trying myself and realized that's what I'd do
<rick_h> bbdt]
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h> or get inside some chars and di[ and all that jazz
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: bash prompt does a lot of emacs keybindings by default
<mrgoodcat> so delete word comes from that
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: yup, but the subtle difference between "word" adn "unix word" is waht I was asking and _stink_ delivered.
<jrwren> any emacs users know if that works in emacs too?
<jrwren> or is it a readline thing?
<mrgoodcat> it works in emacs iirc
<mrgoodcat> it comes from emacs
<mrgoodcat> nope
<mrgoodcat> ctrl+w "mark is set now"
<mrgoodcat> in completely unconfigured emacs
<mrgoodcat> must be readline
<jrwren> cool!
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> "mark is not set"
<mrgoodcat> is what it said
<mrgoodcat> i'm just slow
<mrgoodcat> ctrl+space sets the mark
<mrgoodcat> ctrl+w deletes from current location to the mark
<mrgoodcat> so ctrl+w in readline just behaves as if the mark is set at the start of the previous word
<mrgoodcat> i guess
<cmaloney> be careful with vim readline though: some prompts that use it start acting strange
<cmaloney> eg: the guile REPL doesn't do parens matching if I have vi mode set
<cmaloney> I think that's common on some GNU REPLs because there's a heavy emacs bias. ;)
<dickweed> i'm not sure i'll ever want to work without ANC headphones ever again
<dickweed> day 1 was a booming success
<jrwren> ANC?
<dickweed> active noice cancelling
<cmaloney> Just get larger speakers
<dickweed> my workplace has a program we call PDP that is basically a training program for onsite consultants. its a 6month program consisting of 95% recent college grads. so they get really loud sometimes
<cmaloney> https://www.sweetwater.com/c35--Yamaha--PA_Systems_and_Speakers
<dickweed> the best part of these is that i can listen to music at a reasonable volume and still drown them out
<dickweed> very quiet music is the only thing i can hear
<cmaloney> Here we go: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DSR112
<dickweed> much more relaxing than the volume i had to listen at before
<dickweed> haha
<cmaloney> yeah, I love my etymotics
<dickweed> > in order to defend myself from really loud noise, i'm going to make louder noise
<cmaloney> passive noise canceling is the way for me
<cmaloney> like adding ear plugs and headphones
<brousch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4iGo0dqsZE
<cmaloney> I can't handle noice cancling headphones
<dickweed> brousch: +1
<cmaloney> +1
<rick_h> cmaloney: oh man I live off them. so much better at starbucks/etc
<brousch> "reasonable volume" always takes me there
<cmaloney> rick_h: Absolutely
<cmaloney> That and I can listen to classical music or ambient music
<cmaloney> makes the music choices much wider
<dickweed> rick_h: you mean anc or isolating?
<cmaloney> instead of always having to jam death metal
<cmaloney> (which is not a bad thing, but I like variety)
<rick_h> dickweed: cancelling, basically my qc20's I can't live without
<dickweed> i got mdr-1000x
<dickweed> it was between these and qc35, but the 35s don't have a regular TRS
<dickweed> these do
<cmaloney> Tandy Radio Shack?
<cmaloney> Minimus 7 4 lyfe
<dickweed> 3.5mm
<mrgoodcat> woops
<mrgoodcat> changed nick in the wrong window and didn't notice
<cmaloney> heh
<notlikethesoup> lol
<notlikethesoup> way to go dickweed
<twitch> i mean
<twitch> way to go dickweed
<mrgoodcat1> yay netsplit
<mrgoodcat> notlikethesoup: i knew who you were before the switch
<mrgoodcat> for the record
<notlikethesoup> i know
<mrgoodcat> also i like notlikethesoup better
<notlikethesoup> me too :(
<notlikethesoup> it's just so long
<mrgoodcat> not<tab.
<mrgoodcat> s/\./>/
<cmaloney> Yay netsplit
<notlikethesoup> true
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-12
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> Party
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h> jrwren: that's so funny you mention the patent. I was just wondering why the mobile stuff was asking me to slide to 1-click buy
<jrwren> that has got to be annoying. I wonder if they made iphone do that.
<jrwren> still a tap in ios.
<rick_h> I'm trying to recall if it was the android app or the mobile web view that had it
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/c/MugOrgPage/live
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-13
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning
<jrwren> How are you today?
<cmaloney> ok, but my car decided our plans for us
<cmaloney> so get to take it in tomorrow
<cmaloney> (yay)
<cmaloney> we were going to go to Ann Arbor to see Kip Thorne but JoDee doesn't trust our cars
<cmaloney> so instead we are going to the zoo
<cmaloney> (plan as it stands)
<cmaloney> you?
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> I can imagine a Lyft ride from there to AA would be $%$$$   what about Zipcar/Maven?
<jrwren> I'm doing well enough.
<jrwren> Busy at work. Trying to get enough exercise to stay healthy. Trying to find time between those things to read and relax enough. Its life.
<cmaloney> jrwren: no worries. just would have been nice to see one of JoDee's heroes
<cmaloney> yeah, i can jnderstand that
<rick_h> jrwren: heh it's hard!
<rick_h> cmaloney: :( on the cars
<jrwren> rick_h: i honestly don't know how people do it.
<rick_h> jrwren: with ya, I've been saying I was going to go downstairs once I hit the lul in the day all week so far
<rick_h> and by the time I get done with work, cleaning, dinner, cleaning more, responsible adult things 1,2,3...wtf it's bed time
<rick_h> rough this week with the wife's birthday today so much of the adult things was birthday cards/cake/wrapping/etc
<rick_h> but seems like always something
<jrwren> It IS always something.
 * rick_h is crabby due to knee recovery so grains of salt and all that
<cmaloney> rick_h: No worries. Thanks
<rick_h> cmaloney: zoo is always a good place to go though
<rick_h> cmaloney: how did MUG go?
<jrwren> Especially Detroit Zoo. So nice.
<cmaloney> Pretty good
<cmaloney> Had a good Android talk at the beginning
<cmaloney> Android Things
<rick_h> The wife loves the one we went to at PyOhio. She still raves about it.
<cmaloney> Then I riffed on virtualenv
<jrwren> o_O riffed?
<cmaloney> Yeah, I am trying to get a presentation series called "Pain Points"
<jrwren> ah. nice.
<jrwren> virtualenv used to be a pain point. Then i figured out how it all fits together and now it's just another tool
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's one of the things with this
<cmaloney> I know a lot of folks who don't quite understand how it all fits together
<jrwren> sounds great.
<cmaloney> so I sat with my laptop and talked about virtualenv
<cmaloney> Yeah, it was kind of neat
<cmaloney> But it was also supposed to be a seed so others feel free to say "Hey, I know a little bit about  X and can talk about it"
<cmaloney> We have a second slot that can't support another large topic
<jrwren> right. Cool.
<cmaloney> so rather than do something like lightning talks or fishbowl I'd like to make it more productive
<cmaloney> rick_h: Happy Birthday Erica! :)
<rick_h> cmaloney: happy birthday to you :P
<rick_h> cmaloney: hah, I didn't realize it but got her new jogging headphones for her b-day with some other stuff
<rick_h> cmaloney: so I guess headphones is the official birthday gift of 2017
<jrwren> oh yeah, happy birthday cmaloney
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> rick_h: Those headphones are awesome. THank you.
<rick_h> cmaloney: well someone smart picked them out :P
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> what kind?
<cmaloney> Westone UM pro 10s
<cmaloney> Partly because I thought they were the only in-ears that were made in the USA
<jrwren> never heard of the brand.
<jrwren> how much does the breathing and heartbeat come through?
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/6472748
<cmaloney> Depends. I put on the silicone tips so it doesn't block out as much
<cmaloney> but there are foam tips you can use
<cmaloney> they give you about a dozen pairs of tips
<cmaloney> Or rather about a dozen tips in there
<cmaloney> (not pairs)
<cmaloney> but still, S M L XL and one other in Silicone and foam
 * cmaloney can do math
<cmaloney> The UMs are monitors so they have a flat response
<cmaloney> the 10s are single driver, but they have multiple driver ones as well
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-14
<jrwren> Good Morning all.
<dzho> howdy jrwren
<rick_h> morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> morning and all that
<cmaloney> spent part of the morning getting an engine speed sensor replaced
<cmaloney> yay
<_stink__> weee
<cmaloney> Yeah, loads of fun
<dzho> so, who's going down to OLF?
<cmaloney> not I
<notlikethesoup> NOR I
<notlikethesoup> sorry, caps
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmNRpZlsecY
<cmaloney> Conversation outside: Mother: "And that's why you got diahhrea" | Child: (somewhat happy child voice) "Dhahhrea!"
<_stink__> hah
<greg-g> it's a fun word!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-15
<cmaloney> morning
<Zimdale> Morning
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> are we having fun yet?
<jrwren> YES
<jrwren> I really want to write strtotime in go, but I'm afraid I'll hit a wall. What do you think I should do?
<cmaloney> shell out to C? ;)
<jrwren> I'd rather not.
<cmaloney> use Python like a gentleman
<notlikethesoup> python++
<notlikethesoup> erm... python += 1
<jrwren> so... I call strtotime from python, because python datetime parsing sucks.
<jrwren> that is a wrapped C function because python calls C nicely.
<cmaloney> Python Datetime parsing is pretty awesome
<cmaloney> using dateutils
<jrwren> terrible.
<jrwren> j/k. i never used it because I had strtotime.
<cmaloney> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-dateutil/2.6.1
<cmaloney> I'd be afraid to write anything related to time because it's a clusterfuck of exceptions
<cmaloney> and I'd wind up writing 0:60:01 or some shit
<greg-g> I just was handed a smoothie with frozen peaches in it, so yeah, having fun now
<jrwren> mmm... peaches.
<jrwren> well, my job is all about video playback which is time based, so yeah... time and a clusterfuck of exceptions is my job now.
<greg-g> yeah, the big flat of them we got from costco were good, but a few got soft spots before we could eat them, so, into the freezer they go!
<jrwren> in what state were they grown?
<greg-g> uhhhhh, dunno
<cmaloney> jrwren: Fun times
<greg-g> box is recycled (and pickup day was yesterday)
<jrwren> greg-g: i'll pretend they are MI peaches ;P
<greg-g> heh, thanks to ya'll then :P
<jrwren> I don't see a way I can parse '1 day ago 2 hours ago' in dateutils :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: datetime
<cmaloney> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6871016/adding-5-days-to-a-date-in-python
<cmaloney> and timedelta
<jrwren> cmaloney: no no no... I want it to work like gnu date cmd line.  e.g. `$ date -d â1 day ago 2 hours agoâ`
<jrwren> you can run that on linux (not on bsd/mac)
<jrwren> err, well, those quotes aren't right, but if you fix them you can run it :)
<cmaloney> try this:
<cmaloney> exec("date -d '1 day ago 2 hours ago'") :-P
<jrwren> bwahahahahahaha
<jrwren> i would, but I am concerned aboud speed of http responses and so I will not fork.
<cmaloney> https://golang.org/pkg/time/#Time.AddDate
<jrwren> that doesn't help.
<cmaloney> Use that to get the day one day before
<jrwren> lets say I pass '1 day ago' as a query parameter, how do I get a date.
<jrwren> right, you are saying to write my own parser. I'll take your advice.
<cmaloney> Yeah, sadly I don't know why Go doesn't have a parser like that
<jrwren> most langs don't.
<jrwren> most call C strtotime :)
<jrwren> although strangely ruby's fancy pants parser seems original
<cmaloney> MOst of the time I'm not parsing a string for my "two days ago" foo. That's a config parameter
<cmaloney> And if I need to get really fancy-pants I use https://docs.python.org/2/library/calendar.html
<cmaloney> for stuff like first day of the week
<jrwren> it must have just been teh nature of atlas apis when I was at arbor. the "days ago" queries were VERY useful.
<cmaloney> https://dateparser.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
<jrwren> oooh! that is the one.
<jrwren> omg, those deps though
<cmaloney> That's not too crazy. ;)
<cmaloney> pytz six
<cmaloney> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ruamel.yaml <- this one I don't quite understand
<cmaloney> nor the added regex lib
<cmaloney> ah, for reading config files
<jrwren> i don't see wehre it is supporting some of that syntax. https://github.com/scrapinghub/dateparser/blob/master/dateparser/parser.py
<jrwren> oh... https://github.com/scrapinghub/dateparser/blob/master/dateparser/freshness_date_parser.py  there it is.
<jrwren> well, i wasn't going to hand write the parser, but maybe I will.
<jrwren> i just ran longer than I've ever run in my life. It was also the first run in my 40s
<jrwren> Also the first run since my knee injury. I didn't even notice it, so I guess I laid off it too long
<_stink__> jrwren++
<rick_h> jrwren: <3 awesome
<brousch> jrwren: You want date time stuff in Go?
<jrwren> brousch: I want strtotime, yes.
<brousch> I remember our Gonads at work talking about doing that
<brousch> I assume that's what Go programmers are called
<jrwren> gophers.
<jrwren> brousch: have I told you how much I love go now? I like it a lot. :)
<_stink__> brousch++
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-16
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's awesome
<cmaloney> gonads seems like a nice term. :)
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<cmaloney> TIL: There's a vending machine company called Bodega that is selling vending machines that aren't vending machines and now people are pissed because they named it Bodega and people are worried they'll put corner markets out of business
<cmaloney> (I'm summarizing, poorly)
<cmaloney> apparently the way it works is it uses an app and charges your phone when you remove something from a shelf
<cmaloney> so eg: if you want a roll of toilet paper and a big thing of Scope mouthwash you somehow auth with it via the phone, pick up the items, and go on your merry way
<cmaloney> and apparently this is $$$$$$$ for investors
<jrwren> lmao
<Scary_Guy> anyone know why I can only get three of my four monitors to work in Debian when it worked fine in Mint?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-09-17
<cmaloney> Is anyone heading to OLF?
<dzho> cmaloney: maybe
<cmaloney> dzho: The Ohio loco is looking for folks to staff a booth
<cmaloney> so if you're interested in that LMK
<cmaloney> though it's doubtful that the booth will even come together as the Ohio loco is having a hard time finding folks.
 * dzho nods
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-09
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney> good am
<jrwren> good morning. what is new and awesome in the world of ubuntu today?
<cmaloney> ummm
<wolfger> Ubuntu still exists? :-D  Oh, right, that's the channel I'm in, isn't it?
<cmaloney> Funnily I think we no longer have any current Canonical Employees in the channel today
<cmaloney> I sent a note to Rick asking if everything was OK, but I suspect it went to spam (I don't have DKIM set up on my mailserver)
 * cmaloney remembers the glory days when we had a bunch
<cmaloney> ah well.
<jrwren> rick left canonical?
<jrwren> i must have forgotten!
<cmaloney> He's not in channel
<cmaloney> That's what I was referring to
<jrwren> oh! lol.
<jrwren> i guess now is a good time to talk about how terrible canonical is doing then eh?
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> I'm sure something will pan out at some point
<cmaloney> Maybe it'll be Wayland. :)
<cmaloney> Maybe it'll be Ubuntu Touch
<jrwren> i don't think it will be either of those things.
<cmaloney> I think those are already dead. :)
<jrwren> wayland is alive and kicking. Mir is dead
<cmaloney> Oh, right. Mir was the canonical also-ran
<jrwren> i'd have thought it is something on the server & enterprise side, but i'm never right about what succeeds in that space
<cmaloney> I'm sure snapd will be awesome when nobody is maintaining those packages anymore
<cmaloney> and when .deb packages are more recent than snapd packages
<cmaloney> Me either
<cmaloney> All I know is that it'll be more convoluted than anything I can come up with, but there will be good reasons for it
<jrwren> ugh, snapd... so bad.
<jrwren> if I were rich, I'd hire an intern college student to write a snap to deb re-packager, because that really wouldn't be that difficult.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Thing is it does solve a problem but it does so in a really silly way
<cmaloney> and unless someone actively supports those packages then they're going to be even worse bitrot than normal channels
<cmaloney> I had someone pop in from Canonical asking me about snapd for tootstream, and then made a package (likely for some GSoC project). That was two years ago. I haven't heard anything since.
<rick_h> yay it works
<wolfger> \o/
<rick_h> howdy party people
<cmaloney> rick_h: Welcome back!!! :)
<jrwren> welcome back rick.
<jrwren> we talked about you behind your back. don't check the logs. :p
<cmaloney> rHeh
<rick_h> meh, I can't even stay connected
<cmaloney> Now we have to be nice to Canonical again.
<rick_h> how am I going to check logs ;P
<cmaloney> ubuntulog2 might have some
<cmaloney> though I think that's been broken for a while now
<rick_h> lol "says the guy in ubuntu-us-mi channel"
<cmaloney> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/09/09/
<cmaloney> Hah, apparently it hasn't caught up. :)
<mrgoodcat> ubuntulog2 electric boogaloo
 * mrgoodcat spies googleusercontent.com
<mrgoodcat> rick_h confirmed google bot
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  ? I'm a bot now?
<mrgoodcat> rick_h (~ubuntu@177.33.185.35.bc.googleusercontent.com) has joined #ubuntu-us-mi
<mrgoodcat>                                        ^
<rick_h> oooh, fun
<jayis> I have applied to every job I am remotely qualified for at Canonical but they said no :(
<jrwren> jayis: :(
<rick_h> jayis:  sorry, any direct feedback on what folks find you could do better with?
<jayis> no lol, most of them were rejected at the resume review phase
<jayis> I even used Ubuntu font
<mrgoodcat> it is a nice font
<jayis> yeah, I actually use it normally anyways
<cmaloney> Should have used DejaVu instead. :)
<cmaloney> (I like the Ubuntu fonts)
<jayis> is there a IExpectFailure font
<mrgoodcat> always a bummer to get rejections with no feedback
<jrwren> use an expensive adobe font
<rick_h> hah, I can honestly say the font has never become part of hiring criteria but good default to run with
<cmaloney> I've applied a few times. I figured they just got a pool of talent that appealed more than my LaTeX font-resume. :)
<rick_h> jayis:  do you always supply a cover letter?
<jayis> rick_h: I do
<rick_h> jayis:  good stuff, always a good call to have a nice cover letter to get some eyeball attention
<jayis> i really did all the stuff you're supposed to do to show you care, contacted recruiter
<rick_h> jayis:  well if there's a particular app you've applied to I can always tap the person on the shoulder if I can tell who the hiring manager is
<rick_h> jayis:  but I can't see other folks applicants so can't look and provide any direct advice unfortunately
<cmaloney> recruiter?
<rick_h> jayis:  but I will say it's tough and only getting tougher to be honest. There's been a big push over the last two years at upping our hiring game
 * cmaloney mumbles something about hiring not being the issue. :)
<jayis> cool, I will hold off hammering their postings for a while and just try and get more experience
<jayis> cmaloney: yeah a lot of online resources said to contact the HR recruiter people to show you're really interested
<rick_h> jayis:  yea, basically folks are looking for a solid 5yr ish of high level experience, degree, and as much interesting visible demonstration of skill (OSS/etc) as possible
<jayis> jeez, yeah I am not there
<mrgoodcat> i graduated college less than a year ago so still got a way to go lol
<mrgoodcat> i'm transitioning onto an OSS team though in my company :)
<jayis> CS degree from Wayne State, 2 years software engineer at Ford, and not I am at a place in Livonia called WorkForce Software as a "Cloud Operations Engineer"
<mrgoodcat> going to be working on open telemetry
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: nice!
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  cool stuff
<mrgoodcat> i'm pretty excited. nothing is official yet but it is a really good opportunity for me
<rick_h> jayis:  yea that's a good start. Ford isn't really thought of as living on the newer edge of fun stuff so you'll really have to describe how that work is interesting and shows understanding modern distributed systems and the like
<jayis> rick_h: yeah it's a shitshow almost everywhere
<cmaloney> Yeah, Ford is one of the leading-edge of the trailing edge of technology in automotive
<jrwren> jayis: why do you want to work for Canonical?
<rick_h> have to be aware of those perceptions and be ready to battle them head on to get past it
<jayis> I left to escape the 401k salary trap that Ford is
<rick_h> sorry, /me feels like my help is "do a ton of work" but just sharing my insider insight a little bit
<jayis> jrwren: I have used Ubuntu for so long and just want a job I can learn and grow in but live in metro Detroit
<jrwren> jayis: there are lots of places in SEMI where you can do that. Why Canonical?
<cmaloney> It's OK to say " Because I think it's cool"
<jayis> I haven't gotten the impression there are many places in SEMI with those opportunities, honestly
<jrwren> oh wow, thankfully that has not been my experience.
<cmaloney> Ann Arbor has a boat-ton of tech companies
<rick_h> Yea, I felt like detroit has some up and coming stuff.
<jayis> right, that's an hour back and forth a day for me
<jrwren> yeah, I guess being in Ann Arbor for 15yrs has spoiled me.
<cmaloney> and a few that have filtered into the rest of the area
<jayis> I was actually in AA with Ford
<rick_h> though it's honestly a feeling off a couple of data points of folks I knew
<jrwren> jayis: the Ford office here in AA where they do all teh agile stuff? You left that? too much scrum kool-aide for ya?
<cmaloney> jayis: Do you attend any meetings in the area?
<cmaloney> God, Scrum can eat something unpleasant
<jrwren> Did I post here about our first A2 Go meeting tomorrow night?
<jayis> jrwren: yep, it's one of the hardest places to get to in Ford, and honestly they had more engineers than they needed
<jayis> cmaloney: nah, I have been to MUG more than a few times and stuff though
<cmaloney> MUG is a good start but you might want to explore some of the developer groups in the area
<cmaloney> at the very least you can make some connections with people who might know more about the types of places you're interested in
<jayis> I agree
<jayis> I can definitely improve in the Detroit networking department
<jayis> appreciate all your perspectives
<cmaloney> np. We've been there. I spent too long in automotive and while it was good for a formative career it really is its own beast
<cmaloney> kind of like working for the govt.
<rick_h> yea, I got my first big break by knowing someone at MUG
<rick_h> it's one of those things that the more you network/go to things the better position you're in for sure
<cmaloney> (comparing notes with folks who have worked in govt.)
<rick_h> ouch, it's not that bad is it?
<rick_h> at least we're more fun?
<cmaloney> automotive has its own downsides
<jrwren> maybe you are so good that you've outgrown the SEMI opportunities. I mean, I just assumed you still have a lot to "learn and grow" but maybe you are already 20X develop who knows all programming langauges adn tools and can cloud native everything and the only places you can grow and learn more is at a FAANG. Are you ready to move to a coast?
<cmaloney> usually trailing-end tech, lack of understanding of the issues, etc.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Way to tickle my imposter symdrome while I work on trying to get a damn Django template to behave. ;)
<jrwren> depends on the gvement work? does University work count as government work? :)
<rick_h> jrwren:  lol
<cmaloney> SChools are their own beasts
<cmaloney> I don't consider schools govt. work, even though they're extremly political
<rick_h> meh, they're kissing cousins for sure
<cmaloney> you can find some enlightened folks in schools
<cmaloney> Oh, definitely related
<cmaloney> You can suffer in academia as well as govt. or automotive.
<_stink_> haha, suffering is the theme.
<_stink_> i like it
<jrwren> life is suffering. The end of suffering is when you remove your greed, ignorance, attachements and desire.
<jrwren> ;)
<cmaloney> ommmmmm
<rick_h> hmmm, removing desire seems problematic
<cmaloney> Nah, you just figure out which desires are the good ones
<cmaloney> and then go with that
<jrwren> it is fundamental buddhism, half a billion people can't be wrong, can they? :)
<jrwren> https://www.meetup.com/A2Go-Golang-developer-meetup/events/263967933/
<jayis> jrwren: was the 20X dev thing a joke?
<jrwren> jayis: no? i mean, maybe? I don't know you at all, so for all I know your next learning and growing steps really might be beyond what most locales can provide.
<jrwren> depending on what it is that you want to learn and grow.
<jayis> usually when I have heard that term used it was sarcasm, got it
<cmaloney> Also because we're now looking for 20x developers because 10x are boring
<jayis> lol right
<jrwren> so the 20x thing was a joke, yes, but the point of the message, not at all. The point is: are you looking for something that exists at all?
<jayis> I just wanna work with OSS to solve interesting problems. In fact, I am sure it exists in SEMI. I should ammend my statement earlier about SEMI not having these jobs. I am sure we do. Just not necessarily on indeed.com and through my connections so far.
<cmaloney> That's why meeting other developers is so important
<cmaloney> those jobs don't tend to show up on job boards
<jayis> right
<cmaloney> also, check out stackoverflow jobs.
<jayis> I will
<cmaloney> There are some remote job opportunities on there.
<jrwren> so... nearly all of java and .net are open source now. By definition any java or .NET job with interesting problems would be one who "work with OSS to solve intresting problems" :)
<jayis> haha yeah it was vague, I know
<cmaloney> jrwren: You are evil.
<jrwren> am I?
<jrwren> Java and .NET solve a lot of very interesting problems... don't they?
<cmaloney> eeeevil
<jayis> I applied for a job once to use embedded Linux to monitor underground water movement
<jayis> the idea was to drill deep holes and place pipes to get water to drain faster in areas that don't have good drainage
<jrwren> interesting!
<jayis> that's my bar for interested OSS work lol
<jayis> interesting*
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/XOrgFoundation/status/1170772788992282624?s=20
<jrwren> so... 15yrs ago remote-X basically died :(
<jrwren> and nothing has worked as well for remote apps since. :(
<cmaloney> I still use remote X apps at home
<cmaloney> they mostly work, save for video games
<cmaloney> themes don't work, but that's to be expected
<jrwren> they got rid of LBX extension and nothing worked as well for me since.
<rick_h> jrwren:  what apps were you looking to run remote like that?
<jrwren> pretty much everything except the shell/desktop env whatever you call it.
<jrwren> so... browser, email, IM.
<jrwren> I guess not anything audio.
<jrwren> I used to do it all the time, then the upgrade, and nothing worked. It was the end of an era.
<rick_h> yea, just curious what the gap was any more. I know it's been a long time since I had a use for it and hadn't thought about it for a long time tbh
<cmaloney> Weird. I haven't had the same issues as recent as Ubuntu 18.04
<mrgoodcat> jayis: are you currently looking for a new job?
<mrgoodcat> or just applying places and seeing what comes up?
<jayis> mrgoodcat: I am
<jrwren> anyone know devicemapper and stripe cache size? apparently the old md-N means of setting it in /sys/block is gone. changed somewhere along the way from 2.6.X to 5.0.X
<jrwren> I just made a RAID5 volume and it is very slow at writes. All of the tuning guides I find are for old enough kernels that they are wrong.
<jrwren>  /proc/mdstat is empty in modern linux using dm instead of md.
<cmaloney> ouch
<cmaloney> Wonder why that changed
<jrwren> !!! I think this is what I need: https://www.reox.at/blog/posts/set_stripe_cache_on_lvm_raid/
<jrwren> not so much newer linux being my problem as using LVM instead of md.
<jrwren> much better. YAY!
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's what I was going to suggest, but deferred to you knowing better. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-10
<greg-g> https://blog.thousandeyes.com/analyzing-the-wikipedia-ddos-attack/
<greg-g> "As mentioned previously, DDoS attacks are a sad fact of life in doing digital business. If Wikipedia, one of the largest media sites in the world, can be impacted, your business can be too. Clearly, taking proactive remediation steps to be prepared makes an awful lot of sense if, unlike non-profit Wikimedia, your digital business is built for the purpose of generating revenue."
<greg-g> aka "Even those hippies need protection, and you should too if you try to make money!"
<greg-g> do they not realize that non-profits also raise money?
<greg-g> what's the new home wifi router I should get?
<cmaloney> greg-g: That sounds like a "I have this great idea about selling my business and need to work backwards to make Wikipedia git this somehow".
<cmaloney> s/business/services/
<jrwren> wifi is a lie. it never goes faster than 300mbit. N or AC it doesn't matter. CMV. :p
<jrwren> greg-g: wait a couple years for wifi6?
<mrgoodcat> i have an archer c7 and it works great. theres probably an update now
<greg-g> yeah, that's what I was looking at the c7
<greg-g> er, no, the A7
<jayis> is that the Amazon7
<jayis> it's the same thing as the C7 except with Alexa afaik
<mrgoodcat> do not want to talk to my router
<mrgoodcat> what would i even say to it
<jrwren> "block facebook"
<jrwren> "block google"
<jrwren> and it does the right things.
<jrwren> then... "block amazon" and you can never issue it an alexa command again.
<greg-g> hmm, maybe?
<greg-g> I guess I want the C7 then :)
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i tell my pihole to do those things
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: me too, and a nice bind with views, so that some client hosts aren't blocked and others are.
<jrwren> I wish pihole supported views.
<jayis> greg-g: hardware is identical afaik
<jayis> I don't care about what's on it because I run OpenWRT but every time I look for a cheap router for OpenWRT the options seem to decrease
<jayis> something something broadcom something
<jrwren> i wonder if openwrt would be more stable than the tplink crap that crashed on me ever couple of months.
<jrwren> it is so weird, the 2Ghz wifi still forwards packets, but the 5Ghz SSID disappears. It doesn't route, so I have no idea how much more would be down if it did.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-11
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> indeed
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  you're not still looking for a bike right?
<mrgoodcat> i'm not actively looking, but if something comes up i always have some mild interest
<mrgoodcat> trying not to spend too much since my wedding is in like 3 weeks
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  I got my wife a full squish for her birthday this week and I started ordering some parts to take back over her chameleon and figured I'd check
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea, understand that
<mrgoodcat> yea not looking for ht. trying to go full sus
<rick_h> cool
<rick_h> I'm going to put my fox 34 I took off my mojo3 on there
<rick_h> but then realized...doh now I need a boost front wheel
<rick_h> oh, and a 6 bolt brake rotor...doh
<rick_h> suddently the fork upgrade that didn't cost me anything has me ordering 250 in parts lol
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> yea it seems like when you step up to a certain quality range, you end up with a lot of incompatibilities with low end
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-13
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> party
<cmaloney> \m/
<_stink_> hi
<jrwren> what is new in ubuntu land?
<cmaloney> I turn another year older today.
<_stink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUxnBs86iUA&feature=youtu.be&t=16
<jrwren> happy birthday cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you!
<cmaloney> I <3 that Garfield animation
<cmaloney> show
<cmaloney> thing
<jrwren> you're one year older, one year wiser, Rock n' Roll star king dzar and a kaiser. A room full of friends, a mouth full of cake. Every present is for you and it feels pretty great.
<cmaloney> <3 Thank you.
<cmaloney> I'm just happy to be here.
<cmaloney> Eoan Ermine is 19.10
<cmaloney> https://ubuntu.social/@ubuntu/102785251361304988
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> does sabdfl still write his biannual naming blog post?
<cmaloney> probably.
<jrwren> hrm... https://www.markshuttleworth.com  not since cosmic
<jrwren> takes over as CEO... starts to care less :(
<cmaloney> Probably has someone else take over naming responsibilities
<jrwren> end of an era
<jrwren> what point is there in running a  multi million dollar linux company if you don't get to name stuff? :)
<_stink_> that's a lot of vowels
<jrwren> this is cool. http://zynthian.org
<cmaloney> That's cool, but the interface for ZynAdSubFX is anything but easy to use. :)
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q9gPyQ8IJE
<greg-g> jrwren arbor is emailing a bunch of us at work:)
<jrwren> greg-g: ha! I'm not surprised.
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> MSFT releasing CC-SA licensed icons. https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-icons
<cmaloney> CC-BY
<cmaloney> which is even more relaxed
<cmaloney> Though this is fun: The licenses for this project do not grant you rights to use any Microsoft names, logos, or trademarks. Microsoft's general trademark guidelines can be found at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=254653.
<cmaloney> so if they wanted to be pedantic I couldn't use their trademark for their attribution. ;)
<jrwren> oh right!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-14
<jrwren> so... i purged python 2.7 from my system... only to days later realize that dstat is a python 2.7 script. anyone have something they like for watching per physical device IO rates?
<cmaloney> not offhand, though I'm curious why the purge before Jan 2020?
<jrwren> why not? I'm not using it at all... cept for that dstat.
<cmaloney> Just seems a bit extreme. :)
<jrwren> lol, really?
<cmaloney> I mean, I understand the reasoning...
<jrwren> IT IS DEAD TO ME!!! :)
<wolfger> re-write dstat?
<jrwren> temping
<jrwren> with only what I want and not the other cruft
<cmaloney> or port it python3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-09-15
<jrwren> so cool. https://byuu.net/cartridges/boards
<_stink_> nice!
<jrwren> this is super weird https://github.com/lxc/lxd/issues/6205
